WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.350 Good afternoon and welcome to the City of Denton Planning 00:00:03.350 --> 00:00:04.259 and Zoning Commission 00:00:04.259 --> 00:00:11.240 work session for March the 8th 2017. This meeting has been 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:12.359 duly posted and we 00:00:12.359 --> 00:00:15.849 have a quorum present and I will call our meeting to order 00:00:15.849 --> 00:00:17.960 at 5 o 7 and at 00:00:17.960 --> 00:00:20.739 this time I will turn the meeting over to Manal for 00:00:20.739 --> 00:00:22.280 clarification of agenda 00:00:22.280 --> 00:00:28.079 items. Thank You Chairperson Strange. If it's the wish of 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:28.600 the Commission, 00:00:28.600 --> 00:00:32.380 Chairperson Strange would we like to go ahead and announce 00:00:32.380 --> 00:00:33.460 the order of the 00:00:33.460 --> 00:00:36.990 agenda items for just discussion tonight at the work 00:00:36.990 --> 00:00:39.079 session? Sure. And to move 00:00:39.079 --> 00:00:45.149 item 5A to the bottom to the last item on as part of the 00:00:45.149 --> 00:00:46.920 discussion so A would 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:54.710 move and be heard or discussed and presented after E, 5E. 00:00:54.710 --> 00:00:57.479 And with that we 00:00:57.479 --> 00:01:00.750 can dive into the first item of the agenda which are the 00:01:00.750 --> 00:01:01.920 plots. We have a 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:09.400 preliminary plot for the Mission Street offices and if 00:01:09.400 --> 00:01:11.000 there are any questions 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:14.579 of the Commission of staff from the Commission I'd be happy 00:01:14.579 --> 00:01:15.400 to call upon 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:18.980 Hayley to come and address that. If none we can dive into 00:01:18.980 --> 00:01:20.439 the next item which is 00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:27.329 a plant Eagle Farms, a final plant. Any questions related 00:01:27.329 --> 00:01:29.680 to that? Seeing none 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:33.099 we'll go ahead and move on to item for items for individual 00:01:33.099 --> 00:01:34.519 consideration. We do 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:37.680 have an ADP request and I'm going to ask Hayley to come up 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:38.920 and present that for 00:01:38.920 --> 00:01:42.920 us tonight or this afternoon rather. 00:01:50.599 --> 00:01:55.370 Good evening. So this is item ADP 1620 for the Mission 00:01:55.370 --> 00:01:59.840 Street offices and the 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:02.489 request is to consider approval of an alternative 00:02:02.489 --> 00:02:03.840 development plan for an 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:07.750 initial phase of a proposed office park development and the 00:02:07.750 --> 00:02:09.159 property is located 00:02:09.159 --> 00:02:09.159 at the yeah at the southeast corner of Fort Worth Drive and 00:02:09.159 --> 00:02:16.120 Mission Street. The 00:02:16.120 --> 00:02:19.689 overall project encompasses all three parcels there at that 00:02:19.689 --> 00:02:20.840 corner. The area 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:24.000 in yellow is the boundaries of this ADP request for tonight 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:25.360 though and yeah 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:27.949 there in red is the entire property that they're looking at 00:02:27.949 --> 00:02:28.560 which is the 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:31.449 preliminary plot that you all have on your agenda tonight 00:02:31.449 --> 00:02:33.159 as well. So the 00:02:33.159 --> 00:02:36.469 current zoning for this property is a Community Mixed Use 00:02:36.469 --> 00:02:37.599 General or CMG and 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:41.969 the future land use designation is also Community Mixed Use 00:02:41.969 --> 00:02:43.120 and you may remember 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:45.750 from some of our other discussions Community Mixed Use is 00:02:45.750 --> 00:02:46.360 intended to 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:50.449 promote a mix of residential commercial and institutional 00:02:50.449 --> 00:02:51.520 uses but commercial 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:55.949 would be the predominant use intended there. So here's the 00:02:55.949 --> 00:02:57.639 the site plan and 00:02:57.639 --> 00:02:59.939 there was a small change made to the site plan that was in 00:02:59.939 --> 00:03:00.599 your backup so I 00:03:00.599 --> 00:03:03.889 passed out a revised copy of that for you all before the 00:03:03.889 --> 00:03:06.159 meeting and the only 00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:09.400 change that was made well there were two actually they 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:10.919 added this label here on 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:13.120 these parking spaces north of the detention pond to 00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:14.039 indicate that those 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:17.729 will be part of a future development and then they made one 00:03:17.729 --> 00:03:19.159 change to this table 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:23.960 here to take out a provision that was no longer necessary. 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:25.639 So as far as staff 00:03:25.639 --> 00:03:29.520 considerations they had four requested deviations from the 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:30.800 subchapter 13 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:34.000 design standards. The first of those and one of the most 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:36.360 significant was for the 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:41.819 provision in 35 13 13 a for our non-residential standards 00:03:41.819 --> 00:03:42.319 that requires 00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:46.189 the buildings to be primarily oriented towards the street 00:03:46.189 --> 00:03:47.360 and the intent of 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:49.509 that as you can imagine is to make sure that our buildings 00:03:49.509 --> 00:03:50.319 present well to the 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:53.789 street and we have clearly designated entrances from the 00:03:53.789 --> 00:03:55.439 street for people 00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:59.120 seeking that use. So as you can see from their site plan 00:03:59.120 --> 00:04:00.240 here this is more of a 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:03.419 office park or campus type feel that they're going for here 00:04:03.419 --> 00:04:04.139 with all the 00:04:04.139 --> 00:04:07.050 buildings oriented inward towards the parking lot and what 00:04:07.050 --> 00:04:07.840 will be future 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:11.879 buildings as well. So this phase includes three buildings 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:13.280 here located on lots one 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:17.800 through three and as you can see lot this building on lot 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:18.639 one and this 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:21.519 building here would be the two that are primary we're 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:22.399 primarily concerned with 00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:24.490 that are oriented away from the street and would have a 00:04:24.490 --> 00:04:25.360 rear or side facing 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:30.740 the street. So as part of our considerations for that we 00:04:30.740 --> 00:04:31.600 requested 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:34.759 that the buildings still have a you know a very cohesive 00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:35.839 feeling to all of them 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:38.230 throughout the office park is one of our considerations and 00:04:38.230 --> 00:04:39.120 we wanted to see that 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:41.759 the buildings would have some architectural interest in 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:42.360 design from 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:45.209 all sides so that you still get a good feel for the 00:04:45.209 --> 00:04:46.439 building and a good 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:49.600 presentation to the street. So the top here is their front 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:50.959 elevation that would 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:53.110 be oriented inwards to the towards the middle of the 00:04:53.110 --> 00:04:55.040 property. We have the right 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:58.060 elevation there on the bottom and then here you can see 00:04:58.060 --> 00:04:59.399 what they've proposed 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:03.269 for the rear of the building. So you know it is a masonry 00:05:03.269 --> 00:05:04.560 materials that they're 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:07.029 proposing it does use windows and awnings to create some 00:05:07.029 --> 00:05:07.800 architectural 00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:13.180 interest from the street rather than just a solid wall. And 00:05:13.180 --> 00:05:14.720 they're also 00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:18.250 proposing the use of what appears to be five shrubs and a 00:05:18.250 --> 00:05:19.620 tree that would be in 00:05:19.620 --> 00:05:21.879 front of the building to kind of break up the spans from 00:05:21.879 --> 00:05:22.680 the street to the 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:27.319 building there. And as I'm sure you're familiar with Fort 00:05:27.319 --> 00:05:27.959 Worth Drive one of 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:31.209 staff's other considerations was that this orientation away 00:05:31.209 --> 00:05:32.079 from the street 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:35.069 may not be wholeheartedly you know breaking the intent of 00:05:35.069 --> 00:05:35.879 the code per se 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:39.269 because this isn't a pedestrian oriented area predominantly 00:05:39.269 --> 00:05:40.160 on Fort Worth Drive. 00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:42.370 You know we have sidewalks but there aren't a whole lot of 00:05:42.370 --> 00:05:43.040 customers for 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:45.839 these potential uses probably that would be walking there. 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:46.879 So having that 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:50.040 orientation towards the inside makes sense for the veh 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:50.920 icular traffic that 00:05:50.920 --> 00:05:55.720 would be the predominant users here. And one of their other 00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:57.480 requests is related 00:05:57.480 --> 00:06:01.310 to parking. So the DDC requirement for general office use 00:06:01.310 --> 00:06:03.160 is one space per 450 00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:05.939 square feet of building. So for the size of buildings they 00:06:05.939 --> 00:06:06.759 're proposing at this 00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:11.189 time 27 spaces would be required. And subchapter 13 goes on 00:06:11.189 --> 00:06:12.360 to state that any 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:15.620 parking in excess of that number should be constructed of 00:06:15.620 --> 00:06:18.000 pervious material. What 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:21.519 they're proposing is actually 39 spaces total so they're 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:23.079 over that required 00:06:23.079 --> 00:06:27.019 number by 12 for this phase. And in lieu of using permeable 00:06:27.019 --> 00:06:28.120 paving of some sort 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:31.860 they've proposed a detention pond located here in red. And 00:06:31.860 --> 00:06:33.000 that pond would 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:36.379 be designed to I swim standards and that would mean that it 00:06:36.379 --> 00:06:37.439 would be required to 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:40.829 hold the water quality volume of this parking lot for up to 00:06:40.829 --> 00:06:41.759 24 hours. 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:45.569 Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. Haley is that an open 00:06:45.569 --> 00:06:48.160 pond or is it underground outside? 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:50.920 My understanding is it would be an open pond. I spoke with 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:51.839 Deborah Viera about it 00:06:51.839 --> 00:06:54.240 this morning and she said at this point she would be 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:55.680 looking for their final pond 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:58.220 designs at the final platting stage so they're not quite 00:06:58.220 --> 00:06:59.040 there to the full 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:01.389 design yet but I believe it would be an open pond. The fact 00:07:01.389 --> 00:07:02.399 that that's gonna back 00:07:02.399 --> 00:07:06.120 up to a residential area there's no concern about odors or 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:07.000 anything like 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:10.160 that or flooding. There actually are some buffering 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:11.579 requirements and we'll get to 00:07:11.579 --> 00:07:18.040 those here in a minute. So that's their proposed mitigation 00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:18.639 for the excess 00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:22.129 parking is the use of this detention pond to treat the 00:07:22.129 --> 00:07:24.680 water quality. And then 00:07:24.680 --> 00:07:27.839 because of the size of this overall full development once 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:29.040 they get all of those 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:32.920 future phases built out exceeds 40,000 square feet that 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:33.639 does trigger some 00:07:33.639 --> 00:07:36.480 large-scale development standards in the DDC and those 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:37.759 requirements are meant to 00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:40.480 help mitigate potential nuisances from large-scale 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:41.839 developments in terms of 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:45.279 visuals and especially their compatibility when they adjoin 00:07:45.279 --> 00:07:45.800 single 00:07:45.800 --> 00:07:49.439 family residential uses. One of those provisions is for an 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:51.160 8-foot masonry wall 00:07:51.160 --> 00:07:55.019 constructed of brick, stone, split block or concrete that 00:07:55.019 --> 00:07:56.439 has to run the entire 00:07:56.439 --> 00:07:59.019 common boundary line between the large-scale development 00:07:59.019 --> 00:07:59.639 and the single 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:02.810 family use and there's also a provision that mechanical 00:08:02.810 --> 00:08:04.160 equipment located within 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:07.100 these developments cannot be within a hundred feet of 00:08:07.100 --> 00:08:08.720 residential properties. 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:14.050 So if we go back to our site plan here to address the 00:08:14.050 --> 00:08:17.439 requirement for this 8-foot 00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:21.029 wall they are proposing to construct a type C buffer that 00:08:21.029 --> 00:08:22.240 is slightly enhanced. 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:25.100 The type C buffer would be required anyway between a 00:08:25.100 --> 00:08:26.319 commercial and single 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:29.480 family use and there is a single family residence on the 00:08:29.480 --> 00:08:30.680 property to the south 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:34.679 of them and so the type C buffer is a requirement already. 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:35.559 They're proposing to 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:38.440 provide some additional plantings, trees and shrubs to 00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:39.600 enhance that in lieu of 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:44.519 providing the buffer plus a masonry wall. And in terms of 00:08:44.519 --> 00:08:45.919 mechanical equipment 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:51.129 marked in red there, there are proposed air conditioners 00:08:51.129 --> 00:08:51.879 and other mechanical 00:08:51.879 --> 00:08:53.899 equipment for these buildings that would be located 00:08:53.899 --> 00:08:55.679 approximately 30 feet from 00:08:55.679 --> 00:08:59.539 that property line with the single family use and so as 00:08:59.539 --> 00:09:01.120 their mitigation for 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:04.559 those being closer than required by code they're proposing 00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:05.200 architecturally 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:08.190 compatible screening as well as plantings. They didn't 00:09:08.190 --> 00:09:08.840 specify at this 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:11.860 time what those plantings would be but it was part of their 00:09:11.860 --> 00:09:13.000 description there. 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:16.159 Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. So there's nothing no 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:17.279 easier than an ICU 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:19.940 unit in that area? I don't believe so. I believe this is 00:09:19.940 --> 00:09:23.120 intended just for offices. 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:35.600 Go ahead. So the parking requirements based on 12,000 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:37.080 square feet but you're 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:42.570 we're going over conditions for a 40,000 large scale. Why 00:09:42.570 --> 00:09:43.600 are we not requiring 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:47.480 parking for 40,000 or why are we requiring large scale for 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:48.519 12,000 square 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:51.259 feet? It's because when they originally proposed this it 00:09:51.259 --> 00:09:52.320 was brought in that 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:55.330 their intent is for over 40,000 square feet of building but 00:09:55.330 --> 00:09:56.159 they want to do that 00:09:56.159 --> 00:09:57.940 in phases so we wanted to make sure that all those 00:09:57.940 --> 00:09:59.039 requirements were addressed 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:03.549 as each phase comes in. If I can chime in Commissioner Riz 00:10:03.549 --> 00:10:04.799 al, one of the 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:07.399 elements associated with this is that it is going to be an 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:08.120 office campus 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:10.899 development or an office style development and as a result 00:10:10.899 --> 00:10:11.240 we're 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:15.409 looking at it comprehensively and that is why even though 00:10:15.409 --> 00:10:16.840 it might come in as a 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:19.519 phased program we want to ultimately review this as a 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:21.059 comprehensive. So parking 00:10:21.059 --> 00:10:25.529 will be done on a phase by phase requirement? Okay thank 00:10:25.529 --> 00:10:28.879 you. There are 00:10:28.879 --> 00:10:33.360 criteria for approval of an ADP outlined in subchapter 13. 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:34.840 Those were outlined in 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:38.000 your backup and overall staff felt that this meets those 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:39.320 criteria. It seems a 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:43.179 logical location at this hard corner for an office park or 00:10:43.179 --> 00:10:44.399 campus with multiple 00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:47.399 offices like this that would be condensed into one area as 00:10:47.399 --> 00:10:48.039 is keeping 00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:51.279 with the future land use plan and that community mixed use 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:53.879 desire for this area. 00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:57.450 So staff is recommending approval of this with a few 00:10:57.450 --> 00:10:59.279 conditions. The first of 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:02.100 those is that the proposed development would substantially 00:11:02.100 --> 00:11:02.960 conform to the site 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:06.120 plan that was provided this evening. The second is that the 00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:07.080 development would 00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:09.860 also substantially comply with the landscape plan with a 00:11:09.860 --> 00:11:10.360 couple of 00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:13.519 modifications that we think would enhance the development. 00:11:13.519 --> 00:11:14.159 The first of 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:17.100 those being that in addition to those five shrubs that they 00:11:17.100 --> 00:11:17.679 show on the 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:20.110 landscape plan in front of the building we would like to 00:11:20.110 --> 00:11:21.279 see that large spans. 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:26.710 Go to the site plan. Yeah so these five shrubs we'd like to 00:11:26.710 --> 00:11:29.759 see this large area broken up with some more 00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:32.700 landscaping so we're proposing about a five foot wide area 00:11:32.700 --> 00:11:33.639 that would contain 00:11:33.639 --> 00:11:37.059 tall grasses as well as the proposed shrubs and kind of an 00:11:37.059 --> 00:11:38.240 undulating pattern 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:41.399 to provide some some interest and a little bit of softening 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:42.759 between just the 00:11:42.759 --> 00:11:45.759 street and the building. Since the orientation is a way we 00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:46.159 want to make 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:48.379 sure that that does present as well from the street as 00:11:48.379 --> 00:11:49.480 possible and that would 00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:53.950 include in our mind breaking up this large area of just 00:11:53.950 --> 00:11:55.480 grass in this case. 00:11:55.480 --> 00:12:00.779 And our other requirement on the landscape plan is that we 00:12:00.779 --> 00:12:01.720 feel that 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:04.879 simply enhancing the buffer as they've proposed doesn't 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:06.000 necessarily meet the 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.870 intent of that large-scale development requirement for a m 00:12:08.870 --> 00:12:09.960 asonry wall because 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:13.320 as we all know vegetation does tend to die back at certain 00:12:13.320 --> 00:12:14.600 times of year and so 00:12:14.600 --> 00:12:17.840 seasonally there would be the chance for this development 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:19.039 to be visible and the 00:12:19.039 --> 00:12:21.799 noises and odors and things like that from it to carry to 00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:22.919 that residence next 00:12:22.919 --> 00:12:25.440 door. We feel that adding back in the requirement for that 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:26.240 masonry wall would 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:28.799 help address that as it would provide year-round screening 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:29.639 between these two 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:34.720 and help enhance the buffering between the two uses. 00:12:34.720 --> 00:12:37.840 Commissioner Beck. Thank you 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:41.720 Chair. Did John drop when the requirement for an eight foot 00:12:41.720 --> 00:12:42.960 wall in that location 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:45.740 and so why are we going from eight foot to six foot? We 00:12:45.740 --> 00:12:47.480 felt that six foot would be 00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:50.470 appropriate enough in this case. It's not necessarily a 00:12:50.470 --> 00:12:51.679 large-scale development in 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:54.440 terms of a large warehouse or like a big box store or 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:56.039 something like that. It is 00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:58.639 smaller buildings but overall in scale wouldn't be as 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:00.919 imposing. So we reduced 00:13:00.919 --> 00:13:06.529 that to a six foot requirement just because we felt it 00:13:06.529 --> 00:13:07.639 would be appropriate 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:13.639 in this case between the two uses. I'm having trouble with 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:14.960 names. Commissioner Taylor. 00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:19.950 Thank you Chair. So I'm just trying to understand the the 00:13:19.950 --> 00:13:21.679 phasing I guess in 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:28.179 this. The lot four it appears that the retention the 00:13:28.179 --> 00:13:30.320 detention pond is the only 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:33.559 half of it's going to be built? They are intending a larger 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:34.840 detention pond as the 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:37.309 future phases come in I believe. At this point they're 00:13:37.309 --> 00:13:38.559 proposing just to construct 00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:41.440 a pond that would treat the water quality volume from this 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:42.240 portion of the 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:46.009 site. Okay and then the rest of the development it's still 00:13:46.009 --> 00:13:46.379 going to be 00:13:46.379 --> 00:13:51.350 facing away from the street. It has 75 more parking spaces 00:13:51.350 --> 00:13:52.919 for 26,000 more 00:13:52.919 --> 00:13:57.210 square feet so it's going to still need additional ADPs as 00:13:57.210 --> 00:13:59.840 it builds out. Yes. 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:04.289 And so okay and the decision not to just do one ADP now for 00:14:04.289 --> 00:14:07.240 the whole thing? So at 00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:12.919 this, sorry Haley. At this point the intent is we know that 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:13.240 there is a 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:17.840 potential or a possibility that this may be developed as a 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:19.559 office campus style 00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:21.929 development and that's why we were looking at it 00:14:21.929 --> 00:14:23.480 comprehensively. Our first 00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:25.779 thought was let's bring this all together but there was 00:14:25.779 --> 00:14:26.519 discussion with 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:28.990 the applicant who said well I'm not you know they might not 00:14:28.990 --> 00:14:29.960 be a hundred percent 00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:32.440 sure this is potentially their build out. They might change 00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:33.200 there might be some 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:35.429 changes in the future as it relates but there's certain on 00:14:35.429 --> 00:14:36.639 these buildings and 00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:40.559 therefore the goal is to make sure that if that doesn't 00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:42.519 happen then we're at 00:14:42.519 --> 00:14:45.679 least accommodating with the masonry wall requirement and 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:46.519 what have you that 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:49.480 we look at it in this cohesive manner but also have the 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:50.840 ability to expand that 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:56.090 focus. And the speaking of the masonry wall would that 00:14:56.090 --> 00:14:57.720 follow the entire lot 00:14:57.720 --> 00:15:02.480 line? Yes. Yes for now it would follow the southern 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:04.440 property line for the portion that 00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:09.190 they're developing at this point. And then if it it would 00:15:09.190 --> 00:15:11.039 be likely in the 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:14.409 next phase that it would also continue along the east side 00:15:14.409 --> 00:15:16.000 as well? Yes there 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:22.360 are also single-family residences to the east. Okay thank 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:23.600 you. Commissioner Ellis. 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:27.679 Thank you chair. Haley I know you and I briefed this a 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:28.600 little bit but I guess to 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:32.429 get it on record so the site plan and the prelim plan don't 00:15:32.429 --> 00:15:33.720 go together with 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:36.500 with the labeling of lot four right so that I mean that's 00:15:36.500 --> 00:15:37.559 not really lot four 00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:40.919 according to the prelim plan right that's that's a common 00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:42.519 area. Yes there is 00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:45.679 the discrepancy in the labeling on the preliminary plat 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:46.759 this area called lot 00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:49.639 four on the site plan is addressed as common area lot one 00:15:49.639 --> 00:15:51.960 so that label. So the 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:55.820 prelim plat is correct? Yes. This is wrong? Yeah that would 00:15:55.820 --> 00:15:56.799 be a common area lot 00:15:56.799 --> 00:16:02.159 with the detention pond on it. Right okay okay thanks. 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:08.480 Commissioner Hatchbeth. I may 00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:12.720 be missing it. I'm assuming they're gonna have some signage 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:17.080 on forward drop. I'm 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:19.480 not sure what their intent for signage for the entire 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:20.440 campuses I know the 00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:23.799 building elevation showed signage on building one which is 00:16:23.799 --> 00:16:24.320 the only 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:27.950 elevation they've completed at this point. So as far as we 00:16:27.950 --> 00:16:28.879 know all the 00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:32.039 signage will be on the buildings itself nothing in the. I'm 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:33.000 not aware of what 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:34.779 their intent is for signage I think the applicant will be 00:16:34.779 --> 00:16:35.679 here tonight though if 00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:39.059 you would like to address that question with him. Okay and 00:16:39.059 --> 00:16:40.480 then if I may. Thank 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:45.559 you. Sure. Same question lot four are there any 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:47.639 calculations based on how they 00:16:47.639 --> 00:16:54.080 drew their lines so for example are the parking spaces 00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:56.200 calculated or the is 00:16:56.200 --> 00:17:00.009 there any calculations based on they only drew this line in 00:17:00.009 --> 00:17:00.919 the middle of 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:05.349 this area? They did present preliminary calculations that 00:17:05.349 --> 00:17:06.480 Deborah Vieira 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:09.640 reviewed and she couldn't be here tonight so I'm not sure 00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:10.319 that I could 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:13.480 speak to how she calculated that water quality volume in 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:14.559 the size of the pond 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:17.890 but I know they did present those and Deborah reviewed them 00:17:17.890 --> 00:17:19.759 as well and so I 00:17:19.759 --> 00:17:23.250 believe this lot line or this line that they've drawn here 00:17:23.250 --> 00:17:24.400 is surrounding the 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:27.759 area that it would be required to treat that water quality 00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:30.039 volume. Right but my 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:35.529 question is are they just drawing a line arbitrarily to get 00:17:35.529 --> 00:17:36.599 a number that's 00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:42.950 favorable does that make sense? Maybe they can do that by 00:17:42.950 --> 00:17:43.920 right I just want to 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:49.359 know is that. I'll try and tackle that question. Appreciate 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:50.119 it. I don't believe it's 00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:52.339 an arbitrary line I think if you look at what they're 00:17:52.339 --> 00:17:53.599 proposing they've got their 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:57.150 prelims and in terms of their CEPs and what have you we 00:17:57.150 --> 00:17:58.319 should they should 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.019 have calculated what they're trying to show you is the 00:18:01.019 --> 00:18:02.480 extent of that building 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:06.930 footprint itself lot four could potentially accommodate as 00:18:06.930 --> 00:18:07.559 a drain 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:10.559 adhesion additional water or what have you as the rest of 00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:11.599 the phase builds out 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:14.569 it could potentially accommodate that and be in keeping 00:18:14.569 --> 00:18:15.799 with our environmental 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:19.400 teams concept of being you know as the future ADP comes 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:21.000 forward so when we look 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:24.609 at that line let's not look at it as a solid lot line dem 00:18:24.609 --> 00:18:26.119 arcation but mainly 00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:29.549 the intent or the area that is being encompassed under this 00:18:29.549 --> 00:18:30.519 ADP at this point 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:33.680 in terms of compromising any engineering requirements 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:34.720 obviously that would not 00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:37.910 occur because prior to issues of building permit all the 00:18:37.910 --> 00:18:38.839 plans would have 00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:41.420 to be reviewed for all the engineering infrastructure and 00:18:41.420 --> 00:18:42.200 infrastructure 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:48.269 requirements. Thank you. Yeah and the specific pond design 00:18:48.269 --> 00:18:48.799 requirements I was 00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:51.799 told Deborah reviews those with the final plat. Correct. 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:53.119 Commissioner Sullivan. 00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:57.200 Thank you sir. Is the retention pond being built to 00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:59.200 accommodate the future use 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:04.250 along that side or just what's being built currently? This 00:19:04.250 --> 00:19:05.720 time it is just for 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:07.799 this current phase with these three buildings and their 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:08.599 associated parking. 00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:14.750 So where they have currently future design ideas may end up 00:19:14.750 --> 00:19:16.240 being another 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:20.839 retention pond or how is that going to be handled at that? 00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:22.000 From what I've 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:25.829 discussed with the applicant the boundaries shown here are 00:19:25.829 --> 00:19:26.319 a rough 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:28.480 estimate of the area that they would use for detention for 00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:29.960 the entire development. 00:19:29.960 --> 00:19:33.880 The pond would be expanded with those future phases. So the 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:35.440 entire lot for maybe 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:40.750 a retention pond? The entire common area lot. Gotcha. Okay. 00:19:40.750 --> 00:19:40.799 Thank you. 00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:51.099 So staff's other recommendations we propose that all the 00:19:51.099 --> 00:19:52.720 screening walls for 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:54.799 the mechanical equipment be constructed of masonry 00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:56.079 materials that are compatible 00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:59.240 with the building facade and in addition we propose they 00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:00.039 plant a mixture of 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:03.309 shrubs and tall grasses around the outsides of those to you 00:20:03.309 --> 00:20:04.279 know accentuate 00:20:04.279 --> 00:20:08.750 the walls and enhance the campus feel. We also propose that 00:20:08.750 --> 00:20:09.960 building one as 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:12.480 identified on the site plan should substantially comply 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:13.319 with the attached 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:16.000 elevations at this time those are the only elevations they 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:16.700 've developed so 00:20:16.700 --> 00:20:19.859 we're also proposing that buildings two and three be 00:20:19.859 --> 00:20:21.400 constructed of masonry 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:24.589 materials and be similar in design and concept to that 00:20:24.589 --> 00:20:25.799 elevation for building 00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:29.880 one. Just to help create a cohesive sense across the office 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:31.000 park as it develops. 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:34.960 And we also suggest that any future phases be uniform 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:36.359 relating to frontage 00:20:36.359 --> 00:20:38.880 setbacks building materials and landscaping along Fort 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:39.559 Worth Drive to 00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:44.559 help create a cohesive feel for the campus from the street. 00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:46.559 And that's all I 00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:50.000 have so I can answer any other questions at this time. 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:51.880 Commissioner Beck. Thank you 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:55.400 Chair. Just real quick stuff I think you mentioned that 00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:56.759 though this is not a 00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.359 typical pedestrian area there were sidewalks that run along 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:02.000 Fort Worth. Yes so they are 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:06.220 proposing I believe they're required to build the sidewalk 00:21:06.220 --> 00:21:07.079 along Fort Worth 00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:10.369 Drive and they're proposing sidewalk connectivity in front 00:21:10.369 --> 00:21:11.319 of the buildings 00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:13.660 that would go out to that sidewalk and they've also 00:21:13.660 --> 00:21:14.920 proposed some bike racks 00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:18.079 here to allow for alternative means of access for employees 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:19.240 and users. So the 00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:21.819 sidewalk they're building will connect with existing 00:21:21.819 --> 00:21:23.519 sidewalk or in anticipation 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:27.250 of future sidewalk? Earl are you familiar with the sidewalk 00:21:27.250 --> 00:21:28.000 s that are developed 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:31.809 along Fort Worth Drive currently? Is it connecting to an 00:21:31.809 --> 00:21:33.519 existing sidewalk? No. 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:37.079 There is no sidewalk. 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:39.079 Yeah. 00:21:39.079 --> 00:21:47.839 Are those pervious or impervious? Well I know as part of 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:48.799 the Tech Stop project 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:52.200 of the widening of US 377 they are constructing sidewalk on 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:53.000 both sides so 00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:57.829 this I believe this five foot sidewalk. That was my next 00:21:57.829 --> 00:21:58.920 question. That's being 00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:02.119 built by the development and will connect to them. Okay so 00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:03.019 they are going to be 00:22:03.019 --> 00:22:06.930 widening Fort Worth Drive? To six lanes. Any dates on that 00:22:06.930 --> 00:22:08.680 yet? Just uh they're 00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:12.680 actually relocating utilities as we speak and the pavement 00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:14.079 portion should 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:20.150 occur sometime hopefully summer of this year. Cool. Thank 00:22:20.150 --> 00:22:20.720 you. 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:33.079 Now that'd be different in the future. Moving on to our 00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:34.799 next item. 00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:41.839 It's going to be public hearing. It's a final replant. Okay 00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:41.839 . 00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:46.359 Hayley might want to stay back if there any questions 00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:48.680 regarding item 5B which 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:54.039 is the final replant for the Roberts addition. If there any 00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:54.680 questions we can 00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:57.119 talk about those. 00:23:04.880 --> 00:23:08.799 Hayley would you pull that up please? 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:16.680 There yes it is. Yes it's a splitting of one lot into two 00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:17.359 lots for commercial 00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:22.359 development at the corner of Ector and Emory. Okay so that 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:24.119 was. Commissioner 00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:27.279 Tyler. Thank you chair. Yeah my question was I thought this 00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:28.039 was zone commercial 00:23:28.039 --> 00:23:30.119 and it looked almost like these would be residential lots 00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:31.079 like a third acre lot 00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:34.450 with a you know 80 foot road front edge or something so is 00:23:34.450 --> 00:23:35.359 the plan is for 00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:37.599 commercial development? Yes yeah these are commercial 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:38.960 commercial lots. Thank 00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:45.029 you. Commissioner Sullivan. Last year we talked about Aldi 00:23:45.029 --> 00:23:46.400 going in to the north 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:50.369 of this on the same in the same area there was a lot of 00:23:50.369 --> 00:23:52.640 concern about traffic 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:56.700 on Emory and all the things it was going to do to interrupt 00:23:56.700 --> 00:23:57.680 the the neighborhood 00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:01.680 flow and so forth and I think Aldi did a good job of 00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:04.599 providing screenage on the 00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:09.430 south part of their lot in order to take care of that issue 00:24:09.430 --> 00:24:10.640 and with the you know 00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:15.170 the truck offloading ramp and so forth. What's the plan for 00:24:15.170 --> 00:24:16.400 any commercial 00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:20.829 building going in here to provide the same screening that 00:24:20.829 --> 00:24:22.079 the people were 00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:25.940 concerned about with Aldi's before that now is going to be 00:24:25.940 --> 00:24:26.640 transferred to the 00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:30.809 south to this new area? Yeah so any development would be 00:24:30.809 --> 00:24:31.440 required to meet 00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:35.109 the DDC requirements for screening landscaping street trees 00:24:35.109 --> 00:24:35.880 all of those 00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:40.849 things. I'm not sure about the second lot the lot at the 00:24:40.849 --> 00:24:42.200 hard corner there I 00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:45.089 believe is intended for a medical office they've submitted 00:24:45.089 --> 00:24:46.119 a site plan request 00:24:46.119 --> 00:24:58.440 for that lot. Okay thank you. More questions? Moves to C. 00:24:58.440 --> 00:24:59.759 Moves us to item C and 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:10.670 Haley's gonna present this one as well. Andy. I believe C 00:25:10.670 --> 00:25:14.279 is the zoning case. Yes. 00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:17.289 These two go together as owning in an SUP for the same 00:25:17.289 --> 00:25:19.240 property. So this case 00:25:19.240 --> 00:25:24.130 as E 1627 is for the standard and Hudson at Med Park. The 00:25:24.130 --> 00:25:25.799 request is to hold a 00:25:25.799 --> 00:25:28.309 public hearing and consider a request for a rezoning of 00:25:28.309 --> 00:25:29.759 approximately 20 acres 00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:32.940 from regional center commercial downtown district to 00:25:32.940 --> 00:25:34.480 regional center residential 00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:41.509 2. The property is the western portion of a larger property 00:25:41.509 --> 00:25:42.160 that's located at 00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:46.039 2100 South May Hill. The property is outlined in yellow and 00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:46.599 it sits at the 00:25:46.599 --> 00:25:50.960 end of Hudson Wood Drive here and Somerset Road to the 00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:52.799 south. The Providence 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:56.240 Place Apartments is this development that is to the east 00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:57.279 and south of the 00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:01.150 property and then the Med Park station is actually here 00:26:01.150 --> 00:26:04.559 just south of that. So 00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:07.480 the current zoning for the property as I mentioned is RCCD 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:08.839 their proposal is for 00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:14.299 RCR 2. This property is located within a regional mixed-use 00:26:14.299 --> 00:26:15.119 future land use 00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:18.599 designation. This designation is applied to areas that are 00:26:18.599 --> 00:26:20.839 primarily along the I 00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:24.059 35 interchanges primary arterials. They're intended to be 00:26:24.059 --> 00:26:24.599 regional 00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:27.359 destinations for commercial and mixed-use development which 00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:27.839 includes 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:32.200 moderate to high density residential. Just to give you an 00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:33.599 idea of where this 00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:36.400 sits that reach that particular regional mixed-use center 00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:37.440 encompasses a large 00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.250 area along I 35 and this property is located just here 00:26:41.250 --> 00:26:42.079 where the yellow star 00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:47.250 is kind of on the outer fringe of that designation. So 00:26:47.250 --> 00:26:49.240 staff's considerations 00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:53.170 for this one of those was that rezoning to RCR 2 while 00:26:53.170 --> 00:26:54.759 there isn't any other 00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:58.799 instance of RCR 2 immediately adjoining this is consistent 00:26:58.799 --> 00:26:59.759 with the zoning 00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:03.200 pattern in this area because all of these districts RCR 2, 00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:04.920 RCR 1, RCCD all of 00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:08.089 those are within the same regional mixed-use center family 00:27:08.089 --> 00:27:08.680 of zoning 00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:11.839 districts that all fit within that regional mixed-use 00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:12.880 future land use 00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:16.240 designation. This request is actually for a down zoning to 00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:17.240 a less intensive 00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:21.599 zoning district and staff felt that the RCR 2 designation 00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:22.880 on this property could 00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:27.019 provide us kind of a transition and scale of development 00:27:27.019 --> 00:27:28.319 and use between the 00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:31.480 surrounding RCR 1 and what is likely to be more intensive 00:27:31.480 --> 00:27:32.319 commercialized 00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:35.609 development here along May Hill Road within the RCCD 00:27:35.609 --> 00:27:37.960 district. And just to 00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:40.200 give you an idea of what I'm talking about here this entire 00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:40.960 area that kind of 00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:43.559 matches with that future land use designation that regional 00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:44.079 mixed-use 00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:46.779 center you can see has this family of zoning districts 00:27:46.779 --> 00:27:48.160 applied to it RCR 1, 00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:55.920 RCR 2, and then RCCD in and RCCD. And that RCR 2 is 00:27:55.920 --> 00:27:56.720 actually not a very 00:27:56.720 --> 00:27:59.390 common zoning designation in this area you can see there's 00:27:59.390 --> 00:28:00.880 only a few instances 00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:08.220 of that throughout here. The RCCD district requires that 00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:09.160 multifamily as a 00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:13.150 use be part of a mixed-use development along any collector 00:28:13.150 --> 00:28:14.440 or arterial and so 00:28:14.440 --> 00:28:17.640 in this case Hudson Wood Drive if I remembering correctly 00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:18.359 is actually 00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:21.690 classified as a collector street or will be once it's 00:28:21.690 --> 00:28:23.160 extended across so there 00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:26.130 would be a requirement for mixed-use and commercial 00:28:26.130 --> 00:28:27.599 development specifically on 00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:30.259 the ground floor of any multifamily development under the 00:28:30.259 --> 00:28:31.240 existing zoning. 00:28:31.240 --> 00:28:35.450 Within RCR 2 multifamily can be developed without that 00:28:35.450 --> 00:28:36.319 mixed-use 00:28:36.319 --> 00:28:39.099 component if it is approved with an SUP which is the next 00:28:39.099 --> 00:28:40.079 case that we'll go 00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:44.599 over. And staff felt that given the substantial offset from 00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:45.680 this property 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:48.259 that they're looking at from May Hill Road here this 00:28:48.259 --> 00:28:50.240 primary arterial commercial 00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:54.119 uses may not be supported necessarily this far off of that 00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:54.839 primary road 00:28:54.839 --> 00:28:57.799 because this is largely a neighborhood development that's 00:28:57.799 --> 00:28:58.640 occurred back here on 00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:04.200 Hudson Wood so far. Just to give you a comparison this is 00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:05.599 pretty substantial 00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:07.740 down zoning in terms of the scale of what can be developed 00:29:07.740 --> 00:29:08.519 on the property if 00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:11.400 this rezoning is approved so the density would be reduced 00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:12.720 from 100 dwelling units 00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:17.160 per acre to 40. The maximum lot coverage would drop from 90 00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:17.920 % to 75% 00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:22.380 thereby increasing the landscaping to 25% and the building 00:29:22.380 --> 00:29:23.200 height as well would 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:27.799 drop by half from 100 feet to 50 feet. 00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:32.660 Notifications were sent and one neutral response was 00:29:32.660 --> 00:29:34.359 received and I passed that 00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:38.279 out before the meeting here and staff is recommending 00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:39.720 approval of this request 00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:42.440 because of its compatibility with the surrounding land use 00:29:42.440 --> 00:29:43.359 and zoning pattern 00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:46.539 and its compatibility with the goals of the DIN plan 2030 00:29:46.539 --> 00:29:47.519 and I can answer any 00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:52.029 questions. Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. One quick 00:29:52.029 --> 00:29:54.079 one. The extension of Hudson 00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:58.200 Wood Drive that wouldn't actually go to May Hill we have to 00:29:58.200 --> 00:29:59.359 rely upon the city 00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:02.519 because they own another property is that right? I know 00:30:02.519 --> 00:30:03.720 they're intending to 00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:06.440 extend it through their property but I will let Earl answer 00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:07.319 the question about 00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:11.900 its extension. All the way to May Hill? Yeah let me pull an 00:30:11.900 --> 00:30:14.119 aerial for you there. 00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:18.599 That's perfect. This is Hudson Wood I believe. Yes as part 00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:20.319 of the development Hudson 00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:27.190 Wood will extend from through their property off-site and 00:30:27.190 --> 00:30:27.920 tie into 00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:32.200 May Hill both the existing May Hill and ultimately the 00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:33.680 proposed new May Hill 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:36.839 ones that's widened. So it will carry all the way through? 00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:38.720 Yes it has to by fire code 00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:41.569 requirements because the fire code requires two points of 00:30:41.569 --> 00:30:42.400 access to serve 00:30:42.400 --> 00:30:45.069 this development and right now there's only one and that's 00:30:45.069 --> 00:30:45.960 off of Quail Creek 00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:50.440 and Brinker. Okay while you're up there the white lines 00:30:50.440 --> 00:30:52.160 over towards May Hill 00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:56.450 that look like this one yes what is that? That was the old 00:30:56.450 --> 00:30:57.759 alignment of the 00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:00.789 widening of May Hill Road however what happened was the 00:31:00.789 --> 00:31:02.119 city could not acquire 00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:08.190 the right away south of this curve and so what we had to do 00:31:08.190 --> 00:31:09.920 is realign May Hill 00:31:09.920 --> 00:31:13.779 back to its original alignment and acquire right away off 00:31:13.779 --> 00:31:17.519 of that. Okay thank you. 00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:40.579 Okay so the second part of this request is for the SUP for 00:31:40.579 --> 00:31:43.640 that multifamily use. 00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:46.349 So as I mentioned the request is to hold this public 00:31:46.349 --> 00:31:47.640 hearing and consider a 00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:50.400 request for a specific use permit to allow multifamily 00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:51.480 development on that 00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:55.339 approximate 20 acres of property. We're familiar with the 00:31:55.339 --> 00:31:56.640 property location now 00:31:56.640 --> 00:31:59.799 just off of May Hill Road at the end of Hudson Wood and Som 00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:01.559 erset and as I 00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:04.359 mentioned current zoning is our CCD which would require 00:32:04.359 --> 00:32:05.000 that mixed use 00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:08.299 component. Their proposal as we just saw was to take this 00:32:08.299 --> 00:32:09.079 to an RCR 2 00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:12.759 designation. As I mentioned before it is within this 00:32:12.759 --> 00:32:14.400 regional mixed use future 00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:17.710 land use designation which encourages moderate to high 00:32:17.710 --> 00:32:18.799 density residential 00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:24.210 development. So pending the approval of this rezoning the 00:32:24.210 --> 00:32:24.839 applicant is 00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:28.160 proposing a multifamily development that is not part of a 00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:28.759 mixed use 00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:31.369 development therefore they're seeking the approval of this 00:32:31.369 --> 00:32:33.279 ADP. The multifamily 00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:36.490 development is consistent with that future land use 00:32:36.490 --> 00:32:37.880 designation which like 00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:41.559 I said does encourage that mixture of residential and 00:32:41.559 --> 00:32:43.000 commercial uses. This 00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:46.880 also complies with all the criteria within subchapter 6 of 00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:48.720 the DDC for SUP 00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:53.460 and those criteria are all outlined in your backup. So to 00:32:53.460 --> 00:32:55.519 go over their site 00:32:55.519 --> 00:33:01.079 plan briefly here did provide a actually I think that North 00:33:01.079 --> 00:33:02.119 area was incorrect so 00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:06.609 we have what they're proposing is two multifamily 00:33:06.609 --> 00:33:07.400 developments that would 00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:09.920 be separated by Hudson Wood Road. The top portion they 00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:11.039 refer to as the standard 00:33:11.039 --> 00:33:15.799 the southern portion would be the Hudson and this third lot 00:33:15.799 --> 00:33:16.759 here that they're 00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:19.210 proposing to develop as a part of this would provide a 00:33:19.210 --> 00:33:20.839 detention pond for these 00:33:20.839 --> 00:33:26.549 two developments. So looking at the the northern portion of 00:33:26.549 --> 00:33:29.160 it first we have four 00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:32.450 buildings within the standard it's a total of 263 00:33:32.450 --> 00:33:34.039 residential units breaks 00:33:34.039 --> 00:33:38.670 down into 43 one-bedroom units 135 two-bedroom and 85 three 00:33:38.670 --> 00:33:39.799 -bedroom. All 00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:42.289 four of these buildings they're proposing would be three 00:33:42.289 --> 00:33:42.920 stories tall 00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:46.650 approximately 34 feet in height. The total lot coverage 00:33:46.650 --> 00:33:48.200 would be around 69% 00:33:48.200 --> 00:33:52.369 and they're proposing a total of 472 parking spaces 00:33:52.369 --> 00:33:53.200 throughout the 00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:55.940 development along these private streets as well as I 00:33:55.940 --> 00:33:57.160 believe a few parking 00:33:57.160 --> 00:34:00.599 spaces on Hudson Wood Drive and they are also proposing to 00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:02.119 provide 30 bicycle 00:34:02.119 --> 00:34:07.089 parking spaces within this development. On the south side 00:34:07.089 --> 00:34:08.519 of Hudson Wood we have 00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:11.150 the development they're calling the Hudson which would be 00:34:11.150 --> 00:34:12.119 independent senior 00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:15.980 living so still multifamily but age restricted to senior 00:34:15.980 --> 00:34:17.440 citizens and this 00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:22.679 would contain two buildings with a total of 160 units 112 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:24.280 one bedrooms 48 two 00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:28.239 bedrooms in keeping with the same scale of development also 00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:29.000 three stories 00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:32.659 approximately 34 feet in height and this development would 00:34:32.659 --> 00:34:34.320 have a total of 160 00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:37.590 parking spaces no bicycle spaces are provided because of 00:34:37.590 --> 00:34:38.760 the intended users 00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:42.849 however they do provide a network of sidewalks throughout 00:34:42.849 --> 00:34:43.440 the development 00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:45.760 and they're providing sidewalk connectivity down here to 00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:46.039 allow 00:34:46.039 --> 00:34:49.489 connectivity to Somerset Drive for residents to be able to 00:34:49.489 --> 00:34:50.360 get to that Med 00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:56.880 Park station. Their landscape plan one component of that is 00:34:56.880 --> 00:34:57.840 this detention area 00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:00.849 they are intending to provide screening through by use of 00:35:00.849 --> 00:35:01.800 trees all the way 00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:04.309 around the detention pond to screen it from the right of 00:35:04.309 --> 00:35:05.239 way there at Hudson 00:35:05.239 --> 00:35:08.820 Wood and from you know any residents to the south or in 00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:10.280 future phases to the 00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:15.750 west. There are existing single-family homes on property to 00:35:15.750 --> 00:35:17.199 the west and north 00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:21.110 of this development so that does require a type B buffer 00:35:21.110 --> 00:35:22.480 between multifamily and 00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:24.909 single-family they're proposing that along the entire 00:35:24.909 --> 00:35:25.920 property line here on 00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:30.300 the north and west sides of this as well as street trees 00:35:30.300 --> 00:35:31.679 throughout the 00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:35.340 development along these private drives and street trees 00:35:35.340 --> 00:35:38.079 along Hudson Wood. On 00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:41.679 the south side very similar concept they're proposing 00:35:41.679 --> 00:35:42.719 street trees throughout 00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:47.389 as well as along Hudson Wood. At this point the applicant 00:35:47.389 --> 00:35:48.400 had not developed 00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:51.610 elevations for these buildings that they did state their 00:35:51.610 --> 00:35:52.880 intent to comply with 00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:55.440 the architectural requirements outlined in the DDC for 00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:57.800 multifamily development. 00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:01.250 Again notifications were sent we received the one neutral 00:36:01.250 --> 00:36:02.000 request or 00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:06.239 neutral response and in this case staff is recommending 00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:08.480 approval of this because 00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:11.079 we feel it is consistent with the existing land use pattern 00:36:11.079 --> 00:36:11.360 it's 00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:13.440 consistent with the zoning designations in the area as well 00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:14.159 as the future land 00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:18.329 use plan however we do suggest a few conditions as part of 00:36:18.329 --> 00:36:19.920 this approval. One 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.150 of those would be that the development substantially comply 00:36:22.150 --> 00:36:22.880 with the approved 00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:25.440 site plan and landscape plans that have been attached. We 00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:27.679 also propose that the 00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:30.840 development since we didn't have elevations to look at we 00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:31.719 're requiring 00:36:31.719 --> 00:36:34.639 that they do meet or exceed the requirements of the DDC. We 00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:35.719 do feel the 00:36:35.719 --> 00:36:39.199 need to place restrictions to limit certain materials in 00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:40.639 this case EFAS and 00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:47.420 HDO board to a maximum of 10% because that we feel that m 00:36:47.420 --> 00:36:47.719 asonry 00:36:47.719 --> 00:36:50.409 materials provide a more long-lasting and durable product 00:36:50.409 --> 00:36:51.280 so we would like to 00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:55.480 see that limitation and we also propose we don't know what 00:36:55.480 --> 00:36:56.800 their signage would 00:36:56.800 --> 00:36:59.079 be at this point but we're proposing that they only use 00:36:59.079 --> 00:37:00.000 monument signs and 00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:02.760 building signs for these developments to limit the use of 00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:03.960 any large pole signs or 00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:07.460 anything on Hudson Wood Drive to keep with that residential 00:37:07.460 --> 00:37:08.219 feel. And at this 00:37:08.219 --> 00:37:12.420 point I can answer any questions. Commissioner Rossell. 00:37:12.420 --> 00:37:15.039 Thank you chair. This might be 00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:19.880 moving for my clarification the rezoning from RCCD to RCR2 00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:21.599 was to eliminate the 00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:25.239 need for the commercial requirements but the SUP is to 00:37:25.239 --> 00:37:26.480 eliminate these for 00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:30.389 multi- eliminate the need for multi-use. Can you help me 00:37:30.389 --> 00:37:31.559 understand the 00:37:31.559 --> 00:37:35.809 differences between the rezoning the SUP? Certainly. Go 00:37:35.809 --> 00:37:37.519 ahead Tatey. So the reason 00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:40.679 there's two limitations that are applied under RCCD one of 00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:42.360 those states that 00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:45.239 there be ground floor commercial development as part of a 00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:45.800 mixed-use 00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:48.230 development to get multifamily on the upper stories of a 00:37:48.230 --> 00:37:49.639 building the second 00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:52.400 limitation requires that it either be part of a mixed-use 00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:53.480 development or with 00:37:53.480 --> 00:37:57.960 an SUP. One of those limitations carries over into RCR2 and 00:37:57.960 --> 00:37:58.239 it's the 00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:01.000 second that allows either a mixed-use development or 00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:02.940 approval of an SUP and so 00:38:02.940 --> 00:38:06.650 in this case they chose not to provide that commercial and 00:38:06.650 --> 00:38:08.079 sought the SUP. That 00:38:08.079 --> 00:38:11.519 makes sense. Is the second question to have is the parking 00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:12.280 requirement one to 00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:18.349 one unit to parking spot? For so for the northern property 00:38:18.349 --> 00:38:21.119 that you see here the 00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:23.360 parking requirement is broken down based on the number of 00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:24.280 bedrooms there is a 00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:28.230 provision in the DDC for senior housing to be able to one 00:38:28.230 --> 00:38:29.679 to one ratio so that 00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:33.159 would apply to the southern portion of the development. I 00:38:33.159 --> 00:38:33.239 didn't do the calculations but is 00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:37.980 the calculations for the the northern I guess the stand it 00:38:37.980 --> 00:38:39.559 's the standard one 00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:43.750 it's 462 spots is that how many beds they have? No the 00:38:43.750 --> 00:38:45.960 ratios depend on the 00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:48.829 number of bedrooms so a one bedroom unit I believe is 00:38:48.829 --> 00:38:51.280 parked at 1.25 one and a 00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:54.809 half spaces and then that number changes based on the 00:38:54.809 --> 00:38:56.880 number of bedrooms. So my 00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:00.360 question is the 472 the minimum does it meet it is it above 00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:01.400 where does that the 00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:05.639 472 parking spaces? That is the correct number of spaces. 00:39:05.639 --> 00:39:06.559 It's the minimum? Yes 00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:11.219 yeah it meets the requirement. Okay perfect okay thanks. Mr 00:39:11.219 --> 00:39:12.679 . Beck. Thank you 00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:16.539 chair. First just let me state as a senior who likes to 00:39:16.539 --> 00:39:17.400 ride his bike I'm 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:21.000 sorely disappointed that they are not planning on putting 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:22.519 bicycle lanes and 00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:29.409 racks in there. To be clear these are not SROs. No. Okay. 00:39:29.409 --> 00:39:31.400 Information provided that 00:39:31.400 --> 00:39:35.960 there will be 40 on-street parking spaces allotted I'm 00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:36.639 assuming these will 00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:41.480 be on Hudson Wood that being the only street there. Yes 00:39:41.480 --> 00:39:42.760 yeah there are parking 00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:44.840 spaces shown here along Hudson Wood on the north and south 00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:45.480 side of the drive. 00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:53.159 North and south okay. Would the and you talked about in the 00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:55.079 backup background 00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:58.889 information talked about 8% of the area would be open space 00:39:58.889 --> 00:40:00.239 is that what the the 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:02.960 pool courtyard area? The pool can count towards that open 00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:04.000 space it's intended to 00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:07.019 be any recreational space so here on the northern side you 00:40:07.019 --> 00:40:08.079 can see I did circle 00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:10.329 in blue and forgot to mention they have open spaces kind of 00:40:10.329 --> 00:40:11.840 courtyards intended 00:40:11.840 --> 00:40:16.519 between the buildings and that does include a pool. Okay. 00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:26.530 Also in the illustrations I had it indicated there was a 00:40:26.530 --> 00:40:28.559 retention 00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:34.730 detention pond inside the Hudson compound. Yeah. Yes they 00:40:34.730 --> 00:40:36.480 are proposing a pond on 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:39.500 the interior of this development as well as that separate 00:40:39.500 --> 00:40:40.440 detention pond I 00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:44.110 believe the amount of volume they needed to treat required 00:40:44.110 --> 00:40:45.400 both of those areas. 00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:49.039 Okay so I'm assuming this is probably gonna be decorated up 00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:50.800 to have the appeal of a park or something. 00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:54.630 I would assume so and I don't think they show a little bit 00:40:54.630 --> 00:40:55.559 of landscaping on here 00:40:55.559 --> 00:40:58.250 but I'm not sure what their exact aesthetic plans are for 00:40:58.250 --> 00:41:00.000 that pond. Okay 00:41:00.000 --> 00:41:03.199 and appreciate the fact that the developers proposing a 00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:04.000 type B 10-foot 00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:09.070 landscape barrier on the north end but can you go back to 00:41:09.070 --> 00:41:10.800 your Google shot of 00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:15.880 what the property actually looks like? If you I don't know 00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:17.119 if you can get any close up but on the 00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:21.150 north side on that other lot that's not part of this there 00:41:21.150 --> 00:41:21.719 's a lot of 00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:28.070 trees there so do we need that 10-foot barrier at this time 00:41:28.070 --> 00:41:29.559 ? I'm not certain if 00:41:29.559 --> 00:41:34.559 those trees fall on their property or on the other property 00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:35.480 but at this time 00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:38.639 because this has an existing residential use as does this 00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:40.039 they're proposing that 00:41:40.039 --> 00:41:43.260 buffer to provide that in case those trees go away with any 00:41:43.260 --> 00:41:44.280 future development 00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:46.690 on the northern property. Okay and I raise it a little bit 00:41:46.690 --> 00:41:47.679 I gotta let me just 00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:49.559 make a brief statement here I'm worried about how this 00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:51.039 development will impact 00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:55.159 the land immediately north of it the dense cluster of trees 00:41:55.159 --> 00:41:56.199 there will surely 00:41:56.199 --> 00:42:02.269 be impacted if this sort of development is expanded as per 00:42:02.269 --> 00:42:03.639 our future land use 00:42:03.639 --> 00:42:08.000 map that's quite possible. As we prepare to update our tree 00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:08.920 code that seeks to 00:42:08.920 --> 00:42:12.519 preserve at least 30% tree canopy this is one of those 00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:14.559 areas that Haywood 00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:17.380 talked about that's in an undeveloped area that we could 00:42:17.380 --> 00:42:18.519 lose that and I would 00:42:18.519 --> 00:42:24.940 seriously hope that city planning somebody within the city 00:42:24.940 --> 00:42:26.440 playing part 00:42:26.440 --> 00:42:29.300 maybe even parks and recreation would recognize this 00:42:29.300 --> 00:42:30.920 potential problem as we 00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:33.610 move forward and seek ways to some of this land aside from 00:42:33.610 --> 00:42:35.480 green space and/or 00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:38.000 a park area that would benefit the expanding communities 00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:38.840 that are going up 00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:41.440 there because if you realize if you take a look at this 00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:42.639 there isn't any park area 00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:45.800 over there at all no real green open space and if we're 00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:46.559 going to open this up 00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:49.440 to this kind of development it seems like a real good place 00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:50.360 to put a park and 00:42:50.360 --> 00:42:53.670 kind of kill two birds with one stone preserve those trees 00:42:53.670 --> 00:42:55.280 as best we can so I 00:42:55.280 --> 00:42:59.139 just wanted that to go into the record and that we don't 00:42:59.139 --> 00:43:00.599 overlook that as we 00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:04.280 move forward and developers come in and want to build 00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:06.639 something there okay thank 00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:08.719 you 00:43:11.480 --> 00:43:21.900 any other questions for staff? I think we're going to call 00:43:21.900 --> 00:43:24.239 a recess here at 5 50 00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:28.000 and get food right quick and then get back in here as quick 00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:28.880 as we can but I 00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:32.039 know we've got two big items to still try to get in and 00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:33.079 done before work 00:43:33.079 --> 00:43:40.519 sessions over recess 5 50. Good afternoon and welcome back 00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:42.280 to our work session I 00:43:42.280 --> 00:43:47.690 might call us back in order at 5 57 I think our next order 00:43:47.690 --> 00:43:49.360 of business will be 00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:55.650 to get an update on our public hearing or it's gonna be 00:43:55.650 --> 00:43:58.039 item Z 16 - 0 0 2 3 00:43:58.039 --> 00:44:05.480 part 7 I believe. I'm gonna call on Julie Wyatt for 00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:11.360 presentation of that. Good 00:44:11.360 --> 00:44:13.610 evening I'm Julie Wyatt senior planner with the city of 00:44:13.610 --> 00:44:14.440 Denton I know we've 00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:16.650 been over some of this so I'll go quickly on some parts 00:44:16.650 --> 00:44:17.280 some parts we 00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:19.420 didn't actually get to you in the last work session we'll 00:44:19.420 --> 00:44:20.119 take a little more 00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:22.739 time with that I know we're we're bumping up against the 00:44:22.739 --> 00:44:25.940 clock but so the 00:44:25.940 --> 00:44:30.030 location to remind you the location of the subject property 00:44:30.030 --> 00:44:30.840 is south of 00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:36.579 Scripture between normal and Bryan it's about 1250 feet 00:44:36.579 --> 00:44:38.039 north of the UNT campus 00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:42.469 which is about a five to ten minute walk. I should also 00:44:42.469 --> 00:44:44.420 mention that the request 00:44:44.420 --> 00:44:48.320 includes three parcels there's one larger parcel here and 00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:49.360 then two smaller 00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:52.190 parcels you can see that my yellow line that shows the 00:44:52.190 --> 00:44:53.480 subject property cuts 00:44:53.480 --> 00:44:56.309 through this larger parcel that one has split zoning and we 00:44:56.309 --> 00:44:57.320 'll see that in just 00:44:57.320 --> 00:45:01.630 a minute. So the request before you is to consider rezoning 00:45:01.630 --> 00:45:03.320 approximately 1.39 00:45:03.320 --> 00:45:06.559 acres from downtown residential to district to downtown 00:45:06.559 --> 00:45:08.119 commercial general 00:45:08.119 --> 00:45:13.440 district. So we'll take at the current current zoning and 00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:14.800 land use pattern if 00:45:14.800 --> 00:45:17.420 you remember my busy map from two weeks ago we're gonna go 00:45:17.420 --> 00:45:18.199 over it briefly 00:45:18.199 --> 00:45:23.230 again. So here is the subject property again it's outlined 00:45:23.230 --> 00:45:25.000 in black this this 00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:28.679 large parcel here's where that split zoning comes into play 00:45:28.679 --> 00:45:30.320 the north part of 00:45:30.320 --> 00:45:34.239 this large parcel already has the DCG zoning district the 00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:35.559 southern part is 00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:40.039 that dr2 it is the subject property is situated in about a 00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:41.119 four block area 00:45:41.119 --> 00:45:45.079 that's north of the UNT campus that's a real mixed use area 00:45:45.079 --> 00:45:46.599 it includes single 00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:50.710 family single family that functions as multifamily multif 00:45:50.710 --> 00:45:52.559 amily dwellings and 00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:55.719 commercial development so there's a lot going on in that 00:45:55.719 --> 00:45:56.360 four block four block 00:45:56.360 --> 00:46:00.530 area and the subject property is actually developed with a 00:46:00.530 --> 00:46:01.300 commercial 00:46:01.300 --> 00:46:03.949 building or an institutional building that's been vacant 00:46:03.949 --> 00:46:05.519 for some time and 00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:08.679 then also there's two single family dwellings on the on the 00:46:08.679 --> 00:46:09.519 additional two 00:46:09.519 --> 00:46:13.409 parcels. If we'll look if we'll take a broader look at the 00:46:13.409 --> 00:46:14.880 area and look at the 00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:18.250 surrounding neighborhoods from that from the from the 00:46:18.250 --> 00:46:20.360 adjacent properties you'll 00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:23.960 see that there the surrounding neighborhoods are 00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:24.559 traditional 00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:28.760 established neighborhoods they have a zoning designation of 00:46:28.760 --> 00:46:30.079 primarily in our 00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:33.960 three that doesn't permit multifamily it's it's one of our 00:46:33.960 --> 00:46:34.639 low density 00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:38.130 residential zoning districts it doesn't permit commercial 00:46:38.130 --> 00:46:38.920 or multifamily 00:46:38.920 --> 00:46:42.989 development. If you'll look just to the north of the of the 00:46:42.989 --> 00:46:44.400 request across 00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:48.829 scripture you'll see you've got NRMU 12 as well as NRMU 00:46:48.829 --> 00:46:50.119 these areas are 00:46:50.119 --> 00:46:53.929 developed with multifamily uses also some single family and 00:46:53.929 --> 00:46:55.159 some office uses 00:46:55.159 --> 00:46:59.280 so there's there's mixed use in this area as well and then 00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:01.239 in those areas that 00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:04.119 have that in our three zoning district designation those 00:47:04.119 --> 00:47:04.840 established 00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:08.019 neighborhoods we have an additional layer on some of those 00:47:08.019 --> 00:47:08.840 and that's our 00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:12.000 historic districts we have the West Oak Historic District 00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:13.039 here and then the Oak 00:47:13.039 --> 00:47:16.510 Hickory Historic District here those if there are any 00:47:16.510 --> 00:47:18.079 facade changes proposed 00:47:18.079 --> 00:47:22.510 for any structures within those districts they would be 00:47:22.510 --> 00:47:23.480 required to 00:47:23.480 --> 00:47:26.980 obtain approval for a certificate of appropriateness from 00:47:26.980 --> 00:47:27.760 the Historic 00:47:27.760 --> 00:47:31.260 Landmark Commission so that's an additional layer on those 00:47:31.260 --> 00:47:32.199 areas and then 00:47:32.199 --> 00:47:39.349 to the south here we have the UNT campus any questions on 00:47:39.349 --> 00:47:41.079 that okay so the future 00:47:41.079 --> 00:47:44.239 land use is neighborhood university compatibility area and 00:47:44.239 --> 00:47:45.119 that encompasses 00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:50.500 kind of this this four block area north of UNT and these 00:47:50.500 --> 00:47:51.559 are areas that are 00:47:51.559 --> 00:47:55.130 affected by the universities within our city and in this 00:47:55.130 --> 00:47:56.719 instance it's UNT but 00:47:56.719 --> 00:48:02.789 this also affects TWU in some instances the intent is to 00:48:02.789 --> 00:48:03.960 create compatible form 00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:07.119 and land uses for areas that serve both the established 00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:08.679 neighborhoods as well as 00:48:08.679 --> 00:48:13.880 the universities UNT is growing they intend to grow they're 00:48:13.880 --> 00:48:14.239 planning on 00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:17.610 growing and so this is these areas are intended to serve 00:48:17.610 --> 00:48:18.880 those university as 00:48:18.880 --> 00:48:23.199 well as neighborhood areas the intent is to provide gradual 00:48:23.199 --> 00:48:24.800 transition in scale 00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:28.329 use and character and also to encourage uses in close 00:48:28.329 --> 00:48:30.599 proximity to encourage 00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:35.570 walking bicycling the multimodal transportation so you can 00:48:35.570 --> 00:48:36.199 see that the 00:48:36.199 --> 00:48:39.150 the future land use map kind of coincides with some of the 00:48:39.150 --> 00:48:40.039 zoning that we 00:48:40.039 --> 00:48:42.860 have and that those areas that have that in our three 00:48:42.860 --> 00:48:45.800 zoning designation are our 00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:49.070 the future land use designation is that low density 00:48:49.070 --> 00:48:50.800 residential and then that 00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:55.400 area with the NRMU and NRMU 12 is community or I'm sorry 00:48:55.400 --> 00:48:55.880 neighborhood 00:48:55.880 --> 00:48:58.769 mixed use so that coincides with some of the zoning that's 00:48:58.769 --> 00:49:00.719 already in place so 00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:02.889 the considerations that we looked at when we analyzed the 00:49:02.889 --> 00:49:03.719 request first of all 00:49:03.719 --> 00:49:06.239 we looked at subchapter three of the Denton development 00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:07.320 code the criteria for 00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:10.579 approval the first does it meet does the request meet the 00:49:10.579 --> 00:49:11.360 future land use 00:49:11.360 --> 00:49:16.559 designation of neighborhood university compatibility DCG 00:49:16.559 --> 00:49:19.300 and does have the 00:49:19.300 --> 00:49:24.320 density and the types of uses that that you typically see 00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:26.119 within a university 00:49:26.119 --> 00:49:28.800 area so it provides that density and commercial development 00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:29.320 within the 00:49:29.320 --> 00:49:33.079 proximity of DCG because of the uses and the density f 00:49:33.079 --> 00:49:34.599 osters walkability 00:49:34.599 --> 00:49:39.989 livability and a vibrancy on a track that's been in disuse 00:49:39.989 --> 00:49:41.400 for several years 00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:44.960 staff looked at it as potentially a catalyst for revital 00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:46.000 ization in that 00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:50.210 area between UNT and those established neighborhoods and 00:49:50.210 --> 00:49:51.440 this current zoning 00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:54.869 pattern provides the physical barriers necessary to 00:49:54.869 --> 00:49:56.440 transition between the 00:49:56.440 --> 00:50:00.670 higher intensity and density development that DCG has and 00:50:00.670 --> 00:50:01.639 then the lower 00:50:01.639 --> 00:50:04.989 intensity development in the surrounding neighborhoods let 00:50:04.989 --> 00:50:06.119 's look at a map so 00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:10.760 show you what I mean so for instance this existing DCG 00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:12.719 permits development to 00:50:12.719 --> 00:50:17.599 a height of 100 feet however the the dr2 that's adjacent to 00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:18.920 the those in our three 00:50:18.920 --> 00:50:22.460 neighborhoods only permits development to a height of 45 00:50:22.460 --> 00:50:25.239 feet the NRMU and NRMU 00:50:25.239 --> 00:50:28.630 12 also stepped down the development I believe NRMU permits 00:50:28.630 --> 00:50:29.679 a maximum height of 00:50:29.679 --> 00:50:34.480 65 feet so it it scales down the development from that DCG 00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:35.760 to those those 00:50:35.760 --> 00:50:40.909 neighborhoods surrounding the other criteria for approval 00:50:40.909 --> 00:50:42.360 is as is there 00:50:42.360 --> 00:50:46.719 adequate infrastructure to support development in the area 00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:47.679 infrastructure 00:50:47.679 --> 00:50:50.980 needs assessment will be done at the time of platting and 00:50:50.980 --> 00:50:52.119 also site plan and 00:50:52.119 --> 00:50:56.369 of course it comes without saying that any development that 00:50:56.369 --> 00:50:57.360 wants to get a 00:50:57.360 --> 00:51:00.150 building permit or site plan approval must meet the 00:51:00.150 --> 00:51:01.119 infrastructure 00:51:01.119 --> 00:51:04.039 requirements within the Denton Development Code in order to 00:51:04.039 --> 00:51:04.360 obtain 00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:10.429 those permits other considerations we looked at the 00:51:10.429 --> 00:51:11.320 proposed rezoning does 00:51:11.320 --> 00:51:14.570 include the three tracks the one larger which has the split 00:51:14.570 --> 00:51:15.679 zoning and then the 00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:20.679 two smaller ones the and the intent of this rezoning is to 00:51:20.679 --> 00:51:21.599 consolidate the 00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:25.460 zoning designation in this area and that the site is 00:51:25.460 --> 00:51:27.440 currently underutilized with 00:51:27.440 --> 00:51:31.320 the vacant building on the site and the rezoning would 00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:33.719 permit the entire property 00:51:33.719 --> 00:51:37.289 to redevelop under consistent zoning regulations resulting 00:51:37.289 --> 00:51:38.159 in a more cohesive 00:51:38.159 --> 00:51:42.159 development and we'll look at a map so the applicant has 00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:43.639 expressed an interest 00:51:43.639 --> 00:51:46.869 to develop a total of three acres so it would be the 00:51:46.869 --> 00:51:48.679 subject property which is 00:51:48.679 --> 00:51:52.239 in red and then and then the property to the north so 00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:53.920 encompasses a total of three 00:51:53.920 --> 00:51:58.639 acres so the rezoning to DCG would allow this to develop 00:51:58.639 --> 00:51:59.719 under those consistent 00:51:59.719 --> 00:52:06.250 DCG zoning regulations to allow consistent development I've 00:52:06.250 --> 00:52:06.880 got site 00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:09.400 photos once again I've used some of Google because they do 00:52:09.400 --> 00:52:09.960 better job than 00:52:09.960 --> 00:52:14.389 me so here is normal Street looking north towards Scripture 00:52:14.389 --> 00:52:15.599 here is one of 00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:18.780 those what here's one of the subject property and one is 00:52:18.780 --> 00:52:20.000 off-camera here's 00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:24.730 here's that use that's adjacent to Scripture this is on 00:52:24.730 --> 00:52:26.440 Bryan Street looking 00:52:26.440 --> 00:52:30.570 north once again there's the subject property and then here 00:52:30.570 --> 00:52:31.440 's some of the 00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:34.880 photos of development that's across the street I believe 00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:36.039 this is on normal and 00:52:36.039 --> 00:52:38.539 then these two are on Scripture so just shows you kind of 00:52:38.539 --> 00:52:39.760 what what the area is 00:52:39.760 --> 00:52:44.380 like additional considerations we looked at there were two 00:52:44.380 --> 00:52:45.280 neighborhood meetings 00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:48.269 associated with this request and one of the one of the 00:52:48.269 --> 00:52:49.119 concerns was 00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:52.320 compatibility in scale and that's something that the future 00:52:52.320 --> 00:52:52.800 land use 00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:58.030 designation also talks about and so staff looked at that 00:52:58.030 --> 00:52:58.860 and the DIN 00:52:58.860 --> 00:53:02.760 development code does have some requirements in it that 00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:05.719 that work to 00:53:05.719 --> 00:53:09.440 address differences in scale and to address compatibility 00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:10.400 issues in site 00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:14.010 design so one of those is the residential proximity slope 00:53:14.010 --> 00:53:14.360 so if 00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:19.400 someone is is proposing a multifamily development and it's 00:53:19.400 --> 00:53:21.840 adjacent to to a 00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:25.139 single-family residential development either by property 00:53:25.139 --> 00:53:26.159 line or across the 00:53:26.159 --> 00:53:29.599 street so across the right-of-way that multifamily 00:53:29.599 --> 00:53:30.880 development would have to 00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:34.119 comply with the residential proximity slope the intent of 00:53:34.119 --> 00:53:35.159 this is to ensure 00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:39.829 that the that development maintains a human scale on this 00:53:39.829 --> 00:53:41.360 on the street on the 00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:44.989 sidewalk and the adjacent property so here's how it's 00:53:44.989 --> 00:53:47.639 calculated you go up 40 00:53:47.639 --> 00:53:51.940 feet and then you step the development back at an angle of 00:53:51.940 --> 00:53:53.960 35 degrees from that 00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:59.519 40 feet so it not only is is used at the property line it's 00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:01.639 also used when when 00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:04.840 abutting a single-family use or district across the street 00:54:04.840 --> 00:54:06.679 so it's in order to 00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:10.409 maintain or to minimize the visual impact of that 00:54:10.409 --> 00:54:12.480 development on the street 00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:16.239 also I know this was this was a big question at the last 00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:17.079 meeting so 00:54:17.079 --> 00:54:20.369 hopefully I will say it better this time so there are also 00:54:20.369 --> 00:54:21.760 minimum setbacks and 00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:24.679 buffers within the didn't development code now after our 00:54:24.679 --> 00:54:25.679 discussion at the 00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:28.840 last meeting we went back and looked at it and these don't 00:54:28.840 --> 00:54:29.800 actually apply to 00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:33.460 this development because there's no single-family use 00:54:33.460 --> 00:54:34.800 adjacent to this to 00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:39.059 this property within the area but it's part of a larger 00:54:39.059 --> 00:54:40.920 discussion and how our 00:54:40.920 --> 00:54:44.869 mixed-use districts and how a mix of uses actually can can 00:54:44.869 --> 00:54:46.079 be placed next to 00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:50.440 each other and be compatible and form commissioner back 00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:51.679 thank you chair Judy 00:54:51.679 --> 00:54:56.639 said there's no residential dwelling that butts up against 00:54:56.639 --> 00:54:58.559 this it is actually it 00:54:58.559 --> 00:55:05.880 functions as a multifamily okay because that that is the 00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:08.519 one on the south side 00:55:08.519 --> 00:55:13.039 of the yes sir yes sir thanks so so we I just wanted to be 00:55:13.039 --> 00:55:15.559 sure that's good 00:55:19.639 --> 00:55:30.960 I'm calculating okay no I that's troublesome the it's a 00:55:30.960 --> 00:55:33.559 house and it's 00:55:33.559 --> 00:55:38.719 not mandated how it function I would think and and so I 00:55:38.719 --> 00:55:39.599 think when you're 00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:43.139 talking about it's functioning as a multifamily now that 00:55:43.139 --> 00:55:44.639 doesn't carry on in 00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:50.050 perpetuity I would think am I right that that that could 00:55:50.050 --> 00:55:52.559 vacillate so then we're 00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:56.780 using something that could vacillate by lease to make a 00:55:56.780 --> 00:55:58.440 decision that won't 00:55:58.440 --> 00:56:02.480 vacillate am I that they're not gonna move their building 00:56:02.480 --> 00:56:03.960 but we're gonna base 00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:08.280 what they do with their building on something that that's 00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:10.000 kit it's governed 00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:14.130 by a lease am I right I guess I'll try to respond to that 00:56:14.130 --> 00:56:15.519 and I'm an all-main 00:56:15.519 --> 00:56:18.880 say but we do look at that use at that point in time at 00:56:18.880 --> 00:56:20.559 time of development and 00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:25.159 and these setbacks as well as buffers talk about use and 00:56:25.159 --> 00:56:27.000 not zoning districts 00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:31.449 so you're actually budding so you're actually your those 00:56:31.449 --> 00:56:32.760 design guidelines 00:56:32.760 --> 00:56:36.500 are applied in terms of the use which is merely a 00:56:36.500 --> 00:56:38.679 requirement of the Denton 00:56:38.679 --> 00:56:42.539 Development Code that we would be implementing right I 00:56:42.539 --> 00:56:43.840 guess I guess my 00:56:43.840 --> 00:56:49.909 point would be I just I mean just overall I have a problem 00:56:49.909 --> 00:56:50.480 governing 00:56:50.480 --> 00:56:54.599 something that won't move by something I mean because I'm 00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:56.719 certain you tip your 00:56:56.719 --> 00:57:00.039 hand almost to where that person says okay well now there's 00:57:00.039 --> 00:57:01.079 one person I mean 00:57:01.079 --> 00:57:03.010 I just don't even know how we go about getting that 00:57:03.010 --> 00:57:04.119 information I think the 00:57:04.119 --> 00:57:07.010 intent and I'm sorry to interrupt no I apologize that was 00:57:07.010 --> 00:57:08.639 rude the intent of 00:57:08.639 --> 00:57:13.010 that requirement if we use another example to explain why 00:57:13.010 --> 00:57:13.880 it's being 00:57:13.880 --> 00:57:18.949 implemented here is because it it's not specific to just a 00:57:18.949 --> 00:57:20.400 certain zoning 00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:24.840 district so if we look at our industrial or non residential 00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:25.880 zoning districts 00:57:25.880 --> 00:57:29.039 because of the way the build out or the built-out 00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:30.820 environment is we have a lot 00:57:30.820 --> 00:57:34.579 of residential uses that may not be in a residential zoning 00:57:34.579 --> 00:57:36.360 district however the 00:57:36.360 --> 00:57:40.019 abutting zoning and use is not residential so in an effort 00:57:40.019 --> 00:57:41.840 to protect 00:57:41.840 --> 00:57:46.119 residential structures or loan residential structures in 00:57:46.119 --> 00:57:46.800 non 00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:50.989 residential zoning districts to visually screen or provide 00:57:50.989 --> 00:57:52.559 some kind of mechanism 00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:56.590 physical mechanism to be a good neighbor so to speak for 00:57:56.590 --> 00:57:57.719 the lack of a better 00:57:57.719 --> 00:58:01.889 phrase is why it would why that intent was built into the 00:58:01.889 --> 00:58:03.320 Development Code 00:58:03.320 --> 00:58:08.000 Commissioner Ozil thank you I just wanted to maybe add on 00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:09.079 to Commissioner 00:58:09.079 --> 00:58:13.730 Hesbeth just so I understand if that single family detached 00:58:13.730 --> 00:58:14.360 home had one 00:58:14.360 --> 00:58:18.920 family living in it it would be 20 feet that's setback 00:58:18.920 --> 00:58:20.079 right 20 foot setback 00:58:20.079 --> 00:58:23.239 not a buffer right yes sir so it'd be a 20 foot setback and 00:58:23.239 --> 00:58:24.679 they can build 10 00:58:24.679 --> 00:58:29.789 stories so that could be 70 feet above 30 so if that to 00:58:29.789 --> 00:58:31.119 Commissioner's point if 00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:35.699 it was a single family living there that setback would be 00:58:35.699 --> 00:58:38.079 90 feet but because 00:58:38.079 --> 00:58:41.619 there's two people living there there's no setback above 00:58:41.619 --> 00:58:43.039 and beyond currently 00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:47.360 that's my understanding so let's let's talk about if I can 00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:48.880 attack your question 00:58:48.880 --> 00:58:54.949 differently to answer it the reason why the use is not 00:58:54.949 --> 00:58:56.800 being classified as a 00:58:56.800 --> 00:59:00.900 single-family residence is because there are multiple 00:59:00.900 --> 00:59:02.559 meters so in terms of how 00:59:02.559 --> 00:59:05.199 many people are living there I don't know but that 00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:06.280 structure has been 00:59:06.280 --> 00:59:09.989 converted from a single-family dwelling unit to use of 00:59:09.989 --> 00:59:11.840 multiple bedrooms within 00:59:11.840 --> 00:59:15.030 that dwelling in it which then changes its use as it 00:59:15.030 --> 00:59:16.800 relates to the setback I 00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:19.530 believe you are correct when we do the calculation but the 00:59:19.530 --> 00:59:20.519 setback is from the 00:59:20.519 --> 00:59:24.079 use so we would actually determine and Julie correct me if 00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:25.460 I'm wrong please we 00:59:25.460 --> 00:59:29.059 would actually determine the setback from the structure 00:59:29.059 --> 00:59:30.400 itself and you would 00:59:30.400 --> 00:59:34.389 work backwards 20 feet and then from there start adding on 00:59:34.389 --> 00:59:35.519 depending on the 00:59:35.519 --> 00:59:38.320 height of your building and of course the height of your 00:59:38.320 --> 00:59:39.360 building depending on 00:59:39.360 --> 00:59:43.679 the zoning district would then dictate so yes would it imp 00:59:43.679 --> 00:59:44.760 ede potentially I 00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:48.000 believe impede is an incorrect word but would it impact the 00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:49.000 height of a building 00:59:49.000 --> 00:59:52.670 or a structure adjacent to a single-family use it could 00:59:52.670 --> 00:59:53.440 potentially is 00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:56.599 depending on the size of the lot too okay and that's all 00:59:56.599 --> 00:59:57.599 governed by the 00:59:57.599 --> 01:00:01.260 development yes and just for my identification this is 01:00:01.260 --> 01:00:01.920 slightly 01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:04.829 opt-out fix it'll be a quick question if there is a shed or 01:00:04.829 --> 01:00:06.480 detached garage then 01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:10.909 the setback would be for that building so if it was a 01:00:10.909 --> 01:00:12.880 residential use so a shed 01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:15.659 or a detached garage would not then it would be the 01:00:15.659 --> 01:00:17.519 residential use itself okay 01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:23.760 thank you and then also landscape by person yes mr. Taylor 01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:24.119 so I just want to 01:00:24.119 --> 01:00:26.500 I'm gonna clarify this because I I haven't heard this 01:00:26.500 --> 01:00:27.239 definition of 01:00:27.239 --> 01:00:31.139 multi-family before and the other commissioners were 01:00:31.139 --> 01:00:32.519 talking about leases 01:00:32.519 --> 01:00:35.159 but you're saying it's because there are two meters two 01:00:35.159 --> 01:00:37.159 electric meters I believe 01:00:37.159 --> 01:00:41.059 there more than two meters on the side which then begs the 01:00:41.059 --> 01:00:42.320 question is it being 01:00:42.320 --> 01:00:46.329 used as a single-family residence or is it being used as 01:00:46.329 --> 01:00:47.840 not a multi-family 01:00:47.840 --> 01:00:51.280 complex but is it used being used for multiple residents 01:00:51.280 --> 01:00:52.000 use yeah and so I 01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:54.519 think this is this is a I'm almost certain that that 01:00:54.519 --> 01:00:55.480 definition isn't 01:00:55.480 --> 01:00:59.039 outlined in the DDC that that was one we're trying to find 01:00:59.039 --> 01:01:00.039 a good definition 01:01:00.039 --> 01:01:04.039 for the use and I have concerns about the murkiness here 01:01:04.039 --> 01:01:06.199 because somebody could 01:01:06.199 --> 01:01:09.010 own their home and they could rent out a bedroom and they 01:01:09.010 --> 01:01:10.440 would or two bedrooms 01:01:10.440 --> 01:01:12.679 to two separate college students I have a friend who does 01:01:12.679 --> 01:01:13.800 that pays his mortgage 01:01:13.800 --> 01:01:17.920 by by having roommates basically yes and that wouldn't be 01:01:17.920 --> 01:01:18.679 multi-family so 01:01:18.679 --> 01:01:22.559 let's assume let's take your example into consideration 01:01:22.559 --> 01:01:23.719 then the question is 01:01:23.719 --> 01:01:26.900 do each one of those rooms have their own separate meters 01:01:26.900 --> 01:01:28.519 and utilities right 01:01:28.519 --> 01:01:32.219 then it is no longer functioning as a residential use so we 01:01:32.219 --> 01:01:33.119 've got two issues 01:01:33.119 --> 01:01:37.309 happening one is the definition of specific uses and then 01:01:37.309 --> 01:01:38.079 how do you 01:01:38.079 --> 01:01:41.360 interpret or determine intent of an existing structure in 01:01:41.360 --> 01:01:42.440 this case I 01:01:42.440 --> 01:01:46.309 wouldn't be in a position to say categorically that that is 01:01:46.309 --> 01:01:46.440 a 01:01:46.440 --> 01:01:49.739 residential use it may look like a residential structure to 01:01:49.739 --> 01:01:50.519 the south but 01:01:50.519 --> 01:01:54.579 it's actually being utilized for non-residential use so I 01:01:54.579 --> 01:01:55.719 can then make 01:01:55.719 --> 01:01:58.750 that determination and another challenge here is these are 01:01:58.750 --> 01:02:00.480 both residential uses 01:02:00.480 --> 01:02:03.840 there might be four people sleeping in this house and four 01:02:03.840 --> 01:02:05.000 people sleeping in 01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:08.019 the house next door the house next door only has one meter 01:02:08.019 --> 01:02:09.039 there might be four 01:02:09.039 --> 01:02:12.000 leases on each because it's college area a lot of times 01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:13.159 rooms rented by the room 01:02:13.159 --> 01:02:16.320 exactly and it addresses building code the building code 01:02:16.320 --> 01:02:17.840 criteria also then 01:02:17.840 --> 01:02:21.320 bleed into this so in terms of is there a clear-cut 01:02:21.320 --> 01:02:23.079 definition saying should 01:02:23.079 --> 01:02:26.030 there be if there is more than one meter on a property what 01:02:26.030 --> 01:02:28.079 is that use that has 01:02:28.079 --> 01:02:31.889 not been clearly identified in the Denton Development Code 01:02:31.889 --> 01:02:34.199 yet so the goal 01:02:34.199 --> 01:02:37.389 then is to look at and again we're deviant a little bit 01:02:37.389 --> 01:02:38.360 because we're 01:02:38.360 --> 01:02:41.659 talking about zoning and the zoning on the property not the 01:02:41.659 --> 01:02:42.599 specific use or 01:02:42.599 --> 01:02:47.119 development of so if I do digress legal please tell me 01:02:47.119 --> 01:02:49.639 nicely no no stop my 01:02:49.639 --> 01:02:54.159 questions and we can do this later because we're running 01:02:54.159 --> 01:02:55.719 out of time well just for 01:02:55.719 --> 01:02:59.099 clarification so currently for this particular project that 01:02:59.099 --> 01:03:00.400 property as use 01:03:00.400 --> 01:03:04.659 is multifamily and not single-family for this particular 01:03:04.659 --> 01:03:06.599 item correct it's not 01:03:06.599 --> 01:03:11.599 being used as a single-family residence correct let me 01:03:11.599 --> 01:03:13.679 repeat to put it in those 01:03:13.679 --> 01:03:16.840 terms would be easier okay just just like I'm gonna 01:03:16.840 --> 01:03:18.519 continue briefly it's 01:03:18.519 --> 01:03:21.889 just like we have house houses single-family people operate 01:03:21.889 --> 01:03:22.400 a business 01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:27.679 under out of all up and down on Elm Street local Street 01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:28.960 those uses are no 01:03:28.960 --> 01:03:32.820 longer single-family it may look like a house but it's now 01:03:32.820 --> 01:03:34.320 a business so we have 01:03:34.320 --> 01:03:37.690 a similar type situation that this looks like a single- 01:03:37.690 --> 01:03:39.519 family house has four 01:03:39.519 --> 01:03:43.960 meters on it it is a functioning and used as a multifamily 01:03:43.960 --> 01:03:46.119 use at this time 01:03:46.119 --> 01:03:49.900 okay Commissioner that's good briefly my point is that that 01:03:49.900 --> 01:03:51.219 's that's one 01:03:51.219 --> 01:03:54.380 flexible that it could they they could pull the meters off 01:03:54.380 --> 01:03:55.360 tomorrow and we 01:03:55.360 --> 01:03:58.820 have a giant building next to it and in two I think it's 01:03:58.820 --> 01:04:02.280 important to note that 01:04:03.239 --> 01:04:06.179 who makes that determination who's the final say if it's 01:04:06.179 --> 01:04:07.440 not in the deed if 01:04:07.440 --> 01:04:10.039 it's not in the development code who makes that final 01:04:10.039 --> 01:04:11.320 determination I mean 01:04:11.320 --> 01:04:14.340 because I don't know that I want to make the logical leap 01:04:14.340 --> 01:04:15.480 that just because you 01:04:15.480 --> 01:04:18.429 want to divide your utility bill up however you want to 01:04:18.429 --> 01:04:19.280 divide it and and 01:04:19.280 --> 01:04:21.869 you want to have as many meters as you want you want to 01:04:21.869 --> 01:04:23.119 take an extension cord 01:04:23.119 --> 01:04:25.690 and run it to your neighbor's house I don't know that I 01:04:25.690 --> 01:04:26.400 want to make a 01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:29.760 determination on any of those things on how people govern 01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:30.920 their finances so I 01:04:30.920 --> 01:04:33.719 want to know who's the final say so in making that 01:04:33.719 --> 01:04:35.519 determination that that's 01:04:35.519 --> 01:04:37.849 multifamily and that's what we're gonna apply because if it 01:04:37.849 --> 01:04:38.719 comes to this board 01:04:38.719 --> 01:04:41.880 let us vote on it if it's if someone arbitrarily it's gonna 01:04:41.880 --> 01:04:42.599 hand that down 01:04:42.599 --> 01:04:45.280 who is that I just want to make it clear for the record is 01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:46.639 the property that the 01:04:46.639 --> 01:04:50.920 house is sitting on how is that zoned DR2 and that allows 01:04:50.920 --> 01:04:52.360 single-family it does 01:04:52.360 --> 01:04:56.360 it does so it's not a non-conforming structure no it's just 01:04:56.360 --> 01:04:57.400 being converted 01:04:57.400 --> 01:05:03.469 it's not even related as we we don't know we don't know we 01:05:03.469 --> 01:05:04.119 hadn't talked to 01:05:04.119 --> 01:05:07.780 him I don't think anybody if someone has looked at the 01:05:07.780 --> 01:05:08.519 outside of their house 01:05:08.519 --> 01:05:12.199 when they drove by because they're opportunist and and and 01:05:12.199 --> 01:05:14.400 have not talked 01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:18.260 to that I'd love to hear who we talked to so what she's 01:05:18.260 --> 01:05:19.400 saying is because it's 01:05:19.400 --> 01:05:21.929 not clear and they didn't development code the director of 01:05:21.929 --> 01:05:22.960 development services 01:05:22.960 --> 01:05:27.440 has the discretion in order to determine what the use is 01:05:27.440 --> 01:05:29.199 and so they determine 01:05:29.199 --> 01:05:32.039 that many times through a reasonable method and the 01:05:32.039 --> 01:05:32.920 reasonable method is 01:05:32.920 --> 01:05:35.510 looking to see if there are multiple meters on the property 01:05:35.510 --> 01:05:36.280 that's something 01:05:36.280 --> 01:05:39.960 that happens quite often right director services 01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:43.650 manal made that you just happen to have her here at the the 01:05:43.650 --> 01:05:45.679 dais okay I want to 01:05:45.679 --> 01:05:49.510 pull us back on topic because what we're talking about is a 01:05:49.510 --> 01:05:50.719 zoning issue tonight 01:05:50.719 --> 01:05:53.929 and the whole place of where we've gotten off to is how 01:05:53.929 --> 01:05:55.119 this the step back 01:05:55.119 --> 01:05:58.750 would be if it was a single family we're not even in here 01:05:58.750 --> 01:06:00.719 talking about a site 01:06:00.719 --> 01:06:04.789 plan building we're talking about zoning only and we're way 01:06:04.789 --> 01:06:05.920 off in what the use 01:06:05.920 --> 01:06:09.079 is next door and how that may or may not trigger 01:06:09.079 --> 01:06:10.320 residential slopes I want to 01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:13.679 bring our Commission back to the issue at hand which is a 01:06:13.679 --> 01:06:15.199 zoning issue and that 01:06:15.199 --> 01:06:19.250 issue can be in more detail when it comes back before us so 01:06:19.250 --> 01:06:21.639 anything else if 01:06:21.639 --> 01:06:24.320 it's about what we just talked about let's try to get done 01:06:24.320 --> 01:06:24.840 if it's a 01:06:24.840 --> 01:06:27.480 different subject 01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:33.039 what is the year the parking requirements between the 01:06:33.039 --> 01:06:34.199 different 01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:39.389 options available for different zoning you know for multif 01:06:39.389 --> 01:06:41.719 amily because on the 01:06:41.719 --> 01:06:46.320 one hand I see the word walkability look at the map and if 01:06:46.320 --> 01:06:47.559 somebody's gonna be in 01:06:47.559 --> 01:06:49.949 the school of music or the school of business or even to go 01:06:49.949 --> 01:06:50.639 to the student 01:06:50.639 --> 01:06:54.179 union building that's not walkability that's either gonna 01:06:54.179 --> 01:06:55.579 be bus or car or 01:06:55.579 --> 01:06:58.889 something and so I'm just wondering you know will the 01:06:58.889 --> 01:07:00.239 parking requirements 01:07:00.239 --> 01:07:07.400 change what size we're kind of same thing we're off on site 01:07:07.400 --> 01:07:08.480 anti stuff and 01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:10.929 we need to stick to zoning because we're about out of time 01:07:10.929 --> 01:07:12.000 have you got a zoning 01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:14.679 question absolutely Commissioner Hitsmith so zoning 01:07:14.679 --> 01:07:17.190 wires because I'm not gonna be here in a little bit I don't 01:07:17.190 --> 01:07:18.719 think I don't see 01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:22.800 when I looked I pinned out Google Earth I think that the 01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:24.320 zoning is what it is 01:07:24.320 --> 01:07:26.550 there's nothing we can do to roll that back but I don't 01:07:26.550 --> 01:07:27.920 find any structure in 01:07:27.920 --> 01:07:31.869 anywhere near that but for if I use their radius that 10 01:07:31.869 --> 01:07:33.480 that 10 mile radius 01:07:33.480 --> 01:07:38.780 I do believe the only thing that would possibly purport to 01:07:38.780 --> 01:07:40.159 be the same size is 01:07:40.159 --> 01:07:44.880 on Fry Street and that's the whatever the name of those 01:07:44.880 --> 01:07:46.400 those apartments are 01:07:46.400 --> 01:07:50.829 but there's nothing else in in in anything in sight in 01:07:50.829 --> 01:07:52.159 Google I mean pan 01:07:52.159 --> 01:07:57.159 out as far as you want so zoning wise I think it's zoned as 01:07:57.159 --> 01:07:57.760 is there's nothing 01:07:57.760 --> 01:08:02.079 we can do about that and I think to up zone any part of 01:08:02.079 --> 01:08:03.239 that so that they can 01:08:03.239 --> 01:08:09.340 then have a structure that's that trumps anything in that 01:08:09.340 --> 01:08:12.280 in that area is is just 01:08:12.280 --> 01:08:15.179 not it's not productive I just don't think I've driven it I 01:08:15.179 --> 01:08:15.719 've driven it four 01:08:15.719 --> 01:08:18.739 or five times and that zoning as is there's nothing you can 01:08:18.739 --> 01:08:19.520 do about that 01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:23.050 but to up zone that that area by the houses and you kind of 01:08:23.050 --> 01:08:24.000 you're going 01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:27.829 downhill and those are two-story apartments all day long 01:08:27.829 --> 01:08:28.399 two-story 01:08:28.399 --> 01:08:30.760 apartments all the way to boardmans and then you got to go 01:08:30.760 --> 01:08:31.600 down the street to 01:08:31.600 --> 01:08:34.119 get to something that purports to be the size even city 01:08:34.119 --> 01:08:35.199 place or whatever that is 01:08:35.199 --> 01:08:38.090 where flow hospital used to be does not it doesn't wear the 01:08:38.090 --> 01:08:39.000 same because it's on 01:08:39.000 --> 01:08:41.289 the slope if they're willing to dig a hole and make it 01:08:41.289 --> 01:08:43.960 lower then that I think 01:08:43.960 --> 01:08:47.840 that that matters but just on its face as it's structured 01:08:47.840 --> 01:08:48.800 it would it would 01:08:48.800 --> 01:08:53.569 absolutely bury anything in that area and it just it would 01:08:53.569 --> 01:08:54.699 it I don't think 01:08:54.699 --> 01:09:00.770 zoning wise to change it that puts it on us versus as is 01:09:00.770 --> 01:09:01.560 that's not our fault 01:09:01.560 --> 01:09:04.439 it'd be in a hundred feet or if it's less than a hundred 01:09:04.439 --> 01:09:05.680 feet well if I read 01:09:05.680 --> 01:09:11.140 that I read the the narrative and if if if they want to put 01:09:11.140 --> 01:09:12.000 a hundred feet on the 01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:15.439 front of that making and that that by code is that that is 01:09:15.439 --> 01:09:16.279 fine but I don't 01:09:16.279 --> 01:09:20.880 think in good faith that it's it's right to then bury the 01:09:20.880 --> 01:09:22.560 house down the hill 01:09:22.560 --> 01:09:26.739 because I'm trying to negotiate with a gun to my head I 01:09:26.739 --> 01:09:27.960 just don't I don't like 01:09:27.960 --> 01:09:30.180 it well I'll throw something at you and maybe it's a 01:09:30.180 --> 01:09:31.359 different point of view 01:09:31.359 --> 01:09:33.899 maybe they're not doing a gun to their head maybe they've 01:09:33.899 --> 01:09:35.159 heard the neighbors 01:09:35.159 --> 01:09:38.789 concerns about it and maybe they've asked for a zone to the 01:09:38.789 --> 01:09:39.680 other to drop 01:09:39.680 --> 01:09:43.039 the building to make it more consistent and it has less of 01:09:43.039 --> 01:09:44.199 an impact over the 01:09:44.199 --> 01:09:47.359 whole neighborhood versus saying we can build what we want 01:09:47.359 --> 01:09:48.279 and we're gonna do a 01:09:48.279 --> 01:09:52.210 hundred foot here versus saying you know what people are 01:09:52.210 --> 01:09:53.560 concerned about it we'll 01:09:53.560 --> 01:09:56.130 we'll drop the thing and help us with some zoning on the 01:09:56.130 --> 01:09:57.239 other and make a less 01:09:57.239 --> 01:10:00.600 impact versus somebody's here saying we're gonna do this 01:10:00.600 --> 01:10:01.479 one way or the other 01:10:01.479 --> 01:10:05.079 so I think for from my point of view I think that's 01:10:05.079 --> 01:10:06.960 something for us to talk 01:10:06.960 --> 01:10:10.539 about as far as the zoning is concerned is whether we want 01:10:10.539 --> 01:10:11.760 to rezone it or not 01:10:11.760 --> 01:10:15.130 and give them an opportunity to do something of a less 01:10:15.130 --> 01:10:16.319 impact versus saying 01:10:16.319 --> 01:10:18.670 we're not going to rezone it and then they go build it and 01:10:18.670 --> 01:10:19.560 it's a hundred feet 01:10:19.560 --> 01:10:21.909 tall and everybody goes well maybe we should have done 01:10:21.909 --> 01:10:23.199 something different and 01:10:23.199 --> 01:10:26.359 so that's just my point of view on that so I want to stick 01:10:26.359 --> 01:10:27.439 with zoning is there 01:10:27.439 --> 01:10:30.600 anything else is owning that we want to talk about on this 01:10:30.600 --> 01:10:31.239 to keep going 01:10:31.239 --> 01:10:35.189 Commissioner Beck thank you chair and I hear what you're 01:10:35.189 --> 01:10:38.840 saying chair but even 01:10:38.840 --> 01:10:42.329 though it's not a 10 or 11 story it's it's proposed to be a 01:10:42.329 --> 01:10:43.920 five story and the 01:10:43.920 --> 01:10:49.479 footprint for this building still is is quite dramatically 01:10:49.479 --> 01:10:51.039 different than what's 01:10:51.039 --> 01:10:55.390 there I don't fully agree with the assessment that says in 01:10:55.390 --> 01:10:56.880 our background 01:10:56.880 --> 01:11:00.039 material that mixed-use character of this area is 01:11:00.039 --> 01:11:01.600 compatible with DCG along 01:11:01.600 --> 01:11:05.539 scripture I mean if you look at this building it sticks out 01:11:05.539 --> 01:11:06.319 even when we do 01:11:06.319 --> 01:11:10.250 the residential slope thing I mean it's a it's a David and 01:11:10.250 --> 01:11:12.119 Goliath thing it may 01:11:12.119 --> 01:11:15.550 technically sound good but visually it's gonna it's gonna 01:11:15.550 --> 01:11:17.039 stick out there and I 01:11:17.039 --> 01:11:22.100 think we're here for zoning issue simply what happened in 01:11:22.100 --> 01:11:24.119 2002 what were the city 01:11:24.119 --> 01:11:27.279 people thinking when they zone that area of scripture DCG 01:11:27.279 --> 01:11:28.560 in the first place I 01:11:28.560 --> 01:11:31.520 think it had something to do with flow we don't get into 01:11:31.520 --> 01:11:32.939 detail on that but the 01:11:32.939 --> 01:11:36.170 fact that flow isn't there anymore it seems like the proper 01:11:36.170 --> 01:11:37.039 thing would have 01:11:37.039 --> 01:11:39.649 been to revert this thing back to dr2 which is probably 01:11:39.649 --> 01:11:40.960 what it was so I'm 01:11:40.960 --> 01:11:45.079 gonna stop there and interrupt just a second to be the 01:11:45.079 --> 01:11:45.920 point of the matter is 01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:51.699 it is zoned that and we're not in a position to down zone 01:11:51.699 --> 01:11:53.039 it and so I think 01:11:53.039 --> 01:11:55.819 we're left with the practicality of that is what the zoning 01:11:55.819 --> 01:11:56.680 is there and the 01:11:56.680 --> 01:12:00.039 piece next to it or what are we or aren't gonna do with 01:12:00.039 --> 01:12:03.609 that and I was gonna build up to it but I'll go ahead okay 01:12:03.609 --> 01:12:03.920 we're short on time 01:12:03.920 --> 01:12:06.369 and I know we still have a whole nother item we haven't got 01:12:06.369 --> 01:12:07.239 to and it's almost 01:12:07.239 --> 01:12:10.710 630 right our options are to approve it and they build this 01:12:10.710 --> 01:12:11.960 thing or we deny it 01:12:11.960 --> 01:12:15.520 and they build the monstrosity everybody's worried about 01:12:15.520 --> 01:12:16.239 but I think 01:12:16.239 --> 01:12:19.880 there is an option that we need to bring up and it's called 01:12:19.880 --> 01:12:21.359 that I would approve 01:12:21.359 --> 01:12:25.000 it with an amendment to it to recommend approval subject to 01:12:25.000 --> 01:12:26.439 conditions with a 01:12:26.439 --> 01:12:32.510 mixed-use residential overlay that's in the DCC DDC and I 01:12:32.510 --> 01:12:33.079 think it's something 01:12:33.079 --> 01:12:35.689 that will serve both purposes allow somebody to build 01:12:35.689 --> 01:12:37.520 something there but at 01:12:37.520 --> 01:12:40.760 a level that's compatible for that neighborhood that the 01:12:40.760 --> 01:12:41.460 residents can 01:12:41.460 --> 01:12:46.020 accept and yet we can still have some population so if we 01:12:46.020 --> 01:12:47.359 don't have time to 01:12:47.359 --> 01:12:50.569 discuss that further I would like to bring that up well I 01:12:50.569 --> 01:12:51.359 think you might 01:12:51.359 --> 01:12:54.619 find some consensus to at least from me as a commissioner 01:12:54.619 --> 01:12:55.880 to talk about that in 01:12:55.880 --> 01:13:00.510 our in our next meeting so Julie would you like to continue 01:13:00.510 --> 01:13:01.079 on your 01:13:01.079 --> 01:13:14.039 going or yeah I'm gonna announce I'm gonna have to recuse 01:13:14.039 --> 01:13:14.800 myself from this 01:13:14.800 --> 01:13:17.960 I'm an and for those that are listening in our public 01:13:17.960 --> 01:13:19.159 meeting in council 01:13:19.159 --> 01:13:24.670 chambers we're gonna run 15 minutes 15 minutes late so we 01:13:24.670 --> 01:13:26.039 will try to get our 01:13:26.039 --> 01:13:30.920 meeting reconvened and starting council chambers about 01:13:30.920 --> 01:13:33.720 hopefully about 645 and 01:13:33.720 --> 01:13:36.670 I'm going to turn the meeting over to the vice chair 01:13:36.670 --> 01:13:38.119 Commissioner Taylor at 01:13:38.119 --> 01:13:48.119 this time thank you chair so now we're going to item FR 16 01:13:48.479 --> 01:13:55.649 residential reply and blocks one two block B of Hale Est 01:13:55.649 --> 01:13:56.399 ates and vice chair 01:13:56.399 --> 01:13:59.819 Taylor I would ask legal to chime in and give us some 01:13:59.819 --> 01:14:01.560 discussion points as it 01:14:01.560 --> 01:14:07.119 relates to this at reply the interest in this particular 01:14:07.119 --> 01:14:08.439 item and so I wanted to 01:14:08.439 --> 01:14:12.439 go over some legal points with you all on the Commission I 01:14:12.439 --> 01:14:13.840 've received a lot of 01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:17.489 questions especially that are legal oriented regarding this 01:14:17.489 --> 01:14:18.399 item so I just 01:14:18.399 --> 01:14:21.229 want to put it out there on the record so that we're all 01:14:21.229 --> 01:14:22.199 aware of what our 01:14:22.199 --> 01:14:27.279 position is the first question was why is this replat on 01:14:27.279 --> 01:14:29.279 not on consent agenda 01:14:29.279 --> 01:14:32.140 and why does it require a public hearing and the answer to 01:14:32.140 --> 01:14:33.319 that is that the local 01:14:33.319 --> 01:14:36.560 government code does require a residential replat to have a 01:14:36.560 --> 01:14:37.000 public 01:14:37.000 --> 01:14:41.329 hearing it used to previously in a previous version of the 01:14:41.329 --> 01:14:42.800 statute require 01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:47.529 or allow for a 20% objection trigger I don't I don't know 01:14:47.529 --> 01:14:49.039 if you all recall but 01:14:49.039 --> 01:14:56.069 on on zoning on zoning items you have that 20% objection 01:14:56.069 --> 01:14:57.079 and it triggers a 01:14:57.079 --> 01:15:02.539 super majority requirement at council this trigger was a 20 01:15:02.539 --> 01:15:03.359 % objection that 01:15:03.359 --> 01:15:10.210 triggered a sort of a method for neighbors to object in 01:15:10.210 --> 01:15:11.460 writing and if 01:15:11.460 --> 01:15:18.649 66% of those objected then the item would not be able to be 01:15:18.649 --> 01:15:19.880 passed that was 01:15:19.880 --> 01:15:22.710 found to be unconstitutional by the Fort Worth Court of 01:15:22.710 --> 01:15:24.840 Appeals and that portion 01:15:24.840 --> 01:15:28.800 was removed the objection portion but they kept the public 01:15:28.800 --> 01:15:30.159 hearing portion in 01:15:30.159 --> 01:15:34.079 the statute so it's a public hearing without a real 01:15:34.079 --> 01:15:35.680 consequence or a way for 01:15:35.680 --> 01:15:41.520 neighbors to move forward through objection however this is 01:15:41.520 --> 01:15:43.119 a plat so the 01:15:43.119 --> 01:15:46.279 the law does state that you have very little discretion 01:15:46.279 --> 01:15:47.159 when you review a 01:15:47.159 --> 01:15:51.510 plat even a replat and what the law states is that so long 01:15:51.510 --> 01:15:52.720 as it meets all 01:15:52.720 --> 01:15:55.550 the requirements of state law and meets the technical 01:15:55.550 --> 01:15:56.920 requirements of the city 01:15:56.920 --> 01:16:01.659 then we cannot deny it because it's a ministerial not a 01:16:01.659 --> 01:16:03.520 discretionary type 01:16:03.520 --> 01:16:08.920 action so I wanted you all to be aware that there's very 01:16:08.920 --> 01:16:09.600 little room you can 01:16:09.600 --> 01:16:13.300 look at your job is to double-check staff to make sure that 01:16:13.300 --> 01:16:14.319 it did meet all 01:16:14.319 --> 01:16:17.350 the technical requirements as they present them to you but 01:16:17.350 --> 01:16:18.279 you can't really 01:16:18.279 --> 01:16:22.880 look at anything beyond that when it comes to a plat the 01:16:22.880 --> 01:16:24.399 other item that I 01:16:24.399 --> 01:16:29.779 wanted to talk about was this restrictive covenant issue 01:16:29.779 --> 01:16:30.800 and I know 01:16:30.800 --> 01:16:34.329 last time we had talked on the record and I let you know 01:16:34.329 --> 01:16:35.560 that restrictive 01:16:35.560 --> 01:16:39.050 covenants we cannot enforce them as a government body the 01:16:39.050 --> 01:16:39.920 only person or the 01:16:39.920 --> 01:16:42.359 only city that can do that in the state of Texas is Houston 01:16:42.359 --> 01:16:43.800 they were given this 01:16:43.800 --> 01:16:48.750 special authority to do that but we can't in fact case law 01:16:48.750 --> 01:16:52.279 shows that we the 01:16:52.279 --> 01:16:56.869 platting is completely irrelevant to the restrictive 01:16:56.869 --> 01:16:58.920 covenant and the platting is 01:16:58.920 --> 01:17:03.060 not a properly plotted law does not affect any kind of 01:17:03.060 --> 01:17:05.239 amendment or removal 01:17:05.239 --> 01:17:11.310 of a restrictive covenant for those purposes because we 01:17:11.310 --> 01:17:12.399 were able to act 01:17:12.399 --> 01:17:15.369 outside of that and just look at the application that's 01:17:15.369 --> 01:17:17.720 before us we moved in 01:17:17.720 --> 01:17:22.390 that direction last time between last time and this time I 01:17:22.390 --> 01:17:23.640 did just out of 01:17:23.640 --> 01:17:26.210 sort of a gesture to the neighbors look at their 01:17:26.210 --> 01:17:28.079 restrictive covenant that they 01:17:28.079 --> 01:17:33.210 were provided to us and I did note that I do not believe 01:17:33.210 --> 01:17:35.439 that it is a violation 01:17:35.439 --> 01:17:38.600 of the restrictive covenant the way that the wording is 01:17:38.600 --> 01:17:40.520 written there's a section 01:17:40.520 --> 01:17:44.029 basically saying that it cannot be subdivided if the 01:17:44.029 --> 01:17:45.560 resulting lots are 01:17:45.560 --> 01:17:50.920 less than an acre or if they're less than 150 feet frontage 01:17:50.920 --> 01:17:52.880 and both of these 01:17:52.880 --> 01:17:57.130 lots separately meet those requirements so in my legal 01:17:57.130 --> 01:17:59.159 opinion there was no even 01:17:59.159 --> 01:18:01.920 though I can't give outside legal advice I'm giving the 01:18:01.920 --> 01:18:03.279 advice to you there was 01:18:03.279 --> 01:18:06.560 no violation of those restrictive covenants in my view 01:18:06.560 --> 01:18:07.760 there's also a 01:18:07.760 --> 01:18:10.949 provision where it has to be used for residential use since 01:18:10.949 --> 01:18:11.520 we're not 01:18:11.520 --> 01:18:14.680 rezoning it there is no effect to the restrictive covenants 01:18:14.680 --> 01:18:15.439 that are currently 01:18:15.439 --> 01:18:20.739 existing on the property another item that was requested a 01:18:20.739 --> 01:18:22.239 lot was information 01:18:22.239 --> 01:18:25.170 concerning the dam that's on the property the restricted 01:18:25.170 --> 01:18:26.159 covenant actually 01:18:26.159 --> 01:18:29.489 says if the dam is existing on private property that the 01:18:29.489 --> 01:18:30.880 other neighbors have 01:18:30.880 --> 01:18:36.170 no interest or access to the dam however despite that I did 01:18:36.170 --> 01:18:38.039 look into it and it 01:18:38.039 --> 01:18:42.239 looks like when the plat was originally done in the 1960s 01:18:42.239 --> 01:18:43.439 the dam was a very 01:18:43.439 --> 01:18:47.210 much a part of the drainage for the subdivision and in fact 01:18:47.210 --> 01:18:48.479 the street 01:18:48.479 --> 01:18:53.460 drainage goes all into that particular retaining area and 01:18:53.460 --> 01:18:55.000 it is in our drain 01:18:55.000 --> 01:18:59.479 adjudgment so any kind of attempted removal of that dam 01:18:59.479 --> 01:19:01.000 that's going to have 01:19:01.000 --> 01:19:03.460 to go through the city and if it affects the drainage they 01:19:03.460 --> 01:19:04.319 would have to show 01:19:04.319 --> 01:19:08.439 some sort of major mitigation downstream that would provide 01:19:08.439 --> 01:19:11.119 a replacement in lieu 01:19:11.119 --> 01:19:13.680 of having that dam in that location in addition to that 01:19:13.680 --> 01:19:14.579 there is it what's 01:19:14.579 --> 01:19:18.300 called a riparian buffer as you are aware what those are so 01:19:18.300 --> 01:19:19.439 any disturbance 01:19:19.439 --> 01:19:23.630 on the perimeter of the water body is going to require also 01:19:23.630 --> 01:19:24.840 a permit or an a 01:19:24.840 --> 01:19:28.649 essay that would come before this Commission so I don't 01:19:28.649 --> 01:19:30.800 know to what extent 01:19:30.800 --> 01:19:33.380 we may share that in the regular session I think we have 01:19:33.380 --> 01:19:37.079 some neighbors here but 01:19:37.079 --> 01:19:39.960 I wanted to go ahead and talk about those legal issues put 01:19:39.960 --> 01:19:40.880 him out there for 01:19:40.880 --> 01:19:43.569 the Commission I wanted to do it in an open session so that 01:19:43.569 --> 01:19:45.039 everybody knows what 01:19:45.039 --> 01:19:47.859 advice that I'm providing to you because I know it's very 01:19:47.859 --> 01:19:48.880 very important for the 01:19:48.880 --> 01:19:54.949 neighbors and given that does anybody have any questions 01:19:54.949 --> 01:19:55.560 Commissioner Roselle 01:19:55.560 --> 01:19:59.479 thank you vice chair we have a letter email from Jason 01:19:59.479 --> 01:20:00.920 Denise Thomas saying 01:20:00.920 --> 01:20:03.909 that they weren't notified what's the repercussion I mean 01:20:03.909 --> 01:20:05.399 that's a state rule 01:20:05.399 --> 01:20:08.159 that they have to be notified if they didn't get notified 01:20:08.159 --> 01:20:08.479 what's the 01:20:08.479 --> 01:20:11.800 consequence of that where's the burden of proof for 01:20:11.800 --> 01:20:12.760 notification I know we 01:20:12.760 --> 01:20:16.710 talked about this a lot because you're back enjoys the 01:20:16.710 --> 01:20:20.760 topic so I'm curious where 01:20:20.760 --> 01:20:22.850 has the city proven that there was a certified notice can 01:20:22.850 --> 01:20:23.359 you tell me more 01:20:23.359 --> 01:20:27.720 about what this is regarding sure if I can dive in just to 01:20:27.720 --> 01:20:28.520 process of 01:20:28.520 --> 01:20:32.270 notification we you know we're all aware on this Commission 01:20:32.270 --> 01:20:33.720 that we have to mail 01:20:33.720 --> 01:20:37.819 out a notice within 200 feet of the request that being said 01:20:37.819 --> 01:20:38.720 we use the tax 01:20:38.720 --> 01:20:41.479 rolls that are provided to us from our Department of 01:20:41.479 --> 01:20:42.880 Technical Services that 01:20:42.880 --> 01:20:47.479 gets those from the from DCOT and then we take those parc 01:20:47.479 --> 01:20:48.760 els they provide us 01:20:48.760 --> 01:20:52.449 those parcels and we use that data so whatever info that we 01:20:52.449 --> 01:20:53.439 do receive now 01:20:53.439 --> 01:20:56.659 there are instances where because those tax rules are 01:20:56.659 --> 01:20:58.159 updated once a year that 01:20:58.159 --> 01:21:01.340 we get that information there is a bit of a lag time so 01:21:01.340 --> 01:21:03.159 when we do send out the 01:21:03.159 --> 01:21:05.739 certified mail let's assume that there's change of 01:21:05.739 --> 01:21:07.039 ownership and it goes to the 01:21:07.039 --> 01:21:11.000 old owner then that is something we've still followed the 01:21:11.000 --> 01:21:11.840 tax roll we've still 01:21:11.840 --> 01:21:14.359 followed what's on DCOT and that does happen occasionally 01:21:14.359 --> 01:21:16.239 so it's not that we 01:21:16.239 --> 01:21:19.840 didn't that we notified in error it's just that we sent 01:21:19.840 --> 01:21:21.000 notice to whatever's 01:21:21.000 --> 01:21:24.710 latest on the record and that being said I think we did 01:21:24.710 --> 01:21:26.319 check and we did see that 01:21:26.319 --> 01:21:29.100 that was sent but not to the most recent property owner so 01:21:29.100 --> 01:21:30.220 if they've been there 01:21:30.220 --> 01:21:34.909 because we update once a year so to speak that is why that 01:21:34.909 --> 01:21:35.840 we received the 01:21:35.840 --> 01:21:40.199 certified tax roll that is why there's sometimes a lag I 01:21:40.199 --> 01:21:40.800 appreciate that 01:21:40.800 --> 01:21:44.090 explanation but wouldn't the address of 3,400 Montecito not 01:21:44.090 --> 01:21:45.960 have changed no but 01:21:45.960 --> 01:21:48.579 the owner the owner address might be different from what 01:21:48.579 --> 01:21:49.960 who's residing there 01:21:49.960 --> 01:21:54.069 so when so just as an example you can have several 01:21:54.069 --> 01:21:56.239 properties and have one 01:21:56.239 --> 01:21:58.930 single address which is either one of those properties or 01:21:58.930 --> 01:21:59.720 it's a separate 01:21:59.720 --> 01:22:03.220 address altogether so there is there are often this is we 01:22:03.220 --> 01:22:04.680 've seen this often not 01:22:04.680 --> 01:22:06.489 just in Denton but in other communities that I've 01:22:06.489 --> 01:22:08.520 experienced where you have the 01:22:08.520 --> 01:22:11.500 ownership address might not be the physical address of the 01:22:11.500 --> 01:22:12.319 site okay thank 01:22:12.319 --> 01:22:18.529 you and it just just as a side matter there there really is 01:22:18.529 --> 01:22:19.680 no defect so long 01:22:19.680 --> 01:22:22.510 as we follow the statute and the statute requires that we 01:22:22.510 --> 01:22:23.359 go by the latest 01:22:23.359 --> 01:22:28.020 certified role so as long as we've done that then even if 01:22:28.020 --> 01:22:29.520 there are some that 01:22:29.520 --> 01:22:33.000 did not get it although we want everybody to be made aware 01:22:33.000 --> 01:22:34.079 and noticed 01:22:34.079 --> 01:22:38.130 it's not going to be a defect or fatal to any vote that we 01:22:38.130 --> 01:22:40.600 have this evening 01:22:40.600 --> 01:22:44.000 the daily per the requirement so we have to put notice 01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:45.239 within the daily as well 01:22:45.239 --> 01:22:49.039 okay thank you Commissioner Sullivan thank you Commissioner 01:22:49.039 --> 01:22:52.239 Roselle what was the last name of the people that you 01:22:52.239 --> 01:22:53.760 mentioned this letters 01:22:53.760 --> 01:22:56.920 from Jason and Denise Thomas's pay is the second letter on 01:22:56.920 --> 01:22:58.239 here is kind of three 01:22:58.239 --> 01:23:02.260 paragraphs there's another one from the bulls to say that 01:23:02.260 --> 01:23:03.399 they were not notified 01:23:03.399 --> 01:23:12.579 either within 200 feet so I don't know again hey the answer 01:23:12.579 --> 01:23:14.000 no and again you 01:23:14.000 --> 01:23:18.119 know sometimes let's work backwards a little bit sometimes 01:23:18.119 --> 01:23:19.640 we do receive the 01:23:19.640 --> 01:23:23.350 certified mail comes back to us where it's not been picked 01:23:23.350 --> 01:23:24.439 up so that that 01:23:24.439 --> 01:23:27.149 has occurred I'm not saying that occurred with this 01:23:27.149 --> 01:23:28.399 specific application 01:23:28.399 --> 01:23:31.279 those are one of the flaws with certified mail which we've 01:23:31.279 --> 01:23:31.800 talked at at 01:23:31.800 --> 01:23:36.079 length about and then secondly what Haley did is she went 01:23:36.079 --> 01:23:36.840 she tried to 01:23:36.840 --> 01:23:40.079 discern what actually came back and where there were disc 01:23:40.079 --> 01:23:41.199 repancies with the 01:23:41.199 --> 01:23:44.359 most recent tax certified tax roll that we have given the 01:23:44.359 --> 01:23:45.680 lag I've just discussed 01:23:45.680 --> 01:23:51.239 and as a result there were some that possibly went to a 01:23:51.239 --> 01:23:53.000 previous owner of the 01:23:53.000 --> 01:23:57.039 property and the intent obviously is to try and notify as 01:23:57.039 --> 01:23:58.159 Jennifer has indicated 01:23:58.159 --> 01:24:03.020 to everybody and to have the most current so unfortunately 01:24:03.020 --> 01:24:03.800 we just and we 01:24:03.800 --> 01:24:07.880 are following the state I just didn't know if there were 01:24:07.880 --> 01:24:09.439 two people or you 01:24:09.439 --> 01:24:13.039 know what have you so look at these two okay thank you 01:24:13.039 --> 01:24:17.699 Commissioner Beck thank you Vice Chair speaking hypoth 01:24:17.699 --> 01:24:19.119 etically just throwing 01:24:19.119 --> 01:24:23.789 information out there for my edification when we go in and 01:24:23.789 --> 01:24:25.520 we have to cast a boat 01:24:25.520 --> 01:24:32.079 on this it seems like the concern of some citizens is that 01:24:32.079 --> 01:24:34.159 if we approve that 01:24:34.159 --> 01:24:40.229 replant that the condition of that dam will deteriorate and 01:24:40.229 --> 01:24:40.939 affect the 01:24:40.939 --> 01:24:45.369 character of the neighborhood but it seems clear that that 01:24:45.369 --> 01:24:46.079 has to be 01:24:46.079 --> 01:24:48.979 maintained as part of the drainage there so that's a 01:24:48.979 --> 01:24:50.680 concern that's probably gone 01:24:50.680 --> 01:24:56.720 by the wayside I'm thinking I empathize on both sides the 01:24:56.720 --> 01:24:57.439 right the proper owner 01:24:57.439 --> 01:25:01.399 to split his property and the concern of the area residents 01:25:01.399 --> 01:25:03.000 there that move there 01:25:03.000 --> 01:25:06.020 for a purpose enjoy the benefits of that lake and all that 01:25:06.020 --> 01:25:07.479 but it seems like 01:25:07.479 --> 01:25:12.119 technically and legally we you know we we can't if we vote 01:25:12.119 --> 01:25:13.760 in favor of one or 01:25:13.760 --> 01:25:19.250 the other at that point they take their concerns to a court 01:25:19.250 --> 01:25:22.079 is that correct you 01:25:22.079 --> 01:25:26.680 mean if we were to approve it right or deny it or to my 01:25:26.680 --> 01:25:27.840 party or the other then 01:25:27.840 --> 01:25:32.640 their only recourse at that point would be right if we deny 01:25:32.640 --> 01:25:34.199 it then we're 01:25:34.199 --> 01:25:38.560 potentially at risk for a writ of mandamus if we approve it 01:25:38.560 --> 01:25:39.159 then the 01:25:39.159 --> 01:25:41.989 neighbors may sue the other neighbor I don't think the city 01:25:41.989 --> 01:25:42.760 is liable for 01:25:42.760 --> 01:25:45.760 okay thank you 01:25:58.800 --> 01:26:00.369 Commissioner Sullivan is the is the dam maintained by the 01:26:00.369 --> 01:26:04.159 homeowners association 01:26:04.159 --> 01:26:07.800 or the owner there is no homeowners Association in this 01:26:07.800 --> 01:26:08.720 case so the owner 01:26:08.720 --> 01:26:11.550 which private property the owners been maintaining it and 01:26:11.550 --> 01:26:12.479 that's really the 01:26:12.479 --> 01:26:15.079 reason I think he said last time in the record that he 01:26:15.079 --> 01:26:16.319 wanted to sell because 01:26:16.319 --> 01:26:19.319 there's a gentleman behind him that would like to maintain 01:26:19.319 --> 01:26:20.000 it because I 01:26:20.000 --> 01:26:22.250 guess his grandchildren playing back there something like 01:26:22.250 --> 01:26:23.119 that but whoever 01:26:23.119 --> 01:26:25.989 gains ownership of it will be responsible for the 01:26:25.989 --> 01:26:27.079 maintenance of it 01:26:27.079 --> 01:26:30.449 and we would be the responsible for enforcing I thought 01:26:30.449 --> 01:26:30.960 that was still part 01:26:30.960 --> 01:26:35.039 of Southridge that's not it's part of yeah for strange it's 01:26:35.039 --> 01:26:37.000 for strange I'm 01:26:37.000 --> 01:26:43.640 sorry for actually Montecito actually yes all right and 01:26:43.640 --> 01:26:44.359 with that we will 01:26:44.359 --> 01:26:47.300 close our work session or end our work session and we will 01:26:47.300 --> 01:26:48.319 reconvene in five 01:26:48.319 --> 01:26:53.680 minutes in the council chambers and the time at six we will 01:26:53.680 --> 01:26:54.760 close our work 01:26:54.760 --> 01:26:57.800 session at 640 01:27:07.000 --> 01:27:23.680 good evening and welcome to the city of Denton planning and 01:27:23.680 --> 01:27:24.439 zoning Commission 01:27:24.439 --> 01:27:29.479 meeting for March the 8th 2017 this meeting has been duly 01:27:29.479 --> 01:27:30.359 posted and a 01:27:30.359 --> 01:27:33.850 quorum is present and I'm gonna call our meeting to order 01:27:33.850 --> 01:27:35.520 at 650 our first 01:27:35.520 --> 01:27:37.739 order of business will be to stand and give the pledge the 01:27:37.739 --> 01:27:38.439 US and the Texas 01:27:38.439 --> 01:27:40.640 flag 01:28:05.520 --> 01:28:14.960 before we get started I apologize that we're running a 01:28:14.960 --> 01:28:17.199 little bit late we 01:28:17.199 --> 01:28:20.470 obviously by the room count and also in our work session we 01:28:20.470 --> 01:28:21.600 've got a couple of 01:28:21.600 --> 01:28:24.229 items with a lot of discussion and took a little longer in 01:28:24.229 --> 01:28:25.039 work session so 01:28:25.039 --> 01:28:28.659 apologize that we ran late to get started this evening in 01:28:28.659 --> 01:28:29.960 that vein we 01:28:29.960 --> 01:28:32.590 also have one change to the order that will announce at the 01:28:32.590 --> 01:28:33.439 beginning of our 01:28:33.439 --> 01:28:37.439 meeting on our public hearing section our item a is going 01:28:37.439 --> 01:28:38.720 to be moved to the 01:28:38.720 --> 01:28:43.869 very end of our meeting after item E so we will go in order 01:28:43.869 --> 01:28:45.159 of B C D E and then 01:28:45.159 --> 01:28:52.939 come back and finish with a with that announcement I'm 01:28:52.939 --> 01:28:55.199 going to move us on to 01:28:55.199 --> 01:28:59.819 our item 2 on our agenda which will be consider approval of 01:28:59.819 --> 01:29:01.199 the planning and 01:29:01.199 --> 01:29:05.739 zoning Commission meetings minutes and I will take those 01:29:05.739 --> 01:29:07.840 two in separate motions 01:29:07.840 --> 01:29:11.840 Commissioner Taylor I move approval of the February 15 2017 01:29:11.840 --> 01:29:12.279 minutes 01:29:12.279 --> 01:29:18.989 Commissioner back second any discussion or comments seeing 01:29:18.989 --> 01:29:20.159 none I'll call for a 01:29:20.159 --> 01:29:22.640 vote on board 01:29:31.239 --> 01:29:34.420 issue on the February 15th meeting because he was not here 01:29:34.420 --> 01:29:37.439 for the special 01:29:37.439 --> 01:29:39.920 call meeting 01:29:42.119 --> 01:29:44.729 I'm sorry that special called I'm sorry that was I was I 01:29:44.729 --> 01:29:46.880 chose the wrong date to 01:29:46.880 --> 01:29:46.880 move withdraw my motion withdraw your motion I'll move 01:29:46.880 --> 01:29:54.479 approval on 15th 01:29:54.479 --> 01:30:00.609 Commissioner Ellis I will second second any discussion 01:30:00.609 --> 01:30:02.520 seeing none I'll call for 01:30:02.520 --> 01:30:05.199 a vote on the board 01:30:25.479 --> 01:30:29.100 motion carries 4-0 with two recuse Commissioner Taylor try 01:30:29.100 --> 01:30:33.600 this again I 01:30:33.600 --> 01:30:33.600 move approval of the February 22nd 2017 minutes okay you 01:30:33.600 --> 01:30:38.720 sure you can do that 01:30:38.720 --> 01:30:38.720 okay good Commissioner Beck second okay we have a first and 01:30:38.720 --> 01:30:44.399 second for approval 01:30:44.399 --> 01:30:58.640 any discussion seeing none a call for a vote on board 01:30:58.640 --> 01:31:09.880 motion carries 4-0 with two 01:31:09.880 --> 01:31:19.720 recuse now move us to our consent agenda Commissioner Beck 01:31:19.720 --> 01:31:22.399 okay Commissioner 01:31:22.399 --> 01:31:26.880 Roselle second okay we have a we have a first and a second 01:31:26.880 --> 01:31:28.680 for approval any 01:31:28.680 --> 01:31:42.390 discussion seeing none will call for a vote on board motion 01:31:42.390 --> 01:31:51.079 carries 6-0 that 01:31:51.079 --> 01:31:55.159 will move us to our items of individual consideration and I 01:31:55.159 --> 01:31:57.159 will call on Haley 01:31:57.159 --> 01:32:00.359 for presentation 01:32:19.640 --> 01:32:24.140 good evening this is case ADP 1620 from the Mission Street 01:32:24.140 --> 01:32:26.079 offices the request 01:32:26.079 --> 01:32:29.420 is consider approval approval of an alternative development 01:32:29.420 --> 01:32:30.039 plan for an 01:32:30.039 --> 01:32:32.920 initial phase of a proposed office park development on 01:32:32.920 --> 01:32:35.520 approximately 1.65 acres 01:32:35.520 --> 01:32:38.680 the property is located at the corner of Fort Worth Drive 01:32:38.680 --> 01:32:40.399 and Mission Street you 01:32:40.399 --> 01:32:43.689 can see outlined in yellow the initial phase that is part 01:32:43.689 --> 01:32:44.720 of this ADP request 01:32:44.720 --> 01:32:49.000 the area outlined in red represents all three parcels that 01:32:49.000 --> 01:32:50.359 are intended to be 01:32:50.359 --> 01:32:54.859 involved in the full development currently the property is 01:32:54.859 --> 01:32:55.359 zoned 01:32:55.359 --> 01:32:58.869 community mixed-use general the future land use for this 01:32:58.869 --> 01:32:59.880 area is community 01:32:59.880 --> 01:33:03.109 mixed-use which allows for predominantly commercial uses 01:33:03.109 --> 01:33:04.279 that are clustered in 01:33:04.279 --> 01:33:07.810 close proximity as well as a mix of institutional and 01:33:07.810 --> 01:33:10.039 residential uses this 01:33:10.039 --> 01:33:13.680 represents the site plan for the development you can see 01:33:13.680 --> 01:33:14.680 the phase that 01:33:14.680 --> 01:33:18.069 we're looking at here involves three buildings as well as 01:33:18.069 --> 01:33:19.119 an area off to the 01:33:19.119 --> 01:33:24.279 side that is going to be used as a detention pond so as 01:33:24.279 --> 01:33:25.880 part of this ADP 01:33:25.880 --> 01:33:29.039 request the applicant has multiple areas of the Denton 01:33:29.039 --> 01:33:30.359 development code site 01:33:30.359 --> 01:33:33.300 design standards that they are requesting to deviate from 01:33:33.300 --> 01:33:34.000 the first of 01:33:34.000 --> 01:33:38.079 those is a requirement for non-residential buildings that 01:33:38.079 --> 01:33:38.760 the primary 01:33:38.760 --> 01:33:41.250 orientation of the building be towards the street the 01:33:41.250 --> 01:33:42.399 intent of this is to 01:33:42.399 --> 01:33:44.279 provide buildings that present well to the street with 01:33:44.279 --> 01:33:44.920 clearly defined 01:33:44.920 --> 01:33:49.909 entrances for vehicular and pedestrian traffic so as you 01:33:49.909 --> 01:33:51.359 can see looking back 01:33:51.359 --> 01:33:54.039 at the site plan these buildings are intended to be 01:33:54.039 --> 01:33:55.399 oriented inwards towards 01:33:55.399 --> 01:33:58.560 this campus feel that they're trying to create with the 01:33:58.560 --> 01:33:59.920 larger development so 01:33:59.920 --> 01:34:04.300 especially the buildings on lot one and lot two would have 01:34:04.300 --> 01:34:05.680 their rear and side 01:34:05.680 --> 01:34:11.750 spacing towards the street in this case the applicant 01:34:11.750 --> 01:34:13.199 provided elevations 01:34:13.199 --> 01:34:15.960 for the first building the one that was located with its 01:34:15.960 --> 01:34:17.000 rear-facing Fort Worth 01:34:17.000 --> 01:34:20.399 Drive so we can see here the front elevation on the top 01:34:20.399 --> 01:34:21.359 that would be 01:34:21.359 --> 01:34:24.310 facing towards the inside of the development as well as one 01:34:24.310 --> 01:34:24.920 of the side 01:34:24.920 --> 01:34:29.100 elevations and on the second page we can see the rear 01:34:29.100 --> 01:34:31.239 elevation they are proposing 01:34:31.239 --> 01:34:34.250 architectural enhancements it's a masonry constructed 01:34:34.250 --> 01:34:35.399 building and they're 01:34:35.399 --> 01:34:38.630 using windows and awnings and some repeating architectural 01:34:38.630 --> 01:34:39.319 features to 01:34:39.319 --> 01:34:45.390 provide visual interest and you know it visibly interesting 01:34:45.390 --> 01:34:46.359 building from the 01:34:46.359 --> 01:34:50.840 street rather than just a solid wall we can also see from 01:34:50.840 --> 01:34:52.680 their landscape plan 01:34:52.680 --> 01:34:56.380 they intend to provide at least five shrubs in this area as 01:34:56.380 --> 01:34:57.000 well as a 01:34:57.000 --> 01:35:00.819 sidewalk there would also be sidewalk running along Fort 01:35:00.819 --> 01:35:01.680 Worth Drive here that 01:35:01.680 --> 01:35:04.539 they're providing connectivity to throughout the 01:35:04.539 --> 01:35:06.720 development as well one 01:35:06.720 --> 01:35:09.600 of their other requested deviations is from the parking 01:35:09.600 --> 01:35:11.680 requirements so for a 01:35:11.680 --> 01:35:14.590 general office use as they're proposing here the DDC 01:35:14.590 --> 01:35:16.239 requires one space for every 01:35:16.239 --> 01:35:20.409 450 square feet of floor area that would be a total of 30 01:35:20.409 --> 01:35:22.119 or 27 spaces for the 01:35:22.119 --> 01:35:24.949 three buildings that they're proposing at this point the 01:35:24.949 --> 01:35:26.720 site plan shows that 01:35:26.720 --> 01:35:30.020 they're intending to provide 39 spaces so 12 over what is 01:35:30.020 --> 01:35:31.039 required there and 01:35:31.039 --> 01:35:34.550 that triggers the requirement in sub chapter 13 that excess 01:35:34.550 --> 01:35:35.560 parking above the 01:35:35.560 --> 01:35:39.750 required number be constructed of pervious surface in lieu 01:35:39.750 --> 01:35:40.800 of providing 01:35:40.800 --> 01:35:43.960 pervious surface for those extra spaces the applicant is 01:35:43.960 --> 01:35:45.159 proposing to provide a 01:35:45.159 --> 01:35:48.319 detention pond here off to the side of these buildings that 01:35:48.319 --> 01:35:48.720 would be 01:35:48.720 --> 01:35:51.539 constructed to I swim standards so when they get to the 01:35:51.539 --> 01:35:53.439 final plotting phase the 01:35:53.439 --> 01:35:56.869 exact calculations for the volume and sizing of that pond 01:35:56.869 --> 01:35:58.079 will be determined 01:35:58.079 --> 01:36:00.810 and the pond will have to be designed to hold the water 01:36:00.810 --> 01:36:02.279 quality volume generated 01:36:02.279 --> 01:36:06.840 by this parking lot and the excess spaces for 24 hours 01:36:06.840 --> 01:36:08.479 because the overall 01:36:08.479 --> 01:36:12.039 size of the full office park campus that they've shown us 01:36:12.039 --> 01:36:13.439 is over 40,000 square 01:36:13.439 --> 01:36:16.380 feet even at this initial phase we're trying to make sure 01:36:16.380 --> 01:36:17.159 that the site 01:36:17.159 --> 01:36:19.560 addresses all of the large-scale development standards in 01:36:19.560 --> 01:36:20.079 the Denton 01:36:20.079 --> 01:36:22.239 Development Code which are triggered when a development is 01:36:22.239 --> 01:36:23.340 over 40,000 square 01:36:23.340 --> 01:36:26.600 feet two of the requirements there the applicant is 01:36:26.600 --> 01:36:28.319 proposing to deviate from 01:36:28.319 --> 01:36:32.090 one is the requirement for a masonry wall around or on any 01:36:32.090 --> 01:36:33.439 common boundary line 01:36:33.439 --> 01:36:36.930 between the development and a single-family property and 01:36:36.930 --> 01:36:37.760 the second is 01:36:37.760 --> 01:36:40.640 that mechanical equipment be located greater than a hundred 01:36:40.640 --> 01:36:41.319 feet from any 01:36:41.319 --> 01:36:45.340 residential property in this case the property adjoining 01:36:45.340 --> 01:36:46.560 this to the south 01:36:46.560 --> 01:36:49.399 does have a single-family residence on it and another 01:36:49.399 --> 01:36:50.760 requirement within the 01:36:50.760 --> 01:36:54.899 DDC is that a type C buffer which is a 15 foot planted area 01:36:54.899 --> 01:36:56.279 with six trees and 01:36:56.279 --> 01:36:59.439 25 shrubs per 100 feet of length be provided between a 01:36:59.439 --> 01:37:00.119 commercial and 01:37:00.119 --> 01:37:04.510 single-family use in this case that because it is a large- 01:37:04.510 --> 01:37:05.479 scale development 01:37:05.479 --> 01:37:08.390 would require that buffer as well as that masonry wall the 01:37:08.390 --> 01:37:09.479 applicant has 01:37:09.479 --> 01:37:12.069 proposed instead of providing the wall to provide the 01:37:12.069 --> 01:37:13.119 required buffer and 01:37:13.119 --> 01:37:16.279 intensify it with at this case their calculation showed 01:37:16.279 --> 01:37:17.439 five additional trees 01:37:17.439 --> 01:37:22.590 and 19 additional shrubs in lieu of that wall I've circled 01:37:22.590 --> 01:37:24.079 in red here an area 01:37:24.079 --> 01:37:27.680 where mechanical equipment primarily air conditioning units 01:37:27.680 --> 01:37:28.760 would be located 01:37:28.760 --> 01:37:32.119 within approximately 30 feet of the property line with that 01:37:32.119 --> 01:37:32.680 single-family 01:37:32.680 --> 01:37:34.960 residential use so well within that hundred feet limb 01:37:34.960 --> 01:37:36.800 hundred foot limit and 01:37:36.800 --> 01:37:40.090 the applicant has proposed to screen all of that equipment 01:37:40.090 --> 01:37:40.399 with 01:37:40.399 --> 01:37:43.060 architecturally compatible materials and plantings which 01:37:43.060 --> 01:37:44.060 were not specified at 01:37:44.060 --> 01:37:50.130 this time this ADP does satisfy the criteria for approval 01:37:50.130 --> 01:37:50.560 of an ADP 01:37:50.560 --> 01:37:55.350 outlined in subchapter 13 it is a logical location at this 01:37:55.350 --> 01:37:56.520 hard corner of 01:37:56.520 --> 01:38:01.489 highway and Mission Street for an office park campus as 01:38:01.489 --> 01:38:02.399 well as it's 01:38:02.399 --> 01:38:06.050 compatible with that community mixed-use future land use 01:38:06.050 --> 01:38:08.199 designation so staff 01:38:08.199 --> 01:38:10.960 does recommend all of the recommend approval of this ADP 01:38:10.960 --> 01:38:11.520 with several 01:38:11.520 --> 01:38:14.359 conditions the first of those is that the development 01:38:14.359 --> 01:38:15.359 substantially conformed 01:38:15.359 --> 01:38:19.079 to the attached site plan the second is that we require it 01:38:19.079 --> 01:38:20.000 substantially comply 01:38:20.000 --> 01:38:24.010 with the landscape plan with two modifications the first of 01:38:24.010 --> 01:38:25.119 those is in 01:38:25.119 --> 01:38:28.760 front of the building on Fort Worth Drive in lieu of 01:38:28.760 --> 01:38:30.439 strictly these shrubs 01:38:30.439 --> 01:38:34.489 shown here staff recommends they provide a five foot width 01:38:34.489 --> 01:38:35.479 of planting area that 01:38:35.479 --> 01:38:38.760 could feature tall grasses as well as the shrubs to provide 01:38:38.760 --> 01:38:39.640 variation and 01:38:39.640 --> 01:38:43.399 soften the transition between the street and the building 01:38:43.399 --> 01:38:45.399 frontage the second 01:38:45.399 --> 01:38:49.069 requirement is that we recommend a six foot opaque masonry 01:38:49.069 --> 01:38:50.399 screening wall be 01:38:50.399 --> 01:38:53.560 provided on that southern boundary in addition to the 01:38:53.560 --> 01:38:54.600 required buffer the 01:38:54.600 --> 01:38:58.609 intent of the requirement for a masonry wall is to provide 01:38:58.609 --> 01:39:00.279 a permanent screening 01:39:00.279 --> 01:39:04.319 and buffer between two seemingly incompatible uses in this 01:39:04.319 --> 01:39:05.119 case because 01:39:05.119 --> 01:39:08.409 this is smaller buildings broken up over this larger lot 01:39:08.409 --> 01:39:10.039 staff felt that six feet 01:39:10.039 --> 01:39:13.329 would could be sufficient as the screening rather than 01:39:13.329 --> 01:39:15.039 eight feet but the 01:39:15.039 --> 01:39:17.300 landscaping buffer would not provide that screening year- 01:39:17.300 --> 01:39:18.039 round that was the 01:39:18.039 --> 01:39:22.100 intent of this so we recommend the wall be added back in as 01:39:22.100 --> 01:39:24.079 part of this the 01:39:24.079 --> 01:39:26.239 other recommendations are that the screening for the 01:39:26.239 --> 01:39:27.840 mechanical equipment be 01:39:27.840 --> 01:39:30.210 constructed of masonry materials that are compatible with 01:39:30.210 --> 01:39:30.920 the building's 01:39:30.920 --> 01:39:34.409 design and in addition to that we recommend planting of shr 01:39:34.409 --> 01:39:35.199 ubs and tall 01:39:35.199 --> 01:39:37.600 grasses around the perimeter of those screening walls to 01:39:37.600 --> 01:39:38.680 add an extra layer of 01:39:38.680 --> 01:39:42.319 buffering between those mechanical equipment and the single 01:39:42.319 --> 01:39:43.119 -family homes 01:39:43.119 --> 01:39:47.289 staff also recommends that building one as was identified 01:39:47.289 --> 01:39:48.520 here substantially 01:39:48.520 --> 01:39:51.699 comply with the elevations that were shown as well because 01:39:51.699 --> 01:39:52.560 we did not receive 01:39:52.560 --> 01:39:55.920 elevations for buildings two and three we recommend that 01:39:55.920 --> 01:39:57.479 those be constructed of 01:39:57.479 --> 01:40:00.210 masonry materials that are similar in design and 01:40:00.210 --> 01:40:01.960 construction to building one 01:40:01.960 --> 01:40:05.439 that we saw here so as to create a cohesive development 01:40:05.439 --> 01:40:05.840 throughout this 01:40:05.840 --> 01:40:09.340 office park we also recommend that any future phases be 01:40:09.340 --> 01:40:11.000 uniform as it relates 01:40:11.000 --> 01:40:13.840 to the frontage setbacks building materials and landscaping 01:40:13.840 --> 01:40:14.479 used on Fort 01:40:14.479 --> 01:40:17.039 Worth Drive to further that cohesive development as the 01:40:17.039 --> 01:40:18.119 future phases come in 01:40:18.119 --> 01:40:23.489 and at that this time I can answer any questions you might 01:40:23.489 --> 01:40:25.039 have I have a 01:40:25.039 --> 01:40:29.760 question on item three the masonry screening for the 01:40:29.760 --> 01:40:32.079 mechanical equipment is 01:40:32.079 --> 01:40:35.989 there a concern that a masonry wall may affect the 01:40:35.989 --> 01:40:38.279 performance and efficiency of 01:40:38.279 --> 01:40:43.890 those air conditioning equipment and maybe could look at 01:40:43.890 --> 01:40:44.960 just doing shrubs 01:40:44.960 --> 01:40:48.359 and grasses screening so that those can work efficiently 01:40:48.359 --> 01:40:49.760 that's not something 01:40:49.760 --> 01:40:52.739 that we looked at specifically we didn't get into the exact 01:40:52.739 --> 01:40:53.479 design of that 01:40:53.479 --> 01:40:55.569 screening around those I believe the applicant is here 01:40:55.569 --> 01:40:56.159 though if you would 01:40:56.159 --> 01:40:58.989 like to address some of those questions with him if if I 01:40:58.989 --> 01:41:01.159 may interject if the 01:41:01.159 --> 01:41:03.890 Commission does recommend consistent with staff's 01:41:03.890 --> 01:41:05.399 recommendation as it relates 01:41:05.399 --> 01:41:08.560 to the screen wall then perhaps we can revisit the 01:41:08.560 --> 01:41:09.479 recommendation for the 01:41:09.479 --> 01:41:17.239 screening mechanisms for the HVAC systems thank you 01:41:20.680 --> 01:41:28.800 thank you Haley have one card on this item request to speak 01:41:28.800 --> 01:41:31.159 says Lawrence 01:41:31.159 --> 01:41:36.720 Holder and I think applicant maybe in Lee Allison speaking 01:41:36.720 --> 01:41:49.960 in lieu of okay I'm 01:41:49.960 --> 01:41:55.399 Lawrence Holder I'm gonna be speaking ten minutes for your 01:41:55.399 --> 01:41:56.119 presentation if 01:41:56.119 --> 01:42:00.439 you that much time perfect we appreciate the recommendation 01:42:00.439 --> 01:42:01.359 by the engineering 01:42:01.359 --> 01:42:04.729 development review division for approval however we do not 01:42:04.729 --> 01:42:05.880 agree with the second 01:42:05.880 --> 01:42:09.420 condition that the six-foot masonry screening won't be 01:42:09.420 --> 01:42:10.239 constructed along the 01:42:10.239 --> 01:42:14.960 common boundary line of the adjacent residential property 01:42:14.960 --> 01:42:16.239 we are proposing a 01:42:16.239 --> 01:42:19.220 garden style office that has highly compatible that is 01:42:19.220 --> 01:42:19.800 highly compatible 01:42:19.800 --> 01:42:25.100 with the residential appearances we are proposing an intens 01:42:25.100 --> 01:42:26.000 ified type-c 01:42:26.000 --> 01:42:28.869 buffer and my understanding whenever we were putting it 01:42:28.869 --> 01:42:30.199 together that 01:42:30.199 --> 01:42:34.260 intensifying that type-c buffer would be in lieu of that 01:42:34.260 --> 01:42:37.000 wall if we don't have if 01:42:37.000 --> 01:42:40.159 we have to put in that wall we don't want to intensify the 01:42:40.159 --> 01:42:44.119 buffer so so we 01:42:44.119 --> 01:42:47.350 were intensifying that buffer for the nuanced mitigation as 01:42:47.350 --> 01:42:48.319 explained in the 01:42:48.319 --> 01:42:51.159 ADP table and the tree canopy table and the comments on 01:42:51.159 --> 01:42:52.800 that sheet as well the 01:42:52.800 --> 01:43:00.000 existing zoning of the property is CMG as it was earlier 01:43:00.000 --> 01:43:03.680 the adjacent properties 01:43:03.680 --> 01:43:07.050 are zoned in our six which is a which is considered a 01:43:07.050 --> 01:43:08.600 highly dense residential 01:43:08.600 --> 01:43:16.090 zoning based on the future land use we were making sure 01:43:16.090 --> 01:43:17.279 that's pointing north 01:43:17.279 --> 01:43:21.340 for you based on the future land use plan this side is a 01:43:21.340 --> 01:43:23.159 transitional area for 01:43:23.159 --> 01:43:26.319 the whole area to become a CMG or equal in the future by 01:43:26.319 --> 01:43:28.439 putting up a wall we 01:43:28.439 --> 01:43:31.119 feel as though we're going to end up with the same 01:43:31.119 --> 01:43:32.880 development stuff next to it 01:43:32.880 --> 01:43:34.720 and then we're just going to end up with the wall that has 01:43:34.720 --> 01:43:35.880 no value or any any 01:43:35.880 --> 01:43:41.260 additional the proposed buildings must conform to the 01:43:41.260 --> 01:43:42.680 building elevations 01:43:42.680 --> 01:43:46.539 provided in the ADP if it gets approved and any additional 01:43:46.539 --> 01:43:47.479 buildings will 01:43:47.479 --> 01:43:50.699 require an ADP to be submitted and brought to the planning 01:43:50.699 --> 01:43:51.399 and zoning 01:43:51.399 --> 01:43:56.369 commission for future expansion so approving this ADP doesn 01:43:56.369 --> 01:43:57.439 't affect the 01:43:57.439 --> 01:44:02.439 future buildings if this were a typical convenience store 01:44:02.439 --> 01:44:04.640 or retail center we 01:44:04.640 --> 01:44:07.270 would we could understand and agree with the conditions for 01:44:07.270 --> 01:44:08.680 a wall however given 01:44:08.680 --> 01:44:11.840 the reasons I just expressed we did not feel that a wall 01:44:11.840 --> 01:44:13.399 would be needed or add 01:44:13.399 --> 01:44:20.760 any value now or in the future a couple questions for you 01:44:20.760 --> 01:44:21.840 Commissioner Roselle 01:44:21.840 --> 01:44:24.239 thank you for being here and presenting I have a question 01:44:24.239 --> 01:44:24.720 for staff 01:44:24.720 --> 01:44:27.319 clarification it was my understanding that because it's a 01:44:27.319 --> 01:44:29.600 large-scale project 01:44:29.600 --> 01:44:32.800 at its conclusion the southern buffer would have to be 01:44:32.800 --> 01:44:34.640 eight feet and that 01:44:34.640 --> 01:44:38.949 staff had reduced it to six feet can you clarify that it 01:44:38.949 --> 01:44:40.479 was to be eight feet and 01:44:40.479 --> 01:44:42.909 there's already been a concession to remove those two feet 01:44:42.909 --> 01:44:44.000 yes the 01:44:44.000 --> 01:44:46.159 requirement in the code is for an eight foot masonry 01:44:46.159 --> 01:44:47.319 screening wall and staff 01:44:47.319 --> 01:44:50.229 recommended six because of the smaller individual scale of 01:44:50.229 --> 01:44:51.279 the building so over 01:44:51.279 --> 01:44:55.500 the larger development would still trigger that eight foot 01:44:55.500 --> 01:44:57.359 requirement and 01:44:57.359 --> 01:44:59.880 so just to clarify thank you for the applicant you're 01:44:59.880 --> 01:45:01.039 wanting a further 01:45:01.039 --> 01:45:04.899 reduction of what would be codified for the southern border 01:45:04.899 --> 01:45:06.680 from eight then we 01:45:06.680 --> 01:45:13.449 did six and you want less is that correct correct okay 01:45:13.449 --> 01:45:14.680 thank you 01:45:14.680 --> 01:45:19.649 Commissioner back thank you chair following up on that last 01:45:19.649 --> 01:45:20.000 part of 01:45:20.000 --> 01:45:24.560 Commissioner Roselle's question you don't want a wall at 01:45:24.560 --> 01:45:26.399 all or you don't 01:45:26.399 --> 01:45:32.090 want a wall plus and the landscape barriers that what I 01:45:32.090 --> 01:45:33.239 heard no we want to 01:45:33.239 --> 01:45:36.600 intensify the landscape buffer added additional trees add 01:45:36.600 --> 01:45:37.680 additional shrubs 01:45:37.680 --> 01:45:42.500 make that landscape area really nice in lieu of the 01:45:42.500 --> 01:45:44.520 retaining wall arm not 01:45:44.520 --> 01:45:49.909 retained but in lieu of the wall again we're looking at 01:45:49.909 --> 01:45:52.119 what is good now and in 01:45:52.119 --> 01:45:57.359 the future by having a wall separating what is essentially 01:45:57.359 --> 01:45:59.560 high residential and 01:45:59.560 --> 01:46:04.189 eventually going to be CMG which will be commercial or 01:46:04.189 --> 01:46:06.760 moving forward it's going 01:46:06.760 --> 01:46:13.909 to be on uniform what kind of equipment are we talking 01:46:13.909 --> 01:46:15.319 about there is just AC 01:46:15.319 --> 01:46:20.319 units yes and these offices are four thousand eight hundred 01:46:20.319 --> 01:46:21.880 and thirty five I 01:46:21.880 --> 01:46:24.039 think square feet less than five thousand square foot so 01:46:24.039 --> 01:46:25.640 these offices are 01:46:25.640 --> 01:46:29.710 relatively bigger homes so these AC units even though it is 01:46:29.710 --> 01:46:31.000 for office would 01:46:31.000 --> 01:46:35.850 be basically to residential sized ish I don't I'm not the H 01:46:35.850 --> 01:46:37.039 VAC guy but they're 01:46:37.039 --> 01:46:41.560 going to be the same relative size as a residential unit so 01:46:41.560 --> 01:46:43.960 we don't have to 01:46:43.960 --> 01:46:49.189 screen from the residents a residence HVAC unit but we 01:46:49.189 --> 01:46:51.000 understand screening 01:46:51.000 --> 01:46:55.199 because this is a commercial we're adhering to the DDC code 01:46:55.199 --> 01:46:56.319 for the 01:46:56.319 --> 01:46:59.479 residents but in all reality the units aren't going to be 01:46:59.479 --> 01:47:00.520 much bigger than a 01:47:00.520 --> 01:47:05.039 residence's unit which could be placed five feet away from 01:47:05.039 --> 01:47:06.479 another house so and 01:47:06.479 --> 01:47:10.710 what was your consideration for a landscape barrier what 01:47:10.710 --> 01:47:11.640 are we looking at 01:47:11.640 --> 01:47:15.310 what were you suggesting we were intensifying it so we were 01:47:15.310 --> 01:47:16.039 going to be 01:47:16.039 --> 01:47:19.500 adding additional trees and shrubs we're looking at a 10 01:47:19.500 --> 01:47:21.399 foot width on this it is 01:47:21.399 --> 01:47:25.640 it is the type C buffer okay we weren't shrinking the size 01:47:25.640 --> 01:47:26.720 of the type C buffer 01:47:26.720 --> 01:47:31.960 it was going to be the DDC size which I believe is 10 feet 01:47:31.960 --> 01:47:35.800 correct 15 15 15 feet 01:47:35.800 --> 01:47:40.130 that's 15 on your site plan okay I should know that that's 01:47:40.130 --> 01:47:41.800 okay we're here to help 01:47:41.800 --> 01:47:47.260 just one last thing how will you identify these buildings 01:47:47.260 --> 01:47:47.880 for the people 01:47:47.880 --> 01:47:50.180 driving down Fort Worth where you can put your signs for 01:47:50.180 --> 01:47:50.800 this for these 01:47:50.800 --> 01:47:53.960 buildings to identify them somebody's driving down Fort 01:47:53.960 --> 01:47:54.600 Worth see these 01:47:54.600 --> 01:48:01.119 buildings are you by all means Lee pardon me Lee Allison 01:48:01.119 --> 01:48:01.640 with Allison 01:48:01.640 --> 01:48:04.079 engineering group I hope it's okay to speak I was on the 01:48:04.079 --> 01:48:05.079 car looking at staff 01:48:05.079 --> 01:48:08.239 they haven't legal happens anything so I guess we're good 01:48:08.239 --> 01:48:11.279 4401 north 35 35 didn't 01:48:11.279 --> 01:48:15.220 Texas the signage will be on the buildings where these are 01:48:15.220 --> 01:48:15.760 going to be 01:48:15.760 --> 01:48:20.729 places to where their destinations we're not going to need 01:48:20.729 --> 01:48:22.119 signs like a Taco Bell 01:48:22.119 --> 01:48:25.119 or restaurant or something would so there's no need for 01:48:25.119 --> 01:48:25.880 that but that be on 01:48:25.880 --> 01:48:30.600 that wall that faces for it would be on the wall facing 01:48:30.600 --> 01:48:31.840 well I don't know to be 01:48:31.840 --> 01:48:35.489 honest with that because again depends on who the tenant is 01:48:35.489 --> 01:48:36.760 Kent keys office is 01:48:36.760 --> 01:48:38.710 going to be one of those and I don't even know if he's 01:48:38.710 --> 01:48:39.560 gonna have a sign on 01:48:39.560 --> 01:48:42.270 it at all or be small monument sign or sign on the side of 01:48:42.270 --> 01:48:43.159 the building but 01:48:43.159 --> 01:48:46.399 he'll deal with sign for that in accordance with the code 01:48:46.399 --> 01:48:47.399 well if people 01:48:47.399 --> 01:48:49.819 are looking for you place and you wanted to look for your 01:48:49.819 --> 01:48:51.439 place that's what I was 01:48:51.439 --> 01:48:55.319 curious about is how you're gonna designate that there'll 01:48:55.319 --> 01:48:55.760 be some of that 01:48:55.760 --> 01:49:01.930 and I might add is Lance was trying to point out in order 01:49:01.930 --> 01:49:03.560 to mitigate the 01:49:03.560 --> 01:49:07.000 requirement for the wall around the perimeter we were 01:49:07.000 --> 01:49:08.920 offering the standard 01:49:08.920 --> 01:49:14.989 required landscape buffer plus additional plantings and we 01:49:14.989 --> 01:49:15.399 were 01:49:15.399 --> 01:49:19.590 offering up screening adjacent for the mechanical equipment 01:49:19.590 --> 01:49:20.520 and we put the 01:49:20.520 --> 01:49:23.239 mechanical equipment person personally on the side of the 01:49:23.239 --> 01:49:24.079 buildings instead of 01:49:24.079 --> 01:49:30.949 the back of the buildings to help attenuate that we're not 01:49:30.949 --> 01:49:32.800 a big corner 01:49:32.800 --> 01:49:36.520 commercial convenience store or supermarket or something 01:49:36.520 --> 01:49:37.439 like that with 01:49:37.439 --> 01:49:40.329 the big heavy mechanical equipment and so forth they 01:49:40.329 --> 01:49:42.880 typically have if the 01:49:42.880 --> 01:49:45.529 walls going to be required I mean certainly we appreciate 01:49:45.529 --> 01:49:46.520 staff's efforts 01:49:46.520 --> 01:49:49.220 to shorten the wall but we would not want to do the extra 01:49:49.220 --> 01:49:50.239 landscaping and we 01:49:50.239 --> 01:49:53.090 would ask that definitely the masonry screening wall 01:49:53.090 --> 01:49:54.439 against the mechanical 01:49:54.439 --> 01:49:57.840 equipment be pulled away don't have any problem with 01:49:57.840 --> 01:50:00.079 vegetation and we didn't put 01:50:00.079 --> 01:50:02.789 dimensions but obviously we'd want those screening to be 01:50:02.789 --> 01:50:04.119 far enough away so that 01:50:04.119 --> 01:50:07.930 the equipment will operate properly and we can access it 01:50:07.930 --> 01:50:08.960 and maintain it 01:50:08.960 --> 01:50:13.319 properly okay thank you so we're bargaining I guess thank 01:50:13.319 --> 01:50:14.600 you and while 01:50:14.600 --> 01:50:17.840 you're there Lee I have a question for you that I've got a 01:50:17.840 --> 01:50:19.880 couple more on the 01:50:19.880 --> 01:50:24.590 property to the east it's owned in our six and I think the 01:50:24.590 --> 01:50:26.119 setback on in our 01:50:26.119 --> 01:50:29.819 six is four feet off the property lines that correct I 01:50:29.819 --> 01:50:31.600 think and we're looking 01:50:31.600 --> 01:50:33.899 at the top of my head I'm sorry I think that's correct on 01:50:33.899 --> 01:50:35.640 in our six and so to 01:50:35.640 --> 01:50:40.350 the south they've got a 20-foot building line between the 01:50:40.350 --> 01:50:41.640 property in the back of 01:50:41.640 --> 01:50:45.029 the buildings the parking lots are on the north side of the 01:50:45.029 --> 01:50:46.159 buildings and so I 01:50:46.159 --> 01:50:50.090 understand maybe some of the concern for a screening wall 01:50:50.090 --> 01:50:51.720 if there was parking on 01:50:51.720 --> 01:50:54.880 the south side of buildings where there'd be traffic but 01:50:54.880 --> 01:50:56.039 with the parking on the 01:50:56.039 --> 01:50:58.430 north side of the buildings with the buildings being 20 01:50:58.430 --> 01:50:59.359 feet off the property 01:50:59.359 --> 01:51:03.680 line they're mostly like houses I mean I I can see your 01:51:03.680 --> 01:51:05.079 point that some nice 01:51:05.079 --> 01:51:09.350 landscaping and screening is I think appropriate I would 01:51:09.350 --> 01:51:10.920 think it as this 01:51:10.920 --> 01:51:14.630 comes before our Commission in the future on the east side 01:51:14.630 --> 01:51:16.119 that does back up to 01:51:16.119 --> 01:51:20.029 in our six I could see where a masonry screening wall would 01:51:20.029 --> 01:51:21.359 would probably be 01:51:21.359 --> 01:51:24.890 not only beneficial for residents but also for the 01:51:24.890 --> 01:51:26.840 development itself but to 01:51:26.840 --> 01:51:30.479 the to the south I can see where that would be more of a 01:51:30.479 --> 01:51:32.000 commercial type feel 01:51:32.000 --> 01:51:35.760 and having it open versus a masonry wall there because of 01:51:35.760 --> 01:51:37.000 the way that you have 01:51:37.000 --> 01:51:40.159 your site plan and the way the buildings are oriented so 01:51:40.159 --> 01:51:41.960 beyond that the only 01:51:41.960 --> 01:51:44.539 other concern you all have is on the screening on the mason 01:51:44.539 --> 01:51:45.399 ry and you're fine 01:51:45.399 --> 01:51:48.340 with all the other conditions and extra things that you all 01:51:48.340 --> 01:51:49.199 have agreed to do 01:51:49.199 --> 01:51:52.909 or that our staff has asked you're willing to do those yes 01:51:52.909 --> 01:51:53.960 that is correct 01:51:53.960 --> 01:51:57.930 and I appreciate your observation and that the part of the 01:51:57.930 --> 01:51:59.399 building adjacent 01:51:59.399 --> 01:52:02.350 to properties either on the south or the east will be back 01:52:02.350 --> 01:52:03.640 yards not parking lots 01:52:03.640 --> 01:52:08.000 and sure and mechanical access and things and that nature 01:52:08.000 --> 01:52:08.439 from their cars 01:52:08.439 --> 01:52:12.689 also after this phase any future phases we do have to come 01:52:12.689 --> 01:52:14.239 back with an ADP for 01:52:14.239 --> 01:52:18.460 this site and I think there'd be opportunities then and I 01:52:18.460 --> 01:52:19.920 would assume and 01:52:19.920 --> 01:52:22.800 not know that even if we put a building somewhere else if 01:52:22.800 --> 01:52:24.039 it could create a need 01:52:24.039 --> 01:52:26.520 for additional screening on the sites we already have that 01:52:26.520 --> 01:52:27.399 could be imposed at 01:52:27.399 --> 01:52:32.239 that time as well I think it's an assumption okay a couple 01:52:32.239 --> 01:52:33.279 more questions 01:52:33.279 --> 01:52:39.750 Commissioner Taylor thank you chair so first my first 01:52:39.750 --> 01:52:40.920 question I think you just 01:52:40.920 --> 01:52:43.890 answered by saying that you you would the mechanical 01:52:43.890 --> 01:52:45.319 screening with masonry 01:52:45.319 --> 01:52:48.300 wouldn't be a problem at all is that correct not if we don 01:52:48.300 --> 01:52:49.159 't have a fence 01:52:49.159 --> 01:52:52.600 right we're gonna put a fence up there then we'd like to 01:52:52.600 --> 01:52:53.640 not have we can still 01:52:53.640 --> 01:52:56.800 do vegetative screening but would not want to do masonry 01:52:56.800 --> 01:52:58.279 screening animation 01:52:58.279 --> 01:53:01.439 refinance right now I have another question I'm looking at 01:53:01.439 --> 01:53:02.319 going back to 01:53:02.319 --> 01:53:06.359 the preliminary plot excuse me the preliminary plot it 01:53:06.359 --> 01:53:10.479 appears that I'm 01:53:10.479 --> 01:53:13.640 trying to get my head around lot for or the common area the 01:53:13.640 --> 01:53:14.680 detention pond all 01:53:14.680 --> 01:53:18.850 right what happened is we started the ADP process before we 01:53:18.850 --> 01:53:19.800 ever started 01:53:19.800 --> 01:53:23.920 platting thinking we could do that then we were informed we 01:53:23.920 --> 01:53:25.180 couldn't do an ADP 01:53:25.180 --> 01:53:28.340 until we had an approved preliminary plat so we went and 01:53:28.340 --> 01:53:29.119 prepared the 01:53:29.119 --> 01:53:32.489 preliminary plat and typically areas that are going to be 01:53:32.489 --> 01:53:33.600 maintained by all 01:53:33.600 --> 01:53:36.800 the property owners together are labeled common areas so 01:53:36.800 --> 01:53:38.399 when our ADP we labeled 01:53:38.399 --> 01:53:40.760 lot number four because there was going to be four lots 01:53:40.760 --> 01:53:42.039 there and in our formal 01:53:42.039 --> 01:53:45.020 preliminary plat we got a common area so then we got it on 01:53:45.020 --> 01:53:45.840 the consent agenda 01:53:45.840 --> 01:53:48.630 tonight so we've got an approved preliminary plat so we can 01:53:48.630 --> 01:53:49.319 now consider 01:53:49.319 --> 01:53:55.479 an ADP so that's the circle we've been running in right and 01:53:55.479 --> 01:53:56.279 actually my 01:53:56.279 --> 01:53:59.439 question there wasn't so much on the label it's the shape 01:53:59.439 --> 01:54:00.279 of the shape of 01:54:00.279 --> 01:54:04.869 whatever that is lot for common area it seems to indicate 01:54:04.869 --> 01:54:07.000 in the site plan the 01:54:07.000 --> 01:54:10.340 detention pond will eventually go north does that stay 01:54:10.340 --> 01:54:11.760 completely in the common 01:54:11.760 --> 01:54:15.380 area or does that extend into what is labeled not for the 01:54:15.380 --> 01:54:17.079 replanting also when 01:54:17.079 --> 01:54:21.079 we add more lots or more phases right now and to be 01:54:21.079 --> 01:54:23.279 technically correct we are 01:54:23.279 --> 01:54:28.039 not proposing a detention pond we are strictly proposing a 01:54:28.039 --> 01:54:28.880 water quality 01:54:28.880 --> 01:54:32.600 treatment facility and that facility is not rectangular 01:54:32.600 --> 01:54:34.079 even though the lot is 01:54:34.079 --> 01:54:36.899 it's kind of moon-shaped but it fits within there and we 01:54:36.899 --> 01:54:37.920 just planted that 01:54:37.920 --> 01:54:41.909 lot big enough to accommodate that when we get around to 01:54:41.909 --> 01:54:43.640 doing more and needing 01:54:43.640 --> 01:54:46.420 to provide detention because we're not creating any more 01:54:46.420 --> 01:54:47.520 runoff is coming off 01:54:47.520 --> 01:54:50.399 today when we have to do detention will shape that 01:54:50.399 --> 01:54:52.039 detention pond it could be 01:54:52.039 --> 01:54:55.689 L shaped around that corner and we'll have a different 01:54:55.689 --> 01:54:56.760 common area lot a 01:54:56.760 --> 01:54:59.460 replanted common area lot that will accommodate that 01:54:59.460 --> 01:55:01.079 particular facility and 01:55:01.079 --> 01:55:04.489 so this would really what goes in on lot for will be a 01:55:04.489 --> 01:55:06.560 temporary yes ice and 01:55:06.560 --> 01:55:10.680 water treatment kind of still detained detaining water and 01:55:10.680 --> 01:55:11.760 nobody likes to call 01:55:11.760 --> 01:55:15.159 it temporary because who knows how long it'll be there but 01:55:15.159 --> 01:55:16.239 our intention is 01:55:16.239 --> 01:55:18.899 temporary until we can fully develop the balance of the 01:55:18.899 --> 01:55:20.159 site okay and looking at 01:55:20.159 --> 01:55:23.430 I was trying to measure distance because this this is about 01:55:23.430 --> 01:55:24.880 500 or so feet wide 01:55:24.880 --> 01:55:28.479 on the south end and the buffer was indicated as like 300 01:55:28.479 --> 01:55:29.880 feet does that end 01:55:29.880 --> 01:55:34.310 at the edge of lot three or does that continue on into 01:55:34.310 --> 01:55:35.640 whatever you want to 01:55:35.640 --> 01:55:38.840 call it lot floor common area I'd have to look at the 01:55:38.840 --> 01:55:41.600 drawings my recollection is 01:55:41.600 --> 01:55:45.050 it goes all the way across lot for the common area and we 01:55:45.050 --> 01:55:46.159 would be doing that 01:55:46.159 --> 01:55:49.970 anyway thank you they just so on the preliminary plot I 01:55:49.970 --> 01:55:50.760 think it shows it 01:55:50.760 --> 01:55:54.729 like 487 feet total depth and it so it's here it's 01:55:54.729 --> 01:55:56.600 indicated as all the way back 01:55:56.600 --> 01:56:00.560 so almost 500 feet well this has the concept or elements of 01:56:00.560 --> 01:56:01.319 the concept in 01:56:01.319 --> 01:56:05.399 existing facilities on there because of the ADP our 01:56:05.399 --> 01:56:06.800 landscape buffer will go 01:56:06.800 --> 01:56:10.760 back to the to the edge of the ADP which is to the limits 01:56:10.760 --> 01:56:12.640 of the okay water 01:56:12.640 --> 01:56:15.369 quality pond yeah that really that was my final point was 01:56:15.369 --> 01:56:16.560 that this would also 01:56:16.560 --> 01:56:20.760 buffer the pond right and mr. Beck to address the question 01:56:20.760 --> 01:56:21.279 you brought up 01:56:21.279 --> 01:56:26.739 during workshop these ponds are designed to drain out in 24 01:56:26.739 --> 01:56:28.479 hours and because of 01:56:28.479 --> 01:56:30.989 the vegetative nature and the natural treatments we're not 01:56:30.989 --> 01:56:31.720 going to have an 01:56:31.720 --> 01:56:35.399 odor problem or mosquito problem or anything of that great 01:56:35.399 --> 01:56:37.920 thank you 01:56:39.840 --> 01:56:43.670 Commissioner Ellis thank you chair thank you for being here 01:56:43.670 --> 01:56:46.680 in presenting okay I 01:56:46.680 --> 01:56:50.300 got my questions about the detention area answered I guess 01:56:50.300 --> 01:56:51.319 now I'm I'm just 01:56:51.319 --> 01:56:56.590 confused so we can move forward with a motion as to what we 01:56:56.590 --> 01:56:58.880 are removing per 01:56:58.880 --> 01:57:03.760 staff's approval and their recommended amendments to your 01:57:03.760 --> 01:57:05.079 plan so if you could 01:57:05.079 --> 01:57:08.039 well at the risk of telling you what I'd like you to do 01:57:08.039 --> 01:57:10.119 well we hope that you 01:57:10.119 --> 01:57:14.720 will remove the staff requirement for a masonry screening 01:57:14.720 --> 01:57:16.520 wall if that goes 01:57:16.520 --> 01:57:19.680 away all the other things would stay in place but okay if 01:57:19.680 --> 01:57:20.720 the screening wall 01:57:20.720 --> 01:57:24.319 stays in place we're asking that you remove our offer of 01:57:24.319 --> 01:57:25.640 the intensified 01:57:25.640 --> 01:57:30.649 landscaping and the masonry screening on the mechanical 01:57:30.649 --> 01:57:32.640 units themselves okay so 01:57:32.640 --> 01:57:37.069 if the masonry wall buffer is removed the six-foot wall 01:57:37.069 --> 01:57:39.119 recommended 01:57:39.119 --> 01:57:43.350 recommendation if that is removed then you'll leave the 01:57:43.350 --> 01:57:44.279 mechanical 01:57:44.279 --> 01:57:47.470 screening stays in place okay as well as the enhanced 01:57:47.470 --> 01:57:48.880 landscape okay that's where 01:57:48.880 --> 01:57:52.119 I was confused thank you okay 01:57:52.800 --> 01:57:56.210 Commissioner Roselle thank you chair I'd like to go ahead 01:57:56.210 --> 01:57:57.560 and make a motion I 01:57:57.560 --> 01:58:01.800 move approval of this agenda item 01:58:04.359 --> 01:58:08.960 you can try this again a clarification I move approval for 01:58:08.960 --> 01:58:10.840 the agenda item ADP 1620 01:58:10.840 --> 01:58:15.800 with the staff recommendations point one point two a three 01:58:15.800 --> 01:58:16.920 four and five 01:58:16.920 --> 01:58:21.239 excluding point two B 01:58:33.239 --> 01:58:38.050 Commissioner Tadden a second and I'd also like to add that 01:58:38.050 --> 01:58:39.680 normally I am a 01:58:39.680 --> 01:58:42.840 fan of the masonry walls whenever we have conflicting uses 01:58:42.840 --> 01:58:44.680 they kill sound 01:58:44.680 --> 01:58:48.600 they block light prevent headlights make it hard for 01:58:48.600 --> 01:58:50.239 somebody in a parking lot to 01:58:50.239 --> 01:58:53.079 wander into somebody's yard that kind of stuff but in this 01:58:53.079 --> 01:58:54.560 case your development 01:58:54.560 --> 01:58:58.529 is to scale with the surrounding area and this this veget 01:58:58.529 --> 01:58:59.840 ative buffer will 01:58:59.840 --> 01:59:02.569 actually probably provide a better amenity to the house 01:59:02.569 --> 01:59:03.600 immediately to the 01:59:03.600 --> 01:59:07.380 south concrete wall would concrete wall would be right on 01:59:07.380 --> 01:59:09.119 the property line and 01:59:09.119 --> 01:59:11.819 you know they would they would go from having a view of a 01:59:11.819 --> 01:59:12.800 field having a view 01:59:12.800 --> 01:59:17.960 of concrete blocks so I do feel that a 15 foot buffer with 01:59:17.960 --> 01:59:20.399 as you outlined red 01:59:20.399 --> 01:59:24.270 buds and I just tore out about a dozen nandinas I'm not a 01:59:24.270 --> 01:59:25.199 fan of nandina but 01:59:25.199 --> 01:59:29.119 nandina is in boxwoods and so forth it would would provide 01:59:29.119 --> 01:59:30.539 a better amenity to 01:59:30.539 --> 01:59:34.069 the neighbor and the mechanical screening the screening 01:59:34.069 --> 01:59:34.359 around the 01:59:34.359 --> 01:59:39.060 mechanical also prevents noise and heat and that type of 01:59:39.060 --> 01:59:40.880 problem and that you 01:59:40.880 --> 01:59:44.039 know that might occur so for those reasons I I think the 01:59:44.039 --> 01:59:44.800 vegetative buffer 01:59:44.800 --> 01:59:52.560 is superior to the masonry screening okay I was going to 01:59:52.560 --> 01:59:53.640 ask if you could do a 01:59:53.640 --> 01:59:58.000 friendly amendment I like the masonry wall I also think 01:59:58.000 --> 01:59:59.800 just from for the type 01:59:59.800 --> 02:00:03.579 of project it is and then the size that the masonry 02:00:03.579 --> 02:00:05.439 screening around the air 02:00:05.439 --> 02:00:10.149 conditioning units is a is a non-necessity I think the 02:00:10.149 --> 02:00:11.399 landscaping 02:00:11.399 --> 02:00:14.560 there and where they're located is not necessary so I don't 02:00:14.560 --> 02:00:15.239 know if you would 02:00:15.239 --> 02:00:17.260 entertain that I would entertain that but it was my 02:00:17.260 --> 02:00:18.640 understanding from Manal 02:00:18.640 --> 02:00:22.359 that once this gets approved with they could come back and 02:00:22.359 --> 02:00:23.560 if we recommend with 02:00:23.560 --> 02:00:27.560 staff recommendations does it bind them to the masonry wall 02:00:27.560 --> 02:00:28.159 around the mechanical 02:00:28.159 --> 02:00:33.489 equipment what I was explaining was should the commission 02:00:33.489 --> 02:00:34.079 choose to follow 02:00:34.079 --> 02:00:37.520 staff's recommendation we would be willing to amend if the 02:00:37.520 --> 02:00:38.640 masonry wall was 02:00:38.640 --> 02:00:43.189 put in place the screening mechanism requirement for the HV 02:00:43.189 --> 02:00:45.000 AC systems okay 02:00:45.000 --> 02:00:52.319 then I would amend that vegetation be used for screening 02:00:52.319 --> 02:00:53.680 for the mechanical 02:00:53.680 --> 02:01:00.829 equipment also yes Commissioner Tyler I'm a real fan of the 02:01:00.829 --> 02:01:01.880 the sound deadening 02:01:01.880 --> 02:01:05.189 of the of the masonry so I don't know if I need to withdraw 02:01:05.189 --> 02:01:06.720 my second legal or 02:01:06.720 --> 02:01:10.390 so I do think you don't agree with it to keep the to keep 02:01:10.390 --> 02:01:12.560 the stonewall there 02:01:12.560 --> 02:01:15.050 so I don't know what draw your second is that is that the 02:01:15.050 --> 02:01:16.039 correct procedure 02:01:16.039 --> 02:01:19.479 yes you withdraw your second and just so I understand 02:01:19.479 --> 02:01:20.279 Commissioner Taylor your 02:01:20.279 --> 02:01:26.479 your it seems as though the the mechanical AC which is 02:01:26.479 --> 02:01:27.720 residential size 02:01:27.720 --> 02:01:33.989 is 30 feet plus off the boundary of the property and you're 02:01:33.989 --> 02:01:35.159 still very concerned 02:01:35.159 --> 02:01:38.859 about it carrying the noise carrying that 40 50 feet to the 02:01:38.859 --> 02:01:39.779 neighbor to the 02:01:39.779 --> 02:01:44.829 south I understand that they're a 4,000 square foot unit 02:01:44.829 --> 02:01:46.199 commercial units might 02:01:46.199 --> 02:01:49.359 have higher demand they might have more more doors opening 02:01:49.359 --> 02:01:50.359 and closing might 02:01:50.359 --> 02:01:52.439 have a bigger unit so that they can cool down more 02:01:52.439 --> 02:01:54.140 effectively you know a six 02:01:54.140 --> 02:01:56.680 foot wide three foot tall or two and a half foot tall 02:01:56.680 --> 02:01:58.760 little brick wall right 02:01:58.760 --> 02:02:01.920 there doesn't seem like much of an imposition to me and it 02:02:01.920 --> 02:02:03.439 really might it 02:02:03.439 --> 02:02:06.649 might have impact so that's I don't I don't see it as we're 02:02:06.649 --> 02:02:07.720 making them put in 02:02:07.720 --> 02:02:10.069 a 600 foot wall or something like that it's it's gonna be 02:02:10.069 --> 02:02:10.960 something that's like 02:02:10.960 --> 02:02:15.810 this big you know waist-high so I don't think it's worth 02:02:15.810 --> 02:02:17.239 removing especially if 02:02:17.239 --> 02:02:26.399 they're okay with it I'm gonna make a second first and a 02:02:26.399 --> 02:02:28.359 second and open the 02:02:28.359 --> 02:02:31.800 floor to discussion Commissioner Ellis yeah thank you chair 02:02:31.800 --> 02:02:32.319 I have to echo 02:02:32.319 --> 02:02:35.489 Commissioner Taylor's remarks I mean number one they're 02:02:35.489 --> 02:02:37.079 agreeing to do it it 02:02:37.079 --> 02:02:40.869 is for buffering sound in which we're not going to get with 02:02:40.869 --> 02:02:42.359 vegetation and even 02:02:42.359 --> 02:02:45.760 though I understand that it might be the size of a you know 02:02:45.760 --> 02:02:47.079 household unit it's 02:02:47.079 --> 02:02:49.970 going to be multiple of them and there will be higher 02:02:49.970 --> 02:02:51.399 demand just because of 02:02:51.399 --> 02:02:53.539 commercial building and what will be going on in there and 02:02:53.539 --> 02:02:54.159 most likely the 02:02:54.159 --> 02:02:57.380 degrees that one operates in their home it's going to be 02:02:57.380 --> 02:02:58.600 much cooler in these 02:02:58.600 --> 02:03:05.189 commercial buildings so I don't like that amendment okay 02:03:05.189 --> 02:03:07.479 well as I recognize 02:03:07.479 --> 02:03:10.640 Commissioner back forever thank you chair okay just so I'm 02:03:10.640 --> 02:03:11.319 clear I've gotten 02:03:11.319 --> 02:03:17.390 confused here what we're voting on is there'll be a 02:03:17.390 --> 02:03:19.279 landscape buffer up to the 02:03:19.279 --> 02:03:22.600 mechanicals then we put a then we stop it there put a wall 02:03:22.600 --> 02:03:23.720 then go back to the 02:03:23.720 --> 02:03:28.199 landscape or is there gonna are we talking about a wall the 02:03:28.199 --> 02:03:29.399 full length of 02:03:29.399 --> 02:03:37.000 the south end no okay then clarify my my my my motion was 02:03:37.000 --> 02:03:38.359 as staff recommended 02:03:38.359 --> 02:03:42.119 removing point to be which is the six foot opaque masonry 02:03:42.119 --> 02:03:43.600 screening as well as 02:03:43.600 --> 02:03:46.909 point three where it says the mechanical equipment must be 02:03:46.909 --> 02:03:47.720 construct out of 02:03:47.720 --> 02:03:52.720 masonry materials I amended that to include vegetation okay 02:03:52.720 --> 02:03:53.600 so remove that 02:03:53.600 --> 02:03:56.310 six-foot wall the whole length of the south side of the 02:03:56.310 --> 02:03:57.840 property line correct 02:03:57.840 --> 02:04:03.909 and okay and then a 15-foot buffer is what's there right 02:04:03.909 --> 02:04:07.199 okay okay but that 02:04:07.199 --> 02:04:16.000 hadn't been seconded yet has it it has it is okay sure 02:04:16.000 --> 02:04:25.989 go on Haley to pull the site plan up shows here on the 02:04:25.989 --> 02:04:28.560 south side this area 02:04:28.560 --> 02:04:32.989 represents the 15-foot type C buffer that would be required 02:04:32.989 --> 02:04:34.039 which if I 02:04:34.039 --> 02:04:37.050 understand correctly is to remain with their added 02:04:37.050 --> 02:04:40.720 vegetation and then these 02:04:40.720 --> 02:04:43.460 squares here represent the proposed mechanical equipment 02:04:43.460 --> 02:04:44.279 which would have 02:04:44.279 --> 02:04:48.600 the masonry wall and vegetative screening around them 02:04:54.600 --> 02:05:01.079 yes back to your question the elements of the last 02:05:01.079 --> 02:05:06.319 comprise a 15-foot wide landscape microphone that extends 02:05:06.319 --> 02:05:07.720 from that 02:05:07.720 --> 02:05:13.930 extends from the southern property line 15 feet in and it 02:05:13.930 --> 02:05:18.119 would have landscaping 02:05:18.119 --> 02:05:22.920 live landscaping within that in the form of if I'm not 02:05:22.920 --> 02:05:27.000 mistaken shrubs and five 02:05:27.000 --> 02:05:32.739 trees six trees and 25 shrubs are required that being said 02:05:32.739 --> 02:05:33.439 as it relates 02:05:33.439 --> 02:05:36.939 to the HVA system so there are two separate requirements in 02:05:36.939 --> 02:05:37.760 play but the 02:05:37.760 --> 02:05:41.619 motion is then saying if I'm understand it correctly that 02:05:41.619 --> 02:05:43.600 it only the 15-foot 02:05:43.600 --> 02:05:47.729 landscape buffer would be required with the associated tree 02:05:47.729 --> 02:05:49.439 plantings reflected 02:05:49.439 --> 02:05:54.640 by the applicant for the entire length of the cell yeah as 02:05:54.640 --> 02:05:55.640 it relates to this 02:05:55.640 --> 02:06:00.319 request okay not now the wall we were talking about that 02:06:00.319 --> 02:06:01.239 was also running along 02:06:01.239 --> 02:06:06.039 the south border to not in between correct those two 02:06:06.039 --> 02:06:07.479 buildings there correct 02:06:07.479 --> 02:06:13.850 so staff's recommendation was that a masonry wall would be 02:06:13.850 --> 02:06:15.279 required along 02:06:15.279 --> 02:06:18.760 the southern property line six feet in height opposed to 02:06:18.760 --> 02:06:19.760 the eight foot height 02:06:19.760 --> 02:06:23.430 requirement and that the rectangles or the squares that H 02:06:23.430 --> 02:06:24.800 aley points out on this 02:06:24.800 --> 02:06:28.810 landscape plan would also or should also it is recommended 02:06:28.810 --> 02:06:30.079 be screened with a 02:06:30.079 --> 02:06:35.439 masonry cap around those so to speak those are the two 02:06:35.439 --> 02:06:36.680 separate requirements 02:06:36.680 --> 02:06:40.430 and then the motion that's come forward is simply requiring 02:06:40.430 --> 02:06:41.800 or recommending that 02:06:41.800 --> 02:06:50.420 the 15 foot wide landscape buffer remain no wall remove 02:06:50.420 --> 02:06:50.479 okay no wall just so that 02:06:50.479 --> 02:06:54.670 everyone is clear on the Commission since we're down a 02:06:54.670 --> 02:06:55.960 member for this 02:06:55.960 --> 02:07:00.720 session it will require affirmative vote of four in order 02:07:00.720 --> 02:07:02.000 to pass yes this 02:07:02.000 --> 02:07:04.399 motion 02:07:05.359 --> 02:07:12.800 Commissioner Tyner I move we amend our the the motion to 02:07:12.800 --> 02:07:14.239 reinstate staff's 02:07:14.239 --> 02:07:18.270 recommendation of three in requiring the masonry screening 02:07:18.270 --> 02:07:19.359 around the air 02:07:19.359 --> 02:07:21.880 conditioning units 02:07:26.960 --> 02:07:29.989 you asking for a friendly amendment when I was I was just 02:07:29.989 --> 02:07:32.720 gonna I think he's 02:07:32.720 --> 02:07:36.899 moved for an amendment so we have an official amendment we 02:07:36.899 --> 02:07:38.279 need a second okay 02:07:38.279 --> 02:07:42.050 Commissioner Roselle you're next I wasn't going to second 02:07:42.050 --> 02:07:43.199 it I don't know if 02:07:43.199 --> 02:07:45.810 Commissioner Ellis was playing on doing that I'm sure after 02:07:45.810 --> 02:07:46.720 I would definitely 02:07:46.720 --> 02:07:46.720 second that okay first and second to add the mechanical 02:07:46.720 --> 02:07:55.199 screenings back in okay 02:07:55.199 --> 02:07:59.329 Commissioner Roselle thank you chair is it applicable to 02:07:59.329 --> 02:08:00.680 bring up the applicant 02:08:00.680 --> 02:08:03.130 and just that it seems like there might be a commission 02:08:03.130 --> 02:08:04.199 that split just to get 02:08:04.199 --> 02:08:06.649 their understanding of how important the mechanical 02:08:06.649 --> 02:08:08.000 screening is to this project 02:08:08.000 --> 02:08:13.239 in terms of masonry verse vegetation seems to be the 02:08:13.239 --> 02:08:16.439 sticking point here yes 02:08:16.439 --> 02:08:21.250 we're basically okay with doing screening around the units 02:08:21.250 --> 02:08:22.159 we can put a 02:08:22.159 --> 02:08:25.100 wall there we can put shrubs there and whatever you would 02:08:25.100 --> 02:08:26.000 like we just don't 02:08:26.000 --> 02:08:30.960 want to do the wall along the buffer that's very helpful 02:08:30.960 --> 02:08:31.840 thank you 02:08:34.479 --> 02:08:38.529 oh with that I would like to go back to the original motion 02:08:38.529 --> 02:08:40.479 that was placed 02:08:40.479 --> 02:08:45.510 apologies to the chair and move that we approve this with 02:08:45.510 --> 02:08:47.399 all five points minus 02:08:47.399 --> 02:08:59.189 to be you know and I apologize for this because I was sort 02:08:59.189 --> 02:09:00.239 of encouraged here 02:09:00.239 --> 02:09:04.430 but since we have an official motion for amendment that's 02:09:04.430 --> 02:09:05.840 going to take precedent 02:09:05.840 --> 02:09:08.449 over the main motion we can't go back and modify the main 02:09:08.449 --> 02:09:09.439 motion with that on 02:09:09.439 --> 02:09:15.869 the table so since it's as is then we can vote on that or 02:09:15.869 --> 02:09:16.760 you can entertain a 02:09:16.760 --> 02:09:25.159 friendly amendment as Mr. Roselle has indicated so let me 02:09:25.159 --> 02:09:26.279 get clear we can 02:09:26.279 --> 02:09:29.439 vote on the motion that we have and if it fails then we 02:09:29.439 --> 02:09:31.199 would come back and 02:09:31.199 --> 02:09:34.829 make a new motion to go and add the screening back in is 02:09:34.829 --> 02:09:36.000 that correct so if 02:09:36.000 --> 02:09:38.630 we have a motion on the floor right now our motion that we 02:09:38.630 --> 02:09:39.600 have to take up is 02:09:39.600 --> 02:09:42.850 the one where staffs recommendations are put back in and he 02:09:42.850 --> 02:09:44.720 had indicated that 02:09:44.720 --> 02:09:48.859 he would be willing to put back in the second is it number 02:09:48.859 --> 02:09:50.600 three but we'd still 02:09:50.600 --> 02:09:53.890 like to leave out number to be and so if you're amenable to 02:09:53.890 --> 02:09:54.880 that then we can 02:09:54.880 --> 02:09:59.920 change the amended the motion for modification okay so 02:09:59.920 --> 02:10:00.960 would it be easier 02:10:00.960 --> 02:10:06.340 just to vote twice or I'm so I withdraw my motion then are 02:10:06.340 --> 02:10:07.720 you amenable to 02:10:07.720 --> 02:10:11.579 change your motion to that and Commissioner Ellis are you 02:10:11.579 --> 02:10:12.199 an amendment 02:10:12.199 --> 02:10:18.359 amenable to seconding that change if I could clarify what 02:10:18.359 --> 02:10:20.680 we're okay what we're 02:10:20.680 --> 02:10:25.210 taking up is the motion to amend the main motion and I'm 02:10:25.210 --> 02:10:26.239 sorry this gets 02:10:26.239 --> 02:10:29.640 complex for the audience but it's Robert's rules it we're 02:10:29.640 --> 02:10:30.640 taking up the 02:10:30.640 --> 02:10:33.840 motion to amend the main motion in order to put the staff 02:10:33.840 --> 02:10:35.520 recommendations back in 02:10:35.520 --> 02:10:40.149 mr. Roselle has indicated that he would go ahead and 02:10:40.149 --> 02:10:42.600 entertain having three put 02:10:42.600 --> 02:10:46.159 back in but would still like to see to be removed which is 02:10:46.159 --> 02:10:47.079 in line with what 02:10:47.079 --> 02:10:51.869 with what the developer has asked for so I asked if mr. 02:10:51.869 --> 02:10:53.800 Taylor would be amenable 02:10:53.800 --> 02:10:57.850 to a friendly modification of his motion to amend and 02:10:57.850 --> 02:10:59.039 whether or not you would 02:10:59.039 --> 02:11:03.880 agree to second that yes I would okay so now we have a 02:11:03.880 --> 02:11:05.239 motion we can vote on 02:11:05.239 --> 02:11:11.779 thank you I'm gonna call on Commissioner Roselle to restate 02:11:11.779 --> 02:11:13.199 his amended motion so 02:11:13.199 --> 02:11:18.390 everybody's clear and then we'll vote so my motion is to 02:11:18.390 --> 02:11:19.920 approve agenda item 02:11:19.920 --> 02:11:24.880 ADP 1620 with staff recommendations of point 1 point 2 a 02:11:24.880 --> 02:11:26.960 point 3 point 4 and 02:11:26.960 --> 02:11:36.119 point 5 with the specific exclusion of 4b 2b okay so all 02:11:36.119 --> 02:11:41.359 but 2b okay and I'm 02:11:41.359 --> 02:11:47.430 already got a second on that so any further discussion on 02:11:47.430 --> 02:11:50.479 this item seeing 02:11:50.479 --> 02:11:53.880 none I'll call for a vote on the board 02:11:56.960 --> 02:12:12.359 motion carries 6 to 0 that will move us to our public 02:12:12.359 --> 02:12:14.800 hearing section again our 02:12:14.800 --> 02:12:18.420 item a has been moved to the end of our agenda so we will 02:12:18.420 --> 02:12:20.000 move to item B at 02:12:20.000 --> 02:12:24.819 this time I'm going to open the public hearing for fr 16 - 02:12:24.819 --> 02:12:26.960 0 0 2 8 and call on 02:12:26.960 --> 02:12:30.399 Haley for presentation 02:12:43.800 --> 02:12:49.869 good evening so this is fr 16 - 0 0 2 8 it is a replat of 02:12:49.869 --> 02:12:51.279 the revised Roberts 02:12:51.279 --> 02:12:58.050 edition and this is a replat to break the original lot 3r 2 02:12:58.050 --> 02:13:00.560 into lots 3r 2r 1 02:13:00.560 --> 02:13:05.319 and 3r 2r 2 the property is located at the corner of Ector 02:13:05.319 --> 02:13:06.199 and Emory Street 02:13:06.199 --> 02:13:09.359 and the lots are intended for commercial development and I 02:13:09.359 --> 02:13:10.000 can answer any 02:13:10.000 --> 02:13:20.880 questions about the plot any questions for staff thank you 02:13:20.880 --> 02:13:29.949 Commissioner back I move we approve of our 16 0 2 8 we've 02:13:29.949 --> 02:13:30.600 opened the public 02:13:30.600 --> 02:13:36.670 hearing on this item we cannot take a motion did you okay 02:13:36.670 --> 02:13:39.460 that's okay this is 02:13:39.460 --> 02:13:41.609 the public hearing item so we can't do the motion until the 02:13:41.609 --> 02:13:42.279 public hearing is 02:13:42.279 --> 02:13:45.739 closed so we just need to make a call to make sure anybody 02:13:45.739 --> 02:13:46.319 else wants to speak on 02:13:46.319 --> 02:13:51.199 this item yep sorry so Haley's finished her presentation no 02:13:51.199 --> 02:13:53.920 questions for staff 02:13:53.920 --> 02:13:57.270 this is a public hearing is there anyone else who would 02:13:57.270 --> 02:13:58.600 like to speak on this 02:13:58.600 --> 02:14:04.670 item at this time anyone that would like to speak on this 02:14:04.670 --> 02:14:07.279 item seeing none I will 02:14:07.279 --> 02:14:09.729 close the public hearing and I will open the floor for 02:14:09.729 --> 02:14:10.880 discussion or emotion 02:14:10.880 --> 02:14:20.279 Commissioner back I move we approve if our 16 0 2 8 02:14:25.600 --> 02:14:30.720 Commissioner Sullivan a second a motion okay we have a 02:14:30.720 --> 02:14:32.000 first and a second for 02:14:32.000 --> 02:14:36.079 approval any discussion 02:14:37.279 --> 02:14:41.439 seeing none I'll call for a vote on the board 02:14:49.399 --> 02:15:01.739 motion carries six to zero I will move us to item C and I 02:15:01.739 --> 02:15:04.039 will open the public 02:15:04.039 --> 02:15:10.109 hearing for z 16 - 0 0 2 7 a and Colin Haley for 02:15:10.109 --> 02:15:12.359 presentation 02:15:25.079 --> 02:15:30.119 good evening again this is case z 1627 for the standard and 02:15:30.119 --> 02:15:31.960 Hudson at Med Park 02:15:31.960 --> 02:15:36.029 the request was to hold this public hearing and consider a 02:15:36.029 --> 02:15:37.039 request for a 02:15:37.039 --> 02:15:40.199 rezoning of approximately 20 acres from a regional center 02:15:40.199 --> 02:15:41.119 commercial downtown 02:15:41.119 --> 02:15:45.659 district to a regional center residential to district this 02:15:45.659 --> 02:15:46.840 property is 02:15:46.840 --> 02:15:49.800 located on the western portion of a larger tract that is 02:15:49.800 --> 02:15:51.159 addressed as 2100 02:15:51.159 --> 02:15:53.859 Mayhill Road and it is located at the end of Hudson Wood 02:15:53.859 --> 02:15:54.880 and Somerset Drive 02:15:54.880 --> 02:15:58.600 the adjoining property uses we have the Providence Place 02:15:58.600 --> 02:16:00.159 apartments to the east 02:16:00.159 --> 02:16:04.149 and the south and the Med Park station is a little bit 02:16:04.149 --> 02:16:05.800 further to the south 02:16:05.800 --> 02:16:10.439 currently the property is zoned RC CD the proposal would be 02:16:10.439 --> 02:16:12.479 a rezoning to RC r2 02:16:12.479 --> 02:16:16.590 the future land use for the area is regional mixed use 02:16:16.590 --> 02:16:17.359 which is a 02:16:17.359 --> 02:16:21.180 designation applied as you can see here primarily to 02:16:21.180 --> 02:16:22.520 properties along 02:16:22.520 --> 02:16:26.880 interchanges on I-35 and primary arterials it promotes 02:16:26.880 --> 02:16:28.159 these as regional 02:16:28.159 --> 02:16:31.319 destinations for a mixture of commercial and institutional 02:16:31.319 --> 02:16:32.280 uses as well as 02:16:32.280 --> 02:16:36.600 promoting a moderate to high density residential use so 02:16:36.600 --> 02:16:38.360 staff's considerations 02:16:38.360 --> 02:16:43.200 for this case the rezoning to RC r2 is consistent with the 02:16:43.200 --> 02:16:43.959 surrounding zoning 02:16:43.959 --> 02:16:47.879 pattern there is no immediate adjacency of RC r2 02:16:47.879 --> 02:16:49.799 designation as you can see here 02:16:49.799 --> 02:16:54.770 the RC r2 designation in this light pink is a rather spars 02:16:54.770 --> 02:16:56.399 ely used but all of 02:16:56.399 --> 02:17:01.680 these designations RC r1 RC r2 as well as the RCC districts 02:17:01.680 --> 02:17:02.680 are all within the 02:17:02.680 --> 02:17:06.000 same family of regional mixed use zoning designations so 02:17:06.000 --> 02:17:07.000 staff considers that 02:17:07.000 --> 02:17:10.530 compatible this request is a down zoning to a less 02:17:10.530 --> 02:17:12.719 intensive district and the RC 02:17:12.719 --> 02:17:15.440 r2 district could provide a transition between the 02:17:15.440 --> 02:17:16.520 surrounding RC r1 02:17:16.520 --> 02:17:19.479 properties which is the least intensive of this family of 02:17:19.479 --> 02:17:20.600 districts to the most 02:17:20.600 --> 02:17:27.930 intensive RCCD that's located along Mayhill so our CCD has 02:17:27.930 --> 02:17:29.239 limitations 02:17:29.239 --> 02:17:32.100 within it for multifamily development that requires they be 02:17:32.100 --> 02:17:32.840 a part of a mixed 02:17:32.840 --> 02:17:36.500 use development with ground floor commercial uses along any 02:17:36.500 --> 02:17:37.360 collector or 02:17:37.360 --> 02:17:42.110 arterial road as a part of this Hudson Wood Road would be 02:17:42.110 --> 02:17:43.559 continued across this 02:17:43.559 --> 02:17:46.719 property towards Mayhill and it is classified as a 02:17:46.719 --> 02:17:48.120 collector so ground 02:17:48.120 --> 02:17:51.840 floor commercial would be required with the rezoning to RC 02:17:51.840 --> 02:17:53.200 r2 multifamily can be 02:17:53.200 --> 02:17:56.170 developed without that mixed use component with the 02:17:56.170 --> 02:17:57.479 approval of an SUP 02:17:57.479 --> 02:18:02.440 and staff felt that given this substantial offset from May 02:18:02.440 --> 02:18:03.520 hill Road of 02:18:03.520 --> 02:18:06.489 this property those commercial uses required under RCCD may 02:18:06.489 --> 02:18:07.440 not be supported 02:18:07.440 --> 02:18:11.260 in this area along a primarily residential street as I 02:18:11.260 --> 02:18:12.479 mentioned this 02:18:12.479 --> 02:18:15.370 is a down zoning RC r2 is much less intensive in terms of 02:18:15.370 --> 02:18:16.079 the scale of 02:18:16.079 --> 02:18:19.239 development with a maximum density of 40 units per acre as 02:18:19.239 --> 02:18:20.639 opposed to 100 under 02:18:20.639 --> 02:18:25.200 the current zoning as well the maximum lot coverage is 02:18:25.200 --> 02:18:26.440 decreased from 90% to 02:18:26.440 --> 02:18:29.930 75 which increases the landscaping area required and it 02:18:29.930 --> 02:18:31.120 limits the maximum 02:18:31.120 --> 02:18:35.069 building height to 50 feet as opposed to 100 notice was 02:18:35.069 --> 02:18:36.600 sent we received one 02:18:36.600 --> 02:18:40.540 neutral response to that and staff is recommending approval 02:18:40.540 --> 02:18:41.600 of this request 02:18:41.600 --> 02:18:44.180 because of its compatibility with the surrounding land uses 02:18:44.180 --> 02:18:45.000 and zoning as well 02:18:45.000 --> 02:18:48.639 as its consistency with the future land use designation and 02:18:48.639 --> 02:18:49.639 I can answer any 02:18:49.639 --> 02:18:58.430 questions at this time questions for staff thank you again 02:18:58.430 --> 02:18:59.479 this is a public 02:18:59.479 --> 02:19:02.010 hearing anyone who would like to speak on this item please 02:19:02.010 --> 02:19:02.680 come forward at this 02:19:02.680 --> 02:19:04.840 time 02:19:11.280 --> 02:19:15.309 please give your name and address my name is Brandon Han 02:19:15.309 --> 02:19:16.680 cock I'm with the 02:19:16.680 --> 02:19:22.040 applicant my address is 6440 North Central Expressway Suite 02:19:22.040 --> 02:19:23.120 900 Dallas 02:19:23.120 --> 02:19:28.680 Texas did you fill out a card for us I did okay put it over 02:19:28.680 --> 02:19:32.479 there no problem 02:19:32.479 --> 02:19:35.350 we'll make sure we've got okay I can do another one I've 02:19:35.350 --> 02:19:36.360 got a hundred of them 02:19:36.360 --> 02:19:41.239 I'm doing the best I can keep up with tonight apologize 02:19:41.239 --> 02:19:44.600 sorry 02:19:56.040 --> 02:19:59.469 thank you Chairman strange and committee members appreciate 02:19:59.469 --> 02:20:00.120 it I also like to 02:20:00.120 --> 02:20:03.280 thank the staff for their help the last few months we've 02:20:03.280 --> 02:20:04.520 been trying to get this 02:20:04.520 --> 02:20:06.299 to the public hearing for a long time and they've been 02:20:06.299 --> 02:20:06.920 really helpful so I 02:20:06.920 --> 02:20:11.760 appreciate that as staff presentation said we are looking 02:20:11.760 --> 02:20:13.680 to zone this site to 02:20:13.680 --> 02:20:17.850 RCR 2 you can see kind of an overall plan here we are 02:20:17.850 --> 02:20:20.200 planning to do two 02:20:20.200 --> 02:20:25.430 projects a family multifamily project 263 units as well as 02:20:25.430 --> 02:20:25.879 a age-restricted 02:20:25.879 --> 02:20:32.000 senior living 160 unit project the site size is just about 02:20:32.000 --> 02:20:34.360 20 acres 02:20:34.360 --> 02:20:38.950 and within that we have a six six point six acre senior 02:20:38.950 --> 02:20:41.079 site and a ten point two 02:20:41.079 --> 02:20:45.209 nine acre family multifamily site and then roughly three 02:20:45.209 --> 02:20:46.959 acre detention site 02:20:46.959 --> 02:20:49.809 some of the amenities we typically offer in our projects 02:20:49.809 --> 02:20:51.120 and will offer here our 02:20:51.120 --> 02:20:56.200 clubhouse with a cyber cafe computer lab a fitness facility 02:20:56.200 --> 02:20:57.959 on both projects each 02:20:57.959 --> 02:21:01.120 of these projects will have their own facilities within 02:21:01.120 --> 02:21:01.879 that the family 02:21:01.879 --> 02:21:05.799 project will have a pool both of them will have dog parks 02:21:05.799 --> 02:21:07.319 and as you'll see 02:21:07.319 --> 02:21:10.780 here we get to the site plan the seniors will have a 02:21:10.780 --> 02:21:12.520 retention pond is kind of a 02:21:12.520 --> 02:21:15.809 main driver amenity area one of the things we love about 02:21:15.809 --> 02:21:16.879 this project is 02:21:16.879 --> 02:21:19.909 it's a true transit oriented development we are right at 02:21:19.909 --> 02:21:21.959 the Med Park station for 02:21:21.959 --> 02:21:26.399 the DCTA a train so we will have a direct connection for 02:21:26.399 --> 02:21:28.319 the family walkway 02:21:28.319 --> 02:21:32.309 through the senior senior development to get to that train 02:21:32.309 --> 02:21:33.440 station and the 02:21:33.440 --> 02:21:37.809 seniors will have direct access off of the project to it we 02:21:37.809 --> 02:21:38.799 also have bus 02:21:38.799 --> 02:21:42.229 transit within a tenth of a mile of the project and we're 02:21:42.229 --> 02:21:43.360 also located right 02:21:43.360 --> 02:21:47.979 adjacent to the medical facilities at Denton regional here 02:21:47.979 --> 02:21:49.040 's kind of the 02:21:49.040 --> 02:21:53.280 general zoning around our project it's all regional it's 02:21:53.280 --> 02:21:54.799 all mostly regional 02:21:54.799 --> 02:22:03.659 RCC downtown or neighborhood or residential so currently we 02:22:03.659 --> 02:22:04.200 're RCCD 02:22:04.200 --> 02:22:08.059 which at our acreage we could do 2,000 units we can build 02:22:08.059 --> 02:22:10.040 up to 100 feet we 02:22:10.040 --> 02:22:14.649 can do max lot coverage of 90 90 percent we're proposing 4 02:22:14.649 --> 02:22:17.000 23 units building 02:22:17.000 --> 02:22:19.149 height is going to be less than 50 feet but that's what 02:22:19.149 --> 02:22:20.719 would be allowed at our 02:22:20.719 --> 02:22:26.040 max lot coverage is 75% here's a site plan you can see the 02:22:26.040 --> 02:22:26.799 southern portion 02:22:26.799 --> 02:22:29.239 that's where our connection to the a train station is we 02:22:29.239 --> 02:22:30.120 don't have a fully 02:22:30.120 --> 02:22:33.120 developed in this site plan but that'll be a nice plaza 02:22:33.120 --> 02:22:35.319 connecting to stock 02:22:35.319 --> 02:22:38.659 bridge which will connect to the a train and here on the 02:22:38.659 --> 02:22:39.639 left sorry I don't have 02:22:39.639 --> 02:22:42.950 a pointer but there will be a direct connection from Hudson 02:22:42.950 --> 02:22:44.020 would for the 02:22:44.020 --> 02:22:46.909 public and for the the the residents of our northern 02:22:46.909 --> 02:22:48.719 property to get through get 02:22:48.719 --> 02:22:52.360 to that connection to the a train station here are some of 02:22:52.360 --> 02:22:53.159 the general 02:22:53.159 --> 02:22:58.120 amenities in the area that we're hoping to play off of and 02:22:58.120 --> 02:22:59.520 just to conclude 02:22:59.520 --> 02:23:03.340 here's some projects we've done in Baton Rouge and other 02:23:03.340 --> 02:23:05.399 cities in Texas that 02:23:05.399 --> 02:23:08.559 kind of show what we've done our track record and typical 02:23:08.559 --> 02:23:09.520 amenity areas and 02:23:09.520 --> 02:23:16.959 unit finishes for our projects any questions thank you 02:23:16.959 --> 02:23:17.920 questions for the 02:23:17.920 --> 02:23:27.860 applicant thank you for your presentation again this is a 02:23:27.860 --> 02:23:28.239 public 02:23:28.239 --> 02:23:31.569 hearing anyone who would like to speak on this item please 02:23:31.569 --> 02:23:32.159 come forward at this 02:23:32.159 --> 02:23:34.319 time 02:23:36.719 --> 02:23:40.319 seeing none I will close the public hearing and open the 02:23:40.319 --> 02:23:41.600 floor for discussion 02:23:41.600 --> 02:23:44.040 or emotion 02:23:47.920 --> 02:24:01.440 Commissioner Beck thank you chair I move approval approval 02:24:01.440 --> 02:24:06.040 of z160027 a 02:24:06.040 --> 02:24:11.239 mr. Roselle second I have a first and a second for approval 02:24:11.239 --> 02:24:14.760 any discussion 02:24:16.520 --> 02:24:20.799 seeing none a call for a vote on the board 02:24:25.280 --> 02:24:32.149 motion carries six to zero we'll move us to our agenda item 02:24:32.149 --> 02:24:33.639 D and I will open 02:24:33.639 --> 02:24:40.670 the public hearing for s 16 - 0008 a and call on Haley for 02:24:40.670 --> 02:24:43.280 presentation 02:24:46.520 --> 02:24:59.559 all right good evening again so this is case sts 16 0008 02:24:59.559 --> 02:25:00.799 also from standard in 02:25:00.799 --> 02:25:05.760 Hudson at Med Park this request is for the specific use 02:25:05.760 --> 02:25:06.520 permit to allow 02:25:06.520 --> 02:25:09.709 multifamily development on the 20 acres that we just saw in 02:25:09.709 --> 02:25:11.639 the rezoning case so 02:25:11.639 --> 02:25:14.069 I've reached through some of this same location at the end 02:25:14.069 --> 02:25:14.840 of Hudson Wooded 02:25:14.840 --> 02:25:18.100 Somerset Road the current zoning as you know is our CCD 02:25:18.100 --> 02:25:19.399 with the request that 02:25:19.399 --> 02:25:23.670 was just recommended for approval for our CR2 again this is 02:25:23.670 --> 02:25:24.600 a regional mixed 02:25:24.600 --> 02:25:28.659 use center as designated by the future land use plan and as 02:25:28.659 --> 02:25:30.000 some of staff's 02:25:30.000 --> 02:25:33.780 considerations as part of this SUP is that pending approval 02:25:33.780 --> 02:25:34.920 of that rezoning 02:25:34.920 --> 02:25:37.930 the applicant is proposing multifamily development that is 02:25:37.930 --> 02:25:38.639 not a part of a 02:25:38.639 --> 02:25:41.920 mixed-use development so the SUP would be the ultimate 02:25:41.920 --> 02:25:43.000 approval for that 02:25:43.000 --> 02:25:47.430 multifamily development this multifamily is consistent with 02:25:47.430 --> 02:25:48.200 the future land use 02:25:48.200 --> 02:25:51.670 designation of regional mixed use that includes the mixture 02:25:51.670 --> 02:25:52.680 residential and 02:25:52.680 --> 02:25:56.209 commercial uses specifically moderate to high density 02:25:56.209 --> 02:25:58.360 residential this SUP does 02:25:58.360 --> 02:26:01.040 comply with the criteria for approval of an SUP which are 02:26:01.040 --> 02:26:02.120 all outlined in your 02:26:02.120 --> 02:26:06.840 backup and just to go through their site plan really 02:26:06.840 --> 02:26:08.399 quickly as we saw they have 02:26:08.399 --> 02:26:12.079 two components the standard on the north side of Hudson 02:26:12.079 --> 02:26:13.520 Wood and the Hudson which 02:26:13.520 --> 02:26:16.680 is the age-restricted portion on the south side as well as 02:26:16.680 --> 02:26:17.760 the approximately 02:26:17.760 --> 02:26:22.129 three acre detention pond so looking specifically at the 02:26:22.129 --> 02:26:23.760 northern development 02:26:23.760 --> 02:26:28.729 the standard it is a 263 units total or is what is proposed 02:26:28.729 --> 02:26:29.239 those are spread 02:26:29.239 --> 02:26:32.559 across four buildings the buildings I've outlined in orange 02:26:32.559 --> 02:26:33.719 here and then in blue 02:26:33.719 --> 02:26:37.079 you can see the open space kind of courtyard areas as well 02:26:37.079 --> 02:26:38.159 as a swimming pool 02:26:38.159 --> 02:26:41.559 that they've proposed in between these buildings the 02:26:41.559 --> 02:26:43.200 breakdown would be 43 one 02:26:43.200 --> 02:26:47.520 bedroom units 135 two-bedroom and 85 three-bedroom all 02:26:47.520 --> 02:26:48.840 buildings are proposed 02:26:48.840 --> 02:26:52.200 to be three stories which approximately 34 feet in height 02:26:52.200 --> 02:26:54.399 and this current site 02:26:54.399 --> 02:26:58.639 plan has approximately 69% lot coverage and there would be 02:26:58.639 --> 02:27:01.079 472 spaces those are 02:27:01.079 --> 02:27:05.040 provided in keeping with the calculations required for 02:27:05.040 --> 02:27:05.579 multifamily 02:27:05.579 --> 02:27:08.840 development and those are provided along an interior 02:27:08.840 --> 02:27:10.600 private street system as well 02:27:10.600 --> 02:27:13.760 as a few spaces on Hudson Wood Drive and they're also 02:27:13.760 --> 02:27:15.479 proposing bicycle parking 02:27:15.479 --> 02:27:19.940 for this portion of the development on the south side we 02:27:19.940 --> 02:27:21.399 have the independent 02:27:21.399 --> 02:27:24.559 senior living or age-restricted multifamily component known 02:27:24.559 --> 02:27:24.799 as the 02:27:24.799 --> 02:27:28.659 Hudson it is two buildings outlined in orange there 02:27:28.659 --> 02:27:30.600 approximately 160 units 02:27:30.600 --> 02:27:34.799 112 one bedrooms 48 two bedrooms the buildings are proposed 02:27:34.799 --> 02:27:35.799 at the same scale 02:27:35.799 --> 02:27:39.120 three stories or approximately 34 feet tall and this 02:27:39.120 --> 02:27:41.639 property does feature this 02:27:41.639 --> 02:27:45.430 retention or detention pond and as a central feature of the 02:27:45.430 --> 02:27:46.559 development and 02:27:46.559 --> 02:27:50.379 they're providing 160 parking spaces for the senior living 02:27:50.379 --> 02:27:52.760 portion and no bicycle 02:27:52.760 --> 02:27:57.270 parking was shown on the site plan for this portion moving 02:27:57.270 --> 02:27:58.040 into their 02:27:58.040 --> 02:28:03.010 landscaping plan they are proposing landscape screening on 02:28:03.010 --> 02:28:04.280 all four sides of 02:28:04.280 --> 02:28:09.239 this larger three acre detention pond shown in green on the 02:28:09.239 --> 02:28:10.559 north side they've 02:28:10.559 --> 02:28:12.850 proposed landscaping that meets the street tree 02:28:12.850 --> 02:28:13.920 requirements for the 02:28:13.920 --> 02:28:17.430 internal street system as well as a type B buffer which is 02:28:17.430 --> 02:28:18.600 required between 02:28:18.600 --> 02:28:21.760 multifamily and single-family uses there are existing 02:28:21.760 --> 02:28:22.879 single-family homes on 02:28:22.879 --> 02:28:28.950 properties to both the north and the east on the south side 02:28:28.950 --> 02:28:29.959 of similar 02:28:29.959 --> 02:28:32.250 landscaping plan again that meets the street tree and 02:28:32.250 --> 02:28:33.479 landscaping requirements 02:28:33.479 --> 02:28:38.760 of the DDC elevations were not provided to staff at this 02:28:38.760 --> 02:28:40.020 time however the 02:28:40.020 --> 02:28:42.879 applicant did indicate their intent is to comply with 02:28:42.879 --> 02:28:44.399 architectural requirements 02:28:44.399 --> 02:28:48.959 of the DDC for multifamily again notification was sent we 02:28:48.959 --> 02:28:50.000 received one 02:28:50.000 --> 02:28:53.719 neutral response and staff is recommending approval of this 02:28:53.719 --> 02:28:54.280 request 02:28:54.280 --> 02:28:58.600 with a few conditions the first being that the developments 02:28:58.600 --> 02:28:59.200 substantially 02:28:59.200 --> 02:29:02.360 comply with the landscaping and site plans that we've shown 02:29:02.360 --> 02:29:03.959 here the second 02:29:03.959 --> 02:29:07.139 being that the proposed multifamily development meet or 02:29:07.139 --> 02:29:07.799 exceed the 02:29:07.799 --> 02:29:12.040 requirements for architectural requirements for multifamily 02:29:12.040 --> 02:29:12.840 outlined in 02:29:12.840 --> 02:29:17.399 the DDC we are proposing to limit the use of certain 02:29:17.399 --> 02:29:19.159 materials EFAS and HDO 02:29:19.159 --> 02:29:24.719 board to only 10% or as accent materials on these buildings 02:29:24.719 --> 02:29:25.440 because for 02:29:25.440 --> 02:29:29.959 multifamily developments staff recommends typically masonry 02:29:29.959 --> 02:29:30.440 materials 02:29:30.440 --> 02:29:34.350 to propose to provide a durability and you know longevity 02:29:34.350 --> 02:29:35.639 of the product and 02:29:35.639 --> 02:29:38.840 our third requirement would be that only monument or 02:29:38.840 --> 02:29:40.440 building signage be used 02:29:40.440 --> 02:29:43.889 along Hudson Wood Drive the applicant did not show any 02:29:43.889 --> 02:29:45.799 signs on their plan but 02:29:45.799 --> 02:29:47.959 we'd like to prohibit the use of pole signs or something 02:29:47.959 --> 02:29:48.920 similar on this drive 02:29:48.920 --> 02:29:52.559 since it is a residential collector Street and with that I 02:29:52.559 --> 02:29:53.559 can answer any 02:29:53.559 --> 02:29:57.159 questions you might have Commissioner Roselle thank you H 02:29:57.159 --> 02:29:57.760 aley for the 02:29:57.760 --> 02:30:00.590 presentation I have a question about the second point for 02:30:00.590 --> 02:30:01.120 the staff 02:30:01.120 --> 02:30:05.959 recommendation it says EIFS and HDO boards the didn't 02:30:05.959 --> 02:30:07.479 development code says 02:30:07.479 --> 02:30:12.319 wood clapping siding would be did siding stucco masonry HDO 02:30:12.319 --> 02:30:14.440 board or other high 02:30:14.440 --> 02:30:20.510 quality material it doesn't mention the IEFS what is of 02:30:20.510 --> 02:30:22.280 those materials listed 02:30:22.280 --> 02:30:25.250 in the development code would be classified under that 02:30:25.250 --> 02:30:27.319 category so if it 02:30:27.319 --> 02:30:29.680 is not specifically called out in the code however it is a 02:30:29.680 --> 02:30:30.680 material that is 02:30:30.680 --> 02:30:33.979 frequently requested to be used on buildings it's a stucco 02:30:33.979 --> 02:30:34.840 like product 02:30:34.840 --> 02:30:38.000 that doesn't have quite the durability of traditional stuc 02:30:38.000 --> 02:30:39.959 co so since it is 02:30:39.959 --> 02:30:42.350 traditionally requested with a lot of developments we felt 02:30:42.350 --> 02:30:43.040 the need to call 02:30:43.040 --> 02:30:45.879 out that that be limited because my understanding is it 02:30:45.879 --> 02:30:46.840 does potentially 02:30:46.840 --> 02:30:49.829 cause some durability problems when it's used on the lower 02:30:49.829 --> 02:30:50.520 portions of 02:30:50.520 --> 02:30:52.950 buildings and things like that over time so within the 02:30:52.950 --> 02:30:54.239 recommendation they would 02:30:54.239 --> 02:30:57.590 still be able to use wood clapboard siding would be did s 02:30:57.590 --> 02:30:59.079 iding stucco is 02:30:59.079 --> 02:31:01.530 that correct yes we're proposing that they meet or exceed 02:31:01.530 --> 02:31:01.920 the other 02:31:01.920 --> 02:31:05.399 requirements which I believe for multifamily requires 40% m 02:31:05.399 --> 02:31:06.159 asonry and then 02:31:06.159 --> 02:31:11.209 the other materials could be from the list that you've seen 02:31:11.209 --> 02:31:12.920 there just so I 02:31:12.920 --> 02:31:16.750 understand generally speaking they an individual could use 02:31:16.750 --> 02:31:18.600 up to 60% HDO 02:31:18.600 --> 02:31:22.129 materials according to code yes and you're wanting to limit 02:31:22.129 --> 02:31:23.159 it to 10% can I 02:31:23.159 --> 02:31:27.250 ask why such a drastic reduction in that ability given the 02:31:27.250 --> 02:31:29.520 code provides 60% 02:31:29.520 --> 02:31:33.159 it's something that staff recommends because of the long- 02:31:33.159 --> 02:31:34.399 term durability of 02:31:34.399 --> 02:31:37.340 the products we feel that traditional masonry as required 02:31:37.340 --> 02:31:38.479 for up to 40% of 02:31:38.479 --> 02:31:41.049 the buildings provides for better longevity of the product 02:31:41.049 --> 02:31:41.920 over time and 02:31:41.920 --> 02:31:45.670 who over the course of the the building would be 02:31:45.670 --> 02:31:48.280 responsible for any durability 02:31:48.280 --> 02:31:51.129 issues that would fall to the property owner for 02:31:51.129 --> 02:31:52.280 maintenance of the property of 02:31:52.280 --> 02:32:01.280 the buildings okay we'll speak more later any other 02:32:01.280 --> 02:32:04.399 questions for staff thank 02:32:04.399 --> 02:32:07.340 you I believe the applicant also has a presentation for 02:32:07.340 --> 02:32:10.479 this okay I don't have 02:32:10.479 --> 02:32:20.319 a card it's a public hearing so please come forward if you 02:32:20.319 --> 02:32:21.399 get some of this you 02:32:21.399 --> 02:32:24.000 know I see it now you've got a second on the same card 02:32:24.000 --> 02:32:26.479 apologize 02:32:34.200 --> 02:32:41.239 address again Brandon Hancock 6440 North Central Expressway 02:32:41.239 --> 02:32:42.840 Suite 900 Dallas 02:32:42.840 --> 02:32:45.159 Texas 02:32:47.559 --> 02:32:50.290 flip through some of these we've already seen just real 02:32:50.290 --> 02:32:54.200 quick on the site plan 02:32:54.600 --> 02:32:57.459 some of the things I wanted to point out you can see it a 02:32:57.459 --> 02:32:58.959 little bit better here 02:32:58.959 --> 02:33:03.760 we have the walkway connecting to the a train station this 02:33:03.760 --> 02:33:05.280 detention pond is 02:33:05.280 --> 02:33:09.229 probably going to be if we can make it work a wet retention 02:33:09.229 --> 02:33:09.879 so the cult 02:33:09.879 --> 02:33:13.799 retention is a detention so a wet pond if you go to the 02:33:13.799 --> 02:33:15.719 Hudson it's it's going 02:33:15.719 --> 02:33:19.719 to be a retention pond the water feature I wanted to point 02:33:19.719 --> 02:33:21.959 out I know that 02:33:21.959 --> 02:33:25.819 Commissioner Beck you had a question about bicycle that was 02:33:25.819 --> 02:33:27.280 a mistake by the 02:33:27.280 --> 02:33:30.569 the architect we will have bike parking that's that's an 02:33:30.569 --> 02:33:32.440 amenity on all our 02:33:32.440 --> 02:33:37.149 projects from so that was a overlook on my part I didn't 02:33:37.149 --> 02:33:37.920 catch that they missed 02:33:37.920 --> 02:33:41.680 that so let me ask what are the bike mission back thank you 02:33:41.680 --> 02:33:42.879 chair sorry what 02:33:42.879 --> 02:33:44.959 are the bike amenities that you're providing in the 02:33:44.959 --> 02:33:46.360 standard that you weren't 02:33:46.360 --> 02:33:49.959 until now I'm gonna fit what I'm sorry what are the bike 02:33:49.959 --> 02:33:51.159 amenities that you're 02:33:51.159 --> 02:33:54.450 providing in the standard that you were up until now not 02:33:54.450 --> 02:33:55.920 providing in the Hudson 02:33:55.920 --> 02:33:59.379 I mean it hasn't been fully flushed out but it's either 02:33:59.379 --> 02:34:01.440 gonna be interior a lot 02:34:01.440 --> 02:34:04.329 of what we do now are interior bike storage rooms if we 02:34:04.329 --> 02:34:05.440 have the space to do 02:34:05.440 --> 02:34:10.430 it if not we'll have secure bike parking within the parking 02:34:10.430 --> 02:34:12.040 areas behind the 02:34:12.040 --> 02:34:15.920 fences behind the vehicle access gates we try to have a for 02:34:15.920 --> 02:34:17.040 lack of a better 02:34:17.040 --> 02:34:20.399 term a big room with part with with secure bike parking 02:34:20.399 --> 02:34:21.600 indoors okay thank 02:34:21.600 --> 02:34:26.600 you Mr. Hancock and I will now remove the ages label from 02:34:26.600 --> 02:34:32.159 you that I did we do we 02:34:32.159 --> 02:34:36.120 do have one ask on the staff recommendations until I saw 02:34:36.120 --> 02:34:37.000 the staff 02:34:37.000 --> 02:34:40.280 report we had not heard about the recommendation for no 02:34:40.280 --> 02:34:41.920 more than 10% of 02:34:41.920 --> 02:34:47.989 the HDO and the EIFS and maybe it's a clarification issue 02:34:47.989 --> 02:34:49.559 we intend to 02:34:49.559 --> 02:34:53.670 definitely do 40% masonry and in our case I know the the 02:34:53.670 --> 02:34:54.840 code calls out 02:34:54.840 --> 02:35:00.409 stucco masonry I'm sorry brick and stone is considered m 02:35:00.409 --> 02:35:02.479 asonry as a company we 02:35:02.479 --> 02:35:05.879 don't do stucco we've all done stucco projects in Texas 02:35:05.879 --> 02:35:06.719 Louisiana Arizona 02:35:06.719 --> 02:35:09.079 California they don't turn out well they leak they're 02:35:09.079 --> 02:35:11.319 horrible so we do brick and 02:35:11.319 --> 02:35:17.559 so for that 10% means 90% brick and if that's the case the 02:35:17.559 --> 02:35:18.680 project just doesn't 02:35:18.680 --> 02:35:24.840 work financially so we would propose meeting the code as 02:35:24.840 --> 02:35:26.719 stated in 35 13 13 02:35:26.719 --> 02:35:31.079 - a minimum 40% if the budget allows we obviously amp that 02:35:31.079 --> 02:35:32.079 up I have some 02:35:32.079 --> 02:35:36.120 examples here so you can see the development code versus 02:35:36.120 --> 02:35:36.479 the staff 02:35:36.479 --> 02:35:41.479 recommendation this is a project we built it's 02:35:41.479 --> 02:35:44.399 approximately 40% and so it's 02:35:44.399 --> 02:35:47.219 not an exact science because of the windows and the way it 02:35:47.219 --> 02:35:48.120 's calculated with 02:35:48.120 --> 02:35:51.040 the net openings but if you look it's typically the first 02:35:51.040 --> 02:35:51.840 story would be all 02:35:51.840 --> 02:35:54.840 brick and then you obviously have vertical accents or you 02:35:54.840 --> 02:35:55.680 know however the 02:35:55.680 --> 02:36:00.680 architect does it to achieve that 40% masonry here's 02:36:00.680 --> 02:36:02.399 another project so we 02:36:02.399 --> 02:36:06.860 would probably be doing these panelized Hardy systems on to 02:36:06.860 --> 02:36:08.559 give it that kind of 02:36:08.559 --> 02:36:11.319 that's a newer product it gives a kind of more of a modern 02:36:11.319 --> 02:36:12.420 look you also have 02:36:12.420 --> 02:36:15.180 this siding product so if you're not familiar Hardy is a 02:36:15.180 --> 02:36:16.200 brand name but it's 02:36:16.200 --> 02:36:20.969 a cement fiber cement board and it is durable it's got a 02:36:20.969 --> 02:36:22.840 warranty it's a newer 02:36:22.840 --> 02:36:27.389 product that's come out and been more widely used last 10 02:36:27.389 --> 02:36:28.680 years in our opinion 02:36:28.680 --> 02:36:32.760 it's vastly superior to stucco here's another project where 02:36:32.760 --> 02:36:33.639 you'll see the 02:36:33.639 --> 02:36:36.600 the brick veneer I'm sorry the brick base and then you see 02:36:36.600 --> 02:36:37.059 the vertical 02:36:37.059 --> 02:36:40.920 accents of brick and then the rest of it's the Hardy 02:36:40.920 --> 02:36:43.440 product type paneling and 02:36:43.440 --> 02:36:46.200 again so we think this is a quality product it gives you a 02:36:46.200 --> 02:36:47.000 quality approach 02:36:47.000 --> 02:36:51.440 it's long-lasting and it's really the industry standard 02:36:51.440 --> 02:36:54.680 here's the elevations 02:36:54.680 --> 02:36:57.930 are not fully developed these are conceptual renderings 02:36:57.930 --> 02:36:58.799 that we've the 02:36:58.799 --> 02:37:02.389 design approach we're going to take this has brick and I'm 02:37:02.389 --> 02:37:03.760 sorry you can't zoom 02:37:03.760 --> 02:37:07.879 in on it I don't think this has brick accents it has Hardy 02:37:07.879 --> 02:37:09.479 paneling for the 02:37:09.479 --> 02:37:12.670 standard and for the Hudson a more traditional look with 02:37:12.670 --> 02:37:13.799 brick and again the 02:37:13.799 --> 02:37:19.870 Hardy paneling to round it out again these are the pictures 02:37:19.870 --> 02:37:20.280 you've already 02:37:20.280 --> 02:37:25.120 seen of other projects we've built so that would be my 02:37:25.120 --> 02:37:26.719 request that that we 02:37:26.719 --> 02:37:30.709 for number two it's per code and I guess my other question 02:37:30.709 --> 02:37:32.040 is just on the on the 02:37:32.040 --> 02:37:34.219 number three on the signage I don't have an issue with that 02:37:34.219 --> 02:37:35.120 I guess I just would 02:37:35.120 --> 02:37:39.500 like maybe some clarification on you know sign shall be 02:37:39.500 --> 02:37:41.559 designed in our only 02:37:41.559 --> 02:37:45.420 monument and building signage I think there might be some 02:37:45.420 --> 02:37:46.239 issues with 02:37:46.239 --> 02:37:49.399 interpretation when we get down to it so if we can just say 02:37:49.399 --> 02:37:50.200 no pole signs or 02:37:50.200 --> 02:37:55.440 where are you after instead of so that would be my request 02:37:55.440 --> 02:37:58.319 I call on staff to answer the question thank you as it 02:37:58.319 --> 02:37:59.479 relates to the signage 02:37:59.479 --> 02:38:01.879 pretty much when we're talking about sign you wanted 02:38:01.879 --> 02:38:02.840 monuments of no pole 02:38:02.840 --> 02:38:06.309 sign so we would acquiesce to that that's not an issue and 02:38:06.309 --> 02:38:07.680 just as it 02:38:07.680 --> 02:38:10.840 relates to the elevations I just wanted to point out that 02:38:10.840 --> 02:38:11.799 there was little very 02:38:11.799 --> 02:38:14.969 little clarity on what elevations would be provided so we 02:38:14.969 --> 02:38:16.239 wanted to ensure that 02:38:16.239 --> 02:38:18.819 we weren't compromising the style of the development but we 02:38:18.819 --> 02:38:19.799 would be willing to 02:38:19.799 --> 02:38:25.200 discuss the elevations proposed by the applicant 02:38:26.840 --> 02:38:31.309 Commissioner Taylor thank you chair so I was just trying to 02:38:31.309 --> 02:38:32.920 clarify I'm not very 02:38:32.920 --> 02:38:37.180 familiar with these acronyms HDO are you saying Hardy is is 02:38:37.180 --> 02:38:42.000 a type of HDO so I'm 02:38:42.000 --> 02:38:45.159 sorry I don't have the acronym on top but I believe HDO is 02:38:45.159 --> 02:38:45.920 meaning fiber 02:38:45.920 --> 02:38:48.940 cement board if that's not the case then I would love to 02:38:48.940 --> 02:38:51.000 talk about that but my 02:38:51.000 --> 02:38:53.370 understanding is that is a another word for fiber cement 02:38:53.370 --> 02:38:54.639 board Hardy is a brand 02:38:54.639 --> 02:38:58.559 name Niche ha is another I mean it's okay yeah and I'm 02:38:58.559 --> 02:38:59.280 familiar with Hardy 02:38:59.280 --> 02:39:01.219 that but I'm not familiar with HD that's what I'm trying to 02:39:01.219 --> 02:39:02.079 understand like that 02:39:02.079 --> 02:39:08.540 so the if the restriction on number two was to restrict EIF 02:39:08.540 --> 02:39:11.319 s to 10% or less and 02:39:11.319 --> 02:39:15.799 not mention HDO would that still be acceptable or would 02:39:15.799 --> 02:39:16.600 that be acceptable 02:39:16.600 --> 02:39:22.389 to you I believe so that yeah yes what I mean that's that 02:39:22.389 --> 02:39:23.200 can you what kind of 02:39:23.200 --> 02:39:27.909 type of product is that if it's your information she's 02:39:27.909 --> 02:39:29.799 right yeah I don't 02:39:29.799 --> 02:39:33.889 think we'd use a sheening as an exterior product it's a st 02:39:33.889 --> 02:39:35.399 ucco it's like a stucco 02:39:35.399 --> 02:39:38.860 which you don't use it's styrofoam with concrete over the 02:39:38.860 --> 02:39:40.319 top yeah so I would be 02:39:40.319 --> 02:39:45.079 acceptable okay so you would want a first or would not 02:39:45.079 --> 02:39:50.559 leave us I'm fine 02:39:50.559 --> 02:39:57.709 with just the EIF is being 10% okay got you okay 02:39:57.709 --> 02:40:00.399 commissioner Beck thank you 02:40:00.399 --> 02:40:06.600 chair and I would support the use of a Hardy material I 02:40:06.600 --> 02:40:07.799 worked with new housing 02:40:07.799 --> 02:40:12.239 for 20 years and they used it and it is a very fine product 02:40:12.239 --> 02:40:13.280 long-lasting durable 02:40:13.280 --> 02:40:16.920 I think chairman strange would agreement I'm sure he's used 02:40:16.920 --> 02:40:17.959 it in a lot of his 02:40:17.959 --> 02:40:26.000 building so I don't have a problem with the HDO I was gonna 02:40:26.000 --> 02:40:27.680 echo Commissioner 02:40:27.680 --> 02:40:30.579 Roselle stole my thunder on my note for item 2 and so I 02:40:30.579 --> 02:40:31.920 would definitely picked 02:40:31.920 --> 02:40:35.190 up on that and I appreciate you coming forth so all the 02:40:35.190 --> 02:40:37.280 other conditions are 02:40:37.280 --> 02:40:41.090 fine except for on item 2 we just want to remove the EIF us 02:40:41.090 --> 02:40:41.959 I mean excuse me 02:40:41.959 --> 02:40:45.520 keep the EIF us and remove the HDO requirement and 02:40:45.520 --> 02:40:47.399 everything else is fine 02:40:47.399 --> 02:40:50.219 I think they were gonna clarify the number three would be 02:40:50.219 --> 02:40:50.879 no pulse sign 02:40:50.879 --> 02:41:01.430 instead of the way it's working okay I do now commissioner 02:41:01.430 --> 02:41:03.399 Sullivan just to 02:41:03.399 --> 02:41:09.520 clarify so that the HEO would to go back to the 40% limit 02:41:09.520 --> 02:41:10.879 is that correct 02:41:10.879 --> 02:41:18.030 maybe six sixty sixty percent oh sixty percent okay perfect 02:41:18.030 --> 02:41:19.360 thank you sure 02:41:21.719 --> 02:41:25.920 any other questions for the applicant 02:41:26.000 --> 02:41:29.159 seen him thank you sir I appreciate the clarifications 02:41:29.159 --> 02:41:30.879 again this is a public 02:41:30.879 --> 02:41:37.649 hearing I have one card from Kevin Nelms not wishing to 02:41:37.649 --> 02:41:38.719 speak in support of the 02:41:38.719 --> 02:41:45.510 project anybody else to speak on this item it is a public 02:41:45.510 --> 02:41:48.200 hearing seeing none 02:41:48.200 --> 02:41:50.840 I will close the public hearing and open the floor for 02:41:50.840 --> 02:41:52.040 discussion or a motion 02:41:52.040 --> 02:41:56.559 Commissioner Taylor thank you chair I move approval with 02:41:56.559 --> 02:41:57.840 some of staff 02:41:57.840 --> 02:42:01.319 recommendations staff recommendation one as written staff 02:42:01.319 --> 02:42:02.399 recommendation two 02:42:02.399 --> 02:42:06.690 striking the word HDO board and changing staff 02:42:06.690 --> 02:42:11.600 recommendation three to be no pull 02:42:11.600 --> 02:42:14.850 signage shall be used along Hudson would drive sign shall 02:42:14.850 --> 02:42:16.120 be in accordance with 02:42:16.120 --> 02:42:20.799 the dimensional requirements in chapter 33 of code of ordin 02:42:20.799 --> 02:42:22.680 ances Commissioner 02:42:22.680 --> 02:42:27.159 Ellis I will second as stated okay we have a first and a 02:42:27.159 --> 02:42:28.559 second for approval 02:42:28.559 --> 02:42:38.000 with conditions any discussion seeing none will call for a 02:42:38.000 --> 02:42:40.399 vote on board 02:42:47.200 --> 02:42:59.639 motion carries six to zero that will move us to item II I 02:42:59.639 --> 02:43:01.680 think since we've 02:43:01.680 --> 02:43:04.510 been going for a while it is and I think our next item two 02:43:04.510 --> 02:43:05.680 items we're going to 02:43:05.680 --> 02:43:10.829 go for quite some time at 8 o 6 I'm going to call a recess 02:43:10.829 --> 02:43:12.159 and we will take 02:43:12.159 --> 02:43:16.319 a recess maximum of ten minutes 02:43:17.200 --> 02:43:33.430 good evening and welcome back I'm going to call us back to 02:43:33.430 --> 02:43:37.559 order at 820 the next 02:43:37.559 --> 02:43:41.280 item we have on our agenda is item E and at this time I'm 02:43:41.280 --> 02:43:42.559 going to open the 02:43:42.559 --> 02:43:49.340 public hearing for z16 - 0 0 2 3 a and I will call on Julie 02:43:49.340 --> 02:43:50.360 Wyatt for 02:43:50.360 --> 02:43:53.520 presentation and just as a housekeeping item I've got 02:43:53.520 --> 02:43:55.280 received one card from an 02:43:55.280 --> 02:43:59.260 Eleanor Swan but it's not marked for which agenda item you 02:43:59.260 --> 02:44:00.600 wish to speak for 02:44:00.600 --> 02:44:05.750 so enough it's this one or the next one Eleanor Swan Ele 02:44:05.750 --> 02:44:07.760 anor Swan you want to 02:44:07.760 --> 02:44:12.579 speak on this item or the next item well I apologize you 02:44:12.579 --> 02:44:14.120 don't want to be in 02:44:14.120 --> 02:44:19.040 support but which item would it be this item okay 02:44:25.000 --> 02:44:28.600 thank you sorry hold you up no that's all right good 02:44:28.600 --> 02:44:29.520 evening I'm Julie Wyatt 02:44:29.520 --> 02:44:33.290 senior planner with the city of Denton I'm presenting z 16 02:44:33.290 --> 02:44:34.799 23 park 7 to you this 02:44:34.799 --> 02:44:38.760 evening the location of the request is south of scripture 02:44:38.760 --> 02:44:40.719 it is between normal 02:44:40.719 --> 02:44:46.100 and Bryan it's about 1250 feet north of the UNT campus that 02:44:46.100 --> 02:44:47.520 's about a five to 02:44:47.520 --> 02:44:51.709 ten minute walk so just to orient you to the site also 02:44:51.709 --> 02:44:53.040 wanted to let you know the 02:44:53.040 --> 02:44:58.500 request involves three tracks one of the tracks the largest 02:44:58.500 --> 02:45:00.120 and I'm indicating 02:45:00.120 --> 02:45:04.450 it here has split zoning on it a portion of it is DCG and a 02:45:04.450 --> 02:45:05.959 portion of its dr2 02:45:05.959 --> 02:45:08.840 we'll go over that in a minute and then it includes two two 02:45:08.840 --> 02:45:09.879 other tracks to the 02:45:09.879 --> 02:45:14.459 south of that so the request before you is to consider a 02:45:14.459 --> 02:45:16.479 rezoning for 02:45:16.479 --> 02:45:20.719 approximately 1.39 acres from downtown residential to 02:45:20.719 --> 02:45:21.920 district to D 02:45:21.920 --> 02:45:25.940 downtown commercial general district the applicant has 02:45:25.940 --> 02:45:27.600 indicated that they would 02:45:27.600 --> 02:45:35.440 like to develop the site with multifamily development so so 02:45:35.440 --> 02:45:36.639 well first 02:45:36.639 --> 02:45:41.600 go over the the existing zoning pattern as well as the 02:45:41.600 --> 02:45:44.159 existing land uses so 02:45:44.159 --> 02:45:47.760 here in black is the subject property and here it's not 02:45:47.760 --> 02:45:49.200 very clear but you can 02:45:49.200 --> 02:45:52.420 see that here's the larger tract the the portion of it to 02:45:52.420 --> 02:45:53.639 the north has the the 02:45:53.639 --> 02:45:57.569 existing DCG zoning and then this is the subject property 02:45:57.569 --> 02:45:58.959 that we're talking 02:45:58.959 --> 02:46:05.159 about today the subject site is developed with a it was an 02:46:05.159 --> 02:46:05.920 institutional 02:46:05.920 --> 02:46:11.280 use that has been vacant for for a few years there's also 02:46:11.280 --> 02:46:12.479 two single-family 02:46:12.479 --> 02:46:18.549 homes on the subject property it is it is situated in a 02:46:18.549 --> 02:46:20.280 four block area that's 02:46:20.280 --> 02:46:24.280 north of the UNT campus this area has a primary zoning 02:46:24.280 --> 02:46:26.559 designation of dr2 it's 02:46:26.559 --> 02:46:30.440 developed with single-family uses with single-family dwell 02:46:30.440 --> 02:46:32.040 ings that are used as 02:46:32.040 --> 02:46:36.159 multifamily it's also developed with multifamily and some 02:46:36.159 --> 02:46:37.079 commercial uses 02:46:37.079 --> 02:46:39.930 within it so it's a mixed-use area to the north of the 02:46:39.930 --> 02:46:41.440 subject property across 02:46:41.440 --> 02:46:45.879 across from stricture scripture you have NRM U12 and NRM 02:46:45.879 --> 02:46:48.120 you those areas are 02:46:48.120 --> 02:46:52.649 developed with with multifamily dwellings with some single- 02:46:52.649 --> 02:46:52.979 family 02:46:52.979 --> 02:46:57.680 dwellings and some office uses to the south of the property 02:46:57.680 --> 02:46:59.440 once once again 02:46:59.440 --> 02:47:05.540 is the UNT campus and then I'm surrounding the area is is 02:47:05.540 --> 02:47:07.120 an area of 02:47:07.120 --> 02:47:10.030 established single-family traditional neighborhoods and 02:47:10.030 --> 02:47:11.239 those all have an NR 02:47:11.239 --> 02:47:15.180 3 zoning designation and our three does not permit multif 02:47:15.180 --> 02:47:16.319 amily it doesn't permit 02:47:16.319 --> 02:47:19.129 commercial development it is one of our lower density 02:47:19.129 --> 02:47:21.760 zoning districts and then 02:47:21.760 --> 02:47:25.729 and then there are two areas in in the vicinity of the 02:47:25.729 --> 02:47:28.079 subject property that 02:47:28.079 --> 02:47:30.860 have historic district overlays we have the West Oak 02:47:30.860 --> 02:47:32.399 historic district and then 02:47:32.399 --> 02:47:36.319 the Oak history historic district any properties within 02:47:36.319 --> 02:47:38.280 those areas if they 02:47:38.280 --> 02:47:41.440 wanted to make changes to the facade of those properties 02:47:41.440 --> 02:47:42.799 would have to obtain a 02:47:42.799 --> 02:47:45.459 certificate of appropriateness either through our historic 02:47:45.459 --> 02:47:46.520 preservation officer 02:47:46.520 --> 02:47:50.170 or through the historic Landmark Commission and then and 02:47:50.170 --> 02:47:50.760 then the 02:47:50.760 --> 02:47:53.639 properties in the hot pink those actually have historic 02:47:53.639 --> 02:47:54.879 designations on 02:47:54.879 --> 02:47:59.270 those individual properties so there's a lot of layers in 02:47:59.270 --> 02:48:02.440 this area so yeah all 02:48:02.440 --> 02:48:06.209 right so the future land use of the subject property is 02:48:06.209 --> 02:48:06.879 neighborhood 02:48:06.879 --> 02:48:10.479 university compatibility area these are areas within the 02:48:10.479 --> 02:48:11.840 city that are affected 02:48:11.840 --> 02:48:15.649 by their proximity to the universities so TWU and UNT in 02:48:15.649 --> 02:48:17.959 this case it's UNT the 02:48:17.959 --> 02:48:21.200 intent is to create compatible form and land uses for areas 02:48:21.200 --> 02:48:22.120 that serve both 02:48:22.120 --> 02:48:25.530 those established neighborhoods that we talked about and 02:48:25.530 --> 02:48:27.479 the universities you 02:48:27.479 --> 02:48:30.639 want to have a gradual transition in scale use and 02:48:30.639 --> 02:48:32.079 character and you want to 02:48:32.079 --> 02:48:36.920 encourage uses in close proximity to encourage a multimodal 02:48:36.920 --> 02:48:37.840 transportation 02:48:37.840 --> 02:48:42.079 pattern that that encourages walking and biking just to 02:48:42.079 --> 02:48:43.600 stay on this map a little 02:48:43.600 --> 02:48:47.899 bit so so here is the subject property this sort of light 02:48:47.899 --> 02:48:49.000 hatch blue that's 02:48:49.000 --> 02:48:53.290 the neighborhood university compatibility area to just to 02:48:53.290 --> 02:48:54.040 the north of 02:48:54.040 --> 02:48:58.120 that this is that area that has the NRMU and NRMU 12 zoning 02:48:58.120 --> 02:49:00.079 and that has a future 02:49:00.079 --> 02:49:02.950 land use designation of neighborhood mixed use it's kind of 02:49:02.950 --> 02:49:04.239 the commercial to 02:49:04.239 --> 02:49:07.430 neighborhood serving commercial and then you have the low 02:49:07.430 --> 02:49:08.799 density residential and 02:49:08.799 --> 02:49:14.159 that that is on those those traditional established single- 02:49:14.159 --> 02:49:15.760 family neighborhoods 02:49:15.760 --> 02:49:19.840 so the considerations that staff looked at when we analyzed 02:49:19.840 --> 02:49:20.959 the request was 02:49:20.959 --> 02:49:23.250 first we looked to sub chapter 3 of the Denton Development 02:49:23.250 --> 02:49:24.159 Code and the criteria 02:49:24.159 --> 02:49:27.319 for approval the first criteria being does it meet the 02:49:27.319 --> 02:49:28.000 future land use 02:49:28.000 --> 02:49:33.319 designation in this instance the density and commercial 02:49:33.319 --> 02:49:35.559 development are something 02:49:35.559 --> 02:49:40.530 that is desired near a university area and DCG it permits 02:49:40.530 --> 02:49:41.440 both you know a 02:49:41.440 --> 02:49:45.670 density that that is appropriate for this area as well as 02:49:45.670 --> 02:49:47.840 some commercial uses 02:49:47.840 --> 02:49:51.909 DCG it because of the commercial uses because of the mixed 02:49:51.909 --> 02:49:53.159 use nature in the 02:49:53.159 --> 02:49:56.639 density and permitted with it it fosters the walkability 02:49:56.639 --> 02:49:57.879 the livability and the 02:49:57.879 --> 02:50:02.059 vibrancy on a track that has been in disuse for several 02:50:02.059 --> 02:50:03.879 years staff looked at 02:50:03.879 --> 02:50:07.040 it as a potential catalyst for revitalization an area 02:50:07.040 --> 02:50:07.959 between UNT and 02:50:07.959 --> 02:50:12.729 those established neighborhoods and the existing zoning 02:50:12.729 --> 02:50:14.239 pattern and those 02:50:14.239 --> 02:50:17.920 physical barriers scripture Street those those that grid 02:50:17.920 --> 02:50:19.399 Street pattern does 02:50:19.399 --> 02:50:23.340 provide unnecessary transition between the request and 02:50:23.340 --> 02:50:24.799 those single-family 02:50:24.799 --> 02:50:27.959 neighborhoods that we want to protect so let's go back to 02:50:27.959 --> 02:50:29.159 that zoning map so you 02:50:29.159 --> 02:50:33.120 can say here's the request the adjacent zoning allows that 02:50:33.120 --> 02:50:34.120 the development 02:50:34.120 --> 02:50:38.020 pattern to transition to get to that lower density and the 02:50:38.020 --> 02:50:39.079 lower scale of 02:50:39.079 --> 02:50:45.149 development in the nr3 another criteria for approval is 02:50:45.149 --> 02:50:46.159 adequate infrastructure 02:50:46.159 --> 02:50:50.299 a thorough infrastructure needs assessment will be done at 02:50:50.299 --> 02:50:51.280 platting and 02:50:51.280 --> 02:50:56.079 at site plan and and prior to a site plan being approved or 02:50:56.079 --> 02:50:57.280 plotting be our 02:50:57.280 --> 02:51:00.809 a plat being approved any development would have to meet 02:51:00.809 --> 02:51:01.520 the infrastructure 02:51:01.520 --> 02:51:06.059 requirements within the city of Denton the proposed rez 02:51:06.059 --> 02:51:07.680 oning includes the three 02:51:07.680 --> 02:51:12.530 tracks the largest of which has a split zoning and so by by 02:51:12.530 --> 02:51:14.760 rezoning the entire 02:51:14.760 --> 02:51:18.159 track to the DCG's district it would consolidate the zoning 02:51:18.159 --> 02:51:19.079 designation and 02:51:19.079 --> 02:51:22.350 that would permit the entire subject property to develop to 02:51:22.350 --> 02:51:23.200 develop under 02:51:23.200 --> 02:51:26.020 consistent zoning regulations can resulting in a more 02:51:26.020 --> 02:51:27.319 cohesive development 02:51:27.319 --> 02:51:31.680 and let's look at that so the actual proposed development 02:51:31.680 --> 02:51:32.639 that the applicant 02:51:32.639 --> 02:51:36.370 has indicated would include a total of three acres which is 02:51:36.370 --> 02:51:37.440 outlined in the 02:51:37.440 --> 02:51:42.680 black part of it already has that DCG zoning this is 02:51:42.680 --> 02:51:43.739 actually subject the 02:51:43.739 --> 02:51:48.290 subject to the request and by by rezoning to the DCG and 02:51:48.290 --> 02:51:49.719 consolidating 02:51:49.719 --> 02:51:51.940 that zoning it would provide consistent development 02:51:51.940 --> 02:51:53.120 patterns throughout there 02:51:53.120 --> 02:52:01.379 I'm here some site fight photos the Denton Development Code 02:52:01.379 --> 02:52:02.760 does have 02:52:02.760 --> 02:52:05.649 provisions in it that do address scale and those will come 02:52:05.649 --> 02:52:06.959 into play during the 02:52:06.959 --> 02:52:11.030 site plan and the building permit portion if if the zoning 02:52:11.030 --> 02:52:12.000 would be approved 02:52:12.000 --> 02:52:15.809 that would come in during the site plan and one of those 02:52:15.809 --> 02:52:17.280 things includes the 02:52:17.280 --> 02:52:21.090 residential proximity slope which allows which requires 02:52:21.090 --> 02:52:22.600 multifamily development 02:52:22.600 --> 02:52:29.120 to step back development over over 40 feet in order to 02:52:29.120 --> 02:52:30.840 maintain a human scale 02:52:30.840 --> 02:52:34.979 on at the street level and reduce the visual impacts for 02:52:34.979 --> 02:52:36.360 adjacent single-family 02:52:36.360 --> 02:52:43.010 uses it's not it's not applicable to this project but there 02:52:43.010 --> 02:52:43.719 are also 02:52:43.719 --> 02:52:47.090 potentially minimum setbacks and buffers when you do have a 02:52:47.090 --> 02:52:48.000 mix of uses in a 02:52:48.000 --> 02:52:52.620 zoning district or in an area and one thing that the 02:52:52.620 --> 02:52:55.040 neighborhood and that that 02:52:55.040 --> 02:52:57.440 we heard during the neighborhood meetings were concerns 02:52:57.440 --> 02:52:58.360 about traffic and 02:52:58.360 --> 02:53:03.200 I know that's a really big issue in that area because of 02:53:03.200 --> 02:53:05.639 the University so 02:53:05.639 --> 02:53:08.629 typically when we think of traffic and we think of too many 02:53:08.629 --> 02:53:09.600 cars on the roads 02:53:09.600 --> 02:53:12.000 we think well build bigger roads right that's that's 02:53:12.000 --> 02:53:13.260 typically how cities have 02:53:13.260 --> 02:53:16.790 addressed that but there is a concept called neighbor 02:53:16.790 --> 02:53:18.079 transportation efficient 02:53:18.079 --> 02:53:23.600 development and studies have shown that when you broaden 02:53:23.600 --> 02:53:25.620 your your scope when 02:53:25.620 --> 02:53:28.639 you're talking about transportation we're talking about 02:53:28.639 --> 02:53:30.040 traffic to not only 02:53:30.040 --> 02:53:33.360 include the roadways and that signals and all the things 02:53:33.360 --> 02:53:34.520 that we do in order 02:53:34.520 --> 02:53:37.459 for cars to move through streets more efficiently but also 02:53:37.459 --> 02:53:38.280 look at the land 02:53:38.280 --> 02:53:43.040 uses within a city and and and look at how those affect the 02:53:43.040 --> 02:53:44.719 amount of cars and 02:53:44.719 --> 02:53:49.479 the amount of vehicle trips per day that that our citizens 02:53:49.479 --> 02:53:52.879 have or undertake so 02:53:52.879 --> 02:53:57.670 so so studies have shown that compact mixed-use development 02:53:57.670 --> 02:53:58.760 near desired 02:53:58.760 --> 02:54:02.569 destinations such as employment centers such as university 02:54:02.569 --> 02:54:03.559 schools such as 02:54:03.559 --> 02:54:07.690 transit oriented developments that they that they result in 02:54:07.690 --> 02:54:09.159 fewer vehicle trips 02:54:09.159 --> 02:54:12.590 because when you place people within a walkable distance 02:54:12.590 --> 02:54:13.920 when you place them in 02:54:13.920 --> 02:54:18.399 places that they can have other options for for for moving 02:54:18.399 --> 02:54:19.959 about the city that 02:54:19.959 --> 02:54:23.450 they would they would potentially choose those and reduce 02:54:23.450 --> 02:54:24.239 the number of daily 02:54:24.239 --> 02:54:29.129 trips conversely when you maintain lower densities you 02:54:29.129 --> 02:54:30.840 actually end up spreading 02:54:30.840 --> 02:54:34.280 things out and you sprawl the students in this case 02:54:34.280 --> 02:54:35.399 throughout the city I'm 02:54:35.399 --> 02:54:39.459 inducing them to to get in the car to drive so by by 02:54:39.459 --> 02:54:41.840 getting the density near 02:54:41.840 --> 02:54:45.600 places like UNT places that are the dot desire destination 02:54:45.600 --> 02:54:47.000 actually takes the 02:54:47.000 --> 02:54:49.219 cars off the road because they park their car and they 02:54:49.219 --> 02:54:50.200 actually walk or bike 02:54:50.200 --> 02:54:56.270 to the destination and then here is a map that that looks 02:54:56.270 --> 02:54:58.000 at that so I just 02:54:58.000 --> 02:55:03.229 so I just chose the middle parcel and so here's here's a 02:55:03.229 --> 02:55:04.879 portion of the of the 02:55:04.879 --> 02:55:08.889 request and then this is the quarter mile buffer so you can 02:55:08.889 --> 02:55:09.879 see a quarter 02:55:09.879 --> 02:55:15.239 mile is about you know a five to ten minute walk so you can 02:55:15.239 --> 02:55:17.719 see that this area 02:55:17.719 --> 02:55:22.690 is within that that buffer zone that would induce residents 02:55:22.690 --> 02:55:23.920 to walk or bike 02:55:23.920 --> 02:55:29.479 to that desired location to that University area public 02:55:29.479 --> 02:55:30.399 notification was 02:55:30.399 --> 02:55:36.690 sent out we have received within the 200 foot buffer one in 02:55:36.690 --> 02:55:39.319 opposition and three 02:55:39.319 --> 02:55:44.569 in favor so based upon the criteria for approval or their 02:55:44.569 --> 02:55:45.559 consideration staff 02:55:45.559 --> 02:55:49.120 does recommend approval of the request and I'll stand for 02:55:49.120 --> 02:55:50.399 any questions and the 02:55:50.399 --> 02:55:57.159 applicant is here questions for staff 02:55:59.559 --> 02:56:04.879 thank you Julie hold on Commissioner Roselle thank you 02:56:04.879 --> 02:56:06.600 chair thank you for 02:56:06.600 --> 02:56:09.909 your presentation Julie can you just help me contextualize 02:56:09.909 --> 02:56:10.920 the zoning it 02:56:10.920 --> 02:56:14.280 seems like there's like a peninsula that pops up of DCG but 02:56:14.280 --> 02:56:15.399 to the east and west 02:56:15.399 --> 02:56:19.920 and maintains and in our three do you have any context that 02:56:19.920 --> 02:56:22.159 you provide of why 02:56:22.159 --> 02:56:27.549 that is even dr2 on the pencil it just seems like more 02:56:27.549 --> 02:56:28.600 natural that that should 02:56:28.600 --> 02:56:31.989 have all remained yellow in color instead of this little 02:56:31.989 --> 02:56:33.959 pop-up of green do 02:56:33.959 --> 02:56:39.239 you know why I don't understand whether there's that 02:56:39.239 --> 02:56:41.479 inclusion of green to the 02:56:41.479 --> 02:56:45.000 north there unlike the neighborhoods left and right this 02:56:45.000 --> 02:56:46.479 was all zone during 02:56:46.479 --> 02:56:50.200 the citywide rezoning in 2002 and and I don't have that 02:56:50.200 --> 02:56:51.639 that knowledge as to why 02:56:51.639 --> 02:56:54.670 they chose the zoning districts that they did this is a 02:56:54.670 --> 02:56:56.239 mixed-use area so 02:56:56.239 --> 02:56:59.770 there were in 2002 a lot of multifamily dwellings and some 02:56:59.770 --> 02:57:00.719 commercial uses 02:57:00.719 --> 02:57:04.049 within there so I don't know if it would have met you know 02:57:04.049 --> 02:57:05.319 it wouldn't have been 02:57:05.319 --> 02:57:11.840 necessarily that single-family those more intact 02:57:11.840 --> 02:57:13.280 established neighborhoods 02:57:13.280 --> 02:57:15.889 they were at that time there were already some multifamily 02:57:15.889 --> 02:57:16.520 in there so I 02:57:16.520 --> 02:57:21.489 don't know if that played a role in that just curious thing 02:57:21.489 --> 02:57:21.520 sure 02:57:21.520 --> 02:57:26.139 Commissioner Sullivan thank you Judy what exactly is a walk 02:57:26.139 --> 02:57:29.440 able distance well 02:57:29.440 --> 02:57:33.610 I know for me it's not going to be very far it probably 02:57:33.610 --> 02:57:35.399 does depend on on the 02:57:35.399 --> 02:57:40.159 person but you know in planning we tend to think of about a 02:57:40.159 --> 02:57:41.559 15-minute walk is a 02:57:41.559 --> 02:57:44.889 plate is you know a distance somebody would walk I mean it 02:57:44.889 --> 02:57:45.280 would probably 02:57:45.280 --> 02:57:50.290 depend on the destination but you know a five or ten minute 02:57:50.290 --> 02:57:53.159 walk in from a 02:57:53.159 --> 02:57:58.090 planning perspective is definitely a walkable distance 02:57:58.090 --> 02:58:00.000 because when I look at 02:58:00.000 --> 02:58:04.639 the University and where this is to say that it's a short 02:58:04.639 --> 02:58:06.719 distance to UNT is 02:58:06.719 --> 02:58:10.670 somewhat misleading is that it's on the very northern edge 02:58:10.670 --> 02:58:11.520 of where the 02:58:11.520 --> 02:58:15.450 chemistry building is when you go down to where the library 02:58:15.450 --> 02:58:16.559 is it's more of a 02:58:16.559 --> 02:58:20.120 20-minute walk according to Google map I don't know how 02:58:20.120 --> 02:58:22.719 fast they walk to get 02:58:22.719 --> 02:58:26.899 over to fast field or to go across to apache nobody's gonna 02:58:26.899 --> 02:58:28.760 walk from these 02:58:28.760 --> 02:58:32.770 apartments and so I was just curious what a walkable 02:58:32.770 --> 02:58:34.760 distance is and how far 02:58:34.760 --> 02:58:38.530 do you stray from that walkable distance before it becomes 02:58:38.530 --> 02:58:40.760 a bussable distance or 02:58:40.760 --> 02:58:44.370 something of that nature I don't know but let me add one 02:58:44.370 --> 02:58:45.360 one thing to what I 02:58:45.360 --> 02:58:48.889 said it also has to do with context so if if a place has 02:58:48.889 --> 02:58:50.280 good sidewalks and 02:58:50.280 --> 02:58:52.780 street trees and it's an interesting walk people will tend 02:58:52.780 --> 02:58:53.520 to walk farther 02:58:53.520 --> 02:58:57.600 than across maybe a sea of concrete so so it probably 02:58:57.600 --> 02:58:59.479 depends on context and 02:58:59.479 --> 02:59:04.280 and then and then you know how how difficult it is to park 02:59:04.280 --> 02:59:04.840 at the 02:59:04.840 --> 02:59:09.809 destination or how or you know if that person likes to walk 02:59:09.809 --> 02:59:11.319 so but in general 02:59:11.319 --> 02:59:14.479 in planning we tend to think of a 10 to 15 minute walk as 02:59:14.479 --> 02:59:15.280 being something that's 02:59:15.280 --> 02:59:21.350 walkable is this a time where any kind of a traffic study 02:59:21.350 --> 02:59:22.879 would be done or is 02:59:22.879 --> 02:59:26.309 that is that more of the site plan issue a full time to get 02:59:26.309 --> 02:59:27.120 into the other 02:59:27.120 --> 02:59:31.899 discussion a full traffic study would be done during clad 02:59:31.899 --> 02:59:32.600 ding or 02:59:32.600 --> 02:59:37.979 site plan and answer more about timing I know the applicant 02:59:37.979 --> 02:59:38.959 has turned in some 02:59:38.959 --> 02:59:41.940 preliminary numbers but really that would take we would 02:59:41.940 --> 02:59:42.959 take a hard look at 02:59:42.959 --> 02:59:47.840 that during the planning and site plan okay thank you sure 02:59:47.840 --> 02:59:49.799 any other questions 02:59:49.799 --> 02:59:55.200 for staff thank you Julie sure 02:59:59.639 --> 03:00:06.420 have a lot of cards on this item first will be Lee Allison 03:00:06.420 --> 03:00:09.120 as the applicant 03:00:12.959 --> 03:00:42.680 , good evening commissioners I'm Paul 03:00:42.680 --> 03:00:49.309 Levine from Park 7 461 Park Avenue South New York and thank 03:00:49.309 --> 03:00:52.479 you for hearing our 03:00:52.479 --> 03:00:57.120 application this evening with me I have a few members of 03:00:57.120 --> 03:00:59.079 our team Mike Dallas 03:00:59.079 --> 03:01:03.690 who's our JV partner and landowner on this Mike resides in 03:01:03.690 --> 03:01:04.959 Austin we have Lee 03:01:04.959 --> 03:01:08.120 Allison from Allison engineering from here in Denton and 03:01:08.120 --> 03:01:09.559 Ron Butler from our 03:01:09.559 --> 03:01:14.129 architectural firm Humphries and Partners out of Dallas we 03:01:14.129 --> 03:01:15.559 'd like to pool 03:01:15.559 --> 03:01:20.959 our time together if we made to take the 20 minutes 03:01:21.360 --> 03:01:25.579 10 for each of you representing the applicant a total of 20 03:01:25.579 --> 03:01:26.280 for everyone 03:01:26.280 --> 03:01:32.620 representing the applicant okay great thank you first I'd 03:01:32.620 --> 03:01:34.280 like to give you 03:01:34.280 --> 03:01:38.819 just a brief background on Park 7 we're a national multif 03:01:38.819 --> 03:01:41.200 amily developer we 03:01:41.200 --> 03:01:47.270 primarily target the student market we also do retail that 03:01:47.270 --> 03:01:49.520 is built in in 03:01:49.520 --> 03:01:53.659 conjunction with the multifamily development where it's 03:01:53.659 --> 03:01:55.639 appropriate over 03:01:55.639 --> 03:02:00.069 the past 15 years we've we've developed owned and operated 03:02:00.069 --> 03:02:02.239 over 8,000 units in 03:02:02.239 --> 03:02:07.799 15 states around the country typically in a project like 03:02:07.799 --> 03:02:09.600 this will have five 03:02:09.600 --> 03:02:13.479 full-time staff on site as well as 10 part-time employees 03:02:13.479 --> 03:02:14.639 to help with leasing 03:02:14.639 --> 03:02:21.790 and so forth we certainly like Denton and you know what 03:02:21.790 --> 03:02:22.680 really has drawn us 03:02:22.680 --> 03:02:28.139 here is you know it's a great town for local food art you 03:02:28.139 --> 03:02:29.639 've got young growing 03:02:29.639 --> 03:02:34.159 population to two great universities that are growing 03:02:34.159 --> 03:02:36.200 rapidly certainly a 03:02:36.200 --> 03:02:41.479 need for for student housing within a walkable distance to 03:02:41.479 --> 03:02:43.159 campus there's very 03:02:43.159 --> 03:02:47.979 limited opportunities here at the time for that what we're 03:02:47.979 --> 03:02:49.840 here for today is to 03:02:49.840 --> 03:02:54.010 Julie mentioned we really would like to spread out the 03:02:54.010 --> 03:02:55.920 zoning the density that 03:02:55.920 --> 03:03:00.270 we have over a large area as opposed to concentrating it on 03:03:00.270 --> 03:03:02.000 the 1.4 or 5 acre 03:03:02.000 --> 03:03:05.229 DCG portion of the site we'd like to spread it out over a 03:03:05.229 --> 03:03:06.399 larger footprint 03:03:06.399 --> 03:03:13.440 and bring the the average height of the building down this 03:03:13.440 --> 03:03:17.600 slide here basically 03:03:17.600 --> 03:03:21.850 shows the the side in yellow and just to give you an idea 03:03:21.850 --> 03:03:23.440 of proximity to the 03:03:23.440 --> 03:03:27.709 right and red is the okay Hickory historic district and 03:03:27.709 --> 03:03:29.120 West Oak historic 03:03:29.120 --> 03:03:34.399 district in purple and the blue is the University outline 03:03:34.399 --> 03:03:36.159 and if you look at 03:03:36.159 --> 03:03:40.139 the university's master plan it has this site included in 03:03:40.139 --> 03:03:42.040 its walking ring it's 03:03:42.040 --> 03:03:46.290 within the 10 minute to the center of the academic core 03:03:46.290 --> 03:03:47.959 which is located down 03:03:47.959 --> 03:03:52.719 just below the sea there on the slide and what's what's 03:03:52.719 --> 03:03:54.680 really good about this 03:03:54.680 --> 03:03:59.920 site is that is certainly going to reduce the need the 03:03:59.920 --> 03:04:02.000 demand for students 03:04:02.000 --> 03:04:04.639 to come from outlying areas you know two miles away from 03:04:04.639 --> 03:04:05.760 campus where they're 03:04:05.760 --> 03:04:09.170 either driving and parking in these neighborhoods or are 03:04:09.170 --> 03:04:09.840 taking a shuttle 03:04:09.840 --> 03:04:14.059 bus and I'll certainly reduce the pressure on the 03:04:14.059 --> 03:04:15.040 conversion of some 03:04:15.040 --> 03:04:20.690 single-family homes in these areas to multifamily student 03:04:20.690 --> 03:04:23.680 rentals to give you 03:04:23.680 --> 03:04:27.120 just a quick few slides on some sample projects we've done 03:04:27.120 --> 03:04:28.360 around the country 03:04:28.360 --> 03:04:36.000 this is an LSU it's a six-story project 277 units rat 03:04:36.000 --> 03:04:40.840 parking garage the next 03:04:40.840 --> 03:04:45.520 one is in Columbia South Carolina same thing six stories 22 03:04:45.520 --> 03:04:46.719 7 units the 03:04:46.719 --> 03:04:52.790 materials here mix stucco fiber cement panels masonry and 03:04:52.790 --> 03:04:54.440 some metal panels 03:04:54.440 --> 03:04:58.940 next is in Lubbock six-story project and also walking 03:04:58.940 --> 03:05:01.719 distance to campus here we 03:05:01.719 --> 03:05:06.149 have a lot of masonry and stucco here are a few photos of 03:05:06.149 --> 03:05:08.079 interiors kitchen 03:05:08.079 --> 03:05:14.850 area with coffee bar game room ping-pong and pool there's a 03:05:14.850 --> 03:05:17.399 movie theater this is 03:05:17.399 --> 03:05:21.540 an internal courtyard that's fully enclosed for act or 03:05:21.540 --> 03:05:23.559 activities there's 03:05:23.559 --> 03:05:27.459 another lounge area and this is the many area that we put 03:05:27.459 --> 03:05:28.719 on top of the parking 03:05:28.719 --> 03:05:32.790 garage with a fitness center that overlooks this one this 03:05:32.790 --> 03:05:34.760 is a property 03:05:34.760 --> 03:05:39.399 that we have under construction in Waco at Baylor this is a 03:05:39.399 --> 03:05:40.760 five-story 03:05:40.760 --> 03:05:46.829 development and this is a rendering I brought to our first 03:05:46.829 --> 03:05:48.120 meeting community 03:05:48.120 --> 03:05:52.319 meeting back in September to get some input from the 03:05:52.319 --> 03:05:54.200 community on you know 03:05:54.200 --> 03:05:59.270 materials massing and so forth and after taking what we 03:05:59.270 --> 03:06:00.920 heard back to the 03:06:00.920 --> 03:06:05.879 architect we came up with the following plan here on this 03:06:05.879 --> 03:06:07.559 next slide and what 03:06:07.559 --> 03:06:09.860 we were able to do is incorporate some of the things we 03:06:09.860 --> 03:06:10.600 heard from the 03:06:10.600 --> 03:06:14.229 community which was to get the massing down we lowered the 03:06:14.229 --> 03:06:15.280 to four stories 03:06:15.280 --> 03:06:19.100 everything along the scripture and normal Street and at the 03:06:19.100 --> 03:06:20.680 corner of Brian 03:06:20.680 --> 03:06:26.280 and the height of that's about 46 feet to the peak and we 03:06:26.280 --> 03:06:28.079 were able to bring in 03:06:28.079 --> 03:06:33.319 some elements working with Roman as well here at the city 03:06:33.319 --> 03:06:34.200 some of the elements 03:06:34.200 --> 03:06:37.120 that we found in the buildings in the neighborhood mostly m 03:06:37.120 --> 03:06:38.600 asonry lap siding 03:06:38.600 --> 03:06:44.670 and some of the the trim work that you see there another 03:06:44.670 --> 03:06:45.959 thing we heard from 03:06:45.959 --> 03:06:50.059 the community was to try and push it back off the street so 03:06:50.059 --> 03:06:51.280 what we've done 03:06:51.280 --> 03:06:54.989 here is created large courtyard areas particularly off of 03:06:54.989 --> 03:06:56.420 scripture those go 03:06:56.420 --> 03:07:01.280 as deep as 60 feet from the back of the curb and they're 40 03:07:01.280 --> 03:07:03.600 to 60 feet wide along 03:07:03.600 --> 03:07:08.420 normal they go as deep as 35 feet and they're about 40 feet 03:07:08.420 --> 03:07:11.200 wide there as well 03:07:11.920 --> 03:07:15.340 see feel that you know the the revisions we've made here 03:07:15.340 --> 03:07:17.000 certainly have have 03:07:17.000 --> 03:07:24.610 helped with with the issue of massing at the site to put it 03:07:24.610 --> 03:07:26.920 in context with you 03:07:26.920 --> 03:07:29.639 know some of the other multifamily properties in the area 03:07:29.639 --> 03:07:30.520 we've got City 03:07:30.520 --> 03:07:34.229 Park which is diagonally across the site and to the peak of 03:07:34.229 --> 03:07:36.200 their roof is roughly 03:07:36.200 --> 03:07:40.290 varies from 40 feet to gets up as high as probably 55 feet 03:07:40.290 --> 03:07:41.360 as you go down to 03:07:41.360 --> 03:07:44.520 ponders you start going down the hill from the sidewalk so 03:07:44.520 --> 03:07:45.520 we're talking 03:07:45.520 --> 03:07:49.229 comparable heights and fry Street even though it's a four- 03:07:49.229 --> 03:07:51.799 story building is 57 03:07:51.799 --> 03:07:55.719 feet tall our fifth story would be 56 just one foot under 03:07:55.719 --> 03:07:57.520 that we are proposing 03:07:57.520 --> 03:08:02.370 however on top of the garage which you can see on this 03:08:02.370 --> 03:08:04.360 slide that's the the 03:08:04.360 --> 03:08:08.110 parking garage the center which is completely wrapped by 03:08:08.110 --> 03:08:09.200 units so it will 03:08:09.200 --> 03:08:12.639 not be seen from the street but we're proposing to put a 03:08:12.639 --> 03:08:14.280 small amenity area on 03:08:14.280 --> 03:08:17.139 top of that parking garage which would not be be able to be 03:08:17.139 --> 03:08:17.879 seen from the 03:08:17.879 --> 03:08:20.719 street like I showed you in that other rendering where a 03:08:20.719 --> 03:08:21.879 small fitness center 03:08:21.879 --> 03:08:27.120 that would look over a swimming pool. I'd like to point out 03:08:27.120 --> 03:08:28.360 the sustainable design 03:08:28.360 --> 03:08:33.389 practice we use we put you know we use recycled materials 03:08:33.389 --> 03:08:34.799 you know the hardening 03:08:34.799 --> 03:08:39.479 board has a lot of recycled wood fiber and so forth we do 03:08:39.479 --> 03:08:40.680 light colored roofs 03:08:40.680 --> 03:08:44.459 for less solar heat water source heat pumps low emitting em 03:08:44.459 --> 03:08:44.799 itting paint 03:08:44.799 --> 03:08:49.120 energy star appliances low flow fixtures LED lighting 03:08:49.120 --> 03:08:50.920 bicycle parking 03:08:50.920 --> 03:08:55.170 electrical vehicle charging stations inside the parking 03:08:55.170 --> 03:08:57.200 garage and we do 03:08:57.200 --> 03:09:00.360 sustainable landscape where we'll capture the rainwater and 03:09:00.360 --> 03:09:01.200 recycle it for 03:09:01.200 --> 03:09:18.799 irrigation. These are just the list of items that we feel 03:09:18.799 --> 03:09:19.840 that this project is 03:09:19.840 --> 03:09:23.600 bringing to the area as I've covered most of these already 03:09:23.600 --> 03:09:24.120 have already spoken 03:09:24.120 --> 03:09:30.889 I'll just leave those up there and the next thing I want to 03:09:30.889 --> 03:09:33.479 talk about is when 03:09:33.479 --> 03:09:36.819 we you know we're invested in this property already we own 03:09:36.819 --> 03:09:37.520 it with with our 03:09:37.520 --> 03:09:42.350 partner and we we needed to know what alternative plans 03:09:42.350 --> 03:09:43.360 were in the event that 03:09:43.360 --> 03:09:47.450 rezoning the property was not successful so we had a mass 03:09:47.450 --> 03:09:49.159 ing study done to know 03:09:49.159 --> 03:09:55.229 what is permitted under the current zoning and this is what 03:09:55.229 --> 03:09:56.360 adheres to 03:09:56.360 --> 03:10:00.690 residential proximity slopes and all the things that govern 03:10:00.690 --> 03:10:02.760 the massing you know 03:10:02.760 --> 03:10:07.559 this is while it's it's you know it's economically feasible 03:10:07.559 --> 03:10:08.799 we certainly don't 03:10:08.799 --> 03:10:13.920 feel that this is the best design for the neighborhood or 03:10:13.920 --> 03:10:16.280 for us either and 03:10:16.280 --> 03:10:22.350 we're hoping that we can through what we've incorporated 03:10:22.350 --> 03:10:23.959 into our initial 03:10:23.959 --> 03:10:28.940 designs and reducing the massing and landscape areas that 03:10:28.940 --> 03:10:31.079 we're able to do 03:10:31.079 --> 03:10:34.989 you know move forward with the plan that we have in front 03:10:34.989 --> 03:10:40.360 of you today. This is a 03:10:40.360 --> 03:10:44.590 slide that that just has that shows what's what's around 03:10:44.590 --> 03:10:46.000 the areas I talked 03:10:46.000 --> 03:10:53.319 about the different heights. Am I at ten minutes or is that 03:10:53.319 --> 03:10:54.600 okay I'll just wrap 03:10:54.600 --> 03:11:00.159 this up that these are properties that are located in 03:11:00.159 --> 03:11:01.520 proximity you see you 03:11:01.520 --> 03:11:05.559 Center Fry Street again and City Park you know both those 03:11:05.559 --> 03:11:07.000 are heights of up to 03:11:07.000 --> 03:11:14.620 57 feet. Here is that a slide that just shows the cross 03:11:14.620 --> 03:11:16.559 section of why you 03:11:16.559 --> 03:11:19.969 Center and our proposed project at the fifth story level 03:11:19.969 --> 03:11:21.200 are the same height 03:11:21.200 --> 03:11:25.239 that has to do with a large height in the retail section. 03:11:25.239 --> 03:11:28.799 Here's a slide from 03:11:28.799 --> 03:11:32.940 Scripture Street driving towards Bryan you see on the right 03:11:32.940 --> 03:11:34.280 of City Park on the 03:11:34.280 --> 03:11:37.190 left would be on the left-hand side of the screen is what 03:11:37.190 --> 03:11:38.120 the four and five 03:11:38.120 --> 03:11:41.870 story building would look like it's it's it's fairly 03:11:41.870 --> 03:11:43.520 covered by by an existing 03:11:43.520 --> 03:11:47.239 tree at the corner there however the slide on the right is 03:11:47.239 --> 03:11:48.040 what the ten story 03:11:48.040 --> 03:11:54.639 massing would look like. This slide just as far as the the 03:11:54.639 --> 03:11:56.959 issue of zoning as you 03:11:56.959 --> 03:12:02.520 move away from UNT we've got DCG and then DR2 and then DCG 03:12:02.520 --> 03:12:04.639 again and then MRMU 03:12:04.639 --> 03:12:10.709 which allows up to 65 feet. We're proposing to offer an 03:12:10.709 --> 03:12:11.520 overlay that would 03:12:11.520 --> 03:12:14.729 limit the height of our building the maximum height to 70 03:12:14.729 --> 03:12:16.719 less than 70 feet so 03:12:16.719 --> 03:12:23.420 that was more even out the the zoning heights as you move 03:12:23.420 --> 03:12:26.840 away from UNT. At 03:12:26.840 --> 03:12:31.500 this point I'll bring up Lee to talk about the neighborhood 03:12:31.500 --> 03:12:32.360 process. 03:12:40.360 --> 03:12:41.620 For your presentation that you've got a good product here 03:12:41.620 --> 03:12:44.959 and it's something we 03:12:44.959 --> 03:12:48.239 can use in Denton. I'm having a hard time with it in this 03:12:48.239 --> 03:12:49.399 location for a variety 03:12:49.399 --> 03:12:56.040 of reasons but an overlay of 70 feet in in this particular 03:12:56.040 --> 03:12:57.879 area is unacceptable 03:12:57.879 --> 03:13:02.270 to me. This is a well-established neighborhood classic 03:13:02.270 --> 03:13:03.559 homes homeowners 03:13:03.559 --> 03:13:07.059 live in it have taken care of it where just about any other 03:13:07.059 --> 03:13:09.360 place around UNT 03:13:09.360 --> 03:13:13.399 this product would work very well around TW and other parts 03:13:13.399 --> 03:13:17.239 of the city but as 03:13:17.239 --> 03:13:20.579 well as you've made it look and again I'm not picking on 03:13:20.579 --> 03:13:21.680 you here but this 03:13:21.680 --> 03:13:24.840 this thing is still huge by comparison to what's in the 03:13:24.840 --> 03:13:26.000 neighborhood and its 03:13:26.000 --> 03:13:30.520 footprint is big to me it just it doesn't seem compatible 03:13:30.520 --> 03:13:31.440 with the 03:13:31.440 --> 03:13:35.579 neighborhood it's in. We're dealing with a product that's S 03:13:35.579 --> 03:13:37.120 ROs or we're dealing 03:13:37.120 --> 03:13:41.549 with a transient student population as opposed to a more 03:13:41.549 --> 03:13:42.719 stable family 03:13:42.719 --> 03:13:46.360 population. The scale conflicts with the neighborhood and 03:13:46.360 --> 03:13:47.639 violates concept I 03:13:47.639 --> 03:13:51.520 think of gradual transition because this thing is just boom 03:13:51.520 --> 03:13:52.760 set in there and it 03:13:52.760 --> 03:13:59.909 sets apart from other things so you commented that the 03:13:59.909 --> 03:14:00.959 student population 03:14:00.959 --> 03:14:04.540 North Texas is growing and requires student housing but it 03:14:04.540 --> 03:14:05.719 's really not up 03:14:05.719 --> 03:14:10.760 to the city to provide the student housing and I'm not sure 03:14:10.760 --> 03:14:11.440 it seems like 03:14:11.440 --> 03:14:14.399 every time we've had this kind of development here not sure 03:14:14.399 --> 03:14:15.680 but we had one 03:14:15.680 --> 03:14:19.290 other one over and one the historic district nobody from UN 03:14:19.290 --> 03:14:20.280 T has ever come 03:14:20.280 --> 03:14:23.590 to support the notion for these kind of developments there 03:14:23.590 --> 03:14:24.600 in fact they just 03:14:24.600 --> 03:14:28.879 broke ground recently I think near Kerr Hall which is near 03:14:28.879 --> 03:14:30.959 Eagle for 500 unit 03:14:30.959 --> 03:14:34.489 apartments so it sounds like they're trying to answer their 03:14:34.489 --> 03:14:35.680 problem but this 03:14:35.680 --> 03:14:39.299 development is nice as it is in a lot of ways and it would 03:14:39.299 --> 03:14:40.639 be again acceptable 03:14:40.639 --> 03:14:46.709 anywhere else but in this this this older area that's 03:14:46.709 --> 03:14:47.600 really kind of 03:14:47.600 --> 03:14:51.020 reflective of our heritage over the last hundred years it's 03:14:51.020 --> 03:14:52.440 just it would in my 03:14:52.440 --> 03:14:55.850 opinion create a slippery slope situation where more of 03:14:55.850 --> 03:14:56.680 these type of 03:14:56.680 --> 03:14:58.780 developments would come in and then we would see this 03:14:58.780 --> 03:14:59.799 neighborhood start to 03:14:59.799 --> 03:15:05.549 diminish so I are you open to an overlay district in fact 03:15:05.549 --> 03:15:09.079 we have something in our 03:15:09.079 --> 03:15:15.149 development code that does suggest a mixed neighborhood 03:15:15.149 --> 03:15:16.920 residential overlay 03:15:16.920 --> 03:15:22.989 that I would like to see shorter heights on something no 03:15:22.989 --> 03:15:25.120 more than three stories 03:15:25.120 --> 03:15:28.280 something that had less density greater setbacks and 03:15:28.280 --> 03:15:29.520 everything this gives you a 03:15:29.520 --> 03:15:33.139 chance to build a product that we can use again I would 03:15:33.139 --> 03:15:34.000 rather see a product 03:15:34.000 --> 03:15:36.780 that accommodates families as opposed to students but it 03:15:36.780 --> 03:15:38.040 could accommodate both 03:15:38.040 --> 03:15:41.409 of them and at the same time helps maintain the character 03:15:41.409 --> 03:15:41.920 of that 03:15:41.920 --> 03:15:46.879 neighborhood so what are your thoughts on something along 03:15:46.879 --> 03:15:48.760 those lines well 03:15:48.760 --> 03:15:53.450 something certainly at the three-story level in terms of 03:15:53.450 --> 03:15:55.440 density with their 03:15:55.440 --> 03:16:00.129 parking requirements that won't work in terms of economic 03:16:00.129 --> 03:16:01.680 feasibility I mean 03:16:01.680 --> 03:16:06.500 that's really the issue here is it wouldn't be worth 03:16:06.500 --> 03:16:10.000 building for you okay 03:16:10.000 --> 03:16:14.170 how are you not gaining by building something a little bit 03:16:14.170 --> 03:16:15.280 smaller scale 03:16:15.280 --> 03:16:21.350 than what you're proposing here it's not only can you not 03:16:21.350 --> 03:16:23.159 get a bank to finance 03:16:23.159 --> 03:16:26.510 it you can't get the investors to invest in it it's the the 03:16:26.510 --> 03:16:28.020 cost to build the 03:16:28.020 --> 03:16:32.250 project and the income you take in it's all based on how 03:16:32.250 --> 03:16:33.719 many units are in the 03:16:33.719 --> 03:16:36.500 project right so fixed costs are still the same your 03:16:36.500 --> 03:16:38.079 architects all your 03:16:38.079 --> 03:16:42.200 studies your engineers I've been doing this for a long time 03:16:42.200 --> 03:16:45.799 and unfortunately 03:16:45.799 --> 03:16:51.040 at a three-story project it wouldn't be feasible I know 03:16:51.040 --> 03:16:53.479 that well again I was 03:16:53.479 --> 03:16:56.760 like answers for you but I don't know being honest no I 03:16:56.760 --> 03:16:58.840 appreciate that my 03:16:58.840 --> 03:17:02.270 main concern here and I'm sure you and the other developers 03:17:02.270 --> 03:17:04.120 are aware that the 03:17:04.120 --> 03:17:06.329 neighborhood is really opposed to this project for 03:17:06.329 --> 03:17:08.079 understandable reasons this 03:17:08.079 --> 03:17:12.819 is again a settled established neighborhood and this kind 03:17:12.819 --> 03:17:13.120 of 03:17:13.120 --> 03:17:18.159 development we need dense right I mean I guess it's similar 03:17:18.159 --> 03:17:19.360 to you know a 03:17:19.360 --> 03:17:22.940 single-family developers not gonna build a house if he's 03:17:22.940 --> 03:17:23.239 gonna lose money 03:17:23.239 --> 03:17:27.479 doing that it's no different no no I agree that's not going 03:17:27.479 --> 03:17:27.920 to give us what 03:17:27.920 --> 03:17:31.479 we need we do need low-income housing more affordable 03:17:31.479 --> 03:17:32.879 housing I should say 03:17:32.879 --> 03:17:37.159 right but again it there are just places like developments 03:17:37.159 --> 03:17:38.479 are yours in my opinion 03:17:38.479 --> 03:17:43.000 respectfully or just off-limits and the north side of the 03:17:43.000 --> 03:17:44.600 UNT campus is that 03:17:44.600 --> 03:17:47.409 area it's frustrating to me to see these type developments 03:17:47.409 --> 03:17:48.280 come in and I can 03:17:48.280 --> 03:17:52.159 understand the appeal of it because of the the charm that 03:17:52.159 --> 03:17:53.379 area has but have 03:17:53.379 --> 03:17:58.750 y'all look seriously at any other area the West Side would 03:17:58.750 --> 03:17:59.719 be appropriate for 03:17:59.719 --> 03:18:03.440 this type of development all along Eagle on the south side 03:18:03.440 --> 03:18:05.440 yeah sure we have 03:18:05.440 --> 03:18:10.450 looked around and we were not able to locate a site and a 03:18:10.450 --> 03:18:11.879 lot of it has to do 03:18:11.879 --> 03:18:16.829 with the economics too of trying to acquire an existing 03:18:16.829 --> 03:18:18.520 running property 03:18:18.520 --> 03:18:21.450 there are not sellers over there that are willing to not at 03:18:21.450 --> 03:18:22.719 prices where you 03:18:22.719 --> 03:18:25.600 can still build a project I mean there you're basically 03:18:25.600 --> 03:18:26.559 having to buy their 03:18:26.559 --> 03:18:33.000 cash flow stream and it doesn't work unless you're talking 03:18:33.000 --> 03:18:33.680 about a 03:18:33.680 --> 03:18:43.809 significant change in density anyway thank you yeah any 03:18:43.809 --> 03:18:43.879 other questions I can 03:18:43.879 --> 03:18:47.799 answer any other questions 03:18:47.799 --> 03:18:53.129 mr. Solomon going back to the idea of walkability and you 03:18:53.129 --> 03:18:54.280 've got the eight 03:18:54.280 --> 03:18:58.239 eight-foot sidewalks around your property yes how's that 03:18:58.239 --> 03:18:58.840 going to be 03:18:58.840 --> 03:19:03.270 impacted whatever they then walk on to didn't city of didn 03:19:03.270 --> 03:19:04.840 't maintain sidewalks 03:19:04.840 --> 03:19:08.540 that are not eight foot that are not nice and new and clean 03:19:08.540 --> 03:19:09.479 and level and 03:19:09.479 --> 03:19:12.920 and what have you is that you think that's going to 03:19:12.920 --> 03:19:15.799 encourage or discourage 03:19:15.799 --> 03:19:22.479 walkers from their 20 minutes down to the library I'm going 03:19:22.479 --> 03:19:22.600 to be an 03:19:22.600 --> 03:19:27.389 improvement as to what's there as as properties develop in 03:19:27.389 --> 03:19:28.879 the future it'll 03:19:28.879 --> 03:19:31.059 be their responsibility to pick it up from there just like 03:19:31.059 --> 03:19:33.959 any other I do 03:19:33.959 --> 03:19:39.000 think that certainly creating a hardscape around the 03:19:39.000 --> 03:19:39.940 perimeter of the 03:19:39.940 --> 03:19:42.940 property with better lighting and you're just going to have 03:19:42.940 --> 03:19:44.280 a lot more foot 03:19:44.280 --> 03:19:48.520 traffic that's going to make more vibrant area safer area 03:19:48.520 --> 03:19:49.600 you know I sit 03:19:49.600 --> 03:19:52.610 there now and I watch this flows the kids coming from 03:19:52.610 --> 03:19:54.000 further away from a 03:19:54.000 --> 03:19:56.959 cross-strait so they're going to walk for sure it's a lot 03:19:56.959 --> 03:19:58.040 easier to walk and 03:19:58.040 --> 03:20:01.819 it is to try and park your car you know even shuttles where 03:20:01.819 --> 03:20:02.600 they drop me off 03:20:02.600 --> 03:20:06.840 we'll walk this five minutes the edge of the academic core 03:20:06.840 --> 03:20:07.479 and then you can take 03:20:07.479 --> 03:20:10.639 you know the shuttle from there if you want to go all the 03:20:10.639 --> 03:20:11.319 way to the other side 03:20:11.319 --> 03:20:15.770 of campus have y'all inquired with North Texas as far as 03:20:15.770 --> 03:20:18.319 buses running or DCT 8 03:20:18.319 --> 03:20:23.280 buses running from the apartment complex to the campus we 03:20:23.280 --> 03:20:25.399 haven't talked about a 03:20:25.399 --> 03:20:32.950 direct route but that we always do when we get closer to 03:20:32.950 --> 03:20:36.559 opening okay thank you 03:20:36.559 --> 03:20:41.760 yeah Commissioner Taylor thank you chair could you go back 03:20:41.760 --> 03:20:43.000 to the the site 03:20:43.000 --> 03:20:51.440 rendering I'm just trying to wrap my head around what what 03:20:51.440 --> 03:20:52.520 dimensional things 03:20:52.520 --> 03:20:55.530 create this look here so that's you said that's that's an 03:20:55.530 --> 03:20:56.520 eight foot sidewalk 03:20:56.520 --> 03:21:08.579 there so then you so it's a like an eight foot sidewalk and 03:21:08.579 --> 03:21:09.239 about is that 03:21:09.239 --> 03:21:13.239 like a 20-foot side yard front yard yeah it varies in size 03:21:13.239 --> 03:21:15.719 but like the one like 03:21:15.719 --> 03:21:18.670 the the shortest distance not not understand you have for 03:21:18.670 --> 03:21:19.440 those pavilion 03:21:19.440 --> 03:21:24.159 back in the curves by 20 feet back 03:21:31.360 --> 03:21:35.239 this is an architectural rendering but having looked at the 03:21:35.239 --> 03:21:35.600 here's name and 03:21:35.600 --> 03:21:39.149 address please Lee Allison with Allison engineering group 4 03:21:39.149 --> 03:21:41.559 401 North I 35 Denton 03:21:41.559 --> 03:21:48.459 Texas basically the code requires an eight foot sidewalk on 03:21:48.459 --> 03:21:49.319 Scripture but 03:21:49.319 --> 03:21:52.030 knowing the pedestrian interest around here we've proposed 03:21:52.030 --> 03:21:53.000 eight foot sidewalks 03:21:53.000 --> 03:21:56.920 all the way around the parkway in this section behind the 03:21:56.920 --> 03:21:58.360 curb is about eleven 03:21:58.360 --> 03:22:01.299 and a half feet and in working with the architect we've put 03:22:01.299 --> 03:22:02.319 the buildings ten 03:22:02.319 --> 03:22:06.180 feet behind the property line even though it's not there's 03:22:06.180 --> 03:22:06.959 no setback 03:22:06.959 --> 03:22:09.719 requirement here but we've put it ten feet back so we're 03:22:09.719 --> 03:22:10.920 about to the closest 03:22:10.920 --> 03:22:13.500 part of the building about 20 feet from the back of curb to 03:22:13.500 --> 03:22:14.840 the building long 03:22:14.840 --> 03:22:19.479 answer I hope that gave it yes so curb curb to building 03:22:19.479 --> 03:22:20.479 approximately 20 feet 03:22:20.479 --> 03:22:23.440 in this is the closest portion of the building yes as Paul 03:22:23.440 --> 03:22:24.200 mentioned in these 03:22:24.200 --> 03:22:29.760 deep recesses maybe as much as 60 feet from the curb to the 03:22:29.760 --> 03:22:31.239 and then this this 03:22:31.239 --> 03:22:36.200 is 46 foot top of the edge at front edge of the building 03:22:36.200 --> 03:22:38.000 there and that great 03:22:38.000 --> 03:22:42.729 Ron 46 feet for the front facade of the building so does 03:22:42.729 --> 03:22:44.879 that does that comply 03:22:44.879 --> 03:22:47.489 so if you're 10 feet off the property line and you have 03:22:47.489 --> 03:22:48.719 that 35 degree slope 03:22:48.719 --> 03:22:54.790 from 40 would that wouldn't that be below 46 feet wouldn't 03:22:54.790 --> 03:22:55.600 you be looking at 03:22:55.600 --> 03:22:59.530 like a 43 or 44 foot max at 10 feet off the property line 03:22:59.530 --> 03:23:00.760 across from a house 03:23:00.760 --> 03:23:05.079 if there's a house across the street from there we're very 03:23:05.079 --> 03:23:06.200 close to it but 03:23:06.200 --> 03:23:08.930 this has been set up so where there are houses we have met 03:23:08.930 --> 03:23:09.799 the residential 03:23:09.799 --> 03:23:14.000 proximity slopes so basically you'll push back the building 03:23:14.000 --> 03:23:15.280 yes across from 03:23:15.280 --> 03:23:22.110 the last and basically so that your building is underneath 03:23:22.110 --> 03:23:22.600 that line right 03:23:22.600 --> 03:23:27.670 and you and you did list you said a front front edge 50 46 03:23:27.670 --> 03:23:28.879 feet and top of 03:23:28.879 --> 03:23:34.309 the building 56 feet yeah then you said you would need you 03:23:34.309 --> 03:23:35.319 would be comfortable 03:23:35.319 --> 03:23:39.399 with a 70 foot elevation that's 14 feet higher than your 03:23:39.399 --> 03:23:42.079 let me explain that see 03:23:42.079 --> 03:23:48.200 this is the parking garage and just you know mad basically 03:23:48.200 --> 03:23:49.239 a 10,000 square foot 03:23:49.239 --> 03:23:52.600 rectangle would sit on top of there 03:23:57.719 --> 03:24:02.280 yeah right up we were going to locate it right about here 03:24:02.280 --> 03:24:03.520 you'd have a rectangle 03:24:03.520 --> 03:24:06.250 that would sit up here that would have a fitness center in 03:24:06.250 --> 03:24:07.360 it that would overlook 03:24:07.360 --> 03:24:11.059 the swimming pool that would be in the top of the parking 03:24:11.059 --> 03:24:12.200 garage so that's the 03:24:12.200 --> 03:24:16.079 difference okay so that would be an extra 12 or something 03:24:16.079 --> 03:24:16.840 feet above the 03:24:16.840 --> 03:24:20.760 fifth floor right and what we're saying here is that when 03:24:20.760 --> 03:24:22.040 you from a sight line 03:24:22.040 --> 03:24:26.469 from the street view the front portions of the building 03:24:26.469 --> 03:24:28.239 because it's so set so 03:24:28.239 --> 03:24:31.649 far back you won't be able to see that part of the building 03:24:31.649 --> 03:24:32.719 from the ground 03:24:32.719 --> 03:24:36.959 right yeah and so now looking at this the view you kind of 03:24:36.959 --> 03:24:38.159 I know this site 03:24:38.159 --> 03:24:39.969 plans are non-binding we're not really evaluating site 03:24:39.969 --> 03:24:40.799 plans but just to get an 03:24:40.799 --> 03:24:47.389 idea of scale here it looks like you've got 40 units of 03:24:47.389 --> 03:24:49.959 floor is that so you'd 03:24:49.959 --> 03:24:58.319 be looking at what is that 250 229 okay and I'm assuming 03:24:58.319 --> 03:24:59.959 that's that's your 03:24:59.959 --> 03:25:03.129 whatever profit point that's the that's the market point 03:25:03.129 --> 03:25:04.280 you need to reach that's 03:25:04.280 --> 03:25:07.280 when we talk about restricting the height you lose units 03:25:07.280 --> 03:25:08.440 can't can't make it 03:25:08.440 --> 03:25:13.200 work at 130 units you need your 200 or whatever it is so 03:25:13.200 --> 03:25:14.719 yeah I think those were 03:25:14.719 --> 03:25:16.170 all the dimensional things like I said I'm just trying to 03:25:16.170 --> 03:25:16.719 get my head around 03:25:16.719 --> 03:25:21.149 what all what else is going to hear thank you another 03:25:21.149 --> 03:25:22.360 question Commissioner 03:25:22.360 --> 03:25:24.840 Roseau thank you chair thank you for the presentation yeah 03:25:24.840 --> 03:25:26.079 I just wanted to maybe 03:25:26.079 --> 03:25:28.879 clarify for myself as well as maybe for the edification for 03:25:28.879 --> 03:25:29.680 anyone else can you 03:25:29.680 --> 03:25:34.959 show us the 10-story option that you had 03:25:37.239 --> 03:25:41.180 it's your understanding that this option more or less 03:25:41.180 --> 03:25:43.760 presented here if our 03:25:43.760 --> 03:25:48.559 Commission tonight does not approve the rezoning this 03:25:48.559 --> 03:25:49.799 project is economically 03:25:49.799 --> 03:25:53.090 feasible and able to be built by right correct and so what 03:25:53.090 --> 03:25:54.159 you're asking is 03:25:54.159 --> 03:25:59.049 instead of building this to disperse the density that this 03:25:59.049 --> 03:26:01.000 provides right over 03:26:01.000 --> 03:26:05.520 the course of larger property that's right so I feel 03:26:05.520 --> 03:26:07.000 compelled to think back 03:26:07.000 --> 03:26:10.459 over a recent case that some of the commissioners held here 03:26:10.459 --> 03:26:11.440 as well and in 03:26:11.440 --> 03:26:14.040 Buc-Ease I'm not sure if you're familiar with Buc-Ease case 03:26:14.040 --> 03:26:15.479 but it was a similar 03:26:15.479 --> 03:26:19.360 situation in which an applicant was asking for something 03:26:19.360 --> 03:26:20.879 and if denied they 03:26:20.879 --> 03:26:25.000 could build whatever they know we've got a commissioner 03:26:25.000 --> 03:26:26.000 that's been in another 03:26:26.000 --> 03:26:29.829 meeting who's gonna rejoin us Commissioner Hesbeth welcome 03:26:29.829 --> 03:26:30.479 back okay 03:26:30.479 --> 03:26:34.770 Mr. Roseau please continue anyways to shorten the story we 03:26:34.770 --> 03:26:35.079 had an opportunity 03:26:35.079 --> 03:26:38.680 to ask Buc-Ease to do certain things because they were 03:26:38.680 --> 03:26:39.840 asking for something I 03:26:39.840 --> 03:26:43.309 feel like this is a very similar situation in which the 03:26:43.309 --> 03:26:44.600 Commission has an 03:26:44.600 --> 03:26:48.100 opportunity to think through an option that's less intrus 03:26:48.100 --> 03:26:49.319 ive than what y'all 03:26:49.319 --> 03:26:51.829 can build by right and what my concern is initially and I 03:26:51.829 --> 03:26:52.840 obviously I'm gonna 03:26:52.840 --> 03:26:56.440 listen to the public and and process through this but my 03:26:56.440 --> 03:26:58.639 concern is is that if 03:26:58.639 --> 03:27:05.149 we deny the agenda item tonight that although that would be 03:27:05.149 --> 03:27:06.840 a win per se for 03:27:06.840 --> 03:27:09.350 the neighbors to deny something it might be ultimately a 03:27:09.350 --> 03:27:10.159 loss if they have a 03:27:10.159 --> 03:27:12.940 hundred foot building in their backyard and so it might be 03:27:12.940 --> 03:27:14.360 worth considering for 03:27:14.360 --> 03:27:17.239 individuals in the audience as well as this Commission to 03:27:17.239 --> 03:27:18.399 think through the two 03:27:18.399 --> 03:27:23.600 options on the table is potentially a 70 foot dispersed 03:27:23.600 --> 03:27:26.760 building or or this which 03:27:26.760 --> 03:27:30.090 to me I call monstrosity and so that's something to be 03:27:30.090 --> 03:27:32.200 thoughtful of right 03:27:32.200 --> 03:27:38.270 and I have one more thing I just want to add for the record 03:27:38.270 --> 03:27:40.559 that we obviously 03:27:40.559 --> 03:27:43.190 can't tie to a site plan when we're talking about the 03:27:43.190 --> 03:27:44.319 zoning so since he's 03:27:44.319 --> 03:27:47.209 offering to do it at a lower level than what the zoning 03:27:47.209 --> 03:27:48.639 that zoning change would 03:27:48.639 --> 03:27:51.319 allow we would still have to entertain something similar to 03:27:51.319 --> 03:27:52.319 it the mixed use 03:27:52.319 --> 03:27:55.879 residential district that Commissioner Beck had indicated 03:27:55.879 --> 03:27:56.920 and that's under 35 03:27:56.920 --> 03:28:00.889 point five point two four of the didn't development code 03:28:00.889 --> 03:28:02.520 and typically that's for 03:28:02.520 --> 03:28:07.770 in our MU properties that are your residential properties 03:28:07.770 --> 03:28:09.159 like in our two 03:28:09.159 --> 03:28:14.110 or in our one but in this case the wording of that 03:28:14.110 --> 03:28:15.959 particular section of 03:28:15.959 --> 03:28:19.729 our ordinances will allow us to do it in this case so you 03:28:19.729 --> 03:28:21.399 have that available to 03:28:21.399 --> 03:28:25.010 you where we could do a mix use overlay in this case over 03:28:25.010 --> 03:28:26.399 the zoning layer in 03:28:26.399 --> 03:28:30.629 order to top it out at 70 feet or whatever height that you 03:28:30.629 --> 03:28:32.120 wanted to be 03:28:32.120 --> 03:28:36.200 thank you you want to respond one more point but one years 03:28:36.200 --> 03:28:41.799 on as far as you 03:28:41.799 --> 03:28:45.350 know that additional height that I think might be you know 03:28:45.350 --> 03:28:47.360 concerning a way to 03:28:47.360 --> 03:28:51.170 restrict that would be you know to say you know not more 03:28:51.170 --> 03:28:52.600 than 15% of the 03:28:52.600 --> 03:28:56.649 footprint could be above you know the whatever our fifth 03:28:56.649 --> 03:28:58.399 floor is 57 feet or 03:28:58.399 --> 03:29:01.979 60 feet let's say would not be above it so it's clearly the 03:29:01.979 --> 03:29:03.120 intent is for that 03:29:03.120 --> 03:29:06.840 amenity area and not from for some larger area at that 03:29:06.840 --> 03:29:08.959 height we can do that as 03:29:08.959 --> 03:29:14.139 well so the last thing I wanted to say at this point was it 03:29:14.139 --> 03:29:15.319 's been brought up a 03:29:15.319 --> 03:29:18.159 couple times and I believe two weeks goes brought up in my 03:29:18.159 --> 03:29:19.920 absence about it's 03:29:19.920 --> 03:29:23.079 not the city's responsibility to provide housing for the 03:29:23.079 --> 03:29:23.879 University of North 03:29:23.879 --> 03:29:27.840 Texas which I agree with however every time there's a 03:29:27.840 --> 03:29:29.639 housing need fulfilled by 03:29:29.639 --> 03:29:32.340 the University of North Texas the city didn't receive no 03:29:32.340 --> 03:29:33.559 taxes for that and so 03:29:33.559 --> 03:29:38.270 in terms of tax revenue and a basis for that it's not 03:29:38.270 --> 03:29:40.159 necessarily not that it's 03:29:40.159 --> 03:29:43.479 our obligation as a city to provide housing for North Texas 03:29:43.479 --> 03:29:44.719 however providing 03:29:44.719 --> 03:29:48.010 housing period is taxes that you know Texas will not give 03:29:48.010 --> 03:29:49.200 us when they build a 03:29:49.200 --> 03:29:53.229 dorm right and I think that and I think that's on a later 03:29:53.229 --> 03:29:54.840 slide but the increase 03:29:54.840 --> 03:29:58.000 in the assessed value I think it's 30 fold it's something 03:29:58.000 --> 03:29:59.319 like 1.3 million up 03:29:59.319 --> 03:30:03.840 to 33 million in terms of the tax would be generated 03:30:03.840 --> 03:30:06.280 property tax right yeah 03:30:06.280 --> 03:30:10.959 thank you Commissioner Beck thank you chair just a quick 03:30:10.959 --> 03:30:11.559 response to 03:30:11.559 --> 03:30:14.950 Commissioner Roselle's statement about a loss of property 03:30:14.950 --> 03:30:16.440 tax and that's true but 03:30:16.440 --> 03:30:22.000 it's not like it would be revenue void with extra students 03:30:22.000 --> 03:30:23.040 coming in they buy 03:30:23.040 --> 03:30:25.979 products they go to restaurants and movies and stuff like 03:30:25.979 --> 03:30:26.760 that so we still 03:30:26.760 --> 03:30:33.270 gain some revenue from that in relationship to our legal 03:30:33.270 --> 03:30:34.479 attorney here 03:30:34.479 --> 03:30:38.399 Jennifer Curtis pointing out that we do have more than the 03:30:38.399 --> 03:30:40.159 option of approving 03:30:40.159 --> 03:30:45.309 this as is or denying it as is we can approve this project 03:30:45.309 --> 03:30:47.120 with an amendment 03:30:47.120 --> 03:30:52.280 that would bring in this mixed-use residential overlay and 03:30:52.280 --> 03:30:53.520 substantially 03:30:53.520 --> 03:30:56.299 reduce the footprint here and I understand the concern 03:30:56.299 --> 03:30:57.079 about it being 03:30:57.079 --> 03:31:01.120 profitable and all that and this area does need to be 03:31:01.120 --> 03:31:03.200 cleaned up okay there's 03:31:03.200 --> 03:31:06.379 some there's some messy areas in there but again I think 03:31:06.379 --> 03:31:08.159 overriding all this is 03:31:08.159 --> 03:31:11.360 we have to keep in mind the character of the neighborhood 03:31:11.360 --> 03:31:12.520 that's very important 03:31:12.520 --> 03:31:15.750 to that that weighs more heavily than a lot of the other 03:31:15.750 --> 03:31:16.840 things that are of 03:31:16.840 --> 03:31:19.819 economic value to you and I think if we can create an 03:31:19.819 --> 03:31:21.280 overlay district that will 03:31:21.280 --> 03:31:24.110 allow you to build something that will fulfill the needs of 03:31:24.110 --> 03:31:24.760 the student 03:31:24.760 --> 03:31:30.319 population creating low-income housing and again keep this 03:31:30.319 --> 03:31:32.840 neighborhood in a 03:31:32.840 --> 03:31:35.450 state that it's been for virtually a hundred years that 03:31:35.450 --> 03:31:36.319 that's a win-win 03:31:36.319 --> 03:31:40.319 situation it's not a win-win situation if if you're 03:31:40.319 --> 03:31:42.840 building something any 03:31:42.840 --> 03:31:46.920 anything above five stories seven stories ten stories 03:31:46.920 --> 03:31:47.879 because eventually 03:31:47.879 --> 03:31:50.329 it's going to diminish the value the property around there 03:31:50.329 --> 03:31:51.079 that'll sell off 03:31:51.079 --> 03:31:53.899 more these type of developments will come in and then we've 03:31:53.899 --> 03:31:55.159 lost exactly what 03:31:55.159 --> 03:32:00.719 we want to preserve here an important part of Denton's 03:32:00.719 --> 03:32:01.920 heritage right right I 03:32:01.920 --> 03:32:07.379 think Lee's going to continue the presentation and how much 03:32:07.379 --> 03:32:08.079 time does Lee 03:32:08.079 --> 03:32:09.979 have we've had a lot of questions and I don't know how much 03:32:09.979 --> 03:32:10.559 he has an additional 03:32:10.559 --> 03:32:13.920 ten minutes ten minutes ten minutes okay I was wondering 03:32:13.920 --> 03:32:14.959 how much time we had 03:32:14.959 --> 03:32:18.319 left I do want to back up to this particular slide we 03:32:18.319 --> 03:32:19.520 prepared this as a 03:32:19.520 --> 03:32:24.809 result of miss Ellis's question last session regarding the 03:32:24.809 --> 03:32:25.639 changes in 03:32:25.639 --> 03:32:29.450 densities etc and how things get zoned the way they do and 03:32:29.450 --> 03:32:30.559 and why things 03:32:30.559 --> 03:32:34.340 change and in a very small city you might like saying where 03:32:34.340 --> 03:32:35.120 I'm from you 03:32:35.120 --> 03:32:38.889 might expect an umbrella type pattern where you got high 03:32:38.889 --> 03:32:40.159 density in the middle 03:32:40.159 --> 03:32:42.940 and things thin out as you go away as you get larger cities 03:32:42.940 --> 03:32:43.760 you're going to 03:32:43.760 --> 03:32:46.450 have different use areas and as a result you'll have 03:32:46.450 --> 03:32:47.639 changes and we cut this 03:32:47.639 --> 03:32:50.979 section right through our site with the University of North 03:32:50.979 --> 03:32:52.319 Texas on the left it 03:32:52.319 --> 03:32:55.010 is not subject to zoning restrictions so there are no 03:32:55.010 --> 03:32:56.799 height limits it steps down 03:32:56.799 --> 03:33:00.709 to a DCG which has a hundred foot limit then it steps down 03:33:00.709 --> 03:33:02.000 to a dr2 that has a 03:33:02.000 --> 03:33:06.000 45 foot limit then it steps back up for another service 03:33:06.000 --> 03:33:07.920 area that has a DCG with 03:33:07.920 --> 03:33:11.149 a hundred foot limit which is part of our site and then it 03:33:11.149 --> 03:33:12.559 has a cross from 03:33:12.559 --> 03:33:16.129 our site there's both NRMU which is a 65 foot limit and NRM 03:33:16.129 --> 03:33:17.520 U 12 which has a 40 03:33:17.520 --> 03:33:21.379 foot limit and behind that is the NR3 that has a 40 foot 03:33:21.379 --> 03:33:23.040 limit as well as the 03:33:23.040 --> 03:33:27.229 NRMU 12 the crossed hatch area where I proposed site is we 03:33:27.229 --> 03:33:28.959 're looking at a 70 03:33:28.959 --> 03:33:31.950 foot height maximum but that includes the recreation area 03:33:31.950 --> 03:33:32.799 that mr. Taylor 03:33:32.799 --> 03:33:37.440 discussed earlier down from that we got the five stories 03:33:37.440 --> 03:33:39.040 set in some and then out 03:33:39.040 --> 03:33:41.979 in the immediate fronts where it four stories or about 45 03:33:41.979 --> 03:33:42.920 feet which is very 03:33:42.920 --> 03:33:48.399 comparable to the dr2 and the NRMU 12 that are adjacent to 03:33:48.399 --> 03:33:50.040 it see if I'm going 03:33:50.040 --> 03:33:53.280 the right next direction October 5th we had an initial 03:33:53.280 --> 03:33:54.840 neighborhood meeting this 03:33:54.840 --> 03:33:58.920 was before well we got our application into the city before 03:33:58.920 --> 03:33:59.680 official meetings 03:33:59.680 --> 03:34:03.159 with the city we brought the project from Waco to use as a 03:34:03.159 --> 03:34:04.079 talking point to 03:34:04.079 --> 03:34:08.280 get neighborhood comments and feedback after that we 03:34:08.280 --> 03:34:10.500 contacted Roman McAllen 03:34:10.500 --> 03:34:13.659 and Ron and I the architect made a walk around the area to 03:34:13.659 --> 03:34:14.639 see what we could 03:34:14.639 --> 03:34:20.100 find in the way of themes what's going on there pretty ec 03:34:20.100 --> 03:34:22.000 lectic there are 03:34:22.000 --> 03:34:25.399 tree-lined streets everywhere except on our current site so 03:34:25.399 --> 03:34:26.399 we're looking at 03:34:26.399 --> 03:34:28.860 getting ridding some of the driveways and adding trees 03:34:28.860 --> 03:34:30.040 there we're not going to 03:34:30.040 --> 03:34:32.309 put more dumpsters on the streets like there and we're not 03:34:32.309 --> 03:34:32.840 going to add 03:34:32.840 --> 03:34:36.649 overhead electric lines we think we've made it attractive 03:34:36.649 --> 03:34:37.760 and tried to find 03:34:37.760 --> 03:34:41.889 ways to architecturally be respectful of and even blend and 03:34:41.889 --> 03:34:42.719 work with the 03:34:42.719 --> 03:34:46.430 community after that we came back for another neighborhood 03:34:46.430 --> 03:34:47.479 meeting on December 03:34:47.479 --> 03:34:51.860 7th I showed what we had come up with after the meeting 03:34:51.860 --> 03:34:53.639 with them some people 03:34:53.639 --> 03:34:57.280 were pleased some were just glad we did what we did but 03:34:57.280 --> 03:34:58.079 like a little different 03:34:58.079 --> 03:35:02.840 some people still didn't like it at all to be honest 03:35:02.840 --> 03:35:05.120 neighborhood concerns 03:35:05.120 --> 03:35:08.930 proximity to historical districts were 660 feet from the 03:35:08.930 --> 03:35:10.680 closest one and the 03:35:10.680 --> 03:35:14.459 code puts in protections against those such as the 03:35:14.459 --> 03:35:16.840 residential proximity slopes 03:35:16.840 --> 03:35:20.159 insufficient parking we're meeting the code and right now 03:35:20.159 --> 03:35:21.120 there's a lot of 03:35:21.120 --> 03:35:23.899 people walking from even further north than where we are on 03:35:23.899 --> 03:35:24.799 the existing city 03:35:24.799 --> 03:35:27.969 sidewalks because they're parking way out there to try and 03:35:27.969 --> 03:35:28.959 find a place to get 03:35:28.959 --> 03:35:33.139 to campus so there's a lot of walking going on enforcement 03:35:33.139 --> 03:35:34.879 of parking we're 03:35:34.879 --> 03:35:37.030 having an on-site wrapped garage that doesn't help 03:35:37.030 --> 03:35:38.040 enforcement of parking 03:35:38.040 --> 03:35:40.340 that's an issue out there it's going to be an issue after 03:35:40.340 --> 03:35:41.600 this complex is there 03:35:41.600 --> 03:35:45.000 we're not going to meet that much of the university's needs 03:35:45.000 --> 03:35:46.879 building height we're 03:35:46.879 --> 03:35:49.659 proposing less than code and we're certainly willing to 03:35:49.659 --> 03:35:50.479 have an overlay 03:35:50.479 --> 03:35:53.360 restriction to help make sure that limit is enforced even 03:35:53.360 --> 03:35:54.319 after the zoning is 03:35:54.319 --> 03:35:59.700 approved if we're so fortunate parking block solid waste we 03:35:59.700 --> 03:36:00.239 're going to have 03:36:00.239 --> 03:36:02.479 on-site facilities we're not going to add to that 03:36:02.479 --> 03:36:03.920 neighborhoods concerned about 03:36:03.920 --> 03:36:07.329 traffic we're paying our impact fees we did accomplish a 03:36:07.329 --> 03:36:09.079 traffic impact analysis 03:36:09.079 --> 03:36:12.760 preliminary traffic counts I'll just mention more in a 03:36:12.760 --> 03:36:13.879 minute future 03:36:13.879 --> 03:36:16.559 improvements to scripture the neighborhood asked about that 03:36:16.559 --> 03:36:16.760 and 03:36:16.760 --> 03:36:19.430 there's not any in the city's capital improvements program 03:36:19.430 --> 03:36:20.280 at this time it is 03:36:20.280 --> 03:36:25.079 classified as a commercial collector dust and noise 03:36:25.079 --> 03:36:26.760 building permit process 03:36:26.760 --> 03:36:28.959 we're not any different than any other construction 03:36:28.959 --> 03:36:30.600 capacity of existing 03:36:30.600 --> 03:36:33.459 infrastructure it appears to be okay but we'll put a 03:36:33.459 --> 03:36:34.760 detailed analysis together 03:36:34.760 --> 03:36:38.360 as we proceed with site planning and planning impact upon 03:36:38.360 --> 03:36:39.239 surrounding 03:36:39.239 --> 03:36:45.540 businesses we think as those on Fry Street have have done 03:36:45.540 --> 03:36:46.680 better as a 03:36:46.680 --> 03:36:49.459 result of the increased density there we think with these 03:36:49.459 --> 03:36:50.600 housing that'll help 03:36:50.600 --> 03:36:54.799 the businesses in the area to some degree demand for 03:36:54.799 --> 03:36:55.840 housing still 03:36:55.840 --> 03:36:58.149 extraordinarily high and we're not really going to address 03:36:58.149 --> 03:36:58.760 a large part of 03:36:58.760 --> 03:37:06.129 UNT's demand for housing some of the ways we think it helps 03:37:06.129 --> 03:37:06.959 work together 03:37:06.959 --> 03:37:09.319 with the communities that are dresses some of the demand 03:37:09.319 --> 03:37:10.239 for student housing 03:37:10.239 --> 03:37:13.540 keeps it off on the tax rolls rather than off property 03:37:13.540 --> 03:37:16.040 value around 33 million 03:37:16.040 --> 03:37:20.110 reduces the need for student occupied home rentals I did an 03:37:20.110 --> 03:37:21.719 analysis based on 03:37:21.719 --> 03:37:27.920 UNT's projection of 2025 having a population of 45,000 03:37:27.920 --> 03:37:29.319 students their 03:37:29.319 --> 03:37:35.000 master plan says they're going to house 9,600 and 83 53 of 03:37:35.000 --> 03:37:36.280 those students 03:37:36.280 --> 03:37:41.840 basically that leaves 35,000 students unhoused if we assume 03:37:41.840 --> 03:37:43.079 that 60% of those 03:37:43.079 --> 03:37:46.760 will live in the area and the other 40% will commute that's 03:37:46.760 --> 03:37:49.040 21,200 beds but 03:37:49.040 --> 03:37:53.319 that's still generating 28,000 trips per day and commuters 03:37:53.319 --> 03:37:54.479 coming into the area 03:37:54.479 --> 03:38:00.549 to attend UNT if that entire area was owned in our four and 03:38:00.549 --> 03:38:01.840 all the students 03:38:01.840 --> 03:38:08.709 rented houses it would require 1,325 acres of NR for to 03:38:08.709 --> 03:38:09.479 accommodate those 03:38:09.479 --> 03:38:12.649 students I think that helps explain why there's the high 03:38:12.649 --> 03:38:13.600 pressure the high 03:38:13.600 --> 03:38:17.600 demand for student rentals in that area that seemed like a 03:38:17.600 --> 03:38:19.000 fast ten minutes I 03:38:19.000 --> 03:38:25.340 'm sorry that's I want to honor that okay you know if it was 03:38:25.340 --> 03:38:28.360 all dr2 with the 03:38:28.360 --> 03:38:31.860 two-story type apartments it would take 440 acres to 03:38:31.860 --> 03:38:33.319 accommodate those same 03:38:33.319 --> 03:38:37.790 number of students DCG with 150 units per acre which is 03:38:37.790 --> 03:38:40.040 what we're asking for it 03:38:40.040 --> 03:38:45.239 would take 88 acres what we're proposing in our 620 beds it 03:38:45.239 --> 03:38:46.479 would take about 120 03:38:46.479 --> 03:38:48.750 acres to accommodate all those and those are just for 03:38:48.750 --> 03:38:49.959 perspective you got to look 03:38:49.959 --> 03:38:52.590 at other things like what's already out there and and how 03:38:52.590 --> 03:38:53.600 it's going to change 03:38:53.600 --> 03:38:57.739 around but there would be some overlap but we are trying to 03:38:57.739 --> 03:38:58.959 meet some of the 03:38:58.959 --> 03:39:02.250 university needs there reduces the number of commuters yeah 03:39:02.250 --> 03:39:02.680 we're gonna 03:39:02.680 --> 03:39:07.840 take our 28,000 down to 27,600 you know it's not gonna make 03:39:07.840 --> 03:39:08.520 a huge difference 03:39:08.520 --> 03:39:12.430 we're not asking for any public assistance there's some 03:39:12.430 --> 03:39:13.680 crime issues 03:39:13.680 --> 03:39:17.170 around the building right now with vagrants entitlement 03:39:17.170 --> 03:39:18.159 allows for 100 03:39:18.159 --> 03:39:21.989 foot we're looking at 68 parking meeting code wrapped 03:39:21.989 --> 03:39:23.879 garage etc we looked at 03:39:23.879 --> 03:39:27.459 the existing don't zoning the city's only documents tell us 03:39:27.459 --> 03:39:28.319 this is a good 03:39:28.319 --> 03:39:31.989 place to put this facility we looked at the Denton plan 03:39:31.989 --> 03:39:34.200 2030 it says that that's 03:39:34.200 --> 03:39:36.719 what's supposed to be going here we looked at the Denton 03:39:36.719 --> 03:39:37.799 development code and 03:39:37.799 --> 03:39:40.209 we looked at the residential setbacks and other things to 03:39:40.209 --> 03:39:41.040 see what we can put 03:39:41.040 --> 03:39:43.829 in there we looked at the didn't criteria manuals we're 03:39:43.829 --> 03:39:44.760 exceeding some of 03:39:44.760 --> 03:39:47.629 the requirements as far as some of the setbacks we've 03:39:47.629 --> 03:39:48.799 looked at historical 03:39:48.799 --> 03:39:52.229 districts and landmarks and stayed a decent distance away 03:39:52.229 --> 03:39:53.399 from those this the 03:39:53.399 --> 03:39:57.600 zoning allows for all that we went through the UNT master 03:39:57.600 --> 03:39:59.680 plan in detail to 03:39:59.680 --> 03:40:02.979 see how we would work together with them in that area and I 03:40:02.979 --> 03:40:04.079 agree the city of 03:40:04.079 --> 03:40:07.049 Denton is not responsible to provide housing for UNT 03:40:07.049 --> 03:40:08.559 students on the other 03:40:08.559 --> 03:40:12.549 hand the UNT students are there UNT is the gorilla in the 03:40:12.549 --> 03:40:14.399 room and that demand 03:40:14.399 --> 03:40:17.829 for for housing is going to be there the demand for parking 03:40:17.829 --> 03:40:19.000 and the demand for 03:40:19.000 --> 03:40:22.360 transportation it's all going to be there regardless the 03:40:22.360 --> 03:40:23.239 question is are 03:40:23.239 --> 03:40:25.120 they going to live there are they going to commute there 03:40:25.120 --> 03:40:25.760 are they going to live 03:40:25.760 --> 03:40:29.520 in houses over 500 acres or more they're going to live in 03:40:29.520 --> 03:40:31.399 apartments over 50 to 03:40:31.399 --> 03:40:35.030 100 acres or 200 acres and that's the kind of planning that 03:40:35.030 --> 03:40:36.120 the city has to 03:40:36.120 --> 03:40:39.360 grapple with I just get to come up here and challenge you 03:40:39.360 --> 03:40:40.479 with it all that's a 03:40:40.479 --> 03:40:44.680 little easier we did do the TIA as far as running the 03:40:44.680 --> 03:40:47.319 numbers there's not any 03:40:47.319 --> 03:40:51.280 curves in the transportation of Institute of Transportation 03:40:51.280 --> 03:40:51.879 Engineers 03:40:51.879 --> 03:40:55.040 manual so we went out and found some independent studies 03:40:55.040 --> 03:40:56.079 that had been done 03:40:56.079 --> 03:41:02.459 on apartments we show for our side is we're proposing it we 03:41:02.459 --> 03:41:03.840 do not trigger the 03:41:03.840 --> 03:41:06.250 requirements for a TIA but we're still going to do one 03:41:06.250 --> 03:41:07.399 anyway when we get into 03:41:07.399 --> 03:41:12.479 the planning process we presented that report to the city 03:41:12.479 --> 03:41:13.399 and the staff went 03:41:13.399 --> 03:41:16.600 out and ran some traffic council an existing apartment 03:41:16.600 --> 03:41:17.600 complex of student 03:41:17.600 --> 03:41:20.549 housing and found that our studies were in line with what 03:41:20.549 --> 03:41:21.639 they're finding in 03:41:21.639 --> 03:41:26.610 the in the local areas we found a number of studies that 03:41:26.610 --> 03:41:27.280 show if you're within 03:41:27.280 --> 03:41:30.520 walking distance of a university that student housing 03:41:30.520 --> 03:41:31.920 typically parks about 03:41:31.920 --> 03:41:36.959 70% of the number of bedrooms if you're within public 03:41:36.959 --> 03:41:38.239 transportation is within 03:41:38.239 --> 03:41:41.770 about 80% 85 and as you get away from all of that you 03:41:41.770 --> 03:41:42.760 probably needing to be 03:41:42.760 --> 03:41:46.930 on a one-to-one we're still following the code and this 03:41:46.930 --> 03:41:48.520 will be quoted parked 03:41:48.520 --> 03:41:52.659 essentially at the one-to-one this shows the surrounding 03:41:52.659 --> 03:41:54.040 area and what the uses 03:41:54.040 --> 03:41:58.680 are by the type we've got businesses we got houses in 03:41:58.680 --> 03:41:59.799 yellow that have been 03:41:59.799 --> 03:42:03.040 converted to businesses we've got existing apartments in 03:42:03.040 --> 03:42:03.840 the area that may 03:42:03.840 --> 03:42:07.510 explain why the type of zoning that's in this area mr. Rose 03:42:07.510 --> 03:42:08.600 lle is and how it got 03:42:08.600 --> 03:42:14.059 there blue houses are single-family we did find one house 03:42:14.059 --> 03:42:14.959 we say it's owner 03:42:14.959 --> 03:42:18.790 occupied and that's because we saw that they have a homest 03:42:18.790 --> 03:42:19.840 ead exemption and a 03:42:19.840 --> 03:42:24.170 vacant lot that's the real ten minutes all right we're out 03:42:24.170 --> 03:42:25.239 of here appreciate 03:42:25.239 --> 03:42:27.639 it thank you very much some questions for you yes 03:42:27.639 --> 03:42:33.719 Commissioner back here in response to your statement about 03:42:33.719 --> 03:42:35.239 expectation student 03:42:35.239 --> 03:42:38.850 population growth I understand that I'm not one to you know 03:42:38.850 --> 03:42:40.040 put a roadblock up 03:42:40.040 --> 03:42:43.270 for growth but the fact that the expectation is there doesn 03:42:43.270 --> 03:42:43.840 't mean we 03:42:43.840 --> 03:42:47.399 have to meet it at the highest level we control growth and 03:42:47.399 --> 03:42:48.600 we should control 03:42:48.600 --> 03:42:51.540 growth we won't set the city of Denton to grow but we want 03:42:51.540 --> 03:42:52.520 to go to steady rate 03:42:52.520 --> 03:42:56.030 and we wanted to grow in ways that negatively impact 03:42:56.030 --> 03:42:57.520 important areas like 03:42:57.520 --> 03:43:05.510 this neighborhood north of UNT you mentioned that city 03:43:05.510 --> 03:43:07.200 future land use map 03:43:07.200 --> 03:43:09.370 and everything indicate this was a good place to build but 03:43:09.370 --> 03:43:10.319 I would just bring up 03:43:10.319 --> 03:43:14.000 the point that maybe we should discuss in more detail that 03:43:14.000 --> 03:43:15.280 this attraction to 03:43:15.280 --> 03:43:19.180 this area is partly due to the fact that this DCG 03:43:19.180 --> 03:43:22.719 designation along Scripture was 03:43:22.719 --> 03:43:27.879 part of some city planning back in part of city back in 03:43:27.879 --> 03:43:30.920 2002 and for the life of 03:43:30.920 --> 03:43:34.309 me I can't understand why they thought DCG would be 03:43:34.309 --> 03:43:36.159 appropriate there I don't 03:43:36.159 --> 03:43:39.319 think everybody fully understood what that entailed now 03:43:39.319 --> 03:43:40.639 Commissioner Taylor and 03:43:40.639 --> 03:43:44.319 I talked briefly he thinks he understands why that was put 03:43:44.319 --> 03:43:45.000 there and 03:43:45.000 --> 03:43:48.540 I'd be glad for him to share that but that was probably a 03:43:48.540 --> 03:43:49.760 mistake and that's 03:43:49.760 --> 03:43:52.920 maybe neither here there but it maybe is something that we 03:43:52.920 --> 03:43:54.079 need to revisit 03:43:54.079 --> 03:43:58.510 depending on where this goes and why they never considered 03:43:58.510 --> 03:43:59.399 to put it back to 03:43:59.399 --> 03:44:02.229 DR - I don't know but that's part of the reason why this 03:44:02.229 --> 03:44:03.719 particular area has a 03:44:03.719 --> 03:44:06.329 certain pill for you because you've got a foothold in there 03:44:06.329 --> 03:44:07.360 with that DCG so 03:44:07.360 --> 03:44:11.389 again you guys build a great product I'm always pleased 03:44:11.389 --> 03:44:12.879 when you come up and 03:44:12.879 --> 03:44:14.760 present your stuff and you've done a lot of great things 03:44:14.760 --> 03:44:16.079 around the city but the 03:44:16.079 --> 03:44:19.370 bottom line it just there's areas where you should build 03:44:19.370 --> 03:44:20.079 this and there's areas 03:44:20.079 --> 03:44:22.459 where you shouldn't and this is just one of them in my 03:44:22.459 --> 03:44:23.319 opinion it should 03:44:23.319 --> 03:44:25.930 I understand what you're saying and that's why you're there 03:44:25.930 --> 03:44:26.520 and I'm here 03:44:26.520 --> 03:44:30.729 and I'd also suggest related to that one of the issues in 03:44:30.729 --> 03:44:32.280 finding sites is 03:44:32.280 --> 03:44:36.479 concrete city is zone DR - who wants to go and redevelop 03:44:36.479 --> 03:44:37.680 concrete city from two 03:44:37.680 --> 03:44:41.020 story apartments to higher density when the density zoning 03:44:41.020 --> 03:44:42.200 is not there yet so 03:44:42.200 --> 03:44:46.959 well it's possible the Commission may be more receptive to 03:44:46.959 --> 03:44:48.760 rezoning that area to 03:44:48.760 --> 03:44:51.760 the city so 03:44:52.360 --> 03:44:57.280 thank you any other questions for the applicant 03:44:57.280 --> 03:45:01.709 all right Commissioner Husbeth well I have another are 03:45:01.709 --> 03:45:03.360 there more cards to 03:45:03.360 --> 03:45:09.479 speak we haven't started yet then I'm gonna I'm gonna take 03:45:09.479 --> 03:45:10.639 notes and then I 03:45:10.639 --> 03:45:16.040 ask you back up but and I'll if I may thank you chair 03:45:16.040 --> 03:45:19.200 continue I think when I 03:45:19.200 --> 03:45:26.719 listen to the citizens speak and I take in your perspective 03:45:26.719 --> 03:45:28.159 really what I have 03:45:28.159 --> 03:45:31.479 to reconcile and what I'm gonna ask you afterwards is this 03:45:31.479 --> 03:45:33.280 how do you how are 03:45:33.280 --> 03:45:38.319 you if you counterbalance the neighborhood wants certain 03:45:38.319 --> 03:45:39.079 things that 03:45:39.079 --> 03:45:43.370 don't fit your business plan right so we have there's there 03:45:43.370 --> 03:45:46.200 's an impasse how do 03:45:46.200 --> 03:45:49.139 you how do I know how to process that but I want to I'm 03:45:49.139 --> 03:45:50.360 gonna ask you how you 03:45:50.360 --> 03:45:54.040 process that how do you get to where you where you are I 03:45:54.040 --> 03:45:55.959 don't think I think 03:45:55.959 --> 03:46:00.319 there's some real challenges with that on the edge of a 03:46:00.319 --> 03:46:01.120 transit transitional 03:46:01.120 --> 03:46:03.549 district and so I'll just I'm just giving you time to think 03:46:03.549 --> 03:46:05.079 as they speak I 03:46:05.079 --> 03:46:11.229 personally have to weigh their concerns and yours and the 03:46:11.229 --> 03:46:13.159 rights but I and I'll 03:46:13.159 --> 03:46:19.229 tell you I'm biased with respect to the the narrative and 03:46:19.229 --> 03:46:21.280 that I will ask you 03:46:21.280 --> 03:46:27.059 about the if then if this than that that you that's in your 03:46:27.059 --> 03:46:27.639 narrative I've never 03:46:27.639 --> 03:46:30.840 seen that before and I don't I mean it rubs me different 03:46:30.840 --> 03:46:32.399 and so I'll ask you 03:46:32.399 --> 03:46:34.889 about that but I want to I want to hear what the citizens 03:46:34.889 --> 03:46:35.959 in the neighborhood 03:46:35.959 --> 03:46:38.840 have to say but but I wanted to give you a head start so 03:46:38.840 --> 03:46:39.299 that I'm not not 03:46:39.299 --> 03:46:42.659 blindside we'll be here tonight we're not going away sure 03:46:42.659 --> 03:46:43.280 some of that I'll 03:46:43.280 --> 03:46:46.200 have to refer to Paul but sure we'll get your questions and 03:46:46.200 --> 03:46:46.760 appreciate it 03:46:46.760 --> 03:46:49.920 thank you sir anything else and see none thank you I thank 03:46:49.920 --> 03:46:51.620 you and this is a 03:46:51.620 --> 03:46:55.159 public hearing I've got a number of cards requesting to 03:46:55.159 --> 03:46:56.420 speak first of which 03:46:56.420 --> 03:47:00.360 is Mary Anderson at 924 West Oak if you'll state your name 03:47:00.360 --> 03:47:02.120 address and 03:47:02.120 --> 03:47:06.260 thank you all for being here again and your cards marked in 03:47:06.260 --> 03:47:06.840 opposition you know 03:47:06.840 --> 03:47:10.370 yes Mary Anderson as you said 924 West Oak there are so 03:47:10.370 --> 03:47:11.239 many things wrong with 03:47:11.239 --> 03:47:17.309 this I'm not sure where to start what is D CG zoning is 03:47:17.309 --> 03:47:18.680 that multifamily this is 03:47:18.680 --> 03:47:21.920 an SRO it is not a multifamily operation so that's already 03:47:21.920 --> 03:47:25.020 wrong the 03:47:25.020 --> 03:47:27.430 traffic is horrible the roads are way too small to handle 03:47:27.430 --> 03:47:28.340 all these units and 03:47:28.340 --> 03:47:32.030 I hear words but no data I don't see real hard references 03:47:32.030 --> 03:47:33.440 about parking well 03:47:33.440 --> 03:47:35.709 the cars got to get there and they got to get out this 03:47:35.709 --> 03:47:37.879 overlays a very close to 03:47:37.879 --> 03:47:40.680 Oak Street which nobody bothers to show that Denton 03:47:40.680 --> 03:47:42.040 Regional or whatever it's 03:47:42.040 --> 03:47:45.209 currently called now no Denton Presby is on the ambulance 03:47:45.209 --> 03:47:46.280 route while you guys 03:47:46.280 --> 03:47:48.899 were talking on something else I was outside hearing six 03:47:48.899 --> 03:47:49.959 fire trucks go up 03:47:49.959 --> 03:47:52.540 Oak Street texting my husband is everything there no they 03:47:52.540 --> 03:47:53.079 're going past 03:47:53.079 --> 03:47:55.649 they're gonna roll right past there how are the ambulances 03:47:55.649 --> 03:47:56.600 and fire trucks gonna 03:47:56.600 --> 03:47:59.229 get to any of these buildings this is a real safety issue 03:47:59.229 --> 03:48:00.079 the roads on Oak 03:48:00.079 --> 03:48:03.420 Hickory and scripture have you been down them lately oh my 03:48:03.420 --> 03:48:04.399 gosh I don't want to 03:48:04.399 --> 03:48:08.680 start it's horrible what are 229 units they are not 03:48:08.680 --> 03:48:10.100 apartments they are not 03:48:10.100 --> 03:48:14.319 family places they are transient places where eventually 03:48:14.319 --> 03:48:15.399 homeless they live and 03:48:15.399 --> 03:48:20.040 I hope we find places for them to live I don't know what is 03:48:20.040 --> 03:48:21.559 about anybody having 03:48:21.559 --> 03:48:23.760 a community meeting I never got notice of a community 03:48:23.760 --> 03:48:24.719 meeting when was this 03:48:24.719 --> 03:48:28.829 nobody sent it around to the community who was this and 03:48:28.829 --> 03:48:30.280 walking around those 03:48:30.280 --> 03:48:32.690 none of those ever got to me I'd be there telling you this 03:48:32.690 --> 03:48:33.479 is kind of crazy 03:48:33.479 --> 03:48:37.579 and finally I looked at what the applicant has here or 03:48:37.579 --> 03:48:38.600 close to finally 03:48:38.600 --> 03:48:42.879 it says that the applicant is beta mu somebody's name Paul 03:48:42.879 --> 03:48:44.159 Levine says he's 03:48:44.159 --> 03:48:47.280 the owner is D the applicant isn't this all mute I mean he 03:48:47.280 --> 03:48:48.760 's not the person that 03:48:48.760 --> 03:48:51.159 actually asked for this so why are we listening to Paul Lev 03:48:51.159 --> 03:48:51.840 ine if beta mu is 03:48:51.840 --> 03:48:56.600 doing the request one of my questions and frankly can we 03:48:56.600 --> 03:48:57.600 send carpet baggers 03:48:57.600 --> 03:49:00.379 going away from my neighborhood they don't want this in 03:49:00.379 --> 03:49:01.399 your neighborhood you 03:49:01.399 --> 03:49:03.209 don't want them building 10-story buildings in your 03:49:03.209 --> 03:49:04.000 neighborhood please 03:49:04.000 --> 03:49:06.799 give us a little respect treat us right thank you mr. Beck 03:49:06.799 --> 03:49:07.799 we need a little bit 03:49:07.799 --> 03:49:10.959 of respect before you come in say oh we're just gonna throw 03:49:10.959 --> 03:49:11.920 this up there's 03:49:11.920 --> 03:49:15.750 services of water sewer all downhill you know you can build 03:49:15.750 --> 03:49:16.600 it you just want to 03:49:16.600 --> 03:49:24.940 be greedy no carpet baggers thank you Randy hunt 722 West 03:49:24.940 --> 03:49:25.920 Oak to be followed 03:49:25.920 --> 03:49:29.399 by John Warren 03:49:46.600 --> 03:49:55.399 so I wanted to follow up with a sorry I'm Randy hunt 722 03:49:55.399 --> 03:49:58.000 West Oak and there's 03:49:58.000 --> 03:50:01.159 probably at least 10 more people it should be here but they 03:50:01.159 --> 03:50:02.079 're all sick like 03:50:02.079 --> 03:50:07.260 I am but we're toughening out because we respect a 03:50:07.260 --> 03:50:08.760 neighborhood and we 03:50:08.760 --> 03:50:12.530 appreciate the fact that y'all do too so you asked me a 03:50:12.530 --> 03:50:14.280 good question last time 03:50:14.280 --> 03:50:17.159 and the question was when was the last time you talked with 03:50:17.159 --> 03:50:18.079 the Texas Historic 03:50:18.079 --> 03:50:22.069 Commission why I can give you an update I did on Monday and 03:50:22.069 --> 03:50:23.600 what I found out is 03:50:23.600 --> 03:50:28.030 that they've given us staff approval for us to have a 03:50:28.030 --> 03:50:29.600 National Register District 03:50:29.600 --> 03:50:34.090 with about 350 structures in it so the map that we're 03:50:34.090 --> 03:50:37.520 showing right here 03:50:40.399 --> 03:50:45.540 this is around Calhoun and this is the area that we're 03:50:45.540 --> 03:50:48.000 talking about right now 03:50:48.000 --> 03:50:52.709 now I don't know why in the world this area between our 03:50:52.709 --> 03:50:54.860 historic district and 03:50:54.860 --> 03:50:58.899 the West Oak Historic District was written off we can't 03:50:58.899 --> 03:51:00.959 allow that I want 03:51:00.959 --> 03:51:06.120 to show you a map of what it didn't look like in 1917 03:51:06.120 --> 03:51:10.159 hundred years ago so here 03:51:10.159 --> 03:51:16.639 it is and this is our core this is our culture this is why 03:51:16.639 --> 03:51:17.600 people come to 03:51:17.600 --> 03:51:22.979 Denton this is why they're proud of it this is our downtown 03:51:22.979 --> 03:51:25.200 core area and these 03:51:25.200 --> 03:51:31.270 jokers want to put a 10-story structure in it oh this is a 03:51:31.270 --> 03:51:33.639 residential area has 03:51:33.639 --> 03:51:37.090 been for over a hundred years and we need to respect that 03:51:37.090 --> 03:51:38.360 that's a residential 03:51:38.360 --> 03:51:46.239 area now you know I hear this argument about the you know 03:51:46.239 --> 03:51:47.520 they can't make money 03:51:47.520 --> 03:51:52.479 on it well you know what I you asked a good question last 03:51:52.479 --> 03:51:53.840 time you asked about 03:51:53.840 --> 03:51:58.549 compromises I would compromise and have the Med Park people 03:51:58.549 --> 03:51:59.399 put something in 03:51:59.399 --> 03:52:07.629 over here but you know when when there was a public meeting 03:52:07.629 --> 03:52:09.760 per se that these 03:52:09.760 --> 03:52:15.149 guys called it wasn't a city called meeting one of the 03:52:15.149 --> 03:52:16.399 people that was there 03:52:16.399 --> 03:52:20.840 lives in the area his name is Craig Clifton he's in the 03:52:20.840 --> 03:52:21.840 hospital right now 03:52:21.840 --> 03:52:26.520 but he was told well you know if you don't like this we'll 03:52:26.520 --> 03:52:28.000 just put seven to 03:52:28.000 --> 03:52:34.520 ten stories there so I would say to y'all fine if that's 03:52:34.520 --> 03:52:35.200 what they want to 03:52:35.200 --> 03:52:41.860 try to do let them but respect our neighborhood and give us 03:52:41.860 --> 03:52:43.420 a chance to 03:52:43.420 --> 03:52:48.000 create a national register district over here so I asked 03:52:48.000 --> 03:52:49.479 the Texas Historic 03:52:49.479 --> 03:52:53.680 Commission as well as another state agency what would 03:52:53.680 --> 03:52:55.360 happen if if there was 03:52:55.360 --> 03:52:59.010 a structure there and they say you ever been to around 03:52:59.010 --> 03:53:00.360 Texas Tech you ever been 03:53:00.360 --> 03:53:05.069 to Lubbock it said you know why would the people and didn't 03:53:05.069 --> 03:53:05.840 want to write off 03:53:05.840 --> 03:53:09.959 a neighborhood like that so that's what we're up against 03:53:09.959 --> 03:53:12.280 and you know there is 03:53:12.280 --> 03:53:16.469 no compromise that's what you're hearing and I would dare 03:53:16.469 --> 03:53:17.680 venture to you that the 03:53:17.680 --> 03:53:21.989 reason that Lee asked for a two-week delay is because he 03:53:21.989 --> 03:53:23.440 was doing an AMA 03:53:23.440 --> 03:53:29.479 visit you know management style and he went around to talk 03:53:29.479 --> 03:53:30.479 to city council 03:53:30.479 --> 03:53:34.379 members to see if he could get their support that's not 03:53:34.379 --> 03:53:36.600 compromise that's 03:53:36.600 --> 03:53:42.700 manipulation we need to protect a historic area that's been 03:53:42.700 --> 03:53:43.360 there for over 03:53:43.360 --> 03:53:47.530 a hundred years this was the area that was built up by the 03:53:47.530 --> 03:53:49.280 by the faculty that 03:53:49.280 --> 03:53:55.680 started the North Texas Normal College give us a chance 03:53:55.680 --> 03:53:57.000 thank you have a 03:53:57.000 --> 03:54:00.639 question for you Commissioner Beck thank you chair 03:54:00.639 --> 03:54:05.860 thanks for your presentation you do so eloquently would you 03:54:05.860 --> 03:54:07.440 be opposed you 03:54:07.440 --> 03:54:10.770 mentioned that either voted up or voted down but if we 03:54:10.770 --> 03:54:12.360 voted down then it runs 03:54:12.360 --> 03:54:15.540 the risk of them bringing in that ten foot would you be 03:54:15.540 --> 03:54:16.760 opposed to the idea 03:54:16.760 --> 03:54:21.600 of this this overlay district that I suggested to keep it 03:54:21.600 --> 03:54:23.520 from exceeding 03:54:23.520 --> 03:54:27.329 certain limits I would propose heights that wouldn't go 03:54:27.329 --> 03:54:28.840 beyond three stories 03:54:28.840 --> 03:54:32.440 lower densities more closely related to what DR2 is would 03:54:32.440 --> 03:54:33.520 you be opposed to 03:54:33.520 --> 03:54:37.000 something like that no I'm all about compromise okay you 03:54:37.000 --> 03:54:37.879 know we don't have 03:54:37.879 --> 03:54:42.239 to have it a particular way but make it look like the rest 03:54:42.239 --> 03:54:42.739 you know there's 03:54:42.739 --> 03:54:46.250 already a three-story structure there that was on you know 03:54:46.250 --> 03:54:47.040 the old flow 03:54:47.040 --> 03:54:52.159 hospital three stories okay because we want to think 03:54:52.159 --> 03:54:53.559 ultimately the idea here 03:54:53.559 --> 03:54:58.049 is to protect this area long term and not exactly right you 03:54:58.049 --> 03:54:58.879 know what we all 03:54:58.879 --> 03:55:02.809 saw from Med Park that was three stories these guys want to 03:55:02.809 --> 03:55:04.120 say it has to be 03:55:04.120 --> 03:55:09.680 their way or the highway I'm saying go hit the highway okay 03:55:09.680 --> 03:55:11.159 thank you sir 03:55:11.159 --> 03:55:15.969 another couple questions for you Commissioner Roselle thank 03:55:15.969 --> 03:55:16.879 you sir thank 03:55:16.879 --> 03:55:19.299 you mr. Hahn for your presentation I wasn't here last 03:55:19.299 --> 03:55:20.200 meeting and maybe I 03:55:20.200 --> 03:55:23.200 missed this what are the dots represent those are 03:55:23.200 --> 03:55:24.319 structures that were already 03:55:24.319 --> 03:55:29.520 identified by the Texas Historic Commission as contributing 03:55:29.520 --> 03:55:30.680 houses so all 03:55:30.680 --> 03:55:34.090 of those black dots are things that make an area 03:55:34.090 --> 03:55:36.319 contributing so to get a 03:55:36.319 --> 03:55:39.739 national register area you have to have at least 50% of all 03:55:39.739 --> 03:55:40.659 the structures 03:55:40.659 --> 03:55:46.000 within an area to be contributing you know to have 03:55:46.000 --> 03:55:47.600 integrity of how it looked 03:55:47.600 --> 03:55:51.459 like when it was first built okay so it looks like on the 03:55:51.459 --> 03:55:53.040 block and in question 03:55:53.040 --> 03:55:56.799 between normal Brian between oak and scripture you have 14 03:55:56.799 --> 03:55:57.600 contributing 03:55:57.600 --> 03:56:02.639 structures I see nine multifamily complexes and some of 03:56:02.639 --> 03:56:03.239 these dots that 03:56:03.239 --> 03:56:07.170 you have listed here are in fact look like multi-story 03:56:07.170 --> 03:56:09.239 building some it was is 03:56:09.239 --> 03:56:14.239 this recent or these apartments this was back in 1995 these 03:56:14.239 --> 03:56:15.319 dogs are was in 95 03:56:15.319 --> 03:56:18.879 when the survey was done okay and the survey hasn't been 03:56:18.879 --> 03:56:19.959 updated that's what 03:56:19.959 --> 03:56:23.370 we're currently doing we're asking the Texas Historic 03:56:23.370 --> 03:56:24.440 Commission would they 03:56:24.440 --> 03:56:28.709 also consider this area as you know an extension of the 03:56:28.709 --> 03:56:30.280 National Register 03:56:30.280 --> 03:56:33.010 District that they've already approved by staff that we're 03:56:33.010 --> 03:56:34.040 working on right now 03:56:34.040 --> 03:56:37.870 and they're like if you get busy is the process once the 03:56:37.870 --> 03:56:39.520 staff approves that at 03:56:39.520 --> 03:56:42.000 Texas Store Commission will they resurvey this to see these 03:56:42.000 --> 03:56:42.639 apartments or 03:56:42.639 --> 03:56:45.799 what's the process do you know yeah we we have to go out 03:56:45.799 --> 03:56:47.280 and do the footwork we 03:56:47.280 --> 03:56:52.620 take pictures we we do the ownership we do the research for 03:56:52.620 --> 03:56:53.959 it and then we let 03:56:53.959 --> 03:56:57.299 the Texas Historic Commission define if it's contributing 03:56:57.299 --> 03:56:58.399 or not and that has 03:56:58.399 --> 03:57:01.959 not been done yet not for this area okay for the area on 03:57:01.959 --> 03:57:03.520 that side of the green 03:57:03.520 --> 03:57:07.520 line it all has there's about 350 structures in there okay 03:57:07.520 --> 03:57:09.920 thank you 03:57:10.760 --> 03:57:16.829 okay no more questions thank you John Warren to be followed 03:57:16.829 --> 03:57:20.079 by Anita Ramsey 03:57:20.079 --> 03:57:23.239 I'm John Warren I live with my wife and four children at 11 03:57:23.239 --> 03:57:25.399 09 West Congress and 03:57:25.399 --> 03:57:27.729 I think I originally put in opposition to this project I 03:57:27.729 --> 03:57:28.719 still would probably 03:57:28.719 --> 03:57:32.139 land there living in the neighborhood my primary concern 03:57:32.139 --> 03:57:33.479 though more than what 03:57:33.479 --> 03:57:37.729 the structure looks like because I feel like this this 03:57:37.729 --> 03:57:39.520 portion of the peninsula 03:57:39.520 --> 03:57:44.930 as mr. Ozel mentioned it it sort of was the historicity of 03:57:44.930 --> 03:57:46.200 it sort of way by by 03:57:46.200 --> 03:57:48.649 long ago when they were allowed to build all these 03:57:48.649 --> 03:57:50.159 apartments on it I drove up 03:57:50.159 --> 03:57:53.319 and down the streets today there's 18 apartment complexes 03:57:53.319 --> 03:57:54.959 on between those two 03:57:54.959 --> 03:57:58.579 streets and all the houses are just dwarfed by those 03:57:58.579 --> 03:57:59.920 apartments and so 03:57:59.920 --> 03:58:04.250 that's less of a concern to me the greater concern living 03:58:04.250 --> 03:58:05.520 and and having a 03:58:05.520 --> 03:58:09.600 family close to this prop this project is is the traffic 03:58:09.600 --> 03:58:10.879 and I don't know what 03:58:10.879 --> 03:58:14.840 PNZ has in terms of your decision-making regarding how you 03:58:14.840 --> 03:58:15.719 think about the 03:58:15.719 --> 03:58:18.530 traffic in the neighborhood but it's already terrible the 03:58:18.530 --> 03:58:19.760 students will walk 03:58:19.760 --> 03:58:22.940 to campus but they're gonna drive to Kroger which means 03:58:22.940 --> 03:58:23.600 they're gonna drive 03:58:23.600 --> 03:58:27.059 down scripture on to ponder and then on to my street where 03:58:27.059 --> 03:58:27.879 there was a hit and 03:58:27.879 --> 03:58:31.040 run last week and it happens consistently and so I don't 03:58:31.040 --> 03:58:31.559 know how 03:58:31.559 --> 03:58:36.059 that plays into again your guys's decision to rezone it but 03:58:36.059 --> 03:58:36.479 that that 03:58:36.479 --> 03:58:39.760 becomes my primary concern living in the neighborhood and I 03:58:39.760 --> 03:58:40.799 just want to thank you 03:58:40.799 --> 03:58:44.579 guys for your voluntary service I think sometimes we can be 03:58:44.579 --> 03:58:47.399 pretty angry and 03:58:47.399 --> 03:58:50.809 emotional in our presentations but you guys are voluntarily 03:58:50.809 --> 03:58:51.799 giving your time 03:58:51.799 --> 03:58:54.780 and so I think you're to be commended for that and we 03:58:54.780 --> 03:58:56.600 should exercise restraint 03:58:56.600 --> 03:58:59.760 and patience as we address you and so I appreciate what you 03:58:59.760 --> 03:59:00.520 guys do thank you 03:59:00.520 --> 03:59:04.639 thank you have a question for you Commissioner Hussbett so 03:59:04.639 --> 03:59:06.040 John I'm gonna 03:59:06.040 --> 03:59:09.959 use you as a case study okay right so if the size doesn't 03:59:09.959 --> 03:59:11.520 bother you that that's 03:59:11.520 --> 03:59:15.030 great but so the other apartments there because I've driven 03:59:15.030 --> 03:59:15.879 it and best I can 03:59:15.879 --> 03:59:19.420 tell they're about two two stories and again I forget we're 03:59:19.420 --> 03:59:20.479 flow hospital that 03:59:20.479 --> 03:59:24.809 might be three how do you when you when you're driving let 03:59:24.809 --> 03:59:25.280 's say you're driving 03:59:25.280 --> 03:59:27.750 up up scripture or whatever so that's uphill so that's kind 03:59:27.750 --> 03:59:28.479 of different so 03:59:28.479 --> 03:59:30.879 let's say we're leaving chopsticks going the other way yeah 03:59:30.879 --> 03:59:33.239 I the fact that it 03:59:33.239 --> 03:59:38.639 would double everything else for I mean it'll be like 10 03:59:38.639 --> 03:59:41.319 miles I mean that I 03:59:41.319 --> 03:59:45.180 mean I get I get the traffic thing but the aesthetics thing 03:59:45.180 --> 03:59:46.280 doesn't really 03:59:46.280 --> 03:59:49.879 affect you yeah well there's city park apartments right 03:59:49.879 --> 03:59:51.319 across the street that 03:59:51.319 --> 03:59:54.200 I mean this rendering is much more aesthetically beautiful 03:59:54.200 --> 03:59:54.959 than City Park 03:59:54.959 --> 03:59:59.190 that's this gigantic yellow stucco right monstrosity that's 03:59:59.190 --> 04:00:00.239 across the street 04:00:00.239 --> 04:00:04.159 from this so right this looks better to me than City Park 04:00:04.159 --> 04:00:05.079 which is right next 04:00:05.079 --> 04:00:10.440 door and much better than what's what's currently there I I 04:00:10.440 --> 04:00:11.760 don't however love 04:00:11.760 --> 04:00:14.920 the sort of veiled kind of threat I won't call it I mean 04:00:14.920 --> 04:00:15.600 maybe that's not 04:00:15.600 --> 04:00:18.120 what they're doing I'm with you that doesn't feel great it 04:00:18.120 --> 04:00:18.840 's it's accurate 04:00:18.840 --> 04:00:25.639 yeah okay thank you thank you sir 04:00:25.639 --> 04:00:32.620 Annetta Ramsey to be followed by Patrice like my name is an 04:00:32.620 --> 04:00:33.959 ad Ramsey I live at 04:00:33.959 --> 04:00:38.559 722 West Oak Street I am opposed to another single 04:00:38.559 --> 04:00:40.000 residence occupancy unit 04:00:40.000 --> 04:00:46.069 in a historic neighborhood where the norm is one story I'm 04:00:46.069 --> 04:00:47.440 concerned that 04:00:47.440 --> 04:00:50.680 the compromise has been asked for and the only compromise 04:00:50.680 --> 04:00:51.799 that's been offered 04:00:51.799 --> 04:00:54.639 is you can have something you don't like or something you 04:00:54.639 --> 04:00:56.479 really don't like that 04:00:56.479 --> 04:01:04.000 is not compromise UNT and TWU have 45,000 students and not 04:01:04.000 --> 04:01:04.559 all of those 04:01:04.559 --> 04:01:09.360 students live in town many of them commute and they're 04:01:09.360 --> 04:01:10.319 happy doing that many 04:01:10.319 --> 04:01:14.200 of them commute with public transportation which is what I 04:01:14.200 --> 04:01:14.719 did when I 04:01:14.719 --> 04:01:17.879 first started graduate school many of these students are 04:01:17.879 --> 04:01:18.920 graduate students 04:01:18.920 --> 04:01:21.799 they're married they're not in a place where they would be 04:01:21.799 --> 04:01:22.920 candidates for these 04:01:22.920 --> 04:01:27.290 housing units but by the city's own estimate last year you 04:01:27.290 --> 04:01:29.479 have 9,400 rent by 04:01:29.479 --> 04:01:35.549 the room things and so if you do the math that's 20% of the 04:01:35.549 --> 04:01:36.520 students I think 04:01:36.520 --> 04:01:42.049 you're already pushing maximum density if this is a service 04:01:42.049 --> 04:01:44.000 to UNT why is 04:01:44.000 --> 04:01:48.040 UNT not speaking about that don't you think their silence 04:01:48.040 --> 04:01:49.200 is kind of deafening 04:01:49.200 --> 04:01:52.649 I do I think they would speak up if they thought it was a 04:01:52.649 --> 04:01:54.799 good thing I have 04:01:54.799 --> 04:02:01.250 spoken with them and I just I think that these units do not 04:02:01.250 --> 04:02:03.120 do a good job for 04:02:03.120 --> 04:02:06.350 students I work with a lot of college students and the 04:02:06.350 --> 04:02:07.920 students that I work 04:02:07.920 --> 04:02:11.780 with who were in residence halls make good grades and they 04:02:11.780 --> 04:02:13.000 graduate on time 04:02:13.000 --> 04:02:16.670 because they have a lot of support from the university the 04:02:16.670 --> 04:02:17.799 students who live in 04:02:17.799 --> 04:02:22.229 these units are in a party atmosphere the SRO units cannot 04:02:22.229 --> 04:02:23.399 because of the 04:02:23.399 --> 04:02:26.989 fair housing act turn people away because they're not UNT 04:02:26.989 --> 04:02:27.879 or TW students 04:02:27.879 --> 04:02:30.680 so they get some people in there who want a party and it's 04:02:30.680 --> 04:02:31.959 not in their best 04:02:31.959 --> 04:02:34.739 interest and so a lot of the students that I have worked 04:02:34.739 --> 04:02:35.719 with have ended up 04:02:35.719 --> 04:02:40.719 leaving UNT and going on to another university because they 04:02:40.719 --> 04:02:42.520 failed out but I 04:02:42.520 --> 04:02:46.590 hear a lot of awful stories and the most common one is 04:02:46.590 --> 04:02:48.120 where a roommate decides 04:02:48.120 --> 04:02:51.049 to move in a boyfriend or a girlfriend and nobody wants to 04:02:51.049 --> 04:02:52.200 say anything because 04:02:52.200 --> 04:02:55.360 they don't want any drama about that or someone gets a pet 04:02:55.360 --> 04:02:56.399 and then they're 04:02:56.399 --> 04:02:59.709 never around to care for the pet pet damages the property 04:02:59.709 --> 04:03:00.840 and then all of the 04:03:00.840 --> 04:03:04.250 roommates have to pay for it but the saddest story I heard 04:03:04.250 --> 04:03:05.280 happened in City 04:03:05.280 --> 04:03:10.159 Park and it was where a client got raped in her own bedroom 04:03:10.159 --> 04:03:11.879 and it was some guy 04:03:11.879 --> 04:03:15.319 who showed up at a party that her roommates threw they were 04:03:15.319 --> 04:03:16.879 all underage he 04:03:16.879 --> 04:03:20.799 had alcohol he was 21 so he brought alcohol to the party 04:03:20.799 --> 04:03:21.719 they all got drunk 04:03:21.719 --> 04:03:25.260 I think she got drugged he dragged her into her room and 04:03:25.260 --> 04:03:28.920 raped her and her 04:03:28.920 --> 04:03:31.649 roommate saw what was going on but they didn't want to call 04:03:31.649 --> 04:03:32.600 the police because 04:03:32.600 --> 04:03:36.719 they were drinking underage they were doing something bad 04:03:36.719 --> 04:03:37.799 to be sure there are 04:03:37.799 --> 04:03:41.829 some students who are happy in these units but they're very 04:03:41.829 --> 04:03:42.799 expensive it's 04:03:42.799 --> 04:03:46.110 eight hundred to a thousand dollars a room so it's not 04:03:46.110 --> 04:03:47.079 cheap it's not 04:03:47.079 --> 04:03:50.639 something that many families can afford I have two sons 04:03:50.639 --> 04:03:52.159 they live at home they go 04:03:52.159 --> 04:03:54.450 to UNT but they live at home and I think that there are a 04:03:54.450 --> 04:03:55.920 lot of people like me 04:03:55.920 --> 04:03:58.739 and Denton who want to get their kids out of college 04:03:58.739 --> 04:04:00.479 without debt so I am 04:04:00.479 --> 04:04:05.600 begging you please please do not let UNT encroach anymore I 04:04:05.600 --> 04:04:06.680 love the university 04:04:06.680 --> 04:04:09.879 but they've already encroached in every direction please 04:04:09.879 --> 04:04:11.239 don't let them go north 04:04:11.239 --> 04:04:15.319 thank you thank you 04:04:16.440 --> 04:04:23.680 Patrice like we're lucky followed by Deb Armenter 04:04:27.000 --> 04:04:31.479 I was after adjust okay I'm Patrice like 1109 Egan so I 04:04:31.479 --> 04:04:32.440 live in the Pecan 04:04:32.440 --> 04:04:36.209 neighborhood that is just right near the site that we're 04:04:36.209 --> 04:04:38.280 talking about I first 04:04:38.280 --> 04:04:42.600 have a question about the historical preservation officers 04:04:42.600 --> 04:04:44.040 visit to this site 04:04:44.040 --> 04:04:50.809 it's a question I guess for staff is this protocol for the 04:04:50.809 --> 04:04:52.719 HPO to visit sites 04:04:52.719 --> 04:04:59.569 and did our HPO indicate that this area has no historical 04:04:59.569 --> 04:05:01.639 significance is like 04:05:01.639 --> 04:05:04.969 our HPO is present and I will ask Roman to come down and 04:05:04.969 --> 04:05:07.000 address his site visit 04:05:07.000 --> 04:05:10.159 with the applicant and answer some of the questions that 04:05:10.159 --> 04:05:11.479 you've just asked okay 04:05:11.479 --> 04:05:15.159 I'll remember where my time was 04:05:22.200 --> 04:05:24.329 thank you thank you for let me come up my name is Roman Mc 04:05:24.329 --> 04:05:26.319 Allen I'm the 04:05:26.319 --> 04:05:28.809 historic preservation officer for the city of Denton and 04:05:28.809 --> 04:05:29.559 this is my first 04:05:29.559 --> 04:05:33.690 opportunity to talk about this but I want to make sure I 04:05:33.690 --> 04:05:35.280 just directly answer 04:05:35.280 --> 04:05:41.350 your question on protocol I don't this is I try to be very 04:05:41.350 --> 04:05:42.680 customer service 04:05:42.680 --> 04:05:45.520 oriented when I work as a preservation officer for the city 04:05:45.520 --> 04:05:46.360 I had the same role 04:05:46.360 --> 04:05:51.319 the city of Brownsville and that I was just called to come 04:05:51.319 --> 04:05:52.399 out and consider 04:05:52.399 --> 04:05:55.340 this property and the project that was going on here and I 04:05:55.340 --> 04:05:55.959 knew it was 04:05:55.959 --> 04:05:59.309 situated between two historic districts and I knew was 04:05:59.309 --> 04:06:00.680 surrounded by a lot of 04:06:00.680 --> 04:06:06.079 historic resources that if if one were able to if we were 04:06:06.079 --> 04:06:07.360 to move forward with 04:06:07.360 --> 04:06:12.360 creating a historic district in this area that there were 04:06:12.360 --> 04:06:13.559 potentially 04:06:13.559 --> 04:06:16.079 contributing resources there so whenever I have the 04:06:16.079 --> 04:06:19.159 opportunity really to get 04:06:19.159 --> 04:06:23.340 involved early in anything and I to answer your question I 04:06:23.340 --> 04:06:24.440 didn't say I 04:06:24.440 --> 04:06:26.950 didn't support this and I think Lee will support me on this 04:06:26.950 --> 04:06:27.760 I just walked around 04:06:27.760 --> 04:06:30.729 with the architects and with them and pointed out what I 04:06:30.729 --> 04:06:31.559 saw is contributing 04:06:31.559 --> 04:06:36.420 for example there are two houses on this proposed site that 04:06:36.420 --> 04:06:37.159 would be 04:06:37.159 --> 04:06:39.719 contributing resources if there were a historic district 04:06:39.719 --> 04:06:40.680 but you might have to 04:06:40.680 --> 04:06:44.510 gerrymandered around the large number of apartment units 04:06:44.510 --> 04:06:45.959 unless they're over 50 04:06:45.959 --> 04:06:49.959 years of age and get into all that but I visited as just as 04:06:49.959 --> 04:06:51.239 I always will with 04:06:51.239 --> 04:06:54.770 anyone anyone in the city who calls me unless you know my 04:06:54.770 --> 04:06:56.200 supervisor would say 04:06:56.200 --> 04:06:59.950 don't do that or something I tend to just come out not pass 04:06:59.950 --> 04:07:01.159 judgment but offer 04:07:01.159 --> 04:07:05.190 my knowledge about preservation when that happens I don't 04:07:05.190 --> 04:07:05.639 know question for 04:07:05.639 --> 04:07:08.799 you Commissioner Rizzo thank you I appreciate you being 04:07:08.799 --> 04:07:09.239 here I have one 04:07:09.239 --> 04:07:13.760 question this site currently is vacant is to your 04:07:13.760 --> 04:07:15.479 understanding correct and so it 04:07:15.479 --> 04:07:19.209 doesn't contribute historically in any measurable way to 04:07:19.209 --> 04:07:20.399 the neighborhood 04:07:20.399 --> 04:07:27.170 currently well I'm sorry I mean no no that's part a well it 04:07:27.170 --> 04:07:28.360 's its vacancy 04:07:28.360 --> 04:07:32.969 doesn't make it non-contributing it's the building that's 04:07:32.969 --> 04:07:35.280 there so and your 04:07:35.280 --> 04:07:39.379 estimation is part B of this question is there any project 04:07:39.379 --> 04:07:40.559 or development that 04:07:40.559 --> 04:07:44.000 would contribute to an historical neighborhood if it's 04:07:44.000 --> 04:07:45.479 built in 2017 04:07:45.479 --> 04:07:49.239 meaning if we were to construct an old craftsman style home 04:07:49.239 --> 04:07:50.319 would that in your 04:07:50.319 --> 04:07:52.229 estimation now contribute to the historicity of the 04:07:52.229 --> 04:07:53.840 neighborhood or is 04:07:53.840 --> 04:07:57.079 there anything there that could increase the function of 04:07:57.079 --> 04:07:59.719 that property well the 04:07:59.719 --> 04:08:03.440 short answer is no you could build something that for 04:08:03.440 --> 04:08:05.040 example in the other 04:08:05.040 --> 04:08:08.430 three districts we have designed architectural guidelines 04:08:08.430 --> 04:08:09.399 there so most of 04:08:09.399 --> 04:08:13.260 our districts are almost completely full so if you look at 04:08:13.260 --> 04:08:14.879 West Oak okay Korean 04:08:14.879 --> 04:08:18.979 the Bell Avenue there aren't a lot of vacant lots there so 04:08:18.979 --> 04:08:20.399 but there's still 04:08:20.399 --> 04:08:23.819 architectural regulations in each of those districts and if 04:08:23.819 --> 04:08:25.159 someone chose to 04:08:25.159 --> 04:08:28.000 build in there they would have to comply with those 04:08:28.000 --> 04:08:29.639 regulations and the landmark 04:08:29.639 --> 04:08:32.469 Commission would consider the project and see if it fits in 04:08:32.469 --> 04:08:33.200 well with the 04:08:33.200 --> 04:08:36.700 district but that particular building that you build would 04:08:36.700 --> 04:08:37.959 not be contributing 04:08:37.959 --> 04:08:42.059 and it's just due to its being new typically though not 04:08:42.059 --> 04:08:43.879 always 50 years is 04:08:43.879 --> 04:08:46.639 the mark but you might have especially today with the 04:08:46.639 --> 04:08:47.680 popularity and the 04:08:47.680 --> 04:08:51.659 recognition of mid-century architecture where that line 04:08:51.659 --> 04:08:53.200 moves along for example 04:08:53.200 --> 04:08:56.360 here in Denton we have the so-called idiot seal area. More 04:08:56.360 --> 04:08:56.959 question and I've been 04:08:56.959 --> 04:08:59.450 tapped told we need to kind of move for this. Commissioner 04:08:59.450 --> 04:09:00.799 back. Thank you chair 04:09:00.799 --> 04:09:05.440 thank you Roman. What you evaluated was the specific 04:09:05.440 --> 04:09:06.440 property that we're talking 04:09:06.440 --> 04:09:09.879 about rezoning you didn't evaluate anything outside the 04:09:09.879 --> 04:09:11.520 parameters of that 04:09:11.520 --> 04:09:16.250 we walked the street and and we noted I think together but 04:09:16.250 --> 04:09:17.319 I mean I was put it 04:09:17.319 --> 04:09:20.260 mainly pointing out what would be a contributing building 04:09:20.260 --> 04:09:21.000 if there were a 04:09:21.000 --> 04:09:23.229 district buildings that obviously and anyone who goes down 04:09:23.229 --> 04:09:24.000 the street can kind 04:09:24.000 --> 04:09:26.829 of tell the the wooden structures with the double hung 04:09:26.829 --> 04:09:28.079 windows or things like 04:09:28.079 --> 04:09:31.950 that so we did point out on the facing streets there that 04:09:31.950 --> 04:09:33.079 day we just walked 04:09:33.079 --> 04:09:36.250 around the three sides of the property. So roughly in a say 04:09:36.250 --> 04:09:37.040 two or three hundred 04:09:37.040 --> 04:09:40.680 foot circumference of the area that might be historical 04:09:40.680 --> 04:09:41.760 value to some of the 04:09:41.760 --> 04:09:48.559 buildings there? Well yes. Okay okay thank you. No thank 04:09:48.559 --> 04:09:49.600 you I have no further 04:09:49.600 --> 04:09:52.299 questions appreciate it. Thank you. Miss like you think you 04:09:52.299 --> 04:09:53.600 had three minutes or 04:09:53.600 --> 04:10:01.479 so left to go? 320. 320. All right thank you okay so thank 04:10:01.479 --> 04:10:01.840 you for 04:10:01.840 --> 04:10:09.959 cleaning that up Roman. Now so I got up and spoke two weeks 04:10:09.959 --> 04:10:11.440 ago I missed 04:10:11.440 --> 04:10:17.180 Commissioner Rizel I missed Commissioner Sullivan but again 04:10:17.180 --> 04:10:18.239 as somebody who lives 04:10:18.239 --> 04:10:23.879 very very close to this site I understand I'm a new I'm a 04:10:23.879 --> 04:10:24.579 lover of the new 04:10:24.579 --> 04:10:29.540 urbanist style and I do agree that in particularly in the 04:10:29.540 --> 04:10:30.840 core of Denton 04:10:30.840 --> 04:10:36.129 density well managed and well situated density is going to 04:10:36.129 --> 04:10:37.120 be important for a 04:10:37.120 --> 04:10:42.680 sustainable Denton. Now part of I noticed that the 04:10:42.680 --> 04:10:44.520 apartment complex that was 04:10:44.520 --> 04:10:47.899 approved I understand it was a different zoning district 04:10:47.899 --> 04:10:49.280 but the early apartment 04:10:49.280 --> 04:10:52.760 complex that was approved first of all apartments not SROs 04:10:52.760 --> 04:10:54.860 and I do I do agree 04:10:54.860 --> 04:10:58.860 with Ms. Anderson that SROs are not multifamily they are 04:10:58.860 --> 04:11:00.799 glorified dorms but 04:11:00.799 --> 04:11:05.309 the other apartment complex required an SUP to do 04:11:05.309 --> 04:11:07.719 residential only and one of 04:11:07.719 --> 04:11:11.860 the problems I think with this proposed development and of 04:11:11.860 --> 04:11:13.200 course we all know 04:11:13.200 --> 04:11:16.799 that this the zoning could change they could flip this 04:11:16.799 --> 04:11:18.559 property tomorrow there 04:11:18.559 --> 04:11:23.530 is nothing tying any of these site plans these elevations 04:11:23.530 --> 04:11:24.879 any of this landscaping 04:11:24.879 --> 04:11:30.440 to the zoning request we all know that but there's no 04:11:30.440 --> 04:11:32.280 commercial there's no 04:11:32.280 --> 04:11:36.139 mixed-use proposed thus far the zoning category that's 04:11:36.139 --> 04:11:37.600 being requested wouldn't 04:11:37.600 --> 04:11:42.569 require that right and yes these people are going to have 04:11:42.569 --> 04:11:44.440 to get in the car and 04:11:44.440 --> 04:11:48.430 go buy head of lettuce now it's true you can get to walk to 04:11:48.430 --> 04:11:49.520 CVS you can get your 04:11:49.520 --> 04:11:53.659 shampoo there are no groceries to be found nearby all of 04:11:53.659 --> 04:11:55.040 these people they 04:11:55.040 --> 04:11:57.649 may be walking they may be taking their bike but they're 04:11:57.649 --> 04:11:58.520 going to be on our 04:11:58.520 --> 04:12:01.680 streets they are going to be driving down Congress Street 04:12:01.680 --> 04:12:02.760 past mr. Warren's 04:12:02.760 --> 04:12:05.780 house they're going to be driving down oak they're going to 04:12:05.780 --> 04:12:06.399 be driving down 04:12:06.399 --> 04:12:11.680 Hickory the north and north side of campus is really not 04:12:11.680 --> 04:12:13.760 meant to house 04:12:13.760 --> 04:12:17.840 students it will always be on the tax rolls Commissioner 04:12:17.840 --> 04:12:19.319 Roselle I'm if we put 04:12:19.319 --> 04:12:24.600 500 bodies on the UNT site it's not going to make any 04:12:24.600 --> 04:12:25.479 difference if we put 04:12:25.479 --> 04:12:28.639 those bodies on scripture because the development there 04:12:28.639 --> 04:12:29.360 whatever that 04:12:29.360 --> 04:12:32.590 development is is going to generate taxes we don't lose 04:12:32.590 --> 04:12:34.440 anything UNT has 04:12:34.440 --> 04:12:37.920 500 beds coming online they have they've been approved for 04:12:37.920 --> 04:12:40.559 500 more beds UNT 04:12:40.559 --> 04:12:44.090 wants their students on campus right now there are 04:12:44.090 --> 04:12:47.239 approximately 37,000 students 04:12:47.239 --> 04:12:52.000 enrolled at UNT about 31,000 of them are undergraduate 04:12:52.000 --> 04:12:54.680 students but 3,000 students 04:12:54.680 --> 04:12:58.399 are a hundred percent online and that includes students who 04:12:58.399 --> 04:12:59.200 are also the 04:12:59.200 --> 04:13:02.090 current count includes students who are part-time students 04:13:02.090 --> 04:13:03.600 as well so when we're 04:13:03.600 --> 04:13:10.120 looking at 9,000 SRO beds right now this is not necessary 04:13:10.120 --> 04:13:12.239 for Denton not 04:13:12.239 --> 04:13:16.559 necessary for UNT and it's completely contextually 04:13:16.559 --> 04:13:18.879 inappropriate for the 04:13:18.879 --> 04:13:22.920 neighborhoods to the north 04:13:24.120 --> 04:13:27.940 another question for you one more question Commissioner 04:13:27.940 --> 04:13:29.840 Taylor thank you 04:13:29.840 --> 04:13:35.120 dr. like I have have a few questions I think I have one 04:13:35.120 --> 04:13:36.120 question if I wrap it up 04:13:36.120 --> 04:13:39.479 altogether okay so I'm going to try and do that you 04:13:39.479 --> 04:13:40.280 obviously have an interest 04:13:40.280 --> 04:13:43.600 in the historic area the historic nature of the area and 04:13:43.600 --> 04:13:45.559 you said you have a 04:13:45.559 --> 04:13:50.440 preference for new urban new urbanist design I do and how 04:13:50.440 --> 04:13:52.600 do we balance those 04:13:52.600 --> 04:13:56.420 two things in a contextual design that would be appropriate 04:13:56.420 --> 04:13:57.440 for this area I 04:13:57.440 --> 04:14:02.639 think that the density does have to decrease for one thing 04:14:02.639 --> 04:14:04.040 the body the 04:14:04.040 --> 04:14:09.209 beating heart density but it also needs to have some type 04:14:09.209 --> 04:14:10.600 of commercial 04:14:10.600 --> 04:14:14.909 opportunities that the neighborhood can partake in it is a 04:14:14.909 --> 04:14:15.959 very we're a walkie 04:14:15.959 --> 04:14:19.819 neighborhood my neighbors walk to chopsticks all the time 04:14:19.819 --> 04:14:21.559 and we you know 04:14:21.559 --> 04:14:26.170 walk to CVS the CVS really has been an amenity up there 04:14:26.170 --> 04:14:28.360 near Fry Street but as 04:14:28.360 --> 04:14:34.469 it is you know we're not you know we would appreciate more 04:14:34.469 --> 04:14:36.360 commercial more 04:14:36.360 --> 04:14:42.430 retail more neighborhood scaled services in that area 04:14:42.430 --> 04:14:43.360 remembering that when I 04:14:43.360 --> 04:14:46.309 moved to the neighborhood flow hospital still stood and 04:14:46.309 --> 04:14:47.559 that's how a lot of that 04:14:47.559 --> 04:14:51.639 zoning came about by the way over on scripture in that area 04:14:51.639 --> 04:14:52.639 is because we 04:14:52.639 --> 04:14:57.180 supported a hospital and the hospitals gone you know you 04:14:57.180 --> 04:14:58.079 don't expect your 04:14:58.079 --> 04:15:02.049 institutions to just pack up leave and get bulldozed but it 04:15:02.049 --> 04:15:03.920 was but a lot of 04:15:03.920 --> 04:15:09.329 the again the good services amenities and just things that 04:15:09.329 --> 04:15:10.440 were available to 04:15:10.440 --> 04:15:14.159 the neighborhood were things we would have welcome back 04:15:14.159 --> 04:15:15.879 okay and to follow up 04:15:15.879 --> 04:15:20.360 you said fewer like as you put it fewer bodies like a lower 04:15:20.360 --> 04:15:21.600 lower person density 04:15:21.600 --> 04:15:26.040 right I know you've got some experience with the the 04:15:26.040 --> 04:15:28.520 dimensional and technical 04:15:28.520 --> 04:15:33.760 aspects of zoning what what would that be in units an acre 04:15:33.760 --> 04:15:35.639 height or something 04:15:35.639 --> 04:15:38.250 like that what is your what is your number well part of it 04:15:38.250 --> 04:15:39.040 I think is mass 04:15:39.040 --> 04:15:45.159 because there are yes many apartment complexes they're low 04:15:45.159 --> 04:15:47.200 intensity both in 04:15:47.200 --> 04:15:52.979 scale height their apartments and so and that's one of the 04:15:52.979 --> 04:15:54.040 things about the SRO 04:15:54.040 --> 04:15:58.180 is to be honest with you and again I do I teach at UNT I 04:15:58.180 --> 04:15:59.239 teach these people I 04:15:59.239 --> 04:16:01.670 like them I'm not saying I don't want to live near my 04:16:01.670 --> 04:16:04.079 students but we have a lot 04:16:04.079 --> 04:16:08.079 of faculty who would like to live near campus they were we 04:16:08.079 --> 04:16:09.040 have a lot of staff 04:16:09.040 --> 04:16:12.329 who would like to live near campus and the faculty and 04:16:12.329 --> 04:16:13.760 staff whom I've known 04:16:13.760 --> 04:16:17.649 who've lived near the university have chosen to live if 04:16:17.649 --> 04:16:19.159 they can find a place 04:16:19.159 --> 04:16:24.440 in low intensity two-story apartment complexes that are 04:16:24.440 --> 04:16:26.719 nearby so it is a 04:16:26.719 --> 04:16:32.040 matter of mass it's a matter of scale I can't say okay I 04:16:32.040 --> 04:16:33.120 think it should be this 04:16:33.120 --> 04:16:37.879 many beating hearts per acre but something that again is 04:16:37.879 --> 04:16:39.079 contextually this 04:16:39.079 --> 04:16:45.319 is so contextually insensitive both in scale and in usage 04:16:45.319 --> 04:16:48.920 that it's I find it 04:16:48.920 --> 04:16:52.319 just inappropriate button up against my neighborhood and 04:16:52.319 --> 04:16:54.600 you know being to both 04:16:54.600 --> 04:16:57.590 the east and to the west of two other historical 04:16:57.590 --> 04:17:00.559 neighborhoods thank you one 04:17:00.559 --> 04:17:02.920 more question Commissioner Roselle thank you chair thank 04:17:02.920 --> 04:17:04.239 you for speaking out and 04:17:04.239 --> 04:17:10.309 nailing the time well done some individuals have talked 04:17:10.309 --> 04:17:10.959 about not having 04:17:10.959 --> 04:17:13.600 a need for this type of development but you mentioned 04:17:13.600 --> 04:17:14.879 something in your answer 04:17:14.879 --> 04:17:18.639 you said that if your fellow professors can find a place 04:17:18.639 --> 04:17:19.799 are you hearing that 04:17:19.799 --> 04:17:23.260 it's difficult to find a place to live near campus it is 04:17:23.260 --> 04:17:25.079 right for people who 04:17:25.079 --> 04:17:29.090 move to town their new faculty and who would like to get a 04:17:29.090 --> 04:17:30.319 feel for Denton 04:17:30.319 --> 04:17:35.680 before they commit long term to a neighborhood or to a 04:17:35.680 --> 04:17:37.440 house many people 04:17:37.440 --> 04:17:42.760 would like to be closer to campus we have a couple of my 04:17:42.760 --> 04:17:45.280 colleagues spend part 04:17:45.280 --> 04:17:48.670 of their year in another state they don't want to own a 04:17:48.670 --> 04:17:50.000 house but they sure 04:17:50.000 --> 04:17:54.569 would like to live close to campus a lot of the time my 04:17:54.569 --> 04:17:56.559 students will graduate 04:17:56.559 --> 04:18:00.559 and be interested they start like leading real adult lives 04:18:00.559 --> 04:18:02.239 but they can't 04:18:02.239 --> 04:18:05.610 continue to lead them right and living right where they 04:18:05.610 --> 04:18:07.040 would like to live so 04:18:07.040 --> 04:18:09.649 there really is a market for people who would be interested 04:18:09.649 --> 04:18:11.079 in maintaining I like 04:18:11.079 --> 04:18:16.280 living close to UNT I have lived in apartment close to UNT 04:18:16.280 --> 04:18:18.520 and I think 04:18:18.520 --> 04:18:23.920 there's a there's a market for for this sure thank you 04:18:23.920 --> 04:18:28.639 Commissioner Beck thank you chair do you think it's our 04:18:28.639 --> 04:18:30.079 oaths are the type of 04:18:30.079 --> 04:18:33.799 dwellings that would meet their needs I have a really hard 04:18:33.799 --> 04:18:35.200 time supporting as 04:18:35.200 --> 04:18:38.799 our oaths for one thing it is it's a in my opinion a 04:18:38.799 --> 04:18:41.079 different usage you know an 04:18:41.079 --> 04:18:45.059 apartment is meant to house people who have you know have a 04:18:45.059 --> 04:18:46.840 community once you 04:18:46.840 --> 04:18:52.159 develop build an SRO the possibilities in my opinion and I 04:18:52.159 --> 04:18:52.799 don't I'm not an 04:18:52.799 --> 04:18:58.260 interior designer but you'd never be able to return that 04:18:58.260 --> 04:18:59.280 dot that 04:18:59.280 --> 04:19:03.969 configuration to an apartment where somebody may say I'm 04:19:03.969 --> 04:19:05.520 going to live here 04:19:05.520 --> 04:19:08.399 with my wife and children for a couple of years while I'm 04:19:08.399 --> 04:19:09.079 you know getting a 04:19:09.079 --> 04:19:15.149 feel for Denton and you know the SRO is sold some of the 04:19:15.149 --> 04:19:17.040 time as an inexpensive 04:19:17.040 --> 04:19:23.110 alternative there are dorm the high that the priciest dorm 04:19:23.110 --> 04:19:25.040 itory on UNT's campus 04:19:25.040 --> 04:19:32.680 is about $790 a month and the lowest is about $440 a month 04:19:32.680 --> 04:19:35.079 there as we become 04:19:35.079 --> 04:19:38.989 find more places on campus since we've got the potential 04:19:38.989 --> 04:19:41.600 for a thousand beds we 04:19:41.600 --> 04:19:46.100 will you know be able to house people on campus you know 04:19:46.100 --> 04:19:47.600 keep them closer 04:19:47.600 --> 04:19:53.780 potentially save them money this way and no I don't think 04:19:53.780 --> 04:19:55.159 the SROs are 04:19:55.159 --> 04:20:00.920 compatible with neighborhoods again I like my students but 04:20:00.920 --> 04:20:02.280 I know that their 04:20:02.280 --> 04:20:08.969 investment in you know a community in an SRO is scanty I 04:20:08.969 --> 04:20:11.799 drive I walk by you center 04:20:11.799 --> 04:20:16.440 at the end of every semester and they bring open dumpsters 04:20:16.440 --> 04:20:17.760 and park them in 04:20:17.760 --> 04:20:21.329 Oak Street and just throw stuff in and I'm not talking 04:20:21.329 --> 04:20:22.920 clothes they didn't take 04:20:22.920 --> 04:20:26.239 to the goodwill I'm talking they're throwing toilets away 04:20:26.239 --> 04:20:27.120 they're throwing 04:20:27.120 --> 04:20:34.079 drywall away I mean it must be a pricey venture to refurb 04:20:34.079 --> 04:20:36.479 after every move out 04:20:36.479 --> 04:20:39.989 at the end of every semester but they've got big roll away 04:20:39.989 --> 04:20:42.120 dumpsters out there so 04:20:42.120 --> 04:20:49.290 it can't be that much more keeping up an apartment thank 04:20:49.290 --> 04:20:50.479 you 04:20:50.479 --> 04:21:08.010 Deb Armentar hi Deb Armentar do I need to say my address 04:21:08.010 --> 04:21:09.879 yeah 2003 Misty Woodlane 04:21:09.879 --> 04:21:16.229 I really appreciate the comments that others have made and 04:21:16.229 --> 04:21:17.760 I want to try not 04:21:17.760 --> 04:21:23.010 to repeat things that others have said I too am opposed to 04:21:23.010 --> 04:21:24.799 this SRO I too believe 04:21:24.799 --> 04:21:32.000 that a private dorm like this does not belong in a hundred- 04:21:32.000 --> 04:21:34.280 year-old historic 04:21:34.280 --> 04:21:38.709 neighborhood especially one that is so important to the 04:21:38.709 --> 04:21:41.079 very identity of this 04:21:41.079 --> 04:21:49.450 town I want to say a couple of things about the process by 04:21:49.450 --> 04:21:51.159 which this 04:21:51.159 --> 04:21:55.159 development has has come up for discussion number one I 04:21:55.159 --> 04:21:56.159 just want to 04:21:56.159 --> 04:22:00.290 express just how surprised and I must say disappointed I 04:22:00.290 --> 04:22:02.000 was to hear that 04:22:02.000 --> 04:22:10.120 staff approved this incompatible building in such an 04:22:10.120 --> 04:22:11.920 obviously his 04:22:11.920 --> 04:22:17.989 historic neighborhood that we hear spoken of so often as 04:22:17.989 --> 04:22:19.000 part of our 04:22:19.000 --> 04:22:24.469 historic downtown the the pride and joy of Denton and I 04:22:24.469 --> 04:22:26.200 also want to speak kind 04:22:26.200 --> 04:22:28.709 of forward in the process even though I know you're not 04:22:28.709 --> 04:22:31.159 counsel you're your P&Z 04:22:31.159 --> 04:22:37.229 but that when this goes forward and I I hope that you all 04:22:37.229 --> 04:22:38.520 vote vote no to this 04:22:38.520 --> 04:22:43.159 and vote with the people and instead of with the the 04:22:43.159 --> 04:22:47.360 developer who is in this 04:22:47.360 --> 04:22:52.920 for-profit and doesn't have to to live with all this I hope 04:22:52.920 --> 04:22:55.120 the council 04:22:55.120 --> 04:22:58.639 remembers that this this wonderful city that we have that 04:22:58.639 --> 04:23:00.000 they keep touting as 04:23:00.000 --> 04:23:08.200 such a filled with so much charm such a so unique so unlike 04:23:08.200 --> 04:23:10.440 Plano Arlington and 04:23:10.440 --> 04:23:16.000 in some of the newer cities around us that when they if 04:23:16.000 --> 04:23:18.979 they say yes one by 04:23:18.979 --> 04:23:24.219 one to proposals like this they're essentially killing the 04:23:24.219 --> 04:23:24.920 thing that they 04:23:24.920 --> 04:23:31.549 love and Denton will no longer be Denton if it gets taken 04:23:31.549 --> 04:23:33.639 over piecemeal by 04:23:33.639 --> 04:23:38.729 developments that request an inter granted exceptions and 04:23:38.729 --> 04:23:40.479 exemptions one 04:23:40.479 --> 04:23:43.639 after the other we need long-term city planning that 04:23:43.639 --> 04:23:45.840 respects neighborhoods 04:23:45.840 --> 04:23:50.350 and when change does come and I believe in in change there 04:23:50.350 --> 04:23:52.200 's always I mean 04:23:52.200 --> 04:23:54.430 change is always good we don't want to resist changes for 04:23:54.430 --> 04:23:55.239 the sake of change 04:23:55.239 --> 04:23:58.829 for the sake of resisting change but change the best change 04:23:58.829 --> 04:23:59.799 comes from the 04:23:59.799 --> 04:24:03.760 grassroots the best change comes from the people so if 04:24:03.760 --> 04:24:04.840 there were people if 04:24:04.840 --> 04:24:08.899 there were students at UNT who were just begging for 04:24:08.899 --> 04:24:10.559 another one of these 04:24:10.559 --> 04:24:13.780 expensive private dorms you know then at least we could say 04:24:13.780 --> 04:24:14.840 there's a need for 04:24:14.840 --> 04:24:19.840 that if UNT was asking for this we could say there's a need 04:24:19.840 --> 04:24:20.719 the best way to 04:24:20.719 --> 04:24:24.319 establish need is really to see if people are asking for it 04:24:24.319 --> 04:24:25.520 and if people 04:24:25.520 --> 04:24:28.520 aren't asking for it and I don't hear anyone asking for it 04:24:28.520 --> 04:24:30.399 except the the 04:24:30.399 --> 04:24:35.440 developer and and again I was surprised that that our staff 04:24:35.440 --> 04:24:36.559 planning staff 04:24:36.559 --> 04:24:40.420 recommended it then that says there's not a need for it so 04:24:40.420 --> 04:24:41.479 anyway it just 04:24:41.479 --> 04:24:45.139 seems like a no-brainer to me so anyway thank you very much 04:24:45.139 --> 04:24:45.959 all of you for 04:24:45.959 --> 04:24:49.620 volunteering for your time and thanks for the neighborhood 04:24:49.620 --> 04:24:50.440 who came out I 04:24:50.440 --> 04:24:53.840 don't live in this neighborhood but I happen to work at UNT 04:24:53.840 --> 04:24:56.319 I teach at UNT I 04:24:56.319 --> 04:25:00.700 love my students my the students I teach can't afford to 04:25:00.700 --> 04:25:02.200 live in a place like 04:25:02.200 --> 04:25:06.280 this I know there's some who can but I know that there are 04:25:06.280 --> 04:25:07.120 none who are crying 04:25:07.120 --> 04:25:11.239 out for this so anyway thank you very much thank you we 04:25:11.239 --> 04:25:13.840 have a lot of cards I 04:25:13.840 --> 04:25:18.520 have actually just for the record I've got 21 in opposition 04:25:18.520 --> 04:25:19.520 and I have two in 04:25:19.520 --> 04:25:23.790 support and I'm going to just read the ones that I have 04:25:23.790 --> 04:25:24.840 that have notes on them 04:25:24.840 --> 04:25:27.790 but just for the record that's what we have in opposition 04:25:27.790 --> 04:25:29.520 and support I have 04:25:29.520 --> 04:25:34.360 Christy Woods opposed this area is an older community 04:25:34.360 --> 04:25:35.799 single family it does 04:25:35.799 --> 04:25:42.569 not lend itself to absorbing the proposed change in zoning 04:25:42.569 --> 04:25:44.120 John Bennett 04:25:44.120 --> 04:25:50.190 who is opposed SRO is not the best type of use in our 04:25:50.190 --> 04:25:52.120 neighborhood 04:25:55.120 --> 04:25:59.309 have a net of Ramsey opposed there's no comments on that 04:25:59.309 --> 04:26:02.479 one Warren Hunt is 04:26:02.479 --> 04:26:05.760 opposed not in keeping with neighborhood traffic problems 04:26:05.760 --> 04:26:07.399 and then John Morris 04:26:07.399 --> 04:26:12.750 opposed not an apartment complex it's a dormitory those are 04:26:12.750 --> 04:26:14.040 all the cards that 04:26:14.040 --> 04:26:18.670 we have this is a public hearing anyone who would like to 04:26:18.670 --> 04:26:19.799 speak on this item 04:26:19.799 --> 04:26:22.840 please come forward at this time 04:26:23.559 --> 04:26:28.799 my name is Paul Meltzer at 1914 West Oak Street first I'd 04:26:28.799 --> 04:26:29.600 like to express 04:26:29.600 --> 04:26:33.200 appreciation to Randy Hunt for the work he has done to get 04:26:33.200 --> 04:26:34.639 recognition for this 04:26:34.639 --> 04:26:38.940 historic area I would also like to express appreciation to 04:26:38.940 --> 04:26:40.319 the developer 04:26:40.319 --> 04:26:45.850 who actually did listen to a degree made some modifications 04:26:45.850 --> 04:26:47.440 in response to what 04:26:47.440 --> 04:26:50.399 was heard obviously what you're hearing tonight it's 04:26:50.399 --> 04:26:53.200 clearly not far enough and 04:26:53.200 --> 04:26:57.530 and where we are now where you know we're looking at kind 04:26:57.530 --> 04:26:58.719 of a blackmail 04:26:58.719 --> 04:27:01.579 maneuver I don't I think that's beneath you and I don't 04:27:01.579 --> 04:27:02.200 think you want to do 04:27:02.200 --> 04:27:05.120 that I don't think you truly want to do that especially 04:27:05.120 --> 04:27:06.120 when there's so 04:27:06.120 --> 04:27:09.280 evidently a deal to be had here I mean can we just have 04:27:09.280 --> 04:27:10.840 some common sense can 04:27:10.840 --> 04:27:14.809 we creatively recognize the very obvious solution to this 04:27:14.809 --> 04:27:16.600 problem the developer 04:27:16.600 --> 04:27:20.930 said he sort of expressed interest but doubt about the 04:27:20.930 --> 04:27:21.680 possibility of 04:27:21.680 --> 04:27:24.159 developing on the West Side he said well you know I couldn 04:27:24.159 --> 04:27:24.959 't do it there because 04:27:24.959 --> 04:27:29.680 it's it's dr2 can we not make a deal can we not have a 04:27:29.680 --> 04:27:33.000 continuance and and if he 04:27:33.000 --> 04:27:37.469 backs off of the historic area where he's it's clearly not 04:27:37.469 --> 04:27:39.479 welcome can we open up 04:27:39.479 --> 04:27:44.290 the opportunity for cement city to become University City 04:27:44.290 --> 04:27:45.840 to go from dr2 to 04:27:45.840 --> 04:27:49.860 DCG I would personally stand here and advocate and testify 04:27:49.860 --> 04:27:51.040 in support of this 04:27:51.040 --> 04:27:53.770 concept in support of this developer if they were to go 04:27:53.770 --> 04:27:55.120 down this route it would 04:27:55.120 --> 04:27:58.280 open up tremendous economic opportunity the city is not 04:27:58.280 --> 04:27:59.239 anti development we're 04:27:59.239 --> 04:28:04.239 anti destroying the things we value and that you value so I 04:28:04.239 --> 04:28:05.600 encourage your 04:28:05.600 --> 04:28:11.979 creativity to make this deal thank you again this is a 04:28:11.979 --> 04:28:13.559 public hearing anyone 04:28:13.559 --> 04:28:18.399 who would like to speak on this item please come forward at 04:28:18.399 --> 04:28:22.920 this time on that 04:28:22.920 --> 04:28:32.500 item yes sir we'd like another one that's all the cards 04:28:32.500 --> 04:28:36.559 need to get a card 04:28:37.719 --> 04:28:44.719 if you could fill out a card thank you 04:28:47.680 --> 04:28:56.129 Kevin Bradshaw 2052 Collins Road I'm usually opposed to 04:28:56.129 --> 04:28:58.360 everything that goes 04:28:58.360 --> 04:29:03.719 on in the city being a native I hate to see things torn up 04:29:03.719 --> 04:29:10.559 but rather than tell 04:29:10.559 --> 04:29:14.799 you a lot of things I'd ask questions that come to my mind 04:29:14.799 --> 04:29:16.559 I heard the lady 04:29:16.559 --> 04:29:20.110 want to go mention flow and what a foolish thing it was 04:29:20.110 --> 04:29:21.360 when they tore that 04:29:21.360 --> 04:29:26.680 down as I recall that building was six stories tall 04:29:26.680 --> 04:29:31.340 sat in on the highest piece of real estate over there didn 04:29:31.340 --> 04:29:32.600 't cause a real 04:29:32.600 --> 04:29:39.040 big problem but what I'm wondering is that it seems the 04:29:39.040 --> 04:29:40.360 most of the people that 04:29:40.360 --> 04:29:44.950 live close to the college are not students and the people 04:29:44.950 --> 04:29:46.200 that live away 04:29:46.200 --> 04:29:49.930 from the college are students so if you could move the 04:29:49.930 --> 04:29:51.319 students closer to the 04:29:51.319 --> 04:29:55.180 college it cut down on them out of traffic then the people 04:29:55.180 --> 04:29:55.840 that aren't 04:29:55.840 --> 04:29:59.489 students can go somewhere else to live where the students 04:29:59.489 --> 04:30:01.360 come from that would 04:30:01.360 --> 04:30:05.840 help or maybe don't know think about that 04:30:07.799 --> 04:30:13.360 what's over there maybe something nice left but they ain't 04:30:13.360 --> 04:30:15.120 much of it you know 04:30:15.120 --> 04:30:18.399 I was listening to that man and I thought man that'd be a 04:30:18.399 --> 04:30:19.479 good deal just go 04:30:19.479 --> 04:30:26.440 south all the way down to 35 be a pretty good deal but I 04:30:26.440 --> 04:30:30.280 believe it was 65 or 6 04:30:30.280 --> 04:30:34.450 when they built the first of the tall buildings over at TW 04:30:34.450 --> 04:30:37.000 and of course the 04:30:37.000 --> 04:30:42.370 world hasn't ended yet from it and it saved an awful lot of 04:30:42.370 --> 04:30:44.280 real estate it 04:30:44.280 --> 04:30:48.600 gets cheaper as you go up and why not take advantage of it 04:30:48.600 --> 04:30:50.600 but and now these 04:30:50.600 --> 04:30:56.709 SROs is a new new idea to me and I understood the one's 04:30:56.709 --> 04:30:58.000 point that by 04:30:58.000 --> 04:31:01.000 having that you don't establish a community one of the 04:31:01.000 --> 04:31:01.959 benefits of not 04:31:01.959 --> 04:31:06.209 establishing a community there is maybe they won't stay 04:31:06.209 --> 04:31:07.520 here when they get out 04:31:07.520 --> 04:31:15.350 of school then that will be a tremendous improvement to to 04:31:15.350 --> 04:31:17.600 the density of our 04:31:17.600 --> 04:31:24.750 problems but so I opinions for what I mean you obviously 04:31:24.750 --> 04:31:25.559 all think that's a 04:31:25.559 --> 04:31:32.879 wonderful idea but y'all are all me so you know but I as I 04:31:32.879 --> 04:31:33.520 was telling a man 04:31:33.520 --> 04:31:37.690 earlier at forum I'm founding the anti chamber of commerce 04:31:37.690 --> 04:31:41.079 so I'm ready I'm 04:31:41.079 --> 04:31:43.959 ready for some changes in debt I mean what what's been 04:31:43.959 --> 04:31:45.319 going on the past 30 04:31:45.319 --> 04:31:48.879 years ain't working so let's try something different and 04:31:48.879 --> 04:31:49.920 this sound like 04:31:49.920 --> 04:31:53.440 pretty good deal not very pretty but not as ugly as what 04:31:53.440 --> 04:31:55.440 over there now evening 04:31:55.440 --> 04:32:04.840 thank you sir so are you opposed or you you're in support 04:32:04.840 --> 04:32:06.159 you're in support thank 04:32:06.159 --> 04:32:12.229 you for the record great perfect timing for a little humor 04:32:12.229 --> 04:32:14.760 this evening again 04:32:14.760 --> 04:32:17.579 this is still a public hearing anyone else who would like 04:32:17.579 --> 04:32:18.440 to speak on this 04:32:18.440 --> 04:32:29.239 item don't have an item number this one okay Jennifer Lane 04:32:29.239 --> 04:32:32.280 opposition 04:32:32.280 --> 04:32:36.799 1526 Willow Street in Denton and I'm here to speak out 04:32:36.799 --> 04:32:38.440 about this in large 04:32:38.440 --> 04:32:43.500 part to add my name and opposition to the list and just the 04:32:43.500 --> 04:32:44.639 other day I saw a 04:32:44.639 --> 04:32:48.420 film of the UNT president who was talking about building 04:32:48.420 --> 04:32:49.520 some on-campus 04:32:49.520 --> 04:32:53.469 dormitories and he was talking about the not so much the 04:32:53.469 --> 04:32:55.079 need for this but that 04:32:55.079 --> 04:32:59.579 it creates a university community on campus and the details 04:32:59.579 --> 04:33:00.719 of this I don't 04:33:00.719 --> 04:33:03.940 have an it's not entirely fleshed out but I have lived in 04:33:03.940 --> 04:33:05.119 areas and taught at 04:33:05.119 --> 04:33:08.290 universities where it's much too expensive for students to 04:33:08.290 --> 04:33:08.799 live off 04:33:08.799 --> 04:33:12.369 campus and there is great effort spent on creating an on- 04:33:12.369 --> 04:33:13.799 campus community one 04:33:13.799 --> 04:33:16.959 of those was Stanford University and I got involved with it 04:33:16.959 --> 04:33:17.759 as a resident 04:33:17.759 --> 04:33:21.189 fellow which is another term for house master and lived in 04:33:21.189 --> 04:33:22.400 those communities 04:33:22.400 --> 04:33:26.159 and worked with the residents deans and so on so forth and 04:33:26.159 --> 04:33:27.479 it's really a great 04:33:27.479 --> 04:33:32.900 way to go as our community grows and people want to live 04:33:32.900 --> 04:33:34.080 near and around the 04:33:34.080 --> 04:33:38.400 university as the professor was talking about we should 04:33:38.400 --> 04:33:39.720 protect the area right 04:33:39.720 --> 04:33:42.930 around the university and we should encourage on-campus 04:33:42.930 --> 04:33:43.880 dormitory life 04:33:43.880 --> 04:33:47.459 because there's more than just SRO life there's resident 04:33:47.459 --> 04:33:48.799 assistants there's 04:33:48.799 --> 04:33:53.040 other students staffers living there there's an entire 04:33:53.040 --> 04:33:54.939 culture of residential 04:33:54.939 --> 04:33:59.169 education that already exists at UNT but can be built and 04:33:59.169 --> 04:34:00.680 in order to encourage 04:34:00.680 --> 04:34:03.939 that we have to also encourage that the neighborhood around 04:34:03.939 --> 04:34:05.000 the school be more 04:34:05.000 --> 04:34:08.869 of a residential neighborhood and not really SROs also as a 04:34:08.869 --> 04:34:10.040 New Yorker I lived 04:34:10.040 --> 04:34:13.919 where there were many SROs and these really in that 04:34:13.919 --> 04:34:16.040 environment had very sad 04:34:16.040 --> 04:34:20.619 history also became quite contentious in tenant landlord 04:34:20.619 --> 04:34:22.200 battles and so on and so 04:34:22.200 --> 04:34:24.650 forth which is a subject that I haven't been here for the 04:34:24.650 --> 04:34:25.159 whole meeting but 04:34:25.159 --> 04:34:27.720 that's something that's down the road for Denton and we 04:34:27.720 --> 04:34:28.840 should be a little bit 04:34:28.840 --> 04:34:33.040 careful about the kinds of buildings that we build that 04:34:33.040 --> 04:34:34.680 people don't have that 04:34:34.680 --> 04:34:37.669 kind of distance between themselves their living 04:34:37.669 --> 04:34:39.000 arrangements and who 04:34:39.000 --> 04:34:42.869 actually owns the property it makes for an uncomfortable 04:34:42.869 --> 04:34:44.759 environment unpleasant 04:34:44.759 --> 04:34:47.979 environment and I think we would be best off avoiding it so 04:34:47.979 --> 04:34:49.439 that's the basis of 04:34:49.439 --> 04:34:52.759 my opposition okay thank you for your comments welcome 04:34:52.759 --> 04:34:53.939 again this is a public 04:34:53.939 --> 04:34:56.759 hearing anyone else who would like to speak on this item 04:34:56.759 --> 04:34:57.919 please come down at 04:34:57.919 --> 04:35:02.790 this time if you haven't filled out a card after you give 04:35:02.790 --> 04:35:03.680 us your comments 04:35:03.680 --> 04:35:16.500 please fill out a card I'm the unknown Bob Clifton I don't 04:35:16.500 --> 04:35:17.240 know what my address 04:35:17.240 --> 04:35:25.560 is it's out side of town here I have to agree brother Brad 04:35:25.560 --> 04:35:26.240 shaw 04:35:28.200 --> 04:35:32.029 Denton has changed immensely when I was a child I used to 04:35:32.029 --> 04:35:33.720 sled on Scripture Hill 04:35:33.720 --> 04:35:40.349 as before the hospital was over built and I've watched this 04:35:40.349 --> 04:35:41.959 town become 04:35:41.959 --> 04:35:46.860 basically decimated by one university the other one's 04:35:46.860 --> 04:35:49.840 pretty good neighbor and 04:35:49.840 --> 04:35:54.220 once one time in my hot rod political career I told some 04:35:54.220 --> 04:35:56.080 people at North Texas 04:35:56.080 --> 04:36:00.759 either go up or go away they've encroached throughout this 04:36:00.759 --> 04:36:02.319 town they've 04:36:02.319 --> 04:36:07.319 taken lots of buildings lots of property off the tax rolls 04:36:07.319 --> 04:36:09.040 the latest I think 04:36:09.040 --> 04:36:13.209 being there whatever that hill is called over there on Teas 04:36:13.209 --> 04:36:14.880 ley and Dallas Drive 04:36:14.880 --> 04:36:20.950 it took nine million dollars off the tax rolls this thing 04:36:20.950 --> 04:36:23.080 here is such a ticky 04:36:23.080 --> 04:36:26.360 tacky looking thing I can't believe they're doing it over 04:36:26.360 --> 04:36:26.759 there in that 04:36:26.759 --> 04:36:31.770 neighborhood I saw one of the City Council members was here 04:36:31.770 --> 04:36:33.040 this evening 04:36:33.040 --> 04:36:35.610 and I see another one sitting there probably be the next 04:36:35.610 --> 04:36:36.279 City Council 04:36:36.279 --> 04:36:48.259 member and I think that probably from Bonnie Bray to Winds 04:36:48.259 --> 04:36:52.639 or on the north and 04:36:52.639 --> 04:37:01.000 Woodrow on the east and probably 35 on the south with Dena 04:37:01.000 --> 04:37:03.840 should be some kind 04:37:03.840 --> 04:37:08.349 of a historic preserve if nothing else but these people 04:37:08.349 --> 04:37:10.119 coming in from out of 04:37:10.119 --> 04:37:15.479 town dangling money in front of everybody is crazy this is 04:37:15.479 --> 04:37:16.200 a town to 04:37:16.200 --> 04:37:22.880 live in I can't even breathe because of the damn pollution 04:37:22.880 --> 04:37:24.959 this is this is a 04:37:24.959 --> 04:37:30.340 this is a town with residents it's known as a college town 04:37:30.340 --> 04:37:34.200 and it used to be and 04:37:34.200 --> 04:37:38.310 administrators kind of fit in instead of running big 04:37:38.310 --> 04:37:40.040 businesses that they think 04:37:40.040 --> 04:37:42.819 they're running and I'm just rambling I just wanted to take 04:37:42.819 --> 04:37:43.959 up time like Bradshaw 04:37:43.959 --> 04:37:54.330 did but I know more than he does but I think this this spot 04:37:54.330 --> 04:37:56.080 ty it broke my heart 04:37:56.080 --> 04:38:01.040 when they tore down the hospital to build that crap from a 04:38:01.040 --> 04:38:01.880 group of 04:38:01.880 --> 04:38:05.590 California but that was our mayor Julian Brock's do it and 04:38:05.590 --> 04:38:08.360 she had no roots in 04:38:08.360 --> 04:38:12.880 this town she's hillbilly from over there and Van Alstine 04:38:12.880 --> 04:38:13.919 or Van or wherever 04:38:13.919 --> 04:38:19.490 she came from and they have no they have no interest in 04:38:19.490 --> 04:38:21.200 this town other than can 04:38:21.200 --> 04:38:25.810 they flip it for some money and this has got this it's got 04:38:25.810 --> 04:38:26.759 to stop it's 04:38:26.759 --> 04:38:30.290 nationwide it's just not dead it's everywhere but this 04:38:30.290 --> 04:38:31.400 chasing the almighty 04:38:31.400 --> 04:38:36.060 buck has nothing to do with little mobility I've still got 04:38:36.060 --> 04:38:37.240 a minute left so 04:38:37.240 --> 04:38:40.950 what do you want to talk about if we could just clarify for 04:38:40.950 --> 04:38:42.080 the record are 04:38:42.080 --> 04:38:45.840 you living in the city of Denton not yet but I could at any 04:38:45.840 --> 04:38:47.000 given moment all I 04:38:47.000 --> 04:38:50.990 got to do is go across I don't it's in the county all I got 04:38:50.990 --> 04:38:51.560 to do is go across 04:38:51.560 --> 04:38:53.700 the barbed wire fence and I'll be in didn't we just want to 04:38:53.700 --> 04:38:54.159 be able to 04:38:54.159 --> 04:38:57.970 identify I will fill out a card for you so that you'll be 04:38:57.970 --> 04:38:59.279 very happy thank you 04:38:59.279 --> 04:39:05.349 sir I guess I've lived in didn't too long went out but 04:39:05.349 --> 04:39:06.279 anyway that's another 04:39:06.279 --> 04:39:12.349 story so what else can you be entertained with guess we 04:39:12.349 --> 04:39:13.439 talk about old 04:39:13.439 --> 04:39:17.479 folks and tax freezes and that silliness but anyway that 04:39:17.479 --> 04:39:18.599 has nothing to do with 04:39:18.599 --> 04:39:22.029 P&Z I can't really think of anything else I do admire you 04:39:22.029 --> 04:39:23.360 people for putting 04:39:23.360 --> 04:39:29.900 up with all this stuff yeah but I can't see the traffic I 04:39:29.900 --> 04:39:31.479 do have an idea that 04:39:31.479 --> 04:39:35.470 I'm going to present to council yes probably I'll take it 04:39:35.470 --> 04:39:36.680 to P&Z first but 04:39:36.680 --> 04:39:39.599 we'll talk about that at a later date thank you for your 04:39:39.599 --> 04:39:40.479 time thank you for 04:39:40.479 --> 04:39:47.439 your comments again this is a public hearing anyone else 04:39:47.439 --> 04:39:48.040 who would like to 04:39:48.040 --> 04:39:56.880 speak on this item please give us your name and address and 04:39:56.880 --> 04:39:57.319 then fill out a 04:39:57.319 --> 04:40:01.799 card for us please sir Tim Garenger 1108 West Congress 04:40:01.799 --> 04:40:03.959 Street I'd like to speak in 04:40:03.959 --> 04:40:06.549 opposition to this and I'll be brief because people have 04:40:06.549 --> 04:40:07.400 said pretty much 04:40:07.400 --> 04:40:10.560 the same things I'm gonna say and it's getting late I live 04:40:10.560 --> 04:40:11.840 very close to the 04:40:11.840 --> 04:40:14.659 site not close enough to get a notification also it's not 04:40:14.659 --> 04:40:15.279 involved in 04:40:15.279 --> 04:40:18.849 any type of community meetings with the developer two main 04:40:18.849 --> 04:40:20.159 reasons I'm against 04:40:20.159 --> 04:40:23.490 this are it just doesn't fit the neighborhood I moved in 04:40:23.490 --> 04:40:24.360 neighborhood 04:40:24.360 --> 04:40:26.939 full understanding that the current use is not idea it's 04:40:26.939 --> 04:40:28.520 not a pretty place it's 04:40:28.520 --> 04:40:32.049 probably gonna be developed but this proposal here looks 04:40:32.049 --> 04:40:33.200 completely out of 04:40:33.200 --> 04:40:35.500 place it's just too big for the neighborhood it also doesn 04:40:35.500 --> 04:40:35.959 't really 04:40:35.959 --> 04:40:38.560 provide anything for the people that live there that aren't 04:40:38.560 --> 04:40:39.360 students you know 04:40:39.360 --> 04:40:42.909 it'd be nice if there's some mixed use some restaurants 04:40:42.909 --> 04:40:44.360 whatever my other main 04:40:44.360 --> 04:40:48.040 concern is the traffic now I came to the last meeting and I 04:40:48.040 --> 04:40:48.680 remember some of the 04:40:48.680 --> 04:40:51.500 commission asked if they had done any traffic studies or 04:40:51.500 --> 04:40:53.680 numbers and a member 04:40:53.680 --> 04:40:56.869 of the city staff came up and said yes but it was a very 04:40:56.869 --> 04:40:57.959 weak study and it 04:40:57.959 --> 04:41:01.990 didn't really hold much weight I can tell you that the 04:41:01.990 --> 04:41:03.360 traffic there is 04:41:03.360 --> 04:41:07.349 getting worse and worse every year it's probably the most 04:41:07.349 --> 04:41:08.759 popular place in Denton 04:41:08.759 --> 04:41:14.400 to run a stop sign or to peel out I can't imagine I don't 04:41:14.400 --> 04:41:15.400 buy this idea that 04:41:15.400 --> 04:41:19.840 this is gonna make this a completely walkable situation I 04:41:19.840 --> 04:41:21.099 fully support that 04:41:21.099 --> 04:41:24.810 want people to walk and bike but as someone who has to go 04:41:24.810 --> 04:41:25.959 by youth center 04:41:25.959 --> 04:41:29.619 and Fry's our city park every day I could tell you there 04:41:29.619 --> 04:41:30.319 are plenty of cars 04:41:30.319 --> 04:41:34.189 coming in and out of those buildings and because Oak Street 04:41:34.189 --> 04:41:35.479 is one way going west 04:41:35.479 --> 04:41:37.880 anybody needs to go east it's coming down Congress Street 04:41:37.880 --> 04:41:38.639 if you look at the 04:41:38.639 --> 04:41:41.560 map and yeah there's nowhere to buy groceries around there 04:41:41.560 --> 04:41:42.759 anyone was go 04:41:42.759 --> 04:41:46.619 downtown not everybody's gonna walk a lot of people we 04:41:46.619 --> 04:41:47.319 drive down Congress 04:41:47.319 --> 04:41:51.520 Street so that's why I'm opposed thank you thank you for 04:41:51.520 --> 04:41:54.159 your comments okay 04:41:54.159 --> 04:41:57.450 and this is a public hearing anyone else who would like to 04:41:57.450 --> 04:41:59.639 speak on this item 04:41:59.639 --> 04:42:04.680 anyone else seeing none we will close the public hearing 04:42:04.680 --> 04:42:06.599 and open the floor 04:42:06.599 --> 04:42:13.400 for discussion Commissioner Taylor thank you chair so to to 04:42:13.400 --> 04:42:14.159 answer 04:42:14.159 --> 04:42:18.909 Commissioner Beck's heed from earlier I've been trying to 04:42:18.909 --> 04:42:20.400 figure out why this 04:42:20.400 --> 04:42:26.979 little strip got DCG got zone DCG in 2002 and 1999 there 04:42:26.979 --> 04:42:27.799 was a citywide 04:42:27.799 --> 04:42:32.360 planning you know organ planning called the Denton plan 04:42:32.360 --> 04:42:34.400 2020 and then it took a 04:42:34.400 --> 04:42:38.090 few years for citywide rezoning to roll down from that and 04:42:38.090 --> 04:42:38.840 a lot of the 04:42:38.840 --> 04:42:42.409 rezoning was to to match existing use especially in these 04:42:42.409 --> 04:42:43.319 established 04:42:43.319 --> 04:42:45.599 neighborhoods and so I was trying to figure out what 04:42:45.599 --> 04:42:46.560 existing uses would 04:42:46.560 --> 04:42:51.000 drive DCG which is our most intensive zoning category in 04:42:51.000 --> 04:42:52.119 our in the downtown 04:42:52.119 --> 04:42:56.939 area and I think I found the three things that that caused 04:42:56.939 --> 04:42:58.040 this first is 04:42:58.040 --> 04:43:01.200 drive-thrus drive-thrus aren't allowed in any other 04:43:01.200 --> 04:43:04.439 downtown zoning district so 04:43:04.439 --> 04:43:08.479 you had what was the quick stir and before that another 04:43:08.479 --> 04:43:09.360 restaurant that has 04:43:09.360 --> 04:43:13.400 a drive-thru at the corner of Jago and scripture so that 04:43:13.400 --> 04:43:15.240 had to be the only 04:43:15.240 --> 04:43:19.360 zoning category and that had that allowed drive-thrus was 04:43:19.360 --> 04:43:21.200 DCG and then you 04:43:21.200 --> 04:43:24.720 had it pharmacies again a pharmacy if you have a drive-thru 04:43:24.720 --> 04:43:25.159 window at a 04:43:25.159 --> 04:43:33.040 pharmacy requires DCG then this specific building is that 04:43:33.040 --> 04:43:33.880 exists there on the 04:43:33.880 --> 04:43:39.950 site today is 32,000 square feet in there's there was a 04:43:39.950 --> 04:43:42.080 limitation l-17 that 04:43:42.080 --> 04:43:45.709 was amended in 2013 and that's why I know because it was a 04:43:45.709 --> 04:43:46.560 contentious 04:43:46.560 --> 04:43:52.630 amendment whenever I first joined this commission but until 04:43:52.630 --> 04:43:56.000 2013 l-17 04:43:56.000 --> 04:44:00.810 restricted the maximum use of a professional or office 04:44:00.810 --> 04:44:02.439 space to 25,000 04:44:02.439 --> 04:44:08.000 square feet and so l-17 prevented this from being DCN or dr 04:44:08.000 --> 04:44:09.599 2 so the only 04:44:09.599 --> 04:44:13.459 category where you could have a 30,000 square foot office 04:44:13.459 --> 04:44:15.479 building was in DCG 04:44:15.479 --> 04:44:19.909 so I think that's why there's this little strip basically 04:44:19.909 --> 04:44:21.560 three of the six lots 04:44:21.560 --> 04:44:25.659 required this zoning and so they just the gap the gap lots 04:44:25.659 --> 04:44:26.799 got zoned in as 04:44:26.799 --> 04:44:31.080 well and this is kind of a flaw with the DCG zoning 04:44:31.080 --> 04:44:33.520 category it's a huge jump from 04:44:33.520 --> 04:44:38.909 DC and DCG it's you know a massive it goes multi basically 04:44:38.909 --> 04:44:40.240 multi-use with any 04:44:40.240 --> 04:44:44.849 possible use you can have you know nightclubs and office 04:44:44.849 --> 04:44:46.040 buildings and a 04:44:46.040 --> 04:44:49.000 hundred foot tall buildings and some hundred and something 04:44:49.000 --> 04:44:49.759 hundred fifty 04:44:49.759 --> 04:44:54.750 units per acre you know this really high density and that's 04:44:54.750 --> 04:44:56.360 a jump up from 45 04:44:56.360 --> 04:45:00.680 feet and you know 50 units per acre and lots and lots of 04:45:00.680 --> 04:45:02.000 restrictions on 04:45:02.000 --> 04:45:04.779 restaurants can't be bigger than 5,000 square feet no drive 04:45:04.779 --> 04:45:05.560 -throughs no gas 04:45:05.560 --> 04:45:10.630 stations no all of these other uses and so the bucket that 04:45:10.630 --> 04:45:11.959 everything lands in 04:45:11.959 --> 04:45:18.669 is DCG since that was a mistake I don't think we need to 04:45:18.669 --> 04:45:19.560 make two mistakes by 04:45:19.560 --> 04:45:24.569 expanding DCG another two or three hundred feet into this 04:45:24.569 --> 04:45:26.279 into this area this 04:45:26.279 --> 04:45:32.349 is a it doesn't really meet the context of the area even 04:45:32.349 --> 04:45:34.680 City Park has 35 foot 04:45:34.680 --> 04:45:38.639 setbacks from the curb to the to the buildings is 35 feet 04:45:38.639 --> 04:45:39.919 this would be 20 04:45:39.919 --> 04:45:44.520 feet at that 46 foot height never minding anything higher 04:45:44.520 --> 04:45:45.520 46 foot height 04:45:45.520 --> 04:45:51.240 20 feet from Scripture it in on December 25th the shadow 04:45:51.240 --> 04:45:52.560 that's cast will reach 04:45:52.560 --> 04:45:56.549 all the way across the entire street and cast the shadow on 04:45:56.549 --> 04:45:57.520 the north side of 04:45:57.520 --> 04:46:00.409 Scripture from the height of the buildings and everything 04:46:00.409 --> 04:46:01.119 else south of 04:46:01.119 --> 04:46:05.240 Scripture and north of oak is about two stories you might 04:46:05.240 --> 04:46:07.080 hit 30 35 feet at the 04:46:07.080 --> 04:46:11.259 tops of the gables of the apartment buildings over there so 04:46:11.259 --> 04:46:13.319 how do we fit in 04:46:13.319 --> 04:46:17.200 that context we don't this is not a really a historic 04:46:17.200 --> 04:46:17.959 district there might 04:46:17.959 --> 04:46:21.189 be some historic homes but at least half of its apartments 04:46:21.189 --> 04:46:22.560 built in the 60s or 04:46:22.560 --> 04:46:26.599 70s or 80s or some what could have been a historic home 04:46:26.599 --> 04:46:28.720 that's been cut into 04:46:28.720 --> 04:46:32.669 four apartments or things like that but we still I feel 04:46:32.669 --> 04:46:34.560 need to keep the context 04:46:34.560 --> 04:46:40.119 of this neighborhood and whenever we talk about context 04:46:40.119 --> 04:46:41.000 usually we talk about 04:46:41.000 --> 04:46:44.259 zoning in terms of use and so this use is allowed and you 04:46:44.259 --> 04:46:45.319 know we've got some 04:46:45.319 --> 04:46:48.520 minor dimensional requirements another important aspect of 04:46:48.520 --> 04:46:50.360 zoning is form we 04:46:50.360 --> 04:46:54.119 especially apply form in our residential areas we have side 04:46:54.119 --> 04:46:55.520 yards must be 20 feet 04:46:55.520 --> 04:46:59.330 houses must be this far apart away from the street and from 04:46:59.330 --> 04:47:00.840 alleys and fences so 04:47:00.840 --> 04:47:04.409 forth in and that forms the neighborhood it gives gives us 04:47:04.409 --> 04:47:05.040 the neighborhood of 04:47:05.040 --> 04:47:08.919 shape like it has to look a certain way and our commercial 04:47:08.919 --> 04:47:10.279 zonings really lack a 04:47:10.279 --> 04:47:14.250 lot of form guidance we we just have some really basic 04:47:14.250 --> 04:47:15.919 dimensional rules and 04:47:15.919 --> 04:47:18.790 we don't you know you can have it a brick building or a 04:47:18.790 --> 04:47:20.119 concrete building or 04:47:20.119 --> 04:47:25.500 whatever but this area with this residential mixed in if we 04:47:25.500 --> 04:47:26.680 had something 04:47:26.680 --> 04:47:29.880 that matched the form it would fit the context 04:47:29.880 --> 04:47:31.479 unfortunately we don't have form 04:47:31.479 --> 04:47:35.790 based zoning but I think this would be a prime little area 04:47:35.790 --> 04:47:37.520 this dr2 block from 04:47:37.520 --> 04:47:39.909 oak to scripture would be a perfect place to have form- 04:47:39.909 --> 04:47:40.799 based zoning that 04:47:40.799 --> 04:47:44.490 would allow two or maybe even three story apartments with 04:47:44.490 --> 04:47:46.240 enough buffer to 04:47:46.240 --> 04:47:50.099 the single-family existing homes it would allow infill one 04:47:50.099 --> 04:47:51.119 to four lots at a 04:47:51.119 --> 04:47:54.409 time we could have you could convert the houses that need 04:47:54.409 --> 04:47:55.680 to be demolished into 04:47:55.680 --> 04:47:59.540 something else but that that doesn't help us tonight 04:47:59.540 --> 04:48:00.720 because we can't enact 04:48:00.720 --> 04:48:04.400 form-based zoning tonight however that I think that's the 04:48:04.400 --> 04:48:05.200 direction we need to go 04:48:05.200 --> 04:48:11.619 with this if this were in West Campus cement city I think 04:48:11.619 --> 04:48:12.680 we do need to 04:48:12.680 --> 04:48:16.119 rezone cement city to DCG that's a place that needs 04:48:16.119 --> 04:48:18.360 commercial it needs the 04:48:18.360 --> 04:48:21.119 retail on the ground level and it'd be a great place to 04:48:21.119 --> 04:48:22.840 build a 30 or 40 or 50 04:48:22.840 --> 04:48:26.799 foot apartment you're not gonna know trees to shed to shade 04:48:26.799 --> 04:48:28.240 there's no 04:48:28.240 --> 04:48:31.669 historic homes that will be overwhelmed by a 40 or 60 foot 04:48:31.669 --> 04:48:32.919 building or 70 foot 04:48:32.919 --> 04:48:36.200 building same on South Campus we already have a large area 04:48:36.200 --> 04:48:37.360 of South Campus zone 04:48:37.360 --> 04:48:42.400 DCG and I think we could even use more down there because 04:48:42.400 --> 04:48:43.159 there isn't a 04:48:43.159 --> 04:48:46.319 historic neighborhood to protect there isn't there aren't a 04:48:46.319 --> 04:48:47.520 lot of historical 04:48:47.520 --> 04:48:51.090 assets and cultural assets there and it's still a three- 04:48:51.090 --> 04:48:52.479 block walk to campus 04:48:52.479 --> 04:48:56.380 so it's a great student housing area but I just can't see 04:48:56.380 --> 04:48:57.759 this being appropriate 04:48:57.759 --> 04:49:01.299 on the north side of town and I don't think we should take 04:49:01.299 --> 04:49:02.680 a veiled threat of 04:49:02.680 --> 04:49:06.279 something worse and double down and make two mistakes 04:49:06.279 --> 04:49:08.720 instead of one 04:49:10.159 --> 04:49:18.279 Commissioner Hespeth I didn't call Lee back up because I 04:49:18.279 --> 04:49:19.119 didn't have a question 04:49:19.119 --> 04:49:22.310 I was just going to be a long soliloquy so that that's 04:49:22.310 --> 04:49:24.400 pointless but I'll just 04:49:24.400 --> 04:49:30.520 tell you I echo everything Commissioner Taylor said I can't 04:49:30.520 --> 04:49:32.159 and I hope it's 04:49:32.159 --> 04:49:35.970 everyone's good at whole numbers and I'm really excited 04:49:35.970 --> 04:49:39.119 about Devin Taylor's 04:49:39.119 --> 04:49:42.409 Commissioner Taylor's perspective I'm excited about Larry's 04:49:42.409 --> 04:49:43.400 perspective and 04:49:43.400 --> 04:49:48.650 and I'm looking for more perspective to send a clear 04:49:48.650 --> 04:49:51.560 message the the residents 04:49:51.560 --> 04:49:56.040 in this community I think it's it's not right to take 04:49:56.040 --> 04:49:58.639 someone that is visited 04:49:58.639 --> 04:50:04.840 our area who has 100% control right it's rare that someone 04:50:04.840 --> 04:50:06.799 comes to us that has 04:50:06.799 --> 04:50:11.229 absolute autonomy they can go from meeting every need that 04:50:11.229 --> 04:50:11.799 the citizens 04:50:11.799 --> 04:50:15.479 want to absolutely ignoring every need the citizens want it 04:50:15.479 --> 04:50:16.599 never happens that 04:50:16.599 --> 04:50:22.669 way and given that opportunity they said love it or hate it 04:50:22.669 --> 04:50:25.159 if you love it we'll 04:50:25.159 --> 04:50:28.900 start at hate and if you hate it we'll start it egregious 04:50:28.900 --> 04:50:30.319 and and said take it 04:50:30.319 --> 04:50:35.049 you know and and that to me is insensitive it's 04:50:35.049 --> 04:50:37.240 disconnected to the 04:50:37.240 --> 04:50:43.549 area it's it lacks empathy for the area it lacks insight I 04:50:43.549 --> 04:50:44.599 mean I grew up on 04:50:44.599 --> 04:50:48.220 Bonnie Bray Street and I was up and down scripture all the 04:50:48.220 --> 04:50:49.159 time I went to that 04:50:49.159 --> 04:50:51.880 howdy duty a million times I don't know that howdy duty 04:50:51.880 --> 04:50:53.119 would live in any other 04:50:53.119 --> 04:50:55.389 neighborhood I mean I just don't think it would survive I 04:50:55.389 --> 04:50:56.560 mean but so I think 04:50:56.560 --> 04:51:00.029 there's just so much history in that area that has just 04:51:00.029 --> 04:51:01.119 been discarded 04:51:01.119 --> 04:51:04.029 because maybe you don't want to pay a premium for somebody 04:51:04.029 --> 04:51:05.000 else to buy from a 04:51:05.000 --> 04:51:10.080 realtor maybe you want to take advantage of some creative 04:51:10.080 --> 04:51:12.720 zoning but I really do 04:51:12.720 --> 04:51:17.479 take it as it's just disingenuous given the offer given the 04:51:17.479 --> 04:51:18.680 world given the 04:51:18.680 --> 04:51:23.319 opportunity to meet and you have complete autonomy you can 04:51:23.319 --> 04:51:24.240 meet every 04:51:24.240 --> 04:51:30.310 need or ignore every wish and you choose to come as come as 04:51:30.310 --> 04:51:31.479 far as your budget 04:51:31.479 --> 04:51:36.099 will let you and and knots and stop there and so to my 04:51:36.099 --> 04:51:38.439 earlier point when 04:51:38.439 --> 04:51:45.689 you leave 21 cards in opposition when you have one two 04:51:45.689 --> 04:51:48.959 three four five six seven 04:51:48.959 --> 04:51:56.569 eight nine I'll give Bob Clifton half ten and a half so 04:51:56.569 --> 04:51:59.400 that's 31 people in 04:51:59.400 --> 04:52:03.950 opposition and two in support and you don't I have to 04:52:03.950 --> 04:52:05.880 reconcile that with the 04:52:05.880 --> 04:52:08.700 people that live here not the people that invest here not 04:52:08.700 --> 04:52:09.439 the people that 04:52:09.439 --> 04:52:12.049 design here the people that live here and I've been in the 04:52:12.049 --> 04:52:13.119 neighborhood and I'm 04:52:13.119 --> 04:52:16.639 telling you I know it doesn't fit it does not fit at all 04:52:16.639 --> 04:52:18.040 and so I think it's 04:52:18.040 --> 04:52:22.209 just for me that that's that's what I have to reconcile and 04:52:22.209 --> 04:52:23.439 I don't think it's 04:52:23.439 --> 04:52:27.880 again the most glaring thing is they did not there's no 04:52:27.880 --> 04:52:30.080 restrictions they could 04:52:30.080 --> 04:52:33.689 meet every need that the citizens want and put a three- 04:52:33.689 --> 04:52:34.959 story building and 04:52:34.959 --> 04:52:38.119 sprawl it across that entire lot they could buy the house 04:52:38.119 --> 04:52:39.080 at the end they could 04:52:39.080 --> 04:52:41.950 buy the apartments at the end they could I'll tell you you 04:52:41.950 --> 04:52:43.119 don't need the swimming 04:52:43.119 --> 04:52:46.279 pool if you want to get creative and show some empathy show 04:52:46.279 --> 04:52:47.319 some compassion 04:52:47.319 --> 04:52:49.770 take the swimming pool out and give out an auditorium 04:52:49.770 --> 04:52:50.720 tickets now you're 04:52:50.720 --> 04:52:53.889 investing in our city you're invested in an auditorium you 04:52:53.889 --> 04:52:55.279 're saying hey kids 04:52:55.279 --> 04:52:58.020 we're not going to build a swimming pool because we want to 04:52:58.020 --> 04:52:59.240 be sensitive to the 04:52:59.240 --> 04:53:02.599 neighborhood and we're guests here but we're also going to 04:53:02.599 --> 04:53:03.560 invest in Denton and 04:53:03.560 --> 04:53:07.200 say here's season passes for everyone to go to the natatory 04:53:07.200 --> 04:53:08.319 just like different 04:53:08.319 --> 04:53:12.000 different apartment complexes give season to give a tickets 04:53:12.000 --> 04:53:12.919 to the gym or 04:53:12.919 --> 04:53:16.119 memberships to the gym that's empathy that's caring that's 04:53:16.119 --> 04:53:17.720 understanding that 04:53:17.720 --> 04:53:22.090 you bumped up against the wrong neighborhood and so there's 04:53:22.090 --> 04:53:22.840 other 04:53:22.840 --> 04:53:25.110 neighborhood and I'm absolutely I think we need to move on 04:53:25.110 --> 04:53:26.240 that post haste for 04:53:26.240 --> 04:53:29.639 cement city I mean I think that absolutely needs upgrade 04:53:29.639 --> 04:53:31.439 and so with 04:53:31.439 --> 04:53:38.400 that I'll I'll sit back in and watch commissioner Sullivan 04:53:38.400 --> 04:53:39.799 when I was going 04:53:39.799 --> 04:53:43.790 through all of this I looked at and I thought that doesn't 04:53:43.790 --> 04:53:45.080 look too good and 04:53:45.080 --> 04:53:46.979 then the more I looked I thought well maybe the 04:53:46.979 --> 04:53:49.000 neighborhood needs upgrading 04:53:49.000 --> 04:53:55.150 and then I started looking some of these letters and looked 04:53:55.150 --> 04:53:57.080 again on the maps and 04:53:57.080 --> 04:54:02.119 I'm thinking we've been told we've got two options we can 04:54:02.119 --> 04:54:03.959 vote for the change 04:54:03.959 --> 04:54:11.279 and they're proposing a 70 foot height which nobody you 04:54:11.279 --> 04:54:12.200 know none of the people 04:54:12.200 --> 04:54:17.580 want in this overlay thing 45 feet 70 feet 100 feet we 04:54:17.580 --> 04:54:19.279 could vote against it 04:54:19.279 --> 04:54:22.090 and they'll go all the way to 100 feet well my 04:54:22.090 --> 04:54:23.720 understanding is the third 04:54:23.720 --> 04:54:27.889 option is we vote against it and when they bring 100 feet 04:54:27.889 --> 04:54:29.880 we deny that and we 04:54:29.880 --> 04:54:33.360 put it back where it ought to be at whatever level we feel 04:54:33.360 --> 04:54:35.119 it's necessary or 04:54:35.119 --> 04:54:38.770 prudent or proper at that point in time so that just 04:54:38.770 --> 04:54:40.599 because we vote against 04:54:40.599 --> 04:54:45.799 this doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to do 04:54:45.799 --> 04:54:47.080 something that's against 04:54:47.080 --> 04:54:50.639 what the neighborhood wants that we still have another 04:54:50.639 --> 04:54:52.000 option down the road 04:54:52.000 --> 04:54:55.439 and that is to deny whatever plan they bring to us at that 04:54:55.439 --> 04:54:57.319 point in time am I 04:54:57.319 --> 04:55:05.759 correct in that I'll let staff address that question should 04:55:05.759 --> 04:55:06.880 the Planning and 04:55:06.880 --> 04:55:11.159 Zoning Commission recommend denial and depending on what 04:55:11.159 --> 04:55:12.720 the outcome is at City 04:55:12.720 --> 04:55:15.880 Council let's assume zoning change does not occur the 04:55:15.880 --> 04:55:17.439 applicant under both 04:55:17.439 --> 04:55:20.180 zoning districts with a split zoning district is actually 04:55:20.180 --> 04:55:20.959 able to develop 04:55:20.959 --> 04:55:25.080 with multifamily use it is a use that is permitted by right 04:55:25.080 --> 04:55:26.279 in the DCG district 04:55:26.279 --> 04:55:31.330 and the DR2 district as it relates to the height and my 04:55:31.330 --> 04:55:33.000 understanding or 04:55:33.000 --> 04:55:36.610 inference from the Commission tonight was to talk about 04:55:36.610 --> 04:55:37.959 perhaps some type of 04:55:37.959 --> 04:55:41.520 overlay that would restrict potentially the building height 04:55:41.520 --> 04:55:43.479 one of the 04:55:43.479 --> 04:55:46.680 restrictions that I believe based on what I've heard this 04:55:46.680 --> 04:55:47.680 evening from the 04:55:47.680 --> 04:55:51.369 applicant was to limit the height of the building to for 04:55:51.369 --> 04:55:53.560 example 70 story now 04:55:53.560 --> 04:55:57.169 going back to the split zoning the front half of the 04:55:57.169 --> 04:55:59.759 development which fronts 04:55:59.759 --> 04:56:04.080 scripture the building height the maximum building height 04:56:04.080 --> 04:56:05.400 is 100 feet 04:56:05.400 --> 04:56:08.200 however the DR2 district to the south which they abide 04:56:08.200 --> 04:56:09.119 which they have the 04:56:09.119 --> 04:56:13.669 ownership to if I'm not mistaken that height is capped at 04:56:13.669 --> 04:56:15.279 45 feet if I'm not 04:56:15.279 --> 04:56:19.450 mistaken thanks Julie and so they can they can you know if 04:56:19.450 --> 04:56:20.200 they can accommodate 04:56:20.200 --> 04:56:23.630 the two zoning districts and the associated development 04:56:23.630 --> 04:56:24.599 criteria for these 04:56:24.599 --> 04:56:27.810 two zoning districts technically they could develop the 04:56:27.810 --> 04:56:29.360 site now if the 04:56:29.360 --> 04:56:32.750 zoning change is approved then they have consolidated the 04:56:32.750 --> 04:56:33.959 zoning on the entire 04:56:33.959 --> 04:56:38.150 three acres and they have the ability to develop under the 04:56:38.150 --> 04:56:39.720 DCG parameters which 04:56:39.720 --> 04:56:44.119 would permit a maximum building height of 100 feet 04:56:45.279 --> 04:56:51.909 something not right it's all I gotta say okay Commissioner 04:56:51.909 --> 04:56:53.560 Beck thank you chair 04:56:53.560 --> 04:56:59.000 and all I've got a something I can add to what Commissioner 04:56:59.000 --> 04:57:01.319 Sullivan's saying as 04:57:01.319 --> 04:57:04.099 far as an understatement I've mentioned already but just 04:57:04.099 --> 04:57:05.840 you know a few comments 04:57:05.840 --> 04:57:13.520 here as I mentioned earlier in the work session the mixed- 04:57:13.520 --> 04:57:16.119 use character this 04:57:16.119 --> 04:57:20.610 area is not compatible with the DCD district along 04:57:20.610 --> 04:57:23.080 scripture that's there's 04:57:23.080 --> 04:57:26.279 no doubt about that thanks to Commissioner Tater for 04:57:26.279 --> 04:57:29.189 informing us why we got DCG in the first place and I 04:57:29.189 --> 04:57:31.040 appreciate that but clearly 04:57:31.040 --> 04:57:35.689 rather than and you know not to accuse anybody back then in 04:57:35.689 --> 04:57:37.919 2002 but why they 04:57:37.919 --> 04:57:41.490 didn't see the writing on the wall with what we're 04:57:41.490 --> 04:57:44.360 confronted with today it's a 04:57:44.360 --> 04:57:48.139 shame that they didn't revert it back to DR2 and that puts 04:57:48.139 --> 04:57:49.200 us in this position 04:57:49.200 --> 04:57:57.220 today I think the African has a wonderful product I've said 04:57:57.220 --> 04:57:58.240 that I'd be glad to 04:57:58.240 --> 04:58:01.400 see them build anywhere else around there again the idea 04:58:01.400 --> 04:58:02.159 that we could 04:58:02.159 --> 04:58:07.040 rezone cement city to DCG is great that would open that up 04:58:07.040 --> 04:58:08.959 for not only this 04:58:08.959 --> 04:58:13.009 developer but other developer the idea that we need to 04:58:13.009 --> 04:58:14.919 build this for a growing 04:58:14.919 --> 04:58:18.080 student population again I think has been reviewed by the 04:58:18.080 --> 04:58:19.119 fact by several 04:58:19.119 --> 04:58:22.080 statements here that and I guess the most glaring one is 04:58:22.080 --> 04:58:23.599 the fact that UNT is 04:58:23.599 --> 04:58:28.560 never here to support that notion the footprint that the 04:58:28.560 --> 04:58:30.000 part 7 development 04:58:30.000 --> 04:58:33.259 with its hundred and fifty dwellings per acre just simply 04:58:33.259 --> 04:58:34.479 doesn't represent a 04:58:34.479 --> 04:58:39.080 gradual transition I just don't see that it will stick out 04:58:39.080 --> 04:58:40.959 and this will diminish 04:58:40.959 --> 04:58:44.860 the neighborhood that we all really are fond of and have 04:58:44.860 --> 04:58:46.200 been for quite a while 04:58:46.200 --> 04:58:51.240 so what I would consider doing and for everybody to think 04:58:51.240 --> 04:58:52.959 about here is make a 04:58:52.959 --> 04:58:56.569 motion because we want to protect this area again from 04:58:56.569 --> 04:58:58.240 future encroachments 04:58:58.240 --> 04:59:01.159 again because this is not gonna end it's going to come back 04:59:01.159 --> 04:59:04.080 up and I don't think 04:59:04.080 --> 04:59:11.279 denial is gonna work like we want this Manal said that this 04:59:11.279 --> 04:59:13.279 could not they 04:59:13.279 --> 04:59:17.709 could work against it so my suggestion is we approve the 04:59:17.709 --> 04:59:18.560 applicant's request 04:59:18.560 --> 04:59:23.330 with the amendment that we attach a mixed-use residential 04:59:23.330 --> 04:59:24.479 overlay that 04:59:24.479 --> 04:59:27.639 limits building heights and a few other things and I would 04:59:27.639 --> 04:59:29.080 limit the building 04:59:29.080 --> 04:59:34.459 height to 40 feet I'd keep it at what dr4 is we I want to 04:59:34.459 --> 04:59:36.000 keep it at three 04:59:36.000 --> 04:59:42.069 stories if that's 40 feet fine if it's 35 feet pardon me is 04:59:42.069 --> 04:59:46.159 three story right 04:59:46.159 --> 04:59:48.919 right but that might we might squeeze it four story in that 04:59:48.919 --> 04:59:49.880 so I want to keep it 04:59:49.880 --> 04:59:54.849 at three stories keep it at now I'm okay with the 30 dwell 04:59:54.849 --> 04:59:57.599 ings per acre that's in 04:59:57.599 --> 05:00:02.840 the dr4 and the if I could just make a note for the 05:00:02.840 --> 05:00:04.560 Commission you don't want 05:00:04.560 --> 05:00:09.520 to down zone so the minimum that they would have to or the 05:00:09.520 --> 05:00:10.360 maximum they would 05:00:10.360 --> 05:00:13.040 have to do if they did the most restrictive zoning 05:00:13.040 --> 05:00:13.799 according to their 05:00:13.799 --> 05:00:18.939 law it would be 45 you don't want to go below that on your 05:00:18.939 --> 05:00:22.279 overlay okay I 05:00:22.279 --> 05:00:28.799 wouldn't or I could do not all right then let's say the 05:00:28.799 --> 05:00:30.319 requirements that 05:00:30.319 --> 05:00:36.380 allow heights and setbacks and everything in the dr2 would 05:00:36.380 --> 05:00:37.360 be what this overlay 05:00:37.360 --> 05:00:41.680 would consist of in we could start with this area that this 05:00:41.680 --> 05:00:42.959 project wants to 05:00:42.959 --> 05:00:47.270 build on but I see this expanding even further going up to 05:00:47.270 --> 05:00:49.119 Oak Street to 05:00:49.119 --> 05:00:52.279 scripture maybe a little bit further south and as far west 05:00:52.279 --> 05:00:53.119 as Bonnie Bray 05:00:53.119 --> 05:00:59.490 this is not the mentor harassed developers we need we need 05:00:59.490 --> 05:01:00.119 good 05:01:00.119 --> 05:01:04.439 dwellings for families to live in and grow at a steady rate 05:01:04.439 --> 05:01:05.639 but we need to do 05:01:05.639 --> 05:01:09.279 it that doesn't diminish this area and we lose it in the 05:01:09.279 --> 05:01:11.799 long run so I would I 05:01:11.799 --> 05:01:15.939 wouldn't make that move that we approve it with the overlay 05:01:15.939 --> 05:01:16.680 district 05:01:16.680 --> 05:01:25.119 restrictions you make an emotion are we still doing 05:01:25.119 --> 05:01:26.680 discussion well let's do 05:01:26.680 --> 05:01:29.840 discussion then I can make a motion Commissioner Ellis 05:01:29.840 --> 05:01:32.279 thank you chair thank 05:01:32.279 --> 05:01:35.840 you everyone for speaking and thank you the applicants for 05:01:35.840 --> 05:01:39.279 for presenting first 05:01:39.279 --> 05:01:42.509 off I guess I'd like to say I'm what a missed opportunity 05:01:42.509 --> 05:01:43.919 our city has had with 05:01:43.919 --> 05:01:47.080 putting us in this position this was clearly a lot that 05:01:47.080 --> 05:01:48.119 should have been 05:01:48.119 --> 05:01:52.360 rezoned a long time ago it is a mess of a zoning and it's 05:01:52.360 --> 05:01:53.840 what puts us in this 05:01:53.840 --> 05:01:58.040 position today I'm sure the reason staff is recommending it 05:01:58.040 --> 05:02:00.040 is is so we can we 05:02:00.040 --> 05:02:03.720 can collectively put one zoning on this property which 05:02:03.720 --> 05:02:05.040 makes no sense to be 05:02:05.040 --> 05:02:11.400 divided in half and while I understand that this 05:02:11.400 --> 05:02:13.680 development does not fit in 05:02:13.680 --> 05:02:20.610 this area I know we take the gamble by denying this and 05:02:20.610 --> 05:02:22.040 allowing that front 05:02:22.040 --> 05:02:25.740 portion to be up to a hundred feet I would have to say that 05:02:25.740 --> 05:02:26.799 's a gamble I'm 05:02:26.799 --> 05:02:32.869 willing to take versus rezoning this setting it up for if 05:02:32.869 --> 05:02:33.840 this project 05:02:33.840 --> 05:02:38.560 doesn't work setting it up for a hundred store a hundred 05:02:38.560 --> 05:02:40.360 feet you know throughout 05:02:40.360 --> 05:02:43.090 this entire footprint you are taking two residential 05:02:43.090 --> 05:02:44.560 properties along with this 05:02:44.560 --> 05:02:49.560 request there's two single-family properties involved my 05:02:49.560 --> 05:02:51.000 fear is this 05:02:51.000 --> 05:02:55.029 happens it collapses the rest of the street the streets on 05:02:55.029 --> 05:02:55.959 either side of it 05:02:55.959 --> 05:02:58.840 it goes towards Hickory and towards the University and 05:02:58.840 --> 05:03:00.000 takes that we've already 05:03:00.000 --> 05:03:04.229 denied an SRO that that came before us although I do think 05:03:04.229 --> 05:03:05.639 the project still 05:03:05.639 --> 05:03:10.069 alive in council but that was the Vertmans property that 05:03:10.069 --> 05:03:11.000 would clearly 05:03:11.000 --> 05:03:15.610 come back if this happens now you've got this basically 05:03:15.610 --> 05:03:17.400 student housing project 05:03:17.400 --> 05:03:23.470 in the middle of two historic districts it does not fit I 05:03:23.470 --> 05:03:24.720 understand the SRO 05:03:24.720 --> 05:03:30.090 type building is the way to develop today in university 05:03:30.090 --> 05:03:31.919 cities I don't blame 05:03:31.919 --> 05:03:35.240 a developer for putting numbers together that makes sense 05:03:35.240 --> 05:03:36.319 obviously that's what 05:03:36.319 --> 05:03:39.150 every developer wants the money has to make sense or why do 05:03:39.150 --> 05:03:40.040 the development 05:03:40.040 --> 05:03:44.880 this is not the place to do this we have places to do this 05:03:44.880 --> 05:03:46.759 if we work together as 05:03:46.759 --> 05:03:50.490 a city as has been talked about today we can make these 05:03:50.490 --> 05:03:51.919 developments work in our 05:03:51.919 --> 05:03:55.990 city to where it is profitable for the developer and it 05:03:55.990 --> 05:03:57.880 works better not only 05:03:57.880 --> 05:04:01.450 for the student population but for the people who are 05:04:01.450 --> 05:04:03.360 living here this piece of 05:04:03.360 --> 05:04:06.540 property needs development it really does it just doesn't 05:04:06.540 --> 05:04:06.959 need this 05:04:06.959 --> 05:04:10.880 development and and just because we have done things wrong 05:04:10.880 --> 05:04:12.240 in the past by 05:04:12.240 --> 05:04:16.919 rezoning this the way it was rezoned to which I will not 05:04:16.919 --> 05:04:18.880 understand but just 05:04:18.880 --> 05:04:21.069 because we've done that wrong in the past doesn't mean we 05:04:21.069 --> 05:04:21.799 have to continue 05:04:21.799 --> 05:04:25.459 doing it wrong in the future I think we have to start 05:04:25.459 --> 05:04:26.599 fixing things 05:04:27.639 --> 05:04:33.950 well sitting on this Commission for a number of years and 05:04:33.950 --> 05:04:34.799 seeing lots of 05:04:34.799 --> 05:04:39.639 different cases come before us I know a lot of times we 05:04:39.639 --> 05:04:41.200 have opportunities to 05:04:41.200 --> 05:04:45.110 speak our opinions about what we'd like to see there in the 05:04:45.110 --> 05:04:46.240 fact that we are 05:04:46.240 --> 05:04:49.229 faced with tonight is what the zoning is whether it was a 05:04:49.229 --> 05:04:51.720 mistake or not that is 05:04:51.720 --> 05:04:55.669 the zoning that's there and so really to me it boils back 05:04:55.669 --> 05:04:58.759 down to the facts that 05:04:58.759 --> 05:05:03.310 we have which is a strictly a zoning case I do appreciate 05:05:03.310 --> 05:05:04.799 the developers doing 05:05:04.799 --> 05:05:08.180 some neighborhood meetings I saw the project that you 05:05:08.180 --> 05:05:09.919 presented the Waco 05:05:09.919 --> 05:05:13.959 project and I think the project that you have taken from 05:05:13.959 --> 05:05:15.479 your neighborhood 05:05:15.479 --> 05:05:19.650 meetings to do a very different design from what you built 05:05:19.650 --> 05:05:21.560 in the past are the 05:05:21.560 --> 05:05:23.840 types of things that we've talked about and had people say 05:05:23.840 --> 05:05:26.279 about compromise that 05:05:26.279 --> 05:05:30.799 you've listened you've made changes to your project I don't 05:05:30.799 --> 05:05:31.319 know what you've 05:05:31.319 --> 05:05:34.520 invested in it to this point I'm sure a considerable amount 05:05:34.520 --> 05:05:35.279 to get it to this 05:05:35.279 --> 05:05:43.119 point me personally you may choose with the zoning to do 05:05:43.119 --> 05:05:44.959 the one option that you 05:05:44.959 --> 05:05:48.959 have which is a hundred foot tall building if you want I 05:05:48.959 --> 05:05:50.040 appreciate you 05:05:50.040 --> 05:05:53.200 not coming in and saying it as a veiled threat I love some 05:05:53.200 --> 05:05:54.119 people might take it 05:05:54.119 --> 05:05:57.290 that way that you've at least approached this that you've 05:05:57.290 --> 05:05:58.080 presented an 05:05:58.080 --> 05:06:02.700 opportunity to us to do something at a lesser density I 05:06:02.700 --> 05:06:03.799 think a more 05:06:03.799 --> 05:06:07.009 aesthetically pleasing project than what could be built 05:06:07.009 --> 05:06:08.759 there and I think it's 05:06:08.759 --> 05:06:12.180 difficult sometimes to have to face the facts of what can 05:06:12.180 --> 05:06:13.599 be built there versus 05:06:13.599 --> 05:06:17.330 what somebody's proposing to build there that is a lesser 05:06:17.330 --> 05:06:18.840 than what could be done 05:06:18.840 --> 05:06:23.799 and so I have the opinion and I'm gonna make a motion to 05:06:23.799 --> 05:06:25.479 such that we do go 05:06:25.479 --> 05:06:30.049 ahead and rezone this property and take the opportunity 05:06:30.049 --> 05:06:31.759 that we have to put an 05:06:31.759 --> 05:06:34.419 overlay on the part that can be a hundred feet tall and 05:06:34.419 --> 05:06:35.319 bring that down 05:06:35.319 --> 05:06:39.639 because the part that is not to be rezoned can already have 05:06:39.639 --> 05:06:40.900 a 45 foot tall 05:06:40.900 --> 05:06:43.900 building on it and you're essentially I believe from your 05:06:43.900 --> 05:06:45.159 drawings proposing a 05:06:45.159 --> 05:06:48.799 essentially a 45 foot building around the perimeter which 05:06:48.799 --> 05:06:49.959 you can build by 05:06:49.959 --> 05:06:57.990 right as is so I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to make 05:06:57.990 --> 05:06:58.799 a motion that we're 05:06:58.799 --> 05:07:04.340 going to approve this with an overlay on it and I'd like to 05:07:04.340 --> 05:07:05.599 have I'm gonna make 05:07:05.599 --> 05:07:19.520 the motion and we'll have probably some discussion about 05:07:19.520 --> 05:07:20.439 the 05:07:27.200 --> 05:07:34.349 although we're having obviously some discussion of some 05:07:34.349 --> 05:07:36.040 legal issues 05:07:57.200 --> 05:08:00.200 yeah 05:08:27.200 --> 05:08:30.200 , sorry. 05:08:57.200 --> 05:09:00.200 [inaudible] 05:09:27.200 --> 05:09:38.349 Lee, would you please come up we're having some discussion 05:09:38.349 --> 05:09:39.759 here on notice and 05:09:39.759 --> 05:09:45.369 our ability to do at the mic please sir. I'm gonna turn 05:09:45.369 --> 05:09:49.119 this over to Jennifer and 05:09:49.119 --> 05:09:52.799 let her explain what the issue is. I'll give a little bit 05:09:52.799 --> 05:09:53.959 of introduction and 05:09:53.959 --> 05:09:57.819 then I'll ask Jennifer to step down the legal part. The 05:09:57.819 --> 05:09:59.479 issue in being able to 05:09:59.479 --> 05:10:04.020 put an overlay on the property is that currently the notice 05:10:04.020 --> 05:10:05.319 that we have in the 05:10:05.319 --> 05:10:10.470 zoning case that we have is on the DR2 property. There is 05:10:10.470 --> 05:10:12.119 no notice in regards 05:10:12.119 --> 05:10:17.520 to the DCG property that's in the front and so the problem 05:10:17.520 --> 05:10:18.200 that I think 05:10:18.200 --> 05:10:21.169 Jennifer may clarify a little bit and we may want to have 05:10:21.169 --> 05:10:22.479 some discussion here 05:10:22.479 --> 05:10:26.250 just free mic back and forth to you about continuing this 05:10:26.250 --> 05:10:27.479 is in order for us 05:10:27.479 --> 05:10:31.529 to put an overlay over the entire property the front piece 05:10:31.529 --> 05:10:32.520 would have to 05:10:32.520 --> 05:10:37.080 be included in the notice and since it wasn't noticed we 05:10:37.080 --> 05:10:39.119 can't legally put an 05:10:39.119 --> 05:10:45.189 overlay over the DCG portion we could go ahead and up zone 05:10:45.189 --> 05:10:46.639 the back part and put 05:10:46.639 --> 05:10:49.290 the overlay on it but I don't think the Commission here is 05:10:49.290 --> 05:10:50.360 going to support that 05:10:50.360 --> 05:10:55.599 because we have no ability to do anything on the DCG when 05:10:55.599 --> 05:10:56.799 we if we were 05:10:56.799 --> 05:11:00.799 to move that forward to an it DCG on the back put an 05:11:00.799 --> 05:11:02.479 overlay then we have 70 on 05:11:02.479 --> 05:11:05.990 the back and still 100 on the front versus I think what 05:11:05.990 --> 05:11:07.000 trying to be some 05:11:07.000 --> 05:11:10.479 compromise is allow you to have some up zone on the back 05:11:10.479 --> 05:11:12.520 portion and overlay the 05:11:12.520 --> 05:11:15.770 whole thing so that you have a cap project so that's the 05:11:15.770 --> 05:11:16.799 dilemma that we 05:11:16.799 --> 05:11:22.180 have in our ability I think to try to find some compromise 05:11:22.180 --> 05:11:24.639 on the side to put 05:11:24.639 --> 05:11:28.520 an overlay on the top that's our issue and so I'm going to 05:11:28.520 --> 05:11:29.340 throw it to you and 05:11:29.340 --> 05:11:33.200 see how you would respond to wanted to do a continuance and 05:11:33.200 --> 05:11:34.439 re-notice and come 05:11:34.439 --> 05:11:39.819 back or if you want to up and down vote this evening and 05:11:39.819 --> 05:11:43.439 see where this goes if 05:11:43.439 --> 05:11:49.509 I understand correctly and I think I do any kind of an 05:11:49.509 --> 05:11:50.720 overlay that would be 05:11:50.720 --> 05:11:54.389 imposed tonight as a recommendation the P&Z does not 05:11:54.389 --> 05:11:56.279 approve the zoning nor do 05:11:56.279 --> 05:11:59.119 they establish any overlays they only recommend to City 05:11:59.119 --> 05:12:00.639 Council but it can 05:12:00.639 --> 05:12:03.380 only be for that portion that is in the zoning request 05:12:03.380 --> 05:12:04.639 tonight it could not be 05:12:04.639 --> 05:12:11.900 for the entire piece of property which makes sense I'd like 05:12:11.900 --> 05:12:13.080 a minute to 05:12:13.080 --> 05:12:19.150 discuss with Paul but to be quite frank and unless I'm 05:12:19.150 --> 05:12:24.599 totally ignorant let me 05:12:24.599 --> 05:12:27.819 visit with Paul because I'm not sure that even if the 70 05:12:27.819 --> 05:12:28.959 foot could be put on 05:12:28.959 --> 05:12:34.580 the whole thing that the P&Z would be amenable to that and 05:12:34.580 --> 05:12:35.240 I'm not sure that 05:12:35.240 --> 05:12:48.060 that's a good reason to continue so okay would ask speak to 05:12:48.060 --> 05:12:49.639 the timing of 05:12:49.639 --> 05:12:55.709 re-noticing and bringing this back depending on the next 05:12:55.709 --> 05:12:56.360 meeting schedule 05:12:56.360 --> 05:13:03.139 it's at least 30 to 45 days out to come back to maximum as 05:13:03.139 --> 05:13:04.319 it relates coming 05:13:04.319 --> 05:13:08.599 back to the planning and zoning Commission so about 30 days 05:13:08.599 --> 05:13:09.119 because we 05:13:09.119 --> 05:13:16.270 have to do notice Jennifer you looking at the calendar we 05:13:16.270 --> 05:13:18.720 don't have our next 05:13:18.720 --> 05:13:22.639 would be April the 12th 05:13:28.720 --> 05:13:34.279 April the 12th would be the soonest that we could get to it 05:13:34.279 --> 05:13:36.599 April 12th would be a 05:13:36.599 --> 05:13:42.700 planning Commission and then City Council would be it would 05:13:42.700 --> 05:13:43.680 be the 05:13:43.680 --> 05:13:48.200 following well the following Tuesday is the fourth Tuesday 05:13:48.200 --> 05:13:50.520 of the month so that 05:13:50.520 --> 05:13:54.549 would be up to the agenda committee whether or not they put 05:13:54.549 --> 05:13:55.279 it on that 05:13:55.279 --> 05:14:02.639 particular agenda but we would try for the following week 05:14:02.639 --> 05:14:09.639 so April the 12th 05:14:10.720 --> 05:14:13.880 well so long as the agenda committee allows us to put it on 05:14:13.880 --> 05:14:14.599 for the 18th 05:14:14.599 --> 05:14:18.139 right exactly and we're just double checking the notice to 05:14:18.139 --> 05:14:19.479 make sure that 05:14:19.479 --> 05:14:22.209 that we don't have the ability to do that now but we're 05:14:22.209 --> 05:14:23.119 just double checking 05:14:23.119 --> 05:14:26.599 that notice to see what was published because I have an 05:14:26.599 --> 05:14:27.319 opportunity to address 05:14:27.319 --> 05:14:33.040 that tonight actually bear with us well 05:14:53.119 --> 05:14:53.119 , I don't think we have a motion on the table. I don't know 05:14:53.119 --> 05:14:53.119 if I finished stating the motion. Yeah, okay. That's fine. 05:14:53.119 --> 05:14:59.189 We're going to take a recess just for you so that we can 05:14:59.189 --> 05:15:07.090 find a way to do this tonight. It's not going to be real 05:15:07.090 --> 05:15:15.840 quick. We have a staff of people to speak. I think what we 05:15:15.840 --> 05:15:22.919 're going to do, I think what we're going to do 05:15:22.919 --> 05:15:27.840 in respect to the time and your project is I'm going to 05:15:27.840 --> 05:15:29.639 withdraw the motion that 05:15:29.639 --> 05:15:34.279 I was beginning to state and we're going to take a recess, 05:15:34.279 --> 05:15:36.080 let staff have a few 05:15:36.080 --> 05:15:39.650 minutes to gather their facts on their calendars and then 05:15:39.650 --> 05:15:40.959 come back we'll reopen 05:15:40.959 --> 05:15:43.159 the meeting and then we'll see what we've been able to 05:15:43.159 --> 05:15:44.040 gather give you all 05:15:44.040 --> 05:15:47.299 an opportunity to discuss how you would like to go and then 05:15:47.299 --> 05:15:48.479 I think maybe an 05:15:48.479 --> 05:15:52.619 appropriate thing for us to do is a commission when we come 05:15:52.619 --> 05:15:53.560 back is have 05:15:53.560 --> 05:15:56.209 maybe a little more discussion to see if there would even 05:15:56.209 --> 05:15:57.919 be enough consensus if 05:15:57.919 --> 05:16:02.790 we re-noticed brought your project back that the Commission 05:16:02.790 --> 05:16:04.439 has a consensus that 05:16:04.439 --> 05:16:07.599 they would support that then it would be worthwhile doing 05:16:07.599 --> 05:16:08.439 the continuous and if 05:16:08.439 --> 05:16:10.740 there's not going to be support you would at least know 05:16:10.740 --> 05:16:11.720 kind of where you are 05:16:11.720 --> 05:16:15.209 this evening and we can see where the project goes from 05:16:15.209 --> 05:16:16.360 here and I think that's 05:16:16.360 --> 05:16:29.180 probably the sure the question I have is if we go with the 05:16:29.180 --> 05:16:31.599 continuance that will 05:16:31.599 --> 05:16:36.560 allow the re-noticing so the overlay could be on the entire 05:16:36.560 --> 05:16:38.439 site regardless of 05:16:38.439 --> 05:16:42.720 the P&Z decision when we go to council we wouldn't have to 05:16:42.720 --> 05:16:44.040 re-notice to put 05:16:44.040 --> 05:16:47.680 that I know for the council to actually put the overlay on 05:16:47.680 --> 05:16:48.599 the whole side if 05:16:48.599 --> 05:16:51.139 that's what they wanted to do we could do it both at the 05:16:51.139 --> 05:16:51.959 same time all right 05:16:51.959 --> 05:16:59.279 thank you so with that at 1055 and we call a 10 minute 05:16:59.279 --> 05:17:00.880 recess and then we'll 05:17:00.880 --> 05:17:03.319 reconvene 05:17:10.680 --> 05:17:14.669 good evening and welcome back from break I'm gonna call us 05:17:14.669 --> 05:17:16.919 back into order at 10 05:17:16.919 --> 05:17:25.240 after 11 and I'm gonna ask Lee to come back up and I think 05:17:25.240 --> 05:17:27.240 we're gonna clarify 05:17:27.240 --> 05:17:30.750 our notice and then have some discussion with you all then 05:17:30.750 --> 05:17:32.040 we'll continue so I'm 05:17:32.040 --> 05:17:35.610 gonna turn it over to Manal for explanation of where we are 05:17:35.610 --> 05:17:36.720 on the notice 05:17:36.720 --> 05:17:40.830 thank you chairperson strange I would like to clarify for 05:17:40.830 --> 05:17:42.560 the audience and our 05:17:42.560 --> 05:17:45.470 viewing audience as well as the Commission that I have 05:17:45.470 --> 05:17:46.240 looked at the 05:17:46.240 --> 05:17:49.400 notification that we sent out to property owners within 200 05:17:49.400 --> 05:17:50.279 and 500 feet 05:17:50.279 --> 05:17:52.919 as well as the notification that was published in the 05:17:52.919 --> 05:17:54.159 newspaper or the daily 05:17:54.159 --> 05:17:58.950 and based on that notification we have over notified the 05:17:58.950 --> 05:18:00.639 request which does 05:18:00.639 --> 05:18:04.599 indeed incorporate the property to the north that fronts or 05:18:04.599 --> 05:18:05.919 abuts scripture so 05:18:05.919 --> 05:18:10.159 if there is if there are suggestions or discussion as it 05:18:10.159 --> 05:18:11.360 relates to the 05:18:11.360 --> 05:18:15.419 creation of an overly district then that is an opportunity 05:18:15.419 --> 05:18:16.479 that the Commission 05:18:16.479 --> 05:18:20.000 has before them tonight and just so that we can be clear 05:18:20.000 --> 05:18:21.520 for the record we had 05:18:21.520 --> 05:18:26.220 noticed both in the paper and in the agenda for three acres 05:18:26.220 --> 05:18:27.319 and the breakdown 05:18:27.319 --> 05:18:30.599 of the property as I understand it is that the current 05:18:30.599 --> 05:18:32.880 zoning of dr2 is on 1.3 05:18:32.880 --> 05:18:36.740 acres and the current zoning of DCG is on 1.7 acres 05:18:36.740 --> 05:18:37.919 approximately as so 05:18:37.919 --> 05:18:42.090 altogether we've noticed both parcels so what we would do 05:18:42.090 --> 05:18:42.759 if if the 05:18:42.759 --> 05:18:46.630 Commission's inclined to make a motion is to consider the 05:18:46.630 --> 05:18:48.240 zoning the rezone on 05:18:48.240 --> 05:18:54.680 the one acreage and then the overlay on all of the acreage 05:18:54.680 --> 05:18:57.919 so we do have it 05:18:57.919 --> 05:19:01.700 noticed and I still had the floor I had a motion and I 05:19:01.700 --> 05:19:03.279 withdrawn it and I have a 05:19:03.279 --> 05:19:06.560 couple of questions it's now that we have a clarification 05:19:06.560 --> 05:19:08.520 that we can do an 05:19:08.520 --> 05:19:13.209 overlay the direction that I was started with on my motion 05:19:13.209 --> 05:19:14.959 was to put an overlay 05:19:14.959 --> 05:19:18.290 at a cap on the maximum height of the building and I 05:19:18.290 --> 05:19:20.520 believe you have two or 05:19:20.520 --> 05:19:23.400 three levels on your building and I'd like for you all to 05:19:23.400 --> 05:19:24.479 clarify what those 05:19:24.479 --> 05:19:27.459 heights are and the percentage of the building because I'd 05:19:27.459 --> 05:19:28.240 like to make my 05:19:28.240 --> 05:19:31.400 motion to where we can put a cap on it and give you the 05:19:31.400 --> 05:19:32.680 levels that you're 05:19:32.680 --> 05:19:36.959 looking for minimize the exterior portion of the building 05:19:36.959 --> 05:19:37.520 and so the 05:19:37.520 --> 05:19:40.680 questions I'm going to ask is I want to know the outside 05:19:40.680 --> 05:19:42.000 perimeter height the 05:19:42.000 --> 05:19:51.560 building I think was 46 46 okay so if we gave maybe a 05:19:51.560 --> 05:19:53.159 couple of feet just for 05:19:53.159 --> 05:19:59.529 plus or minus error 48 feet and then you have a another 05:19:59.529 --> 05:20:01.200 section that steps up and 05:20:01.200 --> 05:20:06.509 what is the height of it that's 56 yeah that's the top of 05:20:06.509 --> 05:20:07.919 the parapet yeah okay 05:20:07.919 --> 05:20:12.290 do you know about what the percentage is of that part of 05:20:12.290 --> 05:20:18.000 your building approximately 05:20:18.000 --> 05:20:22.130 footprint and and then the highest point that you have for 05:20:22.130 --> 05:20:23.639 your amenity center 05:20:23.639 --> 05:20:29.500 that you'd like to do yeah that is 68 feet 11 inches there 05:20:29.500 --> 05:20:36.599 's 67 11 or 67 11 05:20:41.080 --> 05:20:45.770 67 feet 11 inches at the highest point of the building so 05:20:45.770 --> 05:20:48.159 70 gives you trying to be 05:20:48.159 --> 05:20:51.119 a little bit of plus or minus 2 feet on what you think in 05:20:51.119 --> 05:20:52.159 case there's some 05:20:52.159 --> 05:20:56.299 variation in topography or something like that and then 05:20:56.299 --> 05:20:57.159 they would like to 05:20:57.159 --> 05:21:01.630 get the percentages of those in the direction that I was 05:21:01.630 --> 05:21:03.000 going to go is to 05:21:03.000 --> 05:21:06.569 take a 35 degree the slope that we've talked about in our 05:21:06.569 --> 05:21:07.680 work session two 05:21:07.680 --> 05:21:11.799 weeks ago and again tonight if we kept that that and did a 05:21:11.799 --> 05:21:13.479 percentage so if you 05:21:13.479 --> 05:21:16.790 can give me the percentage of your 58 feet area if you 05:21:16.790 --> 05:21:17.560 could come up to the 05:21:17.560 --> 05:21:26.990 microphone that would be helpful so that's 58 feet for the 05:21:26.990 --> 05:21:28.639 five-story and 05:21:28.639 --> 05:21:38.880 the five-story is I do not have that square footage here at 05:21:38.880 --> 05:21:41.360 hand today but if 05:21:41.360 --> 05:21:44.360 we were to 05:21:57.159 --> 05:22:02.470 could this drawing be used as an exhibit to represent the 05:22:02.470 --> 05:22:04.279 limits I hate I know 05:22:04.279 --> 05:22:10.880 it's not an ADP or an SUV or something. We'd need more 05:22:10.880 --> 05:22:13.880 specificity as it relates to so the 05:22:13.880 --> 05:22:18.049 elevations and the heights and the staggering that sure you 05:22:18.049 --> 05:22:18.680 have the square 05:22:18.680 --> 05:22:24.930 footage of the five-story of the fifth story. Let me see if 05:22:24.930 --> 05:22:25.400 I have anything 05:22:25.400 --> 05:22:30.400 additional to add to this. 05:22:39.279 --> 05:22:46.319 Try and scale it. Do you have a scaler? 05:22:55.400 --> 05:22:58.400 [inaudible] 05:23:26.080 --> 05:23:26.080 I appreciate where you're headed we just don't have those 05:23:26.080 --> 05:23:30.919 numbers and we weren't 05:23:30.919 --> 05:23:33.919 prepared for that. 05:23:41.119 --> 05:23:44.119 Try that. 05:23:55.400 --> 05:24:05.319 Can I ask what what your height you're trying to achieve? 05:24:05.319 --> 05:24:06.360 What do you this 05:24:06.360 --> 05:24:09.729 overlay that you're considering? Just trying to do a multi- 05:24:09.729 --> 05:24:11.000 stage overlay and 05:24:11.000 --> 05:24:14.159 the perimeter of the building can be a maximum height. It 05:24:14.159 --> 05:24:15.360 would have to conform 05:24:15.360 --> 05:24:19.080 to the building slope that we've talked about the 35 degree 05:24:19.080 --> 05:24:21.119 and so the fifth 05:24:21.119 --> 05:24:24.770 story could be a 58 feet but it would only be a percentage 05:24:24.770 --> 05:24:26.040 of the whole thing 05:24:26.040 --> 05:24:29.520 couldn't get bigger would be pretty much what they have 05:24:29.520 --> 05:24:32.639 proposed and then the 05:24:32.639 --> 05:24:36.509 amenity center would be at 70 and be it has to be within 05:24:36.509 --> 05:24:38.200 the 35 and then it has 05:24:38.200 --> 05:24:42.729 to be the size that they're talking about that the building 05:24:42.729 --> 05:24:43.919 can't grow out 05:24:43.919 --> 05:24:49.040 to the 35 it's pretty much capped at the 48 feet sloping at 05:24:49.040 --> 05:24:50.360 35 and then the 05:24:50.360 --> 05:24:53.279 square footage that they have a fifth five story is capped 05:24:53.279 --> 05:24:54.159 and then the square 05:24:54.159 --> 05:24:58.139 footage at the essentially 70 foot would be capped by a 05:24:58.139 --> 05:24:59.759 square footage number as 05:24:59.759 --> 05:25:02.419 well that they can't exceed so the building can't get 05:25:02.419 --> 05:25:03.360 bigger than what 05:25:03.360 --> 05:25:06.709 they've proposed and shown. But we would be looking at 05:25:06.709 --> 05:25:08.639 something four stories or 05:25:08.639 --> 05:25:16.360 higher. On the perimeter. Well in the middle though it 05:25:16.360 --> 05:25:17.520 would be higher. The 05:25:17.520 --> 05:25:21.970 amenity center whatever that small amount is in the park 05:25:21.970 --> 05:25:22.959 and garage. 05:25:32.360 --> 05:25:41.759 Approximately 80,000. Can we do percentages? 10% in the top 05:25:41.759 --> 05:25:41.840 and 05:25:42.360 --> 05:25:49.150 he's calculating a percentage now for the story. Okay. Okay 05:25:49.150 --> 05:25:49.319 . I go ahead and 05:25:49.319 --> 05:25:53.799 start to make the motion and then fill in the percentages. 05:25:53.799 --> 05:25:56.400 Can we do that? So we 05:25:56.400 --> 05:25:58.799 can get going? 05:26:04.159 --> 05:26:08.959 Okay. Well can we do a friendly amendment once we get the 05:26:08.959 --> 05:26:11.759 percentages or not? 05:26:11.759 --> 05:26:16.189 And then gives us how much can be at 58 and how much can be 05:26:16.189 --> 05:26:18.040 at 70? 05:26:36.040 --> 05:26:42.110 No we take the footprint of the entire building which is 05:26:42.110 --> 05:26:42.639 this entire 05:26:42.639 --> 05:26:48.779 footprint and then we're reducing basically that right 05:26:48.779 --> 05:26:49.599 there. 05:27:03.080 --> 05:27:06.509 Hey Lee. I'm gonna go ahead and get started with motion if 05:27:06.509 --> 05:27:07.479 you guys can get 05:27:07.479 --> 05:27:11.020 the percentage on the 58 foot and then the final percentage 05:27:11.020 --> 05:27:11.880 hopefully by the 05:27:11.880 --> 05:27:17.009 time we get the motion out we can put the numbers in. Okay 05:27:17.009 --> 05:27:19.240 after a lot of 05:27:19.240 --> 05:27:25.680 discussion and clarifying the notice and I had made some 05:27:25.680 --> 05:27:27.400 comments about my 05:27:27.400 --> 05:27:31.090 feelings about where we stood and the facts that we have 05:27:31.090 --> 05:27:32.680 and so I was going to 05:27:32.680 --> 05:27:36.610 make a motion and I am going to make a motion to rezone the 05:27:36.610 --> 05:27:39.159 1.3 acres from DR2 05:27:39.159 --> 05:27:44.720 to DCG so the entire three acre site would be DCG and based 05:27:44.720 --> 05:27:46.119 on what the 05:27:46.119 --> 05:27:53.270 current heights are that they can do and the DR2 I'm going 05:27:53.270 --> 05:27:56.400 to put an overlay over 05:27:56.400 --> 05:28:00.639 the entire site on the perimeter of the building to be 48 05:28:00.639 --> 05:28:02.159 feet. So on the 05:28:02.159 --> 05:28:06.240 perimeter of the building it cannot be taller than 48 feet. 05:28:06.240 --> 05:28:08.159 For the next overlay 05:28:08.159 --> 05:28:11.520 it will have to be within the 35 degree slope that's in our 05:28:11.520 --> 05:28:14.720 design criteria. That 05:28:14.720 --> 05:28:22.439 next staggered cap would be at 58 feet. It would continue 05:28:22.439 --> 05:28:24.319 on the 35 degree slope 05:28:24.319 --> 05:28:28.299 up to a maximum height of 70 feet and I'd like the 05:28:28.299 --> 05:28:30.240 percentage that you need 05:28:30.240 --> 05:28:34.819 for the 70 and the percentage that you need for the 58 foot 05:28:34.819 --> 05:28:35.919 height of your 05:28:35.919 --> 05:28:38.319 building. 05:28:45.560 --> 05:28:47.220 Is that good enough here or do we need the actual two 05:28:47.220 --> 05:28:50.439 numbers to put in there 05:28:50.439 --> 05:28:55.639 for the percentage? Okay. 05:29:00.240 --> 05:29:10.319 For the purposes of giving the applicant the opportunity to 05:29:10.319 --> 05:29:10.599 get the 05:29:10.599 --> 05:29:13.759 numbers I want to go ahead and do this and explain that 05:29:13.759 --> 05:29:14.880 what trying to do is 05:29:14.880 --> 05:29:18.990 to within the staggered and even limit within those stag 05:29:18.990 --> 05:29:20.400 gers even more the 05:29:20.400 --> 05:29:23.040 square footage of what they do so they can't build a larger 05:29:23.040 --> 05:29:24.000 building it will be 05:29:24.000 --> 05:29:27.159 inside and it will be a smaller amount at 58 and then 05:29:27.159 --> 05:29:28.560 whatever the small amount 05:29:28.560 --> 05:29:31.139 they need for the amenity center. So we get the numbers we 05:29:31.139 --> 05:29:32.279 'll put those in here 05:29:32.279 --> 05:29:38.549 at 58 and 70 foot and that's my motion and Commissioner R 05:29:38.549 --> 05:29:40.279 oussel. Thank you 05:29:40.279 --> 05:29:45.840 chair. The motion is not done. I was actually wanting to 05:29:45.840 --> 05:29:47.279 officially second 05:29:47.279 --> 05:29:49.430 this but I want to say a couple things before I went on 05:29:49.430 --> 05:29:50.360 record with a second. 05:29:50.360 --> 05:29:56.430 First it's 1125 at night and so I appreciate everyone 05:29:56.430 --> 05:29:57.319 staying here and 05:29:57.319 --> 05:30:02.029 listening to us discuss and listening to fellow citizens 05:30:02.029 --> 05:30:04.479 talk and it's it's most 05:30:04.479 --> 05:30:06.880 helpful to the Commission to actually have individuals from 05:30:06.880 --> 05:30:07.639 the community come 05:30:07.639 --> 05:30:10.259 out and speak and so I thank you for that and those who 05:30:10.259 --> 05:30:11.360 have party already 05:30:11.360 --> 05:30:14.520 left and fell asleep I thank them as well for staying as 05:30:14.520 --> 05:30:15.159 long as possible. 05:30:15.159 --> 05:30:19.439 Given that the lower the two zoning's here the DCG and the 05:30:19.439 --> 05:30:21.000 DR2 the lower the 05:30:21.000 --> 05:30:26.619 two zoning's DR2 allows for 45 foot high structure I feel 05:30:26.619 --> 05:30:28.639 that the chairs motion 05:30:28.639 --> 05:30:32.200 to limit the perimeter of the entire structure to the 05:30:32.200 --> 05:30:33.599 basically the DR2 05:30:33.599 --> 05:30:39.720 level give three feet is a reasonable solution to what's 05:30:39.720 --> 05:30:41.240 been presented. I feel 05:30:41.240 --> 05:30:45.150 that there is a unique character on the east and west of 05:30:45.150 --> 05:30:46.799 this of this property 05:30:46.799 --> 05:30:50.259 in the West Oak and the Oak Hickory district. I do feel 05:30:50.259 --> 05:30:51.400 that this little 05:30:51.400 --> 05:30:54.680 peninsula is kind of on its own and in a lot of ways kind 05:30:54.680 --> 05:30:56.040 of forgotten in terms 05:30:56.040 --> 05:30:58.459 of maintenance if you drive on that I don't think the roads 05:30:58.459 --> 05:30:59.520 are that great the 05:30:59.520 --> 05:31:03.400 structures there are dilapidated in a lot of ways and so I 05:31:03.400 --> 05:31:04.759 feel like someone 05:31:04.759 --> 05:31:07.380 coming in and maybe revitalizing it although it's not the 05:31:07.380 --> 05:31:09.119 perfect solution I 05:31:09.119 --> 05:31:13.500 feel like it is a move forward to have that property start 05:31:13.500 --> 05:31:14.919 contributing to the 05:31:14.919 --> 05:31:17.889 neighborhood hopefully in a productive way and so I say all 05:31:17.889 --> 05:31:18.479 that to say I 05:31:18.479 --> 05:31:22.740 appreciate your feedback I understand that you don't want 05:31:22.740 --> 05:31:25.400 it in so so many ways 05:31:25.400 --> 05:31:28.409 but I feel it's a it's it's a good move for the overall 05:31:28.409 --> 05:31:30.200 city and then with that 05:31:30.200 --> 05:31:36.439 I would charge Earl Escobar personally to look at traffic 05:31:36.439 --> 05:31:37.439 and infrastructure 05:31:37.439 --> 05:31:41.490 because I feel like in my mind the biggest issue of this 05:31:41.490 --> 05:31:42.599 going in is the 05:31:42.599 --> 05:31:46.919 impact on the thoroughfares out I know just from experience 05:31:46.919 --> 05:31:47.560 Congress is the 05:31:47.560 --> 05:31:50.720 quickest way down to Carroll so if you're at scripture to 05:31:50.720 --> 05:31:51.560 get to Carroll 05:31:51.560 --> 05:31:54.069 the quickest way is Congress and that is a quiet 05:31:54.069 --> 05:31:55.520 neighborhood street and so I 05:31:55.520 --> 05:31:58.360 don't I don't know the future of scripture but I just want 05:31:58.360 --> 05:31:59.040 to make sure 05:31:59.040 --> 05:32:03.240 that the roads are being redone and rebuilt and maybe even 05:32:03.240 --> 05:32:04.599 expanded to make 05:32:04.599 --> 05:32:07.900 sure that the traffic flow that this would create and 05:32:07.900 --> 05:32:09.400 trying to get to Kroger 05:32:09.400 --> 05:32:12.619 wherever else would be hopefully mitigated to surrounding 05:32:12.619 --> 05:32:14.119 neighbors and 05:32:14.119 --> 05:32:17.630 with that I second the motion before open for discussion if 05:32:17.630 --> 05:32:18.279 you all had 05:32:18.279 --> 05:32:21.520 opportunity to get your percentage 05:32:23.040 --> 05:32:28.529 five story 70% which includes the parking garage and then 05:32:28.529 --> 05:32:29.680 the amenity space 05:32:29.680 --> 05:32:35.529 call it 15% so 15% at 70 what was the percentage on the 58 05:32:35.529 --> 05:32:36.680 to 5 story parking 05:32:36.680 --> 05:32:47.520 garage 70% 70 yes and those are all inside the 35 degree 05:32:47.520 --> 05:32:49.240 slope okay from the 05:32:49.240 --> 05:32:54.209 perimeter looking at your building 46 four story building 05:32:54.209 --> 05:32:55.400 the interior portion 05:32:55.400 --> 05:32:58.610 of it as it comes inside from Street View you won't see 05:32:58.610 --> 05:32:59.479 those will stay 05:32:59.479 --> 05:33:04.479 inside the 35 degree slope yes the residential proximity 05:33:04.479 --> 05:33:05.439 slope okay 05:33:05.439 --> 05:33:10.409 perfect okay we have a first and a second and open the 05:33:10.409 --> 05:33:11.119 floor for discussion 05:33:11.119 --> 05:33:14.759 Commissioner Beck thank you chair and I appreciate your 05:33:14.759 --> 05:33:16.959 efforts to get this down 05:33:16.959 --> 05:33:21.409 to what you consider more reasonable size but I still can't 05:33:21.409 --> 05:33:23.880 go along with it I to 05:33:23.880 --> 05:33:27.689 me it seems like a sellout I think what the neighborhood is 05:33:27.689 --> 05:33:28.599 asking is for 05:33:28.599 --> 05:33:33.389 something much less three stories is probably the limit I 05:33:33.389 --> 05:33:34.479 would go on that I 05:33:34.479 --> 05:33:38.959 would have a hard time voting on this just simply because 05:33:38.959 --> 05:33:40.479 this isn't really 05:33:40.479 --> 05:33:43.959 where we wanted to go it may seem like a good compromise 05:33:43.959 --> 05:33:46.240 but to me it's it's I 05:33:46.240 --> 05:33:50.290 don't see the neighborhood buying into this at all and 05:33:50.290 --> 05:33:52.080 feeling like we sold out 05:33:52.080 --> 05:33:58.270 on them so I would vote no on this Commissioner Ellis thank 05:33:58.270 --> 05:33:59.759 you chair and I 05:33:59.759 --> 05:34:03.479 appreciate the efforts of everyone to my concern is you 05:34:03.479 --> 05:34:05.040 know an overlays in place 05:34:05.040 --> 05:34:08.400 to protect the area and trying to write this after being at 05:34:08.400 --> 05:34:10.080 a meeting for six 05:34:10.080 --> 05:34:13.529 plus hours now is dangerous not only for the city but even 05:34:13.529 --> 05:34:14.720 for the developer 05:34:14.720 --> 05:34:19.959 trying to you know willy-nilly numbers like that and and 05:34:19.959 --> 05:34:21.799 and and so no I'm I 05:34:21.799 --> 05:34:30.319 can't support it Commissioner Tyler thank you chair yeah I 05:34:30.319 --> 05:34:33.549 should have the same concerns this is you know the this 05:34:33.549 --> 05:34:35.000 doesn't really change 05:34:35.000 --> 05:34:39.430 the the scale or mass of the building 70% at 58 feet 05:34:39.430 --> 05:34:41.799 basically 60 feet that's 05:34:41.799 --> 05:34:46.500 you know basically three-quarters you know is still going 05:34:46.500 --> 05:34:47.799 to be much taller 05:34:47.799 --> 05:34:50.799 than anything else around it's going to dwarf the two-story 05:34:50.799 --> 05:34:51.759 apartments that are 05:34:51.759 --> 05:34:55.080 right next door it's going to be you know a lot more 05:34:55.080 --> 05:34:56.680 massive than the 05:34:56.680 --> 05:34:59.479 apartments across the street it's still going to cast that 05:34:59.479 --> 05:35:00.560 shadow you know in 05:35:00.560 --> 05:35:06.450 December noon day Sun all the way across scripture and and 05:35:06.450 --> 05:35:07.599 I do think it doesn't 05:35:07.599 --> 05:35:10.610 fit the context and I don't know what overlay we could put 05:35:10.610 --> 05:35:11.880 on you know 05:35:11.880 --> 05:35:15.500 something like a straight 45 foot overlay aiming for about 05:35:15.500 --> 05:35:16.400 three maybe a 05:35:16.400 --> 05:35:20.080 short four stories but I don't think that the developer 05:35:20.080 --> 05:35:21.479 would be amenable to 05:35:21.479 --> 05:35:25.069 that and so so I can't I can't even think of an overlay 05:35:25.069 --> 05:35:25.799 that would work and 05:35:25.799 --> 05:35:29.799 trying to trying to write it right now at 1130 at night 05:35:29.799 --> 05:35:32.759 also isn't good so for 05:35:32.759 --> 05:35:36.080 those reasons I really think we need to at this point I 05:35:36.080 --> 05:35:37.279 think the only only 05:35:37.279 --> 05:35:41.959 thing we can do is deny and if they're if if the developer 05:35:41.959 --> 05:35:43.479 comes up with the 05:35:43.479 --> 05:35:46.680 solution between now and City Council and City Council can 05:35:46.680 --> 05:35:48.119 take into you know 05:35:48.119 --> 05:35:50.880 into consideration the context and the concern of the 05:35:50.880 --> 05:35:52.639 neighborhood then they 05:35:52.639 --> 05:35:57.279 can override or denial but trying to write it at midnight 05:35:57.279 --> 05:35:58.680 it's not going to 05:35:58.680 --> 05:36:05.659 work okay well I put a motion out and I'm gonna be calling 05:36:05.659 --> 05:36:06.319 for a vote on it 05:36:06.319 --> 05:36:09.189 and the last thing I'm gonna say is as servant on this 05:36:09.189 --> 05:36:10.560 Commission for a long 05:36:10.560 --> 05:36:15.090 time like yourself we had a project similar to this on Fry 05:36:15.090 --> 05:36:16.119 Street and I 05:36:16.119 --> 05:36:18.590 think they wanted an extra two feet and it didn't go and so 05:36:18.590 --> 05:36:19.240 now we have a 05:36:19.240 --> 05:36:23.069 project that's even farther away they can build a 45 foot 05:36:23.069 --> 05:36:24.319 tall building on it 05:36:24.319 --> 05:36:26.930 and they can build a hundred foot tall on portion of it and 05:36:26.930 --> 05:36:28.400 I think sometimes 05:36:28.400 --> 05:36:31.799 when we have opportunities to do something even though it 05:36:31.799 --> 05:36:32.880 is late this 05:36:32.880 --> 05:36:36.409 has been talked about now for two weeks and we've all had 05:36:36.409 --> 05:36:37.880 discussions about it 05:36:37.880 --> 05:36:40.290 and we're gonna take action on it one way or the other 05:36:40.290 --> 05:36:41.360 tonight and it will move 05:36:41.360 --> 05:36:43.740 forward and then we will have had our opportunity to do 05:36:43.740 --> 05:36:44.799 something with it and 05:36:44.799 --> 05:36:47.139 then they will move forward with whatever they choose to do 05:36:47.139 --> 05:36:47.680 with their 05:36:47.680 --> 05:36:51.229 project that's why I've made the motion that I have I know 05:36:51.229 --> 05:36:52.439 there are neighbors 05:36:52.439 --> 05:36:56.880 that do not want it and also recognize that the people that 05:36:56.880 --> 05:36:57.599 own the property 05:36:57.599 --> 05:37:01.459 by right can build what they've shown us that they can 05:37:01.459 --> 05:37:03.040 build and so for those 05:37:03.040 --> 05:37:06.290 reasons I think it's a good compromise to try to maintain 05:37:06.290 --> 05:37:07.720 as close as we can on 05:37:07.720 --> 05:37:10.950 the exterior of the building of what they can do and be 05:37:10.950 --> 05:37:12.439 somewhat of a 05:37:12.439 --> 05:37:15.599 compromise on that particular site and so with that I'm 05:37:15.599 --> 05:37:16.680 going to call for a 05:37:16.680 --> 05:37:21.360 vote on the motion that is stated and we'll see where we 05:37:21.360 --> 05:37:22.159 end up this evening 05:37:22.159 --> 05:37:25.959 I'll call for a vote on the board 05:37:42.439 --> 05:37:48.840 the motion will fail five to two 05:37:54.919 --> 05:37:59.159 Commissioner Tyler I move we recommend denial to City 05:37:59.159 --> 05:38:03.560 Council Commissioner Beck 05:38:05.000 --> 05:38:11.069 question first so the option of doing another type of 05:38:11.069 --> 05:38:12.959 overlay that keeps us 05:38:12.959 --> 05:38:17.000 below three stories is probably you think is gonna hurt us 05:38:17.000 --> 05:38:20.080 more than help us 05:38:21.759 --> 05:38:28.099 sorry are you asking below the dr2 well I understand I have 05:38:28.099 --> 05:38:28.720 to keep it at the 05:38:28.720 --> 05:38:35.200 yard yeah 45 again my concern is to protect this area down 05:38:35.200 --> 05:38:35.240 the road and if 05:38:35.240 --> 05:38:38.610 we deny and it goes to council yeah I'll miss her I but I 05:38:38.610 --> 05:38:40.119 can't hear you okay my 05:38:40.119 --> 05:38:44.740 my concern is to protect this area in the long term that's 05:38:44.740 --> 05:38:46.040 why I wanted to try 05:38:46.040 --> 05:38:51.599 and create an overlay that would keep it at a minimum for a 05:38:51.599 --> 05:38:53.080 long time it's not 05:38:53.080 --> 05:38:56.439 permanent there's probably some other things we can do down 05:38:56.439 --> 05:38:57.680 the road but if we 05:38:57.680 --> 05:39:00.639 deny tonight and it goes to council then there's that risk 05:39:00.639 --> 05:39:03.360 that this thing could 05:39:03.360 --> 05:39:07.689 get built anyway and I'm just trying to avoid that so I 05:39:07.689 --> 05:39:09.560 guess I'm just asking 05:39:09.560 --> 05:39:17.759 the question is it worth the risk of voting denial or 05:39:17.759 --> 05:39:19.159 considering a motion 05:39:19.159 --> 05:39:24.279 for an overlay that's equivalent to dr2 I can't basically 05:39:24.279 --> 05:39:26.560 recommend which motion 05:39:26.560 --> 05:39:32.630 you should make but I can clarify the initial we took a 05:39:32.630 --> 05:39:33.479 recess just to 05:39:33.479 --> 05:39:37.979 discern what the notification parameters were and based on 05:39:37.979 --> 05:39:39.479 that it was evident 05:39:39.479 --> 05:39:43.290 that because of the over notification that an overlay 05:39:43.290 --> 05:39:44.919 district can be placed 05:39:44.919 --> 05:39:49.090 on the entire three acres even though the request before 05:39:49.090 --> 05:39:50.000 you is for an 05:39:50.000 --> 05:39:52.459 application for a change in zoning for the sudden portion 05:39:52.459 --> 05:39:53.319 of the property which 05:39:53.319 --> 05:39:59.639 I believe is 1.3 acre acres that being said it you know if 05:39:59.639 --> 05:40:01.119 if you're looking at 05:40:01.119 --> 05:40:04.830 this protection overlay district and you're looking at 05:40:04.830 --> 05:40:05.939 parameters that have 05:40:05.939 --> 05:40:09.750 consistency you can't go below the base zoning of that 05:40:09.750 --> 05:40:11.080 district as legal 05:40:11.080 --> 05:40:13.889 indicated so if you're looking at the parameters or the 05:40:13.889 --> 05:40:15.159 development criteria 05:40:15.159 --> 05:40:19.240 associated with the dr2 zoning district then for instance 05:40:19.240 --> 05:40:20.680 you could visit the 05:40:20.680 --> 05:40:23.400 building height you could visit the setbacks now the only 05:40:23.400 --> 05:40:24.040 additional 05:40:24.040 --> 05:40:26.869 opportunity you have with the overlay district opposed to 05:40:26.869 --> 05:40:27.560 the physical 05:40:27.560 --> 05:40:31.430 parameters is looking at enhanced screening or landscaping 05:40:31.430 --> 05:40:32.400 mechanisms as 05:40:32.400 --> 05:40:37.639 well so that's what you have before you is to provide a 05:40:37.639 --> 05:40:39.000 recommendation on the 05:40:39.000 --> 05:40:41.419 on the request itself was it which is a change in zoning 05:40:41.419 --> 05:40:42.439 and one of the elements 05:40:42.439 --> 05:40:45.599 that was brought up by the Commission as a discussion point 05:40:45.599 --> 05:40:46.520 was if there is an 05:40:46.520 --> 05:40:51.490 overlay district what does it encompass or what is the what 05:40:51.490 --> 05:40:52.400 are the meets and 05:40:52.400 --> 05:40:57.369 bounds of it and what are the associated hard criteria that 05:40:57.369 --> 05:40:58.200 can be established 05:40:58.200 --> 05:41:03.560 with it just to clarify for you to Commissioner back they 05:41:03.560 --> 05:41:04.360 have the ability 05:41:04.360 --> 05:41:11.520 to put 45 45 foot tall building throughout the entire three 05:41:11.520 --> 05:41:12.880 acres 05:41:12.880 --> 05:41:16.750 currently so your overlay if you put it at 45 would it be 05:41:16.750 --> 05:41:17.799 of no effect because 05:41:17.799 --> 05:41:21.200 they can do that now okay that helps thank you and I'll 05:41:21.200 --> 05:41:21.520 trust the 05:41:21.520 --> 05:41:26.810 Commissioner taters judgment and second the motion we have 05:41:26.810 --> 05:41:28.599 a first and a second 05:41:28.599 --> 05:41:31.040 for denial 05:41:36.119 --> 05:41:42.479 any any discussion none well I'll make comment and then we 05:41:42.479 --> 05:41:43.639 're a call for a vote 05:41:43.639 --> 05:41:49.200 I think we had an opportunity to do something tonight and 05:41:49.200 --> 05:41:50.840 we'll see what 05:41:50.840 --> 05:41:57.990 happens I don't agree with the now because I think the 05:41:57.990 --> 05:41:58.720 opportunity for us 05:41:58.720 --> 05:42:03.830 to do some restrictions on it will go out the window and we 05:42:03.830 --> 05:42:04.479 'll lose the 05:42:04.479 --> 05:42:09.299 ability to have some say in what this project is so because 05:42:09.299 --> 05:42:10.880 of that I will not 05:42:10.880 --> 05:42:14.799 support the demand denial and now have a couple other 05:42:14.799 --> 05:42:15.520 people that would like to 05:42:15.520 --> 05:42:19.959 speak Commissioner Hudson yeah briefly out of respect for 05:42:19.959 --> 05:42:21.560 the next item I'll be 05:42:21.560 --> 05:42:29.369 super brief again I reiterate if they if they it's zoned 05:42:29.369 --> 05:42:31.240 what it is that's at our 05:42:31.240 --> 05:42:37.310 hands if they they had an opportunity to tailor-make it as 05:42:37.310 --> 05:42:38.520 well as we had an 05:42:38.520 --> 05:42:43.080 opportunity to tailor-make it I'm going to side with the 05:42:43.080 --> 05:42:44.560 people that live in 05:42:44.560 --> 05:42:49.360 that neighborhood even that aside I'm going to side with 05:42:49.360 --> 05:42:50.439 the majority of the 05:42:50.439 --> 05:42:54.119 people that have spoken against this and I'm going to go 05:42:54.119 --> 05:42:55.560 with my common sense 05:42:55.560 --> 05:42:59.310 that looks at it and says it doesn't fit and I'm going to 05:42:59.310 --> 05:43:00.479 go with the fact 05:43:00.479 --> 05:43:03.639 that I've noticed very little traction and I and I and I 05:43:03.639 --> 05:43:04.720 take a dissenting 05:43:04.720 --> 05:43:08.119 opinion to the other property reference on on Frost Street 05:43:08.119 --> 05:43:09.159 they didn't want to 05:43:09.159 --> 05:43:13.169 match the parking requirements was the at issue there they 05:43:13.169 --> 05:43:14.200 had by right the 05:43:14.200 --> 05:43:18.080 opportunity to do that and and Commissioner Roselle points 05:43:18.080 --> 05:43:18.439 out they 05:43:18.439 --> 05:43:21.150 came back with the exact same plan six months ago and I 05:43:21.150 --> 05:43:22.200 think we're at this 05:43:22.200 --> 05:43:26.669 impasse as well where it does not fit it's I'm looking for 05:43:26.669 --> 05:43:28.200 someone to say that 05:43:28.200 --> 05:43:30.270 they're going to be in an apartment they're going to build 05:43:30.270 --> 05:43:30.840 an apartment it's 05:43:30.840 --> 05:43:33.209 an investment and so you're going to have to pay a premium 05:43:33.209 --> 05:43:34.080 but you're going to 05:43:34.080 --> 05:43:36.959 get a premium back and that is you like you don't like 05:43:36.959 --> 05:43:37.959 those two story 05:43:37.959 --> 05:43:40.080 apartments go by those but you don't want to go by those 05:43:40.080 --> 05:43:40.919 because those are 05:43:40.919 --> 05:43:44.110 costs those cost more in my humble opinion and and so I 05:43:44.110 --> 05:43:45.319 just think where 05:43:45.319 --> 05:43:49.009 we're at a point where I'm not going to ignore the citizens 05:43:49.009 --> 05:43:49.959 that live in a 05:43:49.959 --> 05:43:54.439 district for the betterment of a profit of someone that 05:43:54.439 --> 05:43:55.799 doesn't live in the city 05:43:55.799 --> 05:43:59.630 I'm just not going to I just can't in in my right mind do 05:43:59.630 --> 05:44:00.880 that because that's 05:44:00.880 --> 05:44:04.340 that's that's not right and so just as much as you point 05:44:04.340 --> 05:44:05.560 out that we had an 05:44:05.560 --> 05:44:12.709 opportunity to make an adjustment I'm so excited that we 05:44:12.709 --> 05:44:14.400 send a clearer message 05:44:14.400 --> 05:44:17.080 in my humble opinion that when I get a narrative that says 05:44:17.080 --> 05:44:18.080 either this or that 05:44:18.080 --> 05:44:22.000 I'm not going to respond well to that and that's just and 05:44:22.000 --> 05:44:23.759 and and that's that 05:44:23.759 --> 05:44:26.720 may be that may be something that I need to work on but 05:44:26.720 --> 05:44:28.240 that's where I stand and 05:44:28.240 --> 05:44:31.639 I and I feel supported in that and that we had citizen 05:44:31.639 --> 05:44:34.319 comments that picked up 05:44:34.319 --> 05:44:37.580 on the same thing so I didn't stand alone in my perception 05:44:37.580 --> 05:44:38.599 of reading that 05:44:38.599 --> 05:44:44.060 document so I look forward to this and I think it it I don 05:44:44.060 --> 05:44:45.279 't look at as an 05:44:45.279 --> 05:44:48.110 opportunity missed on our end I think it is consistent with 05:44:48.110 --> 05:44:48.959 how we approach 05:44:48.959 --> 05:44:54.689 things and and I think it is encouraging Commissioner Ose 05:44:54.689 --> 05:44:57.240 llo thank you chair so I 05:44:57.240 --> 05:45:00.909 just as I'm trying to think through what the vote of denial 05:45:00.909 --> 05:45:02.639 that we just had the 05:45:02.639 --> 05:45:06.520 implications of it and now this vote means and it's coming 05:45:06.520 --> 05:45:07.479 to they could 05:45:07.479 --> 05:45:11.340 start after plats get done to build three acres at 45 feet 05:45:11.340 --> 05:45:12.159 and what the 05:45:12.159 --> 05:45:16.840 chair put forth was let's let him build 48 feet and let's 05:45:16.840 --> 05:45:18.080 let a fifth story be 05:45:18.080 --> 05:45:22.779 allowed with a setback so it's not even that visual from a 05:45:22.779 --> 05:45:24.439 walking area yet it 05:45:24.439 --> 05:45:27.349 seems like the Commission by voting a denial to this is not 05:45:27.349 --> 05:45:28.439 okay with a setback 05:45:28.439 --> 05:45:32.299 for a fifth story but we are okay in them building 60 feet 05:45:32.299 --> 05:45:34.319 70 feet 80 feet 90 05:45:34.319 --> 05:45:39.220 feet 100 feet on the property so it doesn't compute fully 05:45:39.220 --> 05:45:40.919 with a motion to 05:45:40.919 --> 05:45:44.159 say we're gonna limit perimeters at 48 feet we're gonna 05:45:44.159 --> 05:45:45.240 force them to set back a 05:45:45.240 --> 05:45:48.869 fifth story so it's really hard to see that's not okay but 05:45:48.869 --> 05:45:49.639 the Commission is 05:45:49.639 --> 05:45:54.279 perfectly fine saying 45 feet on the dr2 perfect and we're 05:45:54.279 --> 05:45:55.080 okay with putting a 05:45:55.080 --> 05:45:59.319 hundred feet on the DCG it just doesn't seem to make sense 05:45:59.319 --> 05:45:59.919 and I feel like the 05:45:59.919 --> 05:46:03.299 chair put forth the motion that was a reasonable compromise 05:46:03.299 --> 05:46:04.319 to have some kind 05:46:04.319 --> 05:46:07.259 of control over the cap of this project because in all 05:46:07.259 --> 05:46:08.639 honesty they might not 05:46:08.639 --> 05:46:10.560 build a hundred stories maybe they don't want that in 05:46:10.560 --> 05:46:12.159 portfolio but why wouldn't 05:46:12.159 --> 05:46:14.900 they build 60 70 feet they can make that probably look 05:46:14.900 --> 05:46:16.200 pretty for their portfolio 05:46:16.200 --> 05:46:19.360 and a denial tonight would give them incentive to even 05:46:19.360 --> 05:46:20.560 start that process 05:46:20.560 --> 05:46:23.119 even sooner and additionally we've talked about the 05:46:23.119 --> 05:46:23.919 neighbors coming out and I 05:46:23.919 --> 05:46:26.450 appreciate them taking time to come out but we had one 05:46:26.450 --> 05:46:27.740 individual from county 05:46:27.740 --> 05:46:31.319 property speak we had one individual from Misty wood lane 05:46:31.319 --> 05:46:32.439 which is several 05:46:32.439 --> 05:46:36.790 miles away the closest I can see was on Congress Street in 05:46:36.790 --> 05:46:39.299 opposition but no one 05:46:39.299 --> 05:46:41.990 from that block opposed tonight no one from the 200 feet 05:46:41.990 --> 05:46:42.959 came out tonight and 05:46:42.959 --> 05:46:47.069 so yes there has been vocal opposition from it but it's 05:46:47.069 --> 05:46:48.720 been from Oak Street 05:46:48.720 --> 05:46:51.299 that come out for any project near campus because of 05:46:51.299 --> 05:46:52.400 traffic concerns and 05:46:52.400 --> 05:46:55.310 so I want to validate individuals coming out and speaking 05:46:55.310 --> 05:46:56.520 tonight but I also want 05:46:56.520 --> 05:46:58.439 to understand that the proximity to this that has been 05:46:58.439 --> 05:46:59.720 spoken about tonight hasn't 05:46:59.720 --> 05:47:04.319 really been there and so I'm kind of astonished by the 05:47:04.319 --> 05:47:05.360 rationalization of 05:47:05.360 --> 05:47:10.080 voting to deny this when it produces an outcome that's less 05:47:10.080 --> 05:47:11.240 controlled than what 05:47:11.240 --> 05:47:16.240 was just voted against and so I'm certainly voting to not 05:47:16.240 --> 05:47:17.479 approve a denial 05:47:17.479 --> 05:47:21.400 of this based on my desire to have some control over the 05:47:21.400 --> 05:47:24.040 project being presented 05:47:24.040 --> 05:47:28.560 Commissioner Ellis thank you chair all I'll what I'd like 05:47:28.560 --> 05:47:29.180 to add to that 05:47:29.180 --> 05:47:33.729 Commissioner Oselle is that what was put forth before us 05:47:33.729 --> 05:47:35.560 with with the overlay 05:47:35.560 --> 05:47:38.909 didn't address the concern of density and what this project 05:47:38.909 --> 05:47:40.040 brings to the area 05:47:40.040 --> 05:47:43.259 it just it just talked about the aesthetics which is one 05:47:43.259 --> 05:47:44.680 thing but density 05:47:44.680 --> 05:47:47.840 was a huge problem the traffic the amount of people that's 05:47:47.840 --> 05:47:48.599 going to bring 05:47:48.599 --> 05:47:51.450 it that area and what it's going to do to the rest of the 05:47:51.450 --> 05:47:52.759 area and then also to 05:47:52.759 --> 05:47:56.569 address the 200 and 500 feet decisions that we make affect 05:47:56.569 --> 05:47:57.360 more than that in 05:47:57.360 --> 05:48:00.279 the city and just because we didn't get those people here 05:48:00.279 --> 05:48:01.360 who talked about it 05:48:01.360 --> 05:48:03.909 the people who did come out they do have a right because 05:48:03.909 --> 05:48:05.000 that will affect them 05:48:05.000 --> 05:48:09.639 and how we all travel through that area I absolutely agree 05:48:09.639 --> 05:48:10.880 it was just 05:48:10.880 --> 05:48:13.250 mentioned on the Commission that neighbors have come out to 05:48:13.250 --> 05:48:13.619 speak in 05:48:13.619 --> 05:48:16.040 opposition and I think it's worth contextualizing who those 05:48:16.040 --> 05:48:17.400 neighbors are 05:48:17.400 --> 05:48:22.139 and again to the point I feel I've already made is in terms 05:48:22.139 --> 05:48:23.639 of density we 05:48:23.639 --> 05:48:26.799 deny this we've provided them ability to be more dense than 05:48:26.799 --> 05:48:27.240 it seems like 05:48:27.240 --> 05:48:30.849 you desire because they can go higher up and produce more 05:48:30.849 --> 05:48:32.080 beds more units more 05:48:32.080 --> 05:48:36.159 density and further I charged Earl and I hate to keep 05:48:36.159 --> 05:48:37.200 bringing him out by name I 05:48:37.200 --> 05:48:40.360 apologize but there needs to be some infrastructure in 05:48:40.360 --> 05:48:42.000 there I agree that the 05:48:42.000 --> 05:48:44.560 traffic and roads I 100% agree with you that needs to be 05:48:44.560 --> 05:48:46.439 addressed but I don't 05:48:46.439 --> 05:48:51.159 know if that's cause to change from a 48 foot cap or 05:48:51.159 --> 05:48:56.240 letting them build 100 feet 05:48:57.799 --> 05:49:03.209 any other comments or Commissioner Tyler thank you chair so 05:49:03.209 --> 05:49:05.240 to address your 05:49:05.240 --> 05:49:09.669 concerns Commissioner Rozelle regarding regarding trying to 05:49:09.669 --> 05:49:11.000 work out a solution 05:49:11.000 --> 05:49:15.319 here the solution that that was proposed in the overlay is 05:49:15.319 --> 05:49:17.040 exactly the thing that 05:49:17.040 --> 05:49:20.990 the neighborhood did not want it's exactly that no we have 05:49:20.990 --> 05:49:22.119 gotten letters 05:49:22.119 --> 05:49:25.279 from property owners directly across the street they were 05:49:25.279 --> 05:49:26.400 in our last meeting and 05:49:26.400 --> 05:49:31.599 I'm sure they're somewhere in the record and this this 70% 05:49:31.599 --> 05:49:33.959 at 58 feet and 15% at 05:49:33.959 --> 05:49:39.159 48 feet and 15% at 70 feet that that isn't any protection 05:49:39.159 --> 05:49:40.560 that's that's 05:49:40.560 --> 05:49:45.119 exactly what the plan is so so there isn't any there isn't 05:49:45.119 --> 05:49:46.939 any like benefit 05:49:46.939 --> 05:49:51.369 from to the neighborhood from that overlay which is exactly 05:49:51.369 --> 05:49:52.040 what the 05:49:52.040 --> 05:49:54.520 developer said they were going to build and drew the 05:49:54.520 --> 05:49:55.799 picture of they're also 05:49:55.799 --> 05:50:00.229 already limited by the the proximity the residential 05:50:00.229 --> 05:50:02.400 proximity rule so they can't 05:50:02.400 --> 05:50:05.110 even start at 48 feet they have to start at 46 feet 10 feet 05:50:05.110 --> 05:50:06.000 off the property line 05:50:06.000 --> 05:50:11.340 so even though it was a world our overlay is weaker than 05:50:11.340 --> 05:50:13.680 our laws and then 05:50:13.680 --> 05:50:17.279 to go to a hundred feet tall which they could do they start 05:50:17.279 --> 05:50:19.560 running into fire 05:50:19.560 --> 05:50:22.869 protection issues when they get above about 60 feet so the 05:50:22.869 --> 05:50:24.360 feasibility of them 05:50:24.360 --> 05:50:28.630 building a hundred foot tower to punish the neighborhood or 05:50:28.630 --> 05:50:29.799 to make their profit 05:50:29.799 --> 05:50:35.869 is is pretty unlikely so I I wish we could have crafted an 05:50:35.869 --> 05:50:37.040 overlay that that 05:50:37.040 --> 05:50:40.200 addressed the concerns of context and size and scale but if 05:50:40.200 --> 05:50:41.479 you're across the 05:50:41.479 --> 05:50:45.259 street or you're a hundred feet down scripture that 70 foot 05:50:45.259 --> 05:50:46.080 portion of the 05:50:46.080 --> 05:50:49.240 building is going to be very visible it's going to be lo 05:50:49.240 --> 05:50:50.159 oming above the 05:50:50.159 --> 05:50:55.490 street so it we're not the 70 foot overlay with the 50 foot 05:50:55.490 --> 05:50:56.279 step down so 05:50:56.279 --> 05:51:01.279 forth isn't protecting anything I think maybe something 05:51:01.279 --> 05:51:02.599 like a 45 foot flat 05:51:02.599 --> 05:51:07.119 overlay might be amenable to the neighborhood at the edge 05:51:07.119 --> 05:51:07.840 like just 05:51:07.840 --> 05:51:10.560 barely acceptable but that would absolutely not be 05:51:10.560 --> 05:51:11.680 acceptable to the 05:51:11.680 --> 05:51:13.799 developer and if we try to do something like that at 05:51:13.799 --> 05:51:15.040 midnight you know on a 05:51:15.040 --> 05:51:20.200 Wednesday night it's we may as well just not do anything 05:51:20.200 --> 05:51:22.520 and let something get 05:51:22.520 --> 05:51:24.939 worked out on the way to City Council when they have time 05:51:24.939 --> 05:51:25.799 to do research and 05:51:25.799 --> 05:51:29.919 do the math and figure out exactly what compromise they can 05:51:29.919 --> 05:51:31.400 reach and bring it 05:51:31.400 --> 05:51:36.240 forth to the actual deciders on this at City Council that's 05:51:36.240 --> 05:51:37.279 why I think a 05:51:37.279 --> 05:51:43.349 denial now is better than a really kind of hastily crafted 05:51:43.349 --> 05:51:45.000 overlay I appreciate 05:51:45.000 --> 05:51:49.000 thank you that information correct me if I'm wrong it's my 05:51:49.000 --> 05:51:49.560 understanding that 05:51:49.560 --> 05:51:51.950 this zoning request is not tied to a site plan so the 05:51:51.950 --> 05:51:53.240 overlay would actually 05:51:53.240 --> 05:52:00.159 protect what gets built. Commissioner Tyler. That is true 05:52:00.159 --> 05:52:02.040 but it it doesn't 05:52:02.040 --> 05:52:04.830 give any benefit to the neighborhood over the proposal in 05:52:04.830 --> 05:52:05.919 fact it actually 05:52:05.919 --> 05:52:08.590 gives them a little wiggle room which you know we generally 05:52:08.590 --> 05:52:09.279 do in overlays 05:52:09.279 --> 05:52:13.419 because we don't want to whenever we reach a negotiated 05:52:13.419 --> 05:52:14.799 solution we don't 05:52:14.799 --> 05:52:18.139 want to accidentally have something that was one foot too 05:52:18.139 --> 05:52:19.279 low and just kills a 05:52:19.279 --> 05:52:21.650 project that we have negotiated to the end but we haven't 05:52:21.650 --> 05:52:22.639 negotiated anything 05:52:22.639 --> 05:52:25.799 here we've basically designed an overlay that lets them do 05:52:25.799 --> 05:52:27.639 exactly what they want 05:52:27.639 --> 05:52:30.830 I'm gonna make a final comment and then we're gonna call 05:52:30.830 --> 05:52:31.639 for a vote and get on 05:52:31.639 --> 05:52:35.680 to our next item I don't think it was exactly what they 05:52:35.680 --> 05:52:36.400 wanted I think they 05:52:36.400 --> 05:52:39.049 came and did a neighborhood meeting with a project that 05:52:39.049 --> 05:52:40.919 they built in Waco they 05:52:40.919 --> 05:52:44.240 did this project that was farther setbacks from the street 05:52:44.240 --> 05:52:44.959 they did it 05:52:44.959 --> 05:52:47.909 with relief with setbacks that were as far as 15-60 feet 05:52:47.909 --> 05:52:48.959 from the back of the curb 05:52:48.959 --> 05:52:52.409 versus right up on the curb so I don't think it's correct 05:52:52.409 --> 05:52:53.319 to sit here and say 05:52:53.319 --> 05:52:55.590 that they've made no compromise they didn't listen to the 05:52:55.590 --> 05:52:56.479 neighborhood they 05:52:56.479 --> 05:52:58.790 didn't respond and they just built what they did I saw a 05:52:58.790 --> 05:53:00.360 very different building 05:53:00.360 --> 05:53:05.819 facade what they showed versus what they originally showed 05:53:05.819 --> 05:53:06.799 at the neighborhood 05:53:06.799 --> 05:53:09.560 meetings the second final thing I will say is that the 05:53:09.560 --> 05:53:10.159 property that we're 05:53:10.159 --> 05:53:13.119 talking about this the historic and all this stuff is a 05:53:13.119 --> 05:53:14.400 vacant assisted living 05:53:14.400 --> 05:53:17.560 center that has been vacant for many years a vacant 05:53:17.560 --> 05:53:19.240 pharmacy building on the 05:53:19.240 --> 05:53:23.799 corner there are old apartments all around it and they're 05:53:23.799 --> 05:53:24.159 talking about 05:53:24.159 --> 05:53:26.240 building a building that's probably at least a forty 05:53:26.240 --> 05:53:27.400 million dollar building in 05:53:27.400 --> 05:53:30.560 our city they chose to come build it here they're gonna pay 05:53:30.560 --> 05:53:31.319 taxes on it 05:53:31.319 --> 05:53:34.169 they're gonna pay impact fees on it they're gonna pay 05:53:34.169 --> 05:53:35.599 traffic impact fees so 05:53:35.599 --> 05:53:38.099 go to support all the roads that people say we need to get 05:53:38.099 --> 05:53:39.119 the roads fixed and 05:53:39.119 --> 05:53:42.840 people keep bringing projects to our city like this and 05:53:42.840 --> 05:53:44.240 this commission says 05:53:44.240 --> 05:53:48.099 no and then we turn around and say we don't have any money 05:53:48.099 --> 05:53:48.759 to fix the streets 05:53:48.759 --> 05:53:51.430 we don't have any money to do this and these are the people 05:53:51.430 --> 05:53:52.200 that write the 05:53:52.200 --> 05:53:55.150 checks to fix that stuff and so with that I'm gonna make 05:53:55.150 --> 05:53:56.080 that's my final 05:53:56.080 --> 05:53:58.680 comment I don't agree with the motion we're making I'm 05:53:58.680 --> 05:53:59.439 gonna call for a vote 05:53:59.439 --> 05:54:02.159 on it and then it can move on to City Council so with that 05:54:02.159 --> 05:54:03.119 I'm gonna call for a 05:54:03.119 --> 05:54:07.450 vote on the board and we'll move forward and get on to the 05:54:07.450 --> 05:54:08.840 next people here 05:54:09.119 --> 05:54:28.880 the motion to deny carries five to two 05:54:39.119 --> 05:54:51.779 just a second I have a request from a commissioner to the 05:54:51.779 --> 05:54:52.479 applicant and then 05:54:52.479 --> 05:54:55.400 we're gonna move on to our next item if you could bring 05:54:55.400 --> 05:54:56.759 this project on Stella 05:54:56.759 --> 05:55:00.159 Street or Eagle there wouldn't be any overlays there wouldn 05:55:00.159 --> 05:55:00.360 't be any 05:55:00.360 --> 05:55:03.200 resistance and I know that you're challenged by where the 05:55:03.200 --> 05:55:03.840 what land is 05:55:03.840 --> 05:55:07.409 available for sale right now but this isn't we don't want 05:55:07.409 --> 05:55:08.520 business in Denton 05:55:08.520 --> 05:55:16.259 this is not on that's not in this exact location I have got 05:55:16.259 --> 05:55:19.000 a conflict of 05:55:19.000 --> 05:55:23.840 interest in regards to item 5a I own property across the 05:55:23.840 --> 05:55:24.959 street or an owner 05:55:24.959 --> 05:55:28.119 ownership interest in and real property across the street 05:55:28.119 --> 05:55:28.919 so at this time I'm 05:55:28.919 --> 05:55:31.740 going to recuse myself for a conflict of interest on this 05:55:31.740 --> 05:55:32.959 item and I'm going to 05:55:32.959 --> 05:55:37.150 turn the meeting over to vice-chair Devin Taylor for like 05:55:37.150 --> 05:55:38.599 this item and also 05:55:38.599 --> 05:55:46.959 thank you all thank you chair 05:55:49.360 --> 05:55:56.299 so our next agenda item is listed as item 5a case number fr 05:55:56.299 --> 05:56:00.040 16 - 0023 a hold a 05:56:00.040 --> 05:56:02.669 public hearing and consider a request by Stephen and Karen 05:56:02.669 --> 05:56:03.680 Hale for approval of a 05:56:03.680 --> 05:56:07.400 final replant of lots one and two block B of Hale Estates 05:56:07.400 --> 05:56:08.439 do we have a 05:56:08.439 --> 05:56:12.610 presentation on this yes absolutely we have Haley who can 05:56:12.610 --> 05:56:13.479 go through the 05:56:13.479 --> 05:56:17.740 proposed replant the subdivision of a lot into two lots of 05:56:17.740 --> 05:56:19.599 record 05:56:30.680 --> 05:56:34.209 good evening so this is a fr 1623 it's a replant of the H 05:56:34.209 --> 05:56:39.680 ale Estates lot one and 05:56:39.680 --> 05:56:43.569 two of block B this was originally plotted as part of the 05:56:43.569 --> 05:56:44.400 Montecito 05:56:44.400 --> 05:56:48.909 subdivision believe it was originally lot 13 of block B and 05:56:48.909 --> 05:56:50.200 so the request is 05:56:50.200 --> 05:56:50.200 to subdivide this into two residential lots the zoning for 05:56:50.200 --> 05:56:55.720 the properties in our 05:56:55.720 --> 05:57:01.099 two and with this a lot two is encumbered by a significant 05:57:01.099 --> 05:57:01.560 amount of 05:57:01.560 --> 05:57:04.979 drainage easements floodplain there's some ESA on the 05:57:04.979 --> 05:57:07.000 property as well that is 05:57:07.000 --> 05:57:11.139 all encompassed in the easements that you see here and 05:57:11.139 --> 05:57:12.639 there any other 05:57:12.639 --> 05:57:16.240 questions I can answer those at this time 05:57:20.680 --> 05:57:26.750 I don't see any questions for staff would the applicant 05:57:26.750 --> 05:57:28.119 like to present 05:57:39.680 --> 05:57:41.939 thank you commissioners and thank y'all for staying up here 05:57:41.939 --> 05:57:44.119 late working with 05:57:44.119 --> 05:57:47.979 us on this thing we were here a couple of weeks ago I 05:57:47.979 --> 05:57:48.799 thought I would just 05:57:48.799 --> 05:57:51.029 write out my remarks this time so I can go a lot quicker 05:57:51.029 --> 05:57:52.000 instead of him and and 05:57:52.000 --> 05:57:54.119 hauling around I could did last time and we can get through 05:57:54.119 --> 05:57:54.759 this thing if you 05:57:54.759 --> 05:57:58.000 just so I apologize for just reading it but when we ended 05:57:58.000 --> 05:57:59.360 our session two weeks 05:57:59.360 --> 05:58:02.380 ago I thought we were at a point where there were no 05:58:02.380 --> 05:58:04.000 technical challenges to 05:58:04.000 --> 05:58:07.159 our application but as some of my neighbors had appeared 05:58:07.159 --> 05:58:08.080 and challenged on 05:58:08.080 --> 05:58:11.240 other grounds we agreed to table the matter until tonight 05:58:11.240 --> 05:58:12.639 as I explained at 05:58:12.639 --> 05:58:16.209 the last meeting we were wanting to subdivide our three and 05:58:16.209 --> 05:58:17.639 a half acres 05:58:17.639 --> 05:58:23.709 into two lots so we can sell the lot to the east and being 05:58:23.709 --> 05:58:25.159 lot to to our to our 05:58:25.159 --> 05:58:30.669 neighbor Kevin Nelms who lives across from us on El Paso 05:58:30.669 --> 05:58:32.159 one of the other 05:58:32.159 --> 05:58:35.909 reasons I want to sell to Kevin is because he asked me a 05:58:35.909 --> 05:58:37.080 long time ago if 05:58:37.080 --> 05:58:39.599 I ever wanted to sell the property to give him right of 05:58:39.599 --> 05:58:40.880 first refusal which I 05:58:40.880 --> 05:58:44.139 did in this case and that's and that's why I'm honoring 05:58:44.139 --> 05:58:46.180 that most of a lot too 05:58:46.180 --> 05:58:49.990 is in is in a pond stream bed and damn and all of a lot too 05:58:49.990 --> 05:58:51.560 has been designated 05:58:51.560 --> 05:58:58.119 as floodplain pardon me in the course of this replatting 05:58:58.119 --> 05:58:59.759 Kevin and his family 05:58:59.759 --> 05:59:02.720 live in the first house downstream from the pond as it 05:59:02.720 --> 05:59:04.400 flows through the dam and 05:59:04.400 --> 05:59:08.830 as such he has the greatest vested interest of anyone in 05:59:08.830 --> 05:59:09.799 the area in the 05:59:09.799 --> 05:59:12.959 maintenance and stability of the dam as I've tried to 05:59:12.959 --> 05:59:14.520 explain my greatest duty 05:59:14.520 --> 05:59:18.119 is not to the people who live in Montecito I'm sorry as 05:59:18.119 --> 05:59:19.479 they all live 05:59:19.479 --> 05:59:22.909 upstream and will not be adversely affected should the dam 05:59:22.909 --> 05:59:24.319 break my primary 05:59:24.319 --> 05:59:27.319 duty is to those who live downstream and especially to 05:59:27.319 --> 05:59:28.319 those who live in 05:59:28.319 --> 05:59:31.669 Shadowbrook to the Southville sale that's not only my 05:59:31.669 --> 05:59:32.959 opinion but it's also 05:59:32.959 --> 05:59:35.930 the opinion of the TCEQ the Texas Commission on 05:59:35.930 --> 05:59:38.520 Environmental Quality my 05:59:38.520 --> 05:59:41.360 primary concern is with their safety and security and I 05:59:41.360 --> 05:59:42.599 believe Kevin is the most 05:59:42.599 --> 05:59:47.479 reliable person to take on that task at the last hearing 05:59:47.479 --> 05:59:49.200 there were questions as 05:59:49.200 --> 05:59:52.119 to whether subdividing our lot was allowed by the Montecito 05:59:52.119 --> 05:59:52.680 restrictive 05:59:52.680 --> 05:59:56.279 covenants paragraph 8 of the restrictions which deals with 05:59:56.279 --> 05:59:56.959 subdividing 05:59:56.959 --> 06:00:02.020 of lots requires the replatted lot have a minimum area of 06:00:02.020 --> 06:00:04.139 one acre and 150 feet 06:00:04.139 --> 06:00:09.700 of frontage and our replat meets those requirements looking 06:00:09.700 --> 06:00:10.720 at the plate of 06:00:10.720 --> 06:00:14.310 Montecito it appears that out of the 60 odd lots there are 06:00:14.310 --> 06:00:15.439 only about five or six 06:00:15.439 --> 06:00:18.909 lots that would be able to subdivide within these 06:00:18.909 --> 06:00:21.080 restrictions those being 06:00:21.080 --> 06:00:25.759 those lots at the north and the south ends of Montecito one 06:00:25.759 --> 06:00:27.279 another point on 06:00:27.279 --> 06:00:34.150 the as to what constitutes frontage our house fronts on 06:00:34.150 --> 06:00:36.400 Santa Monica this house 06:00:36.400 --> 06:00:42.470 not this house this property would front on El Paseo I was 06:00:42.470 --> 06:00:44.080 unsure about that and 06:00:44.080 --> 06:00:46.650 so I contacted a civil engineer who handles these kind of 06:00:46.650 --> 06:00:47.439 matters all the 06:00:47.439 --> 06:00:51.340 time and he assured me that frontage means only to the 06:00:51.340 --> 06:00:53.080 nearest public road 06:00:53.080 --> 06:00:58.400 roadway or street and also fronting to monitor fronting to 06:00:58.400 --> 06:00:59.959 El Paseo El Paseo 06:00:59.959 --> 06:01:03.950 this portion of El Paseo that's at the south end of Santa 06:01:03.950 --> 06:01:05.479 Monica pardon me at 06:01:05.479 --> 06:01:11.549 south end of the Montecito addition was dedicated what is a 06:01:11.549 --> 06:01:12.279 dedicated street 06:01:12.279 --> 06:01:19.430 within the Montecito dedication I realized that this matter 06:01:19.430 --> 06:01:21.080 of restrictive 06:01:21.080 --> 06:01:23.659 covenants is not within this board's purview but I want the 06:01:23.659 --> 06:01:24.360 board to know 06:01:24.360 --> 06:01:27.909 that I did not disregard such matters in filing for this 06:01:27.909 --> 06:01:29.200 replat I consulted with 06:01:29.200 --> 06:01:32.360 an engineer as well as our survey before filing our 06:01:32.360 --> 06:01:34.680 application also since our 06:01:34.680 --> 06:01:37.459 last hearing I did meet with two of my neighbors who were 06:01:37.459 --> 06:01:38.479 back to who who back 06:01:38.479 --> 06:01:43.229 to the pond as we had a very frank discussion as they say 06:01:43.229 --> 06:01:44.000 in political 06:01:44.000 --> 06:01:48.819 circles I as I explained to them it is my belief that Kevin 06:01:48.819 --> 06:01:49.680 more so than any 06:01:49.680 --> 06:01:53.430 other owner in the area is the best person to take care of 06:01:53.430 --> 06:01:54.639 this property to 06:01:54.639 --> 06:02:00.770 ensure the safety of those downstream many of those who are 06:02:00.770 --> 06:02:03.279 here tonight who 06:02:03.279 --> 06:02:05.959 are in opposition to our application did I know Kevin Kevin 06:02:05.959 --> 06:02:06.880 is here and Kevin's 06:02:06.880 --> 06:02:10.209 going to speak by the way I suggest that when they see him 06:02:10.209 --> 06:02:11.080 and his crews out 06:02:11.080 --> 06:02:14.240 there out there working they'd be good neighbors and stop 06:02:14.240 --> 06:02:15.080 an offer to lend a 06:02:15.080 --> 06:02:19.250 hand again it's my understanding that our application is 06:02:19.250 --> 06:02:20.639 mature requirements so 06:02:20.639 --> 06:02:23.490 I asked the board to prove our application do you have any 06:02:23.490 --> 06:02:24.360 questions of 06:02:24.360 --> 06:02:29.759 me at this time it's getting late thank you very much 06:02:29.759 --> 06:02:37.959 questions thank you and this is a public hearing if anybody 06:02:37.959 --> 06:02:40.599 would like to speak 06:02:40.599 --> 06:02:45.069 this is a public hearing if anybody I will open the public 06:02:45.069 --> 06:02:46.400 hearing at this 06:02:46.400 --> 06:02:49.220 time if anybody would like to speak please fill out a blue 06:02:49.220 --> 06:02:49.840 card I have 06:02:49.840 --> 06:02:56.270 several cards here at this time I will call on Kevin Nelms 06:02:56.270 --> 06:02:59.360 to speak please state 06:02:59.360 --> 06:03:02.799 your name and address when you reach the podium 06:03:03.479 --> 06:03:11.750 I'm Kevin Nelms I live at 3403 Shadowbrook Court in Denton 06:03:11.750 --> 06:03:12.680 across 06:03:12.680 --> 06:03:19.830 street from Steve and I met with a few of the neighbors in 06:03:19.830 --> 06:03:20.319 the last few days 06:03:20.319 --> 06:03:24.919 and some of them were concerned that I wanted to tear the 06:03:24.919 --> 06:03:26.319 dam down which I 06:03:26.319 --> 06:03:34.590 don't I'd like to fix the dam they it's on a beautiful lake 06:03:34.590 --> 06:03:37.240 and all the lots 06:03:37.240 --> 06:03:40.979 are beautiful except one it's the one right across the 06:03:40.979 --> 06:03:42.479 street from me that I 06:03:42.479 --> 06:03:45.700 look out my window when I eat breakfast and I've got some 06:03:45.700 --> 06:03:47.000 pictures if you'd like 06:03:47.000 --> 06:04:00.919 to look there's a first one that's the dam and these are 06:04:00.919 --> 06:04:02.400 these are logs that 06:04:02.400 --> 06:04:04.610 float downstream if you look at the house in the back I 06:04:04.610 --> 06:04:05.400 talked that lady 06:04:05.400 --> 06:04:10.909 last night and she's she indicated she was for me getting 06:04:10.909 --> 06:04:12.520 this place cleaned up 06:04:12.520 --> 06:04:15.939 all the other houses are real nice but all the junks got to 06:04:15.939 --> 06:04:16.599 go out somewhere 06:04:16.599 --> 06:04:25.040 and it all flows over there and then this is on the other 06:04:25.040 --> 06:04:28.200 side of the dam 06:04:29.040 --> 06:04:34.000 it's kind of a swamp area for mosquitoes it's right across 06:04:34.000 --> 06:04:37.639 from my house here's 06:04:37.639 --> 06:04:47.680 another picture of the dam getting jammed up this is the 06:04:47.680 --> 06:04:50.880 there's a drainage 06:04:50.880 --> 06:04:54.069 thing that goes underneath the street to right behind my 06:04:54.069 --> 06:04:55.840 house that's it if you 06:04:55.840 --> 06:05:00.040 notice there's logs here as Steve said he's seen it where 06:05:00.040 --> 06:05:00.759 it's all the way up 06:05:00.759 --> 06:05:06.889 to like this area with logs which would flood over the 06:05:06.889 --> 06:05:09.479 street the dam has about a 06:05:09.479 --> 06:05:13.000 four inch crack there's my tennis shoe there but the four 06:05:13.000 --> 06:05:13.919 inch crack down here 06:05:13.919 --> 06:05:17.450 and I'm kind of taking a picture straight down on it that 06:05:17.450 --> 06:05:20.639 needs repaired 06:05:20.639 --> 06:05:28.599 all the trees along the the lake there look like that and 06:05:28.599 --> 06:05:31.639 then there's a bunch 06:05:31.639 --> 06:05:36.720 of concrete thrown on the other side of the dam that needs 06:05:36.720 --> 06:05:39.520 cleaned up and covered 06:05:39.520 --> 06:05:44.639 with gravel and concrete there's another one of the trees 06:05:44.639 --> 06:05:48.319 on the on the edge of 06:05:48.319 --> 06:05:53.880 the lake on the property and then another one and then this 06:05:53.880 --> 06:05:55.080 is looking back 06:05:55.080 --> 06:06:02.599 from my my window of my house to all these trees that are 06:06:02.599 --> 06:06:04.360 dead and all the 06:06:04.360 --> 06:06:08.310 piles of things which I would like to clean up because it 06:06:08.310 --> 06:06:09.680 looks nice and 06:06:09.680 --> 06:06:15.750 there's some more dead trees on the property more dead 06:06:15.750 --> 06:06:17.040 trees on the property 06:06:17.040 --> 06:06:26.020 and here's another picture of this is the basic main part 06:06:26.020 --> 06:06:27.240 of the property 06:06:27.240 --> 06:06:32.569 which I could really clean up and make look nice I live on 06:06:32.569 --> 06:06:34.119 a basically a zero 06:06:34.119 --> 06:06:40.220 lot line house and I have a driveway that enters from the 06:06:40.220 --> 06:06:41.479 rear I have a front 06:06:41.479 --> 06:06:46.819 yard but my son kind of has nowhere to play so this would 06:06:46.819 --> 06:06:48.360 give an area we could 06:06:48.360 --> 06:06:51.040 put a basketball court or something over here I have no 06:06:51.040 --> 06:06:53.080 intention of building 06:06:53.080 --> 06:06:56.720 anything just basically clean it up make it look nice at my 06:06:56.720 --> 06:06:59.759 expense and from the 06:06:59.759 --> 06:07:02.720 discussion tonight maybe the city doesn't have enough money 06:07:02.720 --> 06:07:04.479 to fix up the 06:07:04.479 --> 06:07:07.860 dam and I do so and I've got the equipment and I've got the 06:07:07.860 --> 06:07:08.680 people to do 06:07:08.680 --> 06:07:13.000 it and thank you very much for your consideration we do 06:07:13.000 --> 06:07:14.439 have one question 06:07:14.439 --> 06:07:19.520 Commissioner Beck thank you by sure thank you sir Kevin for 06:07:19.520 --> 06:07:20.040 coming down and 06:07:20.040 --> 06:07:23.569 speaking so if I understand you right you have no intention 06:07:23.569 --> 06:07:24.159 of letting this 06:07:24.159 --> 06:07:29.430 damn deteriorate and any repairs that it would take to keep 06:07:29.430 --> 06:07:31.360 it intact will come 06:07:31.360 --> 06:07:34.880 out of your own pocket is that correct that's correct okay 06:07:34.880 --> 06:07:35.919 have you any offers 06:07:35.919 --> 06:07:40.709 from any of the neighbors to help you with this now I had I 06:07:40.709 --> 06:07:42.880 had two neighbors 06:07:42.880 --> 06:07:48.009 come out come by the lady I showed you her house I think 06:07:48.009 --> 06:07:50.799 she came by last night 06:07:50.799 --> 06:07:54.009 and then the gentleman next door that lives you know not on 06:07:54.009 --> 06:07:54.919 the lake he came 06:07:54.919 --> 06:08:03.240 by and then I met Peter I met Peter tonight and he's he 06:08:03.240 --> 06:08:04.400 seems to be in 06:08:04.400 --> 06:08:07.180 agreement and of course Steve and everybody so that's a 06:08:07.180 --> 06:08:08.520 start pardon me 06:08:08.520 --> 06:08:12.799 that's a start then that's a start you've got yeah some 06:08:12.799 --> 06:08:13.479 people on your side 06:08:13.479 --> 06:08:21.959 yeah okay every I've lived in it since 92 and I took a 50- 06:08:21.959 --> 06:08:23.599 acre lot that was 06:08:23.599 --> 06:08:27.290 really terrible is I realized my Hill roads not the nicest 06:08:27.290 --> 06:08:28.439 looking place in 06:08:28.439 --> 06:08:31.729 the world but this place was really a showplace when I got 06:08:31.729 --> 06:08:32.919 done with it and 06:08:32.919 --> 06:08:37.209 my house is well kept and I have another house that I ran 06:08:37.209 --> 06:08:39.400 out over on the north 06:08:39.400 --> 06:08:45.599 side of town and I keep it well and I've got other houses 06:08:45.599 --> 06:08:47.119 in other countries and 06:08:47.119 --> 06:08:50.840 I keep them well so I just like something nice that's all 06:08:50.840 --> 06:08:51.599 all right thank 06:08:51.599 --> 06:08:55.840 you sir okay any other questions no thank you okay thank 06:08:55.840 --> 06:08:57.840 you our next speaker 06:08:57.840 --> 06:09:03.880 is Douglas Ebersole to be followed by John Wright 06:09:14.880 --> 06:09:19.169 I'd like to just clarify a couple of things that I heard in 06:09:19.169 --> 06:09:22.639 the work session 06:09:22.639 --> 06:09:29.080 about the covenants the covenant has an amendment covenants 06:09:29.080 --> 06:09:29.959 the restrictions 06:09:29.959 --> 06:09:34.959 were written in 1965 when Bob Nichols developed this place 06:09:34.959 --> 06:09:41.959 and this along here 06:09:41.959 --> 06:09:47.340 this line is block a all those lots here and the rest of 06:09:47.340 --> 06:09:48.680 this over here is block 06:09:48.680 --> 06:09:55.830 B and C D&E the amendment was written in 1966 and it was 06:09:55.830 --> 06:09:58.119 clarified item number 06:09:58.119 --> 06:10:04.439 eight and what it says it says except for lots and block a 06:10:04.439 --> 06:10:04.919 except for all 06:10:04.919 --> 06:10:13.680 these lots here no lot shall be resubdivided into no lot 06:10:13.680 --> 06:10:14.119 sub is 06:10:14.119 --> 06:10:17.889 resubdivided into that's old legal language for just subd 06:10:17.889 --> 06:10:19.200 ivided the neck and 06:10:19.200 --> 06:10:22.770 the next restriction says it continues it says nor shall 06:10:22.770 --> 06:10:24.319 any dwelling be erected 06:10:24.319 --> 06:10:28.459 or placed on any portion of any lot having a frontage of 06:10:28.459 --> 06:10:30.360 less than 150 feet 06:10:30.360 --> 06:10:34.319 and less than one acre the reason he did that is because 06:10:34.319 --> 06:10:37.080 these lots originally 06:10:37.080 --> 06:10:41.720 were platted the same size as these over here okay they're 06:10:41.720 --> 06:10:43.159 all the same size you 06:10:43.159 --> 06:10:47.799 can see down here these two lots are still the same size 06:10:47.799 --> 06:10:50.360 but lots across 11 06:10:50.360 --> 06:10:56.430 number 18 what he did is he turned 11 lots into 18 over 06:10:56.430 --> 06:10:57.319 here in other words he 06:10:57.319 --> 06:11:00.639 and you can see right here he halves the size of the loss 06:11:00.639 --> 06:11:02.319 and that was because 06:11:02.319 --> 06:11:06.830 these these were not selling over here and so he had those 06:11:06.830 --> 06:11:08.279 lots almost all of 06:11:08.279 --> 06:11:13.529 them and then that's how he moved the project and those 06:11:13.529 --> 06:11:14.959 sold so this 06:11:14.959 --> 06:11:21.029 restriction except for lots and block a no lot shall be 06:11:21.029 --> 06:11:23.279 subdivided into nor shall 06:11:23.279 --> 06:11:26.599 any dwelling be erected then it continues on after that 06:11:26.599 --> 06:11:28.759 lots and block a may be 06:11:28.759 --> 06:11:31.459 subdivided provided said lot shall have frontage of not 06:11:31.459 --> 06:11:32.959 less than 100 feet and 06:11:32.959 --> 06:11:39.590 25,000 squeak feet an area so that's why he did that he 06:11:39.590 --> 06:11:40.599 wrote that in there so he 06:11:40.599 --> 06:11:44.240 could subdivide those lots but that doesn't apply to Mont 06:11:44.240 --> 06:11:45.639 icello the red to 06:11:45.639 --> 06:11:52.790 block B C D and E that that exception only applies to block 06:11:52.790 --> 06:11:54.619 a so what that 06:11:54.619 --> 06:11:59.450 says is no lots can be subdivided into that and that the 06:11:59.450 --> 06:12:00.479 whole place is 06:12:00.479 --> 06:12:05.000 developed out now and this ignoring our covenants which 06:12:05.000 --> 06:12:06.200 that best a bad 06:12:06.200 --> 06:12:10.080 precedent for subdivision in there when it is against our 06:12:10.080 --> 06:12:11.599 our covenants I've 06:12:11.599 --> 06:12:14.979 heard a lot of talk tonight and previous issues about 06:12:14.979 --> 06:12:17.880 neighborhood integrity about 06:12:17.880 --> 06:12:22.979 character of neighborhoods and there are departments in the 06:12:22.979 --> 06:12:24.000 city that are 06:12:24.000 --> 06:12:27.400 concerned and talked a lot about neighborhood harmony cohes 06:12:27.400 --> 06:12:27.919 iveness 06:12:27.919 --> 06:12:33.990 security and character and safety and beauty and what's 06:12:33.990 --> 06:12:35.159 happened to Monticello 06:12:35.159 --> 06:12:41.229 whereas there are no regard for 52 year old restrictions 06:12:41.229 --> 06:12:43.119 that are still valid 06:12:44.799 --> 06:12:50.029 it would set a bad precedent and as far as the safety 06:12:50.029 --> 06:12:53.279 downstream the last meeting 06:12:53.279 --> 06:12:56.750 I tried to talk a little bit about history and the other 06:12:56.750 --> 06:12:57.959 thing that was said 06:12:57.959 --> 06:13:01.490 in the work session that was I need to clarify is it was 06:13:01.490 --> 06:13:03.000 said that there was no 06:13:03.000 --> 06:13:06.880 homeless homeless Association I was president of a homeless 06:13:06.880 --> 06:13:07.500 Association 06:13:07.500 --> 06:13:11.560 right there for 20 years there was and has been a homeless 06:13:11.560 --> 06:13:15.080 Association okay and 06:13:15.080 --> 06:13:19.250 we have come together over all those years of decades to 06:13:19.250 --> 06:13:20.560 keep that dam in 06:13:20.560 --> 06:13:24.389 repair we built the whole thing once and then rebuild it 06:13:24.389 --> 06:13:25.959 again two or three times 06:13:25.959 --> 06:13:29.970 and we have what we have as far as that the concrete below 06:13:29.970 --> 06:13:31.299 the dam that's there 06:13:31.299 --> 06:13:36.610 purposefully and that was given that that's a suggestion 06:13:36.610 --> 06:13:37.919 was later on because 06:13:37.919 --> 06:13:41.569 the dam kept washing out underneath it so he said put a 06:13:41.569 --> 06:13:43.080 catchment pace in there 06:13:43.080 --> 06:13:46.700 a detention pond below that dam to keep it from washing 06:13:46.700 --> 06:13:48.040 under so that's why we 06:13:48.040 --> 06:13:50.490 put those concrete there it's not junk it's not dumped it's 06:13:50.490 --> 06:13:50.959 put there 06:13:50.959 --> 06:13:55.130 purposely and that pond which he calls a mosquito nest is a 06:13:55.130 --> 06:13:56.680 pond as the catchment 06:13:56.680 --> 06:13:59.250 pond so when the water comes over the dam it doesn't wash 06:13:59.250 --> 06:14:00.520 underneath it it's 06:14:00.520 --> 06:14:04.479 happened and we know before we got that and now that works 06:14:04.479 --> 06:14:05.439 and we and those 06:14:05.439 --> 06:14:09.259 things are full of concrete those cracks they're on the 06:14:09.259 --> 06:14:11.080 outside because we filled 06:14:11.080 --> 06:14:15.209 those those two sides and so spillway full of concrete I'm 06:14:15.209 --> 06:14:16.479 on my time is up 06:14:16.479 --> 06:14:20.240 that's I'm opposed to the I'm opposed to this on principle 06:14:20.240 --> 06:14:21.400 because it's violates 06:14:21.400 --> 06:14:24.880 our covenants sir could you state your name and address I'm 06:14:24.880 --> 06:14:26.000 sorry Doug 06:14:26.000 --> 06:14:31.319 Ebersole 3210 Montecito Road thank you 06:14:32.439 --> 06:14:37.430 our next speaker is John Wright to be followed by Weaver Mc 06:14:37.430 --> 06:14:41.479 Clure is is John 06:14:41.479 --> 06:14:44.919 Wright in the audience they might have already gone home at 06:14:44.919 --> 06:14:45.880 this late hour they 06:14:45.880 --> 06:14:50.599 marked that they did wish to speak in opposition Weaver Mc 06:14:50.599 --> 06:14:52.119 Clure is weaver here 06:14:52.119 --> 06:14:58.439 to be followed by Michael Doransky 06:15:07.319 --> 06:15:14.139 my name is Weaver McClure I live at 3100 Carmel Denton 06:15:14.139 --> 06:15:16.919 block C lot 7 I've been 06:15:16.919 --> 06:15:21.959 there since 1989 so I've been there about 28 years Doug 06:15:21.959 --> 06:15:22.759 said a lot of the 06:15:22.759 --> 06:15:25.569 same things that I'm going to go over when I first when I 06:15:25.569 --> 06:15:26.919 bought my house and 06:15:26.919 --> 06:15:32.990 paid for the house they gave me a deed restrictions and 06:15:32.990 --> 06:15:33.759 said you know you have 06:15:33.759 --> 06:15:37.619 to follow these and so we've done that and there's been 06:15:37.619 --> 06:15:39.240 times where we've had 06:15:39.240 --> 06:15:43.299 to come back together to let some of the lot owners there's 06:15:43.299 --> 06:15:45.240 a bankers 83 lots in 06:15:45.240 --> 06:15:49.470 Montecito understand that they do have deed restriction 06:15:49.470 --> 06:15:50.840 have to follow and if 06:15:50.840 --> 06:15:55.189 you'll look at that little dot we had somebody move in a 06:15:55.189 --> 06:15:57.680 farmhouse and so we 06:15:57.680 --> 06:16:01.419 had you know deal with that and that got straightened out 06:16:01.419 --> 06:16:03.599 and taken care of so if 06:16:03.599 --> 06:16:09.669 you'll look in like in 1965 when the deed restrictions 06:16:09.669 --> 06:16:11.479 passed Bob Nichols 06:16:11.479 --> 06:16:14.970 course started this and that's the name of the streets 06:16:14.970 --> 06:16:17.919 after California but this 06:16:17.919 --> 06:16:20.740 lot that's right next to here of the way you're thinking 06:16:20.740 --> 06:16:22.119 about replating this 06:16:22.119 --> 06:16:27.119 this man that helped write these and signed off on these 06:16:27.119 --> 06:16:28.000 deed restrictions 06:16:28.000 --> 06:16:35.990 was Mark clearman and so he is not there anymore he almost 06:16:35.990 --> 06:16:36.840 passed away there I 06:16:36.840 --> 06:16:39.799 guess for his soul is house and left so these deed 06:16:39.799 --> 06:16:41.080 restrictions are there and I 06:16:41.080 --> 06:16:43.340 know the staff does not have to follow the deed 06:16:43.340 --> 06:16:44.799 restrictions I keep hearing 06:16:44.799 --> 06:16:48.810 that a lot but I would make a suggestion that anytime you 06:16:48.810 --> 06:16:49.840 have anything that's 06:16:49.840 --> 06:16:53.000 going to be changed that you put that on top of the form 06:16:53.000 --> 06:16:53.840 does this comply with 06:16:53.840 --> 06:16:57.150 the deed restriction so everybody will know in the very 06:16:57.150 --> 06:16:58.360 beginning I'm very 06:16:58.360 --> 06:17:06.560 opposed to this this lot block B lot 13 has been there 06:17:06.560 --> 06:17:09.159 since forever that this 06:17:09.159 --> 06:17:13.799 addition has been there I really resent changing the name 06:17:13.799 --> 06:17:15.880 to a different name so 06:17:15.880 --> 06:17:20.400 in the future when this property is resold again that it 06:17:20.400 --> 06:17:20.919 will be called 06:17:20.919 --> 06:17:26.990 something different than the Montecito edition and far as 06:17:26.990 --> 06:17:28.479 dividing it up and 06:17:28.479 --> 06:17:31.889 replating it some of the covenants that we have now the 06:17:31.889 --> 06:17:33.759 deed restrictions say 06:17:33.759 --> 06:17:37.049 that you can't you have to build a resident none of the 06:17:37.049 --> 06:17:38.119 laws can be used 06:17:38.119 --> 06:17:41.639 but for residents so this property would have to have by 06:17:41.639 --> 06:17:42.720 the deed restrictions 06:17:42.720 --> 06:17:47.110 would have to have a resident put on it a house and so what 06:17:47.110 --> 06:17:49.180 by voting yes for 06:17:49.180 --> 06:17:52.400 this what you're putting is all the lot owners now are 06:17:52.400 --> 06:17:53.439 going to put in a 06:17:53.439 --> 06:17:57.740 position that our only solution is civil litigation and you 06:17:57.740 --> 06:17:59.240 know nobody wants to 06:17:59.240 --> 06:18:02.650 go there but that that's probably words had it if if you 06:18:02.650 --> 06:18:05.439 vote yes on this and 06:18:05.439 --> 06:18:10.659 that's about all I got to say any questions I have no 06:18:10.659 --> 06:18:11.720 questions at this 06:18:11.720 --> 06:18:21.159 time Commissioner Roselle thank you mr. McClure for your 06:18:21.159 --> 06:18:22.400 thoughtful presentation 06:18:22.400 --> 06:18:24.889 I do have a question that sure it might be reoccurring that 06:18:24.889 --> 06:18:25.560 anyone who's 06:18:25.560 --> 06:18:29.509 presenting could answer but it seems to me that mr. Hale 06:18:29.509 --> 06:18:30.919 has not up kept that 06:18:30.919 --> 06:18:34.750 the dam in terms of aesthetics cracks look like there's 06:18:34.750 --> 06:18:36.119 rocks in that creek 06:18:36.119 --> 06:18:39.290 bed and I don't know even his ability because it's riparian 06:18:39.290 --> 06:18:40.159 buffer to do so 06:18:40.159 --> 06:18:44.950 okay so that being said we have an individual who has said 06:18:44.950 --> 06:18:45.840 that he would 06:18:45.840 --> 06:18:50.860 like to bring up the aesthetics of the area within his his 06:18:50.860 --> 06:18:53.279 ability I'm trying 06:18:53.279 --> 06:18:55.540 to understand if you have an individual who's not doing 06:18:55.540 --> 06:18:56.240 that but you have an 06:18:56.240 --> 06:18:59.779 individual who now wants to is that not good for the 06:18:59.779 --> 06:19:01.639 overall Monticello addition 06:19:01.639 --> 06:19:03.849 well not not really because we're gonna have to have 06:19:03.849 --> 06:19:05.200 another resident there and 06:19:05.200 --> 06:19:08.200 you can't really have a lot without a resident on it 06:19:08.200 --> 06:19:10.080 residents on it so my 06:19:10.080 --> 06:19:13.700 suggestion in that situation is is that mr. Nims wants the 06:19:13.700 --> 06:19:14.939 property by the whole 06:19:14.939 --> 06:19:17.900 property and fix the dam and then he then he controls the 06:19:17.900 --> 06:19:18.759 whole thing and 06:19:18.759 --> 06:19:22.049 stays as one lot which that's where our covenants are you 06:19:22.049 --> 06:19:23.360 can't subdivide it 06:19:23.360 --> 06:19:27.369 Hank mr. Hale I misrepresented that because the first part 06:19:27.369 --> 06:19:28.000 of that says it 06:19:28.000 --> 06:19:31.159 can't be subdivided the second part talks about how big the 06:19:31.159 --> 06:19:32.000 lot has to be 06:19:32.000 --> 06:19:36.200 that you have to have a you know piece of a house on it I 06:19:36.200 --> 06:19:37.479 think that's where 06:19:37.479 --> 06:19:40.080 we're at and I've looked at this for a long time I've been 06:19:40.080 --> 06:19:41.240 on the deed 06:19:41.240 --> 06:19:44.240 restrictions committee in the past and so most people 06:19:44.240 --> 06:19:45.560 comply we really don't 06:19:45.560 --> 06:19:48.119 have much problems nobody wants to go talk to your neighbor 06:19:48.119 --> 06:19:48.880 and say look you 06:19:48.880 --> 06:19:52.139 know what are you building now without getting approval and 06:19:52.139 --> 06:19:52.779 it doesn't fit our 06:19:52.779 --> 06:19:55.360 covenants sure everybody got these when they bought the 06:19:55.360 --> 06:19:58.080 property so thank you 06:19:58.080 --> 06:20:02.119 you bet thank you one more question Commissioner Beck thank 06:20:02.119 --> 06:20:02.680 you vice chair 06:20:02.680 --> 06:20:06.689 thank you for your comments so am I understand you right 06:20:06.689 --> 06:20:07.799 then that whoever 06:20:07.799 --> 06:20:11.310 owns that lot where the dam is it's solely their 06:20:11.310 --> 06:20:13.560 responsibility to make not 06:20:13.560 --> 06:20:18.680 sure about that that part I haven't looked at okay because 06:20:18.680 --> 06:20:19.200 I think that's 06:20:19.200 --> 06:20:21.650 but if it's on your property I mean like if any of us has a 06:20:21.650 --> 06:20:22.720 piece of property I 06:20:22.720 --> 06:20:26.119 mean what's on your property here you know that's your deal 06:20:26.119 --> 06:20:27.240 and if it's not 06:20:27.240 --> 06:20:29.799 where you can take care of it maybe you need to do 06:20:29.799 --> 06:20:30.919 something different with the 06:20:30.919 --> 06:20:35.290 property well and I agree with that I do but if this 06:20:35.290 --> 06:20:37.680 impacts something that the 06:20:37.680 --> 06:20:41.580 whole neighborhood benefits from it seems like to put the 06:20:41.580 --> 06:20:42.520 onus on him to 06:20:42.520 --> 06:20:45.169 take care of something that everybody benefits from well my 06:20:45.169 --> 06:20:45.959 suggestion is 06:20:45.959 --> 06:20:48.319 there's a lot of people that back up to that in part of the 06:20:48.319 --> 06:20:48.959 covenants is 06:20:48.959 --> 06:20:51.259 everybody has a right to the waterways or any streams or 06:20:51.259 --> 06:20:52.279 anything that's there 06:20:52.279 --> 06:20:55.849 so it backs up to the property so really we ought to 06:20:55.849 --> 06:20:58.000 probably get those people to 06:20:58.000 --> 06:21:00.200 say look you know we'll pay for it I mean even maybe as a 06:21:00.200 --> 06:21:00.959 deed restriction 06:21:00.959 --> 06:21:04.380 committee we put in fees and things to cover that does 06:21:04.380 --> 06:21:05.919 anybody propose it not 06:21:05.919 --> 06:21:08.000 yet this is the first time this has really come up I didn't 06:21:08.000 --> 06:21:08.759 know about this 06:21:08.759 --> 06:21:19.549 till about three weeks ago okay okay thank you sir okay our 06:21:19.549 --> 06:21:20.159 next speaker is 06:21:20.159 --> 06:21:24.419 Michael Doransky to be followed by Jim Keffer and please 06:21:24.419 --> 06:21:25.599 state your name and 06:21:25.599 --> 06:21:29.430 address for the record my name is Michael Doransky I'm at 06:21:29.430 --> 06:21:31.439 2111 Montecito 06:21:31.439 --> 06:21:34.599 for what I've heard tonight the council cares about the 06:21:34.599 --> 06:21:35.639 majority of the citizens 06:21:35.639 --> 06:21:38.520 in the history of the city and I think that this case of 06:21:38.520 --> 06:21:39.560 this is just as well 06:21:39.560 --> 06:21:42.500 in this neighborhood as this neighborhood is also 50 years 06:21:42.500 --> 06:21:43.240 old and 06:21:43.240 --> 06:21:47.099 just as much care that was made for the historic area this 06:21:47.099 --> 06:21:48.520 area is just as is 06:21:48.520 --> 06:21:51.389 just as old by standards to be historic even though it 06:21:51.389 --> 06:21:52.439 doesn't have that 06:21:52.439 --> 06:21:56.000 designation and as people people speaking tonight do live 06:21:56.000 --> 06:21:56.479 in this 06:21:56.479 --> 06:21:58.849 neighborhood they're not from around the county they're not 06:21:58.849 --> 06:21:59.840 from random places 06:21:59.840 --> 06:22:03.509 these are people who actually do live on these streets and 06:22:03.509 --> 06:22:05.639 from we left off two 06:22:05.639 --> 06:22:09.349 weeks ago you know there was basically one or two 06:22:09.349 --> 06:22:10.240 homeowners that are in favor 06:22:10.240 --> 06:22:13.400 of this piece and for the project of subdividing their 06:22:13.400 --> 06:22:15.520 property and a couple 06:22:15.520 --> 06:22:18.209 weeks later we're probably still at that same point and 06:22:18.209 --> 06:22:21.560 basically I know that you 06:22:21.560 --> 06:22:23.759 all instructed us to say hey you need to have a neighbor 06:22:23.759 --> 06:22:25.040 the seller should have a 06:22:25.040 --> 06:22:29.919 a hosted meeting with the neighborhood well they didn't do 06:22:29.919 --> 06:22:30.759 that in fact 06:22:30.759 --> 06:22:32.889 basically some of the neighbors reached out to him and 06:22:32.889 --> 06:22:33.919 begged for a meeting for 06:22:33.919 --> 06:22:38.119 this Frank meeting I guess as he was saying to typically 06:22:38.119 --> 06:22:39.680 you know get their 06:22:39.680 --> 06:22:44.240 own input and he simply just took the suggestion just 06:22:44.240 --> 06:22:44.919 basically didn't do 06:22:44.919 --> 06:22:47.040 anything with it and maybe the reason why it is because 06:22:47.040 --> 06:22:48.119 maybe the properties 06:22:48.119 --> 06:22:52.400 already changed hands monetarily but just not on paper but 06:22:52.400 --> 06:22:53.400 some of the 06:22:53.400 --> 06:22:56.130 neighbors around the lake did beg for the meeting and they 06:22:56.130 --> 06:22:58.919 did get one and at 06:22:58.919 --> 06:23:02.400 this meeting for I understand it was basically you know 06:23:02.400 --> 06:23:03.799 trying to work out 06:23:03.799 --> 06:23:07.659 some sort of compromise but that really didn't occur it 06:23:07.659 --> 06:23:08.759 basically was saying hey 06:23:08.759 --> 06:23:12.000 you guys better get on board or there could be you know 06:23:12.000 --> 06:23:12.720 there could be 06:23:12.720 --> 06:23:15.229 consequences to the sort and basically I wasn't at this 06:23:15.229 --> 06:23:16.319 meeting but that's just 06:23:16.319 --> 06:23:18.560 basically from what I've heard from the other pieces of it 06:23:18.560 --> 06:23:19.919 and back to the 06:23:19.919 --> 06:23:22.250 meaning of before is hey if you don't like this project I 06:23:22.250 --> 06:23:23.000 got a much worse 06:23:23.000 --> 06:23:24.950 project for you if you want to get on board with if you don 06:23:24.950 --> 06:23:25.599 't get on board with 06:23:25.599 --> 06:23:30.180 this one that's kind of how I'm taking it as well and he 06:23:30.180 --> 06:23:32.319 knows maybe he drains 06:23:32.319 --> 06:23:35.479 the lake takes out the dam to punish us all for those 06:23:35.479 --> 06:23:36.959 pieces and you know being 06:23:36.959 --> 06:23:40.689 an insurance in those pieces flooding could be an issue it 06:23:40.689 --> 06:23:41.759 could cause damage 06:23:41.759 --> 06:23:44.729 downstream just to make us all pay for us standing up for 06:23:44.729 --> 06:23:46.080 what we don't want or 06:23:46.080 --> 06:23:50.840 what we believe in and for I understand the neighbors were 06:23:50.840 --> 06:23:51.599 interested in trying 06:23:51.599 --> 06:23:53.900 to see what the price was of this property to cheap out if 06:23:53.900 --> 06:23:54.560 we could match 06:23:54.560 --> 06:23:57.369 the price and then make it more of a HOA or community 06:23:57.369 --> 06:23:58.799 property that we all would 06:23:58.799 --> 06:24:01.979 be responsible for for this piece of property but for 06:24:01.979 --> 06:24:03.639 whatever reason that 06:24:03.639 --> 06:24:08.290 was not something that was that was entertaining instead 06:24:08.290 --> 06:24:09.799 you know basically 06:24:09.799 --> 06:24:12.060 they told us that hey it's gonna cost fifty to a hundred 06:24:12.060 --> 06:24:13.000 grand for this piece 06:24:13.000 --> 06:24:15.639 I've seen no estimates I don't know if you all have the 06:24:15.639 --> 06:24:16.959 estimates for this fifty 06:24:16.959 --> 06:24:20.159 to a hundred grand but basically I think that's just more 06:24:20.159 --> 06:24:21.159 of a scare tactic as 06:24:21.159 --> 06:24:23.759 well to try to get people on board of please let me do this 06:24:23.759 --> 06:24:24.599 because it's gonna 06:24:24.599 --> 06:24:27.180 cost a lot of money to clean out some dead trees was the 06:24:27.180 --> 06:24:28.200 guys already willing 06:24:28.200 --> 06:24:30.409 to do I don't know why he has to own the property to do if 06:24:30.409 --> 06:24:31.360 he's just want to be a 06:24:31.360 --> 06:24:34.520 good neighbor he could do it himself as well as people have 06:24:34.520 --> 06:24:35.139 said hey the 06:24:35.139 --> 06:24:37.220 neighbors were willing to help and get together but again 06:24:37.220 --> 06:24:37.919 this is the way we've 06:24:37.919 --> 06:24:42.610 we're handling it I guess you would say and basically with 06:24:42.610 --> 06:24:44.400 a requirement I would 06:24:44.400 --> 06:24:46.650 say if this is gonna happen if it's gonna cost fifty to a 06:24:46.650 --> 06:24:47.439 hundred why don't 06:24:47.439 --> 06:24:49.310 we just put a stipulation that there's a hundred thousand 06:24:49.310 --> 06:24:50.000 dollars put into an 06:24:50.000 --> 06:24:52.740 escrow account and basically it has to spend a minimum of a 06:24:52.740 --> 06:24:53.599 fifty thousand 06:24:53.599 --> 06:24:56.189 dollars over a course of a year if this is a true number of 06:24:56.189 --> 06:24:57.040 what it takes to 06:24:57.040 --> 06:25:00.360 repair this dam or engineering reports because as it is 06:25:00.360 --> 06:25:01.520 from I've talked to 06:25:01.520 --> 06:25:04.119 people the dam that's washed out hasn't even those numbers 06:25:04.119 --> 06:25:04.919 in all the years 06:25:04.919 --> 06:25:07.950 over all the time but basically those are the numbers that 06:25:07.950 --> 06:25:08.840 were given to us 06:25:08.840 --> 06:25:13.479 so to me it'd be easier just to deny this piece given that 06:25:13.479 --> 06:25:14.919 basically only one 06:25:14.919 --> 06:25:17.049 or two people are for it and the rest of the neighborhood 06:25:17.049 --> 06:25:18.639 is against it and being 06:25:18.639 --> 06:25:21.159 that many people here seem to take value in what the 06:25:21.159 --> 06:25:22.560 neighborhood wants and what 06:25:22.560 --> 06:25:26.130 our input is that is my input is basically is the majority 06:25:26.130 --> 06:25:27.200 of us do not 06:25:27.200 --> 06:25:30.360 want that except for the people who are benefiting from 06:25:30.360 --> 06:25:31.759 this piece financially 06:25:35.200 --> 06:25:41.750 Jim Keffer is our next speaker to be followed by Diane H 06:25:41.750 --> 06:25:45.200 uber so Jim Jim has 06:25:45.200 --> 06:25:50.040 left he did mark that he is in opposition Diane will be 06:25:50.040 --> 06:25:51.159 followed by 06:25:51.159 --> 06:26:00.840 Jason Thomas I'm sorry yeah I can move you down the list 06:26:00.840 --> 06:26:08.849 Jason Thomas is Jason Thomas here and then to be followed 06:26:08.849 --> 06:26:10.759 by Cortland 06:26:10.759 --> 06:26:20.080 Christopherson good March 9th to you 06:26:22.080 --> 06:26:25.799 I'm at 3400 Montecito I'm actually the property that abuts 06:26:25.799 --> 06:26:26.759 right back up to the 06:26:26.759 --> 06:26:31.029 other side of Steve Hale and a couple people have said that 06:26:31.029 --> 06:26:31.840 we've had you know 06:26:31.840 --> 06:26:34.450 other neighbors have had conversations with Steve I 06:26:34.450 --> 06:26:35.400 actually did have the 06:26:35.400 --> 06:26:37.610 conversation with Steve so Steve and I talked a little bit 06:26:37.610 --> 06:26:38.520 we actually talked a 06:26:38.520 --> 06:26:41.459 couple of times he expressed a lot of concerns about 06:26:41.459 --> 06:26:42.560 liability of the dam 06:26:42.560 --> 06:26:46.000 which is totally understandable I understand the situation 06:26:46.000 --> 06:26:46.919 we did also 06:26:46.919 --> 06:26:50.119 talk about possible resolutions to the sale if the 06:26:50.119 --> 06:26:51.520 committee is saying you know 06:26:51.520 --> 06:26:53.650 you're absolutely is going to approve this because there 06:26:53.650 --> 06:26:54.520 are two stipulations 06:26:54.520 --> 06:26:57.369 to meet and it's been met so that's kind of what we talked 06:26:57.369 --> 06:26:59.680 about so when I was 06:26:59.680 --> 06:27:01.500 talking to him I just said look you know we are all 06:27:01.500 --> 06:27:02.880 interested in protecting the 06:27:02.880 --> 06:27:05.150 dam and one of the things that I heard in the planning 06:27:05.150 --> 06:27:06.119 session earlier was 06:27:06.119 --> 06:27:08.400 something the council was saying about the easement of the 06:27:08.400 --> 06:27:09.159 waterways and stuff 06:27:09.159 --> 06:27:12.159 that the dam cannot be affected in any way shape or form by 06:27:12.159 --> 06:27:12.880 whoever owns a 06:27:12.880 --> 06:27:16.040 property now or is there some is there a way you can repeat 06:27:16.040 --> 06:27:17.080 what you said in the 06:27:17.080 --> 06:27:19.840 planning session and not have it a basically affect my time 06:27:19.840 --> 06:27:20.840 with regards to 06:27:20.840 --> 06:27:23.779 the actual dam and doing anything to affect the dam 06:27:23.779 --> 06:27:25.319 specifically on the dam 06:27:25.319 --> 06:27:29.310 we determined that it was in place at the time of the 06:27:29.310 --> 06:27:31.200 subdivision being put 06:27:31.200 --> 06:27:38.069 into place so it it impacted or contributed to the 06:27:38.069 --> 06:27:38.799 mitigation for the 06:27:38.799 --> 06:27:42.150 drainage on the subdivision and it looks like a lot of the 06:27:42.150 --> 06:27:43.520 street drainage goes 06:27:43.520 --> 06:27:49.599 into that particular area so to remove something like that 06:27:49.599 --> 06:27:50.799 you would have to go 06:27:50.799 --> 06:27:54.689 through the city because it would affect all of the 06:27:54.689 --> 06:27:57.119 drainage on the property and 06:27:57.119 --> 06:28:00.639 you would have to show some sort of other alternative 06:28:00.639 --> 06:28:02.279 mitigation downstream 06:28:02.279 --> 06:28:05.880 in order to get an approval on something like that in 06:28:05.880 --> 06:28:07.880 addition there is a riparian 06:28:07.880 --> 06:28:11.990 buffer there because of the waterway so anything along the 06:28:11.990 --> 06:28:12.919 perimeter of the 06:28:12.919 --> 06:28:17.439 waterway would be considered a protected area that would 06:28:17.439 --> 06:28:19.000 require a permit in 06:28:19.000 --> 06:28:26.319 order to remove it so at any point that he tries to remove 06:28:26.319 --> 06:28:27.599 any of that 06:28:27.599 --> 06:28:32.750 vegetation around the waterway or if there is a potential 06:28:32.750 --> 06:28:34.439 attempt to remove 06:28:34.439 --> 06:28:38.169 the dam that would all go through the city and we would 06:28:38.169 --> 06:28:40.479 have to approve it the 06:28:40.479 --> 06:28:43.310 reason why I was asking is not to say that you know mr. Nel 06:28:43.310 --> 06:28:44.200 ms would do that 06:28:44.200 --> 06:28:47.200 because obviously he's you know wants to improve the land 06:28:47.200 --> 06:28:48.599 but as far as being 06:28:48.599 --> 06:28:51.319 owner of the property that butts right to it I have no 06:28:51.319 --> 06:28:52.799 guarantee of any way 06:28:52.799 --> 06:28:55.830 shape or form so believe me if you purchase the land and 06:28:55.830 --> 06:28:56.639 that's what they 06:28:56.639 --> 06:28:59.369 wanted to do then that's great and he's got good intentions 06:28:59.369 --> 06:29:00.279 but the next buyer 06:29:00.279 --> 06:29:03.819 who gets sold to what I am trying to figure out is how do 06:29:03.819 --> 06:29:04.799 we protect my 06:29:04.799 --> 06:29:06.700 investment that I made I'm very new to the community 06:29:06.700 --> 06:29:07.639 probably newest member 06:29:07.639 --> 06:29:11.520 besides Brandon and you know we're making that investment 06:29:11.520 --> 06:29:12.040 to keep that 06:29:12.040 --> 06:29:15.200 that whole neighborhood up and going and obviously mr. Nel 06:29:15.200 --> 06:29:15.840 ms seems wants to do 06:29:15.840 --> 06:29:19.459 the same thing I see the same one so you know my concern is 06:29:19.459 --> 06:29:20.919 purely protection of 06:29:20.919 --> 06:29:24.090 our neighborhood so if that means you know not approving 06:29:24.090 --> 06:29:25.319 the subdivision now 06:29:25.319 --> 06:29:28.849 of the lot because of certain restrictions and the deeds 06:29:28.849 --> 06:29:29.680 then that's 06:29:29.680 --> 06:29:33.970 fine if that exact means that we table this matter because 06:29:33.970 --> 06:29:34.560 I wasn't actually 06:29:34.560 --> 06:29:37.560 physically notified via certified mail even though I am on 06:29:37.560 --> 06:29:38.400 the tax rolls and 06:29:38.400 --> 06:29:42.360 been for 16 months I got no certified letter I work at home 06:29:42.360 --> 06:29:43.319 every day my wife 06:29:43.319 --> 06:29:45.919 works at home every day we never got we never got the 06:29:45.919 --> 06:29:47.799 letter so I didn't find 06:29:47.799 --> 06:29:50.669 out about this until about eight days ago and during that 06:29:50.669 --> 06:29:51.720 eight days I've had 06:29:51.720 --> 06:29:54.689 conversations with the neighbors so today my my perspective 06:29:54.689 --> 06:29:55.479 to you guys would 06:29:55.479 --> 06:29:58.360 be this needs to be tabled and let us have a discussion I 06:29:58.360 --> 06:29:59.200 would actually like 06:29:59.200 --> 06:30:01.279 to have a discussion with mr. Helms you know and just say 06:30:01.279 --> 06:30:02.040 look you know what is 06:30:02.040 --> 06:30:04.919 what is the plan how can we help I have neighbors that have 06:30:04.919 --> 06:30:05.799 continually come to 06:30:05.799 --> 06:30:09.759 us and say look we can we want to support the cleanup of 06:30:09.759 --> 06:30:11.080 the dam everybody 06:30:11.080 --> 06:30:14.299 knows I think that's the common you know factor of this 06:30:14.299 --> 06:30:16.000 whole situation nobody 06:30:16.000 --> 06:30:18.729 wants to let that thing go away the city can't let it go 06:30:18.729 --> 06:30:20.119 away without permits 06:30:20.119 --> 06:30:22.770 there's a lot of obstruction there so I just want to make 06:30:22.770 --> 06:30:23.840 sure my point is heard 06:30:23.840 --> 06:30:26.409 to the council that I wasn't notified I'd love the chance 06:30:26.409 --> 06:30:27.439 to have this table to 06:30:27.439 --> 06:30:30.470 discuss some really clean opportunity to fix the fix the 06:30:30.470 --> 06:30:31.639 dam together as a whole 06:30:31.639 --> 06:30:35.200 neighborhood that's my position I do have a question 06:30:35.200 --> 06:30:41.270 sure Commissioner Sullivan thank you what is the status of 06:30:41.270 --> 06:30:43.159 the HOA is there 06:30:43.159 --> 06:30:48.759 one does anybody pay fees is it official unofficial I do 06:30:48.759 --> 06:30:50.360 not know that there's 06:30:50.360 --> 06:30:52.240 other folks who have been in the neighborhood a lot longer 06:30:52.240 --> 06:30:52.680 who have had 06:30:52.680 --> 06:31:00.099 more control over that I can't answer that closing closing 06:31:00.099 --> 06:31:00.680 you didn't have to 06:31:00.680 --> 06:31:05.740 pay HOA fees or anything at that point okay that's since 06:31:05.740 --> 06:31:07.680 you were newer you 06:31:07.680 --> 06:31:12.659 might have encountered that or not so okay thank you very 06:31:12.659 --> 06:31:14.080 much appreciate so 06:31:14.080 --> 06:31:17.819 our next speaker is Cortland Christopherson to be followed 06:31:17.819 --> 06:31:18.400 by Diane 06:31:18.400 --> 06:31:26.639 Huber I would like to clarify the matter I am 06:31:26.639 --> 06:31:29.419 Coraline Christopherson I'm an attorney with the schnall 06:31:29.419 --> 06:31:30.479 offering and file on 06:31:30.479 --> 06:31:36.959 Texas I do by happenstance actually have lived in this area 06:31:36.959 --> 06:31:37.919 I lived 06:31:37.919 --> 06:31:41.970 essentially across the street or up the street from mr. Mc 06:31:41.970 --> 06:31:43.360 Clure for the majority 06:31:43.360 --> 06:31:46.000 of my life and before that I lived in a high view circle so 06:31:46.000 --> 06:31:47.000 I'm very familiar 06:31:47.000 --> 06:31:54.439 with this area I was brought in on very short notice on 06:31:54.439 --> 06:31:56.159 this matter 06:31:56.159 --> 06:32:03.029 last Thursday got a somewhat panic call from miss Cassandra 06:32:03.029 --> 06:32:04.279 Cornell who was 06:32:04.279 --> 06:32:10.639 concerned about the impact of the property values and the 06:32:10.639 --> 06:32:11.880 potential 06:32:11.880 --> 06:32:15.869 ramifications for this neighborhood if this subdivision was 06:32:15.869 --> 06:32:17.639 to go through in 06:32:17.639 --> 06:32:22.069 the midst of trying to somehow learn more about this matter 06:32:22.069 --> 06:32:23.159 I've kind of been 06:32:23.159 --> 06:32:27.479 stonewalled a little bit I was not able to get in touch 06:32:27.479 --> 06:32:28.520 with the department I'm 06:32:28.520 --> 06:32:31.939 sure you all are very busy and sounds like the matter 06:32:31.939 --> 06:32:34.040 before this was rather 06:32:34.040 --> 06:32:37.700 large I'm sure you're working on very hard but nonetheless 06:32:37.700 --> 06:32:38.400 I'll never get in 06:32:38.400 --> 06:32:42.069 touch with them and then I also tried to get a copy of the 06:32:42.069 --> 06:32:42.959 underlying 06:32:42.959 --> 06:32:46.400 application documents and the master list of all people 06:32:46.400 --> 06:32:47.720 that notice was sent 06:32:47.720 --> 06:32:51.580 to I was informed that that was an open records request and 06:32:51.580 --> 06:32:52.720 they had at least 06:32:52.720 --> 06:32:57.549 ten days to respond to that so I haven't been able to make 06:32:57.549 --> 06:32:59.840 a fully-fledged 06:32:59.840 --> 06:33:04.799 investigation in this matter I don't think that as such 06:33:04.799 --> 06:33:06.720 this commission 06:33:06.720 --> 06:33:12.869 should approve this application just for the Mac the the 06:33:12.869 --> 06:33:16.720 fact that they tabled 06:33:16.720 --> 06:33:20.759 this discussion at the last hearing and in the intervening 06:33:20.759 --> 06:33:22.599 period more homeowners 06:33:22.599 --> 06:33:25.259 have discovered that this is going on a number of 06:33:25.259 --> 06:33:27.639 homeowners themselves have not 06:33:27.639 --> 06:33:30.560 received notice I know Jason said that he didn't get notice 06:33:30.560 --> 06:33:32.200 Brandon also 06:33:32.200 --> 06:33:34.650 mentioned they did get they did not get notice they were 06:33:34.650 --> 06:33:35.799 both on the tax rolls 06:33:35.799 --> 06:33:40.610 in 2015 and they've had tax assessments for 2016 and they 06:33:40.610 --> 06:33:42.040 've also had certified 06:33:42.040 --> 06:33:46.119 notice of previous proceedings in this matter leave Brandon 06:33:46.119 --> 06:33:46.840 filed an 06:33:46.840 --> 06:33:51.569 application for some amendment for this court and they 06:33:51.569 --> 06:33:53.680 received in that matter 06:33:53.680 --> 06:33:55.930 but they didn't get in this one so I don't know what the 06:33:55.930 --> 06:33:56.599 issue was but 06:33:56.599 --> 06:34:00.770 there's a defect in the notice I believe and I'd like to 06:34:00.770 --> 06:34:02.119 just point out to the 06:34:02.119 --> 06:34:09.270 court that I think the city attorney stated well that this 06:34:09.270 --> 06:34:11.040 application is 06:34:11.040 --> 06:34:16.819 final and not appeal so that the only remedy for homeowners 06:34:16.819 --> 06:34:17.880 in the subdivision 06:34:17.880 --> 06:34:23.950 from now is suit and whether that is against mr. Nelms or 06:34:23.950 --> 06:34:25.560 against mr. Hale 06:34:25.560 --> 06:34:32.959 will frankly not matter much it will be a time-consuming 06:34:32.959 --> 06:34:35.119 and expensive procedure 06:34:35.119 --> 06:34:39.630 which could easily be avoided I believe that this 06:34:39.630 --> 06:34:42.000 Commission should grant 06:34:42.000 --> 06:34:45.430 another continuance in this matter for a significantly 06:34:45.430 --> 06:34:47.720 longer period in order for 06:34:47.720 --> 06:34:53.790 members of this community and mr. Hale and mr. Nelms to 06:34:53.790 --> 06:34:55.040 work together to find a 06:34:55.040 --> 06:35:01.810 mutually beneficial decision and to remedy the situation 06:35:01.810 --> 06:35:03.159 you know whether 06:35:03.159 --> 06:35:07.330 that needs to be through a deed amendment or you know 06:35:07.330 --> 06:35:08.759 mutual leases on 06:35:08.759 --> 06:35:15.669 all parties that that remains to be decided but as of now I 06:35:15.669 --> 06:35:18.040 think that this 06:35:18.040 --> 06:35:22.770 panel had a made a very smart decision 15 days ago or so 06:35:22.770 --> 06:35:24.279 and they noticed that 06:35:24.279 --> 06:35:26.119 there was a bunch of conflict here and they made a very 06:35:26.119 --> 06:35:27.000 smart decision to push 06:35:27.000 --> 06:35:33.069 it and I would say that this Commission should push this 06:35:33.069 --> 06:35:34.360 matter again for 06:35:34.360 --> 06:35:40.020 another longer period in order to find a solution that does 06:35:40.020 --> 06:35:41.840 not entail future 06:35:41.840 --> 06:35:48.479 litigation in terms of I guess the professor from earlier 06:35:48.479 --> 06:35:50.000 but yeah I think 06:35:50.000 --> 06:35:56.069 but I'd like to say that this Commission's stamina is very 06:35:56.069 --> 06:35:57.040 impressive I 06:35:57.040 --> 06:36:01.409 think this is coming along by eight hour workday and now 06:36:01.409 --> 06:36:03.799 coming up on eight hours 06:36:03.799 --> 06:36:07.369 here between this hearing and the earlier meeting so very 06:36:07.369 --> 06:36:08.400 impressive and 06:36:08.400 --> 06:36:12.400 thank you for your service thank you oh we do have one 06:36:12.400 --> 06:36:13.080 question 06:36:13.080 --> 06:36:20.610 Commissioner Hudson yes sir stuff Christopherson Christoph 06:36:20.610 --> 06:36:21.360 erson thank you 06:36:21.360 --> 06:36:25.360 Christopherson mr. Christopherson I'd be interested to get 06:36:25.360 --> 06:36:27.840 your take on this body 06:36:27.840 --> 06:36:31.130 how do you connect this body and so understanding the 06:36:31.130 --> 06:36:32.400 decision to me bait 06:36:32.400 --> 06:36:35.560 understanding the the the kind of the parameters because 06:36:35.560 --> 06:36:36.479 regardless of if 06:36:36.479 --> 06:36:40.340 you've been able to receive the documents you you need the 06:36:40.340 --> 06:36:41.000 charters 06:36:41.000 --> 06:36:47.240 online and then kind of the the codes are online it doesn't 06:36:47.240 --> 06:36:49.319 really how do you 06:36:49.319 --> 06:36:55.389 connect those two like our option to ignore our call or not 06:36:55.389 --> 06:36:56.599 execute our call 06:36:56.599 --> 06:37:00.459 versus a deed restriction which doesn't come into our pur 06:37:00.459 --> 06:37:02.759 view you know I think 06:37:02.759 --> 06:37:07.639 that's a very fair question I know that deed restriction 06:37:07.639 --> 06:37:08.599 and interpretation is 06:37:08.599 --> 06:37:15.259 not under the jurisdiction of this panel but overarching 06:37:15.259 --> 06:37:17.599 ways I think this court 06:37:17.599 --> 06:37:20.759 can take it into account in deciding whether something 06:37:20.759 --> 06:37:22.080 should be approved or 06:37:22.080 --> 06:37:29.689 not in the fact that while while this Commission cannot 06:37:29.689 --> 06:37:31.520 enforce them or you 06:37:31.520 --> 06:37:37.630 know amend alter or evoke them they can say you can see the 06:37:37.630 --> 06:37:39.680 ramifications of 06:37:39.680 --> 06:37:43.209 this matter you know you approve this what happens well 06:37:43.209 --> 06:37:43.919 they're left without a 06:37:43.919 --> 06:37:46.270 remedy so they got to go somewhere they're gonna go to the 06:37:46.270 --> 06:37:47.680 court you can 06:37:47.680 --> 06:37:50.259 prevent that you can stop that from giving them an 06:37:50.259 --> 06:37:51.680 opportunity just kind of 06:37:51.680 --> 06:37:56.680 take a step back cool down and think with level head rather 06:37:56.680 --> 06:37:57.919 than rushing from 06:37:57.919 --> 06:38:00.680 step to step to step trying to get this application this 06:38:00.680 --> 06:38:02.040 information this notice 06:38:02.040 --> 06:38:08.560 throwing it all together it's it's been a very rushed a few 06:38:08.560 --> 06:38:11.599 days all right thank 06:38:11.599 --> 06:38:13.840 you sir 06:38:14.319 --> 06:38:20.389 Diane Huber Huber to be followed by Cassandra Cornell I'm 06:38:20.389 --> 06:38:21.599 dr. Diane Huber 06:38:21.599 --> 06:38:26.549 and I reside at 3310 my seat oh there's so many things 06:38:26.549 --> 06:38:28.599 floating around I'd like 06:38:28.599 --> 06:38:31.830 to try to pull some things together thank you for allowing 06:38:31.830 --> 06:38:33.520 me to speak first 06:38:33.520 --> 06:38:36.880 I want to address you Commissioner back you asked had 06:38:36.880 --> 06:38:39.599 anyone approached mr. 06:38:39.599 --> 06:38:43.220 Nelms about offering to put money up and last night I went 06:38:43.220 --> 06:38:44.799 and I knocked on mr. 06:38:44.799 --> 06:38:50.979 Nelms his door and I did agree that his view of the lake is 06:38:50.979 --> 06:38:52.680 is not as attractive 06:38:52.680 --> 06:38:58.750 as others and I offered to buy the lot to pay for the 06:38:58.750 --> 06:38:59.840 complete reconstruction 06:38:59.840 --> 06:39:03.849 of the dam to take care of any cost he said no he had it 06:39:03.849 --> 06:39:05.840 all taken care of but 06:39:05.840 --> 06:39:11.909 I did offer the other thing I want to commend you is when 06:39:11.909 --> 06:39:12.680 you made this 06:39:12.680 --> 06:39:17.180 statement earlier this evening that we needed to protect 06:39:17.180 --> 06:39:18.279 our neighborhood 06:39:18.279 --> 06:39:23.040 heritage over 25 years ago I had the privilege of living on 06:39:23.040 --> 06:39:24.360 Montecito and 06:39:24.360 --> 06:39:29.229 raising four sons who enjoyed playing in this lake today I 06:39:29.229 --> 06:39:30.520 have the great 06:39:30.520 --> 06:39:34.330 privilege because of that neighborhood heritage to watch my 06:39:34.330 --> 06:39:35.799 12 grandchildren 06:39:35.799 --> 06:39:41.869 play in that lake I have heard said tonight that you don't 06:39:41.869 --> 06:39:43.560 have control over 06:39:43.560 --> 06:39:48.520 deed restrictions however according to your code you must 06:39:48.520 --> 06:39:50.599 divide by Texas code 06:39:50.599 --> 06:39:56.840 2 1 2 and if we look at Texas code 2 1 2 point 0 1 4 06:39:56.840 --> 06:39:58.959 regarding replating without 06:39:58.959 --> 06:40:04.150 vacating preceding plat you have the authority a replat of 06:40:04.150 --> 06:40:05.680 a subdivision or 06:40:05.680 --> 06:40:09.950 part of a subdivision may be recorded and is controlling 06:40:09.950 --> 06:40:11.479 over the preceding 06:40:11.479 --> 06:40:16.330 plat without vacation of that plat if the replat one is 06:40:16.330 --> 06:40:18.159 signed and acknowledged 06:40:18.159 --> 06:40:23.720 two is approved in a public hearing and three does not 06:40:23.720 --> 06:40:26.319 attempt to amend or 06:40:26.319 --> 06:40:33.639 remove any covenant or restrictions I believe the Montecito 06:40:33.639 --> 06:40:35.500 area is covered by 06:40:35.500 --> 06:40:40.130 deed restrictions that you've seen tonight that have been 06:40:40.130 --> 06:40:41.200 amended and I 06:40:41.200 --> 06:40:46.290 believe that this Commission does have the right the 06:40:46.290 --> 06:40:48.319 opportunity and the 06:40:48.319 --> 06:40:56.720 responsibility to deny this request thank you thank you our 06:40:56.720 --> 06:40:58.360 last the last 06:40:58.360 --> 06:41:01.119 card I have is for Cassandra Cornell if anybody else would 06:41:01.119 --> 06:41:02.240 like to speak please 06:41:02.240 --> 06:41:16.369 fill out a blue card hi I'm Cassandra Cornell at 3200 Mont 06:41:16.369 --> 06:41:17.919 ecito thank you very 06:41:17.919 --> 06:41:21.799 much for PNC for staying so late and also for granting us 06:41:21.799 --> 06:41:23.000 the two weeks to 06:41:23.000 --> 06:41:26.459 try to digest and take care of this issue as neighbors when 06:41:26.459 --> 06:41:27.439 we last spoke we 06:41:27.439 --> 06:41:30.240 were asked to work together as neighbors to find a solution 06:41:30.240 --> 06:41:31.319 and during that time 06:41:31.319 --> 06:41:34.619 it came to our attention that the Thomases who would join 06:41:34.619 --> 06:41:35.560 roughly at the 06:41:35.560 --> 06:41:38.779 dam area were one of the many people who did not receive a 06:41:38.779 --> 06:41:39.919 letter in the meeting 06:41:39.919 --> 06:41:43.130 before this you posted how many people got letters or said 06:41:43.130 --> 06:41:44.040 they didn't get 06:41:44.040 --> 06:41:46.680 letters but we didn't see it for this particular group we 06:41:46.680 --> 06:41:47.400 've heard from 06:41:47.400 --> 06:41:50.229 countless amounts of people that are opposed to this and 06:41:50.229 --> 06:41:51.319 have expressed that 06:41:51.319 --> 06:41:54.110 we would like to share that with everyone who's in 06:41:54.110 --> 06:41:55.439 attendance and who is 06:41:55.439 --> 06:41:59.040 listening the Thomas's have lived there for 16 months and 06:41:59.040 --> 06:42:00.119 they have received 06:42:00.119 --> 06:42:03.319 letters from for other city issues regathering other 06:42:03.319 --> 06:42:04.919 properties recently and 06:42:04.919 --> 06:42:08.209 three and also three months ago but they did not receive a 06:42:08.209 --> 06:42:09.360 letter regarding their 06:42:09.360 --> 06:42:13.090 own issue we also have come up with several ideas to solve 06:42:13.090 --> 06:42:13.919 what we were told 06:42:13.919 --> 06:42:16.900 was the issue of the dam liability but we were not given 06:42:16.900 --> 06:42:18.119 the opportunity and 06:42:18.119 --> 06:42:20.430 were informed that the seller and buyer have already 06:42:20.430 --> 06:42:22.000 completed this transaction 06:42:22.000 --> 06:42:25.380 with the sellers being the real estate attorney and realtor 06:42:25.380 --> 06:42:26.400 and that was that 06:42:26.400 --> 06:42:29.619 and that they're just waiting to actually kept the funds go 06:42:29.619 --> 06:42:31.240 through tomorrow so 06:42:31.240 --> 06:42:34.930 there was no discussions to be had we were also asked to 06:42:34.930 --> 06:42:36.159 find a technical 06:42:36.159 --> 06:42:39.319 issue and that we needed to talk to you about that but we 06:42:39.319 --> 06:42:40.159 were not allowed to 06:42:40.159 --> 06:42:45.330 see the replat to evaluate and just because there are so 06:42:45.330 --> 06:42:46.360 many people who were 06:42:46.360 --> 06:42:49.540 not given proper notice and we are very worried about the 06:42:49.540 --> 06:42:50.840 future impact future 06:42:50.840 --> 06:42:53.020 owners of this property might have on our beloved 06:42:53.020 --> 06:42:54.599 neighborhood and after 06:42:54.599 --> 06:42:57.529 listening to the other properties being rezoned and 06:42:57.529 --> 06:42:59.000 developed by mr. Nelms 06:42:59.000 --> 06:43:01.909 tonight I feel neighbors who did not receive a notice must 06:43:01.909 --> 06:43:02.759 simply just have 06:43:02.759 --> 06:43:07.060 more time to investigate the situation further according to 06:43:07.060 --> 06:43:08.400 our covenants he 06:43:08.400 --> 06:43:11.049 mentioned something about putting a basketball court up and 06:43:11.049 --> 06:43:11.520 that also 06:43:11.520 --> 06:43:18.080 violates a covenant and according to 212.04 if a proposed 06:43:18.080 --> 06:43:19.119 plot arguably 06:43:19.119 --> 06:43:24.680 violates restricted codes it must be disapproved by 212.04 06:43:24.680 --> 06:43:25.240 and this also 06:43:25.240 --> 06:43:28.840 this violates that so what I'm saying is we just simply 06:43:28.840 --> 06:43:30.479 haven't had time to work 06:43:30.479 --> 06:43:33.720 together and we really need to have just a little more time 06:43:33.720 --> 06:43:34.840 so that we can come 06:43:34.840 --> 06:43:38.919 together as a community I just don't think that this should 06:43:38.919 --> 06:43:39.639 have ever gotten 06:43:39.639 --> 06:43:42.400 here in the first place I think there should have been more 06:43:42.400 --> 06:43:43.439 investigation more 06:43:43.439 --> 06:43:46.970 communication with the whole situation and it's been done 06:43:46.970 --> 06:43:48.240 so quickly and behind 06:43:48.240 --> 06:43:51.159 our backs and nobody wants to talk to us about it one of 06:43:51.159 --> 06:43:52.439 the proposed things that 06:43:52.439 --> 06:43:55.759 we had come up with as a compromise is the Thomas property 06:43:55.759 --> 06:43:56.840 that joins the hill 06:43:56.840 --> 06:43:59.759 property is joined by an easement where the dam is located 06:43:59.759 --> 06:44:01.040 and since mr. Hale 06:44:01.040 --> 06:44:03.990 stated at the hearing and to mr. Ebersole and to mr. Thomas 06:44:03.990 --> 06:44:04.439 that he 06:44:04.439 --> 06:44:07.599 simply does not want the liability of the dam we wanted to 06:44:07.599 --> 06:44:08.520 propose a replat 06:44:08.520 --> 06:44:11.229 which would not involve subdividing it would not be in 06:44:11.229 --> 06:44:12.240 violation of deed 06:44:12.240 --> 06:44:15.270 restrictions but simply moving the property line to cover 06:44:15.270 --> 06:44:15.919 the dam to be 06:44:15.919 --> 06:44:18.630 part of the Thomas property removing the burden he is 06:44:18.630 --> 06:44:19.680 trying to get rid of 06:44:19.680 --> 06:44:22.689 therefore mr. Hale would be able to enjoy his property no 06:44:22.689 --> 06:44:23.720 restrictions are 06:44:23.720 --> 06:44:26.159 violated and the Thomas's and neighbors contend to the 06:44:26.159 --> 06:44:27.840 carrot to the dam care 06:44:27.840 --> 06:44:31.380 for the dam this is just one of many different kinds of 06:44:31.380 --> 06:44:32.040 things we've come up 06:44:32.040 --> 06:44:35.279 with but we haven't been able to discuss as a neighborhood 06:44:35.279 --> 06:44:36.319 we just feel very 06:44:36.319 --> 06:44:38.860 vulnerable because this would be a person that does not 06:44:38.860 --> 06:44:39.639 live on the lake 06:44:39.639 --> 06:44:43.049 who would essentially be in great control of the lake and 06:44:43.049 --> 06:44:44.419 also when I read 06:44:44.419 --> 06:44:46.729 in the deed restrictions it has to be for residential 06:44:46.729 --> 06:44:47.840 purposes where you have 06:44:47.840 --> 06:44:51.250 to put a house and I don't see on a floodplain how you can 06:44:51.250 --> 06:44:52.439 possibly build a 06:44:52.439 --> 06:44:55.060 house and it also has to be a certain amount of square feet 06:44:55.060 --> 06:44:56.560 there are many many 06:44:56.560 --> 06:44:59.720 other restrictions and so I think that we really need to 06:44:59.720 --> 06:45:01.000 have this more time to 06:45:01.000 --> 06:45:06.560 go over this thank you very much we do have a question 06:45:06.560 --> 06:45:09.159 commissioner Rosal thank 06:45:09.159 --> 06:45:12.159 you for your time the question is not actually directed at 06:45:12.159 --> 06:45:12.959 you but rather a 06:45:12.959 --> 06:45:15.959 point that you've brought up as well as other individuals 06:45:15.959 --> 06:45:17.000 we talked in work 06:45:17.000 --> 06:45:19.340 session about the notice of certified mail going out to the 06:45:19.340 --> 06:45:21.000 tax rolls it seems 06:45:21.000 --> 06:45:23.680 like mr. Thomas he's been there for 16 months and but you 06:45:23.680 --> 06:45:24.439 mentioned the tax 06:45:24.439 --> 06:45:29.029 rolls get updated as at most once a year so I have some 06:45:29.029 --> 06:45:31.200 concern about how a stay 06:45:31.200 --> 06:45:35.419 at home individual who's working at the house well I guess 06:45:35.419 --> 06:45:36.639 here's our question 06:45:36.639 --> 06:45:40.610 is there any evidence that we can provide that a certified 06:45:40.610 --> 06:45:41.680 letter went to 06:45:41.680 --> 06:45:45.759 that property owner and the address it went to the 06:45:45.759 --> 06:45:47.919 information that we have on 06:45:47.919 --> 06:45:50.549 our certified tax roll that we receive from our technical 06:45:50.549 --> 06:45:51.599 services department 06:45:51.599 --> 06:45:55.330 we can cross reference that with these addresses and check 06:45:55.330 --> 06:45:56.599 as you're aware and 06:45:56.599 --> 06:45:59.049 I've mentioned this previously and this has occurred with 06:45:59.049 --> 06:45:59.880 past cases to where 06:45:59.880 --> 06:46:02.560 certified mail goes out and just doesn't get collected and 06:46:02.560 --> 06:46:03.400 comes back so we'll 06:46:03.400 --> 06:46:06.560 cross-reference with that as well and verify what the issue 06:46:06.560 --> 06:46:07.639 is secondly we did 06:46:07.639 --> 06:46:11.270 publish in the paper and again the agenda is posted too so 06:46:11.270 --> 06:46:12.200 we can verify 06:46:12.200 --> 06:46:15.360 and see where that disconnect was as it relates to the tax 06:46:15.360 --> 06:46:16.319 roll we can see if 06:46:16.319 --> 06:46:19.119 there were other notices apparently that were received with 06:46:19.119 --> 06:46:19.919 other items or 06:46:19.919 --> 06:46:23.590 elements associated with but we can check and see what 06:46:23.590 --> 06:46:24.759 happened there I 06:46:24.759 --> 06:46:28.650 think you would be pertinent to do that regardless of what 06:46:28.650 --> 06:46:30.200 happens this evening 06:46:30.200 --> 06:46:34.520 but one of my concern is is what is the implications for 06:46:34.520 --> 06:46:36.400 legal posting if in fact 06:46:36.400 --> 06:46:40.040 there was a missed notice that actually didn't go out so we 06:46:40.040 --> 06:46:41.200 we after the fact 06:46:41.200 --> 06:46:45.880 look and say 3,400 Montecito actually no property owner 06:46:45.880 --> 06:46:47.400 current owner received 06:46:47.400 --> 06:46:49.919 notification is there implications to public notice in 06:46:49.919 --> 06:46:51.560 terms of actually moving 06:46:51.560 --> 06:46:53.680 on this item tonight Commissioner Rizal I would actually 06:46:53.680 --> 06:46:55.040 have to pull up the GIS 06:46:55.040 --> 06:46:57.979 map and look at all the mapping and all the addresses and 06:46:57.979 --> 06:46:59.240 cross-reference and 06:46:59.240 --> 06:47:02.459 see if that fell within or was shy off or within the 200 06:47:02.459 --> 06:47:04.000 foot notification area 06:47:04.000 --> 06:47:07.290 first of all so sitting here I can't categorically state 06:47:07.290 --> 06:47:08.279 whether it was an 06:47:08.279 --> 06:47:13.580 error or not I hope it was not an error and I think we 06:47:13.580 --> 06:47:15.000 touched upon this at the 06:47:15.000 --> 06:47:17.880 at the work session to Jennifer if I can lean on you please 06:47:17.880 --> 06:47:18.759 to address that 06:47:18.759 --> 06:47:22.709 issue that Commissioner Rizal has brought up sure so what 06:47:22.709 --> 06:47:24.479 would cause a 06:47:24.479 --> 06:47:27.509 problem would be our non-compliance with the statutory 06:47:27.509 --> 06:47:28.639 requirements and the 06:47:28.639 --> 06:47:32.029 statutory requirement state that we have to send notice 06:47:32.029 --> 06:47:33.840 within 200 feet of the 06:47:33.840 --> 06:47:38.369 affected property to individuals on the latest tax roll and 06:47:38.369 --> 06:47:39.520 so as long as we 06:47:39.520 --> 06:47:43.409 fulfilled that then we fulfilled our obligation under the 06:47:43.409 --> 06:47:45.319 statute there is no 06:47:45.319 --> 06:47:50.759 defect yeah I definitely understand that Mike Mike and 06:47:54.759 --> 06:47:58.310 there was an opportunity for a different case that required 06:47:58.310 --> 06:48:01.080 a public hearing as 06:48:01.080 --> 06:48:05.400 you know our notification process as it relates to zoning 06:48:05.400 --> 06:48:06.759 or ZBA cases only 06:48:06.759 --> 06:48:09.639 board of adjustment cases we have a 200 foot notification 06:48:09.639 --> 06:48:10.720 area we also have a 06:48:10.720 --> 06:48:14.229 500 foot enhanced notification area which goes directly to 06:48:14.229 --> 06:48:14.759 the property 06:48:14.759 --> 06:48:17.389 address and not to the property owner so that's why some 06:48:17.389 --> 06:48:18.520 people have received 06:48:18.520 --> 06:48:22.599 notices in the past which goes back to perhaps clarifying 06:48:22.599 --> 06:48:23.759 why the 200 foot 06:48:23.759 --> 06:48:26.669 notification wasn't received which is associated with the 06:48:26.669 --> 06:48:27.680 certified tax roll 06:48:27.680 --> 06:48:30.639 which comes out once a year in in August and then it takes 06:48:30.639 --> 06:48:31.680 some time for TS to 06:48:31.680 --> 06:48:35.389 then look at those shapefiles and modify them accordingly 06:48:35.389 --> 06:48:36.520 so I can I will still 06:48:36.520 --> 06:48:41.240 look into that to verify where that disconnect was there 06:48:41.240 --> 06:48:42.479 person that lives 06:48:42.479 --> 06:48:47.180 within 200 feet that did not receive a letter as well and 06:48:47.180 --> 06:48:47.560 what is their name so 06:48:47.560 --> 06:48:51.520 that we can have it for the record I'm sorry 06:48:53.840 --> 06:48:59.909 it's Brandon Poles at 508 El Paseo Street and we've 06:48:59.909 --> 06:49:01.360 actually applied for a 06:49:01.360 --> 06:49:05.479 ZBA before unfortunately our house burned down and we were 06:49:05.479 --> 06:49:06.080 gonna do a 06:49:06.080 --> 06:49:09.020 small modification on our pool house to add a bedroom we 06:49:09.020 --> 06:49:10.639 decided not to do that 06:49:10.639 --> 06:49:14.650 but anyway my point here is we received all the mailings 06:49:14.650 --> 06:49:16.119 for that so I know a 06:49:16.119 --> 06:49:19.340 hundred percent that you'll have the correct address to do 06:49:19.340 --> 06:49:20.279 that because we 06:49:20.279 --> 06:49:23.069 received past notifications on our own property that we 06:49:23.069 --> 06:49:24.119 applied for I'm just 06:49:24.119 --> 06:49:27.009 concerned because we did not receive any notification of 06:49:27.009 --> 06:49:28.279 this except for you know 06:49:28.279 --> 06:49:31.439 a phone call from a neighbor last minute and you know we 06:49:31.439 --> 06:49:32.400 started digging into 06:49:32.400 --> 06:49:36.310 this today to try to figure out what's going on you didn't 06:49:36.310 --> 06:49:37.520 receive a certified 06:49:37.520 --> 06:49:41.080 or courtesy no you neither neither one and we have 06:49:41.080 --> 06:49:42.000 absolutely received them 06:49:42.000 --> 06:49:46.169 before there's multiple people in the neighborhood who have 06:49:46.169 --> 06:49:47.560 expressed this it's 06:49:47.560 --> 06:49:51.880 this wasn't just a one-person thing I know several people 06:49:51.880 --> 06:49:53.880 sent in in emails 06:49:53.880 --> 06:49:58.419 they were very very very upset that this was happening and 06:49:58.419 --> 06:49:59.959 this there they did 06:49:59.959 --> 06:50:04.009 not get letters and so I'm just asking for more time that's 06:50:04.009 --> 06:50:05.279 we just need we 06:50:05.279 --> 06:50:09.419 just needed a little more time it just wasn't it wasn't 06:50:09.419 --> 06:50:11.919 done right and so we 06:50:11.919 --> 06:50:19.159 just we're just kind of stuck well all I can say from a 06:50:19.159 --> 06:50:21.400 legal standpoint is that 06:50:21.400 --> 06:50:25.380 it's our mailing of the notice that allows it to be 06:50:25.380 --> 06:50:27.279 sufficient for legal 06:50:27.279 --> 06:50:33.349 purposes it's not the actual receipt of the notice 06:50:33.349 --> 06:50:35.159 unfortunately in this case 06:50:35.159 --> 06:50:38.409 we're dealing with a plat plat to have very strict 06:50:38.409 --> 06:50:40.520 timelines in normal cases 06:50:40.520 --> 06:50:44.389 normal cases you have 30 days in which you have to approve 06:50:44.389 --> 06:50:45.439 or deny a plat or 06:50:45.439 --> 06:50:50.520 it's it's deemed approved and we typically have an 06:50:50.520 --> 06:50:52.799 applicant waive those 06:50:52.799 --> 06:50:57.250 provisions on the face of the application they're consens 06:50:57.250 --> 06:50:59.200 ual if he does 06:50:59.200 --> 06:51:04.759 not agree to a move of this particular item then at which 06:51:04.759 --> 06:51:06.799 we did last time if 06:51:06.799 --> 06:51:09.459 you recall we got his consent on the record I would feel 06:51:09.459 --> 06:51:10.639 highly uncomfortable 06:51:10.639 --> 06:51:14.560 and I would have to recommend against postponing it again 06:51:14.560 --> 06:51:15.759 because of those 06:51:15.759 --> 06:51:20.529 strict timelines that are in place by statute another 06:51:20.529 --> 06:51:22.639 problem that we have is 06:51:22.639 --> 06:51:28.319 that and in response to the 212 014 provision and that 06:51:28.319 --> 06:51:29.040 keeps being thrown 06:51:29.040 --> 06:51:32.200 out there is a provision that states that we cannot amend 06:51:32.200 --> 06:51:33.000 or remove any 06:51:33.000 --> 06:51:36.229 restrictions and those are specifically plat notes that we 06:51:36.229 --> 06:51:37.279 would put on a plat 06:51:37.279 --> 06:51:41.090 that changed the nature of the restriction or say all 06:51:41.090 --> 06:51:42.439 restrictions are 06:51:42.439 --> 06:51:48.049 hereby removed the courts have are interpreted the properly 06:51:48.049 --> 06:51:50.240 platted lot 06:51:50.240 --> 06:51:56.310 that has gone in front of PNC Commission to not amend or 06:51:56.310 --> 06:51:57.119 remove those 06:51:57.119 --> 06:52:00.450 restrictions so it has been interpreted by a court of law 06:52:00.450 --> 06:52:01.599 that that particular 06:52:01.599 --> 06:52:05.709 provision doesn't apply in this case in this case we have 06:52:05.709 --> 06:52:06.680 very little 06:52:06.680 --> 06:52:10.180 discretion that the law provides us as and this is just for 06:52:10.180 --> 06:52:11.360 the benefit of all 06:52:11.360 --> 06:52:19.490 neighbors if we have a plat in front of us it's considered 06:52:19.490 --> 06:52:20.279 it was called a 06:52:20.279 --> 06:52:25.680 ministerial duty it is not a discretionary duty and what 06:52:25.680 --> 06:52:26.680 that means is 06:52:26.680 --> 06:52:31.220 that the law clearly spells out what the extent of our duty 06:52:31.220 --> 06:52:32.639 is in the statute 06:52:32.639 --> 06:52:36.909 and what the statute says is that so long as a plat meets 06:52:36.909 --> 06:52:37.759 all of the 06:52:37.759 --> 06:52:41.930 technical requirements that are laid out in our code or the 06:52:41.930 --> 06:52:44.279 statute then we more 06:52:44.279 --> 06:52:48.250 or less have to approve it there is no discretion the 06:52:48.250 --> 06:52:49.840 purpose of it going in 06:52:49.840 --> 06:52:54.130 front of this body is to review what staff has already 06:52:54.130 --> 06:52:55.759 looked at to determine 06:52:55.759 --> 06:52:59.659 that staff was correct and that it meets the technical 06:52:59.659 --> 06:53:03.639 requirements I did as a 06:53:03.639 --> 06:53:08.069 courtesy look at your restrictive covenants and in my 06:53:08.069 --> 06:53:09.400 opinion and what 06:53:09.400 --> 06:53:13.049 I've and of course I can't give you all legal advice but I 06:53:13.049 --> 06:53:14.919 did advise the board 06:53:14.919 --> 06:53:17.340 and I did it in open session I could have done it in closed 06:53:17.340 --> 06:53:18.040 session but I 06:53:18.040 --> 06:53:21.619 wanted everybody to be aware of what we had determined and 06:53:21.619 --> 06:53:22.639 looking at your 06:53:22.639 --> 06:53:26.279 restrictive covenants the way mr. Ebersol reads them is not 06:53:26.279 --> 06:53:26.919 the way that 06:53:26.919 --> 06:53:30.729 I read them the way that I read them is that so long as you 06:53:30.729 --> 06:53:32.040 end up with two lots 06:53:32.040 --> 06:53:37.779 that are meeting those 150 feet and I think it was the one 06:53:37.779 --> 06:53:39.040 acre requirements 06:53:39.040 --> 06:53:42.470 that so long as each lot meets those requirements that it 06:53:42.470 --> 06:53:43.639 can be subdivided 06:53:43.639 --> 06:53:47.810 and I think that the way the statutory construction works 06:53:47.810 --> 06:53:49.360 that any court of law 06:53:49.360 --> 06:53:53.319 is going to find that as well as far as the residential 06:53:53.319 --> 06:53:54.880 requirement that's been 06:53:54.880 --> 06:53:58.270 brought up and I might as well just go ahead and continue 06:53:58.270 --> 06:53:59.319 since I'm on on this 06:53:59.319 --> 06:54:05.389 role the only thing that would affect that would be the 06:54:05.389 --> 06:54:06.319 zoning of the property 06:54:06.319 --> 06:54:09.259 because we have no control over what people actually build 06:54:09.259 --> 06:54:10.000 or not build on 06:54:10.000 --> 06:54:13.779 their property if we if he has the ability to build a 06:54:13.779 --> 06:54:15.479 single-family dwelling 06:54:15.479 --> 06:54:18.209 which we're not changing the zoning then that's out of our 06:54:18.209 --> 06:54:18.680 hands you know 06:54:18.680 --> 06:54:21.639 somebody could come in and fill in the floodplain and 06:54:21.639 --> 06:54:22.880 decide to build something 06:54:22.880 --> 06:54:26.319 at a later time of course it would have to come back but 06:54:26.319 --> 06:54:28.840 that's not us affecting 06:54:28.840 --> 06:54:34.220 the restrictions at all and so in my opinion none of this 06:54:34.220 --> 06:54:35.400 violated your 06:54:35.400 --> 06:54:39.659 restrictive covenants anyway but regardless of that we can 06:54:39.659 --> 06:54:40.279 't look at 06:54:40.279 --> 06:54:43.799 those and we can't enforce them and as a body as the 06:54:43.799 --> 06:54:46.400 government body what we do 06:54:46.400 --> 06:54:49.689 have to do is we have to exercise our limited authority to 06:54:49.689 --> 06:54:50.520 determine whether 06:54:50.520 --> 06:54:53.439 or not technical requirements have been met for the plat so 06:54:53.439 --> 06:54:54.360 that's what we're 06:54:54.360 --> 06:55:00.220 tasked with here today we haven't been able to see what it 06:55:00.220 --> 06:55:00.919 looked with the plat 06:55:00.919 --> 06:55:03.889 even looks like and the measurements to see if we think 06:55:03.889 --> 06:55:05.159 that so we just really 06:55:05.159 --> 06:55:08.909 needed to have more time yeah I think it's on the online is 06:55:08.909 --> 06:55:09.360 it not yeah the 06:55:09.360 --> 06:55:12.849 plan is available with the meeting at the agenda of the 06:55:12.849 --> 06:55:15.000 meeting if you if you 06:55:15.000 --> 06:55:18.919 go to the agenda for this meeting you can click on a link 06:55:18.919 --> 06:55:20.000 the link to download 06:55:20.000 --> 06:55:24.840 the plot all of our even we were asking about how to get 06:55:24.840 --> 06:55:25.720 the plat and they told 06:55:25.720 --> 06:55:29.229 us it would take ten days that's what I'm saying it just it 06:55:29.229 --> 06:55:30.599 's been so rushy I 06:55:30.599 --> 06:55:34.080 just feel like we just have not been able to have enough 06:55:34.080 --> 06:55:35.080 time to get together 06:55:35.080 --> 06:55:38.569 and and resolve this issue it's just and it's late and it 06:55:38.569 --> 06:55:39.639 just seems like 06:55:39.639 --> 06:55:43.240 everything that we go to do we just keep getting a negative 06:55:43.240 --> 06:55:44.400 you just keep hitting 06:55:44.400 --> 06:55:46.729 these negative things and we're just trying to come to a 06:55:46.729 --> 06:55:47.400 very positive 06:55:47.400 --> 06:55:51.040 neighborly happy solution we were hopeful that you were 06:55:51.040 --> 06:55:52.040 able to do that 06:55:52.040 --> 06:55:55.900 the last time we postponed it and and I'm sorry that you 06:55:55.900 --> 06:55:57.400 weren't able to get a 06:55:57.400 --> 06:56:01.509 resolution I feel like we're boxed in here legally and that 06:56:01.509 --> 06:56:02.959 we have a time 06:56:02.959 --> 06:56:06.569 frame problem and so I don't think that we're going to be 06:56:06.569 --> 06:56:07.919 able to postpone it 06:56:07.919 --> 06:56:12.700 again now if any of you do have a problem with some of the 06:56:12.700 --> 06:56:13.119 technical 06:56:13.119 --> 06:56:16.369 requirements that like we said you can bring it forward but 06:56:16.369 --> 06:56:17.959 the restrictive 06:56:17.959 --> 06:56:24.029 covenant we cannot we cannot even really discuss it so I do 06:56:24.029 --> 06:56:25.279 have some additional 06:56:25.279 --> 06:56:29.200 commissioners do you all have questions or okay 06:56:29.200 --> 06:56:30.799 Commissioner Sullivan thank you 06:56:30.799 --> 06:56:33.240 I and I think my question may have been answered I was 06:56:33.240 --> 06:56:35.080 gonna ask you or someone 06:56:35.080 --> 06:56:38.759 you know what is the minimum size lots in that neighborhood 06:56:38.759 --> 06:56:39.560 well apparently 06:56:39.560 --> 06:56:44.259 according to the covenants it's one acre what can arguably 06:56:44.259 --> 06:56:46.240 be one acre but on that 06:56:46.240 --> 06:56:49.939 entire section there are about two and a half to three 06:56:49.939 --> 06:56:51.279 acres nothing is smaller 06:56:51.279 --> 06:56:56.400 than that be the one oddball sized one acre floodplain lot 06:56:56.400 --> 06:56:57.520 there it just doesn't 06:56:57.520 --> 06:57:00.720 make sense is what I'm saying and like I said I'm not 06:57:00.720 --> 06:57:02.119 saying that anybody is is 06:57:02.119 --> 06:57:05.979 up to anything funny or anything like that I just don't 06:57:05.979 --> 06:57:06.880 know what would happen 06:57:06.880 --> 06:57:09.889 as time goes on then what would happen and it's in a very 06:57:09.889 --> 06:57:10.880 vulnerable position 06:57:10.880 --> 06:57:15.049 because they're not on the lake and so if if they don't 06:57:15.049 --> 06:57:16.520 want the responsibility 06:57:16.520 --> 06:57:19.680 then just to sell the whole property is what I'm saying it 06:57:19.680 --> 06:57:20.959 's just it's just a 06:57:20.959 --> 06:57:24.119 putting it in a bad spot let me give you some unsolicited 06:57:24.119 --> 06:57:25.959 advice from someone who 06:57:25.959 --> 06:57:32.439 just finished in a neighborhood squabble that is 06:57:32.439 --> 06:57:36.799 specifically outlined in law and 06:57:36.799 --> 06:57:40.790 after five years four judges and a total of almost a 06:57:40.790 --> 06:57:42.799 million dollars in legal 06:57:42.799 --> 06:57:46.130 fees you don't want to bring a lawyer into this 06:57:46.130 --> 06:57:48.319 neighborhood squabble y'all 06:57:48.319 --> 06:57:52.490 need to settle it on your own because no good things is 06:57:52.490 --> 06:57:53.520 gonna come out of the 06:57:53.520 --> 06:57:56.790 lawsuit trust me that's that's why I've just if we could 06:57:56.790 --> 06:57:57.680 just have a little more 06:57:57.680 --> 06:58:00.619 time to just be able to get that and to sit down and work 06:58:00.619 --> 06:58:02.119 it out together I just 06:58:02.119 --> 06:58:05.310 think that would just be the best solution commissioner 06:58:05.310 --> 06:58:05.919 Ellis do you have 06:58:05.919 --> 06:58:09.450 any questions thank you vice chair I have a question I 06:58:09.450 --> 06:58:11.000 guess just real quick for 06:58:11.000 --> 06:58:15.209 staff going back to notification in that question with 06:58:15.209 --> 06:58:16.720 regard to this particular 06:58:16.720 --> 06:58:21.040 property are we where are we starting that that that making 06:58:21.040 --> 06:58:22.639 that circle of 200 06:58:22.639 --> 06:58:28.759 feet at their address right and I think that might be worse 06:58:28.759 --> 06:58:29.799 for you so you you 06:58:29.799 --> 06:58:41.200 can you have an opportunity to look at that thanks I 06:58:41.200 --> 06:58:42.720 actually don't have that 06:58:42.720 --> 06:58:45.040 map available because I don't think I can access the s 06:58:45.040 --> 06:58:46.240 drive from here but I can 06:58:46.240 --> 06:58:49.680 inform you it was I think it's mentioned in your backup I 06:58:49.680 --> 06:58:51.319 believe it was 133 06:58:51.319 --> 06:58:55.750 notices were sent and we kind of conservatively interpret 06:58:55.750 --> 06:58:56.720 what state law 06:58:56.720 --> 06:59:00.919 requires which is the original subdivision be notified as 06:59:00.919 --> 06:59:01.959 well as 200 06:59:01.959 --> 06:59:04.610 feet around the property what we do is the original subdiv 06:59:04.610 --> 06:59:05.919 ision plus a 200 foot 06:59:05.919 --> 06:59:09.299 buffer around the subdivision boundaries so that's where we 06:59:09.299 --> 06:59:10.040 came up with that 06:59:10.040 --> 06:59:13.759 hundred and thirty three notices and those do go to the 06:59:13.759 --> 06:59:15.080 certified based on 06:59:15.080 --> 06:59:17.450 the certified tax roll to the property owner that we have 06:59:17.450 --> 06:59:18.639 on record right in is 06:59:18.639 --> 06:59:22.209 it it's from their address which is the Santa Monica 06:59:22.209 --> 06:59:23.919 address or because I think 06:59:23.919 --> 06:59:28.060 maybe some confusion with with with just is coming from 06:59:28.060 --> 06:59:29.840 where this this replat is 06:59:29.840 --> 06:59:34.680 on that corner on Alpacaio which would not have been your 06:59:34.680 --> 06:59:35.560 buffer I don't think 06:59:35.560 --> 06:59:38.400 no sending it out it would have been the address on Santa 06:59:38.400 --> 06:59:40.000 Monica right the 06:59:40.000 --> 06:59:42.380 buffer is formed from the subdivision boundary so that 06:59:42.380 --> 06:59:43.400 original Montecito 06:59:43.400 --> 06:59:46.349 subdivision that was shown up here earlier we put the 200 06:59:46.349 --> 06:59:47.360 foot buffer around 06:59:47.360 --> 06:59:54.680 that that is all of the cards I have that wish to speak if 06:59:54.680 --> 06:59:55.400 anybody else in 06:59:55.400 --> 06:59:59.540 the audience would wish to speak in favor or against please 06:59:59.540 --> 07:00:02.159 come forward now 07:00:03.240 --> 07:00:07.240 if anybody else would like to speak please come forward now 07:00:07.240 --> 07:00:08.560 and state your 07:00:08.560 --> 07:00:11.250 name and address and then fill out a blue card after you've 07:00:11.250 --> 07:00:12.560 spoken sure so 07:00:12.560 --> 07:00:16.549 again I'm Brandon Bulls at 508 Alpacaio Street I'm just 07:00:16.549 --> 07:00:17.840 gonna be real brief I 07:00:17.840 --> 07:00:21.790 don't need four minutes I'm just gonna ask y'all you know 07:00:21.790 --> 07:00:22.959 as a planning and 07:00:22.959 --> 07:00:26.950 zoning board to look at this situation a lot is being 07:00:26.950 --> 07:00:28.919 broken up that's for a dam 07:00:28.919 --> 07:00:33.919 and that dam is being sold that affects several neighbors 07:00:33.919 --> 07:00:35.159 and I don't know if 07:00:35.159 --> 07:00:37.680 any of you have really just looked at this on maybe a 07:00:37.680 --> 07:00:38.720 Google Earth view to 07:00:38.720 --> 07:00:42.549 understand this map or how much time you spent on this you 07:00:42.549 --> 07:00:43.680 know I'm sure you 07:00:43.680 --> 07:00:45.569 spent time on it I appreciate that I was at the earlier 07:00:45.569 --> 07:00:47.319 planning session but it 07:00:47.319 --> 07:00:50.540 just kind of amazes me that we ended up in this situation 07:00:50.540 --> 07:00:52.040 with neighbors arguing 07:00:52.040 --> 07:00:57.000 over what shouldn't be an issue how does a dam get owned by 07:00:57.000 --> 07:00:58.479 one individual that 07:00:58.479 --> 07:01:02.080 affects so many people so what I would ask you tonight is 07:01:02.080 --> 07:01:04.639 please be thinking 07:01:04.639 --> 07:01:07.990 about that in future developments and planning and zoning 07:01:07.990 --> 07:01:09.040 to make sure this 07:01:09.040 --> 07:01:12.200 never happens again because it's just it's a really bad 07:01:12.200 --> 07:01:15.560 situation you know I 07:01:15.560 --> 07:01:19.840 think the buyer has the best of intentions hopefully he'll 07:01:19.840 --> 07:01:20.680 you know do 07:01:20.680 --> 07:01:24.400 wonderful things with the property but it just kind of amaz 07:01:24.400 --> 07:01:25.599 es me that we're in 07:01:25.599 --> 07:01:29.200 the situation and how we got here it's pretty unbelievable 07:01:29.200 --> 07:01:30.479 and talking with 07:01:30.479 --> 07:01:34.069 planning and zoning today you know that's the staff agreed 07:01:34.069 --> 07:01:35.119 with the people 07:01:35.119 --> 07:01:38.590 I talked to that it's kind of crazy that one person owns 07:01:38.590 --> 07:01:39.880 the dam that affects so 07:01:39.880 --> 07:01:42.830 many people so anyway thank you for time I do appreciate 07:01:42.830 --> 07:01:44.119 you'll stay in like thank 07:01:44.119 --> 07:01:51.740 you is there anybody else that would like to speak we we've 07:01:51.740 --> 07:01:54.720 already received 07:01:54.720 --> 07:02:09.119 your input unless there's a question for for you I'm sorry 07:02:09.119 --> 07:02:11.759 so I do have I do have 07:02:11.759 --> 07:02:14.990 numerous cards that did not wish to speak I have one that 07:02:14.990 --> 07:02:16.080 has a comment and 07:02:16.080 --> 07:02:23.439 the rest I'll read in his account Jane Piper Lunt at 42 11 07:02:23.439 --> 07:02:26.799 north I 35 is did 07:02:26.799 --> 07:02:30.799 not wish to speak is in opposition and wrote that this is 07:02:30.799 --> 07:02:31.520 not in keeping with 07:02:31.520 --> 07:02:35.060 the neighborhood and traffic problems that might have been 07:02:35.060 --> 07:02:36.919 for the other case 07:02:36.919 --> 07:02:46.459 I do have three cards that did not wish to speak in support 07:02:46.459 --> 07:02:50.119 and 11 cards that 07:02:50.119 --> 07:02:55.330 did not wish to speak in opposition and if anybody else 07:02:55.330 --> 07:02:57.240 would like to speak on 07:02:57.240 --> 07:03:01.250 this matter please come forward now please come to the 07:03:01.250 --> 07:03:02.319 microphone and state 07:03:02.319 --> 07:03:07.349 your name and address and then fill out a blue card I have 07:03:07.349 --> 07:03:07.560 laryngitis so I can't 07:03:07.560 --> 07:03:12.840 talk very loud we just wanted to understand to the council 07:03:12.840 --> 07:03:13.680 could we 07:03:13.680 --> 07:03:20.720 request another date if we chose to to extend this you 07:03:20.720 --> 07:03:27.799 could withdraw it and 07:03:27.799 --> 07:03:41.080 refile it does anybody else wish to speak seeing nobody 07:03:41.080 --> 07:03:41.599 else wishing to 07:03:41.599 --> 07:03:45.040 speak we will close the public hearing 07:03:45.759 --> 07:03:51.000 Commissioner Roselle I'll keep this brief because it's one 07:03:51.000 --> 07:03:51.639 o'clock in the 07:03:51.639 --> 07:03:54.069 morning but I just wanted to go on record to thank everyone 07:03:54.069 --> 07:03:54.599 for coming out 07:03:54.599 --> 07:03:57.409 it's really unfortunate and it's frustrating to me as a 07:03:57.409 --> 07:03:58.360 commissioner just 07:03:58.360 --> 07:04:01.349 lets you know that this is a public hearing item in which 07:04:01.349 --> 07:04:02.080 you have the 07:04:02.080 --> 07:04:05.630 ability to speak your opinions and your thoughts about the 07:04:05.630 --> 07:04:07.040 issue yet as a 07:04:07.040 --> 07:04:10.869 commission it's a ministerial act and we have as legal has 07:04:10.869 --> 07:04:11.479 said we have no 07:04:11.479 --> 07:04:16.119 discretion on the matter and so I I'd surely hope that mr. 07:04:16.119 --> 07:04:17.680 Nelms protects the 07:04:17.680 --> 07:04:19.779 dam for the sake of the neighborhood I grew up in the 07:04:19.779 --> 07:04:20.880 neighborhood and so I'd 07:04:20.880 --> 07:04:25.270 love to see that pond persist but I just want to before a 07:04:25.270 --> 07:04:27.880 vote happens that seems 07:04:27.880 --> 07:04:30.689 to happen into the affirmative this evening to thank you 07:04:30.689 --> 07:04:31.919 for coming out we 07:04:31.919 --> 07:04:35.549 have heard you and we appreciate the feedback regardless of 07:04:35.549 --> 07:04:36.720 our ability to 07:04:36.720 --> 07:04:42.880 actually act upon it Commissioner Beck thank you both here 07:04:42.880 --> 07:04:44.040 and I too want to 07:04:44.040 --> 07:04:47.599 thank you're wanting to come out and staying up with us we 07:04:47.599 --> 07:04:48.639 were commended for 07:04:48.639 --> 07:04:52.639 staying up but it you guys have been here as long as we 07:04:52.639 --> 07:04:53.639 have I think all of us 07:04:53.639 --> 07:04:56.299 here on the commission were disappointed that we're seeing 07:04:56.299 --> 07:04:57.240 y'all again we were 07:04:57.240 --> 07:05:00.619 hoping this would get resolved too so again as Commissioner 07:05:00.619 --> 07:05:01.680 Rizel said despite 07:05:01.680 --> 07:05:09.319 where this goes we hope that some satisfactory completion 07:05:09.319 --> 07:05:09.880 comes to this 07:05:09.880 --> 07:05:15.119 without court cases or anything like that 07:05:18.639 --> 07:05:34.860 Commissioner Hudson move approval item fr 16 - 0 0 we haven 07:05:34.860 --> 07:05:35.759 't closed the public 07:05:35.759 --> 07:05:48.619 hearing yet did you okay I'm sorry I move Devon closes up 07:05:48.619 --> 07:05:52.880 so no I so I move we we approve fr 16 0 2 0 0 2 3 a 07:05:53.240 --> 07:05:57.069 because in ministerially that's the only thing to do we 07:05:57.069 --> 07:05:58.680 have a motion do we have 07:05:58.680 --> 07:06:14.599 a second Commissioner Beck because I reluctantly say I 07:06:14.599 --> 07:06:15.560 understand the problem 07:06:15.560 --> 07:06:20.689 here but yes I second the motion we have a motion and a 07:06:20.689 --> 07:06:22.159 second is there any 07:06:22.159 --> 07:06:27.240 further discussion Commissioner Ellis thank you vice-chair 07:06:27.240 --> 07:06:28.560 just real quick 07:06:28.560 --> 07:06:32.389 thank you everybody for your input it does feel like our 07:06:32.389 --> 07:06:33.799 hands are tied here 07:06:33.799 --> 07:06:38.029 with with what council has told us and and I wish that wasn 07:06:38.029 --> 07:06:39.520 't the case and and 07:06:39.520 --> 07:06:43.119 I wish you going forward in the future that you will all 07:06:43.119 --> 07:06:44.119 continue to be 07:06:44.119 --> 07:06:51.270 neighbors and and to work together and I would like to say 07:06:51.270 --> 07:06:54.119 in a to address mr. 07:06:54.119 --> 07:07:00.189 Bell's comment bulls comment in probably the last 30 years 07:07:00.189 --> 07:07:01.319 this type of thing 07:07:01.319 --> 07:07:03.880 would not not have been allowed we as you might have seen 07:07:03.880 --> 07:07:04.880 earlier tonight we 07:07:04.880 --> 07:07:07.330 had an ADP and there was this detention pond it was 07:07:07.330 --> 07:07:09.180 community lot and that's a 07:07:09.180 --> 07:07:12.340 really common thing in subdivisions now there will be and 07:07:12.340 --> 07:07:13.400 the city won't even 07:07:13.400 --> 07:07:17.759 allow a community a lot unless there is an HOA or some 07:07:17.759 --> 07:07:19.880 owner that will that has 07:07:19.880 --> 07:07:23.590 clear responsibility to maintain it you know this subdiv 07:07:23.590 --> 07:07:25.200 ision is 50 plus years 07:07:25.200 --> 07:07:28.360 old you know and it and I don't know who I don't know if 07:07:28.360 --> 07:07:28.919 they originally built 07:07:28.919 --> 07:07:31.000 the lakes or the lakes were already there whenever they 07:07:31.000 --> 07:07:33.080 built the subdivision but 07:07:33.080 --> 07:07:37.040 this was an artifact of the history and you know a city 07:07:37.040 --> 07:07:38.220 that at the time 07:07:38.220 --> 07:07:42.689 probably was was barely a town or you know as a small town 07:07:42.689 --> 07:07:44.720 and so today this 07:07:44.720 --> 07:07:47.369 type of thing wouldn't happen the entire lake would be an 07:07:47.369 --> 07:07:48.439 HOA lot and all of y'all 07:07:48.439 --> 07:07:50.650 would be members of the HOA and responsible for maintaining 07:07:50.650 --> 07:07:51.720 it and I 07:07:51.720 --> 07:07:55.479 don't know if there would be some way that y'all could get 07:07:55.479 --> 07:07:56.680 to that point or if 07:07:56.680 --> 07:08:00.229 that's something you desire you know it's it's beyond us it 07:08:00.229 --> 07:08:00.799 'd have to be 07:08:00.799 --> 07:08:05.290 something the entire community decides to do together we 07:08:05.290 --> 07:08:06.799 have a motion in a 07:08:06.799 --> 07:08:11.060 second and I don't think we can vote on the board so we'll 07:08:11.060 --> 07:08:12.959 vote by show of hands 07:08:12.959 --> 07:08:21.770 all in favor please write raise your right hand how do I do 07:08:21.770 --> 07:08:25.279 motion carries 07:08:25.279 --> 07:08:35.040 6-0 and one recusal and one recusal our next item on our 07:08:35.040 --> 07:08:37.639 agenda is our planning 07:08:37.639 --> 07:08:43.709 and zoning Commission matrix do we have any updates 07:08:43.709 --> 07:08:47.080 Commissioner Ellis okay not 07:08:47.080 --> 07:08:49.799 that anyone wants to talk matrix right now but it's the 07:08:49.799 --> 07:08:51.080 right night to bring up 07:08:51.080 --> 07:08:57.150 this topic which is can we start some discussion over city 07:08:57.150 --> 07:08:59.919 initiated zoning I 07:08:59.919 --> 07:09:04.349 don't want another lot like we had to deal with and I don't 07:09:04.349 --> 07:09:05.759 know if that's in 07:09:05.759 --> 07:09:12.430 a PNZ purview that we have that discussion so if you could 07:09:12.430 --> 07:09:13.959 if you're 07:09:13.959 --> 07:09:19.250 going to have a conversation could you move outside of the 07:09:19.250 --> 07:09:20.080 the hall 07:09:21.080 --> 07:09:27.319 we are still having our meeting if you have any additional 07:09:27.319 --> 07:09:28.200 discussion please 07:09:28.200 --> 07:09:31.080 move it to the hallway 07:09:33.560 --> 07:09:40.119 Commissioner Ellis shall I start that again okay I feel 07:09:40.119 --> 07:09:40.919 like this is the right 07:09:40.919 --> 07:09:45.349 night to bring this up a discussion on city initiated 07:09:45.349 --> 07:09:47.240 zoning so that we do not 07:09:47.240 --> 07:09:51.099 end up with a lot discussion like we did today on scripture 07:09:51.099 --> 07:09:52.479 Street so I don't know 07:09:52.479 --> 07:09:55.450 where that falls to us as PNZ if we can have that 07:09:55.450 --> 07:09:57.439 discussion but that's what I'm 07:09:57.439 --> 07:10:01.580 asking Commissioner Ellis if you recall I'm not sure if you 07:10:01.580 --> 07:10:02.759 recall I'm trying to 07:10:02.759 --> 07:10:06.229 verify we have created a PNZ subcommittee that is 07:10:06.229 --> 07:10:08.520 responsible for city initiated 07:10:08.520 --> 07:10:13.060 zoning review and application there were three cases that 07:10:13.060 --> 07:10:14.779 or maybe four that the 07:10:14.779 --> 07:10:19.139 committee was amenable to moving forward the council at 07:10:19.139 --> 07:10:20.599 that point had some 07:10:20.599 --> 07:10:25.360 questions and was keen to have a joint session with the PNZ 07:10:25.360 --> 07:10:26.279 or slash this sub 07:10:26.279 --> 07:10:31.270 committee and what I will do is I will visit and discern 07:10:31.270 --> 07:10:32.279 where that is on the 07:10:32.279 --> 07:10:38.369 schedule with them I believe it got pushed out but we we 07:10:38.369 --> 07:10:40.360 can definitely 07:10:40.360 --> 07:10:43.700 reinitiate for the lack of a better word and start working 07:10:43.700 --> 07:10:44.919 on this and come back 07:10:44.919 --> 07:10:47.930 with some of the program priorities we had actually 07:10:47.930 --> 07:10:49.520 presented some items that 07:10:49.520 --> 07:10:56.060 were relatively simple consolidation of zoning and I think 07:10:56.060 --> 07:10:57.959 it would this would 07:10:57.959 --> 07:11:00.799 be a good opportunity to use those once again as an example 07:11:00.799 --> 07:11:02.080 we did have a work 07:11:02.080 --> 07:11:05.549 session with City Council explaining to them what this 07:11:05.549 --> 07:11:07.159 committee does what its 07:11:07.159 --> 07:11:11.020 intent is and what the intent of city initiated zoning was 07:11:11.020 --> 07:11:12.200 the council felt 07:11:12.200 --> 07:11:16.020 that they needed a little more time to digest the 07:11:16.020 --> 07:11:17.919 information but I will 07:11:17.919 --> 07:11:21.419 definitely come back to the Commission with some answers on 07:11:21.419 --> 07:11:23.040 this okay if I may 07:11:23.040 --> 07:11:26.299 so is that subcommittee still active you mean that yes it 07:11:26.299 --> 07:11:27.720 is in existence yes it 07:11:27.720 --> 07:11:32.270 is I believe Commissioner Roselle we suspended the meetings 07:11:32.270 --> 07:11:32.560 we've just 07:11:32.560 --> 07:11:36.310 suspended pending outcome of what council decided on the 07:11:36.310 --> 07:11:38.279 the first properties and 07:11:38.279 --> 07:11:41.939 they determined that we would not go forward on properties 07:11:41.939 --> 07:11:43.040 unless they were 07:11:43.040 --> 07:11:48.159 consented to by the owner I had one more thing if I'm still 07:11:48.159 --> 07:11:53.040 on the clock okay is 07:11:53.040 --> 07:11:59.380 there any room for PNZ to discuss SROs at any time because 07:11:59.380 --> 07:12:00.560 clearly this is 07:12:00.560 --> 07:12:03.900 coming up time and time again because it's the development 07:12:03.900 --> 07:12:05.520 de jour it's going 07:12:05.520 --> 07:12:10.279 to keep happening it's commissionerless the City Council 07:12:10.279 --> 07:12:11.520 had requested the 07:12:11.520 --> 07:12:15.950 planning division to review or discern or have discussion 07:12:15.950 --> 07:12:17.319 at work session about 07:12:17.319 --> 07:12:23.659 SROs we did provide some information to the council as it 07:12:23.659 --> 07:12:25.040 relates to definition 07:12:25.040 --> 07:12:28.479 of their SROs as it relates to benchmarking in other 07:12:28.479 --> 07:12:29.000 communities 07:12:29.000 --> 07:12:33.430 especially in college towns as it relates to SROs and we 07:12:33.430 --> 07:12:35.680 also provided some draft 07:12:35.680 --> 07:12:41.750 language that would have more restriction or have 07:12:41.750 --> 07:12:43.520 restrictions associated with it 07:12:43.520 --> 07:12:46.680 as it relates to development at that time at work session 07:12:46.680 --> 07:12:47.599 the City Council 07:12:47.599 --> 07:12:51.689 directed that perhaps the issue is more likely attached to 07:12:51.689 --> 07:12:52.840 the development 07:12:52.840 --> 07:12:55.099 criterion the multifamily development standards as it 07:12:55.099 --> 07:12:56.080 relates to the parking 07:12:56.080 --> 07:12:59.810 ratio requirements building heights basically massing of 07:12:59.810 --> 07:13:02.720 the structure and 07:13:02.720 --> 07:13:06.919 based on that outcome they we presented back at work 07:13:06.919 --> 07:13:08.799 session with City Council I 07:13:08.799 --> 07:13:15.430 would say at the most one month back and we provided some 07:13:15.430 --> 07:13:17.200 added information as it 07:13:17.200 --> 07:13:20.540 relates to the core of downtown which is your DR2s your DCG 07:13:20.540 --> 07:13:21.720 's your DCN zoning 07:13:21.720 --> 07:13:25.250 districts which is really what you've seen at tonight's 07:13:25.250 --> 07:13:27.439 discussion to requiring 07:13:27.439 --> 07:13:33.000 a specific use permit for any multifamily development 07:13:33.000 --> 07:13:34.279 within those 07:13:34.279 --> 07:13:36.900 zoning districts especially the core and given the small 07:13:36.900 --> 07:13:38.159 area plan initiative and 07:13:38.159 --> 07:13:44.229 given the historic districts that we have we received a 07:13:44.229 --> 07:13:46.200 favorable it was a 07:13:46.200 --> 07:13:48.430 very favorable discussion in the sense it was very positive 07:13:48.430 --> 07:13:49.599 and productive and 07:13:49.599 --> 07:13:52.759 council has now directed that we proceed with an ordinance 07:13:52.759 --> 07:13:54.799 for that because that 07:13:54.799 --> 07:13:57.330 is an amendment to the Denton Development Code it is a dual 07:13:57.330 --> 07:13:57.759 public 07:13:57.759 --> 07:14:02.209 hearing process so we have to initiate that and that item 07:14:02.209 --> 07:14:03.560 will be coming before 07:14:03.560 --> 07:14:07.799 you we actually decided to do a work session with you first 07:14:07.799 --> 07:14:09.240 however I am 07:14:09.240 --> 07:14:11.680 going to pull the Commission now if I have that opportunity 07:14:11.680 --> 07:14:12.400 if you would 07:14:12.400 --> 07:14:14.819 prefer we can actually do the public the work session and 07:14:14.819 --> 07:14:15.840 the public hearing on 07:14:15.840 --> 07:14:22.610 the same date to to move a little faster opposed to doing a 07:14:22.610 --> 07:14:23.919 work session and then 07:14:23.919 --> 07:14:27.849 coming back with public hearings so if you choose you know 07:14:27.849 --> 07:14:29.200 if you want to give 07:14:29.200 --> 07:14:32.849 me direction and say let's proceed and do the item I 07:14:32.849 --> 07:14:34.639 received direction yes 07:14:34.639 --> 07:14:38.200 super okay so we'll go ahead and do the notification 07:14:38.200 --> 07:14:39.119 procedure and just bring it 07:14:39.119 --> 07:14:44.680 to the to the put it placed on it on a very near pansy and 07:14:44.680 --> 07:14:46.720 if you could slip in 07:14:46.720 --> 07:14:51.909 a definition of dorm that includes SROs or any place where 07:14:51.909 --> 07:14:52.720 we would have to change 07:14:52.720 --> 07:14:56.529 that rooms are leased separately from kitchen collegiate 07:14:56.529 --> 07:14:57.720 housing collegiate 07:14:57.720 --> 07:15:00.560 housing dormitory something along those lines like some 07:15:00.560 --> 07:15:01.360 definition like that 07:15:01.360 --> 07:15:05.119 that would be wonderful what we what we can do is and 07:15:05.119 --> 07:15:06.720 provide some draft 07:15:06.720 --> 07:15:09.509 language which the planning and zoning Commission is 07:15:09.509 --> 07:15:11.119 welcome to then recommend 07:15:11.119 --> 07:15:16.330 that that be incorporated in the language Commissioner 07:15:16.330 --> 07:15:18.400 Hudson so real 07:15:18.400 --> 07:15:21.369 quick I just want to follow back up on Commissioner Rozelle 07:15:21.369 --> 07:15:22.200 's question about 07:15:22.200 --> 07:15:26.700 historic markers that fee the $200 fee or whatever and we 07:15:26.700 --> 07:15:27.639 're going to look at 07:15:27.639 --> 07:15:31.759 maybe what goes into that and potentially waiving that 07:15:31.759 --> 07:15:32.840 because all the 07:15:32.840 --> 07:15:35.830 other work they do with that and so can we get a can we 07:15:35.830 --> 07:15:37.520 kick that around at some 07:15:37.520 --> 07:15:41.840 point in the future Commissioner Hatsbeth and Commissioner 07:15:41.840 --> 07:15:46.389 Rozelle we do have that we have an application fee which as 07:15:46.389 --> 07:15:47.080 it relates to 07:15:47.080 --> 07:15:50.569 historic landmark designation in the public hearing 07:15:50.569 --> 07:15:52.240 processes obviously 07:15:52.240 --> 07:15:55.400 having a historic landmark designation is indeed a positive 07:15:55.400 --> 07:15:56.400 attribute that you 07:15:56.400 --> 07:15:59.889 know we should look upon favorably I would like to add that 07:15:59.889 --> 07:16:01.279 we are hopeful in 07:16:01.279 --> 07:16:04.000 the very near future to address our fee schedule because 07:16:04.000 --> 07:16:05.000 our fee schedule is 07:16:05.000 --> 07:16:08.169 adopted by ordinance that fee is referenced in there we 07:16:08.169 --> 07:16:09.319 were hopeful to 07:16:09.319 --> 07:16:12.750 actually do a cost-benefit analysis on all the fees that we 07:16:12.750 --> 07:16:13.880 have and possibly 07:16:13.880 --> 07:16:17.049 look at potentially eliminating or reducing the fee 07:16:17.049 --> 07:16:18.400 associated with that 07:16:18.400 --> 07:16:22.159 element or component hand-in-hand with that the historic 07:16:22.159 --> 07:16:23.400 preservation ordinance 07:16:23.400 --> 07:16:26.220 is we're looking at making some minor amendments to that 07:16:26.220 --> 07:16:27.159 from a procedural 07:16:27.159 --> 07:16:32.270 aspect so it will be a few months but I think we will be 07:16:32.270 --> 07:16:34.520 able to review and do 07:16:34.520 --> 07:16:38.430 an analysis on the fees and bring that forward before you 07:16:38.430 --> 07:16:39.000 as well 07:16:39.000 --> 07:16:43.040 Commissioner Beck last thing I was disappointed to hear 07:16:43.040 --> 07:16:43.479 that we're still 07:16:43.479 --> 07:16:46.069 having problems with notification issues I thought we had 07:16:46.069 --> 07:16:47.200 resolved it where they 07:16:47.200 --> 07:16:53.270 would go out to not only the address it's on the city rolls 07:16:53.270 --> 07:16:54.720 but to the actual 07:16:54.720 --> 07:16:59.189 address itself so there wouldn't so we're we again to talk 07:16:59.189 --> 07:17:00.279 about the 07:17:00.279 --> 07:17:02.720 notification we had conversation with the planning and 07:17:02.720 --> 07:17:03.720 zoning Commission we 07:17:03.720 --> 07:17:06.880 floated some draft ideas we talked about postcards we 07:17:06.880 --> 07:17:08.200 talked about refining the 07:17:08.200 --> 07:17:10.979 language there was quite there were some questions as it 07:17:10.979 --> 07:17:12.240 relates to the 07:17:12.240 --> 07:17:15.720 enhancement of the notification process can we do something 07:17:15.720 --> 07:17:16.880 with our technical 07:17:16.880 --> 07:17:23.799 tools and what have you we then presented we also prior to 07:17:23.799 --> 07:17:24.159 that had 07:17:24.159 --> 07:17:29.549 conversation with the City Council and the City Council has 07:17:29.549 --> 07:17:31.279 also requested that 07:17:31.279 --> 07:17:35.150 what can we do with the notification process I would like 07:17:35.150 --> 07:17:36.279 to add that we go 07:17:36.279 --> 07:17:38.849 above and beyond the state requirement right now as it 07:17:38.849 --> 07:17:40.080 relates to where and whom 07:17:40.080 --> 07:17:43.729 it goes to I will verify the tax roll issues and make sure 07:17:43.729 --> 07:17:44.560 that all that is 07:17:44.560 --> 07:17:47.819 current and and lean on another department we collaborate 07:17:47.819 --> 07:17:48.240 really well 07:17:48.240 --> 07:17:50.319 together so I'll lean on them and make sure we have the 07:17:50.319 --> 07:17:51.479 correct information I 07:17:51.479 --> 07:17:54.330 do anticipate that we will come back with some 07:17:54.330 --> 07:17:56.400 recommendation for the 500 07:17:56.400 --> 07:17:58.990 foot notification and perhaps use a postcard and also 07:17:58.990 --> 07:17:59.759 eliminate the 07:17:59.759 --> 07:18:02.650 certified mailing procedures as you know the certified 07:18:02.650 --> 07:18:03.959 mailing procedure it is 07:18:03.959 --> 07:18:06.040 cumbersome for a property owner to want to go to the post 07:18:06.040 --> 07:18:06.840 office and pick that 07:18:06.840 --> 07:18:10.830 up and it's also very expensive which you know we gave you 07:18:10.830 --> 07:18:12.119 an analysis on that 07:18:12.119 --> 07:18:17.240 so if you would bear with us we we will bring that to the 07:18:17.240 --> 07:18:19.080 forefront as well 07:18:19.080 --> 07:18:24.639 Commissioner Sullivan real quickly because I'm sleepy could 07:18:24.639 --> 07:18:25.680 you just simply 07:18:25.680 --> 07:18:32.040 add our current resident and just put on a postcard I mean 07:18:32.040 --> 07:18:33.279 I get junk mail all the time 07:18:33.279 --> 07:18:36.240 from the current residents. Right and we'll bring that 07:18:36.240 --> 07:18:39.759 before you now we really do not need to codify anything as 07:18:39.759 --> 07:18:39.919 it 07:18:39.919 --> 07:18:42.709 relates with the notification procedure because that's 07:18:42.709 --> 07:18:44.599 already in play we will 07:18:44.599 --> 07:18:47.779 just refine tune or refine the language that comes that 07:18:47.779 --> 07:18:50.040 goes to the community so 07:18:50.040 --> 07:18:52.729 it wouldn't be any it's not a difficult task it's just 07:18:52.729 --> 07:18:54.040 something that we need to 07:18:54.040 --> 07:19:03.580 bring forward to you expeditiously. And with that we will 07:19:03.580 --> 07:19:05.439 end our planning and 07:19:05.439 --> 07:19:12.799 zoning meeting at 1 on March 9th. 07:19:14.720 --> 07:19:16.779 you