WEBVTT

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This meeting has been duly posted and we do have a quorum

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present and I will call

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us to order at 5 o 5 and I'll begin with starting with

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clarification of agenda

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items so we will go on to the consent agenda and I will

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call well I guess does

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anybody have questions on the consent agenda?

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Do you want to go through each item or just if we have

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questions?

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Yeah we do.

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You do? Okay well we'll just go through each item then and

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we'll address any questions and Haley will you come forward

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and give us an

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update on the consent agenda item A and I think you also

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have B, C, D.

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Yes sir.

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So we got pretty good odds.

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Commissioner Beck did you have a question on a particular

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item?

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Not on this one, on B I think it is.

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FP 17003329.

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Okay.

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Would you like me to go over item A?

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Well I'll just go over we've got a lot of people here today

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obviously so a lot of interest in what's on our agenda and

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we'll just do your standard quick presentation for work

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session and we'll see what questions come up.

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Okay so this is a preliminary plat for the Titus South

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development. It's located at the corner of Mosk Branch Road

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and Jim Crystal.

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This plat is for eight commercial lots and one common area

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lot that would be for drainage.

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Three of the lots have frontage here, I'm sorry four of the

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lots have frontage on Mosk Branch.

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The remaining lots are accessed by a common public access

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easement that you can see kind of winding through here.

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I can answer any questions about the plat if you have them.

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Okay.

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Not on that one.

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Okay.

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Thank you.

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We'll go on to B then.

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Okay.

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Item B is a final plat of four lots within the Razor Ranch

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South development.

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It's lot 17, I'm sorry five lots, lot 17 through 20 of

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block A and then lot one of block B which is a detention

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pond and drainage area.

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These lots are located along Panhandle Drive and Heritage

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Trail and I can answer any questions if you have them.

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Commissioner Beck.

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Thank you Chair.

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Julie for our clarification here.

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Could you focus in on lot 20 block A where it shows if you

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've got a bigger version of it.

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On my plans, it shows what appears to be two different

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outlines of storm drainage in close proximity to one

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another one being 105 square feet, the other 42 square feet

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.

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Am I reading this right?

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There's two different ones on this one lot close together.

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Yes, sir.

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Okay.

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So now is that supposed to serve the entire drainage for

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this entire plant for all four lots or?

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I'm going to look to Jim and see if he can speak more to

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the specifics of what those two drains would be serving.

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I'm trying to add the two storm drains here.

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I believe that those two storm drainage easements are

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basically, I would assume that they are being dedicated for

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future tie-ins of a private storm sewer system in that lot,

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the southern part of that lot, into the new public storm

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sewer that is going down that street, that north-south road

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.

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Okay.

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So I would assume that that's, I mean, we sort of have this

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throughout Razor Ranch water and sewer and storm.

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And I suspect that it's no different here that that's the

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intent.

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Well, my concern was they were so close together, so I'm

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assuming that the way everything designed here that water

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is going to flow in that general direction.

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Yes, sir.

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Okay.

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So I'm not sure that we can set up for that.

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And some of these are sort of leave-outs for the future.

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I don't know if that part of that lot, I don't think it's

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been designed out yet, but that's sort of a judicious

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location that the designer has left for an anticipated

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future connection to the storm sewer system.

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So this is subject to change if necessary?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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If absolutely necessary.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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And then the other thing I got, Ms. Mayor's Hayes, is the

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property line seemed to encompass Heritage Trail, that main

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road.

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They're on that side of it.

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Am I reading that right?

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And if that's the case, does this mean the developer will

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be responsible for developing this part of that road, on

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this stretch of the road?

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Yes, sir.

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Heritage Trail is within the boundaries of this property.

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The only other part of that is being dedicated by this plat

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en is right up there.

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Okay.

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So they're going to do it all at one time and not half on

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one side and then wait for the other side to develop?

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It's actually currently under design.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Great.

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Thank you.

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Would you have that, sir?

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Recommendation.

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Recommendation.

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If we've got a move in.

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Okay.

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Anything else on this one?

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Anything else on B?

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[inaudible]

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Okay.

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How about item C?

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All right.

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So we need to announce that B is going to be pulled and go

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to individual.

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Because we've got a recommendation on item B that's going

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to be pulled from the consent agenda and that can become

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our, you want to make it item B then for individual

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consideration items to add that condition?

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Okay.

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Pardon me.

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What are you doing then?

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There's a condition on that.

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It actually is tied somewhat to your question if there has

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to be a tweak or a change on that storm drain.

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Gotcha.

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It can be handled at the RC level rather than having to

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come all the way back to PMZ.

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Okay.

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Thanks.

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To C. Thank you, Haley.

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All right.

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Okay.

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This is a final plan for eight residential lots that are

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located in the ETJ.

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So this property is situated at the corner of Hickory Hill

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Road and Bell Cote Circle.

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So these will be eight single family residential lots.

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Any questions on this one?

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Any questions on this?

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Commissioner Ellis.

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Thank you, Chair.

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It's more of a typo question.

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On the plat, it's got PRDCT instead of DRDCT.

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I don't know if that makes a difference, but the legend and

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the plat do not match.

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Thank you for pointing that out.

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You are welcome.

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Anything else on this one?

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Let's go on to D.

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Okay.

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This is a preliminary plat for a single lot.

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It's located on the south side of the Razor Ranch

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development.

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It actually has frontage on Panhandle, the service road,

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and Scripture Street on the south.

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Thank you.

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Anybody have a question on E?

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Does Julie need to come up on anything on that item?

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Okay.

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And if you want to stay there, we'll move on to 3A then.

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Okay.

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This item is a site plan for an entertainment center to be

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located in Razor Ranch.

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So the request is for approval of a site plan for an

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entertainment venue to be constructed on lot 17, block A,

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that we just saw on the final plat that we looked at.

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You can see general location outlined here in red.

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You may remember this property was recently part of a rez

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oning request.

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We brought it from the south mixed use district to the

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south RR2 district.

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To give you a better idea of where this is located, you can

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see the property is situated just south of the Embassy Suit

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es and Convention Center.

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It will be located just a little ways north of the future

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extension of Panhandle Drive.

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As we've discussed before, all site plans for properties

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within the south RR2 district of the Razor Ranch overlay

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are subject to certain architectural and landscape

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standards that are outlined in the overlay district.

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So with a site plan approval, they are required to submit a

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site plan, a landscape plan, and building elevations for

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your consideration.

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So to walk through the site plan we have here, it's a

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building is just over 41,000 square feet.

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Outlined in red are the areas where there will be 20

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bowling lanes.

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There's an arcade also proposed outlined here in green.

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There's an event space within the building that's in this

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blue box here.

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And then there's also a restaurant in the remainder of the

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building.

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There will be a total of 165 parking spaces as it's shown

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here.

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151 would be the minimum requirement, but Razor Ranch doesn

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't have a maximum on the parking, so they're able to go over

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that minimum.

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There are bicycle racks proposed on the site.

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They'll be located here just outside the building.

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And this will be accessed from two internal private drives.

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You have what's called Private Drive C here on the side and

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Private Road A will be over here.

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And then looking at their landscape plan,

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they're proposing a site that would have just over 16%

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landscaping, 50% mature tree canopy.

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You can see all the areas in green would be landscaping

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throughout the parking lot and around the building.

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They're also proposing about 4,800 square feet of plaza

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area located outside the building here on the south side.

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That will contain benches, tables, some shade structures,

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and as well as some landscape plantings.

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To give you an idea of what the building will look like,

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this is the elevation for the south side.

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So that would be the front of the building and well as the

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left or the west side of the building here on the bottom.

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And then this would be the back side of the building, so

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the north side and the east side of the building.

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The Razor Ranch Overlay District outlines criteria for

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approval for their site plans.

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The site plan shall substantially comply with the concept

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and schematic plan that was approved by council.

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The site plan provides for a compatible arrangement of

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buildings and land uses that won't adversely affect

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neighboring properties.

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Provides for adequate and safe circulation of vehicular

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traffic and complies with all sections of the overlay.

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And staff through our analysis and study of the site plan

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found that we have met these conditions.

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>> Commissioner Sullivan.

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>> Anytime something comes in along the service road here,

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I'm concerned about the traffic.

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And even though the main entrance is on a smaller road,

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they all gotta get there somehow, they all have to leave

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somehow.

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And that's either through Bonnie Bray or the service road.

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And anytime you want to look at the service road on Google

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Map, you see all the backup, the red line is always there.

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I think it's, so what's gonna happen to that intersection

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and to Bonnie Bray and

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all of that to alleviate any traffic concerns that the

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residential area is gonna have in this building.

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I mean, I think it's great to have a rec center there.

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I think it's great to have the bowling lanes and all those

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things.

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But I'm just concerned about the traffic getting to and

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from.

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And what that's going to do to already a bad traffic

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situation.

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>> Certainly, so there would be multiple means of access to

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the site.

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Just to walk through a few of them, we have the service

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road here, as we've mentioned.

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There will also be heritage trail that is under

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construction and design right now that will also be a north

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south option off of university.

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And then Bonnie Bray is also under improvement.

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This phase is, I believe, under design right now.

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So within the next few years, Bonnie Bray will be widened

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and expanded in this area.

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And then there will also be Panhandle Road on the south

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that would provide some cross connectivity there.

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>> What's the few years versus the construction for this?

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>> I believe they're looking in the ballpark, 2020, 2021,

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somewhere in that range for Bonnie Bray.

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So potentially for a few years, it would be kind of tight.

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But you do have multiple means of access east, west, and

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north, south in this area that would provide options.

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>> Commissioner Smith.

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>> Thank you, Chair.

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Commissioner Sullivan, I think if you look at the Google

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Maps, the exit off of 35 to go to 380, if that's what your

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real concern is, where the backup is there.

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That is much further up from where the site that we're in

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conversation about.

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So they'd have to exit off at Oak Street to be able to get

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there.

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>> I understand.

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>> But when they leave there, they want to go back home

00:14:02.629 --> 00:14:06.519
south, they've got to get on the service road, get into the

00:14:06.519 --> 00:14:11.840
Mixmaster stuff at the university to then come around and

00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:13.480
go back south on 35.

00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:17.240
>> Sure. >> Or they go on Bonnie Bray, which is a four lane

00:14:17.240 --> 00:14:21.519
road when it turns into, when you get down to scripture, it

00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:22.480
's terrible.

00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.240
I mean, it just doesn't make sense why all of those roads

00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:29.990
aren't being done at the same time that we're planning on

00:14:29.990 --> 00:14:35.590
having how many more cars, 165 cars potentially enter that

00:14:35.590 --> 00:14:36.480
area.

00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:38.480
It just doesn't make sense to me.

00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:39.480
>> Okay.

00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:42.480
>> I'm not against the development.

00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:45.399
I just wish the roads and streets would get built out, the

00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:48.389
infrastructure would get built out at the same time so we

00:14:48.389 --> 00:14:51.250
don't have the same mess that we have every time something

00:14:51.250 --> 00:14:52.480
happens like this.

00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:54.480
That's all.

00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:55.480
>> Commissioner Beck.

00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:56.480
>> Thank you, Chair.

00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:59.480
I think the answer to all this is bicycles.

00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:01.929
I'm glad, I'm delighted that there's bicycle racks there

00:15:01.929 --> 00:15:04.279
and this will encourage people to bike there and they can

00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:05.480
avoid all that traffic.

00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:07.480
So that's one solution.

00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:11.070
My only concern here, or just question, really, the site

00:15:11.070 --> 00:15:14.799
plan shows six parking spaces that are proposed 165 for

00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:16.480
handicapped parking.

00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:19.480
So I'm assuming that's meeting a minimum requirement?

00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:20.480
>> Yes, sir. >> Okay.

00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:21.480
Okay.

00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:22.480
Thank you.

00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:23.480
>> Commissioner Rozell.

00:15:23.480 --> 00:15:25.480
>> Thank you, Chair.

00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:29.259
I have one question that I think is going to be stopped by

00:15:29.259 --> 00:15:32.990
the overlay, but you said that there's not a maximum

00:15:32.990 --> 00:15:36.480
parking requirement for this entire overlay.

00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:40.250
Within the overlay ordinance for razor ranch, they have to

00:15:40.250 --> 00:15:44.129
meet the city minimums of our code, but they are allowed to

00:15:44.129 --> 00:15:47.480
exceed that parking as much as they choose.

00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:49.480
There are landscape standards that come into play, though.

00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:52.909
They're required to have a landscape island every 15 spaces

00:15:52.909 --> 00:15:55.899
, end caps with landscaping and things like that to help

00:15:55.899 --> 00:15:57.480
enhance the parking lots.

00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:00.769
>> Yes, so I don't know if there's anything we can do with

00:16:00.769 --> 00:16:03.860
this project, but I just know the shopping center at

00:16:03.860 --> 00:16:07.070
University in Carroll is a concrete jungle because there's

00:16:07.070 --> 00:16:09.470
not a maximum parking requirement for them and they just

00:16:09.470 --> 00:16:10.480
pave the entire thing.

00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:13.169
And I would hate to see razor ranch turn into a ton of

00:16:13.169 --> 00:16:15.480
excess concrete when it's not needed.

00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:19.259
So 14 spaces isn't too much, but it's still probably a

00:16:19.259 --> 00:16:21.480
couple thousand square feet.

00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:22.480
>> Yes, sir.

00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:25.480
>> So that has a little pause in just future development.

00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:29.399
Maybe the city can think about ways to council development

00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:31.480
not to have excess parking.

00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:34.490
The other question I had, because that wasn't really a

00:16:34.490 --> 00:16:38.480
question, is on the elevations, can you show me this?

00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:42.480
So on the southwest, is that a massive poster?

00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:44.480
What is the proposal there?

00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:48.669
>> That will be a still graphic that will be on the side of

00:16:48.669 --> 00:16:50.480
the building there.

00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:53.840
It will be required to go through a sign permit, but it is

00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:57.159
intended to be a static graphic on the side of the building

00:16:57.159 --> 00:16:57.480
.

00:16:57.480 --> 00:16:59.480
>> And it wraps around to the side, it looks like.

00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:00.480
>> Yes.

00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:04.259
>> So that's outside our, within the elevation requirements

00:17:04.259 --> 00:17:07.750
, they're allowed to put a billboard more or less on the

00:17:07.750 --> 00:17:09.480
side of their building?

00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:12.839
>> Yeah, they have signed standards, so it can't exceed, I

00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:16.480
believe, I think 30% of the total building can be signed.

00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:20.250
I would have to look into that to confirm that number, but

00:17:20.250 --> 00:17:23.480
yes, they are allowed graphics of this nature.

00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:26.480
>> Okay, thanks.

00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:28.480
>> Commissioner Sanchez.

00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:30.480
>> My question was also on the parking.

00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:33.480
How do they come up with a number?

00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:38.940
I know last week, I mean, at our last meeting, on one of

00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:42.480
the construction sites, areas that were being constructed

00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:43.480
building,

00:17:43.480 --> 00:17:48.480
there was like one parking lot for every 420 square feet.

00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:51.769
How do they arrive at here as how many parking lots, how

00:17:51.769 --> 00:17:54.480
many parking spaces there's going to be?

00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:57.240
>> So there are different ratios for the different uses

00:17:57.240 --> 00:17:58.480
within the building.

00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:01.569
So I believe there is, I don't have the full site plan here

00:18:01.569 --> 00:18:04.059
on the screen, but if you look, there's a parking tab

00:18:04.059 --> 00:18:07.029
ulation table on the site plan that walks through what the

00:18:07.029 --> 00:18:08.480
different ratios are.

00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:12.109
So many parking spaces for each bowling lane, for each seat

00:18:12.109 --> 00:18:13.480
in the restaurant.

00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:17.500
It is looked at depending on each individual use within the

00:18:17.500 --> 00:18:18.480
building.

00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:20.480
There's a different ratio applied to each use.

00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:25.480
>> Okay.

00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:26.480
>> Commissioner Ellis.

00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:27.480
>> Thank you, Chair.

00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:32.140
Haley, what is the percentage of landscaping that a site

00:18:32.140 --> 00:18:35.480
must have in the razor ranch overlay?

00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:36.480
>> Let me grab my files real quick.

00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:57.480
>> Thanks.

00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:04.349
>> For this district, it is 10% landscape area and 20% tree

00:19:04.349 --> 00:19:05.480
canopy.

00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:12.480
Any other questions for Haley on this item?

00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:16.869
>> And just for housekeeping purposes, we do have the one

00:19:16.869 --> 00:19:20.480
item that was our 2B consent agenda item.

00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:25.839
That's FP 17-0023 and that will now be moved to our item B

00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:29.480
under items of individual consideration.

00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:35.480
>> That will move us on to public hearings.

00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:44.480
Haley.

00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:45.480
>> Okay.

00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:47.299
So items A and B are for the same site, so I've combined

00:19:47.299 --> 00:19:52.099
this into one presentation for you to try to keep things a

00:19:52.099 --> 00:19:54.480
little simpler.

00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:59.740
We have two requests for this site, the first being a rez

00:19:59.740 --> 00:20:03.480
oning from ICE district to NRMU district.

00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.750
And the second being an SUP request, so a specific use

00:20:06.750 --> 00:20:08.480
permit for two different uses.

00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:11.400
Multi-family use on a portion of the property and outdoor

00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:13.480
recreation use on another portion.

00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:17.480
In total, the site is just over 72 acres.

00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:21.710
Located on the west side of town, on the south side of Oak

00:20:21.710 --> 00:20:24.480
Street, and along the rail line.

00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:29.339
Looking at the future land use, this area is designated as

00:20:29.339 --> 00:20:31.480
industrial commerce.

00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:34.519
The intent of that designation being to promote both light

00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:37.480
and heavy industrial uses in and around the airport.

00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:41.920
The proposed NRMU district does not meet the intent of that

00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:44.480
future land use designation.

00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:47.599
So when a rezoning request doesn't conform to the future

00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:50.839
land use map, the Denton Development Code does provide

00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:53.480
additional criteria that we're charged with looking at.

00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:56.670
These criteria are intended to balance a lot of competing

00:20:56.670 --> 00:20:59.599
interests, public health, safety, and the general welfare

00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:02.480
of the public against the right to the use of the property.

00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:05.839
These criteria include the existing land use pattern,

00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:09.220
whether or not an isolated zoning district would be created

00:21:09.220 --> 00:21:09.480
.

00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:12.480
Is there adequate infrastructure to serve the property?

00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:14.480
Any potential environmental impacts?

00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:16.480
And then just the overall character of the district.

00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:20.250
So we'll kind of go through those and look at some maps to

00:21:20.250 --> 00:21:22.480
see what we have going on here.

00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:25.960
One of those being that the site is within the West Park

00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:28.480
Tax Increment Reinvestment Zone.

00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:32.500
So that's an approximately 800 acre area that you can see

00:21:32.500 --> 00:21:34.480
all hatched here on the map.

00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:37.829
The intent of the TERS is to promote industrial development

00:21:37.829 --> 00:21:40.500
in this area by providing some incentives to help

00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:43.900
compensate for the cost of public infrastructure that is

00:21:43.900 --> 00:21:49.480
required to help support this development.

00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:52.759
Looking at what's going on in the area in terms of zoning

00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:56.220
and uses, you see the subject property and much of the

00:21:56.220 --> 00:21:58.480
property to the north and south.

00:21:58.480 --> 00:21:59.480
Commissioner Beck.

00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:00.480
Thank you, Chair.

00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:04.779
I have a question here concerning the TERS. So it's

00:22:04.779 --> 00:22:07.480
explicitly for industrial development, is that correct?

00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:09.480
That is the stated intent of the TERS.

00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:14.450
And just for the record, not for an NRMU usage, as the

00:22:14.450 --> 00:22:19.480
applicant wants to do for multifamily dwellings.

00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:22.460
I can speak to the intent of it is to promote industrial

00:22:22.460 --> 00:22:23.480
development.

00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:26.480
So this would be outside the intent of that.

00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:27.480
Okay, thanks.

00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:35.480
I can read the mission statement.

00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:41.089
The mission of the Tax Increment Reinvestment Zone number

00:22:41.089 --> 00:22:43.869
two is to provide a source of funding for public

00:22:43.869 --> 00:22:46.480
infrastructure improvements to encourage and accelerate

00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:50.029
necessary development within the largest industrial zoned

00:22:50.029 --> 00:22:51.480
area within the city.

00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:55.480
That's the mission statement.

00:22:55.480 --> 00:22:57.480
Commissioner Beck.

00:22:57.480 --> 00:22:59.480
Does that go along with what I was saying then?

00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:02.480
It kind of negates anything outside of industrial use?

00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:03.480
Correct.

00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:05.480
I'm going to call them legal.

00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:08.480
If I could chime in just a minute.

00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:11.640
The intention is that it would promote the industrial, but

00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:14.740
that's not to the exclusion of all else, because it's the

00:23:14.740 --> 00:23:16.480
least restrictive.

00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:24.440
So you're going to be able to have whatever accumulation is

00:23:24.440 --> 00:23:26.480
under that. So we anticipate that there are going to be

00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:26.480
commercial uses in that area, for example.

00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:29.910
And I think that there is a current agreement for the TERS

00:23:29.910 --> 00:23:33.640
that contemplates that, that there would be industrial and

00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:34.480
commercial.

00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:39.930
Okay, my concern, I guess, here is, and I'm not trying to

00:23:39.930 --> 00:23:43.779
jump ahead, but to me this proposal is a round peg trying

00:23:43.779 --> 00:23:45.480
to fit a square hole.

00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:51.980
But should this thing go forward, then I guess, are you

00:23:51.980 --> 00:23:56.400
saying, Jennifer, that the money from TERS could be used

00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:59.480
for this multifamily development?

00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:03.670
That's exactly what would happen. I think the reimbursement

00:24:03.670 --> 00:24:06.509
agreement, the money goes to RASER, but I think there might

00:24:06.509 --> 00:24:07.480
be a pass-through.

00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:10.670
But you can ask the applicant when we go into regular

00:24:10.670 --> 00:24:11.480
session.

00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:14.480
Okay, thanks.

00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:17.480
Okay.

00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:18.480
All right.

00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:20.480
Commissioner Sullivan.

00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:25.789
Quick question. It seems like the major thing that I see

00:24:25.789 --> 00:24:29.480
here is a lake pond retention something.

00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:33.480
How is that going to fit into the overall scheme?

00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:39.700
And I guess being neighborhood, might be less runoff, less

00:24:39.700 --> 00:24:42.480
waste than industrial?

00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:47.000
So you're correct, there is. I believe it's about 15 acres

00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:52.069
of pond associated zone X flood plain and environmentally

00:24:52.069 --> 00:24:55.480
sensitive area that all surround the pond.

00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:59.670
So as far as the drainage and runoff from the site, when

00:24:59.670 --> 00:25:02.539
they're going through the planning process, they will

00:25:02.539 --> 00:25:06.480
analyze what the best plan is for that.

00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:08.789
But I would anticipate that it would drain to the pond in

00:25:08.789 --> 00:25:11.240
general, as the site does currently based on the topography

00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:11.480
.

00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:19.089
Well, I'm guessing neighborhood would be a better fit than

00:25:19.089 --> 00:25:20.480
industrial.

00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:24.859
I mean, I'm just guessing that there's a lot less waste

00:25:24.859 --> 00:25:27.480
that could go into that area.

00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:31.960
If it were homes or apartments, then it would be from

00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:35.480
factories, car washes or whatever.

00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:37.789
I would imagine that's correct, but not sure of the

00:25:37.789 --> 00:25:38.480
specifics.

00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:40.480
Thank you.

00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:42.480
Commissioner Sanchez.

00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:47.440
Yes. When you were talking about the 800 acres of

00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:50.890
industrial designation, and it also talks about

00:25:50.890 --> 00:25:52.480
environmental impacts.

00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:56.269
Now, when you looked at the 800 acres, did somebody go out

00:25:56.269 --> 00:25:59.359
there and actually look at it and say, okay, these areas

00:25:59.359 --> 00:26:02.509
within this 800 acres, or there's different topography,

00:26:02.509 --> 00:26:04.480
there's different issues.

00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.829
Are we going to look at that and say, you know, not the

00:26:07.829 --> 00:26:10.480
whole 800 acres are identical.

00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:15.069
And so each area has to be looked at, just not designate

00:26:15.069 --> 00:26:19.779
the whole 800 acres, without doing some type of impact

00:26:19.779 --> 00:26:20.480
study.

00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:24.250
As are they all equal, or is there some areas that are much

00:26:24.250 --> 00:26:25.480
more sensitive?

00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:28.950
Yes. So the 800 acres that's shown here, that's just the

00:26:28.950 --> 00:26:30.480
boundary of the towers.

00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:33.839
Of course, each site will have to be looked at individually

00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:37.480
as it develops, based on the unique conditions of the site.

00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:41.539
In terms of one of the considerations for the rezoning

00:26:41.539 --> 00:26:46.440
approval, environmental, potential environmental impacts on

00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:51.089
this particular site are a concern that should be looked at

00:26:51.089 --> 00:26:52.480
, certainly.

00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:55.910
One thing to point out, you might want to go through the SU

00:26:55.910 --> 00:26:59.349
P, because the lake is actually not a component of the SUP

00:26:59.349 --> 00:27:00.480
application. It is excluded from that.

00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:03.230
From the SUP, that's correct. It is within the boundaries

00:27:03.230 --> 00:27:07.480
of the rezoning request, which covers the whole 72 acres.

00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:10.579
What difference does that make? Commissioner Smith. Thank

00:27:10.579 --> 00:27:11.480
you, Chair. What difference does that make?

00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:14.910
It has rights to other, I'm not sure if there can be convey

00:27:14.910 --> 00:27:17.480
ance. Maybe that's a question the applicant can ask for.

00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:20.710
There's specific rights to that water, so I don't know if

00:27:20.710 --> 00:27:23.480
conveyance from that site could go to that.

00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:26.220
Again, that's a question for the applicant, and we would

00:27:26.220 --> 00:27:28.539
look at that at Platting, but it is not part of this

00:27:28.539 --> 00:27:29.480
application.

00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:31.869
Well, and one thing the Chair wants to step in is this is

00:27:31.869 --> 00:27:35.390
going to be a public hearing item, so the applicant will be

00:27:35.390 --> 00:27:38.829
able to speak, and they'll have their engineer, and a lot

00:27:38.829 --> 00:27:41.480
of these questions that we're kind of getting off on,

00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:43.930
we can actually address to somebody that can answer those

00:27:43.930 --> 00:27:46.569
questions. So let's try to get through the presentation and

00:27:46.569 --> 00:27:48.240
the high points, and then we'll get into some of these

00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.910
details when we get into our public session with the

00:27:50.910 --> 00:27:53.480
applicant to address them specifically.

00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:56.480
So if you'll please continue. Thank you, Hayley. Certainly.

00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:00.759
Yeah, so looking at the compatibility of the rezoning

00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:03.660
request, the subject property and properties to the north

00:28:03.660 --> 00:28:05.480
and south are within the ICE district.

00:28:05.480 --> 00:28:08.930
There are existing industrial facilities developed both to

00:28:08.930 --> 00:28:11.480
the south and the east along the rail line.

00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:14.319
Just a few specifics, there's the Benning Keith Dist

00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:17.910
ribution Center reader link distribution, 84 lumber to the

00:28:17.910 --> 00:28:18.480
north.

00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:22.480
We also have the ICG district to the west of the property.

00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:24.480
You can see here the Peterbilt site.

00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:27.569
There's several Gaswell sites and quite a large chunk of

00:28:27.569 --> 00:28:29.480
undeveloped land in this area.

00:28:29.480 --> 00:28:33.089
If you cross I-35, you'll see a much larger mix of zoning

00:28:33.089 --> 00:28:36.660
districts, just some high points. There is Razor Ranch here

00:28:36.660 --> 00:28:38.480
to the northeast for orientation.

00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:41.839
There is the hospital, quite a bit of residential

00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:45.759
development, and then the UNT campus here and UNT Stadium

00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:47.480
here to the southeast.

00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:52.900
Looking at how access would be provided to the site, one

00:28:52.900 --> 00:28:56.640
condition, there is an existing rail line that runs along

00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:58.480
the east boundary of the property.

00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:01.829
We have Oak Street, which turns into Jim Crystal here on

00:29:01.829 --> 00:29:04.480
the north, which is a primary arterial.

00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:07.970
Currently, two-lane undivided roadway intended based on its

00:29:07.970 --> 00:29:11.480
classification to eventually be a six-lane divided road.

00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:14.690
All dedication and improvements required for this

00:29:14.690 --> 00:29:18.480
development would be determined at the time of platting.

00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:21.099
Precision Drive currently extends just up to the southern

00:29:21.099 --> 00:29:22.480
boundary of the property.

00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:25.730
It is intended to be extended north as part of this

00:29:25.730 --> 00:29:29.250
development, and that is intended to be developed as a two-

00:29:29.250 --> 00:29:31.730
lane undivided roadway per its classification as a

00:29:31.730 --> 00:29:33.480
commercial mixed-use collector.

00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:38.019
Now looking into the specifics of what they're hoping to do

00:29:38.019 --> 00:29:42.210
on the property, they've applied for an SUP for two uses,

00:29:42.210 --> 00:29:43.480
as I mentioned.

00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:47.480
So we have two phases of multifamily development proposed.

00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:49.480
Here in green would be phase one.

00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:52.440
The red area represents phase two of the multifamily

00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:53.480
development.

00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:56.960
In total, that's about 32 and a half acres of the property

00:29:56.960 --> 00:29:59.480
that would be dedicated to multifamily.

00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:03.480
Phase one is proposed as 189 units.

00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:08.240
That would be 700 bedrooms, a density of about 8.8 dwelling

00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:09.480
units per acre.

00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:13.690
Phase two would contain an additional 100 units, 376

00:30:13.690 --> 00:30:17.349
bedrooms, and again, be just under nine dwelling units per

00:30:17.349 --> 00:30:18.480
acre in density.

00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:22.240
Then phase three of the development is the proposed outdoor

00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:23.480
recreation use.

00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:26.309
It would be on approximately 20 acres of land on the south

00:30:26.309 --> 00:30:27.480
side of the property.

00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:31.009
And as it's shown here, would contain approximately five

00:30:31.009 --> 00:30:33.480
ball fields and associated parking.

00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:36.630
The remaining area of the property, the balance of the acre

00:30:36.630 --> 00:30:39.480
age being the large lake that's in the middle of it,

00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:43.670
I've outlined in blue the boundaries of the riparian buffer

00:30:43.670 --> 00:30:47.799
environmentally sensitive area that is associated with the

00:30:47.799 --> 00:30:51.480
lake and the upstream and downstream of the lake.

00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:53.900
And as Richard mentioned, that is excluded from the SUP

00:30:53.900 --> 00:30:54.480
request.

00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:55.480
They're not providing-

00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:56.480
Commissioner Smith.

00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:57.480
Thank you, Chair.

00:30:57.480 --> 00:30:58.480
Either of those uses in that area.

00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:02.480
So can you give us stream flow on the blue lines there?

00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:04.960
Just in regards to the recreation area, would that come

00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:07.119
into an area where that lake flooded, that those

00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:09.630
recreational areas will be flooded too because they're

00:31:09.630 --> 00:31:10.480
downstream?

00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:13.480
I believe that's downstream, yeah.

00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:16.119
So I'm not sure of the conditions there for flooding, but

00:31:16.119 --> 00:31:17.480
it does flow to the south.

00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:19.480
Okay. Thank you.

00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:20.480
Commissioner Rosell.

00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:22.480
Thank you, Chair.

00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:27.190
Would they have to change any floodplain regulations or

00:31:27.190 --> 00:31:31.480
stipulations in order to build phase two in red?

00:31:31.480 --> 00:31:34.480
Yes, so there would be a lengthy process ahead of them.

00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:38.670
There is FEMA designation on there, so they would have to

00:31:38.670 --> 00:31:41.640
go through the conditional letter of map revision to

00:31:41.640 --> 00:31:44.480
potentially develop within the floodplain.

00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:48.849
On top of that, this whole area in blue is ESA, so they

00:31:48.849 --> 00:31:51.630
would need to first do a field assessment to verify the

00:31:51.630 --> 00:31:53.480
existence of the riparian area.

00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:56.109
And then if that is verified, there would potentially be

00:31:56.109 --> 00:31:58.730
the alternative ESA plan that would come back before you

00:31:58.730 --> 00:31:59.480
and council.

00:31:59.480 --> 00:32:04.480
Thank you.

00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:06.470
Just to give you an idea of the product that we're looking

00:32:06.470 --> 00:32:08.480
at, these are some of the conceptual elevations.

00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:11.450
Many more examples were included in your backup, but this

00:32:11.450 --> 00:32:14.480
is the type of apartments they would be looking to build.

00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:17.480
You can see some look more like traditional single family.

00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:22.880
Others would contain multiple units and be more like a

00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:25.480
triplex or a fourplex.

00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:28.480
Notifications were sent about the request.

00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:29.480
We received two responses.

00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:32.480
One of those was included in your backup in the packet.

00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:34.480
The other I passed out prior to the meeting.

00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:36.480
One was in favor and one was in opposition.

00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:38.480
You can see those outlines here on the map.

00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:42.039
And I did want to point out we ran the numbers, and it's

00:32:42.039 --> 00:32:45.990
currently at 22% opposition, so that would trigger a super

00:32:45.990 --> 00:32:50.480
majority vote at council, not at P&Z.

00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:51.480
Commissioner Sullivan.

00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:56.509
Do we know at this point the average square footage of the

00:32:56.509 --> 00:33:00.480
residential uses and approximate cost?

00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:06.480
I know that's a long way away, but I'm just thinking, would

00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:13.589
this be considered, quote, low income or moderate housing

00:33:13.589 --> 00:33:17.480
costs or something of that nature?

00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:19.480
It is intended for student housing.

00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:22.480
That's what it would be marketed towards.

00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:24.930
I believe there were some floor plans included in your

00:33:24.930 --> 00:33:25.480
backup.

00:33:25.480 --> 00:33:27.480
I'm not sure of the exact square footage on those.

00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:31.250
It would have to meet our minimum of at least $500 per unit

00:33:31.250 --> 00:33:31.480
.

00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:33.450
And as to the cost, I'm not sure what that would be, but

00:33:33.450 --> 00:33:35.480
the applicant will be here at the public hearing.

00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:36.480
Okay.

00:33:36.480 --> 00:33:37.480
Could maybe speak to that.

00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:40.480
Okay.

00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:41.480
All right.

00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:44.250
In terms of the rezoning request, staff is recommending

00:33:44.250 --> 00:33:46.480
denial of the request for these reasons.

00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:49.910
Incompatibility with the surrounding property uses, incons

00:33:49.910 --> 00:33:53.829
istency with the goals of the West Park TURS, and inconsist

00:33:53.829 --> 00:33:56.509
ency with the goals and objectives of the Denton Plan 2030

00:33:56.509 --> 00:33:58.480
and that industrial commerce designation.

00:33:58.480 --> 00:34:02.930
Similarly for the SUP, we're recommending denial of that

00:34:02.930 --> 00:34:05.480
request for the same reasons.

00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:09.670
However, if P&Z votes to recommend approval, we do have

00:34:09.670 --> 00:34:13.480
some conditions that we would like to see on that.

00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:16.630
The first of those being that the site plan, landscape plan

00:34:16.630 --> 00:34:19.480
, and elevations provided to you would be considered

00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:20.480
conceptual.

00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:22.789
So that the site would need to go through a full site plan

00:34:22.789 --> 00:34:26.679
submittal for each phase to ensure that it meets all of the

00:34:26.679 --> 00:34:28.809
requirements of the Denton Development Code in terms of

00:34:28.809 --> 00:34:30.480
landscaping, parking, and building design.

00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:33.480
Let's go through these first.

00:34:33.480 --> 00:34:35.480
Yeah, that's what I'm going to do.

00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:38.780
The second condition is we would require that before any of

00:34:38.780 --> 00:34:41.730
phase two or phase three be developed that that ESA be

00:34:41.730 --> 00:34:45.030
examined fully through an assessment and then a potential

00:34:45.030 --> 00:34:47.480
alternative ESA requirement there.

00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:50.590
And then the third requirement would be that the multif

00:34:50.590 --> 00:34:53.550
amily use be limited strictly to the acreage that was

00:34:53.550 --> 00:34:56.480
proposed here with this conceptual site plan.

00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:59.300
Similarly for the outdoor recreation, it be limited to

00:34:59.300 --> 00:35:02.480
those approximately 20 acres and that the multifamily not

00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:05.480
contain more than the maximum number of units shown here,

00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:07.480
which was 289.

00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:12.480
And can answer any questions you might have.

00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:14.480
Call on legal for clarification.

00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:17.440
I just want to address what I had indicated earlier about

00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.480
reimbursement.

00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:22.250
It looks like in the project plan for the TURS, multifamily

00:35:22.250 --> 00:35:25.480
was specifically excluded for reimbursement.

00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:27.480
Thank you.

00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:29.480
Commissioner back. Thank you, Chair.

00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:34.480
Just out of curiosity, part of our information deals with

00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:38.480
cost to the city to help develop this area.

00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:42.380
Would the expense to the city and other government entities

00:35:42.380 --> 00:35:46.309
and providing improving increasing or maintaining public

00:35:46.309 --> 00:35:50.230
utilities school streets and other public safety measures

00:35:50.230 --> 00:35:53.920
in your opinion, or if you know, be greater or less for an

00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:56.480
NRMU district over an ICI district.

00:35:56.480 --> 00:36:09.480
Unfortunately, I can't speak to that. This would be a high

00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:09.480
volume of students. So I imagine the potential traffic

00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:09.480
impacts could be substantial. I believe it was total of

00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:09.480
1000 bedrooms roughly.

00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:12.480
But I'm not sure what the comparison would be there.

00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:16.289
I think my impression that when you develop a residential

00:36:16.289 --> 00:36:19.699
area like this, the demand is going to be greater on

00:36:19.699 --> 00:36:23.820
infrastructure and everything as opposed to industrial uses

00:36:23.820 --> 00:36:26.480
more plumbing, that type of thing.

00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:29.480
But that's just my.

00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:32.440
I would say, given the topography of the site and the

00:36:32.440 --> 00:36:35.550
unique conditions there with the lake it's unlikely it

00:36:35.550 --> 00:36:38.789
would be a large industrial user more likely, if not this

00:36:38.789 --> 00:36:42.019
then develop as smaller supporting commercial uses or

00:36:42.019 --> 00:36:43.480
something similar to that.

00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:46.710
Okay, but that just the concern to the cost of city should

00:36:46.710 --> 00:36:49.480
I think you know way in here on which way we go.

00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:51.480
Thank you.

00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:55.250
Commissioner Smith. Thank you, not to bog things down legal

00:36:55.250 --> 00:36:55.480
.

00:36:55.480 --> 00:36:58.719
If we were to make if we were to approve this what we have

00:36:58.719 --> 00:37:01.630
to make the motion to accept it with second staff

00:37:01.630 --> 00:37:03.480
recommendations then.

00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:04.480
Correct.

00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:07.369
If they're saying that yes, do we work with we recommend

00:37:07.369 --> 00:37:10.389
denial but if you do approve we recommend that you approve

00:37:10.389 --> 00:37:13.340
with these recommendations will we need to make our motion

00:37:13.340 --> 00:37:14.480
to say yes we need to.

00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:17.289
We recommend we approve and we are, but the motion is a

00:37:17.289 --> 00:37:20.480
motion to approve but with staff recommendations then.

00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:25.480
Yes, because they would be in the record already. Thank you

00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:25.480
.

00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:29.480
This is your backup right. Yes. Yes. Okay.

00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:32.480
Commissioner Sanchez.

00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:35.480
And there's two ponds big ponds in there.

00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:50.480
Two lakes.

00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:54.769
And some of those areas further down properties, the land

00:37:54.769 --> 00:37:59.250
there's pretty flat. So my biggest concern would be, what

00:37:59.250 --> 00:38:03.469
would you, how would you, there'd be a lot of, what do you

00:38:03.469 --> 00:38:07.739
call it, runoff in that area because of the topography and

00:38:07.739 --> 00:38:11.960
putting the large industrial complex there or several of

00:38:11.960 --> 00:38:16.170
them would increase that erosion or you know you couldn't

00:38:16.170 --> 00:38:18.480
do that because of the.

00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:21.480
Because of the landscape.

00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:23.480
Thank you. Microsoft over there.

00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:26.480
Commissioner.

00:38:26.480 --> 00:38:30.480
Did you hear me. Yes, sir. Okay.

00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:36.190
Yes, as I mentioned, I don't think even, you know, this

00:38:36.190 --> 00:38:42.389
request aside, given the topography and that, like, I think

00:38:42.389 --> 00:38:47.320
it unlikely the site would ever develop with large

00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:52.949
intensive industrial users, such as what's out there at

00:38:52.949 --> 00:38:54.480
this time.

00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:57.650
But in terms of the runoff, I'm not, I'm not sure how that

00:38:57.650 --> 00:39:00.929
would compare between the residential and the industrial

00:39:00.929 --> 00:39:01.480
use.

00:39:01.480 --> 00:39:04.469
Other than I can speak to the NRMU zoning would require

00:39:04.469 --> 00:39:07.389
more landscape area overall on the sites that could

00:39:07.389 --> 00:39:10.880
potentially treat runoff, then would be permitted under the

00:39:10.880 --> 00:39:12.480
industrial district.

00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:18.480
If that gives you any comparison there.

00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:21.940
The only question I have is in regards to the changing the

00:39:21.940 --> 00:39:25.269
zoning, what would it do as far as the buffering or set

00:39:25.269 --> 00:39:28.719
backs for neighboring properties like to the west being

00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:32.480
industrial against a residential use versus if it stayed

00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:33.480
industrial.

00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:36.909
Yes, so with the current industrial abutting industrial

00:39:36.909 --> 00:39:40.599
there wouldn't be buffering requirements. There wouldn't

00:39:40.599 --> 00:39:44.110
necessarily be buffers required across precision drive here

00:39:44.110 --> 00:39:47.530
but there would be buffers between the uses required on the

00:39:47.530 --> 00:39:48.480
south side.

00:39:48.480 --> 00:39:52.480
Assuming this would develop with those recreation uses.

00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:57.079
I believe it would be a 15 foot buffer that would be

00:39:57.079 --> 00:39:58.480
required between there.

00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:01.840
But the buffering would be against an industrial use coming

00:40:01.840 --> 00:40:05.269
up against a residential use in the future. Is that correct

00:40:05.269 --> 00:40:05.480
.

00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:08.510
I don't believe there's any place where the industrial

00:40:08.510 --> 00:40:11.909
would immediately about the residential as they've shown it

00:40:11.909 --> 00:40:15.110
, because there would be streets separating it on both the

00:40:15.110 --> 00:40:16.480
north and west side.

00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:20.480
The railroad currently exists between that on the east.

00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:23.440
So the red light that has the buffer that we've gotten into

00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:26.980
sometimes before so that's fine so the property to the west

00:40:26.980 --> 00:40:30.510
then wouldn't be impacted that they would have to set back

00:40:30.510 --> 00:40:35.030
further for buffering because of the street, because it has

00:40:35.030 --> 00:40:36.480
that separation.

00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:40.250
Any impact if we did changes are all on this side it doesn

00:40:40.250 --> 00:40:44.480
't impact the uses to the west. No sir. Okay.

00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:48.269
One other question that I would have or ask of staff or

00:40:48.269 --> 00:40:51.480
spend a couple questions about the impacts.

00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:54.559
Would it be possible between now and when we get into our

00:40:54.559 --> 00:40:57.639
public meeting to get what the impact fees based on this

00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:00.449
site plan would be as far as the traffic impact fees

00:41:00.449 --> 00:41:01.480
wastewater.

00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:05.030
I can see numbers see how big that number really is for if

00:41:05.030 --> 00:41:08.750
they decide to move forward what those fees would be to the

00:41:08.750 --> 00:41:09.480
city.

00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:13.289
I can hear the demands on the infrastructure rough numbers

00:41:13.289 --> 00:41:16.989
there for you. That'd be great. Any other questions on this

00:41:16.989 --> 00:41:17.480
item.

00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:20.480
Okay.

00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:24.480
I think Julie gets to come up now.

00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:31.480
Thank you Haley great job on all your presentations.

00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:44.480
Okay.

00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:48.010
So I'm Julie Wyatt senior planner with the city of Denton

00:41:48.010 --> 00:41:52.480
and I am presenting the 1722 East side of Mont.

00:41:52.480 --> 00:41:55.969
So the request before you is to consider an initial zoning

00:41:55.969 --> 00:41:59.699
of neighborhood residential mixed use for a property that's

00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:03.480
approximately six acres here in the yellow is generally

00:42:03.480 --> 00:42:08.519
located on the east side of the future FM 2499 alignment

00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:12.480
about 1400 feet south of Robinson Road.

00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:16.710
So most of us haven't traveled this portion of the road. It

00:42:16.710 --> 00:42:22.500
's and and it doesn't look today like it does in the aerial.

00:42:22.500 --> 00:42:23.480
This is a new road. I believe it's opening in 2018.

00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:27.449
So, so we're going to have to use our imaginations tonight

00:42:27.449 --> 00:42:31.440
about what it's what it actually looks like adjacent to the

00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:32.480
property.

00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:36.260
So currently the property has an RD 5x zoning designation.

00:42:36.260 --> 00:42:39.690
As you probably are aware this is our place holding zoning

00:42:39.690 --> 00:42:43.199
designation for properties once they're annexed into the

00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:44.480
city of Denton.

00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:48.059
When this property was annexed a long time ago it received

00:42:48.059 --> 00:42:49.480
that designation.

00:42:49.480 --> 00:42:53.380
It didn't develop at that time and it's it was it was kind

00:42:53.380 --> 00:42:57.809
of landlocked until until until about next year. So, so now

00:42:57.809 --> 00:43:02.019
the applicant is proposing an NRM use zoning district to

00:43:02.019 --> 00:43:03.480
develop the site.

00:43:03.480 --> 00:43:07.400
The didn't plan 2030 designates this area is low low

00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:11.179
density residential. The intent of this is to encourage

00:43:11.179 --> 00:43:15.119
that sort of low density suburban development pattern those

00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:18.989
those single family neighborhoods that we're all familiar

00:43:18.989 --> 00:43:23.699
with the proposed zoning does not technically meet this,

00:43:23.699 --> 00:43:26.480
this low density residential designation.

00:43:26.480 --> 00:43:31.000
So in that case the section 35 dot 3 dot 3 dot B dot 3

00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:35.480
kicks in and we take a little closer look at the request.

00:43:35.480 --> 00:43:38.190
There's a there's a little more criteria as you talked

00:43:38.190 --> 00:43:39.480
about a Haley's case.

00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:42.949
So these criteria are intended to look at the existing land

00:43:42.949 --> 00:43:46.480
use patterns see if the proposed zoning conforms to it.

00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:49.420
See if this creates an isolated zoning district if there's

00:43:49.420 --> 00:43:52.480
adequate infrastructure, what the environmental impacts

00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:55.300
would be and then what the character is of the area and the

00:43:55.300 --> 00:43:56.480
proposed district.

00:43:56.480 --> 00:43:59.159
So we're going to go through the area and just kind of talk

00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:02.150
about these together. So first of all, I'm sure you all

00:44:02.150 --> 00:44:05.880
remember this slide. We've had a lot of zoning cases come

00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:08.480
adjacent to this future roadway.

00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:14.679
And so this one's no different. In this case, the 2499

00:44:14.679 --> 00:44:19.480
arterial will run through Denton in this fashion.

00:44:19.480 --> 00:44:23.690
The the star is the subject property and this this road is

00:44:23.690 --> 00:44:27.760
going to connect Denton to DFW airport south of Flower M

00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:33.119
ound. So it's going to be a major thoroughfare and regional

00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:34.480
connector.

00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:37.130
So based upon that staff does not believe that this

00:44:37.130 --> 00:44:40.480
property would actually develop with single family uses.

00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:45.949
It's because of this 900 feet along the arterial. It really

00:44:45.949 --> 00:44:48.480
is sort of sandwiched up against this arterial.

00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:51.219
We don't we don't really don't believe that single family

00:44:51.219 --> 00:44:53.739
uses would actually develop on the six acres and that

00:44:53.739 --> 00:44:56.329
commercial use is a really more appropriate given the

00:44:56.329 --> 00:44:58.480
visibility and the access of the site.

00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:02.690
So 2499 in this area. Here's a text dot plan of it. It's

00:45:02.690 --> 00:45:06.090
proposed to be a six lane divided roadway. As I said, it's

00:45:06.090 --> 00:45:07.480
currently under construction.

00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:11.000
The final design just just to point out has some noise

00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:13.909
walls in this area. So one that will actually affect the

00:45:13.909 --> 00:45:17.000
subject property on the south end of the of the property

00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:22.480
line and then one across across the street from the

00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:24.480
adjacent residential.

00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:30.679
Here's the subject property here in in the light green. So

00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:35.480
we also looked at the neighboring subdivisions and area.

00:45:35.480 --> 00:45:40.280
So in this in this to the north of the subject property, we

00:45:40.280 --> 00:45:43.480
have a single family subdivision.

00:45:43.480 --> 00:45:46.710
It is part of plan development 176 that included

00:45:46.710 --> 00:45:49.480
neighborhoods as well as public utilities.

00:45:49.480 --> 00:45:52.300
If you'll see right along here, this is actually an

00:45:52.300 --> 00:45:55.960
electric transmission line that cuts between the subject

00:45:55.960 --> 00:45:59.480
property and the neighborhoods to the north.

00:45:59.480 --> 00:46:02.489
And then there's also some commercial kind of over here

00:46:02.489 --> 00:46:06.079
near Teasley. And then there's some undeveloped commercial

00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:10.650
in this plan development in this location to the north is

00:46:10.650 --> 00:46:12.480
already five X as well.

00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:17.159
It is developed with a gas well facility to the to the east

00:46:17.159 --> 00:46:20.460
of the subject property. You have in our four that's

00:46:20.460 --> 00:46:22.480
developed with the single family neighborhood.

00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:25.369
There is an open space lot that separates the subject

00:46:25.369 --> 00:46:28.679
property from those neighborhoods and to the south. You

00:46:28.679 --> 00:46:32.480
have PD 111, which is also a single family neighborhood.

00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:37.480
It also includes some open spaces. So when we. Yes, sir.

00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:40.579
Commissioner back. Thank you, Chair. That open space like

00:46:40.579 --> 00:46:43.389
that separates that housing development from what are we

00:46:43.389 --> 00:46:46.480
talking about in with dimensions?

00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:49.909
I mean, yeah, I measured it. You know, it gets a little

00:46:49.909 --> 00:46:52.650
gets a little wider here on the south end, a little

00:46:52.650 --> 00:46:54.480
narrower here in the middle.

00:46:54.480 --> 00:46:58.090
I want to say it probably isn't more than at the narrow

00:46:58.090 --> 00:47:01.949
part, maybe 30 feet wide. Okay. Is there a whole landscape

00:47:01.949 --> 00:47:02.480
in there?

00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:06.670
I think it's more natural. It isn't a floodplain. And so it

00:47:06.670 --> 00:47:11.030
's kind of just natural existing canopy in that area. Okay.

00:47:11.030 --> 00:47:12.480
Okay. Thank you.

00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:15.150
So when we talk about commercial development next to next

00:47:15.150 --> 00:47:18.389
to single family residential neighborhoods, we want to be

00:47:18.389 --> 00:47:22.480
sensitive and in use and scale.

00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:24.949
We we understand and in the comp plan, we want our

00:47:24.949 --> 00:47:27.929
neighborhoods to have commercial services that day to day

00:47:27.929 --> 00:47:29.480
type shopping near them.

00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:33.260
You know, the the the dry cleaners and the drug store and

00:47:33.260 --> 00:47:35.480
and maybe a doctor's office.

00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:37.789
But we but we realize that there are some commercial uses

00:47:37.789 --> 00:47:40.219
that really are incompatible with single family residential

00:47:40.219 --> 00:47:44.050
, something like vehicle repair where it would create a lot

00:47:44.050 --> 00:47:47.840
of noise and potential potential nuisance for that single

00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:48.480
family neighborhood.

00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:52.670
So so that's why we we we looked at NRMU because it does

00:47:52.670 --> 00:47:57.230
sort of limit the scale of development of some commercial

00:47:57.230 --> 00:48:01.440
uses as well as limit some of those more high intensive

00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:02.480
commercial uses.

00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:06.670
The intent of NRMU really is to be located near those

00:48:06.670 --> 00:48:11.349
residential areas to provide those necessary services for

00:48:11.349 --> 00:48:13.480
those neighborhoods.

00:48:13.480 --> 00:48:16.840
There is a flood zone on the back. Of course, you know,

00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:20.199
they would have to meet any requirements associated with

00:48:20.199 --> 00:48:22.480
that once they get to development.

00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:27.500
Just just wanted to show you where that that flood area is

00:48:27.500 --> 00:48:32.480
and how it takes up that that open space lot adjacent.

00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:37.900
So public notification was sent out for the the the

00:48:37.900 --> 00:48:39.480
proposal.

00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:43.929
Thirty five notices were sent in the 200 foot buffer. We've

00:48:43.929 --> 00:48:48.480
received five in opposition and zero in favor of the NRMU.

00:48:48.480 --> 00:48:51.500
Now, I want to caution you and Commissioner Beck and I

00:48:51.500 --> 00:48:54.480
talked earlier today about this in your packet.

00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:58.889
There was there were some notifications that were sent

00:48:58.889 --> 00:49:03.800
regarding a rezoning to maybe a higher intensity commercial

00:49:03.800 --> 00:49:04.480
use.

00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:07.179
So I wanted you all to have all of the available

00:49:07.179 --> 00:49:10.480
information that the city got from the residents.

00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:14.820
So that's why in your packet you had you had some responses

00:49:14.820 --> 00:49:19.070
from neighbors that were in association with an already

00:49:19.070 --> 00:49:20.480
five X to a CMG.

00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:23.780
However, they've actually dialed back that commercial use

00:49:23.780 --> 00:49:26.690
to that NRMU because they wanted to make sure that they

00:49:26.690 --> 00:49:29.480
were compatible with those residential areas.

00:49:29.480 --> 00:49:33.389
So you received some additional responses on your table

00:49:33.389 --> 00:49:36.480
that were in association with that NRMU.

00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:40.039
So that way you have all of the information that the city

00:49:40.039 --> 00:49:43.630
that the city received in terms of response from the

00:49:43.630 --> 00:49:44.480
neighborhood.

00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:46.480
McCall on staff. Richard has a comment.

00:49:46.480 --> 00:49:50.900
I just wanted to add, if you recall, this item was on the

00:49:50.900 --> 00:49:55.250
last agenda and we had continued it to this one for this

00:49:55.250 --> 00:49:56.480
very reason.

00:49:56.480 --> 00:50:01.489
Commissioner Sullivan. I realize that there is a buffer on

00:50:01.489 --> 00:50:06.190
the east side, but I'm concerned about the buffer on the

00:50:06.190 --> 00:50:07.480
south side.

00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:12.429
Any idea what those people thought were going in at the

00:50:12.429 --> 00:50:15.480
time they bought their homes?

00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:17.789
I don't know what was told to them at the time they bought

00:50:17.789 --> 00:50:18.480
their homes.

00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:22.250
I think one of the responses in front of you, the neighbor

00:50:22.250 --> 00:50:24.989
did say that they were told that that was going to remain

00:50:24.989 --> 00:50:25.480
open.

00:50:25.480 --> 00:50:28.480
So I really don't know what they were told at the time.

00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:31.440
I can tell you that the Denton Development Code does have

00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:33.480
requirements in terms of buffers.

00:50:33.480 --> 00:50:37.130
So a commercial use adjacent to a single family use would

00:50:37.130 --> 00:50:40.789
be required to put in a 15 foot buffer that included a

00:50:40.789 --> 00:50:43.480
certain number of trees and shrubs.

00:50:43.480 --> 00:50:46.829
Any development would also be required to conform to any

00:50:46.829 --> 00:50:49.920
light and glare requirements in the code, any tree

00:50:49.920 --> 00:50:52.920
preservation as well as landscape screening, parking lot

00:50:52.920 --> 00:50:53.480
screening.

00:50:53.480 --> 00:50:58.480
So they would be required to have some design interventions

00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:02.420
in the development to try to ensure compatibility with

00:51:02.420 --> 00:51:04.480
those residential.

00:51:04.480 --> 00:51:08.030
I guess my concern is that the only way that they could

00:51:08.030 --> 00:51:11.480
service the people closest to them is to come all the way

00:51:11.480 --> 00:51:16.480
24/99 to Robinson to Pine Hills to then do all of that.

00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:22.389
And I just don't see what kind of a service industry other

00:51:22.389 --> 00:51:27.480
than Domino's Pizza maybe would want to travel that each

00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:30.480
and every time they want to service.

00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:34.239
Or if their customers are coming the other way, how are

00:51:34.239 --> 00:51:41.070
they going to get from the east side of 24/99 down Robinson

00:51:41.070 --> 00:51:43.480
and now come across to that area?

00:51:43.480 --> 00:51:46.670
I don't know what streets are going to be like and so I'm

00:51:46.670 --> 00:51:47.480
not sure.

00:51:47.480 --> 00:51:51.030
That's a really good point and part of what we looked at is

00:51:51.030 --> 00:51:54.739
that this commercial area didn't provide direct access to

00:51:54.739 --> 00:51:56.480
those residential areas.

00:51:56.480 --> 00:51:59.840
So it did provide that seclusion from those residential

00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:00.480
areas.

00:52:00.480 --> 00:52:03.719
If you'll look at text dot plans, you'll see that Pine

00:52:03.719 --> 00:52:07.550
Hills here does actually will connect to 24/99 in this

00:52:07.550 --> 00:52:08.480
location.

00:52:08.480 --> 00:52:13.070
So it will provide some connectivity for those residential

00:52:13.070 --> 00:52:17.480
areas if it ended up being some sort of convenience use.

00:52:17.480 --> 00:52:20.360
I know the applicant spoke in their neighborhood meeting

00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:23.480
that they were looking at more office uses.

00:52:23.480 --> 00:52:27.920
But retail is permitted in the zoning district so it could

00:52:27.920 --> 00:52:32.099
be a retail type use and there is some connectivity in this

00:52:32.099 --> 00:52:36.480
area to get neighborhoods in there.

00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:40.250
While you have the map up, I know Jim Jenks had to step out

00:52:40.250 --> 00:52:40.480
.

00:52:40.480 --> 00:52:43.360
Would you mind getting with him between now and when we get

00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:46.119
in public if they're going to be allowed to have any curb

00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:48.480
cuts out there in that center divider?

00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:51.840
Because according to that map, it doesn't look like there's

00:52:51.840 --> 00:52:54.730
any left turn lanes on the southbound to be able to get

00:52:54.730 --> 00:52:55.480
access.

00:52:55.480 --> 00:52:58.179
I don't think there is, but I'll confirm. I think it would

00:52:58.179 --> 00:53:00.480
just be a right in, right out at this location.

00:53:00.480 --> 00:53:01.480
Okay.

00:53:01.480 --> 00:53:03.480
But I'll check for you.

00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:04.480
Great. Thank you.

00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:05.480
Commissioner Smith, did you have a question?

00:53:05.480 --> 00:53:08.150
Yes, thank you, Chair. You did say that they did have a

00:53:08.150 --> 00:53:09.480
community meeting?

00:53:09.480 --> 00:53:10.480
They did, yes, sir.

00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:13.480
Okay, gotcha. Is the applicant going to be present tonight?

00:53:13.480 --> 00:53:14.480
He is supposed to be, yes, sir.

00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:22.480
Okay, gotcha. Thank you. I'll ask him then.

00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:23.480
Any other question?

00:53:23.480 --> 00:53:25.480
Commissioner Beck.

00:53:25.480 --> 00:53:29.539
Thank you, Chair. You threw me your presentation, though. I

00:53:29.539 --> 00:53:31.480
wanted to let you at least finish. Are you at that point?

00:53:31.480 --> 00:53:33.480
Yes, sir. I'm done. Absolutely.

00:53:33.480 --> 00:53:39.389
Okay. Just to better visualize this for me and anybody else

00:53:39.389 --> 00:53:43.940
, 2499 is that part that currently is developed, and it's

00:53:43.940 --> 00:53:44.480
four lanes.

00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:48.480
Two lanes going each way until it switches to road.

00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:50.400
So are you saying when we cross over, it says in the

00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:52.670
information here, there's going to be a six lane, three

00:53:52.670 --> 00:53:53.480
lanes in each way.

00:53:53.480 --> 00:53:56.829
So it changes at that point. And this is a road that goes

00:53:56.829 --> 00:53:59.480
up and eventually connects to State School Road.

00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:00.480
Yes, sir.

00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:02.409
So we can see what that's going to look like, that whole

00:54:02.409 --> 00:54:04.480
area is going to look like if you go up to the State School

00:54:04.480 --> 00:54:07.480
right now and see anybody that's been up there.

00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:10.780
It's wide. Yeah. And it's going to haul a lot of traffic

00:54:10.780 --> 00:54:11.480
through there.

00:54:11.480 --> 00:54:16.539
So I understand residents' concerns about this being

00:54:16.539 --> 00:54:18.480
developed for commercial.

00:54:18.480 --> 00:54:22.480
Are we, if we do approve this, when it comes back around to

00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:26.340
us, then we can, because I'm concerned that you can put

00:54:26.340 --> 00:54:30.480
hotels in and NRMU, and I think residents would be too.

00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:36.409
You can put clubs and other things that would probably be

00:54:36.409 --> 00:54:39.480
unsuitable for that area.

00:54:39.480 --> 00:54:41.789
But there are other things like laundering mats, you can go

00:54:41.789 --> 00:54:44.070
in there, things that are quieter, low key and stuff like

00:54:44.070 --> 00:54:44.480
that.

00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:48.940
So will we as a commission be able to be a little selective

00:54:48.940 --> 00:54:53.659
there as to the type of commercial enterprises that go in

00:54:53.659 --> 00:54:54.480
there?

00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:57.480
I'll call on legal to give a response to that.

00:54:57.480 --> 00:55:01.090
I just wanted to remind everyone that this is one of the

00:55:01.090 --> 00:55:04.889
few times where you can actually use your overlay because

00:55:04.889 --> 00:55:07.480
it's an NRMU and it's a budding residential area.

00:55:07.480 --> 00:55:11.239
So we have that mixed use overlay that we can use and we've

00:55:11.239 --> 00:55:14.480
already provided notice for it in the agenda.

00:55:14.480 --> 00:55:17.909
We do that now. So if you want to remove uses from the

00:55:17.909 --> 00:55:21.480
zoning category, you can do that with an overlay.

00:55:21.480 --> 00:55:24.219
And when would we, at what time would we be able to do that

00:55:24.219 --> 00:55:25.480
? When you do your motion.

00:55:25.480 --> 00:55:32.480
Tonight? Okay. Thank you.

00:55:32.480 --> 00:55:35.480
I think that's it, yes.

00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:39.070
Any other questions for Julie on this item? Commissioner

00:55:39.070 --> 00:55:39.480
Smith.

00:55:39.480 --> 00:55:41.820
Thank you, Chair. You said earlier, you said it's at a

00:55:41.820 --> 00:55:42.480
floodplain.

00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:48.710
Well, there's a portion of the lot. This is schematic. This

00:55:48.710 --> 00:55:50.480
isn't based upon it on the ground.

00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:55.480
This is really just sort of generally where that would be.

00:55:55.480 --> 00:56:02.480
Got it. Thank you.

00:56:02.480 --> 00:56:06.480
Move us on to agenda item D.

00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:11.480
All right. This is PDA 17.6 CARMAX.

00:56:11.480 --> 00:56:14.630
So this request before you is to consider approval of a

00:56:14.630 --> 00:56:19.760
detailed plan for Plan Development 12, that's PD 12, to

00:56:19.760 --> 00:56:24.880
depict a new or used car sales lot on approximately 7.11

00:56:24.880 --> 00:56:28.480
acres out of a 34.4 acre tract.

00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:31.829
So the subject property is generally located adjacent to I-

00:56:31.829 --> 00:56:35.349
35. It's south of state school, so we're still in the

00:56:35.349 --> 00:56:37.480
general location we were before.

00:56:37.480 --> 00:56:41.460
The area outlined in yellow is that 34 acre tract. The red

00:56:41.460 --> 00:56:49.489
is very conceptually where the proposed development would

00:56:49.489 --> 00:56:50.480
go.

00:56:50.480 --> 00:56:54.849
So the Denton plan calls this area regional mixed use. The

00:56:54.849 --> 00:56:58.960
intent is to serve as a regional destination. These are

00:56:58.960 --> 00:57:01.480
primarily found along our I-35 corridors.

00:57:01.480 --> 00:57:06.400
So it brings people to the area and either from outside the

00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:10.480
city of Denton or within the city of Denton.

00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:15.880
And the proposal does meet this future land use designation

00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:17.480
, the car lot.

00:57:17.480 --> 00:57:21.739
So let's talk about the current zoning as well as the

00:57:21.739 --> 00:57:23.480
adjacent zoning.

00:57:23.480 --> 00:57:30.480
So this is in PD 12. And PDs in the city of Denton were,

00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:32.840
our current development code doesn't actually have plan

00:57:32.840 --> 00:57:37.780
developments except for 15 that were left over from the pre

00:57:37.780 --> 00:57:39.480
2002 code.

00:57:39.480 --> 00:57:44.590
And the pre 2002 code, it was the 1991 code, it was a plan

00:57:44.590 --> 00:57:48.019
developments were a two step process. The first process was

00:57:48.019 --> 00:57:48.480
the concept plan,

00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:51.829
which outlined the boundaries of the plan development and

00:57:51.829 --> 00:57:55.059
the uses and the general areas of where those uses would go

00:57:55.059 --> 00:57:57.480
also design considerations often.

00:57:57.480 --> 00:58:03.949
So this was PD 12, it was approved in 87 and it did permit

00:58:03.949 --> 00:58:09.440
the use. At that time they called the use new or use car

00:58:09.440 --> 00:58:13.480
sales lot in open and that was permitted.

00:58:13.480 --> 00:58:17.690
The surrounding zoning includes RCCD adjacent to the

00:58:17.690 --> 00:58:22.480
subject property and those are developed with similar uses,

00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:23.480
vehicle sales.

00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:29.170
RCCN is to the north also developed with similar uses. And

00:58:29.170 --> 00:58:35.480
then we have some vehicle sales to the south within the PD.

00:58:35.480 --> 00:58:40.739
There are properties, single family properties developed to

00:58:40.739 --> 00:58:43.480
the west of the subject property.

00:58:43.480 --> 00:58:46.559
And then across the highway there's also some single family

00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:50.480
development. So that's really what's surrounding the area.

00:58:50.480 --> 00:58:55.730
Commissioner Sullivan. Just to be clear, because in my map

00:58:55.730 --> 00:58:58.480
I don't show the red box. Oh yes you don't.

00:58:58.480 --> 00:59:01.139
This is just for our- So we're only talking about the red

00:59:01.139 --> 00:59:06.480
box, we're not talking about the black box or whatever.

00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:11.539
It includes the entire black box, but their detailed plan

00:59:11.539 --> 00:59:16.690
is only for the red box. And here's where the difference in

00:59:16.690 --> 00:59:21.480
our straight zoning versus plan development lies.

00:59:21.480 --> 00:59:25.320
So in a straight zoning we would be talking about should it

00:59:25.320 --> 00:59:28.480
be RCCN, RCCD, or whatever one of our zoning districts.

00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:31.659
And then it could develop in accordance with that zoning

00:59:31.659 --> 00:59:32.480
district.

00:59:32.480 --> 00:59:35.639
PDs are a little different in that what they're really

00:59:35.639 --> 00:59:39.110
essentially doing with this plan development is getting

00:59:39.110 --> 00:59:42.480
approval of a site plan for their development.

00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:45.260
Because we're really now looking at the details of the site

00:59:45.260 --> 00:59:48.480
. The use is permitted under the PD.

00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:51.829
Now we're looking at just how the site develops. And it

00:59:51.829 --> 00:59:54.869
will have to develop in accordance with whatever is

00:59:54.869 --> 01:00:00.480
approved or denied by virtue of this public hearing.

01:00:00.480 --> 01:00:04.670
So the site plan, the landscape plan, and the elevations

01:00:04.670 --> 01:00:07.760
that are in your backup, and we'll talk about the site plan

01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:09.480
and landscape plan in the presentation.

01:00:09.480 --> 01:00:12.369
Those are what would be approved and it would have to

01:00:12.369 --> 01:00:14.480
develop in accordance with that.

01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:19.550
So my concerns with the black line backing up to the houses

01:00:19.550 --> 01:00:22.480
on Waterford is nonexistent.

01:00:22.480 --> 01:00:25.480
Because we're only talking about the red box.

01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:29.980
Yes, sir. And if they did want to expand their use into the

01:00:29.980 --> 01:00:33.860
part that is beyond the red box, they would have to come

01:00:33.860 --> 01:00:36.480
back again and amend their detail plan.

01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:37.980
That's probably the way I should have said it at the

01:00:37.980 --> 01:00:38.480
beginning.

01:00:38.480 --> 01:00:40.480
It's almost similar to what we just did with Razor Ranch.

01:00:40.480 --> 01:00:41.480
Yes.

01:00:41.480 --> 01:00:43.300
Where we kind of set the boundary of the whole area and

01:00:43.300 --> 01:00:45.480
then we're sort of looking at these individual parcels.

01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:47.539
Almost the exact same thing, just a different, calling it

01:00:47.539 --> 01:00:48.480
something different.

01:00:48.480 --> 01:00:49.480
Commissioner Ellis.

01:00:49.480 --> 01:00:53.480
Thank you, Chair. And that's already planned.

01:00:53.480 --> 01:00:55.880
That's already, like, the black is, it's already been

01:00:55.880 --> 01:00:56.480
approved.

01:00:56.480 --> 01:00:58.480
It's been in place, correct?

01:00:58.480 --> 01:01:01.480
Yes.

01:01:01.480 --> 01:01:05.030
So because we don't have planned developments in the 2002

01:01:05.030 --> 01:01:08.480
code, we look at the 1991 code to review these projects.

01:01:08.480 --> 01:01:12.239
And there are criteria for approval for detail plans in the

01:01:12.239 --> 01:01:13.480
1991 code.

01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:17.690
And just generally that the proposal must comply with the

01:01:17.690 --> 01:01:21.400
concept plan, that it must provide for compatible

01:01:21.400 --> 01:01:25.469
arrangements of buildings that would not adversely affect

01:01:25.469 --> 01:01:27.480
adjoining properties outside of the PD.

01:01:27.480 --> 01:01:30.480
That it would provide adequate circulation of traffic.

01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:32.789
And that would be in substantial compliance with the city

01:01:32.789 --> 01:01:33.480
regulations.

01:01:33.480 --> 01:01:36.980
Staff has reviewed their request in association with the

01:01:36.980 --> 01:01:40.269
criteria for approval and we believe that it meets the

01:01:40.269 --> 01:01:43.510
criteria for approval and we'll go over some of these

01:01:43.510 --> 01:01:44.480
things now.

01:01:44.480 --> 01:01:48.250
So first of all, we'll just take a look at what the concept

01:01:48.250 --> 01:01:49.480
plan called for.

01:01:49.480 --> 01:01:52.119
And there were a couple maps in the concept plan and they

01:01:52.119 --> 01:01:54.739
're a little hard to read, so we're going to do our best

01:01:54.739 --> 01:01:55.480
together.

01:01:55.480 --> 01:01:59.480
But so here is the general area we're talking about.

01:01:59.480 --> 01:02:03.750
Here was the concept plan and the yellow circle is about

01:02:03.750 --> 01:02:05.480
where the property is.

01:02:05.480 --> 01:02:11.090
And I can tell because here is the city of Denton municipal

01:02:11.090 --> 01:02:12.480
boundary.

01:02:12.480 --> 01:02:15.480
And then you can tell this little corner is right here.

01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:20.480
So it's in this general location.

01:02:20.480 --> 01:02:22.480
Yes sir, yes sir.

01:02:22.480 --> 01:02:25.829
And this was in a commercial shopping area which permitted

01:02:25.829 --> 01:02:26.480
the use.

01:02:26.480 --> 01:02:29.500
So that's the concept plan and that's what laid out the

01:02:29.500 --> 01:02:31.480
uses in this area for this use.

01:02:31.480 --> 01:02:33.480
And then we'll look at the site plan.

01:02:33.480 --> 01:02:38.070
So this is kind of a just a zoomed in part of the site plan

01:02:38.070 --> 01:02:38.480
.

01:02:38.480 --> 01:02:42.090
So they're proposing an approximately 7400 square foot

01:02:42.090 --> 01:02:45.480
building made of or constructed with masonry materials.

01:02:45.480 --> 01:02:49.239
They're proposing, and that's in the yellow, they're

01:02:49.239 --> 01:02:53.480
proposing a one access point to the I-35 frontage road.

01:02:53.480 --> 01:02:58.380
This is the sale staging area here and it will be screened

01:02:58.380 --> 01:03:02.480
from public view with a six foot masonry wall.

01:03:02.480 --> 01:03:06.440
The code also in subchapter 13 has requirements related to

01:03:06.440 --> 01:03:07.480
light and glare,

01:03:07.480 --> 01:03:11.289
which they would conform with when they get to the building

01:03:11.289 --> 01:03:12.480
permit stage.

01:03:12.480 --> 01:03:17.739
And they are also agreed to making sure that those public

01:03:17.739 --> 01:03:21.480
access address speakers would be faced in a way

01:03:21.480 --> 01:03:26.480
that would minimize any impacts to adjacent properties.

01:03:26.480 --> 01:03:28.480
This is their landscape plan.

01:03:28.480 --> 01:03:32.739
They're proposing trees and shrubs along I-35 to present

01:03:32.739 --> 01:03:35.480
well to the I-35 frontage road.

01:03:35.480 --> 01:03:41.230
They're also proposing additional tree canopy to be planted

01:03:41.230 --> 01:03:45.480
71,000 square feet at maturity.

01:03:45.480 --> 01:03:49.130
And that they're also sort of back loaded those trees right

01:03:49.130 --> 01:03:53.519
here adjacent to those residential areas to try to mitigate

01:03:53.519 --> 01:03:58.769
any impacts that any light that would or noise that would

01:03:58.769 --> 01:04:00.480
come from the site.

01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:02.480
Public notification was sent out.

01:04:02.480 --> 01:04:07.280
We've received two responses in favor and three in

01:04:07.280 --> 01:04:08.480
opposition.

01:04:08.480 --> 01:04:11.909
And I will, staff does recommend approval of the request as

01:04:11.909 --> 01:04:14.480
it's consistent with the future land use.

01:04:14.480 --> 01:04:17.829
It's compatible with the surrounding property and it meets

01:04:17.829 --> 01:04:21.480
the criteria for approval for detail plans in the 91 code.

01:04:21.480 --> 01:04:23.480
Can I stand for any questions?

01:04:23.480 --> 01:04:24.480
Commissioner Sullivan.

01:04:24.480 --> 01:04:27.829
I think in your presentation, if you would make it abund

01:04:27.829 --> 01:04:31.900
antly clear that you're talking about the red line and not

01:04:31.900 --> 01:04:32.480
the black,

01:04:32.480 --> 01:04:36.480
because I think every one of these people who are opposed

01:04:36.480 --> 01:04:39.880
sees the yellow line coming up next to Waterford and they

01:04:39.880 --> 01:04:43.480
're going, whoa, Jack, back it up a little bit.

01:04:43.480 --> 01:04:47.360
And so I think that needs to be clarified that we're not

01:04:47.360 --> 01:04:53.190
talking about that hole in your map here, yellow, but in

01:04:53.190 --> 01:04:54.480
the red.

01:04:54.480 --> 01:04:57.480
Yes, sir. I will. I will. I'll do that.

01:04:57.480 --> 01:04:58.480
Thank you very much.

01:04:58.480 --> 01:04:59.480
You bet.

01:04:59.480 --> 01:05:00.480
Commissioner Beck.

01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:01.480
Thank you, Chair.

01:05:01.480 --> 01:05:04.909
So down the road, because this is a planned development

01:05:04.909 --> 01:05:08.599
area, things that would probably, but up close to these

01:05:08.599 --> 01:05:11.969
neighborhoods would be something more amenable than a high

01:05:11.969 --> 01:05:13.480
traffic business.

01:05:13.480 --> 01:05:16.480
I think all of that area is in floodplain anyway.

01:05:16.480 --> 01:05:19.480
Yeah. So here's the floodplain.

01:05:19.480 --> 01:05:22.269
So as you can see, this is probably even better look at

01:05:22.269 --> 01:05:25.960
where, really where they're proposing, because they're

01:05:25.960 --> 01:05:30.480
trying to stay out of what are some natural conditions.

01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:33.440
Okay, so there isn't much room for any other development

01:05:33.440 --> 01:05:36.480
because of the floodplain unless they do some extensive.

01:05:36.480 --> 01:05:39.730
I would say with any amount of engineering and money, you

01:05:39.730 --> 01:05:42.480
could probably make a lot of things happen.

01:05:42.480 --> 01:05:43.480
But, yeah.

01:05:43.480 --> 01:05:47.480
Okay. So that's kind of a safeguard.

01:05:47.480 --> 01:05:50.639
Would that be you then as a safeguard for these residents

01:05:50.639 --> 01:05:52.480
that they're worried about?

01:05:52.480 --> 01:05:55.610
I would ask C staff, but I don't think you can do anything

01:05:55.610 --> 01:05:57.480
at the floodplain like that.

01:05:57.480 --> 01:06:00.480
Thanks.

01:06:00.480 --> 01:06:04.480
Okay. Any other questions on this item?

01:06:04.480 --> 01:06:12.179
I'm going to call a break at 10 after six and let's try to

01:06:12.179 --> 01:06:20.159
grab something to eat real quick and I'm going to visit

01:06:20.159 --> 01:06:23.480
with Roman right quick.

01:06:23.480 --> 01:06:30.349
To our agenda item five, I think it's E, four E, excuse me,

01:06:30.349 --> 01:06:33.480
four E. I'll call on Roman for presentation.

01:06:33.480 --> 01:06:36.739
Thank you, Chairman. I just want to give you all an outline

01:06:36.739 --> 01:06:37.480
of this.

01:06:37.480 --> 01:06:41.400
This is ordinance revisions of the historic preservation

01:06:41.400 --> 01:06:42.480
ordinances.

01:06:42.480 --> 01:06:45.710
The work for this, these revisions began in June and July

01:06:45.710 --> 01:06:48.480
of last year with some community meetings.

01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:53.110
And so I'm just going to actually I've got all that in here

01:06:53.110 --> 01:06:54.139
. So the updated timeline of what happened here back in

01:06:54.139 --> 01:06:55.989
April of 2016, we went to the Landmark Commission and City

01:06:55.989 --> 01:07:01.929
Council and briefed them and received input to go forward

01:07:01.929 --> 01:07:03.480
with revising the code.

01:07:03.480 --> 01:07:08.760
We had meetings in June and July with the three historic

01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:13.480
districts and got their input about the code.

01:07:13.480 --> 01:07:16.909
And then we went in September to the Landmark Commission,

01:07:16.909 --> 01:07:20.130
which asked for a month to look at the documents and then

01:07:20.130 --> 01:07:22.480
unanimously recommended approval.

01:07:22.480 --> 01:07:27.949
It's not on your staff report there. It was eight to zero

01:07:27.949 --> 01:07:29.480
on the approval.

01:07:29.480 --> 01:07:33.849
The major changes are it's just a thorough house cleaning

01:07:33.849 --> 01:07:37.090
of the ordinances, which were really began, they were

01:07:37.090 --> 01:07:40.480
really drafted in 86 and then amended over the years.

01:07:40.480 --> 01:07:43.550
And through the good work of our staff and the legal

01:07:43.550 --> 01:07:47.480
department, we're presenting a much more refined ordinance,

01:07:47.480 --> 01:07:51.360
which can be easily integrated into the development code

01:07:51.360 --> 01:07:52.480
amendments.

01:07:52.480 --> 01:07:55.480
The multiple references to certificate of appropriateness.

01:07:55.480 --> 01:07:58.389
There were like five sections that have that. That's all in

01:07:58.389 --> 01:07:59.480
one section now.

01:07:59.480 --> 01:08:03.239
The definitions have been aggregated into a section of the

01:08:03.239 --> 01:08:05.480
city code that has definitions.

01:08:05.480 --> 01:08:13.869
Criteria for designation has been clarified and all proced

01:08:13.869 --> 01:08:18.020
urally oriented subsections were combined into a different

01:08:18.020 --> 01:08:19.479
procedure section.

01:08:19.479 --> 01:08:24.399
Substantive changes were recognition of the Belle Avenue

01:08:24.399 --> 01:08:26.479
Conservation District.

01:08:26.479 --> 01:08:27.479
Commissioner Ellis.

01:08:27.479 --> 01:08:30.479
Thank you, Chair.

01:08:30.479 --> 01:08:33.399
Roman does changing that from a conservation district to

01:08:33.399 --> 01:08:36.510
historic district have any immediate impact on the property

01:08:36.510 --> 01:08:37.479
owners there?

01:08:37.479 --> 01:08:40.609
No, it doesn't. There's an additional change in the

01:08:40.609 --> 01:08:44.270
ordinance itself with respect to a differentiation between

01:08:44.270 --> 01:08:47.479
historic districts and conservation districts.

01:08:47.479 --> 01:08:50.479
When that district was created as a conservation district,

01:08:50.479 --> 01:08:53.720
the way we treated him was practically identical to the way

01:08:53.720 --> 01:08:55.479
we treated historic districts.

01:08:55.479 --> 01:08:59.529
With these amendments now, if you have a conservation

01:08:59.529 --> 01:09:02.630
district, it truly can be called historic district light

01:09:02.630 --> 01:09:07.029
because the only items you have to take to the Landmark

01:09:07.029 --> 01:09:10.479
Commission would be demolitions and new construction.

01:09:10.479 --> 01:09:13.909
Any other request in a future conservation district can be

01:09:13.909 --> 01:09:17.479
approved administratively by the preservation officer.

01:09:17.479 --> 01:09:20.579
So it's a way for a neighborhood that says we kind of want

01:09:20.579 --> 01:09:23.479
to preserve the way this neighborhood looks.

01:09:23.479 --> 01:09:26.109
If you're going to tear down one of our buildings or build

01:09:26.109 --> 01:09:28.840
a new building, we do want the Landmark Commission to look

01:09:28.840 --> 01:09:29.479
at that.

01:09:29.479 --> 01:09:31.850
Anything else we want it to ride through quickly. And so

01:09:31.850 --> 01:09:34.479
that is a differentiation in this code.

01:09:34.479 --> 01:09:38.909
So for the district there, it has no difference other than

01:09:38.909 --> 01:09:42.479
the name and whatever that comes with that.

01:09:42.479 --> 01:09:45.760
So this is the way that looks in terms of seeing it struct

01:09:45.760 --> 01:09:46.479
urally.

01:09:46.479 --> 01:09:49.069
What happened on their left is the original sections or the

01:09:49.069 --> 01:09:51.479
existing sections on your right is what you'll have.

01:09:51.479 --> 01:09:56.010
So it's a little shorter and just a little more precise and

01:09:56.010 --> 01:09:57.479
easier to read.

01:09:57.479 --> 01:10:01.479
The minor changes are here.

01:10:01.479 --> 01:10:04.479
The definitions that we that we have that are being moved.

01:10:04.479 --> 01:10:07.909
And then on this item, this section 35, four, three, with

01:10:07.909 --> 01:10:10.729
respect to the Landmark Commission, it's real simple

01:10:10.729 --> 01:10:11.479
changes.

01:10:11.479 --> 01:10:15.779
We're changing chairman to chair and we're changing that a

01:10:15.779 --> 01:10:19.729
preservation plan will not be created by the Landmark

01:10:19.729 --> 01:10:23.710
Commission itself, but that they will bless that that

01:10:23.710 --> 01:10:26.420
creation of a plan because they wouldn't be creating that

01:10:26.420 --> 01:10:27.479
plan on their own.

01:10:27.479 --> 01:10:31.460
These are the input posters that I used in the community

01:10:31.460 --> 01:10:32.479
meetings.

01:10:32.479 --> 01:10:36.130
We had questions on fencing and landscaping and painting

01:10:36.130 --> 01:10:39.649
and administrative authority and asked the people who

01:10:39.649 --> 01:10:42.829
attended the different meetings to vote on what they

01:10:42.829 --> 01:10:45.199
whether they wanted administrative approval or to go to the

01:10:45.199 --> 01:10:47.750
Landmark Commission, where they wanted people to look at

01:10:47.750 --> 01:10:48.479
the paint color.

01:10:48.479 --> 01:10:53.479
So it was a good how we got the input and.

01:10:53.479 --> 01:10:58.140
The next steps are we're here today and based on what you

01:10:58.140 --> 01:11:01.479
recommend them will go to City Council.

01:11:01.479 --> 01:11:04.479
And take any questions.

01:11:04.479 --> 01:11:05.479
Commissioner Smith.

01:11:05.479 --> 01:11:08.380
So the changes have no real real impact whatsoever on any

01:11:08.380 --> 01:11:11.479
development done in those overlay districts correct.

01:11:11.479 --> 01:11:12.479
That's correct.

01:11:12.479 --> 01:11:12.479
Okay.

01:11:12.479 --> 01:11:15.479
Not that wouldn't just just clerical cleanup.

01:11:15.479 --> 01:11:18.479
If you're doing a new construction in any of the districts,

01:11:18.479 --> 01:11:20.479
you'll be required to get a certificate of.

01:11:20.479 --> 01:11:22.479
Of course, but no, no, no changing.

01:11:22.479 --> 01:11:32.479
No real big changes other than just it's clear.

01:11:32.479 --> 01:11:33.479
Thank you.

01:11:33.479 --> 01:11:35.479
Right.

01:11:35.479 --> 01:11:36.479
Wonderful.

01:11:36.479 --> 01:11:38.510
We'll look forward to going through it a little more detail

01:11:38.510 --> 01:11:39.479
in our public session.

01:11:39.479 --> 01:11:41.479
Thanks for the abbreviated.

01:11:41.479 --> 01:11:42.479
Thanks for at least getting through it.

01:11:42.479 --> 01:11:47.479
Let us take a look at it before we run out of time.

01:11:47.479 --> 01:11:52.869
So with that, no questions, I will close our work session

01:11:52.869 --> 01:11:57.109
at six twenty two and we will try to reconvene as close as

01:11:57.109 --> 01:12:00.479
we can at six thirty and council chambers.

01:12:00.479 --> 01:12:13.479
Thank you.

01:12:13.479 --> 01:12:16.069
Good evening and welcome to the city of Denton planning and

01:12:16.069 --> 01:12:19.479
zoning commission meeting for November the eighth, 2017.

01:12:19.479 --> 01:12:23.239
This meeting has been duly posted and we do have a quorum

01:12:23.239 --> 01:12:26.479
present and I will call us to order at six forty.

01:12:26.479 --> 01:12:30.510
Our first first item of business will be to stand and give

01:12:30.510 --> 01:12:39.479
the pledge to the U.S. and the Texas flag.

01:12:39.479 --> 01:12:43.239
To the United States of America and to the republic for

01:12:43.239 --> 01:12:48.250
which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with

01:12:48.250 --> 01:12:52.479
liberty and justice for all.

01:12:52.479 --> 01:13:10.260
one state, one God, one invisible.

01:13:10.260 --> 01:13:12.640
And we'll move us to our consent agenda.

01:13:12.640 --> 01:13:19.880
And we have one item it's going to be item B, FP17-0023.

01:13:19.880 --> 01:13:23.800
That item is going to be moved to our items for individual

01:13:23.800 --> 01:13:25.680
consideration and it will become

01:13:25.680 --> 01:13:28.760
3B.

01:13:28.760 --> 01:13:32.260
Other than that clarification and change, the chair would

01:13:32.260 --> 01:13:33.840
entertain a motion for the

01:13:33.840 --> 01:13:37.119
consent agenda.

01:13:37.119 --> 01:13:38.119
Commissioner Smith.

01:13:38.119 --> 01:13:41.109
A motion to accept with moving item B to items for

01:13:41.109 --> 01:13:43.159
individual consideration.

01:13:43.159 --> 01:13:44.159
Good.

01:13:44.159 --> 01:13:45.159
Go ahead.

01:13:45.159 --> 01:13:46.159
You have something?

01:13:46.159 --> 01:13:47.159
I say correctly.

01:13:47.159 --> 01:13:51.439
A motion for the consent agenda.

01:13:51.439 --> 01:13:54.630
A motion to accept consent agenda with moving item B to

01:13:54.630 --> 01:13:57.119
items for individual consideration.

01:13:57.119 --> 01:13:59.760
Thank you for repeating that.

01:13:59.760 --> 01:14:01.840
We're all on the same page now.

01:14:01.840 --> 01:14:02.840
Commissioner Ellis.

01:14:02.840 --> 01:14:03.840
Thank you, chair.

01:14:03.840 --> 01:14:04.840
Second.

01:14:04.840 --> 01:14:05.840
Okay.

01:14:05.840 --> 01:14:09.390
We have a first and a second for approval with the change

01:14:09.390 --> 01:14:11.600
of moving item 2B to our individual

01:14:11.600 --> 01:14:14.199
consideration and that becomes 3B.

01:14:14.199 --> 01:14:19.670
Any other discussion or clarification on the consent agenda

01:14:19.670 --> 01:14:20.039
?

01:14:20.039 --> 01:14:30.319
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

01:14:30.319 --> 01:14:33.239
That motion carries 7 to 0.

01:14:33.239 --> 01:14:38.770
That will move us to our items for individual consideration

01:14:38.770 --> 01:14:39.159
.

01:14:39.159 --> 01:15:02.800
I will call on Haley for presentation of SP17-0051.

01:15:02.800 --> 01:15:04.720
Good evening.

01:15:04.720 --> 01:15:07.180
This request is for approval of a site plan for an

01:15:07.180 --> 01:15:09.359
entertainment center to be constructed

01:15:09.359 --> 01:15:12.319
within the razor ranch south RR2 district.

01:15:12.319 --> 01:15:16.239
It's located on lot 17, block A of the razor ranch within

01:15:16.239 --> 01:15:18.359
the razor ranch town center.

01:15:18.359 --> 01:15:21.640
This area was recently rezoned to bring it from the south

01:15:21.640 --> 01:15:23.479
mixed use district to the south

01:15:23.479 --> 01:15:25.000
RR2 district.

01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:29.229
The approximate location is shown here on the zoning map

01:15:29.229 --> 01:15:30.680
outlined in red.

01:15:30.680 --> 01:15:33.539
The property is about 3.7 acres.

01:15:33.539 --> 01:15:36.439
It is located north of the future extension of panhandle.

01:15:36.439 --> 01:15:39.399
You can see on the map here the general location in yellow.

01:15:39.399 --> 01:15:43.590
It's just south of the current embassy suites and

01:15:43.590 --> 01:15:47.960
convention center that's under construction.

01:15:47.960 --> 01:15:51.750
Site plans within razor ranch are required to bring back to

01:15:51.750 --> 01:15:54.140
the planning and zoning commission

01:15:54.140 --> 01:15:55.359
for approval.

01:15:55.359 --> 01:15:57.859
They are subject to the architectural and landscape

01:15:57.859 --> 01:15:59.800
standards outlined in exhibit C1

01:15:59.800 --> 01:16:02.920
and D1 of the overlay.

01:16:02.920 --> 01:16:05.229
The site plans are required to contain a site plan, a

01:16:05.229 --> 01:16:07.159
landscape plan, and building elevations,

01:16:07.159 --> 01:16:09.960
which we'll now look at.

01:16:09.960 --> 01:16:12.800
The site plan for this facility can be seen here.

01:16:12.800 --> 01:16:16.560
It is just over 41,000 square feet total in building.

01:16:16.560 --> 01:16:19.840
It has multiple uses that will be within there.

01:16:19.840 --> 01:16:23.319
In red you can see an area where bowling lanes will be.

01:16:23.319 --> 01:16:25.939
Outlined in green is the approximate location for an arcade

01:16:25.939 --> 01:16:26.159
.

01:16:26.159 --> 01:16:28.840
There will be an event space, which is outlined in blue.

01:16:28.840 --> 01:16:32.300
And then there will be a restaurant within the remainder of

01:16:32.300 --> 01:16:33.079
the area.

01:16:33.079 --> 01:16:37.270
The site will feature 165 parking spaces, which are all

01:16:37.270 --> 01:16:38.800
shown here on the map.

01:16:38.800 --> 01:16:40.319
Bicycle racks will also be provided.

01:16:40.319 --> 01:16:43.109
They'll be within what's labeled as a gathering area on the

01:16:43.109 --> 01:16:45.340
south side of the building.

01:16:45.340 --> 01:16:49.550
And access to the site will be taken from internal streets

01:16:49.550 --> 01:16:52.520
within the razor ranch development.

01:16:52.520 --> 01:16:56.710
The site will contain around 16% landscaping and 50% tree

01:16:56.710 --> 01:16:57.359
canopy.

01:16:57.359 --> 01:17:00.060
Those both exceed the minimum requirements for the overlay,

01:17:00.060 --> 01:17:01.720
which would be 10% landscaping

01:17:01.720 --> 01:17:03.840
and 20% canopy.

01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:07.920
The site also exceeds the requirements for plaza area.

01:17:07.920 --> 01:17:11.189
So it's going to have about 4,800 square feet of outdoor pl

01:17:11.189 --> 01:17:12.640
aza area that will include

01:17:12.640 --> 01:17:15.789
benches, tables, trees, other shade provided by the

01:17:15.789 --> 01:17:16.600
building.

01:17:16.600 --> 01:17:20.920
And those bicycle racks will be incorporated into that pl

01:17:20.920 --> 01:17:21.859
aza area.

01:17:21.859 --> 01:17:23.840
The elevations for the building can be seen here.

01:17:23.840 --> 01:17:25.359
This is the south side.

01:17:25.359 --> 01:17:27.840
So the front of the building will face south.

01:17:27.840 --> 01:17:32.520
The west elevation is shown there on the bottom.

01:17:32.520 --> 01:17:36.760
Then we have the north elevation, which will be the rear of

01:17:36.760 --> 01:17:39.720
the building and the east elevation.

01:17:39.720 --> 01:17:42.029
As outlined in the overlay, the Planning and Zoning

01:17:42.029 --> 01:17:43.659
Commission shall approve a site plan

01:17:43.659 --> 01:17:46.550
if it substantially complies with the concept and schematic

01:17:46.550 --> 01:17:47.000
plan.

01:17:47.000 --> 01:17:49.789
If it provides a compatible arrangement of buildings and

01:17:49.789 --> 01:17:51.560
land uses, it wouldn't adversely

01:17:51.560 --> 01:17:55.199
affect adjoining properties.

01:17:55.199 --> 01:17:57.789
If it provides for adequate and safe circulation of veh

01:17:57.789 --> 01:17:59.640
icular traffic and if it complies with

01:17:59.640 --> 01:18:02.079
all other sections of the overlay district.

01:18:02.079 --> 01:18:05.510
Through our review of the site plan, we did find that it

01:18:05.510 --> 01:18:07.479
meets all of these criteria.

01:18:07.479 --> 01:18:09.819
Staff is recommending approval of the site plan because it

01:18:09.819 --> 01:18:10.920
is compliant with all the

01:18:10.920 --> 01:18:13.890
regulations of the razor range overlay district and meets

01:18:13.890 --> 01:18:15.600
the criteria for approval that were

01:18:15.600 --> 01:18:16.600
just outlined.

01:18:16.600 --> 01:18:18.640
I can stand for any questions.

01:18:18.640 --> 01:18:19.640
One question.

01:18:19.640 --> 01:18:20.640
Commissioner Beck.

01:18:20.640 --> 01:18:21.640
Thank you, Chair.

01:18:21.640 --> 01:18:26.920
Does the plaza area have a canopy over it or is it open?

01:18:26.920 --> 01:18:27.920
Much of it is open.

01:18:27.920 --> 01:18:30.229
There will be shade provided by some protrusions from the

01:18:30.229 --> 01:18:31.600
building as well as from the trees

01:18:31.600 --> 01:18:32.600
that are planted within it.

01:18:32.600 --> 01:18:33.600
Okay.

01:18:33.600 --> 01:18:34.600
But no canopy of any kind.

01:18:34.600 --> 01:18:35.600
Okay.

01:18:35.600 --> 01:18:36.600
Thank you.

01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:41.399
Any other questions for Haley?

01:18:41.399 --> 01:18:43.079
Thank you, Haley.

01:18:43.079 --> 01:18:45.479
This is an individual consideration item.

01:18:45.479 --> 01:18:48.300
It's not a public hearing, but if you would like to speak

01:18:48.300 --> 01:18:49.840
on it on this item, you're welcome

01:18:49.840 --> 01:18:50.840
to come forward.

01:18:50.840 --> 01:18:53.739
I don't know if the applicant would like to add anything to

01:18:53.739 --> 01:18:55.560
the staff's presentation.

01:18:55.560 --> 01:18:56.560
No?

01:18:56.560 --> 01:18:57.560
Okay.

01:18:57.560 --> 01:19:04.279
Seeing none, the chair will open this item, put it on the

01:19:04.279 --> 01:19:08.399
floor for discussion or motion.

01:19:08.399 --> 01:19:10.359
Commissioner Beck.

01:19:10.359 --> 01:19:11.359
Thank you.

01:19:11.359 --> 01:19:14.359
I move to approve Z170016.

01:19:14.359 --> 01:19:15.359
Okay.

01:19:15.359 --> 01:19:16.359
Thank you.

01:19:16.359 --> 01:19:17.359
Oops.

01:19:17.359 --> 01:19:18.359
Sorry.

01:19:18.359 --> 01:19:19.359
Not the right one.

01:19:19.359 --> 01:19:21.359
I move to approve this item.

01:19:21.359 --> 01:19:22.359
Okay.

01:19:22.359 --> 01:19:23.359
Commissioner Smith.

01:19:23.359 --> 01:19:28.640
I second the motion to approve SB170051 just for correction

01:19:28.640 --> 01:19:28.960
.

01:19:28.960 --> 01:19:29.960
Good.

01:19:29.960 --> 01:19:31.680
Thank you for the clarification.

01:19:31.680 --> 01:19:35.359
We have a first and a second for approval.

01:19:35.359 --> 01:19:37.560
Any further discussion?

01:19:37.560 --> 01:19:48.039
I'll call for a vote on board.

01:19:48.039 --> 01:19:49.720
Motion carries 7-0.

01:19:49.720 --> 01:19:52.399
Good luck with your project.

01:19:52.399 --> 01:19:55.920
That will move us to our item.

01:19:55.920 --> 01:19:59.319
Get the correct number.

01:19:59.319 --> 01:20:04.579
Our second item on our individual consideration tonight is

01:20:04.579 --> 01:20:08.039
going to be FP17-0023.

01:20:08.039 --> 01:20:17.800
And I will call on Haley for a presentation of that item.

01:20:17.800 --> 01:20:22.390
FP17-0023 is a final plat of five lots within the Razor

01:20:22.390 --> 01:20:23.840
Ranch Town Center.

01:20:23.840 --> 01:20:27.859
We have lot 17 through 20 of block A here on the north side

01:20:27.859 --> 01:20:29.560
of Panhandle and lot 1 of

01:20:29.560 --> 01:20:33.239
block B located on the south side.

01:20:33.239 --> 01:20:35.550
This plat also includes the dedication of right of way for

01:20:35.550 --> 01:20:36.680
Heritage Trail and Panhandle

01:20:36.680 --> 01:20:37.680
Drive.

01:20:37.680 --> 01:20:39.159
And I can stand for any questions.

01:20:39.159 --> 01:20:41.760
I'm going to ask for a clarification from Richard.

01:20:41.760 --> 01:20:43.949
I believe we pulled this item off the consent agenda

01:20:43.949 --> 01:20:45.720
because there was a recommendation.

01:20:45.720 --> 01:20:49.439
Do we want to add that to this?

01:20:49.439 --> 01:20:50.439
Yes, sir.

01:20:50.439 --> 01:20:51.439
Have that correct?

01:20:51.439 --> 01:20:53.039
Yeah, I can discuss that.

01:20:53.039 --> 01:20:55.819
So the condition for approval is that this is still pending

01:20:55.819 --> 01:20:57.199
approval of the associated

01:20:57.199 --> 01:20:58.500
civil plans.

01:20:58.500 --> 01:21:00.500
Those are under review by staff.

01:21:00.500 --> 01:21:02.970
We don't anticipate any major changes, but there could be

01:21:02.970 --> 01:21:04.640
minor tweaks to easement locations

01:21:04.640 --> 01:21:07.250
or something like that that we would request to be able to

01:21:07.250 --> 01:21:08.920
be approved at the staff level.

01:21:08.920 --> 01:21:10.720
Does that take care of it?

01:21:10.720 --> 01:21:11.720
That does.

01:21:11.720 --> 01:21:12.720
Okay.

01:21:12.720 --> 01:21:13.720
Great.

01:21:13.720 --> 01:21:17.239
I'm going to call for a clarification.

01:21:17.239 --> 01:21:18.239
Commissioner Roselle.

01:21:18.239 --> 01:21:25.119
I motion to approve FP 17-003 with those conditions.

01:21:25.119 --> 01:21:26.119
Commissioner Smith.

01:21:26.119 --> 01:21:27.119
I second that motion.

01:21:27.119 --> 01:21:28.119
Okay.

01:21:28.119 --> 01:21:29.520
We have a first and a second for approval.

01:21:29.520 --> 01:21:33.880
Any further discussion?

01:21:33.880 --> 01:21:42.039
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

01:21:42.039 --> 01:21:44.279
Motion carries 7-0.

01:21:44.279 --> 01:21:49.979
Good luck with your project.

01:21:49.979 --> 01:21:52.859
That will move us to our public hearing section this

01:21:52.859 --> 01:21:53.600
evening.

01:21:53.600 --> 01:21:59.270
At this time, I'm going to open the public hearing for Z17-

01:21:59.270 --> 01:22:02.720
0016, and I will call on Haley

01:22:02.720 --> 01:22:04.119
for presentation.

01:22:04.119 --> 01:22:07.920
Because while we're waiting on that, I want to pause.

01:22:07.920 --> 01:22:11.960
We have one card from Jason Dernbos.

01:22:11.960 --> 01:22:14.550
It doesn't have an agenda item, and I just want to clarify

01:22:14.550 --> 01:22:15.800
which agenda item you would

01:22:15.800 --> 01:22:17.560
like to speak on.

01:22:17.560 --> 01:22:18.560
This one?

01:22:18.560 --> 01:22:19.560
Okay.

01:22:19.560 --> 01:22:20.560
Glad I asked at this time.

01:22:20.560 --> 01:22:21.560
All right.

01:22:21.560 --> 01:22:22.560
Good.

01:22:22.560 --> 01:22:25.479
Lucky for you.

01:22:25.479 --> 01:22:26.479
Thank you, Haley.

01:22:26.479 --> 01:22:27.479
Please continue.

01:22:27.479 --> 01:22:28.479
All right.

01:22:28.479 --> 01:22:31.960
So this presentation will cover both items A and B on the

01:22:31.960 --> 01:22:35.319
public hearing agenda, so Z17-0016

01:22:35.319 --> 01:22:38.800
and S17-09.

01:22:38.800 --> 01:22:40.439
So there are two requests.

01:22:40.439 --> 01:22:44.630
The first is for a rezoning that would be for the entire 72

01:22:44.630 --> 01:22:46.600
acres outlined here in yellow

01:22:46.600 --> 01:22:49.350
from an industrial center employment district to

01:22:49.350 --> 01:22:52.159
neighborhood residential mixed use district.

01:22:52.159 --> 01:22:55.680
The second aspect of the request is for a specific use

01:22:55.680 --> 01:22:58.000
permit to allow for a multifamily

01:22:58.000 --> 01:23:03.909
use on about 32.6 acres and an outdoor recreation use on 19

01:23:03.909 --> 01:23:05.239
.9 acres.

01:23:05.239 --> 01:23:07.550
As you can see here, the property is located on the south

01:23:07.550 --> 01:23:08.380
side of Oak Street.

01:23:08.380 --> 01:23:13.119
This is west of I-35 near the airport.

01:23:13.119 --> 01:23:15.430
The future land use designation for the property is

01:23:15.430 --> 01:23:16.539
industrial commerce.

01:23:16.539 --> 01:23:20.729
The intent of that designation is to promote both light and

01:23:20.729 --> 01:23:22.600
heavy industrial uses.

01:23:22.600 --> 01:23:28.010
This area also encourages supporting commercial uses as

01:23:28.010 --> 01:23:28.840
well.

01:23:28.840 --> 01:23:32.300
The proposed NRMU district does not meet the intent of that

01:23:32.300 --> 01:23:34.279
future land use designation.

01:23:34.279 --> 01:23:36.920
And when a request doesn't conform to the future land use

01:23:36.920 --> 01:23:38.399
map, the Denton Development

01:23:38.399 --> 01:23:42.279
Code provides for additional criteria for consideration.

01:23:42.279 --> 01:23:45.159
Those criteria are meant to balance the competing interests

01:23:45.159 --> 01:23:47.079
that occur between public health,

01:23:47.079 --> 01:23:50.640
safety, the general welfare versus the right to the use of

01:23:50.640 --> 01:23:51.720
the property.

01:23:51.720 --> 01:23:54.539
These criteria include examining the existing land use

01:23:54.539 --> 01:23:56.479
pattern, whether or not an isolated

01:23:56.479 --> 01:23:59.180
zoning district would be created, adequate infrastructure

01:23:59.180 --> 01:24:00.960
provision, potential environmental

01:24:00.960 --> 01:24:05.359
impacts and the general character of the district.

01:24:05.359 --> 01:24:08.020
So looking into those a little bit further, it's important

01:24:08.020 --> 01:24:09.520
to point out that this property

01:24:09.520 --> 01:24:13.340
is within the boundaries of the West Park tax increment

01:24:13.340 --> 01:24:15.000
reinvestment zone.

01:24:15.000 --> 01:24:18.289
That entire area shown here in the hatched orange lines, it

01:24:18.289 --> 01:24:20.279
's about 800 acres total.

01:24:20.279 --> 01:24:23.880
This entire area is designated this way to promote

01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:26.720
industrial development by providing

01:24:26.720 --> 01:24:29.840
some tax incentives to help support the public

01:24:29.840 --> 01:24:32.760
infrastructure needs that would be here as

01:24:32.760 --> 01:24:36.640
the area develops.

01:24:36.640 --> 01:24:39.130
Looking at what's around the property in terms of zoning,

01:24:39.130 --> 01:24:41.159
we have primarily industrial districts

01:24:41.159 --> 01:24:44.449
west of I-35, so the ICE district, which includes the

01:24:44.449 --> 01:24:46.800
subject property, as well as some other

01:24:46.800 --> 01:24:50.560
key features such as 84 lumber to the north.

01:24:50.560 --> 01:24:53.789
There's a reader link and the Benny Keith distribution

01:24:53.789 --> 01:24:55.119
centers in the area.

01:24:55.119 --> 01:24:58.350
We also have the ICG district adjoining the property across

01:24:58.350 --> 01:25:00.079
what would be precision drive,

01:25:00.079 --> 01:25:01.720
it's undeveloped land.

01:25:01.720 --> 01:25:03.560
There's some gas wells in the area.

01:25:03.560 --> 01:25:06.520
And then we have the Peterbilt facility here to the

01:25:06.520 --> 01:25:08.359
southwest of the property.

01:25:08.359 --> 01:25:11.039
Across I-35, you get a much greater mixture of zoning

01:25:11.039 --> 01:25:12.960
districts and uses, some key features

01:25:12.960 --> 01:25:16.720
being the razor ranch area here to the northeast, the

01:25:16.720 --> 01:25:17.960
hospital area.

01:25:17.960 --> 01:25:22.180
We have UNT's campus and many of the associated multifamily

01:25:22.180 --> 01:25:23.279
uses there.

01:25:23.279 --> 01:25:30.159
And then the UNT football stadium here to the southeast.

01:25:30.159 --> 01:25:33.640
Access to the site would primarily be from West Oak Street.

01:25:33.640 --> 01:25:36.000
That is designated as a primary arterial.

01:25:36.000 --> 01:25:38.640
Currently it's a two-lane undivided roadway.

01:25:38.640 --> 01:25:41.909
Based on its classification, it's intended to ultimately be

01:25:41.909 --> 01:25:43.460
a six-lane divided road.

01:25:43.460 --> 01:25:46.720
We have precision drive, which currently dead ends as a two

01:25:46.720 --> 01:25:48.439
-lane undivided road here at the

01:25:48.439 --> 01:25:51.520
south end of the property, that would be extended north

01:25:51.520 --> 01:25:53.880
with this development and would continue

01:25:53.880 --> 01:25:57.119
to be a two-lane undivided road as it moves north.

01:25:57.119 --> 01:26:01.350
There's also a Kansas City rail line that runs along the

01:26:01.350 --> 01:26:04.279
eastern boundary of the property.

01:26:04.279 --> 01:26:07.510
Now getting into more of the specifics of what this request

01:26:07.510 --> 01:26:09.439
is intended to help develop,

01:26:09.439 --> 01:26:13.359
and that would be multifamily and outdoor recreation uses.

01:26:13.359 --> 01:26:17.180
So the specific use permit is requesting the permission to

01:26:17.180 --> 01:26:19.079
do a multifamily use here in

01:26:19.079 --> 01:26:20.079
the area shown as green.

01:26:20.079 --> 01:26:22.880
That would be phase one of the development.

01:26:22.880 --> 01:26:27.689
That would include 189 units of multifamily, a total of 700

01:26:27.689 --> 01:26:29.279
bedrooms, with a density just

01:26:29.279 --> 01:26:32.020
under nine dwelling units per acre.

01:26:32.020 --> 01:26:35.739
Phase two would also be multifamily, shown here in red.

01:26:35.739 --> 01:26:39.439
That would be 100 units, 376 bedrooms total.

01:26:39.439 --> 01:26:43.649
Again, just about nine dwelling units per acre in total

01:26:43.649 --> 01:26:44.520
density.

01:26:44.520 --> 01:26:48.159
The third phase includes the second use, which is outdoor

01:26:48.159 --> 01:26:50.479
recreation, and this is shown here

01:26:50.479 --> 01:26:55.239
as five ball fields and associated parking.

01:26:55.239 --> 01:26:58.119
The balance of the acreage of the property is encompassed

01:26:58.119 --> 01:26:59.600
in this lake, which is about

01:26:59.600 --> 01:27:02.479
15 acres total.

01:27:02.479 --> 01:27:06.250
The lake also is surrounded by a floodplain as well as rip

01:27:06.250 --> 01:27:08.439
arian buffer environmentally

01:27:08.439 --> 01:27:09.600
sensitive area.

01:27:09.600 --> 01:27:12.689
The boundaries of that environmentally sensitive area are

01:27:12.689 --> 01:27:14.479
outlined in blue on the map, so it

01:27:14.479 --> 01:27:17.640
is a sizable portion of the property.

01:27:17.640 --> 01:27:21.699
And any development within that ESA would require that the

01:27:21.699 --> 01:27:23.760
applicant go through a field

01:27:23.760 --> 01:27:26.659
assessment to determine if the ESA is in fact intact on the

01:27:26.659 --> 01:27:28.239
property, and if it is, they

01:27:28.239 --> 01:27:30.359
would then have to go through an alternative

01:27:30.359 --> 01:27:32.680
environmentally sensitive area plan to allow

01:27:32.680 --> 01:27:37.579
any development within that boundary.

01:27:37.579 --> 01:27:39.710
These are just some samples of the elevations and the type

01:27:39.710 --> 01:27:40.920
of building that they would be

01:27:40.920 --> 01:27:41.920
including on the property.

01:27:41.920 --> 01:27:44.880
You can see it's a mixture of styles, some looking more

01:27:44.880 --> 01:27:46.960
like single family, others looking

01:27:46.960 --> 01:27:52.319
more like a threeplex or a fourplex.

01:27:52.319 --> 01:27:54.630
Notification was sent about both of the requests, the

01:27:54.630 --> 01:27:55.600
zoning and the SUP.

01:27:55.600 --> 01:27:59.579
We received two responses from those within 200 feet.

01:27:59.579 --> 01:28:01.720
Both of those were for the zoning request.

01:28:01.720 --> 01:28:02.720
One was in opposition.

01:28:02.720 --> 01:28:06.479
You can see the property outlined in red, and one was in

01:28:06.479 --> 01:28:07.140
favor.

01:28:07.140 --> 01:28:09.989
Within the 200 foot boundary, based on the area that is

01:28:09.989 --> 01:28:12.000
just within that boundary, 22%

01:28:12.000 --> 01:28:15.039
of the land area expressed opposition to the request.

01:28:15.039 --> 01:28:19.760
So at City Council, there would be a super majority vote

01:28:19.760 --> 01:28:20.939
required.

01:28:20.939 --> 01:28:23.979
Staff is recommending denial of the zoning request based on

01:28:23.979 --> 01:28:25.319
these three criteria.

01:28:25.319 --> 01:28:28.329
It's incompatibility with the surrounding land use pattern,

01:28:28.329 --> 01:28:29.859
inconsistency with the goals

01:28:29.859 --> 01:28:32.449
of the West Park terrors, and inconsistency with the goals

01:28:32.449 --> 01:28:33.800
and objectives of the Denton

01:28:33.800 --> 01:28:37.270
Plan 2030 in terms of this area being designated for

01:28:37.270 --> 01:28:38.800
industrial commerce.

01:28:38.800 --> 01:28:39.800
Staff?

01:28:39.800 --> 01:28:44.449
>> Can I just clarify for the record that that 22%

01:28:44.449 --> 01:28:47.399
objection is for the SUP portion?

01:28:47.399 --> 01:28:48.640
>> Those were -- >> Or the zoning?

01:28:48.640 --> 01:28:50.439
>> Those were sent in for the zoning case.

01:28:50.439 --> 01:28:51.439
>> For the zoning case.

01:28:51.439 --> 01:28:52.439
Okay.

01:28:52.439 --> 01:28:56.239
>> Staff is also recommending denial of the SUP request for

01:28:56.239 --> 01:28:57.840
those same reasons.

01:28:57.840 --> 01:28:59.739
Incompatibility with the land use pattern, the goals of the

01:28:59.739 --> 01:29:00.720
terrors, and the goals of

01:29:00.720 --> 01:29:02.520
the Denton Plan 2030.

01:29:02.520 --> 01:29:05.279
However, if the Planning and Zoning Commission votes to

01:29:05.279 --> 01:29:07.399
recommend approval of this request,

01:29:07.399 --> 01:29:10.449
staff would recommend the following conditions be placed on

01:29:10.449 --> 01:29:11.039
the SUP.

01:29:11.039 --> 01:29:13.460
The first condition being that the site plan, landscape

01:29:13.460 --> 01:29:15.000
plan, and building elevations as

01:29:15.000 --> 01:29:18.350
presented to you tonight would all be considered conceptual

01:29:18.350 --> 01:29:18.560
.

01:29:18.560 --> 01:29:21.149
A full site plan submittal would be required for each phase

01:29:21.149 --> 01:29:22.479
of the development as it moves

01:29:22.479 --> 01:29:26.449
forward to help verify and ensure that all aspects of it

01:29:26.449 --> 01:29:28.680
are compliant with the Denton

01:29:28.680 --> 01:29:32.039
Development Code in terms of site design, landscaping,

01:29:32.039 --> 01:29:34.119
parking, and building design.

01:29:34.119 --> 01:29:37.550
The second criteria or condition would be that a full

01:29:37.550 --> 01:29:39.479
assessment of the ESA on site

01:29:39.479 --> 01:29:42.300
would be required before any development could occur within

01:29:42.300 --> 01:29:43.680
those boundaries and if that

01:29:43.680 --> 01:29:46.359
is verified that an alternative ESA plan would have to be

01:29:46.359 --> 01:29:48.119
approved for that development to

01:29:48.119 --> 01:29:50.000
occur.

01:29:50.000 --> 01:29:52.869
The third criteria would be that the development of the

01:29:52.869 --> 01:29:55.439
multifamily use be limited to the 32.6

01:29:55.439 --> 01:29:58.560
acres shown here tonight and the outdoor recreation use be

01:29:58.560 --> 01:30:00.720
limited to the 19.9 acres that were

01:30:00.720 --> 01:30:02.520
outlined.

01:30:02.520 --> 01:30:05.770
The multifamily use we would encourage to not contain any

01:30:05.770 --> 01:30:07.960
more than the 289 units shown

01:30:07.960 --> 01:30:11.189
and the density for that be calculated strictly on the land

01:30:11.189 --> 01:30:12.840
area that was outlined on the

01:30:12.840 --> 01:30:15.920
site plan rather than the total acreage of the property.

01:30:15.920 --> 01:30:17.479
And with that I can stand for any questions.

01:30:17.479 --> 01:30:18.479
>> Yep.

01:30:18.479 --> 01:30:19.479
Got a couple questions for you.

01:30:19.479 --> 01:30:20.479
Commissioner Smith.

01:30:20.479 --> 01:30:21.479
>> Thank you, Chair.

01:30:21.479 --> 01:30:25.529
We did clarify in our work session that the TURS would not

01:30:25.529 --> 01:30:27.960
be applicable for a multifamily

01:30:27.960 --> 01:30:29.720
within an RMU.

01:30:29.720 --> 01:30:30.720
>> That's correct.

01:30:30.720 --> 01:30:33.109
The TURS project plan specifically excludes reimbursement

01:30:33.109 --> 01:30:34.000
for multifamily.

01:30:34.000 --> 01:30:35.000
>> Got it.

01:30:35.000 --> 01:30:36.000
Thank you.

01:30:36.000 --> 01:30:40.640
Jim, Jinx, can I ask you a quick question about mobility?

01:30:40.640 --> 01:30:52.189
I don't think Haley wants to answer questions about DCTA

01:30:52.189 --> 01:30:55.000
bus lines.

01:30:55.000 --> 01:30:58.000
Not even sure if you're 100% the right person to ask on

01:30:58.000 --> 01:30:59.640
this, but if we were to approve

01:30:59.640 --> 01:31:03.630
it and this is the applicant wants to use this for student

01:31:03.630 --> 01:31:05.680
housing primarily, no bus

01:31:05.680 --> 01:31:08.689
lines go on that side of 35 to be able to service student

01:31:08.689 --> 01:31:10.520
housing, be able to get students

01:31:10.520 --> 01:31:14.729
to the university, what -- would there be a process for the

01:31:14.729 --> 01:31:16.439
applicant to have to go

01:31:16.439 --> 01:31:19.869
through to try to get expansion that way or there's nothing

01:31:19.869 --> 01:31:21.159
we can do with DCTA to try

01:31:21.159 --> 01:31:24.600
to get bus lines over to that side at all, correct?

01:31:24.600 --> 01:31:27.359
>> I would think that we could approach DCTA.

01:31:27.359 --> 01:31:30.260
>> But otherwise they'd have to drive to the university,

01:31:30.260 --> 01:31:31.800
drive to the closest bus stop

01:31:31.800 --> 01:31:33.399
or walk to the closest bus stop.

01:31:33.399 --> 01:31:34.399
>> Yes, sir.

01:31:34.399 --> 01:31:35.399
>> Correct.

01:31:35.399 --> 01:31:36.399
Got it.

01:31:36.399 --> 01:31:37.399
That's all.

01:31:37.399 --> 01:31:38.399
>> Commissioner Rossell.

01:31:38.399 --> 01:31:40.600
>> Thank you, chair.

01:31:40.600 --> 01:31:41.600
Excuse me.

01:31:41.600 --> 01:31:45.369
Haley, can you tell me a little bit about the TURS,

01:31:45.369 --> 01:31:47.920
specifically, do you know when it

01:31:47.920 --> 01:31:50.359
was established and what established that?

01:31:50.359 --> 01:31:53.829
Was that a council vote or was that a citywide vote that

01:31:53.829 --> 01:31:55.359
established that?

01:31:55.359 --> 01:32:01.300
>> You're talking about the election, an election or a city

01:32:01.300 --> 01:32:03.039
council vote?

01:32:03.039 --> 01:32:05.920
>> I just -- the TURS, how did that come into being?

01:32:05.920 --> 01:32:10.310
>> The TURS is created by city council and there's a board

01:32:10.310 --> 01:32:12.439
that's established and then

01:32:12.439 --> 01:32:14.560
the project and finance plans are approved through the

01:32:14.560 --> 01:32:15.760
board and then to city council

01:32:15.760 --> 01:32:16.760
for approval.

01:32:16.760 --> 01:32:18.119
>> It didn't go to a citywide vote?

01:32:18.119 --> 01:32:19.119
>> No.

01:32:19.119 --> 01:32:20.119
>> Okay.

01:32:20.119 --> 01:32:23.119
>> It was created in 2012, I believe.

01:32:23.119 --> 01:32:24.119
>> 2012?

01:32:24.119 --> 01:32:25.119
>> Mm-hmm.

01:32:25.119 --> 01:32:29.680
>> And then can you also help me understand the density?

01:32:29.680 --> 01:32:32.350
Typically they would have the ability to use their entire

01:32:32.350 --> 01:32:34.039
property to calculate density.

01:32:34.039 --> 01:32:38.539
Why are you recommending, if the zoning was to approve it,

01:32:38.539 --> 01:32:40.560
the third condition on the

01:32:40.560 --> 01:32:41.560
density?

01:32:41.560 --> 01:32:45.319
>> The intent was to limit it to the number of units shown

01:32:45.319 --> 01:32:48.439
because 1,000 potential bedrooms

01:32:48.439 --> 01:32:51.029
in this area is quite a large enhancement to the number of

01:32:51.029 --> 01:32:52.319
people driving and living

01:32:52.319 --> 01:32:53.640
in the area.

01:32:53.640 --> 01:32:57.069
The intent with the density was that there not be a density

01:32:57.069 --> 01:32:58.720
bonus obtained by using the

01:32:58.720 --> 01:33:01.409
acreage for the lake or something that's not going to be a

01:33:01.409 --> 01:33:03.079
multifamily use count towards

01:33:03.079 --> 01:33:04.079
that.

01:33:04.079 --> 01:33:06.880
So it would be limited to the 32 acres that they're

01:33:06.880 --> 01:33:09.039
proposing to actually do a multifamily

01:33:09.039 --> 01:33:10.199
development.

01:33:10.199 --> 01:33:13.560
>> If they could build by right, they would be able to use

01:33:13.560 --> 01:33:15.640
ponds in the density calculation

01:33:15.640 --> 01:33:16.640
traditionally in the city?

01:33:16.640 --> 01:33:19.279
>> Traditionally, yes, if it's all on the same lot.

01:33:19.279 --> 01:33:20.760
They could potentially count that.

01:33:20.760 --> 01:33:21.760
>> Okay.

01:33:21.760 --> 01:33:26.279
Thank you.

01:33:26.279 --> 01:33:32.279
>> And we also ran some numbers for your question, Chair.

01:33:32.279 --> 01:33:38.319
So, granted that these are all very rough estimates.

01:33:38.319 --> 01:33:42.090
Typical industrial use would generate $100,000 to $200,000

01:33:42.090 --> 01:33:43.399
in water and wastewater impact

01:33:43.399 --> 01:33:45.279
fees.

01:33:45.279 --> 01:33:48.399
For the amount of units shown here, it's estimated that

01:33:48.399 --> 01:33:51.279
phase one would be around 1.1 million

01:33:51.279 --> 01:33:57.000
and phase two would be at 600,000, roughly.

01:33:57.000 --> 01:33:59.859
In terms of roadway impact fees, that would be offset by

01:33:59.859 --> 01:34:01.680
the improvements that they would

01:34:01.680 --> 01:34:03.720
be doing with precision drive, the construction of that

01:34:03.720 --> 01:34:04.199
roadway.

01:34:04.199 --> 01:34:05.199
>> Okay.

01:34:05.199 --> 01:34:07.300
So they're going to be responsible for the perimeter street

01:34:07.300 --> 01:34:08.319
paving rather than in lieu

01:34:08.319 --> 01:34:12.100
of paying traffic impact fees, essentially, approximately

01:34:12.100 --> 01:34:13.880
for discussion purposes.

01:34:13.880 --> 01:34:16.899
>> Yes, because in this case, the precision drive does not

01:34:16.899 --> 01:34:18.439
exist currently along their

01:34:18.439 --> 01:34:19.439
perimeter.

01:34:19.439 --> 01:34:20.439
>> Okay.

01:34:20.439 --> 01:34:22.590
And based on that, it's going to be a considerable sum to

01:34:22.590 --> 01:34:23.199
put that in.

01:34:23.199 --> 01:34:24.199
>> Yes.

01:34:24.199 --> 01:34:25.199
>> Millions.

01:34:25.199 --> 01:34:26.199
Million.

01:34:26.199 --> 01:34:29.199
>> Probably between half a million and a million.

01:34:29.199 --> 01:34:30.199
>> Okay.

01:34:30.199 --> 01:34:31.199
Sorry.

01:34:31.199 --> 01:34:32.199
>> It's okay.

01:34:32.199 --> 01:34:33.199
>> It's okay.

01:34:33.199 --> 01:34:34.199
>> Okay.

01:34:34.199 --> 01:34:37.489
So it's a substantial difference in impact fees to the city

01:34:37.489 --> 01:34:38.960
if this is rezoned versus

01:34:38.960 --> 01:34:42.050
industrial, because I know there were some other questions

01:34:42.050 --> 01:34:43.359
as to what kind of impact

01:34:43.359 --> 01:34:46.250
it would have on our services, but it's a considerable

01:34:46.250 --> 01:34:47.640
additional funds that they would

01:34:47.640 --> 01:34:48.640
pay.

01:34:48.640 --> 01:34:51.090
>> I think whichever the use is, irregardless of the use,

01:34:51.090 --> 01:34:52.279
there would be that perimeter

01:34:52.279 --> 01:34:56.439
street pavement exaction.

01:34:56.439 --> 01:35:00.359
Or the difference would lie would be with the water sewer

01:35:00.359 --> 01:35:02.359
impact fees based on the number

01:35:02.359 --> 01:35:04.239
of bedrooms, the very high number of bedrooms that they're

01:35:04.239 --> 01:35:06.359
talking about for this project.

01:35:06.359 --> 01:35:09.500
That's what the source, that's directly related to the

01:35:09.500 --> 01:35:11.319
numbers that Haley gave you.

01:35:11.319 --> 01:35:14.970
For industrial water demands can really vary depending on

01:35:14.970 --> 01:35:16.760
the industrial process.

01:35:16.760 --> 01:35:20.710
So we're given a range of common meter sizes we see, you

01:35:20.710 --> 01:35:23.119
know, like she said, anywhere

01:35:23.119 --> 01:35:25.159
from 100 to 200,000.

01:35:25.159 --> 01:35:26.279
>> Okay.

01:35:26.279 --> 01:35:30.560
Thank you for the additional information.

01:35:30.560 --> 01:35:31.560
Commissioner Beck.

01:35:31.560 --> 01:35:32.560
>> Thank you, Chair.

01:35:32.560 --> 01:35:35.479
Let me ask you a hypothetical here.

01:35:35.479 --> 01:35:38.979
If this were approved for this residential area, how would

01:35:38.979 --> 01:35:40.939
this impact future development

01:35:40.939 --> 01:35:44.800
in those ICA areas, say another Peterbilt type or 84 lumber

01:35:44.800 --> 01:35:46.640
type built across the street

01:35:46.640 --> 01:35:47.640
from them?

01:35:47.640 --> 01:35:51.239
Would they have to do changes with sound and lighting as a

01:35:51.239 --> 01:35:53.560
result of being in close proximity

01:35:53.560 --> 01:35:58.640
to a residential neighborhood where that wouldn't be a

01:35:58.640 --> 01:36:01.479
consideration otherwise?

01:36:01.479 --> 01:36:03.439
>> The lighting provisions in the development code would

01:36:03.439 --> 01:36:04.760
apply no matter what the development

01:36:04.760 --> 01:36:05.760
is.

01:36:05.760 --> 01:36:08.640
So that would be the same between the uses.

01:36:08.640 --> 01:36:13.300
In terms of their site layout, because we go back to one of

01:36:13.300 --> 01:36:15.800
the maps here, because they

01:36:15.800 --> 01:36:17.909
are separated by right of way on both the north and west,

01:36:17.909 --> 01:36:19.279
there wouldn't be any additional

01:36:19.279 --> 01:36:21.199
buffer requirements there.

01:36:21.199 --> 01:36:23.789
Standing on the east because of the separation of the

01:36:23.789 --> 01:36:25.840
railroad, there could be some buffering

01:36:25.840 --> 01:36:28.359
requirements here on the south side where we would have --

01:36:28.359 --> 01:36:31.409
>> Not so much buffering issues, but if you've got a

01:36:31.409 --> 01:36:33.840
business in there that its production

01:36:33.840 --> 01:36:36.979
creates a lot of noise, okay, that's going to reach across

01:36:36.979 --> 01:36:38.220
that street there.

01:36:38.220 --> 01:36:41.279
So would they be inhibited then because they are in close

01:36:41.279 --> 01:36:43.239
proximity to a residential area?

01:36:43.239 --> 01:36:46.359
Would that negatively impact their business?

01:36:46.359 --> 01:36:48.229
>> I would say it could create some nuisances potentially,

01:36:48.229 --> 01:36:49.359
but they would ultimately have

01:36:49.359 --> 01:36:51.520
to follow the city's sound ordinances.

01:36:51.520 --> 01:36:52.520
>> Okay.

01:36:52.520 --> 01:36:55.869
But if that residential area was there, would it be any

01:36:55.869 --> 01:36:56.840
different?

01:36:56.840 --> 01:36:57.840
>> No, sir.

01:36:57.840 --> 01:37:01.699
>> In an industrial area, aren't they allowed a certain

01:37:01.699 --> 01:37:04.119
decibel level as opposed to areas

01:37:04.119 --> 01:37:07.079
that are in close proximity to residential areas?

01:37:07.079 --> 01:37:09.390
>> I'm not familiar with what the code of ordinances states

01:37:09.390 --> 01:37:10.399
on that, but they would

01:37:10.399 --> 01:37:13.039
have to follow the city's general ordinances.

01:37:13.039 --> 01:37:14.039
>> Okay.

01:37:14.039 --> 01:37:15.039
Thanks.

01:37:15.039 --> 01:37:16.039
>> Commissioner Ellis.

01:37:16.039 --> 01:37:17.039
>> Thank you, Chair.

01:37:17.039 --> 01:37:20.680
I'm going to go back to a question on the TURS.

01:37:20.680 --> 01:37:24.039
Okay, so that was put in place in 2012.

01:37:24.039 --> 01:37:30.800
How often is that revoted on to continue it?

01:37:30.800 --> 01:37:34.449
>> For the TURS, it usually -- the reinvestment zone -- I'm

01:37:34.449 --> 01:37:39.199
trying to think of -- till August?

01:37:39.199 --> 01:37:45.079
Oh, it was just put in last August.

01:37:45.079 --> 01:37:49.729
And it seems to me like this one was for quite a few number

01:37:49.729 --> 01:37:50.840
of years.

01:37:50.840 --> 01:37:55.199
It wouldn't be revisited unless there was a change to the

01:37:55.199 --> 01:37:57.680
project or finance plans or

01:37:57.680 --> 01:37:59.800
they wanted to dissolve the TURS.

01:37:59.800 --> 01:38:03.399
I think this is only the second TURS in the city.

01:38:03.399 --> 01:38:07.000
And so the first one is the downtown area.

01:38:07.000 --> 01:38:09.000
And so there was a lot of talk about that.

01:38:09.000 --> 01:38:13.829
It's not like a tax zone or like a reinvestment zone where

01:38:13.829 --> 01:38:17.079
you have to do it every five years.

01:38:17.079 --> 01:38:19.960
It's a little bit different.

01:38:19.960 --> 01:38:22.159
>> So does it have an end date?

01:38:22.159 --> 01:38:23.159
>> Yeah.

01:38:23.159 --> 01:38:28.159
Do you have the exact end date?

01:38:28.159 --> 01:38:31.159
Let me see here.

01:38:31.159 --> 01:38:35.560
You don't have the actual -- >> I believe that's just the

01:38:35.560 --> 01:38:36.199
annual update.

01:38:36.199 --> 01:38:38.760
>> Yeah, this is not the right document.

01:38:38.760 --> 01:38:41.949
So I couldn't tell you off the top of my head what the end

01:38:41.949 --> 01:38:42.680
date is.

01:38:42.680 --> 01:38:44.479
>> And I guess the reason for my question is if we're --

01:38:44.479 --> 01:38:45.479
>> 20 years.

01:38:45.479 --> 01:38:46.479
>> 20 years.

01:38:46.479 --> 01:38:47.479
>> Yeah.

01:38:47.479 --> 01:38:48.479
>> I think it's 20 years.

01:38:48.479 --> 01:38:50.880
It's usually between 20 and 20.

01:38:50.880 --> 01:38:56.380
>> And taking 72 acres out of this does not weaken it as we

01:38:56.380 --> 01:38:59.159
move through it, correct?

01:38:59.159 --> 01:39:05.689
Does this do anything rezoning these 72 acres to the rest

01:39:05.689 --> 01:39:07.859
of the TURS area?

01:39:07.859 --> 01:39:10.340
>> Only to the original developer because we have an

01:39:10.340 --> 01:39:12.079
agreement for reimbursement for

01:39:12.079 --> 01:39:15.399
the infrastructure to the original developer.

01:39:15.399 --> 01:39:18.359
And so since multifamily is specifically cut out of the

01:39:18.359 --> 01:39:20.319
project plan, that tax increment

01:39:20.319 --> 01:39:23.619
for this particular parcel, if we change it, they won't get

01:39:23.619 --> 01:39:25.000
that money flow back.

01:39:25.000 --> 01:39:26.000
So it will take longer to pay back.

01:39:26.000 --> 01:39:28.319
>> It's just for this particular parcel, though, correct?

01:39:28.319 --> 01:39:29.319
>> Right.

01:39:29.319 --> 01:39:31.319
>> So other areas that will continue?

01:39:31.319 --> 01:39:32.319
>> Correct.

01:39:32.319 --> 01:39:33.319
>> Okay.

01:39:33.319 --> 01:39:35.800
Thank you.

01:39:35.800 --> 01:39:38.800
>> Next question, Rosalyn.

01:39:38.800 --> 01:39:41.159
>> You mentioned that multifamily is specifically called

01:39:41.159 --> 01:39:41.960
out in the TURS.

01:39:41.960 --> 01:39:44.550
Is there any other zoning classification that is

01:39:44.550 --> 01:39:46.720
specifically called out in the TURS?

01:39:46.720 --> 01:39:47.720
>> No.

01:39:47.720 --> 01:39:48.720
>> Okay.

01:39:48.720 --> 01:39:51.479
>> The TURS specifically contemplates industrial and

01:39:51.479 --> 01:39:52.479
commercial use.

01:39:52.479 --> 01:39:55.489
And there's actually a limit in the statute as to how much

01:39:55.489 --> 01:39:57.039
residential you can have in

01:39:57.039 --> 01:39:58.039
a TURS.

01:39:58.039 --> 01:39:59.039
So --

01:39:59.039 --> 01:40:00.039
>> Thank you.

01:40:00.039 --> 01:40:01.039
>> Okay.

01:40:01.039 --> 01:40:04.039
Any other questions for Haley?

01:40:04.039 --> 01:40:08.199
Okay.

01:40:08.199 --> 01:40:09.840
This is a public hearing.

01:40:09.840 --> 01:40:14.600
And I have several cards that wish to speak on this item.

01:40:14.600 --> 01:40:19.199
First will be Jason Dernbos, the applicant in support.

01:40:19.199 --> 01:40:21.960
Is there someone else who would like to speak first?

01:40:21.960 --> 01:40:24.960
>> Mr. Chairman, may I?

01:40:24.960 --> 01:40:25.960
>> Sure.

01:40:25.960 --> 01:40:26.960
>> First, I'm sorry.

01:40:26.960 --> 01:40:27.960
I may not have gotten the cards in the right order.

01:40:27.960 --> 01:40:28.960
I'm Lance Van Zandt.

01:40:28.960 --> 01:40:29.960
>> I probably reshuffled them.

01:40:29.960 --> 01:40:30.960
My apologies.

01:40:30.960 --> 01:40:31.960
>> I'm sorry.

01:40:31.960 --> 01:40:33.960
I'm sorry.

01:40:33.960 --> 01:40:35.960
I'm sorry.

01:40:35.960 --> 01:40:37.960
I'm sorry.

01:40:37.960 --> 01:40:39.960
I'm sorry.

01:40:39.960 --> 01:40:43.060
>> Just as a point of order, if you are representing the

01:40:43.060 --> 01:40:45.920
applicant, then you, too, get ten minutes.

01:40:45.920 --> 01:40:48.520
Or you'll have to share your minutes for a total of 20.

01:40:48.520 --> 01:40:49.920
You can't take more than 20 minutes.

01:40:49.920 --> 01:40:50.920
>> Okay.

01:40:50.920 --> 01:40:52.739
Yeah, we had planned if we have about three folks, we were

01:40:52.739 --> 01:40:53.920
going to divvy up 20 minutes

01:40:53.920 --> 01:40:54.920
if that's acceptable from the Chair.

01:40:54.920 --> 01:40:55.920
>> Sure.

01:40:55.920 --> 01:40:56.920
Absolutely.

01:40:56.920 --> 01:40:59.229
>> I was going to kind of get things started if I could, Mr

01:40:59.229 --> 01:40:59.920
. Chairman.

01:40:59.920 --> 01:41:02.920
I'm Lance Van Zandt, 512 West Hickory here in Denton.

01:41:02.920 --> 01:41:03.920
I represent Landmark Properties.

01:41:03.920 --> 01:41:07.970
I've had the pleasure of working with Landmark and our

01:41:07.970 --> 01:41:10.920
development team here as well as Haley

01:41:10.920 --> 01:41:13.640
and the staff in putting this application for both these

01:41:13.640 --> 01:41:15.199
items together on your agenda

01:41:15.199 --> 01:41:18.199
tonight, the zoning change and the SUP.

01:41:18.199 --> 01:41:22.680
We've got it before you tonight for the final decision.

01:41:22.680 --> 01:41:23.680
We're asking for your approval.

01:41:23.680 --> 01:41:25.989
There are many good questions that were brought up in the

01:41:25.989 --> 01:41:26.680
work session.

01:41:26.680 --> 01:41:29.699
We took notes on those and want to make sure we get those

01:41:29.699 --> 01:41:30.560
addressed.

01:41:30.560 --> 01:41:34.020
I believe Mr. Jinx's comments on the impact fees and the

01:41:34.020 --> 01:41:36.199
road costs were fairly consistent

01:41:36.199 --> 01:41:37.199
with our calculations.

01:41:37.199 --> 01:41:39.539
We understood we were going to have about a million dollars

01:41:39.539 --> 01:41:41.000
in water and wastewater impact

01:41:41.000 --> 01:41:42.000
fees.

01:41:42.000 --> 01:41:44.710
And our estimated construction cost of precision drive,

01:41:44.710 --> 01:41:46.319
which we will have to do to develop

01:41:46.319 --> 01:41:49.600
this project, is approximately a million dollars.

01:41:49.600 --> 01:41:51.750
I believe we're going to be paying roadway impact fees of

01:41:51.750 --> 01:41:53.119
about 800,000.

01:41:53.119 --> 01:41:55.800
So we're actually going to contribute a little more cost-

01:41:55.800 --> 01:41:56.279
wise.

01:41:56.279 --> 01:41:59.199
We anticipate that we would have just paying impact fees.

01:41:59.199 --> 01:42:02.239
So those are the numbers that we have on those two items.

01:42:02.239 --> 01:42:05.380
And if anything comes up, we've got our engineers that will

01:42:05.380 --> 01:42:06.880
be able to address that.

01:42:06.880 --> 01:42:09.840
So I won't go in detail through the application.

01:42:09.840 --> 01:42:12.979
Haley did a good job of summarizing that, but I did want to

01:42:12.979 --> 01:42:14.399
respect our time limits

01:42:14.399 --> 01:42:17.890
here and make sure we address questions that were brought

01:42:17.890 --> 01:42:19.479
up in the work session.

01:42:19.479 --> 01:42:23.079
Also, some items that we thought were of importance.

01:42:23.079 --> 01:42:26.310
I think if you just look at this project as a whole, with

01:42:26.310 --> 01:42:28.319
especially the 22 acres that

01:42:28.319 --> 01:42:32.310
we're looking at doing in phase one, the quality of the

01:42:32.310 --> 01:42:34.840
vertical construction that we're looking

01:42:34.840 --> 01:42:39.239
at-- and you all saw some examples of that in your packet--

01:42:39.239 --> 01:42:40.760
the fact that we're going

01:42:40.760 --> 01:42:44.109
from an industrial to an NRMU greatly enhances the

01:42:44.109 --> 01:42:46.039
landscape requirements.

01:42:46.039 --> 01:42:51.520
You go from about a 10% tree canopy to a 40% tree canopy.

01:42:51.520 --> 01:42:55.020
We have some existing natural features on the property that

01:42:55.020 --> 01:42:56.479
to an industrial user would

01:42:56.479 --> 01:42:58.239
be a significant challenge.

01:42:58.239 --> 01:43:02.289
We think in an NRMU district, this will eventually be an

01:43:02.289 --> 01:43:05.079
amenity and will create an aesthetic

01:43:05.079 --> 01:43:10.239
feature that can be used with the ball fields.

01:43:10.239 --> 01:43:14.430
So along with bringing public infrastructure now to the

01:43:14.430 --> 01:43:17.000
area, the extension of precision

01:43:17.000 --> 01:43:19.590
drive, the extension of water and wastewater utilities to

01:43:19.590 --> 01:43:20.920
serve that area, we think this

01:43:20.920 --> 01:43:21.920
is a great project.

01:43:21.920 --> 01:43:24.300
And I understand that the real question we have to answer

01:43:24.300 --> 01:43:25.800
here tonight is, well, as great

01:43:25.800 --> 01:43:27.600
as this project is, is this where it belongs?

01:43:27.600 --> 01:43:28.600
Is this a good location?

01:43:28.600 --> 01:43:29.600
Mr. Beck, you addressed that specifically.

01:43:29.600 --> 01:43:30.600
Is this a square pavement around Houghton?

01:43:30.600 --> 01:43:31.600
And we actually don't think it is.

01:43:31.600 --> 01:43:32.180
We think that maybe this is a unique, particularly unique

01:43:32.180 --> 01:43:32.600
tract of land that doesn't at all fit

01:43:32.600 --> 01:43:33.600
the current zoning category for a number of reasons.

01:43:33.600 --> 01:43:34.270
And I'm going to ask the representative of the owner to

01:43:34.270 --> 01:43:34.600
come up and speak.

01:43:34.600 --> 01:43:35.600
He's got quite a bit of institutional history.

01:43:35.600 --> 01:43:36.600
He's got a lot of experience in the area.

01:43:36.600 --> 01:43:37.600
He's got a lot of experience in the area.

01:43:37.600 --> 01:43:38.600
He's got a lot of experience in the area.

01:43:38.600 --> 01:43:39.600
He's got a lot of experience in the area.

01:43:39.600 --> 01:43:40.600
He's got a lot of experience in the area.

01:43:40.600 --> 01:43:51.600
He's got a lot of experience in the area.

01:43:51.600 --> 01:43:56.600
He's got a lot of experience in the area.

01:43:56.600 --> 01:43:59.600
He's got a lot of experience in the area.

01:43:59.600 --> 01:44:02.600
He's got a lot of experience in the area.

01:44:02.600 --> 01:44:07.600
He's got a lot of experience in the area.

01:44:07.600 --> 01:44:12.079
And Dan Grant, who serves as the engineering consultant for

01:44:12.079 --> 01:44:14.119
the Razor family and their

01:44:14.119 --> 01:44:16.800
properties has a great deal of experience with marketing

01:44:16.800 --> 01:44:18.279
and developing properties in

01:44:18.279 --> 01:44:19.279
this area.

01:44:19.279 --> 01:44:22.159
So I'm going to ask him to come up and speak as well.

01:44:22.159 --> 01:44:25.920
First off, I wanted to introduce to you directly to you my

01:44:25.920 --> 01:44:27.720
client, Jason Dornbos.

01:44:27.720 --> 01:44:29.840
Jason's the principal with Landmark Properties.

01:44:29.840 --> 01:44:33.310
They develop student housing across the southeastern,

01:44:33.310 --> 01:44:35.039
southern United States.

01:44:35.039 --> 01:44:38.140
They have one existing project in Denton, the retreat at

01:44:38.140 --> 01:44:38.760
Denton.

01:44:38.760 --> 01:44:42.970
It's been a successful facility that they constructed and

01:44:42.970 --> 01:44:44.640
continue to operate.

01:44:44.640 --> 01:44:48.590
And, you know, one thing that brought Landmark not only to

01:44:48.590 --> 01:44:50.800
Denton, but to this particular

01:44:50.800 --> 01:44:53.689
piece of property is they were attuned to some of the

01:44:53.689 --> 01:44:55.760
debate that's gone on around student

01:44:55.760 --> 01:44:57.520
housing in the last couple of years in Denton.

01:44:57.520 --> 01:44:59.829
There have been some controversial projects that have come

01:44:59.829 --> 01:45:00.920
before you that I know have

01:45:00.920 --> 01:45:01.920
been really tough votes.

01:45:01.920 --> 01:45:03.960
And you spent a lot of time thinking about this.

01:45:03.960 --> 01:45:08.170
And the community's been very involved on one side or

01:45:08.170 --> 01:45:10.079
another of this issue.

01:45:10.079 --> 01:45:12.729
And what Jason and Landmark heard was that there's a

01:45:12.729 --> 01:45:14.680
significant concern in Denton about

01:45:14.680 --> 01:45:17.770
student housing being placed in existing residential areas,

01:45:17.770 --> 01:45:19.840
especially in the historic areas around

01:45:19.840 --> 01:45:22.159
the university.

01:45:22.159 --> 01:45:26.890
And he has an understanding of how student housing in

01:45:26.890 --> 01:45:29.880
existing residential areas can

01:45:29.880 --> 01:45:32.840
worsen the affordable housing problem when investors buy up

01:45:32.840 --> 01:45:34.279
rental properties and rent

01:45:34.279 --> 01:45:35.279
them to students.

01:45:35.279 --> 01:45:38.579
It becomes harder and harder for your residents to live and

01:45:38.579 --> 01:45:40.560
work and buy houses close to where

01:45:40.560 --> 01:45:43.399
they work and where their kids go to school.

01:45:43.399 --> 01:45:49.520
So it was really an intentional targeting of this property

01:45:49.520 --> 01:45:52.319
to, in fact, remove this

01:45:52.319 --> 01:45:55.590
while still close to the university and reasonably close

01:45:55.590 --> 01:45:57.880
proximity, completely away from any

01:45:57.880 --> 01:46:02.069
existing residential neighborhoods or historic districts or

01:46:02.069 --> 01:46:04.039
any other uses that this would

01:46:04.039 --> 01:46:06.039
significantly impact.

01:46:06.039 --> 01:46:11.970
I'm going to let Mr. Baker talk in detail about his attempt

01:46:11.970 --> 01:46:14.800
to market this property.

01:46:14.800 --> 01:46:17.949
That's something he can talk about in more expert manner

01:46:17.949 --> 01:46:18.760
than I can.

01:46:18.760 --> 01:46:22.739
But I think the fact that, one, we really intend on trying

01:46:22.739 --> 01:46:25.159
to answer the community interest

01:46:25.159 --> 01:46:28.390
of keeping these projects outside of existing residential

01:46:28.390 --> 01:46:29.479
historic areas.

01:46:29.479 --> 01:46:32.439
We've got a really unique piece of property that the owners

01:46:32.439 --> 01:46:33.920
have had an impossible time

01:46:33.920 --> 01:46:37.800
marketing over the last 20 plus years to users in the

01:46:37.800 --> 01:46:39.600
industrial category.

01:46:39.600 --> 01:46:43.079
And three, there's a reason for that.

01:46:43.079 --> 01:46:46.649
And Mr. Grant's going to talk briefly about this, is the

01:46:46.649 --> 01:46:49.119
just topographical characteristics

01:46:49.119 --> 01:46:52.159
to the land that you saw on your map, the lake in the

01:46:52.159 --> 01:46:54.039
middle of it and the slope and

01:46:54.039 --> 01:46:58.090
the very just not a lot of land mass there outside the

01:46:58.090 --> 01:47:00.600
water to have large industrial

01:47:00.600 --> 01:47:02.920
type warehouse commercial uses.

01:47:02.920 --> 01:47:06.220
So those are some of the challenges that we would like to

01:47:06.220 --> 01:47:08.039
alert you to, make you aware

01:47:08.039 --> 01:47:11.300
of, and try to convince you that this is, in fact, the

01:47:11.300 --> 01:47:13.119
highest and best use for this

01:47:13.119 --> 01:47:14.119
property.

01:47:14.119 --> 01:47:17.390
And actually, what is a very difficult piece of property to

01:47:17.390 --> 01:47:19.039
develop as an industrial use

01:47:19.039 --> 01:47:22.229
actually presents a lot of attractive qualities for a

01:47:22.229 --> 01:47:23.520
student housing.

01:47:23.520 --> 01:47:27.289
So if I may, Mr. Chairman, I ask Mr. Dornbos to come up

01:47:27.289 --> 01:47:28.119
here next.

01:47:28.119 --> 01:47:29.119
That's convenient for you.

01:47:29.119 --> 01:47:32.090
Please give your name and address also and you approach the

01:47:32.090 --> 01:47:32.520
mic.

01:47:32.520 --> 01:47:36.399
Jason Dornbos, 455 Epsbridge Parkway, Athens, Georgia.

01:47:36.399 --> 01:47:37.399
Thank you, Commissioner.

01:47:37.399 --> 01:47:38.399
Appreciate your time tonight.

01:47:38.399 --> 01:47:39.399
I'll skip the slideshow.

01:47:39.399 --> 01:47:42.079
I was going to give just and hit some highlights as really

01:47:42.079 --> 01:47:43.920
just talk about our experience.

01:47:43.920 --> 01:47:47.680
But we're a nationally, or the largest national student

01:47:47.680 --> 01:47:49.920
housing development company.

01:47:49.920 --> 01:47:51.720
We are vertically integrated.

01:47:51.720 --> 01:47:54.909
We special out, we have our own management company,

01:47:54.909 --> 01:47:57.279
development company, obviously the

01:47:57.279 --> 01:47:59.399
development company as well.

01:47:59.399 --> 01:48:02.029
So just kind of real quick, just wanted to give you some

01:48:02.029 --> 01:48:02.960
information.

01:48:02.960 --> 01:48:06.720
We developed what was originally called the retreat, now

01:48:06.720 --> 01:48:08.640
called the Republic, back in

01:48:08.640 --> 01:48:09.640
2011.

01:48:09.640 --> 01:48:12.930
And since that time, we've been actively looking to try and

01:48:12.930 --> 01:48:14.920
find another project in this market,

01:48:14.920 --> 01:48:17.510
another site to do a project just to meet the increasing

01:48:17.510 --> 01:48:18.800
demand from students at the

01:48:18.800 --> 01:48:23.880
University of North Texas, and the feedback we received in

01:48:23.880 --> 01:48:26.520
reading the news articles and

01:48:26.520 --> 01:48:29.390
watch monitoring the market was that there was just getting

01:48:29.390 --> 01:48:30.760
a lot of opposition and push

01:48:30.760 --> 01:48:33.220
back in the neighborhoods to the north of campus, which is

01:48:33.220 --> 01:48:34.359
really the side we prefer

01:48:34.359 --> 01:48:37.250
to be on just because it's closer, it's an easy shot into

01:48:37.250 --> 01:48:38.600
campus on Oak, and it just

01:48:38.600 --> 01:48:39.600
made a lot of sense.

01:48:39.600 --> 01:48:42.710
So we've been actively looking at that and I've been

01:48:42.710 --> 01:48:44.920
working with Phil for probably two

01:48:44.920 --> 01:48:48.880
years to try and, he's thoughtfully trying to find a way to

01:48:48.880 --> 01:48:50.840
do a project on his property

01:48:50.840 --> 01:48:53.859
that maximized the value of that portion was the highest

01:48:53.859 --> 01:48:55.600
possible use and we really felt

01:48:55.600 --> 01:48:58.439
like this would really fit the bill.

01:48:58.439 --> 01:49:04.829
So you know, again, we've developed industrial properties

01:49:04.829 --> 01:49:07.239
around the country.

01:49:07.239 --> 01:49:10.699
We've got several that are under construction right now

01:49:10.699 --> 01:49:12.600
that we've had to rezone, do a

01:49:12.600 --> 01:49:15.039
new comp plan amendment to do those projects.

01:49:15.039 --> 01:49:17.630
They were all similar in a lot of ways to what we're doing

01:49:17.630 --> 01:49:18.720
here or proposing to do

01:49:18.720 --> 01:49:19.720
here.

01:49:19.720 --> 01:49:22.659
Just large pieces of property that were very close to

01:49:22.659 --> 01:49:24.680
campus and industrial just didn't

01:49:24.680 --> 01:49:27.600
make sense on those particular pieces of property due to

01:49:27.600 --> 01:49:29.680
environmental concerns or just where

01:49:29.680 --> 01:49:33.319
the market was.

01:49:33.319 --> 01:49:36.279
You know, this project, this product type is really

01:49:36.279 --> 01:49:38.319
designed to appeal to students that

01:49:38.319 --> 01:49:41.520
are seeking single family residences.

01:49:41.520 --> 01:49:44.159
So what we've seen, we've done a bunch of polls of our

01:49:44.159 --> 01:49:45.680
residents and we've found is

01:49:45.680 --> 01:49:48.270
that these projects actually pull a lot of the residents

01:49:48.270 --> 01:49:49.720
that would typically be renting

01:49:49.720 --> 01:49:53.220
single family houses and neighborhoods out of those houses

01:49:53.220 --> 01:49:54.720
and puts them in a project

01:49:54.720 --> 01:49:57.180
where they can live among their peers as opposed to living

01:49:57.180 --> 01:49:58.760
in houses and neighborhoods where

01:49:58.760 --> 01:50:02.949
they're living next door to professors or families where it

01:50:02.949 --> 01:50:04.720
's just kind of a conflict

01:50:04.720 --> 01:50:07.079
of use even in those single family neighborhoods.

01:50:07.079 --> 01:50:10.510
So we feel like this property is a way to, because of the

01:50:10.510 --> 01:50:12.520
size, we can do something like

01:50:12.520 --> 01:50:15.199
that and appeal to those students.

01:50:15.199 --> 01:50:18.699
And again, someone had mentioned earlier in the work

01:50:18.699 --> 01:50:21.600
session about the environmental sensitivity

01:50:21.600 --> 01:50:24.039
to this on the site.

01:50:24.039 --> 01:50:27.130
This, our project, as opposed to a lot of multifamily

01:50:27.130 --> 01:50:29.159
projects, has an extremely high

01:50:29.159 --> 01:50:32.319
percentage of pervious surface.

01:50:32.319 --> 01:50:35.210
I think it's, talking to Dan, it's like over 40% on this

01:50:35.210 --> 01:50:36.800
particular project, which for

01:50:36.800 --> 01:50:40.560
an apartment complex is really high, which is great given

01:50:40.560 --> 01:50:42.680
that the lake is next door.

01:50:42.680 --> 01:50:45.699
There's a lot of other features we do that we build all of

01:50:45.699 --> 01:50:46.720
our projects.

01:50:46.720 --> 01:50:51.319
They're designed to meet national green building standards.

01:50:51.319 --> 01:50:53.560
So we put a lot of thought into it.

01:50:53.560 --> 01:50:56.750
It's important to our residents to have features like that

01:50:56.750 --> 01:50:58.760
that are, you know, appeal to that

01:50:58.760 --> 01:51:01.039
environmental nature.

01:51:01.039 --> 01:51:04.680
And then it came up earlier about running the bus.

01:51:04.680 --> 01:51:07.960
We will do one of, we're required to, by our lenders, to do

01:51:07.960 --> 01:51:09.199
one of two things.

01:51:09.199 --> 01:51:11.500
We're either going to have to work out an agreement with

01:51:11.500 --> 01:51:12.800
the university to run the bus

01:51:12.800 --> 01:51:15.880
over there, or we will run a private shuttle ourselves.

01:51:15.880 --> 01:51:20.199
And that's just because there's never parking on campus.

01:51:20.199 --> 01:51:22.560
All of our residents are going to the same place.

01:51:22.560 --> 01:51:23.560
It's easy.

01:51:23.560 --> 01:51:27.439
It works out well and it helps us market the property.

01:51:27.439 --> 01:51:32.560
So with that, I will kick it over to Phil.

01:51:32.560 --> 01:51:33.560
Thank you for your time.

01:51:33.560 --> 01:51:46.640
Phil Baker, PO Box 2424, Denton, Texas.

01:51:46.640 --> 01:51:48.039
My name is Philip Baker.

01:51:48.039 --> 01:51:50.689
I am Vice President of the Razor Company, which controls

01:51:50.689 --> 01:51:52.159
both Razor Investments and the

01:51:52.159 --> 01:51:56.060
current owner of the subject land and its affiliate West

01:51:56.060 --> 01:51:57.119
Park Group.

01:51:57.119 --> 01:51:59.500
I've been employed with the Razor Company for over 30 years

01:51:59.500 --> 01:52:00.800
, the last 15 of which have

01:52:00.800 --> 01:52:04.149
been involved in responsibility for real estate management

01:52:04.149 --> 01:52:04.880
and sales.

01:52:04.880 --> 01:52:07.310
In addition to the subject property, Razor Investments and

01:52:07.310 --> 01:52:08.619
West Park Group owns hundreds

01:52:08.619 --> 01:52:11.470
of acres to the west, northwest, and southwest of the

01:52:11.470 --> 01:52:13.680
subject property within the West Denton

01:52:13.680 --> 01:52:14.680
area.

01:52:14.680 --> 01:52:17.539
I'm here tonight on behalf of Razor Investments and West

01:52:17.539 --> 01:52:19.359
Park Group to express our support

01:52:19.359 --> 01:52:21.739
of the requested zoning change, not merely because we have

01:52:21.739 --> 01:52:22.880
an interest in the pending

01:52:22.880 --> 01:52:26.640
sales transaction, but also as the largest remaining land

01:52:26.640 --> 01:52:28.760
owner in the immediate vicinity

01:52:28.760 --> 01:52:31.520
with an equal interest in maintaining land uses which are

01:52:31.520 --> 01:52:33.079
compatible to the anticipated

01:52:33.079 --> 01:52:36.439
future uses of our other remaining lands.

01:52:36.439 --> 01:52:39.630
Like the city planning department, we have historically

01:52:39.630 --> 01:52:41.199
been of the mindset that the

01:52:41.199 --> 01:52:44.210
area south of University and West of Iowa Interstate 35

01:52:44.210 --> 01:52:46.039
corridor is generally industrial

01:52:46.039 --> 01:52:50.850
and warehousing, and we've had no interest in straying from

01:52:50.850 --> 01:52:52.039
that focus.

01:52:52.039 --> 01:52:57.380
And all of it is identified as such in the Denton 2030 plan

01:52:57.380 --> 01:52:57.779
.

01:52:57.779 --> 01:53:00.810
Our prior sales of tracks to users such as the original

01:53:00.810 --> 01:53:02.800
Peterbilt Motor Company plant,

01:53:02.800 --> 01:53:06.369
the Tetra Pak plant, and Anderson Merchandisers, and more

01:53:06.369 --> 01:53:08.439
recent sales to Target Fest and all

01:53:08.439 --> 01:53:11.789
Peerless Manufacturing, Winko Foods, additional land to

01:53:11.789 --> 01:53:14.479
Peterbilt Motor for their future expansion,

01:53:14.479 --> 01:53:17.359
and 84 Lumber for their future expansion, all point

01:53:17.359 --> 01:53:19.479
development of this area as an industrial

01:53:19.479 --> 01:53:21.960
area with high quality users.

01:53:21.960 --> 01:53:26.170
This has always been our focus and continues to be so in

01:53:26.170 --> 01:53:27.159
general.

01:53:27.159 --> 01:53:43.640
And I have a map I want to show real quickly here.

01:53:43.640 --> 01:53:47.159
On the left is what this land looked like in 2007.

01:53:47.159 --> 01:53:50.520
You can see it's pretty much Peterbilt, Tetra Pak, and

01:53:50.520 --> 01:53:52.439
Anderson, and that is all that's

01:53:52.439 --> 01:53:55.800
been there since that land was virgin ground.

01:53:55.800 --> 01:53:58.390
On the right, we'll show you what we've been doing for the

01:53:58.390 --> 01:53:59.920
last 12 years in developing

01:53:59.920 --> 01:54:01.840
that industrial land.

01:54:01.840 --> 01:54:06.029
You'll see those companies, Target, Winko, Rush Enterprises

01:54:06.029 --> 01:54:07.800
, I didn't mention that one.

01:54:07.800 --> 01:54:11.380
They're taking 30 acres and they're under development right

01:54:11.380 --> 01:54:12.560
next to Tetra Pak.

01:54:12.560 --> 01:54:15.439
We saw the corridor of Western Boulevard put in all the way

01:54:15.439 --> 01:54:16.880
to the university to open up

01:54:16.880 --> 01:54:21.039
that area.

01:54:21.039 --> 01:54:23.479
But when other interested parties with extensive

01:54:23.479 --> 01:54:25.800
development experience actually evaluated

01:54:25.800 --> 01:54:28.920
the subject property, we began to develop a different

01:54:28.920 --> 01:54:31.000
viewpoint of this subject site.

01:54:31.000 --> 01:54:33.600
After gaining development insight from several experienced

01:54:33.600 --> 01:54:34.960
parties, we came to understand

01:54:34.960 --> 01:54:38.510
why the site is uniquely situated as compared to the others

01:54:38.510 --> 01:54:40.199
lands in the area and is not

01:54:40.199 --> 01:54:43.369
suitable for light industrial warehousing or other

01:54:43.369 --> 01:54:45.239
currently permitted uses.

01:54:45.239 --> 01:54:49.579
In 2007, IDI Gasly, one of the world's leading investors

01:54:49.579 --> 01:54:51.520
and developers of logistic warehouses

01:54:51.520 --> 01:54:54.380
and distribution parks in North America and Europe,

01:54:54.380 --> 01:54:56.359
evaluated acquiring all of our land

01:54:56.359 --> 01:55:01.920
in the US 380 and west of Interstate 35.

01:55:01.920 --> 01:55:05.529
While IDI confirmed the existing industrial warehouse uses

01:55:05.529 --> 01:55:07.199
under the Denton Plan as the

01:55:07.199 --> 01:55:10.590
highest and best use for most of our lands, they concluded

01:55:10.590 --> 01:55:12.520
that the subject property would

01:55:12.520 --> 01:55:15.529
be best slated for multifamily and planned to simply sell

01:55:15.529 --> 01:55:17.399
that portion off to a multifamily

01:55:17.399 --> 01:55:20.000
developer.

01:55:20.000 --> 01:55:23.359
This is what they proposed and was going to be the accepted

01:55:23.359 --> 01:55:24.279
zoning plan.

01:55:24.279 --> 01:55:27.489
That portion in red is the multifamily site that they

01:55:27.489 --> 01:55:29.760
intended to get rid of because they're

01:55:29.760 --> 01:55:34.039
not multifamily developers.

01:55:34.039 --> 01:55:36.350
But when other interested parties with extensive

01:55:36.350 --> 01:55:38.479
development experience actually evaluated

01:55:38.479 --> 01:55:42.810
the subject property, we began to develop a different view

01:55:42.810 --> 01:55:44.000
of this site.

01:55:44.000 --> 01:55:46.329
After gaining development insight from several experienced

01:55:46.329 --> 01:55:47.600
parties, we came to understand

01:55:47.600 --> 01:55:50.560
why the site is uniquely situated as compared to other

01:55:50.560 --> 01:55:52.619
lands in the area and is not suitable

01:55:52.619 --> 01:55:55.579
for light industrial warehousing and other currently

01:55:55.579 --> 01:55:56.680
permitted uses.

01:55:56.680 --> 01:55:59.239
I'm sorry, I've repeated myself.

01:55:59.239 --> 01:56:01.239
Let me go back.

01:56:01.239 --> 01:56:04.000
Sorry, I was out of place.

01:56:04.000 --> 01:56:07.920
The community planning staff at the time that IDI proposed

01:56:07.920 --> 01:56:10.079
this zoning, they agreed with

01:56:10.079 --> 01:56:13.510
the proposed land uses under the IDI plan including the

01:56:13.510 --> 01:56:15.600
multifamily use for the subject

01:56:15.600 --> 01:56:17.199
property.

01:56:17.199 --> 01:56:19.789
But because of the downturn in the economic conditions in

01:56:19.789 --> 01:56:21.640
2008, the sales transaction

01:56:21.640 --> 01:56:25.630
ultimately did not go through and the zoning changes were

01:56:25.630 --> 01:56:27.960
not pursued by us at that time.

01:56:27.960 --> 01:56:30.609
More recently, Landmark approached us with interest in the

01:56:30.609 --> 01:56:31.600
subject property.

01:56:31.600 --> 01:56:35.140
They like IDI identified the subject property as being most

01:56:35.140 --> 01:56:37.000
suitable for multifamily.

01:56:37.000 --> 01:56:40.289
Before moving forward with this, we hired Kemley Horne

01:56:40.289 --> 01:56:42.100
consulting engineers to give

01:56:42.100 --> 01:56:45.520
us their evaluation of the best land use for the site.

01:56:45.520 --> 01:56:48.189
Kemley Horne has significant experience in industrial and

01:56:48.189 --> 01:56:49.699
other developments and assists

01:56:49.699 --> 01:56:53.359
major U.S. corporations in performing site analysis for

01:56:53.359 --> 01:56:55.399
various commercial projects.

01:56:55.399 --> 01:56:58.359
Kemley Horne confirmed the analysis of both IDI and Land

01:56:58.359 --> 01:56:58.880
mark.

01:56:58.880 --> 01:57:01.189
They concluded that industrial and warehouse users would

01:57:01.189 --> 01:57:02.439
never be interested in the subject

01:57:02.439 --> 01:57:06.250
property because those users inherently need flat land

01:57:06.250 --> 01:57:08.840
suitable for large single buildings

01:57:08.840 --> 01:57:12.359
without topographical variations, floodplain areas and

01:57:12.359 --> 01:57:13.960
drainage constraints.

01:57:13.960 --> 01:57:17.069
The subject property slopes significantly from the east and

01:57:17.069 --> 01:57:19.319
the west boundaries to the center

01:57:19.319 --> 01:57:22.689
and from the north to the south with a 15 to 20 acre lake

01:57:22.689 --> 01:57:24.159
located in the middle.

01:57:24.159 --> 01:57:27.159
It is affected by an area wide drainage channel running

01:57:27.159 --> 01:57:29.640
from the north to the south that essentially

01:57:29.640 --> 01:57:32.550
splits the track into two long very narrow rectangular

01:57:32.550 --> 01:57:34.520
pieces and contains approximately

01:57:34.520 --> 01:57:37.890
15 acres south of the lake dam which would be in the flood

01:57:37.890 --> 01:57:39.439
way and in all likelihood

01:57:39.439 --> 01:57:42.789
can never be developed for any purpose other than green

01:57:42.789 --> 01:57:43.420
space.

01:57:43.420 --> 01:57:46.329
Natural features such as these are precisely those which a

01:57:46.329 --> 01:57:48.159
potential industrial or warehouse

01:57:48.159 --> 01:57:50.520
developer wants to avoid.

01:57:50.520 --> 01:57:53.569
We recognize that other uses beyond light industrial and

01:57:53.569 --> 01:57:55.319
warehousing are permitted under

01:57:55.319 --> 01:58:00.170
the existing zoning classification such as hotels, motels,

01:58:00.170 --> 01:58:02.479
indoor recreation and medical

01:58:02.479 --> 01:58:04.220
facilities.

01:58:04.220 --> 01:58:06.920
But development of those type of facility and uses would

01:58:06.920 --> 01:58:08.359
substantially face the same

01:58:08.359 --> 01:58:11.430
issues and challenges in dealing with the natural features

01:58:11.430 --> 01:58:12.920
of the subject property.

01:58:12.920 --> 01:58:16.109
And because the subject property would not be located on a

01:58:16.109 --> 01:58:18.000
major roadway with high traffic

01:58:18.000 --> 01:58:21.460
volume it would never support such uses as hotels, motels,

01:58:21.460 --> 01:58:23.159
entertainment centers and

01:58:23.159 --> 01:58:25.039
restaurants in any case.

01:58:25.039 --> 01:58:27.960
Lakes, creeks and flood plain areas can be utilized as

01:58:27.960 --> 01:58:30.159
attractive green space and recreation

01:58:30.159 --> 01:58:33.229
areas to enhance the vibrant residential community but

01:58:33.229 --> 01:58:35.640
present nothing but obstacles to the needs

01:58:35.640 --> 01:58:39.359
of industrial, warehouse and other types of users.

01:58:39.359 --> 01:58:41.670
Development of the subject property for any uses other than

01:58:41.670 --> 01:58:42.920
the multifamily would present

01:58:42.920 --> 01:58:45.520
site characteristic issues and would fail to meet the

01:58:45.520 --> 01:58:47.319
threshold requirements as to their

01:58:47.319 --> 01:58:51.039
juxtaposition to major highways and roadways.

01:58:51.039 --> 01:58:53.810
We certainly recognize the need for land uses on the

01:58:53.810 --> 01:58:56.119
subject property that will be compatible

01:58:56.119 --> 01:58:59.409
with existing anticipated and industrial warehouse uses for

01:58:59.409 --> 01:59:00.840
other lands in the area.

01:59:00.840 --> 01:59:03.529
We are confident that the proposed zoning change will work

01:59:03.529 --> 01:59:04.760
for the subject property

01:59:04.760 --> 01:59:08.109
and will not create any conflict with any industrial users

01:59:08.109 --> 01:59:09.560
concentrated to the west

01:59:09.560 --> 01:59:10.800
of it.

01:59:10.800 --> 01:59:13.500
The construction of precision drive on the west boundary

01:59:13.500 --> 01:59:14.920
lane of the subject property

01:59:14.920 --> 01:59:17.699
along with the drainage channel on the south boundary line,

01:59:17.699 --> 01:59:19.279
the Kansas City southern railway

01:59:19.279 --> 01:59:22.260
on the east boundary and Oak Street on the north segregates

01:59:22.260 --> 01:59:23.640
the subject property in a

01:59:23.640 --> 01:59:26.529
manner that will give this site its own identity with

01:59:26.529 --> 01:59:28.720
physical boundaries that will make it

01:59:28.720 --> 01:59:33.340
distinctly separate and apart from the industrial areas to

01:59:33.340 --> 01:59:34.319
the west.

01:59:34.319 --> 01:59:37.300
While we respect and support the Denton 2030 plan and

01:59:37.300 --> 01:59:39.239
understand city planning department

01:59:39.239 --> 01:59:42.180
simply following it as the basis for its current

01:59:42.180 --> 01:59:45.520
recommendation, the 2030 Denton plan is by

01:59:45.520 --> 01:59:48.319
its nature conceptual in providing general guidance for the

01:59:48.319 --> 01:59:49.600
future development of the

01:59:49.600 --> 01:59:51.199
city within the city.

01:59:51.199 --> 01:59:54.779
It is a good starting point and it is an important document

01:59:54.779 --> 01:59:56.840
but it by no means tells the whole

01:59:56.840 --> 02:00:00.090
story and how the city should be developed in every

02:00:00.090 --> 02:00:01.000
instance.

02:00:01.000 --> 02:00:04.000
While a well thought out concept plan certainly provides

02:00:04.000 --> 02:00:05.880
the critical foundation to foster

02:00:05.880 --> 02:00:08.779
good development, it is just as critical for the city to

02:00:08.779 --> 02:00:10.560
recognize unique dynamics that

02:00:10.560 --> 02:00:15.479
apply to specific situations as actual development unfolds.

02:00:15.479 --> 02:00:18.180
We know from dealings with the city on prior development

02:00:18.180 --> 02:00:19.760
situations evolving our lands

02:00:19.760 --> 02:00:22.350
that city staff often tends to be overly dogmatic in

02:00:22.350 --> 02:00:24.640
applying conceptual principles under the

02:00:24.640 --> 02:00:28.409
mobility plan, the city environmental sensitive area map

02:00:28.409 --> 02:00:31.800
and the Denton 2030 plan within sufficient

02:00:31.800 --> 02:00:36.119
analysis of particular development dynamics and constraints

02:00:36.119 --> 02:00:36.399
.

02:00:36.399 --> 02:00:38.880
While the pursuit of development in the city without these

02:00:38.880 --> 02:00:40.319
concept tools as a guiding force

02:00:40.319 --> 02:00:43.550
would be dangerous, ignoring and failing to properly

02:00:43.550 --> 02:00:46.159
analyze specific development constraints

02:00:46.159 --> 02:00:49.800
and opportunities for specific development situations could

02:00:49.800 --> 02:00:51.359
be just as detrimental.

02:00:51.359 --> 02:00:54.069
We need smart and sensible development decisions based on

02:00:54.069 --> 02:00:55.800
actual realities in the context of

02:00:55.800 --> 02:00:59.579
the intended goals and principles laid down under those

02:00:59.579 --> 02:01:00.880
concept tools.

02:01:00.880 --> 02:01:04.069
As highlighted in my discussion, an in-depth examination of

02:01:04.069 --> 02:01:07.439
the subject property by experienced

02:01:07.439 --> 02:01:10.619
development professionals clearly reveals that the existing

02:01:10.619 --> 02:01:12.159
permitted uses are not viable

02:01:12.159 --> 02:01:14.880
on this site and multifamily use provides the best

02:01:14.880 --> 02:01:17.119
opportunity for the site to contribute

02:01:17.119 --> 02:01:24.159
to the needs and the tax base of this community.

02:01:24.159 --> 02:01:26.750
We believe the zoning change should be approved for the

02:01:26.750 --> 02:01:28.239
good of the area, the good of the

02:01:28.239 --> 02:01:33.039
city and respectfully request your approval.

02:01:33.039 --> 02:01:34.039
Thank you.

02:01:34.039 --> 02:01:35.039
A couple of questions.

02:01:35.039 --> 02:01:36.039
I'm sorry.

02:01:36.039 --> 02:01:37.840
I burned up all that time.

02:01:37.840 --> 02:01:39.680
We appreciate your comments.

02:01:39.680 --> 02:01:40.680
Commissioner Beck.

02:01:40.680 --> 02:01:41.680
Thank you, Chair.

02:01:41.680 --> 02:01:42.680
Thank you, Mr. Baker, for your presentation.

02:01:42.680 --> 02:01:47.210
It actually answered a lot of things for me and makes I see

02:01:47.210 --> 02:01:49.560
now why we're looking at someone

02:01:49.560 --> 02:01:52.640
that's actually looking at residential development in an

02:01:52.640 --> 02:01:53.800
industrial area.

02:01:53.800 --> 02:01:58.100
I see that you're trying to address the issue for housing

02:01:58.100 --> 02:02:00.520
for college kids, and I appreciate

02:02:00.520 --> 02:02:01.520
that.

02:02:01.520 --> 02:02:04.920
This development, I've got great admiration for it.

02:02:04.920 --> 02:02:06.840
I love the designs and everything.

02:02:06.840 --> 02:02:11.140
I am having a problem with it being where it is, and I

02:02:11.140 --> 02:02:13.840
would ask you why the buildings

02:02:13.840 --> 02:02:16.590
that you can use, offices, hotels, vehicle repair, research

02:02:16.590 --> 02:02:17.920
facilities, limited retail

02:02:17.920 --> 02:02:23.489
and restaurants, why those smaller building units pose a

02:02:23.489 --> 02:02:26.640
problem for this landscape area

02:02:26.640 --> 02:02:31.840
where the individual apartment complexes don't.

02:02:31.840 --> 02:02:35.069
If we're talking square footage, why is there basically

02:02:35.069 --> 02:02:35.680
equal?

02:02:35.680 --> 02:02:38.930
It's a matter of the ... I'll let Mr. Grant talk more to

02:02:38.930 --> 02:02:40.880
that, but it has to do with the

02:02:40.880 --> 02:02:43.800
kind of development it is.

02:02:43.800 --> 02:02:50.430
The apartment, the multifamily can work with the topography

02:02:50.430 --> 02:02:50.920
.

02:02:50.920 --> 02:02:53.270
Industrial commercial uses, they need pretty much the same

02:02:53.270 --> 02:02:53.720
thing.

02:02:53.720 --> 02:02:54.720
They need flat land.

02:02:54.720 --> 02:02:58.220
They don't need drainage running through it, and they need

02:02:58.220 --> 02:02:59.640
flat land to build on.

02:02:59.640 --> 02:03:06.060
They can't afford to ... The economics of doing the dirt

02:03:06.060 --> 02:03:08.439
work breaks the budget.

02:03:08.439 --> 02:03:11.590
I guess what I'm visualizing is say like an office park in

02:03:11.590 --> 02:03:13.760
this area with building sizes

02:03:13.760 --> 02:03:18.619
... The footing, if you would, is basically going to be the

02:03:18.619 --> 02:03:21.000
same as a unit of apartments

02:03:21.000 --> 02:03:26.319
there, where they're spaced about the same too.

02:03:26.319 --> 02:03:28.399
I don't understand why that wouldn't work.

02:03:28.399 --> 02:03:30.579
I can see where some big industrial complex would have a

02:03:30.579 --> 02:03:32.239
problem, but when you're essentially

02:03:32.239 --> 02:03:38.670
building commercial buildings that have about the same foot

02:03:38.670 --> 02:03:41.840
as an apartment complex, I'm

02:03:41.840 --> 02:03:45.600
not sure why it becomes a problem with one and not the

02:03:45.600 --> 02:03:46.319
other.

02:03:46.319 --> 02:03:49.420
My understanding from the engineers is the topography is a

02:03:49.420 --> 02:03:51.039
big factor, and it all comes

02:03:51.039 --> 02:03:52.920
down to dollars and cents.

02:03:52.920 --> 02:03:55.119
It works for residential.

02:03:55.119 --> 02:03:56.640
It works for the multifamily.

02:03:56.640 --> 02:03:59.039
It doesn't work for commercial.

02:03:59.039 --> 02:04:03.250
Also, the problem is commercial ... It's a matter of

02:04:03.250 --> 02:04:04.439
economics too.

02:04:04.439 --> 02:04:08.359
Precision road, when built, is essentially a fixed road.

02:04:08.359 --> 02:04:09.640
It dead ends in Oak Street.

02:04:09.640 --> 02:04:11.439
It dead ends at airport.

02:04:11.439 --> 02:04:13.800
It doesn't take anybody anywhere.

02:04:13.800 --> 02:04:16.300
Those kinds of developments want to be on roadways that go

02:04:16.300 --> 02:04:17.760
someplace, that take traffic

02:04:17.760 --> 02:04:22.409
through them, and that makes sense on the way people travel

02:04:22.409 --> 02:04:22.760
.

02:04:22.760 --> 02:04:25.439
Nobody's going to make a loop around to that area.

02:04:25.439 --> 02:04:29.000
It makes no sense for restaurants.

02:04:29.000 --> 02:04:32.319
We could hold it forever.

02:04:32.319 --> 02:04:35.399
We could build the roadway, but it's not like the movie.

02:04:35.399 --> 02:04:36.800
We build it, they will come.

02:04:36.800 --> 02:04:39.390
No, they're going to go like over ways of ranch, where

02:04:39.390 --> 02:04:41.000
there's a lot of through streets

02:04:41.000 --> 02:04:44.289
and a lot of traffic, where they know they're going to pick

02:04:44.289 --> 02:04:45.159
up people.

02:04:45.159 --> 02:04:48.210
Nobody's going to be traveling just for pleasure over in

02:04:48.210 --> 02:04:49.000
that area.

02:04:49.000 --> 02:04:51.079
It's industrial.

02:04:51.079 --> 02:04:53.430
It's just if you're going to be there, that's why you're

02:04:53.430 --> 02:04:54.399
going to go there.

02:04:54.399 --> 02:04:56.750
I will defer to you because you're more the expert on this

02:04:56.750 --> 02:04:57.319
than I am.

02:04:57.319 --> 02:05:01.090
I'm just still having a little bit of problem accepting

02:05:01.090 --> 02:05:02.439
that completely.

02:05:02.439 --> 02:05:04.479
I understand that you're trying to address the student

02:05:04.479 --> 02:05:05.279
population here.

02:05:05.279 --> 02:05:08.430
I think that's great, but this isn't going to be limited

02:05:08.430 --> 02:05:09.960
strictly to students.

02:05:09.960 --> 02:05:13.319
You probably will have working families in there with kids.

02:05:13.319 --> 02:05:16.100
Again, this area being close to the interstate and a

02:05:16.100 --> 02:05:17.840
railroad track, I'm concerned about

02:05:17.840 --> 02:05:18.840
that too.

02:05:18.840 --> 02:05:23.210
How would you ameliorate that concern where you're dealing

02:05:23.210 --> 02:05:25.920
with families with small children

02:05:25.920 --> 02:05:27.840
in an area like this?

02:05:27.840 --> 02:05:31.600
I don't see why it would be a problem.

02:05:31.600 --> 02:05:35.439
Traffic laws, last time I checked, we all have to play by

02:05:35.439 --> 02:05:36.680
the same rules.

02:05:36.680 --> 02:05:39.649
Whether you're driving a truck or an automobile, you have

02:05:39.649 --> 02:05:41.279
to respect the rules of the road

02:05:41.279 --> 02:05:42.279
and all the other things.

02:05:42.279 --> 02:05:45.130
Parents will always warn their kids to stay away from the

02:05:45.130 --> 02:05:46.840
railroad tracks, but how many

02:05:46.840 --> 02:05:47.840
times?

02:05:47.840 --> 02:05:52.430
Well, I can tell you that railroad track is probably 50

02:05:52.430 --> 02:05:54.039
feet up in the air.

02:05:54.039 --> 02:05:56.079
Nobody's going to play on it, much less walk over.

02:05:56.079 --> 02:05:58.130
That would have been a great challenge for me as a kid

02:05:58.130 --> 02:05:59.319
scaling that mountain.

02:05:59.319 --> 02:06:01.369
That would have been a great challenge for me as a kid, but

02:06:01.369 --> 02:06:02.520
I hear what you're saying.

02:06:02.520 --> 02:06:04.520
I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer that.

02:06:04.520 --> 02:06:05.520
Okay, I understand.

02:06:05.520 --> 02:06:08.880
It's just, I think there's protectors there that we haven't

02:06:08.880 --> 02:06:11.319
probably looked at deep enough.

02:06:11.319 --> 02:06:15.640
We have, well, all I can say to you on that point is there

02:06:15.640 --> 02:06:18.560
already are existing developments

02:06:18.560 --> 02:06:20.439
this city has put in by railroads.

02:06:20.439 --> 02:06:23.449
When you look downtown area, you've got two multifamily

02:06:23.449 --> 02:06:25.199
units within spitting distance

02:06:25.199 --> 02:06:26.199
of the city.

02:06:26.199 --> 02:06:27.199
No, no, I understand that.

02:06:27.199 --> 02:06:28.949
The family in Northern, which goes through this town

02:06:28.949 --> 02:06:29.640
several times a day.

02:06:29.640 --> 02:06:30.640
And I'm not disputing that.

02:06:30.640 --> 02:06:34.079
I'm just as uncomfortable with those as I would be creating

02:06:34.079 --> 02:06:35.399
a whole new one too.

02:06:35.399 --> 02:06:39.369
In the, in the, in the Rose lawn area, there's two main

02:06:39.369 --> 02:06:41.920
tracks, Kansas City Southern and

02:06:41.920 --> 02:06:42.920
Union Pacific.

02:06:42.920 --> 02:06:43.920
Right.

02:06:43.920 --> 02:06:44.920
Okay.

02:06:44.920 --> 02:06:47.000
One other little small question and it might be for one of

02:06:47.000 --> 02:06:48.399
the other gentlemen, the material

02:06:48.399 --> 02:06:51.119
that you're using, I didn't see any brick on these units.

02:06:51.119 --> 02:06:57.510
So it's all siding and I assume that's going to be hardy

02:06:57.510 --> 02:06:58.760
plank.

02:06:58.760 --> 02:06:59.760
Thank you, Mr. Baker.

02:06:59.760 --> 02:07:04.960
Yeah, it'll be brick masonry up above the water level.

02:07:04.960 --> 02:07:05.960
Okay.

02:07:05.960 --> 02:07:08.850
We do built up slabs and this kind of answers your question

02:07:08.850 --> 02:07:10.439
earlier about the footprints

02:07:10.439 --> 02:07:13.199
because we did built up slabs so you can stagger the

02:07:13.199 --> 02:07:14.039
buildings.

02:07:14.039 --> 02:07:17.500
I mean, these, these footprints are actually, I mean, they

02:07:17.500 --> 02:07:19.760
're single unit buildings or duplexes

02:07:19.760 --> 02:07:20.760
or quadplexes.

02:07:20.760 --> 02:07:23.420
So they're, they're really not like a typical gardens out

02:07:23.420 --> 02:07:24.520
apartment complex.

02:07:24.520 --> 02:07:27.229
We've got a big footprint that may be similar to like an

02:07:27.229 --> 02:07:29.000
office building or something.

02:07:29.000 --> 02:07:30.000
These are very small.

02:07:30.000 --> 02:07:32.680
What are, what is the biggest unit should be building?

02:07:32.680 --> 02:07:33.680
Fourplex type?

02:07:33.680 --> 02:07:37.159
I believe in the plan is that there's a six unit building.

02:07:37.159 --> 02:07:38.159
Six units.

02:07:38.159 --> 02:07:39.159
Okay.

02:07:39.159 --> 02:07:40.159
Okay.

02:07:40.159 --> 02:07:41.159
Yeah, it's like six town names.

02:07:41.159 --> 02:07:42.159
Square footage would be for that whole thing.

02:07:42.159 --> 02:07:43.159
I'd have to check.

02:07:43.159 --> 02:07:46.520
I think the square footage of the building, I mean, it's

02:07:46.520 --> 02:07:48.359
obvious it's three stories.

02:07:48.359 --> 02:07:51.359
Well no, let's just say the ground, at the ground level.

02:07:51.359 --> 02:07:52.359
Yeah.

02:07:52.359 --> 02:07:53.359
Foot, the footprint.

02:07:53.359 --> 02:07:54.359
I'd have to check on it.

02:07:54.359 --> 02:07:55.359
I don't know if I'm going to have time.

02:07:55.359 --> 02:07:56.359
Okay.

02:07:56.359 --> 02:07:57.359
Let me put you on the spot a little bit here.

02:07:57.359 --> 02:07:58.680
Are we looking possibly at affordable housing here?

02:07:58.680 --> 02:08:01.140
I mean, I know you're, you're targeting for students and

02:08:01.140 --> 02:08:02.640
the Lord knows they, they need,

02:08:02.640 --> 02:08:05.729
but I mean, are we looking at reasonable price units here

02:08:05.729 --> 02:08:07.359
and I'm out of place in asking

02:08:07.359 --> 02:08:08.359
this right now or?

02:08:08.359 --> 02:08:09.359
Yeah, I mean.

02:08:09.359 --> 02:08:10.359
We are getting kind of outside the boundaries.

02:08:10.359 --> 02:08:11.359
Okay.

02:08:11.359 --> 02:08:12.359
Way.

02:08:12.359 --> 02:08:13.359
It'll be market rate.

02:08:13.359 --> 02:08:14.359
Okay.

02:08:14.359 --> 02:08:15.359
Okay.

02:08:15.359 --> 02:08:16.359
Thank you, sir.

02:08:16.359 --> 02:08:19.079
So I've got several other questions.

02:08:19.079 --> 02:08:20.600
I don't know which of you gentlemen will be for

02:08:20.600 --> 02:08:21.439
Commissioner Smith.

02:08:21.439 --> 02:08:22.439
Thank you, Chair.

02:08:22.439 --> 02:08:24.960
Well, sorry, you Jason, you're under the mic.

02:08:24.960 --> 02:08:27.380
Just to address some of the Mr. Beck brought up, this is

02:08:27.380 --> 02:08:28.319
student housing?

02:08:28.319 --> 02:08:29.319
Yeah.

02:08:29.319 --> 02:08:30.319
Correct.

02:08:30.319 --> 02:08:31.319
So it's designed and marketed to students.

02:08:31.319 --> 02:08:32.319
Got it.

02:08:32.319 --> 02:08:34.199
So are the ones you have now, I can't, the Republic, I

02:08:34.199 --> 02:08:35.640
think is what you said it is currently

02:08:35.640 --> 02:08:36.640
now.

02:08:36.640 --> 02:08:38.479
Is it going to be, I don't know how the Republic set up,

02:08:38.479 --> 02:08:39.840
but most student housing, the way

02:08:39.840 --> 02:08:42.479
you can't necessarily say these are only for students or

02:08:42.479 --> 02:08:44.199
some policing, there's some Texas

02:08:44.199 --> 02:08:47.680
real estate law issues on that, but you can design the

02:08:47.680 --> 02:08:50.079
apartment to where it is individual

02:08:50.079 --> 02:08:53.210
with each individual inside the bedroom has its own

02:08:53.210 --> 02:08:54.039
bathroom.

02:08:54.039 --> 02:08:57.760
So it is designed to be more for individual living.

02:08:57.760 --> 02:08:58.760
Is it the same thing in your guys?

02:08:58.760 --> 02:09:00.840
Is that what you're building now?

02:09:00.840 --> 02:09:03.159
So each unit, the bedrooms are all the same size.

02:09:03.159 --> 02:09:04.520
There's not like a master suite.

02:09:04.520 --> 02:09:05.520
There's no dining room.

02:09:05.520 --> 02:09:08.949
And you're right, like a typical unit would be a four

02:09:08.949 --> 02:09:11.199
bedroom, four bathroom with the

02:09:11.199 --> 02:09:13.159
bathrooms inside and then like a common area.

02:09:13.159 --> 02:09:14.920
So they're not legally, of course, not legally restricted

02:09:14.920 --> 02:09:15.960
to student housing, but they are

02:09:15.960 --> 02:09:19.720
designed for student housing, probably not encouraging for

02:09:19.720 --> 02:09:21.520
family use with small children

02:09:21.520 --> 02:09:23.840
who like to play on railroad tracks.

02:09:23.840 --> 02:09:24.840
Okay.

02:09:24.840 --> 02:09:29.189
So the question I have for you was brought up during work

02:09:29.189 --> 02:09:31.760
session, the ball fields that

02:09:31.760 --> 02:09:33.850
are down there, as Mr. Vincent liked to refer to them, I

02:09:33.850 --> 02:09:35.199
don't know if they're ball fields

02:09:35.199 --> 02:09:36.760
or soccer fields or whatever, but-

02:09:36.760 --> 02:09:37.760
Recreational fields.

02:09:37.760 --> 02:09:38.760
Okay.

02:09:38.760 --> 02:09:41.520
Those will be downstream.

02:09:41.520 --> 02:09:42.520
Is that a worry at all?

02:09:42.520 --> 02:09:45.109
I mean, if this is something we're approving and putting up

02:09:45.109 --> 02:09:46.359
there, is that an issue of

02:09:46.359 --> 02:09:48.239
having it downstream where flooding can come in?

02:09:48.239 --> 02:09:49.239
Can I kick that one to Dan?

02:09:49.239 --> 02:09:50.239
Yeah, come on, Dan.

02:09:50.239 --> 02:09:51.239
Thank you.

02:09:51.239 --> 02:09:52.239
Good evening, Commissioner.

02:09:52.239 --> 02:10:00.819
Dan Grant, Kimley-Horn, 13755 Dwell Road, Suite 700 Dallas,

02:10:00.819 --> 02:10:01.880
Texas.

02:10:01.880 --> 02:10:03.720
You asked about downstream.

02:10:03.720 --> 02:10:05.680
I'm an engineer, so I like to talk off maps.

02:10:05.680 --> 02:10:15.390
So Haley, you might have to help me get back up to your

02:10:15.390 --> 02:10:18.720
presentation.

02:10:18.720 --> 02:10:21.960
So let's actually go to the actual land plan.

02:10:21.960 --> 02:10:23.479
Let's speak off of this one.

02:10:23.479 --> 02:10:26.300
In short, I think your question is more concerned about

02:10:26.300 --> 02:10:28.039
what's happening in this zone.

02:10:28.039 --> 02:10:30.770
Yeah, I guess the question's more about, I don't care if

02:10:30.770 --> 02:10:32.199
you guys put soccer fields

02:10:32.199 --> 02:10:35.460
or baseball fields, but just that it's downstream and if we

02:10:35.460 --> 02:10:37.319
did approve it, there could be a

02:10:37.319 --> 02:10:39.989
heavy rain that could fully wash out the entire development

02:10:39.989 --> 02:10:40.199
.

02:10:40.199 --> 02:10:43.020
Today, let's talk about the end phases.

02:10:43.020 --> 02:10:44.439
We have this currently phase in.

02:10:44.439 --> 02:10:48.500
Phase one here in green, which is everything we'll call

02:10:48.500 --> 02:10:50.960
high and dry to the west side of

02:10:50.960 --> 02:10:51.960
Lake.

02:10:51.960 --> 02:10:55.039
Phase two of multifamily and phase three are both gonna be

02:10:55.039 --> 02:10:56.600
conditioned as presented by

02:10:56.600 --> 02:11:01.119
staff on some continuing analysis of the dam, which there

02:11:01.119 --> 02:11:03.439
is an existing TCEQ dam on the

02:11:03.439 --> 02:11:06.159
property that retains Razor Lake.

02:11:06.159 --> 02:11:10.479
You're looking at the limits of Razor Lake within the blue

02:11:10.479 --> 02:11:11.239
lines.

02:11:11.239 --> 02:11:14.439
The dam would need to be reconstructed.

02:11:14.439 --> 02:11:18.210
And downstream of that, one of the highest and best uses of

02:11:18.210 --> 02:11:19.840
land downstream or in an

02:11:19.840 --> 02:11:23.039
encumbered area by floodplain is recreation.

02:11:23.039 --> 02:11:24.039
Perfect.

02:11:24.039 --> 02:11:27.390
So that's the intent here, is to create a use that is

02:11:27.390 --> 02:11:29.479
compliant with the highest and

02:11:29.479 --> 02:11:30.479
best for the animals.

02:11:30.479 --> 02:11:31.479
Great.

02:11:31.479 --> 02:11:32.479
Thank you, Dan.

02:11:32.479 --> 02:11:33.479
Mr. Baker.

02:11:33.479 --> 02:11:38.479
This is a zoning case, right?

02:11:38.479 --> 02:11:39.479
Yes.

02:11:39.479 --> 02:11:43.960
This, you've talked a lot about the history of the sale of

02:11:43.960 --> 02:11:46.399
this land, the possible sale

02:11:46.399 --> 02:11:50.329
of this land, correct, and that you've had other industrial

02:11:50.329 --> 02:11:52.079
manufacturers try to come

02:11:52.079 --> 02:11:54.279
in and buy it and it was not feasible, correct?

02:11:54.279 --> 02:11:55.279
Just to get clarification.

02:11:55.279 --> 02:11:56.279
No one's ever looked at this land.

02:11:56.279 --> 02:11:57.279
No one's?

02:11:57.279 --> 02:11:59.390
Just because they just, they knew right off the bat that

02:11:59.390 --> 02:12:00.680
there was no way they could ever

02:12:00.680 --> 02:12:03.979
do it because of the way, just the feasibility of the cost

02:12:03.979 --> 02:12:05.720
of having to move dirt to make

02:12:05.720 --> 02:12:08.760
it usable for manufacturing use.

02:12:08.760 --> 02:12:09.760
That's right.

02:12:09.760 --> 02:12:10.760
Okay.

02:12:10.760 --> 02:12:11.760
Currently, is it ag exempt?

02:12:11.760 --> 02:12:12.760
Yes.

02:12:12.760 --> 02:12:13.760
Okay.

02:12:13.760 --> 02:12:14.760
So currently it is untaxable land?

02:12:14.760 --> 02:12:15.760
No.

02:12:15.760 --> 02:12:16.760
Well, it's in ag use.

02:12:16.760 --> 02:12:17.760
Correct.

02:12:17.760 --> 02:12:20.460
Which is, as you know, it's a reduced tax value based on ag

02:12:20.460 --> 02:12:21.359
value, which is-

02:12:21.359 --> 02:12:22.359
Sorry, miscommunication.

02:12:22.359 --> 02:12:26.359
I think we chip in about 50 bucks a year to the tax bill.

02:12:26.359 --> 02:12:28.359
Thank you very much for that $50.

02:12:28.359 --> 02:12:29.359
Okay.

02:12:29.359 --> 02:12:32.359
And a lot of manure.

02:12:32.359 --> 02:12:33.359
Hey, that works.

02:12:33.359 --> 02:12:34.359
All right.

02:12:34.359 --> 02:12:37.359
That's all the questions I have for me, Mr. Baker.

02:12:37.359 --> 02:12:38.359
Thank you.

02:12:38.359 --> 02:12:39.359
All right.

02:12:39.359 --> 02:12:40.359
Thank you.

02:12:40.359 --> 02:12:41.359
Thank you, sir.

02:12:41.359 --> 02:12:42.359
You're welcome.

02:12:42.359 --> 02:12:45.319
I'm just going to, as the chair, kind of bring us back to

02:12:45.319 --> 02:12:47.159
focus that this is a zoning case

02:12:47.159 --> 02:12:49.279
that we're considering at this time.

02:12:49.279 --> 02:12:52.710
And it's nice to have some of these other exhibits for us

02:12:52.710 --> 02:12:54.640
to see what the possibilities

02:12:54.640 --> 02:12:57.560
are to evaluate what another use might be on this property.

02:12:57.560 --> 02:13:00.460
So I'd like to ask the commission, let's pull it in and

02:13:00.460 --> 02:13:01.560
keep it our time.

02:13:01.560 --> 02:13:04.579
We have a lot of people here before us tonight with a lot

02:13:04.579 --> 02:13:06.520
of other items, and it's almost

02:13:06.520 --> 02:13:07.520
eight o'clock.

02:13:07.520 --> 02:13:11.979
I'd like us to stay focused on the zoning items at this

02:13:11.979 --> 02:13:12.760
time.

02:13:12.760 --> 02:13:16.750
I might add to that we have a separate public hearing for

02:13:16.750 --> 02:13:19.119
the SUP, which is to determine

02:13:19.119 --> 02:13:21.569
whether or not they would be able to have a multifamily on

02:13:21.569 --> 02:13:22.399
the property.

02:13:22.399 --> 02:13:25.750
So you, of course, would be allotted some time for each

02:13:25.750 --> 02:13:27.800
item, but you may want to choose

02:13:27.800 --> 02:13:31.819
which item is most important to you just for time's sake

02:13:31.819 --> 02:13:35.279
and speak on that particular item.

02:13:35.279 --> 02:13:36.479
Okay.

02:13:36.479 --> 02:13:39.560
And with those two clarifications, Commissioner Rosell.

02:13:39.560 --> 02:13:41.439
Thank you, chair.

02:13:41.439 --> 02:13:45.409
This might not redirect us wholly, but I'd like two

02:13:45.409 --> 02:13:46.600
questions.

02:13:46.600 --> 02:13:47.600
Jason, I didn't get your last name.

02:13:47.600 --> 02:13:52.880
We can ask you two questions real fast.

02:13:52.880 --> 02:13:55.670
Does landmark construction do any single-resident, single-

02:13:55.670 --> 02:13:56.680
room occupancies?

02:13:56.680 --> 02:13:57.680
No.

02:13:57.680 --> 02:13:59.439
Oh, yeah, sorry.

02:13:59.439 --> 02:14:02.800
All the rooms are going to be single-occupant restricted.

02:14:02.800 --> 02:14:03.800
Okay.

02:14:03.800 --> 02:14:08.319
The retreat to the Republic, was that a rebrand or a sell?

02:14:08.319 --> 02:14:09.600
That was a rebrand.

02:14:09.600 --> 02:14:12.920
Well, we did sell it and they rebranded it.

02:14:12.920 --> 02:14:16.399
Does landmark typically hold and then sell later?

02:14:16.399 --> 02:14:18.039
What's your ownership duration typically?

02:14:18.039 --> 02:14:19.880
We probably, we do both.

02:14:19.880 --> 02:14:23.640
We hold stuff in perpetuity and then we sell some

02:14:23.640 --> 02:14:25.399
properties as well.

02:14:25.399 --> 02:14:26.399
Okay.

02:14:26.399 --> 02:14:27.399
Thank you.

02:14:27.399 --> 02:14:28.399
Sure.

02:14:28.399 --> 02:14:29.399
Commissioner Sanchez.

02:14:29.399 --> 02:14:32.659
Tim asked the question I was going to ask about the housing

02:14:32.659 --> 02:14:34.079
, student housing.

02:14:34.079 --> 02:14:35.079
Okay.

02:14:35.079 --> 02:14:36.079
Okay.

02:14:36.079 --> 02:14:37.079
It's been taken care of.

02:14:37.079 --> 02:14:38.079
Great.

02:14:38.079 --> 02:14:39.079
Okay.

02:14:39.079 --> 02:14:42.100
This is a public hearing and the only other, I don't have

02:14:42.100 --> 02:14:43.199
any other cards.

02:14:43.199 --> 02:14:45.380
So if there's anyone else who would like to come forward

02:14:45.380 --> 02:14:47.000
tonight and speak on this item,

02:14:47.000 --> 02:14:50.000
please do so at this time.

02:14:50.000 --> 02:14:56.050
Well, I have a bunch and if I'm, missed your name, if you

02:14:56.050 --> 02:14:59.319
'll give me your name and address,

02:14:59.319 --> 02:15:00.319
I will.

02:15:00.319 --> 02:15:01.319
I'm Jim Flikes.

02:15:01.319 --> 02:15:04.319
I represent Peterbilt Motors, 3200 Airport Road.

02:15:04.319 --> 02:15:07.840
And I want to speak in opposition of the zoning change.

02:15:07.840 --> 02:15:08.840
Found it.

02:15:08.840 --> 02:15:09.840
Thank you.

02:15:09.840 --> 02:15:14.760
Manufacturing and industrial facilities require a buffer.

02:15:14.760 --> 02:15:20.260
I-35 and the railroad track provide that buffer from the

02:15:20.260 --> 02:15:24.079
residential areas in the university.

02:15:24.079 --> 02:15:27.840
We also own the area that's directly across the street from

02:15:27.840 --> 02:15:30.199
where these are, this multifamily

02:15:30.199 --> 02:15:33.439
will be constructed.

02:15:33.439 --> 02:15:37.000
We currently have 60 receiving docks in our facility.

02:15:37.000 --> 02:15:43.399
We move about a hundred tractor trailers a day per truck.

02:15:43.399 --> 02:15:48.199
So we're moving material all day long from all over Denton

02:15:48.199 --> 02:15:49.960
and north of here.

02:15:49.960 --> 02:15:53.729
So precision drive going through would be a good thing for

02:15:53.729 --> 02:15:55.399
us because we need another

02:15:55.399 --> 02:15:56.399
outlet.

02:15:56.399 --> 02:16:00.010
I mean, if anybody's ever been over there at Shift Change

02:16:00.010 --> 02:16:02.560
on Airport Road, it's a zone.

02:16:02.560 --> 02:16:04.850
Western Boulevard has relieved that quite a bit, but what

02:16:04.850 --> 02:16:05.880
we're getting now is people

02:16:05.880 --> 02:16:09.170
going up Western, cutting back through Jim Crystal and

02:16:09.170 --> 02:16:11.359
going over Oak Street to I-35.

02:16:11.359 --> 02:16:14.760
So this would help relieve some of the traffic congestion.

02:16:14.760 --> 02:16:19.350
But when you start putting pedestrians and bicycles and

02:16:19.350 --> 02:16:22.000
other things in a roadway, that

02:16:22.000 --> 02:16:25.180
you've got that much traffic going down, it presents a

02:16:25.180 --> 02:16:26.199
safety issue.

02:16:26.199 --> 02:16:30.159
And that's where our concerns are.

02:16:30.159 --> 02:16:31.899
Industrial environments, you talked a little bit about

02:16:31.899 --> 02:16:32.200
noise.

02:16:32.200 --> 02:16:35.639
Yeah, we have to comply with the noise ordinance, but still

02:16:35.639 --> 02:16:37.600
you've got lighting and we're a

02:16:37.600 --> 02:16:39.559
24-hour, seven-day-a-week operation.

02:16:39.559 --> 02:16:43.219
So it would be an issue.

02:16:43.219 --> 02:16:48.120
We have 250 acres out on Airport Road between three

02:16:48.120 --> 02:16:49.920
different sites.

02:16:49.920 --> 02:16:50.920
Can I answer any questions?

02:16:50.920 --> 02:16:51.920
Yes.

02:16:51.920 --> 02:16:52.920
Commissioner Beck.

02:16:52.920 --> 02:16:53.920
Thank you, Chair.

02:16:53.920 --> 02:16:54.920
Thank you.

02:16:54.920 --> 02:16:55.920
Jim Wyatt?

02:16:55.920 --> 02:16:56.920
Fights.

02:16:56.920 --> 02:16:57.920
Fights.

02:16:57.920 --> 02:16:58.920
Thank you for coming down.

02:16:58.920 --> 02:17:01.840
So am I hearing you right that building this residential

02:17:01.840 --> 02:17:03.959
development creates future problems

02:17:03.959 --> 02:17:08.399
for you from an industrial construction?

02:17:08.399 --> 02:17:11.440
We feel like the potential is there just because of the

02:17:11.440 --> 02:17:13.879
residents and what you're putting in,

02:17:13.879 --> 02:17:15.840
the density that you're putting in there.

02:17:15.840 --> 02:17:18.129
And that was a concern I raised earlier and I was wondering

02:17:18.129 --> 02:17:19.520
if you concurred with that,

02:17:19.520 --> 02:17:22.159
that this imposes on you a little bit now.

02:17:22.159 --> 02:17:23.159
It could.

02:17:23.159 --> 02:17:24.159
And down the road.

02:17:24.159 --> 02:17:25.159
Okay.

02:17:25.159 --> 02:17:26.159
Okay.

02:17:26.159 --> 02:17:27.159
Thank you.

02:17:27.159 --> 02:17:28.159
Thank you.

02:17:28.159 --> 02:17:29.159
I'll see you on the questions.

02:17:29.159 --> 02:17:31.360
Thank you, sir, for your comments.

02:17:31.360 --> 02:17:32.360
This is a public hearing.

02:17:32.360 --> 02:17:34.520
Anyone else who'd like to speak on this item, please come

02:17:34.520 --> 02:17:35.680
forward and give us your name

02:17:35.680 --> 02:17:39.110
and address and fill out a card for us if you haven't

02:17:39.110 --> 02:17:39.959
already.

02:17:39.959 --> 02:17:41.479
My name is Kate Linus.

02:17:41.479 --> 02:17:44.680
I live at 1120 North Locust, Denton.

02:17:44.680 --> 02:17:46.040
And I did not fill out a card.

02:17:46.040 --> 02:17:47.040
I'm sorry.

02:17:47.040 --> 02:17:48.040
I wasn't actually going to speak on that.

02:17:48.040 --> 02:17:49.040
You can fill in after you speak.

02:17:49.040 --> 02:17:50.040
Thank you.

02:17:50.040 --> 02:17:51.040
Okay.

02:17:51.040 --> 02:17:54.579
There had been a number of questions from the members of

02:17:54.579 --> 02:17:56.360
the PNC regarding the TURS

02:17:56.360 --> 02:17:58.200
and how long that was going to be.

02:17:58.200 --> 02:18:03.129
So that you know I work for Denton County and West Park TUR

02:18:03.129 --> 02:18:05.239
S is actually one of the

02:18:05.239 --> 02:18:08.440
TURS that the county has also signed off on.

02:18:08.440 --> 02:18:14.350
And as it was indicated, December of 2012 was when it was

02:18:14.350 --> 02:18:15.600
initiated.

02:18:15.600 --> 02:18:21.000
And it is to go through December 31st of 2037.

02:18:21.000 --> 02:18:28.389
And the city contributed, but the county, according to the

02:18:28.389 --> 02:18:31.959
forms that they filled out,

02:18:31.959 --> 02:18:37.379
the participation agreement with Denton County was 40% of

02:18:37.379 --> 02:18:40.120
the real property taxes levied

02:18:40.120 --> 02:18:43.770
and collected by the county for the year captured assessed

02:18:43.770 --> 02:18:45.879
value of real property taxable by

02:18:45.879 --> 02:18:47.319
the county.

02:18:47.319 --> 02:18:51.920
So there is some of that tax also then is part of what the

02:18:51.920 --> 02:18:54.719
county has given up and everything

02:18:54.719 --> 02:18:55.799
else.

02:18:55.799 --> 02:18:58.000
So you had questions about that.

02:18:58.000 --> 02:19:03.909
My concern primarily is as a parent who has actually rented

02:19:03.909 --> 02:19:07.440
student housing for her university

02:19:07.440 --> 02:19:13.350
child living in this kind of an environment without public

02:19:13.350 --> 02:19:16.639
transportation, without easy

02:19:16.639 --> 02:19:20.430
access to where the university is or to the highway, those

02:19:20.430 --> 02:19:22.479
two streets, there is a whole

02:19:22.479 --> 02:19:25.840
lot of traffic coming in because of industrial, all the

02:19:25.840 --> 02:19:27.959
industrial and commercial use of the

02:19:27.959 --> 02:19:28.959
streets.

02:19:28.959 --> 02:19:30.200
It's already there.

02:19:30.200 --> 02:19:34.790
And it would be very difficult for the type of renter that

02:19:34.790 --> 02:19:37.239
's wanting to go into that.

02:19:37.239 --> 02:19:40.600
Also if there are ball fields in this way, are they for use

02:19:40.600 --> 02:19:42.079
for the city and they're

02:19:42.079 --> 02:19:45.049
helping to have the kids from the city out there with all

02:19:45.049 --> 02:19:46.760
the industrialization that's

02:19:46.760 --> 02:19:51.170
around working 24 hours as the gentleman from Peterbilt

02:19:51.170 --> 02:19:51.840
said.

02:19:51.840 --> 02:19:57.129
And this is all industrial and commercial area very clearly

02:19:57.129 --> 02:19:58.479
on the maps.

02:19:58.479 --> 02:20:03.879
And if the exception is made under the request for item 4A,

02:20:03.879 --> 02:20:06.920
then what's to stop the exception

02:20:06.920 --> 02:20:08.600
being made further out?

02:20:08.600 --> 02:20:10.780
There is an airport there.

02:20:10.780 --> 02:20:14.299
And housing and airports don't really work well together

02:20:14.299 --> 02:20:16.319
because people who rent houses

02:20:16.319 --> 02:20:20.200
or buy houses or invest in housing multifamily or single

02:20:20.200 --> 02:20:22.520
family property out there don't

02:20:22.520 --> 02:20:26.770
want airplanes buzzing across them, let alone trucks coming

02:20:26.770 --> 02:20:28.559
in and out 24/7.

02:20:28.559 --> 02:20:30.760
So it is something to consider.

02:20:30.760 --> 02:20:33.000
That's why it's coming before the P&Z.

02:20:33.000 --> 02:20:36.840
It's also why the staff denied the request.

02:20:36.840 --> 02:20:37.879
They don't approve it.

02:20:37.879 --> 02:20:41.909
They don't think that this is the best use as presented in

02:20:41.909 --> 02:20:42.840
this way.

02:20:42.840 --> 02:20:45.680
So that's my comments.

02:20:45.680 --> 02:20:50.319
One question for you, Commissioner Beck.

02:20:50.319 --> 02:20:51.879
Thank you for your comments.

02:20:51.879 --> 02:20:54.760
Again, this is a public hearing.

02:20:54.760 --> 02:20:56.879
Anyone who would like to speak on this item, please come

02:20:56.879 --> 02:20:57.879
forward at this time.

02:20:57.879 --> 02:21:02.920
While I'm waiting, I have one other response form that was

02:21:02.920 --> 02:21:05.840
sent in by Leon Hent with Peterbilt

02:21:05.840 --> 02:21:11.959
at 3200 Airport Road and he was opposed to the request.

02:21:11.959 --> 02:21:14.040
Commissioner Beck, if you've got a question for staff.

02:21:14.040 --> 02:21:17.040
I do, I'm not sure who to ask.

02:21:17.040 --> 02:21:20.040
Hayley, maybe we can start with you.

02:21:20.040 --> 02:21:23.760
Oh dear God.

02:21:23.760 --> 02:21:28.120
I hate brain farts and I think I've just had one.

02:21:28.120 --> 02:21:33.600
I sit here and let this slip by.

02:21:33.600 --> 02:21:34.600
Forgive me.

02:21:34.600 --> 02:21:36.840
Hopefully it will pop back up later.

02:21:36.840 --> 02:21:39.159
Stand by.

02:21:39.159 --> 02:21:40.479
This is a public hearing.

02:21:40.479 --> 02:21:43.520
Anyone who would like to speak on this item, please come

02:21:43.520 --> 02:21:44.879
forward at this time.

02:21:44.879 --> 02:21:47.469
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing and open the

02:21:47.469 --> 02:21:48.920
floor for discussion or motion

02:21:48.920 --> 02:21:55.360
or question possibly.

02:21:55.360 --> 02:21:56.360
Commissioner Beck.

02:21:56.360 --> 02:21:59.659
I'd like to make a motion before I do just make a statement

02:21:59.659 --> 02:22:00.280
first.

02:22:00.280 --> 02:22:03.629
I'm always sympathetic to people who have property that

02:22:03.629 --> 02:22:05.319
doesn't seem to move, sits

02:22:05.319 --> 02:22:07.319
there for long periods of time.

02:22:07.319 --> 02:22:10.409
The only way to be able to be developed is laid out with

02:22:10.409 --> 02:22:12.399
the zoning designations we have

02:22:12.399 --> 02:22:15.200
and per the future land use map.

02:22:15.200 --> 02:22:18.370
But I'm equally reluctant to change zoning that can allow

02:22:18.370 --> 02:22:20.079
for residential dwellings in

02:22:20.079 --> 02:22:24.110
an area in town that is surrounded by property established

02:22:24.110 --> 02:22:25.840
for industrial uses.

02:22:25.840 --> 02:22:28.969
City planning is best served, best served the public when

02:22:28.969 --> 02:22:31.040
it sets aside areas that accommodate

02:22:31.040 --> 02:22:33.440
specific uses and prevents the effects of certain

02:22:33.440 --> 02:22:35.399
businesses that can negatively impact

02:22:35.399 --> 02:22:36.399
residential domains.

02:22:36.399 --> 02:22:39.860
I feel this zone change request will have this negative

02:22:39.860 --> 02:22:40.600
impact.

02:22:40.600 --> 02:22:43.770
In my opinion, it also weakens our commitment to well-conce

02:22:43.770 --> 02:22:45.719
ived future land use designations

02:22:45.719 --> 02:22:49.079
as they're currently set and alters land uses in a random

02:22:49.079 --> 02:22:51.680
manner, which contributes, I think,

02:22:51.680 --> 02:22:54.600
uncertainty for other property owners in the area.

02:22:54.600 --> 02:22:58.280
And I do have some concern for the ESA area, too.

02:22:58.280 --> 02:23:01.260
I'm always worried about when these type of developments

02:23:01.260 --> 02:23:02.840
come in how effectively they

02:23:02.840 --> 02:23:05.440
will preserve these ESA areas.

02:23:05.440 --> 02:23:10.030
So I would encourage -- I'm going to vote for denial on

02:23:10.030 --> 02:23:13.040
this and encourage the applicant

02:23:13.040 --> 02:23:16.090
to consider the suggestions that the staff made about

02:23:16.090 --> 02:23:17.719
smaller scale uses here.

02:23:17.719 --> 02:23:20.950
I'm still just not convinced that it can't be worked out

02:23:20.950 --> 02:23:21.719
that way.

02:23:21.719 --> 02:23:24.870
But I'm going to follow suit with the developer review

02:23:24.870 --> 02:23:27.000
committee and city staff and move to

02:23:27.000 --> 02:23:29.399
deny this request.

02:23:29.399 --> 02:23:33.590
I think what you want to do is move to approve the staff's

02:23:33.590 --> 02:23:34.440
denial.

02:23:34.440 --> 02:23:36.840
>> I move to.

02:23:36.840 --> 02:23:37.840
>> Okay.

02:23:37.840 --> 02:23:40.600
So we have a motion on the floor.

02:23:40.600 --> 02:23:44.920
Do we have a second?

02:23:44.920 --> 02:23:45.920
>> What exactly is the motion?

02:23:45.920 --> 02:23:46.920
What was that?

02:23:46.920 --> 02:23:47.920
I didn't hear what it was.

02:23:47.920 --> 02:23:48.920
>> To approve denial.

02:23:48.920 --> 02:23:57.319
>> I'm going to approve denial of the request.

02:23:57.319 --> 02:23:58.319
>> Okay.

02:23:58.319 --> 02:24:00.719
We have -- >> Commissioner Sullivan.

02:24:00.719 --> 02:24:01.719
>> Second.

02:24:01.719 --> 02:24:08.840
>> I will second the approval to deny.

02:24:08.840 --> 02:24:09.840
>> Commissioner Rozelle.

02:24:09.840 --> 02:24:13.000
>> Thank you, Chair.

02:24:13.000 --> 02:24:15.959
Before we go to a vote, I just wanted to take a minute to

02:24:15.959 --> 02:24:17.440
express my thoughts.

02:24:17.440 --> 02:24:23.569
I'm not going to be supporting the approval for denial for

02:24:23.569 --> 02:24:25.840
a couple reasons.

02:24:25.840 --> 02:24:30.440
I'm convinced based on the testimonies tonight that land

02:24:30.440 --> 02:24:32.920
has a very real chance of lying

02:24:32.920 --> 02:24:37.440
dormant for a lot of years like it has in the past.

02:24:37.440 --> 02:24:40.299
And so I would like to see development and it sounds or at

02:24:40.299 --> 02:24:41.760
least I'm convinced based

02:24:41.760 --> 02:24:45.270
on the things said tonight that it's not going to be

02:24:45.270 --> 02:24:47.440
developed for industrial.

02:24:47.440 --> 02:24:51.010
And the concerns against it in terms of the fields and

02:24:51.010 --> 02:24:53.399
residents near airports and what

02:24:53.399 --> 02:24:57.700
Mr. Fikes said about his business interests, UNT already

02:24:57.700 --> 02:25:00.159
has several acres of fields right

02:25:00.159 --> 02:25:03.719
on Airport Road in the more dense area.

02:25:03.719 --> 02:25:07.149
And so I think we've seen that fields and recreational

02:25:07.149 --> 02:25:08.879
outdoor use can be used.

02:25:08.879 --> 02:25:11.860
There are great estates on Jim Crystal right under the

02:25:11.860 --> 02:25:13.719
airplane paths that people have

02:25:13.719 --> 02:25:16.280
invested in and continue to reside in.

02:25:16.280 --> 02:25:19.190
So I don't know if residents near airports don't always

02:25:19.190 --> 02:25:19.719
work.

02:25:19.719 --> 02:25:22.040
It seems to be working on Jim Crystal.

02:25:22.040 --> 02:25:26.450
And so yeah, it's just a tough one because coming into this

02:25:26.450 --> 02:25:28.680
, I looked at the future land

02:25:28.680 --> 02:25:31.920
use and I saw it was all industry and I thought this is a

02:25:31.920 --> 02:25:32.959
no-brainer.

02:25:32.959 --> 02:25:36.829
I'll agree with staff because of the TURS and the pre-plan

02:25:36.829 --> 02:25:38.959
ning we've had for industrial

02:25:38.959 --> 02:25:40.760
in that area.

02:25:40.760 --> 02:25:43.079
But this is the very far east of it.

02:25:43.079 --> 02:25:46.229
It's not dead center and I don't feel there will be zoning

02:25:46.229 --> 02:25:47.920
creep because it seems like

02:25:47.920 --> 02:25:50.510
there's a lot of interest to still develop industrial on

02:25:50.510 --> 02:25:51.159
that area.

02:25:51.159 --> 02:25:53.750
And so based on those things, I'm not going to support the

02:25:53.750 --> 02:25:55.159
motion that Commissioner Beck

02:25:55.159 --> 02:25:58.600
put in.

02:25:58.600 --> 02:25:59.600
Commissioner Smith.

02:25:59.600 --> 02:26:00.600
Oh, you're good.

02:26:00.600 --> 02:26:01.600
Don't worry about it.

02:26:01.600 --> 02:26:02.600
Okay.

02:26:02.600 --> 02:26:03.600
Commissioner Sanchez.

02:26:03.600 --> 02:26:06.239
Yeah, I would like to say that the history that you

02:26:06.239 --> 02:26:08.239
provided, I think, gives us a good

02:26:08.239 --> 02:26:13.389
indication that that property is not suitable for

02:26:13.389 --> 02:26:15.040
industrial.

02:26:15.040 --> 02:26:20.299
I myself went by there today and I kind of had second

02:26:20.299 --> 02:26:22.959
thoughts about it too.

02:26:22.959 --> 02:26:27.270
I drove the whole area and I saw those areas where there

02:26:27.270 --> 02:26:30.440
was big warehouses, nice and flat.

02:26:30.440 --> 02:26:32.799
The topography was flat.

02:26:32.799 --> 02:26:37.319
But once I hit that Crystal Road and Western Road, you

02:26:37.319 --> 02:26:40.120
could see the topography change

02:26:40.120 --> 02:26:41.200
completely.

02:26:41.200 --> 02:26:47.090
And having those two ponds, to me, indicated that there is

02:26:47.090 --> 02:26:49.959
a, what do you call it, issue

02:26:49.959 --> 02:26:53.159
when it comes to water runoff.

02:26:53.159 --> 02:26:57.959
And that's why those ponds were put in there years ago.

02:26:57.959 --> 02:27:06.059
So again, I'll probably, my vote will probably not support

02:27:06.059 --> 02:27:10.600
what the city has recommended.

02:27:10.600 --> 02:27:11.600
Commissioner Smith.

02:27:11.600 --> 02:27:12.600
Thank you, Chair.

02:27:12.600 --> 02:27:15.190
I want to echo what Commissioner Rozelle said about the

02:27:15.190 --> 02:27:16.879
land being dormant and everything

02:27:16.879 --> 02:27:17.879
else.

02:27:17.879 --> 02:27:22.680
My bigger thing is this, is that my recent research due to

02:27:22.680 --> 02:27:24.719
other forces in the city

02:27:24.719 --> 02:27:27.360
to look into student housing as a way of effects,

02:27:27.360 --> 02:27:29.840
affordable housing, the biggest problem we

02:27:29.840 --> 02:27:30.840
have is an enbyism.

02:27:30.840 --> 02:27:31.979
And we see it.

02:27:31.979 --> 02:27:34.139
We saw it with the Scripture Street project that we came in

02:27:34.139 --> 02:27:35.280
front of this commission and

02:27:35.280 --> 02:27:38.120
came in front of the city council and ultimately got voted

02:27:38.120 --> 02:27:39.239
down back in April.

02:27:39.239 --> 02:27:41.719
If we're going to put student housing in the city, it's got

02:27:41.719 --> 02:27:42.639
to go somewhere.

02:27:42.639 --> 02:27:44.829
And if we're not wanting to put it in residential

02:27:44.829 --> 02:27:47.000
neighborhoods around the university, it's

02:27:47.000 --> 02:27:48.000
got to go somewhere.

02:27:48.000 --> 02:27:50.319
And if this land is going to lay dormant or we have a

02:27:50.319 --> 02:27:52.360
chance to put it on, make it multifamily

02:27:52.360 --> 02:27:55.569
and build student housing, it's really, really hard for us

02:27:55.569 --> 02:27:56.799
to vote against it.

02:27:56.799 --> 02:27:58.120
Really hard for me to vote against it.

02:27:58.120 --> 02:28:02.440
So that's my little input there.

02:28:02.440 --> 02:28:03.799
Okay.

02:28:03.799 --> 02:28:06.559
Any other comments before I call for a vote on this

02:28:06.559 --> 02:28:07.959
particular motion?

02:28:07.959 --> 02:28:12.760
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

02:28:12.760 --> 02:28:16.540
We have a motion before us with first and a second to

02:28:16.540 --> 02:28:18.280
approve the denial.

02:28:18.280 --> 02:28:23.239
So a vote for would be to approve the denial.

02:28:23.239 --> 02:28:31.959
I am messed up again.

02:28:31.959 --> 02:28:33.239
Okay.

02:28:33.239 --> 02:28:37.559
Can I change that?

02:28:37.559 --> 02:28:38.559
Sure.

02:28:38.559 --> 02:28:39.559
Request?

02:28:39.559 --> 02:28:40.559
Okay.

02:28:40.559 --> 02:28:41.559
Request?

02:28:41.559 --> 02:28:49.520
So, we can't show it up yet.

02:28:49.520 --> 02:28:51.639
Maybe you can just state for the record.

02:28:51.639 --> 02:28:52.639
Okay.

02:28:52.639 --> 02:28:53.639
Okay.

02:28:53.639 --> 02:28:54.639
Revote?

02:28:54.639 --> 02:28:55.639
Okay.

02:28:55.639 --> 02:28:56.639
Revote.

02:28:56.639 --> 02:28:57.639
So we're going to vote to...

02:28:57.639 --> 02:29:01.840
I got mixed up there.

02:29:01.840 --> 02:29:02.840
Sorry.

02:29:02.840 --> 02:29:06.690
The motion is to deny the applicant's request, which would

02:29:06.690 --> 02:29:07.920
be no rezoning.

02:29:07.920 --> 02:29:11.879
What would be no rezoning?

02:29:11.879 --> 02:29:14.680
Okay.

02:29:14.680 --> 02:29:24.719
That motion is going to fail four to three.

02:29:24.719 --> 02:29:28.680
The Chair would entertain another motion or have some

02:29:28.680 --> 02:29:31.399
further discussion on this item.

02:29:31.399 --> 02:29:33.000
Senator Rozelle.

02:29:33.000 --> 02:29:37.209
I've already said my piece, so I'll just go ahead and

02:29:37.209 --> 02:29:40.360
motion to deny staff's recommendation

02:29:40.360 --> 02:29:43.000
and approve the rezoning of this project.

02:29:43.000 --> 02:29:46.559
You can say motion to approve applicant's submission.

02:29:46.559 --> 02:29:48.680
I motion to approve applicant's submission.

02:29:48.680 --> 02:29:49.680
Okay.

02:29:49.680 --> 02:29:51.520
Let's make it easy.

02:29:51.520 --> 02:29:54.409
The Chair will ask for clarification if you have any of the

02:29:54.409 --> 02:29:55.239
conditions.

02:29:55.239 --> 02:29:57.829
I think there were three conditions that were requested if

02:29:57.829 --> 02:29:58.959
those are going to be a part

02:29:58.959 --> 02:30:00.719
of your motion or be excluded.

02:30:00.719 --> 02:30:03.959
Just as a comment, you don't have to use those conditions.

02:30:03.959 --> 02:30:07.920
You can use whatever conditions that you would like.

02:30:07.920 --> 02:30:13.879
Are they for the SUP only?

02:30:13.879 --> 02:30:16.000
Are they for the SUP or the rezoning?

02:30:16.000 --> 02:30:17.000
Okay.

02:30:17.000 --> 02:30:18.000
Chair's apology.

02:30:18.000 --> 02:30:20.479
I'm ahead of myself in the next item.

02:30:20.479 --> 02:30:24.559
I second.

02:30:24.559 --> 02:30:29.479
We have a first and second to approve the rezoning.

02:30:29.479 --> 02:30:35.639
Any other discussion or comments?

02:30:35.639 --> 02:30:45.639
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

02:30:45.639 --> 02:30:53.200
The motion to approve the zoning change passes 4 to 3.

02:30:53.200 --> 02:30:54.200
Commissioner Beck.

02:30:54.200 --> 02:30:55.200
Thank you, Chair.

02:30:55.200 --> 02:30:58.100
I believe we stated earlier that the opposition met the

02:30:58.100 --> 02:31:01.120
criteria that it would require a supermajority

02:31:01.120 --> 02:31:02.120
in city council.

02:31:02.120 --> 02:31:03.120
Is that correct?

02:31:03.120 --> 02:31:04.120
I believe that's correct.

02:31:04.120 --> 02:31:05.120
That's correct.

02:31:05.120 --> 02:31:06.120
Okay.

02:31:06.120 --> 02:31:07.120
Thanks.

02:31:07.120 --> 02:31:08.120
Okay.

02:31:08.120 --> 02:31:09.120
Okay.

02:31:09.120 --> 02:31:12.120
To continue, do we need to take a break?

02:31:12.120 --> 02:31:13.120
Good.

02:31:13.120 --> 02:31:14.120
Okay.

02:31:14.120 --> 02:31:18.280
I will move us on to our next item.

02:31:18.280 --> 02:31:24.190
I'm going to open the public hearing for B, which is S17-

02:31:24.190 --> 02:31:25.920
0009.

02:31:25.920 --> 02:31:30.200
This will be to have a presentation by Haley.

02:31:30.200 --> 02:31:33.000
Are we going to, I think, just for clarification.

02:31:33.000 --> 02:31:38.350
We can just incorporate your presentation from item 17-0016

02:31:38.350 --> 02:31:39.680
into this item.

02:31:39.680 --> 02:31:42.280
Just clarify that this is just for the SUP?

02:31:42.280 --> 02:31:47.959
Just for the SUP portion.

02:31:47.959 --> 02:31:50.729
If the recommendation of denial is rejected, we have the

02:31:50.729 --> 02:31:52.280
three conditions associated with

02:31:52.280 --> 02:31:53.280
this issue.

02:31:53.280 --> 02:31:54.280
Correct.

02:31:54.280 --> 02:31:55.280
To consider.

02:31:55.280 --> 02:31:56.280
To consider.

02:31:56.280 --> 02:31:57.280
If we'd like.

02:31:57.280 --> 02:31:58.280
Okay.

02:31:58.280 --> 02:32:00.200
Just for clarification, this is the same item.

02:32:00.200 --> 02:32:03.719
It's just going to be to consider the SUP component to

02:32:03.719 --> 02:32:05.280
allow multifamily.

02:32:05.280 --> 02:32:13.520
Do we need to call for any, this is a public hearing.

02:32:13.520 --> 02:32:16.680
So if anyone would like to speak on this item, whether it

02:32:16.680 --> 02:32:18.479
be the applicant or a member of

02:32:18.479 --> 02:32:21.760
the public, please come forward at this time.

02:32:21.760 --> 02:32:25.280
Please state your name and address for us again.

02:32:25.280 --> 02:32:28.129
Mr. Chairman, Lance Van Zandt, representing the applicant

02:32:28.129 --> 02:32:29.319
landmark properties.

02:32:29.319 --> 02:32:31.309
Just don't want to take up any additional time that we don

02:32:31.309 --> 02:32:32.319
't need to, but we're here

02:32:32.319 --> 02:32:33.319
available for questions.

02:32:33.319 --> 02:32:35.649
And of course, we want to hear the speaker in support of

02:32:35.649 --> 02:32:36.200
the SUP.

02:32:36.200 --> 02:32:37.200
Okay.

02:32:37.200 --> 02:32:38.200
Thank you.

02:32:38.200 --> 02:32:39.200
Thank you.

02:32:39.200 --> 02:32:40.200
Commissioner Smith.

02:32:40.200 --> 02:32:43.120
Mr. Van Zandt.

02:32:43.120 --> 02:32:47.319
Have you guys read over the recommendations that have been

02:32:47.319 --> 02:32:49.239
made by the city if we have

02:32:49.239 --> 02:32:50.639
approved the rezoning?

02:32:50.639 --> 02:32:52.399
Have you guys read those?

02:32:52.399 --> 02:32:55.520
Did you guys read the three conditions that were presented?

02:32:55.520 --> 02:32:56.520
Yes.

02:32:56.520 --> 02:32:57.520
Yes.

02:32:57.520 --> 02:32:58.520
Any comments?

02:32:58.520 --> 02:32:59.520
Anything you'd like to add?

02:32:59.520 --> 02:33:00.520
Anything that.

02:33:00.520 --> 02:33:03.520
I don't believe that that elicited any comments or concerns

02:33:03.520 --> 02:33:04.079
from us.

02:33:04.079 --> 02:33:05.079
Okay.

02:33:05.079 --> 02:33:06.079
Great.

02:33:06.079 --> 02:33:07.079
Thank you.

02:33:07.079 --> 02:33:08.079
Commissioner Beck.

02:33:08.079 --> 02:33:12.600
Just a quick question for clarification.

02:33:12.600 --> 02:33:15.520
So if we voted yes on this, we're voting for the SUP.

02:33:15.520 --> 02:33:17.520
Is that my understanding?

02:33:17.520 --> 02:33:18.520
Yeah.

02:33:18.520 --> 02:33:20.079
You can just vote.

02:33:20.079 --> 02:33:22.399
If you're voting in the affirmative, you can vote to

02:33:22.399 --> 02:33:24.200
approve the applicant submission.

02:33:24.200 --> 02:33:25.200
Right.

02:33:25.200 --> 02:33:26.200
Okay.

02:33:26.200 --> 02:33:27.200
Thanks.

02:33:27.200 --> 02:33:30.200
Commissioner Smith.

02:33:30.200 --> 02:33:36.729
I motion to accept the, to accept the, what am I trying to

02:33:36.729 --> 02:33:38.600
say, legal?

02:33:38.600 --> 02:33:39.600
Approve.

02:33:39.600 --> 02:33:44.290
Accept to approve the SCP taking into account the

02:33:44.290 --> 02:33:48.120
recommendations made by city staff for

02:33:48.120 --> 02:33:49.120
additional recommendations.

02:33:49.120 --> 02:33:50.120
Okay.

02:33:50.120 --> 02:33:53.200
The three conditions that are in our backup?

02:33:53.200 --> 02:33:54.200
You got it.

02:33:54.200 --> 02:33:57.200
I think we're going to break after this.

02:33:57.200 --> 02:33:58.239
Yes, we will.

02:33:58.239 --> 02:34:01.479
Since we have a motion, let me, I haven't yet.

02:34:01.479 --> 02:34:05.079
That's why I was going to say we're getting a little ahead

02:34:05.079 --> 02:34:06.239
of ourselves.

02:34:06.239 --> 02:34:09.850
Since this is still a public hearing and public hearing is

02:34:09.850 --> 02:34:10.819
still open.

02:34:10.819 --> 02:34:13.829
So we have tabled the motion for right now until we make

02:34:13.829 --> 02:34:15.600
sure everyone that would like

02:34:15.600 --> 02:34:17.479
to speak on this item has an opportunity.

02:34:17.479 --> 02:34:20.440
Then I will close the public hearing and then we can get a

02:34:20.440 --> 02:34:21.760
motion on the floor.

02:34:21.760 --> 02:34:24.069
Since a public hearing, anyone who would like to speak on

02:34:24.069 --> 02:34:25.360
this item, please come forward

02:34:25.360 --> 02:34:28.360
at this time.

02:34:28.360 --> 02:34:35.739
I have no other cards up here wishing to speak on this item

02:34:35.739 --> 02:34:36.280
.

02:34:36.280 --> 02:34:38.870
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing and I will

02:34:38.870 --> 02:34:40.360
call on Commissioner Smith for

02:34:40.360 --> 02:34:41.360
a motion.

02:34:41.360 --> 02:34:48.969
I motion to accept the SUP as written plus the city staff

02:34:48.969 --> 02:34:51.840
recommendations.

02:34:51.840 --> 02:34:52.840
Commissioner Sanchez.

02:34:52.840 --> 02:34:53.840
I second the motion.

02:34:53.840 --> 02:34:54.840
Okay.

02:34:54.840 --> 02:34:57.450
We have a first and a second with the three conditions that

02:34:57.450 --> 02:34:58.760
are mentioned in our staff

02:34:58.760 --> 02:35:00.920
backup on this item.

02:35:00.920 --> 02:35:03.600
Any further discussion or questions?

02:35:03.600 --> 02:35:09.680
I'm going to request to speak on this item.

02:35:09.680 --> 02:35:14.350
I'm going to speak in favor of the SUP and recommending the

02:35:14.350 --> 02:35:15.840
multifamily.

02:35:15.840 --> 02:35:19.389
And the reason being is that there's currently multifamily

02:35:19.389 --> 02:35:21.399
just on the other side of 35 on

02:35:21.399 --> 02:35:22.399
Oak Street.

02:35:22.399 --> 02:35:24.959
There are a number of apartment communities there.

02:35:24.959 --> 02:35:27.850
And I understand Peterbilt's concern about it, but it's

02:35:27.850 --> 02:35:29.559
essentially the same roadway.

02:35:29.559 --> 02:35:31.870
And I think the bus service currently comes to those

02:35:31.870 --> 02:35:33.479
apartment communities that are right

02:35:33.479 --> 02:35:34.479
there.

02:35:34.479 --> 02:35:37.069
And I think it will be a very easy transition for them to

02:35:37.069 --> 02:35:38.579
come a little bit farther west

02:35:38.579 --> 02:35:40.559
and serve y'all's community as well.

02:35:40.559 --> 02:35:44.750
And so with that, I'm going to be in favor of supporting

02:35:44.750 --> 02:35:45.520
the SUP.

02:35:45.520 --> 02:36:01.719
And I will call for a vote on the board.

02:36:01.719 --> 02:36:06.159
That motion is going to pass or carry four to three.

02:36:06.159 --> 02:36:08.600
It's approved.

02:36:08.600 --> 02:36:14.879
I will move us to our item C.

02:36:14.879 --> 02:36:18.440
Good luck with your project, gentlemen.

02:36:18.440 --> 02:36:26.879
Give a couple minutes.

02:36:26.879 --> 02:36:27.879
It's 8.05.

02:36:27.879 --> 02:36:29.239
I'm going to call a recess.

02:36:29.239 --> 02:36:31.120
And let's try to take about a 10-minute break.

02:36:31.120 --> 02:36:42.739
And we'll come back.

02:36:42.739 --> 02:36:48.200
And I will call us back into order at 8.24.

02:36:48.200 --> 02:36:51.040
We are in our public hearing section.

02:36:51.040 --> 02:36:55.760
And we are now on item C. This item is still open.

02:36:55.760 --> 02:36:59.680
It was continued at our last meeting and left open.

02:36:59.680 --> 02:37:02.780
So I'm not going to have to reopen this item.

02:37:02.780 --> 02:37:05.159
And so at this time, I'm going to call on Julie Wyatt for

02:37:05.159 --> 02:37:06.040
presentation.

02:37:06.040 --> 02:37:07.040
Good evening.

02:37:07.040 --> 02:37:11.520
I'm Julie Wyatt, senior planner with the City of Denton.

02:37:11.520 --> 02:37:16.850
And I'm presenting Z1722 this evening, east side at Oakmont

02:37:16.850 --> 02:37:17.200
.

02:37:17.200 --> 02:37:20.680
The request before you is to consider an initial zoning for

02:37:20.680 --> 02:37:22.639
the subject property of Neighborhood

02:37:22.639 --> 02:37:26.159
Residential Mixed Use District.

02:37:26.159 --> 02:37:28.319
It's approximately six acres.

02:37:28.319 --> 02:37:30.920
And it's located on the east side of the future alignment

02:37:30.920 --> 02:37:34.600
of 2499, about 1400 feet south of

02:37:34.600 --> 02:37:37.559
Robinson Road.

02:37:37.559 --> 02:37:41.450
The current zoning is RD5X, and I know you all are familiar

02:37:41.450 --> 02:37:42.520
with RD5X.

02:37:42.520 --> 02:37:46.290
That's our place holding zoning designation for when a

02:37:46.290 --> 02:37:48.920
property is annexed into the city.

02:37:48.920 --> 02:37:55.719
They are proposing on the bottom photo of NRMU.

02:37:55.719 --> 02:37:59.069
So when we look at the Denton Plan 2030, this area is

02:37:59.069 --> 02:38:01.479
designated as low density residential.

02:38:01.479 --> 02:38:04.940
The intent of this is to encourage single family

02:38:04.940 --> 02:38:07.879
development, one to four dwelling units

02:38:07.879 --> 02:38:12.829
per acre, think suburban type development with individual

02:38:12.829 --> 02:38:14.440
neighborhoods.

02:38:14.440 --> 02:38:17.870
So when we analyzed the request against the Denton Plan,

02:38:17.870 --> 02:38:20.120
the future land use, we determined

02:38:20.120 --> 02:38:23.149
that the use does not technically conform to low density

02:38:23.149 --> 02:38:24.920
residential in the future land

02:38:24.920 --> 02:38:25.920
use.

02:38:25.920 --> 02:38:28.600
So when that happens, we have to take a little extra

02:38:28.600 --> 02:38:29.959
scrutiny of the site.

02:38:29.959 --> 02:38:33.760
And additional criteria for approval are required in the

02:38:33.760 --> 02:38:35.719
Denton Development Code.

02:38:35.719 --> 02:38:38.719
Those include looking at the existing land use pattern,

02:38:38.719 --> 02:38:40.440
creation of an isolated zoning

02:38:40.440 --> 02:38:43.889
district, if there's adequate infrastructure that can be

02:38:43.889 --> 02:38:46.040
provided, environmental impacts

02:38:46.040 --> 02:38:47.799
in the character of the district.

02:38:47.799 --> 02:38:51.860
So we'll kind of go over those as we go forward in the

02:38:51.860 --> 02:38:53.440
presentation.

02:38:53.440 --> 02:38:57.260
So I'm looking at access of the site, it is located

02:38:57.260 --> 02:39:00.360
adjacent to the future extension of

02:39:00.360 --> 02:39:01.360
FM 2499.

02:39:01.360 --> 02:39:04.389
And I believe that's going to be opening in the next few

02:39:04.389 --> 02:39:05.120
months.

02:39:05.120 --> 02:39:12.239
This road is intended to connect Denton to DFW Airport.

02:39:12.239 --> 02:39:15.459
And it will actually extend north of the site, will cross I

02:39:15.459 --> 02:39:17.840
-35 and then head to points north.

02:39:17.840 --> 02:39:21.069
So this is going to be a significant corridor within the

02:39:21.069 --> 02:39:22.959
city of Denton and for the entire

02:39:22.959 --> 02:39:23.959
region.

02:39:23.959 --> 02:39:27.520
The subject property is located adjacent to this.

02:39:27.520 --> 02:39:33.079
And it has 975 linear feet of frontage on this corridor.

02:39:33.079 --> 02:39:35.670
So when we look at the request and we look at what the

02:39:35.670 --> 02:39:37.559
existing zoning is, what the future

02:39:37.559 --> 02:39:41.799
land use is, staff didn't feel that the property would

02:39:41.799 --> 02:39:44.600
develop with a low density residential

02:39:44.600 --> 02:39:45.600
use.

02:39:45.600 --> 02:39:48.940
So really this isn't the type of site for that use.

02:39:48.940 --> 02:39:51.670
And that commercial development given the access and the

02:39:51.670 --> 02:39:53.479
visibility is probably appropriate

02:39:53.479 --> 02:39:55.600
at this site.

02:39:55.600 --> 02:39:59.790
And then here we'll look at a little more deeply at FM 2499

02:39:59.790 --> 02:40:00.079
.

02:40:00.079 --> 02:40:03.510
So here are the tech stop plans, the subject property is

02:40:03.510 --> 02:40:05.879
here in green, it's that triangle.

02:40:05.879 --> 02:40:09.450
There are noise walls that are planned for this road that

02:40:09.450 --> 02:40:11.440
will impact the southern edge

02:40:11.440 --> 02:40:13.719
of the subject property.

02:40:13.719 --> 02:40:16.479
As I said, this is currently under construction.

02:40:16.479 --> 02:40:19.719
It is intended to be a six lane divided roadway.

02:40:19.719 --> 02:40:22.870
I know there was a question in the work session regarding

02:40:22.870 --> 02:40:24.840
full access to the site, whether

02:40:24.840 --> 02:40:28.159
they could have a left turn lane in and out of the site.

02:40:28.159 --> 02:40:30.649
I spoke with engineering and they said that is something

02:40:30.649 --> 02:40:32.200
because this is a text dot road,

02:40:32.200 --> 02:40:35.549
that's something that the applicant would have to approach

02:40:35.549 --> 02:40:36.879
text dot with and see if

02:40:36.879 --> 02:40:38.520
that would be something that they would permit.

02:40:38.520 --> 02:40:40.370
And then it would be at the expense of the applicant as to

02:40:40.370 --> 02:40:41.319
whether or not they wanted

02:40:41.319 --> 02:40:44.719
to punch through that median.

02:40:44.719 --> 02:40:47.459
We also looked at the compatibility of the request with the

02:40:47.459 --> 02:40:48.520
surrounding area.

02:40:48.520 --> 02:40:51.090
So we'll just take a minute to look at what this

02:40:51.090 --> 02:40:53.239
surrounding zoning and uses are.

02:40:53.239 --> 02:40:56.729
So northwest of the subject property is a planned

02:40:56.729 --> 02:40:57.959
development.

02:40:57.959 --> 02:41:00.280
It includes single family uses.

02:41:00.280 --> 02:41:04.760
There is a public utility that cuts across this PD and

02:41:04.760 --> 02:41:08.520
actually is adjacent to that 2499

02:41:08.520 --> 02:41:12.239
and actually cuts across that 2499 corridor.

02:41:12.239 --> 02:41:14.829
There's some undeveloped commercial just south of the

02:41:14.829 --> 02:41:17.040
subject property in that planned development.

02:41:17.040 --> 02:41:20.399
Their concept plan set aside that land to be commercial

02:41:20.399 --> 02:41:22.319
developed, to be developed in

02:41:22.319 --> 02:41:24.479
a commercial way.

02:41:24.479 --> 02:41:28.690
To the south there's a planned development that has a

02:41:28.690 --> 02:41:31.440
single family uses and open space.

02:41:31.440 --> 02:41:34.610
To the east is NR4 and that has single family development

02:41:34.610 --> 02:41:36.280
and there is an open space lot

02:41:36.280 --> 02:41:40.200
that is a slender lot that separates the subject property

02:41:40.200 --> 02:41:42.680
from the adjacent residential.

02:41:42.680 --> 02:41:48.420
And then there is a gas well facility to the north east of

02:41:48.420 --> 02:41:51.639
the site and that is RD5X.

02:41:51.639 --> 02:41:55.549
So when we looked at the request, and I should back up a

02:41:55.549 --> 02:41:58.200
minute, when the applicant first

02:41:58.200 --> 02:42:02.889
submitted the request, they came in requesting CMG, that is

02:42:02.889 --> 02:42:05.399
our community mixed use general

02:42:05.399 --> 02:42:07.200
zoning district.

02:42:07.200 --> 02:42:11.170
That is one of our slightly more intense zoning districts

02:42:11.170 --> 02:42:13.559
in terms of commercial uses in the

02:42:13.559 --> 02:42:16.360
city of Denton.

02:42:16.360 --> 02:42:20.659
Whereas NRMU is intended to be close to neighborhoods and

02:42:20.659 --> 02:42:23.840
to provide some smaller scale commercial

02:42:23.840 --> 02:42:27.159
development and mix of uses, CMG is the next step up.

02:42:27.159 --> 02:42:28.920
It's more of the community mixed use.

02:42:28.920 --> 02:42:32.260
It's below regional, but it's a step up.

02:42:32.260 --> 02:42:34.739
We half looked at their request and we felt like it was too

02:42:34.739 --> 02:42:36.079
intensive because it was so

02:42:36.079 --> 02:42:38.239
close to residential.

02:42:38.239 --> 02:42:41.100
It's kind of a compact area and we felt like it would be

02:42:41.100 --> 02:42:42.700
just too close together.

02:42:42.700 --> 02:42:46.540
It's got some intense commercial uses like vehicle repair,

02:42:46.540 --> 02:42:48.280
things that could present

02:42:48.280 --> 02:42:49.840
nuisances for those residential.

02:42:49.840 --> 02:42:53.200
So we talked to the applicant and they said they agreed to

02:42:53.200 --> 02:42:55.040
the NRMU because we felt like

02:42:55.040 --> 02:42:58.840
that allowed the commercial development that is typically

02:42:58.840 --> 02:43:01.200
appropriate on arterial streets,

02:43:01.200 --> 02:43:05.840
but something that's a smaller scale, scales back the uses

02:43:05.840 --> 02:43:08.079
a little bit to provide that

02:43:08.079 --> 02:43:13.079
more compatible development pattern.

02:43:13.079 --> 02:43:18.840
There's also FEMA flood zone on the subject property.

02:43:18.840 --> 02:43:21.819
That's something that they will have to deal with and look

02:43:21.819 --> 02:43:23.319
at as they move forward with

02:43:23.319 --> 02:43:24.319
development.

02:43:24.319 --> 02:43:27.100
I just want to caution you that this is just schematic on

02:43:27.100 --> 02:43:27.799
this map.

02:43:27.799 --> 02:43:30.940
It's not necessarily studied and this isn't based upon a

02:43:30.940 --> 02:43:32.959
study, but just to let you know

02:43:32.959 --> 02:43:37.040
that that's a factor once they do develop.

02:43:37.040 --> 02:43:41.879
Public notification was sent out on the proposal.

02:43:41.879 --> 02:43:48.479
I also want to bring up the initial proposal of CMG because

02:43:48.479 --> 02:43:50.520
we initially sent out a notification

02:43:50.520 --> 02:43:51.879
with the CMG.

02:43:51.879 --> 02:43:54.590
I provided those responses that we got from those neighbors

02:43:54.590 --> 02:43:55.719
in your back out because I

02:43:55.719 --> 02:43:58.389
wanted you to have all of the information that we heard

02:43:58.389 --> 02:43:59.799
from the community in terms

02:43:59.799 --> 02:44:03.840
of the intensity of the use.

02:44:03.840 --> 02:44:07.709
But this reflects, this map only reflects the responses

02:44:07.709 --> 02:44:10.079
that we received for the NRMU,

02:44:10.079 --> 02:44:12.559
the current request of the NRMU.

02:44:12.559 --> 02:44:16.879
So we received five notices in opposition and that is five

02:44:16.879 --> 02:44:18.799
percent of the adjoining

02:44:18.799 --> 02:44:21.260
land area.

02:44:21.260 --> 02:44:23.850
So based upon all of these factors, staff recommends

02:44:23.850 --> 02:44:25.319
approval of their requests.

02:44:25.319 --> 02:44:28.319
And although the request is technically inconsistent with

02:44:28.319 --> 02:44:30.280
the future land use designation, we feel

02:44:30.280 --> 02:44:33.190
it is consistent with the overall goals of the Denton Plan

02:44:33.190 --> 02:44:35.120
2030 and that the proposal

02:44:35.120 --> 02:44:37.430
does conform to their criteria for approval in the Denton

02:44:37.430 --> 02:44:38.840
Development Code and I'll stand

02:44:38.840 --> 02:44:40.600
for any questions.

02:44:40.600 --> 02:44:41.600
Commissioner Smith.

02:44:41.600 --> 02:44:42.600
Thank you, Chair.

02:44:42.600 --> 02:44:46.569
Julie, whenever it comes to the trees that are being put on

02:44:46.569 --> 02:44:48.840
the buffer that I was discussing

02:44:48.840 --> 02:44:52.030
during work session, the bottom, that bottom, you know what

02:44:52.030 --> 02:44:54.000
I'm talking about, the landscape

02:44:54.000 --> 02:44:56.750
buffer down there, what are the guidelines in regards to

02:44:56.750 --> 02:44:58.159
those trees being put in?

02:44:58.159 --> 02:45:00.629
I mean, is it something where the developer has to put in

02:45:00.629 --> 02:45:02.440
something that's actually large

02:45:02.440 --> 02:45:04.790
and of scale so it actually is blocking something or is it

02:45:04.790 --> 02:45:06.360
oh, just, you know, plant an oak,

02:45:06.360 --> 02:45:08.510
it doesn't matter if it's a little sapling and it won't be

02:45:08.510 --> 02:45:09.600
big enough to really block

02:45:09.600 --> 02:45:12.879
any noise or light for, you know, five or ten years?

02:45:12.879 --> 02:45:13.879
Sure.

02:45:13.879 --> 02:45:17.340
Our code does require two-inch caliper trees to be planted

02:45:17.340 --> 02:45:19.079
and to be irrigated and they

02:45:19.079 --> 02:45:21.159
have to stay alive.

02:45:21.159 --> 02:45:23.639
So there are, so they are smaller trees.

02:45:23.639 --> 02:45:26.260
That helps them, you know, gives them a better chance at

02:45:26.260 --> 02:45:27.319
actually growing.

02:45:27.319 --> 02:45:30.799
So it's a two-inch caliper tree and then there are also shr

02:45:30.799 --> 02:45:32.559
ubs that are associated with that

02:45:32.559 --> 02:45:36.200
buffer and the trees also have to be a mixture of evergreen

02:45:36.200 --> 02:45:37.440
and deciduous.

02:45:37.440 --> 02:45:41.040
So we want to make sure that there's leafy coverage there.

02:45:41.040 --> 02:45:42.040
Okay.

02:45:42.040 --> 02:45:43.399
But it won't go away in the winter?

02:45:43.399 --> 02:45:46.280
Most of it won't go away in the winter.

02:45:46.280 --> 02:45:47.280
Commissioner Ellis.

02:45:47.280 --> 02:45:48.280
Thank you, Chair.

02:45:48.280 --> 02:45:51.510
Hey, Julie, we talked in work session that pine hills will

02:45:51.510 --> 02:45:53.559
be going through out to 2499.

02:45:53.559 --> 02:45:55.670
Do we know if there's a road in the Wheeler Ridge subdiv

02:45:55.670 --> 02:45:57.600
ision that also will be coming?

02:45:57.600 --> 02:45:58.600
I don't.

02:45:58.600 --> 02:46:02.170
But we can provide, we can pull those text-out plans and

02:46:02.170 --> 02:46:03.399
get them to you.

02:46:03.399 --> 02:46:05.520
But I don't know specifically if there are any.

02:46:05.520 --> 02:46:07.520
Yeah, I'd be curious if one of those roads as well.

02:46:07.520 --> 02:46:08.520
Okay.

02:46:08.520 --> 02:46:09.520
Thanks.

02:46:09.520 --> 02:46:13.600
I see no other questions for staff.

02:46:13.600 --> 02:46:15.639
Thank you, Julie.

02:46:15.639 --> 02:46:17.360
This is a public hearing.

02:46:17.360 --> 02:46:19.280
I do have some cards on this item.

02:46:19.280 --> 02:46:21.639
I have three so far.

02:46:21.639 --> 02:46:27.100
I will call on Kay O'Keefe first to be followed by Renee Is

02:46:27.100 --> 02:46:28.719
erman and then Chris Smolke are

02:46:28.719 --> 02:46:32.280
the cards that I've got.

02:46:32.280 --> 02:46:33.280
The applicant is here.

02:46:33.280 --> 02:46:39.200
I'd call on the applicant first.

02:46:39.200 --> 02:46:41.399
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

02:46:41.399 --> 02:46:43.920
Thank you, commissioners, for your service.

02:46:43.920 --> 02:46:48.600
I am one of the partners in the applicant group.

02:46:48.600 --> 02:46:50.840
I wanted to just address a few things.

02:46:50.840 --> 02:46:55.840
Give me your Greg Johnson 319 West Oak for the record.

02:46:55.840 --> 02:46:56.840
Here in Denton, Texas.

02:46:56.840 --> 02:46:57.840
Thank you.

02:46:57.840 --> 02:46:58.840
All right.

02:46:58.840 --> 02:46:59.840
Thank you.

02:46:59.840 --> 02:47:01.760
Just a couple of things I think that merit clarification.

02:47:01.760 --> 02:47:03.600
Obviously you guys are very familiar with RD5X.

02:47:03.600 --> 02:47:08.639
So this property has to get zoned to be used.

02:47:08.639 --> 02:47:12.719
The 2030 plan didn't contemplate 2499 coming through.

02:47:12.719 --> 02:47:16.489
And so had it, I think it probably would have addressed

02:47:16.489 --> 02:47:18.840
what should have been contemplated

02:47:18.840 --> 02:47:21.000
in terms of commercial uses along 2499.

02:47:21.000 --> 02:47:22.440
So just point of clarification.

02:47:22.440 --> 02:47:25.579
Obviously staff has to point to the 2030 plan as it's

02:47:25.579 --> 02:47:26.280
written.

02:47:26.280 --> 02:47:28.729
But had it contemplated 2499, I'm guessing that the

02:47:28.729 --> 02:47:30.360
commercial uses would have been shown

02:47:30.360 --> 02:47:31.360
up and down there.

02:47:31.360 --> 02:47:36.049
Second point of clarification is we did apply originally

02:47:36.049 --> 02:47:36.979
for CMG.

02:47:36.979 --> 02:47:41.079
That was upon recommendation of staff.

02:47:41.079 --> 02:47:43.159
That staff member is no longer here.

02:47:43.159 --> 02:47:46.350
So we got when Julie took over the project and started

02:47:46.350 --> 02:47:48.280
working with us, we did have a

02:47:48.280 --> 02:47:49.280
neighborhood meeting.

02:47:49.280 --> 02:47:52.020
We had about 15 or 20 folks show up.

02:47:52.020 --> 02:47:55.850
We heard what their concerns were in terms of use types in

02:47:55.850 --> 02:47:56.639
the CMG.

02:47:56.639 --> 02:47:58.520
Julie contacted us afterwards and said, you know, some of

02:47:58.520 --> 02:47:59.579
these use types that they're

02:47:59.579 --> 02:48:02.399
concerned about, I really agree with.

02:48:02.399 --> 02:48:04.989
Our position was those use types would never go there

02:48:04.989 --> 02:48:05.479
anyway.

02:48:05.479 --> 02:48:06.780
And so we're fine.

02:48:06.780 --> 02:48:09.500
We just have to be able to zone it for the kind of uses

02:48:09.500 --> 02:48:10.840
that would go there.

02:48:10.840 --> 02:48:13.399
Julie did put the map up showing the floodplain.

02:48:13.399 --> 02:48:15.360
A couple things about the site.

02:48:15.360 --> 02:48:18.020
Julie, I don't want to mess with your stuff, but is there

02:48:18.020 --> 02:48:19.360
one of the site that kind of

02:48:19.360 --> 02:48:27.239
shows the trees or just an aerial shot of it?

02:48:27.239 --> 02:48:32.319
You can go to the one that had the flood on it.

02:48:32.319 --> 02:48:33.319
Okay.

02:48:33.319 --> 02:48:34.319
We'll use that.

02:48:34.319 --> 02:48:38.659
So to orient you on the site, there's a really big -- this

02:48:38.659 --> 02:48:40.879
line is kind of covering it.

02:48:40.879 --> 02:48:44.489
But up against this residential on the south side, there's

02:48:44.489 --> 02:48:46.479
a big stand of trees, probably

02:48:46.479 --> 02:48:49.989
I would say 6 to 10 feet from their fence line, a lot of

02:48:49.989 --> 02:48:51.079
big oak trees.

02:48:51.079 --> 02:48:53.819
You can't build in that anyway in terms of -- because of

02:48:53.819 --> 02:48:54.680
the setback.

02:48:54.680 --> 02:48:59.239
So logically -- are you coming to save me, Jim?

02:48:59.239 --> 02:49:00.239
That's perfect.

02:49:00.239 --> 02:49:01.239
Thank you.

02:49:01.239 --> 02:49:07.719
That doesn't count against my time.

02:49:07.719 --> 02:49:10.819
You can really kind of see here the dark area along the

02:49:10.819 --> 02:49:11.760
south side.

02:49:11.760 --> 02:49:14.399
You can get a good feel for -- those are big trees.

02:49:14.399 --> 02:49:18.590
In fact, the lady called us literally like three days after

02:49:18.590 --> 02:49:20.239
we bought it, and one of

02:49:20.239 --> 02:49:21.719
these fences was on her fence.

02:49:21.719 --> 02:49:24.700
I mean, one of these trees was on her fence, so I owned it

02:49:24.700 --> 02:49:26.200
for three days and got to go

02:49:26.200 --> 02:49:27.879
fix it.

02:49:27.879 --> 02:49:29.799
There's big, big trees along that southern border.

02:49:29.799 --> 02:49:33.989
The reason I'm bringing that up is on this site, if you can

02:49:33.989 --> 02:49:36.079
come back to the main screen

02:49:36.079 --> 02:49:40.479
instead of that one, Billy.

02:49:40.479 --> 02:49:43.829
On this site, the floodplain actually -- this is pretty

02:49:43.829 --> 02:49:46.239
close, but the floodplain is actually

02:49:46.239 --> 02:49:47.719
more like up here.

02:49:47.719 --> 02:49:50.709
So while this is six acres, really the only place you could

02:49:50.709 --> 02:49:52.280
logically build anything is

02:49:52.280 --> 02:49:55.750
right here, because the topography falls off dramatically

02:49:55.750 --> 02:49:57.639
at about this point right here.

02:49:57.639 --> 02:50:01.069
It falls off about 20 feet into a drainage system that Tech

02:50:01.069 --> 02:50:02.559
Stat put in right here when

02:50:02.559 --> 02:50:04.040
they built the road.

02:50:04.040 --> 02:50:06.629
So there's a TechStat culvert, and this almost looks like a

02:50:06.629 --> 02:50:08.159
bridge when you're crossing it.

02:50:08.159 --> 02:50:10.440
There's a wall right here.

02:50:10.440 --> 02:50:13.690
And this is about a 20, 25-foot drop-off down the center of

02:50:13.690 --> 02:50:15.239
this property, and it drains

02:50:15.239 --> 02:50:18.159
back here into this drainage system.

02:50:18.159 --> 02:50:22.389
So really the one part of this site you can really use is

02:50:22.389 --> 02:50:23.579
right here.

02:50:23.579 --> 02:50:24.760
So what goes there?

02:50:24.760 --> 02:50:25.760
It's mid-block.

02:50:25.760 --> 02:50:27.079
There's no traffic signal.

02:50:27.079 --> 02:50:28.920
It's not retail.

02:50:28.920 --> 02:50:32.149
So NRMU was fine with us, because what would go there if

02:50:32.149 --> 02:50:34.239
you look at this today, it's going

02:50:34.239 --> 02:50:37.079
to look like Teasley is what 2499 looked like.

02:50:37.079 --> 02:50:43.170
And so if we could go look at this exhibit -- if you can

02:50:43.170 --> 02:50:49.280
zoom out a little bit, Billy.

02:50:49.280 --> 02:50:51.280
That's my wedding ring right there.

02:50:51.280 --> 02:50:52.280
You see it, honey?

02:50:52.280 --> 02:50:55.639
I'm sure she's watching.

02:50:55.639 --> 02:50:58.920
If you look at this -- here is Teasley.

02:50:58.920 --> 02:51:03.680
So CMG, CMG, CMG, CMG, NRMU, NRMU, NRMU, right?

02:51:03.680 --> 02:51:05.159
You guys have been up and down Teasley.

02:51:05.159 --> 02:51:06.159
You know what it looks like.

02:51:06.159 --> 02:51:08.750
You've got offices, and the public library is a large

02:51:08.750 --> 02:51:10.479
building with houses sitting right

02:51:10.479 --> 02:51:11.479
behind it.

02:51:11.479 --> 02:51:14.440
2499 is going to be built just like Teasley.

02:51:14.440 --> 02:51:17.200
Six lanes divided with a median.

02:51:17.200 --> 02:51:20.000
So this is a logical use for there.

02:51:20.000 --> 02:51:23.139
Nobody's going to build a house on it.

02:51:23.139 --> 02:51:26.309
We need to bring this property into use, an office, medical

02:51:26.309 --> 02:51:28.079
office, doctor's office, vet

02:51:28.079 --> 02:51:31.319
clinic, something like that is what makes sense.

02:51:31.319 --> 02:51:34.409
Like I said, two-thirds of the site is not usable because

02:51:34.409 --> 02:51:35.879
it's in the floodplain.

02:51:35.879 --> 02:51:38.879
So you've got tons of trees that will remain.

02:51:38.879 --> 02:51:41.469
There's about a -- there's that big piece that Julie

02:51:41.469 --> 02:51:43.159
referenced behind it separating

02:51:43.159 --> 02:51:45.760
the houses to the east.

02:51:45.760 --> 02:51:47.239
It's actually owned by the city, I believe.

02:51:47.239 --> 02:51:48.920
It's a utility easement.

02:51:48.920 --> 02:51:51.280
So there's a ton of separation between the usable area of

02:51:51.280 --> 02:51:52.520
this site and where there's

02:51:52.520 --> 02:51:54.799
actually houses.

02:51:54.799 --> 02:51:56.719
So I won't use my 20 minutes.

02:51:56.719 --> 02:51:59.149
I would just say that this requested zoning is consistent

02:51:59.149 --> 02:52:00.399
with what you see up and down

02:52:00.399 --> 02:52:02.959
this corridor.

02:52:02.959 --> 02:52:04.719
It's a logical use.

02:52:04.719 --> 02:52:07.600
I understand some of the opposition.

02:52:07.600 --> 02:52:11.469
I think you'd find the opposition backs up to the site, and

02:52:11.469 --> 02:52:12.799
I totally get it.

02:52:12.799 --> 02:52:15.149
If I had a free view of something for a long time, I really

02:52:15.149 --> 02:52:16.360
wouldn't want anybody building

02:52:16.360 --> 02:52:17.360
anything back there either.

02:52:17.360 --> 02:52:22.389
So I don't make anybody wrong for opposing something being

02:52:22.389 --> 02:52:24.319
built behind them.

02:52:24.319 --> 02:52:26.959
It's just the property needs to be used at this point.

02:52:26.959 --> 02:52:29.559
So we would appreciate your support.

02:52:29.559 --> 02:52:31.000
Got several questions for you.

02:52:31.000 --> 02:52:32.000
Commissioner Rosell.

02:52:32.000 --> 02:52:33.000
Thank you, Chair.

02:52:33.000 --> 02:52:34.000
Thank you, Mr. Price.

02:52:34.000 --> 02:52:38.600
The majority of the oppositions we received were from Pan

02:52:38.600 --> 02:52:42.000
ina Trail and Palmetto Court,

02:52:42.000 --> 02:52:45.959
the two streets here.

02:52:45.959 --> 02:52:49.719
But it seemed like through what you were saying from the

02:52:49.719 --> 02:52:53.360
east side, which is that Panina Trail,

02:52:53.360 --> 02:52:56.239
there's a significant portion that wouldn't be able to be

02:52:56.239 --> 02:52:57.879
developed because of that flood

02:52:57.879 --> 02:52:58.879
plain?

02:52:58.879 --> 02:53:02.239
Well, so we only own where this yellow line is.

02:53:02.239 --> 02:53:04.520
Here's the back of their houses right here.

02:53:04.520 --> 02:53:07.659
So this is actually a big utility easement that runs

02:53:07.659 --> 02:53:09.959
through here that I believe is owned

02:53:09.959 --> 02:53:10.959
by the city.

02:53:10.959 --> 02:53:14.520
So nothing can be built in there.

02:53:14.520 --> 02:53:18.200
And then secondly, you jump all the way over to here.

02:53:18.200 --> 02:53:20.290
I mean, I don't know how many feet that is, but so here's

02:53:20.290 --> 02:53:21.680
somebody's house in their entire

02:53:21.680 --> 02:53:22.920
lot.

02:53:22.920 --> 02:53:28.180
So you're talking one, two, two and a half, three times the

02:53:28.180 --> 02:53:30.879
size of their entire lot before

02:53:30.879 --> 02:53:33.239
you get to usable property.

02:53:33.239 --> 02:53:36.389
So and there's a ton of trees back here in this back part

02:53:36.389 --> 02:53:38.040
of this flood plain, which

02:53:38.040 --> 02:53:39.040
you can't build in.

02:53:39.040 --> 02:53:42.120
So there should be significant screening there, noise

02:53:42.120 --> 02:53:42.879
barriers.

02:53:42.879 --> 02:53:45.629
And then the other piece of it is when somebody's at an

02:53:45.629 --> 02:53:47.799
office working is when people are gone

02:53:47.799 --> 02:53:50.440
from their homes and when people come home from work, the

02:53:50.440 --> 02:53:51.559
offices are vacant.

02:53:51.559 --> 02:53:54.020
So it should be a pretty compatible use and plenty of

02:53:54.020 --> 02:53:55.079
screening there.

02:53:55.079 --> 02:53:56.079
Perfect.

02:53:56.079 --> 02:53:57.079
Thank you.

02:53:57.079 --> 02:53:58.079
Commissioner Ellis.

02:53:58.079 --> 02:53:59.079
Thank you, Chair.

02:53:59.079 --> 02:54:00.079
Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

02:54:00.079 --> 02:54:01.079
Okay.

02:54:01.079 --> 02:54:05.329
So my concern, of course, is that this is just right there

02:54:05.329 --> 02:54:07.520
in all this density of single

02:54:07.520 --> 02:54:08.520
family houses.

02:54:08.520 --> 02:54:11.950
Have you considered an overlay on this being that it's a

02:54:11.950 --> 02:54:14.040
zoning change, we can't tie it

02:54:14.040 --> 02:54:16.770
to any kind of development or anything that you're saying

02:54:16.770 --> 02:54:18.159
that it might be tonight.

02:54:18.159 --> 02:54:23.530
Have you considered eliminating certain uses, creating an

02:54:23.530 --> 02:54:26.760
overlay with this zoning change?

02:54:26.760 --> 02:54:28.200
Nobody has brought that up to us.

02:54:28.200 --> 02:54:32.409
I mean, so when I look at the site, if I look at the allow

02:54:32.409 --> 02:54:34.760
able uses in NRMU and I look at

02:54:34.760 --> 02:54:41.250
roughly 1.9 to 2 acres that's usable, I don't really know

02:54:41.250 --> 02:54:44.000
what else would go there.

02:54:44.000 --> 02:54:49.600
So the staff didn't ask us for one or nobody asked.

02:54:49.600 --> 02:54:53.440
I mean, the concerns from the citizens that we heard were

02:54:53.440 --> 02:54:55.280
automotive repair, the stuff

02:54:55.280 --> 02:54:57.920
that's allowed in CMG, or really tall buildings that can

02:54:57.920 --> 02:54:59.600
see down into my yard over the trees

02:54:59.600 --> 02:55:00.600
and those things.

02:55:00.600 --> 02:55:04.360
So with going from CMG to NRMU, I don't really know what

02:55:04.360 --> 02:55:06.319
else there would be that anybody

02:55:06.319 --> 02:55:07.319
would be concerned about.

02:55:07.319 --> 02:55:09.559
Well, I mean, it could be concerned with height.

02:55:09.559 --> 02:55:10.559
It's possible.

02:55:10.559 --> 02:55:16.120
I mean, I think we're at, what, 65 feet with NRMU?

02:55:16.120 --> 02:55:17.120
Within NRMU?

02:55:17.120 --> 02:55:19.319
I think so.

02:55:19.319 --> 02:55:22.440
I don't know what goes there that's 65 feet, meaning just

02:55:22.440 --> 02:55:24.040
with the area, the buildable

02:55:24.040 --> 02:55:30.760
area that you have, so.

02:55:30.760 --> 02:55:32.319
Were you at the community meeting?

02:55:32.319 --> 02:55:33.319
Yeah.

02:55:33.319 --> 02:55:34.319
Okay.

02:55:34.319 --> 02:55:36.629
Did you, were you able to address citizens' concerns,

02:55:36.629 --> 02:55:37.680
residents' concerns?

02:55:37.680 --> 02:55:41.079
Well, we answered all the questions that people had.

02:55:41.079 --> 02:55:42.600
Was that during the CMG discussion?

02:55:42.600 --> 02:55:43.600
That was during the CMG discussion.

02:55:43.600 --> 02:55:46.040
So you didn't have another one with the NRMU then?

02:55:46.040 --> 02:55:47.040
No.

02:55:47.040 --> 02:55:49.489
Staff just came back to us and said that based on the

02:55:49.489 --> 02:55:51.520
concerns that we heard, if you'd switched

02:55:51.520 --> 02:55:54.260
to NRMU, I think that would address the concerns, are you

02:55:54.260 --> 02:55:55.719
willing to switch to NRMU?

02:55:55.719 --> 02:55:57.709
Because what we think really goes here, I mean, we don't

02:55:57.709 --> 02:55:58.360
know, right?

02:55:58.360 --> 02:56:02.420
We don't have a user yet, but what we think really goes

02:56:02.420 --> 02:56:04.879
here is mid-block, no light, right

02:56:04.879 --> 02:56:08.280
in, right out access, and it's a pretty small parcel.

02:56:08.280 --> 02:56:12.049
So if you just look up and down Teasley, what's up and down

02:56:12.049 --> 02:56:14.360
Teasley, it's logical to understand

02:56:14.360 --> 02:56:16.840
that's what's going to happen over here, just because you

02:56:16.840 --> 02:56:18.059
're pretty limited on your

02:56:18.059 --> 02:56:20.760
buildable area.

02:56:20.760 --> 02:56:24.239
So in other words, could you build 65 feet in NRMU?

02:56:24.239 --> 02:56:25.239
I guess you could.

02:56:25.239 --> 02:56:27.200
I've never seen anybody do it.

02:56:27.200 --> 02:56:28.200
Okay.

02:56:28.200 --> 02:56:29.200
Because it just doesn't.

02:56:29.200 --> 02:56:30.200
But it can be done.

02:56:30.200 --> 02:56:31.200
It doesn't pencil.

02:56:31.200 --> 02:56:34.600
Won't be by me.

02:56:34.600 --> 02:56:35.600
Commissioner Beck.

02:56:35.600 --> 02:56:36.600
Thank you, Chair.

02:56:36.600 --> 02:56:40.790
Greg, I think I was the one that raised the concern about

02:56:40.790 --> 02:56:43.040
what citizens around that area

02:56:43.040 --> 02:56:45.200
are concerned about, about what's going to be built there.

02:56:45.200 --> 02:56:48.680
So bringing up the overlay district, I don't think would

02:56:48.680 --> 02:56:50.000
hurt either side.

02:56:50.000 --> 02:56:52.590
You're right, there's certain things that can't be built

02:56:52.590 --> 02:56:53.879
there, and it would convey

02:56:53.879 --> 02:56:56.930
a sense of security for the people who are concerned what

02:56:56.930 --> 02:56:58.200
can be built there.

02:56:58.200 --> 02:57:01.520
I mean, a hotel can be built there, obviously.

02:57:01.520 --> 02:57:04.680
I don't think there's room for that.

02:57:04.680 --> 02:57:08.120
The only other negative thing I see that would be allowed

02:57:08.120 --> 02:57:10.319
in an NRMU that people might object

02:57:10.319 --> 02:57:15.159
to is the semi-public halls, clubs, and lodges.

02:57:15.159 --> 02:57:19.920
So by putting an overlay district there and allowing things

02:57:19.920 --> 02:57:22.360
like a laundromat or doctor's

02:57:22.360 --> 02:57:25.020
offices, things like that, I think would give some

02:57:25.020 --> 02:57:27.559
assurance to the people there that what's

02:57:27.559 --> 02:57:30.170
going to be built there is going to be amenable to the area

02:57:30.170 --> 02:57:31.000
they live in.

02:57:31.000 --> 02:57:34.639
And I know you were comparing Teasley to, or 2499 to Teas

02:57:34.639 --> 02:57:36.280
ley, but I believe Teasley

02:57:36.280 --> 02:57:38.079
was there long before anything was.

02:57:38.079 --> 02:57:41.909
So they zoned accordingly around Teasley where these things

02:57:41.909 --> 02:57:43.920
, this area was already zoned

02:57:43.920 --> 02:57:46.860
and we're building a road through it, so just to make a

02:57:46.860 --> 02:57:47.479
point.

02:57:47.479 --> 02:57:50.829
But again, the overlay thing, would you be totally opposed

02:57:50.829 --> 02:57:51.440
to that?

02:57:51.440 --> 02:57:52.440
No.

02:57:52.440 --> 02:57:54.469
Again, if somebody wants to propose something and say, "

02:57:54.469 --> 02:57:55.879
Would this cause you any heartburn?"

02:57:55.879 --> 02:57:57.760
I certainly can respond to that.

02:57:57.760 --> 02:58:00.579
But I will correct your comment about Teasley was already

02:58:00.579 --> 02:58:02.319
built and all that stuff was there

02:58:02.319 --> 02:58:03.559
when the neighborhoods were built.

02:58:03.559 --> 02:58:05.040
It actually didn't happen that way.

02:58:05.040 --> 02:58:09.629
So you have office buildings on Teasley and properties on

02:58:09.629 --> 02:58:12.000
Teasley's own CMG and NRMU after

02:58:12.000 --> 02:58:13.479
all the residential was there.

02:58:13.479 --> 02:58:17.250
I remember driving down, biking down Teasley in the 70s

02:58:17.250 --> 02:58:19.200
when there was nothing but open

02:58:19.200 --> 02:58:20.200
fields.

02:58:20.200 --> 02:58:21.200
So...

02:58:21.200 --> 02:58:22.969
I don't know, the road was there, but I'm really talking

02:58:22.969 --> 02:58:24.399
about when the commercial...

02:58:24.399 --> 02:58:28.440
The zoning that came in, commercial, whatever CMG accommod

02:58:28.440 --> 02:58:29.399
ated that.

02:58:29.399 --> 02:58:32.649
But now we've got something that's already zoned and we

02:58:32.649 --> 02:58:34.319
built a road through it.

02:58:34.319 --> 02:58:37.290
So I'm just saying it's not a fair comparison, but it's not

02:58:37.290 --> 02:58:38.040
our...

02:58:38.040 --> 02:58:40.420
Yeah, I think, well, with all due respect, I think what we

02:58:40.420 --> 02:58:41.680
're trying to talk about here

02:58:41.680 --> 02:58:45.069
is can you... does it make sense to put NRMU zoning on a

02:58:45.069 --> 02:58:46.799
road frontage when there's houses

02:58:46.799 --> 02:58:47.799
behind it?

02:58:47.799 --> 02:58:48.799
I think that's really the question.

02:58:48.799 --> 02:58:51.850
And all I'm trying to respectfully say is that is what

02:58:51.850 --> 02:58:53.280
happened on Teasley.

02:58:53.280 --> 02:58:54.280
So if we...

02:58:54.280 --> 02:58:55.280
So...

02:58:55.280 --> 02:58:56.280
I guess here's the question.

02:58:56.280 --> 02:58:59.309
But if there's a question about a certain overlay, again,

02:58:59.309 --> 02:59:00.399
no one's asked us.

02:59:00.399 --> 02:59:01.399
We're open.

02:59:01.399 --> 02:59:03.719
I mean, if you're worried about a hotel, done.

02:59:03.719 --> 02:59:04.719
Nightclub, done.

02:59:04.719 --> 02:59:05.719
Or not done.

02:59:05.719 --> 02:59:06.719
Because it's not...

02:59:06.719 --> 02:59:09.000
Meaning, if you want to put that in overlay, we're fine.

02:59:09.000 --> 02:59:13.020
So if we approve this with that condition, you'd be okay

02:59:13.020 --> 02:59:14.040
with that?

02:59:14.040 --> 02:59:15.680
With no hotel and no...

02:59:15.680 --> 02:59:18.729
With the overlay that would specify what could and couldn't

02:59:18.729 --> 02:59:19.719
be built there.

02:59:19.719 --> 02:59:22.299
Well, I just want you to tell me what that is before I say

02:59:22.299 --> 02:59:22.840
I agree.

02:59:22.840 --> 02:59:25.959
Well, really, I only see a couple of things on here that

02:59:25.959 --> 02:59:28.799
would probably upset citizens.

02:59:28.799 --> 02:59:31.200
We would have no problem if you said we want an overlay

02:59:31.200 --> 02:59:32.879
that says no nightclubs, no bars,

02:59:32.879 --> 02:59:33.879
no hotels.

02:59:33.879 --> 02:59:34.879
Well, they're not allowed anyway.

02:59:34.879 --> 02:59:38.799
And I don't see them being allowed in here permitted.

02:59:38.799 --> 02:59:40.120
Oh, I thought that's what I heard you say.

02:59:40.120 --> 02:59:41.120
I'm sorry.

02:59:41.120 --> 02:59:44.760
Well, there was this semi-public halls, clubs, and lodges

02:59:44.760 --> 02:59:46.920
which could be perceived as that.

02:59:46.920 --> 02:59:47.920
And it may be, I don't know.

02:59:47.920 --> 02:59:50.850
But as far as just a rank bar or something like that, I don

02:59:50.850 --> 02:59:52.559
't think they'd be allowed.

02:59:52.559 --> 02:59:58.159
But anyway, what we're looking at is what's allowed in here

02:59:58.159 --> 03:00:00.959
that's not intense, low key,

03:00:00.959 --> 03:00:03.360
you know, and amenable to the neighborhood.

03:00:03.360 --> 03:00:04.360
Sure.

03:00:04.360 --> 03:00:05.360
Yeah.

03:00:05.360 --> 03:00:07.819
And what we're looking for is to be treated just like

03:00:07.819 --> 03:00:09.479
everybody else is, on a similar

03:00:09.479 --> 03:00:13.000
tract, on a similar road, with similar neighborhood behind

03:00:13.000 --> 03:00:13.399
it.

03:00:13.399 --> 03:00:17.159
The city built a very large public library with houses

03:00:17.159 --> 03:00:18.440
right behind it.

03:00:18.440 --> 03:00:20.899
We just saying, you know, we just want to be treated the

03:00:20.899 --> 03:00:21.399
same.

03:00:21.399 --> 03:00:24.670
And this property is pretty unique in that it has a huge

03:00:24.670 --> 03:00:26.879
floodplain area in the back and

03:00:26.879 --> 03:00:28.520
an additional buffer behind that.

03:00:28.520 --> 03:00:30.989
So quite a bit of distance between the houses and where you

03:00:30.989 --> 03:00:32.120
can build a building.

03:00:32.120 --> 03:00:34.709
And I guess I was educated and I had some staff correct me

03:00:34.709 --> 03:00:35.440
if I'm wrong.

03:00:35.440 --> 03:00:40.040
But the fact that it's a floodplain and it can't be built

03:00:40.040 --> 03:00:42.280
in, aren't there ways you can

03:00:42.280 --> 03:00:43.280
work around that?

03:00:43.280 --> 03:00:45.000
How are we working through any floodplain?

03:00:45.000 --> 03:00:48.770
Don't you, like an alternate ESA, isn't there something you

03:00:48.770 --> 03:00:51.360
can to work through these floodplains?

03:00:51.360 --> 03:00:56.049
I don't know if this is for me, but I know that you can do

03:00:56.049 --> 03:00:58.680
reclamation, which is very

03:00:58.680 --> 03:00:59.680
expensive.

03:00:59.680 --> 03:01:00.680
Right.

03:01:00.680 --> 03:01:01.680
Okay.

03:01:01.680 --> 03:01:04.120
So you can't build there, but if you did, it'd be pretty

03:01:04.120 --> 03:01:04.840
expensive.

03:01:04.840 --> 03:01:09.360
That's probably something you don't see happening.

03:01:09.360 --> 03:01:12.159
The answer is you can't build in floodplains.

03:01:12.159 --> 03:01:13.760
So you just can't.

03:01:13.760 --> 03:01:14.760
Okay.

03:01:14.760 --> 03:01:15.760
That's what I was saying.

03:01:15.760 --> 03:01:16.760
Reclamation is just...

03:01:16.760 --> 03:01:20.559
You would build it up so that it's no longer in the flood

03:01:20.559 --> 03:01:21.319
plain.

03:01:21.319 --> 03:01:22.319
Okay.

03:01:22.319 --> 03:01:24.120
But not actually in the floodplain.

03:01:24.120 --> 03:01:25.120
Right.

03:01:25.120 --> 03:01:26.120
Okay.

03:01:26.120 --> 03:01:27.120
All right.

03:01:27.120 --> 03:01:28.120
Great.

03:01:28.120 --> 03:01:29.120
Thanks.

03:01:29.120 --> 03:01:30.120
Floodway versus floodplain would be the difference.

03:01:30.120 --> 03:01:31.120
Okay.

03:01:31.120 --> 03:01:32.120
Thank you.

03:01:32.120 --> 03:01:33.120
Thank you.

03:01:33.120 --> 03:01:34.120
Commissioner Sullivan.

03:01:34.120 --> 03:01:37.120
Thank you, Chair.

03:01:37.120 --> 03:01:40.159
My concerns would be, as you've already addressed, on the

03:01:40.159 --> 03:01:42.399
east side, you've got the floodplain.

03:01:42.399 --> 03:01:46.190
You've got plenty of easement between the homes that were

03:01:46.190 --> 03:01:48.159
there before you bought your

03:01:48.159 --> 03:01:49.159
property.

03:01:49.159 --> 03:01:50.959
And so that's okay.

03:01:50.959 --> 03:01:53.959
To the west, you've got $24.99.

03:01:53.959 --> 03:01:55.680
So that's what's going in.

03:01:55.680 --> 03:01:58.750
The biggest concern, though, is on the south side, we've

03:01:58.750 --> 03:02:00.399
got those homes that have been

03:02:00.399 --> 03:02:05.200
there for a while, and I think there's a community pool at

03:02:05.200 --> 03:02:07.319
the end of that circle.

03:02:07.319 --> 03:02:12.430
And so I guess my concern is what kind of an easement is

03:02:12.430 --> 03:02:15.559
going to be between those lines

03:02:15.559 --> 03:02:20.260
of homes and access to the pool area that is going to get

03:02:20.260 --> 03:02:22.760
it far enough away from them

03:02:22.760 --> 03:02:26.950
that it's not going to intrude on what they've been living

03:02:26.950 --> 03:02:28.799
with for the past five or six

03:02:28.799 --> 03:02:30.319
or ten years or whatever.

03:02:30.319 --> 03:02:31.319
Sure.

03:02:31.319 --> 03:02:34.920
And so just like any similar property where you have a

03:02:34.920 --> 03:02:37.799
commercial use next to a neighborhood,

03:02:37.799 --> 03:02:41.149
which is very typical with office uses, et cetera, the city

03:02:41.149 --> 03:02:42.479
has a guideline in place

03:02:42.479 --> 03:02:43.479
for that.

03:02:43.479 --> 03:02:46.159
So you've got a true setback, and then you've got a

03:02:46.159 --> 03:02:48.600
building setback, and you've got landscape

03:02:48.600 --> 03:02:51.559
requirements and buffer requirements and either a

03:02:51.559 --> 03:02:55.079
separation fence or an alternative landscape

03:02:55.079 --> 03:02:58.340
buffer where you can do more landscaping in lieu of the

03:02:58.340 --> 03:02:59.000
fence.

03:02:59.000 --> 03:03:01.309
And so when it comes time for somebody to build on this,

03:03:01.309 --> 03:03:02.360
whether it's a doctor or a

03:03:02.360 --> 03:03:05.469
dentist or whoever, they're going to have to follow all

03:03:05.469 --> 03:03:07.079
those criteria and meet the

03:03:07.079 --> 03:03:08.639
city's requirement for the separation.

03:03:08.639 --> 03:03:12.120
And so that's why NRMU probably does make sense, which is

03:03:12.120 --> 03:03:14.120
its neighborhood residential

03:03:14.120 --> 03:03:15.120
makes use.

03:03:15.120 --> 03:03:18.479
It's the purpose of the zoning is to have it up against

03:03:18.479 --> 03:03:20.600
neighborhoods, and then so they've

03:03:20.600 --> 03:03:23.750
got all those requirements in there in terms of the per

03:03:23.750 --> 03:03:26.200
vious area, landscape requirements,

03:03:26.200 --> 03:03:27.200
et cetera.

03:03:27.200 --> 03:03:31.250
But when you held your public meeting, it was based on the

03:03:31.250 --> 03:03:33.120
other zoning and not this

03:03:33.120 --> 03:03:34.120
zoning.

03:03:34.120 --> 03:03:36.430
It was based on CMG, which allows a lot of the same uses,

03:03:36.430 --> 03:03:37.520
but also allows a lot more

03:03:37.520 --> 03:03:38.520
intense uses.

03:03:38.520 --> 03:03:39.520
Exactly.

03:03:39.520 --> 03:03:40.520
And that's what I'm saying.

03:03:40.520 --> 03:03:43.799
And I'm just wondering if you were to go back to the

03:03:43.799 --> 03:03:46.040
neighborhood and say, "Okay, here's

03:03:46.040 --> 03:03:51.540
what we've revised, going to a different NRMU zoning, and

03:03:51.540 --> 03:03:54.440
here's what the possibilities

03:03:54.440 --> 03:03:55.440
are."

03:03:55.440 --> 03:03:57.959
I just wonder, would that alleviate some of their concerns?

03:03:57.959 --> 03:04:02.319
I mean, obviously I don't know, and you don't know, but I'm

03:04:02.319 --> 03:04:04.280
just wondering if that is a

03:04:04.280 --> 03:04:09.430
possibility of going back and rather than having -- because

03:04:09.430 --> 03:04:11.479
actually I count eight,

03:04:11.479 --> 03:04:14.760
I think, negative responses and not what we have here.

03:04:14.760 --> 03:04:19.840
But so it seems like there are a lot of -- there are no

03:04:19.840 --> 03:04:23.600
positives at all and negatives with

03:04:23.600 --> 03:04:25.760
the old zoning.

03:04:25.760 --> 03:04:30.250
So I'm just wondering, would that -- would you be opposed

03:04:30.250 --> 03:04:32.520
to having a public meeting,

03:04:32.520 --> 03:04:37.020
another meeting, with the new zoning and talk to them about

03:04:37.020 --> 03:04:39.639
what the possibilities are?

03:04:39.639 --> 03:04:40.639
Sure.

03:04:40.639 --> 03:04:44.600
So when we re-noticed everyone with NRMU, I did receive

03:04:44.600 --> 03:04:46.719
some phone calls from some of

03:04:46.719 --> 03:04:47.719
the folks.

03:04:47.719 --> 03:04:48.719
My information was provided.

03:04:48.719 --> 03:04:52.930
Anyone that wanted to call me could call me, answer any

03:04:52.930 --> 03:04:55.360
questions that they may have.

03:04:55.360 --> 03:04:58.389
We talked in the public meeting about, here's what likely

03:04:58.389 --> 03:04:59.159
goes here.

03:04:59.159 --> 03:05:01.440
I mean, in the neighborhood meeting, sorry.

03:05:01.440 --> 03:05:02.440
Here's what likely goes here.

03:05:02.440 --> 03:05:04.959
I mean, I'm in the business, been in business a long time.

03:05:04.959 --> 03:05:07.000
I sell property like this.

03:05:07.000 --> 03:05:09.350
There's just certain uses that won't go because of the

03:05:09.350 --> 03:05:11.239
nature of where it sits and the access

03:05:11.239 --> 03:05:12.719
and so on.

03:05:12.719 --> 03:05:16.879
So I mean, do I want to delay this even longer?

03:05:16.879 --> 03:05:17.879
We've been at it a while.

03:05:17.879 --> 03:05:20.399
Do I want to delay it longer and do another public meeting?

03:05:20.399 --> 03:05:23.360
Frankly, I don't know that you get a different result

03:05:23.360 --> 03:05:25.479
because I'm not so sure that all these

03:05:25.479 --> 03:05:29.670
people are opposed to a doctor's office or whatever, you

03:05:29.670 --> 03:05:31.840
know, the logical use that will

03:05:31.840 --> 03:05:32.840
go here.

03:05:32.840 --> 03:05:33.840
I get it.

03:05:33.840 --> 03:05:36.000
They don't want anything to be built behind them.

03:05:36.000 --> 03:05:37.000
It's a great view.

03:05:37.000 --> 03:05:38.000
It's free.

03:05:38.000 --> 03:05:39.860
I mean, I think if you were to say a doctor, I mean, heck,

03:05:39.860 --> 03:05:41.239
most of them might be patients,

03:05:41.239 --> 03:05:45.010
but you know, I'm not sure how quick that area is going to

03:05:45.010 --> 03:05:47.319
be built out because 2499

03:05:47.319 --> 03:05:49.079
is still waiting to open up.

03:05:49.079 --> 03:05:52.969
But the point is, once it is built out, then you're going

03:05:52.969 --> 03:05:55.040
to have limited access to and

03:05:55.040 --> 03:06:00.479
from, you know, say the neighborhoods behind you, when they

03:06:00.479 --> 03:06:02.920
come out under Robinson and

03:06:02.920 --> 03:06:06.200
come over and turn, they're not going to be able to go

03:06:06.200 --> 03:06:07.520
south and turn in.

03:06:07.520 --> 03:06:10.370
They have to go on further down somewhere, make a U-turn

03:06:10.370 --> 03:06:11.200
and come in.

03:06:11.200 --> 03:06:13.440
So that's not going to be convenient.

03:06:13.440 --> 03:06:16.909
So I'm just wondering how much in and out traffic is, you

03:06:16.909 --> 03:06:18.840
know, what kind of a business

03:06:18.840 --> 03:06:22.360
would want that limited traffic?

03:06:22.360 --> 03:06:24.360
Right.

03:06:24.360 --> 03:06:27.340
And that's the point I'm making is what uses would go there

03:06:27.340 --> 03:06:28.879
, retail won't go there.

03:06:28.879 --> 03:06:30.959
The access is bad for retail.

03:06:30.959 --> 03:06:33.479
The visibility, it's not on the corner.

03:06:33.479 --> 03:06:35.100
There's not a traffic signal.

03:06:35.100 --> 03:06:37.959
And so what we think logically ends up going here is some

03:06:37.959 --> 03:06:39.319
sort of an office use.

03:06:39.319 --> 03:06:41.819
And that's pretty much, if you look at the map I showed, if

03:06:41.819 --> 03:06:43.040
you just drive up and down

03:06:43.040 --> 03:06:47.719
Teasley, what goes on these kind of sites, office buildings

03:06:47.719 --> 03:06:48.040
?

03:06:48.040 --> 03:06:52.690
So you know, we don't really have a whole lot of options on

03:06:52.690 --> 03:06:53.719
access.

03:06:53.719 --> 03:06:57.909
The wall that TexDOT built because of the drainage system

03:06:57.909 --> 03:06:59.840
they put right through the

03:06:59.840 --> 03:07:03.479
middle of our property, there's going to be a place for a

03:07:03.479 --> 03:07:05.479
curb cut somewhere right down

03:07:05.479 --> 03:07:07.440
here and that's going to be it.

03:07:07.440 --> 03:07:09.870
Because you can't, you know, it wouldn't make sense for

03:07:09.870 --> 03:07:11.399
anybody to build a bridge across

03:07:11.399 --> 03:07:14.200
flood plain to have a curb cut over here.

03:07:14.200 --> 03:07:16.510
So you know, most logically you have to have the, meet the

03:07:16.510 --> 03:07:17.959
distance requirement from Pine

03:07:17.959 --> 03:07:21.559
Hills and have a right in, right out because there's a

03:07:21.559 --> 03:07:23.760
median that runs from Pine Hills

03:07:23.760 --> 03:07:24.920
all the way up here.

03:07:24.920 --> 03:07:26.620
There's no separation.

03:07:26.620 --> 03:07:30.520
So who would go on a one way right in, right out access?

03:07:30.520 --> 03:07:34.420
Not retail, not car servicing, not you know, those things

03:07:34.420 --> 03:07:35.120
in CMG.

03:07:35.120 --> 03:07:37.760
It's likely going to be an office use.

03:07:37.760 --> 03:07:40.920
Thank you.

03:07:40.920 --> 03:07:42.079
See any other questions?

03:07:42.079 --> 03:07:44.280
Thank you.

03:07:44.280 --> 03:07:48.639
This is a public hearing and I do have three cards.

03:07:48.639 --> 03:07:49.639
Kay O'Keefe?

03:07:49.639 --> 03:07:55.319
Do you not want to speak?

03:07:55.319 --> 03:07:56.319
Okay.

03:07:56.319 --> 03:07:57.319
You're correct.

03:07:57.319 --> 03:08:00.319
I'm sorry, I see a yellow card.

03:08:00.319 --> 03:08:02.479
I got a lot up here.

03:08:02.479 --> 03:08:03.479
You're in opposition.

03:08:03.479 --> 03:08:05.479
I'll just read this into the record.

03:08:05.479 --> 03:08:07.479
Kay O'Keefe, 3711.

03:08:07.479 --> 03:08:11.319
Palmetto Court, in opposition.

03:08:11.319 --> 03:08:15.079
I have another card.

03:08:15.079 --> 03:08:18.520
Renee Iserman does not wish to speak.

03:08:18.520 --> 03:08:19.520
Okay.

03:08:19.520 --> 03:08:21.280
You're welcome to change your mind.

03:08:21.280 --> 03:08:24.879
Please come forward and state your name and address.

03:08:24.879 --> 03:08:28.600
My name is Renee Iserman.

03:08:28.600 --> 03:08:33.760
Renee Iserman, 3901 Luck Hole Drive, Dent, Texas.

03:08:33.760 --> 03:08:38.440
We discussed Pinnatrell and I understand that there is,

03:08:38.440 --> 03:08:41.159
they're not going to be building

03:08:41.159 --> 03:08:42.159
on that.

03:08:42.159 --> 03:08:45.200
The biggest concern is that Palmetto Court.

03:08:45.200 --> 03:08:47.819
If you look at that, there are houses that are backed up to

03:08:47.819 --> 03:08:50.319
that yellow line.

03:08:50.319 --> 03:08:56.450
And it's the land that we're looking at is a known flood

03:08:56.450 --> 03:08:57.479
zone.

03:08:57.479 --> 03:09:02.739
And where you see the pool right off of Palmetto, right

03:09:02.739 --> 03:09:06.040
next to that is a large strip of land

03:09:06.040 --> 03:09:07.040
that's deep.

03:09:07.040 --> 03:09:09.280
It's never flooded.

03:09:09.280 --> 03:09:15.190
However, in the small area that they're proposing to build

03:09:15.190 --> 03:09:18.239
on this lot, it backs right up to

03:09:18.239 --> 03:09:19.680
the houses.

03:09:19.680 --> 03:09:25.959
And it's going to be closer to the houses than not.

03:09:25.959 --> 03:09:28.559
Is there going to be an engineering study for flooding

03:09:28.559 --> 03:09:30.360
before they even start to build?

03:09:30.360 --> 03:09:33.280
Is that a requirement of the city?

03:09:33.280 --> 03:09:36.239
They'll have to go through a full civil process on this.

03:09:36.239 --> 03:09:37.360
That's not before us tonight.

03:09:37.360 --> 03:09:38.840
We're just looking at the zoning.

03:09:38.840 --> 03:09:40.959
But that's, see, that's a big, that's a concern.

03:09:40.959 --> 03:09:44.799
I don't think people mind there being something there.

03:09:44.799 --> 03:09:46.440
We don't know what's going to be there.

03:09:46.440 --> 03:09:48.850
And we don't know what effect it's going to have on these

03:09:48.850 --> 03:09:50.239
houses at Palmetto Court.

03:09:50.239 --> 03:09:51.239
Okay.

03:09:51.239 --> 03:09:54.280
Well, that will all be addressed when this comes back

03:09:54.280 --> 03:09:56.159
before us for, before it could

03:09:56.159 --> 03:09:57.159
be final platted.

03:09:57.159 --> 03:09:58.159
Okay.

03:09:58.159 --> 03:10:00.799
They would have to have a full set of engineering and civil

03:10:00.799 --> 03:10:02.319
study and city staff would have

03:10:02.319 --> 03:10:03.319
to review all of that.

03:10:03.319 --> 03:10:04.319
Okay.

03:10:04.319 --> 03:10:06.329
And make sure that it meets all the city requirements for

03:10:06.329 --> 03:10:07.000
development.

03:10:07.000 --> 03:10:09.719
So tonight you could possibly approve it.

03:10:09.719 --> 03:10:12.309
However, what's the next step before we see that it's gone

03:10:12.309 --> 03:10:13.879
through the engineering study?

03:10:13.879 --> 03:10:15.840
Is that after city council or?

03:10:15.840 --> 03:10:18.879
So we're just looking at zoning tonight.

03:10:18.879 --> 03:10:21.469
And then the next step for a developer, if they find a user

03:10:21.469 --> 03:10:22.600
, is to do what's called a

03:10:22.600 --> 03:10:24.600
preliminary plat or a site plan.

03:10:24.600 --> 03:10:25.600
Okay.

03:10:25.600 --> 03:10:27.700
And then bring that back before us and then a final plat

03:10:27.700 --> 03:10:28.959
and those go through all types

03:10:28.959 --> 03:10:30.959
of reviews with city staff before they come forward.

03:10:30.959 --> 03:10:34.590
Yeah, I think there needs to be some assurances to the

03:10:34.590 --> 03:10:37.280
neighbors because we've been here for

03:10:37.280 --> 03:10:38.280
over 15 years.

03:10:38.280 --> 03:10:39.280
Sure.

03:10:39.280 --> 03:10:40.280
And never had a problem.

03:10:40.280 --> 03:10:44.489
And anytime something new comes in, I know that 2499 has

03:10:44.489 --> 03:10:46.040
done their studies.

03:10:46.040 --> 03:10:50.629
However, their studies didn't include a change in zoning

03:10:50.629 --> 03:10:51.520
either.

03:10:51.520 --> 03:10:52.520
Sure.

03:10:52.520 --> 03:10:54.000
So that's our concern.

03:10:54.000 --> 03:10:55.000
Okay.

03:10:55.000 --> 03:10:57.000
Well, thank you for bringing those to our attention.

03:10:57.000 --> 03:10:58.000
Question?

03:10:58.000 --> 03:10:59.000
Commissioner Beck.

03:10:59.000 --> 03:11:00.000
Ms. Isherman.

03:11:00.000 --> 03:11:01.000
Yes, sir.

03:11:01.000 --> 03:11:04.000
I have a question for you, please.

03:11:04.000 --> 03:11:06.159
First off, thanks for coming down and speaking.

03:11:06.159 --> 03:11:07.760
We always appreciate public input.

03:11:07.760 --> 03:11:08.760
Thank you.

03:11:08.760 --> 03:11:09.760
So thank you for taking the time.

03:11:09.760 --> 03:11:14.030
Were you listening a while ago when I was talking to Greg

03:11:14.030 --> 03:11:16.440
Johnson about approving this

03:11:16.440 --> 03:11:20.340
zoning change but with an overlay district that would allow

03:11:20.340 --> 03:11:21.719
us to control to a certain

03:11:21.719 --> 03:11:24.760
degree the things that go in there, things that would be

03:11:24.760 --> 03:11:26.440
amenable to backing up to your

03:11:26.440 --> 03:11:29.930
house like a doctor's office, something that runs 8 to 5,

03:11:29.930 --> 03:11:31.799
maybe Monday through Friday.

03:11:31.799 --> 03:11:32.799
Right.

03:11:32.799 --> 03:11:35.110
And to be real honest with you, I did understand that I did

03:11:35.110 --> 03:11:36.559
hear the overlay but I just didn't

03:11:36.559 --> 03:11:37.559
understand what that meant.

03:11:37.559 --> 03:11:38.559
Okay.

03:11:38.559 --> 03:11:40.280
So you didn't understand that it would be with controls?

03:11:40.280 --> 03:11:41.280
Right.

03:11:41.280 --> 03:11:45.989
There are certain things that are permitted within the NRMU

03:11:45.989 --> 03:11:46.319
.

03:11:46.319 --> 03:11:48.959
Some of them may not be to your liking, like a hotel,

03:11:48.959 --> 03:11:50.879
especially a big one, but a laundry

03:11:50.879 --> 03:11:54.149
mat would, you know, if it worked within certain hours,

03:11:54.149 --> 03:11:56.000
that wouldn't be disrupted.

03:11:56.000 --> 03:11:57.680
That's kind of a quiet thing.

03:11:57.680 --> 03:11:58.680
Okay.

03:11:58.680 --> 03:12:01.329
And the other thing is what kind of a buffer other than the

03:12:01.329 --> 03:12:02.799
trees would be there against

03:12:02.799 --> 03:12:05.239
-- you know, that's another thing that we need to work on

03:12:05.239 --> 03:12:06.479
as far as that goes because

03:12:06.479 --> 03:12:08.600
there needs to be a buffer there.

03:12:08.600 --> 03:12:10.040
I'll let staff answer that.

03:12:10.040 --> 03:12:12.530
I think though that there will be -- there will probably be

03:12:12.530 --> 03:12:13.479
some kind of wall.

03:12:13.479 --> 03:12:15.600
I call on Julie to answer your question.

03:12:15.600 --> 03:12:31.000
She can give you some specific information.

03:12:31.000 --> 03:12:34.139
Single family development adjacent to commercial requires a

03:12:34.139 --> 03:12:36.079
type C buffer, which is a 15 foot

03:12:36.079 --> 03:12:37.079
buffer.

03:12:37.079 --> 03:12:42.670
Planted with six evergreen and deciduous trees and 25 shr

03:12:42.670 --> 03:12:45.799
ubs per 100 linear feet.

03:12:45.799 --> 03:12:48.280
We don't require fencing in the city of Denver.

03:12:48.280 --> 03:12:49.280
Okay.

03:12:49.280 --> 03:12:53.159
So it would be landscaping, not a wall or anything.

03:12:53.159 --> 03:12:54.159
Okay.

03:12:54.159 --> 03:12:55.159
Thank you.

03:12:55.159 --> 03:12:56.159
Thank you, Ms. Easterman.

03:12:56.159 --> 03:12:59.440
I have one more card.

03:12:59.440 --> 03:13:03.200
Chris Mulkey does not wish to speak.

03:13:03.200 --> 03:13:09.040
He's on 6200 Pinien Trail and he is in opposition.

03:13:09.040 --> 03:13:15.229
I don't know that I have -- I have some other -- I think

03:13:15.229 --> 03:13:20.680
these are duplicates.

03:13:20.680 --> 03:13:28.329
I have one other -- just a letter in response to the notice

03:13:28.329 --> 03:13:32.280
sent out from Joyce George at

03:13:32.280 --> 03:13:42.280
6509 Alder Brook Drive as opposed to the request.

03:13:42.280 --> 03:13:56.159
It would be Jacob Piot, 3715 Palmetto Court as opposed.

03:13:56.159 --> 03:14:04.709
A's, can't make out the handwriting on the last name, and

03:14:04.709 --> 03:14:10.040
Roger at 6404 Pinien Trail

03:14:10.040 --> 03:14:13.040
as opposed.

03:14:13.040 --> 03:14:20.920
P, Baria, I think Maeve already sent in.

03:14:20.920 --> 03:14:30.680
6212 Pinien Trail as opposed.

03:14:30.680 --> 03:14:34.979
Those are all the comment cards or responses that we

03:14:34.979 --> 03:14:36.000
receive.

03:14:36.000 --> 03:14:37.000
This is a public hearing.

03:14:37.000 --> 03:14:38.920
If there's someone else who'd like to speak, please come

03:14:38.920 --> 03:14:39.920
forward and give us your name

03:14:39.920 --> 03:14:43.920
and address and then we've got your card.

03:14:43.920 --> 03:14:44.920
Awesome.

03:14:44.920 --> 03:14:48.360
Steven Shannon, 319 West Oak here in Denton, Texas.

03:14:48.360 --> 03:14:51.719
I'm also one of the owners of the property.

03:14:51.719 --> 03:14:55.239
On those oppositions, I noticed you read the CMG ones as

03:14:55.239 --> 03:14:55.840
well.

03:14:55.840 --> 03:14:58.280
The only thing that's before you is the NRMU.

03:14:58.280 --> 03:15:01.819
So I think it's -- while we want to be transparent, there's

03:15:01.819 --> 03:15:04.799
only five neighbors that are in opposition.

03:15:04.799 --> 03:15:08.989
Well, it doesn't say this was just -- It should say it at

03:15:08.989 --> 03:15:10.040
the top.

03:15:10.040 --> 03:15:15.040
It says REX -- REX, RNMU, and then CMG as well.

03:15:15.040 --> 03:15:19.680
Let me double check that they're all that way, NRMU, NRMU,

03:15:19.680 --> 03:15:20.440
NRMU.

03:15:20.440 --> 03:15:21.440
So these are current.

03:15:21.440 --> 03:15:22.440
Okay, good.

03:15:22.440 --> 03:15:24.239
I received a package from the CMG.

03:15:24.239 --> 03:15:27.340
They were brought to us right before a meeting, so that's

03:15:27.340 --> 03:15:29.040
the last count that we have.

03:15:29.040 --> 03:15:30.040
Great.

03:15:30.040 --> 03:15:33.989
Much like Greg has already told you, we feel like the -- we

03:15:33.989 --> 03:15:35.840
came in and asked based on

03:15:35.840 --> 03:15:38.540
first staff recommendation for CMG zoning and after our

03:15:38.540 --> 03:15:40.280
neighborhood meeting and meeting

03:15:40.280 --> 03:15:46.260
with neighbors, reduced that density down to NRMU to help

03:15:46.260 --> 03:15:50.120
alleviate some of their concerns.

03:15:50.120 --> 03:15:52.149
One of the great things about our city is that we have

03:15:52.149 --> 03:15:53.079
straight zoning.

03:15:53.079 --> 03:15:56.850
And so that each thing that we have zoned, it's got a set

03:15:56.850 --> 03:15:58.680
of rules that we've got to

03:15:58.680 --> 03:15:59.680
follow.

03:15:59.680 --> 03:16:01.840
And so there are setback requirements.

03:16:01.840 --> 03:16:06.030
All the things that Julie just mentioned govern what we can

03:16:06.030 --> 03:16:06.479
do.

03:16:06.479 --> 03:16:09.909
I understand that there's concerns, as I've heard you talk

03:16:09.909 --> 03:16:11.520
about, what are we going to

03:16:11.520 --> 03:16:12.520
do from an engineering standpoint?

03:16:12.520 --> 03:16:14.520
What are we going to do from a floodplain standpoint?

03:16:14.520 --> 03:16:18.739
I mean, all of those things are contemplated as we go to

03:16:18.739 --> 03:16:20.120
development.

03:16:20.120 --> 03:16:23.090
And I've been through that process with the city, and it's

03:16:23.090 --> 03:16:24.639
an exhaustive process, which

03:16:24.639 --> 03:16:26.879
is great.

03:16:26.879 --> 03:16:31.069
And so we feel comfortable with what the city's asked us to

03:16:31.069 --> 03:16:32.559
do to build here.

03:16:32.559 --> 03:16:35.610
And we know that will govern this property, regardless of

03:16:35.610 --> 03:16:37.319
how it gets zoned, those rules

03:16:37.319 --> 03:16:38.940
are still in place.

03:16:38.940 --> 03:16:43.840
We feel that NRMU is appropriate for what's in the area.

03:16:43.840 --> 03:16:47.799
You look at Teasley, you've got NRMU and even more dense CM

03:16:47.799 --> 03:16:51.319
G backing up to residential neighborhoods.

03:16:51.319 --> 03:16:55.200
So to kind of say this property wouldn't qualify is a

03:16:55.200 --> 03:16:58.159
little bit beyond me when you're allowing

03:16:58.159 --> 03:17:03.319
that use in numerous other places right next to us.

03:17:03.319 --> 03:17:07.379
The buffer, somebody asked earlier, it's over 200 feet from

03:17:07.379 --> 03:17:09.040
that back fence outside of the

03:17:09.040 --> 03:17:11.879
floodplain going from east to west.

03:17:11.879 --> 03:17:19.399
So that's a very wide swath of trees and green space.

03:17:19.399 --> 03:17:21.989
We do want to be, we live here as well, we want to be

03:17:21.989 --> 03:17:22.959
neighborly.

03:17:22.959 --> 03:17:24.239
And so we understand the concerns.

03:17:24.239 --> 03:17:27.209
We want to build things that last beyond us and that we can

03:17:27.209 --> 03:17:28.959
be proud of in our community.

03:17:28.959 --> 03:17:33.389
So we do want to be sensitive to the neighborhoods, but we

03:17:33.389 --> 03:17:36.319
also want to utilize the property to

03:17:36.319 --> 03:17:37.319
its best use.

03:17:37.319 --> 03:17:38.319
So thank you.

03:17:38.319 --> 03:17:39.319
>> Thank you.

03:17:39.319 --> 03:17:40.719
Do you have a question for me?

03:17:40.719 --> 03:17:41.719
Commissioner Beck?

03:17:41.719 --> 03:17:42.719
>> Thank you, Chair.

03:17:42.719 --> 03:17:46.200
Thank you, Mr. Shannon, for your presentation.

03:17:46.200 --> 03:17:48.260
And it's become clear from what you said and what Greg

03:17:48.260 --> 03:17:49.559
Johnson has said that really there's

03:17:49.559 --> 03:17:52.000
not a lot you can build on this thing.

03:17:52.000 --> 03:17:54.729
And it seems the bulk of the concern for the citizens, and

03:17:54.729 --> 03:17:56.280
I know there's only five, but

03:17:56.280 --> 03:17:58.340
they are the five that back up to this property and

03:17:58.340 --> 03:18:00.239
naturally they would be more concerned,

03:18:00.239 --> 03:18:02.719
but is what is going to be built there.

03:18:02.719 --> 03:18:06.280
So again, I would submit to you, would you have a problem

03:18:06.280 --> 03:18:08.600
if we approved this with conditions

03:18:08.600 --> 03:18:11.760
and the condition being an overlay that would control to

03:18:11.760 --> 03:18:13.600
some degree what you're going to

03:18:13.600 --> 03:18:14.600
build there.

03:18:14.600 --> 03:18:17.600
I don't think you're going to build a hotel there.

03:18:17.600 --> 03:18:18.639
There's no room for it.

03:18:18.639 --> 03:18:21.799
And there's maybe one or two other items on here that might

03:18:21.799 --> 03:18:23.280
be a concern to neighbors

03:18:23.280 --> 03:18:25.040
on there that you probably wouldn't build.

03:18:25.040 --> 03:18:29.250
But an office complex for a doctor or a small laundromat's

03:18:29.250 --> 03:18:31.520
allowed, I don't know if that

03:18:31.520 --> 03:18:32.520
would be built.

03:18:32.520 --> 03:18:34.659
But something quiet and not too intense, would you be

03:18:34.659 --> 03:18:35.559
opposed to that?

03:18:35.559 --> 03:18:38.639
>> As long as I don't have to arm Russell and Greg, I'm

03:18:38.639 --> 03:18:39.200
good.

03:18:39.200 --> 03:18:42.520
No, we get it.

03:18:42.520 --> 03:18:44.920
As long as you tell us what you're asking for us from the

03:18:44.920 --> 03:18:46.200
overlay and we understand

03:18:46.200 --> 03:18:47.200
what you're asking.

03:18:47.200 --> 03:18:49.120
>> Right, and we would want you to be able to build

03:18:49.120 --> 03:18:50.639
something to be successful too.

03:18:50.639 --> 03:18:54.799
At the same time, we have to weigh this between you and me.

03:18:54.799 --> 03:18:56.680
>> I don't think anything that I think we're pretty

03:18:56.680 --> 03:18:57.559
reasonable folks.

03:18:57.559 --> 03:19:00.229
As long as you're being reasonable, then I don't think we

03:19:00.229 --> 03:19:01.440
have a problem at all.

03:19:01.440 --> 03:19:03.239
>> Reasonable is the way we want to go.

03:19:03.239 --> 03:19:04.239
All right.

03:19:04.239 --> 03:19:05.239
Thank you, sir.

03:19:05.239 --> 03:19:06.709
>> Commissioner Back, do you have some things that you'd

03:19:06.709 --> 03:19:07.799
like to propose to give the applicant

03:19:07.799 --> 03:19:13.040
a chance to consider those while we work through this list?

03:19:13.040 --> 03:19:18.959
>> Again, the only thing that I can see that would be

03:19:18.959 --> 03:19:22.520
permitted under NMRU that anybody

03:19:22.520 --> 03:19:25.639
would be opposed to is the hotel.

03:19:25.639 --> 03:19:33.239
They won't even allow motels.

03:19:33.239 --> 03:19:37.559
And the semi-public halls, clubs and lodges, adult and

03:19:37.559 --> 03:19:40.079
child care and daycare, kindergarten,

03:19:40.079 --> 03:19:41.079
they're all allowed.

03:19:41.079 --> 03:19:43.430
I don't know that citizens would be opposed to those kind

03:19:43.430 --> 03:19:44.000
of things.

03:19:44.000 --> 03:19:47.280
I don't know that you've got the room to build it though.

03:19:47.280 --> 03:19:50.879
>> I don't think that use would comply with it.

03:19:50.879 --> 03:19:53.659
>> Bars and restaurants are allowed, so that overlay would

03:19:53.659 --> 03:19:55.079
prevent those kind of things

03:19:55.079 --> 03:19:56.079
from being put in.

03:19:56.079 --> 03:19:57.079
>> So you'd prevent a restaurant from going there?

03:19:57.079 --> 03:19:59.319
>> Well, are you going to have the room?

03:19:59.319 --> 03:20:00.319
What do you got there?

03:20:00.319 --> 03:20:02.680
>> Well, I think that's pretty -- I mean, part of it I'll

03:20:02.680 --> 03:20:03.799
look at and I'll say we do

03:20:03.799 --> 03:20:07.040
have straight zoning for a reason.

03:20:07.040 --> 03:20:09.350
I want to be reasonable about it, but if you just go

03:20:09.350 --> 03:20:11.000
through and take everything out of

03:20:11.000 --> 03:20:12.000
it, then we just chuck --

03:20:12.000 --> 03:20:13.000
>> I don't want to do that either.

03:20:13.000 --> 03:20:14.840
I don't want to convey that sense to you.

03:20:14.840 --> 03:20:17.000
I think we can look at that.

03:20:17.000 --> 03:20:19.959
>> I think what you did ask originally and you've been

03:20:19.959 --> 03:20:21.799
saying consistently is hotels

03:20:21.799 --> 03:20:22.799
and the lodges.

03:20:22.799 --> 03:20:23.799
>> Yeah, bars and --

03:20:23.799 --> 03:20:24.799
>> Bars and lodges.

03:20:24.799 --> 03:20:25.799
>> Yeah.

03:20:25.799 --> 03:20:27.799
>> We're good with an overlay restricting those uses.

03:20:27.799 --> 03:20:28.799
>> Okay.

03:20:28.799 --> 03:20:29.799
>> Is that reasonable?

03:20:29.799 --> 03:20:32.780
>> That sounds good to me unless any of the citizens that

03:20:32.780 --> 03:20:34.360
are here that oppose this see

03:20:34.360 --> 03:20:35.360
anything else.

03:20:35.360 --> 03:20:37.670
If they have a problem with that, I'd appreciate they'd

03:20:37.670 --> 03:20:39.040
come back and speak or I could ask

03:20:39.040 --> 03:20:40.040
them to come back up.

03:20:40.040 --> 03:20:41.040
>> Okay.

03:20:41.040 --> 03:20:42.040
Pardon me?

03:20:42.040 --> 03:20:47.479
Yeah, I don't -- yeah, quick vehicle service, which is --

03:20:47.479 --> 03:20:49.760
>> It's restricted by an SEP anyway.

03:20:49.760 --> 03:20:50.760
>> Right, right.

03:20:50.760 --> 03:20:51.760
Okay.

03:20:51.760 --> 03:20:52.760
Okay.

03:20:52.760 --> 03:20:53.760
That's all I have then.

03:20:53.760 --> 03:20:54.760
Thank you, sir.

03:20:54.760 --> 03:20:55.760
>> Okay.

03:20:55.760 --> 03:20:56.760
>> Yep.

03:20:56.760 --> 03:20:57.760
>> Did I get that?

03:20:57.760 --> 03:20:58.760
>> Yep.

03:20:58.760 --> 03:21:02.190
I just want to get them updated to get some -- what you

03:21:02.190 --> 03:21:03.559
actually were considering, some

03:21:03.559 --> 03:21:05.600
facts.

03:21:05.600 --> 03:21:07.719
Commissioner Sanchez.

03:21:07.719 --> 03:21:11.479
I just wanted to mention that I think what you've talked

03:21:11.479 --> 03:21:13.440
about and I think what you've

03:21:13.440 --> 03:21:16.959
been very reasonable on this piece of property and what you

03:21:16.959 --> 03:21:18.360
want to build and what you've

03:21:18.360 --> 03:21:19.360
said.

03:21:19.360 --> 03:21:23.950
And as I was looking at some of these -- what do you call

03:21:23.950 --> 03:21:25.200
it?

03:21:25.200 --> 03:21:26.200
Opposition.

03:21:26.200 --> 03:21:29.280
And I think sometimes we look at them and say you have five

03:21:29.280 --> 03:21:31.040
oppositions or ten oppositions,

03:21:31.040 --> 03:21:34.110
but then you read them and it says we don't want -- you're

03:21:34.110 --> 03:21:35.399
taking our trees.

03:21:35.399 --> 03:21:38.549
We need to be reasonable on when we talk about what kind of

03:21:38.549 --> 03:21:40.600
opposition you're getting on

03:21:40.600 --> 03:21:42.920
these notices.

03:21:42.920 --> 03:21:46.840
Because I think you've done a diligent work that you've met

03:21:46.840 --> 03:21:48.159
with the people.

03:21:48.159 --> 03:21:54.079
You've changed the zoning to be more reasonable.

03:21:54.079 --> 03:21:57.159
And so I think we also have to be reasonable.

03:21:57.159 --> 03:22:00.590
And when we look at this, you know, so you're going to cut

03:22:00.590 --> 03:22:01.520
some trees.

03:22:01.520 --> 03:22:04.879
You know, we may not like it, but you know, you have a

03:22:04.879 --> 03:22:06.879
business and just cutting trees

03:22:06.879 --> 03:22:09.639
is not really affecting anybody.

03:22:09.639 --> 03:22:14.659
I guess I just don't want to impose so many restrictions on

03:22:14.659 --> 03:22:17.120
you that pretty soon people

03:22:17.120 --> 03:22:19.200
want to stop building.

03:22:19.200 --> 03:22:21.719
We have to be reasonable.

03:22:21.719 --> 03:22:24.909
And as people -- we have to understand that people are

03:22:24.909 --> 03:22:27.680
trying to make a living or building,

03:22:27.680 --> 03:22:31.280
making -- you know, making -- trying to develop their

03:22:31.280 --> 03:22:32.399
properties.

03:22:32.399 --> 03:22:36.590
And based on what the city restrictions, there's a lot of

03:22:36.590 --> 03:22:38.000
restrictions.

03:22:38.000 --> 03:22:42.350
It's not just, you know, if you're used to looking at

03:22:42.350 --> 03:22:45.159
people in a vacant lot and that's

03:22:45.159 --> 03:22:46.680
what you want to continue doing.

03:22:46.680 --> 03:22:50.870
It's hard -- we can't continue putting restrictions on you

03:22:50.870 --> 03:22:53.479
just because somebody wants to keep

03:22:53.479 --> 03:22:54.479
looking at trees.

03:22:54.479 --> 03:22:56.790
And I don't know if I'm coming from the right place, but

03:22:56.790 --> 03:22:59.040
that's the way I look at it.

03:22:59.040 --> 03:23:00.440
Okay.

03:23:00.440 --> 03:23:01.440
This is a public hearing.

03:23:01.440 --> 03:23:04.280
Is there anyone else who would like to speak on this item?

03:23:04.280 --> 03:23:06.729
Please come forward and give us your name, address at this

03:23:06.729 --> 03:23:07.159
time.

03:23:07.159 --> 03:23:09.760
My name is Chris Mulkey.

03:23:09.760 --> 03:23:11.559
I live at 6200 Panina.

03:23:11.559 --> 03:23:16.350
It's the northmost property touching the top right corner

03:23:16.350 --> 03:23:18.520
of the triangle there.

03:23:18.520 --> 03:23:21.000
My primary concern is not the use.

03:23:21.000 --> 03:23:24.090
I don't really have a problem with what could be built

03:23:24.090 --> 03:23:25.719
there with this zoning.

03:23:25.719 --> 03:23:31.840
My primary concern is how it will affect the floodplain.

03:23:31.840 --> 03:23:34.430
I know he's not going -- they are not going to build in the

03:23:34.430 --> 03:23:35.239
floodplain.

03:23:35.239 --> 03:23:40.889
However, if they do pave a large portion of that parking or

03:23:40.889 --> 03:23:43.479
for just a structure, the

03:23:43.479 --> 03:23:47.950
more that's covered, there's less saturation there and more

03:23:47.950 --> 03:23:50.120
runoff and that could affect

03:23:50.120 --> 03:23:52.879
myself and everyone else that backs up this property.

03:23:52.879 --> 03:23:55.479
That is my primary concern.

03:23:55.479 --> 03:23:58.719
Thank you for sharing your concern with us.

03:23:58.719 --> 03:23:59.719
This is a public hearing.

03:23:59.719 --> 03:24:01.840
Is there anyone else who would like to speak on this item?

03:24:01.840 --> 03:24:15.760
Please come forward at this time.

03:24:15.760 --> 03:24:17.079
Please give us your name and address.

03:24:17.079 --> 03:24:21.120
Hi, my name is Linda Torres and I live at 6512 Pine Hills.

03:24:21.120 --> 03:24:22.120
Thank you.

03:24:22.120 --> 03:24:24.799
I am concerned about the trees.

03:24:24.799 --> 03:24:32.840
We've lived there over 10 years and it's a green belt.

03:24:32.840 --> 03:24:37.430
And not only the pool, but there's also a children's

03:24:37.430 --> 03:24:40.440
playground right beside the pool.

03:24:40.440 --> 03:24:44.959
And I just -- all my neighbors were against it.

03:24:44.959 --> 03:24:51.829
I know that on the map it looks like that water area is a

03:24:51.829 --> 03:24:55.520
lake, but really it's kind

03:24:55.520 --> 03:24:58.239
of small and narrow.

03:24:58.239 --> 03:25:00.590
And that water gets really high because I live right next

03:25:00.590 --> 03:25:01.600
to the bridge and it gets

03:25:01.600 --> 03:25:02.600
very high.

03:25:02.600 --> 03:25:05.750
And like the last gentleman said, something else is put in

03:25:05.750 --> 03:25:07.280
there and it could just make

03:25:07.280 --> 03:25:11.040
it worse.

03:25:11.040 --> 03:25:13.239
I don't know what else to say.

03:25:13.239 --> 03:25:15.600
We don't really want any more concrete.

03:25:15.600 --> 03:25:18.190
And there are so many doctor's offices in Unicorn Lake

03:25:18.190 --> 03:25:19.559
right now that's going up.

03:25:19.559 --> 03:25:21.600
I don't think we need any more.

03:25:21.600 --> 03:25:25.600
But anyway, I've never done this before, but I'm kind of

03:25:25.600 --> 03:25:27.719
doing it for my neighbors.

03:25:27.719 --> 03:25:29.059
Thank you.

03:25:29.059 --> 03:25:33.719
Thank you for coming tonight and sharing your comments.

03:25:33.719 --> 03:25:34.920
This is a public hearing.

03:25:34.920 --> 03:25:35.920
It's still open.

03:25:35.920 --> 03:25:41.899
Anyone else who would like to come before us and speak,

03:25:41.899 --> 03:25:43.639
please do so.

03:25:43.639 --> 03:25:47.940
Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing and open the

03:25:47.940 --> 03:25:50.799
floor for discussion or a motion.

03:25:50.799 --> 03:25:51.799
Commissioner Beck.

03:25:51.799 --> 03:25:56.139
I move that we approve subject to conditions with an

03:25:56.139 --> 03:25:59.360
overlay that will allow us to control

03:25:59.360 --> 03:26:01.799
what is built there within reason.

03:26:01.799 --> 03:26:04.520
Define the overlay.

03:26:04.520 --> 03:26:07.200
Okay, help me here.

03:26:07.200 --> 03:26:08.200
Define the overlay.

03:26:08.200 --> 03:26:11.850
Well, I think you listed to help, there were three things

03:26:11.850 --> 03:26:13.719
that you asked the applicant

03:26:13.719 --> 03:26:17.520
to restrict the property from.

03:26:17.520 --> 03:26:18.520
Right.

03:26:18.520 --> 03:26:24.360
Bars, semi-public halls, clubs, lodges, and hotels.

03:26:24.360 --> 03:26:25.360
Okay.

03:26:25.360 --> 03:26:26.360
Okay.

03:26:26.360 --> 03:26:29.090
Everything else that I see on here, I don't see as

03:26:29.090 --> 03:26:30.040
disruptive.

03:26:30.040 --> 03:26:34.440
I live in an area where I'm right next to an NRMU itself

03:26:34.440 --> 03:26:36.719
and we've got a grocery store

03:26:36.719 --> 03:26:38.600
and a laundry.

03:26:38.600 --> 03:26:43.370
So I don't think with those kind of commercial enterprises,

03:26:43.370 --> 03:26:45.799
it will be that disruptive.

03:26:45.799 --> 03:26:47.909
I think as staff has pointed out, because we've got this

03:26:47.909 --> 03:26:49.319
major thoroughfare going through

03:26:49.319 --> 03:26:53.120
there, you're not going to get anything else built there.

03:26:53.120 --> 03:26:55.610
It's just not the suitable for more single family

03:26:55.610 --> 03:26:56.520
residential.

03:26:56.520 --> 03:27:00.440
I think legal clarification, just to make sure we get it

03:27:00.440 --> 03:27:02.120
clear on the record.

03:27:02.120 --> 03:27:03.120
Okay.

03:27:03.120 --> 03:27:04.120
Yeah.

03:27:04.120 --> 03:27:06.079
And of course, you meant no conditions.

03:27:06.079 --> 03:27:07.200
We're not doing conditional zoning.

03:27:07.200 --> 03:27:08.959
We are putting a mixed use overlay.

03:27:08.959 --> 03:27:09.959
Yes.

03:27:09.959 --> 03:27:13.120
We're switching it to NRMU with a mixed use overlay.

03:27:13.120 --> 03:27:15.709
And in the overlay, you're removing certain uses from the

03:27:15.709 --> 03:27:17.000
zoning classification.

03:27:17.000 --> 03:27:18.000
Right.

03:27:18.000 --> 03:27:20.000
And those uses are?

03:27:20.000 --> 03:27:21.000
Hotels.

03:27:21.000 --> 03:27:28.360
Semi-public halls, clubs, lodges, and bars.

03:27:28.360 --> 03:27:29.360
Okay.

03:27:29.360 --> 03:27:32.329
You want to remove hotels, but do you want to remove bed

03:27:32.329 --> 03:27:33.440
and breakfasts?

03:27:33.440 --> 03:27:34.440
Nope.

03:27:34.440 --> 03:27:35.440
Okay.

03:27:35.440 --> 03:27:37.239
And what about quick vehicle servicing?

03:27:37.239 --> 03:27:39.079
You had mentioned that.

03:27:39.079 --> 03:27:41.079
You had mentioned quick vehicle servicing.

03:27:41.079 --> 03:27:42.079
Yes.

03:27:42.079 --> 03:27:44.600
I would include that.

03:27:44.600 --> 03:27:45.600
Okay.

03:27:45.600 --> 03:27:46.600
So hotel.

03:27:46.600 --> 03:27:54.760
Well, this would prohibit you from even going forward on an

03:27:54.760 --> 03:27:55.799
SUP.

03:27:55.799 --> 03:27:56.799
Quick service, you're right.

03:27:56.799 --> 03:27:57.799
It is an SUP.

03:27:57.799 --> 03:27:59.799
So yeah, disregard that then.

03:27:59.799 --> 03:28:00.799
Okay.

03:28:00.799 --> 03:28:05.559
We just remove it from the ability for you to get an SUP.

03:28:05.559 --> 03:28:07.559
Yeah.

03:28:07.559 --> 03:28:11.200
Now, subtract the quick service.

03:28:11.200 --> 03:28:13.639
There's an SUP, and we can deal with that as it comes up.

03:28:13.639 --> 03:28:19.360
So hotels, semi-public halls, clubs, and lodges, and bars.

03:28:19.360 --> 03:28:20.360
And bars.

03:28:20.360 --> 03:28:21.360
Is that good?

03:28:21.360 --> 03:28:22.360
That's it.

03:28:22.360 --> 03:28:23.360
Okay.

03:28:23.360 --> 03:28:24.360
Okay.

03:28:24.360 --> 03:28:29.200
We'll restate it and make sure that you guys have an

03:28:29.200 --> 03:28:32.159
opportunity to respond to that.

03:28:32.159 --> 03:28:36.239
So just so the Chair understands, were there three items?

03:28:36.239 --> 03:28:37.239
Yes.

03:28:37.239 --> 03:28:38.239
Hotels?

03:28:38.239 --> 03:28:39.760
Well, there's -- Bars?

03:28:39.760 --> 03:28:45.129
One is a combination of three, semi-public halls, clubs,

03:28:45.129 --> 03:28:46.559
lodges.

03:28:46.559 --> 03:28:54.680
So you could say there's five, I guess, all told.

03:28:54.680 --> 03:28:59.680
Give staff to submit to make sure we get this correct.

03:28:59.680 --> 03:29:02.479
Okay.

03:29:02.479 --> 03:29:05.200
From our list, under the commercial land use, we've got

03:29:05.200 --> 03:29:05.760
hotels.

03:29:05.760 --> 03:29:10.719
That's permitted, that would be in the overlay as a no.

03:29:10.719 --> 03:29:12.719
I'm sorry, say it again, Richard.

03:29:12.719 --> 03:29:13.719
Hotels?

03:29:13.719 --> 03:29:14.719
Right.

03:29:14.719 --> 03:29:16.809
Going through the -- under the commercial land use category

03:29:16.809 --> 03:29:17.000
.

03:29:17.000 --> 03:29:18.000
Right.

03:29:18.000 --> 03:29:20.920
Hotels would go from P to N?

03:29:20.920 --> 03:29:21.920
Right.

03:29:21.920 --> 03:29:24.920
Rest -- I'm sorry.

03:29:24.920 --> 03:29:26.920
Bar would go from L11 --

03:29:26.920 --> 03:29:27.920
To N.

03:29:27.920 --> 03:29:28.920
To N.

03:29:28.920 --> 03:29:29.920
Right.

03:29:29.920 --> 03:29:32.440
It's an L11, is that an SUP?

03:29:32.440 --> 03:29:37.200
And what L11 does is it's a restriction of 100 seats and 4,

03:29:37.200 --> 03:29:38.360
000 square feet of restaurant

03:29:38.360 --> 03:29:39.360
area.

03:29:39.360 --> 03:29:40.360
So there's already a limitation.

03:29:40.360 --> 03:29:41.959
Well, yeah, not restaurant, just bar.

03:29:41.959 --> 03:29:42.959
Just bar.

03:29:42.959 --> 03:29:43.959
Right.

03:29:43.959 --> 03:29:45.440
And then the other was --

03:29:45.440 --> 03:29:48.920
Under institutional land uses on the next page.

03:29:48.920 --> 03:29:49.920
Institutional --

03:29:49.920 --> 03:29:50.920
You forgot the private club.

03:29:50.920 --> 03:29:53.920
About five down, semi-public halls.

03:29:53.920 --> 03:29:56.920
Okay, private club.

03:29:56.920 --> 03:29:58.479
Clubs and lodges.

03:29:58.479 --> 03:30:02.760
And then under institutional -- okay.

03:30:02.760 --> 03:30:03.760
Okay.

03:30:03.760 --> 03:30:04.760
That's it.

03:30:04.760 --> 03:30:05.760
So there's four.

03:30:05.760 --> 03:30:06.760
Okay.

03:30:06.760 --> 03:30:07.760
Just a minute.

03:30:07.760 --> 03:30:10.760
So we have five items in?

03:30:10.760 --> 03:30:11.760
Yes.

03:30:11.760 --> 03:30:12.760
Four.

03:30:12.760 --> 03:30:13.760
Four.

03:30:13.760 --> 03:30:14.760
Four?

03:30:14.760 --> 03:30:15.760
Okay.

03:30:15.760 --> 03:30:16.760
Four items.

03:30:16.760 --> 03:30:17.760
No.

03:30:17.760 --> 03:30:24.479
Wait, we've got the three and then the bar and the hotel,

03:30:24.479 --> 03:30:26.319
that's five.

03:30:26.319 --> 03:30:27.319
Bar, hotel, semi --

03:30:27.319 --> 03:30:28.680
We've got semi-public --

03:30:28.680 --> 03:30:30.239
Private clubs and private clubs.

03:30:30.239 --> 03:30:31.239
We count that as one.

03:30:31.239 --> 03:30:32.239
Okay.

03:30:32.239 --> 03:30:33.239
Then we have three.

03:30:33.239 --> 03:30:34.239
It's different, yeah.

03:30:34.239 --> 03:30:37.239
We've got that, hotels and bars.

03:30:37.239 --> 03:30:39.959
And private club.

03:30:39.959 --> 03:30:40.959
They're separate.

03:30:40.959 --> 03:30:43.959
There's a club and there's a private club.

03:30:43.959 --> 03:30:46.959
One's under commercial.

03:30:46.959 --> 03:30:47.959
I didn't mention that.

03:30:47.959 --> 03:30:48.959
Private club.

03:30:48.959 --> 03:30:55.959
Do you have a definition for what you meant?

03:30:55.959 --> 03:30:56.959
Pardon me?

03:30:56.959 --> 03:31:03.959
It's in our DIT and development code.

03:31:03.959 --> 03:31:04.959
Right.

03:31:04.959 --> 03:31:11.719
We've got permitted access here.

03:31:11.719 --> 03:31:18.329
These are things under NMRU that are permitted that we want

03:31:18.329 --> 03:31:20.319
to not permit.

03:31:20.319 --> 03:31:29.319
Okay.

03:31:29.319 --> 03:31:31.319
I don't have any other items I want to add.

03:31:31.319 --> 03:31:32.319
Are the ones okay?

03:31:32.319 --> 03:31:35.319
Are you saying there's some --

03:31:35.319 --> 03:31:36.319
Okay.

03:31:36.319 --> 03:31:41.469
Call on the applicant just to respond to the conditions and

03:31:41.469 --> 03:31:43.600
make sure they have -- if they

03:31:43.600 --> 03:31:45.909
have any concerns about those, we'll try to get this

03:31:45.909 --> 03:31:46.440
resolved.

03:31:46.440 --> 03:31:47.440
Sure.

03:31:47.440 --> 03:31:52.059
It feels kind of like we're creating a new zoning district

03:31:52.059 --> 03:31:53.680
here at the dais.

03:31:53.680 --> 03:31:56.079
I would like to have clarification.

03:31:56.079 --> 03:32:01.500
For example, my understanding from talking to Julie on semi

03:32:01.500 --> 03:32:04.639
-public halls and gatherings

03:32:04.639 --> 03:32:05.639
are nonprofit.

03:32:05.639 --> 03:32:09.829
It would be specific to nonprofit, meaning it couldn't be a

03:32:09.829 --> 03:32:12.959
for-profit gathering place.

03:32:12.959 --> 03:32:16.930
Also in the head, I think about we're pretty charitable

03:32:16.930 --> 03:32:19.479
people, the Children's Advocacy

03:32:19.479 --> 03:32:23.040
Center, they do counseling for families.

03:32:23.040 --> 03:32:24.040
That's nonprofit.

03:32:24.040 --> 03:32:27.469
All I'm trying to say here is we have straight zoning for a

03:32:27.469 --> 03:32:29.319
reason, and I can appreciate

03:32:29.319 --> 03:32:33.399
trying to eliminate everything that might upset somebody.

03:32:33.399 --> 03:32:37.350
My fear is that here, trying not to get delayed any further

03:32:37.350 --> 03:32:39.559
in this process, that we agree

03:32:39.559 --> 03:32:42.200
to something that I'm a little bit confused still about

03:32:42.200 --> 03:32:43.799
what's being asked, trying to

03:32:43.799 --> 03:32:48.780
get it done and then have an unintended consequence like we

03:32:48.780 --> 03:32:52.120
can't build a facility for counseling

03:32:52.120 --> 03:32:55.989
for families or children or gathering space or the Knights

03:32:55.989 --> 03:32:57.760
of Columbus or -- there's a

03:32:57.760 --> 03:33:00.940
million good organizations that sometimes need a building

03:33:00.940 --> 03:33:01.959
or a place to go.

03:33:01.959 --> 03:33:06.420
I'm a little nervous about these -- I heard hotels and bars

03:33:06.420 --> 03:33:06.760
.

03:33:06.760 --> 03:33:08.680
Well, I'm fine.

03:33:08.680 --> 03:33:09.680
No one will go there.

03:33:09.680 --> 03:33:10.680
We're not into bars.

03:33:10.680 --> 03:33:11.680
We wouldn't put one there.

03:33:11.680 --> 03:33:13.360
It wouldn't go there anyway.

03:33:13.360 --> 03:33:14.639
But now we're adding things.

03:33:14.639 --> 03:33:16.739
And so it just seemed like we kept adding to the list, and

03:33:16.739 --> 03:33:17.760
I don't want an unintended

03:33:17.760 --> 03:33:18.760
consequence.

03:33:18.760 --> 03:33:22.309
We want to be neighborly and we want to be helpful and amen

03:33:22.309 --> 03:33:24.280
able, but it feels like we're

03:33:24.280 --> 03:33:26.590
kind of designing on the fly and that -- I just don't want

03:33:26.590 --> 03:33:27.959
an unintended consequence.

03:33:27.959 --> 03:33:28.959
So --

03:33:28.959 --> 03:33:30.489
Greg, I think you've got a commissioner that will be

03:33:30.489 --> 03:33:31.280
reasonable with you.

03:33:31.280 --> 03:33:33.870
If it comes back in, we're looking at that, and it looks

03:33:33.870 --> 03:33:35.319
like it's going to be a routing

03:33:35.319 --> 03:33:36.319
organization.

03:33:36.319 --> 03:33:39.780
I'd probably say no, but if you're talking about VA,

03:33:39.780 --> 03:33:42.239
veteran four or something like that

03:33:42.239 --> 03:33:44.709
on a low-key level, I don't think there's going to be any

03:33:44.709 --> 03:33:45.760
objection on that.

03:33:45.760 --> 03:33:48.450
Larry, what I think you're asking as far as to eliminate

03:33:48.450 --> 03:33:50.040
that as a possible use, which

03:33:50.040 --> 03:33:51.520
means they couldn't come back.

03:33:51.520 --> 03:33:52.520
That's true.

03:33:52.520 --> 03:33:53.520
Right?

03:33:53.520 --> 03:33:54.600
And so there's a lot of limitations in here.

03:33:54.600 --> 03:33:57.649
If you look at the zoning ordinance, a lot of the things

03:33:57.649 --> 03:33:59.879
you mentioned, there's limitations

03:33:59.879 --> 03:34:01.280
that they have to point to.

03:34:01.280 --> 03:34:02.280
Let me suggest --

03:34:02.280 --> 03:34:03.719
And some of the things have SUPs.

03:34:03.719 --> 03:34:05.690
So they'd have to -- before something got built in, they'd

03:34:05.690 --> 03:34:06.440
have to come back.

03:34:06.440 --> 03:34:07.440
Well, let me suggest it then, right.

03:34:07.440 --> 03:34:10.399
I don't want to eliminate it completely, so what if we made

03:34:10.399 --> 03:34:13.520
that particular one with an

03:34:13.520 --> 03:34:14.520
SUP?

03:34:14.520 --> 03:34:17.709
Let's just keep it simple, and let's try to -- if you don't

03:34:17.709 --> 03:34:19.639
mind, have a friendly amendment.

03:34:19.639 --> 03:34:21.319
Let's take the hotels and the bars.

03:34:21.319 --> 03:34:22.319
Okay.

03:34:22.319 --> 03:34:24.670
And was there -- I think there was one other one that was a

03:34:24.670 --> 03:34:26.559
major concern for you, and

03:34:26.559 --> 03:34:27.559
there were three.

03:34:27.559 --> 03:34:30.159
Hotel, bar, is there anything else?

03:34:30.159 --> 03:34:34.000
No, it was the semi-public halls, clubs, and lodges.

03:34:34.000 --> 03:34:35.000
That was --

03:34:35.000 --> 03:34:37.000
It's a semi-public, the one that's a charitable?

03:34:37.000 --> 03:34:38.000
Yeah.

03:34:38.000 --> 03:34:39.000
Okay.

03:34:39.000 --> 03:34:40.000
Yeah.

03:34:40.000 --> 03:34:41.000
And I agree with Greg.

03:34:41.000 --> 03:34:44.190
There's probably -- we shouldn't shut that out completely,

03:34:44.190 --> 03:34:45.239
so I would suggest --

03:34:45.239 --> 03:34:46.239
Just do the two then?

03:34:46.239 --> 03:34:47.239
Hotel and bar?

03:34:47.239 --> 03:34:48.239
We can't make an SUP with the --

03:34:48.239 --> 03:34:49.239
Come on, Larry.

03:34:49.239 --> 03:34:50.239
Come on.

03:34:50.239 --> 03:34:51.239
Why?

03:34:51.239 --> 03:34:52.239
We can't.

03:34:52.239 --> 03:34:53.239
Why?

03:34:53.239 --> 03:34:57.059
I'm sorry, for the record, are you amenable to that

03:34:57.059 --> 03:34:58.920
friendly amendment?

03:34:58.920 --> 03:35:00.520
Just doing the hotels and the bars?

03:35:00.520 --> 03:35:01.520
Yes, I am.

03:35:01.520 --> 03:35:02.520
Okay.

03:35:02.520 --> 03:35:03.520
Okay.

03:35:03.520 --> 03:35:04.520
Do we have a motion?

03:35:04.520 --> 03:35:08.340
We have a motion on the floor to approve with the overlay

03:35:08.340 --> 03:35:10.520
restricting it from hotels and

03:35:10.520 --> 03:35:11.520
bars.

03:35:11.520 --> 03:35:14.520
I'm sorry, can I have -- do I have anything to speak?

03:35:14.520 --> 03:35:16.590
I'll just get the motion on the floor, and then we can

03:35:16.590 --> 03:35:17.959
certainly call if we're going

03:35:17.959 --> 03:35:21.840
to do some additional discussion.

03:35:21.840 --> 03:35:22.840
Commissioner Roselle.

03:35:22.840 --> 03:35:25.840
The chair is closed.

03:35:25.840 --> 03:35:26.840
Yeah.

03:35:26.840 --> 03:35:30.520
I just, I guess, want to be clear.

03:35:30.520 --> 03:35:35.780
The motion is to approve the rezoning with a mixed-use

03:35:35.780 --> 03:35:39.040
overlay changing hotels to not

03:35:39.040 --> 03:35:41.879
permitted and bars to not permitted.

03:35:41.879 --> 03:35:44.280
Is that what's on the table right now?

03:35:44.280 --> 03:35:46.360
Seems to be.

03:35:46.360 --> 03:35:49.879
And is the applicant okay with those two conditions?

03:35:49.879 --> 03:35:51.280
I appreciate the clarification.

03:35:51.280 --> 03:35:52.280
Okay.

03:35:52.280 --> 03:35:56.469
Do we have a first and a second for approval with the two

03:35:56.469 --> 03:35:58.799
conditions of an overlay?

03:35:58.799 --> 03:36:00.799
I never spoke the second.

03:36:00.799 --> 03:36:01.799
Huh?

03:36:01.799 --> 03:36:02.799
I never spoke the second.

03:36:02.799 --> 03:36:05.440
Well, I missed you as a seconder.

03:36:05.440 --> 03:36:08.239
I had Commissioner Roselle on there, so I apologize.

03:36:08.239 --> 03:36:09.239
Do we have a --

03:36:09.239 --> 03:36:10.239
I second.

03:36:10.239 --> 03:36:11.239
It's laid.

03:36:11.239 --> 03:36:14.399
It's laid, and we're going around the tree here.

03:36:14.399 --> 03:36:19.200
So we have a first and a second clarification.

03:36:19.200 --> 03:36:22.280
Is there going to be some other discussion or comments?

03:36:22.280 --> 03:36:23.879
And I think there was a question.

03:36:23.879 --> 03:36:26.959
I'd be happy to entertain your question, ma'am.

03:36:26.959 --> 03:36:28.959
Thank you.

03:36:28.959 --> 03:36:34.200
The question is, what do you constitute as a bar?

03:36:34.200 --> 03:36:36.909
If you have a restaurant that has a bar in it, does that

03:36:36.909 --> 03:36:38.360
mean that they can't -- that

03:36:38.360 --> 03:36:39.360
that's not allowed?

03:36:39.360 --> 03:36:42.200
Is that part of the overlay or --

03:36:42.200 --> 03:36:47.049
Well, a bar, I think our definition requires a certain

03:36:47.049 --> 03:36:50.280
percentage of receipts to come from

03:36:50.280 --> 03:36:51.280
alcohol.

03:36:51.280 --> 03:36:55.280
But under the L11, it includes that.

03:36:55.280 --> 03:36:58.100
L11 states limited to sit down -- again, this is the

03:36:58.100 --> 03:37:00.520
restriction on bar as well, L11, limited

03:37:00.520 --> 03:37:04.090
to sit down only and no drive-up service permitted, limited

03:37:04.090 --> 03:37:06.600
to no more than 100 seats and no more

03:37:06.600 --> 03:37:09.079
than 4,000 square feet of restaurant area.

03:37:09.079 --> 03:37:11.079
So it would be pretty small.

03:37:11.079 --> 03:37:14.440
Yeah, well, yeah, right.

03:37:14.440 --> 03:37:15.440
It would be, yeah.

03:37:15.440 --> 03:37:17.790
And the other question, I think that what we were

03:37:17.790 --> 03:37:19.959
discussing with the overlay was possibly

03:37:19.959 --> 03:37:24.170
business being doctor's office or whatever, like from 9 to

03:37:24.170 --> 03:37:26.520
5, whereas a restaurant would

03:37:26.520 --> 03:37:30.200
go into like 12, 1 o'clock, whatever.

03:37:30.200 --> 03:37:31.920
That's something to look at.

03:37:31.920 --> 03:37:32.920
That's my concern.

03:37:32.920 --> 03:37:33.920
Okay.

03:37:33.920 --> 03:37:38.110
I think -- does the restaurant have to come back before us

03:37:38.110 --> 03:37:39.200
for SUP or not?

03:37:39.200 --> 03:37:40.200
It does not.

03:37:40.200 --> 03:37:41.200
It's limited to 4,000 square feet.

03:37:41.200 --> 03:37:42.200
Okay.

03:37:42.200 --> 03:37:43.200
Matter of right.

03:37:43.200 --> 03:37:44.200
Okay.

03:37:44.200 --> 03:37:46.219
A drive-through, if it were to be a fast food with a drive-

03:37:46.219 --> 03:37:47.520
through, that would come to you

03:37:47.520 --> 03:37:48.520
as an SUP.

03:37:48.520 --> 03:37:49.520
Okay.

03:37:49.520 --> 03:37:52.709
We're trying to find hopefully a good balance here between

03:37:52.709 --> 03:37:53.639
all parties.

03:37:53.639 --> 03:37:55.680
So thank you for your comments.

03:37:55.680 --> 03:37:58.260
We have a first and a second.

03:37:58.260 --> 03:38:05.520
Any further discussion?

03:38:05.520 --> 03:38:07.319
Seeing none, I will call for a vote on the board.

03:38:07.319 --> 03:38:12.159
A vote yes is for approval.

03:38:12.159 --> 03:38:19.399
The motion is going to carry 7 to 0.

03:38:19.399 --> 03:38:22.719
Thank you and good luck with your project.

03:38:22.719 --> 03:38:29.479
We'll move us to item D. We'll open the public hearing for

03:38:29.479 --> 03:38:33.639
PDA 17-0006 and call on Julie

03:38:33.639 --> 03:38:37.920
Wyatt for presentation.

03:38:37.920 --> 03:38:41.520
Sorry.

03:38:41.520 --> 03:38:47.440
I was thinking.

03:38:47.440 --> 03:39:07.399
This might get interesting.

03:39:07.399 --> 03:39:21.040
I should quit touching it.

03:39:21.040 --> 03:39:30.879
That's generally the best course of action.

03:39:30.879 --> 03:39:31.879
All right.

03:39:31.879 --> 03:39:32.879
Here we go.

03:39:32.879 --> 03:39:33.879
All right.

03:39:33.879 --> 03:39:34.879
This is PDA 7-6, CARMACS.

03:39:34.879 --> 03:39:39.909
The request before you is to consider approval of a detail

03:39:39.909 --> 03:39:43.079
plan for Plan Development 12 to

03:39:43.079 --> 03:39:46.840
depict a newer used car sales lot on approximately seven

03:39:46.840 --> 03:39:49.200
acres out of a 34-acre tract.

03:39:49.200 --> 03:39:52.290
And just on this first slide, I want to point out a

03:39:52.290 --> 03:39:54.920
discussion we had in work session where

03:39:54.920 --> 03:40:00.020
this property, the 34-acre tract is this entire yellow

03:40:00.020 --> 03:40:01.559
outlined area.

03:40:01.559 --> 03:40:06.340
However, the development is only contemplated for an area,

03:40:06.340 --> 03:40:08.719
and this might even be a little

03:40:08.719 --> 03:40:09.719
large.

03:40:09.719 --> 03:40:11.280
It's just for this area right here.

03:40:11.280 --> 03:40:15.780
So at this point, development is not contemplated for this

03:40:15.780 --> 03:40:18.799
portion of the property or this portion

03:40:18.799 --> 03:40:19.799
of the property.

03:40:19.799 --> 03:40:20.799
It's just this site.

03:40:20.799 --> 03:40:22.520
So I wanted to make that clear.

03:40:22.520 --> 03:40:28.670
So the property is adjacent to I-35 and it is southeast of

03:40:28.670 --> 03:40:30.920
State School Road.

03:40:30.920 --> 03:40:35.510
For the Denton Plan 2030, it is in a regional mixed use

03:40:35.510 --> 03:40:36.120
area.

03:40:36.120 --> 03:40:38.590
These are areas that are destinations, commercial

03:40:38.590 --> 03:40:40.840
destinations, and they're often found along

03:40:40.840 --> 03:40:44.000
our I-35 corridors.

03:40:44.000 --> 03:40:47.639
The proposed use does meet the future land use designation.

03:40:47.639 --> 03:40:49.520
All right.

03:40:49.520 --> 03:40:50.520
Just a little bit of background.

03:40:50.520 --> 03:40:51.520
I'll go quick.

03:40:51.520 --> 03:40:54.840
This isn't a plan development.

03:40:54.840 --> 03:40:58.049
We currently in our Denton Development Code do not have

03:40:58.049 --> 03:40:59.959
plan developments as a possible

03:40:59.959 --> 03:41:04.149
use, but we do have some left over from our 1991 code, and

03:41:04.149 --> 03:41:05.600
this is one of them.

03:41:05.600 --> 03:41:08.020
Our plan developments in the City of Denton were two-step

03:41:08.020 --> 03:41:08.719
processes.

03:41:08.719 --> 03:41:11.659
First, the concept plan, which outlined the uses and the

03:41:11.659 --> 03:41:13.200
project boundaries and where

03:41:13.200 --> 03:41:15.879
those uses would go and design standards.

03:41:15.879 --> 03:41:21.399
And then detail plans were intended to get more information

03:41:21.399 --> 03:41:24.120
on where the buildings would

03:41:24.120 --> 03:41:27.000
go, where the parking areas would go, almost a site plan

03:41:27.000 --> 03:41:28.600
approval for these commercial

03:41:28.600 --> 03:41:29.600
developments.

03:41:29.600 --> 03:41:31.479
And that's what we're here for today.

03:41:31.479 --> 03:41:35.239
The use is permitted under the plan development.

03:41:35.239 --> 03:41:39.200
That was set out in the concept plan approved in 1987.

03:41:39.200 --> 03:41:43.790
The use under 1991 code was newer use car sales lot in open

03:41:43.790 --> 03:41:44.079
.

03:41:44.079 --> 03:41:45.079
So it is permitted.

03:41:45.079 --> 03:41:47.520
So the use really isn't in discussion.

03:41:47.520 --> 03:41:51.600
It's just how it's put together on the lot.

03:41:51.600 --> 03:41:54.649
The 1991 code outlines the criteria for approval, and what

03:41:54.649 --> 03:41:56.239
it does, it wants to make sure that

03:41:56.239 --> 03:42:00.430
the request conforms to the concept plan, that the

03:42:00.430 --> 03:42:03.319
arrangement of the buildings would

03:42:03.319 --> 03:42:06.090
not adversely affect the adjoining properties outside of

03:42:06.090 --> 03:42:07.920
the PD, that there would be adequate

03:42:07.920 --> 03:42:10.719
circulation for traffic, and that would be in substantial

03:42:10.719 --> 03:42:12.680
compliance with the city regulations.

03:42:12.680 --> 03:42:15.940
And staff has reviewed their proposal and has determined

03:42:15.940 --> 03:42:18.340
that it does meet these requirements.

03:42:18.340 --> 03:42:22.100
So just to go over those briefly, so first we looked at the

03:42:22.100 --> 03:42:23.760
concept plan, is the use

03:42:23.760 --> 03:42:25.799
permitted?

03:42:25.799 --> 03:42:28.680
And this is a map that was pulled from that PD.

03:42:28.680 --> 03:42:31.959
This is approximately the location of the subject property.

03:42:31.959 --> 03:42:33.280
There's not dimensions on this.

03:42:33.280 --> 03:42:36.520
So but this is the approximate location.

03:42:36.520 --> 03:42:38.959
And this was in commercial shopping.

03:42:38.959 --> 03:42:40.600
That was what the CS stood for.

03:42:40.600 --> 03:42:43.760
And that did permit this use.

03:42:43.760 --> 03:42:45.930
And then we looked at their site plan that they proposed

03:42:45.930 --> 03:42:47.239
along with their narrative.

03:42:47.239 --> 03:42:50.850
So they're proposing a 7,400 square foot building

03:42:50.850 --> 03:42:53.440
constructed with masonry, one driveway

03:42:53.440 --> 03:42:58.200
connection to I-35, the frontage road.

03:42:58.200 --> 03:43:02.719
The sales staging area would be located behind a 6 foot m

03:43:02.719 --> 03:43:04.000
asonry wall.

03:43:04.000 --> 03:43:06.440
The display for cars would be in this location.

03:43:06.440 --> 03:43:09.350
And then the customer employee parking would be in this

03:43:09.350 --> 03:43:10.120
location.

03:43:10.120 --> 03:43:13.559
They would have to meet all requirements regarding lighting

03:43:13.559 --> 03:43:14.360
and glare.

03:43:14.360 --> 03:43:17.790
And then they also talked in their narrative that they want

03:43:17.790 --> 03:43:19.520
to, that they would cite the

03:43:19.520 --> 03:43:24.379
public address speakers in such a way to minimize impacts

03:43:24.379 --> 03:43:26.799
to adjacent properties.

03:43:26.799 --> 03:43:32.379
The landscape plan depicts trees along I-35 as well as a

03:43:32.379 --> 03:43:33.680
hedgerow.

03:43:33.680 --> 03:43:37.129
They also are proposing trees planted throughout the site,

03:43:37.129 --> 03:43:39.040
particularly on the buffer or on

03:43:39.040 --> 03:43:42.040
the perimeter areas.

03:43:42.040 --> 03:43:46.379
Landscape islands to direct traffic appropriately and then

03:43:46.379 --> 03:43:49.079
with trees located in those areas.

03:43:49.079 --> 03:43:52.440
Public notification was sent out.

03:43:52.440 --> 03:43:57.200
We've received three in opposition and then two in favor.

03:43:57.200 --> 03:44:01.030
So based upon the request compatibility with the

03:44:01.030 --> 03:44:04.399
surrounding property, we feel it's consistent

03:44:04.399 --> 03:44:07.909
with the Denton Plan 2030 and it also meets criteria for

03:44:07.909 --> 03:44:09.719
approval for a detailed plan.

03:44:09.719 --> 03:44:12.719
And I'll stand for any questions.

03:44:12.719 --> 03:44:16.600
>> Any questions for Julie?

03:44:16.600 --> 03:44:21.120
Thank you, Julie.

03:44:21.120 --> 03:44:22.120
This is a public hearing.

03:44:22.120 --> 03:44:26.280
I do have a couple of cards wishing to speak.

03:44:26.280 --> 03:44:29.879
I have the first card from John Thatcher.

03:44:29.879 --> 03:44:33.940
If you'll give us your name and address and you'll have

03:44:33.940 --> 03:44:36.200
four minutes unless you're the

03:44:36.200 --> 03:44:37.200
applicant.

03:44:37.200 --> 03:44:38.200
>> Yes.

03:44:38.200 --> 03:44:42.879
John Thatcher, 800 East 18th, Denver, Colorado.

03:44:42.879 --> 03:44:45.840
I am with CenterPoint Integrated Solutions, a development

03:44:45.840 --> 03:44:47.760
consultant for CarMax representing

03:44:47.760 --> 03:44:48.760
them here today.

03:44:48.760 --> 03:44:49.760
>> Okay.

03:44:49.760 --> 03:44:50.760
We've got 10 minutes now.

03:44:50.760 --> 03:44:51.760
>> 10 minutes.

03:44:51.760 --> 03:44:52.760
I'm not going to use it.

03:44:52.760 --> 03:44:57.709
We do have a short presentation that I would like to run

03:44:57.709 --> 03:45:00.040
through very quickly.

03:45:00.040 --> 03:45:04.079
Uh-oh.

03:45:04.079 --> 03:45:07.079
Or not.

03:45:07.079 --> 03:45:09.079
Okay.

03:45:09.079 --> 03:45:20.719
So we had a few slides about CarMax as a company.

03:45:20.719 --> 03:45:23.719
I'll spare you those.

03:45:23.719 --> 03:45:26.030
In short, they're a great company, do a lot of good charity

03:45:26.030 --> 03:45:27.000
work and they're great to

03:45:27.000 --> 03:45:28.760
the employees.

03:45:28.760 --> 03:45:32.659
But onto their specific vision for this store, estimating $

03:45:32.659 --> 03:45:34.760
10 million investment.

03:45:34.760 --> 03:45:39.479
Their XF prototype is about 7,500 square feet.

03:45:39.479 --> 03:45:43.270
As staff noted, that's on seven acres developed out of the

03:45:43.270 --> 03:45:45.760
total 34, just the seven acres

03:45:45.760 --> 03:45:48.760
closest to the I-35 frontage up there.

03:45:48.760 --> 03:45:52.579
They'll have 225 vehicles available for inventory on the

03:45:52.579 --> 03:45:55.479
site, a potential employment of 27

03:45:55.479 --> 03:46:02.629
full-time associates with average pay of 45,000 plus

03:46:02.629 --> 03:46:03.920
benefits.

03:46:03.920 --> 03:46:08.420
My plan is what I really wanted you to see, and that's not

03:46:08.420 --> 03:46:09.440
loading.

03:46:09.440 --> 03:46:14.319
But she had it up during her presentation.

03:46:14.319 --> 03:46:18.680
I don't want to rehash what's there.

03:46:18.680 --> 03:46:23.139
We're trying to provide a nice landscaped lot, certain, you

03:46:23.139 --> 03:46:25.399
know, trees along the frontage

03:46:25.399 --> 03:46:30.459
and a majority of them in the customer employee lot.

03:46:30.459 --> 03:46:34.969
Here we have building elevations, as you can see, CarMax

03:46:34.969 --> 03:46:37.840
has, you know, a nice high quality

03:46:37.840 --> 03:46:44.360
building with preliminary earth-toned split-face CMU block.

03:46:44.360 --> 03:46:48.549
And we also have a few pictures of the store interior just

03:46:48.549 --> 03:46:51.159
to give you some real-life examples

03:46:51.159 --> 03:46:56.600
of the quality of the build that CarMax does.

03:46:56.600 --> 03:46:59.770
They're really high-class operation and we think they'd be

03:46:59.770 --> 03:47:01.440
a great addition to the community.

03:47:01.440 --> 03:47:03.120
So I know it's getting late.

03:47:03.120 --> 03:47:05.280
I'll keep it short.

03:47:05.280 --> 03:47:07.239
We are here to answer any questions you might have.

03:47:07.239 --> 03:47:10.489
I've got representatives from CarMax and our engineering

03:47:10.489 --> 03:47:11.399
firm as well.

03:47:11.399 --> 03:47:12.399
Do you have a question for you?

03:47:12.399 --> 03:47:13.399
Commissioner Smith.

03:47:13.399 --> 03:47:14.399
Thank you, Chair.

03:47:14.399 --> 03:47:17.940
The 34.4 acres, you guys own that entire tract and you're

03:47:17.940 --> 03:47:19.639
only developing the seven?

03:47:19.639 --> 03:47:22.319
They're under contract to purchase the entire 34 acres.

03:47:22.319 --> 03:47:23.319
They will purchase the 344.

03:47:23.319 --> 03:47:26.719
No plans whatsoever to develop the other 27 acres?

03:47:26.719 --> 03:47:30.909
Not at this time and I would imagine never, but I think if

03:47:30.909 --> 03:47:32.920
we did, we would have to.

03:47:32.920 --> 03:47:35.399
Yeah, there'd be a lot of crap to do too.

03:47:35.399 --> 03:47:38.399
Okay, just wanted to check.

03:47:38.399 --> 03:47:42.200
Any other questions?

03:47:42.200 --> 03:47:43.200
Commissioner Sullivan.

03:47:43.200 --> 03:47:47.159
Yes, thank you, Chair.

03:47:47.159 --> 03:47:50.520
Initially, I was glad to see you all coming because I hate

03:47:50.520 --> 03:47:52.120
having to drive to Plano or

03:47:52.120 --> 03:47:55.920
Grapevine to go to those CarMax places.

03:47:55.920 --> 03:47:59.680
But then when I saw the map and I saw how close you were

03:47:59.680 --> 03:48:01.840
getting to the houses to the

03:48:01.840 --> 03:48:05.040
south and west, I was disappointed.

03:48:05.040 --> 03:48:13.360
Then when I learned it was not the whole area but just that

03:48:13.360 --> 03:48:17.360
small area, thank you.

03:48:17.360 --> 03:48:18.360
Commissioner Beck.

03:48:18.360 --> 03:48:22.360
Thank you, Chair.

03:48:22.360 --> 03:48:26.360
You are running the business.

03:48:26.360 --> 03:48:29.360
We plan to see you in the future.

03:48:29.360 --> 03:48:30.360
Thank you.

03:48:30.360 --> 03:48:31.360
Put in real will.

03:48:31.360 --> 03:48:32.360
There it is on.

03:48:32.360 --> 03:48:33.360
Anyway, welcome.

03:48:33.360 --> 03:48:34.360
Thanks.

03:48:34.360 --> 03:48:35.360
Any other questions or comments for the applicant?

03:48:35.360 --> 03:48:36.360
Thank you, sir.

03:48:36.360 --> 03:48:37.360
Thank you.

03:48:37.360 --> 03:48:40.920
Do we have another card?

03:48:40.920 --> 03:48:46.920
Rick Wick, you in support?

03:48:46.920 --> 03:48:57.030
I'm Rick Wick, 4984 Classic Limited, DBA Classic Chrysler,

03:48:57.030 --> 03:49:01.200
Deep Dodge, Amasta and Chair and

03:49:01.200 --> 03:49:02.520
Commissioners.

03:49:02.520 --> 03:49:03.520
Thank you for your time.

03:49:03.520 --> 03:49:04.520
Steve, come see me.

03:49:04.520 --> 03:49:07.959
You don't have to drive to Plano.

03:49:07.959 --> 03:49:09.639
We'll keep the tax dollars here.

03:49:09.639 --> 03:49:13.280
We'll keep the tax dollars here.

03:49:13.280 --> 03:49:17.049
I'm not opposed but Julie, if you bring up the other slides

03:49:17.049 --> 03:49:18.920
you have, I have a question

03:49:18.920 --> 03:49:24.920
about property because it butts up against our property.

03:49:24.920 --> 03:49:28.280
Does that help?

03:49:28.280 --> 03:49:31.479
Yeah, that worked perfect.

03:49:31.479 --> 03:49:34.290
Now this, I understand this property, I understand this,

03:49:34.290 --> 03:49:36.440
what the building is and come on, CarMax,

03:49:36.440 --> 03:49:40.600
I'll take the competition all day long.

03:49:40.600 --> 03:49:45.209
But my question is all this property here, I know it's

03:49:45.209 --> 03:49:46.639
floodplain.

03:49:46.639 --> 03:49:50.159
I built the Toyota store there and we tried to buy this

03:49:50.159 --> 03:49:52.280
property and it's floodplain and

03:49:52.280 --> 03:49:53.760
you can't build on it.

03:49:53.760 --> 03:49:58.159
But my question is the current property owner has not

03:49:58.159 --> 03:50:00.200
maintained all this.

03:50:00.200 --> 03:50:01.200
It's a hazard.

03:50:01.200 --> 03:50:02.840
It's a fire hazard.

03:50:02.840 --> 03:50:04.559
It's big growth.

03:50:04.559 --> 03:50:08.559
I have to maintain all this frontage all the way down

03:50:08.559 --> 03:50:11.639
through here, even come down through

03:50:11.639 --> 03:50:15.000
this area here where my master building is.

03:50:15.000 --> 03:50:16.879
I'm to maintain it.

03:50:16.879 --> 03:50:21.200
My question is, and maybe this isn't the point, but what

03:50:21.200 --> 03:50:24.040
happens to this property as far as

03:50:24.040 --> 03:50:26.680
you're being maintained?

03:50:26.680 --> 03:50:30.959
It's high grass.

03:50:30.959 --> 03:50:32.360
It's overcome.

03:50:32.360 --> 03:50:35.899
I can't cut it because previous property owner won't let me

03:50:35.899 --> 03:50:37.360
into that property.

03:50:37.360 --> 03:50:39.399
But that's what our question is.

03:50:39.399 --> 03:50:42.690
What's getting done with all that waste area that's high

03:50:42.690 --> 03:50:43.280
grass?

03:50:43.280 --> 03:50:46.040
It goes all the way back off the property off of there.

03:50:46.040 --> 03:50:49.809
If I could step in and call on staff, I think if we can

03:50:49.809 --> 03:50:52.239
turn on the ESA area, because I'm

03:50:52.239 --> 03:50:55.379
going to guess with it being floodplain, it's also going to

03:50:55.379 --> 03:50:56.840
be ESA and then there's going

03:50:56.840 --> 03:51:00.840
to be limitations as to what can be done to clean it up.

03:51:00.840 --> 03:51:04.069
No, I'm just looking to maintain the area that can maintain

03:51:04.069 --> 03:51:04.319
.

03:51:04.319 --> 03:51:06.629
Not the area in the middle that's floodplain, but there's

03:51:06.629 --> 03:51:08.159
areas alongside that has overgrown

03:51:08.159 --> 03:51:11.159
grass that's accessible.

03:51:11.159 --> 03:51:32.600
There's no person that helped plan it.

03:51:32.600 --> 03:51:46.680
So, it looks like there is an ESA floodplain as well as a

03:51:46.680 --> 03:51:52.000
riparian buffer.

03:51:52.000 --> 03:51:55.760
So, Chapter 17 of the Denton Development Code outlines

03:51:55.760 --> 03:51:57.920
requirements as to what you can do

03:51:57.920 --> 03:52:00.239
in an environmentally sensitive area.

03:52:00.239 --> 03:52:04.520
We don't allow any impacts in a riparian buffer.

03:52:04.520 --> 03:52:11.120
So, I don't even think that includes mowing because it is

03:52:11.120 --> 03:52:12.600
habitat.

03:52:12.600 --> 03:52:17.120
So, I don't know.

03:52:17.120 --> 03:52:19.639
This area right here is riparian buffer.

03:52:19.639 --> 03:52:22.639
Yeah, it's just a small area.

03:52:22.639 --> 03:52:26.360
It's probably 300 feet off the highway.

03:52:26.360 --> 03:52:32.280
So, under current code, that could not be mowed.

03:52:32.280 --> 03:52:34.079
It would have to stay in its natural state.

03:52:34.079 --> 03:52:40.680
Highway Department just did it.

03:52:40.680 --> 03:52:43.680
They cleaned all that area up in front.

03:52:43.680 --> 03:52:47.799
So, I'm just curious.

03:52:47.799 --> 03:52:48.799
Thank you.

03:52:48.799 --> 03:52:49.799
That's all my comments.

03:52:49.799 --> 03:52:51.360
But you're in support of the project?

03:52:51.360 --> 03:52:52.360
Yes.

03:52:52.360 --> 03:52:53.360
Okay.

03:52:53.360 --> 03:52:54.360
Thank you, sir.

03:52:54.360 --> 03:52:57.639
I'm sorry I'm so late.

03:52:57.639 --> 03:52:58.879
This is a public hearing.

03:52:58.879 --> 03:53:02.000
Anyone else who would like to speak on this item?

03:53:02.000 --> 03:53:03.399
Please come forward at this time.

03:53:03.399 --> 03:53:10.549
I do have – I'm going to read all these in or just – pretty

03:53:10.549 --> 03:53:11.680
good.

03:53:11.680 --> 03:53:17.000
I have a number of – have James Jordan.

03:53:17.000 --> 03:53:18.399
He's opposed the request.

03:53:18.399 --> 03:53:21.600
He was concerned about the floodplain.

03:53:21.600 --> 03:53:25.639
John McCoy is opposed to the request.

03:53:25.639 --> 03:53:31.049
So, noise pollution and natural wildlife in there and flood

03:53:31.049 --> 03:53:31.959
plain.

03:53:31.959 --> 03:53:35.559
Curtis Fisher is opposed to the request.

03:53:35.559 --> 03:53:38.360
It's floodplain.

03:53:38.360 --> 03:53:40.840
Van Harris opposed to the request.

03:53:40.840 --> 03:53:42.719
There's no comment.

03:53:42.719 --> 03:53:46.520
Joyce Reed is opposed to request.

03:53:46.520 --> 03:53:49.639
She's got eight different items listed here.

03:53:49.639 --> 03:53:55.120
There's Rick Wick, already spoken.

03:53:55.120 --> 03:53:59.399
There is Scott Fly is in favor of request.

03:53:59.399 --> 03:54:02.600
Al McNatt in favor of request.

03:54:02.600 --> 03:54:05.959
And Rob Tharp in favor of request.

03:54:05.959 --> 03:54:10.149
Those are all the requests to speak comment cards and all

03:54:10.149 --> 03:54:12.000
the responses that we got to

03:54:12.000 --> 03:54:13.620
the notification.

03:54:13.620 --> 03:54:17.600
Is there anyone else who would like to speak on this item

03:54:17.600 --> 03:54:18.799
at this time?

03:54:18.799 --> 03:54:22.159
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing and open the

03:54:22.159 --> 03:54:24.280
floor for discussion or motion.

03:54:24.280 --> 03:54:25.280
Commissioner Smith.

03:54:25.280 --> 03:54:28.760
I motion to accept.

03:54:28.760 --> 03:54:29.760
Accept or approve?

03:54:29.760 --> 03:54:30.760
Accept.

03:54:30.760 --> 03:54:33.760
I accept to approve.

03:54:33.760 --> 03:54:34.879
Okay.

03:54:34.879 --> 03:54:35.879
Commissioner Sullivan.

03:54:35.879 --> 03:54:37.360
I second the motion.

03:54:37.360 --> 03:54:38.360
Okay.

03:54:38.360 --> 03:54:43.799
So, we have a motion on the floor to approve and a second.

03:54:43.799 --> 03:54:48.659
Any further discussion?

03:54:48.659 --> 03:54:57.879
Seeing none, we'll call for a vote on the board.

03:54:57.879 --> 03:54:59.680
Motion carries seven to zero.

03:54:59.680 --> 03:55:05.920
Congratulations and good luck with your project.

03:55:05.920 --> 03:55:11.180
We'll move us to item E. I'm going to open the public

03:55:11.180 --> 03:55:15.360
hearing for DCA 17-0009.

03:55:15.360 --> 03:55:27.479
We'll call on Roman for presentation.

03:55:27.479 --> 03:55:28.479
Thank you.

03:55:28.479 --> 03:55:29.479
I'm Roman McAllen.

03:55:29.479 --> 03:55:31.829
I'm the historic preservation officer for the City of Dent

03:55:31.829 --> 03:55:32.159
on.

03:55:32.159 --> 03:55:34.510
This is a request to hold a public hearing and consider

03:55:34.510 --> 03:55:36.000
making a recommendation to city

03:55:36.000 --> 03:55:40.840
council regarding repealing and replacing section 3576,

03:55:40.840 --> 03:55:43.600
repealing sections 3577 and

03:55:43.600 --> 03:55:57.229
3578, adding sections 35315, adding definitions to -- sorry

03:55:57.229 --> 03:55:57.559
, adding definitions to section

03:55:57.559 --> 03:56:03.309
35232 and making changes to section 3543 of the Denton

03:56:03.309 --> 03:56:05.079
Development Code.

03:56:05.079 --> 03:56:10.799
This process began in April of 2016, a little after I was

03:56:10.799 --> 03:56:12.120
hired here.

03:56:12.120 --> 03:56:14.190
By going to the -- I went to the landmark commission and

03:56:14.190 --> 03:56:15.360
the city council and briefed

03:56:15.360 --> 03:56:19.120
them on some conditions existing in our preservation ordin

03:56:19.120 --> 03:56:19.760
ances.

03:56:19.760 --> 03:56:23.120
And there was a recommendation to move forward with am

03:56:23.120 --> 03:56:24.799
ending the ordinances.

03:56:24.799 --> 03:56:29.319
In June of July of 2016, we held three public meetings in

03:56:29.319 --> 03:56:31.840
the historic districts along with

03:56:31.840 --> 03:56:35.489
an additional meeting here in this room where I presented

03:56:35.489 --> 03:56:37.479
in general the changes that we

03:56:37.479 --> 03:56:39.639
would be putting forth.

03:56:39.639 --> 03:56:43.829
And then we -- there was a large gap there where we spent

03:56:43.829 --> 03:56:46.159
some staff time and legal time

03:56:46.159 --> 03:56:49.409
working on going through these disordinates and really in

03:56:49.409 --> 03:56:51.760
the end, we're finding it much

03:56:51.760 --> 03:56:54.680
better than I intended to in the beginning.

03:56:54.680 --> 03:56:59.030
So that went to landmark commission and they recommended

03:56:59.030 --> 03:57:00.719
approval 8-0.

03:57:00.719 --> 03:57:04.209
The major changes are in general cleanup and efficiency

03:57:04.209 --> 03:57:05.079
oriented.

03:57:05.079 --> 03:57:07.520
The structure has changed.

03:57:07.520 --> 03:57:10.110
And then there were multiple references to certificates of

03:57:10.110 --> 03:57:11.040
appropriateness.

03:57:11.040 --> 03:57:14.319
There were in fact four or five ways that was described.

03:57:14.319 --> 03:57:17.120
Now there's one way that's described.

03:57:17.120 --> 03:57:20.569
Definitions were scattered throughout the ordinance in

03:57:20.569 --> 03:57:22.079
different sections.

03:57:22.079 --> 03:57:24.549
They're all in one section which is going to be -- which is

03:57:24.549 --> 03:57:26.040
part of the Denton Development

03:57:26.040 --> 03:57:28.000
Code that has definitions.

03:57:28.000 --> 03:57:30.459
The criteria and procedures for designation of historic

03:57:30.459 --> 03:57:31.959
landmarks, historic districts

03:57:31.959 --> 03:57:34.879
and conservation districts have been arranged sequentially

03:57:34.879 --> 03:57:37.479
and revised for clarity and consistency.

03:57:37.479 --> 03:57:40.760
And then all procedurally oriented subsections were

03:57:40.760 --> 03:57:43.520
combined and sequenced into one section.

03:57:43.520 --> 03:57:47.280
The substantive changes, those were more structural there,

03:57:47.280 --> 03:57:49.520
were that we will recognize the Belle

03:57:49.520 --> 03:57:53.559
Avenue Conservation District as an historic district.

03:57:53.559 --> 03:57:57.049
And then this slide, it says a more efficient process was

03:57:57.049 --> 03:57:59.280
introduced for local designation

03:57:59.280 --> 03:58:03.469
of properties that have been recognized by the state or by

03:58:03.469 --> 03:58:05.479
the National Park Service

03:58:05.479 --> 03:58:09.479
like our square downtown is a National Registered District.

03:58:09.479 --> 03:58:12.450
But really one step has been removed and that is since it

03:58:12.450 --> 03:58:14.159
is a national district in that

03:58:14.159 --> 03:58:18.319
case you wouldn't have to do the historical presentation.

03:58:18.319 --> 03:58:20.750
It's presumed that that district could be designated as a

03:58:20.750 --> 03:58:21.639
local district.

03:58:21.639 --> 03:58:24.680
You still would have to have the public input present that

03:58:24.680 --> 03:58:26.360
and then present an ordinance

03:58:26.360 --> 03:58:28.120
to city council.

03:58:28.120 --> 03:58:30.739
Language pertaining to certificates of appropriateness for

03:58:30.739 --> 03:58:32.520
painting, landscaping and fencing was

03:58:32.520 --> 03:58:36.290
amended per the input from the three different districts

03:58:36.290 --> 03:58:38.440
and that input varied just a little

03:58:38.440 --> 03:58:39.440
bit.

03:58:39.440 --> 03:58:43.829
A maintenance clause was amended where previously the Land

03:58:43.829 --> 03:58:46.440
mark Commission could take action

03:58:46.440 --> 03:58:51.030
if a historic landmark appeared to be being neglected and

03:58:51.030 --> 03:58:53.280
then they could take action

03:58:53.280 --> 03:58:56.280
and ask for the city to take action to preserve that

03:58:56.280 --> 03:58:58.600
building or to take action to prevent

03:58:58.600 --> 03:59:01.120
any further demolition or neglect of it.

03:59:01.120 --> 03:59:05.370
So the revision is that if there's a structure that could

03:59:05.370 --> 03:59:08.000
be designated a landmark then the

03:59:08.000 --> 03:59:11.040
Landmark Commission can make that recommendation.

03:59:11.040 --> 03:59:13.969
There are structures that we just recently demolished a

03:59:13.969 --> 03:59:15.760
structure here on West Oak where

03:59:15.760 --> 03:59:19.190
we could have used that clause to take action a little

03:59:19.190 --> 03:59:21.959
earlier and perhaps prevent the building

03:59:21.959 --> 03:59:24.020
from being so deteriorated.

03:59:24.020 --> 03:59:26.780
How that kind of looks graphically on your left here are

03:59:26.780 --> 03:59:28.280
all the sections as they are

03:59:28.280 --> 03:59:32.049
today and then as they would be proposed you notice that

03:59:32.049 --> 03:59:34.040
you start out with the general

03:59:34.040 --> 03:59:37.879
historic preservation description, its purpose, the

03:59:37.879 --> 03:59:40.000
penalties and enforcement.

03:59:40.000 --> 03:59:44.049
Then the procedural section is extracted and then that's

03:59:44.049 --> 03:59:46.319
how you designate landmarks, how

03:59:46.319 --> 03:59:52.809
you designate districts and how certificate of appropriaten

03:59:52.809 --> 03:59:55.760
ess process works and these

03:59:55.760 --> 03:59:57.159
other little categories.

03:59:57.159 --> 03:59:59.770
And again the maintenance and emission repairs is the one I

03:59:59.770 --> 04:00:00.680
was speaking of.

04:00:00.680 --> 04:00:02.520
And then you have the three districts.

04:00:02.520 --> 04:00:04.639
So it's a little easier to read.

04:00:04.639 --> 04:00:08.100
Minor changes, those definitions again have been moved out

04:00:08.100 --> 04:00:10.200
to this section 3523 to the

04:00:10.200 --> 04:00:14.110
Landmark Commission just chairman to chair and a little

04:00:14.110 --> 04:00:16.440
section about that the Landmark

04:00:16.440 --> 04:00:20.159
Commission doesn't actually make the preservation plan.

04:00:20.159 --> 04:00:23.200
The public input part of this, there were these three

04:00:23.200 --> 04:00:24.040
meetings.

04:00:24.040 --> 04:00:26.950
These are some boards that I presented to these districts

04:00:26.950 --> 04:00:28.559
and then they voted by putting

04:00:28.559 --> 04:00:31.639
dots on whether they wanted the Landmark Commission to have

04:00:31.639 --> 04:00:33.440
to approve painting and what have

04:00:33.440 --> 04:00:34.440
you.

04:00:34.440 --> 04:00:38.340
The general there at the bottom concerns varied by district

04:00:38.340 --> 04:00:41.040
but clarity and deference to administrative

04:00:41.040 --> 04:00:42.040
approvals.

04:00:42.040 --> 04:00:45.250
All of, everyone wanted more administrative approvals so we

04:00:45.250 --> 04:00:46.879
could streamline the process

04:00:46.879 --> 04:00:50.120
and only take the more substantive things to the Landmark

04:00:50.120 --> 04:00:51.079
Commission.

04:00:51.079 --> 04:00:54.190
I want to add along with the public input, I presented you

04:00:54.190 --> 04:00:55.799
all in the work session some

04:00:55.799 --> 04:00:57.879
results of the public notification.

04:00:57.879 --> 04:01:02.090
There were four letters in favor, three favorable emails

04:01:02.090 --> 04:01:04.600
and I have a letter that I was asked

04:01:04.600 --> 04:01:06.750
to read and to read to you by one of our Landmark

04:01:06.750 --> 04:01:09.079
Commissioners had to leave a little earlier

04:01:09.079 --> 04:01:10.079
today.

04:01:10.079 --> 04:01:13.629
It's not too long but it's signed by residents in the Belle

04:01:13.629 --> 04:01:14.959
Avenue district.

04:01:14.959 --> 04:01:17.430
It says to all members of the City of Denton Planning and Z

04:01:17.430 --> 04:01:19.100
oning Commission and City Council

04:01:19.100 --> 04:01:22.239
regarding the recent notice of Public Hearing Project

04:01:22.239 --> 04:01:25.239
number DCA 17-9, the following signatures

04:01:25.239 --> 04:01:28.329
of homeowners in the Belle Avenue Historic Conservation

04:01:28.329 --> 04:01:30.120
District reflect a vote in favor

04:01:30.120 --> 04:01:34.309
of the making of the required changes to Section 35-43 of

04:01:34.309 --> 04:01:36.520
the Denton Development Code that

04:01:36.520 --> 04:01:40.409
recommends our neighborhood becoming the Belle Avenue Hist

04:01:40.409 --> 04:01:41.600
oric District.

04:01:41.600 --> 04:01:44.670
After becoming the first historic conservation district in

04:01:44.670 --> 04:01:46.120
our city and the third in the

04:01:46.120 --> 04:01:49.079
state of Texas, we look forward to becoming the third

04:01:49.079 --> 04:01:50.920
historic district in Denton and

04:01:50.920 --> 04:01:53.510
further contributing to the city's neighborhood

04:01:53.510 --> 04:01:54.799
preservation efforts.

04:01:54.799 --> 04:02:01.229
This is signed by Stephen Amdoul of 2003-2007 North Belle,

04:02:01.229 --> 04:02:04.559
by Jeannie Naylor at 1912 North

04:02:04.559 --> 04:02:08.860
Belle, by Angie and Ernie Stripling at 1815 North Belle, by

04:02:08.860 --> 04:02:10.680
David and Jessica Pierce at

04:02:10.680 --> 04:02:15.819
1916 North Belle, and by Gary Hayden at 2106, 2019, and

04:02:15.819 --> 04:02:17.760
2021 North Belle.

04:02:17.760 --> 04:02:20.760
If we're here tonight, November the 8th, I would go forward

04:02:20.760 --> 04:02:22.520
hopefully to the City Council

04:02:22.520 --> 04:02:25.120
as soon as possible, possibly December the 12th, and we

04:02:25.120 --> 04:02:26.399
would of course publish these

04:02:26.399 --> 04:02:33.350
changes to our webpage and I'll answer any questions you

04:02:33.350 --> 04:02:34.920
may have.

04:02:34.920 --> 04:02:41.600
Any questions?

04:02:41.600 --> 04:02:47.510
Do we have an exhibit for what the Belle Avenue Historic

04:02:47.510 --> 04:02:50.399
District is going to be?

04:02:50.399 --> 04:02:59.319
If you go to the backup material, there's a map on it.

04:02:59.319 --> 04:03:04.850
So it's the same district that exists today and that page 6

04:03:04.850 --> 04:03:07.840
, when you get into the general

04:03:07.840 --> 04:03:11.629
section of page 6, be your first attachment I believe that

04:03:11.629 --> 04:03:15.159
refers to proposed changes.

04:03:15.159 --> 04:03:20.790
It says proposed general section code and then it's page 6

04:03:20.790 --> 04:03:22.920
and you'll see a map there

04:03:22.920 --> 04:03:27.280
of the Belle Avenue Conservation District.

04:03:27.280 --> 04:03:34.719
So between Sherman and University.

04:03:34.719 --> 04:03:37.450
That district has existed for a number of years and when it

04:03:37.450 --> 04:03:38.959
was created as a conservation

04:03:38.959 --> 04:03:42.190
district, I believe the reason it wasn't a historic

04:03:42.190 --> 04:03:44.280
district is there was not enough

04:03:44.280 --> 04:03:48.469
a percentage of homes that were older than 50 years at the

04:03:48.469 --> 04:03:50.079
time it was created.

04:03:50.079 --> 04:03:52.920
And now they're over that.

04:03:52.920 --> 04:03:55.530
One other thing with respect to conservation districts, at

04:03:55.530 --> 04:03:56.959
the time that one was created,

04:03:56.959 --> 04:03:59.290
the way the ordinance was written, historic districts and

04:03:59.290 --> 04:04:00.520
conservation districts were

04:04:00.520 --> 04:04:04.260
in fact treated the same, exactly the same way.

04:04:04.260 --> 04:04:07.389
So what we've done in the ordinance is said that now if you

04:04:07.389 --> 04:04:09.360
have a conservation district,

04:04:09.360 --> 04:04:13.329
only demolitions and new construction will go to the Land

04:04:13.329 --> 04:04:14.799
mark Commission.

04:04:14.799 --> 04:04:17.829
All other permits could be approved by the preservation

04:04:17.829 --> 04:04:19.559
officer using our standard.

04:04:19.559 --> 04:04:22.299
So that if somebody wanted to create a district, was a

04:04:22.299 --> 04:04:24.440
little nervous about the whole Landmark

04:04:24.440 --> 04:04:27.340
Commission and that thing, but they still feel like the

04:04:27.340 --> 04:04:28.959
layout of their neighborhood

04:04:28.959 --> 04:04:31.809
and the feel of that neighborhood is important to a group

04:04:31.809 --> 04:04:33.920
of people, only your new construction

04:04:33.920 --> 04:04:37.350
and your demolition would require more thought, you know,

04:04:37.350 --> 04:04:38.760
more people's input.

04:04:38.760 --> 04:04:40.799
Great.

04:04:40.799 --> 04:04:41.799
Thank you for answering the question.

04:04:41.799 --> 04:04:42.799
We've got one more.

04:04:42.799 --> 04:04:43.799
Commissioner Beck.

04:04:43.799 --> 04:04:44.799
Thank you, Chair.

04:04:44.799 --> 04:04:47.239
Roman, I confess I haven't read all this in detail.

04:04:47.239 --> 04:04:49.950
It's a lot, but I've known you since you've been here and I

04:04:49.950 --> 04:04:51.600
have full faith and confidence

04:04:51.600 --> 04:04:54.950
in your ability and I think you've done an excellent work

04:04:54.950 --> 04:04:56.360
here, so thank you.

04:04:56.360 --> 04:04:58.639
Jennifer helped me a lot with this, really tremendous.

04:04:58.639 --> 04:05:00.680
She put a lot of time into it.

04:05:00.680 --> 04:05:07.799
It's really as good as it is because of her talent.

04:05:07.799 --> 04:05:09.399
Thank you very much.

04:05:09.399 --> 04:05:13.780
Any other questions for Roman?

04:05:13.780 --> 04:05:14.780
Thank you, sir.

04:05:14.780 --> 04:05:16.600
We do have a couple of cards.

04:05:16.600 --> 04:05:18.639
This is a public hearing.

04:05:18.639 --> 04:05:23.120
I have Deb Conte.

04:05:23.120 --> 04:05:24.120
She's left.

04:05:24.120 --> 04:05:25.120
Okay.

04:05:25.120 --> 04:05:31.620
And then I have Karen Devaney, does not wish to speak, is

04:05:31.620 --> 04:05:33.360
in support.

04:05:33.360 --> 04:05:36.709
Is there anyone else who would like to come before us and

04:05:36.709 --> 04:05:38.600
speak on this item tonight?

04:05:38.600 --> 04:05:43.399
This is the one I came for.

04:05:43.399 --> 04:05:44.399
Okay.

04:05:44.399 --> 04:05:45.399
Please give us your name and address.

04:05:45.399 --> 04:05:49.799
My name is Katherine Linus and I live at 1120 North Locust

04:05:49.799 --> 04:05:50.719
in Denton.

04:05:50.719 --> 04:05:52.079
And I'm in favor of this.

04:05:52.079 --> 04:05:56.290
I think it's a good deal to be able to clarify what all is

04:05:56.290 --> 04:05:58.840
required and to bring it all into

04:05:58.840 --> 04:05:59.840
consensus.

04:05:59.840 --> 04:06:04.260
And yeah, it's a lot of material to read, but it's a lot

04:06:04.260 --> 04:06:06.559
better reading now than it

04:06:06.559 --> 04:06:08.000
used to be.

04:06:08.000 --> 04:06:09.799
So I'm in support of it.

04:06:09.799 --> 04:06:13.600
I do have one question, however, going through all of it.

04:06:13.600 --> 04:06:17.649
This is on the proposed historic landmark commission

04:06:17.649 --> 04:06:21.040
section as amended, because I do not recall

04:06:21.040 --> 04:06:23.559
offhand what the old language was.

04:06:23.559 --> 04:06:25.760
This is page one of that.

04:06:25.760 --> 04:06:32.190
It says 35.4.3, the historic landmark commission A. This is

04:06:32.190 --> 04:06:33.639
creating the commission and who

04:06:33.639 --> 04:06:35.200
all should be it.

04:06:35.200 --> 04:06:37.930
And they should include at least one representative from

04:06:37.930 --> 04:06:39.920
each of the following organizations.

04:06:39.920 --> 04:06:44.139
Number one is the county historical commission, and then if

04:06:44.139 --> 04:06:46.639
you go down to C, number three,

04:06:46.639 --> 04:06:50.139
these are the ex officio members, the chairperson of the

04:06:50.139 --> 04:06:52.360
county historical commission.

04:06:52.360 --> 04:06:56.159
I'm guessing that can't be the same person.

04:06:56.159 --> 04:06:57.159
Is that correct?

04:06:57.159 --> 04:06:58.959
That it cannot be the same person.

04:06:58.959 --> 04:07:01.729
And then my other question would be, does the county

04:07:01.729 --> 04:07:03.600
historical commission know that

04:07:03.600 --> 04:07:06.590
it's supposed to have two representatives on the historic

04:07:06.590 --> 04:07:07.959
landmark commission?

04:07:07.959 --> 04:07:08.959
So that's it.

04:07:08.959 --> 04:07:10.520
Thank you very much.

04:07:10.520 --> 04:07:11.520
Okay.

04:07:11.520 --> 04:07:13.239
Thank you for your comments.

04:07:13.239 --> 04:07:14.239
Sure.

04:07:14.239 --> 04:07:18.250
Rome, if you'd like to respond to that and just clarify

04:07:18.250 --> 04:07:19.399
that for us.

04:07:19.399 --> 04:07:24.200
Well, as far as having the two people, I'd have to kind of

04:07:24.200 --> 04:07:26.680
more carefully read this.

04:07:26.680 --> 04:07:31.719
Now, we don't have members of the county commission on our

04:07:31.719 --> 04:07:32.639
board.

04:07:32.639 --> 04:07:35.829
We have somebody from the county, the director of the

04:07:35.829 --> 04:07:38.079
county museum is Peggy Riddle, and

04:07:38.079 --> 04:07:39.639
she's been the chair.

04:07:39.639 --> 04:07:44.600
I think that- Director of office in history, Colton.

04:07:44.600 --> 04:07:46.719
Yes, that's right.

04:07:46.719 --> 04:07:49.280
So there's included.

04:07:49.280 --> 04:07:50.280
And then you have a phrase.

04:07:50.280 --> 04:07:52.729
So as far as there being, I really can't answer this a lot

04:07:52.729 --> 04:07:54.799
of clear, but real careful detail

04:07:54.799 --> 04:07:57.770
here, but it sounds to me like in addition, it says here,

04:07:57.770 --> 04:07:59.680
in addition to the nine members,

04:07:59.680 --> 04:08:02.719
these three shall sit as ex officio members.

04:08:02.719 --> 04:08:05.799
So we may need to recruit somebody from the county

04:08:05.799 --> 04:08:08.520
commission to serve on the commission.

04:08:08.520 --> 04:08:09.520
Yes.

04:08:09.520 --> 04:08:13.729
I just wanted to add that this is the existing code

04:08:13.729 --> 04:08:16.799
language that this is one of the items

04:08:16.799 --> 04:08:17.799
that we did keep.

04:08:17.799 --> 04:08:21.040
So it's not like we added new folks.

04:08:21.040 --> 04:08:24.840
So this is from when the board was established.

04:08:24.840 --> 04:08:27.600
So you're not the follow-up now.

04:08:27.600 --> 04:08:28.600
Okay.

04:08:28.600 --> 04:08:29.600
Again, it's ex officio.

04:08:29.600 --> 04:08:31.239
So it's not that they have a- They don't have a vote.

04:08:31.239 --> 04:08:41.799
They don't have a vote, so it's whether they sent it or not

04:08:41.799 --> 04:08:42.520
.

04:08:42.520 --> 04:08:45.120
We can work on recruiting on it.

04:08:45.120 --> 04:08:48.280
That's not a problem.

04:08:48.280 --> 04:08:49.280
Okay.

04:08:49.280 --> 04:08:53.520
Thank you for the clarification.

04:08:53.520 --> 04:08:59.920
Any other questions on this item?

04:08:59.920 --> 04:09:02.860
Seeing no one else wishing to speak, I'm going to close the

04:09:02.860 --> 04:09:04.319
public hearing and the floor

04:09:04.319 --> 04:09:07.920
would entertain a motion or additional discussion.

04:09:07.920 --> 04:09:09.280
Commissioner Ellis.

04:09:09.280 --> 04:09:10.280
Thank you, Chair.

04:09:10.280 --> 04:09:14.079
I will move to approve DCA 17.9.

04:09:14.079 --> 04:09:15.079
And Roman, thank you very much.

04:09:15.079 --> 04:09:17.799
I think you gave a great presentation and it sounds like

04:09:17.799 --> 04:09:19.399
you had a great community input

04:09:19.399 --> 04:09:20.399
on that.

04:09:20.399 --> 04:09:22.079
So thank you.

04:09:22.079 --> 04:09:23.579
Thank you.

04:09:23.579 --> 04:09:24.579
Commissioner Sullivan.

04:09:24.579 --> 04:09:25.579
Second that motion.

04:09:25.579 --> 04:09:26.579
Okay.

04:09:26.579 --> 04:09:29.040
We have a first and a second for approval.

04:09:29.040 --> 04:09:30.040
Commissioner Roselle.

04:09:30.040 --> 04:09:33.399
I was trying to motion or second this, but I was slow, so I

04:09:33.399 --> 04:09:34.760
wasn't able to talk.

04:09:34.760 --> 04:09:36.790
I just wanted to publicly thank Roman for all his work, too

04:09:36.790 --> 04:09:37.000
.

04:09:37.000 --> 04:09:40.280
And I see the photos of the dots and how they voted at all

04:09:40.280 --> 04:09:42.159
these public meetings over the

04:09:42.159 --> 04:09:44.000
past year and a half.

04:09:44.000 --> 04:09:45.280
He continues to do stellar work.

04:09:45.280 --> 04:09:46.280
I appreciate it, Roman.

04:09:46.280 --> 04:09:51.399
And so I'm happy to support this.

04:09:51.399 --> 04:09:56.520
Okay.

04:09:56.520 --> 04:09:58.959
We have a first and a second.

04:09:58.959 --> 04:10:00.360
Thank you again for all of your hard work.

04:10:00.360 --> 04:10:12.079
And we'll call for a vote on the board for approval.

04:10:12.079 --> 04:10:15.799
The motion carries 7-0.

04:10:15.799 --> 04:10:24.569
That will move us to our concluding items in our project

04:10:24.569 --> 04:10:27.680
matrix tonight.

04:10:27.680 --> 04:10:28.680
Commissioner Ellis.

04:10:28.680 --> 04:10:29.680
Thank you, Chair.

04:10:29.680 --> 04:10:30.680
Real quick.

04:10:30.680 --> 04:10:35.000
I'm just bringing this one up again because it's a concern

04:10:35.000 --> 04:10:35.879
of mine.

04:10:35.879 --> 04:10:41.159
We're supposed to have a workshop discussing what we can

04:10:41.159 --> 04:10:44.159
discuss in work session versus

04:10:44.159 --> 04:10:45.440
public meeting, that kind of a thing.

04:10:45.440 --> 04:10:47.040
I think I brought it up back in January.

04:10:47.040 --> 04:10:49.700
So just wanted to make sure it's not getting lost because I

04:10:49.700 --> 04:10:51.440
think it needs to -- the discussion

04:10:51.440 --> 04:10:52.440
needs to happen.

04:10:52.440 --> 04:10:57.799
The workshop discussion needs to happen.

04:10:57.799 --> 04:11:01.399
Just for you to understand, got clarification?

04:11:01.399 --> 04:11:02.399
I do.

04:11:02.399 --> 04:11:04.709
One thing I was going to add, I know some of these items

04:11:04.709 --> 04:11:05.920
have been lingering for some

04:11:05.920 --> 04:11:06.920
time.

04:11:06.920 --> 04:11:11.510
My intention is at the 1129 meeting is to have a memo sort

04:11:11.510 --> 04:11:13.559
of summarizing all of these

04:11:13.559 --> 04:11:14.559
items.

04:11:14.559 --> 04:11:17.159
I think some may have been addressed and just kind of have

04:11:17.159 --> 04:11:17.959
been left on.

04:11:17.959 --> 04:11:21.110
But I know there's new members, so I would rather just

04:11:21.110 --> 04:11:23.200
address all of them, provide sort

04:11:23.200 --> 04:11:26.260
of just a general write-up, and then if we need additional

04:11:26.260 --> 04:11:27.879
information, we can kind of

04:11:27.879 --> 04:11:28.879
go from there.

04:11:28.879 --> 04:11:30.399
But I just don't like to have things lingering.

04:11:30.399 --> 04:11:31.399
Okay.

04:11:31.399 --> 04:11:34.260
So you're going to essentially take all of them, clean them

04:11:34.260 --> 04:11:36.159
all up, and if for some reason

04:11:36.159 --> 04:11:39.450
someone's question isn't addressed, then it can be put back

04:11:39.450 --> 04:11:41.079
on Project Matrix for additional

04:11:41.079 --> 04:11:42.079
discussion?

04:11:42.079 --> 04:11:43.079
Correct.

04:11:43.079 --> 04:11:44.079
If that's okay with everyone.

04:11:44.079 --> 04:11:47.079
I think that sounds like a good idea.

04:11:47.079 --> 04:11:48.079
Okay.

04:11:48.079 --> 04:11:49.079
Anybody else?

04:11:49.079 --> 04:11:50.079
Chair.

04:11:50.079 --> 04:11:51.079
Commissioner Sullivan.

04:11:51.079 --> 04:11:55.200
What is our end of the year meeting schedule?

04:11:55.200 --> 04:11:58.799
Is that going to come out to us?

04:11:58.799 --> 04:12:01.149
I think the next meeting we have actually is pushed until

04:12:01.149 --> 04:12:02.680
after Thanksgiving, I believe,

04:12:02.680 --> 04:12:03.680
on the calendar.

04:12:03.680 --> 04:12:06.680
So the 22nd or the 29th?

04:12:06.680 --> 04:12:07.680
I think it's the 29th.

04:12:07.680 --> 04:12:10.829
And the second, and I guess the fifth week in December, is

04:12:10.829 --> 04:12:11.680
that right?

04:12:11.680 --> 04:12:14.280
I think there's only one, I think we only have one meeting

04:12:14.280 --> 04:12:15.680
in December, if I recall.

04:12:15.680 --> 04:12:16.680
Okay.

04:12:16.680 --> 04:12:17.680
Okay.

04:12:17.680 --> 04:12:18.680
Thank you.

04:12:18.680 --> 04:12:19.680
Go over your 2018 schedule.

04:12:19.680 --> 04:12:21.680
I was going to add.

04:12:21.680 --> 04:12:22.680
The 13th.

04:12:22.680 --> 04:12:23.680
Oh, okay.

04:12:23.680 --> 04:12:24.680
The 13th of December.

04:12:24.680 --> 04:12:25.680
The final meeting of the year?

04:12:25.680 --> 04:12:26.680
We don't know.

04:12:26.680 --> 04:12:27.680
No, we don't want to join on that.

04:12:27.680 --> 04:12:31.979
The final meeting, but you'll get an account of the

04:12:31.979 --> 04:12:34.680
November 29th meeting.

04:12:34.680 --> 04:12:35.680
Okay.

04:12:35.680 --> 04:12:36.680
Great.

04:12:36.680 --> 04:12:37.680
All right.

04:12:37.680 --> 04:12:38.680
Anybody else?

04:12:38.680 --> 04:12:39.680
Okay.

04:12:39.680 --> 04:12:46.680
With that, I'm just going to say it's 10 o'clock.

04:12:46.680 --> 04:12:49.040
We'll close our meeting tonight.

04:12:49.040 --> 04:12:49.639
Thank you, everyone.