WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.650 2018. This is a special call meeting to hear module three. 00:00:06.650 --> 00:00:07.719 This meeting has been 00:00:07.719 --> 00:00:10.539 duly posted and we do have a quorum present and will call 00:00:10.539 --> 00:00:12.519 us to order at 405 00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:16.480 and our first order of business will be to receive a report 00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:17.940 , hold a discussion 00:00:17.940 --> 00:00:21.350 and provide direction to staff. So I'll turn it over to 00:00:21.350 --> 00:00:22.199 Richard to see who's 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:25.980 going to present for us. I'll just be brief. I'll introduce 00:00:25.980 --> 00:00:27.079 Tark. I think most 00:00:27.079 --> 00:00:31.120 of you know who he is. He's here to present module three 00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:32.000 which is the last 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:35.119 of the modules. After tonight we will no longer be 00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:36.880 referring to them as 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:39.799 modules but rather than still all with his thunder I'll go 00:00:39.799 --> 00:00:40.840 ahead and turn over 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:49.039 to him. Thanks for the introduction. Good to see you all 00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:50.719 again. Chairman, members of 00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:54.979 the Commission and some of you will see this again. Sorry 00:00:54.979 --> 00:00:56.880 Larry. But great to be 00:00:56.880 --> 00:00:59.909 back here. This is an exciting time in the project when we 00:00:59.909 --> 00:01:01.200 've actually drafted 00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:04.019 all three parts of the code at this point at least one time 00:01:04.019 --> 00:01:05.120 . Now we're in the 00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:09.109 refinement process and that should be as exciting for you 00:01:09.109 --> 00:01:11.079 as it is for us. We can 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:13.700 see the finish line at the end. Now it's time to really 00:01:13.700 --> 00:01:15.120 focus on the details of 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:19.359 what's in the draft. So we're not going to spend any time. 00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:20.719 You notice our first 00:01:20.719 --> 00:01:23.670 slide is content-based. We're not going to describe our 00:01:23.670 --> 00:01:25.120 firm. We're not going to 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:27.700 describe how we got here, why we got here, what the 00:01:27.700 --> 00:01:29.760 schedule is quite yet. We're 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:32.310 just going to jump right into the standards for this third 00:01:32.310 --> 00:01:33.120 and final piece 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:37.200 development standards. Remember back to the first piece was 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:38.280 all about zoning 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:41.319 districts and land uses. The second piece when we were here 00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:42.640 three weeks ago was 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:46.349 about administration and procedures, how you get a project 00:01:46.349 --> 00:01:47.840 approved. This final 00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:51.579 piece is all about the quality. We heard a lot about 00:01:51.579 --> 00:01:53.959 raising the bar for quality 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:58.189 in Denton and I mentioned in a couple of meetings earlier 00:01:58.189 --> 00:01:59.840 today that you already 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:03.519 have a lot of really good development in Denton. So it wasn 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:04.560 't a matter of saying 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:07.230 everything you have is bad let's make it better. It's 00:02:07.230 --> 00:02:08.719 capturing the good pieces in 00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:13.689 Denton and codifying them so that that sets the new minimum 00:02:13.689 --> 00:02:15.680 bar. This is sub 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:18.500 chapter 6, table of contents that you're looking at here at 00:02:18.500 --> 00:02:19.159 the development 00:02:19.159 --> 00:02:22.789 standards. There's a lot of material in here, too much to 00:02:22.789 --> 00:02:24.120 cover in one meeting 00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:26.849 with the Planning Commission. So what we're going to do is 00:02:26.849 --> 00:02:27.639 focus in on some of 00:02:27.639 --> 00:02:30.539 the things that we think will be most interesting, most 00:02:30.539 --> 00:02:31.960 relevant, will generate 00:02:31.960 --> 00:02:35.310 the most discussion with you all and then certainly can 00:02:35.310 --> 00:02:37.000 follow up either with 00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:41.680 staff in our absence or through public comments, submitting 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:41.840 your 00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:46.139 comments to staff or amongst each other. Today we're going 00:02:46.139 --> 00:02:47.080 to talk about 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:51.039 landscaping, we'll talk about parking and loading, we'll 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:52.120 talk about site and 00:02:52.120 --> 00:02:55.419 building design, we'll briefly mention exterior lighting 00:02:55.419 --> 00:02:56.439 and then the final 00:02:56.439 --> 00:03:01.479 part of this sub chapter or pardon me module 3 is subdiv 00:03:01.479 --> 00:03:02.879 ision and we've got 00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:05.780 one change there too that we'd like to raise with you as 00:03:05.780 --> 00:03:07.400 well. Beyond quality 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:11.180 standards how we divide lots into additional lots. So 00:03:11.180 --> 00:03:12.960 jumping right into 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:18.159 the details, just a reminder of the goals here for 00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:19.479 development quality 00:03:19.479 --> 00:03:22.949 standards. Avoid a one-size-fits-all approach. Right now a 00:03:22.949 --> 00:03:23.599 lot of your 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:27.680 standards say if you're in Denton thou shall apply to you. 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:28.400 Well that's not 00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:31.360 necessarily the case. Zoning districts are different, they 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:32.520 have different context. 00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:35.900 The square is certainly much different in terms of 00:03:35.900 --> 00:03:37.879 regulating development there 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:43.560 than it is out by 35 or 288 in the loop. So we need to take 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:44.479 those individual 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:48.000 contexts and apply standards that are tailored uniquely. 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:49.479 Increased flexibility. 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:52.650 It's hard to get projects approved in Denton. Now Scott the 00:03:52.650 --> 00:03:53.439 new planning 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:56.990 director has made a lot of cultural changes internally that 00:03:56.990 --> 00:03:57.919 have made things 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:01.400 smoother. You will continue to see those moving forward. 00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:03.879 The DDC can actually be 00:04:03.879 --> 00:04:07.680 updated to allow for more flexibility. Not at the expense 00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:09.639 of neighborhoods which 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:13.270 are important to Denton. Don't chip away at that fabric but 00:04:13.270 --> 00:04:14.080 allow more 00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:17.360 flexibility. Allow development to be creative and give you 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:18.360 projects that you 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:23.040 need and want. Finally is just to coordinate this project 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:24.120 which is a big 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:26.990 undertaking but it's not everything. You've got engineering 00:04:26.990 --> 00:04:27.759 standards, you 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:30.310 have wastewater standards, you have electric standards. A 00:04:30.310 --> 00:04:31.120 lot of things that 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:34.939 live outside of the code that have been updated in the last 00:04:34.939 --> 00:04:36.279 couple of years and 00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:39.310 we want to make sure that we're cross-referencing those but 00:04:39.310 --> 00:04:40.120 certainly not 00:04:40.120 --> 00:04:44.079 being inconsistent with them. So that was one of the goals 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:48.399 of the projects. Diving 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:51.220 right into the first topic. Gonna start with landscaping, 00:04:51.220 --> 00:04:52.600 screening, buffering and 00:04:52.600 --> 00:04:56.079 fences. How good does it have to be? How much do we need? 00:04:56.079 --> 00:04:57.120 And just showing some 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:01.410 images to get your your minds going. The juice is flowing 00:05:01.410 --> 00:05:03.120 on why landscaping is 00:05:03.120 --> 00:05:06.040 important. We talked about buffers in the landscaping 00:05:06.040 --> 00:05:07.639 standards. How we address 00:05:07.639 --> 00:05:11.899 incompatible land uses. If I'm residential next to non- 00:05:11.899 --> 00:05:12.639 residential, 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:16.750 there's an incompatibility there that's not impossible and 00:05:16.750 --> 00:05:18.079 that should be 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:21.839 allowed but with certain parameters and buffers are one way 00:05:21.839 --> 00:05:23.759 to do that. How we 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:26.980 think about loading areas, screening areas, making sure 00:05:26.980 --> 00:05:28.319 that the trash refuse 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:32.300 is enclosed so that not everybody has to look at it and 00:05:32.300 --> 00:05:34.040 driving around the city 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:36.779 you see a lot of dumpsters just out there in the open. We 00:05:36.779 --> 00:05:37.959 can prevent that in 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:42.050 the future. And then what happens with a complete and total 00:05:42.050 --> 00:05:43.740 lack of landscaping? 00:05:43.740 --> 00:05:47.500 You end up with a non-desirable result. Not a friendly 00:05:47.500 --> 00:05:49.839 place to walk. Not much 00:05:49.839 --> 00:05:53.800 better to even drive in that scenario. So how do we beaut 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:55.240 ify things while also 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:59.209 providing good landscaping? We'll jump right into the 00:05:59.209 --> 00:06:00.519 summary of changes and 00:06:00.519 --> 00:06:03.009 this is how each of the topics is going to work. We'll get 00:06:03.009 --> 00:06:04.040 your thoughts going. 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:09.009 We'll share some of the summary of changes, the big changes 00:06:09.009 --> 00:06:10.560 , and then take 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:13.829 any questions that you have on that topic. So well I do 00:06:13.829 --> 00:06:15.800 want to mention 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:19.279 though we need to get through all of the topics. So we'll 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:20.759 take a few questions on 00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:23.310 each topic but at some point I'm gonna kick the 00:06:23.310 --> 00:06:25.040 conversation to the next and 00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:28.449 then at the end for the remaining time that we have with 00:06:28.449 --> 00:06:30.279 you we can revisit 00:06:30.279 --> 00:06:35.740 each of these individual topics. Landscaping. Alternative 00:06:35.740 --> 00:06:36.560 landscaping plan 00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:40.250 option. We say this right up front. We know that no matter 00:06:40.250 --> 00:06:41.519 how good we draft a 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:44.980 code and we've drafted a lot of codes somebody's gonna come 00:06:44.980 --> 00:06:45.720 to you with a 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:48.300 project that is gonna be unique. It's going to have a 00:06:48.300 --> 00:06:49.399 certain set of site 00:06:49.399 --> 00:06:51.980 conditions that are different than other properties in Dent 00:06:51.980 --> 00:06:53.720 on. So how do we take 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:56.269 care of that? Well you don't want to require a public 00:06:56.269 --> 00:06:57.040 hearing where 00:06:57.040 --> 00:06:59.439 everything gets hashed out and neighborhoods have to get 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:00.600 involved. This 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:04.160 is an opportunity to talk to the director and to say look I 00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:05.160 've got unique 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:08.839 conditions here. I can't meet the black and white letter of 00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:09.600 the landscaping 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:12.629 standard. Here's what I can do that's an equal benefit to 00:07:12.629 --> 00:07:14.079 the city that still 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:16.800 meets the intent of the code but gives us a little bit of 00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:17.879 wiggle room because 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:21.879 I've got utilities where you want me to plant trees. I can 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:23.360 't do that. They won't 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:27.759 survive. So this is a new procedure. It's a new option. You 00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:28.759 'll see a lot of 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:31.829 flexible alternatives throughout the development standards 00:07:31.829 --> 00:07:32.279 that say 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:35.750 alternatives may be allowed where the director approves 00:07:35.750 --> 00:07:37.439 them or shall comply 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:41.399 to the maximum extent practicable. That's less than 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:43.759 feasible. It's saying this just 00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:47.160 doesn't make good common sense to require you to do that on 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:47.839 this particular 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:52.529 property. Another important change to landscaping is how 00:07:52.529 --> 00:07:53.720 the buffers work. 00:07:53.720 --> 00:07:57.970 Right now you do require buffers between incompatible uses 00:07:57.970 --> 00:07:59.600 but it's very rigid in 00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:03.399 the term in the the types of buffers that you can provide. 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:04.600 Instead we have 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:09.000 proposed an optional point system that allow it you have to 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:10.199 reach a certain 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:14.839 point total for a buffer. I'll use the earlier example 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:15.839 single-family 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:19.410 residential. If I want to develop industrial next to an 00:08:19.410 --> 00:08:20.040 existing 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:23.879 single-family residential neighborhood I need to earn 50 00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:25.480 points in a buffer and 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:30.449 then there's another table page 56 of your draft shows you 00:08:30.449 --> 00:08:31.639 how you can earn 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:35.159 those points. You're not decreasing the quality of the 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:36.639 buffer by giving them 00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:39.360 options for points. You're just saying you earn the points 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:40.039 however you want to 00:08:40.039 --> 00:08:45.009 a stone wall gets you more points trees get you more points 00:08:45.009 --> 00:08:46.200 . You keep adding up 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:49.299 those options until you've reached 50. Now if I'm single- 00:08:49.299 --> 00:08:50.320 family and I want to 00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:53.409 build next to another single-family you don't have to do a 00:08:53.409 --> 00:08:55.039 buffer. That just 00:08:55.039 --> 00:08:58.340 doesn't make sense right we want to protect things from 00:08:58.340 --> 00:08:59.480 more intense uses. 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:03.090 The last one I'll mention here in the landscaping then we 00:09:03.090 --> 00:09:04.080 'll get into some 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:07.669 some questions about this one is low impact development. 00:09:07.669 --> 00:09:09.159 Green infrastructure 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:13.220 rather than requiring everything to be in pipes and piped 00:09:13.220 --> 00:09:14.720 infrastructure and 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:18.879 putting downspouts directly into pipes. How could we run 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:19.960 water across a 00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:23.450 property to actually improve the water quality to require 00:09:23.450 --> 00:09:24.159 less piped 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:28.919 infrastructure? This still needs some working out with 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:30.639 coordinating with the 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:33.289 engineering department making sure that we can actually do 00:09:33.289 --> 00:09:34.200 all of these things 00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:38.159 but I'll mention Denton is very proud of and should be to 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:39.000 be a silver-servant 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:42.970 certified I swim for stormwater management city. That's 00:09:42.970 --> 00:09:43.679 important in 00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:47.120 terms of thinking about how you treat and move water across 00:09:47.120 --> 00:09:47.679 the site 00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:51.000 sustainably. We have given you options to do green 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:52.720 infrastructure not mandates 00:09:52.720 --> 00:09:56.389 saying you can do these things where it makes sense where 00:09:56.389 --> 00:09:57.000 it's allowed by 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:01.220 drainage and other departments within the city. Those are 00:10:01.220 --> 00:10:02.399 the three the big 00:10:02.399 --> 00:10:05.840 three for landscaping. I'll open it up to questions before 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:06.639 we move to the next 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:14.840 topic. Commissioner Beck. Explain rain garden just for 00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:15.919 clarification I'm not 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:17.539 familiar with that I understand the other things you're 00:10:17.539 --> 00:10:18.240 talking about there 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:21.460 what are we looking at and what's a rain garden? Rain 00:10:21.460 --> 00:10:22.799 garden also known as a 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:27.360 bioretention facility. These are ways of planting certain 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:29.679 water loving plants and 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:34.330 natural organic materials into a depression area that 00:10:34.330 --> 00:10:36.000 actually captures 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:39.960 the water and holds it for a short period of time. They can 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:41.159 be inundated by 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:43.980 water when a big rainstorm comes and hold that water 00:10:43.980 --> 00:10:45.320 without it killing the 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:48.669 plants without it shifting landscaping material all across 00:10:48.669 --> 00:10:50.120 the site it can hold 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:53.450 the water improve the quality of the water and then release 00:10:53.450 --> 00:10:54.759 it slowly into 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:59.320 the into the ground or across the site. When these they 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:00.919 have the option to do 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:03.740 these they're not mandated they have the option so correct 00:11:03.740 --> 00:11:04.480 when they choose 00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:08.029 whatever they choose to do it'll still will still come 00:11:08.029 --> 00:11:09.440 before the P&Z and we'll 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:12.850 look at what they've got and could we question why they 00:11:12.850 --> 00:11:14.320 chose one option over 00:11:14.320 --> 00:11:16.919 the other is that something that the P&Z will see is that 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:18.480 something the director 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:23.940 will it's a great question from it. Commissioner Beck a lot 00:11:23.940 --> 00:11:24.919 of this came out 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:28.419 of the procedures that we talked about last month. Some 00:11:28.419 --> 00:11:30.360 applications warrant a 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:34.340 public hearing because they're complex they're big they 00:11:34.340 --> 00:11:35.600 mean a lot your phone's 00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:38.179 been ringing off the hook you're gonna need a public 00:11:38.179 --> 00:11:39.279 hearing some projects 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:42.340 require City Council approval some come to the Commission a 00:11:42.340 --> 00:11:43.399 lot of simple 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:47.850 projects especially now with a more straightforward and 00:11:47.850 --> 00:11:49.039 transparent code a 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:52.139 lot of decisions can just be made at the staff level. If 00:11:52.139 --> 00:11:53.600 you've already told the 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:58.080 community this site is appropriate for a Taco Bell fast 00:11:58.080 --> 00:11:59.440 food restaurant on a 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:03.179 site and I'm coming to you with the Taco Bell what's there 00:12:03.179 --> 00:12:04.840 to talk about at a 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:08.429 public hearing right so it's a matter of staff being able 00:12:08.429 --> 00:12:09.159 and the Planning 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:12.529 Commission being able to review did they meet the code do 00:12:12.529 --> 00:12:13.720 they have enough trees 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:17.350 did they get enough points for buffers if they're providing 00:12:17.350 --> 00:12:18.000 LID or green 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:21.220 infrastructure options they can question it you can 00:12:21.220 --> 00:12:23.080 question it but are they 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:25.929 meeting all of the requirements of the city? Right okay but 00:12:25.929 --> 00:12:26.519 it is something we 00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:30.970 can review absolutely okay thank you Commissioner Smith. 00:12:30.970 --> 00:12:32.720 Thank you Chair. On the 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:36.929 the landscape buffers and the ability to direct to approve 00:12:36.929 --> 00:12:38.559 alternates on the 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:43.200 from the director standpoint yeah so what to what level are 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:43.919 they allowed to 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:46.529 approve those alternates essentially what there's got to be 00:12:46.529 --> 00:12:47.120 some sort of 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:48.669 threshold that's put into there is that back whenever we 00:12:48.669 --> 00:12:49.639 were talking procedures 00:12:49.639 --> 00:12:53.899 last the last module I mean they can prove alternates if 00:12:53.899 --> 00:12:55.320 you give that if you 00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:57.490 give that unilateral decision that yeah you can you can 00:12:57.490 --> 00:12:58.519 prove those alternates 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:00.970 at what point does it stop and say well actually that 00:13:00.970 --> 00:13:02.159 probably should come in 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:05.440 front of a public hearing or item for individual 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:06.159 consideration or something like that. 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:09.240 Very good question and it does relate partially to what we 00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:09.919 talked about last 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:12.210 month but that's a different than what I've talked about 00:13:12.210 --> 00:13:13.559 today. Last month we 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:18.070 presented minor modifications and those allow numeric 00:13:18.070 --> 00:13:19.840 standards to change a 00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:23.799 numeric change in the setback requirements or the building 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:24.320 height 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:27.809 requirements up to a certain percentage. There we can apply 00:13:27.809 --> 00:13:28.559 very strict 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:32.519 thresholds to say look director we want you to be able to 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:34.639 approve up to a this 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:37.730 amount anything above that is too much it needs to come to 00:13:37.730 --> 00:13:38.440 the Planning 00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:42.080 Commission or to City Council. In this case the alternative 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:43.240 actually builds in 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.970 additional approval criteria. First of all we lay out a 00:13:46.970 --> 00:13:48.440 through H parameters 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:52.240 under which the director has the authority to even consider 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:53.519 other other 00:13:53.519 --> 00:13:56.879 alternatives including utilities on the site that are 00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:58.360 challenging including 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:04.110 infill or redevelopment properties. This is page 53 of the 00:14:04.110 --> 00:14:05.679 draft alternative 00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:16.720 landscaping and so a lot of these features replace the 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:17.480 alternative 00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:22.149 development plan procedure that you're used to now. That's 00:14:22.149 --> 00:14:22.960 fine we have it 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:25.279 currently in place I'll look over page 53 and I'll ask more 00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:26.559 questions at the end 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:28.960 just for the sake of time. Okay. As you referenced earlier 00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:29.720 one thing I did have 00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:32.639 asked question on the what is your pedagogy to the point 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:35.080 minimum on the 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:38.389 the buffering set the standards on the point based system. 00:14:38.389 --> 00:14:39.720 Yeah you're looking 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:43.320 through that on page 56 it's ten point twenty point type 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:44.679 stuff where's the 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:47.710 pedagogy come from say this is our this is the reason why 00:14:47.710 --> 00:14:48.960 we chose this point 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:52.679 this reason why we assigned these certain buffers these 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:54.720 certain points. Yeah 00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:58.500 where did that come from? Great question so we had to come 00:14:58.500 --> 00:14:59.519 up with a system. Yeah. 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:02.409 One way of doing that was being very thoughtful about what 00:15:02.409 --> 00:15:03.320 's worth twice as 00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:06.049 much than something else. Okay. And then what's worth twice 00:15:06.049 --> 00:15:07.159 as much as even that 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:10.730 is and so our first step was rather than looking at the 00:15:10.730 --> 00:15:12.440 buffer points scale for 00:15:12.440 --> 00:15:16.440 how much things are worth how much should be required 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:17.840 between the different 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:21.299 types of uses residential versus industrial we knew right 00:15:21.299 --> 00:15:22.360 away that you 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:24.679 require the most buffer points regardless of how much 00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:25.480 points those are 00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:28.080 they should be the biggest number you have to hit. For 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:29.120 coming up with the point 00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:32.840 totals we did use some methodology and we've looked at 00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:33.759 other examples and we've 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:36.059 looked at a lot of the other codes that we've written it 00:15:36.059 --> 00:15:37.279 comes down to a fence 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:41.919 is not a very big deal it's not hard to do but it is a good 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:43.080 buffer tool so that's 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:46.570 worth ten points you want to plant some shrubs in the 00:15:46.570 --> 00:15:48.799 landscape buffer shrubs are 00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:53.379 great not the best buffering tool because you can walk over 00:15:53.379 --> 00:15:53.960 and step 00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:57.240 through and look through shrubs those are worth five points 00:15:57.240 --> 00:15:58.759 you build a taller 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:02.740 masonry wall that's gonna get you 20 points because it does 00:16:02.740 --> 00:16:03.559 a better job 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:06.639 meeting the intent of this section of the code. So in this 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:07.639 specifically did you 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:09.850 look at our current you look at our current code our 00:16:09.850 --> 00:16:10.840 current buffer rules 00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:14.059 yes and essentially line up those points to kind of okay 00:16:14.059 --> 00:16:15.240 currently this is what 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:18.940 it is now essentially this is amicable this point system is 00:16:18.940 --> 00:16:19.559 amicable so we're 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:22.480 not just choosing these points out of thin air randomly 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:23.320 assigning masonry 00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:27.279 walls 20 because it feels like a 20 and wooden fences get a 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:28.519 10 and you know what 00:16:28.519 --> 00:16:31.879 I actually like you know the I like chain link fences so I 00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:32.559 'm actually give 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:35.200 them seven instead of five that kind of crap we're not 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:36.159 choosing stuff out of thin air. 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:49.600 You said the secret word of the day. It's a great question 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:50.519 I'll respond in the 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:54.940 following way we don't pull this stuff out of thin air it's 00:16:54.940 --> 00:16:56.360 not willy-nilly it 00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:59.529 is based on some of your current standards we did make some 00:16:59.529 --> 00:17:01.039 changes we 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:03.960 have to land somewhere to get a draft that's out there for 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:05.279 review it's not 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:08.750 science I will put it to that you're you're not going to 00:17:08.750 --> 00:17:09.480 find a study that 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:13.880 says no it should be worth seven and a half points you are 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:15.079 you're wrong so at 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.839 some point we land on thresholds the same be told for what 00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:20.079 types of projects 00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:23.890 you require expansions of an existing property to to comply 00:17:23.890 --> 00:17:25.039 with the code we 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:28.480 picked 25 percent because it's a good starting point. 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:32.440 If I say I'm not bogging people down I think I'll relinqu 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:33.279 ish my mic. 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:46.259 Any other questions on this section? That's a fun one. Okay 00:17:46.259 --> 00:17:48.200 . Well that was easy. 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:54.769 Move forward. Okay. Parking and loading you know what I 00:17:54.769 --> 00:17:55.960 like parking and loading 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:58.819 but not as much as Jim so I'm gonna have Jim come up and 00:17:58.819 --> 00:18:02.000 present this please. 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:10.450 All right parking and loading so we made a lot of changes 00:18:10.450 --> 00:18:13.839 to this section based 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:17.349 on the feedback that we heard from everyone that we spoke 00:18:17.349 --> 00:18:17.920 to in our 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:21.910 previous visits. This is a quick overview just like landsca 00:18:21.910 --> 00:18:23.519 ping summary of changes 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:26.599 as we've created a new parking table that matches the land 00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:27.640 use types from the 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:32.119 first set of material that we delivered with the parking 00:18:32.119 --> 00:18:34.000 standards so every use 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:36.509 that's allowed in the city has a corresponding parking 00:18:36.509 --> 00:18:37.279 standard so there's 00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:41.089 no question of well what how much parking do I need well 00:18:41.089 --> 00:18:42.240 look in the table 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:46.269 because it's there so that's new and that's really intended 00:18:46.269 --> 00:18:47.319 to make it easy 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:50.269 for everybody to understand exactly what's required without 00:18:50.269 --> 00:18:50.880 having a lot of 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:55.160 question marks there. We revised the parking and loading 00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:55.839 requirements to 00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:59.509 reflect parking trends both nationally and in here in Texas 00:18:59.509 --> 00:19:01.119 so a lot of times 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:04.769 parking standards get outdated because things change you 00:19:04.769 --> 00:19:06.240 get uber and Lyft and 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:08.970 autonomous vehicles and things like that and parking 00:19:08.970 --> 00:19:10.420 standards will continue to 00:19:10.420 --> 00:19:15.519 evolve over time so we've updated those to reflect current 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:17.160 trends and then 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:22.130 another big change is the the maximum so right now and it's 00:19:22.130 --> 00:19:23.319 it's fairly unusual 00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:26.789 to have a minimum requirement and a maximum requirement 00:19:26.789 --> 00:19:27.880 that are the same 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:31.259 and that's that's currently what Denton has so we've 00:19:31.259 --> 00:19:33.000 adjusted the maximum to be 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:37.089 125% of the required minimum so for example if you have a 00:19:37.089 --> 00:19:38.440 restaurant that 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:42.400 needs a hundred parking stalls hundred but you can't 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:44.400 provide more than 125 00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:48.720 parking stalls and we've also introduced a whole suite of 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:50.799 alternatives just like 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:53.849 landscaping we've made the parking a lot more flexible to 00:19:53.849 --> 00:19:55.319 say these are the 00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:58.349 standards but there's ways you can adjust them if you're 00:19:58.349 --> 00:19:59.319 close to a fixed 00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:02.730 transit station you can adjust the parking minimum by 25 00:20:02.730 --> 00:20:04.440 percent if you're 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:07.359 if you have shared parking with another use you can adjust 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:08.480 the parking minimum 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:11.599 by a certain number so we've introduced a number of those 00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:14.440 alternatives again to 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:20.049 make it to make it address the context of where the 00:20:20.049 --> 00:20:24.240 development is the the 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:27.269 next bullet there we've introduced a discretionary parking 00:20:27.269 --> 00:20:28.000 requirements with 00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.359 the demand study so there are some land uses that there's 00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:32.759 there's no way to 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:38.349 predict how much parking you'll need let's say let me find 00:20:38.349 --> 00:20:40.640 an example here 00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:47.859 so one example is like an electric substation is there 00:20:47.859 --> 00:20:50.839 parking required for 00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:54.440 that so we've we've drafted something to say that based on 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:55.640 a demand study the 00:20:55.640 --> 00:21:00.380 director can determine how much parking is required so 00:21:00.380 --> 00:21:02.599 another example is like a 00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:02.599 sanitary landfill you know that that use can vary 00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:11.279 drastically we've also adjusted 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:16.329 the loading loading and unloading standards so in today's 00:21:16.329 --> 00:21:18.039 day and age you 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:22.000 get a lot more frequent deliveries in smaller vehicles back 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:24.119 20 30 years ago it 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:27.809 was pretty common to have a big semi come and unload a load 00:21:27.809 --> 00:21:28.920 every one or two 00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:32.569 weeks now you see almost daily deliveries with smaller 00:21:32.569 --> 00:21:34.720 vehicles so we've we've 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:38.500 exempted small buildings less than 10,000 square feet from 00:21:38.500 --> 00:21:39.400 having to provide a 00:21:39.400 --> 00:21:44.519 loading dock on site anything more than that we do have 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:46.240 loading standards based 00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:49.740 on the size of the structure commissioner back thank you 00:21:49.740 --> 00:21:50.680 chair question 00:21:50.680 --> 00:21:54.890 on that when you go downtown now I'm assuming this refers 00:21:54.890 --> 00:21:55.920 to areas around the 00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:59.589 square then yeah anywhere in the city okay what we usually 00:21:59.589 --> 00:22:00.440 see down there and 00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:03.259 I can understand small trucks like ups trucks and stuff 00:22:03.259 --> 00:22:04.160 like that but every 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:07.279 once in a while there will be a semi parked in one lane on 00:22:07.279 --> 00:22:08.000 the square so are 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:11.220 we gonna the new rules going to establish that they have to 00:22:11.220 --> 00:22:11.539 be the 00:22:11.539 --> 00:22:14.859 smaller vehicles that they won't allow these big semis has 00:22:14.859 --> 00:22:15.940 that been taken in 00:22:15.940 --> 00:22:20.430 consideration no so that the DDC will will just write the 00:22:20.430 --> 00:22:22.039 rules for what what 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:24.539 a developer has to provide on a site if they're building 00:22:24.539 --> 00:22:25.640 something or changing 00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:29.029 something on the property so again this applies to two 00:22:29.029 --> 00:22:29.839 buildings that are 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:32.559 smaller than 10,000 square feet which is relatively small 00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:34.359 or commercial use but 00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:37.420 if you've got a 40 foot trailer and they're not always 40 00:22:37.420 --> 00:22:38.319 foot but they're the 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:41.819 long trader types they take up several parking places they 00:22:41.819 --> 00:22:43.279 have to move stuff 00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:45.799 around to get to it takes a lot longer for them to get 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:46.920 their product out and 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:49.650 into the store so that's not gonna change then they're they 00:22:49.650 --> 00:22:50.519 're not gonna be 00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:57.839 restricted right okay okay thank you and then to to move 00:22:57.839 --> 00:22:58.839 down here we've also 00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:02.470 increased flexibility with parking with exemptions so in 00:23:02.470 --> 00:23:04.160 the new MD zone that 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:07.869 the mixed-use downtown core zone we've exempted any 00:23:07.869 --> 00:23:09.640 property from having to 00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:13.480 provide the minimum parking it's difficult to do that in a 00:23:13.480 --> 00:23:13.920 downtown 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:16.390 because if if you require parking then you have a lot of 00:23:16.390 --> 00:23:17.400 surface parking and 00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:20.710 you no longer have a downtown or you require parking and no 00:23:20.710 --> 00:23:21.319 one can do 00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:24.539 anything because there's not enough space to park cars so 00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:25.619 in the MDs 00:23:25.619 --> 00:23:30.099 district we've said just build your product and if it doesn 00:23:30.099 --> 00:23:32.000 't work then pick 00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:34.460 a different product but we're not going to say that you 00:23:34.460 --> 00:23:35.480 have to provide this 00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:39.329 this many parking stalls in the downtown and then the last 00:23:39.329 --> 00:23:40.359 bullet is we've 00:23:40.359 --> 00:23:44.920 exempted any property any non-residential use on a lot less 00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:45.119 than 00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:47.680 five thousand square feet from having to provide parking 00:23:47.680 --> 00:23:48.839 and that's pretty small 00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:52.869 five thousand square foot lot is is small but if you have a 00:23:52.869 --> 00:23:54.359 tiny insurance 00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:58.319 agency that has a three thousand square foot lot we're not 00:23:58.319 --> 00:23:59.359 going to require them 00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:05.660 to provide parking for that use in the city so with that 00:24:05.660 --> 00:24:07.720 are there questions on 00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:12.700 parking and loading and yes commissioner Smith a chair 00:24:12.700 --> 00:24:14.440 roughly how much did you 00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:18.400 change or give the ability for us to change the minimum 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:19.759 downwards if we've 00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:23.720 also increased the maximum of 25% just doing this in search 00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:24.480 of being able to 00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:27.319 how much how much flexibility will this Commission and the 00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:28.079 City Council in the 00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:32.069 future have to start eliminating unnecessary parking where 00:24:32.069 --> 00:24:32.799 I think it's 00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:39.119 it probably exists now yeah so the the adjustment to the 00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:39.880 minimums we've already 00:24:39.880 --> 00:24:42.839 done that in the table so we've already reduced what you 00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:43.759 currently require in 00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:47.990 many cases lower than what it is now would you say it's I'm 00:24:47.990 --> 00:24:48.240 just looking for 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:51.470 generalities here is it you say you you you grossly reduce 00:24:51.470 --> 00:24:52.720 the minimum in 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:55.539 comparison to what we currently have we looked at each you 00:24:55.539 --> 00:24:56.460 specifically so we 00:24:56.460 --> 00:24:59.559 didn't just say we're gonna reduce everything by 20% sure 00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:00.000 but we looked at 00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:03.680 it all individually I know for retail for example right now 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:04.400 you guys require 00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:08.710 one stall per 350 square feet we made that one stall per 00:25:08.710 --> 00:25:11.240 300 okay or no it was 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:13.829 the reverse so right now you require one per 300 we made it 00:25:13.829 --> 00:25:16.279 one per 350 and then 00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:20.690 with the alternatives we allow the alternatives to reduce 00:25:20.690 --> 00:25:21.960 the parking so 00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:25.720 for example if you have shared parking off-site parking if 00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:27.079 you're proximate to 00:25:27.079 --> 00:25:30.769 transit if you provide affordable housing you can reduce 00:25:30.769 --> 00:25:31.799 the the number of 00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:38.950 parking up to 50% cumulatively so for example on street 00:25:38.950 --> 00:25:39.799 parking you can reduce 00:25:39.799 --> 00:25:47.630 the percentage by on a one-to-one ratio so if you have four 00:25:47.630 --> 00:25:48.480 spaces in front of 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:51.559 your building you can take four spaces off the off-site 00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:52.640 parking required 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.910 proximate to transit you can reduce up to 25% and you can 00:25:56.910 --> 00:25:57.799 combine all those 00:25:57.799 --> 00:26:01.019 things to reduce it up to 50% just trying to get an overall 00:26:01.019 --> 00:26:01.759 feel for it yes 00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:04.319 we've increased things we did it was bad that we had our 00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:05.279 minimum our maximum 00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:07.680 the same that's pretty restrictive it's good to know that 00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:08.559 we have the ability to 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:12.680 to increase by 25% but I wanted to know on a general level 00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:13.960 how much flexibility 00:26:13.960 --> 00:26:16.789 have we given to the minimums it seems like the revisions 00:26:16.789 --> 00:26:18.079 gonna allow for for 00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:21.160 lower smaller minimums that are right are gonna go down it 00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:22.000 seems like on an 00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:25.170 overall judgment they're all gonna go down then you allow 00:26:25.170 --> 00:26:26.359 for alternatives to 00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:29.529 even decrease even more in certain scenarios right that's 00:26:29.529 --> 00:26:30.480 right perfect 00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:32.680 that's what we want we don't want to have to have builders 00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:33.640 have to expend more 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:36.690 for parking that's unnecessary for a certain site because 00:26:36.690 --> 00:26:37.480 of very simple 00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:40.019 logic that we can decide upon as a commission yeah and we 00:26:40.019 --> 00:26:40.720 think I mean a 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:43.750 huge factor in this is the market I mean people developers 00:26:43.750 --> 00:26:44.480 aren't gonna build 00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:49.069 stuff that isn't gonna work so it's a lot of times it's to 00:26:49.069 --> 00:26:49.920 say get out of the 00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:52.599 way of good development and just let them do their thing 00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:53.740 and then where the 00:26:53.740 --> 00:26:56.599 city's interested is when we'll step in and say okay we 00:26:56.599 --> 00:26:57.839 want to address traffic 00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:01.359 concerns safety concerns things like that and that's where 00:27:01.359 --> 00:27:02.119 we have the 00:27:02.119 --> 00:27:05.599 minimums sure and just the second question I was just as we 00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:06.359 're doing a 00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:11.660 city-wide rezone with this with this update if a you know a 00:27:11.660 --> 00:27:13.480 business is you 00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:16.740 know these new parking minimums and maximums are applied a 00:27:16.740 --> 00:27:17.480 business is 00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:19.670 operating then they go through a change where they need to 00:27:19.670 --> 00:27:20.519 come back in front of 00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:25.049 us for a reapproval for whatever whatever use whatever it 00:27:25.049 --> 00:27:26.160 is they would 00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:28.779 then be allowed within the way this is written the way we 00:27:28.779 --> 00:27:29.880 're update the DDC 00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:32.700 they would then be allowed to change their parking lot 00:27:32.700 --> 00:27:33.519 structure if they're 00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:36.980 I'll say they're asking for a rezone or they're doing a 00:27:36.980 --> 00:27:38.559 replat or something like 00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:40.980 that they would that would allow us to then also change 00:27:40.980 --> 00:27:42.000 with their current 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:44.920 standing minimums and maximums are for their parking 00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:45.799 depending upon whatever 00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:48.619 project they're wanting to build or do yeah so at the 00:27:48.619 --> 00:27:49.960 beginning of the parking 00:27:49.960 --> 00:27:53.920 section on page 85 and 86 there's applicability standards 00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:55.359 to say in what 00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:58.869 scenario do you have to essentially comply with these 00:27:58.869 --> 00:28:01.240 standards so there you 00:28:01.240 --> 00:28:03.569 have standards for new development any new development in 00:28:03.569 --> 00:28:04.319 the city is gonna 00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:07.559 have to comply with these standards once they're adopted 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:08.640 expansions and 00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:11.670 enlargements under some cases you'll have to comply others 00:28:11.670 --> 00:28:12.960 you may not depends 00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:16.920 on the scale of what you're doing and then we did have in 00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:18.880 here that the entire 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:23.849 site complies if you're adding or expanding one or more 00:28:23.849 --> 00:28:24.400 structures that 00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:26.660 requires a specific use permit so that would be something 00:28:26.660 --> 00:28:27.440 that the Planning 00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:29.990 Commission and the council would review so that could 00:28:29.990 --> 00:28:31.200 trigger them to say okay 00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:33.400 if you want to have this use on the property you have to 00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:34.119 bring your whole 00:28:34.119 --> 00:28:41.980 site into compliance with parking works thank you other 00:28:41.980 --> 00:28:44.039 questions I'll just make 00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:48.309 a comment I think this is a huge cleanup this has been a an 00:28:48.309 --> 00:28:50.000 issue in our city for 00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:54.480 a long long time and I've sat there with clients making 00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:55.519 decisions on where they're 00:28:55.519 --> 00:28:58.920 gonna locate their business whether they can park it or not 00:28:58.920 --> 00:28:59.759 because the use 00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:03.730 change from office to medical or whatever and the ability 00:29:03.730 --> 00:29:04.599 of property 00:29:04.599 --> 00:29:08.039 owners or business owners to be able to determine how to 00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:10.359 park their business and 00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:13.599 give them the ability to do that I think is a huge cleanup 00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:16.279 and I think it will 00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:21.960 make some good changes in our city on places that need to 00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:24.160 be renewed but have 00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:26.900 been overlooked because you can't park them and so you can 00:29:26.900 --> 00:29:27.599 't go put a new 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:30.849 business there because you can't make the parking standards 00:29:30.849 --> 00:29:31.960 and so I think this 00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:35.920 is a I would just applaud you I think this is a very good 00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:37.079 change for our 00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:45.720 city any other questions on this side item all right 00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:47.960 forward so we'll jump 00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:53.970 into site and building design so right now this this topic 00:29:53.970 --> 00:29:55.400 really covers a lot 00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:58.220 of things how buildings are oriented on a site the level of 00:29:58.220 --> 00:29:59.039 quality for the 00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:04.720 building how the pedestrians and vehicles interact with the 00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:05.480 site this 00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:09.190 this section also addresses wall articulation you can see 00:30:09.190 --> 00:30:10.319 here this is an 00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:14.799 example of not very good articulation so really this this 00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:15.480 section our approach 00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:19.170 was to say let's write rules to rule out all the bad 00:30:19.170 --> 00:30:20.960 players and encourage 00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:24.289 designers and architects and developers to be creative and 00:30:24.289 --> 00:30:25.400 to create projects 00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:28.619 that they think will contribute to Denton and as Tarek said 00:30:28.619 --> 00:30:29.400 there's a lot 00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:32.500 of great stuff already here and we use that as a baseline 00:30:32.500 --> 00:30:33.680 to say these are the 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:35.960 projects that are working well and that people love here 00:30:35.960 --> 00:30:36.960 let's write the 00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:40.549 standards to allow those types of buildings but to not be 00:30:40.549 --> 00:30:41.480 too strict to 00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:43.630 say you have to do this this and this to where it 00:30:43.630 --> 00:30:46.720 eliminates creativity and 00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:50.829 flexibility so this section also addresses visual interest 00:30:50.829 --> 00:30:52.519 in relief this 00:30:52.519 --> 00:30:55.740 is an example of maybe what a mixed-use district might look 00:30:55.740 --> 00:30:57.240 like and then 00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:00.769 architectural features your downtown district is very 00:31:00.769 --> 00:31:01.799 different than other 00:31:01.799 --> 00:31:04.089 areas of the city and there may be more stringent 00:31:04.089 --> 00:31:05.759 architectural design standards 00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:09.349 or guidelines for the downtown area than there would be 00:31:09.349 --> 00:31:10.920 elsewhere in the city so 00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:15.059 we've really looked at this on a context approach to say 00:31:15.059 --> 00:31:16.240 what's appropriate in 00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:19.859 this area something in the industrial park maybe we don't 00:31:19.859 --> 00:31:20.759 care as much as it 00:31:20.759 --> 00:31:26.440 is here downtown so as far as an overview the organization 00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:26.839 of this 00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:31.490 section is quite different than what you have now we start 00:31:31.490 --> 00:31:32.359 with single-family 00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:35.269 duplex and townhome standards those are different than 00:31:35.269 --> 00:31:36.720 multifamily which are 00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:39.400 different than non-residential and mixed-use and then 00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:40.359 finally the MN and 00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:44.319 MD districts for the mixed-use districts so each tier has 00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:45.000 its own set of 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:49.029 standards that apply to those areas in those contexts so as 00:31:49.029 --> 00:31:50.519 you read through 00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:55.640 the draft you'll see that and then other things that this 00:31:55.640 --> 00:31:56.599 chapter addresses are 00:31:56.599 --> 00:32:00.000 site design and orientation like I said it's common for 00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:01.359 multifamily projects to 00:32:01.359 --> 00:32:03.980 have several buildings on one site how should those 00:32:03.980 --> 00:32:05.480 buildings be organized and 00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:09.029 placed so that it makes the most sense for both the 00:32:09.029 --> 00:32:10.680 pedestrian the developers 00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:14.769 the city to achieve their goals the mass and form of 00:32:14.769 --> 00:32:17.039 buildings that brings us 00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:19.930 back to the articulation how frequently should you have a 00:32:19.930 --> 00:32:22.000 recess or some 00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:25.089 articulation in a wall so that you don't have these blank 00:32:25.089 --> 00:32:26.799 walls along important 00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:32.680 streets in Denton architectural variety building materials 00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:34.880 is masonry 00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:38.839 required how much is metal allowed how much and then 00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:39.960 transparency in windows 00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:43.339 it's important to be able to both see in and out of 00:32:43.339 --> 00:32:44.920 buildings for visual 00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:48.650 interest but also just from a functional standpoint of the 00:32:48.650 --> 00:32:52.079 structure itself so 00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:55.049 some key changes we've introduced alternative standards for 00:32:55.049 --> 00:32:55.440 infill 00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:59.529 development and higher quality design again it's really 00:32:59.529 --> 00:33:00.839 tough to have a one 00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:04.920 size fits all so infill projects can be very challenging 00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:05.839 and it may not be 00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:10.130 practical to comply black and white with with the letter of 00:33:10.130 --> 00:33:11.440 the law so we've 00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:14.420 allowed for alternative designs to say okay you can get 00:33:14.420 --> 00:33:15.680 creative and propose 00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:20.740 something that that exceeds the code requirements new 00:33:20.740 --> 00:33:21.960 standards for 00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:25.130 multifamily building developments so again how are those 00:33:25.130 --> 00:33:26.599 buildings oriented on 00:33:26.599 --> 00:33:30.119 the site you have common gathering space courtyards are you 00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:31.000 framing the corner of 00:33:31.000 --> 00:33:34.690 the intersection things like that and then new specific 00:33:34.690 --> 00:33:35.759 standards for the MN 00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:39.920 and MD districts so here's an example 60% of the street 00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:40.640 frontage shall have 00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:43.859 buildings within 10 feet of the front lot line in the MN or 00:33:43.859 --> 00:33:45.079 MD zones and those 00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:47.970 zones are pedestrian oriented districts so you want to have 00:33:47.970 --> 00:33:49.039 buildings closer to 00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:52.599 the street to provide visual interest people are walking so 00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:53.640 it's a lot easier 00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:57.759 to access the buildings things like that so that's a quick 00:33:57.759 --> 00:33:59.119 overview of site and 00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:06.269 building design if you have additional questions or 00:34:06.269 --> 00:34:11.280 comments we're making record 00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:15.610 time continue yeah we're doing well okay so exterior 00:34:15.610 --> 00:34:17.079 lighting so this is the last 00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:21.039 topic that will that will dress the the code right now is 00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:22.400 really doesn't really 00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:26.960 address lighting in detail so we've added really general 00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:28.079 basic standards to 00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:31.690 say that if you do provide lighting on your site have it be 00:34:31.690 --> 00:34:33.199 downcast don't shed 00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:37.590 light onto your neighboring properties so that someone 00:34:37.590 --> 00:34:38.840 trying to sleep at night 00:34:38.840 --> 00:34:41.869 doesn't have this glaring bright window shine or light 00:34:41.869 --> 00:34:42.719 shining through their 00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:47.849 window and because we're requiring a lot more pedestrian 00:34:47.849 --> 00:34:49.159 facility sidewalks 00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:54.099 pathways they we want them to be lit so that they're safe 00:34:54.099 --> 00:34:54.880 so we've included some 00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:58.050 really basic standards to say those pedestrian areas should 00:34:58.050 --> 00:34:59.039 be lit with with 00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:03.289 lighting no more than 16 feet tall to relate to the scale 00:35:03.289 --> 00:35:04.880 of a person they 00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:08.150 should be full cut off downcast fixtures and that they 00:35:08.150 --> 00:35:09.760 should be required along 00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:12.980 internal sidewalks and paths and then for parking area 00:35:12.980 --> 00:35:13.960 lighting we've 00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:16.530 introduced some standards saying there shouldn't be taller 00:35:16.530 --> 00:35:17.440 than 25 feet and 00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:20.469 again they should be downcast and that light shouldn't 00:35:20.469 --> 00:35:21.679 spill on neighboring 00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:25.269 properties more than one foot candle at the property line 00:35:25.269 --> 00:35:26.559 which is something 00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:29.510 that the code enforcement can can actually go out and 00:35:29.510 --> 00:35:30.440 measure with an 00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:35.900 instrument so with that there are questions on lighting 00:35:35.900 --> 00:35:36.800 Commissioner 00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:39.320 Sullivan 00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:50.280 so we don't have that standard in the current ordinance 00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:51.360 that's something that 00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:54.539 the that the developer would decide or the the staff would 00:35:54.539 --> 00:35:55.639 say listen you have 00:35:55.639 --> 00:35:58.230 you need more than just one light on this pathway because 00:35:58.230 --> 00:35:59.199 it only lights this 00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:03.889 one area and a lot of places require a photometric lighting 00:36:03.889 --> 00:36:05.199 plan to show how 00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:07.510 much light is going to be cast on the site and that's 00:36:07.510 --> 00:36:08.679 something that the staff 00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:11.659 can include in their administrative manual that they're 00:36:11.659 --> 00:36:12.719 drafting is if that 00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:16.679 would be required so that's something that the staff can 00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:18.039 work out internally to 00:36:18.039 --> 00:36:20.579 say how much lighting is required we just say if you 00:36:20.579 --> 00:36:22.400 provide lighting these 00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:25.920 are the general standards it shouldn't be taller than this 00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:30.320 on the site in 00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:34.699 commercial and non-residential lighting we do specify in 00:36:34.699 --> 00:36:36.360 parking lots that the 00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:39.579 average illuminance values in that parking lot shall be at 00:36:39.579 --> 00:36:41.000 least two foot 00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:45.349 candles which is a standard for measuring the amount of 00:36:45.349 --> 00:36:46.840 light downcast 00:36:46.840 --> 00:36:49.710 we say it can't go over one at the property line so you're 00:36:49.710 --> 00:36:50.559 not creating a 00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:53.280 nuisance issue but it's got to be at least two in the 00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:54.559 parking area that's 00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:57.590 just for basic safety it's up to you how you get to that 00:36:57.590 --> 00:36:59.639 two foot candles in an 00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:03.639 even distribution also there are a lot of places where in 00:37:03.639 --> 00:37:05.199 the evening it may be 00:37:05.199 --> 00:37:08.170 well lit on the main street but then when you want to turn 00:37:08.170 --> 00:37:09.239 you can't even see 00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:12.300 that you know where the curb is because there's no light 00:37:12.300 --> 00:37:13.519 you know that you can't 00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:16.900 see and then for pedestrians it's hard to see pedestrians 00:37:16.900 --> 00:37:18.840 and so what's you 00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:24.000 know is there a an amount of light that should be well all 00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:25.800 those places so people 00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:29.599 don't get hurt it's an excellent point I will tell you our 00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:30.880 method here was to 00:37:30.880 --> 00:37:35.199 take a relatively light touch primarily because you don't 00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:36.639 really regulate light 00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:40.739 much now we stepped it up a notch to get you to have some 00:37:40.739 --> 00:37:42.119 minimal regulations 00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:46.190 oftentimes communities want some standards for crime 00:37:46.190 --> 00:37:47.400 prevention and 00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:50.699 environmental design and that's kind of what you're getting 00:37:50.699 --> 00:37:52.119 at how much light is 00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:55.369 too much light and if you have too much light in one space 00:37:55.369 --> 00:37:56.679 and not enough light 00:37:56.679 --> 00:38:01.670 over here it's almost blinding once you exit the well-lit 00:38:01.670 --> 00:38:02.960 area you can't see 00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:06.719 pedestrians you can't see somebody on the bike and also you 00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:07.119 create 00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:10.960 opportunities for criminal activity if it's not a better 00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:12.519 distribution of light 00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:15.730 we can explore some of that if we get that type of 00:38:15.730 --> 00:38:17.960 direction we have drafted 00:38:17.960 --> 00:38:20.329 those types of standards before and we're we're happy to 00:38:20.329 --> 00:38:21.119 bring something 00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:23.800 before you on that 00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:38.360 anything else on lighting okay so subdivisions so this is 00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:40.199 sub chapter 7 of 00:38:40.199 --> 00:38:43.369 the draft there this is a table of contents for what's 00:38:43.369 --> 00:38:44.480 included in that 00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:47.650 subchapter so there's a purpose statement the applicability 00:38:47.650 --> 00:38:48.239 when when do 00:38:48.239 --> 00:38:52.659 these standards apply subdivision design standards and then 00:38:52.659 --> 00:38:53.559 improvement standards 00:38:53.559 --> 00:38:57.519 so we'll walk through just a few changes there we've we've 00:38:57.519 --> 00:38:58.519 introduced new 00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:02.199 flag lot standards in the city I'm sure you all are aware 00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:03.400 of what a flag lot is 00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:06.619 but those those standards are really minimal right now so 00:39:06.619 --> 00:39:07.519 we've enhanced 00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:11.360 those to make it clear as to when when these are allowed 00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:12.800 and exactly how you 00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:16.210 would design flag lots and then a new tool that we've 00:39:16.210 --> 00:39:17.840 introduced is a cluster 00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:21.570 subdivision tool and this allows flexibility and lot design 00:39:21.570 --> 00:39:22.920 and layout if 00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:26.880 if the developer protects sensitive lands and or open areas 00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:28.320 so let's say you 00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:32.289 have a site near a riparian area maybe it's a hundred acre 00:39:32.289 --> 00:39:33.480 site but really 00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:37.750 only 20 to 30 acres is developable the developer can 00:39:37.750 --> 00:39:39.079 propose a cluster 00:39:39.079 --> 00:39:43.329 subdivision to consolidate or cluster the development into 00:39:43.329 --> 00:39:44.400 one area of the 00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:48.750 site and and preserve the remainder of the site through 00:39:48.750 --> 00:39:50.079 either an easement or 00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:53.530 deed restriction or some other way to protect it in perpet 00:39:53.530 --> 00:39:56.239 uity and that would 00:39:56.239 --> 00:39:59.800 then open the door to smaller lot sizes to smaller setbacks 00:39:59.800 --> 00:40:00.840 essentially you're 00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:04.429 you're allowing more density for preserving open areas in 00:40:04.429 --> 00:40:05.679 the city and a 00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:08.500 lot of communities are doing this now especially in the 00:40:08.500 --> 00:40:09.519 western areas with 00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:14.519 hazard mitigation if you have a very high wildfire area you 00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:15.400 can preserve 00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:18.300 those areas and push the development away into other 00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:20.360 portions of the site and 00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:23.630 you're not you're not losing the density that you would 00:40:23.630 --> 00:40:24.920 have had otherwise but 00:40:24.920 --> 00:40:28.570 you're clustering it into a different area so Commissioner 00:40:28.570 --> 00:40:29.480 Smith saying you're 00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:35.000 reducing the setbacks you're making it more dense do you 00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:36.519 have an idea of how 00:40:36.519 --> 00:40:40.949 much yes scale what ratio that is to do that yeah so page 00:40:40.949 --> 00:40:42.400 133 there's a table 00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:46.360 that says what the cluster subdivision standards would be 00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:48.360 so the first you need 00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:51.909 at least three acres to do a cluster subdivision so there's 00:40:51.909 --> 00:40:52.719 a minimum there 00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:55.889 there's a block length you have to have at least a block 00:40:55.889 --> 00:40:57.159 length of six no more 00:40:57.159 --> 00:41:01.119 than 600 feet your lot size can be reduced to 2,500 square 00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:01.960 feet if you're 00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:05.320 doing a cluster subdivision your lot width can be up to 20 00:41:05.320 --> 00:41:06.800 feet and then your 00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:10.570 setbacks are outlined there as well so so we do set 00:41:10.570 --> 00:41:12.599 parameters and and again 00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:15.960 this is a draft I mean these numbers can be tweaked to 00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:17.159 reflect what's what's best 00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:20.880 for Denton but the idea is to say that the city will 00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:22.239 benefit more if you 00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:26.889 preserve this area that's sensitive then we so it's a trade 00:41:26.889 --> 00:41:28.199 -off you say if you 00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:31.150 preserve that area will allow you to have a smaller lots to 00:41:31.150 --> 00:41:32.199 to make the 00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:38.239 project pencil essentially I'll make a comment while we're 00:41:38.239 --> 00:41:39.300 stopped here on 00:41:39.300 --> 00:41:42.480 cluster subdivision I think it's a great idea we've talked 00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:43.400 about it numerous 00:41:43.400 --> 00:41:48.860 times here at before this Commission I guess an ask would 00:41:48.860 --> 00:41:50.000 be is if you are 00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:55.880 looking at the traffic utility design standards to see if 00:41:55.880 --> 00:41:57.920 these are possible 00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:01.539 because that's always been the problem in the past is there 00:42:01.539 --> 00:42:02.280 's not enough 00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:06.909 flexibility in our street designs our utility designs to be 00:42:06.909 --> 00:42:08.159 able to do those 00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:11.329 to meet the curves the maximum grades and those types of 00:42:11.329 --> 00:42:12.480 things so I just point 00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:15.130 that out while you all are reviewing this and if we're 00:42:15.130 --> 00:42:16.219 going to put it in the 00:42:16.219 --> 00:42:19.869 DDC here may want to look and talk with engineering about 00:42:19.869 --> 00:42:21.239 if if somebody does 00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:24.719 want to do these is there any flexibility that we have in 00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:25.000 our 00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:28.619 engineering requirements to make it possible yeah and that 00:42:28.619 --> 00:42:29.760 's a great point 00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:32.159 I mean we want to make sure if this is an available option 00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:33.840 that it's viable that 00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:36.920 people can actually do it that's why it hasn't been done 00:42:36.920 --> 00:42:40.079 today so Commissioner 00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:46.460 Beck thank you chair on a lot with says and these are 00:42:46.460 --> 00:42:47.679 minimum I understand that 00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:52.670 it's got a 20-foot minimum that's the width of my garage 00:42:52.670 --> 00:42:53.800 down here in the foot 00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:57.800 note it says this can be discussed to reduce even further 00:42:57.800 --> 00:42:58.760 so that just seems 00:42:58.760 --> 00:43:04.769 unreasonable how do you develop well yeah and that that may 00:43:04.769 --> 00:43:05.519 be a townhome 00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:09.820 product where you have a townhouse that's 20 to 30 feet but 00:43:09.820 --> 00:43:10.840 again that's 00:43:10.840 --> 00:43:13.340 the minimum and the developer is not going to create a 00:43:13.340 --> 00:43:14.400 subdivision that he 00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:17.920 can't build a product that to sell so like I said earlier 00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:19.079 we want to we want 00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:21.369 to get out of their way to say okay if you can make it work 00:43:21.369 --> 00:43:22.079 and sell something 00:43:22.079 --> 00:43:26.150 that meets all the other standards of the code go for it 00:43:26.150 --> 00:43:27.599 you know get creative 00:43:27.599 --> 00:43:30.260 but we're not going to say you can't do something if you 00:43:30.260 --> 00:43:31.639 can I don't know just 00:43:31.639 --> 00:43:35.960 in seeing feasible 20 feet I don't know it's small really 00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:38.079 okay it's small but 00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:43.679 10 ohms okay I didn't want to set a standard that right 00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:44.400 with something that 00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:47.010 would move and they're fluid I mean like I said that all 00:43:47.010 --> 00:43:48.079 this stuff is up for 00:43:48.079 --> 00:43:51.670 discussion we can change it and if 30 feet or 40 feet is 00:43:51.670 --> 00:43:52.800 more appropriate but 00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:56.179 that it's important to strike a balance between what's 00:43:56.179 --> 00:43:57.000 going to be an incentive 00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:03.360 to do this and what's what's not okay I would just add to 00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:05.559 your question is if 00:44:05.559 --> 00:44:10.199 you don't give the flexibility you certainly don't aren't 00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:12.119 allowed to leave 00:44:12.119 --> 00:44:15.289 areas undisturbed if you're gonna say they have to be 50 00:44:15.289 --> 00:44:15.960 foot minimum like a 00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:19.750 regular lot then there's no incentive to try to preserve 00:44:19.750 --> 00:44:21.280 the areas where you can 00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:23.960 get a density trade-off to say I'm gonna leave these areas 00:44:23.960 --> 00:44:25.599 undisturbed and in 00:44:25.599 --> 00:44:28.639 return I'm gonna be able to put and transfer that density 00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:29.559 to another area 00:44:29.559 --> 00:44:32.960 and have a smaller lot size to be able to accomplish you 00:44:32.960 --> 00:44:34.639 know the density part 00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:38.320 that that's where that is no I agree I you know I wouldn't 00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:39.400 want things a whole 00:44:39.400 --> 00:44:41.639 lot bigger but it just seems like 20 feet was so small but 00:44:41.639 --> 00:44:42.360 if you're saying 00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:44.900 that's a feasible it'd be a town home I don't see it being 00:44:44.900 --> 00:44:45.760 a single-family 00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:48.239 rather that didn't surprise me but I'll take your word for 00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:49.079 it because you do this 00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:53.039 for thank you yeah and again like I said it's striking that 00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:55.280 balance and in other 00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:57.900 communities we found that this type of approach really 00:44:57.900 --> 00:44:58.800 helps home values 00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:01.739 because once you have common open area and green space as 00:45:01.739 --> 00:45:02.440 part of your 00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:05.079 subdivision depending on how you lay out the design it's 00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:06.239 really an amenity for 00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:08.800 people to know that that area is preserved it's never going 00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:09.079 to be 00:45:09.079 --> 00:45:13.039 developed and it's a great amenity for folks so we just 00:45:13.039 --> 00:45:14.199 wanted to open the door 00:45:14.199 --> 00:45:17.369 to say this this is an option indent and if you want to do 00:45:17.369 --> 00:45:19.039 that you can there's 00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:21.699 standards you have to meet but we're not going to tell you 00:45:21.699 --> 00:45:22.599 no if you can make it 00:45:22.599 --> 00:45:26.789 work Commissioner Sullivan thank you I've never heard the 00:45:26.789 --> 00:45:27.519 term cluster 00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:30.460 subdivision is this the same thing as a zero lot line or a 00:45:30.460 --> 00:45:32.280 garden home that type 00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:37.960 of an area or what's no that the idea of a cluster setback 00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:40.519 on the sides I mean 00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:46.159 that's almost Eve Eve you know yeah so that the term 00:45:46.159 --> 00:45:47.320 cluster subdivision comes 00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:50.489 from it again looking at a whole side and laying it out as 00:45:50.489 --> 00:45:51.360 if as you would 00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:54.179 developing the entire thing as a subdivision and then 00:45:54.179 --> 00:45:55.039 taking that same 00:45:55.039 --> 00:45:58.590 number of houses and clustering them into one small area of 00:45:58.590 --> 00:45:59.400 the site and 00:45:59.400 --> 00:46:02.619 preserving everything else so that's where the term comes 00:46:02.619 --> 00:46:04.960 from and and one 00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:08.519 way to do that is to offer smaller lot sizes smaller set 00:46:08.519 --> 00:46:10.320 backs so the result 00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:14.599 may be smaller setbacks not zero lot line development but 00:46:14.599 --> 00:46:16.000 you may definitely 00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:18.320 have homes that are closer to the five feet what's the 00:46:18.320 --> 00:46:19.400 difference between that 00:46:19.400 --> 00:46:23.239 and a zero lot line where that's pretty much what you have 00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:24.079 is it well you have 00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:27.920 ten feet wrong on that or you know you'd have ten feet 00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:29.000 between buildings if each 00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:31.989 building had five feet or they'd be touching I mean that's 00:46:31.989 --> 00:46:32.920 that would be the 00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:36.380 difference and it's man oh there's I think it's called 00:46:36.380 --> 00:46:38.000 Villa of Corinth or 00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:41.400 something over in Corinth not didn't that the houses are 00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:43.320 narrow I don't not 00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:46.139 ten feet but they're in our twenty but they're narrow they 00:46:46.139 --> 00:46:48.519 're deep and they've 00:46:48.519 --> 00:46:52.789 got a very small side yard that they share and so and that 00:46:52.789 --> 00:46:54.119 's more of a what I 00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:57.340 would consider a zero lot line as opposed to having a ten 00:46:57.340 --> 00:46:58.480 foot setback on 00:46:58.480 --> 00:47:03.469 the sides I mean I'm just trying to get the idea of what a 00:47:03.469 --> 00:47:04.679 cluster or subdivision 00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:09.650 would look like so I I just want to clarify a couple of 00:47:09.650 --> 00:47:11.039 points on setbacks 00:47:11.039 --> 00:47:14.789 versus zero lot line versus cluster subdivision in cluster 00:47:14.789 --> 00:47:15.960 subdivision we 00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:21.179 are only talking about the lot don't picture a product on 00:47:21.179 --> 00:47:22.840 that lot the idea is 00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:27.340 that you can do just as many lots on the entire project 00:47:27.340 --> 00:47:28.719 site that you otherwise 00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:31.539 could but they're going to be much smaller than they they 00:47:31.539 --> 00:47:32.099 would in a 00:47:32.099 --> 00:47:35.440 traditional subdivision that captures the the cluster 00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:36.880 portion of it put more 00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:40.559 of your lots over there and they can be smaller that's fine 00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:41.639 and your setbacks 00:47:41.639 --> 00:47:45.059 might be reduced now for the product types you might be 00:47:45.059 --> 00:47:46.280 able to do a single 00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:49.940 family detached home if you get enough wiggle room on those 00:47:49.940 --> 00:47:51.119 setbacks it would 00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:54.480 be very skinny and narrow but I'm seeing products come out 00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:55.760 of production home 00:47:55.760 --> 00:48:00.110 builders that are that narrow for attached products we 00:48:00.110 --> 00:48:01.679 address this not in 00:48:01.679 --> 00:48:05.159 the cluster subdivision but rather in that first piece of 00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:06.119 the code on the 00:48:06.119 --> 00:48:08.840 zoning districts where we talk about how lot lines are 00:48:08.840 --> 00:48:10.559 measured how setbacks are 00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:13.590 measured if you're building an attached product like a town 00:48:13.590 --> 00:48:14.840 home you're sharing 00:48:14.840 --> 00:48:17.659 a common wall you don't have to meet the side setback 00:48:17.659 --> 00:48:20.239 obviously because your 00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:23.059 building is connected to the one next door to it so that 00:48:23.059 --> 00:48:24.119 would be the case you 00:48:24.119 --> 00:48:27.059 could do that product in a cluster subdivision and not have 00:48:27.059 --> 00:48:27.719 to meet that 00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:31.239 setback requirement but then would you run into the density 00:48:31.239 --> 00:48:31.920 problem that we've 00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:36.019 run into many times where you've got a lot of people a lot 00:48:36.019 --> 00:48:37.679 of cars and no place 00:48:37.679 --> 00:48:40.380 to put the cars there's still got a you still got to meet 00:48:40.380 --> 00:48:41.079 the parking 00:48:41.079 --> 00:48:46.789 requirements yeah nothing in cluster subdivision says you 00:48:46.789 --> 00:48:47.519 don't have to meet 00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:51.679 the parking requirements however we have introduced a new 00:48:51.679 --> 00:48:53.480 type of parking 00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:57.980 organization called an auto court which is actually within 00:48:57.980 --> 00:48:58.920 the cluster 00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:01.800 subdivision regulations that say all right if you're gonna 00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:02.400 organize a 00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:05.699 development where you've got a lot more people living 00:49:05.699 --> 00:49:07.440 closer together than a 00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:10.760 traditional single-family detached neighborhood you can 00:49:10.760 --> 00:49:11.960 have a shared auto 00:49:11.960 --> 00:49:15.610 court where everybody's parking over there they access that 00:49:15.610 --> 00:49:16.639 from an alley or 00:49:16.639 --> 00:49:20.599 something and then they walk to their homes that very short 00:49:20.599 --> 00:49:21.880 short walk patio 00:49:21.880 --> 00:49:26.690 homes cottage homes things like that so the main concept 00:49:26.690 --> 00:49:28.400 here is try to get out 00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:31.869 of the way of somebody doing some more creative missing 00:49:31.869 --> 00:49:33.599 middle housing types 00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:36.659 people are willing to live in much different places than 00:49:36.659 --> 00:49:37.800 they were 20 years 00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:41.400 ago and we need to be flexible for those types of products 00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:43.159 where appropriate 00:49:43.159 --> 00:49:47.599 thank you Mr. Sanchez 00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:09.059 you got your microphone on but it was getting that's how I 00:50:09.059 --> 00:50:10.000 see it it just 00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:12.940 gives you different options so that you can still be able 00:50:12.940 --> 00:50:13.599 to protect the 00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:16.489 environment and I think that's what you're saying you have 00:50:16.489 --> 00:50:17.280 all different 00:50:17.280 --> 00:50:21.869 options within that that smaller area to develop and I'm 00:50:21.869 --> 00:50:23.400 not sure that to the 00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:27.800 chairman's point it's never been used before here in Denton 00:50:27.800 --> 00:50:29.480 it's actually has 00:50:29.480 --> 00:50:33.590 not been used a lot in Texas communities in general based 00:50:33.590 --> 00:50:34.880 on ETJ requirements and 00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:37.800 lots of different reasons however you make the incentive 00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:39.400 strong enough to say 00:50:39.400 --> 00:50:41.349 all right we're willing to get out of the way on some of 00:50:41.349 --> 00:50:41.960 these stricter 00:50:41.960 --> 00:50:45.000 standards eventually you're gonna see one eventually you'll 00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:45.679 see some benefit 00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:48.260 that doesn't mean this is the only way to protect those 00:50:48.260 --> 00:50:49.719 sensitive areas you you 00:50:49.719 --> 00:50:53.000 have other ways of doing so 00:50:55.559 --> 00:51:00.239 Commissioner Smith thank you sure question I had early 00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:00.480 about the 00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:03.199 calculation of the density and all like stuff what sizes 00:51:03.199 --> 00:51:04.239 width all that good 00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:07.460 stuff great awesome if what I'm trying to I guess what's 00:51:07.460 --> 00:51:08.199 trying to ask earlier 00:51:08.199 --> 00:51:12.920 was this if that area and my maybe it maybe I'm screwed up 00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:13.440 because he's really 00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:16.440 would be a PD zone at that point in time wouldn't it wouldn 00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:17.800 't be a with this if 00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:21.760 you're talking about let's say it's a it's a six six lots 00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:22.880 per yeah six six 00:51:22.880 --> 00:51:29.349 units six building units per acre type area and that's the 00:51:29.349 --> 00:51:30.000 subdivision that 00:51:30.000 --> 00:51:32.260 we've got now and we're clustering does that mean that you 00:51:32.260 --> 00:51:33.119 still have to meet 00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:36.809 the dwelling unit requirement for the hundred hundred acre 00:51:36.809 --> 00:51:37.840 area but now you 00:51:37.840 --> 00:51:40.289 need to put all your unit requirement that can't go any 00:51:40.289 --> 00:51:41.400 more than what's 00:51:41.400 --> 00:51:44.010 already there but now it has to be done in a 30 unit area 00:51:44.010 --> 00:51:44.960 and we're removing 00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:47.150 some of the restrictions that normally would be there so 00:51:47.150 --> 00:51:48.619 that you can meet that 00:51:48.619 --> 00:51:51.909 unit that unit area require them on the zoning so that 00:51:51.909 --> 00:51:53.079 question makes sense 00:51:53.079 --> 00:51:57.409 because it didn't make sense to me so I jumbled my words it 00:51:57.409 --> 00:51:58.519 does make sense I 00:51:58.519 --> 00:52:02.219 knew what you were hinting at there and you got there so we 00:52:02.219 --> 00:52:04.480 do not say by 00:52:04.480 --> 00:52:09.030 district thou shall not exceed the following dwelling units 00:52:09.030 --> 00:52:10.239 per acre rather 00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:12.570 there are other parameters to get you there through 00:52:12.570 --> 00:52:13.800 building height through 00:52:13.800 --> 00:52:16.980 setback requirements through building coverage requirements 00:52:16.980 --> 00:52:17.880 your plan says an 00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:20.449 awful lot about density so it gets into the which zoning 00:52:20.449 --> 00:52:21.179 districts are 00:52:21.179 --> 00:52:24.780 appropriate where in the city now using a cluster subdiv 00:52:24.780 --> 00:52:26.199 ision the idea does not 00:52:26.199 --> 00:52:30.760 increase your density it shifts all of your lots to a small 00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:31.519 so that smaller 00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:35.019 portion taken in and of itself might have a higher density 00:52:35.019 --> 00:52:36.039 than otherwise 00:52:36.039 --> 00:52:40.019 allowed but the site in totality does not correct and in 00:52:40.019 --> 00:52:41.559 fact in order for a 00:52:41.559 --> 00:52:45.059 cluster subdivision to work you have to guarantee in perpet 00:52:45.059 --> 00:52:46.119 uity that it won't be 00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:50.480 subdivided again so there's parameters in here that say you 00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:51.039 got to sign the 00:52:51.039 --> 00:52:55.000 dotted line that says no so I'm gonna use and I'm gonna use 00:52:55.000 --> 00:52:55.719 current coding 00:52:55.719 --> 00:52:59.360 words because that's just what no now so on an nr4 area and 00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:00.400 a hundred acres 00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:03.320 you're saying there could be 400 units on this hundred acre 00:53:03.320 --> 00:53:04.559 area this cluster 00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:07.909 subdivision we're gonna now we're gonna reduce it by let's 00:53:07.909 --> 00:53:09.320 go down to 25 acres 00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:13.400 instead of 100 acres so you still can have at most 400 00:53:13.400 --> 00:53:14.760 units but that for you 00:53:14.760 --> 00:53:18.719 it's could be in a 25 acre area and the other 75 acres in 00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:20.559 perpetuity can never 00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:23.590 have a dwelling unit on it as well as what this is this is 00:53:23.590 --> 00:53:24.480 what this this 00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:29.519 cluster division yeah I'm getting the concept now keep in 00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:30.079 mind they still have 00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:40.239 to meet all the other standards so yeah and to keep in mind 00:53:40.239 --> 00:53:41.079 that they still have 00:53:41.079 --> 00:53:44.539 to meet all the other standards so as if they can make it 00:53:44.539 --> 00:53:46.320 work then yeah they can 00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:53.630 do up to the 400 units feasibility is a whole different 00:53:53.630 --> 00:53:54.800 standard just wanted to 00:53:54.800 --> 00:53:56.880 know the actual concept of it but thank you yeah and it's 00:53:56.880 --> 00:53:57.360 and it's also 00:53:57.360 --> 00:53:59.449 important to note that it's a lot cheaper for developers 00:53:59.449 --> 00:54:00.000 not to have to 00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:02.190 build all the infrastructure over a hundred acre site I 00:54:02.190 --> 00:54:02.840 mean if you can 00:54:02.840 --> 00:54:05.659 consolidate all your costs and resources into one area 00:54:05.659 --> 00:54:06.840 maybe the quality of the 00:54:06.840 --> 00:54:10.170 product will be higher because they have funds to allocate 00:54:10.170 --> 00:54:11.800 more to design and open 00:54:11.800 --> 00:54:17.019 space for things like that it's not required but it's 00:54:17.019 --> 00:54:18.679 possible that could 00:54:18.679 --> 00:54:21.599 happen so for those that are interested I did a subdivision 00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:22.320 like that here in 00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:25.210 the city of Denton it's over on the corner of El Paseo and 00:54:25.210 --> 00:54:26.079 Santa Monica it's 00:54:26.079 --> 00:54:28.440 on the southeast corner a little shadow Brook Village and 00:54:28.440 --> 00:54:29.400 that's probably as 00:54:29.400 --> 00:54:33.639 close as I can think of to what we're talking about here 00:54:33.639 --> 00:54:36.519 very small eight lots 00:54:36.519 --> 00:54:41.519 of people walking the walk before it was even caught by 00:54:41.519 --> 00:54:43.079 that's right great well 00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:50.289 any other any other questions on subdivision okay so the 00:54:50.289 --> 00:54:51.559 the last part of 00:54:51.559 --> 00:54:54.019 our presentation is next steps and then we're going to talk 00:54:54.019 --> 00:54:54.639 a little bit about 00:54:54.639 --> 00:54:57.809 the zoning map process that's that's currently underway and 00:54:57.809 --> 00:54:58.559 that's going to 00:54:58.559 --> 00:55:03.780 get really going here in the next month or so so next steps 00:55:03.780 --> 00:55:05.480 for as Tarek said 00:55:05.480 --> 00:55:07.650 we're making a consolidated draft so we've drafted all 00:55:07.650 --> 00:55:08.440 three parts of the 00:55:08.440 --> 00:55:12.400 code and now it's time to knit them all together and have 00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:14.199 one big document with 00:55:14.199 --> 00:55:17.880 everything in it and that's what the consolidated draft is 00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:19.880 so there's a date 00:55:19.880 --> 00:55:22.730 here that says comments for the consolidated draft by April 00:55:22.730 --> 00:55:24.000 26th the 00:55:24.000 --> 00:55:26.949 consolidated draft is going to get delivered sometime in 00:55:26.949 --> 00:55:28.559 May so if you have 00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:31.820 comments that you want in the consolidated draft we need 00:55:31.820 --> 00:55:32.480 those soon 00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:35.039 there's still more opportunities to comment after the 00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:36.360 consolidated draft but 00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:40.079 that's that's the deadline for that document you can submit 00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:40.880 comments on the 00:55:40.880 --> 00:55:45.139 website you see the URL there you can email comments to 00:55:45.139 --> 00:55:47.079 planning staff PZ at 00:55:47.079 --> 00:55:50.300 City of Den you can call the staff there's a lot of ways 00:55:50.300 --> 00:55:51.280 you can do that 00:55:51.280 --> 00:55:55.630 now the zoning map process is is directly related to the D 00:55:55.630 --> 00:55:56.619 DC update we 00:55:56.619 --> 00:56:00.389 have this new lineup of districts they have to be mapped on 00:56:00.389 --> 00:56:01.760 somewhere in the 00:56:01.760 --> 00:56:05.320 city if they're not on the map they don't apply and all 00:56:05.320 --> 00:56:06.400 these standards 00:56:06.400 --> 00:56:10.039 we've written don't matter so the the mapping process is 00:56:10.039 --> 00:56:10.800 currently underway 00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:14.440 there's a web page you can see there a screenshot of that 00:56:14.440 --> 00:56:15.039 that staff has 00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:18.219 prepared on the right hand side there's a link that will 00:56:18.219 --> 00:56:19.000 take you to an 00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:22.699 interactive map where you can click on any property in the 00:56:22.699 --> 00:56:24.039 city and it pulls up 00:56:24.039 --> 00:56:27.599 a window to say this is your existing zoning there's a link 00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:28.840 there to prove that 00:56:28.840 --> 00:56:32.570 you can click on to say okay what are my standards now and 00:56:32.570 --> 00:56:33.960 then there's a line 00:56:33.960 --> 00:56:36.389 there for the draft zoning so this is what we want the 00:56:36.389 --> 00:56:37.280 zoning or what we've 00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:41.510 proposed the zoning to be changed to and then you can click 00:56:41.510 --> 00:56:42.199 there and it will 00:56:42.199 --> 00:56:44.800 direct you to the drafts that we've that we've created to 00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:45.639 correlate those 00:56:45.639 --> 00:56:48.570 standards so this is a tool available to anybody in the 00:56:48.570 --> 00:56:50.039 city we really encourage 00:56:50.039 --> 00:56:53.519 you to use it it's really helpful staffs done a great job 00:56:53.519 --> 00:56:54.360 of making this 00:56:54.360 --> 00:56:59.820 interactive and user-friendly you can see here there's a 00:56:59.820 --> 00:57:01.519 there's a comment a 00:57:01.519 --> 00:57:04.739 section of the page if you just scroll down you can put 00:57:04.739 --> 00:57:06.159 your name your address 00:57:06.159 --> 00:57:09.050 and then here you see there's a zig existing zoning and 00:57:09.050 --> 00:57:10.440 preferred zoning and 00:57:10.440 --> 00:57:14.199 then you can say you agree you disagree and then there's a 00:57:14.199 --> 00:57:15.920 comment box so this 00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:19.010 is the opportunity for any resident in the city to say we 00:57:19.010 --> 00:57:20.000 think you got it 00:57:20.000 --> 00:57:24.000 wrong this is why we think you got it right this is why and 00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:25.239 that the city is 00:57:25.239 --> 00:57:28.409 going to start having a lot of feedback from the public 00:57:28.409 --> 00:57:30.400 this is a list of public 00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:34.650 open houses for just the zoning map process the first ones 00:57:34.650 --> 00:57:35.360 on Monday and 00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:40.349 then there's a series of them through May so attend these 00:57:40.349 --> 00:57:43.280 give your input this is 00:57:43.280 --> 00:57:46.670 a lot easier to to make your case for a zone change that 00:57:46.670 --> 00:57:48.199 you've always wanted 00:57:48.199 --> 00:57:50.860 without having to go through a big arduous process you just 00:57:50.860 --> 00:57:51.440 talk to staff 00:57:51.440 --> 00:57:56.000 submit a card and it may show up on the map so get involved 00:57:56.000 --> 00:57:56.599 there's plenty of 00:57:56.599 --> 00:58:02.059 opportunities to do that here in the city so with that are 00:58:02.059 --> 00:58:03.320 there any other 00:58:03.320 --> 00:58:07.440 questions or comments on anything that we've covered 00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:08.880 Commissioner Sullivan 00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:12.599 thank you chair I've got a couple questions regarding 00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:16.079 traffic in six point 00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:19.610 eight point nine talks about traffic calming devices it 00:58:19.610 --> 00:58:20.760 talks about the fact 00:58:20.760 --> 00:58:25.239 that they are put in at the same time as the street is 00:58:25.239 --> 00:58:27.000 there no allowance for 00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:30.699 those to be added at a later date and under certain you 00:58:30.699 --> 00:58:32.280 know what conditions 00:58:32.280 --> 00:58:40.530 could they be added yeah so do you have a page number for 00:58:40.530 --> 00:58:43.800 that reference page 69 00:58:46.079 --> 00:59:00.539 yeah so traffic sorry what was your question about it well 00:59:00.539 --> 00:59:00.840 it gives a you 00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:06.530 know a way to add those at the time the street yes is there 00:59:06.530 --> 00:59:08.400 a way to put those 00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:12.500 in after the fact in other words the street is longer more 00:59:12.500 --> 00:59:14.280 you know kids or 00:59:14.280 --> 00:59:18.090 screwball adults driving higher speeds and so we want to 00:59:18.090 --> 00:59:20.159 slow them down yeah to 00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:23.800 put you know the bumps in their bump outs and planners and 00:59:23.800 --> 00:59:24.760 meetings I'm gonna 00:59:24.760 --> 00:59:32.119 defer to Scott yeah so for the for everybody's benefit 00:59:32.119 --> 00:59:33.119 traffic calming 00:59:33.119 --> 00:59:36.400 devices things within the public right-of-way or the street 00:59:36.400 --> 00:59:37.639 generally that 00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:42.070 slow down traffic they can be as simple as bumping out the 00:59:42.070 --> 00:59:42.800 curb at an 00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:47.389 intersection things that visually to a driver make them 00:59:47.389 --> 00:59:49.639 feel constrained on 00:59:49.639 --> 00:59:52.949 street parking on both sides of the street is actually a 00:59:52.949 --> 00:59:54.039 traffic calming 00:59:54.039 --> 00:59:58.239 device because it seems constrained I'm not going to drive 00:59:58.239 --> 00:59:59.480 as fast the question 00:59:59.480 --> 01:00:02.320 before us you know obviously you want those things to 01:00:02.320 --> 01:00:03.079 happen while you're 01:00:03.079 --> 01:00:07.039 designing and putting in the infrastructure how do we retro 01:00:07.039 --> 01:00:07.239 fit 01:00:07.239 --> 01:00:10.840 existing development as development occurs it's challenging 01:00:10.840 --> 01:00:11.719 especially on 01:00:11.719 --> 01:00:15.050 infill you get one person in the middle of the block who's 01:00:15.050 --> 01:00:15.460 doing a 01:00:15.460 --> 01:00:18.719 redevelopment project are they required to calm that 01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:20.039 particular street if it 01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:24.679 doesn't exist probably not and so the question is what are 01:00:24.679 --> 01:00:25.719 are there public 01:00:25.719 --> 01:00:28.639 private partnerships are there business improvement 01:00:28.639 --> 01:00:31.119 improvement districts that 01:00:31.119 --> 01:00:33.480 want to pony up and address certain blocks are there 01:00:33.480 --> 01:00:34.239 neighborhoods that 01:00:34.239 --> 01:00:37.860 organize but I think there are engineering standards that 01:00:37.860 --> 01:00:38.400 would allow 01:00:38.400 --> 01:00:41.260 that to happen I'm just not sure how we would coordinate 01:00:41.260 --> 01:00:42.440 that with the DDC that's 01:00:42.440 --> 01:00:47.900 what why Scott's up here well and another piece of that is 01:00:47.900 --> 01:00:48.800 it that's really in our 01:00:48.800 --> 01:00:51.829 traffic criteria manuals and ultimately is gonna be the 01:00:51.829 --> 01:00:53.519 traffic engineer and and 01:00:53.519 --> 01:00:57.019 I think where this started and that's why I asked Tark to 01:00:57.019 --> 01:00:58.199 explain traffic 01:00:58.199 --> 01:01:03.739 calming devices when we think of speed bumps that is the 01:01:03.739 --> 01:01:06.239 last resort or 01:01:06.239 --> 01:01:11.699 ultimately is really not going to happen so excuse me our 01:01:11.699 --> 01:01:14.199 trucks yeah yeah it's 01:01:14.199 --> 01:01:16.920 it's just it's one of those issues so that's the first 01:01:16.920 --> 01:01:18.239 thing that people think 01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:21.800 of of traffic calming devices the intent of the code really 01:01:21.800 --> 01:01:22.679 is talking about 01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:25.860 bulb outs and where it is that you changed the design of 01:01:25.860 --> 01:01:26.960 the street to calm 01:01:26.960 --> 01:01:30.190 traffic and and so that's the intent of that rather than 01:01:30.190 --> 01:01:31.199 trying to come back and 01:01:31.199 --> 01:01:37.599 do that but there's so so it's mentioned in the area of new 01:01:37.599 --> 01:01:39.559 development but not 01:01:39.559 --> 01:01:43.679 in existing development correct is that the case that yes 01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:45.119 and and ultimately 01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:48.480 unless there's a street redesign then we're probably not 01:01:48.480 --> 01:01:49.519 going to achieve 01:01:49.519 --> 01:01:51.920 traffic calming devices and that can be done any number of 01:01:51.920 --> 01:01:53.679 ways through signals 01:01:53.679 --> 01:01:57.489 roundabouts etc even in existing where it is if we have 01:01:57.489 --> 01:01:58.800 adequate right away or 01:01:58.800 --> 01:02:02.639 to do some other things okay along the same lines on page 01:02:02.639 --> 01:02:05.599 73 goes into vehicle 01:02:05.599 --> 01:02:08.420 trips and less than a hundred daily trips and a hundred to 01:02:08.420 --> 01:02:09.400 a thousand daily 01:02:09.400 --> 01:02:14.179 vehicle trips and blah blah blah and my question is we've 01:02:14.179 --> 01:02:15.800 again something that 01:02:15.800 --> 01:02:20.960 we've had to deal with on a regular basis is that we have a 01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:21.960 development going 01:02:21.960 --> 01:02:25.760 in there is an you know a street that's designated whatever 01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:28.159 and that means that 01:02:28.159 --> 01:02:32.920 there can be X number of thousands of cars going on that 01:02:32.920 --> 01:02:34.280 street so the 01:02:34.280 --> 01:02:38.400 question is well how many vehicles do we have we don't know 01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:39.760 how many vehicles 01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:42.650 going to be coming on the new development into that street 01:02:42.650 --> 01:02:43.119 we don't 01:02:43.119 --> 01:02:48.090 know so what's the point of having these numbers here if 01:02:48.090 --> 01:02:49.920 our traffic people don't 01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:54.289 know on a regular basis how many cars go up and down Ryan 01:02:54.289 --> 01:02:56.840 Road and how many cars 01:02:56.840 --> 01:03:00.260 going to be added to that with the development off of Ryan 01:03:00.260 --> 01:03:02.079 Road and so is 01:03:02.079 --> 01:03:06.750 there any place in this new stuff that's going to give us 01:03:06.750 --> 01:03:08.159 that information or 01:03:08.159 --> 01:03:13.130 require that to be done before development is put in yes 01:03:13.130 --> 01:03:15.360 and yes so the 01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:19.320 next page which is six point eight point nine speaks to a T 01:03:19.320 --> 01:03:20.679 IA or some 01:03:20.679 --> 01:03:23.340 developments may be as simple as just an analysis a basic 01:03:23.340 --> 01:03:24.400 analysis of what that 01:03:24.400 --> 01:03:28.230 that development is going to generate in trips what we're 01:03:28.230 --> 01:03:29.559 attempting to do on the 01:03:29.559 --> 01:03:32.909 front side of the model is is have at least an evaluation 01:03:32.909 --> 01:03:34.039 of what it is that 01:03:34.039 --> 01:03:37.619 that that impact is going to be of the development and then 01:03:37.619 --> 01:03:38.639 what we have for 01:03:38.639 --> 01:03:43.360 infrastructure today or what it may cause to the future so 01:03:43.360 --> 01:03:44.880 absolutely we have 01:03:44.880 --> 01:03:49.369 that and we're requesting that of developers when it is 01:03:49.369 --> 01:03:50.159 that we see that 01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:54.130 impact so we try to do a pre-development meeting before we 01:03:54.130 --> 01:03:55.280 get to this point to 01:03:55.280 --> 01:03:59.480 say it looks as if it appears as if this is going to have 01:03:59.480 --> 01:04:01.039 an impact these are the 01:04:01.039 --> 01:04:04.400 documents that we'd like to see before and as we go through 01:04:04.400 --> 01:04:05.960 the design phase of 01:04:05.960 --> 01:04:09.130 this so that way we're not suggesting that they build this 01:04:09.130 --> 01:04:09.940 first street when 01:04:09.940 --> 01:04:13.280 they may need this first street well that's all really good 01:04:13.280 --> 01:04:15.199 however at what 01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:19.769 point is the city required to do something along the same 01:04:19.769 --> 01:04:21.000 lines again if 01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:25.320 a developments coming in off Orion Road and the city has 01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:26.920 never done a traffic 01:04:26.920 --> 01:04:30.750 survey to know how many cars go up and down Ryan Road how's 01:04:30.750 --> 01:04:31.719 that going to 01:04:31.719 --> 01:04:35.900 impact it or if you're going down up and down Hickory or 01:04:35.900 --> 01:04:37.519 Bonnie Bray I mean 01:04:37.519 --> 01:04:40.800 there's number of streets that are in terrible condition 01:04:40.800 --> 01:04:42.280 and nobody knows how 01:04:42.280 --> 01:04:45.460 many cars travel on them because nobody puts out the cord 01:04:45.460 --> 01:04:47.239 or the whatever pick 01:04:47.239 --> 01:04:50.500 out the cars to then say this is what needs to be done and 01:04:50.500 --> 01:04:51.320 we can't add 01:04:51.320 --> 01:04:55.139 development on this street until those things are done and 01:04:55.139 --> 01:04:56.260 we're actually in 01:04:56.260 --> 01:04:59.989 the process of doing that so our city engineer through 01:04:59.989 --> 01:05:01.639 through this summer and 01:05:01.639 --> 01:05:06.340 really in alignment with this we're looking at evaluating 01:05:06.340 --> 01:05:07.000 all of those 01:05:07.000 --> 01:05:09.639 traffic patterns because we know that that we have 01:05:09.639 --> 01:05:11.239 development that that is 01:05:11.239 --> 01:05:14.710 ultimately ending up in places that we may not have planned 01:05:14.710 --> 01:05:16.119 to the past so are 01:05:16.119 --> 01:05:18.940 we putting our capital dollars in the right direction so 01:05:18.940 --> 01:05:19.960 then we can have that 01:05:19.960 --> 01:05:22.880 that master plan as how it is that we look at where we're 01:05:22.880 --> 01:05:24.000 gonna go what we're 01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:28.090 going to do so we actually are doing that I think they've 01:05:28.090 --> 01:05:29.039 done some preliminary 01:05:29.039 --> 01:05:32.570 work already and they have intentions of either through an 01:05:32.570 --> 01:05:34.440 RFP process having 01:05:34.440 --> 01:05:37.340 that done as well as we're gonna collect this on individual 01:05:37.340 --> 01:05:38.840 developments so to 01:05:38.840 --> 01:05:42.010 the past we may not have done this comprehensively today we 01:05:42.010 --> 01:05:42.880 are so we're 01:05:42.880 --> 01:05:46.050 looking a little broader view of what's what's happening 01:05:46.050 --> 01:05:47.159 where it's happening 01:05:47.159 --> 01:05:50.449 and then how it's going to impact the city overall thank 01:05:50.449 --> 01:05:53.199 you yes sir 01:06:01.039 --> 01:06:06.250 anybody else I've got one I was just reading here in 01:06:06.250 --> 01:06:10.159 between on page 135 on 01:06:10.159 --> 01:06:15.869 C one private streets a this has been the policy in the 01:06:15.869 --> 01:06:18.159 city of Denton for as 01:06:18.159 --> 01:06:21.329 long as I can remember that all gated communities have to 01:06:21.329 --> 01:06:22.400 be private streets 01:06:22.400 --> 01:06:25.960 yeah those private streets have to be put in to city 01:06:25.960 --> 01:06:27.159 standards and they have 01:06:27.159 --> 01:06:30.739 to be inspected and they're done just like a city street so 01:06:30.739 --> 01:06:33.199 the question is is 01:06:33.199 --> 01:06:37.030 it not possibility to have some discussion about those 01:06:37.030 --> 01:06:38.079 streets being 01:06:38.079 --> 01:06:45.469 public rather than private because when I've done some of 01:06:45.469 --> 01:06:46.400 this stuff before 01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:50.960 private street subdivisions it's a big hindrance to people 01:06:50.960 --> 01:06:53.719 the possible cost to 01:06:53.719 --> 01:06:56.820 do those streets but there's a big demand for people that 01:06:56.820 --> 01:06:58.000 would like to live in a 01:06:58.000 --> 01:07:01.440 gated community utterly people single people they go to 01:07:01.440 --> 01:07:02.360 apartments with the 01:07:02.360 --> 01:07:05.440 big fences around them but they'd rather have a home but 01:07:05.440 --> 01:07:06.599 they want the security 01:07:06.599 --> 01:07:11.000 portion however people don't develop those very often 01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:11.800 because streets all 01:07:11.800 --> 01:07:16.320 have to be private and HOA with possibly big fees so the 01:07:16.320 --> 01:07:19.159 confusion and question 01:07:19.159 --> 01:07:21.239 I've always had it if you have to put it into city 01:07:21.239 --> 01:07:23.079 standards why can't it be a 01:07:23.079 --> 01:07:27.659 public street and it may be an egress issue and that might 01:07:27.659 --> 01:07:28.599 be something legal 01:07:28.599 --> 01:07:31.420 has to talk about but it's just something to throw on the 01:07:31.420 --> 01:07:31.960 table for 01:07:31.960 --> 01:07:36.300 discussion if there's some consideration for those to be 01:07:36.300 --> 01:07:37.800 public streets in a 01:07:37.800 --> 01:07:41.760 gated community to meet a need in our community that 01:07:41.760 --> 01:07:43.559 typically is not addressed 01:07:43.559 --> 01:07:46.409 because of those issues we had one here before us within 01:07:46.409 --> 01:07:48.679 the last 30 60 days I 01:07:48.679 --> 01:07:51.559 don't say it's the villas of piney something that's back in 01:07:51.559 --> 01:07:52.079 there behind 01:07:52.079 --> 01:07:55.800 it would bank it's not gated but it's private streets big 01:07:55.800 --> 01:07:56.679 issue between them 01:07:56.679 --> 01:08:00.500 and development to trying to go to the east of them so just 01:08:00.500 --> 01:08:01.559 want to throw that 01:08:01.559 --> 01:08:04.849 out is we're talking about that if that's something that's 01:08:04.849 --> 01:08:05.760 can be further 01:08:05.760 --> 01:08:10.400 discussed long question no it you Chairman you have well 01:08:10.400 --> 01:08:11.960 articulated the 01:08:11.960 --> 01:08:15.360 trade-offs between doing gated community development and 01:08:15.360 --> 01:08:17.359 traditional community 01:08:17.359 --> 01:08:21.060 development and there are trade-offs and that's a big one 01:08:21.060 --> 01:08:22.479 for you but what is the 01:08:22.479 --> 01:08:26.430 one thing that maintains a gated community status as being 01:08:26.430 --> 01:08:26.960 a gated 01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:30.640 community it's the ability to go in and out of it and when 01:08:30.640 --> 01:08:31.840 that gate is removed 01:08:31.840 --> 01:08:35.390 ultimately at some point and streets are ultimately 01:08:35.390 --> 01:08:37.600 dedicated back to the city 01:08:37.600 --> 01:08:41.060 it'd be nice if those streets were built to city standards 01:08:41.060 --> 01:08:42.159 and that is they are 01:08:42.159 --> 01:08:44.880 built to city yeah they are and they're continued to be 01:08:44.880 --> 01:08:47.039 required to do that the 01:08:47.039 --> 01:08:50.069 question is why why can't the city help foot the bill for 01:08:50.069 --> 01:08:51.720 some of that right and 01:08:51.720 --> 01:08:55.899 and and no potentially share some of the ownership and well 01:08:55.899 --> 01:08:57.199 that I think the real 01:08:57.199 --> 01:08:59.760 issue is probably a legal issue is if it's a public street 01:08:59.760 --> 01:09:00.520 it has to be open 01:09:00.520 --> 01:09:04.090 to the public versus just the people that have the code to 01:09:04.090 --> 01:09:05.439 the access gate and 01:09:05.439 --> 01:09:08.100 that may be the issue but I know the streets and all the 01:09:08.100 --> 01:09:09.119 utilities are put 01:09:09.119 --> 01:09:13.680 into city standards but it's it's a hindrance to market 01:09:13.680 --> 01:09:14.680 those properties and 01:09:14.680 --> 01:09:17.770 try to do those to people when you say it's a private 01:09:17.770 --> 01:09:19.319 street and the question 01:09:19.319 --> 01:09:22.289 is well when we have to redo the street in 20 years and it 01:09:22.289 --> 01:09:23.079 costs a hundred 01:09:23.079 --> 01:09:25.760 thousand dollars who has to pay for that and it's the 01:09:25.760 --> 01:09:27.239 people that live in there 01:09:27.239 --> 01:09:30.819 because it's a private street right so the question just to 01:09:30.819 --> 01:09:31.680 throw out for 01:09:31.680 --> 01:09:34.899 discussion is if there's a possibility that instead of them 01:09:34.899 --> 01:09:35.960 always having to be 01:09:35.960 --> 01:09:39.800 a private street if they can truly be a public street then 01:09:39.800 --> 01:09:41.199 the HOA dues that are 01:09:41.199 --> 01:09:45.159 in those can be much more reasonable and there are more 01:09:45.159 --> 01:09:46.760 market option for people 01:09:46.760 --> 01:09:50.460 to look at versus gosh am I gonna have ten thousand dollars 01:09:50.460 --> 01:09:51.479 or five thousand 01:09:51.479 --> 01:09:54.699 dollars 20 years from now when it comes time to redo the 01:09:54.699 --> 01:09:55.239 streets 01:09:55.239 --> 01:10:00.319 Victor was itching to respond to that question 01:10:04.319 --> 01:10:07.600 but I think the reality is is if it's private it's private 01:10:07.600 --> 01:10:08.560 I mean that's the 01:10:08.560 --> 01:10:12.060 bottom line and and where that's at in the law I don't know 01:10:12.060 --> 01:10:13.119 but we absolutely 01:10:13.119 --> 01:10:16.520 have captured the comment and we can we can follow up 01:10:16.520 --> 01:10:18.000 thanks for letting me make 01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:22.359 the comment thank you for anything commissioner Sullivan 01:10:22.359 --> 01:10:22.840 just to add to 01:10:22.840 --> 01:10:25.380 your point I mean it's kind of like the street lights the 01:10:25.380 --> 01:10:26.640 builder comes in 01:10:26.640 --> 01:10:28.869 they've got a certain street light they could put in they 01:10:28.869 --> 01:10:30.000 put the street out in 01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:32.869 and then they deed it over to the city and that's the city 01:10:32.869 --> 01:10:34.720 street light one I 01:10:34.720 --> 01:10:38.109 do the same thing with a street I'm sure but I'm sure the 01:10:38.109 --> 01:10:39.920 homeowners get a cut on 01:10:39.920 --> 01:10:42.890 their tax rate because they have a private street don't 01:10:42.890 --> 01:10:44.119 they you know they 01:10:44.119 --> 01:10:52.539 do no they do not it's the same for everybody thanks for 01:10:52.539 --> 01:10:53.039 let me ask the 01:10:53.039 --> 01:10:56.500 question Commissioner Ellis thank you chair I'll just throw 01:10:56.500 --> 01:10:58.760 out my two cents I 01:10:58.760 --> 01:11:03.409 understand what you're saying but it's a private street so 01:11:03.409 --> 01:11:04.640 if it's a private 01:11:04.640 --> 01:11:09.119 street it's hard to use public funds and then it's only 01:11:09.119 --> 01:11:10.840 allowed for these 75 01:11:10.840 --> 01:11:15.359 homes that are in there so I I mean I I assume that's why 01:11:15.359 --> 01:11:16.279 it's written as it's 01:11:16.279 --> 01:11:20.239 written because it is a private street and so if you want 01:11:20.239 --> 01:11:21.560 it private you want 01:11:21.560 --> 01:11:25.520 it gated and you only want access to those 75 homes then I 01:11:25.520 --> 01:11:27.399 think I mean it's 01:11:27.399 --> 01:11:30.970 a tough argument to have as to why public funding would be 01:11:30.970 --> 01:11:31.880 allowed to be 01:11:31.880 --> 01:11:38.180 used for 75 homeowners and I'd love a response for that you 01:11:38.180 --> 01:11:38.880 know it's coming 01:11:38.880 --> 01:11:45.340 right well to Commissioner Stelvin's point you those people 01:11:45.340 --> 01:11:46.300 pay exactly the 01:11:46.300 --> 01:11:49.329 same rates on all their utility bills all their fees is 01:11:49.329 --> 01:11:50.760 everybody else but 01:11:50.760 --> 01:11:53.939 however they don't get the services back in their subdiv 01:11:53.939 --> 01:11:55.359 ision so they pay twice 01:11:55.359 --> 01:11:59.069 because it is private they have to pay not only the city 01:11:59.069 --> 01:12:00.479 fees but if there is 01:12:00.479 --> 01:12:03.430 an issue in then they got to come out of pocket themselves 01:12:03.430 --> 01:12:04.640 to pay for that so 01:12:04.640 --> 01:12:11.149 really they subsidize the city's streets and not the public 01:12:11.149 --> 01:12:11.600 not the private ones 01:12:11.600 --> 01:12:14.840 so they're paying for things that they don't get 01:12:14.840 --> 01:12:17.840 Commissioner Ellis okay so 01:12:17.840 --> 01:12:21.020 maybe then that's another avenue of discussion of how do 01:12:21.020 --> 01:12:22.680 how do we maybe 01:12:22.680 --> 01:12:26.750 help that versus just because the other thing does define 01:12:26.750 --> 01:12:27.960 doesn't make sense to 01:12:27.960 --> 01:12:31.609 me which is why we have to define it there I'm just gonna 01:12:31.609 --> 01:12:32.960 raise a cautionary 01:12:32.960 --> 01:12:38.960 flag this may be getting off the germane 01:12:38.960 --> 01:12:42.479 notice thank you yeah well thank you again for let me make 01:12:42.479 --> 01:12:44.520 the comment and 01:12:44.520 --> 01:12:48.159 post a question for consideration 01:12:54.640 --> 01:13:03.800 any other questions for we any other questions on this 01:13:03.800 --> 01:13:04.520 under we have 01:13:04.520 --> 01:13:10.229 additional items are we wrapping up this was it okay I 01:13:10.229 --> 01:13:12.520 wanted to say how excited 01:13:12.520 --> 01:13:15.840 I was to see some some students in the room that was mad 01:13:15.840 --> 01:13:17.239 sent zoning to that 01:13:17.239 --> 01:13:20.869 that is very exciting and very unusual for our line of work 01:13:20.869 --> 01:13:22.359 so I appreciate you 01:13:22.359 --> 01:13:30.420 coming today I was going to ask since we've stopped why are 01:13:30.420 --> 01:13:31.159 you all here are 01:13:31.159 --> 01:13:35.239 you here for a school project or good 01:13:43.359 --> 01:13:45.439 nonetheless we're glad you're here yes thank you all for 01:13:45.439 --> 01:13:47.720 coming out it's good 01:13:47.720 --> 01:13:50.159 to see young people come out and be a part of the process 01:13:50.159 --> 01:13:51.000 so thanks for taking 01:13:51.000 --> 01:13:56.560 time out of your day to come for whatever the reason is so 01:13:56.560 --> 01:13:57.800 with that if 01:13:57.800 --> 01:14:02.250 there aren't any other questions we'll close this at 520 01:14:02.250 --> 01:14:05.479 record time today 01:14:22.000 --> 01:14:24.039 you