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meeting for February 22nd, 2017.

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We do have a quorum present and this meeting has been duly

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posted

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and I'm going to call our work session into order at 10

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after 5.

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And at this time I will turn it over to Manal for

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clarification of agendas.

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Thank you, Chairperson Strange.

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We do have four plots that are on the agenda.

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They're relatively straightforward.

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If there are any questions related to that we will call

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upon either Julie or Hayley to come and present those.

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Else we can dive into the other cases.

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Questions on the plaques?

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Super.

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The next item is a final replant.

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It does require a public hearing and it too is relatively

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straightforward.

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If there are any questions related to that we can go ahead

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and discuss it.

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If there are any questions of the Commission?

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Commissioner Beck.

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Thank you, Chair.

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Is this the Hale State?

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Correct.

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Okay.

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Super.

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I do have one question.

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Okay.

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Should I just ask?

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Yes, please.

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Okay.

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They're going to break this down into two different lots

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when I understand.

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I'm assuming that because there are issues with ESA and

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FEMA floodplain that nobody's going to be building on that

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particular lot, but they will be building on lot one.

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Is that?

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Hayley, why don't you walk through the plot and with your

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cursor for the audience also identify where those flood

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plain issues and ESA concerns are so we can explain that to

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the Commission and the audience.

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All right.

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Yes.

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So lot one, block B is already developed with a single

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family residence.

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Oh, okay.

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And they are splitting off lot two, block B. And as you can

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see it does have a sizable area of zone, I think it's AE,

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floodplain on it.

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So there is a drainage easement dedicated for that.

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As well we have this easement in the back for a reserve

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pump, I believe that's associated with the pond that is to

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the north of this property.

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And other than that it's relatively straightforward, but

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they would be required to follow subchapter 17 and 19

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development standards for being within the floodplain and

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an ESA, environmentally sensitive area.

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AE, is that a combination of zones or is that a single

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classification itself that deals with

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flooding over?

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It's a floodplain classification.

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By itself, just AE, not A through E.

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It's not a zoning designation.

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Okay.

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So is there room in this lot to build a single family home

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that won't conflict with what's there?

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Well, it depends on one, what their footprint is, two, are

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they, what their mitigation measures would be with the ESA

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if they were to choose to compromise the ESA,

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as it relates to the floodplain it would depend then on

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what it is they're proposing and it would go through the

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engineering department to make sure they don't compromise

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any of the requirements associated with that.

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Okay.

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At this time the request before you is purely to go ahead

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and create two lots of records.

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Okay.

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With no, no.

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At this point there is no, we have not been intimated as to

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what is being proposed.

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But the request is straightforward.

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It is not, it meets our technical requirements.

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Great.

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Thank you.

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Well, I'll follow up with a question.

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Can they actually build a lot or a house on that lot?

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I believe Earl is here.

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Earl, would you be able to guide us as to the floodplain

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ramifications or the zones rather?

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Earl asked for engineering.

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Lot two, the majority of lot two is really encumbered by

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this floodplain easement which begins here and ends here.

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So everything east or to the right of that line is all eas

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ement.

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So mainly your only developable area is this little

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triangular sliver here as is.

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Now however, you know, there is a potential that, you know,

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in the future somebody can come and reclaim floodplain

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through a Clomar and Lomar and such that.

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But right now as it is, as it stands, this is the only

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developable area that I see that's not encumbered by any

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easements or floodplain.

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Well, I guess that's kind of my question and maybe more

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just for information rather than anything else is the rest

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of the lot is clearly in the floodplain.

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I don't understand. I mean, I guess they can replat it if

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that's what they choose.

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But what the purpose is, if it's an unbuildable lot.

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We had the same questions and we spoke with legal and there

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is nothing in our code that says you cannot build a non-

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developable lot of zones that meets our minimum size

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requirements, area requirements.

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So there's a potential for reclamation and they choose to

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do that.

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Perhaps they'll want to sell it.

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We don't know, but at this point, as it relates to the

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technical requirements of subdividing the lot into two lots

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of record.

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Well, okay.

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I'm sorry to ask me a question.

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I have a lot of questions kind of living over in the

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neighborhood.

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People calling wanting to know if somebody is going to

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build another house there and all kinds of questions about

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the deed restrictions for that neighborhood.

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And I guess maybe legal can speak.

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Okay. Well, I'm going to withdraw my question as on advice

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of Lou because I do have a conflict.

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I wasn't aware I couldn't participate in the work session.

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I wasn't going to participate in the public hearing.

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I'll withdraw my question.

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Thank you.

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That's okay.

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We could do work session.

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Anyone else have any questions on this item?

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Thank you, Haley.

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Seeing none, Haley can and she's bringing her stuff with

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the next item is a public hearing request.

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Haley is going to present that item for us.

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This is case Z1629 for the CST corner store.

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The request is to hold a public hearing and consider a

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request by the property owners to rezone approximately .7

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acres from neighborhood residential six to community mixed

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use general or CMG district as well as to rezone

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approximately 3.6 acres from a neighborhood residential

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mixed use designation to a CMG district.

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And the subject property is located on the south side of

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town along Fort Worth drive and generally at the northeast

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corner of country club and Hobson.

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So it has frontage on three roadways.

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Currently it is comprised of portions of two different parc

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els of land.

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There's a parcel on the north you see there with a single

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family home and then the vacant parcel on the south.

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And so just to give you an idea of what else is in this

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area.

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As I mentioned there's a single family home on the northern

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parcel.

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There are a few more single family homes on the southern

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side of Hobson Lane.

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The development directly across Hobson is an office park

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and then there's multifamily development as well as a Shell

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gas station across from it on country club road.

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So currently it is split between NR6 designation on the

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northern parcel and NRMU on the southern three and a half

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acres.

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The proposal is to take all of this to CMG.

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And the future land use for this area is community mixed

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use which promotes a mix of uses predominantly commercial

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but with complementary residential and service uses mixed

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in as well.

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It's meant to encourage a diversity of uses that can

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develop over time as an area redevelops.

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So some of the considerations we looked at.

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This rezoning would introduce CMG zoning into this area

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currently several hundred feet north on Fort Worth Drive

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before you would hit the next area where CMG district

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applies.

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This CMG designation would encourage appropriate commercial

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uses given the prominent hard corner location of this

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property.

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And CMG also conforms to that future land use designation

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of community mixed use.

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So staff originally we had reservations about this because

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it would create an isolated zoning district with this NRMU

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remainder that I've outlined in yellow.

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However we received an application from the same developers

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to rezone this remaining NRMU portion to CMG.

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We received that application yesterday.

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Just to give you an idea of how this development could look

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the general regulations between for CMG and NRMU district

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are very similar.

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Same lot coverage same amount of landscape area required

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same building height.

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So the NRMU portion of the property would develop in scale

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relatively the same under CMG as it would NRMU.

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We did send notifications about this and we received two

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favorable responses.

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Those were handed out before the meeting and those

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properties are outlined in green on this map.

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And then we received one response in opposition that was

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within that 200 foot radius that's directly across the

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street.

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You did receive a fourth response that I received today and

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that's from a person outside the 200 foot radius but they

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still wanted their concerns to be expressed at the meeting.

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So all of those were handed out to you.

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And with all those considerations staff is now recommending

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approval of this case.

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The CMG district does conform with that future land use

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designation and that application that we received yesterday

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would resolve our concerns regarding that isolated pocket

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of NRMU zoning.

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So we now feel comfortable with the recommendation of

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approval on this case.

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I'll stand for any questions.

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Commissioner Taylor.

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Thank you Chair.

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I think I'm going to have some questions in the public

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hearing.

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I would like to just clarify a few things.

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The first road improvements would the development that goes

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in here be required to improve the perimeter roads?

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I'll answer that one for you.

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Do we have any attachments?

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It looks like there's a whole little section about the

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roads.

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These are just in case slides.

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377 and Country Club Road or FM 1830, they're both textile

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roadways so they will not be required to improve those

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roads.

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Actually those two roads are actually in process of being

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improved.

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377 all the way down to, I can't remember how far down it

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goes beyond this side, but Country Club will be improved up

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to Hobson.

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And as part of the improvements on Country Club, this is Ho

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bson here, this is FM 1830.

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They're going to widen this area to provide a median in the

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middle, dedicated left turn lane for southbound 1830 onto

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Hobson.

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Left turn lanes along, I guess on 1830, left turn lanes on

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both sides of 1830 at the intersection of Hobson, right

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turn lane at Hobson.

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They're also going to build a dedicated right turn on west

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bound Hobson onto 377 as well.

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And that would all be textile?

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Yes, that's all being done by textile.

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And is that project, do we have a timeline on the project?

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It should begin, the utilities are being relocated right

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now and the pavement should begin shortly after, so we're

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thinking summer of this year.

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Okay, so yeah that was my street question. I'm sure we'll

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probably call you up out there to talk about this too.

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Now in terms of access to this property, they've submitted

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this conceptual site plan. They presented it to TxDOT for

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conceptual approvals for their dry-vary access points on

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one on 377, one on FM 1830.

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The one on FM 1830 is a write-in only, and the one on 377

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is a write-in write-out because of the future, or if not

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future, but proposed median that's going to be built upon

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the widening.

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And as well as a full access driveway off of Hobson.

265
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,980
Depending on the trip generation, they may be required to

266
00:13:56,980 --> 00:13:59,870
construct a left turn lane just because of its vicinity to

267
00:13:59,870 --> 00:14:05,759
the intersection, just to make sure they're backing up into

268
00:14:05,759 --> 00:14:12,000
that intersection for those left turn movements.

269
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,000
Commissioner Beck.

270
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,950
I'm glad to see they did make the change out because I was

271
00:14:16,950 --> 00:14:20,100
having a hard time not accepting this or going against the

272
00:14:20,100 --> 00:14:22,769
recommendation because it seems like if you look at it and

273
00:14:22,769 --> 00:14:26,269
you look at the future land use, you've got CMG in there

274
00:14:26,269 --> 00:14:31,000
all the way up, but you've got this block of NR6 in there

275
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,000
right now.

276
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,000
These are these kind of zoning difficulties we run into,

277
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,100
and it's probably not appropriate for me to mention it here

278
00:14:38,100 --> 00:14:41,220
, but maybe the subcommittee I'm going to be on, this would

279
00:14:41,220 --> 00:14:44,240
be something that we probably should look at rezoning this

280
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,129
stretch of Fort Worth Drive there that would accommodate, I

281
00:14:47,129 --> 00:14:48,000
would think, CMG.

282
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,840
I just don't see NR6 being viable in that probably from

283
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,000
about 300 or 400 feet out.

284
00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,000
So anyway, just my comment on that.

285
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,000
Thanks.

286
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,000
Commissioner Hutchbeth.

287
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,000
May I borrow you one more time, Earl?

288
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:09,000
I have a Hobson question.

289
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:19,000
Has there been any assessment of Hobson, that's a city,

290
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:20,000
that city didn't road, right?

291
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,000
That's correct.

292
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,500
So have we looked at that in preparation in these other

293
00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:30,399
advancements go in the text outroads, that Hobson road is

294
00:15:30,399 --> 00:15:34,399
fairly busy anyway, it's a way to shortcut that

295
00:15:34,399 --> 00:15:36,000
intersection.

296
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,620
It's a narrow road, and if this station, let's say, takes

297
00:15:39,620 --> 00:15:42,889
off and there's lots of traffic there, have we kind of

298
00:15:42,889 --> 00:15:46,149
looked in advance to how long it would take us to go from

299
00:15:46,149 --> 00:15:49,750
planning to actually getting in front of that any traffic

300
00:15:49,750 --> 00:15:54,000
that would back up on Hobson?

301
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,360
In terms of the actual project materializing to

302
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,000
construction type?

303
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,000
Yeah, just assuming that it works.

304
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,000
Assuming that the gas, if we build, they'll come.

305
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,000
All the improvements are in, the gas engine goes in.

306
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,000
Yeah, and there's more traffic there.

307
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:15,860
Have we looked at, if that happens, Hobson could be a

308
00:16:15,860 --> 00:16:18,000
nightmare.

309
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,580
Potentially, the city tried to apply for a traffic signal

310
00:16:21,580 --> 00:16:25,139
at this intersection, but the tech site denied it because

311
00:16:25,139 --> 00:16:29,220
of its vicinity to the next intersection down, which is 377

312
00:16:29,220 --> 00:16:32,850
and FM 1830, so they will not allow a signal at this

313
00:16:32,850 --> 00:16:34,000
intersection.

314
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,759
In terms of traffic, I think that the construction of a

315
00:16:37,759 --> 00:16:41,559
right turn lane will alleviate a lot of that congestion

316
00:16:41,559 --> 00:16:45,590
because a lot of these, I guess that one vehicle that wants

317
00:16:45,590 --> 00:16:50,029
a turn left is holding off the rest of the road, creating

318
00:16:50,029 --> 00:16:53,000
that backup, but now creating, constructing that dedicated

319
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,970
right turn lane should alleviate a lot of the current

320
00:16:56,970 --> 00:17:00,250
issues that they're having at this intersection, along with

321
00:17:00,250 --> 00:17:03,000
constructing a left turn lane on Country Club Road to get

322
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:03,000
to the intersection.

323
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,000
Country Club Road to get on the Hobson as well.

324
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,000
That usually backs up into 377 during the peak hours.

325
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:16,099
So, and as well, they're, they're constructing two through

326
00:17:16,099 --> 00:17:19,000
lanes past this intersection.

327
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:24,000
So, on Country Club at the intersection.

328
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:30,099
Right now there's only one lane past this intersection to

329
00:17:30,099 --> 00:17:32,000
turn left or straight.

330
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:38,440
Okay, then give me, if we lived in Utopia from planning to

331
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:42,000
actual road, how long would that take?

332
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,000
Planning to actual road.

333
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,000
Which road, I guess.

334
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,000
Hobson.

335
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:49,000
Hobson.

336
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,680
So, let's say the station's in, we realize, yes, we need to

337
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,059
widen the road, it'd be great, you can get to Eureka Park

338
00:17:57,059 --> 00:17:59,000
faster, all that fun stuff.

339
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,450
From identifying, yes, we're going to widen, and it's

340
00:18:02,450 --> 00:18:06,000
approved to widen Hobson, to actually it being done.

341
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,000
What is that, traditionally, what is that time frame?

342
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,289
Widening of say Hobson Road from Country Club all the way

343
00:18:12,289 --> 00:18:14,000
to Teasley, for example.

344
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,000
Sure.

345
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,000
Making that a road project.

346
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:17,000
Yes.

347
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,789
Well, there's all kinds of complications with that because

348
00:18:19,789 --> 00:18:21,000
it depends on funding.

349
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,000
Usually roads are funded through bonds or road impact fees.

350
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,890
We just started roadway impact fees, so the pot of money on

351
00:18:29,890 --> 00:18:34,000
the road impact fees for this zone is pretty low right now.

352
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:39,000
So unless we incorporate into a bond, next one being 2020,

353
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,390
and say, for example, this road does get selected as part

354
00:18:43,390 --> 00:18:45,000
of the bond program.

355
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:50,410
You know, 2020, then we're looking at 2023 to actual start

356
00:18:50,410 --> 00:18:54,609
a construction, because you have to account for design time

357
00:18:54,609 --> 00:18:55,000
.

358
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,000
Got it.

359
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,000
From the bond to actual construction.

360
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,869
And based on prioritization, or correct me if I'm wrong,

361
00:19:02,869 --> 00:19:04,890
but I understand then you would also, depending on the bond

362
00:19:04,890 --> 00:19:08,250
, you would also prioritize what falls into your program and

363
00:19:08,250 --> 00:19:11,000
what is critical path at that point.

364
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,000
Right.

365
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,859
It's something if we were to forecast, we would one, have

366
00:19:15,859 --> 00:19:19,140
to have the conditions present to be able to forecast what

367
00:19:19,140 --> 00:19:21,859
needs to be done with that infrastructure improvement and

368
00:19:21,859 --> 00:19:24,700
then be able to put it on a critical path, depending on

369
00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:27,000
what the situation is on the right of way.

370
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,000
Okay.

371
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:30,000
Okay. Thank you.

372
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:31,000
Thank you.

373
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,000
Commissioner Bec.

374
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,000
Thank you, Chair.

375
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,569
Looking at this diagram here, are we making, does that look

376
00:19:37,569 --> 00:19:40,839
like we're making a right turn lane on Hobson to swing on

377
00:19:40,839 --> 00:19:42,000
to 1830?

378
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,000
That is part of the text outlining plans.

379
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:45,000
Okay.

380
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,000
How far back from 1830 does that go?

381
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:11,000
Yeah, it's going to go down.

382
00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,000
Are we looking at maybe the length of a football field?

383
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,000
Or is it that long?

384
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:26,000
Over 96 to, say, 500.

385
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,170
So about 400, oh, well that's the beginning of the, so

386
00:20:29,170 --> 00:20:31,000
about 350 feet.

387
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,000
Okay, it's about a football field.

388
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,160
That seems like it would alleviate your concern there

389
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,440
because that's where the backup would occur, I think, is

390
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:41,000
people couldn't make that right turn.

391
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,000
Yeah.

392
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,000
So it's 350 feet at 20 feet per vehicle.

393
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,000
That's quite a bit of storage.

394
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,000
Okay.

395
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,000
Thanks.

396
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:51,000
Commissioner Ellis.

397
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,000
Thank you, Chair.

398
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,000
Earl.

399
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,000
Sorry.

400
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,000
A couple of things.

401
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,000
Okay.

402
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:02,000
So what is Hobson on the future mobility?

403
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,000
What is Hobson considered?

404
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:05,000
What type of structure?

405
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:09,130
Hobson is classified as a four-lane divided roadway, two

406
00:21:09,130 --> 00:21:12,000
lanes each direction, with a median in the middle.

407
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,000
Oh, that is the future plan of Hobson?

408
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:15,000
Yes.

409
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:16,000
I see.

410
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,000
Can you go back to that site plan?

411
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:24,009
Yeah, I got confused on where you were talking about right

412
00:21:24,009 --> 00:21:25,000
turn in.

413
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:30,000
So, okay, so you have a right turn only off of Hobson?

414
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,000
A right turn in off of FM 1830.

415
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,000
That's a right turn only.

416
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:36,000
Right turn in.

417
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,000
Okay, okay.

418
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,000
So they can't exit it back out.

419
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,480
And then this one with a median, and there's not going to

420
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,529
be a median opening here because of this median opening

421
00:21:42,529 --> 00:21:43,000
already there.

422
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,000
This will only be a right in, right out.

423
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,000
Okay.

424
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,900
Now this one will be a full access driveway where you can

425
00:21:49,900 --> 00:21:52,000
turn left, left out, or right out.

426
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,259
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this one

427
00:21:55,259 --> 00:21:59,000
just because that intersection is a nightmare right now.

428
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:00,000
It is a nightmare.

429
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,819
That's why there's so many lanes being built between these

430
00:22:02,819 --> 00:22:04,000
two intersections.

431
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,440
I have to even question whether CMG is the direction we

432
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,000
want to go on this particular corner.

433
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,960
I guess I would have to ask, originally staff was not on

434
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,589
board with this, and I kind of feel like you got strong-

435
00:22:15,589 --> 00:22:21,000
armed, so can you fill me in on that?

436
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,000
Haley, can I field that question for you if you don't mind?

437
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,000
Certainly.

438
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,349
When we received this zoning request, and Haley's going to

439
00:22:28,349 --> 00:22:31,150
pop up the zoning map for me so I can show the subject

440
00:22:31,150 --> 00:22:32,000
property,

441
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,319
the portion under consideration that was before you in your

442
00:22:35,319 --> 00:22:38,000
packet was what's in the pink area right now.

443
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,529
Our recommendation was unfavorable, and our recommendation

444
00:22:41,529 --> 00:22:45,000
stated that we feel, from a land use perspective,

445
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,920
that this hard corner should be looked at comprehensively,

446
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,000
and therefore the entire track should be zoned CMG,

447
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:56,000
because now you have a sliver of NRMU between the NR6 and

448
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,000
the CMG.

449
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,549
We voiced our concern to the applicant and let them know

450
00:22:59,549 --> 00:23:01,000
and inform them of our request,

451
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,759
and they realized that, well, they could actually have this

452
00:23:03,759 --> 00:23:06,329
property under contract, and it made more sense to

453
00:23:06,329 --> 00:23:08,000
consolidate the zoning on the property.

454
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,369
That is the reason why our recommendation, and we're so

455
00:23:10,369 --> 00:23:12,000
comfortable recommending favorably,

456
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,960
because we have actually received a zoning change

457
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,000
application for that piece too.

458
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,759
Now, as it relates to the development and the

459
00:23:19,759 --> 00:23:23,000
infrastructure, so there are two tasks at hand.

460
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,369
We do know that there is an intention to develop the

461
00:23:25,369 --> 00:23:28,539
facility with a fueling station, a C-Store, and a fueling

462
00:23:28,539 --> 00:23:31,000
station, if I'm not mistaken.

463
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,779
So we have that basic info or schematic which has enabled

464
00:23:34,779 --> 00:23:39,000
us to prompt the applicant to visit with TextDOT

465
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,549
and make sure just because of the ramifications associated

466
00:23:41,549 --> 00:23:44,420
with infrastructure improvement that TextDOT, this is the

467
00:23:44,420 --> 00:23:45,000
intention.

468
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,509
So how does that impact the city and the city's right of

469
00:23:48,509 --> 00:23:49,000
way?

470
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:57,000
So in terms of the land use analysis and zoning to CMG,

471
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:02,000
the applicability or the appropriateness of the request

472
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,000
exists just because of the uses permitted in CMG,

473
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,440
and typically, given the right of way frontage, the types

474
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,000
of street that there is frontage on for this subject site,

475
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,759
it accommodates those uses well and can serve as a good

476
00:24:13,759 --> 00:24:17,440
transition ultimately when you typically see CMG along

477
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,000
these types of corridors.

478
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,589
And that's why, and based on the land use plan, that's why

479
00:24:23,589 --> 00:24:28,220
there was no negative opinion of staff as it relates to the

480
00:24:28,220 --> 00:24:29,000
request.

481
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,579
When it comes to the infrastructure ramifications and what

482
00:24:32,579 --> 00:24:34,000
occurs at that point,

483
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,910
obviously, if there are issues that cannot be resolved as

484
00:24:37,910 --> 00:24:41,769
it relates to ingress and egress of the site, as it relates

485
00:24:41,769 --> 00:24:44,000
to the peak hours of use of this site,

486
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,299
then that is something that developability could be ham

487
00:24:47,299 --> 00:24:51,000
pered if they were unable to mitigate those requirements.

488
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,150
And so you're saying the NRMU is going to be coming before

489
00:24:54,150 --> 00:24:56,000
us as well for zoning changes, is what you're saying?

490
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,000
Absolutely. An official application has been made for NRMU.

491
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,000
And so it is up to the commission then to choose which.

492
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,160
Well, right, but effectively, right now, you're

493
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,000
recommending this favorably.

494
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:14,039
And then, obviously, the NRMU would be favorable as well

495
00:25:14,039 --> 00:25:18,349
because that was effectively the idea to get this one in a

496
00:25:18,349 --> 00:25:20,000
favorable light.

497
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,000
Correct.

498
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:27,000
And I guess my question is the CMG in this area at all?

499
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,000
I'm having a hard time with that.

500
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,000
I get you.

501
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,099
I get you with what is already in the area, the amount of

502
00:25:32,099 --> 00:25:34,000
residents who are in the area.

503
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,000
I mean, it's not Fort Worth Drive.

504
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:41,400
It's a transition into Fort Worth Drive 377 and that, but

505
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:46,279
that's not what it is, especially this NRMU shown here on

506
00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:48,000
this map off of Hobson.

507
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,329
It doesn't have the same feel, in my opinion, as you make

508
00:25:52,329 --> 00:25:55,000
that turn onto Fort Worth Drive.

509
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,000
Could you repeat your statement, Commissioner Ellis?

510
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,000
I didn't understand.

511
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,839
The NRMU piece off of Hobson, which piece are you referring

512
00:26:01,839 --> 00:26:03,000
to, the subject?

513
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,000
Not the subject.

514
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,000
Okay.

515
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,000
The NRMU on here currently that I'm staring at.

516
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,910
And even the subject, being that it does come off of Hobson

517
00:26:12,910 --> 00:26:17,000
, it doesn't, I don't get the feel that it needs to be CMG.

518
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,000
I see. I understand.

519
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,049
That this, that all of these parcels of land need to be

520
00:26:22,049 --> 00:26:24,000
that particular zone.

521
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,000
I'm having a hard time keeping my head on that.

522
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,000
I understand.

523
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,349
Do you have a comparison of the uses and the future land

524
00:26:31,349 --> 00:26:35,150
use map and then the permitted uses in CMG and NRMU that we

525
00:26:35,150 --> 00:26:37,000
could do a quick comparison for?

526
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,000
That should be in the backup that everyone received.

527
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,000
There's a comparison chart of uses.

528
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,410
I didn't incorporate it into the presentation, but it

529
00:26:45,410 --> 00:26:47,000
should be in everyone's backup.

530
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,000
Yeah, it is.

531
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:49,000
Okay, super.

532
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,000
I just wanted to make sure you received that.

533
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,000
Thank you, Commissioner Ellis.

534
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,000
I appreciate it.

535
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,000
Thank you.

536
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,000
Appreciate it.

537
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,000
Commissioner Talen.

538
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,000
Okay.

539
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:20,000
Any other questions on this item?

540
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,000
Thank you, Haley.

541
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,000
I've got an announcement right quick.

542
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:32,329
We've actually on our public hearing tonight, we have two

543
00:27:32,329 --> 00:27:33,000
items.

544
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,000
Our item D and our item E both have been withdrawn.

545
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,000
I think on our agenda E was only withdrawn.

546
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,000
D has also been withdrawn.

547
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,259
So I just want to announce that for those that are watching

548
00:27:44,259 --> 00:27:47,750
that were planning to come this evening, I will announce

549
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:52,000
that again when we go into council chambers.

550
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,869
So that's going to move that we are only going to have one

551
00:27:55,869 --> 00:28:00,000
more item here to go over in our public.

552
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,450
I mean, excuse me, in our work session, which is going to

553
00:28:02,450 --> 00:28:03,000
be item C.

554
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,640
And I know this is going to be an item with I think a

555
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,000
number of questions and discussions.

556
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:13,740
So I think it might be prudent for us to take a break at 5

557
00:28:13,740 --> 00:28:19,470
38 and get something to eat and then we'll start our

558
00:28:19,470 --> 00:28:22,000
presentation for C.

559
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:27,000
So I'm going to call recess at 538 for food.

560
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,000
You guys are about to get started?

561
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,000
Yes, sir.

562
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:36,000
Five, four, three.

563
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,000
Welcome back.

564
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:42,329
We will reopen our work session at five fifty and we're on

565
00:28:42,329 --> 00:28:47,000
item C and I'll call on Julie Wyatt for presentation.

566
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,000
Good evening.

567
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,190
Julie Wyatt, senior planner with the city of Denton and I

568
00:28:52,190 --> 00:28:56,000
am presenting the 1623 to you tonight.

569
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,000
The location of the subject property is south of scripture.

570
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,539
It's outlined here in yellow and it's between normal and

571
00:29:03,539 --> 00:29:05,000
Brian Street.

572
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,000
It's made up of three parcels.

573
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,960
The largest parcel and you'll see this in a minute actually

574
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,000
has split zoning.

575
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,000
The north side of the parcel has a DCG zoning district.

576
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:20,000
The south side of the parcel has a DR2 zoning district.

577
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:24,190
And the subject's property is approximately 1200 square

578
00:29:24,190 --> 00:29:28,000
feet from, not square, 1200 linear feet from UNT.

579
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,000
That's about a five to ten minute walk.

580
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,000
It's a little less than a quarter mile.

581
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,000
So the request before you is to hold a public hearing and

582
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,420
consider rezoning approximately 1.39 acres from downtown

583
00:29:41,420 --> 00:29:46,000
residential two, DR2, to downtown commercial general.

584
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,000
That's DCG district.

585
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,319
This map's a little, it's got a lot on it, but I wanted you

586
00:29:53,319 --> 00:29:56,920
to see how all of the zoning and the land uses work

587
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,000
together.

588
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,940
So we're going to go over this map and the surrounding area

589
00:30:01,940 --> 00:30:03,000
together.

590
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,230
So first of all, to orient you, the property here is in the

591
00:30:07,230 --> 00:30:08,000
black.

592
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,000
So this is the subject property.

593
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,630
It's kind of hard to see, but here's where you can, where

594
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:15,000
the split zoning comes into play.

595
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,000
So this is the larger tract.

596
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:22,000
This little bit darker green is DCG and here's your DR2.

597
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:27,380
This tract right here, this property, is developed with an

598
00:30:27,380 --> 00:30:30,000
institutional facility.

599
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:35,000
It hasn't been used in several years, so it's vacant.

600
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,819
The other development on the subject property is a couple

601
00:30:39,819 --> 00:30:41,000
of houses.

602
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,390
The adjacent DCG is developed with that institutional

603
00:30:45,390 --> 00:30:49,000
facility as well as some commercial uses.

604
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,000
And then there's also a single family dwelling.

605
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,000
So it's a mixed, this is a mixed use area.

606
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,000
So you'll see that.

607
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,000
To the south of the subject property is DR2.

608
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,509
That area is developed with single family uses, with single

609
00:31:04,509 --> 00:31:08,000
family uses that are occupied as multi-family dwellings.

610
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,160
And then multi-family dwellings, and then there's a couple

611
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:11,000
of commercial uses.

612
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,000
So that's a real mixed use area as well.

613
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:19,329
To the north of the subject property, across scripture, you

614
00:31:19,329 --> 00:31:21,000
have NRMU 12.

615
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,000
This is the Flow Hospital site.

616
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,000
I'm sure several of you all remember the Flow Hospital.

617
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:34,000
So there's NRMU 12 as well as some NRMU and NRMU 12 here.

618
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,000
This is developed with multi-family.

619
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,000
You've got single family.

620
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,000
You've got office uses and you've got commercial uses.

621
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,000
So that's across the street, across scripture.

622
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,309
To the south, you're probably familiar, this is the

623
00:31:46,309 --> 00:31:48,000
University of North Texas campus.

624
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,000
This is the Fry Street area.

625
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:55,150
Beyond the immediate vicinity of the subject property, we

626
00:31:55,150 --> 00:31:58,269
've got these traditional established single family

627
00:31:58,269 --> 00:31:59,000
neighborhoods.

628
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,000
And these are predominantly single family development.

629
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:07,000
They have a zoning designation of NR3 on them.

630
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,759
NR3, just to remind you, doesn't permit multi-family

631
00:32:10,759 --> 00:32:15,000
development and it doesn't permit commercial development.

632
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,599
There are two other additional areas I just want to point

633
00:32:17,599 --> 00:32:19,000
out to you in the vicinity.

634
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,000
We have two historic districts.

635
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,670
We have the West Oak Historic District here and then the

636
00:32:23,670 --> 00:32:26,000
Oak Hickory Historic District here.

637
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,940
Then the properties with the solid pink have additional

638
00:32:29,940 --> 00:32:32,000
landmark designations.

639
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:39,049
So we've got layers in this area and also a wide variety

640
00:32:39,049 --> 00:32:41,000
mix of uses.

641
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,109
I also want to point out, before I go to the next slide, so

642
00:32:45,109 --> 00:32:48,000
the applicant has approached the city about this rezoning.

643
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,819
Their intent, their expressed intent is to develop the site

644
00:32:51,819 --> 00:32:54,000
with multi-family dwellings.

645
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,980
I just want to point out the existing zoning does permit

646
00:32:56,980 --> 00:32:58,000
multi-family.

647
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,000
DR2 does permit multi-family as well as the DCG.

648
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,000
There is a difference in scale.

649
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,480
DCG also permits some additional commercial uses that DR2

650
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,000
doesn't permit.

651
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,000
So just to let you know that.

652
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,490
So now let's look at the future land use of the subject

653
00:33:14,490 --> 00:33:17,000
property in the surrounding area.

654
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:22,000
This is in a neighborhood university compatibility area.

655
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,599
The areas that are neighborhood university compatibility

656
00:33:25,599 --> 00:33:28,440
areas are parts of the city that are affected by the

657
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,000
universities.

658
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,000
And in this case, of course, it's UNT.

659
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,000
So it's affected by that proximity to UNT.

660
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,160
The intent is to create a compatible form and land uses

661
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,970
that can serve both the university as well as the

662
00:33:41,970 --> 00:33:44,000
established neighborhoods.

663
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,940
What we look for is a gradual transition in scale, use and

664
00:33:47,940 --> 00:33:49,000
character.

665
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,269
We also want to encourage uses that are in close proximity

666
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:52,000
to each other.

667
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,289
So we do encourage a multimodal way of moving about to

668
00:33:55,289 --> 00:34:00,160
encourage that walking and bicycle use, create dynamic

669
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,000
areas.

670
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,799
Just to show what's then surround there is future land use

671
00:34:04,799 --> 00:34:08,380
because we kind of want to take a big picture look at the

672
00:34:08,380 --> 00:34:09,000
area.

673
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:14,000
To the north, those areas that were the NRMU and NRMU 12,

674
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,000
those are neighborhood mixed use per the future land use.

675
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,250
And then beyond that, those areas that are the primarily

676
00:34:21,250 --> 00:34:24,000
single family traditional neighborhoods,

677
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,070
those have a future land use designation of low density

678
00:34:27,070 --> 00:34:30,530
residential, which is that one to four dwelling units per

679
00:34:30,530 --> 00:34:33,000
acre that I know you all have seen a lot.

680
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,579
So the considerations that we looked at when we did the

681
00:34:36,579 --> 00:34:40,000
land use analysis of this request is first we looked to see

682
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,289
the criteria for approval in sub-chapter three of the Dent

683
00:34:42,289 --> 00:34:43,000
on Development Code.

684
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,630
So the future land use designation, does the request meet

685
00:34:46,630 --> 00:34:49,000
that future land use designation?

686
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:54,000
Staff determined that it does and for several reasons.

687
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,360
The comp plan talks about and I know UNT talks about

688
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,000
projected increases in enrollment in the university.

689
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,659
And that those increases in enrollment are creating a need

690
00:35:05,659 --> 00:35:09,070
for additional housing, density, and also commercial

691
00:35:09,070 --> 00:35:10,000
development.

692
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,239
So we want to look at all of the uses within DCG in close

693
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,000
proximity to UNT.

694
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,000
So DCG meets that criteria.

695
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,079
The uses in the density in DCG foster that walkability, the

696
00:35:24,079 --> 00:35:28,000
livability, and the vibrancy of that public realm.

697
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,000
The existing building has been in disuse for several years.

698
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:37,039
Rezoning, potentially rezoning to DCG could possibly

699
00:35:37,039 --> 00:35:41,739
provide a catalyst for revitalization on this subject

700
00:35:41,739 --> 00:35:43,000
property.

701
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,920
But we want to be care and we want to take care to be

702
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,000
sensitive in scale.

703
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:54,469
This area is surrounded by some of our single family urban

704
00:35:54,469 --> 00:35:56,000
neighborhoods.

705
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,000
And we want to make sure that we're sensitive to those.

706
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:05,000
And so when we looked at that, let me see.

707
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,869
So in respect to the sensitivity to scale, I want to show

708
00:36:08,869 --> 00:36:10,000
you a map.

709
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,000
So let's go to the next slide.

710
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,000
So we looked at the location of the subject property.

711
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,000
So here is the proposal.

712
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,000
Adjacent to it, we have DCG.

713
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,000
And then the surrounding NR3.

714
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,840
So when we looked at the potential scale of DCG development

715
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,000
and how that affects those surrounding neighborhoods,

716
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,309
we looked at the zoning pattern and we saw it's surrounded

717
00:36:37,309 --> 00:36:38,000
by DR2,

718
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,449
which provides a transition and a gradual reduction in the

719
00:36:41,449 --> 00:36:43,000
scale of development.

720
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:49,280
We also looked at the NRMU and NRMU12 across scripture that

721
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,739
provided that buffer zone and that transitional area

722
00:36:52,739 --> 00:36:56,750
between the development patterns associated with DCG as

723
00:36:56,750 --> 00:37:00,000
well as the uses.

724
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,849
And the other criteria for approval is the adequate

725
00:37:02,849 --> 00:37:04,000
infrastructure.

726
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,050
And those are questions that we will then go through during

727
00:37:08,050 --> 00:37:12,159
the site plan process and we will make sure that there's

728
00:37:12,159 --> 00:37:16,090
adequate right of way dedication and sidewalks and water

729
00:37:16,090 --> 00:37:17,000
and sewer.

730
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:21,269
And that all goes during the planning as well as the site

731
00:37:21,269 --> 00:37:22,000
plan.

732
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,000
Some site photos.

733
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,289
I use Google Photos again because once again, they take

734
00:37:26,289 --> 00:37:28,000
better pictures than I do.

735
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,000
But here is the subject property.

736
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,099
This is Normal Street looking north toward the subject

737
00:37:34,099 --> 00:37:39,000
property at one of the houses associated with the request.

738
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,000
It has been left off.

739
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:46,659
And then this is the view of the property from Bryan Street

740
00:37:46,659 --> 00:37:47,000
.

741
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,000
So this is looking north on Bryan Street.

742
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,000
And then we'll look at my photos, but not good ones.

743
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:59,000
These are some of the properties that surround the area.

744
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,820
Another consideration that we looked at as we did our land

745
00:38:03,820 --> 00:38:09,719
use analysis is, and particularly after hearing from the

746
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,340
neighbors during the two neighborhood meetings, was they

747
00:38:12,340 --> 00:38:14,000
had concerns about scale.

748
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:17,300
And so in these mixed use areas, you do want to be

749
00:38:17,300 --> 00:38:19,000
sensitive to scale.

750
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:23,190
And so we looked at the Denton Development Code and there

751
00:38:23,190 --> 00:38:27,760
are design requirements within the Denton Development Code

752
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,199
that do allow or do put additional requirements on

753
00:38:31,199 --> 00:38:35,309
properties so that they maintain an appropriate scale with

754
00:38:35,309 --> 00:38:38,000
adjacent single family residential.

755
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,000
So one of those is a minimum yard.

756
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,690
Within subchapter five of the Denton Development Code, if a

757
00:38:44,690 --> 00:38:48,010
use is abutting a single family use, they have to have a

758
00:38:48,010 --> 00:38:51,719
minimum yard of 20 feet, plus one foot for each foot of

759
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,000
building height over 30 feet.

760
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,679
So what that does is as the building height goes up, the

761
00:38:57,679 --> 00:39:01,440
building has to move farther away from the single family

762
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:02,000
use.

763
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:07,000
Does that make sense?

764
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,000
Commissioner Beck.

765
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,440
In the diagrams that look like the building was starting to

766
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:14,000
take a slow...

767
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,000
We'll talk about that one in a minute.

768
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,070
So these are different elements within the Denton

769
00:39:18,070 --> 00:39:19,000
Development Code.

770
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:22,610
This is one where the minimum yard, so this does move the

771
00:39:22,610 --> 00:39:24,000
actual building.

772
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,260
If the building gets taller, we'll talk about that one in

773
00:39:26,260 --> 00:39:27,000
just a minute.

774
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,000
Also, there are landscape buffers.

775
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,090
I know y'all are familiar with those within the Denton

776
00:39:31,090 --> 00:39:32,000
Development Code.

777
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,159
If you have adjacent uses, we do require landscape buffer,

778
00:39:36,159 --> 00:39:40,489
for example, multifamily adjacent to single family requires

779
00:39:40,489 --> 00:39:43,000
a 10 foot landscape buffer.

780
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,909
And this is a diagram from the Denton Development Code that

781
00:39:45,909 --> 00:39:49,000
shows what kind of plantings need to be within that buffer.

782
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,559
And then the final thing is the residential proximity slope

783
00:39:52,559 --> 00:39:55,000
, which is what you are referring to.

784
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,000
And I'm going to...

785
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,000
Commissioner Tyler.

786
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,000
Sure.

787
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,000
I just had a question regarding all of this.

788
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,989
So we're talking about these buffers and potential

789
00:40:05,989 --> 00:40:11,059
proximity slope, proximity side yard requirements to single

790
00:40:11,059 --> 00:40:12,000
family.

791
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,000
Yes.

792
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:17,000
So if you zoom in, I don't see any single...

793
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,000
Where's the single family?

794
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,000
Well...

795
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,000
So would there be a buffer required anywhere?

796
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:27,019
Because it looks like an apartment building, apartment

797
00:40:27,019 --> 00:40:28,000
building.

798
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,630
So is that... well, those two houses... so is that single

799
00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:31,000
family or is that...

800
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,619
This is a single family property that we're not sure if it

801
00:40:34,619 --> 00:40:38,000
is used as multifamily or used as single family.

802
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:42,099
So during the site plan process, during building permit, as

803
00:40:42,099 --> 00:40:45,519
we go through that, if there are any adjacent... and really

804
00:40:45,519 --> 00:40:47,000
that would be the property.

805
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,099
So if the zoning was approved, if they did move forward, we

806
00:40:50,099 --> 00:40:52,000
would have to make sure that if they are...

807
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,599
If any single family uses that being probably...

808
00:40:56,599 --> 00:41:01,000
particularly on the minimum yard would be the one.

809
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,000
Now, residential proximity slope is a little different.

810
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:08,000
So did you want to add something to that, Manal?

811
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,250
Julie, would you iterate again when we're talking about

812
00:41:11,250 --> 00:41:15,000
these parameters as it relates to scale and developability.

813
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,000
These are criteria that are established in the DCG.

814
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,440
Are they commensurate with those in the DR2 district as

815
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:22,000
well?

816
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,000
This would be required in any... for any development.

817
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,159
And the intent is to make sure that when you have a mix of

818
00:41:30,159 --> 00:41:34,000
uses that the adjacent scale is appropriate.

819
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:35,000
So thank you, yeah.

820
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,000
Okay.

821
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,199
So and then you would have, of course, across the street

822
00:41:39,199 --> 00:41:42,000
there's single family, maybe on both sides?

823
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,489
There's some single family across scripture as well as

824
00:41:46,489 --> 00:41:48,000
across normal.

825
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,000
And this... maybe this will answer some of your questions.

826
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,309
So the residential proximity slope, the intent of that is

827
00:41:54,309 --> 00:41:57,460
to make sure it minimizes visual impacts of taller

828
00:41:57,460 --> 00:42:00,980
buildings when they're in close proximity to single family

829
00:42:00,980 --> 00:42:02,000
residential.

830
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:06,349
And so it applies not only if the two uses share a property

831
00:42:06,349 --> 00:42:09,760
line, but if they're also across the street from each other

832
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:10,000
.

833
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,429
So in the... and this may be more applicable in this case

834
00:42:13,429 --> 00:42:16,280
because we do have some single family uses across the

835
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:17,000
street.

836
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:22,630
So here's how the residential proximity slope is determined

837
00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:23,000
.

838
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:28,329
When you have a multifamily development, you would... you

839
00:42:28,329 --> 00:42:32,630
would end up building... if the building height exceeds 40

840
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:33,000
feet,

841
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,489
then you would at the setback line measure up 40 feet in

842
00:42:37,489 --> 00:42:43,000
the air and then the building would have to be stepped back

843
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:48,329
from that at an angle of 35 degrees in order to reduce the

844
00:42:48,329 --> 00:42:51,210
impact of the height of the building on the adjacent

845
00:42:51,210 --> 00:42:56,000
sidewalk and on the adjacent properties.

846
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,000
So just...

847
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:58,000
Continue.

848
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:04,179
To continue the example, the 20 feet plus one foot per

849
00:43:04,179 --> 00:43:09,000
height would make a 60 foot mixed use setback.

850
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,000
Or can we go back to that formula?

851
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,000
Yeah.

852
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,000
Is that...

853
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,000
So if it was adjacent to a single family use...

854
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,000
Over 30 feet.

855
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:19,000
Over 30 feet.

856
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,300
A 60 foot building would then require a 50 foot setback

857
00:43:22,300 --> 00:43:24,000
from that single family use.

858
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,400
Is it measured from that 40 foot edge or is it measured

859
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,000
from the top of the building somewhere further over here?

860
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,000
There are two different elements.

861
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,269
We have... the first... the minimum yard is how far away

862
00:43:34,269 --> 00:43:38,369
the building is and then the residential proximity slope is

863
00:43:38,369 --> 00:43:42,000
the stepped back from 40 feet in the air.

864
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:42,000
Right.

865
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,000
But they're co-mingled in that diagram you have.

866
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,000
So I'm just trying to get...

867
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:50,230
Minimum yard, is it based on the 40 foot edge or is it

868
00:43:50,230 --> 00:43:55,000
based on the maximum height somewhere else in the building?

869
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,000
I'm not sure I understand the question.

870
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,440
So let's say it's a hypothetical 100 foot building is being

871
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:01,000
built.

872
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:02,000
Right.

873
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:06,000
It has this 40 foot maximum at the setback.

874
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:07,000
Correct.

875
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:11,159
And then somewhere over... away from the setback, it's

876
00:44:11,159 --> 00:44:12,000
taller.

877
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:13,000
Yes.

878
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:18,000
Does it have to have a 90 foot side yard?

879
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,000
Because that's 100 minus 30 plus 20.

880
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,000
Or does it have to have a 30 foot side yard?

881
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:25,000
Let me see if I can answer it.

882
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,000
If I don't answer it, maybe... we'll figure this out.

883
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:34,000
So if... let me go back to...

884
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,000
This was one of my just in case slides.

885
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:37,000
I needed my just in case.

886
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:38,000
All right.

887
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:43,510
So for instance, if here's a single family use, if the

888
00:44:43,510 --> 00:44:49,239
building was 100 feet adjacent to this single family use,

889
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:54,000
it would have to have a 90 foot setback.

890
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,000
And the physical building.

891
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,599
And then at that 90 foot edge, it would only be 40 feet

892
00:44:58,599 --> 00:44:59,000
tall.

893
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:00,000
No.

894
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,000
Well, yes, at 40 feet tall.

895
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,099
And it would have to be setback for the residential

896
00:45:03,099 --> 00:45:04,000
proximity slope.

897
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,190
So if any part of the building is 100 feet, it would have

898
00:45:07,190 --> 00:45:09,000
to have a 90 foot side yard?

899
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,650
And this is... there's a huge difference in a 30 foot side

900
00:45:12,650 --> 00:45:13,000
yard.

901
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,539
Only if it was... only if it shared a property line with a

902
00:45:16,539 --> 00:45:18,000
single family use.

903
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,429
If it was across the street, that minimum side yard... that

904
00:45:21,429 --> 00:45:24,000
minimum yard would not apply.

905
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,000
Okay.

906
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,000
Did I answer your question?

907
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,280
So if any part of the building is 100 feet, that's what...

908
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,849
or whatever height, the maximum height of the building

909
00:45:33,849 --> 00:45:35,000
determines...

910
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,000
Depending on the adjacent use.

911
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:39,000
Yes.

912
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,000
It all hinges on the adjacent use.

913
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,989
So that's... again, so maximum height of the building

914
00:45:44,989 --> 00:45:49,369
adjacent to single family use is used determining the side

915
00:45:49,369 --> 00:45:55,000
yard requirement, not the height at the side yard.

916
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:59,000
Julie, pull up that diagram again.

917
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,760
I think we're talking somewhat the same thing, but we're

918
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,440
not hitting... I guess we're not understanding your

919
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:05,000
question.

920
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,760
And this is a diagram just to show the residential

921
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:09,000
proximity slope.

922
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,000
So it doesn't conflate those two requirements.

923
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,869
Well, it does... it makes you setback, which is the 20 feet

924
00:46:15,869 --> 00:46:18,000
plus 1 foot over 30.

925
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,000
Yes. Yes.

926
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:24,460
So... and that's my key... my question is, if it goes by

927
00:46:24,460 --> 00:46:28,750
just kind of the nearest edge, 40 feet, that creates a 30

928
00:46:28,750 --> 00:46:30,000
foot setback.

929
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:33,510
If it goes by the tallest point on the building somewhere

930
00:46:33,510 --> 00:46:35,000
else, it could create a...

931
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,000
Then that setback could be much more significant.

932
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:43,000
And so which way is the math calculated?

933
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,570
I guess it would depend going back to what is the adjacency

934
00:46:46,570 --> 00:46:50,420
, so it would then render developability, right? Is what you

935
00:46:50,420 --> 00:46:51,000
're...

936
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,869
But you can't have a 100 foot wall... if you made it 100

937
00:46:54,869 --> 00:46:57,000
feet tall here, that would be illegal.

938
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,590
It would make you have a 90 foot setback, and then you

939
00:46:59,590 --> 00:47:02,000
still would have to have a 40 foot minimum height or

940
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,000
maximum height.

941
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,300
You're right. You could not have a minimum... you are... oh

942
00:47:06,300 --> 00:47:09,000
, I got it. Yes.

943
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,000
So highest point.

944
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,000
Highest point adjacency. Yes.

945
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:14,000
Okay.

946
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,000
Alright.

947
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,869
So the highest point on the building determines the mixed

948
00:47:20,869 --> 00:47:24,000
use setback from a single family use.

949
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,000
Yes. Yes.

950
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,000
Okay. Thank you.

951
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,000
Alright.

952
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,000
Commissioner Beck.

953
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,000
Thank you, Chair.

954
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,860
I'm still flummoxed a little bit about how we're talking

955
00:47:38,860 --> 00:47:40,000
about scale here.

956
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,000
Okay.

957
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,280
We're going to be talking about a five story building that

958
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:49,369
's going to be in close proximity to houses and two story

959
00:47:49,369 --> 00:47:53,000
apartment complexes.

960
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,000
It's going to stick out like a sore thumb to me.

961
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,889
I just... the scale is going to be... I don't see how you

962
00:47:58,889 --> 00:48:03,000
can get a scale that blends in with the neighborhood.

963
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:09,170
So how do we even come to some understanding of scale when

964
00:48:09,170 --> 00:48:11,159
we're talking about a building that's going to be at least

965
00:48:11,159 --> 00:48:12,000
five stories high?

966
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,170
Well, and that's really where the residential proximity

967
00:48:15,170 --> 00:48:18,590
slope comes in because it is intended for these mixed use

968
00:48:18,590 --> 00:48:21,500
areas where you do potentially have buildings that are

969
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:24,000
taller than the adjacent properties.

970
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:28,389
So the intent is to kind of visually mute those upper

971
00:48:28,389 --> 00:48:33,840
floors because you figure at 40 feet you're probably at the

972
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,000
third floor.

973
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:40,769
And so it's going to then be stepped back so that it's not

974
00:48:40,769 --> 00:48:44,000
as looming on the sidewalk.

975
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:49,000
Okay.

976
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,000
Commissioner Hussbett.

977
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,000
Can we look at the future land use map again?

978
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,000
Sure.

979
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,000
Please, thank you.

980
00:48:58,000 --> 00:48:59,000
Okay.

981
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:04,619
So darker blue and then it kind of transitions lighter blue

982
00:49:04,619 --> 00:49:05,000
.

983
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,179
So help me understand this type of development at the end

984
00:49:08,179 --> 00:49:10,000
of the transition, right?

985
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,000
Because here's what it feels like to me.

986
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,860
We couldn't buy any property closer to UNT and so we found

987
00:49:15,860 --> 00:49:18,000
this and we're going to stick it here.

988
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:22,539
That's how it -- but if I'm looking at how things flow, it

989
00:49:22,539 --> 00:49:27,000
should be tailing off there, not hitting stride.

990
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,000
Am I reading that wrong?

991
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,000
Well, but we already have.

992
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,000
In fact, the end of it is already DCG.

993
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,300
So really this is just a continuation of an existing zoning

994
00:49:36,300 --> 00:49:38,000
pattern that's there now.

995
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:44,559
So -- and it's based upon the historical zoning and how

996
00:49:44,559 --> 00:49:48,000
this area has developed.

997
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,179
So I hear you and we've looked at all of these factors, but

998
00:49:51,179 --> 00:49:55,000
due to the existing zoning pattern that's there now,

999
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,000
this really is just a continuation of what's there.

1000
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:00,000
Continue.

1001
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,000
Okay.

1002
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,000
So let's take that approach.

1003
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:08,019
Well, I still would like -- I'll answer my question with a

1004
00:50:08,019 --> 00:50:09,000
statement.

1005
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:13,650
I don't think we should be hitting stride at the end of the

1006
00:50:13,650 --> 00:50:15,000
transition.

1007
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:22,000
But even that -- when I look at the comparison between --

1008
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,139
the only bad things are not allowed, in my opinion, for

1009
00:50:25,139 --> 00:50:26,000
that area, right?

1010
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:27,000
That's my humble opinion.

1011
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,780
When I look at the comparison, we're talking hotels, bed

1012
00:50:30,780 --> 00:50:34,000
and breakfast, retail sales, movie theaters with SUP,

1013
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:37,000
restaurants, private clubs, bars.

1014
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:44,639
And so I don't -- as is, seems that it would accommodate

1015
00:50:44,639 --> 00:50:47,000
whatever needs to be done.

1016
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:51,000
And transitioning opens a lot of doors.

1017
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,590
And so my question is, this is -- what is the height

1018
00:50:55,590 --> 00:50:57,000
difference? Because that's the only thing not listed kind

1019
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:57,000
of in this chart.

1020
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:01,369
So what are we talking the difference in height from DR2 to

1021
00:51:01,369 --> 00:51:02,000
DCG?

1022
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,269
Because I think it's important to also understand this area

1023
00:51:05,269 --> 00:51:06,000
, right?

1024
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,000
Because the other apartment complex is on a hill.

1025
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,840
And so it kind of naturally kind of -- it's the first thing

1026
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,000
you see and it's on a hill.

1027
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,849
So as you're driving up a hill, it's kind of going uphill

1028
00:51:17,849 --> 00:51:20,000
and it has just a different feel to it.

1029
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,849
It may be the same height, it may all be the same, but it

1030
00:51:22,849 --> 00:51:25,000
feels different, looks different.

1031
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:30,000
By the time it levels out, that development levels out.

1032
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,679
So comparing apples to apples, what are we talking about

1033
00:51:33,679 --> 00:51:37,030
height difference if we leave it -- if it's left as is

1034
00:51:37,030 --> 00:51:39,000
versus where they want to go?

1035
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:44,639
DR2 permits 45 feet in height, a three or four story

1036
00:51:44,639 --> 00:51:46,000
building.

1037
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,989
DCG permits 100 feet, probably about an eight story

1038
00:51:49,989 --> 00:51:51,000
building.

1039
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,000
Give that to me again, I'm sorry.

1040
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:59,000
DR2 permits 45 feet, so three or four story building.

1041
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:05,000
DCG permits 100 feet, about an eight story building.

1042
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:11,000
And that's -- my math, that's double, right? Over double?

1043
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:12,000
Yes, sir.

1044
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,000
Outstanding. Thank you.

1045
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,000
Ms. Menard would like to make some clarification.

1046
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,909
Just to -- a point of clarification, Julie, if you would go

1047
00:52:18,909 --> 00:52:22,099
to the zoning map or a map that reflects the subject

1048
00:52:22,099 --> 00:52:23,000
property,

1049
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,300
keep in mind that, you know, the commission has raised

1050
00:52:26,300 --> 00:52:30,000
questions regarding development and what has been

1051
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,000
intermitted to staff as to what is being developed.

1052
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,940
A portion of that property is already zoned DCG, which can

1053
00:52:35,940 --> 00:52:38,000
go up to that height of 100 feet.

1054
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,000
There is a split zoning on the property.

1055
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:45,309
The overall developable property. So I wanted to highlight

1056
00:52:45,309 --> 00:52:46,000
that so that it was clear to the audience and, of course,

1057
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,480
definitely I'm sure the PNZ is aware of this, that you've

1058
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:52,320
got property that is partially developable with DCG and a

1059
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:55,000
part that is under DR2.

1060
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:56,000
Commissioner Hutchins.

1061
00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:00,800
Sorry, Margie. So just to be clear, they could -- then they

1062
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:04,340
could develop that currently and they could put their

1063
00:53:04,340 --> 00:53:06,000
building there if they want, right?

1064
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:07,000
Correct.

1065
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,579
And we're not complicit in that. I mean, that's their

1066
00:53:10,579 --> 00:53:11,000
decision.

1067
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,000
They can do it. They can squeeze it in.

1068
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,000
And we don't have to vote on anything.

1069
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,329
In terms of the land uses, the discussion that's before you

1070
00:53:18,329 --> 00:53:21,099
tonight, the applicant is requesting a change in zoning

1071
00:53:21,099 --> 00:53:22,000
primarily,

1072
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,409
if I'm not mistaken, and the applicant will be present to

1073
00:53:24,409 --> 00:53:27,329
discuss it, is to consolidate the zoning on the property to

1074
00:53:27,329 --> 00:53:32,000
have one like zoning so that they can follow the one single

1075
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,000
zoning design criteria.

1076
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,630
That is the intent of the request before you. In terms of

1077
00:53:37,630 --> 00:53:41,099
the uses and the uses that have been discussed tonight,

1078
00:53:41,099 --> 00:53:43,000
they're permitted by right.

1079
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,000
For that segment?

1080
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,000
For both the DR2 and the DCG zoning.

1081
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:49,000
Sure. Excellent. Thank you.

1082
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:50,000
Commissioner Ellis.

1083
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,000
Thank you, Chair.

1084
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,940
Could go back to Commissioner Hutspeth. He talked about

1085
00:53:55,940 --> 00:53:57,000
transition.

1086
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,590
And we've talked about this before when we've had some

1087
00:53:59,590 --> 00:54:02,329
other projects come before us with that university

1088
00:54:02,329 --> 00:54:03,000
transition.

1089
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:07,260
Can you give me the city's definition of what that looks

1090
00:54:07,260 --> 00:54:08,000
like?

1091
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,619
I don't know if there is a specific definition because when

1092
00:54:11,619 --> 00:54:15,500
you're talking about transitioning, and we all may want to

1093
00:54:15,500 --> 00:54:21,079
jump in if we're talking about transitioning in our core,

1094
00:54:21,079 --> 00:54:23,000
you know, in downtown, it's going to look a lot different

1095
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:27,000
than transition, say, on the loop, our more suburban areas.

1096
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:34,000
So in this respect, yes, the DCG permits 100 foot building.

1097
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:37,510
And then the adjacent NRMU permits 65, so that's stepping

1098
00:54:37,510 --> 00:54:38,000
down.

1099
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:42,000
And then the NR3 permits, you know, 40 foot building.

1100
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,000
So it allows that building to step down.

1101
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:49,000
Additionally, the uses. You can also transition the uses.

1102
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:57,000
So the uses within DR2 and DCG have commercial uses. They

1103
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:57,000
have multifamily.

1104
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,360
They have, you know, the densities. DCG permits 150

1105
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:04,199
dwelling units per acre and DR2 permits 30 dwelling units

1106
00:55:04,199 --> 00:55:05,000
per acre.

1107
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:09,550
NRMU and NRMU 12 also have, permit multifamily with some

1108
00:55:09,550 --> 00:55:13,000
limitations in SUP and also permits some commercial uses.

1109
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,559
So that also transitions those uses from more of a mixed

1110
00:55:16,559 --> 00:55:20,269
use area down into that single family neighborhood that's

1111
00:55:20,269 --> 00:55:21,000
surrounding it.

1112
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:24,440
So when we talk about that transition, that's what we mean

1113
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:29,000
here. In other parts of the city, it might look different.

1114
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,000
Okay, so we're talking about transition from the zoning.

1115
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,099
And I guess I was talking about transition with the

1116
00:55:35,099 --> 00:55:36,000
university.

1117
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:42,530
Oh, okay. I can. All right. In terms of the future land use

1118
00:55:42,530 --> 00:55:51,599
designation, we don't have a specific definition for the

1119
00:55:51,599 --> 00:55:55,000
neighborhood university compatibility area.

1120
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:59,010
What we have in the Denton Plan 2030 is you have kind of

1121
00:55:59,010 --> 00:56:02,179
the intent of what that is and then what the design

1122
00:56:02,179 --> 00:56:04,000
guidelines look like.

1123
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:08,239
So when we look at a request, we look at the intent and

1124
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:13,000
these are bullet points that bring out what that intent is.

1125
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,309
And then we look at the zoning district and see if that

1126
00:56:15,309 --> 00:56:19,000
matches it. So we don't really have a specific definition.

1127
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,559
And Manal, it sounds like she wants to add something to

1128
00:56:21,559 --> 00:56:22,000
that.

1129
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:23,420
So we look at the dark blue and we look at the light blue

1130
00:56:23,420 --> 00:56:27,000
on the screen. And I think that's where the query arises is

1131
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,170
, well, if this truly is supposed to be, yes, it is a

1132
00:56:30,170 --> 00:56:32,539
neighborhood university compatibility area based on the

1133
00:56:32,539 --> 00:56:33,000
confline.

1134
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:37,289
But it also reflects a transitional type fading in of uses

1135
00:56:37,289 --> 00:56:42,000
or blending in of uses, perhaps lower scale, perhaps not.

1136
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:46,000
But that is the ultimate goal or the guiding tool.

1137
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,789
However, when you've got smaller parcels of land that are

1138
00:56:49,789 --> 00:56:54,059
littered or that are dotted with specific zoning categories

1139
00:56:54,059 --> 00:56:57,000
where there is an opportunity to consolidate,

1140
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,019
when you know the uses are pretty much like within that

1141
00:57:00,019 --> 00:57:03,510
compatibility area, then the discussion pretty much hinges

1142
00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:06,639
more on what is going to, what is the most beneficial in

1143
00:57:06,639 --> 00:57:10,000
terms of compatibility of zoning district at this point.

1144
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:11,000
Continue.

1145
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:12,000
Thank you, Chair.

1146
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,119
Right. And I guess that's what's so difficult about this

1147
00:57:15,119 --> 00:57:17,489
right now is because you think of transition out and you

1148
00:57:17,489 --> 00:57:20,000
think of getting smaller, right?

1149
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,449
And so I guess we already have ourselves a problem just

1150
00:57:23,449 --> 00:57:27,159
because of current zoning that sits on part of this land on

1151
00:57:27,159 --> 00:57:30,650
scripture, because we could transition down and then it can

1152
00:57:30,650 --> 00:57:33,500
bump up because it's allowed right now with the way it's z

1153
00:57:33,500 --> 00:57:34,000
oned.

1154
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:39,730
So I think the hard part is if we now start creeping this

1155
00:57:39,730 --> 00:57:46,079
way and allow this up zone in these two parcels, you know,

1156
00:57:46,079 --> 00:57:49,000
are we now moving that transitional line?

1157
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:52,269
And, you know, does it become a domino effect and now

1158
00:57:52,269 --> 00:57:55,940
suddenly the transitional line for the university is now at

1159
00:57:55,940 --> 00:57:57,000
scripture?

1160
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:01,000
And then we're transitioning from there.

1161
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:12,000
So that's where my head is at the moment.

1162
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:13,000
Commissioner Taylor.

1163
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:19,000
Two kind of small technical questions.

1164
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:22,440
Do we know the square footage of the current DCG part and

1165
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,000
then the part requested to be rezoned?

1166
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,000
I don't have that information.

1167
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:31,139
DC, the current is about 1.7 and the current and the

1168
00:58:31,139 --> 00:58:33,000
proposed is about 1.3 ish.

1169
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,000
So it's anywhere in there.

1170
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,000
Thank you.

1171
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:38,000
Commissioner Ellis.

1172
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:39,000
Thank you, Chair.

1173
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:43,530
Clarification, how did we end up with a zoning split in the

1174
00:58:43,530 --> 00:58:45,000
middle of a lot?

1175
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:46,000
I can answer that.

1176
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:47,000
You can.

1177
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:48,000
Okay.

1178
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:49,000
Thank you.

1179
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:50,000
Well, okay.

1180
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:51,000
I know a partial.

1181
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:54,639
This building that's there, that institutional use was

1182
00:58:54,639 --> 00:58:58,349
built in the early '80s and it was built over a property

1183
00:58:58,349 --> 00:58:59,000
line.

1184
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:06,170
And so at some point they consolidated and it matched the

1185
00:59:06,170 --> 00:59:09,000
zoning at the time.

1186
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:12,000
At some point they consolidated that property into one lot.

1187
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,559
So the building was built over a property line over the

1188
00:59:14,559 --> 00:59:17,039
different zoning districts and then at some point they

1189
00:59:17,039 --> 00:59:19,000
consolidated the lot.

1190
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,000
And now they're proposing to consolidate the zoning.

1191
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:28,000
So yeah.

1192
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,000
I have one more clarification question.

1193
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:33,510
On the map, the way it's cut out, there looks like there is

1194
00:59:33,510 --> 00:59:37,000
a parcel that sits on the corner of Bryan and scripture.

1195
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:41,000
Is that someone else's property?

1196
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:43,000
Is that going to be part of this?

1197
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,000
It would be a part of it if --

1198
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:46,000
And it's already zoned?

1199
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:47,000
Yes, ma'am.

1200
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:48,000
Yes, ma'am.

1201
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:49,000
Okay.

1202
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:50,000
Very good.

1203
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:51,000
Thank you.

1204
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:52,000
Commissioner Beck.

1205
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:53,000
Thanks, Chair.

1206
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:58,000
I don't know what Commissioner Ells is talking about.

1207
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:03,420
I'm just trying to figure out how did we get DCG down at

1208
01:00:03,420 --> 01:00:06,000
that end of this area?

1209
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:10,000
Because I don't mind the usages.

1210
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,000
I don't have any problem with the usages.

1211
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:15,000
I think that bodes well for us.

1212
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,349
But how did we get down to somewhere where you could build

1213
01:00:17,349 --> 01:00:20,239
a 100-foot high building when you don't have that anywhere

1214
01:00:20,239 --> 01:00:21,000
near that area?

1215
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,000
Or back the other way?

1216
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,590
So how did we -- and I know this -- it's a done deal in its

1217
01:00:25,590 --> 01:00:27,000
history and everything.

1218
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,000
But back in 2002, they did this.

1219
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:31,000
What was going on in their minds?

1220
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,000
Here's what they did.

1221
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,510
The current zoning, during the citywide rezoning in 2002,

1222
01:00:36,510 --> 01:00:39,000
they rezoned it based upon what was on the site.

1223
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:42,000
And in this case -- and then with the historical zoning.

1224
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:45,000
And this historical zoning here was all office.

1225
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:50,719
This was the flow hospital, and apparently it was a major

1226
01:00:50,719 --> 01:00:52,440
-- it was the county -- it was a major hospital within the

1227
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:53,000
city of Denton.

1228
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,289
So this really was a note of activity, medical activity

1229
01:00:56,289 --> 01:00:58,000
within the city of Denton.

1230
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,829
And a lot of these properties were pharmacies or doctor's

1231
01:01:01,829 --> 01:01:06,000
offices, things that were associated with the hospital.

1232
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,760
So I think, you know, as the area has evolved, as the

1233
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:13,050
university has grown, as students have -- you know, as that

1234
01:01:13,050 --> 01:01:14,000
population has grown,

1235
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:19,329
it's gone from that note of medical activity onto more of a

1236
01:01:19,329 --> 01:01:22,000
center of a residential area.

1237
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:23,000
Okay.

1238
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,840
So some of it, the reasoning was based on how it would feed

1239
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,000
off of what was the hospital.

1240
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:30,000
Yes.

1241
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:33,000
I mean, that was -- that started before we had zoning.

1242
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:37,000
So there was farms and fields all around it.

1243
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:41,300
But still, there was the residential aspect of this whole

1244
01:01:41,300 --> 01:01:42,000
area.

1245
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:49,000
Once we lost flow, we kept the DCG there anyway.

1246
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:52,780
Was there no -- again, it just seems odd to have not

1247
01:01:52,780 --> 01:01:56,440
reflected the change once flow was gone, and we're left

1248
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:57,000
with that now.

1249
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:58,000
And I don't know the answer to that.

1250
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:00,590
And that's being used in part to justify adding on to it

1251
01:02:00,590 --> 01:02:01,000
now.

1252
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:02,000
Right.

1253
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,010
I don't know the answer to why they chose what they chose

1254
01:02:05,010 --> 01:02:06,000
at that point.

1255
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:07,000
Okay.

1256
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:08,000
Just thinking out loud there.

1257
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:09,000
Thanks.

1258
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:10,000
You all want me to finish?

1259
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:12,480
I'm going to make a comment, and I know we're getting close

1260
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:13,000
on time.

1261
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:17,849
Just kind of observation, I know we've had a project before

1262
01:02:17,849 --> 01:02:21,000
us a few months ago at Fry Street.

1263
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,500
And there's a lot of conversation here on our commission

1264
01:02:24,500 --> 01:02:26,000
about transitions.

1265
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:29,199
And I guess just kind of my throwout on the table of the

1266
01:02:29,199 --> 01:02:33,329
commission is that as these projects continue to come

1267
01:02:33,329 --> 01:02:34,000
forward,

1268
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:38,400
we had a project that was proposed smaller in scale, closer

1269
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:43,840
to the university, and it was -- you know, there was not

1270
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:45,000
support for it.

1271
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:49,550
And now we have a project that's currently zoned that's

1272
01:02:49,550 --> 01:02:51,000
farther away.

1273
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:53,809
And I don't know as a city how we get to a place of where

1274
01:02:53,809 --> 01:02:56,000
is the appropriate place to build them,

1275
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:58,599
because when somebody comes before us and wants to do it

1276
01:02:58,599 --> 01:03:01,000
closer to the university, it's a no.

1277
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:04,000
And they go to somewhere that is zoned for the most part,

1278
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:07,099
the biggest part of it, that can be considerably taller

1279
01:03:07,099 --> 01:03:09,000
than what was before us.

1280
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,000
And it's a no-go there.

1281
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:14,840
And I struggle a little bit as a commissioner going, well,

1282
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:19,599
how do we find some consensus here for people to be able to

1283
01:03:19,599 --> 01:03:22,000
provide some student housing?

1284
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:23,000
Where is it?

1285
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:26,519
If it's closer over to Oak Street, the historic district is

1286
01:03:26,519 --> 01:03:28,000
even more upset about it.

1287
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:30,909
If it's farther away from Oak Street and where there's

1288
01:03:30,909 --> 01:03:34,000
commercial properties, it's no good there either.

1289
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:38,289
And so I just want to point that out that at some place we

1290
01:03:38,289 --> 01:03:42,059
've got to find some consistency, I think, as a commission

1291
01:03:42,059 --> 01:03:45,000
of what we are going to do or where we are going to go.

1292
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:48,559
So people that listen to our meetings that go back and look

1293
01:03:48,559 --> 01:03:51,949
at properties and bring projects go, well, we don't want it

1294
01:03:51,949 --> 01:03:53,000
closer to Oak Street.

1295
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,760
We'll go somewhere -- I don't want it -- it's too far away

1296
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:57,000
and not a transition.

1297
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,019
It's a little bit of a contradiction for folks that are

1298
01:04:00,019 --> 01:04:03,130
trying to do business as a commission to give that mixed

1299
01:04:03,130 --> 01:04:04,000
message.

1300
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,000
And so, you know, it's currently zoned.

1301
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:08,000
And I want to pose a question.

1302
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:10,559
Do we know what height that they're proposing to build on

1303
01:04:10,559 --> 01:04:11,000
there?

1304
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:14,300
Do we have a guide into that particular -- I'm sure as far

1305
01:04:14,300 --> 01:04:17,000
as they are, they've already got plans.

1306
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:20,429
And I know we can't consider that as part of our motion

1307
01:04:20,429 --> 01:04:24,239
unless we know that they already have some other plan that

1308
01:04:24,239 --> 01:04:26,000
we can put a cap or something like that.

1309
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,000
An overlay. It can't be a maximum height.

1310
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,150
Do we know how tall the building is that they're currently

1311
01:04:31,150 --> 01:04:32,000
proposing?

1312
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:34,590
>> Chairperson Strange, I'm sure the applicant will have

1313
01:04:34,590 --> 01:04:36,000
information related to that.

1314
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,960
We understood that what the use is with the intended use or

1315
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:42,000
the primary use of the property that it was permitted.

1316
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:45,000
So we didn't tackle the height of the building.

1317
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:49,539
As you are aware, there is significant commentary from our

1318
01:04:49,539 --> 01:04:53,000
community as to what they think of the use.

1319
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:57,550
Again, we had to be very considerate of what the request

1320
01:04:57,550 --> 01:04:59,000
was before us.

1321
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:01,559
So I'm sure the applicant will have more information as it

1322
01:05:01,559 --> 01:05:04,000
relates to specificity associated with their project.

1323
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:07,900
And with that, if the commission is looking at adding or

1324
01:05:07,900 --> 01:05:11,000
incorporating some type of, as you mentioned,

1325
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:14,000
a cap or an overlay for the lack of a better word,

1326
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:16,000
restriction,

1327
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:18,590
then that is the opportunity that the commission can

1328
01:05:18,590 --> 01:05:21,000
discuss as well at regular meeting probably.

1329
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:25,000
>> Okay. Quick question before we close.

1330
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:28,510
>> Quick question. Quick response pretty much to what you

1331
01:05:28,510 --> 01:05:29,000
said.

1332
01:05:29,000 --> 01:05:32,300
I understand that that makes it difficult when we have this

1333
01:05:32,300 --> 01:05:34,000
kind of assessment for us.

1334
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:38,389
But part of what needs to be incorporated in here and Manal

1335
01:05:38,389 --> 01:05:43,000
tapped on it is the area specific has to be factored into.

1336
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:46,440
The north side of the UNT campus is distinct in ways that

1337
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:49,000
other areas around the campus are not.

1338
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:53,000
I love this design. I love these kind of buildings.

1339
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:55,000
I think we need this kind of density.

1340
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:58,000
I just think there's a lot of other places it could go.

1341
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:00,000
So that's kind of the conflict I'm having with it there.

1342
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:02,000
Yeah, technically it's on that way.

1343
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:05,000
But look at the area where you're going to do that.

1344
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,590
It's going to have, in my opinion, more of a negative

1345
01:06:07,590 --> 01:06:10,489
impact there than it would say over on Eagle or west of

1346
01:06:10,489 --> 01:06:12,000
there and stuff like that.

1347
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,000
So that's why I'm raising some questions.

1348
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:17,760
>> Those are some of the elements that perhaps the

1349
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:19,000
commission can look at.

1350
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:21,809
But from a planning division standpoint, we purely looked

1351
01:06:21,809 --> 01:06:25,980
at the request itself, which was a request for a change in

1352
01:06:25,980 --> 01:06:27,000
zoning.

1353
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:32,000
>> With that, I'm going to close our work session at 628

1354
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,329
and we'll reconvene as quickly as we can in council

1355
01:06:34,329 --> 01:06:35,000
chambers.

1356
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:46,000
>> Okay, everybody quiet. We're about to start.

1357
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:49,000
Okay, starting in five, four, three.

1358
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:52,949
>> Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton Planning

1359
01:06:52,949 --> 01:06:58,000
and Zoning Commission meeting for February 22, 2017.

1360
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:02,260
This meeting has been dually posted and we have a quorum

1361
01:07:02,260 --> 01:07:03,000
present.

1362
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:06,000
And I'm going to call our meeting to order at 645.

1363
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,769
Our first order of business will be to stand and give the

1364
01:07:08,769 --> 01:07:11,000
pledge to the U.S. and Texas flags.

1365
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:16,820
>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of

1366
01:07:16,820 --> 01:07:22,000
America and to the republic for which it stands,

1367
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:27,079
one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice

1368
01:07:27,079 --> 01:07:28,000
for all.

1369
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:32,519
On the Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the United States

1370
01:07:32,519 --> 01:07:37,099
of America, one nation under God, with liberty and justice

1371
01:07:37,099 --> 01:07:38,000
for all.

1372
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:44,000
>> I want to apologize to everyone that we've gotten a

1373
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:49,329
little bit later start this evening than we were scheduled

1374
01:07:49,329 --> 01:07:50,000
for.

1375
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:54,000
We have a number of changes to our agenda this evening.

1376
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:59,329
First, I want to announce that our items D and E have both

1377
01:07:59,329 --> 01:08:04,000
been postponed and continued to March 8th.

1378
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,000
>> Do you have a comment?

1379
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:09,000
>> Of the public hearing, item four, D and E.

1380
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:11,869
So if you're here for those items, we want to let you know

1381
01:08:11,869 --> 01:08:15,000
that rather than sitting through the rest of our agenda.

1382
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:21,189
And with that announcement, we will move on to item 2A and

1383
01:08:21,189 --> 01:08:24,220
chair will entertain a motion on our minutes of February

1384
01:08:24,220 --> 01:08:25,000
the 8th.

1385
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:27,000
Commissioner Taylor.

1386
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:29,000
>> I move approval of our minutes.

1387
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:33,000
>> Commissioner Beck.

1388
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:34,000
>> Second.

1389
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:35,000
>> Okay.

1390
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:37,000
We have first and a second for approval.

1391
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:42,000
Any discussion?

1392
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:44,000
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

1393
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:56,000
That motion carries 5-0.

1394
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:59,000
That will move us to our consent agenda.

1395
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:07,000
Chair would entertain a motion on our, Commissioner Beck.

1396
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:10,000
>> I move we approve consent agenda.

1397
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:11,000
>> Okay.

1398
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:12,000
Commissioner Ellis.

1399
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:13,000
>> Second.

1400
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:14,000
>> Okay.

1401
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:16,000
We have first and a second for approval.

1402
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:18,000
Any discussion on the consent agenda?

1403
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,000
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

1404
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:34,000
That motion carries 5-0 as well.

1405
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:39,609
That will move us to item 4, which is our public hearing

1406
01:09:39,609 --> 01:09:41,000
sections.

1407
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:45,390
I, as chair, have a conflict of interest on item A as I own

1408
01:09:45,390 --> 01:09:49,000
property across the street from this item.

1409
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:52,609
So at this time, I'm going to step away and recuse myself

1410
01:09:52,609 --> 01:09:56,149
and turn the dais over to our vice chair, Commissioner

1411
01:09:56,149 --> 01:09:57,000
Taylor.

1412
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:01,000
>> I hear all your cards.

1413
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:15,000
>> Good evening.

1414
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:22,489
Our current item is public hearing 4A, FR16-0023, a public

1415
01:10:22,489 --> 01:10:25,819
hearing considering a request for final replat of lots 1

1416
01:10:25,819 --> 01:10:28,000
and 2, block B of the Hale Estates.

1417
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:31,000
Do we have a staff presentation?

1418
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:35,000
>> We have to open the public hearing.

1419
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:36,000
>> I'm sorry.

1420
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:37,000
I'm sorry.

1421
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:38,000
I will open the public hearing at this time.

1422
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:49,000
>> Haley Zikorski, our planner with the planning division,

1423
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:52,000
a quick presentation related to this final reply.

1424
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,000
And the applicant is also present, vice chair.

1425
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:06,439
>> Yes, FR16-23 is a replat of lot 1, block B of the Montec

1426
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:10,000
ito's addition.

1427
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:13,000
And they're proposing to plot this one lot into two.

1428
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:16,000
It would be lots 1 and 2, block B of the Hale Estates.

1429
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:19,010
The property is generally located at the corner of Santa

1430
01:11:19,010 --> 01:11:21,000
Monica Drive and El Paseo Street.

1431
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:22,000
And I can answer any questions.

1432
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:28,000
>> Do we have any questions of staff?

1433
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:36,000
>> I do have a card from the applicant.

1434
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:39,000
Is Steve Hale in the audience?

1435
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:40,000
Would you care to come forward and speak?

1436
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:41,000
>> Sure.

1437
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:44,899
>> And please state your name and address when you get to

1438
01:11:44,899 --> 01:11:46,000
the podium.

1439
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:56,000
>> Steve Hale, 3401 Santa Monica here in Denton.

1440
01:11:56,000 --> 01:12:03,000
Mr. Chairman, members, thank you for allowing me to speak.

1441
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:05,550
I think I need to speak not only to you all, but I think I

1442
01:12:05,550 --> 01:12:08,659
see some of my neighbors out here, which have come, I guess

1443
01:12:08,659 --> 01:12:09,000
.

1444
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:11,590
Would you all mind raising your hand if you're here on this

1445
01:12:11,590 --> 01:12:12,000
deal?

1446
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:14,000
I know Doug and some of you folks.

1447
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:17,000
I appreciate you all coming out.

1448
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:18,659
If I know there's such an interest, we would have talked

1449
01:12:18,659 --> 01:12:20,000
about this at the last Christmas party.

1450
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:22,000
>> If you could speak into the microphone.

1451
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:26,130
>> But we didn't get an invitation for it, but if you all

1452
01:12:26,130 --> 01:12:27,000
had one.

1453
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:28,670
But anyway, just want to briefly, you know what we're doing

1454
01:12:28,670 --> 01:12:29,000
here.

1455
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:31,000
We're trying to split the lot.

1456
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:33,590
When Karen and I inherited, and that's my wife Karen right

1457
01:12:33,590 --> 01:12:36,779
there, we sort of inherited this property about nine years

1458
01:12:36,779 --> 01:12:37,000
ago.

1459
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:40,000
And we knew it was a pretty good size.

1460
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:42,000
And we knew it had a dam on it.

1461
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:45,010
And the property includes the dam and a good portion of

1462
01:12:45,010 --> 01:12:48,439
that pond down there, I guess, if you're all familiar with

1463
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:49,000
that.

1464
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:55,000
And -- excuse me.

1465
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:57,000
For the first couple of years, it was kind of fun.

1466
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:59,000
A lot of room back there and a lot of things to do.

1467
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:02,439
But over the years, it's turned into a little less fun and

1468
01:13:02,439 --> 01:13:06,000
more expense to maintain all that property back there.

1469
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:11,329
I don't know if many of my neighbors are aware of this, but

1470
01:13:11,329 --> 01:13:16,000
these Texas -- TCEQ, Texas Commission on Environmental

1471
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:17,000
Quality,

1472
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:20,000
has oversight over that dam.

1473
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,000
And I get a report from them every couple of years.

1474
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:25,000
They come out and do an inspection and so on.

1475
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:28,680
And anybody that had been dealing with them for several

1476
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:31,180
years on this thing had mentioned it from time to time to

1477
01:13:31,180 --> 01:13:32,000
some of the neighbors,

1478
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:37,000
but they don't seem to be too interested in that issue.

1479
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:41,159
The last report I got from the -- last year from the TCEQ

1480
01:13:41,159 --> 01:13:45,000
is requiring engineering studies of the dam,

1481
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:50,479
is requiring an emergency action plan, all this kind of

1482
01:13:50,479 --> 01:13:53,060
stuff that we're going to have to be out of pocket for

1483
01:13:53,060 --> 01:13:54,000
quite a bit,

1484
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:57,439
hiring engineers and so on to have all this stuff done back

1485
01:13:57,439 --> 01:13:58,000
there,

1486
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:01,710
probably costing anywhere from $50,000 to $100,000 to get

1487
01:14:01,710 --> 01:14:04,000
all this thing brought up to their requirements.

1488
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:08,090
So we decided it's been more work than we wanted to do

1489
01:14:08,090 --> 01:14:09,000
anyway.

1490
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:11,590
I'm tired of going back there and having to pull out the

1491
01:14:11,590 --> 01:14:14,000
branches that the beavers bring in every night,

1492
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:16,000
every day when I get home from work.

1493
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:19,000
And it just turned out we're not getting younger.

1494
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:22,000
So we thought one of the things we needed to do was see if

1495
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:27,000
we could just divide the property and get it sold.

1496
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:32,479
We spoke to a builder in the area, and he was interested in

1497
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:35,000
looking at it as a lot.

1498
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:41,840
And so I told him, I said, before we go any further with it

1499
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:42,000
,

1500
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:47,989
our neighbor across the street, across El Paso, Kevin Nelms

1501
01:14:47,989 --> 01:14:48,000
,

1502
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:51,649
had expressed an interest a long time ago about buying the

1503
01:14:51,649 --> 01:14:54,000
property back there if we were ever interested in selling.

1504
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:57,060
So I went to Kevin and I said, this is what we're thinking

1505
01:14:57,060 --> 01:14:58,000
about doing.

1506
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:00,000
And he said, yeah, he'd be interested.

1507
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,000
And he decided he'd like to buy it.

1508
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:05,000
So we did a handshake on the deal.

1509
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:07,000
And that was eight or nine months ago.

1510
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:11,000
And I didn't realize this process took quite so long.

1511
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:13,000
But Kevin is still interested.

1512
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:16,000
In fact, Kevin's here.

1513
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:19,239
I did get a call from one of the neighbors the other

1514
01:15:19,239 --> 01:15:20,000
morning,

1515
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,880
a fellow we know, and he was interested in knowing what

1516
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:25,000
Kevin's going to do with the property.

1517
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:29,000
I told him I had no idea about it.

1518
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:30,000
He understands what's going on.

1519
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:33,000
I've shared all the information from the TCEQ with Kevin.

1520
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:37,430
Kevin has the ability and the wherewithal, and he's younger

1521
01:15:37,430 --> 01:15:39,000
than me and all that, to go in there.

1522
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:42,439
And he has crews with a lot of time to go in there and fix

1523
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:45,739
that dam up and take care of what needs to be taken care of

1524
01:15:45,739 --> 01:15:46,000
.

1525
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:48,550
I'm not as interested -- I know that everybody's interested

1526
01:15:48,550 --> 01:15:51,020
in knowing what Kevin's going to do back there with that

1527
01:15:51,020 --> 01:15:52,000
property.

1528
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:55,260
But to be honest with you, I'm less concerned about what

1529
01:15:55,260 --> 01:15:58,000
might happen if he wants to build something back there,

1530
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:02,000
even though the property is all flood plain now.

1531
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:04,850
I think it's been -- the way that it's been redone, it's

1532
01:16:04,850 --> 01:16:06,000
all flood plain.

1533
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:10,460
So I don't know what he could build, but my main concern is

1534
01:16:10,460 --> 01:16:13,000
for the people who are downstream.

1535
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:15,409
And that dam needs to be fixed, and it's going to be very

1536
01:16:15,409 --> 01:16:19,210
expensive, and it's going to be very time consuming to get

1537
01:16:19,210 --> 01:16:20,000
all that work done.

1538
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:23,739
But Kevin happens to be the first person who lives

1539
01:16:23,739 --> 01:16:26,000
downstream from that dam.

1540
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:29,340
So he has the most vested interest of anybody in the city

1541
01:16:29,340 --> 01:16:34,000
of Denton as to what's going to happen with that property.

1542
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:37,100
So Kevin definitely has an interest in making sure that the

1543
01:16:37,100 --> 01:16:41,399
dam is repaired so it doesn't breach and flow down and

1544
01:16:41,399 --> 01:16:45,000
damage his property and so on.

1545
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:49,000
But anyway, I think at that point, that's all I have.

1546
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:52,470
And I think Kevin's going to speak here in a little bit if

1547
01:16:52,470 --> 01:16:56,000
somebody has any questions as to what his plans are.

1548
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:58,000
Do you all have any questions of me?

1549
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:01,000
Yes, we do have one question. Commissioner Beck?

1550
01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:03,000
Thank you, Vice Chair.

1551
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:05,369
I appreciate you coming down and speaking, Mr. Hill, and I

1552
01:17:05,369 --> 01:17:08,600
empathize with your situation here, getting kind of stuck

1553
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:09,000
with that.

1554
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:12,000
And I don't blame you for it.

1555
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:16,050
But it was kind of puzzling to us, you know, why the split

1556
01:17:16,050 --> 01:17:19,840
was there and the fact that there isn't much you can build

1557
01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:22,000
on because it is a flood plain.

1558
01:17:22,000 --> 01:17:24,869
So I hope Kevin does indeed have some good plans for it

1559
01:17:24,869 --> 01:17:28,000
because first I'd like to see you get off the hook from it.

1560
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:33,000
And perhaps this piece of land serve a useful purpose.

1561
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:35,000
Yes.

1562
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:38,000
Well, Kevin's kitchen window looks out onto the property.

1563
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:41,000
So that's what they look at all the time out their window.

1564
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:44,149
There just happens to be a street between him and this

1565
01:17:44,149 --> 01:17:45,000
property.

1566
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:46,000
And that's about it.

1567
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:48,000
Have you approached the city at all?

1568
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:51,010
Maybe they might have some interest in it as a small park

1569
01:17:51,010 --> 01:17:52,000
or something?

1570
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:53,000
No.

1571
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:58,819
I spoke with your emergency planner, your emergency guy, Mr

1572
01:17:58,819 --> 01:18:00,000
. Pena.

1573
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:03,449
Anyway, one time when I was trying to work up this

1574
01:18:03,449 --> 01:18:07,619
emergency action plan myself and he didn't seem to express

1575
01:18:07,619 --> 01:18:10,000
any interest in the property.

1576
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:11,000
Okay.

1577
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:12,000
Thank you, Mr. Hill.

1578
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:14,000
Anybody else?

1579
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:15,000
Okay.

1580
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:17,000
Thank you.

1581
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:20,000
This is a public hearing and I have several cards already.

1582
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:22,760
If anybody would like to speak either in opposition or

1583
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:26,979
support of this issue, please fill out a blue card and give

1584
01:18:26,979 --> 01:18:29,000
it to our secretary.

1585
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:32,000
Our next speaker is Kevin Nelms.

1586
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:37,680
Please come forward and state your name and address and you

1587
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:41,000
'll have four minutes to speak.

1588
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:42,000
My name is Kevin Nelms.

1589
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:48,560
I live at 3403 Shadowbrook Court across the street from him

1590
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:49,000
.

1591
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:52,000
Is that's all my name and address?

1592
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:53,000
Okay.

1593
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:56,000
And people are wondering what I want to do with this.

1594
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:59,909
Well, first of all, like Steve says, I look out and it's

1595
01:18:59,909 --> 01:19:02,989
not very pretty right now because there's a bunch of trees

1596
01:19:02,989 --> 01:19:04,000
falling down.

1597
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:06,000
There's trees over the dam.

1598
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:11,899
And now we were scheduled for the agenda for selling 40

1599
01:19:11,899 --> 01:19:15,000
acres over on Mayhill Road.

1600
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:19,649
That's my farm over there and I've got a bunch of equipment

1601
01:19:19,649 --> 01:19:20,000
.

1602
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:21,000
I've got the people.

1603
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:24,000
I've got the resources to fix the thing up.

1604
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:27,000
And basically what I want to do is look nice.

1605
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:29,590
And my little eight-year-old, he likes to go over there and

1606
01:19:29,590 --> 01:19:30,000
play.

1607
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:34,000
And people are dumping rocks over there and everything.

1608
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:36,000
I just want to make it look nice.

1609
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:38,760
And I really don't know what I want to do with the property

1610
01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:39,000
.

1611
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:41,680
But I just want to get it cleaned up and I can get a nice

1612
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:43,000
view across the lake.

1613
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:46,000
There's a bunch of trees that need to cut down.

1614
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:48,000
There's a bunch of trees dying.

1615
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:55,000
And that's it.

1616
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:57,000
Does anybody have any questions?

1617
01:19:57,000 --> 01:20:00,000
No questions.

1618
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:01,000
No questions.

1619
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:02,000
Thank you.

1620
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:03,000
No questions?

1621
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:04,000
Okay. Thank you.

1622
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:05,000
Thanks for hearing me.

1623
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:17,000
And our next speaker is Douglas Ebersole.

1624
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:18,000
I'm Doug Ebersole.

1625
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:21,000
I live at 3210 Montecito Road.

1626
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:25,000
And my property backs up on the lake.

1627
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:29,000
We have a view of the lake and the dam.

1628
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:34,329
First of all, I'm surprised there's such an absence of

1629
01:20:34,329 --> 01:20:38,000
history about the lake.

1630
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:39,000
This goes way back.

1631
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:40,000
We lived there since '84.

1632
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:46,439
And the neighbors behind that came there before us have

1633
01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:49,000
worked hard to maintain this lake for decades.

1634
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:52,539
As a matter of fact, the person who used to live in their

1635
01:20:52,539 --> 01:20:55,000
house used to have to go down to Austin

1636
01:20:55,000 --> 01:20:59,300
with several neighbors to protect the lake and the dam from

1637
01:20:59,300 --> 01:21:02,729
the desire of the Texas Resources Commission to tear it out

1638
01:21:02,729 --> 01:21:03,000
.

1639
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:06,100
And it's no secret that the Texas Resources Commission as

1640
01:21:06,100 --> 01:21:08,000
well as the city of Denton would like that dam gone.

1641
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:13,000
It would solve their -- it's a dammed up drainage easement.

1642
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:16,359
But we established grandfather rights for that with the

1643
01:21:16,359 --> 01:21:18,000
Resources Commission.

1644
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:19,000
And it's passed on.

1645
01:21:19,000 --> 01:21:24,329
And now when I moved in, six months after I moved in, the

1646
01:21:24,329 --> 01:21:26,000
dam washed out.

1647
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:28,000
That was a total surprise to me.

1648
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:30,689
So the first thing we did was form a neighborhood

1649
01:21:30,689 --> 01:21:34,000
association of the lake owners back in 1984.

1650
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:35,000
And we got together.

1651
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:36,000
We had meetings.

1652
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:42,170
And we pooled some funds, hired an engineer to rebuild the

1653
01:21:42,170 --> 01:21:43,000
dam.

1654
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:48,199
And we have rebuilt it at least four times during the time

1655
01:21:48,199 --> 01:21:50,000
I've been there.

1656
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:53,000
And I've been the instigator of that all this time.

1657
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:55,000
I have led that group.

1658
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:58,590
And I established the Homeowner's Association and led that

1659
01:21:58,590 --> 01:22:02,630
up until about seven or eight years ago when I dissolved

1660
01:22:02,630 --> 01:22:05,000
the association.

1661
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:08,319
But we had done a lot of work on that as a cooperative

1662
01:22:08,319 --> 01:22:09,000
group.

1663
01:22:09,000 --> 01:22:14,039
And I'm surprised that what is happening here -- this is my

1664
01:22:14,039 --> 01:22:18,000
first knowledge of it a week or two ago.

1665
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:23,359
And absent any information that they might have sought to

1666
01:22:23,359 --> 01:22:28,159
talk to the neighbors about and clue us in what you want to

1667
01:22:28,159 --> 01:22:29,000
do there,

1668
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:33,800
I have to oppose this because this would subdivide -- this

1669
01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:37,000
is subdividing a lot in Montecito.

1670
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:41,310
This lot -- this addition was established back in the '60s

1671
01:22:41,310 --> 01:22:45,000
by Bob Nichols after Montecito in Santa Barbara.

1672
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:47,000
And these are large lots.

1673
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:51,000
They're large lots inside the city limits.

1674
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:54,000
It's a unique place.

1675
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:57,510
It has character and qualities that you don't find anyplace

1676
01:22:57,510 --> 01:22:58,000
else.

1677
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:01,310
And to subdivide this would set a terrible precedent, which

1678
01:23:01,310 --> 01:23:04,449
this could be done anyplace in the subdivision, behind my

1679
01:23:04,449 --> 01:23:06,000
house, behind other houses.

1680
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:12,000
And I have multifamily or SR3.

1681
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:14,000
Who knows what could happen.

1682
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:19,000
And this would be a terrible precedent in my opinion.

1683
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:24,329
Finally, in subdividing this to sell it off because there's

1684
01:23:24,329 --> 01:23:26,000
a problem there.

1685
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:29,279
Well, eight years -- actually, I think last time I got the

1686
01:23:29,279 --> 01:23:32,449
city to come down and clean that easement out, it was four

1687
01:23:32,449 --> 01:23:33,000
years ago.

1688
01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:35,109
It was -- you think it's full of trees now, it was really

1689
01:23:35,109 --> 01:23:36,000
full of stuff then.

1690
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:38,359
They cleaned that whole thing out and regraded the whole

1691
01:23:38,359 --> 01:23:39,000
ditch there.

1692
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:41,000
And that was because of me.

1693
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:43,000
I persuaded them to come down and do that.

1694
01:23:43,000 --> 01:23:45,000
We've had the lake dredged before.

1695
01:23:45,000 --> 01:23:48,439
The city has participated in that and dredged it all the

1696
01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:50,000
way up to Hobson Lane.

1697
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:52,689
The easement -- there's been a lot of cooperation and

1698
01:23:52,689 --> 01:23:55,000
participation over the last many years.

1699
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:57,960
And because we haven't done anything lately, it's because I

1700
01:23:57,960 --> 01:24:00,000
didn't know if there's any big issues.

1701
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:05,000
The dam has held and that's really remarkable.

1702
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:08,850
And it's really a credit to the people who got together as

1703
01:24:08,850 --> 01:24:12,609
a neighborhood and designed it and engineered it and funded

1704
01:24:12,609 --> 01:24:13,000
it.

1705
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:17,640
This has all been paid for by neighbors who have cooperated

1706
01:24:17,640 --> 01:24:18,000
.

1707
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:21,819
This is history that some people don't seem to know or

1708
01:24:21,819 --> 01:24:23,000
appreciate.

1709
01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:28,380
But finally, relinquishing control bothers me a lot to rel

1710
01:24:28,380 --> 01:24:32,229
inquish control of that area with the dam to someone who

1711
01:24:32,229 --> 01:24:34,000
does not live on the lake.

1712
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:36,000
Now, this is a verbal agreement.

1713
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:37,000
There's no contract.

1714
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:39,000
What you say you're going to do, I don't know that.

1715
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:42,359
But I would hate to see something built down there in the

1716
01:24:42,359 --> 01:24:46,000
floodplain that had to be elevated and tower over the lake.

1717
01:24:46,000 --> 01:24:49,210
Plus, giving control to someone who doesn't live there, you

1718
01:24:49,210 --> 01:24:51,000
may pass it on to somebody else.

1719
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:53,479
And if it gets turned over to the Texas Water Resources or

1720
01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:56,329
the City of Denton eventually, you'll take it out because

1721
01:24:56,329 --> 01:24:58,000
it makes our job easier without that dam there.

1722
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:00,479
And then that would be turned into a big snake pit back

1723
01:25:00,479 --> 01:25:02,000
there, which would happen.

1724
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:03,000
It's happened before.

1725
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:05,000
The lakes have been washed out many times.

1726
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:07,000
And it's not pretty when it happens.

1727
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:09,760
This is meaningful to the whole side of town, to the whole

1728
01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:12,000
neighborhood, not just the lake owners.

1729
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:18,279
That needs to be preserved and maintained and not subdivid

1730
01:25:18,279 --> 01:25:19,000
ed.

1731
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:23,000
Thank you, sir.

1732
01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:31,060
Our next speaker is -- we have some -- I'm sorry, we have

1733
01:25:31,060 --> 01:25:34,000
some questions.

1734
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:37,529
Should we -- would it be okay if we finished the public

1735
01:25:37,529 --> 01:25:41,000
hearing, or do you want to give the comment now?

1736
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:46,000
Okay, so Commissioner Hudspeth.

1737
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:50,000
Thank you, Acting Chair.

1738
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:58,060
Earl, may I borrow you to put up the graphic that shows --

1739
01:25:58,060 --> 01:26:03,489
and kind of demonstrate what's available as is so that we

1740
01:26:03,489 --> 01:26:07,000
can frame what can be done on the property

1741
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:12,960
and kind of understand what's available to whoever would

1742
01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:15,000
buy that parcel.

1743
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:18,699
Let me see if I can -- I'm sorry, let me see if I can clean

1744
01:26:18,699 --> 01:26:20,000
this up, too.

1745
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:21,000
Thank you.

1746
01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:26,000
I don't know why it's grayed out like this.

1747
01:26:26,000 --> 01:26:31,000
That's not it.

1748
01:26:31,000 --> 01:26:47,000
[inaudible]

1749
01:26:47,000 --> 01:27:16,000
Can I just close on that?

1750
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:17,000
Good evening.

1751
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:21,000
My name is Earl Escobar, Engineering Department.

1752
01:27:21,000 --> 01:27:25,829
Trying to zoom in to help pinpoint what exactly is not enc

1753
01:27:25,829 --> 01:27:30,000
umbered by easements within this lot, too.

1754
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:34,000
And if you could follow my cursor.

1755
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:39,329
I think you had a -- in work session, you had one that was

1756
01:27:39,329 --> 01:27:41,000
kind of zoomed in.

1757
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:42,000
Right.

1758
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:45,710
And that's the reason this program's not letting me zoom in

1759
01:27:45,710 --> 01:27:46,000
.

1760
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:47,000
Got it.

1761
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:56,000
Well, maybe.

1762
01:27:56,000 --> 01:27:58,000
That didn't work.

1763
01:27:58,000 --> 01:27:59,000
I apologize.

1764
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:00,000
Okay.

1765
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:03,840
But if you could follow my cursor, this little triangular

1766
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:07,460
area is pretty much the only portion of this lot that's not

1767
01:28:07,460 --> 01:28:09,000
encumbered by any easements,

1768
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:13,000
drainage or utility or whatnot.

1769
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:17,729
And if you had to give me a round number, since it's harder

1770
01:28:17,729 --> 01:28:22,000
to see, round number -- amount of space that is?

1771
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:26,850
I would say it's about a -- I don't know, say 40 by 100-

1772
01:28:26,850 --> 01:28:30,000
foot area, triangular-shaped area.

1773
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:33,729
So of everything in that, you were talking round numbers,

1774
01:28:33,729 --> 01:28:38,250
not holding you to it, 40 to 100-ish space that's available

1775
01:28:38,250 --> 01:28:39,000
that's not --

1776
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:42,000
That's not encumbered by any floodplain or easements.

1777
01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:43,000
Right.

1778
01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:44,000
Okay.

1779
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:45,000
That's deemed developable.

1780
01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:46,000
Got it.

1781
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:47,000
Thank you.

1782
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:50,000
That's helpful.

1783
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:56,000
Thank you, Chair.

1784
01:28:56,000 --> 01:28:58,000
Commissioner Beck.

1785
01:28:58,000 --> 01:28:59,000
Thank you, Vice Chair.

1786
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:03,000
Mr. Ebbersol, can I get you to come back down, sir?

1787
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:10,000
Can I get you to come back down, please?

1788
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:12,000
Thank you.

1789
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:13,760
I understand your concern here, and I appreciate you

1790
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:16,079
sharing that information you did, because I wasn't even

1791
01:29:16,079 --> 01:29:18,000
aware there was a lake over there.

1792
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:19,000
That's just the tip of the iceberg.

1793
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:20,000
Yeah.

1794
01:29:20,000 --> 01:29:23,800
But my question to you would be, how do you alleviate the

1795
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:27,710
situation Mr. Hill is facing right now, the financial

1796
01:29:27,710 --> 01:29:31,250
burden this is, if he can't split this property off and

1797
01:29:31,250 --> 01:29:32,000
sell it?

1798
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:36,000
I understand your concern for it, and I empathize with you.

1799
01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:38,000
But I find myself empathizing with him, too.

1800
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:41,000
So how do you reconcile that?

1801
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:43,000
Is there a way to get --

1802
01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:46,989
First of all, as I just said, I worked with the city

1803
01:29:46,989 --> 01:29:51,270
drainage department to have that cleared out, I can't

1804
01:29:51,270 --> 01:29:54,170
remember, it was three or four years ago, and cleaned up,

1805
01:29:54,170 --> 01:29:58,000
and they graded the entire easement there between El Paseo

1806
01:29:58,000 --> 01:29:59,000
and the dam.

1807
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:01,000
It's totally regraded and cleared out.

1808
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:04,000
Now, nothing's permanent.

1809
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:05,000
Everything changes.

1810
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:08,430
That's an ecosystem that keeps on changing, so it needs

1811
01:30:08,430 --> 01:30:10,000
constant attention.

1812
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:14,100
But the neighbors, like I said, we had a homeowners

1813
01:30:14,100 --> 01:30:19,220
association, we got together over 20 years to rebuild,

1814
01:30:19,220 --> 01:30:21,000
design, build it.

1815
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:25,250
The house on the corner behind you, across the lake, half

1816
01:30:25,250 --> 01:30:29,260
the dirt on their property was brought out of the lake,

1817
01:30:29,260 --> 01:30:33,000
same way on the lot next to you on El Paseo there.

1818
01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:36,569
That was all fill, it was taken out of the lake because

1819
01:30:36,569 --> 01:30:40,359
those neighbors cooperated and let us put it there when we

1820
01:30:40,359 --> 01:30:43,000
cleaned out the lake and dredged it.

1821
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:45,000
And this is all done at our expense.

1822
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:47,699
And the neighbors cooperated to do that, and that would

1823
01:30:47,699 --> 01:30:49,000
have to be done again.

1824
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:51,000
I've done this for decades.

1825
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:54,000
I'm not the person to spearhead it again.

1826
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:56,000
We need younger people to do it.

1827
01:30:56,000 --> 01:30:58,000
That's how it happened before, and it should happen again.

1828
01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:01,100
It's first my knowledge that you've been spending some

1829
01:31:01,100 --> 01:31:03,000
money on it and to maintain it.

1830
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:04,000
I didn't know that.

1831
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:07,289
If I had been made part of the loop, then I would have

1832
01:31:07,289 --> 01:31:10,000
helped and got neighborhood support.

1833
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:11,000
That's how it's happened.

1834
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:14,000
That's how it happens to other neighbors around the city.

1835
01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:15,000
Well, I agree.

1836
01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:17,960
I think if you could get this organized again where

1837
01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:20,000
everybody could pitch in because it just --

1838
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:21,000
Well, we've done it.

1839
01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:24,000
We've done it since 1984 and before I got there.

1840
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:26,000
But it's nonexistent right now.

1841
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:27,000
Is that correct?

1842
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:28,000
Okay.

1843
01:31:28,000 --> 01:31:29,989
And right now the financial burden to maintain it is

1844
01:31:29,989 --> 01:31:31,000
falling on Mr. Hill.

1845
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:34,000
It's not clear to me what that burden exactly is right now.

1846
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:35,000
Okay.

1847
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:37,050
As a matter of fact, we had -- I paid a guy to go down

1848
01:31:37,050 --> 01:31:39,000
there and fix the dam last summer.

1849
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:43,170
He took the boards out and rewelded the sides of the dam

1850
01:31:43,170 --> 01:31:44,000
there.

1851
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:47,000
And I paid -- my next door neighbor and I paid for that.

1852
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:49,000
I got it.

1853
01:31:49,000 --> 01:31:50,000
Yeah, you did.

1854
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:51,000
You paid a third of it.

1855
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:52,000
I'm sorry.

1856
01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:53,000
Yeah.

1857
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:54,000
The three of us.

1858
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:55,000
That's the only three.

1859
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:56,000
There's 11 property owners on the lake.

1860
01:31:56,000 --> 01:32:00,010
I didn't even bother to talk to him about that because it

1861
01:32:00,010 --> 01:32:02,000
wasn't that big a deal.

1862
01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:06,000
Well, it puts us kind of in a quandary.

1863
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:08,619
It seems to vote on something that has some benefit and it

1864
01:32:08,619 --> 01:32:12,000
could probably be salvaged if everybody pitched in.

1865
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:15,000
But unless that happens, the onus falls on Mr. Hill at this

1866
01:32:15,000 --> 01:32:15,000
point.

1867
01:32:15,000 --> 01:32:18,329
So I don't know how we reconcile that here tonight unless

1868
01:32:18,329 --> 01:32:20,000
we just don't vote on it.

1869
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:23,279
Well, I don't either because this is -- up until last week,

1870
01:32:23,279 --> 01:32:25,000
I had no idea about this.

1871
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:26,000
Okay.

1872
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:30,000
Thank you.

1873
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:31,000
So this is a public hearing.

1874
01:32:31,000 --> 01:32:34,159
Anybody that wishes to speak in favor or against can submit

1875
01:32:34,159 --> 01:32:35,000
a blue card.

1876
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:38,000
I have two more cards wishing to speak.

1877
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:52,000
Michael Doransky will be followed by Weaver McClure.

1878
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:56,000
Doransky at 2911 Montecito here in Denton.

1879
01:32:56,000 --> 01:32:58,960
First of all, I don't think we'd kind of be here today if

1880
01:32:58,960 --> 01:33:01,329
we'd actually had probably a neighborhood meeting to

1881
01:33:01,329 --> 01:33:05,670
discuss the issues with this property or the issues that

1882
01:33:05,670 --> 01:33:08,000
they're facing with this piece of property.

1883
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:11,000
But we didn't have said meetings.

1884
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:13,560
So a lot of times for -- like with Doug and I, we're

1885
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:16,000
hearing a lot of these things for the first time.

1886
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:19,560
And I'm sure a lot of people are going to get hurt tonight

1887
01:33:19,560 --> 01:33:23,329
in their feelings of opposition or for this piece because

1888
01:33:23,329 --> 01:33:27,000
we did not have said meeting ahead of time for this.

1889
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:30,149
So we didn't have a neighborhood go, okay, we are all for

1890
01:33:30,149 --> 01:33:33,100
this or all against this, but it still has -- it got to

1891
01:33:33,100 --> 01:33:34,000
this point.

1892
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:36,630
Our subdivision was founded with a set of covenants and

1893
01:33:36,630 --> 01:33:39,329
number eight of those covenants was says you just cannot

1894
01:33:39,329 --> 01:33:41,000
subdivide the properties.

1895
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:44,000
And that's exactly what's going on here today.

1896
01:33:44,000 --> 01:33:49,329
And regardless of these pieces, if we allow them to subdiv

1897
01:33:49,329 --> 01:33:53,220
ide, that's not -- that will then set a precedent for other

1898
01:33:53,220 --> 01:33:57,000
people to go, well, they subdivided, I want to subdivide.

1899
01:33:57,000 --> 01:34:00,050
And now other properties could just get torn down with

1900
01:34:00,050 --> 01:34:03,000
these lots that are three to five acres in size.

1901
01:34:03,000 --> 01:34:06,630
And you could put a ton more houses in just by tearing down

1902
01:34:06,630 --> 01:34:10,260
one house and continue to build out if we allow one person

1903
01:34:10,260 --> 01:34:13,960
to subdivide and allow then other lots to be subdivided by

1904
01:34:13,960 --> 01:34:16,000
setting that precedent.

1905
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:18,000
The subdivision would never look the same.

1906
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:21,789
And as Doug has pointed out, it's a very unique area and

1907
01:34:21,789 --> 01:34:25,000
the people there have a love for that area.

1908
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:28,159
And I think that it's within our best interest to maintain

1909
01:34:28,159 --> 01:34:31,329
the integrity of what the covenants had established that

1910
01:34:31,329 --> 01:34:35,000
these properties would not be subdivided into these pieces.

1911
01:34:35,000 --> 01:34:38,010
And as, you know, I understand Kevin's point that he wants

1912
01:34:38,010 --> 01:34:40,350
to go out there and he wants to see the view of the

1913
01:34:40,350 --> 01:34:41,000
property.

1914
01:34:41,000 --> 01:34:44,250
And as Doug has pointed out, being neighborly, if he wants

1915
01:34:44,250 --> 01:34:47,310
to provide his own equipment to clear out these property

1916
01:34:47,310 --> 01:34:49,000
for him, I'm all for that.

1917
01:34:49,000 --> 01:34:53,000
But I still don't believe in subdividing this property.

1918
01:34:53,000 --> 01:34:55,199
And as Doug has pointed out, this property has a dam that

1919
01:34:55,199 --> 01:34:56,000
encompasses it.

1920
01:34:56,000 --> 01:34:59,609
And as he's informed me and I assume others, the city as

1921
01:34:59,609 --> 01:35:03,229
well as the state of Texas does not want to maintain that

1922
01:35:03,229 --> 01:35:06,000
dam and you don't want that dam at all.

1923
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:10,520
As part of that, if whatever is in this floodplain, the

1924
01:35:10,520 --> 01:35:15,069
lake could then be drained and then some of that property

1925
01:35:15,069 --> 01:35:19,199
would then fall out of a floodplain, allowing it to be

1926
01:35:19,199 --> 01:35:22,000
further developed into whatever that small sliver

1927
01:35:22,000 --> 01:35:24,560
into a larger piece or to whatever could be elevated off of

1928
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:25,000
there.

1929
01:35:25,000 --> 01:35:27,890
And when you drain or remove this dam off of there, the

1930
01:35:27,890 --> 01:35:30,000
property is further on down there.

1931
01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:33,800
We'll probably experience, I would assume, some larger ebbs

1932
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:37,880
and flows if we have heavy rainfall because that dam just

1933
01:35:37,880 --> 01:35:43,640
provides like a current or a coupling or what if you want

1934
01:35:43,640 --> 01:35:45,720
to call it to prevent said water from coming down there

1935
01:35:45,720 --> 01:35:49,100
because the lake allows water to fill up without rushing

1936
01:35:49,100 --> 01:35:51,000
down further off of there.

1937
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:54,220
So in conclusion, I would ask that the board deny the repl

1938
01:35:54,220 --> 01:35:57,670
at and maintain the integrity that the covenants originally

1939
01:35:57,670 --> 01:36:01,000
had established to not allow other subdivides in there.

1940
01:36:01,000 --> 01:36:03,689
And again, it would just set a precedent for other people

1941
01:36:03,689 --> 01:36:06,239
to want to do the same thing or for a new home builder to

1942
01:36:06,239 --> 01:36:09,699
come in and buy one piece of property and then be able to

1943
01:36:09,699 --> 01:36:15,000
build five houses or so on that one piece of property.

1944
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:17,479
I think the wildlife is important to maintain around there

1945
01:36:17,479 --> 01:36:19,939
and that could completely disappear depending on whatever

1946
01:36:19,939 --> 01:36:21,000
Kevin decides to do.

1947
01:36:21,000 --> 01:36:23,250
If he decides to sell it to somebody else after he's got

1948
01:36:23,250 --> 01:36:25,600
what he wanted for a view or if something should happen or

1949
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:28,680
it goes further down the line, I don't think there's any

1950
01:36:28,680 --> 01:36:33,079
type of guarantees that the people who live there can get

1951
01:36:33,079 --> 01:36:35,710
that would maybe reassure them that this is fine because

1952
01:36:35,710 --> 01:36:36,000
again,

1953
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:38,590
if comes further down the line that people could then

1954
01:36:38,590 --> 01:36:41,329
subdivide their own property or a home builder could come

1955
01:36:41,329 --> 01:36:44,060
in and ask for the same same considerations that they're

1956
01:36:44,060 --> 01:36:45,000
asking for.

1957
01:36:45,000 --> 01:36:50,000
Thank you.

1958
01:36:50,000 --> 01:37:02,000
So weaver McClure will be followed by Cassandra Cornell.

1959
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:07,670
My name is Weaver McClure. I'm 3100 Carmel. I'm in the Mont

1960
01:37:07,670 --> 01:37:09,000
ecito Addition Block C.

1961
01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:12,069
In 19, I don't know if you're familiar with the deed

1962
01:37:12,069 --> 01:37:15,159
restrictions on this property, on this property in the Mont

1963
01:37:15,159 --> 01:37:16,000
ecito Division.

1964
01:37:16,000 --> 01:37:22,000
There was a deed restriction Bob Nichols did back in 1965.

1965
01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:27,329
It was amended in 1966. The deed restrictions restrict

1966
01:37:27,329 --> 01:37:32,039
subdivisions of lots into smaller lots unless there's like

1967
01:37:32,039 --> 01:37:35,000
300 front feet to the street.

1968
01:37:35,000 --> 01:37:39,350
I don't think on Santa Monica there's 300 feet in length or

1969
01:37:39,350 --> 01:37:42,130
maybe, but I think on the side of El Paso there's probably

1970
01:37:42,130 --> 01:37:43,000
more than that.

1971
01:37:43,000 --> 01:37:48,000
So I guess it could be subdivided by the deed restrictions.

1972
01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:51,840
I'm in opposition to it unless the deed restrictions pass

1973
01:37:51,840 --> 01:37:56,000
along with, you know, with your approval.

1974
01:37:56,000 --> 01:38:01,750
The way it looks to me like the deed restrictions for Mont

1975
01:38:01,750 --> 01:38:05,000
ecito Division is there now.

1976
01:38:05,000 --> 01:38:08,560
If it's replatted, is that going to lift the deed

1977
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:13,000
restrictions that we have on the whole Montecito Addition?

1978
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:16,869
Because the way I'm reading this, it goes from Montecito

1979
01:38:16,869 --> 01:38:21,489
Addition Lot 13 Block B to the Hell of States Block, you

1980
01:38:21,489 --> 01:38:26,000
know, Lot 1 and 2 Block B.

1981
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:28,949
So that's a question that I have and I haven't got an

1982
01:38:28,949 --> 01:38:30,000
answer so far.

1983
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:33,699
Well, I think it's because the city is prohibited by state

1984
01:38:33,699 --> 01:38:37,159
law from enforcing any kind of restricted covenant that

1985
01:38:37,159 --> 01:38:40,000
might be on the property, which includes your HOA bylaws.

1986
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:44,000
So we can't enforce those bylaws.

1987
01:38:44,000 --> 01:38:47,539
We can only look at the application as it sits in front of

1988
01:38:47,539 --> 01:38:48,000
us.

1989
01:38:48,000 --> 01:38:50,000
So we don't have control over that.

1990
01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:52,289
That would be a separate civil action that you would have

1991
01:38:52,289 --> 01:38:54,000
to undergo that separated from this.

1992
01:38:54,000 --> 01:38:56,560
Do you know if you replat it though, if that deed

1993
01:38:56,560 --> 01:38:58,729
restriction, since you're changing the name of the subdiv

1994
01:38:58,729 --> 01:39:03,060
ision to Hell of States from Montecito Division, what that

1995
01:39:03,060 --> 01:39:04,000
does?

1996
01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:07,000
Does that take it out of the Montecito Estates Addition?

1997
01:39:07,000 --> 01:39:08,000
No, it would still be in it.

1998
01:39:08,000 --> 01:39:10,000
Even though it's called something different?

1999
01:39:10,000 --> 01:39:11,000
I don't know.

2000
01:39:11,000 --> 01:39:15,630
Because it's a replant of a specific lot within the Montec

2001
01:39:15,630 --> 01:39:19,899
ito Addition, it still remains within that parent subdiv

2002
01:39:19,899 --> 01:39:21,000
ision plant.

2003
01:39:21,000 --> 01:39:24,000
So it's not being removed from that parent tract.

2004
01:39:24,000 --> 01:39:26,789
However, as it relates to the implications of the deed

2005
01:39:26,789 --> 01:39:29,939
restrictions that you're referring to, that would be

2006
01:39:29,939 --> 01:39:32,000
between the, whether it's your HOA or neighborhood.

2007
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:33,000
Deed restriction committee?

2008
01:39:33,000 --> 01:39:36,439
Exactly, to discern what your bylaws are as it relates to

2009
01:39:36,439 --> 01:39:38,000
replanting property.

2010
01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:39,000
Okay.

2011
01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:41,000
Any questions?

2012
01:39:41,000 --> 01:39:45,000
Okay, thank you.

2013
01:39:45,000 --> 01:39:49,000
Thank you.

2014
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:51,000
Cassandra Cornell.

2015
01:39:51,000 --> 01:39:53,000
And that's all the cards I have that wish to speak.

2016
01:39:53,000 --> 01:39:56,539
If anybody else would like to speak on this matter, please

2017
01:39:56,539 --> 01:39:58,000
fill out a blue card.

2018
01:39:58,000 --> 01:39:59,000
Hi.

2019
01:39:59,000 --> 01:40:01,000
I'm at 3200 Montecito.

2020
01:40:01,000 --> 01:40:03,000
I live next door to Mr. Ebersole.

2021
01:40:03,000 --> 01:40:06,289
And I just wanted to let you know that when I bought my

2022
01:40:06,289 --> 01:40:10,170
house 15 years ago, it was made very clear to us that under

2023
01:40:10,170 --> 01:40:13,680
no circumstances were we ever allowed to subdivide our lots

2024
01:40:13,680 --> 01:40:14,000
.

2025
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:17,000
It was a declared bird sanctuary.

2026
01:40:17,000 --> 01:40:20,000
There's a lot of rare species that live there.

2027
01:40:20,000 --> 01:40:23,000
And we really, really protect and guard our lake.

2028
01:40:23,000 --> 01:40:26,939
I believe that maybe in this case there is a miscommun

2029
01:40:26,939 --> 01:40:31,569
ication because I do know that 15 years ago we also knew as

2030
01:40:31,569 --> 01:40:35,699
neighbors that if anything were to happen, we all worked

2031
01:40:35,699 --> 01:40:38,649
together to take care of our lake and to take care of our

2032
01:40:38,649 --> 01:40:40,000
animals and birds.

2033
01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:43,840
And I think that maybe through just attrition of properties

2034
01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:47,000
that that didn't get relayed somehow.

2035
01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:50,529
But I do know I've seen pictures of neighbors digging in

2036
01:40:50,529 --> 01:40:53,000
the mud together to take care of it.

2037
01:40:53,000 --> 01:40:56,430
What I don't understand is wanting to divide the plot

2038
01:40:56,430 --> 01:41:00,050
because essentially you would be buying a burden of just

2039
01:41:00,050 --> 01:41:02,000
the dam and a floodplain.

2040
01:41:02,000 --> 01:41:05,090
And what concerns me is, is there may be good intentions

2041
01:41:05,090 --> 01:41:07,859
there for now, but if anything were to happen to that owner

2042
01:41:07,859 --> 01:41:11,489
, who's to say that they wouldn't do something to control

2043
01:41:11,489 --> 01:41:15,000
the dam and with that dam they would destroy all of those

2044
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:16,000
animals and birds and everything else.

2045
01:41:16,000 --> 01:41:18,000
We protect.

2046
01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:21,159
It is a very rare treasure to live there and I plan on

2047
01:41:21,159 --> 01:41:23,000
finishing my life there.

2048
01:41:23,000 --> 01:41:26,430
My husband is a cancer survivor and we chose to live there

2049
01:41:26,430 --> 01:41:29,850
because of the peace and it would really break my heart to

2050
01:41:29,850 --> 01:41:33,000
see our wonderful neighborhood be destroyed.

2051
01:41:33,000 --> 01:41:35,000
Thank you.

2052
01:41:35,000 --> 01:41:38,000
Thank you.

2053
01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:41,149
I do have three cards that were submitted that did not wish

2054
01:41:41,149 --> 01:41:44,000
to speak and I'll read those into the record now.

2055
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:49,500
Mike Murray at 3211 Santa Monica Drive in Denton is

2056
01:41:49,500 --> 01:41:52,000
expresses his opposition.

2057
01:41:52,000 --> 01:41:58,729
Jan McClure at 3100 Carmel Street in Denton expresses her

2058
01:41:58,729 --> 01:42:00,000
opposition.

2059
01:42:00,000 --> 01:42:06,100
Arlie Holstrand at 3110 Carmel Street in Denton expresses

2060
01:42:06,100 --> 01:42:08,000
their opposition.

2061
01:42:08,000 --> 01:42:11,170
This is a public hearing. If anybody else would like to

2062
01:42:11,170 --> 01:42:14,000
speak on this item, please come forward now.

2063
01:42:14,000 --> 01:42:16,960
I'm sorry, sir. You've already you've already spoken for

2064
01:42:16,960 --> 01:42:18,000
your four minutes.

2065
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:23,000
So if anybody else would like to speak on this issue.

2066
01:42:23,000 --> 01:42:33,390
Seeing nobody else I will close the public hearing and open

2067
01:42:33,390 --> 01:42:37,000
this for discussion.

2068
01:42:37,000 --> 01:42:39,000
Commissioner Beck. Thank you, Vice Chair.

2069
01:42:39,000 --> 01:42:45,130
I guess we need clarification here as a commission as

2070
01:42:45,130 --> 01:42:51,000
really what to do here is a simple up or down vote.

2071
01:42:51,000 --> 01:42:54,689
Are we still just looking at voting on whether to allow the

2072
01:42:54,689 --> 01:42:59,390
property to divide or we're looking at other legal

2073
01:42:59,390 --> 01:43:02,000
consequences that will affect this?

2074
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:04,000
So help us here as far as the vote goes.

2075
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:06,000
What exactly are we?

2076
01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:09,000
Let me let our legal counsel advise us.

2077
01:43:09,000 --> 01:43:11,000
Thank you, Chair.

2078
01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:14,340
You're solely looking at whether or not it should be subd

2079
01:43:14,340 --> 01:43:18,000
ivided, replatted based on our technical requirements.

2080
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:21,869
We don't really have the discretion to bring into whether

2081
01:43:21,869 --> 01:43:26,199
or not there is some sort of civil dispute between adjacent

2082
01:43:26,199 --> 01:43:28,000
property owners.

2083
01:43:28,000 --> 01:43:32,399
So the only thing that we're looking at is whether or not

2084
01:43:32,399 --> 01:43:35,000
he can make it a lot of record.

2085
01:43:35,000 --> 01:43:36,000
We're not looking at the sale.

2086
01:43:36,000 --> 01:43:38,000
We're not looking at anything else.

2087
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:40,000
Just whether or not he can make that a lot of record.

2088
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:43,560
Which if it's met all the technical requirements, which the

2089
01:43:43,560 --> 01:43:47,699
staff says that it has, then there's not much discretion to

2090
01:43:47,699 --> 01:43:49,000
be had in that.

2091
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:52,000
So can we move to either approve or deny?

2092
01:43:52,000 --> 01:43:54,000
You either approve or deny.

2093
01:43:54,000 --> 01:43:55,000
Okay.

2094
01:43:55,000 --> 01:43:58,229
Unlike the objections in say a rezoning case, there's

2095
01:43:58,229 --> 01:44:01,890
nothing that triggers any kind of supermajority requirement

2096
01:44:01,890 --> 01:44:05,000
or anything as far as objections are concerned.

2097
01:44:05,000 --> 01:44:07,000
Okay. Great. Thank you.

2098
01:44:07,000 --> 01:44:09,000
Commissioner Ellis.

2099
01:44:09,000 --> 01:44:11,000
Thank you, Vice Chair.

2100
01:44:11,000 --> 01:44:14,000
I guess my question may be staff legal.

2101
01:44:14,000 --> 01:44:15,000
Okay.

2102
01:44:15,000 --> 01:44:18,000
So a replant and a subdivide is one in the same?

2103
01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:19,000
Correct.

2104
01:44:19,000 --> 01:44:20,000
Okay.

2105
01:44:20,000 --> 01:44:22,000
In this case.

2106
01:44:22,000 --> 01:44:23,000
Sorry?

2107
01:44:23,000 --> 01:44:24,000
In this case, yes.

2108
01:44:24,000 --> 01:44:27,420
And with staff looking at this, deed restrictions are not

2109
01:44:27,420 --> 01:44:30,000
considered when this is being looked at.

2110
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:36,000
So any plat can be replatted?

2111
01:44:36,000 --> 01:44:39,520
So long as it meets the technical requirements of the city,

2112
01:44:39,520 --> 01:44:40,000
yes.

2113
01:44:40,000 --> 01:44:43,000
Can you enlighten us on the technical requirements?

2114
01:44:43,000 --> 01:44:45,000
Sure.

2115
01:44:45,000 --> 01:44:47,000
Thank you, Chair.

2116
01:44:47,000 --> 01:44:49,979
The Denton Development Code has specific subdivision

2117
01:44:49,979 --> 01:44:51,000
requirements.

2118
01:44:51,000 --> 01:44:54,460
In this instance, because this is a replant of a resident

2119
01:44:54,460 --> 01:44:58,029
ially zoned property, that is why it is a public hearing in

2120
01:44:58,029 --> 01:44:59,000
this manner.

2121
01:44:59,000 --> 01:45:05,000
Notices are sent within 200 feet of the subject site.

2122
01:45:05,000 --> 01:45:07,960
And it gives an opportunity for the community within that

2123
01:45:07,960 --> 01:45:11,000
subdivision to come forward and voice their opinion.

2124
01:45:11,000 --> 01:45:13,590
As it relates to the technical requirements, the elements

2125
01:45:13,590 --> 01:45:16,350
that are looked at are the zoning district criteria, the

2126
01:45:16,350 --> 01:45:18,000
minimum lot size,

2127
01:45:18,000 --> 01:45:21,119
which is primary in a residential subdivision, the

2128
01:45:21,119 --> 01:45:23,579
engineering department, because they're just making sure

2129
01:45:23,579 --> 01:45:26,649
that the necessary or pertinent easements are reflected on

2130
01:45:26,649 --> 01:45:27,000
the site,

2131
01:45:27,000 --> 01:45:30,289
which, as you can see on this lot too, if I'm not mistaken,

2132
01:45:30,289 --> 01:45:33,000
is the lot that's being questioned right now.

2133
01:45:33,000 --> 01:45:35,890
And again, those technical requirements, there is no

2134
01:45:35,890 --> 01:45:38,000
development occurring at this time.

2135
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:40,949
There's a large swath of drainage easement and floodplain

2136
01:45:40,949 --> 01:45:42,000
on the property.

2137
01:45:42,000 --> 01:45:44,779
They are not mitigating or compromising any elements

2138
01:45:44,779 --> 01:45:48,000
associated with the subdivision ordinance at this time.

2139
01:45:48,000 --> 01:45:51,439
The issue at hand, I think, before the Commission right now

2140
01:45:51,439 --> 01:45:54,289
is the concern associated with deed restrictions that the

2141
01:45:54,289 --> 01:45:57,079
surrounding property owners have mentioned, which we do not

2142
01:45:57,079 --> 01:45:58,000
enforce.

2143
01:45:58,000 --> 01:46:00,000
And of course, zoning remains the same.

2144
01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:02,000
Zoning remains the same.

2145
01:46:02,000 --> 01:46:05,310
The lot and the lot size as it relates to the zoning

2146
01:46:05,310 --> 01:46:09,229
requirements of that subdivision are intact in the sense

2147
01:46:09,229 --> 01:46:12,000
that they've not been compromised.

2148
01:46:12,000 --> 01:46:17,739
So the minimum lot requirements for lot one and two are

2149
01:46:17,739 --> 01:46:19,000
intact.

2150
01:46:19,000 --> 01:46:21,000
Commissioner Hutsmith.

2151
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:22,000
Thank you, Chair.

2152
01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:29,390
Menal, can you help me understand the environmentally

2153
01:46:29,390 --> 01:46:34,909
sensitive area? What protections does it have, changes to

2154
01:46:34,909 --> 01:46:39,560
that but for that one swath of land, changes to that if the

2155
01:46:39,560 --> 01:46:44,369
lot's separated, changes to that new lot, would that come

2156
01:46:44,369 --> 01:46:46,000
back before us?

2157
01:46:46,000 --> 01:46:50,000
Is that body of water protected?

2158
01:46:50,000 --> 01:46:53,000
Sure.

2159
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:56,899
Commissioner Hutsmith and Commission, one of the elements

2160
01:46:56,899 --> 01:46:59,439
that we would consider, that we would be required to

2161
01:46:59,439 --> 01:47:02,220
consider as it relates to development of that property in

2162
01:47:02,220 --> 01:47:05,289
the sense if it were to go vertical with a residential

2163
01:47:05,289 --> 01:47:09,689
structure, then if there is a environmentally sensitive

2164
01:47:09,689 --> 01:47:13,449
area on that subject site, our environmental team would

2165
01:47:13,449 --> 01:47:17,600
review and see what mitigation measures would have to be

2166
01:47:17,600 --> 01:47:19,000
put in place to protect and protect the property.

2167
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:22,000
And provide any necessary mitigation.

2168
01:47:22,000 --> 01:47:25,680
That is referred to as an alternative environmentally

2169
01:47:25,680 --> 01:47:27,000
sensitive area.

2170
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:29,069
In order to do that, you have to go through the public

2171
01:47:29,069 --> 01:47:30,000
hearing process.

2172
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:32,590
It is a dual public hearing process, which means that the

2173
01:47:32,590 --> 01:47:34,000
request would be notified.

2174
01:47:34,000 --> 01:47:37,119
It would come before the Planning and Zoning Commission and

2175
01:47:37,119 --> 01:47:39,000
then move on to the City Council.

2176
01:47:39,000 --> 01:47:42,539
The other element that needs to be considered is not just

2177
01:47:42,539 --> 01:47:46,199
the ESA or the ESA that we've referred to, but there is, if

2178
01:47:46,199 --> 01:47:50,000
I'm not mistaken, a floodway/flood zone on the property.

2179
01:47:50,000 --> 01:47:53,800
And any type, if there were development to occur, then

2180
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:58,060
mitigation measures as it relates to perhaps doing a letter

2181
01:47:58,060 --> 01:48:01,649
of map provision to adjust the limits or remit of or

2182
01:48:01,649 --> 01:48:04,000
boundary of that flood zone.

2183
01:48:04,000 --> 01:48:09,020
Again, that would warrant an engineering design to come

2184
01:48:09,020 --> 01:48:14,000
forward and be approved by the Engineering Department.

2185
01:48:14,000 --> 01:48:19,000
Thank you.

2186
01:48:19,000 --> 01:48:22,000
So I have a few questions.

2187
01:48:22,000 --> 01:48:27,500
Regarding the drainage easement being put in place by this

2188
01:48:27,500 --> 01:48:28,000
plat.

2189
01:48:28,000 --> 01:48:36,000
If we can get the drawing on the board.

2190
01:48:36,000 --> 01:48:42,439
So the plat indicates a large area that says of drainage

2191
01:48:42,439 --> 01:48:44,000
easement.

2192
01:48:44,000 --> 01:48:46,000
This is separate from the floodplain.

2193
01:48:46,000 --> 01:49:01,329
So if the floodplain were to shift, would this easement

2194
01:49:01,329 --> 01:49:06,000
stay in place?

2195
01:49:06,000 --> 01:49:17,220
That's correct. The easement would stay in place because it

2196
01:49:17,220 --> 01:49:17,500
is plotted in its place in order to amend the easement to

2197
01:49:17,500 --> 01:49:17,789
conform to the newly relocated floodplain for whatever

2198
01:49:17,789 --> 01:49:20,000
reason that it alters in the future.

2199
01:49:20,000 --> 01:49:23,939
They would have to replat the property to reflect the new

2200
01:49:23,939 --> 01:49:25,000
location.

2201
01:49:25,000 --> 01:49:34,220
And then there is also a 15 foot utility easement, is that

2202
01:49:34,220 --> 01:49:36,000
correct? A 20 foot utility easement as well?

2203
01:49:36,000 --> 01:49:39,359
Even if they got the utility lines moved, they would have

2204
01:49:39,359 --> 01:49:42,510
to come forward and have it replatted again in order to

2205
01:49:42,510 --> 01:49:44,000
remove the easements?

2206
01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:45,000
That's correct.

2207
01:49:45,000 --> 01:49:57,000
Okay. Thank you.

2208
01:49:57,000 --> 01:50:00,000
Commissioner Hutsmith.

2209
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:09,319
I'm inclined to, if it's an option, move that we push this

2210
01:50:09,319 --> 01:50:19,239
item back to give the neighborhood time to evaluate, talk,

2211
01:50:19,239 --> 01:50:23,000
before we have to insert ourselves.

2212
01:50:23,000 --> 01:50:30,439
I have a hard time making that decision. Again, we're short

2213
01:50:30,439 --> 01:50:31,000
a couple of members.

2214
01:50:31,000 --> 01:50:36,000
One, two.

2215
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:39,439
I think some things can be, if they are at impasse, then

2216
01:50:39,439 --> 01:50:40,000
sure.

2217
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:43,000
I'm happy to, not happy, but we'll have to break ties.

2218
01:50:43,000 --> 01:50:48,039
But I think, given an opportunity, hopefully some of these

2219
01:50:48,039 --> 01:50:51,800
issues may be able to be worked out and the deed

2220
01:50:51,800 --> 01:50:54,000
restriction is news to me.

2221
01:50:54,000 --> 01:50:58,319
And I don't want to make a decision that triggers civil

2222
01:50:58,319 --> 01:51:02,000
actions if they can be managed otherwise.

2223
01:51:02,000 --> 01:51:04,000
If they can't, they can't.

2224
01:51:04,000 --> 01:51:06,000
But that's my inclination.

2225
01:51:06,000 --> 01:51:09,279
I don't know where we fall or how that would look in

2226
01:51:09,279 --> 01:51:13,000
practice if I have to select a certain meeting date.

2227
01:51:13,000 --> 01:51:18,000
But I would like to give some time for, because the gross

2228
01:51:18,000 --> 01:51:23,000
majority of the people are against, and that weighs heavy.

2229
01:51:23,000 --> 01:51:26,989
And then, so you counterbalance that with, it's their

2230
01:51:26,989 --> 01:51:28,000
property.

2231
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:30,369
I mean, so how can you tell someone what to do with their

2232
01:51:30,369 --> 01:51:31,000
property?

2233
01:51:31,000 --> 01:51:36,329
So it's a very compelling argument, but I'd like to allow

2234
01:51:36,329 --> 01:51:41,439
them to have control of that conversation before we wrangle

2235
01:51:41,439 --> 01:51:44,000
that control away from them.

2236
01:51:44,000 --> 01:51:48,350
So I might ask the applicant to return to the microphone

2237
01:51:48,350 --> 01:51:50,000
just for a moment.

2238
01:51:50,000 --> 01:51:53,470
We're in a unique situation here because we only have four

2239
01:51:53,470 --> 01:51:57,850
commissioners tonight, and it requires four affirmative

2240
01:51:57,850 --> 01:52:00,000
votes for us to approve.

2241
01:52:00,000 --> 01:52:04,050
So if we had two more commissioners, there might be more

2242
01:52:04,050 --> 01:52:05,000
leeway.

2243
01:52:05,000 --> 01:52:08,279
And I wonder if two or four weeks might give you the

2244
01:52:08,279 --> 01:52:12,329
opportunity to speak with your neighbors about and resolve

2245
01:52:12,329 --> 01:52:14,000
some of these issues.

2246
01:52:14,000 --> 01:52:18,050
Okay, if I could ask you a question, regardless of which

2247
01:52:18,050 --> 01:52:20,000
way your vote would go tonight,

2248
01:52:20,000 --> 01:52:23,199
does this matter have to go up to the council for final

2249
01:52:23,199 --> 01:52:27,000
approval of any sort, or is this the last stop right here?

2250
01:52:27,000 --> 01:52:31,000
This is the last stop for Platts.

2251
01:52:31,000 --> 01:52:35,479
Okay, so you're saying it requires four votes, so all the

2252
01:52:35,479 --> 01:52:38,539
members present would have to vote affirmatively to approve

2253
01:52:38,539 --> 01:52:39,000
this.

2254
01:52:39,000 --> 01:52:44,640
And if you did not get off, I did not get off four votes,

2255
01:52:44,640 --> 01:52:49,000
then my application is killed, is denied?

2256
01:52:49,000 --> 01:52:55,899
Well, you could bring it back, but as of now it would be

2257
01:52:55,899 --> 01:52:57,000
gone. It would be denied.

2258
01:52:57,000 --> 01:53:02,000
I see. Well, we've been waiting a long time for this thing.

2259
01:53:02,000 --> 01:53:05,029
It's taken us over eight months, and my surveyor said it'd

2260
01:53:05,029 --> 01:53:06,000
be two months.

2261
01:53:06,000 --> 01:53:10,520
So I'm inclined to not do that, but I don't want to also

2262
01:53:10,520 --> 01:53:15,000
get in or out with all my neighbors unnecessarily.

2263
01:53:15,000 --> 01:53:20,810
If we can reschedule this in two weeks, I'd be willing to

2264
01:53:20,810 --> 01:53:22,000
do that.

2265
01:53:22,000 --> 01:53:25,439
But I also have to explain to these people that I do have

2266
01:53:25,439 --> 01:53:28,000
an agreement to sell this property.

2267
01:53:28,000 --> 01:53:31,869
So maybe that would involve him as well in our discussion,

2268
01:53:31,869 --> 01:53:42,000
so. But I don't mind pushing it off.

2269
01:53:42,000 --> 01:53:45,899
So I'm thinking it sounds like two weeks. Do we have room

2270
01:53:45,899 --> 01:53:48,000
on the calendar for two weeks?

2271
01:53:48,000 --> 01:53:51,149
Absolutely, we'd be able to. We would not have to re-notify

2272
01:53:51,149 --> 01:53:56,300
or re-notice this, and we would re-hear this on March the 8

2273
01:53:56,300 --> 01:53:57,000
th.

2274
01:53:57,000 --> 01:54:02,329
And hopefully that will give the applicants sufficient time

2275
01:54:02,329 --> 01:54:06,000
to communicate with the neighborhood.

2276
01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:07,000
Thank you very much.

2277
01:54:07,000 --> 01:54:10,430
I'm sorry, just so that we're clear on the record, you

2278
01:54:10,430 --> 01:54:14,000
consenting to such a postponement until March 8th.

2279
01:54:14,000 --> 01:54:16,000
I have my wife as well. Do you agree?

2280
01:54:16,000 --> 01:54:17,000
Yes, ma'am.

2281
01:54:17,000 --> 01:54:20,000
You're all right.

2282
01:54:20,000 --> 01:54:21,000
Yes, that's fine.

2283
01:54:21,000 --> 01:54:25,000
Okay. And Commissioner Hudspeth, are you making a motion?

2284
01:54:25,000 --> 01:54:27,000
Yes.

2285
01:54:27,000 --> 01:54:28,000
Go ahead.

2286
01:54:28,000 --> 01:54:35,539
So I move that we take agenda item A, FR16-0023, and postp

2287
01:54:35,539 --> 01:54:38,000
one it for two weeks.

2288
01:54:38,000 --> 01:54:41,000
And a date certain?

2289
01:54:41,000 --> 01:54:42,000
Yes, to a date certain.

2290
01:54:42,000 --> 01:54:43,000
Which weekend?

2291
01:54:43,000 --> 01:54:45,000
March 8th.

2292
01:54:45,000 --> 01:54:47,000
Yes.

2293
01:54:47,000 --> 01:54:52,000
We have a motion. Do we have a second? Commissioner Ellis?

2294
01:54:52,000 --> 01:54:55,000
Second.

2295
01:54:55,000 --> 01:54:59,760
So we have a motion and a second, and I would like to speak

2296
01:54:59,760 --> 01:55:02,000
on this piece briefly.

2297
01:55:02,000 --> 01:55:05,500
With PLATs, the Planning and Zoning Commission has very

2298
01:55:05,500 --> 01:55:07,000
limited authority.

2299
01:55:07,000 --> 01:55:10,020
We can only deny a PLAT if it violates some technical

2300
01:55:10,020 --> 01:55:15,750
requirement, which is things like width, lot width, square

2301
01:55:15,750 --> 01:55:17,000
footage.

2302
01:55:17,000 --> 01:55:20,000
There's several chapters that cover them.

2303
01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:23,859
But it tends to be very minute details, which our staff

2304
01:55:23,859 --> 01:55:27,000
does a very good job of identifying.

2305
01:55:27,000 --> 01:55:31,539
However, the complexity of this case and the concerns of

2306
01:55:31,539 --> 01:55:35,479
the neighborhood and the fact that we only have four

2307
01:55:35,479 --> 01:55:38,949
commissioners sitting up here tonight, I do feel justifies

2308
01:55:38,949 --> 01:55:41,000
this postponement.

2309
01:55:41,000 --> 01:55:45,239
That said, to the neighbors, you will either have to find a

2310
01:55:45,239 --> 01:55:49,420
technical reason why the commission could vote against it

2311
01:55:49,420 --> 01:55:51,000
if you want to stop it.

2312
01:55:51,000 --> 01:55:56,329
Or there's nothing we can do as far as covenants or deed

2313
01:55:56,329 --> 01:55:58,000
restrictions.

2314
01:55:58,000 --> 01:56:05,000
Those would require you to take action, not us.

2315
01:56:05,000 --> 01:56:08,000
Any further discussion?

2316
01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:32,000
Call for a vote on the board.

2317
01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:47,000
The motion to postpone two weeks carries 4-0.

2318
01:56:47,000 --> 01:56:57,220
And now we will move to our next agenda item, item 4B, and

2319
01:56:57,220 --> 01:57:08,000
Commissioner Strange, Chairperson Strange will return.

2320
01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:15,000
Thank you.

2321
01:57:15,000 --> 01:57:20,000
We'll give a few minutes to let the room clear before we

2322
01:57:20,000 --> 01:57:22,000
open our next item.

2323
01:57:45,000 --> 01:58:12,000
Thank you for your patience allowing the room to clear.

2324
01:58:12,000 --> 01:58:16,000
We'll continue on with our agenda.

2325
01:58:16,000 --> 01:58:18,000
We're moving to item B.

2326
01:58:18,000 --> 01:58:23,329
At this time, I'm going to open the public hearing for Z16-

2327
01:58:23,329 --> 01:58:28,000
0029 and I will call on Haley for presentation.

2328
01:58:28,000 --> 01:58:52,000
Good evening.

2329
01:58:52,000 --> 01:58:58,000
This is case Z16-29 for the CST corner store.

2330
01:58:58,000 --> 01:59:00,310
Given that we have quite a bit of audience, I'll run

2331
01:59:00,310 --> 01:59:03,010
through the presentation briefly again just so everyone's

2332
01:59:03,010 --> 01:59:04,000
on the same page.

2333
01:59:04,000 --> 01:59:07,149
So the request was to hold a public hearing and consider a

2334
01:59:07,149 --> 01:59:11,000
request by the property owners to rezone approximately .7

2335
01:59:11,000 --> 01:59:15,000
acres from a neighborhood residential 6 or NR6 district to

2336
01:59:15,000 --> 01:59:18,000
a community mixed use general district, the CMG district,

2337
01:59:18,000 --> 01:59:21,899
as well as to rezone approximately 3.6 acres from

2338
01:59:21,899 --> 01:59:26,000
neighborhood residential mixed use or NRMU to CMG.

2339
01:59:26,000 --> 01:59:29,279
This property is generally located at the northeast corner

2340
01:59:29,279 --> 01:59:31,000
of Country Club and Hobson.

2341
01:59:31,000 --> 01:59:36,000
It also has frontage on Fort Worth Drive.

2342
01:59:36,000 --> 01:59:41,000
And currently it is split between two parcels of land.

2343
01:59:41,000 --> 01:59:43,760
So just a general idea of what's in the area, there's some

2344
01:59:43,760 --> 01:59:46,479
multifamily as well as a gas station across Country Club

2345
01:59:46,479 --> 01:59:48,000
Road from the property.

2346
01:59:48,000 --> 01:59:51,180
There is a small office park and some single family homes

2347
01:59:51,180 --> 01:59:53,000
to the south across Hobson.

2348
01:59:53,000 --> 01:59:56,989
And then there's a mix of industrial and commercial uses

2349
01:59:56,989 --> 02:00:01,000
across Fort Worth Drive from the property as well.

2350
02:00:01,000 --> 02:00:04,840
So the current zoning, approximately .7 acres is currently

2351
02:00:04,840 --> 02:00:06,000
zoned NR6.

2352
02:00:06,000 --> 02:00:11,000
3.6 acres are currently zoned NRMU.

2353
02:00:11,000 --> 02:00:13,760
The future land use designation for this property is

2354
02:00:13,760 --> 02:00:17,439
community mixed use, which is a designation that promotes a

2355
02:00:17,439 --> 02:00:21,899
mix of uses, mostly commercial with a mix of supporting

2356
02:00:21,899 --> 02:00:25,000
residential and service uses.

2357
02:00:25,000 --> 02:00:27,369
So considerations that staff looked at for this, the CMG

2358
02:00:27,369 --> 02:00:30,329
district would be newly introduced to the area with this

2359
02:00:30,329 --> 02:00:31,000
request.

2360
02:00:31,000 --> 02:00:36,000
There currently isn't any other CMG adjoining the property.

2361
02:00:36,000 --> 02:00:39,609
We feel that CMG would, it allows a mixture of commercial

2362
02:00:39,609 --> 02:00:43,720
and institutional uses that would be appropriate, we felt,

2363
02:00:43,720 --> 02:00:47,000
at this prominent hard corner location.

2364
02:00:47,000 --> 02:00:50,840
And CMG also conforms to that future land use designation

2365
02:00:50,840 --> 02:00:53,000
of community mixed use.

2366
02:00:53,000 --> 02:00:57,520
This proposal would create a slightly isolated pocket of NR

2367
02:00:57,520 --> 02:01:00,000
MU as it's presented tonight.

2368
02:01:00,000 --> 02:01:02,960
So the southern parcel that is being handled here would

2369
02:01:02,960 --> 02:01:06,100
then have three zoning districts and that could create some

2370
02:01:06,100 --> 02:01:09,000
incohesive development on the property, we felt.

2371
02:01:09,000 --> 02:01:11,960
So that was the reason for our initial recommendation of

2372
02:01:11,960 --> 02:01:15,000
denial on this request, as was stated in your backup.

2373
02:01:15,000 --> 02:01:18,760
However, since this, we've communicated these concerns to

2374
02:01:18,760 --> 02:01:22,710
the applicants and they have since submitted an additional

2375
02:01:22,710 --> 02:01:25,640
application to rezone the portion outlined in yellow on the

2376
02:01:25,640 --> 02:01:26,000
map.

2377
02:01:26,000 --> 02:01:28,850
So the remainder of that NRMU parcel, they're also

2378
02:01:28,850 --> 02:01:31,000
proposing to rezone to CMG as well.

2379
02:01:31,000 --> 02:01:35,050
And that's a future case that will come before you all for

2380
02:01:35,050 --> 02:01:38,000
consideration in the next few weeks.

2381
02:01:38,000 --> 02:01:41,260
Just a comparison, CMG is very comparable to the existing

2382
02:01:41,260 --> 02:01:44,670
NRMU district that encompasses the majority of the property

2383
02:01:44,670 --> 02:01:45,000
.

2384
02:01:45,000 --> 02:01:48,800
Very comparable in terms of lot coverage, building height,

2385
02:01:48,800 --> 02:01:52,470
so the scale of development would be relatively consistent

2386
02:01:52,470 --> 02:01:56,000
between what's permitted now and what would be permitted

2387
02:01:56,000 --> 02:01:57,000
under CMG.

2388
02:01:57,000 --> 02:02:00,000
Notifications were sent on this matter.

2389
02:02:00,000 --> 02:02:02,840
We received two in favor and one in opposition that were

2390
02:02:02,840 --> 02:02:06,000
within a 200 foot radius of the subject property.

2391
02:02:06,000 --> 02:02:09,210
And given the new application that's been submitted that

2392
02:02:09,210 --> 02:02:12,539
would allow for more cohesive development of a larger chunk

2393
02:02:12,539 --> 02:02:15,000
of this property with the CMG designation,

2394
02:02:15,000 --> 02:02:17,590
as well as its consistency with the future land use

2395
02:02:17,590 --> 02:02:20,420
designation for this area, staff is now recommending

2396
02:02:20,420 --> 02:02:22,000
approval of this request.

2397
02:02:22,000 --> 02:02:27,000
And I can stand for any questions at this time.

2398
02:02:27,000 --> 02:02:34,000
Any questions for staff?

2399
02:02:34,000 --> 02:02:39,000
Commissioner Hussman.

2400
02:02:39,000 --> 02:02:48,479
Earl, can you come down and give us the preview of the text

2401
02:02:48,479 --> 02:02:57,170
dot roads just so those that are going to come speak can

2402
02:02:57,170 --> 02:03:02,000
have a frame of reference?

2403
02:03:02,000 --> 02:03:07,359
So text dot is currently working on widening Fort Worth

2404
02:03:07,359 --> 02:03:14,079
Drive and along with a portion of FM 1830 all the way to

2405
02:03:14,079 --> 02:03:16,000
the intersection with Hobson Road.

2406
02:03:16,000 --> 02:03:24,060
And so I've taken a couple of areas here for you to look at

2407
02:03:24,060 --> 02:03:25,000
here.

2408
02:03:25,000 --> 02:03:30,979
So this is the intersection 377 and FM 1830 and James

2409
02:03:30,979 --> 02:03:32,000
Street. So they're aligning this intersection up.

2410
02:03:32,000 --> 02:03:34,000
Currently, James Street does not line up with this

2411
02:03:34,000 --> 02:03:35,000
intersection at all.

2412
02:03:35,000 --> 02:03:38,000
And so this is going to be a signalized intersection.

2413
02:03:38,000 --> 02:03:43,329
They're going to construct two dedicated right turn lanes

2414
02:03:43,329 --> 02:03:47,000
from 1830 to northbound 377.

2415
02:03:47,000 --> 02:03:56,739
And they're going to and as you head south on FM 1830, they

2416
02:03:56,739 --> 02:04:03,279
're going to construct a dedicated left turn lane at the

2417
02:04:03,279 --> 02:04:05,000
intersection of Hobson in 1830,

2418
02:04:05,000 --> 02:04:10,000
dedicated right turn from 1830 to Hobson, one through lane.

2419
02:04:10,000 --> 02:04:12,000
Could you could you blow that up?

2420
02:04:12,000 --> 02:04:13,000
Sure.

2421
02:04:13,000 --> 02:04:20,000
Interpresentation mode.

2422
02:04:20,000 --> 02:04:21,000
Oh, I'm sorry.

2423
02:04:21,000 --> 02:04:30,000
Yeah, I forgot about that.

2424
02:04:30,000 --> 02:04:37,000
Hopefully that's better.

2425
02:04:37,000 --> 02:04:40,729
And they're also going to widen Hobson by creating a

2426
02:04:40,729 --> 02:04:43,000
dedicated right turn lane.

2427
02:04:43,000 --> 02:04:45,069
Right now, there's only one lane to take to exit Hobson

2428
02:04:45,069 --> 02:04:46,000
onto 1830.

2429
02:04:46,000 --> 02:04:50,439
So that'll I mean, all these turn lanes should alleviate

2430
02:04:50,439 --> 02:04:55,000
the congestion that's currently going on in this area.

2431
02:04:55,000 --> 02:05:01,000
Okay. Thank you.

2432
02:05:01,000 --> 02:05:02,000
Commissioner Taylor.

2433
02:05:02,000 --> 02:05:04,000
Thank you, Chair.

2434
02:05:04,000 --> 02:05:07,000
Let me get my questions back up.

2435
02:05:07,000 --> 02:05:11,159
So my questions were more pertaining to the zoning and the

2436
02:05:11,159 --> 02:05:14,000
size of the proposed zoning parcel.

2437
02:05:14,000 --> 02:05:18,350
Could you bring back up the future land use map or the

2438
02:05:18,350 --> 02:05:23,220
current or future zoning map either way, either one of

2439
02:05:23,220 --> 02:05:24,000
those.

2440
02:05:24,000 --> 02:05:29,329
So here we show a large area of community mixed use all

2441
02:05:29,329 --> 02:05:31,000
along the highway.

2442
02:05:31,000 --> 02:05:34,329
And community mixed use is often large shopping centers,

2443
02:05:34,329 --> 02:05:38,000
grocery stores with retail in front.

2444
02:05:38,000 --> 02:05:42,779
Probably typically 10 or 20 acres in size or sometimes

2445
02:05:42,779 --> 02:05:49,000
larger long strip centers, I believe is is I Kroger on

2446
02:05:49,000 --> 02:05:52,000
University Drive that entire strip center, I believe is CMG

2447
02:05:52,000 --> 02:05:53,000
.

2448
02:05:53,000 --> 02:05:58,470
So I look at this and is that that looks like about a 10

2449
02:05:58,470 --> 02:06:04,079
acre parcel and we're rezoning just like the end two acres

2450
02:06:04,079 --> 02:06:05,000
of it.

2451
02:06:05,000 --> 02:06:08,640
I believe total what they've proposed for now is a little

2452
02:06:08,640 --> 02:06:10,000
over four acres.

2453
02:06:10,000 --> 02:06:12,399
And then the additional request would be for approximately

2454
02:06:12,399 --> 02:06:13,000
two acres.

2455
02:06:13,000 --> 02:06:16,000
So total total is six.

2456
02:06:16,000 --> 02:06:26,000
So it's rare that I'm saying this is not enough commercial.

2457
02:06:26,000 --> 02:06:32,100
But I find myself kind of puzzling over such a small area

2458
02:06:32,100 --> 02:06:35,000
of community mixed use.

2459
02:06:35,000 --> 02:06:38,060
You know, I would expect you would have gas stations and

2460
02:06:38,060 --> 02:06:41,229
small retail on the front and then something some anchor in

2461
02:06:41,229 --> 02:06:42,000
the back.

2462
02:06:42,000 --> 02:06:47,020
And so I would expect this to go back, you know, another

2463
02:06:47,020 --> 02:06:52,390
several hundred feet and then up the highway quarter mile

2464
02:06:52,390 --> 02:06:55,000
or something like that.

2465
02:06:55,000 --> 02:06:58,640
Is it feasible to to zone just four acres, three or four

2466
02:06:58,640 --> 02:07:01,000
acres into community mixed use?

2467
02:07:01,000 --> 02:07:06,590
It seems like it doesn't really seem like it supports the

2468
02:07:06,590 --> 02:07:10,000
intent of the zoning district.

2469
02:07:10,000 --> 02:07:13,640
Commissioner Taylor, I understand where you're coming from

2470
02:07:13,640 --> 02:07:15,000
and it is right here.

2471
02:07:15,000 --> 02:07:18,579
You say that as it relates to the community mixed use

2472
02:07:18,579 --> 02:07:20,000
district itself,

2473
02:07:20,000 --> 02:07:24,050
it is typically found along major thoroughfares and

2474
02:07:24,050 --> 02:07:29,340
corridors to enable a mix or plethora of mixed uses where

2475
02:07:29,340 --> 02:07:31,000
you've got an anchor store, for example,

2476
02:07:31,000 --> 02:07:36,039
with then junior anchors and associated like uses as you as

2477
02:07:36,039 --> 02:07:38,000
you've indicated.

2478
02:07:38,000 --> 02:07:41,000
However, in this instance, is it enough?

2479
02:07:41,000 --> 02:07:43,000
Should it be more? Should it be longer? Should it be wider?

2480
02:07:43,000 --> 02:07:47,100
Again, a lot of the times when there is a zoning change

2481
02:07:47,100 --> 02:07:48,000
request,

2482
02:07:48,000 --> 02:07:51,199
it is from a specific applicant and is not a citywide

2483
02:07:51,199 --> 02:07:56,060
initiative that is taken to to create this or this vision

2484
02:07:56,060 --> 02:07:58,319
or realize the vision of the comprehensive plan, so to

2485
02:07:58,319 --> 02:07:59,000
speak.

2486
02:07:59,000 --> 02:08:01,590
Ideally, perhaps through court or visioning through a

2487
02:08:01,590 --> 02:08:03,000
philosophical discussion.

2488
02:08:03,000 --> 02:08:06,949
Now that could be achievable in the near future, but at

2489
02:08:06,949 --> 02:08:09,670
this time, this is the impetus that we're hoping that would

2490
02:08:09,670 --> 02:08:12,939
enable the creation of CMG districts in the future,

2491
02:08:12,939 --> 02:08:18,000
especially along the frontage of the right of way.

2492
02:08:18,000 --> 02:08:25,449
Another challenge in this because of the small size of this

2493
02:08:25,449 --> 02:08:33,079
CMG parcel is how much frontage is on Highway 377? Is it

2494
02:08:33,079 --> 02:08:34,000
maybe a couple hundred feet, 150 feet?

2495
02:08:34,000 --> 02:08:40,850
Let me see if I can answer that for you. I believe it is

2496
02:08:40,850 --> 02:08:44,000
several hundred feet.

2497
02:08:44,000 --> 02:08:46,829
I bring that up because it is very close to that

2498
02:08:46,829 --> 02:08:48,000
intersection.

2499
02:08:48,000 --> 02:08:55,359
If this went another 500 feet up 377, you could have safer

2500
02:08:55,359 --> 02:08:57,000
entrances and exits.

2501
02:08:57,000 --> 02:09:00,000
You could design a more cohesive commercial development,

2502
02:09:00,000 --> 02:09:06,220
but just having a driveway 100 feet from what's going to be

2503
02:09:06,220 --> 02:09:08,000
two six-lane roads,

2504
02:09:08,000 --> 02:09:12,539
that's going to be divided roads, so it'll be right in,

2505
02:09:12,539 --> 02:09:15,000
right out only on the highway.

2506
02:09:15,000 --> 02:09:22,250
And then a unique little entrance off of Country Club, and

2507
02:09:22,250 --> 02:09:26,000
all of those could be alleviated if this was larger.

2508
02:09:26,000 --> 02:09:28,000
Did you want the exact numbers for this parcel?

2509
02:09:28,000 --> 02:09:29,000
Sure, that'd be great. Thank you.

2510
02:09:29,000 --> 02:09:33,149
So their frontage is approximately 175 feet along Fort

2511
02:09:33,149 --> 02:09:37,640
Worth Drive. It's approximately 310 feet on Country Club

2512
02:09:37,640 --> 02:09:40,689
Road and then around 340 feet on Hobson for this current

2513
02:09:40,689 --> 02:09:41,000
parcel.

2514
02:09:41,000 --> 02:09:43,239
The portion on Hobson would be extended with that

2515
02:09:43,239 --> 02:09:44,000
additional.

2516
02:09:44,000 --> 02:09:46,989
Would you use your cursor to reflect that for the benefit

2517
02:09:46,989 --> 02:09:50,100
of the audience as well on those frontages, please, and

2518
02:09:50,100 --> 02:09:51,000
repeat them?

2519
02:09:51,000 --> 02:09:54,600
Yes, so 175 feet here along Fort Worth Drive. Actually, I

2520
02:09:54,600 --> 02:09:57,000
think Ariel would serve that a little bit better.

2521
02:09:57,000 --> 02:10:01,630
So here along Fort Worth Drive, 175 feet roughly, and then

2522
02:10:01,630 --> 02:10:07,000
it's about 340 feet or 310 feet here on Country Club Road

2523
02:10:07,000 --> 02:10:11,000
and then 340 feet in width here on Hobson.

2524
02:10:11,000 --> 02:10:16,000
Thank you. Commissioner Ellis.

2525
02:10:16,000 --> 02:10:17,000
Thank you, Chair.

2526
02:10:17,000 --> 02:10:21,149
Okay, so as I understand this, leading to Commissioner

2527
02:10:21,149 --> 02:10:25,350
Taylor's point about this being so small, staff had that

2528
02:10:25,350 --> 02:10:29,270
same issue of it being so small in creating this little

2529
02:10:29,270 --> 02:10:31,000
mini CMG district.

2530
02:10:31,000 --> 02:10:32,000
Yes.

2531
02:10:32,000 --> 02:10:37,329
But now that the applicant, which is the same landowner to

2532
02:10:37,329 --> 02:10:40,000
the property southwest of it.

2533
02:10:40,000 --> 02:10:42,000
Yes, it is all.

2534
02:10:42,000 --> 02:10:43,000
Right? The enter.

2535
02:10:43,000 --> 02:10:44,000
Yeah.

2536
02:10:44,000 --> 02:10:48,350
So they've put a request now to make that larger and make

2537
02:10:48,350 --> 02:10:53,220
that whole district their CMG, which now allows you to want

2538
02:10:53,220 --> 02:10:56,000
to say yes to this small parcel.

2539
02:10:56,000 --> 02:10:58,000
Am I interpreting that correctly?

2540
02:10:58,000 --> 02:11:03,000
Yes, our thinking is that with this entire, what it would

2541
02:11:03,000 --> 02:11:07,039
eliminate this isolated zoning district of NRMU by rezoning

2542
02:11:07,039 --> 02:11:11,000
the entire portion that was originally in red here.

2543
02:11:11,000 --> 02:11:14,270
The second thought was with three zoning patterns on it, I

2544
02:11:14,270 --> 02:11:17,869
believe this is, I can't remember, it's approximately 13

2545
02:11:17,869 --> 02:11:20,000
acres total, this parcel here.

2546
02:11:20,000 --> 02:11:25,000
It would be in cohesive development standards potentially

2547
02:11:25,000 --> 02:11:30,000
with three zoning districts by at least encompassing all of

2548
02:11:30,000 --> 02:11:33,000
the area that was formerly NRMU.

2549
02:11:33,000 --> 02:11:36,539
It would allow more cohesive development because that

2550
02:11:36,539 --> 02:11:40,369
larger, approximately six acres then would share the same

2551
02:11:40,369 --> 02:11:42,000
zoning designation.

2552
02:11:42,000 --> 02:11:46,350
So my concerns are I don't even know if CMG is appropriate

2553
02:11:46,350 --> 02:11:50,619
for this particular piece of land or several parcels of

2554
02:11:50,619 --> 02:11:54,699
land in this particular intersection, which is currently a

2555
02:11:54,699 --> 02:11:58,000
nightmare and is going to be for quite some time.

2556
02:11:58,000 --> 02:12:00,960
Because we don't exactly know when tech stuff is going to

2557
02:12:00,960 --> 02:12:02,000
be their thing.

2558
02:12:02,000 --> 02:12:05,520
The other thing I'm having a hard time with is if we vote

2559
02:12:05,520 --> 02:12:09,649
on this today, this small parcel, it kind of forces us to

2560
02:12:09,649 --> 02:12:14,079
vote yes in two weeks or whenever we see this other parcel

2561
02:12:14,079 --> 02:12:17,000
of land come before us for a rezone.

2562
02:12:17,000 --> 02:12:20,840
Which I'm uncomfortable with that whole thing, the way that

2563
02:12:20,840 --> 02:12:23,000
whole thing is playing out.

2564
02:12:23,000 --> 02:12:29,000
I'm very uncomfortable with that.

2565
02:12:29,000 --> 02:12:32,000
>> Yeah, questions for staff.

2566
02:12:32,000 --> 02:12:33,000
I'll ask one.

2567
02:12:33,000 --> 02:12:37,369
Would you put the future zoning district back up as far as

2568
02:12:37,369 --> 02:12:41,000
what is supposed to be community mixed use?

2569
02:12:41,000 --> 02:12:43,369
What they're asking for CMG is compatible with that,

2570
02:12:43,369 --> 02:12:44,000
correct?

2571
02:12:44,000 --> 02:12:45,000
>> Yes.

2572
02:12:45,000 --> 02:12:48,510
>> That's exactly what we have it planned for on our 2030

2573
02:12:48,510 --> 02:12:49,000
plan.

2574
02:12:49,000 --> 02:12:52,510
So they're not asking for anything above and beyond what we

2575
02:12:52,510 --> 02:12:56,000
have already as a city designated that area to become.

2576
02:12:56,000 --> 02:12:57,000
>> That's correct.

2577
02:12:57,000 --> 02:13:01,630
>> And it's a matter of really, I guess in my opinion, is

2578
02:13:01,630 --> 02:13:03,000
who's first.

2579
02:13:03,000 --> 02:13:08,329
Versus a lot of times there's already zonings in place and

2580
02:13:08,329 --> 02:13:12,000
now we're conforming to other zonings.

2581
02:13:12,000 --> 02:13:18,000
This is essentially first piece of this particular part.

2582
02:13:18,000 --> 02:13:23,239
There's CMG I think farther to the north, closer to 35, but

2583
02:13:23,239 --> 02:13:27,430
all of this corridor is somewhat transitioning over the

2584
02:13:27,430 --> 02:13:31,060
years from what's been a residential area to number of

2585
02:13:31,060 --> 02:13:32,000
businesses being built there.

2586
02:13:32,000 --> 02:13:34,819
I think little guys has built a new building there in the

2587
02:13:34,819 --> 02:13:36,000
last couple years.

2588
02:13:36,000 --> 02:13:38,550
I know there's another building under construction I think

2589
02:13:38,550 --> 02:13:40,000
on the other side of 377.

2590
02:13:40,000 --> 02:13:43,210
So I think it's an area that's in transition in our city

2591
02:13:43,210 --> 02:13:46,720
and going to be transitioning from residential to more of a

2592
02:13:46,720 --> 02:13:48,000
commercial use.

2593
02:13:48,000 --> 02:13:50,760
And so when I look at this proposal, I understand

2594
02:13:50,760 --> 02:13:53,899
Commissioner Taylor's a lot of times based on some of the

2595
02:13:53,899 --> 02:13:57,020
other developments that have come before us with razor

2596
02:13:57,020 --> 02:13:59,000
ranch and the larger tracks.

2597
02:13:59,000 --> 02:14:03,500
This just may not be that large of a development, but

2598
02:14:03,500 --> 02:14:08,739
because it is so many parcels versus it is a 50-acre tract

2599
02:14:08,739 --> 02:14:14,529
or a 30-acre tract, it's residential areas that are going

2600
02:14:14,529 --> 02:14:18,890
to be put together to make larger tracks and going to be

2601
02:14:18,890 --> 02:14:21,000
transitioning to commercial.

2602
02:14:21,000 --> 02:14:29,039
With that said, I particularly don't have an issue with it.

2603
02:14:29,039 --> 02:14:30,970
I think since it conforms to our future zoning map, I have

2604
02:14:30,970 --> 02:14:32,000
a tendency to support it.

2605
02:14:32,000 --> 02:14:37,000
But I'm calling Commissioner Back as a comment as well.

2606
02:14:37,000 --> 02:14:38,000
Thank you, Chair.

2607
02:14:38,000 --> 02:14:44,100
Just to respond to Commissioner Ellis' concern about this

2608
02:14:44,100 --> 02:14:49,939
being a problem if the road work doesn't come into play in

2609
02:14:49,939 --> 02:14:52,000
a timely manner.

2610
02:14:52,000 --> 02:14:57,880
Correct me if I'm wrong, staff, on this, but I believe we

2611
02:14:57,880 --> 02:15:03,000
had a date certain of 2018.

2612
02:15:03,000 --> 02:15:08,000
Is that correct? Earl, thank you.

2613
02:15:08,000 --> 02:15:12,859
Earl, didn't we, when this, the road construction, it's in

2614
02:15:12,859 --> 02:15:14,000
the works.

2615
02:15:14,000 --> 02:15:16,590
This thing is going to be ready about the same time that

2616
02:15:16,590 --> 02:15:19,369
this storefront wants to go up and everything. Is that

2617
02:15:19,369 --> 02:15:20,000
correct?

2618
02:15:20,000 --> 02:15:22,409
This area should be done within a 12-month period. They're

2619
02:15:22,409 --> 02:15:25,369
currently relocating the utilities outside the right-of-way

2620
02:15:25,369 --> 02:15:29,739
right now, and then the street work should begin sometime

2621
02:15:29,739 --> 02:15:31,000
this summer.

2622
02:15:31,000 --> 02:15:34,000
So it all should flow together pretty evenly.

2623
02:15:34,000 --> 02:15:36,960
With the timing of the zoning case and then the, I don't

2624
02:15:36,960 --> 02:15:40,319
know what other processes, the planning process, site plan

2625
02:15:40,319 --> 02:15:43,810
process with this project, it should probably follow about

2626
02:15:43,810 --> 02:15:45,000
the same time frame.

2627
02:15:45,000 --> 02:15:52,000
Okay, thanks, sir.

2628
02:15:52,000 --> 02:15:59,000
Any other questions for staff?

2629
02:15:59,000 --> 02:16:05,000
Any questions?

2630
02:16:05,000 --> 02:16:11,000
Again, this is a public hearing. I have two cards.

2631
02:16:11,000 --> 02:16:15,409
The first card I have requesting to speak is Jared Westmore

2632
02:16:15,409 --> 02:16:24,000
land, if you'd come forward at this time.

2633
02:16:24,000 --> 02:16:29,479
Hi, good evening all. I'm Jared Westmoreland. I represent C

2634
02:16:29,479 --> 02:16:31,439
ST Brands, which is a spinoff from Corporate Valero down in

2635
02:16:31,439 --> 02:16:32,000
San Antonio.

2636
02:16:32,000 --> 02:16:37,000
My address is 1818 Summit Avenue, Dallas, Texas.

2637
02:16:37,000 --> 02:16:39,590
Here to really just address any additional questions you

2638
02:16:39,590 --> 02:16:43,879
have. One question that was raised, Mr. Taylor, that I did

2639
02:16:43,879 --> 02:16:46,000
want to address is that

2640
02:16:46,000 --> 02:16:49,440
in TexDOT, we have met with TexDOT and formally submitted

2641
02:16:49,440 --> 02:16:52,860
our curb cuts, and they have granted the approval of where

2642
02:16:52,860 --> 02:16:56,040
the placement of the curb cut will go based on the

2643
02:16:56,040 --> 02:16:58,000
schematic and our submittal of the site plan.

2644
02:16:58,000 --> 02:17:03,329
So that has been reviewed, fully approved by TexDOT and

2645
02:17:03,329 --> 02:17:07,000
conforms with their requirements.

2646
02:17:07,000 --> 02:17:10,899
Any other additional questions from the audience or staff

2647
02:17:10,899 --> 02:17:14,000
or the city? I'm certainly here to address those questions.

2648
02:17:14,000 --> 02:17:16,000
Okay, got a question. Commissioner Beck.

2649
02:17:16,000 --> 02:17:20,000
Just curious, how many pumps are there?

2650
02:17:20,000 --> 02:17:22,000
There will be seven fueling stations.

2651
02:17:22,000 --> 02:17:23,000
Okay, thanks.

2652
02:17:23,000 --> 02:17:27,329
Yes, sir. And I have elevations as well that I'd like to

2653
02:17:27,329 --> 02:17:30,000
pass around and just share with you.

2654
02:17:44,000 --> 02:17:57,360
We'll get some of these up on the overhead so everyone can

2655
02:17:57,360 --> 02:18:02,000
see what we have.

2656
02:18:14,000 --> 02:18:41,000
Okay.

2657
02:18:41,000 --> 02:18:47,000
Any other questions for the applicant?

2658
02:18:47,000 --> 02:18:51,000
Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.

2659
02:18:51,000 --> 02:18:53,000
We have one other card.

2660
02:18:53,000 --> 02:18:57,659
Dick Smith, he does not wish to speak, but he is in support

2661
02:18:57,659 --> 02:18:58,000
.

2662
02:18:58,000 --> 02:19:04,100
Do not have -- please, the card I had said do not speak,

2663
02:19:04,100 --> 02:19:06,000
you are more than welcome to speak.

2664
02:19:11,000 --> 02:19:13,790
Please state your name and address and we have four minutes

2665
02:19:13,790 --> 02:19:14,000
.

2666
02:19:14,000 --> 02:19:19,000
Dick Smith, 721 West Hobson, Denton.

2667
02:19:19,000 --> 02:19:23,590
I'm a partner in the ownership of this property, including

2668
02:19:23,590 --> 02:19:27,000
the 10 acres that you referred to adjacent to this piece.

2669
02:19:27,000 --> 02:19:31,000
I also live across the street from this property.

2670
02:19:31,000 --> 02:19:41,110
And my partner and I have been very restrictive. We've had

2671
02:19:41,110 --> 02:19:41,840
an opportunity to develop this property several times over

2672
02:19:41,840 --> 02:19:43,000
the last 10 years.

2673
02:19:43,000 --> 02:19:46,149
And because I live across the street from it, I'm very

2674
02:19:46,149 --> 02:19:49,000
interested in what is going to be built there.

2675
02:19:49,000 --> 02:19:54,000
And we've turned down quite a few projects.

2676
02:19:54,000 --> 02:20:01,350
Now, these -- the planned use for the far northwest corner

2677
02:20:01,350 --> 02:20:05,000
of what is in question here,

2678
02:20:05,000 --> 02:20:09,780
we were agreeable to selling one acre and they were buying

2679
02:20:09,780 --> 02:20:14,629
another acre just north of it to accommodate what they need

2680
02:20:14,629 --> 02:20:15,000
.

2681
02:20:15,000 --> 02:20:18,780
We had the request over the last week to include the

2682
02:20:18,780 --> 02:20:22,000
balance of that four acres, give or take,

2683
02:20:22,000 --> 02:20:25,000
and include it in the CMG zoning.

2684
02:20:25,000 --> 02:20:29,000
We had no -- we were ambivalent on that.

2685
02:20:29,000 --> 02:20:32,000
And the city has asked us to do that.

2686
02:20:32,000 --> 02:20:35,000
So we have agreed to include it in there.

2687
02:20:35,000 --> 02:20:39,000
That's how that happened.

2688
02:20:39,000 --> 02:20:42,870
There's a lot of uses for it other than a large -- I mean,

2689
02:20:42,870 --> 02:20:46,000
for CMG zoning other than a large Kroger store.

2690
02:20:46,000 --> 02:20:49,000
So I think we're in favor of this.

2691
02:20:49,000 --> 02:20:50,000
I'll be living across the street from it.

2692
02:20:50,000 --> 02:20:55,000
They've been very receptive to landscape zoning around --

2693
02:20:55,000 --> 02:20:58,000
or landscape screening around the store,

2694
02:20:58,000 --> 02:21:03,489
as well as lighting restrictions that we have requested to

2695
02:21:03,489 --> 02:21:06,000
keeping down lighting.

2696
02:21:06,000 --> 02:21:10,000
We just have no issues with how this thing has come down.

2697
02:21:10,000 --> 02:21:13,260
So I just wanted to let you know I'm living across the

2698
02:21:13,260 --> 02:21:14,000
street.

2699
02:21:14,000 --> 02:21:18,000
I'm in favor of it.

2700
02:21:18,000 --> 02:21:21,000
Any questions?

2701
02:21:21,000 --> 02:21:23,000
Thank you.

2702
02:21:23,000 --> 02:21:25,000
Again, this is a public hearing.

2703
02:21:25,000 --> 02:21:30,520
Anyone who would like to speak on this item, please come

2704
02:21:30,520 --> 02:21:33,000
forward at this time.

2705
02:21:33,000 --> 02:21:38,000
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing.

2706
02:21:38,000 --> 02:21:43,000
Open the floor for -- Commissioner Hudsbeth.

2707
02:21:43,000 --> 02:21:45,590
I don't know if it's right to start the discussion with a

2708
02:21:45,590 --> 02:21:47,000
motion, but --

2709
02:21:47,000 --> 02:21:49,000
You have the floor.

2710
02:21:49,000 --> 02:21:56,000
I'm going to move approval of agenda item Z160029.

2711
02:21:56,000 --> 02:21:57,000
Commissioner Back.

2712
02:21:57,000 --> 02:21:59,000
Second.

2713
02:21:59,000 --> 02:22:03,000
We have a first and a second for approval.

2714
02:22:03,000 --> 02:22:06,000
Discussion.

2715
02:22:06,000 --> 02:22:08,000
Commissioner Elvis.

2716
02:22:08,000 --> 02:22:10,000
I'll just restate.

2717
02:22:10,000 --> 02:22:13,000
I'm going to go ahead and vote no on this.

2718
02:22:13,000 --> 02:22:16,649
I'm just not comfortable, again, with the way it all kind

2719
02:22:16,649 --> 02:22:18,000
of came together.

2720
02:22:18,000 --> 02:22:22,989
I'm not sure, like I said, I'm comfortable with CMG being

2721
02:22:22,989 --> 02:22:26,000
where we're going to put it next to NR2.

2722
02:22:26,000 --> 02:22:28,559
I'd be more comfortable if we were going the other

2723
02:22:28,559 --> 02:22:30,000
direction up Fort Worth Drive,

2724
02:22:30,000 --> 02:22:36,000
which seems more likely with this zoning, in my opinion.

2725
02:22:36,000 --> 02:22:38,000
So I just can't support it.

2726
02:22:38,000 --> 02:22:42,000
Sure.

2727
02:22:42,000 --> 02:22:44,000
Commissioner Tyler.

2728
02:22:44,000 --> 02:22:45,000
Thank you, Chair.

2729
02:22:45,000 --> 02:22:52,040
As I've voiced several concerns about the overall zoning

2730
02:22:52,040 --> 02:22:55,000
aspect or planning aspect of this,

2731
02:22:55,000 --> 02:22:58,819
where this does feel like it's too small of a parcel, and

2732
02:22:58,819 --> 02:23:03,000
the NRMU immediately to the east was concerning as well.

2733
02:23:03,000 --> 02:23:07,329
But I guess we'll expect to see that in four weeks or so,

2734
02:23:07,329 --> 02:23:09,000
four or six weeks.

2735
02:23:09,000 --> 02:23:13,219
And I'm really torn because I don't think -- I think this

2736
02:23:13,219 --> 02:23:16,000
would be appropriate development,

2737
02:23:16,000 --> 02:23:20,540
and I think the zoning category will be appropriate as the

2738
02:23:20,540 --> 02:23:23,000
rest of 377 rezones.

2739
02:23:23,000 --> 02:23:27,000
I guess I'd say this is an imperfect start.

2740
02:23:27,000 --> 02:23:29,590
I wish we could have had a better start, but I guess I will

2741
02:23:29,590 --> 02:23:32,780
support it because it is the correct direction to move

2742
02:23:32,780 --> 02:23:35,000
along 377.

2743
02:23:35,000 --> 02:23:38,000
Okay.

2744
02:23:38,000 --> 02:23:42,000
Any other discussion?

2745
02:23:42,000 --> 02:23:44,000
Okay.

2746
02:23:44,000 --> 02:23:54,000
Seeing none, I will call for a vote on the board.

2747
02:23:54,000 --> 02:24:22,000
Motion carries to approve 4-1.

2748
02:24:22,000 --> 02:24:24,000
Can I make the motion?

2749
02:24:24,000 --> 02:24:28,000
Do I have a conflict?

2750
02:24:28,000 --> 02:24:34,000
Okay.

2751
02:24:34,000 --> 02:24:38,329
We have a housekeeping item, and we're going to be going

2752
02:24:38,329 --> 02:24:40,000
back to item 4-A,

2753
02:24:40,000 --> 02:24:43,760
and as such I'm going to step out with my same conflict and

2754
02:24:43,760 --> 02:24:47,000
I'm going to let housekeeping get cleaned up.

2755
02:24:47,000 --> 02:24:52,000
It's a motion to reopen.

2756
02:24:52,000 --> 02:24:55,059
So I was just notified that we actually closed the public

2757
02:24:55,059 --> 02:25:00,000
hearing on 4-A before taking the motion to postpone,

2758
02:25:00,000 --> 02:25:03,790
and so we want to go ahead and seek a motion to reopen that

2759
02:25:03,790 --> 02:25:10,770
public hearing so that it does not have to be re-noticed at

2760
02:25:10,770 --> 02:25:13,000
a later time.

2761
02:25:13,000 --> 02:25:18,040
So I apologize for my administrative faux pas, and I will

2762
02:25:18,040 --> 02:25:23,000
consider -- Commissioner Hudspeth?

2763
02:25:23,000 --> 02:25:36,000
I move we reopen agenda item FR --

2764
02:25:36,000 --> 02:25:44,000
FR160023, reopen that public --

2765
02:25:44,000 --> 02:25:46,000
And Commissioner Beck?

2766
02:25:46,000 --> 02:25:48,000
Second.

2767
02:25:48,000 --> 02:25:50,920
Just as a point of order, you want to reopen it and postp

2768
02:25:50,920 --> 02:25:53,000
one it to the March 8th deadline?

2769
02:25:53,000 --> 02:25:54,000
That's correct.

2770
02:25:54,000 --> 02:25:55,000
Okay.

2771
02:25:55,000 --> 02:25:57,000
And you're okay with that, Friendly?

2772
02:25:57,000 --> 02:26:00,860
So we have a motion to reopen public hearing agenda item 4-

2773
02:26:00,860 --> 02:26:04,000
A and postpone to a date certain of March 8th.

2774
02:26:04,000 --> 02:26:06,000
We have a motion and a second.

2775
02:26:06,000 --> 02:26:09,000
Any further discussion?

2776
02:26:09,000 --> 02:26:26,000
Call for a vote on the board.

2777
02:26:26,000 --> 02:26:27,000
Motion carries.

2778
02:26:27,000 --> 02:26:29,000
4-0.

2779
02:26:29,000 --> 02:26:44,000
Thank you.

2780
02:26:44,000 --> 02:26:45,000
Thank you.

2781
02:26:45,000 --> 02:26:47,629
It is 8.05, and I think we have a long item that we're

2782
02:26:47,629 --> 02:26:49,000
getting ready to start on.

2783
02:26:49,000 --> 02:26:52,870
I think it would be appropriate for us to take a five to 10

2784
02:26:52,870 --> 02:26:54,000
-minute break,

2785
02:26:54,000 --> 02:26:57,940
and let's try to get back as quick as we can and get

2786
02:26:57,940 --> 02:26:59,000
started.

2787
02:26:59,000 --> 02:27:15,000
So I'm going to call a recess at 8.05.

2788
02:27:15,000 --> 02:27:17,000
Good evening and welcome back.

2789
02:27:17,000 --> 02:27:22,000
I will call us back in session at 8.19.

2790
02:27:22,000 --> 02:27:27,000
We are going to now open the public hearing for item C.

2791
02:27:27,000 --> 02:27:34,809
It will be Z16-0023, and I will call on Julie Wyatt for

2792
02:27:34,809 --> 02:27:37,000
presentation.

2793
02:27:37,000 --> 02:27:38,000
Good evening.

2794
02:27:38,000 --> 02:27:42,000
I'm Julie Wyatt, Senior Planner with the City of Denton.

2795
02:27:42,000 --> 02:27:44,360
The request before you or the location of the request

2796
02:27:44,360 --> 02:27:46,000
before you is south of Scripture.

2797
02:27:46,000 --> 02:27:48,000
It's between Normal and Bryan Street.

2798
02:27:48,000 --> 02:27:52,000
It's north of the UNT campus.

2799
02:27:52,000 --> 02:27:56,270
The request from the applicant is to rezone approximately 1

2800
02:27:56,270 --> 02:28:01,000
.39 acres from DR2 to DCG district.

2801
02:28:01,000 --> 02:28:06,959
They've expressed their intent to do this is to consolidate

2802
02:28:06,959 --> 02:28:10,000
the zoning on the property.

2803
02:28:10,000 --> 02:28:13,000
This request is three parcels.

2804
02:28:13,000 --> 02:28:19,930
The largest of the three parcels actually has split zoning

2805
02:28:19,930 --> 02:28:21,000
on it.

2806
02:28:21,000 --> 02:28:25,000
It has a half DCG and half DR2.

2807
02:28:25,000 --> 02:28:30,000
So they're requesting to consolidate that zoning to the DCG

2808
02:28:30,000 --> 02:28:35,110
zoning district in order to develop the entire tract with a

2809
02:28:35,110 --> 02:28:37,000
multifamily use.

2810
02:28:37,000 --> 02:28:43,000
So I'm going to call on the applicant at this time.

2811
02:28:43,000 --> 02:28:44,000
Okay.

2812
02:28:44,000 --> 02:28:49,000
He's going to come up.

2813
02:28:49,000 --> 02:28:51,000
Good evening. My name is Lee Allison.

2814
02:28:51,000 --> 02:28:53,000
I'm with Allison Engineering Group.

2815
02:28:53,000 --> 02:28:55,000
We office here in Denton, Texas.

2816
02:28:55,000 --> 02:28:57,760
And this evening, because of some information that's come

2817
02:28:57,760 --> 02:29:00,329
up that may be confusing, we would like to ask for a

2818
02:29:00,329 --> 02:29:03,000
continuance until the next commission meeting.

2819
02:29:03,000 --> 02:29:09,000
I believe that would be March the 8th of 2017.

2820
02:29:09,000 --> 02:29:13,000
Okay.

2821
02:29:13,000 --> 02:29:16,149
I might call on legal for clarification of how we would

2822
02:29:16,149 --> 02:29:18,000
handle that appropriately.

2823
02:29:18,000 --> 02:29:22,000
We can make a motion, but you have the opportunity.

2824
02:29:22,000 --> 02:29:25,719
I know that you have plenty of people here that are wishing

2825
02:29:25,719 --> 02:29:27,000
maybe to speak.

2826
02:29:27,000 --> 02:29:31,049
If you want to hold your comments until any sort of postpon

2827
02:29:31,049 --> 02:29:35,059
ement, then you can do so so that the entire commission

2828
02:29:35,059 --> 02:29:37,270
would benefit from hearing them, or you can go ahead and

2829
02:29:37,270 --> 02:29:38,000
speak now.

2830
02:29:38,000 --> 02:29:41,209
And then we can do a subsequent motion after the public

2831
02:29:41,209 --> 02:29:42,000
hearing.

2832
02:29:42,000 --> 02:29:47,000
However, you want to handle that.

2833
02:29:47,000 --> 02:29:52,000
Commissioner Tyler.

2834
02:29:52,000 --> 02:29:53,000
Thank you.

2835
02:29:53,000 --> 02:29:54,000
Let me start over.

2836
02:29:54,000 --> 02:29:56,000
Thank you, Chair.

2837
02:29:56,000 --> 02:30:01,239
Can I ask what information came to light that now requires

2838
02:30:01,239 --> 02:30:03,000
a postponement?

2839
02:30:03,000 --> 02:30:06,680
There seems to be some confusion regarding building heights

2840
02:30:06,680 --> 02:30:10,709
and setbacks in residential areas, and we need some time to

2841
02:30:10,709 --> 02:30:15,000
clarify that and make sure we understand it exactly.

2842
02:30:15,000 --> 02:30:19,540
And we feel like that needs to be worked out before we have

2843
02:30:19,540 --> 02:30:23,000
a full presentation to the commission.

2844
02:30:23,000 --> 02:30:25,790
So do you feel that the -- so you have confusion about

2845
02:30:25,790 --> 02:30:28,780
building heights, or you feel like the commission has

2846
02:30:28,780 --> 02:30:31,000
confusion about building heights?

2847
02:30:31,000 --> 02:30:34,280
I think everybody's got confusion about the building height

2848
02:30:34,280 --> 02:30:36,870
right now, particularly with discussing it with staff later

2849
02:30:36,870 --> 02:30:40,030
, and that needs to maybe have some exhibits and examples to

2850
02:30:40,030 --> 02:30:41,000
clarify that.

2851
02:30:41,000 --> 02:30:44,000
Okay. Thank you.

2852
02:30:44,000 --> 02:30:47,000
Commissioner Hutchins.

2853
02:30:47,000 --> 02:30:50,530
Just my personal preference, I would like to hear from

2854
02:30:50,530 --> 02:30:54,260
those that are willing to speak just so that I can have an

2855
02:30:54,260 --> 02:30:59,079
understanding of the neighborhood and concerns, thoughts,

2856
02:30:59,079 --> 02:31:00,000
that type of thing.

2857
02:31:00,000 --> 02:31:03,870
And also I think it's good for the applicant to -- I know

2858
02:31:03,870 --> 02:31:08,379
you've had neighborhood meetings, but I think it would be

2859
02:31:08,379 --> 02:31:11,870
good to kind of fine tune those things, get another chance

2860
02:31:11,870 --> 02:31:13,000
to hear those things.

2861
02:31:13,000 --> 02:31:16,860
So me personally, I would like to hear those thoughts,

2862
02:31:16,860 --> 02:31:20,940
comments, so that I can better understand the issue from a

2863
02:31:20,940 --> 02:31:23,000
different perspective.

2864
02:31:23,000 --> 02:31:25,000
Okay.

2865
02:31:25,000 --> 02:31:26,000
Okay.

2866
02:31:26,000 --> 02:31:29,909
Just as a clarification, I think in the past when we've had

2867
02:31:29,909 --> 02:31:33,440
to do a continuance of public hearings and we've had a

2868
02:31:33,440 --> 02:31:36,969
large group come out, I want to give you the opportunity to

2869
02:31:36,969 --> 02:31:38,000
speak tonight.

2870
02:31:38,000 --> 02:31:41,159
And I think we have in the past, as this continues, to

2871
02:31:41,159 --> 02:31:44,520
suspend the rule that if you speak, you don't get to speak

2872
02:31:44,520 --> 02:31:46,000
at the next meeting.

2873
02:31:46,000 --> 02:31:49,629
And so in this instance, we are going to continue that,

2874
02:31:49,629 --> 02:31:52,000
that you can speak this evening.

2875
02:31:52,000 --> 02:31:55,440
And when this item comes back before us on March the 8th,

2876
02:31:55,440 --> 02:31:58,299
even if you have spoken tonight, you will have an

2877
02:31:58,299 --> 02:32:01,000
opportunity to speak again at that time.

2878
02:32:01,000 --> 02:32:04,000
So again, this is a public hearing.

2879
02:32:04,000 --> 02:32:06,659
So if we do have people that would like to go ahead and

2880
02:32:06,659 --> 02:32:10,000
speak tonight, we don't have all the commissioners here.

2881
02:32:10,000 --> 02:32:12,000
You can certainly speak to the ones that are here.

2882
02:32:12,000 --> 02:32:15,059
And then you can come back if you would like to on the 8th,

2883
02:32:15,059 --> 02:32:17,899
when hopefully we have a full commission and make your

2884
02:32:17,899 --> 02:32:19,000
points again.

2885
02:32:19,000 --> 02:32:24,719
So I'm going to -- I have a large stack of cards, a lot of

2886
02:32:24,719 --> 02:32:26,000
emails.

2887
02:32:26,000 --> 02:32:28,000
And so I do want to open this up.

2888
02:32:28,000 --> 02:32:29,000
It is a public hearing.

2889
02:32:29,000 --> 02:32:32,500
So if you would like to speak this evening, please come

2890
02:32:32,500 --> 02:32:34,000
forward and do that.

2891
02:32:34,000 --> 02:32:35,000
It's first come, first served.

2892
02:32:35,000 --> 02:32:38,200
So whoever would like to do that this evening, please come

2893
02:32:38,200 --> 02:32:39,000
to the mic.

2894
02:32:39,000 --> 02:32:41,000
And then -- okay.

2895
02:32:41,000 --> 02:32:44,540
>> If I could just -- if I could ask staff just briefly, we

2896
02:32:44,540 --> 02:32:48,329
would keep this public hearing open so that it wouldn't

2897
02:32:48,329 --> 02:32:51,000
have to be republished, correct?

2898
02:32:51,000 --> 02:32:52,000
>> That is correct.

2899
02:32:52,000 --> 02:32:53,000
>> Okay.

2900
02:32:53,000 --> 02:32:55,909
So then we should probably do the motion and then go ahead

2901
02:32:55,909 --> 02:32:58,000
and hear testimony from the public.

2902
02:32:58,000 --> 02:32:59,000
Okay.

2903
02:32:59,000 --> 02:33:01,000
So I think the motion would be better at this time.

2904
02:33:01,000 --> 02:33:05,000
>> Give us just a second to do things in appropriate steps.

2905
02:33:05,000 --> 02:33:07,000
Commissioner Hussman.

2906
02:33:07,000 --> 02:33:12,969
>> I move we postpone this agenda item Z160023 to a date

2907
02:33:12,969 --> 02:33:15,000
certain March 8.

2908
02:33:15,000 --> 02:33:16,000
>> Okay.

2909
02:33:16,000 --> 02:33:17,000
Continue.

2910
02:33:17,000 --> 02:33:24,000
>> And continue the open discussion.

2911
02:33:24,000 --> 02:33:25,000
I'm sure I'm dragging --

2912
02:33:25,000 --> 02:33:26,000
>> To the public hearing.

2913
02:33:26,000 --> 02:33:27,000
>> There you go.

2914
02:33:27,000 --> 02:33:29,000
>> I'm sure the public hearing to that point as well.

2915
02:33:29,000 --> 02:33:30,000
>> Okay.

2916
02:33:30,000 --> 02:33:35,000
So we're going to -- motion B to continue to March the 8th.

2917
02:33:35,000 --> 02:33:36,000
Commissioner Beck.

2918
02:33:36,000 --> 02:33:37,000
>> Second.

2919
02:33:37,000 --> 02:33:38,000
>> Okay.

2920
02:33:38,000 --> 02:33:39,000
We have a first and a second.

2921
02:33:39,000 --> 02:33:45,000
Any discussion?

2922
02:33:45,000 --> 02:33:48,030
Seeing none, we will call for a vote on the board to

2923
02:33:48,030 --> 02:33:50,000
continue to March the 8th.

2924
02:33:57,000 --> 02:34:07,000
Motion carries five to zero.

2925
02:34:07,000 --> 02:34:09,000
This is still a public hearing.

2926
02:34:09,000 --> 02:34:10,000
We are continued.

2927
02:34:10,000 --> 02:34:17,290
So anyone that would like to speak, please come forward at

2928
02:34:17,290 --> 02:34:19,000
this time.

2929
02:34:19,000 --> 02:34:20,000
>> Thank you.

2930
02:34:20,000 --> 02:34:21,000
My name is Paul Meltzer.

2931
02:34:21,000 --> 02:34:26,000
I live at 1914 West Oak Street.

2932
02:34:26,000 --> 02:34:29,000
I'm a public health officer.

2933
02:34:29,000 --> 02:34:33,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2934
02:34:33,000 --> 02:34:37,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2935
02:34:37,000 --> 02:34:41,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2936
02:34:41,000 --> 02:34:44,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2937
02:34:44,000 --> 02:34:48,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2938
02:34:48,000 --> 02:34:51,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2939
02:34:51,000 --> 02:34:54,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2940
02:34:54,000 --> 02:34:57,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2941
02:34:57,000 --> 02:35:00,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2942
02:35:00,000 --> 02:35:03,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2943
02:35:03,000 --> 02:35:06,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2944
02:35:06,000 --> 02:35:09,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2945
02:35:09,000 --> 02:35:12,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2946
02:35:12,000 --> 02:35:15,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2947
02:35:15,000 --> 02:35:18,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2948
02:35:18,000 --> 02:35:21,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2949
02:35:21,000 --> 02:35:24,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2950
02:35:24,000 --> 02:35:27,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2951
02:35:27,000 --> 02:35:30,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2952
02:35:30,000 --> 02:35:33,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2953
02:35:33,000 --> 02:35:36,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2954
02:35:36,000 --> 02:35:39,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2955
02:35:39,000 --> 02:35:42,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2956
02:35:42,000 --> 02:35:45,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2957
02:35:45,000 --> 02:35:48,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2958
02:35:48,000 --> 02:35:51,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2959
02:35:51,000 --> 02:35:54,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2960
02:35:54,000 --> 02:35:57,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2961
02:35:57,000 --> 02:36:00,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2962
02:36:00,000 --> 02:36:03,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2963
02:36:03,000 --> 02:36:06,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2964
02:36:06,000 --> 02:36:09,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2965
02:36:09,000 --> 02:36:12,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2966
02:36:12,000 --> 02:36:15,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2967
02:36:15,000 --> 02:36:18,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2968
02:36:18,000 --> 02:36:21,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2969
02:36:21,000 --> 02:36:24,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2970
02:36:24,000 --> 02:36:27,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2971
02:36:27,000 --> 02:36:30,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2972
02:36:30,000 --> 02:36:33,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2973
02:36:33,000 --> 02:36:36,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2974
02:36:36,000 --> 02:36:39,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2975
02:36:39,000 --> 02:36:42,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2976
02:36:42,000 --> 02:36:45,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2977
02:36:45,000 --> 02:36:48,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2978
02:36:48,000 --> 02:36:51,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2979
02:36:51,000 --> 02:36:54,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2980
02:36:54,000 --> 02:36:57,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2981
02:36:57,000 --> 02:37:00,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2982
02:37:00,000 --> 02:37:03,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2983
02:37:03,000 --> 02:37:06,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2984
02:37:06,000 --> 02:37:09,000
I work at the Department of Health and Human Services.

2985
02:37:09,000 --> 02:37:12,000
I spent the night with Simon, my seven-year-old son,

2986
02:37:12,000 --> 02:37:14,000
who has done a fantastic job,

2987
02:37:14,000 --> 02:37:17,000
because it's that important to me to spend his whole night

2988
02:37:17,000 --> 02:37:19,000
sitting here in council chambers,

2989
02:37:19,000 --> 02:37:21,000
because this neighborhood matters to me.

2990
02:37:21,000 --> 02:37:24,000
I want to first of all thank you all for what you do,

2991
02:37:24,000 --> 02:37:27,000
and I know that you read through lots of paperwork

2992
02:37:27,000 --> 02:37:29,000
and do lots of deep thinking,

2993
02:37:29,000 --> 02:37:32,000
and that you have a very deep knowledge of what goes on in

2994
02:37:32,000 --> 02:37:32,000
Denton

2995
02:37:32,000 --> 02:37:34,000
and what's permissible and what isn't.

2996
02:37:34,000 --> 02:37:38,000
And so I would remind you of the 2030 Comprehensive Plan

2997
02:37:38,000 --> 02:37:41,000
document for our city development.

2998
02:37:41,000 --> 02:37:43,000
I know some of the people who are in front of me now

2999
02:37:43,000 --> 02:37:46,000
have served on that committee.

3000
02:37:46,000 --> 02:37:49,000
I was on that committee, in fact, and I'm going to read to

3001
02:37:49,000 --> 02:37:49,000
you

3002
02:37:49,000 --> 02:37:51,000
what it says for Neighborhood University

3003
02:37:51,000 --> 02:37:54,000
Compatibility Area Development Criteria.

3004
02:37:54,000 --> 02:38:00,000
This is, by the way, Goal LU-6, Grow with Balance,

3005
02:38:00,000 --> 02:38:04,000
Establish Land Use Designation that Responds to the Growing

3006
02:38:04,000 --> 02:38:04,000
Needs

3007
02:38:04,000 --> 02:38:07,000
and Character Specifications of the Denton Community.

3008
02:38:07,000 --> 02:38:09,000
And the very first statement says,

3009
02:38:09,000 --> 02:38:11,000
"The Neighborhood University compatibility area

3010
02:38:11,000 --> 02:38:16,000
should provide a gradual transition in scale, use,

3011
02:38:16,000 --> 02:38:19,000
character, and intensity between the universities

3012
02:38:19,000 --> 02:38:21,000
and the surrounding neighborhoods."

3013
02:38:21,000 --> 02:38:25,000
So there will be other people who will speak eloquently,

3014
02:38:25,000 --> 02:38:28,000
more eloquently than I.

3015
02:38:28,000 --> 02:38:30,000
I wouldn't be here, though, and none of us would,

3016
02:38:30,000 --> 02:38:32,000
if the developers were willing to follow

3017
02:38:32,000 --> 02:38:33,000
what the existing zoning was.

3018
02:38:33,000 --> 02:38:35,000
Now, I don't personally agree with the existing zoning.

3019
02:38:35,000 --> 02:38:37,000
I think it's vestigial to what was there

3020
02:38:37,000 --> 02:38:39,000
when the Flow Hospital was there

3021
02:38:39,000 --> 02:38:41,000
and that the neighborhood character has changed.

3022
02:38:41,000 --> 02:38:45,000
But we have serious questions about parking,

3023
02:38:45,000 --> 02:38:48,000
which is already taxing our neighborhood greatly,

3024
02:38:48,000 --> 02:38:51,000
storm drainage, and what's to do with the water.

3025
02:38:51,000 --> 02:38:55,000
The people who live north of this development

3026
02:38:55,000 --> 02:38:58,000
already have serious storm drainage problems.

3027
02:38:58,000 --> 02:39:01,000
But most importantly, I'm concerned about maintaining

3028
02:39:01,000 --> 02:39:03,000
historic character in the infill.

3029
02:39:03,000 --> 02:39:06,000
Compatible with our existing neighborhoods,

3030
02:39:06,000 --> 02:39:09,000
and I'm asking you, when you come to your decision

3031
02:39:09,000 --> 02:39:11,000
to make sure that it is something that is careful,

3032
02:39:11,000 --> 02:39:15,000
conscientious redevelopment, in the neighborhood meetings,

3033
02:39:15,000 --> 02:39:17,000
nobody said, "No, let's leave this

3034
02:39:17,000 --> 02:39:20,000
as an abandoned mental hospital facility."

3035
02:39:20,000 --> 02:39:22,000
We want to see it redeveloped,

3036
02:39:22,000 --> 02:39:24,000
but we want to see it developed in a way

3037
02:39:24,000 --> 02:39:28,000
that is going to maintain our values as single homeowners,

3038
02:39:28,000 --> 02:39:30,000
as single-family homeowners.

3039
02:39:30,000 --> 02:39:32,000
We want to see it so that the retail that goes in

3040
02:39:32,000 --> 02:39:35,000
is useful to us in the neighborhood

3041
02:39:35,000 --> 02:39:37,000
and to the students who live there,

3042
02:39:37,000 --> 02:39:40,000
because we all choose to live in this neighborhood

3043
02:39:40,000 --> 02:39:43,000
because of the different varieties of things it provides.

3044
02:39:43,000 --> 02:39:45,000
My son can ride his bicycle

3045
02:39:45,000 --> 02:39:47,000
to the Howdy Doody to buy a candy bar.

3046
02:39:47,000 --> 02:39:49,000
He will never have to cross a busy street

3047
02:39:49,000 --> 02:39:52,000
to get to Denton High School or Calhoun Middle School.

3048
02:39:52,000 --> 02:39:55,000
And I love where I live, and I'm standing here tonight

3049
02:39:55,000 --> 02:39:57,000
to defend its historic character

3050
02:39:57,000 --> 02:40:01,000
and its ability to have a happy family life

3051
02:40:01,000 --> 02:40:05,000
that also works with students and small businesses.

3052
02:40:05,000 --> 02:40:06,000
Thank you.

3053
02:40:06,000 --> 02:40:08,000
-Okay, thank you. -Thank you.

3054
02:40:08,000 --> 02:40:10,000
Anyone?

3055
02:40:10,000 --> 02:40:12,000
-Thank you. -I'll be back.

3056
02:40:12,000 --> 02:40:14,000
[ Indistinct conversations ]

3057
02:40:14,000 --> 02:40:17,000
Hi. My name's Craig Clifton, and I wanted to thank you all.

3058
02:40:17,000 --> 02:40:19,000
It's very gracious to allow us to speak now

3059
02:40:19,000 --> 02:40:21,000
and then also in the future,

3060
02:40:21,000 --> 02:40:23,000
so I'll just bring up one point or two and keep it brief.

3061
02:40:23,000 --> 02:40:25,000
Can you give us your address, please?

3062
02:40:25,000 --> 02:40:27,000
-How about your partner? -Need your address, please.

3063
02:40:27,000 --> 02:40:32,000
We were moving 720 Hector,

3064
02:40:32,000 --> 02:40:34,000
but we were moving back over to Normal Street

3065
02:40:34,000 --> 02:40:36,000
where we've had property for 50 years.

3066
02:40:36,000 --> 02:40:38,000
-Thank you. -And that was 407 Normal,

3067
02:40:38,000 --> 02:40:40,000
and we found out about what they were building.

3068
02:40:40,000 --> 02:40:43,000
Now, for 50 years, we've had property there

3069
02:40:43,000 --> 02:40:45,000
and lived off there off and on.

3070
02:40:45,000 --> 02:40:48,000
And so we were there where this rezoning took place,

3071
02:40:48,000 --> 02:40:50,000
and it was explained to us --

3072
02:40:50,000 --> 02:40:55,000
this was for a medical building with Flow Hospital.

3073
02:40:55,000 --> 02:41:01,000
It was certainly not an SRO and not an apartment.

3074
02:41:01,000 --> 02:41:03,000
There wouldn't be any parking problems.

3075
02:41:03,000 --> 02:41:05,000
No one would be there after 5 o'clock,

3076
02:41:05,000 --> 02:41:07,000
and that's how it was presented to us.

3077
02:41:07,000 --> 02:41:10,000
So we think it's -- they found a loophole

3078
02:41:10,000 --> 02:41:14,000
in that when they presented that to us for the rezoning,

3079
02:41:14,000 --> 02:41:16,000
we were voting for that.

3080
02:41:16,000 --> 02:41:18,780
We weren't voting for this, and this certainly wouldn't be

3081
02:41:18,780 --> 02:41:19,000
okay.

3082
02:41:19,000 --> 02:41:23,329
It's not a like-kind development in our neighborhood, our

3083
02:41:23,329 --> 02:41:24,000
street,

3084
02:41:24,000 --> 02:41:26,000
which I'm sure you all have been down,

3085
02:41:26,000 --> 02:41:30,000
is one or two stories apartments or rent houses.

3086
02:41:30,000 --> 02:41:33,000
And when they build this four-to-five story,

3087
02:41:33,000 --> 02:41:36,350
they're going to more than triple the population of our

3088
02:41:36,350 --> 02:41:37,000
street.

3089
02:41:37,000 --> 02:41:40,000
And our street's just one block long,

3090
02:41:40,000 --> 02:41:43,760
and it's just a residential area street just like Bryan

3091
02:41:43,760 --> 02:41:45,000
Street.

3092
02:41:45,000 --> 02:41:47,760
The traffic and the parking for all their friends will be

3093
02:41:47,760 --> 02:41:49,000
coming by.

3094
02:41:49,000 --> 02:41:51,000
We can't withhold that,

3095
02:41:51,000 --> 02:41:56,329
and there isn't going to be any room on that street for

3096
02:41:56,329 --> 02:41:57,000
anything

3097
02:41:57,000 --> 02:41:59,000
once they build this.

3098
02:41:59,000 --> 02:42:02,000
It isn't congruent to the neighborhood.

3099
02:42:02,000 --> 02:42:04,590
Why they're allowing this to go into a residential

3100
02:42:04,590 --> 02:42:05,000
neighborhood

3101
02:42:05,000 --> 02:42:08,000
is because they found this zoning loophole.

3102
02:42:08,000 --> 02:42:11,000
So when he's talking about redoing the laws, specifically,

3103
02:42:11,000 --> 02:42:13,000
let's look at this one zoning.

3104
02:42:13,000 --> 02:42:15,760
When we allowed it to go through, we thought it was one

3105
02:42:15,760 --> 02:42:16,000
thing,

3106
02:42:16,000 --> 02:42:18,000
and now it's double-backed on us.

3107
02:42:18,000 --> 02:42:21,329
These things are fine where they're built out by the

3108
02:42:21,329 --> 02:42:22,000
highways,

3109
02:42:22,000 --> 02:42:24,000
where there's no problem with their friends coming by,

3110
02:42:24,000 --> 02:42:28,000
which would be literally, you know, let's say these kids

3111
02:42:28,000 --> 02:42:30,000
are the most studious kids in the world,

3112
02:42:30,000 --> 02:42:35,000
and they don't have one friend come by four days a week.

3113
02:42:35,000 --> 02:42:37,000
But on those three other days, they'll have friends come by

3114
02:42:37,000 --> 02:42:37,000
,

3115
02:42:37,000 --> 02:42:39,000
and let's say they're the most antisocial,

3116
02:42:39,000 --> 02:42:42,000
and they only have one friend come by those three days.

3117
02:42:42,000 --> 02:42:47,000
And they see their girlfriend one day a week, okay?

3118
02:42:47,000 --> 02:42:52,000
That's 2,500 people driving around these one-block streets

3119
02:42:52,000 --> 02:42:55,649
without parking, and we know it's going to be a lot more

3120
02:42:55,649 --> 02:42:56,000
people

3121
02:42:56,000 --> 02:42:58,000
than that coming to visit.

3122
02:42:58,000 --> 02:43:04,000
So this 150 feet, it's going to be blocks in every area

3123
02:43:04,000 --> 02:43:06,000
where all these people are going to be parking,

3124
02:43:06,000 --> 02:43:08,000
and day and night.

3125
02:43:08,000 --> 02:43:11,000
And right now we have people filling up our parking lots,

3126
02:43:11,000 --> 02:43:14,000
just go down to City Park.

3127
02:43:17,000 --> 02:43:18,000
This is unattainable.

3128
02:43:18,000 --> 02:43:21,000
I don't know how it's ever gotten this far

3129
02:43:21,000 --> 02:43:22,940
that they think they can build this in a residential

3130
02:43:22,940 --> 02:43:24,000
neighborhood.

3131
02:43:24,000 --> 02:43:26,000
I'm not against these being built

3132
02:43:26,000 --> 02:43:30,090
where they're not going to destroy everything on that city

3133
02:43:30,090 --> 02:43:31,000
block.

3134
02:43:31,000 --> 02:43:33,000
Thank you.

3135
02:43:35,000 --> 02:43:37,000
Commissioner Batt.

3136
02:43:37,000 --> 02:43:38,000
Thank you, Chair.

3137
02:43:38,000 --> 02:43:39,000
Thank you, Mr. Clifton.

3138
02:43:39,000 --> 02:43:41,000
I appreciate your presentation.

3139
02:43:41,000 --> 02:43:44,000
You said you were around, and I guess it was 2002

3140
02:43:44,000 --> 02:43:46,000
when they made the zoning change.

3141
02:43:46,000 --> 02:43:47,000
Right.

3142
02:43:47,000 --> 02:43:49,000
We were living once again over their own normal street.

3143
02:43:49,000 --> 02:43:53,270
Were you aware at that time that DCG allowed 100-foot tall

3144
02:43:53,270 --> 02:43:54,000
stories?

3145
02:43:54,000 --> 02:43:57,190
We were told when we asked about this, we called the city

3146
02:43:57,190 --> 02:43:58,000
council.

3147
02:43:58,000 --> 02:44:01,000
They said that they wanted to build a building

3148
02:44:01,000 --> 02:44:04,000
that would be congruent to, like, Flow Hospital,

3149
02:44:04,000 --> 02:44:06,000
three stories, something like that.

3150
02:44:06,000 --> 02:44:09,000
But they said that it wouldn't be a hospital.

3151
02:44:09,000 --> 02:44:11,000
It wouldn't be a day and night thing.

3152
02:44:11,000 --> 02:44:13,000
It would just be, like, for clinics,

3153
02:44:13,000 --> 02:44:16,000
it's next door there now where they used to do lab work,

3154
02:44:16,000 --> 02:44:20,000
and then offices, like doctor's offices and so forth,

3155
02:44:20,000 --> 02:44:23,000
that they didn't have room for over at the hospital.

3156
02:44:23,000 --> 02:44:26,000
So no one conveyed to you, as far as you can remember,

3157
02:44:26,000 --> 02:44:29,000
that other usages here could include?

3158
02:44:29,000 --> 02:44:30,000
No, not at all.

3159
02:44:30,000 --> 02:44:31,000
Okay.

3160
02:44:31,000 --> 02:44:33,000
That's why, you know, we were moving back over normal.

3161
02:44:33,000 --> 02:44:36,000
I mean, we want something done with that property.

3162
02:44:36,000 --> 02:44:39,870
And since 2000, all the apartments have been built there

3163
02:44:39,870 --> 02:44:41,000
are all two stories.

3164
02:44:41,000 --> 02:44:45,450
And at the most, population of extra 50 people on the

3165
02:44:45,450 --> 02:44:46,000
street,

3166
02:44:46,000 --> 02:44:50,000
maybe 75, something like that, in each of these apartments.

3167
02:44:50,000 --> 02:44:52,000
And, you know, we're all for that.

3168
02:44:52,000 --> 02:44:55,610
I mean, nobody wants that vacant rest home or whatever is

3169
02:44:55,610 --> 02:44:57,000
there, you know.

3170
02:44:57,000 --> 02:44:59,000
But it needs to be two stories.

3171
02:44:59,000 --> 02:45:02,500
It needs to be the same population as everyone else on the

3172
02:45:02,500 --> 02:45:03,000
street.

3173
02:45:03,000 --> 02:45:08,329
Because there's not going to be any businesses left on that

3174
02:45:08,329 --> 02:45:09,000
street.

3175
02:45:09,000 --> 02:45:11,000
Nobody's going to want to live there.

3176
02:45:11,000 --> 02:45:13,479
First off, when they built these other apartments here in

3177
02:45:13,479 --> 02:45:15,000
the 21st century,

3178
02:45:15,000 --> 02:45:17,239
we were there, one of them was right behind one of my

3179
02:45:17,239 --> 02:45:18,000
properties.

3180
02:45:18,000 --> 02:45:20,000
It took them two months to do.

3181
02:45:20,000 --> 02:45:23,500
This is going to take two years, two and a half years, they

3182
02:45:23,500 --> 02:45:25,000
first said.

3183
02:45:25,000 --> 02:45:27,409
And then once they came back with even more property

3184
02:45:27,409 --> 02:45:28,000
involved,

3185
02:45:28,000 --> 02:45:30,000
they realized, oh, well, that sounded bad.

3186
02:45:30,000 --> 02:45:33,000
It's only going to take a year and five months now.

3187
02:45:33,000 --> 02:45:35,250
But how real long it takes like that, nobody's going to

3188
02:45:35,250 --> 02:45:36,000
live on there.

3189
02:45:36,000 --> 02:45:38,000
And it's going to be -- the traffic now is pretty bad.

3190
02:45:38,000 --> 02:45:41,860
I'd like everybody to come over to that area, take a look

3191
02:45:41,860 --> 02:45:43,000
where this is going to be.

3192
02:45:43,000 --> 02:45:46,000
See, this is one of the oldest streets in Denton.

3193
02:45:46,000 --> 02:45:50,260
This is Normal Street when North Texas used to be Normal

3194
02:45:50,260 --> 02:45:52,000
Teachers College, okay.

3195
02:45:52,000 --> 02:45:55,000
And this is where all the teachers lived on this street.

3196
02:45:55,000 --> 02:45:58,149
And so this is one of the oldest, you know, apartment and

3197
02:45:58,149 --> 02:46:00,000
residential streets in Denton.

3198
02:46:00,000 --> 02:46:02,590
When he's talking about historical streets, this is that

3199
02:46:02,590 --> 02:46:03,000
area.

3200
02:46:03,000 --> 02:46:06,000
North Texas can build their own housing.

3201
02:46:06,000 --> 02:46:07,000
They don't pay any taxes.

3202
02:46:07,000 --> 02:46:09,000
They can afford it.

3203
02:46:09,000 --> 02:46:10,000
Why?

3204
02:46:10,000 --> 02:46:12,000
Why, we need to pick up that slack.

3205
02:46:12,000 --> 02:46:14,479
When we've been doing it all these years, when we've been

3206
02:46:14,479 --> 02:46:17,000
paying all these taxes to be protected

3207
02:46:17,000 --> 02:46:20,000
from people like this who just drop in and blow us out,

3208
02:46:20,000 --> 02:46:26,010
haven't lived in this city one day, all right, paid taxes

3209
02:46:26,010 --> 02:46:27,000
one day.

3210
02:46:27,000 --> 02:46:30,250
I mean, we lived here all along and we never saw this

3211
02:46:30,250 --> 02:46:31,000
coming.

3212
02:46:31,000 --> 02:46:34,120
No one ever told us, you know, that that would be something

3213
02:46:34,120 --> 02:46:36,000
that could be put in over there.

3214
02:46:36,000 --> 02:46:39,870
You know, they just said that think about Flow Hospital,

3215
02:46:39,870 --> 02:46:43,209
but think about we need spaces for other doctors and

3216
02:46:43,209 --> 02:46:44,000
services.

3217
02:46:44,000 --> 02:46:45,000
We don't have it, Flow.

3218
02:46:45,000 --> 02:46:46,000
Got it.

3219
02:46:46,000 --> 02:46:47,000
Thank you, sir.

3220
02:46:47,000 --> 02:46:57,000
Thank you very much.

3221
02:46:57,000 --> 02:46:57,000
Hi.

3222
02:46:57,000 --> 02:46:59,000
Thanks, y'all, for staying so late.

3223
02:46:59,000 --> 02:47:00,000
I don't know why we're always last.

3224
02:47:00,000 --> 02:47:02,000
Mary Anderson, 924 West Oak.

3225
02:47:02,000 --> 02:47:04,780
I'm beginning to get very familiar with you guys, or at

3226
02:47:04,780 --> 02:47:06,000
least City Council.

3227
02:47:06,000 --> 02:47:12,000
But, you know, I want to protest the notice for this.

3228
02:47:12,000 --> 02:47:13,000
The notice did appear in the paper.

3229
02:47:13,000 --> 02:47:15,239
Thank goodness I read the paper, even the back, because

3230
02:47:15,239 --> 02:47:17,000
there's not much in the paper these days.

3231
02:47:17,000 --> 02:47:19,590
But the notice was planted on normal, so far down on the

3232
02:47:19,590 --> 02:47:22,520
property line that nobody on Scripture, which I drive by

3233
02:47:22,520 --> 02:47:24,000
quite a lot, could see.

3234
02:47:24,000 --> 02:47:28,000
So nobody was going to show up because it wasn't obvious.

3235
02:47:28,000 --> 02:47:30,350
They're rezoning all of it, so why isn't it obvious to me

3236
02:47:30,350 --> 02:47:32,000
that I could see this on the street?

3237
02:47:32,000 --> 02:47:33,000
Bad.

3238
02:47:33,000 --> 02:47:35,000
We really don't need more apartments.

3239
02:47:35,000 --> 02:47:37,000
Certainly not in my neighborhood.

3240
02:47:37,000 --> 02:47:39,000
There are vacant apartments everywhere.

3241
02:47:39,000 --> 02:47:40,000
They just don't advertise them.

3242
02:47:40,000 --> 02:47:42,250
There are -- I drive around at this time of year when the

3243
02:47:42,250 --> 02:47:44,000
students have given up this semester.

3244
02:47:44,000 --> 02:47:45,000
You know, they've gone away.

3245
02:47:45,000 --> 02:47:46,000
I teach.

3246
02:47:46,000 --> 02:47:47,000
They drop classes.

3247
02:47:47,000 --> 02:47:48,000
They leave.

3248
02:47:48,000 --> 02:47:49,000
The moving vans are going.

3249
02:47:49,000 --> 02:47:51,000
There are plenty of empty apartments.

3250
02:47:51,000 --> 02:47:53,000
We just want to see whose pockets get filled first.

3251
02:47:53,000 --> 02:47:55,030
They're going to have somebody take the money and run out

3252
02:47:55,030 --> 02:47:56,000
of state, out of town.

3253
02:47:56,000 --> 02:47:58,000
They're not going to leave the money here.

3254
02:47:58,000 --> 02:48:00,000
They'll employ, you know, a manager.

3255
02:48:00,000 --> 02:48:01,000
That's about it.

3256
02:48:01,000 --> 02:48:04,290
UNT is building apartments, I think, west of here, so there

3257
02:48:04,290 --> 02:48:06,000
's not really any more need.

3258
02:48:06,000 --> 02:48:09,000
And with online learning, there is no mass transit there.

3259
02:48:09,000 --> 02:48:10,000
There is no decent streets.

3260
02:48:10,000 --> 02:48:12,590
Where are we going to get all this infrastructure that we

3261
02:48:12,590 --> 02:48:13,000
need?

3262
02:48:13,000 --> 02:48:14,000
I live downhill.

3263
02:48:14,000 --> 02:48:17,000
I'm going to get flooded, like the lady on Egan said.

3264
02:48:17,000 --> 02:48:20,000
There just isn't any place to park.

3265
02:48:20,000 --> 02:48:21,000
There's no mass transit.

3266
02:48:21,000 --> 02:48:24,000
You know, development is great, just not here.

3267
02:48:24,000 --> 02:48:27,000
We don't need the development in this location.

3268
02:48:27,000 --> 02:48:29,430
And besides, once you get that one approved, they're just

3269
02:48:29,430 --> 02:48:31,000
going to go over and do it again

3270
02:48:31,000 --> 02:48:33,979
because we're going to get EDR back, and they're going to

3271
02:48:33,979 --> 02:48:35,000
want to put another SRO.

3272
02:48:35,000 --> 02:48:37,090
And when these buildings get old and tired, they'll turn

3273
02:48:37,090 --> 02:48:39,000
transient because the trend will go away,

3274
02:48:39,000 --> 02:48:41,000
and families are never going to want to live in SROs.

3275
02:48:41,000 --> 02:48:42,000
That's horrid.

3276
02:48:42,000 --> 02:48:44,559
I wouldn't want my children to live with, you know, serial

3277
02:48:44,559 --> 02:48:46,000
killers next door in the same apartment.

3278
02:48:46,000 --> 02:48:48,000
You never know.

3279
02:48:48,000 --> 02:48:49,809
They're taking the money and running, and there's no

3280
02:48:49,809 --> 02:48:51,000
benefit to the neighborhood.

3281
02:48:51,000 --> 02:48:52,000
Where's the benefit?

3282
02:48:52,000 --> 02:48:54,000
We're going to have to have more services.

3283
02:48:54,000 --> 02:48:56,000
Where's the benefit for us?

3284
02:48:56,000 --> 02:48:58,000
I don't see any benefit.

3285
02:48:58,000 --> 02:49:00,000
It's not respectful of the neighborhood.

3286
02:49:00,000 --> 02:49:02,030
It's just somebody trying to make a quick killing in my

3287
02:49:02,030 --> 02:49:03,000
neighborhood again.

3288
02:49:03,000 --> 02:49:05,590
And the apartments on Oak across from where EDR wants to

3289
02:49:05,590 --> 02:49:06,000
build,

3290
02:49:06,000 --> 02:49:08,000
funny, those apartments are almost all vacant.

3291
02:49:08,000 --> 02:49:10,000
What do you think is happening next?

3292
02:49:10,000 --> 02:49:12,200
A few more carpetbaggers are going to come in on Oak and do

3293
02:49:12,200 --> 02:49:13,000
more of the same thing,

3294
02:49:13,000 --> 02:49:14,000
take the money and run.

3295
02:49:14,000 --> 02:49:16,000
So really keep this in mind.

3296
02:49:16,000 --> 02:49:18,309
The intent is worth the paper it was written on that Mr. Cl

3297
02:49:18,309 --> 02:49:19,000
ifton said.

3298
02:49:19,000 --> 02:49:20,000
There was no paper.

3299
02:49:20,000 --> 02:49:23,000
They promised something, and you know what happens?

3300
02:49:23,000 --> 02:49:24,000
It's worth the paper.

3301
02:49:24,000 --> 02:49:25,000
It was written on nothing.

3302
02:49:25,000 --> 02:49:28,000
So please, you know, show us a little respect.

3303
02:49:28,000 --> 02:49:30,000
We are tired of staying here late, too.

3304
02:49:30,000 --> 02:49:32,559
You know, send a message to the developers, enough is

3305
02:49:32,559 --> 02:49:33,000
enough.

3306
02:49:33,000 --> 02:49:36,129
You know, make it within the neighborhood restrictions, and

3307
02:49:36,129 --> 02:49:37,000
keep it respectful.

3308
02:49:37,000 --> 02:49:41,350
We can't afford all this nasty parking traffic and people

3309
02:49:41,350 --> 02:49:42,000
getting run over.

3310
02:49:42,000 --> 02:49:44,000
You know, it's going to happen.

3311
02:49:44,000 --> 02:49:45,000
Thank you.

3312
02:49:45,000 --> 02:49:46,000
A question for you.

3313
02:49:46,000 --> 02:49:49,340
You made a comment that you didn't think the notice was

3314
02:49:49,340 --> 02:49:50,000
well done,

3315
02:49:50,000 --> 02:49:52,370
and I think the reason maybe the notice wasn't on the

3316
02:49:52,370 --> 02:49:53,000
scriptures

3317
02:49:53,000 --> 02:49:55,000
is because that's already zoned.

3318
02:49:55,000 --> 02:49:57,559
The rezoning is for the property that's farther down on

3319
02:49:57,559 --> 02:49:58,000
normal.

3320
02:49:58,000 --> 02:49:59,799
But they're going to put it together, so is that out of

3321
02:49:59,799 --> 02:50:01,000
replatting, too?

3322
02:50:01,000 --> 02:50:03,790
Well, right now we have a zoning before us, and so it's a

3323
02:50:03,790 --> 02:50:05,000
zoning notice.

3324
02:50:05,000 --> 02:50:07,000
The plat shows all of it.

3325
02:50:07,000 --> 02:50:09,000
Well, you made a statement, and I was trying to help

3326
02:50:09,000 --> 02:50:11,680
and address your question about the notice that you brought

3327
02:50:11,680 --> 02:50:12,000
up.

3328
02:50:12,000 --> 02:50:16,000
And so the notice was posted where the zoning change is not

3329
02:50:16,000 --> 02:50:16,000
on a piece of property

3330
02:50:16,000 --> 02:50:19,000
that is not being rezoned because what's before us tonight

3331
02:50:19,000 --> 02:50:20,000
is rezoning.

3332
02:50:20,000 --> 02:50:23,629
So they have put the notice on the property that's being

3333
02:50:23,629 --> 02:50:25,000
requested to be rezoned.

3334
02:50:25,000 --> 02:50:27,000
As far away from scripture as humanly possible.

3335
02:50:27,000 --> 02:50:28,459
Just letting you know, that's why it wasn't on the

3336
02:50:28,459 --> 02:50:29,000
scriptures.

3337
02:50:29,000 --> 02:50:31,000
I got to be as far away as humanly possible,

3338
02:50:31,000 --> 02:50:33,000
because I drove there just before I came here.

3339
02:50:33,000 --> 02:50:35,000
Because I never saw it, and I drive by all the time.

3340
02:50:35,000 --> 02:50:37,000
Just responding to your point.

3341
02:50:37,000 --> 02:50:39,000
I appreciate that, at least the explanation of why.

3342
02:50:39,000 --> 02:50:41,000
I see now very carefully here, yeah.

3343
02:50:41,000 --> 02:50:43,000
Any other questions?

3344
02:50:43,000 --> 02:50:45,000
Thank you.

3345
02:50:45,000 --> 02:50:47,000
Thank you so much.

3346
02:50:52,000 --> 02:50:54,000
Hi, I'm Patrice Lyke.

3347
02:50:54,000 --> 02:50:56,000
I live in 1109 Egan.

3348
02:50:56,000 --> 02:50:58,639
And the first thing I wanted to do was to address

3349
02:50:58,639 --> 02:51:00,000
Commissioner Beck.

3350
02:51:00,000 --> 02:51:05,329
You asked Mr. Clifton about the 2002 zoning and any public

3351
02:51:05,329 --> 02:51:06,000
hearings,

3352
02:51:06,000 --> 02:51:08,000
and did he know what was going to happen there?

3353
02:51:08,000 --> 02:51:11,010
And I just wanted to say that I've lived on Egan Street for

3354
02:51:11,010 --> 02:51:12,000
20 years.

3355
02:51:12,000 --> 02:51:16,000
And 15 years ago, Denton was a different place.

3356
02:51:16,000 --> 02:51:20,000
And our old neighborhoods were different places.

3357
02:51:20,000 --> 02:51:24,000
Flow Hospital was still intact 15 years ago.

3358
02:51:24,000 --> 02:51:26,000
And it's true, you know, everything.

3359
02:51:26,000 --> 02:51:29,520
If you grew up in Denton, you know that Flow Hospital anch

3360
02:51:29,520 --> 02:51:32,000
ored the neighborhood.

3361
02:51:32,000 --> 02:51:35,549
And that neighborhood scale goods and services and

3362
02:51:35,549 --> 02:51:38,000
facilities grew up around that.

3363
02:51:38,000 --> 02:51:41,709
So that meant that, yes, when the Minton's lived on 1400

3364
02:51:41,709 --> 02:51:43,000
block of Egan Street,

3365
02:51:43,000 --> 02:51:45,590
and they had a tiny strip mall right behind them, it was

3366
02:51:45,590 --> 02:51:47,000
neighborhood scale.

3367
02:51:47,000 --> 02:51:49,770
And you could go up to Mr. New's Pharmacy, get your

3368
02:51:49,770 --> 02:51:53,000
antibiotics, and be home in half a block.

3369
02:51:53,000 --> 02:51:59,000
So 15 years ago, we also did not have SROs in Denton.

3370
02:51:59,000 --> 02:52:02,000
And I bet you if you ask most people on planning and zoning

3371
02:52:02,000 --> 02:52:03,000
or city council,

3372
02:52:03,000 --> 02:52:07,000
they had no idea such a thing even existed.

3373
02:52:07,000 --> 02:52:11,000
So when we call this multifamily, it's really a misnomer,

3374
02:52:11,000 --> 02:52:16,000
because single resident occupancy is not family occupancy,

3375
02:52:16,000 --> 02:52:20,000
which of course means that when these structures are built,

3376
02:52:20,000 --> 02:52:24,000
they're never built to accommodate a family.

3377
02:52:24,000 --> 02:52:27,000
They're only built to be glorified dorms.

3378
02:52:27,000 --> 02:52:31,000
In my opinion, that's really a separate zoning category.

3379
02:52:31,000 --> 02:52:37,260
So you're dealing with a transient population that are just

3380
02:52:37,260 --> 02:52:40,000
simply going to be cycling through multifamily,

3381
02:52:40,000 --> 02:52:44,000
as I said, is misnomer when we're talking about SROs.

3382
02:52:44,000 --> 02:52:48,260
So in terms of our neighborhood being aware 15 years ago of

3383
02:52:48,260 --> 02:52:52,000
what could go in and how that site could be used,

3384
02:52:52,000 --> 02:52:56,459
honestly, no, we had no idea what could be coming our

3385
02:52:56,459 --> 02:52:59,000
direction in 15 years.

3386
02:52:59,000 --> 02:53:02,440
We sat there with flow. We had no idea that SROs even

3387
02:53:02,440 --> 02:53:03,000
existed.

3388
02:53:03,000 --> 02:53:07,149
So no, we were not going to be prepared to be fighting this

3389
02:53:07,149 --> 02:53:09,000
15 years later.

3390
02:53:09,000 --> 02:53:12,000
I'll be back in a couple weeks.

3391
02:53:12,000 --> 02:53:15,200
But just something I'd like to point out, of course, is

3392
02:53:15,200 --> 02:53:18,000
that just like Paul was saying,

3393
02:53:18,000 --> 02:53:22,670
we're really looking at an area that was never meant to be

3394
02:53:22,670 --> 02:53:25,000
university compatible.

3395
02:53:25,000 --> 02:53:29,000
It was meant to be hospital district compatible.

3396
02:53:29,000 --> 02:53:33,000
And UNT is building dormitories.

3397
02:53:33,000 --> 02:53:36,729
The last meeting I was in, UNT said that it's hoping for an

3398
02:53:36,729 --> 02:53:39,000
enrollment of 45,000.

3399
02:53:39,000 --> 02:53:43,000
It has built infrastructure for 40,000,

3400
02:53:43,000 --> 02:53:48,000
and they have no plans to increase the infrastructure.

3401
02:53:48,000 --> 02:53:51,000
They're going for online programming.

3402
02:53:51,000 --> 02:53:54,000
I mean, I don't know how that's going to tie into this.

3403
02:53:54,000 --> 02:53:57,000
But honestly, we're not Denton.

3404
02:53:57,000 --> 02:54:00,200
The city of Denton does not have to provide housing for UNT

3405
02:54:00,200 --> 02:54:01,000
students.

3406
02:54:01,000 --> 02:54:04,000
It's just not our business.

3407
02:54:04,000 --> 02:54:07,020
Another thing I was going to talk about real quickly was

3408
02:54:07,020 --> 02:54:08,000
infrastructure.

3409
02:54:08,000 --> 02:54:13,770
And simply, the roads in that area cannot handle increased

3410
02:54:13,770 --> 02:54:15,000
traffic.

3411
02:54:15,000 --> 02:54:18,000
And those students are going to have to leave that site.

3412
02:54:18,000 --> 02:54:21,260
Because it's only residential, there's going to be no

3413
02:54:21,260 --> 02:54:24,000
commercial currently planned on that site.

3414
02:54:24,000 --> 02:54:26,000
Then you're going to need toilet paper.

3415
02:54:26,000 --> 02:54:29,000
They're going to need eggs.

3416
02:54:29,000 --> 02:54:31,760
They're going to have to get in their cars and be zipping

3417
02:54:31,760 --> 02:54:35,000
around the neighborhood to get these things.

3418
02:54:35,000 --> 02:54:41,459
If you look even at Scripture and how well completed the

3419
02:54:41,459 --> 02:54:43,000
street is,

3420
02:54:43,000 --> 02:54:48,979
when you get to the farthest east, I guess it's on the

3421
02:54:48,979 --> 02:54:50,000
southeast side,

3422
02:54:50,000 --> 02:54:52,000
Scripture isn't even finished out.

3423
02:54:52,000 --> 02:54:54,000
It doesn't have a curb and gutter.

3424
02:54:54,000 --> 02:54:58,000
The pavement just kind of ends.

3425
02:54:58,000 --> 02:55:00,000
And there's a little ditch there.

3426
02:55:00,000 --> 02:55:03,209
So we're talking about adding all these warm bodies, all

3427
02:55:03,209 --> 02:55:04,000
these cars,

3428
02:55:04,000 --> 02:55:08,209
all the drainage to an area that doesn't even have a

3429
02:55:08,209 --> 02:55:10,000
finished street.

3430
02:55:10,000 --> 02:55:13,000
I'll just -- I'll see you again.

3431
02:55:13,000 --> 02:55:18,000
[ Laughter ]

3432
02:55:18,000 --> 02:55:20,000
>> Commissioner Back.

3433
02:55:20,000 --> 02:55:23,000
>> I have a general question, I think for staff mainly.

3434
02:55:23,000 --> 02:55:26,840
I didn't see anything of background information or the

3435
02:55:26,840 --> 02:55:32,000
Africans' narrative about the analysis of road traffic.

3436
02:55:32,000 --> 02:55:35,000
What do we call that?

3437
02:55:35,000 --> 02:55:37,000
Yeah, T-A-R, T-R-A or something.

3438
02:55:37,000 --> 02:55:38,000
>> T-I-A.

3439
02:55:38,000 --> 02:55:39,000
>> T-I-A, thank you.

3440
02:55:39,000 --> 02:55:42,000
I didn't see that in any of the paperwork.

3441
02:55:42,000 --> 02:55:44,000
So have we done that?

3442
02:55:44,000 --> 02:55:48,000
And if not, will we be doing it?

3443
02:55:48,000 --> 02:55:50,000
>> I'm April Erle.

3444
02:55:50,000 --> 02:55:53,000
Engineering has done a preliminary look at some numbers

3445
02:55:53,000 --> 02:55:56,000
that they've provided as far as traffic impact.

3446
02:55:56,000 --> 02:55:57,000
So I'll call Erle up.

3447
02:55:57,000 --> 02:56:05,000
>> Thanks, Julie.

3448
02:56:05,000 --> 02:56:08,600
>> As part of the zoning application, they submitted a

3449
02:56:08,600 --> 02:56:12,000
brief summary of what the traffic impact would be.

3450
02:56:12,000 --> 02:56:15,000
It's really not as detailed as we expect it to be.

3451
02:56:15,000 --> 02:56:17,479
So we're hoping that the applicant can shed a little bit

3452
02:56:17,479 --> 02:56:20,000
more light when they come up and present their case.

3453
02:56:20,000 --> 02:56:22,000
>> Okay.

3454
02:56:22,000 --> 02:56:31,000
Thank you.

3455
02:56:31,000 --> 02:56:33,000
>> Can you get one and we'll put it back up overhead?

3456
02:56:33,000 --> 02:56:42,000
>> I'll put one up here too.

3457
02:56:42,000 --> 02:56:45,170
So I wanted to start out tonight and ask you to think about

3458
02:56:45,170 --> 02:56:48,000
your most favorite place to go vacationing.

3459
02:56:48,000 --> 02:56:50,000
>> Name.

3460
02:56:50,000 --> 02:56:52,000
>> Name and address.

3461
02:56:52,000 --> 02:56:53,000
>> Oh, I'm sorry.

3462
02:56:53,000 --> 02:56:55,000
My name is Randy Hunt.

3463
02:56:55,000 --> 02:56:58,000
I'm at 722 West Oak.

3464
02:56:58,000 --> 02:57:03,000
Randy Hunt, 722 West Oak.

3465
02:57:03,000 --> 02:57:07,000
So I think everybody has got a place it's fun to go to.

3466
02:57:07,000 --> 02:57:12,000
But the reason it's fun is because it's a sense of place.

3467
02:57:12,000 --> 02:57:14,000
And that's a very key word.

3468
02:57:14,000 --> 02:57:17,000
A very important thing for all of us.

3469
02:57:17,000 --> 02:57:22,329
So as I've started asking questions to some of the state

3470
02:57:22,329 --> 02:57:25,459
agencies, they're really supplying us with a lot of

3471
02:57:25,459 --> 02:57:29,000
information about how do you create a sense of place.

3472
02:57:29,000 --> 02:57:32,340
So one of the documents is to the U.S. Conference of Mayors

3473
02:57:32,340 --> 02:57:35,000
, the Mayors Institute of City Design.

3474
02:57:35,000 --> 02:57:37,000
And that's their theme.

3475
02:57:37,000 --> 02:57:39,000
How do you create a sense of place?

3476
02:57:39,000 --> 02:57:42,000
We've got a sense of place.

3477
02:57:42,000 --> 02:57:45,000
And it's cool.

3478
02:57:45,000 --> 02:57:49,000
We have these are the old Sanborn maps.

3479
02:57:49,000 --> 02:57:52,000
And I'll bring it back for next time.

3480
02:57:52,000 --> 02:57:55,000
But, you know, this is what the city looked like.

3481
02:57:55,000 --> 02:57:57,000
These are basically our city limits.

3482
02:57:57,000 --> 02:58:01,000
This is in 1907, 100 years ago.

3483
02:58:01,000 --> 02:58:03,000
Here it is in 1912.

3484
02:58:03,000 --> 02:58:07,000
And these go like every five to seven years.

3485
02:58:07,000 --> 02:58:10,870
But what you're seeing is that it starts to develop because

3486
02:58:10,870 --> 02:58:15,110
this is when Texas Normal College got pushed down off the

3487
02:58:15,110 --> 02:58:16,000
square.

3488
02:58:16,000 --> 02:58:19,000
And it got there because then citizens put it there.

3489
02:58:19,000 --> 02:58:22,000
They bought the land and convinced everyone.

3490
02:58:22,000 --> 02:58:25,000
The important thing about the map that I was giving you,

3491
02:58:25,000 --> 02:58:28,850
this comes from a survey done by the Texas Historic

3492
02:58:28,850 --> 02:58:30,000
Commission.

3493
02:58:30,000 --> 02:58:33,790
What they're doing is giving us the breadcrumbs for us to

3494
02:58:33,790 --> 02:58:38,059
go follow because if we want to create tourism, like

3495
02:58:38,059 --> 02:58:41,450
cultural tourism, which is the big theme now, we need

3496
02:58:41,450 --> 02:58:43,000
historic districts.

3497
02:58:43,000 --> 02:58:47,540
And we've just created a National Register District that

3498
02:58:47,540 --> 02:58:52,000
will be listed in the National Park Service Historic,

3499
02:58:52,000 --> 02:58:54,000
National Register of Historic Places.

3500
02:58:54,000 --> 02:58:58,000
We're in step five of six.

3501
02:58:58,000 --> 02:59:01,500
So it's not quite done yet, but all the approvals from the

3502
02:59:01,500 --> 02:59:04,000
Texas Historic Commission are done.

3503
02:59:04,000 --> 02:59:09,000
So on this map, I don't know how to illustrate it.

3504
02:59:09,000 --> 02:59:11,000
I guess I'll just point to it here.

3505
02:59:11,000 --> 02:59:16,040
This whole area was what THC recommended to be a National

3506
02:59:16,040 --> 02:59:18,000
Register District.

3507
02:59:18,000 --> 02:59:21,989
They also recommended this area to be a National Register

3508
02:59:21,989 --> 02:59:23,000
District.

3509
02:59:23,000 --> 02:59:28,000
So we're talking to them now that we've got our part done,

3510
02:59:28,000 --> 02:59:31,000
which is about 350 homes.

3511
02:59:31,000 --> 02:59:33,000
How do we go do this?

3512
02:59:33,000 --> 02:59:38,700
And they're saying, get busy, because you've got properties

3513
02:59:38,700 --> 02:59:42,000
over here that are worth saving.

3514
02:59:42,000 --> 02:59:44,000
So that's the theme.

3515
02:59:44,000 --> 02:59:48,520
What we need to do is to replicate what we've done in the

3516
02:59:48,520 --> 02:59:53,559
dark green area, over here in the light green area, and a

3517
02:59:53,559 --> 03:00:00,000
five-story building does not create a sense of place.

3518
03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:03,760
If you want a reference to that, think about how the

3519
03:00:03,760 --> 03:00:06,000
downtown square used to look.

3520
03:00:06,000 --> 03:00:10,540
Because you ever thought about why is there like a 10-story

3521
03:00:10,540 --> 03:00:14,000
building down there that sells Wells Fargo?

3522
03:00:14,000 --> 03:00:17,000
Do you know there actually was a bank there?

3523
03:00:17,000 --> 03:00:20,000
But it wasn't 10 stories.

3524
03:00:20,000 --> 03:00:23,000
That created a sense of place.

3525
03:00:23,000 --> 03:00:27,329
And to get the National Register for the square, man, they

3526
03:00:27,329 --> 03:00:30,579
had to get very creative, because you have to have at least

3527
03:00:30,579 --> 03:00:34,000
50% contributing properties there.

3528
03:00:34,000 --> 03:00:37,000
They've got it, but it's just the square.

3529
03:00:37,000 --> 03:00:40,000
Our area is 350 homes.

3530
03:00:40,000 --> 03:00:44,000
We can include another 250 in this area.

3531
03:00:44,000 --> 03:00:46,000
All we need is the time.

3532
03:00:46,000 --> 03:00:52,000
And all we need is the collaboration.

3533
03:00:52,000 --> 03:00:53,000
Commissioner Back.

3534
03:00:53,000 --> 03:00:54,000
Thank you, Chair.

3535
03:00:54,000 --> 03:00:58,389
When was the last time you all actually interacted with the

3536
03:00:58,389 --> 03:01:03,000
Texas Historic Agency to try and establish this district?

3537
03:01:03,000 --> 03:01:07,000
Well, it's been consistent for the last year and a half.

3538
03:01:07,000 --> 03:01:08,000
Okay.

3539
03:01:08,000 --> 03:01:09,000
So it's been recent.

3540
03:01:09,000 --> 03:01:10,000
Oh, yeah.

3541
03:01:10,000 --> 03:01:11,000
Okay.

3542
03:01:11,000 --> 03:01:12,000
Yeah.

3543
03:01:12,000 --> 03:01:15,469
I didn't get the final approval that the staff had done

3544
03:01:15,469 --> 03:01:19,000
their final recommendations until two weeks ago.

3545
03:01:19,000 --> 03:01:20,000
Okay.

3546
03:01:20,000 --> 03:01:25,979
Has anybody in your area considered overlay districts for

3547
03:01:25,979 --> 03:01:28,000
areas like this?

3548
03:01:28,000 --> 03:01:29,000
Well, if anything.

3549
03:01:29,000 --> 03:01:32,440
We've got a couple already in that general area, so is

3550
03:01:32,440 --> 03:01:36,200
there any further consideration given towards an overlay

3551
03:01:36,200 --> 03:01:38,000
district for this area?

3552
03:01:38,000 --> 03:01:39,000
Absolutely.

3553
03:01:39,000 --> 03:01:41,879
And there's some things that had never been considered in

3554
03:01:41,879 --> 03:01:44,000
Denton before that we need to consider.

3555
03:01:44,000 --> 03:01:45,000
Okay.

3556
03:01:45,000 --> 03:01:46,000
Okay.

3557
03:01:46,000 --> 03:01:52,000
Thanks, Randy.

3558
03:01:52,000 --> 03:01:53,000
Thank you all for staying here.

3559
03:01:53,000 --> 03:01:57,000
I'm Jacqueline Ferge, and I'm also at 1401 Eagan.

3560
03:01:57,000 --> 03:02:00,149
I'm Michelle Lynn's tenant, and I'm glad to be her tenant

3561
03:02:00,149 --> 03:02:02,860
because what she said tonight, I would definitely replicate

3562
03:02:02,860 --> 03:02:03,000
.

3563
03:02:03,000 --> 03:02:07,000
I'm in favor of safe biking roads for her son.

3564
03:02:07,000 --> 03:02:09,690
I don't know how he makes it to howdy-doodie because I have

3565
03:02:09,690 --> 03:02:12,850
to stand at the corner of Scripture for five, 10 minutes

3566
03:02:12,850 --> 03:02:15,000
every morning just trying to cross.

3567
03:02:15,000 --> 03:02:17,000
I don't want Scripture to turn into Carroll.

3568
03:02:17,000 --> 03:02:19,000
It's why I live there.

3569
03:02:19,000 --> 03:02:22,780
It's why I left the square so I could walk to work, UNT, on

3570
03:02:22,780 --> 03:02:25,000
a safe, quiet neighborhood.

3571
03:02:25,000 --> 03:02:27,809
I don't want there to be any more beds than there are

3572
03:02:27,809 --> 03:02:31,340
parking places, and whatever you all allow in there, I want

3573
03:02:31,340 --> 03:02:34,000
absolutely neighborhood compatibility.

3574
03:02:34,000 --> 03:02:37,870
And, you know, frankly, my biggest dream is that no would

3575
03:02:37,870 --> 03:02:39,000
mean no.

3576
03:02:39,000 --> 03:02:42,329
You know, we are here, I think, not because this gentleman,

3577
03:02:42,329 --> 03:02:46,059
you know, wants to use the property values of this historic

3578
03:02:46,059 --> 03:02:49,000
neighborhood to enrich his own enterprise,

3579
03:02:49,000 --> 03:02:51,829
but because you all keep leaving the back door open for

3580
03:02:51,829 --> 03:02:54,950
everybody who wants to come along and say, how about this,

3581
03:02:54,950 --> 03:02:56,000
how about that?

3582
03:02:56,000 --> 03:02:59,829
You know we are a committed, organized, historic-minded

3583
03:02:59,829 --> 03:03:03,750
neighborhood, and it would be just so great if we could all

3584
03:03:03,750 --> 03:03:08,700
just kind of stay there and hear what we're saying and let

3585
03:03:08,700 --> 03:03:11,000
this be the character of this neighborhood.

3586
03:03:11,000 --> 03:03:14,000
For now, for good.

3587
03:03:14,000 --> 03:03:16,000
That would be so appreciated.

3588
03:03:16,000 --> 03:03:24,000
Thank you all very much.

3589
03:03:24,000 --> 03:03:26,000
Again, this is a public hearing.

3590
03:03:26,000 --> 03:03:29,510
Anyone who would like to speak, please come forward at this

3591
03:03:29,510 --> 03:03:30,000
time.

3592
03:03:30,000 --> 03:03:32,000
Hi, it's Kim McKibbin.

3593
03:03:32,000 --> 03:03:38,000
I own property at 1306 West Hickory Street here in Denton.

3594
03:03:38,000 --> 03:03:41,870
And I am here, I was here at the earlier meeting as well,

3595
03:03:41,870 --> 03:03:45,000
because I'm curious about what's going on in Denton.

3596
03:03:45,000 --> 03:03:49,000
I have started to read the 2030 plan.

3597
03:03:49,000 --> 03:03:50,000
I've looked at a lot of the maps.

3598
03:03:50,000 --> 03:03:52,000
It is quite detailed.

3599
03:03:52,000 --> 03:03:58,239
And it was brought up earlier is that the community, the

3600
03:03:58,239 --> 03:04:02,079
university compatibility area shouldn't be moving back

3601
03:04:02,079 --> 03:04:07,000
towards the university with that height, but away from it.

3602
03:04:07,000 --> 03:04:10,000
Now, I worked at Flow Hospital.

3603
03:04:10,000 --> 03:04:12,829
I was one of the last ones out of the building when they

3604
03:04:12,829 --> 03:04:14,000
closed the doors.

3605
03:04:14,000 --> 03:04:17,229
Flow was never supposed to turn into any kind of student

3606
03:04:17,229 --> 03:04:18,000
housing.

3607
03:04:18,000 --> 03:04:22,000
That was not what the intent was when it was sold.

3608
03:04:22,000 --> 03:04:25,950
So I have a little bit of history in this area because I

3609
03:04:25,950 --> 03:04:30,000
worked there on all three floors of Flow Hospital.

3610
03:04:30,000 --> 03:04:35,329
And I am very concerned about the request to rezone without

3611
03:04:35,329 --> 03:04:40,000
any commitment to what's going to be done with that.

3612
03:04:40,000 --> 03:04:42,000
There is a compromise in there somewhere.

3613
03:04:42,000 --> 03:04:45,610
You don't have to build a 10-story building and you don't

3614
03:04:45,610 --> 03:04:48,000
have to build a 2-story building.

3615
03:04:48,000 --> 03:04:51,000
There are structures that would fit.

3616
03:04:51,000 --> 03:04:55,459
However, the greed of the developers keeps that from

3617
03:04:55,459 --> 03:04:58,000
happening in a lot of cases.

3618
03:04:58,000 --> 03:05:02,229
The historical buildings you're going to have, you know, I

3619
03:05:02,229 --> 03:05:06,000
don't know what you're going to do about the trees.

3620
03:05:06,000 --> 03:05:07,270
How are they going to put those things there and not

3621
03:05:07,270 --> 03:05:08,000
mitigate these trees?

3622
03:05:08,000 --> 03:05:10,590
You guys were working on your tree ordinance not too long

3623
03:05:10,590 --> 03:05:11,000
ago.

3624
03:05:11,000 --> 03:05:13,000
I am concerned about the traffic.

3625
03:05:13,000 --> 03:05:16,000
My business is downhill from there.

3626
03:05:16,000 --> 03:05:20,000
So there's going to be a lot of things happening there.

3627
03:05:20,000 --> 03:05:23,280
And yes, whatever they put there, they need to have one-to-

3628
03:05:23,280 --> 03:05:25,329
one parking and they're going to have to do a lot of work on

3629
03:05:25,329 --> 03:05:26,000
the infrastructure.

3630
03:05:26,000 --> 03:05:31,000
I am personally very much opposed to single room occupancy.

3631
03:05:31,000 --> 03:05:36,000
That leaves it only to students where there could be

3632
03:05:36,000 --> 03:05:38,000
studios built here.

3633
03:05:38,000 --> 03:05:41,000
There could be one-to-two-bedroom apartments built here,

3634
03:05:41,000 --> 03:05:43,489
which would not only serve the students, but also serve the

3635
03:05:43,489 --> 03:05:45,000
rest of Denton.

3636
03:05:45,000 --> 03:05:47,000
We have people moving into the areas.

3637
03:05:47,000 --> 03:05:49,000
Yes, we need housing for them.

3638
03:05:49,000 --> 03:05:51,780
I want to move to a place in Denton that I can't find a

3639
03:05:51,780 --> 03:05:53,000
house right now.

3640
03:05:53,000 --> 03:05:55,000
So I have sympathy with that.

3641
03:05:55,000 --> 03:05:58,629
But as someone else said, it's not the city's

3642
03:05:58,629 --> 03:06:03,629
responsibility to provide dormitories for the University of

3643
03:06:03,629 --> 03:06:05,000
North Texas.

3644
03:06:05,000 --> 03:06:11,100
Seeing as there are currently 9,384 of them in Denton

3645
03:06:11,100 --> 03:06:15,000
spread out between 26 complexes.

3646
03:06:15,000 --> 03:06:18,670
Now, that was the number from an article I found in

3647
03:06:18,670 --> 03:06:21,000
November of 2016.

3648
03:06:21,000 --> 03:06:26,000
How many do we really need in Denton?

3649
03:06:26,000 --> 03:06:29,610
And as these cannot be used for anything else in the

3650
03:06:29,610 --> 03:06:33,430
population of the University, if it goes online, it's going

3651
03:06:33,430 --> 03:06:34,000
to go down.

3652
03:06:34,000 --> 03:06:38,000
Just really be very careful what you do.

3653
03:06:38,000 --> 03:06:42,430
I know you guys will, and I know you're stuck with just the

3654
03:06:42,430 --> 03:06:45,000
rezoning stuff at this point.

3655
03:06:45,000 --> 03:06:48,000
But then after you rezone it, what happens?

3656
03:06:48,000 --> 03:06:50,000
Do they ask for a little bit more?

3657
03:06:50,000 --> 03:06:54,590
I don't believe an overlay is a solution because they

3658
03:06:54,590 --> 03:06:58,059
walked right in and asked for a variance to the overlay

3659
03:06:58,059 --> 03:07:02,000
down on Hickory Street.

3660
03:07:02,000 --> 03:07:06,000
And that didn't stop them at all.

3661
03:07:06,000 --> 03:07:11,370
So please be aware we need housing, we need spaces, people

3662
03:07:11,370 --> 03:07:13,000
need parking.

3663
03:07:13,000 --> 03:07:16,000
It is in a food desert. Someone said something about that.

3664
03:07:16,000 --> 03:07:19,889
There's no place to even buy a head of lettuce anywhere

3665
03:07:19,889 --> 03:07:21,000
down there.

3666
03:07:21,000 --> 03:07:24,100
Please, as you move forward with this rezoning and with

3667
03:07:24,100 --> 03:07:27,229
what you allow to be built there, because I'm pretty sure

3668
03:07:27,229 --> 03:07:29,000
something will be built there.

3669
03:07:29,000 --> 03:07:31,000
What do we need?

3670
03:07:31,000 --> 03:07:33,000
What will we need 20 years from now?

3671
03:07:33,000 --> 03:07:36,000
And what will we need 25, 30 years from now?

3672
03:07:36,000 --> 03:07:38,000
I intend to retire in Denton.

3673
03:07:38,000 --> 03:07:43,000
And hopefully I'll find a place to live.

3674
03:07:43,000 --> 03:07:44,000
Thank you.

3675
03:07:44,000 --> 03:07:45,000
A question for you.

3676
03:07:45,000 --> 03:07:46,000
Yes, sir.

3677
03:07:46,000 --> 03:07:49,000
I was encouraged to hear you say the word compromise.

3678
03:07:49,000 --> 03:07:53,000
And I think that may be a missing piece.

3679
03:07:53,000 --> 03:07:56,200
Do you have some ideas of what compromise for you is on

3680
03:07:56,200 --> 03:07:58,000
this particular parcel?

3681
03:07:58,000 --> 03:08:02,000
Well, if you start to look at the height is a major issue.

3682
03:08:02,000 --> 03:08:04,000
And it truly is.

3683
03:08:04,000 --> 03:08:06,899
A compromise here, which I think maybe some of the people

3684
03:08:06,899 --> 03:08:10,000
in the neighborhood might like to see, is something lower.

3685
03:08:10,000 --> 03:08:13,000
Some not SROs.

3686
03:08:13,000 --> 03:08:16,260
If you could have studio apartments, if you could have one

3687
03:08:16,260 --> 03:08:19,469
and two bedroom apartments that kept some of the walk

3688
03:08:19,469 --> 03:08:24,000
ability to the area, our faculty and staff would also at UNT

3689
03:08:24,000 --> 03:08:26,000
would also have a place to live.

3690
03:08:26,000 --> 03:08:29,709
So I think that if you could compromise somehow and get the

3691
03:08:29,709 --> 03:08:33,190
developer to talk to the people, I know even when they

3692
03:08:33,190 --> 03:08:36,389
built the youth center down there on Fry Street, they

3693
03:08:36,389 --> 03:08:40,159
worked with the neighborhood adjoining them to what the

3694
03:08:40,159 --> 03:08:43,159
structure looked like, to what it would be made out of, to

3695
03:08:43,159 --> 03:08:45,889
what the feel would be, to how far the setbacks would be

3696
03:08:45,889 --> 03:08:48,000
and what plants would be there.

3697
03:08:48,000 --> 03:08:52,000
So their development is inevitable.

3698
03:08:52,000 --> 03:08:54,000
But there needs to be a compromise.

3699
03:08:54,000 --> 03:08:58,680
And it can't all always be about the end profit for the

3700
03:08:58,680 --> 03:09:00,000
developer.

3701
03:09:00,000 --> 03:09:04,350
A lot of times it truly needs to be about the environment

3702
03:09:04,350 --> 03:09:09,000
and the safety of the people and the citizens of Denton.

3703
03:09:09,000 --> 03:09:11,000
And I'm talking longtime citizens.

3704
03:09:11,000 --> 03:09:14,000
I know we survive off the students and all of that.

3705
03:09:14,000 --> 03:09:17,610
But so long as I've been here for a while and we came here

3706
03:09:17,610 --> 03:09:20,000
as students and we stayed here.

3707
03:09:20,000 --> 03:09:22,000
And I think that there's going to be more people like that.

3708
03:09:22,000 --> 03:09:26,000
Denton is one of the top places to retire to now.

3709
03:09:26,000 --> 03:09:28,000
Where are you going to put us?

3710
03:09:28,000 --> 03:09:31,729
Are any of these apartments going to be handicap accessible

3711
03:09:31,729 --> 03:09:32,000
?

3712
03:09:32,000 --> 03:09:34,000
What are you going to do with us?

3713
03:09:34,000 --> 03:09:39,000
So I think that Denton's at a tipping point.

3714
03:09:39,000 --> 03:09:44,000
I think that we might need to look at SROs.

3715
03:09:44,000 --> 03:09:45,000
How many do we need?

3716
03:09:45,000 --> 03:09:48,360
Does it require a special use permit to put those things in

3717
03:09:48,360 --> 03:09:49,000
there?

3718
03:09:49,000 --> 03:09:50,000
What's the parking going to be?

3719
03:09:50,000 --> 03:09:53,629
There's certainly not single family dwellings or multiple

3720
03:09:53,629 --> 03:09:55,000
family dwellings.

3721
03:09:55,000 --> 03:09:59,000
They are a creature of their own making.

3722
03:09:59,000 --> 03:10:04,000
And each bedroom costs $650, $700, minimal.

3723
03:10:04,000 --> 03:10:07,000
For those is a whole lot of money.

3724
03:10:07,000 --> 03:10:10,000
But we built new apartments down around the rail station,

3725
03:10:10,000 --> 03:10:13,000
which are not SROs.

3726
03:10:13,000 --> 03:10:14,000
I don't particularly like the way they look.

3727
03:10:14,000 --> 03:10:15,000
They look like Denver.

3728
03:10:15,000 --> 03:10:21,260
But they gave other people, other than students, places to

3729
03:10:21,260 --> 03:10:22,000
live in Denton.

3730
03:10:22,000 --> 03:10:24,000
I love this neighborhood up there.

3731
03:10:24,000 --> 03:10:27,000
I used to sit out around Flo before they tore all the trees

3732
03:10:27,000 --> 03:10:28,000
and everything down.

3733
03:10:28,000 --> 03:10:30,000
Worked on the psych units up there.

3734
03:10:30,000 --> 03:10:32,000
And that was part of the thing.

3735
03:10:32,000 --> 03:10:34,760
You could, from the third floor psych unit, you could see

3736
03:10:34,760 --> 03:10:36,000
the whole downtown.

3737
03:10:36,000 --> 03:10:38,000
Unfortunately, there was a 10-story building there.

3738
03:10:38,000 --> 03:10:43,840
If they put a really tall building there, you will be able

3739
03:10:43,840 --> 03:10:46,000
to see it from 35.

3740
03:10:46,000 --> 03:10:49,000
Because it is on top of that hill.

3741
03:10:49,000 --> 03:10:52,100
So you're sitting something on top of the hill that's going

3742
03:10:52,100 --> 03:10:53,000
to cover a lot of ground.

3743
03:10:53,000 --> 03:10:55,000
You've got drainage issues.

3744
03:10:55,000 --> 03:10:57,000
You've got how you're going to pump water to it.

3745
03:10:57,000 --> 03:11:01,000
Very carefully consider what you're doing.

3746
03:11:01,000 --> 03:11:02,000
Thank you very much.

3747
03:11:02,000 --> 03:11:08,000
Again, this is a public hearing.

3748
03:11:08,000 --> 03:11:15,760
Anyone who would like to speak on this item tonight, please

3749
03:11:15,760 --> 03:11:18,000
come forward.

3750
03:11:18,000 --> 03:11:19,000
Hello. Brian Morrison.

3751
03:11:19,000 --> 03:11:21,000
I'm at 305 Mounts Avenue.

3752
03:11:21,000 --> 03:11:24,000
That's in the Oak History Historic District.

3753
03:11:24,000 --> 03:11:27,000
I was going to make a lot of other comments tonight.

3754
03:11:27,000 --> 03:11:30,420
But in light of what she had just said, I think a

3755
03:11:30,420 --> 03:11:34,000
compromise would be something that fits the area,

3756
03:11:34,000 --> 03:11:38,780
fits the lot as far as size, density, traffic, parking, all

3757
03:11:38,780 --> 03:11:40,000
those things.

3758
03:11:40,000 --> 03:11:43,000
We're already feeling the overflow.

3759
03:11:43,000 --> 03:11:46,000
And I'm a good distance from UNT.

3760
03:11:46,000 --> 03:11:49,319
We're already feeling the overflow from Denton's parking

3761
03:11:49,319 --> 03:11:50,000
issues.

3762
03:11:50,000 --> 03:11:52,819
They keep taking away parking lots and building parking gar

3763
03:11:52,819 --> 03:11:56,000
ages that the students can't afford to park in.

3764
03:11:56,000 --> 03:11:59,020
And so they're all flowing out into the neighborhoods and

3765
03:11:59,020 --> 03:12:00,000
on the streets.

3766
03:12:00,000 --> 03:12:03,219
In the streets around me, they're just lined up bumper to

3767
03:12:03,219 --> 03:12:05,000
bumper every day, all day.

3768
03:12:05,000 --> 03:12:07,780
So getting in and out of the neighborhood is very difficult

3769
03:12:07,780 --> 03:12:08,000
.

3770
03:12:08,000 --> 03:12:12,159
So as far as compromise goes for this property and those in

3771
03:12:12,159 --> 03:12:15,000
the area, I think what goes in --

3772
03:12:15,000 --> 03:12:18,000
I know it's going to be redeveloped, but what goes in

3773
03:12:18,000 --> 03:12:23,000
should definitely fit the area of the site as far as size,

3774
03:12:23,000 --> 03:12:23,000
density,

3775
03:12:23,000 --> 03:12:27,600
and of course, the appearance, the compatibility with the

3776
03:12:27,600 --> 03:12:29,000
historic area.

3777
03:12:29,000 --> 03:12:38,000
Okay. Thank you.

3778
03:12:38,000 --> 03:12:39,000
Again, this is a public hearing.

3779
03:12:39,000 --> 03:12:46,280
Anyone else who would like to speak on this item tonight at

3780
03:12:46,280 --> 03:12:48,000
this time?

3781
03:12:48,000 --> 03:12:52,000
Seeing none, we are not closing the public hearing.

3782
03:12:52,000 --> 03:12:55,000
Since we are continuing it.

3783
03:12:55,000 --> 03:13:00,000
I'm glad you did that so I could learn from you.

3784
03:13:00,000 --> 03:13:06,500
So with that, again, this item has been continued to March

3785
03:13:06,500 --> 03:13:08,000
the 8th.

3786
03:13:08,000 --> 03:13:10,000
So please, everyone, come back.

3787
03:13:10,000 --> 03:13:13,059
You'll have an opportunity to speak again to hopefully the

3788
03:13:13,059 --> 03:13:14,000
full commission.

3789
03:13:14,000 --> 03:13:17,760
And thank you all for coming this evening and appreciate

3790
03:13:17,760 --> 03:13:19,000
your comments.

3791
03:13:19,000 --> 03:13:22,000
I'm sorry.

3792
03:13:22,000 --> 03:13:24,000
Before we move on, commissioner Beck.

3793
03:13:24,000 --> 03:13:25,000
Thank you, chair.

3794
03:13:25,000 --> 03:13:27,100
And I appreciate everyone of you all coming out and

3795
03:13:27,100 --> 03:13:28,000
speaking to this.

3796
03:13:28,000 --> 03:13:30,200
I know it's been tough on you over the months and

3797
03:13:30,200 --> 03:13:31,000
everything.

3798
03:13:31,000 --> 03:13:32,000
We appreciate it.

3799
03:13:32,000 --> 03:13:35,000
I would just like to make one comment.

3800
03:13:35,000 --> 03:13:38,000
I suspect Mr. Allison got an earful tonight.

3801
03:13:38,000 --> 03:13:41,000
And I'm sure he'll take them into consideration.

3802
03:13:41,000 --> 03:13:43,000
And I hope you do address them.

3803
03:13:43,000 --> 03:13:45,000
I would like you to consider one thing, too.

3804
03:13:45,000 --> 03:13:48,000
It's kind of troubled me, Lee.

3805
03:13:48,000 --> 03:13:53,000
It's just it's been frustrating to see any developer come

3806
03:13:53,000 --> 03:13:55,000
in to the north side of UNT campus

3807
03:13:55,000 --> 03:13:59,000
and want to build these tall high-rise buildings.

3808
03:13:59,000 --> 03:14:02,000
There are so many areas around the campus we do it.

3809
03:14:02,000 --> 03:14:05,000
And I wouldn't have a problem anywhere else approving this.

3810
03:14:05,000 --> 03:14:06,000
I like the design.

3811
03:14:06,000 --> 03:14:08,000
I like a lot of what you do.

3812
03:14:08,000 --> 03:14:10,000
We need this kind of density.

3813
03:14:10,000 --> 03:14:14,000
But some areas are just off limits, in my opinion.

3814
03:14:14,000 --> 03:14:15,000
And this is one of them.

3815
03:14:15,000 --> 03:14:20,000
I would just wish that you would take your great product

3816
03:14:20,000 --> 03:14:23,000
and find another location around the campus for it.

3817
03:14:23,000 --> 03:14:25,000
So just consider that if you would.

3818
03:14:25,000 --> 03:14:28,000
Thank you.

3819
03:14:28,000 --> 03:14:30,000
Again, thank you all for coming out this evening.

3820
03:14:30,000 --> 03:14:35,000
I hope to see you all back in a couple of weeks.

3821
03:14:35,000 --> 03:14:39,879
Moving on on our agenda, both items D and E as we announced

3822
03:14:39,879 --> 03:14:44,000
at the beginning of our meeting,

3823
03:14:44,000 --> 03:14:47,000
both of those items have been withdrawn.

3824
03:14:47,000 --> 03:14:52,329
And so that will move us this evening to our item number

3825
03:14:52,329 --> 03:14:53,000
five,

3826
03:14:53,000 --> 03:14:58,899
which is going to be our project matrix and concluding

3827
03:14:58,899 --> 03:15:00,000
items.

3828
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:02,000
Commissioner Ellis.

3829
03:15:02,000 --> 03:15:03,000
Thank you, Chair.

3830
03:15:03,000 --> 03:15:06,190
First, I want to say thank you, staff, for doing the zoning

3831
03:15:06,190 --> 03:15:08,000
comparison chart so quick.

3832
03:15:08,000 --> 03:15:11,000
I noticed that was all included in our backup stuff.

3833
03:15:11,000 --> 03:15:12,000
And it's so helpful.

3834
03:15:12,000 --> 03:15:14,000
So thank you.

3835
03:15:14,000 --> 03:15:15,000
Thank you on that.

3836
03:15:15,000 --> 03:15:18,149
Next, could I request, if possible, can we get some of

3837
03:15:18,149 --> 03:15:22,000
these comments before the start of the work session?

3838
03:15:22,000 --> 03:15:26,000
Is that possible at all?

3839
03:15:26,000 --> 03:15:29,000
Commissioner Ellis, which comments are you referring to?

3840
03:15:29,000 --> 03:15:30,000
I'm sorry.

3841
03:15:30,000 --> 03:15:31,000
I should have clarified.

3842
03:15:31,000 --> 03:15:34,059
When we have public hearings and we have so many comments

3843
03:15:34,059 --> 03:15:35,000
as we did today,

3844
03:15:35,000 --> 03:15:37,959
it's difficult to go through them in detail when we get

3845
03:15:37,959 --> 03:15:40,000
them at the start of work session.

3846
03:15:40,000 --> 03:15:43,510
I don't know if that can be -- I don't know when they come

3847
03:15:43,510 --> 03:15:44,000
to you,

3848
03:15:44,000 --> 03:15:47,000
so I don't know if this can be remedied.

3849
03:15:47,000 --> 03:15:49,000
I think it can.

3850
03:15:49,000 --> 03:15:52,000
And I also think it cannot, so bear with me.

3851
03:15:52,000 --> 03:15:57,000
In instances where we do receive a number of comments,

3852
03:15:57,000 --> 03:15:59,290
we try and amass them together at the same time and make

3853
03:15:59,290 --> 03:16:01,000
sure that they're presented at the meeting.

3854
03:16:01,000 --> 03:16:07,100
But in instances where these came in, they flowed in, it

3855
03:16:07,100 --> 03:16:09,000
wasn't amass mailing that came in to us.

3856
03:16:09,000 --> 03:16:12,000
But in instances where we receive a few bulk,

3857
03:16:12,000 --> 03:16:14,819
we'll make sure that we provide whatever we can via email

3858
03:16:14,819 --> 03:16:17,000
to the Planning and Zoning Commission.

3859
03:16:17,000 --> 03:16:18,000
Okay, thanks.

3860
03:16:18,000 --> 03:16:21,440
But it would be at the time of posting of the agenda as

3861
03:16:21,440 --> 03:16:22,000
well.

3862
03:16:22,000 --> 03:16:24,000
Right, and I guess that's what I mean.

3863
03:16:24,000 --> 03:16:27,309
If we do have a stack at that point, maybe they could be

3864
03:16:27,309 --> 03:16:29,000
included, and that's at least a head start.

3865
03:16:29,000 --> 03:16:32,000
We'll make an effort to try and get that to you.

3866
03:16:32,000 --> 03:16:38,000
Thank you.

3867
03:16:38,000 --> 03:16:42,000
Anyone else?

3868
03:16:42,000 --> 03:16:45,000
No?

3869
03:16:45,000 --> 03:16:49,000
Okay, at 9.08, I'm going to close our meeting this evening.

3870
03:16:49,000 --> 03:16:51,000
Thank you, everyone.