WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.839 the 26th. It is 5.02 and this meeting has been dually 00:00:04.839 --> 00:00:06.639 posted and we have a quorum 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:10.220 present and I will call us to order at this time. Our first 00:00:10.220 --> 00:00:11.400 order of business 00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:14.349 will be to receive clarification of agenda items and I will 00:00:14.349 --> 00:00:15.439 turn it over to 00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:18.250 Manal for presentation of those items. Thank you Chair 00:00:18.250 --> 00:00:19.600 person Strange. On our 00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:22.980 consent agenda we have a preliminary plight and three final 00:00:22.980 --> 00:00:24.359 plots. If there 00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:27.940 any questions related to those plots I'd welcome the 00:00:27.940 --> 00:00:29.800 project managers to help 00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:32.770 address those and then of course one of the items on the 00:00:32.770 --> 00:00:33.960 agenda work session 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:38.909 item is a detailed presentation from John Davis, from our 00:00:38.909 --> 00:00:39.679 engineering team. 00:00:39.679 --> 00:00:44.200 So if there any questions to relate to the plot if not. 00:00:44.200 --> 00:00:45.240 Commissioner Rozelle. 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:51.240 The only question I have is on FP170006. It's not attached 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:52.840 to any road. Does that 00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:57.000 matter? I don't know the requirements for being adjacent to 00:00:57.000 --> 00:00:58.000 a road. Absolutely. 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:00.320 Hayley has some good insight into this one. This has been 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:03.039 an interesting one. 00:01:03.039 --> 00:01:07.000 Hayley just walk us through the entire subdivision plot. So 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:08.719 this final plot is 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:12.760 just for one lot. It's off of Teasley and Old Alton and you 00:01:12.760 --> 00:01:13.680 are correct it is 00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:18.159 landlocked by already platted properties so to provide 00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:18.879 access they 00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:21.579 have an access easement that comes off of Old Alton and 00:01:21.579 --> 00:01:22.760 goes down along the side 00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:25.879 of the property. There was a platted access easement for 00:01:25.879 --> 00:01:26.920 them to obtain access to 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:29.489 the property and it's all it's all fully developed. I 00:01:29.489 --> 00:01:30.640 believe this site is trying 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:33.040 to expand so that's what triggered them to come in and pl 00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:33.920 att but that has been 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:38.319 their means of access for years is my understanding. 00:01:38.319 --> 00:01:41.849 Thank you. Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. Is that 00:01:41.849 --> 00:01:44.319 paved or is it going to be an old gravel road? 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:50.359 I believe it's a paved drive. Thanks. Any other questions 00:01:50.359 --> 00:01:55.239 on this platt? Nope. 00:01:56.920 --> 00:02:07.189 Commissioner Elst, do you have a question on a platt? I do 00:02:07.189 --> 00:02:11.240 Chair. Thank you. Sorry. Mine has to do with the 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:14.330 the Gisling Industrial Park and it's just more for my 00:02:14.330 --> 00:02:15.919 clarification. So we've 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:19.340 got a preliminary platt for two lots but then a final platt 00:02:19.340 --> 00:02:20.560 for just one so I 00:02:20.560 --> 00:02:29.590 guess I just was wanting just the reasoning of that. The 00:02:29.590 --> 00:02:35.439 applicant is 00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:37.909 proposing to preliminary platt the whole site that's what 00:02:37.909 --> 00:02:38.800 they're required to do 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:41.610 according to the Texas Local Government Code but they're 00:02:41.610 --> 00:02:42.960 only final plattin one lot 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:50.680 of the two. Lot two will be final platt within two years of 00:02:50.680 --> 00:02:51.759 approval of 00:02:51.759 --> 00:02:53.870 the preliminary platt. Okay understood. Thank you for clar 00:02:53.870 --> 00:02:54.719 ifying it for me. I 00:02:54.719 --> 00:03:01.919 appreciate it. Commissioner Beck. Since Commissioner Elst 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:03.000 brought it up I was just 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:06.960 curious the ASA to the west of that Gisling Industrial Park 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:07.719 and the trees 00:03:07.719 --> 00:03:10.120 there do we know if they're going to be impacted by the 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:12.080 development? Yes there 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:15.960 will be they will have to meet the tree code ordinance the 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:17.000 tree code 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:20.370 regulations that we have. Okay so we're gonna lose a lot of 00:03:20.370 --> 00:03:22.759 those trees? That will 00:03:22.759 --> 00:03:25.189 depend upon the development but they haven't applied for 00:03:25.189 --> 00:03:26.120 development yet. 00:03:26.120 --> 00:03:36.639 All righty thanks. Any other questions on platt? 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:42.439 Superb I'd like to introduce John Davis who's going to give 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:43.520 us a presentation 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:46.610 and seek direction from you regarding the amendments to the 00:03:46.610 --> 00:03:47.439 City of Denton 00:03:47.439 --> 00:03:50.250 Water and Wastewater Criteria Manual and the Construction 00:03:50.250 --> 00:03:51.280 Criteria Manual and 00:03:51.280 --> 00:04:01.270 Associated Updates to the Standards. Thank you John. Thank 00:04:01.270 --> 00:04:03.680 You Manal. 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:07.969 Commissioners I'm John Davis with the engineering with the 00:04:07.969 --> 00:04:09.240 engineering I'm 00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:13.550 here to go over with you in great detail all hundred and 00:04:13.550 --> 00:04:15.199 twenty two pages of 00:04:15.199 --> 00:04:19.069 those changes and so forth I'll try to make it as brief as 00:04:19.069 --> 00:04:22.160 I can please. Let me 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:27.110 just the process for this and the reason that we're here at 00:04:27.110 --> 00:04:28.959 all. There are six 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:31.970 criteria manuals that are identified in the city's 00:04:31.970 --> 00:04:34.000 development code there. You 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:38.439 see them here you also see basically the size and the last 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:39.040 time they were 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:42.750 updated. We're in the process of updating all of these 00:04:42.750 --> 00:04:44.199 manuals and we've started 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:48.079 with of course the latest the oldest ones here first and we 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:49.600 bring to you the 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:52.920 amendments proposed amendments for the first two here. You 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:53.920 can see the others 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:58.430 that are quite lengthy but the transportation design and 00:04:58.430 --> 00:04:59.240 drainage 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:04.819 design criteria manuals were last updated in 2013. This is 00:05:04.819 --> 00:05:06.720 the process by 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:11.160 the city's development code there and Jennifer is here to 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:12.800 keep me on track and 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:17.980 correct me when I go off track. It basically is for us to 00:05:17.980 --> 00:05:18.959 prepare the 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:23.399 proposed amendments to present those amendments to you for 00:05:23.399 --> 00:05:24.680 suggestions and 00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:29.519 comments if you have any. We are then to post those 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:30.759 amendments on the city's 00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:36.120 website and at City Hall here. In addition to that we plan 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:38.000 to email out to all 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:42.139 development oriented people who are registered in the city 00:05:42.139 --> 00:05:43.439 's track it system 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:47.000 I notice that hey we're in the process of updating these 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:48.360 and here's the notice 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:51.850 and here's where you can find these documents there. We'll 00:05:51.850 --> 00:05:52.920 post the proposed 00:05:52.920 --> 00:05:58.199 amendments, we'll post the summary amendments there or 00:05:58.199 --> 00:05:58.920 summary of those 00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:03.160 amendments and we'll post the existing manuals there so 00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:05.160 that they can see what 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:08.769 proposed changes are proposed there. Yes ma'am. 00:06:08.769 --> 00:06:09.920 Commissioner Ellis. Thank you 00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:13.540 Chair. Track it system can you enlighten me on that? Who's 00:06:13.540 --> 00:06:14.639 in it? How do they get 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:21.319 in it? All developers or developer engineers who apply for 00:06:21.319 --> 00:06:21.839 a permit 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:25.720 development permit with the City of Denton are registered 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:26.800 in it with email 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:29.879 addresses. I believe that's correct. So just an automatic 00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:31.040 thing when they do. Okay. 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:34.680 We'll auto-generate through our software permitting and 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:35.920 plan review software 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:38.759 whomever we can notify that this is what's going on. 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:40.879 Excellent. It's a big list. We think 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:44.420 we think this is the best way to reach as many of the 00:06:44.420 --> 00:06:46.120 development community as 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:50.560 possible there and make sure we have direct contact with 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:53.079 them. After we post 00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:56.399 those we're required to post them for not less than 30 days 00:06:56.399 --> 00:06:56.920 for public 00:06:56.920 --> 00:07:00.750 comment. We will receive comments during that time, track 00:07:00.750 --> 00:07:02.319 those comments. We'll 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:06.180 also in addition to the ordinance requirements try to place 00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:07.759 on the website 00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:11.230 a summary of the comments we received and what action we've 00:07:11.230 --> 00:07:12.240 taken for those 00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:15.230 comments so that people can keep up with them as we go 00:07:15.230 --> 00:07:18.160 through the process there. 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:22.120 The ordinance calls for us to attempt to resolve all 00:07:22.120 --> 00:07:24.319 protests or requests that we 00:07:24.319 --> 00:07:28.459 request for review that we've received there. If we can do 00:07:28.459 --> 00:07:29.879 that at the end of 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:34.680 the 30 days then the amendments become final automatically. 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:35.639 I call it 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:41.829 administratively. If we cannot resolve those protests or 00:07:41.829 --> 00:07:42.839 requests for review 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:47.899 there then it would then go back to you or go back through 00:07:47.899 --> 00:07:49.519 the process as an 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:54.079 ordinance then using the rezoning process that you're 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:55.480 familiar with. It 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:59.540 would come back to you for a public hearing. You would make 00:07:59.540 --> 00:08:01.000 a recommendation 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:04.019 to the City Council. City Council would hold a public 00:08:04.019 --> 00:08:05.480 hearing and they would 00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:10.040 take final action on whatever's not resolved there. 00:08:10.040 --> 00:08:11.560 Commissioner Bec. Thank 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:15.800 you Chair. Thanks Mr. Davis for explaining that but I'm 00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:19.120 still reading that like we 00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:21.279 can't if we can't get it in his amendment then we'll get it 00:08:21.279 --> 00:08:21.519 as an 00:08:21.519 --> 00:08:25.480 ordinance. So it suggests that the issue isn't resolved but 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:26.319 we're gonna go ahead 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:31.819 with it anyway as an ordinance and I misunderstand that. If 00:08:31.819 --> 00:08:32.879 we're not if the 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:37.179 city still feels that a specific requirement that is being 00:08:37.179 --> 00:08:38.639 protested or 00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:44.429 not agreed to by the community and public at all. If we 00:08:44.429 --> 00:08:46.279 still feel that is 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:49.710 the way that that is a requirement that's really necessary 00:08:49.710 --> 00:08:50.600 to protect the 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:54.840 public health and welfare within the development community 00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:56.799 there then we 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:01.240 would go back to come back to you for public hearing. You 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:02.039 would hear our 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:06.289 argument. You would hear the public's argument against that 00:09:06.289 --> 00:09:07.840 . The reasoning for 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:11.029 that then you would make a recommendation to the City 00:09:11.029 --> 00:09:12.200 Council just 00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:16.200 like in a rezoning case you'll hear both sides of the 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:17.320 argument like a 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:20.919 recommendation. City Council would then hear both sides of 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:22.279 the argument again 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:27.019 and they would then take final action. Okay. So it's not an 00:09:27.019 --> 00:09:28.240 automatic it it 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:37.210 basically provides for a a hearing type process there so 00:09:37.210 --> 00:09:38.200 that the public can be 00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:42.690 heard of why they feel that that is not a acceptable change 00:09:42.690 --> 00:09:45.320 there. But is there a 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:49.100 chance then that this particular item that's being protest 00:09:49.100 --> 00:09:50.240 ed may not make it 00:09:50.240 --> 00:09:54.519 into the criteria manual? Yes sir. Okay. Okay. And not that 00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:56.799 I want to see that I just wanted to make that clear. 00:09:56.799 --> 00:10:02.360 All right. Thank you sir. You're welcome. That is the 00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:03.279 extent of my total 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:10.039 presentation there. I have passed out to you at your places 00:10:10.039 --> 00:10:12.080 there summaries of 00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:17.100 the proposed changes for the water and wastewater and for 00:10:17.100 --> 00:10:18.759 the construction 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:23.200 criteria manual there. I don't plan on going into any 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:24.720 detail with those. 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:30.740 Basically the proposed changes are updates to the manuals 00:10:30.740 --> 00:10:32.000 there that have 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:37.179 already been in practice through the years there because 00:10:37.179 --> 00:10:37.799 things have 00:10:37.799 --> 00:10:42.759 changed since 2002 when these were last updated. 00:10:42.759 --> 00:10:44.639 Commissioner Mack. Again what I 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:47.950 tended to see was we were just kind of looked like we were 00:10:47.950 --> 00:10:49.200 converting stuff to 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:54.000 the digital age more so taking that things were going to be 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:55.919 more online than 00:10:55.919 --> 00:11:01.240 hard copy stuff. That is a major part of it. That is not 00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:02.360 all of it. Over 00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:06.100 the years since 2002 when they were last updated a number 00:11:06.100 --> 00:11:07.200 of different pipe 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:10.629 materials have changed. For example the current manual 00:11:10.629 --> 00:11:12.919 calls for an allowable 00:11:12.919 --> 00:11:17.370 material is cast iron pipe. I'm not sure that they even 00:11:17.370 --> 00:11:18.799 make cast iron pipes 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:22.519 anymore. Today it's ductile iron pipe in providing for 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:24.159 things like that. I'm 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:28.909 sorry I don't recall the name of it but the predecessor to 00:11:28.909 --> 00:11:30.919 the Texas Conservation 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:37.360 and Environmental Quality Commission I guess this TCEQ that 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:38.799 's that old name is 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:47.090 still in the manual and TCEQ is not there. The TCEQ rules 00:11:47.090 --> 00:11:48.240 and administrative 00:11:48.240 --> 00:11:52.200 rules have been updated over the years and we refer in some 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:53.279 cases in the old 00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:59.320 manual to the old rule. This updates it and we've taken 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:00.559 quite a bit of time to 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:03.299 go back and cross reference and make sure that the 00:12:03.299 --> 00:12:05.919 references are correct now. 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:10.549 There are some old charts there that we have pulled in the 00:12:10.549 --> 00:12:12.600 past from the TCEQ 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:16.049 rules placed in there and they've been updated slightly 00:12:16.049 --> 00:12:17.360 there and we've placed 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:21.960 new charts in the proposed amendments to the manual. Is it 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:23.960 safe to say that for 00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:28.659 the future most piping is going to be a PVC material? It 00:12:28.659 --> 00:12:30.879 depends on what sizes and 00:12:30.879 --> 00:12:34.200 what type whether it's water or wastewater but smaller 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:35.120 sizes I think it 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:39.009 is. Okay so there might be some metal piping? Yes sir the 00:12:39.009 --> 00:12:40.720 larger pipes would be 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:44.679 ductile iron and even some freeze-dressed concrete pipes 00:12:44.679 --> 00:12:46.559 there for the very large 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:51.149 water transmission lines and even for the large wastewater 00:12:51.149 --> 00:12:52.879 lines there. Thank 00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:58.960 you. Sure. Commissioner Sullivan. I guess I'm a little 00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:00.919 concerned or I just don't 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:11.049 know enough about water but it looks like on 3.5C water 00:13:11.049 --> 00:13:11.759 pipe shall be a 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:15.860 minimum of now 8 inches in diameter used to be 6 inches in 00:13:15.860 --> 00:13:17.799 diameter. Yes sir. 00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:21.110 Again I don't know anything about the dynamics of water but 00:13:21.110 --> 00:13:21.799 anytime you 00:13:21.799 --> 00:13:25.509 increase diameter you're gonna decrease pressure. So how is 00:13:25.509 --> 00:13:27.000 this going to affect 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:32.500 water pressure at the hot you know at a person's faucet? 00:13:32.500 --> 00:13:34.120 That's... Hacks that will 00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:38.700 enlarge the larger pipe will decrease the pressure loss 00:13:38.700 --> 00:13:39.840 there so the pressure 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:44.139 should be greater at the location there. So that if you 00:13:44.139 --> 00:13:45.720 replace or is this for a 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:50.720 new construction or if you come in and have to replace 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:52.200 there's a water line 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:55.019 break you know and so now you gotta come in and replace 00:13:55.019 --> 00:13:57.480 that pipe so is that that 00:13:57.480 --> 00:14:00.919 situation or if it's new construction that's going in? It's 00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:02.639 actually excuse me 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:06.309 it's actually both if the city comes in and replaces a 00:14:06.309 --> 00:14:08.000 water line break and it's 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:11.720 just a short section and it's an existing six inch pipe 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:13.039 probably match it 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:16.190 up. If we're going to replace an entire street length of it 00:14:16.190 --> 00:14:17.600 or block or so of it 00:14:17.600 --> 00:14:21.320 it's most likely going to be the 8 inch pipe there. So if 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:23.000 you go from 6 inch to 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:28.190 8 inch how does that affect the pressure at the faucet? The 00:14:28.190 --> 00:14:29.440 pressure there 00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:33.740 should be depending on the length of it at all it actually 00:14:33.740 --> 00:14:34.919 theoretically should 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:39.159 be a bit higher. The smaller the pipe the greater the 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:41.879 pressure loss with the water 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:44.879 going through it there. That's why I said I don't 00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:46.480 understand anything about water 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:49.940 so but it seems to me that you'd be having since you have 00:14:49.940 --> 00:14:51.159 more water going 00:14:51.159 --> 00:14:57.759 through increase the diameter that that is in the end 00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:00.200 result would decrease 00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:03.519 pressure but what you're saying is actually would maintain 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:04.480 or even increase 00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:07.000 the pressure with the hydrant because you've got more fluid 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:07.960 going through a 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:13.000 bigger pipe. Yes sir and okay and the primary reason for 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:14.639 changing from minimum 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:18.820 of 6 inch to 8 inch is fire fluid. Because I know when I 00:15:18.820 --> 00:15:19.919 put my finger over 00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:24.700 the half of the hose it goes a lot faster than if I'm you 00:15:24.700 --> 00:15:25.080 know that the 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:30.139 whole hose is open and so that's why it doesn't make sense. 00:15:30.139 --> 00:15:31.720 Yes sir. I don't 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:36.480 understand water. Thank you very much appreciate it. 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:41.789 John do you have a summary perhaps or something on the 00:15:41.789 --> 00:15:44.039 screen that you can show 00:15:44.039 --> 00:15:47.350 some of the strike through so that the Commission gets a 00:15:47.350 --> 00:15:48.840 better feel on? Let's 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:56.240 see. If you have anything you can pull up. Superb. Yes as 00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:00.159 exhibits three and four to your 00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:06.080 agenda packages there we've provided the documents the 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:07.799 existing documents and the 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:12.389 proposed changes in track changes format. Red lion edition 00:16:12.389 --> 00:16:15.200 underline red underline 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:21.649 and red strike through there and let's see if I can find. 00:16:21.649 --> 00:16:24.559 Uh oh let's see I will 00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:28.279 have to reload here for that one. 00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:35.360 And certainly if you as you're I really didn't expect you 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:38.159 to look over every one 00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:43.110 of these between the time we posted tonight and all or this 00:16:43.110 --> 00:16:44.360 evening but if 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:49.080 you as you have time or later you flip through it you don't 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:50.600 if you are having 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:54.909 trouble going to sleep at night you could read this look at 00:16:54.909 --> 00:16:55.840 it if you see 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:58.649 something you have a question about or that you have a 00:16:58.649 --> 00:16:59.759 concern about or you 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:06.319 have any suggestions to improve it please we are here to. 00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:07.759 This is our work session. 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:12.269 This is your work session yes. So I assumed we were going 00:17:12.269 --> 00:17:16.160 to go through the attachments but if we're not. 00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:20.960 It would be wise to do that. Okay. 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:35.759 Commissioner Sullivan. 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:48.569 After I get through my password. Do we have your password 00:17:48.569 --> 00:17:51.759 so we can look at it? I'm kidding. Sure. 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:57.960 Might as well. Somewhere there's a flash drive that I used 00:17:57.960 --> 00:17:59.759 to have floating 00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:04.759 around that I lost in the parking lot here. With a lot of 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:08.259 information on it. 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:14.759 That's why I have a password on this one. I understand. 00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:31.759 You can see the number of different 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:48.579 different community design manuals we've accumulated and 00:18:48.579 --> 00:18:51.759 researched there to try to 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:57.759 prepare our updates here as well as our current practices. 00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:13.759 What I'm looking at is 3.3.1 fire hydrant spacings. Yes sir 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:13.759 . 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:20.759 What is the new because it just you know chapter 29 of the 00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:23.759 city code and appendix B blah blah blah. 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:27.910 So how does that change the distance from 600 feet in 00:19:27.910 --> 00:19:31.759 residential 300 in commercial industrial? 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:36.950 What's the new number? It's the same number. It's just in a 00:19:36.950 --> 00:19:39.759 different location in the manual now. 00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:43.599 It's back in it's under a section called fire hydrant 00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:45.759 locations and coverage. 00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:49.130 Gotcha. So instead of having a specified number you're just 00:19:49.130 --> 00:19:51.759 using that so in the event that that changes then 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:59.000 y'all can change with it as it goes. Yes sir. Gotcha. Thank 00:19:59.000 --> 00:19:59.759 you. 00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:09.420 Let's see is that it's a bit large there. Let's see if I 00:20:09.420 --> 00:20:10.759 can. 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:16.759 3.17 is fire hydrant. Commissioner Beck. Thank you chair. 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:35.839 Question for you. Yes sir. Way back there. On page nine of 00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:38.759 our handout water design guidelines 00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:45.759 3.1 general. You eliminated a couple of documents you 00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:46.759 struck through. 00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:52.069 Are they no longer one of them was the rules and 00:20:52.069 --> 00:20:54.759 regulations for public water systems established by the 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:54.759 Texas 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:58.309 Natural Resources Conservation Commission and it was 00:20:58.309 --> 00:21:00.759 eliminated for water and wastewater. 00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:06.259 This looked like a pretty good document. So I'm just 00:21:06.259 --> 00:21:08.759 curious are these outdated now? 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:13.200 Are the ones that you're keeping or putting in, do they 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:16.759 cover the areas of the ones you struck out? 00:21:16.759 --> 00:21:22.180 Yes sir we've struck out the ones that are outdated and for 00:21:22.180 --> 00:21:26.759 example the north central Texas 00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:29.769 before it simply said north central Texas standard 00:21:29.769 --> 00:21:33.759 specifications is actually the north central Texas council 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:34.759 governments. 00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:42.049 The NCD COG standard specifications there. The city of Dent 00:21:42.049 --> 00:21:46.759 on's water wastewater plan we've added and this entire 00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:51.390 reference section here for wastewater has the same for 00:21:51.390 --> 00:21:55.759 water we have updated there. I'm sorry this is for water. 00:21:55.759 --> 00:22:00.730 We've updated that you see here we've updated it to refer 00:22:00.730 --> 00:22:04.759 to TCEQ rules the Texas administrative code. 00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:09.940 This manual and the city standard details appendix of 00:22:09.940 --> 00:22:13.759 course when this was done in 2002 we didn't have the 00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:14.759 current fire code we're 00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:19.069 operating under which is the 2012 fire code. So the 00:22:19.069 --> 00:22:22.759 references throughout are now to the appropriate sections 00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:23.759 of the 2012 00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:28.220 fire code and this is typical of the amendments throughout 00:22:28.220 --> 00:22:35.750 the document there with additions being in red underlying 00:22:35.750 --> 00:22:41.759 and the deletions being in red strike through. 00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:46.420 The water main separation we have taken that from the 00:22:46.420 --> 00:22:51.690 current TCEQ administrative code which we're all required 00:22:51.690 --> 00:22:55.740 to do that we this city are required to maintain and follow 00:22:55.740 --> 00:22:55.759 . 00:22:55.759 --> 00:23:01.259 We've also referenced that here and under the wastewater 00:23:01.259 --> 00:23:06.099 section section four we actually reproduce those 00:23:06.099 --> 00:23:11.910 requirements from TCEQ's administrative rules there so that 00:23:11.910 --> 00:23:13.769 the applicant or the design engineer doesn't have to turn 00:23:13.769 --> 00:23:17.420 around and every time they're looking for something go back 00:23:17.420 --> 00:23:20.759 go to the web and find that. 00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:24.289 It's probably safe to say that the documents you eliminated 00:23:24.289 --> 00:23:27.410 you kept the applicable stuff in it in other forms and 00:23:27.410 --> 00:23:30.759 other documents. Yes sir. Okay. Okay. It's updated. 00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:35.059 What you will find also if you compare it page by page 00:23:35.059 --> 00:23:39.759 between this proposal amendment in the existing the old 00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:44.660 manual if you will the existing manual, you will find that 00:23:44.660 --> 00:23:49.160 I have not shown and track changes because it would get 00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:53.759 quite lengthy and quite cumbersome to try to even follow it 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:53.759 . 00:23:53.759 --> 00:24:00.000 If it referred to an office that's no longer in the city 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.339 that we don't call it that office anymore. We call it 00:24:03.339 --> 00:24:06.799 something else for example, engineering department is 00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:10.390 referred to in the current manual, there is no engineering 00:24:10.390 --> 00:24:13.789 department anymore it's capital improvement engineering 00:24:13.789 --> 00:24:15.759 division. 00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:32.759 So those changes have been made. And they're not shown as 00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:32.759 track changes there so that cleans up better and you can 00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:32.759 follow the changes and see the real changes that have 00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:32.759 better significant changes if you will. 00:24:32.759 --> 00:24:35.759 Moving on to page 28. 00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:39.759 We talked about most of the pipes being PVC. Yes sir. 00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:45.759 Page 2802. 00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:49.200 It talks about wastewater collection system pipe that 00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:52.720 crosses above a water supply pipe must be constructed at 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:56.539 least 150 psi pressure class corrosion resistant non 00:24:56.539 --> 00:24:57.759 brittle pipe. 00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:13.789 PVC is really takes a long time for it to do that. It has 00:25:13.789 --> 00:25:14.099 like a 50 year life, but is that would that be an area 00:25:14.099 --> 00:25:14.390 where you come in with metal, then if you've got to use a 00:25:14.390 --> 00:25:16.990 non brittle. No sir, PVC is a pliable type pipe, if it's 00:25:16.990 --> 00:25:20.279 underground, if it's above ground, then it does become 00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:21.759 brittle there. 00:25:21.759 --> 00:25:28.319 We used to call it ultraviolet degradation. Right, right. 00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:30.089 So see it becomes brittle and crack when exposed to ultra 00:25:30.089 --> 00:25:32.099 violet light exposure, cold temperatures, age and chemical 00:25:32.099 --> 00:25:32.759 exposure. 00:25:32.759 --> 00:25:37.259 So, age would be one thing I believe it's set under the 00:25:37.259 --> 00:25:40.759 right conditions, it has a life duration of about 50 years, 00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:43.759 which is a good long time. 00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:46.759 But it can become brittle. 00:25:46.759 --> 00:25:53.529 Yes sir. It's generally referring to other pipes cast iron 00:25:53.529 --> 00:25:55.759 pipe and some other types of pipes. 00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:57.759 The comment about non brittle. 00:25:57.759 --> 00:25:59.759 Yes sir. 00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:03.759 The cast iron pipes are brittle. 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:07.460 There are some old one forgotten that the asphalt impregn 00:26:07.460 --> 00:26:11.170 ated pipes were brittle when they were placed in there, I 00:26:11.170 --> 00:26:14.730 wouldn't no longer even use those. They're no longer 00:26:14.730 --> 00:26:18.279 allowed in the under the plumbing code for services and 00:26:18.279 --> 00:26:22.759 that's the way they were used in the 00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:25.759 john 60s and early 70s. 00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:28.269 Can we start just kind of at the beginning and I think if 00:26:28.269 --> 00:26:30.839 we've got questions as we go through if we get to the page 00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:33.430 and you've got a question on we can go that but everybody 00:26:33.430 --> 00:26:36.390 gets an opportunity to just kind of go start to finish and 00:26:36.390 --> 00:26:39.509 those that are watching and everything else can keep up 00:26:39.509 --> 00:26:41.759 with us. 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:47.759 You see that there are lines on the right hand side here. 00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:57.779 It was my rat seems to be acting up here. So that would be 00:26:57.779 --> 00:27:05.730 indicative of some editorial changes or formatting changes 00:27:05.730 --> 00:27:06.759 here in it. 00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:10.839 The preliminary design section that's in the old section 00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:15.000 there is really applicable only to city projects, these 00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:19.240 manuals are applicable both city projects and development 00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:20.759 projects there. 00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:27.759 So we've come in and indicated that in this section here. 00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:33.329 As you so aptly pointed out earlier, we've indicated 00:27:33.329 --> 00:27:38.759 electronic folders and filing systems and all here. 00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:41.759 Internal coordination, Commissioner Ellis. 00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:42.759 Sorry chair. 00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:45.680 So, I know you're saying you're clarifying applicable only 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:48.400 to city projects. Is that how it always was and we just 00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:49.759 need to put that in there. 00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:50.759 Yes. 00:27:50.759 --> 00:27:51.759 Okay. 00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:56.339 So, I do in a later section, indicate to development 00:27:56.339 --> 00:28:01.359 engineers that they might also want to review this section 00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:06.180 in order to determine some of the agencies they probably 00:28:06.180 --> 00:28:11.759 should coordinate with, like some of the external utilities 00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:14.759 on their projects. 00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:18.910 Here you'll see a typical engineering capital projects 00:28:18.910 --> 00:28:23.130 administrator, there is no such position anymore is now 00:28:23.130 --> 00:28:25.759 director of capital projects. 00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:32.750 Again, name changes some additional positions in their 00:28:32.750 --> 00:28:39.609 engineering development review that reviews these and 00:28:39.609 --> 00:28:46.579 suggested of what should be done to coordinate with those 00:28:46.579 --> 00:28:48.759 people there. 00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:56.759 This was an old form that's in the existing manual. 00:28:56.759 --> 00:29:02.299 And here was what we indicate that the email communication 00:29:02.299 --> 00:29:05.759 should include record research. 00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:10.759 We have GIS maps now. We didn't have them at 2002. 00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:14.390 We suggest some surface utility engineering firms be 00:29:14.390 --> 00:29:18.259 considered for those projects those are the ones that you 00:29:18.259 --> 00:29:22.299 see out in the roadway, digging, we call them potholes jet 00:29:22.299 --> 00:29:25.799 ting small holes into the pavement or ground there to 00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:31.759 determine exact locations and depths of utilities there. 00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:35.759 And then we've updated the utility companies here. 00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:36.759 Commissioner Ellis. 00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:37.759 Yes ma'am. 00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:38.759 Thank you, Chair. 00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:41.319 We have a charter now called spectrum. That was my question 00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:41.759 on that one. 00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:44.759 I don't know that there is a charter anymore. 00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:46.759 I think it's called spectrum. 00:29:46.759 --> 00:29:47.759 Okay, good. 00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:49.759 Thank you. 00:29:49.759 --> 00:30:14.759 Shows you up to date I am. 00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:16.759 Commissioner was oh. 00:30:16.759 --> 00:30:20.069 Is there any flexibility to the utility companies to be 00:30:20.069 --> 00:30:24.289 contacted I mean it seems like there could be the addition 00:30:24.289 --> 00:30:25.759 of subtraction. 00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:26.759 Fluidly. 00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:33.140 How does that work. If, if charter changes his name, or we 00:30:33.140 --> 00:30:37.720 get another cable provider besides frontier communications, 00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:39.759 does this have to be amended. 00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:43.829 Just trying to list the ones that are current there. The 00:30:43.829 --> 00:30:48.329 last listing here you see is Texas 811, which is the call 00:30:48.329 --> 00:30:52.579 before you dig. So that's going to if there are other 00:30:52.579 --> 00:30:57.460 utilities, maybe there are private utilities in that area, 00:30:57.460 --> 00:31:00.759 then hopefully that's going to catch those. 00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:04.849 And we failed to advise you earlier, our intent in the 00:31:04.849 --> 00:31:09.490 future. Once we update these manuals is to update them once 00:31:09.490 --> 00:31:13.750 a year annually in the same sequence that we're updating 00:31:13.750 --> 00:31:17.539 them now so that they don't become so obsolete with 00:31:17.539 --> 00:31:24.759 outdated company names as you pointed out. 00:31:24.759 --> 00:31:27.500 John on that will go through the same press process 00:31:27.500 --> 00:31:30.799 annually so you'll present, just like you're doing now send 00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:33.390 it out for public comment if there isn't any it's 00:31:33.390 --> 00:31:36.759 automatically adopted if there is work through those. 00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:42.140 Yes, sir. That'd be the problem. That's the, that's the 00:31:42.140 --> 00:31:46.900 only way currently that the manuals can be updated or 00:31:46.900 --> 00:31:47.759 changed. 00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:52.390 And then it gets into the specifics of the water design 00:31:52.390 --> 00:31:56.920 guidelines that we looked at earlier, updating the 00:31:56.920 --> 00:32:03.319 references for it, updating the water separation from the 00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:04.759 water mains. 00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:07.759 Commissioner Beck. I have a question here. 00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:12.430 To 3.3, it's on page 10 of our supplement on B, says every 00:32:12.430 --> 00:32:16.410 new water system should include two or more connections to 00:32:16.410 --> 00:32:20.240 the existing city water system and feasible to ensure an 00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:24.390 adequate and reliable water supply they've been water main 00:32:24.390 --> 00:32:29.759 break or routine system maintenance. 00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:38.759 Can you explain how that works? Yes, sir. 00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:41.759 Think of. 00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:46.759 Let's take, for example, you're familiar with the. 00:32:46.759 --> 00:32:51.490 It's not razor ranch but the one on the north side of us 3 00:32:51.490 --> 00:32:56.900 80 the commercial development there marketplace, where 00:32:56.900 --> 00:33:00.759 Walmart and Sam's Club and everything is. 00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:10.529 Listen, if they came in and just tied into the water system 00:33:10.529 --> 00:33:19.759 on the westerly side of that long development there. 00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:27.559 Development to the city's main or to the city's main along 00:33:27.559 --> 00:33:31.130 us 380 there. There'd be without fire flow protection and 00:33:31.130 --> 00:33:31.609 without potable water. So they put one further down the 00:33:31.609 --> 00:33:36.349 line. If you, if they were to connect twice at least one on 00:33:36.349 --> 00:33:39.759 the westerly side and one on the eastern side, perhaps 00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:43.759 along. 00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:49.759 Bonnie Bray Road there, then they could have redundancy. 00:33:49.759 --> 00:33:54.059 They would also have more a better fire flow pressure there 00:33:54.059 --> 00:33:58.759 through it and provide pressure for the development there. 00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:04.259 They also have a better, more reliable fire flow there for 00:34:04.259 --> 00:34:09.760 it in case one went down, or if they had something, a fire. 00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:13.989 They don't, but if they did, if they were pumping only from 00:34:13.989 --> 00:34:18.050 one supply pipe into it, they could pull that down pretty 00:34:18.050 --> 00:34:22.030 fast. If they're pumping from to supply points into it, and 00:34:22.030 --> 00:34:25.760 they've got much better pressure and more water volume. 00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:29.070 So would this be something that is more have to be used on 00:34:29.070 --> 00:34:32.250 commercial developments or is this something we'd see in 00:34:32.250 --> 00:34:35.780 residential areas commercial and larger residential areas. 00:34:35.780 --> 00:34:37.760 Yes, sir. 00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:42.420 You might have an apartment complex with several apartments 00:34:42.420 --> 00:34:46.730 in it and all these story buildings there that might need 00:34:46.730 --> 00:34:49.760 to have to water connections there. 00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:50.760 Thank you. 00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:54.760 Sure. 00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:59.039 We also over the years have standardized the water service 00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:03.070 sizes for the different sizes of water meters and those 00:35:03.070 --> 00:35:07.760 water meters we've inserted that portion in this area here. 00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:12.309 We've been using that for quite some time. It's just not in 00:35:12.309 --> 00:35:13.760 the manual. 00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:18.840 This way, new development engineers coming in from out of 00:35:18.840 --> 00:35:23.840 the area can see fairly quickly what the requirements are 00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:24.760 there. 00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:38.650 And here was the change from the six inch lowest size 00:35:38.650 --> 00:35:47.760 standard pipe to eight inches. We still indicate that six 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:47.760 inch could be used for fire hydrant connections and short 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:47.760 dead end mains for a short cul-de-sac or something with 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:47.760 limited service connections. 00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:58.760 The appendix B of the 2012 International Fire Code. 00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:03.460 A duplication in the area here here to show you how old it 00:36:03.460 --> 00:36:08.570 is special and unique exceptions to the above standards may 00:36:08.570 --> 00:36:13.079 be paid by the planning and zoning Commission have to 00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:17.760 recommendation from the public utilities board. 00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:22.760 Well, that's no longer the adapt that you've ever seen one. 00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:27.199 It's actually the director of water utilities that makes it 00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:28.760 fire hydrant spacing. 00:36:28.760 --> 00:36:29.760 Commissioner Beck. 00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:33.190 Well, I was going to wait till I got a 3.3 point three 00:36:33.190 --> 00:36:33.760 there. 00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:38.250 Okay, fire hydrant spacing here has been moved down to a 00:36:38.250 --> 00:36:43.159 lower section there, and it still remains to be 600 in 00:36:43.159 --> 00:36:47.760 residential and 300 and industrial commercial. 00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:48.760 Public fire hydrant. 00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:50.760 Commissioner Sullivan. 00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:54.760 Any reason for the difference between 600 and 500. 00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:56.760 600 and 300. 00:36:56.760 --> 00:37:02.760 Well, I mean, you know, 600 in residential area, so I know 00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:06.760 from an insurance standpoint 500 gives you a better rate. 00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:10.469 And so I'm just wondering why the city have a 600 foot 00:37:10.469 --> 00:37:12.760 rather than the 500 foot. 00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:18.050 If they're spaced 600 feet apart, then the further you can 00:37:18.050 --> 00:37:19.760 be as 300 feet. 00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:24.760 Exactly. That's why you're here and I'm not there. 00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:26.760 You've got a tougher job than I do. 00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:28.760 Appreciate that. Thank you. I didn't think about that. 00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:31.760 Thank you. 00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:38.030 Again, reference to the 2012 the update for the code here 00:37:38.030 --> 00:37:40.760 for the 2012 area here. 00:37:40.760 --> 00:37:43.760 2012 International Fire Code. Yes, sir. 00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:48.199 3.3 point three. If a fire flow test on the existing water 00:37:48.199 --> 00:37:49.760 system is necessary. Yes, sir. 00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:55.760 The water utilities. Okay. Who determines this? 00:37:55.760 --> 00:37:57.760 Fire flow test. 00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:01.190 That's going to be basically determine what if the city 00:38:01.190 --> 00:38:04.769 doesn't have the detailed information available at that 00:38:04.769 --> 00:38:08.760 time if they haven't run a fire flow test in that area. 00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:12.400 If the mechanical engineer of the buildings that are 00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:16.400 building it that are designing the fire protection there 00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:20.010 say hey we need a fire flow test to make sure that we're 00:38:20.010 --> 00:38:23.760 going to design the sprinkler system properly here. 00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:25.760 Jim. 00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:27.760 Anything else you can think of. 00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:33.570 Jim jinx is our manager of development review and deals 00:38:33.570 --> 00:38:36.760 with these things on a daily basis. 00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:40.070 The private sector as well as somebody in city planning can 00:38:40.070 --> 00:38:42.760 determine this. 00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:46.489 Well, we often get requests from developers engineers for 00:38:46.489 --> 00:38:49.900 fire flow tests and with these we go out and for I believe 00:38:49.900 --> 00:38:51.760 it's still for no charge. 00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:54.710 We go out and open up a hydrant put a meter on it actually 00:38:54.710 --> 00:38:56.760 see what comes out of the hydrant. 00:38:56.760 --> 00:39:00.269 And we can kind of extrapolate it down to you know minimum 00:39:00.269 --> 00:39:03.789 pressure what would be that way like John was saying they 00:39:03.789 --> 00:39:07.320 can helps give them information where they can properly 00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:09.760 size their fire protection systems. 00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:13.789 The fire flow test measures flow available flow, and it 00:39:13.789 --> 00:39:17.949 measures pressure there, and we really want to run those 00:39:17.949 --> 00:39:21.769 over a period of time so that we can tell during the peak 00:39:21.769 --> 00:39:25.929 demand times where the pressure will be the lowest in that 00:39:25.929 --> 00:39:30.090 area was the lowest so that the mechanical engineer can 00:39:30.090 --> 00:39:35.250 design his or her fire flow fire protection system for the 00:39:35.250 --> 00:39:38.210 lowest pressure that's available in the lowest flow that's 00:39:38.210 --> 00:39:38.760 available there. 00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:42.760 When you say floor talking about volume volume yes okay. 00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:44.760 Commissioner Sullivan. 00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:48.719 What is the pressure rate at the flow rate but the pressure 00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:53.010 what you know in that test. What's the minimum what's the 00:39:53.010 --> 00:39:55.760 maximum that you're looking for. 00:39:55.760 --> 00:39:59.130 Most of our pressures in the city I think are in the 00:39:59.130 --> 00:40:02.760 neighborhood of 40 to 50 psi or more. 00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:10.980 Yes, the. I believe with the fire for the TC the state TCEQ 00:40:10.980 --> 00:40:13.849 requires that during fire flow events that system pressure 00:40:13.849 --> 00:40:15.760 be maintained at least 20 psi. 00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:18.760 And oftentimes when these fire flow tests are done. 00:40:18.760 --> 00:40:22.579 We will suppose to do it to where you you flow enough water 00:40:22.579 --> 00:40:27.050 to get a 10% or a 10 psi drop in pressure, you can actually 00:40:27.050 --> 00:40:31.059 extrapolate mathematically down to project what what the 00:40:31.059 --> 00:40:32.760 flow rate would be. 00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:36.760 If you got all the way down to 20 psi. 00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:49.449 Thank you. In fact, when we design water systems, we want 00:40:49.449 --> 00:40:50.210 to design so that the minimum pressure for our house or 00:40:50.210 --> 00:40:51.119 residents for building is 20 psi we prefer it to be higher, 00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:51.760 but we never want it to be below 20. 00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:54.760 35, according to the state. 00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:57.760 Okay, absolute minimum during normal operation. 00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:02.760 Most of our system pressures are in the 40 to 80 psi range. 00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:07.760 Thank you. 00:41:07.760 --> 00:41:12.199 We were a bit we were a bit more likes in Florida where you 00:41:12.199 --> 00:41:15.760 don't have near the hills that we have here. 00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:26.320 A change in 3.5 just add in fittings here, because our 00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:39.760 table now we've deleted the old table. 00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:45.760 The pipe gasket material. 00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:51.170 And we've indicated we've inserted charts 3.5 dash one or 00:41:51.170 --> 00:41:53.760 tables 3.5 dash one. 00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:56.760 We've also this is throughout the manual. 00:41:56.760 --> 00:42:00.619 We've taken and we refer to instead of a number of the old 00:42:00.619 --> 00:42:04.780 drawings that were in the existing manual, we refer to our 00:42:04.780 --> 00:42:08.840 standard detail sheets and we refer to the drawing number 00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:13.760 on those standard detail sheets here on sheet three of the 00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:18.760 city standard details. 00:42:18.760 --> 00:42:25.500 We refer that all fittings of show have restrained joints, 00:42:25.500 --> 00:42:31.760 mechanically restrained in addition to thrust blocks. 00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:37.829 We have updated our meters and meter can vaults information 00:42:37.829 --> 00:42:38.760 here. 00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:47.489 Here's the current minimum requirements for pipe and fitt 00:42:47.489 --> 00:42:52.150 ings, the different sizes, the materials, the mechanical the 00:42:52.150 --> 00:42:56.139 fittings, what type of in the pipe embedment there are 00:42:56.139 --> 00:43:00.300 trench that you can lay it in the thrust restraints and all 00:43:00.300 --> 00:43:04.760 here for the different pipes all the way up above, even 00:43:04.760 --> 00:43:06.760 including above 30 inch. 00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:24.760 We've updated our information on the acceptable meters. 00:43:24.760 --> 00:43:32.010 And the city provides those meters there, based on the taps 00:43:32.010 --> 00:43:37.760 in the requirements by the design engineer. 00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:46.829 These require vaults concrete vaults for meters larger than 00:43:46.829 --> 00:43:55.179 two inch, so that you can access them and be able to get in 00:43:55.179 --> 00:44:00.760 them and repair them or replace them. 00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:05.010 Here we indicate the mechanical, MEP, mechanical, 00:44:05.010 --> 00:44:09.400 electrical and plumbing engineers should identify the 00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:14.150 proposed sizes and location for the domestic water meters, 00:44:14.150 --> 00:44:17.760 fire connections and irrigation meters. 00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:25.400 We also provide the table from the group provide a table 00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:30.550 here for them from the 2012 International Plumbing Code so 00:44:30.550 --> 00:44:33.760 they can use that to size their meters. 00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:49.019 We also indicate down here. There's a table in here now 00:44:49.019 --> 00:44:49.460 that indicates what your work that your tap fee is going to 00:44:49.460 --> 00:44:49.760 be our impact fee I'm sorry. 00:44:49.760 --> 00:44:53.760 So this information is all updated here. 00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:59.760 Just simply requiring that water meters and cans and vaults 00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:05.409 be placed within the city right away. Some people think 00:45:05.409 --> 00:45:09.760 they can place it out outside the right away. 00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:15.760 Again references to the standard detail sheets. 00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:20.050 And here's the table from the International Plumbing Code 00:45:20.050 --> 00:45:24.250 meter size the distribution pipe size, the service pipe 00:45:24.250 --> 00:45:28.539 there from the main to the meter in the maximum development 00:45:28.539 --> 00:45:29.760 link there. 00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:39.369 It will show the minimum size of the water meter required 00:45:39.369 --> 00:45:40.760 for that. 00:45:40.760 --> 00:45:46.519 And there are several pages of that chart that one comes 00:45:46.519 --> 00:45:51.760 straight out of the International Plumbing Code. 00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:54.760 Then a sample. 00:45:54.760 --> 00:45:58.760 Jim what's WSF you mean now. 00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:00.760 I think of it as a service fixture unit. 00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:01.760 Okay. 00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:06.760 I think of it as if issues radio station. 00:46:06.760 --> 00:46:10.760 A table here that we asked that they prepare. 00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:14.820 We provide them a sample. We asked that they prepare this 00:46:14.820 --> 00:46:18.500 so that we can then tell they can tell and we can tell what 00:46:18.500 --> 00:46:22.360 their total fixture units for that development is planned 00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:25.760 to be that ties into the plumbing code. 00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:31.760 That fixture unit. 00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:39.760 It's it can be converted to a flow value for sizing. 00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:45.260 Here we've added added a table for the single family 00:46:45.260 --> 00:46:50.320 equivalents for the meter sizes and caution them that you 00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:54.880 know you don't really want to just go out and say well if a 00:46:54.880 --> 00:46:59.289 one inch meter would do me then I want a two inch meter so 00:46:59.289 --> 00:47:00.760 it'd be better. 00:47:00.760 --> 00:47:06.260 Well if that happens then you go from a one inch meter of 00:47:06.260 --> 00:47:10.699 two and a half times the standard impact fee for single 00:47:10.699 --> 00:47:15.179 family residents to eight times that impact fee, which 00:47:15.179 --> 00:47:21.760 becomes a three times as large of an impact fee. 00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:26.760 And some people don't realize that. 00:47:26.760 --> 00:47:33.760 And some way I have gotten this chart in between. 00:47:33.760 --> 00:47:41.809 The other chart. I thought the other one was fairly short 00:47:41.809 --> 00:47:42.760 there. 00:47:42.760 --> 00:47:45.760 And we get back beyond that. 00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:52.760 We indicate about high highway crossings. 00:47:52.760 --> 00:47:56.809 Contact the, we just say that caution them that sometimes 00:47:56.809 --> 00:48:00.980 our criteria is more stringent than the highway department 00:48:00.980 --> 00:48:01.760 there. 00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:06.760 Road crossings. 00:48:06.760 --> 00:48:11.400 Boring and jacking, tunneling, here requiring that all 00:48:11.400 --> 00:48:15.860 carrier pipes, that's the pipe inside the cased casing 00:48:15.860 --> 00:48:20.510 there, the jacked casing, the pipe inside is the carrier 00:48:20.510 --> 00:48:24.760 casing, the outside pipe is the casing itself. 00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:25.760 Commissioner Beck. 00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:26.760 Thank you chair. 00:48:26.760 --> 00:48:27.760 Yeah question on that. 00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:28.760 Okay. 00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:30.760 What have you got? 00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:34.070 Two different materials, you got the carrier pipe being one 00:48:34.070 --> 00:48:37.139 material and the casing being another material or can it 00:48:37.139 --> 00:48:38.760 both be the same material? 00:48:38.760 --> 00:48:41.760 Generally the carrier pipe is a steel pipe. 00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:47.260 And normally water line pipes are either ductile, PVC, or 00:48:47.260 --> 00:48:49.760 some other. 00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:51.760 These are water supply lines or wastewater? 00:48:51.760 --> 00:48:56.199 These are water, in this particular case this is water 00:48:56.199 --> 00:48:57.760 supply line here. 00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:00.760 And later in section four we get into wastewater. 00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:03.760 So why would you have a water supply line in casing? 00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:07.269 Because aren't in the casing in the event that something 00:49:07.269 --> 00:49:08.760 breaks you will not? 00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:13.730 Well most of the time the casing is used to get under a 00:49:13.730 --> 00:49:17.760 main road like University Boulevard. 00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:21.079 The state's not going to let us go out and cut University 00:49:21.079 --> 00:49:22.760 Boulevard anytime soon. 00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:26.460 It wouldn't be very smart to try to do it anyway with all 00:49:26.460 --> 00:49:27.760 that traffic. 00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:32.940 So you go and you would dig a pit on one side, jack and 00:49:32.940 --> 00:49:36.760 bore a casing underneath it. 00:49:36.760 --> 00:49:40.719 If it's for a 12 inch then it's probably going to be 00:49:40.719 --> 00:49:45.239 somewhere in the neighborhood of a 20 to 24 inch steel 00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:47.760 casing for a 12 inch line. 00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:52.480 You'd bore that underneath there and then slide the carrier 00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:55.760 pipe through it and then connect on the other side. 00:49:55.760 --> 00:49:59.829 And this requires here that they're going to be installed 00:49:59.829 --> 00:50:03.760 by the pipe manufacturers depending on whether it's PVC, 00:50:03.760 --> 00:50:06.760 ductile, or some other type. 00:50:06.760 --> 00:50:10.280 Whatever the pipe manufacturer recommends for that 00:50:10.280 --> 00:50:14.760 connections there, installation and connections. 00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:19.300 And that they're going to be supported with approved spac 00:50:19.300 --> 00:50:20.760 ers in the pipe. 00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:25.760 It's not going to sit right on the casing itself. 00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:30.760 And then if you depending on it we may pay extra. 00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:35.760 The city may decide to pay extra to have a larger casing 00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:37.760 and maybe it's a 12 inch pipe down. 00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:44.760 And then later we go to an 18 or something. 00:50:44.760 --> 00:50:45.760 Yes sir. 00:50:45.760 --> 00:50:50.420 You can do that without boring and casing in or digging up 00:50:50.420 --> 00:50:51.760 the roadway. 00:50:51.760 --> 00:50:58.239 Particularly on a railroad that's the only way they'll let 00:50:58.239 --> 00:51:01.760 you cross their track there. 00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:08.809 References to other sections here regarding air relief 00:51:08.809 --> 00:51:09.760 valves. 00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:15.510 Requiring valves on each side of the crossing there in case 00:51:15.510 --> 00:51:18.760 something happens to a crossing. 00:51:18.760 --> 00:51:26.090 Here we know about them and the local community knows about 00:51:26.090 --> 00:51:28.760 them but we have pressure zones in the city. 00:51:28.760 --> 00:51:31.760 Jim, we have four? 00:51:31.760 --> 00:51:32.760 Three. 00:51:32.760 --> 00:51:33.760 Three? 00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:34.760 Okay. 00:51:34.760 --> 00:51:37.760 Three different pressure zones in the city and all of that. 00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:41.170 When you connect between those it'll be maybe a higher 00:51:41.170 --> 00:51:44.760 pressure here and a lower pressure here in this area, 00:51:44.760 --> 00:51:45.760 geographic area. 00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:48.840 But when you connect between the two you have to have a 00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:52.320 pressure reducing valve there to be able to equalize the 00:51:52.320 --> 00:51:52.760 pressure. 00:51:52.760 --> 00:51:57.579 And keep from dropping the pressure and one or raising in 00:51:57.579 --> 00:51:58.760 the other. 00:51:58.760 --> 00:52:04.760 Because of the topography difference within town. 00:52:04.760 --> 00:52:10.760 And here's where we refer them to that requirement there. 00:52:10.760 --> 00:52:16.059 That it may require a pressure reducing valve depending on 00:52:16.059 --> 00:52:17.760 the situation. 00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:26.760 Again, references to the drawings and the standard details. 00:52:26.760 --> 00:52:29.760 Section on valves. 00:52:29.760 --> 00:52:34.750 I didn't, I could have, this is a typical thing that I 00:52:34.750 --> 00:52:37.760 would have shown as not having changed. 00:52:37.760 --> 00:52:41.760 Changing the word valving to valves. 00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:44.760 But I didn't in this case. 00:52:44.760 --> 00:52:49.809 This section, a more detailed section about the location of 00:52:49.809 --> 00:52:50.760 valves. 00:52:50.760 --> 00:53:03.760 Where we require those and where they need to be placed. 00:53:03.760 --> 00:53:07.760 More references to the drawings. 00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:12.940 Here's valve requirements, the types that we require for 00:53:12.940 --> 00:53:14.760 the different sizes. 00:53:14.760 --> 00:53:23.760 And the orientation and the types of operators there. 00:53:23.760 --> 00:53:28.760 Section on air release valves. 00:53:28.760 --> 00:53:35.389 In some cases for 12 inches and below we may not require an 00:53:35.389 --> 00:53:37.760 air release valve. 00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:41.539 If there's going to be a fire hydrant near there, the fire 00:53:41.539 --> 00:53:43.760 hydrant will be used for that. 00:53:43.760 --> 00:53:50.789 And depending if it's not a large difference, a large peak 00:53:50.789 --> 00:53:54.760 or a large hill that's going over. 00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:58.849 Air in water lines causes water hammer that you've noticed 00:53:58.849 --> 00:54:02.760 at your home when you turn off something. 00:54:02.760 --> 00:54:06.760 A faucet fast, it dun dun dun dun dun dun type thing. 00:54:06.760 --> 00:54:11.760 That's the water hammer from air in the water line there. 00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:16.239 It's annoying at the house and it could be costly if it 00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:17.760 breaks a line. 00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:22.880 If it's in a 24 inch transmission line or something or 18 00:54:22.880 --> 00:54:27.750 inch water supply line, it can be really bad there and 00:54:27.750 --> 00:54:31.760 cause a lot of cost. 00:54:31.760 --> 00:54:36.760 Dead end mains, we prefer not to have dead end mains. 00:54:36.760 --> 00:54:40.989 Here we require fire hydrants at the end of those dead end 00:54:40.989 --> 00:54:41.760 mains. 00:54:41.760 --> 00:54:46.900 If a water line runs out in dead ends, if there are not a 00:54:46.900 --> 00:54:51.690 lot of services on that water line there, on that section 00:54:51.690 --> 00:54:54.760 of the water line, the dead end water line there, 00:54:54.760 --> 00:55:00.300 then that water can become stagnant over a period of time 00:55:00.300 --> 00:55:06.079 and become environmentally bad, if you will, biologically 00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:06.760 bad. 00:55:06.760 --> 00:55:10.760 So we require fire hydrants on the end of it there. 00:55:10.760 --> 00:55:13.760 We would discourage them, but if you have to have them. 00:55:13.760 --> 00:55:17.760 And then here's the fire hydrant location and coverage. 00:55:17.760 --> 00:55:24.760 Same thing that we had before, just in where I thought it 00:55:24.760 --> 00:55:26.760 seemed to fit better. 00:55:26.760 --> 00:55:31.199 And if I were looking for it, I would look here at a place 00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:35.760 under fire hydrant locations and coverage rather than at 00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:37.760 the other location. 00:55:37.760 --> 00:55:44.760 Requirements for abandoning water mains. 00:55:44.760 --> 00:55:49.760 Again, references to drawings there. 00:55:49.760 --> 00:55:55.400 We're asking, before it said that all valves that are being 00:55:55.400 --> 00:55:57.760 abandoned should be removed and delivered to us. 00:55:57.760 --> 00:56:02.800 Now we have changed that and said only valves 16 inches and 00:56:02.800 --> 00:56:03.760 larger. 00:56:03.760 --> 00:56:07.989 And here's the note here where I've taken out those water 00:56:07.989 --> 00:56:14.110 drawings and referred the person to those drawings in the 00:56:14.110 --> 00:56:16.760 old manual if they really want to look at those. 00:56:16.760 --> 00:56:25.760 It was just like 12 pages or 12 to 18 pages of drawings. 00:56:25.760 --> 00:56:30.760 Then we get into section four wastewater design guidelines. 00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:36.760 Updates of the references there. 00:56:36.760 --> 00:56:39.760 Updates. 00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:46.760 The old reference was to. 00:56:46.760 --> 00:56:48.760 I lost it now. 00:56:48.760 --> 00:56:57.039 It used to be TNRCC and that's the Texas Commission on 00:56:57.039 --> 00:57:06.760 Environmental Quality to their administrative rules there. 00:57:06.760 --> 00:57:14.239 And the old chart from the TNRCC criteria and the new chart 00:57:14.239 --> 00:57:21.860 that's been accepted from TCEQ's rules there and placed in 00:57:21.860 --> 00:57:23.760 this area. 00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:28.199 The old section on separation and spacing of sewer mains 00:57:28.199 --> 00:57:29.760 from water mains. 00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:34.710 Now TCEQ calls it separation distances between wastewater 00:57:34.710 --> 00:57:39.260 collection system pipes and manholes and public water 00:57:39.260 --> 00:57:40.760 supply pipes. 00:57:40.760 --> 00:57:45.199 Why? They just said separation of sewer lines from water 00:57:45.199 --> 00:57:45.760 lines. 00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:50.760 I don't know. 00:57:50.760 --> 00:57:55.230 I caution that we no longer allow the use of cast iron and 00:57:55.230 --> 00:57:59.010 these come straight out of this TCEQ rules and 00:57:59.010 --> 00:58:01.760 administrative rules there. 00:58:01.760 --> 00:58:07.340 And I think you, sir, you had a question earlier about the 00:58:07.340 --> 00:58:12.760 water main over or under the sewer line or something. 00:58:12.760 --> 00:58:24.760 Okay. 00:58:24.760 --> 00:58:29.400 Basically, I don't know why they take so many words to say 00:58:29.400 --> 00:58:32.099 it, but basically the requirement is nine feet of 00:58:32.099 --> 00:58:35.760 separation between the outside of the pipes there. 00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:39.530 And then if you can't get that, then these go into the 00:58:39.530 --> 00:58:43.849 different scenarios if your pipe, the sewer line's over or 00:58:43.849 --> 00:58:47.460 if it's under the water line or if it's closer to the water 00:58:47.460 --> 00:58:47.760 line, 00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:51.739 that it has to be both of them have to be pressure lines 00:58:51.739 --> 00:58:58.010 there so that there can't be any opportunity of the if the 00:58:58.010 --> 00:59:00.760 water line breaks or something there, 00:59:00.760 --> 00:59:06.429 then there can't be or has a crack in it. It can't pull in 00:59:06.429 --> 00:59:08.650 any of the wastewater leaking wastewater from the 00:59:08.650 --> 00:59:10.760 surrounding ground into the water system. 00:59:10.760 --> 00:59:13.760 And right. That's what I was talking about. 00:59:13.760 --> 00:59:15.760 Using a casing. 00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:18.909 But I thought it was only for wastewater lines, so it 00:59:18.909 --> 00:59:21.760 wouldn't contaminate underground water. 00:59:21.760 --> 00:59:25.760 That's what that reference was. 00:59:25.760 --> 00:59:32.760 Again, continuing on with that portion here. 00:59:32.760 --> 00:59:36.760 Size and slope of sewer. 00:59:36.760 --> 00:59:41.289 Here we require a minimum roughness coefficient of point 00:59:41.289 --> 00:59:42.760 zero one three. 00:59:42.760 --> 00:59:46.760 The lowest I've ever seen is like point zero one zero. 00:59:46.760 --> 00:59:53.760 So you're 300 soft. 00:59:53.760 --> 01:00:01.760 This is from the part title 30 Texas Administrative Code, 01:00:01.760 --> 01:00:08.760 the TCEQ chart summarizing some of the distances there. 01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:12.760 Minimum and maximum pipe slopes from the TCEQ. 01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:15.639 We've amended it. They have amended some of their 01:00:15.639 --> 01:00:16.760 requirements. 01:00:16.760 --> 01:00:21.710 The minimum slope and percent for six inch pipe is now zero 01:00:21.710 --> 01:00:33.949 point five zero percent and some of the other minor changes 01:00:33.949 --> 01:00:35.760 there. 01:00:35.760 --> 01:00:41.900 High velocity protection if the sewer line is very on a 01:00:41.900 --> 01:00:48.579 very steep grade, what to do to prevent it from displacing 01:00:48.579 --> 01:00:50.760 dislodging there. 01:00:50.760 --> 01:00:56.199 Again, we refer to drawing U 204 sheet seven of the city 01:00:56.199 --> 01:00:59.760 standard details to get them to the right location there. 01:00:59.760 --> 01:01:05.760 A change in name. 01:01:05.760 --> 01:01:09.929 Here we indicate what our minimum lateral sizes are sewer 01:01:09.929 --> 01:01:13.989 service sizes are for which for a single family for which 01:01:13.989 --> 01:01:17.420 for residential duplex and triplex and then six inch 01:01:17.420 --> 01:01:21.760 minimum for retail commercial like commercial etc. 01:01:21.760 --> 01:01:30.610 And that's going to depend on the flow of the fixture units 01:01:30.610 --> 01:01:39.280 that you saw earlier as to the size that it really needs to 01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:39.760 be 01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:43.639 gravity and force main sewer pipe material. You see that we 01:01:43.639 --> 01:01:47.230 have some pumping a few pumping stations throughout the 01:01:47.230 --> 01:01:51.110 city. Those are called force bands when you pump the sewage 01:01:51.110 --> 01:01:54.829 from that lift station over the hill to get back into a 01:01:54.829 --> 01:01:56.760 gravity sewer system there. 01:01:56.760 --> 01:02:08.760 Here's the update of the pipe material that we require now 01:02:08.760 --> 01:02:15.760 sewer pipe embedment trench 01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:22.260 manhole types that we accept cast in place precast with lin 01:02:22.260 --> 01:02:27.760 ers and the types of liners that we accept there. 01:02:27.760 --> 01:02:33.460 That we will allow sewer mainland clean out if the main 01:02:33.460 --> 01:02:39.760 line is less than 150 feet long from the last manhole. 01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:58.789 Talking about textiles utility accommodation zone. We text 01:02:58.789 --> 01:02:59.019 that doesn't give much room and the utility combination 01:02:59.019 --> 01:02:59.230 bone zone for all the other utilities, so we get for water 01:02:59.230 --> 01:02:59.480 and wastewater lines, we get separate easements outside of 01:02:59.480 --> 01:03:08.760 the text right away there. 01:03:08.760 --> 01:03:14.760 Yes sir. Commissioner Beck. Thank you chair on abandonment. 01:03:14.760 --> 01:03:19.469 How often do we leave the old sewer lines in there do it 01:03:19.469 --> 01:03:22.760 and do it for cost effective reasons. 01:03:22.760 --> 01:03:27.030 I'm sorry, leaving the old when we abandon a sewer line. 01:03:27.030 --> 01:03:31.019 Often do we just leave them in there and go on, we tend to 01:03:31.019 --> 01:03:35.190 pull them out most of the time. No sir, if the, if we're 01:03:35.190 --> 01:03:38.760 going to build a new line in the same trend. 01:03:38.760 --> 01:03:42.719 Third, because if there are services off of it, because you 01:03:42.719 --> 01:03:46.500 can connect the services easier there from both sides there 01:03:46.500 --> 01:03:50.159 . If we're going to reroute the sanitary sewer say, and 01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:54.769 leave it there, we'll take and we'll have a specific method 01:03:54.769 --> 01:03:59.300 of abandoning the manholes in it there taking the top off 01:03:59.300 --> 01:04:05.150 filling it with cement grout and plugging the pipe ends, 01:04:05.150 --> 01:04:07.760 but we leave the pipe there in those cases. 01:04:07.760 --> 01:04:11.849 Okay, in most cases, but it is more cost effective than 01:04:11.849 --> 01:04:14.760 leaving them in the ground. Yes sir. 01:04:14.760 --> 01:04:19.429 Of course, I had a sewer foreman sewer construction foreman 01:04:19.429 --> 01:04:23.730 one day that some time ago that I went out to him and said, 01:04:23.730 --> 01:04:28.269 Parmali, I'm sorry, but we figured out a better way to wrap 01:04:28.269 --> 01:04:32.280 the sewer line and we need you to dig this up and we need 01:04:32.280 --> 01:04:34.760 to slope it the other way. 01:04:34.760 --> 01:04:46.429 John no problem. They pay me just as much for digging it up 01:04:46.429 --> 01:04:47.449 as they do for to put it down. So, okay, I never thought of 01:04:47.449 --> 01:04:48.460 it that way. I think we've got a special treatment got some 01:04:48.460 --> 01:04:49.369 food sound like it's been delivered so you won't take a 01:04:49.369 --> 01:04:51.760 break and we'll get some food and we can continue 01:04:51.760 --> 01:04:53.760 just a real quick one. 01:04:53.760 --> 01:04:56.760 Yep, I got food now. 01:04:56.760 --> 01:05:05.760 Yeah. 01:05:05.760 --> 01:05:08.570 He says that six oh six and let's try to get back as quick 01:05:08.570 --> 01:05:11.760 as we can we still got a lot to get through. 01:05:11.760 --> 01:05:17.300 The coatings we require, and we've added the ability to use 01:05:17.300 --> 01:05:22.590 the coding systems that we show for precast manholes that 01:05:22.590 --> 01:05:28.260 we show on our design detail sheets, standard detail sheets 01:05:28.260 --> 01:05:28.760 . 01:05:28.760 --> 01:05:32.079 We don't have a detail for fence and gate configuration 01:05:32.079 --> 01:05:36.760 anymore. So that's been cut out. 01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:42.039 Here is a section out of TCQs current rules there about the 01:05:42.039 --> 01:05:47.539 volume of wet wells, and how you the requirement for sizing 01:05:47.539 --> 01:05:52.769 those are part of the requirement for sizing them during 01:05:52.769 --> 01:05:54.760 our for power outages. 01:05:54.760 --> 01:06:02.380 They're required to size them for at least 20 minutes or 01:06:02.380 --> 01:06:09.719 for the longest power outage on record for the past 60 01:06:09.719 --> 01:06:12.760 months past five years. 01:06:12.760 --> 01:06:18.449 References again to the standard detail drawings in the 01:06:18.449 --> 01:06:23.760 standard detail sheets here for air release valves. 01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:29.760 Here's one of the major changes that we've made here. 01:06:29.760 --> 01:06:35.199 We had sections subsections for electrical requirements and 01:06:35.199 --> 01:06:39.760 for electronic requirements for lift stations. 01:06:39.760 --> 01:06:44.019 We don't very developments don't very often construct lift 01:06:44.019 --> 01:06:46.760 stations for their developments. 01:06:46.760 --> 01:06:53.760 Jim, an estimate of how often roughly they yield? 01:06:53.760 --> 01:06:57.469 In the development review, we may see a project that 01:06:57.469 --> 01:07:01.760 involves a public lift station once every couple years. 01:07:01.760 --> 01:07:09.739 So it's but I guess I would liken it to I buy the latest 01:07:09.739 --> 01:07:17.300 router and before I Wi-Fi router for my house and before I 01:07:17.300 --> 01:07:21.530 can get it connected to my computers, my printers and set 01:07:21.530 --> 01:07:25.829 up and connected my internet and all, they've come out with 01:07:25.829 --> 01:07:29.760 a new router that's got another class on it. 01:07:29.760 --> 01:07:34.760 It's gone from A, B, C, G, N, et cetera, et cetera. 01:07:34.760 --> 01:07:39.349 Now, no, that's the same way in electronics electrical for 01:07:39.349 --> 01:07:40.760 lift stations. 01:07:40.760 --> 01:07:45.760 They make quite a bit of advancements each year in those. 01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:50.289 So we decided that the best thing to do there is just keep 01:07:50.289 --> 01:07:51.760 a current one. 01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:55.079 And if someone needs to has a need for lift station, then 01:07:55.079 --> 01:07:58.409 we'll provide them the most current up to date one with the 01:07:58.409 --> 01:08:01.789 most current up to date equipment and electronics that we 01:08:01.789 --> 01:08:05.230 're specifying in our that we're using in our lift stations 01:08:05.230 --> 01:08:09.760 that we build or or reconstruct ourselves. 01:08:09.760 --> 01:08:17.399 So that takes a number of here was the electronic 01:08:17.399 --> 01:08:19.760 requirements. 01:08:19.760 --> 01:08:23.869 Then we get into some general areas rights of way in eas 01:08:23.869 --> 01:08:24.760 ements. 01:08:24.760 --> 01:08:28.310 Their development will need to get a right away or an eas 01:08:28.310 --> 01:08:32.189 ement off their development outside their area of the plant 01:08:32.189 --> 01:08:35.760 to connect to an existing sewer line or water line. 01:08:35.760 --> 01:08:39.960 And these are the processes we've updated the process there 01:08:39.960 --> 01:08:43.819 in the names of the positions of the offices that handle 01:08:43.819 --> 01:08:44.760 that now. 01:08:44.760 --> 01:08:48.819 Basically, the city city legal department has prepared 01:08:48.819 --> 01:08:52.949 standard legal documents for easements and rights of ways 01:08:52.949 --> 01:08:55.760 for the different utilities there. 01:08:55.760 --> 01:08:59.760 We take and furnish those to the developer. 01:08:59.760 --> 01:09:03.989 They hire a land surveyor to write the legal description 01:09:03.989 --> 01:09:08.510 survey, the legal description, the easement, prepare the 01:09:08.510 --> 01:09:11.760 legal description and prepare a sketch of that. 01:09:11.760 --> 01:09:14.880 They put that document back together, give it to us. We 01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:17.970 review it, give it back to them and say, okay, go forth and 01:09:17.970 --> 01:09:19.760 do good things and acquire it. 01:09:19.760 --> 01:09:23.760 Now they bring it back to us in the city reviews it. 01:09:23.760 --> 01:09:30.520 And then we record it with them paying the recording fee 01:09:30.520 --> 01:09:31.760 for it. 01:09:31.760 --> 01:09:34.760 And that's all this does here. 01:09:34.760 --> 01:09:43.279 Then the city tech start in railroad companies will not 01:09:43.279 --> 01:09:47.760 accept a permit from a private enterprise. 01:09:47.760 --> 01:09:51.539 They want the permit to be from the utility owner so that 01:09:51.539 --> 01:09:55.489 in the future they've got leverage over the utility owner 01:09:55.489 --> 01:09:56.760 there and all. 01:09:56.760 --> 01:10:01.939 So we have to make all permit applications in the city's 01:10:01.939 --> 01:10:06.300 name for the development. And that's what this section does 01:10:06.300 --> 01:10:06.760 here. 01:10:06.760 --> 01:10:13.359 Here is an outdated form that our real estate people didn't 01:10:13.359 --> 01:10:16.760 even know existed anymore. 01:10:16.760 --> 01:10:22.840 We go in and explain to them about the text on permits and 01:10:22.840 --> 01:10:27.930 we refer them to somewhere here. We refer them to text us 01:10:27.930 --> 01:10:31.079 use of right away by others manual and give them the 01:10:31.079 --> 01:10:35.760 website even for that location of that manual there. 01:10:35.760 --> 01:10:41.760 And hope that text doesn't change it. 01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:47.010 A section for agenda plan revisions and change orders. Occ 01:10:47.010 --> 01:10:50.760 asionally the occasionally almost whenever project. 01:10:50.760 --> 01:10:53.760 There's some change necessary in the plans. 01:10:53.760 --> 01:10:56.760 Commissioner Beck. Yes, sir. 01:10:56.760 --> 01:10:59.760 When you get on the six one to. 01:10:59.760 --> 01:11:00.760 Yes. 01:11:00.760 --> 01:11:03.760 Yeah, right. No city projects. Yes, sir. 01:11:03.760 --> 01:11:07.420 It says the city's design engineer is not to attempt to 01:11:07.420 --> 01:11:11.500 contact contractors at any time concerning agenda plan rev 01:11:11.500 --> 01:11:14.760 isions of change or that just caught my eye. 01:11:14.760 --> 01:11:19.199 It seems rather rigid. Is there a reason why we don't want 01:11:19.199 --> 01:11:21.760 them to communicate at any level. 01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:23.760 We don't have something to do with the bidding process. 01:11:23.760 --> 01:11:28.020 Well, we want. We don't want them contacting the contractor 01:11:28.020 --> 01:11:32.130 directly about that or the contractor contacting the design 01:11:32.130 --> 01:11:34.760 engineer directly. And this really is. 01:11:34.760 --> 01:12:01.770 And more in our consultant engineers. We don't want it's 01:12:01.770 --> 01:12:01.829 not that we don't want them to talk and be involved in it. 01:12:01.829 --> 01:12:01.909 We want that contact coming through the city's 01:12:01.909 --> 01:12:01.979 representative, which is first on the ground, the 01:12:01.979 --> 01:12:02.060 construction inspector on the ground, then the city's 01:12:02.060 --> 01:12:02.140 project manager. And then if we decide that we need the 01:12:02.140 --> 01:12:02.239 design engineer consultant design engineer involved in it, 01:12:02.239 --> 01:12:02.760 we will involve them and bring them into the conversation. 01:12:02.760 --> 01:12:06.390 Otherwise, you get this contractor and the design 01:12:06.390 --> 01:12:10.399 consultant talking and the city has no idea. And then the 01:12:10.399 --> 01:12:13.489 contractors comes and says, oh, by the way, we had this 01:12:13.489 --> 01:12:17.420 problem out there and here's this $25,000 change order that 01:12:17.420 --> 01:12:19.760 I've worked out with your consultant. 01:12:19.760 --> 01:12:22.760 We say. 01:12:22.760 --> 01:12:27.909 So it's really to make sure the communications are flowing 01:12:27.909 --> 01:12:33.029 to the right people. It's not that we're trying to box off 01:12:33.029 --> 01:12:34.760 anybody there. 01:12:34.760 --> 01:12:38.079 And we tried to differentiate between city projects, what 01:12:38.079 --> 01:12:40.779 the process is for city projects and what it is for 01:12:40.779 --> 01:12:44.350 development projects there. The same thing with development 01:12:44.350 --> 01:12:47.869 projects. Then contractors should go through the inspector 01:12:47.869 --> 01:12:52.770 and the inspector should go back to development review and 01:12:52.770 --> 01:12:57.760 then to the development engineer for that. 01:12:57.760 --> 01:13:03.600 Again, here's change orders for development projects and 01:13:03.600 --> 01:13:05.760 for city projects. 01:13:05.760 --> 01:13:11.189 And we've changed our over the years we've changed the 01:13:11.189 --> 01:13:16.760 thresholds here for the change order approvals there. 01:13:16.760 --> 01:13:22.119 Distribution of modified plans change plans and specs or 01:13:22.119 --> 01:13:24.760 specs for city projects. 01:13:24.760 --> 01:13:29.810 Section on submittals material submittals and shop drawings 01:13:29.810 --> 01:13:34.199 submittals shop drawings being a engineering design 01:13:34.199 --> 01:13:39.180 fabrication thing and materials listing simply being a list 01:13:39.180 --> 01:13:43.989 of materials that contractor plans to use on this contract 01:13:43.989 --> 01:13:45.760 or this development. 01:13:45.760 --> 01:13:50.869 So we can check and make sure that it's an approved 01:13:50.869 --> 01:13:57.300 material, and we provide to the development engineer prior 01:13:57.300 --> 01:14:02.579 to the approval of the plans, a list of the approved 01:14:02.579 --> 01:14:08.430 materials in the manual here has a list of those approved 01:14:08.430 --> 01:14:09.760 materials. 01:14:09.760 --> 01:14:16.359 Shop drawings material shop drawings, at least we used to 01:14:16.359 --> 01:14:22.539 require five copies now we require one, preferably in 01:14:22.539 --> 01:14:24.760 electronic format. 01:14:24.760 --> 01:14:32.760 How the review will be performed. 01:14:32.760 --> 01:14:38.010 And how we will respond back with some little acceptable 01:14:38.010 --> 01:14:43.710 with minor exceptions accepted to middle, or it's rejected 01:14:43.710 --> 01:14:46.760 nonconformance of some middle. 01:14:46.760 --> 01:15:02.989 And then, in the old manual. There was a another section 01:15:02.989 --> 01:15:03.479 eight, which was called agenda plan revision and change 01:15:03.479 --> 01:15:04.000 orders, and another section nine, which was called submitt 01:15:04.000 --> 01:15:04.489 als, which was a duplication of the two that I've just gone 01:15:04.489 --> 01:15:06.760 over with you with slightly different wording, 01:15:06.760 --> 01:15:15.359 so we've combined those two are for in deleted eight and 01:15:15.359 --> 01:15:19.699 nine. Again, just like with the water drawings are taking 01:15:19.699 --> 01:15:22.979 the wastewater drawings, and they're all in the standard 01:15:22.979 --> 01:15:23.760 details now. 01:15:23.760 --> 01:15:30.350 In the old section 10 on site sewage facilities septic 01:15:30.350 --> 01:15:36.449 tanks, probably able to put that in parentheses here 01:15:36.449 --> 01:15:43.789 reference to the correct TCEQ administrative code and just 01:15:43.789 --> 01:15:47.430 the preference that should be understood but sometimes not 01:15:47.430 --> 01:15:47.760 that these people 01:15:47.760 --> 01:15:51.399 professional engineer or professional sanitarian who are 01:15:51.399 --> 01:15:55.039 doing the side evaluations and planning for the septic tank 01:15:55.039 --> 01:15:57.760 have to be licensed by the state of Texas. 01:15:57.760 --> 01:16:03.760 And then the city issues the permit for that septic tank. 01:16:03.760 --> 01:16:09.760 That was the water and wastewater manual. 01:16:09.760 --> 01:16:13.760 Other questions on it Commissioner Sullivan. Yes, sir. 01:16:13.760 --> 01:16:18.710 If after all this, the developer goes through all these 76 01:16:18.710 --> 01:16:21.760 pages, or whatever it ends up being. 01:16:21.760 --> 01:16:25.470 And they say well I realized that a certain diameter of 01:16:25.470 --> 01:16:29.279 pipe is needed. I want to put in a smaller pipe because it 01:16:29.279 --> 01:16:31.760 's more efficient for me cost wise. 01:16:31.760 --> 01:16:33.760 Is that ever allowed. 01:16:33.760 --> 01:16:38.279 He can make a case for that and submit a request for that 01:16:38.279 --> 01:16:42.930 exception if you will, it'll be evaluated based on his 01:16:42.930 --> 01:16:46.760 design engineers computations and all. 01:16:46.760 --> 01:16:51.390 And in some cases, may prove out to be that that smaller 01:16:51.390 --> 01:16:52.760 pipe is okay. 01:16:52.760 --> 01:16:58.340 All the hybrid flows and all the things y'all talked about 01:16:58.340 --> 01:17:03.829 in here that a different size pipe would produce the same 01:17:03.829 --> 01:17:09.300 results that's necessary and so that would be a reason to 01:17:09.300 --> 01:17:10.760 deviate from. 01:17:10.760 --> 01:17:16.260 What's written here, you can't just like Jennifer knows you 01:17:16.260 --> 01:17:21.100 can't write an ordinance that covers every situation 01:17:21.100 --> 01:17:24.300 development. That's why you folks are here and that's why 01:17:24.300 --> 01:17:26.760 we have the variance board. 01:17:26.760 --> 01:17:30.760 And all you can't write an ordinance or policies and 01:17:30.760 --> 01:17:35.729 procedures, or anything else that covers every situation. 01:17:35.729 --> 01:17:39.949 So there has to be some logic in there reason for it and if 01:17:39.949 --> 01:17:44.760 they can prove that that will work and won't. 01:17:44.760 --> 01:17:49.199 The city can maintain it and operate it just as efficiently 01:17:49.199 --> 01:17:50.760 as the other one then. 01:17:50.760 --> 01:17:55.359 Okay, thank you. Now that's going to take longer to get 01:17:55.359 --> 01:17:59.619 through that process than to get just like if you come to 01:17:59.619 --> 01:18:03.329 me with a brand new material of pipe that was not on our 01:18:03.329 --> 01:18:07.960 acceptable list is going to take longer to look at that and 01:18:07.960 --> 01:18:09.760 evaluate that and do research on it. 01:18:09.760 --> 01:18:15.000 Then for you to use this but if you really want to do that, 01:18:15.000 --> 01:18:20.090 then we'll take the time to check and see if it's might be 01:18:20.090 --> 01:18:21.760 acceptable. 01:18:21.760 --> 01:18:29.770 Exactly. Thank you. Appreciate your other questions on 01:18:29.770 --> 01:18:33.760 water and wastewater. 01:18:33.760 --> 01:18:39.829 I don't know that we're going to get to the next one. Due 01:18:39.829 --> 01:18:41.770 to time, we've got to get back at 630 so for those that are 01:18:41.770 --> 01:18:44.619 watching online it is available on our website the 01:18:44.619 --> 01:18:46.760 construction criteria manual. 01:18:46.760 --> 01:18:50.800 And I think it's announced earlier over the next 30 days, 01:18:50.800 --> 01:18:54.199 we're going to be looking for public comment on all of 01:18:54.199 --> 01:18:57.760 these and see what those are and y'all will be reviewing 01:18:57.760 --> 01:19:01.409 those comments and addressing them as best you can and if 01:19:01.409 --> 01:19:04.760 not then it'll come back to PNC for another go through. 01:19:04.760 --> 01:19:08.279 Is that correct. Yes sir. Okay for public hearings and all 01:19:08.279 --> 01:19:09.760 there. Great. 01:19:09.760 --> 01:19:13.640 John thank you for your presentation. Sorry we had a lot of 01:19:13.640 --> 01:19:17.279 questions and didn't get through all of it but apologize 01:19:17.279 --> 01:19:19.989 for being so slow but hope I've answered your questions 01:19:19.989 --> 01:19:20.760 adequately. 01:19:20.760 --> 01:19:24.760 Did a great job. Thank you. Thank you. 01:19:24.760 --> 01:19:42.979 And with that at 626 I'm going to close our work session 01:19:42.979 --> 01:19:52.760 and we'll reconvene at six there. 01:19:52.760 --> 01:19:55.939 Good evening and welcome to the city of Denton planning and 01:19:55.939 --> 01:19:58.760 zoning Commission meeting for July the 26. 01:19:58.760 --> 01:20:02.229 This meeting has been duly posted and we do have a quorum 01:20:02.229 --> 01:20:06.560 present and I'm gonna call us to order at 636. And our 01:20:06.560 --> 01:20:12.239 first order of business will be to stand and give the 01:20:12.239 --> 01:20:15.760 pledge the US and the Texas flag. 01:20:15.760 --> 01:20:21.170 To the Republic for which it stands one nation under God 01:20:21.170 --> 01:20:25.760 indivisible with liberty and justice for all. 01:20:25.760 --> 01:20:45.760 Honor the Texas flag. 01:20:45.760 --> 01:20:49.859 Our next order of business will be our consent agenda and 01:20:49.859 --> 01:20:52.760 the chair would entertain a motion. 01:20:52.760 --> 01:20:57.289 Commissioner Beck. I know we approve consent agenda. 01:20:57.289 --> 01:20:59.449 Commissioner Rossell. I second. Okay. We have a first and a 01:20:59.449 --> 01:21:03.760 second. Any discussion. 01:21:03.760 --> 01:21:05.760 Seeing none. 01:21:05.760 --> 01:21:13.760 We'll call for a vote on the board. 01:21:13.760 --> 01:21:20.800 Motion carries five to zero. And that will move us to our 01:21:20.800 --> 01:21:22.760 project matrix. 01:21:22.760 --> 01:21:24.760 Commissioner Beck. 01:21:24.760 --> 01:21:31.409 Yes, I just I'm curious. We've talked about this a couple 01:21:31.409 --> 01:21:37.649 times, but this thing's about a year old now. I'm just 01:21:37.649 --> 01:21:44.199 wondering what's delaying our new improved notification 01:21:44.199 --> 01:21:45.760 process. I've had concerns expressed about the failure of 01:21:45.760 --> 01:21:45.760 the signage that we wanted. 01:21:45.760 --> 01:21:49.130 We've made significant progress. We actually presented the 01:21:49.130 --> 01:21:52.050 notification procedures that the planning and zoning 01:21:52.050 --> 01:21:55.159 Commission recommended based on staff's presentation to 01:21:55.159 --> 01:21:58.760 them. It was a very fruitful conversation. 01:21:58.760 --> 01:22:02.550 One of the elements that we discussed was the postcard. We 01:22:02.550 --> 01:22:06.069 talked about notification of signs. We talked about 01:22:06.069 --> 01:22:09.859 certified mail where council was keen that we continue that 01:22:09.859 --> 01:22:13.369 process. And as a result, we've gone ahead and we've 01:22:13.369 --> 01:22:16.989 proceeded with issuing postcards and what have you. And we 01:22:16.989 --> 01:22:18.760 've instituted the process. 01:22:18.760 --> 01:22:22.760 So do we have a date certain maybe because. 01:22:22.760 --> 01:22:23.760 A date. 01:22:23.760 --> 01:22:26.090 Just seems like we've talked about it a long time. We've 01:22:26.090 --> 01:22:27.760 implemented the process. 01:22:27.760 --> 01:22:30.350 Okay. So we've gone with the postcards. We've gone with the 01:22:30.350 --> 01:22:33.439 signage. We've gone with all those elements. What we can do 01:22:33.439 --> 01:22:38.079 is do a quick summary. I had a work session. We haven't 01:22:38.079 --> 01:22:40.760 done the signs yet. 01:22:40.760 --> 01:22:42.760 So on any new development then. 01:22:42.760 --> 01:22:45.609 Let's do this for the next PNC. We'll do a quick work 01:22:45.609 --> 01:22:48.020 session to bring everybody up to speed on where we are with 01:22:48.020 --> 01:22:50.760 the process. Thank you. 01:22:50.760 --> 01:22:52.760 Chair would ask a question on that. 01:22:52.760 --> 01:22:54.760 There is one. 01:22:54.760 --> 01:22:58.130 Do we want to do that now or do we want to wait a few weeks 01:22:58.130 --> 01:23:01.670 and when we get our new commissioners on maybe do that at 01:23:01.670 --> 01:23:06.300 that time. That seems to be always a point of discussion 01:23:06.300 --> 01:23:07.760 with new members. 01:23:07.760 --> 01:23:10.300 And it's one of the reasons why we've had a light load in 01:23:10.300 --> 01:23:12.520 terms of we're trying to make sure we have a full 01:23:12.520 --> 01:23:15.449 commission because it can compromise an applicant's zoning 01:23:15.449 --> 01:23:16.760 case, for example. 01:23:16.760 --> 01:23:20.770 So we're trying to keep the agendas as light as possible 01:23:20.770 --> 01:23:23.760 until we don't fill these two seats. 01:23:23.760 --> 01:23:26.569 Okay, so we're going to wait until we get a full commission 01:23:26.569 --> 01:23:28.199 . Is that what we're saying? If that's the wish of the PNC 01:23:28.199 --> 01:23:28.760 commission, yes. 01:23:28.760 --> 01:23:31.760 Do we have any idea when that may happen? 01:23:31.760 --> 01:23:35.760 We anticipate some nominations at the August 1st meeting. 01:23:35.760 --> 01:23:39.260 That was the discussion I had with the city secretary and 01:23:39.260 --> 01:23:41.760 based on that we'll see where we are. 01:23:41.760 --> 01:23:42.760 Okay. 01:23:42.760 --> 01:23:44.760 But I can't say anything. 01:23:44.760 --> 01:23:47.760 So we have names that have been up for nomination. 01:23:47.760 --> 01:23:50.760 No, the nominations will be made on August 1st. 01:23:50.760 --> 01:23:55.760 Okay. All right. Thanks, Manal. 01:23:55.760 --> 01:24:02.760 Any other items for the matrix? 01:24:02.760 --> 01:24:06.720 Okay, seeing none, I will close our meeting this evening at 01:24:06.720 --> 01:24:08.760 640. Thank you, everyone.