Welcome to the City of Denton Planning and Zoning
Commission meeting for January 10th, 2018.
This will be our work session.
This meeting has been duly posted and we do have a quorum
present and I will call us to
order at 5-0-2.
Our first order of business will be to receive
clarification of agenda items and so that
will move us in our work session down to our consent agenda
.
And if there are questions, Haley can come and answer those
on the consent agenda.
The Denton traffic to partners.
Okay.
Haley, you want to come up to the mic?
Commissioner Beck.
Thank you, Chair.
Just a quick question.
On the Google map thing, it looks like there's a gas well
there now.
So is that on lot 8?
Yes, sir.
That is on lot 8 and there is an access easement and a
pipeline easement coming off of Jim
Crystal there.
Okay.
Is that remaining?
They're not removing that?
It is to remain.
There's an approved gas well site plan for that site and as
far as I know it will remain
there.
Okay.
Thank you.
Any other questions for Haley on this item?
No?
Okay.
That will then take us to our items for individual
consideration and I'll call on Haley for a
presentation on P17-10 Creekside on Ryan Road.
Yes.
So some of you may be familiar with Creekside.
It's a large parcel of unannexed property.
It was under a non-annexation agreement for several years
and when the last of those was
about to expire in 2016, they entered into a pre-annexation
development agreement with
the city.
So it subdivided the entire parcel into three tracts of
land.
This is just one of those tracts.
It's tract 1C in the agreement and it is for a single
family subdivision that will have
137 residential lots and three common area lots.
You can see the plat has multiple pages here but it would
be your standard single family
at roughly an NR3 density is what we would be looking at
here.
And we did put this on individual consideration because
there is a section in the agreement
that requires the gas well on site to be plugged before the
final plat is approved so we just
wanted to be abundantly clear about that that they will not
get a final plat approved for
this until such time as the gas well is plugged.
Commissioner Beck.
And on that note, so those, I guess those are storage tanks
that are there now too?
They have all been removed at this point.
The operator is in the process.
Oh, the tanks are already gone?
Yes.
Yeah, they're in the process of closing the site.
I just wanted that for clarification.
Thank you.
Commissioner Sullivan.
Sorry.
Sir, my understanding is the last traffic survey was done
in 2014.
Is that right for this, for Ryan Road?
I know there was one done in 2014 for a subdivision further
to the west from this property.
I'm not sure if there's been anything done in time since
then though.
Okay.
Also, how does the impact fee or whatever it's called now,
how is it assessed since
on the street side of this subdivision is not nearly as big
as the whole subdivision?
How is it determined who's going to take care of the street
and when is that determined?
My understanding is all of that was laid out in the pre-
annexation development agreement.
There were agreed upon amounts for roadway impact fees and
all of the impact fees that
would be associated with the development at that time
knowing the full scope of all three
tracks that were intended to be developed.
So all of that has been kind of predetermined at this point
.
Okay.
When is that going to happen though?
I mean, is there a deadline by which I think it's $589,000
is going to be spent to widen
or to do something with Ryan Road is not specified exactly
what's going to happen.
And so I'm just curious when is that street improvement
supposed to happen?
I'm not sure when the improvements will happen.
I know the impact fees will be assessed and paid at the
time of permitting for the individual
building permits.
So it will be split over all of these individual lots as
they're developed in terms of when
it's paid.
Because I know Ryan Meadows on the other end, on the west
end, there hasn't been anything
done to the street that they front on Ryan Road.
Yeah.
And they've been there for a year or more.
Yeah, I'm not aware of any immediate plans for improvements
on Ryan Road, but the impact
fees will be paid with each permit.
Okay.
Haley, you may want to give a clarification to Commissioner
Sullivan that it's at the
city's option, whether the perimeter street paving is done
or whether they collect the
fees.
Yeah.
In this case, the agreement outlined how much would be paid
for each phase of this development
for impact fees for road, water and sewer.
So Commissioner Smith, thank you, Chair.
Clarification on the bottom of the plat there.
It says street D just ends and they're in the map.
Is that connecting to the neighborhood that's south of that
track?
What exactly is happening there?
Yeah.
Let's see which.
I can't quite tell.
It goes further south, Creek View, whatever.
Creek Day.
Oh, does it?
I'm sorry.
Yeah, it does tie into the existing subdivision.
I don't see the exact street that you were referencing, but
it ties into the existing
subdivision.
So basically, my question is I just-
Street E.
I was reading it.
I wasn't paying attention.
I looked at that.
I didn't flip the next page.
Does this plat eventually connect the neighborhood from
Ryan all the way down to Hickory Creek?
Or is there through the neighborhood?
Or is the only way for people to get to Hickory Creek going
to be go back out to Teasley or
go back out to 1830?
It would be connected through the neighborhoods.
Yeah.
That was a question I had from a resident.
Another thing that was brought up.
Commissioner Sullivan talked about the traffic impact
analysis.
Can we get any information on that?
There was one done in 2014 for this.
Can we get a refresher on that during the actual meeting at
630?
I could look into that.
To my knowledge, there hasn't been one done for this subdiv
ision.
The one I think from 2014 was for another subdivision along
Ryan Road.
What say does the city have in requiring the developer to
put in acceleration and deceleration
lanes coming into the neighborhood itself off of Ryan Road?
At this point in time, is there anything we could do?
Honestly, I'm not certain on that.
Since they did enter into the agreement that specified how
much they would contribute towards
the roadways, I don't know that there would be any room for
that, but we could look into
it.
I'm just bringing up concerns that was brought to me by a
couple of different citizens in
the neighborhood that abuts it.
The last thing was, within the preliminary plotting process
that we're in, what landscaping
requirements are there currently?
Is it zoned NR2?
At this point, it's technically still in the city's ETJ.
Their agreement requires that once their final plan is
approved, they apply for annexation
into the city.
Then at that point, it stipulates that they would apply for
an NR3 zoning designation for
the property.
In terms of landscaping, the agreement outlined a very
specific landscaping plan for the entire
subdivision as well as the other tracts.
The primary feature in this portion would be ... Let me get
to the right page.
All of the trees that exist along the west side of the
property, most of them are to
remain in place.
The same thing on the south side.
Okay.
Those are the biggest questions I had there.
One other thing we brought up, what are the other ... You
said this is tract 1C.
What are the other tracts within this?
Is it going to be one?
It's kind of hard to see here.
The one immediately adjoining it where all of the flood
plain is, is 1B.
The agreement specified that that would have up to three
single family homes.
The majority of the ESA and the floodplain is all to remain
intact.
Then the other portion is further east from there.
That would be a second phase of the Good Samaritan Center.
Okay.
That works.
Thank you.
Any other questions for Haley on this item?
No?
Okay.
Thank you, Haley.
As far as our public hearings this evening, we'll need to
get a ... We'll open item A
and the chair would like to get a motion from one of the
other commissioners to continue
this to the 21st and we'll leave it open.
Then the other two items, we're not going to take any
action on those since they have
been withdrawn.
That will take us through the items that are on our agenda.
I think Richard has got some other items that are off
agenda that he wanted to go over with
us here at work session.
Just wanted to sort of update everybody what's kind of
going to go on the next meeting.
That's going to be a pretty hefty agenda, particularly for
the work session.
We'll have three items specific for work session.
Two of those I handed out tonight.
These are the new or draft design criteria manual for
transportation and drainage.
I wanted to get those well in advance rather than just
sending them that Friday before
so everybody had a chance to take a look at it.
They are online as well.
We can provide that in an email.
They're on the city's website if you wanted to look at them
electronically.
In the transportation manual you'll see quite a bit of
changes from the existing, specifically
with it outlines TIA changes to pavement standards right
away with.
I'll save all of the details for engineering, Todd Estes,
director of capital improvements
will be here as well as pre-TAM to go over both of these.
Commissioner Beck.
Thank you, chair.
Will this affect the mobility plan in any way?
Are we changing streets, directions or anything like that?
It'll actually widen some of the residential streets.
But not necessarily change the mobility plan.
One thing you'll see in here, they're going -- they're
starting to go with context sensitive
corridors so that will ultimately play into that.
So there's sort of some give and take.
So if it's on a context sensitive corridor, there are some
things that you can do to possibly
reduce parking if you put a bike lane.
So there's a number of different options sort of outlined
in the manual.
Also as the only member here that's part of that sub
committee dealing with the DDC change,
are we going to be holding any more meetings?
Yes.
Before they actually implement it?
Because isn't a new rewrite supposed to be set up for the
summer sometime?
Even probably sooner than that.
We're looking at getting sort of a first initial draft,
possibly next month of some of the
chapters.
And so at that point in time, that subcommittee will then
reconvene and start to go over those.
And so what we suspect is probably March, April sort of
alternating work session and
then the following meeting, you probably plan on every work
session having a subchapter
or at least a section to review to get through that.
So I just wanted to kind of preface that as we move forward
that.
Not to carry it on just real quickly.
Are they scheduled to have at least one more public hearing
on that before it goes to city
council?
There'll be a cut on the criteria or the code.
The code itself.
We'll have a number of public hearings.
Okay.
Thanks, Richard.
The only other item that we'll get it to you prior to -- I
'll try to get that to you next
week again so you have it before the meeting.
Deborah Vieras will be here to present changes to subch
apter 17 which deals with our environmentally
sensitive areas.
So there's some changes that she'd work through with her
group.
So we wanted to bring that to a work session as well.
And then we have just to give you an idea, we have three
rezoning, a rezoning and an
SUP and then two preliminary plaques.
So it's going to be, like I said, it'll be a bountiful
agenda.
What's the expected date for the adoption of the
transportation criteria manual and
the storm water and when those would go into effect?
I think they're -- I know they're pushing to get them done
sooner than later.
They've opened up a sort of a 30-day window.
And so what we talked about was rather than sort of have
the meet, you know, sort of let's
just do it -- let's open the window and then we can have
that public hearing in between
and that way if somebody from the public -- I guess if they
want to come, they could.
So whether or not we want to open something up at the
regular meeting, I mean, I guess
that's an option that we can do.
I don't know if -- again, it's sort of up to -- I'll leave
that up to you guys how you
want to handle that or just leave it as a work session item
.
Okay.
Commissioner Smith.
Off topic of these, just for the public hearings, you
probably mentioned the spine here.
Do we need to make a motion to continue public hearing A
and then B and C since they're for
items from withdrawal and we just --
No action.
Okay.
Just wanted to make sure.
Yep.
Okay.
Is that it?
All right.
Well, with that, I will call a conclusion to our work
session at 517 and we will reconvene
in council chambers at 630.
Thank you.
Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton Planning and
Zoning Commission meeting for
January 10th, 2018.
This meeting's been duly posted and we do have a quorum
present and I will call us to
order at 630.
Our first order of business will be to stand and give the
pledge to the U.S. and the Texas
flag.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of
America and to the republic for
which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with
liberty and justice for all.
Honor the Texas flag.
I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God,
one and indivisible.
Before we get started this evening on the rest of our
agenda, I want to make an announcement
for some of you who may be here.
We have two items that are on our public hearing items, 4B
and 4C, that are the Woodlands Project
on McKinney Street.
That item has been withdrawn from our meeting this evening.
So if you're here for that item or either of those two
items, that will not be heard
tonight and we do not have a date certain on that, so I'll
announce that before we get
started on the rest of our meeting.
With that announcement, we will now move on to our consent
agenda.
Chair would entertain a motion on the consent agenda.
Commissioner Smith?
Motion to approve.
Commissioner Beck?
Second.
Okay.
We have a first and a second for approval.
Any discussion?
Commissioner Sullivan?
Not just a...
Okay.
We have a motion and a second for approval and we will call
for a vote on the board.
Motion is going to carry 5 to 0.
That will take us to our items for individual consideration
and I will call on Haley for
presentation of item P17-0010.
Good evening.
This item is a preliminary plat for the Creekside Subdiv
ision located on the south side of Ryan
Road.
It's 137 residential lots and three common area lots.
These are being developed in accordance with the terms of a
pre-annexation development
agreement that was passed in 2016 by the City Council.
This is one of three phases for the entire Creekside
development.
Staff is recommending approval of this plan with the
condition that the existing gas well
on site be plugged in accordance with the terms of the pre-
annexation development agreement
and that a final plan not be considered by the Planning and
Zoning Commission until such
time as the well is plugged.
Okay.
I can stand for any questions.
Questions?
Okay.
Great.
Thank you, Haley.
This is an item of individual consideration.
I have a number of cards here to speak on this item and I
will start with the applicant,
Thomas Fletcher.
If you'll give your name and address.
Good evening, Commissioners.
Thomas Fletcher with Kimley-Horn, 5750 Genesis Court, Fr
isco, Texas, 75034.
Appreciate y'all's consideration to this item tonight.
I realize there's a lot of citizens of Thistle Hill and
maybe some of the surrounding neighborhoods
that are in attendance tonight that have some questions and
concerns.
What I'd like to do is kind of give an overview of the
project and hopefully maybe that will
shed some light or maybe answer some of the questions that
are had.
If we can show the preliminary plat.
The preliminary plat, the portion that you're seeing on the
screen here, this is the northern
portion of the track.
When we went through the PAD process, the PADA process with
the city, one of the things
we looked at is we wanted to do a development that really
took advantage of the existing
natural features of the track.
There's a lot of beautiful mature trees.
When we did the layout and the design and we were working
with staff, we tried to keep
the residential lots kind of towards the center portion of
the track and create and keep the
buffers that are on the perimeter.
As you notice, there is a residential street running north
south.
We do not have lots that are backing to Thistle Hill.
We have a landscape buffer there of the existing trees.
It's approximately 120 feet wide on the north portion.
As you go further south, I think it trims down to about 80
feet.
Another thing when we were looking at this and we were
doing the layout, early on we
had looked at the Thistle Hill development.
When Thistle Hill was developed, Thistle Ridge actually had
a right of way stub out to this
track.
When the development occurred, they did not build the road
way stub in the plans that said
future right of way for future extension to connect to the
existing development.
As we worked with staff and we talked about the development
and concerns that Thistle
Hill might have with this connection to their development
and bringing additional traffic
into their development, we looked at how do we meet the
fire department or the fire code
requirement of two access points in the distance between
those access points.
This particular track has an 80 foot wide piece that runs
south to Creekdale Drive.
For our two points of access, we have access to Creekdale
and then we have access to Ryan
Road.
You will have some traffic split that will go between the
two.
Not all the traffic is going to be let out from the subdiv
ision onto Ryan Road.
Also as part of the agreement, because of the impact,
because of what we were asking
of the city, we looked at Ryan Road.
We talked about improvements to Ryan Road or our portion of
contribution to the improvements
or future improvements of Ryan Road.
Because there are concerns within the city about piece mill
ing the roadway and doing
these little scab on pieces adjacent to development, the
decision was made with the city or by
the city that the escrow of funds to assist with the future
construction of Ryan Road
was in the best interest of the city.
The PADA stipulates that $589,000 will be donated by this
development for perimeter
roadway improvements to Ryan Road.
That comes out to $4,300 per lot, which is more than twice
what the roadway impact fee
per lot is within the city's current ordinance.
Along the south where we abut to Ryan Ranch, we've got a 70
foot buffer along there.
If you see this, this is the south portion of the track.
I know it's not, it's a little bit hard to see on the
screen, but you've got the north-south
road that curves over and goes through the piece.
I'd call it a flag lot, but there's 80 foot wide there.
That's going to have a residential street, which will be 27
feet back to back.
There will be a sidewalk connecting the development down to
Creekdale Drive.
There's a 70 foot buffer between the proposed development
and Ryan Ranch.
The majority of the mature trees within all of these open
spaces are to be preserved.
We've got trails throughout the development.
We're taking advantage of the nice open spaces and putting
in a meandering trail through
the trees.
To the east of the project, adjacent to the floodplain in
the actual creek, we're putting
in an amenity center with a children's playground and a
swimming pool.
In the development, like as Haley had mentioned, the
development is contingent upon the well
being cap.
There's an existing gas well on the site.
As part of this development, that gas well is to be capped.
That process has already begun.
All the surface equipment has been removed.
The surface has been cleaned up.
Now we're waiting for the plugging company.
They're very busy at this time of the year, but we're on
their schedule and we're waiting
for the plugging company to come up and cap the well.
That should occur within the next few weeks.
Anyway, that's kind of an overview.
I tried to hit on transportation, the open space, the gas
well.
I'll be happy to answer any questions and I'd be glad to
come up afterwards if there's
questions that are generated from the residents that I
could potentially answer.
Do you have a question?
Commissioner Smith.
Thank you, Commissioner.
Thank you, Chair.
Can you give me a rough estimate of property values for the
development that's going in?
Let me defer to the developer.
Sure.
Let him come up and introduce himself.
Stay up here.
I got another question for you.
Okay.
Go ahead.
Yeah, it's one of the property values.
Mr. Chairman, members of the Planning and Zoning Commission
, I'm John Dickerson, 8333
Douglas, Suite 1300, Dallas, Texas.
I'm the president of Dickerson Development and we are very
excited to be your applicant.
I actually own the property.
We've closed on the property in November, so we're the
owners of this 47-acre tract.
We're very, very excited to be bringing this community into
your city.
We have two home builders lined up for this community and
the price range of the homes
that they've told us are $350,000 to $450,000.
Great.
The two different home builders that are coming in, one of
the questions that was raised by
a citizen and brought to me was the worry of a cookie
cutter facade being put up.
Anything you could speak to that at all publicly?
Certainly.
The PADA, which was negotiated before we took over this
property, addressed a lot of the
issues of site plans and setbacks to avoid the cookie
cutter look that occurs in a lot
of communities throughout the Metroplex.
Namely, we stagger front yard setbacks.
There's basically three categories, A, B, and C, to stagger
so that there's not just
a linear line of front yard setback.
Then in our homeowners association deed restrictions, we've
got restrictions on front elevations,
building materials, masonry, brick, and protections in
there to make sure that it doesn't look
like there's not so many homes of the same type, that there
's different product.
Did you guys drive through Thistle Hills at all to take
ideas about how to create continuity
within the area, keep the façades at least looking the same
is the wrong word to use,
but something similar to what's already around it?
I think Thistle Hill is the standard or the quality of the
quality that we envision happening
on this property.
Great.
Absolutely.
Thanks, sir.
Yes.
Thank you, sir.
Did you guys ever have a neighborhood meeting with
residents of Thistle Hill to discuss
this?
No, we did not.
All the meetings were with city staff and the city
officials.
Sure.
It's usually brought up during zoning issues, not usually
during our preliminary platting,
but as you can probably see, this is a little bit more
charged than our preliminary platting,
so stop at that.
Right.
I think that was because the tract is currently located in
the ETJ.
As part of the PADA, once the final plat is approved, we
have to submit for annexation
within 10 days.
Thanks.
More questions?
Okay.
Another question.
Commissioner Sullivan.
Thanks, Chair.
I know that you all have paid for the street impact fees or
to be paid up front.
In fact, all three phases combined are going to be $896,700
.
And my question is, since the traffic survey has not been
done, how do you know what you're
paying for?
So when we met with the city, the city was in the process
of doing their roadway impact
fee, and what the city's consultant had determined was they
had gone through and done a study
of impacts on what a single family lot impacts within a
certain area of Denton.
What does that impact have on the roadway infrastructure in
the system?
And at the time, I think at one point, the city was looking
at bringing forward a $3,000
per lot impact fee.
And then as it went through the process, it was settled out
on a $2,000 per lot impact
fee.
But what the study shows is that the actual impact is a
little bit more significant than
that.
But if you make your roadway impact fee too high, then it
could drive developers away.
Because this project is located in the ETJ, and we were
asking for a pre-annexation development
agreement, that's why we came in at a roadway impact fee
that is more in line with or appropriate
to the impact of our development.
So that figure was determined by the city and presented to
us as part of the pre-annexation
development agreement.
So the study that was done by the city's consultant is what
was utilized to help determine that
appropriate fee amount.
Well, I guess what I'm asking is, is that going to pay just
to re-asphalt Ryan Road?
Is it going to expand it?
No, what it does is that covers, like if we were to go out
and do the perimeter roadway
improvements, that fee is in line with the cost of that
section of roadway.
So because if you go out and you drive, there are several
areas adjacent to the Walmart,
Forest Hill, Teasley Trails where with the development the
road was actually constructed
and you get some incontinuity.
So the city said, well, if we start assessing these impact
fees versus having the developer
themselves build this small section or their half of the
roadway, then once we accumulate
a certain amount of dollars, we can start the process of
going out and doing schematic
design, determination of road section, determination of
right of way acquisition.
We can go through and do our flood study.
So they can start using, so once these dollars are paid and
put into the account, the city
can start the process of planning for the improvements of
this road.
That planning will help them determine the overall, do an
estimation of the overall cost
and then they can use that to start looking for sources to
fund.
Because you have, I mean, if you look at the area, I think
about 60% of the frontage adjacent
to Ryan Road is already developed.
So you don't have as much development that's going to come
in and contribute.
So the city has to look at where are, what is the cost and
then how can we fund the improvements
to the overall roadway.
- You trust it more than I do.
But y'all are going to be adding about what, 137 homes?
Is that right?
- Correct.
- 137 homes.
My concern is that Thistle Hill, phase one and two has
about 150 homes.
And a couple of years ago, there was a traffic survey done
on Andrew because residents were
concerned about the speeding of cars because it's pretty
straight shot from the back of
Thistle Hill to Ryan Road.
And during the five day period, they had 2,968 cars that
went southbound from Ryan Road onto
Andrew.
Another 3,173 cars that went northbound going from Andrew
onto Ryan Road.
So that's 6,141 cars that were either going onto or off of
Ryan Road.
So that means that y'all's development is going to add an
additional 6,000 cars going
into or out of Ryan Road, but they're going to be traveling
that Ryan Road.
How do y'all plan to get people out in a safe and expedited
manner when you have all
of these cars coming within, what, 300 feet of each other
from Andrew to street A or whatever
you call it?
The driveway spacing, when we look at the driveway spacing
from Thistle Hill to our entry
road, we look at the city's, the ultimate use of that road
way.
What is the ultimate design section?
What is the spacing?
So if you look at Ryan Road and you drive up, there's a lot
of, because it's developed
over time, there's a lot of homes that front Ryan Road.
So you have a lot of driveways with spacing that is
relatively close.
I think there's probably, you could probably find drives
that are within 75 to 100 feet.
Well when we look at our development, we go through our
design, we set our entry to where
it is, the distance apart from the entry to Thistle Hill
meets the city's thoroughfare
standards or traffic design standards so that there's
adequate sight distance, there's
adequate visibility.
So somebody that stopped in our development at Ryan Road,
they have good sight visibility,
there's nothing impeding their visibility, and there's not
going to be a car coming out
of an adjacent driveway, whereas if they're coming out
quickly and we're coming, somebody
in ours is coming out slowly where it would create an issue
.
As far as the traffic count, I would imagine if those
traffic count numbers, I would assume
that those traffic count numbers probably included maybe
traffic that was going through Thistle
Hill to get south to Creek Delta, maybe other developments.
So from a traffic, I'm not a traffic engineer, but working
with our traffic engineers, I
know that a residential, single family residential
development typically generates about 9.5 trips
per day.
So if you round that up to 10, you're talking about 1,370
trips per day that's generated
from this development.
In a peak hour, AM and PM, it's around one per lot, so you
're talking about 137 peak
hour trips that are added to the roadway system.
Because the way our development is laid out, one of the
things we did is, so we didn't
have a straight through from Creekdale up to Ryan, we made
it to where anyone coming
or trying to go through the development would have to come
down and go around.
So we made several turns within the development that they
would have to make.
We didn't want to create a straight cut through.
Studies have shown that if you make it harder for someone
to cut through, you're going
to reduce that traffic.
So we didn't want to make this a development that's going
to create an opportunity for
a lot of cut through traffic.
So I don't know if maybe their development has some cut
through traffic in those numbers,
but from a TIA standpoint, we would expect that 1,370 trips
would be generated from this
development per day.
We would assume a certain percentage of those are going to
go down to Creekdale and then
go further south from there.
What that percentage is without a TIA, I would probably
guess that you might have 25% go
south and 75% go north.
Just because the lots on the southern portion of the
development, it's going to be quicker
for them to get out if they go down to Creekdale.
Then I'm not sure there's another north-south connector
street that goes out and I think
comes out over by Sprouts.
I'm not sure of all the street names.
But that would be one way that the residents would get out
and over to 2181.
Well, they'd have to go to Creekdale to River Pass, Hickory
Creek to then go on Hickory
Creek, which is probably worse condition than Ryan Road.
Let me ask you, did y'all talk to Ryan Ranch people,
residents as far as dumping ever how
many people into their neighborhood?
We don't have any connectivity to their neighborhood.
Well, Creekdale.
Well, Creekdale, I believe River Chase, if it's the correct
street.
Yeah, River Pass.
River Pass.
It's a collector.
Yeah, that's the western boundary of ...
There's a north-south collector that ties into Creekdale
that doesn't have any lots
located on it.
Ryan Ranch, it's my understanding if I'm thinking correctly
, because I know when we looked at
the sewer, because one of the things we looked at with the
city is taking the Granada lift
station offline and making it gravity, which would save the
city money with operation expense
for that lift station.
One of the things we had to look at is there needed some
upsizing of some of the sewer
lines further south in that, I believe it's River Pass,
River Chase.
Yeah, River Pass, yeah.
They mentioned that when we were talking about, they
mentioned that if there was any upsizing
required, they could potentially go that route because it's
a collector and it did not impact
any lots or a sewer line with services on it.
But I'd have to look at a map to verify that because I'm
not ...
Okay.
Thank you.
It is River Pass, River Pass Drive.
Are there lots fronting River Pass?
They back to it.
Back to it.
Thank you.
On the east side, the east side lots back to it and the
west of that is still farmland.
Any other questions for the applicant?
Thank you.
This is an individual agenda item and so I do have several
other cards wishing to speak.
I'll just take these in the order in which they were
presented.
I have Richard, I believe, Bodo, 3913 Maggie Meadow and it
's not marked whether it's in
support of opposition.
Please come forward, give us your name and address and then
the card I have to follow
you will be Karn Catherwood.
Yes.
Good evening.
Thanks for the opportunity to speak to the board or to the
commission.
I am a member of Thistle Hills.
Richard Bodo, 3913 Maggie's Meadow in Denton, 76210.
I am actually the president of our Thistle Hills phase one
HOA newly formed about one
year ago.
We do have some concerns, I wouldn't call it complete
opposition, but we have some concerns
on the new neighborhood.
One, I guess I didn't get the question quickly and enough
to the applicant.
There's, I believe, it was indicated that there's 120 to 80
feet wide buffer on the
one side and presently there's multiple trees that are
tagged with yellow ribbons, but there's
a whole lot of foliage in that area as well that are major
trees that are not.
I guess I would like to first of all ask the question if we
can get an understanding if
just the ones that are tagged yellow at the moment are
planned to be saved or more than
just that in that area.
Okay, can I ask you if you have several questions for the
applicant or just one?
Probably the rest are more for the city.
Okay, I'll ask the applicant to please come forward and let
's address the.
As far as the tree tags, we have not done any tagging to
signify what's being removed
versus what's being saved.
So when we go out and do our tree survey, when they tag
certain trees, typically that's
going to, the city of Denton has different classifications
for trees.
So the trees that have the ribbon would meet a certain
classification, but what we do is
we go out and we tag, we'll tag and tie all the trees that
are six inches or larger, then
we go through and put together a tree survey.
When we did our development, our design, we, that buffer,
the distance we set the buffer
enabled us to look at minimal impacts to the trees.
So there's very minimal, there are some trees that are
being removed, but within that primary
120 feet width, the majority of those trees are being
preserved.
As far as when we have to go out and do some grading right
up by the right of way, typically
if there's a tree within 10 to 15 foot of the right of way,
the grading activity is
going to usually damage the tree to where it wouldn't
survive.
So any tree within probably 110 feet of that back property
line would be preserved.
And then that 10 and then 50 foot right of way, those were
where you would start seeing
tree removal.
And then we're doing a trail through the trees and
basically what we do on the design for
the trail through the trees is it's kind of a design build
trail so that we can kind of
go through and weave through the trees and so that we're
not removing trees to add concrete
walk.
We're building a concrete walk within the trees so that the
citizens can enjoy the trees
within the area.
Does that answer your question?
It does.
Okay.
I have a follow up while you're there at the mic.
Have you already done your tree survey?
We have.
We have done the tree survey.
It's been submitted to the city for review.
We've done our grading plan.
Our construction plans are under review through the city.
So I'd have to go back and relook at the numbers, but if we
looked at the overall tract and
we looked at the percentage of canopy and caliper inches
that we're saving, I think
we're saving about 65% of the caliper inches on the site.
The city has two different standards.
They have canopy trees and then they have trees that are
kind of individual trees.
But as far as canopy goes, the requirement is preserving 20
%, I believe.
I know a lot of the standards have been reviewed and there
's changes that are maybe being proposed.
But the last time I looked, if something's been updated or
changed, then I may not be
speaking to what's current.
But based on what's current, we're saving about probably
around 45% over and above what
would typically be required.
So it's a very conservative approach, a very preservation-
oriented approach to the trees.
I figured it was.
I'm going to give you the opportunity to address that.
So thank you for answering my question.
Please.
May I ask him one additional question?
Sure.
With the development . . .
Can you step closer to the mic so we can make sure and get
it on the recording?
I apologize.
So with the development against Ryan Road, can you help us
understand what type of, if
you're going to have a wall in front of the development to
Ryan Road and the construction
of that wall?
Yeah, absolutely.
We are going to have a screening wall.
So one of the other things we did is, if you notice on the
connection to Ryan Road, a lot
of developments will typically back lots to Ryan Road.
We wanted ours to be kind of set back and create a buffer.
So not only do we have the 120-foot buffer along our
western edge, we've carried that
through across Ryan.
We are, as part of our requirements, we're going to have a
masonry screen wall across
Ryan Road.
And then we also have an entry feature that's going to look
. . . John could probably describe
it better than I can, but it's going to be an entry
monument that kind of has a bridge
type feel as if you were going across a covered bridge into
a . . .
Appalachian.
I knew you had a word for it.
An Appalachian style entry feature.
So it will be a real nice entryway.
We've got a divided median for the street that's connecting
to Ryan Road.
So that divided median will have landscaping in it.
So the amenity center will sit right in here.
So as you're going westbound on Ryan Road and you look down
through the creek and all,
you'll be able to see the amenity center, the children's
playground and the swimming
pool.
As you turn into Street A, we've got an HOA lot.
So when you turn in, you're not going to see homes right of
way.
We have a masonry screen wall along there as well that kind
of protects those first
row of homes so that the headlights aren't shining into
homes or backyards or anything.
So we've got real nice landscaping, hardscaping designed
for this entry.
So there's quite a bit of beautification that's going on
right there at Ryan Road.
Thank you.
Please continue.
Okay.
The next, thank you.
The next question that I had is with the addition of Creeks
ide now in addition to Teasley Trails,
Forest Meadows, Ryan Meadows, so now we'll have basically
four new developments coming
in there.
There was a traffic impact study for Ryan Road, I believe,
done in 2014.
And the first question is, is there, what is the plan to
have another study done now
that all these four new neighborhoods are coming in and the
study was done before any
of them have basically been in at all?
Okay.
That'd be something to have to ask staff to speak to on H
aley or Richard who would like
to take that.
At this time, there are no immediate plans for any traffic
study that I'm aware of.
But as he mentioned with the impact fees being collected
for each of the new subdivisions,
the city will ask her that money and have it available when
the plans are made for Ryan
Road to be fully improved to its full right of way.
I think Commissioner Beck has a follow up question for you
Haley.
Thank you Chair.
Okay, nobody's talked about it yet, but correct me if I'm
wrong.
On our mobility plan, isn't Ryan Road scheduled to become
either a main arterial or secondary
arterial, a four lane road, possibly even with a medium in
the middle?
I know that could be way down the road, but isn't that in
the plans on our mobility plan?
Yes, sir.
The ultimate attendance for it to be a secondary arterial,
that would be at least 110 feet
of right of way.
So at least four lanes divided.
So that's something to look forward to.
The problem is that may not happen anytime soon.
Yeah, that's the ultimate intent.
Okay, but it would be able to handle a lot of the traffic
that these developments are
going to bring in when that happens.
Yeah.
Okay, thank you.
I hate to have Haley getting up and down, so maybe if we
just keep her here close.
She can take a seat right there.
Keep her here close.
Close by, sure.
Because the next question, I'm sorry.
No, you're fine, go ahead.
Because the next question really becomes, when do we think
that will be with 137 homes
here, with the other three subdivisions, which are hundreds
of homes in there.
With the one, sorry, I don't have the names all down.
With the Ryan Meadows there, I think we were just talking
about it over Christmas that
before the beginning of last year, there was a lot of dirt
work done, but we didn't see
a home in there and we turn around now and there has to be
30 or more homes in there,
several waiting on some permits, I think, and then moment
arily people start flooding
into that neighborhood.
They're flooding into forest meadows and teesley
continuously.
We expect to see a huge influx of traffic in there very,
very quickly.
Can the commission help us to understand when we think that
road is going to happen and
where do we go to make sure that happens before we run into
problems both with traffic and
both with safety?
We also have an elementary school back there.
Needless to say, if we've got a lot of traffic there and we
have a problem, obviously we
have people parking on our right of way there in front of
Thistle Hills on the median on
a regular basis.
I didn't realize that was a parking lot, by the way.
That happens on a regular basis, so we have cars all over
the place.
Question one is when do we believe that that will actually
happen and become a road?
Then number two, we talked about this kiddie that all the
developers are throwing money
into.
At what threshold does this kiddie hit the mark that says,
"Okay, it's time to spend
us," and start doing something to the roads?
I'll take a stab at that.
That's not something that our commission deals with.
That's something that actually is going to be internal city
staff and policy that they
draft, so we can't address when those improvements will be
or what the timeframe is.
That was something that you would need to address to city
staff directly on that.
I'm sorry that that's just the honest answer that I can
give you.
Okay.
As we would address that to city staff in a non-event like
this, where would we then
put that on record for the issue that we have in need out
there?
Looks like staff would like to weigh in here.
Richard, if you can.
A lot of that happens.
Every year we look at it, they do a capital improvement
plan.
What they'll look at is the amount of money that's
collected.
Part of the issue, particularly with Ryan and the applicant
's representative, kind of
headed to that, sort of to the west of you, there's still a
lot of single family homes
that abut Ryan Road.
There's quite a bit of acquisition that still needs to take
place.
Some of that occurs when there's a plat.
It's just a matter of acquiring that right away and at what
time.
When they come into plat, that's usually when the city is
able to acquire that land.
Otherwise, you're sort of really negotiating with a home
owner to try to purchase that.
I'll just further say that, of course, this is the
preliminary plat stage.
As this development continues, there will be other public
forums within this board or
with the city council to put those comments on record, I
think is what you were asking,
right?
Yes.
Okay.
Thank you for your comments.
My next speaker is Karn Catherwood to be followed by John
Dickerson.
Good evening, gentlemen and ladies.
My name is Karn Catherwood.
I live at 3941 Andrew Avenue, which is the freeway that
runs through the middle of Thistle
Hills Estates.
We have a huge traffic problem.
I've lived there 11 years.
I'm aware of the concerns of most of the people who have
moved in since we've been there and
those who were there before us.
Most of these concerns have been answered by the previous
gentleman, and I'm grateful
to hear some positive answers.
I won't go back over those issues that he's already
addressed.
I would like to just mention once again and emphasize that
there is a need for a traffic
survey, traffic study, whether this is something that you
guys do or that is delegated to somebody
else.
We are very worried about Gridlock and Ryan Road.
All the new subdivisions, I'm not against them.
I'm glad that they're there.
We have to fill in the South Denton with folks, and that's
what we're doing.
But Ryan Road is not quite what I would call a mess, but it
's getting there.
It's a little fuzzy in my mind whether or not there is a
traffic survey planned.
There was one done I think in 2014, but with all the houses
, all the people, all the cars,
you really need to do another one.
It needs to be official, not just something that a
developer does, and I'm grateful for
the input from those who are developing Creekside, and that
's helpful, but something that is
official from Country Club to Teasley, the whole length of
the road in front of the elementary
school.
We need something done officially.
It will cost a few bucks, I know, but it would make the
people in my neighborhood very happy,
and with time, it would probably accelerate Ryan Road
becoming Four Lanes, which is going
to have to become at some point in the future.
So I just throw that out there as something for you folks
to think about.
One other item, and I'll be very brief.
When preapproval was given for Creekside back in August of
2016, those of us who live next
door to them knew nothing about it.
It was really done very quietly and very discreetly.
We all wish it had been done a little bit more publicly.
We wish we had known a little bit about it.
We didn't.
We thought all that land was still for sale, and I was sort
of shocked and surprised just
a couple of weeks ago to find out that this kind of
development and analysis had been
going on for a couple of years.
I know it takes time to do this analysis, and the folks
involved have done, from what
I can see, a very good job, and I compliment them, but I
wish there had been a little bit
more openness about it.
It has created a funny impression in my neighborhood, and
you don't want to create those kinds of
funny impressions, because you have to deal with them, and
people exaggerate and get worried,
and there's no point in that happening.
A little bit more openness would have been helpful.
I do want to congratulate the developer for the plans for
common areas in the new neighborhood,
plans to keep the trees.
We were all worried about that.
They're going to come in now and cut down all of our
beautiful trees that we have hanging
over our backyards from the other side of the fence that
divides us from the new area
for Creekside.
They're going to keep, I think he said 65 percent or 45
percent of them, quite a few
of them.
Thank you, thank you, thank you on behalf of the folks
whose homes back up to your neighborhood.
We'll watch you as you're building your houses, because we
can see you out there.
Thank you as well to whoever did it, that the gas well,
which was directly in back of
my backyard, within 400 feet of my property, is now defunct
and dead.
I'm so grateful that we don't have to look out our kitchen
window and see that horrible
apparatus and the infrastructure and know what's going on
behind the scenes.
I'm all for gas wells, mind you.
I know we need them in Texas, but when they were that close
to my backyard, that was a
little worrisome.
Thank you that that is now defunct and we can look at some
nice houses rather than have
to look at stuff like that.
Thank you for your attention.
Thank you for your comments, sir.
Just a clarification.
Mr. Dickson, have you already spoke?
Okay.
Let me go on.
I have Billy Carraway, 3909 Andrew Avenue.
I'm Billy Carraway, 3909 Andrew Avenue, and our home backs
up to the development.
I think most of my questions have been answered.
I do have a couple to the developer.
They had resurfaced Rhine Road and then they put the
housing condition down at the end.
Within two weeks, all Rhine Roads tore up.
How are we going to handle this, keeping it from getting
tore up once construction starts?
The other one is most of the people on Andrew Avenue all
have swimming pools.
Where are we going to put the batch plants at?
Are they going to be right up close to us or are we going
to put them back when they
start building the roads out there?
Those are my two questions.
Great.
That's all I have.
Thank you.
I'll ask the developer's last card I have and he can
address those two questions for
us.
The last card I have is John Dickerson or if you'd like to
have your, Mr. Fletcher speak
on your behalf, that'd be fine with me.
I'll answer the first question first as far as the batch
plant.
The batch plant would be located within the development on
the outside of the tree preserve
kind of in the lots.
Typically what they'll do is they'll come in, they'll do
all the earth work, they'll
bench the lots, they'll create an area within the lots that
's flat where they can set up
the batch plant.
They'll go in, they'll put all the utilities in.
Once they get ready to pave, typically the paving on a
project like this is probably
only going to take four to five weeks at the most.
So the amount of time the batch plant would be up would
probably be four to five weeks
and the batch plant would probably be located no closer
than 250 feet.
I think there's requirements within the city code that we
have to follow.
I'm not sure exactly what that distance is, but just the
areas that would accommodate
the batch plant would probably be well over 200 feet from
those back property lines.
As far as the roadway construction, generally when we go
through and have pre-con, the city
inspectors go out and they do an inspection of Ryan Road,
the existing conditions.
The city inspectors are monitoring the contractors
throughout the development process.
If there's damage to Ryan Road that they feel is directly
associated with the construction
or a specific contractor, they will note that and that will
be something that they will
have to fix or remedy.
That portion of the process is really, I would say it's
really governed or watched over by
the city inspectors, but there is a process to where they
're watching the construction
and making note of any damages that they feel that were
accounted for by the construction.
Mr. Hutchins, while you're at the microphone, city staff
has all of your contact information
for you and your firms, is that correct?
Any of the residents that are here that may have some
follow-up questions or so forth
can certainly reach out to Haley and request contact
information for you to follow up with
additional questions if they have them.
Absolutely.
I'd be happy to.
The other thing, I apologize I didn't bring it tonight, we
've got some real nice renderings,
color renderings.
If I would have realized that there were a lot of questions
, I would have brought that
and shared that with you.
I'm happy to provide that and share it.
It shows kind of the tree preserves, the trails, the
amenities that we're doing, it shows the
entry feature, it shows the screening fences.
So if there's interest in that, I would be happy to share.
That's part of the PADA, so it is a public document, but I
'll be glad to email that out
to anyone.
Where can they get that if it's a public document?
They could request it through the city.
It's part of Ordinance 2016-251.
The documents, a lot of times when they scan the ordinance,
the quality of the exhibits
isn't quite what it would be if I provided the PDF, so they
can either get it through
there or I'll be happy to provide that to anyone that would
want a copy of it.
Okay, great.
Thank you for that.
You have something?
I just wanted to add, if someone is interested in receiving
that document, at the end of
the meeting, if you want to provide your email address to
Athenia, we can email that out
to everyone tomorrow.
Okay, great.
Thank you.
That's all the cards that I have here before us.
This is not a public hearing, but it is an item for
individual consideration.
So if you would like to speak on the item, you may.
You'll need to fill out a card, and I have no more cards.
So with that, I will move us on on this particular item and
open the floor up, and then Commissioner
Sullivan.
Thank you, Chair.
My biggest concern about this project is simply the traffic
that is going to be the result,
resulting on Ryan Road, number one, Hickory Creek, second
of all, because I don't think
that when you look at the size of Thistle Hill and how many
trips that generates, you're
all going to be about the same size, and who knows how many
cars are going to be in there.
The last traffic survey, as has been mentioned, was 2014,
and that was for just a portion
of Ryan Road, not the entire Ryan Road.
Since then, Teasley Trail has added 167 homes, Ryan Meadows
141, to go along with 150-some
odd in Thistle Hill, plus who knows how many in Forest
Ridge and Montecito subdivisions.
Forest Ridge and Montecito were on the north side of Sharon
Rose.
Elementary schools at both ends, plus a Walmart on the
eastern end of it.
I noticed in the handout that we got this evening for next
meeting that a traffic analysis
is required, but the development would generate equal to or
more than 1,000 vehicle trips
per day.
Well, obviously, one development may or may not do that to
the size that we're talking
about, but when you look at all the developments that have
gone in, in a relatively short length
of road, I think that the least the city could do is to
perform a traffic survey, spend the
$896,000 that these guys are putting up, plus who knows how
much more Teasley and Ryan Meadows
has put up, and make it a full four-lane highway.
I don't know if that is a condition that we can add to
these people, or if it's something
that maybe needs to be tabled so that the city can do its
magic in making sure that
there is no additional impact done on Ryan Road to further
deteriorate the road, and
just make it more of a hassle, because what's going to
happen is, as every citizen in this
room can attest to, the one thing we all agree to is our
city's streets are not very good.
Why compound the problem to come in after the fact, after
all these subdivisions have
gone in, including the other two phases that they're going
to put in, and then we're going
to tear up Ryan Road and make it a bigger hassle to get up
and down the street?
It just makes no sense to me.
Thank you.
Commissioner Beck.
Thank you, Chair.
And actually, Commissioner Sullivan kind of hit a lot of
what I wanted to address, too,
but I did want to go on record and see if we could give
some satisfaction to the people
that have to live out there, whether it's anybody in City
Night, Haley, Ron, that can
give us an idea when we could motivate whoever needs to be
to do a TIA, a traffic impact
analysis.
I agree.
It's frustrating to know that this road is going to be
widened eventually, but not knowing
when is frustrating.
We can't get a handle on that as well as we like, but a TIA
, it seems like, considering
all the development that's going on there, we should be
able to do that and be able to
give the citizens an answer when that will happen.
Ron, would you be the right person to ask on that?
Who would be the individual in the city that we could pick
on to try and get that started?
Commissioner, I'll try to attempt to answer that question.
Of course, right around has always been on our radar.
It's obviously part of our future mobility plan and
hopefully our CIP program as well.
I think the people that are in charge or are responsible
for that are listening, or if
they're not, we will definitely make sure that they hear
you and watch this video to
make sure that they hear what the concerns are along Ryan
Road is.
I'm wondering, would it be possible to, maybe Richard or
somebody can answer this, could
by our next P&Z meeting, could we have somebody maybe come
to the work session and give us
a little bit more detailed information that we can share
with the community?
Is that possible?
That's a higher-end project matrix.
I ask about that.
Yes.
In fact, at the next meeting, we'll be discussing the new
criteria manual and the capital improvements
director, city engineer, will be here at that meeting.
I will let him know to be prepared to answer those
questions.
Great.
Thank you.
Thanks, Ron.
Will that be Todd Estes?
It'll be Todd Estes.
The other contact person might be Jim Jenks?
Correct.
Those would be a couple of city staffers that would be in a
position to address some of
the questions here before us.
Commissioner Smith.
Thank you, Chair.
The TIA would be a great thing to do, but let's look at the
material facts, what we're
talking about tonight.
We're talking about a development that's ready to come in
now.
Even if the TIA comes back, as Richard's already mentioned,
there's further down Orion Road
if there wanted to be future expansion, we've got land that
still needs to be claimed.
We have to wait for either emino domain or have to wait for
replotting on those lands,
and you tell me when that's going to happen.
The expansion of Orion Road is unknown, and if we had to
put at least a timeline on it,
it's probably not within the next five years if I had to
make a wild guess off the cuff.
So sit here and say, "Let's get a TIA done."
The TIAs is going to come back and tell us exactly what we
already know.
It's bogged.
It's going to be bogged.
We're going to come back and say, "All right, we need to
expand Orion Road."
Okay, we're not going to be able to expand Orion Road
tomorrow or next week or next year.
So I just say put it up for consideration that, yes, while
the TIA and talk about expanding
Orion Road is great, it's not immediate.
It's not something that can be done quickly, and we have
something we have to vote on now
and talk about.
So not really anything more to add to it than just help
everyone understand and get some
clarity to the actual gravitas of the situation here.
If I can just add to that, just a reminder that this is a
preliminary plan, so this item
will come up for final, and I think that might give staff
some more time to address those
concerns.
Okay.
Commissioner Smith.
Motion to accept with the city staff's conditions.
Are there some conditions on that?
Recommendation for approval?
No.
That's it.
I think there were.
That's a with city staff condition on my motion.
The two that are presented in the back?
The two that are presented in the back, yes.
So with the city staff's recommendations.
Just for clarification for the guys in the back when they
do the records.
Yes, you're welcome.
So we have a motion to approve with the two conditions as
recommended in our backup.
Okay.
Commissioner Sanchez.
I second that.
We have a first and a second for approval.
Any discussion?
I'll make a comment before we vote.
I would echo Commissioner Sullivan's concerns about Ryan
Road and the improvements and a
lot of your points were discussed in great detail a number
or a couple years ago, I guess,
when the traffic impact fees came before us and were
adopted by the city.
There's a concern I expressed at the time is that we're
going to collect the fees, people
are going to move in, finally get enough money, and we're
going to tear up the roads.
And that's unfortunately the way that that moved forward.
And it's going to be, I think, the process for our city
going forward to play, unfortunately,
some catch up.
But these gentlemen are contributing a significant amount
of money to that effort above and beyond
two times what's currently required.
And so I think they're certainly paying their fair share
for their impact and their development.
And so with that, I'm going to support the motion and have
a comment from Commissioner
Sanchez.
I'm relatively new on this commission and it seems like
that's one of the big issues
we've had every time we talk about developments is that the
roads usually aren't going to
be done when the development is done.
So I don't really see a solution until the funds, those
impact funds are collected.
So it just seems like you're not the only people that are
facing this every week or
every couple of weeks that we meet.
We find the same issue over and over again throughout the
city.
And there's no solution at this time other than when those
funds are collected and then
the city starts using those funds to be able to expand
these roads.
And just like Mr. Smith said, basically, you know, we don't
have the answer, but hopefully
as the as money to get collected, then those roads are
developed.
Commissioner Beck.
Thank you, Chair.
I just want to thank everybody for coming out tonight for
the citizens and making their
presentation.
You know, this commission needs a lot of input from the
people out there that we serve.
So I appreciate you coming down.
I appreciate Mr. Fletcher and Mr. Dickerson for their
presentation, for clearing up a lot
of things.
As Commissioner Smith suggested, and I know this is just a
preliminary plat, but community
meetings are always a great, great thing to do to offset a
lot of concern.
One of the one thing I did want to point out that I was
delighted to hear you mention is
the salvaging of I think 60, 65 percent of the trees.
Yeah, you could have removed a lot more by city standards.
The fact that you've done that, that pleases me
tremendously.
So I'm glad to hear that.
And I think everybody that lives in that area ought to
recognize the fact that it could
have been a lot worse.
So these gentlemen are being commended for salvaging what
they have done there.
So thank you for that.
Mr. Sullivan, I can understand the philosophy of, gosh,
that's not our role.
And gee, you know, the city works slow and this is what we
talked about forever.
But I don't understand the idea that current citizens
living in current houses have to
pay the price for the city not doing their job.
And so I don't see why it is we continue as a board to
approve developments when we know
darn good and well other people are going to be negatively
impacted.
And yet we use the idea of growth as the excuse.
You know what?
People are already here.
Let's take care of our own first.
If speculators want to come in and buy land and build
houses someday, great for them.
But meanwhile, I think we need to protect our citizens
first.
Thank you.
Commissioner Schmidt.
Thank you, Chair.
Anything on my motion or anything you would want to add to
a motion that would make it
better for the citizens who are currently there?
That's purely just an informational question that we can go
to vote.
It can be struck down.
If you bring up a motion or bring up a motion that sounds
that would be more amenable to
the situation.
Commissioner Sullivan.
I've been told that we can't do that.
So a condition would be we wait until the traffic impact
study is made for the entire
Ryan Road before any more construction is done.
That would be my motion.
Commissioner Schmidt.
Not to keep playing tennis ball here.
Legal, can you give just a public statement for Plenary Pl
att?
It's approved tonight, moves forward.
How much timeline, how much runway do we think we have to
be able to get a TIA in before
a final approval for this is done?
When would the final, do we have it scheduled already?
Final Platt?
I'd have Haley address the-
I think planning would have a better idea of the timeline.
The timeline.
Yeah.
There's two years between a preliminary plot and a final
plot before the preliminary would
expire and a new one would be required.
So that would be the potential timeframe in which that
could be done.
But I will say that the final plot for this is in review
with staff currently.
So fairly soon after the gas well plugging is complete, I
expect that that would be ready
to come before the board.
Do you know, I guess the question was talking months, weeks
?
It really depends on the gas well and the review of their
civil plans, but it would
most likely be within the next couple of months.
Okay.
And then-
But up to two years is possible.
I'm making a statement that would still come, the final
would come before this board again.
Just to clarify, the TIA would only relate to their project
.
Correct.
It would be for the entire-
Yeah.
And there's nothing we can add on to be able to request TIA
before we approve?
I think it would be difficult to have it for the entire
length considering that they are
contributing to the impact fee that they are, what was
negotiated part of that agreement.
Typically when you look at a road, it's designed to
obviously a certain capacity or it can
handle a certain amount of vehicles per lane.
It's kind of like the chicken or the egg type approach of
what comes first.
And it starts to, when it starts to, that level of service
starts to degrade, that's
typically when you'll see those improvements move forward.
With this one, it's a little bit more complicated because
there is right of way that needs to
be acquired as well as, if I'm not mistaken, there's some,
quite a bit of utility lines
that would probably need to be relocated as well.
So it's quite a bit of an undertaking.
And I'll just add or reaffirm that that traffic impact
study would be narrowly for that development
only.
Correct.
That's all you would get out of it.
It's going to be tough for us to be able to ask for a TIA
for an entire road whenever
it's a world.
We're only talking about the preliminary plotting for one
subject.
Correct.
Thank you.
I just want to exasperate all things publicly.
That's all.
We've got a motion before us and a second for approval with
the two conditions as mentioned
in backup.
And seeing more, any more discussion, I'm going to call for
a vote on the board.
Motion is going to carry four to one.
That will move us to our public hearing section this
evening.
Give the room a minute to clear if people are going to head
out.
Good luck on your project.
Members are coming out.
This time I'm going to move on on our agenda item 4A.
I'm going to open the public hearing for Z17-0025B.
This is the item that's going to be continued.
Commissioner Beck.
I move that we move this as it puts us forward to the date
certain of February 21st.
Awesome.
Good job.
Commissioner Smith.
I second.
All right.
We have a motion to continue to date certain of February
the 21st on this item.
We're going to leave it open so it does not need to be re-
noticed.
And I will call for a vote on the board.
That motion is going to carry five to zero.
As announced at the beginning of our meeting, our items 4B
and 4C, the woodlands on McKinney
Street have both been withdrawn and we do not have a date
certain on those.
That will conclude our public hearings items tonight and
that will move us to our project
matrix and concluding items.
Commissioner Smith.
Thank you, Chair.
Richard, is there any kind of conversation we can have, at
least during work session,
that would be around what power we have as a commission or
recommendation we can make
to City Council for developers to have more neighborhood
meetings and what scenarios we
can do that?
I think we have maybe a report from you guys on what we can
do to be able to try to put
that.
Make that a precedent because I think that's a question we
've been having quite a bit
during meetings, having a call to African up here, let's
talk to them real quick.
Have you had a neighborhood meeting?
Yes, you have.
No, you haven't.
And it seems like every single time it's been, yes, there's
been a neighborhood meeting,
it's just such a much smoother process.
Absolutely.
In fact, we have that as one of the items for the, as part
of the code update to sort
of formalize that more in the code.
Just to kind of give a for example, if you remember the
palladium, I was telling the
Chair earlier, we had quite a number of folks here speaking
against that.
Would you say which project that was again?
Could take me a minute.
This was the site on, it had a component of affordable
housing that was changing to NRMU
12.
This was loop and Poinsettia.
Sherman Drive, Poinsettia, and Harvard.
When that item came to council, there were the applicant
actually the very next day started
revising their plan, went out and met with the neighbors.
And when we had the public hearing in front of city council
, the two ladies that were
very outspoken, they were the only ones that showed up, sat
through five hours of public
hearing to get up to speak in support of the development is
the first thing I first time
I've ever seen that in my 22 years doing it.
But it goes to your point.
It goes, it goes a long way.
So we anytime an applicant comes forward now, we we've been
advising them it's really in
their best interest to meet to meet with the neighbors.
I don't think Commissioner Strange could probably sympath
ize with me here.
I'd hate to be going to the developers and having to throw
up another piece of red tape.
But I don't like adding more bureaucracy to bureaucracy
already.
But there are sometimes some new rules and regulations can
can speed up a process, you
had a rule to be able to speed up a process.
So yeah, we can have an update on it or if there's no need
for it, then I think it's
one of those, you know, if you know going into it, it's one
thing you can sort of plan
that in your schedule.
But if you know, an applicant comes in and we're through
the and then all of a sudden
we spring it on them.
Yeah, it's it's not I mean, it's not fair.
But we just need to be consistent in how we sure.
Thank you.
Anything else?
When is the item that I asked for?
I want to say it's been a few weeks ago, maybe before
Christmas.
That kind of the same thing we spent a lot of time on
tonight talking about whose responsibility
it is on all the painting.
Is that going to be next week's or that will be that will
be that will be part of the discussion
at the next work session with respect to the the
transportation manual.
Great.
Looking forward to that.
I'm getting that on.
OK, anything else?
OK, with that, I'm going to close us tonight at seven
thirty seven.
Thank you, everyone, for coming out.