1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,950 meeting for February 21st 2018. This meeting has been duly 2 00:00:04,950 --> 00:00:05,759 posted and we do 3 00:00:05,759 --> 00:00:10,359 have a quorum present. Now we'll call us to order at 4 0 5. 4 00:00:10,359 --> 00:00:12,080 Our first order of 5 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:16,879 business will be to receive clarification of agenda items. 6 00:00:16,879 --> 00:00:17,839 Does 7 00:00:17,839 --> 00:00:27,719 anybody have a question on the minutes? Any changes? 8 00:00:27,719 --> 00:00:36,119 Okay, how about the consent agenda? 9 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:45,549 Okay, that's Shandrin. Shandrin, will you come forward? We 10 00:00:45,549 --> 00:00:45,799 've got a 11 00:00:45,799 --> 00:00:54,520 question on the consent agenda item A. Commissioner Ellis. 12 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:55,359 Thank you chair. Hi 13 00:00:55,359 --> 00:00:58,570 Shandrin. Hey just real quick clarification. It's divided 14 00:00:58,570 --> 00:01:00,280 in two. Is it 15 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,709 one development and they're platting it? There's one owner 16 00:01:04,709 --> 00:01:05,560 for the two lots. 17 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,769 Okay. But they're currently developing only one lot at this 18 00:01:08,769 --> 00:01:10,959 time. And that's the one we 19 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,290 heard I think right when we did the rezone there I think? I 20 00:01:15,290 --> 00:01:16,959 can't recall the 21 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,569 rezoning request at this moment but it's likely that that's 22 00:01:20,569 --> 00:01:21,400 you only heard that 23 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,450 portion. Okay and it's lot one is the one they're 24 00:01:24,450 --> 00:01:26,079 developing or lot two? The 25 00:01:26,079 --> 00:01:29,459 applicant is actually here. Do you mind answering that 26 00:01:29,459 --> 00:01:31,599 question? It's it's it's 27 00:01:31,599 --> 00:01:35,400 lot one block A. Okay, okay. That's effectively what I 28 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:36,200 thought but I just want to 29 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:45,799 clarify. Thank you. Anybody else? Anybody else have a 30 00:01:45,799 --> 00:01:46,760 question on this item? 31 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:51,640 Mr. Sanchez? Okay. 32 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,189 Just kind of an announcement for both here in our work 33 00:01:59,189 --> 00:02:01,519 session and for our 34 00:02:01,519 --> 00:02:05,640 public meeting at 630. The item for individual 35 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,120 consideration, the criteria 36 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:14,189 manual changes for drainage and transportation. Those have 37 00:02:14,189 --> 00:02:14,840 been delayed 38 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:20,280 and will be coming back for work session and and then 39 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:21,800 presentation and voting on 40 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:29,960 for March the 7th. That will take us to public hearings 41 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:34,479 section. Item A, that'd be 42 00:02:34,479 --> 00:02:37,080 Ron. 43 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:53,000 Thank you chair, members of the Commission. This item is 44 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,560 for a rezoning 45 00:02:54,560 --> 00:03:01,189 of a property located on University Drive about 1,500 feet 46 00:03:01,189 --> 00:03:03,319 west of I-35. The 47 00:03:03,319 --> 00:03:07,900 proposed zoning is to go from NR2, neighborhood residential 48 00:03:07,900 --> 00:03:09,400 2, to RCCD, 49 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:14,210 regional center commercial downtown of approximately 88.7 50 00:03:14,210 --> 00:03:16,400 acres. It's the old 51 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,090 former location of the Selwyn school site. So the property 52 00:03:20,090 --> 00:03:21,319 owner has obtained 53 00:03:21,319 --> 00:03:26,680 or acquired the property and is looking to rezone as such. 54 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:28,719 The future land use 55 00:03:28,719 --> 00:03:34,620 map as shown identifies the area of as of having two future 56 00:03:34,620 --> 00:03:36,439 land designation. One 57 00:03:36,439 --> 00:03:40,610 is business innovation, which business innovation is 58 00:03:40,610 --> 00:03:42,879 intended to develop large 59 00:03:42,879 --> 00:03:47,120 track well-planned corporate employment park type 60 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,039 developments with supporting 61 00:03:49,039 --> 00:03:52,750 uses such as retail, hotels, and residential units. Primary 62 00:03:52,750 --> 00:03:54,120 uses include 63 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,969 office, research, development, and light manufacturing. The 64 00:03:57,969 --> 00:03:59,479 property also has a 65 00:03:59,479 --> 00:04:02,150 future land use designation of industrial commerce, which 66 00:04:02,150 --> 00:04:03,759 is further south or the 67 00:04:03,759 --> 00:04:06,330 southern portion of the property. And that industrial 68 00:04:06,330 --> 00:04:07,479 commerce is intended to 69 00:04:07,479 --> 00:04:12,060 be predominantly for both high or heavy and light 70 00:04:12,060 --> 00:04:14,960 manufacturing with wholesale 71 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:20,129 and distribution uses as well. So this slide here 72 00:04:20,129 --> 00:04:22,399 illustrates what the proposed 73 00:04:22,399 --> 00:04:28,040 zoning is. Obviously currently it's NR2. NR2 is primarily a 74 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:28,839 residential zoning 75 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:33,269 district which allows two units per acre. The proposed 76 00:04:33,269 --> 00:04:35,879 zoning RCCD allows for more 77 00:04:35,879 --> 00:04:40,829 mixed-use type uses, which is consistent with the future 78 00:04:40,829 --> 00:04:42,160 land use designation of 79 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,889 business innovation. Hey Ron, can you go back to that slide 80 00:04:45,889 --> 00:04:48,920 ? Was there an 81 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:50,860 opportunity to reach out to I guess what might be a 82 00:04:50,860 --> 00:04:52,120 separate property owner for 83 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,319 the little piece of NR2 that's going to be left out to see 84 00:04:55,319 --> 00:04:56,199 if they wanted to be 85 00:04:56,199 --> 00:05:01,240 rezoned also? We asked the applicant and I'll leave that to 86 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:01,839 the applicant to 87 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,639 respond to. We weren't able to get that property owner to 88 00:05:05,639 --> 00:05:06,879 come forward. 89 00:05:06,879 --> 00:05:16,199 Thank you. Just a quick compatibility research of the area. 90 00:05:16,199 --> 00:05:18,480 To the north west 91 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:24,550 is NR2, single-family. There's an established development 92 00:05:24,550 --> 00:05:25,560 there, large lot 93 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:31,079 development. To the north east is RCCD with commercial and 94 00:05:31,079 --> 00:05:31,879 industrial uses 95 00:05:31,879 --> 00:05:38,040 along I-35 just east of the railroad tracks. To the east 96 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:39,000 and south is 97 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:44,319 primarily undeveloped with ICE, industrial center 98 00:05:44,319 --> 00:05:45,000 employment. 99 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:50,720 And then to the west is ICG, primarily office building, the 100 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,040 Westgate Business 101 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,129 Park. It's supposed to be here but the aerial didn't pick 102 00:05:55,129 --> 00:05:56,000 it up so that's 103 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,959 the general location. There's also gas well on the western 104 00:06:00,959 --> 00:06:02,439 boundary right here. 105 00:06:02,439 --> 00:06:05,959 It's also important to note that there is also a gas well 106 00:06:05,959 --> 00:06:07,259 within the subject 107 00:06:07,259 --> 00:06:11,730 site itself. So in this general location. Commissioner Beck 108 00:06:11,730 --> 00:06:15,040 . Thank you Chair. ICG 109 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,180 states that it's an area where they can build professional 110 00:06:19,180 --> 00:06:20,480 offices and I think 111 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:25,500 this RCCD pretty much says the same thing. I think what 112 00:06:25,500 --> 00:06:27,439 this is it's zone ICG 113 00:06:27,439 --> 00:06:31,000 but there are professional offices currently. This is more 114 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:31,639 of an existing 115 00:06:31,639 --> 00:06:34,850 use is what's on the ground currently. Okay. So I'll double 116 00:06:34,850 --> 00:06:36,279 check if ICG permits 117 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:43,769 offices but this slide here was to illustrate that the Den 118 00:06:43,769 --> 00:06:45,240 Wise realtor 119 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,939 office building is here and there are some offices in this 120 00:06:48,939 --> 00:06:49,800 general vicinity to 121 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,740 west. Okay we didn't have anything to compare RCCD with ICG 122 00:06:53,740 --> 00:06:54,839 so can you just 123 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:59,680 roughly briefly tell us what can be built on ICG? Sure I 124 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:00,439 can do it. I don't have it 125 00:07:00,439 --> 00:07:05,000 with me but we can go get right now. 126 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:14,310 So ICG is your your heaviest industrial or heaviest dense 127 00:07:14,310 --> 00:07:15,800 intensity type land or 128 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:27,399 zoning district. ICG permits you know heavy manufacturing 129 00:07:27,399 --> 00:07:29,639 with an SUP. There's 130 00:07:29,639 --> 00:07:32,490 light manufacturing that's permitted. We have well 131 00:07:32,490 --> 00:07:33,879 warehouse retail that's 132 00:07:33,879 --> 00:07:38,399 permitted with this SUP. As far as offices it's also 133 00:07:38,399 --> 00:07:43,560 permitted in ICG. Offices are 134 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:49,439 permitted in the ICG. Retail is permitted as long as it's 135 00:07:49,439 --> 00:07:50,959 part of a gas station or 136 00:07:50,959 --> 00:07:57,920 quick vehicle service use. Let's see here motels are not or 137 00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:58,680 hotels are not 138 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:04,410 permitted. Obviously a lot of the residential uses are not 139 00:08:04,410 --> 00:08:04,920 permitted in 140 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:17,360 ICG. Okay thank you. So staff did an analysis of course of 141 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:18,839 the zoning request 142 00:08:18,839 --> 00:08:23,459 and it is a large piece of property. It's currently planted 143 00:08:23,459 --> 00:08:24,959 as lot one of the 144 00:08:24,959 --> 00:08:30,240 Selwyn School addition. NR2 current zoning district is not 145 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:31,379 consistent or is 146 00:08:31,379 --> 00:08:34,940 inconsistent with the future land use primarily because it 147 00:08:34,940 --> 00:08:35,919 's residential 148 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:40,120 zoning. However the RCCD is a more suitable more 149 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:41,039 appropriate zoning 150 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:43,590 district that's consistent with the future land use 151 00:08:43,590 --> 00:08:44,879 designation and again it 152 00:08:44,879 --> 00:08:48,970 allows for the intent of the business innovation which is 153 00:08:48,970 --> 00:08:49,720 mixed use 154 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:54,320 development, offices, retail and that sort. Also any future 155 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:56,539 development that is to 156 00:08:56,539 --> 00:09:01,519 be built south or east of the development or even west will 157 00:09:01,519 --> 00:09:04,200 have to be 158 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,120 comply with that is with the buffering and screening 159 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:12,919 requirements of the DDC. So 160 00:09:12,919 --> 00:09:15,830 here's the RCCD. I went through this really quickly. 161 00:09:15,830 --> 00:09:16,720 Professional offices are 162 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:21,000 permitted. Research facilities, light manufacturing, retail 163 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:22,220 warehouse with a 164 00:09:22,220 --> 00:09:26,309 limitation of trade school is also permitted. Multi-family 165 00:09:26,309 --> 00:09:27,320 is permitted with 166 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,960 a specific use permit or if it's part of a mixed use 167 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,879 development. So you can see 168 00:09:31,879 --> 00:09:35,990 that these uses as it is compared to a business innovation 169 00:09:35,990 --> 00:09:37,200 it fits with what 170 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,830 the future land use designation is stating should be. So 171 00:09:40,830 --> 00:09:43,840 with that staff is 172 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:49,490 also looking at the mobility plan in the in regards of 173 00:09:49,490 --> 00:09:50,720 where this 174 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,389 development will access will be accessed and that's 175 00:09:53,389 --> 00:09:55,200 primarily on University Drive 176 00:09:55,200 --> 00:10:00,429 380. As we all know 380 is a primary arterial. It's a six 177 00:10:00,429 --> 00:10:02,200 lane with a 135 foot 178 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,919 right away. It will have the capacity to handle any 179 00:10:06,919 --> 00:10:08,320 development that comes into 180 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,250 this development as far as mixed use development or that 181 00:10:12,250 --> 00:10:16,039 sort of type of uses. 182 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:21,029 Staff did send out notification. This was first published 183 00:10:21,029 --> 00:10:22,559 back in November of last 184 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:27,139 year and as you all know this item has been continued for 185 00:10:27,139 --> 00:10:28,759 some time and the 186 00:10:28,759 --> 00:10:33,480 reason for that is the applicant had made several attempts 187 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:34,799 to meet with the 188 00:10:34,799 --> 00:10:39,240 razor company. The razor company received the notice and 189 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,440 submitted a response in 190 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:46,909 opposition and that because they own primarily most of the 191 00:10:46,909 --> 00:10:47,840 area approximately 192 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:54,919 60% they are going to trigger or require that the City 193 00:10:54,919 --> 00:10:57,480 Council have in favor of 194 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,639 this rezoning would have to have a super majority. 195 00:11:01,639 --> 00:11:03,799 Commissioner Ellis. Thank you 196 00:11:03,799 --> 00:11:07,259 Chair. I noticed on the notification from razor that they 197 00:11:07,259 --> 00:11:08,200 were opposed to it but 198 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,970 there is no reason. Do we know? I have not had the 199 00:11:12,970 --> 00:11:15,279 opportunity to talk to the razor 200 00:11:15,279 --> 00:11:19,059 company but I do know that the applicant has had maybe one 201 00:11:19,059 --> 00:11:20,519 or two meetings with 202 00:11:20,519 --> 00:11:24,409 the representative and they may be able to provide that 203 00:11:24,409 --> 00:11:25,799 information to the 204 00:11:25,799 --> 00:11:29,480 Commission during the public hearing. Commissioner Beck. 205 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,360 Thanks Chair. To answer 206 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:37,009 that I did personally call the guy on this and his concern 207 00:11:37,009 --> 00:11:38,759 is that he didn't 208 00:11:38,759 --> 00:11:41,250 feel this zoning was going to be appropriate for all the 209 00:11:41,250 --> 00:11:42,240 industrial uses 210 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,919 in there. In fact he was sure that nobody would want to 211 00:11:45,919 --> 00:11:48,639 come into the ICE areas 212 00:11:48,639 --> 00:11:53,090 next to it because of the type of development he wanted to 213 00:11:53,090 --> 00:11:54,360 do. So that's 214 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:59,200 I'm not gonna speak for him and I said he actually said he 215 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:00,759 saw a concept plan 216 00:12:00,759 --> 00:12:03,639 from the developer. I said oh well that's more than we've 217 00:12:03,639 --> 00:12:05,080 got and would he be 218 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,659 willing to share that and he said he would. Said he'd send 219 00:12:07,659 --> 00:12:08,559 me an email on it 220 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,580 and I invited him to come to the public meeting and I he 221 00:12:11,580 --> 00:12:13,080 forgot there was even 222 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,309 gonna be a public meeting night even though he received the 223 00:12:15,309 --> 00:12:15,840 deal so I don't 224 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,129 know what's gonna go on there but he just felt like the 225 00:12:18,129 --> 00:12:18,840 zoning wasn't 226 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,720 appropriate for that area. Basically that's it. That it was 227 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:22,360 gonna have a negative 228 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:31,200 impact on their property that is something differently. For 229 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:31,240 what it's worth. Okay. With 230 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,399 staff's analysis staff is recommending approval of the 231 00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:36,200 zoning change request 232 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:41,470 as it conforms with the criteria with in the DDC as well as 233 00:12:41,470 --> 00:12:43,440 the DEM plan 2030. 234 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,649 Commissioner Rozelle. Thank you Chair. First of all that's 235 00:12:46,649 --> 00:12:47,519 the first time I've 236 00:12:47,519 --> 00:12:51,450 seen the new sign. It looks good. It looks bigger and more 237 00:12:51,450 --> 00:12:53,120 established so much 238 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,879 bigger. That's a good thing so well done on that. I haven't 239 00:12:56,879 --> 00:12:57,720 turned out to see that 240 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:02,950 sign so that's awesome. More to the point there was at one 241 00:13:02,950 --> 00:13:04,200 point a deed or title 242 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,190 restriction on this land to be a school or revert back to 243 00:13:07,190 --> 00:13:08,759 didn't ISD if someone 244 00:13:08,759 --> 00:13:11,200 lost it. Has that been resolved or is that even a matter 245 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,759 that we should. I don't 246 00:13:13,759 --> 00:13:17,840 think that's something we can consider. I mean if you want 247 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:18,039 further 248 00:13:18,039 --> 00:13:20,720 clarification the applicant may be able to fill you in but 249 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:21,720 as far as the zoning. 250 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,840 Yeah data restrictions don't. That's nothing that we would 251 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:25,960 address at this 252 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:32,080 commission. Thanks. Good question. Commissioner Back. Thank 253 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:33,320 you Chair. On our 254 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:37,409 backup material on I guess it's first page at the bottom it 255 00:13:37,409 --> 00:13:38,480 says there's an 256 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,629 existing 10-inch public sewer main on the property which 257 00:13:41,629 --> 00:13:42,919 cannot be encroached 258 00:13:42,919 --> 00:13:45,620 upon by trees or buildings. Can you show us on the map 259 00:13:45,620 --> 00:13:47,039 where that is because it 260 00:13:47,039 --> 00:13:51,830 didn't give any indication where. Yeah I don't have a good 261 00:13:51,830 --> 00:13:52,919 map that showed that. 262 00:13:52,919 --> 00:13:55,639 Let me go back to the area. You can get us in the ballpark. 263 00:13:55,639 --> 00:13:56,720 Yeah here we go. I 264 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:01,019 believe the sewer line comes south here and then heads west 265 00:14:01,019 --> 00:14:02,039 in this general 266 00:14:02,039 --> 00:14:05,669 vicinity makes its way up and then over again in this 267 00:14:05,669 --> 00:14:07,559 direction. So it's probably 268 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,279 so the area I'm sorry to cut you off there the the area 269 00:14:10,279 --> 00:14:11,240 that we're talking 270 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,120 about if there's an existing I mean sewer line then there 271 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:14,679 has to be an 272 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,559 easement they just can't build or plant trees within that 273 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:20,600 easement. Okay okay. 274 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,440 Got you. Thank you. 275 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:34,960 Any other questions for Ron? Okay thank you. 276 00:14:35,039 --> 00:14:54,450 We'll move us to item B. Haley. All right this is case Z 18 277 00:14:54,450 --> 00:14:56,200 -1 the Razor 278 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,629 Ranch Marketplace residential development. As just an 279 00:15:00,629 --> 00:15:01,639 overview the 280 00:15:01,639 --> 00:15:05,409 entire area outlined in black is the 410 acres that compr 281 00:15:05,409 --> 00:15:06,360 ise the Razor Ranch 282 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,919 Overlay District. That's been in place since 2007. The 283 00:15:10,919 --> 00:15:11,960 subject property is a 284 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,720 subset of that it's the area outlined here in yellow and it 285 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,080 's about 40 acres 286 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,580 just north of the Walmart and Academy that exists at the 287 00:15:19,580 --> 00:15:20,200 Razor Ranch 288 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,220 Marketplace. The request before us tonight is to consider 289 00:15:24,220 --> 00:15:24,720 an amendment to 290 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,559 the overlay district standards to provide development 291 00:15:27,559 --> 00:15:28,320 standards and 292 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,559 criteria for residential development within that 40 acres. 293 00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:33,960 It's just a little 294 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:38,039 bit more background Razor Ranch is comprised of two general 295 00:15:38,039 --> 00:15:38,519 areas the 296 00:15:38,519 --> 00:15:41,399 north side of 380 being the marketplace the southern side 297 00:15:41,399 --> 00:15:42,519 being the south campus 298 00:15:42,519 --> 00:15:45,470 that consists of the town center and other mixed-use 299 00:15:45,470 --> 00:15:47,600 development. Within the 300 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,490 marketplace it's further subdivided into three general 301 00:15:50,490 --> 00:15:52,480 areas. RR2 being the 302 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:57,610 area located at Bonnie Bray and 380. RR3 being some of the 303 00:15:57,610 --> 00:15:59,000 larger bigger box 304 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,419 stores on the I'm sorry on the western side of the property 305 00:16:02,419 --> 00:16:04,240 . Both of those areas 306 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,210 have standards that have been in place since roughly 2010. 307 00:16:08,210 --> 00:16:09,519 That's exhibit C D 308 00:16:09,519 --> 00:16:13,519 and E of the overlay itself and then the third area would 309 00:16:13,519 --> 00:16:14,740 be the residential so 310 00:16:14,740 --> 00:16:17,100 the area that we're looking at tonight which up to this 311 00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:17,879 point has had no 312 00:16:17,879 --> 00:16:23,750 development standards put in place for it. This 40 acres 313 00:16:23,750 --> 00:16:24,840 has a split zoning 314 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,879 about 16 acres on the north side is zoned in R3 the 315 00:16:27,879 --> 00:16:29,519 remaining 24 acres is 316 00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:34,690 zoned in our MU 12. To kind of delve into what they 317 00:16:34,690 --> 00:16:36,159 presented the standards that 318 00:16:36,159 --> 00:16:39,389 they're proposed were provided in your backup but in 319 00:16:39,389 --> 00:16:40,840 general what they're 320 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:44,759 proposing for the NR 3 area they're proposing to limit the 321 00:16:44,759 --> 00:16:46,039 permitted uses to 322 00:16:46,039 --> 00:16:50,519 single-family detached dwellings. The NRMU 12 portion they 323 00:16:50,519 --> 00:16:51,399 would allow 324 00:16:51,399 --> 00:16:54,389 single-family attached single-family or town homes or what 325 00:16:54,389 --> 00:16:57,240 they call big houses. 326 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,610 Commissioner Ellis. Thank you chair. Okay on that note big 327 00:17:00,610 --> 00:17:01,600 houses since that's the 328 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,619 first time I've heard that term and I know it's defined 329 00:17:04,619 --> 00:17:06,359 later on. Do we have 330 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,470 any of those in the city currently? No it's a unique use 331 00:17:09,470 --> 00:17:10,720 that Razor defined in 332 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,440 the overlay. It's essentially multifamily that would look 333 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:14,279 like a large home from 334 00:17:14,279 --> 00:17:18,519 the outside is what that would boil down to. So that is 335 00:17:18,519 --> 00:17:20,680 their definition? Yes it's 336 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,240 correct. I believe it's a concept they saw in another part 337 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:23,880 of the country the 338 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,400 developer did and he just thought it would be a unique idea 339 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:27,039 if they could 340 00:17:27,039 --> 00:17:28,920 find a place to incorporate it they just wanted to make 341 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:29,519 that available. 342 00:17:29,519 --> 00:17:34,470 Understood okay thank you. I do want to point out here on 343 00:17:34,470 --> 00:17:36,299 what was appendix one 344 00:17:36,299 --> 00:17:39,359 to the standards they provided the area shaded in gray is 345 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:40,279 within the NRMU 346 00:17:40,279 --> 00:17:44,089 12 zoning district they're proposing to develop that under 347 00:17:44,089 --> 00:17:45,119 the standards for NR3 348 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,410 so that single-family abut single-family since there is an 349 00:17:48,410 --> 00:17:48,799 existing 350 00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:52,089 subdivision to the north. So the single-family homes would 351 00:17:52,089 --> 00:17:52,880 be in the area 352 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,960 that's NR3 plus this it's roughly three and a half to four 353 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:57,839 acres that's NRMU 12. 354 00:17:57,839 --> 00:18:02,289 Within the entire area they would request that amenity and 355 00:18:02,289 --> 00:18:03,319 amenity center 356 00:18:03,319 --> 00:18:07,279 and then accessory structures be permitted throughout for 357 00:18:07,279 --> 00:18:08,480 the residents. 358 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:12,200 Commissioner back. Thank you chair. Is there going to be a 359 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,200 distinct barrier 360 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:19,839 between NRMU 12 and the NR3? No sir I believe they have a 361 00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:20,640 concept plan that 362 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,200 they are willing to share tonight during the public hearing 363 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:23,960 but from what I've 364 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,220 seen other than a street there wouldn't be any physical 365 00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:27,359 separation there. Okay 366 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:35,130 thanks. So exhibit C4 which was provided really breaks down 367 00:18:35,130 --> 00:18:35,480 all of the 368 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,369 development standards they're proposing so I just wanted to 369 00:18:37,369 --> 00:18:38,039 hit some of the high 370 00:18:38,039 --> 00:18:41,670 points of that. They're providing standards for site design 371 00:18:41,670 --> 00:18:42,200 architecture 372 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:45,190 landscaping parking all the major components of a 373 00:18:45,190 --> 00:18:46,839 residential development. 374 00:18:46,839 --> 00:18:49,490 One of the key features on the southern side they are 375 00:18:49,490 --> 00:18:50,799 trying to create more of 376 00:18:50,799 --> 00:18:53,450 an urban feel so you'll notice some reduced setbacks are 377 00:18:53,450 --> 00:18:54,240 proposed for these 378 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:58,049 townhomes to make it more compact and walkable. They are 379 00:18:58,049 --> 00:18:59,279 requiring a high 380 00:18:59,279 --> 00:19:02,269 amount of architectural diversity so it wouldn't you know 381 00:19:02,269 --> 00:19:03,319 no more than so many 382 00:19:03,319 --> 00:19:05,960 of the houses could look the same within a certain spacing. 383 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:07,200 A lot of architectural 384 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,720 details are required and changes in building materials. 385 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:10,640 They do have a 386 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,450 minimum of 80% masonry proposed for all elevations and to 387 00:19:14,450 --> 00:19:15,880 be consistent with the 388 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,109 rest of the overlay you know they're really encouraging the 389 00:19:18,109 --> 00:19:18,779 stone materials 390 00:19:18,779 --> 00:19:20,740 and the neutral color palette that's found throughout the 391 00:19:20,740 --> 00:19:21,920 rest of Razor Ranch 392 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,640 and I did want to point out before the meeting they... 393 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,599 Commissioner Sanchez. You mentioned that 394 00:19:28,599 --> 00:19:31,200 the reduced setbacks would allow buildings to be brought 395 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:31,680 closer to the 396 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,930 street. Is that a special consideration we're giving to 397 00:19:35,930 --> 00:19:37,480 them on this to allow 398 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,579 them to bring the buildings closer? Would we allow that any 399 00:19:41,579 --> 00:19:42,400 place else? Yeah it would be 400 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,839 unique to the overlay district and to these standards. 401 00:19:44,839 --> 00:19:46,480 Within NRMU 12 there are 402 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:50,640 I believe it's a six foot six foot side yards ten foot 403 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,680 front yard city wide 404 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,400 within the overlay they're they're wishing to create more 405 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:57,319 unique standards 406 00:19:57,319 --> 00:19:59,559 for themselves to create that urban environment that they 407 00:19:59,559 --> 00:20:01,119 're going for. But 408 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:07,430 that would be unique to this 40 acres. So I provided you a 409 00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:08,759 copy of this revised 410 00:20:08,759 --> 00:20:11,970 exhibit or appendix two that was provided to me shortly 411 00:20:11,970 --> 00:20:12,640 before the meeting. 412 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,269 What they were clarifying on this the only change is that a 413 00:20:16,269 --> 00:20:17,359 green space has 414 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,460 been called out throughout the center of the property. They 415 00:20:19,460 --> 00:20:20,559 wanted to clarify that 416 00:20:20,559 --> 00:20:23,930 attached single-family wouldn't be encroaching into that in 417 00:20:23,930 --> 00:20:24,519 our three 418 00:20:24,519 --> 00:20:26,750 zoning district that would actually be green space in the 419 00:20:26,750 --> 00:20:27,240 center of the 420 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:34,240 property. So looking at this a little more broadly the 421 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:35,200 future land use for the 422 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,119 area is moderate residential so that's the four to twelve 423 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:38,920 units per acre 424 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:41,970 promotes a mixture of housing types to provide a transition 425 00:20:41,970 --> 00:20:43,059 between commercial 426 00:20:43,059 --> 00:20:47,140 areas and establish single-family neighborhoods. In general 427 00:20:47,140 --> 00:20:47,960 this proposal 428 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,380 does provide that they're providing a and actually a very 429 00:20:50,380 --> 00:20:51,359 stark transition from 430 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,569 commercial to townhomes or more dense residential to single 431 00:20:54,569 --> 00:20:55,640 -family to make it 432 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,319 more compatible with the surrounding neighborhoods. So 433 00:20:59,319 --> 00:21:01,079 staff did find that the 434 00:21:01,079 --> 00:21:03,509 proposed design and development standards are consistent 435 00:21:03,509 --> 00:21:04,119 with both the 436 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,500 base zoning and with the remainder of the razor ranch 437 00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:08,960 overlay district. Their 438 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,259 design and development standards are much stricter than 439 00:21:11,259 --> 00:21:12,319 what the city has in 440 00:21:12,319 --> 00:21:16,119 place citywide in the DDC for single-family development. It 441 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:17,039 does conform 442 00:21:17,039 --> 00:21:19,799 with the density and the overall character that's promoted 443 00:21:19,799 --> 00:21:20,519 by that future 444 00:21:20,519 --> 00:21:23,250 land use designation of moderate residential and it is 445 00:21:23,250 --> 00:21:24,240 providing a logical 446 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,079 transition as I mentioned. So going from the the large 447 00:21:27,079 --> 00:21:28,240 commercial development at 448 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:31,039 the market marketplace to more dense residential and then 449 00:21:31,039 --> 00:21:31,920 slowly into that 450 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:37,519 detached single-family under NR3. Notifications were sent 451 00:21:37,519 --> 00:21:37,859 about the 452 00:21:37,859 --> 00:21:42,289 request. I received no response forms to that. What I did 453 00:21:42,289 --> 00:21:43,119 receive were several 454 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,670 inquiries and I made copies of those email exchanges and 455 00:21:45,670 --> 00:21:46,680 provided those to you 456 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,910 so that you could see the types of questions that had been 457 00:21:48,910 --> 00:21:49,440 raised by the 458 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:55,509 community. Haley on on the emails that were sent I just was 459 00:21:55,509 --> 00:21:56,000 reading through 460 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,299 those there's really no opinion expressed in any of them so 461 00:21:59,299 --> 00:21:59,680 they don't 462 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,519 say where they're for it against it. Exactly yeah so yes as 463 00:22:03,519 --> 00:22:04,440 I said you know 464 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,410 no formal responses just some general inquiries but I just 465 00:22:07,410 --> 00:22:08,200 wanted to make you 466 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,670 all aware of the type of feedback that we had received for 467 00:22:12,670 --> 00:22:14,519 this. So with that 468 00:22:14,519 --> 00:22:16,809 staff is recommending approval of the request because of 469 00:22:16,809 --> 00:22:17,839 its compatibility and 470 00:22:17,839 --> 00:22:21,160 consistency with the denim plan. Commissioner Ellis. Thank 471 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,400 You Chair. Haley I 472 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,440 had a question with the document itself with regard to the 473 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:26,839 fencing. It does 474 00:22:26,839 --> 00:22:30,450 mention in their fencing for the single-family sites it 475 00:22:30,450 --> 00:22:31,559 does not mention 476 00:22:31,559 --> 00:22:37,759 anything about fencing standards for the multifam side. 477 00:22:37,759 --> 00:22:38,200 Some was 478 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,640 confused. For the town home side is that what you're inqu 479 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,519 iring about? Right. Within the overlay 480 00:22:43,519 --> 00:22:47,039 district itself when when the marketplace was created it 481 00:22:47,039 --> 00:22:48,359 calls for a fence to be 482 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,420 provided between the commercial development and this area 483 00:22:51,420 --> 00:22:51,960 so that's 484 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,000 already provided. It's already accounted for. Okay very 485 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,160 good thank you. Commissioner Smith. 486 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,279 Thank you Chair. I think whenever we get to site plan if we 487 00:23:01,279 --> 00:23:02,319 get this approved is 488 00:23:02,319 --> 00:23:04,369 probably a better question but just looking at this looking 489 00:23:04,369 --> 00:23:05,039 at the site map 490 00:23:05,039 --> 00:23:08,599 itself is moat was there do they give any indication of 491 00:23:08,599 --> 00:23:09,799 what their mobility 492 00:23:09,799 --> 00:23:14,079 plan was going to be for that? Is Augusta going to continue 493 00:23:14,079 --> 00:23:14,839 through? What's the 494 00:23:14,839 --> 00:23:19,619 accessibility roadwise into there? Certainly. Like I said I 495 00:23:19,619 --> 00:23:20,279 believe they'll 496 00:23:20,279 --> 00:23:23,640 have the concept plan available this evening at the public 497 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:24,380 hearing but 498 00:23:24,380 --> 00:23:26,500 Augusta my understanding is that it would continue through 499 00:23:26,500 --> 00:23:27,079 and then there 500 00:23:27,079 --> 00:23:29,829 would be kind of a split here and with a couple of separate 501 00:23:29,829 --> 00:23:30,759 roads going this way. 502 00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:33,349 I think they're planning alleyways for the town homes to 503 00:23:33,349 --> 00:23:34,200 have rear garage 504 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,359 access and then I believe it is one point of entry off of 505 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:38,480 Bonnie Bray as well. 506 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:43,710 Okay got it. So they're gonna be your net though? Yes. One 507 00:23:43,710 --> 00:23:44,000 other thing 508 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:49,119 there's that pond that's on the south side of the NRMU 12 509 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,539 zoning area. Is there any ESA issues? No that's actually a 510 00:23:52,539 --> 00:23:53,559 detention pond designed 511 00:23:53,559 --> 00:23:56,599 specifically for this area of Razor Ranch. Thank you. 512 00:23:56,599 --> 00:23:57,680 Commissioner Bet. 513 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,970 Thank you Chair. I'm glad you asked that question. That was 514 00:24:00,970 --> 00:24:02,640 part of my question. So 515 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,250 parking on streets and I mean if we you said we had a 10- 516 00:24:06,250 --> 00:24:07,599 foot setback from the 517 00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:12,240 street is that correct? Under NRMU 12 elsewhere in the city 518 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:13,240 there would be a 519 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,930 front yard setback I believe it's 10 feet. Okay. Is it from 520 00:24:15,930 --> 00:24:16,640 the street or the 521 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,950 right-of-way? It'd be from the right-of-way so you'll have 522 00:24:19,950 --> 00:24:21,359 this difference between 523 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,289 the back of the curb, the grass strip, sidewalk, and the 524 00:24:24,289 --> 00:24:25,920 right-of-way and then 10 feet. 525 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,650 Okay. And what they're proposing you know that they 526 00:24:28,650 --> 00:24:29,799 reference a zero foot setback 527 00:24:29,799 --> 00:24:31,839 but they are proposing sidewalks along all the streets that 528 00:24:31,839 --> 00:24:32,440 would meet city 529 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,069 standards so there would be sidewalk and landscaping. Some 530 00:24:36,069 --> 00:24:37,240 street parking is 531 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,880 going to be allowed? My understanding they have written in 532 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,400 a provision in here 533 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,789 that would preclude parking on the streets necessarily but 534 00:24:45,789 --> 00:24:46,200 they are 535 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,799 proposing some parking at the end of each row of homes kind 536 00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:50,519 of a little 537 00:24:50,519 --> 00:24:54,299 designated a few extra parking spaces for guests. Okay. You 538 00:24:54,299 --> 00:24:55,240 mentioned alleyways 539 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,960 for the townhome so are they garage entrances gonna be in 540 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,279 the back then of the townhome? 541 00:25:00,279 --> 00:25:02,720 For the townhomes I believe so. Okay so that would probably 542 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:07,079 remove a lot of car parking out in 543 00:25:07,079 --> 00:25:10,920 front of houses. Okay great. Thank you. 544 00:25:18,839 --> 00:25:24,440 I'm sorry Haley. Go ahead. Couldn't get away that quick. 545 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,279 Maybe I'm confusing this with 546 00:25:26,279 --> 00:25:31,559 another property but this is all along 35. Are there any 547 00:25:31,559 --> 00:25:34,279 gas wells? There is I 548 00:25:34,279 --> 00:25:37,400 don't know if I have an aerial that is... 549 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,349 There is a gas well north of here off of actually two gas 550 00:25:43,349 --> 00:25:45,119 well sites north of 551 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,579 here on Windsor and then there's the one that's within the 552 00:25:47,579 --> 00:25:48,519 southern campus of 553 00:25:48,519 --> 00:25:51,680 Razor Ranch. But nothing that triggered special notice? No 554 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:52,920 sir. Not within this. 555 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,460 There's a third one I think just north of Windsor. Yeah 556 00:25:57,460 --> 00:25:58,519 that is correct and I 557 00:25:58,519 --> 00:26:01,519 think there is it's hard to see on here there's another one 558 00:26:01,519 --> 00:26:01,640 I think that's it. 559 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:11,480 Okay thank you. Thank you. 560 00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:19,000 Move us to items. Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. So to 561 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,880 be clear what we're 562 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,079 voting on here is not specific criteria just the fact that 563 00:26:25,079 --> 00:26:26,680 what exactly is it 564 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,960 we're gonna be voting on? Because we're not seeing any 565 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:30,079 specific criteria but 566 00:26:30,079 --> 00:26:35,599 we're gonna vote to... It's the criteria that are provided 567 00:26:35,599 --> 00:26:37,720 here or what I called 568 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:43,549 it in your backup let me see what name. Yes it's exhibit 569 00:26:43,549 --> 00:26:46,079 six in your backup it's 570 00:26:46,079 --> 00:26:49,759 exhibit C4 as well as the the language amendments to the 571 00:26:49,759 --> 00:26:50,759 overlay district 572 00:26:50,759 --> 00:26:53,119 itself where they needed to provide references to it. So we 573 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:53,559 have site 574 00:26:53,559 --> 00:26:57,190 standards they're in a certain area of the DDC and we're 575 00:26:57,190 --> 00:26:58,920 approving that for them. 576 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:03,710 Yes sub chapter seven section 15 is the razor ranch overlay 577 00:27:03,710 --> 00:27:04,480 district so they've 578 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,589 provided a few language tweaks in there to refer to this 579 00:27:07,589 --> 00:27:09,200 exhibit that is what 580 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,759 you were provided tonight. Thank you. And Haley will the 581 00:27:12,759 --> 00:27:13,880 site plan come back to? 582 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:18,480 Yes yeah plotting and site plan for this development will 583 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,119 come back to PNZ. 584 00:27:21,319 --> 00:27:27,900 That's it. Thank you Haley. Item C as on our agenda is 585 00:27:27,900 --> 00:27:31,799 postponed indefinitely. Item D 586 00:27:31,799 --> 00:27:37,329 is marked on our agenda has been postponed to March 7th so 587 00:27:37,329 --> 00:27:38,000 we will open 588 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:45,089 that continue it and leave open. Item E will be opened it 589 00:27:45,089 --> 00:27:46,359 'll be continued to 590 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:52,430 March 21st and leave open and then we will have Debra and 591 00:27:52,430 --> 00:27:54,160 do you want to stick 592 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,269 with the agenda and have Ron do his presentation and you 593 00:27:57,269 --> 00:27:58,319 come up and do all 594 00:27:58,319 --> 00:28:06,839 of your ESA? Yes. Okay. And item F will be covered in our 595 00:28:06,839 --> 00:28:08,079 next work session 596 00:28:08,079 --> 00:28:12,579 report but before that we will have a presentation from Ron 597 00:28:12,579 --> 00:28:13,759 as our going on 598 00:28:13,759 --> 00:28:18,910 into our work session reports on the public outreach 599 00:28:18,910 --> 00:28:23,440 efforts. Good evening 600 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,119 chair members of the Commission. I don't know if I'm 601 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:28,720 excited or scared to make 602 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,599 this presentation because there's a lot of information here 603 00:28:31,599 --> 00:28:32,359 . I know you guys 604 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,970 didn't get a backup we were in working on this even today 605 00:28:35,970 --> 00:28:38,319 to share with you our 606 00:28:38,319 --> 00:28:46,349 plans for our DVC update public engagement plan that is to 607 00:28:46,349 --> 00:28:47,759 start the 608 00:28:47,759 --> 00:28:51,670 process of getting public input. We started one module but 609 00:28:51,670 --> 00:28:53,019 we'll get to the 610 00:28:53,019 --> 00:28:57,119 rest and I'll have that in my presentation. 611 00:29:01,559 --> 00:29:04,720 So just quick background you know we we approved our den 612 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,160 plan 2030 part of that 613 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,589 plan is a future land use designation a land use element a 614 00:29:12,589 --> 00:29:13,799 number of other 615 00:29:13,799 --> 00:29:19,049 things associated with development in the city which calls 616 00:29:19,049 --> 00:29:20,920 for an update to 617 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:27,880 our DDC and our DDC to be consistent with our den plan 2030 618 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:28,720 needs to be 619 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,329 updated so that's what we're doing with with this project. 620 00:29:32,329 --> 00:29:34,039 Our main goal here is 621 00:29:34,039 --> 00:29:37,250 to assist development and redevelopment that meets that 622 00:29:37,250 --> 00:29:39,000 city vision. Through the 623 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,630 input that we receive through various stakeholders and 624 00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:44,200 interviews we've come 625 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,359 up with four I'm sorry these focus themes was common themes 626 00:29:48,359 --> 00:29:49,599 and that is to 627 00:29:49,599 --> 00:29:54,029 focus on customer service build a stronger foundation 628 00:29:54,029 --> 00:29:55,119 tailor our 629 00:29:55,119 --> 00:29:59,440 development standards that are more context and to a 630 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,759 specific area create new 631 00:30:01,759 --> 00:30:06,829 alternatives to provide flexibility and lastly coordinate 632 00:30:06,829 --> 00:30:08,160 efforts throughout the 633 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,490 city and as you see a lot of our development code updates 634 00:30:12,490 --> 00:30:13,039 are coming 635 00:30:13,039 --> 00:30:16,460 there as an example that's part of the effort of 636 00:30:16,460 --> 00:30:18,279 coordinating our efforts when 637 00:30:18,279 --> 00:30:25,799 we bring forward more code amendments that's the goal. So 638 00:30:25,799 --> 00:30:28,000 we are looking at a 639 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:32,950 code amendment proposal that will have eight chapters 640 00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:35,079 currently we have 24 641 00:30:35,079 --> 00:30:40,160 sub chapters let me clarify sub chapters they are they 642 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:41,759 being the consultants are 643 00:30:41,759 --> 00:30:46,420 proposing that they be grouped into eight sub chapters and 644 00:30:46,420 --> 00:30:47,640 those sub chapters 645 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:54,480 are listed here in an effort to review this in a more succ 646 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,480 inct manner they've 647 00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:00,569 even grouped it even more and developed modules so the 648 00:31:00,569 --> 00:31:03,119 first module is the 649 00:31:03,119 --> 00:31:07,549 zoning districts the overlay in historic districts and the 650 00:31:07,549 --> 00:31:09,559 use regulations this 651 00:31:09,559 --> 00:31:13,720 was presented and made available in the fall of last year 652 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:14,720 it's currently on our 653 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,430 website we've received comments already from the general 654 00:31:18,430 --> 00:31:19,720 public and we continue 655 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:26,089 to receive input from them. The update will also include a 656 00:31:26,089 --> 00:31:29,160 zoning map update as 657 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:35,930 we look at a new zoning list of districts our zoning map 658 00:31:35,930 --> 00:31:36,799 has to be 659 00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:41,609 reflected of that so we will also need to update our zoning 660 00:31:41,609 --> 00:31:42,880 map and that is 661 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,759 quite an effort and I'll get into that a little bit more as 662 00:31:46,759 --> 00:31:47,799 to how we're gonna 663 00:31:47,799 --> 00:31:56,119 get through that. The first effort and you all the three 664 00:31:56,119 --> 00:31:57,119 that are listed here 665 00:31:57,119 --> 00:32:02,349 are part of this DDC update advisory committee it's made up 666 00:32:02,349 --> 00:32:03,359 of three council 667 00:32:03,359 --> 00:32:06,369 members and three planning zoning commissioners Larry Mar 668 00:32:06,369 --> 00:32:07,480 gie and Andrew 669 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,359 you're on the planning zoning commission a component of 670 00:32:10,359 --> 00:32:12,279 this and this committee 671 00:32:12,279 --> 00:32:16,799 is charged to be the first reviewers of any drafts that 672 00:32:16,799 --> 00:32:18,599 will come out so when 673 00:32:18,599 --> 00:32:24,339 Clarion comes up with or comes out with their module 2 the 674 00:32:24,339 --> 00:32:25,200 committee will be the 675 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,000 first to look at it of course staff will have an 676 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,339 opportunity to review it get it 677 00:32:29,339 --> 00:32:32,119 revise it and get it back to you all but the committee's 678 00:32:32,119 --> 00:32:33,240 responsibility is to 679 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:40,200 review the drafts and also help guide the process. We also 680 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:41,960 have a technical team 681 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:47,660 that will assist in the facilitation of the code update of 682 00:32:47,660 --> 00:32:48,480 course we are we've 683 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:53,710 got we have Clarion Scott McDonald development director 684 00:32:53,710 --> 00:32:54,559 development 685 00:32:54,559 --> 00:32:57,599 services director as well as Richard myself and the other 686 00:32:57,599 --> 00:32:58,700 staff members here 687 00:32:58,700 --> 00:33:03,339 will be part of that team to facilitate getting information 688 00:33:03,339 --> 00:33:05,400 to the committee 689 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,170 facilitating the public open houses the workshops hopefully 690 00:33:09,170 --> 00:33:10,400 ultimately to City 691 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:15,519 Council and planning zoning Commission for consideration. 692 00:33:15,519 --> 00:33:19,119 So here we go so fall 693 00:33:19,119 --> 00:33:23,309 of 2017 we again I mentioned module one was presented we 694 00:33:23,309 --> 00:33:25,240 had a we had open house 695 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,000 in June public meeting one was in September and then 696 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:29,119 November we had a 697 00:33:29,119 --> 00:33:34,680 follow-up meeting in November 13 on November 13th. The week 698 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:35,799 of March 5th 699 00:33:35,799 --> 00:33:41,359 coming up module 2 will be available for the general public 700 00:33:41,359 --> 00:33:42,519 staff is in the 701 00:33:42,519 --> 00:33:46,039 process of reviewing it now and the council consultants 702 00:33:46,039 --> 00:33:47,279 will be revising it 703 00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:50,960 once they provide us with their revisions based on our 704 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,200 comments March 705 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:58,789 5th will be the date that we will make it available. Of 706 00:33:58,789 --> 00:34:00,839 course in that during 707 00:34:00,839 --> 00:34:05,430 that week March 7th the committee is going to have their 708 00:34:05,430 --> 00:34:06,839 first meeting to 709 00:34:06,839 --> 00:34:12,969 look over module 2 in that same day we will have a public 710 00:34:12,969 --> 00:34:15,719 meeting on having an 711 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,800 opportunity for the general public to come and provide 712 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,079 input and that will be 713 00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:25,880 held during the early afternoon. March 7th is a P&Z date 714 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:27,679 that's unfortunately 715 00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:31,969 the date we were we have so in the early afternoon we'll 716 00:34:31,969 --> 00:34:33,159 have a public meeting 717 00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:37,050 and then later that evening will be P&Z so it'll be a full 718 00:34:37,050 --> 00:34:38,480 day for the planning 719 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,369 zoning Commissioners that are on the committee. 720 00:34:40,369 --> 00:34:41,800 Commissioner Beck. Thank you 721 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,219 chair so the advisory committee us three were meeting that 722 00:34:45,219 --> 00:34:46,360 morning? In the morning 723 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:58,449 yes. Okay thanks. Busy day. Lock out your whole day. Lunch 724 00:34:58,449 --> 00:34:59,440 and dinner. The next day which is the 725 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:04,239 Thursday March 8th we will hold stakeholder meetings with 726 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:05,440 special groups 727 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:12,269 both internally and externally that will happen in the 728 00:35:12,269 --> 00:35:14,440 morning and the afternoon 729 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:20,510 and then that afternoon them the the between 11 and 1 we're 730 00:35:20,510 --> 00:35:21,199 proposing to have 731 00:35:21,199 --> 00:35:24,159 an open house again another opportunity for the general 732 00:35:24,159 --> 00:35:25,480 public to come if they 733 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,989 were not able to make it that evening of March 7th there's 734 00:35:28,989 --> 00:35:29,920 there's an opportunity 735 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:34,539 to come on March 8th so all this information I know some of 736 00:35:34,539 --> 00:35:34,920 you are 737 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,000 jotting things down are looking at your calendar we will 738 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,239 make available to you 739 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,159 all this is a draft we are still working on this and the 740 00:35:42,159 --> 00:35:43,199 reason why we're 741 00:35:43,199 --> 00:35:46,869 presenting this to you today is really to get your input to 742 00:35:46,869 --> 00:35:47,599 give you an 743 00:35:47,599 --> 00:35:50,809 opportunity to let us know if you have any other ideas or 744 00:35:50,809 --> 00:35:51,920 if there's ways we 745 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,800 can improve this and I felt to mention that earlier. All 746 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,440 right so that's module 747 00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:02,690 two module three will happen in about two weeks after that 748 00:36:02,690 --> 00:36:05,280 March 19th we will 749 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,519 make public the the draft of module three which is the 750 00:36:09,519 --> 00:36:10,440 development standards 751 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:15,489 similar situation the consultants will be here on March 21 752 00:36:15,489 --> 00:36:16,880 st which is again a 753 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:23,019 P&Z date the whole day blocked out for Larry Andrew and Mar 754 00:36:23,019 --> 00:36:24,519 gie stakeholder 755 00:36:24,519 --> 00:36:31,199 meetings and open house as shown here. Roughly the week of 756 00:36:31,199 --> 00:36:33,000 March 26 which is the 757 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:38,230 week after we are hoping to have the proposed zoning map 758 00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:39,920 available and this is 759 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:45,719 a lot of work being done right now to basically take our 760 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,239 current zoning make 761 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,360 it fit within our proposed zoning districts that's 762 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:51,559 consistent with our 763 00:36:51,559 --> 00:36:54,559 future land use designation so it's it's a lot of different 764 00:36:54,559 --> 00:36:56,280 things going in now 765 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,230 this is a proposed zoning map and this is going to affect a 766 00:36:59,230 --> 00:37:00,199 lot of people and 767 00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:03,710 that's that's something that we are also going to address 768 00:37:03,710 --> 00:37:05,119 as part of this public 769 00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:12,449 engagement effort. Early May after all the public input in 770 00:37:12,449 --> 00:37:13,760 open houses we're 771 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,179 hoping to have a consolidated public draft available for 772 00:37:17,179 --> 00:37:18,360 everyone to look at 773 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,889 this will be based on input we receive the revisions made 774 00:37:21,889 --> 00:37:23,159 by the consultants 775 00:37:23,159 --> 00:37:26,769 and hopefully a draft that will then receive additional 776 00:37:26,769 --> 00:37:28,039 input and something 777 00:37:28,039 --> 00:37:30,860 that will then take forward to the committee through the 778 00:37:30,860 --> 00:37:31,760 committee to the 779 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,849 P&Z and City Council. Ron question for you on that slide 780 00:37:35,849 --> 00:37:37,760 you go back on the 781 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,119 proposed zoning map is this essentially going to be like a 782 00:37:41,119 --> 00:37:42,800 sea-wide rezoning? Yes 783 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:49,480 sir. Okay so just like what we did 2002. Now a lot of the 784 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:50,719 zoning so just really 785 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,349 quick background on that currently we have I want to say 26 786 00:37:54,349 --> 00:37:55,559 zoning districts 787 00:37:55,559 --> 00:38:01,809 we're going to go down to 14 so there will be some combined 788 00:38:01,809 --> 00:38:03,440 some eliminated 789 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:09,760 some added so it's it's a comprehensive zoning map update. 790 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:11,239 Just to follow up on 791 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:16,789 that if I recall just so I'm familiar and public can be 792 00:38:16,789 --> 00:38:18,800 familiar you can't 793 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,099 downzone a property without the owners consent is that 794 00:38:22,099 --> 00:38:25,440 correct? I honestly I 795 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,449 don't know the answer to that question. Down zoning without 796 00:38:29,449 --> 00:38:31,199 the owners consent. 797 00:38:31,199 --> 00:38:35,400 If you do a city-wide rezoning you can't go from for 798 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,760 example an NR4 to an NR2 799 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:48,880 without the owners consent. So the minimum with their 800 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,000 proposed rezoning you at 801 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,780 least stay with the zoning you have or you bump up to a 802 00:38:52,780 --> 00:38:54,079 higher classification 803 00:38:54,079 --> 00:38:57,190 that's the closest to what you currently have you can't go 804 00:38:57,190 --> 00:38:58,519 down so it's always 805 00:38:58,519 --> 00:39:03,500 going to be stay or up rather than down. Okay thanks for 806 00:39:03,500 --> 00:39:05,559 the clarification. I know 807 00:39:05,559 --> 00:39:09,989 that was a huge or that was a lot of issues many years ago. 808 00:39:09,989 --> 00:39:11,280 Right and again 809 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,380 it's gonna be very difficult to make that definition 810 00:39:14,380 --> 00:39:15,420 because a lot of the 811 00:39:15,420 --> 00:39:18,949 zone districts you know what's considered down zoning so we 812 00:39:18,949 --> 00:39:19,599 'll I've 813 00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:24,059 noted that and and we'll make sure that we bring that up as 814 00:39:24,059 --> 00:39:25,000 a topic for 815 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,599 discussion. Okay thank you. Commissioner Sanchez. Based on 816 00:39:29,599 --> 00:39:30,239 the fact that there's 817 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,510 gonna be a lot of changes what kind of response are you 818 00:39:32,510 --> 00:39:33,480 getting from in these 819 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:38,429 public meetings? I mean are you getting a lot of input or 820 00:39:38,429 --> 00:39:39,880 is it just a few people 821 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,190 showing up? We had I go back to the slide because the first 822 00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:44,579 the only public 823 00:39:44,579 --> 00:39:47,650 meeting we've had is module one which is which is the big 824 00:39:47,650 --> 00:39:48,920 one right which has the 825 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,210 zoning district. We held several ones as you can see here 826 00:39:52,210 --> 00:39:53,760 overhead the council 827 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:58,440 chamber and there were about 30 to 40 people honestly that 828 00:39:58,440 --> 00:39:59,280 showed up and then 829 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:03,769 we've also received comments online. I don't have a list 830 00:40:03,769 --> 00:40:05,880 but not a high input 831 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,960 if I if I can be frank so yes I mean roughly each of these 832 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:10,559 means we've had 833 00:40:10,559 --> 00:40:14,400 maybe 40 people. Margie you may have attended a couple of 834 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:15,239 them or one of them. 835 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:19,500 Yeah. Do you consider that pretty representative? I mean I 836 00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:20,760 wish we had more. 837 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,039 Yeah that's what I'm saying to make changes as major as 838 00:40:23,039 --> 00:40:24,000 what you're talking 839 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,360 about it doesn't seem like you're getting a whole lot of 840 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:27,880 public input. And 841 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,480 we're gonna we're gonna continue to reach out as much as we 842 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:31,639 can and really 843 00:40:31,639 --> 00:40:37,579 rely on people to help us. Commissioner Ellis. Thank you 844 00:40:37,579 --> 00:40:38,519 chair. If I could add 845 00:40:38,519 --> 00:40:43,119 that to to your point Commissioner Sanchez all these 846 00:40:43,119 --> 00:40:44,880 efforts and we'll go 847 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,760 through them and they've added even more I think ability 848 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:48,920 for the public to make 849 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:53,010 comments. I think this is tough to get the entire city 850 00:40:53,010 --> 00:40:54,519 involved in because it's 851 00:40:54,519 --> 00:40:58,969 pretty intense to read code and a lot of people don't care 852 00:40:58,969 --> 00:40:59,800 a lot of people don't 853 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:05,880 understand it. So honestly the very first meeting in when 854 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,920 we had I think we had 37 855 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,150 people or something like that at that meeting you know that 856 00:41:10,150 --> 00:41:10,760 's pretty good 857 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,519 because some people are paying attention and then I know 858 00:41:14,519 --> 00:41:16,480 there's been comments 859 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,690 made online because you can go on on on the code website 860 00:41:19,690 --> 00:41:20,800 and look at those 861 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:26,869 comments. As well I think adding the the what we did last 862 00:41:26,869 --> 00:41:28,800 time where we met them 863 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:33,360 in the building on Hickory is that what you're proposing 864 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:34,280 for those stakeholder 865 00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,920 meetings where people signed up for the time to have the 866 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:38,679 one-on-one? Yeah. Is that 867 00:41:38,679 --> 00:41:41,710 what you're yeah and that that seemed well received you 868 00:41:41,710 --> 00:41:42,679 know where people went 869 00:41:42,679 --> 00:41:47,409 in handful at a time kind of a roundtable discussion. So 870 00:41:47,409 --> 00:41:48,559 yeah I think 871 00:41:48,559 --> 00:41:51,239 you're not gonna get the majority of the city involved in 872 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:52,320 this and I don't know 873 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,610 that you want the majority of the city involved in this 874 00:41:55,610 --> 00:41:56,920 because just some of 875 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,210 them I mean are just not gonna have any input because it's 876 00:42:00,210 --> 00:42:01,480 just not anything of 877 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,300 interest to them but I think I think the city's doing a 878 00:42:04,300 --> 00:42:05,480 good job in trying to 879 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:09,110 reach out and get the word out for sure. Commissioner San 880 00:42:09,110 --> 00:42:10,760 chez. Yeah I'm not saying 881 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,300 they're not I know it's people tend to be apathetic on a 882 00:42:13,300 --> 00:42:14,440 lot of issues when you 883 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,050 try to get them involved and then afterwards they complain 884 00:42:18,050 --> 00:42:19,079 but you know 885 00:42:19,079 --> 00:42:22,539 the point here is you make a big effort and if they don't 886 00:42:22,539 --> 00:42:23,880 show up it's their 887 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,760 fault but you want to make that big effort to try to bring 888 00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:27,719 them in. Right and 889 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,599 again. Making sure it's in the paper. Yes. You know making 890 00:42:30,599 --> 00:42:32,639 sure that there's every 891 00:42:32,639 --> 00:42:36,559 form of communication that's all I'm saying. That's a big 892 00:42:36,559 --> 00:42:37,320 issue I think. 893 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,460 We do appreciate that and that's why again why we're here 894 00:42:39,460 --> 00:42:40,119 we're trying to 895 00:42:40,119 --> 00:42:42,909 get it as early as possible to let people know that it's 896 00:42:42,909 --> 00:42:43,679 coming and so 897 00:42:43,679 --> 00:42:47,489 hopefully through this process not only will we hear ideas 898 00:42:47,489 --> 00:42:49,239 from you but maybe if 899 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:51,630 people are watching they can give us ideas on how to reach 900 00:42:51,630 --> 00:42:52,280 out to as many 901 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,909 people as possible. Commissioner Beck. Thank you chair and 902 00:42:55,909 --> 00:42:57,400 to help you along to 903 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:02,690 echo what Commissioner Ellis said one of the best ways that 904 00:43:02,690 --> 00:43:04,000 we helped I know and 905 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,960 maybe some others did too is we got out there on social 906 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:08,039 media and made the 907 00:43:08,039 --> 00:43:10,670 public aware and a lot of the people that are on these 908 00:43:10,670 --> 00:43:11,920 social media websites 909 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:15,230 are stakeholders and everything so I think we connected 910 00:43:15,230 --> 00:43:16,119 with the right 911 00:43:16,119 --> 00:43:19,329 people the fact that we only had 37 just kind of you know 912 00:43:19,329 --> 00:43:20,360 the interest in 913 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,590 something like this so I think the people that need to be 914 00:43:22,590 --> 00:43:23,199 there were there 915 00:43:23,199 --> 00:43:26,409 you know maybe one or two weren't but I think the word got 916 00:43:26,409 --> 00:43:27,639 out well enough to 917 00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:31,159 the people that needed to hear so to allay your concern 918 00:43:31,159 --> 00:43:32,440 there I just wanted 919 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,639 to share that with you. Again as you know social media of 920 00:43:36,639 --> 00:43:37,440 course and then of course a 921 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,820 dedicated website that's going to be important because that 922 00:43:39,820 --> 00:43:40,440 's where we can 923 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,789 post a lot of the information and again offer an 924 00:43:42,789 --> 00:43:44,199 opportunity for people to 925 00:43:44,199 --> 00:43:50,340 provide comments input so we have a dedicated website den 926 00:43:50,340 --> 00:43:52,760 code 2030.com 927 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:57,489 we'll have the zoning map available there existing and 928 00:43:57,489 --> 00:43:59,320 propose all the uses 929 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:04,599 that's associated with each again provide opportunities for 930 00:44:04,599 --> 00:44:05,480 people to 931 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,119 provide comments what we'll do is we'll take those comments 932 00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:10,000 put them in an Excel 933 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,929 spreadsheet and just keep track of these so that we can 934 00:44:13,929 --> 00:44:15,599 show and adjust those 935 00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:19,230 comments in an orderly fashion and of course upcoming 936 00:44:19,230 --> 00:44:20,440 workshops and public 937 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,940 hearings that are scheduled so the information will be 938 00:44:22,940 --> 00:44:25,000 there on our website 939 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,980 this is obviously one of my zoning case I just want to just 940 00:44:27,980 --> 00:44:29,199 illustrate what we'll 941 00:44:29,199 --> 00:44:32,630 potentially see it we'll have an existing and a propose and 942 00:44:32,630 --> 00:44:33,000 we'll we'll 943 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,630 talk to each property owner if need be to show with show 944 00:44:36,630 --> 00:44:38,119 them what we are 945 00:44:38,119 --> 00:44:42,349 proposing and we'll get their comment and document all that 946 00:44:42,349 --> 00:44:44,000 information for 947 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:49,170 for all the committee and the Pinsley and City Council to 948 00:44:49,170 --> 00:44:50,719 consider okay so that's 949 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:57,530 the modules module two and three March 5th March 19th busy 950 00:44:57,530 --> 00:45:00,920 weeks the maps the 951 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:05,079 21st right the map the learning map is a is a big deal 952 00:45:05,079 --> 00:45:05,960 because it affects 953 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:12,119 everyone one way or another if zone appropriately what we 954 00:45:12,119 --> 00:45:13,000 're proposing is 955 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:17,280 sending out letters and we have approximately 40,000 956 00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:18,119 properties or 957 00:45:18,119 --> 00:45:23,130 parcels in the city and we are going to send out what their 958 00:45:23,130 --> 00:45:24,800 zoning is going to 959 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:30,639 be instructions to access information on the website have 960 00:45:30,639 --> 00:45:32,639 have opportunities for 961 00:45:32,639 --> 00:45:37,590 them to find out what's going on with their property email 962 00:45:37,590 --> 00:45:39,679 DTV newspaper we 963 00:45:39,679 --> 00:45:43,400 already talked about press releases you know everything 964 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,360 that we can think of you 965 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,480 know special in city newsletter going out social media 966 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,760 everything that we we 967 00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,440 normally do as far as public outreach Commissioner Smith 968 00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,920 make sure 40,000 969 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:05,639 letters yeah in the past whenever you chair whenever you 970 00:46:05,639 --> 00:46:06,800 guys did the the last 971 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:11,230 citywide rezone believe it or not that was even before my 972 00:46:11,230 --> 00:46:18,639 time is there gonna 973 00:46:18,639 --> 00:46:21,730 be a public was gonna be a public forum for this whenever 974 00:46:21,730 --> 00:46:22,639 it comes to come back 975 00:46:22,639 --> 00:46:26,880 to us for we this the map we're gonna have to vote on it 976 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:28,039 right and a public and 977 00:46:28,039 --> 00:46:31,139 a public hearing correct correct just saying that just to 978 00:46:31,139 --> 00:46:32,599 ask this then so 979 00:46:32,599 --> 00:46:37,849 there's the chance that of the 40,000 maybe that don't like 980 00:46:37,849 --> 00:46:39,039 their their 981 00:46:39,039 --> 00:46:41,969 rezoning that we'll be hearing from them as well yes get 982 00:46:41,969 --> 00:46:43,440 your get your caffeine 983 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,840 ready boys 984 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:53,760 Commissioner Ellis thank you Jeff Ron at one time when we 985 00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:55,400 started this right 986 00:46:55,400 --> 00:47:02,000 there was an end of our second module to meeting we put 987 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,519 together a citizen names 988 00:47:05,519 --> 00:47:08,719 of citizens that we had provided and then that's when 989 00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,039 everything came to a 990 00:47:10,039 --> 00:47:13,710 screeching halt I think somebody from staff reached out to 991 00:47:13,710 --> 00:47:14,519 these people who's 992 00:47:14,519 --> 00:47:17,309 and they agreed to be on this committee and the committee 993 00:47:17,309 --> 00:47:18,639 absolutely never met 994 00:47:18,639 --> 00:47:23,199 have we thought about engaging that group again we did and 995 00:47:23,199 --> 00:47:24,239 I think it was 996 00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:30,039 there was a transition in staff and when that happened that 997 00:47:30,039 --> 00:47:33,960 idea is not part of 998 00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,469 our public outreach we will have a lot of public outreach 999 00:47:37,469 --> 00:47:38,440 so those individuals 1000 00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:43,010 will still be participating but not at the level as they 1001 00:47:43,010 --> 00:47:44,440 would as part of that 1002 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,869 okay so not part of any kind of steering committee have we 1003 00:47:47,869 --> 00:47:49,000 made sure that we have 1004 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,039 those people on a list though I mean because those were 1005 00:47:52,039 --> 00:47:53,000 those were good 1006 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,420 involved names I know that we've all provided and I've 1007 00:47:56,420 --> 00:47:57,320 certainly been 1008 00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,039 questioned like hey they contacted me once and never again 1009 00:48:01,039 --> 00:48:02,559 so right again it 1010 00:48:02,559 --> 00:48:05,739 was during that transition and we do have them are we our 1011 00:48:05,739 --> 00:48:06,840 list continues to 1012 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,590 grow and we continue to make sure that it's updated and we 1013 00:48:09,590 --> 00:48:10,440 will use that as 1014 00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,369 part of our public outreach well and we may want to I don't 1015 00:48:13,369 --> 00:48:14,440 know who did the 1016 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,840 reaching out the first time but you know perhaps somebody 1017 00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:17,760 from staff needs to 1018 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,000 reach out again to just say that the steering committee is 1019 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:20,920 not going to happen 1020 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,809 okay but we want them involved in this process and to 1021 00:48:23,809 --> 00:48:25,000 please you know stay 1022 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,630 engaged I mean I think I think we owe them that we we we 1023 00:48:28,630 --> 00:48:29,920 called them ourselves 1024 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:34,170 personally and then staff sent out and got the yes we want 1025 00:48:34,170 --> 00:48:35,079 to be on the 1026 00:48:35,079 --> 00:48:38,329 committee and then silence and so I think they at least 1027 00:48:38,329 --> 00:48:39,559 deserve some kind of 1028 00:48:39,559 --> 00:48:43,449 an explanation and and maybe a way to to stay involved in 1029 00:48:43,449 --> 00:48:44,440 it great no thank you 1030 00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,599 for that and we'll certainly do that Commissioner Smith 1031 00:48:47,599 --> 00:48:49,400 nature sorry I know 1032 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,179 how much jokes and everything else but not not not so I 1033 00:48:52,179 --> 00:48:53,159 finally sunk in I 1034 00:48:53,159 --> 00:48:55,519 actually want to ask some serious questions the timeline 1035 00:48:55,519 --> 00:48:56,059 between the 1036 00:48:56,059 --> 00:48:58,880 mailing and the public hearing you think what's the what's 1037 00:48:58,880 --> 00:48:59,880 the the time they're 1038 00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:02,829 gonna have of notification till the public hearing till 1039 00:49:02,829 --> 00:49:03,920 till till the ad 1040 00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,170 till the vote on the DTC comes back to us at planning I 1041 00:49:06,170 --> 00:49:07,199 think our standard is 1042 00:49:07,199 --> 00:49:11,710 12 days for public here so yes is there anything I know you 1043 00:49:11,710 --> 00:49:12,519 guys have a lot of 1044 00:49:12,519 --> 00:49:15,460 a lot of great things you guys doing email blast put them 1045 00:49:15,460 --> 00:49:15,960 on the TV a 1046 00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,900 dedicated website all that is there anything else that we 1047 00:49:18,900 --> 00:49:19,440 can from a 1048 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,210 commission standpoint help you guys do excuse me preempt 1049 00:49:23,210 --> 00:49:25,199 ively to assist that 1050 00:49:25,199 --> 00:49:30,130 even offering ways that they can contact us be I'm speaking 1051 00:49:30,130 --> 00:49:31,199 for myself not for 1052 00:49:31,199 --> 00:49:34,039 that they can contact commissioners they can contact 1053 00:49:34,039 --> 00:49:35,239 whoever they feel like is 1054 00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,650 their representative to be able to answer questions because 1055 00:49:37,650 --> 00:49:38,320 I feel like that 1056 00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,469 just the same 12 days between you get a letter that and we 1057 00:49:41,469 --> 00:49:42,559 've seen it we've had 1058 00:49:42,559 --> 00:49:45,730 we've had cases that herb you know deals that come before 1059 00:49:45,730 --> 00:49:46,880 us that they come to 1060 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,610 say I just came here and I had a bunch of questions and now 1061 00:49:49,610 --> 00:49:50,239 they've all been 1062 00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,469 answered for me being here so just to save people time and 1063 00:49:52,469 --> 00:49:53,840 save yes so so 1064 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,079 beating ourselves before we get to a public hearing we're 1065 00:49:56,079 --> 00:49:56,679 gonna we're gonna 1066 00:49:56,679 --> 00:50:00,889 have a lot of public outreach workshops and open houses so 1067 00:50:00,889 --> 00:50:02,159 this notice that I'm 1068 00:50:02,159 --> 00:50:06,719 sure these letters are for a public open house of workout 1069 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:08,800 so that's one we will 1070 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,559 have to re-notice them again so these are different than 1071 00:50:11,559 --> 00:50:12,519 the actual for the 1072 00:50:12,519 --> 00:50:14,750 public hearing so they'll be mailing and then they'll be a 1073 00:50:14,750 --> 00:50:15,239 notice then they'll be 1074 00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,940 12 days and then it'll be okay yes you're saying we're 1075 00:50:17,940 --> 00:50:19,199 gonna send out 40,000 1076 00:50:19,199 --> 00:50:22,079 notices and 12 days later we're gonna have no they'll they 1077 00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:23,840 'll know already in 1078 00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,809 advance but then per our requirement we would have to 1079 00:50:26,809 --> 00:50:27,599 notice them again for the 1080 00:50:27,599 --> 00:50:30,039 public hearing sure but the opportunities other than just 1081 00:50:30,039 --> 00:50:31,599 that first time this 1082 00:50:31,599 --> 00:50:34,780 will be this will be several times thank you appreciate it 1083 00:50:34,780 --> 00:50:38,000 good question though 1084 00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:42,730 so what we're proposing is to have public open houses and 1085 00:50:42,730 --> 00:50:43,920 workshops by 1086 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:49,170 council districts just to help concentrate you know our 1087 00:50:49,170 --> 00:50:50,559 efforts we'll 1088 00:50:50,559 --> 00:50:54,650 have four stations available and you know it's manned our 1089 00:50:54,650 --> 00:50:55,880 staffed with our 1090 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,869 staff members that is to go over all the details as to the 1091 00:50:59,869 --> 00:51:01,519 type of zoning that is 1092 00:51:01,519 --> 00:51:05,840 proposed the uses that are under that zoning district and 1093 00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:07,320 any comments again 1094 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,610 we're trying to get their input and the goal is to fill out 1095 00:51:10,610 --> 00:51:11,760 these common cards 1096 00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,920 enter into an Excel spreadsheet and keep track of all the 1097 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:16,119 input that we have so 1098 00:51:16,119 --> 00:51:19,639 when we get to PNZ and City Council that we'll have a 1099 00:51:19,639 --> 00:51:21,179 better idea of what we've 1100 00:51:21,179 --> 00:51:25,969 heard so here's another list of dates and so don't get 1101 00:51:25,969 --> 00:51:27,039 scared this is this is 1102 00:51:27,039 --> 00:51:33,110 where it gets a little crazy so for the zoning map this is 1103 00:51:33,110 --> 00:51:34,840 the the 40,000 letters 1104 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,559 that we're gonna be sending out we're gonna be advertising 1105 00:51:37,559 --> 00:51:38,360 or letting them 1106 00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:42,599 know that if you're in district one your date to come to an 1107 00:51:42,599 --> 00:51:44,320 open house is March 1108 00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:50,079 26 it's just not too far away that's just around the corner 1109 00:51:50,079 --> 00:51:51,360 location we 1110 00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:53,829 haven't yet determined but we're gonna try to identify it 1111 00:51:53,829 --> 00:51:54,760 within that zoning 1112 00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,599 district no I'm sorry Zorn district council district 1113 00:51:58,599 --> 00:52:00,400 district 2 that 1114 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:06,469 Thursday we'll have a week where we will have the staff 1115 00:52:06,469 --> 00:52:08,719 available at our office 1116 00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:13,539 then services to come in and speak to us individually if 1117 00:52:13,539 --> 00:52:15,280 they want to if they 1118 00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,800 weren't able to make the March I'm sorry the the first one 1119 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:21,000 or the second one on 1120 00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:27,449 March April sorry April 9th will be district 3 district 4 1121 00:52:27,449 --> 00:52:28,400 would be that 1122 00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:33,630 Thursday and then a citywide on a Saturday again 1123 00:52:33,630 --> 00:52:34,840 opportunity for people 1124 00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:37,590 to come that weren't able to come they can come between 9 1125 00:52:37,590 --> 00:52:39,079 and 12 on Saturday 1126 00:52:39,079 --> 00:52:41,340 this is what staffs proposing obviously we'd like to hear 1127 00:52:41,340 --> 00:52:42,519 from the Commission 1128 00:52:42,519 --> 00:52:46,760 Commissioner Smith thank you chair is there any way we can 1129 00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:47,320 include in that 1130 00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:53,519 and that notification I'm sorry the initial notice uh-huh 1131 00:52:53,519 --> 00:52:59,719 mailout include general basic district map I have a lot of 1132 00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:00,679 people that I know 1133 00:53:00,679 --> 00:53:03,400 that don't know what district they're in council district 1134 00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:04,119 yeah what council 1135 00:53:04,119 --> 00:53:06,750 district they're in so is there any way we can include you 1136 00:53:06,750 --> 00:53:08,199 can't obviously go by 1137 00:53:08,199 --> 00:53:11,389 letter by letter and say hey you're in district 2 but 1138 00:53:11,389 --> 00:53:13,639 include a map well idea 1139 00:53:13,639 --> 00:53:17,639 the idea no you're right I mean depending on how we say we 1140 00:53:17,639 --> 00:53:17,960 want to say 1141 00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,599 all at one time we need to make sure actual sheet in there 1142 00:53:20,599 --> 00:53:21,280 they're familiar 1143 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,789 with what district they're in because they'll see this 1144 00:53:23,789 --> 00:53:24,760 these dates and they 1145 00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,849 want to make sure they attend that district meeting because 1146 00:53:28,849 --> 00:53:29,320 it would be 1147 00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:33,530 geared towards that specific area that makes sense thank 1148 00:53:33,530 --> 00:53:34,400 you if we want to 1149 00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:36,679 waste the paper even just point into the link on the 1150 00:53:36,679 --> 00:53:37,719 website that has the map on 1151 00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:42,670 there that they can do that too okay Commissioner Ellis 1152 00:53:42,670 --> 00:53:43,639 thank you chair Ron 1153 00:53:43,639 --> 00:53:47,349 are you sending us this presentation yes thank you this is 1154 00:53:47,349 --> 00:53:49,079 a draft as it can be 1155 00:53:49,079 --> 00:53:51,980 like I said we've been working on it all week and we want 1156 00:53:51,980 --> 00:53:52,800 to make sure we 1157 00:53:52,800 --> 00:53:55,559 incorporate what you you've told us and so when we get 1158 00:53:55,559 --> 00:53:56,760 updated we'll make sure 1159 00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,969 to send it to you well I met this particular one with the 1160 00:53:59,969 --> 00:54:00,960 dates on it just 1161 00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:07,889 so all of us okay perfect so any thoughts on these dates 1162 00:54:07,889 --> 00:54:09,519 having it on a 1163 00:54:09,519 --> 00:54:14,840 Monday for one a second one on a Thursday just splitting it 1164 00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:15,599 up as we've 1165 00:54:15,599 --> 00:54:19,719 proposed is there any comments or any questions 1166 00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:21,880 Commissioner Beck I'm concerned 1167 00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,389 and it may be that not many people turn up again except 1168 00:54:25,389 --> 00:54:26,159 those who are really 1169 00:54:26,159 --> 00:54:33,130 interested but on a 6 to 8 p.m. how many people are going 1170 00:54:33,130 --> 00:54:33,599 to be there to answer 1171 00:54:33,599 --> 00:54:37,599 questions for the public there will be at least eight staff 1172 00:54:37,599 --> 00:54:39,599 members okay okay 1173 00:54:39,599 --> 00:54:50,320 okay all right thank you Richard might be there maybe maybe 1174 00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:55,989 Larry you can be there too and help us out we talked about 1175 00:54:55,989 --> 00:54:57,559 individual 1176 00:54:57,559 --> 00:54:59,789 stakeholder meetings you know we're gonna try to reach out 1177 00:54:59,789 --> 00:55:00,960 to these individual 1178 00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:05,099 groups again we want to hear from as many people as 1179 00:55:05,099 --> 00:55:07,639 possible this is our list 1180 00:55:07,639 --> 00:55:11,929 do you all see any or you see anything missing or do you 1181 00:55:11,929 --> 00:55:13,519 have any groups that 1182 00:55:13,519 --> 00:55:18,320 you think should be added that we can reach out to to make 1183 00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:19,840 sure that we have 1184 00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:23,050 everyone's input if you if you think of something later you 1185 00:55:23,050 --> 00:55:24,039 can always email 1186 00:55:24,039 --> 00:55:28,119 email myself or Richard or Scott 1187 00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,989 all right so here are the public hearings Tim this is where 1188 00:55:34,989 --> 00:55:36,079 this is where 1189 00:55:36,079 --> 00:55:40,269 now I've got one I thought of okay commissioner Smith the 1190 00:55:40,269 --> 00:55:42,440 chair rotary or 1191 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:45,760 Kiwanis or Lions Clubs 1192 00:56:00,599 --> 00:56:03,599 okay 1193 00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:11,530 the next slide is a busy slide I apologize but as we get 1194 00:56:11,530 --> 00:56:13,360 through the 1195 00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:16,880 public workshops and public open houses talking about the 1196 00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:18,039 zoning map and any 1197 00:56:18,039 --> 00:56:22,170 opportunity to talk about even the modules we're gonna get 1198 00:56:22,170 --> 00:56:23,320 the PNZ and City 1199 00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:27,409 Council familiar and brought up to speed now the commission 1200 00:56:27,409 --> 00:56:28,300 I'm sorry the 1201 00:56:28,300 --> 00:56:30,840 committee will have some insights but the plan the rest of 1202 00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:31,840 the planning zoning 1203 00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:36,789 Commission is going to hear for at least as a group the 1204 00:56:36,789 --> 00:56:38,599 first time on April 17th 1205 00:56:38,599 --> 00:56:42,289 an introduction joint meeting with the City Council and the 1206 00:56:42,289 --> 00:56:43,159 planning zoning 1207 00:56:43,159 --> 00:56:50,730 Commission following that will be April 18th and that is a 1208 00:56:50,730 --> 00:56:52,360 PNZ date I'm sorry 1209 00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,159 that's not a PNZ day that's not a PNZ day it's actually a 1210 00:56:55,159 --> 00:56:56,440 Wednesday that's not 1211 00:56:56,440 --> 00:57:02,079 a PNZ that will have the special work session with with PNZ 1212 00:57:02,079 --> 00:57:04,360 and the hope 1213 00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,400 there's that's all we're going to be talking about is 1214 00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,280 module one as a 1215 00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:13,119 commission Ron's got a question yes sir and looking at the 1216 00:57:13,119 --> 00:57:14,000 whole calendar here 1217 00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,670 with the special work sessions and the number of ordinances 1218 00:57:17,670 --> 00:57:18,840 that we're going to 1219 00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,960 have to be reviewing how early will we get that information 1220 00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:23,079 prior to these 1221 00:57:23,079 --> 00:57:26,500 meetings to have more than four or five days to review 1222 00:57:26,500 --> 00:57:28,239 three or four ordinance I 1223 00:57:28,239 --> 00:57:34,679 hope at least two several weeks yeah minimum two weeks if 1224 00:57:34,679 --> 00:57:37,159 not more right 1225 00:57:37,159 --> 00:57:41,119 Commissioner Ellis thank you chair isn't module one as it's 1226 00:57:41,119 --> 00:57:41,920 going to be presented 1227 00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:45,480 ready now it is we are like I said we are still 1228 00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,269 reviewing receiving input always the idea is that the 1229 00:57:49,269 --> 00:57:50,500 consultants will take 1230 00:57:50,500 --> 00:57:53,710 that and maybe change it a little bit I already know that 1231 00:57:53,710 --> 00:57:55,320 on the website there's 1232 00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:59,000 already a major change that is already proposed so the 1233 00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:00,639 version that you'll get 1234 00:58:00,639 --> 00:58:05,659 will most likely be a different one yeah okay yeah I'd like 1235 00:58:05,659 --> 00:58:06,639 to piggyback on 1236 00:58:06,639 --> 00:58:10,519 Commissioner Ellis's point if the modules are ready or 1237 00:58:10,519 --> 00:58:11,320 modules are ready 1238 00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,429 now and you're receiving comment is there a reason why we 1239 00:58:14,429 --> 00:58:15,639 can't get those now 1240 00:58:15,639 --> 00:58:18,750 and be part of that we come in and hopefully speed the 1241 00:58:18,750 --> 00:58:20,260 process up sure sure 1242 00:58:20,260 --> 00:58:24,039 we can do that I think that'd be beneficial that I will 1243 00:58:24,039 --> 00:58:24,440 speak for anybody 1244 00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:27,650 else I know me and reading it like I said module one it's 1245 00:58:27,650 --> 00:58:28,440 on the website 1246 00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:32,340 module two will be available March 6 and then March 19 with 1247 00:58:32,340 --> 00:58:33,280 module 3 1248 00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:37,860 Commissioner Ellis thank you chair okay so clarify module 1249 00:58:37,860 --> 00:58:39,760 one with as far as 1250 00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:45,590 what okay last I heard we were moving forward with what was 1251 00:58:45,590 --> 00:58:48,239 presented last so 1252 00:58:48,239 --> 00:58:51,539 you're saying that now went back and got reviewed again 1253 00:58:51,539 --> 00:58:52,400 would you say move 1254 00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,449 forward you mean what obviously it wasn't approved but as 1255 00:58:55,449 --> 00:58:56,480 far as I mean we 1256 00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:01,769 had vetted it twice and had page turn you know committee 1257 00:59:01,769 --> 00:59:02,920 and then we had 1258 00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:08,210 several public input on it and so then I thought we were 1259 00:59:08,210 --> 00:59:10,239 then we were I thought 1260 00:59:10,239 --> 00:59:14,679 gonna bring it to full PNZ at that point so so no so module 1261 00:59:14,679 --> 00:59:16,199 one's been redone 1262 00:59:16,199 --> 00:59:20,000 since the committee saw them sort of okay what happened was 1263 00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:21,119 you may recall 1264 00:59:21,119 --> 00:59:23,519 there were there were mixed-use districts and then there 1265 00:59:23,519 --> 00:59:24,199 were mixed-use 1266 00:59:24,199 --> 00:59:28,079 corridor districts and a lot of it seemed to be repetitive 1267 00:59:28,079 --> 00:59:29,039 and so what we 1268 00:59:29,039 --> 00:59:31,539 thought was given where engineering starting to go with 1269 00:59:31,539 --> 00:59:32,559 with their criteria 1270 00:59:32,559 --> 00:59:35,769 manual on these context-sensitive corridors rather than 1271 00:59:35,769 --> 00:59:36,719 have specific 1272 00:59:36,719 --> 00:59:39,369 corridor zoning districts where we get into zoning changes 1273 00:59:39,369 --> 00:59:40,199 because one thing 1274 00:59:40,199 --> 00:59:43,039 may not work and what we thought was once we get into 1275 00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:44,039 landscape streetscape 1276 00:59:44,039 --> 00:59:47,010 identify those corridors as part of a as part of the plan 1277 00:59:47,010 --> 00:59:48,079 and if that's how we 1278 00:59:48,079 --> 00:59:51,690 want to set the streetscape do that as part of a as a 1279 00:59:51,690 --> 00:59:53,199 separate section of the 1280 00:59:53,199 --> 00:59:56,019 code rather than a whole separate zoning district and so 1281 00:59:56,019 --> 00:59:57,039 whatever whatever 1282 00:59:57,039 --> 01:00:00,440 criteria would be required based on that street type that 1283 01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:00,960 would be the 1284 01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,650 requirement rather than specific to the zoning and so it's 1285 01:00:03,650 --> 01:00:05,280 just sort of refining 1286 01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:09,159 I don't think you'll see any major changes other than sort 1287 01:00:09,159 --> 01:00:10,239 of refining and 1288 01:00:10,239 --> 01:00:13,059 actually reducing again the number of number of districts 1289 01:00:13,059 --> 01:00:13,960 okay yeah because 1290 01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,190 that's my concern if because it doesn't look like we're 1291 01:00:16,190 --> 01:00:16,840 seeing that as a 1292 01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:19,880 committee again according to your plan we're starting with 1293 01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:21,639 module 2 so that's 1294 01:00:21,639 --> 01:00:26,210 my concern is how how much changed between what we started 1295 01:00:26,210 --> 01:00:27,860 last year on one 1296 01:00:27,860 --> 01:00:31,210 right now that's about the extent of it there might be some 1297 01:00:31,210 --> 01:00:32,239 use changes as we 1298 01:00:32,239 --> 01:00:36,000 you know progress but right now that's that's the extent of 1299 01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:36,000 it 1300 01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,829 are you bring up a good point I think that first meeting on 1301 01:00:39,829 --> 01:00:41,840 on March 7th where 1302 01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:45,869 we're gonna introduce module 2 we might bring because the 1303 01:00:45,869 --> 01:00:47,679 City Council members 1304 01:00:47,679 --> 01:00:52,639 would not have been presented it to them as well so we 1305 01:00:52,639 --> 01:00:54,360 might include that as part 1306 01:00:54,360 --> 01:01:01,820 of that discussion on March 7th commissioner Roselle thank 1307 01:01:01,820 --> 01:01:02,559 you chair 1308 01:01:02,559 --> 01:01:05,380 the this can you wonder that you're that you're on the 1309 01:01:05,380 --> 01:01:06,960 slide that I wanted to see 1310 01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:11,210 about the Advisory Committee this is the Advisory Committee 1311 01:01:11,210 --> 01:01:12,760 on March 7th when we 1312 01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,070 meet next meeting as a full Advisory Committee are we still 1313 01:01:15,070 --> 01:01:15,559 gonna meet 1314 01:01:15,559 --> 01:01:19,280 separately like we did previously where there's three of us 1315 01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:20,280 meeting and then 1316 01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:22,179 three of them or we all six going to meet it's my 1317 01:01:22,179 --> 01:01:23,360 understanding the committee 1318 01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:25,650 is made up of all six that would be most helpful to meet 1319 01:01:25,650 --> 01:01:27,760 that way thank you I 1320 01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:37,760 just broke this up by okay go back to that scary slide 1321 01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,360 special work session 1322 01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:47,480 which is an off P&Z dedicated just for module one following 1323 01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:48,519 that work session 1324 01:01:48,519 --> 01:01:51,900 we'll have a work session with City Council talk about 1325 01:01:51,900 --> 01:01:53,239 module one and so on 1326 01:01:53,239 --> 01:01:58,960 and so forth June 5th we'll have a recap meeting to go over 1327 01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:00,800 it again with the 1328 01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:06,920 City Council and P&Z proposing June 27th that looks about 1329 01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,000 like three weeks to 1330 01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:13,480 bring it forward and that will be where Tim you were 1331 01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:16,679 talking about noticing this 1332 01:02:16,679 --> 01:02:19,559 is the public hearing and this is we have to legally notice 1333 01:02:19,559 --> 01:02:20,440 property owners 1334 01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:24,000 because they they are going to be affected and again that 1335 01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:24,880 is scheduled 1336 01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:31,650 tentatively preliminarily June 27th about less than a month 1337 01:02:31,650 --> 01:02:32,800 we will take it to 1338 01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:38,320 City Council so July 17 is the date Commissioner Ellis 1339 01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:40,199 thank you chair this 1340 01:02:40,199 --> 01:02:43,829 is just the DDC rewrite or is the zone map change in 1341 01:02:43,829 --> 01:02:45,119 incorporated in this as 1342 01:02:45,119 --> 01:02:55,800 well everything everything Commissioner Smith and I come to 1343 01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:56,159 Commissioner 1344 01:02:56,159 --> 01:03:00,119 Rosalene thank you chair more of just a little logistical 1345 01:03:00,119 --> 01:03:01,639 issue I guess the if 1346 01:03:01,639 --> 01:03:06,780 others there's one councilwoman McGarry who's on the the 1347 01:03:06,780 --> 01:03:08,280 advisory committee she 1348 01:03:08,280 --> 01:03:12,369 is not opting for reelection so what's gonna happen how 1349 01:03:12,369 --> 01:03:13,440 does how does what 1350 01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:16,630 happens on that but if there's somebody who's on there now 1351 01:03:16,630 --> 01:03:17,400 it's not gonna be on 1352 01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:20,610 it after the election I'm gonna either turn that to Richard 1353 01:03:20,610 --> 01:03:21,440 or I can try to 1354 01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:26,510 attempt I know that Scott McDonald is planning on having a 1355 01:03:26,510 --> 01:03:26,960 similar 1356 01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:31,289 presentation City Council in that I'm no real address that 1357 01:03:31,289 --> 01:03:32,719 yeah yeah that will 1358 01:03:32,719 --> 01:03:36,389 have to be addressed that's a good observation just want to 1359 01:03:36,389 --> 01:03:37,599 ask thank you 1360 01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:45,940 Commissioner Roseau sorry I almost forgot anyways on July 1361 01:03:45,940 --> 01:03:48,920 17th potentially the 1362 01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,929 entire DDC would be implemented with that let me rephrase 1363 01:03:52,929 --> 01:03:54,480 that these zoning 1364 01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:57,400 changes that we've talked about the zoning map changes yes 1365 01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:58,079 would those be 1366 01:03:58,079 --> 01:04:01,440 adopted July 17th or those that would happen earlier as a 1367 01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:03,280 dry 17th for all of 1368 01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:06,909 it implementation that that's that's our plan is to do 1369 01:04:06,909 --> 01:04:08,320 everything at one time and 1370 01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,619 at that time all property owners and didn't if this goes 1371 01:04:11,619 --> 01:04:12,559 through would 1372 01:04:12,559 --> 01:04:16,239 switch zoning that night if not that night maybe 14 days 1373 01:04:16,239 --> 01:04:18,119 later just per 1374 01:04:18,119 --> 01:04:21,760 standard requirements I got you but generally in that same 1375 01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:22,519 time frame okay 1376 01:04:22,519 --> 01:04:25,119 thanks 1377 01:04:27,199 --> 01:04:37,610 oh yeah we're done any other questions so what we'll do is 1378 01:04:37,610 --> 01:04:39,119 we'll put together 1379 01:04:39,119 --> 01:04:43,320 this plan that we've just presented we're taking it to City 1380 01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:44,480 Council with the 1381 01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:49,929 same intent we will then distribute the dates to everyone 1382 01:04:49,929 --> 01:04:50,880 on the commission so 1383 01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:55,389 you'll have that moving forward just want to make sure that 1384 01:04:55,389 --> 01:04:56,559 that was our next 1385 01:04:56,559 --> 01:05:01,510 step and make sure everyone's okay with having a separate 1386 01:05:01,510 --> 01:05:02,920 meeting just 1387 01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:08,880 specifically dedicated to the DDC piece at midnight correct 1388 01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:11,320 okay Larry's got his 1389 01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:16,570 calendar book to raise all right thank you all thank you 1390 01:05:16,570 --> 01:05:18,960 Ron our next item 1391 01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:23,989 will be to continue on with our work session on the ESA 1392 01:05:23,989 --> 01:05:26,119 rewrite and I think 1393 01:05:26,119 --> 01:05:30,300 the interest of time is let's take a quick break and get 1394 01:05:30,300 --> 01:05:31,280 food while Deborah's 1395 01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:33,760 getting set up and come back as quickly as we can so we can 1396 01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:34,719 go all the way up to 1397 01:05:34,719 --> 01:05:39,550 630 if necessary so I will call a recess at 512 for break 1398 01:05:39,550 --> 01:05:40,519 for food and then we'll 1399 01:05:40,519 --> 01:05:57,250 reconvene as soon as possible and then call us back into 1400 01:05:57,250 --> 01:05:57,360 session our work 1401 01:05:57,360 --> 01:06:02,679 session at 522 it has to call on Deborah for presentation 1402 01:06:02,679 --> 01:06:05,800 of our ESA ordinance 1403 01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:09,480 vegetation we're back in session okay good evening 1404 01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:11,320 Commission my name is Deborah 1405 01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:15,599 Vera with environmental services we are back to resume our 1406 01:06:15,599 --> 01:06:17,280 conversation on the 1407 01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:22,679 proposed amendment to sub chapter 17 I would like my goal 1408 01:06:22,679 --> 01:06:24,079 for for this work 1409 01:06:24,079 --> 01:06:27,599 session is just to go over some definitions that the 1410 01:06:27,599 --> 01:06:28,760 Commission asked me 1411 01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:33,460 to to revise and to include and I have provided those in 1412 01:06:33,460 --> 01:06:34,880 this presentation I 1413 01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,800 believe Commissioner Roselle have some questions about 1414 01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:38,800 zoning and upland 1415 01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:42,690 habitat I have created a map and the analysis for for him 1416 01:06:42,690 --> 01:06:43,880 and I have provided 1417 01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:47,679 responses for every single public comment response I have I 1418 01:06:47,679 --> 01:06:48,559 will pull them 1419 01:06:48,559 --> 01:06:52,760 up step is available to go one by one if that's the desire 1420 01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:53,800 of the Commission or 1421 01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:57,619 specific questions that you may have I also have available 1422 01:06:57,619 --> 01:06:58,559 the previous 1423 01:06:58,559 --> 01:07:04,239 presentation just in case we wanted to revisit that last 1424 01:07:04,239 --> 01:07:05,639 time we spoke 1425 01:07:05,639 --> 01:07:10,679 Commissioner Sanchez asked us to be to provide a more clear 1426 01:07:10,679 --> 01:07:12,039 definition of what 1427 01:07:12,039 --> 01:07:15,250 upland habitat is there was some confusion about the 10 1428 01:07:15,250 --> 01:07:16,000 acres and being 1429 01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:20,559 contiguous versus being remnants so we did a small tweak 1430 01:07:20,559 --> 01:07:22,119 and pretty much we are 1431 01:07:22,119 --> 01:07:26,010 proposing to define it as a continuous areas 10 acres or 1432 01:07:26,010 --> 01:07:27,400 larger of cross timber 1433 01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:36,920 habitat okay is that clear does that meet your expectations 1434 01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:40,159 for me it's fine 1435 01:07:40,159 --> 01:07:42,710 I think it's more it's clear because now we're talking 1436 01:07:42,710 --> 01:07:45,039 about a 10 acre area you 1437 01:07:45,039 --> 01:07:48,599 know as opposed to the first one it makes you wonder if it 1438 01:07:48,599 --> 01:07:49,800 's remnants inside 1439 01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:56,019 of 10 acres in 10 acres this will make it sure it's 10 1440 01:07:56,019 --> 01:07:59,159 acres and above chairman 1441 01:07:59,159 --> 01:08:03,039 strange as goes to provide a definition of why wetland is 1442 01:08:03,039 --> 01:08:04,800 this is pretty much 1443 01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:08,789 we had a discussion over what we thought it was a wetland 1444 01:08:08,789 --> 01:08:11,800 but this is a more 1445 01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:16,560 formalized definition we are proposing to include this in 1446 01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:17,960 sub chapter 17 as 1447 01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:21,340 well as on sub chapter 23 where all the definitions are 1448 01:08:21,340 --> 01:08:22,760 okay will it also be in 1449 01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:31,319 the criteria manual correct we did the analysis of what 1450 01:08:31,319 --> 01:08:32,880 overland habitat are 1451 01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:37,359 left in the city on the left hand side you will see the 1452 01:08:37,359 --> 01:08:38,579 entire city what we 1453 01:08:38,579 --> 01:08:41,649 did we grouped the zoning district by those that are 1454 01:08:41,649 --> 01:08:43,319 completely residential 1455 01:08:43,319 --> 01:08:50,109 those are in green then you will see in red those zoning 1456 01:08:50,109 --> 01:08:51,600 districts that are all 1457 01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:55,039 commercial where residential users are not allowed and then 1458 01:08:55,039 --> 01:08:56,640 we have a mixed of 1459 01:08:56,640 --> 01:09:00,470 zoning district that they could allow both either rest 1460 01:09:00,470 --> 01:09:02,680 single-family duplex or 1461 01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:11,229 multifamily and we codified those as a yellow then we 1462 01:09:11,229 --> 01:09:14,439 analyze how much open 1463 01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:18,640 habitat are in those three categories either residential 1464 01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:19,640 mixed use or 1465 01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:25,720 commercial district 7% of the open habitat is within zoning 1466 01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:26,319 district that 1467 01:09:26,319 --> 01:09:32,399 will allow only some sort of commercial 48% is within 1468 01:09:32,399 --> 01:09:34,159 district that will allow 1469 01:09:34,159 --> 01:09:39,880 residential and 45% is within zoning district that could 1470 01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:40,800 allow both 1471 01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:44,159 residential or commercial at this point because those 1472 01:09:44,159 --> 01:09:45,680 zoning district allows 1473 01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:50,130 both activities we will not know how those as districts or 1474 01:09:50,130 --> 01:09:50,960 parcel will be 1475 01:09:50,960 --> 01:10:05,239 developed until we have a proposal. Staff received some 1476 01:10:05,239 --> 01:10:06,920 comments from from some of 1477 01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:09,640 the of the commissioners I have been trying to send 1478 01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:12,159 responses back however I 1479 01:10:12,159 --> 01:10:16,590 was not able to finish all of them there was a question 1480 01:10:16,590 --> 01:10:18,079 about the city's 1481 01:10:18,079 --> 01:10:23,310 jurisdiction to regulate floodplain in the ETJ floodplain E 1482 01:10:23,310 --> 01:10:25,479 SA this is a copy of 1483 01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:30,479 section 551.002 of the Texas Local Government Code that 1484 01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:31,399 talks about the 1485 01:10:31,399 --> 01:10:36,239 protection of streams and watershed by home municipalities 1486 01:10:36,239 --> 01:10:37,359 the reason that 1487 01:10:37,359 --> 01:10:41,250 give us that protection is for the protections of water 1488 01:10:41,250 --> 01:10:42,560 supply for any 1489 01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:49,560 municipality in this case will be Ray Roberts and Lake 1490 01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:51,119 Louisville. Provide the 1491 01:10:51,119 --> 01:10:56,239 protection for off and may police any watersheds and it is 1492 01:10:56,239 --> 01:10:58,239 that authority is 1493 01:10:58,239 --> 01:11:00,800 given not only within the city limits but also inside the 1494 01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:01,520 municipality's 1495 01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:05,000 extraterritorial jurisdiction. 1496 01:11:12,079 --> 01:11:16,079 There was also a question about what a structure is and 1497 01:11:16,079 --> 01:11:17,880 this is a straight from 1498 01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:22,319 sub chapter 23 is any edifice or any kind or any piece of 1499 01:11:22,319 --> 01:11:23,560 work artificially 1500 01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:26,729 built up or composed of parts joined together which require 1501 01:11:26,729 --> 01:11:27,840 location on in or 1502 01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:31,930 above the ground of which is attached to something having a 1503 01:11:31,930 --> 01:11:33,199 location on in or 1504 01:11:33,199 --> 01:11:38,369 above the ground. I believe Commissioner Sullivan have a 1505 01:11:38,369 --> 01:11:40,680 question about swimming 1506 01:11:40,680 --> 01:11:48,890 pools so if they were able to be allowed in the ESA because 1507 01:11:48,890 --> 01:11:50,479 it's not considered a 1508 01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:55,960 structure then they would be able to do that. 1509 01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:07,609 So I'm going to switch now and I apologize to the list of 1510 01:12:07,609 --> 01:12:11,359 public comments. 1511 01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:22,680 So staff went went back and provide answers for every 1512 01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:24,279 single public comment 1513 01:12:24,279 --> 01:12:28,710 some of them staff have modified or proposing new language 1514 01:12:28,710 --> 01:12:30,000 to address those 1515 01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:35,760 comments. There are at least 20 instances in in in this 1516 01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:37,840 list where staff is 1517 01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:41,520 proposing to modify the code or the proposed language to 1518 01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:42,760 address or to make 1519 01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:45,779 it more clear in those instances where the first attempt 1520 01:12:45,779 --> 01:12:47,680 was not clear enough or 1521 01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:52,909 there were some questions about it. I don't know if you 1522 01:12:52,909 --> 01:12:54,479 want me to go over 1523 01:12:54,479 --> 01:13:00,380 those or how do you want it to proceed? Commissioner Ellis. 1524 01:13:00,380 --> 01:13:01,680 Thank You Chair. I 1525 01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:03,930 don't know the answer to that question just yet because it 1526 01:13:03,930 --> 01:13:04,680 would be whatever 1527 01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:08,500 the Commission wants but with regard to where it's noted 1528 01:13:08,500 --> 01:13:10,039 that you'll be adding 1529 01:13:10,039 --> 01:13:15,680 or changing is that something as we vote on tonight that we 1530 01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:17,079 would have to 1531 01:13:17,079 --> 01:13:20,380 say is a condition of what we're recommending or have you 1532 01:13:20,380 --> 01:13:21,199 already made 1533 01:13:21,199 --> 01:13:24,619 these changes that are noted here? Well I have not made the 1534 01:13:24,619 --> 01:13:25,920 changes yet because I 1535 01:13:25,920 --> 01:13:30,010 would need a recommendation to go ahead but what we can do 1536 01:13:30,010 --> 01:13:31,560 is because I have the 1537 01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:36,010 sessions that they pertain to we can if the Commission is 1538 01:13:36,010 --> 01:13:37,479 ready to move into a 1539 01:13:37,479 --> 01:13:41,109 motion we can provide the list and say as amended in 1540 01:13:41,109 --> 01:13:42,920 section such and such and 1541 01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:46,949 then we will incorporate those changes and it would be verb 1542 01:13:46,949 --> 01:13:48,359 atim of what is 1543 01:13:48,359 --> 01:13:54,180 under the respond column. And just maybe to jump on what 1544 01:13:54,180 --> 01:13:55,920 you're saying I believe 1545 01:13:55,920 --> 01:14:01,060 you could you could approve the the changes in whole or you 1546 01:14:01,060 --> 01:14:02,319 can take them 1547 01:14:02,319 --> 01:14:06,239 item by item like that there remains a discretion of the 1548 01:14:06,239 --> 01:14:06,960 Council of the 1549 01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:09,239 Commission. 1550 01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:20,119 Commissioner Roselle. Thank you Chair. 1551 01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:30,050 So very helpful to have the responses here and I appreciate 1552 01:14:30,050 --> 01:14:31,760 that looks like a 1553 01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:36,039 lot of work so I appreciate that. On number eight legal 1554 01:14:36,039 --> 01:14:37,239 counsel's researching 1555 01:14:37,239 --> 01:14:40,420 procedural options I know we talked about this extensively 1556 01:14:40,420 --> 01:14:41,520 if the alternative 1557 01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:46,520 ESA should appropriately come through the P&Z as a zoning 1558 01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:47,680 case is there an 1559 01:14:47,680 --> 01:14:55,010 update on legal's opinion? So I think Mr. Beck you brought 1560 01:14:55,010 --> 01:14:56,319 the same the same 1561 01:14:56,319 --> 01:15:00,279 question and so let me see if I can if I can address that 1562 01:15:00,279 --> 01:15:06,279 succinctly. As I 1563 01:15:06,279 --> 01:15:09,640 mentioned previously just making sure what we're clear with 1564 01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:10,239 that this 1565 01:15:10,239 --> 01:15:18,159 pertains to alternative ESA plans because the designation 1566 01:15:18,159 --> 01:15:20,399 of an ESA the 1567 01:15:20,399 --> 01:15:24,119 determination of an ESA that appeal process is still being 1568 01:15:24,119 --> 01:15:24,960 presented through 1569 01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:31,039 zoning Board of Adjustment and the rationale behind that is 1570 01:15:31,039 --> 01:15:32,199 because the 1571 01:15:32,199 --> 01:15:35,909 determination of an ESA kind of limits staff to review the 1572 01:15:35,909 --> 01:15:37,840 parameters of some 1573 01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:40,579 whatever federal regulations they review and that's how 1574 01:15:40,579 --> 01:15:42,039 they determine if it is 1575 01:15:42,039 --> 01:15:45,880 or is not. Now the planning portion just like this 1576 01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:47,399 Commission is charged with 1577 01:15:47,399 --> 01:15:52,149 it's charged with planning and zoning and so it's permitted 1578 01:15:52,149 --> 01:15:53,359 to be reviewed 1579 01:15:53,359 --> 01:15:59,560 under this board under the City Council's ultimate 1580 01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,619 authority to determine all 1581 01:16:02,619 --> 01:16:05,199 things planning and zoning. They've delegated that to this 1582 01:16:05,199 --> 01:16:05,840 Commission and 1583 01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:12,159 therefore it would be an appropriate venue for that review. 1584 01:16:12,159 --> 01:16:13,239 Whether it's more 1585 01:16:13,239 --> 01:16:20,180 appropriate than Zoning Board of Adjustment that's what it 1586 01:16:20,180 --> 01:16:22,319 's counseled to decide 1587 01:16:22,319 --> 01:16:27,989 but it is it is an appropriate venue at P&Z for sure. I 1588 01:16:27,989 --> 01:16:29,960 think that makes sense 1589 01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:35,380 thanks. No I can clarify further if us attorneys have way 1590 01:16:35,380 --> 01:16:37,319 of talking. Well there was and 1591 01:16:37,319 --> 01:16:41,159 maybe chair or Commissioner Beck can refresh my memory 1592 01:16:41,159 --> 01:16:44,239 there was concern about the 1593 01:16:44,239 --> 01:16:49,800 historical political aspect of individuals coming before 1594 01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:50,680 the Commission 1595 01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:59,020 to do an alternative ESA just because it seems as a public 1596 01:16:59,020 --> 01:17:02,039 venue to kind of get 1597 01:17:02,039 --> 01:17:04,560 cloudy sometimes or it seems to be a straightforward 1598 01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:05,720 mitigation type 1599 01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:09,300 requirement in most cases and so I believe Mr. Allison from 1600 01:17:09,300 --> 01:17:10,159 the public was 1601 01:17:10,159 --> 01:17:14,079 here and spoke about this about it not needing to come 1602 01:17:14,079 --> 01:17:15,640 before zoning public 1603 01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:20,710 hearing item and I was wondering if if that is under our 1604 01:17:20,710 --> 01:17:22,720 purview to determine 1605 01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:28,000 the route in which an alternative ESA gets approved or does 1606 01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:29,920 it have to legally 1607 01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:36,479 it has to come to P&Z and then to City Council. Well again 1608 01:17:36,479 --> 01:17:37,640 the Hatch in this way 1609 01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:41,909 the P&Z has the full authority to review alternative ESA 1610 01:17:41,909 --> 01:17:44,920 plans so maybe I'll be 1611 01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:47,000 clear that way it does have the full authority to do that 1612 01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:48,640 and that story has been 1613 01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:53,439 delegated by the City Council. Currently the way it's 1614 01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:57,159 written this council is 1615 01:17:57,159 --> 01:18:00,199 charged with reviewing those any amendment to that would 1616 01:18:00,199 --> 01:18:00,840 have to ultimately 1617 01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:06,069 be approved by City Council. So if the Commission wanted to 1618 01:18:06,069 --> 01:18:07,800 find an alternative 1619 01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:14,170 route to file an alternative ESA that would be separate 1620 01:18:14,170 --> 01:18:16,800 from this ESA rewrite 1621 01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:21,970 or repeal that would be a different item that we need to 1622 01:18:21,970 --> 01:18:23,640 bring to council 1623 01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:28,710 separately from this? Not necessarily no you could you 1624 01:18:28,710 --> 01:18:29,880 could it could be a part 1625 01:18:29,880 --> 01:18:33,789 of the ESA rewrite or you could approve it as is and then 1626 01:18:33,789 --> 01:18:35,720 maybe revisit it later. 1627 01:18:35,720 --> 01:18:42,090 But in either case it would be an amendment that would have 1628 01:18:42,090 --> 01:18:43,119 to be approved by City Council. 1629 01:18:43,119 --> 01:18:48,399 Okay that makes much more sense thank you. 1630 01:18:48,399 --> 01:18:52,829 Commissioner Beck. Thank you chair and correct me if I'm 1631 01:18:52,829 --> 01:18:54,960 wrong Victor but what you 1632 01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:58,479 were telling me a while ago too that if it stays in the 1633 01:18:58,479 --> 01:19:01,039 domain of P&Z then it 1634 01:19:01,039 --> 01:19:06,609 takes just a simple majority to approve an AESA? At this 1635 01:19:06,609 --> 01:19:08,079 level correct. Right but 1636 01:19:08,079 --> 01:19:12,720 if it goes to ZBA it requires a super majority. It items 1637 01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:16,520 going before ZBA or 1638 01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:19,229 that's regulated by state statute and state statute 1639 01:19:19,229 --> 01:19:20,920 requires a majority. Okay 1640 01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:24,119 so personally I'd like to see it stay in our domain but I 1641 01:19:24,119 --> 01:19:25,600 would think developers 1642 01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:28,600 probably would too because it's an advantage to them that 1643 01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:29,199 they don't have 1644 01:19:29,199 --> 01:19:34,149 to fight a super majority versus just a basic majority. 1645 01:19:34,149 --> 01:19:35,279 Correct. That's just and and 1646 01:19:35,279 --> 01:19:38,199 to make that conversation complete there is a super 1647 01:19:38,199 --> 01:19:39,439 majority requirement if it's 1648 01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:45,810 denied by this board but nonetheless yes. I'd like to 1649 01:19:45,810 --> 01:19:48,760 comment on item 8 I think 1650 01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:52,979 the discussion is good I'd like to see it stay before P&Z. 1651 01:19:52,979 --> 01:19:54,319 One of the concerns I 1652 01:19:54,319 --> 01:19:58,859 have is it is somewhat of a nebulous standard to me it's 1653 01:19:58,859 --> 01:20:01,359 subjective. It is not 1654 01:20:01,359 --> 01:20:04,880 like we have in a lot of our other entrances that if you 1655 01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:05,960 want to take out 1656 01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:12,359 X number of caliper inches and canopy certain grass or 1657 01:20:12,359 --> 01:20:14,420 whatever you have to do 1658 01:20:14,420 --> 01:20:18,510 two to one or whatever and you do that and it's good it is 1659 01:20:18,510 --> 01:20:19,600 a subjective process 1660 01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:24,409 as I recall of trying to find a balance to satisfy staff to 1661 01:20:24,409 --> 01:20:26,079 then bring it versus 1662 01:20:26,079 --> 01:20:31,859 if you want to take out one tree you must provide four. I 1663 01:20:31,859 --> 01:20:33,960 don't recall there 1664 01:20:33,960 --> 01:20:41,039 being a very specific guidelines that if you want to do 1665 01:20:41,039 --> 01:20:41,960 that or need to do that 1666 01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:46,079 in your project this is what you do. Is it in my along the 1667 01:20:46,079 --> 01:20:47,680 lines of the current 1668 01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:51,869 and proposed procedure? The we for the first time we are 1669 01:20:51,869 --> 01:20:53,319 adding criteria for 1670 01:20:53,319 --> 01:20:56,399 approving an alternative ASA plan and I might be able to 1671 01:20:56,399 --> 01:20:57,920 pull that language from 1672 01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:05,229 the previous presentation. I believe providing in some 1673 01:21:05,229 --> 01:21:07,319 instances for example 1674 01:21:07,319 --> 01:21:11,819 when somebody is removing a repair and buffer and they don 1675 01:21:11,819 --> 01:21:12,760 't have nothing else 1676 01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:17,489 to mitigate another repair and buffer to mitigate and might 1677 01:21:17,489 --> 01:21:18,600 go to a upland 1678 01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:21,810 habitat and say well we will preserve above and beyond what 1679 01:21:21,810 --> 01:21:23,800 we are required to 1680 01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:29,680 mitigate for the for the repair and buffer. We try to what 1681 01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:31,319 I call find a 1682 01:21:31,319 --> 01:21:34,229 common currency between the two because there are different 1683 01:21:34,229 --> 01:21:35,119 habitats different 1684 01:21:35,119 --> 01:21:39,550 functions and so on but I believe that my recommendation 1685 01:21:39,550 --> 01:21:40,920 always be you start 1686 01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:44,550 working with what you have on your property. So in those 1687 01:21:44,550 --> 01:21:45,960 instances because 1688 01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:50,279 sometimes that the habitats are so different and sometimes 1689 01:21:50,279 --> 01:21:51,319 the habitat that 1690 01:21:51,319 --> 01:21:54,140 you have is not upland habitat you don't have trees you may 1691 01:21:54,140 --> 01:21:55,319 have water related and 1692 01:21:55,319 --> 01:22:00,989 so on. So establishing a specific quota in those instances 1693 01:22:00,989 --> 01:22:03,239 is kind of hard. That's 1694 01:22:03,239 --> 01:22:09,310 why staff left that open without not defining. However if 1695 01:22:09,310 --> 01:22:10,439 that's something 1696 01:22:10,439 --> 01:22:17,479 that you would like to be more specific and make a motion 1697 01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:19,720 to include that we can 1698 01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:23,239 certainly take that and move it forward to City Council. 1699 01:22:23,239 --> 01:22:24,359 But the reason why we 1700 01:22:24,359 --> 01:22:29,960 didn't specify quotas for for for mitigation is because 1701 01:22:29,960 --> 01:22:32,760 sometimes you have 1702 01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:35,720 to be a little bit flexible and creative depending on what 1703 01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:36,359 you got on your 1704 01:22:36,359 --> 01:22:40,069 property. Sure understand that completely and appreciate 1705 01:22:40,069 --> 01:22:41,319 that in the cases where 1706 01:22:41,319 --> 01:22:47,600 we don't have that where it is all upland or it's all water 1707 01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:48,479 and you need to 1708 01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:52,800 the street or whatever it seems like those we could define 1709 01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:53,520 it that if you're 1710 01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:56,729 doing it in this type of environmental area here's what you 1711 01:22:56,729 --> 01:22:57,560 have to do if it's 1712 01:22:57,560 --> 01:23:00,460 in that type of environmental area that's what you have to 1713 01:23:00,460 --> 01:23:01,199 do and then to 1714 01:23:01,199 --> 01:23:04,960 your point it totally changes the character of the area 1715 01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:06,079 well then those are 1716 01:23:06,079 --> 01:23:08,159 the gray areas that we leave the staff to say you know what 1717 01:23:08,159 --> 01:23:08,960 this is an out-of-the-box 1718 01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:13,489 situation and we'll figure it out because I know in the 1719 01:23:13,489 --> 01:23:15,119 past we've had 1720 01:23:15,119 --> 01:23:17,359 projects coming on I don't know how long people may have 1721 01:23:17,359 --> 01:23:19,800 taken to put together a 1722 01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:23,430 plan and what they've spent to try to work something just 1723 01:23:23,430 --> 01:23:24,760 to come here go yeah 1724 01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:29,930 don't like it and I don't know that that's served us well 1725 01:23:29,930 --> 01:23:31,600 as a commission I 1726 01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:34,670 think as a city we should have a very defined process just 1727 01:23:34,670 --> 01:23:35,600 like we do on so 1728 01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:38,850 many other things across our ordinances that if you want to 1729 01:23:38,850 --> 01:23:40,199 do this certain size 1730 01:23:40,199 --> 01:23:43,500 streets or certain size sidewalks and all those types of 1731 01:23:43,500 --> 01:23:44,560 things it's very 1732 01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:48,319 defined what you have to do but in these instances it's not 1733 01:23:48,319 --> 01:23:49,560 and I think it puts 1734 01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:54,060 us into a lot of questionable areas and it creates a lot of 1735 01:23:54,060 --> 01:23:55,279 additional time 1736 01:23:55,279 --> 01:23:58,909 expense that could be very clearly outlined that in these 1737 01:23:58,909 --> 01:23:59,880 cases it's this 1738 01:23:59,880 --> 01:24:03,079 this and this and if it's an outlier to your point we got 1739 01:24:03,079 --> 01:24:03,840 to figure something 1740 01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:06,739 else out so I think that would be something good for us to 1741 01:24:06,739 --> 01:24:07,359 talk about in 1742 01:24:07,359 --> 01:24:11,000 public session to maybe add that to motion we get to that 1743 01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:11,920 this evening 1744 01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:17,600 Commissioner Ellis thank you chair I guess my opinion and 1745 01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:18,720 get Deborah's 1746 01:24:18,720 --> 01:24:22,229 opinion I mean I guess the goal of ESA's are not for them 1747 01:24:22,229 --> 01:24:23,079 not to be disturbed 1748 01:24:23,079 --> 01:24:27,319 right and so I don't know that we want to make it easy with 1749 01:24:27,319 --> 01:24:29,399 an alternative ESA 1750 01:24:29,399 --> 01:24:34,520 plan so that we get into that they're always being 1751 01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:37,119 converted in some way so I 1752 01:24:37,119 --> 01:24:44,810 guess I can understand why why staff doesn't have super 1753 01:24:44,810 --> 01:24:48,000 specific things to do 1754 01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:51,170 for an alternative ESA because every site's different every 1755 01:24:51,170 --> 01:24:52,000 sites gonna have 1756 01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:54,640 something different on it and it would I would think have 1757 01:24:54,640 --> 01:24:55,560 to be a collaborative 1758 01:24:55,560 --> 01:24:59,380 effort with the development and the environmental services 1759 01:24:59,380 --> 01:25:00,720 department I mean 1760 01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:05,949 that's how I look at it so I don't know help help me to I 1761 01:25:05,949 --> 01:25:06,880 guess see it different 1762 01:25:06,880 --> 01:25:12,199 if sure let's talk about I appreciate the comment I guess 1763 01:25:12,199 --> 01:25:14,079 how I would see it 1764 01:25:14,079 --> 01:25:18,510 and maybe respond to your comment is we have areas in this 1765 01:25:18,510 --> 01:25:19,640 exact code that talks 1766 01:25:19,640 --> 01:25:22,069 about if you have utility improvements and those types of 1767 01:25:22,069 --> 01:25:22,800 things that are 1768 01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:26,500 necessary part to serve is very defined you have to re 1769 01:25:26,500 --> 01:25:27,479 vegetate it and put it 1770 01:25:27,479 --> 01:25:30,649 back pretty close to the natural state it's defined and I 1771 01:25:30,649 --> 01:25:31,720 that's where I'm 1772 01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:35,060 going is we can do it in that instance but we can't do it 1773 01:25:35,060 --> 01:25:36,359 in other places and 1774 01:25:36,359 --> 01:25:39,489 it makes it very subjective and it becomes a political 1775 01:25:39,489 --> 01:25:40,720 issue versus a very 1776 01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:44,880 defined hey if you need to it's not saying you can take the 1777 01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:46,239 whole thing out 1778 01:25:46,239 --> 01:25:51,189 but I think it should be somewhat defined that it makes it 1779 01:25:51,189 --> 01:25:51,920 more of a 1780 01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:58,989 workable and and probable determination of if you have to 1781 01:25:58,989 --> 01:26:00,079 put up street or a 1782 01:26:00,079 --> 01:26:02,810 utility or whatever through there this is what you need to 1783 01:26:02,810 --> 01:26:03,600 do to be able to do 1784 01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:06,149 it and becomes more of an administrative like when we do 1785 01:26:06,149 --> 01:26:06,600 plaques 1786 01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:09,479 comes before us here the criteria you need to meet them if 1787 01:26:09,479 --> 01:26:10,640 you meet them it's 1788 01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:15,920 proof versus the you know spend a lot of time and effort 1789 01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:16,640 and we may or may not 1790 01:26:16,640 --> 01:26:21,159 like it and not agree to it so that would be my thought 1791 01:26:21,159 --> 01:26:22,479 process on that may 1792 01:26:22,479 --> 01:26:26,640 be different than other commissioners but that's mine on 1793 01:26:26,640 --> 01:26:28,840 that particular issue 1794 01:26:30,359 --> 01:26:35,199 Commissioner Ellis thank you okay so so you said it's 1795 01:26:35,199 --> 01:26:36,960 defined yeah if it gets 1796 01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:40,109 disturbed to put in a sewer or whatever but you're putting 1797 01:26:40,109 --> 01:26:41,680 it back you're not 1798 01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:47,439 really taking it out permanently yeah well I think what the 1799 01:26:47,439 --> 01:26:48,279 ordinance says is 1800 01:26:48,279 --> 01:26:52,369 that it has to be contiguous I believe was what the 1801 01:26:52,369 --> 01:26:53,600 ordinance says is if you 1802 01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:56,550 have to do for Oberlin habitat that's that would be the 1803 01:26:56,550 --> 01:26:57,800 case it needs to be 1804 01:26:57,800 --> 01:27:00,300 contiguous to the other environment you can't just say that 1805 01:27:00,300 --> 01:27:01,079 well I'm gonna put 1806 01:27:01,079 --> 01:27:06,199 it over there it has to be like a utility road or something 1807 01:27:06,199 --> 01:27:07,399 else yeah you 1808 01:27:07,399 --> 01:27:10,920 have to put it back and it has to be part of the existing 1809 01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:12,359 the essay area and 1810 01:27:12,359 --> 01:27:15,710 so that's what this my thought about it is to try to work 1811 01:27:15,710 --> 01:27:16,640 up make it more 1812 01:27:16,640 --> 01:27:20,319 workable and more defined that you can look at it and 1813 01:27:20,319 --> 01:27:22,800 decide you know this is a 1814 01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:26,500 something that's worth the time in the effort to do or it's 1815 01:27:26,500 --> 01:27:28,000 a pass on the 1816 01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:31,130 front end rather than six months and tens of thousands of 1817 01:27:31,130 --> 01:27:32,000 dollars later 1818 01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:35,979 Commissioner Ellis thank you chair and I and I bet I 1819 01:27:35,979 --> 01:27:38,520 understand too but when 1820 01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:41,520 someone comes in with their development they don't they don 1821 01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:42,600 't necessarily know 1822 01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:45,359 what percentage of an ESA maybe they're going to affect by 1823 01:27:45,359 --> 01:27:46,479 because of this road 1824 01:27:46,479 --> 01:27:49,539 the way it's coming in and what they're gonna affect and 1825 01:27:49,539 --> 01:27:50,760 take out I don't know 1826 01:27:50,760 --> 01:27:55,090 if staff could come up with it with a defined you know this 1827 01:27:55,090 --> 01:27:56,399 is what you have 1828 01:27:56,399 --> 01:28:01,100 to do because every it all varies right I mean site by site 1829 01:28:01,100 --> 01:28:02,720 project by project I 1830 01:28:02,720 --> 01:28:07,720 mean I don't know how you would come to those specifics of 1831 01:28:07,720 --> 01:28:08,880 you know without 1832 01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:14,949 doing it on a case-by-case basis well that was my recommend 1833 01:28:14,949 --> 01:28:16,199 or just thrown out 1834 01:28:16,199 --> 01:28:18,659 for discussion since we're in work session is that you do 1835 01:28:18,659 --> 01:28:19,199 within the 1836 01:28:19,199 --> 01:28:23,170 environmental type area so if you have upland habitat you 1837 01:28:23,170 --> 01:28:23,960 have to do it and 1838 01:28:23,960 --> 01:28:26,680 restore it to like an upland habitat type if it's a rip 1839 01:28:26,680 --> 01:28:28,359 arian buffer whatever 1840 01:28:28,359 --> 01:28:30,739 those are that those are defined within and then went to 1841 01:28:30,739 --> 01:28:31,600 your point if it's 1842 01:28:31,600 --> 01:28:33,850 something else that you have a little bitty piece and that 1843 01:28:33,850 --> 01:28:34,479 's right in the 1844 01:28:34,479 --> 01:28:38,479 middle of a road and it is no longer going to be there then 1845 01:28:38,479 --> 01:28:39,399 that's the gray 1846 01:28:39,399 --> 01:28:44,090 area that staff comes in says okay you had a wetland hole 1847 01:28:44,090 --> 01:28:45,640 here and the road 1848 01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:48,199 goes right through the middle of it and it goes away so you 1849 01:28:48,199 --> 01:28:49,119 don't believe it and 1850 01:28:49,119 --> 01:28:52,149 you're gonna go do something else and work out with staff 1851 01:28:52,149 --> 01:28:53,279 to maybe plant trees 1852 01:28:53,279 --> 01:28:57,100 and an open space or whatever the case may be those become 1853 01:28:57,100 --> 01:28:57,880 the gray areas 1854 01:28:57,880 --> 01:29:02,939 rather than it there's no real standards of how do you 1855 01:29:02,939 --> 01:29:04,079 mitigate and do something 1856 01:29:04,079 --> 01:29:08,199 different on in each individual environmental area 1857 01:29:08,199 --> 01:29:09,359 commissioner Ellis 1858 01:29:09,359 --> 01:29:14,960 thank you do we need to define them when a alternative ESA 1859 01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:18,000 is needed then yeah 1860 01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:22,460 I'm confused because what yours you know again going back 1861 01:29:22,460 --> 01:29:23,119 to my original point 1862 01:29:23,119 --> 01:29:25,750 was you really don't ever want to disturb them I mean the 1863 01:29:25,750 --> 01:29:26,479 goal is to not 1864 01:29:26,479 --> 01:29:31,010 disturb them because they serve a role in protecting our 1865 01:29:31,010 --> 01:29:32,119 water supply and 1866 01:29:32,119 --> 01:29:36,920 whatnot air quality etc so the goal is not necessarily to 1867 01:29:36,920 --> 01:29:38,159 remove them and if 1868 01:29:38,159 --> 01:29:42,140 you do end up putting a road to just mimic that somewhere 1869 01:29:42,140 --> 01:29:43,159 else doesn't 1870 01:29:43,159 --> 01:29:47,470 necessarily work with the way an environmental sensitive 1871 01:29:47,470 --> 01:29:49,039 area works and you 1872 01:29:49,039 --> 01:29:52,420 can't just remake it over in another corner so again 1873 01:29:52,420 --> 01:29:53,800 getting to back to my 1874 01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:57,619 point of I don't know if we could come up with those 1875 01:29:57,619 --> 01:30:01,520 specifics and serve every 1876 01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:09,729 site properly okay Commissioner Sanchez one of the things I 1877 01:30:09,729 --> 01:30:11,079 think we leave out 1878 01:30:11,079 --> 01:30:14,899 when we talk about habitat is basically fragmentation you 1879 01:30:14,899 --> 01:30:15,800 know and I think 1880 01:30:15,800 --> 01:30:19,640 that's a big part when you're talking about it an urban 1881 01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:22,479 urban situation all 1882 01:30:22,479 --> 01:30:25,649 our habitat is really fragmented so to think that you're 1883 01:30:25,649 --> 01:30:26,720 gonna save something 1884 01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:30,350 you know you're gonna create a lot of habitat based on 1885 01:30:30,350 --> 01:30:31,760 little spot here little 1886 01:30:31,760 --> 01:30:34,500 spot here little spot there I mean we learned that you know 1887 01:30:34,500 --> 01:30:34,880 all you're 1888 01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:38,840 creating is actually a sinkhole you know species that are 1889 01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:40,399 really endangered I'm 1890 01:30:40,399 --> 01:30:43,409 gonna use those habitats because they're too small for us 1891 01:30:43,409 --> 01:30:45,779 to utilize so I guess 1892 01:30:45,779 --> 01:30:50,270 my question is I kind of find this especially in an urban 1893 01:30:50,270 --> 01:30:51,720 situation kind of 1894 01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:59,680 hard to talk about you're saving something because you're 1895 01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:00,199 fra actually 1896 01:31:00,199 --> 01:31:02,789 it's all fragmented anyway so you're not really doing a 1897 01:31:02,789 --> 01:31:03,680 whole lot of good you 1898 01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:06,819 might have ten acres but then if you go into those ten 1899 01:31:06,819 --> 01:31:08,119 acres and you fragment 1900 01:31:08,119 --> 01:31:10,640 that those ten acres you've reduced it and if there's 1901 01:31:10,640 --> 01:31:12,520 nothing else around you're 1902 01:31:12,520 --> 01:31:15,760 not doing a whole heck of a lot of good and the same thing 1903 01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:16,960 happens with your 1904 01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:21,449 your riparian areas you know if you just have a segment of 1905 01:31:21,449 --> 01:31:23,800 Creek within this when 1906 01:31:23,800 --> 01:31:30,649 we're talking about the urban urban areas you're not doing 1907 01:31:30,649 --> 01:31:31,279 a whole lot of 1908 01:31:31,279 --> 01:31:35,560 good by just creating a small little area protecting small 1909 01:31:35,560 --> 01:31:37,600 area so I just I 1910 01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:41,229 think we really have to visit it and spend more time and 1911 01:31:41,229 --> 01:31:42,399 understand what 1912 01:31:42,399 --> 01:31:46,829 fragment what effects you're having in an urban development 1913 01:31:46,829 --> 01:31:47,840 urban urban 1914 01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:53,069 situation and how fragmentation actually affects our our 1915 01:31:53,069 --> 01:31:54,640 habitat or doesn't even 1916 01:31:54,640 --> 01:31:58,060 you know what happens to a habitat once it becomes frag 1917 01:31:58,060 --> 01:31:59,239 mented when you're 1918 01:31:59,239 --> 01:32:02,149 talking about 10 15 acres you're not really providing 1919 01:32:02,149 --> 01:32:03,359 habitat for a species 1920 01:32:03,359 --> 01:32:09,560 it's already fragmented so it's a discussion that I don't 1921 01:32:09,560 --> 01:32:09,800 really 1922 01:32:09,800 --> 01:32:13,220 understand why we would even get into it you might have a 1923 01:32:13,220 --> 01:32:14,880 little pond here or a 1924 01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:18,680 little wet site here but if there's nothing close to it any 1925 01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:20,000 species that 1926 01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:24,720 that's going to exist there over time is going to fizzle 1927 01:32:24,720 --> 01:32:26,760 out and those are that's 1928 01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:30,390 why we protect those those sensitive areas because they're 1929 01:32:30,390 --> 01:32:31,000 supposed to 1930 01:32:31,000 --> 01:32:35,979 provide habitat for you know more sensitive species so it's 1931 01:32:35,979 --> 01:32:37,319 it's I don't 1932 01:32:37,319 --> 01:32:39,970 know if that even makes sense but I know we talked a lot 1933 01:32:39,970 --> 01:32:42,239 about fragments when I was working 1934 01:32:42,239 --> 01:32:47,210 in the biology that was a real concern is fragmentation and 1935 01:32:47,210 --> 01:32:49,359 so this whole 1936 01:32:49,359 --> 01:32:53,529 habitat here is fragmented and so spending so much time on 1937 01:32:53,529 --> 01:32:54,560 these little 1938 01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:58,850 areas doesn't really do a whole heck of a lot for for those 1939 01:32:58,850 --> 01:33:00,640 species that you're 1940 01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:07,270 trying to protect Commissioner Beck thank you chair I'm not 1941 01:33:07,270 --> 01:33:08,399 sure I totally agree 1942 01:33:08,399 --> 01:33:11,489 with the committee and mr. Sanchez is a position on frag 1943 01:33:11,489 --> 01:33:12,960 mentation I mean if we're 1944 01:33:12,960 --> 01:33:15,359 when we're talking about upland habitat we're talking about 1945 01:33:15,359 --> 01:33:16,119 a contiguous 10 1946 01:33:16,119 --> 01:33:19,800 acres that's a lot of land a lot of species can survive 1947 01:33:19,800 --> 01:33:21,039 there and some of 1948 01:33:21,039 --> 01:33:25,319 the species that utilize that area are transitional anyway 1949 01:33:25,319 --> 01:33:26,359 birds for instance 1950 01:33:26,359 --> 01:33:30,369 they'll feed on what praise there so we probably need to 1951 01:33:30,369 --> 01:33:31,920 take a closer look I 1952 01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:35,239 wouldn't I wouldn't set that example in stone I would 1953 01:33:35,239 --> 01:33:36,399 dispute it and we can take 1954 01:33:36,399 --> 01:33:39,199 a look at it and see if there is something to it but to 1955 01:33:39,199 --> 01:33:41,319 Commissioner 1956 01:33:41,319 --> 01:33:44,989 strength chairman training strangers just clear clarify 1957 01:33:44,989 --> 01:33:46,119 some for me if you would 1958 01:33:46,119 --> 01:33:51,979 sir are you concerned about those areas when we go in and 1959 01:33:51,979 --> 01:33:54,560 develop a piece of a 1960 01:33:54,560 --> 01:34:01,000 parcel of land where there isn't ESA I don't have a problem 1961 01:34:01,000 --> 01:34:02,560 I think we're going 1962 01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:05,619 to disrupt the land a little bit to put in the sewage line 1963 01:34:05,619 --> 01:34:06,560 or utility line 1964 01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:10,760 because we can restore that area I think satisfactorily it 1965 01:34:10,760 --> 01:34:12,039 what becomes a problem 1966 01:34:12,039 --> 01:34:15,069 I think to Commissioner Ellis is concerned is when you go 1967 01:34:15,069 --> 01:34:15,760 in actually 1968 01:34:15,760 --> 01:34:19,109 remove a chunk of land that you can't restore because you 1969 01:34:19,109 --> 01:34:20,399 put a large building 1970 01:34:20,399 --> 01:34:25,199 on there is that is that the dispute you're having the 1971 01:34:25,199 --> 01:34:26,520 conflict you're having 1972 01:34:26,520 --> 01:34:32,239 with alternate ESA is that it does limit some types of 1973 01:34:32,239 --> 01:34:32,939 development especially 1974 01:34:32,939 --> 01:34:36,520 when you get into you know bigger footprints does that make 1975 01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:37,479 any sense was 1976 01:34:37,479 --> 01:34:42,729 that sure okay your question makes perfect sense and and my 1977 01:34:42,729 --> 01:34:43,319 point in the 1978 01:34:43,319 --> 01:34:47,890 whole thing from a couple weeks ago and still tonight is it 1979 01:34:47,890 --> 01:34:49,199 's a subjective 1980 01:34:49,199 --> 01:34:54,579 process we've had them come before us before and it's 1981 01:34:54,579 --> 01:34:56,560 always a list of well we 1982 01:34:56,560 --> 01:34:58,829 they wanted this and we asked them for this and this and 1983 01:34:58,829 --> 01:35:00,520 this and this there's 1984 01:35:00,520 --> 01:35:08,220 not a description per se that you go in and say if you have 1985 01:35:08,220 --> 01:35:09,079 to do something in 1986 01:35:09,079 --> 01:35:15,199 a riparian whatever it is you have to recreate you know the 1987 01:35:15,199 --> 01:35:16,119 same amount or 1988 01:35:16,119 --> 01:35:19,550 twice as much or whatever that it's a defined process it's 1989 01:35:19,550 --> 01:35:20,560 always seems to be 1990 01:35:20,560 --> 01:35:24,380 an arbitrage arbitrary negotiation back and forth to try to 1991 01:35:24,380 --> 01:35:25,359 get it and then it 1992 01:35:25,359 --> 01:35:28,960 comes here and then it gets voted on and we decide whether 1993 01:35:28,960 --> 01:35:30,600 we liked the deal that 1994 01:35:30,600 --> 01:35:34,119 was made or not versus it's a really straightforward 1995 01:35:34,119 --> 01:35:35,640 process like so many 1996 01:35:35,640 --> 01:35:40,079 other things are that if you are going to go into that area 1997 01:35:40,079 --> 01:35:41,119 if you need to for 1998 01:35:41,119 --> 01:35:45,680 whatever the reason is as a property owner that there is a 1999 01:35:45,680 --> 01:35:47,119 process for you to 2000 01:35:47,119 --> 01:35:50,140 be able to do that under these circumstances and to meet 2001 01:35:50,140 --> 01:35:50,520 these 2002 01:35:50,520 --> 01:35:55,529 criteria and it's a more defined type of process and those 2003 01:35:55,529 --> 01:35:56,960 are my concerns as I 2004 01:35:56,960 --> 01:36:01,560 read the ordinance there's a there's a number of gray areas 2005 01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:02,760 and that's one of 2006 01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:06,460 them it's a very subjective it's not that it says if there 2007 01:36:06,460 --> 01:36:07,720 are 50 of these 2008 01:36:07,720 --> 01:36:15,020 it's this it's significant what's significant two blades 2009 01:36:15,020 --> 01:36:16,720 one salamander I 2010 01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:19,329 mean I don't know what significant means and so as I read 2011 01:36:19,329 --> 01:36:21,119 the ordinance those are 2012 01:36:21,119 --> 01:36:24,649 the things that that pop off the page and I go well first 2013 01:36:24,649 --> 01:36:25,680 we should set here 2014 01:36:25,680 --> 01:36:29,199 the standards and you meet the standards or not and then 2015 01:36:29,199 --> 01:36:30,199 everybody knows what they 2016 01:36:30,199 --> 01:36:33,109 are versus you really don't know and it's a subjective 2017 01:36:33,109 --> 01:36:33,880 process and that's 2018 01:36:33,880 --> 01:36:38,760 just a concern that I I have and it's along the same lines 2019 01:36:38,760 --> 01:36:46,239 commissioner back view of it these are probably the areas 2020 01:36:46,239 --> 01:36:46,920 that we need to 2021 01:36:46,920 --> 01:36:49,609 discuss specifically I don't think we're going to have a 2022 01:36:49,609 --> 01:36:50,640 hard time for talking 2023 01:36:50,640 --> 01:36:54,920 about you know a couple of square feet and a salamander to 2024 01:36:54,920 --> 01:36:56,239 lizards or anything 2025 01:36:56,239 --> 01:36:58,920 like that I think we're talking about large areas because 2026 01:36:58,920 --> 01:37:00,199 the more we lose 2027 01:37:00,199 --> 01:37:04,630 natural ecosystems the more we really lose as a community 2028 01:37:04,630 --> 01:37:05,720 preserving them if 2029 01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:09,840 you call it fragmentation okay but let's take a look and 2030 01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:10,479 see if that 2031 01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:14,159 fragmentation does benefit us in significant ways does 2032 01:37:14,159 --> 01:37:16,800 benefit the 2033 01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:23,000 natural elements in that animals grass the whole combined 2034 01:37:23,000 --> 01:37:24,680 thing yes it's 2035 01:37:24,680 --> 01:37:27,899 probably going to be subjective I agree but I think we as a 2036 01:37:27,899 --> 01:37:28,960 commission do that 2037 01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:31,989 we've got the staff we've got people of authority that can 2038 01:37:31,989 --> 01:37:33,039 come in and help us 2039 01:37:33,039 --> 01:37:35,449 answer some of those gray areas and that's something we 2040 01:37:35,449 --> 01:37:37,000 should debate it at 2041 01:37:37,000 --> 01:37:40,760 those times and and then when we have the public hearing 2042 01:37:40,760 --> 01:37:41,720 you know we can set 2043 01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:44,810 those forth and we can hear the complaints like we usually 2044 01:37:44,810 --> 01:37:45,520 do and weigh 2045 01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:48,680 them against the authoritative information that we've been 2046 01:37:48,680 --> 01:37:49,920 presented 2047 01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:54,359 well I would agree into to some regard there's a number of 2048 01:37:54,359 --> 01:37:55,279 different 2049 01:37:55,279 --> 01:37:57,510 environmental areas there's a upland habitat and I think it 2050 01:37:57,510 --> 01:37:58,039 's very easy to 2051 01:37:58,039 --> 01:38:02,159 identify that then there are the other ones which are rip 2052 01:38:02,159 --> 01:38:03,560 arian buffers and 2053 01:38:03,560 --> 01:38:07,000 water-related habitat and I think Commissioner Sanchez has 2054 01:38:07,000 --> 01:38:07,960 a great point I 2055 01:38:07,960 --> 01:38:10,439 know I've said that a new numerous times when we've had 2056 01:38:10,439 --> 01:38:11,600 these presentations 2057 01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:16,039 before is we may turn down a project and so we don't want 2058 01:38:16,039 --> 01:38:17,479 an ESA disturbed being 2059 01:38:17,479 --> 01:38:21,569 a riparian buffer or whatever and you pull up the city map 2060 01:38:21,569 --> 01:38:22,520 and there's 2061 01:38:22,520 --> 01:38:25,880 streets running all through it all around the whole area 2062 01:38:25,880 --> 01:38:26,840 and I look at it 2063 01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:30,029 and I go I don't understand why it's okay to do it in a 2064 01:38:30,029 --> 01:38:31,399 thousand places in 2065 01:38:31,399 --> 01:38:35,560 our city but this one place it's not and we're gonna deny 2066 01:38:35,560 --> 01:38:36,859 somebody the ability to 2067 01:38:36,859 --> 01:38:39,899 develop their property because we don't want to put another 2068 01:38:39,899 --> 01:38:41,279 road through an ESA 2069 01:38:41,279 --> 01:38:44,300 but there's a thousand of them already done throughout our 2070 01:38:44,300 --> 01:38:46,000 city that to me is 2071 01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:50,140 where I have a concern when I start reading these and I 2072 01:38:50,140 --> 01:38:51,600 know people looking 2073 01:38:51,600 --> 01:38:54,369 and I don't understand where that guy's coming from that's 2074 01:38:54,369 --> 01:38:55,359 where it doesn't make 2075 01:38:55,359 --> 01:38:58,720 sense to me is that we have done it a number of places all 2076 01:38:58,720 --> 01:39:00,000 over but for some 2077 01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:02,899 reason in this particular instance we're going to be 2078 01:39:02,899 --> 01:39:04,359 subjective and say no you 2079 01:39:04,359 --> 01:39:08,789 can't do it and I think that's where if we're going to 2080 01:39:08,789 --> 01:39:11,279 update the code it's 15 2081 01:39:11,279 --> 01:39:14,460 years I guess since it's been done maybe it's another 15 2082 01:39:14,460 --> 01:39:15,279 years before it gets 2083 01:39:15,279 --> 01:39:19,079 done again I'd like to see it be good because if this is 2084 01:39:19,079 --> 01:39:19,720 going to be the next 2085 01:39:19,720 --> 01:39:22,720 15 years it should be really straightforward and everybody 2086 01:39:22,720 --> 01:39:23,079 should be 2087 01:39:23,079 --> 01:39:26,859 able to pick it up and read it and say here's what you have 2088 01:39:26,859 --> 01:39:28,000 to do if you're 2089 01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:30,640 going to have a piece of property that has an ESA in the 2090 01:39:30,640 --> 01:39:31,840 city of Denton if 2091 01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:34,569 you're going to develop it or you're going to add on to 2092 01:39:34,569 --> 01:39:35,560 your house or what 2093 01:39:35,560 --> 01:39:38,720 are the whatever the instance is that you know 2094 01:39:38,720 --> 01:39:41,199 straightforward and eliminate 2095 01:39:41,199 --> 01:39:43,989 the subjective part and we may have a philosophical 2096 01:39:43,989 --> 01:39:45,520 difference about that and 2097 01:39:45,520 --> 01:39:48,239 that's okay we've done that in this Commission a ton of 2098 01:39:48,239 --> 01:39:48,920 time that's great 2099 01:39:48,920 --> 01:39:52,760 when we can all agree and it's 7-0 but it doesn't have to 2100 01:39:52,760 --> 01:39:54,279 be that way so that's 2101 01:39:54,279 --> 01:39:56,600 just my point of view and looking at this and what some of 2102 01:39:56,600 --> 01:39:57,439 my concerns are 2103 01:39:57,439 --> 01:40:00,979 and I don't disagree with you and I know you want to get in 2104 01:40:00,979 --> 01:40:01,039 here and I'll let you 2105 01:40:01,039 --> 01:40:05,600 Commissioner Beck thank you and I agree with you that 2106 01:40:05,600 --> 01:40:07,199 because of things we've 2107 01:40:07,199 --> 01:40:11,199 done in the past it's made things tougher now I think the 2108 01:40:11,199 --> 01:40:13,680 overall sentiment here 2109 01:40:13,680 --> 01:40:17,409 should be if we knew now if we knew then what we know now 2110 01:40:17,409 --> 01:40:19,039 we probably wouldn't 2111 01:40:19,039 --> 01:40:21,529 have done a lot of these things and I think what staff and 2112 01:40:21,529 --> 01:40:22,199 some of us are 2113 01:40:22,199 --> 01:40:25,399 trying to do is trying to correct it before it's too late 2114 01:40:25,399 --> 01:40:26,359 saying well we've 2115 01:40:26,359 --> 01:40:30,390 already screwed this up you know let's it's gonna affect 2116 01:40:30,390 --> 01:40:32,279 this so why stop us 2117 01:40:32,279 --> 01:40:35,479 from developing because we can't because it's not really 2118 01:40:35,479 --> 01:40:36,199 gonna hurt anything we've 2119 01:40:36,199 --> 01:40:39,109 done in the past I think we just need to make a stronger 2120 01:40:39,109 --> 01:40:40,720 effort to preserve what 2121 01:40:40,720 --> 01:40:46,039 we've got left significant areas and I think the 2122 01:40:46,039 --> 01:40:48,000 alternative ESA tries to do 2123 01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:51,840 that I think we can be fair and not over judgmental have 2124 01:40:51,840 --> 01:40:52,600 philosophical 2125 01:40:52,600 --> 01:40:55,090 differences but I want to base it on the facts I want to 2126 01:40:55,090 --> 01:40:56,279 base it on the science 2127 01:40:56,279 --> 01:40:58,560 and I think you know when we've got that kind of 2128 01:40:58,560 --> 01:41:00,260 information before us I think we 2129 01:41:00,260 --> 01:41:03,000 make sound decisions that benefit everybody I do think 2130 01:41:03,000 --> 01:41:03,960 developers are smart 2131 01:41:03,960 --> 01:41:07,640 enough to figure out how to utilize these natural areas to 2132 01:41:07,640 --> 01:41:08,880 their benefit and 2133 01:41:08,880 --> 01:41:12,220 make it the value it's not always going to be easy but you 2134 01:41:12,220 --> 01:41:12,680 know I've always said 2135 01:41:12,680 --> 01:41:16,300 if we send a man to the moon we ought to be able to develop 2136 01:41:16,300 --> 01:41:16,680 commercial and 2137 01:41:16,680 --> 01:41:21,960 residential areas that coexist with us what's there already 2138 01:41:21,960 --> 01:41:22,279 okay 2139 01:41:22,279 --> 01:41:30,109 Commissioner Ellis thank you chair I think be going back to 2140 01:41:30,109 --> 01:41:31,199 my point of each 2141 01:41:31,199 --> 01:41:34,039 site being specific I don't think we really know what's 2142 01:41:34,039 --> 01:41:35,279 there in an ESA I 2143 01:41:35,279 --> 01:41:38,909 don't think it's possible to do what you're wanting I 2144 01:41:38,909 --> 01:41:40,479 understand wanting 2145 01:41:40,479 --> 01:41:44,909 that logic all lined up and so there are no surprises but I 2146 01:41:44,909 --> 01:41:46,239 don't think I don't 2147 01:41:46,239 --> 01:41:49,130 think it's known what's on that particular site to be able 2148 01:41:49,130 --> 01:41:49,680 to come up 2149 01:41:49,680 --> 01:41:55,000 with all of those so is it the process I mean is it the 2150 01:41:55,000 --> 01:41:56,119 process of how it goes 2151 01:41:56,119 --> 01:42:00,039 and to where it goes to public hearing and then it possible 2152 01:42:00,039 --> 01:42:00,880 turns into a 2153 01:42:00,880 --> 01:42:04,229 political issue is is that something that maybe we should 2154 01:42:04,229 --> 01:42:05,239 look at that would 2155 01:42:05,239 --> 01:42:08,409 help things I just don't think that we can define what it 2156 01:42:08,409 --> 01:42:09,680 is you would like to 2157 01:42:09,680 --> 01:42:13,079 find I really don't think that I don't think that's what 2158 01:42:13,079 --> 01:42:14,199 this chapter of the 2159 01:42:14,199 --> 01:42:19,210 code it does I think I think this chapter defines what ESA 2160 01:42:19,210 --> 01:42:21,720 is and tries to 2161 01:42:21,720 --> 01:42:24,930 define a way that if someone has to disturb it and again 2162 01:42:24,930 --> 01:42:26,760 that's not what the 2163 01:42:26,760 --> 01:42:30,390 first mode is it's to protect it but if it needs to be 2164 01:42:30,390 --> 01:42:32,119 disturbed there is an 2165 01:42:32,119 --> 01:42:36,210 alternative way we can do that but I don't think it can be 2166 01:42:36,210 --> 01:42:37,279 specifically 2167 01:42:37,279 --> 01:42:40,699 defined I just don't think that's possible until the sites 2168 01:42:40,699 --> 01:42:41,920 there and it 2169 01:42:41,920 --> 01:42:45,920 gets assessed and and then it has to get worked out you 2170 01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:48,039 know you know in the best 2171 01:42:48,039 --> 01:42:52,029 way it can with the the subject matter experts so I just 2172 01:42:52,029 --> 01:42:53,520 don't think what you 2173 01:42:53,520 --> 01:42:56,220 want I just don't think it can be done I don't think with 2174 01:42:56,220 --> 01:42:57,319 all the knowledge that 2175 01:42:57,319 --> 01:43:00,420 Deborah and all in that department have I just don't think 2176 01:43:00,420 --> 01:43:01,000 they could come up 2177 01:43:01,000 --> 01:43:06,529 with every possibility on every site for an ESA so maybe 2178 01:43:06,529 --> 01:43:07,800 what we need to be 2179 01:43:07,800 --> 01:43:12,439 looking at is is a process maybe the process isn't fair 2180 01:43:12,439 --> 01:43:15,720 perhaps so those are 2181 01:43:15,720 --> 01:43:20,720 my thoughts well I would share with you and I appreciate 2182 01:43:20,720 --> 01:43:21,279 what you're saying and 2183 01:43:21,279 --> 01:43:25,079 and I think the the ordinance is specific that if it's 2184 01:43:25,079 --> 01:43:26,199 shown on their 2185 01:43:26,199 --> 01:43:30,229 city staff comes out and does a free assessment and they 2186 01:43:30,229 --> 01:43:31,640 will tell you what 2187 01:43:31,640 --> 01:43:35,359 your you have it you don't and what type and what are the 2188 01:43:35,359 --> 01:43:36,239 requirements of it so 2189 01:43:36,239 --> 01:43:39,060 it can be defined fairly easily and that's a service that 2190 01:43:39,060 --> 01:43:39,880 the city offers 2191 01:43:39,880 --> 01:43:44,600 free of charge I believe utilized it before for neighbors 2192 01:43:44,600 --> 01:43:45,359 and friends and said 2193 01:43:45,359 --> 01:43:49,079 hey call Deborah ever come out and look and she'd go you 2194 01:43:49,079 --> 01:43:49,800 don't have anything 2195 01:43:49,800 --> 01:43:54,039 here go ahead or you do and so I think that part works and 2196 01:43:54,039 --> 01:43:54,640 I don't have a 2197 01:43:54,640 --> 01:43:56,880 problem I think it's a great thing that the city offers 2198 01:43:56,880 --> 01:43:58,560 once it's determined 2199 01:43:58,560 --> 01:44:01,920 though that's where it goes off process wise for me of 2200 01:44:01,920 --> 01:44:04,000 being very subjective and 2201 01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:10,220 turning into an issue that how do you once different it's 2202 01:44:10,220 --> 01:44:12,359 not a this is what 2203 01:44:12,359 --> 01:44:16,789 you do that's just mine it may just be me but that's my 2204 01:44:16,789 --> 01:44:18,039 concern with my 2205 01:44:18,039 --> 01:44:22,250 perspective and background when I read it because it's not 2206 01:44:22,250 --> 01:44:24,159 really as I said 2207 01:44:24,159 --> 01:44:27,789 before it's real easy when everybody throws the word 2208 01:44:27,789 --> 01:44:29,560 developer those guys 2209 01:44:29,560 --> 01:44:33,119 just they'll pay for it it's really the it's the property 2210 01:44:33,119 --> 01:44:34,079 owner who has the 2211 01:44:34,079 --> 01:44:37,850 designation on their property who bears the expense and we 2212 01:44:37,850 --> 01:44:39,399 can put developer on 2213 01:44:39,399 --> 01:44:43,829 it all day long but it's the property owner they pay taxes 2214 01:44:43,829 --> 01:44:44,920 on it and all those 2215 01:44:44,920 --> 01:44:48,010 types of things and that's where my concern is is how far 2216 01:44:48,010 --> 01:44:48,960 are we going in 2217 01:44:48,960 --> 01:44:53,180 there and doing that and what remedies the property owners 2218 01:44:53,180 --> 01:44:54,359 have to do what they 2219 01:44:54,359 --> 01:44:58,289 want to with their property for the public good but yet at 2220 01:44:58,289 --> 01:44:59,479 what expense to 2221 01:44:59,479 --> 01:45:03,010 private individuals and that's just my thought and 2222 01:45:03,010 --> 01:45:04,359 Commissioner Sanchez and 2223 01:45:04,359 --> 01:45:09,359 anybody else's I just want it you know I think what we're 2224 01:45:09,359 --> 01:45:11,000 talking about it's when 2225 01:45:11,000 --> 01:45:13,840 you talk about habitat large areas we're not talking about 2226 01:45:13,840 --> 01:45:15,159 larger is this only 2227 01:45:15,159 --> 01:45:20,560 applies to city limits right we're not talking about 2228 01:45:20,560 --> 01:45:24,119 outside yes for the flood 2229 01:45:24,119 --> 01:45:28,869 plenty I say it applies in the ATJ just when you were 2230 01:45:28,869 --> 01:45:30,039 talking about upland 2231 01:45:30,039 --> 01:45:33,920 habitat that only applies to within the city limits right 2232 01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:34,960 that's what I'm saying 2233 01:45:34,960 --> 01:45:39,390 you don't have these big big areas of upland habitat within 2234 01:45:39,390 --> 01:45:40,600 the city limits 2235 01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:44,529 and so and that's going to be developed over time so all I 2236 01:45:44,529 --> 01:45:45,720 'm saying is you 2237 01:45:45,720 --> 01:45:51,510 create a lot of fragmentation and in the process you're you 2238 01:45:51,510 --> 01:45:52,800 said well there's 2239 01:45:52,800 --> 01:45:55,840 birds yeah there's generalist animals out there you know 2240 01:45:55,840 --> 01:45:57,079 what we would call 2241 01:45:57,079 --> 01:46:01,199 generalist but the ones you want to protect the habitat for 2242 01:46:01,199 --> 01:46:02,279 is for those that 2243 01:46:02,279 --> 01:46:04,420 aren't generalist the ones that require those type of 2244 01:46:04,420 --> 01:46:06,039 habitats and those are the 2245 01:46:06,039 --> 01:46:08,970 species that aren't going to I'm going to invade these 2246 01:46:08,970 --> 01:46:10,039 small areas they need 2247 01:46:10,039 --> 01:46:15,739 large second large peat parcels of land to exist so what 2248 01:46:15,739 --> 01:46:16,880 you're doing is yeah 2249 01:46:16,880 --> 01:46:19,260 you're you're protecting small areas but you're just 2250 01:46:19,260 --> 01:46:20,279 protecting it for the 2251 01:46:20,279 --> 01:46:25,920 generalist which they can survive anywhere so what I see is 2252 01:46:25,920 --> 01:46:26,960 you almost 2253 01:46:26,960 --> 01:46:30,590 have to look at this as excuse me you have to look at the 2254 01:46:30,590 --> 01:46:31,640 within the city 2255 01:46:31,640 --> 01:46:36,630 limits much different than you look at the you know outside 2256 01:46:36,630 --> 01:46:37,920 where you have 2257 01:46:37,920 --> 01:46:44,039 what's the word I want well not lake bottoms but outside 2258 01:46:44,039 --> 01:46:44,840 the city you know 2259 01:46:44,840 --> 01:46:48,270 where you have large parcels of land that that gets treated 2260 01:46:48,270 --> 01:46:49,000 a whole lot 2261 01:46:49,000 --> 01:46:51,590 different than within this and I think we're trying to 2262 01:46:51,590 --> 01:46:52,600 apply what we would 2263 01:46:52,600 --> 01:46:56,029 apply out there and we have large parcels of open land we 2264 01:46:56,029 --> 01:46:56,439 're trying to 2265 01:46:56,439 --> 01:46:58,670 apply that inside the city limits and it doesn't work 2266 01:46:58,670 --> 01:46:59,760 because you're not going to 2267 01:46:59,760 --> 01:47:04,319 get the same effects and and that's what we're trying to do 2268 01:47:04,319 --> 01:47:05,600 I don't we should 2269 01:47:05,600 --> 01:47:08,810 provide leave some of the habitat and well it's not habitat 2270 01:47:08,810 --> 01:47:09,760 we could leave 2271 01:47:09,760 --> 01:47:13,119 something like large require more trees require more things 2272 01:47:13,119 --> 01:47:14,239 like that but you're 2273 01:47:14,239 --> 01:47:18,689 still not gonna you're still not gonna create upland 2274 01:47:18,689 --> 01:47:21,159 habitat all you're gonna 2275 01:47:21,159 --> 01:47:24,800 do is protect certain areas upland habitat is different 2276 01:47:24,800 --> 01:47:27,199 than just trees you 2277 01:47:27,199 --> 01:47:30,350 have to have certain type of grasses that's when you talk 2278 01:47:30,350 --> 01:47:31,159 about upland 2279 01:47:31,159 --> 01:47:33,619 habitat you're talking about certain types of grasses you 2280 01:47:33,619 --> 01:47:34,399 're talking about and 2281 01:47:34,399 --> 01:47:37,779 you don't have it just because you know it's just not 2282 01:47:37,779 --> 01:47:39,159 creating it not in an 2283 01:47:39,159 --> 01:47:43,289 urban environment you were trying to go through here and I 2284 01:47:43,289 --> 01:47:44,680 'll get back on topic 2285 01:47:44,680 --> 01:47:47,500 and I'm probably the worst culprit of all so we'll make 2286 01:47:47,500 --> 01:47:49,079 sure we go well we can go 2287 01:47:49,079 --> 01:47:53,170 over line by line or you can actually highlight the points 2288 01:47:53,170 --> 01:47:53,800 that you want to 2289 01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:56,680 revisit is completely up to you let me recognize 2290 01:47:56,680 --> 01:47:57,439 Commissioner O'Zell 2291 01:47:57,439 --> 01:47:59,479 they sure I was gonna linger on this just one more moment 2292 01:47:59,479 --> 01:48:00,159 as much as I would 2293 01:48:00,159 --> 01:48:04,000 like to progress there's two things that's one to respond 2294 01:48:04,000 --> 01:48:04,279 to and 2295 01:48:04,279 --> 01:48:06,199 add my two cents to it I think it's a good conversation I 2296 01:48:06,199 --> 01:48:06,680 don't know 2297 01:48:06,680 --> 01:48:11,630 ultimately how it gets taken into consideration because it 2298 01:48:11,630 --> 01:48:12,439 's your else's 2299 01:48:12,439 --> 01:48:15,859 point it does seem like an ambiguous task to try to define 2300 01:48:15,859 --> 01:48:16,840 but the two things 2301 01:48:16,840 --> 01:48:20,529 that I wanted to note is one Christianer back so we should 2302 01:48:20,529 --> 01:48:21,399 make every effort to 2303 01:48:21,399 --> 01:48:24,159 preserve environmentally sensitive areas I wholeheartedly 2304 01:48:24,159 --> 01:48:26,399 agree I go back to the 2305 01:48:26,399 --> 01:48:29,489 fact that it seems like staff wants to protect at different 2306 01:48:29,489 --> 01:48:30,560 values depending on 2307 01:48:30,560 --> 01:48:32,789 use and I don't know if that's communicating a good message 2308 01:48:32,789 --> 01:48:32,960 to the 2309 01:48:32,960 --> 01:48:35,560 citizens to say commercial property don't have to keep this 2310 01:48:35,560 --> 01:48:36,199 much habitat 2311 01:48:36,199 --> 01:48:40,220 residents you can keep this much habitat if we're about ag 2312 01:48:40,220 --> 01:48:41,640 nostically looking at 2313 01:48:41,640 --> 01:48:47,000 protecting ESA's which seems to be your your contention I'm 2314 01:48:47,000 --> 01:48:48,560 still going back to 2315 01:48:48,560 --> 01:48:50,470 the fact that doesn't seem like the city and the way they 2316 01:48:50,470 --> 01:48:51,199 're writing this is 2317 01:48:51,199 --> 01:48:53,899 saying we're gonna protect them regardless of use because 2318 01:48:53,899 --> 01:48:54,560 depending on 2319 01:48:54,560 --> 01:48:56,789 what use a developer or property owner wants to do with 2320 01:48:56,789 --> 01:48:58,600 that we protect habitats 2321 01:48:58,600 --> 01:49:02,420 differently which still kind of again a second time I've 2322 01:49:02,420 --> 01:49:03,760 put on this gives me a 2323 01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:07,399 little friction so that's one thing the other thing 2324 01:49:07,399 --> 01:49:09,800 Christian else you said it's not possible to do this we can 2325 01:49:09,800 --> 01:49:10,319 't define it 2326 01:49:10,319 --> 01:49:12,810 there's nowhere in code to do that in regards to an 2327 01:49:12,810 --> 01:49:14,279 alternative environmentally 2328 01:49:14,279 --> 01:49:21,609 sensitive area plan but it looks like in 3517 1b it's the 2329 01:49:21,609 --> 01:49:22,399 exact place to do it 2330 01:49:22,399 --> 01:49:25,819 that's that's where we we would do all these things one 2331 01:49:25,819 --> 01:49:27,520 says mitigation goals 2332 01:49:27,520 --> 01:49:29,909 are obtained by creating expanding or improving 2333 01:49:29,909 --> 01:49:31,680 environmentally sensitive areas 2334 01:49:31,680 --> 01:49:35,359 and a chair's point let's define that let's define 2335 01:49:35,359 --> 01:49:37,399 mitigation goal if we're 2336 01:49:37,399 --> 01:49:41,029 looking to obtain it here let's define it and and we've we 2337 01:49:41,029 --> 01:49:42,640 've seen I've seen 2338 01:49:42,640 --> 01:49:45,350 enough projects and I think the city's pricing of projects 2339 01:49:45,350 --> 01:49:46,079 so we can start 2340 01:49:46,079 --> 01:49:51,710 aggregately looking at processes we know that in Buc-E's on 2341 01:49:51,710 --> 01:49:52,920 the riparian buffer 2342 01:49:52,920 --> 01:49:56,770 what was good enough for P&Z was X we know that the 2343 01:49:56,770 --> 01:49:58,920 Commission although split 2344 01:49:58,920 --> 01:50:03,729 approved some level of definition and so it does seem 2345 01:50:03,729 --> 01:50:05,119 possible if it was the 2346 01:50:05,119 --> 01:50:08,750 Commission's intent to actually define these things if 2347 01:50:08,750 --> 01:50:11,039 there's I'm not gonna 2348 01:50:11,039 --> 01:50:12,920 spitball on all of them but if there's 50 foot of riparian 2349 01:50:12,920 --> 01:50:13,720 buffer you're taking 2350 01:50:13,720 --> 01:50:17,979 away mitigate it with a percent of this there's to say that 2351 01:50:17,979 --> 01:50:19,079 it can't be done 2352 01:50:19,079 --> 01:50:23,800 there's no there's not in code to do that might be a little 2353 01:50:23,800 --> 01:50:24,760 short-sighted to 2354 01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:28,960 what I'm actually reading and the potential of the 2355 01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:30,439 Commission to actually 2356 01:50:30,439 --> 01:50:36,510 define it commissioner Ellis thank you chair okay first of 2357 01:50:36,510 --> 01:50:37,199 all I never said 2358 01:50:37,199 --> 01:50:40,409 there's nowhere in the code to do that that I don't know 2359 01:50:40,409 --> 01:50:41,439 you misheard me or 2360 01:50:41,439 --> 01:50:44,409 certainly I did not say that I said it would be very 2361 01:50:44,409 --> 01:50:45,800 difficult to think of 2362 01:50:45,800 --> 01:50:49,939 everything because every site and what it's ESA on that 2363 01:50:49,939 --> 01:50:51,439 particular site is 2364 01:50:51,439 --> 01:50:55,960 doing has and whatnot I didn't say there was nowhere to do 2365 01:50:55,960 --> 01:50:57,079 that I said it would 2366 01:50:57,079 --> 01:50:59,850 be incredibly difficult to do that because I don't think we 2367 01:50:59,850 --> 01:51:00,560 could come up 2368 01:51:00,560 --> 01:51:05,380 with or they could come up with every scenario that's why I 2369 01:51:05,380 --> 01:51:06,760 think the process 2370 01:51:06,760 --> 01:51:11,020 of looking at each site if we're gonna have a section that 2371 01:51:11,020 --> 01:51:12,760 it gets looked at 2372 01:51:12,760 --> 01:51:17,199 see what it has see what it I think this is a compromise 2373 01:51:17,199 --> 01:51:18,479 with regard to your 2374 01:51:18,479 --> 01:51:22,109 point with commercial and residential and in its percentage 2375 01:51:22,109 --> 01:51:23,479 different it's to 2376 01:51:23,479 --> 01:51:27,560 try to make the project work so we don't we always allow 2377 01:51:27,560 --> 01:51:28,800 for more development on 2378 01:51:28,800 --> 01:51:31,800 a commercial site there's way more of the site used up on a 2379 01:51:31,800 --> 01:51:32,279 commercial 2380 01:51:32,279 --> 01:51:34,510 development than there is on a residential site so we do 2381 01:51:34,510 --> 01:51:35,039 that all the 2382 01:51:35,039 --> 01:51:39,869 time in city development and so I think this is if you 2383 01:51:39,869 --> 01:51:41,319 tried to do the same 2384 01:51:41,319 --> 01:51:44,199 thing you're not going to get a commercial project done so 2385 01:51:44,199 --> 01:51:44,880 you do have 2386 01:51:44,880 --> 01:51:48,720 to have a smaller percentage there with regard to I think 2387 01:51:48,720 --> 01:51:50,039 that is what the third 2388 01:51:50,039 --> 01:51:53,090 yeah it's to be able to get it done or the commercial sites 2389 01:51:53,090 --> 01:51:53,840 not gonna happen so 2390 01:51:53,840 --> 01:51:57,130 I think that's just a real-life scenario that's just the 2391 01:51:57,130 --> 01:51:58,680 way it is and and so I 2392 01:51:58,680 --> 01:52:02,560 think that staff's way of trying to to compromise because 2393 01:52:02,560 --> 01:52:03,760 in the end that's 2394 01:52:03,760 --> 01:52:06,640 what this should be it shouldn't be us versus them kind of 2395 01:52:06,640 --> 01:52:07,479 thing it's not that 2396 01:52:07,479 --> 01:52:12,430 the developers are evil because they want to disrupt an ESA 2397 01:52:12,430 --> 01:52:13,800 but you know 2398 01:52:13,800 --> 01:52:16,569 subject matter experts on ESA which is not me and probably 2399 01:52:16,569 --> 01:52:17,560 none of us sitting 2400 01:52:17,560 --> 01:52:23,970 here maybe you're by long you know we have to go with what 2401 01:52:23,970 --> 01:52:24,720 what they are 2402 01:52:24,720 --> 01:52:28,909 saying needs protection with what the developers need to 2403 01:52:28,909 --> 01:52:30,039 get it done and come 2404 01:52:30,039 --> 01:52:33,670 up with a compromise and to me that's what an AESA is for 2405 01:52:33,670 --> 01:52:34,760 whether or not the 2406 01:52:34,760 --> 01:52:38,079 process needs to be changed so it doesn't get to that 2407 01:52:38,079 --> 01:52:39,520 heated point so that 2408 01:52:39,520 --> 01:52:43,659 it can get to that compromise because again I just don't 2409 01:52:43,659 --> 01:52:44,840 know they've worked 2410 01:52:44,840 --> 01:52:47,239 on this for 13 months they could probably go back and work 2411 01:52:47,239 --> 01:52:47,920 on it for 26 2412 01:52:47,920 --> 01:52:52,609 more and they're not gonna be able to define the perfect 2413 01:52:52,609 --> 01:52:53,880 scenario for every 2414 01:52:53,880 --> 01:52:57,260 site when we're gonna disturb the one of these areas that's 2415 01:52:57,260 --> 01:52:58,260 just my real quick 2416 01:52:58,260 --> 01:53:02,840 chair Commissioner Oso thanks all good points thank you my 2417 01:53:02,840 --> 01:53:03,479 point to the 2418 01:53:03,479 --> 01:53:05,590 commercial residential let's just reduce residential it 2419 01:53:05,590 --> 01:53:06,479 just seems odd to me the 2420 01:53:06,479 --> 01:53:10,600 developer buys these property there's trees on it and then 2421 01:53:10,600 --> 01:53:11,800 based on what they 2422 01:53:11,800 --> 01:53:16,520 plan to use the the land for the city says we we value 2423 01:53:16,520 --> 01:53:18,199 those trees differently 2424 01:53:18,199 --> 01:53:21,619 so I'm not I understand your your perspective and I think 2425 01:53:21,619 --> 01:53:22,439 the cities I 2426 01:53:22,439 --> 01:53:26,069 think I get the development requirements for commercial it 2427 01:53:26,069 --> 01:53:27,479 just seems odd to me 2428 01:53:27,479 --> 01:53:30,600 that based on use we value the trees differently that's how 2429 01:53:30,600 --> 01:53:31,520 it's communicated 2430 01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:34,560 to me whether that's the intention I'm not maybe it's not 2431 01:53:34,560 --> 01:53:35,079 that's how it's being 2432 01:53:35,079 --> 01:53:40,090 communicated so I'm all for doing like I would prefer to 2433 01:53:40,090 --> 01:53:41,520 reduce the residential 2434 01:53:41,520 --> 01:53:44,420 requirement to make it equal then try I'm not advocating to 2435 01:53:44,420 --> 01:53:45,359 raise commercial 2436 01:53:45,359 --> 01:53:47,239 per se it's just odd to me that there's there's a 2437 01:53:47,239 --> 01:53:48,680 difference to begin with maybe 2438 01:53:48,680 --> 01:53:51,180 I'm the only one that's fine but that's where that's where 2439 01:53:51,180 --> 01:53:52,000 my contention is with 2440 01:53:52,000 --> 01:53:57,010 that I'm gonna move us forward on your list and since we're 2441 01:53:57,010 --> 01:53:57,800 just going to it 2442 01:53:57,800 --> 01:54:03,220 the next one I had a question on is number 22 and the 2443 01:54:03,220 --> 01:54:04,880 response which I 2444 01:54:04,880 --> 01:54:09,180 appreciate is in regards to what the Parks Department will 2445 01:54:09,180 --> 01:54:11,359 accept as far as 2446 01:54:11,359 --> 01:54:16,609 the essays and and it kind of gets back to the similar 2447 01:54:16,609 --> 01:54:17,600 issue that well I know 2448 01:54:17,600 --> 01:54:22,550 I've talked about before is that if anyone should champion 2449 01:54:22,550 --> 01:54:24,000 the essays 2450 01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:27,149 whether they be upland habitat or any of these areas it 2451 01:54:27,149 --> 01:54:29,199 should be the city and it 2452 01:54:29,199 --> 01:54:32,409 should be if it's public policy the city should be bearing 2453 01:54:32,409 --> 01:54:33,439 the responsibility 2454 01:54:33,439 --> 01:54:36,560 rather than we keep coming to individual property owners 2455 01:54:36,560 --> 01:54:37,760 and the response here is 2456 01:54:37,760 --> 01:54:40,970 that parks may not want it because it's got too much ESA on 2457 01:54:40,970 --> 01:54:42,859 it and that's the 2458 01:54:42,859 --> 01:54:48,520 concern that I have that we have with these discussions I 2459 01:54:48,520 --> 01:54:50,439 understand the 2460 01:54:50,439 --> 01:54:54,789 concern about preserving these things the city doesn't want 2461 01:54:54,789 --> 01:54:56,319 to buy them parks 2462 01:54:56,319 --> 01:55:00,750 doesn't want them but we make private individuals do it and 2463 01:55:00,750 --> 01:55:02,479 that's where I go 2464 01:55:02,479 --> 01:55:07,930 off the rail and go I don't get it and so I appreciate the 2465 01:55:07,930 --> 01:55:08,880 response and it 2466 01:55:08,880 --> 01:55:12,829 affirms the concern and the one of the points of view I 2467 01:55:12,829 --> 01:55:14,520 have with these is that 2468 01:55:14,520 --> 01:55:18,960 if we as a city are going to mandate these things then we 2469 01:55:18,960 --> 01:55:20,520 should make it the 2470 01:55:20,520 --> 01:55:23,880 public policy should be publicly wrong we're having to do 2471 01:55:23,880 --> 01:55:25,479 them in parks up in 2472 01:55:25,479 --> 01:55:27,739 habitat and we're booming parks and all these other things 2473 01:55:27,739 --> 01:55:28,439 rather than keep 2474 01:55:28,439 --> 01:55:33,479 coming to developers ie private property owners and so you 2475 01:55:33,479 --> 01:55:34,439 guys have to do it but 2476 01:55:34,439 --> 01:55:38,359 we aren't so that's my comment on 22 I don't know if 2477 01:55:38,359 --> 01:55:39,840 anybody has any other ones 2478 01:55:39,840 --> 01:55:46,039 on the list commissioner Beck thank you chair if I could 2479 01:55:46,039 --> 01:55:46,800 and I don't mean step 2480 01:55:46,800 --> 01:55:49,850 on anybody's toes here but if we can unless there's 2481 01:55:49,850 --> 01:55:52,119 something else in here as 2482 01:55:52,119 --> 01:55:56,010 far as their responses to the comments I didn't see 2483 01:55:56,010 --> 01:55:57,720 anything that I could 2484 01:55:57,720 --> 01:56:00,750 disagree with that we could move forward with but I would 2485 01:56:00,750 --> 01:56:02,359 like to give mr. 2486 01:56:02,359 --> 01:56:07,310 Allison a chance because this group DCDA provided about two 2487 01:56:07,310 --> 01:56:08,359 -thirds of the 2488 01:56:08,359 --> 01:56:12,199 questions here and give him an opportunity to explain to us 2489 01:56:12,199 --> 01:56:13,079 any 2490 01:56:13,079 --> 01:56:16,840 responses here he feels need correction or something like 2491 01:56:16,840 --> 01:56:18,560 that because when our 2492 01:56:18,560 --> 01:56:22,399 last PNC meeting he raised the question that he didn't feel 2493 01:56:22,399 --> 01:56:23,119 like he got any 2494 01:56:23,119 --> 01:56:25,880 adequate response from the city and I'd like to give him an 2495 01:56:25,880 --> 01:56:27,359 opportunity to see 2496 01:56:27,359 --> 01:56:30,319 if there's a need for something that could change my mind 2497 01:56:30,319 --> 01:56:31,399 as far as all these 2498 01:56:31,399 --> 01:56:34,479 responses go and anybody else here on the Commission does 2499 01:56:34,479 --> 01:56:35,319 that seem reasonable 2500 01:56:35,319 --> 01:56:39,550 on my I think we would definitely be doing that during our 2501 01:56:39,550 --> 01:56:40,479 public meeting 2502 01:56:40,479 --> 01:56:44,239 okay absolutely okay I thought we'd give him a shot here in 2503 01:56:44,239 --> 01:56:47,199 the work session if 2504 01:56:47,199 --> 01:56:50,640 we have time if we don't if we have time yeah I have a if 2505 01:56:50,640 --> 01:56:51,359 you don't have any 2506 01:56:51,359 --> 01:56:53,869 other I have a few other ones on the ordinance itself like 2507 01:56:53,869 --> 01:56:54,479 say I didn't mean 2508 01:56:54,479 --> 01:56:59,439 step anybody's toes okay does anybody else have a question 2509 01:56:59,439 --> 01:57:00,600 on the public 2510 01:57:00,600 --> 01:57:04,279 comments section so we can at least get through this one 2511 01:57:04,279 --> 01:57:05,760 and I appreciate city 2512 01:57:05,760 --> 01:57:07,960 staff taking the time to go through and give the responses 2513 01:57:07,960 --> 01:57:08,760 I think it's helpful 2514 01:57:08,760 --> 01:57:12,850 and it's a good example for us to set for everybody else 2515 01:57:12,850 --> 01:57:14,239 what we ask them to 2516 01:57:14,239 --> 01:57:20,439 do so thank you for that anybody else on public comments on 2517 01:57:20,439 --> 01:57:20,640 the 2518 01:57:20,640 --> 01:57:32,199 ordinance itself I think you've addressed this question 2519 01:57:32,199 --> 01:57:35,199 that I had in 2520 01:57:35,199 --> 01:57:43,859 section 35 17.5 D I appreciate the definition of the wet 2521 01:57:43,859 --> 01:57:45,560 land and look 2522 01:57:45,560 --> 01:57:49,210 forward to having that there's a there's another just a few 2523 01:57:49,210 --> 01:57:50,239 words later it says 2524 01:57:50,239 --> 01:57:57,449 significant stands and I just had a question of you know 2525 01:57:57,449 --> 01:57:59,119 what what is what's 2526 01:57:59,119 --> 01:58:02,369 the determination of significant significant is more than 2527 01:58:02,369 --> 01:58:03,520 50% more than 2528 01:58:03,520 --> 01:58:08,119 50% and we can definitely substitute the word significant 2529 01:58:08,119 --> 01:58:10,720 for 50% if that's 2530 01:58:10,720 --> 01:58:13,479 something that you would like I think it's great to 2531 01:58:13,479 --> 01:58:14,760 quantify it so we know 2532 01:58:14,760 --> 01:58:20,920 what it what it is I would appreciate the clarification I 2533 01:58:20,920 --> 01:58:23,239 have a second note 2534 01:58:23,239 --> 01:58:27,439 and I think I made comment on a couple weeks ago how is the 2535 01:58:27,439 --> 01:58:29,760 general public or 2536 01:58:29,760 --> 01:58:33,649 the professional communities supposed to be able to find 2537 01:58:33,649 --> 01:58:35,319 this information and be 2538 01:58:35,319 --> 01:58:39,350 able to incorporate it for example like in a typical phase 2539 01:58:39,350 --> 01:58:41,920 one report I called 2540 01:58:41,920 --> 01:58:45,880 the company that does phase ones for me and I asked what's 2541 01:58:45,880 --> 01:58:47,119 the process you go 2542 01:58:47,119 --> 01:58:50,390 through because we're reviewing this with an ESA and it 2543 01:58:50,390 --> 01:58:51,119 needs to be 2544 01:58:51,119 --> 01:58:54,800 transparent that everybody can look at because a need a 2545 01:58:54,800 --> 01:58:56,239 phase one report is an 2546 01:58:56,239 --> 01:58:59,750 environmental report it's a commonly you're not going to 2547 01:58:59,750 --> 01:59:01,199 get a loan without a 2548 01:59:01,199 --> 01:59:04,159 phase one report and it's a it's an environmental report on 2549 01:59:04,159 --> 01:59:04,960 every piece of 2550 01:59:04,960 --> 01:59:07,840 property that's that's up for sale or contemplating be 2551 01:59:07,840 --> 01:59:08,920 purchased lenders 2552 01:59:08,920 --> 01:59:13,239 require them people rely on those and close transactions 2553 01:59:13,239 --> 01:59:14,880 based on is there 2554 01:59:14,880 --> 01:59:20,949 environmental issue or not and the concern I have is how 2555 01:59:20,949 --> 01:59:23,119 can people be 2556 01:59:23,119 --> 01:59:28,199 notified of our city of dent criteria that may be different 2557 01:59:28,199 --> 01:59:32,159 than for example 2558 01:59:32,159 --> 01:59:36,390 the wetlands inventories and some of the typical places 2559 01:59:36,390 --> 01:59:38,039 that all of these people 2560 01:59:38,039 --> 01:59:42,369 go to and say that our property doesn't have it but because 2561 01:59:42,369 --> 01:59:43,800 of our definition or 2562 01:59:43,800 --> 01:59:46,260 what we call it doesn't show up until you've already 2563 01:59:46,260 --> 01:59:47,560 purchased the property 2564 01:59:47,560 --> 01:59:52,220 and then and I have an assessment and we got an ESA or 2565 01:59:52,220 --> 01:59:55,279 whatever on it so I don't 2566 01:59:55,279 --> 02:00:00,119 know how that gets done okay the ESA layers are available 2567 02:00:00,119 --> 02:00:00,960 online as a part of 2568 02:00:00,960 --> 02:00:04,960 the city interactive map that's where we provide them and 2569 02:00:04,960 --> 02:00:05,760 accessible to the 2570 02:00:05,760 --> 02:00:08,329 public so in that way they can zoom in zoom out and these 2571 02:00:08,329 --> 02:00:09,520 days everything goes 2572 02:00:09,520 --> 02:00:14,199 digital so we have that that that that information 2573 02:00:14,199 --> 02:00:15,199 available to the public in 2574 02:00:15,199 --> 02:00:18,829 that way most of the time when a development happens they 2575 02:00:18,829 --> 02:00:20,520 come to us as a 2576 02:00:20,520 --> 02:00:25,750 pretty design meeting in the in the plan popular it's too 2577 02:00:25,750 --> 02:00:26,920 late use it by then 2578 02:00:26,920 --> 02:00:29,710 you've already done your phase one report and you're moving 2579 02:00:29,710 --> 02:00:30,380 on and that's 2580 02:00:30,380 --> 02:00:33,439 where I'm trying it needs to get into something that's an 2581 02:00:33,439 --> 02:00:34,640 indis in my opinion 2582 02:00:34,640 --> 02:00:37,210 it needs to be something that's in an industry standard 2583 02:00:37,210 --> 02:00:38,359 that everybody that's 2584 02:00:38,359 --> 02:00:42,239 in the business knows how to do it versus well if you're 2585 02:00:42,239 --> 02:00:43,319 doing it in the 2586 02:00:43,319 --> 02:00:47,199 city of Denton you have to go to our GSI map click on this 2587 02:00:47,199 --> 02:00:48,600 labor and click these 2588 02:00:48,600 --> 02:00:52,560 things to be able to find it versus what they typically are 2589 02:00:52,560 --> 02:00:53,560 going to which are 2590 02:00:53,560 --> 02:00:58,949 all of the federal state type things to pull all of these 2591 02:00:58,949 --> 02:01:01,520 reports that if you 2592 02:01:01,520 --> 02:01:05,520 use the federal and the state guidelines it shows up if you 2593 02:01:05,520 --> 02:01:06,600 use the city 2594 02:01:06,600 --> 02:01:09,060 guidelines and those city guidelines are different than the 2595 02:01:09,060 --> 02:01:09,920 state or the federal 2596 02:01:09,920 --> 02:01:13,659 guidelines it doesn't show up that's what my point was a 2597 02:01:13,659 --> 02:01:14,960 couple weeks ago and 2598 02:01:14,960 --> 02:01:18,880 it's still today is how do people find out what our 2599 02:01:18,880 --> 02:01:20,960 definitions of these things 2600 02:01:20,960 --> 02:01:27,479 are in the trade areas that they go to find this 2601 02:01:27,479 --> 02:01:29,420 information versus if you 2602 02:01:29,420 --> 02:01:33,880 don't do business in the city of Denton you don't know um 2603 02:01:33,880 --> 02:01:35,840 when they're doing a 2604 02:01:35,840 --> 02:01:40,020 phase one they usually contact the city as a part of it and 2605 02:01:40,020 --> 02:01:41,520 that is an open 2606 02:01:41,520 --> 02:01:44,939 record request and that open record requests are actually 2607 02:01:44,939 --> 02:01:45,680 sent out through 2608 02:01:45,680 --> 02:01:50,630 multiple departments ours included so in those instances if 2609 02:01:50,630 --> 02:01:51,880 we have something we 2610 02:01:51,880 --> 02:01:56,720 will be able to have to be able to inform them but yeah we 2611 02:01:56,720 --> 02:01:57,880 most of the time we 2612 02:01:57,880 --> 02:02:00,949 get open record requests on a regular basis for that and 2613 02:02:00,949 --> 02:02:02,199 that's for the purpose 2614 02:02:02,199 --> 02:02:11,000 of conducting phase one assessments when I called the 2615 02:02:11,000 --> 02:02:12,119 company that does these I 2616 02:02:12,119 --> 02:02:15,489 asked them here's what we're doing how do you guys find 2617 02:02:15,489 --> 02:02:17,279 this out the comment 2618 02:02:17,279 --> 02:02:22,779 that came back is that as part of a phase one typically 2619 02:02:22,779 --> 02:02:23,840 these things are not 2620 02:02:23,840 --> 02:02:28,649 under the ASTM requirements they get done as a courtesy to 2621 02:02:28,649 --> 02:02:29,199 go to a 2622 02:02:29,199 --> 02:02:33,289 municipality go on the GIS website do an open records 2623 02:02:33,289 --> 02:02:35,239 request it's not in the 2624 02:02:35,239 --> 02:02:39,760 database at the state or the federal level that those 2625 02:02:39,760 --> 02:02:41,319 things are incorporated 2626 02:02:41,319 --> 02:02:46,050 I don't have as much of an issue with it if it's kind of 2627 02:02:46,050 --> 02:02:48,000 the same thing I keep 2628 02:02:48,000 --> 02:02:51,630 coming back if it's transparent everybody knows it's buyer- 2629 02:02:51,630 --> 02:02:53,239 aware but if 2630 02:02:53,239 --> 02:02:57,250 you don't until you've already purchased a property and 2631 02:02:57,250 --> 02:02:57,840 come in for a 2632 02:02:57,840 --> 02:03:01,050 pre-development meeting or whatever and ask the question 2633 02:03:01,050 --> 02:03:02,880 you never know if you're 2634 02:03:02,880 --> 02:03:06,829 not doing pre-development if you're buying an existing 2635 02:03:06,829 --> 02:03:09,199 property it doesn't 2636 02:03:09,199 --> 02:03:11,569 come for pre-development it's just a arms-length 2637 02:03:11,569 --> 02:03:13,119 transaction trade property 2638 02:03:13,119 --> 02:03:17,640 to property and you have a whatever on it so that's where I 2639 02:03:17,640 --> 02:03:18,680 think there needs 2640 02:03:18,680 --> 02:03:22,039 to be some mechanism that's why I've asked about the map 2641 02:03:22,039 --> 02:03:23,119 where do you find 2642 02:03:23,119 --> 02:03:26,539 them at where is the map and everybody can know about the 2643 02:03:26,539 --> 02:03:27,279 map either it's 2644 02:03:27,279 --> 02:03:30,800 somehow tied in with the state or the federal maps that 2645 02:03:30,800 --> 02:03:32,680 these people go to to 2646 02:03:32,680 --> 02:03:37,770 produce the reports so I think that's a process whole that 2647 02:03:37,770 --> 02:03:40,439 we need to address in 2648 02:03:40,439 --> 02:03:44,189 this ordinance that it becomes very straightforward and 2649 02:03:44,189 --> 02:03:45,560 clear that that's 2650 02:03:45,560 --> 02:03:55,039 what you have so that was one item I had 2651 02:04:00,039 --> 02:04:02,920 Commissioner Oselle out of curiosity you know this process 2652 02:04:02,920 --> 02:04:03,600 is there a way to 2653 02:04:03,600 --> 02:04:07,750 submit maps to these regulatory bodies do you know what the 2654 02:04:07,750 --> 02:04:08,520 mechanism might be 2655 02:04:08,520 --> 02:04:12,640 to make these available I know the maps that are in these 2656 02:04:12,640 --> 02:04:13,640 and how they're the 2657 02:04:13,640 --> 02:04:15,869 guidelines and that's where they go to get the information 2658 02:04:15,869 --> 02:04:16,560 but I have no idea 2659 02:04:16,560 --> 02:04:31,319 how it is handled the next question I had was down in 37 17 2660 02:04:31,319 --> 02:04:36,920 .7 the three I made 2661 02:04:36,920 --> 02:04:40,720 some comments about the standards for Phil and just the 2662 02:04:40,720 --> 02:04:41,920 note I have is our 2663 02:04:41,920 --> 02:04:46,100 standards still says it if the lot has has got 50 cubic 2664 02:04:46,100 --> 02:04:47,880 yards or less so my 2665 02:04:47,880 --> 02:04:51,539 question again is if you have 50 yards of fill placed on 2666 02:04:51,539 --> 02:04:52,800 the lot outside of the 2667 02:04:52,800 --> 02:04:55,640 floodplain so if you have a lot that has floodplain on it 2668 02:04:55,640 --> 02:04:57,680 you build your gravel 2669 02:04:57,680 --> 02:04:59,909 road or your poor your driveway or build your house your 2670 02:04:59,909 --> 02:05:01,439 barn or whatever you've 2671 02:05:01,439 --> 02:05:07,720 exceeded your 50 yards of fill allowed on a lot or 300 per 2672 02:05:07,720 --> 02:05:08,880 acre whatever that's 2673 02:05:08,880 --> 02:05:12,510 greater you then are not allowed to go in and do any 2674 02:05:12,510 --> 02:05:14,119 improvements at the end of 2675 02:05:14,119 --> 02:05:16,680 the job cleaning up and doing your final grades and all the 2676 02:05:16,680 --> 02:05:17,720 things that you do at 2677 02:05:17,720 --> 02:05:22,670 the end of the project in in those areas if that fill is 2678 02:05:22,670 --> 02:05:24,239 outside the undeveloped 2679 02:05:24,239 --> 02:05:28,880 floodplain boundaries that does not count this is within 2680 02:05:28,880 --> 02:05:29,600 the floodplain 2681 02:05:29,600 --> 02:05:31,920 itself 2682 02:05:33,520 --> 02:05:37,439 well I'm not trying to quibble with it but it says it's 2683 02:05:37,439 --> 02:05:39,199 prohibited unless the 2684 02:05:39,199 --> 02:05:42,399 fill on any lot it doesn't that's what my point last time 2685 02:05:42,399 --> 02:05:44,159 is if it says it's in 2686 02:05:44,159 --> 02:05:47,260 the floodplain then it's straightforward it says unless the 2687 02:05:47,260 --> 02:05:50,520 fill on any lot it's 2688 02:05:50,520 --> 02:05:53,270 not saying whether it's in or out it just says if it's on 2689 02:05:53,270 --> 02:05:55,840 it so if you put 2690 02:05:55,840 --> 02:06:00,270 over 50 yards of fill on the lot you can't then go in and 2691 02:06:00,270 --> 02:06:01,640 do any work inside 2692 02:06:01,640 --> 02:06:05,880 your you can't do 50 cubic yards or 300 cubic feet 2693 02:06:05,880 --> 02:06:07,479 depending on the area in the 2694 02:06:07,479 --> 02:06:10,479 floodplain because you've already exceeded the amount 2695 02:06:10,479 --> 02:06:11,439 specified in the 2696 02:06:11,439 --> 02:06:17,989 ordinance before a says the following are standards to fill 2697 02:06:17,989 --> 02:06:19,039 in the undeveloped 2698 02:06:19,039 --> 02:06:24,670 floodplain so do you want us to incorporate that into item 2699 02:06:24,670 --> 02:06:25,960 number a as 2700 02:06:25,960 --> 02:06:30,489 well to make it clear that is if the if the field does not 2701 02:06:30,489 --> 02:06:31,479 happen within the 2702 02:06:31,479 --> 02:06:36,300 boundaries of the floodplain does not count towards your 2703 02:06:36,300 --> 02:06:39,760 limit yeah maybe just 2704 02:06:39,760 --> 02:06:45,840 kind of the the rules of reading statutes or codes is that 2705 02:06:45,840 --> 02:06:46,920 that first 2706 02:06:46,920 --> 02:06:52,149 sentence would explain the scope of the following ABCD so 2707 02:06:52,149 --> 02:06:54,920 this would apply for a 2708 02:06:54,920 --> 02:06:57,640 fill in undeveloped floodplains it's defined there I guess 2709 02:06:57,640 --> 02:06:58,359 what they were 2710 02:06:58,359 --> 02:07:03,420 saying is if you want to repeat that in some sections a it 2711 02:07:03,420 --> 02:07:04,439 's clear just want to 2712 02:07:04,439 --> 02:07:06,979 make sure it's clear so I'm fine with it if it's by the way 2713 02:07:06,979 --> 02:07:07,760 ordinance they're 2714 02:07:07,760 --> 02:07:17,079 drawn I'm good the last one I had was a question was on 3g 2715 02:07:17,079 --> 02:07:19,680 it says shall be 2716 02:07:19,680 --> 02:07:26,359 located as far as possible versus just outside of ESA okay 2717 02:07:26,359 --> 02:07:27,399 it's the question or 2718 02:07:27,399 --> 02:07:34,170 comment I had on item 51 on the comment list we what we 2719 02:07:34,170 --> 02:07:35,520 have proposed is just to 2720 02:07:35,520 --> 02:07:40,159 clean up that even further and then we substitute that 2721 02:07:40,159 --> 02:07:44,039 language to say item C 2722 02:07:44,039 --> 02:07:55,149 that the the G it is now item C because we simplify that 2723 02:07:55,149 --> 02:07:58,399 and it says field to 2724 02:07:58,399 --> 02:08:02,079 raise elevation for building sites shall not result in 2725 02:08:02,079 --> 02:08:03,840 point flows high runoff 2726 02:08:03,840 --> 02:08:06,420 velocities and or significant changes in the drainage 2727 02:08:06,420 --> 02:08:07,520 pattern that may cause 2728 02:08:07,520 --> 02:08:10,880 erosion and loss of vegetation in environmental sensitive 2729 02:08:10,880 --> 02:08:11,520 area located 2730 02:08:11,520 --> 02:08:14,880 downstream of the field so what we have done based on 2731 02:08:14,880 --> 02:08:16,359 public comment we have 2732 02:08:16,359 --> 02:08:20,239 revised that section we simplify it and made it more 2733 02:08:20,239 --> 02:08:21,720 shorter and also be a 2734 02:08:21,720 --> 02:08:28,279 specific the item the original item G it was very broad 2735 02:08:28,279 --> 02:08:30,119 stated so what we're 2736 02:08:30,119 --> 02:08:34,550 trying to do is just to make sure that when you are if you 2737 02:08:34,550 --> 02:08:36,319 are so that they say 2738 02:08:36,319 --> 02:08:41,090 that's you know you are fine but just take in consideration 2739 02:08:41,090 --> 02:08:42,039 how your drainage 2740 02:08:42,039 --> 02:08:47,289 patterns are and so else in that way you are not 2741 02:08:47,289 --> 02:08:49,560 concentrating flows and things 2742 02:08:49,560 --> 02:08:55,430 like that so in high velocities they're established by the 2743 02:08:55,430 --> 02:08:56,199 drainage criteria 2744 02:08:56,199 --> 02:08:59,439 manual six cubic feet per second so we already have some 2745 02:08:59,439 --> 02:09:01,159 parameters define what 2746 02:09:01,159 --> 02:09:05,039 high velocities are and so forth so item G have been 2747 02:09:05,039 --> 02:09:07,479 further revised and I 2748 02:09:07,479 --> 02:09:11,430 believe is reflected in response for comment 51 in the 2749 02:09:11,430 --> 02:09:13,159 ordinance that we have 2750 02:09:13,159 --> 02:09:18,000 this has been revised or the no no no if the Commission 2751 02:09:18,000 --> 02:09:19,800 approves the revisions 2752 02:09:19,800 --> 02:09:26,170 that we made on on comment 51 then then tired added in here 2753 02:09:26,170 --> 02:09:27,640 correct okay one 2754 02:09:27,640 --> 02:09:30,430 between the ordinance and I didn't understand the process 2755 02:09:30,430 --> 02:09:31,159 that we go to 2756 02:09:31,159 --> 02:09:35,449 each of these to change the ordinance yeah so we made 20 2757 02:09:35,449 --> 02:09:37,560 changes per the 2758 02:09:37,560 --> 02:09:42,529 public input to make it more clear and then the last one I 2759 02:09:42,529 --> 02:09:46,039 have is on 17.11 a 2760 02:09:46,039 --> 02:09:51,029 it's back to what I was concerned about other earlier is 2761 02:09:51,029 --> 02:09:52,640 the amendment procedure 2762 02:09:52,640 --> 02:09:58,369 outlined is a flexible discretionary process and then that 2763 02:09:58,369 --> 02:09:59,800 's where I keep 2764 02:09:59,800 --> 02:10:02,760 coming back and would like to see somehow and make me may 2765 02:10:02,760 --> 02:10:04,520 not get there to 2766 02:10:04,520 --> 02:10:08,260 define what it is and take so much of it from being 2767 02:10:08,260 --> 02:10:10,520 discretionary to here are the 2768 02:10:10,520 --> 02:10:13,409 guidelines that you have to me and those were all the 2769 02:10:13,409 --> 02:10:16,319 comments that I had on the 2770 02:10:16,319 --> 02:10:20,409 ordinance I don't know if anybody else has any we're 2771 02:10:20,409 --> 02:10:22,119 getting short on time 2772 02:10:23,520 --> 02:10:28,470 I had a couple of Commissioner Ellis thank you chair with 2773 02:10:28,470 --> 02:10:29,880 regard to an 2774 02:10:29,880 --> 02:10:34,699 alternative ESA I know we haven't had any requests come 2775 02:10:34,699 --> 02:10:36,680 before us in my almost 2776 02:10:36,680 --> 02:10:40,710 two years sitting here so how many have you had in the last 2777 02:10:40,710 --> 02:10:42,159 five years curious 2778 02:10:42,159 --> 02:10:47,449 five years I would say problem alternative ESA plans 2779 02:10:47,449 --> 02:10:49,319 probably we have a 2780 02:10:49,319 --> 02:10:55,399 total ten multiple years so there have been some that have 2781 02:10:55,399 --> 02:10:57,359 been started but not 2782 02:10:57,359 --> 02:11:01,449 finished Buckeyes is one of them that started the process 2783 02:11:01,449 --> 02:11:02,399 but didn't finish it 2784 02:11:02,399 --> 02:11:12,170 so but yeah approved in the books I will say 10 I had a 2785 02:11:12,170 --> 02:11:14,380 couple other questions do 2786 02:11:14,380 --> 02:11:20,489 we have I know you gave some percentages do we have a 2787 02:11:20,489 --> 02:11:22,560 number like of the number 2788 02:11:22,560 --> 02:11:27,289 of acres parcels larger than 10 acres of upland habitat do 2789 02:11:27,289 --> 02:11:30,319 we have 200 acres 2000 2790 02:11:30,319 --> 02:11:36,840 acres designations of those would have a quantity so we 2791 02:11:36,840 --> 02:11:38,520 have a we're dealing with 2792 02:11:38,520 --> 02:11:45,310 a X number the of upland habitat 10 acres or larger how 2793 02:11:45,310 --> 02:11:46,159 many of those do we 2794 02:11:46,159 --> 02:11:51,880 have what's the total number acreage wise that we have 2795 02:11:51,880 --> 02:11:57,680 total upland we have 2796 02:11:57,680 --> 02:12:03,600 approximately 1800 acres 1800 1800 okay that's pretty 2797 02:12:03,600 --> 02:12:06,520 significant amount 2798 02:12:06,520 --> 02:12:11,470 good upland habitat only applies within the city limits so 2799 02:12:11,470 --> 02:12:12,479 that's strictly 2800 02:12:12,479 --> 02:12:16,800 within city limits okay and that's upland right okay 2801 02:12:16,800 --> 02:12:20,430 Commissioner Ellis thank you chair this question for 2802 02:12:20,430 --> 02:12:24,359 illegal Victor if we can get 2803 02:12:24,359 --> 02:12:33,340 to consensus here a motion if we agree to the rewrite can 2804 02:12:33,340 --> 02:12:36,000 we say as per staff 2805 02:12:36,000 --> 02:12:38,539 notes on this document because I think it would be very 2806 02:12:38,539 --> 02:12:39,520 difficult subject to 2807 02:12:39,520 --> 02:12:43,949 correct subject to the notes as presented as presented in 2808 02:12:43,949 --> 02:12:44,720 the responses 2809 02:12:44,720 --> 02:12:50,840 okay excellent and just the the 1800 number that I gave you 2810 02:12:50,840 --> 02:12:51,680 none of those 2811 02:12:51,680 --> 02:12:54,890 sides have been field assessed okay this is just what the 2812 02:12:54,890 --> 02:12:56,859 map is showing like you 2813 02:12:56,859 --> 02:12:59,970 mentioned before sometimes we go to the side and the ESA 2814 02:12:59,970 --> 02:13:00,960 doesn't meet the 2815 02:13:00,960 --> 02:13:06,529 criteria species composition and so on so just this is just 2816 02:13:06,529 --> 02:13:07,479 a preliminary number 2817 02:13:07,479 --> 02:13:11,680 of what the map is showing at this point yeah thanks for 2818 02:13:11,680 --> 02:13:12,920 the clarification and 2819 02:13:12,920 --> 02:13:15,380 and that's some of my concern and it kind of goes to 2820 02:13:15,380 --> 02:13:16,560 Commissioner Ellis's 2821 02:13:16,560 --> 02:13:19,640 point is when it shows up on a mat there may be people that 2822 02:13:19,640 --> 02:13:20,600 choose to go through 2823 02:13:20,600 --> 02:13:23,960 the process and there may be people that look and go it has 2824 02:13:23,960 --> 02:13:26,039 the essay on it that's 2825 02:13:26,039 --> 02:13:31,289 with it it is passed so the designation itself if you know 2826 02:13:31,289 --> 02:13:31,920 to go look for it 2827 02:13:31,920 --> 02:13:38,819 where to go find it is a concern because you know you have 2828 02:13:38,819 --> 02:13:39,640 an issue to deal with 2829 02:13:39,640 --> 02:13:42,350 and how you're going to deal with it and what is it what's 2830 02:13:42,350 --> 02:13:43,800 involved with it so I 2831 02:13:43,800 --> 02:13:49,869 know we've run late we have a lot of do you have a comment 2832 02:13:49,869 --> 02:13:50,560 we have a lot of 2833 02:13:50,560 --> 02:13:53,520 people this evening in here and I'm sure we'll have some 2834 02:13:53,520 --> 02:13:54,600 more in there so it 2835 02:13:54,600 --> 02:14:00,670 does anybody else have a comment before we close 628 we'll 2836 02:14:00,670 --> 02:14:01,720 close work session 2837 02:14:01,720 --> 02:14:06,439 and reconvene as quickly as we can in council chambers 2838 02:14:16,039 --> 02:14:18,260 good evening and welcome to the city of Denton planning and 2839 02:14:18,260 --> 02:14:20,079 zoning Commission 2840 02:14:20,079 --> 02:14:25,029 meeting for February 21st 2018 this meeting has duly and 2841 02:14:25,029 --> 02:14:26,199 been duly posted 2842 02:14:26,199 --> 02:14:30,189 and we do have a quorum present and I will call us to order 2843 02:14:30,189 --> 02:14:31,279 at 640 2844 02:14:31,279 --> 02:14:34,069 apologize we're running a little late with work session our 2845 02:14:34,069 --> 02:14:35,359 first order of 2846 02:14:35,359 --> 02:14:39,449 business will be to stand and give the pledge to the US and 2847 02:14:39,449 --> 02:14:40,319 Texas flag 2848 02:14:50,079 --> 02:14:54,569 and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under 2849 02:14:54,569 --> 02:14:58,399 God indivisible with liberty and justice for all 2850 02:15:00,880 --> 02:15:08,149 I pledge allegiance to the Texas one state under God one 2851 02:15:08,149 --> 02:15:09,600 and indivisible 2852 02:15:20,079 --> 02:15:30,159 the next order of business on our agenda this evening will 2853 02:15:30,159 --> 02:15:31,039 be to consider the 2854 02:15:31,039 --> 02:15:35,859 planning and zoning Commission meeting minute meeting 2855 02:15:35,859 --> 02:15:37,600 minutes for February the 2856 02:15:37,600 --> 02:15:44,199 7th 2018 Commissioner Beck I move we approve the minutes 2857 02:15:44,199 --> 02:15:45,000 okay 2858 02:15:45,000 --> 02:15:48,020 Commissioner Ellis thank you chair I will second okay we 2859 02:15:48,020 --> 02:15:49,239 have a first and a 2860 02:15:49,239 --> 02:15:55,350 second for approval as is any discussion seeing none we'll 2861 02:15:55,350 --> 02:15:56,520 call for a vote on the 2862 02:15:56,520 --> 02:15:58,720 board 2863 02:16:08,399 --> 02:16:15,170 motion is going to carry five to zero with one recuse that 2864 02:16:15,170 --> 02:16:20,500 will take us to our consent agenda and chair would 2865 02:16:20,500 --> 02:16:23,920 entertain a motion on the consent agenda 2866 02:16:24,399 --> 02:16:28,279 Commissioner Smith thank you chair motion approved okay 2867 02:16:28,279 --> 02:16:29,119 Commissioner Rossell 2868 02:16:29,119 --> 02:16:32,909 second okay we have a first and a second for approval any 2869 02:16:32,909 --> 02:16:35,840 further discussion 2870 02:16:36,040 --> 02:16:40,360 seeing none we'll call for a vote on the board 2871 02:16:54,399 --> 02:16:58,680 motions going to carry six to zero 2872 02:17:02,319 --> 02:17:06,750 our items for individual consideration if you missed our 2873 02:17:06,750 --> 02:17:07,399 announcement and work 2874 02:17:07,399 --> 02:17:11,850 session those have been moved to March the 7th and we will 2875 02:17:11,850 --> 02:17:13,120 hear both of the 2876 02:17:13,120 --> 02:17:18,959 drainage and transportation criteria updates at that time 2877 02:17:18,959 --> 02:17:19,920 with that we will 2878 02:17:19,920 --> 02:17:24,989 move on to our public hearings for this evening at this 2879 02:17:24,989 --> 02:17:27,639 time I'm going to open 2880 02:17:27,639 --> 02:17:33,090 the public hearing for Z 17 - 0 0 2 5 C and I will call on 2881 02:17:33,090 --> 02:17:34,280 Ron to give this 2882 02:17:34,280 --> 02:17:36,840 presentation 2883 02:17:41,280 --> 02:17:45,360 thank you chair members of the Commission this item is for 2884 02:17:45,360 --> 02:17:45,920 a rezoning 2885 02:17:45,920 --> 02:17:49,090 change from an NR to neighborhood residential to zoning 2886 02:17:49,090 --> 02:17:50,559 district to an RCC 2887 02:17:50,559 --> 02:17:54,569 D regional center commercial downtown for approximately 88 2888 02:17:54,569 --> 02:17:55,719 point seven acres 2889 02:17:55,719 --> 02:17:59,600 generally located just south of US 3a University Drive and 2890 02:17:59,600 --> 02:18:01,040 possibly 1,500 feet 2891 02:18:01,040 --> 02:18:07,959 west of I 35 this is the former Selwyn school site that was 2892 02:18:07,959 --> 02:18:08,559 purchased by the 2893 02:18:08,559 --> 02:18:13,879 current property owner shown on the future land use map the 2894 02:18:13,879 --> 02:18:15,840 subject site has 2895 02:18:15,840 --> 02:18:19,350 two designations business innovation which is intended to 2896 02:18:19,350 --> 02:18:20,239 be large track 2897 02:18:20,239 --> 02:18:24,969 large development for office or employment type parks with 2898 02:18:24,969 --> 02:18:25,959 supporting 2899 02:18:25,959 --> 02:18:29,379 uses such as retail hotels and residential primary uses 2900 02:18:29,379 --> 02:18:30,360 include office 2901 02:18:30,360 --> 02:18:34,590 research development and light manufacturing it also has 2902 02:18:34,590 --> 02:18:35,760 industrial 2903 02:18:35,760 --> 02:18:38,920 commerce shown on the southern portion of the subject site 2904 02:18:38,920 --> 02:18:39,719 intended for 2905 02:18:39,719 --> 02:18:43,139 predominantly light and heavy industrial uses with 2906 02:18:43,139 --> 02:18:44,360 wholesale and distribution 2907 02:18:44,360 --> 02:18:50,200 distribution use as well this illustration or this slide 2908 02:18:50,200 --> 02:18:51,479 shows that 2909 02:18:51,479 --> 02:18:56,629 the existing zoning is NR - primarily residential again two 2910 02:18:56,629 --> 02:18:58,079 units per acre and 2911 02:18:58,079 --> 02:19:03,549 the proposed is our CCD which allows for a number of 2912 02:19:03,549 --> 02:19:06,319 different uses for 2913 02:19:06,319 --> 02:19:12,510 compatibility the area to the northwest contains single 2914 02:19:12,510 --> 02:19:13,959 family and is zone NR 2915 02:19:13,959 --> 02:19:19,239 - to the northeast is our CCD that currently has commercial 2916 02:19:19,239 --> 02:19:20,239 and industrial 2917 02:19:20,239 --> 02:19:25,049 just east of the railroad tracks to the east and south of 2918 02:19:25,049 --> 02:19:26,840 the subject site is 2919 02:19:26,840 --> 02:19:31,270 zone ICE that's shown here as currently undeveloped while 2920 02:19:31,270 --> 02:19:32,879 to the west it's zone 2921 02:19:32,879 --> 02:19:38,129 ICG that contains professional offices West Gate business 2922 02:19:38,129 --> 02:19:39,280 park and gas well 2923 02:19:39,280 --> 02:19:42,889 production the one gas well is shown in this general area 2924 02:19:42,889 --> 02:19:44,319 it's also important to 2925 02:19:44,319 --> 02:19:47,879 note that the subject site also contains a gas well which 2926 02:19:47,879 --> 02:19:49,000 is located in this 2927 02:19:49,000 --> 02:19:55,440 general area staff had now analyzed the subject request and 2928 02:19:55,440 --> 02:19:56,760 properties platted 2929 02:19:56,760 --> 02:19:59,270 as one which would create an opportunity for large-scale 2930 02:19:59,270 --> 02:19:59,920 development 2931 02:19:59,920 --> 02:20:04,889 again NR - is not consistent with the future land use as it 2932 02:20:04,889 --> 02:20:06,520 would only permit 2933 02:20:06,520 --> 02:20:10,040 single-family residential dwelling units while our CCD is a 2934 02:20:10,040 --> 02:20:10,959 little bit more 2935 02:20:10,959 --> 02:20:14,840 consistent in that it promotes mixed-use development which 2936 02:20:14,840 --> 02:20:15,959 is what the future 2937 02:20:15,959 --> 02:20:20,600 land use calls out for and again important to note that any 2938 02:20:20,600 --> 02:20:21,239 future 2939 02:20:21,239 --> 02:20:25,250 development that comes to the site will have to comply with 2940 02:20:25,250 --> 02:20:26,280 buffering and 2941 02:20:26,280 --> 02:20:31,569 screening requirements as earlier mentioned the RC CD 2942 02:20:31,569 --> 02:20:33,000 allows for a number 2943 02:20:33,000 --> 02:20:36,520 of different uses those include offices administrative and 2944 02:20:36,520 --> 02:20:37,719 research facilities 2945 02:20:37,719 --> 02:20:41,139 light manufacturing with the limitation some retail wareh 2946 02:20:41,139 --> 02:20:42,360 ousing as well with a 2947 02:20:42,360 --> 02:20:46,680 limitation a school and multifamily with a specific use 2948 02:20:46,680 --> 02:20:48,520 permit or part of a mix 2949 02:20:48,520 --> 02:20:55,350 use development mobility of the area primarily is primary 2950 02:20:55,350 --> 02:20:57,040 arterial with 2951 02:20:57,040 --> 02:21:02,700 University to the north it is a improved widened roadway 2952 02:21:02,700 --> 02:21:04,479 which has six lanes 2953 02:21:04,479 --> 02:21:10,649 approximately 135 feet of right away the subject proposal 2954 02:21:10,649 --> 02:21:12,200 for regional center 2955 02:21:12,200 --> 02:21:15,579 commercial of the downtown would accommodate I would be 2956 02:21:15,579 --> 02:21:16,559 accommodated by 2957 02:21:16,559 --> 02:21:22,239 the capacity that the that University Drive currently has 2958 02:21:22,239 --> 02:21:23,459 there was 2959 02:21:23,459 --> 02:21:26,450 notification sent out started out in November and as 2960 02:21:26,450 --> 02:21:27,639 mentioned the work 2961 02:21:27,639 --> 02:21:30,760 session this item has been postponed several times the 2962 02:21:30,760 --> 02:21:32,239 reason for that is the 2963 02:21:32,239 --> 02:21:35,340 applicant requested it'd be postponed to have the 2964 02:21:35,340 --> 02:21:36,799 opportunity to talk to the 2965 02:21:36,799 --> 02:21:40,010 razor company that owns a majority of the property adjacent 2966 02:21:40,010 --> 02:21:40,840 to the subject 2967 02:21:40,840 --> 02:21:47,409 site night notices were sent out to public to property 2968 02:21:47,409 --> 02:21:48,159 owners that is 2969 02:21:48,159 --> 02:21:51,540 within 200 feet and then 12 to property owners are 2970 02:21:51,540 --> 02:21:53,399 residents within 500 feet 2971 02:21:53,399 --> 02:21:58,479 we did receive a response to the turner foot legal notice 2972 02:21:58,479 --> 02:22:00,159 this was from the razor 2973 02:22:00,159 --> 02:22:04,270 company and their property representation is shown here in 2974 02:22:04,270 --> 02:22:05,879 red in 2975 02:22:05,879 --> 02:22:11,159 calculation it was calculated and it represents 61% of the 2976 02:22:11,159 --> 02:22:12,920 property within 2977 02:22:12,920 --> 02:22:19,040 200 feet which means that the City Council will have to 2978 02:22:19,040 --> 02:22:20,399 have a super 2979 02:22:20,399 --> 02:22:25,670 majority in order to approve this in favor of this rezoning 2980 02:22:25,670 --> 02:22:27,520 request staff 2981 02:22:27,520 --> 02:22:30,600 recommends approval of this rezoning change zoning change 2982 02:22:30,600 --> 02:22:31,440 request that is as 2983 02:22:31,440 --> 02:22:34,389 it conforms with the criteria outlined in the DDC then 2984 02:22:34,389 --> 02:22:35,940 development code and is 2985 02:22:35,940 --> 02:22:38,840 consistent with the goals and objectives of the 10 plan 2986 02:22:38,840 --> 02:22:40,639 2030 that concludes my 2987 02:22:40,639 --> 02:22:44,020 presentation I will be happy to answer any questions the 2988 02:22:44,020 --> 02:22:44,920 application is also 2989 02:22:44,920 --> 02:22:49,110 here if you have questions for her I have a question for 2990 02:22:49,110 --> 02:22:50,600 you Ron yes sir just 2991 02:22:50,600 --> 02:22:54,299 for not only P&Z but for those here and those who may be 2992 02:22:54,299 --> 02:22:56,040 watching will you talk 2993 02:22:56,040 --> 02:23:01,360 about what the approval standards will be since this is 2994 02:23:01,360 --> 02:23:02,079 gonna have a super 2995 02:23:02,079 --> 02:23:05,840 majority because of the 60% opposition whether for this 2996 02:23:05,840 --> 02:23:07,040 board and if it moves 2997 02:23:07,040 --> 02:23:11,680 on to City Council sure what we're seeking from P&Z 2998 02:23:11,680 --> 02:23:12,120 planning zone 2999 02:23:12,120 --> 02:23:16,319 Commission as a recommendation if it were that you 3000 02:23:16,319 --> 02:23:18,920 recommend approval the 3001 02:23:18,920 --> 02:23:22,920 City Council will still have to have a super majority the 3002 02:23:22,920 --> 02:23:24,840 opposition of 61% 3003 02:23:24,840 --> 02:23:29,799 which is more than 20% triggers that super majority at City 3004 02:23:29,799 --> 02:23:30,600 Council great 3005 02:23:30,600 --> 02:23:34,780 thank you very much for the clarification any question any 3006 02:23:34,780 --> 02:23:35,239 other 3007 02:23:35,239 --> 02:23:43,450 questions for Ron okay thank you sir okay before I call on 3008 02:23:43,450 --> 02:23:44,239 the next person I 3009 02:23:44,239 --> 02:23:49,959 was remiss and drawing anybody who's here or watching 3010 02:23:49,959 --> 02:23:51,920 online to a couple of 3011 02:23:51,920 --> 02:23:55,799 changes in our public hearing section this evening we have 3012 02:23:55,799 --> 02:23:57,159 item C if you're 3013 02:23:57,159 --> 02:23:59,799 here for that that's been postponed indefinitely and then 3014 02:23:59,799 --> 02:24:01,040 we are going to be 3015 02:24:01,040 --> 02:24:07,319 seeking a continuance for item D which is Eric Schmidt 3016 02:24:07,319 --> 02:24:08,600 representing Marvin 3017 02:24:08,600 --> 02:24:11,809 Jeffries that's gonna go to March the 7th and then item E 3018 02:24:11,809 --> 02:24:12,719 is going to be 3019 02:24:12,719 --> 02:24:15,760 Owens Ranch is going to be requested to be continued to 3020 02:24:15,760 --> 02:24:17,659 March 21st so do want to 3021 02:24:17,659 --> 02:24:22,239 let anybody know who may have missed or didn't pick up a 3022 02:24:22,239 --> 02:24:23,719 copy of the agenda that 3023 02:24:23,719 --> 02:24:26,920 those items are for us this evening to be moved so do want 3024 02:24:26,920 --> 02:24:27,520 to let you know that 3025 02:24:27,520 --> 02:24:29,850 so you don't sit here through all of the meeting this 3026 02:24:29,850 --> 02:24:30,840 evening to find your 3027 02:24:30,840 --> 02:24:35,600 item not going to be heard with that announcement we'll 3028 02:24:35,600 --> 02:24:36,760 move on to our first 3029 02:24:36,760 --> 02:24:43,049 card on item 5a first person I have here is Randy Rivera at 3030 02:24:43,049 --> 02:24:46,079 111 Hillside Drive in 3031 02:24:46,079 --> 02:24:48,799 support 3032 02:25:01,719 --> 02:25:02,700 good evening chairman commissioners my name is Randy Rivera 3033 02:25:02,700 --> 02:25:07,000 Milan planner with 3034 02:25:07,000 --> 02:25:11,260 GNA consultants we're located at 111 Hillside Drive in 3035 02:25:11,260 --> 02:25:12,840 Louisville Texas and 3036 02:25:12,840 --> 02:25:16,129 I am here tonight on behalf of volunteer enterprises to 3037 02:25:16,129 --> 02:25:17,639 present our request for 3038 02:25:17,639 --> 02:25:17,639 the zoning change application for volunteer Hills the 3039 02:25:17,639 --> 02:25:24,120 subject property Ron 3040 02:25:24,120 --> 02:25:24,120 did a great presentation and we've enjoyed working with 3041 02:25:24,120 --> 02:25:29,559 staff and the zoning 3042 02:25:29,559 --> 02:25:33,209 request came about really at the beginning of probably the 3043 02:25:33,209 --> 02:25:34,239 late summer of 3044 02:25:34,239 --> 02:25:38,780 last year as a result of discussions with the ED the 3045 02:25:38,780 --> 02:25:39,479 economic development 3046 02:25:39,479 --> 02:25:46,000 department trying to you know encourage corporate style 3047 02:25:46,000 --> 02:25:47,040 corporate campus with a 3048 02:25:47,040 --> 02:25:51,030 mix two setting style development and they thought that 3049 02:25:51,030 --> 02:25:51,920 this location would be 3050 02:25:51,920 --> 02:25:55,559 appropriate and that was an encouragement to proceed 3051 02:25:55,559 --> 02:25:56,040 forward with a 3052 02:25:56,040 --> 02:25:58,739 zoning change tonight and we're excited to finally be here 3053 02:25:58,739 --> 02:25:59,680 in front of you after 3054 02:25:59,680 --> 02:26:02,479 another with some postponements and I appreciate that and I 3055 02:26:02,479 --> 02:26:03,760 hope I can clarify 3056 02:26:03,760 --> 02:26:06,940 any questions that you may have subject property is 1,500 3057 02:26:06,940 --> 02:26:08,479 feet away from the 35 3058 02:26:08,479 --> 02:26:12,260 and 380 intersection it's a general aerial I think we all 3059 02:26:12,260 --> 02:26:13,020 know where that is 3060 02:26:13,020 --> 02:26:16,729 located just some drone photos showing the property it's a 3061 02:26:16,729 --> 02:26:17,760 beautiful beautiful 3062 02:26:17,760 --> 02:26:21,360 property the school building that burned was located right 3063 02:26:21,360 --> 02:26:22,159 here and that happened 3064 02:26:22,159 --> 02:26:26,399 as you all know probably 2012 so this is looking to the 3065 02:26:26,399 --> 02:26:28,239 south southwest and you 3066 02:26:28,239 --> 02:26:30,590 can see the pond which is a great attribute a great 3067 02:26:30,590 --> 02:26:31,840 environmental feature 3068 02:26:31,840 --> 02:26:36,790 on the property that we would want to preserve and so this 3069 02:26:36,790 --> 02:26:37,879 is the the hill 3070 02:26:37,879 --> 02:26:40,520 which is the top part where the school campus used to be 3071 02:26:40,520 --> 02:26:43,559 this is looking to the 3072 02:26:43,559 --> 02:26:46,110 other one was southeast sorry this is the southwest and 3073 02:26:46,110 --> 02:26:47,159 again I wanted to get a 3074 02:26:47,159 --> 02:26:51,399 good view of the sense of the what this hilltop represent 3075 02:26:51,399 --> 02:26:52,760 it's it's kind of 3076 02:26:52,760 --> 02:26:55,049 remarkable when you're out there looking at the views off 3077 02:26:55,049 --> 02:26:56,040 in the distance to the 3078 02:26:56,040 --> 02:26:58,979 south and there's oh there's about 40 feet of fall from the 3079 02:26:58,979 --> 02:26:59,799 top of this hill 3080 02:26:59,799 --> 02:27:03,940 to the to that pond so that's just a great attribute you 3081 02:27:03,940 --> 02:27:05,120 know when we are 3082 02:27:05,120 --> 02:27:07,459 going to start working on a design for this it's something 3083 02:27:07,459 --> 02:27:08,319 that we're excited 3084 02:27:08,319 --> 02:27:12,159 to work around and to be able to incorporate in the layout 3085 02:27:12,159 --> 02:27:13,159 and of course 3086 02:27:13,159 --> 02:27:15,520 the airport and the industrial uses are off to the 3087 02:27:15,520 --> 02:27:17,079 southwest and then another 3088 02:27:17,079 --> 02:27:22,149 view looking east as a sunrise TWU 380 going under 35 just 3089 02:27:22,149 --> 02:27:23,040 kind of what it 3090 02:27:23,040 --> 02:27:25,569 entails the trees around the campus and the rest of its 3091 02:27:25,569 --> 02:27:26,680 virtually treeless in 3092 02:27:26,680 --> 02:27:29,930 the area that we're proposing to develop Ron did great job 3093 02:27:29,930 --> 02:27:31,239 talking about the 3094 02:27:31,239 --> 02:27:34,969 split land use designations on the property and again as we 3095 02:27:34,969 --> 02:27:35,799 're tying in 3096 02:27:35,799 --> 02:27:39,649 with the business innovation and industrial commerce our 3097 02:27:39,649 --> 02:27:40,479 zoning change is 3098 02:27:40,479 --> 02:27:43,690 compatible and compliant with the land use plan and as you 3099 02:27:43,690 --> 02:27:44,920 can see this yellow 3100 02:27:44,920 --> 02:27:48,329 was kind of isolated on the south side of 380 and buffered 3101 02:27:48,329 --> 02:27:49,520 by these industrial 3102 02:27:49,520 --> 02:27:55,100 uses and again that's for two acre I'm sorry for two lots 3103 02:27:55,100 --> 02:27:57,000 per acre right now 3104 02:27:57,000 --> 02:28:00,819 and again that's just not an appropriate use for for this 3105 02:28:00,819 --> 02:28:02,520 property and that's why 3106 02:28:02,520 --> 02:28:04,959 we're before you tonight also asking for that zoning change 3107 02:28:04,959 --> 02:28:06,040 I think a question 3108 02:28:06,040 --> 02:28:09,670 came up about this piece here during the work session if 3109 02:28:09,670 --> 02:28:10,799 that could also be 3110 02:28:10,799 --> 02:28:15,440 included and I'll touch on I'll touch on that in just a 3111 02:28:15,440 --> 02:28:16,520 minute in just a second 3112 02:28:16,520 --> 02:28:19,670 all right so an aerial just and I want to show you know 3113 02:28:19,670 --> 02:28:21,399 when we anytime before 3114 02:28:21,399 --> 02:28:24,079 we get started on design we go out there we look at the 3115 02:28:24,079 --> 02:28:25,399 property we look at all 3116 02:28:25,399 --> 02:28:28,350 the do all the research look at all the GIS data that's out 3117 02:28:28,350 --> 02:28:29,260 there and all the 3118 02:28:29,260 --> 02:28:32,149 maps and government requirements and things and this 3119 02:28:32,149 --> 02:28:34,200 property does have a 3120 02:28:34,200 --> 02:28:37,079 significant amount of floodplain that the lake itself is 3121 02:28:37,079 --> 02:28:39,079 about 10 acres but 3122 02:28:39,079 --> 02:28:42,170 when you look at just this area and the gas well site here 3123 02:28:42,170 --> 02:28:43,280 that encompasses about 3124 02:28:43,280 --> 02:28:46,879 35 acres of land that can't be developed and I think some 3125 02:28:46,879 --> 02:28:48,079 of this does fall into 3126 02:28:48,079 --> 02:28:51,879 the ESA maps that you'll have that need you know 3127 02:28:51,879 --> 02:28:53,319 environmental protection needs 3128 02:28:53,319 --> 02:28:55,739 to happen to preserve these habitats and that's it's 3129 02:28:55,739 --> 02:28:57,280 critical and so that's 3130 02:28:57,280 --> 02:29:02,280 something like you know yes it's it's almost like it's a 3131 02:29:02,280 --> 02:29:03,620 constraint on the 3132 02:29:03,620 --> 02:29:06,530 property but what we like to do is turn those constraints 3133 02:29:06,530 --> 02:29:07,559 into amenities or 3134 02:29:07,559 --> 02:29:10,690 opportunities to create something really cool and you know 3135 02:29:10,690 --> 02:29:12,760 people enjoy walking 3136 02:29:12,760 --> 02:29:14,989 and jogging around lakes and ponds and stuff like that so 3137 02:29:14,989 --> 02:29:15,719 we want to turn it 3138 02:29:15,719 --> 02:29:18,280 into an amenity and a very attractive feature for the 3139 02:29:18,280 --> 02:29:20,520 development it is 3140 02:29:20,520 --> 02:29:24,969 platted as lot one of the cell one school addition and so 3141 02:29:24,969 --> 02:29:26,959 the area in red is 3142 02:29:26,959 --> 02:29:30,899 all the encumbrances all the easements I did not include 3143 02:29:30,899 --> 02:29:32,200 the sewer easement we 3144 02:29:32,200 --> 02:29:35,709 talked about that in the work session because we're you 3145 02:29:35,709 --> 02:29:37,180 know we would maybe be 3146 02:29:37,180 --> 02:29:40,809 able to put parking over that but no no landscaping or no 3147 02:29:40,809 --> 02:29:42,639 structures so I felt 3148 02:29:42,639 --> 02:29:45,649 like that could still be considered developable but there's 3149 02:29:45,649 --> 02:29:46,559 a pipeline 3150 02:29:46,559 --> 02:29:50,170 easement along the west side and then this is a floodplain 3151 02:29:50,170 --> 02:29:51,879 easement here that 3152 02:29:51,879 --> 02:29:54,229 was established with this plat and then you have utility 3153 02:29:54,229 --> 02:29:55,559 easements up along 380 3154 02:29:55,559 --> 02:29:59,409 so there's some things that we need to work around okay so 3155 02:29:59,409 --> 02:30:00,959 you know when we go 3156 02:30:00,959 --> 02:30:03,059 out here and I talked about the hill being a great 3157 02:30:03,059 --> 02:30:04,559 attribute there's a total 3158 02:30:04,559 --> 02:30:08,190 of 54 feet a fall from this is the hill the top of the 3159 02:30:08,190 --> 02:30:09,840 ridge the highest point 3160 02:30:09,840 --> 02:30:12,409 of the ridge and the ridge extends down to here where the 3161 02:30:12,409 --> 02:30:13,559 school the campus was 3162 02:30:13,559 --> 02:30:17,659 but there's overall from this point down there's 54 feet I 3163 02:30:17,659 --> 02:30:18,360 think it's actually 3164 02:30:18,360 --> 02:30:23,799 down to this point and so you know when it's slated to be 3165 02:30:23,799 --> 02:30:26,120 industrial commerce on 3166 02:30:26,120 --> 02:30:29,930 the land use map we're looking at that and you know I know 3167 02:30:29,930 --> 02:30:31,200 it's zoned art in 3168 02:30:31,200 --> 02:30:34,040 our two and we're next to industrial uses and then the 3169 02:30:34,040 --> 02:30:35,200 municipal airports 3170 02:30:35,200 --> 02:30:38,719 just to our south and but but really when you're dealing 3171 02:30:38,719 --> 02:30:39,520 with a large 3172 02:30:39,520 --> 02:30:42,120 industrial distribution centers warehouses and things like 3173 02:30:42,120 --> 02:30:42,559 that they 3174 02:30:42,559 --> 02:30:45,909 need land that's that doesn't have this much terrain relief 3175 02:30:45,909 --> 02:30:47,000 on it so the sites 3176 02:30:47,000 --> 02:30:50,629 not very conducive for those type of big large box 3177 02:30:50,629 --> 02:30:52,360 warehouse developments 3178 02:30:52,360 --> 02:30:54,590 because of the terrain and we don't want to scrape the 3179 02:30:54,590 --> 02:30:55,600 whole hill and cut it all 3180 02:30:55,600 --> 02:30:59,059 down we want to be able to work with it and so we felt like 3181 02:30:59,059 --> 02:31:00,079 the site isn't 3182 02:31:00,079 --> 02:31:03,229 conducive for that but it would be it's a very attractive 3183 02:31:03,229 --> 02:31:04,360 site for an office 3184 02:31:04,360 --> 02:31:07,479 campus setting for retail restaurant opportunities and even 3185 02:31:07,479 --> 02:31:08,059 some urban 3186 02:31:08,059 --> 02:31:14,549 residential and so we've had some visionary processes with 3187 02:31:14,549 --> 02:31:16,600 our team and 3188 02:31:16,600 --> 02:31:21,040 volunteer hills you know we're going to try to capitalize 3189 02:31:21,040 --> 02:31:22,879 on corporate campuses 3190 02:31:22,879 --> 02:31:26,170 and I'll show you in a bubble plan kind of where we want to 3191 02:31:26,170 --> 02:31:27,280 locate those but a 3192 02:31:27,280 --> 02:31:30,290 live-work-play environment and these corporations that are 3193 02:31:30,290 --> 02:31:31,200 moving they want 3194 02:31:31,200 --> 02:31:35,760 to provide they want to be in cool places that their that 3195 02:31:35,760 --> 02:31:35,760 can that their 3196 02:31:35,760 --> 02:31:40,200 employees can also work in close proximity to where to 3197 02:31:40,200 --> 02:31:41,799 where to start to 3198 02:31:41,799 --> 02:31:45,409 live in close proximity to where they work and we've seen 3199 02:31:45,409 --> 02:31:46,639 that we're working on 3200 02:31:46,639 --> 02:31:49,190 some over in Flower Mound and we see that all across the 3201 02:31:49,190 --> 02:31:50,680 metroplex definitely 3202 02:31:50,680 --> 02:31:54,620 in Frisco and Irving and places like that grapevine you 3203 02:31:54,620 --> 02:31:55,879 know there are urban 3204 02:31:55,879 --> 02:32:00,319 residential developments going in next to campus style 3205 02:32:00,319 --> 02:32:01,879 corporate headquarters 3206 02:32:01,879 --> 02:32:04,629 and things like that because people want to they do want to 3207 02:32:04,629 --> 02:32:05,559 be able to live and 3208 02:32:05,559 --> 02:32:08,309 work in close proximity and then on their breaks go out and 3209 02:32:08,309 --> 02:32:08,840 enjoy the 3210 02:32:08,840 --> 02:32:12,930 amenities and maybe picnic down by the pond and you know I 3211 02:32:12,930 --> 02:32:14,200 know that a lot of 3212 02:32:14,200 --> 02:32:16,969 our workers today they're getting out of college and they 3213 02:32:16,969 --> 02:32:18,120 still want it they want 3214 02:32:18,120 --> 02:32:20,840 to be connected they want Wi-Fi everywhere they go and you 3215 02:32:20,840 --> 02:32:21,920 know and so 3216 02:32:21,920 --> 02:32:24,149 they but they want to be in nature they want to be outside 3217 02:32:24,149 --> 02:32:24,840 but they want to be 3218 02:32:24,840 --> 02:32:27,680 close to inside and in the air conditioning and still 3219 02:32:27,680 --> 02:32:28,920 connected on Wi-Fi 3220 02:32:28,920 --> 02:32:31,829 and so that's an important feature that we would 3221 02:32:31,829 --> 02:32:34,040 incorporate into the design is 3222 02:32:34,040 --> 02:32:37,500 establishing these corporate campuses around the pond area 3223 02:32:37,500 --> 02:32:38,600 with amenities and 3224 02:32:38,600 --> 02:32:43,030 pockets of gathering spaces for employees to go to for 3225 02:32:43,030 --> 02:32:44,120 breaks and things 3226 02:32:44,120 --> 02:32:46,739 like that quality of life elements are essential in the 3227 02:32:46,739 --> 02:32:48,159 success of mixed-use 3228 02:32:48,159 --> 02:32:52,989 developments and it's exactly what employers are looking 3229 02:32:52,989 --> 02:32:54,319 for to bring their 3230 02:32:54,319 --> 02:32:57,840 businesses to a certain location and the site and its 3231 02:32:57,840 --> 02:32:59,799 location is also it's it's 3232 02:32:59,799 --> 02:33:03,510 the Western gateway into the city and it's a critical piece 3233 02:33:03,510 --> 02:33:04,559 as we're coming 3234 02:33:04,559 --> 02:33:07,200 into from a rural developed from a rural area into the 3235 02:33:07,200 --> 02:33:08,319 developed area of the city 3236 02:33:08,319 --> 02:33:10,719 you know what is this gateway what is it gonna look like 3237 02:33:10,719 --> 02:33:11,280 how do we gonna 3238 02:33:11,280 --> 02:33:14,200 establish this to show that you know didn't it's not it's 3239 02:33:14,200 --> 02:33:15,040 not just big box 3240 02:33:15,040 --> 02:33:17,440 warehouse but hey there's you go in there and there's some 3241 02:33:17,440 --> 02:33:18,200 pretty cool things 3242 02:33:18,200 --> 02:33:22,520 to do and it's not just your typical run-of-the-mill 3243 02:33:22,520 --> 02:33:24,399 industrial and urban 3244 02:33:24,399 --> 02:33:27,319 residential is a key component I talked about that and 3245 02:33:27,319 --> 02:33:30,200 again it would be we'd 3246 02:33:30,200 --> 02:33:32,450 want to be sensitive let me go ahead and go to the bubble 3247 02:33:32,450 --> 02:33:34,079 plan too so here's our 3248 02:33:34,079 --> 02:33:37,709 early our earliest kind of design and kind of spatial 3249 02:33:37,709 --> 02:33:39,200 planning is what we were 3250 02:33:39,200 --> 02:33:42,969 at what we have done up to this point you know working with 3251 02:33:42,969 --> 02:33:43,840 our features on 3252 02:33:43,840 --> 02:33:47,860 the property the floodplain the pond and the gas pad and 3253 02:33:47,860 --> 02:33:49,479 then how you know how 3254 02:33:49,479 --> 02:33:54,090 can we save the hill and then we have this 1500 feet of 3255 02:33:54,090 --> 02:33:55,360 frontage along you 3256 02:33:55,360 --> 02:33:59,510 know a regional arterial that brings in you know regional 3257 02:33:59,510 --> 02:34:01,120 traffic into the city 3258 02:34:01,120 --> 02:34:04,469 of Denton from the West and so how you know where could 3259 02:34:04,469 --> 02:34:05,319 should these uses be 3260 02:34:05,319 --> 02:34:09,010 located and they all need to be integrated in a way that 3261 02:34:09,010 --> 02:34:09,399 there's a 3262 02:34:09,399 --> 02:34:12,420 connection and that's a the central spot the hills in the 3263 02:34:12,420 --> 02:34:13,520 perfect spot you know 3264 02:34:13,520 --> 02:34:15,920 as to be the central node where everything comes together 3265 02:34:15,920 --> 02:34:16,239 all the 3266 02:34:16,239 --> 02:34:19,930 different uses and so of course retail restaurant up along 3267 02:34:19,930 --> 02:34:21,200 380 to get to 3268 02:34:21,200 --> 02:34:25,340 capture visibility from the motorist and the patrons along 3269 02:34:25,340 --> 02:34:26,559 that roadway and to 3270 02:34:26,559 --> 02:34:29,530 draw them into the site and then of course the corporate 3271 02:34:29,530 --> 02:34:30,399 campus I have it 3272 02:34:30,399 --> 02:34:33,979 really either way urban residential corporate campus these 3273 02:34:33,979 --> 02:34:35,079 two can switch we 3274 02:34:35,079 --> 02:34:38,079 just this is just kind of our thought process at this time 3275 02:34:38,079 --> 02:34:38,760 and I wanted to 3276 02:34:38,760 --> 02:34:41,799 share that with you but what's important is to be sensitive 3277 02:34:41,799 --> 02:34:42,799 to the neighboring 3278 02:34:42,799 --> 02:34:46,719 uses and we know that this is land use for ICE or 3279 02:34:46,719 --> 02:34:49,079 industrial and so we would 3280 02:34:49,079 --> 02:34:52,069 propose a hundred foot setback if we if there are urban 3281 02:34:52,069 --> 02:34:53,559 residential components 3282 02:34:53,559 --> 02:34:57,290 along this western boundary and then there's a significant 3283 02:34:57,290 --> 02:34:58,559 buffer you know on 3284 02:34:58,559 --> 02:35:01,399 any of the industrial stuff to the south that's down here 3285 02:35:01,399 --> 02:35:02,879 that the razor family 3286 02:35:02,879 --> 02:35:07,370 has that owns the property and could potentially develop 3287 02:35:07,370 --> 02:35:08,879 into an industrial 3288 02:35:08,879 --> 02:35:14,020 project and so the gathering spot I you know that again 3289 02:35:14,020 --> 02:35:15,079 that's that's that's 3290 02:35:15,079 --> 02:35:18,760 critical to bring this together and integrate everything 3291 02:35:18,760 --> 02:35:19,799 but the industrial 3292 02:35:19,799 --> 02:35:22,590 would be I'm sorry the residential would be limited and we 3293 02:35:22,590 --> 02:35:24,360 would come back with 3294 02:35:24,360 --> 02:35:28,389 an SUP before you before anything moves forward on the 3295 02:35:28,389 --> 02:35:30,000 residential piece and we 3296 02:35:30,000 --> 02:35:32,760 would address the sensitivity the dense screening along the 3297 02:35:32,760 --> 02:35:33,760 west and south line 3298 02:35:33,760 --> 02:35:38,709 right here the setback and the black dotted line represents 3299 02:35:38,709 --> 02:35:40,000 the trail and the 3300 02:35:40,000 --> 02:35:42,950 connectivity you know in the amenity of that trail that 3301 02:35:42,950 --> 02:35:44,000 could be used by 3302 02:35:44,000 --> 02:35:49,229 employees and also residents and then even patrons from the 3303 02:35:49,229 --> 02:35:50,040 restaurant retail 3304 02:35:50,040 --> 02:35:53,670 area and so this is where we are right now it's a very 3305 02:35:53,670 --> 02:35:55,639 early stages of design I 3306 02:35:55,639 --> 02:35:58,040 know that we have a long way to go with all the city 3307 02:35:58,040 --> 02:35:59,559 processes as end users come 3308 02:35:59,559 --> 02:36:02,989 online and SUP for residential we'd have to do preliminary 3309 02:36:02,989 --> 02:36:04,360 platting site planning 3310 02:36:04,360 --> 02:36:07,239 final platting and all that and so I know there's a lot of 3311 02:36:07,239 --> 02:36:08,159 things to do and 3312 02:36:08,159 --> 02:36:12,770 so this morning to address the opposition that was 3313 02:36:12,770 --> 02:36:14,600 submitted from our 3314 02:36:14,600 --> 02:36:17,770 neighbor we did need a little bit more time to reach out to 3315 02:36:17,770 --> 02:36:18,879 him I know that 3316 02:36:18,879 --> 02:36:21,110 everybody's just kind of busy and there was some phone tag 3317 02:36:21,110 --> 02:36:22,360 ging going on but we 3318 02:36:22,360 --> 02:36:24,319 were finally able to get in contact with him my engineer 3319 02:36:24,319 --> 02:36:25,040 talked to him this 3320 02:36:25,040 --> 02:36:29,579 morning and he did express that his concern there was there 3321 02:36:29,579 --> 02:36:30,680 's really two 3322 02:36:30,680 --> 02:36:34,770 pieces to it and it's to protect his the land that he's 3323 02:36:34,770 --> 02:36:36,319 responsible for you know 3324 02:36:36,319 --> 02:36:40,399 along the the east the south and the west since it is zoned 3325 02:36:40,399 --> 02:36:41,600 for industrial 3326 02:36:41,600 --> 02:36:49,809 you know anytime okay I'll wrap up okay and so in order to 3327 02:36:49,809 --> 02:36:50,680 address that we do 3328 02:36:50,680 --> 02:36:53,680 want to be highly sensitive to if this was to develop as 3329 02:36:53,680 --> 02:36:55,000 industrial the burden 3330 02:36:55,000 --> 02:36:57,049 of the buffering and the screening would be on the 3331 02:36:57,049 --> 02:36:58,120 residential and we could 3332 02:36:58,120 --> 02:37:04,489 incorporate that into the SUP the second issue was the pond 3333 02:37:04,489 --> 02:37:06,440 itself the you know I 3334 02:37:06,440 --> 02:37:09,420 think the best word I guess I could say is making sure the 3335 02:37:09,420 --> 02:37:10,360 pond is working 3336 02:37:10,360 --> 02:37:12,399 correctly because I think it's causing some erosion 3337 02:37:12,399 --> 02:37:13,200 downstream onto his 3338 02:37:13,200 --> 02:37:16,829 property and so we'd have to do a full-blown drainage 3339 02:37:16,829 --> 02:37:17,959 analysis to establish 3340 02:37:17,959 --> 02:37:20,190 the 100-year floodplain I don't think this is a studied 3341 02:37:20,190 --> 02:37:20,920 floodplain so we'd 3342 02:37:20,920 --> 02:37:24,209 have to go through that with our hydrologist to make sure 3343 02:37:24,209 --> 02:37:25,159 that the pond is 3344 02:37:25,159 --> 02:37:28,149 we would want to use it as a detention facility as well so 3345 02:37:28,149 --> 02:37:29,200 we have to make sure 3346 02:37:29,200 --> 02:37:32,250 that that pond is working correctly and not creating any 3347 02:37:32,250 --> 02:37:33,760 anything downstream that 3348 02:37:33,760 --> 02:37:37,959 could damage the the properties to the south of us and so 3349 02:37:37,959 --> 02:37:39,079 we would go through 3350 02:37:39,079 --> 02:37:42,709 that that process to make sure that the pond is is working 3351 02:37:42,709 --> 02:37:43,680 like the way it's 3352 02:37:43,680 --> 02:37:47,360 supposed to so he doesn't incur any damage but that's I 3353 02:37:47,360 --> 02:37:48,719 believe that is the 3354 02:37:48,719 --> 02:37:51,540 conclusion so I'm here for any questions if you have a 3355 02:37:51,540 --> 02:37:52,399 couple questions for you 3356 02:37:52,399 --> 02:37:56,920 sir Commissioner Smith thank you sure Rami your last name 3357 02:37:56,920 --> 02:37:58,200 again Rivera Rivera 3358 02:37:58,200 --> 02:38:03,559 it's rare the corporate campus and residential split what 3359 02:38:03,559 --> 02:38:04,639 size of acreages 3360 02:38:04,639 --> 02:38:06,610 were those I know that's all conceptual and hypothetical 3361 02:38:06,610 --> 02:38:07,440 and nothing solid but 3362 02:38:07,440 --> 02:38:10,489 could you get estimate for me yes I can I mean if this 3363 02:38:10,489 --> 02:38:12,239 green area is about 35 3364 02:38:12,239 --> 02:38:16,670 acres I think I could say that again these could be swapped 3365 02:38:16,670 --> 02:38:17,479 right so we're not 3366 02:38:17,479 --> 02:38:20,000 getting the next question I was gonna ask because that was 3367 02:38:20,000 --> 02:38:20,959 a possibility to be 3368 02:38:20,959 --> 02:38:24,719 swiped yes it is yes but this area I believe this would 3369 02:38:24,719 --> 02:38:25,840 probably about 25 3370 02:38:25,840 --> 02:38:31,280 acres or 20 to 25 and this would be you know maybe 18 or so 3371 02:38:31,280 --> 02:38:32,239 so you feel like in 3372 02:38:32,239 --> 02:38:34,629 your professional recommendation that's enough room to do 3373 02:38:34,629 --> 02:38:35,559 both of those types of 3374 02:38:35,559 --> 02:38:38,379 developments oh yes it's really impactful and make it make 3375 02:38:38,379 --> 02:38:39,079 it worth yes 3376 02:38:39,079 --> 02:38:42,959 your your time financially is as well as a increase in 3377 02:38:42,959 --> 02:38:44,600 taxes for the city oh yes 3378 02:38:44,600 --> 02:38:48,579 sir I do and a good example of this is Cyrus waters in Ir 3379 02:38:48,579 --> 02:38:50,239 ving it's kind of 3380 02:38:50,239 --> 02:38:52,870 South Coppell but it's actually in the city limits of Ir 3381 02:38:52,870 --> 02:38:54,000 ving and it is a brand 3382 02:38:54,000 --> 02:38:56,670 new mixed-use development by Billingsley and it's up next 3383 02:38:56,670 --> 02:38:57,559 there's you know around 3384 02:38:57,559 --> 02:39:00,930 the airport DFW there's so many industrial boxes down there 3385 02:39:00,930 --> 02:39:01,399 and they've 3386 02:39:01,399 --> 02:39:05,280 done a really good job of making it complementary to having 3387 02:39:05,280 --> 02:39:05,959 the urban 3388 02:39:05,959 --> 02:39:08,190 residential next to the industrial it looks really good but 3389 02:39:08,190 --> 02:39:08,719 they've got a lot 3390 02:39:08,719 --> 02:39:12,489 of corporate office that's corporate campus yes it makes 3391 02:39:12,489 --> 02:39:12,879 you corporate campus 3392 02:39:12,879 --> 02:39:17,319 gotcha yes sir awesome what what type of what type of 3393 02:39:17,319 --> 02:39:17,680 corporate 3394 02:39:17,680 --> 02:39:20,079 campuses do you think we would be attracted to that this 3395 02:39:20,079 --> 02:39:20,920 area specifically 3396 02:39:20,920 --> 02:39:24,799 I know that when we talked to the ED department they there 3397 02:39:24,799 --> 02:39:25,959 's a shortage of 3398 02:39:25,959 --> 02:39:30,389 you know campus you know kind of class a campus type of 3399 02:39:30,389 --> 02:39:32,760 settings okay and so not 3400 02:39:32,760 --> 02:39:35,909 a specific corporation but not a specific corporation but 3401 02:39:35,909 --> 02:39:36,360 we want 3402 02:39:36,360 --> 02:39:41,639 corporates headquarters to be relocated more of a more less 3403 02:39:41,639 --> 02:39:43,440 I guess industrial 3404 02:39:43,440 --> 02:39:45,579 type corporations but more office type professional 3405 02:39:45,579 --> 02:39:46,680 corporations you know I'm 3406 02:39:46,680 --> 02:39:51,850 trying to I have a picture I thought I had a picture so 3407 02:39:51,850 --> 02:39:52,920 what I do back up in 3408 02:39:52,920 --> 02:39:56,440 here okay yes these kind of campuses right here I think 3409 02:39:56,440 --> 02:39:57,000 some of these are in 3410 02:39:57,000 --> 02:40:00,889 Westlake great vine has some really good corporate campuses 3411 02:40:00,889 --> 02:40:01,879 but things along those 3412 02:40:01,879 --> 02:40:05,709 lines great thank you Commissioner Beck thank you chair 3413 02:40:05,709 --> 02:40:06,879 thank you mr. Vera for 3414 02:40:06,879 --> 02:40:09,489 your presentation and you kind of clarified something up 3415 02:40:09,489 --> 02:40:10,520 for me that was 3416 02:40:10,520 --> 02:40:13,440 aware of coming into it obviously there's not a specific 3417 02:40:13,440 --> 02:40:14,520 corporate entity 3418 02:40:14,520 --> 02:40:19,299 that's coming in here building this is strictly room place 3419 02:40:19,299 --> 02:40:20,600 for corporate 3420 02:40:20,600 --> 02:40:24,629 employees to live that's right this is once we are as able 3421 02:40:24,629 --> 02:40:25,479 to get the zoning we 3422 02:40:25,479 --> 02:40:27,889 can go out and target those and show them that look there's 3423 02:40:27,889 --> 02:40:28,639 an opportunity 3424 02:40:28,639 --> 02:40:33,079 here to have this environment to be to attract them and it 3425 02:40:33,079 --> 02:40:34,040 's my understanding 3426 02:40:34,040 --> 02:40:40,409 that you're gonna keep that pond and not invade that repair 3427 02:40:40,409 --> 02:40:42,200 that ESA there that 3428 02:40:42,200 --> 02:40:46,120 is actually gonna enhance it to serve your purposes okay 3429 02:40:46,120 --> 02:40:46,479 very good I like to 3430 02:40:46,479 --> 02:40:52,149 hear that what would your response be to the one complain 3431 02:40:52,149 --> 02:40:52,920 ant and I don't know if 3432 02:40:52,920 --> 02:40:55,799 he's here and I hope he is and hope steps up and talks to 3433 02:40:55,799 --> 02:40:56,840 it but his concern 3434 02:40:56,840 --> 02:41:02,370 that this type of project this time of development would 3435 02:41:02,370 --> 02:41:03,959 hurt potential 3436 02:41:03,959 --> 02:41:11,260 customers from utilizing the area he owns the ICE how would 3437 02:41:11,260 --> 02:41:12,600 you argue that 3438 02:41:12,600 --> 02:41:18,879 well I do I do understand that that's a concern of his and 3439 02:41:18,879 --> 02:41:21,200 I would tell him and 3440 02:41:21,200 --> 02:41:23,909 I believe my engineer told him that this morning that the 3441 02:41:23,909 --> 02:41:25,120 burden of the buffering 3442 02:41:25,120 --> 02:41:29,079 we can put on to the residential through the SCP process 3443 02:41:29,079 --> 02:41:31,360 and so that way you know 3444 02:41:31,360 --> 02:41:33,190 because I know he he'll go out there and try to target 3445 02:41:33,190 --> 02:41:34,079 industrial users and 3446 02:41:34,079 --> 02:41:36,600 they'll say oh my goodness the city's require me to do all 3447 02:41:36,600 --> 02:41:36,719 this 3448 02:41:36,719 --> 02:41:40,280 buffering because I'm next to apartments or whatever it is 3449 02:41:40,280 --> 02:41:41,319 you know and then he 3450 02:41:41,319 --> 02:41:44,459 we if we are able to say no this SCP was approved they 3451 02:41:44,459 --> 02:41:46,680 address the buffer and the 3452 02:41:46,680 --> 02:41:49,969 masonry walls there the live screens there since they've 3453 02:41:49,969 --> 02:41:50,680 got it on their 3454 02:41:50,680 --> 02:41:52,610 property you won't have to put it on theirs on the 3455 02:41:52,610 --> 02:41:54,479 industrial property and I 3456 02:41:54,479 --> 02:41:58,500 know this exists throughout the town or throughout the city 3457 02:41:58,500 --> 02:41:59,200 on the the 3458 02:41:59,200 --> 02:42:02,079 apartments that just got approved even south of here next 3459 02:42:02,079 --> 02:42:03,440 to Peterbilt you know 3460 02:42:03,440 --> 02:42:05,680 I think that there's some residential adjacency next to 3461 02:42:05,680 --> 02:42:06,399 industrial on a 3462 02:42:06,399 --> 02:42:11,040 project that he I think that he worked on but I understand 3463 02:42:11,040 --> 02:42:12,040 it and if I was in 3464 02:42:12,040 --> 02:42:14,340 his shoes I'd be saying the same thing you know that he is 3465 02:42:14,340 --> 02:42:15,200 saying just to make 3466 02:42:15,200 --> 02:42:18,829 sure that that the viability of him being able to target 3467 02:42:18,829 --> 02:42:20,319 industrial users is 3468 02:42:20,319 --> 02:42:23,319 still there and that it's not diminishing any value and I 3469 02:42:23,319 --> 02:42:24,079 think the 3470 02:42:24,079 --> 02:42:27,780 best way to do that is to put the screening requirements on 3471 02:42:27,780 --> 02:42:28,239 to the 3472 02:42:28,239 --> 02:42:30,729 residential user so it's your understanding his focus is 3473 02:42:30,729 --> 02:42:31,360 mainly on that 3474 02:42:31,360 --> 02:42:36,610 little southwest quadrant in there that's I'm still in like 3475 02:42:36,610 --> 02:42:38,040 the eastern yes 3476 02:42:38,040 --> 02:42:40,079 sir that that's my understanding because this is a 3477 02:42:40,079 --> 02:42:41,680 significant buffer and even 3478 02:42:41,680 --> 02:42:44,850 this is floodplain too so he's got adequate separation so 3479 02:42:44,850 --> 02:42:46,200 if this were to 3480 02:42:46,200 --> 02:42:48,739 right now it's in our - but if right if it was to be rez 3481 02:42:48,739 --> 02:42:49,959 oned to an industrial 3482 02:42:49,959 --> 02:42:52,520 then this buffer would already be in place for the 3483 02:42:52,520 --> 02:42:54,079 residential very good thank 3484 02:42:54,079 --> 02:43:02,239 you commissioner Sanchez excuse me you mentioned that his 3485 02:43:02,239 --> 02:43:03,120 second concern was 3486 02:43:03,120 --> 02:43:06,200 that there was some erosion contributes erosion problems 3487 02:43:06,200 --> 02:43:07,959 there it doesn't matter 3488 02:43:07,959 --> 02:43:11,379 who would own the property they'd have to fix it right I 3489 02:43:11,379 --> 02:43:13,959 mean if it's what if 3490 02:43:13,959 --> 02:43:17,899 the zoning didn't change and whatever was put in there the 3491 02:43:17,899 --> 02:43:19,559 erosion issue would 3492 02:43:19,559 --> 02:43:22,360 still be a concern for them well so it doesn't really 3493 02:43:22,360 --> 02:43:25,520 affect the zoning or what 3494 02:43:25,520 --> 02:43:29,149 changing the zoning because it that has to be addressed 3495 02:43:29,149 --> 02:43:30,479 either way owns a 3496 02:43:30,479 --> 02:43:32,899 property so going through the development process and all 3497 02:43:32,899 --> 02:43:33,520 the permitting 3498 02:43:33,520 --> 02:43:36,690 and designing we would be able to evaluate the pond and 3499 02:43:36,690 --> 02:43:38,639 figure out why you 3500 02:43:38,639 --> 02:43:41,950 know if the release of that pond is causing that erosion we 3501 02:43:41,950 --> 02:43:43,280 can fix that you 3502 02:43:43,280 --> 02:43:46,020 know if when we do develop it and we do this study with a 3503 02:43:46,020 --> 02:43:47,239 hydrologist and I 3504 02:43:47,239 --> 02:43:50,000 think maybe the point source is to define so it's creating 3505 02:43:50,000 --> 02:43:50,959 that erosion you 3506 02:43:50,959 --> 02:43:54,799 know as it goes down there and if we create that discharge 3507 02:43:54,799 --> 02:43:55,920 to be done in the 3508 02:43:55,920 --> 02:43:59,129 right way we can minimize it and and and fix it I mean that 3509 02:43:59,129 --> 02:44:00,559 that's it would take 3510 02:44:00,559 --> 02:44:03,549 a study by hard our hydrologist to determine what's really 3511 02:44:03,549 --> 02:44:04,360 going on there 3512 02:44:04,360 --> 02:44:07,889 yeah I guess my point was it doesn't make a difference who 3513 02:44:07,889 --> 02:44:08,719 owns a property 3514 02:44:08,719 --> 02:44:11,159 what how they develop it it's gonna have to be addressed 3515 02:44:11,159 --> 02:44:12,399 and you guys are 3516 02:44:12,399 --> 02:44:15,819 addressing it yes so so that's that's what I was getting 3517 02:44:15,819 --> 02:44:17,200 that so that's that's 3518 02:44:17,200 --> 02:44:25,239 not a point of commission Roselle next year mr. if you 3519 02:44:25,239 --> 02:44:26,200 switch the corporate 3520 02:44:26,200 --> 02:44:29,209 campus in the urban residential with that that would play 3521 02:44:29,209 --> 02:44:30,280 into the ability to 3522 02:44:30,280 --> 02:44:34,709 provide the buffer through the SUP process correct well 3523 02:44:34,709 --> 02:44:38,600 well if we put the 3524 02:44:38,600 --> 02:44:42,340 urban residential on this side if there's already adequate 3525 02:44:42,340 --> 02:44:43,520 buffer naturally 3526 02:44:43,520 --> 02:44:47,149 okay what I would have more and getting at is is the 3527 02:44:47,149 --> 02:44:48,399 opposition concerned if the 3528 02:44:48,399 --> 02:44:51,239 corporate campus was on the western side of the property 3529 02:44:51,239 --> 02:44:52,479 about the buffering 3530 02:44:52,479 --> 02:44:56,569 between those type of uses was that talked about at all can 3531 02:44:56,569 --> 02:44:57,639 you clarify your 3532 02:44:57,639 --> 02:45:00,610 question so I understand that if the urban residential is 3533 02:45:00,610 --> 02:45:01,079 on the west side 3534 02:45:01,079 --> 02:45:03,840 of property you can go through the SUP process to establish 3535 02:45:03,840 --> 02:45:05,360 barriers I'm 3536 02:45:05,360 --> 02:45:08,479 curious is if there's a response to the opposition if the 3537 02:45:08,479 --> 02:45:09,760 corporate campus and 3538 02:45:09,760 --> 02:45:14,049 the residential was switched there would not be a buffer in 3539 02:45:14,049 --> 02:45:15,239 place between the two 3540 02:45:15,239 --> 02:45:18,159 uses of ICE and the corporate campus yeah it wouldn't 3541 02:45:18,159 --> 02:45:20,120 really be necessary if 3542 02:45:20,120 --> 02:45:26,430 they're they're more compatible okay yes thanks any other 3543 02:45:26,430 --> 02:45:27,040 questions for the 3544 02:45:27,040 --> 02:45:33,239 applicant thank you for your comments I have one other card 3545 02:45:33,239 --> 02:45:34,280 wishing to speak on 3546 02:45:34,280 --> 02:45:41,760 this item Philip a Baker PO box 2424 in opposition 3547 02:45:41,840 --> 02:45:49,959 Baker excuse me Philip Baker PO box 2424 dead in Texas 3548 02:45:49,959 --> 02:45:55,360 I'm supposed to say you're good okay I'm vice president of 3549 02:45:55,360 --> 02:45:56,120 the razor company I 3550 02:45:56,120 --> 02:45:59,750 represent razor investments and we own 130 acres around 3551 02:45:59,750 --> 02:46:01,280 selling school selling 3552 02:46:01,280 --> 02:46:04,489 schools originally part of all the land we own we gave that 3553 02:46:04,489 --> 02:46:06,440 land to them 40 years 3554 02:46:06,440 --> 02:46:10,670 ago so we're well familiar with that all that land and I'm 3555 02:46:10,670 --> 02:46:11,959 not just concerned 3556 02:46:11,959 --> 02:46:15,840 about the 10 acres on the southwest corner of that property 3557 02:46:15,840 --> 02:46:16,760 I'm concerned 3558 02:46:16,760 --> 02:46:20,010 about the 130 acres that surrounded its own industrial or 3559 02:46:20,010 --> 02:46:21,159 industrial employment 3560 02:46:21,159 --> 02:46:24,250 center it's not identified on there but the employment 3561 02:46:24,250 --> 02:46:25,280 centers on the right side 3562 02:46:25,280 --> 02:46:28,399 it wasn't highlighted there is floodplain there but it's 3563 02:46:28,399 --> 02:46:28,760 not been 3564 02:46:28,760 --> 02:46:32,579 studied so it's an it's unknown exactly how much would have 3565 02:46:32,579 --> 02:46:33,000 to be in that 3566 02:46:33,000 --> 02:46:37,659 stream as far as the pond goes it's an unengineered unstud 3567 02:46:37,659 --> 02:46:39,239 ied and I can tell 3568 02:46:39,239 --> 02:46:42,250 you why it's doesn't work right because they didn't build a 3569 02:46:42,250 --> 02:46:43,040 dam on it there's no 3570 02:46:43,040 --> 02:46:45,879 spillway the water goes in and it comes out in the same 3571 02:46:45,879 --> 02:46:47,479 place and it spills down 3572 02:46:47,479 --> 02:46:52,079 to the south it's it's just a some mess we've done some 3573 02:46:52,079 --> 02:46:53,020 preliminary work the 3574 02:46:53,020 --> 02:46:55,510 Army Corps of Engineers has told us they would just as soon 3575 02:46:55,510 --> 02:46:56,440 see it go away and 3576 02:46:56,440 --> 02:46:59,469 the stream put back in place like it was before I got dam 3577 02:46:59,469 --> 02:47:00,879 med up by selling school 3578 02:47:00,879 --> 02:47:04,600 with that pond so it's hardly an amenity to us or probably 3579 02:47:04,600 --> 02:47:05,799 to anybody else and if 3580 02:47:05,799 --> 02:47:09,559 it breaks it's going to be a big mess that's not why I'm 3581 02:47:09,559 --> 02:47:11,120 here though my 3582 02:47:11,120 --> 02:47:14,739 understanding is that the applicant or the zoning 3583 02:47:14,739 --> 02:47:16,319 application would allow for 3584 02:47:16,319 --> 02:47:22,770 retail restaurants and multifamily and I think the big 3585 02:47:22,770 --> 02:47:24,239 issue is the 3586 02:47:24,239 --> 02:47:28,360 multifamily and I'll explain that now I don't inherently 3587 02:47:28,360 --> 02:47:29,680 oppose the restaurant 3588 02:47:29,680 --> 02:47:33,840 or retail along the strip along University it's it would 3589 02:47:33,840 --> 02:47:35,000 probably work 3590 02:47:35,000 --> 02:47:38,510 there if you if you go down and look south and quick trip 3591 02:47:38,510 --> 02:47:39,879 you'll see Northern 3592 02:47:39,879 --> 02:47:43,180 Tool going in you'll see a couple other businesses that's 3593 02:47:43,180 --> 02:47:44,319 that could easily 3594 02:47:44,319 --> 02:47:48,329 happen there and would be an addition a positive thing I 3595 02:47:48,329 --> 02:47:49,879 think the restaurants 3596 02:47:49,879 --> 02:47:53,909 be okay I doubt that they would be successful because there 3597 02:47:53,909 --> 02:47:54,799 's so much of 3598 02:47:54,799 --> 02:47:57,290 that kind of activity over on raise a ranch in the town 3599 02:47:57,290 --> 02:47:59,120 center it's it's 3600 02:47:59,120 --> 02:48:02,219 probably unlikely there but it's it's something somebody 3601 02:48:02,219 --> 02:48:03,319 could take a risk for 3602 02:48:03,319 --> 02:48:06,530 if they wanted to and I wouldn't object I think the pattern 3603 02:48:06,530 --> 02:48:07,520 for that is already 3604 02:48:07,520 --> 02:48:11,290 established there because of the church to the West and 3605 02:48:11,290 --> 02:48:13,879 what was their old that 3606 02:48:13,879 --> 02:48:16,979 the building that's now a building an office building it 3607 02:48:16,979 --> 02:48:18,479 was there the home 3608 02:48:18,479 --> 02:48:21,360 for the pastor that was built that was why it's originally 3609 02:48:21,360 --> 02:48:22,479 there but that strip 3610 02:48:22,479 --> 02:48:25,840 was sort of established there and so it's it's logical and 3611 02:48:25,840 --> 02:48:26,719 fair that that 3612 02:48:26,719 --> 02:48:30,399 would continue maybe all the way to the railroad the multif 3613 02:48:30,399 --> 02:48:31,879 amily is the problem 3614 02:48:31,879 --> 02:48:36,309 we just closed on 45 acres to United States cold storage 3615 02:48:36,309 --> 02:48:36,920 they're building a 3616 02:48:36,920 --> 02:48:40,799 major facility just off Jim Crystal those kinds of 3617 02:48:40,799 --> 02:48:41,840 businesses don't want to 3618 02:48:41,840 --> 02:48:46,790 be around residential of any kind and to give you an 3619 02:48:46,790 --> 02:48:49,360 example when we before we 3620 02:48:49,360 --> 02:48:52,239 closed on that deal they wanted assurances that we would 3621 02:48:52,239 --> 02:48:53,159 not allow that 3622 02:48:53,159 --> 02:48:57,420 on the 50 acres adjacent and we deed restricted it so it 3623 02:48:57,420 --> 02:48:58,840 can't target when 3624 02:48:58,840 --> 02:49:02,489 they came in we deed restricted 80 acres they don't want to 3625 02:49:02,489 --> 02:49:03,120 be around 3626 02:49:03,120 --> 02:49:08,110 residential now that zoning change I brought up was brought 3627 02:49:08,110 --> 02:49:08,799 up the south of 3628 02:49:08,799 --> 02:49:14,870 here if there was a separation like precision Boulevard 3629 02:49:14,870 --> 02:49:16,360 some kind of land 3630 02:49:16,360 --> 02:49:19,530 feature that separated that land from the industrial then I 3631 02:49:19,530 --> 02:49:20,239 probably be 3632 02:49:20,239 --> 02:49:24,739 wouldn't object to it because a roadway that goes somewhere 3633 02:49:24,739 --> 02:49:26,879 a river whatever but 3634 02:49:26,879 --> 02:49:30,299 that buffer proposed up there is not a buffer at all it's 3635 02:49:30,299 --> 02:49:31,360 not it's nonsense 3636 02:49:31,360 --> 02:49:35,500 that it's going to do anything to discourage to allow an 3637 02:49:35,500 --> 02:49:37,079 industrial user to 3638 02:49:37,079 --> 02:49:42,879 come in there so I'm sort of stuck here you you cover the 3639 02:49:42,879 --> 02:49:44,100 40 or 50 acres with 3640 02:49:44,100 --> 02:49:47,610 high density residential then that's going to screw the 3641 02:49:47,610 --> 02:49:48,959 rest of that 130 3642 02:49:48,959 --> 02:49:52,840 acres there so what am I faced with coming and asking you 3643 02:49:52,840 --> 02:49:53,319 to rezone 3644 02:49:53,319 --> 02:49:57,479 industrial land I'm not going to do it that's industrial 3645 02:49:57,479 --> 02:49:58,399 land the pattern has 3646 02:49:58,399 --> 02:50:01,379 already been established the only reason that isn't 3647 02:50:01,379 --> 02:50:02,920 industrials because of selling 3648 02:50:02,920 --> 02:50:07,350 school the patterns already there it's industrial land or 3649 02:50:07,350 --> 02:50:08,440 employment center land 3650 02:50:08,440 --> 02:50:11,899 the corporate campus I'm not inherently opposed to but I 3651 02:50:11,899 --> 02:50:12,600 don't think that's 3652 02:50:12,600 --> 02:50:17,159 what's going on here I think that's just just there as an 3653 02:50:17,159 --> 02:50:18,040 option but I don't 3654 02:50:18,040 --> 02:50:20,319 think it's what we're talking about we're talking about 3655 02:50:20,319 --> 02:50:21,760 residential high 3656 02:50:21,760 --> 02:50:24,790 density and I think it's going to turn off industrial users 3657 02:50:24,790 --> 02:50:25,680 so it's a choice 3658 02:50:25,680 --> 02:50:28,989 if we want that to be industrial out there and that's what 3659 02:50:28,989 --> 02:50:30,040 's been established 3660 02:50:30,040 --> 02:50:34,059 by the city in their 2030 plan I don't think the fact 3661 02:50:34,059 --> 02:50:35,639 pattern of the land that 3662 02:50:35,639 --> 02:50:38,799 was south of there east of pack are and we also incident 3663 02:50:38,799 --> 02:50:39,959 ally just for your 3664 02:50:39,959 --> 02:50:43,590 information we heavily deed restricted that so that there 3665 02:50:43,590 --> 02:50:44,520 would never be any 3666 02:50:44,520 --> 02:50:46,879 conflict between the corporate and that use that was 3667 02:50:46,879 --> 02:50:48,120 established there by this 3668 02:50:48,120 --> 02:50:53,930 body are not by this book by the City Council so anyway 3669 02:50:53,930 --> 02:50:55,680 that's if you have any 3670 02:50:55,680 --> 02:50:58,639 questions all happy to answer I think I think that's a 3671 02:50:58,639 --> 02:51:00,120 summary I'm not totally 3672 02:51:00,120 --> 02:51:02,940 like the retail the restaurant I think I think that would 3673 02:51:02,940 --> 02:51:04,000 be acceptable along 3674 02:51:04,000 --> 02:51:07,159 that strip but not the residential the corporate and I 3675 02:51:07,159 --> 02:51:08,200 think the lake is 3676 02:51:08,200 --> 02:51:10,909 probably either gonna go away it's hardly an amenity it's 3677 02:51:10,909 --> 02:51:11,760 gonna take a lot 3678 02:51:11,760 --> 02:51:14,920 of study and it's it's it's a problem it was an engineer 3679 02:51:14,920 --> 02:51:15,780 and that's some 3680 02:51:15,780 --> 02:51:21,850 questions for you I had some questions in the bed you 3681 02:51:21,850 --> 02:51:22,840 brought up the property 3682 02:51:22,840 --> 02:51:24,909 down by Peterbilt because that's what I was gonna ask you 3683 02:51:24,909 --> 02:51:25,719 about you were here 3684 02:51:25,719 --> 02:51:29,639 before us a few months ago and I believe it was a it's not 3685 02:51:29,639 --> 02:51:30,479 identical but it's a 3686 02:51:30,479 --> 02:51:35,100 similar project where you've got a lot of topography you 3687 02:51:35,100 --> 02:51:37,280 got a big lake and the 3688 02:51:37,280 --> 02:51:40,030 point you made before us was because of those natural 3689 02:51:40,030 --> 02:51:41,840 features that property 3690 02:51:41,840 --> 02:51:44,969 really won't be able to be developed into industrial then 3691 02:51:44,969 --> 02:51:46,360 you ask us to make 3692 02:51:46,360 --> 02:51:49,879 that apartments essentially so can you explain the 3693 02:51:49,879 --> 02:51:51,200 differences to why it's okay 3694 02:51:51,200 --> 02:51:54,620 there but it's not okay here with some of the very same 3695 02:51:54,620 --> 02:51:56,040 types of features and 3696 02:51:56,040 --> 02:51:59,469 zoning there is the there is the lake we think the lake 3697 02:51:59,469 --> 02:52:00,840 needs to go away and will 3698 02:52:00,840 --> 02:52:04,469 eventually go away it wasn't engineered it wasn't designed 3699 02:52:04,469 --> 02:52:06,440 as a lake it basically 3700 02:52:06,440 --> 02:52:10,069 some amateurs dug a hole in the ground and filled it with 3701 02:52:10,069 --> 02:52:11,719 water there is a 3702 02:52:11,719 --> 02:52:14,930 topography issue but there's no natural land features like 3703 02:52:14,930 --> 02:52:16,000 we're bringing in 3704 02:52:16,000 --> 02:52:19,040 we're building a 1.5 million dollar roadway that's going to 3705 02:52:19,040 --> 02:52:19,760 separate that 3706 02:52:19,760 --> 02:52:25,829 land over there it's not it's not as integral it's not as 3707 02:52:25,829 --> 02:52:26,479 integrated into 3708 02:52:26,479 --> 02:52:29,840 this as this piece is this this is part of a whole piece of 3709 02:52:29,840 --> 02:52:30,879 land over there 3710 02:52:30,879 --> 02:52:33,989 there's no natural features now yes you say the lake but 3711 02:52:33,989 --> 02:52:35,280 the stream has got to 3712 02:52:35,280 --> 02:52:38,979 be dealt with but I think the lake is going to go away the 3713 02:52:38,979 --> 02:52:40,600 topography is an 3714 02:52:40,600 --> 02:52:43,809 issue I don't know that it's of the great magnitude that it 3715 02:52:43,809 --> 02:52:44,639 can't be dealt 3716 02:52:44,639 --> 02:52:48,520 with in land the cold storage had a topography issue too 3717 02:52:48,520 --> 02:52:49,280 and they're dealing 3718 02:52:49,280 --> 02:52:53,709 with it it's not as severe as that but but there's no 3719 02:52:53,709 --> 02:52:55,079 separation there's no 3720 02:52:55,079 --> 02:52:58,709 roadway and I think that's the big distinction is that this 3721 02:52:58,709 --> 02:53:00,639 is this is this 3722 02:53:00,639 --> 02:53:04,559 is this is our land this is theirs right in the middle of 3723 02:53:04,559 --> 02:53:07,799 it we surround it so 3724 02:53:07,799 --> 02:53:12,040 that's the difference you know if you want to rezone all 3725 02:53:12,040 --> 02:53:13,239 that multifamily out 3726 02:53:13,239 --> 02:53:16,479 there I guess we'll go for it and I don't think that's the 3727 02:53:16,479 --> 02:53:17,399 right thing I 3728 02:53:17,399 --> 02:53:20,500 don't think that's what this city wants it's established 3729 02:53:20,500 --> 02:53:21,760 already as industrial 3730 02:53:21,760 --> 02:53:26,040 land and I don't want to sound I don't think I'm being 3731 02:53:26,040 --> 02:53:26,879 hypocritical here I 3732 02:53:26,879 --> 02:53:29,989 think there is a distinction between that land and the land 3733 02:53:29,989 --> 02:53:30,959 we're over there 3734 02:53:30,959 --> 02:53:34,319 by Packard we're separating it all off by building a road 3735 02:53:34,319 --> 02:53:36,559 way well I can't speak 3736 02:53:36,559 --> 02:53:40,549 to any other person's point of view but mine at least in my 3737 02:53:40,549 --> 02:53:41,959 opinion in looking 3738 02:53:41,959 --> 02:53:44,739 at this and I hear what your concerns are what I see in 3739 02:53:44,739 --> 02:53:45,760 this particular site 3740 02:53:45,760 --> 02:53:49,600 is a large area to the south of it that's either floodplain 3741 02:53:49,600 --> 02:53:50,399 or Lake and 3742 02:53:50,399 --> 02:53:53,350 where the lake stays or not well they'll have to have some 3743 02:53:53,350 --> 02:53:54,479 type of detention 3744 02:53:54,479 --> 02:53:57,370 feature there so there'll be some buffer there on the far 3745 02:53:57,370 --> 02:53:58,399 west side of it I don't 3746 02:53:58,399 --> 02:54:02,209 know how wide that strip is it was in red that's in an eas 3747 02:54:02,209 --> 02:54:03,879 ement there was a 3748 02:54:03,879 --> 02:54:07,559 large strip there was a large strip and I don't know if we 3749 02:54:07,559 --> 02:54:09,200 can pull that slide 3750 02:54:09,200 --> 02:54:12,690 back up but there's a very large strip I would guess it's 3751 02:54:12,690 --> 02:54:14,440 at least 50 feet if not 3752 02:54:14,440 --> 02:54:16,680 more 3753 02:54:20,280 --> 02:54:26,079 right there on the west side there's nothing there that's 3754 02:54:26,079 --> 02:54:26,879 just land to you 3755 02:54:26,879 --> 02:54:31,170 too there's an easement there and maybe the there is a 3756 02:54:31,170 --> 02:54:32,799 there is a gas pipeline 3757 02:54:32,799 --> 02:54:36,510 that goes to that well site in the southeast corner that's 3758 02:54:36,510 --> 02:54:37,040 what you're 3759 02:54:37,040 --> 02:54:40,840 talking about you don't see it on the ground surface wise 3760 02:54:40,840 --> 02:54:41,479 well they can't 3761 02:54:41,479 --> 02:54:48,000 build a so it's effectively a buffer it's 50 feet wide I'd 3762 02:54:48,000 --> 02:54:49,440 ask the engineer 3763 02:54:49,440 --> 02:54:53,549 to please approach and you can give it give that answer to 3764 02:54:53,549 --> 02:54:54,799 us on the record 3765 02:54:58,799 --> 02:55:00,840 yes there's there's a portion of the sanitary sewer eas 3766 02:55:00,840 --> 02:55:03,040 ement that comes in 3767 02:55:03,040 --> 02:55:06,120 you know the one that goes east to west here and it goes 3768 02:55:06,120 --> 02:55:07,520 within this easement 3769 02:55:07,520 --> 02:55:13,309 but I think this is actually 30 30 feet wide 33 I believe 3770 02:55:13,309 --> 02:55:13,799 so yes sir 3771 02:55:13,799 --> 02:55:16,040 continues on west 3772 02:55:22,079 --> 02:55:27,329 there is a easement for that was that was put on this plot 3773 02:55:27,329 --> 02:55:28,479 so I was assuming 3774 02:55:28,479 --> 02:55:30,520 the sewer easement was their sewer line was in that eas 3775 02:55:30,520 --> 02:55:31,399 ement they may go to the 3776 02:55:31,399 --> 02:55:34,479 building to the north I don't know but my point to you sir 3777 02:55:34,479 --> 02:55:35,360 is there is an 3778 02:55:35,360 --> 02:55:38,180 easement there that although it may not be a 50-foot right 3779 02:55:38,180 --> 02:55:39,319 away like a road it 3780 02:55:39,319 --> 02:55:42,079 is somewhat already pre-established there so there is 3781 02:55:42,079 --> 02:55:43,120 somewhat of a buffer 3782 02:55:43,120 --> 02:55:46,409 and really the only piece that then is of question is the 3783 02:55:46,409 --> 02:55:47,840 little bitty southern 3784 02:55:47,840 --> 02:55:52,600 portion there so that was the reason for my question to you 3785 02:55:52,600 --> 02:55:54,159 this seems very 3786 02:55:54,159 --> 02:55:57,909 similar to some of the very same things that you brought 3787 02:55:57,909 --> 02:55:59,440 before us a few months 3788 02:55:59,440 --> 02:56:04,120 ago with buffers topography and and you know it was the 3789 02:56:04,120 --> 02:56:05,840 best use of the property 3790 02:56:05,840 --> 02:56:08,760 and I'm not trying to pin you down hypocritical but I was 3791 02:56:08,760 --> 02:56:09,559 asking for an 3792 02:56:09,559 --> 02:56:13,989 explanation as to why this piece is so inherently different 3793 02:56:13,989 --> 02:56:15,520 in your view while 3794 02:56:15,520 --> 02:56:18,420 the other one that has very similar things was okay it's 3795 02:56:18,420 --> 02:56:19,120 configured 3796 02:56:19,120 --> 02:56:22,870 differently and it's also separated by a roadway well and 3797 02:56:22,870 --> 02:56:23,680 that's my that's not 3798 02:56:23,680 --> 02:56:27,770 that isn't here done here there's not segregated I don't 3799 02:56:27,770 --> 02:56:28,360 think the easement 3800 02:56:28,360 --> 02:56:32,040 qualifies in that magnitude of separation okay that's my 3801 02:56:32,040 --> 02:56:33,040 opinion okay a 3802 02:56:33,040 --> 02:56:37,120 roadway separates you you've got on the other side of the 3803 02:56:37,120 --> 02:56:37,719 street you have 3804 02:56:37,719 --> 02:56:44,430 residential and well my point is if it stays multifamily 3805 02:56:44,430 --> 02:56:46,079 more than likely it'll 3806 02:56:46,079 --> 02:56:48,829 have the 30-foot easement and will probably some type of 3807 02:56:48,829 --> 02:56:49,600 parking lot and 3808 02:56:49,600 --> 02:56:52,799 fire ingress to address and there'll be a pretty 3809 02:56:52,799 --> 02:56:55,200 substantial buffer between any 3810 02:56:55,200 --> 02:56:59,479 multifamily to anything that's to the West is and if if 3811 02:56:59,479 --> 02:57:01,079 they happen to flip 3812 02:57:01,079 --> 02:57:03,969 the two and put the corporate campus on the West and the 3813 02:57:03,969 --> 02:57:05,239 residential on the East 3814 02:57:05,239 --> 02:57:10,239 then it's even a lesser issue so those were just two 3815 02:57:10,239 --> 02:57:12,540 questions that I ask I 3816 02:57:12,540 --> 02:57:15,069 appreciate your answer and I've got a number of people that 3817 02:57:15,069 --> 02:57:15,840 have some other 3818 02:57:15,840 --> 02:57:18,959 question to Commissioner back thank you chair mr. Baker 3819 02:57:18,959 --> 02:57:19,559 thank you for coming 3820 02:57:19,559 --> 02:57:26,000 down I'm glad to put the face with the name actually 3821 02:57:26,000 --> 02:57:27,440 chairman strange went 3822 02:57:27,440 --> 02:57:30,200 directly to my concern the fact that y'all had wanted to 3823 02:57:30,200 --> 02:57:30,639 build the 3824 02:57:30,639 --> 02:57:36,120 multifamily just south of there your comment was that none 3825 02:57:36,120 --> 02:57:37,239 of your customers 3826 02:57:37,239 --> 02:57:40,850 that want to build an ICE would want to be anywhere near 3827 02:57:40,850 --> 02:57:42,319 residential in roadway 3828 02:57:42,319 --> 02:57:45,950 or not that's not gonna be that big of a divider that puts 3829 02:57:45,950 --> 02:57:46,760 them in close 3830 02:57:46,760 --> 02:57:49,959 proximity to residential so I would tend to agree with 3831 02:57:49,959 --> 02:57:51,719 Chairman strange that this 3832 02:57:51,719 --> 02:57:57,200 this isn't that dissimilar but is it in your opinion that 3833 02:57:57,200 --> 02:57:58,319 this like there's no 3834 02:57:58,319 --> 02:58:06,959 way this lake this pond can be engineered to be stable do 3835 02:58:06,959 --> 02:58:07,920 it have to be it would 3836 02:58:07,920 --> 02:58:12,680 have to probably be rebuilt okay I we haven't thought of 3837 02:58:12,680 --> 02:58:13,639 any taking any action 3838 02:58:13,639 --> 02:58:17,270 yes but the water the drains the water streams into it and 3839 02:58:17,270 --> 02:58:18,360 comes out at the 3840 02:58:18,360 --> 02:58:21,260 east end and it floods down south across our land has 3841 02:58:21,260 --> 02:58:22,760 caused damage to our land 3842 02:58:22,760 --> 02:58:26,680 in erosion somehow that stream has to be dealt with we 3843 02:58:26,680 --> 02:58:27,680 haven't considered any 3844 02:58:27,680 --> 02:58:32,799 action because it was owned by someone school and and quite 3845 02:58:32,799 --> 02:58:34,940 frankly I have to 3846 02:58:34,940 --> 02:58:38,299 keep reminding myself that it was about charity and that's 3847 02:58:38,299 --> 02:58:39,559 how we got into this 3848 02:58:39,559 --> 02:58:43,989 mess of the land being configured like it is because the 3849 02:58:43,989 --> 02:58:45,479 family was mr. razor 3850 02:58:45,479 --> 02:58:48,639 was more interested in charitable good to sell in school 3851 02:58:48,639 --> 02:58:50,479 than they was in and 3852 02:58:50,479 --> 02:58:54,799 concerned about his land and so and and and even after they 3853 02:58:54,799 --> 02:58:55,840 got into some 3854 02:58:55,840 --> 02:59:00,790 financial trouble and they approached us about it was 3855 02:59:00,790 --> 02:59:02,239 originally a gift of 125 3856 02:59:02,239 --> 02:59:05,770 acres it's only about 80 acres now I think and they got 3857 02:59:05,770 --> 02:59:07,079 into trouble and 3858 02:59:07,079 --> 02:59:12,329 approached us and we bought back 50 acres and here again 50 3859 02:59:12,329 --> 02:59:13,200 acres all in the 3860 02:59:13,200 --> 02:59:16,799 floodplain and we paid a damn good penny for it so it was I 3861 02:59:16,799 --> 02:59:17,399 keep reminding 3862 02:59:17,399 --> 02:59:21,079 myself that was about charity not about industrial 3863 02:59:21,079 --> 02:59:24,639 development so that's how we 3864 02:59:24,639 --> 02:59:28,790 ended up with that 10 acres is that we basically that we 3865 02:59:28,790 --> 02:59:29,739 took whatever they 3866 02:59:29,739 --> 02:59:32,760 wanted to give up but I guess my question is in the concern 3867 02:59:32,760 --> 02:59:33,479 here that you've 3868 02:59:33,479 --> 02:59:38,569 expressed if the applicant can show us that that thing can 3869 02:59:38,569 --> 02:59:39,520 be engineered to 3870 02:59:39,520 --> 02:59:45,190 meet your concerns the safety of it you know I can that be 3871 02:59:45,190 --> 02:59:46,200 removed from the 3872 02:59:46,200 --> 02:59:50,500 equation then I would I mean I don't have any objection to 3873 02:59:50,500 --> 02:59:51,360 the lake per se 3874 02:59:51,360 --> 02:59:55,239 it's a bit it it's just a problem and if it stays there it 3875 02:59:55,239 --> 02:59:56,639 stays there I assume 3876 02:59:56,639 --> 03:00:01,709 that that the proper authorities would look after the city 3877 03:00:01,709 --> 03:00:03,040 when in its own 3878 03:00:03,040 --> 03:00:07,270 oversight and approvals would make sure that it's dealt 3879 03:00:07,270 --> 03:00:09,040 with properly I mean we 3880 03:00:09,040 --> 03:00:14,739 we're not we don't have anything contemplated except I don 3881 03:00:14,739 --> 03:00:15,879 't see anything 3882 03:00:15,879 --> 03:00:19,079 happening till it's dealt with in a proper fashion and it 3883 03:00:19,079 --> 03:00:20,200 never has been I 3884 03:00:20,200 --> 03:00:23,579 don't know that it will be so in school the reason it's 3885 03:00:23,579 --> 03:00:24,719 like that because I 3886 03:00:24,719 --> 03:00:27,489 don't think there was any concern given when they wanted to 3887 03:00:27,489 --> 03:00:28,360 plant it and they 3888 03:00:28,360 --> 03:00:31,700 basically gave up all that land that's all in a drainage 3889 03:00:31,700 --> 03:00:33,040 easement and I think 3890 03:00:33,040 --> 03:00:36,049 they just surrendered it without really much thought study 3891 03:00:36,049 --> 03:00:38,200 or anything else and 3892 03:00:38,200 --> 03:00:43,159 I certainly would have never done it but so it's it's it's 3893 03:00:43,159 --> 03:00:45,079 really a colossal mess 3894 03:00:45,079 --> 03:00:49,840 really in my opinion even for the future of industrial 3895 03:00:49,840 --> 03:00:50,799 development out there I'm 3896 03:00:50,799 --> 03:00:54,219 not sure how we're gonna do it at this moment I could tell 3897 03:00:54,219 --> 03:00:55,280 you how we would 3898 03:00:55,280 --> 03:01:00,010 deal with that because of the problems that exist and but 3899 03:01:00,010 --> 03:01:01,719 we do we are holding 3900 03:01:01,719 --> 03:01:05,239 it for industrial development in our land the 130 acres 3901 03:01:05,239 --> 03:01:07,520 around it and so 3902 03:01:07,520 --> 03:01:11,149 that's what we want to try to do for economic development 3903 03:01:11,149 --> 03:01:14,159 here in the city so 3904 03:01:14,159 --> 03:01:17,520 you know if there was a way to do this and it didn't harm 3905 03:01:17,520 --> 03:01:19,120 any cause any harm I 3906 03:01:19,120 --> 03:01:24,620 wouldn't be opposed to it but corporations don't typical 3907 03:01:24,620 --> 03:01:25,479 and mine 3908 03:01:25,479 --> 03:01:28,379 wasn't a piece of cake either down there but the roadway 3909 03:01:28,379 --> 03:01:29,920 was the big factor it 3910 03:01:29,920 --> 03:01:33,209 separated it in their minds separate enough that it wouldn 3911 03:01:33,209 --> 03:01:33,959 't cause any 3912 03:01:33,959 --> 03:01:37,000 problems and it was off to the side it wasn't surrounded so 3913 03:01:37,000 --> 03:01:38,440 I think there was 3914 03:01:38,440 --> 03:01:41,229 distinguishing features and I'm not trying to pick hairs 3915 03:01:41,229 --> 03:01:42,799 Commissioner 3916 03:01:42,799 --> 03:01:46,360 chairman's difference of opinion yeah so all right thank 3917 03:01:46,360 --> 03:01:48,040 you sir I have a number 3918 03:01:48,040 --> 03:01:50,920 of questions so I appreciate your patience and kinder to 3919 03:01:50,920 --> 03:01:51,559 answer them 3920 03:01:51,559 --> 03:01:55,190 Commissioner Smith thank you chair mr. Baker you said Colt 3921 03:01:55,190 --> 03:01:56,799 storage was moving 3922 03:01:56,799 --> 03:01:59,860 in where exactly on Jim Crystal they're on the south side 3923 03:01:59,860 --> 03:02:00,760 of the southeast corner 3924 03:02:00,760 --> 03:02:03,340 of the rail spur and Jim Crystal so Jim Crystal in the 3925 03:02:03,340 --> 03:02:04,760 western you said or no 3926 03:02:04,760 --> 03:02:09,270 Jim Crystal in the rail spur they need rail access they 3927 03:02:09,270 --> 03:02:10,200 they they're gonna 3928 03:02:10,200 --> 03:02:14,239 bring in so we could see that up on the screen 3929 03:02:18,040 --> 03:02:32,440 be that it's a big panel we're in 3930 03:02:48,040 --> 03:02:56,489 is that it's further south yeah can you bring that up I 3931 03:02:56,489 --> 03:03:02,319 think that's good yes 3932 03:03:02,319 --> 03:03:05,610 all right east of that there's a rail spur that goes north 3933 03:03:05,610 --> 03:03:06,840 and south it's 3934 03:03:06,840 --> 03:03:11,459 about so right near the area 84 lumber or hundred yards 3935 03:03:11,459 --> 03:03:13,399 from Western they're 3936 03:03:13,399 --> 03:03:17,350 right along the rail spur 50 acres they're adjacent to pack 3937 03:03:17,350 --> 03:03:18,200 car okay okay 3938 03:03:18,200 --> 03:03:21,409 and see where you are it's a rectangular site I see where 3939 03:03:21,409 --> 03:03:23,799 you are sure okay so I 3940 03:03:23,799 --> 03:03:27,639 think that makes my point it's it's not adjacent to this 3941 03:03:27,639 --> 03:03:28,760 property in question 3942 03:03:28,760 --> 03:03:32,270 no certainly no it's pretty it's pretty far out no that 3943 03:03:32,270 --> 03:03:33,319 that is I was just 3944 03:03:33,319 --> 03:03:37,000 making the reference to those businesses would not locate 3945 03:03:37,000 --> 03:03:37,959 adjacent to this 3946 03:03:37,959 --> 03:03:42,139 project okay that business that's the that's the they 3947 03:03:42,139 --> 03:03:43,559 wouldn't share a boundary 3948 03:03:43,559 --> 03:03:46,870 line with that business sure that was the issue with target 3949 03:03:46,870 --> 03:03:48,040 it wasn't about 3950 03:03:48,040 --> 03:03:51,090 target didn't have a problem in the area they didn't want 3951 03:03:51,090 --> 03:03:52,399 to share a boundary with 3952 03:03:52,399 --> 03:03:56,079 it of any kind a roadways not a boundary line okay 3953 03:03:56,079 --> 03:04:00,000 it's a separate understood understood now it's it's 3954 03:04:00,000 --> 03:04:01,280 currently zoned as in our 3955 03:04:01,280 --> 03:04:05,239 two correct yes now it's done out of just you know Mr. R 3956 03:04:05,239 --> 03:04:06,079 ager's Mr. Rager's 3957 03:04:06,079 --> 03:04:08,440 charity for the first element school I understand that yeah 3958 03:04:08,440 --> 03:04:09,559 so if the if the 3959 03:04:09,559 --> 03:04:12,309 applicant decided to scrap this project and move forward 3960 03:04:12,309 --> 03:04:13,360 with let's say out of 3961 03:04:13,360 --> 03:04:16,870 88 at eight point seven acres so there's about 35 or so 3962 03:04:16,870 --> 03:04:18,040 that's actually usable 3963 03:04:18,040 --> 03:04:20,739 land and want to scrap it and build you know in our two 3964 03:04:20,739 --> 03:04:21,959 standards so they can 3965 03:04:21,959 --> 03:04:26,940 build what 70 homes would you guys be on board for a single 3966 03:04:26,940 --> 03:04:27,559 -family development 3967 03:04:27,559 --> 03:04:30,610 out there too no it's what it's zoned right now it's it's 3968 03:04:30,610 --> 03:04:33,280 fine to go right is 3969 03:04:33,280 --> 03:04:36,159 that what in our two is that's what an R2 is last time 3970 03:04:36,159 --> 03:04:37,520 unchecked well if they 3971 03:04:37,520 --> 03:04:41,950 have it by right then that's the way it is I wouldn't like 3972 03:04:41,950 --> 03:04:43,159 it I wouldn't 3973 03:04:43,159 --> 03:04:46,889 participate in any kind of approval process but and I think 3974 03:04:46,889 --> 03:04:47,879 the city would 3975 03:04:47,879 --> 03:04:54,000 make a mistake in it so it's a choice this city has and I'm 3976 03:04:54,000 --> 03:04:54,600 not sure this 3977 03:04:54,600 --> 03:04:57,500 would be the first one if it was but I don't think it 3978 03:04:57,500 --> 03:04:59,559 belongs there I don't I 3979 03:04:59,559 --> 03:05:01,870 certainly think we need single-family homes and I 3980 03:05:01,870 --> 03:05:03,040 appreciate things like 3981 03:05:03,040 --> 03:05:06,930 drill sites and homes and other things that in fact we we 3982 03:05:06,930 --> 03:05:08,440 've participated in 3983 03:05:08,440 --> 03:05:11,319 buying some back to make residential property work sure 3984 03:05:11,319 --> 03:05:12,200 because we made some 3985 03:05:12,200 --> 03:05:15,200 mistakes I think the point I'm trying to try to make there 3986 03:05:15,200 --> 03:05:16,200 mr. Baker's I think 3987 03:05:16,200 --> 03:05:19,209 that that a change in the zoning probably would make more 3988 03:05:19,209 --> 03:05:20,600 sense here than 3989 03:05:20,600 --> 03:05:23,629 then it would just leaving as is just because I could live 3990 03:05:23,629 --> 03:05:24,600 with a corporate 3991 03:05:24,600 --> 03:05:27,540 campus if you're gonna rezone it for corporate campus but 3992 03:05:27,540 --> 03:05:28,520 not the residential 3993 03:05:28,520 --> 03:05:30,389 component I don't see what that has to do with the 3994 03:05:30,389 --> 03:05:31,680 corporate campus understood 3995 03:05:31,680 --> 03:05:36,360 so the corporate campus is not in my opinion incompatible 3996 03:05:36,360 --> 03:05:38,760 it's it's not what I 3997 03:05:38,760 --> 03:05:42,110 would not but but that's okay what I think doesn't need but 3998 03:05:42,110 --> 03:05:43,040 it sure it will 3999 03:05:43,040 --> 03:05:45,610 work it's just like the United States Treasury Reserve 4000 03:05:45,610 --> 03:05:46,600 Center that's not 4001 03:05:46,600 --> 03:05:49,920 technically industrial but if you know what's going on out 4002 03:05:49,920 --> 03:05:51,200 there it works 4003 03:05:51,200 --> 03:05:54,829 police have a shooting range out there I'm working with 4004 03:05:54,829 --> 03:05:56,159 them to help expand 4005 03:05:56,159 --> 03:06:01,120 that it's not industrial but it works I think the corporate 4006 03:06:01,120 --> 03:06:03,120 campus idea opposed 4007 03:06:03,120 --> 03:06:06,020 to that I am opposed to the residential nothing I agree 4008 03:06:06,020 --> 03:06:07,159 with you partially there 4009 03:06:07,159 --> 03:06:09,979 that possibly and this is still in the zoning stages here 4010 03:06:09,979 --> 03:06:10,600 we're not in 4011 03:06:10,600 --> 03:06:14,799 plenary platter slight plan the the the I think the idea 4012 03:06:14,799 --> 03:06:15,799 that I would I would 4013 03:06:15,799 --> 03:06:18,600 want to communicate to the applicant would be to flip it 4014 03:06:18,600 --> 03:06:19,360 that if the 4015 03:06:19,360 --> 03:06:23,790 residential is closer closer to that 35 380 intersection 4016 03:06:23,790 --> 03:06:25,280 there it's closer to 4017 03:06:25,280 --> 03:06:28,790 the sites as you've already mentioned or northern tool is 4018 03:06:28,790 --> 03:06:30,239 and it's further away 4019 03:06:30,239 --> 03:06:32,360 from the industrial and it's all floodplain on the other 4020 03:06:32,360 --> 03:06:33,559 side of that that 4021 03:06:33,559 --> 03:06:36,850 it's not going to be developed so it seems like that would 4022 03:06:36,850 --> 03:06:37,719 be more amenable 4023 03:06:37,719 --> 03:06:39,500 but I think that's all I had for now I actually had a 4024 03:06:39,500 --> 03:06:40,200 question for the 4025 03:06:40,200 --> 03:06:43,409 applicant okay quick quick there's two things you mentioned 4026 03:06:43,409 --> 03:06:43,840 that you were going 4027 03:06:43,840 --> 03:06:48,790 to address the the southwest corner the southwest corner 4028 03:06:48,790 --> 03:06:49,840 you what was going to 4029 03:06:49,840 --> 03:06:52,899 happen oh in regards the comment or the question in work 4030 03:06:52,899 --> 03:06:54,760 session was since it's 4031 03:06:54,760 --> 03:06:56,989 a remaining piece I'm not sure how many acres it is I think 4032 03:06:56,989 --> 03:06:57,680 half of its in the 4033 03:06:57,680 --> 03:07:00,690 floodplain but since it's a remaining piece of NR to zoning 4034 03:07:00,690 --> 03:07:01,559 have we reached 4035 03:07:01,559 --> 03:07:04,790 out to that the neighbor in order to be brought into this 4036 03:07:04,790 --> 03:07:06,520 zoning correct and we 4037 03:07:06,520 --> 03:07:09,239 haven't had that that type of discussion with mr. Baker 4038 03:07:09,239 --> 03:07:11,520 yeah okay and have you 4039 03:07:11,520 --> 03:07:14,469 had the same as similar assessment of the pond that mr. 4040 03:07:14,469 --> 03:07:15,760 Baker's given us and 4041 03:07:15,760 --> 03:07:18,639 that it's and and what you guys would probably have to do 4042 03:07:18,639 --> 03:07:19,760 to actually make that 4043 03:07:19,760 --> 03:07:23,370 well my engineers have looked at it and we drove out there 4044 03:07:23,370 --> 03:07:24,479 there's I mean it 4045 03:07:24,479 --> 03:07:27,090 does the pond the water does release over here on this east 4046 03:07:27,090 --> 03:07:27,879 side and it goes 4047 03:07:27,879 --> 03:07:31,090 under the gas well road and under just a little metal cul 4048 03:07:31,090 --> 03:07:32,420 vert okay so it does 4049 03:07:32,420 --> 03:07:36,049 really confine how it's leaving the pond and if it wasn't 4050 03:07:36,049 --> 03:07:37,440 engineered when the 4051 03:07:37,440 --> 03:07:40,020 school came in they just someone else just did it you know 4052 03:07:40,020 --> 03:07:41,200 we have to we have 4053 03:07:41,200 --> 03:07:44,959 as an engineers we sign our name on these documents saying 4054 03:07:44,959 --> 03:07:45,840 that we you know 4055 03:07:45,840 --> 03:07:48,350 that we design in accordance with state law we have to make 4056 03:07:48,350 --> 03:07:49,319 sure that it will be 4057 03:07:49,319 --> 03:07:51,760 engineered and corrected so you will you're willing to make 4058 03:07:51,760 --> 03:07:52,239 that correction 4059 03:07:52,239 --> 03:07:54,540 yes I do the work that's needed for okay yes that's all I 4060 03:07:54,540 --> 03:07:57,680 have thank you ma'am 4061 03:07:59,479 --> 03:08:04,440 commissioner Sanchez just to clarify that ten acres isn't 4062 03:08:04,440 --> 03:08:05,559 it it was part of 4063 03:08:05,559 --> 03:08:08,440 the 50 we bought back it's the only part that isn't in the 4064 03:08:08,440 --> 03:08:09,760 floodplain but it's 4065 03:08:09,760 --> 03:08:13,520 surrounded by flesh here so it's not in the floodplain yes 4066 03:08:13,520 --> 03:08:15,040 sir well I just I 4067 03:08:15,040 --> 03:08:19,989 wanted to the applicant I just I guess I just want to 4068 03:08:19,989 --> 03:08:21,639 address upon that big 4069 03:08:21,639 --> 03:08:25,729 ten acres it's just nobody can just go out there and make a 4070 03:08:25,729 --> 03:08:27,000 hole in the ground 4071 03:08:27,000 --> 03:08:30,379 it has to be engineered by and probably the conservation 4072 03:08:30,379 --> 03:08:31,799 service you know built 4073 03:08:31,799 --> 03:08:36,430 a lot of these points back in you know the 50 60 70s so I 4074 03:08:36,430 --> 03:08:38,120 would think that if 4075 03:08:38,120 --> 03:08:40,459 you probably look at the history that was probably built by 4076 03:08:40,459 --> 03:08:40,879 the soil 4077 03:08:40,879 --> 03:08:46,110 conservation service do you believe you think it was that 4078 03:08:46,110 --> 03:08:49,120 pond yeah no it wasn't 4079 03:08:49,120 --> 03:08:51,209 built by the soil conservation service I personally think 4080 03:08:51,209 --> 03:08:52,360 the headmaster went and 4081 03:08:52,360 --> 03:08:55,329 got five buddies and granted a bucket a backhoe and they 4082 03:08:55,329 --> 03:08:56,799 went and dug it okay 4083 03:08:56,799 --> 03:08:59,680 that's how I think it came about I'm just thinking ponds 4084 03:08:59,680 --> 03:09:01,360 that big or lake 4085 03:09:01,360 --> 03:09:03,819 it's almost the size of a lake he says ten acres it's 4086 03:09:03,819 --> 03:09:05,200 pretty good size so you 4087 03:09:05,200 --> 03:09:08,260 just can't do it and and now that you mentioned about the 4088 03:09:08,260 --> 03:09:09,440 side spiel I know 4089 03:09:09,440 --> 03:09:14,010 the soil conservation service when they build ponds that's 4090 03:09:14,010 --> 03:09:14,959 what that's where 4091 03:09:14,959 --> 03:09:18,040 their spillway would be they build the dam they wouldn't 4092 03:09:18,040 --> 03:09:19,000 put a drain in the 4093 03:09:19,000 --> 03:09:21,489 front they would put a drain on the side so it would drain 4094 03:09:21,489 --> 03:09:22,600 off the side that's 4095 03:09:22,600 --> 03:09:24,829 what makes me think the soil conservation might have might 4096 03:09:24,829 --> 03:09:25,159 have built 4097 03:09:25,159 --> 03:09:27,909 that you may look with soil conservation service and see if 4098 03:09:27,909 --> 03:09:28,920 they have plans on 4099 03:09:28,920 --> 03:09:31,610 that and see what they did I bet I bet they might they 4100 03:09:31,610 --> 03:09:32,680 might have been the ones 4101 03:09:32,680 --> 03:09:35,559 that built that it was built by selling school back when 4102 03:09:35,559 --> 03:09:36,360 they first opened the 4103 03:09:36,360 --> 03:09:39,260 school back in the early 60s but they might they might have 4104 03:09:39,260 --> 03:09:41,639 been so they 4105 03:09:41,639 --> 03:09:46,180 would sponsor by them but the actual contractors and and 4106 03:09:46,180 --> 03:09:47,159 the plans were might 4107 03:09:47,159 --> 03:09:49,799 have been might have been built by the so might have been 4108 03:09:49,799 --> 03:09:50,840 developed by the soil 4109 03:09:50,840 --> 03:09:53,959 conservation service maybe it was I wouldn't know because I 4110 03:09:53,959 --> 03:09:54,719 wasn't here then 4111 03:09:54,719 --> 03:09:59,719 but but the water doesn't the water does come in where it 4112 03:09:59,719 --> 03:10:01,239 goes out right at the 4113 03:10:01,239 --> 03:10:04,959 east end it's there's no spillway on it my understanding 4114 03:10:04,959 --> 03:10:06,120 and I've seen it yeah 4115 03:10:06,120 --> 03:10:08,750 well I'll say some of the ponds that we saw that I've seen 4116 03:10:08,750 --> 03:10:09,760 them build they 4117 03:10:09,760 --> 03:10:13,649 actually spill off to the side and and and what it that 4118 03:10:13,649 --> 03:10:15,319 pond probably was built 4119 03:10:15,319 --> 03:10:18,440 it to because there's probably a lot of water running off 4120 03:10:18,440 --> 03:10:20,879 that I appreciate you 4121 03:10:20,879 --> 03:10:23,440 bringing this up we're gonna do zoning okay we'll have to 4122 03:10:23,440 --> 03:10:24,319 come back I appreciate 4123 03:10:24,319 --> 03:10:27,110 you bringing that up and I've got another question 4124 03:10:27,110 --> 03:10:28,920 Commissioner Ellis thank you 4125 03:10:28,920 --> 03:10:33,200 sure this is for mr. Baker mr. Baker thanks for sharing 4126 03:10:33,200 --> 03:10:33,920 your thoughts and 4127 03:10:33,920 --> 03:10:37,719 helping us try to understand your opposition you mentioned 4128 03:10:37,719 --> 03:10:38,559 the word harm 4129 03:10:38,559 --> 03:10:42,319 in in one of your statements this causing harm could you 4130 03:10:42,319 --> 03:10:43,239 elaborate on what 4131 03:10:43,239 --> 03:10:49,000 you mean by that statement well the the land around it is 4132 03:10:49,000 --> 03:10:50,440 we own is close to 4133 03:10:50,440 --> 03:10:57,739 130 acres and if if it's rezoned for now the the 4134 03:10:57,739 --> 03:10:59,479 residential is that the really 4135 03:10:59,479 --> 03:11:04,149 the part that bothers me worries me then if we can't locate 4136 03:11:04,149 --> 03:11:06,079 industrial users next 4137 03:11:06,079 --> 03:11:09,159 to that because that's a problem then what do we do with it 4138 03:11:09,159 --> 03:11:10,239 what are we forced 4139 03:11:10,239 --> 03:11:14,840 to do with it I hope that doesn't happen I mean we want to 4140 03:11:14,840 --> 03:11:15,840 market it and we are 4141 03:11:15,840 --> 03:11:22,000 for industrial use that's what the city has got it under 4142 03:11:22,000 --> 03:11:23,159 their 2030 plan we've 4143 03:11:23,159 --> 03:11:26,930 never objected to that that whole corridor in there has 4144 03:11:26,930 --> 03:11:28,639 been that way for 4145 03:11:28,639 --> 03:11:33,590 for a long time so I don't think anybody anticipated 4146 03:11:33,590 --> 03:11:35,639 selling school going away 4147 03:11:35,639 --> 03:11:42,239 but I don't want to I don't want to we don't want to thwart 4148 03:11:42,239 --> 03:11:42,920 I mean I don't want 4149 03:11:42,920 --> 03:11:45,969 to stand in the way of the guys development if it works and 4150 03:11:45,969 --> 03:11:46,559 it's good 4151 03:11:46,559 --> 03:11:50,719 for the city and it makes sense and it doesn't do any harm 4152 03:11:50,719 --> 03:11:51,600 now and the harm 4153 03:11:51,600 --> 03:11:54,799 there is would be created if something happens and there's 4154 03:11:54,799 --> 03:11:55,920 damage collateral 4155 03:11:55,920 --> 03:12:00,479 damage if we if we can't get the topography or whatever we 4156 03:12:00,479 --> 03:12:01,600 need to do in 4157 03:12:01,600 --> 03:12:06,350 there because of this then what then that's land that never 4158 03:12:06,350 --> 03:12:07,520 goes on the tax 4159 03:12:07,520 --> 03:12:13,280 rolls it's in ag use now and so I'm not I'm not opposed to 4160 03:12:13,280 --> 03:12:14,520 his development I'm 4161 03:12:14,520 --> 03:12:17,940 opposed to anything that's gonna interfere with the 4162 03:12:17,940 --> 03:12:19,200 economic activity 4163 03:12:19,200 --> 03:12:22,079 that's that's been in plans for a long time unless there's 4164 03:12:22,079 --> 03:12:22,719 some compelling 4165 03:12:22,719 --> 03:12:25,909 reason I mean if there's a compelling reason then yeah we 4166 03:12:25,909 --> 03:12:26,799 have to look at it 4167 03:12:26,799 --> 03:12:29,760 but I don't I don't think there is here the corporate 4168 03:12:29,760 --> 03:12:31,040 campus I think works I 4169 03:12:31,040 --> 03:12:35,659 think the retail and the restaurants along University is 4170 03:12:35,659 --> 03:12:37,200 fine I think that 4171 03:12:37,200 --> 03:12:39,559 would work whether it works economically is another 4172 03:12:39,559 --> 03:12:40,760 question but that's not an 4173 03:12:40,760 --> 03:12:43,000 issue here we're not we're talking about zoning I think 4174 03:12:43,000 --> 03:12:44,120 that's established and 4175 03:12:44,120 --> 03:12:47,100 should be allowed there and and the corporate campus thing 4176 03:12:47,100 --> 03:12:48,239 would probably be 4177 03:12:48,239 --> 03:12:50,889 fine the issue is I mean we are dealing with zoning and our 4178 03:12:50,889 --> 03:12:51,719 two does not make 4179 03:12:51,719 --> 03:12:53,969 any sense for this piece of property no it doesn't and I 4180 03:12:53,969 --> 03:12:54,959 agree with that and the 4181 03:12:54,959 --> 03:12:59,530 request is our CCD which does make sense for this piece of 4182 03:12:59,530 --> 03:13:01,120 property it does I 4183 03:13:01,120 --> 03:13:04,850 understand what you're saying and and and I voted against 4184 03:13:04,850 --> 03:13:06,079 your zoning request 4185 03:13:06,079 --> 03:13:10,389 because your request was changing it that it was already z 4186 03:13:10,389 --> 03:13:12,200 oned industrial and 4187 03:13:12,200 --> 03:13:15,129 this particular request that you were making was putting 4188 03:13:15,129 --> 03:13:15,879 this piece of 4189 03:13:15,879 --> 03:13:18,110 property in the middle of all of that industrial which to 4190 03:13:18,110 --> 03:13:18,680 me did not make 4191 03:13:18,680 --> 03:13:23,799 sense this it's NR to now that makes no sense our CCD does 4192 03:13:23,799 --> 03:13:25,479 and especially I know 4193 03:13:25,479 --> 03:13:28,629 you're talking about no major road buffer or anything but I 4194 03:13:28,629 --> 03:13:29,399 mean the fact 4195 03:13:29,399 --> 03:13:33,920 that it's right there off of 380 and would be developed 4196 03:13:33,920 --> 03:13:34,760 however it's going to 4197 03:13:34,760 --> 03:13:39,190 be developed within our CCD and in its land uses makes 4198 03:13:39,190 --> 03:13:41,200 sense and I don't I 4199 03:13:41,200 --> 03:13:44,559 don't believe it harms your ability to continue to market 4200 03:13:44,559 --> 03:13:45,760 your land and I have 4201 03:13:45,760 --> 03:13:49,190 no doubt that you'll get creative if you find that you can 4202 03:13:49,190 --> 03:13:50,399 't market it a certain 4203 03:13:50,399 --> 03:13:52,989 way so you'll give us the same zoning on the rest of our 4204 03:13:52,989 --> 03:13:55,799 land out there I would 4205 03:13:55,799 --> 03:13:59,399 take a zoning change one at a time as I always do and give 4206 03:13:59,399 --> 03:14:01,639 it my complete well I 4207 03:14:01,639 --> 03:14:05,000 think there was some compelling reasons to differentiate 4208 03:14:05,000 --> 03:14:06,680 that from the zoning 4209 03:14:06,680 --> 03:14:10,760 change that you disagreed with which I understand and and 4210 03:14:10,760 --> 03:14:14,200 as I told the mayor if 4211 03:14:14,200 --> 03:14:18,219 that land looked and looked like Peterbilt and the land 4212 03:14:18,219 --> 03:14:19,440 that Peterbilt 4213 03:14:19,440 --> 03:14:23,889 owns and Tetra Pak and WNCO and United States cold storage 4214 03:14:23,889 --> 03:14:24,360 we wouldn't have 4215 03:14:24,360 --> 03:14:26,870 been having that discussion I would have never come before 4216 03:14:26,870 --> 03:14:29,760 you because we saw it 4217 03:14:29,760 --> 03:14:33,500 as industrial but we couldn't interest anybody in it so if 4218 03:14:33,500 --> 03:14:34,760 it sits there and 4219 03:14:34,760 --> 03:14:37,680 it's not going to be good to us or the city or anybody 4220 03:14:37,680 --> 03:14:39,239 economically then maybe 4221 03:14:39,239 --> 03:14:41,799 you need to rethink it we thought there was some different 4222 03:14:41,799 --> 03:14:42,840 fact patterns there 4223 03:14:42,840 --> 03:14:47,479 and that's why if if I'm wrong about this then I'm wrong I 4224 03:14:47,479 --> 03:14:49,399 'm not sure I've 4225 03:14:49,399 --> 03:14:54,540 talked to my engineers and I'm not opposed I don't know 4226 03:14:54,540 --> 03:14:56,319 what all's in that 4227 03:14:56,319 --> 03:14:59,280 zoning I'm not opposed to like I said the corporate campus 4228 03:14:59,280 --> 03:15:00,159 or the retail in 4229 03:15:00,159 --> 03:15:05,280 the right place I just think the housing is in this 4230 03:15:05,280 --> 03:15:06,879 particular stuck in the middle 4231 03:15:06,879 --> 03:15:11,309 of it is a mistake but that's my opinion I don't want to 4232 03:15:11,309 --> 03:15:13,200 hurt the city overall I 4233 03:15:13,200 --> 03:15:15,799 want to do what's good and best for the city and if that's 4234 03:15:15,799 --> 03:15:16,680 what you think is 4235 03:15:16,680 --> 03:15:20,770 right then that's the way it should be I have a final 4236 03:15:20,770 --> 03:15:22,840 question for you and this 4237 03:15:22,840 --> 03:15:25,840 will be the last one at least what's on the board I know 4238 03:15:25,840 --> 03:15:27,280 you're in the in the 4239 03:15:27,280 --> 03:15:30,959 development business and land management business I guess a 4240 03:15:30,959 --> 03:15:33,920 question to me is to 4241 03:15:33,920 --> 03:15:39,879 to pose to you you have some valid concerns but I don't 4242 03:15:39,879 --> 03:15:42,000 understand with 4243 03:15:42,000 --> 03:15:44,950 your background and what you do is why there hasn't been a 4244 03:15:44,950 --> 03:15:46,120 discussion between 4245 03:15:46,120 --> 03:15:49,729 you and the applicant to go talk about these things and 4246 03:15:49,729 --> 03:15:50,840 work all this out 4247 03:15:50,840 --> 03:15:54,829 behind the scenes in private and come to us instead of the 4248 03:15:54,829 --> 03:15:56,680 public back and forth 4249 03:15:56,680 --> 03:16:00,309 that's been delayed I don't remember how many times to have 4250 03:16:00,309 --> 03:16:01,159 conversations we were 4251 03:16:01,159 --> 03:16:04,680 told to address these things and yet there's talk with 4252 03:16:04,680 --> 03:16:06,000 engineers this morning 4253 03:16:06,000 --> 03:16:09,170 and talk tonight and it seems to me that as big a deal as 4254 03:16:09,170 --> 03:16:10,360 this is and as big a 4255 03:16:10,360 --> 03:16:12,590 deal as the properties are around you the two you guys 4256 03:16:12,590 --> 03:16:13,440 would have got together 4257 03:16:13,440 --> 03:16:17,059 and had several meetings and said how do we find something 4258 03:16:17,059 --> 03:16:18,239 that works for all 4259 03:16:18,239 --> 03:16:22,219 parties and come to this body with some type of a 4260 03:16:22,219 --> 03:16:24,639 compromise or we've worked 4261 03:16:24,639 --> 03:16:28,059 this out we'd like to see the corporate campus on the West 4262 03:16:28,059 --> 03:16:29,479 and the multifamily 4263 03:16:29,479 --> 03:16:33,559 on the East and now we support it those guys gave something 4264 03:16:33,559 --> 03:16:34,559 and we worked it out 4265 03:16:34,559 --> 03:16:38,239 and came here so can you answer that well I'll try my best 4266 03:16:38,239 --> 03:16:39,600 chairman their 4267 03:16:39,600 --> 03:16:42,809 engineer just contacted me a day ago and I just returned 4268 03:16:42,809 --> 03:16:44,959 the call today so I've 4269 03:16:44,959 --> 03:16:48,639 been like many of you busy and I just took a day or two 4270 03:16:48,639 --> 03:16:50,120 before I got back to 4271 03:16:50,120 --> 03:16:53,500 them but I just got contacted with any concerns they have 4272 03:16:53,500 --> 03:16:54,200 and they wanted to 4273 03:16:54,200 --> 03:16:59,920 know how I felt well prior to this all I got was the zoning 4274 03:16:59,920 --> 03:17:00,879 change notice 4275 03:17:00,879 --> 03:17:03,670 because we own the adjacent property I didn't know what 4276 03:17:03,670 --> 03:17:05,040 they were going after I 4277 03:17:05,040 --> 03:17:08,559 didn't know I didn't look up the zoning change I didn't 4278 03:17:08,559 --> 03:17:09,760 know all what was 4279 03:17:09,760 --> 03:17:13,280 intended so I thought I did what any reasonable person 4280 03:17:13,280 --> 03:17:14,040 would do I just 4281 03:17:14,040 --> 03:17:16,920 protested saying all right this will get to the bottom of 4282 03:17:16,920 --> 03:17:17,799 it rather than 4283 03:17:17,799 --> 03:17:21,680 willy-nilly just say no big deal so if you look at my 4284 03:17:21,680 --> 03:17:23,399 protest it was blank I 4285 03:17:23,399 --> 03:17:26,549 had nothing to offer because I didn't know what was going 4286 03:17:26,549 --> 03:17:28,020 on so I that's why 4287 03:17:28,020 --> 03:17:32,299 I objected then subsequent to that the applicant did show 4288 03:17:32,299 --> 03:17:33,719 me a concept plan and 4289 03:17:33,719 --> 03:17:39,639 it showed a lot of multifamily so that's why I protested so 4290 03:17:39,639 --> 03:17:41,319 I'm not inherently 4291 03:17:41,319 --> 03:17:44,950 opposed to that I don't think the factors are in place that 4292 03:17:44,950 --> 03:17:46,159 separate this 4293 03:17:46,159 --> 03:17:50,659 from what we did on the other part of the east side of the 4294 03:17:50,659 --> 03:17:51,879 property so if 4295 03:17:51,879 --> 03:17:54,540 those facts existed I wouldn't be here tonight talking to 4296 03:17:54,540 --> 03:17:55,399 you because if they 4297 03:17:55,399 --> 03:17:58,440 were the same it wouldn't it would be the same result in my 4298 03:17:58,440 --> 03:18:00,120 opinion okay well 4299 03:18:00,120 --> 03:18:02,559 let me pose another question and I appreciate your answer 4300 03:18:02,559 --> 03:18:04,360 yes this board 4301 03:18:04,360 --> 03:18:07,409 has purview and we do zoning cases to do overlays and 4302 03:18:07,409 --> 03:18:08,840 restrict uses and things 4303 03:18:08,840 --> 03:18:12,760 and zoning and this has been delayed a number of times and 4304 03:18:12,760 --> 03:18:14,600 I understand your 4305 03:18:14,600 --> 03:18:17,719 concern and I don't know if there's a possibility for you 4306 03:18:17,719 --> 03:18:18,920 and the applicant to 4307 03:18:18,920 --> 03:18:22,209 ask for a continuance on this for two weeks or 30 days to 4308 03:18:22,209 --> 03:18:23,479 go get together so 4309 03:18:23,479 --> 03:18:26,299 you know what if you guys will put the corporate campus on 4310 03:18:26,299 --> 03:18:27,520 the west side you 4311 03:18:27,520 --> 03:18:31,079 know what I'm golden with the multifamily on the east side 4312 03:18:31,079 --> 03:18:31,399 it comes 4313 03:18:31,399 --> 03:18:34,909 back to us under a zoning with an overlay and restrictions 4314 03:18:34,909 --> 03:18:35,680 on it your 4315 03:18:35,680 --> 03:18:38,329 properties protected they have some surety of what they're 4316 03:18:38,329 --> 03:18:39,040 gonna do you guys 4317 03:18:39,040 --> 03:18:41,940 work all this out and we can go you know what private 4318 03:18:41,940 --> 03:18:42,879 individuals got together 4319 03:18:42,879 --> 03:18:46,399 work this out you guys can agree with it it meets the city 4320 03:18:46,399 --> 03:18:47,700 code who are we to say 4321 03:18:47,700 --> 03:18:52,950 no I wouldn't say no that chairman I I would contact our 4322 03:18:52,950 --> 03:18:54,120 engineers Kim Lee Horn 4323 03:18:54,120 --> 03:18:57,920 and ask them what's the best way for us to deal with this 4324 03:18:57,920 --> 03:18:59,280 and ask them for their 4325 03:18:59,280 --> 03:19:03,219 advice and consultation I haven't I haven't weighed in I 4326 03:19:03,219 --> 03:19:03,920 know one's weighed 4327 03:19:03,920 --> 03:19:07,600 in with me on this you know I'm not trying to put words in 4328 03:19:07,600 --> 03:19:08,159 your mouth I was 4329 03:19:08,159 --> 03:19:11,409 just looking at the record we've had it I think it's been 4330 03:19:11,409 --> 03:19:12,639 continued two or three 4331 03:19:12,639 --> 03:19:16,059 times before I wasn't aware of that mr. chairman I don't 4332 03:19:16,059 --> 03:19:16,719 know any of the 4333 03:19:16,719 --> 03:19:20,399 details but I can tell you this if the if the consultants 4334 03:19:20,399 --> 03:19:21,639 told me this is the 4335 03:19:21,639 --> 03:19:24,440 best way this will work I'm not gonna stand in the way of 4336 03:19:24,440 --> 03:19:25,920 that I don't want to 4337 03:19:25,920 --> 03:19:28,319 stand in the way of his development or anybody else's but 4338 03:19:28,319 --> 03:19:29,479 it needs to make sense 4339 03:19:29,479 --> 03:19:32,219 it doesn't need to be just carving out a hole out of the 4340 03:19:32,219 --> 03:19:33,520 middle of the piece and 4341 03:19:33,520 --> 03:19:37,719 saying this will work you know what that's what I'm worried 4342 03:19:37,719 --> 03:19:38,680 about sure so you 4343 03:19:38,680 --> 03:19:45,239 know if if it if I wish no harm on anyone I don't I'm no 4344 03:19:45,239 --> 03:19:46,159 expert on all the 4345 03:19:46,159 --> 03:19:49,989 zoning issues but I want at the end of the day yes do I 4346 03:19:49,989 --> 03:19:51,239 want what's good for us 4347 03:19:51,239 --> 03:19:54,850 you bet I do that's what I'm paid to do but I also as a 4348 03:19:54,850 --> 03:19:56,639 coal already that I need 4349 03:19:56,639 --> 03:19:59,129 to also worry about what's in the best interest of this 4350 03:19:59,129 --> 03:20:00,319 city and everybody else 4351 03:20:00,319 --> 03:20:03,340 I don't want to cause any harm to my neighbors or anybody 4352 03:20:03,340 --> 03:20:09,379 else but if if if I 4353 03:20:09,379 --> 03:20:14,309 just don't do anything and in 10 acres screws up 150 that I 4354 03:20:14,309 --> 03:20:15,600 'm a sorry person 4355 03:20:15,600 --> 03:20:19,129 for not paying attention and that's what I worry about I'm 4356 03:20:19,129 --> 03:20:21,479 honestly yes I worry 4357 03:20:21,479 --> 03:20:24,260 about what I'm supposed to worry about but I also have a 4358 03:20:24,260 --> 03:20:25,120 bigger need or a 4359 03:20:25,120 --> 03:20:27,819 bigger requirement is to make sure it works good for this 4360 03:20:27,819 --> 03:20:28,840 city because if the 4361 03:20:28,840 --> 03:20:32,040 city screwed then we're all screwed understand so we 4362 03:20:32,040 --> 03:20:32,680 understand that 4363 03:20:32,680 --> 03:20:36,030 completely sitting on this Commission appreciate very much 4364 03:20:36,030 --> 03:20:36,879 the time that you 4365 03:20:36,879 --> 03:20:40,489 come before us and all the answers and patience that you've 4366 03:20:40,489 --> 03:20:41,280 given to answer 4367 03:20:41,280 --> 03:20:45,440 Commission I've got a final question for the applicant 4368 03:20:45,440 --> 03:20:49,239 thank you sir yes sir 4369 03:20:49,239 --> 03:20:52,799 y'all continued this a number of times and I think we just 4370 03:20:52,799 --> 03:20:53,879 had some conversations 4371 03:20:53,879 --> 03:20:56,600 maybe there's an opportunity to address all the concerns 4372 03:20:56,600 --> 03:20:58,000 and come back before us 4373 03:20:58,000 --> 03:21:02,950 with a hopefully a consensus that if y'all will do 4374 03:21:02,950 --> 03:21:05,319 corporate over here and 4375 03:21:05,319 --> 03:21:09,399 multifamily over here that their interest is protected 4376 03:21:09,399 --> 03:21:10,120 there are large 4377 03:21:10,120 --> 03:21:12,719 stakeholder in the city and I understand the position that 4378 03:21:12,719 --> 03:21:14,600 they're in with the 4379 03:21:14,600 --> 03:21:17,389 chairdableness of Selwyn and how that's gone south and all 4380 03:21:17,389 --> 03:21:18,440 those types of things 4381 03:21:18,440 --> 03:21:21,969 is there some time crunch that you're under that gosh we 4382 03:21:21,969 --> 03:21:23,000 really need to have 4383 03:21:23,000 --> 03:21:27,579 this done the next two weeks or can this be come back in a 4384 03:21:27,579 --> 03:21:28,840 couple weeks or 30 4385 03:21:28,840 --> 03:21:31,290 days with hopefully a consensus and looks like we're gonna 4386 03:21:31,290 --> 03:21:32,040 get it looks like 4387 03:21:32,040 --> 03:21:36,879 my yes I think he's gonna get a card but yeah you're right 4388 03:21:36,879 --> 03:21:38,799 we have and with all 4389 03:21:38,799 --> 03:21:41,680 due respect Phil and the razor family are the most impacted 4390 03:21:41,680 --> 03:21:42,319 by what we do 4391 03:21:42,319 --> 03:21:46,770 absolutely and so we definitely we want to incorporate what 4392 03:21:46,770 --> 03:21:47,639 concerns that they 4393 03:21:47,639 --> 03:21:50,360 have and try to address them in the plan as much as we can 4394 03:21:50,360 --> 03:21:52,079 but we you know our 4395 03:21:52,079 --> 03:21:55,440 thought was that they are significantly buffered by the 4396 03:21:55,440 --> 03:21:56,920 natural features so the 4397 03:21:56,920 --> 03:22:00,639 impact is minimal if there's a way that we could integrate 4398 03:22:00,639 --> 03:22:01,920 our layout and our 4399 03:22:01,920 --> 03:22:04,549 design with theirs and I think the concept plan that he's 4400 03:22:04,549 --> 03:22:05,360 referring to is 4401 03:22:05,360 --> 03:22:09,600 one way before I got involved so it's it's it's not the one 4402 03:22:09,600 --> 03:22:10,639 that we're working 4403 03:22:10,639 --> 03:22:15,280 on right now I think ever it wants to say something so let 4404 03:22:15,280 --> 03:22:15,799 me let him talk 4405 03:22:15,799 --> 03:22:18,540 before I think we may have another card wishing to speak on 4406 03:22:18,540 --> 03:22:21,719 this item so public 4407 03:22:21,719 --> 03:22:24,370 hearing is anybody here that would like to speak on this 4408 03:22:24,370 --> 03:22:25,920 item please come 4409 03:22:25,920 --> 03:22:30,079 forward at this time give us your name and address ever at 4410 03:22:30,079 --> 03:22:32,159 Newland 84 85 Jim 4411 03:22:32,159 --> 03:22:37,879 Crystal Road Denton Texas 76 207 pardon for dress I came 4412 03:22:37,879 --> 03:22:38,799 from baseball practice 4413 03:22:38,799 --> 03:22:42,770 at Denton Calvary which all approved at SUP for so we'll 4414 03:22:42,770 --> 03:22:43,760 have baseball practice 4415 03:22:43,760 --> 03:22:47,549 indoors tonight not with that 30 degrees outside so thank 4416 03:22:47,549 --> 03:22:49,319 you for that we've 4417 03:22:49,319 --> 03:22:55,479 tried I love your idea we've tried my seller my client Fred 4418 03:22:55,479 --> 03:22:57,479 Nichols who is in 4419 03:22:57,479 --> 03:23:01,260 the crowd has talked to Phil about this apparently mr. 4420 03:23:01,260 --> 03:23:03,040 Baker didn't recall that 4421 03:23:03,040 --> 03:23:07,239 there's been boy smells left and we have hit a stonewall 4422 03:23:07,239 --> 03:23:08,840 every time that we've 4423 03:23:08,840 --> 03:23:13,000 tried so I love your idea of a continuance but I'm afraid 4424 03:23:13,000 --> 03:23:13,879 we'd just be 4425 03:23:13,879 --> 03:23:17,250 reinventing the wheel and we'd be back on the same hamster 4426 03:23:17,250 --> 03:23:18,239 wheel of call no 4427 03:23:18,239 --> 03:23:24,309 return call no return call no return okay well since we can 4428 03:23:24,309 --> 03:23:25,639 't do what we like 4429 03:23:25,639 --> 03:23:27,889 to do in these situations is let the parties that are 4430 03:23:27,889 --> 03:23:29,000 affected go and work it 4431 03:23:29,000 --> 03:23:31,690 out and come back to us and go hey we've come to an 4432 03:23:31,690 --> 03:23:32,920 agreement what do you guys 4433 03:23:32,920 --> 03:23:38,399 say it makes it really easy on us is there a concern if we 4434 03:23:38,399 --> 03:23:39,200 did an overlay 4435 03:23:39,200 --> 03:23:44,049 that does it tie you down too much to put the corporate 4436 03:23:44,049 --> 03:23:45,159 campus on the west 4437 03:23:45,159 --> 03:23:48,840 side and the multifamily on the east address what their 4438 03:23:48,840 --> 03:23:51,159 concerns are again 4439 03:23:51,159 --> 03:23:55,920 that's a concept plan flipping them is and this is a zoning 4440 03:23:55,920 --> 03:23:56,520 case you know I 4441 03:23:56,520 --> 03:23:59,250 mean we'll get the outside plan we have no problem flipping 4442 03:23:59,250 --> 03:24:00,120 them you know the 4443 03:24:00,120 --> 03:24:02,799 market will partly dictate that I don't think we do 4444 03:24:02,799 --> 03:24:04,280 engineering wise yeah we 4445 03:24:04,280 --> 03:24:06,059 don't we don't have your problem flip-flopping them the 4446 03:24:06,059 --> 03:24:06,760 only concern that 4447 03:24:06,760 --> 03:24:09,639 that I have trying to help in this situation trying to 4448 03:24:09,639 --> 03:24:10,799 manage your project 4449 03:24:10,799 --> 03:24:14,110 is when we take action and we do that it's done and we don 4450 03:24:14,110 --> 03:24:15,319 't want to create a 4451 03:24:15,319 --> 03:24:20,340 burden that here in two minutes of discussion sure put an 4452 03:24:20,340 --> 03:24:21,120 overlay on this 4453 03:24:21,120 --> 03:24:23,569 property line and everything west of that is this and 4454 03:24:23,569 --> 03:24:24,760 everything east of that 4455 03:24:24,760 --> 03:24:28,559 is this and then two or three months from now you do your 4456 03:24:28,559 --> 03:24:29,879 site plan you know 4457 03:24:29,879 --> 03:24:33,959 what this doesn't work so that's the only hesitation that I 4458 03:24:33,959 --> 03:24:34,680 would have in 4459 03:24:34,680 --> 03:24:39,239 offering that this evening to try to move this forward and 4460 03:24:39,239 --> 03:24:40,360 get you all at 4461 03:24:40,360 --> 03:24:45,149 least before us for a vote the only trade-off for us is if 4462 03:24:45,149 --> 03:24:46,159 we bring a 4463 03:24:46,159 --> 03:24:49,370 corporate campus in the benefit for that for the city and 4464 03:24:49,370 --> 03:24:50,799 if we flip-flop it then 4465 03:24:50,799 --> 03:24:53,399 the corporate campus doesn't overlook the lake and it kind 4466 03:24:53,399 --> 03:24:54,159 of loses some of 4467 03:24:54,159 --> 03:24:56,639 the draw because the way that hill sits and the way we have 4468 03:24:56,639 --> 03:24:57,520 it with the corporate 4469 03:24:57,520 --> 03:25:01,280 campus on this side executive suites looking out over 4470 03:25:01,280 --> 03:25:02,120 walking trails over 4471 03:25:02,120 --> 03:25:07,500 that lake and there is a company that we are courting that 4472 03:25:07,500 --> 03:25:09,600 Denton is courting and 4473 03:25:09,600 --> 03:25:11,950 everybody says long shot we're still in the running and I 4474 03:25:11,950 --> 03:25:12,959 believe Denton's best 4475 03:25:12,959 --> 03:25:15,860 place in America so I think they're coming I may be crazy I 4476 03:25:15,860 --> 03:25:17,040 may not but I 4477 03:25:17,040 --> 03:25:19,770 think sitting sitting with an executive that's thinking 4478 03:25:19,770 --> 03:25:20,559 about moving his 4479 03:25:20,559 --> 03:25:24,069 company to Denton on that hill overlooking the lake so that 4480 03:25:24,069 --> 03:25:24,680 's the only 4481 03:25:24,680 --> 03:25:27,700 reason why I'd want to keep the way we have it with 4482 03:25:27,700 --> 03:25:30,440 corporate on the east east 4483 03:25:30,440 --> 03:25:35,840 and the multifamily on the west yes sir yes sir okay I have 4484 03:25:35,840 --> 03:25:36,559 some other questions 4485 03:25:36,559 --> 03:25:40,680 if you'll stand Commissioner Ellis and I'll let you take 4486 03:25:40,680 --> 03:25:41,639 the floor thank you 4487 03:25:41,639 --> 03:25:45,159 it's really a response to him but hello everyone how are 4488 03:25:45,159 --> 03:25:48,639 you good well I like 4489 03:25:48,639 --> 03:25:50,770 where you were going with this I mean the bottom line is 4490 03:25:50,770 --> 03:25:51,719 this is a zoning case 4491 03:25:51,719 --> 03:25:55,649 and the zoning request makes sense and they can't move 4492 03:25:55,649 --> 03:25:57,200 forward with really 4493 03:25:57,200 --> 03:26:02,040 their plan until they have the zoning and can sell it and 4494 03:26:02,040 --> 03:26:03,200 before they could 4495 03:26:03,200 --> 03:26:06,200 really agree to flip-flopping anything hopefully what can 4496 03:26:06,200 --> 03:26:07,120 happen is maybe we 4497 03:26:07,120 --> 03:26:10,920 can move this along to City Council and you can continue 4498 03:26:10,920 --> 03:26:12,799 the conversation maybe 4499 03:26:12,799 --> 03:26:15,819 he can pull his opposition between now and when City 4500 03:26:15,819 --> 03:26:17,280 Council has to vote on it 4501 03:26:17,280 --> 03:26:20,729 I don't know that but but maybe if you know if we can vote 4502 03:26:20,729 --> 03:26:21,920 on this and get it 4503 03:26:21,920 --> 03:26:26,180 moved they can maybe continue and and and and move things 4504 03:26:26,180 --> 03:26:26,959 along that would be 4505 03:26:26,959 --> 03:26:32,090 mine my comments okay thank you perfect Commissioner Rose 4506 03:26:32,090 --> 03:26:33,799 lle thank you chair I 4507 03:26:33,799 --> 03:26:38,500 echo Commissioner Ellis's point this is a rezone case to R 4508 03:26:38,500 --> 03:26:39,360 CCD which makes sense 4509 03:26:39,360 --> 03:26:42,739 the multifamily is gonna come back as an SUP anyways we'll 4510 03:26:42,739 --> 03:26:43,639 we'll see how it fits 4511 03:26:43,639 --> 03:26:46,639 then but I wouldn't be it doesn't seem like it's impossible 4512 03:26:46,639 --> 03:26:47,000 but I wouldn't be 4513 03:26:47,000 --> 03:26:50,809 in favor of trying to encourage a re-engagement offline to 4514 03:26:50,809 --> 03:26:51,479 delay the 4515 03:26:51,479 --> 03:27:01,250 project anymore okay any other questions for ever okay this 4516 03:27:01,250 --> 03:27:05,239 thank you this is a 4517 03:27:05,239 --> 03:27:07,600 public hearing anyone else who would like to speak on this 4518 03:27:07,600 --> 03:27:08,319 item please come 4519 03:27:08,319 --> 03:27:15,579 forward at this time seeing none I will close the public 4520 03:27:15,579 --> 03:27:16,639 hearing and open the 4521 03:27:16,639 --> 03:27:22,409 floor for discussion or a motion Commissioner Smith thank 4522 03:27:22,409 --> 03:27:23,120 you chair I 4523 03:27:23,120 --> 03:27:29,770 think that uh mr. Rivera I wouldn't looked at Cypress 4524 03:27:29,770 --> 03:27:31,079 Waters while we've been 4525 03:27:31,079 --> 03:27:34,329 sitting here and I think that that based off if you're 4526 03:27:34,329 --> 03:27:35,079 saying that's what we're 4527 03:27:35,079 --> 03:27:38,139 kind of looking at here as for the conceptual side of it on 4528 03:27:38,139 --> 03:27:39,000 being as close 4529 03:27:39,000 --> 03:27:42,420 to DFW as that location is I think that this fits for what 4530 03:27:42,420 --> 03:27:43,639 we want being 4531 03:27:43,639 --> 03:27:45,989 between the convention center being very close to the Dent 4532 03:27:45,989 --> 03:27:47,040 Enterprise Airport and 4533 03:27:47,040 --> 03:27:50,459 is the seventh busiest airport in the state this project 4534 03:27:50,459 --> 03:27:51,280 makes sense and so I 4535 03:27:51,280 --> 03:27:58,430 full-heartedly a motion to approve Z 1725 C Commissioner 4536 03:27:58,430 --> 03:27:59,239 Roselle thank you 4537 03:27:59,239 --> 03:28:02,680 chair I will be seconding that motion but before I do it I 4538 03:28:02,680 --> 03:28:03,840 feel obliged to say 4539 03:28:03,840 --> 03:28:08,440 couple things one as a tender of so in school and oddly 4540 03:28:08,440 --> 03:28:10,280 enough a resident of 4541 03:28:10,280 --> 03:28:14,200 so in school for a time this project always as it's been 4542 03:28:14,200 --> 03:28:15,799 percolating around 4543 03:28:15,799 --> 03:28:18,059 the place it's always been personal to me to see what's 4544 03:28:18,059 --> 03:28:19,040 gonna happen with the 4545 03:28:19,040 --> 03:28:22,250 property and so seen that come to fruition actually 4546 03:28:22,250 --> 03:28:23,559 progress happening 4547 03:28:23,559 --> 03:28:27,190 property I'm super excited about and I'm hopeful that 4548 03:28:27,190 --> 03:28:28,719 whatever secret company 4549 03:28:28,719 --> 03:28:31,930 might be cordon comes through so be interested to see what 4550 03:28:31,930 --> 03:28:32,959 happens with that 4551 03:28:32,959 --> 03:28:37,909 the other thing is there was a Denton High grad a merchant 4552 03:28:37,909 --> 03:28:39,559 Marine who passed 4553 03:28:39,559 --> 03:28:42,670 away several years ago who earned his Eagle Scout while 4554 03:28:42,670 --> 03:28:43,879 doing an ecological 4555 03:28:43,879 --> 03:28:46,639 study on that pond at Selwyn and so to hear disparaging 4556 03:28:46,639 --> 03:28:47,799 words about the pond 4557 03:28:47,799 --> 03:28:51,319 about five guys going out and digging with a bucket not a 4558 03:28:51,319 --> 03:28:52,520 fan of I don't know 4559 03:28:52,520 --> 03:28:55,399 what happens to the lake going forward but it's been a 4560 03:28:55,399 --> 03:28:56,360 staple to a lot of 4561 03:28:56,360 --> 03:29:00,379 lives a lot of trail runs and everything there so that's 4562 03:29:00,379 --> 03:29:01,559 why I say I feel like I 4563 03:29:01,559 --> 03:29:04,469 owe it to him to at least say that he worked really hard on 4564 03:29:04,469 --> 03:29:05,479 that pond and it 4565 03:29:05,479 --> 03:29:08,770 was a cool lake for me when I lived there so with all that 4566 03:29:08,770 --> 03:29:10,479 I second this okay 4567 03:29:10,479 --> 03:29:15,649 we have a first and a second for approval any further 4568 03:29:15,649 --> 03:29:20,920 discussion I have a 4569 03:29:20,920 --> 03:29:24,719 quick comment and we'll call for a vote my only offering of 4570 03:29:24,719 --> 03:29:26,079 one to offer it up 4571 03:29:26,079 --> 03:29:29,290 for continuous was just to give the parties an opportunity 4572 03:29:29,290 --> 03:29:30,319 to work that out 4573 03:29:30,319 --> 03:29:33,659 understand the backstory that that sound like is not going 4574 03:29:33,659 --> 03:29:35,360 to be possible so we 4575 03:29:35,360 --> 03:29:38,030 with that I don't have any problems supporting this motion 4576 03:29:38,030 --> 03:29:38,879 and voting for it 4577 03:29:38,879 --> 03:29:42,969 this evening and with that I will call for a vote on the 4578 03:29:42,969 --> 03:29:43,520 board 4579 03:29:56,120 --> 03:30:03,729 the motion carries six to zero for approval that will move 4580 03:30:03,729 --> 03:30:05,559 us to our item 4581 03:30:05,559 --> 03:30:11,930 B and I will open the public hearing for z 18 - 0 0 0 1 a 4582 03:30:11,930 --> 03:30:13,959 and I will call on Haley 4583 03:30:13,959 --> 03:30:16,840 for presentation 4584 03:30:26,120 --> 03:30:36,120 all right good evening this is case z 18 1 for the razor 4585 03:30:36,120 --> 03:30:36,879 ranch marketplace 4586 03:30:36,879 --> 03:30:40,819 residential development a little bit of overview the 4587 03:30:40,819 --> 03:30:42,559 property is part of the 4588 03:30:42,559 --> 03:30:45,750 larger 410 acre razor ranch overlay that's shown outlined 4589 03:30:45,750 --> 03:30:46,559 in black on the 4590 03:30:46,559 --> 03:30:50,680 map the overlay has been in place since approximately 2007 4591 03:30:50,680 --> 03:30:52,520 this 40 acres on the 4592 03:30:52,520 --> 03:30:56,819 north side has always had the split zoning in place that 4593 03:30:56,819 --> 03:30:58,239 would call it to be 4594 03:30:58,239 --> 03:31:01,239 residential at some point the request before you tonight is 4595 03:31:01,239 --> 03:31:01,879 to take that 4596 03:31:01,879 --> 03:31:04,969 necessary next step of developing and approving standards 4597 03:31:04,969 --> 03:31:05,920 for that development 4598 03:31:05,920 --> 03:31:10,940 to occur within that 40 acres just to look at razor ranch 4599 03:31:10,940 --> 03:31:12,520 in a little bit of a 4600 03:31:12,520 --> 03:31:16,149 high-level overview two major areas north of 380 is the 4601 03:31:16,149 --> 03:31:16,700 marketplace 4602 03:31:16,700 --> 03:31:20,159 development and on the south side is the south campus where 4603 03:31:20,159 --> 03:31:21,280 the town center and 4604 03:31:21,280 --> 03:31:25,190 conventions that are located breaking the marketplace down 4605 03:31:25,190 --> 03:31:26,280 a little bit further 4606 03:31:26,280 --> 03:31:31,079 we have the rr2 area where a lot of the smaller residential 4607 03:31:31,079 --> 03:31:32,520 earth's restaurant 4608 03:31:32,520 --> 03:31:36,629 and retail components are in place we have the rr3 area 4609 03:31:36,629 --> 03:31:37,780 where some of the 4610 03:31:37,780 --> 03:31:41,479 bigger box stores are located those collectively have had 4611 03:31:41,479 --> 03:31:42,040 development 4612 03:31:42,040 --> 03:31:45,760 standards in place since about 2010 the remainder of the 4613 03:31:45,760 --> 03:31:47,239 marketplace is this 40 4614 03:31:47,239 --> 03:31:49,760 acres of residential development on the north side for 4615 03:31:49,760 --> 03:31:50,639 which no designer 4616 03:31:50,639 --> 03:31:55,350 development standards have yet been approved looking at 4617 03:31:55,350 --> 03:31:57,000 this 40 acres it's 4618 03:31:57,000 --> 03:32:00,040 split as I mentioned before approximately 16 acres on the 4619 03:32:00,040 --> 03:32:00,520 north side 4620 03:32:00,520 --> 03:32:03,190 are zoned in our three so that's three and a half dwelling 4621 03:32:03,190 --> 03:32:03,959 units per acre 4622 03:32:03,959 --> 03:32:08,059 roughly the 24 acres on the south side are zoned in our emu 4623 03:32:08,059 --> 03:32:09,159 12 so that's our 4624 03:32:09,159 --> 03:32:11,559 neighborhood residential mixed-use district allowing up to 4625 03:32:11,559 --> 03:32:13,920 12 units an acre 4626 03:32:13,920 --> 03:32:19,059 so looking at what has been proposed tonight there were two 4627 03:32:19,059 --> 03:32:20,399 exhibits included 4628 03:32:20,399 --> 03:32:23,000 with the development standards that were provided to you 4629 03:32:23,000 --> 03:32:24,120 the first of those kind 4630 03:32:24,120 --> 03:32:27,329 of shows what what the zoning is and where those would be 4631 03:32:27,329 --> 03:32:28,239 in place on the 4632 03:32:28,239 --> 03:32:32,520 property within the portion zoned in our three as well as 4633 03:32:32,520 --> 03:32:33,680 within the gray area 4634 03:32:33,680 --> 03:32:37,569 that shaded on the map single-family dwellings are proposed 4635 03:32:37,569 --> 03:32:39,120 within the NRM 4636 03:32:39,120 --> 03:32:42,540 u12 district the proposed permitted uses would be 4637 03:32:42,540 --> 03:32:44,079 traditional detached single 4638 03:32:44,079 --> 03:32:48,250 family attached single-family or town homes and a concept 4639 03:32:48,250 --> 03:32:48,840 that Razor has 4640 03:32:48,840 --> 03:32:51,260 adopted called big houses which is essentially a multif 4641 03:32:51,260 --> 03:32:52,159 amily product that 4642 03:32:52,159 --> 03:32:55,590 would look like a large house from the outside other uses 4643 03:32:55,590 --> 03:32:56,639 that would be 4644 03:32:56,639 --> 03:32:59,459 proposed that could occur anywhere within the development 4645 03:32:59,459 --> 03:33:00,000 would be an 4646 03:33:00,000 --> 03:33:03,159 amenity center for the residents and accessory structures 4647 03:33:03,159 --> 03:33:04,159 for the residents 4648 03:33:04,159 --> 03:33:09,700 such as garages or storage buildings exhibit C4 which was 4649 03:33:09,700 --> 03:33:11,040 the the bulk of the 4650 03:33:11,040 --> 03:33:14,000 document provided to you is the specific site design 4651 03:33:14,000 --> 03:33:15,159 standards for this 4652 03:33:15,159 --> 03:33:18,520 development so it outlines site design architecture landsca 4653 03:33:18,520 --> 03:33:19,639 ping parking other 4654 03:33:19,639 --> 03:33:22,790 guidelines such as fencing for the entire development just 4655 03:33:22,790 --> 03:33:23,680 to hit a few of 4656 03:33:23,680 --> 03:33:28,170 the highlights they are proposing a more compact urban walk 4657 03:33:28,170 --> 03:33:29,000 able design on the 4658 03:33:29,000 --> 03:33:32,090 south side so you notice some proposed reduced setbacks for 4659 03:33:32,090 --> 03:33:33,120 the town homes that 4660 03:33:33,120 --> 03:33:36,959 would be in the southern portion of the property shown on 4661 03:33:36,959 --> 03:33:38,879 the map the north side 4662 03:33:38,879 --> 03:33:41,319 as I mentioned we detached single-family there is an amen 4663 03:33:41,319 --> 03:33:42,600 ity center proposed on 4664 03:33:42,600 --> 03:33:47,159 along Bonnie Bray and then in the updated version of this 4665 03:33:47,159 --> 03:33:48,479 appendix that was 4666 03:33:48,479 --> 03:33:51,360 provided to you tonight they did provide some more details 4667 03:33:51,360 --> 03:33:52,040 on where the proposed 4668 03:33:52,040 --> 03:33:54,750 green space within the development would be which is the 4669 03:33:54,750 --> 03:33:55,840 hatched area kind of in 4670 03:33:55,840 --> 03:33:59,549 the middle some of the other key features that I wanted to 4671 03:33:59,549 --> 03:34:00,079 point out were 4672 03:34:00,079 --> 03:34:02,930 the amount of architectural diversity required within these 4673 03:34:02,930 --> 03:34:03,680 standards there's 4674 03:34:03,680 --> 03:34:06,170 a lot of call for changes in building materials changes in 4675 03:34:06,170 --> 03:34:07,000 facades throughout 4676 03:34:07,000 --> 03:34:09,540 the development to ensure a high quality visually 4677 03:34:09,540 --> 03:34:11,840 interesting product there is an 4678 03:34:11,840 --> 03:34:15,559 80% minimum masonry requirement proposed and they are in 4679 03:34:15,559 --> 03:34:16,639 keeping with the 4680 03:34:16,639 --> 03:34:20,649 building materials and color palette of the rest of razor 4681 03:34:20,649 --> 03:34:22,639 ranch just to back out 4682 03:34:22,639 --> 03:34:25,149 a little bit and look at what this area is intended for by 4683 03:34:25,149 --> 03:34:26,120 our future land use 4684 03:34:26,120 --> 03:34:29,290 plan it is called out as moderate residential so that's 4685 03:34:29,290 --> 03:34:30,120 kind of our 4686 03:34:30,120 --> 03:34:33,329 transitional zone it proposes between 4 and 12 units per 4687 03:34:33,329 --> 03:34:34,399 acre on average with a 4688 03:34:34,399 --> 03:34:37,540 mixture of housing types that is you know really critical 4689 03:34:37,540 --> 03:34:38,520 for areas such as 4690 03:34:38,520 --> 03:34:40,850 this where you're transitioning between existing single- 4691 03:34:40,850 --> 03:34:41,760 family and commercial 4692 03:34:41,760 --> 03:34:46,770 development as to some of staff's other considerations we 4693 03:34:46,770 --> 03:34:48,399 found that the overall 4694 03:34:48,399 --> 03:34:51,079 design that they're proposing for this area is consistent 4695 03:34:51,079 --> 03:34:52,000 with the zoning and 4696 03:34:52,000 --> 03:34:55,760 consistent with the rest of razor ranch we found that the 4697 03:34:55,760 --> 03:34:57,079 standards they're 4698 03:34:57,079 --> 03:35:00,479 proposing for the single-family products are overall much 4699 03:35:00,479 --> 03:35:01,879 stricter and provide a 4700 03:35:01,879 --> 03:35:04,940 lot more clarity in the type of design that's intended here 4701 03:35:04,940 --> 03:35:05,879 than the citywide 4702 03:35:05,879 --> 03:35:10,219 single-family standards to the overall density and product 4703 03:35:10,219 --> 03:35:10,719 that they're 4704 03:35:10,719 --> 03:35:13,659 proposing conforms with our future land use designation for 4705 03:35:13,659 --> 03:35:14,600 the area and it does 4706 03:35:14,600 --> 03:35:17,569 provide that logical transition between the intense 4707 03:35:17,569 --> 03:35:19,079 commercial use south of here 4708 03:35:19,079 --> 03:35:21,399 at the marketplace and those established single-family 4709 03:35:21,399 --> 03:35:24,040 neighborhoods to the north 4710 03:35:24,040 --> 03:35:27,670 notices were sent about the request we received no formal 4711 03:35:27,670 --> 03:35:28,639 statements for or 4712 03:35:28,639 --> 03:35:33,360 against this proposal and staff is recommending approval of 4713 03:35:33,360 --> 03:35:34,360 the request 4714 03:35:34,360 --> 03:35:36,729 because we did find it compatible with the surrounding 4715 03:35:36,729 --> 03:35:37,520 development and 4716 03:35:37,520 --> 03:35:40,149 consistent with the goals and objectives of our Denton plan 4717 03:35:40,149 --> 03:35:41,520 2030 and with that I 4718 03:35:41,520 --> 03:35:50,799 could stand for any questions any questions for Haley thank 4719 03:35:50,799 --> 03:35:51,680 you and I 4720 03:35:51,680 --> 03:35:55,100 believe the applicant is here if you all had any questions 4721 03:35:55,100 --> 03:35:57,760 this is a public 4722 03:35:57,760 --> 03:36:01,739 hearing I do have two cards to speak on this item first 4723 03:36:01,739 --> 03:36:03,639 card I have is Greg 4724 03:36:03,639 --> 03:36:11,049 Edwards at 1621 Amanda court in support and believe you'll 4725 03:36:11,049 --> 03:36:13,840 be the applicant 4726 03:36:16,799 --> 03:36:20,889 my name is Greg Edwards I'm a civil engineer our firm is 4727 03:36:20,889 --> 03:36:21,760 Greg Edwards 4728 03:36:21,760 --> 03:36:27,059 engineering services we're located 1621 Amanda court pond 4729 03:36:27,059 --> 03:36:29,040 or Texas we're working 4730 03:36:29,040 --> 03:36:41,920 with KB partners to try to facilitate you know the civil 4731 03:36:41,920 --> 03:36:43,280 aspect of this once 4732 03:36:43,280 --> 03:36:47,180 once it goes on we're working on preliminary plats and 4733 03:36:47,180 --> 03:36:48,200 those kind of 4734 03:36:48,200 --> 03:36:50,959 things right now first step is to get through the 4735 03:36:50,959 --> 03:36:55,200 development standards Charles 4736 03:36:55,200 --> 03:37:00,149 Harjes architects have been working on that and we really 4737 03:37:00,149 --> 03:37:01,200 appreciate their work 4738 03:37:01,200 --> 03:37:06,149 on that and think that they're coming up with the standards 4739 03:37:06,149 --> 03:37:07,879 that will indicate 4740 03:37:07,879 --> 03:37:11,700 that this is going to be a quality development and our our 4741 03:37:11,700 --> 03:37:12,600 clients are 4742 03:37:12,600 --> 03:37:20,120 committed to the quality of this product and I think Haley 4743 03:37:20,120 --> 03:37:21,879 indicated that there 4744 03:37:21,879 --> 03:37:26,719 were some questions about the site plan we do have a 4745 03:37:26,719 --> 03:37:29,000 preliminary site plan 4746 03:37:30,399 --> 03:37:35,370 that's available to look at we're doing some things this is 4747 03:37:35,370 --> 03:37:36,959 a very long and 4748 03:37:36,959 --> 03:37:43,750 narrow site it's it's very challenging you know I really 4749 03:37:43,750 --> 03:37:45,120 appreciate Daniel and 4750 03:37:45,120 --> 03:37:51,239 and and their their first approach to this and and what we 4751 03:37:51,239 --> 03:37:53,520 've got right now is 4752 03:37:53,520 --> 03:37:59,760 very similar to what they they had we're committed to the 4753 03:37:59,760 --> 03:38:02,239 residential buffers even 4754 03:38:02,239 --> 03:38:07,469 in the NRMU 12 area to keep the single-family up against 4755 03:38:07,469 --> 03:38:08,079 the existing 4756 03:38:08,079 --> 03:38:13,520 single-family development we're committed to the central 4757 03:38:13,520 --> 03:38:14,719 open space we're 4758 03:38:14,719 --> 03:38:19,569 committed to the amenity center basically the things that 4759 03:38:19,569 --> 03:38:20,520 we've been 4760 03:38:20,520 --> 03:38:27,920 doing and trying to get access from the back of the 4761 03:38:27,920 --> 03:38:30,479 commercial central area to 4762 03:38:30,479 --> 03:38:35,709 the west and tweaking some buildings and and we're still 4763 03:38:35,709 --> 03:38:38,040 working with those and 4764 03:38:38,040 --> 03:38:41,850 trying to come up with some we do have some challenging 4765 03:38:41,850 --> 03:38:44,040 clients they want three 4766 03:38:44,040 --> 03:38:48,000 more feet in the building pads and so we're working on 4767 03:38:48,000 --> 03:38:49,559 those kind of things 4768 03:38:49,559 --> 03:38:56,889 and trying to make all those things kind of line up but H 4769 03:38:56,889 --> 03:38:59,879 aley do you want to 4770 03:39:14,040 --> 03:39:31,799 This is the concept plan that kind of the progress print 4771 03:39:31,799 --> 03:39:32,760 one of the things 4772 03:39:32,760 --> 03:39:37,469 that we've done is kind of tweaked the building so that we 4773 03:39:37,469 --> 03:39:38,879 could have some 4774 03:39:38,879 --> 03:39:44,989 some building baths up against Bonnie Bray and then with 4775 03:39:44,989 --> 03:39:47,200 the big house concept 4776 03:39:47,200 --> 03:39:54,500 we've got the large facades along the entry corridor coming 4777 03:39:54,500 --> 03:39:56,120 through which is 4778 03:39:56,120 --> 03:40:01,399 basically the the concept that started out originally we've 4779 03:40:01,399 --> 03:40:02,159 got the amenity 4780 03:40:02,159 --> 03:40:08,270 center in the northeast corner we've got kind of a separate 4781 03:40:08,270 --> 03:40:10,200 access to the the 4782 03:40:10,200 --> 03:40:15,190 single-family area for the prime for most of it and then 4783 03:40:15,190 --> 03:40:17,040 yeah challenge how 4784 03:40:17,040 --> 03:40:20,649 do you get access to the other single-family and make that 4785 03:40:20,649 --> 03:40:21,399 feel like a 4786 03:40:21,399 --> 03:40:30,670 neighborhood and but I think that's that's kind of what we 4787 03:40:30,670 --> 03:40:33,399 've done the the 4788 03:40:33,399 --> 03:40:42,239 owners are have lived in these types of communities and 4789 03:40:42,239 --> 03:40:43,840 they want it to be a 4790 03:40:43,840 --> 03:40:52,360 high-scale area we've got some you know three four bedroom 4791 03:40:52,360 --> 03:40:53,760 units on there so 4792 03:40:53,760 --> 03:40:57,180 we're anticipating that there'll be maybe some extra cars 4793 03:40:57,180 --> 03:40:58,079 so they want to 4794 03:40:58,079 --> 03:41:05,010 put a lot of parking in this thing so that those residents 4795 03:41:05,010 --> 03:41:08,760 will be able to have 4796 03:41:10,760 --> 03:41:15,479 children there and part and this is kind of what we're 4797 03:41:15,479 --> 03:41:18,559 coming up with and and 4798 03:41:18,559 --> 03:41:22,319 still tweaking it and if you have any questions be glad to 4799 03:41:22,319 --> 03:41:23,639 try to answer those 4800 03:41:23,639 --> 03:41:31,559 and Daniel was here from Hodges architect to address any 4801 03:41:31,559 --> 03:41:32,120 questions you 4802 03:41:32,120 --> 03:41:35,120 have about the building materials and stuff do you have 4803 03:41:35,120 --> 03:41:35,879 question Commissioner 4804 03:41:35,879 --> 03:41:41,360 Beck thank you chair thank you mr. for your presentation 4805 03:41:41,360 --> 03:41:42,239 here and if I'm 4806 03:41:42,239 --> 03:41:45,280 looking at this conceptual plan right are we seeing 4807 03:41:45,280 --> 03:41:47,639 essentially three means of 4808 03:41:47,639 --> 03:41:51,649 ingress and egress into this area on the west off of Bonnie 4809 03:41:51,649 --> 03:41:52,479 Bray and it looks 4810 03:41:52,479 --> 03:41:57,069 like south maybe there's a road coming in yes but there's 4811 03:41:57,069 --> 03:41:58,360 not a straight through 4812 03:41:58,360 --> 03:42:02,489 road there's going to be some diversion going through the 4813 03:42:02,489 --> 03:42:04,760 community yeah we feel 4814 03:42:04,760 --> 03:42:08,180 the primary access is going to be on Bonnie Bray we have 4815 03:42:08,180 --> 03:42:09,559 had discussions with 4816 03:42:09,559 --> 03:42:15,280 the staff about on the very west potentially gating that 4817 03:42:15,280 --> 03:42:16,799 area to limit the 4818 03:42:16,799 --> 03:42:22,950 cut-through traffic that wants to go to the mall we do have 4819 03:42:22,950 --> 03:42:24,799 an access out of the 4820 03:42:24,799 --> 03:42:36,479 back of the commercial area so hopefully the residents will 4821 03:42:36,479 --> 03:42:38,280 be able to get in and 4822 03:42:38,280 --> 03:42:41,920 in and out and hopefully not have a whole lot of cut- 4823 03:42:41,920 --> 03:42:43,159 through traffic to this 4824 03:42:43,159 --> 03:42:47,250 area okay any and just out of curiosity what is this little 4825 03:42:47,250 --> 03:42:48,479 looks like a walking 4826 03:42:48,479 --> 03:42:54,889 path that comes down between the fifth and sixth house and 4827 03:42:54,889 --> 03:42:56,559 kind of curves 4828 03:42:56,559 --> 03:43:05,680 around and then goes into the basically there's a large 4829 03:43:05,680 --> 03:43:07,440 drainage area that 4830 03:43:07,440 --> 03:43:11,360 goes out of the existing single-family residential area to 4831 03:43:11,360 --> 03:43:12,120 the north and 4832 03:43:12,120 --> 03:43:16,389 basically we're carrying that in and that flow will have to 4833 03:43:16,389 --> 03:43:17,600 go through a box 4834 03:43:17,600 --> 03:43:24,420 culvert and into the region area the regional detention 4835 03:43:24,420 --> 03:43:25,440 area for razor 4836 03:43:25,440 --> 03:43:32,280 ranch that's south okay all right thank you 4837 03:43:33,239 --> 03:43:37,520 Commissioner Sanchez yeah I was wondering about that big 4838 03:43:37,520 --> 03:43:38,600 house concept is 4839 03:43:38,600 --> 03:43:42,739 that pretty much like a one single house with multiple 4840 03:43:42,739 --> 03:43:44,520 doors for apartments is 4841 03:43:44,520 --> 03:43:47,829 that how it works I've seen something like that here in 4842 03:43:47,829 --> 03:43:51,120 Denton on I think it's 4843 03:43:51,120 --> 03:43:54,809 on Strickland and so I was just trying to figure out what 4844 03:43:54,809 --> 03:43:56,360 that big house concept 4845 03:43:56,360 --> 03:44:01,590 was can you do to find it for me but what it looks like the 4846 03:44:01,590 --> 03:44:02,280 big you said 4847 03:44:02,280 --> 03:44:07,840 there's a big house is it yeah you're building some big 4848 03:44:07,840 --> 03:44:08,440 houses 4849 03:44:08,440 --> 03:44:13,670 oh the big house concept is is basically we in a in a 4850 03:44:13,670 --> 03:44:15,680 building we want to make it 4851 03:44:15,680 --> 03:44:26,370 look like a single home rather than apartment kind of units 4852 03:44:26,370 --> 03:44:27,399 or townhome units 4853 03:44:27,399 --> 03:44:35,370 it's an idea of trying to get get that you know as a I 4854 03:44:35,370 --> 03:44:39,000 think Daniel might be 4855 03:44:39,000 --> 03:44:43,229 better at explaining that but the big house concept is is 4856 03:44:43,229 --> 03:44:44,879 we've got you know a 4857 03:44:44,879 --> 03:44:48,079 big big unit and you'd like to come on up I have your there 4858 03:44:48,079 --> 03:44:48,959 's a next card and 4859 03:44:48,959 --> 03:44:52,489 you may can you give us your name and address and chime in 4860 03:44:52,489 --> 03:44:53,000 as well 4861 03:44:53,000 --> 03:44:57,270 Daniel you work with Hodges architecture 136 42 Omega in 4862 03:44:57,270 --> 03:44:59,719 Dallas the big house 4863 03:44:59,719 --> 03:45:04,159 essentially we take individual townhomes and try to make 4864 03:45:04,159 --> 03:45:05,520 them look like one house 4865 03:45:05,520 --> 03:45:10,469 that's really all it is some of them some of the units here 4866 03:45:10,469 --> 03:45:11,280 might look like 4867 03:45:11,280 --> 03:45:14,700 individual townhomes some of them might be one big house 4868 03:45:14,700 --> 03:45:16,000 that looks like it has 4869 03:45:16,000 --> 03:45:23,799 a couple of entries to it thank you question I guess I was 4870 03:45:23,799 --> 03:45:24,239 just trying to 4871 03:45:24,239 --> 03:45:28,819 visualize it so I guess I have to see it I was just saying 4872 03:45:28,819 --> 03:45:29,719 like I've seen 4873 03:45:29,719 --> 03:45:32,270 something on Strickland and I thought me on here and then 4874 03:45:32,270 --> 03:45:33,200 and I thought maybe 4875 03:45:33,200 --> 03:45:35,409 that's what you were talking about but looks this it looks 4876 03:45:35,409 --> 03:45:36,079 a little sounds a 4877 03:45:36,079 --> 03:45:40,600 little bit different so when you say a multiple several 4878 03:45:40,600 --> 03:45:43,200 townhomes put together 4879 03:45:43,200 --> 03:45:47,159 okay I've never seen anything you can see any of these in 4880 03:45:47,159 --> 03:45:48,079 these groups of 4881 03:45:48,079 --> 03:45:51,799 groups of townhomes here you know they might though those 4882 03:45:51,799 --> 03:45:53,200 might look like be 4883 03:45:53,200 --> 03:45:56,569 distinguishable as individual units right or in a big house 4884 03:45:56,569 --> 03:45:57,520 they might look 4885 03:45:57,520 --> 03:46:07,290 like one house all right Commissioner Ellis thank you 4886 03:46:07,290 --> 03:46:07,879 actually did you have a 4887 03:46:07,879 --> 03:46:14,600 presentation because we can talk no I couple questions with 4888 03:46:14,600 --> 03:46:15,559 regard to the big 4889 03:46:15,559 --> 03:46:19,459 house concept is does each unit have its own entry yes from 4890 03:46:19,459 --> 03:46:20,920 from the outside yes 4891 03:46:20,920 --> 03:46:25,010 okay okay so I think I from the from the back side you'll 4892 03:46:25,010 --> 03:46:26,399 be more recognizable 4893 03:46:26,399 --> 03:46:29,909 because it'll be a garage for each unit from the front side 4894 03:46:29,909 --> 03:46:30,879 you might the unit 4895 03:46:30,879 --> 03:46:34,319 entries might be hidden so you might really not know 4896 03:46:34,319 --> 03:46:37,540 with regard to the standards which look like pretty high- 4897 03:46:37,540 --> 03:46:38,959 end standards I enjoyed 4898 03:46:38,959 --> 03:46:42,059 reading through them did you consider it being a gated 4899 03:46:42,059 --> 03:46:44,399 community altogether I 4900 03:46:44,399 --> 03:46:48,079 don't think the development wants it to be gated 4901 03:46:48,079 --> 03:46:51,399 necessarily but we are in the 4902 03:46:51,399 --> 03:46:55,100 planning process you can see right here that we're kind of 4903 03:46:55,100 --> 03:46:56,239 prepping it to be 4904 03:46:56,239 --> 03:47:01,940 that way if indeed needs to go that direction I'll give you 4905 03:47:01,940 --> 03:47:03,239 an access point 4906 03:47:03,239 --> 03:47:07,690 to the back that would be usable for that neighborhood and 4907 03:47:07,690 --> 03:47:08,760 keep it to the 4908 03:47:08,760 --> 03:47:11,290 just that neighborhood yeah yeah we're just trying to you 4909 03:47:11,290 --> 03:47:12,360 know with the fact 4910 03:47:12,360 --> 03:47:14,649 that there's not just a straight drive-through on it right 4911 03:47:14,649 --> 03:47:15,200 and if we do 4912 03:47:15,200 --> 03:47:19,479 gate this backside it would just just trying to keep the 4913 03:47:19,479 --> 03:47:21,600 speed demons sure 4914 03:47:21,600 --> 03:47:26,079 flying through the place yeah it makes sense thank you 4915 03:47:26,079 --> 03:47:30,079 Commissioner Smith nature you envision these all being rent 4916 03:47:30,079 --> 03:47:31,159 als or selling a 4917 03:47:31,159 --> 03:47:34,170 property my understanding is that this is all for sale 4918 03:47:34,170 --> 03:47:35,959 property rough estimate 4919 03:47:35,959 --> 03:47:39,879 of property value I can't speak to that right now is 4920 03:47:39,879 --> 03:47:41,479 anybody can anybody here 4921 03:47:41,479 --> 03:47:45,170 speak to the rough rough estimate with property value would 4922 03:47:45,170 --> 03:47:46,200 be for the units 4923 03:47:46,200 --> 03:47:48,889 the property value rough estimate what you think the 4924 03:47:48,889 --> 03:47:50,120 property value for the 4925 03:47:50,120 --> 03:47:54,459 units that you guys conceptually will build the zoning 4926 03:47:54,459 --> 03:47:59,200 change is accepted I 4927 03:47:59,200 --> 03:48:05,719 don't know they've been comparing the values with the town 4928 03:48:05,719 --> 03:48:08,000 homes that are up 4929 03:48:08,000 --> 03:48:18,110 on 77 north of the substation and and they're antisocial 4930 03:48:18,110 --> 03:48:19,000 repeating these are 4931 03:48:19,000 --> 03:48:25,770 going to be 20 30 percent maybe even more higher value than 4932 03:48:25,770 --> 03:48:27,399 those looking 4933 03:48:27,399 --> 03:48:32,159 for that that upper scale that's why we're putting in more 4934 03:48:32,159 --> 03:48:34,840 parking and and 4935 03:48:34,840 --> 03:48:39,090 the Humanity Center and the and the garages and that kind 4936 03:48:39,090 --> 03:48:40,239 of stuff to cater 4937 03:48:40,239 --> 03:48:47,159 to these people and hopefully we'll have with with some of 4938 03:48:47,159 --> 03:48:49,000 the newer you know 4939 03:48:49,000 --> 03:48:53,299 food delivery things hoping that the Humanity Center will 4940 03:48:53,299 --> 03:48:54,040 be able to 4941 03:48:54,040 --> 03:48:58,360 accommodate some of those things we do have 4942 03:49:01,639 --> 03:49:10,270 part of their layout was some places for storage for cold 4943 03:49:10,270 --> 03:49:14,600 storage for yeah Greg's 4944 03:49:14,600 --> 03:49:19,909 talking about the like Amazon boxes automated delivery 4945 03:49:19,909 --> 03:49:21,000 parcel boxes 4946 03:49:21,000 --> 03:49:25,430 planning on two or three of those throughout the site okay 4947 03:49:25,430 --> 03:49:28,600 thank you any 4948 03:49:28,600 --> 03:49:34,870 other questions for the applicants thank you this is a 4949 03:49:34,870 --> 03:49:36,959 public hearing so anyone 4950 03:49:36,959 --> 03:49:39,850 who would like to speak on this item please come forward at 4951 03:49:39,850 --> 03:49:40,719 this time and if 4952 03:49:40,719 --> 03:49:43,350 you haven't filled out a card you can speak and then fill 4953 03:49:43,350 --> 03:49:44,239 out a card before 4954 03:49:44,239 --> 03:49:50,540 you go you can come and speak you you don't have to have a 4955 03:49:50,540 --> 03:49:51,879 card I was trying 4956 03:49:51,879 --> 03:49:54,329 to say you can come and give your name and address and 4957 03:49:54,329 --> 03:49:55,399 speak and then please 4958 03:49:55,399 --> 03:49:58,399 just fill out a card before you go so yes please come 4959 03:49:58,399 --> 03:49:58,639 speaking my name is 4960 03:49:58,639 --> 03:50:03,100 Stephanie Wilson my address is 2609 Thunderbird Drive in 4961 03:50:03,100 --> 03:50:04,120 here in Denton 4962 03:50:04,120 --> 03:50:07,930 right my backyard backs up to the property that they're 4963 03:50:07,930 --> 03:50:09,440 discussing and I 4964 03:50:09,440 --> 03:50:11,229 got to admit some of the things that they were talking 4965 03:50:11,229 --> 03:50:12,159 about we couldn't hear 4966 03:50:12,159 --> 03:50:15,579 so I apologize up front if I'm asked a question that's 4967 03:50:15,579 --> 03:50:17,840 already been covered I 4968 03:50:17,840 --> 03:50:21,450 could not hear what they were talking about in the way of 4969 03:50:21,450 --> 03:50:23,079 entrances and exits 4970 03:50:23,079 --> 03:50:28,520 out of that area but if anyone has ever been on Bonnie Bray 4971 03:50:28,520 --> 03:50:30,040 the traffic is 4972 03:50:30,040 --> 03:50:34,040 horrible and to add one more just one more exit of more 4973 03:50:34,040 --> 03:50:35,079 people coming in and 4974 03:50:35,079 --> 03:50:40,989 out along that area it just seems overwhelming quite 4975 03:50:40,989 --> 03:50:42,840 honestly so if there 4976 03:50:42,840 --> 03:50:47,790 is a second exit I just didn't hear where it was it was 4977 03:50:47,790 --> 03:50:49,120 curious if there's 4978 03:50:49,120 --> 03:50:53,549 any entrance into the neighborhood that I live in because 4979 03:50:53,549 --> 03:50:54,639 we certainly wouldn't 4980 03:50:54,639 --> 03:51:02,469 want to join add those roads to that area also I think I 4981 03:51:02,469 --> 03:51:04,079 saw where there was 4982 03:51:04,079 --> 03:51:09,680 the there was no easement between our fences and the new 4983 03:51:09,680 --> 03:51:12,319 one that would go in 4984 03:51:12,319 --> 03:51:16,750 so I obviously we have a question about whether there would 4985 03:51:16,750 --> 03:51:18,079 be what type of 4986 03:51:18,079 --> 03:51:23,360 fence there would be also we have all of our wiring is 4987 03:51:23,360 --> 03:51:25,200 underground we've enjoyed 4988 03:51:25,200 --> 03:51:28,629 not having all these electrical wires and utilities was 4989 03:51:28,629 --> 03:51:29,879 hoping that that would 4990 03:51:29,879 --> 03:51:33,229 follow suit into that same neighborhood because when we're 4991 03:51:33,229 --> 03:51:34,479 in our backyard we've 4992 03:51:34,479 --> 03:51:38,489 not had to look at wiring and would like that to continue 4993 03:51:38,489 --> 03:51:41,719 going forward as well 4994 03:51:44,600 --> 03:51:47,979 we do have to well I think that's it I think everything 4995 03:51:47,979 --> 03:51:50,920 else got covered I'll 4996 03:51:50,920 --> 03:51:53,940 ask staff just to come up and let's go over the entrances 4997 03:51:53,940 --> 03:51:54,760 again so that 4998 03:51:54,760 --> 03:51:59,190 everybody's aware of the ingress and egress points 4999 03:51:59,190 --> 03:52:01,399 certainly not sure how 5000 03:52:01,399 --> 03:52:04,780 well this shows up on the screen so I'll try to zoom in a 5001 03:52:04,780 --> 03:52:07,319 little bit one primary 5002 03:52:07,319 --> 03:52:11,500 entrance here on Bonnie Bray there is a proposed entrance 5003 03:52:11,500 --> 03:52:12,360 here that I believe 5004 03:52:12,360 --> 03:52:15,459 would would be gated to the marketplace development and 5005 03:52:15,459 --> 03:52:16,760 then the other would be 5006 03:52:16,760 --> 03:52:20,139 a continuation I can't recall the name of the street off 5007 03:52:20,139 --> 03:52:21,000 the top of my head 5008 03:52:21,000 --> 03:52:25,719 Augusta Augusta yeah and and as they mentioned we're still 5009 03:52:25,719 --> 03:52:26,600 in discussions as 5010 03:52:26,600 --> 03:52:28,719 to rather you know if these are private streets there may 5011 03:52:28,719 --> 03:52:29,520 be a possibility to 5012 03:52:29,520 --> 03:52:32,729 gate the entire community if they're public streets we 5013 03:52:32,729 --> 03:52:33,600 wouldn't be able to 5014 03:52:33,600 --> 03:52:37,360 have this point gated I suspect so this for clarification 5015 03:52:37,360 --> 03:52:38,319 there is no 5016 03:52:38,319 --> 03:52:42,270 connectivity to the north out of this new proposed subdiv 5017 03:52:42,270 --> 03:52:43,319 ision to these 5018 03:52:43,319 --> 03:52:46,750 residential existing subdivisions to the north of this 5019 03:52:46,750 --> 03:52:48,000 piece no what what may 5020 03:52:48,000 --> 03:52:52,520 have looked like a connection here is actually the drainage 5021 03:52:52,520 --> 03:52:52,920 flow yeah so no 5022 03:52:52,920 --> 03:52:57,180 connections to the north right does that answer your 5023 03:52:57,180 --> 03:52:58,479 question okay 5024 03:52:59,200 --> 03:53:02,299 just commit commission we were concerned about electrical - 5025 03:53:02,299 --> 03:53:03,159 it's it'll be 5026 03:53:03,159 --> 03:53:06,450 underground I assume we're doing I know DME allows for both 5027 03:53:06,450 --> 03:53:06,879 I think their 5028 03:53:06,879 --> 03:53:09,229 preference is underground so I suspect that would be 5029 03:53:09,229 --> 03:53:12,840 continued here okay thank 5030 03:53:12,840 --> 03:53:18,090 you any Commissioner Ellis Haley sorry thank you chair 5031 03:53:18,090 --> 03:53:20,079 sorry she had a concern 5032 03:53:20,079 --> 03:53:22,959 with fencing which is addressed in these standards from 5033 03:53:22,959 --> 03:53:23,920 what I understand 5034 03:53:23,920 --> 03:53:26,989 correct yes the standards do provide for various fencing 5035 03:53:26,989 --> 03:53:27,680 materials I believe 5036 03:53:27,680 --> 03:53:30,969 wood wrought iron and masonry were all possibilities with a 5037 03:53:30,969 --> 03:53:32,040 minimum height of 5038 03:53:32,040 --> 03:53:39,719 six feet okay great ma'am if you'd like to speak further 5039 03:53:39,719 --> 03:53:40,719 please come to the mic 5040 03:53:40,719 --> 03:53:45,149 and you're okay I don't understand the right iron there 5041 03:53:45,149 --> 03:53:46,559 would be because that 5042 03:53:46,559 --> 03:53:49,639 would not block and it's just one of the possible materials 5043 03:53:49,639 --> 03:53:50,120 that they could 5044 03:53:50,120 --> 03:53:54,120 incorporate it may be a mixture of materials 5045 03:54:00,559 --> 03:54:03,639 that answer your questions ma'am thank you great thanks for 5046 03:54:03,639 --> 03:54:04,159 coming to the mic 5047 03:54:04,159 --> 03:54:07,129 so those that are watching online can hear your questions 5048 03:54:07,129 --> 03:54:07,879 and comments 5049 03:54:07,879 --> 03:54:11,579 Commissioner Ellis did you have anything else up they they 5050 03:54:11,579 --> 03:54:12,680 sorry they have you on 5051 03:54:12,680 --> 03:54:16,309 the board still thank you again this is a public hearing 5052 03:54:16,309 --> 03:54:17,200 anyone who would like to 5053 03:54:17,200 --> 03:54:21,629 speak on the item please come forward and you can fill out 5054 03:54:21,629 --> 03:54:22,600 a card later 5055 03:54:31,360 --> 03:54:37,430 hi I'm Jim Wilson I live at 2609 Thunderbird Drive and I'm 5056 03:54:37,430 --> 03:54:38,319 not mistaken 5057 03:54:38,319 --> 03:54:41,020 that's this area right in here correct that's Thunderbird 5058 03:54:41,020 --> 03:54:42,159 here so our home is 5059 03:54:42,159 --> 03:54:45,590 right in here yes all right so when you talked about the m 5060 03:54:45,590 --> 03:54:46,920 asonry or the wrought 5061 03:54:46,920 --> 03:54:49,959 iron as possibilities are you saying that you may construct 5062 03:54:49,959 --> 03:54:51,280 a wall between us 5063 03:54:51,280 --> 03:54:54,799 and and the houses that are going to be on that line right 5064 03:54:54,799 --> 03:54:55,719 there is that what 5065 03:54:55,719 --> 03:55:05,489 you're saying I haven't seen the detailed plans yet to know 5066 03:55:05,489 --> 03:55:06,520 where perimeter 5067 03:55:06,520 --> 03:55:09,940 fencing would be proposed but the code would or the 5068 03:55:09,940 --> 03:55:11,479 proposed amendments would 5069 03:55:11,479 --> 03:55:14,690 allow for a perimeter fence around any portion of the 5070 03:55:14,690 --> 03:55:16,159 property that could be 5071 03:55:16,159 --> 03:55:19,120 constructed of any of those materials but I haven't seen 5072 03:55:19,120 --> 03:55:20,079 those plans as to 5073 03:55:20,079 --> 03:55:23,799 where that fence would be proposed at this time okay 5074 03:55:23,799 --> 03:55:25,200 another question I had is 5075 03:55:25,200 --> 03:55:28,370 that you saw that there may be access to this street right 5076 03:55:28,370 --> 03:55:29,440 over here which I 5077 03:55:29,440 --> 03:55:32,629 believe is Greenway is that Greenway I believe it's green 5078 03:55:32,629 --> 03:55:33,959 it's Augusta Augusta 5079 03:55:33,959 --> 03:55:39,129 Augusta okay so the access to that street there from this 5080 03:55:39,129 --> 03:55:40,239 subdivision that 5081 03:55:40,239 --> 03:55:43,200 you're working on that aspect of it yes our Augusta Drive 5082 03:55:43,200 --> 03:55:44,159 would be continued 5083 03:55:44,159 --> 03:55:47,729 into the subdivision the reason I bring that up is because 5084 03:55:47,729 --> 03:55:48,840 I know Bonnie braes 5085 03:55:48,840 --> 03:55:51,719 an issue traffic wise if you've been there in the summer 5086 03:55:51,719 --> 03:55:52,920 when they have salt 5087 03:55:52,920 --> 03:55:55,569 hall tournaments track meets all kinds of things not to 5088 03:55:55,569 --> 03:55:57,120 mention the church when it 5089 03:55:57,120 --> 03:56:00,010 lets out and all the masses and the things that go on with 5090 03:56:00,010 --> 03:56:00,920 that Bonnie brae 5091 03:56:00,920 --> 03:56:07,389 is unbelievably difficult at times my big concern is the 5092 03:56:07,389 --> 03:56:08,819 fact that there's no 5093 03:56:08,819 --> 03:56:12,739 access from the service road to anything that is razor 5094 03:56:12,739 --> 03:56:14,200 ranch on the north side of 5095 03:56:14,200 --> 03:56:18,629 380 absolutely no access there's a big sign that says hey 5096 03:56:18,629 --> 03:56:20,159 guess we got Academy 5097 03:56:20,159 --> 03:56:24,510 there's Sam's there's Walmart so people cross 380 going 5098 03:56:24,510 --> 03:56:25,440 north and stay on the 5099 03:56:25,440 --> 03:56:28,649 service road and go oh my there's nothing here so I can't 5100 03:56:28,649 --> 03:56:29,879 get in there I'm 5101 03:56:29,879 --> 03:56:33,170 going to go to the first Street I can which is in this case 5102 03:56:33,170 --> 03:56:34,319 Thunderbird that's 5103 03:56:34,319 --> 03:56:38,110 our Street we have an inordinate amount of traffic on that 5104 03:56:38,110 --> 03:56:39,959 street already just 5105 03:56:39,959 --> 03:56:43,590 because there's no access from the service road this 5106 03:56:43,590 --> 03:56:44,680 development here I 5107 03:56:44,680 --> 03:56:48,690 think just to avoid the traffic on University and Bonnie 5108 03:56:48,690 --> 03:56:49,600 Brae will be 5109 03:56:49,600 --> 03:56:53,229 utilizing our Street in order to get around to get into 5110 03:56:53,229 --> 03:56:54,520 their subdivision 5111 03:56:54,520 --> 03:56:58,959 that's a lot of houses that's a lot of cars that's a lot of 5112 03:56:58,959 --> 03:57:00,159 traffic in there so 5113 03:57:00,159 --> 03:57:03,319 that's that's our big concern the neighbors that are here 5114 03:57:03,319 --> 03:57:04,159 with me right now 5115 03:57:04,159 --> 03:57:07,299 we all live in that section of Thunderbird right in this 5116 03:57:07,299 --> 03:57:08,000 area right here 5117 03:57:08,000 --> 03:57:11,520 and we see this almost daily as much traffic as there is it 5118 03:57:11,520 --> 03:57:12,440 comes through 5119 03:57:12,440 --> 03:57:16,389 that area so needless to say we're obviously opposed to 5120 03:57:16,389 --> 03:57:18,239 this but we just 5121 03:57:18,239 --> 03:57:21,409 want to see some relief of the traffic situation that's 5122 03:57:21,409 --> 03:57:22,440 happening in our 5123 03:57:22,440 --> 03:57:24,479 particular established neighborhood that's been there 5124 03:57:24,479 --> 03:57:25,600 forever and ever and 5125 03:57:25,600 --> 03:57:28,559 and I don't understand why the northwest side of Denton all 5126 03:57:28,559 --> 03:57:29,159 of a sudden has 5127 03:57:29,159 --> 03:57:32,780 become such a burgeoning place of commerce and development 5128 03:57:32,780 --> 03:57:34,920 but oh my 15 5129 03:57:34,920 --> 03:57:37,270 years ago it was and we were like out there in the country 5130 03:57:37,270 --> 03:57:38,079 by ourselves and 5131 03:57:38,079 --> 03:57:41,290 now boom here we are but anyway so those are our concerns 5132 03:57:41,290 --> 03:57:42,360 is mainly the traffic 5133 03:57:42,360 --> 03:57:46,129 and and just to make sure that something is done to relieve 5134 03:57:46,129 --> 03:57:46,920 some of the traffic 5135 03:57:46,920 --> 03:57:49,319 it's going to be created by all this to be honest with you 5136 03:57:49,319 --> 03:57:51,239 thank you I have a 5137 03:57:51,239 --> 03:57:54,319 question for you sir mr. Wilson sorry I didn't catch you 5138 03:57:54,319 --> 03:57:54,639 sooner 5139 03:57:54,639 --> 03:57:58,920 problem does commissioner Rizzo thank you chair actually I 5140 03:57:58,920 --> 03:57:59,399 don't have a 5141 03:57:59,399 --> 03:58:02,280 question but I wanted to see we can get a good response for 5142 03:58:02,280 --> 03:58:03,200 you from staff so I 5143 03:58:03,200 --> 03:58:07,079 appreciate you coming up mr. Wilson first I think if if and 5144 03:58:07,079 --> 03:58:07,639 when the 5145 03:58:07,639 --> 03:58:10,819 property north of Cracker Barrel gets developed that would 5146 03:58:10,819 --> 03:58:11,600 help out a little 5147 03:58:11,600 --> 03:58:14,979 bit if there's no but that's off topic but the question I 5148 03:58:14,979 --> 03:58:16,559 had for staff is could 5149 03:58:16,559 --> 03:58:23,309 we have an update on the mobility of Bonnie Bray as was 5150 03:58:23,309 --> 03:58:23,559 that me 5151 03:58:23,559 --> 03:58:26,360 and Siri 5152 03:58:26,719 --> 03:58:31,559 serious check in mobility specifically with that is one the 5153 03:58:31,559 --> 03:58:32,239 status of Bonnie 5154 03:58:32,239 --> 03:58:35,870 Bray but also would there be a traffic study to get a dec 5155 03:58:35,870 --> 03:58:37,079 eleration lane into 5156 03:58:37,079 --> 03:58:40,120 this development so hopefully if the congestion of turning 5157 03:58:40,120 --> 03:58:40,959 in and out might 5158 03:58:40,959 --> 03:58:48,729 not affect Bonnie Bray can you provide an update for us in 5159 03:58:48,729 --> 03:59:01,159 terms of a traffic 5160 03:59:01,159 --> 03:59:04,040 study I know there was one done for razor ranch several 5161 03:59:04,040 --> 03:59:05,319 years ago for the 5162 03:59:05,319 --> 03:59:08,290 entire development as part of this since the zoning was 5163 03:59:08,290 --> 03:59:09,520 already in place there 5164 03:59:09,520 --> 03:59:13,510 was no TIA done for this particular project to speak to a 5165 03:59:13,510 --> 03:59:14,639 couple of your 5166 03:59:14,639 --> 03:59:19,069 other questions though first this this is still part of 5167 03:59:19,069 --> 03:59:20,000 razor ranch that I know 5168 03:59:20,000 --> 03:59:22,260 they're they're working on development for but that will 5169 03:59:22,260 --> 03:59:23,120 probably be several 5170 03:59:23,120 --> 03:59:28,069 years away great this portion of Bonnie Bray is phase six 5171 03:59:28,069 --> 03:59:29,799 of the overall Bonnie 5172 03:59:29,799 --> 03:59:32,899 Bray expansion plan that started on the south side of the 5173 03:59:32,899 --> 03:59:33,639 city and is moving 5174 03:59:33,639 --> 03:59:38,590 north the last I heard it is in the early stages of design 5175 03:59:38,590 --> 03:59:39,879 and it would be 5176 03:59:39,879 --> 03:59:45,129 perhaps 2020 or 2021 before construction begins just due to 5177 03:59:45,129 --> 03:59:46,239 funding and the fact 5178 03:59:46,239 --> 03:59:48,719 that they're working north from the south side of the city 5179 03:59:48,719 --> 03:59:50,239 okay but that that is 5180 03:59:50,239 --> 03:59:54,239 in process and it is impending within the next few years 5181 03:59:54,239 --> 03:59:55,280 for this to be 5182 03:59:55,280 --> 04:00:00,229 widened perfect and what would qualify the development 5183 04:00:00,229 --> 04:00:01,120 getting a deceleration 5184 04:00:01,120 --> 04:00:05,729 lane to turn from how does that process work typically that 5185 04:00:05,729 --> 04:00:06,479 would be something 5186 04:00:06,479 --> 04:00:10,219 that comes out of a TIA just this and I'm not sure like I 5187 04:00:10,219 --> 04:00:11,120 said without them 5188 04:00:11,120 --> 04:00:13,860 doing a TIA for this rather that would be considered I 5189 04:00:13,860 --> 04:00:15,879 believe I'm correct in 5190 04:00:15,879 --> 04:00:18,520 saying that there is talks of possibly a signal going in 5191 04:00:18,520 --> 04:00:19,639 just south of there at 5192 04:00:19,639 --> 04:00:23,250 the drive where Academy is where it'll be crossing over 5193 04:00:23,250 --> 04:00:26,079 into the future HEB 5194 04:00:26,079 --> 04:00:28,899 shopping center that's going in across the road here I 5195 04:00:28,899 --> 04:00:29,959 believe I've heard 5196 04:00:29,959 --> 04:00:33,479 talks of a possible signal there okay perfect so that may 5197 04:00:33,479 --> 04:00:34,280 alleviate some of 5198 04:00:34,280 --> 04:00:41,610 the traffic concerns yeah hopefully thank you okay sure I'm 5199 04:00:41,610 --> 04:00:42,120 just gonna ask 5200 04:00:42,120 --> 04:00:44,809 one more question maybe too early in the stages right now 5201 04:00:44,809 --> 04:00:45,440 but but this 5202 04:00:45,440 --> 04:00:49,290 development would there be an HOA involved in this do you 5203 04:00:49,290 --> 04:00:51,680 know okay an 5204 04:00:51,680 --> 04:00:54,530 enforceable HOA that would actually take care of the 5205 04:00:54,530 --> 04:00:56,719 property okay all right 5206 04:00:56,719 --> 04:01:01,149 thank you thank you sir again this is a public hearing 5207 04:01:01,149 --> 04:01:02,440 anyone who'd like to 5208 04:01:02,440 --> 04:01:09,069 speak on this item please come forward at this time anybody 5209 04:01:09,069 --> 04:01:18,799 else I waited 5210 04:01:21,639 --> 04:01:26,590 I'm Norma Ferenbacher and I live at 2705 Thunderbird so 5211 04:01:26,590 --> 04:01:29,399 right along the place for 5212 04:01:29,399 --> 04:01:33,030 those big homes are gonna be what our big houses I was I 5213 04:01:33,030 --> 04:01:33,959 was with the 5214 04:01:33,959 --> 04:01:37,770 understanding that there was going to be one acre lots and 5215 04:01:37,770 --> 04:01:39,280 three homes per one 5216 04:01:39,280 --> 04:01:43,360 acre lots I don't know where I got that at but what our big 5217 04:01:43,360 --> 04:01:44,000 homes are those 5218 04:01:44,000 --> 04:01:50,829 apartment buildings or what I don't are they townhouses I'd 5219 04:01:50,829 --> 04:01:51,879 call on the 5220 04:01:51,879 --> 04:01:57,360 applicant to come up and address your question specifically 5221 04:01:57,360 --> 04:01:59,040 this way if you 5222 04:01:59,040 --> 04:02:02,649 don't mind get to the mic so those that are watching online 5223 04:02:02,649 --> 04:02:03,479 can hear you 5224 04:02:03,479 --> 04:02:11,059 how do we get back to the one of the exhibits that shows 5225 04:02:11,059 --> 04:02:15,159 the different zoning so 5226 04:02:15,159 --> 04:02:18,959 this this whole zone right here would all be single-family 5227 04:02:18,959 --> 04:02:21,559 individual lots 5228 04:02:21,559 --> 04:02:37,219 where's the thing that shows the big homes where someone 5229 04:02:37,219 --> 04:02:37,399 said that these are 5230 04:02:37,399 --> 04:02:41,829 these those what are those this is just individual 5231 04:02:41,829 --> 04:02:43,319 individual single-family 5232 04:02:43,319 --> 04:02:47,639 detached homes where did where did we get the word big 5233 04:02:47,639 --> 04:02:48,799 houses ma'am if you 5234 04:02:48,799 --> 04:02:52,239 don't mind can you can you come up where did we get the 5235 04:02:52,239 --> 04:02:54,399 word big houses big homes 5236 04:02:54,399 --> 04:02:57,049 where the parking was going to be in the back and there 5237 04:02:57,049 --> 04:02:58,680 would be one entrance to 5238 04:02:58,680 --> 04:03:00,920 the front I was under the understanding that those were 5239 04:03:00,920 --> 04:03:02,879 multiple multiple family 5240 04:03:02,879 --> 04:03:06,399 homes not big houses for individual families those are 5241 04:03:06,399 --> 04:03:07,280 single-family homes 5242 04:03:07,280 --> 04:03:11,370 is that what you're saying okay okay that's all I wanted to 5243 04:03:11,370 --> 04:03:11,879 know thank you 5244 04:03:11,879 --> 04:03:14,200 sir 5245 04:03:17,399 --> 04:03:21,500 this is a public hearing and I'll do a final call anyone 5246 04:03:21,500 --> 04:03:22,440 else who would like to 5247 04:03:22,440 --> 04:03:27,030 speak on this item please come forward at this time anybody 5248 04:03:27,030 --> 04:03:29,079 else with that I 5249 04:03:29,079 --> 04:03:32,270 will close the public hearing and open the floor for 5250 04:03:32,270 --> 04:03:33,680 discussion or motion 5251 04:03:33,680 --> 04:03:40,680 Commissioner Smith motion to approve Z 18001 a the the the 5252 04:03:40,680 --> 04:03:41,440 amendment to the 5253 04:03:41,440 --> 04:03:43,979 razor ranch overlay district as the staff is provided with 5254 04:03:43,979 --> 04:03:44,760 recommendation 5255 04:03:44,760 --> 04:03:49,319 okay Commissioner back second all that okay we have a first 5256 04:03:49,319 --> 04:03:50,600 and a second for 5257 04:03:50,600 --> 04:03:54,920 approval first half recommendations Commissioner Ellis 5258 04:03:54,920 --> 04:03:56,040 thank you chair just a 5259 04:03:56,040 --> 04:03:59,079 quick comment thank you all for coming to speak I mean just 5260 04:03:59,079 --> 04:04:00,040 so you understand 5261 04:04:00,040 --> 04:04:02,920 what we're voting on it's an amendment to the razor ranch 5262 04:04:02,920 --> 04:04:04,079 overlay district to 5263 04:04:04,079 --> 04:04:07,959 establish these residential concepts the zoning is already 5264 04:04:07,959 --> 04:04:09,280 in place for this for 5265 04:04:09,280 --> 04:04:12,190 the single-family for the multifamily on the bottom so this 5266 04:04:12,190 --> 04:04:13,520 was to be able to get 5267 04:04:13,520 --> 04:04:17,260 their project going to establish the the criteria for for 5268 04:04:17,260 --> 04:04:18,760 the building standards 5269 04:04:18,760 --> 04:04:21,530 for them then they can move forward to a real site plan 5270 04:04:21,530 --> 04:04:22,719 which will come back 5271 04:04:22,719 --> 04:04:26,959 before us so stay engaged and and and watch for those 5272 04:04:26,959 --> 04:04:27,680 because you'll be able 5273 04:04:27,680 --> 04:04:31,280 to see the actual site plan instead of a concept at that 5274 04:04:31,280 --> 04:04:33,319 point going forward 5275 04:04:33,319 --> 04:04:36,530 Commissioner Smith thank you chair I should have asked here 5276 04:04:36,530 --> 04:04:37,200 in it that I 5277 04:04:37,200 --> 04:04:39,159 don't think there was a neighborhood meeting that was 5278 04:04:39,159 --> 04:04:40,360 conducted this is a 5279 04:04:40,360 --> 04:04:42,129 question for the applicant you don't have to respond I 5280 04:04:42,129 --> 04:04:42,760 would just make a 5281 04:04:42,760 --> 04:04:45,620 recommendation that after this is done as you guys move 5282 04:04:45,620 --> 04:04:46,920 forward in your project 5283 04:04:46,920 --> 04:04:49,739 to possibly discuss having a neighborhood meeting and 5284 04:04:49,739 --> 04:04:50,440 trying to get 5285 04:04:50,440 --> 04:04:53,819 answer a couple more questions there's not these this many 5286 04:04:53,819 --> 04:04:54,399 unknowns it's a 5287 04:04:54,399 --> 04:04:59,760 recommendation thank you good recommendation we do have a 5288 04:04:59,760 --> 04:05:00,479 first and a 5289 04:05:00,479 --> 04:05:04,399 second for approval any further discussion or comments we 5290 04:05:04,399 --> 04:05:05,000 call for a 5291 04:05:05,000 --> 04:05:12,659 vote on the board seeing none I'll call for a vote on board 5292 04:05:12,659 --> 04:05:18,399 motion carries six 5293 04:05:18,399 --> 04:05:29,659 to zero thank you all for coming out tonight that will move 5294 04:05:29,659 --> 04:05:32,280 us to item C on 5295 04:05:32,280 --> 04:05:36,549 our public hearings this evening this item has been 5296 04:05:36,549 --> 04:05:38,959 postponed indefinitely so 5297 04:05:38,959 --> 04:05:43,000 we will be taking no action on this item 5298 04:05:47,200 --> 04:05:51,389 that will move us to item D at this time I'm going to open 5299 04:05:51,389 --> 04:05:53,639 the public hearing for 5300 04:05:53,639 --> 04:05:59,280 Z 17 - 0 0 3 2 and the chair would entertain a motion 5301 04:05:59,280 --> 04:06:00,120 Commissioner Rozelle 5302 04:06:00,120 --> 04:06:03,750 I move to continue this item to a date certain of March 7 5303 04:06:03,750 --> 04:06:04,639 2018 5304 04:06:04,639 --> 04:06:09,200 Commissioner Smith I second that motion okay I'm a motion 5305 04:06:09,200 --> 04:06:10,520 to continue to date 5306 04:06:10,520 --> 04:06:16,969 certain March the 7th 2018 any further discussion seeing 5307 04:06:16,969 --> 04:06:18,280 none I'll call for a 5308 04:06:18,280 --> 04:06:23,000 vote on the board and this item will be left open publicly 5309 04:06:23,000 --> 04:06:28,120 that motion to 5310 04:06:28,120 --> 04:06:32,280 continue passes 6 to 0 and the item is still open we'll 5311 04:06:32,280 --> 04:06:35,280 move us to item E we'll 5312 04:06:35,280 --> 04:06:41,430 open the public hearing for fr 17 - 0 0 2 6 Commissioner 5313 04:06:41,430 --> 04:06:42,760 Smith motion to postpone 5314 04:06:42,760 --> 04:06:46,389 the item till date certain of March 21st 2018 okay 5315 04:06:46,389 --> 04:06:48,200 Commissioner Ellis second okay 5316 04:06:48,200 --> 04:06:51,620 we have a first and a second to continue the item dates 5317 04:06:51,620 --> 04:06:54,760 certain March 21st 2018 we 5318 04:06:54,760 --> 04:06:59,260 will leave the public hearing open and we'll call for a 5319 04:06:59,260 --> 04:07:00,719 vote on the board 5320 04:07:04,959 --> 04:07:10,729 motion carries 6 to 0 we'll move us to our item F and 5321 04:07:10,729 --> 04:07:12,000 before I open the public 5322 04:07:12,000 --> 04:07:16,090 hearing does anybody need to take a break are we okay to 5323 04:07:16,090 --> 04:07:18,239 continue take a 5324 04:07:18,239 --> 04:07:21,239 break or continue 5325 04:07:23,479 --> 04:07:27,329 okay we'll slip out the side if you need it at this time I 5326 04:07:27,329 --> 04:07:29,159 'm going to open the 5327 04:07:29,159 --> 04:07:35,030 public hearing for DCA 17 - 0 0 1 1 and we'll call on 5328 04:07:35,030 --> 04:07:36,280 Deborah Viera for 5329 04:07:36,280 --> 04:07:38,799 presentation 5330 04:07:53,479 --> 04:08:09,719 good evening Commission this is a continuance from the 5331 04:08:09,719 --> 04:08:11,120 public hearing 5332 04:08:11,120 --> 04:08:16,250 started on February 7 for the proposed revisions to sub 5333 04:08:16,250 --> 04:08:19,360 chapter 17 staff have 5334 04:08:19,360 --> 04:08:21,739 gone through the major changes during the last public 5335 04:08:21,739 --> 04:08:22,799 hearing I don't know if 5336 04:08:22,799 --> 04:08:26,500 you want me to go over those again last time that we met we 5337 04:08:26,500 --> 04:08:27,920 continue we continue 5338 04:08:27,920 --> 04:08:32,959 the meeting to allow for public input to to be answered 5339 04:08:32,959 --> 04:08:35,200 those documents have been 5340 04:08:35,200 --> 04:08:39,850 provided to you as a part of our recommendation we are rev 5341 04:08:39,850 --> 04:08:41,479 ising 20 items 5342 04:08:41,479 --> 04:08:46,520 listed on the public comment to address public concern and 5343 04:08:46,520 --> 04:08:48,200 to add clarity to the 5344 04:08:48,200 --> 04:08:53,590 document staff is available to answer any questions that 5345 04:08:53,590 --> 04:08:55,280 you may have 5346 04:09:03,040 --> 04:09:04,010 I think we may not have been prepared so for your 5347 04:09:04,010 --> 04:09:08,079 presentations any questions 5348 04:09:08,079 --> 04:09:17,350 none Commissioner Roselle at the risk of throwing a kink in 5349 04:09:17,350 --> 04:09:20,000 this I was curious 5350 04:09:20,000 --> 04:09:27,299 about the idea of an alternative ESA being specific to the 5351 04:09:27,299 --> 04:09:29,520 actual protected 5352 04:09:29,520 --> 04:09:32,809 habitat because it seems like in my estimation like an up 5353 04:09:32,809 --> 04:09:34,399 land habitat might 5354 04:09:34,399 --> 04:09:38,739 be easier to define a mitigation requirement versus a wet 5355 04:09:38,739 --> 04:09:39,799 land habitat 5356 04:09:39,799 --> 04:09:43,309 where there might be a multitude of things going on that 5357 04:09:43,309 --> 04:09:44,440 you would want to 5358 04:09:44,440 --> 04:09:47,620 mitigate for whether it's drainage or actual foliage or 5359 04:09:47,620 --> 04:09:49,700 things like that the 5360 04:09:49,700 --> 04:09:53,639 way the the codes written though all the alternative 5361 04:09:53,639 --> 04:10:02,799 options are in 17.11 so 5362 04:10:02,799 --> 04:10:05,969 maybe this is not even feasible but I just curious to know 5363 04:10:05,969 --> 04:10:08,159 if it's possible to 5364 04:10:08,159 --> 04:10:12,079 to try to find a compromise between chairs point of finding 5365 04:10:12,079 --> 04:10:13,159 black and white 5366 04:10:13,159 --> 04:10:16,989 in this process and Commissioner Ellis's point of an 5367 04:10:16,989 --> 04:10:18,639 organic process if there's a 5368 04:10:18,639 --> 04:10:24,469 way to compromise and find ways in which some essays are 5369 04:10:24,469 --> 04:10:27,360 are more black and white 5370 04:10:27,360 --> 04:10:30,610 in terms of mitigation trees for instance verse wetlands so 5371 04:10:30,610 --> 04:10:31,280 I'd love to 5372 04:10:31,280 --> 04:10:33,600 know your thoughts on trying to accomplish something like 5373 04:10:33,600 --> 04:10:34,479 that if it is 5374 04:10:34,479 --> 04:10:39,079 the Commission desire you can establish for upland habitat 5375 04:10:39,079 --> 04:10:40,879 any specific criteria 5376 04:10:40,879 --> 04:10:46,729 the things that we need to think about is we're going to 5377 04:10:46,729 --> 04:10:48,719 mitigate let's say 5378 04:10:48,719 --> 04:10:54,790 that we go a ratio for every stream remove how many trees 5379 04:10:54,790 --> 04:10:55,680 are we going to 5380 04:10:55,680 --> 04:10:59,479 do based on trees number of trees are we're going to do 5381 04:10:59,479 --> 04:11:00,799 based on canopy are 5382 04:11:00,799 --> 04:11:06,090 we're going to do based on DBH so just there are different 5383 04:11:06,090 --> 04:11:09,399 ways to go by when 5384 04:11:09,399 --> 04:11:12,690 we do an assessment of the upland habitat we look into the 5385 04:11:12,690 --> 04:11:13,520 species that 5386 04:11:13,520 --> 04:11:17,950 they're going making up that that tree stand and we also 5387 04:11:17,950 --> 04:11:19,040 look into the 5388 04:11:19,040 --> 04:11:22,559 understory it under certain is as important as the tree 5389 04:11:22,559 --> 04:11:26,239 itself so staff 5390 04:11:26,239 --> 04:11:30,250 would like to see some preferences to the protection of the 5391 04:11:30,250 --> 04:11:31,639 understory and to 5392 04:11:31,639 --> 04:11:35,799 the mitigation of the understory not only tree to tree 5393 04:11:35,799 --> 04:11:37,559 ratio something like 5394 04:11:37,559 --> 04:11:42,959 that so if that could be incorporated into your 5395 04:11:42,959 --> 04:11:45,840 recommendation for a criteria 5396 04:11:45,840 --> 04:11:54,049 for upland habitat that would be great I think it's helpful 5397 04:11:54,049 --> 04:11:54,799 to kind of get 5398 04:11:54,799 --> 04:11:57,879 guidance on that another question I have that's somewhat 5399 04:11:57,879 --> 04:12:00,159 related is to kosher 5400 04:12:00,159 --> 04:12:05,270 Sanchez's point about fragmentation is it my am I correct 5401 04:12:05,270 --> 04:12:06,360 understanding that 5402 04:12:06,360 --> 04:12:11,440 for an upland habitat if there's ten acres of contiguous 5403 04:12:11,440 --> 04:12:14,639 the tree tree stand 5404 04:12:14,639 --> 04:12:20,750 yes it's possible to separate that those ten acres for the 5405 04:12:20,750 --> 04:12:21,399 development and 5406 04:12:21,399 --> 04:12:25,719 actually separate that contiguous into two potential or 5407 04:12:25,719 --> 04:12:27,360 multiple potential tree 5408 04:12:27,360 --> 04:12:35,639 smaller tree stands that correct correct right now on okay 5409 04:12:35,639 --> 04:12:40,200 17.9 a item one for 5410 04:12:40,200 --> 04:12:44,659 example it talks about preservation of upland habitat 5411 04:12:44,659 --> 04:12:46,139 continues to forested 5412 04:12:46,139 --> 04:12:50,229 areas and adjacent properties on parcel is strongly 5413 04:12:50,229 --> 04:12:52,280 encouraged so at this point 5414 04:12:52,280 --> 04:12:56,370 it is a recommendation to keep them contiguous we would 5415 04:12:56,370 --> 04:12:57,680 like to do that we 5416 04:12:57,680 --> 04:13:02,639 prefer to see that if this is something that if the last 5417 04:13:02,639 --> 04:13:03,479 sentence that is 5418 04:13:03,479 --> 04:13:07,290 something that you want to modify and make it a requirement 5419 04:13:07,290 --> 04:13:08,319 that is also an 5420 04:13:08,319 --> 04:13:15,620 option for you I'm not necessarily in favor of that I'm 5421 04:13:15,620 --> 04:13:17,280 more thinking about if 5422 04:13:17,280 --> 04:13:20,659 you have ten acres and then it does get separated or 5423 04:13:20,659 --> 04:13:22,959 chopped down what is the 5424 04:13:22,959 --> 04:13:27,909 actual value of the upland habitat that's left because it 5425 04:13:27,909 --> 04:13:28,920 seems to me and 5426 04:13:28,920 --> 04:13:33,260 I'll defer to kosher Sanchez's expertise on this but if you 5427 04:13:33,260 --> 04:13:33,520 have ten 5428 04:13:33,520 --> 04:13:37,149 acres and you can take 50% of that potentially for 5429 04:13:37,149 --> 04:13:38,399 residential so you have 5430 04:13:38,399 --> 04:13:43,520 five acres of encouraged together but not be together is 5431 04:13:43,520 --> 04:13:46,280 that five acres even 5432 04:13:46,280 --> 04:13:50,629 I hate to say worth it but is there there's not an upland 5433 04:13:50,629 --> 04:13:51,799 habitat anymore 5434 04:13:51,799 --> 04:13:54,780 because it's less than ten acres so I'm curious about just 5435 04:13:54,780 --> 04:13:55,719 the thought process 5436 04:13:55,719 --> 04:14:01,079 of once you even invite an alternative ESA into the picture 5437 04:14:01,079 --> 04:14:03,159 what environmental 5438 04:14:03,159 --> 04:14:06,190 mentally sensitive areas is even left it seems like it 5439 04:14:06,190 --> 04:14:07,239 deteriorate pretty 5440 04:14:07,239 --> 04:14:11,489 quickly once you actually aggravate the beginning of it and 5441 04:14:11,489 --> 04:14:12,239 I don't necessarily 5442 04:14:12,239 --> 04:14:15,870 have any direction to go on that I'm just I'm concerned 5443 04:14:15,870 --> 04:14:17,719 about the actual 5444 04:14:17,719 --> 04:14:23,489 impact if we allow for the ESA's to be disturbed it seems 5445 04:14:23,489 --> 04:14:23,920 like it'd be a 5446 04:14:23,920 --> 04:14:27,530 cascading effect of damage to the understory and everything 5447 04:14:27,530 --> 04:14:28,280 else when those 5448 04:14:28,280 --> 04:14:33,280 when the concentration continues to shrink in such a way 5449 04:14:33,280 --> 04:14:34,399 the smaller you 5450 04:14:34,399 --> 04:14:40,479 make the tree stand the more stress you put on the habitat 5451 04:14:40,479 --> 04:14:44,639 itself without getting 5452 04:14:44,639 --> 04:14:51,110 into too much technicality here the more you the more edges 5453 04:14:51,110 --> 04:14:52,479 you add to the 5454 04:14:52,479 --> 04:14:57,879 habitat the more friction and changes you will have okay so 5455 04:14:57,879 --> 04:14:59,440 definitely we would 5456 04:14:59,440 --> 04:15:02,649 like to maintain the integrity of the upland habitat as 5457 04:15:02,649 --> 04:15:04,319 much as possible and 5458 04:15:04,319 --> 04:15:09,920 that's why the we strongly encourage to be contiguous 5459 04:15:09,920 --> 04:15:11,200 because we don't want to 5460 04:15:11,200 --> 04:15:17,399 keep adding edges to it the alternative ESA plan provide us 5461 04:15:17,399 --> 04:15:18,360 at least an 5462 04:15:18,360 --> 04:15:22,350 opportunity to have the type of discussion about where to 5463 04:15:22,350 --> 04:15:23,159 leave that 5464 04:15:23,159 --> 04:15:30,870 area so minimizing those edges were more interaction and 5465 04:15:30,870 --> 04:15:34,040 more chances for pressure 5466 04:15:34,040 --> 04:15:38,469 to the habitat could happen so the alternative ESA plan it 5467 04:15:38,469 --> 04:15:39,040 is just an 5468 04:15:39,040 --> 04:15:43,469 opportunity to have that kind of discussion that we don't 5469 04:15:43,469 --> 04:15:44,120 have if you 5470 04:15:44,120 --> 04:15:47,840 just follow the code I really appreciate that because you 5471 04:15:47,840 --> 04:15:49,239 brought up a good point 5472 04:15:49,239 --> 04:15:52,229 that I hope Christian Ellis I agree with you on her point 5473 04:15:52,229 --> 04:15:55,479 just now in that the 5474 04:15:55,479 --> 04:15:58,530 invitation to have a discussion where those trees are if we 5475 04:15:58,530 --> 04:15:59,280 if we do have a 5476 04:15:59,280 --> 04:16:01,950 black and white mitigation process I wonder if we even have 5477 04:16:01,950 --> 04:16:02,879 that opportunity 5478 04:16:02,879 --> 04:16:07,309 to encourage development in certain areas with the feedback 5479 04:16:07,309 --> 04:16:08,159 of the property 5480 04:16:08,159 --> 04:16:15,049 owner so that food for thought thank you Commissioner San 5481 04:16:15,049 --> 04:16:17,760 chez oh that's all right 5482 04:16:17,760 --> 04:16:24,000 yes for my question yes the question was okay just to 5483 04:16:24,000 --> 04:16:25,559 follow up on Commissioner 5484 04:16:25,559 --> 04:16:29,360 Roselle's question it does city determine where those areas 5485 04:16:29,360 --> 04:16:29,879 are is it 5486 04:16:29,879 --> 04:16:32,479 the property owner that just determines those at the end of 5487 04:16:32,479 --> 04:16:33,559 the day it is that 5488 04:16:33,559 --> 04:16:39,639 the property owner we we encourage we like to find reasons 5489 04:16:39,639 --> 04:16:41,360 when somebody comes 5490 04:16:41,360 --> 04:16:45,329 with a site plan we look into possible issues the other 5491 04:16:45,329 --> 04:16:46,799 thing very important it 5492 04:16:46,799 --> 04:16:50,430 is upland habitat could be used to meet tree coat 5493 04:16:50,430 --> 04:16:52,520 requirements so the larger the 5494 04:16:52,520 --> 04:16:59,329 trees the higher the price to replace through the tree coat 5495 04:16:59,329 --> 04:17:00,479 so most of that 5496 04:17:00,479 --> 04:17:05,479 that is also considered at the time you know it they also 5497 04:17:05,479 --> 04:17:06,319 look into the 5498 04:17:06,319 --> 04:17:11,639 financial component of it I always recommend to have a good 5499 04:17:11,639 --> 04:17:12,959 mix of big 5500 04:17:12,959 --> 04:17:17,430 trees but also younger trees because all big trees they're 5501 04:17:17,430 --> 04:17:19,000 mature and eventually 5502 04:17:19,000 --> 04:17:22,920 they die so even though we would place a special value to 5503 04:17:22,920 --> 04:17:23,920 those trees how 5504 04:17:23,920 --> 04:17:28,350 beautiful they are we also want to continue it is so during 5505 04:17:28,350 --> 04:17:29,000 discussion with 5506 04:17:29,000 --> 04:17:33,139 staff we always told the applicant look into providing a 5507 04:17:33,139 --> 04:17:35,159 variety of sizes so 5508 04:17:35,159 --> 04:17:42,819 your area would keep going longer so all those aspects are 5509 04:17:42,819 --> 04:17:44,040 considered when we are 5510 04:17:44,040 --> 04:17:48,350 reviewing alternative ESA plans and when we would discuss 5511 04:17:48,350 --> 04:17:49,360 it with the applicant 5512 04:17:49,360 --> 04:18:00,629 as well I have several comments number one I appreciate the 5513 04:18:00,629 --> 04:18:01,840 time and effort 5514 04:18:01,840 --> 04:18:06,409 that's gone through the the list of questions that have 5515 04:18:06,409 --> 04:18:07,719 been posed and then 5516 04:18:07,719 --> 04:18:12,479 the responses that have been given and the options have the 5517 04:18:12,479 --> 04:18:14,639 responses to these 5518 04:18:14,639 --> 04:18:17,799 questions have they been incorporated into the order and 5519 04:18:17,799 --> 04:18:18,760 sure you need 5520 04:18:18,760 --> 04:18:22,229 direction from us to do that if we want to take action on 5521 04:18:22,229 --> 04:18:24,399 any of those staff has 5522 04:18:24,399 --> 04:18:28,290 made has proposed to make some changes as listed on the 5523 04:18:28,290 --> 04:18:28,840 response on their 5524 04:18:28,840 --> 04:18:35,879 response column they are total 20 amendments total if you 5525 04:18:35,879 --> 04:18:37,280 are okay with 5526 04:18:37,280 --> 04:18:40,489 the language as proposed I would like to incorporate that 5527 04:18:40,489 --> 04:18:44,440 into the motion so 5528 04:18:44,440 --> 04:18:48,360 none of the comments at least at this time have come I'm a 5529 04:18:48,360 --> 04:18:49,680 little somewhat 5530 04:18:49,680 --> 04:18:52,559 confused I will make sure we're all on the same page the 5531 04:18:52,559 --> 04:18:53,479 ordinance that we have 5532 04:18:53,479 --> 04:18:57,000 to vote on tonight is the same one that was two weeks ago 5533 04:18:57,000 --> 04:18:59,159 correct the comments 5534 04:18:59,159 --> 04:19:06,020 that have been made by staff as the responses to the public 5535 04:19:06,020 --> 04:19:07,559 input have not 5536 04:19:07,559 --> 04:19:10,440 been brought into the ordinance of yet so the ordinance 5537 04:19:10,440 --> 04:19:11,639 that we have to vote on 5538 04:19:11,639 --> 04:19:14,989 if we've made no changes whatsoever as is the same one from 5539 04:19:14,989 --> 04:19:16,120 two weeks ago so 5540 04:19:16,120 --> 04:19:19,750 in order to add any of these change we have to make a 5541 04:19:19,750 --> 04:19:21,159 motion to put those in 5542 04:19:21,159 --> 04:19:24,840 correct and then any of the other things that we talked 5543 04:19:24,840 --> 04:19:25,959 about in work session 5544 04:19:25,959 --> 04:19:30,799 about defining terms or 50% or any of those things all that 5545 04:19:30,799 --> 04:19:31,600 has to be 5546 04:19:31,600 --> 04:19:36,530 incorporated into the ordinance as well kind of as and then 5547 04:19:36,530 --> 04:19:38,079 as y'all to take it 5548 04:19:38,079 --> 04:19:43,149 on and move forward versus having giving direction to have 5549 04:19:43,149 --> 04:19:44,200 that and come back 5550 04:19:44,200 --> 04:19:46,680 know this is the clean ordinance all the changes are made 5551 04:19:46,680 --> 04:19:47,559 it's ready for you guys 5552 04:19:47,559 --> 04:19:52,920 take it to city council correct so either or you can do it 5553 04:19:52,920 --> 04:19:53,760 what we have 5554 04:19:53,760 --> 04:19:56,579 discussed during the work session if I'm not mistaken you 5555 04:19:56,579 --> 04:19:57,360 're okay with the 5556 04:19:57,360 --> 04:20:00,920 definition of wetlands and you are okay with the definition 5557 04:20:00,920 --> 04:20:02,559 of open habitat so 5558 04:20:02,559 --> 04:20:06,879 those would be also incorporated plus the 50% to clarify 5559 04:20:06,879 --> 04:20:08,000 what significant 5560 04:20:08,000 --> 04:20:15,479 native water related habitat is so we will add those okay 5561 04:20:15,479 --> 04:20:16,719 the other question 5562 04:20:16,719 --> 04:20:21,290 that I know I ask in work session and I know I had posed it 5563 04:20:21,290 --> 04:20:23,639 earlier what is the 5564 04:20:23,639 --> 04:20:27,379 suggestion that you that you all have if we're trying to 5565 04:20:27,379 --> 04:20:28,680 move this forward 5566 04:20:28,680 --> 04:20:32,959 tonight or whether we want to and it's commissions not just 5567 04:20:32,959 --> 04:20:33,559 mine and 5568 04:20:33,559 --> 04:20:36,659 commissions purview to do that have it go back and cleaned 5569 04:20:36,659 --> 04:20:38,040 up about the phase one 5570 04:20:38,040 --> 04:20:43,579 to be able to have what we put in our ordinance somehow 5571 04:20:43,579 --> 04:20:45,040 where it's accessible 5572 04:20:45,040 --> 04:20:50,270 that people can find it and it's all that in work session 5573 04:20:50,270 --> 04:20:51,120 so I don't go 5574 04:20:51,120 --> 04:20:54,729 through it all again here how do we solve that problem the 5575 04:20:54,729 --> 04:20:55,239 phase one 5576 04:20:55,239 --> 04:21:00,569 situation staff will have to to research what avenues are 5577 04:21:00,569 --> 04:21:01,879 to put that type of 5578 04:21:01,879 --> 04:21:05,959 information out just keep in mind from a hierarchical step 5579 04:21:05,959 --> 04:21:06,840 for you have the 5580 04:21:06,840 --> 04:21:10,010 federal which is court of engineers FEMA and such then you 5581 04:21:10,010 --> 04:21:11,760 have the state DCQ 5582 04:21:11,760 --> 04:21:17,239 and then later the city most of the time work things work 5583 04:21:17,239 --> 04:21:19,000 from federal to city 5584 04:21:19,000 --> 04:21:23,709 but not from city to federal so we will have to find ways 5585 04:21:23,709 --> 04:21:25,840 to actually make the 5586 04:21:25,840 --> 04:21:31,239 ESA map make the ESA regulations more readable available 5587 04:21:31,239 --> 04:21:33,200 out there we can look 5588 04:21:33,200 --> 04:21:40,180 into look for more regional venues to do that like cog and 5589 04:21:40,180 --> 04:21:41,239 other venues where 5590 04:21:41,239 --> 04:21:46,299 many people actually use those resources so let us explore 5591 04:21:46,299 --> 04:21:48,200 those options I don't 5592 04:21:48,200 --> 04:21:51,829 have a definite answer for you I understand the need for it 5593 04:21:51,829 --> 04:21:54,459 the more the 5594 04:21:54,459 --> 04:21:59,409 more clear and available it is everybody will benefit from 5595 04:21:59,409 --> 04:22:00,639 it we can start looking 5596 04:22:00,639 --> 04:22:06,709 into definitely maybe doing something in our web page or 5597 04:22:06,709 --> 04:22:07,399 something like that that 5598 04:22:07,399 --> 04:22:12,649 is not so buried into you know layers and layers of clicks 5599 04:22:12,649 --> 04:22:13,920 to be able to reach 5600 04:22:13,920 --> 04:22:19,360 that so let us work on that I don't have a strategy but 5601 04:22:19,360 --> 04:22:22,440 whatever we can whatever 5602 04:22:22,440 --> 04:22:26,319 opportunity we have to actually put that information out 5603 04:22:26,319 --> 04:22:29,000 there it is it is we will 5604 04:22:29,000 --> 04:22:33,450 try that that is not the only one when it comes down to 5605 04:22:33,450 --> 04:22:34,920 ease us flower mounds 5606 04:22:34,920 --> 04:22:39,170 have something similar to it so I'm expecting that other 5607 04:22:39,170 --> 04:22:40,000 cities will 5608 04:22:40,000 --> 04:22:45,170 actually start looking to it and as scientists perform 5609 04:22:45,170 --> 04:22:47,000 those studies they 5610 04:22:47,000 --> 04:22:52,479 they become available you know to check with us and staff 5611 04:22:52,479 --> 04:22:54,520 will keep educating 5612 04:22:54,520 --> 04:23:02,059 our our applicants so whenever they come they know I think 5613 04:23:02,059 --> 04:23:03,479 that's great and I'd 5614 04:23:03,479 --> 04:23:07,760 love to see that if I could make a similar suggestion I 5615 04:23:07,760 --> 04:23:09,399 have in the past 5616 04:23:09,399 --> 04:23:12,319 would staff entertained reaching out to companies that 5617 04:23:12,319 --> 04:23:13,680 actually do the phase one 5618 04:23:13,680 --> 04:23:18,110 reports to say what's the industry standard where do you 5619 04:23:18,110 --> 04:23:19,079 all go to go pull 5620 04:23:19,079 --> 04:23:24,030 your data and do your research if it's geo whatever this is 5621 04:23:24,030 --> 04:23:25,440 has on it hey here 5622 04:23:25,440 --> 04:23:30,709 are the four national state whatever they are websites that 5623 04:23:30,709 --> 04:23:31,879 we go and we look 5624 04:23:31,879 --> 04:23:36,020 at to your point national state how does it the city of 5625 04:23:36,020 --> 04:23:37,479 Denton add theirs to 5626 04:23:37,479 --> 04:23:41,920 those websites and so instead of us to your point trying to 5627 04:23:41,920 --> 04:23:43,319 create something 5628 04:23:43,319 --> 04:23:46,500 go to the people that actually produce the reports and say 5629 04:23:46,500 --> 04:23:47,399 give us the four or 5630 04:23:47,399 --> 04:23:50,549 five places you guys go and pull the data down and then 5631 04:23:50,549 --> 04:23:51,719 come back to us and 5632 04:23:51,719 --> 04:23:54,500 say city Denton is going to be a partner and our data will 5633 04:23:54,500 --> 04:23:55,760 be available in this 5634 04:23:55,760 --> 04:23:58,600 same database that everybody goes to pull all this 5635 04:23:58,600 --> 04:24:00,239 environmental information 5636 04:24:00,239 --> 04:24:04,719 from them that might be a suggestion also to entertain is 5637 04:24:04,719 --> 04:24:05,920 to how do we get 5638 04:24:05,920 --> 04:24:09,079 our information out there so everybody is aware of it yeah 5639 04:24:09,079 --> 04:24:11,959 we can we can pull 5640 04:24:11,959 --> 04:24:16,959 our applicants for open record requests who have submitted 5641 04:24:16,959 --> 04:24:18,360 one says geo search 5642 04:24:18,360 --> 04:24:22,790 okay it's got gobs of pages of geo search so there's 5643 04:24:22,790 --> 04:24:23,600 probably multiple 5644 04:24:23,600 --> 04:24:28,549 ones okay and I think that's a from that would satisfy my 5645 04:24:28,549 --> 04:24:30,360 concern is get it to 5646 04:24:30,360 --> 04:24:35,690 where people can find it that's one of my one of my other 5647 04:24:35,690 --> 04:24:38,399 ones and then the 5648 04:24:38,399 --> 04:24:42,670 final point that we talked about in work session is and I 5649 04:24:42,670 --> 04:24:43,879 think we've talked 5650 04:24:43,879 --> 04:24:48,719 about a little bit here is to try to get the process to 5651 04:24:48,719 --> 04:24:51,520 where it is not quite so 5652 04:24:51,520 --> 04:24:57,329 much of a politically arbitrary one to more of a Harrison 5653 04:24:57,329 --> 04:24:58,680 defined standards and 5654 04:24:58,680 --> 04:25:01,620 it becomes a little more of a certainty if that's possible 5655 04:25:01,620 --> 04:25:02,979 it may not be and we 5656 04:25:02,979 --> 04:25:05,860 talked about several different ideas and work session and 5657 04:25:05,860 --> 04:25:06,579 those would be 5658 04:25:06,579 --> 04:25:10,100 something else that I'd like to see if we're going to 5659 04:25:10,100 --> 04:25:11,159 revise this that that 5660 04:25:11,159 --> 04:25:14,579 when it comes back before us or move it forward with all 5661 04:25:14,579 --> 04:25:15,879 this stuff put in it 5662 04:25:15,879 --> 04:25:20,069 tonight that we add that in if possible I don't know if 5663 04:25:20,069 --> 04:25:21,479 anybody else has 5664 04:25:21,479 --> 04:25:27,549 additional comments because if not I'm gonna go to the next 5665 04:25:27,549 --> 04:25:30,920 cards for public 5666 04:25:30,920 --> 04:25:41,959 okay thank you Deborah for your proposal I do have a card 5667 04:25:41,959 --> 04:25:42,760 we should speak Kim 5668 04:25:42,760 --> 04:25:52,299 McKeegan 1306 West Hickory in opposition my name is Kim Mc 5669 04:25:52,299 --> 04:25:54,840 Keegan 1306 West 5670 04:25:54,840 --> 04:25:59,280 Hickory here in Denton I am sorry that I am the only person 5671 04:25:59,280 --> 04:26:01,000 from the public here 5672 04:26:01,000 --> 04:26:04,629 to talk to you about this this evening I think that the 5673 04:26:04,629 --> 04:26:06,040 environmentally sensitive 5674 04:26:06,040 --> 04:26:09,340 areas that you've identified that you're trying to deal 5675 04:26:09,340 --> 04:26:10,840 with are just that they're 5676 04:26:10,840 --> 04:26:16,319 very sensitive things I think that it needs to be truly 5677 04:26:16,319 --> 04:26:17,440 understand that it's 5678 04:26:17,440 --> 04:26:20,649 not just because we want to keep the trees so that the 5679 04:26:20,649 --> 04:26:21,799 birds will have a 5680 04:26:21,799 --> 04:26:25,180 place to land it's not just because we want to keep the 5681 04:26:25,180 --> 04:26:26,639 stream so a species of 5682 04:26:26,639 --> 04:26:31,200 salamander will be there these areas are what purify your 5683 04:26:31,200 --> 04:26:33,319 air they are your 5684 04:26:33,319 --> 04:26:37,649 buffer between your residential sections and your water 5685 04:26:37,649 --> 04:26:39,920 supply please remember 5686 04:26:39,920 --> 04:26:43,700 that if you are allowing someone to encroach upon something 5687 04:26:43,700 --> 04:26:44,600 that has been 5688 04:26:44,600 --> 04:26:48,940 identified as an environmentally sensitive area I mean they 5689 04:26:48,940 --> 04:26:49,479 're that for a 5690 04:26:49,479 --> 04:26:52,629 reason it's not just because they're pretty or they've got 5691 04:26:52,629 --> 04:26:53,440 a certain type of 5692 04:26:53,440 --> 04:26:56,959 plant that grows there sometimes they are but usually in a 5693 04:26:56,959 --> 04:26:57,920 inside the city 5694 04:26:57,920 --> 04:27:01,440 limits you're protecting your drainage water which is going 5695 04:27:01,440 --> 04:27:02,479 right back into 5696 04:27:02,479 --> 04:27:05,540 your drinking water and by the way I live downstream so I 5697 04:27:05,540 --> 04:27:06,680 am concerned about 5698 04:27:06,680 --> 04:27:11,260 that so when you talk about the development and personal 5699 04:27:11,260 --> 04:27:12,360 property owners 5700 04:27:12,360 --> 04:27:16,100 and things along those lines and their rights we're not 5701 04:27:16,100 --> 04:27:17,600 talking about a tree 5702 04:27:17,600 --> 04:27:20,979 ordinance so much when you talk about environmentally 5703 04:27:20,979 --> 04:27:22,440 sensitive areas you are 5704 04:27:22,440 --> 04:27:28,719 talking about an identified area that somehow buffers us 5705 04:27:28,719 --> 04:27:31,120 between our water our 5706 04:27:31,120 --> 04:27:35,930 air and other things like that yes and didn't they have 5707 04:27:35,930 --> 04:27:37,920 been overlooked they've 5708 04:27:37,920 --> 04:27:42,959 been abused they've been used some that I don't I will 5709 04:27:42,959 --> 04:27:45,760 never understand and 5710 04:27:45,760 --> 04:27:48,790 maybe it'll be the Corps of Engineers that find some of 5711 04:27:48,790 --> 04:27:49,840 those people for 5712 04:27:49,840 --> 04:27:52,899 pollution of some of those areas later down the line but 5713 04:27:52,899 --> 04:27:54,600 please as you look at 5714 04:27:54,600 --> 04:27:58,840 these things in and it's I'm sorry it's not black and white 5715 04:27:58,840 --> 04:28:01,399 you can't say this 5716 04:28:01,399 --> 04:28:04,690 can be traded for this in a lot of cases because of the 5717 04:28:04,690 --> 04:28:06,440 history of the land in 5718 04:28:06,440 --> 04:28:10,159 where we live I mean when the Spaniards got here they said 5719 04:28:10,159 --> 04:28:10,959 it was totally 5720 04:28:10,959 --> 04:28:14,010 unusable you couldn't walk through it you couldn't write a 5721 04:28:14,010 --> 04:28:14,639 horse through it 5722 04:28:14,639 --> 04:28:18,870 because of all the post oaks and that understory so what we 5723 04:28:18,870 --> 04:28:20,760 have now in some 5724 04:28:20,760 --> 04:28:26,129 areas are just very small tidbits of other things like the 5725 04:28:26,129 --> 04:28:27,680 upland the woodlands 5726 04:28:27,680 --> 04:28:33,440 upland trees that that those tree stands are limited you 5727 04:28:33,440 --> 04:28:36,079 cannot slice them up it's 5728 04:28:36,079 --> 04:28:39,440 the understory as much as the trees themselves so you have 5729 04:28:39,440 --> 04:28:40,479 those things to 5730 04:28:40,479 --> 04:28:43,829 take into consideration so when someone comes before you or 5731 04:28:43,829 --> 04:28:44,600 as you're trying to 5732 04:28:44,600 --> 04:28:47,700 develop language for these things please be aware that they 5733 04:28:47,700 --> 04:28:49,040 're declared sensitive 5734 04:28:49,040 --> 04:28:55,250 areas for a reason and if you can keep away from them leave 5735 04:28:55,250 --> 04:28:56,559 them alone don't 5736 04:28:56,559 --> 04:29:00,079 split them up work with the property owners work with the 5737 04:29:00,079 --> 04:29:01,239 business people if 5738 04:29:01,239 --> 04:29:03,870 they'll put it on this side of the property instead of that 5739 04:29:03,870 --> 04:29:04,440 side of the 5740 04:29:04,440 --> 04:29:08,760 property can the city offer them anything we said in works 5741 04:29:08,760 --> 04:29:09,319 or you said in 5742 04:29:09,319 --> 04:29:12,700 work sessions that the city doesn't want them the 5743 04:29:12,700 --> 04:29:13,879 developers don't want them 5744 04:29:13,879 --> 04:29:16,760 nobody wants to take care of them maybe we need to look at 5745 04:29:16,760 --> 04:29:17,879 that as a city about 5746 04:29:17,879 --> 04:29:22,829 what we can do please if you don't understand what you're 5747 04:29:22,829 --> 04:29:23,639 what you're 5748 04:29:23,639 --> 04:29:27,319 pushing forward through and what you're setting as a 5749 04:29:27,319 --> 04:29:29,639 precedent put this off get 5750 04:29:29,639 --> 04:29:35,000 some more information so like I said I apologize that I'm 5751 04:29:35,000 --> 04:29:36,040 the only one here I 5752 04:29:36,040 --> 04:29:38,510 originally came to planning and zoning to learn about a 5753 04:29:38,510 --> 04:29:40,000 tree ordinance and I've 5754 04:29:40,000 --> 04:29:44,100 been here now for what four years on and off so please take 5755 04:29:44,100 --> 04:29:45,879 take this take what 5756 04:29:45,879 --> 04:29:49,020 you're about to do very seriously thank you I have some 5757 04:29:49,020 --> 04:29:50,079 questions for you 5758 04:29:50,079 --> 04:29:52,649 number one I want to tell you it's almost nine and you've 5759 04:29:52,649 --> 04:29:53,559 been here since I 5760 04:29:53,559 --> 04:29:56,450 think about four so appreciate you I did I came for the 5761 04:29:56,450 --> 04:29:57,719 work session appreciate 5762 04:29:57,719 --> 04:30:02,149 you being a tough it out and staying for the whole thing 5763 04:30:02,149 --> 04:30:05,280 how would you we may have 5764 04:30:05,280 --> 04:30:08,680 some areas we disagree maybe we have some that we agree on 5765 04:30:08,680 --> 04:30:15,190 do you propose or think it's fair to to your point those 5766 04:30:15,190 --> 04:30:15,840 areas that are 5767 04:30:15,840 --> 04:30:18,899 environments that are better benefit everybody but they're 5768 04:30:18,899 --> 04:30:19,840 on one person's 5769 04:30:19,840 --> 04:30:24,790 property how is it equitable for that person to bear the 5770 04:30:24,790 --> 04:30:27,159 burden of that for 5771 04:30:27,159 --> 04:30:32,799 the good of the community well it depends and I don't have 5772 04:30:32,799 --> 04:30:33,319 a straightforward 5773 04:30:33,319 --> 04:30:36,739 answer for you that for that for you I don't know if it's 5774 04:30:36,739 --> 04:30:37,719 the individuals 5775 04:30:37,719 --> 04:30:40,159 responsibility to bear that burden or if it is the 5776 04:30:40,159 --> 04:30:41,840 community's responsibility to 5777 04:30:41,840 --> 04:30:46,000 bear that burden I would agree with you there if if I'm 5778 04:30:46,000 --> 04:30:46,879 going to buy a piece of 5779 04:30:46,879 --> 04:30:50,840 property and my people doing my phase one stuff have done a 5780 04:30:50,840 --> 04:30:52,040 thorough vetted 5781 04:30:52,040 --> 04:30:55,860 search I'm gonna know that I'm about to buy a piece of 5782 04:30:55,860 --> 04:30:58,079 property that on the 5783 04:30:58,079 --> 04:31:01,799 east side of the west side drains into Lake Louisville and 5784 04:31:01,799 --> 04:31:02,920 I can't put anything 5785 04:31:02,920 --> 04:31:05,870 down there because that's where all the rest of the 5786 04:31:05,870 --> 04:31:07,399 community drains through 5787 04:31:07,399 --> 04:31:11,739 and that's the filter zone or I can't cut down all the 5788 04:31:11,739 --> 04:31:13,559 understory between my 5789 04:31:13,559 --> 04:31:15,600 house and the Corps of Engineers Lake because it's 5790 04:31:15,600 --> 04:31:16,840 environmentally sensitive 5791 04:31:16,840 --> 04:31:21,120 area people have to be aware of what they're getting into 5792 04:31:21,120 --> 04:31:21,760 like you've said 5793 04:31:21,760 --> 04:31:24,389 before it's not like we're going out and creating these 5794 04:31:24,389 --> 04:31:25,440 areas sometimes now 5795 04:31:25,440 --> 04:31:28,600 occasionally they do move if you change if a streambed 5796 04:31:28,600 --> 04:31:29,319 changes your 5797 04:31:29,319 --> 04:31:31,920 environmentally sensitive area is going to move it's going 5798 04:31:31,920 --> 04:31:32,860 to change there's no 5799 04:31:32,860 --> 04:31:37,860 doubt about that I don't know if people realize how 5800 04:31:37,860 --> 04:31:39,000 valuable some of those 5801 04:31:39,000 --> 04:31:43,680 things are not just to the community but to adding to their 5802 04:31:43,680 --> 04:31:44,959 property it's not 5803 04:31:44,959 --> 04:31:49,649 always a bad thing to have these it can add to the to the 5804 04:31:49,649 --> 04:31:51,239 overall beauty it can 5805 04:31:51,239 --> 04:31:55,670 add to a different concept of stuff to purchase prohibited 5806 04:31:55,670 --> 04:31:56,559 and put up walls 5807 04:31:56,559 --> 04:31:59,770 I've seen communities do that it's like well here's the 5808 04:31:59,770 --> 04:32:00,760 park and it's an 5809 04:32:00,760 --> 04:32:02,989 environmentally sensitive area so we're just going to put 5810 04:32:02,989 --> 04:32:03,680 up a wall and all the 5811 04:32:03,680 --> 04:32:09,600 water spill into it that's not the solution and I do think 5812 04:32:09,600 --> 04:32:10,079 that it's part 5813 04:32:10,079 --> 04:32:13,959 of the community didn't didn't as a whole needs to value 5814 04:32:13,959 --> 04:32:15,120 what we have 5815 04:32:15,120 --> 04:32:18,549 particularly some of the some of the trees and the woodland 5816 04:32:18,549 --> 04:32:19,399 areas that are 5817 04:32:19,399 --> 04:32:23,280 very small it's like we don't have a map right now to look 5818 04:32:23,280 --> 04:32:24,520 at today of where 5819 04:32:24,520 --> 04:32:28,319 these particular areas are you can look it up on didn't 5820 04:32:28,319 --> 04:32:29,680 stuff but a lot of it's 5821 04:32:29,680 --> 04:32:33,870 outdated because gas stations have been built over it and 5822 04:32:33,870 --> 04:32:35,920 things like that so I 5823 04:32:35,920 --> 04:32:38,870 think as a community we need to be more aware and that's 5824 04:32:38,870 --> 04:32:40,159 why it really hurts me 5825 04:32:40,159 --> 04:32:43,379 that I'm the only public person here I understand that a 5826 04:32:43,379 --> 04:32:44,440 lot of the public 5827 04:32:44,440 --> 04:32:48,579 comment that was taken was basically from contractors 5828 04:32:48,579 --> 04:32:50,200 developers real estate 5829 04:32:50,200 --> 04:32:53,180 people and I don't think it ought to be that way but as a 5830 04:32:53,180 --> 04:32:55,799 community as a city we 5831 04:32:55,799 --> 04:32:58,709 need to be pushing some of this stuff I mean we worry about 5832 04:32:58,709 --> 04:32:59,559 the size of the 5833 04:32:59,559 --> 04:33:03,200 houses and the lot sizes but when you put all those houses 5834 04:33:03,200 --> 04:33:04,439 and that concrete 5835 04:33:04,439 --> 04:33:08,119 up and the water comes down you make me pay something for 5836 04:33:08,119 --> 04:33:09,360 my runoff fee but 5837 04:33:09,360 --> 04:33:11,880 where's it going it should be draining into these 5838 04:33:11,880 --> 04:33:13,439 environmentally sensitive 5839 04:33:13,439 --> 04:33:16,650 areas and taking it on down to Lewisville or at Roberts so 5840 04:33:16,650 --> 04:33:17,560 I think that 5841 04:33:17,560 --> 04:33:24,560 it's it's a bigger issue than just planning and zoning and 5842 04:33:24,560 --> 04:33:25,959 this and I don't 5843 04:33:25,959 --> 04:33:29,340 exactly know how to approach that but I felt compelled to 5844 04:33:29,340 --> 04:33:30,439 stay find out what you 5845 04:33:30,439 --> 04:33:33,439 guys were looking at I did try to read through a lot of the 5846 04:33:33,439 --> 04:33:34,799 stuff maybe I 5847 04:33:34,799 --> 04:33:38,319 didn't know what some chapter such-and-such was but then 5848 04:33:38,319 --> 04:33:39,159 when I I 5849 04:33:39,159 --> 04:33:41,889 typically go through everything and read it and that's what 5850 04:33:41,889 --> 04:33:42,880 brought my attention 5851 04:33:42,880 --> 04:33:46,560 to this so I think you've got a bigger conversation a 5852 04:33:46,560 --> 04:33:48,520 community conversation a 5853 04:33:48,520 --> 04:33:52,250 city conversation that needs to happen and maybe we can 5854 04:33:52,250 --> 04:33:53,759 come up with some ideas 5855 04:33:53,759 --> 04:33:56,959 I mean Denton really is an environmentally conscious area 5856 04:33:56,959 --> 04:33:57,560 we're also 5857 04:33:57,560 --> 04:34:00,729 a growing community I don't think those two things are 5858 04:34:00,729 --> 04:34:02,799 mutually exclusive but I 5859 04:34:02,799 --> 04:34:05,599 think we really do have to value what our resources are 5860 04:34:05,599 --> 04:34:06,959 thank you for answer 5861 04:34:06,959 --> 04:34:09,319 there's a couple other people Commissioner back thank you 5862 04:34:09,319 --> 04:34:09,560 chair 5863 04:34:09,560 --> 04:34:13,540 thanks Kim for coming down as usual you articulate thanks 5864 04:34:13,540 --> 04:34:14,520 very well I think you 5865 04:34:14,520 --> 04:34:18,150 did a great job here of creating that state of mind I was 5866 04:34:18,150 --> 04:34:19,360 trying to present 5867 04:34:19,360 --> 04:34:24,630 in several other areas but you came up in opposition to 5868 04:34:24,630 --> 04:34:27,400 this so I think what 5869 04:34:27,400 --> 04:34:31,860 we yeah what we what what's being proposed here I think are 5870 04:34:31,860 --> 04:34:32,560 good things I 5871 04:34:32,560 --> 04:34:36,840 think it does what essentially you're stating I don't think 5872 04:34:36,840 --> 04:34:37,639 there's anything in 5873 04:34:37,639 --> 04:34:40,520 there that hurts us was there one specific thing you saw 5874 04:34:40,520 --> 04:34:41,319 though that you 5875 04:34:41,319 --> 04:34:44,200 thought was gonna violate well I think some of the 5876 04:34:44,200 --> 04:34:45,680 conversation that I heard 5877 04:34:45,680 --> 04:34:50,200 during the work session today is what really concerned me 5878 04:34:50,200 --> 04:34:54,040 okay you know is 5879 04:34:54,040 --> 04:34:57,970 there really a clear understanding about what the essays 5880 04:34:57,970 --> 04:34:59,520 are what they do for us 5881 04:34:59,520 --> 04:35:04,279 as a community and how valuable they can be as opposed to 5882 04:35:04,279 --> 04:35:05,919 if I cut this one down 5883 04:35:05,919 --> 04:35:09,270 or if I cut this one in half can I mitigate this over here 5884 04:35:09,270 --> 04:35:10,000 I don't think 5885 04:35:10,000 --> 04:35:13,720 you can really in a lot of cases you can't create an 5886 04:35:13,720 --> 04:35:14,840 alternative 5887 04:35:14,840 --> 04:35:18,790 environmentally sensitive area you can mitigate trees that 5888 04:35:18,790 --> 04:35:19,959 you cut down but 5889 04:35:19,959 --> 04:35:25,250 once the trees are gone and the block of what that creature 5890 04:35:25,250 --> 04:35:27,599 is is gone it loses 5891 04:35:27,599 --> 04:35:33,159 it loses its pieces it loses its totality so that concerned 5892 04:35:33,159 --> 04:35:34,599 me I I would 5893 04:35:34,599 --> 04:35:40,240 like to to think that everybody understands what what we're 5894 04:35:40,240 --> 04:35:41,119 talking 5895 04:35:41,119 --> 04:35:43,909 about when we talk about it an ESA and environmentally 5896 04:35:43,909 --> 04:35:45,479 sensitive area it's not 5897 04:35:45,479 --> 04:35:48,689 just that this is here that's here but what they do for us 5898 04:35:48,689 --> 04:35:49,799 as a community and 5899 04:35:49,799 --> 04:35:53,580 I'm not real sure that I heard that understanding today and 5900 04:35:53,580 --> 04:35:54,840 I agree there 5901 04:35:54,840 --> 04:35:57,169 was that that element out there but I think what we're 5902 04:35:57,169 --> 04:35:58,040 voting on here because 5903 04:35:58,040 --> 04:36:00,020 I don't want you to be discouraged especially with me 5904 04:36:00,020 --> 04:36:00,720 because we we see 5905 04:36:00,720 --> 04:36:04,479 eyed eye on this is that really what the staff has done 5906 04:36:04,479 --> 04:36:06,200 here is just refine this 5907 04:36:06,200 --> 04:36:10,479 to a certain element that pretty much keeps things intact 5908 04:36:10,479 --> 04:36:12,439 and honors the ESA 5909 04:36:12,439 --> 04:36:16,599 I don't think we've got anything here that's going to allow 5910 04:36:16,599 --> 04:36:18,040 any mitigation at 5911 04:36:18,040 --> 04:36:20,639 this point that is going to be disrupted that'll be 5912 04:36:20,639 --> 04:36:21,639 something we discuss down the 5913 04:36:21,639 --> 04:36:25,729 road so I didn't want you to be discouraged because my 5914 04:36:25,729 --> 04:36:26,639 sense is the 5915 04:36:26,639 --> 04:36:31,919 Commission feels like this is a good revision change and we 5916 04:36:31,919 --> 04:36:32,709 'll go forward with it it's not going to be the negative 5917 04:36:32,709 --> 04:36:32,880 thing 5918 04:36:32,880 --> 04:36:35,259 there down the road we're going to have to deal with these 5919 04:36:35,259 --> 04:36:36,360 issues you've hit 5920 04:36:36,360 --> 04:36:41,040 the broader aspects of it I agree there is anything this 5921 04:36:41,040 --> 04:36:42,599 commission can do but I 5922 04:36:42,599 --> 04:36:45,119 think this is something the city has taken up I've 5923 04:36:45,119 --> 04:36:46,240 mentioned this in my 5924 04:36:46,240 --> 04:36:51,189 social media comments that we've reached a point where the 5925 04:36:51,189 --> 04:36:52,319 city is growing as 5926 04:36:52,319 --> 04:36:56,639 rapidly as it is and it's encroaching on these areas and I 5927 04:36:56,639 --> 04:36:58,000 agree with Chairman 5928 04:36:58,000 --> 04:37:00,819 Strange you know it shouldn't fall on a single individual 5929 04:37:00,819 --> 04:37:01,759 this should be an area 5930 04:37:01,759 --> 04:37:04,290 where the community comes together and say hey you know we 5931 04:37:04,290 --> 04:37:05,560 need to sustain this area 5932 04:37:05,560 --> 04:37:07,650 doesn't need to fall on this one guy but that's something 5933 04:37:07,650 --> 04:37:08,479 that has to go to city 5934 04:37:08,479 --> 04:37:12,040 council we need to organize on that and I'd be glad to work 5935 04:37:12,040 --> 04:37:12,520 with you on that 5936 04:37:12,520 --> 04:37:15,900 it's the language yeah be careful of the language be 5937 04:37:15,900 --> 04:37:17,080 careful of the loopholes 5938 04:37:17,080 --> 04:37:21,279 that you may be leaving open and that's you know basically 5939 04:37:21,279 --> 04:37:23,080 what what concerns me 5940 04:37:23,080 --> 04:37:27,290 as you're putting forth an ordinance and yeah it's got to 5941 04:37:27,290 --> 04:37:28,319 keep going up the line 5942 04:37:28,319 --> 04:37:33,799 but just be aware of what the language is okay thanks Kim 5943 04:37:33,799 --> 04:37:34,919 Commissioner Ellis 5944 04:37:34,919 --> 04:37:37,279 thank you chair thanks Kim for coming out to share your 5945 04:37:37,279 --> 04:37:39,520 thoughts yeah I guess 5946 04:37:39,520 --> 04:37:42,700 to continue with what Larry said I'm a little bit surprised 5947 04:37:42,700 --> 04:37:43,599 by your opposition 5948 04:37:43,599 --> 04:37:46,939 because I I agree with your thoughts on this what this is 5949 04:37:46,939 --> 04:37:48,159 is not a new ordinance 5950 04:37:48,159 --> 04:37:51,159 this is a rewrite of the current thing that's on the books 5951 04:37:51,159 --> 04:37:52,200 it actually makes it 5952 04:37:52,200 --> 04:37:56,759 better it does define it better it makes it easier to read 5953 04:37:56,759 --> 04:37:58,799 it's it's quicker to go 5954 04:37:58,799 --> 04:38:02,799 through and understand what ESA's are staff has vetted this 5955 04:38:02,799 --> 04:38:03,799 for a long time 5956 04:38:03,799 --> 04:38:06,590 along with the community on the environment so these 5957 04:38:06,590 --> 04:38:07,959 changes I think are 5958 04:38:07,959 --> 04:38:12,049 good and and strengthen the ESA it's brought up great 5959 04:38:12,049 --> 04:38:14,000 conversation here this 5960 04:38:14,000 --> 04:38:17,520 is not the tree code that's still there and that's delayed 5961 04:38:17,520 --> 04:38:20,159 but being discussed 5962 04:38:20,159 --> 04:38:24,439 we probably still need further discussion on the the 5963 04:38:24,439 --> 04:38:25,680 process of the 5964 04:38:25,680 --> 04:38:28,860 alternative ESA and possibly we can move this forward 5965 04:38:28,860 --> 04:38:30,400 because it makes sense to 5966 04:38:30,400 --> 04:38:33,830 move this forward after this long these are good changes to 5967 04:38:33,830 --> 04:38:34,659 this current 5968 04:38:34,659 --> 04:38:37,669 ordinance that's not to say that we don't need further 5969 04:38:37,669 --> 04:38:38,880 discussion on other 5970 04:38:38,880 --> 04:38:42,509 parts of it but because we do I don't think we need to hold 5971 04:38:42,509 --> 04:38:43,400 this up any longer 5972 04:38:43,400 --> 04:38:47,520 my hope is maybe with the alternative plan process we can 5973 04:38:47,520 --> 04:38:48,680 continue that 5974 04:38:48,680 --> 04:38:52,569 discussion into our DDC rewrite and and and and give that 5975 04:38:52,569 --> 04:38:53,759 the attention it 5976 04:38:53,759 --> 04:38:56,459 desires because we're not going to be able to figure that 5977 04:38:56,459 --> 04:38:58,319 out tonight what we 5978 04:38:58,319 --> 04:39:01,259 should be able to figure out tonight because we've we've we 5979 04:39:01,259 --> 04:39:02,400 've talked about it 5980 04:39:02,400 --> 04:39:06,009 now at great length we've had it in our possession now for 5981 04:39:06,009 --> 04:39:07,360 I think close to a 5982 04:39:07,360 --> 04:39:12,479 month Deborah's gone above and beyond and in trying to get 5983 04:39:12,479 --> 04:39:13,360 things worked out 5984 04:39:13,360 --> 04:39:18,310 with our concerns with the public comment with working 5985 04:39:18,310 --> 04:39:20,479 public comment that 5986 04:39:20,479 --> 04:39:25,759 could be worked into these changes so I mean I'm in support 5987 04:39:25,759 --> 04:39:27,200 of this where this 5988 04:39:27,200 --> 04:39:31,290 is right now and again to request further conversation of 5989 04:39:31,290 --> 04:39:31,799 what was brought 5990 04:39:31,799 --> 04:39:37,029 up but I hate to stall this out I don't think that does the 5991 04:39:37,029 --> 04:39:38,360 city any good at all 5992 04:39:38,360 --> 04:39:42,889 nor the development community because a lot of their good 5993 04:39:42,889 --> 04:39:44,240 suggestions have been 5994 04:39:44,240 --> 04:39:48,450 incorporated into this rewrite it would make no sense to to 5995 04:39:48,450 --> 04:39:50,159 oppose this well 5996 04:39:50,159 --> 04:39:53,319 sometimes having to choose whether you're opposed or your 5997 04:39:53,319 --> 04:39:55,040 support if you 5998 04:39:55,040 --> 04:39:57,180 could see some of the cards that I write I just put a 5999 04:39:57,180 --> 04:40:00,279 question mark in the middle 6000 04:40:01,799 --> 04:40:07,250 I am NOT opposed to updating the ordinance I just am asking 6001 04:40:07,250 --> 04:40:08,080 for caution 6002 04:40:08,080 --> 04:40:12,720 and awareness and it seems like you're confident that that 6003 04:40:12,720 --> 04:40:13,439 's there 6004 04:40:17,360 --> 04:40:21,790 just an idea about your concerns for phase one and how we 6005 04:40:21,790 --> 04:40:23,000 can put the 6006 04:40:23,000 --> 04:40:26,040 information out there and make it available we're still 6007 04:40:26,040 --> 04:40:27,200 working on the ESA 6008 04:40:27,200 --> 04:40:34,169 criteria manual we are they intended just to address topics 6009 04:40:34,169 --> 04:40:35,119 that homeowners 6010 04:40:35,119 --> 04:40:38,639 would be interested in knowing but also the technical 6011 04:40:38,639 --> 04:40:39,959 people who does the 6012 04:40:39,959 --> 04:40:43,659 research so we can definitely address the phase one 6013 04:40:43,659 --> 04:40:45,240 situation within the 6014 04:40:45,240 --> 04:40:49,520 criteria manual because it would be very specific for the 6015 04:40:49,520 --> 04:40:51,240 for the technical side 6016 04:40:51,240 --> 04:40:56,909 of the users so that's an option for you to consider as 6017 04:40:56,909 --> 04:41:02,119 well thank you thanks 6018 04:41:02,119 --> 04:41:10,340 again for staying and comments is a public hearing I have 6019 04:41:10,340 --> 04:41:12,119 no more cards we 6020 04:41:12,119 --> 04:41:14,639 have one more card 6021 04:41:21,240 --> 04:41:31,159 good evening Lee Allison with Allison engineering group 6022 04:41:31,159 --> 04:41:32,000 representing the 6023 04:41:32,000 --> 04:41:36,840 community development Alliance this evening appreciate this 6024 04:41:36,840 --> 04:41:37,479 opportunity to 6025 04:41:37,479 --> 04:41:42,709 speak again I'd like to say that the changes that the staff 6026 04:41:42,709 --> 04:41:43,560 has recommended 6027 04:41:43,560 --> 04:41:47,020 all sound good to us we think they could be implemented 6028 04:41:47,020 --> 04:41:48,720 into the code it's the 6029 04:41:48,720 --> 04:41:51,020 things that are not being addressed that are concerned 6030 04:41:51,020 --> 04:41:52,319 particularly the portions 6031 04:41:52,319 --> 04:41:55,159 that are broken and aren't being fixed I have heard 6032 04:41:55,159 --> 04:41:56,919 discussion this evening and 6033 04:41:56,919 --> 04:42:00,689 appreciate the idea of changing the process by which the 6034 04:42:00,689 --> 04:42:01,959 code or alternate 6035 04:42:01,959 --> 04:42:06,389 ESAs are considered again as you mentioned earlier mr. Beck 6036 04:42:06,389 --> 04:42:07,119 we want to 6037 04:42:07,119 --> 04:42:10,409 keep the science and the facts and the technology into it 6038 04:42:10,409 --> 04:42:11,680 and the politics out 6039 04:42:11,680 --> 04:42:14,770 and a zoning case tends to be more political as it should 6040 04:42:14,770 --> 04:42:15,720 because you're 6041 04:42:15,720 --> 04:42:19,240 dealing with land use versus land characteristics and 6042 04:42:19,240 --> 04:42:20,119 granted these 6043 04:42:20,119 --> 04:42:23,430 essays are purposeful characteristics but they're really 6044 04:42:23,430 --> 04:42:24,560 not just the use of the 6045 04:42:24,560 --> 04:42:29,610 land the bigger issues with alternative ESAs and making 6046 04:42:29,610 --> 04:42:31,000 adjustments are really 6047 04:42:31,000 --> 04:42:35,950 pretty much related to the the flood plains not to the wet 6048 04:42:35,950 --> 04:42:37,159 lands not to the 6049 04:42:37,159 --> 04:42:40,520 jurisdictional waters not to the navigable waters not to 6050 04:42:40,520 --> 04:42:41,439 the to the 6051 04:42:41,439 --> 04:42:44,439 timberlands it has more to do with the flood plains and you 6052 04:42:44,439 --> 04:42:45,080 can have a flood 6053 04:42:45,080 --> 04:42:48,189 plain that might be a thousand feet wide and you've got a 6054 04:42:48,189 --> 04:42:49,840 200 foot stream buffer 6055 04:42:49,840 --> 04:42:53,520 but we can hardly get into that thousand feet we have a 6056 04:42:53,520 --> 04:42:55,279 restriction there are 50 6057 04:42:55,279 --> 04:42:58,840 cubic yards of dirt that can be put in in one example that 6058 04:42:58,840 --> 04:42:59,840 's point one nine 6059 04:42:59,840 --> 04:43:03,220 inches of dirt over an acre of land we're told we can put 6060 04:43:03,220 --> 04:43:04,200 parking lots in 6061 04:43:04,200 --> 04:43:06,430 there but another section of the ordinance to say the 6062 04:43:06,430 --> 04:43:07,159 parking lot has to 6063 04:43:07,159 --> 04:43:10,319 be above the BFE you're not gonna bring those parking lots 6064 04:43:10,319 --> 04:43:11,319 up with point one 6065 04:43:11,319 --> 04:43:14,220 nine inches or point one nine feet of soil you're gonna 6066 04:43:14,220 --> 04:43:15,200 need feet of soil 6067 04:43:15,200 --> 04:43:19,220 you're gonna need much yards to do that when I look 6068 04:43:19,220 --> 04:43:21,439 consider this more after 6069 04:43:21,439 --> 04:43:26,169 last week the word that comes up is awkward and it's been 6070 04:43:26,169 --> 04:43:27,200 the process that's 6071 04:43:27,200 --> 04:43:30,819 been awkward to have a committee prepare an ordinance put 6072 04:43:30,819 --> 04:43:32,040 the ordinance out there 6073 04:43:32,040 --> 04:43:36,040 get public feedback then list the public comments but not 6074 04:43:36,040 --> 04:43:37,680 go reiterate rework the 6075 04:43:37,680 --> 04:43:42,849 ordinance and come back is just been kind of odd to me not 6076 04:43:42,849 --> 04:43:44,560 that back-and-forth 6077 04:43:44,560 --> 04:43:47,759 discussion and then to bring to the P&Z a list of comments 6078 04:43:47,759 --> 04:43:48,959 that have been made 6079 04:43:48,959 --> 04:43:51,189 and say which ones do you want to change in the ordinance 6080 04:43:51,189 --> 04:43:52,119 kind of making you the 6081 04:43:52,119 --> 04:43:56,919 next writer of it versus that iterative working cooperative 6082 04:43:56,919 --> 04:43:58,040 process has been 6083 04:43:58,040 --> 04:44:03,150 kind of awkward knowing what the purpose of the essays are 6084 04:44:03,150 --> 04:44:05,680 and the opportunity to 6085 04:44:05,680 --> 04:44:09,029 work with the drainage ordinance the floodplain ordinance 6086 04:44:09,029 --> 04:44:09,560 the park 6087 04:44:09,560 --> 04:44:13,340 recreation plans incorporating bike paths and walking 6088 04:44:13,340 --> 04:44:14,599 trails in with the 6089 04:44:14,599 --> 04:44:18,330 ESA's great places to have alternative routes for bike 6090 04:44:18,330 --> 04:44:20,240 paths and in walking 6091 04:44:20,240 --> 04:44:22,599 paths to get the bicycles off the streets instead of 6092 04:44:22,599 --> 04:44:23,840 putting more lanes on 6093 04:44:23,840 --> 04:44:26,409 to the streets not that some don't need to be there but 6094 04:44:26,409 --> 04:44:27,680 other ways to keep 6095 04:44:27,680 --> 04:44:30,689 traffic from having to mix in with each other instead of 6096 04:44:30,689 --> 04:44:31,540 looking at those 6097 04:44:31,540 --> 04:44:35,340 synergistic opportunities we're kind of segregating the ESA 6098 04:44:35,340 --> 04:44:36,159 's from land 6099 04:44:36,159 --> 04:44:40,240 development and telling developers to come in and try and 6100 04:44:40,240 --> 04:44:41,759 get alternate ESA's 6101 04:44:41,759 --> 04:44:44,599 I've had a couple of these changes request and one got 6102 04:44:44,599 --> 04:44:45,520 turned down and 6103 04:44:45,520 --> 04:44:49,240 after it was turned down XP&Z members have asked me why did 6104 04:44:49,240 --> 04:44:49,599 you put that 6105 04:44:49,599 --> 04:44:52,689 retaining wall that far back that was just blank land in 6106 04:44:52,689 --> 04:44:53,319 front of there 6107 04:44:53,319 --> 04:44:56,360 because y'all wouldn't let us move it forward didn't really 6108 04:44:56,360 --> 04:44:57,439 understand what it 6109 04:44:57,439 --> 04:45:01,389 was when it comes to the wetlands and so forth the Corps of 6110 04:45:01,389 --> 04:45:03,040 Engineers the US Army 6111 04:45:03,040 --> 04:45:06,209 Corps of Engineers the permits we have to get through the 6112 04:45:06,209 --> 04:45:07,439 EPA etc are much more 6113 04:45:07,439 --> 04:45:09,750 restrictive than what didn't would happen didn't doesn't 6114 04:45:09,750 --> 04:45:10,919 need regulations to 6115 04:45:10,919 --> 04:45:14,130 protect those other than you have to have a core permit we 6116 04:45:14,130 --> 04:45:14,900 're already there 6117 04:45:14,900 --> 04:45:18,209 and the mitigation costs are very expensive so I encourage 6118 04:45:18,209 --> 04:45:18,919 you as we go 6119 04:45:18,919 --> 04:45:24,720 forward ask that yes present these forward for change at 6120 04:45:24,720 --> 04:45:25,479 this time but also 6121 04:45:25,479 --> 04:45:28,509 as we go through a rewrite of the entire Denton Development 6122 04:45:28,509 --> 04:45:29,200 Code that we 6123 04:45:29,200 --> 04:45:32,080 coordinate these together and integrate them so that our 6124 04:45:32,080 --> 04:45:33,000 limits on fill and 6125 04:45:33,000 --> 04:45:37,159 valley storage and so forth something's broke let's fix it 6126 04:45:37,159 --> 04:45:38,599 across the board not 6127 04:45:38,599 --> 04:45:41,959 not fix it here because it said somewhere else and we can't 6128 04:45:41,959 --> 04:45:42,560 change it 6129 04:45:42,560 --> 04:45:46,479 thank you questions Commissioner Beck hey chair 6130 04:45:46,479 --> 04:45:51,430 actually you brought up again the concern about which was 6131 04:45:51,430 --> 04:45:53,000 in comment number 7 6132 04:45:53,000 --> 04:45:56,130 about the dirt work quantities are too so to be meaningful 6133 04:45:56,130 --> 04:45:57,360 and I would like to ask 6134 04:45:57,360 --> 04:46:00,000 Deborah to come up because I asked her about this to 6135 04:46:00,000 --> 04:46:01,279 clarify it was kind of 6136 04:46:01,279 --> 04:46:05,709 muddy to me and could you share with us Deborah what you 6137 04:46:05,709 --> 04:46:06,279 shared with me 6138 04:46:06,279 --> 04:46:09,040 regarding this 6139 04:46:23,000 --> 04:46:33,389 the limit on the 50 cubic yard or the 25 cubic year for 6140 04:46:33,389 --> 04:46:34,639 residential 50 cubic 6141 04:46:34,639 --> 04:46:38,470 yard for commercial is just to require the protection of 6142 04:46:38,470 --> 04:46:39,919 the ESA the physical 6143 04:46:39,919 --> 04:46:44,639 protection the fencing out it is the same threshold that 6144 04:46:44,639 --> 04:46:46,200 anybody who will go 6145 04:46:46,200 --> 04:46:51,150 and move dirt or excavate would require to pull a building 6146 04:46:51,150 --> 04:46:52,319 permit a clear and 6147 04:46:52,319 --> 04:46:56,819 great impairment during that process the staff does what we 6148 04:46:56,819 --> 04:46:58,200 call the ESA review 6149 04:46:58,200 --> 04:47:02,930 which is different from the ESA assessment okay what it 6150 04:47:02,930 --> 04:47:04,720 does is ask the 6151 04:47:04,720 --> 04:47:08,709 the developer or the owner to put some protective fence and 6152 04:47:08,709 --> 04:47:09,759 just to let the 6153 04:47:09,759 --> 04:47:14,369 people operating the heavy equipment that those are areas 6154 04:47:14,369 --> 04:47:15,639 that needs to that 6155 04:47:15,639 --> 04:47:20,869 not disturbance should happen that's what the 50 cubic the 6156 04:47:20,869 --> 04:47:22,639 25 and the 50 50 6157 04:47:22,639 --> 04:47:28,779 cubic yard is all about then we have on sex and section 17. 6158 04:47:28,779 --> 04:47:30,080 7 the area that talks 6159 04:47:30,080 --> 04:47:36,150 about feel on their own developed plane that's where we 6160 04:47:36,150 --> 04:47:39,959 have the 300 cubic yard 6161 04:47:39,959 --> 04:47:43,909 threshold that's for feel within the undeveloped floodplain 6162 04:47:43,909 --> 04:47:45,840 but the 25 and the 50 6163 04:47:45,840 --> 04:47:49,729 what is triggering is just the protection of the ESA the 6164 04:47:49,729 --> 04:47:50,439 physical 6165 04:47:50,439 --> 04:47:53,959 protection with some sort of fencing around so this is not 6166 04:47:53,959 --> 04:47:54,520 limiting 6167 04:47:54,520 --> 04:48:00,430 developers to build parking lots or anything like that the 6168 04:48:00,430 --> 04:48:02,439 building in the 6169 04:48:02,439 --> 04:48:06,450 in the in the floodplain you have to meet 17 which is is us 6170 04:48:06,450 --> 04:48:08,680 but also 19 and 6171 04:48:08,680 --> 04:48:14,950 again I'm branching out outside my expertise here but bear 6172 04:48:14,950 --> 04:48:17,040 with me when you 6173 04:48:17,040 --> 04:48:20,759 are developing in when you are feeling in the floodplain 6174 04:48:20,759 --> 04:48:22,159 from a drainage 6175 04:48:22,159 --> 04:48:26,590 standpoint there is a limit about how much feel you can put 6176 04:48:26,590 --> 04:48:28,000 without increasing 6177 04:48:28,000 --> 04:48:32,439 the value storage oh I will say reducing the value storage 6178 04:48:32,439 --> 04:48:33,799 and increasing the BFE 6179 04:48:33,799 --> 04:48:40,119 the base flood elevation most of the time the drainage code 6180 04:48:40,119 --> 04:48:41,759 requires all parking 6181 04:48:41,759 --> 04:48:47,360 areas to be elevated 12 inches above the BFE the base flood 6182 04:48:47,360 --> 04:48:48,799 elevation the reason 6183 04:48:48,799 --> 04:48:53,049 why is because during a flood flood event we don't want 6184 04:48:53,049 --> 04:48:54,279 cars to be you know 6185 04:48:54,279 --> 04:48:58,580 floating away when you have to put that much amount in the 6186 04:48:58,580 --> 04:49:00,360 floodplain to elevate 6187 04:49:00,360 --> 04:49:05,159 the parking pretty much chances are you are also reducing 6188 04:49:05,159 --> 04:49:06,400 your value storage and 6189 04:49:06,400 --> 04:49:12,470 you would be increasing the the BFE so most of the time 6190 04:49:12,470 --> 04:49:13,599 parking needs to be 6191 04:49:13,599 --> 04:49:18,029 happening outside the floodplain anyway and this is not 6192 04:49:18,029 --> 04:49:19,639 from my ESA standpoint 6193 04:49:19,639 --> 04:49:26,939 it just from a drainage standpoint so is that maybe a 6194 04:49:26,939 --> 04:49:30,279 misunderstanding Lee or 6195 04:49:30,279 --> 04:49:33,959 how would you know sir I think we're getting two things 6196 04:49:33,959 --> 04:49:34,759 mixed together if 6197 04:49:34,759 --> 04:49:38,680 you'll go to comment number 51 on the page part a when it 6198 04:49:38,680 --> 04:49:40,200 talks about field is 6199 04:49:40,200 --> 04:49:44,959 limited to 50 cubic yards or 300 cubic yards per acre that 6200 04:49:44,959 --> 04:49:46,400 's just not enough 6201 04:49:46,400 --> 04:49:50,020 dirt to be meaningful to even you're gonna have you this 6202 04:49:50,020 --> 04:49:51,159 can be done without 6203 04:49:51,159 --> 04:49:53,959 an alternate ESA but that's not enough work to be 6204 04:49:53,959 --> 04:49:55,520 meaningful if we're gonna 6205 04:49:55,520 --> 04:49:57,970 need to put a parking lot anywhere and we can do it and 6206 04:49:57,970 --> 04:49:59,439 meet the other ordinances 6207 04:49:59,439 --> 04:50:03,409 like sub chapter 19 regarded to drainage etc we have to go 6208 04:50:03,409 --> 04:50:04,759 for an alternate ESA 6209 04:50:04,759 --> 04:50:11,040 which isn't that onerous well currently is with having to 6210 04:50:11,040 --> 04:50:11,880 go through the zoning 6211 04:50:11,880 --> 04:50:14,630 but you know that's not something we're as much against it 6212 04:50:14,630 --> 04:50:15,720 's just we're almost 6213 04:50:15,720 --> 04:50:18,909 gonna have to do it every time to be able to work in a 6214 04:50:18,909 --> 04:50:23,040 floodplain ESA and you 6215 04:50:23,040 --> 04:50:26,020 know again if we've got a floodplain that's a thousand feet 6216 04:50:26,020 --> 04:50:26,840 wide and we're 6217 04:50:26,840 --> 04:50:29,939 wanting to come in two or three hundred feet on each side 6218 04:50:29,939 --> 04:50:30,840 and we've got a 6219 04:50:30,840 --> 04:50:33,849 stream buffer that's 200 feet wide we got wetlands that are 6220 04:50:33,849 --> 04:50:34,840 within that stream 6221 04:50:34,840 --> 04:50:37,720 buffer we're not getting into the wetlands and others but 6222 04:50:37,720 --> 04:50:38,319 it's hard to 6223 04:50:38,319 --> 04:50:41,840 get into that stream buffer I mean to that floodplain edge 6224 04:50:41,840 --> 04:50:42,919 FEMA allows it in 6225 04:50:42,919 --> 04:50:45,520 fact with FEMA I can do it with just a simple letter of map 6226 04:50:45,520 --> 04:50:46,479 revision based on 6227 04:50:46,479 --> 04:50:50,000 fill if it's a studied stream so this is a lot more string 6228 04:50:50,000 --> 04:50:51,240 ent these are kind of 6229 04:50:51,240 --> 04:50:53,990 meaningless but as Deborah was mentioning or alluding to 6230 04:50:53,990 --> 04:50:55,080 and what I was trying to 6231 04:50:55,080 --> 04:51:00,430 explain is you've got conditions in subchapter 19 of the 6232 04:51:00,430 --> 04:51:01,439 drainage ordinance 6233 04:51:01,439 --> 04:51:04,599 or over here in a floodplain ordinance and those don't 6234 04:51:04,599 --> 04:51:06,080 necessarily make sense 6235 04:51:06,080 --> 04:51:09,240 but we're not going to address those things that don't make 6236 04:51:09,240 --> 04:51:10,159 sense in others 6237 04:51:10,159 --> 04:51:13,049 so we're going to keep this subchapter the same and not 6238 04:51:13,049 --> 04:51:14,200 deal with the bigger 6239 04:51:14,200 --> 04:51:18,520 issue and I guess I'm asking is this goes forward should it 6240 04:51:18,520 --> 04:51:19,799 then to go forward 6241 04:51:19,799 --> 04:51:23,090 with an idea that as we look at the entire DDC together let 6242 04:51:23,090 --> 04:51:23,919 's look at the 6243 04:51:23,919 --> 04:51:27,840 impact of all of the sections of the code and not let one 6244 04:51:27,840 --> 04:51:29,119 put a parameter 6245 04:51:29,119 --> 04:51:33,900 around another that keeps it from making changes that would 6246 04:51:33,900 --> 04:51:34,880 be appropriate that 6247 04:51:34,880 --> 04:51:38,279 would be proper okay but I guess my concern is if you're 6248 04:51:38,279 --> 04:51:39,080 going to build in 6249 04:51:39,080 --> 04:51:43,599 a floodplain and you're going to have to come in with 6250 04:51:43,599 --> 04:51:44,799 another field to actually 6251 04:51:44,799 --> 04:51:52,130 alter the ESA there lies the conflict to me it's I 6252 04:51:52,130 --> 04:51:54,919 understand that as a property 6253 04:51:54,919 --> 04:51:59,189 owner they're kind of stuck with this but as a developer in 6254 04:51:59,189 --> 04:52:00,479 your design is 6255 04:52:00,479 --> 04:52:03,080 there no way you can come in and put the fill you need to 6256 04:52:03,080 --> 04:52:04,000 to put the parking 6257 04:52:04,000 --> 04:52:09,040 space in the building without encroaching the two the 6258 04:52:09,040 --> 04:52:10,319 limits within 6259 04:52:10,319 --> 04:52:14,470 well indent in the floodplain is an ESA right so to get 6260 04:52:14,470 --> 04:52:16,319 into the floodplain you 6261 04:52:16,319 --> 04:52:20,919 have to get into the ESA to encroach on it I mean you can't 6262 04:52:20,919 --> 04:52:22,639 narrow your flood 6263 04:52:22,639 --> 04:52:25,849 plane from a thousand feet to 200 feet without filling in 6264 04:52:25,849 --> 04:52:27,080 the floodplain and 6265 04:52:27,080 --> 04:52:32,819 therefore encroaching on the ESA you know it's okay well 6266 04:52:32,819 --> 04:52:33,560 there I guess there 6267 04:52:33,560 --> 04:52:38,709 in life the dilemma for most of us yeah you know what are 6268 04:52:38,709 --> 04:52:41,279 we preserved do we do we 6269 04:52:41,279 --> 04:52:44,270 deserve the person's right to you know build on a property 6270 04:52:44,270 --> 04:52:45,159 that's going to 6271 04:52:45,159 --> 04:52:48,959 really do something that's gonna negatively impact the 6272 04:52:48,959 --> 04:52:50,000 entire community 6273 04:52:50,000 --> 04:52:52,540 but it gets back to the question of why should one 6274 04:52:52,540 --> 04:52:54,919 individual pay for it too so 6275 04:52:54,919 --> 04:52:58,340 that's an argument we can't have here no and I think the 6276 04:52:58,340 --> 04:52:59,599 question is case by 6277 04:52:59,599 --> 04:53:03,229 case is it really negatively impacting the community just 6278 04:53:03,229 --> 04:53:04,720 because it's reducing 6279 04:53:04,720 --> 04:53:08,830 the size of an ESA doesn't mean it's having a negative 6280 04:53:08,830 --> 04:53:10,759 impact I don't think 6281 04:53:10,759 --> 04:53:13,520 it's necessarily neutral either I could be wrong but again 6282 04:53:13,520 --> 04:53:14,540 that's a deeper 6283 04:53:14,540 --> 04:53:17,479 discussion we get into but sure I see a point 6284 04:53:17,479 --> 04:53:23,200 Deborah was are you you like to counter with anything that 6285 04:53:23,200 --> 04:53:24,959 we just addressed here 6286 04:53:24,959 --> 04:53:31,520 I mean I believe staff is looking into sub chapter 19 as 6287 04:53:31,520 --> 04:53:33,319 well they you have 6288 04:53:33,319 --> 04:53:36,479 seen the drainage criteria manual it's my understanding 6289 04:53:36,479 --> 04:53:37,520 that they're also 6290 04:53:37,520 --> 04:53:40,540 working on the 19 that would be something that you will be 6291 04:53:40,540 --> 04:53:41,240 looking at it 6292 04:53:41,240 --> 04:53:45,389 I don't know if that would be packaged as a part of the DDC 6293 04:53:45,389 --> 04:53:46,639 rewrite or they 6294 04:53:46,639 --> 04:53:53,360 wouldn't move it individually but those are those are the 6295 04:53:53,360 --> 04:53:56,799 the discussions so I 6296 04:53:56,799 --> 04:54:00,939 think that you would have the opportunity to take a look 6297 04:54:00,939 --> 04:54:01,759 closely on 6298 04:54:01,759 --> 04:54:06,919 on sub chapter 19 as well thank you 6299 04:54:07,360 --> 04:54:10,779 late before I recognize Commissioner I want to follow up on 6300 04:54:10,779 --> 04:54:11,520 Commissioner back's 6301 04:54:11,520 --> 04:54:17,290 question I think that's some of this because of the 6302 04:54:17,290 --> 04:54:18,240 technicality and all the 6303 04:54:18,240 --> 04:54:22,330 layers it makes it sometimes difficult to follow all these 6304 04:54:22,330 --> 04:54:24,840 the floodplain is 6305 04:54:24,840 --> 04:54:29,069 is regulated by FEMA and you can modify that you can study 6306 04:54:29,069 --> 04:54:30,000 it you can do letters 6307 04:54:30,000 --> 04:54:32,720 of my provisions Clomor's and those types of things correct 6308 04:54:32,720 --> 04:54:33,959 that is correct 6309 04:54:33,959 --> 04:54:37,680 FEMA allows that the issue comes in and that's where I'm 6310 04:54:37,680 --> 04:54:39,639 having a little bit of a 6311 04:54:39,639 --> 04:54:43,279 concern and trying to bring some things up is that the city 6312 04:54:43,279 --> 04:54:44,639 didn't then comes on 6313 04:54:44,639 --> 04:54:48,150 top of it and then comes outside of it and says if it's in 6314 04:54:48,150 --> 04:54:49,119 the eight puts an 6315 04:54:49,119 --> 04:54:52,729 ESA on either side of it you can't come inside the ESA 6316 04:54:52,729 --> 04:54:53,360 without doing an 6317 04:54:53,360 --> 04:54:58,759 alternative ESA plan correct so FEMA allows you to do 6318 04:54:58,759 --> 04:55:00,560 something and you can 6319 04:55:00,560 --> 04:55:04,040 however the city of Denton has come and put another layer 6320 04:55:04,040 --> 04:55:05,360 of regulation on top 6321 04:55:05,360 --> 04:55:08,869 that says you can't do what you can through federal and all 6322 04:55:08,869 --> 04:55:09,840 the guidelines 6323 04:55:09,840 --> 04:55:12,270 and all the things that you have to do and we've had those 6324 04:55:12,270 --> 04:55:13,240 discussions about 6325 04:55:13,240 --> 04:55:16,799 the insurance and safety and all that kind of stuff so you 6326 04:55:16,799 --> 04:55:17,799 didn't have a whole 6327 04:55:17,799 --> 04:55:20,680 another layer of regulation on top that makes that where 6328 04:55:20,680 --> 04:55:21,840 you can't do it unless 6329 04:55:21,840 --> 04:55:26,610 you do an alternate ESA that's correct and that's where I 6330 04:55:26,610 --> 04:55:29,159 have a difficult time 6331 04:55:29,159 --> 04:55:32,270 when we're talking about this is there are protections for 6332 04:55:32,270 --> 04:55:33,799 things it's through 6333 04:55:33,799 --> 04:55:36,529 federal it's through state but the city didn't puts an 6334 04:55:36,529 --> 04:55:38,400 extra one on top and then 6335 04:55:38,400 --> 04:55:41,529 how do people find out about it because these reports are 6336 04:55:41,529 --> 04:55:42,799 typically pulled off 6337 04:55:42,799 --> 04:55:46,430 of federal and state maps and the city of Denton is coming 6338 04:55:46,430 --> 04:55:47,639 out and putting a 6339 04:55:47,639 --> 04:55:49,860 whole nother layer of regulation a whole additional 6340 04:55:49,860 --> 04:55:51,759 economic burden on individual 6341 04:55:51,759 --> 04:55:54,970 property owners that we don't have in a federal and the 6342 04:55:54,970 --> 04:55:56,439 state level and that's 6343 04:55:56,439 --> 04:56:00,689 where I'm struggling with some of this trying to find a 6344 04:56:00,689 --> 04:56:02,520 happy median of protect 6345 04:56:02,520 --> 04:56:06,029 the environment there are guidelines on their federal and 6346 04:56:06,029 --> 04:56:07,080 state level see it 6347 04:56:07,080 --> 04:56:10,369 then has another level what's the balance that we're going 6348 04:56:10,369 --> 04:56:10,919 to do as a 6349 04:56:10,919 --> 04:56:13,810 municipality in a regulation we're going to put and then 6350 04:56:13,810 --> 04:56:15,080 say that guy over there 6351 04:56:15,080 --> 04:56:17,439 we're going to take all this property through our 6352 04:56:17,439 --> 04:56:18,799 regulation for the good of 6353 04:56:18,799 --> 04:56:21,459 the community and you just have to bear the burden but the 6354 04:56:21,459 --> 04:56:22,319 federal government 6355 04:56:22,319 --> 04:56:24,950 and the state government says you can work in those areas 6356 04:56:24,950 --> 04:56:25,919 but the city of Denton 6357 04:56:25,919 --> 04:56:31,040 says you can't or you have to do an alternate ESA and then 6358 04:56:31,040 --> 04:56:31,919 it's a political 6359 04:56:31,919 --> 04:56:35,630 process and it's not defined it's very defined when you do 6360 04:56:35,630 --> 04:56:37,400 a FEMA permit it's 6361 04:56:37,400 --> 04:56:40,919 black and white and I know that's not a term people want to 6362 04:56:40,919 --> 04:56:42,119 hear but it's a very 6363 04:56:42,119 --> 04:56:45,080 specific guideline how you do it and if you can't meet the 6364 04:56:45,080 --> 04:56:46,200 guidelines you don't 6365 04:56:46,200 --> 04:56:49,919 get to do it so I would pitch it back to you Commissioner 6366 04:56:49,919 --> 04:56:51,159 back okay thank you 6367 04:56:51,159 --> 04:56:54,580 chair and I do understand the dilemma we have with not 6368 04:56:54,580 --> 04:56:57,119 being able to have all the 6369 04:56:57,119 --> 04:57:00,090 levels of regulation up there in front of the developers 6370 04:57:00,090 --> 04:57:01,319 you've got federal and 6371 04:57:01,319 --> 04:57:04,930 state and then boom come in here comes the city I would 6372 04:57:04,930 --> 04:57:06,200 just comment that 6373 04:57:06,200 --> 04:57:09,270 federal and state don't necessarily have the best interest 6374 04:57:09,270 --> 04:57:10,439 of a community in mind 6375 04:57:10,439 --> 04:57:14,209 so the fact that the city said that we do have a department 6376 04:57:14,209 --> 04:57:15,520 in the city that is 6377 04:57:15,520 --> 04:57:17,750 looking out a little bit more for us I'm okay with that but 6378 04:57:17,750 --> 04:57:18,560 I don't want to make 6379 04:57:18,560 --> 04:57:21,259 it rough on the bill but nobody does but I wouldn't be 6380 04:57:21,259 --> 04:57:22,520 little the fact that just 6381 04:57:22,520 --> 04:57:25,029 because the city has another level there it's necessarily a 6382 04:57:25,029 --> 04:57:25,799 bad thing I think 6383 04:57:25,799 --> 04:57:28,619 they're there in our interest we just need to try and work 6384 04:57:28,619 --> 04:57:29,599 out the kinks I 6385 04:57:29,599 --> 04:57:35,479 agree without doing one more day we need stewardship yes 6386 04:57:35,479 --> 04:57:36,840 and then there was a 6387 04:57:36,840 --> 04:57:39,930 sarcastic comment in there about how FEMA can come in and 6388 04:57:39,930 --> 04:57:40,840 change the flood 6389 04:57:40,840 --> 04:57:43,930 plain without going through the zoning process and changes 6390 04:57:43,930 --> 04:57:47,080 everybody ESA so in 6391 04:57:47,080 --> 04:57:49,959 fact they're in the process of changing maps now so the yes 6392 04:57:49,959 --> 04:57:51,040 of the floodplain 6393 04:57:51,040 --> 04:57:54,959 ESAs may change again in the next year or two don't they do 6394 04:57:54,959 --> 04:57:58,240 that every year no 6395 04:57:58,240 --> 04:58:01,919 they've started to do it more frequently since hurricane 6396 04:58:01,919 --> 04:58:03,360 Katrina and others but 6397 04:58:03,360 --> 04:58:05,270 prior to that it might have been ten or twenty years 6398 04:58:05,270 --> 04:58:06,119 whether they put new maps 6399 04:58:06,119 --> 04:58:11,790 out yeah Commissioner Rosa thank you chair I have a 6400 04:58:11,790 --> 04:58:12,680 question for mr. Austin 6401 04:58:12,680 --> 04:58:15,799 before I get to that I find myself strangely maybe 6402 04:58:15,799 --> 04:58:17,000 surprising myself can 6403 04:58:17,000 --> 04:58:22,250 agree with this question or back on the political idea that 6404 04:58:22,250 --> 04:58:23,799 although I think 6405 04:58:23,799 --> 04:58:27,150 federal and state governments awesome I don't know if they 6406 04:58:27,150 --> 04:58:28,119 're in our backyard 6407 04:58:28,119 --> 04:58:32,069 looking after our trees and so I'm not necessarily opposed 6408 04:58:32,069 --> 04:58:33,279 to having a local 6409 04:58:33,279 --> 04:58:38,299 authority theoretically and hopefully looking out for the 6410 04:58:38,299 --> 04:58:39,000 best interest of the 6411 04:58:39,000 --> 04:58:41,610 community I would one hope that they are looking out for 6412 04:58:41,610 --> 04:58:42,200 the best interest of the 6413 04:58:42,200 --> 04:58:45,159 community that's why there is extra scrutiny but to chairs 6414 04:58:45,159 --> 04:58:46,180 point there has 6415 04:58:46,180 --> 04:58:49,130 to be a way for developers and property owners to know what 6416 04:58:49,130 --> 04:58:50,439 that is if if we're 6417 04:58:50,439 --> 04:58:53,020 adamant about having an extra level of scrutiny then we 6418 04:58:53,020 --> 04:58:54,159 should also be adamant 6419 04:58:54,159 --> 04:58:57,610 about the transparency in which that scrutiny is going to 6420 04:58:57,610 --> 04:58:58,680 be applied to the 6421 04:58:58,680 --> 04:59:01,689 property owners and developers and if it's if there is some 6422 04:59:01,689 --> 04:59:02,400 issue with a 6423 04:59:02,400 --> 04:59:05,310 phase one which to be honest I learned about tonight what 6424 04:59:05,310 --> 04:59:06,840 that was if there is 6425 04:59:06,840 --> 04:59:09,869 issues with something like that then I would like to to 6426 04:59:09,869 --> 04:59:11,240 encourage the city and 6427 04:59:11,240 --> 04:59:14,060 staff to find ways to make that more transparent for 6428 04:59:14,060 --> 04:59:15,400 development to happen 6429 04:59:15,400 --> 04:59:19,830 that's just a point the question I had was free mr. Austin 6430 04:59:19,830 --> 04:59:21,479 you you've also been 6431 04:59:21,479 --> 04:59:24,659 here five hours on many nights and I appreciate very much 6432 04:59:24,659 --> 04:59:25,720 the feedback you 6433 04:59:25,720 --> 04:59:29,400 provide to this Commission and to staff and your work is 6434 04:59:29,400 --> 04:59:30,880 evident here if I 6435 04:59:30,880 --> 04:59:34,400 understood you correctly and I want to make sure I did it 6436 04:59:34,400 --> 04:59:36,119 sounded to me like you 6437 04:59:36,119 --> 04:59:40,580 were okay or in agreement with the 20 responses that staff 6438 04:59:40,580 --> 04:59:41,639 made to the public 6439 04:59:41,639 --> 04:59:46,270 comment with the encouragement that through the DDC rewrite 6440 04:59:46,270 --> 04:59:47,080 that's also 6441 04:59:47,080 --> 04:59:51,250 going on that this Commission and Council more holistically 6442 04:59:51,250 --> 04:59:52,040 look at the 6443 04:59:52,040 --> 04:59:55,419 alignment between sub chapters to make sure there's a 6444 04:59:55,419 --> 04:59:57,360 holistic approach did I 6445 04:59:57,360 --> 05:00:00,419 understand you correctly or did I miss you somewhere I 6446 05:00:00,419 --> 05:00:01,439 wished I'd said it as 6447 05:00:01,439 --> 05:00:08,740 well some emphasis on the process related to zoning that's 6448 05:00:08,740 --> 05:00:09,319 completely 6449 05:00:09,319 --> 05:00:12,299 understand and it seems like from I believe what Deborah 6450 05:00:12,299 --> 05:00:13,200 said that there 6451 05:00:13,200 --> 05:00:16,759 might be opportunities when we look at the holistic rewrite 6452 05:00:16,759 --> 05:00:17,479 to look at sub 6453 05:00:17,479 --> 05:00:21,810 chapter 19 and kind of dive more into that so I appreciate 6454 05:00:21,810 --> 05:00:22,759 the confirmation 6455 05:00:22,759 --> 05:00:30,779 thank you I don't see any other questions this is a public 6456 05:00:30,779 --> 05:00:31,439 hearing and I 6457 05:00:31,439 --> 05:00:34,259 don't think there's anybody else left to speak on this item 6458 05:00:34,259 --> 05:00:35,200 so I'm gonna close 6459 05:00:35,200 --> 05:00:39,029 the public hearing and I'm gonna open the floor for 6460 05:00:39,029 --> 05:00:40,959 discussion and emotion 6461 05:00:41,479 --> 05:00:54,319 Commissioner Beck I got the right one DCA 17 oh one a one C 6462 05:00:54,319 --> 05:00:58,759 yes with the 6463 05:00:58,759 --> 05:01:02,389 stipulation that the comments that we agreed upon today are 6464 05:01:02,389 --> 05:01:03,400 included in the 6465 05:01:03,400 --> 05:01:09,159 rewrite in the revision that covered all 6466 05:01:09,279 --> 05:01:17,409 Richard okay yeah okay can I go ahead and just maybe repeat 6467 05:01:17,409 --> 05:01:18,000 what you were 6468 05:01:18,000 --> 05:01:21,759 saying sure was that you want to that your motion is to 6469 05:01:21,759 --> 05:01:23,000 approve all 20 6470 05:01:23,000 --> 05:01:26,200 revisions as provided in the notes in addition to the 6471 05:01:26,200 --> 05:01:27,520 definition of the wet 6472 05:01:27,520 --> 05:01:30,740 lands and the definition of the upland habitat and also to 6473 05:01:30,740 --> 05:01:31,520 include the 6474 05:01:31,520 --> 05:01:38,849 expansion of significant under 37 17 5d to include 50% as 6475 05:01:38,849 --> 05:01:40,639 being significant yeah 6476 05:01:40,639 --> 05:01:46,520 well and what about the a ESA process do we want to attach 6477 05:01:46,520 --> 05:01:47,360 that here well it 6478 05:01:47,360 --> 05:01:51,040 should be kept it separate that's it would be your motion 6479 05:01:51,040 --> 05:01:54,319 but but it was my 6480 05:01:54,319 --> 05:01:58,490 yeah so my opinion on that portion of it if it was to be 6481 05:01:58,490 --> 05:02:00,560 included is that you 6482 05:02:00,560 --> 05:02:04,080 would give staff and especially our department a chance to 6483 05:02:04,080 --> 05:02:04,759 review that 6484 05:02:04,759 --> 05:02:09,360 process and how it impacts other provisions okay let's 6485 05:02:09,360 --> 05:02:09,840 leave that off 6486 05:02:09,840 --> 05:02:14,400 then let's do everything you said before I open my mouth 6487 05:02:15,159 --> 05:02:18,270 Commissioner Ellis I will second that do I need to restate 6488 05:02:18,270 --> 05:02:19,720 it because I wrote it 6489 05:02:19,720 --> 05:02:24,669 just like you said it Victor so I will second it and I will 6490 05:02:24,669 --> 05:02:26,240 say with the hope 6491 05:02:26,240 --> 05:02:29,470 that we can move this along because I think we've vetted it 6492 05:02:29,470 --> 05:02:30,560 really well and I 6493 05:02:30,560 --> 05:02:33,229 would hope that we continue the the discussion for the 6494 05:02:33,229 --> 05:02:34,279 process and we can do 6495 05:02:34,279 --> 05:02:39,529 that properly we have a first and a second for approval 6496 05:02:39,529 --> 05:02:40,919 with the conditions 6497 05:02:40,919 --> 05:02:49,720 added by legal any discussion 6498 05:02:56,240 --> 05:03:06,020 well I was going to make a comment if we weren't going to 6499 05:03:06,020 --> 05:03:08,000 call for and I'm a call 6500 05:03:08,000 --> 05:03:13,639 for a building board I'm not going to support the motion 6501 05:03:13,639 --> 05:03:14,479 because I'd like to 6502 05:03:14,479 --> 05:03:17,639 see the changes that have been talked about cleaned up and 6503 05:03:17,639 --> 05:03:18,639 brought back and 6504 05:03:18,639 --> 05:03:25,349 have a final clean look at the ordinance I'd like to see 30 6505 05:03:25,349 --> 05:03:26,840 days and then have it 6506 05:03:26,840 --> 05:03:30,560 back cleaned up and ready to move forward and so I would 6507 05:03:30,560 --> 05:03:31,240 support 6508 05:03:31,240 --> 05:03:34,380 continuance for 30 days to allow the changes that we've 6509 05:03:34,380 --> 05:03:35,560 talked about the 6510 05:03:35,560 --> 05:03:40,950 phase one some of the other items that have been mentioned 6511 05:03:40,950 --> 05:03:42,520 and then clean it up 6512 05:03:42,520 --> 05:03:50,270 and I'd also like to see some discussion of the city taking 6513 05:03:50,270 --> 05:03:52,439 these areas and 6514 05:03:52,439 --> 05:03:54,959 designating them in for the public good and yet the 6515 05:03:54,959 --> 05:03:56,439 individual property owners 6516 05:03:56,439 --> 05:03:59,650 are bearing the burden of that and I have said it over and 6517 05:03:59,650 --> 05:04:00,639 over again on this 6518 05:04:00,639 --> 05:04:03,169 Commission that I don't have a problem with the 6519 05:04:03,169 --> 05:04:04,799 environmental areas and I have 6520 05:04:04,799 --> 05:04:07,900 a problem with preserving trees what I do have a problem 6521 05:04:07,900 --> 05:04:09,220 with is if it's public 6522 05:04:09,220 --> 05:04:12,459 policy and it's for the good of the community the community 6523 05:04:12,459 --> 05:04:13,360 should bear the 6524 05:04:13,360 --> 05:04:17,150 cost of those items and we're gonna with the ordinance here 6525 05:04:17,150 --> 05:04:18,400 we're going to raise 6526 05:04:18,400 --> 05:04:22,490 the percentages on the upland habitat which puts a greater 6527 05:04:22,490 --> 05:04:23,759 burden on individual 6528 05:04:23,759 --> 05:04:26,840 property owners they may have audit thinking they could do 6529 05:04:26,840 --> 05:04:27,400 a certain 6530 05:04:27,400 --> 05:04:32,900 percentage and we're changing that and I'm not comfortable 6531 05:04:32,900 --> 05:04:35,439 voting for that for 6532 05:04:35,439 --> 05:04:40,509 those reasons so Commissioner Beck do you want to speak 6533 05:04:40,509 --> 05:04:41,400 before I call for a vote 6534 05:04:41,400 --> 05:04:44,819 on the board or yes Commissioner Beck okay and again I 6535 05:04:44,819 --> 05:04:46,080 empathize with your 6536 05:04:46,080 --> 05:04:51,110 concerns about that I but I you know hesitate to hold this 6537 05:04:51,110 --> 05:04:52,240 up we've done this 6538 05:04:52,240 --> 05:04:55,119 with the tree co and it just keeps getting held there's no 6539 05:04:55,119 --> 05:04:55,840 reason not to 6540 05:04:55,840 --> 05:04:59,720 move this forward I would be with you side by side to deal 6541 05:04:59,720 --> 05:05:00,439 with these finer 6542 05:05:00,439 --> 05:05:03,650 points that you want to deal I don't think we need to hold 6543 05:05:03,650 --> 05:05:05,080 this revision up 6544 05:05:05,080 --> 05:05:08,439 to do that though and I completely agree with you that I 6545 05:05:08,439 --> 05:05:09,520 think it's time that the 6546 05:05:09,520 --> 05:05:12,169 city bucked up and said look you know if we're gonna 6547 05:05:12,169 --> 05:05:13,000 preserve some of these 6548 05:05:13,000 --> 05:05:16,009 areas then you know we need to do that not put it on the 6549 05:05:16,009 --> 05:05:17,400 owner so I would 6550 05:05:17,400 --> 05:05:21,680 encourage to approve this revision and move forward and 6551 05:05:21,680 --> 05:05:22,319 then deal with these 6552 05:05:22,319 --> 05:05:25,360 other things as time goes by rather than drag it out there 6553 05:05:25,360 --> 05:05:26,759 much longer thank you 6554 05:05:26,759 --> 05:05:30,869 well I'm glad that we agree on that because I think the 6555 05:05:30,869 --> 05:05:31,959 concern that I have 6556 05:05:31,959 --> 05:05:34,840 is that when the ordinance passes and it goes from here out 6557 05:05:34,840 --> 05:05:35,680 in the community 6558 05:05:35,680 --> 05:05:38,319 says you'll preserve it the discussion and the opportunity 6559 05:05:38,319 --> 05:05:39,000 for the city to 6560 05:05:39,000 --> 05:05:43,299 step up and say we're increasing the burden is gone away it 6561 05:05:43,299 --> 05:05:44,319 's now regulated 6562 05:05:44,319 --> 05:05:46,770 and it's by ordinance and there's no discussion of the city 6563 05:05:46,770 --> 05:05:47,439 's going to step 6564 05:05:47,439 --> 05:05:50,819 up and go by those areas or compensate property owners for 6565 05:05:50,819 --> 05:05:51,840 it it's going to be 6566 05:05:51,840 --> 05:05:55,540 done and there won't be that conversation that was the 6567 05:05:55,540 --> 05:05:56,279 concern I had 6568 05:05:56,279 --> 05:05:59,380 with the tree code that's the same concern I have here as 6569 05:05:59,380 --> 05:06:00,319 we continue to 6570 05:06:00,319 --> 05:06:03,740 increase regulation for the public good at the expense of 6571 05:06:03,740 --> 05:06:04,880 private property 6572 05:06:04,880 --> 05:06:08,490 owners and I think we can keep moving them forward I'm 6573 05:06:08,490 --> 05:06:09,080 gonna be the lone 6574 05:06:09,080 --> 05:06:13,009 voice maybe to vote against it on that principle and so be 6575 05:06:13,009 --> 05:06:14,560 it but I am going to 6576 05:06:14,560 --> 05:06:18,189 state emphatically that when we pass these ordinances this 6577 05:06:18,189 --> 05:06:19,880 way that's now the 6578 05:06:19,880 --> 05:06:22,599 law and there is no incentive for the city now to come out 6579 05:06:22,599 --> 05:06:23,400 and say well we've 6580 05:06:23,400 --> 05:06:27,880 taken it from 25 to 50 or 15 to 30 and we're gonna pay for 6581 05:06:27,880 --> 05:06:29,159 the difference it's 6582 05:06:29,159 --> 05:06:31,790 now that's the law and you guys just lost the use of 6583 05:06:31,790 --> 05:06:33,159 whatever property that 6584 05:06:33,159 --> 05:06:35,650 is in the value and that's the end of the discussion and I 6585 05:06:35,650 --> 05:06:36,520 have a problem with 6586 05:06:36,520 --> 05:06:40,450 that so I'm not gonna vote for it because of that it's a 6587 05:06:40,450 --> 05:06:41,759 philosophical 6588 05:06:41,759 --> 05:06:46,319 issue it is a big issue it's not for me to solve it's for 6589 05:06:46,319 --> 05:06:48,060 me to state it the 6590 05:06:48,060 --> 05:06:51,099 Commission votes how they are and the general public or 6591 05:06:51,099 --> 05:06:52,259 city council can hear 6592 05:06:52,259 --> 05:06:56,560 it and say you know what we think that's wrong and we don't 6593 05:06:56,560 --> 05:06:57,159 think it's right to 6594 05:06:57,159 --> 05:07:00,680 take people's property we need to if it's important enough 6595 05:07:00,680 --> 05:07:01,439 we need as a 6596 05:07:01,439 --> 05:07:03,689 community you need to raise the funds that we need to go 6597 05:07:03,689 --> 05:07:04,520 buy these areas and 6598 05:07:04,520 --> 05:07:07,479 we'll protect them for the public good from here on out and 6599 05:07:07,479 --> 05:07:08,520 these items don't 6600 05:07:08,520 --> 05:07:11,400 continue to come back to us over and over again and we 6601 05:07:11,400 --> 05:07:12,799 argue about whether 6602 05:07:12,799 --> 05:07:15,490 it's an alternate or not or how much you can take whatever 6603 05:07:15,490 --> 05:07:16,680 it's the city owns it 6604 05:07:16,680 --> 05:07:20,310 see maintained at City Park Department whoever at the city 6605 05:07:20,310 --> 05:07:21,520 level owns it and 6606 05:07:21,520 --> 05:07:23,880 takes care of it and it's now public good bought with 6607 05:07:23,880 --> 05:07:24,840 public funds and pay 6608 05:07:24,840 --> 05:07:29,790 for and private individuals are out of that mix and because 6609 05:07:29,790 --> 05:07:31,200 of that that's why 6610 05:07:31,200 --> 05:07:33,880 I'm not gonna vote for this it's why I didn't vote for the 6611 05:07:33,880 --> 05:07:34,860 tree code and I'm 6612 05:07:34,860 --> 05:07:38,580 gonna stay consistent to those principles so Commissioner 6613 05:07:38,580 --> 05:07:40,400 Sanchez I'd 6614 05:07:40,400 --> 05:07:43,310 like to just say that I agree with you I think we need to 6615 05:07:43,310 --> 05:07:44,279 really get everything 6616 05:07:44,279 --> 05:07:47,330 put in writing I think there's been a lot of discussion on 6617 05:07:47,330 --> 05:07:48,240 this issue more 6618 05:07:48,240 --> 05:07:51,529 than you know we've gone through what two three weeks two 6619 05:07:51,529 --> 05:07:52,639 three meetings on 6620 05:07:52,639 --> 05:07:56,860 this and I still think there's a lot of misunderstanding on 6621 05:07:56,860 --> 05:07:57,639 what what should be 6622 05:07:57,639 --> 05:08:02,069 written on the regulation so I'd like to see it in print so 6623 05:08:02,069 --> 05:08:02,840 I can actually read 6624 05:08:02,840 --> 05:08:08,069 what we're saying what we want and then I think there's no 6625 05:08:08,069 --> 05:08:09,479 problem with we 6626 05:08:09,479 --> 05:08:14,119 shouldn't be in a hurry get it get it passed so that in you 6627 05:08:14,119 --> 05:08:16,439 know I just 6628 05:08:16,439 --> 05:08:19,599 believe that let's get it if we have to have more meetings 6629 05:08:19,599 --> 05:08:20,720 on this let's do it 6630 05:08:20,720 --> 05:08:25,069 it doesn't it doesn't bother me to to do it right or figure 6631 05:08:25,069 --> 05:08:26,520 out what we want on 6632 05:08:26,520 --> 05:08:30,950 on this regulation without I just want to be able to read 6633 05:08:30,950 --> 05:08:34,560 what we're voting on 6634 05:08:34,759 --> 05:08:37,759 Commissioner Ellis 6635 05:08:40,240 --> 05:08:44,520 thank you chair I think Commissioner Roselle's ahead of me 6636 05:08:44,520 --> 05:08:44,799 I'm sorry it 6637 05:08:44,799 --> 05:08:47,049 bumped and I missed saying it Commissioner Roselle my 6638 05:08:47,049 --> 05:08:47,759 apologies it 6639 05:08:47,759 --> 05:08:55,799 doesn't matter chair does the delay not the delay would a 6640 05:08:55,799 --> 05:08:56,720 continuance of this 6641 05:08:56,720 --> 05:09:00,869 item affect the work being done on the DDT see rewrite 6642 05:09:00,869 --> 05:09:02,439 because if we if the 6643 05:09:02,439 --> 05:09:07,860 chair proposes a 30-day continuance that puts us to at 6644 05:09:07,860 --> 05:09:10,080 least two meetings into 6645 05:09:10,080 --> 05:09:16,150 the DDC schedule we were presented earlier a week ahead of 6646 05:09:16,150 --> 05:09:17,720 the zoning map 6647 05:09:17,720 --> 05:09:22,950 proposal and so I'm curious about the implications I'm not 6648 05:09:22,950 --> 05:09:23,799 opposed to 6649 05:09:23,799 --> 05:09:27,880 continuing for 30 days to to have this in writing I'll be 6650 05:09:27,880 --> 05:09:29,599 honest I don't I don't 6651 05:09:29,599 --> 05:09:32,959 think the the increase in protection is gonna go away in 30 6652 05:09:32,959 --> 05:09:34,040 days what seems to 6653 05:09:34,040 --> 05:09:38,720 be the principal issue for for your vote nevertheless I don 6654 05:09:38,720 --> 05:09:39,520 't know if it's it's 6655 05:09:39,520 --> 05:09:43,150 ever a harm to see things more in the language more drawn 6656 05:09:43,150 --> 05:09:44,479 out and fleshed out 6657 05:09:44,479 --> 05:09:47,029 rather than a comment section I'm not opposed to that I 6658 05:09:47,029 --> 05:09:48,639 just would like staff's 6659 05:09:48,639 --> 05:09:53,270 and point input on the negative impact it might have if any 6660 05:09:53,270 --> 05:09:54,959 to the DDT see 6661 05:09:54,959 --> 05:10:00,520 rewrite efforts it wouldn't really affect it since we're 6662 05:10:00,520 --> 05:10:01,200 gonna hold those 6663 05:10:01,200 --> 05:10:03,799 review meetings as a separate meeting we would just keep 6664 05:10:03,799 --> 05:10:04,959 this on out whether we 6665 05:10:04,959 --> 05:10:08,520 hold it with a at a regular meeting we can do it either way 6666 05:10:08,520 --> 05:10:09,639 but it wouldn't 6667 05:10:09,639 --> 05:10:15,000 necessarily delay the project thank you so my next question 6668 05:10:15,000 --> 05:10:20,880 would be I guess to 6669 05:10:20,880 --> 05:10:24,680 take advantage and captivate most effectively the 30 days 6670 05:10:24,680 --> 05:10:25,520 if that was to 6671 05:10:25,520 --> 05:10:30,049 gain support here what would be the charge the city is it 6672 05:10:30,049 --> 05:10:31,759 just to copy and 6673 05:10:31,759 --> 05:10:34,889 paste the responses and chair I'm asking me you 6674 05:10:34,889 --> 05:10:36,639 specifically is that what you'd 6675 05:10:36,639 --> 05:10:39,310 want to see the next 30 days what else would you want to 6676 05:10:39,310 --> 05:10:40,560 see I'd like to see 6677 05:10:40,560 --> 05:10:44,740 the comments pasted the definitions that we've talked about 6678 05:10:44,740 --> 05:10:45,720 the clarification 6679 05:10:45,720 --> 05:10:50,950 on the significant the phase one thoroughly research to 6680 05:10:50,950 --> 05:10:52,279 make sure that 6681 05:10:52,279 --> 05:10:56,709 that works because I think that's a huge glaring issue that 6682 05:10:56,709 --> 05:10:58,119 I'm surprised I'm the 6683 05:10:58,119 --> 05:11:01,150 only one that's brought that up and how that gets addressed 6684 05:11:01,150 --> 05:11:03,799 at this late stage 6685 05:11:03,799 --> 05:11:06,569 and then it'd be great if we could have a little bit of 6686 05:11:06,569 --> 05:11:07,599 discussion on the 6687 05:11:07,599 --> 05:11:12,360 process of how the alternative ESA thing would would work 6688 05:11:12,360 --> 05:11:13,279 hopefully in 30 days 6689 05:11:13,279 --> 05:11:16,520 there's an ability to sit down and talk about how does that 6690 05:11:16,520 --> 05:11:17,680 actually work and 6691 05:11:17,680 --> 05:11:20,799 get more streamlined those are the things that I would 6692 05:11:20,799 --> 05:11:23,000 think it goes to city 6693 05:11:23,000 --> 05:11:25,400 council then city council can decide how they're going to 6694 05:11:25,400 --> 05:11:26,279 pay for some of these 6695 05:11:26,279 --> 05:11:29,909 things or not but at least the process of the ordinance is 6696 05:11:29,909 --> 05:11:32,479 very clean the 6697 05:11:32,479 --> 05:11:35,729 problems with it are corrected the notifications to the 6698 05:11:35,729 --> 05:11:37,479 general public are 6699 05:11:37,479 --> 05:11:41,490 now out there people are aware of it and I think those are 6700 05:11:41,490 --> 05:11:42,799 bare minimums of 6701 05:11:42,799 --> 05:11:46,599 things that need to be addressed before it moves on and is 6702 05:11:46,599 --> 05:11:47,240 more than likely 6703 05:11:47,240 --> 05:11:49,759 adopted 6704 05:11:52,680 --> 05:11:57,000 that's all Commissioner Ellis Commissioner Ellis thank you 6705 05:11:57,000 --> 05:11:58,279 chair okay my concern is 6706 05:11:58,279 --> 05:12:01,490 you know to delay this 30 days again puts this in perpetual 6707 05:12:01,490 --> 05:12:02,400 purgatory and it 6708 05:12:02,400 --> 05:12:05,919 goes nowhere I think it's what you stated before chair and 6709 05:12:05,919 --> 05:12:06,479 it's with all 6710 05:12:06,479 --> 05:12:09,279 due respect I think it's just philosophically a difference 6711 05:12:09,279 --> 05:12:09,599 I don't 6712 05:12:09,599 --> 05:12:12,259 think 30 days is going to change your mind at all because I 6713 05:12:12,259 --> 05:12:13,240 do think that you 6714 05:12:13,240 --> 05:12:16,450 want the ESA ordinance to go away and effectively be 6715 05:12:16,450 --> 05:12:17,639 written be written and 6716 05:12:17,639 --> 05:12:21,159 scrubbed all together so I don't think that's going to do 6717 05:12:21,159 --> 05:12:21,759 anything I think 6718 05:12:21,759 --> 05:12:25,049 that's just going to invite more confusion to these changes 6719 05:12:25,049 --> 05:12:25,599 that are 6720 05:12:25,599 --> 05:12:29,209 proposed and I'm not saying that your changes aren't valid 6721 05:12:29,209 --> 05:12:30,319 like I've said many 6722 05:12:30,319 --> 05:12:33,849 times the process I brought that up several weeks ago this 6723 05:12:33,849 --> 05:12:35,319 phase one that we 6724 05:12:35,319 --> 05:12:38,470 heard to today those are things that could be continued to 6725 05:12:38,470 --> 05:12:39,520 be discussed with 6726 05:12:39,520 --> 05:12:44,689 the rewrite but to delay this again I forecast that being 6727 05:12:44,689 --> 05:12:46,159 then it's just going 6728 05:12:46,159 --> 05:12:48,709 to be out there again and it's not going to move forward at 6729 05:12:48,709 --> 05:12:50,020 all that's my 6730 05:12:50,020 --> 05:12:51,900 concern I don't think that's going to make a difference I 6731 05:12:51,900 --> 05:12:52,720 think City Council 6732 05:12:52,720 --> 05:12:54,950 is going to get a clean version of this I don't I won't 6733 05:12:54,950 --> 05:12:55,799 speak for Deborah but 6734 05:12:55,799 --> 05:12:59,430 I'll let her speak I think she'll have that rewritten for 6735 05:12:59,430 --> 05:13:00,799 them with our 6736 05:13:00,799 --> 05:13:03,759 recommendations out of that spreadsheet form and that's 6737 05:13:03,759 --> 05:13:05,000 what they'll be voting 6738 05:13:05,000 --> 05:13:09,349 on so that's just my comments to the 30 days I'd love to 6739 05:13:09,349 --> 05:13:10,400 take a vote on this and 6740 05:13:10,400 --> 05:13:17,080 we'll see where it goes okay any other discussion 6741 05:13:21,000 --> 05:13:23,220 with that and there is no further comment and I'll call the 6742 05:13:23,220 --> 05:13:24,720 question and 6743 05:13:24,720 --> 05:13:30,529 we will vote on the motion to approve with the conditions 6744 05:13:30,529 --> 05:13:32,080 added by legal 6745 05:13:34,240 --> 05:13:40,639 clarified by legal move forward by Commissioner Beck clear 6746 05:13:44,639 --> 05:13:50,279 so we will call for a vote on the board 6747 05:14:02,040 --> 05:14:10,939 the motion carries four to two that will move us to our 6748 05:14:10,939 --> 05:14:13,919 project matrix 6749 05:14:14,639 --> 05:14:22,159 just wanted to mention I know there's there's a couple of 6750 05:14:22,159 --> 05:14:24,119 items on on the 6751 05:14:24,119 --> 05:14:29,799 matrix that mentions what can be discussed at at work 6752 05:14:29,799 --> 05:14:30,840 session that legal 6753 05:14:30,840 --> 05:14:33,990 was going to provide a sort of an overview and one thing 6754 05:14:33,990 --> 05:14:34,720 Victor and I 6755 05:14:34,720 --> 05:14:38,169 talked about was setting it setting some time aside one as 6756 05:14:38,169 --> 05:14:39,400 a group to kind of go 6757 05:14:39,400 --> 05:14:43,540 over what you can and can't discuss but also the types of 6758 05:14:43,540 --> 05:14:45,240 applications just to 6759 05:14:45,240 --> 05:14:48,159 kind of refresh it so everybody everybody knows or new 6760 05:14:48,159 --> 05:14:49,159 members are sort 6761 05:14:49,159 --> 05:14:51,930 of aware of what's what what the duties are but then also 6762 05:14:51,930 --> 05:14:53,119 scheduling some time 6763 05:14:53,119 --> 05:14:56,020 individually with each of you just to answer any any 6764 05:14:56,020 --> 05:14:58,240 questions and and go over 6765 05:14:58,240 --> 05:15:01,000 a little bit more detail if you like so just wanted to to 6766 05:15:01,000 --> 05:15:01,959 mention that offer 6767 05:15:01,959 --> 05:15:05,680 offer that so we'll be contacting you in the in the near 6768 05:15:05,680 --> 05:15:06,919 future within the next 6769 05:15:06,919 --> 05:15:10,209 couple weeks to start to start scheduling some of those 6770 05:15:10,209 --> 05:15:11,680 times the other 6771 05:15:11,680 --> 05:15:14,330 thing I did want to mention because I know traffic you know 6772 05:15:14,330 --> 05:15:15,599 has been a hot hot 6773 05:15:15,599 --> 05:15:20,560 topic it always is and will continue to be so I did speak 6774 05:15:20,560 --> 05:15:22,080 to Todd Estes our 6775 05:15:22,080 --> 05:15:27,200 city engineer as well as pre-tem our traffic engineer there 6776 05:15:27,200 --> 05:15:28,479 they're working 6777 05:15:28,479 --> 05:15:32,040 on a number of different things what I've asked them to do 6778 05:15:32,040 --> 05:15:33,560 is come hopefully 6779 05:15:33,560 --> 05:15:37,650 in March worst case April to a work session and devote some 6780 05:15:37,650 --> 05:15:38,439 time specifically 6781 05:15:38,439 --> 05:15:43,200 to transportation so they can talk about the the impact fee 6782 05:15:43,200 --> 05:15:45,479 CIP how projects make 6783 05:15:45,479 --> 05:15:49,360 it to the CIP list from the impact fee and they can kind of 6784 05:15:49,360 --> 05:15:50,119 explain and give 6785 05:15:50,119 --> 05:15:52,959 everybody that that overview so everyone understands that 6786 05:15:52,959 --> 05:15:54,159 but also where they're 6787 05:15:54,159 --> 05:15:58,610 headed with with really creating a true thoroughfare plan 6788 05:15:58,610 --> 05:16:00,279 that the mobility plan 6789 05:16:00,279 --> 05:16:03,840 is part of bike plan this bike and pen plan is part of that 6790 05:16:03,840 --> 05:16:05,000 I'm so start to 6791 05:16:05,000 --> 05:16:07,819 look at it more in a holistic manner so as as you're up 6792 05:16:07,819 --> 05:16:09,159 here making decisions 6793 05:16:09,159 --> 05:16:11,470 you kind of have that have that that background and 6794 05:16:11,470 --> 05:16:12,639 understanding at least 6795 05:16:12,639 --> 05:16:15,310 where on the engineering side where they're headed with 6796 05:16:15,310 --> 05:16:16,279 some of these things 6797 05:16:16,279 --> 05:16:19,799 so just wanted to give that update and happy to bring any 6798 05:16:19,799 --> 05:16:21,000 other things to you 6799 05:16:21,000 --> 05:16:26,610 that you so desire Commissioner Roselle thank you chair I 6800 05:16:26,610 --> 05:16:27,880 got the email I think 6801 05:16:27,880 --> 05:16:31,090 we all did about the downtown implementation plan about 6802 05:16:31,090 --> 05:16:31,599 form-based 6803 05:16:31,599 --> 05:16:38,099 code I'm still curious about is that is that happening are 6804 05:16:38,099 --> 05:16:39,200 we are we transition 6805 05:16:39,200 --> 05:16:44,639 to form-based code downtown not not necessarily we're in 6806 05:16:44,639 --> 05:16:46,040 the process now of 6807 05:16:46,040 --> 05:16:51,040 looking at some design criteria specific some of this will 6808 05:16:51,040 --> 05:16:52,319 be incorporated into 6809 05:16:52,319 --> 05:16:56,119 the DDC rewrite what we're looking at right now though in 6810 05:16:56,119 --> 05:16:57,200 sort of the short 6811 05:16:57,200 --> 05:17:01,040 term is looking at some design criteria specifically for 6812 05:17:01,040 --> 05:17:02,400 what we'll call call 6813 05:17:02,400 --> 05:17:06,029 the core of the downtown kind of around around the the 6814 05:17:06,029 --> 05:17:07,720 square and a few blocks 6815 05:17:07,720 --> 05:17:14,599 off and then it's probably more of a hybrid I think 6816 05:17:14,599 --> 05:17:16,479 personally I'm not a huge 6817 05:17:16,479 --> 05:17:20,650 fan of a form-based it doesn't mean it's not great or doesn 6818 05:17:20,650 --> 05:17:22,479 't work sometimes it 6819 05:17:22,479 --> 05:17:27,430 can be challenging particularly in the built environment 6820 05:17:27,430 --> 05:17:30,439 that we have downtown 6821 05:17:30,439 --> 05:17:33,779 but I think will I think when you see where we're starting 6822 05:17:33,779 --> 05:17:34,840 to head with some 6823 05:17:34,840 --> 05:17:38,930 of these design criteria and least manual it'll it'll it'll 6824 05:17:38,930 --> 05:17:39,880 easily paint 6825 05:17:39,880 --> 05:17:44,470 that picture as far as the type of development rather than 6826 05:17:44,470 --> 05:17:45,240 being so 6827 05:17:45,240 --> 05:17:48,479 prescriptive of you know your your Florida Florida ceiling 6828 05:17:48,479 --> 05:17:49,400 height can't be 6829 05:17:49,400 --> 05:17:52,540 greater than 10 feet and then we get into situations where 6830 05:17:52,540 --> 05:17:53,680 somebody needs 10 6831 05:17:53,680 --> 05:17:56,439 and a half and they're they're going for a variance I don't 6832 05:17:56,439 --> 05:17:57,439 want to get into that 6833 05:17:57,439 --> 05:17:59,580 kind of that kind of situation at least that's not what I 6834 05:17:59,580 --> 05:17:59,919 would I would 6835 05:17:59,919 --> 05:18:03,020 recommend so we are in the process of actually now we're 6836 05:18:03,020 --> 05:18:04,159 working on that so 6837 05:18:04,159 --> 05:18:07,200 that'll be another item that will be that will be brought 6838 05:18:07,200 --> 05:18:07,959 forward to you 6839 05:18:07,959 --> 05:18:12,680 perfect thank you Commissioner Ellis thank you chair not 6840 05:18:12,680 --> 05:18:13,119 really for the 6841 05:18:13,119 --> 05:18:16,729 matrix but I just wanted to take the opportunity to mention 6842 05:18:16,729 --> 05:18:17,799 that the oak 6843 05:18:17,799 --> 05:18:21,009 gateway plan small area plan committee that we're on is 6844 05:18:21,009 --> 05:18:22,759 tomorrow at Calhoun 6845 05:18:22,759 --> 05:18:26,139 from 6 to 730 it's for the stations will be set up to have 6846 05:18:26,139 --> 05:18:28,000 public input so please 6847 05:18:28,000 --> 05:18:31,610 if you want to come and give your input that to that area 6848 05:18:31,610 --> 05:18:33,000 know anyone pass along 6849 05:18:33,000 --> 05:18:35,040 the word it's going to be set up really well by the 6850 05:18:35,040 --> 05:18:36,240 consultants and it's super 6851 05:18:36,240 --> 05:18:39,049 important and it's going really well so this is our first 6852 05:18:39,049 --> 05:18:40,400 opportunity for public 6853 05:18:40,400 --> 05:18:46,119 comment so 6 to 730 tomorrow Calhoun thanks for the 6854 05:18:46,119 --> 05:18:48,119 reminder with that I don't 6855 05:18:48,119 --> 05:18:53,689 see any other items so at 943 we'll close our meeting 6856 05:18:53,689 --> 05:18:55,479 tonight thank you 6857 05:18:55,479 --> 05:18:57,880 everyone