1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,930 Planning and Zoning Commission Work Session for April the 2 00:00:02,930 --> 00:00:05,660 12th, 2017. This 3 00:00:05,660 --> 00:00:08,960 meeting has been duly posted and we have a quorum present 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:10,480 and I'm going to call us to 5 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:15,080 order at 435. Our first order of business will be to 6 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,519 receive clarification of 7 00:00:17,519 --> 00:00:21,019 agenda items and I will turn it over to Shandria for 8 00:00:21,019 --> 00:00:23,460 presentation. Okay, good 9 00:00:23,460 --> 00:00:27,329 evening. The first item is the minutes. Do we have any 10 00:00:27,329 --> 00:00:28,379 discussion on the minutes 11 00:00:28,379 --> 00:00:32,649 from, we don't have the minutes yet. Never mind. Okay, we 12 00:00:32,649 --> 00:00:33,899 have a final 13 00:00:33,899 --> 00:00:37,840 plaque on the consent agenda for the Basinger addition. Any 14 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,880 questions on that? 15 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:48,189 Okay, we have a final replat for Guyer High School. Any 16 00:00:48,189 --> 00:00:52,359 questions or comments? 17 00:00:52,679 --> 00:00:59,929 Hey, Haley Zagorski. Commissioner Beck. Thank you, Chair. 18 00:00:59,929 --> 00:01:02,280 Seemed when we dealt with this 19 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,109 last, I didn't know they were gonna build anything on it. I 20 00:01:05,109 --> 00:01:06,000 think there was some 21 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,829 potential there, but now is there actually a plan to build 22 00:01:08,829 --> 00:01:10,680 something there? 23 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:16,239 Yes, sir. So previously it was this large lot was what they 24 00:01:16,239 --> 00:01:16,959 had plotted and that's 25 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,120 where the existing school is. They have submitted site plan 26 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:21,680 applications to do 27 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,049 some expansions to the school building itself and then to 28 00:01:25,049 --> 00:01:26,200 put new parking lots 29 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,409 on these southern two portions that they're now taking in 30 00:01:29,409 --> 00:01:30,920 to this lot and I 31 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,760 think that's for band practice and things like that. 32 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,640 Just curious because like say last time we dealt with that, 33 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:37,840 I don't remember, you 34 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,159 know, other than them wanting to get it zoned or they could 35 00:01:40,159 --> 00:01:43,120 potentially do so. I didn't know anything. So that's it. 36 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:43,640 Thank you. 37 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:50,370 The next item Z1701 is a request to amend the DENT 38 00:01:50,370 --> 00:01:54,799 development code related to self storage use and I will 39 00:01:54,799 --> 00:01:58,719 call Julie Wyatt up for a presentation. 40 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:16,370 Good evening. Julie Wyatt, senior planner with the City of 41 00:02:16,370 --> 00:02:22,159 Denton. So tonight I'm 42 00:02:22,159 --> 00:02:28,439 presenting Z1701 self-service storage. So the request 43 00:02:28,439 --> 00:02:29,879 before you is to consider a 44 00:02:29,879 --> 00:02:32,800 proposed revision to the Denton development code and that's 45 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:33,560 specifically 46 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:38,080 to amend subchapter 5 pertaining to the self storage use. I 47 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:38,960 just will clarify 48 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,539 that this request is from an outside party, it's not 49 00:02:42,539 --> 00:02:44,439 actually staff requesting 50 00:02:44,439 --> 00:02:48,460 this amendment and I forgot the applicant so if you want to 51 00:02:48,460 --> 00:02:50,000 expound. Yes, 52 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,919 absolutely and Chandrine is correct. So we were approached 53 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,479 by Mike Coker a few 54 00:02:56,479 --> 00:03:00,830 months ago in order to pursue a Denton development code 55 00:03:00,830 --> 00:03:02,900 amendment regarding the 56 00:03:02,900 --> 00:03:06,169 self storage use and in particular they wanted to amend it 57 00:03:06,169 --> 00:03:07,240 so that self storage 58 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:11,849 could be permitted in CMG and we said you know if you want 59 00:03:11,849 --> 00:03:14,159 to pursue that go 60 00:03:14,159 --> 00:03:18,479 ahead and do that the the background research and propose 61 00:03:18,479 --> 00:03:19,240 something to us and 62 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,509 we'll discuss it. So that's how we got to today. It wasn't 63 00:03:22,509 --> 00:03:23,680 staff initiated, it was 64 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,949 actually initiated by an outside group. To let you know 65 00:03:26,949 --> 00:03:28,520 what's currently required 66 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,300 in the Denton development code, self-service storage by 67 00:03:32,300 --> 00:03:33,280 definition is 68 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,879 the structure used for dead storage mainly of excess 69 00:03:35,879 --> 00:03:37,120 personal property of an 70 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,159 individual or family but also small amounts of goods or 71 00:03:40,159 --> 00:03:41,159 merchandise for 72 00:03:41,159 --> 00:03:46,830 businesses or individuals. Currently the code permits it in 73 00:03:46,830 --> 00:03:49,919 ECC, ECI, ICE and ICG 74 00:03:49,919 --> 00:03:53,800 and these are zoning districts that are typically either 75 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:54,520 employment 76 00:03:54,520 --> 00:04:00,310 or industrial use zoning districts and in fact the self 77 00:04:00,310 --> 00:04:02,479 storage use currently is 78 00:04:02,479 --> 00:04:06,439 in the industrial land use category within subchapter 5 of 79 00:04:06,439 --> 00:04:07,240 the Denton 80 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,800 development code so it follows the industrial site design 81 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,419 standards. So the 82 00:04:13,419 --> 00:04:16,699 applicant has made a proposal regarding the the Denton 83 00:04:16,699 --> 00:04:19,120 development code and 84 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,949 through this process we've been in discussions with them 85 00:04:23,949 --> 00:04:24,680 and the 86 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:26,980 proposal has changed some and we'll go over that but what 87 00:04:26,980 --> 00:04:28,240 they're proposing is 88 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,180 to relocate the self-service storage from the industrial 89 00:04:31,180 --> 00:04:32,759 land use category to 90 00:04:32,759 --> 00:04:36,240 the commercial land use category in all zoning districts. 91 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,079 They've also proposed a 92 00:04:38,079 --> 00:04:42,079 limitation 35 that pertains to self storage use and I'll go 93 00:04:42,079 --> 00:04:43,199 over those that 94 00:04:43,199 --> 00:04:48,069 all sides of the facility must be 100% masonry stone, 95 00:04:48,069 --> 00:04:48,800 architectural 96 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,730 concrete block with integrated color, a stucco or concrete 97 00:04:52,730 --> 00:04:53,959 tilt wall colored or 98 00:04:53,959 --> 00:04:58,680 stamped. The limitation on exterior materials is exclusive 99 00:04:58,680 --> 00:04:59,519 of fenestration 100 00:04:59,519 --> 00:05:02,519 such as doors, windows, or glass or entryway treatments and 101 00:05:02,519 --> 00:05:03,199 glass may not 102 00:05:03,199 --> 00:05:08,879 account for more than 70% of the exterior wall area. No 103 00:05:08,879 --> 00:05:09,680 overhead bay 104 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,959 doors and/or storage unit doors are permitted to be visible 105 00:05:13,959 --> 00:05:14,839 from adjacent 106 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,139 property or the public right of way. No outdoor storage is 107 00:05:18,139 --> 00:05:20,000 permitted. All 108 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,699 proposed fencing materials are limited to masonry or wr 109 00:05:22,699 --> 00:05:24,439 ought iron and then 110 00:05:24,439 --> 00:05:26,740 landscape buffers should be in accordance with sub chapter 111 00:05:26,740 --> 00:05:27,279 13 of the 112 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:31,680 Denton development code. Finally the proposal is to permit 113 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:32,560 the self storage 114 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:39,439 use in CMG district within SUP and limitation 35. Also with 115 00:05:39,439 --> 00:05:40,079 our discussions 116 00:05:40,079 --> 00:05:44,259 with them we added in to modify the ECC and ECI districts 117 00:05:44,259 --> 00:05:46,160 to require the SUP and 118 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,529 the L35 for self service storage. Currently that use is 119 00:05:49,529 --> 00:05:50,240 permitted without 120 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,839 any limitation. So the considerations that staff looked at 121 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:55,879 when we looked at 122 00:05:55,879 --> 00:05:58,759 their proposal is first of all we looked at what is CMG 123 00:05:58,759 --> 00:06:00,439 intended for. So CMG is 124 00:06:00,439 --> 00:06:04,170 a commercial mixed use zoning district. It's intended to 125 00:06:04,170 --> 00:06:04,560 provide the 126 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,829 retail, the employment, the service uses that the community 127 00:06:07,829 --> 00:06:09,720 needs. It's typically 128 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,449 found on arterial roadways, larger roadways, and also the 129 00:06:13,449 --> 00:06:14,439 intersection of 130 00:06:14,439 --> 00:06:18,480 local roads and arterial streets to provide adequate access 131 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,120 . When we look at 132 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:23,649 the actual use and we look at how it functions and what 133 00:06:23,649 --> 00:06:24,360 kind of things 134 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:29,550 happen on that on in association with that facility we 135 00:06:29,550 --> 00:06:30,279 determined that that 136 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,550 use you know typically doesn't produce substantial nuis 137 00:06:33,550 --> 00:06:34,800 ances such as light, noise 138 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,550 and traffic but it can have visual impacts and so in 139 00:06:38,550 --> 00:06:39,839 particularly in 140 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,930 commercial areas and so that's where that L35 comes in that 141 00:06:43,930 --> 00:06:45,000 it the enhanced 142 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,730 in exterior building materials the the commercial site 143 00:06:48,730 --> 00:06:50,720 design standards the 144 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,230 screening the buffers to mute those potential impacts and 145 00:06:54,230 --> 00:06:55,639 then also the SUP 146 00:06:55,639 --> 00:06:58,680 because those would be would then look a little deeper in 147 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,480 each specific request 148 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,209 and potentially result in site specific design and use 149 00:07:04,209 --> 00:07:05,879 conditions in accordance 150 00:07:05,879 --> 00:07:11,819 with subchapter 6 of the development code. Excuse me. When 151 00:07:11,819 --> 00:07:12,519 we look at the 152 00:07:12,519 --> 00:07:18,069 expansion of the SUP and the limit and the L35 requirements 153 00:07:18,069 --> 00:07:20,120 to the ECC and ECI 154 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:24,949 districts we looked at we looked at where they're located 155 00:07:24,949 --> 00:07:27,480 so and here's a 156 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:33,110 map here and the pink shows the CMG the blues show the ECC 157 00:07:33,110 --> 00:07:35,480 and ECI and then the 158 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,529 kind of purple or that are the industrial districts the ICG 159 00:07:38,529 --> 00:07:39,480 and ICE so as 160 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,459 you can see where the blue is it's often located and some 161 00:07:43,459 --> 00:07:44,439 of our gateway 162 00:07:44,439 --> 00:07:47,810 corridors or some of those really highly visible commercial 163 00:07:47,810 --> 00:07:49,199 corridors it's also 164 00:07:49,199 --> 00:07:52,240 located particularly here in the Shady Oaks area if I can 165 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:53,199 get my mouse to work 166 00:07:53,199 --> 00:07:56,720 adjacent to some residential areas so so we thought that it 167 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:58,120 would probably be a 168 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:02,220 good idea to go ahead and apply those the the limitation 169 00:08:02,220 --> 00:08:04,199 and the SUP to the 170 00:08:04,199 --> 00:08:07,930 use in these areas so that they develop in a way that's 171 00:08:07,930 --> 00:08:12,759 that is aesthetically 172 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,079 complimentary to the area and what we want to see in these 173 00:08:16,079 --> 00:08:17,279 corridors and as I 174 00:08:17,279 --> 00:08:21,990 said before the use is currently permitted by right when we 175 00:08:21,990 --> 00:08:23,000 also we also 176 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:28,959 looked at one other addition to the limitation and it's a 177 00:08:28,959 --> 00:08:29,639 recommendation 178 00:08:29,639 --> 00:08:34,039 we're actually making today so CMG district as I said is a 179 00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:34,639 mixed use 180 00:08:34,639 --> 00:08:37,690 commercial district but it is intended to develop with kind 181 00:08:37,690 --> 00:08:38,519 of a in a cohesive 182 00:08:38,519 --> 00:08:42,679 manner in a cohesive manner with pedestrian family mixed 183 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:43,519 use character 184 00:08:43,519 --> 00:08:47,279 and that includes a compact compact development pattern 185 00:08:47,279 --> 00:08:48,320 often when you see 186 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,820 the self-service storage you see kind of a larger footprint 187 00:08:51,820 --> 00:08:52,919 of that development 188 00:08:52,919 --> 00:08:57,330 with with long rows of the facility so people can access 189 00:08:57,330 --> 00:08:59,000 those those individual 190 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,820 storage units so in order to meet the intent of what CMG 191 00:09:03,820 --> 00:09:05,480 and what we want our 192 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,529 commercial centers to look like staff is request or is 193 00:09:09,529 --> 00:09:11,679 recommending a condition 194 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:15,940 on the on the approval in that L35 also include that all 195 00:09:15,940 --> 00:09:17,360 individually leased 196 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,799 storage units are contained within a larger climate control 197 00:09:21,799 --> 00:09:23,120 building we we 198 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,090 believe that this would encourage a compact development 199 00:09:25,090 --> 00:09:25,799 pattern that meets 200 00:09:25,799 --> 00:09:29,740 the intent of these commercial areas. I've got a question 201 00:09:29,740 --> 00:09:32,240 for you on that. Yes sir. 202 00:09:32,639 --> 00:09:36,379 With that limitation that any storage unit would have to be 203 00:09:36,379 --> 00:09:37,159 all of it within 204 00:09:37,159 --> 00:09:41,259 have to be climate controlled? Yes within within CMG and 205 00:09:41,259 --> 00:09:43,320 within the ECC and ECI 206 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,919 in ICG and ICE those would remain said would remain the 207 00:09:47,919 --> 00:09:49,639 same the use would be 208 00:09:49,639 --> 00:09:53,370 permitted no limitation no SUP requirement. So if they 209 00:09:53,370 --> 00:09:54,399 wanted to do one 210 00:09:54,399 --> 00:09:57,769 of those the whole thing has to be climate controlled not 211 00:09:57,769 --> 00:09:58,600 just a portion of 212 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:03,039 it? Yes sir. What what's besides trying to make it compact 213 00:10:03,039 --> 00:10:04,580 is there some reason 214 00:10:04,580 --> 00:10:07,049 that if it's climate control you feel like it's gonna make 215 00:10:07,049 --> 00:10:08,360 it smaller just 216 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,190 makes it taller? Yeah I think the climate control part is 217 00:10:11,190 --> 00:10:15,799 the wrong emphasis. The idea is to get it all in one 218 00:10:15,799 --> 00:10:19,320 building as opposed to being spread out over the whole lot. 219 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,879 We can if we can pull up an example of what that building 220 00:10:23,879 --> 00:10:25,840 type looks like you 221 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,279 can take a few minutes but that's the intent. CMG typically 222 00:10:30,279 --> 00:10:32,120 goes like Julie 223 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,120 showed on her map earlier it's usually next to residential 224 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:36,120 areas and so instead 225 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:42,129 of we want to keep the land use and the scale compatible 226 00:10:42,129 --> 00:10:43,320 with the residential 227 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,259 areas and so we feel like this type of design fits more 228 00:10:46,259 --> 00:10:47,639 appropriately at those 229 00:10:47,639 --> 00:10:52,350 areas than those huge warehouse type developments. Well 230 00:10:52,350 --> 00:10:53,679 while she's looking 231 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:55,980 that's kind of where I'm going is it the ones that I've 232 00:10:55,980 --> 00:10:56,840 seen when they do 233 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,960 climate controlled then they're smaller and taller and I 234 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:01,700 don't know what the 235 00:11:01,700 --> 00:11:05,279 height restriction is and if we're painting ourselves and 236 00:11:05,279 --> 00:11:06,279 now this has been 237 00:11:06,279 --> 00:11:10,179 an issue here recently before this Commission about height 238 00:11:10,179 --> 00:11:10,940 that we're 239 00:11:10,940 --> 00:11:14,909 looking at this instead of having single-story cell storage 240 00:11:14,909 --> 00:11:15,879 now we've got 241 00:11:15,879 --> 00:11:19,960 five-story cell storage buildings because we have to be 242 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:21,679 climate controlled so is 243 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,549 there a height limitation? CMG should be a hundred feet 244 00:11:25,549 --> 00:11:28,360 right? 65 feet. Okay I've 245 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:35,679 gone the wrong way we're now in the United States. I was so 246 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:36,799 close. 247 00:11:36,799 --> 00:11:40,000 All right hold on I've heard its feelings now let me try 248 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:40,720 again I'm just 249 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:52,509 going to start over. I was going there next. Let's see if I 250 00:11:52,509 --> 00:11:58,799 can. Right there on the railroad tracks. 251 00:11:58,799 --> 00:12:05,090 All right so here is a cell storage use this is in one of 252 00:12:05,090 --> 00:12:06,399 our communities 253 00:12:06,399 --> 00:12:11,070 nearby in Denton County and it is contained in a in a 254 00:12:11,070 --> 00:12:12,519 structure all of all 255 00:12:12,519 --> 00:12:19,620 of the those those individual units. Can you do since you 256 00:12:19,620 --> 00:12:21,600 're in yeah I was just 257 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,139 saying can you give us a perfect because I looked at it 258 00:12:24,139 --> 00:12:25,360 earlier it's not fully 259 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,620 built but you can kind of see what it when it's gonna look 260 00:12:29,620 --> 00:12:33,240 like. It is yes sir. 261 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:41,200 Commissioner else was next. Thank you chair. While I was 262 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:41,919 gonna kind of echo 263 00:12:41,919 --> 00:12:44,960 some thoughts I understand where you're trying to go with 264 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:45,480 it with a smaller 265 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,830 footprint but it seems to to not be a good thing if we're 266 00:12:49,830 --> 00:12:51,639 talking about CMG 267 00:12:51,639 --> 00:12:55,200 being near these houses then we're really requesting with 268 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,200 your amendment 269 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:00,370 to to the applicants request having these buildings be 270 00:13:00,370 --> 00:13:02,120 forced up which doesn't 271 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,539 seem complementary to a residential neighborhood in my 272 00:13:05,539 --> 00:13:07,480 opinion. This 273 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,639 particular structure I know exactly where this is and what 274 00:13:11,639 --> 00:13:12,919 it looks like I 275 00:13:12,919 --> 00:13:16,309 think it's a monstrosity first of all it sticks out like a 276 00:13:16,309 --> 00:13:18,320 sore thumb to me but 277 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,769 it's also the houses are across the street maybe those are 278 00:13:22,769 --> 00:13:23,960 the closest ones 279 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:28,470 but the ones behind it are not that close to the structure. 280 00:13:28,470 --> 00:13:29,399 Well I get there's 281 00:13:29,399 --> 00:13:34,889 well okay yeah yeah okay yeah those right there it's a big 282 00:13:34,889 --> 00:13:37,360 structure this is 283 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,090 a bigger structure than I would feel comfortable building 284 00:13:41,090 --> 00:13:41,960 in in front of 285 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,909 someone's home. And the grain at CMG already allows the 65 286 00:13:45,909 --> 00:13:47,000 feet and that's 287 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:52,720 typically about five stories maybe. Commissioner Tyler. 288 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,519 Thank you chair so 289 00:13:54,519 --> 00:13:58,389 this isn't I don't really feel like this is a very typical 290 00:13:58,389 --> 00:13:59,600 example it's a very 291 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,970 small parcel and a wedged in in a residential area most of 292 00:14:02,970 --> 00:14:04,320 the time CMG 293 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,980 we try and it's often 10 or 20 or 40 acres at a time. Can 294 00:14:08,980 --> 00:14:10,159 we look at the the 295 00:14:10,159 --> 00:14:13,889 storage unit out on 380 I believe it's a climate controlled 296 00:14:13,889 --> 00:14:14,399 and I think it is 297 00:14:14,399 --> 00:14:20,470 like five stories it's a pretty tall one near 380 and Pal 298 00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:22,120 oma Creek, Navajo Road 299 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:27,960 area. It's huge. Yeah and again this is this is probably an 300 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,320 even larger one just 301 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:35,600 for scale if you zoom in right there. It does. Oh my 302 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:42,120 goodness. I'm so sorry. Try it. See if we can get the 303 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:43,320 address. 304 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:50,230 26 740 East University Drive. I just do it by address. What 305 00:14:50,230 --> 00:14:55,000 was it 24? 26 740 East 306 00:14:55,000 --> 00:15:18,879 380 Aubrey. And then straight view. So I do feel like this 307 00:15:18,879 --> 00:15:19,320 would be a more 308 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,149 typical installation it's got like the Walmart and the 309 00:15:22,149 --> 00:15:23,799 strip center nearby that 310 00:15:23,799 --> 00:15:28,519 would be what we're aiming for in a CMG zoning district. 311 00:15:32,519 --> 00:15:42,000 It didn't get okay. And so that's the it's a tall building 312 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:43,799 it isn't looming 313 00:15:43,799 --> 00:15:46,679 over houses here though and it is you know surrounded by 314 00:15:46,679 --> 00:15:47,679 strip centers and 315 00:15:47,679 --> 00:15:54,399 retail. There's one more on University I'm sorry Fort Worth 316 00:15:54,399 --> 00:15:57,159 Drive and 35 in 317 00:15:57,159 --> 00:16:03,330 Denton. It's also four or five stories I think. Yeah the U- 318 00:16:03,330 --> 00:16:05,519 Haul. Is it just three stories? 319 00:16:05,519 --> 00:16:12,559 And so in this case this one is I believe mostly masonry. 320 00:16:12,559 --> 00:16:16,120 The one on I-35 is 321 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,059 metal building right. My understanding is if I remember it 322 00:16:19,059 --> 00:16:22,840 's a metal building. So 323 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:27,480 these are kind of the standard form. If you don't have just 324 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:28,960 a sprawling you 325 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:31,789 know long rows of buildings kind of like this stuff around 326 00:16:31,789 --> 00:16:33,240 the all storage there. 327 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,950 The standard form is a probably a three or four story kind 328 00:16:37,950 --> 00:16:40,200 of big concrete block 329 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:44,549 building. So I don't know that if the goal is to avoid 330 00:16:44,549 --> 00:16:48,159 these sprawling long row 331 00:16:48,159 --> 00:16:52,289 buildings like is visible here you know I think that that 332 00:16:52,289 --> 00:16:53,639 climate control does do 333 00:16:53,639 --> 00:16:56,289 it. It kind of does it indirectly by by forcing them into 334 00:16:56,289 --> 00:16:57,799 an efficient design in 335 00:16:57,799 --> 00:17:03,419 one big building. But this isn't atypical. Commissioner 336 00:17:03,419 --> 00:17:05,359 Beck. Thank you chair. Yeah 337 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,319 I think the other thing too that we have going for us is 338 00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:11,000 the SUP. So if we get 339 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:16,099 into a neighborhood neighborhood I think the SUP would put 340 00:17:16,099 --> 00:17:18,079 limits on height. We 341 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:22,910 could do that is that correct? But the CMGs tend to be I 342 00:17:22,910 --> 00:17:24,559 think as you mentioned 343 00:17:24,559 --> 00:17:27,609 along major arterials. So yeah you're gonna have one area 344 00:17:27,609 --> 00:17:28,680 where you're gonna 345 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,839 have tall buildings anyway. It's it's kind of set up for 346 00:17:31,839 --> 00:17:32,880 that though there may 347 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:37,160 be houses behind it but like this one seems appropriate 348 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:38,960 because it is run along 349 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,549 380 where you're gonna have businesses that it's probably z 350 00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:43,440 oned where it would 351 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:50,000 allow 60 and 65 foot heights. So but I think if we got into 352 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:50,960 just a pure 353 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,690 neighborhood if a CMG was there and I'm not sure I see that 354 00:17:54,690 --> 00:17:55,960 on any of these right 355 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,410 here but I hadn't looked closely then I think the SUP would 356 00:17:59,410 --> 00:18:00,519 be protective of 357 00:18:00,519 --> 00:18:06,009 that neighborhood. Just some thoughts. Commissioner Ellis. 358 00:18:06,009 --> 00:18:06,759 Thank you chair. 359 00:18:06,759 --> 00:18:10,490 Well I'll respond to that Commissioner Beck. I think the 360 00:18:10,490 --> 00:18:11,519 issue with that is it 361 00:18:11,519 --> 00:18:14,890 may not make the project feasible for an applicant at that 362 00:18:14,890 --> 00:18:17,079 point. We could ask 363 00:18:17,079 --> 00:18:21,049 the SUP to come down but if their footprint is so small and 364 00:18:21,049 --> 00:18:21,799 it has to be 365 00:18:21,799 --> 00:18:24,970 all climate controlled and enclosed then their project 366 00:18:24,970 --> 00:18:26,640 might not work if we don't 367 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,680 let them build it to a specific height to have the number 368 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:30,920 of units they need to 369 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:35,779 make their project work. Julie I guess I want to ask how 370 00:18:35,779 --> 00:18:37,559 you came up with this 371 00:18:37,559 --> 00:18:41,640 requirement. I mean other than the smaller footprint can 372 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:42,960 you elaborate a 373 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,720 little bit more? It really is because you know CMG 374 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:48,160 districts I think it was 375 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:52,029 Commissioner Taylor that these are typically 20 to 40 acres 376 00:18:52,029 --> 00:18:52,519 they're 377 00:18:52,519 --> 00:18:55,369 intended to be mixed use and to provide lots of different 378 00:18:55,369 --> 00:18:56,480 uses within it so that 379 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,349 someone within the community could go there and park once 380 00:19:00,349 --> 00:19:01,319 and walk around and 381 00:19:01,319 --> 00:19:05,049 and do their shopping and do the things that they need. So 382 00:19:05,049 --> 00:19:06,480 we want to make sure 383 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,240 that the design standards and that it that it's designed in 384 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,079 a way that permits 385 00:19:12,079 --> 00:19:17,440 lots of uses within it and that also shrinks that footprint 386 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:18,359 . So that was 387 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,299 really the intent was the how we want these commercial 388 00:19:22,299 --> 00:19:23,880 mixed use centers to 389 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:28,319 develop in going forward. Yeah that's correct and then to 390 00:19:28,319 --> 00:19:29,359 emphasize we want to 391 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:34,309 keep them walkable too so if you start sprawling out with 392 00:19:34,309 --> 00:19:35,440 these with the 393 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,599 individual units it makes it a little bit more difficult to 394 00:19:38,599 --> 00:19:39,559 design it in that 395 00:19:39,559 --> 00:19:44,900 way. Well on that note though it I mean you can't really 396 00:19:44,900 --> 00:19:45,720 walk to a storage 397 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:47,750 facility I mean you're gonna have to bring your car and I 398 00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:48,440 mean if you're if 399 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,519 you're bringing things out of it or delivering things to it 400 00:19:51,519 --> 00:19:52,200 you're gonna 401 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,720 have a vehicle so that I'm not sure walkability with a 402 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,160 storage unit I mean I 403 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,890 understand that it's part of the CMG I guess with this type 404 00:20:00,890 --> 00:20:02,160 of development I 405 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,599 don't think that really. Sure but in thinking of that 406 00:20:05,599 --> 00:20:06,960 development as part of 407 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,829 a larger development so that it wouldn't be like a 408 00:20:09,829 --> 00:20:11,240 standalone it would it would be 409 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:16,359 part of a larger center. But this the requirement does I 410 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:17,839 mean it does force 411 00:20:17,839 --> 00:20:22,960 the building up higher effectively to make a project work. 412 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:23,279 Yes ma'am. 413 00:20:23,279 --> 00:20:27,799 Commissioner Hussbuth. This may be a legal question do we 414 00:20:27,799 --> 00:20:29,599 can we ask the 415 00:20:29,599 --> 00:20:33,509 applicant questions I mean because traditionally or not 416 00:20:33,509 --> 00:20:34,279 that I don't know 417 00:20:34,279 --> 00:20:38,069 if it's applicant or the genesis of the whatever it is but 418 00:20:38,069 --> 00:20:39,039 can we ask them 419 00:20:39,039 --> 00:20:42,569 questions in this environment normally we would in a if 420 00:20:42,569 --> 00:20:44,319 staff or that 421 00:20:44,319 --> 00:20:47,880 originated something then we'd ask staff questions at this 422 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,759 point to find out 423 00:20:50,759 --> 00:20:54,269 before we go into open. Since this is just a clarification 424 00:20:54,269 --> 00:20:55,480 item it would be 425 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,430 better to have that in regular session. I'm assuming they 426 00:20:59,430 --> 00:21:00,480 're going to be in 427 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:06,200 attendance. Yes the applicant's here. Commissioner Taylor. 428 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:10,079 Thank you. So I think 429 00:21:10,079 --> 00:21:13,759 for compatibility in CMG this is going to be next to Kroger 430 00:21:13,759 --> 00:21:14,640 or in the strip 431 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,859 center or right behind the strip center maybe and I do 432 00:21:17,859 --> 00:21:19,400 think that those you need 433 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,529 a more compact use it's really easy to park real estate 434 00:21:23,529 --> 00:21:25,319 with a storage unit a 435 00:21:25,319 --> 00:21:28,019 set of storage units because you get a nice little cash 436 00:21:28,019 --> 00:21:29,079 flow pretty cheap to 437 00:21:29,079 --> 00:21:32,250 build and you know you can have it parked there for 10 or 438 00:21:32,250 --> 00:21:33,319 20 years with 439 00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:35,619 cash flow and then when you have a real purpose or a real 440 00:21:35,619 --> 00:21:36,240 buyer for your 441 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,970 property you can you can easily demolish the one-story 442 00:21:39,970 --> 00:21:41,119 metal or masonry 443 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,849 buildings and you know sell it for some other retail use 444 00:21:44,849 --> 00:21:45,920 and I don't think we 445 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:53,200 want to encourage that in CMG. I think that honestly the EC 446 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,160 I the blue area off 447 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,890 Dallas Drive there that's an artifact of that used to be an 448 00:21:58,890 --> 00:21:59,640 industrial area of 449 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,720 town that's right next to residential so saying we want to 450 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:04,440 have that 451 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,099 protection there where most of the time ECI is rather 452 00:22:07,099 --> 00:22:08,279 industrial in nature 453 00:22:08,279 --> 00:22:14,099 commercial at least you know you've got a power plant the 454 00:22:14,099 --> 00:22:15,759 area around the 455 00:22:15,759 --> 00:22:20,220 hazardous waste treatment facility the you know those are 456 00:22:20,220 --> 00:22:21,839 all surrounding the 457 00:22:21,839 --> 00:22:26,420 dark blue but they're all that ECI EC whatever the other 458 00:22:26,420 --> 00:22:29,960 category ECE ECC so I 459 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,569 could see it being more appropriate to have the single- 460 00:22:34,569 --> 00:22:35,440 story non air 461 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,569 conditioned units out off Mayhill Road or out off 462 00:22:38,569 --> 00:22:41,599 University near safety clean I 463 00:22:41,599 --> 00:22:47,089 think of anywhere that is CMG now it's it's going to 464 00:22:47,089 --> 00:22:48,799 eventually be a 465 00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:52,019 neighborhood shopping center and that's where you don't 466 00:22:52,019 --> 00:22:54,119 want 10 acres of one 467 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:58,539 story on air-conditioned cement block buildings you know 468 00:22:58,539 --> 00:22:59,880 you want you want 469 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:04,079 probably a nicer retail look there to keep the value in the 470 00:23:04,079 --> 00:23:05,400 area and you know 471 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,230 keep from being this thing that the neighborhood like like 472 00:23:08,230 --> 00:23:08,880 the Kroger on 473 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,349 University I don't think you put storage units and you were 474 00:23:11,349 --> 00:23:12,119 there because it's so 475 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:16,500 built out but people do walk to that Kroger or to that 476 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:17,119 shopping center to the 477 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,450 movie Tavern from the neighborhoods and if they had to walk 478 00:23:19,450 --> 00:23:20,400 past 10 acres of 479 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,539 squat buildings it would just it would be an impediment to 480 00:23:24,539 --> 00:23:25,880 getting to the movie 481 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,740 Tavern or getting to the Kroger so those are my thoughts on 482 00:23:30,740 --> 00:23:32,960 on this limitation 483 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,329 Commissioner Roseau thank you I have a couple points of 484 00:23:36,329 --> 00:23:37,359 what's been discussed 485 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,089 but before that I had some questions about the requirements 486 00:23:41,089 --> 00:23:44,160 initially on here 487 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,640 it says number two glass may not account for more than 70% 488 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:48,799 of the exterior and 489 00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:52,529 then the very next point is no overhead bay doors may be 490 00:23:52,529 --> 00:23:53,839 visible from an adjacent 491 00:23:53,839 --> 00:23:58,119 property or the streets it seemed contradicting and when I 492 00:23:58,119 --> 00:23:58,519 looked through 493 00:23:58,519 --> 00:24:01,440 the other attached applicants applications that the 494 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:02,599 applicant provided 495 00:24:02,599 --> 00:24:06,329 they've never done that before they never suggested both of 496 00:24:06,329 --> 00:24:07,119 those be on the 497 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,950 same one so McKinney has a requirement that no one should 498 00:24:09,950 --> 00:24:10,960 see a bay door but 499 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,329 they don't have a glass requirement and flower mound like 500 00:24:14,329 --> 00:24:15,000 we just saw has a 501 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,579 glass maximum but no unit visibility requirement and the 502 00:24:19,579 --> 00:24:20,759 two that we've seen 503 00:24:20,759 --> 00:24:25,329 tonight you can see storage unit doors in both those so the 504 00:24:25,329 --> 00:24:25,880 one on flower 505 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:30,809 mountain 249 and 380 and the u-haul on I-35 you can see 506 00:24:30,809 --> 00:24:31,559 right through the glass 507 00:24:31,559 --> 00:24:35,289 to the unit so I'm trying to wonder how in the world can 508 00:24:35,289 --> 00:24:36,799 you build a building of 509 00:24:36,799 --> 00:24:40,960 70% windows and not see a bay door maybe I should clarify 510 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,839 it can be up to 70% 511 00:24:42,839 --> 00:24:45,990 windows so they could if they've got a if they've got an 512 00:24:45,990 --> 00:24:47,200 entrance feature on 513 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:52,130 the front where somebody walks in they can have 70% windows 514 00:24:52,130 --> 00:24:52,920 on that front 515 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,079 facade but but it couldn't be none of the bay doors 516 00:24:56,079 --> 00:24:59,640 interior could be face out 517 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,059 from there so they would have to they would have to design 518 00:25:03,059 --> 00:25:04,240 their building so 519 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,410 that any of those bay doors could not be facing toward the 520 00:25:07,410 --> 00:25:08,700 street through those 521 00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:13,450 windows okay maybe it'd be helpful if the applicant could 522 00:25:13,450 --> 00:25:15,119 show just helpful to me 523 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:19,980 a McKinney project that there's no visible doors it seems 524 00:25:19,980 --> 00:25:20,519 like it just be a 525 00:25:20,519 --> 00:25:24,869 brick wall facing the street I can't visualize a self- 526 00:25:24,869 --> 00:25:26,759 service storage that 527 00:25:26,759 --> 00:25:31,240 doesn't show the bay doors to the street 528 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,880 there's no windows on the upper stories I guess I was 529 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:41,880 thinking more than a 530 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,250 day thank you I was thinking more on the ground level the 531 00:25:44,250 --> 00:25:45,920 doors so I don't know 532 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,750 if yeah I guess if you're saying you're looking through a 533 00:25:48,750 --> 00:25:49,720 window and seeing a 534 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,119 door was that prohibited they would have to design their 535 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,559 their project so that no 536 00:25:55,559 --> 00:25:59,099 doors could be visible through those windows I guess that's 537 00:25:59,099 --> 00:26:00,160 limitation would 538 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,990 have put I just it seems like a pretty strange limitation 539 00:26:02,990 --> 00:26:03,839 for self storage 540 00:26:03,839 --> 00:26:06,549 units that I've never seen before and I haven't seen an 541 00:26:06,549 --> 00:26:08,400 example of one I don't 542 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,839 know the aesthetics either way but this wouldn't even with 543 00:26:11,839 --> 00:26:12,519 an SUP wouldn't it 544 00:26:12,519 --> 00:26:16,250 doesn't so I guess we could override bay doors being 545 00:26:16,250 --> 00:26:18,079 visible it just seems odd 546 00:26:18,079 --> 00:26:19,799 to me when I was reading that because I've never I've never 547 00:26:19,799 --> 00:26:20,400 seen that before 548 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,700 I don't know how aesthetically it looks to make that 549 00:26:22,700 --> 00:26:24,640 requirement and again they've 550 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,009 never the applicant hasn't done that in the city prior to 551 00:26:28,009 --> 00:26:30,119 put both of those seems 552 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,309 like they're encouraging a lot of windows but he had the 553 00:26:32,309 --> 00:26:33,559 same time I don't know 554 00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:38,009 where you put those windows in the project but going to 555 00:26:38,009 --> 00:26:39,160 what has been 556 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,039 talked about a little bit more in terms of the zoning I had 557 00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:42,119 a question did the 558 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,200 applicant come to the city with just the CMG requests or 559 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:46,880 did they also did they 560 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,609 request the ECC or ECI in staffs discussion with the 561 00:26:50,609 --> 00:26:52,039 applicant we 562 00:26:52,039 --> 00:26:55,500 suggested we recommended the ECC and ECI due to the 563 00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:57,240 location of those zoning 564 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,970 districts on a lot of our gateway corridors and and and in 565 00:27:00,970 --> 00:27:01,640 some of our 566 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,029 high visibility areas so that was that was something with 567 00:27:05,029 --> 00:27:06,319 our discussion with 568 00:27:06,319 --> 00:27:08,640 the applicant yeah I guess going back to my thoughts from 569 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,039 last meeting about city 570 00:27:10,039 --> 00:27:14,319 looking for opportunities just add SUPs to zoning areas I'm 571 00:27:14,319 --> 00:27:15,400 not I'm not for 572 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,269 someone coming in and saying we want to kind of free up CMG 573 00:27:19,269 --> 00:27:20,599 category so we can 574 00:27:20,599 --> 00:27:22,569 do some more things in that in the city like oh well now 575 00:27:22,569 --> 00:27:23,559 that we've done this we 576 00:27:23,559 --> 00:27:27,089 can kind of shoehorn in it seems more requirements for SUPs 577 00:27:27,089 --> 00:27:27,960 to be put into 578 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,259 other zoning requirements where by right they can go ahead 579 00:27:30,259 --> 00:27:31,000 and build and 580 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,869 to Commissioner Taylor's point it seems like it's a decent 581 00:27:34,869 --> 00:27:36,519 use case to have 582 00:27:36,519 --> 00:27:40,089 used to call them squat buildings you know I know I'm sorry 583 00:27:40,089 --> 00:27:41,440 the one-story metal 584 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:47,430 buildings on ECC and ECI so I'm not totally on board with 585 00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:48,440 the city just 586 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,170 deciding that we should go ahead and add more SUP 587 00:27:52,170 --> 00:27:53,920 requirements to zoning so those 588 00:27:53,920 --> 00:28:00,339 were my thoughts on this thus far well I'll echo 589 00:28:00,339 --> 00:28:03,880 Commissioner Roselle's 590 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,740 comments I was going to come back to the SUP requirement 591 00:28:08,740 --> 00:28:09,960 being added and in 592 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:15,670 several of these zoning categories it's almost like where 593 00:28:15,670 --> 00:28:17,160 we were last meeting 594 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,279 in the multifamily of we're kind of painting with a broad 595 00:28:20,279 --> 00:28:20,960 brush that 596 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:27,599 everything is an SUP over the top of it I would be in favor 597 00:28:27,599 --> 00:28:29,519 of doing the SUP but 598 00:28:29,519 --> 00:28:33,880 I am concerned about the L35 because I think it's going to 599 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:35,440 create some of the 600 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:40,630 very things that this Commission has had a big issue with 601 00:28:40,630 --> 00:28:42,279 the last several 602 00:28:42,279 --> 00:28:45,430 meetings about having very tall structures right next to 603 00:28:45,430 --> 00:28:46,200 residential 604 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,569 areas and so I think it's almost contradictory that we 605 00:28:49,569 --> 00:28:50,759 require them to be 606 00:28:50,759 --> 00:28:54,190 air-conditioned to make some tall and then they're right 607 00:28:54,190 --> 00:28:55,480 next to residential 608 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,589 and we have an SUP and then people are gonna be I don't 609 00:28:58,589 --> 00:28:59,599 want a 65 story or 65 610 00:28:59,599 --> 00:29:04,109 foot tall building looking in my backyard we required to be 611 00:29:04,109 --> 00:29:04,759 air-conditioned 612 00:29:04,759 --> 00:29:07,470 and then people want to say well I don't want it to be 613 00:29:07,470 --> 00:29:08,880 three stories I want over 614 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:13,440 35 feet tall well to Commissioner else's point then it's 615 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:14,400 not feasible to build 616 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,130 and how do we get around all of this stuff versus you just 617 00:29:18,130 --> 00:29:19,279 have an SUP on it 618 00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:24,390 you get to have a say in the design and the aesthetics of 619 00:29:24,390 --> 00:29:25,559 the building without 620 00:29:25,559 --> 00:29:30,839 the L35 so give me some feedback on if we pull the L35 out 621 00:29:30,839 --> 00:29:32,319 and just keep an SUP 622 00:29:32,319 --> 00:29:39,279 on that if that gives the potential applicant a little more 623 00:29:39,279 --> 00:29:40,359 flexibility 624 00:29:40,359 --> 00:29:44,390 without that requirement that is certainly something that 625 00:29:44,390 --> 00:29:46,000 you could have 626 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,829 as part of your recommendation and these were these were 627 00:29:50,829 --> 00:29:51,839 the limitation was 628 00:29:51,839 --> 00:29:54,150 designed based upon somewhat other cities have been done 629 00:29:54,150 --> 00:29:54,799 based upon the 630 00:29:54,799 --> 00:29:57,960 benchmark analysis it was also something that the applicant 631 00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:58,960 many of those were 632 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:04,450 things that they had as part of their requests so so we 633 00:30:04,450 --> 00:30:08,279 felt like the L35 634 00:30:08,279 --> 00:30:12,569 allowed the property or required the use to develop in a 635 00:30:12,569 --> 00:30:13,759 more commercial way 636 00:30:13,759 --> 00:30:18,359 less industrial use less industrial look particularly since 637 00:30:18,359 --> 00:30:19,559 if it was going in a 638 00:30:19,559 --> 00:30:24,500 commercial area we would want it to look be designed in a 639 00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:25,720 way that was that was 640 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:32,009 in a commercial aesthetic so so that was the intent of L35 641 00:30:32,009 --> 00:30:32,680 in order to 642 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,769 encourage those those facilities to to be able to fit in 643 00:30:35,769 --> 00:30:37,079 with the character of 644 00:30:37,079 --> 00:30:40,349 what a commercial area is intended to look like. But we can 645 00:30:40,349 --> 00:30:41,440 't do that with the 646 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:47,440 SUP? Well and I think the SUP is then is an additional 647 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,119 layer that would look as I 648 00:30:49,119 --> 00:30:52,509 think Commissioner Beck said is look at as a site specific 649 00:30:52,509 --> 00:30:53,400 and so if there was 650 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,960 something unique to the character of that particular area 651 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:57,920 there would be there 652 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,289 could be additional conditions but just as a baseline to 653 00:31:01,289 --> 00:31:02,279 have it develop in a 654 00:31:02,279 --> 00:31:04,299 commercial way was the intent of the limit. I think I'm 655 00:31:04,299 --> 00:31:04,920 gonna quit asking 656 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,000 questions I can see that then you can tell I'm getting 657 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,839 nervous. I can see you're getting nervous. I just want to 658 00:31:10,839 --> 00:31:14,190 make a point of order in that. We need to save this for 659 00:31:14,190 --> 00:31:16,990 public session because this is getting a little bit further 660 00:31:16,990 --> 00:31:18,599 in or a lot further in 661 00:31:18,599 --> 00:31:22,710 then clarification is on the agenda. Commissioner Rossell 662 00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:23,319 do you have a 663 00:31:23,319 --> 00:31:26,029 clarification we have deeper discussion. I had a question 664 00:31:26,029 --> 00:31:27,000 for you and then maybe 665 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,349 legal can stop me my tracks it's it seems it seems like you 666 00:31:31,349 --> 00:31:32,960 were asking or 667 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:38,369 potentially suggesting remove the L35 as a way to ease the 668 00:31:38,369 --> 00:31:39,960 the pushback of height 669 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,829 requirement but there's no high requirement in L35 so when 670 00:31:43,829 --> 00:31:44,640 we still have 671 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,200 the same kind of pushback when we have the SUP hearing. 672 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,759 Well I guess can we 673 00:31:49,759 --> 00:31:52,140 discuss this you want to talk about it in public? I think 674 00:31:52,140 --> 00:31:52,880 that we should talk 675 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,849 about this in public. Okay. This is something they'll want 676 00:31:54,849 --> 00:31:58,400 to argue. Sorry to get us off track. Thank you. 677 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,099 Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. Let me just throw 678 00:32:01,099 --> 00:32:02,559 something out there you know for 679 00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:06,289 the concerns here about looks and everything. How many 680 00:32:06,289 --> 00:32:07,680 times have you driven past the 681 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:12,480 one on 380 35 and the other one and it bothered you that 682 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:13,559 you saw what you saw 683 00:32:13,559 --> 00:32:16,619 there did you even think about it also just I understand 684 00:32:16,619 --> 00:32:18,000 the concerns there and 685 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,940 there probably would be some concerns with neighbors but I 686 00:32:20,940 --> 00:32:22,839 've driven past those 687 00:32:22,839 --> 00:32:25,990 facilities and never thought about them twice the way they 688 00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:27,400 are so just just for 689 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:40,690 what it's worth. Any other questions for Julie? Thank you. 690 00:32:40,690 --> 00:32:43,960 The next two items C and D 691 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,480 have been post well actually item C has been withdrawn by 692 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,519 the applicant and then 693 00:32:49,519 --> 00:32:52,200 item D is being postponed there's a request from the 694 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,400 applicant to postpone 695 00:32:53,400 --> 00:33:01,130 it to the April 26th meeting. So I guess with that we have 696 00:33:01,130 --> 00:33:03,000 item E which is a 697 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:11,640 Zahni request for the cube properties. All right this is Z 698 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:16,240 1630. Okay so the subject 699 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,809 property is located on mid-block on Neff Street just north 700 00:33:20,809 --> 00:33:22,240 of Greenlee. It's 701 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:29,000 situated south of UNT campus between UNT and I-35. The 702 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,440 request is to 703 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:36,079 consider a rezoning from downtown Residual 1, DR 1 to DR 2 704 00:33:36,079 --> 00:33:40,039 district. The 705 00:33:40,039 --> 00:33:43,000 subject property does have a zoning designation of DR 1. 706 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,799 The proposed use is 707 00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:47,410 multifamily and it's not permitted within DR 1 so the 708 00:33:47,410 --> 00:33:48,119 applicant is 709 00:33:48,119 --> 00:33:54,700 requesting to rezone to DR 2. So when we look at the 710 00:33:54,700 --> 00:33:57,680 subject property and and the 711 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,920 adjacent land uses is in zoning within a kind of a 200 foot 712 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,039 boundary so if we zoom 713 00:34:03,039 --> 00:34:05,940 in close to the subject property and what's around it we 714 00:34:05,940 --> 00:34:07,400 can see that as I 715 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,719 said before the property is is mid-block on Neff Street and 716 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,079 it is surrounded by 717 00:34:13,079 --> 00:34:19,460 DR 1. The properties to the north to to the east and to the 718 00:34:19,460 --> 00:34:20,719 west are in south 719 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,590 are all DR 1 and they're developed with single-family homes 720 00:34:24,590 --> 00:34:26,880 and also duplexes. A 721 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:31,389 little further out you have DR 2 district along Avenue A 722 00:34:31,389 --> 00:34:32,000 and you have 723 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,219 that's being currently being developed with multifamily and 724 00:34:35,219 --> 00:34:36,199 then you also have 725 00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:40,239 DCG district with it which is developed with multifamily. 726 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:41,699 When we zoom out a 727 00:34:41,699 --> 00:34:45,480 little further so around 500 feet from the subject property 728 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:46,500 the surrounding 729 00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:50,730 neighborhood comes a little more into focus and as you can 730 00:34:50,730 --> 00:34:52,039 see so once again 731 00:34:52,039 --> 00:34:55,769 here's the subject properties you can see the streets 732 00:34:55,769 --> 00:34:57,320 surrounding it have a 733 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,639 zoning designation of DR 1 and it's a pretty consistent 734 00:35:01,639 --> 00:35:02,920 zoning designation 735 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:07,320 within the heart of the neighborhood. On the edges there 736 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:08,360 have there is zoning as 737 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:13,610 I said the DR 2 and the DCG which which do have multifamily 738 00:35:13,610 --> 00:35:14,920 development also 739 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,969 along I-35 there's some commercial development also an 740 00:35:17,969 --> 00:35:18,760 institutional 741 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:25,300 facility. And then when we look at the larger area we see 742 00:35:25,300 --> 00:35:26,920 now now UNT comes 743 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,679 into view as well as that highway corridor and you can see 744 00:35:30,679 --> 00:35:31,519 how all that 745 00:35:31,519 --> 00:35:34,420 zoning fits together so we've got this this area right here 746 00:35:34,420 --> 00:35:35,619 that has the DR 1 747 00:35:35,619 --> 00:35:40,659 zoning with the subject property the the DR 2 and DCG along 748 00:35:40,659 --> 00:35:42,079 Avenue A along as in 749 00:35:42,079 --> 00:35:47,960 also on the on the larger corridors near UNT. But at the 750 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,559 block level it is it does 751 00:35:50,559 --> 00:35:54,289 have a really consistent zoning pattern of DR 1 and when 752 00:35:54,289 --> 00:35:55,719 staff looked at it we 753 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,780 felt that DR 2 would introduce a new zoning district into 754 00:35:59,780 --> 00:36:00,840 that existing 755 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,670 cohesive pattern. I mean it would break the continuity of 756 00:36:03,670 --> 00:36:05,239 the zoning and create 757 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:09,210 an isolated zoning district. This could potentially result 758 00:36:09,210 --> 00:36:09,440 in some in 759 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,309 incompatible development at the block level and on this 760 00:36:13,309 --> 00:36:15,599 particular street. When 761 00:36:15,599 --> 00:36:17,989 we looked at the future land use map this is neighborhood 762 00:36:17,989 --> 00:36:18,559 university 763 00:36:18,559 --> 00:36:21,650 compatible area I know we're all getting very familiar with 764 00:36:21,650 --> 00:36:23,480 this area and and 765 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,210 this is one of those areas that we want to see compatible 766 00:36:27,210 --> 00:36:28,880 form between that 767 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,960 serves the university as well as the neighborhood areas and 768 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:32,880 that density and 769 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,329 commercial development within this area are often 770 00:36:37,329 --> 00:36:40,039 appropriate and something that 771 00:36:40,039 --> 00:36:44,210 that we want to see within this area. However because of 772 00:36:44,210 --> 00:36:45,119 this really 773 00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:49,070 consistent zoning around this subject property and and the 774 00:36:49,070 --> 00:36:50,079 fact that it's 775 00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:57,429 developed consistent with that DR 1 DR 2 would introduce 776 00:36:57,429 --> 00:36:59,440 that new development 777 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,530 pattern and potentially compromise the integrity of this 778 00:37:02,530 --> 00:37:03,639 existing neighborhood. 779 00:37:03,639 --> 00:37:07,369 So really that current zoning pattern and just how cohesive 780 00:37:07,369 --> 00:37:07,679 and 781 00:37:07,679 --> 00:37:11,889 compatible is really lends itself to maintaining that DR 1 782 00:37:11,889 --> 00:37:12,920 zoning district. 783 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:17,380 I'm looking at some of those uses I know there's a 784 00:37:17,380 --> 00:37:20,079 comprehensive list of uses in 785 00:37:20,079 --> 00:37:25,030 your backup we'll just look at the at the variations. DR 1 786 00:37:25,030 --> 00:37:26,619 is I tend to think 787 00:37:26,619 --> 00:37:31,960 of it as kind of an urban single-family zoning district 788 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,199 because it it does 789 00:37:34,199 --> 00:37:37,570 permit the single-family zoning doesn't permit multi-family 790 00:37:37,570 --> 00:37:38,360 so I tend to look at 791 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:43,860 it as an urban neighborhood zoning district. Commissioner 792 00:37:43,860 --> 00:37:44,219 Bec. Thank you 793 00:37:44,219 --> 00:37:48,980 Chair. On that then are you saying DR 1 wouldn't allow du 794 00:37:48,980 --> 00:37:51,079 plexes? It does permit 795 00:37:51,079 --> 00:37:54,199 duplexes and so maybe and maybe I maybe I should have added 796 00:37:54,199 --> 00:37:55,559 that in so yes DR 1 797 00:37:55,559 --> 00:37:59,239 does permit duplexes and DR 2 also permits duplexes which 798 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:00,420 is why I netted it 799 00:38:00,420 --> 00:38:03,099 out of the table because those are similar uses within the 800 00:38:03,099 --> 00:38:03,920 two. Would four 801 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,360 plexes be stretching in a DR 1? A four plex is actually 802 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:08,480 considered multi-family 803 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,530 within our development code. Three or more dwelling units 804 00:38:11,530 --> 00:38:12,480 on a single parcel 805 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:18,579 is considered multi-family. Okay but your density is for DR 806 00:38:18,579 --> 00:38:21,480 1 is 8 that's 8 807 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,760 units per acre is that correct? Okay and a unit is what a 808 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,599 bedroom or an entire 809 00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:34,190 apartment? It would be an entire living, eating, bathroom 810 00:38:34,190 --> 00:38:35,559 and sleeping so it would 811 00:38:35,559 --> 00:38:39,639 be a unit is an entire dwelling unit so. Okay it wouldn't 812 00:38:39,639 --> 00:38:42,199 be an SRO type thing. No a 813 00:38:42,199 --> 00:38:44,829 dwelling unit would include all of those things that it 814 00:38:44,829 --> 00:38:45,679 would take to to live 815 00:38:45,679 --> 00:38:50,440 there. Okay but now in the DR 2 the maximum density is 30 816 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:51,800 per acre and we're talking 817 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,530 about less than a half acre there so we conceivably 15 818 00:38:55,530 --> 00:38:57,079 people could live there 819 00:38:57,079 --> 00:39:00,659 and that would be violating because it couldn't have any 820 00:39:00,659 --> 00:39:02,159 more than 15 if we're 821 00:39:02,159 --> 00:39:07,840 we're saying the density is 30 per acre. Well and I think 822 00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:08,599 and I think I think I know where you're 823 00:39:08,599 --> 00:39:13,699 going so DR 2 does permit does calculate density based upon 824 00:39:13,699 --> 00:39:14,719 number of bedrooms so 825 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,239 in DR 2 as well as DCG and I know y'all seen limitation 5. 826 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:19,440 Limitation 5 is that 827 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,610 each bedroom equals one half dwelling unit so that a two- 828 00:39:22,610 --> 00:39:23,679 bedroom apartment 829 00:39:23,679 --> 00:39:26,550 would be one dwelling unit a four-bedroom apartment would 830 00:39:26,550 --> 00:39:26,920 be two 831 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,960 dwelling units. One bedroom apartment would be half a 832 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,079 dwelling unit. That's what I was trying to get. Yes so that 833 00:39:33,079 --> 00:39:34,320 really doesn't change the 834 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,440 definition of what a dwelling unit is within the 835 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:37,719 development code it's just 836 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,809 how they how they calculate it within those districts that 837 00:39:40,809 --> 00:39:41,960 have limitation 5. 838 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:46,639 Okay. Clear as my. Thank you. So DR 2 does permit multif 839 00:39:46,639 --> 00:39:48,760 amily with limitation 5. DR 2 840 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,590 also permits some commercial uses so those neighborhoods 841 00:39:51,590 --> 00:39:52,440 serving commercial 842 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,269 uses it permits retail sales and service and professional 843 00:39:55,269 --> 00:39:56,360 services and offices 844 00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,420 those things that you want to see in a neighborhood at a 845 00:40:00,420 --> 00:40:03,239 small scale and 846 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,550 permits veterinary clinics and then it you know this the 847 00:40:06,550 --> 00:40:07,360 scale of the of the 848 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,530 develop of the two zoning districts are are somewhat 849 00:40:11,530 --> 00:40:14,000 similar. When we looked at 850 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,920 the mobility of the area so in the yellow is generally 851 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:17,920 where the site is 852 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,150 it's it's a little zoomed out so so it's a little larger 853 00:40:21,150 --> 00:40:22,480 than but it's generally 854 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:28,110 where this the site is. The area has a lot of per the 855 00:40:28,110 --> 00:40:31,119 mobility plan has collector 856 00:40:31,119 --> 00:40:35,239 streets that help residents of the area move through the 857 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,340 area so Eagle is 858 00:40:37,340 --> 00:40:43,929 a collector you've got Collins Bernard Welch Avenue a so 859 00:40:43,929 --> 00:40:44,840 those those 860 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,829 collectors help you move through that area. The green 861 00:40:48,829 --> 00:40:51,199 circle is a is about a 862 00:40:51,199 --> 00:40:53,820 five to ten minute walk depending on how fast you walk it's 863 00:40:53,820 --> 00:40:54,599 about a quarter mile 864 00:40:54,599 --> 00:40:58,039 so as you can see it's it's it's within walking distance of 865 00:40:58,039 --> 00:41:00,679 the UNT campus. It's 866 00:41:00,679 --> 00:41:04,409 also served by transit facilities and as well as some 867 00:41:04,409 --> 00:41:06,159 existing and proposed by 868 00:41:06,159 --> 00:41:14,500 bike routes. So based upon that that that land use analysis 869 00:41:14,500 --> 00:41:15,400 the the looking at 870 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,849 what's around the subject property staff has recommends 871 00:41:19,849 --> 00:41:21,320 denial of the request 872 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,199 because of the fact that the request would create an 873 00:41:24,199 --> 00:41:25,639 isolated zoning district 874 00:41:25,639 --> 00:41:29,230 which could impede the development of the of the area and 875 00:41:29,230 --> 00:41:30,360 and potentially 876 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,070 prevent it from developing in a cohesive manner so I'll 877 00:41:33,070 --> 00:41:34,199 stand for any questions. 878 00:41:34,199 --> 00:41:39,320 Oh sorry one more notification like wasn't quite finished 879 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,400 here we set out 880 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:44,079 public notification we've received one letter in opposition 881 00:41:44,079 --> 00:41:44,320 and that's it. 882 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,590 I'll stand for any questions. Commissioner Taylor. Thank 883 00:41:47,590 --> 00:41:49,760 you chair. Could you pull 884 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:56,489 back up the the full neighborhood zoning map? So in this 885 00:41:56,489 --> 00:41:57,639 one okay that goes to 886 00:41:57,639 --> 00:42:03,469 Eagle. There it's really hard to tell what's dr1 and dr2. 887 00:42:03,469 --> 00:42:04,159 Those grains are 888 00:42:04,159 --> 00:42:10,239 very very subtle yes. Yeah so this is D this this that's dr 889 00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:11,719 2. And then 890 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,760 there's one that faces Fannin and there's two facing 891 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,960 Collins over I think 892 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:25,570 over a little like east east of Avenue A just barely like 893 00:42:25,570 --> 00:42:26,920 one parcel east of 894 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:35,460 Avenue A. Collins and Avenue A so right here. Fannin and 895 00:42:35,460 --> 00:42:37,039 Avenue A. Fannin and Avenue A. 896 00:42:37,039 --> 00:42:42,090 Yes right here. Yeah no go a little bit east right there. 897 00:42:42,090 --> 00:42:43,199 Okay so that so you 898 00:42:43,199 --> 00:42:46,570 have dr2 in the middle of the block there but it's across 899 00:42:46,570 --> 00:42:47,360 the street from 900 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:52,849 dr2 and then it backs up to dr2. These have these have been 901 00:42:52,849 --> 00:42:53,599 done you know 902 00:42:53,599 --> 00:43:00,360 yeah piece by piece. We we haven't ever really looked at 903 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:01,559 rezoning this area 904 00:43:01,559 --> 00:43:07,050 categorically but I think I've probably seen six or seven 905 00:43:07,050 --> 00:43:08,639 cases. The apartment 906 00:43:08,639 --> 00:43:13,829 complex up on Eagle was a rezone. The one on Cleveland was 907 00:43:13,829 --> 00:43:16,239 a big rezone. You know 908 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,289 there there have been a bunch of these little two or one or 909 00:43:19,289 --> 00:43:20,400 two or four parcels 910 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:24,349 just in the neighborhood going dr1 to dr2 or dr2 to you 911 00:43:24,349 --> 00:43:27,440 know DCG usually and I 912 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,980 think that DCN was also a rezone at the corner of Bernard 913 00:43:30,980 --> 00:43:34,280 and Fannin. So it seems 914 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:38,039 like what we've been allowing to happen is is the piecemeal 915 00:43:38,039 --> 00:43:38,840 rezone into 916 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,989 denser more dense categories and it hasn't been consistent 917 00:43:41,989 --> 00:43:42,840 it hasn't been 918 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,719 one parcel at a time. It'll be the middle of the block and 919 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:46,519 then the block 920 00:43:46,519 --> 00:43:49,820 behind it and then it'll fill back in and cover the entire 921 00:43:49,820 --> 00:43:50,599 you know the the 922 00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:54,590 entire block or there will be a large development that'll 923 00:43:54,590 --> 00:43:55,760 pick up three or 924 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,289 four different zoning categories and rezone all of them in 925 00:43:58,289 --> 00:43:58,840 order to you know 926 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:04,559 build their large development. Is there any plan to make a 927 00:44:04,559 --> 00:44:06,760 cohesive long-term 928 00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,639 rezoning of this area? There's actually a small area plan 929 00:44:10,639 --> 00:44:11,960 for kind of this entire 930 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,349 ring around campus that's in Chandria maybe I'll speak 931 00:44:15,349 --> 00:44:16,239 better about this that 932 00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,320 is I think moving forward so I think I think yes you're 933 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:20,440 right and there is 934 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,809 there is a beginning of a process to really look at this 935 00:44:24,809 --> 00:44:26,480 entire ring around 936 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:31,719 UNT comprehensively to determine what is what is the vision 937 00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:32,559 for the area are 938 00:44:32,559 --> 00:44:35,929 there are there smaller character areas and and and how it 939 00:44:35,929 --> 00:44:37,000 and how it needs to 940 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,139 move forward in terms of zoning and use. And that process 941 00:44:40,139 --> 00:44:42,000 has been ongoing since 942 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:47,800 December of 2015? Actually we just kicked off the RFQ on 943 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:49,480 Monday or was it Monday 944 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,019 two days ago. It's a big project. It's actually underway it 945 00:44:53,019 --> 00:44:53,840 's currently underway 946 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:58,239 but I do want to speak to the issue about the piecemeal 947 00:44:58,239 --> 00:44:59,440 zoning even though 948 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,170 we've done that in the past it wasn't appropriate and we 949 00:45:03,170 --> 00:45:04,440 would not want to 950 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,500 encourage that and I don't think we can eat we can legally 951 00:45:08,500 --> 00:45:10,119 do it at this point. 952 00:45:10,119 --> 00:45:15,260 If it's city initiated then we have to be careful that we 953 00:45:15,260 --> 00:45:17,039 're not spot zoning 954 00:45:17,039 --> 00:45:20,590 which we're all familiar with I know we had a training on 955 00:45:20,590 --> 00:45:23,280 that earlier so but 956 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:26,860 absent that if we have a legitimate interest in rezoning a 957 00:45:26,860 --> 00:45:27,760 property for 958 00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,219 a specific purpose like we want it in compliance with our 959 00:45:30,219 --> 00:45:31,119 future land use map 960 00:45:31,119 --> 00:45:33,949 or whatever like we have that subcommittee that you were on 961 00:45:33,949 --> 00:45:34,300 Commissioner 962 00:45:34,300 --> 00:45:39,239 Taylor then that is legal that wouldn't be considered spot 963 00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:40,840 zoning. So just to 964 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:45,800 clarify if we if in this case they could rezone this one 965 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,159 parcel and being 966 00:45:47,159 --> 00:45:50,530 compliance with state law? Yeah they're making the request 967 00:45:50,530 --> 00:45:52,320 correct? It's not a 968 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,050 city initiated zoning. And as long as it complies with our 969 00:45:56,050 --> 00:45:56,960 all of our 970 00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,800 requirements then yes. Okay and I think it would be a 971 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:00,960 challenge I think it would 972 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,170 be a stretch to say DR 1 next to DR 2 is spot zoning 973 00:46:04,170 --> 00:46:05,480 because they are very 974 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:10,659 similar. 150 uses only like six differ so I don't think we 975 00:46:10,659 --> 00:46:11,159 have to worry too 976 00:46:11,159 --> 00:46:13,760 much about that. Yeah you would look at the surrounding 977 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,320 adjacency and our flume 978 00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,420 and all of those things and the comprehensive land use plan 979 00:46:19,420 --> 00:46:20,280 . Right and it 980 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:24,150 is consistent with all those. I want to point out while we 981 00:46:24,150 --> 00:46:25,239 're on the subject of 982 00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:29,599 which zoning categories the property in the southwest 983 00:46:29,599 --> 00:46:31,280 corner this block is 984 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:39,880 actually DCG. So we have even a higher zoning category you 985 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:41,280 know not even one 986 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:46,230 full lot away from this particular site and we also have 987 00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:47,880 the DR 2 up in the 988 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:52,679 northwest corner that's in this same block so I'm with you 989 00:46:52,679 --> 00:46:53,960 I don't think it's 990 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:59,840 a big stretch to bump it up to DR 2 if that's where the 991 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:00,920 Commission sees fit. 992 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:06,039 Commissioner Ellis. Thank you Chair. So on the corner I 993 00:47:06,039 --> 00:47:08,019 think it's Norman and 994 00:47:08,019 --> 00:47:17,079 Greenlee. Right here? Yeah so I mean so that's DR 1 so I 995 00:47:17,079 --> 00:47:19,480 think there they've 996 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,780 they've pushed the limits of how they've developed that 997 00:47:21,780 --> 00:47:22,940 particular corner because 998 00:47:22,940 --> 00:47:25,469 it certainly looks like multifamily but what it must be is 999 00:47:25,469 --> 00:47:26,840 multiple duplexes but 1000 00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,199 it's certainly more than one in it they all kind of look 1001 00:47:29,199 --> 00:47:31,000 the same and seem like 1002 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:38,679 they are a group. As well I think to the north on Neff I 1003 00:47:38,679 --> 00:47:40,039 want to say on a corner 1004 00:47:40,039 --> 00:47:45,760 Collins and something. This one right here? I feel like it 1005 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:47,760 was on the east side 1006 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:52,920 but I think similar right I think they're they're multiple 1007 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:53,920 duplexes then 1008 00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:59,809 just on separate lots which is yeah so so I guess I'm 1009 00:47:59,809 --> 00:48:02,559 trying to get to I don't 1010 00:48:02,559 --> 00:48:05,389 see this as a big stretch of what they're requesting I mean 1011 00:48:05,389 --> 00:48:06,000 I understand 1012 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:09,369 you know in your presentation of why you want to deny but 1013 00:48:09,369 --> 00:48:10,599 there's an awful lot 1014 00:48:10,599 --> 00:48:13,969 going around on that block that looks and feels like multif 1015 00:48:13,969 --> 00:48:14,800 amily and just 1016 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:19,320 isn't. I want to go on the kind of I think where 1017 00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,440 Commissioner Ellis is going we had 1018 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,559 a lot of conversation with Park 7s about what looks like 1019 00:48:25,559 --> 00:48:26,800 single family that 1020 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,170 actually has multiple meters on it and all that do we have 1021 00:48:30,170 --> 00:48:31,440 any idea of what 1022 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:35,170 some of the actual uses are around this particular site 1023 00:48:35,170 --> 00:48:36,360 even though we have 1024 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,519 multifamily or duplexes scattered around at some of the 1025 00:48:39,519 --> 00:48:40,840 homes I don't know where 1026 00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,619 they've been converted or there a traditional family in 1027 00:48:44,619 --> 00:48:45,760 there or it's got 1028 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,849 four meters on it do we even know that for additional 1029 00:48:48,849 --> 00:48:50,559 background clarification? 1030 00:48:50,559 --> 00:48:55,650 I'm not aware of how they are each end of the or how those 1031 00:48:55,650 --> 00:48:56,760 individual 1032 00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:01,530 structures are being whether they are whether they are 1033 00:49:01,530 --> 00:49:03,000 being used as single 1034 00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:07,409 family or as or as multifamily you know converted to multif 1035 00:49:07,409 --> 00:49:10,519 amily. Okay any other 1036 00:49:10,519 --> 00:49:18,320 questions for Julie? Thank you. Thank you. 1037 00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:32,119 Okay with that I will close our work set close our work 1038 00:49:32,119 --> 00:49:37,840 session at 525 and we'll 1039 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:43,800 reconvene at 630 in council chambers. Thank you. 1040 00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:07,239 Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton Planning and 1041 00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:08,400 Zoning Commission 1042 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,920 meeting for April the 12th 2017. This meeting has been duly 1043 00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:14,079 posted and we do 1044 00:50:14,079 --> 00:50:17,130 have a quorum present and I'm going to call our meeting to 1045 00:50:17,130 --> 00:50:19,280 order at 630. Our 1046 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,579 first order of business will be to stand and give the 1047 00:50:21,579 --> 00:50:22,559 pledge to the US and the 1048 00:50:22,559 --> 00:50:25,159 Texas flag. 1049 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:39,769 One Nation, Under God, Indivisible, with Liberty and 1050 00:50:39,769 --> 00:50:45,400 Justice for all. Honor the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance 1051 00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:53,159 to the Texas One State, Under God, One and Indivisible. 1052 00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:01,679 Just as a point of order we do not have any minutes to be 1053 00:51:01,679 --> 00:51:04,199 approved this evening so 1054 00:51:04,199 --> 00:51:09,199 that will move us to our consent agenda. 1055 00:51:12,199 --> 00:51:19,059 Commissioner Beck? I move we approve consent agenda. Okay 1056 00:51:19,059 --> 00:51:20,519 Commissioner Oselle? 1057 00:51:20,519 --> 00:51:24,400 Second. Okay we have a first and a second for approval. Any 1058 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:25,400 discussion or 1059 00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:32,789 questions? Seeing none we'll call for a vote on the board. 1060 00:51:32,789 --> 00:51:41,239 Motion carries six to 1061 00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:46,329 zero. Again as a point of order we don't have any 1062 00:51:46,329 --> 00:51:48,719 individual consent items or 1063 00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:53,300 consideration items so we'll move on to public hearings and 1064 00:51:53,300 --> 00:51:54,760 I want to announce 1065 00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:58,769 and we don't have very many people here this evening that 1066 00:51:58,769 --> 00:52:01,800 we have item C has 1067 00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:08,599 been withdrawn for this evening. I will move us to item A. 1068 00:52:08,599 --> 00:52:09,559 I'm going to open the 1069 00:52:09,559 --> 00:52:15,050 public hearing for FR 16 - 0029 and call on Haley for 1070 00:52:15,050 --> 00:52:17,280 presentation. 1071 00:52:25,519 --> 00:52:31,809 Good evening so this is a final replat for the Teasley Lane 1072 00:52:31,809 --> 00:52:34,840 High School 1073 00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:39,070 edition. The purpose of the plat is to take one lot that 1074 00:52:39,070 --> 00:52:40,719 was formerly platted 1075 00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,019 and two unplatted parcels and create a single lot for the 1076 00:52:44,019 --> 00:52:45,440 purposes of expansion 1077 00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:45,440 at the high school and I can answer any questions. Any 1078 00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:54,239 questions for staff? Thank 1079 00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:59,239 you Haley. This is a public hearing so is there anyone who 1080 00:52:59,239 --> 00:53:00,159 would like to speak on 1081 00:53:00,159 --> 00:53:05,679 this item this evening? I have no cards and seeing none I 1082 00:53:05,679 --> 00:53:06,699 will close the public 1083 00:53:06,699 --> 00:53:12,190 hearing and open the floor for discussion or motion. 1084 00:53:12,190 --> 00:53:14,320 Commissioner Hudsworth? Move 1085 00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:21,039 approval of FR 16 - 0029. Okay Commissioner Ellis? I will 1086 00:53:21,039 --> 00:53:22,119 second. Okay we have a 1087 00:53:22,119 --> 00:53:28,409 first and a second for approval. Any discussion? Seeing 1088 00:53:28,409 --> 00:53:29,760 none I'll call for a 1089 00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,280 vote on the board. 1090 00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:44,880 Motion carries 6 to 0. Move us to item B. I will open the 1091 00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:47,239 public hearing for Z 17 - 1092 00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:54,119 001 and I will call on Julie Wyatt for presentation. 1093 00:53:58,559 --> 00:54:00,519 Good evening I'm Julie Wyatt senior planner with the City 1094 00:54:00,519 --> 00:54:03,079 of Denton. Would 1095 00:54:03,079 --> 00:54:06,130 you like to go over the full presentation again or did you 1096 00:54:06,130 --> 00:54:06,760 want to do 1097 00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:12,039 just a short version? Okay all right so this is Z 17-1 self 1098 00:54:12,039 --> 00:54:14,119 -service storage. The 1099 00:54:14,119 --> 00:54:18,260 request is to amend sub chapter 5 pertaining to the self-st 1100 00:54:18,260 --> 00:54:19,280 orage service 1101 00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:24,769 the self-service storage use based upon the the 1102 00:54:24,769 --> 00:54:26,679 considerations that we discussed 1103 00:54:26,679 --> 00:54:29,960 in work session. Staff does recommend approval with a 1104 00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,000 condition that to add an 1105 00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,869 additional limitation to L 35 that states all individually 1106 00:54:36,869 --> 00:54:37,719 leased storage 1107 00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:40,800 units must be contained within a climate controlled 1108 00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:42,400 building and I'll stand for 1109 00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:51,670 any questions. Commissioner Tabin. So to continue the 1110 00:54:51,670 --> 00:54:52,440 discussions we're having in 1111 00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:56,639 the work session so L 35 has has a lot of other 1112 00:54:56,639 --> 00:54:57,800 requirements. Can you pull up 1113 00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:04,460 the list of all the requirements? I think we've just to 1114 00:55:04,460 --> 00:55:06,360 review for everybody 1115 00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,059 that might have missed the work session we've identified a 1116 00:55:08,059 --> 00:55:08,719 few different kind of 1117 00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:15,989 conflicts here. The first is these limitations the these 1118 00:55:15,989 --> 00:55:18,159 limitations here 1119 00:55:18,159 --> 00:55:21,550 maybe it's the next page is the next slide so this this 1120 00:55:21,550 --> 00:55:23,880 page requires that no 1121 00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,269 doors be visible from adjacent properties right-of-ways. 1122 00:55:27,269 --> 00:55:27,920 The slide 1123 00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:31,800 before it has restrictions on glass but leans toward a 1124 00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:33,400 glass fronted kind of 1125 00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:39,719 facade that would probably allow you to see the doors. L 35 1126 00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:41,360 also has the air 1127 00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,300 conditioned requirement and an air like in a climate 1128 00:55:44,300 --> 00:55:45,880 controlled storage 1129 00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,179 requirement. That's staff's recommendation to add to it. 1130 00:55:48,179 --> 00:55:51,039 Yes sir. Yeah and so and that 1131 00:55:51,039 --> 00:55:55,570 that necessarily makes the shape of the building kind of 1132 00:55:55,570 --> 00:55:57,559 smaller and taller just 1133 00:55:57,559 --> 00:56:04,679 for energy efficiency and so I think I the way I see 1134 00:56:04,679 --> 00:56:07,920 through this is in CMG 1135 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:11,880 which is our retail zoning grocery stores and strip retail 1136 00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:13,239 I think that the 1137 00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:17,230 climate control restriction might be appropriate. I think 1138 00:56:17,230 --> 00:56:19,139 that the seeing the 1139 00:56:19,139 --> 00:56:23,179 doors visible maybe on ground floor but having a window 1140 00:56:23,179 --> 00:56:24,480 where you can see 1141 00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:28,210 through a window and then see a door is I don't think that 1142 00:56:28,210 --> 00:56:29,719 's necessary at all I 1143 00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,110 think that's that doesn't really make sense it's not not 1144 00:56:32,110 --> 00:56:33,599 really an eyesore. I 1145 00:56:33,599 --> 00:56:37,469 like the masonry restrictions that was the first very first 1146 00:56:37,469 --> 00:56:40,800 one and the outdoor 1147 00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,369 storage and fencing I think that's all fine. I do also 1148 00:56:43,369 --> 00:56:44,519 think we need to separate 1149 00:56:44,519 --> 00:56:50,119 ECI and ECC some of those happen to be near residential 1150 00:56:50,119 --> 00:56:50,920 areas but they're kind 1151 00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:54,340 of intended intended for commercial use and I think in a 1152 00:56:54,340 --> 00:56:56,519 commercial area we 1153 00:56:56,519 --> 00:56:58,429 don't need the climate control and I don't know that we 1154 00:56:58,429 --> 00:56:59,280 necessarily need the 1155 00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:03,650 SUP I don't know who else's thoughts are on that. Those are 1156 00:57:03,650 --> 00:57:06,719 all my comments. 1157 00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:12,920 Anyone else? Well I'll speak then I'll chime in with 1158 00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:14,440 Commissioner Tedder. My 1159 00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:18,500 concern is adding the SUP requirement on top of just across 1160 00:57:18,500 --> 00:57:19,679 the board these 1161 00:57:19,679 --> 00:57:23,909 three areas. I'd like to have some more discussion this 1162 00:57:23,909 --> 00:57:26,840 evening and I'm leaning 1163 00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:30,059 towards the possibility and I don't know if there's a time 1164 00:57:30,059 --> 00:57:31,360 crunch on this that we 1165 00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:34,409 continue it and have some of these things addressed and 1166 00:57:34,409 --> 00:57:35,360 cleaned up and let 1167 00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:39,389 staff do that and then bring this back in two weeks or 30 1168 00:57:39,389 --> 00:57:40,500 days I don't know how 1169 00:57:40,500 --> 00:57:44,860 long the time would be to that it can have those few little 1170 00:57:44,860 --> 00:57:45,760 tweaks and 1171 00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,809 changes and then brought back is there a time crunch that 1172 00:57:48,809 --> 00:57:49,800 there's a project 1173 00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:55,469 that's pending waiting on this or now the applicant is here 1174 00:57:55,469 --> 00:57:56,719 and and so he may 1175 00:57:56,719 --> 00:58:01,239 be able to answer that okay great Commissioner Roselle I 1176 00:58:01,239 --> 00:58:02,840 might defer my 1177 00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:05,760 time after public hearing if the applicant speaking so 1178 00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:07,039 maybe I'll is the 1179 00:58:07,039 --> 00:58:10,679 applicant planning on speaking this evening I believe so 1180 00:58:14,679 --> 00:58:19,769 thank you Judy thanks do you have one card this evening 1181 00:58:19,769 --> 00:58:21,360 Michael Coker you'd 1182 00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:23,840 like to come forward give your name and address for us and 1183 00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:24,800 as the applicant 1184 00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:29,750 we'll have 10 minutes thank you mr. chair Michael Coker 31 1185 00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:31,360 11 Canton Street 1186 00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:38,719 Dallas Texas anyway that's my address and my name I'm the 1187 00:58:38,719 --> 00:58:39,480 applicant in this case 1188 00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:43,900 and let me give you about a two-minute review of how we got 1189 00:58:43,900 --> 00:58:45,920 where we are my 1190 00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:49,650 client identified a piece of property between gay and 1191 00:58:49,650 --> 00:58:51,239 Georgetown on the north 1192 00:58:51,239 --> 00:58:54,070 side of 380 backs up to a neighborhood single-family 1193 00:58:54,070 --> 00:58:56,119 detached and it's about 1194 00:58:56,119 --> 00:58:58,949 five and a half acres all in but we lose about an acre 1195 00:58:58,949 --> 00:59:00,280 because there's a creek 1196 00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:05,139 that runs from northwest to southeast across it and there's 1197 00:59:05,139 --> 00:59:06,679 a Taco Bell on the 1198 00:59:06,679 --> 00:59:11,610 corner of Georgetown and that property has been available 1199 00:59:11,610 --> 00:59:13,280 for a long time for 1200 00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,829 CMG uses but nobody has stepped into that and I think a lot 1201 00:59:16,829 --> 00:59:17,760 of it has I'm a 1202 00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:21,489 land planner by trade has to do with the fact that it's 1203 00:59:21,489 --> 00:59:23,480 separated from 380 by that 1204 00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:28,460 Creek and the parts that were developable adjacent to 380 1205 00:59:28,460 --> 00:59:29,280 have been 1206 00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:34,519 developed that said we met with the staff in June to see 1207 00:59:34,519 --> 00:59:35,480 what our options 1208 00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,309 were because it was clear that the zoning that was on the 1209 00:59:38,309 --> 00:59:39,800 property didn't 1210 00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:43,070 meet our requirements because we wanted to do self-service 1211 00:59:43,070 --> 00:59:44,920 storage so we talked 1212 00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:48,440 to the staff and I really thought about changing the comp 1213 00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:49,559 plan and but that 1214 00:59:49,559 --> 00:59:52,130 wasn't going to get me where I wanted to go because it didn 1215 00:59:52,130 --> 00:59:53,079 't make any sense to 1216 00:59:53,079 --> 00:59:56,130 put industrial zoning next to the neighborhood and so we 1217 00:59:56,130 --> 00:59:57,360 worked with the 1218 00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:01,730 staff over the intervening eight months now or so to come 1219 01:00:01,730 --> 01:00:02,679 up with a 1220 01:00:02,679 --> 01:00:07,190 recommendation and we'd research surrounding communities to 1221 01:00:07,190 --> 01:00:08,079 find out how 1222 01:00:08,079 --> 01:00:13,579 they dealt with self storage facilities and we kind of 1223 01:00:13,579 --> 01:00:14,960 synthesized out of that 1224 01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,389 research a set of rules that we submitted to the staff and 1225 01:00:18,389 --> 01:00:19,119 and that's 1226 01:00:19,119 --> 01:00:23,110 where you get things like the 70% glass not to not more 1227 01:00:23,110 --> 01:00:24,280 than that but other 1228 01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:28,010 other jurisdictions have that kind of restriction so we 1229 01:00:28,010 --> 01:00:29,599 worked with your staff 1230 01:00:29,599 --> 01:00:33,329 and actually you've had a change of staff in the interven 1231 01:00:33,329 --> 01:00:34,400 ing eight or nine 1232 01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:38,300 months and Julie's been a pleasure to work with I do not 1233 01:00:38,300 --> 01:00:39,519 like her last 1234 01:00:39,519 --> 01:00:42,480 recommendation though and I'll tell you what that's about 1235 01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:44,039 we get to where we've 1236 01:00:44,039 --> 01:00:47,119 been working with the staff and out of the staff 1237 01:00:47,119 --> 01:00:48,239 recommendation there's a 1238 01:00:48,239 --> 01:00:53,730 change and it has to do with single building everything 1239 01:00:53,730 --> 01:00:55,400 enclosed client 1240 01:00:55,400 --> 01:01:01,429 control I mean climate control well our market research in 1241 01:01:01,429 --> 01:01:03,480 Denton tells us that 1242 01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:07,530 the percentage of folks that we think are likely to use our 1243 01:01:07,530 --> 01:01:08,880 facility are from 1244 01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:11,579 the neighborhoods and they've got multifamily and there's 1245 01:01:11,579 --> 01:01:12,280 some businesses 1246 01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:16,150 but it's mostly people like us that pull up with their 1247 01:01:16,150 --> 01:01:17,360 pickup or their their 1248 01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:22,309 trailer and they want to unload it and put it in the unit 1249 01:01:22,309 --> 01:01:24,239 and and go home I 1250 01:01:24,239 --> 01:01:28,619 work in Dallas and they just built one of these three or 1251 01:01:28,619 --> 01:01:30,960 four story units close 1252 01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:34,329 to my office and you cannot drive up and unload it and put 1253 01:01:34,329 --> 01:01:35,400 it in your unit you've 1254 01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:38,769 got to drive up unload it put it in an elevator unless you 1255 01:01:38,769 --> 01:01:39,420 happen to be on the 1256 01:01:39,420 --> 01:01:44,349 first floor and take it up to the level that you're at 1257 01:01:44,349 --> 01:01:45,619 unload it again then 1258 01:01:45,619 --> 01:01:48,769 carry it off to the to the unit where you're going to store 1259 01:01:48,769 --> 01:01:49,719 it we don't have 1260 01:01:49,719 --> 01:01:54,579 any problem with that as a portion of our of our approach 1261 01:01:54,579 --> 01:01:56,679 so with that we 1262 01:01:56,679 --> 01:02:01,469 would like you to consider three things to modify the staff 1263 01:02:01,469 --> 01:02:03,159 now the 70% part 1264 01:02:03,159 --> 01:02:07,969 that came from other jurisdictions the fact that SUPs for 1265 01:02:07,969 --> 01:02:09,119 other zoning 1266 01:02:09,119 --> 01:02:11,829 districts we were really looking at CMG the staff asked us 1267 01:02:11,829 --> 01:02:12,719 to include the other 1268 01:02:12,719 --> 01:02:16,860 ones so to the extent that I did what they asked me to do I 1269 01:02:16,860 --> 01:02:18,159 don't have a dog 1270 01:02:18,159 --> 01:02:21,099 in that hunt but I do have one on this little piece of 1271 01:02:21,099 --> 01:02:22,239 property with five 1272 01:02:22,239 --> 01:02:26,769 acres there are three things that I'd like you to consider 1273 01:02:26,769 --> 01:02:27,880 as you move this 1274 01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:33,699 through the evaluation first thing is change the language 1275 01:02:33,699 --> 01:02:34,760 that the staff has 1276 01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:36,960 put 1277 01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:48,349 under staff recommendation on page two of three number one 1278 01:02:48,349 --> 01:02:50,320 a should read all 1279 01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:53,710 individually least storage units must be contained within a 1280 01:02:53,710 --> 01:02:54,599 climate controlled 1281 01:02:54,599 --> 01:02:58,179 building comma however when adjacent to residential zoning 1282 01:02:58,179 --> 01:02:58,880 districts comma 1283 01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:02,750 self service storage facilities shall not exceed one story 1284 01:03:02,750 --> 01:03:04,239 to height and shall 1285 01:03:04,239 --> 01:03:09,070 allow drive-up access when located within 120 feet of the 1286 01:03:09,070 --> 01:03:09,679 residential 1287 01:03:09,679 --> 01:03:13,679 zoning district boundary line and the storage units need 1288 01:03:13,679 --> 01:03:14,719 not be climate 1289 01:03:14,719 --> 01:03:17,550 controlled that's the first thing so what we're doing is we 1290 01:03:17,550 --> 01:03:18,159 're taking this 1291 01:03:18,159 --> 01:03:20,829 what the staff recommend to have climate control for 1292 01:03:20,829 --> 01:03:22,039 everything and saying 1293 01:03:22,039 --> 01:03:27,130 however if you're within 120 feet of a of a residentially z 1294 01:03:27,130 --> 01:03:29,400 oned district that 1295 01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,969 you're going to protect those property owners where there's 1296 01:03:31,969 --> 01:03:32,599 multifamily 1297 01:03:32,599 --> 01:03:36,130 single-family townhouse cluster housing you're going to 1298 01:03:36,130 --> 01:03:37,360 keep that low to one 1299 01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:42,230 story for 120 feet there's there's buffering requirements 1300 01:03:42,230 --> 01:03:42,639 and things like 1301 01:03:42,639 --> 01:03:46,179 that but we think that that when I sit in my in my backyard 1302 01:03:46,179 --> 01:03:47,400 and I look out the 1303 01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:52,349 last thing I want to see is a three-story self storage unit 1304 01:03:52,349 --> 01:03:53,159 there if I 1305 01:03:53,159 --> 01:03:55,500 can avoid it and I don't mind looking at the top of my 1306 01:03:55,500 --> 01:03:57,559 neighbor's house which I 1307 01:03:57,559 --> 01:04:00,599 think you get the effect and as you get closer to 380 in 1308 01:04:00,599 --> 01:04:02,320 our case the height can 1309 01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:07,489 go up we're actually proposing maximum of two stories on 1310 01:04:07,489 --> 01:04:08,880 the part of our 1311 01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:11,829 property that is closest to the creek which is closest to 3 1312 01:04:11,829 --> 01:04:13,159 80 the second 1313 01:04:13,159 --> 01:04:18,000 thing we'd like you to consider is the first level of multi 1314 01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:19,480 -story self-service 1315 01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:23,360 stories buildings may have exterior non climate controlled 1316 01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:24,719 drive-up units now 1317 01:04:24,719 --> 01:04:28,780 this works pretty well with the fact that one of the things 1318 01:04:28,780 --> 01:04:29,159 that 1319 01:04:29,159 --> 01:04:32,389 Commissioner Taylor talked about was that the disparity 1320 01:04:32,389 --> 01:04:33,960 between the 70% glass 1321 01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:37,070 and you can't see him from the public way or from the 1322 01:04:37,070 --> 01:04:40,000 neighborhood this we're 1323 01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:42,300 we're going to put in a masonry wall that completely 1324 01:04:42,300 --> 01:04:43,480 screens the ground floor 1325 01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:47,670 so what's happening on the ground floor won't be seen from 1326 01:04:47,670 --> 01:04:49,199 from our neighbors 1327 01:04:49,199 --> 01:04:51,349 or from the public way and so we think that having the 1328 01:04:51,349 --> 01:04:53,039 drive-up capacity which 1329 01:04:53,039 --> 01:04:56,130 is consistent with our market research makes perfectly good 1330 01:04:56,130 --> 01:04:57,159 sense and miss 1331 01:04:57,159 --> 01:04:59,989 Ellis there's one last thing that I put it in since I 1332 01:04:59,989 --> 01:05:00,960 talked to you the other 1333 01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:07,519 day the last thing is that we do think that second level 1334 01:05:07,519 --> 01:05:09,679 glass on an 1335 01:05:09,679 --> 01:05:13,179 architectural feature that you can look through and see one 1336 01:05:13,179 --> 01:05:14,320 of the storage unit 1337 01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:17,030 doors or multiple storage unit doors is not disadvantageous 1338 01:05:17,030 --> 01:05:17,960 and we'd like you to 1339 01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:21,329 consider that as well so with that mr. chair members of the 1340 01:05:21,329 --> 01:05:22,320 Commission I'm glad 1341 01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,690 to answer any questions that you might have as long as I 1342 01:05:25,690 --> 01:05:27,320 can actually answer them 1343 01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:37,409 got a couple questions for you Commissioner Hudson do you 1344 01:05:37,409 --> 01:05:39,679 envision 1345 01:05:39,679 --> 01:05:43,119 turning in looking at the I don't know can we pull up the 1346 01:05:43,119 --> 01:05:44,760 Google map of that I 1347 01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:50,769 can give you the address if you want it let me see yes so 1348 01:05:50,769 --> 01:05:53,079 what's you can let's 1349 01:05:53,079 --> 01:06:02,809 see we get your better address if you go 1801 gay drive no 1350 01:06:02,809 --> 01:06:04,599 the the actual 1351 01:06:04,599 --> 01:06:13,670 property yes is that okay excellent 1801 gay street and 1352 01:06:13,670 --> 01:06:15,079 that's a 1353 01:06:15,079 --> 01:06:24,920 department drive and if you click that square at the yeah 1354 01:06:24,920 --> 01:06:26,159 while we're looking 1355 01:06:26,159 --> 01:06:29,889 up the address I notice we've had a couple people come in a 1356 01:06:29,889 --> 01:06:30,960 little late after 1357 01:06:30,960 --> 01:06:34,239 we started we announced at the beginning of our meeting 1358 01:06:34,239 --> 01:06:36,480 that the Kroger project 1359 01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:44,039 has been well I don't know that that's correct and we're 1360 01:06:44,039 --> 01:06:44,760 getting ready to do 1361 01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,989 that yeah we announced that there was a withdrawal of item 1362 01:06:47,989 --> 01:06:50,840 3c yep and we haven't 1363 01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:55,699 discussed Kroger we're getting ready to okay my apologies 1364 01:06:55,699 --> 01:06:56,559 we'll get back to that 1365 01:06:56,559 --> 01:07:04,039 in just a second okay the access will it come from gay 1366 01:07:04,039 --> 01:07:05,519 street will it be passed 1367 01:07:05,519 --> 01:07:08,559 through between Georgetown and gay how do you and how do 1368 01:07:08,559 --> 01:07:09,599 you envision that 1369 01:07:09,599 --> 01:07:13,570 functioning at least at the outset we envision the access 1370 01:07:13,570 --> 01:07:14,719 to come if come in 1371 01:07:14,719 --> 01:07:19,409 off of Georgetown which is on the right hand side of the 1372 01:07:19,409 --> 01:07:20,519 picture yes that's 1373 01:07:20,519 --> 01:07:22,840 actually the neighborhood the access into the neighborhood 1374 01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:24,599 but no access from 1375 01:07:24,599 --> 01:07:27,900 the neighborhood into this into our property gay street 1376 01:07:27,900 --> 01:07:29,760 dead ends at the 1377 01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:34,630 boundary line of the single-family that's just to the north 1378 01:07:34,630 --> 01:07:35,639 of us there I 1379 01:07:35,639 --> 01:07:39,369 miss something turn you'll be able to turn in from 1380 01:07:39,369 --> 01:07:42,159 Georgetown yes sir and then 1381 01:07:42,159 --> 01:07:46,929 exit gay street or no no I exit will go on to in and out 1382 01:07:46,929 --> 01:07:48,760 off of Georgetown okay 1383 01:07:48,760 --> 01:08:02,199 got it okay and so a follow-up is how do you envision 1384 01:08:02,199 --> 01:08:05,840 protecting the back of 1385 01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:09,920 those homes because if you if you where I'm going is if you 1386 01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:11,400 put a wall there and 1387 01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:14,469 there's any space between that wall in the neighborhood now 1388 01:08:14,469 --> 01:08:15,280 there's opportunity 1389 01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:17,779 for someone to hide back there if you shine a light back 1390 01:08:17,779 --> 01:08:18,640 there now you shine 1391 01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:23,189 a light in the back of someone's house so how do you 1392 01:08:23,189 --> 01:08:25,279 envision that kind of 1393 01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:29,010 those two worlds coming together seamlessly I don't think 1394 01:08:29,010 --> 01:08:29,880 it's seamless 1395 01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:32,279 but I do think that we have an answer to the question 1396 01:08:32,279 --> 01:08:33,520 excellent first of all 1397 01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:37,250 there's a utility easement that already runs at the back of 1398 01:08:37,250 --> 01:08:38,319 that property and 1399 01:08:38,319 --> 01:08:41,880 that's 10 feet it's 15 feet wide and so it runs from east 1400 01:08:41,880 --> 01:08:43,039 to west at the south 1401 01:08:43,039 --> 01:08:46,119 side of the residential zoning district we intend to put an 1402 01:08:46,119 --> 01:08:47,479 additional 20 feet 1403 01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:51,560 of landscape buffer between the utility easement and the 1404 01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:53,180 back of our wall and on 1405 01:08:53,180 --> 01:08:57,899 top of that in I don't want to have lights shining into the 1406 01:08:57,899 --> 01:08:58,800 to the neighbors 1407 01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:02,350 yards so any lighting that we put in there is going to be 1408 01:09:02,350 --> 01:09:03,279 focused back 1409 01:09:03,279 --> 01:09:07,020 toward us with whatever overflow does not adversely affect 1410 01:09:07,020 --> 01:09:08,199 the neighbors and 1411 01:09:08,199 --> 01:09:12,300 in addition to that our intention is to have cameras that 1412 01:09:12,300 --> 01:09:14,000 are monitored on a 1413 01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:17,149 regular basis so that we can see what's going on in that 1414 01:09:17,149 --> 01:09:18,359 landscaped area between 1415 01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:22,880 the back of our buildings the wall and our neighbors just 1416 01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:24,399 as a point of order 1417 01:09:24,399 --> 01:09:27,340 we're talking about really ordinance issues and we're kind 1418 01:09:27,340 --> 01:09:28,119 of starting to 1419 01:09:28,119 --> 01:09:32,470 get way into very specific items on one particular site 1420 01:09:32,470 --> 01:09:34,119 versus what's on our 1421 01:09:34,119 --> 01:09:36,949 agenda consider tonight as overall so I'd like to try to 1422 01:09:36,949 --> 01:09:37,760 keep us as best we 1423 01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:42,770 can on what we have before us tonight and to that point 1424 01:09:42,770 --> 01:09:44,319 that's a great I'm 1425 01:09:44,319 --> 01:09:48,189 gonna speak in amongst us not a question but I I don't 1426 01:09:48,189 --> 01:09:49,680 understand the broad 1427 01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:55,170 stroke I guess that's for an individual and with the 1428 01:09:55,170 --> 01:09:56,960 project in mind I don't 1429 01:09:56,960 --> 01:10:01,810 understand the need for the giant stroke I'm missing so I 1430 01:10:01,810 --> 01:10:02,920 'll just wait and 1431 01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:08,720 listen and maybe I'll pick up on it okay thank you 1432 01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:14,520 Commissioner Ellis thank you chair well just to I think 1433 01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:15,479 answer Commissioner 1434 01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:18,520 Hudspeth it would be they can't build a storage unit on 1435 01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:20,319 this lot because it's CMG 1436 01:10:20,319 --> 01:10:24,899 no no CMG lot can be built with self storage and I think 1437 01:10:24,899 --> 01:10:26,199 for the applicant it 1438 01:10:26,199 --> 01:10:29,569 didn't he wasn't gonna be able to get a zoning change here 1439 01:10:29,569 --> 01:10:31,159 for you know to up 1440 01:10:31,159 --> 01:10:33,750 zone it to industrial or employment centers which are the 1441 01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:34,560 only two that the 1442 01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:39,750 city allows right now so I think I think that's how we got 1443 01:10:39,750 --> 01:10:42,680 here so right to do 1444 01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:47,289 this we have to we have to change the entire code right 1445 01:10:47,289 --> 01:10:50,640 this way correct I 1446 01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:54,210 mean now not necessarily these exact words but we have to 1447 01:10:54,210 --> 01:10:55,319 write something 1448 01:10:55,319 --> 01:10:59,270 into the code to allow it in CMG correct correct and that's 1449 01:10:59,270 --> 01:11:00,880 what's before us this 1450 01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:06,369 evening that's a global zoning issue versus a site specific 1451 01:11:06,369 --> 01:11:07,560 application and I 1452 01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:12,000 just wanted as chair to try to keep it at the global versus 1453 01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:13,960 specifically some 1454 01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:15,680 of the things that we were the direction that we were 1455 01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:16,840 starting to go down so 1456 01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:21,359 Commissioner Taylor thank you chair yeah I definitely echo 1457 01:11:21,359 --> 01:11:22,640 your concerns about we 1458 01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:25,789 don't want to get too far into a single case we're looking 1459 01:11:25,789 --> 01:11:26,859 at rewriting the 1460 01:11:26,859 --> 01:11:30,789 entire ordinance there are some good examples out of this 1461 01:11:30,789 --> 01:11:31,359 though I think 1462 01:11:31,359 --> 01:11:35,310 because storage there are all kinds of storage units all 1463 01:11:35,310 --> 01:11:36,520 over Denton because 1464 01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:39,680 they used to be allowed in almost every commercial zoning 1465 01:11:39,680 --> 01:11:40,880 category and so they 1466 01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,510 were they're just sprinkled about there's some on Bell 1467 01:11:43,510 --> 01:11:44,319 there's some on 1468 01:11:44,319 --> 01:11:47,739 Locust there's some on North Locust there's some like in 1469 01:11:47,739 --> 01:11:48,560 East Dent in 1470 01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:51,710 Southeast Denton they're just tucked all through the 1471 01:11:51,710 --> 01:11:54,239 neighborhoods and that was 1472 01:11:54,239 --> 01:11:58,319 why they got zoned out of everything but industrial like 1473 01:11:58,319 --> 01:12:01,840 2000 or 2001 and I do 1474 01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:05,979 think they could fit in CMG but CMG often is a situation 1475 01:12:05,979 --> 01:12:08,279 like this where CMG 1476 01:12:08,279 --> 01:12:10,630 is the retail that serves the neighborhood and it's going 1477 01:12:10,630 --> 01:12:11,119 to be close 1478 01:12:11,119 --> 01:12:13,560 to the neighborhood or back up to the neighborhood and I 1479 01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:15,039 think that 1480 01:12:15,039 --> 01:12:18,770 Commissioner Hutzpeth's concerns illustrate why an SUP 1481 01:12:18,770 --> 01:12:19,840 process might be 1482 01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:25,560 necessary especially in the CMG districts and honestly this 1483 01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:25,600 is this 1484 01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:29,600 conversation has made me come around on the maybe an SUP 1485 01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:34,399 for ECI or ECC I really 1486 01:12:34,399 --> 01:12:37,550 do think we're going to need a work session on this unless 1487 01:12:37,550 --> 01:12:38,439 if if a two-week 1488 01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:48,989 delay doesn't adversely affect this applicant sure so would 1489 01:12:48,989 --> 01:12:49,960 it would a two 1490 01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:54,720 week or four week delay significantly impact your project? 1491 01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:59,239 Since we can't make application for anything unless it gets 1492 01:12:59,239 --> 01:13:01,960 changed. 1493 01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:07,529 Commissioner Rozelle. Thank you chair. So I have a lot of 1494 01:13:07,529 --> 01:13:08,399 thoughts on this and I 1495 01:13:08,399 --> 01:13:11,289 have a pending question for chair that I'd like to formally 1496 01:13:11,289 --> 01:13:12,119 put into public 1497 01:13:12,119 --> 01:13:14,109 session about the height that she brought up in the work 1498 01:13:14,109 --> 01:13:14,600 session so I 1499 01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:18,470 wanted to that's how I'm going to end my statement but 1500 01:13:18,470 --> 01:13:20,800 before I end it one of the 1501 01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:24,359 three things you're asking for was the single-story 1502 01:13:24,359 --> 01:13:27,079 amendment with some feet 1503 01:13:27,079 --> 01:13:30,449 requirement as it pertains to boundary and residential 1504 01:13:30,449 --> 01:13:32,560 access and I have I have 1505 01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:35,670 an issue with that as a code amendment because if you get 1506 01:13:35,670 --> 01:13:36,880 to a property that's 1507 01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:41,029 super small then they can just build a single-story self- 1508 01:13:41,029 --> 01:13:42,199 service unit because 1509 01:13:42,199 --> 01:13:46,439 they won't have the actual width or depth of the property 1510 01:13:46,439 --> 01:13:47,319 to build up they 1511 01:13:47,319 --> 01:13:50,619 if it's a skinny lot then all the property could be within 1512 01:13:50,619 --> 01:13:51,720 120 feet of 1513 01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:55,880 residents and now you you're now allowing a single-story 1514 01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:57,000 self-service in 1515 01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:00,729 the CMG which it seems like we're trying very hard not to 1516 01:14:00,729 --> 01:14:02,079 allow that's not to say 1517 01:14:02,079 --> 01:14:07,159 I'm opposed to using both climate controlled buildings and 1518 01:14:07,159 --> 01:14:08,640 single-story we 1519 01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:11,479 looked in work session of a property on 380 that that was 1520 01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:12,560 doing just that where 1521 01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:16,829 provided the option for indoor storage for some but also 1522 01:14:16,829 --> 01:14:18,439 had the outdoor access 1523 01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:20,390 that you're talking about driveway access for the other 1524 01:14:20,390 --> 01:14:21,119 part of the project 1525 01:14:21,119 --> 01:14:25,159 and I think that is a workable solution depending on the 1526 01:14:25,159 --> 01:14:26,920 property so that to say 1527 01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:31,430 that sets up perfectly for an SUP for the CMG in which we 1528 01:14:31,430 --> 01:14:32,800 don't have to codify 1529 01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:36,529 that the single story is allowed or permittable within 120 1530 01:14:36,529 --> 01:14:37,279 feet because I 1531 01:14:37,279 --> 01:14:41,250 think that is too big of a brush for the code but it brings 1532 01:14:41,250 --> 01:14:42,880 us back around to 1533 01:14:42,880 --> 01:14:48,529 simply allowing self storage units in CMG with an SUP and 1534 01:14:48,529 --> 01:14:50,479 then we have staff in 1535 01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:53,409 the Commission to actually follow through on that and I'm 1536 01:14:53,409 --> 01:14:54,279 unsure if we have 1537 01:14:54,279 --> 01:14:58,659 the SUP procedure why we need L35 at all when we could it 1538 01:14:58,659 --> 01:15:00,039 seems place any or all 1539 01:15:00,039 --> 01:15:03,409 those requirements within the SUP so the redundancy there 1540 01:15:03,409 --> 01:15:04,039 is I think an 1541 01:15:04,039 --> 01:15:09,560 unnecessary the other things that you talked about the 1542 01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:10,920 driveway access had 1543 01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:12,880 been covered my first point in the second story window that 1544 01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:13,359 just makes sense 1545 01:15:13,359 --> 01:15:18,189 I was it didn't make sense to not allow for it looked like 1546 01:15:18,189 --> 01:15:19,960 you were going off 1547 01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:22,789 some other cities that do that but I'm not that doesn't 1548 01:15:22,789 --> 01:15:23,720 make any aesthetic 1549 01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:27,149 sense to me so I agree with you on allowing second third 1550 01:15:27,149 --> 01:15:28,079 fourth story 1551 01:15:28,079 --> 01:15:33,350 windows being able to see into the the ramp but I guess one 1552 01:15:33,350 --> 01:15:34,840 I still have a 1553 01:15:34,840 --> 01:15:38,420 question for the chair about you and work session you'd 1554 01:15:38,420 --> 01:15:39,399 mention that you would 1555 01:15:39,399 --> 01:15:43,720 like to reduce L35 and just add an SUP to fight the height 1556 01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:44,520 restrictions that 1557 01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:47,130 might be have pushback on the city can you walk me through 1558 01:15:47,130 --> 01:15:47,880 the rationale 1559 01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:52,810 because wouldn't the height issue either way through an L35 1560 01:15:52,810 --> 01:15:54,199 or the SUP still 1561 01:15:54,199 --> 01:15:58,449 present the opportunity for some height pushback it seemed 1562 01:15:58,449 --> 01:15:59,399 like that is what 1563 01:15:59,399 --> 01:16:02,260 you were fearing can you help me out with that well my 1564 01:16:02,260 --> 01:16:04,600 concern in first-plus 1565 01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:07,310 was that if we required it to be a hundred percent air 1566 01:16:07,310 --> 01:16:08,279 condition that that 1567 01:16:08,279 --> 01:16:12,199 forced it to be tall that the city was pushing it that 1568 01:16:12,199 --> 01:16:13,439 direction and my 1569 01:16:13,439 --> 01:16:16,270 concern with it coming for our Commission being against 1570 01:16:16,270 --> 01:16:16,680 neighborhoods 1571 01:16:16,680 --> 01:16:19,060 because we've had a lot of discussion about that in the 1572 01:16:19,060 --> 01:16:20,039 last several months 1573 01:16:20,039 --> 01:16:24,090 and in other projects that have come before us it's been 1574 01:16:24,090 --> 01:16:25,039 the height in 1575 01:16:25,039 --> 01:16:28,119 neighborhoods and so my concern with making it a hundred 1576 01:16:28,119 --> 01:16:29,039 percent is that 1577 01:16:29,039 --> 01:16:32,409 we're almost pushing projects to become tall and then we're 1578 01:16:32,409 --> 01:16:33,560 gonna be right back 1579 01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:36,390 here going well I don't want a 65 foot tall storage 1580 01:16:36,390 --> 01:16:37,880 building looking in my 1581 01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:41,420 backyard okay and so that's why I was thinking that we may 1582 01:16:41,420 --> 01:16:42,479 want to pull that 1583 01:16:42,479 --> 01:16:46,250 out and kind of sound like the direction you're going you 1584 01:16:46,250 --> 01:16:47,840 have an SUP and all of 1585 01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:51,439 those things that are being proposed here can be proposed 1586 01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:52,479 in an SUP if it's 1587 01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:56,670 appropriate for the site but it can be somewhat I think 1588 01:16:56,670 --> 01:16:59,279 each site on initial 1589 01:16:59,279 --> 01:17:03,380 thought is that each site thing can be kind of customized 1590 01:17:03,380 --> 01:17:04,760 and whatever this 1591 01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:08,920 site specific issues or problems access design criteria it 1592 01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:09,960 's against the 1593 01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:13,689 neighborhood it's against other you know commercial uses 1594 01:17:13,689 --> 01:17:14,319 you have the 1595 01:17:14,319 --> 01:17:18,050 flexibility to design versus we have kind of where you were 1596 01:17:18,050 --> 01:17:19,600 going a broad 1597 01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:22,640 brush these are all the things that you have to do and they 1598 01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:23,640 may be appropriate 1599 01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:26,680 in some places and they may not be appropriate in others 1600 01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:27,840 and that's where I 1601 01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:32,930 was going with the L35 requirement is it seems to be 1602 01:17:32,930 --> 01:17:34,800 pushing things all kind of 1603 01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:39,409 into one box versus an SUP purposes to give us flexibility 1604 01:17:39,409 --> 01:17:41,159 for each individual 1605 01:17:41,159 --> 01:17:43,460 site so that's where I was going I don't know if that 1606 01:17:43,460 --> 01:17:44,560 answers your question 1607 01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:47,609 where I was going yeah it answers me perfectly I appreciate 1608 01:17:47,609 --> 01:17:48,319 that so my 1609 01:17:48,319 --> 01:17:51,619 leaning would just be a simplify this and and allow self 1610 01:17:51,619 --> 01:17:53,560 storage units in zone 1611 01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:58,649 SMG by SUP I personally would would leave off the ECC CI 1612 01:17:58,649 --> 01:17:59,600 requirement for 1613 01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:03,840 SUP I don't see that as a need right now but I think this 1614 01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:05,640 might might be well 1615 01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:10,840 simplified just to the amendment be SUP for that on the 1616 01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:12,520 commercial CMG zone 1617 01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:15,409 that's where what I would be leaning considering all the 1618 01:18:15,409 --> 01:18:16,520 things we've talked 1619 01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:21,380 about this far I think that's reasonable any other 1620 01:18:21,380 --> 01:18:22,680 questions for the applicant 1621 01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:28,090 and then we can move on to maybe more discussion here on 1622 01:18:28,090 --> 01:18:32,239 the Commission yes 1623 01:18:32,239 --> 01:18:36,199 thank you sir thank you Mr. Chair 1624 01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:40,600 with that this is a public hearing is there anyone who 1625 01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:42,159 would like to come 1626 01:18:42,159 --> 01:18:48,140 forward and speak on this item seeing none I will close the 1627 01:18:48,140 --> 01:18:49,520 public hearing and 1628 01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:52,939 open the floor for discussion Commissioner Beck thank you 1629 01:18:52,939 --> 01:18:55,199 chair again 1630 01:18:55,199 --> 01:18:59,069 it seems to me the concern about a tall building in a 1631 01:18:59,069 --> 01:19:00,439 neighborhood is a 1632 01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:04,390 legitimate concern if we're looking at a park 7 situation 1633 01:19:04,390 --> 01:19:05,680 but when you get into 1634 01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:09,810 an area where you're along a major arterial and you're in a 1635 01:19:09,810 --> 01:19:11,079 zone anyway CMJ 1636 01:19:11,079 --> 01:19:15,640 allows 65 feet was it okay so you're gonna you're looking 1637 01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:16,079 at four or five 1638 01:19:16,079 --> 01:19:18,920 stories anyway when you're looking at tall buildings near 1639 01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:19,760 neighborhoods if 1640 01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:24,199 you've got height or it goes down into the neighborhood our 1641 01:19:24,199 --> 01:19:25,359 problem with at 1642 01:19:25,359 --> 01:19:29,260 least mine was with the park 7 thing is that it was going 1643 01:19:29,260 --> 01:19:31,680 to be among these one 1644 01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:35,409 and two story level buildings it wasn't at a major arterial 1645 01:19:35,409 --> 01:19:37,760 and it was odd for 1646 01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:41,829 that reason but most of the CMG districts I'm seeing here 1647 01:19:41,829 --> 01:19:43,600 are long major arterials 1648 01:19:43,600 --> 01:19:47,329 where as a commercial area you're gonna have some tall 1649 01:19:47,329 --> 01:19:49,159 buildings anyway they're 1650 01:19:49,159 --> 01:19:54,329 gonna be allowed by right so I really don't have a problem 1651 01:19:54,329 --> 01:19:56,720 with tall buildings 1652 01:19:56,720 --> 01:20:00,250 within a certain proximity to neighborhoods and maybe that 1653 01:20:00,250 --> 01:20:00,680 's something 1654 01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:03,729 we should consider if the CMG is deep enough say from the 1655 01:20:03,729 --> 01:20:05,039 main road to the 1656 01:20:05,039 --> 01:20:07,239 neighborhood that maybe there could be a hundred foot set 1657 01:20:07,239 --> 01:20:08,079 back or something like 1658 01:20:08,079 --> 01:20:11,449 that where they can't get any closer than that but again it 1659 01:20:11,449 --> 01:20:12,359 's not so much 1660 01:20:12,359 --> 01:20:16,229 tall buildings per se it's just tall buildings in the 1661 01:20:16,229 --> 01:20:17,720 middle of surrounded by 1662 01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:20,869 small buildings where if you're an area or a strip of land 1663 01:20:20,869 --> 01:20:22,039 where tall buildings 1664 01:20:22,039 --> 01:20:27,670 have or can be there by right then I'm not sure what the 1665 01:20:27,670 --> 01:20:30,199 argument is so just 1666 01:20:30,199 --> 01:20:33,079 some thoughts there okay 1667 01:20:42,359 --> 01:20:50,720 Commissioner Hussbeth question for legal for the amendment 1668 01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:54,600 to the code can we add 1669 01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:58,329 I don't know what the wording is specifically but what I'm 1670 01:20:58,329 --> 01:20:59,239 targeting is 1671 01:20:59,239 --> 01:21:06,109 we're talking about storage units and we're talking about a 1672 01:21:06,109 --> 01:21:07,199 propensity for 1673 01:21:07,199 --> 01:21:13,930 people to break in for people to leave stuff outside for 1674 01:21:13,930 --> 01:21:16,079 the ability for code 1675 01:21:16,079 --> 01:21:19,640 enforcement to get in what are the what are what is our 1676 01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:20,960 what are the city's 1677 01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:25,010 options in that regard so code enforcement drives by a 1678 01:21:25,010 --> 01:21:26,039 facility and 1679 01:21:26,039 --> 01:21:33,430 there's a couch laid out by the dumpster and looks unkept 1680 01:21:33,430 --> 01:21:35,239 can code enforcement go 1681 01:21:35,239 --> 01:21:37,609 on that property or is it just they take a picture from the 1682 01:21:37,609 --> 01:21:39,119 street normal process 1683 01:21:39,119 --> 01:21:45,399 how does that kind of work to maintain a gated facility 1684 01:21:45,399 --> 01:21:48,800 well I know that if they 1685 01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:51,840 see and in violation from the public right-of-way then they 1686 01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:52,600 have a right to 1687 01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:55,649 go up on the property or the curtilage if there is a no 1688 01:21:55,649 --> 01:21:57,199 trespass sign or a gate 1689 01:21:57,199 --> 01:22:01,810 then they have to seek consent from the owner generally 1690 01:22:01,810 --> 01:22:02,960 speaking unless there's 1691 01:22:02,960 --> 01:22:07,279 an emergency situation and I believe on all of the gated 1692 01:22:07,279 --> 01:22:09,039 lock or the gate locks 1693 01:22:09,039 --> 01:22:13,329 that they're required to give the code over I think that's 1694 01:22:13,329 --> 01:22:14,880 the case but I can't 1695 01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:17,960 say for sure but either way they would contact the owner 1696 01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:20,359 make contact and issue 1697 01:22:20,359 --> 01:22:24,840 a notice of violation or try to get voluntary compliance 1698 01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:29,199 okay thank you 1699 01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:33,539 well I'm just gonna throw out for discussion I think 1700 01:22:33,539 --> 01:22:34,520 initially we were 1701 01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:37,890 talking about wanting this to come back with work session 1702 01:22:37,890 --> 01:22:39,159 is that the direction 1703 01:22:39,159 --> 01:22:43,600 that the Commission would like or after discussion are we 1704 01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:45,239 comfortable to talk 1705 01:22:45,239 --> 01:22:48,069 about this and just clean up maybe some of this language 1706 01:22:48,069 --> 01:22:49,199 and move forward with a 1707 01:22:49,199 --> 01:22:51,600 motion 1708 01:22:57,199 --> 01:22:59,720 yeah 1709 01:23:01,239 --> 01:23:05,829 Commissioner Roselle as far as I can see it I don't know 1710 01:23:05,829 --> 01:23:08,079 what a work session 1711 01:23:08,079 --> 01:23:10,909 would add to clarity if there's a commissioner that might 1712 01:23:10,909 --> 01:23:11,399 be able to 1713 01:23:11,399 --> 01:23:14,460 enlighten me on what a work session would add to this I'd 1714 01:23:14,460 --> 01:23:15,520 be happy to try to 1715 01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:22,119 percolate that in my mind but as far as I see it I would I 1716 01:23:22,119 --> 01:23:24,399 would go ahead and 1717 01:23:24,399 --> 01:23:28,130 motion that we move forward with this code amendment but I 1718 01:23:28,130 --> 01:23:29,199 would I would put 1719 01:23:29,199 --> 01:23:33,800 forth that we make the amendment that self storage units 1720 01:23:33,800 --> 01:23:35,800 would be permitted in 1721 01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:40,489 CMG by SUP only and that'd be my full motion I would I 1722 01:23:40,489 --> 01:23:42,279 would exclude the 1723 01:23:42,279 --> 01:23:46,010 recommendation for ECI and ECC and just leave it simply at 1724 01:23:46,010 --> 01:23:47,840 that so that's where 1725 01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:52,039 where I am okay 1726 01:23:53,279 --> 01:23:57,010 Commissioner Ellis I'm gonna go ahead and second that 1727 01:23:57,010 --> 01:23:57,760 because that's actually 1728 01:23:57,760 --> 01:24:00,960 where I am too I think we talked so much about the code 1729 01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:03,039 being big and bulky and I 1730 01:24:03,039 --> 01:24:09,329 think L 35 makes it big and bulky and I think it gives us 1731 01:24:09,329 --> 01:24:11,560 the opportunity 1732 01:24:11,560 --> 01:24:14,680 do you have something to say Julie 1733 01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:19,960 use category to commercial land use category is that 1734 01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:22,640 something I did you 1735 01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:28,680 want to okay I'm sorry thanks for the clarification 1736 01:24:31,079 --> 01:24:35,029 having an SUP allowing it in CMG and then having the SUP 1737 01:24:35,029 --> 01:24:36,680 does give the 1738 01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:40,409 opportunity for it to be crafted for whatever the lot is 1739 01:24:40,409 --> 01:24:41,479 this particular lot 1740 01:24:41,479 --> 01:24:45,210 that the applicants talking about is not gonna is not gonna 1741 01:24:45,210 --> 01:24:46,239 be able to carry a 1742 01:24:46,239 --> 01:24:49,430 fully enclosed you know huge storage building like some of 1743 01:24:49,430 --> 01:24:50,079 the ones we 1744 01:24:50,079 --> 01:24:52,270 discussed in work session you know it's not even it's not 1745 01:24:52,270 --> 01:24:53,079 the kind of lot that 1746 01:24:53,079 --> 01:24:56,449 we would want to put that on so having the SUP on it would 1747 01:24:56,449 --> 01:24:57,880 allow us to to bring 1748 01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:01,180 it down to you know a single story or two story or whatever 1749 01:25:01,180 --> 01:25:02,119 and crafted around 1750 01:25:02,119 --> 01:25:07,279 that neighborhood so I'm I'm I'm comfortable with with 1751 01:25:07,279 --> 01:25:08,239 exactly that allowed 1752 01:25:08,239 --> 01:25:18,199 in CMG with an SUP Commissioner Tyler thank you chair so I 1753 01:25:18,199 --> 01:25:19,720 do think that 1754 01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:27,430 storage units have a propensity to attract crime debris 1755 01:25:27,430 --> 01:25:28,119 there's a reason 1756 01:25:28,119 --> 01:25:30,659 why they were zoned out of every single category that wasn 1757 01:25:30,659 --> 01:25:31,840 't industrial and 1758 01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:35,350 that's because you can look around in you know over off of 1759 01:25:35,350 --> 01:25:36,479 Fort Worth Drive 1760 01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:41,020 sorry Dallas Drive where they're they really damaged the 1761 01:25:41,020 --> 01:25:42,039 value of the 1762 01:25:42,039 --> 01:25:44,659 neighborhood the damage of the appearance they keep areas 1763 01:25:44,659 --> 01:25:45,640 depressed if 1764 01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:49,739 they're unattractive and poorly maintained it's hard to 1765 01:25:49,739 --> 01:25:50,720 force maintenance 1766 01:25:50,720 --> 01:25:55,239 it's hard to force security so they do lead to you know 1767 01:25:55,239 --> 01:25:58,600 crime and debris and so 1768 01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:01,000 I think I think that's an important thing we consider here 1769 01:26:01,000 --> 01:26:01,960 especially we 1770 01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:05,689 just you know open it wide open part of the reason why we 1771 01:26:05,689 --> 01:26:07,760 want additional 1772 01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:13,149 cosmetic and feature things like the climate control is it 1773 01:26:13,149 --> 01:26:14,279 it leads to a 1774 01:26:14,279 --> 01:26:18,239 better development requiring the masonry wall guarantees 1775 01:26:18,239 --> 01:26:20,560 that you know in an SUP 1776 01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:24,000 in maybe a neighborhood that doesn't have a strong 1777 01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:25,800 community to come out and 1778 01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:30,489 argue at the SUP doesn't get a metal building with a wood 1779 01:26:30,489 --> 01:26:31,920 fence around it 1780 01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:35,430 with no cameras and you know lights that shine in backyards 1781 01:26:35,430 --> 01:26:36,720 and stuff like that I 1782 01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:41,220 really do think that this is one of the one of the most 1783 01:26:41,220 --> 01:26:43,279 potentially damaging 1784 01:26:43,279 --> 01:26:47,649 types of development to to a neighborhood if it's put done 1785 01:26:47,649 --> 01:26:48,720 wrong so I 1786 01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:52,449 think we do want to have a baseline that says you know full 1787 01:26:52,449 --> 01:26:53,600 screening at the 1788 01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:57,789 ground level masonry construction ground level doors not 1789 01:26:57,789 --> 01:26:59,560 visible to the street or 1790 01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:04,489 from adjacent properties I like some climate controlled 1791 01:27:04,489 --> 01:27:06,840 aspect to it in CMG 1792 01:27:06,840 --> 01:27:10,569 because CMG is a retail use like this isn't like out out in 1793 01:27:10,569 --> 01:27:11,119 the middle of an 1794 01:27:11,119 --> 01:27:14,890 industrial park sure you can just have acres and acres of 1795 01:27:14,890 --> 01:27:15,760 squat metal 1796 01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:19,630 buildings but I think in you know when we're talking about 1797 01:27:19,630 --> 01:27:20,680 next to grocery 1798 01:27:20,680 --> 01:27:24,439 stores and next to retail we we want to make sure that it's 1799 01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:24,800 a high quality 1800 01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:28,670 development and I don't know if it is a certain percentage 1801 01:27:28,670 --> 01:27:29,920 should be climate 1802 01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:33,970 controlled or if we can word it so that here's what you 1803 01:27:33,970 --> 01:27:35,560 need here's what we 1804 01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:40,260 recommend but you can deviate that from that with an SGP I 1805 01:27:40,260 --> 01:27:41,720 know like on site 1806 01:27:41,720 --> 01:27:45,090 development plans we basically have ADPs that allow you to 1807 01:27:45,090 --> 01:27:46,039 to break some of the 1808 01:27:46,039 --> 01:27:49,310 rules but you have to come justify why you think you should 1809 01:27:49,310 --> 01:27:50,239 have no climate 1810 01:27:50,239 --> 01:27:53,970 control or less than 30% climate control or whatever and so 1811 01:27:53,970 --> 01:27:55,000 all of these issues 1812 01:27:55,000 --> 01:27:58,529 make me lean toward a work session because I think I would 1813 01:27:58,529 --> 01:27:59,439 I want to have 1814 01:27:59,439 --> 01:28:04,329 some protections for the neighborhood in there while still 1815 01:28:04,329 --> 01:28:06,039 allowing the use I 1816 01:28:06,039 --> 01:28:10,729 want to kind of enter a dialogue back and forth possibly 1817 01:28:10,729 --> 01:28:12,399 here as you pay and 1818 01:28:12,399 --> 01:28:18,689 maybe Julie can help me with this with the requirement for 1819 01:28:18,689 --> 01:28:20,159 an SGP all of those 1820 01:28:20,159 --> 01:28:25,949 things if I understand SUPs correctly can be imposed by 1821 01:28:25,949 --> 01:28:27,279 this Commission so if 1822 01:28:27,279 --> 01:28:31,800 it's depending on the site if we felt like if it was 20% AC 1823 01:28:31,800 --> 01:28:33,800 required or 50% or 1824 01:28:33,800 --> 01:28:38,869 hey the site lends itself to a hundred we don't have a box 1825 01:28:38,869 --> 01:28:40,399 then that every 1826 01:28:40,399 --> 01:28:44,130 project has to start from this particular point and has to 1827 01:28:44,130 --> 01:28:44,239 be 1828 01:28:44,239 --> 01:28:51,239 customized it's the landowner developer comes forth with 1829 01:28:51,239 --> 01:28:52,239 what their vision for 1830 01:28:52,239 --> 01:28:55,970 that is and and comes to staff staff works through them as 1831 01:28:55,970 --> 01:28:56,960 to what issues 1832 01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:59,260 they are as where their neighborhoods or whatever and would 1833 01:28:59,260 --> 01:29:00,119 make recommendation 1834 01:29:00,119 --> 01:29:03,399 we feel like it needs to be a maximum of two stories or 1835 01:29:03,399 --> 01:29:05,119 three stories it makes a 1836 01:29:05,119 --> 01:29:08,850 recommendation to this board and this board would decide we 1837 01:29:08,850 --> 01:29:09,760 agree with staff 1838 01:29:09,760 --> 01:29:14,439 we want to add to it subtract from it but that all is taken 1839 01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:14,960 care of and the 1840 01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:18,689 protection for each of those sites is covered with an SUP 1841 01:29:18,689 --> 01:29:19,800 am I understanding 1842 01:29:19,800 --> 01:29:23,880 that that correctly so chapter 6 does outline what 1843 01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:25,079 conditions can be placed 1844 01:29:25,079 --> 01:29:28,590 upon a use within an SUP okay and that includes the 1845 01:29:28,590 --> 01:29:30,359 regulation and limitation of 1846 01:29:30,359 --> 01:29:35,850 uses a regulation setbacks and spacing fences walls 1847 01:29:35,850 --> 01:29:37,159 requirement to submit a 1848 01:29:37,159 --> 01:29:41,439 development plat the limiting the magnitude of traffic 1849 01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:42,560 points of vehicular 1850 01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:45,390 access signs building materials textures colors and 1851 01:29:45,390 --> 01:29:46,680 architectural features 1852 01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:50,189 landscaping screening buffering noise vibration dust odors 1853 01:29:50,189 --> 01:29:50,840 or similar 1854 01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:54,899 nuisances hours of operation regulation of period of time 1855 01:29:54,899 --> 01:29:56,399 that the use shall be 1856 01:29:56,399 --> 01:30:01,079 developed duration of use environmentally sensitive areas 1857 01:30:01,079 --> 01:30:02,239 and any 1858 01:30:02,239 --> 01:30:06,949 site development condition permitted by sub chapter 13 so 1859 01:30:06,949 --> 01:30:08,720 the only one in our 1860 01:30:08,720 --> 01:30:13,359 backup it's not really covered in that is the AC pretty 1861 01:30:13,359 --> 01:30:14,279 much all the other 1862 01:30:14,279 --> 01:30:19,050 things glass materials setbacks all those items are covered 1863 01:30:19,050 --> 01:30:20,239 with that and in 1864 01:30:20,239 --> 01:30:29,829 my understanding what you just shared with us I like a yes 1865 01:30:29,829 --> 01:30:34,680 or no okay good so 1866 01:30:34,680 --> 01:30:43,239 I don't know it includes height as well so with that I'm at 1867 01:30:43,239 --> 01:30:44,239 this particular 1868 01:30:44,239 --> 01:30:47,180 point I'm leaning towards supporting the motion and think 1869 01:30:47,180 --> 01:30:48,279 that's a way for us to 1870 01:30:48,279 --> 01:30:52,010 move this on forward I'm open if other commissioners are 1871 01:30:52,010 --> 01:30:52,720 concerned and feel 1872 01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:54,649 like there needs to be more discussion that we need to do 1873 01:30:54,649 --> 01:30:55,239 something different 1874 01:30:55,239 --> 01:30:59,220 but I think with that description I'm comfortable with an 1875 01:30:59,220 --> 01:31:00,479 SUP and see where 1876 01:31:00,479 --> 01:31:05,579 this goes Commissioner Ellis thank you chair just to your 1877 01:31:05,579 --> 01:31:05,880 point 1878 01:31:05,880 --> 01:31:12,340 Commissioner Taylor my concern is even if we have a work 1879 01:31:12,340 --> 01:31:13,840 session that we might 1880 01:31:13,840 --> 01:31:17,210 leave something out or put something in that that we don't 1881 01:31:17,210 --> 01:31:17,960 necessarily want in 1882 01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:21,930 there and and to chairs point with an SUP we can be very 1883 01:31:21,930 --> 01:31:23,560 site specific about 1884 01:31:23,560 --> 01:31:27,289 what we want to craft in there and so I'm I'm just I don't 1885 01:31:27,289 --> 01:31:28,359 know if we're gonna 1886 01:31:28,359 --> 01:31:32,439 get any better you know than what we have presented you 1887 01:31:32,439 --> 01:31:33,960 know to L35 and if we 1888 01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:36,329 could actually come to a consensus if we try to list all of 1889 01:31:36,329 --> 01:31:37,079 these things in 1890 01:31:37,079 --> 01:31:40,180 certain percentages and I guess that's that's just where I 1891 01:31:40,180 --> 01:31:41,279 am and getting rid 1892 01:31:41,279 --> 01:31:44,439 of that limitation and leaving it to site specific and you 1893 01:31:44,439 --> 01:31:45,279 know as you see 1894 01:31:45,279 --> 01:31:50,159 discussion that's that's where my mind is on that 1895 01:31:54,119 --> 01:31:58,960 Commissioner Hutzpah just to make sure I'm tracking with 1896 01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:01,239 you so given that list 1897 01:32:01,239 --> 01:32:09,810 of things that is accessible by the SUP what what path does 1898 01:32:09,810 --> 01:32:12,039 that give us for the 1899 01:32:12,039 --> 01:32:22,880 AC control none okay well I think I'm with Commissioner 1900 01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:24,479 Taylor there needs to 1901 01:32:24,479 --> 01:32:29,970 be some access to require that so if we can fold that in 1902 01:32:29,970 --> 01:32:31,319 some sort of friendly 1903 01:32:31,319 --> 01:32:39,659 amendment I think to not have that access then becomes an 1904 01:32:39,659 --> 01:32:41,039 access to require 1905 01:32:41,039 --> 01:32:44,520 that then becomes onerous and and so it I could see an 1906 01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:46,319 applicant saying that's 1907 01:32:46,319 --> 01:32:49,149 not on the list of things that I have to discuss I'm not 1908 01:32:49,149 --> 01:32:50,159 going to discuss it and 1909 01:32:50,159 --> 01:32:55,390 and then that opens the door for nothing to have AC control 1910 01:32:55,390 --> 01:32:56,560 what is it I need a 1911 01:32:56,560 --> 01:33:02,229 mechanism that triggers that into the their SUP process or 1912 01:33:02,229 --> 01:33:03,840 into the to the 1913 01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:06,880 code because I'm hesitant all the way around the board to 1914 01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:07,680 write the code I'll 1915 01:33:07,680 --> 01:33:10,420 tell you because they're rewriting the code now so if there 1916 01:33:10,420 --> 01:33:11,000 are we have 1917 01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:14,210 consultants rewriting the code for us to spot rewrite the 1918 01:33:14,210 --> 01:33:15,479 code I need to feel a 1919 01:33:15,479 --> 01:33:18,850 little better about it because all this is subject to 1920 01:33:18,850 --> 01:33:20,720 change well I want to jump 1921 01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:23,260 in on one thing that may we're leaving out on the air 1922 01:33:23,260 --> 01:33:25,399 conditioning piece these 1923 01:33:25,399 --> 01:33:28,560 gentlemen are in the business to please their clientele 1924 01:33:28,560 --> 01:33:30,119 there may be clientele 1925 01:33:30,119 --> 01:33:34,539 that say we want air conditioned and they'll that's the pur 1926 01:33:34,539 --> 01:33:35,920 view it'll have it 1927 01:33:35,920 --> 01:33:39,649 in there and we as a governmental body don't have to impose 1928 01:33:39,649 --> 01:33:40,640 that to say you 1929 01:33:40,640 --> 01:33:43,720 will have this if the marketplace dictates that you know 1930 01:33:43,720 --> 01:33:44,680 what we have AC 1931 01:33:44,680 --> 01:33:51,560 I guarantee it's in there so Commissioner Beck thank you 1932 01:33:51,560 --> 01:33:52,079 chair my 1933 01:33:52,079 --> 01:33:55,810 thoughts were along the same line said Commissioner us was 1934 01:33:55,810 --> 01:33:56,920 just spelled out that 1935 01:33:56,920 --> 01:34:03,260 the SUP doesn't allow us that option to include AC go along 1936 01:34:03,260 --> 01:34:04,079 with what 1937 01:34:04,079 --> 01:34:06,989 Commissioner Taylor said I think you know when you enclose 1938 01:34:06,989 --> 01:34:07,880 something that's air 1939 01:34:07,880 --> 01:34:13,010 condition it does create an attractiveness that we want it 1940 01:34:13,010 --> 01:34:13,359 to have 1941 01:34:13,359 --> 01:34:20,119 in certain neighborhoods so I just to be clear then the SUP 1942 01:34:20,119 --> 01:34:21,920 would give us an 1943 01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:28,520 opportunity to include air conditioning would not okay then 1944 01:34:28,520 --> 01:34:29,520 again I would I 1945 01:34:29,520 --> 01:34:31,880 would probably go along with Commissioner Hudson and 1946 01:34:31,880 --> 01:34:32,560 Commissioner 1947 01:34:32,560 --> 01:34:36,119 Taylor on probably pushing this down the road a little bit 1948 01:34:36,119 --> 01:34:38,640 okay I guess the board 1949 01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:46,239 is in order Commissioner Rozelle thank you chair I'm trying 1950 01:34:46,239 --> 01:34:47,039 to think about if 1951 01:34:47,039 --> 01:34:50,119 we had an SUP that had a height requirement and we said 1952 01:34:50,119 --> 01:34:50,960 that the the 1953 01:34:50,960 --> 01:34:55,199 front of the facade needed to be 30 feet or whatever it is 1954 01:34:55,199 --> 01:34:56,279 I've never seen an 1955 01:34:56,279 --> 01:35:00,619 outdoor storage unit three stories tall so it seems like 1956 01:35:00,619 --> 01:35:01,600 that just the height 1957 01:35:01,600 --> 01:35:06,619 like we can dictate how high it goes we in the SUP it seems 1958 01:35:06,619 --> 01:35:08,239 like then we have 1959 01:35:08,239 --> 01:35:12,130 kind of a mechanism to to more or less imply climate 1960 01:35:12,130 --> 01:35:14,000 control is gonna exist 1961 01:35:14,000 --> 01:35:17,229 unless there's people out that have like open three story 1962 01:35:17,229 --> 01:35:18,560 structures for storage 1963 01:35:18,560 --> 01:35:23,420 units I just I can't envision a multi-story self storage 1964 01:35:23,420 --> 01:35:24,319 unit not having 1965 01:35:24,319 --> 01:35:28,640 AC so it seems like the SUP could could get us thus far but 1966 01:35:28,640 --> 01:35:29,640 I also agree with the 1967 01:35:29,640 --> 01:35:36,510 chair if it needs AC it'll have it'll have AC but I do 1968 01:35:36,510 --> 01:35:37,439 validate Commissioner 1969 01:35:37,439 --> 01:35:42,930 Taylor's point about trying to provide some sort of shell 1970 01:35:42,930 --> 01:35:44,640 to encourage the best 1971 01:35:44,640 --> 01:35:47,909 we can as a commission the protection of the neighborhood I 1972 01:35:47,909 --> 01:35:48,640 totally get that and 1973 01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:53,279 I think that's valid I just to have a work session to come 1974 01:35:53,279 --> 01:35:55,039 up with with a code 1975 01:35:55,039 --> 01:36:01,329 change that could be what we got here seven limitations 1976 01:36:01,329 --> 01:36:02,840 long I'm all for it 1977 01:36:02,840 --> 01:36:04,960 I'll be happy to I mean obviously I would sit in and 1978 01:36:04,960 --> 01:36:06,720 participate I just 1979 01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:09,770 don't know if it's it's needed but I have one question for 1980 01:36:09,770 --> 01:36:13,319 staff miss Wyatt 1981 01:36:14,359 --> 01:36:19,850 an SUP does not allow it seems for us to regulate or force 1982 01:36:19,850 --> 01:36:21,720 climate control if 1983 01:36:21,720 --> 01:36:27,210 there is a limitation in 35 if if we included that 1984 01:36:27,210 --> 01:36:30,239 limitation in 35 could the 1985 01:36:30,239 --> 01:36:33,090 commission at any point change that requirement so for 1986 01:36:33,090 --> 01:36:34,159 instance if we said 1987 01:36:34,159 --> 01:36:40,520 any structure for self storage unit has to have 20% climate 1988 01:36:40,520 --> 01:36:41,840 controlled area if 1989 01:36:41,840 --> 01:36:45,279 you're saying an SUP can't touch that then that would be 1990 01:36:45,279 --> 01:36:46,479 the rule of the land 1991 01:36:46,479 --> 01:36:49,850 would be 20% correct that's my understanding yes so I have 1992 01:36:49,850 --> 01:36:50,000 some 1993 01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:55,109 serious concerns codifying that then I just wanted to 1994 01:36:55,109 --> 01:36:56,239 answer your point yes it 1995 01:36:56,239 --> 01:37:00,880 could be greater than that but not less perfect thank you 1996 01:37:00,880 --> 01:37:03,800 so if we said a minimum 1997 01:37:03,800 --> 01:37:06,729 that puts a lot of weight on us that we get that minimum 1998 01:37:06,729 --> 01:37:07,800 right and so we're 1999 01:37:07,800 --> 01:37:11,270 gonna err on a low minimum it's gonna be 10% 5% then at 2000 01:37:11,270 --> 01:37:13,279 what point it seems like 2001 01:37:13,279 --> 01:37:18,909 since we have limitations to direct climate controlled 2002 01:37:18,909 --> 01:37:20,800 requirements anyways 2003 01:37:20,800 --> 01:37:25,090 then I'm even more inclined not to put that as a direct 2004 01:37:25,090 --> 01:37:27,560 limitation but but 2005 01:37:27,560 --> 01:37:31,079 rather let the applicant decide what the market will bear 2006 01:37:31,079 --> 01:37:32,439 and what would be best 2007 01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:36,310 serving the clients and so considering that kind of control 2008 01:37:36,310 --> 01:37:37,439 is kind of off the 2009 01:37:37,439 --> 01:37:41,220 table to me in every sense in terms of enforcing it unless 2010 01:37:41,220 --> 01:37:41,699 we said just a 2011 01:37:41,699 --> 01:37:46,560 minimum I still move forward with the motion and if it gets 2012 01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:47,680 halted then we'll 2013 01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:50,170 have a work session see if we can come up with a minimum 2014 01:37:50,170 --> 01:37:51,800 percentage commissioner 2015 01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:59,060 Hatchbuth to your to your point chair thank you again if we 2016 01:37:59,060 --> 01:38:00,520 're talking if we're 2017 01:38:00,520 --> 01:38:03,680 rolling this back and talking a specific project sure I 2018 01:38:03,680 --> 01:38:05,399 think you know that's one 2019 01:38:05,399 --> 01:38:09,439 thing but to open the door for every person that ever comes 2020 01:38:09,439 --> 01:38:11,159 before us that's 2021 01:38:11,159 --> 01:38:14,600 where I draw the line because there are people that think 2022 01:38:14,600 --> 01:38:15,600 hey my car shouldn't 2023 01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:17,689 be required to have this that or the other my property 2024 01:38:17,689 --> 01:38:18,760 shouldn't require this 2025 01:38:18,760 --> 01:38:21,359 that or the other and there's and there's those properties 2026 01:38:21,359 --> 01:38:21,840 and those 2027 01:38:21,840 --> 01:38:25,149 storage facilities that it may be just driven by price the 2028 01:38:25,149 --> 01:38:26,239 market may bear a 2029 01:38:26,239 --> 01:38:30,109 lower price lower product and and does that mean it's okay 2030 01:38:30,109 --> 01:38:31,199 to put that back to 2031 01:38:31,199 --> 01:38:36,609 neighborhood because I have I mean there's a lot of other 2032 01:38:36,609 --> 01:38:38,399 for all the good 2033 01:38:38,399 --> 01:38:40,779 this property has there's a lot of bad there's a wooden 2034 01:38:40,779 --> 01:38:41,479 area we have an 2035 01:38:41,479 --> 01:38:44,310 increased homeless population where I mean you can get me 2036 01:38:44,310 --> 01:38:45,640 going down a hill 2037 01:38:45,640 --> 01:38:49,600 that's pretty steep but I'm trying not to so because it's 2038 01:38:49,600 --> 01:38:50,760 not relevant to I'm 2039 01:38:50,760 --> 01:38:54,489 just saying if we're gonna kick the door wide open I want 2040 01:38:54,489 --> 01:38:57,520 to have some ability to 2041 01:38:57,520 --> 01:39:00,739 adjust that and I think that I'm amenable to some sort of 2042 01:39:00,739 --> 01:39:02,000 minimum that 2043 01:39:02,000 --> 01:39:07,279 then allows us to keep that door open so that we don't get 2044 01:39:07,279 --> 01:39:09,000 a particular person 2045 01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:10,960 that says oh that door is open I'm gonna run through it 2046 01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:11,840 with the cheapest thing 2047 01:39:11,840 --> 01:39:16,939 I can find to then provide affordability in the storage 2048 01:39:16,939 --> 01:39:17,960 market that's needed 2049 01:39:17,960 --> 01:39:23,119 right so I that's my only hesitation if we can come to to 2050 01:39:23,119 --> 01:39:24,560 quote for Fred Durst 2051 01:39:24,560 --> 01:39:27,859 if we can come to an agreeance with that respect then then 2052 01:39:27,859 --> 01:39:29,840 I think I'm good well 2053 01:39:29,840 --> 01:39:34,390 since you pointed a question at me I'm not kicking the door 2054 01:39:34,390 --> 01:39:35,359 open and I'll think 2055 01:39:35,359 --> 01:39:39,529 Commissioner Rosales with this motion it requires an SUP so 2056 01:39:39,529 --> 01:39:40,920 each project that 2057 01:39:40,920 --> 01:39:45,199 comes before this Commission and and Commissioners after us 2058 01:39:45,199 --> 01:39:46,680 every project is 2059 01:39:46,680 --> 01:39:50,199 going to be voted on based on what the criteria are and 2060 01:39:50,199 --> 01:39:51,680 this Commission will 2061 01:39:51,680 --> 01:39:54,829 have the power and the authority based on the list that 2062 01:39:54,829 --> 01:39:55,960 Julie gave us to say 2063 01:39:55,960 --> 01:39:58,699 this is what your project will have or won't have or you 2064 01:39:58,699 --> 01:39:59,680 don't get an SUP and 2065 01:39:59,680 --> 01:40:02,609 you don't get to build it and so I think there is a great 2066 01:40:02,609 --> 01:40:03,920 amount of protection 2067 01:40:03,920 --> 01:40:09,039 with an SUP in that regard for all projects and it gives 2068 01:40:09,039 --> 01:40:10,079 this Commission 2069 01:40:10,079 --> 01:40:14,850 flexibility to let people be creative and come up with 2070 01:40:14,850 --> 01:40:16,840 unique solutions for 2071 01:40:16,840 --> 01:40:19,880 individual sites and if this Commission feels like those 2072 01:40:19,880 --> 01:40:21,239 are reasonable they can 2073 01:40:21,239 --> 01:40:23,939 grant them and if they feel like there are some changes 2074 01:40:23,939 --> 01:40:24,960 that need to be made 2075 01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:28,159 then those conditions can be imposed on each individual 2076 01:40:28,159 --> 01:40:29,399 property to make it 2077 01:40:29,399 --> 01:40:31,579 where it will pass this Commission and so that's where I 2078 01:40:31,579 --> 01:40:32,520 would think it would 2079 01:40:32,520 --> 01:40:37,239 have some quite a bit of restrictions on it. Staff I think 2080 01:40:37,239 --> 01:40:38,840 legal wants to chime in. 2081 01:40:38,840 --> 01:40:41,899 I just want to make the board aware that there is a catch- 2082 01:40:41,899 --> 01:40:43,979 all provision on the SUP 2083 01:40:43,979 --> 01:40:49,680 requirement under 35.6.5 it's under subsection P and it's 2084 01:40:49,680 --> 01:40:50,399 in addition to the 2085 01:40:50,399 --> 01:40:53,229 other criteria you can make such other conditions as will 2086 01:40:53,229 --> 01:40:54,119 make possible the 2087 01:40:54,119 --> 01:40:57,060 development of the city in an orderly and efficient manner 2088 01:40:57,060 --> 01:40:58,000 and in accordance 2089 01:40:58,000 --> 01:41:00,300 with the provisions of the SUP chapter that are reasonable 2090 01:41:00,300 --> 01:41:01,520 so that's going to 2091 01:41:01,520 --> 01:41:07,090 be allowing you great latitude in your conditions that you 2092 01:41:07,090 --> 01:41:09,520 impose. Thank you. 2093 01:41:09,520 --> 01:41:13,680 Commissioner Tyler. Thank you Chair. I did have a question 2094 01:41:13,680 --> 01:41:16,680 for Julie. 2095 01:41:19,279 --> 01:41:23,010 Would it be feasible to do something along the lines of an 2096 01:41:23,010 --> 01:41:24,920 ADP where there is 2097 01:41:24,920 --> 01:41:30,810 a baseline set that can be varied from for a use like 2098 01:41:30,810 --> 01:41:34,819 storage units? So the ADP 2099 01:41:34,819 --> 01:41:39,220 process gives site design plans and you can basically throw 2100 01:41:39,220 --> 01:41:40,439 out any of those 2101 01:41:40,439 --> 01:41:44,340 restrictions if you get approval for your ADP or a wide 2102 01:41:44,340 --> 01:41:45,640 variety of those 2103 01:41:45,640 --> 01:41:48,640 restrictions can be changed. 2104 01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:56,159 So we could amend the site design criteria for storage 2105 01:41:56,159 --> 01:41:58,319 units. Thank you. 2106 01:41:58,319 --> 01:42:02,500 So to the reason I'm asking that question is because the 2107 01:42:02,500 --> 01:42:03,680 risk I see here 2108 01:42:03,680 --> 01:42:07,170 is five years from now people won't know member of this 2109 01:42:07,170 --> 01:42:08,439 commission will remember 2110 01:42:08,439 --> 01:42:13,560 conversations about 20% or 50% air-conditioned or the mason 2111 01:42:13,560 --> 01:42:13,840 ry 2112 01:42:13,840 --> 01:42:18,199 screening or fenestrations they'll just see there's an SUP 2113 01:42:18,199 --> 01:42:19,479 and if it's if it's 2114 01:42:19,479 --> 01:42:23,939 in a neighborhood that has a very active community that 2115 01:42:23,939 --> 01:42:25,640 community will show up in 2116 01:42:25,640 --> 01:42:28,489 force and they will demand light restrictions and fencing 2117 01:42:28,489 --> 01:42:29,159 and masonry 2118 01:42:29,159 --> 01:42:33,199 construction but if it's in a neighbor if it's in a new 2119 01:42:33,199 --> 01:42:34,439 area that doesn't 2120 01:42:34,439 --> 01:42:37,500 have a neighborhood yet or if it's in a neighborhood that 2121 01:42:37,500 --> 01:42:38,560 is less politically 2122 01:42:38,560 --> 01:42:42,920 active then we will start at the baseline of what our code 2123 01:42:42,920 --> 01:42:44,199 says. So right 2124 01:42:44,199 --> 01:42:48,930 now the code will say any building material no screening 2125 01:42:48,930 --> 01:42:49,920 required you know 2126 01:42:49,920 --> 01:42:52,770 bay doors facing any direction no mention of air 2127 01:42:52,770 --> 01:42:55,319 conditioning anything the 2128 01:42:55,319 --> 01:42:57,619 five years from now the Commission won't even think about 2129 01:42:57,619 --> 01:42:58,600 putting a restriction 2130 01:42:58,600 --> 01:43:01,869 on air conditioning they might put a restriction on height 2131 01:43:01,869 --> 01:43:04,479 maybe but those so 2132 01:43:04,479 --> 01:43:08,210 if we don't have these base kind of levels of protection 2133 01:43:08,210 --> 01:43:09,560 and I think we can 2134 01:43:09,560 --> 01:43:13,720 say that every neighborhood deserves full wall screening 2135 01:43:13,720 --> 01:43:14,960 from bay doors we 2136 01:43:14,960 --> 01:43:18,260 don't want any bay doors on the ground floor visible from 2137 01:43:18,260 --> 01:43:19,600 adjacent properties 2138 01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:23,079 or the street or you can even say residential properties or 2139 01:43:23,079 --> 01:43:24,720 the street you 2140 01:43:24,720 --> 01:43:28,590 know the the landscape buffer requirements all of those you 2141 01:43:28,590 --> 01:43:29,039 know we're 2142 01:43:29,039 --> 01:43:33,239 we're looking at this one thing about possible height and 2143 01:43:33,239 --> 01:43:34,439 we're I think we're 2144 01:43:34,439 --> 01:43:38,439 ignoring a lot of the other potential risks with this use 2145 01:43:38,439 --> 01:43:39,720 so I would like to 2146 01:43:39,720 --> 01:43:43,090 if we're if we're moving forward tonight then I really do 2147 01:43:43,090 --> 01:43:44,560 want to reinstate the 2148 01:43:44,560 --> 01:43:48,319 masonry construction the no visible bay doors on the ground 2149 01:43:48,319 --> 01:43:49,920 floor and the 2150 01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:55,409 landscape buffer and the fencing materials. I have a 2151 01:43:55,409 --> 01:43:57,640 question for staff I 2152 01:43:57,640 --> 01:44:01,850 think if I understand Commissioner Taylor's concerns are 2153 01:44:01,850 --> 01:44:02,960 there not 2154 01:44:02,960 --> 01:44:07,359 universal requirements with buffering and screening with CM 2155 01:44:07,359 --> 01:44:08,079 G against 2156 01:44:08,079 --> 01:44:10,630 neighborhoods so it's not just a free-for-all there are 2157 01:44:10,630 --> 01:44:11,359 requirements 2158 01:44:11,359 --> 01:44:16,189 regardless of what we do here that that development would 2159 01:44:16,189 --> 01:44:17,279 have to meet. 2160 01:44:17,279 --> 01:44:22,770 Landscape buffering walls all those types of things in 2161 01:44:22,770 --> 01:44:24,279 regards to CMG being 2162 01:44:24,279 --> 01:44:27,329 against the neighborhood. They would have to they would 2163 01:44:27,329 --> 01:44:28,159 have to meet sub chapter 2164 01:44:28,159 --> 01:44:31,010 13 and yes there are buffer requirements between commercial 2165 01:44:31,010 --> 01:44:32,199 uses and residential 2166 01:44:32,199 --> 01:44:37,689 I believe it's a type C buffer which is a 15 foot buffer 2167 01:44:37,689 --> 01:44:39,159 there aren't any 2168 01:44:39,159 --> 01:44:44,250 masonry wall requirements there we do have perimeter fences 2169 01:44:44,250 --> 01:44:45,600 that are that we 2170 01:44:45,600 --> 01:44:51,090 have perimeter fence materials which include they can be 2171 01:44:51,090 --> 01:44:52,039 wood, wrought iron, 2172 01:44:52,039 --> 01:44:55,079 masonry, brick, vinyl, PVC or composite materials so those 2173 01:44:55,079 --> 01:44:56,159 are perimeter fence 2174 01:44:56,159 --> 01:45:00,119 materials we don't have any requirements for it but that is 2175 01:45:00,119 --> 01:45:01,600 that is 2176 01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:09,460 and then part of staff working with the applicant in order 2177 01:45:09,460 --> 01:45:12,989 to move the use from the industrial use tables to the 2178 01:45:12,989 --> 01:45:16,069 commercial use tables is that some of those site design 2179 01:45:16,069 --> 01:45:20,199 requirements in sub chapter 13 industrial uses are exempt 2180 01:45:20,199 --> 01:45:23,560 from and so to move those to the commercial use tables 2181 01:45:23,560 --> 01:45:28,119 would then require them to at a minimum follow the 2182 01:45:28,119 --> 01:45:30,720 commercial site design requirements. 2183 01:45:30,720 --> 01:45:34,439 That includes building materials. 2184 01:45:41,119 --> 01:45:46,850 It includes building materials standards on articulation, 2185 01:45:46,850 --> 01:45:55,960 orientation, trash storage areas, screening so so that was 2186 01:45:55,960 --> 01:45:58,439 the intent of moving that from the commercial to or from 2187 01:45:58,439 --> 01:45:59,680 the industrial to the commercial. 2188 01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:06,100 The minimum I mean the building materials I can tell you 2189 01:46:06,100 --> 01:46:08,079 what they are. 2190 01:46:08,079 --> 01:46:11,140 So fronts and street sides of buildings visible from the 2191 01:46:11,140 --> 01:46:12,239 public right of way 2192 01:46:12,239 --> 01:46:14,859 shall be non-reflective and shall be of wood, masonry, 2193 01:46:14,859 --> 01:46:16,279 stone, decorative block, 2194 01:46:16,279 --> 01:46:20,010 stucco, HDO board or other high quality material custom 2195 01:46:20,010 --> 01:46:21,079 arily used for the 2196 01:46:21,079 --> 01:46:23,680 building style. 2197 01:46:23,680 --> 01:46:27,439 So no metal buildings? 2198 01:46:28,439 --> 01:46:31,439 Metal buildings are customary for storage units. 2199 01:46:31,439 --> 01:46:32,720 You can't do that though. 2200 01:46:32,720 --> 01:46:35,720 It says customary for the building type. 2201 01:46:37,720 --> 01:46:40,319 Typically we don't see metal buildings in commercial areas 2202 01:46:40,319 --> 01:46:48,840 but the code I mean it so yeah it we don't typically see 2203 01:46:48,840 --> 01:46:50,720 metal in commercial areas. 2204 01:46:50,720 --> 01:46:54,140 I don't know if you're comfortable moving forward this or 2205 01:46:54,140 --> 01:46:57,350 not I'm trying to reach consensus and be able to move it 2206 01:46:57,350 --> 01:46:58,720 forward if we can. 2207 01:46:58,720 --> 01:47:01,720 If it's not it will be possible. 2208 01:47:01,720 --> 01:47:03,720 I understand that so. 2209 01:47:03,720 --> 01:47:06,720 Did you want to do a motion for postponement? 2210 01:47:09,720 --> 01:47:14,720 Well is the motioner open to a friendly amendment? 2211 01:47:19,720 --> 01:47:22,720 Saying I'm unamendable sounds so mean. 2212 01:47:24,720 --> 01:47:28,720 But I'm not and here's my thoughts. 2213 01:47:28,720 --> 01:47:31,800 Since I was on the board next anyways I'll go ahead and 2214 01:47:31,800 --> 01:47:32,720 take the floor. 2215 01:47:32,720 --> 01:47:33,720 Commissioner Rossell. 2216 01:47:33,720 --> 01:47:34,720 Thank you chair. 2217 01:47:34,720 --> 01:47:35,720 A couple things. 2218 01:47:35,720 --> 01:47:39,229 One way back Commissioner Hussbett said that we're kicking 2219 01:47:39,229 --> 01:47:40,720 down, kicking the door wide open. 2220 01:47:40,720 --> 01:47:44,449 And I think that's wholeheartedly a little off because we 2221 01:47:44,449 --> 01:47:48,079 're actually making sure no one builds by right and it comes 2222 01:47:48,079 --> 01:47:49,720 to staff to get an SEP. 2223 01:47:49,720 --> 01:47:52,630 So instead of us spending hours trying to think of the 2224 01:47:52,630 --> 01:47:56,720 exact shell that we want to put forth we're not omniscient. 2225 01:47:56,720 --> 01:47:59,770 We don't know what each plot's going to look like and so we 2226 01:47:59,770 --> 01:48:02,829 would then if we do a work session to find out exactly what 2227 01:48:02,829 --> 01:48:04,720 all limitations we want to put in. 2228 01:48:04,720 --> 01:48:07,770 We are then prescribing exactly how we think every 2229 01:48:07,770 --> 01:48:11,010 potential self storage unit in our city should be built 2230 01:48:11,010 --> 01:48:12,720 regardless of anything. 2231 01:48:12,720 --> 01:48:14,720 That's a broad stroke. 2232 01:48:14,720 --> 01:48:17,020 And so we could work a long time but we still could miss 2233 01:48:17,020 --> 01:48:17,720 something. 2234 01:48:17,720 --> 01:48:20,720 And what if we set the minimum for AC to hot. 2235 01:48:20,720 --> 01:48:23,430 There's just a lot of things that would pigeonhole 2236 01:48:23,430 --> 01:48:26,600 applicants from building where an SEP actually allows for 2237 01:48:26,600 --> 01:48:28,720 some creativity and flexibility. 2238 01:48:28,720 --> 01:48:32,819 And Commissioner Taylor's point earlier you talked about 2239 01:48:32,819 --> 01:48:37,199 individuals building metal structures or you elaborated 2240 01:48:37,199 --> 01:48:39,720 more squat houses and everything else. 2241 01:48:39,720 --> 01:48:42,550 But you also said in the work session that those generally 2242 01:48:42,550 --> 01:48:44,720 are just placeholders to flip the property. 2243 01:48:44,720 --> 01:48:49,149 And so it seems like there might be two different speaks 2244 01:48:49,149 --> 01:48:53,449 being said that you're against those per se but really you 2245 01:48:53,449 --> 01:48:54,720 know they're temporary. 2246 01:48:54,720 --> 01:48:57,170 Or at least you stated as such that the plan would be for 2247 01:48:57,170 --> 01:48:58,720 them to be temporary anyways. 2248 01:48:58,720 --> 01:49:00,789 So when it comes to it doesn't even sound like a middle 2249 01:49:00,789 --> 01:49:03,170 build metal building could be built anyways but it seems 2250 01:49:03,170 --> 01:49:05,720 like if someone's going to put up a cheap building 2251 01:49:05,720 --> 01:49:08,720 structure they are probably waiting to flip that property. 2252 01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:10,430 And so another development can come in because like you 2253 01:49:10,430 --> 01:49:11,720 said really easy to tear those down. 2254 01:49:11,720 --> 01:49:15,289 And so I'm not overly concerned about that because of the 2255 01:49:15,289 --> 01:49:18,720 point you brought up in terms of longevity of that. 2256 01:49:18,720 --> 01:49:22,770 And then the other point I have is in our backup we had 2257 01:49:22,770 --> 01:49:24,720 section 35 here. 2258 01:49:24,720 --> 01:49:26,720 I don't know if it's an exhausted list of everything. 2259 01:49:26,720 --> 01:49:30,600 It looks like it could be pretty exhaustive but as we're 2260 01:49:30,600 --> 01:49:35,060 talking I stopped counting at about 102 SUP cases in the 2261 01:49:35,060 --> 01:49:35,720 city. 2262 01:49:35,720 --> 01:49:39,020 Now Commissioner Taylor I know you believe that SUPs are 2263 01:49:39,020 --> 01:49:42,020 okay but you're also saying that in five years what is that 2264 01:49:42,020 --> 01:49:42,720 person going to think? 2265 01:49:42,720 --> 01:49:45,720 What is the commission going to do? 2266 01:49:45,720 --> 01:49:46,720 But we have SUPs. 2267 01:49:46,720 --> 01:49:49,760 It's not like this crazy thing to say we don't need an SUP 2268 01:49:49,760 --> 01:49:52,520 here because in five or seven years we don't know if we can 2269 01:49:52,520 --> 01:49:54,720 trust the commission at that point to know what's going on. 2270 01:49:54,720 --> 01:49:59,229 But yet in over 100 other cases historically and even us 2271 01:49:59,229 --> 01:50:01,720 have agreed that SUPs are okay. 2272 01:50:01,720 --> 01:50:05,449 So SUPs are known in the city and I feel that it's not like 2273 01:50:05,449 --> 01:50:11,180 thinking out like the way I heard it said from you is an SU 2274 01:50:11,180 --> 01:50:13,720 P provides this base level. 2275 01:50:13,720 --> 01:50:15,880 We're going to start at something that there's a new 2276 01:50:15,880 --> 01:50:16,720 neighborhood. 2277 01:50:16,720 --> 01:50:19,449 They don't know what to do as if the council and the 2278 01:50:19,449 --> 01:50:22,649 commission a decade from now is going to be ignorant to how 2279 01:50:22,649 --> 01:50:25,859 to facilitate a structure being built within CMG for self 2280 01:50:25,859 --> 01:50:26,720 storage. 2281 01:50:26,720 --> 01:50:31,819 So I think the idea of having self storage units permitted 2282 01:50:31,819 --> 01:50:36,699 by SUP in CMG is in alignment with a lot of other SUPs that 2283 01:50:36,699 --> 01:50:40,720 we have without adding a ton of limitations. 2284 01:50:40,720 --> 01:50:45,970 And further it seems like with legal's opinion we would 2285 01:50:45,970 --> 01:50:51,470 have some leverage to put into the SUP the climate control 2286 01:50:51,470 --> 01:50:52,720 portion. 2287 01:50:52,720 --> 01:50:58,130 So I feel pretty strongly that CMG with SUP is appropriate 2288 01:50:58,130 --> 01:51:03,600 and it provides this commission and the staff really great 2289 01:51:03,600 --> 01:51:08,699 power to construct a good project going forward on any 2290 01:51:08,699 --> 01:51:13,689 property regardless of the shape or size or where it's 2291 01:51:13,689 --> 01:51:15,720 located in the city. 2292 01:51:15,720 --> 01:51:17,720 Commissioner Taylor. 2293 01:51:17,720 --> 01:51:25,279 I move we amend the motion to also require an SUP in ECI 2294 01:51:25,279 --> 01:51:29,720 and ECC zoning categories. 2295 01:51:29,720 --> 01:51:32,720 Does that come back to me? 2296 01:51:32,720 --> 01:51:34,720 Commissioner Rossell. 2297 01:51:34,720 --> 01:51:36,720 Does that supersede the motion on the table? 2298 01:51:36,720 --> 01:51:39,720 Yes, an amendment would supersede your motion. 2299 01:51:39,720 --> 01:51:44,720 So we need a second on that. 2300 01:51:44,720 --> 01:51:48,720 But we have a motion. 2301 01:51:48,720 --> 01:51:49,720 I'm not going to second that and let me tell you why. 2302 01:51:49,720 --> 01:51:52,720 We had an applicant who brought this forth. 2303 01:51:52,720 --> 01:51:56,770 The applicant brought it forth as CMG and I believe his 2304 01:51:56,770 --> 01:52:01,180 point to this commission was staff added these other areas 2305 01:52:01,180 --> 01:52:01,720 on. 2306 01:52:01,720 --> 01:52:04,810 And I think when we have someone who takes the time and the 2307 01:52:04,810 --> 01:52:08,159 due diligence to come before us and bring a matter, I think 2308 01:52:08,159 --> 01:52:11,520 we should honor that and keep it there rather than we go 2309 01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:13,720 off into a whole lot of other areas. 2310 01:52:13,720 --> 01:52:16,720 So I'm not willing to second it. 2311 01:52:16,720 --> 01:52:20,170 I'm going to go with the CMG with the SUP and I think that 2312 01:52:20,170 --> 01:52:23,590 's a good way for us to address their issue that's more 2313 01:52:23,590 --> 01:52:27,229 pressing and also give us the flexibility that we talked 2314 01:52:27,229 --> 01:52:28,720 about earlier. 2315 01:52:28,720 --> 01:52:38,229 So is there a second for Commissioner Taylor's friendly 2316 01:52:38,229 --> 01:52:40,720 amendment? 2317 01:52:40,720 --> 01:52:41,720 Seeing none. 2318 01:52:41,720 --> 01:52:45,619 It dies and we will revert back to the motion that we have 2319 01:52:45,619 --> 01:52:47,720 a first and a second before us. 2320 01:52:47,720 --> 01:52:51,510 And Commissioner Taylor, before I call on the vote, I will 2321 01:52:51,510 --> 01:52:52,720 recognize you. 2322 01:52:52,720 --> 01:52:53,720 Thank you, Chair. 2323 01:52:53,720 --> 01:53:03,720 I move we amend the motion to reinstate requirements one, 2324 01:53:03,720 --> 01:53:06,720 three, and five as originally proposed. 2325 01:53:06,720 --> 01:53:11,390 That's 100% masonry stone or architecture or concrete block 2326 01:53:11,390 --> 01:53:11,720 . 2327 01:53:11,720 --> 01:53:14,770 No overhead bay doors or storage unit doors visible from 2328 01:53:14,770 --> 01:53:16,720 adjacent properties right away. 2329 01:53:16,720 --> 01:53:22,779 And proposed fencing materials will be masonry or wrought 2330 01:53:22,779 --> 01:53:23,720 iron. 2331 01:53:23,720 --> 01:53:24,720 Commissioner Bec. 2332 01:53:24,720 --> 01:53:28,720 I can second that. 2333 01:53:28,720 --> 01:53:29,720 Okay. 2334 01:53:29,720 --> 01:53:35,579 So we have a first and a second to add those extra items on 2335 01:53:35,579 --> 01:53:36,720 there. 2336 01:53:36,720 --> 01:53:38,420 We will vote on that measure first and see if it passes or 2337 01:53:38,420 --> 01:53:39,720 fails legal and then come back to the -- 2338 01:53:39,720 --> 01:53:40,720 That's correct. 2339 01:53:40,720 --> 01:53:41,720 Okay. 2340 01:53:41,720 --> 01:53:47,210 So we have that motion by Commissioner Taylor, seconded by 2341 01:53:47,210 --> 01:53:51,720 Commissioner Bec to add item one, three, and five. 2342 01:53:51,720 --> 01:53:53,720 I will call for Commissioner Roselle. 2343 01:53:53,720 --> 01:53:56,760 Just for clarification, Commissioner Taylor spoke earlier 2344 01:53:56,760 --> 01:53:59,720 about having that third item limited to first floor only. 2345 01:53:59,720 --> 01:54:01,720 Are you not including that on this one? 2346 01:54:01,720 --> 01:54:02,720 First floor, yeah, I'm sorry. 2347 01:54:02,720 --> 01:54:03,720 Okay. 2348 01:54:03,720 --> 01:54:06,020 So to clarify, third, item three, no overhead bay doors and 2349 01:54:06,020 --> 01:54:08,170 storage unit doors visible from adjacent property or public 2350 01:54:08,170 --> 01:54:09,720 right away on the first floor. 2351 01:54:09,720 --> 01:54:11,720 Okay. 2352 01:54:11,720 --> 01:54:13,720 We have a first and a second. 2353 01:54:13,720 --> 01:54:15,720 I'm going to make a comment again. 2354 01:54:15,720 --> 01:54:19,449 Before you do that, Commissioner Bec, are you still second 2355 01:54:19,449 --> 01:54:20,720 ing that change? 2356 01:54:20,720 --> 01:54:21,720 Yes. 2357 01:54:21,720 --> 01:54:23,720 Okay. 2358 01:54:23,720 --> 01:54:27,449 I'm not in favor of amending and adding those things for 2359 01:54:27,449 --> 01:54:29,720 the same reasons we have in SUP. 2360 01:54:29,720 --> 01:54:33,689 And I am concerned about, again, going down the road of 2361 01:54:33,689 --> 01:54:37,720 putting all these things on that then when it comes back, 2362 01:54:37,720 --> 01:54:38,720 we have to start undoing things. 2363 01:54:38,720 --> 01:54:40,720 I think we have the SUP. 2364 01:54:40,720 --> 01:54:42,720 I don't think it's a baseline minimum. 2365 01:54:42,720 --> 01:54:45,930 I think just like these gentlemen have come before us 2366 01:54:45,930 --> 01:54:49,720 tonight, they didn't come before us with a bare minimum. 2367 01:54:49,720 --> 01:54:52,949 And I'm not going to make their project the only determiner 2368 01:54:52,949 --> 01:54:55,720 , but I have great faith in our market system. 2369 01:54:55,720 --> 01:54:57,720 And people come out and invest this kind of money. 2370 01:54:57,720 --> 01:54:59,720 It's not to build the cheapest thing. 2371 01:54:59,720 --> 01:55:01,720 It's for it to be successful. 2372 01:55:01,720 --> 01:55:05,119 They are already talking about on their own an air-cond 2373 01:55:05,119 --> 01:55:07,720 itioned space and all of these things. 2374 01:55:07,720 --> 01:55:10,130 And I think we are short-sighted at this commission to 2375 01:55:10,130 --> 01:55:12,720 think that we know how to tell them how to do business. 2376 01:55:12,720 --> 01:55:16,449 And so I think we need to stick, and that's why I'm not 2377 01:55:16,449 --> 01:55:20,279 going to support it, to do the CMG with an SUP and give the 2378 01:55:20,279 --> 01:55:22,720 free market the opportunity to provide the services that 2379 01:55:22,720 --> 01:55:27,720 each community wants, willing to pay for in our great city. 2380 01:55:27,720 --> 01:55:32,409 And so with that, any other discussion or comment before I 2381 01:55:32,409 --> 01:55:36,720 call for a vote on the board on this amended motion? 2382 01:55:36,720 --> 01:55:40,720 So a vote will be for and a vote no will be against. 2383 01:55:40,720 --> 01:55:54,720 I will call for a vote on the board. 2384 01:55:54,720 --> 01:55:57,720 The motion fails 4-2. 2385 01:55:57,720 --> 01:56:01,869 We will now go back to the motion that we had before us by 2386 01:56:01,869 --> 01:56:03,720 Commissioner Rozelle. 2387 01:56:03,720 --> 01:56:07,720 And I forget who the seconder was, Commissioner Ellis. 2388 01:56:07,720 --> 01:56:13,720 And I would ask Commissioner Rozelle to restate his motion. 2389 01:56:13,720 --> 01:56:21,640 So my motion is to approve item Z17-001, including the 2390 01:56:21,640 --> 01:56:24,890 relocation of self-storage units from industrial land use 2391 01:56:24,890 --> 01:56:28,970 categories to the commercial land use, to permit self-st 2392 01:56:28,970 --> 01:56:33,720 orage units in CMG district with an SUP. 2393 01:56:33,720 --> 01:56:35,720 And that's it. 2394 01:56:35,720 --> 01:56:38,720 Okay. Commissioner Ellis, second on that still? 2395 01:56:38,720 --> 01:56:39,720 Yes. 2396 01:56:39,720 --> 01:56:40,720 Okay. 2397 01:56:40,720 --> 01:56:41,720 We have a first and a second. 2398 01:56:41,720 --> 01:56:47,720 Any discussion before I call for a vote on the board? 2399 01:56:47,720 --> 01:56:57,720 Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board. 2400 01:56:57,720 --> 01:57:07,720 Motion carries 5-1. 2401 01:57:07,720 --> 01:57:11,720 Okay. That will move us to our item C this evening. 2402 01:57:11,720 --> 01:57:15,720 Thank you for your presentation and your time. 2403 01:57:15,720 --> 01:57:18,720 And good luck on your project. 2404 01:57:18,720 --> 01:57:23,720 Look forward to seeing you again soon. 2405 01:57:23,720 --> 01:57:29,720 Item C, this item has been withdrawn by the applicant. 2406 01:57:29,720 --> 01:57:32,720 That will move us to item D. 2407 01:57:32,720 --> 01:57:38,720 And I'm going to open our public hearing on Z17-0002B. 2408 01:57:38,720 --> 01:57:45,720 And I will call on Julie Wyatt for presentation. 2409 01:57:45,720 --> 01:57:51,210 The applicant has requested to postpone this item until the 2410 01:57:51,210 --> 01:57:53,720 April 26 P&Z meeting. 2411 01:57:53,720 --> 01:57:54,720 Okay. 2412 01:57:54,720 --> 01:57:58,819 Since we have opened the public hearing, I'm going to ask, 2413 01:57:58,819 --> 01:58:01,590 since we've had some people come this evening, were either 2414 01:58:01,590 --> 01:58:04,720 of you all wanting to speak on this item tonight? 2415 01:58:04,720 --> 01:58:07,720 No? You here for something else? 2416 01:58:07,720 --> 01:58:11,720 Okay. 2417 01:58:11,720 --> 01:58:16,039 So we'll keep the public hearing open and then we'll do the 2418 01:58:16,039 --> 01:58:18,720 motion to postpone if you so desire. 2419 01:58:18,720 --> 01:58:21,720 I was just going to ask. 2420 01:58:21,720 --> 01:58:25,590 Okay. I was just going to leave the public hearing open and 2421 01:58:25,590 --> 01:58:30,720 make a motion to continue it to April 26. Is that legal? 2422 01:58:30,720 --> 01:58:34,909 Chair will motion that this item will be continued to date 2423 01:58:34,909 --> 01:58:39,720 certain of April 26 and the public hearing will remain open 2424 01:58:39,720 --> 01:58:39,720 . 2425 01:58:39,720 --> 01:58:42,720 So we don't have to re-notice this item. 2426 01:58:42,720 --> 01:58:43,720 Commissioner Taylor. 2427 01:58:43,720 --> 01:58:44,720 Second. 2428 01:58:44,720 --> 01:58:47,720 Okay. We have a first and a second. Any discussion? 2429 01:58:47,720 --> 01:58:56,720 Seeing none, I call for a vote on the board. 2430 01:58:56,720 --> 01:58:59,720 The motion carries 6-0. 2431 01:58:59,720 --> 01:59:02,720 I will move us to item E. 2432 01:59:02,720 --> 01:59:18,039 We'll open the public hearing for Z16-0030A and we'll call 2433 01:59:18,039 --> 01:59:25,720 on Julie White for presentation. 2434 01:59:25,720 --> 01:59:29,720 Good evening. I'm presenting 1630 to you tonight. 2435 01:59:29,720 --> 01:59:35,210 The request is to rezone approximately .4 acres from 2436 01:59:35,210 --> 01:59:39,720 downtown residential one to downtown residential two. 2437 01:59:39,720 --> 01:59:43,720 Would you like for me to go over the whole presentation? 2438 01:59:43,720 --> 01:59:46,850 I think the shortened version and we have people waiting 2439 01:59:46,850 --> 01:59:47,720 for a while. 2440 01:59:47,720 --> 01:59:51,890 Okay. So based upon the discussion items that we talked 2441 01:59:51,890 --> 01:59:55,649 about in the work session, the existing zoning pattern as 2442 01:59:55,649 --> 01:59:57,720 well as the existing land use pattern, 2443 01:59:57,720 --> 02:00:01,149 staff does recommend denial of this request as this change 2444 02:00:01,149 --> 02:00:04,979 in zoning could interrupt this existing zoning pattern at 2445 02:00:04,979 --> 02:00:07,850 the block level and potentially impede the development of 2446 02:00:07,850 --> 02:00:09,720 the area in a cohesive manner. 2447 02:00:09,720 --> 02:00:14,010 I'll stand for any questions and I believe the applicant is 2448 02:00:14,010 --> 02:00:14,720 here. 2449 02:00:14,720 --> 02:00:16,720 Yes, the applicant is here. 2450 02:00:16,720 --> 02:00:18,720 I have a question. 2451 02:00:18,720 --> 02:00:22,989 We talked about in work session that the property to the 2452 02:00:22,989 --> 02:00:27,229 southwest of this is DCG, which is even a higher, more 2453 02:00:27,229 --> 02:00:31,720 intensive zoning than what is being requested here. 2454 02:00:31,720 --> 02:00:38,960 With that said, why is staff not in support of this when we 2455 02:00:38,960 --> 02:00:46,439 have an even higher and greater zoning designation within a 2456 02:00:46,439 --> 02:00:48,720 half a lot away? 2457 02:00:48,720 --> 02:00:52,250 Sure. And we did look at that and we do see that 2458 02:00:52,250 --> 02:00:55,829 development pattern and that zoning pattern on the edges of 2459 02:00:55,829 --> 02:00:58,720 the neighborhood where those more intensive zoning 2460 02:00:58,720 --> 02:01:00,720 districts are there 2461 02:01:00,720 --> 02:01:03,020 and have developed in accordance with those zoning 2462 02:01:03,020 --> 02:01:03,720 districts. 2463 02:01:03,720 --> 02:01:08,220 However, because the zoning pattern on this particular 2464 02:01:08,220 --> 02:01:12,460 street and within that block is so cohesive and has 2465 02:01:12,460 --> 02:01:13,720 remained so, 2466 02:01:13,720 --> 02:01:18,739 then we felt like that this request, because it would 2467 02:01:18,739 --> 02:01:24,810 isolate the zoning district, wasn't appropriate for this 2468 02:01:24,810 --> 02:01:26,720 location. 2469 02:01:26,720 --> 02:01:31,550 So that was staff's analysis and that's how we arrived in 2470 02:01:31,550 --> 02:01:33,720 our recommendation. 2471 02:01:33,720 --> 02:01:38,840 I could see that if we were on the block to the east, but 2472 02:01:38,840 --> 02:01:41,699 the block that we're in, we have DCG in the bottom corner 2473 02:01:41,699 --> 02:01:46,720 and we have, I believe it is DR2 in the northwest corner. 2474 02:01:46,720 --> 02:01:51,909 So in that block already, there are higher uses and zoning 2475 02:01:51,909 --> 02:01:52,720 wise. 2476 02:01:52,720 --> 02:01:57,090 Yes, within the larger block and particularly that side 2477 02:01:57,090 --> 02:02:01,060 that faces the street behind it, that Avenue A, you're 2478 02:02:01,060 --> 02:02:03,720 right, there are those additional zoning districts. 2479 02:02:03,720 --> 02:02:07,449 But because Neff Street and that block on Neff Street has 2480 02:02:07,449 --> 02:02:12,060 that consistent zoning of DR1, that's why we feel like it's 2481 02:02:12,060 --> 02:02:13,720 important to maintain it. 2482 02:02:13,720 --> 02:02:15,720 Fair enough. Thank you for the explanation. 2483 02:02:15,720 --> 02:02:20,720 Any other questions for staff? 2484 02:02:20,720 --> 02:02:23,720 Anybody else? Thank you, Julie. Thank you. 2485 02:02:23,720 --> 02:02:27,090 This is a public hearing. Anyone wishing to speak on this 2486 02:02:27,090 --> 02:02:28,720 item? Please come forward. 2487 02:02:28,720 --> 02:02:34,720 You have a card, great. Are you the applicant? Yes, sir. 2488 02:02:34,720 --> 02:02:38,090 Okay. If you'll give us your name and address and you'll 2489 02:02:38,090 --> 02:02:40,720 have 10 minutes to tell us about your project. 2490 02:02:40,720 --> 02:02:42,720 Name is Mickey Patterson. 2491 02:02:42,720 --> 02:02:46,300 The address for the property is that what you're referring 2492 02:02:46,300 --> 02:02:46,720 to? 2493 02:02:46,720 --> 02:02:48,720 Your current address where you live. 2494 02:02:48,720 --> 02:02:52,720 8805 Random Road in Fort Worth, Texas. 2495 02:02:52,720 --> 02:02:55,720 Okay. 2496 02:02:55,720 --> 02:02:56,720 Who needs a card? 2497 02:02:56,720 --> 02:02:59,720 I'm Sherry Patterson and I live with him. 2498 02:02:59,720 --> 02:03:01,720 Okay. 2499 02:03:01,720 --> 02:03:04,270 Well, are you all going together here and sharing the 10 2500 02:03:04,270 --> 02:03:06,720 minutes or are each of you going to take 10 minutes? 2501 02:03:06,720 --> 02:03:08,720 No, we'll be done hopefully. 2502 02:03:08,720 --> 02:03:11,239 Okay. Can we do two people speaking at the same time back 2503 02:03:11,239 --> 02:03:11,720 and forth? 2504 02:03:11,720 --> 02:03:13,720 No, you need to go one at a time. 2505 02:03:13,720 --> 02:03:14,720 Okay. So I was just clarifying. 2506 02:03:14,720 --> 02:03:18,720 I can dive into everything and then -- 2507 02:03:18,720 --> 02:03:19,720 Okay. 2508 02:03:19,720 --> 02:03:20,720 Do you want me to look this? 2509 02:03:20,720 --> 02:03:23,720 Yes, ma'am. I didn't know where it was at. 2510 02:03:23,720 --> 02:03:27,840 And while she's getting that started, just a handful of 2511 02:03:27,840 --> 02:03:29,720 slides to go through. 2512 02:03:29,720 --> 02:03:33,229 I know a few of the slides will talk a little more in depth 2513 02:03:33,229 --> 02:03:35,720 about what we envision on the project, 2514 02:03:35,720 --> 02:03:38,840 just more to give a context of what we're looking at and 2515 02:03:38,840 --> 02:03:39,720 then it will go more to the -- 2516 02:03:39,720 --> 02:03:43,449 I think more of a succinct approach is just what it is we 2517 02:03:43,449 --> 02:03:45,720 're trying to do, which is fairly well summed up, 2518 02:03:45,720 --> 02:03:48,720 is to go from a DR1 to a DR2. 2519 02:03:48,720 --> 02:03:49,720 Great. 2520 02:03:49,720 --> 02:03:53,720 And we do try to get the neighbors around us, you know, 2521 02:03:53,720 --> 02:03:54,720 because we do feel like -- 2522 02:03:54,720 --> 02:03:57,060 I went to school here and I'm not going to say how many 2523 02:03:57,060 --> 02:04:00,720 years ago, but even parking then was an issue. 2524 02:04:00,720 --> 02:04:03,760 So I know how important it is to live close to the school 2525 02:04:03,760 --> 02:04:05,720 and now parking is just crazy. 2526 02:04:05,720 --> 02:04:08,359 You can't get a mile from the school and I know my niece 2527 02:04:08,359 --> 02:04:09,720 goes here and she's like -- 2528 02:04:09,720 --> 02:04:11,720 I can see legal starting to squirm. 2529 02:04:11,720 --> 02:04:13,720 So we typically one at a time. 2530 02:04:13,720 --> 02:04:16,050 So if you'd like to go first, we'd be happy to hear from 2531 02:04:16,050 --> 02:04:16,720 you next. 2532 02:04:16,720 --> 02:04:18,720 Sure. 2533 02:04:18,720 --> 02:04:21,989 So just to kind of give you an idea of the project, just to 2534 02:04:21,989 --> 02:04:23,720 kind of put it in context of what our vision is, 2535 02:04:23,720 --> 02:04:25,720 I've got a couple slides. 2536 02:04:25,720 --> 02:04:28,869 This is what I think we've talked to you correct about a 2537 02:04:28,869 --> 02:04:29,720 little bit. 2538 02:04:29,720 --> 02:04:32,420 Kind of the scope of what we're looking at is a shipping 2539 02:04:32,420 --> 02:04:33,720 container apartment. 2540 02:04:33,720 --> 02:04:36,720 It's kind of an artsy, trendy design. 2541 02:04:36,720 --> 02:04:39,210 You see it pop up in a lot of cities, Austin, some of these 2542 02:04:39,210 --> 02:04:41,720 outskirts, a handful of places in Europe. 2543 02:04:41,720 --> 02:04:46,069 So this is our project and what we're looking at, obviously 2544 02:04:46,069 --> 02:04:47,720 because it appeals to young professionals, 2545 02:04:47,720 --> 02:04:50,720 college students and things of that nature. 2546 02:04:50,720 --> 02:04:52,770 This is really more for something to share with and you can 2547 02:04:52,770 --> 02:04:53,720 read through it later. 2548 02:04:53,720 --> 02:04:56,550 We don't need to dive into all of it, but it just talks 2549 02:04:56,550 --> 02:04:58,720 about more of what we envisioned on the project. 2550 02:04:58,720 --> 02:05:01,859 We've just got some supportive material about kind of, 2551 02:05:01,859 --> 02:05:04,720 again, what we plan to put there and that this is not just, 2552 02:05:04,720 --> 02:05:06,720 hey, we want to throw together something that's super cheap 2553 02:05:06,720 --> 02:05:09,720 and just a bunch of units to cram college kids into 2554 02:05:09,720 --> 02:05:12,720 because you can get more out of them that way. 2555 02:05:12,720 --> 02:05:15,340 So this, again, just gives a little bit of background on 2556 02:05:15,340 --> 02:05:19,720 this, but then I want to hop into particularly what the 2557 02:05:19,720 --> 02:05:20,720 location is. 2558 02:05:20,720 --> 02:05:24,720 And as she outlined this here, this is a high-level view. 2559 02:05:24,720 --> 02:05:28,869 Take maybe a little easier view, easier for me anyways to 2560 02:05:28,869 --> 02:05:29,720 look at. 2561 02:05:29,720 --> 02:05:35,229 And as you mentioned, the edges here, I don't know if I can 2562 02:05:35,229 --> 02:05:35,720 get a... 2563 02:05:35,720 --> 02:05:38,859 Like you mentioned with the DCG here and as well as the 2564 02:05:38,859 --> 02:05:42,720 additional DR2 that's encroaching already in the areas. 2565 02:05:42,720 --> 02:05:46,500 What we were hoping, given that there's this push with the 2566 02:05:46,500 --> 02:05:49,720 higher occupancy or higher density living, 2567 02:05:49,720 --> 02:05:53,600 that this would really go with the goal of what the area is 2568 02:05:53,600 --> 02:05:54,720 trying to do, 2569 02:05:54,720 --> 02:05:58,180 which is getting higher density living, more options 2570 02:05:58,180 --> 02:06:00,720 availability for the college students, 2571 02:06:00,720 --> 02:06:04,159 as well as the other young professionals moving into the 2572 02:06:04,159 --> 02:06:04,720 area. 2573 02:06:04,720 --> 02:06:07,680 One of the things that we did notice here is that these 2574 02:06:07,680 --> 02:06:11,340 upper parts and as well in the end, you do see a handful on 2575 02:06:11,340 --> 02:06:12,720 each side, 2576 02:06:12,720 --> 02:06:16,449 just more duplexes going up on the newer, on the ones that 2577 02:06:16,449 --> 02:06:20,579 have been, I guess, older homes that were bought, torn down 2578 02:06:20,579 --> 02:06:22,720 and duplexes put up. 2579 02:06:22,720 --> 02:06:26,020 As Sherry was saying earlier, the homes here, and we were 2580 02:06:26,020 --> 02:06:28,720 advised, and I think it was you or one of your counterparts 2581 02:06:28,720 --> 02:06:29,720 had mentioned that 2582 02:06:29,720 --> 02:06:33,510 one of the things that would make this easier is reaching 2583 02:06:33,510 --> 02:06:36,520 out to the people along this street or even on the edges 2584 02:06:36,520 --> 02:06:36,720 here 2585 02:06:36,720 --> 02:06:40,229 to see if there was a consensus of migrating to a DR2 or 2586 02:06:40,229 --> 02:06:41,720 alternate zoning. 2587 02:06:41,720 --> 02:06:45,220 The challenge we had is the people, especially there to the 2588 02:06:45,220 --> 02:06:47,720 south, everyone that was reached out to, 2589 02:06:47,720 --> 02:06:49,710 these are people that have either been in the property a 2590 02:06:49,710 --> 02:06:53,210 long time, elderly, 80, 90 years old, we just got very 2591 02:06:53,210 --> 02:06:54,720 limited response. 2592 02:06:54,720 --> 02:06:57,760 I think that, as you can tell by the properties, these are 2593 02:06:57,760 --> 02:07:01,000 older properties that are, yeah, they don't either not live 2594 02:07:01,000 --> 02:07:03,720 there, someone out of state that has the property. 2595 02:07:03,720 --> 02:07:05,720 So, you know, this was just a challenge. 2596 02:07:05,720 --> 02:07:08,170 I know that was the goal and we were hoping that we could 2597 02:07:08,170 --> 02:07:10,770 come here and say, hey, this is great, we've got all the 2598 02:07:10,770 --> 02:07:12,720 people around us that want to do this. 2599 02:07:12,720 --> 02:07:13,720 Unfortunately, we just don't. 2600 02:07:13,720 --> 02:07:16,369 And that's just not because the people don't think want to, 2601 02:07:16,369 --> 02:07:18,720 it's just because they can't get a hold of them. 2602 02:07:18,720 --> 02:07:23,880 So, again, that's our view of the area and the way we see 2603 02:07:23,880 --> 02:07:26,720 the properties migrating. 2604 02:07:26,720 --> 02:07:29,720 I think this fits in with the plan very well. 2605 02:07:29,720 --> 02:07:34,130 The build site, this just gives you a little view, I think 2606 02:07:34,130 --> 02:07:38,060 from a standpoint, the lot, you can see, is plenty large, 2607 02:07:38,060 --> 02:07:41,210 especially when you consider this spot that was just to the 2608 02:07:41,210 --> 02:07:43,720 southwest is a commercial apartment complex. 2609 02:07:43,720 --> 02:07:46,720 So, this is, I think it's an 18 unit complex. 2610 02:07:46,720 --> 02:07:49,109 So, this has got quite a few units crammed in this space 2611 02:07:49,109 --> 02:07:49,720 already. 2612 02:07:49,720 --> 02:07:53,449 And we would do everything here to maintain the 2613 02:07:53,449 --> 02:07:57,329 neighborhood, the trees, the greenery, having the green 2614 02:07:57,329 --> 02:07:58,720 spaces on the edge of the property. 2615 02:07:58,720 --> 02:08:01,949 This isn't a goal of coming in, rip everything out, cram as 2616 02:08:01,949 --> 02:08:03,720 many spaces as you can there. 2617 02:08:03,720 --> 02:08:07,789 So, the whole idea of what we're trying to do is to keep 2618 02:08:07,789 --> 02:08:12,300 this artsy urban design and we want to bring that home feel 2619 02:08:12,300 --> 02:08:16,560 here and something that can build out into the rest of the 2620 02:08:16,560 --> 02:08:17,720 neighborhood. 2621 02:08:17,720 --> 02:08:20,649 Just the main benefits we see in being able to do this, it 2622 02:08:20,649 --> 02:08:23,510 does add a lot of the much needed housing in the area for 2623 02:08:23,510 --> 02:08:24,720 your university. 2624 02:08:24,720 --> 02:08:26,720 I had a couple supporting pieces here. 2625 02:08:26,720 --> 02:08:30,449 This is stuff that you guys know as far as the universities 2626 02:08:30,449 --> 02:08:33,970 and the demand that you have both here and even on the TWU 2627 02:08:33,970 --> 02:08:34,720 side. 2628 02:08:34,720 --> 02:08:38,489 And then to the project we're proposing, I think really 2629 02:08:38,489 --> 02:08:41,720 fits into the cultural theme within Denton. 2630 02:08:41,720 --> 02:08:46,489 It's bold, unique, artistic design and this fits what 2631 02:08:46,489 --> 02:08:49,720 people are trying to move here for. 2632 02:08:49,720 --> 02:08:53,100 And then lastly, I think with the encroachment around the 2633 02:08:53,100 --> 02:08:56,720 surrounding areas with small kind of boutique apartments, 2634 02:08:56,720 --> 02:08:58,720 this fits that mold really well. 2635 02:08:58,720 --> 02:09:02,720 So, from our view, the area can support it. 2636 02:09:02,720 --> 02:09:06,720 It still fits in even though it's a variance in that area. 2637 02:09:06,720 --> 02:09:09,720 It still fits in with the general area and the theme. 2638 02:09:09,720 --> 02:09:12,579 As you go from street to street, you can't obviously tell, 2639 02:09:12,579 --> 02:09:16,010 hey, this is obviously residential and this is obviously 2640 02:09:16,010 --> 02:09:17,720 commercial because you make a right. 2641 02:09:17,720 --> 02:09:19,720 It's all apartments. You make a left. It's all apartments. 2642 02:09:19,720 --> 02:09:21,720 You go down here, it's a bunch of duplexes. 2643 02:09:21,720 --> 02:09:26,720 So, the field still looks the same from our perspective. 2644 02:09:26,720 --> 02:09:28,720 So, really, that's all I have. 2645 02:09:28,720 --> 02:09:35,020 I don't know if you have anything else. Questions? Is that 2646 02:09:35,020 --> 02:09:36,720 the process? 2647 02:09:36,720 --> 02:09:39,020 Yes, there is a process and I've got a full board of 2648 02:09:39,020 --> 02:09:39,720 questions. 2649 02:09:39,720 --> 02:09:40,720 So, beg your patience. 2650 02:09:40,720 --> 02:09:41,720 No worries. 2651 02:09:41,720 --> 02:09:43,720 Commissioner Rossell. Thank you, Sheriff. 2652 02:09:43,720 --> 02:09:45,319 Thank you for your presentation and some context to what's 2653 02:09:45,319 --> 02:09:45,720 going on. 2654 02:09:45,720 --> 02:09:48,800 I have a couple of questions about the two properties 2655 02:09:48,800 --> 02:09:49,720 themselves. 2656 02:09:49,720 --> 02:09:51,720 They're separate platted right now. 2657 02:09:51,720 --> 02:09:53,720 Are you looking to replat after rezoning? 2658 02:09:53,720 --> 02:09:55,720 That would be the goal. 2659 02:09:55,720 --> 02:09:59,960 Ultimately, whatever's amiable to the committee and what 2660 02:09:59,960 --> 02:10:01,720 makes the most sense. 2661 02:10:01,720 --> 02:10:05,720 Sure. What is the total acreage of those two lots? 2662 02:10:05,720 --> 02:10:08,720 I think it's roughly just under half acre-ish. 2663 02:10:08,720 --> 02:10:10,720 Okay. And then you might have pictures of this. 2664 02:10:10,720 --> 02:10:14,229 I'd be interested to see if you do, but what do you think 2665 02:10:14,229 --> 02:10:17,720 would likely be built on .4 acres? 2666 02:10:17,720 --> 02:10:18,720 Do you have like, are we talking about? 2667 02:10:18,720 --> 02:10:21,170 I didn't put, I can give you a perspective of just kind of 2668 02:10:21,170 --> 02:10:23,720 what the, it's not our design, 2669 02:10:23,720 --> 02:10:28,260 but I can give you a couple, like this is probably not the 2670 02:10:28,260 --> 02:10:29,720 best example. 2671 02:10:29,720 --> 02:10:33,449 So, when you look at something like this, you're looking at 2672 02:10:33,449 --> 02:10:36,720 something like this, maybe twice this size right here, 2673 02:10:36,720 --> 02:10:40,720 that's supporting that area. I think the guidelines that we 2674 02:10:40,720 --> 02:10:40,720 have in the city, 2675 02:10:40,720 --> 02:10:44,720 I think it was a one and a quarter parking spots per room. 2676 02:10:44,720 --> 02:10:49,600 So, from our view, you're looking at anywhere from 12 to 2677 02:10:49,600 --> 02:10:53,720 maybe 14 to 20 units out there, 2678 02:10:53,720 --> 02:10:56,090 and they can still support parking while maintaining the 2679 02:10:56,090 --> 02:10:56,720 green area. 2680 02:10:56,720 --> 02:10:57,720 That's the other part too. 2681 02:10:57,720 --> 02:11:01,489 We do have, as I showed there, a lot of green area that we 2682 02:11:01,489 --> 02:11:02,720 want to maintain. 2683 02:11:02,720 --> 02:11:05,859 So, we don't want to just clear cut this just for the sake 2684 02:11:05,859 --> 02:11:08,210 of being able to support the parking structures and 2685 02:11:08,210 --> 02:11:09,720 everything else as well. 2686 02:11:09,720 --> 02:11:12,380 So, I guess my answer would be kind of, well, it depends on 2687 02:11:12,380 --> 02:11:13,720 what makes sense with the committee. 2688 02:11:13,720 --> 02:11:15,720 Thank you. 2689 02:11:15,720 --> 02:11:17,720 I've got a question that I'll recognize. 2690 02:11:17,720 --> 02:11:19,720 Can you tell us why you want to rezone it? 2691 02:11:19,720 --> 02:11:24,720 Because in DR1 and DR2, both have got multifamily allowed. 2692 02:11:24,720 --> 02:11:30,720 The height is 45 feet in DR2 and 40 feet in DR1. 2693 02:11:30,720 --> 02:11:34,449 And the only other difference that I see is a slight 2694 02:11:34,449 --> 02:11:36,720 difference in lot coverage. 2695 02:11:36,720 --> 02:11:40,859 So, can you give us the rationale of why we need to do the 2696 02:11:40,859 --> 02:11:41,720 rezone? 2697 02:11:41,720 --> 02:11:44,720 And I could be wrong in my understanding here. 2698 02:11:44,720 --> 02:11:50,680 My understanding was that DR1, you could only do duplexes, 2699 02:11:50,680 --> 02:11:52,720 not multifamily. 2700 02:11:52,720 --> 02:11:58,720 I'll call on staff to address that question. 2701 02:11:58,720 --> 02:11:59,720 You're correct. 2702 02:11:59,720 --> 02:12:00,720 Yes. 2703 02:12:00,720 --> 02:12:03,720 I was looking at L5, and you're correct. 2704 02:12:03,720 --> 02:12:04,720 My apologies. 2705 02:12:04,720 --> 02:12:05,720 I missed that detail. 2706 02:12:05,720 --> 02:12:06,720 I'm looking at the chart. 2707 02:12:06,720 --> 02:12:09,720 I was looking at the box. 2708 02:12:09,720 --> 02:12:10,720 Glad you're prepared. 2709 02:12:10,720 --> 02:12:11,720 Well done. 2710 02:12:11,720 --> 02:12:15,720 Commissioner Hussbuth. 2711 02:12:15,720 --> 02:12:18,680 I'll tell you, I think you're a little ahead of the power 2712 02:12:18,680 --> 02:12:19,720 curve, right? 2713 02:12:19,720 --> 02:12:23,720 So, I want you to help me understand where I'm off. 2714 02:12:23,720 --> 02:12:28,520 Because if I look at that, if you go back to your map, here 2715 02:12:28,520 --> 02:12:30,720 's what we can agree on. 2716 02:12:30,720 --> 02:12:32,720 We can agree it's coming. 2717 02:12:32,720 --> 02:12:33,720 Yes, sir. 2718 02:12:33,720 --> 02:12:35,720 We can agree all that's going to transition. 2719 02:12:35,720 --> 02:12:37,720 I just think you're early. 2720 02:12:37,720 --> 02:12:45,869 And so, my palette right now is phase one duplex, phase two 2721 02:12:45,869 --> 02:12:50,720 , once everything else transitions to multifamily, 2722 02:12:50,720 --> 02:12:54,720 then I'm more at peace with it. 2723 02:12:54,720 --> 02:12:57,720 But I do want to give you an opportunity. 2724 02:12:57,720 --> 02:13:00,270 I mean, I want to hear from you and get kind of your feel 2725 02:13:00,270 --> 02:13:02,720 from that understanding that's my concern. 2726 02:13:02,720 --> 02:13:05,720 And then I'll tell you, this is just me. 2727 02:13:05,720 --> 02:13:09,699 I'm burnt out on everyone telling me about UNT, how close 2728 02:13:09,699 --> 02:13:11,720 it is to UNT, how walkable it is UNT. 2729 02:13:11,720 --> 02:13:13,720 Understand all that matters. 2730 02:13:13,720 --> 02:13:17,130 But it's just everyone to me, buzzwords, right, to make it 2731 02:13:17,130 --> 02:13:17,720 okay. 2732 02:13:17,720 --> 02:13:22,109 I want to know from Mickey, just hey, this makes sense 2733 02:13:22,109 --> 02:13:25,720 because, right, I mean, just from the heart. 2734 02:13:25,720 --> 02:13:27,720 Just let me have it. 2735 02:13:27,720 --> 02:13:30,920 I'm going to have a couple things and one that is first 2736 02:13:30,920 --> 02:13:33,720 going to address the kind of phasing it in. 2737 02:13:33,720 --> 02:13:37,670 The way I see it and with projects of this nature is you go 2738 02:13:37,670 --> 02:13:40,720 the route of doing a DR1, you build the duplex here, 2739 02:13:40,720 --> 02:13:43,079 and you look at some of the ones on the edges who have done 2740 02:13:43,079 --> 02:13:43,720 duplexes. 2741 02:13:43,720 --> 02:13:46,720 The reality is those are there for the next 30 years. 2742 02:13:46,720 --> 02:13:48,720 These aren't changing, maybe 40 years. 2743 02:13:48,720 --> 02:13:51,770 So this isn't really a hey, we're going to phase it in now 2744 02:13:51,770 --> 02:13:55,279 and then later when we really like to get some of the 2745 02:13:55,279 --> 02:13:55,720 multifamily, 2746 02:13:55,720 --> 02:13:56,720 it will come later. 2747 02:13:56,720 --> 02:13:57,720 It will. 2748 02:13:57,720 --> 02:14:01,850 I think if you do something, you stage it different and go 2749 02:14:01,850 --> 02:14:05,800 to this approach first, well, then later is 25, 30 years 2750 02:14:05,800 --> 02:14:06,720 from now. 2751 02:14:06,720 --> 02:14:09,420 And then you kind of end up in a situation where, man, 2752 02:14:09,420 --> 02:14:11,720 these are all single-family or duplexes. 2753 02:14:11,720 --> 02:14:13,720 We could have done an apartment here. 2754 02:14:13,720 --> 02:14:16,020 And I'll give you a good example, and it is another 2755 02:14:16,020 --> 02:14:16,720 university. 2756 02:14:16,720 --> 02:14:19,869 As you look over in areas closer to TWU and the surrounding 2757 02:14:19,869 --> 02:14:23,720 areas there, what was done there is everything was done DR2 2758 02:14:23,720 --> 02:14:24,720 around all the areas. 2759 02:14:24,720 --> 02:14:28,449 You still see kind of a mix and this homogenous mix of 2760 02:14:28,449 --> 02:14:30,720 homes and some apartments. 2761 02:14:30,720 --> 02:14:36,079 But the consistency there is all DR2, whereas this is DR1 2762 02:14:36,079 --> 02:14:38,720 and it's kind of segmented. 2763 02:14:38,720 --> 02:14:41,939 And in those cases, what you saw with the new builds, they 2764 02:14:41,939 --> 02:14:43,720 were typically apartments. 2765 02:14:43,720 --> 02:14:45,720 You don't have a lot of the duplexes. 2766 02:14:45,720 --> 02:14:48,550 And I know one of you had a concern earlier on home values 2767 02:14:48,550 --> 02:14:49,720 and values in areas. 2768 02:14:49,720 --> 02:14:52,800 Duplexes generally bring down values from a real estate 2769 02:14:52,800 --> 02:14:53,720 standpoint. 2770 02:14:53,720 --> 02:14:57,590 Apartments, single-family homes have a stronger value than 2771 02:14:57,590 --> 02:15:00,720 do typically duplexes or quadplexes in an area. 2772 02:15:00,720 --> 02:15:03,859 So that's kind of thinking of the forward-looking where I 2773 02:15:03,859 --> 02:15:06,430 would say is, you know, honestly, the commercial route 2774 02:15:06,430 --> 02:15:07,720 might be a better route, 2775 02:15:07,720 --> 02:15:11,680 but I think it would be a harder stretch to put that there 2776 02:15:11,680 --> 02:15:14,720 unless I was on that southwest corner. 2777 02:15:14,720 --> 02:15:17,250 But, you know, to your area, as far as why, I think that 2778 02:15:17,250 --> 02:15:20,229 what drove us on this project was we were looking at things 2779 02:15:20,229 --> 02:15:21,720 that were different. 2780 02:15:21,720 --> 02:15:24,720 We first started looking at some of the college areas. 2781 02:15:24,720 --> 02:15:26,720 That's just the way it is up here. 2782 02:15:26,720 --> 02:15:28,590 But we looked at some of the things that you could do that 2783 02:15:28,590 --> 02:15:29,720 were more modular concept. 2784 02:15:29,720 --> 02:15:32,229 And at Texas A&M, they had some of these neat modular 2785 02:15:32,229 --> 02:15:33,720 concepts where you do stuff. 2786 02:15:33,720 --> 02:15:35,909 And then we looked at some of the trends and designs, the 2787 02:15:35,909 --> 02:15:38,810 nice thing about this particular design, it is a green 2788 02:15:38,810 --> 02:15:39,720 build. 2789 02:15:39,720 --> 02:15:40,720 You use a lot of recycled products. 2790 02:15:40,720 --> 02:15:41,720 It is trendy. 2791 02:15:41,720 --> 02:15:42,720 It's efficient. 2792 02:15:42,720 --> 02:15:43,720 They're sturdy. 2793 02:15:43,720 --> 02:15:44,720 They last a long time. 2794 02:15:44,720 --> 02:15:46,720 So there's a lot of good qualities with what we're doing. 2795 02:15:46,720 --> 02:15:49,310 Having said that, we're not dead set that, yes, we have to 2796 02:15:49,310 --> 02:15:51,979 do this if there's pushback, I guess, on the next phase of 2797 02:15:51,979 --> 02:15:52,720 the project. 2798 02:15:52,720 --> 02:15:55,720 So we're open to those discussions. 2799 02:15:55,720 --> 02:15:57,720 I think it's just first steps first. 2800 02:15:57,720 --> 02:15:59,720 But that was kind of our thought here. 2801 02:15:59,720 --> 02:16:02,949 We actually have another property that probably had this 2802 02:16:02,949 --> 02:16:04,720 similar discussion later. 2803 02:16:04,720 --> 02:16:07,720 It's on a DR2 lot already. 2804 02:16:07,720 --> 02:16:09,720 But it's closer to the downtown. 2805 02:16:09,720 --> 02:16:12,779 And so for that, it's less about the college, but it really 2806 02:16:12,779 --> 02:16:15,720 is about that downtown, young professional life. 2807 02:16:15,720 --> 02:16:16,720 If I may. 2808 02:16:16,720 --> 02:16:17,720 Continue. 2809 02:16:17,720 --> 02:16:18,720 One follow-up. 2810 02:16:18,720 --> 02:16:24,359 But regardless, whatever parking requirements, you don't 2811 02:16:24,359 --> 02:16:28,720 anticipate any need for variances with respect to parking. 2812 02:16:28,720 --> 02:16:32,809 The number of slots, the material needed, you don't 2813 02:16:32,809 --> 02:16:34,719 envision any issues? 2814 02:16:34,719 --> 02:16:35,719 No. 2815 02:16:35,719 --> 02:16:37,729 I think the only variances are discussions that are 2816 02:16:37,729 --> 02:16:38,719 realistic to come up. 2817 02:16:38,719 --> 02:16:41,600 And I know we've talked about this a little bit, is the 2818 02:16:41,600 --> 02:16:44,819 shipping container design that we'd like to go forward with 2819 02:16:44,819 --> 02:16:46,719 is something that's atypical. 2820 02:16:46,719 --> 02:16:49,340 And so what we'd have to do is probably make sure that the 2821 02:16:49,340 --> 02:16:52,239 engineers and the people are comfortable with what's being 2822 02:16:52,239 --> 02:16:55,719 done for installation, whether it be panels here, 2823 02:16:55,719 --> 02:16:58,770 conforming to the build guidelines or having appropriate 2824 02:16:58,770 --> 02:16:59,719 alternatives. 2825 02:16:59,719 --> 02:17:03,110 So no, I mean, not to that phase yet, just on the zoning 2826 02:17:03,110 --> 02:17:03,719 side. 2827 02:17:03,719 --> 02:17:07,260 I just wanted to make sure kind of in advance that I don't 2828 02:17:07,260 --> 02:17:11,079 see anything inside that whatever we decide or whatever is 2829 02:17:11,079 --> 02:17:13,719 decided that I kind of get that out. 2830 02:17:13,719 --> 02:17:14,719 I was just curious about that. 2831 02:17:14,719 --> 02:17:16,719 Yeah, I think we're we're tracking on that. 2832 02:17:16,719 --> 02:17:17,719 Thank you. 2833 02:17:17,719 --> 02:17:19,719 We have an architect draw up the plans. 2834 02:17:19,719 --> 02:17:20,719 The site. 2835 02:17:20,719 --> 02:17:22,719 So that was just a minute. 2836 02:17:22,719 --> 02:17:23,719 Sorry. 2837 02:17:23,719 --> 02:17:24,719 We do one at a time. 2838 02:17:24,719 --> 02:17:29,719 Sorry. I don't have anything to say. 2839 02:17:29,719 --> 02:17:30,719 Okay. 2840 02:17:30,719 --> 02:17:32,719 Okay. 2841 02:17:32,719 --> 02:17:36,129 If you could just take a seat back there, then we can just 2842 02:17:36,129 --> 02:17:36,719 have one. 2843 02:17:36,719 --> 02:17:37,719 Okay. 2844 02:17:37,719 --> 02:17:40,719 Sorry. 2845 02:17:40,719 --> 02:17:42,719 Commissioner Beck. 2846 02:17:42,719 --> 02:17:43,719 Thank you, Chair. 2847 02:17:43,719 --> 02:17:44,719 Mr. Kravis, right? 2848 02:17:44,719 --> 02:17:45,719 No, Mickey Patterson. 2849 02:17:45,719 --> 02:17:46,719 Patterson. 2850 02:17:46,719 --> 02:17:47,719 Sorry. 2851 02:17:47,719 --> 02:17:48,719 Excuse me. 2852 02:17:48,719 --> 02:17:50,719 Appreciate your presentation. 2853 02:17:50,719 --> 02:17:53,850 Appreciate the fact that you've got some avant-garde views 2854 02:17:53,850 --> 02:17:54,719 here on this. 2855 02:17:54,719 --> 02:17:58,450 Could I get you to put your picture back up where it said 2856 02:17:58,450 --> 02:17:59,719 the cube showing us? 2857 02:17:59,719 --> 02:18:00,719 The very beginning? 2858 02:18:00,719 --> 02:18:02,719 Yeah. 2859 02:18:02,719 --> 02:18:05,719 Yeah, right there. 2860 02:18:05,719 --> 02:18:09,719 That is unique. 2861 02:18:09,719 --> 02:18:14,729 And I was kind of wavering, to be honest with you, between 2862 02:18:14,729 --> 02:18:19,799 going along with denial with staff on this and considering 2863 02:18:19,799 --> 02:18:23,719 a move, a slight bump might not be so bad. 2864 02:18:23,719 --> 02:18:25,319 I'm pretty sure I'm going to have a hard time with this 2865 02:18:25,319 --> 02:18:25,719 design. 2866 02:18:25,719 --> 02:18:28,870 I think the people who live in that area, those older folks 2867 02:18:28,870 --> 02:18:31,719 , too, you know, are going to have a hard time. 2868 02:18:31,719 --> 02:18:35,719 This is going to stick out like a like a sore thumb. 2869 02:18:35,719 --> 02:18:37,719 This isn't going to fit in that area at all. 2870 02:18:37,719 --> 02:18:41,239 Usually we want to bring something into an area, something 2871 02:18:41,239 --> 02:18:41,719 new. 2872 02:18:41,719 --> 02:18:45,719 It needs to fit in better than I think this is going to. 2873 02:18:45,719 --> 02:18:47,719 And I don't mean to be over critical. 2874 02:18:47,719 --> 02:18:49,719 I think this would be great in other places. 2875 02:18:49,719 --> 02:18:50,719 And I think you're right. 2876 02:18:50,719 --> 02:18:52,719 This would appeal to the college student. 2877 02:18:52,719 --> 02:18:55,829 But you're going to put this in an area where you've got 70 2878 02:18:55,829 --> 02:18:58,840 and 80 year old homes and some of the residents are that 2879 02:18:58,840 --> 02:18:59,719 old, too. 2880 02:18:59,719 --> 02:19:03,719 And this is not going to transition well. 2881 02:19:03,719 --> 02:19:08,219 So if you have an alternate plan outside of storage 2882 02:19:08,219 --> 02:19:11,719 containers, I'd be glad to hear it. 2883 02:19:11,719 --> 02:19:14,909 Okay. And that's why I guess my question would be so from 2884 02:19:14,909 --> 02:19:17,889 your perspective, you would be on your your view would be 2885 02:19:17,889 --> 02:19:21,719 more on board if it was a traditional stick masonry build. 2886 02:19:21,719 --> 02:19:23,719 I would be more have to be on board. Yes. 2887 02:19:23,719 --> 02:19:27,219 At this point, looking at that, I'm probably going to deny 2888 02:19:27,219 --> 02:19:27,719 this. 2889 02:19:27,719 --> 02:19:31,719 I mean, so the reality is this is this is our preference. 2890 02:19:31,719 --> 02:19:34,719 It's not our dead set. 2891 02:19:34,719 --> 02:19:38,590 We own the property and we're in this to have an investment 2892 02:19:38,590 --> 02:19:42,370 that can make make some money, have an offering and it fits 2893 02:19:42,370 --> 02:19:43,719 in my perspective. 2894 02:19:43,719 --> 02:19:45,719 I would disagree with you on how this fits in. 2895 02:19:45,719 --> 02:19:50,719 That's that's just the way to disagree. 2896 02:19:50,719 --> 02:19:54,090 But having said that, if that was the general view for pass 2897 02:19:54,090 --> 02:19:57,329 or or not, ultimately, I still think it's better moving to 2898 02:19:57,329 --> 02:19:58,719 a D.R. 2899 02:19:58,719 --> 02:20:02,450 two with being a frame masonry traditional build than 2900 02:20:02,450 --> 02:20:03,719 staying D.R. 2901 02:20:03,719 --> 02:20:05,719 one and going with the duplex. 2902 02:20:05,719 --> 02:20:08,340 So it's regardless of whether it's this or another one, I 2903 02:20:08,340 --> 02:20:11,719 think the view is it's still better to go to the D.R. 2904 02:20:11,719 --> 02:20:12,719 two. Okay. 2905 02:20:12,719 --> 02:20:15,719 Commissioner O'Zell. Thank you, Chair. 2906 02:20:15,719 --> 02:20:16,719 Commissioner Beck, I disagree with you. 2907 02:20:16,719 --> 02:20:18,719 I think that would be pretty cool. 2908 02:20:18,719 --> 02:20:21,930 And it's kind of unfortunate that sometimes our 2909 02:20:21,930 --> 02:20:24,719 requirements make it a cookie cutter. 2910 02:20:24,719 --> 02:20:27,459 We have to have so much masonry and so much brick and 2911 02:20:27,459 --> 02:20:29,719 everything is kind of looks the same. 2912 02:20:29,719 --> 02:20:33,719 So, I mean, I think I think that could work. 2913 02:20:33,719 --> 02:20:35,719 But more importantly, that's not for discussion tonight. 2914 02:20:35,719 --> 02:20:37,719 He can build whatever he wants there. 2915 02:20:37,719 --> 02:20:38,719 Once the D.R. two is made. 2916 02:20:38,719 --> 02:20:41,719 So the however those get a little crazy. 2917 02:20:41,719 --> 02:20:46,719 But how thank you. 2918 02:20:46,719 --> 02:20:48,719 This will help better. 2919 02:20:48,719 --> 02:20:50,719 Help me prove your point. 2920 02:20:50,719 --> 02:20:54,950 I think the issue is is is a zoning request if we feel that 2921 02:20:54,950 --> 02:20:59,399 these two properties would be compatible to move into a 2922 02:20:59,399 --> 02:21:00,719 multifamily concept. 2923 02:21:00,719 --> 02:21:03,549 It's one of those times where sometimes the project itself 2924 02:21:03,549 --> 02:21:05,719 might filter into that decision or not. 2925 02:21:05,719 --> 02:21:07,719 But we're not deciding on design tonight. 2926 02:21:07,719 --> 02:21:11,780 So although this is helpful and kind of interesting to see 2927 02:21:11,780 --> 02:21:15,290 your thoughts on the property tonight, it's just a matter 2928 02:21:15,290 --> 02:21:15,719 of if D.R. 2929 02:21:15,719 --> 02:21:21,389 two is appropriate or not. So I just want to make sure that 2930 02:21:21,389 --> 02:21:23,129 we weren't being skewed in our decision based on the avant 2931 02:21:23,129 --> 02:21:26,719 garde, as you put it, design of this project. 2932 02:21:26,719 --> 02:21:29,719 I'll look that word up later. 2933 02:21:29,719 --> 02:21:31,719 Commissioner Beck. 2934 02:21:31,719 --> 02:21:33,719 Thank you for your comments. 2935 02:21:33,719 --> 02:21:36,719 And again, I'm not opposed to it either. 2936 02:21:36,719 --> 02:21:39,719 I think it's it's it's interesting. 2937 02:21:39,719 --> 02:21:40,719 And living there wouldn't be a problem. 2938 02:21:40,719 --> 02:21:44,450 It's just that if you take something like that and stick it 2939 02:21:44,450 --> 02:21:48,049 in those two lots there with the existing housing that's 2940 02:21:48,049 --> 02:21:50,719 there, it's going to raise some eyebrows. 2941 02:21:50,719 --> 02:21:51,719 It's going to it's going to be offensive. 2942 02:21:51,719 --> 02:21:55,719 Some people it's just not going to fit in well. 2943 02:21:55,719 --> 02:21:59,719 Again, I understand we're looking at going from a D.R. 2944 02:21:59,719 --> 02:22:00,719 one to D.R. two. 2945 02:22:00,719 --> 02:22:04,799 And I was considering weighing in favor of maybe moving up 2946 02:22:04,799 --> 02:22:05,719 to D.R. 2947 02:22:05,719 --> 02:22:09,790 two, but I just just as a safety measure now, I'm almost 2948 02:22:09,790 --> 02:22:14,059 reluctant to do that if the possibility of something like 2949 02:22:14,059 --> 02:22:15,719 that goes in there. 2950 02:22:15,719 --> 02:22:17,719 So that's just me, though. 2951 02:22:17,719 --> 02:22:19,719 I don't know how everybody else is thinking here. 2952 02:22:19,719 --> 02:22:21,719 I may be the only one that's thinking like that. 2953 02:22:21,719 --> 02:22:25,719 It's just that if you're going to request a D.R. 2954 02:22:25,719 --> 02:22:28,940 two, it seems to me that you would want to fit in a little 2955 02:22:28,940 --> 02:22:32,440 bit more unnoticeably and whether it's cookie cutter or not 2956 02:22:32,440 --> 02:22:34,719 , it doesn't have to be cookie cutter. 2957 02:22:34,719 --> 02:22:37,719 It just storage containers just seem. 2958 02:22:37,719 --> 02:22:42,430 And I guess where I would ask on that is and to go back to 2959 02:22:42,430 --> 02:22:47,049 Commissioner Rosell's comment is in that case, I would say 2960 02:22:47,049 --> 02:22:48,719 that you would still elect to approve the D.R. 2961 02:22:48,719 --> 02:22:51,989 two and tackle that discussion when it came approving the 2962 02:22:51,989 --> 02:22:52,719 project. 2963 02:22:52,719 --> 02:22:55,659 And that's what I would respectfully request is that if you 2964 02:22:55,659 --> 02:22:56,719 're on board for D.R. 2965 02:22:56,719 --> 02:22:58,719 two, then D.R. 2966 02:22:58,719 --> 02:22:59,719 two would be the way to go. 2967 02:22:59,719 --> 02:23:02,770 And then we can tackle that because we still have to come 2968 02:23:02,770 --> 02:23:05,899 up to a building engineering and there would be some pieces 2969 02:23:05,899 --> 02:23:08,719 of variances because there are requirements. 2970 02:23:08,719 --> 02:23:12,590 So those concerns, I would say, would be fairly brought up 2971 02:23:12,590 --> 02:23:16,719 there and and and still push for the approval for the D.R. 2972 02:23:16,719 --> 02:23:17,719 two. 2973 02:23:17,719 --> 02:23:20,790 Well, I'll hold my thought on it for now until we get out 2974 02:23:20,790 --> 02:23:21,719 to the vote. 2975 02:23:21,719 --> 02:23:22,719 Fair enough. 2976 02:23:22,719 --> 02:23:24,719 I've got no other people on the board for questions. 2977 02:23:24,719 --> 02:23:25,719 Thank you. 2978 02:23:25,719 --> 02:23:27,719 OK, thank you. 2979 02:23:27,719 --> 02:23:29,719 And would you like to speak? 2980 02:23:29,719 --> 02:23:31,719 It's public hearing. 2981 02:23:31,719 --> 02:23:34,719 We're inviting you. 2982 02:23:34,719 --> 02:23:37,280 Please come up to the mic, give us your name and address 2983 02:23:37,280 --> 02:23:38,719 and give us your comments. 2984 02:23:38,719 --> 02:23:44,399 Sherry Patterson, 8805 Random Road, Fort Worth, Texas, 7617 2985 02:23:44,399 --> 02:23:44,719 9. 2986 02:23:44,719 --> 02:23:48,200 So I just wanted to address yours with the you know, we did 2987 02:23:48,200 --> 02:23:51,979 have a architect that has drawn everything up and so pl 2988 02:23:51,979 --> 02:23:55,239 atted it and the measurements are the good thing about these 2989 02:23:55,239 --> 02:23:55,719 things. 2990 02:23:55,719 --> 02:23:58,590 They're very large, so they don't take up a lot of space 2991 02:23:58,590 --> 02:24:00,719 and so that because it is a small lot. 2992 02:24:00,719 --> 02:24:05,469 So we have accounted for the green space, all the parking, 2993 02:24:05,469 --> 02:24:09,829 even, you know, park like areas for the tenants and so 2994 02:24:09,829 --> 02:24:10,719 forth. 2995 02:24:10,719 --> 02:24:14,450 So we have done all that and done all the measurements and 2996 02:24:14,450 --> 02:24:17,319 made sure of what will fit on there was still the 2997 02:24:17,319 --> 02:24:23,719 guidelines of how far you can be from the whole the street 2998 02:24:23,719 --> 02:24:24,719 and so forth. 2999 02:24:24,719 --> 02:24:27,780 So that's all I want to say, because I don't feel like he 3000 02:24:27,780 --> 02:24:30,739 answered that well and say that we actually have been 3001 02:24:30,739 --> 02:24:34,129 working with architects and everything that we have models 3002 02:24:34,129 --> 02:24:37,120 and the whole thing to see how it's going to fit on the lot 3003 02:24:37,120 --> 02:24:37,719 . 3004 02:24:37,719 --> 02:24:40,719 Right. Thank you. Thank you. 3005 02:24:40,719 --> 02:24:53,610 I've got a question for staff while we're still open to 3006 02:24:53,610 --> 02:24:56,459 public. Can we get Google Earth up and pull up that DCG 3007 02:24:56,459 --> 02:24:57,399 property that's there on the corner and see what's there 3008 02:24:57,399 --> 02:24:57,719 for Street View. 3009 02:24:57,719 --> 02:25:17,719 Oh, of course. 3010 02:25:17,719 --> 02:25:25,719 Right here. Yeah, right there. 3011 02:25:25,719 --> 02:25:28,719 That's what's there existing now correct. Yes, sir. 3012 02:25:28,719 --> 02:25:29,719 Okay. 3013 02:25:29,719 --> 02:25:33,709 I think that's helpful for us to get a perspective of what 3014 02:25:33,709 --> 02:25:36,719 's already there in the neighborhood. 3015 02:25:36,719 --> 02:25:39,659 It's not a whole lot different height wise and what's being 3016 02:25:39,659 --> 02:25:44,010 brought here before us this evening. I know this area is in 3017 02:25:44,010 --> 02:25:50,260 transition and there's a multitude of different style homes 3018 02:25:50,260 --> 02:25:54,719 duplexes and so forth but that's less than half a lot away. 3019 02:25:54,719 --> 02:25:57,159 That's the property I brought up about being DCG on the 3020 02:25:57,159 --> 02:26:00,719 corner. So thank you for doing that. 3021 02:26:00,719 --> 02:26:04,090 And this is a public hearing is there anyone else that 3022 02:26:04,090 --> 02:26:07,590 would like to come forward and speak on this item for us 3023 02:26:07,590 --> 02:26:08,719 this evening. 3024 02:26:08,719 --> 02:26:10,719 Great. 3025 02:26:10,719 --> 02:26:14,719 Please come forward and leave the car there. 3026 02:26:14,719 --> 02:26:17,659 Please give us your name and address, and you'll have four 3027 02:26:17,659 --> 02:26:18,719 minutes to speak. 3028 02:26:18,719 --> 02:26:26,030 I'm Dave Sutcliffe. My address is 1219 Avenue a Den right 3029 02:26:26,030 --> 02:26:27,719 around the corner from. 3030 02:26:27,719 --> 02:26:30,340 Can I ask you a question. Yes, you didn't mark your car to 3031 02:26:30,340 --> 02:26:33,200 support or opposition. Will you let us know how you can let 3032 02:26:33,200 --> 02:26:36,719 us know. I'll mark it for you. 3033 02:26:36,719 --> 02:26:39,770 I do not support it. Okay, you're in opposition opposition. 3034 02:26:39,770 --> 02:26:41,719 Okay, thank you. 3035 02:26:41,719 --> 02:26:47,209 I just wanted to I probably don't stand a chance here 3036 02:26:47,209 --> 02:26:48,719 whatsoever. He's going to do what he's going to do. 3037 02:26:48,719 --> 02:26:52,180 I just want to give you some my wife and I moved from Saint 3038 02:26:52,180 --> 02:26:53,719 Louis 7 years ago. 3039 02:26:53,719 --> 02:26:58,670 We both have family in Texas and we fell in love with then 3040 02:26:58,670 --> 02:26:59,719 moved to a place. 3041 02:26:59,719 --> 02:27:05,719 It was a 1313 Underwood, which was Avenue a and Underwood. 3042 02:27:05,719 --> 02:27:12,629 We were moved out of there. Our house was moved. The other 3043 02:27:12,629 --> 02:27:13,719 ones were destroyed on our block. 3044 02:27:13,719 --> 02:27:16,770 We live right across the street from where we used to live, 3045 02:27:16,770 --> 02:27:18,719 where they took our house. 3046 02:27:18,719 --> 02:27:23,059 And we were lucky we found that place or our daughter can 3047 02:27:23,059 --> 02:27:26,719 go to the same school as her buddies. 3048 02:27:26,719 --> 02:27:30,719 And that we had an easy time moving into a nice house, 3049 02:27:30,719 --> 02:27:31,719 another nice house. 3050 02:27:31,719 --> 02:27:35,209 But we're right across the street from a huge complex that 3051 02:27:35,209 --> 02:27:36,719 's being built on Avenue a. 3052 02:27:36,719 --> 02:27:42,209 And this thing right here is on the on the corner of our 3053 02:27:42,209 --> 02:27:45,719 block that we've we've learned to deal with it. 3054 02:27:45,719 --> 02:27:50,270 But this thing right behind us is going to is going to be 3055 02:27:50,270 --> 02:27:54,719 overlooking our backyard inside of our windows. 3056 02:27:54,719 --> 02:27:59,319 There's a big giant tree that holds a lot of wildlife and 3057 02:27:59,319 --> 02:28:04,719 he says he no not going to remove the tree for parking or 3058 02:28:04,719 --> 02:28:06,719 whatever. 3059 02:28:06,719 --> 02:28:12,510 I. That's that's most likely going to go to and that's 3060 02:28:12,510 --> 02:28:14,719 going to that's just going to. 3061 02:28:14,719 --> 02:28:18,719 Our privacy is just going to be absolutely gone. 3062 02:28:18,719 --> 02:28:25,719 And we're going to be able to just go back to the building 3063 02:28:25,719 --> 02:28:26,719 and replace that. 3064 02:28:26,719 --> 02:28:31,180 The trees like now the apartment complex is there. It's 3065 02:28:31,180 --> 02:28:33,719 just totally invasive. 3066 02:28:33,719 --> 02:28:36,719 We were out in our backyard all the time. 3067 02:28:36,719 --> 02:28:40,590 Got the sprinkler out there in the pool. And that's just 3068 02:28:40,590 --> 02:28:43,719 not going to happen with a. 3069 02:28:43,719 --> 02:28:54,340 The 3070 02:28:54,340 --> 02:28:56,719 Well over a year with with all the construct. 3071 02:28:56,719 --> 02:29:00,170 We we don't even know what it's going to be like when the 3072 02:29:00,170 --> 02:29:04,719 people start moving in and parking lot, the doors slamming, 3073 02:29:04,719 --> 02:29:06,719 the noise, the music. 3074 02:29:06,719 --> 02:29:12,000 And it's you can tell me it's a family friendly place, but 3075 02:29:12,000 --> 02:29:17,170 we know darn well that students are going to move in there 3076 02:29:17,170 --> 02:29:20,719 as they have in this place on the corner. 3077 02:29:20,719 --> 02:29:25,719 And and behind us, I'm it's says right there on your other 3078 02:29:25,719 --> 02:29:30,719 slide ideal for students and even says it right there. 3079 02:29:30,719 --> 02:29:39,719 It's not escaping us that students will be there. 3080 02:29:39,719 --> 02:29:41,719 Students are loud. 3081 02:29:41,719 --> 02:29:44,420 We were I'm just telling you my story because this is 3082 02:29:44,420 --> 02:29:45,719 getting out of hand. 3083 02:29:45,719 --> 02:29:51,209 We're something like that does happen where we've got to go 3084 02:29:51,209 --> 02:29:55,889 again somewhere where we could have some sort of resemb 3085 02:29:55,889 --> 02:29:58,719 lance of a family life. 3086 02:29:58,719 --> 02:30:04,510 And in that neighborhood, there is families around us on 3087 02:30:04,510 --> 02:30:07,719 both sides of us in back of us. 3088 02:30:07,719 --> 02:30:12,719 That's just out of place that that would be just he says it 3089 02:30:12,719 --> 02:30:14,719 would fit right in. 3090 02:30:14,719 --> 02:30:17,719 Sorry, I don't know your name. 3091 02:30:17,719 --> 02:30:21,719 But it would just just does not go. 3092 02:30:21,719 --> 02:30:29,200 Will not go no matter what. I mean, what angle you use to 3093 02:30:29,200 --> 02:30:29,719 try to get that in there. 3094 02:30:29,719 --> 02:30:33,719 It's just it just doesn't. 3095 02:30:33,719 --> 02:30:36,409 That's my personal story. I can't speak for anybody else 3096 02:30:36,409 --> 02:30:39,719 because, you know, nobody else bothered to show up. 3097 02:30:39,719 --> 02:30:42,719 But that is our story. 3098 02:30:42,719 --> 02:30:44,719 My time is your time. 3099 02:30:44,719 --> 02:30:45,719 I appreciate your comments. 3100 02:30:45,719 --> 02:30:48,360 All right, go. We have a question for you, Commissioner 3101 02:30:48,360 --> 02:30:48,719 Beck. 3102 02:30:48,719 --> 02:30:49,719 Thank you, Chair. I'm sorry. 3103 02:30:49,719 --> 02:30:52,719 What was your last name again? Sutcliffe Sutcliffe. 3104 02:30:52,719 --> 02:30:55,139 Thank you, Mr. Sutcliffe, for taking the time to come down 3105 02:30:55,139 --> 02:30:55,719 and speak. 3106 02:30:55,719 --> 02:31:00,649 If I could get hang on there, Julie, if you could come back 3107 02:31:00,649 --> 02:31:04,399 up and put the proposed zoning map on the on display for me 3108 02:31:04,399 --> 02:31:04,719 . 3109 02:31:04,719 --> 02:31:09,719 I want to ask Mr. Sutcliffe question. 3110 02:31:09,719 --> 02:31:12,719 Yeah, that one. 3111 02:31:12,719 --> 02:31:14,719 That better. 3112 02:31:14,719 --> 02:31:15,719 Yeah. 3113 02:31:15,719 --> 02:31:21,090 Well, OK. Where's your can you take the cursor and point to 3114 02:31:21,090 --> 02:31:30,719 your house, Mr. Sutcliffe? 3115 02:31:30,719 --> 02:31:32,719 OK. 3116 02:31:32,719 --> 02:31:33,719 Next one. 3117 02:31:33,719 --> 02:31:36,020 OK, so you're not right up against the apartments that are 3118 02:31:36,020 --> 02:31:36,719 on the corner. 3119 02:31:36,719 --> 02:31:38,719 Is that correct? 3120 02:31:38,719 --> 02:31:41,719 You're one lot down from where the apartments are. 3121 02:31:41,719 --> 02:31:45,719 Well, it's not directly behind us. OK, OK. 3122 02:31:45,719 --> 02:31:46,719 Let me ask you this. 3123 02:31:46,719 --> 02:31:51,270 And my question is, the lots that are still in DR one to 3124 02:31:51,270 --> 02:31:54,700 your knowledge, are those single family residential or 3125 02:31:54,700 --> 02:31:56,719 those just families living in there? 3126 02:31:56,719 --> 02:32:01,719 They've been converted to student housing. 3127 02:32:01,719 --> 02:32:05,719 All the houses, proper houses are family houses. 3128 02:32:05,719 --> 02:32:06,719 They have family. 3129 02:32:06,719 --> 02:32:08,719 They haven't been converted to. 3130 02:32:08,719 --> 02:32:13,409 No, no, it's the new buildings that are like better 3131 02:32:13,409 --> 02:32:15,719 students, singles. 3132 02:32:15,719 --> 02:32:20,719 OK, thank you, sir. 3133 02:32:20,719 --> 02:32:23,719 Any other questions? 3134 02:32:23,719 --> 02:32:24,719 Thank you, sir, for bringing your comments. 3135 02:32:24,719 --> 02:32:25,719 This is a public hearing. 3136 02:32:25,719 --> 02:32:30,479 Anyone else who would like to speak for or against this 3137 02:32:30,479 --> 02:32:34,719 project, please come forward at this time. 3138 02:32:34,719 --> 02:32:37,100 Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing and open the 3139 02:32:37,100 --> 02:32:38,719 floor for discussion or a motion. 3140 02:32:38,719 --> 02:32:40,719 Commissioner Hudspeth. 3141 02:32:40,719 --> 02:32:43,719 Yeah. 3142 02:32:43,719 --> 02:32:46,719 I think. 3143 02:32:46,719 --> 02:32:50,719 One, I still think it's early. 3144 02:32:50,719 --> 02:32:53,719 I was getting closer to peace with early. 3145 02:32:53,719 --> 02:32:59,209 But Dave has a point and there's been no there's of the 3146 02:32:59,209 --> 02:33:01,719 points made. 3147 02:33:01,719 --> 02:33:04,930 When you're talking about someone looking into the back of 3148 02:33:04,930 --> 02:33:05,719 your yard. 3149 02:33:05,719 --> 02:33:09,270 So now it's almost like there's no there's been no 3150 02:33:09,270 --> 02:33:11,719 explanation for that caveat. 3151 02:33:11,719 --> 02:33:14,719 It's there's there's one thing to say, hey, it fits. 3152 02:33:14,719 --> 02:33:17,719 There's one thing to say we're in front of the power curve. 3153 02:33:17,719 --> 02:33:22,670 It's another thing to say to me, I liken it to when you're 3154 02:33:22,670 --> 02:33:26,219 in school and you're in the lunch line and you tell 3155 02:33:26,219 --> 02:33:29,290 somebody, hey, you can't cut in front of me, but you're 3156 02:33:29,290 --> 02:33:30,719 going to have back cuts. 3157 02:33:30,719 --> 02:33:33,770 Right. So you're you're telling the person behind you, hey, 3158 02:33:33,770 --> 02:33:35,719 I don't I don't value your opinion that much. 3159 02:33:35,719 --> 02:33:41,209 And so I think there's nothing that mitigates that to me 3160 02:33:41,209 --> 02:33:46,229 unless we add a caveat that that multifamily either stays 3161 02:33:46,229 --> 02:33:50,049 one story or there's some mitigation at the back that 3162 02:33:50,049 --> 02:33:56,719 protects Dave to fully use his backyard. 3163 02:33:56,719 --> 02:33:58,719 Because otherwise he's absolutely right. 3164 02:33:58,719 --> 02:34:00,780 There's some sort of balcony, there's some sort of window 3165 02:34:00,780 --> 02:34:02,719 that's looking right down in the back of his yard. 3166 02:34:02,719 --> 02:34:06,030 And I have to be OK with saying, hey, Dave, I'm going to 3167 02:34:06,030 --> 02:34:08,719 let Mickey have back cuts in front of you. 3168 02:34:08,719 --> 02:34:10,719 And I don't think that's right. 3169 02:34:10,719 --> 02:34:13,549 And I'm probably outside looking in, but I would challenge 3170 02:34:13,549 --> 02:34:16,139 the other commissioners to justify that and do it at your 3171 02:34:16,139 --> 02:34:16,719 house. 3172 02:34:16,719 --> 02:34:22,899 So imagine you lose the use of your backyard because the 3173 02:34:22,899 --> 02:34:29,719 property in front of you is staring down at your backyard. 3174 02:34:29,719 --> 02:34:29,719 And if you're at peace with that, then then you're 3175 02:34:29,719 --> 02:34:29,719 different than me. 3176 02:34:29,719 --> 02:34:31,719 I'm not I wouldn't be OK with that. 3177 02:34:31,719 --> 02:34:36,319 So unless there's some sort of mitigation to go in place 3178 02:34:36,319 --> 02:34:41,229 flat zoning as is because the way I rationalize it, looking 3179 02:34:41,229 --> 02:34:43,719 at the zoning as is, it's not my fault. 3180 02:34:43,719 --> 02:34:47,790 If I sign on saying, hey, this is OK, then I'm accepting 3181 02:34:47,790 --> 02:34:51,430 that it's OK for apartment to be to look in the back of 3182 02:34:51,430 --> 02:34:52,719 Dave's yard. 3183 02:34:52,719 --> 02:34:56,719 And I'm not OK with that. So that's where I fall. 3184 02:34:56,719 --> 02:34:59,799 Just as a point of order, we could not do an overlay on 3185 02:34:59,799 --> 02:35:03,229 this project because we don't have a commercial component 3186 02:35:03,229 --> 02:35:04,719 that we're buffering. 3187 02:35:04,719 --> 02:35:06,719 OK. 3188 02:35:06,719 --> 02:35:07,719 Commissioner Beck. 3189 02:35:07,719 --> 02:35:09,719 Thank you, Chair. 3190 02:35:09,719 --> 02:35:13,500 I would suspect to you know, Mr. Sutcliffe is the only one 3191 02:35:13,500 --> 02:35:17,129 that came to the meeting that they're probably just about 3192 02:35:17,129 --> 02:35:21,110 every other one person that lives in that neighborhood that 3193 02:35:21,110 --> 02:35:24,149 lives in a single family home probably has similar 3194 02:35:24,149 --> 02:35:24,719 sentiments. 3195 02:35:24,719 --> 02:35:28,610 And that's why I've always had a problem with the 3196 02:35:28,610 --> 02:35:29,719 notification issue. 3197 02:35:29,719 --> 02:35:32,239 We don't always seem to get the feedback that's really out 3198 02:35:32,239 --> 02:35:32,719 there. 3199 02:35:32,719 --> 02:35:39,159 But that being said, I would like to make a motion that we 3200 02:35:39,159 --> 02:35:42,719 deny this zone change request. 3201 02:35:42,719 --> 02:35:43,719 Commissioner Roselle. 3202 02:35:43,719 --> 02:35:45,719 Thank you, Chair. 3203 02:35:45,719 --> 02:35:49,590 Thank you, Sutcliffe, for coming out and speaking and the 3204 02:35:49,590 --> 02:35:51,719 Patterson's for presenting. 3205 02:35:51,719 --> 02:35:55,170 It's an interesting predicament when an individual comes 3206 02:35:55,170 --> 02:35:58,590 with a zoning change and one person shows up against it and 3207 02:35:58,590 --> 02:35:59,719 it's the neighbor. 3208 02:35:59,719 --> 02:36:05,719 Because your concerns are valid and a lot of ways right. 3209 02:36:05,719 --> 02:36:08,770 But it's hard for me as a commissioner to hear the 3210 02:36:08,770 --> 02:36:12,290 testimony of one person, albeit the closest person, it 3211 02:36:12,290 --> 02:36:15,719 seems, and make the decision based on one person. 3212 02:36:15,719 --> 02:36:17,840 And I'm certainly not going to assume that any other 3213 02:36:17,840 --> 02:36:20,049 neighbor believes the same thing without them saying 3214 02:36:20,049 --> 02:36:20,719 something. 3215 02:36:20,719 --> 02:36:23,719 I think that's a dangerous assumption to make. 3216 02:36:23,719 --> 02:36:25,719 I don't know what they think. 3217 02:36:25,719 --> 02:36:31,079 And if we send that logical argument to its end, well, I 3218 02:36:31,079 --> 02:36:32,719 wouldn't want that in my backyard. 3219 02:36:32,719 --> 02:36:35,930 So probably the entire city's against this, right, if we 3220 02:36:35,930 --> 02:36:36,719 extend it. 3221 02:36:36,719 --> 02:36:39,770 And so I don't feel like we can say with any kind of 3222 02:36:39,770 --> 02:36:42,719 confidence what any other neighbor thinks. 3223 02:36:42,719 --> 02:36:44,719 It would just be an assumption on our part. 3224 02:36:44,719 --> 02:36:48,719 That being said, there's nothing else like it around. 3225 02:36:48,719 --> 02:36:51,719 There's nothing else looking in your backyard currently. 3226 02:36:51,719 --> 02:36:55,719 So it does change the landscape of your quality of life. 3227 02:36:55,719 --> 02:37:01,350 And so that's that certainly has some import to my decision 3228 02:37:01,350 --> 02:37:01,719 . 3229 02:37:01,719 --> 02:37:06,219 The greater scope, though, is just looking at this 3230 02:37:06,219 --> 02:37:11,250 neighborhood, the precedent, it seems, set that within a 3231 02:37:11,250 --> 02:37:16,700 stone's throw, 30 feet, there's there's a massive apartment 3232 02:37:16,700 --> 02:37:17,719 complex. 3233 02:37:17,719 --> 02:37:20,870 And to Commissioner Hutz's point about being ahead of the 3234 02:37:20,870 --> 02:37:24,590 power curve, if that assumes I'm not sure what a power 3235 02:37:24,590 --> 02:37:26,719 curve means, forgive me. 3236 02:37:26,719 --> 02:37:29,840 But if there's a momentum shift of this neighborhood, 3237 02:37:29,840 --> 02:37:31,719 someone's going to be first. 3238 02:37:31,719 --> 02:37:35,450 And so it's hard to put the onus on them that they're early 3239 02:37:35,450 --> 02:37:35,719 . 3240 02:37:35,719 --> 02:37:38,549 Maybe actually they're at the beginning of that power curve 3241 02:37:38,549 --> 02:37:38,719 . 3242 02:37:38,719 --> 02:37:42,239 Maybe they're the instance that actually propels what you 3243 02:37:42,239 --> 02:37:45,719 believe is a foregone conclusion already into place. 3244 02:37:45,719 --> 02:37:48,719 I just don't know about that either. 3245 02:37:48,719 --> 02:37:49,719 I know I'm being vague here. 3246 02:37:49,719 --> 02:37:52,719 I think it could go either way. 3247 02:37:52,719 --> 02:37:57,020 That being said, seeing that this block has already started 3248 02:37:57,020 --> 02:38:01,059 the momentum of changing on the northwest corner, the 3249 02:38:01,059 --> 02:38:05,719 southwest corner, even up Neff Street on the east side, 3250 02:38:05,719 --> 02:38:08,350 those are duplexes, but it changes the character of the 3251 02:38:08,350 --> 02:38:11,209 street, albeit not from a zoning perspective, from an 3252 02:38:11,209 --> 02:38:13,719 aesthetics perspective for sure. 3253 02:38:13,719 --> 02:38:20,799 Neff Street, it looks like, is evolving into just a more 3254 02:38:20,799 --> 02:38:23,719 dense type of living area. 3255 02:38:23,719 --> 02:38:26,190 So I say that all to say I'm interested in the other 3256 02:38:26,190 --> 02:38:27,719 commissioners thoughts. 3257 02:38:27,719 --> 02:38:29,719 I appreciate very much. 3258 02:38:29,719 --> 02:38:31,719 So I'm not undermining what you're thinking. 3259 02:38:31,719 --> 02:38:34,719 I just want you to know that the tension I have is I don't 3260 02:38:34,719 --> 02:38:36,719 know what anyone else thinks. 3261 02:38:36,719 --> 02:38:40,450 And I fear one property owner having so much power over 3262 02:38:40,450 --> 02:38:44,719 another property's owners ability to act on their property. 3263 02:38:44,719 --> 02:38:46,719 They've they've purchased the property. 3264 02:38:46,719 --> 02:38:49,829 And so they they have some authority over what can be built 3265 02:38:49,829 --> 02:38:51,719 within the purviews of zoning. 3266 02:38:51,719 --> 02:38:52,719 So there's a tension there. 3267 02:38:52,719 --> 02:38:54,719 What do you want for your property? 3268 02:38:54,719 --> 02:38:55,719 What do you want for your property? 3269 02:38:55,719 --> 02:38:58,719 And then how greater impacts the city. 3270 02:38:58,719 --> 02:39:02,760 And so it's certainly kind of a sticky situation, but it 3271 02:39:02,760 --> 02:39:06,719 seems like precedent has begun to be set in the area. 3272 02:39:06,719 --> 02:39:08,719 That's all I got. 3273 02:39:08,719 --> 02:39:10,719 McCall on a Julie. 3274 02:39:10,719 --> 02:39:13,430 I'm going to have a couple of comments to pull up our 3275 02:39:13,430 --> 02:39:14,719 Google Earth again. 3276 02:39:14,719 --> 02:39:17,719 And I'd like for you to pull up in our map here. 3277 02:39:17,719 --> 02:39:23,350 It shows a structure to the west of this project right here 3278 02:39:23,350 --> 02:39:23,719 . 3279 02:39:23,719 --> 02:39:27,719 If you can go across the street on our map, it shows. 3280 02:39:27,719 --> 02:39:31,719 No, to the west, the apartment community that you have up, 3281 02:39:31,719 --> 02:39:36,059 if you'll just turn the street view 180 degrees and look 3282 02:39:36,059 --> 02:39:38,719 west, that's no longer there. 3283 02:39:38,719 --> 02:39:41,719 It's unfortunately it's OK now. 3284 02:39:41,719 --> 02:39:42,719 It just disappeared. 3285 02:39:42,719 --> 02:39:48,719 Well, magic. 3286 02:39:48,719 --> 02:39:50,719 Tomorrow might be a great day. 3287 02:39:50,719 --> 02:39:56,209 I'm going to try that when I get up in the morning and tell 3288 02:39:56,209 --> 02:39:58,719 them what might happen. 3289 02:39:58,719 --> 02:40:04,719 So I appreciate you pulling this up because I am torn also, 3290 02:40:04,719 --> 02:40:10,120 like Commissioner Roselle says, in regards to the map, the 3291 02:40:10,120 --> 02:40:11,719 testimony. 3292 02:40:11,719 --> 02:40:15,600 And yet I don't know who ever is going to be first versus 3293 02:40:15,600 --> 02:40:16,719 whose last. 3294 02:40:16,719 --> 02:40:18,719 First is there on the corner. 3295 02:40:18,719 --> 02:40:20,719 I think next is across the street. 3296 02:40:20,719 --> 02:40:23,719 It has been cleared. 3297 02:40:23,719 --> 02:40:25,719 It's obviously no longer single family. 3298 02:40:25,719 --> 02:40:29,450 The likelihood that single family will be built there, I 3299 02:40:29,450 --> 02:40:30,719 think, is zero. 3300 02:40:30,719 --> 02:40:34,719 It's it's D.R. 2 in North Texas area. 3301 02:40:34,719 --> 02:40:38,590 And I think, unfortunately, that's just the reality of 3302 02:40:38,590 --> 02:40:39,719 where we are. 3303 02:40:39,719 --> 02:40:42,600 And I think as you pan down the street, if you look to the 3304 02:40:42,600 --> 02:40:44,719 north, there's apartments there. 3305 02:40:44,719 --> 02:40:47,719 There's apartments being built further down. 3306 02:40:47,719 --> 02:40:52,719 It is a transitional neighborhood. 3307 02:40:52,719 --> 02:40:58,719 I understand that it is very invasive for single family. 3308 02:40:58,719 --> 02:41:04,659 And yet there is development and redevelopment taking place 3309 02:41:04,659 --> 02:41:08,989 across the street, probably getting ready to take place 3310 02:41:08,989 --> 02:41:10,719 across the street again. 3311 02:41:10,719 --> 02:41:14,670 And I'm torn because we have before us many times as a 3312 02:41:14,670 --> 02:41:17,719 commission, we don't want it here. We want it over there. 3313 02:41:17,719 --> 02:41:22,409 Well, now it's over there and I don't know that I want it 3314 02:41:22,409 --> 02:41:23,719 over there. 3315 02:41:23,719 --> 02:41:28,170 And so I'm I think I'm leaning to with just driving by and 3316 02:41:28,170 --> 02:41:32,719 take a look at what was around there that, you know, 3317 02:41:32,719 --> 02:41:36,600 even though it may be contrary to staff's suggestion that, 3318 02:41:36,600 --> 02:41:40,610 you know, to to rezoning, but I do think it's transitioning 3319 02:41:40,610 --> 02:41:44,110 and I think it's that's direction that it's that it's going 3320 02:41:44,110 --> 02:41:44,719 to go. 3321 02:41:44,719 --> 02:41:48,840 So I appreciate you pulling this up to be able to take a 3322 02:41:48,840 --> 02:41:53,250 look at it for everybody as to what is really going on over 3323 02:41:53,250 --> 02:41:55,719 there in the neighborhood. 3324 02:41:55,719 --> 02:41:58,719 Commissioner Taylor. Thank you, Chair. 3325 02:41:58,719 --> 02:42:07,229 So this is the intersection of a lot of things we we have 3326 02:42:07,229 --> 02:42:09,719 generally zoned to this area. 3327 02:42:09,719 --> 02:42:14,979 We've changed the zoning one or two lots at a time in this 3328 02:42:14,979 --> 02:42:17,719 area, mainly along Eagle. 3329 02:42:17,719 --> 02:42:19,829 The apartments that came in, we might have the occasional 3330 02:42:19,829 --> 02:42:22,020 apartment that would be 10 or 15 lots and maybe two or 3331 02:42:22,020 --> 02:42:23,719 three zoning categories that would change. 3332 02:42:23,719 --> 02:42:27,680 But inside along Fannin Street and Margie and trying to see 3333 02:42:27,680 --> 02:42:30,719 what all there is what there is over here. 3334 02:42:30,719 --> 02:42:35,159 I can remember cases along all of these where the first 3335 02:42:35,159 --> 02:42:39,360 house on the block was rezoned and then two more lots went 3336 02:42:39,360 --> 02:42:41,719 or the lot that backed up to it went. 3337 02:42:41,719 --> 02:42:48,090 So this area is is has been slowly transitioning for at 3338 02:42:48,090 --> 02:42:51,719 least 15 years or more. 3339 02:42:51,719 --> 02:42:58,000 And I realize that there there can be some stable 3340 02:42:58,000 --> 02:43:01,719 neighborhoods with rentals. 3341 02:43:01,719 --> 02:43:05,590 But typically the investment that protects the neighborhood 3342 02:43:05,590 --> 02:43:07,719 is with owner occupied houses. 3343 02:43:07,719 --> 02:43:10,840 And there are just a tiny handful. I'm flipping through the 3344 02:43:10,840 --> 02:43:14,719 tax rolls here and about 10 houses, 12 houses a block, 3345 02:43:14,719 --> 02:43:19,719 maybe one in 10 or one in 15 is owner occupied. 3346 02:43:19,719 --> 02:43:22,760 And about half the addresses are somewhere else in town and 3347 02:43:22,760 --> 02:43:25,719 half the addresses are out of state out of the country. 3348 02:43:25,719 --> 02:43:29,090 There's a there's a row of those giant duplexes at the end 3349 02:43:29,090 --> 02:43:29,719 of Neff. 3350 02:43:29,719 --> 02:43:32,020 They're owned by somebody that lives in Venezuela or 3351 02:43:32,020 --> 02:43:32,719 something. 3352 02:43:32,719 --> 02:43:38,209 So I think we I feel like this area is going to be going to 3353 02:43:38,209 --> 02:43:43,250 transition no matter what we can slow it down and we can 3354 02:43:43,250 --> 02:43:45,719 say the lot on the corner has to go first. 3355 02:43:45,719 --> 02:43:47,719 But I don't think that really helps. 3356 02:43:47,719 --> 02:43:53,780 I also worry that frankly those 5000 square foot two story 3357 02:43:53,780 --> 02:43:59,799 duplexes are probably a worse option than an apartment, a 3358 02:43:59,799 --> 02:44:04,420 small apartment with a maximum 40 feet or 45 feet in height 3359 02:44:04,420 --> 02:44:04,719 . 3360 02:44:04,719 --> 02:44:09,319 So so I feel the pain for I feel your pain of having a 3361 02:44:09,319 --> 02:44:12,719 development coming behind you. 3362 02:44:12,719 --> 02:44:16,030 I've experienced that myself and it made me move from where 3363 02:44:16,030 --> 02:44:18,719 I was renting at the time. But I I don't think there's 3364 02:44:18,719 --> 02:44:20,719 anything that would stop the development here. 3365 02:44:20,719 --> 02:44:23,989 And I think it would be better to have a smaller higher 3366 02:44:23,989 --> 02:44:29,319 quality, a small high quality apartment complex than 3367 02:44:29,319 --> 02:44:34,719 somebody maximizing a duplex on these on these lots. 3368 02:44:34,719 --> 02:44:38,760 And you'd have the same problem with the multi story duplex 3369 02:44:38,760 --> 02:44:40,719 right behind you as well. 3370 02:44:40,719 --> 02:44:42,719 Commissioner Ellis. 3371 02:44:42,719 --> 02:44:46,450 Thank you, Chair. Yeah, I have been on the fence, you know, 3372 02:44:46,450 --> 02:44:49,979 since I started reading all the material on this in driving 3373 02:44:49,979 --> 02:44:51,719 the area a couple of times. 3374 02:44:51,719 --> 02:44:55,450 I think even though it's it's dear one, I think those 3375 02:44:55,450 --> 02:44:59,450 clusters of duplexes on the corners are already pushing the 3376 02:44:59,450 --> 02:45:03,719 limit of where this area is going to this higher density. 3377 02:45:03,719 --> 02:45:08,170 I would hate to see this this not redeveloped and this sit 3378 02:45:08,170 --> 02:45:11,719 vacant to Commissioner Taylor's point. 3379 02:45:11,719 --> 02:45:16,649 I think it is in transition and the transition is to go to 3380 02:45:16,649 --> 02:45:19,719 the air to and higher density. 3381 02:45:19,719 --> 02:45:24,260 I fully understand your comments. I know that the building 3382 02:45:24,260 --> 02:45:26,719 heights don't vary that that much. 3383 02:45:26,719 --> 02:45:29,219 It's five feet difference. It's 40 feet with the air. One 3384 02:45:29,219 --> 02:45:32,719 forty five with the air to. 3385 02:45:32,719 --> 02:45:37,819 But I am leaning in support of this because I do see that 3386 02:45:37,819 --> 02:45:44,719 it would it would fit with where the area is heading. 3387 02:45:44,719 --> 02:45:48,719 Commissioner Hodge with. 3388 02:45:48,719 --> 02:45:53,270 Thank you. Just again, I've heard the comments and and I'll 3389 02:45:53,270 --> 02:45:54,719 I'll take that. 3390 02:45:54,719 --> 02:45:59,809 I'll use that last little nugget if if the height 3391 02:45:59,809 --> 02:46:05,540 difference doesn't matter that much, then it doesn't matter 3392 02:46:05,540 --> 02:46:06,719 that much to change it. 3393 02:46:06,719 --> 02:46:09,989 Right. So either the height height difference matters or 3394 02:46:09,989 --> 02:46:10,719 does not. 3395 02:46:10,719 --> 02:46:13,930 And if I grab that quote, you said the height doesn't doesn 3396 02:46:13,930 --> 02:46:14,719 't matter. 3397 02:46:14,719 --> 02:46:17,719 Then I agree with you. It doesn't matter. 3398 02:46:17,719 --> 02:46:22,760 And so I would leave it as is personally just because it's 3399 02:46:22,760 --> 02:46:25,719 not that big of a difference. 3400 02:46:25,719 --> 02:46:35,719 And I again, we all agree that it's the area is changing. 3401 02:46:35,719 --> 02:46:38,719 No one's disagreeing with that. I've not heard anyone. 3402 02:46:38,719 --> 02:46:42,180 And I again, I'm certain I'm outside looking in. I did 3403 02:46:42,180 --> 02:46:46,719 second Commissioner Beck's motion to deny. 3404 02:46:46,719 --> 02:46:52,200 But I've not heard anyone. Commissioner Taylor mentioned he 3405 02:46:52,200 --> 02:46:54,719 's been victim of it and he moved. 3406 02:46:54,719 --> 02:46:58,719 But I've not heard anyone. 3407 02:46:58,719 --> 02:47:03,379 I guess by not saying that you are saying you're okay with 3408 02:47:03,379 --> 02:47:07,260 that dynamic of someone building something that looks 3409 02:47:07,260 --> 02:47:08,719 directly into the end of the neighbor's home. 3410 02:47:08,719 --> 02:47:11,860 But I'll tell you, there's nothing on that block currently 3411 02:47:11,860 --> 02:47:13,719 built that says that does that. 3412 02:47:13,719 --> 02:47:18,399 There's nothing anywhere in that area that simulates what 3413 02:47:18,399 --> 02:47:22,719 they're up against conceding it's going that way. 3414 02:47:22,719 --> 02:47:25,860 My only point is one, it hadn't been done to anyone on the 3415 02:47:25,860 --> 02:47:27,719 block anywhere in there yet. 3416 02:47:27,719 --> 02:47:32,389 Two, if everyone lives in all these different states and 3417 02:47:32,389 --> 02:47:34,719 all these different places, 3418 02:47:34,719 --> 02:47:38,739 then I find it interesting that they wouldn't be on board 3419 02:47:38,739 --> 02:47:42,620 for signing up to partner up with them and giving their 3420 02:47:42,620 --> 02:47:43,719 thumbs up. 3421 02:47:43,719 --> 02:47:47,719 I mean, they live elsewhere. It's an investment property. 3422 02:47:47,719 --> 02:47:49,719 They're all in. 3423 02:47:49,719 --> 02:47:53,790 Where are they? So I'm assuming they have businesses. I'm 3424 02:47:53,790 --> 02:47:54,719 assuming they have business numbers. 3425 02:47:54,719 --> 02:47:57,770 I'm assuming they have all these points of access, but 3426 02:47:57,770 --> 02:47:59,719 somehow they're missing as well. 3427 02:47:59,719 --> 02:48:03,090 So my point is simply point for point, we can agree the 3428 02:48:03,090 --> 02:48:04,719 area's transitioned. 3429 02:48:04,719 --> 02:48:09,049 We can agree it's coming. My point is this is in the middle 3430 02:48:09,049 --> 02:48:11,719 of the block, it's not the place to start. 3431 02:48:11,719 --> 02:48:14,799 My point is I didn't set the zoning for that corner, and 3432 02:48:14,799 --> 02:48:17,719 that corner lot does not look in anyone's yard. 3433 02:48:17,719 --> 02:48:20,719 And so I'd love to, I mean, we'll vote and we'll be done. 3434 02:48:20,719 --> 02:48:26,549 But that's my point, that no one's addressed the fact that 3435 02:48:26,549 --> 02:48:30,719 or not, in my humble opinion, made it okay, 3436 02:48:30,719 --> 02:48:34,200 that this is going, we're going to launch in the middle of 3437 02:48:34,200 --> 02:48:36,719 a street that has a direct vantage point. 3438 02:48:36,719 --> 02:48:40,450 And renting or not, I don't think, I mean, they're going to 3439 02:48:40,450 --> 02:48:42,719 lose their backyard to some degree. 3440 02:48:42,719 --> 02:48:49,590 And I count, get back to four, well, I lost my, no, it didn 3441 02:48:49,590 --> 02:48:51,719 't, here we go. 3442 02:48:51,719 --> 02:48:55,290 There are, let's see, on the back of that vacant lot, there 3443 02:48:55,290 --> 02:48:57,719 's one, two, three, four structures. 3444 02:48:57,719 --> 02:48:59,719 You call that one a garage. 3445 02:48:59,719 --> 02:49:03,590 So three structures that are going to volunteer their 3446 02:49:03,590 --> 02:49:05,719 backyard for this project. 3447 02:49:05,719 --> 02:49:08,719 And there's no other backyards in that neighborhood. 3448 02:49:08,719 --> 02:49:12,629 You can Google street, you can Google earth, you can aerial 3449 02:49:12,629 --> 02:49:13,719 all you want. 3450 02:49:13,719 --> 02:49:16,899 This will be the launching point for looking in people's 3451 02:49:16,899 --> 02:49:17,719 backyard. 3452 02:49:17,719 --> 02:49:20,549 They'll have a shot at Avenue A and they'll have a shot at 3453 02:49:20,549 --> 02:49:23,870 Greenlea's backyard, depending on what kind of structure 3454 02:49:23,870 --> 02:49:24,719 goes there. 3455 02:49:24,719 --> 02:49:25,719 So that's my only concern. 3456 02:49:25,719 --> 02:49:27,719 That's why I'm not supporting it. 3457 02:49:27,719 --> 02:49:29,719 Commissioner Rossell. 3458 02:49:29,719 --> 02:49:31,719 Thanks, Chair. 3459 02:49:31,719 --> 02:49:36,389 To your point, Commissioner, I think the property first 3460 02:49:36,389 --> 02:49:40,860 shown on the corner certainly looks into a couple of back 3461 02:49:40,860 --> 02:49:41,719 yards. 3462 02:49:41,719 --> 02:49:42,719 There's no windows on the end? 3463 02:49:42,719 --> 02:49:44,719 That's my assumption. 3464 02:49:44,719 --> 02:49:47,899 But I guess moreover to Commissioner Ellis's point, the 3465 02:49:47,899 --> 02:49:51,020 property owners right now could build a 40-foot building 3466 02:49:51,020 --> 02:49:51,719 right now. 3467 02:49:51,719 --> 02:49:55,719 And that would ostensibly ruin their backyard, is what you 3468 02:49:55,719 --> 02:49:56,719 're saying. 3469 02:49:56,719 --> 02:49:59,639 So it's not that by us approving this, we're systematically 3470 02:49:59,639 --> 02:50:01,719 ruining the individual's backyard. 3471 02:50:01,719 --> 02:50:05,629 That has the potential to be ruined, quote unquote, 3472 02:50:05,629 --> 02:50:07,719 regardless of this vote. 3473 02:50:07,719 --> 02:50:12,600 So if the deny goes through as you're voting, that doesn't 3474 02:50:12,600 --> 02:50:16,719 protect them from someone looking into their backyard. 3475 02:50:16,719 --> 02:50:19,260 I hope that's known that you're not protecting their 3476 02:50:19,260 --> 02:50:20,719 backyard by this denial. 3477 02:50:20,719 --> 02:50:21,719 True. 3478 02:50:21,719 --> 02:50:27,110 It would just be changing the scope in which the individual 3479 02:50:27,110 --> 02:50:27,719 is. 3480 02:50:27,719 --> 02:50:31,719 I mean, if they're running a duplex or part of a complex. 3481 02:50:31,719 --> 02:50:34,719 I've got one final question for staff. 3482 02:50:34,719 --> 02:50:37,719 I'm going to call on Menal to come up. 3483 02:50:37,719 --> 02:50:51,479 And I just want to throw it and ask your professional 3484 02:50:51,479 --> 02:50:54,719 opinion. 3485 02:50:54,719 --> 02:50:58,090 I think you hear the direction we're going on the mid-block 3486 02:50:58,090 --> 02:50:58,719 rezone. 3487 02:50:58,719 --> 02:51:02,719 I'd like to get your perspective on it. 3488 02:51:02,719 --> 02:51:06,270 A couple of things, I'd like to preface the answer with a 3489 02:51:06,270 --> 02:51:11,059 couple of statements that were brought up that staff or the 3490 02:51:11,059 --> 02:51:12,719 planning division has re-zoned several properties, 3491 02:51:12,719 --> 02:51:15,719 perhaps mid-block or at specific hard corners. 3492 02:51:15,719 --> 02:51:18,270 And that's been going on, and that's a trend that you've 3493 02:51:18,270 --> 02:51:18,719 seen. 3494 02:51:18,719 --> 02:51:21,850 However, if we look back a little bit, we've revisited that 3495 02:51:21,850 --> 02:51:26,450 methodology, so to speak, or that pattern and discerned 3496 02:51:26,450 --> 02:51:28,819 that we have a couple of issues that we need to take under 3497 02:51:28,819 --> 02:51:29,719 consideration. 3498 02:51:29,719 --> 02:51:34,670 One primarily being the integrity of existing neighborhoods 3499 02:51:34,670 --> 02:51:36,719 or zoning districts. 3500 02:51:36,719 --> 02:51:41,719 To follow that, we're also talking about small area plans. 3501 02:51:41,719 --> 02:51:45,590 We've been talking about what the activity associated with 3502 02:51:45,590 --> 02:51:46,719 that would be. 3503 02:51:46,719 --> 02:51:49,829 So when we visit this property and what's come before us in 3504 02:51:49,829 --> 02:51:52,719 terms of the analysis that the planning division has 3505 02:51:52,719 --> 02:51:53,719 conducted, 3506 02:51:53,719 --> 02:51:57,909 it's primarily based on we're taking a piece of a puzzle 3507 02:51:57,909 --> 02:52:02,059 out of a puzzle that's already built and leaving a bit of a 3508 02:52:02,059 --> 02:52:02,719 hole in there, 3509 02:52:02,719 --> 02:52:06,180 assuming that there will be vertical integration of some 3510 02:52:06,180 --> 02:52:06,719 type. 3511 02:52:06,719 --> 02:52:08,719 So some of that is assumption based. 3512 02:52:08,719 --> 02:52:11,770 And then it goes back to the bigger question that P&Z 3513 02:52:11,770 --> 02:52:14,420 raised with us several times is, why don't we look at 3514 02:52:14,420 --> 02:52:15,719 zoning from a cohesive standpoint? 3515 02:52:15,719 --> 02:52:18,719 Why don't we take bigger parcels and zone them together? 3516 02:52:18,719 --> 02:52:22,639 So putting that whole puzzle together, that is why you see 3517 02:52:22,639 --> 02:52:27,059 the recommendation of the planning division saying that at 3518 02:52:27,059 --> 02:52:28,719 this time, 3519 02:52:28,719 --> 02:52:32,600 I think the better way to put it is that it is not feasible 3520 02:52:32,600 --> 02:52:36,719 from a planning perspective to rezone this property. 3521 02:52:36,719 --> 02:52:39,719 And although you've mentioned that uses are very similar, 3522 02:52:39,719 --> 02:52:43,110 for example, or building heights are very similar when we 3523 02:52:43,110 --> 02:52:46,260 talk about zoning and the cohesiveness of the zoning 3524 02:52:46,260 --> 02:52:46,719 pattern, 3525 02:52:46,719 --> 02:52:49,719 that's the analysis that was conducted based on this. 3526 02:52:49,719 --> 02:52:52,200 I definitely agree that there are a lot of concepts out 3527 02:52:52,200 --> 02:52:52,719 there. 3528 02:52:52,719 --> 02:52:54,719 I also agree that there are separations. 3529 02:52:54,719 --> 02:52:56,719 You can create physical separations by street. 3530 02:52:56,719 --> 02:53:00,719 You can create physical separations by structure. 3531 02:53:00,719 --> 02:53:04,450 In this case, we don't have that solid line as it relates 3532 02:53:04,450 --> 02:53:08,110 to the subject property in association with what's around 3533 02:53:08,110 --> 02:53:10,719 them, abutting them. 3534 02:53:10,719 --> 02:53:14,719 That was the -- did I answer your question? 3535 02:53:14,719 --> 02:53:15,719 I attempted to. 3536 02:53:15,719 --> 02:53:22,430 I think you're doing a good job on providing staff's 3537 02:53:22,430 --> 02:53:24,719 perspective. 3538 02:53:24,719 --> 02:53:28,739 I guess I'm struggling a little bit with supporting staff's 3539 02:53:28,739 --> 02:53:33,059 perspective with the apartments already on the corner, I 3540 02:53:33,059 --> 02:53:34,719 guess the southwest corner, 3541 02:53:34,719 --> 02:53:39,229 and all of this going on across the street is -- why is it 3542 02:53:39,229 --> 02:53:40,719 so different? 3543 02:53:40,719 --> 02:53:46,389 Why is the one lot over with all that's going on around it 3544 02:53:46,389 --> 02:53:50,020 -- where do you draw the line of this is neighborhood and 3545 02:53:50,020 --> 02:53:55,069 this is multifamily when it seems to be somewhat intertw 3546 02:53:55,069 --> 02:53:55,719 ined? 3547 02:53:55,719 --> 02:53:58,770 Absolutely intertwined, perhaps based on the DR2 districts, 3548 02:53:58,770 --> 02:54:02,020 keeping in mind that we also have a development code that's 3549 02:54:02,020 --> 02:54:02,719 online. 3550 02:54:02,719 --> 02:54:05,809 So you've got so many parameters that are at play or so 3551 02:54:05,809 --> 02:54:07,719 many moving parts right now. 3552 02:54:07,719 --> 02:54:10,180 If there is a use that needs to be developed and we're 3553 02:54:10,180 --> 02:54:13,889 talking about .4 acre, then perhaps that ingenuity needs to 3554 02:54:13,889 --> 02:54:18,250 be broadened or expanded to take in a little more maybe in 3555 02:54:18,250 --> 02:54:20,719 terms of property area or lot area. 3556 02:54:20,719 --> 02:54:26,209 This is already subject to the small area plan that we are 3557 02:54:26,209 --> 02:54:28,719 currently initiating. 3558 02:54:28,719 --> 02:54:31,829 Since we're in public session, can we get an insight as to 3559 02:54:31,829 --> 02:54:33,719 the small area plan direction? 3560 02:54:33,719 --> 02:54:34,719 Is it going DR2? 3561 02:54:34,719 --> 02:54:36,719 Is it going DCG? 3562 02:54:36,719 --> 02:54:39,719 Well, we're still at the beginning phases. 3563 02:54:39,719 --> 02:54:41,719 Of course, we're going to take public input. 3564 02:54:41,719 --> 02:54:45,190 We're going to do some outreach to the neighborhood and see 3565 02:54:45,190 --> 02:54:47,719 how they want to see this area develop. 3566 02:54:47,719 --> 02:54:51,020 But what we can say at this point is that this area is 3567 02:54:51,020 --> 02:54:53,719 included in the study area boundary. 3568 02:54:53,719 --> 02:54:57,590 And so how it turns out is going to be dependent on the 3569 02:54:57,590 --> 02:55:01,719 feedback that we get from that area of the community. 3570 02:55:01,719 --> 02:55:04,719 Okay. 3571 02:55:04,719 --> 02:55:07,719 There you have your presentation. 3572 02:55:07,719 --> 02:55:08,719 Super. 3573 02:55:08,719 --> 02:55:12,450 So, yes, we do have the small area plan that's under 3574 02:55:12,450 --> 02:55:14,719 consideration, so to speak. 3575 02:55:14,719 --> 02:55:20,129 Looking at the aerial imagery that we have before us, the 3576 02:55:20,129 --> 02:55:25,719 abutting uses are primarily residential in nature too. 3577 02:55:25,719 --> 02:55:26,719 Chair? 3578 02:55:26,719 --> 02:55:28,719 Commissioner Rossello. 3579 02:55:28,719 --> 02:55:31,229 I just wanted to pick up on all this brain while you're 3580 02:55:31,229 --> 02:55:31,719 here. 3581 02:55:31,719 --> 02:55:32,719 Okay. 3582 02:55:32,719 --> 02:55:34,719 The small area plan. 3583 02:55:34,719 --> 02:55:36,719 Can you help me out? 3584 02:55:36,719 --> 02:55:41,530 If it is the direction of the small area plan to -- I don't 3585 02:55:41,530 --> 02:55:43,719 know how to word this. 3586 02:55:43,719 --> 02:55:47,450 Could they override what we change or deny tonight by a 3587 02:55:47,450 --> 02:55:48,719 zoning change? 3588 02:55:48,719 --> 02:55:51,719 So the small area plan is a vision. 3589 02:55:51,719 --> 02:55:52,719 It's a visioning document. 3590 02:55:52,719 --> 02:55:55,549 Through that, you can design patent books and you can 3591 02:55:55,549 --> 02:55:58,719 establish specific criteria or an implementation plan. 3592 02:55:58,719 --> 02:56:01,940 Then you establish your design criteria or your development 3593 02:56:01,940 --> 02:56:03,719 patent associated with that. 3594 02:56:03,719 --> 02:56:08,069 If there then is a need to rezone to bring everything back 3595 02:56:08,069 --> 02:56:11,610 into -- that's when -- are we altering -- the question then 3596 02:56:11,610 --> 02:56:11,719 is, 3597 02:56:11,719 --> 02:56:16,129 is this zoning case going to alter the land use patent of 3598 02:56:16,129 --> 02:56:18,719 immediate or adjacent uses? 3599 02:56:18,719 --> 02:56:21,719 And do we have a timeline on the small area plan? 3600 02:56:21,719 --> 02:56:25,790 It is approximately at a minimum an 18-month program due to 3601 02:56:25,790 --> 02:56:29,719 the public involvement that we're going to have with it. 3602 02:56:29,719 --> 02:56:32,719 So we're looking at the beginning of 2019? 3603 02:56:32,719 --> 02:56:34,719 So we are looking at -- 3604 02:56:34,719 --> 02:56:35,719 Mid-19? 3605 02:56:35,719 --> 02:56:37,719 End of 2018 probably. 3606 02:56:37,719 --> 02:56:39,719 Okay. 3607 02:56:39,719 --> 02:56:41,719 Thank you. 3608 02:56:41,719 --> 02:56:45,719 But again, our initiative is to make sure we start bringing 3609 02:56:45,719 --> 02:56:49,139 things back to how you as a PNZ have visioned -- have done 3610 02:56:49,139 --> 02:56:49,719 your visioning with us, 3611 02:56:49,719 --> 02:56:53,680 highlighted several issues to us as well, which we concur 3612 02:56:53,680 --> 02:56:55,719 with as well to a great extent. 3613 02:56:55,719 --> 02:56:57,719 I mean, I'm sure we disagree on certain things, but -- 3614 02:56:57,719 --> 02:56:58,719 Never. 3615 02:56:58,719 --> 02:57:00,719 Never, absolutely. 3616 02:57:00,719 --> 02:57:03,350 But from a basic framework standpoint, whenever we've 3617 02:57:03,350 --> 02:57:06,719 talked about what are we doing, what are we protecting, 3618 02:57:06,719 --> 02:57:09,840 what integrity are we maintaining, that's the fundamental 3619 02:57:09,840 --> 02:57:10,719 conversation. 3620 02:57:10,719 --> 02:57:20,719 Unfortunately, the timeline is so long on the front end. I 3621 02:57:20,719 --> 02:57:20,719 mean, if we had direction of a small area plan, this 3622 02:57:20,719 --> 02:57:20,719 discussion might be a little bit more guided from a 3623 02:57:20,719 --> 02:57:20,719 neighborhood standpoint. 3624 02:57:20,719 --> 02:57:21,719 Sure. 3625 02:57:21,719 --> 02:57:23,920 And Commissioner Reza, one of the things that when we look 3626 02:57:23,920 --> 02:57:26,920 at this property, we're talking about two parcels that are, 3627 02:57:26,920 --> 02:57:28,719 you know, they're in between. 3628 02:57:28,719 --> 02:57:30,719 They're not at specific hard corners. 3629 02:57:30,719 --> 02:57:37,010 They're at specific hard corners or slightly -- you know, 3630 02:57:37,010 --> 02:57:40,719 it's not even slightly removed. Then you can somehow vision 3631 02:57:40,719 --> 02:57:40,719 that there will be a domino effect or it would create the 3632 02:57:40,719 --> 02:57:40,719 impetus. 3633 02:57:40,719 --> 02:57:43,770 In this case, you're looking at two lots that are adjacent 3634 02:57:43,770 --> 02:57:45,719 or have abutting residential uses. 3635 02:57:45,719 --> 02:57:47,719 So what is the impetus? 3636 02:57:47,719 --> 02:57:53,139 Is the impetus to then have the entire area erode, which is 3637 02:57:53,139 --> 02:57:56,100 then not consistent with us saying we need to also maintain 3638 02:57:56,100 --> 02:57:59,120 the integrity of well-established older neighborhoods or 3639 02:57:59,120 --> 02:57:59,719 homes. 3640 02:57:59,719 --> 02:58:03,719 So it's a bit of a difficult -- it's a difficult decision. 3641 02:58:03,719 --> 02:58:06,770 Well, can you tell me how the southwest corner and 3642 02:58:06,770 --> 02:58:10,010 northwest corners are not that very impetus on the hard 3643 02:58:10,010 --> 02:58:12,719 corners to forward momentum into zoning? 3644 02:58:12,719 --> 02:58:15,770 If I'm not mistaken, when we look at the hard corners, I'm 3645 02:58:15,770 --> 02:58:18,719 actually referring to these and these right here. 3646 02:58:18,719 --> 02:58:20,719 As like an entrance into that street. 3647 02:58:20,719 --> 02:58:25,299 So it's like a micro gateway into something that could 3648 02:58:25,299 --> 02:58:30,469 potentially be eroding, but is there an opportunity then to 3649 02:58:30,469 --> 02:58:32,719 protect that erosion? 3650 02:58:32,719 --> 02:58:36,500 Or if we don't envision the erosion, then it goes back to 3651 02:58:36,500 --> 02:58:40,719 the whole component of should we evaluate block by block? 3652 02:58:40,719 --> 02:58:44,590 In terms of neighborhood integrity, does the staff view 3653 02:58:44,590 --> 02:58:48,479 owner, occupied versus rental, single family detached 3654 02:58:48,479 --> 02:58:49,719 differently? 3655 02:58:49,719 --> 02:58:51,719 No. 3656 02:58:51,719 --> 02:58:54,680 Owner occupied or rented property, it's still -- you've 3657 02:58:54,680 --> 02:58:56,719 still got that land use component. 3658 02:58:56,719 --> 02:58:59,719 Is it single family residential, for example? 3659 02:58:59,719 --> 02:59:03,299 One of the elements that we will be visiting is we 3660 02:59:03,299 --> 02:59:07,389 understand that there is a high rental market or rental 3661 02:59:07,389 --> 02:59:08,719 housing rate. 3662 02:59:08,719 --> 02:59:12,120 But then we have to understand how are we going to then 3663 02:59:12,120 --> 02:59:16,100 ensure that the infrastructure accommodates those types of 3664 02:59:16,100 --> 02:59:19,719 product as well as regular single family product. 3665 02:59:19,719 --> 02:59:21,719 Owner home, owner occupied. 3666 02:59:21,719 --> 02:59:22,719 Okay. 3667 02:59:22,719 --> 02:59:24,719 Thank you. 3668 02:59:24,719 --> 02:59:27,719 Thank you. 3669 02:59:27,719 --> 02:59:29,719 We have a motion before us. 3670 02:59:29,719 --> 02:59:36,719 Any other discussion for our call for a vote on the board? 3671 02:59:36,719 --> 02:59:39,879 I'm going to call on Commissioner Beck to restate your 3672 02:59:39,879 --> 02:59:41,719 motion and then take a vote. 3673 02:59:41,719 --> 02:59:44,719 I motion that we deny the zone change. 3674 02:59:44,719 --> 02:59:46,719 Okay. 3675 02:59:46,719 --> 02:59:49,719 And with that we have a first and a second for denial. 3676 02:59:49,719 --> 02:59:52,719 And we'll call for a vote on the board. 3677 02:59:52,719 --> 02:59:58,110 So a vote yes is to support the denial and a vote no would 3678 02:59:58,110 --> 03:00:00,719 be against the denial. 3679 03:00:00,719 --> 03:00:11,719 We'll call for a vote on the board. 3680 03:00:11,719 --> 03:00:22,719 The motion is going to fail four to two. 3681 03:00:22,719 --> 03:00:23,719 Commissioner Taylor. 3682 03:00:23,719 --> 03:00:27,110 I move we recommend approval to the City Council of the re 3683 03:00:27,110 --> 03:00:28,719 zone of this property. 3684 03:00:28,719 --> 03:00:32,719 Okay. 3685 03:00:32,719 --> 03:00:34,719 Commissioner Ellis. 3686 03:00:34,719 --> 03:00:35,719 Thank you, Chair. 3687 03:00:35,719 --> 03:00:36,719 I will second. 3688 03:00:36,719 --> 03:00:38,719 You beat me by half a hair. 3689 03:00:38,719 --> 03:00:42,719 We have a first and a second for approval. 3690 03:00:42,719 --> 03:00:46,719 Any discussion? 3691 03:00:46,719 --> 03:00:56,719 Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board. 3692 03:00:56,719 --> 03:01:03,719 The motion is going to carry four to two. 3693 03:01:03,719 --> 03:01:12,420 That will move us to our final agenda item tonight, future 3694 03:01:12,420 --> 03:01:18,719 agenda items. 3695 03:01:18,719 --> 03:01:23,719 Anybody have any? 3696 03:01:23,719 --> 03:01:25,719 I've got one. 3697 03:01:25,719 --> 03:01:29,719 I'd like -- forgive the wording. 3698 03:01:29,719 --> 03:01:33,719 I haven't spent a lot of time crafting this. 3699 03:01:33,719 --> 03:01:40,360 But I would like to explore in a work session soon the 3700 03:01:40,360 --> 03:01:47,010 possibility of adding to the cases that come before us the 3701 03:01:47,010 --> 03:01:53,719 financial aspects of projects being a couple fold. 3702 03:01:53,719 --> 03:01:58,719 I'm going to pull a controversial one that was before us. 3703 03:01:58,719 --> 03:02:01,719 A couple weeks ago, part seven, for example. 3704 03:02:01,719 --> 03:02:05,020 I think it would be helpful at least to me that when we 3705 03:02:05,020 --> 03:02:08,639 have projects like that coming before us that we have the 3706 03:02:08,639 --> 03:02:12,719 economic impact of what those projects bring to our city. 3707 03:02:12,719 --> 03:02:20,030 That that's added to all of the other things that are 3708 03:02:20,030 --> 03:02:24,719 covered in our presentation. 3709 03:02:24,719 --> 03:02:26,840 So when we're looking at properties that may have a tax 3710 03:02:26,840 --> 03:02:29,229 value of a few hundred thousand dollars versus 30-plus 3711 03:02:29,229 --> 03:02:31,719 million, what does that mean on a year by year, 10 years in 3712 03:02:31,719 --> 03:02:32,719 property taxes? 3713 03:02:32,719 --> 03:02:38,799 What does a 300-bed unit that's a thousand dollars per unit 3714 03:02:38,799 --> 03:02:44,579 in street impact fees, building permit fees, those types of 3715 03:02:44,579 --> 03:02:45,719 things. 3716 03:02:45,719 --> 03:02:50,430 And I would like to have that discussed in work session if 3717 03:02:50,430 --> 03:02:54,899 we can have those things, how those can be covered and 3718 03:02:54,899 --> 03:03:00,719 added as part of the presentations that are brought to us. 3719 03:03:00,719 --> 03:03:04,219 And how that economic impact may or may not play into some 3720 03:03:04,219 --> 03:03:07,719 of the decisions that come before this commission. 3721 03:03:07,719 --> 03:03:11,719 Are you talking about any application or just rezoning? 3722 03:03:11,719 --> 03:03:13,790 I know the one that you were talking about was a rezone 3723 03:03:13,790 --> 03:03:14,719 case, I believe. 3724 03:03:14,719 --> 03:03:16,719 Well, I don't know the correct. 3725 03:03:16,719 --> 03:03:20,750 Because we're not supposed to take into account the actual 3726 03:03:20,750 --> 03:03:22,719 project in a rezone case. 3727 03:03:22,719 --> 03:03:25,719 And that seems to be the one you're targeting. 3728 03:03:25,719 --> 03:03:28,850 Well, it was certainly taken into account in that one, and 3729 03:03:28,850 --> 03:03:30,719 so I'm just curious how we do it. 3730 03:03:30,719 --> 03:03:34,719 I'm not putting the framework around how staff does it. 3731 03:03:34,719 --> 03:03:39,719 I'm just using that as a test case. 3732 03:03:39,719 --> 03:03:43,719 I don't know the correct parameters that you use for it, 3733 03:03:43,719 --> 03:03:48,649 whether it's just in zoning or whether it's in site plans 3734 03:03:48,649 --> 03:03:50,719 or however it's done. 3735 03:03:50,719 --> 03:03:55,670 But I think at no time since I've served on this commission 3736 03:03:55,670 --> 03:03:59,719 do we ever come forth with what are the financial impacts 3737 03:03:59,719 --> 03:04:01,719 of the cases that come before us. 3738 03:04:01,719 --> 03:04:06,280 Whether we can talk about it in zoning or not, it's just 3739 03:04:06,280 --> 03:04:09,280 not a part of the decision making process or the backup 3740 03:04:09,280 --> 03:04:10,719 that comes before our commission. 3741 03:04:10,719 --> 03:04:14,200 And I don't know how that gets implemented or whether it 3742 03:04:14,200 --> 03:04:14,719 can. 3743 03:04:14,719 --> 03:04:17,329 And that's why I was wanting to talk about it in work 3744 03:04:17,329 --> 03:04:19,719 session, if that's a possibility for us. 3745 03:04:19,719 --> 03:04:25,350 And then if it is, under what parameters would that be done 3746 03:04:25,350 --> 03:04:25,719 ? 3747 03:04:25,719 --> 03:04:28,719 That was long winded, but anyway, sorry. 3748 03:04:28,719 --> 03:04:32,450 We'll have to discuss it and then get with you to clarify, 3749 03:04:32,450 --> 03:04:33,719 narrow it down. 3750 03:04:33,719 --> 03:04:35,719 Fair enough. Thank you. 3751 03:04:35,719 --> 03:04:36,719 Commissioner Rozelle. 3752 03:04:36,719 --> 03:04:37,719 Thank you, Chair. 3753 03:04:37,719 --> 03:04:40,719 I would love to know more about small area plans. 3754 03:04:40,719 --> 03:04:43,719 We have a couple of pending updates for small area plans. 3755 03:04:43,719 --> 03:04:46,549 We kind of had one impromptu tonight, and Commissioner 3756 03:04:46,549 --> 03:04:47,719 Ellis asked for one. 3757 03:04:47,719 --> 03:04:52,190 But I would like to know kind of a tally on where small 3758 03:04:52,190 --> 03:04:56,879 area plans exist and if there's designated definitions or 3759 03:04:56,879 --> 03:05:01,309 directions that those small area plans help us guide our 3760 03:05:01,309 --> 03:05:01,719 decision. 3761 03:05:01,719 --> 03:05:05,680 I know a while ago the Ector Street area was encouraged to 3762 03:05:05,680 --> 03:05:07,719 create a small area plan. 3763 03:05:07,719 --> 03:05:10,899 I just don't know the process, is that always citizen 3764 03:05:10,899 --> 03:05:14,209 initiated and where's the education piece that staff or 3765 03:05:14,209 --> 03:05:17,719 commission can provide citizens to small area plans? 3766 03:05:17,719 --> 03:05:21,129 But they seem extremely helpful to what the neighborhood 3767 03:05:21,129 --> 03:05:22,719 wants in a lot of cases. 3768 03:05:22,719 --> 03:05:25,020 And so there's a way we can promote that more or streamline 3769 03:05:25,020 --> 03:05:25,719 the process. 3770 03:05:25,719 --> 03:05:32,090 I would just like a breakdown as detailed as possible about 3771 03:05:32,090 --> 03:05:37,719 small area plans and where they stand in the city. 3772 03:05:37,719 --> 03:05:42,719 Anybody else? 3773 03:05:42,719 --> 03:05:46,690 Okay. With that, I'm going to close our PNC meeting tonight 3774 03:05:46,690 --> 03:05:47,719 at 845. 3775 03:05:47,719 --> 03:05:57,719 Thank you, everyone.