.
>> Good evening and welcome to the city of Denton planning
and
zoning commission meeting for November 29, 2017. This
meeting
has been duly posted and we do have a quorum present and I
will
call us to order at 634. Our first meeting is on November
29, 2017. We will have a quorum meeting on November 29,
2017.
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have
a quorum meeting on November 29, 2017. We will have a qu
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meeting on November 29, 2017. We will have a quorum meeting
on
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2017. We will have a quorum meeting on November 29, 2017.
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2017. We will have a quorum meeting on November 29, 2017.
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on November 29,
2017. We will have a quorum meeting on November 29, 2017.
If you're opposed to 33 houses being built there, how much
difference is that
if they were -- they could rezone it to an NR4, which would
allow up to 24
houses? So we're only talking nine house difference there.
That land can't stay
dormant. It's not fair to the property owners. So it's
going to be filled in
eventually. So would you have a conflict with 24 homes as
opposed to 33?
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> I would say that the land is going to be filled in
eventually.
>> There's a need, there's a big need in the city of Denton
for affordable housing.
We build way too much it seems like for upper end home
buyers, you know.
And yet there's a need for affordable housing for low and
middle income working families.
So, again, I don't want to put you in a spot, but what
would be your position as far as providing that need,
even if it is in your neighborhood?
>> Well, I'm not knowledgeable about all the other
available lots, you know, in Denton.
You know, so if there were any of those, they should be
looked at too.
But, you know, there's more agenda items that, you know,
probably cover that for other folks here
that it's a little more concerning, you know.
It's not up against our back lot, so to speak.
So, you know, we're just dealing with it four houses away.
So, yeah, if the commission deems it so, it's just, you
know, just think of the current residents in that
neighborhood
and try to remember that, you know, we have concerns, you
know.
>> Sure.
>> But understand the economics that it's, you're right, it
's empty property, just doesn't do much good.
>> Well, and again, to lay some of your concerns, once they
do start building, they have to provide site plans.
So, they have to follow certain rigid guidelines as far as
what it's going to look.
It has to blend into the community.
So, that's another opportunity for you to come back and
look and make sure that they're not going to be putting
something up cheap.
And we're here to make sure they don't either.
So, but thank you for your input on that.
>> And thank you.
Thank you.
>> Thank you.
The next card I have is Barney Casamo at 610C North.
North Bell, you'll give your name and address for the
record.
I appreciate you'll have four minutes for your comments.
>> My name is Barney Casamo.
610 North Bell is our corporate offices.
I'm the executive director of Dent and Affordable Housing
Interim.
I've been in that position for about 16 or 18 months.
>> And I see your card's in support.
>> I definitely am in support.
>> Okay.
>> But I want to say that if this was my neighborhood, I
would still be in support.
And that's one of the criteria I use when any project is
proposed by anybody, be it building or buying.
It has to be something that I would not be concerned about
having as a neighbor.
When I drive down the Argera, which I frequently do, there
is quite a dense multifamily housing development that's
gone in right across from that property.
So if density is the issue, we've already missed the boat
because there's a lot of housing right there.
Denton definitely needs affordable housing.
I spoke to one neighbor from the development, I guess where
this gentleman lives, and he was in support of it after we
discussed it.
He was concerned about affordable housing, small houses,
tiny houses, Section 8, whatever.
But he was quite comfortable with single family houses that
we're proposing.
Thank you.
>> Great. Thank you.
Next card I have is John Withers, 2001 McCamey Boulevard,
in support.
>> Good evening. I'm John Withers. I'm a real estate broker
.
I work with Roger Yale.
And to kind of echo the sentiments of the affordable
housing deal, as of 4 o'clock today,
houses that are listed and active on the market within the
city of Denton, there are 72 listed on the market.
There's only 52 of those that are actually available to
purchase, with 20 of those already being in contract.
The average square footage of those is about 1,700 feet.
So everything that we're proposing is falling within line.
We're 1,500 to 1,700 square feet.
We're actually going to be a little bit cheaper than that
250 mark.
So the affordable housing aspect of it, even though it's
kind of silly to think 250 is the affordable housing mark,
that's where the market is right now, and that's the
product that we're looking to put on the ground.
So I support it.
>> Okay. Thank you for your comments.
>> Thank you.
>> Next card I have is Mark Moffett, 2708 Crater Lake, in
support.
>> Good evening, commissioners. Mark Moffett, 2708 Crater
Lake Lane, Denton, Texas.
I serve on the board of directors for the Denton Affordable
Housing Corporation.
Several years ago, I was approached to serve on that board,
and I jumped at it.
This is something I'm very passionate about.
I'm also a real estate broker.
I'm also a registered professional appraiser in the state
of Texas.
This is a real need in our community, in our state, in our
nation, is to be able to provide affordable housing for
people.
And we're not -- in our organization, we have several units
that address the need for either Section 8,
low income, special needs, things like that.
We address all of those, and those are priorities in our
organization.
Providing affordable homeownership is also another priority
,
and this particular project gives us the ability to meet
that objective that we have.
This is something that council has talked about repeatedly.
It is something that the citizens have spoken in favor of
frequently.
So in that context, it's a good project, and it accomplish
es a lot of goals and objectives that we all have in common
here.
A couple of things I do want to point out in the staff
presentation.
If I could get the overhead camera, please.
We'll refer you to page two here on your packet there.
I want to point out in the staff presentation here that,
quote,
the proposed NR6 district permits uses that are generally
compatible with the existing land use pattern in this area.
Staff does note that although the density is a little bit
higher than what they would think it would normally be,
it is compatible, and they do mention that in their report.
I also want to point out on page three -- I want to echo
something that was mentioned earlier there.
Section 3A in the middle of the paragraph there, staff
mentions that -- let's see here.
The surrounding area was between three and five dwelling
units per acre,
and although nearby subdivisions are currently zoned in R3
and R4,
much of the area was developed prior to the adoption of the
current DDC and slightly exceed the current zoning
limitations in some areas.
So I want to point that out.
In a sense, what we're saying is probably somewhere between
3.5 and 5.5.
The average of that is going to be 4.5.
Our 33 units on the 7.14 acres, that comes out at 4.6.
We are within one-tenth of a point of what the average is
for that area.
And the project is not looking to go to the max on this.
We're just trying to make it to where it works and provide
a product so that our community can continue to develop.
The surrounding land use there, we do have NR6 right next
to it, right here in the immediate vicinity.
We also have some commercial right here on the corner with
the church,
and then we also have some multifamily zoning there right
on the corner in the immediate proximity.
So the development of this property for it being isolated,
I would disagree with that.
I think it's compatible.
The staff identifies that in the report.
And again, overall, this is something that council has
given a directive to that we want to accomplish for our
community.
The citizens are in favor of it.
It's something that needs to happen.
And this is an opportunity for us to move forward on
something that is a vital goal in our community.
So I would ask and appreciate your support.
I'm happy to take any questions.
Commissioner Ellis.
Thank you, Chair.
Thanks, Mark, and thanks for your comments.
How would you address the concern of when we have a zoning
change, it cannot be tied to a project?
So you point out many aspects of the project, which look
good, but if for some reason the project doesn't happen,
and you know this, then we've got an NR6 on this that could
open up the door to higher density than what you're
proposing to put in.
Absolutely. So kind of a little background on this
particular project.
We were presented with multiple opportunities to develop
this property and actually had some folks that came to us
with some of those types of uses that I think would raise a
level of concern in the community that we were not
comfortable with.
And in our discussions about the direction on which we
wanted to go with this particular project, we wanted to
choose a project and a product that accomplished goals of
our organization.
Our goals in our organization are to provide affordable
housing, okay?
And there is another organization here in town that does a
similar, has a similar goal, but they do it in the context,
generally speaking, of multifamily properties that are
mainly rental type activities.
Our goal is to provide home ownership at an affordable rate
.
That is kind of how we differentiate ourselves from that
other organization.
Both are definitely needed, and I don't discount that issue
.
But to answer your question there, the reason we went with
this particular proposal was specifically to address the
issue and the concerns that we knew would come up in the
community.
If I lived there in that community where the gentleman
spoke a little while ago, I wouldn't want a bunch of duplex
es and townhomes stacked right on top of each other.
I wouldn't want that.
And from an organizational standpoint, our goal is to
provide home ownership.
And that doesn't mean, you know, duplex ownership, things
like that.
That means home ownership.
And this is an opportunity to accomplish that goal.
So thank you.
Sorry for rambling.
That's good.
Can I continue?
Sure.
Continue, Commissioner.
So I know you, so you've got an active option contract on
this particular land with this particular, for this
particular development.
And you selected or are trying to get that through because
of what the project is, correct?
And it's not one of these other entities that is interested
in building a multifamily development.
Okay, thanks.
Thank you.
I see no other questions.
Thank you for your comments.
Thank you for your time.
Appreciate your support.
Next court I have is Jeff Withers, 1000 Lindhurst Lane,
Denton, in support.
Another item.
Can you tell us which item that will be?
He said he wrote the card.
Yeah, he did.
Okay.
Thank you.
Next court I have is Roger Daly, 1227 Bayfield Street, Dent
on, in support.
Hello, I'm Roger Daly.
I'm a resident of the immediate area and I'm also involved
in this project.
And I guess the real question here is can we provide
affordable housing with the accelerated cost of housing,
the products that go into it?
That's the real key here.
For us to deliver a product that your sons or daughters can
afford, because what's happened at $270,000, which is the
median price last year, that was up 16% over the year
before.
So our goal is to be able to deliver a product that these
people can buy and have home ownership and have all the
attributes of raising a family, not in an apartment.
But for me, where I live, which is a townhome project, and
the traffic, I understand this gentleman's concern.
As far as the brick veneer goes, brick veneer is just that.
It's aesthetic.
It's not structural.
A lot of people think it is, and it's not.
Our product will be architecturally sound and would blend
into the neighborhood, but I'm for this.
Do you have any questions?
I see no questions.
Thank you for your comments.
Next card I have is Kim McKibbin, 1306 West Hickory, in
opposition.
Good evening. My name is Kim McKibbin. It's 1306 West Hick
ory Street in Denton.
I guess I'm going to be probably the lone wolf on this one,
and I am here to say that I have to agree with the Planning
and Zoning Commission.
This is not about affordable housing.
This is about zoning.
This is about sticking to our future land use plan.
This is about making sure that the things that we think are
going in are absolutely going in and are not going to get
changed later.
I did go out and look at the area prior to coming here
tonight.
What they showed you pictures of do not match anything that
's in that area.
I'm probably the only one here that's going to speak that
doesn't have something to gain from this.
Everyone I've heard, this is our project, and we're trying
to provide this.
I don't know how many people in Denton make $75,000 a year.
Not as many as you might think.
$250,000 for a 1,500 square foot house may be reasonable,
but you also have to consider, even with that, they're
looking at 7,000 square foot lots.
That's a 70 by 100.
When I lived over on Denton Street in a 1920s house, the
lot was 100 feet by 60 feet wide.
So the houses will not have space around them in these
areas.
They will fill up most of the lot.
I don't know how much space the roads are going to take up.
And even when I was trying to get through some of the
neighborhoods tonight, you cannot put two cars down the
streets if cars are parked on both sides.
I doubt that any of these houses that there will be less
than two cars in them.
I also would question from being an accessibility expert,
how accessible are these little two story houses?
Is there a living area and a full bath on the bottom floor?
Are all the bedrooms on the top floors?
How long is this going to be a livable alternative for some
of the people they're looking at?
But back to it once again, I am in, I'm trying to support
the future land use plan that we have going forward.
We will have brand new zoning things by the first of the
year possibly.
So we need to be looking forward and to stick with what we
've got.
So this is a zoning issue, and I think that the heart
strings are being pulled out on affordability housing.
Thank you.
>> Thank you for your comments.
I don't see any questions.
I have one other card that's not marked with an agenda item
from Prudence Sanchez.
I don't know if you want to speak on this item or not.
Okay.
And you're marked in support.
>> My name is Prudence Sanchez.
I live at 711 Jackson Street here in Denton.
My husband is Alfredo Sanchez, who recused himself.
I am one of the associate executive directors at Denton
Affordable Housing.
I started out as a board member there because I do believe
that we need affordable housing here in Denton.
I just wanted to say that I am here in support of, excuse
me, of the project, and not the project,
but of the affordable housing that we need here in Denton.
And I believe that when we say that it's a zoning issue, we
're really looking at form over substance.
And I think that it's important to use the land in the
highest and best use that is available for us.
And I spoke to two people just this week, two young couples
, and they work 40-hour weeks.
And my heart hurt, and I don't mind pulling heartstrings
because we all have them.
She said, I don't think, you know, we'll ever be able to
afford a house.
She says, I don't even think that's on the radar.
And she works 40 hours a week. Her husband does, too.
And I just believe that owning a home is still a part of
the American dream.
I am in support of multifamily as well.
But when you drive up to your house and that's your house,
that means something to you.
And when you hear, you know, these young couples spending
over $1,200 a month on rent,
and you know that that's a large part of their income, it
just doesn't make sense.
I'm a landlord, so I don't bash landlords.
But I still believe that people who work hard every day
should have the ability and the option to own a home.
And you know, when we -- the difference between nine houses
and not providing affordable housing, that just doesn't add
up.
So I'm in support of it.
And I hope that the zoning planning and the zoning
commission take that into consideration.
Thank you.
This is a public hearing.
I don't have any other cards.
Anyone else who would like to speak on this item, please
come forward at this time.
Anyone else?
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing and I will
open the floor for discussion or a motion.
Commissioner Smith.
I make a motion to accept -- or I make a motion to approve
the zoning change from NR2 to NR6.
Just a quick public statement about this.
We are so close to it being NR4 and NR4 being classified as
a low density and that within the staff analysis that we
are already pretty much right on the cusp of -- or if not
already amicable to what other areas around that plot are
already doing, being that they are already close between
three and five dwellings per acre.
That it doesn't seem like it will be that abrupt of a
change.
Also with there an adjoining apartment complex being -- or
not adjoining but caddy corner apartment complex already
having high density in that area, I don't think NR6 with
the project that's proposed really would be that outlandish
.
So I do make that motion.
Okay.
Commissioner Beck.
Thank you, Chair.
And I second that with a public comment too.
I normally probably wouldn't.
Ms. McKibbin, I appreciate her comments always and we're
usually in agreement with each other.
And I think in another situation, and I have in fact our
last meeting, I was opposed to where one zone was encro
aching and another one where it shouldn't have.
But again, the product here that's being presented is to me
it's amenable to the area.
There is -- we all know there is a great need for
affordable housing.
And this is a good opportunity to take advantage of it.
So I second the motion.
Okay.
We have a first and a second.
Any further discussion?
Commissioner Ellis.
Thank you, Chair.
Just a couple of comments.
Zoning issues I take very seriously.
We all do.
Knowing the area here, hearing what I heard tonight and all
the concerns, I do feel like this is a fit for this area
and that the zoning change to NR6 is something that I can
support.
Okay.
We have a first and a second for approval.
And I will call for a vote on the board.
That motion is going to carry 4-0.
You need to go on.
Thank Commissioner Smith for coming up.
He had a prior commitment and we were shorthanded tonight
and I appreciate him changing his schedule to come help us
get this item.
And I appreciate everybody's understanding and let us
change the order of our agenda.
With that, we will invite Commissioner Sanchez back and let
the room clear.
With that, we will return to our regular agenda.
And so we're going to move to what is item two, consider
approval of our zoning commission meeting minutes.
And the Chair would entertain a motion for these two items
individually.
Commissioner Ellis.
Thank you, Chair.
I move we approve October 25th planning and zoning meeting
minutes.
Okay.
Commissioner Beck.
Second.
Okay.
I move and second.
Any discussion?
Seeing none, call for a vote on the board.
The motion is going to carry 4-0.
Chair would entertain a motion on the amendments for
November 8th.
Commissioner Beck.
I move we approve the minutes for November the 8th.
Thank you.
Okay.
Do we have a second?
We do, Chair.
I'll second.
Okay.
Thank you, Commissioner Ellis.
We have a first and a second.
Seeing no request for discussion, I'll call for a vote on
the board.
That motion is going to carry 4-0.
That will take us to our consent agenda.
Commissioner Beck.
I move we approve the consent agenda.
Okay.
The Chair will second and we will call for a vote on the
board.
Commissioner Sanchez.
We missed your vote.
Are you for or against?
Okay.
I thought I hit it.
Let's see.
For.
For?
Okay.
So we have that motion will carry 4-0.
The consent agenda is approved.
Well, just as a point of order on our item four for
individual consideration, our planning
and zoning commission calendar, we had some discussion on
that item in our work session,
and there were a couple of dates that we were going to take
a look at.
And so that item will come back before us at our next
meeting.
I believe it will be December the 13th.
So that will come back before us.
Do we need to take a motion on that for continuing since it
's not a notice?
I assume it's our pleasure.
Okay.
So just an announcement on that.
So that will move us back to our public hearing section.
And at this time, I'm going to open the public hearing for
item A, which is Z17-0025.
This is an item that the applicant has requested to be
continued.
So the chair would entertain a motion to that effect to
date certain of January the 10th.
Commissioner Beck.
Thank you, Chair.
I move we approve a continuance on this to a date certain
of January 10th.
Okay.
Commissioner Sanchez.
I second that motion.
Okay.
I second.
I have a first and a second.
This item will remain open, and we will vote on this motion
to continue to date certain
January 10th.
Commissioner Sanchez, I think yours.
That motion will carry four to zero.
We have already worked through item 5B.
That will move us to item 5C.
And I'm going to open the public hearing for Z17-008 and
call on Julie Wyatt for presentation
of this item.
We will have a second public hearing on this item in
regards to SUP, and that will be a
separate presentation and will be a separate vote.
So although these are two -- first of all, I'm Julie Wyatt,
Senior Planner with the City
of Denton.
And so I'm presenting two cases tonight.
They're related to each other, and so I'm going to kind of
combine the presentations
together, but it will be a separate action when you move
forward on that.
So right now I'm presenting Z17-08 and S17-10, the pall
adium.
So the two requests before you tonight, the first one is a
zoning case.
It's to consider a rezoning from community mixed use
general district to neighborhood
residential mixed use.
And then the second request is for a specific use permit
for multifamily development.
The property is about a seven and a half acre property.
It's located adjacent to Sherman and Poinsettia, just south
of Loop 288.
So like I said, we're going to first go through the zoning
item.
And so these are depictions of the proposed rezoning.
So we've got the existing zoning here.
It currently has a CMG zoning district that's all of the
pink, and they are proposing to
rezone it to the NRMU, which is the red.
And as you can see, that is adjacent to an existing NRMU,
and it would be a logical
continuation of this existing zoning pattern that exists
across Sherman to the west.
So the criteria for approval for rezoning cases are first,
does the rezoning meet the
future land use element of Denton Plan 2030?
And then second, does the proposed rezoning facilitate
adequate provision of public
infrastructure?
So first we're going to look at the future land use element
.
So this is in our Denton Plan 2030.
That plan designated this area as community mixed use.
And this is intended to provide a mix of uses in terms of
commercial service and moderate
to higher density residential.
Staff looked at this and determined that the proposed NRMU
meets this future land use.
So typically we see that CMG or the community mixed use in
the future land use plan is typically
CMG.
However, because of the adjacency to the single family
residential in the neighborhoods,
staff felt that NRMU was more appropriate in this area
because it still permitted that
mix of uses.
It still has some commercial uses and some residential uses
, but it was at a lower scale,
so it would be more compatible with the nearby residential.
In looking at public facilities, there's water and sewer
available on Point Setup.
Impact fees would be assessed at the time of development
and building permit.
There are two roads that we'll look at for Sherman Drive.
Currently it's a four lane undivided, but it is considered
a primary arterial within
the city of Denton.
So the ultimate roadway segment of a primary arterial is a
six lane divided road.
Dedications and improvements on Sherman may be required at
the time of platting.
Point Setup is the other road that is adjacent to the
subject property.
It is currently developed as a two lane undeveloped road
with parking on either side.
This is in conformance with the designation of the road as
a main street mixed use collector.
Per our Denton Development Code, those are to be designed
as two lane undivided roads
with parking on either side.
As with Sherman, at the time of platting there may be
additional right of way dedications
or improvements required.
In this instance there will probably be sidewalks required
on the north side of Point Setup.
And platting will be required for development.
I know there's been some discussion about some of the
growth and the roadways and the
impacts of new development in this area.
So we wanted to bring forward a plat that was recently
approved by this commission earlier
this year and it's in fact going to be filed soon.
And it is for the Harvest Hill neighborhood.
So we kind of overlaid it on the existing aerial to show
you how the new subdivision
will match up with the existing development.
So you can see here that Point Setup currently it does dead
end at about this location.
It will curve to the north once this neighborhood is put in
and will eventually once the
Loop 288 access roads are constructed it will join up with
that access road.
It also then there is another street that then ties into
Point Setup and provides access
for some of those neighborhoods.
So that is the intent and the future plan for that roadway.
Julie, can I ask a question?
Sure.
While we're here we have plats come before us a lot of
times and we don't see anything
actually develop.
The parcel that you brought up and brought to our attention
that's currently under development.
They've already rough cut the streets so it's not just
paper and some day they're
currently developing that and that infrastructure is going
in.
Absolutely, yes sir.
Okay, thank you.
So although the request does meet the future land use and
does meet the intent of that,
we did want to take a little deeper dive on this request
and just look at the compatibility
of the adjacent development and surrounding zoning.
So currently the property has a CMG zoning district and
that's one of our commercial
zoning districts and it allows a broad array of commercial
uses.
Some of those include vehicle repair, motels, big box
retail, auto sales, quick vehicle
servicing with no SUP is required and that's a gas station.
And then a drive through with no SUP required.
So something like a McDonald's could go in by rights today
on this property under
current zoning.
Commissioner Beck.
Thank you, Chair.
At this point then these items here that are allowed in CMG
, they're not allowed in RMU.
Is that correct?
No sir.
Or for instance the quick vehicle servicing or the drive
through like a drive through bank
or something that would require a specific use permit and
additional scrutiny by the
Planning and Zoning Commission and approval by council.
Yes sir.
Great, thank you.
So as we talked in a work session, we see community mixed
use near residential areas
all the time in Denton.
We see it on Teasley, we see it on University.
The difference between that CMG and this CMG is that that
typically backs up to residential.
So you will have the CMG fronting the primary arterial
within the residential, the rear
property lines abutting to each other.
In those instances, landscape buffers are required and in
some cases screening walls.
So it provides that mitigation for any nuisances, light,
noise and then also controls the access
to those residential areas.
So that's the difference in where we typically see CMG in
this city and in this instance.
In this instance CMG is near to residential properties or
within proximity of residential
properties but it's across the street.
So they're actually facing each other.
So no buffers would be required and that physical mechanism
of backing up wouldn't be there
to limit that access or require that buffer.
And so that factored into our analysis.
Also under current zoning, multifamily is a permitted use.
It does have two limitations.
First, L4, that the multifamily use must be a part of a
mixed use development or obtain
approval of a specific use permit.
The limitation 6L6 requires commercial uses on the ground
floor of multifamily developments
along any collector, arterial or avenue.
So in this instance multifamily could be developed on this
side if it was a part of a mixed use
development but that commercial would have to be located on
poinsettia on the ground
floor facing those residential properties that are existing
.
NRMU limits the types of developments.
So it limits the commercial uses.
It does have some commercial uses but it does reduce the
scale of that and the intensity
of those uses.
It pulls back some of those uses like the auto sales or the
large retail.
NRMU would provide a logical extension or a logical
transition between the single family
residential to the south and the commercial development
that you do typically see along
highways like loop 288 or arterials like Sherman Drive.
You typically see commercial development in those areas but
to have a transition area
to provide some buffer between those uses will mitigate
some of those nuisances that
may be caused by commercial development.
So based upon the criteria for approval in the development
code, first the requested
NRMU is consistent with the future land use because it is a
mixed use zoning district.
And it also provides that appropriate transition between
the districts to allow some mix of
uses but with a reduced scale and intensity.
That concludes the zoning portion.
If anybody has any questions, otherwise I'll just start
with the specific use.
Commissioner Beck.
Thank you, Chair.
Just real quickly, and maybe I probably should have waited
to the SGP, but could you explain
egress and egress has to be on point set and not Sherman?
Certainly.
For either CMG or NRMU?
Certainly, yes.
And that access requirement spans zoning districts.
So it would be the requirement regardless of what the
zoning district was.
But the DENT development code treats arterials in a special
way in that the intent of an arterial
is to move cars as quickly as possible from one point of
the city to the other, across
the city.
And so it limits the access to arterials, limits the number
of driveways that businesses
can have on arterials.
And so the code states that if a development can get access
from a lesser street, in this
case Poinsettia, which is a collector, then they must take
access from that lesser street.
That's a code requirement for all developments.
So it's clear to me that regardless of what goes over there
, CMG or NRMU, there's going
to be some intense development there as opposed to single
family.
We're not going to be able to build single family resid
ences there.
It's not permitted under friend zoning.
Okay.
Thank you.
All right.
So we'll move to the specific use permit.
So the criteria for approval are in Chapter 6 of the DENT
development code.
And essentially our analysis is the compatibility between
the uses.
We want to make sure that the proposed use would not impede
the normal and orderly development
of the surrounding vacant property, that the parking and
the traffic and the access do
not create a nuisance or unreasonable nuisance around the
property, that there would be any
nuisance prevention, you know, odors or particulate matter,
that those would be abated, and that
there's adequate landscaping and screening, and that
architectural compatibility is appropriate
for the character of the area.
So those are some of the analysis points we look at.
In terms of this request, they are proposing a traditional
multifamily development of 150
units, a combination of one, two, and three bedroom units.
They are proposing stone accents with earth tone colors for
the exterior building materials
and color palette.
And this development is intended to be a mixed income
development.
And in fact, City Council approved a resolution of support
for this proposed development in
February of this year.
And just to talk briefly about this site plan, a word of
caution, this is conceptual.
It hasn't gone through all of the reviews with the site
plan, but it's generally showing
you what they're proposing.
So yes, they are proposing access off of Poinsettia.
They do have the buildings oriented adjacent to the street.
The Denton Development Code requires for multifamily
developments that the parking be placed behind
the buildings to reduce any visual impacts for parking and
so that the buildings are
moved forward.
They would also have to meet all street tree, parking lot
landscaping, and tree canopy requirements.
In addition to architectural requirements, multifamily in
the City of Denton requires
40% masonry.
So that will all be something that will be reviewed during
site plan.
These are the conceptual elevations that the applicant
submitted and as well as their color
palette.
So when we analyze the request based upon the criteria of
approval, first of all, does
it meet the Denton -- does it meet Denton Plan 2030?
And multifamily development does meet the intent of
community mixed use because it is
a moderate density housing or higher density housing.
So it does meet that mix of uses in that -- intended for
that area.
There's also another goal in the Denton Plan 2030 about
housing choice and affordable housing.
And that is to expand those choices for our Denton
residents not only in affordable housing
but also in location.
So this meets that goal that plan set forth.
The proposed multifamily would create a physical buffer
between the neighborhoods and the commercial
corridor.
So under current zoning, multifamily could be located on
the street but it would have
to have a commercial component on the lower floor which
would be facing those residential
properties.
So by rezoning to NRMU and then the additional SUP approval
, it would ensure that there would
be residential properties at that location.
So there would be some sort of comfort that that
residential would be there across the
street from existing residential.
So it would have that -- those two uses are more compatible
together and it would remove
that requirement to have that commercial facing those
residential properties.
The SUP for multifamily would allow those land uses to
transition.
So it would provide a transitional area.
We've got lower density to the south of the property and
then you move to that NRMU 12
with the townhome development on Poinsettia and then the
multifamily and then to the commercial.
So it would allow that gradual transition of uses from
residential to commercial properties.
The proposed development must meet all Denton development
code requirements for screening,
parking, lighting, street trees and tree canopy.
And that is -- it's one of those things like keeping the
parking behind the buildings to
make sure that those visual impacts are muted.
To have those street trees, you know, Poinsettia has the
most lovely street trees, that neighborhood.
They've got the street trees in the parkway and it just
looks so nice.
So that's something that would be required of the proposed
development as well.
And then the muted color palette that they're proposing is
consistent with the nearby residential
development.
Public notification was sent out for both requests.
We've received 19 in opposition.
Seven of those are within that 200 foot buffer and we did
talk in the work session that that
6% of the property area within that 200 foot buffer.
We received one response in favor and you can see that in
the green.
The responses in opposition are in the red.
There are conditions that staff proposes on this first that
a full site plan will be submitted
to the city just to ensure that it does meet all those Dent
on development code requirements.
And that the exterior building materials must maintain
those muted colors.
So based upon those conditions, staff recommends approval
of the request because it is consistent
with not only the future land use but the goals of housing
choice within the city of Denton.
And that we feel it's an appropriate transition between
what's existing there and what will
eventually be developed there at the corner of 288 and
Sherman Drive.
And I'll stand for any questions and the applicant's here.
Commissioner Beck.
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Julie.
Could you go back to that site plan that showed the layout
of these apartments?
You mentioned there would be street trees.
Is that what those looks like three?
This isn't the landscape plan.
There will be a landscape plan in addition to the site plan
.
Okay.
So there's going to be more there than those three dots.
And I'm assuming that the apartments will be the back sides
will be facing point seven,
not the entrances.
They'll be facing in towards a parking lot.
So it will be kind of like a wall there?
Well, the code has pretty specific requirements for multif
amily.
So it does require that there be that it be oriented toward
the street and that stairwells
can't be the prominent feature.
So that's why, I mean, and that is something that they'll
get to when they get to the
building permit stage.
But, you know, we want to make sure that we provide
pedestrian access as well in addition
to that it presents well to the street.
You know, sometimes the backs of buildings don't always
look the same as the front of
the building.
So we want to make sure that that architecture that
presents to the street looks just as
good as where people are walking in.
That's the intent of that requirement.
Okay, gotcha.
Thank you.
Commissioner Ellis.
Thank you, Joe.
Julie, can you just give a little bit more detail on what
it is that City Council approved
in February?
Sure.
So they are they are using for their financing structure
something called housing tax credits
through the state of Texas.
As part of that application, they went to our City Council
to ask for a recommendation
of support for their proposal so that they can present that
as a package to the state
of Texas to try to secure those housing tax credits for
their financing.
They may be able to say that they're they might be able to
provide a little more about
how that that process works, but that's that's what the
City Council looked at.
Julie, I'd like for you to go back to the slide that has
the list of what can go there
and CMG.
You don't mind the uses.
So currently, I am clear your point in the commercial,
typically on the north side of
points that would be housing in the backs of those homes,
what about commercial?
That's what we typically see.
Yes.
This is not that same type scenario that we would normally
have.
Correct.
And so what we're faced with as a commission is, and I don
't want to disperse anybody's
project kind of the lesser you could have under right right
now you could do McDonald's,
what a burgers dry cleaners facing out on to point set up
and all the traffic and all
the use that goes with that.
Yes, sir.
By right.
Yes, sir.
Can't do anything about it.
This is long.
It meets our development criteria design criteria is
approved.
Any uses that are permitted in that CMG district could go
in by right with without any public
hearing, they would just have to plat and then and then
meet the site plan and building
permit requirements.
And so with that matter of fact that we have, instead of
these homes having any kind of
protection of another line of houses to the north, this
actually put some separation between
the existing neighborhoods and what ultimately is going to
be very high density commercial
uses out there on that corner.
It's a transition.
And that's one of the things that I know we look at a lot
of times at this commission
is how do we go from low density to high density?
We don't have that in this case.
We have essentially low density residential here and you
can have right across the street,
the highest of this razor ranch type projects here.
And so by having this apartment community there, it's going
to transition the existing
neighborhood that's there of low to a medium with
apartments.
And then on the north side of that, we'll have the high
commercial use.
And so I just want to make sure that I'm clear and for all
of us that are here tonight are
clear as what can go there.
And so if we don't take action on this tonight, all these
other uses can go there by right.
Okay.
Thank you very much.
I don't see any other questions.
So thank you so much.
I have a lot of cards.
And bear with me.
I will get through these and hopefully do well on everyone
's names.
The first card I have is for Ryan Combs, the applicant.
If you'll give us, please come forward and give us your
name and address and you'll have
10 minutes to present your project.
Thank you so much for allowing me to be here.
My name is Ryan Combs.
I am with Palladium USA and we are the developer.
We've been working on this development for quite a while
now.
As you saw, we were in front of City Council back in
February and Palladium, just a little
bit of a background on Palladium, to be very brief, is that
we are a privately owned company.
We're 140 years old and in a third generation of privately
owned.
Our world headquarters is in Milan, Italy.
Our American headquarters are here in Dallas.
And that's where I'm at.
And what we have done for the past 140 years is develop --
pardon me, I'm getting over a little bit of stuff so I may
have to clear my throat.
So I apologize in advance.
What we've done for the past 140 years is develop the
nicest residential rental communities around the world.
And we've got properties that we own in Italy, Rome, Paris,
London, really some of the best markets around the world.
And we've come here to Dallas about five years ago.
So we do that here in the United States as well.
We've got a 30-story high-rise that we're developing next
door to Liberty Mutual's new headquarters in Plano.
And so it's going to be the fanciest, nicest new
residential rental development in all of Dallas-Fort Worth.
But what we realized about five years ago is that here in
North Texas in particular is just experiencing massive
growth.
And there is -- there's opportunity that comes with that,
but there's challenges that come with that.
And the city of Denton has realized that there is just a
real dramatic, real need for affordable housing.
It really is kind of amazing to me.
It wasn't that long ago that I bought my first house, and
my first house was $110,000.
And I look now and I go, okay, so the entry level into a
house is $250,000, and that's what's considered affordable
these days.
The world has really changed very, very rapidly.
And so what we started doing about five years ago was
taking our same product, our Class A product, and going and
transitioning it to serve the workforce that is really just
completely priced out of the market.
We're talking about child care workers, medical
professionals, our public servants.
How do these people go and afford a quarter million dollar
home?
Well, the answer is they can't.
And so really what we do is we go build Class A housing.
We're looking at developing 150 units.
It'll cost us $26 million, which is about $170,000 a unit.
So this is Class A development, but we're positioning it to
serve the workforce, the people that need good quality
housing and want to eventually buy that $250,000 house but
just can't get there yet.
And so that's what we do.
We are not a merchant builder.
We don't build properties and flip them and sell them.
Because we're privately owned, we build properties and hold
them long term.
We've got stuff in Western Europe that we've held for over
100 years.
And that's what we plan to do here.
We plan to be long-term neighbors.
We've come to this area, and I think staff did a great job
of really kind of laying it out.
We started looking at CMG, and we really started developing
.
We're buying seven and a half acres from a gentleman who
owns about 20.
There's about 30 acres there, and he owns 20 of it.
And so we started working with him on doing a mixed-use
plan inside this CMG, which we are allowed to do, a multif
amily development inside that.
But then we get to this L6 requirement that requires
commercial on the bottom floor, and it really just does not
make sense.
And so I think staff made a great -- framed it really,
really well that in our MU,
this zoning allows us to really create a buffer between
what is going to ultimately be high-intensity commercial
uses
and our quality affordable housing and the residential that
's existing to our south.
So with that, I'm glad to answer any questions that you may
have.
Commissioner Beck.
Thank you, Mr. Combs, for your presentation. Appreciate it.
One of the biggest concerns we've heard from residents in
the community is a concern for increased traffic.
Have you got any kind of response for them that would allay
their concerns?
Has a traffic impact analysis been done yet?
We are currently -- and I have our civil engineer here with
me, and he might be able to speak more specifically to this
.
I can speak generally in that the city is requiring us to
do a traffic impact analysis.
I know we are looking at pretty much all of the
intersections in the area around,
and we're going to have to comply with whatever that third-
party traffic impact analysis tells us we need to do.
We will -- I don't think we have a choice. I think we'll
have to comply with it.
I think one area where you may be asked to go above and
beyond -- and just let me throw it out.
Would you consider, you know, to offset more traffic
hitting points that are going out on Sherman,
would it be conceivable to create a right-turn lane there
so that left -- so not everybody's in one lane to take a
left or a right.
A dedicated right-turn lane there?
Yes.
I don't know if we can see what kind of room we have there,
but, you know, I know that our traffic impact analysis is
going to look at the loading of how many cars can fit and
turn right
and what that's going to do at the peak times of the day.
Okay.
So that's something that we're going to study and make sure
that it's adequately taken care of.
And this TIA will take into consideration this development
-- this housing development?
That's right. It will take into consideration --
How much of that will come down points --
-- the flats and everything else that's already approved in
the city.
Yes, sir.
Okay. Okay. Thank you.
I have no other questions. Thank you.
Thank you.
The next card I have is Sharon Herman in opposition.
After Ms. Herman, I have to be followed by Rebecca Garcia.
I'm Sharon Herman. I live at 1305 Manton, which is one
house off the corner of Poinsettia.
I'm not -- I don't usually come and do things like this.
Kind of bear with me. I'm probably not your most eloquent
speaker.
Were you allowed to ask the developer any questions?
Typically, you could ask a question here and then we could
take it back.
Ask him?
Yes, ma'am.
Okay.
Because as I understand it, they're looking at -- now I
know these two proposals are kind of blended together.
I assume that one depends on the other one's passage.
That's correct.
That's correct. That's what I understand.
Yes, ma'am.
Okay. And if you change it, it's right now CMG.
Yes.
So these things can go in.
I'm looking at, you know, for the size of the parcel, you
can't really put a motel there unless you put like a little
tiny one.
Big box retail, we're not really looking at a two-story
Pennys or Macy's or anything like that.
I'm looking at a vehicle repair, auto sales, McDonald's,
Whataburger.
Who knows? Maybe we'd get a Texas Roadhouse.
But none of which are generally two-story buildings.
They're all level, one story.
150 units with two to three-story possibility.
We're talking about adding 300 cars all coming out on Poins
ettia.
All right. That's assuming there's only two cars per
dwelling.
The likelihood of that probably is not real feasible.
So maybe we're looking at 450 cars we're adding to Poinsett
ia on top of the additional traffic that we're adding with
Harvest Hill when they get their finished subdivision going
.
Everything's going to have to exit onto Sherman Drive, okay
, because there's no other way.
Unless they decide to cut right in front of my house and
take Minton and cut through the subdivision that way.
We have a lot of small children in the area.
Makes it a little scary.
And if any of you all have ever tried to exit the loop on
Football Friday, okay, right?
You can't do it.
Now add 450 more cars to that possibility.
It's not conceivable.
The infrastructure is not there for this development yet.
Would it be maybe eventually?
Yes, but I think you're trying to put the cart before the
horse.
The businesses, I don't see them decreasing the property
values as much because as I'm sorry, I forgot your name,
said that they have to have buffers.
So if you put businesses in, we're looking at some sign of
cement walls, brick walls, something like that that's going
to buffer the neighborhood, okay?
Whereas the apartment buildings don't have to have that.
Maybe they have to have some nice landscaping.
But basically what I'm looking at is two or three story
people sitting out on their balcony looking at my backyard
like a fishbowl.
All right?
And that's not why we bought in that neighborhood.
This is not a startup neighborhood.
This is one of your better neighborhoods in Denton.
I think it's going to turn it into a startup neighborhood.
Thank you.
I have a question for you.
I'm sorry.
Come back to my question.
You're back.
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Sharon, for your presentation.
Just one quick question.
You made a comment about your concern about apartments dev
aluing property.
Okay.
Is that just assumed or do you have some data that would
support that conclusion?
I don't because I really didn't know what to expect coming
to this meeting at all.
Okay.
Had I really realized what was going on, I probably would
have had my own slide presentation.
Okay.
I do wonder why though, as long as you ask, why a traffic
study wasn't done prior to the voting on this instead of
saying, oh, well, we'll do a traffic study after we approve
it.
Because it sounds like it's already been semi-approved
without the community input.
I can't answer that.
I'll let somebody else.
But I just want to point out, and I live up the road from
now.
I'm on Sherman Drive.
Were you aware that if you go down Coronado there, two
blocks off Sherman, on Bell, you have a row.
You have the Section 8 housing.
You have a row of townhouses on the south side of Coronado.
And then you have all those apartments up there.
I do.
I haven't seen anything that devalues property with that
condition there.
So I would question whether that's a certainty that
apartments are automatically going to devalue.
Do I believe that?
Yes, I do.
Understand?
I understand you believe that.
Well, you've got potentially 300 plus people coming into
all those people that are in Colorado and all down there.
They're all coming up Sherman trying to get on the loop.
So they're all coming up there.
Now, those people are going to be coming into the people
coming off of Poinsettia, which is the other 300 to 450
vehicles that are coming on there.
That can't not devalue your property because traffic
patterns and quiet and noise reduction is all part of what
makes our neighborhood a really nice neighborhood.
Okay.
I have one more question for you.
Commissioner Sanchez.
Well, I actually had you mentioned about buffers.
I think they mentioned earlier that if the business come in
, they'll be facing, they'll also be facing Poinsettia.
So they wouldn't be putting buffers because they'd be
facing right, they'd be coming off into Poinsettia.
And you mentioned that they would have to put buffers
between Poinsettia and...
They'll have to put something because they're not going to
just remove the entire curb and open that whole thing up to
the business.
So you're going to have to have an entrance type of thing.
Okay.
And they're not going to be looking in my backyard.
I was just kind of, I was just going by what I thought I
heard that they'd be coming in.
Yeah, I thought you said buffers too.
But I thought you said if there were businesses, they
wouldn't have buffers.
The buffer would be the road.
Is that correct?
Sure.
I'm sorry, I forgot to ask you.
So because there is a right of way separating the single
family residential uses and the commercial zoning, no buff
ers would be required.
Okay, for the businesses?
Business, no, yeah, nothing.
And there's nothing required for the apartments?
No, ma'am, only when those uses are abutting.
Okay.
So the businesses might not have buffers, but we don't lose
anything because the apartments won't even...
We can't do two, so if you have some comments you would
like to make so we can get them on the record, people are
watching and they can't hear you.
I'm sorry.
My statement was just if the businesses don't have any buff
ers, but the apartments and things don't have to have any
buffers.
So really it's a wash.
We haven't lost anything either way other than the two-
story, the 450 vehicles.
Leaving in the morning, coming home at night compared to
the businesses, we're not going to get 450.
I don't care what kind of business you put there.
You are not going to get 450 cars there at 8 o'clock in the
morning and 5 o'clock at night.
Okay, great.
I'll ask you later for a clarification also.
Will you clarify in your presentation, is multifamily
allowed there already?
Yes, sir.
At this site?
Yes, sir.
So multifamily can go on this site as is.
The only difference is on the SUP is whether it's going to
have retail on the bottom.
Yes, sir.
So multifamily is allowed on the site as is.
So this is essentially a down zone from what's currently
allowed there to go from CMG to the NRBU.
Yes, sir.
Okay, thank you.
The next speaker I have is Rebecca Garcia to be followed by
Jean Golf.
Hi, my name is Becky Garcia and I live right on the corner.
My concern is I always knew something was coming in there.
We thought it was going to be some more town homes.
We thought it was, you know, we take the low income.
If they don't want them at that low place, we'll take the
low income houses.
You know, my home is there.
It's not my house.
It's my home.
It's their home.
We have a really, I'm getting emotional, we have a really,
really nice community.
We like each other with a couple of, two that maybe lets
their dog, you know, pick, they don't pick up their poop.
But we like each other.
We know who we are.
We know almost everybody in the neighborhood.
One of my big concerns is sitting right there with these
older ladies.
They live on the town homes.
When they first put the town homes in, they were going to
go two stories.
And we thought we don't want two stories because you're
going to be looking into our yards.
I have a pool.
I don't think they want to see me swimming in my pool.
I don't want them looking in my pool.
So I'm thinking, I understand the apartments are going to
go in.
But they're not really homes.
They're apartments.
We live in homes.
We have children.
I've got students that live in the complex.
When I moved in, my friend said, "You are moving into a
community where your kids you teach, they're in your
community."
I said, "That's where I want to live. I want to see them
grow up."
And they have.
They've grown up.
They have kids.
They come back.
We're all still there.
So, okay, McDonald's would be okay.
Car dealership, maybe not.
Can there possibly be a buffer instead of a three-story
apartment right on our poinsettia to maybe two and then go
up?
Does it have to be just three right in front of us?
I mean, is that a consideration?
Or have they already decided on what they're doing?
Because, you know, if you go in our neighborhood, you see
people walking, the early birds walking at -- I don't know
what time you guys get up.
At 7 o'clock in the morning, they're walking.
They're walking at 2 o'clock.
We got kids all over the place, scooters, bikes.
We got the dad who's training his kid I know to be a
marathon because they're running all the time.
The kids play basketball out there on the streets.
Where are these kids going to go?
There's no park.
Even if you put a sidewalk, there's no place to go.
So what are they going to do?
I mean, so I understand we're going to be a buffer, but
maybe, you know, have a little bit more.
And you haven't even considered the -- I got 20 seconds --
the Sherman's Crossing that's going across.
I mean, so we're getting ready to get inundated with a ton
of traffic.
Thank you.
Oh, and Mr. Beck, thank you.
I know you gave us a lot of information on our -- so we
kind of helped us.
Thank you very much.
Thank you for your comments.
Next speaker is Janine Goff to be followed by Camille Haz
ard.
Good evening.
My name is Jean Marie Goff, and I live at 1301 Manton.
Excuse me.
I'm in the corner.
I'm Sharon's neighbor.
I've lived in my home for 16 years, and it is a home.
Becky mentioned that behind us when the townhomes went in,
typically you think of a townhome as being two-story.
We came to Planning and Zoning and told them our concerns,
and the builders ended up building single-level townhomes.
It's very unusual.
They look more like quadruplexes or triplexes or at the
very far end of the street duplexes.
And as it turned out, I think, as was already noted, many
of the women that are sitting here live in those townhomes.
It's a lifesaver for women and older people who don't want
to climb the stairs.
I tell you what, I tried to buy one of those a couple of
years ago, and you can't.
I mean, people are holding onto them.
They do not want to sell those.
I mean, they are a moneymaker.
They're a cash cow.
That's, in my opinion, what should go across the street on
Poinsettia.
One of my concerns is because so many people that live in
the townhomes are retired people,
we're looking at an apartment complex that will appeal to
younger people.
I'm not so sure what kind of a good mix that is for the
neighborhood.
I'm also concerned about, of course, generation of the
traffic.
I do think that the NRMU is a good change.
I've read the comparisons, and I do think it's a good move
to move to that away from the CMG.
I also want to mention that I would be happier to see townh
omes go over there instead of apartments,
because as Becky said, we are homeowners, not as many ren
ters in the neighborhood.
I am concerned about three-story.
It was written in the document, the staff analysis, that my
community consisted of one- and two-story homes.
There are no two-story homes in my neighborhood.
So when these three-story apartments go in, it's going to
look very different.
I mean, not two-story, but they are going to be three-story
with all of our one-story homes.
So I have a concern about three-story homes.
And as Sharon said, the traffic, trying to get in and out
of the neighborhood, even when Poinsettia opens up at the
other end, there'll be a lot of traffic.
But my concern is the three-stories, the traffic, the type
of people who come in with the apartments.
The other thing is they haven't addressed, they have asked
for the lower income subsidies.
What percentage of the apartments are going to be for this
group of people who meet the 50 to 60% of the median income
?
That's another thing, another concern that we have in our
neighborhood.
So I thank you very much for your time.
>> Thank you for coming out to sign and sharing your
comments.
>> Thank you.
>> Next speaker I have is Camille Hazard in opposition to
be followed by Leslie Walder.
>> Hello, my name is Camille Hazard.
I live at 1514 Poinsettia, so I will be a direct neighbor
across the street from whatever goes in.
We are definitely opposed.
As all our neighbors have mentioned, and I'm sure more will
come up, it is a community.
It is small homes.
It feels like a home, even though we live in a townhouse.
We do not want to look at a three-story apartment complex.
I have a lot of concerns about all of the new development
going in.
We have 150 homes at the end of Poinsettia going in.
We have things across the Sherman and kind of all around us
, and the traffic is already bad.
I also, when I look at the site plan, I see that there's
150 units, 259 required parking spaces to accommodate that
projected.
And there's only 268 that they're going to plan to develop
for parking spaces.
That's completely inadequate.
And then they also have on the site plan, it appears to be
parking on Poinsettia outside of the apartment complex.
And that's really going to ruin our entire community.
The aesthetic, the traffic, it's already going to be very
tight if you're going to have parking outside.
So again, we're completely opposed to that.
And we agree that there's children, there's pets.
There's our sidewalks are large.
There's a lot of people that use Poinsettia as a nice kind
of park atmosphere, and it will absolutely demolish that.
We would much prefer that this be rezoned for something
similar to what we already have, whether they're town homes
, condos, something smaller that would be more suitable.
And when you're talking about a lot of people have spoken
about affordable housing, that's a lot more affordable than
$250,000 median home price.
So we would prefer something like that.
Thank you for coming out in your comments.
Next speaker, Leslie Wilder in opposition to the don't have
another card after that.
Thank you.
I am Leslie Wilder on Teal Drive 3903.
Teal Drive has been there 13 years, 13 and a half years.
Some of these have been much longer.
As it has been explained already, these are single story
homes, all of them the whole neighborhood.
My biggest concern is three story apartments right next to
us.
It's going to totally change the atmosphere of our
neighborhood.
But my bigger concern is the parking on Poinsettia and the
access on Poinsettia, I think, that you had already shared.
So how can we address that?
That they're not walking out of the apartments onto Poins
ettia and parking there?
Because right now, we can't have two cars pass on that
street as it is, because there's parking on both sides.
And so we're going to add a lot more people parking on
those streets.
I think it's going to be a problem.
I think it needs to be considered.
And then I have a question for you.
Can you explain a little bit in more detail what the mixed
income means?
We probably have to call on staff, or if staff can't
address that, possibly the applicant.
We'll call on the applicant to answer that question for you
.
Sure.
So this is exactly what went in front of City Council back
in February.
And so we were applying for these housing tax credits.
And so what we have is we have 150 units, 57 of those units
, so a little over a third are just completely unrestricted.
So those are four.
There's no restrictions other than we do background checks
on everybody that comes in.
You know, one of the things that, you know, I've got -- I
live in a single-family home.
The house right behind me just went up for rent.
There's a lot of speculators all over DFW right now.
And the house behind me just went up for rent to some
single people.
That happened to be very nice.
But if that had been rented to a sex offender, I legally
have no way to go keep that person from moving into that
house.
We can discriminate on those things, and we do discriminate
on those things, which is why we do background checks.
Fair housing allows us to discriminate as long as we do it
equally across the property.
So we do that.
As far as what the mix looks like, low income, HUD defines
low income as people making 30% of the area median income.
The area median income is $73,000 for the Dallas MSA, which
is what we are in right here.
30% of that would be people making in the low 20s.
That is a lot of the HUD housing, the Section 8 housing,
that type of stuff.
That's not what this is.
57 of our units will be completely unrestricted.
The majority of what's left is going to be serving people
making 50 to 60% of the area median income.
So you're talking about people making the 30s and $40,000 a
year.
These are the working class people that work in our
restaurants and our service industry, these type of people.
They've got to be able to afford, you know, they've got to
be able to have income to be able to afford rent from, you
know,
say $700 to $900 for a one bedroom, $9,000 to $1,000 for a
two bedroom, $1,100 to $1,200 for a three bedroom.
So hopefully that answers your question.
Great. Thank you for sharing that information.
Thank you.
I have grown up in Denton my whole life, lived in Narcob at
school in Denton, and my father has been on several of the
boards here in town.
And I will say that I am a little disappointed that this
developer did not hold a public hearing for the
neighborhood.
This is the first public hearing I'm aware of.
And so with that in mind, that concerns me with what he
plans to do in our neighborhood.
So I would like you to consider that.
And I appreciate you listening.
Thank you.
I'm sorry. I got a question for you, Commissioner Beck.
Thank you, Chair.
Just to try and answer, I'm not the authority, but if this
is approved, when they come in, then we look at site plans
and they have to meet specific regulations, very tight ones
.
That will be another opportunity for everybody to come back
and make sure we're not putting trash in there.
And we will.
Good. Good.
We want you to.
Okay.
But just wanted to share that with you.
Thank you.
Of course.
I've not got information before it gets that because it
appears that you have already met on this and we were not
made aware of that.
And I would say, clarification, we have this board has not
met on this.
This is the first time that this item has come before us.
It has gone before City Council, which is a different board
.
I would concur, too, that it would have liked to see the
developer have a community meeting, too.
That's always preferable.
I agree.
But that's their call.
Thank you.
I have a question.
I have one other question for you, Commissioner Sanchez.
Yes, I wanted to ask you, are you concerned with the
changing of the zoning or are you concerned with the.
Good question.
I would say that the zoning is in our favor as, you know,
as has been explained as far as what can go there.
So not necessarily the zoning, more the project, I would
say, would be concerning.
The traffic, my husband works for the city, an engineer.
Probably would love me not saying that, but I can say that
we're both concerned about those things.
Okay.
Thank you.
No other questions.
I'm going to have a whole stack of cards and I'm just going
to go through before I do that.
I want to call this none of the cards marked wish to speak.
So if there's anyone else who would like to speak on this
item, would ask you to come forward at this time and then I
'll just read through the cards and put the comments in the
record.
Okay.
My name is Michael Cohen.
I live at 3918 till and I do not know the legality of what
PNC does versus city council.
But I would like to express and concur with most of what
everybody's saying and it's mainly traffic patterns that we
're concerned because we do have the 150 units or 150 homes
that are going in just to the east.
Zoning has already been approved for what the south west
corner of Sherman and Luke to 88 for shopping center,
housing, multifamily.
And it's just it's it's too much traffic and I know that it
's already zone for big box or retail.
I think the planning and zoning commission, while the
zoning is already there, needs to consider the traffic and
I know the traffic steadiest part of it.
But the second side of this and again, I don't know the
legal side of PNC and whether you can take that in
consideration.
But I think you've heard from enough of the people in the
community, the neighborhood that are against this much
traffic.
And I do think PNC needs to take into consideration what
the neighborhood believes should or should not happen in
that particular neighborhood.
Thank you.
Thank you for your comments.
If you wouldn't mind, would you fill out we've got the cars
.
There should be some probably right outside the door.
So anyone who would like to speak who hasn't filled out a
card, please come on and speak.
And then afterward, if you'll give us a fill out a card for
us, if you'll give your name and address, sir, please.
My name is Scott Hazard.
I live at 1514 Point Celia, which, as my wife said, is
right across the street from where we're going to be.
The fact that we weren't told about this, we really kind of
feel like we were blindsided by this, by the developer,
which kind of affects the way that we hear that developer
when they talk about things that they do,
because we feel like they've been a little bit less than
candid with us on getting this done.
I would like to talk about two things.
I'd like to invite each one of you at 530 to come on the
loop like you're going towards Sherman and turn left on
Sherman Drive from the loop, that left turn right there.
It's absolutely horrible.
And when you get the stop, when you turn left on Sherman
Drive and you don't get hit by somebody trying to turn left
to head out of town on Sherman Drive from the other
direction,
you immediately have to get in that left lane to turn onto
Point Celia.
That is going to be a nightmare right there.
You're going to have cars in the evening backed up all the
way to the loop where those people are making that left
turn.
It's going to be a traffic nightmare.
I think what's happening here is we've got this 150 houses
going in on one side.
We've got Sherman Crossing going in on the other side.
And now these guys want to build these apartments right
here that all drains out onto Point Celia.
I understand the reason that that has to be as far as the
code goes.
But I think you guys are creating a very dangerous
situation at the corner of Point Celia and Sherman Drive.
And I think you're also creating a very dangerous situation
because those, as soon as these apartments are going to be
built,
you guys should know as well as I do that there's going to
be a solid row of cars on the north side of Point Celia
pretty much all the time
because that's where those people are going to park because
they're not building enough parking inside for these guys.
They're creating a parking nightmare.
And what they're doing is pushing the parking nightmare
over to the people who live on Point Celia to let us deal
with all of their overflow parking.
And this can't happen.
It's going to cause lots of problems.
It may cost some lives.
It'll definitely destroy the neighborhood that we've got
where we walk our dogs, where we let our kids ride their
bikes.
And I'm going to ask you all at the very least to table
this and get some more information.
Let's get a detailed traffic analysis.
Let's look at all the traffic patterns as they're going to
be affected by the extra houses or extra units that are
being built essentially on each side of us and then
consider that.
So I just think if you approve this tonight, you're just
doing this willy-nilly and it's going to be a big, big, big
mess.
Thank you for your comments.
Thank you.
I wasn't going to fill out a card, but I'm going to now.
Hi, I'm Connie Lane.
I live two doors down from them.
We have the same view, 1602 Poinsettia.
I'm 510.
One of the questions I had was when Julie had the picture
up here of Sherman Drive being six lanes divided, how are
you going to get across there if it's divided out of Poins
ettia?
Is there going to be a ramp we can go across that divided?
Is there going to be a new bridge or is it just going to be
open where we are all going to get in rags?
Just curious.
I'll call on Julie to try to answer that.
Sure.
So primary arterials are typically designed in the city of
Denton with the three lanes each way with the boulevard in
the middle.
And there would be in some areas they have openings where
people can turn left.
That hasn't been designed at this point.
Right now it is intended for Sherman to stay the way it is.
I'm not aware of any other improvements that would create
that median at this time.
Those are just the standards that Denton has for primary
arterials eventually.
So if that's the standard, that means it will happen.
I wonder if you'll come back to the mic so we can hear on
the live stream.
My concern was if that's a standard, that will happen
eventually.
Having moved from South Denton because of all the traffic,
I lived at the intersection of Teasley and Indian Ridge,
which we had that lovely crossing across there to try to go
to Sam Houston one way or it's not lovely.
So if we're going to add all of these extra people, I'm
really afraid for traffic.
That is my concern.
I appreciate you sharing your concern.
And one thing I'll say is Sherman is a tech stock road.
So that is not a city of Denton road and I won't confirm
that.
So that's a tech stock road.
That's not something the city of Denton has control over at
this time.
The Texas Department of Transportation.
No, I'm with you on that one.
But as far as just having all of these businesses and/or
apartments, if the city doesn't have control over Sherman
Drive.
That's correct.
Then I guess I'm confused as to why everything has to go on
to Poinsettia or Point Cisha as we just had our street sign
fixed.
Thank you for your comments.
Okay.
Hello, how are you doing?
My name is Jorge Espinosa.
I live in 1304 Mountain Boulevard.
It's right there across the street.
My concern is totally opposed to the apartments.
And I just have a question for you guys.
You have us having trouble in the last agenda accommodating
33 houses on 7.14 acres.
And these builders try to build 150 units on 7.5.
Just think about the traffic.
Think about the trouble that they're just going to be
creating on the same area of land.
So that's basically my point, you know, and the question
for you.
Okay.
So just consider what we have.
We have a really nice neighborhood.
And we call home that neighborhood.
Thank you.
Thank you for coming out and your comments.
I've got a bunch of cards I'll go through.
I have a question for staff before we start going through
the cards that I'm going to ask them up and then I will
come back.
I noticed on the comparison on the zoning, would you mind
as I go through the cards, would you look up, it has a
maximum density on the NRMU of 30, but it's blank on the CM
G.
If you could do some research, and I'll call you back after
I get through all these, and give us what is allowed in CMG
for multifamily, density wise, so we have some comparison.
Ma'am, thank you for your patience.
Would you like to come and address our commission?
One of the things that concerns me --
Can you give us your name and address, please?
I'm Betty Marshall, 1906 Point Center Boulevard, Denton,
Texas, 76208.
Thank you, ma'am.
I walk every morning.
And probably about 7 o'clock or so in the morning.
I mean, I also walk at 4 in the morning, but then my second
walk is at about 7, 6 to 7.
And cars that are going east on Loop 288, there is such a
backup that they come up, they make a left, a turn, they go
up to Point Center, and then they pull into Point Center
and go back so they can continue going east.
And it's going to be 150 times worse.
And I don't understand why there isn't some traffic lights.
And is that possible, to get a traffic light at 288 in
Sherman?
And also, we would need one on Point Center Boulevard.
Well, to address your question, I know they're doing a
traffic impact study, and that will determine if there's
traffic lights that are going to be required or not and at
what time they would.
And if the traffic gets to a point, it will then trigger
and there will be a requirement for traffic lights.
And I just don't know without the traffic impact analysis
yet being completed at what threshold that's going to be
required.
But city staff is very good at staying on top of those
things and making sure that it complies with the
development code and the state requirements for traffic and
traffic counts and traffic lights.
That's been going on for a long time now, these cars coming
in and pulling in and then making a U-turn in the middle of
, you know, the first part of Point Center.
Thank you.
Thank you, ma'am, for taking the time to come out and
address the Commission tonight.
I have one other card that was turned in.
Michael Cohen in opposition?
Spoke. Thank you.
Again, this is a public hearing. Anyone else who would like
to come up and speak on this item, please come forward.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I'm getting a little cold too, so excuse me. Lance Van Zand
t, 512 West Hickory here in Denton. I represent the
applicant and I'm here to speak in favor of the development
.
Just wanted to, a couple of questions I'd written down that
I wanted to try to address.
There was a number given out about approximately 400 cars
coming in and out of the development were actually only for
our site plan or only indicating 268 parking spaces,
which is a bit in excess of what's required. And of course
there's a limit to how many the code will allow you to have
, so they don't want you building more parking spaces than
you need.
And we haven't done our traffic impact analysis yet, as you
heard, but based on a similar project in Denton done within
the last couple of years, we just pulled real quickly some
of those numbers.
We estimate that this development would put at the peak
hour of traffic somewhere between 80 and 90 cars per hour
on point setup.
So that's, again, that's an approximate figure. It's not
even based on this particular project, but it's a similar
multifamily project in Denton that's been done within the
last couple of years.
So just to give you a ballpark figure. And we will complete
the traffic impact analysis in the order that these type of
things are done through the development process.
So we're not by any means putting anything off in doing
that.
I've got a couple questions for you. Commissioner Beck.
Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Mr. Van Zandt, for speaking to
that issue.
And then, yeah, that's something we want to take a good,
hard look at when that TIA comes in. Let me ask you
something that a homeowner brought up here, the concern
about the height of some of these apartments.
I believe you said you're going to build one, two and three
story apartment units.
I believe that's correct. I might have to call Mr. Combs up
on that one, but I believe that's correct.
Okay. Is there anything set in concrete now where those are
going to be placed?
In other words, is there a possibility that we can get the
one and two stories closer to point set up and the three
stories further back towards Luke 288? Is that a
possibility?
If you'll give your name just so we can keep track on our
income.
My name is Mark Combs with Palladium. To answer your
question, so the funding that we went for and that we put
in front of City Council, we are locked in in that funding
with our number of buildings and our unit count and our
unit mix. We can't change any of these things.
So we have three story buildings. Now, what we can do, the
site plan that you've seen is a concept site plan. We can
move some things around.
I do think there's some code requirements that we have to
abide by, but we are fine moving things to help mitigate as
much as code will allow.
Okay.
Maybe I can ask Julie a question regarding that.
If I may, Chair.
Sure.
What is, this is where I always get lost on this, but isn't
there a height requirement, the closer you are to the
property line, that it recedes in the height or recedes in
height as it gets close to the property line?
For multifamily, we have a residential proximity slope in
some Chapter 13.
Which requires that if a building exceeds 40 feet in height
, that it is stair-stepped back from that residential set
back.
So anything over 40 feet would have to step back at an
angle of 35 degrees.
So 40 feet, though, could be placed there. That's three
stories, isn't it?
Pretty much. Close. Yeah.
If you're doing eight, nine foot ceilings here.
Okay. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Van Zandt.
Mr. Van Zandt, I had one other question. Commissioner San
chez?
Yes, I had a question.
One of the requests or complaints is that you all haven't
met with the residents.
Before you do the, get into the more site, doing the site
plan and all that, is that, is there a possibility of you
all meeting with them and making them feel more at ease and
explaining what you're actually going to do and what, and
see,
and get their opinion as to what you can do?
Yes, we will find a location in the area where we can hold
a community meeting. Absolutely.
Okay.
And, Mr. Chairman, I'll take just a second. One other good
point that I wanted to address, I believe that Ms. Herman
may have made, that we were looking at a nine-acre site,
looking at some of the current allowed uses, and it wouldn
't be realistic that you put a big box store on nine acres,
which is correct.
Any speaker?
The point had been made that it was not realistic to put a
big box store on a nine or 10-acre site, which is correct.
But in fact, the owner that we're purchasing the property
from has about 20 acres contiguous.
He's dividing a part of that off to sell to us. So the
current owner has plenty of property, plenty of room to
build about any type of retail you'd want to build there.
And just final point, which is not necessarily zoning, but
just more practical concern, is I've been driving to and
from work every day down Sherman Drive for going on 25
years now.
So I've sat there and watched those real estate signs,
weather with age, there on that corner as I've gone back
and forth before there was a football stadium or an auditor
ium or anything else in that area.
So you've said, so the city's essentially surrounded that
area with public infrastructure that taxpayers have been
paying for for years.
And it's essentially a piece of property that for all
practical purposes is not on the tax rolls today.
It's for very little value. And I don't want to fear that
the tax assessor may be in the building.
I don't want to make any commitments, but my client will be
putting probably in excess of $20 million improvements on
the ground.
We'll be paying approximately half a million dollars in
wastewater and water impact fees in addition to permit fees
and the other things we'll be building.
So we are putting some value on the ground that's that an
area that's laid dormant there for many, many years, as you
all know.
So thank you. That's all I have. Thank you for coming out
this evening.
This is a public hearing. Is there anyone else who would
like to speak on this item?
And I will go through the cards if not. If you've already
spoke, if we've already spoken, I'm sorry.
We have one opportunity in four minutes.
My name is Denise Tomor. I live at 1614 Point Settas. So
again, right across the street from me, I just have a
couple of questions just for clarification purposes.
And one of the votes tonight is on a zoning change. Correct
.
And that is a separate vote from the development. Correct.
We have two votes. We have one on the zoning and then one
on the next.
The property in question, the low income usage, is that
specific to the development in question?
My understanding is that is correct that some of that they
went before city council.
That's not specific to the piece of property per se, just
the development in question.
That would be my understanding unless staff would want to
make another clarification.
It's associated with the SUP application, the specific use.
The specific use of the palladium. So if something else was
to go in there, it might not be a low income project. Is
that correct?
I can't speculate. I'd ask legal to weigh in.
So what we're kind of going with this is veering away from
the zoning issue.
Would recommend that this commission focus on the zoning
matter before it.
What tenants occupy that lot shouldn't be considered for
zoning purposes.
Right. Again, as I'm saying, there's two different issues.
We have the zoning issue and then we have the proposed pall
adium.
My question is the low income stipulation that is specific
to the palladium project.
There's no stipulation attached to any zoning request.
Okay.
It's just the proposed project that's going to --
It's just a lot confusing.
That's what the developer is proposing to the developer.
So I'm just trying to get clarification on that.
If I could ask the applicant to come forward and explain, I
know what that distinction is, but if you could explain
what that resolution was about, that might put some light
on it.
Exactly. This is a land use discussion.
So the NRMU is a zoning and the SUP is a land use that
specifically allows this type of development.
That's what this is about. What we went in front of City
Council was our development, who were serving what type of
development is.
That was what City Council --
Can you expand on the purpose for that? It's my
understanding that there are -- it's a competitive process.
One of the requirements for you to be even considered for
this program is that City Council would have to approve --
not approve, but --
Support.
Support it.
And so it was a resolution of support for that type of
project.
It wasn't attached to the zoning request.
It was not attached to the zoning. It was attached to the
funding.
Could you expand maybe the process that you go through in
one of these projects, just to clear up any --
Sure.
So what we do is there's these housing tax credits that are
IRS makes available through the state of Texas.
And we go apply for these tax credits.
It's a competitive process.
And you get -- you're able to apply for these and get this
funding if you get support from City Council.
And there's just certain boxes that you check for this
funding.
It's a point system, isn't it?
That's right. It's a point system.
And so it has to do with things like dispersion of
affordable housing.
You know, right now in Denton, most of the affordable
housing is on the southeast side of Denton.
And so this is a census tract, an area of town where there
is no affordable housing.
So the state of Texas looked at this area and said this is
a high opportunity area because there is no affordable
housing in this area.
And so those are some of the boxes that we're able to check
to be competitive in this process.
And that's what we brought in front of City Council.
Now, when we look for sites, we also look for sites that
are entitled and zoned.
We saw this site with CMG.
It already allowed multifamily.
And so that's why we started pursuing this site and have
been working on it since February with that understanding
that allows multifamily.
And it's only been very recently that this L6, we decided,
you know, with staff's recommendation, hey, let's go
basically remove this L6 because that puts the land use --
I think what the question was is has the City Council voted
on the zoning itself, but you're saying that that was just
a resolution supporting the development.
This is the first time that we're discussing the zoning.
Correct.
Does that answer your question?
Yes.
Okay.
This is a public hearing.
Anyone who would like to speak on this item, please come
forward at this time.
If you've spoken on the item and haven't submitted a card,
please do so before you go.
I'm going to just go through these.
I have a card from Ann Keeling, 1308 Martin, and it is
opposition.
Patrick Keeling, same address, opposition.
Joyce and Lutizer Espinoza, 1304 Martin Boulevard,
opposition.
Martha Cahill, 2106 Poinsettia, opposition.
Lana Knox, 2102 Poinsettia, opposition.
Martha Davis, 3915 Teal, opposition.
Nancy Martin, 2002 Poinsettia, opposition.
Nancy Martin, opposition.
Lana Knox, 2102 Poinsettia, opposition.
I think some of these may be duplicates, 5C and 5D, but I
will read them in anyway.
Martha Hill, 2106 Poinsettia, opposition.
James Wilder, 3903 Teal, opposition.
Betty Powell, 2101 Poinsettia, opposition.
Katherine Warbach, 1918 Poinsettia, opposition.
Dina McCleskey, 1618 Poinsettia, opposition.
Dina Rogers, 2202 Poinsettia, opposition.
Kay Standifer, 1710 Poinsettia, opposition.
Kathy Smith, 3923 Teal, opposition.
And those are all the cards I have.
Again, this is still a public hearing, still open.
If there's anyone else who would like to come before us and
speak on this item, please do so at this time.
I just wanted to go ahead.
I'm sorry, make a clarification because I know there's a
lot of discussion regarding what's permitted under CMG,
what's permitted under NRMU.
Under the existing CMG, just to sort of put it in
perspective, if they were to add commercial on the ground
floor of their development,
it could push it up to six stories.
If they did that, we would not be here tonight. That would
be permitted under the existing zone.
So as long as they did commercial on that ground floor,
again, that would not require a specific use permit.
And so I just wanted to make sure everyone understood that.
So they could go to a height of 65 feet, whether it's CMG
or NRMU.
So I just wanted to make sure that was clear because I know
there's been a lot of back and forth about what's permitted
, what's not permitted.
Thank you.
Again, this is a public hearing.
Anyone else who would like to speak on this item before I
close the public hearing?
Anyone else?
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing and I will
call on Julie on a question answered and then we'll get
started on discussion.
Did you have, I didn't mean to put you on the spot, but I
did.
There is no maximum density for multifamily in CMG.
So any density is permitted as long as they fit within the
bulk and dimensional requirements in the zoning district.
Is there a size requirement?
For?
The unit?
Yes.
Minimum 500 square feet.
Okay.
So with that, they're unlimited, essentially, unless they
're 500 square foot units, there's not a limit of the number
of units.
As long as they could park it and it stayed within that
building envelope.
Okay. So again, this commission's faced with a choice of
what's permitted, which is much higher density, much higher
use by right,
versus taking an opportunity that I know is not popular by
the neighborhood and essentially down zoning that property
with putting limitations as far as density
and some of the other requirements that are part of an NRMU
versus a CMG and what else could go into CMG.
And that's really the choices that this commission has
legally by right for this property based on the current
zoning.
Yes, sir.
Okay.
Thanks for the clarification.
Hang on, Julie.
Commissioner Beck.
Thank you, Chair.
Did have a question for staff since you're here.
One of the, again, one of the residents is here suggested
or hoped for that maybe we could build townhouses on the
other side of that.
My question to you is, does either NRMU or CMG allow town
home duplexes, anything like that?
NRMU permits townhomes with a limitation that they cannot
exceed 12 dwelling units per acre.
And CM, I'm sorry, CMG does not permit townhomes, single
family homes or duplexes.
It permits dwellings above businesses, live and live work
units and multifamily with the L6 and the L4.
Okay.
So by leaving the zone status as is, we can't build townh
omes over there.
No, sir.
So we'd have to change it to NRMU for any prospect of doing
that, correct?
Yes, sir.
Okay.
Thank you.
Sure.
Okay.
Commissioner Elms.
Thank you, Chair.
I am curious if we have a percentage after the cards you
read.
If we have a what?
If we have a percentage of opposition at this point.
There were an awful lot of cards read on points set at this
point.
So is anyone keeping track of that?
Well, the percentage is based upon the land area and not
necessarily the number of homeowners.
I don't have that information with us.
That is something that we will calculate prior to city
council.
And if it does exceed that 20%, then it would require a
supermajority vote.
We've closed the public hearing.
So I'm going to open the floor here now.
Appreciate you providing that information for us to have
further discussion.
Commissioner Beck.
You know, just like to make some comments in light of
everything that's been said here.
Maybe I'll make a motion later.
I'm not sure yet right now.
But what I'm seeing in the hearing and what I'm empathizing
with is a group of people who have lived in an area that is
, in their opinion,
experiencing some problems with traffic now and they're
concerned about it increasing and getting worse,
that whatever happens there and the feeling seems to be the
departments are going to be more threatening than
commercial property,
that lifestyle over there is going to be disrupted.
It's going to change.
And the thing is the dilemma we're facing here is whether
it be CMG or NRMU,
there is going to be some development there in that area is
going to change and thus the lifestyle is.
I think we've tried to make a point here.
At least I'm seeing that NRMU is the least offensive zoning
as opposed to CMG, which is there now.
And by supporting a zone change request to NRMU ameliorates
a lot of problems that you'd be facing if we remained CMG.
That's a likely area for growth.
I think somebody from the city commented earlier today that
North Denton is finally starting to take off on growth.
Everything's happened south.
So it's all coming this way now.
So come hell or high water, we're going to see some changes
here and some of them we're not going to like.
And I agree.
I've seen a lot of it too.
Where I live up there, it was an empty lot where there's a
Pentecostal church now.
Before that was just all empty in there.
And they wanted to build some apartments in there and
enough people went over and protested and they backed down
on that.
We've got a housing development in there.
So I understand the fear and the concern of apartments, of
any kind of development coming in and changing what you
have.
But the fact of the matter is we can't rezone it.
Pretty sure that just isn't something that's going to
happen automatically.
That has to happen at the city council level if I can get a
nod or a shake.
Yeah.
So we won't go into that.
So we're stuck with looking at CMG and NRMU.
And it seems to me that our choices are if we're going to
help the area residents that we want to do the least
restrictive.
And that would be NRMU.
So I'll leave it there, see if there's any more comment and
maybe I'll come back with a motion.
Commissioner Sanchez.
Yeah, one of the -- I think there's two questions here.
I think most of you are opposed to having the apartment
complex across the street.
But I think one of the things that you weren't aware of is
that what's allowed under the different categories under NR
MU and CMG.
And I think that now that that information has come down,
has been exposed,
you're beginning to understand that it's not just -- it's
just not the apartment complex.
There's two issues here.
And if you don't -- and that's why one of the questions I
ask is are they willing to meet with you all in the future
to try to mitigate some of your concerns?
And maybe it's just my opinion.
I think most of you would be willing to have this changed
to NRMU rather than have the other category.
Now it's a matter of being able to -- how can you mitigate
your concerns?
And I believe that the developers said yes, they're willing
to meet with you.
And it's something that you all can pursue now is trying to
get some mitigation there that will make you feel at ease.
As far as traffic, I think here in Denton, traffic is bad
all over the city.
I mean, I remember 20 years ago you could go from one side
of town to the other in no time.
Now it takes you forever.
It's just a matter of the beast is growing.
And sometimes we just have to put up with it and hope that
the city continues to develop the roads as the population
gets larger.
But our concern here is basically the zoning.
And I think if you really come down to it, I really believe
-- this is my belief -- that you would rather -- and maybe
I'm wrong,
but I'm just throwing this out -- I do believe the NRMU
serves you better than the other zoning.
Commissioner Ellis.
Thank you, Chair.
Yeah, I'm just going to piggyback on that a little bit.
The NRMU downzoning from what it is currently really does
offer you some protections.
And it will give you a voice, especially if they've agreed
to meet with you in their site plan as they move forward
with the development.
As well, someone had brought up earlier what the PNZ is.
And PNZ is a recommending body to city council.
So you will have another public hearing at city council.
If you do want to speak again, they will vote on the issue
next.
We vote on it as a recommending body to them.
That's what our role is in this.
But if you do want to speak again and voice the concerns
that you did with us, you will have the opportunity when
city council hears this.
It will be noticed, just like it was.
And you'll get that letter again and the date of when that
meeting is.
Well, I'm going to -- before I recognize Larry, I'm going
to be voting in support of this.
And the reason being is for a lot of the reasons I've
already tried to share with you all this evening is the
zoning is in place now for multifamily.
And it doesn't have a limitation on it.
It's the number of units.
So the NRMU does put some limitations on it.
Now, whether they go forward with an apartment community or
not, once it is rezoned, it is rezoned permanently unless
someone comes back and makes another application to change
the zoning.
So if these gentlemen want to move forward and hopefully
they will determine this project is successful and want to
move forward, that's what will be built there.
If for some reason they do not, the zoning that's approved
tonight and then moves on to city council for consideration
will stay in place.
So that property will be downzoned from CMG to NRMU.
And all the things that can go there currently by right,
doesn't have to come before this commission, that can go
down and pull a building permit and get started on it, will
change and it will be brought back to an NRMU.
And if I was in your neighborhood and I was faced with the
option myself personally of having CMG right across the
street from me or NRMU, I would take the NRMU personally.
And because of that and putting myself in your position is
why I'm going to vote in support of this because I do feel
like it is a down zone and it's the best case scenario for
what could go there for your neighborhood.
I know none of you are happy about it.
I understand it.
That property has been there vacant for many years.
I remember as a high school kid cutting hay and hauling hay
on that corner over there and that's been in the 80s.
That's about as far as I'll go on that.
But anyway, it's been a long time and I know you all have
had a great neighborhood over there and it's very difficult
for all of us who have grown up in Denton and been here a
long time and are accustomed to it's a big open field or it
's a field covered with trees,
those things are going to change and that's just
unfortunately a part of the process that we're all going to
experience as long time residents of Denton that things are
going to be built out, property owners are going to develop
those properties that have been around and we may not like
it.
But it is going to happen and so there are some inconven
iences from that but then there are some pluses as the
revenues and the things that come to our city then provide
the money to build the infrastructure, to improve the roads
, traffic signals and all the things that come along with
that that sometimes we don't consider on this side of it
and then we look at it on the other.
For example, for all of us, Razor Ranch and what was over
there on University Drive before they did all of those
improvements was a nightmare.
And thank goodness those guys came in and they widened all
of that and redid all of that and solved a lot of problems
over there and that's been a big change over there on that
side of town that a lot of us go over there and use those
facilities.
And unfortunately for you all some of those things are
going to happen in your neighborhood and whether it's this
project or another one, the corner there at Loop 288 and
Sherman Drive will have some high intense use there because
it is too much of a gateway into our city for a lot of
people that live to the north of us.
So because of all of those things I'm going to support it.
I know you all aren't happy about it but I do think it's
the best scenario for your neighborhood to be able to take
the opportunity to down zone it from CMG to NRMU.
With that I'll recognize Commissioner Beck for a motion.
For a motion just let me say something that's probably not
much comfort but it's a positive in the right direction
concerning traffic. Some of you may know eventually Point
Setia will eventually connect to Loop 288 but only when a
frontage road is built in there.
So that but when that's done that'll alleviate some of the
traffic going out that way instead of having to come back
down Point Setia and hit Sherman.
And I believe in the developer can correct me if I'm wrong
that once that developments done there's going to be an
outlet on the north side.
As that area develops that will allow traffic going out
that way. Is that correct? Okay, so that's an area that
will impact traffic in a positive manner. So with that
being said, and it's hard to sit there and vote for
something that I understand you're all opposed to.
But we've got two choices we do nothing and leave it at CMG
, or we put the less restrictive NRMU in there so I motion
that my move that we approve the zone change from CMG to NR
MU.
Okay.
We have a first Commissioner Sanchez. I second it. Okay. We
have a first and a second for approval.
Any further discussion.
Well thank all of you all for coming out. I hope we've
tried to answer all of your questions and provided as much
information as we can on this item.
And with that I will call for a vote on the board.
That motion is going to carry four to zero.
We will now go on to the second part of this item for the
consideration of an SUV for those of you who would like to
leave, please go to go on and we'll let the room clear and
if you'd like to stay you're welcome to stay for this, this
part of our agenda.
Thank you.
We're going to hear the second part of this for SUP so you
are more than welcome to stay and come back up and address
us on the SUP. So please stay if you'd like.
I'm going to I think the room's just about cleared and I'm
going to open public hearing and then we'll open it up on
the floor here. So this time I'm going to open the public
hearing for item D, S17-0010 and I will call on Julie White
mostly for introduction.
I know we've already done the presentation with just a
clarification of what's on the next on the agenda.
All right. So the request is for specific use permit for a
multifamily development staff does recommend approval of
the request and I believe there was a question regarding
notification.
We do send out a certified letter for property owners
within 200 feet of the request and residents within 500
feet. So I can show a map. The 200 feet captures fewer
people than one would imagine. It just captured some
residents essentially on point set up and then the 500 feet
captured some more residents into the neighborhood.
This is a public hearing. I know we have been through this
item but anyone who would like to speak on this item please
come forward. It will be the same process. Give us your
name and address and fill out another card for us or you
may have already asked if we need to fill out another card
or.
Hi, my name is Jean Marie Goff and I live on Manton Boule
vard and on this issue I just wanted to bring up again from
listening to everything that with these 150 units Mr.
Combs mentioned that 93 of the units will be open for the
lower income and the other 57 will be no restrictions. So
over half of the occupants are going to be on the lower
income side and I just like to say I have an opposition to
that.
Okay. I know that something is going in there. I have known
that for 16 years since I have been there. I know something
is going to go there. I agree I think the NRMU I already
said is a benefit to our neighborhood.
And I do have a problem with these apartments and with them
being three stories and I want to go on record as stating
that again that three stories as opposed to our single
family homes is a bit much.
And I really would like to ask the developer, the builder
to reconsider.
I do have a bone to pick with Bel Air Development. They
currently own the corner, the northeast corner of Poinsett
ia and Sherman, and they have never once in 16 years come
out and done any maintenance on that corner.
The neighborhood takes care of that. We have no homeowners
association. I've tried to call Bel Air Development and I
've never gotten any farther than a secretary.
I've left my name and I've left my number. So they already
have left a bad taste in my mouth that they don't seem to
be good stewards of our neighborhood.
So I hope that they will meet with us when they do decide
whatever it is they're going to build. I appreciate it.
Thank you.
Thanks again for coming out tonight.
Thank you. Kamil Hazard again, 1514 Poinsettia. I
appreciate you guys giving us another opportunity to speak
on this.
I would like to ask that we could possibly table this for a
vote until after the developer gives us an opportunity to
meet with them and discuss our significant concerns.
I'd hate for this to be approved and then they blow us off
or don't take our concerns into account when they're
obviously substantial. A three story apartment complex
would completely change the look and feel of our community.
And as well as the traffic and parking problems that we're
anticipating. So I would ask you guys to if you can just
table it until we can meet with them, discuss it.
And then if we do have concerns going forward, you know, we
have another opportunity to speak. Thank you. Again, I
think Commissioner Ellis said we're just going to be a
recommending body to City Council.
So this will go on and City Council will have a final say
on both of these matters that are coming before us. Okay.
But would it be possible for you guys to at least tell them
that we have concerns and make the same suggestions?
They watch these meetings and they'll have minutes and they
're probably well aware of exactly what we're doing tonight.
But you certainly are welcome to come back out for City
Council. I would encourage you to do so. Thank you.
I have a question for Julie. Commissioner Sanchez.
Julie, based on what you just said, can they if they say
this is just a hypothetical, say the developer doesn't meet
with them and doesn't take can they meet with you?
Because I know when they're when they're doing the site
plan, you take all kinds of stuff into consideration.
So with that, can they meet with you and or with the city
and bring in their concerns?
This is just I'm just throwing this out as a hypothetical.
Say they just blow them off and say, no, we don't want to
listen to you.
We don't have any required meetings as part of the
development process, but it is typical for applicants to
meet with city staff during the development process to to
ensure compliance with the development code, both in terms
of site design and infrastructure and all of the items
associated with.
But I'm talking about the the the community with the
community.
Yeah. Yeah. Say you say what we've been talking about is
they hopefully don't meet with the community will meet with
with the developer.
And I'm just throwing this as a hypothetical. So they feel
what she just said.
Say they blow them off and they decide, hey, we're not
going to we don't really want to meet with you and do what
we want.
Can they then come to you and meet with you all and make
recommendations?
I was going to say private. The most immediate impact or
voice that they'll have will be at the next subsequent city
commission meeting, which is the city council meeting for
this item is next Tuesday.
So I would well I would invite and welcome all of the
community come to that, but they can always, of course,
call me as well. Yeah. Call or email me as well. Yes, sir.
So that'll be Tuesday, December the fifth. Yes, sir. At the
meeting. And it's the same room. Six thirty. Yes, sir.
Thank you for the clarification, Julie.
Commissioner Sanchez, did you have anything else? No, that
was it.
I'm sorry for raising my hand earlier. I'm learning.
Appreciate you come to learn this guy over here pokes me.
That's why you have legal right? That's right.
I just I wanted to ask, have you, I guess, ask the
developer because this is the second or third time I heard
him mention the number of parking places compared to the
number of units,
which is not adequate.
Where does he expect the people to park? They actually
provided more parking than is required by code.
And there is a maximum that they can put in. So they are
above what's required. Well, but the requirement is
inadequate.
You know, that's one of my concerns. OK.
You mentioned that that that you all don't have any control
of the traffic there on Sherman on the text roadway on the
text roadway.
There's at least I do the same thing.
Palata Manon. OK. Twice a day every day.
There's at least one accident a week there. Minimum.
I think if you went down to the fire department and asked
one of those guys, they'll probably tell you there's more.
I see at least one a week. OK.
So if you don't have any control over the traffic, but you
're doing a traffic study, OK, you submit that to text out
and they go, we'll do it whenever.
And in the meantime, the building continues.
They have a set of criteria and maybe city staff can
address that better than I.
But there is a set of criteria that they will have to meet
both city and state.
All right, because I guess that's my question. We're
already having one accident a week. We already have people
coming off, you know, like I said about the football Friday
, but even not football Friday.
Making those turnarounds. I've almost hit people a couple
of times coming home from work already that are making a
loop and on points that are there instead of, you know,
making their left hand turn like they're supposed to.
They've got to be aware that they're already having that
many accidents, but nothing's happening already.
OK, I agree with the tabling. I know you said you didn't
have any control over that.
So is that something that the city council meeting would do
?
Well, this will go on to city council and that meeting will
be next Tuesday, December the fifth. Same room, 630.
OK, so both of the both of these items will move from this
body to city council and that they will have the final say.
I'm sorry. I know my my buzzer went, but you've got me
confused. So you you have to either approve or not approve.
You do not have the option to table. Is that what I'm
understanding?
Well, that would be an option if that's something that the
commission wanted to entertain tonight.
But at the end of the day, this project will move to city
council and city council will then either approve or deny
both of these separate items.
We are just going to be recommending by so if we approve it
tonight, it's not final.
It just moves to city council and city council will have
the final approval or denial on both the rezoning and the S
.U.P.
And that's currently scheduled for next Tuesday. Same room,
630.
But you had the option of tabling it until the other
information comes in.
Well, like the traffic thing and all that kind of stuff.
Well, that would be an option for us to consider if that's
something the commission would like to do.
I was just trying to get it all. It's a complicated process
. I understand. Thank you all very much.
Thanks for coming out tonight. This is a public hearing.
Anyone who would like to speak, please come forward at this
time.
Great. As all of this discussion has gone on, I've realized
that you divided it up.
You are now going to vote on the special use permit, which
does removes the need to have commercial on the first level
of this building.
Correct. That's correct. So that is what you're going to do
.
The thing that I would like to go on to record being heard
to say is that if we are going to continue to bring in HUD
housing,
continue to focus on affordable housing for our citizens in
the city of Denton, we have to remember that with housing
comes other things like transportation.
There is currently no bus lines to any of the areas that we
've talked about tonight.
So we need as a city to be aware. I know it's not planning,
but this is going to the city council.
We also need to be aware of the ability for people to find
adequate health care providers in the city,
especially the HUD housing people who are going to spend
most of their money on the housing.
We also need to look at where these children are going to
go to school that are going to be in these apartments.
How are they going to get there? Are there any sidewalks to
get anywhere near these schools that are going to be there?
I know that the new area that's going up to the east of
this one is going to have a lot of children in it.
And I don't believe that the elementary school is prepared
to deal with that.
So as Denton continues to grow, it's not just housing. It's
not just buildings.
We are looking at neighborhoods. We are looking at families
and we are looking at generations and that we need to be as
a city responsible and aware of all of those things,
not just where you have somebody. Thank you.
Thanks for coming out in your comments.
Again, this is a public hearing. Anyone else who would like
to speak on this item, please come forward.
My name is Scott Hazard. I live at 1514 Point City Boule
vard.
I appreciate you guys explaining your unanimous yes votes
to us on this, although the opposition to it was unanimous.
I haven't seen one person here tonight in support of this
who doesn't have a financial gain in it.
I appreciate you guys explaining your yes votes to us.
But if they put an Arby's and a Burger King and a Whatab
urger and a Pep Boys and a used car lot over there,
they're not all going to be always parked on the north side
of Poinsettia Boulevard.
It's not going to generate that constant traffic flow at
the corner of Poinsettia and Sherman Drive that this is
going to generate.
It's not going to exacerbate, rather, an already increased
traffic flow because of the neighborhoods going in at each
end.
You say the builder will meet with us and talk with us.
That's great.
What I'm finding out here is I could be up here standing on
my head screaming, and you guys hear me,
but apparently nobody's listening because you guys voted
unanimously to approve this when we showed up in a moderate
show of force against it.
So now you're going to approve the apartment complex in
general, even though not one person in this room has spoken
out for it,
with the exception of the people who stand to gain by
building it.
As to the argument that when we moved there, we knew that
that was an empty field and all of this kind of stuff,
and it's not going to stay an empty field forever, that's a
little bit of an insult to my intelligence.
We know that this is not going to be an empty field forever
. We know that things are going to be built there.
But what we also know is that if you build apartments there
and allow the people to park on the north side of the
street, they will.
And you're also going to open points that are up to be a
through street then, probably going to have a, what, 30, 35
mile an hour speed limit,
with cars parked on both sides of the street, and when the
speed limit's 30 or 35, people drive what, 45, 50 generally
?
I mean, let's be honest. So you're creating a very, very,
very dangerous situation. It's easy for you guys.
I don't recognize any of y'all. I don't think any of y'all
live in our neighborhood. It's easy for you to sit there
and tell us what's best for us.
But that's a little bit condescending of you to sit there
and tell us what's best for us.
When we have thought this out, we have discussed this among
ourselves. We know what's best for us.
We don't think that we're not trying to save the field. It
's not about saving that field. We know something's going to
be there.
But an apartment complex is the wrong thing to be there. It
's the wrong thing to be there for the traffic aspect at the
corner of Sherman and Poinsettia.
The backup that's going to create at come home hour at 530
to turn left on the Poinsettia right there is going to be a
nightmare, and people are going to get hurt.
And y'all go ahead and vote.
I'm going to respond. I'd like to respond to your comment.
I'm not trying to sit up here and tell you what's best for
you in your neighborhood.
What I do want to share with you is that by right, they can
build apartments on their property right now and not even
come before this commission.
I completely understand that.
And also they could build a tiny story, whatever, that we
talked about earlier.
But it's not feasible to do that. They could build a Tesla
plant right there, too. But that's not feasible either.
So we have to look at what's feasible to go there and what
you guys are trying to let these guys build there.
Well, what we're trying to do is we're looking at the
realities of what's there.
And what the realities is what's there is that they can
build multifamily there.
They can do it 65 feet tall instead of three stories tall.
There are people in your neighborhood they're concerned
about height.
And so this commission is faced with a difficult task.
Do we pass on the opportunity to put some limitations on it
or let it stay as it is?
And it can be 65 feet tall and they can build apartments
there.
And instead of having 30 per acre, it's unlimited.
And there are 500.
So I hope you would look at the realities of the choice
that we have.
And it's not the one that you would like.
But the reality is they can by right build there and do
apartments there and do them much taller than what's being
proposed.
And so that's the choice that we have to look at this
evening.
And so I appreciate you coming out and sharing your
thoughts.
I hope that we have tried to share back with you the
realities of what we have on that piece of property with
the current zoning and the current uses that are out there.
With all due respect, sir, this is a giant company that's
got apartments all over the world.
If they thought it was feasible to put 65 foot buildings
right there, we'd be here talking about 65 foot buildings.
Okay.
This company is not going to worry about the money that it
would cost to put 65 foot buildings there.
Why are they not doing that?
Because it's not feasible.
Just like all of these other things that you guys have been
talking about trying to scare us, well, you could have this
going there.
You could have this going there.
Those aren't feasible.
This is a matter of what is feasible and usable and common
sense for that piece of land with the amount of traffic
that goes by it.
And believe me, this developer is trying to squeeze every
penny out of it that they can.
If they thought it was to their advantage to build five-
story apartment buildings, they would.
The next guy might, if they don't.
Well, your time is up.
I appreciate you sharing your comments.
I had a question for him.
Sorry, sir, there's one more commissioner who would like a
commissioner that would like to ask a question.
Commissioner Sanchez.
Yes, that first vote we took was to change the zoning.
Were you opposed to that?
Because most of the people that I think came across, they
're not concerned with -- they're with us on the zoning.
Are you -- again, are you opposed to changing the zoning?
Or did you want to say the way it was?
I see the zoning as a step towards the -- what is this, an
SUP?
I see one kind of feeding the other.
So I'm opposed to the zoning.
I'm not scared of somebody moving in there and building an
80-story high-rise because I know that the laws of
economics prevent somebody from building an 80-story high-
rise right there.
I would be willing to have whatever is economically
feasible that you guys in the city thinks will go there
with the exception of apartments,
with the exception of apartments where people are going to
be parking their car in one solid road on the north side of
Poinsettia Boulevard.
And you know they will.
I would like for you guys to all think about what it would
be like to walk out in the morning to get your newspaper
and see a bumper-to-bumper row of cars parked across the
street from you.
Maybe you see that.
My guess is you don't.
I would like for you to think about that kid that darts out
between those two cars when the street is so narrow because
there's cars parked on each side of the street.
I drive through neighborhoods like that all the time.
I drive like 15 miles an hour through these neighborhoods.
And the speed limit is 30.
I'm scared to death that some kid's going to jump out
between two cars and I'm going to hit him.
So I drive ridiculously slow so that doesn't happen.
To answer your question, sir, yes, I was opposed to that
because I believe that the laws of economics and common
sense are on my side as to what can be put there.
And I don't believe that the things that you guys have told
us, well, this could be there and this could be there.
Yeah, it could be there.
But if it really was economically feasible to be there, it
would be there.
And it's not.
These apartments are going to create traffic issues on Po
insettia Drive like Poinsettia Drive has never seen before.
Poinsettia Boulevard is actually a boulevard.
That intersection at Sherman and Poinsettia, and I realize
it, it's a dot highway.
I mean, there's nothing that you can do about that, but
nothing that the city can do about that.
Do we really think that we really want to push this off on
the state of Texas and hope that they are timely in their
decisions to do what's necessary?
How many people are going to have to die at that
intersection?
Sir, I'm going to interrupt you.
We've let you go way past four minutes.
We've had a couple of questions.
I appreciate you coming out.
Thank you so much.
Thank you for sharing your point of view.
I'll be quick.
Becky Garcia, 1301 Matten Boulevard.
I just have to -- I know one of the things that people do
when this happens, and then I forget where I come from, is
you're going to have a strip mall over here.
You're going to have Luby's right here.
You're going to have Chico's Tacos over here.
You're going to have the -- what is it?
What do we have?
Like the Piggly Wiggly.
That's where I grew up.
I come from El Paso.
And if you put my house in Denton, it would right be in the
corner of University and -- what's the name of that street?
The big one where Kroger is.
Carol.
Carol Boulevard.
That's where I grew up with.
And you know what?
I grew up in the big one where the big one was -- except
for the fire station, because that was across also there.
At 9 o'clock, it got quiet.
Now, El Paso is huge.
So if the big boxes come in at 9, 10 o'clock, everybody's
going to go home and it'll be quiet at night.
That's not going to happen with the apartment.
I know you just said something with the Bel Air.
I know we're beating up on you guys, but one of the things
is, is they didn't take care of a corner.
Are they going to take care of the apartment?
You know, my friend out there, it's 110, and she's mowing
and edging, and people are, you know, waving at her and
clapping, and we pick up our own trash.
Are they going to be responsible enough to keep that area
nice?
I don't know.
That's another reason.
Them not talking to us, and we hear this other people, they
came in and they talked.
It leaves a bad taste in my heart.
So I give you a challenge.
Talk to us.
Make us feel good.
Because I won't come after you.
You don't want her to come after me.
Trust me.
We're teachers.
We will find you.
If you're in Italy, it'll be fun, but we will find you.
So, and you guys, thank you very much.
Thanks for coming out this evening.
This is a public hearing.
Anyone who would like to speak on this item, please come
forward at this time.
Leslie Wilder, 3903 Teal Drive.
Again, thank you for hearing us.
I can remember, as you reminisced in the '80s, I can
remember when Carroll Boulevard was put in.
I used to have to go through the square to get into town
coming in.
I do know when my dad served on the planning and zoning, he
talked about the most difficult thing he ever did was that
board.
And he said he didn't do it long because it was that
difficult.
He did the utilities board and other things.
I really respect what he did and I respect what you do.
And I just appreciate that you've listened to all our
concerns and tried to understand and empathize, as you said
earlier, with us.
My brother-in-law's Jack Bell, I'm sure you're very much
familiar with his name as a developer here locally.
That would be a whole different ballpark if we were talking
about a local developer on this project.
I think that's a big concern for us here.
I liked the development we talked about earlier, the homes
going in off Audra.
They were very considerate of what was going on around them
.
I'd like to see that here.
And that's what I'm going on the record and I will go to
the city council as well.
But I just want you to understand that this does not seem
like a local development like the old days of our planning
and zoning,
who really, really cared about how Denton changed and grew.
And I know they resisted growth to the nth degree, too far
at times.
But there was a reason for that.
And so I want to call your minds to that and remember that.
Thank you.
Thank you for coming out and sharing your comments.
This is a public hearing.
Anyone who would like to speak on this item, please come
forward at this time.
Anyone else?
Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing and we'll open
the floor for discussion or a motion.
Commissioner Beck.
Thank you, Chair.
I'd like to make a motion, but I'm probably going to need a
little help from legal here on this.
Can I approve this subject to the condition that the
developer has to have a community meeting prior to them
submitting site plans to the PNC?
Is that legit?
Can I do that?
I'm going to say no, because ultimately the decision goes
to City Council.
Right.
So you're proving this would push over City Council and
City Council would.
Okay.
In that condition, that consideration, I'm going to move
that we postpone this consideration until there is a
community meeting with the developer and the community.
If there's a motion to postpone, there would need to be a
date certain.
Date certain.
What's our next PNC?
December 13th.
Because I know they want to get moving.
I have a motion on the floor to postpone.
If it don't have a second, it will die for lack of a second
.
The motion will die for lack of a second.
The chair will obtain a new motion or further discussion.
Commissioner Sanchez.
I make a motion to pass S170010.
Okay.
I have a motion for approval.
Is there a second?
Commissioner Ellis.
Yeah, I will go ahead and second.
Okay.
We have a first and a second for approval.
Further discussion?
Commissioner Ellis.
Thank you.
My discussion is probably to ask staff.
A lot of concern with this parking issue on Point Seta.
Is that something that can be brought up as we do the
traffic impact study so that perhaps that is not allowed?
I mean, how can that be addressed?
Can it be addressed?
Interestingly, the on-street parking is more of a city
requirement because of the type of right of way.
We will make that -- since that isn't something that the
applicant is proposing,
we will make sure that that gets into the record at City
Council.
And whether we look at that as part of the platting to
modify that,
that can be certainly something that's discussed and quite
honestly would come back to this commission for final plat.
Continue.
Commissioner Ellis.
Thank you, chair.
Probably should have brought this up earlier.
There were some conditions that staff put on the approval
of this SUP.
So I guess we should perhaps ask Commissioner Sanchez, is
that part of your motion?
I assume that they just automatically would be incorporated
.
Do we want to get a clarification of exactly what those
conditions are into the record?
Certainly.
So the first condition would be a full site plan.
Submittal would be required to ensure compliance with the
Denton Development Code.
And the second would be to maintain the muted earth tone
colors for the exterior building materials.
Okay.
Chair.
Commissioner Beck.
Thank you.
I can't push the button here because we're ready to vote.
I'm going to go ahead and vote with approval on this too
reluctantly.
But knowing that this has to go to City Council first,
again, this is just a recommendation.
So I want to thank everybody for coming out.
Sorry, this isn't the news you wanted to hear.
But I do encourage you to go to City Council.
Your grievance is there.
And we'll see what comes out there.
So thank you.
Okay.
Any further discussion?
Okay.
We have a motion on the floor for approval and a second
with the two conditions in our backup clarified by staff.
And we'll call for a vote on the board.
Motion is going to carry four to zero.
That will take us to our public hearing item E.
We'll open the public hearing for FR 17-0020.
And the chair would ask for a motion to continue that item
to December the 13th.
Commissioner Ellis.
Thank you, Chair.
I move to postpone to a date certain of December 13th, item
FR 17-20.
Okay.
Commissioner Beck.
Second.
Okay.
We have a first and a second to leave this item open and
continue to date certain December 13th.
Any further discussion?
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.
That motion is going to carry four to zero.
That will take us to our final item this evening on our
project matrix.
Any items to bring before the commission for future
meetings?
Commissioner Ellis.
You're pointing and I'm going, I don't see you.
That's all right.
You have a floor.
Thank you.
So just want to go on the record by saying I love the fact
that we had a large sign on Audra.
That's the first time I've seen the big sign.
It did, however, not have a date on it.
So I didn't know if it's supposed to have a date on it.
But I thought I'd bring that up.
But the size of the sign was finally one you could actually
read from the road.
So we're moving in the right direction.
Awesome.
Commissioner Sanchez, did you have something?
Yeah, I just wanted to mention that I had talked a little
bit about that comparison chart.
And on the letter that you sent to the, what do you call it
, the people in the area,
do you put, you said it's in a website that they can pull
it up or something?
And do you put that in their letter?
Or do we decide that you're going to start putting that in
their letter, right?
Okay, okay.
Any other items?
Commissioner Beck?
You have an item?
Nothing?
Okay, with that at 930, I will close our meeting this
evening.
Thank you everyone for coming out.