WEBVTT

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meeting for February 21st 2018. This meeting has been duly

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posted and we do

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have a quorum present. Now we'll call us to order at 4 0 5.

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Our first order of

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business will be to receive clarification of agenda items.

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Does

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anybody have a question on the minutes? Any changes?

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Okay, how about the consent agenda?

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Okay, that's Shandrin. Shandrin, will you come forward? We

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've got a

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question on the consent agenda item A. Commissioner Ellis.

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Thank you chair. Hi

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Shandrin. Hey just real quick clarification. It's divided

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in two. Is it

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one development and they're platting it? There's one owner

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for the two lots.

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Okay. But they're currently developing only one lot at this

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time. And that's the one we

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heard I think right when we did the rezone there I think? I

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can't recall the

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rezoning request at this moment but it's likely that that's

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you only heard that

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portion. Okay and it's lot one is the one they're

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developing or lot two? The

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applicant is actually here. Do you mind answering that

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question? It's it's it's

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lot one block A. Okay, okay. That's effectively what I

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thought but I just want to

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clarify. Thank you. Anybody else? Anybody else have a

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question on this item?

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Mr. Sanchez? Okay.

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Just kind of an announcement for both here in our work

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session and for our

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public meeting at 630. The item for individual

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consideration, the criteria

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manual changes for drainage and transportation. Those have

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been delayed

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and will be coming back for work session and and then

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presentation and voting on

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for March the 7th. That will take us to public hearings

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section. Item A, that'd be

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Ron.

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Thank you chair, members of the Commission. This item is

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for a rezoning

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of a property located on University Drive about 1,500 feet

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west of I-35. The

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proposed zoning is to go from NR2, neighborhood residential

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2, to RCCD,

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regional center commercial downtown of approximately 88.7

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acres. It's the old

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former location of the Selwyn school site. So the property

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owner has obtained

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or acquired the property and is looking to rezone as such.

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The future land use

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map as shown identifies the area of as of having two future

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land designation. One

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is business innovation, which business innovation is

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intended to develop large

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track well-planned corporate employment park type

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developments with supporting

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uses such as retail, hotels, and residential units. Primary

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uses include

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office, research, development, and light manufacturing. The

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property also has a

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future land use designation of industrial commerce, which

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is further south or the

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southern portion of the property. And that industrial

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commerce is intended to

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be predominantly for both high or heavy and light

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manufacturing with wholesale

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and distribution uses as well. So this slide here

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illustrates what the proposed

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zoning is. Obviously currently it's NR2. NR2 is primarily a

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residential zoning

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district which allows two units per acre. The proposed

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zoning RCCD allows for more

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mixed-use type uses, which is consistent with the future

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land use designation of

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business innovation. Hey Ron, can you go back to that slide

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? Was there an

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opportunity to reach out to I guess what might be a

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separate property owner for

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the little piece of NR2 that's going to be left out to see

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if they wanted to be

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rezoned also? We asked the applicant and I'll leave that to

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the applicant to

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respond to. We weren't able to get that property owner to

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come forward.

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Thank you. Just a quick compatibility research of the area.

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To the north west

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is NR2, single-family. There's an established development

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there, large lot

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development. To the north east is RCCD with commercial and

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industrial uses

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along I-35 just east of the railroad tracks. To the east

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and south is

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primarily undeveloped with ICE, industrial center

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employment.

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And then to the west is ICG, primarily office building, the

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Westgate Business

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Park. It's supposed to be here but the aerial didn't pick

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it up so that's

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the general location. There's also gas well on the western

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boundary right here.

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It's also important to note that there is also a gas well

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within the subject

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site itself. So in this general location. Commissioner Beck

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. Thank you Chair. ICG

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states that it's an area where they can build professional

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offices and I think

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this RCCD pretty much says the same thing. I think what

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this is it's zone ICG

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but there are professional offices currently. This is more

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of an existing

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use is what's on the ground currently. Okay. So I'll double

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check if ICG permits

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offices but this slide here was to illustrate that the Den

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Wise realtor

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office building is here and there are some offices in this

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general vicinity to

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west. Okay we didn't have anything to compare RCCD with ICG

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so can you just

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roughly briefly tell us what can be built on ICG? Sure I

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can do it. I don't have it

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with me but we can go get right now.

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So ICG is your your heaviest industrial or heaviest dense

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intensity type land or

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zoning district. ICG permits you know heavy manufacturing

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with an SUP. There's

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light manufacturing that's permitted. We have well

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warehouse retail that's

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permitted with this SUP. As far as offices it's also

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permitted in ICG. Offices are

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permitted in the ICG. Retail is permitted as long as it's

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part of a gas station or

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quick vehicle service use. Let's see here motels are not or

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hotels are not

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permitted. Obviously a lot of the residential uses are not

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permitted in

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ICG. Okay thank you. So staff did an analysis of course of

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the zoning request

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and it is a large piece of property. It's currently planted

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as lot one of the

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Selwyn School addition. NR2 current zoning district is not

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consistent or is

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inconsistent with the future land use primarily because it

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's residential

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zoning. However the RCCD is a more suitable more

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appropriate zoning

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district that's consistent with the future land use

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designation and again it

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allows for the intent of the business innovation which is

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mixed use

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development, offices, retail and that sort. Also any future

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development that is to

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be built south or east of the development or even west will

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have to be

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comply with that is with the buffering and screening

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requirements of the DDC. So

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here's the RCCD. I went through this really quickly.

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Professional offices are

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permitted. Research facilities, light manufacturing, retail

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warehouse with a

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limitation of trade school is also permitted. Multi-family

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is permitted with

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a specific use permit or if it's part of a mixed use

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development. So you can see

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that these uses as it is compared to a business innovation

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it fits with what

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the future land use designation is stating should be. So

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with that staff is

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also looking at the mobility plan in the in regards of

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where this

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development will access will be accessed and that's

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primarily on University Drive

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380. As we all know 380 is a primary arterial. It's a six

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lane with a 135 foot

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right away. It will have the capacity to handle any

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development that comes into

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this development as far as mixed use development or that

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sort of type of uses.

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Staff did send out notification. This was first published

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back in November of last

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year and as you all know this item has been continued for

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some time and the

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reason for that is the applicant had made several attempts

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to meet with the

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razor company. The razor company received the notice and

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submitted a response in

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opposition and that because they own primarily most of the

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area approximately

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60% they are going to trigger or require that the City

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Council have in favor of

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this rezoning would have to have a super majority.

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Commissioner Ellis. Thank you

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Chair. I noticed on the notification from razor that they

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were opposed to it but

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there is no reason. Do we know? I have not had the

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opportunity to talk to the razor

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company but I do know that the applicant has had maybe one

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or two meetings with

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the representative and they may be able to provide that

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information to the

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Commission during the public hearing. Commissioner Beck.

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Thanks Chair. To answer

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that I did personally call the guy on this and his concern

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is that he didn't

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feel this zoning was going to be appropriate for all the

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industrial uses

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in there. In fact he was sure that nobody would want to

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come into the ICE areas

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next to it because of the type of development he wanted to

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do. So that's

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I'm not gonna speak for him and I said he actually said he

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saw a concept plan

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from the developer. I said oh well that's more than we've

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got and would he be

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willing to share that and he said he would. Said he'd send

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me an email on it

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and I invited him to come to the public meeting and I he

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forgot there was even

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gonna be a public meeting night even though he received the

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deal so I don't

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know what's gonna go on there but he just felt like the

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zoning wasn't

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appropriate for that area. Basically that's it. That it was

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gonna have a negative

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impact on their property that is something differently. For

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what it's worth. Okay. With

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staff's analysis staff is recommending approval of the

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zoning change request

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as it conforms with the criteria with in the DDC as well as

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the DEM plan 2030.

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Commissioner Rozelle. Thank you Chair. First of all that's

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the first time I've

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seen the new sign. It looks good. It looks bigger and more

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established so much

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bigger. That's a good thing so well done on that. I haven't

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turned out to see that

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sign so that's awesome. More to the point there was at one

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point a deed or title

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restriction on this land to be a school or revert back to

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didn't ISD if someone

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lost it. Has that been resolved or is that even a matter

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that we should. I don't

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think that's something we can consider. I mean if you want

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further

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clarification the applicant may be able to fill you in but

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as far as the zoning.

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Yeah data restrictions don't. That's nothing that we would

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address at this

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commission. Thanks. Good question. Commissioner Back. Thank

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you Chair. On our

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backup material on I guess it's first page at the bottom it

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says there's an

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existing 10-inch public sewer main on the property which

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cannot be encroached

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upon by trees or buildings. Can you show us on the map

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where that is because it

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didn't give any indication where. Yeah I don't have a good

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map that showed that.

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Let me go back to the area. You can get us in the ballpark.

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Yeah here we go. I

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believe the sewer line comes south here and then heads west

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in this general

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vicinity makes its way up and then over again in this

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direction. So it's probably

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so the area I'm sorry to cut you off there the the area

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that we're talking

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about if there's an existing I mean sewer line then there

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has to be an

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easement they just can't build or plant trees within that

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easement. Okay okay.

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Got you. Thank you.

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Any other questions for Ron? Okay thank you.

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We'll move us to item B. Haley. All right this is case Z 18

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-1 the Razor

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Ranch Marketplace residential development. As just an

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overview the

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entire area outlined in black is the 410 acres that compr

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ise the Razor Ranch

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Overlay District. That's been in place since 2007. The

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subject property is a

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subset of that it's the area outlined here in yellow and it

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's about 40 acres

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just north of the Walmart and Academy that exists at the

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Razor Ranch

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Marketplace. The request before us tonight is to consider

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an amendment to

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the overlay district standards to provide development

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standards and

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criteria for residential development within that 40 acres.

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It's just a little

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bit more background Razor Ranch is comprised of two general

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areas the

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north side of 380 being the marketplace the southern side

00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:42.519
being the south campus

00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:45.470
that consists of the town center and other mixed-use

00:15:45.470 --> 00:15:47.600
development. Within the

00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:50.490
marketplace it's further subdivided into three general

00:15:50.490 --> 00:15:52.480
areas. RR2 being the

00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:57.610
area located at Bonnie Bray and 380. RR3 being some of the

00:15:57.610 --> 00:15:59.000
larger bigger box

00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:02.419
stores on the I'm sorry on the western side of the property

00:16:02.419 --> 00:16:04.240
. Both of those areas

00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:08.210
have standards that have been in place since roughly 2010.

00:16:08.210 --> 00:16:09.519
That's exhibit C D

00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:13.519
and E of the overlay itself and then the third area would

00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:14.740
be the residential so

00:16:14.740 --> 00:16:17.100
the area that we're looking at tonight which up to this

00:16:17.100 --> 00:16:17.879
point has had no

00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:23.750
development standards put in place for it. This 40 acres

00:16:23.750 --> 00:16:24.840
has a split zoning

00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:27.879
about 16 acres on the north side is zoned in R3 the

00:16:27.879 --> 00:16:29.519
remaining 24 acres is

00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:34.690
zoned in our MU 12. To kind of delve into what they

00:16:34.690 --> 00:16:36.159
presented the standards that

00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:39.389
they're proposed were provided in your backup but in

00:16:39.389 --> 00:16:40.840
general what they're

00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:44.759
proposing for the NR 3 area they're proposing to limit the

00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:46.039
permitted uses to

00:16:46.039 --> 00:16:50.519
single-family detached dwellings. The NRMU 12 portion they

00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:51.399
would allow

00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:54.389
single-family attached single-family or town homes or what

00:16:54.389 --> 00:16:57.240
they call big houses.

00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:00.610
Commissioner Ellis. Thank you chair. Okay on that note big

00:17:00.610 --> 00:17:01.600
houses since that's the

00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:04.619
first time I've heard that term and I know it's defined

00:17:04.619 --> 00:17:06.359
later on. Do we have

00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:09.470
any of those in the city currently? No it's a unique use

00:17:09.470 --> 00:17:10.720
that Razor defined in

00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:13.440
the overlay. It's essentially multifamily that would look

00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:14.279
like a large home from

00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:18.519
the outside is what that would boil down to. So that is

00:17:18.519 --> 00:17:20.680
their definition? Yes it's

00:17:20.680 --> 00:17:23.240
correct. I believe it's a concept they saw in another part

00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:23.880
of the country the

00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:26.400
developer did and he just thought it would be a unique idea

00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:27.039
if they could

00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:28.920
find a place to incorporate it they just wanted to make

00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:29.519
that available.

00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:34.470
Understood okay thank you. I do want to point out here on

00:17:34.470 --> 00:17:36.299
what was appendix one

00:17:36.299 --> 00:17:39.359
to the standards they provided the area shaded in gray is

00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:40.279
within the NRMU

00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:44.089
12 zoning district they're proposing to develop that under

00:17:44.089 --> 00:17:45.119
the standards for NR3

00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:48.410
so that single-family abut single-family since there is an

00:17:48.410 --> 00:17:48.799
existing

00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:52.089
subdivision to the north. So the single-family homes would

00:17:52.089 --> 00:17:52.880
be in the area

00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:55.960
that's NR3 plus this it's roughly three and a half to four

00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:57.839
acres that's NRMU 12.

00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:02.289
Within the entire area they would request that amenity and

00:18:02.289 --> 00:18:03.319
amenity center

00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:07.279
and then accessory structures be permitted throughout for

00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:08.480
the residents.

00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:12.200
Commissioner back. Thank you chair. Is there going to be a

00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:14.200
distinct barrier

00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:19.839
between NRMU 12 and the NR3? No sir I believe they have a

00:18:19.839 --> 00:18:20.640
concept plan that

00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:23.200
they are willing to share tonight during the public hearing

00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:23.960
but from what I've

00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:26.220
seen other than a street there wouldn't be any physical

00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:27.359
separation there. Okay

00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:35.130
thanks. So exhibit C4 which was provided really breaks down

00:18:35.130 --> 00:18:35.480
all of the

00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:37.369
development standards they're proposing so I just wanted to

00:18:37.369 --> 00:18:38.039
hit some of the high

00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:41.670
points of that. They're providing standards for site design

00:18:41.670 --> 00:18:42.200
architecture

00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:45.190
landscaping parking all the major components of a

00:18:45.190 --> 00:18:46.839
residential development.

00:18:46.839 --> 00:18:49.490
One of the key features on the southern side they are

00:18:49.490 --> 00:18:50.799
trying to create more of

00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:53.450
an urban feel so you'll notice some reduced setbacks are

00:18:53.450 --> 00:18:54.240
proposed for these

00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:58.049
townhomes to make it more compact and walkable. They are

00:18:58.049 --> 00:18:59.279
requiring a high

00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:02.269
amount of architectural diversity so it wouldn't you know

00:19:02.269 --> 00:19:03.319
no more than so many

00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:05.960
of the houses could look the same within a certain spacing.

00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:07.200
A lot of architectural

00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:09.720
details are required and changes in building materials.

00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:10.640
They do have a

00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:14.450
minimum of 80% masonry proposed for all elevations and to

00:19:14.450 --> 00:19:15.880
be consistent with the

00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:18.109
rest of the overlay you know they're really encouraging the

00:19:18.109 --> 00:19:18.779
stone materials

00:19:18.779 --> 00:19:20.740
and the neutral color palette that's found throughout the

00:19:20.740 --> 00:19:21.920
rest of Razor Ranch

00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:25.640
and I did want to point out before the meeting they...

00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:28.599
Commissioner Sanchez. You mentioned that

00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:31.200
the reduced setbacks would allow buildings to be brought

00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:31.680
closer to the

00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:35.930
street. Is that a special consideration we're giving to

00:19:35.930 --> 00:19:37.480
them on this to allow

00:19:37.480 --> 00:19:41.579
them to bring the buildings closer? Would we allow that any

00:19:41.579 --> 00:19:42.400
place else? Yeah it would be

00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:44.839
unique to the overlay district and to these standards.

00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:46.480
Within NRMU 12 there are

00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:50.640
I believe it's a six foot six foot side yards ten foot

00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:52.680
front yard city wide

00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:56.400
within the overlay they're they're wishing to create more

00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:57.319
unique standards

00:19:57.319 --> 00:19:59.559
for themselves to create that urban environment that they

00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:01.119
're going for. But

00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:07.430
that would be unique to this 40 acres. So I provided you a

00:20:07.430 --> 00:20:08.759
copy of this revised

00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:11.970
exhibit or appendix two that was provided to me shortly

00:20:11.970 --> 00:20:12.640
before the meeting.

00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:16.269
What they were clarifying on this the only change is that a

00:20:16.269 --> 00:20:17.359
green space has

00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:19.460
been called out throughout the center of the property. They

00:20:19.460 --> 00:20:20.559
wanted to clarify that

00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:23.930
attached single-family wouldn't be encroaching into that in

00:20:23.930 --> 00:20:24.519
our three

00:20:24.519 --> 00:20:26.750
zoning district that would actually be green space in the

00:20:26.750 --> 00:20:27.240
center of the

00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:34.240
property. So looking at this a little more broadly the

00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:35.200
future land use for the

00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:38.119
area is moderate residential so that's the four to twelve

00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:38.920
units per acre

00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:41.970
promotes a mixture of housing types to provide a transition

00:20:41.970 --> 00:20:43.059
between commercial

00:20:43.059 --> 00:20:47.140
areas and establish single-family neighborhoods. In general

00:20:47.140 --> 00:20:47.960
this proposal

00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:50.380
does provide that they're providing a and actually a very

00:20:50.380 --> 00:20:51.359
stark transition from

00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:54.569
commercial to townhomes or more dense residential to single

00:20:54.569 --> 00:20:55.640
-family to make it

00:20:55.640 --> 00:20:59.319
more compatible with the surrounding neighborhoods. So

00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:01.079
staff did find that the

00:21:01.079 --> 00:21:03.509
proposed design and development standards are consistent

00:21:03.509 --> 00:21:04.119
with both the

00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:07.500
base zoning and with the remainder of the razor ranch

00:21:07.500 --> 00:21:08.960
overlay district. Their

00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:11.259
design and development standards are much stricter than

00:21:11.259 --> 00:21:12.319
what the city has in

00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:16.119
place citywide in the DDC for single-family development. It

00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:17.039
does conform

00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.799
with the density and the overall character that's promoted

00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:20.519
by that future

00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:23.250
land use designation of moderate residential and it is

00:21:23.250 --> 00:21:24.240
providing a logical

00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:27.079
transition as I mentioned. So going from the the large

00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:28.240
commercial development at

00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:31.039
the market marketplace to more dense residential and then

00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:31.920
slowly into that

00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:37.519
detached single-family under NR3. Notifications were sent

00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:37.859
about the

00:21:37.859 --> 00:21:42.289
request. I received no response forms to that. What I did

00:21:42.289 --> 00:21:43.119
receive were several

00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:45.670
inquiries and I made copies of those email exchanges and

00:21:45.670 --> 00:21:46.680
provided those to you

00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:48.910
so that you could see the types of questions that had been

00:21:48.910 --> 00:21:49.440
raised by the

00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:55.509
community. Haley on on the emails that were sent I just was

00:21:55.509 --> 00:21:56.000
reading through

00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:59.299
those there's really no opinion expressed in any of them so

00:21:59.299 --> 00:21:59.680
they don't

00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:03.519
say where they're for it against it. Exactly yeah so yes as

00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:04.440
I said you know

00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:07.410
no formal responses just some general inquiries but I just

00:22:07.410 --> 00:22:08.200
wanted to make you

00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:12.670
all aware of the type of feedback that we had received for

00:22:12.670 --> 00:22:14.519
this. So with that

00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:16.809
staff is recommending approval of the request because of

00:22:16.809 --> 00:22:17.839
its compatibility and

00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:21.160
consistency with the denim plan. Commissioner Ellis. Thank

00:22:21.160 --> 00:22:22.400
You Chair. Haley I

00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:25.440
had a question with the document itself with regard to the

00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:26.839
fencing. It does

00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.450
mention in their fencing for the single-family sites it

00:22:30.450 --> 00:22:31.559
does not mention

00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:37.759
anything about fencing standards for the multifam side.

00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:38.200
Some was

00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:40.640
confused. For the town home side is that what you're inqu

00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:43.519
iring about? Right. Within the overlay

00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:47.039
district itself when when the marketplace was created it

00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:48.359
calls for a fence to be

00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:51.420
provided between the commercial development and this area

00:22:51.420 --> 00:22:51.960
so that's

00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:54.000
already provided. It's already accounted for. Okay very

00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:57.160
good thank you. Commissioner Smith.

00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:01.279
Thank you Chair. I think whenever we get to site plan if we

00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:02.319
get this approved is

00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:04.369
probably a better question but just looking at this looking

00:23:04.369 --> 00:23:05.039
at the site map

00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:08.599
itself is moat was there do they give any indication of

00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:09.799
what their mobility

00:23:09.799 --> 00:23:14.079
plan was going to be for that? Is Augusta going to continue

00:23:14.079 --> 00:23:14.839
through? What's the

00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:19.619
accessibility roadwise into there? Certainly. Like I said I

00:23:19.619 --> 00:23:20.279
believe they'll

00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:23.640
have the concept plan available this evening at the public

00:23:23.640 --> 00:23:24.380
hearing but

00:23:24.380 --> 00:23:26.500
Augusta my understanding is that it would continue through

00:23:26.500 --> 00:23:27.079
and then there

00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:29.829
would be kind of a split here and with a couple of separate

00:23:29.829 --> 00:23:30.759
roads going this way.

00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:33.349
I think they're planning alleyways for the town homes to

00:23:33.349 --> 00:23:34.200
have rear garage

00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:37.359
access and then I believe it is one point of entry off of

00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:38.480
Bonnie Bray as well.

00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:43.710
Okay got it. So they're gonna be your net though? Yes. One

00:23:43.710 --> 00:23:44.000
other thing

00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:49.119
there's that pond that's on the south side of the NRMU 12

00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:52.539
zoning area. Is there any ESA issues? No that's actually a

00:23:52.539 --> 00:23:53.559
detention pond designed

00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:56.599
specifically for this area of Razor Ranch. Thank you.

00:23:56.599 --> 00:23:57.680
Commissioner Bet.

00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:00.970
Thank you Chair. I'm glad you asked that question. That was

00:24:00.970 --> 00:24:02.640
part of my question. So

00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:06.250
parking on streets and I mean if we you said we had a 10-

00:24:06.250 --> 00:24:07.599
foot setback from the

00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:12.240
street is that correct? Under NRMU 12 elsewhere in the city

00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:13.240
there would be a

00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:15.930
front yard setback I believe it's 10 feet. Okay. Is it from

00:24:15.930 --> 00:24:16.640
the street or the

00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:19.950
right-of-way? It'd be from the right-of-way so you'll have

00:24:19.950 --> 00:24:21.359
this difference between

00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:24.289
the back of the curb, the grass strip, sidewalk, and the

00:24:24.289 --> 00:24:25.920
right-of-way and then 10 feet.

00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:28.650
Okay. And what they're proposing you know that they

00:24:28.650 --> 00:24:29.799
reference a zero foot setback

00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:31.839
but they are proposing sidewalks along all the streets that

00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:32.440
would meet city

00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:36.069
standards so there would be sidewalk and landscaping. Some

00:24:36.069 --> 00:24:37.240
street parking is

00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:40.880
going to be allowed? My understanding they have written in

00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:43.400
a provision in here

00:24:43.400 --> 00:24:45.789
that would preclude parking on the streets necessarily but

00:24:45.789 --> 00:24:46.200
they are

00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:49.799
proposing some parking at the end of each row of homes kind

00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:50.519
of a little

00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:54.299
designated a few extra parking spaces for guests. Okay. You

00:24:54.299 --> 00:24:55.240
mentioned alleyways

00:24:55.240 --> 00:24:58.960
for the townhome so are they garage entrances gonna be in

00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:00.279
the back then of the townhome?

00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:02.720
For the townhomes I believe so. Okay so that would probably

00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:07.079
remove a lot of car parking out in

00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:10.920
front of houses. Okay great. Thank you.

00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:24.440
I'm sorry Haley. Go ahead. Couldn't get away that quick.

00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:26.279
Maybe I'm confusing this with

00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:31.559
another property but this is all along 35. Are there any

00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:34.279
gas wells? There is I

00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:37.400
don't know if I have an aerial that is...

00:25:39.240 --> 00:25:43.349
There is a gas well north of here off of actually two gas

00:25:43.349 --> 00:25:45.119
well sites north of

00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:47.579
here on Windsor and then there's the one that's within the

00:25:47.579 --> 00:25:48.519
southern campus of

00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:51.680
Razor Ranch. But nothing that triggered special notice? No

00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:52.920
sir. Not within this.

00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:57.460
There's a third one I think just north of Windsor. Yeah

00:25:57.460 --> 00:25:58.519
that is correct and I

00:25:58.519 --> 00:26:01.519
think there is it's hard to see on here there's another one

00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:01.640
I think that's it.

00:26:01.640 --> 00:26:11.480
Okay thank you. Thank you.

00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:19.000
Move us to items. Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. So to

00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:20.880
be clear what we're

00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:25.079
voting on here is not specific criteria just the fact that

00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:26.680
what exactly is it

00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:28.960
we're gonna be voting on? Because we're not seeing any

00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:30.079
specific criteria but

00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:35.599
we're gonna vote to... It's the criteria that are provided

00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:37.720
here or what I called

00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:43.549
it in your backup let me see what name. Yes it's exhibit

00:26:43.549 --> 00:26:46.079
six in your backup it's

00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:49.759
exhibit C4 as well as the the language amendments to the

00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:50.759
overlay district

00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:53.119
itself where they needed to provide references to it. So we

00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:53.559
have site

00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:57.190
standards they're in a certain area of the DDC and we're

00:26:57.190 --> 00:26:58.920
approving that for them.

00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:03.710
Yes sub chapter seven section 15 is the razor ranch overlay

00:27:03.710 --> 00:27:04.480
district so they've

00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:07.589
provided a few language tweaks in there to refer to this

00:27:07.589 --> 00:27:09.200
exhibit that is what

00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:12.759
you were provided tonight. Thank you. And Haley will the

00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:13.880
site plan come back to?

00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:18.480
Yes yeah plotting and site plan for this development will

00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:20.119
come back to PNZ.

00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:27.900
That's it. Thank you Haley. Item C as on our agenda is

00:27:27.900 --> 00:27:31.799
postponed indefinitely. Item D

00:27:31.799 --> 00:27:37.329
is marked on our agenda has been postponed to March 7th so

00:27:37.329 --> 00:27:38.000
we will open

00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:45.089
that continue it and leave open. Item E will be opened it

00:27:45.089 --> 00:27:46.359
'll be continued to

00:27:46.359 --> 00:27:52.430
March 21st and leave open and then we will have Debra and

00:27:52.430 --> 00:27:54.160
do you want to stick

00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:57.269
with the agenda and have Ron do his presentation and you

00:27:57.269 --> 00:27:58.319
come up and do all

00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:06.839
of your ESA? Yes. Okay. And item F will be covered in our

00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:08.079
next work session

00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:12.579
report but before that we will have a presentation from Ron

00:28:12.579 --> 00:28:13.759
as our going on

00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:18.910
into our work session reports on the public outreach

00:28:18.910 --> 00:28:23.440
efforts. Good evening

00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:27.119
chair members of the Commission. I don't know if I'm

00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:28.720
excited or scared to make

00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:31.599
this presentation because there's a lot of information here

00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:32.359
. I know you guys

00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:35.970
didn't get a backup we were in working on this even today

00:28:35.970 --> 00:28:38.319
to share with you our

00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:46.349
plans for our DVC update public engagement plan that is to

00:28:46.349 --> 00:28:47.759
start the

00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:51.670
process of getting public input. We started one module but

00:28:51.670 --> 00:28:53.019
we'll get to the

00:28:53.019 --> 00:28:57.119
rest and I'll have that in my presentation.

00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:04.720
So just quick background you know we we approved our den

00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:08.160
plan 2030 part of that

00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:12.589
plan is a future land use designation a land use element a

00:29:12.589 --> 00:29:13.799
number of other

00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:19.049
things associated with development in the city which calls

00:29:19.049 --> 00:29:20.920
for an update to

00:29:20.920 --> 00:29:27.880
our DDC and our DDC to be consistent with our den plan 2030

00:29:27.880 --> 00:29:28.720
needs to be

00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:32.329
updated so that's what we're doing with with this project.

00:29:32.329 --> 00:29:34.039
Our main goal here is

00:29:34.039 --> 00:29:37.250
to assist development and redevelopment that meets that

00:29:37.250 --> 00:29:39.000
city vision. Through the

00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:42.630
input that we receive through various stakeholders and

00:29:42.630 --> 00:29:44.200
interviews we've come

00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:48.359
up with four I'm sorry these focus themes was common themes

00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:49.599
and that is to

00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:54.029
focus on customer service build a stronger foundation

00:29:54.029 --> 00:29:55.119
tailor our

00:29:55.119 --> 00:29:59.440
development standards that are more context and to a

00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:01.759
specific area create new

00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:06.829
alternatives to provide flexibility and lastly coordinate

00:30:06.829 --> 00:30:08.160
efforts throughout the

00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:12.490
city and as you see a lot of our development code updates

00:30:12.490 --> 00:30:13.039
are coming

00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:16.460
there as an example that's part of the effort of

00:30:16.460 --> 00:30:18.279
coordinating our efforts when

00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:25.799
we bring forward more code amendments that's the goal. So

00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:28.000
we are looking at a

00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:32.950
code amendment proposal that will have eight chapters

00:30:32.950 --> 00:30:35.079
currently we have 24

00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:40.160
sub chapters let me clarify sub chapters they are they

00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:41.759
being the consultants are

00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:46.420
proposing that they be grouped into eight sub chapters and

00:30:46.420 --> 00:30:47.640
those sub chapters

00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:54.480
are listed here in an effort to review this in a more succ

00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:56.480
inct manner they've

00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:00.569
even grouped it even more and developed modules so the

00:31:00.569 --> 00:31:03.119
first module is the

00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:07.549
zoning districts the overlay in historic districts and the

00:31:07.549 --> 00:31:09.559
use regulations this

00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:13.720
was presented and made available in the fall of last year

00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:14.720
it's currently on our

00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:18.430
website we've received comments already from the general

00:31:18.430 --> 00:31:19.720
public and we continue

00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:26.089
to receive input from them. The update will also include a

00:31:26.089 --> 00:31:29.160
zoning map update as

00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:35.930
we look at a new zoning list of districts our zoning map

00:31:35.930 --> 00:31:36.799
has to be

00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:41.609
reflected of that so we will also need to update our zoning

00:31:41.609 --> 00:31:42.880
map and that is

00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:46.759
quite an effort and I'll get into that a little bit more as

00:31:46.759 --> 00:31:47.799
to how we're gonna

00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:56.119
get through that. The first effort and you all the three

00:31:56.119 --> 00:31:57.119
that are listed here

00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:02.349
are part of this DDC update advisory committee it's made up

00:32:02.349 --> 00:32:03.359
of three council

00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:06.369
members and three planning zoning commissioners Larry Mar

00:32:06.369 --> 00:32:07.480
gie and Andrew

00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.359
you're on the planning zoning commission a component of

00:32:10.359 --> 00:32:12.279
this and this committee

00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:16.799
is charged to be the first reviewers of any drafts that

00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:18.599
will come out so when

00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:24.339
Clarion comes up with or comes out with their module 2 the

00:32:24.339 --> 00:32:25.200
committee will be the

00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:28.000
first to look at it of course staff will have an

00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:29.339
opportunity to review it get it

00:32:29.339 --> 00:32:32.119
revise it and get it back to you all but the committee's

00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:33.240
responsibility is to

00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:40.200
review the drafts and also help guide the process. We also

00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:41.960
have a technical team

00:32:41.960 --> 00:32:47.660
that will assist in the facilitation of the code update of

00:32:47.660 --> 00:32:48.480
course we are we've

00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:53.710
got we have Clarion Scott McDonald development director

00:32:53.710 --> 00:32:54.559
development

00:32:54.559 --> 00:32:57.599
services director as well as Richard myself and the other

00:32:57.599 --> 00:32:58.700
staff members here

00:32:58.700 --> 00:33:03.339
will be part of that team to facilitate getting information

00:33:03.339 --> 00:33:05.400
to the committee

00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:09.170
facilitating the public open houses the workshops hopefully

00:33:09.170 --> 00:33:10.400
ultimately to City

00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:15.519
Council and planning zoning Commission for consideration.

00:33:15.519 --> 00:33:19.119
So here we go so fall

00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:23.309
of 2017 we again I mentioned module one was presented we

00:33:23.309 --> 00:33:25.240
had a we had open house

00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:28.000
in June public meeting one was in September and then

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:29.119
November we had a

00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:34.680
follow-up meeting in November 13 on November 13th. The week

00:33:34.680 --> 00:33:35.799
of March 5th

00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:41.359
coming up module 2 will be available for the general public

00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:42.519
staff is in the

00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:46.039
process of reviewing it now and the council consultants

00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:47.279
will be revising it

00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:50.960
once they provide us with their revisions based on our

00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:52.200
comments March

00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:58.789
5th will be the date that we will make it available. Of

00:33:58.789 --> 00:34:00.839
course in that during

00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:05.430
that week March 7th the committee is going to have their

00:34:05.430 --> 00:34:06.839
first meeting to

00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:12.969
look over module 2 in that same day we will have a public

00:34:12.969 --> 00:34:15.719
meeting on having an

00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:18.800
opportunity for the general public to come and provide

00:34:18.800 --> 00:34:20.079
input and that will be

00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:25.880
held during the early afternoon. March 7th is a P&Z date

00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:27.679
that's unfortunately

00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:31.969
the date we were we have so in the early afternoon we'll

00:34:31.969 --> 00:34:33.159
have a public meeting

00:34:33.159 --> 00:34:37.050
and then later that evening will be P&Z so it'll be a full

00:34:37.050 --> 00:34:38.480
day for the planning

00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:40.369
zoning Commissioners that are on the committee.

00:34:40.369 --> 00:34:41.800
Commissioner Beck. Thank you

00:34:41.800 --> 00:34:45.219
chair so the advisory committee us three were meeting that

00:34:45.219 --> 00:34:46.360
morning? In the morning

00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:58.449
yes. Okay thanks. Busy day. Lock out your whole day. Lunch

00:34:58.449 --> 00:34:59.440
and dinner. The next day which is the

00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:04.239
Thursday March 8th we will hold stakeholder meetings with

00:35:04.239 --> 00:35:05.440
special groups

00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:12.269
both internally and externally that will happen in the

00:35:12.269 --> 00:35:14.440
morning and the afternoon

00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:20.510
and then that afternoon them the the between 11 and 1 we're

00:35:20.510 --> 00:35:21.199
proposing to have

00:35:21.199 --> 00:35:24.159
an open house again another opportunity for the general

00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:25.480
public to come if they

00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:28.989
were not able to make it that evening of March 7th there's

00:35:28.989 --> 00:35:29.920
there's an opportunity

00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:34.539
to come on March 8th so all this information I know some of

00:35:34.539 --> 00:35:34.920
you are

00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:38.000
jotting things down are looking at your calendar we will

00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:39.239
make available to you

00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:42.159
all this is a draft we are still working on this and the

00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:43.199
reason why we're

00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:46.869
presenting this to you today is really to get your input to

00:35:46.869 --> 00:35:47.599
give you an

00:35:47.599 --> 00:35:50.809
opportunity to let us know if you have any other ideas or

00:35:50.809 --> 00:35:51.920
if there's ways we

00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:55.800
can improve this and I felt to mention that earlier. All

00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:57.440
right so that's module

00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:02.690
two module three will happen in about two weeks after that

00:36:02.690 --> 00:36:05.280
March 19th we will

00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:09.519
make public the the draft of module three which is the

00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:10.440
development standards

00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:15.489
similar situation the consultants will be here on March 21

00:36:15.489 --> 00:36:16.880
st which is again a

00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:23.019
P&Z date the whole day blocked out for Larry Andrew and Mar

00:36:23.019 --> 00:36:24.519
gie stakeholder

00:36:24.519 --> 00:36:31.199
meetings and open house as shown here. Roughly the week of

00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:33.000
March 26 which is the

00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:38.230
week after we are hoping to have the proposed zoning map

00:36:38.230 --> 00:36:39.920
available and this is

00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:45.719
a lot of work being done right now to basically take our

00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:47.239
current zoning make

00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:50.360
it fit within our proposed zoning districts that's

00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:51.559
consistent with our

00:36:51.559 --> 00:36:54.559
future land use designation so it's it's a lot of different

00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:56.280
things going in now

00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:59.230
this is a proposed zoning map and this is going to affect a

00:36:59.230 --> 00:37:00.199
lot of people and

00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:03.710
that's that's something that we are also going to address

00:37:03.710 --> 00:37:05.119
as part of this public

00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:12.449
engagement effort. Early May after all the public input in

00:37:12.449 --> 00:37:13.760
open houses we're

00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:17.179
hoping to have a consolidated public draft available for

00:37:17.179 --> 00:37:18.360
everyone to look at

00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:21.889
this will be based on input we receive the revisions made

00:37:21.889 --> 00:37:23.159
by the consultants

00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:26.769
and hopefully a draft that will then receive additional

00:37:26.769 --> 00:37:28.039
input and something

00:37:28.039 --> 00:37:30.860
that will then take forward to the committee through the

00:37:30.860 --> 00:37:31.760
committee to the

00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:35.849
P&Z and City Council. Ron question for you on that slide

00:37:35.849 --> 00:37:37.760
you go back on the

00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:41.119
proposed zoning map is this essentially going to be like a

00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:42.800
sea-wide rezoning? Yes

00:37:42.800 --> 00:37:49.480
sir. Okay so just like what we did 2002. Now a lot of the

00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:50.719
zoning so just really

00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:54.349
quick background on that currently we have I want to say 26

00:37:54.349 --> 00:37:55.559
zoning districts

00:37:55.559 --> 00:38:01.809
we're going to go down to 14 so there will be some combined

00:38:01.809 --> 00:38:03.440
some eliminated

00:38:03.440 --> 00:38:09.760
some added so it's it's a comprehensive zoning map update.

00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:11.239
Just to follow up on

00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:16.789
that if I recall just so I'm familiar and public can be

00:38:16.789 --> 00:38:18.800
familiar you can't

00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:22.099
downzone a property without the owners consent is that

00:38:22.099 --> 00:38:25.440
correct? I honestly I

00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:29.449
don't know the answer to that question. Down zoning without

00:38:29.449 --> 00:38:31.199
the owners consent.

00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:35.400
If you do a city-wide rezoning you can't go from for

00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:37.760
example an NR4 to an NR2

00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:48.880
without the owners consent. So the minimum with their

00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:50.000
proposed rezoning you at

00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:52.780
least stay with the zoning you have or you bump up to a

00:38:52.780 --> 00:38:54.079
higher classification

00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:57.190
that's the closest to what you currently have you can't go

00:38:57.190 --> 00:38:58.519
down so it's always

00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:03.500
going to be stay or up rather than down. Okay thanks for

00:39:03.500 --> 00:39:05.559
the clarification. I know

00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:09.989
that was a huge or that was a lot of issues many years ago.

00:39:09.989 --> 00:39:11.280
Right and again

00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:14.380
it's gonna be very difficult to make that definition

00:39:14.380 --> 00:39:15.420
because a lot of the

00:39:15.420 --> 00:39:18.949
zone districts you know what's considered down zoning so we

00:39:18.949 --> 00:39:19.599
'll I've

00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:24.059
noted that and and we'll make sure that we bring that up as

00:39:24.059 --> 00:39:25.000
a topic for

00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:29.599
discussion. Okay thank you. Commissioner Sanchez. Based on

00:39:29.599 --> 00:39:30.239
the fact that there's

00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:32.510
gonna be a lot of changes what kind of response are you

00:39:32.510 --> 00:39:33.480
getting from in these

00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:38.429
public meetings? I mean are you getting a lot of input or

00:39:38.429 --> 00:39:39.880
is it just a few people

00:39:39.880 --> 00:39:43.190
showing up? We had I go back to the slide because the first

00:39:43.190 --> 00:39:44.579
the only public

00:39:44.579 --> 00:39:47.650
meeting we've had is module one which is which is the big

00:39:47.650 --> 00:39:48.920
one right which has the

00:39:48.920 --> 00:39:52.210
zoning district. We held several ones as you can see here

00:39:52.210 --> 00:39:53.760
overhead the council

00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:58.440
chamber and there were about 30 to 40 people honestly that

00:39:58.440 --> 00:39:59.280
showed up and then

00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:03.769
we've also received comments online. I don't have a list

00:40:03.769 --> 00:40:05.880
but not a high input

00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:09.960
if I if I can be frank so yes I mean roughly each of these

00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:10.559
means we've had

00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:14.400
maybe 40 people. Margie you may have attended a couple of

00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:15.239
them or one of them.

00:40:15.239 --> 00:40:19.500
Yeah. Do you consider that pretty representative? I mean I

00:40:19.500 --> 00:40:20.760
wish we had more.

00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:23.039
Yeah that's what I'm saying to make changes as major as

00:40:23.039 --> 00:40:24.000
what you're talking

00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:26.360
about it doesn't seem like you're getting a whole lot of

00:40:26.360 --> 00:40:27.880
public input. And

00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:30.480
we're gonna we're gonna continue to reach out as much as we

00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:31.639
can and really

00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:37.579
rely on people to help us. Commissioner Ellis. Thank you

00:40:37.579 --> 00:40:38.519
chair. If I could add

00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:43.119
that to to your point Commissioner Sanchez all these

00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:44.880
efforts and we'll go

00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:47.760
through them and they've added even more I think ability

00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:48.920
for the public to make

00:40:48.920 --> 00:40:53.010
comments. I think this is tough to get the entire city

00:40:53.010 --> 00:40:54.519
involved in because it's

00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:58.969
pretty intense to read code and a lot of people don't care

00:40:58.969 --> 00:40:59.800
a lot of people don't

00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:05.880
understand it. So honestly the very first meeting in when

00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:07.920
we had I think we had 37

00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:10.150
people or something like that at that meeting you know that

00:41:10.150 --> 00:41:10.760
's pretty good

00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:14.519
because some people are paying attention and then I know

00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:16.480
there's been comments

00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:19.690
made online because you can go on on on the code website

00:41:19.690 --> 00:41:20.800
and look at those

00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:26.869
comments. As well I think adding the the what we did last

00:41:26.869 --> 00:41:28.800
time where we met them

00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:33.360
in the building on Hickory is that what you're proposing

00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:34.280
for those stakeholder

00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:36.920
meetings where people signed up for the time to have the

00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:38.679
one-on-one? Yeah. Is that

00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:41.710
what you're yeah and that that seemed well received you

00:41:41.710 --> 00:41:42.679
know where people went

00:41:42.679 --> 00:41:47.409
in handful at a time kind of a roundtable discussion. So

00:41:47.409 --> 00:41:48.559
yeah I think

00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:51.239
you're not gonna get the majority of the city involved in

00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:52.320
this and I don't know

00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:55.610
that you want the majority of the city involved in this

00:41:55.610 --> 00:41:56.920
because just some of

00:41:56.920 --> 00:42:00.210
them I mean are just not gonna have any input because it's

00:42:00.210 --> 00:42:01.480
just not anything of

00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:04.300
interest to them but I think I think the city's doing a

00:42:04.300 --> 00:42:05.480
good job in trying to

00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:09.110
reach out and get the word out for sure. Commissioner San

00:42:09.110 --> 00:42:10.760
chez. Yeah I'm not saying

00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:13.300
they're not I know it's people tend to be apathetic on a

00:42:13.300 --> 00:42:14.440
lot of issues when you

00:42:14.440 --> 00:42:18.050
try to get them involved and then afterwards they complain

00:42:18.050 --> 00:42:19.079
but you know

00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:22.539
the point here is you make a big effort and if they don't

00:42:22.539 --> 00:42:23.880
show up it's their

00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:26.760
fault but you want to make that big effort to try to bring

00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:27.719
them in. Right and

00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:30.599
again. Making sure it's in the paper. Yes. You know making

00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:32.639
sure that there's every

00:42:32.639 --> 00:42:36.559
form of communication that's all I'm saying. That's a big

00:42:36.559 --> 00:42:37.320
issue I think.

00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:39.460
We do appreciate that and that's why again why we're here

00:42:39.460 --> 00:42:40.119
we're trying to

00:42:40.119 --> 00:42:42.909
get it as early as possible to let people know that it's

00:42:42.909 --> 00:42:43.679
coming and so

00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:47.489
hopefully through this process not only will we hear ideas

00:42:47.489 --> 00:42:49.239
from you but maybe if

00:42:49.239 --> 00:42:51.630
people are watching they can give us ideas on how to reach

00:42:51.630 --> 00:42:52.280
out to as many

00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:55.909
people as possible. Commissioner Beck. Thank you chair and

00:42:55.909 --> 00:42:57.400
to help you along to

00:42:57.400 --> 00:43:02.690
echo what Commissioner Ellis said one of the best ways that

00:43:02.690 --> 00:43:04.000
we helped I know and

00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:06.960
maybe some others did too is we got out there on social

00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:08.039
media and made the

00:43:08.039 --> 00:43:10.670
public aware and a lot of the people that are on these

00:43:10.670 --> 00:43:11.920
social media websites

00:43:11.920 --> 00:43:15.230
are stakeholders and everything so I think we connected

00:43:15.230 --> 00:43:16.119
with the right

00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:19.329
people the fact that we only had 37 just kind of you know

00:43:19.329 --> 00:43:20.360
the interest in

00:43:20.360 --> 00:43:22.590
something like this so I think the people that need to be

00:43:22.590 --> 00:43:23.199
there were there

00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:26.409
you know maybe one or two weren't but I think the word got

00:43:26.409 --> 00:43:27.639
out well enough to

00:43:27.639 --> 00:43:31.159
the people that needed to hear so to allay your concern

00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:32.440
there I just wanted

00:43:32.440 --> 00:43:36.639
to share that with you. Again as you know social media of

00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:37.440
course and then of course a

00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:39.820
dedicated website that's going to be important because that

00:43:39.820 --> 00:43:40.440
's where we can

00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:42.789
post a lot of the information and again offer an

00:43:42.789 --> 00:43:44.199
opportunity for people to

00:43:44.199 --> 00:43:50.340
provide comments input so we have a dedicated website den

00:43:50.340 --> 00:43:52.760
code 2030.com

00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:57.489
we'll have the zoning map available there existing and

00:43:57.489 --> 00:43:59.320
propose all the uses

00:43:59.320 --> 00:44:04.599
that's associated with each again provide opportunities for

00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:05.480
people to

00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:09.119
provide comments what we'll do is we'll take those comments

00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:10.000
put them in an Excel

00:44:10.000 --> 00:44:13.929
spreadsheet and just keep track of these so that we can

00:44:13.929 --> 00:44:15.599
show and adjust those

00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:19.230
comments in an orderly fashion and of course upcoming

00:44:19.230 --> 00:44:20.440
workshops and public

00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:22.940
hearings that are scheduled so the information will be

00:44:22.940 --> 00:44:25.000
there on our website

00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:27.980
this is obviously one of my zoning case I just want to just

00:44:27.980 --> 00:44:29.199
illustrate what we'll

00:44:29.199 --> 00:44:32.630
potentially see it we'll have an existing and a propose and

00:44:32.630 --> 00:44:33.000
we'll we'll

00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:36.630
talk to each property owner if need be to show with show

00:44:36.630 --> 00:44:38.119
them what we are

00:44:38.119 --> 00:44:42.349
proposing and we'll get their comment and document all that

00:44:42.349 --> 00:44:44.000
information for

00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:49.170
for all the committee and the Pinsley and City Council to

00:44:49.170 --> 00:44:50.719
consider okay so that's

00:44:50.719 --> 00:44:57.530
the modules module two and three March 5th March 19th busy

00:44:57.530 --> 00:45:00.920
weeks the maps the

00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:05.079
21st right the map the learning map is a is a big deal

00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:05.960
because it affects

00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:12.119
everyone one way or another if zone appropriately what we

00:45:12.119 --> 00:45:13.000
're proposing is

00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:17.280
sending out letters and we have approximately 40,000

00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:18.119
properties or

00:45:18.119 --> 00:45:23.130
parcels in the city and we are going to send out what their

00:45:23.130 --> 00:45:24.800
zoning is going to

00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:30.639
be instructions to access information on the website have

00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:32.639
have opportunities for

00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:37.590
them to find out what's going on with their property email

00:45:37.590 --> 00:45:39.679
DTV newspaper we

00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:43.400
already talked about press releases you know everything

00:45:43.400 --> 00:45:45.360
that we can think of you

00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:49.480
know special in city newsletter going out social media

00:45:49.480 --> 00:45:51.760
everything that we we

00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:55.440
normally do as far as public outreach Commissioner Smith

00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:57.920
make sure 40,000

00:45:57.920 --> 00:46:05.639
letters yeah in the past whenever you chair whenever you

00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:06.800
guys did the the last

00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:11.230
citywide rezone believe it or not that was even before my

00:46:11.230 --> 00:46:18.639
time is there gonna

00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:21.730
be a public was gonna be a public forum for this whenever

00:46:21.730 --> 00:46:22.639
it comes to come back

00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:26.880
to us for we this the map we're gonna have to vote on it

00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:28.039
right and a public and

00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:31.139
a public hearing correct correct just saying that just to

00:46:31.139 --> 00:46:32.599
ask this then so

00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:37.849
there's the chance that of the 40,000 maybe that don't like

00:46:37.849 --> 00:46:39.039
their their

00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:41.969
rezoning that we'll be hearing from them as well yes get

00:46:41.969 --> 00:46:43.440
your get your caffeine

00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:45.840
ready boys

00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:53.760
Commissioner Ellis thank you Jeff Ron at one time when we

00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:55.400
started this right

00:46:55.400 --> 00:47:02.000
there was an end of our second module to meeting we put

00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:05.519
together a citizen names

00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:08.719
of citizens that we had provided and then that's when

00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:10.039
everything came to a

00:47:10.039 --> 00:47:13.710
screeching halt I think somebody from staff reached out to

00:47:13.710 --> 00:47:14.519
these people who's

00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:17.309
and they agreed to be on this committee and the committee

00:47:17.309 --> 00:47:18.639
absolutely never met

00:47:18.639 --> 00:47:23.199
have we thought about engaging that group again we did and

00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:24.239
I think it was

00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:30.039
there was a transition in staff and when that happened that

00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:33.960
idea is not part of

00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:37.469
our public outreach we will have a lot of public outreach

00:47:37.469 --> 00:47:38.440
so those individuals

00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:43.010
will still be participating but not at the level as they

00:47:43.010 --> 00:47:44.440
would as part of that

00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:47.869
okay so not part of any kind of steering committee have we

00:47:47.869 --> 00:47:49.000
made sure that we have

00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:52.039
those people on a list though I mean because those were

00:47:52.039 --> 00:47:53.000
those were good

00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:56.420
involved names I know that we've all provided and I've

00:47:56.420 --> 00:47:57.320
certainly been

00:47:57.320 --> 00:48:01.039
questioned like hey they contacted me once and never again

00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:02.559
so right again it

00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:05.739
was during that transition and we do have them are we our

00:48:05.739 --> 00:48:06.840
list continues to

00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:09.590
grow and we continue to make sure that it's updated and we

00:48:09.590 --> 00:48:10.440
will use that as

00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:13.369
part of our public outreach well and we may want to I don't

00:48:13.369 --> 00:48:14.440
know who did the

00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:16.840
reaching out the first time but you know perhaps somebody

00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:17.760
from staff needs to

00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:20.000
reach out again to just say that the steering committee is

00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:20.920
not going to happen

00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:23.809
okay but we want them involved in this process and to

00:48:23.809 --> 00:48:25.000
please you know stay

00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:28.630
engaged I mean I think I think we owe them that we we we

00:48:28.630 --> 00:48:29.920
called them ourselves

00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:34.170
personally and then staff sent out and got the yes we want

00:48:34.170 --> 00:48:35.079
to be on the

00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:38.329
committee and then silence and so I think they at least

00:48:38.329 --> 00:48:39.559
deserve some kind of

00:48:39.559 --> 00:48:43.449
an explanation and and maybe a way to to stay involved in

00:48:43.449 --> 00:48:44.440
it great no thank you

00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:47.599
for that and we'll certainly do that Commissioner Smith

00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:49.400
nature sorry I know

00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:52.179
how much jokes and everything else but not not not so I

00:48:52.179 --> 00:48:53.159
finally sunk in I

00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:55.519
actually want to ask some serious questions the timeline

00:48:55.519 --> 00:48:56.059
between the

00:48:56.059 --> 00:48:58.880
mailing and the public hearing you think what's the what's

00:48:58.880 --> 00:48:59.880
the the time they're

00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:02.829
gonna have of notification till the public hearing till

00:49:02.829 --> 00:49:03.920
till till the ad

00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:06.170
till the vote on the DTC comes back to us at planning I

00:49:06.170 --> 00:49:07.199
think our standard is

00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:11.710
12 days for public here so yes is there anything I know you

00:49:11.710 --> 00:49:12.519
guys have a lot of

00:49:12.519 --> 00:49:15.460
a lot of great things you guys doing email blast put them

00:49:15.460 --> 00:49:15.960
on the TV a

00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:18.900
dedicated website all that is there anything else that we

00:49:18.900 --> 00:49:19.440
can from a

00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:23.210
commission standpoint help you guys do excuse me preempt

00:49:23.210 --> 00:49:25.199
ively to assist that

00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:30.130
even offering ways that they can contact us be I'm speaking

00:49:30.130 --> 00:49:31.199
for myself not for

00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:34.039
that they can contact commissioners they can contact

00:49:34.039 --> 00:49:35.239
whoever they feel like is

00:49:35.239 --> 00:49:37.650
their representative to be able to answer questions because

00:49:37.650 --> 00:49:38.320
I feel like that

00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:41.469
just the same 12 days between you get a letter that and we

00:49:41.469 --> 00:49:42.559
've seen it we've had

00:49:42.559 --> 00:49:45.730
we've had cases that herb you know deals that come before

00:49:45.730 --> 00:49:46.880
us that they come to

00:49:46.880 --> 00:49:49.610
say I just came here and I had a bunch of questions and now

00:49:49.610 --> 00:49:50.239
they've all been

00:49:50.239 --> 00:49:52.469
answered for me being here so just to save people time and

00:49:52.469 --> 00:49:53.840
save yes so so

00:49:53.840 --> 00:49:56.079
beating ourselves before we get to a public hearing we're

00:49:56.079 --> 00:49:56.679
gonna we're gonna

00:49:56.679 --> 00:50:00.889
have a lot of public outreach workshops and open houses so

00:50:00.889 --> 00:50:02.159
this notice that I'm

00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:06.719
sure these letters are for a public open house of workout

00:50:06.719 --> 00:50:08.800
so that's one we will

00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:11.559
have to re-notice them again so these are different than

00:50:11.559 --> 00:50:12.519
the actual for the

00:50:12.519 --> 00:50:14.750
public hearing so they'll be mailing and then they'll be a

00:50:14.750 --> 00:50:15.239
notice then they'll be

00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:17.940
12 days and then it'll be okay yes you're saying we're

00:50:17.940 --> 00:50:19.199
gonna send out 40,000

00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:22.079
notices and 12 days later we're gonna have no they'll they

00:50:22.079 --> 00:50:23.840
'll know already in

00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:26.809
advance but then per our requirement we would have to

00:50:26.809 --> 00:50:27.599
notice them again for the

00:50:27.599 --> 00:50:30.039
public hearing sure but the opportunities other than just

00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:31.599
that first time this

00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:34.780
will be this will be several times thank you appreciate it

00:50:34.780 --> 00:50:38.000
good question though

00:50:38.840 --> 00:50:42.730
so what we're proposing is to have public open houses and

00:50:42.730 --> 00:50:43.920
workshops by

00:50:43.920 --> 00:50:49.170
council districts just to help concentrate you know our

00:50:49.170 --> 00:50:50.559
efforts we'll

00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:54.650
have four stations available and you know it's manned our

00:50:54.650 --> 00:50:55.880
staffed with our

00:50:55.880 --> 00:50:59.869
staff members that is to go over all the details as to the

00:50:59.869 --> 00:51:01.519
type of zoning that is

00:51:01.519 --> 00:51:05.840
proposed the uses that are under that zoning district and

00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:07.320
any comments again

00:51:07.320 --> 00:51:10.610
we're trying to get their input and the goal is to fill out

00:51:10.610 --> 00:51:11.760
these common cards

00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:14.920
enter into an Excel spreadsheet and keep track of all the

00:51:14.920 --> 00:51:16.119
input that we have so

00:51:16.119 --> 00:51:19.639
when we get to PNZ and City Council that we'll have a

00:51:19.639 --> 00:51:21.179
better idea of what we've

00:51:21.179 --> 00:51:25.969
heard so here's another list of dates and so don't get

00:51:25.969 --> 00:51:27.039
scared this is this is

00:51:27.039 --> 00:51:33.110
where it gets a little crazy so for the zoning map this is

00:51:33.110 --> 00:51:34.840
the the 40,000 letters

00:51:34.840 --> 00:51:37.559
that we're gonna be sending out we're gonna be advertising

00:51:37.559 --> 00:51:38.360
or letting them

00:51:38.360 --> 00:51:42.599
know that if you're in district one your date to come to an

00:51:42.599 --> 00:51:44.320
open house is March

00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:50.079
26 it's just not too far away that's just around the corner

00:51:50.079 --> 00:51:51.360
location we

00:51:51.360 --> 00:51:53.829
haven't yet determined but we're gonna try to identify it

00:51:53.829 --> 00:51:54.760
within that zoning

00:51:54.760 --> 00:51:58.599
district no I'm sorry Zorn district council district

00:51:58.599 --> 00:52:00.400
district 2 that

00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:06.469
Thursday we'll have a week where we will have the staff

00:52:06.469 --> 00:52:08.719
available at our office

00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:13.539
then services to come in and speak to us individually if

00:52:13.539 --> 00:52:15.280
they want to if they

00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:18.800
weren't able to make the March I'm sorry the the first one

00:52:18.800 --> 00:52:21.000
or the second one on

00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:27.449
March April sorry April 9th will be district 3 district 4

00:52:27.449 --> 00:52:28.400
would be that

00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:33.630
Thursday and then a citywide on a Saturday again

00:52:33.630 --> 00:52:34.840
opportunity for people

00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:37.590
to come that weren't able to come they can come between 9

00:52:37.590 --> 00:52:39.079
and 12 on Saturday

00:52:39.079 --> 00:52:41.340
this is what staffs proposing obviously we'd like to hear

00:52:41.340 --> 00:52:42.519
from the Commission

00:52:42.519 --> 00:52:46.760
Commissioner Smith thank you chair is there any way we can

00:52:46.760 --> 00:52:47.320
include in that

00:52:47.320 --> 00:52:53.519
and that notification I'm sorry the initial notice uh-huh

00:52:53.519 --> 00:52:59.719
mailout include general basic district map I have a lot of

00:52:59.719 --> 00:53:00.679
people that I know

00:53:00.679 --> 00:53:03.400
that don't know what district they're in council district

00:53:03.400 --> 00:53:04.119
yeah what council

00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:06.750
district they're in so is there any way we can include you

00:53:06.750 --> 00:53:08.199
can't obviously go by

00:53:08.199 --> 00:53:11.389
letter by letter and say hey you're in district 2 but

00:53:11.389 --> 00:53:13.639
include a map well idea

00:53:13.639 --> 00:53:17.639
the idea no you're right I mean depending on how we say we

00:53:17.639 --> 00:53:17.960
want to say

00:53:17.960 --> 00:53:20.599
all at one time we need to make sure actual sheet in there

00:53:20.599 --> 00:53:21.280
they're familiar

00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:23.789
with what district they're in because they'll see this

00:53:23.789 --> 00:53:24.760
these dates and they

00:53:24.760 --> 00:53:28.849
want to make sure they attend that district meeting because

00:53:28.849 --> 00:53:29.320
it would be

00:53:29.320 --> 00:53:33.530
geared towards that specific area that makes sense thank

00:53:33.530 --> 00:53:34.400
you if we want to

00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:36.679
waste the paper even just point into the link on the

00:53:36.679 --> 00:53:37.719
website that has the map on

00:53:37.719 --> 00:53:42.670
there that they can do that too okay Commissioner Ellis

00:53:42.670 --> 00:53:43.639
thank you chair Ron

00:53:43.639 --> 00:53:47.349
are you sending us this presentation yes thank you this is

00:53:47.349 --> 00:53:49.079
a draft as it can be

00:53:49.079 --> 00:53:51.980
like I said we've been working on it all week and we want

00:53:51.980 --> 00:53:52.800
to make sure we

00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:55.559
incorporate what you you've told us and so when we get

00:53:55.559 --> 00:53:56.760
updated we'll make sure

00:53:56.760 --> 00:53:59.969
to send it to you well I met this particular one with the

00:53:59.969 --> 00:54:00.960
dates on it just

00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:07.889
so all of us okay perfect so any thoughts on these dates

00:54:07.889 --> 00:54:09.519
having it on a

00:54:09.519 --> 00:54:14.840
Monday for one a second one on a Thursday just splitting it

00:54:14.840 --> 00:54:15.599
up as we've

00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:19.719
proposed is there any comments or any questions

00:54:19.719 --> 00:54:21.880
Commissioner Beck I'm concerned

00:54:21.880 --> 00:54:25.389
and it may be that not many people turn up again except

00:54:25.389 --> 00:54:26.159
those who are really

00:54:26.159 --> 00:54:33.130
interested but on a 6 to 8 p.m. how many people are going

00:54:33.130 --> 00:54:33.599
to be there to answer

00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:37.599
questions for the public there will be at least eight staff

00:54:37.599 --> 00:54:39.599
members okay okay

00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:50.320
okay all right thank you Richard might be there maybe maybe

00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:55.989
Larry you can be there too and help us out we talked about

00:54:55.989 --> 00:54:57.559
individual

00:54:57.559 --> 00:54:59.789
stakeholder meetings you know we're gonna try to reach out

00:54:59.789 --> 00:55:00.960
to these individual

00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:05.099
groups again we want to hear from as many people as

00:55:05.099 --> 00:55:07.639
possible this is our list

00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:11.929
do you all see any or you see anything missing or do you

00:55:11.929 --> 00:55:13.519
have any groups that

00:55:13.519 --> 00:55:18.320
you think should be added that we can reach out to to make

00:55:18.320 --> 00:55:19.840
sure that we have

00:55:19.840 --> 00:55:23.050
everyone's input if you if you think of something later you

00:55:23.050 --> 00:55:24.039
can always email

00:55:24.039 --> 00:55:28.119
email myself or Richard or Scott

00:55:31.960 --> 00:55:34.989
all right so here are the public hearings Tim this is where

00:55:34.989 --> 00:55:36.079
this is where

00:55:36.079 --> 00:55:40.269
now I've got one I thought of okay commissioner Smith the

00:55:40.269 --> 00:55:42.440
chair rotary or

00:55:42.440 --> 00:55:45.760
Kiwanis or Lions Clubs

00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:03.599
okay

00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:11.530
the next slide is a busy slide I apologize but as we get

00:56:11.530 --> 00:56:13.360
through the

00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:16.880
public workshops and public open houses talking about the

00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:18.039
zoning map and any

00:56:18.039 --> 00:56:22.170
opportunity to talk about even the modules we're gonna get

00:56:22.170 --> 00:56:23.320
the PNZ and City

00:56:23.320 --> 00:56:27.409
Council familiar and brought up to speed now the commission

00:56:27.409 --> 00:56:28.300
I'm sorry the

00:56:28.300 --> 00:56:30.840
committee will have some insights but the plan the rest of

00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:31.840
the planning zoning

00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:36.789
Commission is going to hear for at least as a group the

00:56:36.789 --> 00:56:38.599
first time on April 17th

00:56:38.599 --> 00:56:42.289
an introduction joint meeting with the City Council and the

00:56:42.289 --> 00:56:43.159
planning zoning

00:56:43.159 --> 00:56:50.730
Commission following that will be April 18th and that is a

00:56:50.730 --> 00:56:52.360
PNZ date I'm sorry

00:56:52.360 --> 00:56:55.159
that's not a PNZ day that's not a PNZ day it's actually a

00:56:55.159 --> 00:56:56.440
Wednesday that's not

00:56:56.440 --> 00:57:02.079
a PNZ that will have the special work session with with PNZ

00:57:02.079 --> 00:57:04.360
and the hope

00:57:04.360 --> 00:57:06.400
there's that's all we're going to be talking about is

00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:08.280
module one as a

00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:13.119
commission Ron's got a question yes sir and looking at the

00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:14.000
whole calendar here

00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:17.670
with the special work sessions and the number of ordinances

00:57:17.670 --> 00:57:18.840
that we're going to

00:57:18.840 --> 00:57:21.960
have to be reviewing how early will we get that information

00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:23.079
prior to these

00:57:23.079 --> 00:57:26.500
meetings to have more than four or five days to review

00:57:26.500 --> 00:57:28.239
three or four ordinance I

00:57:28.239 --> 00:57:34.679
hope at least two several weeks yeah minimum two weeks if

00:57:34.679 --> 00:57:37.159
not more right

00:57:37.159 --> 00:57:41.119
Commissioner Ellis thank you chair isn't module one as it's

00:57:41.119 --> 00:57:41.920
going to be presented

00:57:41.920 --> 00:57:45.480
ready now it is we are like I said we are still

00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:49.269
reviewing receiving input always the idea is that the

00:57:49.269 --> 00:57:50.500
consultants will take

00:57:50.500 --> 00:57:53.710
that and maybe change it a little bit I already know that

00:57:53.710 --> 00:57:55.320
on the website there's

00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:59.000
already a major change that is already proposed so the

00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:00.639
version that you'll get

00:58:00.639 --> 00:58:05.659
will most likely be a different one yeah okay yeah I'd like

00:58:05.659 --> 00:58:06.639
to piggyback on

00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:10.519
Commissioner Ellis's point if the modules are ready or

00:58:10.519 --> 00:58:11.320
modules are ready

00:58:11.320 --> 00:58:14.429
now and you're receiving comment is there a reason why we

00:58:14.429 --> 00:58:15.639
can't get those now

00:58:15.639 --> 00:58:18.750
and be part of that we come in and hopefully speed the

00:58:18.750 --> 00:58:20.260
process up sure sure

00:58:20.260 --> 00:58:24.039
we can do that I think that'd be beneficial that I will

00:58:24.039 --> 00:58:24.440
speak for anybody

00:58:24.440 --> 00:58:27.650
else I know me and reading it like I said module one it's

00:58:27.650 --> 00:58:28.440
on the website

00:58:28.440 --> 00:58:32.340
module two will be available March 6 and then March 19 with

00:58:32.340 --> 00:58:33.280
module 3

00:58:33.280 --> 00:58:37.860
Commissioner Ellis thank you chair okay so clarify module

00:58:37.860 --> 00:58:39.760
one with as far as

00:58:39.760 --> 00:58:45.590
what okay last I heard we were moving forward with what was

00:58:45.590 --> 00:58:48.239
presented last so

00:58:48.239 --> 00:58:51.539
you're saying that now went back and got reviewed again

00:58:51.539 --> 00:58:52.400
would you say move

00:58:52.400 --> 00:58:55.449
forward you mean what obviously it wasn't approved but as

00:58:55.449 --> 00:58:56.480
far as I mean we

00:58:56.480 --> 00:59:01.769
had vetted it twice and had page turn you know committee

00:59:01.769 --> 00:59:02.920
and then we had

00:59:02.920 --> 00:59:08.210
several public input on it and so then I thought we were

00:59:08.210 --> 00:59:10.239
then we were I thought

00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:14.679
gonna bring it to full PNZ at that point so so no so module

00:59:14.679 --> 00:59:16.199
one's been redone

00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:20.000
since the committee saw them sort of okay what happened was

00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:21.119
you may recall

00:59:21.119 --> 00:59:23.519
there were there were mixed-use districts and then there

00:59:23.519 --> 00:59:24.199
were mixed-use

00:59:24.199 --> 00:59:28.079
corridor districts and a lot of it seemed to be repetitive

00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:29.039
and so what we

00:59:29.039 --> 00:59:31.539
thought was given where engineering starting to go with

00:59:31.539 --> 00:59:32.559
with their criteria

00:59:32.559 --> 00:59:35.769
manual on these context-sensitive corridors rather than

00:59:35.769 --> 00:59:36.719
have specific

00:59:36.719 --> 00:59:39.369
corridor zoning districts where we get into zoning changes

00:59:39.369 --> 00:59:40.199
because one thing

00:59:40.199 --> 00:59:43.039
may not work and what we thought was once we get into

00:59:43.039 --> 00:59:44.039
landscape streetscape

00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:47.010
identify those corridors as part of a as part of the plan

00:59:47.010 --> 00:59:48.079
and if that's how we

00:59:48.079 --> 00:59:51.690
want to set the streetscape do that as part of a as a

00:59:51.690 --> 00:59:53.199
separate section of the

00:59:53.199 --> 00:59:56.019
code rather than a whole separate zoning district and so

00:59:56.019 --> 00:59:57.039
whatever whatever

00:59:57.039 --> 01:00:00.440
criteria would be required based on that street type that

01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:00.960
would be the

01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:03.650
requirement rather than specific to the zoning and so it's

01:00:03.650 --> 01:00:05.280
just sort of refining

01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:09.159
I don't think you'll see any major changes other than sort

01:00:09.159 --> 01:00:10.239
of refining and

01:00:10.239 --> 01:00:13.059
actually reducing again the number of number of districts

01:00:13.059 --> 01:00:13.960
okay yeah because

01:00:13.960 --> 01:00:16.190
that's my concern if because it doesn't look like we're

01:00:16.190 --> 01:00:16.840
seeing that as a

01:00:16.840 --> 01:00:19.880
committee again according to your plan we're starting with

01:00:19.880 --> 01:00:21.639
module 2 so that's

01:00:21.639 --> 01:00:26.210
my concern is how how much changed between what we started

01:00:26.210 --> 01:00:27.860
last year on one

01:00:27.860 --> 01:00:31.210
right now that's about the extent of it there might be some

01:00:31.210 --> 01:00:32.239
use changes as we

01:00:32.239 --> 01:00:36.000
you know progress but right now that's that's the extent of

01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:36.000
it

01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:39.829
are you bring up a good point I think that first meeting on

01:00:39.829 --> 01:00:41.840
on March 7th where

01:00:41.840 --> 01:00:45.869
we're gonna introduce module 2 we might bring because the

01:00:45.869 --> 01:00:47.679
City Council members

01:00:47.679 --> 01:00:52.639
would not have been presented it to them as well so we

01:00:52.639 --> 01:00:54.360
might include that as part

01:00:54.360 --> 01:01:01.820
of that discussion on March 7th commissioner Roselle thank

01:01:01.820 --> 01:01:02.559
you chair

01:01:02.559 --> 01:01:05.380
the this can you wonder that you're that you're on the

01:01:05.380 --> 01:01:06.960
slide that I wanted to see

01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:11.210
about the Advisory Committee this is the Advisory Committee

01:01:11.210 --> 01:01:12.760
on March 7th when we

01:01:12.760 --> 01:01:15.070
meet next meeting as a full Advisory Committee are we still

01:01:15.070 --> 01:01:15.559
gonna meet

01:01:15.559 --> 01:01:19.280
separately like we did previously where there's three of us

01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:20.280
meeting and then

01:01:20.280 --> 01:01:22.179
three of them or we all six going to meet it's my

01:01:22.179 --> 01:01:23.360
understanding the committee

01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:25.650
is made up of all six that would be most helpful to meet

01:01:25.650 --> 01:01:27.760
that way thank you I

01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:37.760
just broke this up by okay go back to that scary slide

01:01:37.760 --> 01:01:40.360
special work session

01:01:40.360 --> 01:01:47.480
which is an off P&Z dedicated just for module one following

01:01:47.480 --> 01:01:48.519
that work session

01:01:48.519 --> 01:01:51.900
we'll have a work session with City Council talk about

01:01:51.900 --> 01:01:53.239
module one and so on

01:01:53.239 --> 01:01:58.960
and so forth June 5th we'll have a recap meeting to go over

01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:00.800
it again with the

01:02:00.800 --> 01:02:06.920
City Council and P&Z proposing June 27th that looks about

01:02:06.920 --> 01:02:09.000
like three weeks to

01:02:09.000 --> 01:02:13.480
bring it forward and that will be where Tim you were

01:02:13.480 --> 01:02:16.679
talking about noticing this

01:02:16.679 --> 01:02:19.559
is the public hearing and this is we have to legally notice

01:02:19.559 --> 01:02:20.440
property owners

01:02:20.440 --> 01:02:24.000
because they they are going to be affected and again that

01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:24.880
is scheduled

01:02:24.880 --> 01:02:31.650
tentatively preliminarily June 27th about less than a month

01:02:31.650 --> 01:02:32.800
we will take it to

01:02:32.800 --> 01:02:38.320
City Council so July 17 is the date Commissioner Ellis

01:02:38.320 --> 01:02:40.199
thank you chair this

01:02:40.199 --> 01:02:43.829
is just the DDC rewrite or is the zone map change in

01:02:43.829 --> 01:02:45.119
incorporated in this as

01:02:45.119 --> 01:02:55.800
well everything everything Commissioner Smith and I come to

01:02:55.800 --> 01:02:56.159
Commissioner

01:02:56.159 --> 01:03:00.119
Rosalene thank you chair more of just a little logistical

01:03:00.119 --> 01:03:01.639
issue I guess the if

01:03:01.639 --> 01:03:06.780
others there's one councilwoman McGarry who's on the the

01:03:06.780 --> 01:03:08.280
advisory committee she

01:03:08.280 --> 01:03:12.369
is not opting for reelection so what's gonna happen how

01:03:12.369 --> 01:03:13.440
does how does what

01:03:13.440 --> 01:03:16.630
happens on that but if there's somebody who's on there now

01:03:16.630 --> 01:03:17.400
it's not gonna be on

01:03:17.400 --> 01:03:20.610
it after the election I'm gonna either turn that to Richard

01:03:20.610 --> 01:03:21.440
or I can try to

01:03:21.440 --> 01:03:26.510
attempt I know that Scott McDonald is planning on having a

01:03:26.510 --> 01:03:26.960
similar

01:03:26.960 --> 01:03:31.289
presentation City Council in that I'm no real address that

01:03:31.289 --> 01:03:32.719
yeah yeah that will

01:03:32.719 --> 01:03:36.389
have to be addressed that's a good observation just want to

01:03:36.389 --> 01:03:37.599
ask thank you

01:03:39.280 --> 01:03:45.940
Commissioner Roseau sorry I almost forgot anyways on July

01:03:45.940 --> 01:03:48.920
17th potentially the

01:03:48.920 --> 01:03:52.929
entire DDC would be implemented with that let me rephrase

01:03:52.929 --> 01:03:54.480
that these zoning

01:03:54.480 --> 01:03:57.400
changes that we've talked about the zoning map changes yes

01:03:57.400 --> 01:03:58.079
would those be

01:03:58.079 --> 01:04:01.440
adopted July 17th or those that would happen earlier as a

01:04:01.440 --> 01:04:03.280
dry 17th for all of

01:04:03.280 --> 01:04:06.909
it implementation that that's that's our plan is to do

01:04:06.909 --> 01:04:08.320
everything at one time and

01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:11.619
at that time all property owners and didn't if this goes

01:04:11.619 --> 01:04:12.559
through would

01:04:12.559 --> 01:04:16.239
switch zoning that night if not that night maybe 14 days

01:04:16.239 --> 01:04:18.119
later just per

01:04:18.119 --> 01:04:21.760
standard requirements I got you but generally in that same

01:04:21.760 --> 01:04:22.519
time frame okay

01:04:22.519 --> 01:04:25.119
thanks

01:04:27.199 --> 01:04:37.610
oh yeah we're done any other questions so what we'll do is

01:04:37.610 --> 01:04:39.119
we'll put together

01:04:39.119 --> 01:04:43.320
this plan that we've just presented we're taking it to City

01:04:43.320 --> 01:04:44.480
Council with the

01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:49.929
same intent we will then distribute the dates to everyone

01:04:49.929 --> 01:04:50.880
on the commission so

01:04:50.880 --> 01:04:55.389
you'll have that moving forward just want to make sure that

01:04:55.389 --> 01:04:56.559
that was our next

01:04:56.559 --> 01:05:01.510
step and make sure everyone's okay with having a separate

01:05:01.510 --> 01:05:02.920
meeting just

01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:08.880
specifically dedicated to the DDC piece at midnight correct

01:05:08.880 --> 01:05:11.320
okay Larry's got his

01:05:11.320 --> 01:05:16.570
calendar book to raise all right thank you all thank you

01:05:16.570 --> 01:05:18.960
Ron our next item

01:05:18.960 --> 01:05:23.989
will be to continue on with our work session on the ESA

01:05:23.989 --> 01:05:26.119
rewrite and I think

01:05:26.119 --> 01:05:30.300
the interest of time is let's take a quick break and get

01:05:30.300 --> 01:05:31.280
food while Deborah's

01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:33.760
getting set up and come back as quickly as we can so we can

01:05:33.760 --> 01:05:34.719
go all the way up to

01:05:34.719 --> 01:05:39.550
630 if necessary so I will call a recess at 512 for break

01:05:39.550 --> 01:05:40.519
for food and then we'll

01:05:40.519 --> 01:05:57.250
reconvene as soon as possible and then call us back into

01:05:57.250 --> 01:05:57.360
session our work

01:05:57.360 --> 01:06:02.679
session at 522 it has to call on Deborah for presentation

01:06:02.679 --> 01:06:05.800
of our ESA ordinance

01:06:05.800 --> 01:06:09.480
vegetation we're back in session okay good evening

01:06:09.480 --> 01:06:11.320
Commission my name is Deborah

01:06:11.320 --> 01:06:15.599
Vera with environmental services we are back to resume our

01:06:15.599 --> 01:06:17.280
conversation on the

01:06:17.280 --> 01:06:22.679
proposed amendment to sub chapter 17 I would like my goal

01:06:22.679 --> 01:06:24.079
for for this work

01:06:24.079 --> 01:06:27.599
session is just to go over some definitions that the

01:06:27.599 --> 01:06:28.760
Commission asked me

01:06:28.760 --> 01:06:33.460
to to revise and to include and I have provided those in

01:06:33.460 --> 01:06:34.880
this presentation I

01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:37.800
believe Commissioner Roselle have some questions about

01:06:37.800 --> 01:06:38.800
zoning and upland

01:06:38.800 --> 01:06:42.690
habitat I have created a map and the analysis for for him

01:06:42.690 --> 01:06:43.880
and I have provided

01:06:43.880 --> 01:06:47.679
responses for every single public comment response I have I

01:06:47.679 --> 01:06:48.559
will pull them

01:06:48.559 --> 01:06:52.760
up step is available to go one by one if that's the desire

01:06:52.760 --> 01:06:53.800
of the Commission or

01:06:53.800 --> 01:06:57.619
specific questions that you may have I also have available

01:06:57.619 --> 01:06:58.559
the previous

01:06:58.559 --> 01:07:04.239
presentation just in case we wanted to revisit that last

01:07:04.239 --> 01:07:05.639
time we spoke

01:07:05.639 --> 01:07:10.679
Commissioner Sanchez asked us to be to provide a more clear

01:07:10.679 --> 01:07:12.039
definition of what

01:07:12.039 --> 01:07:15.250
upland habitat is there was some confusion about the 10

01:07:15.250 --> 01:07:16.000
acres and being

01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:20.559
contiguous versus being remnants so we did a small tweak

01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:22.119
and pretty much we are

01:07:22.119 --> 01:07:26.010
proposing to define it as a continuous areas 10 acres or

01:07:26.010 --> 01:07:27.400
larger of cross timber

01:07:27.400 --> 01:07:36.920
habitat okay is that clear does that meet your expectations

01:07:36.920 --> 01:07:40.159
for me it's fine

01:07:40.159 --> 01:07:42.710
I think it's more it's clear because now we're talking

01:07:42.710 --> 01:07:45.039
about a 10 acre area you

01:07:45.039 --> 01:07:48.599
know as opposed to the first one it makes you wonder if it

01:07:48.599 --> 01:07:49.800
's remnants inside

01:07:49.800 --> 01:07:56.019
of 10 acres in 10 acres this will make it sure it's 10

01:07:56.019 --> 01:07:59.159
acres and above chairman

01:07:59.159 --> 01:08:03.039
strange as goes to provide a definition of why wetland is

01:08:03.039 --> 01:08:04.800
this is pretty much

01:08:04.800 --> 01:08:08.789
we had a discussion over what we thought it was a wetland

01:08:08.789 --> 01:08:11.800
but this is a more

01:08:11.800 --> 01:08:16.560
formalized definition we are proposing to include this in

01:08:16.560 --> 01:08:17.960
sub chapter 17 as

01:08:17.960 --> 01:08:21.340
well as on sub chapter 23 where all the definitions are

01:08:21.340 --> 01:08:22.760
okay will it also be in

01:08:22.760 --> 01:08:31.319
the criteria manual correct we did the analysis of what

01:08:31.319 --> 01:08:32.880
overland habitat are

01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:37.359
left in the city on the left hand side you will see the

01:08:37.359 --> 01:08:38.579
entire city what we

01:08:38.579 --> 01:08:41.649
did we grouped the zoning district by those that are

01:08:41.649 --> 01:08:43.319
completely residential

01:08:43.319 --> 01:08:50.109
those are in green then you will see in red those zoning

01:08:50.109 --> 01:08:51.600
districts that are all

01:08:51.600 --> 01:08:55.039
commercial where residential users are not allowed and then

01:08:55.039 --> 01:08:56.640
we have a mixed of

01:08:56.640 --> 01:09:00.470
zoning district that they could allow both either rest

01:09:00.470 --> 01:09:02.680
single-family duplex or

01:09:02.680 --> 01:09:11.229
multifamily and we codified those as a yellow then we

01:09:11.229 --> 01:09:14.439
analyze how much open

01:09:14.439 --> 01:09:18.640
habitat are in those three categories either residential

01:09:18.640 --> 01:09:19.640
mixed use or

01:09:19.640 --> 01:09:25.720
commercial district 7% of the open habitat is within zoning

01:09:25.720 --> 01:09:26.319
district that

01:09:26.319 --> 01:09:32.399
will allow only some sort of commercial 48% is within

01:09:32.399 --> 01:09:34.159
district that will allow

01:09:34.159 --> 01:09:39.880
residential and 45% is within zoning district that could

01:09:39.880 --> 01:09:40.800
allow both

01:09:40.800 --> 01:09:44.159
residential or commercial at this point because those

01:09:44.159 --> 01:09:45.680
zoning district allows

01:09:45.680 --> 01:09:50.130
both activities we will not know how those as districts or

01:09:50.130 --> 01:09:50.960
parcel will be

01:09:50.960 --> 01:10:05.239
developed until we have a proposal. Staff received some

01:10:05.239 --> 01:10:06.920
comments from from some of

01:10:06.920 --> 01:10:09.640
the of the commissioners I have been trying to send

01:10:09.640 --> 01:10:12.159
responses back however I

01:10:12.159 --> 01:10:16.590
was not able to finish all of them there was a question

01:10:16.590 --> 01:10:18.079
about the city's

01:10:18.079 --> 01:10:23.310
jurisdiction to regulate floodplain in the ETJ floodplain E

01:10:23.310 --> 01:10:25.479
SA this is a copy of

01:10:25.479 --> 01:10:30.479
section 551.002 of the Texas Local Government Code that

01:10:30.479 --> 01:10:31.399
talks about the

01:10:31.399 --> 01:10:36.239
protection of streams and watershed by home municipalities

01:10:36.239 --> 01:10:37.359
the reason that

01:10:37.359 --> 01:10:41.250
give us that protection is for the protections of water

01:10:41.250 --> 01:10:42.560
supply for any

01:10:42.560 --> 01:10:49.560
municipality in this case will be Ray Roberts and Lake

01:10:49.560 --> 01:10:51.119
Louisville. Provide the

01:10:51.119 --> 01:10:56.239
protection for off and may police any watersheds and it is

01:10:56.239 --> 01:10:58.239
that authority is

01:10:58.239 --> 01:11:00.800
given not only within the city limits but also inside the

01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:01.520
municipality's

01:11:01.520 --> 01:11:05.000
extraterritorial jurisdiction.

01:11:12.079 --> 01:11:16.079
There was also a question about what a structure is and

01:11:16.079 --> 01:11:17.880
this is a straight from

01:11:17.880 --> 01:11:22.319
sub chapter 23 is any edifice or any kind or any piece of

01:11:22.319 --> 01:11:23.560
work artificially

01:11:23.560 --> 01:11:26.729
built up or composed of parts joined together which require

01:11:26.729 --> 01:11:27.840
location on in or

01:11:27.840 --> 01:11:31.930
above the ground of which is attached to something having a

01:11:31.930 --> 01:11:33.199
location on in or

01:11:33.199 --> 01:11:38.369
above the ground. I believe Commissioner Sullivan have a

01:11:38.369 --> 01:11:40.680
question about swimming

01:11:40.680 --> 01:11:48.890
pools so if they were able to be allowed in the ESA because

01:11:48.890 --> 01:11:50.479
it's not considered a

01:11:50.479 --> 01:11:55.960
structure then they would be able to do that.

01:11:57.920 --> 01:12:07.609
So I'm going to switch now and I apologize to the list of

01:12:07.609 --> 01:12:11.359
public comments.

01:12:14.640 --> 01:12:22.680
So staff went went back and provide answers for every

01:12:22.680 --> 01:12:24.279
single public comment

01:12:24.279 --> 01:12:28.710
some of them staff have modified or proposing new language

01:12:28.710 --> 01:12:30.000
to address those

01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:35.760
comments. There are at least 20 instances in in in this

01:12:35.760 --> 01:12:37.840
list where staff is

01:12:37.840 --> 01:12:41.520
proposing to modify the code or the proposed language to

01:12:41.520 --> 01:12:42.760
address or to make

01:12:42.760 --> 01:12:45.779
it more clear in those instances where the first attempt

01:12:45.779 --> 01:12:47.680
was not clear enough or

01:12:47.680 --> 01:12:52.909
there were some questions about it. I don't know if you

01:12:52.909 --> 01:12:54.479
want me to go over

01:12:54.479 --> 01:13:00.380
those or how do you want it to proceed? Commissioner Ellis.

01:13:00.380 --> 01:13:01.680
Thank You Chair. I

01:13:01.680 --> 01:13:03.930
don't know the answer to that question just yet because it

01:13:03.930 --> 01:13:04.680
would be whatever

01:13:04.680 --> 01:13:08.500
the Commission wants but with regard to where it's noted

01:13:08.500 --> 01:13:10.039
that you'll be adding

01:13:10.039 --> 01:13:15.680
or changing is that something as we vote on tonight that we

01:13:15.680 --> 01:13:17.079
would have to

01:13:17.079 --> 01:13:20.380
say is a condition of what we're recommending or have you

01:13:20.380 --> 01:13:21.199
already made

01:13:21.199 --> 01:13:24.619
these changes that are noted here? Well I have not made the

01:13:24.619 --> 01:13:25.920
changes yet because I

01:13:25.920 --> 01:13:30.010
would need a recommendation to go ahead but what we can do

01:13:30.010 --> 01:13:31.560
is because I have the

01:13:31.560 --> 01:13:36.010
sessions that they pertain to we can if the Commission is

01:13:36.010 --> 01:13:37.479
ready to move into a

01:13:37.479 --> 01:13:41.109
motion we can provide the list and say as amended in

01:13:41.109 --> 01:13:42.920
section such and such and

01:13:42.920 --> 01:13:46.949
then we will incorporate those changes and it would be verb

01:13:46.949 --> 01:13:48.359
atim of what is

01:13:48.359 --> 01:13:54.180
under the respond column. And just maybe to jump on what

01:13:54.180 --> 01:13:55.920
you're saying I believe

01:13:55.920 --> 01:14:01.060
you could you could approve the the changes in whole or you

01:14:01.060 --> 01:14:02.319
can take them

01:14:02.319 --> 01:14:06.239
item by item like that there remains a discretion of the

01:14:06.239 --> 01:14:06.960
Council of the

01:14:06.960 --> 01:14:09.239
Commission.

01:14:12.920 --> 01:14:20.119
Commissioner Roselle. Thank you Chair.

01:14:25.840 --> 01:14:30.050
So very helpful to have the responses here and I appreciate

01:14:30.050 --> 01:14:31.760
that looks like a

01:14:31.760 --> 01:14:36.039
lot of work so I appreciate that. On number eight legal

01:14:36.039 --> 01:14:37.239
counsel's researching

01:14:37.239 --> 01:14:40.420
procedural options I know we talked about this extensively

01:14:40.420 --> 01:14:41.520
if the alternative

01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:46.520
ESA should appropriately come through the P&Z as a zoning

01:14:46.520 --> 01:14:47.680
case is there an

01:14:47.680 --> 01:14:55.010
update on legal's opinion? So I think Mr. Beck you brought

01:14:55.010 --> 01:14:56.319
the same the same

01:14:56.319 --> 01:15:00.279
question and so let me see if I can if I can address that

01:15:00.279 --> 01:15:06.279
succinctly. As I

01:15:06.279 --> 01:15:09.640
mentioned previously just making sure what we're clear with

01:15:09.640 --> 01:15:10.239
that this

01:15:10.239 --> 01:15:18.159
pertains to alternative ESA plans because the designation

01:15:18.159 --> 01:15:20.399
of an ESA the

01:15:20.399 --> 01:15:24.119
determination of an ESA that appeal process is still being

01:15:24.119 --> 01:15:24.960
presented through

01:15:24.960 --> 01:15:31.039
zoning Board of Adjustment and the rationale behind that is

01:15:31.039 --> 01:15:32.199
because the

01:15:32.199 --> 01:15:35.909
determination of an ESA kind of limits staff to review the

01:15:35.909 --> 01:15:37.840
parameters of some

01:15:37.840 --> 01:15:40.579
whatever federal regulations they review and that's how

01:15:40.579 --> 01:15:42.039
they determine if it is

01:15:42.039 --> 01:15:45.880
or is not. Now the planning portion just like this

01:15:45.880 --> 01:15:47.399
Commission is charged with

01:15:47.399 --> 01:15:52.149
it's charged with planning and zoning and so it's permitted

01:15:52.149 --> 01:15:53.359
to be reviewed

01:15:53.359 --> 01:15:59.560
under this board under the City Council's ultimate

01:15:59.560 --> 01:16:02.619
authority to determine all

01:16:02.619 --> 01:16:05.199
things planning and zoning. They've delegated that to this

01:16:05.199 --> 01:16:05.840
Commission and

01:16:05.840 --> 01:16:12.159
therefore it would be an appropriate venue for that review.

01:16:12.159 --> 01:16:13.239
Whether it's more

01:16:13.239 --> 01:16:20.180
appropriate than Zoning Board of Adjustment that's what it

01:16:20.180 --> 01:16:22.319
's counseled to decide

01:16:22.319 --> 01:16:27.989
but it is it is an appropriate venue at P&Z for sure. I

01:16:27.989 --> 01:16:29.960
think that makes sense

01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:35.380
thanks. No I can clarify further if us attorneys have way

01:16:35.380 --> 01:16:37.319
of talking. Well there was and

01:16:37.319 --> 01:16:41.159
maybe chair or Commissioner Beck can refresh my memory

01:16:41.159 --> 01:16:44.239
there was concern about the

01:16:44.239 --> 01:16:49.800
historical political aspect of individuals coming before

01:16:49.800 --> 01:16:50.680
the Commission

01:16:50.680 --> 01:16:59.020
to do an alternative ESA just because it seems as a public

01:16:59.020 --> 01:17:02.039
venue to kind of get

01:17:02.039 --> 01:17:04.560
cloudy sometimes or it seems to be a straightforward

01:17:04.560 --> 01:17:05.720
mitigation type

01:17:05.720 --> 01:17:09.300
requirement in most cases and so I believe Mr. Allison from

01:17:09.300 --> 01:17:10.159
the public was

01:17:10.159 --> 01:17:14.079
here and spoke about this about it not needing to come

01:17:14.079 --> 01:17:15.640
before zoning public

01:17:15.640 --> 01:17:20.710
hearing item and I was wondering if if that is under our

01:17:20.710 --> 01:17:22.720
purview to determine

01:17:22.720 --> 01:17:28.000
the route in which an alternative ESA gets approved or does

01:17:28.000 --> 01:17:29.920
it have to legally

01:17:29.920 --> 01:17:36.479
it has to come to P&Z and then to City Council. Well again

01:17:36.479 --> 01:17:37.640
the Hatch in this way

01:17:37.640 --> 01:17:41.909
the P&Z has the full authority to review alternative ESA

01:17:41.909 --> 01:17:44.920
plans so maybe I'll be

01:17:44.920 --> 01:17:47.000
clear that way it does have the full authority to do that

01:17:47.000 --> 01:17:48.640
and that story has been

01:17:48.640 --> 01:17:53.439
delegated by the City Council. Currently the way it's

01:17:53.439 --> 01:17:57.159
written this council is

01:17:57.159 --> 01:18:00.199
charged with reviewing those any amendment to that would

01:18:00.199 --> 01:18:00.840
have to ultimately

01:18:00.840 --> 01:18:06.069
be approved by City Council. So if the Commission wanted to

01:18:06.069 --> 01:18:07.800
find an alternative

01:18:07.800 --> 01:18:14.170
route to file an alternative ESA that would be separate

01:18:14.170 --> 01:18:16.800
from this ESA rewrite

01:18:16.800 --> 01:18:21.970
or repeal that would be a different item that we need to

01:18:21.970 --> 01:18:23.640
bring to council

01:18:23.640 --> 01:18:28.710
separately from this? Not necessarily no you could you

01:18:28.710 --> 01:18:29.880
could it could be a part

01:18:29.880 --> 01:18:33.789
of the ESA rewrite or you could approve it as is and then

01:18:33.789 --> 01:18:35.720
maybe revisit it later.

01:18:35.720 --> 01:18:42.090
But in either case it would be an amendment that would have

01:18:42.090 --> 01:18:43.119
to be approved by City Council.

01:18:43.119 --> 01:18:48.399
Okay that makes much more sense thank you.

01:18:48.399 --> 01:18:52.829
Commissioner Beck. Thank you chair and correct me if I'm

01:18:52.829 --> 01:18:54.960
wrong Victor but what you

01:18:54.960 --> 01:18:58.479
were telling me a while ago too that if it stays in the

01:18:58.479 --> 01:19:01.039
domain of P&Z then it

01:19:01.039 --> 01:19:06.609
takes just a simple majority to approve an AESA? At this

01:19:06.609 --> 01:19:08.079
level correct. Right but

01:19:08.079 --> 01:19:12.720
if it goes to ZBA it requires a super majority. It items

01:19:12.720 --> 01:19:16.520
going before ZBA or

01:19:16.520 --> 01:19:19.229
that's regulated by state statute and state statute

01:19:19.229 --> 01:19:20.920
requires a majority. Okay

01:19:20.920 --> 01:19:24.119
so personally I'd like to see it stay in our domain but I

01:19:24.119 --> 01:19:25.600
would think developers

01:19:25.600 --> 01:19:28.600
probably would too because it's an advantage to them that

01:19:28.600 --> 01:19:29.199
they don't have

01:19:29.199 --> 01:19:34.149
to fight a super majority versus just a basic majority.

01:19:34.149 --> 01:19:35.279
Correct. That's just and and

01:19:35.279 --> 01:19:38.199
to make that conversation complete there is a super

01:19:38.199 --> 01:19:39.439
majority requirement if it's

01:19:39.439 --> 01:19:45.810
denied by this board but nonetheless yes. I'd like to

01:19:45.810 --> 01:19:48.760
comment on item 8 I think

01:19:48.760 --> 01:19:52.979
the discussion is good I'd like to see it stay before P&Z.

01:19:52.979 --> 01:19:54.319
One of the concerns I

01:19:54.319 --> 01:19:58.859
have is it is somewhat of a nebulous standard to me it's

01:19:58.859 --> 01:20:01.359
subjective. It is not

01:20:01.359 --> 01:20:04.880
like we have in a lot of our other entrances that if you

01:20:04.880 --> 01:20:05.960
want to take out

01:20:05.960 --> 01:20:12.359
X number of caliper inches and canopy certain grass or

01:20:12.359 --> 01:20:14.420
whatever you have to do

01:20:14.420 --> 01:20:18.510
two to one or whatever and you do that and it's good it is

01:20:18.510 --> 01:20:19.600
a subjective process

01:20:19.600 --> 01:20:24.409
as I recall of trying to find a balance to satisfy staff to

01:20:24.409 --> 01:20:26.079
then bring it versus

01:20:26.079 --> 01:20:31.859
if you want to take out one tree you must provide four. I

01:20:31.859 --> 01:20:33.960
don't recall there

01:20:33.960 --> 01:20:41.039
being a very specific guidelines that if you want to do

01:20:41.039 --> 01:20:41.960
that or need to do that

01:20:41.960 --> 01:20:46.079
in your project this is what you do. Is it in my along the

01:20:46.079 --> 01:20:47.680
lines of the current

01:20:47.680 --> 01:20:51.869
and proposed procedure? The we for the first time we are

01:20:51.869 --> 01:20:53.319
adding criteria for

01:20:53.319 --> 01:20:56.399
approving an alternative ASA plan and I might be able to

01:20:56.399 --> 01:20:57.920
pull that language from

01:20:57.920 --> 01:21:05.229
the previous presentation. I believe providing in some

01:21:05.229 --> 01:21:07.319
instances for example

01:21:07.319 --> 01:21:11.819
when somebody is removing a repair and buffer and they don

01:21:11.819 --> 01:21:12.760
't have nothing else

01:21:12.760 --> 01:21:17.489
to mitigate another repair and buffer to mitigate and might

01:21:17.489 --> 01:21:18.600
go to a upland

01:21:18.600 --> 01:21:21.810
habitat and say well we will preserve above and beyond what

01:21:21.810 --> 01:21:23.800
we are required to

01:21:23.800 --> 01:21:29.680
mitigate for the for the repair and buffer. We try to what

01:21:29.680 --> 01:21:31.319
I call find a

01:21:31.319 --> 01:21:34.229
common currency between the two because there are different

01:21:34.229 --> 01:21:35.119
habitats different

01:21:35.119 --> 01:21:39.550
functions and so on but I believe that my recommendation

01:21:39.550 --> 01:21:40.920
always be you start

01:21:40.920 --> 01:21:44.550
working with what you have on your property. So in those

01:21:44.550 --> 01:21:45.960
instances because

01:21:45.960 --> 01:21:50.279
sometimes that the habitats are so different and sometimes

01:21:50.279 --> 01:21:51.319
the habitat that

01:21:51.319 --> 01:21:54.140
you have is not upland habitat you don't have trees you may

01:21:54.140 --> 01:21:55.319
have water related and

01:21:55.319 --> 01:22:00.989
so on. So establishing a specific quota in those instances

01:22:00.989 --> 01:22:03.239
is kind of hard. That's

01:22:03.239 --> 01:22:09.310
why staff left that open without not defining. However if

01:22:09.310 --> 01:22:10.439
that's something

01:22:10.439 --> 01:22:17.479
that you would like to be more specific and make a motion

01:22:17.479 --> 01:22:19.720
to include that we can

01:22:19.720 --> 01:22:23.239
certainly take that and move it forward to City Council.

01:22:23.239 --> 01:22:24.359
But the reason why we

01:22:24.359 --> 01:22:29.960
didn't specify quotas for for for mitigation is because

01:22:29.960 --> 01:22:32.760
sometimes you have

01:22:32.760 --> 01:22:35.720
to be a little bit flexible and creative depending on what

01:22:35.720 --> 01:22:36.359
you got on your

01:22:36.359 --> 01:22:40.069
property. Sure understand that completely and appreciate

01:22:40.069 --> 01:22:41.319
that in the cases where

01:22:41.319 --> 01:22:47.600
we don't have that where it is all upland or it's all water

01:22:47.600 --> 01:22:48.479
and you need to

01:22:48.479 --> 01:22:52.800
the street or whatever it seems like those we could define

01:22:52.800 --> 01:22:53.520
it that if you're

01:22:53.520 --> 01:22:56.729
doing it in this type of environmental area here's what you

01:22:56.729 --> 01:22:57.560
have to do if it's

01:22:57.560 --> 01:23:00.460
in that type of environmental area that's what you have to

01:23:00.460 --> 01:23:01.199
do and then to

01:23:01.199 --> 01:23:04.960
your point it totally changes the character of the area

01:23:04.960 --> 01:23:06.079
well then those are

01:23:06.079 --> 01:23:08.159
the gray areas that we leave the staff to say you know what

01:23:08.159 --> 01:23:08.960
this is an out-of-the-box

01:23:08.960 --> 01:23:13.489
situation and we'll figure it out because I know in the

01:23:13.489 --> 01:23:15.119
past we've had

01:23:15.119 --> 01:23:17.359
projects coming on I don't know how long people may have

01:23:17.359 --> 01:23:19.800
taken to put together a

01:23:19.800 --> 01:23:23.430
plan and what they've spent to try to work something just

01:23:23.430 --> 01:23:24.760
to come here go yeah

01:23:24.760 --> 01:23:29.930
don't like it and I don't know that that's served us well

01:23:29.930 --> 01:23:31.600
as a commission I

01:23:31.600 --> 01:23:34.670
think as a city we should have a very defined process just

01:23:34.670 --> 01:23:35.600
like we do on so

01:23:35.600 --> 01:23:38.850
many other things across our ordinances that if you want to

01:23:38.850 --> 01:23:40.199
do this certain size

01:23:40.199 --> 01:23:43.500
streets or certain size sidewalks and all those types of

01:23:43.500 --> 01:23:44.560
things it's very

01:23:44.560 --> 01:23:48.319
defined what you have to do but in these instances it's not

01:23:48.319 --> 01:23:49.560
and I think it puts

01:23:49.560 --> 01:23:54.060
us into a lot of questionable areas and it creates a lot of

01:23:54.060 --> 01:23:55.279
additional time

01:23:55.279 --> 01:23:58.909
expense that could be very clearly outlined that in these

01:23:58.909 --> 01:23:59.880
cases it's this

01:23:59.880 --> 01:24:03.079
this and this and if it's an outlier to your point we got

01:24:03.079 --> 01:24:03.840
to figure something

01:24:03.840 --> 01:24:06.739
else out so I think that would be something good for us to

01:24:06.739 --> 01:24:07.359
talk about in

01:24:07.359 --> 01:24:11.000
public session to maybe add that to motion we get to that

01:24:11.000 --> 01:24:11.920
this evening

01:24:11.920 --> 01:24:17.600
Commissioner Ellis thank you chair I guess my opinion and

01:24:17.600 --> 01:24:18.720
get Deborah's

01:24:18.720 --> 01:24:22.229
opinion I mean I guess the goal of ESA's are not for them

01:24:22.229 --> 01:24:23.079
not to be disturbed

01:24:23.079 --> 01:24:27.319
right and so I don't know that we want to make it easy with

01:24:27.319 --> 01:24:29.399
an alternative ESA

01:24:29.399 --> 01:24:34.520
plan so that we get into that they're always being

01:24:34.520 --> 01:24:37.119
converted in some way so I

01:24:37.119 --> 01:24:44.810
guess I can understand why why staff doesn't have super

01:24:44.810 --> 01:24:48.000
specific things to do

01:24:48.000 --> 01:24:51.170
for an alternative ESA because every site's different every

01:24:51.170 --> 01:24:52.000
sites gonna have

01:24:52.000 --> 01:24:54.640
something different on it and it would I would think have

01:24:54.640 --> 01:24:55.560
to be a collaborative

01:24:55.560 --> 01:24:59.380
effort with the development and the environmental services

01:24:59.380 --> 01:25:00.720
department I mean

01:25:00.720 --> 01:25:05.949
that's how I look at it so I don't know help help me to I

01:25:05.949 --> 01:25:06.880
guess see it different

01:25:06.880 --> 01:25:12.199
if sure let's talk about I appreciate the comment I guess

01:25:12.199 --> 01:25:14.079
how I would see it

01:25:14.079 --> 01:25:18.510
and maybe respond to your comment is we have areas in this

01:25:18.510 --> 01:25:19.640
exact code that talks

01:25:19.640 --> 01:25:22.069
about if you have utility improvements and those types of

01:25:22.069 --> 01:25:22.800
things that are

01:25:22.800 --> 01:25:26.500
necessary part to serve is very defined you have to re

01:25:26.500 --> 01:25:27.479
vegetate it and put it

01:25:27.479 --> 01:25:30.649
back pretty close to the natural state it's defined and I

01:25:30.649 --> 01:25:31.720
that's where I'm

01:25:31.720 --> 01:25:35.060
going is we can do it in that instance but we can't do it

01:25:35.060 --> 01:25:36.359
in other places and

01:25:36.359 --> 01:25:39.489
it makes it very subjective and it becomes a political

01:25:39.489 --> 01:25:40.720
issue versus a very

01:25:40.720 --> 01:25:44.880
defined hey if you need to it's not saying you can take the

01:25:44.880 --> 01:25:46.239
whole thing out

01:25:46.239 --> 01:25:51.189
but I think it should be somewhat defined that it makes it

01:25:51.189 --> 01:25:51.920
more of a

01:25:51.920 --> 01:25:58.989
workable and and probable determination of if you have to

01:25:58.989 --> 01:26:00.079
put up street or a

01:26:00.079 --> 01:26:02.810
utility or whatever through there this is what you need to

01:26:02.810 --> 01:26:03.600
do to be able to do

01:26:03.600 --> 01:26:06.149
it and becomes more of an administrative like when we do

01:26:06.149 --> 01:26:06.600
plaques

01:26:06.600 --> 01:26:09.479
comes before us here the criteria you need to meet them if

01:26:09.479 --> 01:26:10.640
you meet them it's

01:26:10.640 --> 01:26:15.920
proof versus the you know spend a lot of time and effort

01:26:15.920 --> 01:26:16.640
and we may or may not

01:26:16.640 --> 01:26:21.159
like it and not agree to it so that would be my thought

01:26:21.159 --> 01:26:22.479
process on that may

01:26:22.479 --> 01:26:26.640
be different than other commissioners but that's mine on

01:26:26.640 --> 01:26:28.840
that particular issue

01:26:30.359 --> 01:26:35.199
Commissioner Ellis thank you okay so so you said it's

01:26:35.199 --> 01:26:36.960
defined yeah if it gets

01:26:36.960 --> 01:26:40.109
disturbed to put in a sewer or whatever but you're putting

01:26:40.109 --> 01:26:41.680
it back you're not

01:26:41.680 --> 01:26:47.439
really taking it out permanently yeah well I think what the

01:26:47.439 --> 01:26:48.279
ordinance says is

01:26:48.279 --> 01:26:52.369
that it has to be contiguous I believe was what the

01:26:52.369 --> 01:26:53.600
ordinance says is if you

01:26:53.600 --> 01:26:56.550
have to do for Oberlin habitat that's that would be the

01:26:56.550 --> 01:26:57.800
case it needs to be

01:26:57.800 --> 01:27:00.300
contiguous to the other environment you can't just say that

01:27:00.300 --> 01:27:01.079
well I'm gonna put

01:27:01.079 --> 01:27:06.199
it over there it has to be like a utility road or something

01:27:06.199 --> 01:27:07.399
else yeah you

01:27:07.399 --> 01:27:10.920
have to put it back and it has to be part of the existing

01:27:10.920 --> 01:27:12.359
the essay area and

01:27:12.359 --> 01:27:15.710
so that's what this my thought about it is to try to work

01:27:15.710 --> 01:27:16.640
up make it more

01:27:16.640 --> 01:27:20.319
workable and more defined that you can look at it and

01:27:20.319 --> 01:27:22.800
decide you know this is a

01:27:22.800 --> 01:27:26.500
something that's worth the time in the effort to do or it's

01:27:26.500 --> 01:27:28.000
a pass on the

01:27:28.000 --> 01:27:31.130
front end rather than six months and tens of thousands of

01:27:31.130 --> 01:27:32.000
dollars later

01:27:32.000 --> 01:27:35.979
Commissioner Ellis thank you chair and I and I bet I

01:27:35.979 --> 01:27:38.520
understand too but when

01:27:38.520 --> 01:27:41.520
someone comes in with their development they don't they don

01:27:41.520 --> 01:27:42.600
't necessarily know

01:27:42.600 --> 01:27:45.359
what percentage of an ESA maybe they're going to affect by

01:27:45.359 --> 01:27:46.479
because of this road

01:27:46.479 --> 01:27:49.539
the way it's coming in and what they're gonna affect and

01:27:49.539 --> 01:27:50.760
take out I don't know

01:27:50.760 --> 01:27:55.090
if staff could come up with it with a defined you know this

01:27:55.090 --> 01:27:56.399
is what you have

01:27:56.399 --> 01:28:01.100
to do because every it all varies right I mean site by site

01:28:01.100 --> 01:28:02.720
project by project I

01:28:02.720 --> 01:28:07.720
mean I don't know how you would come to those specifics of

01:28:07.720 --> 01:28:08.880
you know without

01:28:08.880 --> 01:28:14.949
doing it on a case-by-case basis well that was my recommend

01:28:14.949 --> 01:28:16.199
or just thrown out

01:28:16.199 --> 01:28:18.659
for discussion since we're in work session is that you do

01:28:18.659 --> 01:28:19.199
within the

01:28:19.199 --> 01:28:23.170
environmental type area so if you have upland habitat you

01:28:23.170 --> 01:28:23.960
have to do it and

01:28:23.960 --> 01:28:26.680
restore it to like an upland habitat type if it's a rip

01:28:26.680 --> 01:28:28.359
arian buffer whatever

01:28:28.359 --> 01:28:30.739
those are that those are defined within and then went to

01:28:30.739 --> 01:28:31.600
your point if it's

01:28:31.600 --> 01:28:33.850
something else that you have a little bitty piece and that

01:28:33.850 --> 01:28:34.479
's right in the

01:28:34.479 --> 01:28:38.479
middle of a road and it is no longer going to be there then

01:28:38.479 --> 01:28:39.399
that's the gray

01:28:39.399 --> 01:28:44.090
area that staff comes in says okay you had a wetland hole

01:28:44.090 --> 01:28:45.640
here and the road

01:28:45.640 --> 01:28:48.199
goes right through the middle of it and it goes away so you

01:28:48.199 --> 01:28:49.119
don't believe it and

01:28:49.119 --> 01:28:52.149
you're gonna go do something else and work out with staff

01:28:52.149 --> 01:28:53.279
to maybe plant trees

01:28:53.279 --> 01:28:57.100
and an open space or whatever the case may be those become

01:28:57.100 --> 01:28:57.880
the gray areas

01:28:57.880 --> 01:29:02.939
rather than it there's no real standards of how do you

01:29:02.939 --> 01:29:04.079
mitigate and do something

01:29:04.079 --> 01:29:08.199
different on in each individual environmental area

01:29:08.199 --> 01:29:09.359
commissioner Ellis

01:29:09.359 --> 01:29:14.960
thank you do we need to define them when a alternative ESA

01:29:14.960 --> 01:29:18.000
is needed then yeah

01:29:18.000 --> 01:29:22.460
I'm confused because what yours you know again going back

01:29:22.460 --> 01:29:23.119
to my original point

01:29:23.119 --> 01:29:25.750
was you really don't ever want to disturb them I mean the

01:29:25.750 --> 01:29:26.479
goal is to not

01:29:26.479 --> 01:29:31.010
disturb them because they serve a role in protecting our

01:29:31.010 --> 01:29:32.119
water supply and

01:29:32.119 --> 01:29:36.920
whatnot air quality etc so the goal is not necessarily to

01:29:36.920 --> 01:29:38.159
remove them and if

01:29:38.159 --> 01:29:42.140
you do end up putting a road to just mimic that somewhere

01:29:42.140 --> 01:29:43.159
else doesn't

01:29:43.159 --> 01:29:47.470
necessarily work with the way an environmental sensitive

01:29:47.470 --> 01:29:49.039
area works and you

01:29:49.039 --> 01:29:52.420
can't just remake it over in another corner so again

01:29:52.420 --> 01:29:53.800
getting to back to my

01:29:53.800 --> 01:29:57.619
point of I don't know if we could come up with those

01:29:57.619 --> 01:30:01.520
specifics and serve every

01:30:01.520 --> 01:30:09.729
site properly okay Commissioner Sanchez one of the things I

01:30:09.729 --> 01:30:11.079
think we leave out

01:30:11.079 --> 01:30:14.899
when we talk about habitat is basically fragmentation you

01:30:14.899 --> 01:30:15.800
know and I think

01:30:15.800 --> 01:30:19.640
that's a big part when you're talking about it an urban

01:30:19.640 --> 01:30:22.479
urban situation all

01:30:22.479 --> 01:30:25.649
our habitat is really fragmented so to think that you're

01:30:25.649 --> 01:30:26.720
gonna save something

01:30:26.720 --> 01:30:30.350
you know you're gonna create a lot of habitat based on

01:30:30.350 --> 01:30:31.760
little spot here little

01:30:31.760 --> 01:30:34.500
spot here little spot there I mean we learned that you know

01:30:34.500 --> 01:30:34.880
all you're

01:30:34.880 --> 01:30:38.840
creating is actually a sinkhole you know species that are

01:30:38.840 --> 01:30:40.399
really endangered I'm

01:30:40.399 --> 01:30:43.409
gonna use those habitats because they're too small for us

01:30:43.409 --> 01:30:45.779
to utilize so I guess

01:30:45.779 --> 01:30:50.270
my question is I kind of find this especially in an urban

01:30:50.270 --> 01:30:51.720
situation kind of

01:30:51.720 --> 01:30:59.680
hard to talk about you're saving something because you're

01:30:59.680 --> 01:31:00.199
fra actually

01:31:00.199 --> 01:31:02.789
it's all fragmented anyway so you're not really doing a

01:31:02.789 --> 01:31:03.680
whole lot of good you

01:31:03.680 --> 01:31:06.819
might have ten acres but then if you go into those ten

01:31:06.819 --> 01:31:08.119
acres and you fragment

01:31:08.119 --> 01:31:10.640
that those ten acres you've reduced it and if there's

01:31:10.640 --> 01:31:12.520
nothing else around you're

01:31:12.520 --> 01:31:15.760
not doing a whole heck of a lot of good and the same thing

01:31:15.760 --> 01:31:16.960
happens with your

01:31:16.960 --> 01:31:21.449
your riparian areas you know if you just have a segment of

01:31:21.449 --> 01:31:23.800
Creek within this when

01:31:23.800 --> 01:31:30.649
we're talking about the urban urban areas you're not doing

01:31:30.649 --> 01:31:31.279
a whole lot of

01:31:31.279 --> 01:31:35.560
good by just creating a small little area protecting small

01:31:35.560 --> 01:31:37.600
area so I just I

01:31:37.600 --> 01:31:41.229
think we really have to visit it and spend more time and

01:31:41.229 --> 01:31:42.399
understand what

01:31:42.399 --> 01:31:46.829
fragment what effects you're having in an urban development

01:31:46.829 --> 01:31:47.840
urban urban

01:31:47.840 --> 01:31:53.069
situation and how fragmentation actually affects our our

01:31:53.069 --> 01:31:54.640
habitat or doesn't even

01:31:54.640 --> 01:31:58.060
you know what happens to a habitat once it becomes frag

01:31:58.060 --> 01:31:59.239
mented when you're

01:31:59.239 --> 01:32:02.149
talking about 10 15 acres you're not really providing

01:32:02.149 --> 01:32:03.359
habitat for a species

01:32:03.359 --> 01:32:09.560
it's already fragmented so it's a discussion that I don't

01:32:09.560 --> 01:32:09.800
really

01:32:09.800 --> 01:32:13.220
understand why we would even get into it you might have a

01:32:13.220 --> 01:32:14.880
little pond here or a

01:32:14.880 --> 01:32:18.680
little wet site here but if there's nothing close to it any

01:32:18.680 --> 01:32:20.000
species that

01:32:20.000 --> 01:32:24.720
that's going to exist there over time is going to fizzle

01:32:24.720 --> 01:32:26.760
out and those are that's

01:32:26.760 --> 01:32:30.390
why we protect those those sensitive areas because they're

01:32:30.390 --> 01:32:31.000
supposed to

01:32:31.000 --> 01:32:35.979
provide habitat for you know more sensitive species so it's

01:32:35.979 --> 01:32:37.319
it's I don't

01:32:37.319 --> 01:32:39.970
know if that even makes sense but I know we talked a lot

01:32:39.970 --> 01:32:42.239
about fragments when I was working

01:32:42.239 --> 01:32:47.210
in the biology that was a real concern is fragmentation and

01:32:47.210 --> 01:32:49.359
so this whole

01:32:49.359 --> 01:32:53.529
habitat here is fragmented and so spending so much time on

01:32:53.529 --> 01:32:54.560
these little

01:32:54.560 --> 01:32:58.850
areas doesn't really do a whole heck of a lot for for those

01:32:58.850 --> 01:33:00.640
species that you're

01:33:00.640 --> 01:33:07.270
trying to protect Commissioner Beck thank you chair I'm not

01:33:07.270 --> 01:33:08.399
sure I totally agree

01:33:08.399 --> 01:33:11.489
with the committee and mr. Sanchez is a position on frag

01:33:11.489 --> 01:33:12.960
mentation I mean if we're

01:33:12.960 --> 01:33:15.359
when we're talking about upland habitat we're talking about

01:33:15.359 --> 01:33:16.119
a contiguous 10

01:33:16.119 --> 01:33:19.800
acres that's a lot of land a lot of species can survive

01:33:19.800 --> 01:33:21.039
there and some of

01:33:21.039 --> 01:33:25.319
the species that utilize that area are transitional anyway

01:33:25.319 --> 01:33:26.359
birds for instance

01:33:26.359 --> 01:33:30.369
they'll feed on what praise there so we probably need to

01:33:30.369 --> 01:33:31.920
take a closer look I

01:33:31.920 --> 01:33:35.239
wouldn't I wouldn't set that example in stone I would

01:33:35.239 --> 01:33:36.399
dispute it and we can take

01:33:36.399 --> 01:33:39.199
a look at it and see if there is something to it but to

01:33:39.199 --> 01:33:41.319
Commissioner

01:33:41.319 --> 01:33:44.989
strength chairman training strangers just clear clarify

01:33:44.989 --> 01:33:46.119
some for me if you would

01:33:46.119 --> 01:33:51.979
sir are you concerned about those areas when we go in and

01:33:51.979 --> 01:33:54.560
develop a piece of a

01:33:54.560 --> 01:34:01.000
parcel of land where there isn't ESA I don't have a problem

01:34:01.000 --> 01:34:02.560
I think we're going

01:34:02.560 --> 01:34:05.619
to disrupt the land a little bit to put in the sewage line

01:34:05.619 --> 01:34:06.560
or utility line

01:34:06.560 --> 01:34:10.760
because we can restore that area I think satisfactorily it

01:34:10.760 --> 01:34:12.039
what becomes a problem

01:34:12.039 --> 01:34:15.069
I think to Commissioner Ellis is concerned is when you go

01:34:15.069 --> 01:34:15.760
in actually

01:34:15.760 --> 01:34:19.109
remove a chunk of land that you can't restore because you

01:34:19.109 --> 01:34:20.399
put a large building

01:34:20.399 --> 01:34:25.199
on there is that is that the dispute you're having the

01:34:25.199 --> 01:34:26.520
conflict you're having

01:34:26.520 --> 01:34:32.239
with alternate ESA is that it does limit some types of

01:34:32.239 --> 01:34:32.939
development especially

01:34:32.939 --> 01:34:36.520
when you get into you know bigger footprints does that make

01:34:36.520 --> 01:34:37.479
any sense was

01:34:37.479 --> 01:34:42.729
that sure okay your question makes perfect sense and and my

01:34:42.729 --> 01:34:43.319
point in the

01:34:43.319 --> 01:34:47.890
whole thing from a couple weeks ago and still tonight is it

01:34:47.890 --> 01:34:49.199
's a subjective

01:34:49.199 --> 01:34:54.579
process we've had them come before us before and it's

01:34:54.579 --> 01:34:56.560
always a list of well we

01:34:56.560 --> 01:34:58.829
they wanted this and we asked them for this and this and

01:34:58.829 --> 01:35:00.520
this and this there's

01:35:00.520 --> 01:35:08.220
not a description per se that you go in and say if you have

01:35:08.220 --> 01:35:09.079
to do something in

01:35:09.079 --> 01:35:15.199
a riparian whatever it is you have to recreate you know the

01:35:15.199 --> 01:35:16.119
same amount or

01:35:16.119 --> 01:35:19.550
twice as much or whatever that it's a defined process it's

01:35:19.550 --> 01:35:20.560
always seems to be

01:35:20.560 --> 01:35:24.380
an arbitrage arbitrary negotiation back and forth to try to

01:35:24.380 --> 01:35:25.359
get it and then it

01:35:25.359 --> 01:35:28.960
comes here and then it gets voted on and we decide whether

01:35:28.960 --> 01:35:30.600
we liked the deal that

01:35:30.600 --> 01:35:34.119
was made or not versus it's a really straightforward

01:35:34.119 --> 01:35:35.640
process like so many

01:35:35.640 --> 01:35:40.079
other things are that if you are going to go into that area

01:35:40.079 --> 01:35:41.119
if you need to for

01:35:41.119 --> 01:35:45.680
whatever the reason is as a property owner that there is a

01:35:45.680 --> 01:35:47.119
process for you to

01:35:47.119 --> 01:35:50.140
be able to do that under these circumstances and to meet

01:35:50.140 --> 01:35:50.520
these

01:35:50.520 --> 01:35:55.529
criteria and it's a more defined type of process and those

01:35:55.529 --> 01:35:56.960
are my concerns as I

01:35:56.960 --> 01:36:01.560
read the ordinance there's a there's a number of gray areas

01:36:01.560 --> 01:36:02.760
and that's one of

01:36:02.760 --> 01:36:06.460
them it's a very subjective it's not that it says if there

01:36:06.460 --> 01:36:07.720
are 50 of these

01:36:07.720 --> 01:36:15.020
it's this it's significant what's significant two blades

01:36:15.020 --> 01:36:16.720
one salamander I

01:36:16.720 --> 01:36:19.329
mean I don't know what significant means and so as I read

01:36:19.329 --> 01:36:21.119
the ordinance those are

01:36:21.119 --> 01:36:24.649
the things that that pop off the page and I go well first

01:36:24.649 --> 01:36:25.680
we should set here

01:36:25.680 --> 01:36:29.199
the standards and you meet the standards or not and then

01:36:29.199 --> 01:36:30.199
everybody knows what they

01:36:30.199 --> 01:36:33.109
are versus you really don't know and it's a subjective

01:36:33.109 --> 01:36:33.880
process and that's

01:36:33.880 --> 01:36:38.760
just a concern that I I have and it's along the same lines

01:36:38.760 --> 01:36:46.239
commissioner back view of it these are probably the areas

01:36:46.239 --> 01:36:46.920
that we need to

01:36:46.920 --> 01:36:49.609
discuss specifically I don't think we're going to have a

01:36:49.609 --> 01:36:50.640
hard time for talking

01:36:50.640 --> 01:36:54.920
about you know a couple of square feet and a salamander to

01:36:54.920 --> 01:36:56.239
lizards or anything

01:36:56.239 --> 01:36:58.920
like that I think we're talking about large areas because

01:36:58.920 --> 01:37:00.199
the more we lose

01:37:00.199 --> 01:37:04.630
natural ecosystems the more we really lose as a community

01:37:04.630 --> 01:37:05.720
preserving them if

01:37:05.720 --> 01:37:09.840
you call it fragmentation okay but let's take a look and

01:37:09.840 --> 01:37:10.479
see if that

01:37:10.479 --> 01:37:14.159
fragmentation does benefit us in significant ways does

01:37:14.159 --> 01:37:16.800
benefit the

01:37:16.800 --> 01:37:23.000
natural elements in that animals grass the whole combined

01:37:23.000 --> 01:37:24.680
thing yes it's

01:37:24.680 --> 01:37:27.899
probably going to be subjective I agree but I think we as a

01:37:27.899 --> 01:37:28.960
commission do that

01:37:28.960 --> 01:37:31.989
we've got the staff we've got people of authority that can

01:37:31.989 --> 01:37:33.039
come in and help us

01:37:33.039 --> 01:37:35.449
answer some of those gray areas and that's something we

01:37:35.449 --> 01:37:37.000
should debate it at

01:37:37.000 --> 01:37:40.760
those times and and then when we have the public hearing

01:37:40.760 --> 01:37:41.720
you know we can set

01:37:41.720 --> 01:37:44.810
those forth and we can hear the complaints like we usually

01:37:44.810 --> 01:37:45.520
do and weigh

01:37:45.520 --> 01:37:48.680
them against the authoritative information that we've been

01:37:48.680 --> 01:37:49.920
presented

01:37:49.920 --> 01:37:54.359
well I would agree into to some regard there's a number of

01:37:54.359 --> 01:37:55.279
different

01:37:55.279 --> 01:37:57.510
environmental areas there's a upland habitat and I think it

01:37:57.510 --> 01:37:58.039
's very easy to

01:37:58.039 --> 01:38:02.159
identify that then there are the other ones which are rip

01:38:02.159 --> 01:38:03.560
arian buffers and

01:38:03.560 --> 01:38:07.000
water-related habitat and I think Commissioner Sanchez has

01:38:07.000 --> 01:38:07.960
a great point I

01:38:07.960 --> 01:38:10.439
know I've said that a new numerous times when we've had

01:38:10.439 --> 01:38:11.600
these presentations

01:38:11.600 --> 01:38:16.039
before is we may turn down a project and so we don't want

01:38:16.039 --> 01:38:17.479
an ESA disturbed being

01:38:17.479 --> 01:38:21.569
a riparian buffer or whatever and you pull up the city map

01:38:21.569 --> 01:38:22.520
and there's

01:38:22.520 --> 01:38:25.880
streets running all through it all around the whole area

01:38:25.880 --> 01:38:26.840
and I look at it

01:38:26.840 --> 01:38:30.029
and I go I don't understand why it's okay to do it in a

01:38:30.029 --> 01:38:31.399
thousand places in

01:38:31.399 --> 01:38:35.560
our city but this one place it's not and we're gonna deny

01:38:35.560 --> 01:38:36.859
somebody the ability to

01:38:36.859 --> 01:38:39.899
develop their property because we don't want to put another

01:38:39.899 --> 01:38:41.279
road through an ESA

01:38:41.279 --> 01:38:44.300
but there's a thousand of them already done throughout our

01:38:44.300 --> 01:38:46.000
city that to me is

01:38:46.000 --> 01:38:50.140
where I have a concern when I start reading these and I

01:38:50.140 --> 01:38:51.600
know people looking

01:38:51.600 --> 01:38:54.369
and I don't understand where that guy's coming from that's

01:38:54.369 --> 01:38:55.359
where it doesn't make

01:38:55.359 --> 01:38:58.720
sense to me is that we have done it a number of places all

01:38:58.720 --> 01:39:00.000
over but for some

01:39:00.000 --> 01:39:02.899
reason in this particular instance we're going to be

01:39:02.899 --> 01:39:04.359
subjective and say no you

01:39:04.359 --> 01:39:08.789
can't do it and I think that's where if we're going to

01:39:08.789 --> 01:39:11.279
update the code it's 15

01:39:11.279 --> 01:39:14.460
years I guess since it's been done maybe it's another 15

01:39:14.460 --> 01:39:15.279
years before it gets

01:39:15.279 --> 01:39:19.079
done again I'd like to see it be good because if this is

01:39:19.079 --> 01:39:19.720
going to be the next

01:39:19.720 --> 01:39:22.720
15 years it should be really straightforward and everybody

01:39:22.720 --> 01:39:23.079
should be

01:39:23.079 --> 01:39:26.859
able to pick it up and read it and say here's what you have

01:39:26.859 --> 01:39:28.000
to do if you're

01:39:28.000 --> 01:39:30.640
going to have a piece of property that has an ESA in the

01:39:30.640 --> 01:39:31.840
city of Denton if

01:39:31.840 --> 01:39:34.569
you're going to develop it or you're going to add on to

01:39:34.569 --> 01:39:35.560
your house or what

01:39:35.560 --> 01:39:38.720
are the whatever the instance is that you know

01:39:38.720 --> 01:39:41.199
straightforward and eliminate

01:39:41.199 --> 01:39:43.989
the subjective part and we may have a philosophical

01:39:43.989 --> 01:39:45.520
difference about that and

01:39:45.520 --> 01:39:48.239
that's okay we've done that in this Commission a ton of

01:39:48.239 --> 01:39:48.920
time that's great

01:39:48.920 --> 01:39:52.760
when we can all agree and it's 7-0 but it doesn't have to

01:39:52.760 --> 01:39:54.279
be that way so that's

01:39:54.279 --> 01:39:56.600
just my point of view and looking at this and what some of

01:39:56.600 --> 01:39:57.439
my concerns are

01:39:57.439 --> 01:40:00.979
and I don't disagree with you and I know you want to get in

01:40:00.979 --> 01:40:01.039
here and I'll let you

01:40:01.039 --> 01:40:05.600
Commissioner Beck thank you and I agree with you that

01:40:05.600 --> 01:40:07.199
because of things we've

01:40:07.199 --> 01:40:11.199
done in the past it's made things tougher now I think the

01:40:11.199 --> 01:40:13.680
overall sentiment here

01:40:13.680 --> 01:40:17.409
should be if we knew now if we knew then what we know now

01:40:17.409 --> 01:40:19.039
we probably wouldn't

01:40:19.039 --> 01:40:21.529
have done a lot of these things and I think what staff and

01:40:21.529 --> 01:40:22.199
some of us are

01:40:22.199 --> 01:40:25.399
trying to do is trying to correct it before it's too late

01:40:25.399 --> 01:40:26.359
saying well we've

01:40:26.359 --> 01:40:30.390
already screwed this up you know let's it's gonna affect

01:40:30.390 --> 01:40:32.279
this so why stop us

01:40:32.279 --> 01:40:35.479
from developing because we can't because it's not really

01:40:35.479 --> 01:40:36.199
gonna hurt anything we've

01:40:36.199 --> 01:40:39.109
done in the past I think we just need to make a stronger

01:40:39.109 --> 01:40:40.720
effort to preserve what

01:40:40.720 --> 01:40:46.039
we've got left significant areas and I think the

01:40:46.039 --> 01:40:48.000
alternative ESA tries to do

01:40:48.000 --> 01:40:51.840
that I think we can be fair and not over judgmental have

01:40:51.840 --> 01:40:52.600
philosophical

01:40:52.600 --> 01:40:55.090
differences but I want to base it on the facts I want to

01:40:55.090 --> 01:40:56.279
base it on the science

01:40:56.279 --> 01:40:58.560
and I think you know when we've got that kind of

01:40:58.560 --> 01:41:00.260
information before us I think we

01:41:00.260 --> 01:41:03.000
make sound decisions that benefit everybody I do think

01:41:03.000 --> 01:41:03.960
developers are smart

01:41:03.960 --> 01:41:07.640
enough to figure out how to utilize these natural areas to

01:41:07.640 --> 01:41:08.880
their benefit and

01:41:08.880 --> 01:41:12.220
make it the value it's not always going to be easy but you

01:41:12.220 --> 01:41:12.680
know I've always said

01:41:12.680 --> 01:41:16.300
if we send a man to the moon we ought to be able to develop

01:41:16.300 --> 01:41:16.680
commercial and

01:41:16.680 --> 01:41:21.960
residential areas that coexist with us what's there already

01:41:21.960 --> 01:41:22.279
okay

01:41:22.279 --> 01:41:30.109
Commissioner Ellis thank you chair I think be going back to

01:41:30.109 --> 01:41:31.199
my point of each

01:41:31.199 --> 01:41:34.039
site being specific I don't think we really know what's

01:41:34.039 --> 01:41:35.279
there in an ESA I

01:41:35.279 --> 01:41:38.909
don't think it's possible to do what you're wanting I

01:41:38.909 --> 01:41:40.479
understand wanting

01:41:40.479 --> 01:41:44.909
that logic all lined up and so there are no surprises but I

01:41:44.909 --> 01:41:46.239
don't think I don't

01:41:46.239 --> 01:41:49.130
think it's known what's on that particular site to be able

01:41:49.130 --> 01:41:49.680
to come up

01:41:49.680 --> 01:41:55.000
with all of those so is it the process I mean is it the

01:41:55.000 --> 01:41:56.119
process of how it goes

01:41:56.119 --> 01:42:00.039
and to where it goes to public hearing and then it possible

01:42:00.039 --> 01:42:00.880
turns into a

01:42:00.880 --> 01:42:04.229
political issue is is that something that maybe we should

01:42:04.229 --> 01:42:05.239
look at that would

01:42:05.239 --> 01:42:08.409
help things I just don't think that we can define what it

01:42:08.409 --> 01:42:09.680
is you would like to

01:42:09.680 --> 01:42:13.079
find I really don't think that I don't think that's what

01:42:13.079 --> 01:42:14.199
this chapter of the

01:42:14.199 --> 01:42:19.210
code it does I think I think this chapter defines what ESA

01:42:19.210 --> 01:42:21.720
is and tries to

01:42:21.720 --> 01:42:24.930
define a way that if someone has to disturb it and again

01:42:24.930 --> 01:42:26.760
that's not what the

01:42:26.760 --> 01:42:30.390
first mode is it's to protect it but if it needs to be

01:42:30.390 --> 01:42:32.119
disturbed there is an

01:42:32.119 --> 01:42:36.210
alternative way we can do that but I don't think it can be

01:42:36.210 --> 01:42:37.279
specifically

01:42:37.279 --> 01:42:40.699
defined I just don't think that's possible until the sites

01:42:40.699 --> 01:42:41.920
there and it

01:42:41.920 --> 01:42:45.920
gets assessed and and then it has to get worked out you

01:42:45.920 --> 01:42:48.039
know you know in the best

01:42:48.039 --> 01:42:52.029
way it can with the the subject matter experts so I just

01:42:52.029 --> 01:42:53.520
don't think what you

01:42:53.520 --> 01:42:56.220
want I just don't think it can be done I don't think with

01:42:56.220 --> 01:42:57.319
all the knowledge that

01:42:57.319 --> 01:43:00.420
Deborah and all in that department have I just don't think

01:43:00.420 --> 01:43:01.000
they could come up

01:43:01.000 --> 01:43:06.529
with every possibility on every site for an ESA so maybe

01:43:06.529 --> 01:43:07.800
what we need to be

01:43:07.800 --> 01:43:12.439
looking at is is a process maybe the process isn't fair

01:43:12.439 --> 01:43:15.720
perhaps so those are

01:43:15.720 --> 01:43:20.720
my thoughts well I would share with you and I appreciate

01:43:20.720 --> 01:43:21.279
what you're saying and

01:43:21.279 --> 01:43:25.079
and I think the the ordinance is specific that if it's

01:43:25.079 --> 01:43:26.199
shown on their

01:43:26.199 --> 01:43:30.229
city staff comes out and does a free assessment and they

01:43:30.229 --> 01:43:31.640
will tell you what

01:43:31.640 --> 01:43:35.359
your you have it you don't and what type and what are the

01:43:35.359 --> 01:43:36.239
requirements of it so

01:43:36.239 --> 01:43:39.060
it can be defined fairly easily and that's a service that

01:43:39.060 --> 01:43:39.880
the city offers

01:43:39.880 --> 01:43:44.600
free of charge I believe utilized it before for neighbors

01:43:44.600 --> 01:43:45.359
and friends and said

01:43:45.359 --> 01:43:49.079
hey call Deborah ever come out and look and she'd go you

01:43:49.079 --> 01:43:49.800
don't have anything

01:43:49.800 --> 01:43:54.039
here go ahead or you do and so I think that part works and

01:43:54.039 --> 01:43:54.640
I don't have a

01:43:54.640 --> 01:43:56.880
problem I think it's a great thing that the city offers

01:43:56.880 --> 01:43:58.560
once it's determined

01:43:58.560 --> 01:44:01.920
though that's where it goes off process wise for me of

01:44:01.920 --> 01:44:04.000
being very subjective and

01:44:04.000 --> 01:44:10.220
turning into an issue that how do you once different it's

01:44:10.220 --> 01:44:12.359
not a this is what

01:44:12.359 --> 01:44:16.789
you do that's just mine it may just be me but that's my

01:44:16.789 --> 01:44:18.039
concern with my

01:44:18.039 --> 01:44:22.250
perspective and background when I read it because it's not

01:44:22.250 --> 01:44:24.159
really as I said

01:44:24.159 --> 01:44:27.789
before it's real easy when everybody throws the word

01:44:27.789 --> 01:44:29.560
developer those guys

01:44:29.560 --> 01:44:33.119
just they'll pay for it it's really the it's the property

01:44:33.119 --> 01:44:34.079
owner who has the

01:44:34.079 --> 01:44:37.850
designation on their property who bears the expense and we

01:44:37.850 --> 01:44:39.399
can put developer on

01:44:39.399 --> 01:44:43.829
it all day long but it's the property owner they pay taxes

01:44:43.829 --> 01:44:44.920
on it and all those

01:44:44.920 --> 01:44:48.010
types of things and that's where my concern is is how far

01:44:48.010 --> 01:44:48.960
are we going in

01:44:48.960 --> 01:44:53.180
there and doing that and what remedies the property owners

01:44:53.180 --> 01:44:54.359
have to do what they

01:44:54.359 --> 01:44:58.289
want to with their property for the public good but yet at

01:44:58.289 --> 01:44:59.479
what expense to

01:44:59.479 --> 01:45:03.010
private individuals and that's just my thought and

01:45:03.010 --> 01:45:04.359
Commissioner Sanchez and

01:45:04.359 --> 01:45:09.359
anybody else's I just want it you know I think what we're

01:45:09.359 --> 01:45:11.000
talking about it's when

01:45:11.000 --> 01:45:13.840
you talk about habitat large areas we're not talking about

01:45:13.840 --> 01:45:15.159
larger is this only

01:45:15.159 --> 01:45:20.560
applies to city limits right we're not talking about

01:45:20.560 --> 01:45:24.119
outside yes for the flood

01:45:24.119 --> 01:45:28.869
plenty I say it applies in the ATJ just when you were

01:45:28.869 --> 01:45:30.039
talking about upland

01:45:30.039 --> 01:45:33.920
habitat that only applies to within the city limits right

01:45:33.920 --> 01:45:34.960
that's what I'm saying

01:45:34.960 --> 01:45:39.390
you don't have these big big areas of upland habitat within

01:45:39.390 --> 01:45:40.600
the city limits

01:45:40.600 --> 01:45:44.529
and so and that's going to be developed over time so all I

01:45:44.529 --> 01:45:45.720
'm saying is you

01:45:45.720 --> 01:45:51.510
create a lot of fragmentation and in the process you're you

01:45:51.510 --> 01:45:52.800
said well there's

01:45:52.800 --> 01:45:55.840
birds yeah there's generalist animals out there you know

01:45:55.840 --> 01:45:57.079
what we would call

01:45:57.079 --> 01:46:01.199
generalist but the ones you want to protect the habitat for

01:46:01.199 --> 01:46:02.279
is for those that

01:46:02.279 --> 01:46:04.420
aren't generalist the ones that require those type of

01:46:04.420 --> 01:46:06.039
habitats and those are the

01:46:06.039 --> 01:46:08.970
species that aren't going to I'm going to invade these

01:46:08.970 --> 01:46:10.039
small areas they need

01:46:10.039 --> 01:46:15.739
large second large peat parcels of land to exist so what

01:46:15.739 --> 01:46:16.880
you're doing is yeah

01:46:16.880 --> 01:46:19.260
you're you're protecting small areas but you're just

01:46:19.260 --> 01:46:20.279
protecting it for the

01:46:20.279 --> 01:46:25.920
generalist which they can survive anywhere so what I see is

01:46:25.920 --> 01:46:26.960
you almost

01:46:26.960 --> 01:46:30.590
have to look at this as excuse me you have to look at the

01:46:30.590 --> 01:46:31.640
within the city

01:46:31.640 --> 01:46:36.630
limits much different than you look at the you know outside

01:46:36.630 --> 01:46:37.920
where you have

01:46:37.920 --> 01:46:44.039
what's the word I want well not lake bottoms but outside

01:46:44.039 --> 01:46:44.840
the city you know

01:46:44.840 --> 01:46:48.270
where you have large parcels of land that that gets treated

01:46:48.270 --> 01:46:49.000
a whole lot

01:46:49.000 --> 01:46:51.590
different than within this and I think we're trying to

01:46:51.590 --> 01:46:52.600
apply what we would

01:46:52.600 --> 01:46:56.029
apply out there and we have large parcels of open land we

01:46:56.029 --> 01:46:56.439
're trying to

01:46:56.439 --> 01:46:58.670
apply that inside the city limits and it doesn't work

01:46:58.670 --> 01:46:59.760
because you're not going to

01:46:59.760 --> 01:47:04.319
get the same effects and and that's what we're trying to do

01:47:04.319 --> 01:47:05.600
I don't we should

01:47:05.600 --> 01:47:08.810
provide leave some of the habitat and well it's not habitat

01:47:08.810 --> 01:47:09.760
we could leave

01:47:09.760 --> 01:47:13.119
something like large require more trees require more things

01:47:13.119 --> 01:47:14.239
like that but you're

01:47:14.239 --> 01:47:18.689
still not gonna you're still not gonna create upland

01:47:18.689 --> 01:47:21.159
habitat all you're gonna

01:47:21.159 --> 01:47:24.800
do is protect certain areas upland habitat is different

01:47:24.800 --> 01:47:27.199
than just trees you

01:47:27.199 --> 01:47:30.350
have to have certain type of grasses that's when you talk

01:47:30.350 --> 01:47:31.159
about upland

01:47:31.159 --> 01:47:33.619
habitat you're talking about certain types of grasses you

01:47:33.619 --> 01:47:34.399
're talking about and

01:47:34.399 --> 01:47:37.779
you don't have it just because you know it's just not

01:47:37.779 --> 01:47:39.159
creating it not in an

01:47:39.159 --> 01:47:43.289
urban environment you were trying to go through here and I

01:47:43.289 --> 01:47:44.680
'll get back on topic

01:47:44.680 --> 01:47:47.500
and I'm probably the worst culprit of all so we'll make

01:47:47.500 --> 01:47:49.079
sure we go well we can go

01:47:49.079 --> 01:47:53.170
over line by line or you can actually highlight the points

01:47:53.170 --> 01:47:53.800
that you want to

01:47:53.800 --> 01:47:56.680
revisit is completely up to you let me recognize

01:47:56.680 --> 01:47:57.439
Commissioner O'Zell

01:47:57.439 --> 01:47:59.479
they sure I was gonna linger on this just one more moment

01:47:59.479 --> 01:48:00.159
as much as I would

01:48:00.159 --> 01:48:04.000
like to progress there's two things that's one to respond

01:48:04.000 --> 01:48:04.279
to and

01:48:04.279 --> 01:48:06.199
add my two cents to it I think it's a good conversation I

01:48:06.199 --> 01:48:06.680
don't know

01:48:06.680 --> 01:48:11.630
ultimately how it gets taken into consideration because it

01:48:11.630 --> 01:48:12.439
's your else's

01:48:12.439 --> 01:48:15.859
point it does seem like an ambiguous task to try to define

01:48:15.859 --> 01:48:16.840
but the two things

01:48:16.840 --> 01:48:20.529
that I wanted to note is one Christianer back so we should

01:48:20.529 --> 01:48:21.399
make every effort to

01:48:21.399 --> 01:48:24.159
preserve environmentally sensitive areas I wholeheartedly

01:48:24.159 --> 01:48:26.399
agree I go back to the

01:48:26.399 --> 01:48:29.489
fact that it seems like staff wants to protect at different

01:48:29.489 --> 01:48:30.560
values depending on

01:48:30.560 --> 01:48:32.789
use and I don't know if that's communicating a good message

01:48:32.789 --> 01:48:32.960
to the

01:48:32.960 --> 01:48:35.560
citizens to say commercial property don't have to keep this

01:48:35.560 --> 01:48:36.199
much habitat

01:48:36.199 --> 01:48:40.220
residents you can keep this much habitat if we're about ag

01:48:40.220 --> 01:48:41.640
nostically looking at

01:48:41.640 --> 01:48:47.000
protecting ESA's which seems to be your your contention I'm

01:48:47.000 --> 01:48:48.560
still going back to

01:48:48.560 --> 01:48:50.470
the fact that doesn't seem like the city and the way they

01:48:50.470 --> 01:48:51.199
're writing this is

01:48:51.199 --> 01:48:53.899
saying we're gonna protect them regardless of use because

01:48:53.899 --> 01:48:54.560
depending on

01:48:54.560 --> 01:48:56.789
what use a developer or property owner wants to do with

01:48:56.789 --> 01:48:58.600
that we protect habitats

01:48:58.600 --> 01:49:02.420
differently which still kind of again a second time I've

01:49:02.420 --> 01:49:03.760
put on this gives me a

01:49:03.760 --> 01:49:07.399
little friction so that's one thing the other thing

01:49:07.399 --> 01:49:09.800
Christian else you said it's not possible to do this we can

01:49:09.800 --> 01:49:10.319
't define it

01:49:10.319 --> 01:49:12.810
there's nowhere in code to do that in regards to an

01:49:12.810 --> 01:49:14.279
alternative environmentally

01:49:14.279 --> 01:49:21.609
sensitive area plan but it looks like in 3517 1b it's the

01:49:21.609 --> 01:49:22.399
exact place to do it

01:49:22.399 --> 01:49:25.819
that's that's where we we would do all these things one

01:49:25.819 --> 01:49:27.520
says mitigation goals

01:49:27.520 --> 01:49:29.909
are obtained by creating expanding or improving

01:49:29.909 --> 01:49:31.680
environmentally sensitive areas

01:49:31.680 --> 01:49:35.359
and a chair's point let's define that let's define

01:49:35.359 --> 01:49:37.399
mitigation goal if we're

01:49:37.399 --> 01:49:41.029
looking to obtain it here let's define it and and we've we

01:49:41.029 --> 01:49:42.640
've seen I've seen

01:49:42.640 --> 01:49:45.350
enough projects and I think the city's pricing of projects

01:49:45.350 --> 01:49:46.079
so we can start

01:49:46.079 --> 01:49:51.710
aggregately looking at processes we know that in Buc-E's on

01:49:51.710 --> 01:49:52.920
the riparian buffer

01:49:52.920 --> 01:49:56.770
what was good enough for P&Z was X we know that the

01:49:56.770 --> 01:49:58.920
Commission although split

01:49:58.920 --> 01:50:03.729
approved some level of definition and so it does seem

01:50:03.729 --> 01:50:05.119
possible if it was the

01:50:05.119 --> 01:50:08.750
Commission's intent to actually define these things if

01:50:08.750 --> 01:50:11.039
there's I'm not gonna

01:50:11.039 --> 01:50:12.920
spitball on all of them but if there's 50 foot of riparian

01:50:12.920 --> 01:50:13.720
buffer you're taking

01:50:13.720 --> 01:50:17.979
away mitigate it with a percent of this there's to say that

01:50:17.979 --> 01:50:19.079
it can't be done

01:50:19.079 --> 01:50:23.800
there's no there's not in code to do that might be a little

01:50:23.800 --> 01:50:24.760
short-sighted to

01:50:24.760 --> 01:50:28.960
what I'm actually reading and the potential of the

01:50:28.960 --> 01:50:30.439
Commission to actually

01:50:30.439 --> 01:50:36.510
define it commissioner Ellis thank you chair okay first of

01:50:36.510 --> 01:50:37.199
all I never said

01:50:37.199 --> 01:50:40.409
there's nowhere in the code to do that that I don't know

01:50:40.409 --> 01:50:41.439
you misheard me or

01:50:41.439 --> 01:50:44.409
certainly I did not say that I said it would be very

01:50:44.409 --> 01:50:45.800
difficult to think of

01:50:45.800 --> 01:50:49.939
everything because every site and what it's ESA on that

01:50:49.939 --> 01:50:51.439
particular site is

01:50:51.439 --> 01:50:55.960
doing has and whatnot I didn't say there was nowhere to do

01:50:55.960 --> 01:50:57.079
that I said it would

01:50:57.079 --> 01:50:59.850
be incredibly difficult to do that because I don't think we

01:50:59.850 --> 01:51:00.560
could come up

01:51:00.560 --> 01:51:05.380
with or they could come up with every scenario that's why I

01:51:05.380 --> 01:51:06.760
think the process

01:51:06.760 --> 01:51:11.020
of looking at each site if we're gonna have a section that

01:51:11.020 --> 01:51:12.760
it gets looked at

01:51:12.760 --> 01:51:17.199
see what it has see what it I think this is a compromise

01:51:17.199 --> 01:51:18.479
with regard to your

01:51:18.479 --> 01:51:22.109
point with commercial and residential and in its percentage

01:51:22.109 --> 01:51:23.479
different it's to

01:51:23.479 --> 01:51:27.560
try to make the project work so we don't we always allow

01:51:27.560 --> 01:51:28.800
for more development on

01:51:28.800 --> 01:51:31.800
a commercial site there's way more of the site used up on a

01:51:31.800 --> 01:51:32.279
commercial

01:51:32.279 --> 01:51:34.510
development than there is on a residential site so we do

01:51:34.510 --> 01:51:35.039
that all the

01:51:35.039 --> 01:51:39.869
time in city development and so I think this is if you

01:51:39.869 --> 01:51:41.319
tried to do the same

01:51:41.319 --> 01:51:44.199
thing you're not going to get a commercial project done so

01:51:44.199 --> 01:51:44.880
you do have

01:51:44.880 --> 01:51:48.720
to have a smaller percentage there with regard to I think

01:51:48.720 --> 01:51:50.039
that is what the third

01:51:50.039 --> 01:51:53.090
yeah it's to be able to get it done or the commercial sites

01:51:53.090 --> 01:51:53.840
not gonna happen so

01:51:53.840 --> 01:51:57.130
I think that's just a real-life scenario that's just the

01:51:57.130 --> 01:51:58.680
way it is and and so I

01:51:58.680 --> 01:52:02.560
think that staff's way of trying to to compromise because

01:52:02.560 --> 01:52:03.760
in the end that's

01:52:03.760 --> 01:52:06.640
what this should be it shouldn't be us versus them kind of

01:52:06.640 --> 01:52:07.479
thing it's not that

01:52:07.479 --> 01:52:12.430
the developers are evil because they want to disrupt an ESA

01:52:12.430 --> 01:52:13.800
but you know

01:52:13.800 --> 01:52:16.569
subject matter experts on ESA which is not me and probably

01:52:16.569 --> 01:52:17.560
none of us sitting

01:52:17.560 --> 01:52:23.970
here maybe you're by long you know we have to go with what

01:52:23.970 --> 01:52:24.720
what they are

01:52:24.720 --> 01:52:28.909
saying needs protection with what the developers need to

01:52:28.909 --> 01:52:30.039
get it done and come

01:52:30.039 --> 01:52:33.670
up with a compromise and to me that's what an AESA is for

01:52:33.670 --> 01:52:34.760
whether or not the

01:52:34.760 --> 01:52:38.079
process needs to be changed so it doesn't get to that

01:52:38.079 --> 01:52:39.520
heated point so that

01:52:39.520 --> 01:52:43.659
it can get to that compromise because again I just don't

01:52:43.659 --> 01:52:44.840
know they've worked

01:52:44.840 --> 01:52:47.239
on this for 13 months they could probably go back and work

01:52:47.239 --> 01:52:47.920
on it for 26

01:52:47.920 --> 01:52:52.609
more and they're not gonna be able to define the perfect

01:52:52.609 --> 01:52:53.880
scenario for every

01:52:53.880 --> 01:52:57.260
site when we're gonna disturb the one of these areas that's

01:52:57.260 --> 01:52:58.260
just my real quick

01:52:58.260 --> 01:53:02.840
chair Commissioner Oso thanks all good points thank you my

01:53:02.840 --> 01:53:03.479
point to the

01:53:03.479 --> 01:53:05.590
commercial residential let's just reduce residential it

01:53:05.590 --> 01:53:06.479
just seems odd to me the

01:53:06.479 --> 01:53:10.600
developer buys these property there's trees on it and then

01:53:10.600 --> 01:53:11.800
based on what they

01:53:11.800 --> 01:53:16.520
plan to use the the land for the city says we we value

01:53:16.520 --> 01:53:18.199
those trees differently

01:53:18.199 --> 01:53:21.619
so I'm not I understand your your perspective and I think

01:53:21.619 --> 01:53:22.439
the cities I

01:53:22.439 --> 01:53:26.069
think I get the development requirements for commercial it

01:53:26.069 --> 01:53:27.479
just seems odd to me

01:53:27.479 --> 01:53:30.600
that based on use we value the trees differently that's how

01:53:30.600 --> 01:53:31.520
it's communicated

01:53:31.520 --> 01:53:34.560
to me whether that's the intention I'm not maybe it's not

01:53:34.560 --> 01:53:35.079
that's how it's being

01:53:35.079 --> 01:53:40.090
communicated so I'm all for doing like I would prefer to

01:53:40.090 --> 01:53:41.520
reduce the residential

01:53:41.520 --> 01:53:44.420
requirement to make it equal then try I'm not advocating to

01:53:44.420 --> 01:53:45.359
raise commercial

01:53:45.359 --> 01:53:47.239
per se it's just odd to me that there's there's a

01:53:47.239 --> 01:53:48.680
difference to begin with maybe

01:53:48.680 --> 01:53:51.180
I'm the only one that's fine but that's where that's where

01:53:51.180 --> 01:53:52.000
my contention is with

01:53:52.000 --> 01:53:57.010
that I'm gonna move us forward on your list and since we're

01:53:57.010 --> 01:53:57.800
just going to it

01:53:57.800 --> 01:54:03.220
the next one I had a question on is number 22 and the

01:54:03.220 --> 01:54:04.880
response which I

01:54:04.880 --> 01:54:09.180
appreciate is in regards to what the Parks Department will

01:54:09.180 --> 01:54:11.359
accept as far as

01:54:11.359 --> 01:54:16.609
the essays and and it kind of gets back to the similar

01:54:16.609 --> 01:54:17.600
issue that well I know

01:54:17.600 --> 01:54:22.550
I've talked about before is that if anyone should champion

01:54:22.550 --> 01:54:24.000
the essays

01:54:24.000 --> 01:54:27.149
whether they be upland habitat or any of these areas it

01:54:27.149 --> 01:54:29.199
should be the city and it

01:54:29.199 --> 01:54:32.409
should be if it's public policy the city should be bearing

01:54:32.409 --> 01:54:33.439
the responsibility

01:54:33.439 --> 01:54:36.560
rather than we keep coming to individual property owners

01:54:36.560 --> 01:54:37.760
and the response here is

01:54:37.760 --> 01:54:40.970
that parks may not want it because it's got too much ESA on

01:54:40.970 --> 01:54:42.859
it and that's the

01:54:42.859 --> 01:54:48.520
concern that I have that we have with these discussions I

01:54:48.520 --> 01:54:50.439
understand the

01:54:50.439 --> 01:54:54.789
concern about preserving these things the city doesn't want

01:54:54.789 --> 01:54:56.319
to buy them parks

01:54:56.319 --> 01:55:00.750
doesn't want them but we make private individuals do it and

01:55:00.750 --> 01:55:02.479
that's where I go

01:55:02.479 --> 01:55:07.930
off the rail and go I don't get it and so I appreciate the

01:55:07.930 --> 01:55:08.880
response and it

01:55:08.880 --> 01:55:12.829
affirms the concern and the one of the points of view I

01:55:12.829 --> 01:55:14.520
have with these is that

01:55:14.520 --> 01:55:18.960
if we as a city are going to mandate these things then we

01:55:18.960 --> 01:55:20.520
should make it the

01:55:20.520 --> 01:55:23.880
public policy should be publicly wrong we're having to do

01:55:23.880 --> 01:55:25.479
them in parks up in

01:55:25.479 --> 01:55:27.739
habitat and we're booming parks and all these other things

01:55:27.739 --> 01:55:28.439
rather than keep

01:55:28.439 --> 01:55:33.479
coming to developers ie private property owners and so you

01:55:33.479 --> 01:55:34.439
guys have to do it but

01:55:34.439 --> 01:55:38.359
we aren't so that's my comment on 22 I don't know if

01:55:38.359 --> 01:55:39.840
anybody has any other ones

01:55:39.840 --> 01:55:46.039
on the list commissioner Beck thank you chair if I could

01:55:46.039 --> 01:55:46.800
and I don't mean step

01:55:46.800 --> 01:55:49.850
on anybody's toes here but if we can unless there's

01:55:49.850 --> 01:55:52.119
something else in here as

01:55:52.119 --> 01:55:56.010
far as their responses to the comments I didn't see

01:55:56.010 --> 01:55:57.720
anything that I could

01:55:57.720 --> 01:56:00.750
disagree with that we could move forward with but I would

01:56:00.750 --> 01:56:02.359
like to give mr.

01:56:02.359 --> 01:56:07.310
Allison a chance because this group DCDA provided about two

01:56:07.310 --> 01:56:08.359
-thirds of the

01:56:08.359 --> 01:56:12.199
questions here and give him an opportunity to explain to us

01:56:12.199 --> 01:56:13.079
any

01:56:13.079 --> 01:56:16.840
responses here he feels need correction or something like

01:56:16.840 --> 01:56:18.560
that because when our

01:56:18.560 --> 01:56:22.399
last PNC meeting he raised the question that he didn't feel

01:56:22.399 --> 01:56:23.119
like he got any

01:56:23.119 --> 01:56:25.880
adequate response from the city and I'd like to give him an

01:56:25.880 --> 01:56:27.359
opportunity to see

01:56:27.359 --> 01:56:30.319
if there's a need for something that could change my mind

01:56:30.319 --> 01:56:31.399
as far as all these

01:56:31.399 --> 01:56:34.479
responses go and anybody else here on the Commission does

01:56:34.479 --> 01:56:35.319
that seem reasonable

01:56:35.319 --> 01:56:39.550
on my I think we would definitely be doing that during our

01:56:39.550 --> 01:56:40.479
public meeting

01:56:40.479 --> 01:56:44.239
okay absolutely okay I thought we'd give him a shot here in

01:56:44.239 --> 01:56:47.199
the work session if

01:56:47.199 --> 01:56:50.640
we have time if we don't if we have time yeah I have a if

01:56:50.640 --> 01:56:51.359
you don't have any

01:56:51.359 --> 01:56:53.869
other I have a few other ones on the ordinance itself like

01:56:53.869 --> 01:56:54.479
say I didn't mean

01:56:54.479 --> 01:56:59.439
step anybody's toes okay does anybody else have a question

01:56:59.439 --> 01:57:00.600
on the public

01:57:00.600 --> 01:57:04.279
comments section so we can at least get through this one

01:57:04.279 --> 01:57:05.760
and I appreciate city

01:57:05.760 --> 01:57:07.960
staff taking the time to go through and give the responses

01:57:07.960 --> 01:57:08.760
I think it's helpful

01:57:08.760 --> 01:57:12.850
and it's a good example for us to set for everybody else

01:57:12.850 --> 01:57:14.239
what we ask them to

01:57:14.239 --> 01:57:20.439
do so thank you for that anybody else on public comments on

01:57:20.439 --> 01:57:20.640
the

01:57:20.640 --> 01:57:32.199
ordinance itself I think you've addressed this question

01:57:32.199 --> 01:57:35.199
that I had in

01:57:35.199 --> 01:57:43.859
section 35 17.5 D I appreciate the definition of the wet

01:57:43.859 --> 01:57:45.560
land and look

01:57:45.560 --> 01:57:49.210
forward to having that there's a there's another just a few

01:57:49.210 --> 01:57:50.239
words later it says

01:57:50.239 --> 01:57:57.449
significant stands and I just had a question of you know

01:57:57.449 --> 01:57:59.119
what what is what's

01:57:59.119 --> 01:58:02.369
the determination of significant significant is more than

01:58:02.369 --> 01:58:03.520
50% more than

01:58:03.520 --> 01:58:08.119
50% and we can definitely substitute the word significant

01:58:08.119 --> 01:58:10.720
for 50% if that's

01:58:10.720 --> 01:58:13.479
something that you would like I think it's great to

01:58:13.479 --> 01:58:14.760
quantify it so we know

01:58:14.760 --> 01:58:20.920
what it what it is I would appreciate the clarification I

01:58:20.920 --> 01:58:23.239
have a second note

01:58:23.239 --> 01:58:27.439
and I think I made comment on a couple weeks ago how is the

01:58:27.439 --> 01:58:29.760
general public or

01:58:29.760 --> 01:58:33.649
the professional communities supposed to be able to find

01:58:33.649 --> 01:58:35.319
this information and be

01:58:35.319 --> 01:58:39.350
able to incorporate it for example like in a typical phase

01:58:39.350 --> 01:58:41.920
one report I called

01:58:41.920 --> 01:58:45.880
the company that does phase ones for me and I asked what's

01:58:45.880 --> 01:58:47.119
the process you go

01:58:47.119 --> 01:58:50.390
through because we're reviewing this with an ESA and it

01:58:50.390 --> 01:58:51.119
needs to be

01:58:51.119 --> 01:58:54.800
transparent that everybody can look at because a need a

01:58:54.800 --> 01:58:56.239
phase one report is an

01:58:56.239 --> 01:58:59.750
environmental report it's a commonly you're not going to

01:58:59.750 --> 01:59:01.199
get a loan without a

01:59:01.199 --> 01:59:04.159
phase one report and it's a it's an environmental report on

01:59:04.159 --> 01:59:04.960
every piece of

01:59:04.960 --> 01:59:07.840
property that's that's up for sale or contemplating be

01:59:07.840 --> 01:59:08.920
purchased lenders

01:59:08.920 --> 01:59:13.239
require them people rely on those and close transactions

01:59:13.239 --> 01:59:14.880
based on is there

01:59:14.880 --> 01:59:20.949
environmental issue or not and the concern I have is how

01:59:20.949 --> 01:59:23.119
can people be

01:59:23.119 --> 01:59:28.199
notified of our city of dent criteria that may be different

01:59:28.199 --> 01:59:32.159
than for example

01:59:32.159 --> 01:59:36.390
the wetlands inventories and some of the typical places

01:59:36.390 --> 01:59:38.039
that all of these people

01:59:38.039 --> 01:59:42.369
go to and say that our property doesn't have it but because

01:59:42.369 --> 01:59:43.800
of our definition or

01:59:43.800 --> 01:59:46.260
what we call it doesn't show up until you've already

01:59:46.260 --> 01:59:47.560
purchased the property

01:59:47.560 --> 01:59:52.220
and then and I have an assessment and we got an ESA or

01:59:52.220 --> 01:59:55.279
whatever on it so I don't

01:59:55.279 --> 02:00:00.119
know how that gets done okay the ESA layers are available

02:00:00.119 --> 02:00:00.960
online as a part of

02:00:00.960 --> 02:00:04.960
the city interactive map that's where we provide them and

02:00:04.960 --> 02:00:05.760
accessible to the

02:00:05.760 --> 02:00:08.329
public so in that way they can zoom in zoom out and these

02:00:08.329 --> 02:00:09.520
days everything goes

02:00:09.520 --> 02:00:14.199
digital so we have that that that that information

02:00:14.199 --> 02:00:15.199
available to the public in

02:00:15.199 --> 02:00:18.829
that way most of the time when a development happens they

02:00:18.829 --> 02:00:20.520
come to us as a

02:00:20.520 --> 02:00:25.750
pretty design meeting in the in the plan popular it's too

02:00:25.750 --> 02:00:26.920
late use it by then

02:00:26.920 --> 02:00:29.710
you've already done your phase one report and you're moving

02:00:29.710 --> 02:00:30.380
on and that's

02:00:30.380 --> 02:00:33.439
where I'm trying it needs to get into something that's an

02:00:33.439 --> 02:00:34.640
indis in my opinion

02:00:34.640 --> 02:00:37.210
it needs to be something that's in an industry standard

02:00:37.210 --> 02:00:38.359
that everybody that's

02:00:38.359 --> 02:00:42.239
in the business knows how to do it versus well if you're

02:00:42.239 --> 02:00:43.319
doing it in the

02:00:43.319 --> 02:00:47.199
city of Denton you have to go to our GSI map click on this

02:00:47.199 --> 02:00:48.600
labor and click these

02:00:48.600 --> 02:00:52.560
things to be able to find it versus what they typically are

02:00:52.560 --> 02:00:53.560
going to which are

02:00:53.560 --> 02:00:58.949
all of the federal state type things to pull all of these

02:00:58.949 --> 02:01:01.520
reports that if you

02:01:01.520 --> 02:01:05.520
use the federal and the state guidelines it shows up if you

02:01:05.520 --> 02:01:06.600
use the city

02:01:06.600 --> 02:01:09.060
guidelines and those city guidelines are different than the

02:01:09.060 --> 02:01:09.920
state or the federal

02:01:09.920 --> 02:01:13.659
guidelines it doesn't show up that's what my point was a

02:01:13.659 --> 02:01:14.960
couple weeks ago and

02:01:14.960 --> 02:01:18.880
it's still today is how do people find out what our

02:01:18.880 --> 02:01:20.960
definitions of these things

02:01:20.960 --> 02:01:27.479
are in the trade areas that they go to find this

02:01:27.479 --> 02:01:29.420
information versus if you

02:01:29.420 --> 02:01:33.880
don't do business in the city of Denton you don't know um

02:01:33.880 --> 02:01:35.840
when they're doing a

02:01:35.840 --> 02:01:40.020
phase one they usually contact the city as a part of it and

02:01:40.020 --> 02:01:41.520
that is an open

02:01:41.520 --> 02:01:44.939
record request and that open record requests are actually

02:01:44.939 --> 02:01:45.680
sent out through

02:01:45.680 --> 02:01:50.630
multiple departments ours included so in those instances if

02:01:50.630 --> 02:01:51.880
we have something we

02:01:51.880 --> 02:01:56.720
will be able to have to be able to inform them but yeah we

02:01:56.720 --> 02:01:57.880
most of the time we

02:01:57.880 --> 02:02:00.949
get open record requests on a regular basis for that and

02:02:00.949 --> 02:02:02.199
that's for the purpose

02:02:02.199 --> 02:02:11.000
of conducting phase one assessments when I called the

02:02:11.000 --> 02:02:12.119
company that does these I

02:02:12.119 --> 02:02:15.489
asked them here's what we're doing how do you guys find

02:02:15.489 --> 02:02:17.279
this out the comment

02:02:17.279 --> 02:02:22.779
that came back is that as part of a phase one typically

02:02:22.779 --> 02:02:23.840
these things are not

02:02:23.840 --> 02:02:28.649
under the ASTM requirements they get done as a courtesy to

02:02:28.649 --> 02:02:29.199
go to a

02:02:29.199 --> 02:02:33.289
municipality go on the GIS website do an open records

02:02:33.289 --> 02:02:35.239
request it's not in the

02:02:35.239 --> 02:02:39.760
database at the state or the federal level that those

02:02:39.760 --> 02:02:41.319
things are incorporated

02:02:41.319 --> 02:02:46.050
I don't have as much of an issue with it if it's kind of

02:02:46.050 --> 02:02:48.000
the same thing I keep

02:02:48.000 --> 02:02:51.630
coming back if it's transparent everybody knows it's buyer-

02:02:51.630 --> 02:02:53.239
aware but if

02:02:53.239 --> 02:02:57.250
you don't until you've already purchased a property and

02:02:57.250 --> 02:02:57.840
come in for a

02:02:57.840 --> 02:03:01.050
pre-development meeting or whatever and ask the question

02:03:01.050 --> 02:03:02.880
you never know if you're

02:03:02.880 --> 02:03:06.829
not doing pre-development if you're buying an existing

02:03:06.829 --> 02:03:09.199
property it doesn't

02:03:09.199 --> 02:03:11.569
come for pre-development it's just a arms-length

02:03:11.569 --> 02:03:13.119
transaction trade property

02:03:13.119 --> 02:03:17.640
to property and you have a whatever on it so that's where I

02:03:17.640 --> 02:03:18.680
think there needs

02:03:18.680 --> 02:03:22.039
to be some mechanism that's why I've asked about the map

02:03:22.039 --> 02:03:23.119
where do you find

02:03:23.119 --> 02:03:26.539
them at where is the map and everybody can know about the

02:03:26.539 --> 02:03:27.279
map either it's

02:03:27.279 --> 02:03:30.800
somehow tied in with the state or the federal maps that

02:03:30.800 --> 02:03:32.680
these people go to to

02:03:32.680 --> 02:03:37.770
produce the reports so I think that's a process whole that

02:03:37.770 --> 02:03:40.439
we need to address in

02:03:40.439 --> 02:03:44.189
this ordinance that it becomes very straightforward and

02:03:44.189 --> 02:03:45.560
clear that that's

02:03:45.560 --> 02:03:55.039
what you have so that was one item I had

02:04:00.039 --> 02:04:02.920
Commissioner Oselle out of curiosity you know this process

02:04:02.920 --> 02:04:03.600
is there a way to

02:04:03.600 --> 02:04:07.750
submit maps to these regulatory bodies do you know what the

02:04:07.750 --> 02:04:08.520
mechanism might be

02:04:08.520 --> 02:04:12.640
to make these available I know the maps that are in these

02:04:12.640 --> 02:04:13.640
and how they're the

02:04:13.640 --> 02:04:15.869
guidelines and that's where they go to get the information

02:04:15.869 --> 02:04:16.560
but I have no idea

02:04:16.560 --> 02:04:31.319
how it is handled the next question I had was down in 37 17

02:04:31.319 --> 02:04:36.920
.7 the three I made

02:04:36.920 --> 02:04:40.720
some comments about the standards for Phil and just the

02:04:40.720 --> 02:04:41.920
note I have is our

02:04:41.920 --> 02:04:46.100
standards still says it if the lot has has got 50 cubic

02:04:46.100 --> 02:04:47.880
yards or less so my

02:04:47.880 --> 02:04:51.539
question again is if you have 50 yards of fill placed on

02:04:51.539 --> 02:04:52.800
the lot outside of the

02:04:52.800 --> 02:04:55.640
floodplain so if you have a lot that has floodplain on it

02:04:55.640 --> 02:04:57.680
you build your gravel

02:04:57.680 --> 02:04:59.909
road or your poor your driveway or build your house your

02:04:59.909 --> 02:05:01.439
barn or whatever you've

02:05:01.439 --> 02:05:07.720
exceeded your 50 yards of fill allowed on a lot or 300 per

02:05:07.720 --> 02:05:08.880
acre whatever that's

02:05:08.880 --> 02:05:12.510
greater you then are not allowed to go in and do any

02:05:12.510 --> 02:05:14.119
improvements at the end of

02:05:14.119 --> 02:05:16.680
the job cleaning up and doing your final grades and all the

02:05:16.680 --> 02:05:17.720
things that you do at

02:05:17.720 --> 02:05:22.670
the end of the project in in those areas if that fill is

02:05:22.670 --> 02:05:24.239
outside the undeveloped

02:05:24.239 --> 02:05:28.880
floodplain boundaries that does not count this is within

02:05:28.880 --> 02:05:29.600
the floodplain

02:05:29.600 --> 02:05:31.920
itself

02:05:33.520 --> 02:05:37.439
well I'm not trying to quibble with it but it says it's

02:05:37.439 --> 02:05:39.199
prohibited unless the

02:05:39.199 --> 02:05:42.399
fill on any lot it doesn't that's what my point last time

02:05:42.399 --> 02:05:44.159
is if it says it's in

02:05:44.159 --> 02:05:47.260
the floodplain then it's straightforward it says unless the

02:05:47.260 --> 02:05:50.520
fill on any lot it's

02:05:50.520 --> 02:05:53.270
not saying whether it's in or out it just says if it's on

02:05:53.270 --> 02:05:55.840
it so if you put

02:05:55.840 --> 02:06:00.270
over 50 yards of fill on the lot you can't then go in and

02:06:00.270 --> 02:06:01.640
do any work inside

02:06:01.640 --> 02:06:05.880
your you can't do 50 cubic yards or 300 cubic feet

02:06:05.880 --> 02:06:07.479
depending on the area in the

02:06:07.479 --> 02:06:10.479
floodplain because you've already exceeded the amount

02:06:10.479 --> 02:06:11.439
specified in the

02:06:11.439 --> 02:06:17.989
ordinance before a says the following are standards to fill

02:06:17.989 --> 02:06:19.039
in the undeveloped

02:06:19.039 --> 02:06:24.670
floodplain so do you want us to incorporate that into item

02:06:24.670 --> 02:06:25.960
number a as

02:06:25.960 --> 02:06:30.489
well to make it clear that is if the if the field does not

02:06:30.489 --> 02:06:31.479
happen within the

02:06:31.479 --> 02:06:36.300
boundaries of the floodplain does not count towards your

02:06:36.300 --> 02:06:39.760
limit yeah maybe just

02:06:39.760 --> 02:06:45.840
kind of the the rules of reading statutes or codes is that

02:06:45.840 --> 02:06:46.920
that first

02:06:46.920 --> 02:06:52.149
sentence would explain the scope of the following ABCD so

02:06:52.149 --> 02:06:54.920
this would apply for a

02:06:54.920 --> 02:06:57.640
fill in undeveloped floodplains it's defined there I guess

02:06:57.640 --> 02:06:58.359
what they were

02:06:58.359 --> 02:07:03.420
saying is if you want to repeat that in some sections a it

02:07:03.420 --> 02:07:04.439
's clear just want to

02:07:04.439 --> 02:07:06.979
make sure it's clear so I'm fine with it if it's by the way

02:07:06.979 --> 02:07:07.760
ordinance they're

02:07:07.760 --> 02:07:17.079
drawn I'm good the last one I had was a question was on 3g

02:07:17.079 --> 02:07:19.680
it says shall be

02:07:19.680 --> 02:07:26.359
located as far as possible versus just outside of ESA okay

02:07:26.359 --> 02:07:27.399
it's the question or

02:07:27.399 --> 02:07:34.170
comment I had on item 51 on the comment list we what we

02:07:34.170 --> 02:07:35.520
have proposed is just to

02:07:35.520 --> 02:07:40.159
clean up that even further and then we substitute that

02:07:40.159 --> 02:07:44.039
language to say item C

02:07:44.039 --> 02:07:55.149
that the the G it is now item C because we simplify that

02:07:55.149 --> 02:07:58.399
and it says field to

02:07:58.399 --> 02:08:02.079
raise elevation for building sites shall not result in

02:08:02.079 --> 02:08:03.840
point flows high runoff

02:08:03.840 --> 02:08:06.420
velocities and or significant changes in the drainage

02:08:06.420 --> 02:08:07.520
pattern that may cause

02:08:07.520 --> 02:08:10.880
erosion and loss of vegetation in environmental sensitive

02:08:10.880 --> 02:08:11.520
area located

02:08:11.520 --> 02:08:14.880
downstream of the field so what we have done based on

02:08:14.880 --> 02:08:16.359
public comment we have

02:08:16.359 --> 02:08:20.239
revised that section we simplify it and made it more

02:08:20.239 --> 02:08:21.720
shorter and also be a

02:08:21.720 --> 02:08:28.279
specific the item the original item G it was very broad

02:08:28.279 --> 02:08:30.119
stated so what we're

02:08:30.119 --> 02:08:34.550
trying to do is just to make sure that when you are if you

02:08:34.550 --> 02:08:36.319
are so that they say

02:08:36.319 --> 02:08:41.090
that's you know you are fine but just take in consideration

02:08:41.090 --> 02:08:42.039
how your drainage

02:08:42.039 --> 02:08:47.289
patterns are and so else in that way you are not

02:08:47.289 --> 02:08:49.560
concentrating flows and things

02:08:49.560 --> 02:08:55.430
like that so in high velocities they're established by the

02:08:55.430 --> 02:08:56.199
drainage criteria

02:08:56.199 --> 02:08:59.439
manual six cubic feet per second so we already have some

02:08:59.439 --> 02:09:01.159
parameters define what

02:09:01.159 --> 02:09:05.039
high velocities are and so forth so item G have been

02:09:05.039 --> 02:09:07.479
further revised and I

02:09:07.479 --> 02:09:11.430
believe is reflected in response for comment 51 in the

02:09:11.430 --> 02:09:13.159
ordinance that we have

02:09:13.159 --> 02:09:18.000
this has been revised or the no no no if the Commission

02:09:18.000 --> 02:09:19.800
approves the revisions

02:09:19.800 --> 02:09:26.170
that we made on on comment 51 then then tired added in here

02:09:26.170 --> 02:09:27.640
correct okay one

02:09:27.640 --> 02:09:30.430
between the ordinance and I didn't understand the process

02:09:30.430 --> 02:09:31.159
that we go to

02:09:31.159 --> 02:09:35.449
each of these to change the ordinance yeah so we made 20

02:09:35.449 --> 02:09:37.560
changes per the

02:09:37.560 --> 02:09:42.529
public input to make it more clear and then the last one I

02:09:42.529 --> 02:09:46.039
have is on 17.11 a

02:09:46.039 --> 02:09:51.029
it's back to what I was concerned about other earlier is

02:09:51.029 --> 02:09:52.640
the amendment procedure

02:09:52.640 --> 02:09:58.369
outlined is a flexible discretionary process and then that

02:09:58.369 --> 02:09:59.800
's where I keep

02:09:59.800 --> 02:10:02.760
coming back and would like to see somehow and make me may

02:10:02.760 --> 02:10:04.520
not get there to

02:10:04.520 --> 02:10:08.260
define what it is and take so much of it from being

02:10:08.260 --> 02:10:10.520
discretionary to here are the

02:10:10.520 --> 02:10:13.409
guidelines that you have to me and those were all the

02:10:13.409 --> 02:10:16.319
comments that I had on the

02:10:16.319 --> 02:10:20.409
ordinance I don't know if anybody else has any we're

02:10:20.409 --> 02:10:22.119
getting short on time

02:10:23.520 --> 02:10:28.470
I had a couple of Commissioner Ellis thank you chair with

02:10:28.470 --> 02:10:29.880
regard to an

02:10:29.880 --> 02:10:34.699
alternative ESA I know we haven't had any requests come

02:10:34.699 --> 02:10:36.680
before us in my almost

02:10:36.680 --> 02:10:40.710
two years sitting here so how many have you had in the last

02:10:40.710 --> 02:10:42.159
five years curious

02:10:42.159 --> 02:10:47.449
five years I would say problem alternative ESA plans

02:10:47.449 --> 02:10:49.319
probably we have a

02:10:49.319 --> 02:10:55.399
total ten multiple years so there have been some that have

02:10:55.399 --> 02:10:57.359
been started but not

02:10:57.359 --> 02:11:01.449
finished Buckeyes is one of them that started the process

02:11:01.449 --> 02:11:02.399
but didn't finish it

02:11:02.399 --> 02:11:12.170
so but yeah approved in the books I will say 10 I had a

02:11:12.170 --> 02:11:14.380
couple other questions do

02:11:14.380 --> 02:11:20.489
we have I know you gave some percentages do we have a

02:11:20.489 --> 02:11:22.560
number like of the number

02:11:22.560 --> 02:11:27.289
of acres parcels larger than 10 acres of upland habitat do

02:11:27.289 --> 02:11:30.319
we have 200 acres 2000

02:11:30.319 --> 02:11:36.840
acres designations of those would have a quantity so we

02:11:36.840 --> 02:11:38.520
have a we're dealing with

02:11:38.520 --> 02:11:45.310
a X number the of upland habitat 10 acres or larger how

02:11:45.310 --> 02:11:46.159
many of those do we

02:11:46.159 --> 02:11:51.880
have what's the total number acreage wise that we have

02:11:51.880 --> 02:11:57.680
total upland we have

02:11:57.680 --> 02:12:03.600
approximately 1800 acres 1800 1800 okay that's pretty

02:12:03.600 --> 02:12:06.520
significant amount

02:12:06.520 --> 02:12:11.470
good upland habitat only applies within the city limits so

02:12:11.470 --> 02:12:12.479
that's strictly

02:12:12.479 --> 02:12:16.800
within city limits okay and that's upland right okay

02:12:16.800 --> 02:12:20.430
Commissioner Ellis thank you chair this question for

02:12:20.430 --> 02:12:24.359
illegal Victor if we can get

02:12:24.359 --> 02:12:33.340
to consensus here a motion if we agree to the rewrite can

02:12:33.340 --> 02:12:36.000
we say as per staff

02:12:36.000 --> 02:12:38.539
notes on this document because I think it would be very

02:12:38.539 --> 02:12:39.520
difficult subject to

02:12:39.520 --> 02:12:43.949
correct subject to the notes as presented as presented in

02:12:43.949 --> 02:12:44.720
the responses

02:12:44.720 --> 02:12:50.840
okay excellent and just the the 1800 number that I gave you

02:12:50.840 --> 02:12:51.680
none of those

02:12:51.680 --> 02:12:54.890
sides have been field assessed okay this is just what the

02:12:54.890 --> 02:12:56.859
map is showing like you

02:12:56.859 --> 02:12:59.970
mentioned before sometimes we go to the side and the ESA

02:12:59.970 --> 02:13:00.960
doesn't meet the

02:13:00.960 --> 02:13:06.529
criteria species composition and so on so just this is just

02:13:06.529 --> 02:13:07.479
a preliminary number

02:13:07.479 --> 02:13:11.680
of what the map is showing at this point yeah thanks for

02:13:11.680 --> 02:13:12.920
the clarification and

02:13:12.920 --> 02:13:15.380
and that's some of my concern and it kind of goes to

02:13:15.380 --> 02:13:16.560
Commissioner Ellis's

02:13:16.560 --> 02:13:19.640
point is when it shows up on a mat there may be people that

02:13:19.640 --> 02:13:20.600
choose to go through

02:13:20.600 --> 02:13:23.960
the process and there may be people that look and go it has

02:13:23.960 --> 02:13:26.039
the essay on it that's

02:13:26.039 --> 02:13:31.289
with it it is passed so the designation itself if you know

02:13:31.289 --> 02:13:31.920
to go look for it

02:13:31.920 --> 02:13:38.819
where to go find it is a concern because you know you have

02:13:38.819 --> 02:13:39.640
an issue to deal with

02:13:39.640 --> 02:13:42.350
and how you're going to deal with it and what is it what's

02:13:42.350 --> 02:13:43.800
involved with it so I

02:13:43.800 --> 02:13:49.869
know we've run late we have a lot of do you have a comment

02:13:49.869 --> 02:13:50.560
we have a lot of

02:13:50.560 --> 02:13:53.520
people this evening in here and I'm sure we'll have some

02:13:53.520 --> 02:13:54.600
more in there so it

02:13:54.600 --> 02:14:00.670
does anybody else have a comment before we close 628 we'll

02:14:00.670 --> 02:14:01.720
close work session

02:14:01.720 --> 02:14:06.439
and reconvene as quickly as we can in council chambers

02:14:16.039 --> 02:14:18.260
good evening and welcome to the city of Denton planning and

02:14:18.260 --> 02:14:20.079
zoning Commission

02:14:20.079 --> 02:14:25.029
meeting for February 21st 2018 this meeting has duly and

02:14:25.029 --> 02:14:26.199
been duly posted

02:14:26.199 --> 02:14:30.189
and we do have a quorum present and I will call us to order

02:14:30.189 --> 02:14:31.279
at 640

02:14:31.279 --> 02:14:34.069
apologize we're running a little late with work session our

02:14:34.069 --> 02:14:35.359
first order of

02:14:35.359 --> 02:14:39.449
business will be to stand and give the pledge to the US and

02:14:39.449 --> 02:14:40.319
Texas flag

02:14:50.079 --> 02:14:54.569
and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under

02:14:54.569 --> 02:14:58.399
God indivisible with liberty and justice for all

02:15:00.880 --> 02:15:08.149
I pledge allegiance to the Texas one state under God one

02:15:08.149 --> 02:15:09.600
and indivisible

02:15:20.079 --> 02:15:30.159
the next order of business on our agenda this evening will

02:15:30.159 --> 02:15:31.039
be to consider the

02:15:31.039 --> 02:15:35.859
planning and zoning Commission meeting minute meeting

02:15:35.859 --> 02:15:37.600
minutes for February the

02:15:37.600 --> 02:15:44.199
7th 2018 Commissioner Beck I move we approve the minutes

02:15:44.199 --> 02:15:45.000
okay

02:15:45.000 --> 02:15:48.020
Commissioner Ellis thank you chair I will second okay we

02:15:48.020 --> 02:15:49.239
have a first and a

02:15:49.239 --> 02:15:55.350
second for approval as is any discussion seeing none we'll

02:15:55.350 --> 02:15:56.520
call for a vote on the

02:15:56.520 --> 02:15:58.720
board

02:16:08.399 --> 02:16:15.170
motion is going to carry five to zero with one recuse that

02:16:15.170 --> 02:16:20.500
will take us to our consent agenda and chair would

02:16:20.500 --> 02:16:23.920
entertain a motion on the consent agenda

02:16:24.399 --> 02:16:28.279
Commissioner Smith thank you chair motion approved okay

02:16:28.279 --> 02:16:29.119
Commissioner Rossell

02:16:29.119 --> 02:16:32.909
second okay we have a first and a second for approval any

02:16:32.909 --> 02:16:35.840
further discussion

02:16:36.040 --> 02:16:40.360
seeing none we'll call for a vote on the board

02:16:54.399 --> 02:16:58.680
motions going to carry six to zero

02:17:02.319 --> 02:17:06.750
our items for individual consideration if you missed our

02:17:06.750 --> 02:17:07.399
announcement and work

02:17:07.399 --> 02:17:11.850
session those have been moved to March the 7th and we will

02:17:11.850 --> 02:17:13.120
hear both of the

02:17:13.120 --> 02:17:18.959
drainage and transportation criteria updates at that time

02:17:18.959 --> 02:17:19.920
with that we will

02:17:19.920 --> 02:17:24.989
move on to our public hearings for this evening at this

02:17:24.989 --> 02:17:27.639
time I'm going to open

02:17:27.639 --> 02:17:33.090
the public hearing for Z 17 - 0 0 2 5 C and I will call on

02:17:33.090 --> 02:17:34.280
Ron to give this

02:17:34.280 --> 02:17:36.840
presentation

02:17:41.280 --> 02:17:45.360
thank you chair members of the Commission this item is for

02:17:45.360 --> 02:17:45.920
a rezoning

02:17:45.920 --> 02:17:49.090
change from an NR to neighborhood residential to zoning

02:17:49.090 --> 02:17:50.559
district to an RCC

02:17:50.559 --> 02:17:54.569
D regional center commercial downtown for approximately 88

02:17:54.569 --> 02:17:55.719
point seven acres

02:17:55.719 --> 02:17:59.600
generally located just south of US 3a University Drive and

02:17:59.600 --> 02:18:01.040
possibly 1,500 feet

02:18:01.040 --> 02:18:07.959
west of I 35 this is the former Selwyn school site that was

02:18:07.959 --> 02:18:08.559
purchased by the

02:18:08.559 --> 02:18:13.879
current property owner shown on the future land use map the

02:18:13.879 --> 02:18:15.840
subject site has

02:18:15.840 --> 02:18:19.350
two designations business innovation which is intended to

02:18:19.350 --> 02:18:20.239
be large track

02:18:20.239 --> 02:18:24.969
large development for office or employment type parks with

02:18:24.969 --> 02:18:25.959
supporting

02:18:25.959 --> 02:18:29.379
uses such as retail hotels and residential primary uses

02:18:29.379 --> 02:18:30.360
include office

02:18:30.360 --> 02:18:34.590
research development and light manufacturing it also has

02:18:34.590 --> 02:18:35.760
industrial

02:18:35.760 --> 02:18:38.920
commerce shown on the southern portion of the subject site

02:18:38.920 --> 02:18:39.719
intended for

02:18:39.719 --> 02:18:43.139
predominantly light and heavy industrial uses with

02:18:43.139 --> 02:18:44.360
wholesale and distribution

02:18:44.360 --> 02:18:50.200
distribution use as well this illustration or this slide

02:18:50.200 --> 02:18:51.479
shows that

02:18:51.479 --> 02:18:56.629
the existing zoning is NR - primarily residential again two

02:18:56.629 --> 02:18:58.079
units per acre and

02:18:58.079 --> 02:19:03.549
the proposed is our CCD which allows for a number of

02:19:03.549 --> 02:19:06.319
different uses for

02:19:06.319 --> 02:19:12.510
compatibility the area to the northwest contains single

02:19:12.510 --> 02:19:13.959
family and is zone NR

02:19:13.959 --> 02:19:19.239
- to the northeast is our CCD that currently has commercial

02:19:19.239 --> 02:19:20.239
and industrial

02:19:20.239 --> 02:19:25.049
just east of the railroad tracks to the east and south of

02:19:25.049 --> 02:19:26.840
the subject site is

02:19:26.840 --> 02:19:31.270
zone ICE that's shown here as currently undeveloped while

02:19:31.270 --> 02:19:32.879
to the west it's zone

02:19:32.879 --> 02:19:38.129
ICG that contains professional offices West Gate business

02:19:38.129 --> 02:19:39.280
park and gas well

02:19:39.280 --> 02:19:42.889
production the one gas well is shown in this general area

02:19:42.889 --> 02:19:44.319
it's also important to

02:19:44.319 --> 02:19:47.879
note that the subject site also contains a gas well which

02:19:47.879 --> 02:19:49.000
is located in this

02:19:49.000 --> 02:19:55.440
general area staff had now analyzed the subject request and

02:19:55.440 --> 02:19:56.760
properties platted

02:19:56.760 --> 02:19:59.270
as one which would create an opportunity for large-scale

02:19:59.270 --> 02:19:59.920
development

02:19:59.920 --> 02:20:04.889
again NR - is not consistent with the future land use as it

02:20:04.889 --> 02:20:06.520
would only permit

02:20:06.520 --> 02:20:10.040
single-family residential dwelling units while our CCD is a

02:20:10.040 --> 02:20:10.959
little bit more

02:20:10.959 --> 02:20:14.840
consistent in that it promotes mixed-use development which

02:20:14.840 --> 02:20:15.959
is what the future

02:20:15.959 --> 02:20:20.600
land use calls out for and again important to note that any

02:20:20.600 --> 02:20:21.239
future

02:20:21.239 --> 02:20:25.250
development that comes to the site will have to comply with

02:20:25.250 --> 02:20:26.280
buffering and

02:20:26.280 --> 02:20:31.569
screening requirements as earlier mentioned the RC CD

02:20:31.569 --> 02:20:33.000
allows for a number

02:20:33.000 --> 02:20:36.520
of different uses those include offices administrative and

02:20:36.520 --> 02:20:37.719
research facilities

02:20:37.719 --> 02:20:41.139
light manufacturing with the limitation some retail wareh

02:20:41.139 --> 02:20:42.360
ousing as well with a

02:20:42.360 --> 02:20:46.680
limitation a school and multifamily with a specific use

02:20:46.680 --> 02:20:48.520
permit or part of a mix

02:20:48.520 --> 02:20:55.350
use development mobility of the area primarily is primary

02:20:55.350 --> 02:20:57.040
arterial with

02:20:57.040 --> 02:21:02.700
University to the north it is a improved widened roadway

02:21:02.700 --> 02:21:04.479
which has six lanes

02:21:04.479 --> 02:21:10.649
approximately 135 feet of right away the subject proposal

02:21:10.649 --> 02:21:12.200
for regional center

02:21:12.200 --> 02:21:15.579
commercial of the downtown would accommodate I would be

02:21:15.579 --> 02:21:16.559
accommodated by

02:21:16.559 --> 02:21:22.239
the capacity that the that University Drive currently has

02:21:22.239 --> 02:21:23.459
there was

02:21:23.459 --> 02:21:26.450
notification sent out started out in November and as

02:21:26.450 --> 02:21:27.639
mentioned the work

02:21:27.639 --> 02:21:30.760
session this item has been postponed several times the

02:21:30.760 --> 02:21:32.239
reason for that is the

02:21:32.239 --> 02:21:35.340
applicant requested it'd be postponed to have the

02:21:35.340 --> 02:21:36.799
opportunity to talk to the

02:21:36.799 --> 02:21:40.010
razor company that owns a majority of the property adjacent

02:21:40.010 --> 02:21:40.840
to the subject

02:21:40.840 --> 02:21:47.409
site night notices were sent out to public to property

02:21:47.409 --> 02:21:48.159
owners that is

02:21:48.159 --> 02:21:51.540
within 200 feet and then 12 to property owners are

02:21:51.540 --> 02:21:53.399
residents within 500 feet

02:21:53.399 --> 02:21:58.479
we did receive a response to the turner foot legal notice

02:21:58.479 --> 02:22:00.159
this was from the razor

02:22:00.159 --> 02:22:04.270
company and their property representation is shown here in

02:22:04.270 --> 02:22:05.879
red in

02:22:05.879 --> 02:22:11.159
calculation it was calculated and it represents 61% of the

02:22:11.159 --> 02:22:12.920
property within

02:22:12.920 --> 02:22:19.040
200 feet which means that the City Council will have to

02:22:19.040 --> 02:22:20.399
have a super

02:22:20.399 --> 02:22:25.670
majority in order to approve this in favor of this rezoning

02:22:25.670 --> 02:22:27.520
request staff

02:22:27.520 --> 02:22:30.600
recommends approval of this rezoning change zoning change

02:22:30.600 --> 02:22:31.440
request that is as

02:22:31.440 --> 02:22:34.389
it conforms with the criteria outlined in the DDC then

02:22:34.389 --> 02:22:35.940
development code and is

02:22:35.940 --> 02:22:38.840
consistent with the goals and objectives of the 10 plan

02:22:38.840 --> 02:22:40.639
2030 that concludes my

02:22:40.639 --> 02:22:44.020
presentation I will be happy to answer any questions the

02:22:44.020 --> 02:22:44.920
application is also

02:22:44.920 --> 02:22:49.110
here if you have questions for her I have a question for

02:22:49.110 --> 02:22:50.600
you Ron yes sir just

02:22:50.600 --> 02:22:54.299
for not only P&Z but for those here and those who may be

02:22:54.299 --> 02:22:56.040
watching will you talk

02:22:56.040 --> 02:23:01.360
about what the approval standards will be since this is

02:23:01.360 --> 02:23:02.079
gonna have a super

02:23:02.079 --> 02:23:05.840
majority because of the 60% opposition whether for this

02:23:05.840 --> 02:23:07.040
board and if it moves

02:23:07.040 --> 02:23:11.680
on to City Council sure what we're seeking from P&Z

02:23:11.680 --> 02:23:12.120
planning zone

02:23:12.120 --> 02:23:16.319
Commission as a recommendation if it were that you

02:23:16.319 --> 02:23:18.920
recommend approval the

02:23:18.920 --> 02:23:22.920
City Council will still have to have a super majority the

02:23:22.920 --> 02:23:24.840
opposition of 61%

02:23:24.840 --> 02:23:29.799
which is more than 20% triggers that super majority at City

02:23:29.799 --> 02:23:30.600
Council great

02:23:30.600 --> 02:23:34.780
thank you very much for the clarification any question any

02:23:34.780 --> 02:23:35.239
other

02:23:35.239 --> 02:23:43.450
questions for Ron okay thank you sir okay before I call on

02:23:43.450 --> 02:23:44.239
the next person I

02:23:44.239 --> 02:23:49.959
was remiss and drawing anybody who's here or watching

02:23:49.959 --> 02:23:51.920
online to a couple of

02:23:51.920 --> 02:23:55.799
changes in our public hearing section this evening we have

02:23:55.799 --> 02:23:57.159
item C if you're

02:23:57.159 --> 02:23:59.799
here for that that's been postponed indefinitely and then

02:23:59.799 --> 02:24:01.040
we are going to be

02:24:01.040 --> 02:24:07.319
seeking a continuance for item D which is Eric Schmidt

02:24:07.319 --> 02:24:08.600
representing Marvin

02:24:08.600 --> 02:24:11.809
Jeffries that's gonna go to March the 7th and then item E

02:24:11.809 --> 02:24:12.719
is going to be

02:24:12.719 --> 02:24:15.760
Owens Ranch is going to be requested to be continued to

02:24:15.760 --> 02:24:17.659
March 21st so do want to

02:24:17.659 --> 02:24:22.239
let anybody know who may have missed or didn't pick up a

02:24:22.239 --> 02:24:23.719
copy of the agenda that

02:24:23.719 --> 02:24:26.920
those items are for us this evening to be moved so do want

02:24:26.920 --> 02:24:27.520
to let you know that

02:24:27.520 --> 02:24:29.850
so you don't sit here through all of the meeting this

02:24:29.850 --> 02:24:30.840
evening to find your

02:24:30.840 --> 02:24:35.600
item not going to be heard with that announcement we'll

02:24:35.600 --> 02:24:36.760
move on to our first

02:24:36.760 --> 02:24:43.049
card on item 5a first person I have here is Randy Rivera at

02:24:43.049 --> 02:24:46.079
111 Hillside Drive in

02:24:46.079 --> 02:24:48.799
support

02:25:01.719 --> 02:25:02.700
good evening chairman commissioners my name is Randy Rivera

02:25:02.700 --> 02:25:07.000
Milan planner with

02:25:07.000 --> 02:25:11.260
GNA consultants we're located at 111 Hillside Drive in

02:25:11.260 --> 02:25:12.840
Louisville Texas and

02:25:12.840 --> 02:25:16.129
I am here tonight on behalf of volunteer enterprises to

02:25:16.129 --> 02:25:17.639
present our request for

02:25:17.639 --> 02:25:17.639
the zoning change application for volunteer Hills the

02:25:17.639 --> 02:25:24.120
subject property Ron

02:25:24.120 --> 02:25:24.120
did a great presentation and we've enjoyed working with

02:25:24.120 --> 02:25:29.559
staff and the zoning

02:25:29.559 --> 02:25:33.209
request came about really at the beginning of probably the

02:25:33.209 --> 02:25:34.239
late summer of

02:25:34.239 --> 02:25:38.780
last year as a result of discussions with the ED the

02:25:38.780 --> 02:25:39.479
economic development

02:25:39.479 --> 02:25:46.000
department trying to you know encourage corporate style

02:25:46.000 --> 02:25:47.040
corporate campus with a

02:25:47.040 --> 02:25:51.030
mix two setting style development and they thought that

02:25:51.030 --> 02:25:51.920
this location would be

02:25:51.920 --> 02:25:55.559
appropriate and that was an encouragement to proceed

02:25:55.559 --> 02:25:56.040
forward with a

02:25:56.040 --> 02:25:58.739
zoning change tonight and we're excited to finally be here

02:25:58.739 --> 02:25:59.680
in front of you after

02:25:59.680 --> 02:26:02.479
another with some postponements and I appreciate that and I

02:26:02.479 --> 02:26:03.760
hope I can clarify

02:26:03.760 --> 02:26:06.940
any questions that you may have subject property is 1,500

02:26:06.940 --> 02:26:08.479
feet away from the 35

02:26:08.479 --> 02:26:12.260
and 380 intersection it's a general aerial I think we all

02:26:12.260 --> 02:26:13.020
know where that is

02:26:13.020 --> 02:26:16.729
located just some drone photos showing the property it's a

02:26:16.729 --> 02:26:17.760
beautiful beautiful

02:26:17.760 --> 02:26:21.360
property the school building that burned was located right

02:26:21.360 --> 02:26:22.159
here and that happened

02:26:22.159 --> 02:26:26.399
as you all know probably 2012 so this is looking to the

02:26:26.399 --> 02:26:28.239
south southwest and you

02:26:28.239 --> 02:26:30.590
can see the pond which is a great attribute a great

02:26:30.590 --> 02:26:31.840
environmental feature

02:26:31.840 --> 02:26:36.790
on the property that we would want to preserve and so this

02:26:36.790 --> 02:26:37.879
is the the hill

02:26:37.879 --> 02:26:40.520
which is the top part where the school campus used to be

02:26:40.520 --> 02:26:43.559
this is looking to the

02:26:43.559 --> 02:26:46.110
other one was southeast sorry this is the southwest and

02:26:46.110 --> 02:26:47.159
again I wanted to get a

02:26:47.159 --> 02:26:51.399
good view of the sense of the what this hilltop represent

02:26:51.399 --> 02:26:52.760
it's it's kind of

02:26:52.760 --> 02:26:55.049
remarkable when you're out there looking at the views off

02:26:55.049 --> 02:26:56.040
in the distance to the

02:26:56.040 --> 02:26:58.979
south and there's oh there's about 40 feet of fall from the

02:26:58.979 --> 02:26:59.799
top of this hill

02:26:59.799 --> 02:27:03.940
to the to that pond so that's just a great attribute you

02:27:03.940 --> 02:27:05.120
know when we are

02:27:05.120 --> 02:27:07.459
going to start working on a design for this it's something

02:27:07.459 --> 02:27:08.319
that we're excited

02:27:08.319 --> 02:27:12.159
to work around and to be able to incorporate in the layout

02:27:12.159 --> 02:27:13.159
and of course

02:27:13.159 --> 02:27:15.520
the airport and the industrial uses are off to the

02:27:15.520 --> 02:27:17.079
southwest and then another

02:27:17.079 --> 02:27:22.149
view looking east as a sunrise TWU 380 going under 35 just

02:27:22.149 --> 02:27:23.040
kind of what it

02:27:23.040 --> 02:27:25.569
entails the trees around the campus and the rest of its

02:27:25.569 --> 02:27:26.680
virtually treeless in

02:27:26.680 --> 02:27:29.930
the area that we're proposing to develop Ron did great job

02:27:29.930 --> 02:27:31.239
talking about the

02:27:31.239 --> 02:27:34.969
split land use designations on the property and again as we

02:27:34.969 --> 02:27:35.799
're tying in

02:27:35.799 --> 02:27:39.649
with the business innovation and industrial commerce our

02:27:39.649 --> 02:27:40.479
zoning change is

02:27:40.479 --> 02:27:43.690
compatible and compliant with the land use plan and as you

02:27:43.690 --> 02:27:44.920
can see this yellow

02:27:44.920 --> 02:27:48.329
was kind of isolated on the south side of 380 and buffered

02:27:48.329 --> 02:27:49.520
by these industrial

02:27:49.520 --> 02:27:55.100
uses and again that's for two acre I'm sorry for two lots

02:27:55.100 --> 02:27:57.000
per acre right now

02:27:57.000 --> 02:28:00.819
and again that's just not an appropriate use for for this

02:28:00.819 --> 02:28:02.520
property and that's why

02:28:02.520 --> 02:28:04.959
we're before you tonight also asking for that zoning change

02:28:04.959 --> 02:28:06.040
I think a question

02:28:06.040 --> 02:28:09.670
came up about this piece here during the work session if

02:28:09.670 --> 02:28:10.799
that could also be

02:28:10.799 --> 02:28:15.440
included and I'll touch on I'll touch on that in just a

02:28:15.440 --> 02:28:16.520
minute in just a second

02:28:16.520 --> 02:28:19.670
all right so an aerial just and I want to show you know

02:28:19.670 --> 02:28:21.399
when we anytime before

02:28:21.399 --> 02:28:24.079
we get started on design we go out there we look at the

02:28:24.079 --> 02:28:25.399
property we look at all

02:28:25.399 --> 02:28:28.350
the do all the research look at all the GIS data that's out

02:28:28.350 --> 02:28:29.260
there and all the

02:28:29.260 --> 02:28:32.149
maps and government requirements and things and this

02:28:32.149 --> 02:28:34.200
property does have a

02:28:34.200 --> 02:28:37.079
significant amount of floodplain that the lake itself is

02:28:37.079 --> 02:28:39.079
about 10 acres but

02:28:39.079 --> 02:28:42.170
when you look at just this area and the gas well site here

02:28:42.170 --> 02:28:43.280
that encompasses about

02:28:43.280 --> 02:28:46.879
35 acres of land that can't be developed and I think some

02:28:46.879 --> 02:28:48.079
of this does fall into

02:28:48.079 --> 02:28:51.879
the ESA maps that you'll have that need you know

02:28:51.879 --> 02:28:53.319
environmental protection needs

02:28:53.319 --> 02:28:55.739
to happen to preserve these habitats and that's it's

02:28:55.739 --> 02:28:57.280
critical and so that's

02:28:57.280 --> 02:29:02.280
something like you know yes it's it's almost like it's a

02:29:02.280 --> 02:29:03.620
constraint on the

02:29:03.620 --> 02:29:06.530
property but what we like to do is turn those constraints

02:29:06.530 --> 02:29:07.559
into amenities or

02:29:07.559 --> 02:29:10.690
opportunities to create something really cool and you know

02:29:10.690 --> 02:29:12.760
people enjoy walking

02:29:12.760 --> 02:29:14.989
and jogging around lakes and ponds and stuff like that so

02:29:14.989 --> 02:29:15.719
we want to turn it

02:29:15.719 --> 02:29:18.280
into an amenity and a very attractive feature for the

02:29:18.280 --> 02:29:20.520
development it is

02:29:20.520 --> 02:29:24.969
platted as lot one of the cell one school addition and so

02:29:24.969 --> 02:29:26.959
the area in red is

02:29:26.959 --> 02:29:30.899
all the encumbrances all the easements I did not include

02:29:30.899 --> 02:29:32.200
the sewer easement we

02:29:32.200 --> 02:29:35.709
talked about that in the work session because we're you

02:29:35.709 --> 02:29:37.180
know we would maybe be

02:29:37.180 --> 02:29:40.809
able to put parking over that but no no landscaping or no

02:29:40.809 --> 02:29:42.639
structures so I felt

02:29:42.639 --> 02:29:45.649
like that could still be considered developable but there's

02:29:45.649 --> 02:29:46.559
a pipeline

02:29:46.559 --> 02:29:50.170
easement along the west side and then this is a floodplain

02:29:50.170 --> 02:29:51.879
easement here that

02:29:51.879 --> 02:29:54.229
was established with this plat and then you have utility

02:29:54.229 --> 02:29:55.559
easements up along 380

02:29:55.559 --> 02:29:59.409
so there's some things that we need to work around okay so

02:29:59.409 --> 02:30:00.959
you know when we go

02:30:00.959 --> 02:30:03.059
out here and I talked about the hill being a great

02:30:03.059 --> 02:30:04.559
attribute there's a total

02:30:04.559 --> 02:30:08.190
of 54 feet a fall from this is the hill the top of the

02:30:08.190 --> 02:30:09.840
ridge the highest point

02:30:09.840 --> 02:30:12.409
of the ridge and the ridge extends down to here where the

02:30:12.409 --> 02:30:13.559
school the campus was

02:30:13.559 --> 02:30:17.659
but there's overall from this point down there's 54 feet I

02:30:17.659 --> 02:30:18.360
think it's actually

02:30:18.360 --> 02:30:23.799
down to this point and so you know when it's slated to be

02:30:23.799 --> 02:30:26.120
industrial commerce on

02:30:26.120 --> 02:30:29.930
the land use map we're looking at that and you know I know

02:30:29.930 --> 02:30:31.200
it's zoned art in

02:30:31.200 --> 02:30:34.040
our two and we're next to industrial uses and then the

02:30:34.040 --> 02:30:35.200
municipal airports

02:30:35.200 --> 02:30:38.719
just to our south and but but really when you're dealing

02:30:38.719 --> 02:30:39.520
with a large

02:30:39.520 --> 02:30:42.120
industrial distribution centers warehouses and things like

02:30:42.120 --> 02:30:42.559
that they

02:30:42.559 --> 02:30:45.909
need land that's that doesn't have this much terrain relief

02:30:45.909 --> 02:30:47.000
on it so the sites

02:30:47.000 --> 02:30:50.629
not very conducive for those type of big large box

02:30:50.629 --> 02:30:52.360
warehouse developments

02:30:52.360 --> 02:30:54.590
because of the terrain and we don't want to scrape the

02:30:54.590 --> 02:30:55.600
whole hill and cut it all

02:30:55.600 --> 02:30:59.059
down we want to be able to work with it and so we felt like

02:30:59.059 --> 02:31:00.079
the site isn't

02:31:00.079 --> 02:31:03.229
conducive for that but it would be it's a very attractive

02:31:03.229 --> 02:31:04.360
site for an office

02:31:04.360 --> 02:31:07.479
campus setting for retail restaurant opportunities and even

02:31:07.479 --> 02:31:08.059
some urban

02:31:08.059 --> 02:31:14.549
residential and so we've had some visionary processes with

02:31:14.549 --> 02:31:16.600
our team and

02:31:16.600 --> 02:31:21.040
volunteer hills you know we're going to try to capitalize

02:31:21.040 --> 02:31:22.879
on corporate campuses

02:31:22.879 --> 02:31:26.170
and I'll show you in a bubble plan kind of where we want to

02:31:26.170 --> 02:31:27.280
locate those but a

02:31:27.280 --> 02:31:30.290
live-work-play environment and these corporations that are

02:31:30.290 --> 02:31:31.200
moving they want

02:31:31.200 --> 02:31:35.760
to provide they want to be in cool places that their that

02:31:35.760 --> 02:31:35.760
can that their

02:31:35.760 --> 02:31:40.200
employees can also work in close proximity to where to

02:31:40.200 --> 02:31:41.799
where to start to

02:31:41.799 --> 02:31:45.409
live in close proximity to where they work and we've seen

02:31:45.409 --> 02:31:46.639
that we're working on

02:31:46.639 --> 02:31:49.190
some over in Flower Mound and we see that all across the

02:31:49.190 --> 02:31:50.680
metroplex definitely

02:31:50.680 --> 02:31:54.620
in Frisco and Irving and places like that grapevine you

02:31:54.620 --> 02:31:55.879
know there are urban

02:31:55.879 --> 02:32:00.319
residential developments going in next to campus style

02:32:00.319 --> 02:32:01.879
corporate headquarters

02:32:01.879 --> 02:32:04.629
and things like that because people want to they do want to

02:32:04.629 --> 02:32:05.559
be able to live and

02:32:05.559 --> 02:32:08.309
work in close proximity and then on their breaks go out and

02:32:08.309 --> 02:32:08.840
enjoy the

02:32:08.840 --> 02:32:12.930
amenities and maybe picnic down by the pond and you know I

02:32:12.930 --> 02:32:14.200
know that a lot of

02:32:14.200 --> 02:32:16.969
our workers today they're getting out of college and they

02:32:16.969 --> 02:32:18.120
still want it they want

02:32:18.120 --> 02:32:20.840
to be connected they want Wi-Fi everywhere they go and you

02:32:20.840 --> 02:32:21.920
know and so

02:32:21.920 --> 02:32:24.149
they but they want to be in nature they want to be outside

02:32:24.149 --> 02:32:24.840
but they want to be

02:32:24.840 --> 02:32:27.680
close to inside and in the air conditioning and still

02:32:27.680 --> 02:32:28.920
connected on Wi-Fi

02:32:28.920 --> 02:32:31.829
and so that's an important feature that we would

02:32:31.829 --> 02:32:34.040
incorporate into the design is

02:32:34.040 --> 02:32:37.500
establishing these corporate campuses around the pond area

02:32:37.500 --> 02:32:38.600
with amenities and

02:32:38.600 --> 02:32:43.030
pockets of gathering spaces for employees to go to for

02:32:43.030 --> 02:32:44.120
breaks and things

02:32:44.120 --> 02:32:46.739
like that quality of life elements are essential in the

02:32:46.739 --> 02:32:48.159
success of mixed-use

02:32:48.159 --> 02:32:52.989
developments and it's exactly what employers are looking

02:32:52.989 --> 02:32:54.319
for to bring their

02:32:54.319 --> 02:32:57.840
businesses to a certain location and the site and its

02:32:57.840 --> 02:32:59.799
location is also it's it's

02:32:59.799 --> 02:33:03.510
the Western gateway into the city and it's a critical piece

02:33:03.510 --> 02:33:04.559
as we're coming

02:33:04.559 --> 02:33:07.200
into from a rural developed from a rural area into the

02:33:07.200 --> 02:33:08.319
developed area of the city

02:33:08.319 --> 02:33:10.719
you know what is this gateway what is it gonna look like

02:33:10.719 --> 02:33:11.280
how do we gonna

02:33:11.280 --> 02:33:14.200
establish this to show that you know didn't it's not it's

02:33:14.200 --> 02:33:15.040
not just big box

02:33:15.040 --> 02:33:17.440
warehouse but hey there's you go in there and there's some

02:33:17.440 --> 02:33:18.200
pretty cool things

02:33:18.200 --> 02:33:22.520
to do and it's not just your typical run-of-the-mill

02:33:22.520 --> 02:33:24.399
industrial and urban

02:33:24.399 --> 02:33:27.319
residential is a key component I talked about that and

02:33:27.319 --> 02:33:30.200
again it would be we'd

02:33:30.200 --> 02:33:32.450
want to be sensitive let me go ahead and go to the bubble

02:33:32.450 --> 02:33:34.079
plan too so here's our

02:33:34.079 --> 02:33:37.709
early our earliest kind of design and kind of spatial

02:33:37.709 --> 02:33:39.200
planning is what we were

02:33:39.200 --> 02:33:42.969
at what we have done up to this point you know working with

02:33:42.969 --> 02:33:43.840
our features on

02:33:43.840 --> 02:33:47.860
the property the floodplain the pond and the gas pad and

02:33:47.860 --> 02:33:49.479
then how you know how

02:33:49.479 --> 02:33:54.090
can we save the hill and then we have this 1500 feet of

02:33:54.090 --> 02:33:55.360
frontage along you

02:33:55.360 --> 02:33:59.510
know a regional arterial that brings in you know regional

02:33:59.510 --> 02:34:01.120
traffic into the city

02:34:01.120 --> 02:34:04.469
of Denton from the West and so how you know where could

02:34:04.469 --> 02:34:05.319
should these uses be

02:34:05.319 --> 02:34:09.010
located and they all need to be integrated in a way that

02:34:09.010 --> 02:34:09.399
there's a

02:34:09.399 --> 02:34:12.420
connection and that's a the central spot the hills in the

02:34:12.420 --> 02:34:13.520
perfect spot you know

02:34:13.520 --> 02:34:15.920
as to be the central node where everything comes together

02:34:15.920 --> 02:34:16.239
all the

02:34:16.239 --> 02:34:19.930
different uses and so of course retail restaurant up along

02:34:19.930 --> 02:34:21.200
380 to get to

02:34:21.200 --> 02:34:25.340
capture visibility from the motorist and the patrons along

02:34:25.340 --> 02:34:26.559
that roadway and to

02:34:26.559 --> 02:34:29.530
draw them into the site and then of course the corporate

02:34:29.530 --> 02:34:30.399
campus I have it

02:34:30.399 --> 02:34:33.979
really either way urban residential corporate campus these

02:34:33.979 --> 02:34:35.079
two can switch we

02:34:35.079 --> 02:34:38.079
just this is just kind of our thought process at this time

02:34:38.079 --> 02:34:38.760
and I wanted to

02:34:38.760 --> 02:34:41.799
share that with you but what's important is to be sensitive

02:34:41.799 --> 02:34:42.799
to the neighboring

02:34:42.799 --> 02:34:46.719
uses and we know that this is land use for ICE or

02:34:46.719 --> 02:34:49.079
industrial and so we would

02:34:49.079 --> 02:34:52.069
propose a hundred foot setback if we if there are urban

02:34:52.069 --> 02:34:53.559
residential components

02:34:53.559 --> 02:34:57.290
along this western boundary and then there's a significant

02:34:57.290 --> 02:34:58.559
buffer you know on

02:34:58.559 --> 02:35:01.399
any of the industrial stuff to the south that's down here

02:35:01.399 --> 02:35:02.879
that the razor family

02:35:02.879 --> 02:35:07.370
has that owns the property and could potentially develop

02:35:07.370 --> 02:35:08.879
into an industrial

02:35:08.879 --> 02:35:14.020
project and so the gathering spot I you know that again

02:35:14.020 --> 02:35:15.079
that's that's that's

02:35:15.079 --> 02:35:18.760
critical to bring this together and integrate everything

02:35:18.760 --> 02:35:19.799
but the industrial

02:35:19.799 --> 02:35:22.590
would be I'm sorry the residential would be limited and we

02:35:22.590 --> 02:35:24.360
would come back with

02:35:24.360 --> 02:35:28.389
an SUP before you before anything moves forward on the

02:35:28.389 --> 02:35:30.000
residential piece and we

02:35:30.000 --> 02:35:32.760
would address the sensitivity the dense screening along the

02:35:32.760 --> 02:35:33.760
west and south line

02:35:33.760 --> 02:35:38.709
right here the setback and the black dotted line represents

02:35:38.709 --> 02:35:40.000
the trail and the

02:35:40.000 --> 02:35:42.950
connectivity you know in the amenity of that trail that

02:35:42.950 --> 02:35:44.000
could be used by

02:35:44.000 --> 02:35:49.229
employees and also residents and then even patrons from the

02:35:49.229 --> 02:35:50.040
restaurant retail

02:35:50.040 --> 02:35:53.670
area and so this is where we are right now it's a very

02:35:53.670 --> 02:35:55.639
early stages of design I

02:35:55.639 --> 02:35:58.040
know that we have a long way to go with all the city

02:35:58.040 --> 02:35:59.559
processes as end users come

02:35:59.559 --> 02:36:02.989
online and SUP for residential we'd have to do preliminary

02:36:02.989 --> 02:36:04.360
platting site planning

02:36:04.360 --> 02:36:07.239
final platting and all that and so I know there's a lot of

02:36:07.239 --> 02:36:08.159
things to do and

02:36:08.159 --> 02:36:12.770
so this morning to address the opposition that was

02:36:12.770 --> 02:36:14.600
submitted from our

02:36:14.600 --> 02:36:17.770
neighbor we did need a little bit more time to reach out to

02:36:17.770 --> 02:36:18.879
him I know that

02:36:18.879 --> 02:36:21.110
everybody's just kind of busy and there was some phone tag

02:36:21.110 --> 02:36:22.360
ging going on but we

02:36:22.360 --> 02:36:24.319
were finally able to get in contact with him my engineer

02:36:24.319 --> 02:36:25.040
talked to him this

02:36:25.040 --> 02:36:29.579
morning and he did express that his concern there was there

02:36:29.579 --> 02:36:30.680
's really two

02:36:30.680 --> 02:36:34.770
pieces to it and it's to protect his the land that he's

02:36:34.770 --> 02:36:36.319
responsible for you know

02:36:36.319 --> 02:36:40.399
along the the east the south and the west since it is zoned

02:36:40.399 --> 02:36:41.600
for industrial

02:36:41.600 --> 02:36:49.809
you know anytime okay I'll wrap up okay and so in order to

02:36:49.809 --> 02:36:50.680
address that we do

02:36:50.680 --> 02:36:53.680
want to be highly sensitive to if this was to develop as

02:36:53.680 --> 02:36:55.000
industrial the burden

02:36:55.000 --> 02:36:57.049
of the buffering and the screening would be on the

02:36:57.049 --> 02:36:58.120
residential and we could

02:36:58.120 --> 02:37:04.489
incorporate that into the SUP the second issue was the pond

02:37:04.489 --> 02:37:06.440
itself the you know I

02:37:06.440 --> 02:37:09.420
think the best word I guess I could say is making sure the

02:37:09.420 --> 02:37:10.360
pond is working

02:37:10.360 --> 02:37:12.399
correctly because I think it's causing some erosion

02:37:12.399 --> 02:37:13.200
downstream onto his

02:37:13.200 --> 02:37:16.829
property and so we'd have to do a full-blown drainage

02:37:16.829 --> 02:37:17.959
analysis to establish

02:37:17.959 --> 02:37:20.190
the 100-year floodplain I don't think this is a studied

02:37:20.190 --> 02:37:20.920
floodplain so we'd

02:37:20.920 --> 02:37:24.209
have to go through that with our hydrologist to make sure

02:37:24.209 --> 02:37:25.159
that the pond is

02:37:25.159 --> 02:37:28.149
we would want to use it as a detention facility as well so

02:37:28.149 --> 02:37:29.200
we have to make sure

02:37:29.200 --> 02:37:32.250
that that pond is working correctly and not creating any

02:37:32.250 --> 02:37:33.760
anything downstream that

02:37:33.760 --> 02:37:37.959
could damage the the properties to the south of us and so

02:37:37.959 --> 02:37:39.079
we would go through

02:37:39.079 --> 02:37:42.709
that that process to make sure that the pond is is working

02:37:42.709 --> 02:37:43.680
like the way it's

02:37:43.680 --> 02:37:47.360
supposed to so he doesn't incur any damage but that's I

02:37:47.360 --> 02:37:48.719
believe that is the

02:37:48.719 --> 02:37:51.540
conclusion so I'm here for any questions if you have a

02:37:51.540 --> 02:37:52.399
couple questions for you

02:37:52.399 --> 02:37:56.920
sir Commissioner Smith thank you sure Rami your last name

02:37:56.920 --> 02:37:58.200
again Rivera Rivera

02:37:58.200 --> 02:38:03.559
it's rare the corporate campus and residential split what

02:38:03.559 --> 02:38:04.639
size of acreages

02:38:04.639 --> 02:38:06.610
were those I know that's all conceptual and hypothetical

02:38:06.610 --> 02:38:07.440
and nothing solid but

02:38:07.440 --> 02:38:10.489
could you get estimate for me yes I can I mean if this

02:38:10.489 --> 02:38:12.239
green area is about 35

02:38:12.239 --> 02:38:16.670
acres I think I could say that again these could be swapped

02:38:16.670 --> 02:38:17.479
right so we're not

02:38:17.479 --> 02:38:20.000
getting the next question I was gonna ask because that was

02:38:20.000 --> 02:38:20.959
a possibility to be

02:38:20.959 --> 02:38:24.719
swiped yes it is yes but this area I believe this would

02:38:24.719 --> 02:38:25.840
probably about 25

02:38:25.840 --> 02:38:31.280
acres or 20 to 25 and this would be you know maybe 18 or so

02:38:31.280 --> 02:38:32.239
so you feel like in

02:38:32.239 --> 02:38:34.629
your professional recommendation that's enough room to do

02:38:34.629 --> 02:38:35.559
both of those types of

02:38:35.559 --> 02:38:38.379
developments oh yes it's really impactful and make it make

02:38:38.379 --> 02:38:39.079
it worth yes

02:38:39.079 --> 02:38:42.959
your your time financially is as well as a increase in

02:38:42.959 --> 02:38:44.600
taxes for the city oh yes

02:38:44.600 --> 02:38:48.579
sir I do and a good example of this is Cyrus waters in Ir

02:38:48.579 --> 02:38:50.239
ving it's kind of

02:38:50.239 --> 02:38:52.870
South Coppell but it's actually in the city limits of Ir

02:38:52.870 --> 02:38:54.000
ving and it is a brand

02:38:54.000 --> 02:38:56.670
new mixed-use development by Billingsley and it's up next

02:38:56.670 --> 02:38:57.559
there's you know around

02:38:57.559 --> 02:39:00.930
the airport DFW there's so many industrial boxes down there

02:39:00.930 --> 02:39:01.399
and they've

02:39:01.399 --> 02:39:05.280
done a really good job of making it complementary to having

02:39:05.280 --> 02:39:05.959
the urban

02:39:05.959 --> 02:39:08.190
residential next to the industrial it looks really good but

02:39:08.190 --> 02:39:08.719
they've got a lot

02:39:08.719 --> 02:39:12.489
of corporate office that's corporate campus yes it makes

02:39:12.489 --> 02:39:12.879
you corporate campus

02:39:12.879 --> 02:39:17.319
gotcha yes sir awesome what what type of what type of

02:39:17.319 --> 02:39:17.680
corporate

02:39:17.680 --> 02:39:20.079
campuses do you think we would be attracted to that this

02:39:20.079 --> 02:39:20.920
area specifically

02:39:20.920 --> 02:39:24.799
I know that when we talked to the ED department they there

02:39:24.799 --> 02:39:25.959
's a shortage of

02:39:25.959 --> 02:39:30.389
you know campus you know kind of class a campus type of

02:39:30.389 --> 02:39:32.760
settings okay and so not

02:39:32.760 --> 02:39:35.909
a specific corporation but not a specific corporation but

02:39:35.909 --> 02:39:36.360
we want

02:39:36.360 --> 02:39:41.639
corporates headquarters to be relocated more of a more less

02:39:41.639 --> 02:39:43.440
I guess industrial

02:39:43.440 --> 02:39:45.579
type corporations but more office type professional

02:39:45.579 --> 02:39:46.680
corporations you know I'm

02:39:46.680 --> 02:39:51.850
trying to I have a picture I thought I had a picture so

02:39:51.850 --> 02:39:52.920
what I do back up in

02:39:52.920 --> 02:39:56.440
here okay yes these kind of campuses right here I think

02:39:56.440 --> 02:39:57.000
some of these are in

02:39:57.000 --> 02:40:00.889
Westlake great vine has some really good corporate campuses

02:40:00.889 --> 02:40:01.879
but things along those

02:40:01.879 --> 02:40:05.709
lines great thank you Commissioner Beck thank you chair

02:40:05.709 --> 02:40:06.879
thank you mr. Vera for

02:40:06.879 --> 02:40:09.489
your presentation and you kind of clarified something up

02:40:09.489 --> 02:40:10.520
for me that was

02:40:10.520 --> 02:40:13.440
aware of coming into it obviously there's not a specific

02:40:13.440 --> 02:40:14.520
corporate entity

02:40:14.520 --> 02:40:19.299
that's coming in here building this is strictly room place

02:40:19.299 --> 02:40:20.600
for corporate

02:40:20.600 --> 02:40:24.629
employees to live that's right this is once we are as able

02:40:24.629 --> 02:40:25.479
to get the zoning we

02:40:25.479 --> 02:40:27.889
can go out and target those and show them that look there's

02:40:27.889 --> 02:40:28.639
an opportunity

02:40:28.639 --> 02:40:33.079
here to have this environment to be to attract them and it

02:40:33.079 --> 02:40:34.040
's my understanding

02:40:34.040 --> 02:40:40.409
that you're gonna keep that pond and not invade that repair

02:40:40.409 --> 02:40:42.200
that ESA there that

02:40:42.200 --> 02:40:46.120
is actually gonna enhance it to serve your purposes okay

02:40:46.120 --> 02:40:46.479
very good I like to

02:40:46.479 --> 02:40:52.149
hear that what would your response be to the one complain

02:40:52.149 --> 02:40:52.920
ant and I don't know if

02:40:52.920 --> 02:40:55.799
he's here and I hope he is and hope steps up and talks to

02:40:55.799 --> 02:40:56.840
it but his concern

02:40:56.840 --> 02:41:02.370
that this type of project this time of development would

02:41:02.370 --> 02:41:03.959
hurt potential

02:41:03.959 --> 02:41:11.260
customers from utilizing the area he owns the ICE how would

02:41:11.260 --> 02:41:12.600
you argue that

02:41:12.600 --> 02:41:18.879
well I do I do understand that that's a concern of his and

02:41:18.879 --> 02:41:21.200
I would tell him and

02:41:21.200 --> 02:41:23.909
I believe my engineer told him that this morning that the

02:41:23.909 --> 02:41:25.120
burden of the buffering

02:41:25.120 --> 02:41:29.079
we can put on to the residential through the SCP process

02:41:29.079 --> 02:41:31.360
and so that way you know

02:41:31.360 --> 02:41:33.190
because I know he he'll go out there and try to target

02:41:33.190 --> 02:41:34.079
industrial users and

02:41:34.079 --> 02:41:36.600
they'll say oh my goodness the city's require me to do all

02:41:36.600 --> 02:41:36.719
this

02:41:36.719 --> 02:41:40.280
buffering because I'm next to apartments or whatever it is

02:41:40.280 --> 02:41:41.319
you know and then he

02:41:41.319 --> 02:41:44.459
we if we are able to say no this SCP was approved they

02:41:44.459 --> 02:41:46.680
address the buffer and the

02:41:46.680 --> 02:41:49.969
masonry walls there the live screens there since they've

02:41:49.969 --> 02:41:50.680
got it on their

02:41:50.680 --> 02:41:52.610
property you won't have to put it on theirs on the

02:41:52.610 --> 02:41:54.479
industrial property and I

02:41:54.479 --> 02:41:58.500
know this exists throughout the town or throughout the city

02:41:58.500 --> 02:41:59.200
on the the

02:41:59.200 --> 02:42:02.079
apartments that just got approved even south of here next

02:42:02.079 --> 02:42:03.440
to Peterbilt you know

02:42:03.440 --> 02:42:05.680
I think that there's some residential adjacency next to

02:42:05.680 --> 02:42:06.399
industrial on a

02:42:06.399 --> 02:42:11.040
project that he I think that he worked on but I understand

02:42:11.040 --> 02:42:12.040
it and if I was in

02:42:12.040 --> 02:42:14.340
his shoes I'd be saying the same thing you know that he is

02:42:14.340 --> 02:42:15.200
saying just to make

02:42:15.200 --> 02:42:18.829
sure that that the viability of him being able to target

02:42:18.829 --> 02:42:20.319
industrial users is

02:42:20.319 --> 02:42:23.319
still there and that it's not diminishing any value and I

02:42:23.319 --> 02:42:24.079
think the

02:42:24.079 --> 02:42:27.780
best way to do that is to put the screening requirements on

02:42:27.780 --> 02:42:28.239
to the

02:42:28.239 --> 02:42:30.729
residential user so it's your understanding his focus is

02:42:30.729 --> 02:42:31.360
mainly on that

02:42:31.360 --> 02:42:36.610
little southwest quadrant in there that's I'm still in like

02:42:36.610 --> 02:42:38.040
the eastern yes

02:42:38.040 --> 02:42:40.079
sir that that's my understanding because this is a

02:42:40.079 --> 02:42:41.680
significant buffer and even

02:42:41.680 --> 02:42:44.850
this is floodplain too so he's got adequate separation so

02:42:44.850 --> 02:42:46.200
if this were to

02:42:46.200 --> 02:42:48.739
right now it's in our - but if right if it was to be rez

02:42:48.739 --> 02:42:49.959
oned to an industrial

02:42:49.959 --> 02:42:52.520
then this buffer would already be in place for the

02:42:52.520 --> 02:42:54.079
residential very good thank

02:42:54.079 --> 02:43:02.239
you commissioner Sanchez excuse me you mentioned that his

02:43:02.239 --> 02:43:03.120
second concern was

02:43:03.120 --> 02:43:06.200
that there was some erosion contributes erosion problems

02:43:06.200 --> 02:43:07.959
there it doesn't matter

02:43:07.959 --> 02:43:11.379
who would own the property they'd have to fix it right I

02:43:11.379 --> 02:43:13.959
mean if it's what if

02:43:13.959 --> 02:43:17.899
the zoning didn't change and whatever was put in there the

02:43:17.899 --> 02:43:19.559
erosion issue would

02:43:19.559 --> 02:43:22.360
still be a concern for them well so it doesn't really

02:43:22.360 --> 02:43:25.520
affect the zoning or what

02:43:25.520 --> 02:43:29.149
changing the zoning because it that has to be addressed

02:43:29.149 --> 02:43:30.479
either way owns a

02:43:30.479 --> 02:43:32.899
property so going through the development process and all

02:43:32.899 --> 02:43:33.520
the permitting

02:43:33.520 --> 02:43:36.690
and designing we would be able to evaluate the pond and

02:43:36.690 --> 02:43:38.639
figure out why you

02:43:38.639 --> 02:43:41.950
know if the release of that pond is causing that erosion we

02:43:41.950 --> 02:43:43.280
can fix that you

02:43:43.280 --> 02:43:46.020
know if when we do develop it and we do this study with a

02:43:46.020 --> 02:43:47.239
hydrologist and I

02:43:47.239 --> 02:43:50.000
think maybe the point source is to define so it's creating

02:43:50.000 --> 02:43:50.959
that erosion you

02:43:50.959 --> 02:43:54.799
know as it goes down there and if we create that discharge

02:43:54.799 --> 02:43:55.920
to be done in the

02:43:55.920 --> 02:43:59.129
right way we can minimize it and and and fix it I mean that

02:43:59.129 --> 02:44:00.559
that's it would take

02:44:00.559 --> 02:44:03.549
a study by hard our hydrologist to determine what's really

02:44:03.549 --> 02:44:04.360
going on there

02:44:04.360 --> 02:44:07.889
yeah I guess my point was it doesn't make a difference who

02:44:07.889 --> 02:44:08.719
owns a property

02:44:08.719 --> 02:44:11.159
what how they develop it it's gonna have to be addressed

02:44:11.159 --> 02:44:12.399
and you guys are

02:44:12.399 --> 02:44:15.819
addressing it yes so so that's that's what I was getting

02:44:15.819 --> 02:44:17.200
that so that's that's

02:44:17.200 --> 02:44:25.239
not a point of commission Roselle next year mr. if you

02:44:25.239 --> 02:44:26.200
switch the corporate

02:44:26.200 --> 02:44:29.209
campus in the urban residential with that that would play

02:44:29.209 --> 02:44:30.280
into the ability to

02:44:30.280 --> 02:44:34.709
provide the buffer through the SUP process correct well

02:44:34.709 --> 02:44:38.600
well if we put the

02:44:38.600 --> 02:44:42.340
urban residential on this side if there's already adequate

02:44:42.340 --> 02:44:43.520
buffer naturally

02:44:43.520 --> 02:44:47.149
okay what I would have more and getting at is is the

02:44:47.149 --> 02:44:48.399
opposition concerned if the

02:44:48.399 --> 02:44:51.239
corporate campus was on the western side of the property

02:44:51.239 --> 02:44:52.479
about the buffering

02:44:52.479 --> 02:44:56.569
between those type of uses was that talked about at all can

02:44:56.569 --> 02:44:57.639
you clarify your

02:44:57.639 --> 02:45:00.610
question so I understand that if the urban residential is

02:45:00.610 --> 02:45:01.079
on the west side

02:45:01.079 --> 02:45:03.840
of property you can go through the SUP process to establish

02:45:03.840 --> 02:45:05.360
barriers I'm

02:45:05.360 --> 02:45:08.479
curious is if there's a response to the opposition if the

02:45:08.479 --> 02:45:09.760
corporate campus and

02:45:09.760 --> 02:45:14.049
the residential was switched there would not be a buffer in

02:45:14.049 --> 02:45:15.239
place between the two

02:45:15.239 --> 02:45:18.159
uses of ICE and the corporate campus yeah it wouldn't

02:45:18.159 --> 02:45:20.120
really be necessary if

02:45:20.120 --> 02:45:26.430
they're they're more compatible okay yes thanks any other

02:45:26.430 --> 02:45:27.040
questions for the

02:45:27.040 --> 02:45:33.239
applicant thank you for your comments I have one other card

02:45:33.239 --> 02:45:34.280
wishing to speak on

02:45:34.280 --> 02:45:41.760
this item Philip a Baker PO box 2424 in opposition

02:45:41.840 --> 02:45:49.959
Baker excuse me Philip Baker PO box 2424 dead in Texas

02:45:49.959 --> 02:45:55.360
I'm supposed to say you're good okay I'm vice president of

02:45:55.360 --> 02:45:56.120
the razor company I

02:45:56.120 --> 02:45:59.750
represent razor investments and we own 130 acres around

02:45:59.750 --> 02:46:01.280
selling school selling

02:46:01.280 --> 02:46:04.489
schools originally part of all the land we own we gave that

02:46:04.489 --> 02:46:06.440
land to them 40 years

02:46:06.440 --> 02:46:10.670
ago so we're well familiar with that all that land and I'm

02:46:10.670 --> 02:46:11.959
not just concerned

02:46:11.959 --> 02:46:15.840
about the 10 acres on the southwest corner of that property

02:46:15.840 --> 02:46:16.760
I'm concerned

02:46:16.760 --> 02:46:20.010
about the 130 acres that surrounded its own industrial or

02:46:20.010 --> 02:46:21.159
industrial employment

02:46:21.159 --> 02:46:24.250
center it's not identified on there but the employment

02:46:24.250 --> 02:46:25.280
centers on the right side

02:46:25.280 --> 02:46:28.399
it wasn't highlighted there is floodplain there but it's

02:46:28.399 --> 02:46:28.760
not been

02:46:28.760 --> 02:46:32.579
studied so it's an it's unknown exactly how much would have

02:46:32.579 --> 02:46:33.000
to be in that

02:46:33.000 --> 02:46:37.659
stream as far as the pond goes it's an unengineered unstud

02:46:37.659 --> 02:46:39.239
ied and I can tell

02:46:39.239 --> 02:46:42.250
you why it's doesn't work right because they didn't build a

02:46:42.250 --> 02:46:43.040
dam on it there's no

02:46:43.040 --> 02:46:45.879
spillway the water goes in and it comes out in the same

02:46:45.879 --> 02:46:47.479
place and it spills down

02:46:47.479 --> 02:46:52.079
to the south it's it's just a some mess we've done some

02:46:52.079 --> 02:46:53.020
preliminary work the

02:46:53.020 --> 02:46:55.510
Army Corps of Engineers has told us they would just as soon

02:46:55.510 --> 02:46:56.440
see it go away and

02:46:56.440 --> 02:46:59.469
the stream put back in place like it was before I got dam

02:46:59.469 --> 02:47:00.879
med up by selling school

02:47:00.879 --> 02:47:04.600
with that pond so it's hardly an amenity to us or probably

02:47:04.600 --> 02:47:05.799
to anybody else and if

02:47:05.799 --> 02:47:09.559
it breaks it's going to be a big mess that's not why I'm

02:47:09.559 --> 02:47:11.120
here though my

02:47:11.120 --> 02:47:14.739
understanding is that the applicant or the zoning

02:47:14.739 --> 02:47:16.319
application would allow for

02:47:16.319 --> 02:47:22.770
retail restaurants and multifamily and I think the big

02:47:22.770 --> 02:47:24.239
issue is the

02:47:24.239 --> 02:47:28.360
multifamily and I'll explain that now I don't inherently

02:47:28.360 --> 02:47:29.680
oppose the restaurant

02:47:29.680 --> 02:47:33.840
or retail along the strip along University it's it would

02:47:33.840 --> 02:47:35.000
probably work

02:47:35.000 --> 02:47:38.510
there if you if you go down and look south and quick trip

02:47:38.510 --> 02:47:39.879
you'll see Northern

02:47:39.879 --> 02:47:43.180
Tool going in you'll see a couple other businesses that's

02:47:43.180 --> 02:47:44.319
that could easily

02:47:44.319 --> 02:47:48.329
happen there and would be an addition a positive thing I

02:47:48.329 --> 02:47:49.879
think the restaurants

02:47:49.879 --> 02:47:53.909
be okay I doubt that they would be successful because there

02:47:53.909 --> 02:47:54.799
's so much of

02:47:54.799 --> 02:47:57.290
that kind of activity over on raise a ranch in the town

02:47:57.290 --> 02:47:59.120
center it's it's

02:47:59.120 --> 02:48:02.219
probably unlikely there but it's it's something somebody

02:48:02.219 --> 02:48:03.319
could take a risk for

02:48:03.319 --> 02:48:06.530
if they wanted to and I wouldn't object I think the pattern

02:48:06.530 --> 02:48:07.520
for that is already

02:48:07.520 --> 02:48:11.290
established there because of the church to the West and

02:48:11.290 --> 02:48:13.879
what was their old that

02:48:13.879 --> 02:48:16.979
the building that's now a building an office building it

02:48:16.979 --> 02:48:18.479
was there the home

02:48:18.479 --> 02:48:21.360
for the pastor that was built that was why it's originally

02:48:21.360 --> 02:48:22.479
there but that strip

02:48:22.479 --> 02:48:25.840
was sort of established there and so it's it's logical and

02:48:25.840 --> 02:48:26.719
fair that that

02:48:26.719 --> 02:48:30.399
would continue maybe all the way to the railroad the multif

02:48:30.399 --> 02:48:31.879
amily is the problem

02:48:31.879 --> 02:48:36.309
we just closed on 45 acres to United States cold storage

02:48:36.309 --> 02:48:36.920
they're building a

02:48:36.920 --> 02:48:40.799
major facility just off Jim Crystal those kinds of

02:48:40.799 --> 02:48:41.840
businesses don't want to

02:48:41.840 --> 02:48:46.790
be around residential of any kind and to give you an

02:48:46.790 --> 02:48:49.360
example when we before we

02:48:49.360 --> 02:48:52.239
closed on that deal they wanted assurances that we would

02:48:52.239 --> 02:48:53.159
not allow that

02:48:53.159 --> 02:48:57.420
on the 50 acres adjacent and we deed restricted it so it

02:48:57.420 --> 02:48:58.840
can't target when

02:48:58.840 --> 02:49:02.489
they came in we deed restricted 80 acres they don't want to

02:49:02.489 --> 02:49:03.120
be around

02:49:03.120 --> 02:49:08.110
residential now that zoning change I brought up was brought

02:49:08.110 --> 02:49:08.799
up the south of

02:49:08.799 --> 02:49:14.870
here if there was a separation like precision Boulevard

02:49:14.870 --> 02:49:16.360
some kind of land

02:49:16.360 --> 02:49:19.530
feature that separated that land from the industrial then I

02:49:19.530 --> 02:49:20.239
probably be

02:49:20.239 --> 02:49:24.739
wouldn't object to it because a roadway that goes somewhere

02:49:24.739 --> 02:49:26.879
a river whatever but

02:49:26.879 --> 02:49:30.299
that buffer proposed up there is not a buffer at all it's

02:49:30.299 --> 02:49:31.360
not it's nonsense

02:49:31.360 --> 02:49:35.500
that it's going to do anything to discourage to allow an

02:49:35.500 --> 02:49:37.079
industrial user to

02:49:37.079 --> 02:49:42.879
come in there so I'm sort of stuck here you you cover the

02:49:42.879 --> 02:49:44.100
40 or 50 acres with

02:49:44.100 --> 02:49:47.610
high density residential then that's going to screw the

02:49:47.610 --> 02:49:48.959
rest of that 130

02:49:48.959 --> 02:49:52.840
acres there so what am I faced with coming and asking you

02:49:52.840 --> 02:49:53.319
to rezone

02:49:53.319 --> 02:49:57.479
industrial land I'm not going to do it that's industrial

02:49:57.479 --> 02:49:58.399
land the pattern has

02:49:58.399 --> 02:50:01.379
already been established the only reason that isn't

02:50:01.379 --> 02:50:02.920
industrials because of selling

02:50:02.920 --> 02:50:07.350
school the patterns already there it's industrial land or

02:50:07.350 --> 02:50:08.440
employment center land

02:50:08.440 --> 02:50:11.899
the corporate campus I'm not inherently opposed to but I

02:50:11.899 --> 02:50:12.600
don't think that's

02:50:12.600 --> 02:50:17.159
what's going on here I think that's just just there as an

02:50:17.159 --> 02:50:18.040
option but I don't

02:50:18.040 --> 02:50:20.319
think it's what we're talking about we're talking about

02:50:20.319 --> 02:50:21.760
residential high

02:50:21.760 --> 02:50:24.790
density and I think it's going to turn off industrial users

02:50:24.790 --> 02:50:25.680
so it's a choice

02:50:25.680 --> 02:50:28.989
if we want that to be industrial out there and that's what

02:50:28.989 --> 02:50:30.040
's been established

02:50:30.040 --> 02:50:34.059
by the city in their 2030 plan I don't think the fact

02:50:34.059 --> 02:50:35.639
pattern of the land that

02:50:35.639 --> 02:50:38.799
was south of there east of pack are and we also incident

02:50:38.799 --> 02:50:39.959
ally just for your

02:50:39.959 --> 02:50:43.590
information we heavily deed restricted that so that there

02:50:43.590 --> 02:50:44.520
would never be any

02:50:44.520 --> 02:50:46.879
conflict between the corporate and that use that was

02:50:46.879 --> 02:50:48.120
established there by this

02:50:48.120 --> 02:50:53.930
body are not by this book by the City Council so anyway

02:50:53.930 --> 02:50:55.680
that's if you have any

02:50:55.680 --> 02:50:58.639
questions all happy to answer I think I think that's a

02:50:58.639 --> 02:51:00.120
summary I'm not totally

02:51:00.120 --> 02:51:02.940
like the retail the restaurant I think I think that would

02:51:02.940 --> 02:51:04.000
be acceptable along

02:51:04.000 --> 02:51:07.159
that strip but not the residential the corporate and I

02:51:07.159 --> 02:51:08.200
think the lake is

02:51:08.200 --> 02:51:10.909
probably either gonna go away it's hardly an amenity it's

02:51:10.909 --> 02:51:11.760
gonna take a lot

02:51:11.760 --> 02:51:14.920
of study and it's it's it's a problem it was an engineer

02:51:14.920 --> 02:51:15.780
and that's some

02:51:15.780 --> 02:51:21.850
questions for you I had some questions in the bed you

02:51:21.850 --> 02:51:22.840
brought up the property

02:51:22.840 --> 02:51:24.909
down by Peterbilt because that's what I was gonna ask you

02:51:24.909 --> 02:51:25.719
about you were here

02:51:25.719 --> 02:51:29.639
before us a few months ago and I believe it was a it's not

02:51:29.639 --> 02:51:30.479
identical but it's a

02:51:30.479 --> 02:51:35.100
similar project where you've got a lot of topography you

02:51:35.100 --> 02:51:37.280
got a big lake and the

02:51:37.280 --> 02:51:40.030
point you made before us was because of those natural

02:51:40.030 --> 02:51:41.840
features that property

02:51:41.840 --> 02:51:44.969
really won't be able to be developed into industrial then

02:51:44.969 --> 02:51:46.360
you ask us to make

02:51:46.360 --> 02:51:49.879
that apartments essentially so can you explain the

02:51:49.879 --> 02:51:51.200
differences to why it's okay

02:51:51.200 --> 02:51:54.620
there but it's not okay here with some of the very same

02:51:54.620 --> 02:51:56.040
types of features and

02:51:56.040 --> 02:51:59.469
zoning there is the there is the lake we think the lake

02:51:59.469 --> 02:52:00.840
needs to go away and will

02:52:00.840 --> 02:52:04.469
eventually go away it wasn't engineered it wasn't designed

02:52:04.469 --> 02:52:06.440
as a lake it basically

02:52:06.440 --> 02:52:10.069
some amateurs dug a hole in the ground and filled it with

02:52:10.069 --> 02:52:11.719
water there is a

02:52:11.719 --> 02:52:14.930
topography issue but there's no natural land features like

02:52:14.930 --> 02:52:16.000
we're bringing in

02:52:16.000 --> 02:52:19.040
we're building a 1.5 million dollar roadway that's going to

02:52:19.040 --> 02:52:19.760
separate that

02:52:19.760 --> 02:52:25.829
land over there it's not it's not as integral it's not as

02:52:25.829 --> 02:52:26.479
integrated into

02:52:26.479 --> 02:52:29.840
this as this piece is this this is part of a whole piece of

02:52:29.840 --> 02:52:30.879
land over there

02:52:30.879 --> 02:52:33.989
there's no natural features now yes you say the lake but

02:52:33.989 --> 02:52:35.280
the stream has got to

02:52:35.280 --> 02:52:38.979
be dealt with but I think the lake is going to go away the

02:52:38.979 --> 02:52:40.600
topography is an

02:52:40.600 --> 02:52:43.809
issue I don't know that it's of the great magnitude that it

02:52:43.809 --> 02:52:44.639
can't be dealt

02:52:44.639 --> 02:52:48.520
with in land the cold storage had a topography issue too

02:52:48.520 --> 02:52:49.280
and they're dealing

02:52:49.280 --> 02:52:53.709
with it it's not as severe as that but but there's no

02:52:53.709 --> 02:52:55.079
separation there's no

02:52:55.079 --> 02:52:58.709
roadway and I think that's the big distinction is that this

02:52:58.709 --> 02:53:00.639
is this is this

02:53:00.639 --> 02:53:04.559
is this is our land this is theirs right in the middle of

02:53:04.559 --> 02:53:07.799
it we surround it so

02:53:07.799 --> 02:53:12.040
that's the difference you know if you want to rezone all

02:53:12.040 --> 02:53:13.239
that multifamily out

02:53:13.239 --> 02:53:16.479
there I guess we'll go for it and I don't think that's the

02:53:16.479 --> 02:53:17.399
right thing I

02:53:17.399 --> 02:53:20.500
don't think that's what this city wants it's established

02:53:20.500 --> 02:53:21.760
already as industrial

02:53:21.760 --> 02:53:26.040
land and I don't want to sound I don't think I'm being

02:53:26.040 --> 02:53:26.879
hypocritical here I

02:53:26.879 --> 02:53:29.989
think there is a distinction between that land and the land

02:53:29.989 --> 02:53:30.959
we're over there

02:53:30.959 --> 02:53:34.319
by Packard we're separating it all off by building a road

02:53:34.319 --> 02:53:36.559
way well I can't speak

02:53:36.559 --> 02:53:40.549
to any other person's point of view but mine at least in my

02:53:40.549 --> 02:53:41.959
opinion in looking

02:53:41.959 --> 02:53:44.739
at this and I hear what your concerns are what I see in

02:53:44.739 --> 02:53:45.760
this particular site

02:53:45.760 --> 02:53:49.600
is a large area to the south of it that's either floodplain

02:53:49.600 --> 02:53:50.399
or Lake and

02:53:50.399 --> 02:53:53.350
where the lake stays or not well they'll have to have some

02:53:53.350 --> 02:53:54.479
type of detention

02:53:54.479 --> 02:53:57.370
feature there so there'll be some buffer there on the far

02:53:57.370 --> 02:53:58.399
west side of it I don't

02:53:58.399 --> 02:54:02.209
know how wide that strip is it was in red that's in an eas

02:54:02.209 --> 02:54:03.879
ement there was a

02:54:03.879 --> 02:54:07.559
large strip there was a large strip and I don't know if we

02:54:07.559 --> 02:54:09.200
can pull that slide

02:54:09.200 --> 02:54:12.690
back up but there's a very large strip I would guess it's

02:54:12.690 --> 02:54:14.440
at least 50 feet if not

02:54:14.440 --> 02:54:16.680
more

02:54:20.280 --> 02:54:26.079
right there on the west side there's nothing there that's

02:54:26.079 --> 02:54:26.879
just land to you

02:54:26.879 --> 02:54:31.170
too there's an easement there and maybe the there is a

02:54:31.170 --> 02:54:32.799
there is a gas pipeline

02:54:32.799 --> 02:54:36.510
that goes to that well site in the southeast corner that's

02:54:36.510 --> 02:54:37.040
what you're

02:54:37.040 --> 02:54:40.840
talking about you don't see it on the ground surface wise

02:54:40.840 --> 02:54:41.479
well they can't

02:54:41.479 --> 02:54:48.000
build a so it's effectively a buffer it's 50 feet wide I'd

02:54:48.000 --> 02:54:49.440
ask the engineer

02:54:49.440 --> 02:54:53.549
to please approach and you can give it give that answer to

02:54:53.549 --> 02:54:54.799
us on the record

02:54:58.799 --> 02:55:00.840
yes there's there's a portion of the sanitary sewer eas

02:55:00.840 --> 02:55:03.040
ement that comes in

02:55:03.040 --> 02:55:06.120
you know the one that goes east to west here and it goes

02:55:06.120 --> 02:55:07.520
within this easement

02:55:07.520 --> 02:55:13.309
but I think this is actually 30 30 feet wide 33 I believe

02:55:13.309 --> 02:55:13.799
so yes sir

02:55:13.799 --> 02:55:16.040
continues on west

02:55:22.079 --> 02:55:27.329
there is a easement for that was that was put on this plot

02:55:27.329 --> 02:55:28.479
so I was assuming

02:55:28.479 --> 02:55:30.520
the sewer easement was their sewer line was in that eas

02:55:30.520 --> 02:55:31.399
ement they may go to the

02:55:31.399 --> 02:55:34.479
building to the north I don't know but my point to you sir

02:55:34.479 --> 02:55:35.360
is there is an

02:55:35.360 --> 02:55:38.180
easement there that although it may not be a 50-foot right

02:55:38.180 --> 02:55:39.319
away like a road it

02:55:39.319 --> 02:55:42.079
is somewhat already pre-established there so there is

02:55:42.079 --> 02:55:43.120
somewhat of a buffer

02:55:43.120 --> 02:55:46.409
and really the only piece that then is of question is the

02:55:46.409 --> 02:55:47.840
little bitty southern

02:55:47.840 --> 02:55:52.600
portion there so that was the reason for my question to you

02:55:52.600 --> 02:55:54.159
this seems very

02:55:54.159 --> 02:55:57.909
similar to some of the very same things that you brought

02:55:57.909 --> 02:55:59.440
before us a few months

02:55:59.440 --> 02:56:04.120
ago with buffers topography and and you know it was the

02:56:04.120 --> 02:56:05.840
best use of the property

02:56:05.840 --> 02:56:08.760
and I'm not trying to pin you down hypocritical but I was

02:56:08.760 --> 02:56:09.559
asking for an

02:56:09.559 --> 02:56:13.989
explanation as to why this piece is so inherently different

02:56:13.989 --> 02:56:15.520
in your view while

02:56:15.520 --> 02:56:18.420
the other one that has very similar things was okay it's

02:56:18.420 --> 02:56:19.120
configured

02:56:19.120 --> 02:56:22.870
differently and it's also separated by a roadway well and

02:56:22.870 --> 02:56:23.680
that's my that's not

02:56:23.680 --> 02:56:27.770
that isn't here done here there's not segregated I don't

02:56:27.770 --> 02:56:28.360
think the easement

02:56:28.360 --> 02:56:32.040
qualifies in that magnitude of separation okay that's my

02:56:32.040 --> 02:56:33.040
opinion okay a

02:56:33.040 --> 02:56:37.120
roadway separates you you've got on the other side of the

02:56:37.120 --> 02:56:37.719
street you have

02:56:37.719 --> 02:56:44.430
residential and well my point is if it stays multifamily

02:56:44.430 --> 02:56:46.079
more than likely it'll

02:56:46.079 --> 02:56:48.829
have the 30-foot easement and will probably some type of

02:56:48.829 --> 02:56:49.600
parking lot and

02:56:49.600 --> 02:56:52.799
fire ingress to address and there'll be a pretty

02:56:52.799 --> 02:56:55.200
substantial buffer between any

02:56:55.200 --> 02:56:59.479
multifamily to anything that's to the West is and if if

02:56:59.479 --> 02:57:01.079
they happen to flip

02:57:01.079 --> 02:57:03.969
the two and put the corporate campus on the West and the

02:57:03.969 --> 02:57:05.239
residential on the East

02:57:05.239 --> 02:57:10.239
then it's even a lesser issue so those were just two

02:57:10.239 --> 02:57:12.540
questions that I ask I

02:57:12.540 --> 02:57:15.069
appreciate your answer and I've got a number of people that

02:57:15.069 --> 02:57:15.840
have some other

02:57:15.840 --> 02:57:18.959
question to Commissioner back thank you chair mr. Baker

02:57:18.959 --> 02:57:19.559
thank you for coming

02:57:19.559 --> 02:57:26.000
down I'm glad to put the face with the name actually

02:57:26.000 --> 02:57:27.440
chairman strange went

02:57:27.440 --> 02:57:30.200
directly to my concern the fact that y'all had wanted to

02:57:30.200 --> 02:57:30.639
build the

02:57:30.639 --> 02:57:36.120
multifamily just south of there your comment was that none

02:57:36.120 --> 02:57:37.239
of your customers

02:57:37.239 --> 02:57:40.850
that want to build an ICE would want to be anywhere near

02:57:40.850 --> 02:57:42.319
residential in roadway

02:57:42.319 --> 02:57:45.950
or not that's not gonna be that big of a divider that puts

02:57:45.950 --> 02:57:46.760
them in close

02:57:46.760 --> 02:57:49.959
proximity to residential so I would tend to agree with

02:57:49.959 --> 02:57:51.719
Chairman strange that this

02:57:51.719 --> 02:57:57.200
this isn't that dissimilar but is it in your opinion that

02:57:57.200 --> 02:57:58.319
this like there's no

02:57:58.319 --> 02:58:06.959
way this lake this pond can be engineered to be stable do

02:58:06.959 --> 02:58:07.920
it have to be it would

02:58:07.920 --> 02:58:12.680
have to probably be rebuilt okay I we haven't thought of

02:58:12.680 --> 02:58:13.639
any taking any action

02:58:13.639 --> 02:58:17.270
yes but the water the drains the water streams into it and

02:58:17.270 --> 02:58:18.360
comes out at the

02:58:18.360 --> 02:58:21.260
east end and it floods down south across our land has

02:58:21.260 --> 02:58:22.760
caused damage to our land

02:58:22.760 --> 02:58:26.680
in erosion somehow that stream has to be dealt with we

02:58:26.680 --> 02:58:27.680
haven't considered any

02:58:27.680 --> 02:58:32.799
action because it was owned by someone school and and quite

02:58:32.799 --> 02:58:34.940
frankly I have to

02:58:34.940 --> 02:58:38.299
keep reminding myself that it was about charity and that's

02:58:38.299 --> 02:58:39.559
how we got into this

02:58:39.559 --> 02:58:43.989
mess of the land being configured like it is because the

02:58:43.989 --> 02:58:45.479
family was mr. razor

02:58:45.479 --> 02:58:48.639
was more interested in charitable good to sell in school

02:58:48.639 --> 02:58:50.479
than they was in and

02:58:50.479 --> 02:58:54.799
concerned about his land and so and and and even after they

02:58:54.799 --> 02:58:55.840
got into some

02:58:55.840 --> 02:59:00.790
financial trouble and they approached us about it was

02:59:00.790 --> 02:59:02.239
originally a gift of 125

02:59:02.239 --> 02:59:05.770
acres it's only about 80 acres now I think and they got

02:59:05.770 --> 02:59:07.079
into trouble and

02:59:07.079 --> 02:59:12.329
approached us and we bought back 50 acres and here again 50

02:59:12.329 --> 02:59:13.200
acres all in the

02:59:13.200 --> 02:59:16.799
floodplain and we paid a damn good penny for it so it was I

02:59:16.799 --> 02:59:17.399
keep reminding

02:59:17.399 --> 02:59:21.079
myself that was about charity not about industrial

02:59:21.079 --> 02:59:24.639
development so that's how we

02:59:24.639 --> 02:59:28.790
ended up with that 10 acres is that we basically that we

02:59:28.790 --> 02:59:29.739
took whatever they

02:59:29.739 --> 02:59:32.760
wanted to give up but I guess my question is in the concern

02:59:32.760 --> 02:59:33.479
here that you've

02:59:33.479 --> 02:59:38.569
expressed if the applicant can show us that that thing can

02:59:38.569 --> 02:59:39.520
be engineered to

02:59:39.520 --> 02:59:45.190
meet your concerns the safety of it you know I can that be

02:59:45.190 --> 02:59:46.200
removed from the

02:59:46.200 --> 02:59:50.500
equation then I would I mean I don't have any objection to

02:59:50.500 --> 02:59:51.360
the lake per se

02:59:51.360 --> 02:59:55.239
it's a bit it it's just a problem and if it stays there it

02:59:55.239 --> 02:59:56.639
stays there I assume

02:59:56.639 --> 03:00:01.709
that that the proper authorities would look after the city

03:00:01.709 --> 03:00:03.040
when in its own

03:00:03.040 --> 03:00:07.270
oversight and approvals would make sure that it's dealt

03:00:07.270 --> 03:00:09.040
with properly I mean we

03:00:09.040 --> 03:00:14.739
we're not we don't have anything contemplated except I don

03:00:14.739 --> 03:00:15.879
't see anything

03:00:15.879 --> 03:00:19.079
happening till it's dealt with in a proper fashion and it

03:00:19.079 --> 03:00:20.200
never has been I

03:00:20.200 --> 03:00:23.579
don't know that it will be so in school the reason it's

03:00:23.579 --> 03:00:24.719
like that because I

03:00:24.719 --> 03:00:27.489
don't think there was any concern given when they wanted to

03:00:27.489 --> 03:00:28.360
plant it and they

03:00:28.360 --> 03:00:31.700
basically gave up all that land that's all in a drainage

03:00:31.700 --> 03:00:33.040
easement and I think

03:00:33.040 --> 03:00:36.049
they just surrendered it without really much thought study

03:00:36.049 --> 03:00:38.200
or anything else and

03:00:38.200 --> 03:00:43.159
I certainly would have never done it but so it's it's it's

03:00:43.159 --> 03:00:45.079
really a colossal mess

03:00:45.079 --> 03:00:49.840
really in my opinion even for the future of industrial

03:00:49.840 --> 03:00:50.799
development out there I'm

03:00:50.799 --> 03:00:54.219
not sure how we're gonna do it at this moment I could tell

03:00:54.219 --> 03:00:55.280
you how we would

03:00:55.280 --> 03:01:00.010
deal with that because of the problems that exist and but

03:01:00.010 --> 03:01:01.719
we do we are holding

03:01:01.719 --> 03:01:05.239
it for industrial development in our land the 130 acres

03:01:05.239 --> 03:01:07.520
around it and so

03:01:07.520 --> 03:01:11.149
that's what we want to try to do for economic development

03:01:11.149 --> 03:01:14.159
here in the city so

03:01:14.159 --> 03:01:17.520
you know if there was a way to do this and it didn't harm

03:01:17.520 --> 03:01:19.120
any cause any harm I

03:01:19.120 --> 03:01:24.620
wouldn't be opposed to it but corporations don't typical

03:01:24.620 --> 03:01:25.479
and mine

03:01:25.479 --> 03:01:28.379
wasn't a piece of cake either down there but the roadway

03:01:28.379 --> 03:01:29.920
was the big factor it

03:01:29.920 --> 03:01:33.209
separated it in their minds separate enough that it wouldn

03:01:33.209 --> 03:01:33.959
't cause any

03:01:33.959 --> 03:01:37.000
problems and it was off to the side it wasn't surrounded so

03:01:37.000 --> 03:01:38.440
I think there was

03:01:38.440 --> 03:01:41.229
distinguishing features and I'm not trying to pick hairs

03:01:41.229 --> 03:01:42.799
Commissioner

03:01:42.799 --> 03:01:46.360
chairman's difference of opinion yeah so all right thank

03:01:46.360 --> 03:01:48.040
you sir I have a number

03:01:48.040 --> 03:01:50.920
of questions so I appreciate your patience and kinder to

03:01:50.920 --> 03:01:51.559
answer them

03:01:51.559 --> 03:01:55.190
Commissioner Smith thank you chair mr. Baker you said Colt

03:01:55.190 --> 03:01:56.799
storage was moving

03:01:56.799 --> 03:01:59.860
in where exactly on Jim Crystal they're on the south side

03:01:59.860 --> 03:02:00.760
of the southeast corner

03:02:00.760 --> 03:02:03.340
of the rail spur and Jim Crystal so Jim Crystal in the

03:02:03.340 --> 03:02:04.760
western you said or no

03:02:04.760 --> 03:02:09.270
Jim Crystal in the rail spur they need rail access they

03:02:09.270 --> 03:02:10.200
they they're gonna

03:02:10.200 --> 03:02:14.239
bring in so we could see that up on the screen

03:02:18.040 --> 03:02:32.440
be that it's a big panel we're in

03:02:48.040 --> 03:02:56.489
is that it's further south yeah can you bring that up I

03:02:56.489 --> 03:03:02.319
think that's good yes

03:03:02.319 --> 03:03:05.610
all right east of that there's a rail spur that goes north

03:03:05.610 --> 03:03:06.840
and south it's

03:03:06.840 --> 03:03:11.459
about so right near the area 84 lumber or hundred yards

03:03:11.459 --> 03:03:13.399
from Western they're

03:03:13.399 --> 03:03:17.350
right along the rail spur 50 acres they're adjacent to pack

03:03:17.350 --> 03:03:18.200
car okay okay

03:03:18.200 --> 03:03:21.409
and see where you are it's a rectangular site I see where

03:03:21.409 --> 03:03:23.799
you are sure okay so I

03:03:23.799 --> 03:03:27.639
think that makes my point it's it's not adjacent to this

03:03:27.639 --> 03:03:28.760
property in question

03:03:28.760 --> 03:03:32.270
no certainly no it's pretty it's pretty far out no that

03:03:32.270 --> 03:03:33.319
that is I was just

03:03:33.319 --> 03:03:37.000
making the reference to those businesses would not locate

03:03:37.000 --> 03:03:37.959
adjacent to this

03:03:37.959 --> 03:03:42.139
project okay that business that's the that's the they

03:03:42.139 --> 03:03:43.559
wouldn't share a boundary

03:03:43.559 --> 03:03:46.870
line with that business sure that was the issue with target

03:03:46.870 --> 03:03:48.040
it wasn't about

03:03:48.040 --> 03:03:51.090
target didn't have a problem in the area they didn't want

03:03:51.090 --> 03:03:52.399
to share a boundary with

03:03:52.399 --> 03:03:56.079
it of any kind a roadways not a boundary line okay

03:03:56.079 --> 03:04:00.000
it's a separate understood understood now it's it's

03:04:00.000 --> 03:04:01.280
currently zoned as in our

03:04:01.280 --> 03:04:05.239
two correct yes now it's done out of just you know Mr. R

03:04:05.239 --> 03:04:06.079
ager's Mr. Rager's

03:04:06.079 --> 03:04:08.440
charity for the first element school I understand that yeah

03:04:08.440 --> 03:04:09.559
so if the if the

03:04:09.559 --> 03:04:12.309
applicant decided to scrap this project and move forward

03:04:12.309 --> 03:04:13.360
with let's say out of

03:04:13.360 --> 03:04:16.870
88 at eight point seven acres so there's about 35 or so

03:04:16.870 --> 03:04:18.040
that's actually usable

03:04:18.040 --> 03:04:20.739
land and want to scrap it and build you know in our two

03:04:20.739 --> 03:04:21.959
standards so they can

03:04:21.959 --> 03:04:26.940
build what 70 homes would you guys be on board for a single

03:04:26.940 --> 03:04:27.559
-family development

03:04:27.559 --> 03:04:30.610
out there too no it's what it's zoned right now it's it's

03:04:30.610 --> 03:04:33.280
fine to go right is

03:04:33.280 --> 03:04:36.159
that what in our two is that's what an R2 is last time

03:04:36.159 --> 03:04:37.520
unchecked well if they

03:04:37.520 --> 03:04:41.950
have it by right then that's the way it is I wouldn't like

03:04:41.950 --> 03:04:43.159
it I wouldn't

03:04:43.159 --> 03:04:46.889
participate in any kind of approval process but and I think

03:04:46.889 --> 03:04:47.879
the city would

03:04:47.879 --> 03:04:54.000
make a mistake in it so it's a choice this city has and I'm

03:04:54.000 --> 03:04:54.600
not sure this

03:04:54.600 --> 03:04:57.500
would be the first one if it was but I don't think it

03:04:57.500 --> 03:04:59.559
belongs there I don't I

03:04:59.559 --> 03:05:01.870
certainly think we need single-family homes and I

03:05:01.870 --> 03:05:03.040
appreciate things like

03:05:03.040 --> 03:05:06.930
drill sites and homes and other things that in fact we we

03:05:06.930 --> 03:05:08.440
've participated in

03:05:08.440 --> 03:05:11.319
buying some back to make residential property work sure

03:05:11.319 --> 03:05:12.200
because we made some

03:05:12.200 --> 03:05:15.200
mistakes I think the point I'm trying to try to make there

03:05:15.200 --> 03:05:16.200
mr. Baker's I think

03:05:16.200 --> 03:05:19.209
that that a change in the zoning probably would make more

03:05:19.209 --> 03:05:20.600
sense here than

03:05:20.600 --> 03:05:23.629
then it would just leaving as is just because I could live

03:05:23.629 --> 03:05:24.600
with a corporate

03:05:24.600 --> 03:05:27.540
campus if you're gonna rezone it for corporate campus but

03:05:27.540 --> 03:05:28.520
not the residential

03:05:28.520 --> 03:05:30.389
component I don't see what that has to do with the

03:05:30.389 --> 03:05:31.680
corporate campus understood

03:05:31.680 --> 03:05:36.360
so the corporate campus is not in my opinion incompatible

03:05:36.360 --> 03:05:38.760
it's it's not what I

03:05:38.760 --> 03:05:42.110
would not but but that's okay what I think doesn't need but

03:05:42.110 --> 03:05:43.040
it sure it will

03:05:43.040 --> 03:05:45.610
work it's just like the United States Treasury Reserve

03:05:45.610 --> 03:05:46.600
Center that's not

03:05:46.600 --> 03:05:49.920
technically industrial but if you know what's going on out

03:05:49.920 --> 03:05:51.200
there it works

03:05:51.200 --> 03:05:54.829
police have a shooting range out there I'm working with

03:05:54.829 --> 03:05:56.159
them to help expand

03:05:56.159 --> 03:06:01.120
that it's not industrial but it works I think the corporate

03:06:01.120 --> 03:06:03.120
campus idea opposed

03:06:03.120 --> 03:06:06.020
to that I am opposed to the residential nothing I agree

03:06:06.020 --> 03:06:07.159
with you partially there

03:06:07.159 --> 03:06:09.979
that possibly and this is still in the zoning stages here

03:06:09.979 --> 03:06:10.600
we're not in

03:06:10.600 --> 03:06:14.799
plenary platter slight plan the the the I think the idea

03:06:14.799 --> 03:06:15.799
that I would I would

03:06:15.799 --> 03:06:18.600
want to communicate to the applicant would be to flip it

03:06:18.600 --> 03:06:19.360
that if the

03:06:19.360 --> 03:06:23.790
residential is closer closer to that 35 380 intersection

03:06:23.790 --> 03:06:25.280
there it's closer to

03:06:25.280 --> 03:06:28.790
the sites as you've already mentioned or northern tool is

03:06:28.790 --> 03:06:30.239
and it's further away

03:06:30.239 --> 03:06:32.360
from the industrial and it's all floodplain on the other

03:06:32.360 --> 03:06:33.559
side of that that

03:06:33.559 --> 03:06:36.850
it's not going to be developed so it seems like that would

03:06:36.850 --> 03:06:37.719
be more amenable

03:06:37.719 --> 03:06:39.500
but I think that's all I had for now I actually had a

03:06:39.500 --> 03:06:40.200
question for the

03:06:40.200 --> 03:06:43.409
applicant okay quick quick there's two things you mentioned

03:06:43.409 --> 03:06:43.840
that you were going

03:06:43.840 --> 03:06:48.790
to address the the southwest corner the southwest corner

03:06:48.790 --> 03:06:49.840
you what was going to

03:06:49.840 --> 03:06:52.899
happen oh in regards the comment or the question in work

03:06:52.899 --> 03:06:54.760
session was since it's

03:06:54.760 --> 03:06:56.989
a remaining piece I'm not sure how many acres it is I think

03:06:56.989 --> 03:06:57.680
half of its in the

03:06:57.680 --> 03:07:00.690
floodplain but since it's a remaining piece of NR to zoning

03:07:00.690 --> 03:07:01.559
have we reached

03:07:01.559 --> 03:07:04.790
out to that the neighbor in order to be brought into this

03:07:04.790 --> 03:07:06.520
zoning correct and we

03:07:06.520 --> 03:07:09.239
haven't had that that type of discussion with mr. Baker

03:07:09.239 --> 03:07:11.520
yeah okay and have you

03:07:11.520 --> 03:07:14.469
had the same as similar assessment of the pond that mr.

03:07:14.469 --> 03:07:15.760
Baker's given us and

03:07:15.760 --> 03:07:18.639
that it's and and what you guys would probably have to do

03:07:18.639 --> 03:07:19.760
to actually make that

03:07:19.760 --> 03:07:23.370
well my engineers have looked at it and we drove out there

03:07:23.370 --> 03:07:24.479
there's I mean it

03:07:24.479 --> 03:07:27.090
does the pond the water does release over here on this east

03:07:27.090 --> 03:07:27.879
side and it goes

03:07:27.879 --> 03:07:31.090
under the gas well road and under just a little metal cul

03:07:31.090 --> 03:07:32.420
vert okay so it does

03:07:32.420 --> 03:07:36.049
really confine how it's leaving the pond and if it wasn't

03:07:36.049 --> 03:07:37.440
engineered when the

03:07:37.440 --> 03:07:40.020
school came in they just someone else just did it you know

03:07:40.020 --> 03:07:41.200
we have to we have

03:07:41.200 --> 03:07:44.959
as an engineers we sign our name on these documents saying

03:07:44.959 --> 03:07:45.840
that we you know

03:07:45.840 --> 03:07:48.350
that we design in accordance with state law we have to make

03:07:48.350 --> 03:07:49.319
sure that it will be

03:07:49.319 --> 03:07:51.760
engineered and corrected so you will you're willing to make

03:07:51.760 --> 03:07:52.239
that correction

03:07:52.239 --> 03:07:54.540
yes I do the work that's needed for okay yes that's all I

03:07:54.540 --> 03:07:57.680
have thank you ma'am

03:07:59.479 --> 03:08:04.440
commissioner Sanchez just to clarify that ten acres isn't

03:08:04.440 --> 03:08:05.559
it it was part of

03:08:05.559 --> 03:08:08.440
the 50 we bought back it's the only part that isn't in the

03:08:08.440 --> 03:08:09.760
floodplain but it's

03:08:09.760 --> 03:08:13.520
surrounded by flesh here so it's not in the floodplain yes

03:08:13.520 --> 03:08:15.040
sir well I just I

03:08:15.040 --> 03:08:19.989
wanted to the applicant I just I guess I just want to

03:08:19.989 --> 03:08:21.639
address upon that big

03:08:21.639 --> 03:08:25.729
ten acres it's just nobody can just go out there and make a

03:08:25.729 --> 03:08:27.000
hole in the ground

03:08:27.000 --> 03:08:30.379
it has to be engineered by and probably the conservation

03:08:30.379 --> 03:08:31.799
service you know built

03:08:31.799 --> 03:08:36.430
a lot of these points back in you know the 50 60 70s so I

03:08:36.430 --> 03:08:38.120
would think that if

03:08:38.120 --> 03:08:40.459
you probably look at the history that was probably built by

03:08:40.459 --> 03:08:40.879
the soil

03:08:40.879 --> 03:08:46.110
conservation service do you believe you think it was that

03:08:46.110 --> 03:08:49.120
pond yeah no it wasn't

03:08:49.120 --> 03:08:51.209
built by the soil conservation service I personally think

03:08:51.209 --> 03:08:52.360
the headmaster went and

03:08:52.360 --> 03:08:55.329
got five buddies and granted a bucket a backhoe and they

03:08:55.329 --> 03:08:56.799
went and dug it okay

03:08:56.799 --> 03:08:59.680
that's how I think it came about I'm just thinking ponds

03:08:59.680 --> 03:09:01.360
that big or lake

03:09:01.360 --> 03:09:03.819
it's almost the size of a lake he says ten acres it's

03:09:03.819 --> 03:09:05.200
pretty good size so you

03:09:05.200 --> 03:09:08.260
just can't do it and and now that you mentioned about the

03:09:08.260 --> 03:09:09.440
side spiel I know

03:09:09.440 --> 03:09:14.010
the soil conservation service when they build ponds that's

03:09:14.010 --> 03:09:14.959
what that's where

03:09:14.959 --> 03:09:18.040
their spillway would be they build the dam they wouldn't

03:09:18.040 --> 03:09:19.000
put a drain in the

03:09:19.000 --> 03:09:21.489
front they would put a drain on the side so it would drain

03:09:21.489 --> 03:09:22.600
off the side that's

03:09:22.600 --> 03:09:24.829
what makes me think the soil conservation might have might

03:09:24.829 --> 03:09:25.159
have built

03:09:25.159 --> 03:09:27.909
that you may look with soil conservation service and see if

03:09:27.909 --> 03:09:28.920
they have plans on

03:09:28.920 --> 03:09:31.610
that and see what they did I bet I bet they might they

03:09:31.610 --> 03:09:32.680
might have been the ones

03:09:32.680 --> 03:09:35.559
that built that it was built by selling school back when

03:09:35.559 --> 03:09:36.360
they first opened the

03:09:36.360 --> 03:09:39.260
school back in the early 60s but they might they might have

03:09:39.260 --> 03:09:41.639
been so they

03:09:41.639 --> 03:09:46.180
would sponsor by them but the actual contractors and and

03:09:46.180 --> 03:09:47.159
the plans were might

03:09:47.159 --> 03:09:49.799
have been might have been built by the so might have been

03:09:49.799 --> 03:09:50.840
developed by the soil

03:09:50.840 --> 03:09:53.959
conservation service maybe it was I wouldn't know because I

03:09:53.959 --> 03:09:54.719
wasn't here then

03:09:54.719 --> 03:09:59.719
but but the water doesn't the water does come in where it

03:09:59.719 --> 03:10:01.239
goes out right at the

03:10:01.239 --> 03:10:04.959
east end it's there's no spillway on it my understanding

03:10:04.959 --> 03:10:06.120
and I've seen it yeah

03:10:06.120 --> 03:10:08.750
well I'll say some of the ponds that we saw that I've seen

03:10:08.750 --> 03:10:09.760
them build they

03:10:09.760 --> 03:10:13.649
actually spill off to the side and and and what it that

03:10:13.649 --> 03:10:15.319
pond probably was built

03:10:15.319 --> 03:10:18.440
it to because there's probably a lot of water running off

03:10:18.440 --> 03:10:20.879
that I appreciate you

03:10:20.879 --> 03:10:23.440
bringing this up we're gonna do zoning okay we'll have to

03:10:23.440 --> 03:10:24.319
come back I appreciate

03:10:24.319 --> 03:10:27.110
you bringing that up and I've got another question

03:10:27.110 --> 03:10:28.920
Commissioner Ellis thank you

03:10:28.920 --> 03:10:33.200
sure this is for mr. Baker mr. Baker thanks for sharing

03:10:33.200 --> 03:10:33.920
your thoughts and

03:10:33.920 --> 03:10:37.719
helping us try to understand your opposition you mentioned

03:10:37.719 --> 03:10:38.559
the word harm

03:10:38.559 --> 03:10:42.319
in in one of your statements this causing harm could you

03:10:42.319 --> 03:10:43.239
elaborate on what

03:10:43.239 --> 03:10:49.000
you mean by that statement well the the land around it is

03:10:49.000 --> 03:10:50.440
we own is close to

03:10:50.440 --> 03:10:57.739
130 acres and if if it's rezoned for now the the

03:10:57.739 --> 03:10:59.479
residential is that the really

03:10:59.479 --> 03:11:04.149
the part that bothers me worries me then if we can't locate

03:11:04.149 --> 03:11:06.079
industrial users next

03:11:06.079 --> 03:11:09.159
to that because that's a problem then what do we do with it

03:11:09.159 --> 03:11:10.239
what are we forced

03:11:10.239 --> 03:11:14.840
to do with it I hope that doesn't happen I mean we want to

03:11:14.840 --> 03:11:15.840
market it and we are

03:11:15.840 --> 03:11:22.000
for industrial use that's what the city has got it under

03:11:22.000 --> 03:11:23.159
their 2030 plan we've

03:11:23.159 --> 03:11:26.930
never objected to that that whole corridor in there has

03:11:26.930 --> 03:11:28.639
been that way for

03:11:28.639 --> 03:11:33.590
for a long time so I don't think anybody anticipated

03:11:33.590 --> 03:11:35.639
selling school going away

03:11:35.639 --> 03:11:42.239
but I don't want to I don't want to we don't want to thwart

03:11:42.239 --> 03:11:42.920
I mean I don't want

03:11:42.920 --> 03:11:45.969
to stand in the way of the guys development if it works and

03:11:45.969 --> 03:11:46.559
it's good

03:11:46.559 --> 03:11:50.719
for the city and it makes sense and it doesn't do any harm

03:11:50.719 --> 03:11:51.600
now and the harm

03:11:51.600 --> 03:11:54.799
there is would be created if something happens and there's

03:11:54.799 --> 03:11:55.920
damage collateral

03:11:55.920 --> 03:12:00.479
damage if we if we can't get the topography or whatever we

03:12:00.479 --> 03:12:01.600
need to do in

03:12:01.600 --> 03:12:06.350
there because of this then what then that's land that never

03:12:06.350 --> 03:12:07.520
goes on the tax

03:12:07.520 --> 03:12:13.280
rolls it's in ag use now and so I'm not I'm not opposed to

03:12:13.280 --> 03:12:14.520
his development I'm

03:12:14.520 --> 03:12:17.940
opposed to anything that's gonna interfere with the

03:12:17.940 --> 03:12:19.200
economic activity

03:12:19.200 --> 03:12:22.079
that's that's been in plans for a long time unless there's

03:12:22.079 --> 03:12:22.719
some compelling

03:12:22.719 --> 03:12:25.909
reason I mean if there's a compelling reason then yeah we

03:12:25.909 --> 03:12:26.799
have to look at it

03:12:26.799 --> 03:12:29.760
but I don't I don't think there is here the corporate

03:12:29.760 --> 03:12:31.040
campus I think works I

03:12:31.040 --> 03:12:35.659
think the retail and the restaurants along University is

03:12:35.659 --> 03:12:37.200
fine I think that

03:12:37.200 --> 03:12:39.559
would work whether it works economically is another

03:12:39.559 --> 03:12:40.760
question but that's not an

03:12:40.760 --> 03:12:43.000
issue here we're not we're talking about zoning I think

03:12:43.000 --> 03:12:44.120
that's established and

03:12:44.120 --> 03:12:47.100
should be allowed there and and the corporate campus thing

03:12:47.100 --> 03:12:48.239
would probably be

03:12:48.239 --> 03:12:50.889
fine the issue is I mean we are dealing with zoning and our

03:12:50.889 --> 03:12:51.719
two does not make

03:12:51.719 --> 03:12:53.969
any sense for this piece of property no it doesn't and I

03:12:53.969 --> 03:12:54.959
agree with that and the

03:12:54.959 --> 03:12:59.530
request is our CCD which does make sense for this piece of

03:12:59.530 --> 03:13:01.120
property it does I

03:13:01.120 --> 03:13:04.850
understand what you're saying and and and I voted against

03:13:04.850 --> 03:13:06.079
your zoning request

03:13:06.079 --> 03:13:10.389
because your request was changing it that it was already z

03:13:10.389 --> 03:13:12.200
oned industrial and

03:13:12.200 --> 03:13:15.129
this particular request that you were making was putting

03:13:15.129 --> 03:13:15.879
this piece of

03:13:15.879 --> 03:13:18.110
property in the middle of all of that industrial which to

03:13:18.110 --> 03:13:18.680
me did not make

03:13:18.680 --> 03:13:23.799
sense this it's NR to now that makes no sense our CCD does

03:13:23.799 --> 03:13:25.479
and especially I know

03:13:25.479 --> 03:13:28.629
you're talking about no major road buffer or anything but I

03:13:28.629 --> 03:13:29.399
mean the fact

03:13:29.399 --> 03:13:33.920
that it's right there off of 380 and would be developed

03:13:33.920 --> 03:13:34.760
however it's going to

03:13:34.760 --> 03:13:39.190
be developed within our CCD and in its land uses makes

03:13:39.190 --> 03:13:41.200
sense and I don't I

03:13:41.200 --> 03:13:44.559
don't believe it harms your ability to continue to market

03:13:44.559 --> 03:13:45.760
your land and I have

03:13:45.760 --> 03:13:49.190
no doubt that you'll get creative if you find that you can

03:13:49.190 --> 03:13:50.399
't market it a certain

03:13:50.399 --> 03:13:52.989
way so you'll give us the same zoning on the rest of our

03:13:52.989 --> 03:13:55.799
land out there I would

03:13:55.799 --> 03:13:59.399
take a zoning change one at a time as I always do and give

03:13:59.399 --> 03:14:01.639
it my complete well I

03:14:01.639 --> 03:14:05.000
think there was some compelling reasons to differentiate

03:14:05.000 --> 03:14:06.680
that from the zoning

03:14:06.680 --> 03:14:10.760
change that you disagreed with which I understand and and

03:14:10.760 --> 03:14:14.200
as I told the mayor if

03:14:14.200 --> 03:14:18.219
that land looked and looked like Peterbilt and the land

03:14:18.219 --> 03:14:19.440
that Peterbilt

03:14:19.440 --> 03:14:23.889
owns and Tetra Pak and WNCO and United States cold storage

03:14:23.889 --> 03:14:24.360
we wouldn't have

03:14:24.360 --> 03:14:26.870
been having that discussion I would have never come before

03:14:26.870 --> 03:14:29.760
you because we saw it

03:14:29.760 --> 03:14:33.500
as industrial but we couldn't interest anybody in it so if

03:14:33.500 --> 03:14:34.760
it sits there and

03:14:34.760 --> 03:14:37.680
it's not going to be good to us or the city or anybody

03:14:37.680 --> 03:14:39.239
economically then maybe

03:14:39.239 --> 03:14:41.799
you need to rethink it we thought there was some different

03:14:41.799 --> 03:14:42.840
fact patterns there

03:14:42.840 --> 03:14:47.479
and that's why if if I'm wrong about this then I'm wrong I

03:14:47.479 --> 03:14:49.399
'm not sure I've

03:14:49.399 --> 03:14:54.540
talked to my engineers and I'm not opposed I don't know

03:14:54.540 --> 03:14:56.319
what all's in that

03:14:56.319 --> 03:14:59.280
zoning I'm not opposed to like I said the corporate campus

03:14:59.280 --> 03:15:00.159
or the retail in

03:15:00.159 --> 03:15:05.280
the right place I just think the housing is in this

03:15:05.280 --> 03:15:06.879
particular stuck in the middle

03:15:06.879 --> 03:15:11.309
of it is a mistake but that's my opinion I don't want to

03:15:11.309 --> 03:15:13.200
hurt the city overall I

03:15:13.200 --> 03:15:15.799
want to do what's good and best for the city and if that's

03:15:15.799 --> 03:15:16.680
what you think is

03:15:16.680 --> 03:15:20.770
right then that's the way it should be I have a final

03:15:20.770 --> 03:15:22.840
question for you and this

03:15:22.840 --> 03:15:25.840
will be the last one at least what's on the board I know

03:15:25.840 --> 03:15:27.280
you're in the in the

03:15:27.280 --> 03:15:30.959
development business and land management business I guess a

03:15:30.959 --> 03:15:33.920
question to me is to

03:15:33.920 --> 03:15:39.879
to pose to you you have some valid concerns but I don't

03:15:39.879 --> 03:15:42.000
understand with

03:15:42.000 --> 03:15:44.950
your background and what you do is why there hasn't been a

03:15:44.950 --> 03:15:46.120
discussion between

03:15:46.120 --> 03:15:49.729
you and the applicant to go talk about these things and

03:15:49.729 --> 03:15:50.840
work all this out

03:15:50.840 --> 03:15:54.829
behind the scenes in private and come to us instead of the

03:15:54.829 --> 03:15:56.680
public back and forth

03:15:56.680 --> 03:16:00.309
that's been delayed I don't remember how many times to have

03:16:00.309 --> 03:16:01.159
conversations we were

03:16:01.159 --> 03:16:04.680
told to address these things and yet there's talk with

03:16:04.680 --> 03:16:06.000
engineers this morning

03:16:06.000 --> 03:16:09.170
and talk tonight and it seems to me that as big a deal as

03:16:09.170 --> 03:16:10.360
this is and as big a

03:16:10.360 --> 03:16:12.590
deal as the properties are around you the two you guys

03:16:12.590 --> 03:16:13.440
would have got together

03:16:13.440 --> 03:16:17.059
and had several meetings and said how do we find something

03:16:17.059 --> 03:16:18.239
that works for all

03:16:18.239 --> 03:16:22.219
parties and come to this body with some type of a

03:16:22.219 --> 03:16:24.639
compromise or we've worked

03:16:24.639 --> 03:16:28.059
this out we'd like to see the corporate campus on the West

03:16:28.059 --> 03:16:29.479
and the multifamily

03:16:29.479 --> 03:16:33.559
on the East and now we support it those guys gave something

03:16:33.559 --> 03:16:34.559
and we worked it out

03:16:34.559 --> 03:16:38.239
and came here so can you answer that well I'll try my best

03:16:38.239 --> 03:16:39.600
chairman their

03:16:39.600 --> 03:16:42.809
engineer just contacted me a day ago and I just returned

03:16:42.809 --> 03:16:44.959
the call today so I've

03:16:44.959 --> 03:16:48.639
been like many of you busy and I just took a day or two

03:16:48.639 --> 03:16:50.120
before I got back to

03:16:50.120 --> 03:16:53.500
them but I just got contacted with any concerns they have

03:16:53.500 --> 03:16:54.200
and they wanted to

03:16:54.200 --> 03:16:59.920
know how I felt well prior to this all I got was the zoning

03:16:59.920 --> 03:17:00.879
change notice

03:17:00.879 --> 03:17:03.670
because we own the adjacent property I didn't know what

03:17:03.670 --> 03:17:05.040
they were going after I

03:17:05.040 --> 03:17:08.559
didn't know I didn't look up the zoning change I didn't

03:17:08.559 --> 03:17:09.760
know all what was

03:17:09.760 --> 03:17:13.280
intended so I thought I did what any reasonable person

03:17:13.280 --> 03:17:14.040
would do I just

03:17:14.040 --> 03:17:16.920
protested saying all right this will get to the bottom of

03:17:16.920 --> 03:17:17.799
it rather than

03:17:17.799 --> 03:17:21.680
willy-nilly just say no big deal so if you look at my

03:17:21.680 --> 03:17:23.399
protest it was blank I

03:17:23.399 --> 03:17:26.549
had nothing to offer because I didn't know what was going

03:17:26.549 --> 03:17:28.020
on so I that's why

03:17:28.020 --> 03:17:32.299
I objected then subsequent to that the applicant did show

03:17:32.299 --> 03:17:33.719
me a concept plan and

03:17:33.719 --> 03:17:39.639
it showed a lot of multifamily so that's why I protested so

03:17:39.639 --> 03:17:41.319
I'm not inherently

03:17:41.319 --> 03:17:44.950
opposed to that I don't think the factors are in place that

03:17:44.950 --> 03:17:46.159
separate this

03:17:46.159 --> 03:17:50.659
from what we did on the other part of the east side of the

03:17:50.659 --> 03:17:51.879
property so if

03:17:51.879 --> 03:17:54.540
those facts existed I wouldn't be here tonight talking to

03:17:54.540 --> 03:17:55.399
you because if they

03:17:55.399 --> 03:17:58.440
were the same it wouldn't it would be the same result in my

03:17:58.440 --> 03:18:00.120
opinion okay well

03:18:00.120 --> 03:18:02.559
let me pose another question and I appreciate your answer

03:18:02.559 --> 03:18:04.360
yes this board

03:18:04.360 --> 03:18:07.409
has purview and we do zoning cases to do overlays and

03:18:07.409 --> 03:18:08.840
restrict uses and things

03:18:08.840 --> 03:18:12.760
and zoning and this has been delayed a number of times and

03:18:12.760 --> 03:18:14.600
I understand your

03:18:14.600 --> 03:18:17.719
concern and I don't know if there's a possibility for you

03:18:17.719 --> 03:18:18.920
and the applicant to

03:18:18.920 --> 03:18:22.209
ask for a continuance on this for two weeks or 30 days to

03:18:22.209 --> 03:18:23.479
go get together so

03:18:23.479 --> 03:18:26.299
you know what if you guys will put the corporate campus on

03:18:26.299 --> 03:18:27.520
the west side you

03:18:27.520 --> 03:18:31.079
know what I'm golden with the multifamily on the east side

03:18:31.079 --> 03:18:31.399
it comes

03:18:31.399 --> 03:18:34.909
back to us under a zoning with an overlay and restrictions

03:18:34.909 --> 03:18:35.680
on it your

03:18:35.680 --> 03:18:38.329
properties protected they have some surety of what they're

03:18:38.329 --> 03:18:39.040
gonna do you guys

03:18:39.040 --> 03:18:41.940
work all this out and we can go you know what private

03:18:41.940 --> 03:18:42.879
individuals got together

03:18:42.879 --> 03:18:46.399
work this out you guys can agree with it it meets the city

03:18:46.399 --> 03:18:47.700
code who are we to say

03:18:47.700 --> 03:18:52.950
no I wouldn't say no that chairman I I would contact our

03:18:52.950 --> 03:18:54.120
engineers Kim Lee Horn

03:18:54.120 --> 03:18:57.920
and ask them what's the best way for us to deal with this

03:18:57.920 --> 03:18:59.280
and ask them for their

03:18:59.280 --> 03:19:03.219
advice and consultation I haven't I haven't weighed in I

03:19:03.219 --> 03:19:03.920
know one's weighed

03:19:03.920 --> 03:19:07.600
in with me on this you know I'm not trying to put words in

03:19:07.600 --> 03:19:08.159
your mouth I was

03:19:08.159 --> 03:19:11.409
just looking at the record we've had it I think it's been

03:19:11.409 --> 03:19:12.639
continued two or three

03:19:12.639 --> 03:19:16.059
times before I wasn't aware of that mr. chairman I don't

03:19:16.059 --> 03:19:16.719
know any of the

03:19:16.719 --> 03:19:20.399
details but I can tell you this if the if the consultants

03:19:20.399 --> 03:19:21.639
told me this is the

03:19:21.639 --> 03:19:24.440
best way this will work I'm not gonna stand in the way of

03:19:24.440 --> 03:19:25.920
that I don't want to

03:19:25.920 --> 03:19:28.319
stand in the way of his development or anybody else's but

03:19:28.319 --> 03:19:29.479
it needs to make sense

03:19:29.479 --> 03:19:32.219
it doesn't need to be just carving out a hole out of the

03:19:32.219 --> 03:19:33.520
middle of the piece and

03:19:33.520 --> 03:19:37.719
saying this will work you know what that's what I'm worried

03:19:37.719 --> 03:19:38.680
about sure so you

03:19:38.680 --> 03:19:45.239
know if if it if I wish no harm on anyone I don't I'm no

03:19:45.239 --> 03:19:46.159
expert on all the

03:19:46.159 --> 03:19:49.989
zoning issues but I want at the end of the day yes do I

03:19:49.989 --> 03:19:51.239
want what's good for us

03:19:51.239 --> 03:19:54.850
you bet I do that's what I'm paid to do but I also as a

03:19:54.850 --> 03:19:56.639
coal already that I need

03:19:56.639 --> 03:19:59.129
to also worry about what's in the best interest of this

03:19:59.129 --> 03:20:00.319
city and everybody else

03:20:00.319 --> 03:20:03.340
I don't want to cause any harm to my neighbors or anybody

03:20:03.340 --> 03:20:09.379
else but if if if I

03:20:09.379 --> 03:20:14.309
just don't do anything and in 10 acres screws up 150 that I

03:20:14.309 --> 03:20:15.600
'm a sorry person

03:20:15.600 --> 03:20:19.129
for not paying attention and that's what I worry about I'm

03:20:19.129 --> 03:20:21.479
honestly yes I worry

03:20:21.479 --> 03:20:24.260
about what I'm supposed to worry about but I also have a

03:20:24.260 --> 03:20:25.120
bigger need or a

03:20:25.120 --> 03:20:27.819
bigger requirement is to make sure it works good for this

03:20:27.819 --> 03:20:28.840
city because if the

03:20:28.840 --> 03:20:32.040
city screwed then we're all screwed understand so we

03:20:32.040 --> 03:20:32.680
understand that

03:20:32.680 --> 03:20:36.030
completely sitting on this Commission appreciate very much

03:20:36.030 --> 03:20:36.879
the time that you

03:20:36.879 --> 03:20:40.489
come before us and all the answers and patience that you've

03:20:40.489 --> 03:20:41.280
given to answer

03:20:41.280 --> 03:20:45.440
Commission I've got a final question for the applicant

03:20:45.440 --> 03:20:49.239
thank you sir yes sir

03:20:49.239 --> 03:20:52.799
y'all continued this a number of times and I think we just

03:20:52.799 --> 03:20:53.879
had some conversations

03:20:53.879 --> 03:20:56.600
maybe there's an opportunity to address all the concerns

03:20:56.600 --> 03:20:58.000
and come back before us

03:20:58.000 --> 03:21:02.950
with a hopefully a consensus that if y'all will do

03:21:02.950 --> 03:21:05.319
corporate over here and

03:21:05.319 --> 03:21:09.399
multifamily over here that their interest is protected

03:21:09.399 --> 03:21:10.120
there are large

03:21:10.120 --> 03:21:12.719
stakeholder in the city and I understand the position that

03:21:12.719 --> 03:21:14.600
they're in with the

03:21:14.600 --> 03:21:17.389
chairdableness of Selwyn and how that's gone south and all

03:21:17.389 --> 03:21:18.440
those types of things

03:21:18.440 --> 03:21:21.969
is there some time crunch that you're under that gosh we

03:21:21.969 --> 03:21:23.000
really need to have

03:21:23.000 --> 03:21:27.579
this done the next two weeks or can this be come back in a

03:21:27.579 --> 03:21:28.840
couple weeks or 30

03:21:28.840 --> 03:21:31.290
days with hopefully a consensus and looks like we're gonna

03:21:31.290 --> 03:21:32.040
get it looks like

03:21:32.040 --> 03:21:36.879
my yes I think he's gonna get a card but yeah you're right

03:21:36.879 --> 03:21:38.799
we have and with all

03:21:38.799 --> 03:21:41.680
due respect Phil and the razor family are the most impacted

03:21:41.680 --> 03:21:42.319
by what we do

03:21:42.319 --> 03:21:46.770
absolutely and so we definitely we want to incorporate what

03:21:46.770 --> 03:21:47.639
concerns that they

03:21:47.639 --> 03:21:50.360
have and try to address them in the plan as much as we can

03:21:50.360 --> 03:21:52.079
but we you know our

03:21:52.079 --> 03:21:55.440
thought was that they are significantly buffered by the

03:21:55.440 --> 03:21:56.920
natural features so the

03:21:56.920 --> 03:22:00.639
impact is minimal if there's a way that we could integrate

03:22:00.639 --> 03:22:01.920
our layout and our

03:22:01.920 --> 03:22:04.549
design with theirs and I think the concept plan that he's

03:22:04.549 --> 03:22:05.360
referring to is

03:22:05.360 --> 03:22:09.600
one way before I got involved so it's it's it's not the one

03:22:09.600 --> 03:22:10.639
that we're working

03:22:10.639 --> 03:22:15.280
on right now I think ever it wants to say something so let

03:22:15.280 --> 03:22:15.799
me let him talk

03:22:15.799 --> 03:22:18.540
before I think we may have another card wishing to speak on

03:22:18.540 --> 03:22:21.719
this item so public

03:22:21.719 --> 03:22:24.370
hearing is anybody here that would like to speak on this

03:22:24.370 --> 03:22:25.920
item please come

03:22:25.920 --> 03:22:30.079
forward at this time give us your name and address ever at

03:22:30.079 --> 03:22:32.159
Newland 84 85 Jim

03:22:32.159 --> 03:22:37.879
Crystal Road Denton Texas 76 207 pardon for dress I came

03:22:37.879 --> 03:22:38.799
from baseball practice

03:22:38.799 --> 03:22:42.770
at Denton Calvary which all approved at SUP for so we'll

03:22:42.770 --> 03:22:43.760
have baseball practice

03:22:43.760 --> 03:22:47.549
indoors tonight not with that 30 degrees outside so thank

03:22:47.549 --> 03:22:49.319
you for that we've

03:22:49.319 --> 03:22:55.479
tried I love your idea we've tried my seller my client Fred

03:22:55.479 --> 03:22:57.479
Nichols who is in

03:22:57.479 --> 03:23:01.260
the crowd has talked to Phil about this apparently mr.

03:23:01.260 --> 03:23:03.040
Baker didn't recall that

03:23:03.040 --> 03:23:07.239
there's been boy smells left and we have hit a stonewall

03:23:07.239 --> 03:23:08.840
every time that we've

03:23:08.840 --> 03:23:13.000
tried so I love your idea of a continuance but I'm afraid

03:23:13.000 --> 03:23:13.879
we'd just be

03:23:13.879 --> 03:23:17.250
reinventing the wheel and we'd be back on the same hamster

03:23:17.250 --> 03:23:18.239
wheel of call no

03:23:18.239 --> 03:23:24.309
return call no return call no return okay well since we can

03:23:24.309 --> 03:23:25.639
't do what we like

03:23:25.639 --> 03:23:27.889
to do in these situations is let the parties that are

03:23:27.889 --> 03:23:29.000
affected go and work it

03:23:29.000 --> 03:23:31.690
out and come back to us and go hey we've come to an

03:23:31.690 --> 03:23:32.920
agreement what do you guys

03:23:32.920 --> 03:23:38.399
say it makes it really easy on us is there a concern if we

03:23:38.399 --> 03:23:39.200
did an overlay

03:23:39.200 --> 03:23:44.049
that does it tie you down too much to put the corporate

03:23:44.049 --> 03:23:45.159
campus on the west

03:23:45.159 --> 03:23:48.840
side and the multifamily on the east address what their

03:23:48.840 --> 03:23:51.159
concerns are again

03:23:51.159 --> 03:23:55.920
that's a concept plan flipping them is and this is a zoning

03:23:55.920 --> 03:23:56.520
case you know I

03:23:56.520 --> 03:23:59.250
mean we'll get the outside plan we have no problem flipping

03:23:59.250 --> 03:24:00.120
them you know the

03:24:00.120 --> 03:24:02.799
market will partly dictate that I don't think we do

03:24:02.799 --> 03:24:04.280
engineering wise yeah we

03:24:04.280 --> 03:24:06.059
don't we don't have your problem flip-flopping them the

03:24:06.059 --> 03:24:06.760
only concern that

03:24:06.760 --> 03:24:09.639
that I have trying to help in this situation trying to

03:24:09.639 --> 03:24:10.799
manage your project

03:24:10.799 --> 03:24:14.110
is when we take action and we do that it's done and we don

03:24:14.110 --> 03:24:15.319
't want to create a

03:24:15.319 --> 03:24:20.340
burden that here in two minutes of discussion sure put an

03:24:20.340 --> 03:24:21.120
overlay on this

03:24:21.120 --> 03:24:23.569
property line and everything west of that is this and

03:24:23.569 --> 03:24:24.760
everything east of that

03:24:24.760 --> 03:24:28.559
is this and then two or three months from now you do your

03:24:28.559 --> 03:24:29.879
site plan you know

03:24:29.879 --> 03:24:33.959
what this doesn't work so that's the only hesitation that I

03:24:33.959 --> 03:24:34.680
would have in

03:24:34.680 --> 03:24:39.239
offering that this evening to try to move this forward and

03:24:39.239 --> 03:24:40.360
get you all at

03:24:40.360 --> 03:24:45.149
least before us for a vote the only trade-off for us is if

03:24:45.149 --> 03:24:46.159
we bring a

03:24:46.159 --> 03:24:49.370
corporate campus in the benefit for that for the city and

03:24:49.370 --> 03:24:50.799
if we flip-flop it then

03:24:50.799 --> 03:24:53.399
the corporate campus doesn't overlook the lake and it kind

03:24:53.399 --> 03:24:54.159
of loses some of

03:24:54.159 --> 03:24:56.639
the draw because the way that hill sits and the way we have

03:24:56.639 --> 03:24:57.520
it with the corporate

03:24:57.520 --> 03:25:01.280
campus on this side executive suites looking out over

03:25:01.280 --> 03:25:02.120
walking trails over

03:25:02.120 --> 03:25:07.500
that lake and there is a company that we are courting that

03:25:07.500 --> 03:25:09.600
Denton is courting and

03:25:09.600 --> 03:25:11.950
everybody says long shot we're still in the running and I

03:25:11.950 --> 03:25:12.959
believe Denton's best

03:25:12.959 --> 03:25:15.860
place in America so I think they're coming I may be crazy I

03:25:15.860 --> 03:25:17.040
may not but I

03:25:17.040 --> 03:25:19.770
think sitting sitting with an executive that's thinking

03:25:19.770 --> 03:25:20.559
about moving his

03:25:20.559 --> 03:25:24.069
company to Denton on that hill overlooking the lake so that

03:25:24.069 --> 03:25:24.680
's the only

03:25:24.680 --> 03:25:27.700
reason why I'd want to keep the way we have it with

03:25:27.700 --> 03:25:30.440
corporate on the east east

03:25:30.440 --> 03:25:35.840
and the multifamily on the west yes sir yes sir okay I have

03:25:35.840 --> 03:25:36.559
some other questions

03:25:36.559 --> 03:25:40.680
if you'll stand Commissioner Ellis and I'll let you take

03:25:40.680 --> 03:25:41.639
the floor thank you

03:25:41.639 --> 03:25:45.159
it's really a response to him but hello everyone how are

03:25:45.159 --> 03:25:48.639
you good well I like

03:25:48.639 --> 03:25:50.770
where you were going with this I mean the bottom line is

03:25:50.770 --> 03:25:51.719
this is a zoning case

03:25:51.719 --> 03:25:55.649
and the zoning request makes sense and they can't move

03:25:55.649 --> 03:25:57.200
forward with really

03:25:57.200 --> 03:26:02.040
their plan until they have the zoning and can sell it and

03:26:02.040 --> 03:26:03.200
before they could

03:26:03.200 --> 03:26:06.200
really agree to flip-flopping anything hopefully what can

03:26:06.200 --> 03:26:07.120
happen is maybe we

03:26:07.120 --> 03:26:10.920
can move this along to City Council and you can continue

03:26:10.920 --> 03:26:12.799
the conversation maybe

03:26:12.799 --> 03:26:15.819
he can pull his opposition between now and when City

03:26:15.819 --> 03:26:17.280
Council has to vote on it

03:26:17.280 --> 03:26:20.729
I don't know that but but maybe if you know if we can vote

03:26:20.729 --> 03:26:21.920
on this and get it

03:26:21.920 --> 03:26:26.180
moved they can maybe continue and and and and move things

03:26:26.180 --> 03:26:26.959
along that would be

03:26:26.959 --> 03:26:32.090
mine my comments okay thank you perfect Commissioner Rose

03:26:32.090 --> 03:26:33.799
lle thank you chair I

03:26:33.799 --> 03:26:38.500
echo Commissioner Ellis's point this is a rezone case to R

03:26:38.500 --> 03:26:39.360
CCD which makes sense

03:26:39.360 --> 03:26:42.739
the multifamily is gonna come back as an SUP anyways we'll

03:26:42.739 --> 03:26:43.639
we'll see how it fits

03:26:43.639 --> 03:26:46.639
then but I wouldn't be it doesn't seem like it's impossible

03:26:46.639 --> 03:26:47.000
but I wouldn't be

03:26:47.000 --> 03:26:50.809
in favor of trying to encourage a re-engagement offline to

03:26:50.809 --> 03:26:51.479
delay the

03:26:51.479 --> 03:27:01.250
project anymore okay any other questions for ever okay this

03:27:01.250 --> 03:27:05.239
thank you this is a

03:27:05.239 --> 03:27:07.600
public hearing anyone else who would like to speak on this

03:27:07.600 --> 03:27:08.319
item please come

03:27:08.319 --> 03:27:15.579
forward at this time seeing none I will close the public

03:27:15.579 --> 03:27:16.639
hearing and open the

03:27:16.639 --> 03:27:22.409
floor for discussion or a motion Commissioner Smith thank

03:27:22.409 --> 03:27:23.120
you chair I

03:27:23.120 --> 03:27:29.770
think that uh mr. Rivera I wouldn't looked at Cypress

03:27:29.770 --> 03:27:31.079
Waters while we've been

03:27:31.079 --> 03:27:34.329
sitting here and I think that that based off if you're

03:27:34.329 --> 03:27:35.079
saying that's what we're

03:27:35.079 --> 03:27:38.139
kind of looking at here as for the conceptual side of it on

03:27:38.139 --> 03:27:39.000
being as close

03:27:39.000 --> 03:27:42.420
to DFW as that location is I think that this fits for what

03:27:42.420 --> 03:27:43.639
we want being

03:27:43.639 --> 03:27:45.989
between the convention center being very close to the Dent

03:27:45.989 --> 03:27:47.040
Enterprise Airport and

03:27:47.040 --> 03:27:50.459
is the seventh busiest airport in the state this project

03:27:50.459 --> 03:27:51.280
makes sense and so I

03:27:51.280 --> 03:27:58.430
full-heartedly a motion to approve Z 1725 C Commissioner

03:27:58.430 --> 03:27:59.239
Roselle thank you

03:27:59.239 --> 03:28:02.680
chair I will be seconding that motion but before I do it I

03:28:02.680 --> 03:28:03.840
feel obliged to say

03:28:03.840 --> 03:28:08.440
couple things one as a tender of so in school and oddly

03:28:08.440 --> 03:28:10.280
enough a resident of

03:28:10.280 --> 03:28:14.200
so in school for a time this project always as it's been

03:28:14.200 --> 03:28:15.799
percolating around

03:28:15.799 --> 03:28:18.059
the place it's always been personal to me to see what's

03:28:18.059 --> 03:28:19.040
gonna happen with the

03:28:19.040 --> 03:28:22.250
property and so seen that come to fruition actually

03:28:22.250 --> 03:28:23.559
progress happening

03:28:23.559 --> 03:28:27.190
property I'm super excited about and I'm hopeful that

03:28:27.190 --> 03:28:28.719
whatever secret company

03:28:28.719 --> 03:28:31.930
might be cordon comes through so be interested to see what

03:28:31.930 --> 03:28:32.959
happens with that

03:28:32.959 --> 03:28:37.909
the other thing is there was a Denton High grad a merchant

03:28:37.909 --> 03:28:39.559
Marine who passed

03:28:39.559 --> 03:28:42.670
away several years ago who earned his Eagle Scout while

03:28:42.670 --> 03:28:43.879
doing an ecological

03:28:43.879 --> 03:28:46.639
study on that pond at Selwyn and so to hear disparaging

03:28:46.639 --> 03:28:47.799
words about the pond

03:28:47.799 --> 03:28:51.319
about five guys going out and digging with a bucket not a

03:28:51.319 --> 03:28:52.520
fan of I don't know

03:28:52.520 --> 03:28:55.399
what happens to the lake going forward but it's been a

03:28:55.399 --> 03:28:56.360
staple to a lot of

03:28:56.360 --> 03:29:00.379
lives a lot of trail runs and everything there so that's

03:29:00.379 --> 03:29:01.559
why I say I feel like I

03:29:01.559 --> 03:29:04.469
owe it to him to at least say that he worked really hard on

03:29:04.469 --> 03:29:05.479
that pond and it

03:29:05.479 --> 03:29:08.770
was a cool lake for me when I lived there so with all that

03:29:08.770 --> 03:29:10.479
I second this okay

03:29:10.479 --> 03:29:15.649
we have a first and a second for approval any further

03:29:15.649 --> 03:29:20.920
discussion I have a

03:29:20.920 --> 03:29:24.719
quick comment and we'll call for a vote my only offering of

03:29:24.719 --> 03:29:26.079
one to offer it up

03:29:26.079 --> 03:29:29.290
for continuous was just to give the parties an opportunity

03:29:29.290 --> 03:29:30.319
to work that out

03:29:30.319 --> 03:29:33.659
understand the backstory that that sound like is not going

03:29:33.659 --> 03:29:35.360
to be possible so we

03:29:35.360 --> 03:29:38.030
with that I don't have any problems supporting this motion

03:29:38.030 --> 03:29:38.879
and voting for it

03:29:38.879 --> 03:29:42.969
this evening and with that I will call for a vote on the

03:29:42.969 --> 03:29:43.520
board

03:29:56.120 --> 03:30:03.729
the motion carries six to zero for approval that will move

03:30:03.729 --> 03:30:05.559
us to our item

03:30:05.559 --> 03:30:11.930
B and I will open the public hearing for z 18 - 0 0 0 1 a

03:30:11.930 --> 03:30:13.959
and I will call on Haley

03:30:13.959 --> 03:30:16.840
for presentation

03:30:26.120 --> 03:30:36.120
all right good evening this is case z 18 1 for the razor

03:30:36.120 --> 03:30:36.879
ranch marketplace

03:30:36.879 --> 03:30:40.819
residential development a little bit of overview the

03:30:40.819 --> 03:30:42.559
property is part of the

03:30:42.559 --> 03:30:45.750
larger 410 acre razor ranch overlay that's shown outlined

03:30:45.750 --> 03:30:46.559
in black on the

03:30:46.559 --> 03:30:50.680
map the overlay has been in place since approximately 2007

03:30:50.680 --> 03:30:52.520
this 40 acres on the

03:30:52.520 --> 03:30:56.819
north side has always had the split zoning in place that

03:30:56.819 --> 03:30:58.239
would call it to be

03:30:58.239 --> 03:31:01.239
residential at some point the request before you tonight is

03:31:01.239 --> 03:31:01.879
to take that

03:31:01.879 --> 03:31:04.969
necessary next step of developing and approving standards

03:31:04.969 --> 03:31:05.920
for that development

03:31:05.920 --> 03:31:10.940
to occur within that 40 acres just to look at razor ranch

03:31:10.940 --> 03:31:12.520
in a little bit of a

03:31:12.520 --> 03:31:16.149
high-level overview two major areas north of 380 is the

03:31:16.149 --> 03:31:16.700
marketplace

03:31:16.700 --> 03:31:20.159
development and on the south side is the south campus where

03:31:20.159 --> 03:31:21.280
the town center and

03:31:21.280 --> 03:31:25.190
conventions that are located breaking the marketplace down

03:31:25.190 --> 03:31:26.280
a little bit further

03:31:26.280 --> 03:31:31.079
we have the rr2 area where a lot of the smaller residential

03:31:31.079 --> 03:31:32.520
earth's restaurant

03:31:32.520 --> 03:31:36.629
and retail components are in place we have the rr3 area

03:31:36.629 --> 03:31:37.780
where some of the

03:31:37.780 --> 03:31:41.479
bigger box stores are located those collectively have had

03:31:41.479 --> 03:31:42.040
development

03:31:42.040 --> 03:31:45.760
standards in place since about 2010 the remainder of the

03:31:45.760 --> 03:31:47.239
marketplace is this 40

03:31:47.239 --> 03:31:49.760
acres of residential development on the north side for

03:31:49.760 --> 03:31:50.639
which no designer

03:31:50.639 --> 03:31:55.350
development standards have yet been approved looking at

03:31:55.350 --> 03:31:57.000
this 40 acres it's

03:31:57.000 --> 03:32:00.040
split as I mentioned before approximately 16 acres on the

03:32:00.040 --> 03:32:00.520
north side

03:32:00.520 --> 03:32:03.190
are zoned in our three so that's three and a half dwelling

03:32:03.190 --> 03:32:03.959
units per acre

03:32:03.959 --> 03:32:08.059
roughly the 24 acres on the south side are zoned in our emu

03:32:08.059 --> 03:32:09.159
12 so that's our

03:32:09.159 --> 03:32:11.559
neighborhood residential mixed-use district allowing up to

03:32:11.559 --> 03:32:13.920
12 units an acre

03:32:13.920 --> 03:32:19.059
so looking at what has been proposed tonight there were two

03:32:19.059 --> 03:32:20.399
exhibits included

03:32:20.399 --> 03:32:23.000
with the development standards that were provided to you

03:32:23.000 --> 03:32:24.120
the first of those kind

03:32:24.120 --> 03:32:27.329
of shows what what the zoning is and where those would be

03:32:27.329 --> 03:32:28.239
in place on the

03:32:28.239 --> 03:32:32.520
property within the portion zoned in our three as well as

03:32:32.520 --> 03:32:33.680
within the gray area

03:32:33.680 --> 03:32:37.569
that shaded on the map single-family dwellings are proposed

03:32:37.569 --> 03:32:39.120
within the NRM

03:32:39.120 --> 03:32:42.540
u12 district the proposed permitted uses would be

03:32:42.540 --> 03:32:44.079
traditional detached single

03:32:44.079 --> 03:32:48.250
family attached single-family or town homes and a concept

03:32:48.250 --> 03:32:48.840
that Razor has

03:32:48.840 --> 03:32:51.260
adopted called big houses which is essentially a multif

03:32:51.260 --> 03:32:52.159
amily product that

03:32:52.159 --> 03:32:55.590
would look like a large house from the outside other uses

03:32:55.590 --> 03:32:56.639
that would be

03:32:56.639 --> 03:32:59.459
proposed that could occur anywhere within the development

03:32:59.459 --> 03:33:00.000
would be an

03:33:00.000 --> 03:33:03.159
amenity center for the residents and accessory structures

03:33:03.159 --> 03:33:04.159
for the residents

03:33:04.159 --> 03:33:09.700
such as garages or storage buildings exhibit C4 which was

03:33:09.700 --> 03:33:11.040
the the bulk of the

03:33:11.040 --> 03:33:14.000
document provided to you is the specific site design

03:33:14.000 --> 03:33:15.159
standards for this

03:33:15.159 --> 03:33:18.520
development so it outlines site design architecture landsca

03:33:18.520 --> 03:33:19.639
ping parking other

03:33:19.639 --> 03:33:22.790
guidelines such as fencing for the entire development just

03:33:22.790 --> 03:33:23.680
to hit a few of

03:33:23.680 --> 03:33:28.170
the highlights they are proposing a more compact urban walk

03:33:28.170 --> 03:33:29.000
able design on the

03:33:29.000 --> 03:33:32.090
south side so you notice some proposed reduced setbacks for

03:33:32.090 --> 03:33:33.120
the town homes that

03:33:33.120 --> 03:33:36.959
would be in the southern portion of the property shown on

03:33:36.959 --> 03:33:38.879
the map the north side

03:33:38.879 --> 03:33:41.319
as I mentioned we detached single-family there is an amen

03:33:41.319 --> 03:33:42.600
ity center proposed on

03:33:42.600 --> 03:33:47.159
along Bonnie Bray and then in the updated version of this

03:33:47.159 --> 03:33:48.479
appendix that was

03:33:48.479 --> 03:33:51.360
provided to you tonight they did provide some more details

03:33:51.360 --> 03:33:52.040
on where the proposed

03:33:52.040 --> 03:33:54.750
green space within the development would be which is the

03:33:54.750 --> 03:33:55.840
hatched area kind of in

03:33:55.840 --> 03:33:59.549
the middle some of the other key features that I wanted to

03:33:59.549 --> 03:34:00.079
point out were

03:34:00.079 --> 03:34:02.930
the amount of architectural diversity required within these

03:34:02.930 --> 03:34:03.680
standards there's

03:34:03.680 --> 03:34:06.170
a lot of call for changes in building materials changes in

03:34:06.170 --> 03:34:07.000
facades throughout

03:34:07.000 --> 03:34:09.540
the development to ensure a high quality visually

03:34:09.540 --> 03:34:11.840
interesting product there is an

03:34:11.840 --> 03:34:15.559
80% minimum masonry requirement proposed and they are in

03:34:15.559 --> 03:34:16.639
keeping with the

03:34:16.639 --> 03:34:20.649
building materials and color palette of the rest of razor

03:34:20.649 --> 03:34:22.639
ranch just to back out

03:34:22.639 --> 03:34:25.149
a little bit and look at what this area is intended for by

03:34:25.149 --> 03:34:26.120
our future land use

03:34:26.120 --> 03:34:29.290
plan it is called out as moderate residential so that's

03:34:29.290 --> 03:34:30.120
kind of our

03:34:30.120 --> 03:34:33.329
transitional zone it proposes between 4 and 12 units per

03:34:33.329 --> 03:34:34.399
acre on average with a

03:34:34.399 --> 03:34:37.540
mixture of housing types that is you know really critical

03:34:37.540 --> 03:34:38.520
for areas such as

03:34:38.520 --> 03:34:40.850
this where you're transitioning between existing single-

03:34:40.850 --> 03:34:41.760
family and commercial

03:34:41.760 --> 03:34:46.770
development as to some of staff's other considerations we

03:34:46.770 --> 03:34:48.399
found that the overall

03:34:48.399 --> 03:34:51.079
design that they're proposing for this area is consistent

03:34:51.079 --> 03:34:52.000
with the zoning and

03:34:52.000 --> 03:34:55.760
consistent with the rest of razor ranch we found that the

03:34:55.760 --> 03:34:57.079
standards they're

03:34:57.079 --> 03:35:00.479
proposing for the single-family products are overall much

03:35:00.479 --> 03:35:01.879
stricter and provide a

03:35:01.879 --> 03:35:04.940
lot more clarity in the type of design that's intended here

03:35:04.940 --> 03:35:05.879
than the citywide

03:35:05.879 --> 03:35:10.219
single-family standards to the overall density and product

03:35:10.219 --> 03:35:10.719
that they're

03:35:10.719 --> 03:35:13.659
proposing conforms with our future land use designation for

03:35:13.659 --> 03:35:14.600
the area and it does

03:35:14.600 --> 03:35:17.569
provide that logical transition between the intense

03:35:17.569 --> 03:35:19.079
commercial use south of here

03:35:19.079 --> 03:35:21.399
at the marketplace and those established single-family

03:35:21.399 --> 03:35:24.040
neighborhoods to the north

03:35:24.040 --> 03:35:27.670
notices were sent about the request we received no formal

03:35:27.670 --> 03:35:28.639
statements for or

03:35:28.639 --> 03:35:33.360
against this proposal and staff is recommending approval of

03:35:33.360 --> 03:35:34.360
the request

03:35:34.360 --> 03:35:36.729
because we did find it compatible with the surrounding

03:35:36.729 --> 03:35:37.520
development and

03:35:37.520 --> 03:35:40.149
consistent with the goals and objectives of our Denton plan

03:35:40.149 --> 03:35:41.520
2030 and with that I

03:35:41.520 --> 03:35:50.799
could stand for any questions any questions for Haley thank

03:35:50.799 --> 03:35:51.680
you and I

03:35:51.680 --> 03:35:55.100
believe the applicant is here if you all had any questions

03:35:55.100 --> 03:35:57.760
this is a public

03:35:57.760 --> 03:36:01.739
hearing I do have two cards to speak on this item first

03:36:01.739 --> 03:36:03.639
card I have is Greg

03:36:03.639 --> 03:36:11.049
Edwards at 1621 Amanda court in support and believe you'll

03:36:11.049 --> 03:36:13.840
be the applicant

03:36:16.799 --> 03:36:20.889
my name is Greg Edwards I'm a civil engineer our firm is

03:36:20.889 --> 03:36:21.760
Greg Edwards

03:36:21.760 --> 03:36:27.059
engineering services we're located 1621 Amanda court pond

03:36:27.059 --> 03:36:29.040
or Texas we're working

03:36:29.040 --> 03:36:41.920
with KB partners to try to facilitate you know the civil

03:36:41.920 --> 03:36:43.280
aspect of this once

03:36:43.280 --> 03:36:47.180
once it goes on we're working on preliminary plats and

03:36:47.180 --> 03:36:48.200
those kind of

03:36:48.200 --> 03:36:50.959
things right now first step is to get through the

03:36:50.959 --> 03:36:55.200
development standards Charles

03:36:55.200 --> 03:37:00.149
Harjes architects have been working on that and we really

03:37:00.149 --> 03:37:01.200
appreciate their work

03:37:01.200 --> 03:37:06.149
on that and think that they're coming up with the standards

03:37:06.149 --> 03:37:07.879
that will indicate

03:37:07.879 --> 03:37:11.700
that this is going to be a quality development and our our

03:37:11.700 --> 03:37:12.600
clients are

03:37:12.600 --> 03:37:20.120
committed to the quality of this product and I think Haley

03:37:20.120 --> 03:37:21.879
indicated that there

03:37:21.879 --> 03:37:26.719
were some questions about the site plan we do have a

03:37:26.719 --> 03:37:29.000
preliminary site plan

03:37:30.399 --> 03:37:35.370
that's available to look at we're doing some things this is

03:37:35.370 --> 03:37:36.959
a very long and

03:37:36.959 --> 03:37:43.750
narrow site it's it's very challenging you know I really

03:37:43.750 --> 03:37:45.120
appreciate Daniel and

03:37:45.120 --> 03:37:51.239
and and their their first approach to this and and what we

03:37:51.239 --> 03:37:53.520
've got right now is

03:37:53.520 --> 03:37:59.760
very similar to what they they had we're committed to the

03:37:59.760 --> 03:38:02.239
residential buffers even

03:38:02.239 --> 03:38:07.469
in the NRMU 12 area to keep the single-family up against

03:38:07.469 --> 03:38:08.079
the existing

03:38:08.079 --> 03:38:13.520
single-family development we're committed to the central

03:38:13.520 --> 03:38:14.719
open space we're

03:38:14.719 --> 03:38:19.569
committed to the amenity center basically the things that

03:38:19.569 --> 03:38:20.520
we've been

03:38:20.520 --> 03:38:27.920
doing and trying to get access from the back of the

03:38:27.920 --> 03:38:30.479
commercial central area to

03:38:30.479 --> 03:38:35.709
the west and tweaking some buildings and and we're still

03:38:35.709 --> 03:38:38.040
working with those and

03:38:38.040 --> 03:38:41.850
trying to come up with some we do have some challenging

03:38:41.850 --> 03:38:44.040
clients they want three

03:38:44.040 --> 03:38:48.000
more feet in the building pads and so we're working on

03:38:48.000 --> 03:38:49.559
those kind of things

03:38:49.559 --> 03:38:56.889
and trying to make all those things kind of line up but H

03:38:56.889 --> 03:38:59.879
aley do you want to

03:39:14.040 --> 03:39:31.799
This is the concept plan that kind of the progress print

03:39:31.799 --> 03:39:32.760
one of the things

03:39:32.760 --> 03:39:37.469
that we've done is kind of tweaked the building so that we

03:39:37.469 --> 03:39:38.879
could have some

03:39:38.879 --> 03:39:44.989
some building baths up against Bonnie Bray and then with

03:39:44.989 --> 03:39:47.200
the big house concept

03:39:47.200 --> 03:39:54.500
we've got the large facades along the entry corridor coming

03:39:54.500 --> 03:39:56.120
through which is

03:39:56.120 --> 03:40:01.399
basically the the concept that started out originally we've

03:40:01.399 --> 03:40:02.159
got the amenity

03:40:02.159 --> 03:40:08.270
center in the northeast corner we've got kind of a separate

03:40:08.270 --> 03:40:10.200
access to the the

03:40:10.200 --> 03:40:15.190
single-family area for the prime for most of it and then

03:40:15.190 --> 03:40:17.040
yeah challenge how

03:40:17.040 --> 03:40:20.649
do you get access to the other single-family and make that

03:40:20.649 --> 03:40:21.399
feel like a

03:40:21.399 --> 03:40:30.670
neighborhood and but I think that's that's kind of what we

03:40:30.670 --> 03:40:33.399
've done the the

03:40:33.399 --> 03:40:42.239
owners are have lived in these types of communities and

03:40:42.239 --> 03:40:43.840
they want it to be a

03:40:43.840 --> 03:40:52.360
high-scale area we've got some you know three four bedroom

03:40:52.360 --> 03:40:53.760
units on there so

03:40:53.760 --> 03:40:57.180
we're anticipating that there'll be maybe some extra cars

03:40:57.180 --> 03:40:58.079
so they want to

03:40:58.079 --> 03:41:05.010
put a lot of parking in this thing so that those residents

03:41:05.010 --> 03:41:08.760
will be able to have

03:41:10.760 --> 03:41:15.479
children there and part and this is kind of what we're

03:41:15.479 --> 03:41:18.559
coming up with and and

03:41:18.559 --> 03:41:22.319
still tweaking it and if you have any questions be glad to

03:41:22.319 --> 03:41:23.639
try to answer those

03:41:23.639 --> 03:41:31.559
and Daniel was here from Hodges architect to address any

03:41:31.559 --> 03:41:32.120
questions you

03:41:32.120 --> 03:41:35.120
have about the building materials and stuff do you have

03:41:35.120 --> 03:41:35.879
question Commissioner

03:41:35.879 --> 03:41:41.360
Beck thank you chair thank you mr. for your presentation

03:41:41.360 --> 03:41:42.239
here and if I'm

03:41:42.239 --> 03:41:45.280
looking at this conceptual plan right are we seeing

03:41:45.280 --> 03:41:47.639
essentially three means of

03:41:47.639 --> 03:41:51.649
ingress and egress into this area on the west off of Bonnie

03:41:51.649 --> 03:41:52.479
Bray and it looks

03:41:52.479 --> 03:41:57.069
like south maybe there's a road coming in yes but there's

03:41:57.069 --> 03:41:58.360
not a straight through

03:41:58.360 --> 03:42:02.489
road there's going to be some diversion going through the

03:42:02.489 --> 03:42:04.760
community yeah we feel

03:42:04.760 --> 03:42:08.180
the primary access is going to be on Bonnie Bray we have

03:42:08.180 --> 03:42:09.559
had discussions with

03:42:09.559 --> 03:42:15.280
the staff about on the very west potentially gating that

03:42:15.280 --> 03:42:16.799
area to limit the

03:42:16.799 --> 03:42:22.950
cut-through traffic that wants to go to the mall we do have

03:42:22.950 --> 03:42:24.799
an access out of the

03:42:24.799 --> 03:42:36.479
back of the commercial area so hopefully the residents will

03:42:36.479 --> 03:42:38.280
be able to get in and

03:42:38.280 --> 03:42:41.920
in and out and hopefully not have a whole lot of cut-

03:42:41.920 --> 03:42:43.159
through traffic to this

03:42:43.159 --> 03:42:47.250
area okay any and just out of curiosity what is this little

03:42:47.250 --> 03:42:48.479
looks like a walking

03:42:48.479 --> 03:42:54.889
path that comes down between the fifth and sixth house and

03:42:54.889 --> 03:42:56.559
kind of curves

03:42:56.559 --> 03:43:05.680
around and then goes into the basically there's a large

03:43:05.680 --> 03:43:07.440
drainage area that

03:43:07.440 --> 03:43:11.360
goes out of the existing single-family residential area to

03:43:11.360 --> 03:43:12.120
the north and

03:43:12.120 --> 03:43:16.389
basically we're carrying that in and that flow will have to

03:43:16.389 --> 03:43:17.600
go through a box

03:43:17.600 --> 03:43:24.420
culvert and into the region area the regional detention

03:43:24.420 --> 03:43:25.440
area for razor

03:43:25.440 --> 03:43:32.280
ranch that's south okay all right thank you

03:43:33.239 --> 03:43:37.520
Commissioner Sanchez yeah I was wondering about that big

03:43:37.520 --> 03:43:38.600
house concept is

03:43:38.600 --> 03:43:42.739
that pretty much like a one single house with multiple

03:43:42.739 --> 03:43:44.520
doors for apartments is

03:43:44.520 --> 03:43:47.829
that how it works I've seen something like that here in

03:43:47.829 --> 03:43:51.120
Denton on I think it's

03:43:51.120 --> 03:43:54.809
on Strickland and so I was just trying to figure out what

03:43:54.809 --> 03:43:56.360
that big house concept

03:43:56.360 --> 03:44:01.590
was can you do to find it for me but what it looks like the

03:44:01.590 --> 03:44:02.280
big you said

03:44:02.280 --> 03:44:07.840
there's a big house is it yeah you're building some big

03:44:07.840 --> 03:44:08.440
houses

03:44:08.440 --> 03:44:13.670
oh the big house concept is is basically we in a in a

03:44:13.670 --> 03:44:15.680
building we want to make it

03:44:15.680 --> 03:44:26.370
look like a single home rather than apartment kind of units

03:44:26.370 --> 03:44:27.399
or townhome units

03:44:27.399 --> 03:44:35.370
it's an idea of trying to get get that you know as a I

03:44:35.370 --> 03:44:39.000
think Daniel might be

03:44:39.000 --> 03:44:43.229
better at explaining that but the big house concept is is

03:44:43.229 --> 03:44:44.879
we've got you know a

03:44:44.879 --> 03:44:48.079
big big unit and you'd like to come on up I have your there

03:44:48.079 --> 03:44:48.959
's a next card and

03:44:48.959 --> 03:44:52.489
you may can you give us your name and address and chime in

03:44:52.489 --> 03:44:53.000
as well

03:44:53.000 --> 03:44:57.270
Daniel you work with Hodges architecture 136 42 Omega in

03:44:57.270 --> 03:44:59.719
Dallas the big house

03:44:59.719 --> 03:45:04.159
essentially we take individual townhomes and try to make

03:45:04.159 --> 03:45:05.520
them look like one house

03:45:05.520 --> 03:45:10.469
that's really all it is some of them some of the units here

03:45:10.469 --> 03:45:11.280
might look like

03:45:11.280 --> 03:45:14.700
individual townhomes some of them might be one big house

03:45:14.700 --> 03:45:16.000
that looks like it has

03:45:16.000 --> 03:45:23.799
a couple of entries to it thank you question I guess I was

03:45:23.799 --> 03:45:24.239
just trying to

03:45:24.239 --> 03:45:28.819
visualize it so I guess I have to see it I was just saying

03:45:28.819 --> 03:45:29.719
like I've seen

03:45:29.719 --> 03:45:32.270
something on Strickland and I thought me on here and then

03:45:32.270 --> 03:45:33.200
and I thought maybe

03:45:33.200 --> 03:45:35.409
that's what you were talking about but looks this it looks

03:45:35.409 --> 03:45:36.079
a little sounds a

03:45:36.079 --> 03:45:40.600
little bit different so when you say a multiple several

03:45:40.600 --> 03:45:43.200
townhomes put together

03:45:43.200 --> 03:45:47.159
okay I've never seen anything you can see any of these in

03:45:47.159 --> 03:45:48.079
these groups of

03:45:48.079 --> 03:45:51.799
groups of townhomes here you know they might though those

03:45:51.799 --> 03:45:53.200
might look like be

03:45:53.200 --> 03:45:56.569
distinguishable as individual units right or in a big house

03:45:56.569 --> 03:45:57.520
they might look

03:45:57.520 --> 03:46:07.290
like one house all right Commissioner Ellis thank you

03:46:07.290 --> 03:46:07.879
actually did you have a

03:46:07.879 --> 03:46:14.600
presentation because we can talk no I couple questions with

03:46:14.600 --> 03:46:15.559
regard to the big

03:46:15.559 --> 03:46:19.459
house concept is does each unit have its own entry yes from

03:46:19.459 --> 03:46:20.920
from the outside yes

03:46:20.920 --> 03:46:25.010
okay okay so I think I from the from the back side you'll

03:46:25.010 --> 03:46:26.399
be more recognizable

03:46:26.399 --> 03:46:29.909
because it'll be a garage for each unit from the front side

03:46:29.909 --> 03:46:30.879
you might the unit

03:46:30.879 --> 03:46:34.319
entries might be hidden so you might really not know

03:46:34.319 --> 03:46:37.540
with regard to the standards which look like pretty high-

03:46:37.540 --> 03:46:38.959
end standards I enjoyed

03:46:38.959 --> 03:46:42.059
reading through them did you consider it being a gated

03:46:42.059 --> 03:46:44.399
community altogether I

03:46:44.399 --> 03:46:48.079
don't think the development wants it to be gated

03:46:48.079 --> 03:46:51.399
necessarily but we are in the

03:46:51.399 --> 03:46:55.100
planning process you can see right here that we're kind of

03:46:55.100 --> 03:46:56.239
prepping it to be

03:46:56.239 --> 03:47:01.940
that way if indeed needs to go that direction I'll give you

03:47:01.940 --> 03:47:03.239
an access point

03:47:03.239 --> 03:47:07.690
to the back that would be usable for that neighborhood and

03:47:07.690 --> 03:47:08.760
keep it to the

03:47:08.760 --> 03:47:11.290
just that neighborhood yeah yeah we're just trying to you

03:47:11.290 --> 03:47:12.360
know with the fact

03:47:12.360 --> 03:47:14.649
that there's not just a straight drive-through on it right

03:47:14.649 --> 03:47:15.200
and if we do

03:47:15.200 --> 03:47:19.479
gate this backside it would just just trying to keep the

03:47:19.479 --> 03:47:21.600
speed demons sure

03:47:21.600 --> 03:47:26.079
flying through the place yeah it makes sense thank you

03:47:26.079 --> 03:47:30.079
Commissioner Smith nature you envision these all being rent

03:47:30.079 --> 03:47:31.159
als or selling a

03:47:31.159 --> 03:47:34.170
property my understanding is that this is all for sale

03:47:34.170 --> 03:47:35.959
property rough estimate

03:47:35.959 --> 03:47:39.879
of property value I can't speak to that right now is

03:47:39.879 --> 03:47:41.479
anybody can anybody here

03:47:41.479 --> 03:47:45.170
speak to the rough rough estimate with property value would

03:47:45.170 --> 03:47:46.200
be for the units

03:47:46.200 --> 03:47:48.889
the property value rough estimate what you think the

03:47:48.889 --> 03:47:50.120
property value for the

03:47:50.120 --> 03:47:54.459
units that you guys conceptually will build the zoning

03:47:54.459 --> 03:47:59.200
change is accepted I

03:47:59.200 --> 03:48:05.719
don't know they've been comparing the values with the town

03:48:05.719 --> 03:48:08.000
homes that are up

03:48:08.000 --> 03:48:18.110
on 77 north of the substation and and they're antisocial

03:48:18.110 --> 03:48:19.000
repeating these are

03:48:19.000 --> 03:48:25.770
going to be 20 30 percent maybe even more higher value than

03:48:25.770 --> 03:48:27.399
those looking

03:48:27.399 --> 03:48:32.159
for that that upper scale that's why we're putting in more

03:48:32.159 --> 03:48:34.840
parking and and

03:48:34.840 --> 03:48:39.090
the Humanity Center and the and the garages and that kind

03:48:39.090 --> 03:48:40.239
of stuff to cater

03:48:40.239 --> 03:48:47.159
to these people and hopefully we'll have with with some of

03:48:47.159 --> 03:48:49.000
the newer you know

03:48:49.000 --> 03:48:53.299
food delivery things hoping that the Humanity Center will

03:48:53.299 --> 03:48:54.040
be able to

03:48:54.040 --> 03:48:58.360
accommodate some of those things we do have

03:49:01.639 --> 03:49:10.270
part of their layout was some places for storage for cold

03:49:10.270 --> 03:49:14.600
storage for yeah Greg's

03:49:14.600 --> 03:49:19.909
talking about the like Amazon boxes automated delivery

03:49:19.909 --> 03:49:21.000
parcel boxes

03:49:21.000 --> 03:49:25.430
planning on two or three of those throughout the site okay

03:49:25.430 --> 03:49:28.600
thank you any

03:49:28.600 --> 03:49:34.870
other questions for the applicants thank you this is a

03:49:34.870 --> 03:49:36.959
public hearing so anyone

03:49:36.959 --> 03:49:39.850
who would like to speak on this item please come forward at

03:49:39.850 --> 03:49:40.719
this time and if

03:49:40.719 --> 03:49:43.350
you haven't filled out a card you can speak and then fill

03:49:43.350 --> 03:49:44.239
out a card before

03:49:44.239 --> 03:49:50.540
you go you can come and speak you you don't have to have a

03:49:50.540 --> 03:49:51.879
card I was trying

03:49:51.879 --> 03:49:54.329
to say you can come and give your name and address and

03:49:54.329 --> 03:49:55.399
speak and then please

03:49:55.399 --> 03:49:58.399
just fill out a card before you go so yes please come

03:49:58.399 --> 03:49:58.639
speaking my name is

03:49:58.639 --> 03:50:03.100
Stephanie Wilson my address is 2609 Thunderbird Drive in

03:50:03.100 --> 03:50:04.120
here in Denton

03:50:04.120 --> 03:50:07.930
right my backyard backs up to the property that they're

03:50:07.930 --> 03:50:09.440
discussing and I

03:50:09.440 --> 03:50:11.229
got to admit some of the things that they were talking

03:50:11.229 --> 03:50:12.159
about we couldn't hear

03:50:12.159 --> 03:50:15.579
so I apologize up front if I'm asked a question that's

03:50:15.579 --> 03:50:17.840
already been covered I

03:50:17.840 --> 03:50:21.450
could not hear what they were talking about in the way of

03:50:21.450 --> 03:50:23.079
entrances and exits

03:50:23.079 --> 03:50:28.520
out of that area but if anyone has ever been on Bonnie Bray

03:50:28.520 --> 03:50:30.040
the traffic is

03:50:30.040 --> 03:50:34.040
horrible and to add one more just one more exit of more

03:50:34.040 --> 03:50:35.079
people coming in and

03:50:35.079 --> 03:50:40.989
out along that area it just seems overwhelming quite

03:50:40.989 --> 03:50:42.840
honestly so if there

03:50:42.840 --> 03:50:47.790
is a second exit I just didn't hear where it was it was

03:50:47.790 --> 03:50:49.120
curious if there's

03:50:49.120 --> 03:50:53.549
any entrance into the neighborhood that I live in because

03:50:53.549 --> 03:50:54.639
we certainly wouldn't

03:50:54.639 --> 03:51:02.469
want to join add those roads to that area also I think I

03:51:02.469 --> 03:51:04.079
saw where there was

03:51:04.079 --> 03:51:09.680
the there was no easement between our fences and the new

03:51:09.680 --> 03:51:12.319
one that would go in

03:51:12.319 --> 03:51:16.750
so I obviously we have a question about whether there would

03:51:16.750 --> 03:51:18.079
be what type of

03:51:18.079 --> 03:51:23.360
fence there would be also we have all of our wiring is

03:51:23.360 --> 03:51:25.200
underground we've enjoyed

03:51:25.200 --> 03:51:28.629
not having all these electrical wires and utilities was

03:51:28.629 --> 03:51:29.879
hoping that that would

03:51:29.879 --> 03:51:33.229
follow suit into that same neighborhood because when we're

03:51:33.229 --> 03:51:34.479
in our backyard we've

03:51:34.479 --> 03:51:38.489
not had to look at wiring and would like that to continue

03:51:38.489 --> 03:51:41.719
going forward as well

03:51:44.600 --> 03:51:47.979
we do have to well I think that's it I think everything

03:51:47.979 --> 03:51:50.920
else got covered I'll

03:51:50.920 --> 03:51:53.940
ask staff just to come up and let's go over the entrances

03:51:53.940 --> 03:51:54.760
again so that

03:51:54.760 --> 03:51:59.190
everybody's aware of the ingress and egress points

03:51:59.190 --> 03:52:01.399
certainly not sure how

03:52:01.399 --> 03:52:04.780
well this shows up on the screen so I'll try to zoom in a

03:52:04.780 --> 03:52:07.319
little bit one primary

03:52:07.319 --> 03:52:11.500
entrance here on Bonnie Bray there is a proposed entrance

03:52:11.500 --> 03:52:12.360
here that I believe

03:52:12.360 --> 03:52:15.459
would would be gated to the marketplace development and

03:52:15.459 --> 03:52:16.760
then the other would be

03:52:16.760 --> 03:52:20.139
a continuation I can't recall the name of the street off

03:52:20.139 --> 03:52:21.000
the top of my head

03:52:21.000 --> 03:52:25.719
Augusta Augusta yeah and and as they mentioned we're still

03:52:25.719 --> 03:52:26.600
in discussions as

03:52:26.600 --> 03:52:28.719
to rather you know if these are private streets there may

03:52:28.719 --> 03:52:29.520
be a possibility to

03:52:29.520 --> 03:52:32.729
gate the entire community if they're public streets we

03:52:32.729 --> 03:52:33.600
wouldn't be able to

03:52:33.600 --> 03:52:37.360
have this point gated I suspect so this for clarification

03:52:37.360 --> 03:52:38.319
there is no

03:52:38.319 --> 03:52:42.270
connectivity to the north out of this new proposed subdiv

03:52:42.270 --> 03:52:43.319
ision to these

03:52:43.319 --> 03:52:46.750
residential existing subdivisions to the north of this

03:52:46.750 --> 03:52:48.000
piece no what what may

03:52:48.000 --> 03:52:52.520
have looked like a connection here is actually the drainage

03:52:52.520 --> 03:52:52.920
flow yeah so no

03:52:52.920 --> 03:52:57.180
connections to the north right does that answer your

03:52:57.180 --> 03:52:58.479
question okay

03:52:59.200 --> 03:53:02.299
just commit commission we were concerned about electrical -

03:53:02.299 --> 03:53:03.159
it's it'll be

03:53:03.159 --> 03:53:06.450
underground I assume we're doing I know DME allows for both

03:53:06.450 --> 03:53:06.879
I think their

03:53:06.879 --> 03:53:09.229
preference is underground so I suspect that would be

03:53:09.229 --> 03:53:12.840
continued here okay thank

03:53:12.840 --> 03:53:18.090
you any Commissioner Ellis Haley sorry thank you chair

03:53:18.090 --> 03:53:20.079
sorry she had a concern

03:53:20.079 --> 03:53:22.959
with fencing which is addressed in these standards from

03:53:22.959 --> 03:53:23.920
what I understand

03:53:23.920 --> 03:53:26.989
correct yes the standards do provide for various fencing

03:53:26.989 --> 03:53:27.680
materials I believe

03:53:27.680 --> 03:53:30.969
wood wrought iron and masonry were all possibilities with a

03:53:30.969 --> 03:53:32.040
minimum height of

03:53:32.040 --> 03:53:39.719
six feet okay great ma'am if you'd like to speak further

03:53:39.719 --> 03:53:40.719
please come to the mic

03:53:40.719 --> 03:53:45.149
and you're okay I don't understand the right iron there

03:53:45.149 --> 03:53:46.559
would be because that

03:53:46.559 --> 03:53:49.639
would not block and it's just one of the possible materials

03:53:49.639 --> 03:53:50.120
that they could

03:53:50.120 --> 03:53:54.120
incorporate it may be a mixture of materials

03:54:00.559 --> 03:54:03.639
that answer your questions ma'am thank you great thanks for

03:54:03.639 --> 03:54:04.159
coming to the mic

03:54:04.159 --> 03:54:07.129
so those that are watching online can hear your questions

03:54:07.129 --> 03:54:07.879
and comments

03:54:07.879 --> 03:54:11.579
Commissioner Ellis did you have anything else up they they

03:54:11.579 --> 03:54:12.680
sorry they have you on

03:54:12.680 --> 03:54:16.309
the board still thank you again this is a public hearing

03:54:16.309 --> 03:54:17.200
anyone who would like to

03:54:17.200 --> 03:54:21.629
speak on the item please come forward and you can fill out

03:54:21.629 --> 03:54:22.600
a card later

03:54:31.360 --> 03:54:37.430
hi I'm Jim Wilson I live at 2609 Thunderbird Drive and I'm

03:54:37.430 --> 03:54:38.319
not mistaken

03:54:38.319 --> 03:54:41.020
that's this area right in here correct that's Thunderbird

03:54:41.020 --> 03:54:42.159
here so our home is

03:54:42.159 --> 03:54:45.590
right in here yes all right so when you talked about the m

03:54:45.590 --> 03:54:46.920
asonry or the wrought

03:54:46.920 --> 03:54:49.959
iron as possibilities are you saying that you may construct

03:54:49.959 --> 03:54:51.280
a wall between us

03:54:51.280 --> 03:54:54.799
and and the houses that are going to be on that line right

03:54:54.799 --> 03:54:55.719
there is that what

03:54:55.719 --> 03:55:05.489
you're saying I haven't seen the detailed plans yet to know

03:55:05.489 --> 03:55:06.520
where perimeter

03:55:06.520 --> 03:55:09.940
fencing would be proposed but the code would or the

03:55:09.940 --> 03:55:11.479
proposed amendments would

03:55:11.479 --> 03:55:14.690
allow for a perimeter fence around any portion of the

03:55:14.690 --> 03:55:16.159
property that could be

03:55:16.159 --> 03:55:19.120
constructed of any of those materials but I haven't seen

03:55:19.120 --> 03:55:20.079
those plans as to

03:55:20.079 --> 03:55:23.799
where that fence would be proposed at this time okay

03:55:23.799 --> 03:55:25.200
another question I had is

03:55:25.200 --> 03:55:28.370
that you saw that there may be access to this street right

03:55:28.370 --> 03:55:29.440
over here which I

03:55:29.440 --> 03:55:32.629
believe is Greenway is that Greenway I believe it's green

03:55:32.629 --> 03:55:33.959
it's Augusta Augusta

03:55:33.959 --> 03:55:39.129
Augusta okay so the access to that street there from this

03:55:39.129 --> 03:55:40.239
subdivision that

03:55:40.239 --> 03:55:43.200
you're working on that aspect of it yes our Augusta Drive

03:55:43.200 --> 03:55:44.159
would be continued

03:55:44.159 --> 03:55:47.729
into the subdivision the reason I bring that up is because

03:55:47.729 --> 03:55:48.840
I know Bonnie braes

03:55:48.840 --> 03:55:51.719
an issue traffic wise if you've been there in the summer

03:55:51.719 --> 03:55:52.920
when they have salt

03:55:52.920 --> 03:55:55.569
hall tournaments track meets all kinds of things not to

03:55:55.569 --> 03:55:57.120
mention the church when it

03:55:57.120 --> 03:56:00.010
lets out and all the masses and the things that go on with

03:56:00.010 --> 03:56:00.920
that Bonnie brae

03:56:00.920 --> 03:56:07.389
is unbelievably difficult at times my big concern is the

03:56:07.389 --> 03:56:08.819
fact that there's no

03:56:08.819 --> 03:56:12.739
access from the service road to anything that is razor

03:56:12.739 --> 03:56:14.200
ranch on the north side of

03:56:14.200 --> 03:56:18.629
380 absolutely no access there's a big sign that says hey

03:56:18.629 --> 03:56:20.159
guess we got Academy

03:56:20.159 --> 03:56:24.510
there's Sam's there's Walmart so people cross 380 going

03:56:24.510 --> 03:56:25.440
north and stay on the

03:56:25.440 --> 03:56:28.649
service road and go oh my there's nothing here so I can't

03:56:28.649 --> 03:56:29.879
get in there I'm

03:56:29.879 --> 03:56:33.170
going to go to the first Street I can which is in this case

03:56:33.170 --> 03:56:34.319
Thunderbird that's

03:56:34.319 --> 03:56:38.110
our Street we have an inordinate amount of traffic on that

03:56:38.110 --> 03:56:39.959
street already just

03:56:39.959 --> 03:56:43.590
because there's no access from the service road this

03:56:43.590 --> 03:56:44.680
development here I

03:56:44.680 --> 03:56:48.690
think just to avoid the traffic on University and Bonnie

03:56:48.690 --> 03:56:49.600
Brae will be

03:56:49.600 --> 03:56:53.229
utilizing our Street in order to get around to get into

03:56:53.229 --> 03:56:54.520
their subdivision

03:56:54.520 --> 03:56:58.959
that's a lot of houses that's a lot of cars that's a lot of

03:56:58.959 --> 03:57:00.159
traffic in there so

03:57:00.159 --> 03:57:03.319
that's that's our big concern the neighbors that are here

03:57:03.319 --> 03:57:04.159
with me right now

03:57:04.159 --> 03:57:07.299
we all live in that section of Thunderbird right in this

03:57:07.299 --> 03:57:08.000
area right here

03:57:08.000 --> 03:57:11.520
and we see this almost daily as much traffic as there is it

03:57:11.520 --> 03:57:12.440
comes through

03:57:12.440 --> 03:57:16.389
that area so needless to say we're obviously opposed to

03:57:16.389 --> 03:57:18.239
this but we just

03:57:18.239 --> 03:57:21.409
want to see some relief of the traffic situation that's

03:57:21.409 --> 03:57:22.440
happening in our

03:57:22.440 --> 03:57:24.479
particular established neighborhood that's been there

03:57:24.479 --> 03:57:25.600
forever and ever and

03:57:25.600 --> 03:57:28.559
and I don't understand why the northwest side of Denton all

03:57:28.559 --> 03:57:29.159
of a sudden has

03:57:29.159 --> 03:57:32.780
become such a burgeoning place of commerce and development

03:57:32.780 --> 03:57:34.920
but oh my 15

03:57:34.920 --> 03:57:37.270
years ago it was and we were like out there in the country

03:57:37.270 --> 03:57:38.079
by ourselves and

03:57:38.079 --> 03:57:41.290
now boom here we are but anyway so those are our concerns

03:57:41.290 --> 03:57:42.360
is mainly the traffic

03:57:42.360 --> 03:57:46.129
and and just to make sure that something is done to relieve

03:57:46.129 --> 03:57:46.920
some of the traffic

03:57:46.920 --> 03:57:49.319
it's going to be created by all this to be honest with you

03:57:49.319 --> 03:57:51.239
thank you I have a

03:57:51.239 --> 03:57:54.319
question for you sir mr. Wilson sorry I didn't catch you

03:57:54.319 --> 03:57:54.639
sooner

03:57:54.639 --> 03:57:58.920
problem does commissioner Rizzo thank you chair actually I

03:57:58.920 --> 03:57:59.399
don't have a

03:57:59.399 --> 03:58:02.280
question but I wanted to see we can get a good response for

03:58:02.280 --> 03:58:03.200
you from staff so I

03:58:03.200 --> 03:58:07.079
appreciate you coming up mr. Wilson first I think if if and

03:58:07.079 --> 03:58:07.639
when the

03:58:07.639 --> 03:58:10.819
property north of Cracker Barrel gets developed that would

03:58:10.819 --> 03:58:11.600
help out a little

03:58:11.600 --> 03:58:14.979
bit if there's no but that's off topic but the question I

03:58:14.979 --> 03:58:16.559
had for staff is could

03:58:16.559 --> 03:58:23.309
we have an update on the mobility of Bonnie Bray as was

03:58:23.309 --> 03:58:23.559
that me

03:58:23.559 --> 03:58:26.360
and Siri

03:58:26.719 --> 03:58:31.559
serious check in mobility specifically with that is one the

03:58:31.559 --> 03:58:32.239
status of Bonnie

03:58:32.239 --> 03:58:35.870
Bray but also would there be a traffic study to get a dec

03:58:35.870 --> 03:58:37.079
eleration lane into

03:58:37.079 --> 03:58:40.120
this development so hopefully if the congestion of turning

03:58:40.120 --> 03:58:40.959
in and out might

03:58:40.959 --> 03:58:48.729
not affect Bonnie Bray can you provide an update for us in

03:58:48.729 --> 03:59:01.159
terms of a traffic

03:59:01.159 --> 03:59:04.040
study I know there was one done for razor ranch several

03:59:04.040 --> 03:59:05.319
years ago for the

03:59:05.319 --> 03:59:08.290
entire development as part of this since the zoning was

03:59:08.290 --> 03:59:09.520
already in place there

03:59:09.520 --> 03:59:13.510
was no TIA done for this particular project to speak to a

03:59:13.510 --> 03:59:14.639
couple of your

03:59:14.639 --> 03:59:19.069
other questions though first this this is still part of

03:59:19.069 --> 03:59:20.000
razor ranch that I know

03:59:20.000 --> 03:59:22.260
they're they're working on development for but that will

03:59:22.260 --> 03:59:23.120
probably be several

03:59:23.120 --> 03:59:28.069
years away great this portion of Bonnie Bray is phase six

03:59:28.069 --> 03:59:29.799
of the overall Bonnie

03:59:29.799 --> 03:59:32.899
Bray expansion plan that started on the south side of the

03:59:32.899 --> 03:59:33.639
city and is moving

03:59:33.639 --> 03:59:38.590
north the last I heard it is in the early stages of design

03:59:38.590 --> 03:59:39.879
and it would be

03:59:39.879 --> 03:59:45.129
perhaps 2020 or 2021 before construction begins just due to

03:59:45.129 --> 03:59:46.239
funding and the fact

03:59:46.239 --> 03:59:48.719
that they're working north from the south side of the city

03:59:48.719 --> 03:59:50.239
okay but that that is

03:59:50.239 --> 03:59:54.239
in process and it is impending within the next few years

03:59:54.239 --> 03:59:55.280
for this to be

03:59:55.280 --> 04:00:00.229
widened perfect and what would qualify the development

04:00:00.229 --> 04:00:01.120
getting a deceleration

04:00:01.120 --> 04:00:05.729
lane to turn from how does that process work typically that

04:00:05.729 --> 04:00:06.479
would be something

04:00:06.479 --> 04:00:10.219
that comes out of a TIA just this and I'm not sure like I

04:00:10.219 --> 04:00:11.120
said without them

04:00:11.120 --> 04:00:13.860
doing a TIA for this rather that would be considered I

04:00:13.860 --> 04:00:15.879
believe I'm correct in

04:00:15.879 --> 04:00:18.520
saying that there is talks of possibly a signal going in

04:00:18.520 --> 04:00:19.639
just south of there at

04:00:19.639 --> 04:00:23.250
the drive where Academy is where it'll be crossing over

04:00:23.250 --> 04:00:26.079
into the future HEB

04:00:26.079 --> 04:00:28.899
shopping center that's going in across the road here I

04:00:28.899 --> 04:00:29.959
believe I've heard

04:00:29.959 --> 04:00:33.479
talks of a possible signal there okay perfect so that may

04:00:33.479 --> 04:00:34.280
alleviate some of

04:00:34.280 --> 04:00:41.610
the traffic concerns yeah hopefully thank you okay sure I'm

04:00:41.610 --> 04:00:42.120
just gonna ask

04:00:42.120 --> 04:00:44.809
one more question maybe too early in the stages right now

04:00:44.809 --> 04:00:45.440
but but this

04:00:45.440 --> 04:00:49.290
development would there be an HOA involved in this do you

04:00:49.290 --> 04:00:51.680
know okay an

04:00:51.680 --> 04:00:54.530
enforceable HOA that would actually take care of the

04:00:54.530 --> 04:00:56.719
property okay all right

04:00:56.719 --> 04:01:01.149
thank you thank you sir again this is a public hearing

04:01:01.149 --> 04:01:02.440
anyone who'd like to

04:01:02.440 --> 04:01:09.069
speak on this item please come forward at this time anybody

04:01:09.069 --> 04:01:18.799
else I waited

04:01:21.639 --> 04:01:26.590
I'm Norma Ferenbacher and I live at 2705 Thunderbird so

04:01:26.590 --> 04:01:29.399
right along the place for

04:01:29.399 --> 04:01:33.030
those big homes are gonna be what our big houses I was I

04:01:33.030 --> 04:01:33.959
was with the

04:01:33.959 --> 04:01:37.770
understanding that there was going to be one acre lots and

04:01:37.770 --> 04:01:39.280
three homes per one

04:01:39.280 --> 04:01:43.360
acre lots I don't know where I got that at but what our big

04:01:43.360 --> 04:01:44.000
homes are those

04:01:44.000 --> 04:01:50.829
apartment buildings or what I don't are they townhouses I'd

04:01:50.829 --> 04:01:51.879
call on the

04:01:51.879 --> 04:01:57.360
applicant to come up and address your question specifically

04:01:57.360 --> 04:01:59.040
this way if you

04:01:59.040 --> 04:02:02.649
don't mind get to the mic so those that are watching online

04:02:02.649 --> 04:02:03.479
can hear you

04:02:03.479 --> 04:02:11.059
how do we get back to the one of the exhibits that shows

04:02:11.059 --> 04:02:15.159
the different zoning so

04:02:15.159 --> 04:02:18.959
this this whole zone right here would all be single-family

04:02:18.959 --> 04:02:21.559
individual lots

04:02:21.559 --> 04:02:37.219
where's the thing that shows the big homes where someone

04:02:37.219 --> 04:02:37.399
said that these are

04:02:37.399 --> 04:02:41.829
these those what are those this is just individual

04:02:41.829 --> 04:02:43.319
individual single-family

04:02:43.319 --> 04:02:47.639
detached homes where did where did we get the word big

04:02:47.639 --> 04:02:48.799
houses ma'am if you

04:02:48.799 --> 04:02:52.239
don't mind can you can you come up where did we get the

04:02:52.239 --> 04:02:54.399
word big houses big homes

04:02:54.399 --> 04:02:57.049
where the parking was going to be in the back and there

04:02:57.049 --> 04:02:58.680
would be one entrance to

04:02:58.680 --> 04:03:00.920
the front I was under the understanding that those were

04:03:00.920 --> 04:03:02.879
multiple multiple family

04:03:02.879 --> 04:03:06.399
homes not big houses for individual families those are

04:03:06.399 --> 04:03:07.280
single-family homes

04:03:07.280 --> 04:03:11.370
is that what you're saying okay okay that's all I wanted to

04:03:11.370 --> 04:03:11.879
know thank you

04:03:11.879 --> 04:03:14.200
sir

04:03:17.399 --> 04:03:21.500
this is a public hearing and I'll do a final call anyone

04:03:21.500 --> 04:03:22.440
else who would like to

04:03:22.440 --> 04:03:27.030
speak on this item please come forward at this time anybody

04:03:27.030 --> 04:03:29.079
else with that I

04:03:29.079 --> 04:03:32.270
will close the public hearing and open the floor for

04:03:32.270 --> 04:03:33.680
discussion or motion

04:03:33.680 --> 04:03:40.680
Commissioner Smith motion to approve Z 18001 a the the the

04:03:40.680 --> 04:03:41.440
amendment to the

04:03:41.440 --> 04:03:43.979
razor ranch overlay district as the staff is provided with

04:03:43.979 --> 04:03:44.760
recommendation

04:03:44.760 --> 04:03:49.319
okay Commissioner back second all that okay we have a first

04:03:49.319 --> 04:03:50.600
and a second for

04:03:50.600 --> 04:03:54.920
approval first half recommendations Commissioner Ellis

04:03:54.920 --> 04:03:56.040
thank you chair just a

04:03:56.040 --> 04:03:59.079
quick comment thank you all for coming to speak I mean just

04:03:59.079 --> 04:04:00.040
so you understand

04:04:00.040 --> 04:04:02.920
what we're voting on it's an amendment to the razor ranch

04:04:02.920 --> 04:04:04.079
overlay district to

04:04:04.079 --> 04:04:07.959
establish these residential concepts the zoning is already

04:04:07.959 --> 04:04:09.280
in place for this for

04:04:09.280 --> 04:04:12.190
the single-family for the multifamily on the bottom so this

04:04:12.190 --> 04:04:13.520
was to be able to get

04:04:13.520 --> 04:04:17.260
their project going to establish the the criteria for for

04:04:17.260 --> 04:04:18.760
the building standards

04:04:18.760 --> 04:04:21.530
for them then they can move forward to a real site plan

04:04:21.530 --> 04:04:22.719
which will come back

04:04:22.719 --> 04:04:26.959
before us so stay engaged and and and watch for those

04:04:26.959 --> 04:04:27.680
because you'll be able

04:04:27.680 --> 04:04:31.280
to see the actual site plan instead of a concept at that

04:04:31.280 --> 04:04:33.319
point going forward

04:04:33.319 --> 04:04:36.530
Commissioner Smith thank you chair I should have asked here

04:04:36.530 --> 04:04:37.200
in it that I

04:04:37.200 --> 04:04:39.159
don't think there was a neighborhood meeting that was

04:04:39.159 --> 04:04:40.360
conducted this is a

04:04:40.360 --> 04:04:42.129
question for the applicant you don't have to respond I

04:04:42.129 --> 04:04:42.760
would just make a

04:04:42.760 --> 04:04:45.620
recommendation that after this is done as you guys move

04:04:45.620 --> 04:04:46.920
forward in your project

04:04:46.920 --> 04:04:49.739
to possibly discuss having a neighborhood meeting and

04:04:49.739 --> 04:04:50.440
trying to get

04:04:50.440 --> 04:04:53.819
answer a couple more questions there's not these this many

04:04:53.819 --> 04:04:54.399
unknowns it's a

04:04:54.399 --> 04:04:59.760
recommendation thank you good recommendation we do have a

04:04:59.760 --> 04:05:00.479
first and a

04:05:00.479 --> 04:05:04.399
second for approval any further discussion or comments we

04:05:04.399 --> 04:05:05.000
call for a

04:05:05.000 --> 04:05:12.659
vote on the board seeing none I'll call for a vote on board

04:05:12.659 --> 04:05:18.399
motion carries six

04:05:18.399 --> 04:05:29.659
to zero thank you all for coming out tonight that will move

04:05:29.659 --> 04:05:32.280
us to item C on

04:05:32.280 --> 04:05:36.549
our public hearings this evening this item has been

04:05:36.549 --> 04:05:38.959
postponed indefinitely so

04:05:38.959 --> 04:05:43.000
we will be taking no action on this item

04:05:47.200 --> 04:05:51.389
that will move us to item D at this time I'm going to open

04:05:51.389 --> 04:05:53.639
the public hearing for

04:05:53.639 --> 04:05:59.280
Z 17 - 0 0 3 2 and the chair would entertain a motion

04:05:59.280 --> 04:06:00.120
Commissioner Rozelle

04:06:00.120 --> 04:06:03.750
I move to continue this item to a date certain of March 7

04:06:03.750 --> 04:06:04.639
2018

04:06:04.639 --> 04:06:09.200
Commissioner Smith I second that motion okay I'm a motion

04:06:09.200 --> 04:06:10.520
to continue to date

04:06:10.520 --> 04:06:16.969
certain March the 7th 2018 any further discussion seeing

04:06:16.969 --> 04:06:18.280
none I'll call for a

04:06:18.280 --> 04:06:23.000
vote on the board and this item will be left open publicly

04:06:23.000 --> 04:06:28.120
that motion to

04:06:28.120 --> 04:06:32.280
continue passes 6 to 0 and the item is still open we'll

04:06:32.280 --> 04:06:35.280
move us to item E we'll

04:06:35.280 --> 04:06:41.430
open the public hearing for fr 17 - 0 0 2 6 Commissioner

04:06:41.430 --> 04:06:42.760
Smith motion to postpone

04:06:42.760 --> 04:06:46.389
the item till date certain of March 21st 2018 okay

04:06:46.389 --> 04:06:48.200
Commissioner Ellis second okay

04:06:48.200 --> 04:06:51.620
we have a first and a second to continue the item dates

04:06:51.620 --> 04:06:54.760
certain March 21st 2018 we

04:06:54.760 --> 04:06:59.260
will leave the public hearing open and we'll call for a

04:06:59.260 --> 04:07:00.719
vote on the board

04:07:04.959 --> 04:07:10.729
motion carries 6 to 0 we'll move us to our item F and

04:07:10.729 --> 04:07:12.000
before I open the public

04:07:12.000 --> 04:07:16.090
hearing does anybody need to take a break are we okay to

04:07:16.090 --> 04:07:18.239
continue take a

04:07:18.239 --> 04:07:21.239
break or continue

04:07:23.479 --> 04:07:27.329
okay we'll slip out the side if you need it at this time I

04:07:27.329 --> 04:07:29.159
'm going to open the

04:07:29.159 --> 04:07:35.030
public hearing for DCA 17 - 0 0 1 1 and we'll call on

04:07:35.030 --> 04:07:36.280
Deborah Viera for

04:07:36.280 --> 04:07:38.799
presentation

04:07:53.479 --> 04:08:09.719
good evening Commission this is a continuance from the

04:08:09.719 --> 04:08:11.120
public hearing

04:08:11.120 --> 04:08:16.250
started on February 7 for the proposed revisions to sub

04:08:16.250 --> 04:08:19.360
chapter 17 staff have

04:08:19.360 --> 04:08:21.739
gone through the major changes during the last public

04:08:21.739 --> 04:08:22.799
hearing I don't know if

04:08:22.799 --> 04:08:26.500
you want me to go over those again last time that we met we

04:08:26.500 --> 04:08:27.920
continue we continue

04:08:27.920 --> 04:08:32.959
the meeting to allow for public input to to be answered

04:08:32.959 --> 04:08:35.200
those documents have been

04:08:35.200 --> 04:08:39.850
provided to you as a part of our recommendation we are rev

04:08:39.850 --> 04:08:41.479
ising 20 items

04:08:41.479 --> 04:08:46.520
listed on the public comment to address public concern and

04:08:46.520 --> 04:08:48.200
to add clarity to the

04:08:48.200 --> 04:08:53.590
document staff is available to answer any questions that

04:08:53.590 --> 04:08:55.280
you may have

04:09:03.040 --> 04:09:04.010
I think we may not have been prepared so for your

04:09:04.010 --> 04:09:08.079
presentations any questions

04:09:08.079 --> 04:09:17.350
none Commissioner Roselle at the risk of throwing a kink in

04:09:17.350 --> 04:09:20.000
this I was curious

04:09:20.000 --> 04:09:27.299
about the idea of an alternative ESA being specific to the

04:09:27.299 --> 04:09:29.520
actual protected

04:09:29.520 --> 04:09:32.809
habitat because it seems like in my estimation like an up

04:09:32.809 --> 04:09:34.399
land habitat might

04:09:34.399 --> 04:09:38.739
be easier to define a mitigation requirement versus a wet

04:09:38.739 --> 04:09:39.799
land habitat

04:09:39.799 --> 04:09:43.309
where there might be a multitude of things going on that

04:09:43.309 --> 04:09:44.440
you would want to

04:09:44.440 --> 04:09:47.620
mitigate for whether it's drainage or actual foliage or

04:09:47.620 --> 04:09:49.700
things like that the

04:09:49.700 --> 04:09:53.639
way the the codes written though all the alternative

04:09:53.639 --> 04:10:02.799
options are in 17.11 so

04:10:02.799 --> 04:10:05.969
maybe this is not even feasible but I just curious to know

04:10:05.969 --> 04:10:08.159
if it's possible to

04:10:08.159 --> 04:10:12.079
to try to find a compromise between chairs point of finding

04:10:12.079 --> 04:10:13.159
black and white

04:10:13.159 --> 04:10:16.989
in this process and Commissioner Ellis's point of an

04:10:16.989 --> 04:10:18.639
organic process if there's a

04:10:18.639 --> 04:10:24.469
way to compromise and find ways in which some essays are

04:10:24.469 --> 04:10:27.360
are more black and white

04:10:27.360 --> 04:10:30.610
in terms of mitigation trees for instance verse wetlands so

04:10:30.610 --> 04:10:31.280
I'd love to

04:10:31.280 --> 04:10:33.600
know your thoughts on trying to accomplish something like

04:10:33.600 --> 04:10:34.479
that if it is

04:10:34.479 --> 04:10:39.079
the Commission desire you can establish for upland habitat

04:10:39.079 --> 04:10:40.879
any specific criteria

04:10:40.879 --> 04:10:46.729
the things that we need to think about is we're going to

04:10:46.729 --> 04:10:48.719
mitigate let's say

04:10:48.719 --> 04:10:54.790
that we go a ratio for every stream remove how many trees

04:10:54.790 --> 04:10:55.680
are we going to

04:10:55.680 --> 04:10:59.479
do based on trees number of trees are we're going to do

04:10:59.479 --> 04:11:00.799
based on canopy are

04:11:00.799 --> 04:11:06.090
we're going to do based on DBH so just there are different

04:11:06.090 --> 04:11:09.399
ways to go by when

04:11:09.399 --> 04:11:12.690
we do an assessment of the upland habitat we look into the

04:11:12.690 --> 04:11:13.520
species that

04:11:13.520 --> 04:11:17.950
they're going making up that that tree stand and we also

04:11:17.950 --> 04:11:19.040
look into the

04:11:19.040 --> 04:11:22.559
understory it under certain is as important as the tree

04:11:22.559 --> 04:11:26.239
itself so staff

04:11:26.239 --> 04:11:30.250
would like to see some preferences to the protection of the

04:11:30.250 --> 04:11:31.639
understory and to

04:11:31.639 --> 04:11:35.799
the mitigation of the understory not only tree to tree

04:11:35.799 --> 04:11:37.559
ratio something like

04:11:37.559 --> 04:11:42.959
that so if that could be incorporated into your

04:11:42.959 --> 04:11:45.840
recommendation for a criteria

04:11:45.840 --> 04:11:54.049
for upland habitat that would be great I think it's helpful

04:11:54.049 --> 04:11:54.799
to kind of get

04:11:54.799 --> 04:11:57.879
guidance on that another question I have that's somewhat

04:11:57.879 --> 04:12:00.159
related is to kosher

04:12:00.159 --> 04:12:05.270
Sanchez's point about fragmentation is it my am I correct

04:12:05.270 --> 04:12:06.360
understanding that

04:12:06.360 --> 04:12:11.440
for an upland habitat if there's ten acres of contiguous

04:12:11.440 --> 04:12:14.639
the tree tree stand

04:12:14.639 --> 04:12:20.750
yes it's possible to separate that those ten acres for the

04:12:20.750 --> 04:12:21.399
development and

04:12:21.399 --> 04:12:25.719
actually separate that contiguous into two potential or

04:12:25.719 --> 04:12:27.360
multiple potential tree

04:12:27.360 --> 04:12:35.639
smaller tree stands that correct correct right now on okay

04:12:35.639 --> 04:12:40.200
17.9 a item one for

04:12:40.200 --> 04:12:44.659
example it talks about preservation of upland habitat

04:12:44.659 --> 04:12:46.139
continues to forested

04:12:46.139 --> 04:12:50.229
areas and adjacent properties on parcel is strongly

04:12:50.229 --> 04:12:52.280
encouraged so at this point

04:12:52.280 --> 04:12:56.370
it is a recommendation to keep them contiguous we would

04:12:56.370 --> 04:12:57.680
like to do that we

04:12:57.680 --> 04:13:02.639
prefer to see that if this is something that if the last

04:13:02.639 --> 04:13:03.479
sentence that is

04:13:03.479 --> 04:13:07.290
something that you want to modify and make it a requirement

04:13:07.290 --> 04:13:08.319
that is also an

04:13:08.319 --> 04:13:15.620
option for you I'm not necessarily in favor of that I'm

04:13:15.620 --> 04:13:17.280
more thinking about if

04:13:17.280 --> 04:13:20.659
you have ten acres and then it does get separated or

04:13:20.659 --> 04:13:22.959
chopped down what is the

04:13:22.959 --> 04:13:27.909
actual value of the upland habitat that's left because it

04:13:27.909 --> 04:13:28.920
seems to me and

04:13:28.920 --> 04:13:33.260
I'll defer to kosher Sanchez's expertise on this but if you

04:13:33.260 --> 04:13:33.520
have ten

04:13:33.520 --> 04:13:37.149
acres and you can take 50% of that potentially for

04:13:37.149 --> 04:13:38.399
residential so you have

04:13:38.399 --> 04:13:43.520
five acres of encouraged together but not be together is

04:13:43.520 --> 04:13:46.280
that five acres even

04:13:46.280 --> 04:13:50.629
I hate to say worth it but is there there's not an upland

04:13:50.629 --> 04:13:51.799
habitat anymore

04:13:51.799 --> 04:13:54.780
because it's less than ten acres so I'm curious about just

04:13:54.780 --> 04:13:55.719
the thought process

04:13:55.719 --> 04:14:01.079
of once you even invite an alternative ESA into the picture

04:14:01.079 --> 04:14:03.159
what environmental

04:14:03.159 --> 04:14:06.190
mentally sensitive areas is even left it seems like it

04:14:06.190 --> 04:14:07.239
deteriorate pretty

04:14:07.239 --> 04:14:11.489
quickly once you actually aggravate the beginning of it and

04:14:11.489 --> 04:14:12.239
I don't necessarily

04:14:12.239 --> 04:14:15.870
have any direction to go on that I'm just I'm concerned

04:14:15.870 --> 04:14:17.719
about the actual

04:14:17.719 --> 04:14:23.489
impact if we allow for the ESA's to be disturbed it seems

04:14:23.489 --> 04:14:23.920
like it'd be a

04:14:23.920 --> 04:14:27.530
cascading effect of damage to the understory and everything

04:14:27.530 --> 04:14:28.280
else when those

04:14:28.280 --> 04:14:33.280
when the concentration continues to shrink in such a way

04:14:33.280 --> 04:14:34.399
the smaller you

04:14:34.399 --> 04:14:40.479
make the tree stand the more stress you put on the habitat

04:14:40.479 --> 04:14:44.639
itself without getting

04:14:44.639 --> 04:14:51.110
into too much technicality here the more you the more edges

04:14:51.110 --> 04:14:52.479
you add to the

04:14:52.479 --> 04:14:57.879
habitat the more friction and changes you will have okay so

04:14:57.879 --> 04:14:59.440
definitely we would

04:14:59.440 --> 04:15:02.649
like to maintain the integrity of the upland habitat as

04:15:02.649 --> 04:15:04.319
much as possible and

04:15:04.319 --> 04:15:09.920
that's why the we strongly encourage to be contiguous

04:15:09.920 --> 04:15:11.200
because we don't want to

04:15:11.200 --> 04:15:17.399
keep adding edges to it the alternative ESA plan provide us

04:15:17.399 --> 04:15:18.360
at least an

04:15:18.360 --> 04:15:22.350
opportunity to have the type of discussion about where to

04:15:22.350 --> 04:15:23.159
leave that

04:15:23.159 --> 04:15:30.870
area so minimizing those edges were more interaction and

04:15:30.870 --> 04:15:34.040
more chances for pressure

04:15:34.040 --> 04:15:38.469
to the habitat could happen so the alternative ESA plan it

04:15:38.469 --> 04:15:39.040
is just an

04:15:39.040 --> 04:15:43.469
opportunity to have that kind of discussion that we don't

04:15:43.469 --> 04:15:44.120
have if you

04:15:44.120 --> 04:15:47.840
just follow the code I really appreciate that because you

04:15:47.840 --> 04:15:49.239
brought up a good point

04:15:49.239 --> 04:15:52.229
that I hope Christian Ellis I agree with you on her point

04:15:52.229 --> 04:15:55.479
just now in that the

04:15:55.479 --> 04:15:58.530
invitation to have a discussion where those trees are if we

04:15:58.530 --> 04:15:59.280
if we do have a

04:15:59.280 --> 04:16:01.950
black and white mitigation process I wonder if we even have

04:16:01.950 --> 04:16:02.879
that opportunity

04:16:02.879 --> 04:16:07.309
to encourage development in certain areas with the feedback

04:16:07.309 --> 04:16:08.159
of the property

04:16:08.159 --> 04:16:15.049
owner so that food for thought thank you Commissioner San

04:16:15.049 --> 04:16:17.760
chez oh that's all right

04:16:17.760 --> 04:16:24.000
yes for my question yes the question was okay just to

04:16:24.000 --> 04:16:25.559
follow up on Commissioner

04:16:25.559 --> 04:16:29.360
Roselle's question it does city determine where those areas

04:16:29.360 --> 04:16:29.879
are is it

04:16:29.879 --> 04:16:32.479
the property owner that just determines those at the end of

04:16:32.479 --> 04:16:33.559
the day it is that

04:16:33.559 --> 04:16:39.639
the property owner we we encourage we like to find reasons

04:16:39.639 --> 04:16:41.360
when somebody comes

04:16:41.360 --> 04:16:45.329
with a site plan we look into possible issues the other

04:16:45.329 --> 04:16:46.799
thing very important it

04:16:46.799 --> 04:16:50.430
is upland habitat could be used to meet tree coat

04:16:50.430 --> 04:16:52.520
requirements so the larger the

04:16:52.520 --> 04:16:59.329
trees the higher the price to replace through the tree coat

04:16:59.329 --> 04:17:00.479
so most of that

04:17:00.479 --> 04:17:05.479
that is also considered at the time you know it they also

04:17:05.479 --> 04:17:06.319
look into the

04:17:06.319 --> 04:17:11.639
financial component of it I always recommend to have a good

04:17:11.639 --> 04:17:12.959
mix of big

04:17:12.959 --> 04:17:17.430
trees but also younger trees because all big trees they're

04:17:17.430 --> 04:17:19.000
mature and eventually

04:17:19.000 --> 04:17:22.920
they die so even though we would place a special value to

04:17:22.920 --> 04:17:23.920
those trees how

04:17:23.920 --> 04:17:28.350
beautiful they are we also want to continue it is so during

04:17:28.350 --> 04:17:29.000
discussion with

04:17:29.000 --> 04:17:33.139
staff we always told the applicant look into providing a

04:17:33.139 --> 04:17:35.159
variety of sizes so

04:17:35.159 --> 04:17:42.819
your area would keep going longer so all those aspects are

04:17:42.819 --> 04:17:44.040
considered when we are

04:17:44.040 --> 04:17:48.350
reviewing alternative ESA plans and when we would discuss

04:17:48.350 --> 04:17:49.360
it with the applicant

04:17:49.360 --> 04:18:00.629
as well I have several comments number one I appreciate the

04:18:00.629 --> 04:18:01.840
time and effort

04:18:01.840 --> 04:18:06.409
that's gone through the the list of questions that have

04:18:06.409 --> 04:18:07.719
been posed and then

04:18:07.719 --> 04:18:12.479
the responses that have been given and the options have the

04:18:12.479 --> 04:18:14.639
responses to these

04:18:14.639 --> 04:18:17.799
questions have they been incorporated into the order and

04:18:17.799 --> 04:18:18.760
sure you need

04:18:18.760 --> 04:18:22.229
direction from us to do that if we want to take action on

04:18:22.229 --> 04:18:24.399
any of those staff has

04:18:24.399 --> 04:18:28.290
made has proposed to make some changes as listed on the

04:18:28.290 --> 04:18:28.840
response on their

04:18:28.840 --> 04:18:35.879
response column they are total 20 amendments total if you

04:18:35.879 --> 04:18:37.280
are okay with

04:18:37.280 --> 04:18:40.489
the language as proposed I would like to incorporate that

04:18:40.489 --> 04:18:44.440
into the motion so

04:18:44.440 --> 04:18:48.360
none of the comments at least at this time have come I'm a

04:18:48.360 --> 04:18:49.680
little somewhat

04:18:49.680 --> 04:18:52.559
confused I will make sure we're all on the same page the

04:18:52.559 --> 04:18:53.479
ordinance that we have

04:18:53.479 --> 04:18:57.000
to vote on tonight is the same one that was two weeks ago

04:18:57.000 --> 04:18:59.159
correct the comments

04:18:59.159 --> 04:19:06.020
that have been made by staff as the responses to the public

04:19:06.020 --> 04:19:07.559
input have not

04:19:07.559 --> 04:19:10.440
been brought into the ordinance of yet so the ordinance

04:19:10.440 --> 04:19:11.639
that we have to vote on

04:19:11.639 --> 04:19:14.989
if we've made no changes whatsoever as is the same one from

04:19:14.989 --> 04:19:16.120
two weeks ago so

04:19:16.120 --> 04:19:19.750
in order to add any of these change we have to make a

04:19:19.750 --> 04:19:21.159
motion to put those in

04:19:21.159 --> 04:19:24.840
correct and then any of the other things that we talked

04:19:24.840 --> 04:19:25.959
about in work session

04:19:25.959 --> 04:19:30.799
about defining terms or 50% or any of those things all that

04:19:30.799 --> 04:19:31.600
has to be

04:19:31.600 --> 04:19:36.530
incorporated into the ordinance as well kind of as and then

04:19:36.530 --> 04:19:38.079
as y'all to take it

04:19:38.079 --> 04:19:43.149
on and move forward versus having giving direction to have

04:19:43.149 --> 04:19:44.200
that and come back

04:19:44.200 --> 04:19:46.680
know this is the clean ordinance all the changes are made

04:19:46.680 --> 04:19:47.559
it's ready for you guys

04:19:47.559 --> 04:19:52.920
take it to city council correct so either or you can do it

04:19:52.920 --> 04:19:53.760
what we have

04:19:53.760 --> 04:19:56.579
discussed during the work session if I'm not mistaken you

04:19:56.579 --> 04:19:57.360
're okay with the

04:19:57.360 --> 04:20:00.920
definition of wetlands and you are okay with the definition

04:20:00.920 --> 04:20:02.559
of open habitat so

04:20:02.559 --> 04:20:06.879
those would be also incorporated plus the 50% to clarify

04:20:06.879 --> 04:20:08.000
what significant

04:20:08.000 --> 04:20:15.479
native water related habitat is so we will add those okay

04:20:15.479 --> 04:20:16.719
the other question

04:20:16.719 --> 04:20:21.290
that I know I ask in work session and I know I had posed it

04:20:21.290 --> 04:20:23.639
earlier what is the

04:20:23.639 --> 04:20:27.379
suggestion that you that you all have if we're trying to

04:20:27.379 --> 04:20:28.680
move this forward

04:20:28.680 --> 04:20:32.959
tonight or whether we want to and it's commissions not just

04:20:32.959 --> 04:20:33.559
mine and

04:20:33.559 --> 04:20:36.659
commissions purview to do that have it go back and cleaned

04:20:36.659 --> 04:20:38.040
up about the phase one

04:20:38.040 --> 04:20:43.579
to be able to have what we put in our ordinance somehow

04:20:43.579 --> 04:20:45.040
where it's accessible

04:20:45.040 --> 04:20:50.270
that people can find it and it's all that in work session

04:20:50.270 --> 04:20:51.120
so I don't go

04:20:51.120 --> 04:20:54.729
through it all again here how do we solve that problem the

04:20:54.729 --> 04:20:55.239
phase one

04:20:55.239 --> 04:21:00.569
situation staff will have to to research what avenues are

04:21:00.569 --> 04:21:01.879
to put that type of

04:21:01.879 --> 04:21:05.959
information out just keep in mind from a hierarchical step

04:21:05.959 --> 04:21:06.840
for you have the

04:21:06.840 --> 04:21:10.010
federal which is court of engineers FEMA and such then you

04:21:10.010 --> 04:21:11.760
have the state DCQ

04:21:11.760 --> 04:21:17.239
and then later the city most of the time work things work

04:21:17.239 --> 04:21:19.000
from federal to city

04:21:19.000 --> 04:21:23.709
but not from city to federal so we will have to find ways

04:21:23.709 --> 04:21:25.840
to actually make the

04:21:25.840 --> 04:21:31.239
ESA map make the ESA regulations more readable available

04:21:31.239 --> 04:21:33.200
out there we can look

04:21:33.200 --> 04:21:40.180
into look for more regional venues to do that like cog and

04:21:40.180 --> 04:21:41.239
other venues where

04:21:41.239 --> 04:21:46.299
many people actually use those resources so let us explore

04:21:46.299 --> 04:21:48.200
those options I don't

04:21:48.200 --> 04:21:51.829
have a definite answer for you I understand the need for it

04:21:51.829 --> 04:21:54.459
the more the

04:21:54.459 --> 04:21:59.409
more clear and available it is everybody will benefit from

04:21:59.409 --> 04:22:00.639
it we can start looking

04:22:00.639 --> 04:22:06.709
into definitely maybe doing something in our web page or

04:22:06.709 --> 04:22:07.399
something like that that

04:22:07.399 --> 04:22:12.649
is not so buried into you know layers and layers of clicks

04:22:12.649 --> 04:22:13.920
to be able to reach

04:22:13.920 --> 04:22:19.360
that so let us work on that I don't have a strategy but

04:22:19.360 --> 04:22:22.440
whatever we can whatever

04:22:22.440 --> 04:22:26.319
opportunity we have to actually put that information out

04:22:26.319 --> 04:22:29.000
there it is it is we will

04:22:29.000 --> 04:22:33.450
try that that is not the only one when it comes down to

04:22:33.450 --> 04:22:34.920
ease us flower mounds

04:22:34.920 --> 04:22:39.170
have something similar to it so I'm expecting that other

04:22:39.170 --> 04:22:40.000
cities will

04:22:40.000 --> 04:22:45.170
actually start looking to it and as scientists perform

04:22:45.170 --> 04:22:47.000
those studies they

04:22:47.000 --> 04:22:52.479
they become available you know to check with us and staff

04:22:52.479 --> 04:22:54.520
will keep educating

04:22:54.520 --> 04:23:02.059
our our applicants so whenever they come they know I think

04:23:02.059 --> 04:23:03.479
that's great and I'd

04:23:03.479 --> 04:23:07.760
love to see that if I could make a similar suggestion I

04:23:07.760 --> 04:23:09.399
have in the past

04:23:09.399 --> 04:23:12.319
would staff entertained reaching out to companies that

04:23:12.319 --> 04:23:13.680
actually do the phase one

04:23:13.680 --> 04:23:18.110
reports to say what's the industry standard where do you

04:23:18.110 --> 04:23:19.079
all go to go pull

04:23:19.079 --> 04:23:24.030
your data and do your research if it's geo whatever this is

04:23:24.030 --> 04:23:25.440
has on it hey here

04:23:25.440 --> 04:23:30.709
are the four national state whatever they are websites that

04:23:30.709 --> 04:23:31.879
we go and we look

04:23:31.879 --> 04:23:36.020
at to your point national state how does it the city of

04:23:36.020 --> 04:23:37.479
Denton add theirs to

04:23:37.479 --> 04:23:41.920
those websites and so instead of us to your point trying to

04:23:41.920 --> 04:23:43.319
create something

04:23:43.319 --> 04:23:46.500
go to the people that actually produce the reports and say

04:23:46.500 --> 04:23:47.399
give us the four or

04:23:47.399 --> 04:23:50.549
five places you guys go and pull the data down and then

04:23:50.549 --> 04:23:51.719
come back to us and

04:23:51.719 --> 04:23:54.500
say city Denton is going to be a partner and our data will

04:23:54.500 --> 04:23:55.760
be available in this

04:23:55.760 --> 04:23:58.600
same database that everybody goes to pull all this

04:23:58.600 --> 04:24:00.239
environmental information

04:24:00.239 --> 04:24:04.719
from them that might be a suggestion also to entertain is

04:24:04.719 --> 04:24:05.920
to how do we get

04:24:05.920 --> 04:24:09.079
our information out there so everybody is aware of it yeah

04:24:09.079 --> 04:24:11.959
we can we can pull

04:24:11.959 --> 04:24:16.959
our applicants for open record requests who have submitted

04:24:16.959 --> 04:24:18.360
one says geo search

04:24:18.360 --> 04:24:22.790
okay it's got gobs of pages of geo search so there's

04:24:22.790 --> 04:24:23.600
probably multiple

04:24:23.600 --> 04:24:28.549
ones okay and I think that's a from that would satisfy my

04:24:28.549 --> 04:24:30.360
concern is get it to

04:24:30.360 --> 04:24:35.690
where people can find it that's one of my one of my other

04:24:35.690 --> 04:24:38.399
ones and then the

04:24:38.399 --> 04:24:42.670
final point that we talked about in work session is and I

04:24:42.670 --> 04:24:43.879
think we've talked

04:24:43.879 --> 04:24:48.719
about a little bit here is to try to get the process to

04:24:48.719 --> 04:24:51.520
where it is not quite so

04:24:51.520 --> 04:24:57.329
much of a politically arbitrary one to more of a Harrison

04:24:57.329 --> 04:24:58.680
defined standards and

04:24:58.680 --> 04:25:01.620
it becomes a little more of a certainty if that's possible

04:25:01.620 --> 04:25:02.979
it may not be and we

04:25:02.979 --> 04:25:05.860
talked about several different ideas and work session and

04:25:05.860 --> 04:25:06.579
those would be

04:25:06.579 --> 04:25:10.100
something else that I'd like to see if we're going to

04:25:10.100 --> 04:25:11.159
revise this that that

04:25:11.159 --> 04:25:14.579
when it comes back before us or move it forward with all

04:25:14.579 --> 04:25:15.879
this stuff put in it

04:25:15.879 --> 04:25:20.069
tonight that we add that in if possible I don't know if

04:25:20.069 --> 04:25:21.479
anybody else has

04:25:21.479 --> 04:25:27.549
additional comments because if not I'm gonna go to the next

04:25:27.549 --> 04:25:30.920
cards for public

04:25:30.920 --> 04:25:41.959
okay thank you Deborah for your proposal I do have a card

04:25:41.959 --> 04:25:42.760
we should speak Kim

04:25:42.760 --> 04:25:52.299
McKeegan 1306 West Hickory in opposition my name is Kim Mc

04:25:52.299 --> 04:25:54.840
Keegan 1306 West

04:25:54.840 --> 04:25:59.280
Hickory here in Denton I am sorry that I am the only person

04:25:59.280 --> 04:26:01.000
from the public here

04:26:01.000 --> 04:26:04.629
to talk to you about this this evening I think that the

04:26:04.629 --> 04:26:06.040
environmentally sensitive

04:26:06.040 --> 04:26:09.340
areas that you've identified that you're trying to deal

04:26:09.340 --> 04:26:10.840
with are just that they're

04:26:10.840 --> 04:26:16.319
very sensitive things I think that it needs to be truly

04:26:16.319 --> 04:26:17.440
understand that it's

04:26:17.440 --> 04:26:20.649
not just because we want to keep the trees so that the

04:26:20.649 --> 04:26:21.799
birds will have a

04:26:21.799 --> 04:26:25.180
place to land it's not just because we want to keep the

04:26:25.180 --> 04:26:26.639
stream so a species of

04:26:26.639 --> 04:26:31.200
salamander will be there these areas are what purify your

04:26:31.200 --> 04:26:33.319
air they are your

04:26:33.319 --> 04:26:37.649
buffer between your residential sections and your water

04:26:37.649 --> 04:26:39.920
supply please remember

04:26:39.920 --> 04:26:43.700
that if you are allowing someone to encroach upon something

04:26:43.700 --> 04:26:44.600
that has been

04:26:44.600 --> 04:26:48.940
identified as an environmentally sensitive area I mean they

04:26:48.940 --> 04:26:49.479
're that for a

04:26:49.479 --> 04:26:52.629
reason it's not just because they're pretty or they've got

04:26:52.629 --> 04:26:53.440
a certain type of

04:26:53.440 --> 04:26:56.959
plant that grows there sometimes they are but usually in a

04:26:56.959 --> 04:26:57.920
inside the city

04:26:57.920 --> 04:27:01.440
limits you're protecting your drainage water which is going

04:27:01.440 --> 04:27:02.479
right back into

04:27:02.479 --> 04:27:05.540
your drinking water and by the way I live downstream so I

04:27:05.540 --> 04:27:06.680
am concerned about

04:27:06.680 --> 04:27:11.260
that so when you talk about the development and personal

04:27:11.260 --> 04:27:12.360
property owners

04:27:12.360 --> 04:27:16.100
and things along those lines and their rights we're not

04:27:16.100 --> 04:27:17.600
talking about a tree

04:27:17.600 --> 04:27:20.979
ordinance so much when you talk about environmentally

04:27:20.979 --> 04:27:22.440
sensitive areas you are

04:27:22.440 --> 04:27:28.719
talking about an identified area that somehow buffers us

04:27:28.719 --> 04:27:31.120
between our water our

04:27:31.120 --> 04:27:35.930
air and other things like that yes and didn't they have

04:27:35.930 --> 04:27:37.920
been overlooked they've

04:27:37.920 --> 04:27:42.959
been abused they've been used some that I don't I will

04:27:42.959 --> 04:27:45.760
never understand and

04:27:45.760 --> 04:27:48.790
maybe it'll be the Corps of Engineers that find some of

04:27:48.790 --> 04:27:49.840
those people for

04:27:49.840 --> 04:27:52.899
pollution of some of those areas later down the line but

04:27:52.899 --> 04:27:54.600
please as you look at

04:27:54.600 --> 04:27:58.840
these things in and it's I'm sorry it's not black and white

04:27:58.840 --> 04:28:01.399
you can't say this

04:28:01.399 --> 04:28:04.690
can be traded for this in a lot of cases because of the

04:28:04.690 --> 04:28:06.440
history of the land in

04:28:06.440 --> 04:28:10.159
where we live I mean when the Spaniards got here they said

04:28:10.159 --> 04:28:10.959
it was totally

04:28:10.959 --> 04:28:14.010
unusable you couldn't walk through it you couldn't write a

04:28:14.010 --> 04:28:14.639
horse through it

04:28:14.639 --> 04:28:18.870
because of all the post oaks and that understory so what we

04:28:18.870 --> 04:28:20.760
have now in some

04:28:20.760 --> 04:28:26.129
areas are just very small tidbits of other things like the

04:28:26.129 --> 04:28:27.680
upland the woodlands

04:28:27.680 --> 04:28:33.440
upland trees that that those tree stands are limited you

04:28:33.440 --> 04:28:36.079
cannot slice them up it's

04:28:36.079 --> 04:28:39.440
the understory as much as the trees themselves so you have

04:28:39.440 --> 04:28:40.479
those things to

04:28:40.479 --> 04:28:43.829
take into consideration so when someone comes before you or

04:28:43.829 --> 04:28:44.600
as you're trying to

04:28:44.600 --> 04:28:47.700
develop language for these things please be aware that they

04:28:47.700 --> 04:28:49.040
're declared sensitive

04:28:49.040 --> 04:28:55.250
areas for a reason and if you can keep away from them leave

04:28:55.250 --> 04:28:56.559
them alone don't

04:28:56.559 --> 04:29:00.079
split them up work with the property owners work with the

04:29:00.079 --> 04:29:01.239
business people if

04:29:01.239 --> 04:29:03.870
they'll put it on this side of the property instead of that

04:29:03.870 --> 04:29:04.440
side of the

04:29:04.440 --> 04:29:08.760
property can the city offer them anything we said in works

04:29:08.760 --> 04:29:09.319
or you said in

04:29:09.319 --> 04:29:12.700
work sessions that the city doesn't want them the

04:29:12.700 --> 04:29:13.879
developers don't want them

04:29:13.879 --> 04:29:16.760
nobody wants to take care of them maybe we need to look at

04:29:16.760 --> 04:29:17.879
that as a city about

04:29:17.879 --> 04:29:22.829
what we can do please if you don't understand what you're

04:29:22.829 --> 04:29:23.639
what you're

04:29:23.639 --> 04:29:27.319
pushing forward through and what you're setting as a

04:29:27.319 --> 04:29:29.639
precedent put this off get

04:29:29.639 --> 04:29:35.000
some more information so like I said I apologize that I'm

04:29:35.000 --> 04:29:36.040
the only one here I

04:29:36.040 --> 04:29:38.510
originally came to planning and zoning to learn about a

04:29:38.510 --> 04:29:40.000
tree ordinance and I've

04:29:40.000 --> 04:29:44.100
been here now for what four years on and off so please take

04:29:44.100 --> 04:29:45.879
take this take what

04:29:45.879 --> 04:29:49.020
you're about to do very seriously thank you I have some

04:29:49.020 --> 04:29:50.079
questions for you

04:29:50.079 --> 04:29:52.649
number one I want to tell you it's almost nine and you've

04:29:52.649 --> 04:29:53.559
been here since I

04:29:53.559 --> 04:29:56.450
think about four so appreciate you I did I came for the

04:29:56.450 --> 04:29:57.719
work session appreciate

04:29:57.719 --> 04:30:02.149
you being a tough it out and staying for the whole thing

04:30:02.149 --> 04:30:05.280
how would you we may have

04:30:05.280 --> 04:30:08.680
some areas we disagree maybe we have some that we agree on

04:30:08.680 --> 04:30:15.190
do you propose or think it's fair to to your point those

04:30:15.190 --> 04:30:15.840
areas that are

04:30:15.840 --> 04:30:18.899
environments that are better benefit everybody but they're

04:30:18.899 --> 04:30:19.840
on one person's

04:30:19.840 --> 04:30:24.790
property how is it equitable for that person to bear the

04:30:24.790 --> 04:30:27.159
burden of that for

04:30:27.159 --> 04:30:32.799
the good of the community well it depends and I don't have

04:30:32.799 --> 04:30:33.319
a straightforward

04:30:33.319 --> 04:30:36.739
answer for you that for that for you I don't know if it's

04:30:36.739 --> 04:30:37.719
the individuals

04:30:37.719 --> 04:30:40.159
responsibility to bear that burden or if it is the

04:30:40.159 --> 04:30:41.840
community's responsibility to

04:30:41.840 --> 04:30:46.000
bear that burden I would agree with you there if if I'm

04:30:46.000 --> 04:30:46.879
going to buy a piece of

04:30:46.879 --> 04:30:50.840
property and my people doing my phase one stuff have done a

04:30:50.840 --> 04:30:52.040
thorough vetted

04:30:52.040 --> 04:30:55.860
search I'm gonna know that I'm about to buy a piece of

04:30:55.860 --> 04:30:58.079
property that on the

04:30:58.079 --> 04:31:01.799
east side of the west side drains into Lake Louisville and

04:31:01.799 --> 04:31:02.920
I can't put anything

04:31:02.920 --> 04:31:05.870
down there because that's where all the rest of the

04:31:05.870 --> 04:31:07.399
community drains through

04:31:07.399 --> 04:31:11.739
and that's the filter zone or I can't cut down all the

04:31:11.739 --> 04:31:13.559
understory between my

04:31:13.559 --> 04:31:15.600
house and the Corps of Engineers Lake because it's

04:31:15.600 --> 04:31:16.840
environmentally sensitive

04:31:16.840 --> 04:31:21.120
area people have to be aware of what they're getting into

04:31:21.120 --> 04:31:21.760
like you've said

04:31:21.760 --> 04:31:24.389
before it's not like we're going out and creating these

04:31:24.389 --> 04:31:25.440
areas sometimes now

04:31:25.440 --> 04:31:28.600
occasionally they do move if you change if a streambed

04:31:28.600 --> 04:31:29.319
changes your

04:31:29.319 --> 04:31:31.920
environmentally sensitive area is going to move it's going

04:31:31.920 --> 04:31:32.860
to change there's no

04:31:32.860 --> 04:31:37.860
doubt about that I don't know if people realize how

04:31:37.860 --> 04:31:39.000
valuable some of those

04:31:39.000 --> 04:31:43.680
things are not just to the community but to adding to their

04:31:43.680 --> 04:31:44.959
property it's not

04:31:44.959 --> 04:31:49.649
always a bad thing to have these it can add to the to the

04:31:49.649 --> 04:31:51.239
overall beauty it can

04:31:51.239 --> 04:31:55.670
add to a different concept of stuff to purchase prohibited

04:31:55.670 --> 04:31:56.559
and put up walls

04:31:56.559 --> 04:31:59.770
I've seen communities do that it's like well here's the

04:31:59.770 --> 04:32:00.760
park and it's an

04:32:00.760 --> 04:32:02.989
environmentally sensitive area so we're just going to put

04:32:02.989 --> 04:32:03.680
up a wall and all the

04:32:03.680 --> 04:32:09.600
water spill into it that's not the solution and I do think

04:32:09.600 --> 04:32:10.079
that it's part

04:32:10.079 --> 04:32:13.959
of the community didn't didn't as a whole needs to value

04:32:13.959 --> 04:32:15.120
what we have

04:32:15.120 --> 04:32:18.549
particularly some of the some of the trees and the woodland

04:32:18.549 --> 04:32:19.399
areas that are

04:32:19.399 --> 04:32:23.280
very small it's like we don't have a map right now to look

04:32:23.280 --> 04:32:24.520
at today of where

04:32:24.520 --> 04:32:28.319
these particular areas are you can look it up on didn't

04:32:28.319 --> 04:32:29.680
stuff but a lot of it's

04:32:29.680 --> 04:32:33.870
outdated because gas stations have been built over it and

04:32:33.870 --> 04:32:35.920
things like that so I

04:32:35.920 --> 04:32:38.870
think as a community we need to be more aware and that's

04:32:38.870 --> 04:32:40.159
why it really hurts me

04:32:40.159 --> 04:32:43.379
that I'm the only public person here I understand that a

04:32:43.379 --> 04:32:44.440
lot of the public

04:32:44.440 --> 04:32:48.579
comment that was taken was basically from contractors

04:32:48.579 --> 04:32:50.200
developers real estate

04:32:50.200 --> 04:32:53.180
people and I don't think it ought to be that way but as a

04:32:53.180 --> 04:32:55.799
community as a city we

04:32:55.799 --> 04:32:58.709
need to be pushing some of this stuff I mean we worry about

04:32:58.709 --> 04:32:59.559
the size of the

04:32:59.559 --> 04:33:03.200
houses and the lot sizes but when you put all those houses

04:33:03.200 --> 04:33:04.439
and that concrete

04:33:04.439 --> 04:33:08.119
up and the water comes down you make me pay something for

04:33:08.119 --> 04:33:09.360
my runoff fee but

04:33:09.360 --> 04:33:11.880
where's it going it should be draining into these

04:33:11.880 --> 04:33:13.439
environmentally sensitive

04:33:13.439 --> 04:33:16.650
areas and taking it on down to Lewisville or at Roberts so

04:33:16.650 --> 04:33:17.560
I think that

04:33:17.560 --> 04:33:24.560
it's it's a bigger issue than just planning and zoning and

04:33:24.560 --> 04:33:25.959
this and I don't

04:33:25.959 --> 04:33:29.340
exactly know how to approach that but I felt compelled to

04:33:29.340 --> 04:33:30.439
stay find out what you

04:33:30.439 --> 04:33:33.439
guys were looking at I did try to read through a lot of the

04:33:33.439 --> 04:33:34.799
stuff maybe I

04:33:34.799 --> 04:33:38.319
didn't know what some chapter such-and-such was but then

04:33:38.319 --> 04:33:39.159
when I I

04:33:39.159 --> 04:33:41.889
typically go through everything and read it and that's what

04:33:41.889 --> 04:33:42.880
brought my attention

04:33:42.880 --> 04:33:46.560
to this so I think you've got a bigger conversation a

04:33:46.560 --> 04:33:48.520
community conversation a

04:33:48.520 --> 04:33:52.250
city conversation that needs to happen and maybe we can

04:33:52.250 --> 04:33:53.759
come up with some ideas

04:33:53.759 --> 04:33:56.959
I mean Denton really is an environmentally conscious area

04:33:56.959 --> 04:33:57.560
we're also

04:33:57.560 --> 04:34:00.729
a growing community I don't think those two things are

04:34:00.729 --> 04:34:02.799
mutually exclusive but I

04:34:02.799 --> 04:34:05.599
think we really do have to value what our resources are

04:34:05.599 --> 04:34:06.959
thank you for answer

04:34:06.959 --> 04:34:09.319
there's a couple other people Commissioner back thank you

04:34:09.319 --> 04:34:09.560
chair

04:34:09.560 --> 04:34:13.540
thanks Kim for coming down as usual you articulate thanks

04:34:13.540 --> 04:34:14.520
very well I think you

04:34:14.520 --> 04:34:18.150
did a great job here of creating that state of mind I was

04:34:18.150 --> 04:34:19.360
trying to present

04:34:19.360 --> 04:34:24.630
in several other areas but you came up in opposition to

04:34:24.630 --> 04:34:27.400
this so I think what

04:34:27.400 --> 04:34:31.860
we yeah what we what what's being proposed here I think are

04:34:31.860 --> 04:34:32.560
good things I

04:34:32.560 --> 04:34:36.840
think it does what essentially you're stating I don't think

04:34:36.840 --> 04:34:37.639
there's anything in

04:34:37.639 --> 04:34:40.520
there that hurts us was there one specific thing you saw

04:34:40.520 --> 04:34:41.319
though that you

04:34:41.319 --> 04:34:44.200
thought was gonna violate well I think some of the

04:34:44.200 --> 04:34:45.680
conversation that I heard

04:34:45.680 --> 04:34:50.200
during the work session today is what really concerned me

04:34:50.200 --> 04:34:54.040
okay you know is

04:34:54.040 --> 04:34:57.970
there really a clear understanding about what the essays

04:34:57.970 --> 04:34:59.520
are what they do for us

04:34:59.520 --> 04:35:04.279
as a community and how valuable they can be as opposed to

04:35:04.279 --> 04:35:05.919
if I cut this one down

04:35:05.919 --> 04:35:09.270
or if I cut this one in half can I mitigate this over here

04:35:09.270 --> 04:35:10.000
I don't think

04:35:10.000 --> 04:35:13.720
you can really in a lot of cases you can't create an

04:35:13.720 --> 04:35:14.840
alternative

04:35:14.840 --> 04:35:18.790
environmentally sensitive area you can mitigate trees that

04:35:18.790 --> 04:35:19.959
you cut down but

04:35:19.959 --> 04:35:25.250
once the trees are gone and the block of what that creature

04:35:25.250 --> 04:35:27.599
is is gone it loses

04:35:27.599 --> 04:35:33.159
it loses its pieces it loses its totality so that concerned

04:35:33.159 --> 04:35:34.599
me I I would

04:35:34.599 --> 04:35:40.240
like to to think that everybody understands what what we're

04:35:40.240 --> 04:35:41.119
talking

04:35:41.119 --> 04:35:43.909
about when we talk about it an ESA and environmentally

04:35:43.909 --> 04:35:45.479
sensitive area it's not

04:35:45.479 --> 04:35:48.689
just that this is here that's here but what they do for us

04:35:48.689 --> 04:35:49.799
as a community and

04:35:49.799 --> 04:35:53.580
I'm not real sure that I heard that understanding today and

04:35:53.580 --> 04:35:54.840
I agree there

04:35:54.840 --> 04:35:57.169
was that that element out there but I think what we're

04:35:57.169 --> 04:35:58.040
voting on here because

04:35:58.040 --> 04:36:00.020
I don't want you to be discouraged especially with me

04:36:00.020 --> 04:36:00.720
because we we see

04:36:00.720 --> 04:36:04.479
eyed eye on this is that really what the staff has done

04:36:04.479 --> 04:36:06.200
here is just refine this

04:36:06.200 --> 04:36:10.479
to a certain element that pretty much keeps things intact

04:36:10.479 --> 04:36:12.439
and honors the ESA

04:36:12.439 --> 04:36:16.599
I don't think we've got anything here that's going to allow

04:36:16.599 --> 04:36:18.040
any mitigation at

04:36:18.040 --> 04:36:20.639
this point that is going to be disrupted that'll be

04:36:20.639 --> 04:36:21.639
something we discuss down the

04:36:21.639 --> 04:36:25.729
road so I didn't want you to be discouraged because my

04:36:25.729 --> 04:36:26.639
sense is the

04:36:26.639 --> 04:36:31.919
Commission feels like this is a good revision change and we

04:36:31.919 --> 04:36:32.709
'll go forward with it it's not going to be the negative

04:36:32.709 --> 04:36:32.880
thing

04:36:32.880 --> 04:36:35.259
there down the road we're going to have to deal with these

04:36:35.259 --> 04:36:36.360
issues you've hit

04:36:36.360 --> 04:36:41.040
the broader aspects of it I agree there is anything this

04:36:41.040 --> 04:36:42.599
commission can do but I

04:36:42.599 --> 04:36:45.119
think this is something the city has taken up I've

04:36:45.119 --> 04:36:46.240
mentioned this in my

04:36:46.240 --> 04:36:51.189
social media comments that we've reached a point where the

04:36:51.189 --> 04:36:52.319
city is growing as

04:36:52.319 --> 04:36:56.639
rapidly as it is and it's encroaching on these areas and I

04:36:56.639 --> 04:36:58.000
agree with Chairman

04:36:58.000 --> 04:37:00.819
Strange you know it shouldn't fall on a single individual

04:37:00.819 --> 04:37:01.759
this should be an area

04:37:01.759 --> 04:37:04.290
where the community comes together and say hey you know we

04:37:04.290 --> 04:37:05.560
need to sustain this area

04:37:05.560 --> 04:37:07.650
doesn't need to fall on this one guy but that's something

04:37:07.650 --> 04:37:08.479
that has to go to city

04:37:08.479 --> 04:37:12.040
council we need to organize on that and I'd be glad to work

04:37:12.040 --> 04:37:12.520
with you on that

04:37:12.520 --> 04:37:15.900
it's the language yeah be careful of the language be

04:37:15.900 --> 04:37:17.080
careful of the loopholes

04:37:17.080 --> 04:37:21.279
that you may be leaving open and that's you know basically

04:37:21.279 --> 04:37:23.080
what what concerns me

04:37:23.080 --> 04:37:27.290
as you're putting forth an ordinance and yeah it's got to

04:37:27.290 --> 04:37:28.319
keep going up the line

04:37:28.319 --> 04:37:33.799
but just be aware of what the language is okay thanks Kim

04:37:33.799 --> 04:37:34.919
Commissioner Ellis

04:37:34.919 --> 04:37:37.279
thank you chair thanks Kim for coming out to share your

04:37:37.279 --> 04:37:39.520
thoughts yeah I guess

04:37:39.520 --> 04:37:42.700
to continue with what Larry said I'm a little bit surprised

04:37:42.700 --> 04:37:43.599
by your opposition

04:37:43.599 --> 04:37:46.939
because I I agree with your thoughts on this what this is

04:37:46.939 --> 04:37:48.159
is not a new ordinance

04:37:48.159 --> 04:37:51.159
this is a rewrite of the current thing that's on the books

04:37:51.159 --> 04:37:52.200
it actually makes it

04:37:52.200 --> 04:37:56.759
better it does define it better it makes it easier to read

04:37:56.759 --> 04:37:58.799
it's it's quicker to go

04:37:58.799 --> 04:38:02.799
through and understand what ESA's are staff has vetted this

04:38:02.799 --> 04:38:03.799
for a long time

04:38:03.799 --> 04:38:06.590
along with the community on the environment so these

04:38:06.590 --> 04:38:07.959
changes I think are

04:38:07.959 --> 04:38:12.049
good and and strengthen the ESA it's brought up great

04:38:12.049 --> 04:38:14.000
conversation here this

04:38:14.000 --> 04:38:17.520
is not the tree code that's still there and that's delayed

04:38:17.520 --> 04:38:20.159
but being discussed

04:38:20.159 --> 04:38:24.439
we probably still need further discussion on the the

04:38:24.439 --> 04:38:25.680
process of the

04:38:25.680 --> 04:38:28.860
alternative ESA and possibly we can move this forward

04:38:28.860 --> 04:38:30.400
because it makes sense to

04:38:30.400 --> 04:38:33.830
move this forward after this long these are good changes to

04:38:33.830 --> 04:38:34.659
this current

04:38:34.659 --> 04:38:37.669
ordinance that's not to say that we don't need further

04:38:37.669 --> 04:38:38.880
discussion on other

04:38:38.880 --> 04:38:42.509
parts of it but because we do I don't think we need to hold

04:38:42.509 --> 04:38:43.400
this up any longer

04:38:43.400 --> 04:38:47.520
my hope is maybe with the alternative plan process we can

04:38:47.520 --> 04:38:48.680
continue that

04:38:48.680 --> 04:38:52.569
discussion into our DDC rewrite and and and and give that

04:38:52.569 --> 04:38:53.759
the attention it

04:38:53.759 --> 04:38:56.459
desires because we're not going to be able to figure that

04:38:56.459 --> 04:38:58.319
out tonight what we

04:38:58.319 --> 04:39:01.259
should be able to figure out tonight because we've we've we

04:39:01.259 --> 04:39:02.400
've talked about it

04:39:02.400 --> 04:39:06.009
now at great length we've had it in our possession now for

04:39:06.009 --> 04:39:07.360
I think close to a

04:39:07.360 --> 04:39:12.479
month Deborah's gone above and beyond and in trying to get

04:39:12.479 --> 04:39:13.360
things worked out

04:39:13.360 --> 04:39:18.310
with our concerns with the public comment with working

04:39:18.310 --> 04:39:20.479
public comment that

04:39:20.479 --> 04:39:25.759
could be worked into these changes so I mean I'm in support

04:39:25.759 --> 04:39:27.200
of this where this

04:39:27.200 --> 04:39:31.290
is right now and again to request further conversation of

04:39:31.290 --> 04:39:31.799
what was brought

04:39:31.799 --> 04:39:37.029
up but I hate to stall this out I don't think that does the

04:39:37.029 --> 04:39:38.360
city any good at all

04:39:38.360 --> 04:39:42.889
nor the development community because a lot of their good

04:39:42.889 --> 04:39:44.240
suggestions have been

04:39:44.240 --> 04:39:48.450
incorporated into this rewrite it would make no sense to to

04:39:48.450 --> 04:39:50.159
oppose this well

04:39:50.159 --> 04:39:53.319
sometimes having to choose whether you're opposed or your

04:39:53.319 --> 04:39:55.040
support if you

04:39:55.040 --> 04:39:57.180
could see some of the cards that I write I just put a

04:39:57.180 --> 04:40:00.279
question mark in the middle

04:40:01.799 --> 04:40:07.250
I am NOT opposed to updating the ordinance I just am asking

04:40:07.250 --> 04:40:08.080
for caution

04:40:08.080 --> 04:40:12.720
and awareness and it seems like you're confident that that

04:40:12.720 --> 04:40:13.439
's there

04:40:17.360 --> 04:40:21.790
just an idea about your concerns for phase one and how we

04:40:21.790 --> 04:40:23.000
can put the

04:40:23.000 --> 04:40:26.040
information out there and make it available we're still

04:40:26.040 --> 04:40:27.200
working on the ESA

04:40:27.200 --> 04:40:34.169
criteria manual we are they intended just to address topics

04:40:34.169 --> 04:40:35.119
that homeowners

04:40:35.119 --> 04:40:38.639
would be interested in knowing but also the technical

04:40:38.639 --> 04:40:39.959
people who does the

04:40:39.959 --> 04:40:43.659
research so we can definitely address the phase one

04:40:43.659 --> 04:40:45.240
situation within the

04:40:45.240 --> 04:40:49.520
criteria manual because it would be very specific for the

04:40:49.520 --> 04:40:51.240
for the technical side

04:40:51.240 --> 04:40:56.909
of the users so that's an option for you to consider as

04:40:56.909 --> 04:41:02.119
well thank you thanks

04:41:02.119 --> 04:41:10.340
again for staying and comments is a public hearing I have

04:41:10.340 --> 04:41:12.119
no more cards we

04:41:12.119 --> 04:41:14.639
have one more card

04:41:21.240 --> 04:41:31.159
good evening Lee Allison with Allison engineering group

04:41:31.159 --> 04:41:32.000
representing the

04:41:32.000 --> 04:41:36.840
community development Alliance this evening appreciate this

04:41:36.840 --> 04:41:37.479
opportunity to

04:41:37.479 --> 04:41:42.709
speak again I'd like to say that the changes that the staff

04:41:42.709 --> 04:41:43.560
has recommended

04:41:43.560 --> 04:41:47.020
all sound good to us we think they could be implemented

04:41:47.020 --> 04:41:48.720
into the code it's the

04:41:48.720 --> 04:41:51.020
things that are not being addressed that are concerned

04:41:51.020 --> 04:41:52.319
particularly the portions

04:41:52.319 --> 04:41:55.159
that are broken and aren't being fixed I have heard

04:41:55.159 --> 04:41:56.919
discussion this evening and

04:41:56.919 --> 04:42:00.689
appreciate the idea of changing the process by which the

04:42:00.689 --> 04:42:01.959
code or alternate

04:42:01.959 --> 04:42:06.389
ESAs are considered again as you mentioned earlier mr. Beck

04:42:06.389 --> 04:42:07.119
we want to

04:42:07.119 --> 04:42:10.409
keep the science and the facts and the technology into it

04:42:10.409 --> 04:42:11.680
and the politics out

04:42:11.680 --> 04:42:14.770
and a zoning case tends to be more political as it should

04:42:14.770 --> 04:42:15.720
because you're

04:42:15.720 --> 04:42:19.240
dealing with land use versus land characteristics and

04:42:19.240 --> 04:42:20.119
granted these

04:42:20.119 --> 04:42:23.430
essays are purposeful characteristics but they're really

04:42:23.430 --> 04:42:24.560
not just the use of the

04:42:24.560 --> 04:42:29.610
land the bigger issues with alternative ESAs and making

04:42:29.610 --> 04:42:31.000
adjustments are really

04:42:31.000 --> 04:42:35.950
pretty much related to the the flood plains not to the wet

04:42:35.950 --> 04:42:37.159
lands not to the

04:42:37.159 --> 04:42:40.520
jurisdictional waters not to the navigable waters not to

04:42:40.520 --> 04:42:41.439
the to the

04:42:41.439 --> 04:42:44.439
timberlands it has more to do with the flood plains and you

04:42:44.439 --> 04:42:45.080
can have a flood

04:42:45.080 --> 04:42:48.189
plain that might be a thousand feet wide and you've got a

04:42:48.189 --> 04:42:49.840
200 foot stream buffer

04:42:49.840 --> 04:42:53.520
but we can hardly get into that thousand feet we have a

04:42:53.520 --> 04:42:55.279
restriction there are 50

04:42:55.279 --> 04:42:58.840
cubic yards of dirt that can be put in in one example that

04:42:58.840 --> 04:42:59.840
's point one nine

04:42:59.840 --> 04:43:03.220
inches of dirt over an acre of land we're told we can put

04:43:03.220 --> 04:43:04.200
parking lots in

04:43:04.200 --> 04:43:06.430
there but another section of the ordinance to say the

04:43:06.430 --> 04:43:07.159
parking lot has to

04:43:07.159 --> 04:43:10.319
be above the BFE you're not gonna bring those parking lots

04:43:10.319 --> 04:43:11.319
up with point one

04:43:11.319 --> 04:43:14.220
nine inches or point one nine feet of soil you're gonna

04:43:14.220 --> 04:43:15.200
need feet of soil

04:43:15.200 --> 04:43:19.220
you're gonna need much yards to do that when I look

04:43:19.220 --> 04:43:21.439
consider this more after

04:43:21.439 --> 04:43:26.169
last week the word that comes up is awkward and it's been

04:43:26.169 --> 04:43:27.200
the process that's

04:43:27.200 --> 04:43:30.819
been awkward to have a committee prepare an ordinance put

04:43:30.819 --> 04:43:32.040
the ordinance out there

04:43:32.040 --> 04:43:36.040
get public feedback then list the public comments but not

04:43:36.040 --> 04:43:37.680
go reiterate rework the

04:43:37.680 --> 04:43:42.849
ordinance and come back is just been kind of odd to me not

04:43:42.849 --> 04:43:44.560
that back-and-forth

04:43:44.560 --> 04:43:47.759
discussion and then to bring to the P&Z a list of comments

04:43:47.759 --> 04:43:48.959
that have been made

04:43:48.959 --> 04:43:51.189
and say which ones do you want to change in the ordinance

04:43:51.189 --> 04:43:52.119
kind of making you the

04:43:52.119 --> 04:43:56.919
next writer of it versus that iterative working cooperative

04:43:56.919 --> 04:43:58.040
process has been

04:43:58.040 --> 04:44:03.150
kind of awkward knowing what the purpose of the essays are

04:44:03.150 --> 04:44:05.680
and the opportunity to

04:44:05.680 --> 04:44:09.029
work with the drainage ordinance the floodplain ordinance

04:44:09.029 --> 04:44:09.560
the park

04:44:09.560 --> 04:44:13.340
recreation plans incorporating bike paths and walking

04:44:13.340 --> 04:44:14.599
trails in with the

04:44:14.599 --> 04:44:18.330
ESA's great places to have alternative routes for bike

04:44:18.330 --> 04:44:20.240
paths and in walking

04:44:20.240 --> 04:44:22.599
paths to get the bicycles off the streets instead of

04:44:22.599 --> 04:44:23.840
putting more lanes on

04:44:23.840 --> 04:44:26.409
to the streets not that some don't need to be there but

04:44:26.409 --> 04:44:27.680
other ways to keep

04:44:27.680 --> 04:44:30.689
traffic from having to mix in with each other instead of

04:44:30.689 --> 04:44:31.540
looking at those

04:44:31.540 --> 04:44:35.340
synergistic opportunities we're kind of segregating the ESA

04:44:35.340 --> 04:44:36.159
's from land

04:44:36.159 --> 04:44:40.240
development and telling developers to come in and try and

04:44:40.240 --> 04:44:41.759
get alternate ESA's

04:44:41.759 --> 04:44:44.599
I've had a couple of these changes request and one got

04:44:44.599 --> 04:44:45.520
turned down and

04:44:45.520 --> 04:44:49.240
after it was turned down XP&Z members have asked me why did

04:44:49.240 --> 04:44:49.599
you put that

04:44:49.599 --> 04:44:52.689
retaining wall that far back that was just blank land in

04:44:52.689 --> 04:44:53.319
front of there

04:44:53.319 --> 04:44:56.360
because y'all wouldn't let us move it forward didn't really

04:44:56.360 --> 04:44:57.439
understand what it

04:44:57.439 --> 04:45:01.389
was when it comes to the wetlands and so forth the Corps of

04:45:01.389 --> 04:45:03.040
Engineers the US Army

04:45:03.040 --> 04:45:06.209
Corps of Engineers the permits we have to get through the

04:45:06.209 --> 04:45:07.439
EPA etc are much more

04:45:07.439 --> 04:45:09.750
restrictive than what didn't would happen didn't doesn't

04:45:09.750 --> 04:45:10.919
need regulations to

04:45:10.919 --> 04:45:14.130
protect those other than you have to have a core permit we

04:45:14.130 --> 04:45:14.900
're already there

04:45:14.900 --> 04:45:18.209
and the mitigation costs are very expensive so I encourage

04:45:18.209 --> 04:45:18.919
you as we go

04:45:18.919 --> 04:45:24.720
forward ask that yes present these forward for change at

04:45:24.720 --> 04:45:25.479
this time but also

04:45:25.479 --> 04:45:28.509
as we go through a rewrite of the entire Denton Development

04:45:28.509 --> 04:45:29.200
Code that we

04:45:29.200 --> 04:45:32.080
coordinate these together and integrate them so that our

04:45:32.080 --> 04:45:33.000
limits on fill and

04:45:33.000 --> 04:45:37.159
valley storage and so forth something's broke let's fix it

04:45:37.159 --> 04:45:38.599
across the board not

04:45:38.599 --> 04:45:41.959
not fix it here because it said somewhere else and we can't

04:45:41.959 --> 04:45:42.560
change it

04:45:42.560 --> 04:45:46.479
thank you questions Commissioner Beck hey chair

04:45:46.479 --> 04:45:51.430
actually you brought up again the concern about which was

04:45:51.430 --> 04:45:53.000
in comment number 7

04:45:53.000 --> 04:45:56.130
about the dirt work quantities are too so to be meaningful

04:45:56.130 --> 04:45:57.360
and I would like to ask

04:45:57.360 --> 04:46:00.000
Deborah to come up because I asked her about this to

04:46:00.000 --> 04:46:01.279
clarify it was kind of

04:46:01.279 --> 04:46:05.709
muddy to me and could you share with us Deborah what you

04:46:05.709 --> 04:46:06.279
shared with me

04:46:06.279 --> 04:46:09.040
regarding this

04:46:23.000 --> 04:46:33.389
the limit on the 50 cubic yard or the 25 cubic year for

04:46:33.389 --> 04:46:34.639
residential 50 cubic

04:46:34.639 --> 04:46:38.470
yard for commercial is just to require the protection of

04:46:38.470 --> 04:46:39.919
the ESA the physical

04:46:39.919 --> 04:46:44.639
protection the fencing out it is the same threshold that

04:46:44.639 --> 04:46:46.200
anybody who will go

04:46:46.200 --> 04:46:51.150
and move dirt or excavate would require to pull a building

04:46:51.150 --> 04:46:52.319
permit a clear and

04:46:52.319 --> 04:46:56.819
great impairment during that process the staff does what we

04:46:56.819 --> 04:46:58.200
call the ESA review

04:46:58.200 --> 04:47:02.930
which is different from the ESA assessment okay what it

04:47:02.930 --> 04:47:04.720
does is ask the

04:47:04.720 --> 04:47:08.709
the developer or the owner to put some protective fence and

04:47:08.709 --> 04:47:09.759
just to let the

04:47:09.759 --> 04:47:14.369
people operating the heavy equipment that those are areas

04:47:14.369 --> 04:47:15.639
that needs to that

04:47:15.639 --> 04:47:20.869
not disturbance should happen that's what the 50 cubic the

04:47:20.869 --> 04:47:22.639
25 and the 50 50

04:47:22.639 --> 04:47:28.779
cubic yard is all about then we have on sex and section 17.

04:47:28.779 --> 04:47:30.080
7 the area that talks

04:47:30.080 --> 04:47:36.150
about feel on their own developed plane that's where we

04:47:36.150 --> 04:47:39.959
have the 300 cubic yard

04:47:39.959 --> 04:47:43.909
threshold that's for feel within the undeveloped floodplain

04:47:43.909 --> 04:47:45.840
but the 25 and the 50

04:47:45.840 --> 04:47:49.729
what is triggering is just the protection of the ESA the

04:47:49.729 --> 04:47:50.439
physical

04:47:50.439 --> 04:47:53.959
protection with some sort of fencing around so this is not

04:47:53.959 --> 04:47:54.520
limiting

04:47:54.520 --> 04:48:00.430
developers to build parking lots or anything like that the

04:48:00.430 --> 04:48:02.439
building in the

04:48:02.439 --> 04:48:06.450
in the in the floodplain you have to meet 17 which is is us

04:48:06.450 --> 04:48:08.680
but also 19 and

04:48:08.680 --> 04:48:14.950
again I'm branching out outside my expertise here but bear

04:48:14.950 --> 04:48:17.040
with me when you

04:48:17.040 --> 04:48:20.759
are developing in when you are feeling in the floodplain

04:48:20.759 --> 04:48:22.159
from a drainage

04:48:22.159 --> 04:48:26.590
standpoint there is a limit about how much feel you can put

04:48:26.590 --> 04:48:28.000
without increasing

04:48:28.000 --> 04:48:32.439
the value storage oh I will say reducing the value storage

04:48:32.439 --> 04:48:33.799
and increasing the BFE

04:48:33.799 --> 04:48:40.119
the base flood elevation most of the time the drainage code

04:48:40.119 --> 04:48:41.759
requires all parking

04:48:41.759 --> 04:48:47.360
areas to be elevated 12 inches above the BFE the base flood

04:48:47.360 --> 04:48:48.799
elevation the reason

04:48:48.799 --> 04:48:53.049
why is because during a flood flood event we don't want

04:48:53.049 --> 04:48:54.279
cars to be you know

04:48:54.279 --> 04:48:58.580
floating away when you have to put that much amount in the

04:48:58.580 --> 04:49:00.360
floodplain to elevate

04:49:00.360 --> 04:49:05.159
the parking pretty much chances are you are also reducing

04:49:05.159 --> 04:49:06.400
your value storage and

04:49:06.400 --> 04:49:12.470
you would be increasing the the BFE so most of the time

04:49:12.470 --> 04:49:13.599
parking needs to be

04:49:13.599 --> 04:49:18.029
happening outside the floodplain anyway and this is not

04:49:18.029 --> 04:49:19.639
from my ESA standpoint

04:49:19.639 --> 04:49:26.939
it just from a drainage standpoint so is that maybe a

04:49:26.939 --> 04:49:30.279
misunderstanding Lee or

04:49:30.279 --> 04:49:33.959
how would you know sir I think we're getting two things

04:49:33.959 --> 04:49:34.759
mixed together if

04:49:34.759 --> 04:49:38.680
you'll go to comment number 51 on the page part a when it

04:49:38.680 --> 04:49:40.200
talks about field is

04:49:40.200 --> 04:49:44.959
limited to 50 cubic yards or 300 cubic yards per acre that

04:49:44.959 --> 04:49:46.400
's just not enough

04:49:46.400 --> 04:49:50.020
dirt to be meaningful to even you're gonna have you this

04:49:50.020 --> 04:49:51.159
can be done without

04:49:51.159 --> 04:49:53.959
an alternate ESA but that's not enough work to be

04:49:53.959 --> 04:49:55.520
meaningful if we're gonna

04:49:55.520 --> 04:49:57.970
need to put a parking lot anywhere and we can do it and

04:49:57.970 --> 04:49:59.439
meet the other ordinances

04:49:59.439 --> 04:50:03.409
like sub chapter 19 regarded to drainage etc we have to go

04:50:03.409 --> 04:50:04.759
for an alternate ESA

04:50:04.759 --> 04:50:11.040
which isn't that onerous well currently is with having to

04:50:11.040 --> 04:50:11.880
go through the zoning

04:50:11.880 --> 04:50:14.630
but you know that's not something we're as much against it

04:50:14.630 --> 04:50:15.720
's just we're almost

04:50:15.720 --> 04:50:18.909
gonna have to do it every time to be able to work in a

04:50:18.909 --> 04:50:23.040
floodplain ESA and you

04:50:23.040 --> 04:50:26.020
know again if we've got a floodplain that's a thousand feet

04:50:26.020 --> 04:50:26.840
wide and we're

04:50:26.840 --> 04:50:29.939
wanting to come in two or three hundred feet on each side

04:50:29.939 --> 04:50:30.840
and we've got a

04:50:30.840 --> 04:50:33.849
stream buffer that's 200 feet wide we got wetlands that are

04:50:33.849 --> 04:50:34.840
within that stream

04:50:34.840 --> 04:50:37.720
buffer we're not getting into the wetlands and others but

04:50:37.720 --> 04:50:38.319
it's hard to

04:50:38.319 --> 04:50:41.840
get into that stream buffer I mean to that floodplain edge

04:50:41.840 --> 04:50:42.919
FEMA allows it in

04:50:42.919 --> 04:50:45.520
fact with FEMA I can do it with just a simple letter of map

04:50:45.520 --> 04:50:46.479
revision based on

04:50:46.479 --> 04:50:50.000
fill if it's a studied stream so this is a lot more string

04:50:50.000 --> 04:50:51.240
ent these are kind of

04:50:51.240 --> 04:50:53.990
meaningless but as Deborah was mentioning or alluding to

04:50:53.990 --> 04:50:55.080
and what I was trying to

04:50:55.080 --> 04:51:00.430
explain is you've got conditions in subchapter 19 of the

04:51:00.430 --> 04:51:01.439
drainage ordinance

04:51:01.439 --> 04:51:04.599
or over here in a floodplain ordinance and those don't

04:51:04.599 --> 04:51:06.080
necessarily make sense

04:51:06.080 --> 04:51:09.240
but we're not going to address those things that don't make

04:51:09.240 --> 04:51:10.159
sense in others

04:51:10.159 --> 04:51:13.049
so we're going to keep this subchapter the same and not

04:51:13.049 --> 04:51:14.200
deal with the bigger

04:51:14.200 --> 04:51:18.520
issue and I guess I'm asking is this goes forward should it

04:51:18.520 --> 04:51:19.799
then to go forward

04:51:19.799 --> 04:51:23.090
with an idea that as we look at the entire DDC together let

04:51:23.090 --> 04:51:23.919
's look at the

04:51:23.919 --> 04:51:27.840
impact of all of the sections of the code and not let one

04:51:27.840 --> 04:51:29.119
put a parameter

04:51:29.119 --> 04:51:33.900
around another that keeps it from making changes that would

04:51:33.900 --> 04:51:34.880
be appropriate that

04:51:34.880 --> 04:51:38.279
would be proper okay but I guess my concern is if you're

04:51:38.279 --> 04:51:39.080
going to build in

04:51:39.080 --> 04:51:43.599
a floodplain and you're going to have to come in with

04:51:43.599 --> 04:51:44.799
another field to actually

04:51:44.799 --> 04:51:52.130
alter the ESA there lies the conflict to me it's I

04:51:52.130 --> 04:51:54.919
understand that as a property

04:51:54.919 --> 04:51:59.189
owner they're kind of stuck with this but as a developer in

04:51:59.189 --> 04:52:00.479
your design is

04:52:00.479 --> 04:52:03.080
there no way you can come in and put the fill you need to

04:52:03.080 --> 04:52:04.000
to put the parking

04:52:04.000 --> 04:52:09.040
space in the building without encroaching the two the

04:52:09.040 --> 04:52:10.319
limits within

04:52:10.319 --> 04:52:14.470
well indent in the floodplain is an ESA right so to get

04:52:14.470 --> 04:52:16.319
into the floodplain you

04:52:16.319 --> 04:52:20.919
have to get into the ESA to encroach on it I mean you can't

04:52:20.919 --> 04:52:22.639
narrow your flood

04:52:22.639 --> 04:52:25.849
plane from a thousand feet to 200 feet without filling in

04:52:25.849 --> 04:52:27.080
the floodplain and

04:52:27.080 --> 04:52:32.819
therefore encroaching on the ESA you know it's okay well

04:52:32.819 --> 04:52:33.560
there I guess there

04:52:33.560 --> 04:52:38.709
in life the dilemma for most of us yeah you know what are

04:52:38.709 --> 04:52:41.279
we preserved do we do we

04:52:41.279 --> 04:52:44.270
deserve the person's right to you know build on a property

04:52:44.270 --> 04:52:45.159
that's going to

04:52:45.159 --> 04:52:48.959
really do something that's gonna negatively impact the

04:52:48.959 --> 04:52:50.000
entire community

04:52:50.000 --> 04:52:52.540
but it gets back to the question of why should one

04:52:52.540 --> 04:52:54.919
individual pay for it too so

04:52:54.919 --> 04:52:58.340
that's an argument we can't have here no and I think the

04:52:58.340 --> 04:52:59.599
question is case by

04:52:59.599 --> 04:53:03.229
case is it really negatively impacting the community just

04:53:03.229 --> 04:53:04.720
because it's reducing

04:53:04.720 --> 04:53:08.830
the size of an ESA doesn't mean it's having a negative

04:53:08.830 --> 04:53:10.759
impact I don't think

04:53:10.759 --> 04:53:13.520
it's necessarily neutral either I could be wrong but again

04:53:13.520 --> 04:53:14.540
that's a deeper

04:53:14.540 --> 04:53:17.479
discussion we get into but sure I see a point

04:53:17.479 --> 04:53:23.200
Deborah was are you you like to counter with anything that

04:53:23.200 --> 04:53:24.959
we just addressed here

04:53:24.959 --> 04:53:31.520
I mean I believe staff is looking into sub chapter 19 as

04:53:31.520 --> 04:53:33.319
well they you have

04:53:33.319 --> 04:53:36.479
seen the drainage criteria manual it's my understanding

04:53:36.479 --> 04:53:37.520
that they're also

04:53:37.520 --> 04:53:40.540
working on the 19 that would be something that you will be

04:53:40.540 --> 04:53:41.240
looking at it

04:53:41.240 --> 04:53:45.389
I don't know if that would be packaged as a part of the DDC

04:53:45.389 --> 04:53:46.639
rewrite or they

04:53:46.639 --> 04:53:53.360
wouldn't move it individually but those are those are the

04:53:53.360 --> 04:53:56.799
the discussions so I

04:53:56.799 --> 04:54:00.939
think that you would have the opportunity to take a look

04:54:00.939 --> 04:54:01.759
closely on

04:54:01.759 --> 04:54:06.919
on sub chapter 19 as well thank you

04:54:07.360 --> 04:54:10.779
late before I recognize Commissioner I want to follow up on

04:54:10.779 --> 04:54:11.520
Commissioner back's

04:54:11.520 --> 04:54:17.290
question I think that's some of this because of the

04:54:17.290 --> 04:54:18.240
technicality and all the

04:54:18.240 --> 04:54:22.330
layers it makes it sometimes difficult to follow all these

04:54:22.330 --> 04:54:24.840
the floodplain is

04:54:24.840 --> 04:54:29.069
is regulated by FEMA and you can modify that you can study

04:54:29.069 --> 04:54:30.000
it you can do letters

04:54:30.000 --> 04:54:32.720
of my provisions Clomor's and those types of things correct

04:54:32.720 --> 04:54:33.959
that is correct

04:54:33.959 --> 04:54:37.680
FEMA allows that the issue comes in and that's where I'm

04:54:37.680 --> 04:54:39.639
having a little bit of a

04:54:39.639 --> 04:54:43.279
concern and trying to bring some things up is that the city

04:54:43.279 --> 04:54:44.639
didn't then comes on

04:54:44.639 --> 04:54:48.150
top of it and then comes outside of it and says if it's in

04:54:48.150 --> 04:54:49.119
the eight puts an

04:54:49.119 --> 04:54:52.729
ESA on either side of it you can't come inside the ESA

04:54:52.729 --> 04:54:53.360
without doing an

04:54:53.360 --> 04:54:58.759
alternative ESA plan correct so FEMA allows you to do

04:54:58.759 --> 04:55:00.560
something and you can

04:55:00.560 --> 04:55:04.040
however the city of Denton has come and put another layer

04:55:04.040 --> 04:55:05.360
of regulation on top

04:55:05.360 --> 04:55:08.869
that says you can't do what you can through federal and all

04:55:08.869 --> 04:55:09.840
the guidelines

04:55:09.840 --> 04:55:12.270
and all the things that you have to do and we've had those

04:55:12.270 --> 04:55:13.240
discussions about

04:55:13.240 --> 04:55:16.799
the insurance and safety and all that kind of stuff so you

04:55:16.799 --> 04:55:17.799
didn't have a whole

04:55:17.799 --> 04:55:20.680
another layer of regulation on top that makes that where

04:55:20.680 --> 04:55:21.840
you can't do it unless

04:55:21.840 --> 04:55:26.610
you do an alternate ESA that's correct and that's where I

04:55:26.610 --> 04:55:29.159
have a difficult time

04:55:29.159 --> 04:55:32.270
when we're talking about this is there are protections for

04:55:32.270 --> 04:55:33.799
things it's through

04:55:33.799 --> 04:55:36.529
federal it's through state but the city didn't puts an

04:55:36.529 --> 04:55:38.400
extra one on top and then

04:55:38.400 --> 04:55:41.529
how do people find out about it because these reports are

04:55:41.529 --> 04:55:42.799
typically pulled off

04:55:42.799 --> 04:55:46.430
of federal and state maps and the city of Denton is coming

04:55:46.430 --> 04:55:47.639
out and putting a

04:55:47.639 --> 04:55:49.860
whole nother layer of regulation a whole additional

04:55:49.860 --> 04:55:51.759
economic burden on individual

04:55:51.759 --> 04:55:54.970
property owners that we don't have in a federal and the

04:55:54.970 --> 04:55:56.439
state level and that's

04:55:56.439 --> 04:56:00.689
where I'm struggling with some of this trying to find a

04:56:00.689 --> 04:56:02.520
happy median of protect

04:56:02.520 --> 04:56:06.029
the environment there are guidelines on their federal and

04:56:06.029 --> 04:56:07.080
state level see it

04:56:07.080 --> 04:56:10.369
then has another level what's the balance that we're going

04:56:10.369 --> 04:56:10.919
to do as a

04:56:10.919 --> 04:56:13.810
municipality in a regulation we're going to put and then

04:56:13.810 --> 04:56:15.080
say that guy over there

04:56:15.080 --> 04:56:17.439
we're going to take all this property through our

04:56:17.439 --> 04:56:18.799
regulation for the good of

04:56:18.799 --> 04:56:21.459
the community and you just have to bear the burden but the

04:56:21.459 --> 04:56:22.319
federal government

04:56:22.319 --> 04:56:24.950
and the state government says you can work in those areas

04:56:24.950 --> 04:56:25.919
but the city of Denton

04:56:25.919 --> 04:56:31.040
says you can't or you have to do an alternate ESA and then

04:56:31.040 --> 04:56:31.919
it's a political

04:56:31.919 --> 04:56:35.630
process and it's not defined it's very defined when you do

04:56:35.630 --> 04:56:37.400
a FEMA permit it's

04:56:37.400 --> 04:56:40.919
black and white and I know that's not a term people want to

04:56:40.919 --> 04:56:42.119
hear but it's a very

04:56:42.119 --> 04:56:45.080
specific guideline how you do it and if you can't meet the

04:56:45.080 --> 04:56:46.200
guidelines you don't

04:56:46.200 --> 04:56:49.919
get to do it so I would pitch it back to you Commissioner

04:56:49.919 --> 04:56:51.159
back okay thank you

04:56:51.159 --> 04:56:54.580
chair and I do understand the dilemma we have with not

04:56:54.580 --> 04:56:57.119
being able to have all the

04:56:57.119 --> 04:57:00.090
levels of regulation up there in front of the developers

04:57:00.090 --> 04:57:01.319
you've got federal and

04:57:01.319 --> 04:57:04.930
state and then boom come in here comes the city I would

04:57:04.930 --> 04:57:06.200
just comment that

04:57:06.200 --> 04:57:09.270
federal and state don't necessarily have the best interest

04:57:09.270 --> 04:57:10.439
of a community in mind

04:57:10.439 --> 04:57:14.209
so the fact that the city said that we do have a department

04:57:14.209 --> 04:57:15.520
in the city that is

04:57:15.520 --> 04:57:17.750
looking out a little bit more for us I'm okay with that but

04:57:17.750 --> 04:57:18.560
I don't want to make

04:57:18.560 --> 04:57:21.259
it rough on the bill but nobody does but I wouldn't be

04:57:21.259 --> 04:57:22.520
little the fact that just

04:57:22.520 --> 04:57:25.029
because the city has another level there it's necessarily a

04:57:25.029 --> 04:57:25.799
bad thing I think

04:57:25.799 --> 04:57:28.619
they're there in our interest we just need to try and work

04:57:28.619 --> 04:57:29.599
out the kinks I

04:57:29.599 --> 04:57:35.479
agree without doing one more day we need stewardship yes

04:57:35.479 --> 04:57:36.840
and then there was a

04:57:36.840 --> 04:57:39.930
sarcastic comment in there about how FEMA can come in and

04:57:39.930 --> 04:57:40.840
change the flood

04:57:40.840 --> 04:57:43.930
plain without going through the zoning process and changes

04:57:43.930 --> 04:57:47.080
everybody ESA so in

04:57:47.080 --> 04:57:49.959
fact they're in the process of changing maps now so the yes

04:57:49.959 --> 04:57:51.040
of the floodplain

04:57:51.040 --> 04:57:54.959
ESAs may change again in the next year or two don't they do

04:57:54.959 --> 04:57:58.240
that every year no

04:57:58.240 --> 04:58:01.919
they've started to do it more frequently since hurricane

04:58:01.919 --> 04:58:03.360
Katrina and others but

04:58:03.360 --> 04:58:05.270
prior to that it might have been ten or twenty years

04:58:05.270 --> 04:58:06.119
whether they put new maps

04:58:06.119 --> 04:58:11.790
out yeah Commissioner Rosa thank you chair I have a

04:58:11.790 --> 04:58:12.680
question for mr. Austin

04:58:12.680 --> 04:58:15.799
before I get to that I find myself strangely maybe

04:58:15.799 --> 04:58:17.000
surprising myself can

04:58:17.000 --> 04:58:22.250
agree with this question or back on the political idea that

04:58:22.250 --> 04:58:23.799
although I think

04:58:23.799 --> 04:58:27.150
federal and state governments awesome I don't know if they

04:58:27.150 --> 04:58:28.119
're in our backyard

04:58:28.119 --> 04:58:32.069
looking after our trees and so I'm not necessarily opposed

04:58:32.069 --> 04:58:33.279
to having a local

04:58:33.279 --> 04:58:38.299
authority theoretically and hopefully looking out for the

04:58:38.299 --> 04:58:39.000
best interest of the

04:58:39.000 --> 04:58:41.610
community I would one hope that they are looking out for

04:58:41.610 --> 04:58:42.200
the best interest of the

04:58:42.200 --> 04:58:45.159
community that's why there is extra scrutiny but to chairs

04:58:45.159 --> 04:58:46.180
point there has

04:58:46.180 --> 04:58:49.130
to be a way for developers and property owners to know what

04:58:49.130 --> 04:58:50.439
that is if if we're

04:58:50.439 --> 04:58:53.020
adamant about having an extra level of scrutiny then we

04:58:53.020 --> 04:58:54.159
should also be adamant

04:58:54.159 --> 04:58:57.610
about the transparency in which that scrutiny is going to

04:58:57.610 --> 04:58:58.680
be applied to the

04:58:58.680 --> 04:59:01.689
property owners and developers and if it's if there is some

04:59:01.689 --> 04:59:02.400
issue with a

04:59:02.400 --> 04:59:05.310
phase one which to be honest I learned about tonight what

04:59:05.310 --> 04:59:06.840
that was if there is

04:59:06.840 --> 04:59:09.869
issues with something like that then I would like to to

04:59:09.869 --> 04:59:11.240
encourage the city and

04:59:11.240 --> 04:59:14.060
staff to find ways to make that more transparent for

04:59:14.060 --> 04:59:15.400
development to happen

04:59:15.400 --> 04:59:19.830
that's just a point the question I had was free mr. Austin

04:59:19.830 --> 04:59:21.479
you you've also been

04:59:21.479 --> 04:59:24.659
here five hours on many nights and I appreciate very much

04:59:24.659 --> 04:59:25.720
the feedback you

04:59:25.720 --> 04:59:29.400
provide to this Commission and to staff and your work is

04:59:29.400 --> 04:59:30.880
evident here if I

04:59:30.880 --> 04:59:34.400
understood you correctly and I want to make sure I did it

04:59:34.400 --> 04:59:36.119
sounded to me like you

04:59:36.119 --> 04:59:40.580
were okay or in agreement with the 20 responses that staff

04:59:40.580 --> 04:59:41.639
made to the public

04:59:41.639 --> 04:59:46.270
comment with the encouragement that through the DDC rewrite

04:59:46.270 --> 04:59:47.080
that's also

04:59:47.080 --> 04:59:51.250
going on that this Commission and Council more holistically

04:59:51.250 --> 04:59:52.040
look at the

04:59:52.040 --> 04:59:55.419
alignment between sub chapters to make sure there's a

04:59:55.419 --> 04:59:57.360
holistic approach did I

04:59:57.360 --> 05:00:00.419
understand you correctly or did I miss you somewhere I

05:00:00.419 --> 05:00:01.439
wished I'd said it as

05:00:01.439 --> 05:00:08.740
well some emphasis on the process related to zoning that's

05:00:08.740 --> 05:00:09.319
completely

05:00:09.319 --> 05:00:12.299
understand and it seems like from I believe what Deborah

05:00:12.299 --> 05:00:13.200
said that there

05:00:13.200 --> 05:00:16.759
might be opportunities when we look at the holistic rewrite

05:00:16.759 --> 05:00:17.479
to look at sub

05:00:17.479 --> 05:00:21.810
chapter 19 and kind of dive more into that so I appreciate

05:00:21.810 --> 05:00:22.759
the confirmation

05:00:22.759 --> 05:00:30.779
thank you I don't see any other questions this is a public

05:00:30.779 --> 05:00:31.439
hearing and I

05:00:31.439 --> 05:00:34.259
don't think there's anybody else left to speak on this item

05:00:34.259 --> 05:00:35.200
so I'm gonna close

05:00:35.200 --> 05:00:39.029
the public hearing and I'm gonna open the floor for

05:00:39.029 --> 05:00:40.959
discussion and emotion

05:00:41.479 --> 05:00:54.319
Commissioner Beck I got the right one DCA 17 oh one a one C

05:00:54.319 --> 05:00:58.759
yes with the

05:00:58.759 --> 05:01:02.389
stipulation that the comments that we agreed upon today are

05:01:02.389 --> 05:01:03.400
included in the

05:01:03.400 --> 05:01:09.159
rewrite in the revision that covered all

05:01:09.279 --> 05:01:17.409
Richard okay yeah okay can I go ahead and just maybe repeat

05:01:17.409 --> 05:01:18.000
what you were

05:01:18.000 --> 05:01:21.759
saying sure was that you want to that your motion is to

05:01:21.759 --> 05:01:23.000
approve all 20

05:01:23.000 --> 05:01:26.200
revisions as provided in the notes in addition to the

05:01:26.200 --> 05:01:27.520
definition of the wet

05:01:27.520 --> 05:01:30.740
lands and the definition of the upland habitat and also to

05:01:30.740 --> 05:01:31.520
include the

05:01:31.520 --> 05:01:38.849
expansion of significant under 37 17 5d to include 50% as

05:01:38.849 --> 05:01:40.639
being significant yeah

05:01:40.639 --> 05:01:46.520
well and what about the a ESA process do we want to attach

05:01:46.520 --> 05:01:47.360
that here well it

05:01:47.360 --> 05:01:51.040
should be kept it separate that's it would be your motion

05:01:51.040 --> 05:01:54.319
but but it was my

05:01:54.319 --> 05:01:58.490
yeah so my opinion on that portion of it if it was to be

05:01:58.490 --> 05:02:00.560
included is that you

05:02:00.560 --> 05:02:04.080
would give staff and especially our department a chance to

05:02:04.080 --> 05:02:04.759
review that

05:02:04.759 --> 05:02:09.360
process and how it impacts other provisions okay let's

05:02:09.360 --> 05:02:09.840
leave that off

05:02:09.840 --> 05:02:14.400
then let's do everything you said before I open my mouth

05:02:15.159 --> 05:02:18.270
Commissioner Ellis I will second that do I need to restate

05:02:18.270 --> 05:02:19.720
it because I wrote it

05:02:19.720 --> 05:02:24.669
just like you said it Victor so I will second it and I will

05:02:24.669 --> 05:02:26.240
say with the hope

05:02:26.240 --> 05:02:29.470
that we can move this along because I think we've vetted it

05:02:29.470 --> 05:02:30.560
really well and I

05:02:30.560 --> 05:02:33.229
would hope that we continue the the discussion for the

05:02:33.229 --> 05:02:34.279
process and we can do

05:02:34.279 --> 05:02:39.529
that properly we have a first and a second for approval

05:02:39.529 --> 05:02:40.919
with the conditions

05:02:40.919 --> 05:02:49.720
added by legal any discussion

05:02:56.240 --> 05:03:06.020
well I was going to make a comment if we weren't going to

05:03:06.020 --> 05:03:08.000
call for and I'm a call

05:03:08.000 --> 05:03:13.639
for a building board I'm not going to support the motion

05:03:13.639 --> 05:03:14.479
because I'd like to

05:03:14.479 --> 05:03:17.639
see the changes that have been talked about cleaned up and

05:03:17.639 --> 05:03:18.639
brought back and

05:03:18.639 --> 05:03:25.349
have a final clean look at the ordinance I'd like to see 30

05:03:25.349 --> 05:03:26.840
days and then have it

05:03:26.840 --> 05:03:30.560
back cleaned up and ready to move forward and so I would

05:03:30.560 --> 05:03:31.240
support

05:03:31.240 --> 05:03:34.380
continuance for 30 days to allow the changes that we've

05:03:34.380 --> 05:03:35.560
talked about the

05:03:35.560 --> 05:03:40.950
phase one some of the other items that have been mentioned

05:03:40.950 --> 05:03:42.520
and then clean it up

05:03:42.520 --> 05:03:50.270
and I'd also like to see some discussion of the city taking

05:03:50.270 --> 05:03:52.439
these areas and

05:03:52.439 --> 05:03:54.959
designating them in for the public good and yet the

05:03:54.959 --> 05:03:56.439
individual property owners

05:03:56.439 --> 05:03:59.650
are bearing the burden of that and I have said it over and

05:03:59.650 --> 05:04:00.639
over again on this

05:04:00.639 --> 05:04:03.169
Commission that I don't have a problem with the

05:04:03.169 --> 05:04:04.799
environmental areas and I have

05:04:04.799 --> 05:04:07.900
a problem with preserving trees what I do have a problem

05:04:07.900 --> 05:04:09.220
with is if it's public

05:04:09.220 --> 05:04:12.459
policy and it's for the good of the community the community

05:04:12.459 --> 05:04:13.360
should bear the

05:04:13.360 --> 05:04:17.150
cost of those items and we're gonna with the ordinance here

05:04:17.150 --> 05:04:18.400
we're going to raise

05:04:18.400 --> 05:04:22.490
the percentages on the upland habitat which puts a greater

05:04:22.490 --> 05:04:23.759
burden on individual

05:04:23.759 --> 05:04:26.840
property owners they may have audit thinking they could do

05:04:26.840 --> 05:04:27.400
a certain

05:04:27.400 --> 05:04:32.900
percentage and we're changing that and I'm not comfortable

05:04:32.900 --> 05:04:35.439
voting for that for

05:04:35.439 --> 05:04:40.509
those reasons so Commissioner Beck do you want to speak

05:04:40.509 --> 05:04:41.400
before I call for a vote

05:04:41.400 --> 05:04:44.819
on the board or yes Commissioner Beck okay and again I

05:04:44.819 --> 05:04:46.080
empathize with your

05:04:46.080 --> 05:04:51.110
concerns about that I but I you know hesitate to hold this

05:04:51.110 --> 05:04:52.240
up we've done this

05:04:52.240 --> 05:04:55.119
with the tree co and it just keeps getting held there's no

05:04:55.119 --> 05:04:55.840
reason not to

05:04:55.840 --> 05:04:59.720
move this forward I would be with you side by side to deal

05:04:59.720 --> 05:05:00.439
with these finer

05:05:00.439 --> 05:05:03.650
points that you want to deal I don't think we need to hold

05:05:03.650 --> 05:05:05.080
this revision up

05:05:05.080 --> 05:05:08.439
to do that though and I completely agree with you that I

05:05:08.439 --> 05:05:09.520
think it's time that the

05:05:09.520 --> 05:05:12.169
city bucked up and said look you know if we're gonna

05:05:12.169 --> 05:05:13.000
preserve some of these

05:05:13.000 --> 05:05:16.009
areas then you know we need to do that not put it on the

05:05:16.009 --> 05:05:17.400
owner so I would

05:05:17.400 --> 05:05:21.680
encourage to approve this revision and move forward and

05:05:21.680 --> 05:05:22.319
then deal with these

05:05:22.319 --> 05:05:25.360
other things as time goes by rather than drag it out there

05:05:25.360 --> 05:05:26.759
much longer thank you

05:05:26.759 --> 05:05:30.869
well I'm glad that we agree on that because I think the

05:05:30.869 --> 05:05:31.959
concern that I have

05:05:31.959 --> 05:05:34.840
is that when the ordinance passes and it goes from here out

05:05:34.840 --> 05:05:35.680
in the community

05:05:35.680 --> 05:05:38.319
says you'll preserve it the discussion and the opportunity

05:05:38.319 --> 05:05:39.000
for the city to

05:05:39.000 --> 05:05:43.299
step up and say we're increasing the burden is gone away it

05:05:43.299 --> 05:05:44.319
's now regulated

05:05:44.319 --> 05:05:46.770
and it's by ordinance and there's no discussion of the city

05:05:46.770 --> 05:05:47.439
's going to step

05:05:47.439 --> 05:05:50.819
up and go by those areas or compensate property owners for

05:05:50.819 --> 05:05:51.840
it it's going to be

05:05:51.840 --> 05:05:55.540
done and there won't be that conversation that was the

05:05:55.540 --> 05:05:56.279
concern I had

05:05:56.279 --> 05:05:59.380
with the tree code that's the same concern I have here as

05:05:59.380 --> 05:06:00.319
we continue to

05:06:00.319 --> 05:06:03.740
increase regulation for the public good at the expense of

05:06:03.740 --> 05:06:04.880
private property

05:06:04.880 --> 05:06:08.490
owners and I think we can keep moving them forward I'm

05:06:08.490 --> 05:06:09.080
gonna be the lone

05:06:09.080 --> 05:06:13.009
voice maybe to vote against it on that principle and so be

05:06:13.009 --> 05:06:14.560
it but I am going to

05:06:14.560 --> 05:06:18.189
state emphatically that when we pass these ordinances this

05:06:18.189 --> 05:06:19.880
way that's now the

05:06:19.880 --> 05:06:22.599
law and there is no incentive for the city now to come out

05:06:22.599 --> 05:06:23.400
and say well we've

05:06:23.400 --> 05:06:27.880
taken it from 25 to 50 or 15 to 30 and we're gonna pay for

05:06:27.880 --> 05:06:29.159
the difference it's

05:06:29.159 --> 05:06:31.790
now that's the law and you guys just lost the use of

05:06:31.790 --> 05:06:33.159
whatever property that

05:06:33.159 --> 05:06:35.650
is in the value and that's the end of the discussion and I

05:06:35.650 --> 05:06:36.520
have a problem with

05:06:36.520 --> 05:06:40.450
that so I'm not gonna vote for it because of that it's a

05:06:40.450 --> 05:06:41.759
philosophical

05:06:41.759 --> 05:06:46.319
issue it is a big issue it's not for me to solve it's for

05:06:46.319 --> 05:06:48.060
me to state it the

05:06:48.060 --> 05:06:51.099
Commission votes how they are and the general public or

05:06:51.099 --> 05:06:52.259
city council can hear

05:06:52.259 --> 05:06:56.560
it and say you know what we think that's wrong and we don't

05:06:56.560 --> 05:06:57.159
think it's right to

05:06:57.159 --> 05:07:00.680
take people's property we need to if it's important enough

05:07:00.680 --> 05:07:01.439
we need as a

05:07:01.439 --> 05:07:03.689
community you need to raise the funds that we need to go

05:07:03.689 --> 05:07:04.520
buy these areas and

05:07:04.520 --> 05:07:07.479
we'll protect them for the public good from here on out and

05:07:07.479 --> 05:07:08.520
these items don't

05:07:08.520 --> 05:07:11.400
continue to come back to us over and over again and we

05:07:11.400 --> 05:07:12.799
argue about whether

05:07:12.799 --> 05:07:15.490
it's an alternate or not or how much you can take whatever

05:07:15.490 --> 05:07:16.680
it's the city owns it

05:07:16.680 --> 05:07:20.310
see maintained at City Park Department whoever at the city

05:07:20.310 --> 05:07:21.520
level owns it and

05:07:21.520 --> 05:07:23.880
takes care of it and it's now public good bought with

05:07:23.880 --> 05:07:24.840
public funds and pay

05:07:24.840 --> 05:07:29.790
for and private individuals are out of that mix and because

05:07:29.790 --> 05:07:31.200
of that that's why

05:07:31.200 --> 05:07:33.880
I'm not gonna vote for this it's why I didn't vote for the

05:07:33.880 --> 05:07:34.860
tree code and I'm

05:07:34.860 --> 05:07:38.580
gonna stay consistent to those principles so Commissioner

05:07:38.580 --> 05:07:40.400
Sanchez I'd

05:07:40.400 --> 05:07:43.310
like to just say that I agree with you I think we need to

05:07:43.310 --> 05:07:44.279
really get everything

05:07:44.279 --> 05:07:47.330
put in writing I think there's been a lot of discussion on

05:07:47.330 --> 05:07:48.240
this issue more

05:07:48.240 --> 05:07:51.529
than you know we've gone through what two three weeks two

05:07:51.529 --> 05:07:52.639
three meetings on

05:07:52.639 --> 05:07:56.860
this and I still think there's a lot of misunderstanding on

05:07:56.860 --> 05:07:57.639
what what should be

05:07:57.639 --> 05:08:02.069
written on the regulation so I'd like to see it in print so

05:08:02.069 --> 05:08:02.840
I can actually read

05:08:02.840 --> 05:08:08.069
what we're saying what we want and then I think there's no

05:08:08.069 --> 05:08:09.479
problem with we

05:08:09.479 --> 05:08:14.119
shouldn't be in a hurry get it get it passed so that in you

05:08:14.119 --> 05:08:16.439
know I just

05:08:16.439 --> 05:08:19.599
believe that let's get it if we have to have more meetings

05:08:19.599 --> 05:08:20.720
on this let's do it

05:08:20.720 --> 05:08:25.069
it doesn't it doesn't bother me to to do it right or figure

05:08:25.069 --> 05:08:26.520
out what we want on

05:08:26.520 --> 05:08:30.950
on this regulation without I just want to be able to read

05:08:30.950 --> 05:08:34.560
what we're voting on

05:08:34.759 --> 05:08:37.759
Commissioner Ellis

05:08:40.240 --> 05:08:44.520
thank you chair I think Commissioner Roselle's ahead of me

05:08:44.520 --> 05:08:44.799
I'm sorry it

05:08:44.799 --> 05:08:47.049
bumped and I missed saying it Commissioner Roselle my

05:08:47.049 --> 05:08:47.759
apologies it

05:08:47.759 --> 05:08:55.799
doesn't matter chair does the delay not the delay would a

05:08:55.799 --> 05:08:56.720
continuance of this

05:08:56.720 --> 05:09:00.869
item affect the work being done on the DDT see rewrite

05:09:00.869 --> 05:09:02.439
because if we if the

05:09:02.439 --> 05:09:07.860
chair proposes a 30-day continuance that puts us to at

05:09:07.860 --> 05:09:10.080
least two meetings into

05:09:10.080 --> 05:09:16.150
the DDC schedule we were presented earlier a week ahead of

05:09:16.150 --> 05:09:17.720
the zoning map

05:09:17.720 --> 05:09:22.950
proposal and so I'm curious about the implications I'm not

05:09:22.950 --> 05:09:23.799
opposed to

05:09:23.799 --> 05:09:27.880
continuing for 30 days to to have this in writing I'll be

05:09:27.880 --> 05:09:29.599
honest I don't I don't

05:09:29.599 --> 05:09:32.959
think the the increase in protection is gonna go away in 30

05:09:32.959 --> 05:09:34.040
days what seems to

05:09:34.040 --> 05:09:38.720
be the principal issue for for your vote nevertheless I don

05:09:38.720 --> 05:09:39.520
't know if it's it's

05:09:39.520 --> 05:09:43.150
ever a harm to see things more in the language more drawn

05:09:43.150 --> 05:09:44.479
out and fleshed out

05:09:44.479 --> 05:09:47.029
rather than a comment section I'm not opposed to that I

05:09:47.029 --> 05:09:48.639
just would like staff's

05:09:48.639 --> 05:09:53.270
and point input on the negative impact it might have if any

05:09:53.270 --> 05:09:54.959
to the DDT see

05:09:54.959 --> 05:10:00.520
rewrite efforts it wouldn't really affect it since we're

05:10:00.520 --> 05:10:01.200
gonna hold those

05:10:01.200 --> 05:10:03.799
review meetings as a separate meeting we would just keep

05:10:03.799 --> 05:10:04.959
this on out whether we

05:10:04.959 --> 05:10:08.520
hold it with a at a regular meeting we can do it either way

05:10:08.520 --> 05:10:09.639
but it wouldn't

05:10:09.639 --> 05:10:15.000
necessarily delay the project thank you so my next question

05:10:15.000 --> 05:10:20.880
would be I guess to

05:10:20.880 --> 05:10:24.680
take advantage and captivate most effectively the 30 days

05:10:24.680 --> 05:10:25.520
if that was to

05:10:25.520 --> 05:10:30.049
gain support here what would be the charge the city is it

05:10:30.049 --> 05:10:31.759
just to copy and

05:10:31.759 --> 05:10:34.889
paste the responses and chair I'm asking me you

05:10:34.889 --> 05:10:36.639
specifically is that what you'd

05:10:36.639 --> 05:10:39.310
want to see the next 30 days what else would you want to

05:10:39.310 --> 05:10:40.560
see I'd like to see

05:10:40.560 --> 05:10:44.740
the comments pasted the definitions that we've talked about

05:10:44.740 --> 05:10:45.720
the clarification

05:10:45.720 --> 05:10:50.950
on the significant the phase one thoroughly research to

05:10:50.950 --> 05:10:52.279
make sure that

05:10:52.279 --> 05:10:56.709
that works because I think that's a huge glaring issue that

05:10:56.709 --> 05:10:58.119
I'm surprised I'm the

05:10:58.119 --> 05:11:01.150
only one that's brought that up and how that gets addressed

05:11:01.150 --> 05:11:03.799
at this late stage

05:11:03.799 --> 05:11:06.569
and then it'd be great if we could have a little bit of

05:11:06.569 --> 05:11:07.599
discussion on the

05:11:07.599 --> 05:11:12.360
process of how the alternative ESA thing would would work

05:11:12.360 --> 05:11:13.279
hopefully in 30 days

05:11:13.279 --> 05:11:16.520
there's an ability to sit down and talk about how does that

05:11:16.520 --> 05:11:17.680
actually work and

05:11:17.680 --> 05:11:20.799
get more streamlined those are the things that I would

05:11:20.799 --> 05:11:23.000
think it goes to city

05:11:23.000 --> 05:11:25.400
council then city council can decide how they're going to

05:11:25.400 --> 05:11:26.279
pay for some of these

05:11:26.279 --> 05:11:29.909
things or not but at least the process of the ordinance is

05:11:29.909 --> 05:11:32.479
very clean the

05:11:32.479 --> 05:11:35.729
problems with it are corrected the notifications to the

05:11:35.729 --> 05:11:37.479
general public are

05:11:37.479 --> 05:11:41.490
now out there people are aware of it and I think those are

05:11:41.490 --> 05:11:42.799
bare minimums of

05:11:42.799 --> 05:11:46.599
things that need to be addressed before it moves on and is

05:11:46.599 --> 05:11:47.240
more than likely

05:11:47.240 --> 05:11:49.759
adopted

05:11:52.680 --> 05:11:57.000
that's all Commissioner Ellis Commissioner Ellis thank you

05:11:57.000 --> 05:11:58.279
chair okay my concern is

05:11:58.279 --> 05:12:01.490
you know to delay this 30 days again puts this in perpetual

05:12:01.490 --> 05:12:02.400
purgatory and it

05:12:02.400 --> 05:12:05.919
goes nowhere I think it's what you stated before chair and

05:12:05.919 --> 05:12:06.479
it's with all

05:12:06.479 --> 05:12:09.279
due respect I think it's just philosophically a difference

05:12:09.279 --> 05:12:09.599
I don't

05:12:09.599 --> 05:12:12.259
think 30 days is going to change your mind at all because I

05:12:12.259 --> 05:12:13.240
do think that you

05:12:13.240 --> 05:12:16.450
want the ESA ordinance to go away and effectively be

05:12:16.450 --> 05:12:17.639
written be written and

05:12:17.639 --> 05:12:21.159
scrubbed all together so I don't think that's going to do

05:12:21.159 --> 05:12:21.759
anything I think

05:12:21.759 --> 05:12:25.049
that's just going to invite more confusion to these changes

05:12:25.049 --> 05:12:25.599
that are

05:12:25.599 --> 05:12:29.209
proposed and I'm not saying that your changes aren't valid

05:12:29.209 --> 05:12:30.319
like I've said many

05:12:30.319 --> 05:12:33.849
times the process I brought that up several weeks ago this

05:12:33.849 --> 05:12:35.319
phase one that we

05:12:35.319 --> 05:12:38.470
heard to today those are things that could be continued to

05:12:38.470 --> 05:12:39.520
be discussed with

05:12:39.520 --> 05:12:44.689
the rewrite but to delay this again I forecast that being

05:12:44.689 --> 05:12:46.159
then it's just going

05:12:46.159 --> 05:12:48.709
to be out there again and it's not going to move forward at

05:12:48.709 --> 05:12:50.020
all that's my

05:12:50.020 --> 05:12:51.900
concern I don't think that's going to make a difference I

05:12:51.900 --> 05:12:52.720
think City Council

05:12:52.720 --> 05:12:54.950
is going to get a clean version of this I don't I won't

05:12:54.950 --> 05:12:55.799
speak for Deborah but

05:12:55.799 --> 05:12:59.430
I'll let her speak I think she'll have that rewritten for

05:12:59.430 --> 05:13:00.799
them with our

05:13:00.799 --> 05:13:03.759
recommendations out of that spreadsheet form and that's

05:13:03.759 --> 05:13:05.000
what they'll be voting

05:13:05.000 --> 05:13:09.349
on so that's just my comments to the 30 days I'd love to

05:13:09.349 --> 05:13:10.400
take a vote on this and

05:13:10.400 --> 05:13:17.080
we'll see where it goes okay any other discussion

05:13:21.000 --> 05:13:23.220
with that and there is no further comment and I'll call the

05:13:23.220 --> 05:13:24.720
question and

05:13:24.720 --> 05:13:30.529
we will vote on the motion to approve with the conditions

05:13:30.529 --> 05:13:32.080
added by legal

05:13:34.240 --> 05:13:40.639
clarified by legal move forward by Commissioner Beck clear

05:13:44.639 --> 05:13:50.279
so we will call for a vote on the board

05:14:02.040 --> 05:14:10.939
the motion carries four to two that will move us to our

05:14:10.939 --> 05:14:13.919
project matrix

05:14:14.639 --> 05:14:22.159
just wanted to mention I know there's there's a couple of

05:14:22.159 --> 05:14:24.119
items on on the

05:14:24.119 --> 05:14:29.799
matrix that mentions what can be discussed at at work

05:14:29.799 --> 05:14:30.840
session that legal

05:14:30.840 --> 05:14:33.990
was going to provide a sort of an overview and one thing

05:14:33.990 --> 05:14:34.720
Victor and I

05:14:34.720 --> 05:14:38.169
talked about was setting it setting some time aside one as

05:14:38.169 --> 05:14:39.400
a group to kind of go

05:14:39.400 --> 05:14:43.540
over what you can and can't discuss but also the types of

05:14:43.540 --> 05:14:45.240
applications just to

05:14:45.240 --> 05:14:48.159
kind of refresh it so everybody everybody knows or new

05:14:48.159 --> 05:14:49.159
members are sort

05:14:49.159 --> 05:14:51.930
of aware of what's what what the duties are but then also

05:14:51.930 --> 05:14:53.119
scheduling some time

05:14:53.119 --> 05:14:56.020
individually with each of you just to answer any any

05:14:56.020 --> 05:14:58.240
questions and and go over

05:14:58.240 --> 05:15:01.000
a little bit more detail if you like so just wanted to to

05:15:01.000 --> 05:15:01.959
mention that offer

05:15:01.959 --> 05:15:05.680
offer that so we'll be contacting you in the in the near

05:15:05.680 --> 05:15:06.919
future within the next

05:15:06.919 --> 05:15:10.209
couple weeks to start to start scheduling some of those

05:15:10.209 --> 05:15:11.680
times the other

05:15:11.680 --> 05:15:14.330
thing I did want to mention because I know traffic you know

05:15:14.330 --> 05:15:15.599
has been a hot hot

05:15:15.599 --> 05:15:20.560
topic it always is and will continue to be so I did speak

05:15:20.560 --> 05:15:22.080
to Todd Estes our

05:15:22.080 --> 05:15:27.200
city engineer as well as pre-tem our traffic engineer there

05:15:27.200 --> 05:15:28.479
they're working

05:15:28.479 --> 05:15:32.040
on a number of different things what I've asked them to do

05:15:32.040 --> 05:15:33.560
is come hopefully

05:15:33.560 --> 05:15:37.650
in March worst case April to a work session and devote some

05:15:37.650 --> 05:15:38.439
time specifically

05:15:38.439 --> 05:15:43.200
to transportation so they can talk about the the impact fee

05:15:43.200 --> 05:15:45.479
CIP how projects make

05:15:45.479 --> 05:15:49.360
it to the CIP list from the impact fee and they can kind of

05:15:49.360 --> 05:15:50.119
explain and give

05:15:50.119 --> 05:15:52.959
everybody that that overview so everyone understands that

05:15:52.959 --> 05:15:54.159
but also where they're

05:15:54.159 --> 05:15:58.610
headed with with really creating a true thoroughfare plan

05:15:58.610 --> 05:16:00.279
that the mobility plan

05:16:00.279 --> 05:16:03.840
is part of bike plan this bike and pen plan is part of that

05:16:03.840 --> 05:16:05.000
I'm so start to

05:16:05.000 --> 05:16:07.819
look at it more in a holistic manner so as as you're up

05:16:07.819 --> 05:16:09.159
here making decisions

05:16:09.159 --> 05:16:11.470
you kind of have that have that that background and

05:16:11.470 --> 05:16:12.639
understanding at least

05:16:12.639 --> 05:16:15.310
where on the engineering side where they're headed with

05:16:15.310 --> 05:16:16.279
some of these things

05:16:16.279 --> 05:16:19.799
so just wanted to give that update and happy to bring any

05:16:19.799 --> 05:16:21.000
other things to you

05:16:21.000 --> 05:16:26.610
that you so desire Commissioner Roselle thank you chair I

05:16:26.610 --> 05:16:27.880
got the email I think

05:16:27.880 --> 05:16:31.090
we all did about the downtown implementation plan about

05:16:31.090 --> 05:16:31.599
form-based

05:16:31.599 --> 05:16:38.099
code I'm still curious about is that is that happening are

05:16:38.099 --> 05:16:39.200
we are we transition

05:16:39.200 --> 05:16:44.639
to form-based code downtown not not necessarily we're in

05:16:44.639 --> 05:16:46.040
the process now of

05:16:46.040 --> 05:16:51.040
looking at some design criteria specific some of this will

05:16:51.040 --> 05:16:52.319
be incorporated into

05:16:52.319 --> 05:16:56.119
the DDC rewrite what we're looking at right now though in

05:16:56.119 --> 05:16:57.200
sort of the short

05:16:57.200 --> 05:17:01.040
term is looking at some design criteria specifically for

05:17:01.040 --> 05:17:02.400
what we'll call call

05:17:02.400 --> 05:17:06.029
the core of the downtown kind of around around the the

05:17:06.029 --> 05:17:07.720
square and a few blocks

05:17:07.720 --> 05:17:14.599
off and then it's probably more of a hybrid I think

05:17:14.599 --> 05:17:16.479
personally I'm not a huge

05:17:16.479 --> 05:17:20.650
fan of a form-based it doesn't mean it's not great or doesn

05:17:20.650 --> 05:17:22.479
't work sometimes it

05:17:22.479 --> 05:17:27.430
can be challenging particularly in the built environment

05:17:27.430 --> 05:17:30.439
that we have downtown

05:17:30.439 --> 05:17:33.779
but I think will I think when you see where we're starting

05:17:33.779 --> 05:17:34.840
to head with some

05:17:34.840 --> 05:17:38.930
of these design criteria and least manual it'll it'll it'll

05:17:38.930 --> 05:17:39.880
easily paint

05:17:39.880 --> 05:17:44.470
that picture as far as the type of development rather than

05:17:44.470 --> 05:17:45.240
being so

05:17:45.240 --> 05:17:48.479
prescriptive of you know your your Florida Florida ceiling

05:17:48.479 --> 05:17:49.400
height can't be

05:17:49.400 --> 05:17:52.540
greater than 10 feet and then we get into situations where

05:17:52.540 --> 05:17:53.680
somebody needs 10

05:17:53.680 --> 05:17:56.439
and a half and they're they're going for a variance I don't

05:17:56.439 --> 05:17:57.439
want to get into that

05:17:57.439 --> 05:17:59.580
kind of that kind of situation at least that's not what I

05:17:59.580 --> 05:17:59.919
would I would

05:17:59.919 --> 05:18:03.020
recommend so we are in the process of actually now we're

05:18:03.020 --> 05:18:04.159
working on that so

05:18:04.159 --> 05:18:07.200
that'll be another item that will be that will be brought

05:18:07.200 --> 05:18:07.959
forward to you

05:18:07.959 --> 05:18:12.680
perfect thank you Commissioner Ellis thank you chair not

05:18:12.680 --> 05:18:13.119
really for the

05:18:13.119 --> 05:18:16.729
matrix but I just wanted to take the opportunity to mention

05:18:16.729 --> 05:18:17.799
that the oak

05:18:17.799 --> 05:18:21.009
gateway plan small area plan committee that we're on is

05:18:21.009 --> 05:18:22.759
tomorrow at Calhoun

05:18:22.759 --> 05:18:26.139
from 6 to 730 it's for the stations will be set up to have

05:18:26.139 --> 05:18:28.000
public input so please

05:18:28.000 --> 05:18:31.610
if you want to come and give your input that to that area

05:18:31.610 --> 05:18:33.000
know anyone pass along

05:18:33.000 --> 05:18:35.040
the word it's going to be set up really well by the

05:18:35.040 --> 05:18:36.240
consultants and it's super

05:18:36.240 --> 05:18:39.049
important and it's going really well so this is our first

05:18:39.049 --> 05:18:40.400
opportunity for public

05:18:40.400 --> 05:18:46.119
comment so 6 to 730 tomorrow Calhoun thanks for the

05:18:46.119 --> 05:18:48.119
reminder with that I don't

05:18:48.119 --> 05:18:53.689
see any other items so at 943 we'll close our meeting

05:18:53.689 --> 05:18:55.479
tonight thank you

05:18:55.479 --> 05:18:57.880
everyone