WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.930 Planning and Zoning Commission Work Session for April the 00:00:02.930 --> 00:00:05.660 12th, 2017. This 00:00:05.660 --> 00:00:08.960 meeting has been duly posted and we have a quorum present 00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:10.480 and I'm going to call us to 00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:15.080 order at 435. Our first order of business will be to 00:00:15.080 --> 00:00:17.519 receive clarification of 00:00:17.519 --> 00:00:21.019 agenda items and I will turn it over to Shandria for 00:00:21.019 --> 00:00:23.460 presentation. Okay, good 00:00:23.460 --> 00:00:27.329 evening. The first item is the minutes. Do we have any 00:00:27.329 --> 00:00:28.379 discussion on the minutes 00:00:28.379 --> 00:00:32.649 from, we don't have the minutes yet. Never mind. Okay, we 00:00:32.649 --> 00:00:33.899 have a final 00:00:33.899 --> 00:00:37.840 plaque on the consent agenda for the Basinger addition. Any 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:40.880 questions on that? 00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:48.189 Okay, we have a final replat for Guyer High School. Any 00:00:48.189 --> 00:00:52.359 questions or comments? 00:00:52.679 --> 00:00:59.929 Hey, Haley Zagorski. Commissioner Beck. Thank you, Chair. 00:00:59.929 --> 00:01:02.280 Seemed when we dealt with this 00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:05.109 last, I didn't know they were gonna build anything on it. I 00:01:05.109 --> 00:01:06.000 think there was some 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:08.829 potential there, but now is there actually a plan to build 00:01:08.829 --> 00:01:10.680 something there? 00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:16.239 Yes, sir. So previously it was this large lot was what they 00:01:16.239 --> 00:01:16.959 had plotted and that's 00:01:16.959 --> 00:01:20.120 where the existing school is. They have submitted site plan 00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:21.680 applications to do 00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:25.049 some expansions to the school building itself and then to 00:01:25.049 --> 00:01:26.200 put new parking lots 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:29.409 on these southern two portions that they're now taking in 00:01:29.409 --> 00:01:30.920 to this lot and I 00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:33.760 think that's for band practice and things like that. 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:36.640 Just curious because like say last time we dealt with that, 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:37.840 I don't remember, you 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:40.159 know, other than them wanting to get it zoned or they could 00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:43.120 potentially do so. I didn't know anything. So that's it. 00:01:43.120 --> 00:01:43.640 Thank you. 00:01:43.640 --> 00:01:50.370 The next item Z1701 is a request to amend the DENT 00:01:50.370 --> 00:01:54.799 development code related to self storage use and I will 00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:58.719 call Julie Wyatt up for a presentation. 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:16.370 Good evening. Julie Wyatt, senior planner with the City of 00:02:16.370 --> 00:02:22.159 Denton. So tonight I'm 00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:28.439 presenting Z1701 self-service storage. So the request 00:02:28.439 --> 00:02:29.879 before you is to consider a 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:32.800 proposed revision to the Denton development code and that's 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:33.560 specifically 00:02:33.560 --> 00:02:38.080 to amend subchapter 5 pertaining to the self storage use. I 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:38.960 just will clarify 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:42.539 that this request is from an outside party, it's not 00:02:42.539 --> 00:02:44.439 actually staff requesting 00:02:44.439 --> 00:02:48.460 this amendment and I forgot the applicant so if you want to 00:02:48.460 --> 00:02:50.000 expound. Yes, 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:53.919 absolutely and Chandrine is correct. So we were approached 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:56.479 by Mike Coker a few 00:02:56.479 --> 00:03:00.830 months ago in order to pursue a Denton development code 00:03:00.830 --> 00:03:02.900 amendment regarding the 00:03:02.900 --> 00:03:06.169 self storage use and in particular they wanted to amend it 00:03:06.169 --> 00:03:07.240 so that self storage 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:11.849 could be permitted in CMG and we said you know if you want 00:03:11.849 --> 00:03:14.159 to pursue that go 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:18.479 ahead and do that the the background research and propose 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:19.240 something to us and 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:22.509 we'll discuss it. So that's how we got to today. It wasn't 00:03:22.509 --> 00:03:23.680 staff initiated, it was 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:26.949 actually initiated by an outside group. To let you know 00:03:26.949 --> 00:03:28.520 what's currently required 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:32.300 in the Denton development code, self-service storage by 00:03:32.300 --> 00:03:33.280 definition is 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:35.879 the structure used for dead storage mainly of excess 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:37.120 personal property of an 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:40.159 individual or family but also small amounts of goods or 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:41.159 merchandise for 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:46.830 businesses or individuals. Currently the code permits it in 00:03:46.830 --> 00:03:49.919 ECC, ECI, ICE and ICG 00:03:49.919 --> 00:03:53.800 and these are zoning districts that are typically either 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:54.520 employment 00:03:54.520 --> 00:04:00.310 or industrial use zoning districts and in fact the self 00:04:00.310 --> 00:04:02.479 storage use currently is 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:06.439 in the industrial land use category within subchapter 5 of 00:04:06.439 --> 00:04:07.240 the Denton 00:04:07.240 --> 00:04:10.800 development code so it follows the industrial site design 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:13.419 standards. So the 00:04:13.419 --> 00:04:16.699 applicant has made a proposal regarding the the Denton 00:04:16.699 --> 00:04:19.120 development code and 00:04:19.120 --> 00:04:23.949 through this process we've been in discussions with them 00:04:23.949 --> 00:04:24.680 and the 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:26.980 proposal has changed some and we'll go over that but what 00:04:26.980 --> 00:04:28.240 they're proposing is 00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:31.180 to relocate the self-service storage from the industrial 00:04:31.180 --> 00:04:32.759 land use category to 00:04:32.759 --> 00:04:36.240 the commercial land use category in all zoning districts. 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:38.079 They've also proposed a 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:42.079 limitation 35 that pertains to self storage use and I'll go 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:43.199 over those that 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:48.069 all sides of the facility must be 100% masonry stone, 00:04:48.069 --> 00:04:48.800 architectural 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:52.730 concrete block with integrated color, a stucco or concrete 00:04:52.730 --> 00:04:53.959 tilt wall colored or 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:58.680 stamped. The limitation on exterior materials is exclusive 00:04:58.680 --> 00:04:59.519 of fenestration 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:02.519 such as doors, windows, or glass or entryway treatments and 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:03.199 glass may not 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:08.879 account for more than 70% of the exterior wall area. No 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:09.680 overhead bay 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:13.959 doors and/or storage unit doors are permitted to be visible 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:14.839 from adjacent 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:18.139 property or the public right of way. No outdoor storage is 00:05:18.139 --> 00:05:20.000 permitted. All 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:22.699 proposed fencing materials are limited to masonry or wr 00:05:22.699 --> 00:05:24.439 ought iron and then 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:26.740 landscape buffers should be in accordance with sub chapter 00:05:26.740 --> 00:05:27.279 13 of the 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:31.680 Denton development code. Finally the proposal is to permit 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:32.560 the self storage 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:39.439 use in CMG district within SUP and limitation 35. Also with 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:40.079 our discussions 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:44.259 with them we added in to modify the ECC and ECI districts 00:05:44.259 --> 00:05:46.160 to require the SUP and 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:49.529 the L35 for self service storage. Currently that use is 00:05:49.529 --> 00:05:50.240 permitted without 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:54.839 any limitation. So the considerations that staff looked at 00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:55.879 when we looked at 00:05:55.879 --> 00:05:58.759 their proposal is first of all we looked at what is CMG 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:00.439 intended for. So CMG is 00:06:00.439 --> 00:06:04.170 a commercial mixed use zoning district. It's intended to 00:06:04.170 --> 00:06:04.560 provide the 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:07.829 retail, the employment, the service uses that the community 00:06:07.829 --> 00:06:09.720 needs. It's typically 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:13.449 found on arterial roadways, larger roadways, and also the 00:06:13.449 --> 00:06:14.439 intersection of 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:18.480 local roads and arterial streets to provide adequate access 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:20.120 . When we look at 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:23.649 the actual use and we look at how it functions and what 00:06:23.649 --> 00:06:24.360 kind of things 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:29.550 happen on that on in association with that facility we 00:06:29.550 --> 00:06:30.279 determined that that 00:06:30.279 --> 00:06:33.550 use you know typically doesn't produce substantial nuis 00:06:33.550 --> 00:06:34.800 ances such as light, noise 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:38.550 and traffic but it can have visual impacts and so in 00:06:38.550 --> 00:06:39.839 particularly in 00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:43.930 commercial areas and so that's where that L35 comes in that 00:06:43.930 --> 00:06:45.000 it the enhanced 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:48.730 in exterior building materials the the commercial site 00:06:48.730 --> 00:06:50.720 design standards the 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:54.230 screening the buffers to mute those potential impacts and 00:06:54.230 --> 00:06:55.639 then also the SUP 00:06:55.639 --> 00:06:58.680 because those would be would then look a little deeper in 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:00.480 each specific request 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:04.209 and potentially result in site specific design and use 00:07:04.209 --> 00:07:05.879 conditions in accordance 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:11.819 with subchapter 6 of the development code. Excuse me. When 00:07:11.819 --> 00:07:12.519 we look at the 00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:18.069 expansion of the SUP and the limit and the L35 requirements 00:07:18.069 --> 00:07:20.120 to the ECC and ECI 00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:24.949 districts we looked at we looked at where they're located 00:07:24.949 --> 00:07:27.480 so and here's a 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:33.110 map here and the pink shows the CMG the blues show the ECC 00:07:33.110 --> 00:07:35.480 and ECI and then the 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:38.529 kind of purple or that are the industrial districts the ICG 00:07:38.529 --> 00:07:39.480 and ICE so as 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:43.459 you can see where the blue is it's often located and some 00:07:43.459 --> 00:07:44.439 of our gateway 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:47.810 corridors or some of those really highly visible commercial 00:07:47.810 --> 00:07:49.199 corridors it's also 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:52.240 located particularly here in the Shady Oaks area if I can 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:53.199 get my mouse to work 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:56.720 adjacent to some residential areas so so we thought that it 00:07:56.720 --> 00:07:58.120 would probably be a 00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:02.220 good idea to go ahead and apply those the the limitation 00:08:02.220 --> 00:08:04.199 and the SUP to the 00:08:04.199 --> 00:08:07.930 use in these areas so that they develop in a way that's 00:08:07.930 --> 00:08:12.759 that is aesthetically 00:08:13.000 --> 00:08:16.079 complimentary to the area and what we want to see in these 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:17.279 corridors and as I 00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:21.990 said before the use is currently permitted by right when we 00:08:21.990 --> 00:08:23.000 also we also 00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:28.959 looked at one other addition to the limitation and it's a 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:29.639 recommendation 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:34.039 we're actually making today so CMG district as I said is a 00:08:34.039 --> 00:08:34.639 mixed use 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:37.690 commercial district but it is intended to develop with kind 00:08:37.690 --> 00:08:38.519 of a in a cohesive 00:08:38.519 --> 00:08:42.679 manner in a cohesive manner with pedestrian family mixed 00:08:42.679 --> 00:08:43.519 use character 00:08:43.519 --> 00:08:47.279 and that includes a compact compact development pattern 00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:48.320 often when you see 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:51.820 the self-service storage you see kind of a larger footprint 00:08:51.820 --> 00:08:52.919 of that development 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:57.330 with with long rows of the facility so people can access 00:08:57.330 --> 00:08:59.000 those those individual 00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:03.820 storage units so in order to meet the intent of what CMG 00:09:03.820 --> 00:09:05.480 and what we want our 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:09.529 commercial centers to look like staff is request or is 00:09:09.529 --> 00:09:11.679 recommending a condition 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:15.940 on the on the approval in that L35 also include that all 00:09:15.940 --> 00:09:17.360 individually leased 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:21.799 storage units are contained within a larger climate control 00:09:21.799 --> 00:09:23.120 building we we 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:25.090 believe that this would encourage a compact development 00:09:25.090 --> 00:09:25.799 pattern that meets 00:09:25.799 --> 00:09:29.740 the intent of these commercial areas. I've got a question 00:09:29.740 --> 00:09:32.240 for you on that. Yes sir. 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:36.379 With that limitation that any storage unit would have to be 00:09:36.379 --> 00:09:37.159 all of it within 00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:41.259 have to be climate controlled? Yes within within CMG and 00:09:41.259 --> 00:09:43.320 within the ECC and ECI 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:47.919 in ICG and ICE those would remain said would remain the 00:09:47.919 --> 00:09:49.639 same the use would be 00:09:49.639 --> 00:09:53.370 permitted no limitation no SUP requirement. So if they 00:09:53.370 --> 00:09:54.399 wanted to do one 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:57.769 of those the whole thing has to be climate controlled not 00:09:57.769 --> 00:09:58.600 just a portion of 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:03.039 it? Yes sir. What what's besides trying to make it compact 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:04.580 is there some reason 00:10:04.580 --> 00:10:07.049 that if it's climate control you feel like it's gonna make 00:10:07.049 --> 00:10:08.360 it smaller just 00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:11.190 makes it taller? Yeah I think the climate control part is 00:10:11.190 --> 00:10:15.799 the wrong emphasis. The idea is to get it all in one 00:10:15.799 --> 00:10:19.320 building as opposed to being spread out over the whole lot. 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:23.879 We can if we can pull up an example of what that building 00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:25.840 type looks like you 00:10:25.840 --> 00:10:30.279 can take a few minutes but that's the intent. CMG typically 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:32.120 goes like Julie 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:35.120 showed on her map earlier it's usually next to residential 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:36.120 areas and so instead 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:42.129 of we want to keep the land use and the scale compatible 00:10:42.129 --> 00:10:43.320 with the residential 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:46.259 areas and so we feel like this type of design fits more 00:10:46.259 --> 00:10:47.639 appropriately at those 00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:52.350 areas than those huge warehouse type developments. Well 00:10:52.350 --> 00:10:53.679 while she's looking 00:10:53.679 --> 00:10:55.980 that's kind of where I'm going is it the ones that I've 00:10:55.980 --> 00:10:56.840 seen when they do 00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:00.960 climate controlled then they're smaller and taller and I 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:01.700 don't know what the 00:11:01.700 --> 00:11:05.279 height restriction is and if we're painting ourselves and 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:06.279 now this has been 00:11:06.279 --> 00:11:10.179 an issue here recently before this Commission about height 00:11:10.179 --> 00:11:10.940 that we're 00:11:10.940 --> 00:11:14.909 looking at this instead of having single-story cell storage 00:11:14.909 --> 00:11:15.879 now we've got 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:19.960 five-story cell storage buildings because we have to be 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:21.679 climate controlled so is 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:25.549 there a height limitation? CMG should be a hundred feet 00:11:25.549 --> 00:11:28.360 right? 65 feet. Okay I've 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:35.679 gone the wrong way we're now in the United States. I was so 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:36.799 close. 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:40.000 All right hold on I've heard its feelings now let me try 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:40.720 again I'm just 00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:52.509 going to start over. I was going there next. Let's see if I 00:11:52.509 --> 00:11:58.799 can. Right there on the railroad tracks. 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:05.090 All right so here is a cell storage use this is in one of 00:12:05.090 --> 00:12:06.399 our communities 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:11.070 nearby in Denton County and it is contained in a in a 00:12:11.070 --> 00:12:12.519 structure all of all 00:12:12.519 --> 00:12:19.620 of the those those individual units. Can you do since you 00:12:19.620 --> 00:12:21.600 're in yeah I was just 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:24.139 saying can you give us a perfect because I looked at it 00:12:24.139 --> 00:12:25.360 earlier it's not fully 00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:29.620 built but you can kind of see what it when it's gonna look 00:12:29.620 --> 00:12:33.240 like. It is yes sir. 00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:41.200 Commissioner else was next. Thank you chair. While I was 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:41.919 gonna kind of echo 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:44.960 some thoughts I understand where you're trying to go with 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:45.480 it with a smaller 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:49.830 footprint but it seems to to not be a good thing if we're 00:12:49.830 --> 00:12:51.639 talking about CMG 00:12:51.639 --> 00:12:55.200 being near these houses then we're really requesting with 00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:56.200 your amendment 00:12:56.200 --> 00:13:00.370 to to the applicants request having these buildings be 00:13:00.370 --> 00:13:02.120 forced up which doesn't 00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:05.539 seem complementary to a residential neighborhood in my 00:13:05.539 --> 00:13:07.480 opinion. This 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:11.639 particular structure I know exactly where this is and what 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:12.919 it looks like I 00:13:12.919 --> 00:13:16.309 think it's a monstrosity first of all it sticks out like a 00:13:16.309 --> 00:13:18.320 sore thumb to me but 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:22.769 it's also the houses are across the street maybe those are 00:13:22.769 --> 00:13:23.960 the closest ones 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:28.470 but the ones behind it are not that close to the structure. 00:13:28.470 --> 00:13:29.399 Well I get there's 00:13:29.399 --> 00:13:34.889 well okay yeah yeah okay yeah those right there it's a big 00:13:34.889 --> 00:13:37.360 structure this is 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:41.090 a bigger structure than I would feel comfortable building 00:13:41.090 --> 00:13:41.960 in in front of 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:45.909 someone's home. And the grain at CMG already allows the 65 00:13:45.909 --> 00:13:47.000 feet and that's 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:52.720 typically about five stories maybe. Commissioner Tyler. 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:54.519 Thank you chair so 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:58.389 this isn't I don't really feel like this is a very typical 00:13:58.389 --> 00:13:59.600 example it's a very 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:02.970 small parcel and a wedged in in a residential area most of 00:14:02.970 --> 00:14:04.320 the time CMG 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:08.980 we try and it's often 10 or 20 or 40 acres at a time. Can 00:14:08.980 --> 00:14:10.159 we look at the the 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:13.889 storage unit out on 380 I believe it's a climate controlled 00:14:13.889 --> 00:14:14.399 and I think it is 00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:20.470 like five stories it's a pretty tall one near 380 and Pal 00:14:20.470 --> 00:14:22.120 oma Creek, Navajo Road 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:27.960 area. It's huge. Yeah and again this is this is probably an 00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:30.320 even larger one just 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:35.600 for scale if you zoom in right there. It does. Oh my 00:14:35.600 --> 00:14:42.120 goodness. I'm so sorry. Try it. See if we can get the 00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:43.320 address. 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:50.230 26 740 East University Drive. I just do it by address. What 00:14:50.230 --> 00:14:55.000 was it 24? 26 740 East 00:14:55.000 --> 00:15:18.879 380 Aubrey. And then straight view. So I do feel like this 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:19.320 would be a more 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:22.149 typical installation it's got like the Walmart and the 00:15:22.149 --> 00:15:23.799 strip center nearby that 00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:28.519 would be what we're aiming for in a CMG zoning district. 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:42.000 It didn't get okay. And so that's the it's a tall building 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:43.799 it isn't looming 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:46.679 over houses here though and it is you know surrounded by 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:47.679 strip centers and 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:54.399 retail. There's one more on University I'm sorry Fort Worth 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:57.159 Drive and 35 in 00:15:57.159 --> 00:16:03.330 Denton. It's also four or five stories I think. Yeah the U- 00:16:03.330 --> 00:16:05.519 Haul. Is it just three stories? 00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:12.559 And so in this case this one is I believe mostly masonry. 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:16.120 The one on I-35 is 00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:19.059 metal building right. My understanding is if I remember it 00:16:19.059 --> 00:16:22.840 's a metal building. So 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:27.480 these are kind of the standard form. If you don't have just 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:28.960 a sprawling you 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:31.789 know long rows of buildings kind of like this stuff around 00:16:31.789 --> 00:16:33.240 the all storage there. 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:37.950 The standard form is a probably a three or four story kind 00:16:37.950 --> 00:16:40.200 of big concrete block 00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:44.549 building. So I don't know that if the goal is to avoid 00:16:44.549 --> 00:16:48.159 these sprawling long row 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:52.289 buildings like is visible here you know I think that that 00:16:52.289 --> 00:16:53.639 climate control does do 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:56.289 it. It kind of does it indirectly by by forcing them into 00:16:56.289 --> 00:16:57.799 an efficient design in 00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:03.419 one big building. But this isn't atypical. Commissioner 00:17:03.419 --> 00:17:05.359 Beck. Thank you chair. Yeah 00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:09.319 I think the other thing too that we have going for us is 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:11.000 the SUP. So if we get 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:16.099 into a neighborhood neighborhood I think the SUP would put 00:17:16.099 --> 00:17:18.079 limits on height. We 00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:22.910 could do that is that correct? But the CMGs tend to be I 00:17:22.910 --> 00:17:24.559 think as you mentioned 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:27.609 along major arterials. So yeah you're gonna have one area 00:17:27.609 --> 00:17:28.680 where you're gonna 00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:31.839 have tall buildings anyway. It's it's kind of set up for 00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:32.880 that though there may 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:37.160 be houses behind it but like this one seems appropriate 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:38.960 because it is run along 00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:42.549 380 where you're gonna have businesses that it's probably z 00:17:42.549 --> 00:17:43.440 oned where it would 00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:50.000 allow 60 and 65 foot heights. So but I think if we got into 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:50.960 just a pure 00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:54.690 neighborhood if a CMG was there and I'm not sure I see that 00:17:54.690 --> 00:17:55.960 on any of these right 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:59.410 here but I hadn't looked closely then I think the SUP would 00:17:59.410 --> 00:18:00.519 be protective of 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:06.009 that neighborhood. Just some thoughts. Commissioner Ellis. 00:18:06.009 --> 00:18:06.759 Thank you chair. 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:10.490 Well I'll respond to that Commissioner Beck. I think the 00:18:10.490 --> 00:18:11.519 issue with that is it 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:14.890 may not make the project feasible for an applicant at that 00:18:14.890 --> 00:18:17.079 point. We could ask 00:18:17.079 --> 00:18:21.049 the SUP to come down but if their footprint is so small and 00:18:21.049 --> 00:18:21.799 it has to be 00:18:21.799 --> 00:18:24.970 all climate controlled and enclosed then their project 00:18:24.970 --> 00:18:26.640 might not work if we don't 00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:29.680 let them build it to a specific height to have the number 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:30.920 of units they need to 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:35.779 make their project work. Julie I guess I want to ask how 00:18:35.779 --> 00:18:37.559 you came up with this 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:41.640 requirement. I mean other than the smaller footprint can 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:42.960 you elaborate a 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:46.720 little bit more? It really is because you know CMG 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:48.160 districts I think it was 00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:52.029 Commissioner Taylor that these are typically 20 to 40 acres 00:18:52.029 --> 00:18:52.519 they're 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:55.369 intended to be mixed use and to provide lots of different 00:18:55.369 --> 00:18:56.480 uses within it so that 00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:00.349 someone within the community could go there and park once 00:19:00.349 --> 00:19:01.319 and walk around and 00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:05.049 and do their shopping and do the things that they need. So 00:19:05.049 --> 00:19:06.480 we want to make sure 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:10.240 that the design standards and that it that it's designed in 00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:12.079 a way that permits 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:17.440 lots of uses within it and that also shrinks that footprint 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:18.359 . So that was 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:22.299 really the intent was the how we want these commercial 00:19:22.299 --> 00:19:23.880 mixed use centers to 00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:28.319 develop in going forward. Yeah that's correct and then to 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:29.359 emphasize we want to 00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:34.309 keep them walkable too so if you start sprawling out with 00:19:34.309 --> 00:19:35.440 these with the 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:38.599 individual units it makes it a little bit more difficult to 00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:39.559 design it in that 00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:44.900 way. Well on that note though it I mean you can't really 00:19:44.900 --> 00:19:45.720 walk to a storage 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:47.750 facility I mean you're gonna have to bring your car and I 00:19:47.750 --> 00:19:48.440 mean if you're if 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:51.519 you're bringing things out of it or delivering things to it 00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:52.200 you're gonna 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:55.720 have a vehicle so that I'm not sure walkability with a 00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:57.160 storage unit I mean I 00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:00.890 understand that it's part of the CMG I guess with this type 00:20:00.890 --> 00:20:02.160 of development I 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:05.599 don't think that really. Sure but in thinking of that 00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:06.960 development as part of 00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:09.829 a larger development so that it wouldn't be like a 00:20:09.829 --> 00:20:11.240 standalone it would it would be 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:16.359 part of a larger center. But this the requirement does I 00:20:16.359 --> 00:20:17.839 mean it does force 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:22.960 the building up higher effectively to make a project work. 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:23.279 Yes ma'am. 00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:27.799 Commissioner Hussbuth. This may be a legal question do we 00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:29.599 can we ask the 00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:33.509 applicant questions I mean because traditionally or not 00:20:33.509 --> 00:20:34.279 that I don't know 00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:38.069 if it's applicant or the genesis of the whatever it is but 00:20:38.069 --> 00:20:39.039 can we ask them 00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:42.569 questions in this environment normally we would in a if 00:20:42.569 --> 00:20:44.319 staff or that 00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:47.880 originated something then we'd ask staff questions at this 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:50.759 point to find out 00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:54.269 before we go into open. Since this is just a clarification 00:20:54.269 --> 00:20:55.480 item it would be 00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:59.430 better to have that in regular session. I'm assuming they 00:20:59.430 --> 00:21:00.480 're going to be in 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:06.200 attendance. Yes the applicant's here. Commissioner Taylor. 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:10.079 Thank you. So I think 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:13.759 for compatibility in CMG this is going to be next to Kroger 00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:14.640 or in the strip 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:17.859 center or right behind the strip center maybe and I do 00:21:17.859 --> 00:21:19.400 think that those you need 00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:23.529 a more compact use it's really easy to park real estate 00:21:23.529 --> 00:21:25.319 with a storage unit a 00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:28.019 set of storage units because you get a nice little cash 00:21:28.019 --> 00:21:29.079 flow pretty cheap to 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:32.250 build and you know you can have it parked there for 10 or 00:21:32.250 --> 00:21:33.319 20 years with 00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:35.619 cash flow and then when you have a real purpose or a real 00:21:35.619 --> 00:21:36.240 buyer for your 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:39.970 property you can you can easily demolish the one-story 00:21:39.970 --> 00:21:41.119 metal or masonry 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:44.849 buildings and you know sell it for some other retail use 00:21:44.849 --> 00:21:45.920 and I don't think we 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:53.200 want to encourage that in CMG. I think that honestly the EC 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:55.160 I the blue area off 00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:58.890 Dallas Drive there that's an artifact of that used to be an 00:21:58.890 --> 00:21:59.640 industrial area of 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:03.720 town that's right next to residential so saying we want to 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:04.440 have that 00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:07.099 protection there where most of the time ECI is rather 00:22:07.099 --> 00:22:08.279 industrial in nature 00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:14.099 commercial at least you know you've got a power plant the 00:22:14.099 --> 00:22:15.759 area around the 00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:20.220 hazardous waste treatment facility the you know those are 00:22:20.220 --> 00:22:21.839 all surrounding the 00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:26.420 dark blue but they're all that ECI EC whatever the other 00:22:26.420 --> 00:22:29.960 category ECE ECC so I 00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:34.569 could see it being more appropriate to have the single- 00:22:34.569 --> 00:22:35.440 story non air 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:38.569 conditioned units out off Mayhill Road or out off 00:22:38.569 --> 00:22:41.599 University near safety clean I 00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:47.089 think of anywhere that is CMG now it's it's going to 00:22:47.089 --> 00:22:48.799 eventually be a 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.019 neighborhood shopping center and that's where you don't 00:22:52.019 --> 00:22:54.119 want 10 acres of one 00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:58.539 story on air-conditioned cement block buildings you know 00:22:58.539 --> 00:22:59.880 you want you want 00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:04.079 probably a nicer retail look there to keep the value in the 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:05.400 area and you know 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:08.230 keep from being this thing that the neighborhood like like 00:23:08.230 --> 00:23:08.880 the Kroger on 00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:11.349 University I don't think you put storage units and you were 00:23:11.349 --> 00:23:12.119 there because it's so 00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:16.500 built out but people do walk to that Kroger or to that 00:23:16.500 --> 00:23:17.119 shopping center to the 00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:19.450 movie Tavern from the neighborhoods and if they had to walk 00:23:19.450 --> 00:23:20.400 past 10 acres of 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:24.539 squat buildings it would just it would be an impediment to 00:23:24.539 --> 00:23:25.880 getting to the movie 00:23:25.880 --> 00:23:30.740 Tavern or getting to the Kroger so those are my thoughts on 00:23:30.740 --> 00:23:32.960 on this limitation 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:36.329 Commissioner Roseau thank you I have a couple points of 00:23:36.329 --> 00:23:37.359 what's been discussed 00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:41.089 but before that I had some questions about the requirements 00:23:41.089 --> 00:23:44.160 initially on here 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.640 it says number two glass may not account for more than 70% 00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:48.799 of the exterior and 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:52.529 then the very next point is no overhead bay doors may be 00:23:52.529 --> 00:23:53.839 visible from an adjacent 00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:58.119 property or the streets it seemed contradicting and when I 00:23:58.119 --> 00:23:58.519 looked through 00:23:58.519 --> 00:24:01.440 the other attached applicants applications that the 00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:02.599 applicant provided 00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:06.329 they've never done that before they never suggested both of 00:24:06.329 --> 00:24:07.119 those be on the 00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:09.950 same one so McKinney has a requirement that no one should 00:24:09.950 --> 00:24:10.960 see a bay door but 00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:14.329 they don't have a glass requirement and flower mound like 00:24:14.329 --> 00:24:15.000 we just saw has a 00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:19.579 glass maximum but no unit visibility requirement and the 00:24:19.579 --> 00:24:20.759 two that we've seen 00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:25.329 tonight you can see storage unit doors in both those so the 00:24:25.329 --> 00:24:25.880 one on flower 00:24:25.880 --> 00:24:30.809 mountain 249 and 380 and the u-haul on I-35 you can see 00:24:30.809 --> 00:24:31.559 right through the glass 00:24:31.559 --> 00:24:35.289 to the unit so I'm trying to wonder how in the world can 00:24:35.289 --> 00:24:36.799 you build a building of 00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:40.960 70% windows and not see a bay door maybe I should clarify 00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:42.839 it can be up to 70% 00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:45.990 windows so they could if they've got a if they've got an 00:24:45.990 --> 00:24:47.200 entrance feature on 00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:52.130 the front where somebody walks in they can have 70% windows 00:24:52.130 --> 00:24:52.920 on that front 00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:56.079 facade but but it couldn't be none of the bay doors 00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:59.640 interior could be face out 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:03.059 from there so they would have to they would have to design 00:25:03.059 --> 00:25:04.240 their building so 00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:07.410 that any of those bay doors could not be facing toward the 00:25:07.410 --> 00:25:08.700 street through those 00:25:08.700 --> 00:25:13.450 windows okay maybe it'd be helpful if the applicant could 00:25:13.450 --> 00:25:15.119 show just helpful to me 00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:19.980 a McKinney project that there's no visible doors it seems 00:25:19.980 --> 00:25:20.519 like it just be a 00:25:20.519 --> 00:25:24.869 brick wall facing the street I can't visualize a self- 00:25:24.869 --> 00:25:26.759 service storage that 00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:31.240 doesn't show the bay doors to the street 00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:40.880 there's no windows on the upper stories I guess I was 00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:41.880 thinking more than a 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:44.250 day thank you I was thinking more on the ground level the 00:25:44.250 --> 00:25:45.920 doors so I don't know 00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:48.750 if yeah I guess if you're saying you're looking through a 00:25:48.750 --> 00:25:49.720 window and seeing a 00:25:49.720 --> 00:25:53.119 door was that prohibited they would have to design their 00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:55.559 their project so that no 00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:59.099 doors could be visible through those windows I guess that's 00:25:59.099 --> 00:26:00.160 limitation would 00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:02.990 have put I just it seems like a pretty strange limitation 00:26:02.990 --> 00:26:03.839 for self storage 00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:06.549 units that I've never seen before and I haven't seen an 00:26:06.549 --> 00:26:08.400 example of one I don't 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:11.839 know the aesthetics either way but this wouldn't even with 00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:12.519 an SUP wouldn't it 00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:16.250 doesn't so I guess we could override bay doors being 00:26:16.250 --> 00:26:18.079 visible it just seems odd 00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:19.799 to me when I was reading that because I've never I've never 00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:20.400 seen that before 00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:22.700 I don't know how aesthetically it looks to make that 00:26:22.700 --> 00:26:24.640 requirement and again they've 00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:28.009 never the applicant hasn't done that in the city prior to 00:26:28.009 --> 00:26:30.119 put both of those seems 00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:32.309 like they're encouraging a lot of windows but he had the 00:26:32.309 --> 00:26:33.559 same time I don't know 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:38.009 where you put those windows in the project but going to 00:26:38.009 --> 00:26:39.160 what has been 00:26:39.160 --> 00:26:41.039 talked about a little bit more in terms of the zoning I had 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:42.119 a question did the 00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:45.200 applicant come to the city with just the CMG requests or 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:46.880 did they also did they 00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:50.609 request the ECC or ECI in staffs discussion with the 00:26:50.609 --> 00:26:52.039 applicant we 00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:55.500 suggested we recommended the ECC and ECI due to the 00:26:55.500 --> 00:26:57.240 location of those zoning 00:26:57.240 --> 00:27:00.970 districts on a lot of our gateway corridors and and and in 00:27:00.970 --> 00:27:01.640 some of our 00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:05.029 high visibility areas so that was that was something with 00:27:05.029 --> 00:27:06.319 our discussion with 00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:08.640 the applicant yeah I guess going back to my thoughts from 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:10.039 last meeting about city 00:27:10.039 --> 00:27:14.319 looking for opportunities just add SUPs to zoning areas I'm 00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:15.400 not I'm not for 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:19.269 someone coming in and saying we want to kind of free up CMG 00:27:19.269 --> 00:27:20.599 category so we can 00:27:20.599 --> 00:27:22.569 do some more things in that in the city like oh well now 00:27:22.569 --> 00:27:23.559 that we've done this we 00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:27.089 can kind of shoehorn in it seems more requirements for SUPs 00:27:27.089 --> 00:27:27.960 to be put into 00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:30.259 other zoning requirements where by right they can go ahead 00:27:30.259 --> 00:27:31.000 and build and 00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:34.869 to Commissioner Taylor's point it seems like it's a decent 00:27:34.869 --> 00:27:36.519 use case to have 00:27:36.519 --> 00:27:40.089 used to call them squat buildings you know I know I'm sorry 00:27:40.089 --> 00:27:41.440 the one-story metal 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:47.430 buildings on ECC and ECI so I'm not totally on board with 00:27:47.430 --> 00:27:48.440 the city just 00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:52.170 deciding that we should go ahead and add more SUP 00:27:52.170 --> 00:27:53.920 requirements to zoning so those 00:27:53.920 --> 00:28:00.339 were my thoughts on this thus far well I'll echo 00:28:00.339 --> 00:28:03.880 Commissioner Roselle's 00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:08.740 comments I was going to come back to the SUP requirement 00:28:08.740 --> 00:28:09.960 being added and in 00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:15.670 several of these zoning categories it's almost like where 00:28:15.670 --> 00:28:17.160 we were last meeting 00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:20.279 in the multifamily of we're kind of painting with a broad 00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:20.960 brush that 00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:27.599 everything is an SUP over the top of it I would be in favor 00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:29.519 of doing the SUP but 00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:33.880 I am concerned about the L35 because I think it's going to 00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:35.440 create some of the 00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:40.630 very things that this Commission has had a big issue with 00:28:40.630 --> 00:28:42.279 the last several 00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:45.430 meetings about having very tall structures right next to 00:28:45.430 --> 00:28:46.200 residential 00:28:46.200 --> 00:28:49.569 areas and so I think it's almost contradictory that we 00:28:49.569 --> 00:28:50.759 require them to be 00:28:50.759 --> 00:28:54.190 air-conditioned to make some tall and then they're right 00:28:54.190 --> 00:28:55.480 next to residential 00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:58.589 and we have an SUP and then people are gonna be I don't 00:28:58.589 --> 00:28:59.599 want a 65 story or 65 00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:04.109 foot tall building looking in my backyard we required to be 00:29:04.109 --> 00:29:04.759 air-conditioned 00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:07.470 and then people want to say well I don't want it to be 00:29:07.470 --> 00:29:08.880 three stories I want over 00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:13.440 35 feet tall well to Commissioner else's point then it's 00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:14.400 not feasible to build 00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:18.130 and how do we get around all of this stuff versus you just 00:29:18.130 --> 00:29:19.279 have an SUP on it 00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:24.390 you get to have a say in the design and the aesthetics of 00:29:24.390 --> 00:29:25.559 the building without 00:29:25.559 --> 00:29:30.839 the L35 so give me some feedback on if we pull the L35 out 00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:32.319 and just keep an SUP 00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:39.279 on that if that gives the potential applicant a little more 00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:40.359 flexibility 00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:44.390 without that requirement that is certainly something that 00:29:44.390 --> 00:29:46.000 you could have 00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:50.829 as part of your recommendation and these were these were 00:29:50.829 --> 00:29:51.839 the limitation was 00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:54.150 designed based upon somewhat other cities have been done 00:29:54.150 --> 00:29:54.799 based upon the 00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:57.960 benchmark analysis it was also something that the applicant 00:29:57.960 --> 00:29:58.960 many of those were 00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:04.450 things that they had as part of their requests so so we 00:30:04.450 --> 00:30:08.279 felt like the L35 00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:12.569 allowed the property or required the use to develop in a 00:30:12.569 --> 00:30:13.759 more commercial way 00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:18.359 less industrial use less industrial look particularly since 00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:19.559 if it was going in a 00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:24.500 commercial area we would want it to look be designed in a 00:30:24.500 --> 00:30:25.720 way that was that was 00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:32.009 in a commercial aesthetic so so that was the intent of L35 00:30:32.009 --> 00:30:32.680 in order to 00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:35.769 encourage those those facilities to to be able to fit in 00:30:35.769 --> 00:30:37.079 with the character of 00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:40.349 what a commercial area is intended to look like. But we can 00:30:40.349 --> 00:30:41.440 't do that with the 00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:47.440 SUP? Well and I think the SUP is then is an additional 00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:49.119 layer that would look as I 00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:52.509 think Commissioner Beck said is look at as a site specific 00:30:52.509 --> 00:30:53.400 and so if there was 00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:56.960 something unique to the character of that particular area 00:30:56.960 --> 00:30:57.920 there would be there 00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:01.289 could be additional conditions but just as a baseline to 00:31:01.289 --> 00:31:02.279 have it develop in a 00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:04.299 commercial way was the intent of the limit. I think I'm 00:31:04.299 --> 00:31:04.920 gonna quit asking 00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:09.000 questions I can see that then you can tell I'm getting 00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:10.839 nervous. I can see you're getting nervous. I just want to 00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:14.190 make a point of order in that. We need to save this for 00:31:14.190 --> 00:31:16.990 public session because this is getting a little bit further 00:31:16.990 --> 00:31:18.599 in or a lot further in 00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:22.710 then clarification is on the agenda. Commissioner Rossell 00:31:22.710 --> 00:31:23.319 do you have a 00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:26.029 clarification we have deeper discussion. I had a question 00:31:26.029 --> 00:31:27.000 for you and then maybe 00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:31.349 legal can stop me my tracks it's it seems it seems like you 00:31:31.349 --> 00:31:32.960 were asking or 00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:38.369 potentially suggesting remove the L35 as a way to ease the 00:31:38.369 --> 00:31:39.960 the pushback of height 00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:43.829 requirement but there's no high requirement in L35 so when 00:31:43.829 --> 00:31:44.640 we still have 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:47.200 the same kind of pushback when we have the SUP hearing. 00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:49.759 Well I guess can we 00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:52.140 discuss this you want to talk about it in public? I think 00:31:52.140 --> 00:31:52.880 that we should talk 00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:54.849 about this in public. Okay. This is something they'll want 00:31:54.849 --> 00:31:58.400 to argue. Sorry to get us off track. Thank you. 00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:01.099 Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. Let me just throw 00:32:01.099 --> 00:32:02.559 something out there you know for 00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:06.289 the concerns here about looks and everything. How many 00:32:06.289 --> 00:32:07.680 times have you driven past the 00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:12.480 one on 380 35 and the other one and it bothered you that 00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:13.559 you saw what you saw 00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:16.619 there did you even think about it also just I understand 00:32:16.619 --> 00:32:18.000 the concerns there and 00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:20.940 there probably would be some concerns with neighbors but I 00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:22.839 've driven past those 00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:25.990 facilities and never thought about them twice the way they 00:32:25.990 --> 00:32:27.400 are so just just for 00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:40.690 what it's worth. Any other questions for Julie? Thank you. 00:32:40.690 --> 00:32:43.960 The next two items C and D 00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:47.480 have been post well actually item C has been withdrawn by 00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:49.519 the applicant and then 00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:52.200 item D is being postponed there's a request from the 00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:53.400 applicant to postpone 00:32:53.400 --> 00:33:01.130 it to the April 26th meeting. So I guess with that we have 00:33:01.130 --> 00:33:03.000 item E which is a 00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:11.640 Zahni request for the cube properties. All right this is Z 00:33:11.640 --> 00:33:16.240 1630. Okay so the subject 00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:20.809 property is located on mid-block on Neff Street just north 00:33:20.809 --> 00:33:22.240 of Greenlee. It's 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:29.000 situated south of UNT campus between UNT and I-35. The 00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:30.440 request is to 00:33:30.440 --> 00:33:36.079 consider a rezoning from downtown Residual 1, DR 1 to DR 2 00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:40.039 district. The 00:33:40.039 --> 00:33:43.000 subject property does have a zoning designation of DR 1. 00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:44.799 The proposed use is 00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:47.410 multifamily and it's not permitted within DR 1 so the 00:33:47.410 --> 00:33:48.119 applicant is 00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:54.700 requesting to rezone to DR 2. So when we look at the 00:33:54.700 --> 00:33:57.680 subject property and and the 00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:01.920 adjacent land uses is in zoning within a kind of a 200 foot 00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:03.039 boundary so if we zoom 00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:05.940 in close to the subject property and what's around it we 00:34:05.940 --> 00:34:07.400 can see that as I 00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:11.719 said before the property is is mid-block on Neff Street and 00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:13.079 it is surrounded by 00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:19.460 DR 1. The properties to the north to to the east and to the 00:34:19.460 --> 00:34:20.719 west are in south 00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:24.590 are all DR 1 and they're developed with single-family homes 00:34:24.590 --> 00:34:26.880 and also duplexes. A 00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:31.389 little further out you have DR 2 district along Avenue A 00:34:31.389 --> 00:34:32.000 and you have 00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:35.219 that's being currently being developed with multifamily and 00:34:35.219 --> 00:34:36.199 then you also have 00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:40.239 DCG district with it which is developed with multifamily. 00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:41.699 When we zoom out a 00:34:41.699 --> 00:34:45.480 little further so around 500 feet from the subject property 00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:46.500 the surrounding 00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:50.730 neighborhood comes a little more into focus and as you can 00:34:50.730 --> 00:34:52.039 see so once again 00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:55.769 here's the subject properties you can see the streets 00:34:55.769 --> 00:34:57.320 surrounding it have a 00:34:57.320 --> 00:35:01.639 zoning designation of DR 1 and it's a pretty consistent 00:35:01.639 --> 00:35:02.920 zoning designation 00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:07.320 within the heart of the neighborhood. On the edges there 00:35:07.320 --> 00:35:08.360 have there is zoning as 00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:13.610 I said the DR 2 and the DCG which which do have multifamily 00:35:13.610 --> 00:35:14.920 development also 00:35:14.920 --> 00:35:17.969 along I-35 there's some commercial development also an 00:35:17.969 --> 00:35:18.760 institutional 00:35:18.760 --> 00:35:25.300 facility. And then when we look at the larger area we see 00:35:25.300 --> 00:35:26.920 now now UNT comes 00:35:26.920 --> 00:35:30.679 into view as well as that highway corridor and you can see 00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:31.519 how all that 00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:34.420 zoning fits together so we've got this this area right here 00:35:34.420 --> 00:35:35.619 that has the DR 1 00:35:35.619 --> 00:35:40.659 zoning with the subject property the the DR 2 and DCG along 00:35:40.659 --> 00:35:42.079 Avenue A along as in 00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:47.960 also on the on the larger corridors near UNT. But at the 00:35:47.960 --> 00:35:50.559 block level it is it does 00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:54.289 have a really consistent zoning pattern of DR 1 and when 00:35:54.289 --> 00:35:55.719 staff looked at it we 00:35:55.719 --> 00:35:59.780 felt that DR 2 would introduce a new zoning district into 00:35:59.780 --> 00:36:00.840 that existing 00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:03.670 cohesive pattern. I mean it would break the continuity of 00:36:03.670 --> 00:36:05.239 the zoning and create 00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:09.210 an isolated zoning district. This could potentially result 00:36:09.210 --> 00:36:09.440 in some in 00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:13.309 incompatible development at the block level and on this 00:36:13.309 --> 00:36:15.599 particular street. When 00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:17.989 we looked at the future land use map this is neighborhood 00:36:17.989 --> 00:36:18.559 university 00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:21.650 compatible area I know we're all getting very familiar with 00:36:21.650 --> 00:36:23.480 this area and and 00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:27.210 this is one of those areas that we want to see compatible 00:36:27.210 --> 00:36:28.880 form between that 00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:31.960 serves the university as well as the neighborhood areas and 00:36:31.960 --> 00:36:32.880 that density and 00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:37.329 commercial development within this area are often 00:36:37.329 --> 00:36:40.039 appropriate and something that 00:36:40.039 --> 00:36:44.210 that we want to see within this area. However because of 00:36:44.210 --> 00:36:45.119 this really 00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:49.070 consistent zoning around this subject property and and the 00:36:49.070 --> 00:36:50.079 fact that it's 00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:57.429 developed consistent with that DR 1 DR 2 would introduce 00:36:57.429 --> 00:36:59.440 that new development 00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.530 pattern and potentially compromise the integrity of this 00:37:02.530 --> 00:37:03.639 existing neighborhood. 00:37:03.639 --> 00:37:07.369 So really that current zoning pattern and just how cohesive 00:37:07.369 --> 00:37:07.679 and 00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:11.889 compatible is really lends itself to maintaining that DR 1 00:37:11.889 --> 00:37:12.920 zoning district. 00:37:12.920 --> 00:37:17.380 I'm looking at some of those uses I know there's a 00:37:17.380 --> 00:37:20.079 comprehensive list of uses in 00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:25.030 your backup we'll just look at the at the variations. DR 1 00:37:25.030 --> 00:37:26.619 is I tend to think 00:37:26.619 --> 00:37:31.960 of it as kind of an urban single-family zoning district 00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:34.199 because it it does 00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:37.570 permit the single-family zoning doesn't permit multi-family 00:37:37.570 --> 00:37:38.360 so I tend to look at 00:37:38.360 --> 00:37:43.860 it as an urban neighborhood zoning district. Commissioner 00:37:43.860 --> 00:37:44.219 Bec. Thank you 00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:48.980 Chair. On that then are you saying DR 1 wouldn't allow du 00:37:48.980 --> 00:37:51.079 plexes? It does permit 00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:54.199 duplexes and so maybe and maybe I maybe I should have added 00:37:54.199 --> 00:37:55.559 that in so yes DR 1 00:37:55.559 --> 00:37:59.239 does permit duplexes and DR 2 also permits duplexes which 00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:00.420 is why I netted it 00:38:00.420 --> 00:38:03.099 out of the table because those are similar uses within the 00:38:03.099 --> 00:38:03.920 two. Would four 00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:07.360 plexes be stretching in a DR 1? A four plex is actually 00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:08.480 considered multi-family 00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:11.530 within our development code. Three or more dwelling units 00:38:11.530 --> 00:38:12.480 on a single parcel 00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:18.579 is considered multi-family. Okay but your density is for DR 00:38:18.579 --> 00:38:21.480 1 is 8 that's 8 00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:25.760 units per acre is that correct? Okay and a unit is what a 00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:27.599 bedroom or an entire 00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:34.190 apartment? It would be an entire living, eating, bathroom 00:38:34.190 --> 00:38:35.559 and sleeping so it would 00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:39.639 be a unit is an entire dwelling unit so. Okay it wouldn't 00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:42.199 be an SRO type thing. No a 00:38:42.199 --> 00:38:44.829 dwelling unit would include all of those things that it 00:38:44.829 --> 00:38:45.679 would take to to live 00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:50.440 there. Okay but now in the DR 2 the maximum density is 30 00:38:50.440 --> 00:38:51.800 per acre and we're talking 00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:55.530 about less than a half acre there so we conceivably 15 00:38:55.530 --> 00:38:57.079 people could live there 00:38:57.079 --> 00:39:00.659 and that would be violating because it couldn't have any 00:39:00.659 --> 00:39:02.159 more than 15 if we're 00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:07.840 we're saying the density is 30 per acre. Well and I think 00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:08.599 and I think I think I know where you're 00:39:08.599 --> 00:39:13.699 going so DR 2 does permit does calculate density based upon 00:39:13.699 --> 00:39:14.719 number of bedrooms so 00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:18.239 in DR 2 as well as DCG and I know y'all seen limitation 5. 00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:19.440 Limitation 5 is that 00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:22.610 each bedroom equals one half dwelling unit so that a two- 00:39:22.610 --> 00:39:23.679 bedroom apartment 00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:26.550 would be one dwelling unit a four-bedroom apartment would 00:39:26.550 --> 00:39:26.920 be two 00:39:26.920 --> 00:39:29.960 dwelling units. One bedroom apartment would be half a 00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:33.079 dwelling unit. That's what I was trying to get. Yes so that 00:39:33.079 --> 00:39:34.320 really doesn't change the 00:39:34.320 --> 00:39:36.440 definition of what a dwelling unit is within the 00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:37.719 development code it's just 00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:40.809 how they how they calculate it within those districts that 00:39:40.809 --> 00:39:41.960 have limitation 5. 00:39:41.960 --> 00:39:46.639 Okay. Clear as my. Thank you. So DR 2 does permit multif 00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:48.760 amily with limitation 5. DR 2 00:39:48.760 --> 00:39:51.590 also permits some commercial uses so those neighborhoods 00:39:51.590 --> 00:39:52.440 serving commercial 00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:55.269 uses it permits retail sales and service and professional 00:39:55.269 --> 00:39:56.360 services and offices 00:39:56.360 --> 00:40:00.420 those things that you want to see in a neighborhood at a 00:40:00.420 --> 00:40:03.239 small scale and 00:40:03.239 --> 00:40:06.550 permits veterinary clinics and then it you know this the 00:40:06.550 --> 00:40:07.360 scale of the of the 00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:11.530 develop of the two zoning districts are are somewhat 00:40:11.530 --> 00:40:14.000 similar. When we looked at 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:16.920 the mobility of the area so in the yellow is generally 00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:17.920 where the site is 00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:21.150 it's it's a little zoomed out so so it's a little larger 00:40:21.150 --> 00:40:22.480 than but it's generally 00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:28.110 where this the site is. The area has a lot of per the 00:40:28.110 --> 00:40:31.119 mobility plan has collector 00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:35.239 streets that help residents of the area move through the 00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:37.340 area so Eagle is 00:40:37.340 --> 00:40:43.929 a collector you've got Collins Bernard Welch Avenue a so 00:40:43.929 --> 00:40:44.840 those those 00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:48.829 collectors help you move through that area. The green 00:40:48.829 --> 00:40:51.199 circle is a is about a 00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:53.820 five to ten minute walk depending on how fast you walk it's 00:40:53.820 --> 00:40:54.599 about a quarter mile 00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:58.039 so as you can see it's it's it's within walking distance of 00:40:58.039 --> 00:41:00.679 the UNT campus. It's 00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:04.409 also served by transit facilities and as well as some 00:41:04.409 --> 00:41:06.159 existing and proposed by 00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:14.500 bike routes. So based upon that that that land use analysis 00:41:14.500 --> 00:41:15.400 the the looking at 00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:19.849 what's around the subject property staff has recommends 00:41:19.849 --> 00:41:21.320 denial of the request 00:41:21.320 --> 00:41:24.199 because of the fact that the request would create an 00:41:24.199 --> 00:41:25.639 isolated zoning district 00:41:25.639 --> 00:41:29.230 which could impede the development of the of the area and 00:41:29.230 --> 00:41:30.360 and potentially 00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:33.070 prevent it from developing in a cohesive manner so I'll 00:41:33.070 --> 00:41:34.199 stand for any questions. 00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:39.320 Oh sorry one more notification like wasn't quite finished 00:41:39.320 --> 00:41:40.400 here we set out 00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:44.079 public notification we've received one letter in opposition 00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:44.320 and that's it. 00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:47.590 I'll stand for any questions. Commissioner Taylor. Thank 00:41:47.590 --> 00:41:49.760 you chair. Could you pull 00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:56.489 back up the the full neighborhood zoning map? So in this 00:41:56.489 --> 00:41:57.639 one okay that goes to 00:41:57.639 --> 00:42:03.469 Eagle. There it's really hard to tell what's dr1 and dr2. 00:42:03.469 --> 00:42:04.159 Those grains are 00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:10.239 very very subtle yes. Yeah so this is D this this that's dr 00:42:10.239 --> 00:42:11.719 2. And then 00:42:11.719 --> 00:42:15.760 there's one that faces Fannin and there's two facing 00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:17.960 Collins over I think 00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:25.570 over a little like east east of Avenue A just barely like 00:42:25.570 --> 00:42:26.920 one parcel east of 00:42:26.920 --> 00:42:35.460 Avenue A. Collins and Avenue A so right here. Fannin and 00:42:35.460 --> 00:42:37.039 Avenue A. Fannin and Avenue A. 00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:42.090 Yes right here. Yeah no go a little bit east right there. 00:42:42.090 --> 00:42:43.199 Okay so that so you 00:42:43.199 --> 00:42:46.570 have dr2 in the middle of the block there but it's across 00:42:46.570 --> 00:42:47.360 the street from 00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:52.849 dr2 and then it backs up to dr2. These have these have been 00:42:52.849 --> 00:42:53.599 done you know 00:42:53.599 --> 00:43:00.360 yeah piece by piece. We we haven't ever really looked at 00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:01.559 rezoning this area 00:43:01.559 --> 00:43:07.050 categorically but I think I've probably seen six or seven 00:43:07.050 --> 00:43:08.639 cases. The apartment 00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:13.829 complex up on Eagle was a rezone. The one on Cleveland was 00:43:13.829 --> 00:43:16.239 a big rezone. You know 00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:19.289 there there have been a bunch of these little two or one or 00:43:19.289 --> 00:43:20.400 two or four parcels 00:43:20.400 --> 00:43:24.349 just in the neighborhood going dr1 to dr2 or dr2 to you 00:43:24.349 --> 00:43:27.440 know DCG usually and I 00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.980 think that DCN was also a rezone at the corner of Bernard 00:43:30.980 --> 00:43:34.280 and Fannin. So it seems 00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:38.039 like what we've been allowing to happen is is the piecemeal 00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:38.840 rezone into 00:43:38.840 --> 00:43:41.989 denser more dense categories and it hasn't been consistent 00:43:41.989 --> 00:43:42.840 it hasn't been 00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:45.719 one parcel at a time. It'll be the middle of the block and 00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:46.519 then the block 00:43:46.519 --> 00:43:49.820 behind it and then it'll fill back in and cover the entire 00:43:49.820 --> 00:43:50.599 you know the the 00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:54.590 entire block or there will be a large development that'll 00:43:54.590 --> 00:43:55.760 pick up three or 00:43:55.760 --> 00:43:58.289 four different zoning categories and rezone all of them in 00:43:58.289 --> 00:43:58.840 order to you know 00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:04.559 build their large development. Is there any plan to make a 00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:06.760 cohesive long-term 00:44:06.760 --> 00:44:10.639 rezoning of this area? There's actually a small area plan 00:44:10.639 --> 00:44:11.960 for kind of this entire 00:44:11.960 --> 00:44:15.349 ring around campus that's in Chandria maybe I'll speak 00:44:15.349 --> 00:44:16.239 better about this that 00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:19.320 is I think moving forward so I think I think yes you're 00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:20.440 right and there is 00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:24.809 there is a beginning of a process to really look at this 00:44:24.809 --> 00:44:26.480 entire ring around 00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:31.719 UNT comprehensively to determine what is what is the vision 00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:32.559 for the area are 00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:35.929 there are there smaller character areas and and and how it 00:44:35.929 --> 00:44:37.000 and how it needs to 00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:40.139 move forward in terms of zoning and use. And that process 00:44:40.139 --> 00:44:42.000 has been ongoing since 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:47.800 December of 2015? Actually we just kicked off the RFQ on 00:44:47.800 --> 00:44:49.480 Monday or was it Monday 00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:53.019 two days ago. It's a big project. It's actually underway it 00:44:53.019 --> 00:44:53.840 's currently underway 00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:58.239 but I do want to speak to the issue about the piecemeal 00:44:58.239 --> 00:44:59.440 zoning even though 00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:03.170 we've done that in the past it wasn't appropriate and we 00:45:03.170 --> 00:45:04.440 would not want to 00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:08.500 encourage that and I don't think we can eat we can legally 00:45:08.500 --> 00:45:10.119 do it at this point. 00:45:10.119 --> 00:45:15.260 If it's city initiated then we have to be careful that we 00:45:15.260 --> 00:45:17.039 're not spot zoning 00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:20.590 which we're all familiar with I know we had a training on 00:45:20.590 --> 00:45:23.280 that earlier so but 00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:26.860 absent that if we have a legitimate interest in rezoning a 00:45:26.860 --> 00:45:27.760 property for 00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:30.219 a specific purpose like we want it in compliance with our 00:45:30.219 --> 00:45:31.119 future land use map 00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:33.949 or whatever like we have that subcommittee that you were on 00:45:33.949 --> 00:45:34.300 Commissioner 00:45:34.300 --> 00:45:39.239 Taylor then that is legal that wouldn't be considered spot 00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:40.840 zoning. So just to 00:45:40.840 --> 00:45:45.800 clarify if we if in this case they could rezone this one 00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:47.159 parcel and being 00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:50.530 compliance with state law? Yeah they're making the request 00:45:50.530 --> 00:45:52.320 correct? It's not a 00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:56.050 city initiated zoning. And as long as it complies with our 00:45:56.050 --> 00:45:56.960 all of our 00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:59.800 requirements then yes. Okay and I think it would be a 00:45:59.800 --> 00:46:00.960 challenge I think it would 00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:04.170 be a stretch to say DR 1 next to DR 2 is spot zoning 00:46:04.170 --> 00:46:05.480 because they are very 00:46:05.480 --> 00:46:10.659 similar. 150 uses only like six differ so I don't think we 00:46:10.659 --> 00:46:11.159 have to worry too 00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:13.760 much about that. Yeah you would look at the surrounding 00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:16.320 adjacency and our flume 00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:19.420 and all of those things and the comprehensive land use plan 00:46:19.420 --> 00:46:20.280 . Right and it 00:46:20.280 --> 00:46:24.150 is consistent with all those. I want to point out while we 00:46:24.150 --> 00:46:25.239 're on the subject of 00:46:25.239 --> 00:46:29.599 which zoning categories the property in the southwest 00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:31.280 corner this block is 00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:39.880 actually DCG. So we have even a higher zoning category you 00:46:39.880 --> 00:46:41.280 know not even one 00:46:41.280 --> 00:46:46.230 full lot away from this particular site and we also have 00:46:46.230 --> 00:46:47.880 the DR 2 up in the 00:46:47.880 --> 00:46:52.679 northwest corner that's in this same block so I'm with you 00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:53.960 I don't think it's 00:46:53.960 --> 00:46:59.840 a big stretch to bump it up to DR 2 if that's where the 00:46:59.840 --> 00:47:00.920 Commission sees fit. 00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:06.039 Commissioner Ellis. Thank you Chair. So on the corner I 00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:08.019 think it's Norman and 00:47:08.019 --> 00:47:17.079 Greenlee. Right here? Yeah so I mean so that's DR 1 so I 00:47:17.079 --> 00:47:19.480 think there they've 00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:21.780 they've pushed the limits of how they've developed that 00:47:21.780 --> 00:47:22.940 particular corner because 00:47:22.940 --> 00:47:25.469 it certainly looks like multifamily but what it must be is 00:47:25.469 --> 00:47:26.840 multiple duplexes but 00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:29.199 it's certainly more than one in it they all kind of look 00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:31.000 the same and seem like 00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:38.679 they are a group. As well I think to the north on Neff I 00:47:38.679 --> 00:47:40.039 want to say on a corner 00:47:40.039 --> 00:47:45.760 Collins and something. This one right here? I feel like it 00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:47.760 was on the east side 00:47:47.760 --> 00:47:52.920 but I think similar right I think they're they're multiple 00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:53.920 duplexes then 00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:59.809 just on separate lots which is yeah so so I guess I'm 00:47:59.809 --> 00:48:02.559 trying to get to I don't 00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:05.389 see this as a big stretch of what they're requesting I mean 00:48:05.389 --> 00:48:06.000 I understand 00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:09.369 you know in your presentation of why you want to deny but 00:48:09.369 --> 00:48:10.599 there's an awful lot 00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:13.969 going around on that block that looks and feels like multif 00:48:13.969 --> 00:48:14.800 amily and just 00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:19.320 isn't. I want to go on the kind of I think where 00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:21.440 Commissioner Ellis is going we had 00:48:21.440 --> 00:48:25.559 a lot of conversation with Park 7s about what looks like 00:48:25.559 --> 00:48:26.800 single family that 00:48:26.800 --> 00:48:30.170 actually has multiple meters on it and all that do we have 00:48:30.170 --> 00:48:31.440 any idea of what 00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:35.170 some of the actual uses are around this particular site 00:48:35.170 --> 00:48:36.360 even though we have 00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:39.519 multifamily or duplexes scattered around at some of the 00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:40.840 homes I don't know where 00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:44.619 they've been converted or there a traditional family in 00:48:44.619 --> 00:48:45.760 there or it's got 00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:48.849 four meters on it do we even know that for additional 00:48:48.849 --> 00:48:50.559 background clarification? 00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:55.650 I'm not aware of how they are each end of the or how those 00:48:55.650 --> 00:48:56.760 individual 00:48:57.480 --> 00:49:01.530 structures are being whether they are whether they are 00:49:01.530 --> 00:49:03.000 being used as single 00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:07.409 family or as or as multifamily you know converted to multif 00:49:07.409 --> 00:49:10.519 amily. Okay any other 00:49:10.519 --> 00:49:18.320 questions for Julie? Thank you. Thank you. 00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:32.119 Okay with that I will close our work set close our work 00:49:32.119 --> 00:49:37.840 session at 525 and we'll 00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:43.800 reconvene at 630 in council chambers. Thank you. 00:50:03.960 --> 00:50:07.239 Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton Planning and 00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:08.400 Zoning Commission 00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:12.920 meeting for April the 12th 2017. This meeting has been duly 00:50:12.920 --> 00:50:14.079 posted and we do 00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:17.130 have a quorum present and I'm going to call our meeting to 00:50:17.130 --> 00:50:19.280 order at 630. Our 00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:21.579 first order of business will be to stand and give the 00:50:21.579 --> 00:50:22.559 pledge to the US and the 00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:25.159 Texas flag. 00:50:33.960 --> 00:50:39.769 One Nation, Under God, Indivisible, with Liberty and 00:50:39.769 --> 00:50:45.400 Justice for all. Honor the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance 00:50:45.400 --> 00:50:53.159 to the Texas One State, Under God, One and Indivisible. 00:50:57.719 --> 00:51:01.679 Just as a point of order we do not have any minutes to be 00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:04.199 approved this evening so 00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:09.199 that will move us to our consent agenda. 00:51:12.199 --> 00:51:19.059 Commissioner Beck? I move we approve consent agenda. Okay 00:51:19.059 --> 00:51:20.519 Commissioner Oselle? 00:51:20.519 --> 00:51:24.400 Second. Okay we have a first and a second for approval. Any 00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:25.400 discussion or 00:51:25.400 --> 00:51:32.789 questions? Seeing none we'll call for a vote on the board. 00:51:32.789 --> 00:51:41.239 Motion carries six to 00:51:41.239 --> 00:51:46.329 zero. Again as a point of order we don't have any 00:51:46.329 --> 00:51:48.719 individual consent items or 00:51:48.719 --> 00:51:53.300 consideration items so we'll move on to public hearings and 00:51:53.300 --> 00:51:54.760 I want to announce 00:51:54.760 --> 00:51:58.769 and we don't have very many people here this evening that 00:51:58.769 --> 00:52:01.800 we have item C has 00:52:01.800 --> 00:52:08.599 been withdrawn for this evening. I will move us to item A. 00:52:08.599 --> 00:52:09.559 I'm going to open the 00:52:09.559 --> 00:52:15.050 public hearing for FR 16 - 0029 and call on Haley for 00:52:15.050 --> 00:52:17.280 presentation. 00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:31.809 Good evening so this is a final replat for the Teasley Lane 00:52:31.809 --> 00:52:34.840 High School 00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:39.070 edition. The purpose of the plat is to take one lot that 00:52:39.070 --> 00:52:40.719 was formerly platted 00:52:40.719 --> 00:52:44.019 and two unplatted parcels and create a single lot for the 00:52:44.019 --> 00:52:45.440 purposes of expansion 00:52:45.440 --> 00:52:45.440 at the high school and I can answer any questions. Any 00:52:45.440 --> 00:52:54.239 questions for staff? Thank 00:52:54.239 --> 00:52:59.239 you Haley. This is a public hearing so is there anyone who 00:52:59.239 --> 00:53:00.159 would like to speak on 00:53:00.159 --> 00:53:05.679 this item this evening? I have no cards and seeing none I 00:53:05.679 --> 00:53:06.699 will close the public 00:53:06.699 --> 00:53:12.190 hearing and open the floor for discussion or motion. 00:53:12.190 --> 00:53:14.320 Commissioner Hudsworth? Move 00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:21.039 approval of FR 16 - 0029. Okay Commissioner Ellis? I will 00:53:21.039 --> 00:53:22.119 second. Okay we have a 00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:28.409 first and a second for approval. Any discussion? Seeing 00:53:28.409 --> 00:53:29.760 none I'll call for a 00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:32.280 vote on the board. 00:53:38.360 --> 00:53:44.880 Motion carries 6 to 0. Move us to item B. I will open the 00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:47.239 public hearing for Z 17 - 00:53:47.239 --> 00:53:54.119 001 and I will call on Julie Wyatt for presentation. 00:53:58.559 --> 00:54:00.519 Good evening I'm Julie Wyatt senior planner with the City 00:54:00.519 --> 00:54:03.079 of Denton. Would 00:54:03.079 --> 00:54:06.130 you like to go over the full presentation again or did you 00:54:06.130 --> 00:54:06.760 want to do 00:54:06.760 --> 00:54:12.039 just a short version? Okay all right so this is Z 17-1 self 00:54:12.039 --> 00:54:14.119 -service storage. The 00:54:14.119 --> 00:54:18.260 request is to amend sub chapter 5 pertaining to the self-st 00:54:18.260 --> 00:54:19.280 orage service 00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:24.769 the self-service storage use based upon the the 00:54:24.769 --> 00:54:26.679 considerations that we discussed 00:54:26.679 --> 00:54:29.960 in work session. Staff does recommend approval with a 00:54:29.960 --> 00:54:33.000 condition that to add an 00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:36.869 additional limitation to L 35 that states all individually 00:54:36.869 --> 00:54:37.719 leased storage 00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:40.800 units must be contained within a climate controlled 00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:42.400 building and I'll stand for 00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:51.670 any questions. Commissioner Tabin. So to continue the 00:54:51.670 --> 00:54:52.440 discussions we're having in 00:54:52.440 --> 00:54:56.639 the work session so L 35 has has a lot of other 00:54:56.639 --> 00:54:57.800 requirements. Can you pull up 00:54:57.800 --> 00:55:04.460 the list of all the requirements? I think we've just to 00:55:04.460 --> 00:55:06.360 review for everybody 00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:08.059 that might have missed the work session we've identified a 00:55:08.059 --> 00:55:08.719 few different kind of 00:55:08.719 --> 00:55:15.989 conflicts here. The first is these limitations the these 00:55:15.989 --> 00:55:18.159 limitations here 00:55:18.159 --> 00:55:21.550 maybe it's the next page is the next slide so this this 00:55:21.550 --> 00:55:23.880 page requires that no 00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:27.269 doors be visible from adjacent properties right-of-ways. 00:55:27.269 --> 00:55:27.920 The slide 00:55:27.920 --> 00:55:31.800 before it has restrictions on glass but leans toward a 00:55:31.800 --> 00:55:33.400 glass fronted kind of 00:55:33.400 --> 00:55:39.719 facade that would probably allow you to see the doors. L 35 00:55:39.719 --> 00:55:41.360 also has the air 00:55:41.360 --> 00:55:44.300 conditioned requirement and an air like in a climate 00:55:44.300 --> 00:55:45.880 controlled storage 00:55:45.880 --> 00:55:48.179 requirement. That's staff's recommendation to add to it. 00:55:48.179 --> 00:55:51.039 Yes sir. Yeah and so and that 00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:55.570 that necessarily makes the shape of the building kind of 00:55:55.570 --> 00:55:57.559 smaller and taller just 00:55:57.559 --> 00:56:04.679 for energy efficiency and so I think I the way I see 00:56:04.679 --> 00:56:07.920 through this is in CMG 00:56:07.920 --> 00:56:11.880 which is our retail zoning grocery stores and strip retail 00:56:11.880 --> 00:56:13.239 I think that the 00:56:13.239 --> 00:56:17.230 climate control restriction might be appropriate. I think 00:56:17.230 --> 00:56:19.139 that the seeing the 00:56:19.139 --> 00:56:23.179 doors visible maybe on ground floor but having a window 00:56:23.179 --> 00:56:24.480 where you can see 00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:28.210 through a window and then see a door is I don't think that 00:56:28.210 --> 00:56:29.719 's necessary at all I 00:56:29.719 --> 00:56:32.110 think that's that doesn't really make sense it's not not 00:56:32.110 --> 00:56:33.599 really an eyesore. I 00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:37.469 like the masonry restrictions that was the first very first 00:56:37.469 --> 00:56:40.800 one and the outdoor 00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:43.369 storage and fencing I think that's all fine. I do also 00:56:43.369 --> 00:56:44.519 think we need to separate 00:56:44.519 --> 00:56:50.119 ECI and ECC some of those happen to be near residential 00:56:50.119 --> 00:56:50.920 areas but they're kind 00:56:50.920 --> 00:56:54.340 of intended intended for commercial use and I think in a 00:56:54.340 --> 00:56:56.519 commercial area we 00:56:56.519 --> 00:56:58.429 don't need the climate control and I don't know that we 00:56:58.429 --> 00:56:59.280 necessarily need the 00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:03.650 SUP I don't know who else's thoughts are on that. Those are 00:57:03.650 --> 00:57:06.719 all my comments. 00:57:06.880 --> 00:57:12.920 Anyone else? Well I'll speak then I'll chime in with 00:57:12.920 --> 00:57:14.440 Commissioner Tedder. My 00:57:14.440 --> 00:57:18.500 concern is adding the SUP requirement on top of just across 00:57:18.500 --> 00:57:19.679 the board these 00:57:19.679 --> 00:57:23.909 three areas. I'd like to have some more discussion this 00:57:23.909 --> 00:57:26.840 evening and I'm leaning 00:57:26.840 --> 00:57:30.059 towards the possibility and I don't know if there's a time 00:57:30.059 --> 00:57:31.360 crunch on this that we 00:57:31.360 --> 00:57:34.409 continue it and have some of these things addressed and 00:57:34.409 --> 00:57:35.360 cleaned up and let 00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:39.389 staff do that and then bring this back in two weeks or 30 00:57:39.389 --> 00:57:40.500 days I don't know how 00:57:40.500 --> 00:57:44.860 long the time would be to that it can have those few little 00:57:44.860 --> 00:57:45.760 tweaks and 00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:48.809 changes and then brought back is there a time crunch that 00:57:48.809 --> 00:57:49.800 there's a project 00:57:49.800 --> 00:57:55.469 that's pending waiting on this or now the applicant is here 00:57:55.469 --> 00:57:56.719 and and so he may 00:57:56.719 --> 00:58:01.239 be able to answer that okay great Commissioner Roselle I 00:58:01.239 --> 00:58:02.840 might defer my 00:58:02.840 --> 00:58:05.760 time after public hearing if the applicant speaking so 00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:07.039 maybe I'll is the 00:58:07.039 --> 00:58:10.679 applicant planning on speaking this evening I believe so 00:58:14.679 --> 00:58:19.769 thank you Judy thanks do you have one card this evening 00:58:19.769 --> 00:58:21.360 Michael Coker you'd 00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:23.840 like to come forward give your name and address for us and 00:58:23.840 --> 00:58:24.800 as the applicant 00:58:24.800 --> 00:58:29.750 we'll have 10 minutes thank you mr. chair Michael Coker 31 00:58:29.750 --> 00:58:31.360 11 Canton Street 00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:38.719 Dallas Texas anyway that's my address and my name I'm the 00:58:38.719 --> 00:58:39.480 applicant in this case 00:58:39.480 --> 00:58:43.900 and let me give you about a two-minute review of how we got 00:58:43.900 --> 00:58:45.920 where we are my 00:58:45.920 --> 00:58:49.650 client identified a piece of property between gay and 00:58:49.650 --> 00:58:51.239 Georgetown on the north 00:58:51.239 --> 00:58:54.070 side of 380 backs up to a neighborhood single-family 00:58:54.070 --> 00:58:56.119 detached and it's about 00:58:56.119 --> 00:58:58.949 five and a half acres all in but we lose about an acre 00:58:58.949 --> 00:59:00.280 because there's a creek 00:59:00.280 --> 00:59:05.139 that runs from northwest to southeast across it and there's 00:59:05.139 --> 00:59:06.679 a Taco Bell on the 00:59:06.679 --> 00:59:11.610 corner of Georgetown and that property has been available 00:59:11.610 --> 00:59:13.280 for a long time for 00:59:13.280 --> 00:59:16.829 CMG uses but nobody has stepped into that and I think a lot 00:59:16.829 --> 00:59:17.760 of it has I'm a 00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:21.489 land planner by trade has to do with the fact that it's 00:59:21.489 --> 00:59:23.480 separated from 380 by that 00:59:23.480 --> 00:59:28.460 Creek and the parts that were developable adjacent to 380 00:59:28.460 --> 00:59:29.280 have been 00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:34.519 developed that said we met with the staff in June to see 00:59:34.519 --> 00:59:35.480 what our options 00:59:35.480 --> 00:59:38.309 were because it was clear that the zoning that was on the 00:59:38.309 --> 00:59:39.800 property didn't 00:59:39.800 --> 00:59:43.070 meet our requirements because we wanted to do self-service 00:59:43.070 --> 00:59:44.920 storage so we talked 00:59:44.920 --> 00:59:48.440 to the staff and I really thought about changing the comp 00:59:48.440 --> 00:59:49.559 plan and but that 00:59:49.559 --> 00:59:52.130 wasn't going to get me where I wanted to go because it didn 00:59:52.130 --> 00:59:53.079 't make any sense to 00:59:53.079 --> 00:59:56.130 put industrial zoning next to the neighborhood and so we 00:59:56.130 --> 00:59:57.360 worked with the 00:59:57.360 --> 01:00:01.730 staff over the intervening eight months now or so to come 01:00:01.730 --> 01:00:02.679 up with a 01:00:02.679 --> 01:00:07.190 recommendation and we'd research surrounding communities to 01:00:07.190 --> 01:00:08.079 find out how 01:00:08.079 --> 01:00:13.579 they dealt with self storage facilities and we kind of 01:00:13.579 --> 01:00:14.960 synthesized out of that 01:00:14.960 --> 01:00:18.389 research a set of rules that we submitted to the staff and 01:00:18.389 --> 01:00:19.119 and that's 01:00:19.119 --> 01:00:23.110 where you get things like the 70% glass not to not more 01:00:23.110 --> 01:00:24.280 than that but other 01:00:24.280 --> 01:00:28.010 other jurisdictions have that kind of restriction so we 01:00:28.010 --> 01:00:29.599 worked with your staff 01:00:29.599 --> 01:00:33.329 and actually you've had a change of staff in the interven 01:00:33.329 --> 01:00:34.400 ing eight or nine 01:00:34.400 --> 01:00:38.300 months and Julie's been a pleasure to work with I do not 01:00:38.300 --> 01:00:39.519 like her last 01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:42.480 recommendation though and I'll tell you what that's about 01:00:42.480 --> 01:00:44.039 we get to where we've 01:00:44.039 --> 01:00:47.119 been working with the staff and out of the staff 01:00:47.119 --> 01:00:48.239 recommendation there's a 01:00:48.239 --> 01:00:53.730 change and it has to do with single building everything 01:00:53.730 --> 01:00:55.400 enclosed client 01:00:55.400 --> 01:01:01.429 control I mean climate control well our market research in 01:01:01.429 --> 01:01:03.480 Denton tells us that 01:01:03.480 --> 01:01:07.530 the percentage of folks that we think are likely to use our 01:01:07.530 --> 01:01:08.880 facility are from 01:01:08.880 --> 01:01:11.579 the neighborhoods and they've got multifamily and there's 01:01:11.579 --> 01:01:12.280 some businesses 01:01:12.280 --> 01:01:16.150 but it's mostly people like us that pull up with their 01:01:16.150 --> 01:01:17.360 pickup or their their 01:01:17.360 --> 01:01:22.309 trailer and they want to unload it and put it in the unit 01:01:22.309 --> 01:01:24.239 and and go home I 01:01:24.239 --> 01:01:28.619 work in Dallas and they just built one of these three or 01:01:28.619 --> 01:01:30.960 four story units close 01:01:30.960 --> 01:01:34.329 to my office and you cannot drive up and unload it and put 01:01:34.329 --> 01:01:35.400 it in your unit you've 01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:38.769 got to drive up unload it put it in an elevator unless you 01:01:38.769 --> 01:01:39.420 happen to be on the 01:01:39.420 --> 01:01:44.349 first floor and take it up to the level that you're at 01:01:44.349 --> 01:01:45.619 unload it again then 01:01:45.619 --> 01:01:48.769 carry it off to the to the unit where you're going to store 01:01:48.769 --> 01:01:49.719 it we don't have 01:01:49.719 --> 01:01:54.579 any problem with that as a portion of our of our approach 01:01:54.579 --> 01:01:56.679 so with that we 01:01:56.679 --> 01:02:01.469 would like you to consider three things to modify the staff 01:02:01.469 --> 01:02:03.159 now the 70% part 01:02:03.159 --> 01:02:07.969 that came from other jurisdictions the fact that SUPs for 01:02:07.969 --> 01:02:09.119 other zoning 01:02:09.119 --> 01:02:11.829 districts we were really looking at CMG the staff asked us 01:02:11.829 --> 01:02:12.719 to include the other 01:02:12.719 --> 01:02:16.860 ones so to the extent that I did what they asked me to do I 01:02:16.860 --> 01:02:18.159 don't have a dog 01:02:18.159 --> 01:02:21.099 in that hunt but I do have one on this little piece of 01:02:21.099 --> 01:02:22.239 property with five 01:02:22.239 --> 01:02:26.769 acres there are three things that I'd like you to consider 01:02:26.769 --> 01:02:27.880 as you move this 01:02:27.880 --> 01:02:33.699 through the evaluation first thing is change the language 01:02:33.699 --> 01:02:34.760 that the staff has 01:02:34.760 --> 01:02:36.960 put 01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:48.349 under staff recommendation on page two of three number one 01:02:48.349 --> 01:02:50.320 a should read all 01:02:50.320 --> 01:02:53.710 individually least storage units must be contained within a 01:02:53.710 --> 01:02:54.599 climate controlled 01:02:54.599 --> 01:02:58.179 building comma however when adjacent to residential zoning 01:02:58.179 --> 01:02:58.880 districts comma 01:02:58.880 --> 01:03:02.750 self service storage facilities shall not exceed one story 01:03:02.750 --> 01:03:04.239 to height and shall 01:03:04.239 --> 01:03:09.070 allow drive-up access when located within 120 feet of the 01:03:09.070 --> 01:03:09.679 residential 01:03:09.679 --> 01:03:13.679 zoning district boundary line and the storage units need 01:03:13.679 --> 01:03:14.719 not be climate 01:03:14.719 --> 01:03:17.550 controlled that's the first thing so what we're doing is we 01:03:17.550 --> 01:03:18.159 're taking this 01:03:18.159 --> 01:03:20.829 what the staff recommend to have climate control for 01:03:20.829 --> 01:03:22.039 everything and saying 01:03:22.039 --> 01:03:27.130 however if you're within 120 feet of a of a residentially z 01:03:27.130 --> 01:03:29.400 oned district that 01:03:29.400 --> 01:03:31.969 you're going to protect those property owners where there's 01:03:31.969 --> 01:03:32.599 multifamily 01:03:32.599 --> 01:03:36.130 single-family townhouse cluster housing you're going to 01:03:36.130 --> 01:03:37.360 keep that low to one 01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:42.230 story for 120 feet there's there's buffering requirements 01:03:42.230 --> 01:03:42.639 and things like 01:03:42.639 --> 01:03:46.179 that but we think that that when I sit in my in my backyard 01:03:46.179 --> 01:03:47.400 and I look out the 01:03:47.400 --> 01:03:52.349 last thing I want to see is a three-story self storage unit 01:03:52.349 --> 01:03:53.159 there if I 01:03:53.159 --> 01:03:55.500 can avoid it and I don't mind looking at the top of my 01:03:55.500 --> 01:03:57.559 neighbor's house which I 01:03:57.559 --> 01:04:00.599 think you get the effect and as you get closer to 380 in 01:04:00.599 --> 01:04:02.320 our case the height can 01:04:02.320 --> 01:04:07.489 go up we're actually proposing maximum of two stories on 01:04:07.489 --> 01:04:08.880 the part of our 01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:11.829 property that is closest to the creek which is closest to 3 01:04:11.829 --> 01:04:13.159 80 the second 01:04:13.159 --> 01:04:18.000 thing we'd like you to consider is the first level of multi 01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:19.480 -story self-service 01:04:19.480 --> 01:04:23.360 stories buildings may have exterior non climate controlled 01:04:23.360 --> 01:04:24.719 drive-up units now 01:04:24.719 --> 01:04:28.780 this works pretty well with the fact that one of the things 01:04:28.780 --> 01:04:29.159 that 01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:32.389 Commissioner Taylor talked about was that the disparity 01:04:32.389 --> 01:04:33.960 between the 70% glass 01:04:33.960 --> 01:04:37.070 and you can't see him from the public way or from the 01:04:37.070 --> 01:04:40.000 neighborhood this we're 01:04:40.000 --> 01:04:42.300 we're going to put in a masonry wall that completely 01:04:42.300 --> 01:04:43.480 screens the ground floor 01:04:43.480 --> 01:04:47.670 so what's happening on the ground floor won't be seen from 01:04:47.670 --> 01:04:49.199 from our neighbors 01:04:49.199 --> 01:04:51.349 or from the public way and so we think that having the 01:04:51.349 --> 01:04:53.039 drive-up capacity which 01:04:53.039 --> 01:04:56.130 is consistent with our market research makes perfectly good 01:04:56.130 --> 01:04:57.159 sense and miss 01:04:57.159 --> 01:04:59.989 Ellis there's one last thing that I put it in since I 01:04:59.989 --> 01:05:00.960 talked to you the other 01:05:00.960 --> 01:05:07.519 day the last thing is that we do think that second level 01:05:07.519 --> 01:05:09.679 glass on an 01:05:09.679 --> 01:05:13.179 architectural feature that you can look through and see one 01:05:13.179 --> 01:05:14.320 of the storage unit 01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:17.030 doors or multiple storage unit doors is not disadvantageous 01:05:17.030 --> 01:05:17.960 and we'd like you to 01:05:17.960 --> 01:05:21.329 consider that as well so with that mr. chair members of the 01:05:21.329 --> 01:05:22.320 Commission I'm glad 01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:25.690 to answer any questions that you might have as long as I 01:05:25.690 --> 01:05:27.320 can actually answer them 01:05:31.320 --> 01:05:37.409 got a couple questions for you Commissioner Hudson do you 01:05:37.409 --> 01:05:39.679 envision 01:05:39.679 --> 01:05:43.119 turning in looking at the I don't know can we pull up the 01:05:43.119 --> 01:05:44.760 Google map of that I 01:05:44.760 --> 01:05:50.769 can give you the address if you want it let me see yes so 01:05:50.769 --> 01:05:53.079 what's you can let's 01:05:53.079 --> 01:06:02.809 see we get your better address if you go 1801 gay drive no 01:06:02.809 --> 01:06:04.599 the the actual 01:06:04.599 --> 01:06:13.670 property yes is that okay excellent 1801 gay street and 01:06:13.670 --> 01:06:15.079 that's a 01:06:15.079 --> 01:06:24.920 department drive and if you click that square at the yeah 01:06:24.920 --> 01:06:26.159 while we're looking 01:06:26.159 --> 01:06:29.889 up the address I notice we've had a couple people come in a 01:06:29.889 --> 01:06:30.960 little late after 01:06:30.960 --> 01:06:34.239 we started we announced at the beginning of our meeting 01:06:34.239 --> 01:06:36.480 that the Kroger project 01:06:36.480 --> 01:06:44.039 has been well I don't know that that's correct and we're 01:06:44.039 --> 01:06:44.760 getting ready to do 01:06:44.760 --> 01:06:47.989 that yeah we announced that there was a withdrawal of item 01:06:47.989 --> 01:06:50.840 3c yep and we haven't 01:06:50.840 --> 01:06:55.699 discussed Kroger we're getting ready to okay my apologies 01:06:55.699 --> 01:06:56.559 we'll get back to that 01:06:56.559 --> 01:07:04.039 in just a second okay the access will it come from gay 01:07:04.039 --> 01:07:05.519 street will it be passed 01:07:05.519 --> 01:07:08.559 through between Georgetown and gay how do you and how do 01:07:08.559 --> 01:07:09.599 you envision that 01:07:09.599 --> 01:07:13.570 functioning at least at the outset we envision the access 01:07:13.570 --> 01:07:14.719 to come if come in 01:07:14.719 --> 01:07:19.409 off of Georgetown which is on the right hand side of the 01:07:19.409 --> 01:07:20.519 picture yes that's 01:07:20.519 --> 01:07:22.840 actually the neighborhood the access into the neighborhood 01:07:22.840 --> 01:07:24.599 but no access from 01:07:24.599 --> 01:07:27.900 the neighborhood into this into our property gay street 01:07:27.900 --> 01:07:29.760 dead ends at the 01:07:29.760 --> 01:07:34.630 boundary line of the single-family that's just to the north 01:07:34.630 --> 01:07:35.639 of us there I 01:07:35.639 --> 01:07:39.369 miss something turn you'll be able to turn in from 01:07:39.369 --> 01:07:42.159 Georgetown yes sir and then 01:07:42.159 --> 01:07:46.929 exit gay street or no no I exit will go on to in and out 01:07:46.929 --> 01:07:48.760 off of Georgetown okay 01:07:48.760 --> 01:08:02.199 got it okay and so a follow-up is how do you envision 01:08:02.199 --> 01:08:05.840 protecting the back of 01:08:05.840 --> 01:08:09.920 those homes because if you if you where I'm going is if you 01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:11.400 put a wall there and 01:08:11.400 --> 01:08:14.469 there's any space between that wall in the neighborhood now 01:08:14.469 --> 01:08:15.280 there's opportunity 01:08:15.280 --> 01:08:17.779 for someone to hide back there if you shine a light back 01:08:17.779 --> 01:08:18.640 there now you shine 01:08:18.640 --> 01:08:23.189 a light in the back of someone's house so how do you 01:08:23.189 --> 01:08:25.279 envision that kind of 01:08:25.279 --> 01:08:29.010 those two worlds coming together seamlessly I don't think 01:08:29.010 --> 01:08:29.880 it's seamless 01:08:29.880 --> 01:08:32.279 but I do think that we have an answer to the question 01:08:32.279 --> 01:08:33.520 excellent first of all 01:08:33.520 --> 01:08:37.250 there's a utility easement that already runs at the back of 01:08:37.250 --> 01:08:38.319 that property and 01:08:38.319 --> 01:08:41.880 that's 10 feet it's 15 feet wide and so it runs from east 01:08:41.880 --> 01:08:43.039 to west at the south 01:08:43.039 --> 01:08:46.119 side of the residential zoning district we intend to put an 01:08:46.119 --> 01:08:47.479 additional 20 feet 01:08:47.479 --> 01:08:51.560 of landscape buffer between the utility easement and the 01:08:51.560 --> 01:08:53.180 back of our wall and on 01:08:53.180 --> 01:08:57.899 top of that in I don't want to have lights shining into the 01:08:57.899 --> 01:08:58.800 to the neighbors 01:08:58.800 --> 01:09:02.350 yards so any lighting that we put in there is going to be 01:09:02.350 --> 01:09:03.279 focused back 01:09:03.279 --> 01:09:07.020 toward us with whatever overflow does not adversely affect 01:09:07.020 --> 01:09:08.199 the neighbors and 01:09:08.199 --> 01:09:12.300 in addition to that our intention is to have cameras that 01:09:12.300 --> 01:09:14.000 are monitored on a 01:09:14.000 --> 01:09:17.149 regular basis so that we can see what's going on in that 01:09:17.149 --> 01:09:18.359 landscaped area between 01:09:18.359 --> 01:09:22.880 the back of our buildings the wall and our neighbors just 01:09:22.880 --> 01:09:24.399 as a point of order 01:09:24.399 --> 01:09:27.340 we're talking about really ordinance issues and we're kind 01:09:27.340 --> 01:09:28.119 of starting to 01:09:28.119 --> 01:09:32.470 get way into very specific items on one particular site 01:09:32.470 --> 01:09:34.119 versus what's on our 01:09:34.119 --> 01:09:36.949 agenda consider tonight as overall so I'd like to try to 01:09:36.949 --> 01:09:37.760 keep us as best we 01:09:37.760 --> 01:09:42.770 can on what we have before us tonight and to that point 01:09:42.770 --> 01:09:44.319 that's a great I'm 01:09:44.319 --> 01:09:48.189 gonna speak in amongst us not a question but I I don't 01:09:48.189 --> 01:09:49.680 understand the broad 01:09:49.680 --> 01:09:55.170 stroke I guess that's for an individual and with the 01:09:55.170 --> 01:09:56.960 project in mind I don't 01:09:56.960 --> 01:10:01.810 understand the need for the giant stroke I'm missing so I 01:10:01.810 --> 01:10:02.920 'll just wait and 01:10:02.920 --> 01:10:08.720 listen and maybe I'll pick up on it okay thank you 01:10:08.720 --> 01:10:14.520 Commissioner Ellis thank you chair well just to I think 01:10:14.520 --> 01:10:15.479 answer Commissioner 01:10:15.479 --> 01:10:18.520 Hudspeth it would be they can't build a storage unit on 01:10:18.520 --> 01:10:20.319 this lot because it's CMG 01:10:20.319 --> 01:10:24.899 no no CMG lot can be built with self storage and I think 01:10:24.899 --> 01:10:26.199 for the applicant it 01:10:26.199 --> 01:10:29.569 didn't he wasn't gonna be able to get a zoning change here 01:10:29.569 --> 01:10:31.159 for you know to up 01:10:31.159 --> 01:10:33.750 zone it to industrial or employment centers which are the 01:10:33.750 --> 01:10:34.560 only two that the 01:10:34.560 --> 01:10:39.750 city allows right now so I think I think that's how we got 01:10:39.750 --> 01:10:42.680 here so right to do 01:10:42.680 --> 01:10:47.289 this we have to we have to change the entire code right 01:10:47.289 --> 01:10:50.640 this way correct I 01:10:50.640 --> 01:10:54.210 mean now not necessarily these exact words but we have to 01:10:54.210 --> 01:10:55.319 write something 01:10:55.319 --> 01:10:59.270 into the code to allow it in CMG correct correct and that's 01:10:59.270 --> 01:11:00.880 what's before us this 01:11:00.880 --> 01:11:06.369 evening that's a global zoning issue versus a site specific 01:11:06.369 --> 01:11:07.560 application and I 01:11:07.560 --> 01:11:12.000 just wanted as chair to try to keep it at the global versus 01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:13.960 specifically some 01:11:13.960 --> 01:11:15.680 of the things that we were the direction that we were 01:11:15.680 --> 01:11:16.840 starting to go down so 01:11:16.840 --> 01:11:21.359 Commissioner Taylor thank you chair yeah I definitely echo 01:11:21.359 --> 01:11:22.640 your concerns about we 01:11:22.640 --> 01:11:25.789 don't want to get too far into a single case we're looking 01:11:25.789 --> 01:11:26.859 at rewriting the 01:11:26.859 --> 01:11:30.789 entire ordinance there are some good examples out of this 01:11:30.789 --> 01:11:31.359 though I think 01:11:31.359 --> 01:11:35.310 because storage there are all kinds of storage units all 01:11:35.310 --> 01:11:36.520 over Denton because 01:11:36.520 --> 01:11:39.680 they used to be allowed in almost every commercial zoning 01:11:39.680 --> 01:11:40.880 category and so they 01:11:40.880 --> 01:11:43.510 were they're just sprinkled about there's some on Bell 01:11:43.510 --> 01:11:44.319 there's some on 01:11:44.319 --> 01:11:47.739 Locust there's some on North Locust there's some like in 01:11:47.739 --> 01:11:48.560 East Dent in 01:11:48.560 --> 01:11:51.710 Southeast Denton they're just tucked all through the 01:11:51.710 --> 01:11:54.239 neighborhoods and that was 01:11:54.239 --> 01:11:58.319 why they got zoned out of everything but industrial like 01:11:58.319 --> 01:12:01.840 2000 or 2001 and I do 01:12:01.840 --> 01:12:05.979 think they could fit in CMG but CMG often is a situation 01:12:05.979 --> 01:12:08.279 like this where CMG 01:12:08.279 --> 01:12:10.630 is the retail that serves the neighborhood and it's going 01:12:10.630 --> 01:12:11.119 to be close 01:12:11.119 --> 01:12:13.560 to the neighborhood or back up to the neighborhood and I 01:12:13.560 --> 01:12:15.039 think that 01:12:15.039 --> 01:12:18.770 Commissioner Hutzpeth's concerns illustrate why an SUP 01:12:18.770 --> 01:12:19.840 process might be 01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:25.560 necessary especially in the CMG districts and honestly this 01:12:25.560 --> 01:12:25.600 is this 01:12:25.600 --> 01:12:29.600 conversation has made me come around on the maybe an SUP 01:12:29.600 --> 01:12:34.399 for ECI or ECC I really 01:12:34.399 --> 01:12:37.550 do think we're going to need a work session on this unless 01:12:37.550 --> 01:12:38.439 if if a two-week 01:12:38.439 --> 01:12:48.989 delay doesn't adversely affect this applicant sure so would 01:12:48.989 --> 01:12:49.960 it would a two 01:12:49.960 --> 01:12:54.720 week or four week delay significantly impact your project? 01:12:54.720 --> 01:12:59.239 Since we can't make application for anything unless it gets 01:12:59.239 --> 01:13:01.960 changed. 01:13:01.960 --> 01:13:07.529 Commissioner Rozelle. Thank you chair. So I have a lot of 01:13:07.529 --> 01:13:08.399 thoughts on this and I 01:13:08.399 --> 01:13:11.289 have a pending question for chair that I'd like to formally 01:13:11.289 --> 01:13:12.119 put into public 01:13:12.119 --> 01:13:14.109 session about the height that she brought up in the work 01:13:14.109 --> 01:13:14.600 session so I 01:13:14.600 --> 01:13:18.470 wanted to that's how I'm going to end my statement but 01:13:18.470 --> 01:13:20.800 before I end it one of the 01:13:20.800 --> 01:13:24.359 three things you're asking for was the single-story 01:13:24.359 --> 01:13:27.079 amendment with some feet 01:13:27.079 --> 01:13:30.449 requirement as it pertains to boundary and residential 01:13:30.449 --> 01:13:32.560 access and I have I have 01:13:32.560 --> 01:13:35.670 an issue with that as a code amendment because if you get 01:13:35.670 --> 01:13:36.880 to a property that's 01:13:36.880 --> 01:13:41.029 super small then they can just build a single-story self- 01:13:41.029 --> 01:13:42.199 service unit because 01:13:42.199 --> 01:13:46.439 they won't have the actual width or depth of the property 01:13:46.439 --> 01:13:47.319 to build up they 01:13:47.319 --> 01:13:50.619 if it's a skinny lot then all the property could be within 01:13:50.619 --> 01:13:51.720 120 feet of 01:13:51.720 --> 01:13:55.880 residents and now you you're now allowing a single-story 01:13:55.880 --> 01:13:57.000 self-service in 01:13:57.000 --> 01:14:00.729 the CMG which it seems like we're trying very hard not to 01:14:00.729 --> 01:14:02.079 allow that's not to say 01:14:02.079 --> 01:14:07.159 I'm opposed to using both climate controlled buildings and 01:14:07.159 --> 01:14:08.640 single-story we 01:14:08.640 --> 01:14:11.479 looked in work session of a property on 380 that that was 01:14:11.479 --> 01:14:12.560 doing just that where 01:14:12.560 --> 01:14:16.829 provided the option for indoor storage for some but also 01:14:16.829 --> 01:14:18.439 had the outdoor access 01:14:18.439 --> 01:14:20.390 that you're talking about driveway access for the other 01:14:20.390 --> 01:14:21.119 part of the project 01:14:21.119 --> 01:14:25.159 and I think that is a workable solution depending on the 01:14:25.159 --> 01:14:26.920 property so that to say 01:14:26.920 --> 01:14:31.430 that sets up perfectly for an SUP for the CMG in which we 01:14:31.430 --> 01:14:32.800 don't have to codify 01:14:32.800 --> 01:14:36.529 that the single story is allowed or permittable within 120 01:14:36.529 --> 01:14:37.279 feet because I 01:14:37.279 --> 01:14:41.250 think that is too big of a brush for the code but it brings 01:14:41.250 --> 01:14:42.880 us back around to 01:14:42.880 --> 01:14:48.529 simply allowing self storage units in CMG with an SUP and 01:14:48.529 --> 01:14:50.479 then we have staff in 01:14:50.479 --> 01:14:53.409 the Commission to actually follow through on that and I'm 01:14:53.409 --> 01:14:54.279 unsure if we have 01:14:54.279 --> 01:14:58.659 the SUP procedure why we need L35 at all when we could it 01:14:58.659 --> 01:15:00.039 seems place any or all 01:15:00.039 --> 01:15:03.409 those requirements within the SUP so the redundancy there 01:15:03.409 --> 01:15:04.039 is I think an 01:15:04.039 --> 01:15:09.560 unnecessary the other things that you talked about the 01:15:09.560 --> 01:15:10.920 driveway access had 01:15:10.920 --> 01:15:12.880 been covered my first point in the second story window that 01:15:12.880 --> 01:15:13.359 just makes sense 01:15:13.359 --> 01:15:18.189 I was it didn't make sense to not allow for it looked like 01:15:18.189 --> 01:15:19.960 you were going off 01:15:19.960 --> 01:15:22.789 some other cities that do that but I'm not that doesn't 01:15:22.789 --> 01:15:23.720 make any aesthetic 01:15:23.720 --> 01:15:27.149 sense to me so I agree with you on allowing second third 01:15:27.149 --> 01:15:28.079 fourth story 01:15:28.079 --> 01:15:33.350 windows being able to see into the the ramp but I guess one 01:15:33.350 --> 01:15:34.840 I still have a 01:15:34.840 --> 01:15:38.420 question for the chair about you and work session you'd 01:15:38.420 --> 01:15:39.399 mention that you would 01:15:39.399 --> 01:15:43.720 like to reduce L35 and just add an SUP to fight the height 01:15:43.720 --> 01:15:44.520 restrictions that 01:15:44.520 --> 01:15:47.130 might be have pushback on the city can you walk me through 01:15:47.130 --> 01:15:47.880 the rationale 01:15:47.880 --> 01:15:52.810 because wouldn't the height issue either way through an L35 01:15:52.810 --> 01:15:54.199 or the SUP still 01:15:54.199 --> 01:15:58.449 present the opportunity for some height pushback it seemed 01:15:58.449 --> 01:15:59.399 like that is what 01:15:59.399 --> 01:16:02.260 you were fearing can you help me out with that well my 01:16:02.260 --> 01:16:04.600 concern in first-plus 01:16:04.600 --> 01:16:07.310 was that if we required it to be a hundred percent air 01:16:07.310 --> 01:16:08.279 condition that that 01:16:08.279 --> 01:16:12.199 forced it to be tall that the city was pushing it that 01:16:12.199 --> 01:16:13.439 direction and my 01:16:13.439 --> 01:16:16.270 concern with it coming for our Commission being against 01:16:16.270 --> 01:16:16.680 neighborhoods 01:16:16.680 --> 01:16:19.060 because we've had a lot of discussion about that in the 01:16:19.060 --> 01:16:20.039 last several months 01:16:20.039 --> 01:16:24.090 and in other projects that have come before us it's been 01:16:24.090 --> 01:16:25.039 the height in 01:16:25.039 --> 01:16:28.119 neighborhoods and so my concern with making it a hundred 01:16:28.119 --> 01:16:29.039 percent is that 01:16:29.039 --> 01:16:32.409 we're almost pushing projects to become tall and then we're 01:16:32.409 --> 01:16:33.560 gonna be right back 01:16:33.560 --> 01:16:36.390 here going well I don't want a 65 foot tall storage 01:16:36.390 --> 01:16:37.880 building looking in my 01:16:37.880 --> 01:16:41.420 backyard okay and so that's why I was thinking that we may 01:16:41.420 --> 01:16:42.479 want to pull that 01:16:42.479 --> 01:16:46.250 out and kind of sound like the direction you're going you 01:16:46.250 --> 01:16:47.840 have an SUP and all of 01:16:47.840 --> 01:16:51.439 those things that are being proposed here can be proposed 01:16:51.439 --> 01:16:52.479 in an SUP if it's 01:16:52.479 --> 01:16:56.670 appropriate for the site but it can be somewhat I think 01:16:56.670 --> 01:16:59.279 each site on initial 01:16:59.279 --> 01:17:03.380 thought is that each site thing can be kind of customized 01:17:03.380 --> 01:17:04.760 and whatever this 01:17:04.760 --> 01:17:08.920 site specific issues or problems access design criteria it 01:17:08.920 --> 01:17:09.960 's against the 01:17:09.960 --> 01:17:13.689 neighborhood it's against other you know commercial uses 01:17:13.689 --> 01:17:14.319 you have the 01:17:14.319 --> 01:17:18.050 flexibility to design versus we have kind of where you were 01:17:18.050 --> 01:17:19.600 going a broad 01:17:19.600 --> 01:17:22.640 brush these are all the things that you have to do and they 01:17:22.640 --> 01:17:23.640 may be appropriate 01:17:23.640 --> 01:17:26.680 in some places and they may not be appropriate in others 01:17:26.680 --> 01:17:27.840 and that's where I 01:17:27.840 --> 01:17:32.930 was going with the L35 requirement is it seems to be 01:17:32.930 --> 01:17:34.800 pushing things all kind of 01:17:34.800 --> 01:17:39.409 into one box versus an SUP purposes to give us flexibility 01:17:39.409 --> 01:17:41.159 for each individual 01:17:41.159 --> 01:17:43.460 site so that's where I was going I don't know if that 01:17:43.460 --> 01:17:44.560 answers your question 01:17:44.560 --> 01:17:47.609 where I was going yeah it answers me perfectly I appreciate 01:17:47.609 --> 01:17:48.319 that so my 01:17:48.319 --> 01:17:51.619 leaning would just be a simplify this and and allow self 01:17:51.619 --> 01:17:53.560 storage units in zone 01:17:53.560 --> 01:17:58.649 SMG by SUP I personally would would leave off the ECC CI 01:17:58.649 --> 01:17:59.600 requirement for 01:17:59.600 --> 01:18:03.840 SUP I don't see that as a need right now but I think this 01:18:03.840 --> 01:18:05.640 might might be well 01:18:05.640 --> 01:18:10.840 simplified just to the amendment be SUP for that on the 01:18:10.840 --> 01:18:12.520 commercial CMG zone 01:18:12.520 --> 01:18:15.409 that's where what I would be leaning considering all the 01:18:15.409 --> 01:18:16.520 things we've talked 01:18:16.520 --> 01:18:21.380 about this far I think that's reasonable any other 01:18:21.380 --> 01:18:22.680 questions for the applicant 01:18:22.680 --> 01:18:28.090 and then we can move on to maybe more discussion here on 01:18:28.090 --> 01:18:32.239 the Commission yes 01:18:32.239 --> 01:18:36.199 thank you sir thank you Mr. Chair 01:18:37.920 --> 01:18:40.600 with that this is a public hearing is there anyone who 01:18:40.600 --> 01:18:42.159 would like to come 01:18:42.159 --> 01:18:48.140 forward and speak on this item seeing none I will close the 01:18:48.140 --> 01:18:49.520 public hearing and 01:18:49.520 --> 01:18:52.939 open the floor for discussion Commissioner Beck thank you 01:18:52.939 --> 01:18:55.199 chair again 01:18:55.199 --> 01:18:59.069 it seems to me the concern about a tall building in a 01:18:59.069 --> 01:19:00.439 neighborhood is a 01:19:00.439 --> 01:19:04.390 legitimate concern if we're looking at a park 7 situation 01:19:04.390 --> 01:19:05.680 but when you get into 01:19:05.680 --> 01:19:09.810 an area where you're along a major arterial and you're in a 01:19:09.810 --> 01:19:11.079 zone anyway CMJ 01:19:11.079 --> 01:19:15.640 allows 65 feet was it okay so you're gonna you're looking 01:19:15.640 --> 01:19:16.079 at four or five 01:19:16.079 --> 01:19:18.920 stories anyway when you're looking at tall buildings near 01:19:18.920 --> 01:19:19.760 neighborhoods if 01:19:19.760 --> 01:19:24.199 you've got height or it goes down into the neighborhood our 01:19:24.199 --> 01:19:25.359 problem with at 01:19:25.359 --> 01:19:29.260 least mine was with the park 7 thing is that it was going 01:19:29.260 --> 01:19:31.680 to be among these one 01:19:31.680 --> 01:19:35.409 and two story level buildings it wasn't at a major arterial 01:19:35.409 --> 01:19:37.760 and it was odd for 01:19:37.760 --> 01:19:41.829 that reason but most of the CMG districts I'm seeing here 01:19:41.829 --> 01:19:43.600 are long major arterials 01:19:43.600 --> 01:19:47.329 where as a commercial area you're gonna have some tall 01:19:47.329 --> 01:19:49.159 buildings anyway they're 01:19:49.159 --> 01:19:54.329 gonna be allowed by right so I really don't have a problem 01:19:54.329 --> 01:19:56.720 with tall buildings 01:19:56.720 --> 01:20:00.250 within a certain proximity to neighborhoods and maybe that 01:20:00.250 --> 01:20:00.680 's something 01:20:00.680 --> 01:20:03.729 we should consider if the CMG is deep enough say from the 01:20:03.729 --> 01:20:05.039 main road to the 01:20:05.039 --> 01:20:07.239 neighborhood that maybe there could be a hundred foot set 01:20:07.239 --> 01:20:08.079 back or something like 01:20:08.079 --> 01:20:11.449 that where they can't get any closer than that but again it 01:20:11.449 --> 01:20:12.359 's not so much 01:20:12.359 --> 01:20:16.229 tall buildings per se it's just tall buildings in the 01:20:16.229 --> 01:20:17.720 middle of surrounded by 01:20:17.720 --> 01:20:20.869 small buildings where if you're an area or a strip of land 01:20:20.869 --> 01:20:22.039 where tall buildings 01:20:22.039 --> 01:20:27.670 have or can be there by right then I'm not sure what the 01:20:27.670 --> 01:20:30.199 argument is so just 01:20:30.199 --> 01:20:33.079 some thoughts there okay 01:20:42.359 --> 01:20:50.720 Commissioner Hussbeth question for legal for the amendment 01:20:50.720 --> 01:20:54.600 to the code can we add 01:20:54.600 --> 01:20:58.329 I don't know what the wording is specifically but what I'm 01:20:58.329 --> 01:20:59.239 targeting is 01:20:59.239 --> 01:21:06.109 we're talking about storage units and we're talking about a 01:21:06.109 --> 01:21:07.199 propensity for 01:21:07.199 --> 01:21:13.930 people to break in for people to leave stuff outside for 01:21:13.930 --> 01:21:16.079 the ability for code 01:21:16.079 --> 01:21:19.640 enforcement to get in what are the what are what is our 01:21:19.640 --> 01:21:20.960 what are the city's 01:21:20.960 --> 01:21:25.010 options in that regard so code enforcement drives by a 01:21:25.010 --> 01:21:26.039 facility and 01:21:26.039 --> 01:21:33.430 there's a couch laid out by the dumpster and looks unkept 01:21:33.430 --> 01:21:35.239 can code enforcement go 01:21:35.239 --> 01:21:37.609 on that property or is it just they take a picture from the 01:21:37.609 --> 01:21:39.119 street normal process 01:21:39.119 --> 01:21:45.399 how does that kind of work to maintain a gated facility 01:21:45.399 --> 01:21:48.800 well I know that if they 01:21:48.800 --> 01:21:51.840 see and in violation from the public right-of-way then they 01:21:51.840 --> 01:21:52.600 have a right to 01:21:52.600 --> 01:21:55.649 go up on the property or the curtilage if there is a no 01:21:55.649 --> 01:21:57.199 trespass sign or a gate 01:21:57.199 --> 01:22:01.810 then they have to seek consent from the owner generally 01:22:01.810 --> 01:22:02.960 speaking unless there's 01:22:02.960 --> 01:22:07.279 an emergency situation and I believe on all of the gated 01:22:07.279 --> 01:22:09.039 lock or the gate locks 01:22:09.039 --> 01:22:13.329 that they're required to give the code over I think that's 01:22:13.329 --> 01:22:14.880 the case but I can't 01:22:14.880 --> 01:22:17.960 say for sure but either way they would contact the owner 01:22:17.960 --> 01:22:20.359 make contact and issue 01:22:20.359 --> 01:22:24.840 a notice of violation or try to get voluntary compliance 01:22:24.840 --> 01:22:29.199 okay thank you 01:22:30.640 --> 01:22:33.539 well I'm just gonna throw out for discussion I think 01:22:33.539 --> 01:22:34.520 initially we were 01:22:34.520 --> 01:22:37.890 talking about wanting this to come back with work session 01:22:37.890 --> 01:22:39.159 is that the direction 01:22:39.159 --> 01:22:43.600 that the Commission would like or after discussion are we 01:22:43.600 --> 01:22:45.239 comfortable to talk 01:22:45.239 --> 01:22:48.069 about this and just clean up maybe some of this language 01:22:48.069 --> 01:22:49.199 and move forward with a 01:22:49.199 --> 01:22:51.600 motion 01:22:57.199 --> 01:22:59.720 yeah 01:23:01.239 --> 01:23:05.829 Commissioner Roselle as far as I can see it I don't know 01:23:05.829 --> 01:23:08.079 what a work session 01:23:08.079 --> 01:23:10.909 would add to clarity if there's a commissioner that might 01:23:10.909 --> 01:23:11.399 be able to 01:23:11.399 --> 01:23:14.460 enlighten me on what a work session would add to this I'd 01:23:14.460 --> 01:23:15.520 be happy to try to 01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:22.119 percolate that in my mind but as far as I see it I would I 01:23:22.119 --> 01:23:24.399 would go ahead and 01:23:24.399 --> 01:23:28.130 motion that we move forward with this code amendment but I 01:23:28.130 --> 01:23:29.199 would I would put 01:23:29.199 --> 01:23:33.800 forth that we make the amendment that self storage units 01:23:33.800 --> 01:23:35.800 would be permitted in 01:23:35.800 --> 01:23:40.489 CMG by SUP only and that'd be my full motion I would I 01:23:40.489 --> 01:23:42.279 would exclude the 01:23:42.279 --> 01:23:46.010 recommendation for ECI and ECC and just leave it simply at 01:23:46.010 --> 01:23:47.840 that so that's where 01:23:47.840 --> 01:23:52.039 where I am okay 01:23:53.279 --> 01:23:57.010 Commissioner Ellis I'm gonna go ahead and second that 01:23:57.010 --> 01:23:57.760 because that's actually 01:23:57.760 --> 01:24:00.960 where I am too I think we talked so much about the code 01:24:00.960 --> 01:24:03.039 being big and bulky and I 01:24:03.039 --> 01:24:09.329 think L 35 makes it big and bulky and I think it gives us 01:24:09.329 --> 01:24:11.560 the opportunity 01:24:11.560 --> 01:24:14.680 do you have something to say Julie 01:24:17.479 --> 01:24:19.960 use category to commercial land use category is that 01:24:19.960 --> 01:24:22.640 something I did you 01:24:22.640 --> 01:24:28.680 want to okay I'm sorry thanks for the clarification 01:24:31.079 --> 01:24:35.029 having an SUP allowing it in CMG and then having the SUP 01:24:35.029 --> 01:24:36.680 does give the 01:24:36.680 --> 01:24:40.409 opportunity for it to be crafted for whatever the lot is 01:24:40.409 --> 01:24:41.479 this particular lot 01:24:41.479 --> 01:24:45.210 that the applicants talking about is not gonna is not gonna 01:24:45.210 --> 01:24:46.239 be able to carry a 01:24:46.239 --> 01:24:49.430 fully enclosed you know huge storage building like some of 01:24:49.430 --> 01:24:50.079 the ones we 01:24:50.079 --> 01:24:52.270 discussed in work session you know it's not even it's not 01:24:52.270 --> 01:24:53.079 the kind of lot that 01:24:53.079 --> 01:24:56.449 we would want to put that on so having the SUP on it would 01:24:56.449 --> 01:24:57.880 allow us to to bring 01:24:57.880 --> 01:25:01.180 it down to you know a single story or two story or whatever 01:25:01.180 --> 01:25:02.119 and crafted around 01:25:02.119 --> 01:25:07.279 that neighborhood so I'm I'm I'm comfortable with with 01:25:07.279 --> 01:25:08.239 exactly that allowed 01:25:08.239 --> 01:25:18.199 in CMG with an SUP Commissioner Tyler thank you chair so I 01:25:18.199 --> 01:25:19.720 do think that 01:25:19.720 --> 01:25:27.430 storage units have a propensity to attract crime debris 01:25:27.430 --> 01:25:28.119 there's a reason 01:25:28.119 --> 01:25:30.659 why they were zoned out of every single category that wasn 01:25:30.659 --> 01:25:31.840 't industrial and 01:25:31.840 --> 01:25:35.350 that's because you can look around in you know over off of 01:25:35.350 --> 01:25:36.479 Fort Worth Drive 01:25:36.479 --> 01:25:41.020 sorry Dallas Drive where they're they really damaged the 01:25:41.020 --> 01:25:42.039 value of the 01:25:42.039 --> 01:25:44.659 neighborhood the damage of the appearance they keep areas 01:25:44.659 --> 01:25:45.640 depressed if 01:25:45.640 --> 01:25:49.739 they're unattractive and poorly maintained it's hard to 01:25:49.739 --> 01:25:50.720 force maintenance 01:25:50.720 --> 01:25:55.239 it's hard to force security so they do lead to you know 01:25:55.239 --> 01:25:58.600 crime and debris and so 01:25:58.600 --> 01:26:01.000 I think I think that's an important thing we consider here 01:26:01.000 --> 01:26:01.960 especially we 01:26:01.960 --> 01:26:05.689 just you know open it wide open part of the reason why we 01:26:05.689 --> 01:26:07.760 want additional 01:26:07.760 --> 01:26:13.149 cosmetic and feature things like the climate control is it 01:26:13.149 --> 01:26:14.279 it leads to a 01:26:14.279 --> 01:26:18.239 better development requiring the masonry wall guarantees 01:26:18.239 --> 01:26:20.560 that you know in an SUP 01:26:20.560 --> 01:26:24.000 in maybe a neighborhood that doesn't have a strong 01:26:24.000 --> 01:26:25.800 community to come out and 01:26:25.800 --> 01:26:30.489 argue at the SUP doesn't get a metal building with a wood 01:26:30.489 --> 01:26:31.920 fence around it 01:26:31.920 --> 01:26:35.430 with no cameras and you know lights that shine in backyards 01:26:35.430 --> 01:26:36.720 and stuff like that I 01:26:36.720 --> 01:26:41.220 really do think that this is one of the one of the most 01:26:41.220 --> 01:26:43.279 potentially damaging 01:26:43.279 --> 01:26:47.649 types of development to to a neighborhood if it's put done 01:26:47.649 --> 01:26:48.720 wrong so I 01:26:48.720 --> 01:26:52.449 think we do want to have a baseline that says you know full 01:26:52.449 --> 01:26:53.600 screening at the 01:26:53.600 --> 01:26:57.789 ground level masonry construction ground level doors not 01:26:57.789 --> 01:26:59.560 visible to the street or 01:26:59.560 --> 01:27:04.489 from adjacent properties I like some climate controlled 01:27:04.489 --> 01:27:06.840 aspect to it in CMG 01:27:06.840 --> 01:27:10.569 because CMG is a retail use like this isn't like out out in 01:27:10.569 --> 01:27:11.119 the middle of an 01:27:11.119 --> 01:27:14.890 industrial park sure you can just have acres and acres of 01:27:14.890 --> 01:27:15.760 squat metal 01:27:15.760 --> 01:27:19.630 buildings but I think in you know when we're talking about 01:27:19.630 --> 01:27:20.680 next to grocery 01:27:20.680 --> 01:27:24.439 stores and next to retail we we want to make sure that it's 01:27:24.439 --> 01:27:24.800 a high quality 01:27:24.800 --> 01:27:28.670 development and I don't know if it is a certain percentage 01:27:28.670 --> 01:27:29.920 should be climate 01:27:29.920 --> 01:27:33.970 controlled or if we can word it so that here's what you 01:27:33.970 --> 01:27:35.560 need here's what we 01:27:35.560 --> 01:27:40.260 recommend but you can deviate that from that with an SGP I 01:27:40.260 --> 01:27:41.720 know like on site 01:27:41.720 --> 01:27:45.090 development plans we basically have ADPs that allow you to 01:27:45.090 --> 01:27:46.039 to break some of the 01:27:46.039 --> 01:27:49.310 rules but you have to come justify why you think you should 01:27:49.310 --> 01:27:50.239 have no climate 01:27:50.239 --> 01:27:53.970 control or less than 30% climate control or whatever and so 01:27:53.970 --> 01:27:55.000 all of these issues 01:27:55.000 --> 01:27:58.529 make me lean toward a work session because I think I would 01:27:58.529 --> 01:27:59.439 I want to have 01:27:59.439 --> 01:28:04.329 some protections for the neighborhood in there while still 01:28:04.329 --> 01:28:06.039 allowing the use I 01:28:06.039 --> 01:28:10.729 want to kind of enter a dialogue back and forth possibly 01:28:10.729 --> 01:28:12.399 here as you pay and 01:28:12.399 --> 01:28:18.689 maybe Julie can help me with this with the requirement for 01:28:18.689 --> 01:28:20.159 an SGP all of those 01:28:20.159 --> 01:28:25.949 things if I understand SUPs correctly can be imposed by 01:28:25.949 --> 01:28:27.279 this Commission so if 01:28:27.279 --> 01:28:31.800 it's depending on the site if we felt like if it was 20% AC 01:28:31.800 --> 01:28:33.800 required or 50% or 01:28:33.800 --> 01:28:38.869 hey the site lends itself to a hundred we don't have a box 01:28:38.869 --> 01:28:40.399 then that every 01:28:40.399 --> 01:28:44.130 project has to start from this particular point and has to 01:28:44.130 --> 01:28:44.239 be 01:28:44.239 --> 01:28:51.239 customized it's the landowner developer comes forth with 01:28:51.239 --> 01:28:52.239 what their vision for 01:28:52.239 --> 01:28:55.970 that is and and comes to staff staff works through them as 01:28:55.970 --> 01:28:56.960 to what issues 01:28:56.960 --> 01:28:59.260 they are as where their neighborhoods or whatever and would 01:28:59.260 --> 01:29:00.119 make recommendation 01:29:00.119 --> 01:29:03.399 we feel like it needs to be a maximum of two stories or 01:29:03.399 --> 01:29:05.119 three stories it makes a 01:29:05.119 --> 01:29:08.850 recommendation to this board and this board would decide we 01:29:08.850 --> 01:29:09.760 agree with staff 01:29:09.760 --> 01:29:14.439 we want to add to it subtract from it but that all is taken 01:29:14.439 --> 01:29:14.960 care of and the 01:29:14.960 --> 01:29:18.689 protection for each of those sites is covered with an SUP 01:29:18.689 --> 01:29:19.800 am I understanding 01:29:19.800 --> 01:29:23.880 that that correctly so chapter 6 does outline what 01:29:23.880 --> 01:29:25.079 conditions can be placed 01:29:25.079 --> 01:29:28.590 upon a use within an SUP okay and that includes the 01:29:28.590 --> 01:29:30.359 regulation and limitation of 01:29:30.359 --> 01:29:35.850 uses a regulation setbacks and spacing fences walls 01:29:35.850 --> 01:29:37.159 requirement to submit a 01:29:37.159 --> 01:29:41.439 development plat the limiting the magnitude of traffic 01:29:41.439 --> 01:29:42.560 points of vehicular 01:29:42.560 --> 01:29:45.390 access signs building materials textures colors and 01:29:45.390 --> 01:29:46.680 architectural features 01:29:46.680 --> 01:29:50.189 landscaping screening buffering noise vibration dust odors 01:29:50.189 --> 01:29:50.840 or similar 01:29:50.840 --> 01:29:54.899 nuisances hours of operation regulation of period of time 01:29:54.899 --> 01:29:56.399 that the use shall be 01:29:56.399 --> 01:30:01.079 developed duration of use environmentally sensitive areas 01:30:01.079 --> 01:30:02.239 and any 01:30:02.239 --> 01:30:06.949 site development condition permitted by sub chapter 13 so 01:30:06.949 --> 01:30:08.720 the only one in our 01:30:08.720 --> 01:30:13.359 backup it's not really covered in that is the AC pretty 01:30:13.359 --> 01:30:14.279 much all the other 01:30:14.279 --> 01:30:19.050 things glass materials setbacks all those items are covered 01:30:19.050 --> 01:30:20.239 with that and in 01:30:20.239 --> 01:30:29.829 my understanding what you just shared with us I like a yes 01:30:29.829 --> 01:30:34.680 or no okay good so 01:30:34.680 --> 01:30:43.239 I don't know it includes height as well so with that I'm at 01:30:43.239 --> 01:30:44.239 this particular 01:30:44.239 --> 01:30:47.180 point I'm leaning towards supporting the motion and think 01:30:47.180 --> 01:30:48.279 that's a way for us to 01:30:48.279 --> 01:30:52.010 move this on forward I'm open if other commissioners are 01:30:52.010 --> 01:30:52.720 concerned and feel 01:30:52.720 --> 01:30:54.649 like there needs to be more discussion that we need to do 01:30:54.649 --> 01:30:55.239 something different 01:30:55.239 --> 01:30:59.220 but I think with that description I'm comfortable with an 01:30:59.220 --> 01:31:00.479 SUP and see where 01:31:00.479 --> 01:31:05.579 this goes Commissioner Ellis thank you chair just to your 01:31:05.579 --> 01:31:05.880 point 01:31:05.880 --> 01:31:12.340 Commissioner Taylor my concern is even if we have a work 01:31:12.340 --> 01:31:13.840 session that we might 01:31:13.840 --> 01:31:17.210 leave something out or put something in that that we don't 01:31:17.210 --> 01:31:17.960 necessarily want in 01:31:17.960 --> 01:31:21.930 there and and to chairs point with an SUP we can be very 01:31:21.930 --> 01:31:23.560 site specific about 01:31:23.560 --> 01:31:27.289 what we want to craft in there and so I'm I'm just I don't 01:31:27.289 --> 01:31:28.359 know if we're gonna 01:31:28.359 --> 01:31:32.439 get any better you know than what we have presented you 01:31:32.439 --> 01:31:33.960 know to L35 and if we 01:31:33.960 --> 01:31:36.329 could actually come to a consensus if we try to list all of 01:31:36.329 --> 01:31:37.079 these things in 01:31:37.079 --> 01:31:40.180 certain percentages and I guess that's that's just where I 01:31:40.180 --> 01:31:41.279 am and getting rid 01:31:41.279 --> 01:31:44.439 of that limitation and leaving it to site specific and you 01:31:44.439 --> 01:31:45.279 know as you see 01:31:45.279 --> 01:31:50.159 discussion that's that's where my mind is on that 01:31:54.119 --> 01:31:58.960 Commissioner Hutzpah just to make sure I'm tracking with 01:31:58.960 --> 01:32:01.239 you so given that list 01:32:01.239 --> 01:32:09.810 of things that is accessible by the SUP what what path does 01:32:09.810 --> 01:32:12.039 that give us for the 01:32:12.039 --> 01:32:22.880 AC control none okay well I think I'm with Commissioner 01:32:22.880 --> 01:32:24.479 Taylor there needs to 01:32:24.479 --> 01:32:29.970 be some access to require that so if we can fold that in 01:32:29.970 --> 01:32:31.319 some sort of friendly 01:32:31.319 --> 01:32:39.659 amendment I think to not have that access then becomes an 01:32:39.659 --> 01:32:41.039 access to require 01:32:41.039 --> 01:32:44.520 that then becomes onerous and and so it I could see an 01:32:44.520 --> 01:32:46.319 applicant saying that's 01:32:46.319 --> 01:32:49.149 not on the list of things that I have to discuss I'm not 01:32:49.149 --> 01:32:50.159 going to discuss it and 01:32:50.159 --> 01:32:55.390 and then that opens the door for nothing to have AC control 01:32:55.390 --> 01:32:56.560 what is it I need a 01:32:56.560 --> 01:33:02.229 mechanism that triggers that into the their SUP process or 01:33:02.229 --> 01:33:03.840 into the to the 01:33:03.840 --> 01:33:06.880 code because I'm hesitant all the way around the board to 01:33:06.880 --> 01:33:07.680 write the code I'll 01:33:07.680 --> 01:33:10.420 tell you because they're rewriting the code now so if there 01:33:10.420 --> 01:33:11.000 are we have 01:33:11.000 --> 01:33:14.210 consultants rewriting the code for us to spot rewrite the 01:33:14.210 --> 01:33:15.479 code I need to feel a 01:33:15.479 --> 01:33:18.850 little better about it because all this is subject to 01:33:18.850 --> 01:33:20.720 change well I want to jump 01:33:20.720 --> 01:33:23.260 in on one thing that may we're leaving out on the air 01:33:23.260 --> 01:33:25.399 conditioning piece these 01:33:25.399 --> 01:33:28.560 gentlemen are in the business to please their clientele 01:33:28.560 --> 01:33:30.119 there may be clientele 01:33:30.119 --> 01:33:34.539 that say we want air conditioned and they'll that's the pur 01:33:34.539 --> 01:33:35.920 view it'll have it 01:33:35.920 --> 01:33:39.649 in there and we as a governmental body don't have to impose 01:33:39.649 --> 01:33:40.640 that to say you 01:33:40.640 --> 01:33:43.720 will have this if the marketplace dictates that you know 01:33:43.720 --> 01:33:44.680 what we have AC 01:33:44.680 --> 01:33:51.560 I guarantee it's in there so Commissioner Beck thank you 01:33:51.560 --> 01:33:52.079 chair my 01:33:52.079 --> 01:33:55.810 thoughts were along the same line said Commissioner us was 01:33:55.810 --> 01:33:56.920 just spelled out that 01:33:56.920 --> 01:34:03.260 the SUP doesn't allow us that option to include AC go along 01:34:03.260 --> 01:34:04.079 with what 01:34:04.079 --> 01:34:06.989 Commissioner Taylor said I think you know when you enclose 01:34:06.989 --> 01:34:07.880 something that's air 01:34:07.880 --> 01:34:13.010 condition it does create an attractiveness that we want it 01:34:13.010 --> 01:34:13.359 to have 01:34:13.359 --> 01:34:20.119 in certain neighborhoods so I just to be clear then the SUP 01:34:20.119 --> 01:34:21.920 would give us an 01:34:21.920 --> 01:34:28.520 opportunity to include air conditioning would not okay then 01:34:28.520 --> 01:34:29.520 again I would I 01:34:29.520 --> 01:34:31.880 would probably go along with Commissioner Hudson and 01:34:31.880 --> 01:34:32.560 Commissioner 01:34:32.560 --> 01:34:36.119 Taylor on probably pushing this down the road a little bit 01:34:36.119 --> 01:34:38.640 okay I guess the board 01:34:38.640 --> 01:34:46.239 is in order Commissioner Rozelle thank you chair I'm trying 01:34:46.239 --> 01:34:47.039 to think about if 01:34:47.039 --> 01:34:50.119 we had an SUP that had a height requirement and we said 01:34:50.119 --> 01:34:50.960 that the the 01:34:50.960 --> 01:34:55.199 front of the facade needed to be 30 feet or whatever it is 01:34:55.199 --> 01:34:56.279 I've never seen an 01:34:56.279 --> 01:35:00.619 outdoor storage unit three stories tall so it seems like 01:35:00.619 --> 01:35:01.600 that just the height 01:35:01.600 --> 01:35:06.619 like we can dictate how high it goes we in the SUP it seems 01:35:06.619 --> 01:35:08.239 like then we have 01:35:08.239 --> 01:35:12.130 kind of a mechanism to to more or less imply climate 01:35:12.130 --> 01:35:14.000 control is gonna exist 01:35:14.000 --> 01:35:17.229 unless there's people out that have like open three story 01:35:17.229 --> 01:35:18.560 structures for storage 01:35:18.560 --> 01:35:23.420 units I just I can't envision a multi-story self storage 01:35:23.420 --> 01:35:24.319 unit not having 01:35:24.319 --> 01:35:28.640 AC so it seems like the SUP could could get us thus far but 01:35:28.640 --> 01:35:29.640 I also agree with the 01:35:29.640 --> 01:35:36.510 chair if it needs AC it'll have it'll have AC but I do 01:35:36.510 --> 01:35:37.439 validate Commissioner 01:35:37.439 --> 01:35:42.930 Taylor's point about trying to provide some sort of shell 01:35:42.930 --> 01:35:44.640 to encourage the best 01:35:44.640 --> 01:35:47.909 we can as a commission the protection of the neighborhood I 01:35:47.909 --> 01:35:48.640 totally get that and 01:35:48.640 --> 01:35:53.279 I think that's valid I just to have a work session to come 01:35:53.279 --> 01:35:55.039 up with with a code 01:35:55.039 --> 01:36:01.329 change that could be what we got here seven limitations 01:36:01.329 --> 01:36:02.840 long I'm all for it 01:36:02.840 --> 01:36:04.960 I'll be happy to I mean obviously I would sit in and 01:36:04.960 --> 01:36:06.720 participate I just 01:36:06.720 --> 01:36:09.770 don't know if it's it's needed but I have one question for 01:36:09.770 --> 01:36:13.319 staff miss Wyatt 01:36:14.359 --> 01:36:19.850 an SUP does not allow it seems for us to regulate or force 01:36:19.850 --> 01:36:21.720 climate control if 01:36:21.720 --> 01:36:27.210 there is a limitation in 35 if if we included that 01:36:27.210 --> 01:36:30.239 limitation in 35 could the 01:36:30.239 --> 01:36:33.090 commission at any point change that requirement so for 01:36:33.090 --> 01:36:34.159 instance if we said 01:36:34.159 --> 01:36:40.520 any structure for self storage unit has to have 20% climate 01:36:40.520 --> 01:36:41.840 controlled area if 01:36:41.840 --> 01:36:45.279 you're saying an SUP can't touch that then that would be 01:36:45.279 --> 01:36:46.479 the rule of the land 01:36:46.479 --> 01:36:49.850 would be 20% correct that's my understanding yes so I have 01:36:49.850 --> 01:36:50.000 some 01:36:50.000 --> 01:36:55.109 serious concerns codifying that then I just wanted to 01:36:55.109 --> 01:36:56.239 answer your point yes it 01:36:56.239 --> 01:37:00.880 could be greater than that but not less perfect thank you 01:37:00.880 --> 01:37:03.800 so if we said a minimum 01:37:03.800 --> 01:37:06.729 that puts a lot of weight on us that we get that minimum 01:37:06.729 --> 01:37:07.800 right and so we're 01:37:07.800 --> 01:37:11.270 gonna err on a low minimum it's gonna be 10% 5% then at 01:37:11.270 --> 01:37:13.279 what point it seems like 01:37:13.279 --> 01:37:18.909 since we have limitations to direct climate controlled 01:37:18.909 --> 01:37:20.800 requirements anyways 01:37:20.800 --> 01:37:25.090 then I'm even more inclined not to put that as a direct 01:37:25.090 --> 01:37:27.560 limitation but but 01:37:27.560 --> 01:37:31.079 rather let the applicant decide what the market will bear 01:37:31.079 --> 01:37:32.439 and what would be best 01:37:32.439 --> 01:37:36.310 serving the clients and so considering that kind of control 01:37:36.310 --> 01:37:37.439 is kind of off the 01:37:37.439 --> 01:37:41.220 table to me in every sense in terms of enforcing it unless 01:37:41.220 --> 01:37:41.699 we said just a 01:37:41.699 --> 01:37:46.560 minimum I still move forward with the motion and if it gets 01:37:46.560 --> 01:37:47.680 halted then we'll 01:37:47.680 --> 01:37:50.170 have a work session see if we can come up with a minimum 01:37:50.170 --> 01:37:51.800 percentage commissioner 01:37:51.800 --> 01:37:59.060 Hatchbuth to your to your point chair thank you again if we 01:37:59.060 --> 01:38:00.520 're talking if we're 01:38:00.520 --> 01:38:03.680 rolling this back and talking a specific project sure I 01:38:03.680 --> 01:38:05.399 think you know that's one 01:38:05.399 --> 01:38:09.439 thing but to open the door for every person that ever comes 01:38:09.439 --> 01:38:11.159 before us that's 01:38:11.159 --> 01:38:14.600 where I draw the line because there are people that think 01:38:14.600 --> 01:38:15.600 hey my car shouldn't 01:38:15.600 --> 01:38:17.689 be required to have this that or the other my property 01:38:17.689 --> 01:38:18.760 shouldn't require this 01:38:18.760 --> 01:38:21.359 that or the other and there's and there's those properties 01:38:21.359 --> 01:38:21.840 and those 01:38:21.840 --> 01:38:25.149 storage facilities that it may be just driven by price the 01:38:25.149 --> 01:38:26.239 market may bear a 01:38:26.239 --> 01:38:30.109 lower price lower product and and does that mean it's okay 01:38:30.109 --> 01:38:31.199 to put that back to 01:38:31.199 --> 01:38:36.609 neighborhood because I have I mean there's a lot of other 01:38:36.609 --> 01:38:38.399 for all the good 01:38:38.399 --> 01:38:40.779 this property has there's a lot of bad there's a wooden 01:38:40.779 --> 01:38:41.479 area we have an 01:38:41.479 --> 01:38:44.310 increased homeless population where I mean you can get me 01:38:44.310 --> 01:38:45.640 going down a hill 01:38:45.640 --> 01:38:49.600 that's pretty steep but I'm trying not to so because it's 01:38:49.600 --> 01:38:50.760 not relevant to I'm 01:38:50.760 --> 01:38:54.489 just saying if we're gonna kick the door wide open I want 01:38:54.489 --> 01:38:57.520 to have some ability to 01:38:57.520 --> 01:39:00.739 adjust that and I think that I'm amenable to some sort of 01:39:00.739 --> 01:39:02.000 minimum that 01:39:02.000 --> 01:39:07.279 then allows us to keep that door open so that we don't get 01:39:07.279 --> 01:39:09.000 a particular person 01:39:09.000 --> 01:39:10.960 that says oh that door is open I'm gonna run through it 01:39:10.960 --> 01:39:11.840 with the cheapest thing 01:39:11.840 --> 01:39:16.939 I can find to then provide affordability in the storage 01:39:16.939 --> 01:39:17.960 market that's needed 01:39:17.960 --> 01:39:23.119 right so I that's my only hesitation if we can come to to 01:39:23.119 --> 01:39:24.560 quote for Fred Durst 01:39:24.560 --> 01:39:27.859 if we can come to an agreeance with that respect then then 01:39:27.859 --> 01:39:29.840 I think I'm good well 01:39:29.840 --> 01:39:34.390 since you pointed a question at me I'm not kicking the door 01:39:34.390 --> 01:39:35.359 open and I'll think 01:39:35.359 --> 01:39:39.529 Commissioner Rosales with this motion it requires an SUP so 01:39:39.529 --> 01:39:40.920 each project that 01:39:40.920 --> 01:39:45.199 comes before this Commission and and Commissioners after us 01:39:45.199 --> 01:39:46.680 every project is 01:39:46.680 --> 01:39:50.199 going to be voted on based on what the criteria are and 01:39:50.199 --> 01:39:51.680 this Commission will 01:39:51.680 --> 01:39:54.829 have the power and the authority based on the list that 01:39:54.829 --> 01:39:55.960 Julie gave us to say 01:39:55.960 --> 01:39:58.699 this is what your project will have or won't have or you 01:39:58.699 --> 01:39:59.680 don't get an SUP and 01:39:59.680 --> 01:40:02.609 you don't get to build it and so I think there is a great 01:40:02.609 --> 01:40:03.920 amount of protection 01:40:03.920 --> 01:40:09.039 with an SUP in that regard for all projects and it gives 01:40:09.039 --> 01:40:10.079 this Commission 01:40:10.079 --> 01:40:14.850 flexibility to let people be creative and come up with 01:40:14.850 --> 01:40:16.840 unique solutions for 01:40:16.840 --> 01:40:19.880 individual sites and if this Commission feels like those 01:40:19.880 --> 01:40:21.239 are reasonable they can 01:40:21.239 --> 01:40:23.939 grant them and if they feel like there are some changes 01:40:23.939 --> 01:40:24.960 that need to be made 01:40:24.960 --> 01:40:28.159 then those conditions can be imposed on each individual 01:40:28.159 --> 01:40:29.399 property to make it 01:40:29.399 --> 01:40:31.579 where it will pass this Commission and so that's where I 01:40:31.579 --> 01:40:32.520 would think it would 01:40:32.520 --> 01:40:37.239 have some quite a bit of restrictions on it. Staff I think 01:40:37.239 --> 01:40:38.840 legal wants to chime in. 01:40:38.840 --> 01:40:41.899 I just want to make the board aware that there is a catch- 01:40:41.899 --> 01:40:43.979 all provision on the SUP 01:40:43.979 --> 01:40:49.680 requirement under 35.6.5 it's under subsection P and it's 01:40:49.680 --> 01:40:50.399 in addition to the 01:40:50.399 --> 01:40:53.229 other criteria you can make such other conditions as will 01:40:53.229 --> 01:40:54.119 make possible the 01:40:54.119 --> 01:40:57.060 development of the city in an orderly and efficient manner 01:40:57.060 --> 01:40:58.000 and in accordance 01:40:58.000 --> 01:41:00.300 with the provisions of the SUP chapter that are reasonable 01:41:00.300 --> 01:41:01.520 so that's going to 01:41:01.520 --> 01:41:07.090 be allowing you great latitude in your conditions that you 01:41:07.090 --> 01:41:09.520 impose. Thank you. 01:41:09.520 --> 01:41:13.680 Commissioner Tyler. Thank you Chair. I did have a question 01:41:13.680 --> 01:41:16.680 for Julie. 01:41:19.279 --> 01:41:23.010 Would it be feasible to do something along the lines of an 01:41:23.010 --> 01:41:24.920 ADP where there is 01:41:24.920 --> 01:41:30.810 a baseline set that can be varied from for a use like 01:41:30.810 --> 01:41:34.819 storage units? So the ADP 01:41:34.819 --> 01:41:39.220 process gives site design plans and you can basically throw 01:41:39.220 --> 01:41:40.439 out any of those 01:41:40.439 --> 01:41:44.340 restrictions if you get approval for your ADP or a wide 01:41:44.340 --> 01:41:45.640 variety of those 01:41:45.640 --> 01:41:48.640 restrictions can be changed. 01:41:51.640 --> 01:41:56.159 So we could amend the site design criteria for storage 01:41:56.159 --> 01:41:58.319 units. Thank you. 01:41:58.319 --> 01:42:02.500 So to the reason I'm asking that question is because the 01:42:02.500 --> 01:42:03.680 risk I see here 01:42:03.680 --> 01:42:07.170 is five years from now people won't know member of this 01:42:07.170 --> 01:42:08.439 commission will remember 01:42:08.439 --> 01:42:13.560 conversations about 20% or 50% air-conditioned or the mason 01:42:13.560 --> 01:42:13.840 ry 01:42:13.840 --> 01:42:18.199 screening or fenestrations they'll just see there's an SUP 01:42:18.199 --> 01:42:19.479 and if it's if it's 01:42:19.479 --> 01:42:23.939 in a neighborhood that has a very active community that 01:42:23.939 --> 01:42:25.640 community will show up in 01:42:25.640 --> 01:42:28.489 force and they will demand light restrictions and fencing 01:42:28.489 --> 01:42:29.159 and masonry 01:42:29.159 --> 01:42:33.199 construction but if it's in a neighbor if it's in a new 01:42:33.199 --> 01:42:34.439 area that doesn't 01:42:34.439 --> 01:42:37.500 have a neighborhood yet or if it's in a neighborhood that 01:42:37.500 --> 01:42:38.560 is less politically 01:42:38.560 --> 01:42:42.920 active then we will start at the baseline of what our code 01:42:42.920 --> 01:42:44.199 says. So right 01:42:44.199 --> 01:42:48.930 now the code will say any building material no screening 01:42:48.930 --> 01:42:49.920 required you know 01:42:49.920 --> 01:42:52.770 bay doors facing any direction no mention of air 01:42:52.770 --> 01:42:55.319 conditioning anything the 01:42:55.319 --> 01:42:57.619 five years from now the Commission won't even think about 01:42:57.619 --> 01:42:58.600 putting a restriction 01:42:58.600 --> 01:43:01.869 on air conditioning they might put a restriction on height 01:43:01.869 --> 01:43:04.479 maybe but those so 01:43:04.479 --> 01:43:08.210 if we don't have these base kind of levels of protection 01:43:08.210 --> 01:43:09.560 and I think we can 01:43:09.560 --> 01:43:13.720 say that every neighborhood deserves full wall screening 01:43:13.720 --> 01:43:14.960 from bay doors we 01:43:14.960 --> 01:43:18.260 don't want any bay doors on the ground floor visible from 01:43:18.260 --> 01:43:19.600 adjacent properties 01:43:19.600 --> 01:43:23.079 or the street or you can even say residential properties or 01:43:23.079 --> 01:43:24.720 the street you 01:43:24.720 --> 01:43:28.590 know the the landscape buffer requirements all of those you 01:43:28.590 --> 01:43:29.039 know we're 01:43:29.039 --> 01:43:33.239 we're looking at this one thing about possible height and 01:43:33.239 --> 01:43:34.439 we're I think we're 01:43:34.439 --> 01:43:38.439 ignoring a lot of the other potential risks with this use 01:43:38.439 --> 01:43:39.720 so I would like to 01:43:39.720 --> 01:43:43.090 if we're if we're moving forward tonight then I really do 01:43:43.090 --> 01:43:44.560 want to reinstate the 01:43:44.560 --> 01:43:48.319 masonry construction the no visible bay doors on the ground 01:43:48.319 --> 01:43:49.920 floor and the 01:43:49.920 --> 01:43:55.409 landscape buffer and the fencing materials. I have a 01:43:55.409 --> 01:43:57.640 question for staff I 01:43:57.640 --> 01:44:01.850 think if I understand Commissioner Taylor's concerns are 01:44:01.850 --> 01:44:02.960 there not 01:44:02.960 --> 01:44:07.359 universal requirements with buffering and screening with CM 01:44:07.359 --> 01:44:08.079 G against 01:44:08.079 --> 01:44:10.630 neighborhoods so it's not just a free-for-all there are 01:44:10.630 --> 01:44:11.359 requirements 01:44:11.359 --> 01:44:16.189 regardless of what we do here that that development would 01:44:16.189 --> 01:44:17.279 have to meet. 01:44:17.279 --> 01:44:22.770 Landscape buffering walls all those types of things in 01:44:22.770 --> 01:44:24.279 regards to CMG being 01:44:24.279 --> 01:44:27.329 against the neighborhood. They would have to they would 01:44:27.329 --> 01:44:28.159 have to meet sub chapter 01:44:28.159 --> 01:44:31.010 13 and yes there are buffer requirements between commercial 01:44:31.010 --> 01:44:32.199 uses and residential 01:44:32.199 --> 01:44:37.689 I believe it's a type C buffer which is a 15 foot buffer 01:44:37.689 --> 01:44:39.159 there aren't any 01:44:39.159 --> 01:44:44.250 masonry wall requirements there we do have perimeter fences 01:44:44.250 --> 01:44:45.600 that are that we 01:44:45.600 --> 01:44:51.090 have perimeter fence materials which include they can be 01:44:51.090 --> 01:44:52.039 wood, wrought iron, 01:44:52.039 --> 01:44:55.079 masonry, brick, vinyl, PVC or composite materials so those 01:44:55.079 --> 01:44:56.159 are perimeter fence 01:44:56.159 --> 01:45:00.119 materials we don't have any requirements for it but that is 01:45:00.119 --> 01:45:01.600 that is 01:45:01.600 --> 01:45:09.460 and then part of staff working with the applicant in order 01:45:09.460 --> 01:45:12.989 to move the use from the industrial use tables to the 01:45:12.989 --> 01:45:16.069 commercial use tables is that some of those site design 01:45:16.069 --> 01:45:20.199 requirements in sub chapter 13 industrial uses are exempt 01:45:20.199 --> 01:45:23.560 from and so to move those to the commercial use tables 01:45:23.560 --> 01:45:28.119 would then require them to at a minimum follow the 01:45:28.119 --> 01:45:30.720 commercial site design requirements. 01:45:30.720 --> 01:45:34.439 That includes building materials. 01:45:41.119 --> 01:45:46.850 It includes building materials standards on articulation, 01:45:46.850 --> 01:45:55.960 orientation, trash storage areas, screening so so that was 01:45:55.960 --> 01:45:58.439 the intent of moving that from the commercial to or from 01:45:58.439 --> 01:45:59.680 the industrial to the commercial. 01:46:01.600 --> 01:46:06.100 The minimum I mean the building materials I can tell you 01:46:06.100 --> 01:46:08.079 what they are. 01:46:08.079 --> 01:46:11.140 So fronts and street sides of buildings visible from the 01:46:11.140 --> 01:46:12.239 public right of way 01:46:12.239 --> 01:46:14.859 shall be non-reflective and shall be of wood, masonry, 01:46:14.859 --> 01:46:16.279 stone, decorative block, 01:46:16.279 --> 01:46:20.010 stucco, HDO board or other high quality material custom 01:46:20.010 --> 01:46:21.079 arily used for the 01:46:21.079 --> 01:46:23.680 building style. 01:46:23.680 --> 01:46:27.439 So no metal buildings? 01:46:28.439 --> 01:46:31.439 Metal buildings are customary for storage units. 01:46:31.439 --> 01:46:32.720 You can't do that though. 01:46:32.720 --> 01:46:35.720 It says customary for the building type. 01:46:37.720 --> 01:46:40.319 Typically we don't see metal buildings in commercial areas 01:46:40.319 --> 01:46:48.840 but the code I mean it so yeah it we don't typically see 01:46:48.840 --> 01:46:50.720 metal in commercial areas. 01:46:50.720 --> 01:46:54.140 I don't know if you're comfortable moving forward this or 01:46:54.140 --> 01:46:57.350 not I'm trying to reach consensus and be able to move it 01:46:57.350 --> 01:46:58.720 forward if we can. 01:46:58.720 --> 01:47:01.720 If it's not it will be possible. 01:47:01.720 --> 01:47:03.720 I understand that so. 01:47:03.720 --> 01:47:06.720 Did you want to do a motion for postponement? 01:47:09.720 --> 01:47:14.720 Well is the motioner open to a friendly amendment? 01:47:19.720 --> 01:47:22.720 Saying I'm unamendable sounds so mean. 01:47:24.720 --> 01:47:28.720 But I'm not and here's my thoughts. 01:47:28.720 --> 01:47:31.800 Since I was on the board next anyways I'll go ahead and 01:47:31.800 --> 01:47:32.720 take the floor. 01:47:32.720 --> 01:47:33.720 Commissioner Rossell. 01:47:33.720 --> 01:47:34.720 Thank you chair. 01:47:34.720 --> 01:47:35.720 A couple things. 01:47:35.720 --> 01:47:39.229 One way back Commissioner Hussbett said that we're kicking 01:47:39.229 --> 01:47:40.720 down, kicking the door wide open. 01:47:40.720 --> 01:47:44.449 And I think that's wholeheartedly a little off because we 01:47:44.449 --> 01:47:48.079 're actually making sure no one builds by right and it comes 01:47:48.079 --> 01:47:49.720 to staff to get an SEP. 01:47:49.720 --> 01:47:52.630 So instead of us spending hours trying to think of the 01:47:52.630 --> 01:47:56.720 exact shell that we want to put forth we're not omniscient. 01:47:56.720 --> 01:47:59.770 We don't know what each plot's going to look like and so we 01:47:59.770 --> 01:48:02.829 would then if we do a work session to find out exactly what 01:48:02.829 --> 01:48:04.720 all limitations we want to put in. 01:48:04.720 --> 01:48:07.770 We are then prescribing exactly how we think every 01:48:07.770 --> 01:48:11.010 potential self storage unit in our city should be built 01:48:11.010 --> 01:48:12.720 regardless of anything. 01:48:12.720 --> 01:48:14.720 That's a broad stroke. 01:48:14.720 --> 01:48:17.020 And so we could work a long time but we still could miss 01:48:17.020 --> 01:48:17.720 something. 01:48:17.720 --> 01:48:20.720 And what if we set the minimum for AC to hot. 01:48:20.720 --> 01:48:23.430 There's just a lot of things that would pigeonhole 01:48:23.430 --> 01:48:26.600 applicants from building where an SEP actually allows for 01:48:26.600 --> 01:48:28.720 some creativity and flexibility. 01:48:28.720 --> 01:48:32.819 And Commissioner Taylor's point earlier you talked about 01:48:32.819 --> 01:48:37.199 individuals building metal structures or you elaborated 01:48:37.199 --> 01:48:39.720 more squat houses and everything else. 01:48:39.720 --> 01:48:42.550 But you also said in the work session that those generally 01:48:42.550 --> 01:48:44.720 are just placeholders to flip the property. 01:48:44.720 --> 01:48:49.149 And so it seems like there might be two different speaks 01:48:49.149 --> 01:48:53.449 being said that you're against those per se but really you 01:48:53.449 --> 01:48:54.720 know they're temporary. 01:48:54.720 --> 01:48:57.170 Or at least you stated as such that the plan would be for 01:48:57.170 --> 01:48:58.720 them to be temporary anyways. 01:48:58.720 --> 01:49:00.789 So when it comes to it doesn't even sound like a middle 01:49:00.789 --> 01:49:03.170 build metal building could be built anyways but it seems 01:49:03.170 --> 01:49:05.720 like if someone's going to put up a cheap building 01:49:05.720 --> 01:49:08.720 structure they are probably waiting to flip that property. 01:49:08.720 --> 01:49:10.430 And so another development can come in because like you 01:49:10.430 --> 01:49:11.720 said really easy to tear those down. 01:49:11.720 --> 01:49:15.289 And so I'm not overly concerned about that because of the 01:49:15.289 --> 01:49:18.720 point you brought up in terms of longevity of that. 01:49:18.720 --> 01:49:22.770 And then the other point I have is in our backup we had 01:49:22.770 --> 01:49:24.720 section 35 here. 01:49:24.720 --> 01:49:26.720 I don't know if it's an exhausted list of everything. 01:49:26.720 --> 01:49:30.600 It looks like it could be pretty exhaustive but as we're 01:49:30.600 --> 01:49:35.060 talking I stopped counting at about 102 SUP cases in the 01:49:35.060 --> 01:49:35.720 city. 01:49:35.720 --> 01:49:39.020 Now Commissioner Taylor I know you believe that SUPs are 01:49:39.020 --> 01:49:42.020 okay but you're also saying that in five years what is that 01:49:42.020 --> 01:49:42.720 person going to think? 01:49:42.720 --> 01:49:45.720 What is the commission going to do? 01:49:45.720 --> 01:49:46.720 But we have SUPs. 01:49:46.720 --> 01:49:49.760 It's not like this crazy thing to say we don't need an SUP 01:49:49.760 --> 01:49:52.520 here because in five or seven years we don't know if we can 01:49:52.520 --> 01:49:54.720 trust the commission at that point to know what's going on. 01:49:54.720 --> 01:49:59.229 But yet in over 100 other cases historically and even us 01:49:59.229 --> 01:50:01.720 have agreed that SUPs are okay. 01:50:01.720 --> 01:50:05.449 So SUPs are known in the city and I feel that it's not like 01:50:05.449 --> 01:50:11.180 thinking out like the way I heard it said from you is an SU 01:50:11.180 --> 01:50:13.720 P provides this base level. 01:50:13.720 --> 01:50:15.880 We're going to start at something that there's a new 01:50:15.880 --> 01:50:16.720 neighborhood. 01:50:16.720 --> 01:50:19.449 They don't know what to do as if the council and the 01:50:19.449 --> 01:50:22.649 commission a decade from now is going to be ignorant to how 01:50:22.649 --> 01:50:25.859 to facilitate a structure being built within CMG for self 01:50:25.859 --> 01:50:26.720 storage. 01:50:26.720 --> 01:50:31.819 So I think the idea of having self storage units permitted 01:50:31.819 --> 01:50:36.699 by SUP in CMG is in alignment with a lot of other SUPs that 01:50:36.699 --> 01:50:40.720 we have without adding a ton of limitations. 01:50:40.720 --> 01:50:45.970 And further it seems like with legal's opinion we would 01:50:45.970 --> 01:50:51.470 have some leverage to put into the SUP the climate control 01:50:51.470 --> 01:50:52.720 portion. 01:50:52.720 --> 01:50:58.130 So I feel pretty strongly that CMG with SUP is appropriate 01:50:58.130 --> 01:51:03.600 and it provides this commission and the staff really great 01:51:03.600 --> 01:51:08.699 power to construct a good project going forward on any 01:51:08.699 --> 01:51:13.689 property regardless of the shape or size or where it's 01:51:13.689 --> 01:51:15.720 located in the city. 01:51:15.720 --> 01:51:17.720 Commissioner Taylor. 01:51:17.720 --> 01:51:25.279 I move we amend the motion to also require an SUP in ECI 01:51:25.279 --> 01:51:29.720 and ECC zoning categories. 01:51:29.720 --> 01:51:32.720 Does that come back to me? 01:51:32.720 --> 01:51:34.720 Commissioner Rossell. 01:51:34.720 --> 01:51:36.720 Does that supersede the motion on the table? 01:51:36.720 --> 01:51:39.720 Yes, an amendment would supersede your motion. 01:51:39.720 --> 01:51:44.720 So we need a second on that. 01:51:44.720 --> 01:51:48.720 But we have a motion. 01:51:48.720 --> 01:51:49.720 I'm not going to second that and let me tell you why. 01:51:49.720 --> 01:51:52.720 We had an applicant who brought this forth. 01:51:52.720 --> 01:51:56.770 The applicant brought it forth as CMG and I believe his 01:51:56.770 --> 01:52:01.180 point to this commission was staff added these other areas 01:52:01.180 --> 01:52:01.720 on. 01:52:01.720 --> 01:52:04.810 And I think when we have someone who takes the time and the 01:52:04.810 --> 01:52:08.159 due diligence to come before us and bring a matter, I think 01:52:08.159 --> 01:52:11.520 we should honor that and keep it there rather than we go 01:52:11.520 --> 01:52:13.720 off into a whole lot of other areas. 01:52:13.720 --> 01:52:16.720 So I'm not willing to second it. 01:52:16.720 --> 01:52:20.170 I'm going to go with the CMG with the SUP and I think that 01:52:20.170 --> 01:52:23.590 's a good way for us to address their issue that's more 01:52:23.590 --> 01:52:27.229 pressing and also give us the flexibility that we talked 01:52:27.229 --> 01:52:28.720 about earlier. 01:52:28.720 --> 01:52:38.229 So is there a second for Commissioner Taylor's friendly 01:52:38.229 --> 01:52:40.720 amendment? 01:52:40.720 --> 01:52:41.720 Seeing none. 01:52:41.720 --> 01:52:45.619 It dies and we will revert back to the motion that we have 01:52:45.619 --> 01:52:47.720 a first and a second before us. 01:52:47.720 --> 01:52:51.510 And Commissioner Taylor, before I call on the vote, I will 01:52:51.510 --> 01:52:52.720 recognize you. 01:52:52.720 --> 01:52:53.720 Thank you, Chair. 01:52:53.720 --> 01:53:03.720 I move we amend the motion to reinstate requirements one, 01:53:03.720 --> 01:53:06.720 three, and five as originally proposed. 01:53:06.720 --> 01:53:11.390 That's 100% masonry stone or architecture or concrete block 01:53:11.390 --> 01:53:11.720 . 01:53:11.720 --> 01:53:14.770 No overhead bay doors or storage unit doors visible from 01:53:14.770 --> 01:53:16.720 adjacent properties right away. 01:53:16.720 --> 01:53:22.779 And proposed fencing materials will be masonry or wrought 01:53:22.779 --> 01:53:23.720 iron. 01:53:23.720 --> 01:53:24.720 Commissioner Bec. 01:53:24.720 --> 01:53:28.720 I can second that. 01:53:28.720 --> 01:53:29.720 Okay. 01:53:29.720 --> 01:53:35.579 So we have a first and a second to add those extra items on 01:53:35.579 --> 01:53:36.720 there. 01:53:36.720 --> 01:53:38.420 We will vote on that measure first and see if it passes or 01:53:38.420 --> 01:53:39.720 fails legal and then come back to the -- 01:53:39.720 --> 01:53:40.720 That's correct. 01:53:40.720 --> 01:53:41.720 Okay. 01:53:41.720 --> 01:53:47.210 So we have that motion by Commissioner Taylor, seconded by 01:53:47.210 --> 01:53:51.720 Commissioner Bec to add item one, three, and five. 01:53:51.720 --> 01:53:53.720 I will call for Commissioner Roselle. 01:53:53.720 --> 01:53:56.760 Just for clarification, Commissioner Taylor spoke earlier 01:53:56.760 --> 01:53:59.720 about having that third item limited to first floor only. 01:53:59.720 --> 01:54:01.720 Are you not including that on this one? 01:54:01.720 --> 01:54:02.720 First floor, yeah, I'm sorry. 01:54:02.720 --> 01:54:03.720 Okay. 01:54:03.720 --> 01:54:06.020 So to clarify, third, item three, no overhead bay doors and 01:54:06.020 --> 01:54:08.170 storage unit doors visible from adjacent property or public 01:54:08.170 --> 01:54:09.720 right away on the first floor. 01:54:09.720 --> 01:54:11.720 Okay. 01:54:11.720 --> 01:54:13.720 We have a first and a second. 01:54:13.720 --> 01:54:15.720 I'm going to make a comment again. 01:54:15.720 --> 01:54:19.449 Before you do that, Commissioner Bec, are you still second 01:54:19.449 --> 01:54:20.720 ing that change? 01:54:20.720 --> 01:54:21.720 Yes. 01:54:21.720 --> 01:54:23.720 Okay. 01:54:23.720 --> 01:54:27.449 I'm not in favor of amending and adding those things for 01:54:27.449 --> 01:54:29.720 the same reasons we have in SUP. 01:54:29.720 --> 01:54:33.689 And I am concerned about, again, going down the road of 01:54:33.689 --> 01:54:37.720 putting all these things on that then when it comes back, 01:54:37.720 --> 01:54:38.720 we have to start undoing things. 01:54:38.720 --> 01:54:40.720 I think we have the SUP. 01:54:40.720 --> 01:54:42.720 I don't think it's a baseline minimum. 01:54:42.720 --> 01:54:45.930 I think just like these gentlemen have come before us 01:54:45.930 --> 01:54:49.720 tonight, they didn't come before us with a bare minimum. 01:54:49.720 --> 01:54:52.949 And I'm not going to make their project the only determiner 01:54:52.949 --> 01:54:55.720 , but I have great faith in our market system. 01:54:55.720 --> 01:54:57.720 And people come out and invest this kind of money. 01:54:57.720 --> 01:54:59.720 It's not to build the cheapest thing. 01:54:59.720 --> 01:55:01.720 It's for it to be successful. 01:55:01.720 --> 01:55:05.119 They are already talking about on their own an air-cond 01:55:05.119 --> 01:55:07.720 itioned space and all of these things. 01:55:07.720 --> 01:55:10.130 And I think we are short-sighted at this commission to 01:55:10.130 --> 01:55:12.720 think that we know how to tell them how to do business. 01:55:12.720 --> 01:55:16.449 And so I think we need to stick, and that's why I'm not 01:55:16.449 --> 01:55:20.279 going to support it, to do the CMG with an SUP and give the 01:55:20.279 --> 01:55:22.720 free market the opportunity to provide the services that 01:55:22.720 --> 01:55:27.720 each community wants, willing to pay for in our great city. 01:55:27.720 --> 01:55:32.409 And so with that, any other discussion or comment before I 01:55:32.409 --> 01:55:36.720 call for a vote on the board on this amended motion? 01:55:36.720 --> 01:55:40.720 So a vote will be for and a vote no will be against. 01:55:40.720 --> 01:55:54.720 I will call for a vote on the board. 01:55:54.720 --> 01:55:57.720 The motion fails 4-2. 01:55:57.720 --> 01:56:01.869 We will now go back to the motion that we had before us by 01:56:01.869 --> 01:56:03.720 Commissioner Rozelle. 01:56:03.720 --> 01:56:07.720 And I forget who the seconder was, Commissioner Ellis. 01:56:07.720 --> 01:56:13.720 And I would ask Commissioner Rozelle to restate his motion. 01:56:13.720 --> 01:56:21.640 So my motion is to approve item Z17-001, including the 01:56:21.640 --> 01:56:24.890 relocation of self-storage units from industrial land use 01:56:24.890 --> 01:56:28.970 categories to the commercial land use, to permit self-st 01:56:28.970 --> 01:56:33.720 orage units in CMG district with an SUP. 01:56:33.720 --> 01:56:35.720 And that's it. 01:56:35.720 --> 01:56:38.720 Okay. Commissioner Ellis, second on that still? 01:56:38.720 --> 01:56:39.720 Yes. 01:56:39.720 --> 01:56:40.720 Okay. 01:56:40.720 --> 01:56:41.720 We have a first and a second. 01:56:41.720 --> 01:56:47.720 Any discussion before I call for a vote on the board? 01:56:47.720 --> 01:56:57.720 Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board. 01:56:57.720 --> 01:57:07.720 Motion carries 5-1. 01:57:07.720 --> 01:57:11.720 Okay. That will move us to our item C this evening. 01:57:11.720 --> 01:57:15.720 Thank you for your presentation and your time. 01:57:15.720 --> 01:57:18.720 And good luck on your project. 01:57:18.720 --> 01:57:23.720 Look forward to seeing you again soon. 01:57:23.720 --> 01:57:29.720 Item C, this item has been withdrawn by the applicant. 01:57:29.720 --> 01:57:32.720 That will move us to item D. 01:57:32.720 --> 01:57:38.720 And I'm going to open our public hearing on Z17-0002B. 01:57:38.720 --> 01:57:45.720 And I will call on Julie Wyatt for presentation. 01:57:45.720 --> 01:57:51.210 The applicant has requested to postpone this item until the 01:57:51.210 --> 01:57:53.720 April 26 P&Z meeting. 01:57:53.720 --> 01:57:54.720 Okay. 01:57:54.720 --> 01:57:58.819 Since we have opened the public hearing, I'm going to ask, 01:57:58.819 --> 01:58:01.590 since we've had some people come this evening, were either 01:58:01.590 --> 01:58:04.720 of you all wanting to speak on this item tonight? 01:58:04.720 --> 01:58:07.720 No? You here for something else? 01:58:07.720 --> 01:58:11.720 Okay. 01:58:11.720 --> 01:58:16.039 So we'll keep the public hearing open and then we'll do the 01:58:16.039 --> 01:58:18.720 motion to postpone if you so desire. 01:58:18.720 --> 01:58:21.720 I was just going to ask. 01:58:21.720 --> 01:58:25.590 Okay. I was just going to leave the public hearing open and 01:58:25.590 --> 01:58:30.720 make a motion to continue it to April 26. Is that legal? 01:58:30.720 --> 01:58:34.909 Chair will motion that this item will be continued to date 01:58:34.909 --> 01:58:39.720 certain of April 26 and the public hearing will remain open 01:58:39.720 --> 01:58:39.720 . 01:58:39.720 --> 01:58:42.720 So we don't have to re-notice this item. 01:58:42.720 --> 01:58:43.720 Commissioner Taylor. 01:58:43.720 --> 01:58:44.720 Second. 01:58:44.720 --> 01:58:47.720 Okay. We have a first and a second. Any discussion? 01:58:47.720 --> 01:58:56.720 Seeing none, I call for a vote on the board. 01:58:56.720 --> 01:58:59.720 The motion carries 6-0. 01:58:59.720 --> 01:59:02.720 I will move us to item E. 01:59:02.720 --> 01:59:18.039 We'll open the public hearing for Z16-0030A and we'll call 01:59:18.039 --> 01:59:25.720 on Julie White for presentation. 01:59:25.720 --> 01:59:29.720 Good evening. I'm presenting 1630 to you tonight. 01:59:29.720 --> 01:59:35.210 The request is to rezone approximately .4 acres from 01:59:35.210 --> 01:59:39.720 downtown residential one to downtown residential two. 01:59:39.720 --> 01:59:43.720 Would you like for me to go over the whole presentation? 01:59:43.720 --> 01:59:46.850 I think the shortened version and we have people waiting 01:59:46.850 --> 01:59:47.720 for a while. 01:59:47.720 --> 01:59:51.890 Okay. So based upon the discussion items that we talked 01:59:51.890 --> 01:59:55.649 about in the work session, the existing zoning pattern as 01:59:55.649 --> 01:59:57.720 well as the existing land use pattern, 01:59:57.720 --> 02:00:01.149 staff does recommend denial of this request as this change 02:00:01.149 --> 02:00:04.979 in zoning could interrupt this existing zoning pattern at 02:00:04.979 --> 02:00:07.850 the block level and potentially impede the development of 02:00:07.850 --> 02:00:09.720 the area in a cohesive manner. 02:00:09.720 --> 02:00:14.010 I'll stand for any questions and I believe the applicant is 02:00:14.010 --> 02:00:14.720 here. 02:00:14.720 --> 02:00:16.720 Yes, the applicant is here. 02:00:16.720 --> 02:00:18.720 I have a question. 02:00:18.720 --> 02:00:22.989 We talked about in work session that the property to the 02:00:22.989 --> 02:00:27.229 southwest of this is DCG, which is even a higher, more 02:00:27.229 --> 02:00:31.720 intensive zoning than what is being requested here. 02:00:31.720 --> 02:00:38.960 With that said, why is staff not in support of this when we 02:00:38.960 --> 02:00:46.439 have an even higher and greater zoning designation within a 02:00:46.439 --> 02:00:48.720 half a lot away? 02:00:48.720 --> 02:00:52.250 Sure. And we did look at that and we do see that 02:00:52.250 --> 02:00:55.829 development pattern and that zoning pattern on the edges of 02:00:55.829 --> 02:00:58.720 the neighborhood where those more intensive zoning 02:00:58.720 --> 02:01:00.720 districts are there 02:01:00.720 --> 02:01:03.020 and have developed in accordance with those zoning 02:01:03.020 --> 02:01:03.720 districts. 02:01:03.720 --> 02:01:08.220 However, because the zoning pattern on this particular 02:01:08.220 --> 02:01:12.460 street and within that block is so cohesive and has 02:01:12.460 --> 02:01:13.720 remained so, 02:01:13.720 --> 02:01:18.739 then we felt like that this request, because it would 02:01:18.739 --> 02:01:24.810 isolate the zoning district, wasn't appropriate for this 02:01:24.810 --> 02:01:26.720 location. 02:01:26.720 --> 02:01:31.550 So that was staff's analysis and that's how we arrived in 02:01:31.550 --> 02:01:33.720 our recommendation. 02:01:33.720 --> 02:01:38.840 I could see that if we were on the block to the east, but 02:01:38.840 --> 02:01:41.699 the block that we're in, we have DCG in the bottom corner 02:01:41.699 --> 02:01:46.720 and we have, I believe it is DR2 in the northwest corner. 02:01:46.720 --> 02:01:51.909 So in that block already, there are higher uses and zoning 02:01:51.909 --> 02:01:52.720 wise. 02:01:52.720 --> 02:01:57.090 Yes, within the larger block and particularly that side 02:01:57.090 --> 02:02:01.060 that faces the street behind it, that Avenue A, you're 02:02:01.060 --> 02:02:03.720 right, there are those additional zoning districts. 02:02:03.720 --> 02:02:07.449 But because Neff Street and that block on Neff Street has 02:02:07.449 --> 02:02:12.060 that consistent zoning of DR1, that's why we feel like it's 02:02:12.060 --> 02:02:13.720 important to maintain it. 02:02:13.720 --> 02:02:15.720 Fair enough. Thank you for the explanation. 02:02:15.720 --> 02:02:20.720 Any other questions for staff? 02:02:20.720 --> 02:02:23.720 Anybody else? Thank you, Julie. Thank you. 02:02:23.720 --> 02:02:27.090 This is a public hearing. Anyone wishing to speak on this 02:02:27.090 --> 02:02:28.720 item? Please come forward. 02:02:28.720 --> 02:02:34.720 You have a card, great. Are you the applicant? Yes, sir. 02:02:34.720 --> 02:02:38.090 Okay. If you'll give us your name and address and you'll 02:02:38.090 --> 02:02:40.720 have 10 minutes to tell us about your project. 02:02:40.720 --> 02:02:42.720 Name is Mickey Patterson. 02:02:42.720 --> 02:02:46.300 The address for the property is that what you're referring 02:02:46.300 --> 02:02:46.720 to? 02:02:46.720 --> 02:02:48.720 Your current address where you live. 02:02:48.720 --> 02:02:52.720 8805 Random Road in Fort Worth, Texas. 02:02:52.720 --> 02:02:55.720 Okay. 02:02:55.720 --> 02:02:56.720 Who needs a card? 02:02:56.720 --> 02:02:59.720 I'm Sherry Patterson and I live with him. 02:02:59.720 --> 02:03:01.720 Okay. 02:03:01.720 --> 02:03:04.270 Well, are you all going together here and sharing the 10 02:03:04.270 --> 02:03:06.720 minutes or are each of you going to take 10 minutes? 02:03:06.720 --> 02:03:08.720 No, we'll be done hopefully. 02:03:08.720 --> 02:03:11.239 Okay. Can we do two people speaking at the same time back 02:03:11.239 --> 02:03:11.720 and forth? 02:03:11.720 --> 02:03:13.720 No, you need to go one at a time. 02:03:13.720 --> 02:03:14.720 Okay. So I was just clarifying. 02:03:14.720 --> 02:03:18.720 I can dive into everything and then -- 02:03:18.720 --> 02:03:19.720 Okay. 02:03:19.720 --> 02:03:20.720 Do you want me to look this? 02:03:20.720 --> 02:03:23.720 Yes, ma'am. I didn't know where it was at. 02:03:23.720 --> 02:03:27.840 And while she's getting that started, just a handful of 02:03:27.840 --> 02:03:29.720 slides to go through. 02:03:29.720 --> 02:03:33.229 I know a few of the slides will talk a little more in depth 02:03:33.229 --> 02:03:35.720 about what we envision on the project, 02:03:35.720 --> 02:03:38.840 just more to give a context of what we're looking at and 02:03:38.840 --> 02:03:39.720 then it will go more to the -- 02:03:39.720 --> 02:03:43.449 I think more of a succinct approach is just what it is we 02:03:43.449 --> 02:03:45.720 're trying to do, which is fairly well summed up, 02:03:45.720 --> 02:03:48.720 is to go from a DR1 to a DR2. 02:03:48.720 --> 02:03:49.720 Great. 02:03:49.720 --> 02:03:53.720 And we do try to get the neighbors around us, you know, 02:03:53.720 --> 02:03:54.720 because we do feel like -- 02:03:54.720 --> 02:03:57.060 I went to school here and I'm not going to say how many 02:03:57.060 --> 02:04:00.720 years ago, but even parking then was an issue. 02:04:00.720 --> 02:04:03.760 So I know how important it is to live close to the school 02:04:03.760 --> 02:04:05.720 and now parking is just crazy. 02:04:05.720 --> 02:04:08.359 You can't get a mile from the school and I know my niece 02:04:08.359 --> 02:04:09.720 goes here and she's like -- 02:04:09.720 --> 02:04:11.720 I can see legal starting to squirm. 02:04:11.720 --> 02:04:13.720 So we typically one at a time. 02:04:13.720 --> 02:04:16.050 So if you'd like to go first, we'd be happy to hear from 02:04:16.050 --> 02:04:16.720 you next. 02:04:16.720 --> 02:04:18.720 Sure. 02:04:18.720 --> 02:04:21.989 So just to kind of give you an idea of the project, just to 02:04:21.989 --> 02:04:23.720 kind of put it in context of what our vision is, 02:04:23.720 --> 02:04:25.720 I've got a couple slides. 02:04:25.720 --> 02:04:28.869 This is what I think we've talked to you correct about a 02:04:28.869 --> 02:04:29.720 little bit. 02:04:29.720 --> 02:04:32.420 Kind of the scope of what we're looking at is a shipping 02:04:32.420 --> 02:04:33.720 container apartment. 02:04:33.720 --> 02:04:36.720 It's kind of an artsy, trendy design. 02:04:36.720 --> 02:04:39.210 You see it pop up in a lot of cities, Austin, some of these 02:04:39.210 --> 02:04:41.720 outskirts, a handful of places in Europe. 02:04:41.720 --> 02:04:46.069 So this is our project and what we're looking at, obviously 02:04:46.069 --> 02:04:47.720 because it appeals to young professionals, 02:04:47.720 --> 02:04:50.720 college students and things of that nature. 02:04:50.720 --> 02:04:52.770 This is really more for something to share with and you can 02:04:52.770 --> 02:04:53.720 read through it later. 02:04:53.720 --> 02:04:56.550 We don't need to dive into all of it, but it just talks 02:04:56.550 --> 02:04:58.720 about more of what we envisioned on the project. 02:04:58.720 --> 02:05:01.859 We've just got some supportive material about kind of, 02:05:01.859 --> 02:05:04.720 again, what we plan to put there and that this is not just, 02:05:04.720 --> 02:05:06.720 hey, we want to throw together something that's super cheap 02:05:06.720 --> 02:05:09.720 and just a bunch of units to cram college kids into 02:05:09.720 --> 02:05:12.720 because you can get more out of them that way. 02:05:12.720 --> 02:05:15.340 So this, again, just gives a little bit of background on 02:05:15.340 --> 02:05:19.720 this, but then I want to hop into particularly what the 02:05:19.720 --> 02:05:20.720 location is. 02:05:20.720 --> 02:05:24.720 And as she outlined this here, this is a high-level view. 02:05:24.720 --> 02:05:28.869 Take maybe a little easier view, easier for me anyways to 02:05:28.869 --> 02:05:29.720 look at. 02:05:29.720 --> 02:05:35.229 And as you mentioned, the edges here, I don't know if I can 02:05:35.229 --> 02:05:35.720 get a... 02:05:35.720 --> 02:05:38.859 Like you mentioned with the DCG here and as well as the 02:05:38.859 --> 02:05:42.720 additional DR2 that's encroaching already in the areas. 02:05:42.720 --> 02:05:46.500 What we were hoping, given that there's this push with the 02:05:46.500 --> 02:05:49.720 higher occupancy or higher density living, 02:05:49.720 --> 02:05:53.600 that this would really go with the goal of what the area is 02:05:53.600 --> 02:05:54.720 trying to do, 02:05:54.720 --> 02:05:58.180 which is getting higher density living, more options 02:05:58.180 --> 02:06:00.720 availability for the college students, 02:06:00.720 --> 02:06:04.159 as well as the other young professionals moving into the 02:06:04.159 --> 02:06:04.720 area. 02:06:04.720 --> 02:06:07.680 One of the things that we did notice here is that these 02:06:07.680 --> 02:06:11.340 upper parts and as well in the end, you do see a handful on 02:06:11.340 --> 02:06:12.720 each side, 02:06:12.720 --> 02:06:16.449 just more duplexes going up on the newer, on the ones that 02:06:16.449 --> 02:06:20.579 have been, I guess, older homes that were bought, torn down 02:06:20.579 --> 02:06:22.720 and duplexes put up. 02:06:22.720 --> 02:06:26.020 As Sherry was saying earlier, the homes here, and we were 02:06:26.020 --> 02:06:28.720 advised, and I think it was you or one of your counterparts 02:06:28.720 --> 02:06:29.720 had mentioned that 02:06:29.720 --> 02:06:33.510 one of the things that would make this easier is reaching 02:06:33.510 --> 02:06:36.520 out to the people along this street or even on the edges 02:06:36.520 --> 02:06:36.720 here 02:06:36.720 --> 02:06:40.229 to see if there was a consensus of migrating to a DR2 or 02:06:40.229 --> 02:06:41.720 alternate zoning. 02:06:41.720 --> 02:06:45.220 The challenge we had is the people, especially there to the 02:06:45.220 --> 02:06:47.720 south, everyone that was reached out to, 02:06:47.720 --> 02:06:49.710 these are people that have either been in the property a 02:06:49.710 --> 02:06:53.210 long time, elderly, 80, 90 years old, we just got very 02:06:53.210 --> 02:06:54.720 limited response. 02:06:54.720 --> 02:06:57.760 I think that, as you can tell by the properties, these are 02:06:57.760 --> 02:07:01.000 older properties that are, yeah, they don't either not live 02:07:01.000 --> 02:07:03.720 there, someone out of state that has the property. 02:07:03.720 --> 02:07:05.720 So, you know, this was just a challenge. 02:07:05.720 --> 02:07:08.170 I know that was the goal and we were hoping that we could 02:07:08.170 --> 02:07:10.770 come here and say, hey, this is great, we've got all the 02:07:10.770 --> 02:07:12.720 people around us that want to do this. 02:07:12.720 --> 02:07:13.720 Unfortunately, we just don't. 02:07:13.720 --> 02:07:16.369 And that's just not because the people don't think want to, 02:07:16.369 --> 02:07:18.720 it's just because they can't get a hold of them. 02:07:18.720 --> 02:07:23.880 So, again, that's our view of the area and the way we see 02:07:23.880 --> 02:07:26.720 the properties migrating. 02:07:26.720 --> 02:07:29.720 I think this fits in with the plan very well. 02:07:29.720 --> 02:07:34.130 The build site, this just gives you a little view, I think 02:07:34.130 --> 02:07:38.060 from a standpoint, the lot, you can see, is plenty large, 02:07:38.060 --> 02:07:41.210 especially when you consider this spot that was just to the 02:07:41.210 --> 02:07:43.720 southwest is a commercial apartment complex. 02:07:43.720 --> 02:07:46.720 So, this is, I think it's an 18 unit complex. 02:07:46.720 --> 02:07:49.109 So, this has got quite a few units crammed in this space 02:07:49.109 --> 02:07:49.720 already. 02:07:49.720 --> 02:07:53.449 And we would do everything here to maintain the 02:07:53.449 --> 02:07:57.329 neighborhood, the trees, the greenery, having the green 02:07:57.329 --> 02:07:58.720 spaces on the edge of the property. 02:07:58.720 --> 02:08:01.949 This isn't a goal of coming in, rip everything out, cram as 02:08:01.949 --> 02:08:03.720 many spaces as you can there. 02:08:03.720 --> 02:08:07.789 So, the whole idea of what we're trying to do is to keep 02:08:07.789 --> 02:08:12.300 this artsy urban design and we want to bring that home feel 02:08:12.300 --> 02:08:16.560 here and something that can build out into the rest of the 02:08:16.560 --> 02:08:17.720 neighborhood. 02:08:17.720 --> 02:08:20.649 Just the main benefits we see in being able to do this, it 02:08:20.649 --> 02:08:23.510 does add a lot of the much needed housing in the area for 02:08:23.510 --> 02:08:24.720 your university. 02:08:24.720 --> 02:08:26.720 I had a couple supporting pieces here. 02:08:26.720 --> 02:08:30.449 This is stuff that you guys know as far as the universities 02:08:30.449 --> 02:08:33.970 and the demand that you have both here and even on the TWU 02:08:33.970 --> 02:08:34.720 side. 02:08:34.720 --> 02:08:38.489 And then to the project we're proposing, I think really 02:08:38.489 --> 02:08:41.720 fits into the cultural theme within Denton. 02:08:41.720 --> 02:08:46.489 It's bold, unique, artistic design and this fits what 02:08:46.489 --> 02:08:49.720 people are trying to move here for. 02:08:49.720 --> 02:08:53.100 And then lastly, I think with the encroachment around the 02:08:53.100 --> 02:08:56.720 surrounding areas with small kind of boutique apartments, 02:08:56.720 --> 02:08:58.720 this fits that mold really well. 02:08:58.720 --> 02:09:02.720 So, from our view, the area can support it. 02:09:02.720 --> 02:09:06.720 It still fits in even though it's a variance in that area. 02:09:06.720 --> 02:09:09.720 It still fits in with the general area and the theme. 02:09:09.720 --> 02:09:12.579 As you go from street to street, you can't obviously tell, 02:09:12.579 --> 02:09:16.010 hey, this is obviously residential and this is obviously 02:09:16.010 --> 02:09:17.720 commercial because you make a right. 02:09:17.720 --> 02:09:19.720 It's all apartments. You make a left. It's all apartments. 02:09:19.720 --> 02:09:21.720 You go down here, it's a bunch of duplexes. 02:09:21.720 --> 02:09:26.720 So, the field still looks the same from our perspective. 02:09:26.720 --> 02:09:28.720 So, really, that's all I have. 02:09:28.720 --> 02:09:35.020 I don't know if you have anything else. Questions? Is that 02:09:35.020 --> 02:09:36.720 the process? 02:09:36.720 --> 02:09:39.020 Yes, there is a process and I've got a full board of 02:09:39.020 --> 02:09:39.720 questions. 02:09:39.720 --> 02:09:40.720 So, beg your patience. 02:09:40.720 --> 02:09:41.720 No worries. 02:09:41.720 --> 02:09:43.720 Commissioner Rossell. Thank you, Sheriff. 02:09:43.720 --> 02:09:45.319 Thank you for your presentation and some context to what's 02:09:45.319 --> 02:09:45.720 going on. 02:09:45.720 --> 02:09:48.800 I have a couple of questions about the two properties 02:09:48.800 --> 02:09:49.720 themselves. 02:09:49.720 --> 02:09:51.720 They're separate platted right now. 02:09:51.720 --> 02:09:53.720 Are you looking to replat after rezoning? 02:09:53.720 --> 02:09:55.720 That would be the goal. 02:09:55.720 --> 02:09:59.960 Ultimately, whatever's amiable to the committee and what 02:09:59.960 --> 02:10:01.720 makes the most sense. 02:10:01.720 --> 02:10:05.720 Sure. What is the total acreage of those two lots? 02:10:05.720 --> 02:10:08.720 I think it's roughly just under half acre-ish. 02:10:08.720 --> 02:10:10.720 Okay. And then you might have pictures of this. 02:10:10.720 --> 02:10:14.229 I'd be interested to see if you do, but what do you think 02:10:14.229 --> 02:10:17.720 would likely be built on .4 acres? 02:10:17.720 --> 02:10:18.720 Do you have like, are we talking about? 02:10:18.720 --> 02:10:21.170 I didn't put, I can give you a perspective of just kind of 02:10:21.170 --> 02:10:23.720 what the, it's not our design, 02:10:23.720 --> 02:10:28.260 but I can give you a couple, like this is probably not the 02:10:28.260 --> 02:10:29.720 best example. 02:10:29.720 --> 02:10:33.449 So, when you look at something like this, you're looking at 02:10:33.449 --> 02:10:36.720 something like this, maybe twice this size right here, 02:10:36.720 --> 02:10:40.720 that's supporting that area. I think the guidelines that we 02:10:40.720 --> 02:10:40.720 have in the city, 02:10:40.720 --> 02:10:44.720 I think it was a one and a quarter parking spots per room. 02:10:44.720 --> 02:10:49.600 So, from our view, you're looking at anywhere from 12 to 02:10:49.600 --> 02:10:53.720 maybe 14 to 20 units out there, 02:10:53.720 --> 02:10:56.090 and they can still support parking while maintaining the 02:10:56.090 --> 02:10:56.720 green area. 02:10:56.720 --> 02:10:57.720 That's the other part too. 02:10:57.720 --> 02:11:01.489 We do have, as I showed there, a lot of green area that we 02:11:01.489 --> 02:11:02.720 want to maintain. 02:11:02.720 --> 02:11:05.859 So, we don't want to just clear cut this just for the sake 02:11:05.859 --> 02:11:08.210 of being able to support the parking structures and 02:11:08.210 --> 02:11:09.720 everything else as well. 02:11:09.720 --> 02:11:12.380 So, I guess my answer would be kind of, well, it depends on 02:11:12.380 --> 02:11:13.720 what makes sense with the committee. 02:11:13.720 --> 02:11:15.720 Thank you. 02:11:15.720 --> 02:11:17.720 I've got a question that I'll recognize. 02:11:17.720 --> 02:11:19.720 Can you tell us why you want to rezone it? 02:11:19.720 --> 02:11:24.720 Because in DR1 and DR2, both have got multifamily allowed. 02:11:24.720 --> 02:11:30.720 The height is 45 feet in DR2 and 40 feet in DR1. 02:11:30.720 --> 02:11:34.449 And the only other difference that I see is a slight 02:11:34.449 --> 02:11:36.720 difference in lot coverage. 02:11:36.720 --> 02:11:40.859 So, can you give us the rationale of why we need to do the 02:11:40.859 --> 02:11:41.720 rezone? 02:11:41.720 --> 02:11:44.720 And I could be wrong in my understanding here. 02:11:44.720 --> 02:11:50.680 My understanding was that DR1, you could only do duplexes, 02:11:50.680 --> 02:11:52.720 not multifamily. 02:11:52.720 --> 02:11:58.720 I'll call on staff to address that question. 02:11:58.720 --> 02:11:59.720 You're correct. 02:11:59.720 --> 02:12:00.720 Yes. 02:12:00.720 --> 02:12:03.720 I was looking at L5, and you're correct. 02:12:03.720 --> 02:12:04.720 My apologies. 02:12:04.720 --> 02:12:05.720 I missed that detail. 02:12:05.720 --> 02:12:06.720 I'm looking at the chart. 02:12:06.720 --> 02:12:09.720 I was looking at the box. 02:12:09.720 --> 02:12:10.720 Glad you're prepared. 02:12:10.720 --> 02:12:11.720 Well done. 02:12:11.720 --> 02:12:15.720 Commissioner Hussbuth. 02:12:15.720 --> 02:12:18.680 I'll tell you, I think you're a little ahead of the power 02:12:18.680 --> 02:12:19.720 curve, right? 02:12:19.720 --> 02:12:23.720 So, I want you to help me understand where I'm off. 02:12:23.720 --> 02:12:28.520 Because if I look at that, if you go back to your map, here 02:12:28.520 --> 02:12:30.720 's what we can agree on. 02:12:30.720 --> 02:12:32.720 We can agree it's coming. 02:12:32.720 --> 02:12:33.720 Yes, sir. 02:12:33.720 --> 02:12:35.720 We can agree all that's going to transition. 02:12:35.720 --> 02:12:37.720 I just think you're early. 02:12:37.720 --> 02:12:45.869 And so, my palette right now is phase one duplex, phase two 02:12:45.869 --> 02:12:50.720 , once everything else transitions to multifamily, 02:12:50.720 --> 02:12:54.720 then I'm more at peace with it. 02:12:54.720 --> 02:12:57.720 But I do want to give you an opportunity. 02:12:57.720 --> 02:13:00.270 I mean, I want to hear from you and get kind of your feel 02:13:00.270 --> 02:13:02.720 from that understanding that's my concern. 02:13:02.720 --> 02:13:05.720 And then I'll tell you, this is just me. 02:13:05.720 --> 02:13:09.699 I'm burnt out on everyone telling me about UNT, how close 02:13:09.699 --> 02:13:11.720 it is to UNT, how walkable it is UNT. 02:13:11.720 --> 02:13:13.720 Understand all that matters. 02:13:13.720 --> 02:13:17.130 But it's just everyone to me, buzzwords, right, to make it 02:13:17.130 --> 02:13:17.720 okay. 02:13:17.720 --> 02:13:22.109 I want to know from Mickey, just hey, this makes sense 02:13:22.109 --> 02:13:25.720 because, right, I mean, just from the heart. 02:13:25.720 --> 02:13:27.720 Just let me have it. 02:13:27.720 --> 02:13:30.920 I'm going to have a couple things and one that is first 02:13:30.920 --> 02:13:33.720 going to address the kind of phasing it in. 02:13:33.720 --> 02:13:37.670 The way I see it and with projects of this nature is you go 02:13:37.670 --> 02:13:40.720 the route of doing a DR1, you build the duplex here, 02:13:40.720 --> 02:13:43.079 and you look at some of the ones on the edges who have done 02:13:43.079 --> 02:13:43.720 duplexes. 02:13:43.720 --> 02:13:46.720 The reality is those are there for the next 30 years. 02:13:46.720 --> 02:13:48.720 These aren't changing, maybe 40 years. 02:13:48.720 --> 02:13:51.770 So this isn't really a hey, we're going to phase it in now 02:13:51.770 --> 02:13:55.279 and then later when we really like to get some of the 02:13:55.279 --> 02:13:55.720 multifamily, 02:13:55.720 --> 02:13:56.720 it will come later. 02:13:56.720 --> 02:13:57.720 It will. 02:13:57.720 --> 02:14:01.850 I think if you do something, you stage it different and go 02:14:01.850 --> 02:14:05.800 to this approach first, well, then later is 25, 30 years 02:14:05.800 --> 02:14:06.720 from now. 02:14:06.720 --> 02:14:09.420 And then you kind of end up in a situation where, man, 02:14:09.420 --> 02:14:11.720 these are all single-family or duplexes. 02:14:11.720 --> 02:14:13.720 We could have done an apartment here. 02:14:13.720 --> 02:14:16.020 And I'll give you a good example, and it is another 02:14:16.020 --> 02:14:16.720 university. 02:14:16.720 --> 02:14:19.869 As you look over in areas closer to TWU and the surrounding 02:14:19.869 --> 02:14:23.720 areas there, what was done there is everything was done DR2 02:14:23.720 --> 02:14:24.720 around all the areas. 02:14:24.720 --> 02:14:28.449 You still see kind of a mix and this homogenous mix of 02:14:28.449 --> 02:14:30.720 homes and some apartments. 02:14:30.720 --> 02:14:36.079 But the consistency there is all DR2, whereas this is DR1 02:14:36.079 --> 02:14:38.720 and it's kind of segmented. 02:14:38.720 --> 02:14:41.939 And in those cases, what you saw with the new builds, they 02:14:41.939 --> 02:14:43.720 were typically apartments. 02:14:43.720 --> 02:14:45.720 You don't have a lot of the duplexes. 02:14:45.720 --> 02:14:48.550 And I know one of you had a concern earlier on home values 02:14:48.550 --> 02:14:49.720 and values in areas. 02:14:49.720 --> 02:14:52.800 Duplexes generally bring down values from a real estate 02:14:52.800 --> 02:14:53.720 standpoint. 02:14:53.720 --> 02:14:57.590 Apartments, single-family homes have a stronger value than 02:14:57.590 --> 02:15:00.720 do typically duplexes or quadplexes in an area. 02:15:00.720 --> 02:15:03.859 So that's kind of thinking of the forward-looking where I 02:15:03.859 --> 02:15:06.430 would say is, you know, honestly, the commercial route 02:15:06.430 --> 02:15:07.720 might be a better route, 02:15:07.720 --> 02:15:11.680 but I think it would be a harder stretch to put that there 02:15:11.680 --> 02:15:14.720 unless I was on that southwest corner. 02:15:14.720 --> 02:15:17.250 But, you know, to your area, as far as why, I think that 02:15:17.250 --> 02:15:20.229 what drove us on this project was we were looking at things 02:15:20.229 --> 02:15:21.720 that were different. 02:15:21.720 --> 02:15:24.720 We first started looking at some of the college areas. 02:15:24.720 --> 02:15:26.720 That's just the way it is up here. 02:15:26.720 --> 02:15:28.590 But we looked at some of the things that you could do that 02:15:28.590 --> 02:15:29.720 were more modular concept. 02:15:29.720 --> 02:15:32.229 And at Texas A&M, they had some of these neat modular 02:15:32.229 --> 02:15:33.720 concepts where you do stuff. 02:15:33.720 --> 02:15:35.909 And then we looked at some of the trends and designs, the 02:15:35.909 --> 02:15:38.810 nice thing about this particular design, it is a green 02:15:38.810 --> 02:15:39.720 build. 02:15:39.720 --> 02:15:40.720 You use a lot of recycled products. 02:15:40.720 --> 02:15:41.720 It is trendy. 02:15:41.720 --> 02:15:42.720 It's efficient. 02:15:42.720 --> 02:15:43.720 They're sturdy. 02:15:43.720 --> 02:15:44.720 They last a long time. 02:15:44.720 --> 02:15:46.720 So there's a lot of good qualities with what we're doing. 02:15:46.720 --> 02:15:49.310 Having said that, we're not dead set that, yes, we have to 02:15:49.310 --> 02:15:51.979 do this if there's pushback, I guess, on the next phase of 02:15:51.979 --> 02:15:52.720 the project. 02:15:52.720 --> 02:15:55.720 So we're open to those discussions. 02:15:55.720 --> 02:15:57.720 I think it's just first steps first. 02:15:57.720 --> 02:15:59.720 But that was kind of our thought here. 02:15:59.720 --> 02:16:02.949 We actually have another property that probably had this 02:16:02.949 --> 02:16:04.720 similar discussion later. 02:16:04.720 --> 02:16:07.720 It's on a DR2 lot already. 02:16:07.720 --> 02:16:09.720 But it's closer to the downtown. 02:16:09.720 --> 02:16:12.779 And so for that, it's less about the college, but it really 02:16:12.779 --> 02:16:15.720 is about that downtown, young professional life. 02:16:15.720 --> 02:16:16.720 If I may. 02:16:16.720 --> 02:16:17.720 Continue. 02:16:17.720 --> 02:16:18.720 One follow-up. 02:16:18.720 --> 02:16:24.359 But regardless, whatever parking requirements, you don't 02:16:24.359 --> 02:16:28.720 anticipate any need for variances with respect to parking. 02:16:28.720 --> 02:16:32.809 The number of slots, the material needed, you don't 02:16:32.809 --> 02:16:34.719 envision any issues? 02:16:34.719 --> 02:16:35.719 No. 02:16:35.719 --> 02:16:37.729 I think the only variances are discussions that are 02:16:37.729 --> 02:16:38.719 realistic to come up. 02:16:38.719 --> 02:16:41.600 And I know we've talked about this a little bit, is the 02:16:41.600 --> 02:16:44.819 shipping container design that we'd like to go forward with 02:16:44.819 --> 02:16:46.719 is something that's atypical. 02:16:46.719 --> 02:16:49.340 And so what we'd have to do is probably make sure that the 02:16:49.340 --> 02:16:52.239 engineers and the people are comfortable with what's being 02:16:52.239 --> 02:16:55.719 done for installation, whether it be panels here, 02:16:55.719 --> 02:16:58.770 conforming to the build guidelines or having appropriate 02:16:58.770 --> 02:16:59.719 alternatives. 02:16:59.719 --> 02:17:03.110 So no, I mean, not to that phase yet, just on the zoning 02:17:03.110 --> 02:17:03.719 side. 02:17:03.719 --> 02:17:07.260 I just wanted to make sure kind of in advance that I don't 02:17:07.260 --> 02:17:11.079 see anything inside that whatever we decide or whatever is 02:17:11.079 --> 02:17:13.719 decided that I kind of get that out. 02:17:13.719 --> 02:17:14.719 I was just curious about that. 02:17:14.719 --> 02:17:16.719 Yeah, I think we're we're tracking on that. 02:17:16.719 --> 02:17:17.719 Thank you. 02:17:17.719 --> 02:17:19.719 We have an architect draw up the plans. 02:17:19.719 --> 02:17:20.719 The site. 02:17:20.719 --> 02:17:22.719 So that was just a minute. 02:17:22.719 --> 02:17:23.719 Sorry. 02:17:23.719 --> 02:17:24.719 We do one at a time. 02:17:24.719 --> 02:17:29.719 Sorry. I don't have anything to say. 02:17:29.719 --> 02:17:30.719 Okay. 02:17:30.719 --> 02:17:32.719 Okay. 02:17:32.719 --> 02:17:36.129 If you could just take a seat back there, then we can just 02:17:36.129 --> 02:17:36.719 have one. 02:17:36.719 --> 02:17:37.719 Okay. 02:17:37.719 --> 02:17:40.719 Sorry. 02:17:40.719 --> 02:17:42.719 Commissioner Beck. 02:17:42.719 --> 02:17:43.719 Thank you, Chair. 02:17:43.719 --> 02:17:44.719 Mr. Kravis, right? 02:17:44.719 --> 02:17:45.719 No, Mickey Patterson. 02:17:45.719 --> 02:17:46.719 Patterson. 02:17:46.719 --> 02:17:47.719 Sorry. 02:17:47.719 --> 02:17:48.719 Excuse me. 02:17:48.719 --> 02:17:50.719 Appreciate your presentation. 02:17:50.719 --> 02:17:53.850 Appreciate the fact that you've got some avant-garde views 02:17:53.850 --> 02:17:54.719 here on this. 02:17:54.719 --> 02:17:58.450 Could I get you to put your picture back up where it said 02:17:58.450 --> 02:17:59.719 the cube showing us? 02:17:59.719 --> 02:18:00.719 The very beginning? 02:18:00.719 --> 02:18:02.719 Yeah. 02:18:02.719 --> 02:18:05.719 Yeah, right there. 02:18:05.719 --> 02:18:09.719 That is unique. 02:18:09.719 --> 02:18:14.729 And I was kind of wavering, to be honest with you, between 02:18:14.729 --> 02:18:19.799 going along with denial with staff on this and considering 02:18:19.799 --> 02:18:23.719 a move, a slight bump might not be so bad. 02:18:23.719 --> 02:18:25.319 I'm pretty sure I'm going to have a hard time with this 02:18:25.319 --> 02:18:25.719 design. 02:18:25.719 --> 02:18:28.870 I think the people who live in that area, those older folks 02:18:28.870 --> 02:18:31.719 , too, you know, are going to have a hard time. 02:18:31.719 --> 02:18:35.719 This is going to stick out like a like a sore thumb. 02:18:35.719 --> 02:18:37.719 This isn't going to fit in that area at all. 02:18:37.719 --> 02:18:41.239 Usually we want to bring something into an area, something 02:18:41.239 --> 02:18:41.719 new. 02:18:41.719 --> 02:18:45.719 It needs to fit in better than I think this is going to. 02:18:45.719 --> 02:18:47.719 And I don't mean to be over critical. 02:18:47.719 --> 02:18:49.719 I think this would be great in other places. 02:18:49.719 --> 02:18:50.719 And I think you're right. 02:18:50.719 --> 02:18:52.719 This would appeal to the college student. 02:18:52.719 --> 02:18:55.829 But you're going to put this in an area where you've got 70 02:18:55.829 --> 02:18:58.840 and 80 year old homes and some of the residents are that 02:18:58.840 --> 02:18:59.719 old, too. 02:18:59.719 --> 02:19:03.719 And this is not going to transition well. 02:19:03.719 --> 02:19:08.219 So if you have an alternate plan outside of storage 02:19:08.219 --> 02:19:11.719 containers, I'd be glad to hear it. 02:19:11.719 --> 02:19:14.909 Okay. And that's why I guess my question would be so from 02:19:14.909 --> 02:19:17.889 your perspective, you would be on your your view would be 02:19:17.889 --> 02:19:21.719 more on board if it was a traditional stick masonry build. 02:19:21.719 --> 02:19:23.719 I would be more have to be on board. Yes. 02:19:23.719 --> 02:19:27.219 At this point, looking at that, I'm probably going to deny 02:19:27.219 --> 02:19:27.719 this. 02:19:27.719 --> 02:19:31.719 I mean, so the reality is this is this is our preference. 02:19:31.719 --> 02:19:34.719 It's not our dead set. 02:19:34.719 --> 02:19:38.590 We own the property and we're in this to have an investment 02:19:38.590 --> 02:19:42.370 that can make make some money, have an offering and it fits 02:19:42.370 --> 02:19:43.719 in my perspective. 02:19:43.719 --> 02:19:45.719 I would disagree with you on how this fits in. 02:19:45.719 --> 02:19:50.719 That's that's just the way to disagree. 02:19:50.719 --> 02:19:54.090 But having said that, if that was the general view for pass 02:19:54.090 --> 02:19:57.329 or or not, ultimately, I still think it's better moving to 02:19:57.329 --> 02:19:58.719 a D.R. 02:19:58.719 --> 02:20:02.450 two with being a frame masonry traditional build than 02:20:02.450 --> 02:20:03.719 staying D.R. 02:20:03.719 --> 02:20:05.719 one and going with the duplex. 02:20:05.719 --> 02:20:08.340 So it's regardless of whether it's this or another one, I 02:20:08.340 --> 02:20:11.719 think the view is it's still better to go to the D.R. 02:20:11.719 --> 02:20:12.719 two. Okay. 02:20:12.719 --> 02:20:15.719 Commissioner O'Zell. Thank you, Chair. 02:20:15.719 --> 02:20:16.719 Commissioner Beck, I disagree with you. 02:20:16.719 --> 02:20:18.719 I think that would be pretty cool. 02:20:18.719 --> 02:20:21.930 And it's kind of unfortunate that sometimes our 02:20:21.930 --> 02:20:24.719 requirements make it a cookie cutter. 02:20:24.719 --> 02:20:27.459 We have to have so much masonry and so much brick and 02:20:27.459 --> 02:20:29.719 everything is kind of looks the same. 02:20:29.719 --> 02:20:33.719 So, I mean, I think I think that could work. 02:20:33.719 --> 02:20:35.719 But more importantly, that's not for discussion tonight. 02:20:35.719 --> 02:20:37.719 He can build whatever he wants there. 02:20:37.719 --> 02:20:38.719 Once the D.R. two is made. 02:20:38.719 --> 02:20:41.719 So the however those get a little crazy. 02:20:41.719 --> 02:20:46.719 But how thank you. 02:20:46.719 --> 02:20:48.719 This will help better. 02:20:48.719 --> 02:20:50.719 Help me prove your point. 02:20:50.719 --> 02:20:54.950 I think the issue is is is a zoning request if we feel that 02:20:54.950 --> 02:20:59.399 these two properties would be compatible to move into a 02:20:59.399 --> 02:21:00.719 multifamily concept. 02:21:00.719 --> 02:21:03.549 It's one of those times where sometimes the project itself 02:21:03.549 --> 02:21:05.719 might filter into that decision or not. 02:21:05.719 --> 02:21:07.719 But we're not deciding on design tonight. 02:21:07.719 --> 02:21:11.780 So although this is helpful and kind of interesting to see 02:21:11.780 --> 02:21:15.290 your thoughts on the property tonight, it's just a matter 02:21:15.290 --> 02:21:15.719 of if D.R. 02:21:15.719 --> 02:21:21.389 two is appropriate or not. So I just want to make sure that 02:21:21.389 --> 02:21:23.129 we weren't being skewed in our decision based on the avant 02:21:23.129 --> 02:21:26.719 garde, as you put it, design of this project. 02:21:26.719 --> 02:21:29.719 I'll look that word up later. 02:21:29.719 --> 02:21:31.719 Commissioner Beck. 02:21:31.719 --> 02:21:33.719 Thank you for your comments. 02:21:33.719 --> 02:21:36.719 And again, I'm not opposed to it either. 02:21:36.719 --> 02:21:39.719 I think it's it's it's interesting. 02:21:39.719 --> 02:21:40.719 And living there wouldn't be a problem. 02:21:40.719 --> 02:21:44.450 It's just that if you take something like that and stick it 02:21:44.450 --> 02:21:48.049 in those two lots there with the existing housing that's 02:21:48.049 --> 02:21:50.719 there, it's going to raise some eyebrows. 02:21:50.719 --> 02:21:51.719 It's going to it's going to be offensive. 02:21:51.719 --> 02:21:55.719 Some people it's just not going to fit in well. 02:21:55.719 --> 02:21:59.719 Again, I understand we're looking at going from a D.R. 02:21:59.719 --> 02:22:00.719 one to D.R. two. 02:22:00.719 --> 02:22:04.799 And I was considering weighing in favor of maybe moving up 02:22:04.799 --> 02:22:05.719 to D.R. 02:22:05.719 --> 02:22:09.790 two, but I just just as a safety measure now, I'm almost 02:22:09.790 --> 02:22:14.059 reluctant to do that if the possibility of something like 02:22:14.059 --> 02:22:15.719 that goes in there. 02:22:15.719 --> 02:22:17.719 So that's just me, though. 02:22:17.719 --> 02:22:19.719 I don't know how everybody else is thinking here. 02:22:19.719 --> 02:22:21.719 I may be the only one that's thinking like that. 02:22:21.719 --> 02:22:25.719 It's just that if you're going to request a D.R. 02:22:25.719 --> 02:22:28.940 two, it seems to me that you would want to fit in a little 02:22:28.940 --> 02:22:32.440 bit more unnoticeably and whether it's cookie cutter or not 02:22:32.440 --> 02:22:34.719 , it doesn't have to be cookie cutter. 02:22:34.719 --> 02:22:37.719 It just storage containers just seem. 02:22:37.719 --> 02:22:42.430 And I guess where I would ask on that is and to go back to 02:22:42.430 --> 02:22:47.049 Commissioner Rosell's comment is in that case, I would say 02:22:47.049 --> 02:22:48.719 that you would still elect to approve the D.R. 02:22:48.719 --> 02:22:51.989 two and tackle that discussion when it came approving the 02:22:51.989 --> 02:22:52.719 project. 02:22:52.719 --> 02:22:55.659 And that's what I would respectfully request is that if you 02:22:55.659 --> 02:22:56.719 're on board for D.R. 02:22:56.719 --> 02:22:58.719 two, then D.R. 02:22:58.719 --> 02:22:59.719 two would be the way to go. 02:22:59.719 --> 02:23:02.770 And then we can tackle that because we still have to come 02:23:02.770 --> 02:23:05.899 up to a building engineering and there would be some pieces 02:23:05.899 --> 02:23:08.719 of variances because there are requirements. 02:23:08.719 --> 02:23:12.590 So those concerns, I would say, would be fairly brought up 02:23:12.590 --> 02:23:16.719 there and and and still push for the approval for the D.R. 02:23:16.719 --> 02:23:17.719 two. 02:23:17.719 --> 02:23:20.790 Well, I'll hold my thought on it for now until we get out 02:23:20.790 --> 02:23:21.719 to the vote. 02:23:21.719 --> 02:23:22.719 Fair enough. 02:23:22.719 --> 02:23:24.719 I've got no other people on the board for questions. 02:23:24.719 --> 02:23:25.719 Thank you. 02:23:25.719 --> 02:23:27.719 OK, thank you. 02:23:27.719 --> 02:23:29.719 And would you like to speak? 02:23:29.719 --> 02:23:31.719 It's public hearing. 02:23:31.719 --> 02:23:34.719 We're inviting you. 02:23:34.719 --> 02:23:37.280 Please come up to the mic, give us your name and address 02:23:37.280 --> 02:23:38.719 and give us your comments. 02:23:38.719 --> 02:23:44.399 Sherry Patterson, 8805 Random Road, Fort Worth, Texas, 7617 02:23:44.399 --> 02:23:44.719 9. 02:23:44.719 --> 02:23:48.200 So I just wanted to address yours with the you know, we did 02:23:48.200 --> 02:23:51.979 have a architect that has drawn everything up and so pl 02:23:51.979 --> 02:23:55.239 atted it and the measurements are the good thing about these 02:23:55.239 --> 02:23:55.719 things. 02:23:55.719 --> 02:23:58.590 They're very large, so they don't take up a lot of space 02:23:58.590 --> 02:24:00.719 and so that because it is a small lot. 02:24:00.719 --> 02:24:05.469 So we have accounted for the green space, all the parking, 02:24:05.469 --> 02:24:09.829 even, you know, park like areas for the tenants and so 02:24:09.829 --> 02:24:10.719 forth. 02:24:10.719 --> 02:24:14.450 So we have done all that and done all the measurements and 02:24:14.450 --> 02:24:17.319 made sure of what will fit on there was still the 02:24:17.319 --> 02:24:23.719 guidelines of how far you can be from the whole the street 02:24:23.719 --> 02:24:24.719 and so forth. 02:24:24.719 --> 02:24:27.780 So that's all I want to say, because I don't feel like he 02:24:27.780 --> 02:24:30.739 answered that well and say that we actually have been 02:24:30.739 --> 02:24:34.129 working with architects and everything that we have models 02:24:34.129 --> 02:24:37.120 and the whole thing to see how it's going to fit on the lot 02:24:37.120 --> 02:24:37.719 . 02:24:37.719 --> 02:24:40.719 Right. Thank you. Thank you. 02:24:40.719 --> 02:24:53.610 I've got a question for staff while we're still open to 02:24:53.610 --> 02:24:56.459 public. Can we get Google Earth up and pull up that DCG 02:24:56.459 --> 02:24:57.399 property that's there on the corner and see what's there 02:24:57.399 --> 02:24:57.719 for Street View. 02:24:57.719 --> 02:25:17.719 Oh, of course. 02:25:17.719 --> 02:25:25.719 Right here. Yeah, right there. 02:25:25.719 --> 02:25:28.719 That's what's there existing now correct. Yes, sir. 02:25:28.719 --> 02:25:29.719 Okay. 02:25:29.719 --> 02:25:33.709 I think that's helpful for us to get a perspective of what 02:25:33.709 --> 02:25:36.719 's already there in the neighborhood. 02:25:36.719 --> 02:25:39.659 It's not a whole lot different height wise and what's being 02:25:39.659 --> 02:25:44.010 brought here before us this evening. I know this area is in 02:25:44.010 --> 02:25:50.260 transition and there's a multitude of different style homes 02:25:50.260 --> 02:25:54.719 duplexes and so forth but that's less than half a lot away. 02:25:54.719 --> 02:25:57.159 That's the property I brought up about being DCG on the 02:25:57.159 --> 02:26:00.719 corner. So thank you for doing that. 02:26:00.719 --> 02:26:04.090 And this is a public hearing is there anyone else that 02:26:04.090 --> 02:26:07.590 would like to come forward and speak on this item for us 02:26:07.590 --> 02:26:08.719 this evening. 02:26:08.719 --> 02:26:10.719 Great. 02:26:10.719 --> 02:26:14.719 Please come forward and leave the car there. 02:26:14.719 --> 02:26:17.659 Please give us your name and address, and you'll have four 02:26:17.659 --> 02:26:18.719 minutes to speak. 02:26:18.719 --> 02:26:26.030 I'm Dave Sutcliffe. My address is 1219 Avenue a Den right 02:26:26.030 --> 02:26:27.719 around the corner from. 02:26:27.719 --> 02:26:30.340 Can I ask you a question. Yes, you didn't mark your car to 02:26:30.340 --> 02:26:33.200 support or opposition. Will you let us know how you can let 02:26:33.200 --> 02:26:36.719 us know. I'll mark it for you. 02:26:36.719 --> 02:26:39.770 I do not support it. Okay, you're in opposition opposition. 02:26:39.770 --> 02:26:41.719 Okay, thank you. 02:26:41.719 --> 02:26:47.209 I just wanted to I probably don't stand a chance here 02:26:47.209 --> 02:26:48.719 whatsoever. He's going to do what he's going to do. 02:26:48.719 --> 02:26:52.180 I just want to give you some my wife and I moved from Saint 02:26:52.180 --> 02:26:53.719 Louis 7 years ago. 02:26:53.719 --> 02:26:58.670 We both have family in Texas and we fell in love with then 02:26:58.670 --> 02:26:59.719 moved to a place. 02:26:59.719 --> 02:27:05.719 It was a 1313 Underwood, which was Avenue a and Underwood. 02:27:05.719 --> 02:27:12.629 We were moved out of there. Our house was moved. The other 02:27:12.629 --> 02:27:13.719 ones were destroyed on our block. 02:27:13.719 --> 02:27:16.770 We live right across the street from where we used to live, 02:27:16.770 --> 02:27:18.719 where they took our house. 02:27:18.719 --> 02:27:23.059 And we were lucky we found that place or our daughter can 02:27:23.059 --> 02:27:26.719 go to the same school as her buddies. 02:27:26.719 --> 02:27:30.719 And that we had an easy time moving into a nice house, 02:27:30.719 --> 02:27:31.719 another nice house. 02:27:31.719 --> 02:27:35.209 But we're right across the street from a huge complex that 02:27:35.209 --> 02:27:36.719 's being built on Avenue a. 02:27:36.719 --> 02:27:42.209 And this thing right here is on the on the corner of our 02:27:42.209 --> 02:27:45.719 block that we've we've learned to deal with it. 02:27:45.719 --> 02:27:50.270 But this thing right behind us is going to is going to be 02:27:50.270 --> 02:27:54.719 overlooking our backyard inside of our windows. 02:27:54.719 --> 02:27:59.319 There's a big giant tree that holds a lot of wildlife and 02:27:59.319 --> 02:28:04.719 he says he no not going to remove the tree for parking or 02:28:04.719 --> 02:28:06.719 whatever. 02:28:06.719 --> 02:28:12.510 I. That's that's most likely going to go to and that's 02:28:12.510 --> 02:28:14.719 going to that's just going to. 02:28:14.719 --> 02:28:18.719 Our privacy is just going to be absolutely gone. 02:28:18.719 --> 02:28:25.719 And we're going to be able to just go back to the building 02:28:25.719 --> 02:28:26.719 and replace that. 02:28:26.719 --> 02:28:31.180 The trees like now the apartment complex is there. It's 02:28:31.180 --> 02:28:33.719 just totally invasive. 02:28:33.719 --> 02:28:36.719 We were out in our backyard all the time. 02:28:36.719 --> 02:28:40.590 Got the sprinkler out there in the pool. And that's just 02:28:40.590 --> 02:28:43.719 not going to happen with a. 02:28:43.719 --> 02:28:54.340 The 02:28:54.340 --> 02:28:56.719 Well over a year with with all the construct. 02:28:56.719 --> 02:29:00.170 We we don't even know what it's going to be like when the 02:29:00.170 --> 02:29:04.719 people start moving in and parking lot, the doors slamming, 02:29:04.719 --> 02:29:06.719 the noise, the music. 02:29:06.719 --> 02:29:12.000 And it's you can tell me it's a family friendly place, but 02:29:12.000 --> 02:29:17.170 we know darn well that students are going to move in there 02:29:17.170 --> 02:29:20.719 as they have in this place on the corner. 02:29:20.719 --> 02:29:25.719 And and behind us, I'm it's says right there on your other 02:29:25.719 --> 02:29:30.719 slide ideal for students and even says it right there. 02:29:30.719 --> 02:29:39.719 It's not escaping us that students will be there. 02:29:39.719 --> 02:29:41.719 Students are loud. 02:29:41.719 --> 02:29:44.420 We were I'm just telling you my story because this is 02:29:44.420 --> 02:29:45.719 getting out of hand. 02:29:45.719 --> 02:29:51.209 We're something like that does happen where we've got to go 02:29:51.209 --> 02:29:55.889 again somewhere where we could have some sort of resemb 02:29:55.889 --> 02:29:58.719 lance of a family life. 02:29:58.719 --> 02:30:04.510 And in that neighborhood, there is families around us on 02:30:04.510 --> 02:30:07.719 both sides of us in back of us. 02:30:07.719 --> 02:30:12.719 That's just out of place that that would be just he says it 02:30:12.719 --> 02:30:14.719 would fit right in. 02:30:14.719 --> 02:30:17.719 Sorry, I don't know your name. 02:30:17.719 --> 02:30:21.719 But it would just just does not go. 02:30:21.719 --> 02:30:29.200 Will not go no matter what. I mean, what angle you use to 02:30:29.200 --> 02:30:29.719 try to get that in there. 02:30:29.719 --> 02:30:33.719 It's just it just doesn't. 02:30:33.719 --> 02:30:36.409 That's my personal story. I can't speak for anybody else 02:30:36.409 --> 02:30:39.719 because, you know, nobody else bothered to show up. 02:30:39.719 --> 02:30:42.719 But that is our story. 02:30:42.719 --> 02:30:44.719 My time is your time. 02:30:44.719 --> 02:30:45.719 I appreciate your comments. 02:30:45.719 --> 02:30:48.360 All right, go. We have a question for you, Commissioner 02:30:48.360 --> 02:30:48.719 Beck. 02:30:48.719 --> 02:30:49.719 Thank you, Chair. I'm sorry. 02:30:49.719 --> 02:30:52.719 What was your last name again? Sutcliffe Sutcliffe. 02:30:52.719 --> 02:30:55.139 Thank you, Mr. Sutcliffe, for taking the time to come down 02:30:55.139 --> 02:30:55.719 and speak. 02:30:55.719 --> 02:31:00.649 If I could get hang on there, Julie, if you could come back 02:31:00.649 --> 02:31:04.399 up and put the proposed zoning map on the on display for me 02:31:04.399 --> 02:31:04.719 . 02:31:04.719 --> 02:31:09.719 I want to ask Mr. Sutcliffe question. 02:31:09.719 --> 02:31:12.719 Yeah, that one. 02:31:12.719 --> 02:31:14.719 That better. 02:31:14.719 --> 02:31:15.719 Yeah. 02:31:15.719 --> 02:31:21.090 Well, OK. Where's your can you take the cursor and point to 02:31:21.090 --> 02:31:30.719 your house, Mr. Sutcliffe? 02:31:30.719 --> 02:31:32.719 OK. 02:31:32.719 --> 02:31:33.719 Next one. 02:31:33.719 --> 02:31:36.020 OK, so you're not right up against the apartments that are 02:31:36.020 --> 02:31:36.719 on the corner. 02:31:36.719 --> 02:31:38.719 Is that correct? 02:31:38.719 --> 02:31:41.719 You're one lot down from where the apartments are. 02:31:41.719 --> 02:31:45.719 Well, it's not directly behind us. OK, OK. 02:31:45.719 --> 02:31:46.719 Let me ask you this. 02:31:46.719 --> 02:31:51.270 And my question is, the lots that are still in DR one to 02:31:51.270 --> 02:31:54.700 your knowledge, are those single family residential or 02:31:54.700 --> 02:31:56.719 those just families living in there? 02:31:56.719 --> 02:32:01.719 They've been converted to student housing. 02:32:01.719 --> 02:32:05.719 All the houses, proper houses are family houses. 02:32:05.719 --> 02:32:06.719 They have family. 02:32:06.719 --> 02:32:08.719 They haven't been converted to. 02:32:08.719 --> 02:32:13.409 No, no, it's the new buildings that are like better 02:32:13.409 --> 02:32:15.719 students, singles. 02:32:15.719 --> 02:32:20.719 OK, thank you, sir. 02:32:20.719 --> 02:32:23.719 Any other questions? 02:32:23.719 --> 02:32:24.719 Thank you, sir, for bringing your comments. 02:32:24.719 --> 02:32:25.719 This is a public hearing. 02:32:25.719 --> 02:32:30.479 Anyone else who would like to speak for or against this 02:32:30.479 --> 02:32:34.719 project, please come forward at this time. 02:32:34.719 --> 02:32:37.100 Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing and open the 02:32:37.100 --> 02:32:38.719 floor for discussion or a motion. 02:32:38.719 --> 02:32:40.719 Commissioner Hudspeth. 02:32:40.719 --> 02:32:43.719 Yeah. 02:32:43.719 --> 02:32:46.719 I think. 02:32:46.719 --> 02:32:50.719 One, I still think it's early. 02:32:50.719 --> 02:32:53.719 I was getting closer to peace with early. 02:32:53.719 --> 02:32:59.209 But Dave has a point and there's been no there's of the 02:32:59.209 --> 02:33:01.719 points made. 02:33:01.719 --> 02:33:04.930 When you're talking about someone looking into the back of 02:33:04.930 --> 02:33:05.719 your yard. 02:33:05.719 --> 02:33:09.270 So now it's almost like there's no there's been no 02:33:09.270 --> 02:33:11.719 explanation for that caveat. 02:33:11.719 --> 02:33:14.719 It's there's there's one thing to say, hey, it fits. 02:33:14.719 --> 02:33:17.719 There's one thing to say we're in front of the power curve. 02:33:17.719 --> 02:33:22.670 It's another thing to say to me, I liken it to when you're 02:33:22.670 --> 02:33:26.219 in school and you're in the lunch line and you tell 02:33:26.219 --> 02:33:29.290 somebody, hey, you can't cut in front of me, but you're 02:33:29.290 --> 02:33:30.719 going to have back cuts. 02:33:30.719 --> 02:33:33.770 Right. So you're you're telling the person behind you, hey, 02:33:33.770 --> 02:33:35.719 I don't I don't value your opinion that much. 02:33:35.719 --> 02:33:41.209 And so I think there's nothing that mitigates that to me 02:33:41.209 --> 02:33:46.229 unless we add a caveat that that multifamily either stays 02:33:46.229 --> 02:33:50.049 one story or there's some mitigation at the back that 02:33:50.049 --> 02:33:56.719 protects Dave to fully use his backyard. 02:33:56.719 --> 02:33:58.719 Because otherwise he's absolutely right. 02:33:58.719 --> 02:34:00.780 There's some sort of balcony, there's some sort of window 02:34:00.780 --> 02:34:02.719 that's looking right down in the back of his yard. 02:34:02.719 --> 02:34:06.030 And I have to be OK with saying, hey, Dave, I'm going to 02:34:06.030 --> 02:34:08.719 let Mickey have back cuts in front of you. 02:34:08.719 --> 02:34:10.719 And I don't think that's right. 02:34:10.719 --> 02:34:13.549 And I'm probably outside looking in, but I would challenge 02:34:13.549 --> 02:34:16.139 the other commissioners to justify that and do it at your 02:34:16.139 --> 02:34:16.719 house. 02:34:16.719 --> 02:34:22.899 So imagine you lose the use of your backyard because the 02:34:22.899 --> 02:34:29.719 property in front of you is staring down at your backyard. 02:34:29.719 --> 02:34:29.719 And if you're at peace with that, then then you're 02:34:29.719 --> 02:34:29.719 different than me. 02:34:29.719 --> 02:34:31.719 I'm not I wouldn't be OK with that. 02:34:31.719 --> 02:34:36.319 So unless there's some sort of mitigation to go in place 02:34:36.319 --> 02:34:41.229 flat zoning as is because the way I rationalize it, looking 02:34:41.229 --> 02:34:43.719 at the zoning as is, it's not my fault. 02:34:43.719 --> 02:34:47.790 If I sign on saying, hey, this is OK, then I'm accepting 02:34:47.790 --> 02:34:51.430 that it's OK for apartment to be to look in the back of 02:34:51.430 --> 02:34:52.719 Dave's yard. 02:34:52.719 --> 02:34:56.719 And I'm not OK with that. So that's where I fall. 02:34:56.719 --> 02:34:59.799 Just as a point of order, we could not do an overlay on 02:34:59.799 --> 02:35:03.229 this project because we don't have a commercial component 02:35:03.229 --> 02:35:04.719 that we're buffering. 02:35:04.719 --> 02:35:06.719 OK. 02:35:06.719 --> 02:35:07.719 Commissioner Beck. 02:35:07.719 --> 02:35:09.719 Thank you, Chair. 02:35:09.719 --> 02:35:13.500 I would suspect to you know, Mr. Sutcliffe is the only one 02:35:13.500 --> 02:35:17.129 that came to the meeting that they're probably just about 02:35:17.129 --> 02:35:21.110 every other one person that lives in that neighborhood that 02:35:21.110 --> 02:35:24.149 lives in a single family home probably has similar 02:35:24.149 --> 02:35:24.719 sentiments. 02:35:24.719 --> 02:35:28.610 And that's why I've always had a problem with the 02:35:28.610 --> 02:35:29.719 notification issue. 02:35:29.719 --> 02:35:32.239 We don't always seem to get the feedback that's really out 02:35:32.239 --> 02:35:32.719 there. 02:35:32.719 --> 02:35:39.159 But that being said, I would like to make a motion that we 02:35:39.159 --> 02:35:42.719 deny this zone change request. 02:35:42.719 --> 02:35:43.719 Commissioner Roselle. 02:35:43.719 --> 02:35:45.719 Thank you, Chair. 02:35:45.719 --> 02:35:49.590 Thank you, Sutcliffe, for coming out and speaking and the 02:35:49.590 --> 02:35:51.719 Patterson's for presenting. 02:35:51.719 --> 02:35:55.170 It's an interesting predicament when an individual comes 02:35:55.170 --> 02:35:58.590 with a zoning change and one person shows up against it and 02:35:58.590 --> 02:35:59.719 it's the neighbor. 02:35:59.719 --> 02:36:05.719 Because your concerns are valid and a lot of ways right. 02:36:05.719 --> 02:36:08.770 But it's hard for me as a commissioner to hear the 02:36:08.770 --> 02:36:12.290 testimony of one person, albeit the closest person, it 02:36:12.290 --> 02:36:15.719 seems, and make the decision based on one person. 02:36:15.719 --> 02:36:17.840 And I'm certainly not going to assume that any other 02:36:17.840 --> 02:36:20.049 neighbor believes the same thing without them saying 02:36:20.049 --> 02:36:20.719 something. 02:36:20.719 --> 02:36:23.719 I think that's a dangerous assumption to make. 02:36:23.719 --> 02:36:25.719 I don't know what they think. 02:36:25.719 --> 02:36:31.079 And if we send that logical argument to its end, well, I 02:36:31.079 --> 02:36:32.719 wouldn't want that in my backyard. 02:36:32.719 --> 02:36:35.930 So probably the entire city's against this, right, if we 02:36:35.930 --> 02:36:36.719 extend it. 02:36:36.719 --> 02:36:39.770 And so I don't feel like we can say with any kind of 02:36:39.770 --> 02:36:42.719 confidence what any other neighbor thinks. 02:36:42.719 --> 02:36:44.719 It would just be an assumption on our part. 02:36:44.719 --> 02:36:48.719 That being said, there's nothing else like it around. 02:36:48.719 --> 02:36:51.719 There's nothing else looking in your backyard currently. 02:36:51.719 --> 02:36:55.719 So it does change the landscape of your quality of life. 02:36:55.719 --> 02:37:01.350 And so that's that certainly has some import to my decision 02:37:01.350 --> 02:37:01.719 . 02:37:01.719 --> 02:37:06.219 The greater scope, though, is just looking at this 02:37:06.219 --> 02:37:11.250 neighborhood, the precedent, it seems, set that within a 02:37:11.250 --> 02:37:16.700 stone's throw, 30 feet, there's there's a massive apartment 02:37:16.700 --> 02:37:17.719 complex. 02:37:17.719 --> 02:37:20.870 And to Commissioner Hutz's point about being ahead of the 02:37:20.870 --> 02:37:24.590 power curve, if that assumes I'm not sure what a power 02:37:24.590 --> 02:37:26.719 curve means, forgive me. 02:37:26.719 --> 02:37:29.840 But if there's a momentum shift of this neighborhood, 02:37:29.840 --> 02:37:31.719 someone's going to be first. 02:37:31.719 --> 02:37:35.450 And so it's hard to put the onus on them that they're early 02:37:35.450 --> 02:37:35.719 . 02:37:35.719 --> 02:37:38.549 Maybe actually they're at the beginning of that power curve 02:37:38.549 --> 02:37:38.719 . 02:37:38.719 --> 02:37:42.239 Maybe they're the instance that actually propels what you 02:37:42.239 --> 02:37:45.719 believe is a foregone conclusion already into place. 02:37:45.719 --> 02:37:48.719 I just don't know about that either. 02:37:48.719 --> 02:37:49.719 I know I'm being vague here. 02:37:49.719 --> 02:37:52.719 I think it could go either way. 02:37:52.719 --> 02:37:57.020 That being said, seeing that this block has already started 02:37:57.020 --> 02:38:01.059 the momentum of changing on the northwest corner, the 02:38:01.059 --> 02:38:05.719 southwest corner, even up Neff Street on the east side, 02:38:05.719 --> 02:38:08.350 those are duplexes, but it changes the character of the 02:38:08.350 --> 02:38:11.209 street, albeit not from a zoning perspective, from an 02:38:11.209 --> 02:38:13.719 aesthetics perspective for sure. 02:38:13.719 --> 02:38:20.799 Neff Street, it looks like, is evolving into just a more 02:38:20.799 --> 02:38:23.719 dense type of living area. 02:38:23.719 --> 02:38:26.190 So I say that all to say I'm interested in the other 02:38:26.190 --> 02:38:27.719 commissioners thoughts. 02:38:27.719 --> 02:38:29.719 I appreciate very much. 02:38:29.719 --> 02:38:31.719 So I'm not undermining what you're thinking. 02:38:31.719 --> 02:38:34.719 I just want you to know that the tension I have is I don't 02:38:34.719 --> 02:38:36.719 know what anyone else thinks. 02:38:36.719 --> 02:38:40.450 And I fear one property owner having so much power over 02:38:40.450 --> 02:38:44.719 another property's owners ability to act on their property. 02:38:44.719 --> 02:38:46.719 They've they've purchased the property. 02:38:46.719 --> 02:38:49.829 And so they they have some authority over what can be built 02:38:49.829 --> 02:38:51.719 within the purviews of zoning. 02:38:51.719 --> 02:38:52.719 So there's a tension there. 02:38:52.719 --> 02:38:54.719 What do you want for your property? 02:38:54.719 --> 02:38:55.719 What do you want for your property? 02:38:55.719 --> 02:38:58.719 And then how greater impacts the city. 02:38:58.719 --> 02:39:02.760 And so it's certainly kind of a sticky situation, but it 02:39:02.760 --> 02:39:06.719 seems like precedent has begun to be set in the area. 02:39:06.719 --> 02:39:08.719 That's all I got. 02:39:08.719 --> 02:39:10.719 McCall on a Julie. 02:39:10.719 --> 02:39:13.430 I'm going to have a couple of comments to pull up our 02:39:13.430 --> 02:39:14.719 Google Earth again. 02:39:14.719 --> 02:39:17.719 And I'd like for you to pull up in our map here. 02:39:17.719 --> 02:39:23.350 It shows a structure to the west of this project right here 02:39:23.350 --> 02:39:23.719 . 02:39:23.719 --> 02:39:27.719 If you can go across the street on our map, it shows. 02:39:27.719 --> 02:39:31.719 No, to the west, the apartment community that you have up, 02:39:31.719 --> 02:39:36.059 if you'll just turn the street view 180 degrees and look 02:39:36.059 --> 02:39:38.719 west, that's no longer there. 02:39:38.719 --> 02:39:41.719 It's unfortunately it's OK now. 02:39:41.719 --> 02:39:42.719 It just disappeared. 02:39:42.719 --> 02:39:48.719 Well, magic. 02:39:48.719 --> 02:39:50.719 Tomorrow might be a great day. 02:39:50.719 --> 02:39:56.209 I'm going to try that when I get up in the morning and tell 02:39:56.209 --> 02:39:58.719 them what might happen. 02:39:58.719 --> 02:40:04.719 So I appreciate you pulling this up because I am torn also, 02:40:04.719 --> 02:40:10.120 like Commissioner Roselle says, in regards to the map, the 02:40:10.120 --> 02:40:11.719 testimony. 02:40:11.719 --> 02:40:15.600 And yet I don't know who ever is going to be first versus 02:40:15.600 --> 02:40:16.719 whose last. 02:40:16.719 --> 02:40:18.719 First is there on the corner. 02:40:18.719 --> 02:40:20.719 I think next is across the street. 02:40:20.719 --> 02:40:23.719 It has been cleared. 02:40:23.719 --> 02:40:25.719 It's obviously no longer single family. 02:40:25.719 --> 02:40:29.450 The likelihood that single family will be built there, I 02:40:29.450 --> 02:40:30.719 think, is zero. 02:40:30.719 --> 02:40:34.719 It's it's D.R. 2 in North Texas area. 02:40:34.719 --> 02:40:38.590 And I think, unfortunately, that's just the reality of 02:40:38.590 --> 02:40:39.719 where we are. 02:40:39.719 --> 02:40:42.600 And I think as you pan down the street, if you look to the 02:40:42.600 --> 02:40:44.719 north, there's apartments there. 02:40:44.719 --> 02:40:47.719 There's apartments being built further down. 02:40:47.719 --> 02:40:52.719 It is a transitional neighborhood. 02:40:52.719 --> 02:40:58.719 I understand that it is very invasive for single family. 02:40:58.719 --> 02:41:04.659 And yet there is development and redevelopment taking place 02:41:04.659 --> 02:41:08.989 across the street, probably getting ready to take place 02:41:08.989 --> 02:41:10.719 across the street again. 02:41:10.719 --> 02:41:14.670 And I'm torn because we have before us many times as a 02:41:14.670 --> 02:41:17.719 commission, we don't want it here. We want it over there. 02:41:17.719 --> 02:41:22.409 Well, now it's over there and I don't know that I want it 02:41:22.409 --> 02:41:23.719 over there. 02:41:23.719 --> 02:41:28.170 And so I'm I think I'm leaning to with just driving by and 02:41:28.170 --> 02:41:32.719 take a look at what was around there that, you know, 02:41:32.719 --> 02:41:36.600 even though it may be contrary to staff's suggestion that, 02:41:36.600 --> 02:41:40.610 you know, to to rezoning, but I do think it's transitioning 02:41:40.610 --> 02:41:44.110 and I think it's that's direction that it's that it's going 02:41:44.110 --> 02:41:44.719 to go. 02:41:44.719 --> 02:41:48.840 So I appreciate you pulling this up to be able to take a 02:41:48.840 --> 02:41:53.250 look at it for everybody as to what is really going on over 02:41:53.250 --> 02:41:55.719 there in the neighborhood. 02:41:55.719 --> 02:41:58.719 Commissioner Taylor. Thank you, Chair. 02:41:58.719 --> 02:42:07.229 So this is the intersection of a lot of things we we have 02:42:07.229 --> 02:42:09.719 generally zoned to this area. 02:42:09.719 --> 02:42:14.979 We've changed the zoning one or two lots at a time in this 02:42:14.979 --> 02:42:17.719 area, mainly along Eagle. 02:42:17.719 --> 02:42:19.829 The apartments that came in, we might have the occasional 02:42:19.829 --> 02:42:22.020 apartment that would be 10 or 15 lots and maybe two or 02:42:22.020 --> 02:42:23.719 three zoning categories that would change. 02:42:23.719 --> 02:42:27.680 But inside along Fannin Street and Margie and trying to see 02:42:27.680 --> 02:42:30.719 what all there is what there is over here. 02:42:30.719 --> 02:42:35.159 I can remember cases along all of these where the first 02:42:35.159 --> 02:42:39.360 house on the block was rezoned and then two more lots went 02:42:39.360 --> 02:42:41.719 or the lot that backed up to it went. 02:42:41.719 --> 02:42:48.090 So this area is is has been slowly transitioning for at 02:42:48.090 --> 02:42:51.719 least 15 years or more. 02:42:51.719 --> 02:42:58.000 And I realize that there there can be some stable 02:42:58.000 --> 02:43:01.719 neighborhoods with rentals. 02:43:01.719 --> 02:43:05.590 But typically the investment that protects the neighborhood 02:43:05.590 --> 02:43:07.719 is with owner occupied houses. 02:43:07.719 --> 02:43:10.840 And there are just a tiny handful. I'm flipping through the 02:43:10.840 --> 02:43:14.719 tax rolls here and about 10 houses, 12 houses a block, 02:43:14.719 --> 02:43:19.719 maybe one in 10 or one in 15 is owner occupied. 02:43:19.719 --> 02:43:22.760 And about half the addresses are somewhere else in town and 02:43:22.760 --> 02:43:25.719 half the addresses are out of state out of the country. 02:43:25.719 --> 02:43:29.090 There's a there's a row of those giant duplexes at the end 02:43:29.090 --> 02:43:29.719 of Neff. 02:43:29.719 --> 02:43:32.020 They're owned by somebody that lives in Venezuela or 02:43:32.020 --> 02:43:32.719 something. 02:43:32.719 --> 02:43:38.209 So I think we I feel like this area is going to be going to 02:43:38.209 --> 02:43:43.250 transition no matter what we can slow it down and we can 02:43:43.250 --> 02:43:45.719 say the lot on the corner has to go first. 02:43:45.719 --> 02:43:47.719 But I don't think that really helps. 02:43:47.719 --> 02:43:53.780 I also worry that frankly those 5000 square foot two story 02:43:53.780 --> 02:43:59.799 duplexes are probably a worse option than an apartment, a 02:43:59.799 --> 02:44:04.420 small apartment with a maximum 40 feet or 45 feet in height 02:44:04.420 --> 02:44:04.719 . 02:44:04.719 --> 02:44:09.319 So so I feel the pain for I feel your pain of having a 02:44:09.319 --> 02:44:12.719 development coming behind you. 02:44:12.719 --> 02:44:16.030 I've experienced that myself and it made me move from where 02:44:16.030 --> 02:44:18.719 I was renting at the time. But I I don't think there's 02:44:18.719 --> 02:44:20.719 anything that would stop the development here. 02:44:20.719 --> 02:44:23.989 And I think it would be better to have a smaller higher 02:44:23.989 --> 02:44:29.319 quality, a small high quality apartment complex than 02:44:29.319 --> 02:44:34.719 somebody maximizing a duplex on these on these lots. 02:44:34.719 --> 02:44:38.760 And you'd have the same problem with the multi story duplex 02:44:38.760 --> 02:44:40.719 right behind you as well. 02:44:40.719 --> 02:44:42.719 Commissioner Ellis. 02:44:42.719 --> 02:44:46.450 Thank you, Chair. Yeah, I have been on the fence, you know, 02:44:46.450 --> 02:44:49.979 since I started reading all the material on this in driving 02:44:49.979 --> 02:44:51.719 the area a couple of times. 02:44:51.719 --> 02:44:55.450 I think even though it's it's dear one, I think those 02:44:55.450 --> 02:44:59.450 clusters of duplexes on the corners are already pushing the 02:44:59.450 --> 02:45:03.719 limit of where this area is going to this higher density. 02:45:03.719 --> 02:45:08.170 I would hate to see this this not redeveloped and this sit 02:45:08.170 --> 02:45:11.719 vacant to Commissioner Taylor's point. 02:45:11.719 --> 02:45:16.649 I think it is in transition and the transition is to go to 02:45:16.649 --> 02:45:19.719 the air to and higher density. 02:45:19.719 --> 02:45:24.260 I fully understand your comments. I know that the building 02:45:24.260 --> 02:45:26.719 heights don't vary that that much. 02:45:26.719 --> 02:45:29.219 It's five feet difference. It's 40 feet with the air. One 02:45:29.219 --> 02:45:32.719 forty five with the air to. 02:45:32.719 --> 02:45:37.819 But I am leaning in support of this because I do see that 02:45:37.819 --> 02:45:44.719 it would it would fit with where the area is heading. 02:45:44.719 --> 02:45:48.719 Commissioner Hodge with. 02:45:48.719 --> 02:45:53.270 Thank you. Just again, I've heard the comments and and I'll 02:45:53.270 --> 02:45:54.719 I'll take that. 02:45:54.719 --> 02:45:59.809 I'll use that last little nugget if if the height 02:45:59.809 --> 02:46:05.540 difference doesn't matter that much, then it doesn't matter 02:46:05.540 --> 02:46:06.719 that much to change it. 02:46:06.719 --> 02:46:09.989 Right. So either the height height difference matters or 02:46:09.989 --> 02:46:10.719 does not. 02:46:10.719 --> 02:46:13.930 And if I grab that quote, you said the height doesn't doesn 02:46:13.930 --> 02:46:14.719 't matter. 02:46:14.719 --> 02:46:17.719 Then I agree with you. It doesn't matter. 02:46:17.719 --> 02:46:22.760 And so I would leave it as is personally just because it's 02:46:22.760 --> 02:46:25.719 not that big of a difference. 02:46:25.719 --> 02:46:35.719 And I again, we all agree that it's the area is changing. 02:46:35.719 --> 02:46:38.719 No one's disagreeing with that. I've not heard anyone. 02:46:38.719 --> 02:46:42.180 And I again, I'm certain I'm outside looking in. I did 02:46:42.180 --> 02:46:46.719 second Commissioner Beck's motion to deny. 02:46:46.719 --> 02:46:52.200 But I've not heard anyone. Commissioner Taylor mentioned he 02:46:52.200 --> 02:46:54.719 's been victim of it and he moved. 02:46:54.719 --> 02:46:58.719 But I've not heard anyone. 02:46:58.719 --> 02:47:03.379 I guess by not saying that you are saying you're okay with 02:47:03.379 --> 02:47:07.260 that dynamic of someone building something that looks 02:47:07.260 --> 02:47:08.719 directly into the end of the neighbor's home. 02:47:08.719 --> 02:47:11.860 But I'll tell you, there's nothing on that block currently 02:47:11.860 --> 02:47:13.719 built that says that does that. 02:47:13.719 --> 02:47:18.399 There's nothing anywhere in that area that simulates what 02:47:18.399 --> 02:47:22.719 they're up against conceding it's going that way. 02:47:22.719 --> 02:47:25.860 My only point is one, it hadn't been done to anyone on the 02:47:25.860 --> 02:47:27.719 block anywhere in there yet. 02:47:27.719 --> 02:47:32.389 Two, if everyone lives in all these different states and 02:47:32.389 --> 02:47:34.719 all these different places, 02:47:34.719 --> 02:47:38.739 then I find it interesting that they wouldn't be on board 02:47:38.739 --> 02:47:42.620 for signing up to partner up with them and giving their 02:47:42.620 --> 02:47:43.719 thumbs up. 02:47:43.719 --> 02:47:47.719 I mean, they live elsewhere. It's an investment property. 02:47:47.719 --> 02:47:49.719 They're all in. 02:47:49.719 --> 02:47:53.790 Where are they? So I'm assuming they have businesses. I'm 02:47:53.790 --> 02:47:54.719 assuming they have business numbers. 02:47:54.719 --> 02:47:57.770 I'm assuming they have all these points of access, but 02:47:57.770 --> 02:47:59.719 somehow they're missing as well. 02:47:59.719 --> 02:48:03.090 So my point is simply point for point, we can agree the 02:48:03.090 --> 02:48:04.719 area's transitioned. 02:48:04.719 --> 02:48:09.049 We can agree it's coming. My point is this is in the middle 02:48:09.049 --> 02:48:11.719 of the block, it's not the place to start. 02:48:11.719 --> 02:48:14.799 My point is I didn't set the zoning for that corner, and 02:48:14.799 --> 02:48:17.719 that corner lot does not look in anyone's yard. 02:48:17.719 --> 02:48:20.719 And so I'd love to, I mean, we'll vote and we'll be done. 02:48:20.719 --> 02:48:26.549 But that's my point, that no one's addressed the fact that 02:48:26.549 --> 02:48:30.719 or not, in my humble opinion, made it okay, 02:48:30.719 --> 02:48:34.200 that this is going, we're going to launch in the middle of 02:48:34.200 --> 02:48:36.719 a street that has a direct vantage point. 02:48:36.719 --> 02:48:40.450 And renting or not, I don't think, I mean, they're going to 02:48:40.450 --> 02:48:42.719 lose their backyard to some degree. 02:48:42.719 --> 02:48:49.590 And I count, get back to four, well, I lost my, no, it didn 02:48:49.590 --> 02:48:51.719 't, here we go. 02:48:51.719 --> 02:48:55.290 There are, let's see, on the back of that vacant lot, there 02:48:55.290 --> 02:48:57.719 's one, two, three, four structures. 02:48:57.719 --> 02:48:59.719 You call that one a garage. 02:48:59.719 --> 02:49:03.590 So three structures that are going to volunteer their 02:49:03.590 --> 02:49:05.719 backyard for this project. 02:49:05.719 --> 02:49:08.719 And there's no other backyards in that neighborhood. 02:49:08.719 --> 02:49:12.629 You can Google street, you can Google earth, you can aerial 02:49:12.629 --> 02:49:13.719 all you want. 02:49:13.719 --> 02:49:16.899 This will be the launching point for looking in people's 02:49:16.899 --> 02:49:17.719 backyard. 02:49:17.719 --> 02:49:20.549 They'll have a shot at Avenue A and they'll have a shot at 02:49:20.549 --> 02:49:23.870 Greenlea's backyard, depending on what kind of structure 02:49:23.870 --> 02:49:24.719 goes there. 02:49:24.719 --> 02:49:25.719 So that's my only concern. 02:49:25.719 --> 02:49:27.719 That's why I'm not supporting it. 02:49:27.719 --> 02:49:29.719 Commissioner Rossell. 02:49:29.719 --> 02:49:31.719 Thanks, Chair. 02:49:31.719 --> 02:49:36.389 To your point, Commissioner, I think the property first 02:49:36.389 --> 02:49:40.860 shown on the corner certainly looks into a couple of back 02:49:40.860 --> 02:49:41.719 yards. 02:49:41.719 --> 02:49:42.719 There's no windows on the end? 02:49:42.719 --> 02:49:44.719 That's my assumption. 02:49:44.719 --> 02:49:47.899 But I guess moreover to Commissioner Ellis's point, the 02:49:47.899 --> 02:49:51.020 property owners right now could build a 40-foot building 02:49:51.020 --> 02:49:51.719 right now. 02:49:51.719 --> 02:49:55.719 And that would ostensibly ruin their backyard, is what you 02:49:55.719 --> 02:49:56.719 're saying. 02:49:56.719 --> 02:49:59.639 So it's not that by us approving this, we're systematically 02:49:59.639 --> 02:50:01.719 ruining the individual's backyard. 02:50:01.719 --> 02:50:05.629 That has the potential to be ruined, quote unquote, 02:50:05.629 --> 02:50:07.719 regardless of this vote. 02:50:07.719 --> 02:50:12.600 So if the deny goes through as you're voting, that doesn't 02:50:12.600 --> 02:50:16.719 protect them from someone looking into their backyard. 02:50:16.719 --> 02:50:19.260 I hope that's known that you're not protecting their 02:50:19.260 --> 02:50:20.719 backyard by this denial. 02:50:20.719 --> 02:50:21.719 True. 02:50:21.719 --> 02:50:27.110 It would just be changing the scope in which the individual 02:50:27.110 --> 02:50:27.719 is. 02:50:27.719 --> 02:50:31.719 I mean, if they're running a duplex or part of a complex. 02:50:31.719 --> 02:50:34.719 I've got one final question for staff. 02:50:34.719 --> 02:50:37.719 I'm going to call on Menal to come up. 02:50:37.719 --> 02:50:51.479 And I just want to throw it and ask your professional 02:50:51.479 --> 02:50:54.719 opinion. 02:50:54.719 --> 02:50:58.090 I think you hear the direction we're going on the mid-block 02:50:58.090 --> 02:50:58.719 rezone. 02:50:58.719 --> 02:51:02.719 I'd like to get your perspective on it. 02:51:02.719 --> 02:51:06.270 A couple of things, I'd like to preface the answer with a 02:51:06.270 --> 02:51:11.059 couple of statements that were brought up that staff or the 02:51:11.059 --> 02:51:12.719 planning division has re-zoned several properties, 02:51:12.719 --> 02:51:15.719 perhaps mid-block or at specific hard corners. 02:51:15.719 --> 02:51:18.270 And that's been going on, and that's a trend that you've 02:51:18.270 --> 02:51:18.719 seen. 02:51:18.719 --> 02:51:21.850 However, if we look back a little bit, we've revisited that 02:51:21.850 --> 02:51:26.450 methodology, so to speak, or that pattern and discerned 02:51:26.450 --> 02:51:28.819 that we have a couple of issues that we need to take under 02:51:28.819 --> 02:51:29.719 consideration. 02:51:29.719 --> 02:51:34.670 One primarily being the integrity of existing neighborhoods 02:51:34.670 --> 02:51:36.719 or zoning districts. 02:51:36.719 --> 02:51:41.719 To follow that, we're also talking about small area plans. 02:51:41.719 --> 02:51:45.590 We've been talking about what the activity associated with 02:51:45.590 --> 02:51:46.719 that would be. 02:51:46.719 --> 02:51:49.829 So when we visit this property and what's come before us in 02:51:49.829 --> 02:51:52.719 terms of the analysis that the planning division has 02:51:52.719 --> 02:51:53.719 conducted, 02:51:53.719 --> 02:51:57.909 it's primarily based on we're taking a piece of a puzzle 02:51:57.909 --> 02:52:02.059 out of a puzzle that's already built and leaving a bit of a 02:52:02.059 --> 02:52:02.719 hole in there, 02:52:02.719 --> 02:52:06.180 assuming that there will be vertical integration of some 02:52:06.180 --> 02:52:06.719 type. 02:52:06.719 --> 02:52:08.719 So some of that is assumption based. 02:52:08.719 --> 02:52:11.770 And then it goes back to the bigger question that P&Z 02:52:11.770 --> 02:52:14.420 raised with us several times is, why don't we look at 02:52:14.420 --> 02:52:15.719 zoning from a cohesive standpoint? 02:52:15.719 --> 02:52:18.719 Why don't we take bigger parcels and zone them together? 02:52:18.719 --> 02:52:22.639 So putting that whole puzzle together, that is why you see 02:52:22.639 --> 02:52:27.059 the recommendation of the planning division saying that at 02:52:27.059 --> 02:52:28.719 this time, 02:52:28.719 --> 02:52:32.600 I think the better way to put it is that it is not feasible 02:52:32.600 --> 02:52:36.719 from a planning perspective to rezone this property. 02:52:36.719 --> 02:52:39.719 And although you've mentioned that uses are very similar, 02:52:39.719 --> 02:52:43.110 for example, or building heights are very similar when we 02:52:43.110 --> 02:52:46.260 talk about zoning and the cohesiveness of the zoning 02:52:46.260 --> 02:52:46.719 pattern, 02:52:46.719 --> 02:52:49.719 that's the analysis that was conducted based on this. 02:52:49.719 --> 02:52:52.200 I definitely agree that there are a lot of concepts out 02:52:52.200 --> 02:52:52.719 there. 02:52:52.719 --> 02:52:54.719 I also agree that there are separations. 02:52:54.719 --> 02:52:56.719 You can create physical separations by street. 02:52:56.719 --> 02:53:00.719 You can create physical separations by structure. 02:53:00.719 --> 02:53:04.450 In this case, we don't have that solid line as it relates 02:53:04.450 --> 02:53:08.110 to the subject property in association with what's around 02:53:08.110 --> 02:53:10.719 them, abutting them. 02:53:10.719 --> 02:53:14.719 That was the -- did I answer your question? 02:53:14.719 --> 02:53:15.719 I attempted to. 02:53:15.719 --> 02:53:22.430 I think you're doing a good job on providing staff's 02:53:22.430 --> 02:53:24.719 perspective. 02:53:24.719 --> 02:53:28.739 I guess I'm struggling a little bit with supporting staff's 02:53:28.739 --> 02:53:33.059 perspective with the apartments already on the corner, I 02:53:33.059 --> 02:53:34.719 guess the southwest corner, 02:53:34.719 --> 02:53:39.229 and all of this going on across the street is -- why is it 02:53:39.229 --> 02:53:40.719 so different? 02:53:40.719 --> 02:53:46.389 Why is the one lot over with all that's going on around it 02:53:46.389 --> 02:53:50.020 -- where do you draw the line of this is neighborhood and 02:53:50.020 --> 02:53:55.069 this is multifamily when it seems to be somewhat intertw 02:53:55.069 --> 02:53:55.719 ined? 02:53:55.719 --> 02:53:58.770 Absolutely intertwined, perhaps based on the DR2 districts, 02:53:58.770 --> 02:54:02.020 keeping in mind that we also have a development code that's 02:54:02.020 --> 02:54:02.719 online. 02:54:02.719 --> 02:54:05.809 So you've got so many parameters that are at play or so 02:54:05.809 --> 02:54:07.719 many moving parts right now. 02:54:07.719 --> 02:54:10.180 If there is a use that needs to be developed and we're 02:54:10.180 --> 02:54:13.889 talking about .4 acre, then perhaps that ingenuity needs to 02:54:13.889 --> 02:54:18.250 be broadened or expanded to take in a little more maybe in 02:54:18.250 --> 02:54:20.719 terms of property area or lot area. 02:54:20.719 --> 02:54:26.209 This is already subject to the small area plan that we are 02:54:26.209 --> 02:54:28.719 currently initiating. 02:54:28.719 --> 02:54:31.829 Since we're in public session, can we get an insight as to 02:54:31.829 --> 02:54:33.719 the small area plan direction? 02:54:33.719 --> 02:54:34.719 Is it going DR2? 02:54:34.719 --> 02:54:36.719 Is it going DCG? 02:54:36.719 --> 02:54:39.719 Well, we're still at the beginning phases. 02:54:39.719 --> 02:54:41.719 Of course, we're going to take public input. 02:54:41.719 --> 02:54:45.190 We're going to do some outreach to the neighborhood and see 02:54:45.190 --> 02:54:47.719 how they want to see this area develop. 02:54:47.719 --> 02:54:51.020 But what we can say at this point is that this area is 02:54:51.020 --> 02:54:53.719 included in the study area boundary. 02:54:53.719 --> 02:54:57.590 And so how it turns out is going to be dependent on the 02:54:57.590 --> 02:55:01.719 feedback that we get from that area of the community. 02:55:01.719 --> 02:55:04.719 Okay. 02:55:04.719 --> 02:55:07.719 There you have your presentation. 02:55:07.719 --> 02:55:08.719 Super. 02:55:08.719 --> 02:55:12.450 So, yes, we do have the small area plan that's under 02:55:12.450 --> 02:55:14.719 consideration, so to speak. 02:55:14.719 --> 02:55:20.129 Looking at the aerial imagery that we have before us, the 02:55:20.129 --> 02:55:25.719 abutting uses are primarily residential in nature too. 02:55:25.719 --> 02:55:26.719 Chair? 02:55:26.719 --> 02:55:28.719 Commissioner Rossello. 02:55:28.719 --> 02:55:31.229 I just wanted to pick up on all this brain while you're 02:55:31.229 --> 02:55:31.719 here. 02:55:31.719 --> 02:55:32.719 Okay. 02:55:32.719 --> 02:55:34.719 The small area plan. 02:55:34.719 --> 02:55:36.719 Can you help me out? 02:55:36.719 --> 02:55:41.530 If it is the direction of the small area plan to -- I don't 02:55:41.530 --> 02:55:43.719 know how to word this. 02:55:43.719 --> 02:55:47.450 Could they override what we change or deny tonight by a 02:55:47.450 --> 02:55:48.719 zoning change? 02:55:48.719 --> 02:55:51.719 So the small area plan is a vision. 02:55:51.719 --> 02:55:52.719 It's a visioning document. 02:55:52.719 --> 02:55:55.549 Through that, you can design patent books and you can 02:55:55.549 --> 02:55:58.719 establish specific criteria or an implementation plan. 02:55:58.719 --> 02:56:01.940 Then you establish your design criteria or your development 02:56:01.940 --> 02:56:03.719 patent associated with that. 02:56:03.719 --> 02:56:08.069 If there then is a need to rezone to bring everything back 02:56:08.069 --> 02:56:11.610 into -- that's when -- are we altering -- the question then 02:56:11.610 --> 02:56:11.719 is, 02:56:11.719 --> 02:56:16.129 is this zoning case going to alter the land use patent of 02:56:16.129 --> 02:56:18.719 immediate or adjacent uses? 02:56:18.719 --> 02:56:21.719 And do we have a timeline on the small area plan? 02:56:21.719 --> 02:56:25.790 It is approximately at a minimum an 18-month program due to 02:56:25.790 --> 02:56:29.719 the public involvement that we're going to have with it. 02:56:29.719 --> 02:56:32.719 So we're looking at the beginning of 2019? 02:56:32.719 --> 02:56:34.719 So we are looking at -- 02:56:34.719 --> 02:56:35.719 Mid-19? 02:56:35.719 --> 02:56:37.719 End of 2018 probably. 02:56:37.719 --> 02:56:39.719 Okay. 02:56:39.719 --> 02:56:41.719 Thank you. 02:56:41.719 --> 02:56:45.719 But again, our initiative is to make sure we start bringing 02:56:45.719 --> 02:56:49.139 things back to how you as a PNZ have visioned -- have done 02:56:49.139 --> 02:56:49.719 your visioning with us, 02:56:49.719 --> 02:56:53.680 highlighted several issues to us as well, which we concur 02:56:53.680 --> 02:56:55.719 with as well to a great extent. 02:56:55.719 --> 02:56:57.719 I mean, I'm sure we disagree on certain things, but -- 02:56:57.719 --> 02:56:58.719 Never. 02:56:58.719 --> 02:57:00.719 Never, absolutely. 02:57:00.719 --> 02:57:03.350 But from a basic framework standpoint, whenever we've 02:57:03.350 --> 02:57:06.719 talked about what are we doing, what are we protecting, 02:57:06.719 --> 02:57:09.840 what integrity are we maintaining, that's the fundamental 02:57:09.840 --> 02:57:10.719 conversation. 02:57:10.719 --> 02:57:20.719 Unfortunately, the timeline is so long on the front end. I 02:57:20.719 --> 02:57:20.719 mean, if we had direction of a small area plan, this 02:57:20.719 --> 02:57:20.719 discussion might be a little bit more guided from a 02:57:20.719 --> 02:57:20.719 neighborhood standpoint. 02:57:20.719 --> 02:57:21.719 Sure. 02:57:21.719 --> 02:57:23.920 And Commissioner Reza, one of the things that when we look 02:57:23.920 --> 02:57:26.920 at this property, we're talking about two parcels that are, 02:57:26.920 --> 02:57:28.719 you know, they're in between. 02:57:28.719 --> 02:57:30.719 They're not at specific hard corners. 02:57:30.719 --> 02:57:37.010 They're at specific hard corners or slightly -- you know, 02:57:37.010 --> 02:57:40.719 it's not even slightly removed. Then you can somehow vision 02:57:40.719 --> 02:57:40.719 that there will be a domino effect or it would create the 02:57:40.719 --> 02:57:40.719 impetus. 02:57:40.719 --> 02:57:43.770 In this case, you're looking at two lots that are adjacent 02:57:43.770 --> 02:57:45.719 or have abutting residential uses. 02:57:45.719 --> 02:57:47.719 So what is the impetus? 02:57:47.719 --> 02:57:53.139 Is the impetus to then have the entire area erode, which is 02:57:53.139 --> 02:57:56.100 then not consistent with us saying we need to also maintain 02:57:56.100 --> 02:57:59.120 the integrity of well-established older neighborhoods or 02:57:59.120 --> 02:57:59.719 homes. 02:57:59.719 --> 02:58:03.719 So it's a bit of a difficult -- it's a difficult decision. 02:58:03.719 --> 02:58:06.770 Well, can you tell me how the southwest corner and 02:58:06.770 --> 02:58:10.010 northwest corners are not that very impetus on the hard 02:58:10.010 --> 02:58:12.719 corners to forward momentum into zoning? 02:58:12.719 --> 02:58:15.770 If I'm not mistaken, when we look at the hard corners, I'm 02:58:15.770 --> 02:58:18.719 actually referring to these and these right here. 02:58:18.719 --> 02:58:20.719 As like an entrance into that street. 02:58:20.719 --> 02:58:25.299 So it's like a micro gateway into something that could 02:58:25.299 --> 02:58:30.469 potentially be eroding, but is there an opportunity then to 02:58:30.469 --> 02:58:32.719 protect that erosion? 02:58:32.719 --> 02:58:36.500 Or if we don't envision the erosion, then it goes back to 02:58:36.500 --> 02:58:40.719 the whole component of should we evaluate block by block? 02:58:40.719 --> 02:58:44.590 In terms of neighborhood integrity, does the staff view 02:58:44.590 --> 02:58:48.479 owner, occupied versus rental, single family detached 02:58:48.479 --> 02:58:49.719 differently? 02:58:49.719 --> 02:58:51.719 No. 02:58:51.719 --> 02:58:54.680 Owner occupied or rented property, it's still -- you've 02:58:54.680 --> 02:58:56.719 still got that land use component. 02:58:56.719 --> 02:58:59.719 Is it single family residential, for example? 02:58:59.719 --> 02:59:03.299 One of the elements that we will be visiting is we 02:59:03.299 --> 02:59:07.389 understand that there is a high rental market or rental 02:59:07.389 --> 02:59:08.719 housing rate. 02:59:08.719 --> 02:59:12.120 But then we have to understand how are we going to then 02:59:12.120 --> 02:59:16.100 ensure that the infrastructure accommodates those types of 02:59:16.100 --> 02:59:19.719 product as well as regular single family product. 02:59:19.719 --> 02:59:21.719 Owner home, owner occupied. 02:59:21.719 --> 02:59:22.719 Okay. 02:59:22.719 --> 02:59:24.719 Thank you. 02:59:24.719 --> 02:59:27.719 Thank you. 02:59:27.719 --> 02:59:29.719 We have a motion before us. 02:59:29.719 --> 02:59:36.719 Any other discussion for our call for a vote on the board? 02:59:36.719 --> 02:59:39.879 I'm going to call on Commissioner Beck to restate your 02:59:39.879 --> 02:59:41.719 motion and then take a vote. 02:59:41.719 --> 02:59:44.719 I motion that we deny the zone change. 02:59:44.719 --> 02:59:46.719 Okay. 02:59:46.719 --> 02:59:49.719 And with that we have a first and a second for denial. 02:59:49.719 --> 02:59:52.719 And we'll call for a vote on the board. 02:59:52.719 --> 02:59:58.110 So a vote yes is to support the denial and a vote no would 02:59:58.110 --> 03:00:00.719 be against the denial. 03:00:00.719 --> 03:00:11.719 We'll call for a vote on the board. 03:00:11.719 --> 03:00:22.719 The motion is going to fail four to two. 03:00:22.719 --> 03:00:23.719 Commissioner Taylor. 03:00:23.719 --> 03:00:27.110 I move we recommend approval to the City Council of the re 03:00:27.110 --> 03:00:28.719 zone of this property. 03:00:28.719 --> 03:00:32.719 Okay. 03:00:32.719 --> 03:00:34.719 Commissioner Ellis. 03:00:34.719 --> 03:00:35.719 Thank you, Chair. 03:00:35.719 --> 03:00:36.719 I will second. 03:00:36.719 --> 03:00:38.719 You beat me by half a hair. 03:00:38.719 --> 03:00:42.719 We have a first and a second for approval. 03:00:42.719 --> 03:00:46.719 Any discussion? 03:00:46.719 --> 03:00:56.719 Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board. 03:00:56.719 --> 03:01:03.719 The motion is going to carry four to two. 03:01:03.719 --> 03:01:12.420 That will move us to our final agenda item tonight, future 03:01:12.420 --> 03:01:18.719 agenda items. 03:01:18.719 --> 03:01:23.719 Anybody have any? 03:01:23.719 --> 03:01:25.719 I've got one. 03:01:25.719 --> 03:01:29.719 I'd like -- forgive the wording. 03:01:29.719 --> 03:01:33.719 I haven't spent a lot of time crafting this. 03:01:33.719 --> 03:01:40.360 But I would like to explore in a work session soon the 03:01:40.360 --> 03:01:47.010 possibility of adding to the cases that come before us the 03:01:47.010 --> 03:01:53.719 financial aspects of projects being a couple fold. 03:01:53.719 --> 03:01:58.719 I'm going to pull a controversial one that was before us. 03:01:58.719 --> 03:02:01.719 A couple weeks ago, part seven, for example. 03:02:01.719 --> 03:02:05.020 I think it would be helpful at least to me that when we 03:02:05.020 --> 03:02:08.639 have projects like that coming before us that we have the 03:02:08.639 --> 03:02:12.719 economic impact of what those projects bring to our city. 03:02:12.719 --> 03:02:20.030 That that's added to all of the other things that are 03:02:20.030 --> 03:02:24.719 covered in our presentation. 03:02:24.719 --> 03:02:26.840 So when we're looking at properties that may have a tax 03:02:26.840 --> 03:02:29.229 value of a few hundred thousand dollars versus 30-plus 03:02:29.229 --> 03:02:31.719 million, what does that mean on a year by year, 10 years in 03:02:31.719 --> 03:02:32.719 property taxes? 03:02:32.719 --> 03:02:38.799 What does a 300-bed unit that's a thousand dollars per unit 03:02:38.799 --> 03:02:44.579 in street impact fees, building permit fees, those types of 03:02:44.579 --> 03:02:45.719 things. 03:02:45.719 --> 03:02:50.430 And I would like to have that discussed in work session if 03:02:50.430 --> 03:02:54.899 we can have those things, how those can be covered and 03:02:54.899 --> 03:03:00.719 added as part of the presentations that are brought to us. 03:03:00.719 --> 03:03:04.219 And how that economic impact may or may not play into some 03:03:04.219 --> 03:03:07.719 of the decisions that come before this commission. 03:03:07.719 --> 03:03:11.719 Are you talking about any application or just rezoning? 03:03:11.719 --> 03:03:13.790 I know the one that you were talking about was a rezone 03:03:13.790 --> 03:03:14.719 case, I believe. 03:03:14.719 --> 03:03:16.719 Well, I don't know the correct. 03:03:16.719 --> 03:03:20.750 Because we're not supposed to take into account the actual 03:03:20.750 --> 03:03:22.719 project in a rezone case. 03:03:22.719 --> 03:03:25.719 And that seems to be the one you're targeting. 03:03:25.719 --> 03:03:28.850 Well, it was certainly taken into account in that one, and 03:03:28.850 --> 03:03:30.719 so I'm just curious how we do it. 03:03:30.719 --> 03:03:34.719 I'm not putting the framework around how staff does it. 03:03:34.719 --> 03:03:39.719 I'm just using that as a test case. 03:03:39.719 --> 03:03:43.719 I don't know the correct parameters that you use for it, 03:03:43.719 --> 03:03:48.649 whether it's just in zoning or whether it's in site plans 03:03:48.649 --> 03:03:50.719 or however it's done. 03:03:50.719 --> 03:03:55.670 But I think at no time since I've served on this commission 03:03:55.670 --> 03:03:59.719 do we ever come forth with what are the financial impacts 03:03:59.719 --> 03:04:01.719 of the cases that come before us. 03:04:01.719 --> 03:04:06.280 Whether we can talk about it in zoning or not, it's just 03:04:06.280 --> 03:04:09.280 not a part of the decision making process or the backup 03:04:09.280 --> 03:04:10.719 that comes before our commission. 03:04:10.719 --> 03:04:14.200 And I don't know how that gets implemented or whether it 03:04:14.200 --> 03:04:14.719 can. 03:04:14.719 --> 03:04:17.329 And that's why I was wanting to talk about it in work 03:04:17.329 --> 03:04:19.719 session, if that's a possibility for us. 03:04:19.719 --> 03:04:25.350 And then if it is, under what parameters would that be done 03:04:25.350 --> 03:04:25.719 ? 03:04:25.719 --> 03:04:28.719 That was long winded, but anyway, sorry. 03:04:28.719 --> 03:04:32.450 We'll have to discuss it and then get with you to clarify, 03:04:32.450 --> 03:04:33.719 narrow it down. 03:04:33.719 --> 03:04:35.719 Fair enough. Thank you. 03:04:35.719 --> 03:04:36.719 Commissioner Rozelle. 03:04:36.719 --> 03:04:37.719 Thank you, Chair. 03:04:37.719 --> 03:04:40.719 I would love to know more about small area plans. 03:04:40.719 --> 03:04:43.719 We have a couple of pending updates for small area plans. 03:04:43.719 --> 03:04:46.549 We kind of had one impromptu tonight, and Commissioner 03:04:46.549 --> 03:04:47.719 Ellis asked for one. 03:04:47.719 --> 03:04:52.190 But I would like to know kind of a tally on where small 03:04:52.190 --> 03:04:56.879 area plans exist and if there's designated definitions or 03:04:56.879 --> 03:05:01.309 directions that those small area plans help us guide our 03:05:01.309 --> 03:05:01.719 decision. 03:05:01.719 --> 03:05:05.680 I know a while ago the Ector Street area was encouraged to 03:05:05.680 --> 03:05:07.719 create a small area plan. 03:05:07.719 --> 03:05:10.899 I just don't know the process, is that always citizen 03:05:10.899 --> 03:05:14.209 initiated and where's the education piece that staff or 03:05:14.209 --> 03:05:17.719 commission can provide citizens to small area plans? 03:05:17.719 --> 03:05:21.129 But they seem extremely helpful to what the neighborhood 03:05:21.129 --> 03:05:22.719 wants in a lot of cases. 03:05:22.719 --> 03:05:25.020 And so there's a way we can promote that more or streamline 03:05:25.020 --> 03:05:25.719 the process. 03:05:25.719 --> 03:05:32.090 I would just like a breakdown as detailed as possible about 03:05:32.090 --> 03:05:37.719 small area plans and where they stand in the city. 03:05:37.719 --> 03:05:42.719 Anybody else? 03:05:42.719 --> 03:05:46.690 Okay. With that, I'm going to close our PNC meeting tonight 03:05:46.690 --> 03:05:47.719 at 845. 03:05:47.719 --> 03:05:57.719 Thank you, everyone.