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the 26th. It is 5.02 and this meeting has been dually

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posted and we have a quorum

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present and I will call us to order at this time. Our first

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order of business

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will be to receive clarification of agenda items and I will

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turn it over to

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Manal for presentation of those items. Thank you Chair

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person Strange. On our

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consent agenda we have a preliminary plight and three final

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plots. If there

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any questions related to those plots I'd welcome the

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project managers to help

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address those and then of course one of the items on the

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agenda work session

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item is a detailed presentation from John Davis, from our

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engineering team.

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So if there any questions to relate to the plot if not.

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Commissioner Rozelle.

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The only question I have is on FP170006. It's not attached

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to any road. Does that

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matter? I don't know the requirements for being adjacent to

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a road. Absolutely.

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Hayley has some good insight into this one. This has been

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an interesting one.

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Hayley just walk us through the entire subdivision plot. So

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this final plot is

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just for one lot. It's off of Teasley and Old Alton and you

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are correct it is

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landlocked by already platted properties so to provide

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access they

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have an access easement that comes off of Old Alton and

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goes down along the side

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of the property. There was a platted access easement for

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them to obtain access to

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the property and it's all it's all fully developed. I

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believe this site is trying

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to expand so that's what triggered them to come in and pl

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att but that has been

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their means of access for years is my understanding.

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Thank you. Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. Is that

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paved or is it going to be an old gravel road?

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I believe it's a paved drive. Thanks. Any other questions

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on this platt? Nope.

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Commissioner Elst, do you have a question on a platt? I do

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Chair. Thank you. Sorry. Mine has to do with the

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the Gisling Industrial Park and it's just more for my

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clarification. So we've

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got a preliminary platt for two lots but then a final platt

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for just one so I

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guess I just was wanting just the reasoning of that. The

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applicant is

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proposing to preliminary platt the whole site that's what

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they're required to do

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according to the Texas Local Government Code but they're

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only final plattin one lot

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of the two. Lot two will be final platt within two years of

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approval of

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the preliminary platt. Okay understood. Thank you for clar

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ifying it for me. I

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appreciate it. Commissioner Beck. Since Commissioner Elst

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brought it up I was just

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curious the ASA to the west of that Gisling Industrial Park

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and the trees

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there do we know if they're going to be impacted by the

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development? Yes there

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will be they will have to meet the tree code ordinance the

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tree code

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regulations that we have. Okay so we're gonna lose a lot of

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those trees? That will

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depend upon the development but they haven't applied for

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development yet.

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All righty thanks. Any other questions on platt?

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Superb I'd like to introduce John Davis who's going to give

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us a presentation

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and seek direction from you regarding the amendments to the

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City of Denton

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Water and Wastewater Criteria Manual and the Construction

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Criteria Manual and

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Associated Updates to the Standards. Thank you John. Thank

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You Manal.

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Commissioners I'm John Davis with the engineering with the

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engineering I'm

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here to go over with you in great detail all hundred and

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twenty two pages of

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those changes and so forth I'll try to make it as brief as

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I can please. Let me

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just the process for this and the reason that we're here at

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all. There are six

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criteria manuals that are identified in the city's

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development code there. You

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see them here you also see basically the size and the last

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time they were

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updated. We're in the process of updating all of these

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manuals and we've started

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with of course the latest the oldest ones here first and we

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bring to you the

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amendments proposed amendments for the first two here. You

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can see the others

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that are quite lengthy but the transportation design and

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drainage

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design criteria manuals were last updated in 2013. This is

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the process by

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the city's development code there and Jennifer is here to

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keep me on track and

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correct me when I go off track. It basically is for us to

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prepare the

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proposed amendments to present those amendments to you for

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suggestions and

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comments if you have any. We are then to post those

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amendments on the city's

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website and at City Hall here. In addition to that we plan

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to email out to all

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development oriented people who are registered in the city

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's track it system

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I notice that hey we're in the process of updating these

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and here's the notice

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and here's where you can find these documents there. We'll

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post the proposed

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amendments, we'll post the summary amendments there or

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summary of those

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amendments and we'll post the existing manuals there so

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that they can see what

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proposed changes are proposed there. Yes ma'am.

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Commissioner Ellis. Thank you

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Chair. Track it system can you enlighten me on that? Who's

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in it? How do they get

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in it? All developers or developer engineers who apply for

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a permit

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development permit with the City of Denton are registered

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in it with email

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addresses. I believe that's correct. So just an automatic

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thing when they do. Okay.

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We'll auto-generate through our software permitting and

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plan review software

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whomever we can notify that this is what's going on.

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Excellent. It's a big list. We think

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we think this is the best way to reach as many of the

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development community as

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possible there and make sure we have direct contact with

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them. After we post

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those we're required to post them for not less than 30 days

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for public

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comment. We will receive comments during that time, track

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those comments. We'll

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also in addition to the ordinance requirements try to place

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on the website

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a summary of the comments we received and what action we've

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taken for those

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comments so that people can keep up with them as we go

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through the process there.

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The ordinance calls for us to attempt to resolve all

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protests or requests that we

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request for review that we've received there. If we can do

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that at the end of

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the 30 days then the amendments become final automatically.

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I call it

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administratively. If we cannot resolve those protests or

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requests for review

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there then it would then go back to you or go back through

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the process as an

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ordinance then using the rezoning process that you're

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familiar with. It

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would come back to you for a public hearing. You would make

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a recommendation

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to the City Council. City Council would hold a public

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hearing and they would

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take final action on whatever's not resolved there.

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Commissioner Bec. Thank

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you Chair. Thanks Mr. Davis for explaining that but I'm

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still reading that like we

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can't if we can't get it in his amendment then we'll get it

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as an

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ordinance. So it suggests that the issue isn't resolved but

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we're gonna go ahead

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with it anyway as an ordinance and I misunderstand that. If

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we're not if the

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city still feels that a specific requirement that is being

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protested or

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not agreed to by the community and public at all. If we

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still feel that is

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the way that that is a requirement that's really necessary

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to protect the

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public health and welfare within the development community

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there then we

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would go back to come back to you for public hearing. You

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would hear our

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argument. You would hear the public's argument against that

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. The reasoning for

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that then you would make a recommendation to the City

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Council just

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like in a rezoning case you'll hear both sides of the

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argument like a

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recommendation. City Council would then hear both sides of

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the argument again

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and they would then take final action. Okay. So it's not an

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automatic it it

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basically provides for a a hearing type process there so

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that the public can be

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heard of why they feel that that is not a acceptable change

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there. But is there a

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chance then that this particular item that's being protest

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ed may not make it

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into the criteria manual? Yes sir. Okay. Okay. And not that

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I want to see that I just wanted to make that clear.

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All right. Thank you sir. You're welcome. That is the

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extent of my total

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presentation there. I have passed out to you at your places

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there summaries of

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the proposed changes for the water and wastewater and for

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the construction

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criteria manual there. I don't plan on going into any

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detail with those.

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Basically the proposed changes are updates to the manuals

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there that have

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already been in practice through the years there because

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things have

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changed since 2002 when these were last updated.

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Commissioner Mack. Again what I

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tended to see was we were just kind of looked like we were

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converting stuff to

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the digital age more so taking that things were going to be

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more online than

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hard copy stuff. That is a major part of it. That is not

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all of it. Over

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the years since 2002 when they were last updated a number

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of different pipe

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materials have changed. For example the current manual

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calls for an allowable

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material is cast iron pipe. I'm not sure that they even

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make cast iron pipes

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anymore. Today it's ductile iron pipe in providing for

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things like that. I'm

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sorry I don't recall the name of it but the predecessor to

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the Texas Conservation

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and Environmental Quality Commission I guess this TCEQ that

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's that old name is

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still in the manual and TCEQ is not there. The TCEQ rules

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and administrative

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rules have been updated over the years and we refer in some

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cases in the old

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manual to the old rule. This updates it and we've taken

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quite a bit of time to

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go back and cross reference and make sure that the

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references are correct now.

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There are some old charts there that we have pulled in the

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past from the TCEQ

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rules placed in there and they've been updated slightly

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there and we've placed

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new charts in the proposed amendments to the manual. Is it

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safe to say that for

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the future most piping is going to be a PVC material? It

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depends on what sizes and

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what type whether it's water or wastewater but smaller

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sizes I think it

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is. Okay so there might be some metal piping? Yes sir the

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larger pipes would be

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ductile iron and even some freeze-dressed concrete pipes

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there for the very large

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water transmission lines and even for the large wastewater

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lines there. Thank

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you. Sure. Commissioner Sullivan. I guess I'm a little

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concerned or I just don't

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know enough about water but it looks like on 3.5C water

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pipe shall be a

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minimum of now 8 inches in diameter used to be 6 inches in

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diameter. Yes sir.

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Again I don't know anything about the dynamics of water but

268
00:13:21,110 --> 00:13:21,799
anytime you

269
00:13:21,799 --> 00:13:25,509
increase diameter you're gonna decrease pressure. So how is

270
00:13:25,509 --> 00:13:27,000
this going to affect

271
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:32,500
water pressure at the hot you know at a person's faucet?

272
00:13:32,500 --> 00:13:34,120
That's... Hacks that will

273
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:38,700
enlarge the larger pipe will decrease the pressure loss

274
00:13:38,700 --> 00:13:39,840
there so the pressure

275
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:44,139
should be greater at the location there. So that if you

276
00:13:44,139 --> 00:13:45,720
replace or is this for a

277
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:50,720
new construction or if you come in and have to replace

278
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,200
there's a water line

279
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,019
break you know and so now you gotta come in and replace

280
00:13:55,019 --> 00:13:57,480
that pipe so is that that

281
00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,919
situation or if it's new construction that's going in? It's

282
00:14:00,919 --> 00:14:02,639
actually excuse me

283
00:14:02,639 --> 00:14:06,309
it's actually both if the city comes in and replaces a

284
00:14:06,309 --> 00:14:08,000
water line break and it's

285
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,720
just a short section and it's an existing six inch pipe

286
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,039
probably match it

287
00:14:13,039 --> 00:14:16,190
up. If we're going to replace an entire street length of it

288
00:14:16,190 --> 00:14:17,600
or block or so of it

289
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,320
it's most likely going to be the 8 inch pipe there. So if

290
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,000
you go from 6 inch to

291
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:28,190
8 inch how does that affect the pressure at the faucet? The

292
00:14:28,190 --> 00:14:29,440
pressure there

293
00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,740
should be depending on the length of it at all it actually

294
00:14:33,740 --> 00:14:34,919
theoretically should

295
00:14:34,919 --> 00:14:39,159
be a bit higher. The smaller the pipe the greater the

296
00:14:39,159 --> 00:14:41,879
pressure loss with the water

297
00:14:41,879 --> 00:14:44,879
going through it there. That's why I said I don't

298
00:14:44,879 --> 00:14:46,480
understand anything about water

299
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,940
so but it seems to me that you'd be having since you have

300
00:14:49,940 --> 00:14:51,159
more water going

301
00:14:51,159 --> 00:14:57,759
through increase the diameter that that is in the end

302
00:14:57,759 --> 00:15:00,200
result would decrease

303
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,519
pressure but what you're saying is actually would maintain

304
00:15:03,519 --> 00:15:04,480
or even increase

305
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,000
the pressure with the hydrant because you've got more fluid

306
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:07,960
going through a

307
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:13,000
bigger pipe. Yes sir and okay and the primary reason for

308
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,639
changing from minimum

309
00:15:14,639 --> 00:15:18,820
of 6 inch to 8 inch is fire fluid. Because I know when I

310
00:15:18,820 --> 00:15:19,919
put my finger over

311
00:15:19,919 --> 00:15:24,700
the half of the hose it goes a lot faster than if I'm you

312
00:15:24,700 --> 00:15:25,080
know that the

313
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:30,139
whole hose is open and so that's why it doesn't make sense.

314
00:15:30,139 --> 00:15:31,720
Yes sir. I don't

315
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:36,480
understand water. Thank you very much appreciate it.

316
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,789
John do you have a summary perhaps or something on the

317
00:15:41,789 --> 00:15:44,039
screen that you can show

318
00:15:44,039 --> 00:15:47,350
some of the strike through so that the Commission gets a

319
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:48,840
better feel on? Let's

320
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:56,240
see. If you have anything you can pull up. Superb. Yes as

321
00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:00,159
exhibits three and four to your

322
00:16:00,159 --> 00:16:06,080
agenda packages there we've provided the documents the

323
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,799
existing documents and the

324
00:16:07,799 --> 00:16:12,389
proposed changes in track changes format. Red lion edition

325
00:16:12,389 --> 00:16:15,200
underline red underline

326
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:21,649
and red strike through there and let's see if I can find.

327
00:16:21,649 --> 00:16:24,559
Uh oh let's see I will

328
00:16:24,559 --> 00:16:28,279
have to reload here for that one.

329
00:16:30,279 --> 00:16:35,360
And certainly if you as you're I really didn't expect you

330
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,159
to look over every one

331
00:16:38,159 --> 00:16:43,110
of these between the time we posted tonight and all or this

332
00:16:43,110 --> 00:16:44,360
evening but if

333
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:49,080
you as you have time or later you flip through it you don't

334
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:50,600
if you are having

335
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,909
trouble going to sleep at night you could read this look at

336
00:16:54,909 --> 00:16:55,840
it if you see

337
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,649
something you have a question about or that you have a

338
00:16:58,649 --> 00:16:59,759
concern about or you

339
00:16:59,759 --> 00:17:06,319
have any suggestions to improve it please we are here to.

340
00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:07,759
This is our work session.

341
00:17:07,759 --> 00:17:12,269
This is your work session yes. So I assumed we were going

342
00:17:12,269 --> 00:17:16,160
to go through the attachments but if we're not.

343
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,960
It would be wise to do that. Okay.

344
00:17:29,759 --> 00:17:35,759
Commissioner Sullivan.

345
00:17:45,759 --> 00:17:48,569
After I get through my password. Do we have your password

346
00:17:48,569 --> 00:17:51,759
so we can look at it? I'm kidding. Sure.

347
00:17:51,759 --> 00:17:57,960
Might as well. Somewhere there's a flash drive that I used

348
00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:59,759
to have floating

349
00:17:59,759 --> 00:18:04,759
around that I lost in the parking lot here. With a lot of

350
00:18:04,759 --> 00:18:08,259
information on it.

351
00:18:08,519 --> 00:18:14,759
That's why I have a password on this one. I understand.

352
00:18:21,759 --> 00:18:31,759
You can see the number of different

353
00:18:41,759 --> 00:18:48,579
different community design manuals we've accumulated and

354
00:18:48,579 --> 00:18:51,759
researched there to try to

355
00:18:51,759 --> 00:18:57,759
prepare our updates here as well as our current practices.

356
00:19:05,759 --> 00:19:13,759
What I'm looking at is 3.3.1 fire hydrant spacings. Yes sir

357
00:19:13,759 --> 00:19:13,759
.

358
00:19:15,759 --> 00:19:20,759
What is the new because it just you know chapter 29 of the

359
00:19:20,759 --> 00:19:23,759
city code and appendix B blah blah blah.

360
00:19:23,759 --> 00:19:27,910
So how does that change the distance from 600 feet in

361
00:19:27,910 --> 00:19:31,759
residential 300 in commercial industrial?

362
00:19:31,759 --> 00:19:36,950
What's the new number? It's the same number. It's just in a

363
00:19:36,950 --> 00:19:39,759
different location in the manual now.

364
00:19:39,759 --> 00:19:43,599
It's back in it's under a section called fire hydrant

365
00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:45,759
locations and coverage.

366
00:19:45,759 --> 00:19:49,130
Gotcha. So instead of having a specified number you're just

367
00:19:49,130 --> 00:19:51,759
using that so in the event that that changes then

368
00:19:51,759 --> 00:19:59,000
y'all can change with it as it goes. Yes sir. Gotcha. Thank

369
00:19:59,000 --> 00:19:59,759
you.

370
00:20:02,759 --> 00:20:09,420
Let's see is that it's a bit large there. Let's see if I

371
00:20:09,420 --> 00:20:10,759
can.

372
00:20:10,759 --> 00:20:16,759
3.17 is fire hydrant. Commissioner Beck. Thank you chair.

373
00:20:30,759 --> 00:20:35,839
Question for you. Yes sir. Way back there. On page nine of

374
00:20:35,839 --> 00:20:38,759
our handout water design guidelines

375
00:20:38,759 --> 00:20:45,759
3.1 general. You eliminated a couple of documents you

376
00:20:45,759 --> 00:20:46,759
struck through.

377
00:20:46,759 --> 00:20:52,069
Are they no longer one of them was the rules and

378
00:20:52,069 --> 00:20:54,759
regulations for public water systems established by the

379
00:20:54,759 --> 00:20:54,759
Texas

380
00:20:54,759 --> 00:20:58,309
Natural Resources Conservation Commission and it was

381
00:20:58,309 --> 00:21:00,759
eliminated for water and wastewater.

382
00:21:00,759 --> 00:21:06,259
This looked like a pretty good document. So I'm just

383
00:21:06,259 --> 00:21:08,759
curious are these outdated now?

384
00:21:08,759 --> 00:21:13,200
Are the ones that you're keeping or putting in, do they

385
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,759
cover the areas of the ones you struck out?

386
00:21:16,759 --> 00:21:22,180
Yes sir we've struck out the ones that are outdated and for

387
00:21:22,180 --> 00:21:26,759
example the north central Texas

388
00:21:26,759 --> 00:21:29,769
before it simply said north central Texas standard

389
00:21:29,769 --> 00:21:33,759
specifications is actually the north central Texas council

390
00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:34,759
governments.

391
00:21:34,759 --> 00:21:42,049
The NCD COG standard specifications there. The city of Dent

392
00:21:42,049 --> 00:21:46,759
on's water wastewater plan we've added and this entire

393
00:21:46,759 --> 00:21:51,390
reference section here for wastewater has the same for

394
00:21:51,390 --> 00:21:55,759
water we have updated there. I'm sorry this is for water.

395
00:21:55,759 --> 00:22:00,730
We've updated that you see here we've updated it to refer

396
00:22:00,730 --> 00:22:04,759
to TCEQ rules the Texas administrative code.

397
00:22:04,759 --> 00:22:09,940
This manual and the city standard details appendix of

398
00:22:09,940 --> 00:22:13,759
course when this was done in 2002 we didn't have the

399
00:22:13,759 --> 00:22:14,759
current fire code we're

400
00:22:14,759 --> 00:22:19,069
operating under which is the 2012 fire code. So the

401
00:22:19,069 --> 00:22:22,759
references throughout are now to the appropriate sections

402
00:22:22,759 --> 00:22:23,759
of the 2012

403
00:22:23,759 --> 00:22:28,220
fire code and this is typical of the amendments throughout

404
00:22:28,220 --> 00:22:35,750
the document there with additions being in red underlying

405
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:41,759
and the deletions being in red strike through.

406
00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:46,420
The water main separation we have taken that from the

407
00:22:46,420 --> 00:22:51,690
current TCEQ administrative code which we're all required

408
00:22:51,690 --> 00:22:55,740
to do that we this city are required to maintain and follow

409
00:22:55,740 --> 00:22:55,759
.

410
00:22:55,759 --> 00:23:01,259
We've also referenced that here and under the wastewater

411
00:23:01,259 --> 00:23:06,099
section section four we actually reproduce those

412
00:23:06,099 --> 00:23:11,910
requirements from TCEQ's administrative rules there so that

413
00:23:11,910 --> 00:23:13,769
the applicant or the design engineer doesn't have to turn

414
00:23:13,769 --> 00:23:17,420
around and every time they're looking for something go back

415
00:23:17,420 --> 00:23:20,759
go to the web and find that.

416
00:23:20,759 --> 00:23:24,289
It's probably safe to say that the documents you eliminated

417
00:23:24,289 --> 00:23:27,410
you kept the applicable stuff in it in other forms and

418
00:23:27,410 --> 00:23:30,759
other documents. Yes sir. Okay. Okay. It's updated.

419
00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:35,059
What you will find also if you compare it page by page

420
00:23:35,059 --> 00:23:39,759
between this proposal amendment in the existing the old

421
00:23:39,759 --> 00:23:44,660
manual if you will the existing manual, you will find that

422
00:23:44,660 --> 00:23:49,160
I have not shown and track changes because it would get

423
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,759
quite lengthy and quite cumbersome to try to even follow it

424
00:23:53,759 --> 00:23:53,759
.

425
00:23:53,759 --> 00:24:00,000
If it referred to an office that's no longer in the city

426
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,339
that we don't call it that office anymore. We call it

427
00:24:03,339 --> 00:24:06,799
something else for example, engineering department is

428
00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:10,390
referred to in the current manual, there is no engineering

429
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:13,789
department anymore it's capital improvement engineering

430
00:24:13,789 --> 00:24:15,759
division.

431
00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:32,759
So those changes have been made. And they're not shown as

432
00:24:32,759 --> 00:24:32,759
track changes there so that cleans up better and you can

433
00:24:32,759 --> 00:24:32,759
follow the changes and see the real changes that have

434
00:24:32,759 --> 00:24:32,759
better significant changes if you will.

435
00:24:32,759 --> 00:24:35,759
Moving on to page 28.

436
00:24:35,759 --> 00:24:39,759
We talked about most of the pipes being PVC. Yes sir.

437
00:24:39,759 --> 00:24:45,759
Page 2802.

438
00:24:45,759 --> 00:24:49,200
It talks about wastewater collection system pipe that

439
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,720
crosses above a water supply pipe must be constructed at

440
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,539
least 150 psi pressure class corrosion resistant non

441
00:24:56,539 --> 00:24:57,759
brittle pipe.

442
00:24:57,759 --> 00:25:13,789
PVC is really takes a long time for it to do that. It has

443
00:25:13,789 --> 00:25:14,099
like a 50 year life, but is that would that be an area

444
00:25:14,099 --> 00:25:14,390
where you come in with metal, then if you've got to use a

445
00:25:14,390 --> 00:25:16,990
non brittle. No sir, PVC is a pliable type pipe, if it's

446
00:25:16,990 --> 00:25:20,279
underground, if it's above ground, then it does become

447
00:25:20,279 --> 00:25:21,759
brittle there.

448
00:25:21,759 --> 00:25:28,319
We used to call it ultraviolet degradation. Right, right.

449
00:25:28,319 --> 00:25:30,089
So see it becomes brittle and crack when exposed to ultra

450
00:25:30,089 --> 00:25:32,099
violet light exposure, cold temperatures, age and chemical

451
00:25:32,099 --> 00:25:32,759
exposure.

452
00:25:32,759 --> 00:25:37,259
So, age would be one thing I believe it's set under the

453
00:25:37,259 --> 00:25:40,759
right conditions, it has a life duration of about 50 years,

454
00:25:40,759 --> 00:25:43,759
which is a good long time.

455
00:25:43,759 --> 00:25:46,759
But it can become brittle.

456
00:25:46,759 --> 00:25:53,529
Yes sir. It's generally referring to other pipes cast iron

457
00:25:53,529 --> 00:25:55,759
pipe and some other types of pipes.

458
00:25:55,759 --> 00:25:57,759
The comment about non brittle.

459
00:25:57,759 --> 00:25:59,759
Yes sir.

460
00:25:59,759 --> 00:26:03,759
The cast iron pipes are brittle.

461
00:26:03,759 --> 00:26:07,460
There are some old one forgotten that the asphalt impregn

462
00:26:07,460 --> 00:26:11,170
ated pipes were brittle when they were placed in there, I

463
00:26:11,170 --> 00:26:14,730
wouldn't no longer even use those. They're no longer

464
00:26:14,730 --> 00:26:18,279
allowed in the under the plumbing code for services and

465
00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:22,759
that's the way they were used in the

466
00:26:22,759 --> 00:26:25,759
john 60s and early 70s.

467
00:26:25,759 --> 00:26:28,269
Can we start just kind of at the beginning and I think if

468
00:26:28,269 --> 00:26:30,839
we've got questions as we go through if we get to the page

469
00:26:30,839 --> 00:26:33,430
and you've got a question on we can go that but everybody

470
00:26:33,430 --> 00:26:36,390
gets an opportunity to just kind of go start to finish and

471
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:39,509
those that are watching and everything else can keep up

472
00:26:39,509 --> 00:26:41,759
with us.

473
00:26:41,759 --> 00:26:47,759
You see that there are lines on the right hand side here.

474
00:26:47,759 --> 00:26:57,779
It was my rat seems to be acting up here. So that would be

475
00:26:57,779 --> 00:27:05,730
indicative of some editorial changes or formatting changes

476
00:27:05,730 --> 00:27:06,759
here in it.

477
00:27:06,759 --> 00:27:10,839
The preliminary design section that's in the old section

478
00:27:10,839 --> 00:27:15,000
there is really applicable only to city projects, these

479
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,240
manuals are applicable both city projects and development

480
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:20,759
projects there.

481
00:27:20,759 --> 00:27:27,759
So we've come in and indicated that in this section here.

482
00:27:27,759 --> 00:27:33,329
As you so aptly pointed out earlier, we've indicated

483
00:27:33,329 --> 00:27:38,759
electronic folders and filing systems and all here.

484
00:27:38,759 --> 00:27:41,759
Internal coordination, Commissioner Ellis.

485
00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:42,759
Sorry chair.

486
00:27:42,759 --> 00:27:45,680
So, I know you're saying you're clarifying applicable only

487
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:48,400
to city projects. Is that how it always was and we just

488
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:49,759
need to put that in there.

489
00:27:49,759 --> 00:27:50,759
Yes.

490
00:27:50,759 --> 00:27:51,759
Okay.

491
00:27:51,759 --> 00:27:56,339
So, I do in a later section, indicate to development

492
00:27:56,339 --> 00:28:01,359
engineers that they might also want to review this section

493
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:06,180
in order to determine some of the agencies they probably

494
00:28:06,180 --> 00:28:11,759
should coordinate with, like some of the external utilities

495
00:28:11,759 --> 00:28:14,759
on their projects.

496
00:28:14,759 --> 00:28:18,910
Here you'll see a typical engineering capital projects

497
00:28:18,910 --> 00:28:23,130
administrator, there is no such position anymore is now

498
00:28:23,130 --> 00:28:25,759
director of capital projects.

499
00:28:25,759 --> 00:28:32,750
Again, name changes some additional positions in their

500
00:28:32,750 --> 00:28:39,609
engineering development review that reviews these and

501
00:28:39,609 --> 00:28:46,579
suggested of what should be done to coordinate with those

502
00:28:46,579 --> 00:28:48,759
people there.

503
00:28:48,759 --> 00:28:56,759
This was an old form that's in the existing manual.

504
00:28:56,759 --> 00:29:02,299
And here was what we indicate that the email communication

505
00:29:02,299 --> 00:29:05,759
should include record research.

506
00:29:05,759 --> 00:29:10,759
We have GIS maps now. We didn't have them at 2002.

507
00:29:10,759 --> 00:29:14,390
We suggest some surface utility engineering firms be

508
00:29:14,390 --> 00:29:18,259
considered for those projects those are the ones that you

509
00:29:18,259 --> 00:29:22,299
see out in the roadway, digging, we call them potholes jet

510
00:29:22,299 --> 00:29:25,799
ting small holes into the pavement or ground there to

511
00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:31,759
determine exact locations and depths of utilities there.

512
00:29:31,759 --> 00:29:35,759
And then we've updated the utility companies here.

513
00:29:35,759 --> 00:29:36,759
Commissioner Ellis.

514
00:29:36,759 --> 00:29:37,759
Yes ma'am.

515
00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:38,759
Thank you, Chair.

516
00:29:38,759 --> 00:29:41,319
We have a charter now called spectrum. That was my question

517
00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:41,759
on that one.

518
00:29:41,759 --> 00:29:44,759
I don't know that there is a charter anymore.

519
00:29:44,759 --> 00:29:46,759
I think it's called spectrum.

520
00:29:46,759 --> 00:29:47,759
Okay, good.

521
00:29:47,759 --> 00:29:49,759
Thank you.

522
00:29:49,759 --> 00:30:14,759
Shows you up to date I am.

523
00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:16,759
Commissioner was oh.

524
00:30:16,759 --> 00:30:20,069
Is there any flexibility to the utility companies to be

525
00:30:20,069 --> 00:30:24,289
contacted I mean it seems like there could be the addition

526
00:30:24,289 --> 00:30:25,759
of subtraction.

527
00:30:25,759 --> 00:30:26,759
Fluidly.

528
00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:33,140
How does that work. If, if charter changes his name, or we

529
00:30:33,140 --> 00:30:37,720
get another cable provider besides frontier communications,

530
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,759
does this have to be amended.

531
00:30:39,759 --> 00:30:43,829
Just trying to list the ones that are current there. The

532
00:30:43,829 --> 00:30:48,329
last listing here you see is Texas 811, which is the call

533
00:30:48,329 --> 00:30:52,579
before you dig. So that's going to if there are other

534
00:30:52,579 --> 00:30:57,460
utilities, maybe there are private utilities in that area,

535
00:30:57,460 --> 00:31:00,759
then hopefully that's going to catch those.

536
00:31:00,759 --> 00:31:04,849
And we failed to advise you earlier, our intent in the

537
00:31:04,849 --> 00:31:09,490
future. Once we update these manuals is to update them once

538
00:31:09,490 --> 00:31:13,750
a year annually in the same sequence that we're updating

539
00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:17,539
them now so that they don't become so obsolete with

540
00:31:17,539 --> 00:31:24,759
outdated company names as you pointed out.

541
00:31:24,759 --> 00:31:27,500
John on that will go through the same press process

542
00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:30,799
annually so you'll present, just like you're doing now send

543
00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:33,390
it out for public comment if there isn't any it's

544
00:31:33,390 --> 00:31:36,759
automatically adopted if there is work through those.

545
00:31:36,759 --> 00:31:42,140
Yes, sir. That'd be the problem. That's the, that's the

546
00:31:42,140 --> 00:31:46,900
only way currently that the manuals can be updated or

547
00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:47,759
changed.

548
00:31:47,759 --> 00:31:52,390
And then it gets into the specifics of the water design

549
00:31:52,390 --> 00:31:56,920
guidelines that we looked at earlier, updating the

550
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:03,319
references for it, updating the water separation from the

551
00:32:03,319 --> 00:32:04,759
water mains.

552
00:32:04,759 --> 00:32:07,759
Commissioner Beck. I have a question here.

553
00:32:07,759 --> 00:32:12,430
To 3.3, it's on page 10 of our supplement on B, says every

554
00:32:12,430 --> 00:32:16,410
new water system should include two or more connections to

555
00:32:16,410 --> 00:32:20,240
the existing city water system and feasible to ensure an

556
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,390
adequate and reliable water supply they've been water main

557
00:32:24,390 --> 00:32:29,759
break or routine system maintenance.

558
00:32:29,759 --> 00:32:38,759
Can you explain how that works? Yes, sir.

559
00:32:38,759 --> 00:32:41,759
Think of.

560
00:32:41,759 --> 00:32:46,759
Let's take, for example, you're familiar with the.

561
00:32:46,759 --> 00:32:51,490
It's not razor ranch but the one on the north side of us 3

562
00:32:51,490 --> 00:32:56,900
80 the commercial development there marketplace, where

563
00:32:56,900 --> 00:33:00,759
Walmart and Sam's Club and everything is.

564
00:33:00,759 --> 00:33:10,529
Listen, if they came in and just tied into the water system

565
00:33:10,529 --> 00:33:19,759
on the westerly side of that long development there.

566
00:33:19,759 --> 00:33:27,559
Development to the city's main or to the city's main along

567
00:33:27,559 --> 00:33:31,130
us 380 there. There'd be without fire flow protection and

568
00:33:31,130 --> 00:33:31,609
without potable water. So they put one further down the

569
00:33:31,609 --> 00:33:36,349
line. If you, if they were to connect twice at least one on

570
00:33:36,349 --> 00:33:39,759
the westerly side and one on the eastern side, perhaps

571
00:33:39,759 --> 00:33:43,759
along.

572
00:33:43,759 --> 00:33:49,759
Bonnie Bray Road there, then they could have redundancy.

573
00:33:49,759 --> 00:33:54,059
They would also have more a better fire flow pressure there

574
00:33:54,059 --> 00:33:58,759
through it and provide pressure for the development there.

575
00:33:58,759 --> 00:34:04,259
They also have a better, more reliable fire flow there for

576
00:34:04,259 --> 00:34:09,760
it in case one went down, or if they had something, a fire.

577
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,989
They don't, but if they did, if they were pumping only from

578
00:34:13,989 --> 00:34:18,050
one supply pipe into it, they could pull that down pretty

579
00:34:18,050 --> 00:34:22,030
fast. If they're pumping from to supply points into it, and

580
00:34:22,030 --> 00:34:25,760
they've got much better pressure and more water volume.

581
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,070
So would this be something that is more have to be used on

582
00:34:29,070 --> 00:34:32,250
commercial developments or is this something we'd see in

583
00:34:32,250 --> 00:34:35,780
residential areas commercial and larger residential areas.

584
00:34:35,780 --> 00:34:37,760
Yes, sir.

585
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:42,420
You might have an apartment complex with several apartments

586
00:34:42,420 --> 00:34:46,730
in it and all these story buildings there that might need

587
00:34:46,730 --> 00:34:49,760
to have to water connections there.

588
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:50,760
Thank you.

589
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,760
Sure.

590
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:59,039
We also over the years have standardized the water service

591
00:34:59,039 --> 00:35:03,070
sizes for the different sizes of water meters and those

592
00:35:03,070 --> 00:35:07,760
water meters we've inserted that portion in this area here.

593
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,309
We've been using that for quite some time. It's just not in

594
00:35:12,309 --> 00:35:13,760
the manual.

595
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:18,840
This way, new development engineers coming in from out of

596
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:23,840
the area can see fairly quickly what the requirements are

597
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:24,760
there.

598
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:38,650
And here was the change from the six inch lowest size

599
00:35:38,650 --> 00:35:47,760
standard pipe to eight inches. We still indicate that six

600
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:47,760
inch could be used for fire hydrant connections and short

601
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:47,760
dead end mains for a short cul-de-sac or something with

602
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:47,760
limited service connections.

603
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:58,760
The appendix B of the 2012 International Fire Code.

604
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:03,460
A duplication in the area here here to show you how old it

605
00:36:03,460 --> 00:36:08,570
is special and unique exceptions to the above standards may

606
00:36:08,570 --> 00:36:13,079
be paid by the planning and zoning Commission have to

607
00:36:13,079 --> 00:36:17,760
recommendation from the public utilities board.

608
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,760
Well, that's no longer the adapt that you've ever seen one.

609
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:27,199
It's actually the director of water utilities that makes it

610
00:36:27,199 --> 00:36:28,760
fire hydrant spacing.

611
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:29,760
Commissioner Beck.

612
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,190
Well, I was going to wait till I got a 3.3 point three

613
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:33,760
there.

614
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:38,250
Okay, fire hydrant spacing here has been moved down to a

615
00:36:38,250 --> 00:36:43,159
lower section there, and it still remains to be 600 in

616
00:36:43,159 --> 00:36:47,760
residential and 300 and industrial commercial.

617
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:48,760
Public fire hydrant.

618
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,760
Commissioner Sullivan.

619
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:54,760
Any reason for the difference between 600 and 500.

620
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,760
600 and 300.

621
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:02,760
Well, I mean, you know, 600 in residential area, so I know

622
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,760
from an insurance standpoint 500 gives you a better rate.

623
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,469
And so I'm just wondering why the city have a 600 foot

624
00:37:10,469 --> 00:37:12,760
rather than the 500 foot.

625
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:18,050
If they're spaced 600 feet apart, then the further you can

626
00:37:18,050 --> 00:37:19,760
be as 300 feet.

627
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:24,760
Exactly. That's why you're here and I'm not there.

628
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,760
You've got a tougher job than I do.

629
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,760
Appreciate that. Thank you. I didn't think about that.

630
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,760
Thank you.

631
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:38,030
Again, reference to the 2012 the update for the code here

632
00:37:38,030 --> 00:37:40,760
for the 2012 area here.

633
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,760
2012 International Fire Code. Yes, sir.

634
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:48,199
3.3 point three. If a fire flow test on the existing water

635
00:37:48,199 --> 00:37:49,760
system is necessary. Yes, sir.

636
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:55,760
The water utilities. Okay. Who determines this?

637
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,760
Fire flow test.

638
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,190
That's going to be basically determine what if the city

639
00:38:01,190 --> 00:38:04,769
doesn't have the detailed information available at that

640
00:38:04,769 --> 00:38:08,760
time if they haven't run a fire flow test in that area.

641
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,400
If the mechanical engineer of the buildings that are

642
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,400
building it that are designing the fire protection there

643
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,010
say hey we need a fire flow test to make sure that we're

644
00:38:20,010 --> 00:38:23,760
going to design the sprinkler system properly here.

645
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,760
Jim.

646
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,760
Anything else you can think of.

647
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:33,570
Jim jinx is our manager of development review and deals

648
00:38:33,570 --> 00:38:36,760
with these things on a daily basis.

649
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,070
The private sector as well as somebody in city planning can

650
00:38:40,070 --> 00:38:42,760
determine this.

651
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,489
Well, we often get requests from developers engineers for

652
00:38:46,489 --> 00:38:49,900
fire flow tests and with these we go out and for I believe

653
00:38:49,900 --> 00:38:51,760
it's still for no charge.

654
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,710
We go out and open up a hydrant put a meter on it actually

655
00:38:54,710 --> 00:38:56,760
see what comes out of the hydrant.

656
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,269
And we can kind of extrapolate it down to you know minimum

657
00:39:00,269 --> 00:39:03,789
pressure what would be that way like John was saying they

658
00:39:03,789 --> 00:39:07,320
can helps give them information where they can properly

659
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,760
size their fire protection systems.

660
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,789
The fire flow test measures flow available flow, and it

661
00:39:13,789 --> 00:39:17,949
measures pressure there, and we really want to run those

662
00:39:17,949 --> 00:39:21,769
over a period of time so that we can tell during the peak

663
00:39:21,769 --> 00:39:25,929
demand times where the pressure will be the lowest in that

664
00:39:25,929 --> 00:39:30,090
area was the lowest so that the mechanical engineer can

665
00:39:30,090 --> 00:39:35,250
design his or her fire flow fire protection system for the

666
00:39:35,250 --> 00:39:38,210
lowest pressure that's available in the lowest flow that's

667
00:39:38,210 --> 00:39:38,760
available there.

668
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,760
When you say floor talking about volume volume yes okay.

669
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,760
Commissioner Sullivan.

670
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,719
What is the pressure rate at the flow rate but the pressure

671
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:53,010
what you know in that test. What's the minimum what's the

672
00:39:53,010 --> 00:39:55,760
maximum that you're looking for.

673
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,130
Most of our pressures in the city I think are in the

674
00:39:59,130 --> 00:40:02,760
neighborhood of 40 to 50 psi or more.

675
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:10,980
Yes, the. I believe with the fire for the TC the state TCEQ

676
00:40:10,980 --> 00:40:13,849
requires that during fire flow events that system pressure

677
00:40:13,849 --> 00:40:15,760
be maintained at least 20 psi.

678
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,760
And oftentimes when these fire flow tests are done.

679
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,579
We will suppose to do it to where you you flow enough water

680
00:40:22,579 --> 00:40:27,050
to get a 10% or a 10 psi drop in pressure, you can actually

681
00:40:27,050 --> 00:40:31,059
extrapolate mathematically down to project what what the

682
00:40:31,059 --> 00:40:32,760
flow rate would be.

683
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,760
If you got all the way down to 20 psi.

684
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:49,449
Thank you. In fact, when we design water systems, we want

685
00:40:49,449 --> 00:40:50,210
to design so that the minimum pressure for our house or

686
00:40:50,210 --> 00:40:51,119
residents for building is 20 psi we prefer it to be higher,

687
00:40:51,119 --> 00:40:51,760
but we never want it to be below 20.

688
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,760
35, according to the state.

689
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,760
Okay, absolute minimum during normal operation.

690
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:02,760
Most of our system pressures are in the 40 to 80 psi range.

691
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:07,760
Thank you.

692
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:12,199
We were a bit we were a bit more likes in Florida where you

693
00:41:12,199 --> 00:41:15,760
don't have near the hills that we have here.

694
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:26,320
A change in 3.5 just add in fittings here, because our

695
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:39,760
table now we've deleted the old table.

696
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:45,760
The pipe gasket material.

697
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:51,170
And we've indicated we've inserted charts 3.5 dash one or

698
00:41:51,170 --> 00:41:53,760
tables 3.5 dash one.

699
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,760
We've also this is throughout the manual.

700
00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:00,619
We've taken and we refer to instead of a number of the old

701
00:42:00,619 --> 00:42:04,780
drawings that were in the existing manual, we refer to our

702
00:42:04,780 --> 00:42:08,840
standard detail sheets and we refer to the drawing number

703
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:13,760
on those standard detail sheets here on sheet three of the

704
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:18,760
city standard details.

705
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:25,500
We refer that all fittings of show have restrained joints,

706
00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:31,760
mechanically restrained in addition to thrust blocks.

707
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:37,829
We have updated our meters and meter can vaults information

708
00:42:37,829 --> 00:42:38,760
here.

709
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:47,489
Here's the current minimum requirements for pipe and fitt

710
00:42:47,489 --> 00:42:52,150
ings, the different sizes, the materials, the mechanical the

711
00:42:52,150 --> 00:42:56,139
fittings, what type of in the pipe embedment there are

712
00:42:56,139 --> 00:43:00,300
trench that you can lay it in the thrust restraints and all

713
00:43:00,300 --> 00:43:04,760
here for the different pipes all the way up above, even

714
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,760
including above 30 inch.

715
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:24,760
We've updated our information on the acceptable meters.

716
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:32,010
And the city provides those meters there, based on the taps

717
00:43:32,010 --> 00:43:37,760
in the requirements by the design engineer.

718
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:46,829
These require vaults concrete vaults for meters larger than

719
00:43:46,829 --> 00:43:55,179
two inch, so that you can access them and be able to get in

720
00:43:55,179 --> 00:44:00,760
them and repair them or replace them.

721
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:05,010
Here we indicate the mechanical, MEP, mechanical,

722
00:44:05,010 --> 00:44:09,400
electrical and plumbing engineers should identify the

723
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:14,150
proposed sizes and location for the domestic water meters,

724
00:44:14,150 --> 00:44:17,760
fire connections and irrigation meters.

725
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:25,400
We also provide the table from the group provide a table

726
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:30,550
here for them from the 2012 International Plumbing Code so

727
00:44:30,550 --> 00:44:33,760
they can use that to size their meters.

728
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:49,019
We also indicate down here. There's a table in here now

729
00:44:49,019 --> 00:44:49,460
that indicates what your work that your tap fee is going to

730
00:44:49,460 --> 00:44:49,760
be our impact fee I'm sorry.

731
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,760
So this information is all updated here.

732
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:59,760
Just simply requiring that water meters and cans and vaults

733
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:05,409
be placed within the city right away. Some people think

734
00:45:05,409 --> 00:45:09,760
they can place it out outside the right away.

735
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:15,760
Again references to the standard detail sheets.

736
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:20,050
And here's the table from the International Plumbing Code

737
00:45:20,050 --> 00:45:24,250
meter size the distribution pipe size, the service pipe

738
00:45:24,250 --> 00:45:28,539
there from the main to the meter in the maximum development

739
00:45:28,539 --> 00:45:29,760
link there.

740
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:39,369
It will show the minimum size of the water meter required

741
00:45:39,369 --> 00:45:40,760
for that.

742
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:46,519
And there are several pages of that chart that one comes

743
00:45:46,519 --> 00:45:51,760
straight out of the International Plumbing Code.

744
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,760
Then a sample.

745
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,760
Jim what's WSF you mean now.

746
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,760
I think of it as a service fixture unit.

747
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:01,760
Okay.

748
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:06,760
I think of it as if issues radio station.

749
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,760
A table here that we asked that they prepare.

750
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,820
We provide them a sample. We asked that they prepare this

751
00:46:14,820 --> 00:46:18,500
so that we can then tell they can tell and we can tell what

752
00:46:18,500 --> 00:46:22,360
their total fixture units for that development is planned

753
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,760
to be that ties into the plumbing code.

754
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:31,760
That fixture unit.

755
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:39,760
It's it can be converted to a flow value for sizing.

756
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:45,260
Here we've added added a table for the single family

757
00:46:45,260 --> 00:46:50,320
equivalents for the meter sizes and caution them that you

758
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,880
know you don't really want to just go out and say well if a

759
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:59,289
one inch meter would do me then I want a two inch meter so

760
00:46:59,289 --> 00:47:00,760
it'd be better.

761
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:06,260
Well if that happens then you go from a one inch meter of

762
00:47:06,260 --> 00:47:10,699
two and a half times the standard impact fee for single

763
00:47:10,699 --> 00:47:15,179
family residents to eight times that impact fee, which

764
00:47:15,179 --> 00:47:21,760
becomes a three times as large of an impact fee.

765
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:26,760
And some people don't realize that.

766
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:33,760
And some way I have gotten this chart in between.

767
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:41,809
The other chart. I thought the other one was fairly short

768
00:47:41,809 --> 00:47:42,760
there.

769
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,760
And we get back beyond that.

770
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:52,760
We indicate about high highway crossings.

771
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,809
Contact the, we just say that caution them that sometimes

772
00:47:56,809 --> 00:48:00,980
our criteria is more stringent than the highway department

773
00:48:00,980 --> 00:48:01,760
there.

774
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:06,760
Road crossings.

775
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:11,400
Boring and jacking, tunneling, here requiring that all

776
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,860
carrier pipes, that's the pipe inside the cased casing

777
00:48:15,860 --> 00:48:20,510
there, the jacked casing, the pipe inside is the carrier

778
00:48:20,510 --> 00:48:24,760
casing, the outside pipe is the casing itself.

779
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:25,760
Commissioner Beck.

780
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:26,760
Thank you chair.

781
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:27,760
Yeah question on that.

782
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:28,760
Okay.

783
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:30,760
What have you got?

784
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:34,070
Two different materials, you got the carrier pipe being one

785
00:48:34,070 --> 00:48:37,139
material and the casing being another material or can it

786
00:48:37,139 --> 00:48:38,760
both be the same material?

787
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,760
Generally the carrier pipe is a steel pipe.

788
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:47,260
And normally water line pipes are either ductile, PVC, or

789
00:48:47,260 --> 00:48:49,760
some other.

790
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:51,760
These are water supply lines or wastewater?

791
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:56,199
These are water, in this particular case this is water

792
00:48:56,199 --> 00:48:57,760
supply line here.

793
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,760
And later in section four we get into wastewater.

794
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,760
So why would you have a water supply line in casing?

795
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,269
Because aren't in the casing in the event that something

796
00:49:07,269 --> 00:49:08,760
breaks you will not?

797
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:13,730
Well most of the time the casing is used to get under a

798
00:49:13,730 --> 00:49:17,760
main road like University Boulevard.

799
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,079
The state's not going to let us go out and cut University

800
00:49:21,079 --> 00:49:22,760
Boulevard anytime soon.

801
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:26,460
It wouldn't be very smart to try to do it anyway with all

802
00:49:26,460 --> 00:49:27,760
that traffic.

803
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:32,940
So you go and you would dig a pit on one side, jack and

804
00:49:32,940 --> 00:49:36,760
bore a casing underneath it.

805
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,719
If it's for a 12 inch then it's probably going to be

806
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:45,239
somewhere in the neighborhood of a 20 to 24 inch steel

807
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,760
casing for a 12 inch line.

808
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:52,480
You'd bore that underneath there and then slide the carrier

809
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:55,760
pipe through it and then connect on the other side.

810
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,829
And this requires here that they're going to be installed

811
00:49:59,829 --> 00:50:03,760
by the pipe manufacturers depending on whether it's PVC,

812
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,760
ductile, or some other type.

813
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,280
Whatever the pipe manufacturer recommends for that

814
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:14,760
connections there, installation and connections.

815
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:19,300
And that they're going to be supported with approved spac

816
00:50:19,300 --> 00:50:20,760
ers in the pipe.

817
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:25,760
It's not going to sit right on the casing itself.

818
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:30,760
And then if you depending on it we may pay extra.

819
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:35,760
The city may decide to pay extra to have a larger casing

820
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,760
and maybe it's a 12 inch pipe down.

821
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:44,760
And then later we go to an 18 or something.

822
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:45,760
Yes sir.

823
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:50,420
You can do that without boring and casing in or digging up

824
00:50:50,420 --> 00:50:51,760
the roadway.

825
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:58,239
Particularly on a railroad that's the only way they'll let

826
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,760
you cross their track there.

827
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:08,809
References to other sections here regarding air relief

828
00:51:08,809 --> 00:51:09,760
valves.

829
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:15,510
Requiring valves on each side of the crossing there in case

830
00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:18,760
something happens to a crossing.

831
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:26,090
Here we know about them and the local community knows about

832
00:51:26,090 --> 00:51:28,760
them but we have pressure zones in the city.

833
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,760
Jim, we have four?

834
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:32,760
Three.

835
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:33,760
Three?

836
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:34,760
Okay.

837
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:37,760
Three different pressure zones in the city and all of that.

838
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:41,170
When you connect between those it'll be maybe a higher

839
00:51:41,170 --> 00:51:44,760
pressure here and a lower pressure here in this area,

840
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:45,760
geographic area.

841
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,840
But when you connect between the two you have to have a

842
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,320
pressure reducing valve there to be able to equalize the

843
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:52,760
pressure.

844
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:57,579
And keep from dropping the pressure and one or raising in

845
00:51:57,579 --> 00:51:58,760
the other.

846
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:04,760
Because of the topography difference within town.

847
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:10,760
And here's where we refer them to that requirement there.

848
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:16,059
That it may require a pressure reducing valve depending on

849
00:52:16,059 --> 00:52:17,760
the situation.

850
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:26,760
Again, references to the drawings and the standard details.

851
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,760
Section on valves.

852
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:34,750
I didn't, I could have, this is a typical thing that I

853
00:52:34,750 --> 00:52:37,760
would have shown as not having changed.

854
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:41,760
Changing the word valving to valves.

855
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,760
But I didn't in this case.

856
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:49,809
This section, a more detailed section about the location of

857
00:52:49,809 --> 00:52:50,760
valves.

858
00:52:50,760 --> 00:53:03,760
Where we require those and where they need to be placed.

859
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,760
More references to the drawings.

860
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:12,940
Here's valve requirements, the types that we require for

861
00:53:12,940 --> 00:53:14,760
the different sizes.

862
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:23,760
And the orientation and the types of operators there.

863
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:28,760
Section on air release valves.

864
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:35,389
In some cases for 12 inches and below we may not require an

865
00:53:35,389 --> 00:53:37,760
air release valve.

866
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:41,539
If there's going to be a fire hydrant near there, the fire

867
00:53:41,539 --> 00:53:43,760
hydrant will be used for that.

868
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:50,789
And depending if it's not a large difference, a large peak

869
00:53:50,789 --> 00:53:54,760
or a large hill that's going over.

870
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,849
Air in water lines causes water hammer that you've noticed

871
00:53:58,849 --> 00:54:02,760
at your home when you turn off something.

872
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:06,760
A faucet fast, it dun dun dun dun dun dun type thing.

873
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:11,760
That's the water hammer from air in the water line there.

874
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:16,239
It's annoying at the house and it could be costly if it

875
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:17,760
breaks a line.

876
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:22,880
If it's in a 24 inch transmission line or something or 18

877
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:27,750
inch water supply line, it can be really bad there and

878
00:54:27,750 --> 00:54:31,760
cause a lot of cost.

879
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:36,760
Dead end mains, we prefer not to have dead end mains.

880
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:40,989
Here we require fire hydrants at the end of those dead end

881
00:54:40,989 --> 00:54:41,760
mains.

882
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:46,900
If a water line runs out in dead ends, if there are not a

883
00:54:46,900 --> 00:54:51,690
lot of services on that water line there, on that section

884
00:54:51,690 --> 00:54:54,760
of the water line, the dead end water line there,

885
00:54:54,760 --> 00:55:00,300
then that water can become stagnant over a period of time

886
00:55:00,300 --> 00:55:06,079
and become environmentally bad, if you will, biologically

887
00:55:06,079 --> 00:55:06,760
bad.

888
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,760
So we require fire hydrants on the end of it there.

889
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,760
We would discourage them, but if you have to have them.

890
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,760
And then here's the fire hydrant location and coverage.

891
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:24,760
Same thing that we had before, just in where I thought it

892
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:26,760
seemed to fit better.

893
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:31,199
And if I were looking for it, I would look here at a place

894
00:55:31,199 --> 00:55:35,760
under fire hydrant locations and coverage rather than at

895
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:37,760
the other location.

896
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:44,760
Requirements for abandoning water mains.

897
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:49,760
Again, references to drawings there.

898
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:55,400
We're asking, before it said that all valves that are being

899
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:57,760
abandoned should be removed and delivered to us.

900
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:02,800
Now we have changed that and said only valves 16 inches and

901
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:03,760
larger.

902
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:07,989
And here's the note here where I've taken out those water

903
00:56:07,989 --> 00:56:14,110
drawings and referred the person to those drawings in the

904
00:56:14,110 --> 00:56:16,760
old manual if they really want to look at those.

905
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:25,760
It was just like 12 pages or 12 to 18 pages of drawings.

906
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:30,760
Then we get into section four wastewater design guidelines.

907
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:36,760
Updates of the references there.

908
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,760
Updates.

909
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:46,760
The old reference was to.

910
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,760
I lost it now.

911
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:57,039
It used to be TNRCC and that's the Texas Commission on

912
00:56:57,039 --> 00:57:06,760
Environmental Quality to their administrative rules there.

913
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:14,239
And the old chart from the TNRCC criteria and the new chart

914
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:21,860
that's been accepted from TCEQ's rules there and placed in

915
00:57:21,860 --> 00:57:23,760
this area.

916
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:28,199
The old section on separation and spacing of sewer mains

917
00:57:28,199 --> 00:57:29,760
from water mains.

918
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:34,710
Now TCEQ calls it separation distances between wastewater

919
00:57:34,710 --> 00:57:39,260
collection system pipes and manholes and public water

920
00:57:39,260 --> 00:57:40,760
supply pipes.

921
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:45,199
Why? They just said separation of sewer lines from water

922
00:57:45,199 --> 00:57:45,760
lines.

923
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:50,760
I don't know.

924
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:55,230
I caution that we no longer allow the use of cast iron and

925
00:57:55,230 --> 00:57:59,010
these come straight out of this TCEQ rules and

926
00:57:59,010 --> 00:58:01,760
administrative rules there.

927
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:07,340
And I think you, sir, you had a question earlier about the

928
00:58:07,340 --> 00:58:12,760
water main over or under the sewer line or something.

929
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:24,760
Okay.

930
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:29,400
Basically, I don't know why they take so many words to say

931
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:32,099
it, but basically the requirement is nine feet of

932
00:58:32,099 --> 00:58:35,760
separation between the outside of the pipes there.

933
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:39,530
And then if you can't get that, then these go into the

934
00:58:39,530 --> 00:58:43,849
different scenarios if your pipe, the sewer line's over or

935
00:58:43,849 --> 00:58:47,460
if it's under the water line or if it's closer to the water

936
00:58:47,460 --> 00:58:47,760
line,

937
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:51,739
that it has to be both of them have to be pressure lines

938
00:58:51,739 --> 00:58:58,010
there so that there can't be any opportunity of the if the

939
00:58:58,010 --> 00:59:00,760
water line breaks or something there,

940
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:06,429
then there can't be or has a crack in it. It can't pull in

941
00:59:06,429 --> 00:59:08,650
any of the wastewater leaking wastewater from the

942
00:59:08,650 --> 00:59:10,760
surrounding ground into the water system.

943
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:13,760
And right. That's what I was talking about.

944
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:15,760
Using a casing.

945
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,909
But I thought it was only for wastewater lines, so it

946
00:59:18,909 --> 00:59:21,760
wouldn't contaminate underground water.

947
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:25,760
That's what that reference was.

948
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:32,760
Again, continuing on with that portion here.

949
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:36,760
Size and slope of sewer.

950
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:41,289
Here we require a minimum roughness coefficient of point

951
00:59:41,289 --> 00:59:42,760
zero one three.

952
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:46,760
The lowest I've ever seen is like point zero one zero.

953
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:53,760
So you're 300 soft.

954
00:59:53,760 --> 01:00:01,760
This is from the part title 30 Texas Administrative Code,

955
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:08,760
the TCEQ chart summarizing some of the distances there.

956
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:12,760
Minimum and maximum pipe slopes from the TCEQ.

957
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:15,639
We've amended it. They have amended some of their

958
01:00:15,639 --> 01:00:16,760
requirements.

959
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:21,710
The minimum slope and percent for six inch pipe is now zero

960
01:00:21,710 --> 01:00:33,949
point five zero percent and some of the other minor changes

961
01:00:33,949 --> 01:00:35,760
there.

962
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:41,900
High velocity protection if the sewer line is very on a

963
01:00:41,900 --> 01:00:48,579
very steep grade, what to do to prevent it from displacing

964
01:00:48,579 --> 01:00:50,760
dislodging there.

965
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:56,199
Again, we refer to drawing U 204 sheet seven of the city

966
01:00:56,199 --> 01:00:59,760
standard details to get them to the right location there.

967
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:05,760
A change in name.

968
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:09,929
Here we indicate what our minimum lateral sizes are sewer

969
01:01:09,929 --> 01:01:13,989
service sizes are for which for a single family for which

970
01:01:13,989 --> 01:01:17,420
for residential duplex and triplex and then six inch

971
01:01:17,420 --> 01:01:21,760
minimum for retail commercial like commercial etc.

972
01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:30,610
And that's going to depend on the flow of the fixture units

973
01:01:30,610 --> 01:01:39,280
that you saw earlier as to the size that it really needs to

974
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:39,760
be

975
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:43,639
gravity and force main sewer pipe material. You see that we

976
01:01:43,639 --> 01:01:47,230
have some pumping a few pumping stations throughout the

977
01:01:47,230 --> 01:01:51,110
city. Those are called force bands when you pump the sewage

978
01:01:51,110 --> 01:01:54,829
from that lift station over the hill to get back into a

979
01:01:54,829 --> 01:01:56,760
gravity sewer system there.

980
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:08,760
Here's the update of the pipe material that we require now

981
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:15,760
sewer pipe embedment trench

982
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:22,260
manhole types that we accept cast in place precast with lin

983
01:02:22,260 --> 01:02:27,760
ers and the types of liners that we accept there.

984
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:33,460
That we will allow sewer mainland clean out if the main

985
01:02:33,460 --> 01:02:39,760
line is less than 150 feet long from the last manhole.

986
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:58,789
Talking about textiles utility accommodation zone. We text

987
01:02:58,789 --> 01:02:59,019
that doesn't give much room and the utility combination

988
01:02:59,019 --> 01:02:59,230
bone zone for all the other utilities, so we get for water

989
01:02:59,230 --> 01:02:59,480
and wastewater lines, we get separate easements outside of

990
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:08,760
the text right away there.

991
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:14,760
Yes sir. Commissioner Beck. Thank you chair on abandonment.

992
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:19,469
How often do we leave the old sewer lines in there do it

993
01:03:19,469 --> 01:03:22,760
and do it for cost effective reasons.

994
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:27,030
I'm sorry, leaving the old when we abandon a sewer line.

995
01:03:27,030 --> 01:03:31,019
Often do we just leave them in there and go on, we tend to

996
01:03:31,019 --> 01:03:35,190
pull them out most of the time. No sir, if the, if we're

997
01:03:35,190 --> 01:03:38,760
going to build a new line in the same trend.

998
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:42,719
Third, because if there are services off of it, because you

999
01:03:42,719 --> 01:03:46,500
can connect the services easier there from both sides there

1000
01:03:46,500 --> 01:03:50,159
. If we're going to reroute the sanitary sewer say, and

1001
01:03:50,159 --> 01:03:54,769
leave it there, we'll take and we'll have a specific method

1002
01:03:54,769 --> 01:03:59,300
of abandoning the manholes in it there taking the top off

1003
01:03:59,300 --> 01:04:05,150
filling it with cement grout and plugging the pipe ends,

1004
01:04:05,150 --> 01:04:07,760
but we leave the pipe there in those cases.

1005
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:11,849
Okay, in most cases, but it is more cost effective than

1006
01:04:11,849 --> 01:04:14,760
leaving them in the ground. Yes sir.

1007
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:19,429
Of course, I had a sewer foreman sewer construction foreman

1008
01:04:19,429 --> 01:04:23,730
one day that some time ago that I went out to him and said,

1009
01:04:23,730 --> 01:04:28,269
Parmali, I'm sorry, but we figured out a better way to wrap

1010
01:04:28,269 --> 01:04:32,280
the sewer line and we need you to dig this up and we need

1011
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:34,760
to slope it the other way.

1012
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:46,429
John no problem. They pay me just as much for digging it up

1013
01:04:46,429 --> 01:04:47,449
as they do for to put it down. So, okay, I never thought of

1014
01:04:47,449 --> 01:04:48,460
it that way. I think we've got a special treatment got some

1015
01:04:48,460 --> 01:04:49,369
food sound like it's been delivered so you won't take a

1016
01:04:49,369 --> 01:04:51,760
break and we'll get some food and we can continue

1017
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:53,760
just a real quick one.

1018
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:56,760
Yep, I got food now.

1019
01:04:56,760 --> 01:05:05,760
Yeah.

1020
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:08,570
He says that six oh six and let's try to get back as quick

1021
01:05:08,570 --> 01:05:11,760
as we can we still got a lot to get through.

1022
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:17,300
The coatings we require, and we've added the ability to use

1023
01:05:17,300 --> 01:05:22,590
the coding systems that we show for precast manholes that

1024
01:05:22,590 --> 01:05:28,260
we show on our design detail sheets, standard detail sheets

1025
01:05:28,260 --> 01:05:28,760
.

1026
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:32,079
We don't have a detail for fence and gate configuration

1027
01:05:32,079 --> 01:05:36,760
anymore. So that's been cut out.

1028
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:42,039
Here is a section out of TCQs current rules there about the

1029
01:05:42,039 --> 01:05:47,539
volume of wet wells, and how you the requirement for sizing

1030
01:05:47,539 --> 01:05:52,769
those are part of the requirement for sizing them during

1031
01:05:52,769 --> 01:05:54,760
our for power outages.

1032
01:05:54,760 --> 01:06:02,380
They're required to size them for at least 20 minutes or

1033
01:06:02,380 --> 01:06:09,719
for the longest power outage on record for the past 60

1034
01:06:09,719 --> 01:06:12,760
months past five years.

1035
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:18,449
References again to the standard detail drawings in the

1036
01:06:18,449 --> 01:06:23,760
standard detail sheets here for air release valves.

1037
01:06:23,760 --> 01:06:29,760
Here's one of the major changes that we've made here.

1038
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:35,199
We had sections subsections for electrical requirements and

1039
01:06:35,199 --> 01:06:39,760
for electronic requirements for lift stations.

1040
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:44,019
We don't very developments don't very often construct lift

1041
01:06:44,019 --> 01:06:46,760
stations for their developments.

1042
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:53,760
Jim, an estimate of how often roughly they yield?

1043
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:57,469
In the development review, we may see a project that

1044
01:06:57,469 --> 01:07:01,760
involves a public lift station once every couple years.

1045
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:09,739
So it's but I guess I would liken it to I buy the latest

1046
01:07:09,739 --> 01:07:17,300
router and before I Wi-Fi router for my house and before I

1047
01:07:17,300 --> 01:07:21,530
can get it connected to my computers, my printers and set

1048
01:07:21,530 --> 01:07:25,829
up and connected my internet and all, they've come out with

1049
01:07:25,829 --> 01:07:29,760
a new router that's got another class on it.

1050
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:34,760
It's gone from A, B, C, G, N, et cetera, et cetera.

1051
01:07:34,760 --> 01:07:39,349
Now, no, that's the same way in electronics electrical for

1052
01:07:39,349 --> 01:07:40,760
lift stations.

1053
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:45,760
They make quite a bit of advancements each year in those.

1054
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:50,289
So we decided that the best thing to do there is just keep

1055
01:07:50,289 --> 01:07:51,760
a current one.

1056
01:07:51,760 --> 01:07:55,079
And if someone needs to has a need for lift station, then

1057
01:07:55,079 --> 01:07:58,409
we'll provide them the most current up to date one with the

1058
01:07:58,409 --> 01:08:01,789
most current up to date equipment and electronics that we

1059
01:08:01,789 --> 01:08:05,230
're specifying in our that we're using in our lift stations

1060
01:08:05,230 --> 01:08:09,760
that we build or or reconstruct ourselves.

1061
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:17,399
So that takes a number of here was the electronic

1062
01:08:17,399 --> 01:08:19,760
requirements.

1063
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:23,869
Then we get into some general areas rights of way in eas

1064
01:08:23,869 --> 01:08:24,760
ements.

1065
01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:28,310
Their development will need to get a right away or an eas

1066
01:08:28,310 --> 01:08:32,189
ement off their development outside their area of the plant

1067
01:08:32,189 --> 01:08:35,760
to connect to an existing sewer line or water line.

1068
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:39,960
And these are the processes we've updated the process there

1069
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:43,819
in the names of the positions of the offices that handle

1070
01:08:43,819 --> 01:08:44,760
that now.

1071
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:48,819
Basically, the city city legal department has prepared

1072
01:08:48,819 --> 01:08:52,949
standard legal documents for easements and rights of ways

1073
01:08:52,949 --> 01:08:55,760
for the different utilities there.

1074
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:59,760
We take and furnish those to the developer.

1075
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:03,989
They hire a land surveyor to write the legal description

1076
01:09:03,989 --> 01:09:08,510
survey, the legal description, the easement, prepare the

1077
01:09:08,510 --> 01:09:11,760
legal description and prepare a sketch of that.

1078
01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:14,880
They put that document back together, give it to us. We

1079
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:17,970
review it, give it back to them and say, okay, go forth and

1080
01:09:17,970 --> 01:09:19,760
do good things and acquire it.

1081
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:23,760
Now they bring it back to us in the city reviews it.

1082
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:30,520
And then we record it with them paying the recording fee

1083
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:31,760
for it.

1084
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:34,760
And that's all this does here.

1085
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:43,279
Then the city tech start in railroad companies will not

1086
01:09:43,279 --> 01:09:47,760
accept a permit from a private enterprise.

1087
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:51,539
They want the permit to be from the utility owner so that

1088
01:09:51,539 --> 01:09:55,489
in the future they've got leverage over the utility owner

1089
01:09:55,489 --> 01:09:56,760
there and all.

1090
01:09:56,760 --> 01:10:01,939
So we have to make all permit applications in the city's

1091
01:10:01,939 --> 01:10:06,300
name for the development. And that's what this section does

1092
01:10:06,300 --> 01:10:06,760
here.

1093
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:13,359
Here is an outdated form that our real estate people didn't

1094
01:10:13,359 --> 01:10:16,760
even know existed anymore.

1095
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:22,840
We go in and explain to them about the text on permits and

1096
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:27,930
we refer them to somewhere here. We refer them to text us

1097
01:10:27,930 --> 01:10:31,079
use of right away by others manual and give them the

1098
01:10:31,079 --> 01:10:35,760
website even for that location of that manual there.

1099
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:41,760
And hope that text doesn't change it.

1100
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:47,010
A section for agenda plan revisions and change orders. Occ

1101
01:10:47,010 --> 01:10:50,760
asionally the occasionally almost whenever project.

1102
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:53,760
There's some change necessary in the plans.

1103
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:56,760
Commissioner Beck. Yes, sir.

1104
01:10:56,760 --> 01:10:59,760
When you get on the six one to.

1105
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:00,760
Yes.

1106
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:03,760
Yeah, right. No city projects. Yes, sir.

1107
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:07,420
It says the city's design engineer is not to attempt to

1108
01:11:07,420 --> 01:11:11,500
contact contractors at any time concerning agenda plan rev

1109
01:11:11,500 --> 01:11:14,760
isions of change or that just caught my eye.

1110
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:19,199
It seems rather rigid. Is there a reason why we don't want

1111
01:11:19,199 --> 01:11:21,760
them to communicate at any level.

1112
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:23,760
We don't have something to do with the bidding process.

1113
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:28,020
Well, we want. We don't want them contacting the contractor

1114
01:11:28,020 --> 01:11:32,130
directly about that or the contractor contacting the design

1115
01:11:32,130 --> 01:11:34,760
engineer directly. And this really is.

1116
01:11:34,760 --> 01:12:01,770
And more in our consultant engineers. We don't want it's

1117
01:12:01,770 --> 01:12:01,829
not that we don't want them to talk and be involved in it.

1118
01:12:01,829 --> 01:12:01,909
We want that contact coming through the city's

1119
01:12:01,909 --> 01:12:01,979
representative, which is first on the ground, the

1120
01:12:01,979 --> 01:12:02,060
construction inspector on the ground, then the city's

1121
01:12:02,060 --> 01:12:02,140
project manager. And then if we decide that we need the

1122
01:12:02,140 --> 01:12:02,239
design engineer consultant design engineer involved in it,

1123
01:12:02,239 --> 01:12:02,760
we will involve them and bring them into the conversation.

1124
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:06,390
Otherwise, you get this contractor and the design

1125
01:12:06,390 --> 01:12:10,399
consultant talking and the city has no idea. And then the

1126
01:12:10,399 --> 01:12:13,489
contractors comes and says, oh, by the way, we had this

1127
01:12:13,489 --> 01:12:17,420
problem out there and here's this $25,000 change order that

1128
01:12:17,420 --> 01:12:19,760
I've worked out with your consultant.

1129
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,760
We say.

1130
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:27,909
So it's really to make sure the communications are flowing

1131
01:12:27,909 --> 01:12:33,029
to the right people. It's not that we're trying to box off

1132
01:12:33,029 --> 01:12:34,760
anybody there.

1133
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:38,079
And we tried to differentiate between city projects, what

1134
01:12:38,079 --> 01:12:40,779
the process is for city projects and what it is for

1135
01:12:40,779 --> 01:12:44,350
development projects there. The same thing with development

1136
01:12:44,350 --> 01:12:47,869
projects. Then contractors should go through the inspector

1137
01:12:47,869 --> 01:12:52,770
and the inspector should go back to development review and

1138
01:12:52,770 --> 01:12:57,760
then to the development engineer for that.

1139
01:12:57,760 --> 01:13:03,600
Again, here's change orders for development projects and

1140
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:05,760
for city projects.

1141
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:11,189
And we've changed our over the years we've changed the

1142
01:13:11,189 --> 01:13:16,760
thresholds here for the change order approvals there.

1143
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:22,119
Distribution of modified plans change plans and specs or

1144
01:13:22,119 --> 01:13:24,760
specs for city projects.

1145
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:29,810
Section on submittals material submittals and shop drawings

1146
01:13:29,810 --> 01:13:34,199
submittals shop drawings being a engineering design

1147
01:13:34,199 --> 01:13:39,180
fabrication thing and materials listing simply being a list

1148
01:13:39,180 --> 01:13:43,989
of materials that contractor plans to use on this contract

1149
01:13:43,989 --> 01:13:45,760
or this development.

1150
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:50,869
So we can check and make sure that it's an approved

1151
01:13:50,869 --> 01:13:57,300
material, and we provide to the development engineer prior

1152
01:13:57,300 --> 01:14:02,579
to the approval of the plans, a list of the approved

1153
01:14:02,579 --> 01:14:08,430
materials in the manual here has a list of those approved

1154
01:14:08,430 --> 01:14:09,760
materials.

1155
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:16,359
Shop drawings material shop drawings, at least we used to

1156
01:14:16,359 --> 01:14:22,539
require five copies now we require one, preferably in

1157
01:14:22,539 --> 01:14:24,760
electronic format.

1158
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:32,760
How the review will be performed.

1159
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:38,010
And how we will respond back with some little acceptable

1160
01:14:38,010 --> 01:14:43,710
with minor exceptions accepted to middle, or it's rejected

1161
01:14:43,710 --> 01:14:46,760
nonconformance of some middle.

1162
01:14:46,760 --> 01:15:02,989
And then, in the old manual. There was a another section

1163
01:15:02,989 --> 01:15:03,479
eight, which was called agenda plan revision and change

1164
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:04,000
orders, and another section nine, which was called submitt

1165
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:04,489
als, which was a duplication of the two that I've just gone

1166
01:15:04,489 --> 01:15:06,760
over with you with slightly different wording,

1167
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:15,359
so we've combined those two are for in deleted eight and

1168
01:15:15,359 --> 01:15:19,699
nine. Again, just like with the water drawings are taking

1169
01:15:19,699 --> 01:15:22,979
the wastewater drawings, and they're all in the standard

1170
01:15:22,979 --> 01:15:23,760
details now.

1171
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:30,350
In the old section 10 on site sewage facilities septic

1172
01:15:30,350 --> 01:15:36,449
tanks, probably able to put that in parentheses here

1173
01:15:36,449 --> 01:15:43,789
reference to the correct TCEQ administrative code and just

1174
01:15:43,789 --> 01:15:47,430
the preference that should be understood but sometimes not

1175
01:15:47,430 --> 01:15:47,760
that these people

1176
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:51,399
professional engineer or professional sanitarian who are

1177
01:15:51,399 --> 01:15:55,039
doing the side evaluations and planning for the septic tank

1178
01:15:55,039 --> 01:15:57,760
have to be licensed by the state of Texas.

1179
01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:03,760
And then the city issues the permit for that septic tank.

1180
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:09,760
That was the water and wastewater manual.

1181
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:13,760
Other questions on it Commissioner Sullivan. Yes, sir.

1182
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:18,710
If after all this, the developer goes through all these 76

1183
01:16:18,710 --> 01:16:21,760
pages, or whatever it ends up being.

1184
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:25,470
And they say well I realized that a certain diameter of

1185
01:16:25,470 --> 01:16:29,279
pipe is needed. I want to put in a smaller pipe because it

1186
01:16:29,279 --> 01:16:31,760
's more efficient for me cost wise.

1187
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:33,760
Is that ever allowed.

1188
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:38,279
He can make a case for that and submit a request for that

1189
01:16:38,279 --> 01:16:42,930
exception if you will, it'll be evaluated based on his

1190
01:16:42,930 --> 01:16:46,760
design engineers computations and all.

1191
01:16:46,760 --> 01:16:51,390
And in some cases, may prove out to be that that smaller

1192
01:16:51,390 --> 01:16:52,760
pipe is okay.

1193
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:58,340
All the hybrid flows and all the things y'all talked about

1194
01:16:58,340 --> 01:17:03,829
in here that a different size pipe would produce the same

1195
01:17:03,829 --> 01:17:09,300
results that's necessary and so that would be a reason to

1196
01:17:09,300 --> 01:17:10,760
deviate from.

1197
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:16,260
What's written here, you can't just like Jennifer knows you

1198
01:17:16,260 --> 01:17:21,100
can't write an ordinance that covers every situation

1199
01:17:21,100 --> 01:17:24,300
development. That's why you folks are here and that's why

1200
01:17:24,300 --> 01:17:26,760
we have the variance board.

1201
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:30,760
And all you can't write an ordinance or policies and

1202
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:35,729
procedures, or anything else that covers every situation.

1203
01:17:35,729 --> 01:17:39,949
So there has to be some logic in there reason for it and if

1204
01:17:39,949 --> 01:17:44,760
they can prove that that will work and won't.

1205
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:49,199
The city can maintain it and operate it just as efficiently

1206
01:17:49,199 --> 01:17:50,760
as the other one then.

1207
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:55,359
Okay, thank you. Now that's going to take longer to get

1208
01:17:55,359 --> 01:17:59,619
through that process than to get just like if you come to

1209
01:17:59,619 --> 01:18:03,329
me with a brand new material of pipe that was not on our

1210
01:18:03,329 --> 01:18:07,960
acceptable list is going to take longer to look at that and

1211
01:18:07,960 --> 01:18:09,760
evaluate that and do research on it.

1212
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:15,000
Then for you to use this but if you really want to do that,

1213
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:20,090
then we'll take the time to check and see if it's might be

1214
01:18:20,090 --> 01:18:21,760
acceptable.

1215
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:29,770
Exactly. Thank you. Appreciate your other questions on

1216
01:18:29,770 --> 01:18:33,760
water and wastewater.

1217
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:39,829
I don't know that we're going to get to the next one. Due

1218
01:18:39,829 --> 01:18:41,770
to time, we've got to get back at 630 so for those that are

1219
01:18:41,770 --> 01:18:44,619
watching online it is available on our website the

1220
01:18:44,619 --> 01:18:46,760
construction criteria manual.

1221
01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:50,800
And I think it's announced earlier over the next 30 days,

1222
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:54,199
we're going to be looking for public comment on all of

1223
01:18:54,199 --> 01:18:57,760
these and see what those are and y'all will be reviewing

1224
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:01,409
those comments and addressing them as best you can and if

1225
01:19:01,409 --> 01:19:04,760
not then it'll come back to PNC for another go through.

1226
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:08,279
Is that correct. Yes sir. Okay for public hearings and all

1227
01:19:08,279 --> 01:19:09,760
there. Great.

1228
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:13,640
John thank you for your presentation. Sorry we had a lot of

1229
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:17,279
questions and didn't get through all of it but apologize

1230
01:19:17,279 --> 01:19:19,989
for being so slow but hope I've answered your questions

1231
01:19:19,989 --> 01:19:20,760
adequately.

1232
01:19:20,760 --> 01:19:24,760
Did a great job. Thank you. Thank you.

1233
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:42,979
And with that at 626 I'm going to close our work session

1234
01:19:42,979 --> 01:19:52,760
and we'll reconvene at six there.

1235
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:55,939
Good evening and welcome to the city of Denton planning and

1236
01:19:55,939 --> 01:19:58,760
zoning Commission meeting for July the 26.

1237
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:02,229
This meeting has been duly posted and we do have a quorum

1238
01:20:02,229 --> 01:20:06,560
present and I'm gonna call us to order at 636. And our

1239
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:12,239
first order of business will be to stand and give the

1240
01:20:12,239 --> 01:20:15,760
pledge the US and the Texas flag.

1241
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:21,170
To the Republic for which it stands one nation under God

1242
01:20:21,170 --> 01:20:25,760
indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

1243
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:45,760
Honor the Texas flag.

1244
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:49,859
Our next order of business will be our consent agenda and

1245
01:20:49,859 --> 01:20:52,760
the chair would entertain a motion.

1246
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:57,289
Commissioner Beck. I know we approve consent agenda.

1247
01:20:57,289 --> 01:20:59,449
Commissioner Rossell. I second. Okay. We have a first and a

1248
01:20:59,449 --> 01:21:03,760
second. Any discussion.

1249
01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:05,760
Seeing none.

1250
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:13,760
We'll call for a vote on the board.

1251
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:20,800
Motion carries five to zero. And that will move us to our

1252
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:22,760
project matrix.

1253
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:24,760
Commissioner Beck.

1254
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:31,409
Yes, I just I'm curious. We've talked about this a couple

1255
01:21:31,409 --> 01:21:37,649
times, but this thing's about a year old now. I'm just

1256
01:21:37,649 --> 01:21:44,199
wondering what's delaying our new improved notification

1257
01:21:44,199 --> 01:21:45,760
process. I've had concerns expressed about the failure of

1258
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:45,760
the signage that we wanted.

1259
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:49,130
We've made significant progress. We actually presented the

1260
01:21:49,130 --> 01:21:52,050
notification procedures that the planning and zoning

1261
01:21:52,050 --> 01:21:55,159
Commission recommended based on staff's presentation to

1262
01:21:55,159 --> 01:21:58,760
them. It was a very fruitful conversation.

1263
01:21:58,760 --> 01:22:02,550
One of the elements that we discussed was the postcard. We

1264
01:22:02,550 --> 01:22:06,069
talked about notification of signs. We talked about

1265
01:22:06,069 --> 01:22:09,859
certified mail where council was keen that we continue that

1266
01:22:09,859 --> 01:22:13,369
process. And as a result, we've gone ahead and we've

1267
01:22:13,369 --> 01:22:16,989
proceeded with issuing postcards and what have you. And we

1268
01:22:16,989 --> 01:22:18,760
've instituted the process.

1269
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:22,760
So do we have a date certain maybe because.

1270
01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:23,760
A date.

1271
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:26,090
Just seems like we've talked about it a long time. We've

1272
01:22:26,090 --> 01:22:27,760
implemented the process.

1273
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:30,350
Okay. So we've gone with the postcards. We've gone with the

1274
01:22:30,350 --> 01:22:33,439
signage. We've gone with all those elements. What we can do

1275
01:22:33,439 --> 01:22:38,079
is do a quick summary. I had a work session. We haven't

1276
01:22:38,079 --> 01:22:40,760
done the signs yet.

1277
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:42,760
So on any new development then.

1278
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:45,609
Let's do this for the next PNC. We'll do a quick work

1279
01:22:45,609 --> 01:22:48,020
session to bring everybody up to speed on where we are with

1280
01:22:48,020 --> 01:22:50,760
the process. Thank you.

1281
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:52,760
Chair would ask a question on that.

1282
01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:54,760
There is one.

1283
01:22:54,760 --> 01:22:58,130
Do we want to do that now or do we want to wait a few weeks

1284
01:22:58,130 --> 01:23:01,670
and when we get our new commissioners on maybe do that at

1285
01:23:01,670 --> 01:23:06,300
that time. That seems to be always a point of discussion

1286
01:23:06,300 --> 01:23:07,760
with new members.

1287
01:23:07,760 --> 01:23:10,300
And it's one of the reasons why we've had a light load in

1288
01:23:10,300 --> 01:23:12,520
terms of we're trying to make sure we have a full

1289
01:23:12,520 --> 01:23:15,449
commission because it can compromise an applicant's zoning

1290
01:23:15,449 --> 01:23:16,760
case, for example.

1291
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:20,770
So we're trying to keep the agendas as light as possible

1292
01:23:20,770 --> 01:23:23,760
until we don't fill these two seats.

1293
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:26,569
Okay, so we're going to wait until we get a full commission

1294
01:23:26,569 --> 01:23:28,199
. Is that what we're saying? If that's the wish of the PNC

1295
01:23:28,199 --> 01:23:28,760
commission, yes.

1296
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:31,760
Do we have any idea when that may happen?

1297
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:35,760
We anticipate some nominations at the August 1st meeting.

1298
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:39,260
That was the discussion I had with the city secretary and

1299
01:23:39,260 --> 01:23:41,760
based on that we'll see where we are.

1300
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:42,760
Okay.

1301
01:23:42,760 --> 01:23:44,760
But I can't say anything.

1302
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:47,760
So we have names that have been up for nomination.

1303
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:50,760
No, the nominations will be made on August 1st.

1304
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:55,760
Okay. All right. Thanks, Manal.

1305
01:23:55,760 --> 01:24:02,760
Any other items for the matrix?

1306
01:24:02,760 --> 01:24:06,720
Okay, seeing none, I will close our meeting this evening at

1307
01:24:06,720 --> 01:24:08,760
640. Thank you, everyone.