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This evening time is 432 and this meeting has been duly

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posted and we do

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have a quorum present and I'm going to call our meeting to

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order and I will

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turn it over to Shandra for clarification of agenda items.

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Thank you

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chair. Tonight we have several well two items on the

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consent agenda,

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two items for individual consideration and then eight items

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under public hearing.

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Before we start I'd like to see if there's any discussion

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on the minutes

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from the October 26th meeting. Okay and so with that I'll

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invite Julie Wyatt up

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for the presentation on the preliminary, I'm sorry, prelim

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plat for the service

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King edition. And just for the record this is for

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clarification purposes so

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she will be going over it if there's a question. It is a

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preliminary plat for a

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commercial development it's adjacent to I-35 and I'll

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answer it's two lots and

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I'll answer any questions you have. I had a question and it

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may just be for my

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learning curve. Why are there drainage easements and water

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easements inside and

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shown on the right away? I thought when we have a right

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away that easements and

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things typically aren't shown inside there. There were a

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lot of existing

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easements that that affected this lot and those may be the

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haven't been

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removed yet. Well or that that affect the lot and Earl did

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you have any that

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you'd like to add?

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It's got I think a 70 foot right away on it and then the

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drainage easement kind

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to the west goes through it and I thought there was also a

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20 foot water

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line easement that's inside the right away. A lot of the

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easements were

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previously within the property but then textile went in and

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acquired a bunch of

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right away needed for the widening and those easements just

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happened to end up

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being in the new right away line. Okay so that just haven't

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been removed. But the right

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away will supersede the easement within the portion that's.

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Well that was kind of

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my question normally when we have right away we don't

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usually have easements. No

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we typically don't. I was just curious as to why this one

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had some easements in it

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and were inside the right away and so what you're saying

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the easements

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pre-existed the right away and they just haven't had the

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easements removed and

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they're just showing up on the plat search. Or the eas

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ements removed that are

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within the right away. Right. But typically you don't need

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to because the

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right away encompasses the easement. Okay that was my only

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question on that. Thank you.

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Okay thank you Julie and actually you're up next. This is

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for the Ranch View

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Specialty Hospital. This is our final plan. This is the

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last step that y'all

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will see for the Ranch View Specialty Hospital. I know you

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've seen this this

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project several times. It is a commercial development. It's

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for medical

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offices adjacent to I-35W and Crawford Road and you've seen

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the preliminary

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plat and this is in conformance with that preliminary plat

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and I'll answer

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any questions I can. Any questions? All right. Thank you

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Julie. And then Julie you

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might as well stay. The next item is the PDA Plan

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Development Amendment for Ropes

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and Ranch. All right good evening I'm Julie Wyatt, Senior

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Planner with the City

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of Denton. I know you've seen this one before. We'll go

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over some of the things

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to refresh your memory from the October 12th meeting but

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this is a request to

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consider making a recommendation to City Council regarding

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a detailed plan

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amendment for ropes and ranch in order to blend the

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residential uses within the

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land use plan. This is something you saw on October 12th

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and it was continued to

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today. The subject property is located on Crawford Road 35W

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is actually in this

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area so it's in the southwest part of town. A little

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background of PDs within

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the City of Denton. There are two part processes within the

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1991 code. They're

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actually not permitted within the 2002 code but we do have

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some PDs left over

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from prior to the 2002 code adoption. So any PDs that

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remain from previously

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follow that 1991 code and that code required two steps.

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First the concept

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plan which was the general guidelines including the uses.

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For ropes and ranch

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it was approved in 1999 and that concept plan emphasized

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flexibility

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and variety of housing options. And embedded within that

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were residential

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uses and there were five. Single-family luxury, single-

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family premier, single-

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family casita. All of those were single-family detached

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homes. Single-family

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villa was single-family attached so a duplex and then there

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was the multi-family

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component which also allowed development for elderly

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housing or that sort of use.

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Nursing homes that sort of thing. So those were the

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residential uses permitted

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within that concept plan. There have been several detailed

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plans that have been

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approved throughout the years. The most recent one being

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2011 and what that did

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is it depicted the precise locations of those individual

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residential land use

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categories and that included 63 of those single-family vill

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as or SFVs or duplexes.

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So and those were clustered along an arterial. And this is

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what that looks

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like. So you have all of the arrows point to the

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traditional lots which would be

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the casitas. The premier lots are the gray. The the

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preserved lots which are

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the the largest lots that they have are in the blue. There

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's one little section

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and then here are those duplex lots. Those were along the

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arterial there. So

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that was the 2011 plan. This is the proposed land use plan

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that you saw on

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October 12th. It it reallocated all those residential uses

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and combined them into

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one residential overarching use where any of those

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residential uses except for

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multi-family to could be located anywhere in that yellow.

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And that proposal

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included some text that include that said the SFL, SFP, SFC

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and SFV land uses

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would be permitted in anywhere within the R. That it

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permitted a maximum of

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1,200 of those SFV units and that the multi-family to MF2

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would only be

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permitted if it was depicted in this land use plan which it

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wasn't or as part

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of a detailed plan amendment. So any multi-family they

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would have to come

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back before you and City Council in order to get approval

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for that. So

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throughout the discussion on October 12th there were some

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current concerns that

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were raised regarding those villas those duplexes and by

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both this commission as

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well as the neighbors and some revisions that were proposed

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by P&Z included the

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reduction a reduction in the number from 1,200 to 600 which

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would be a total of

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300 structures. A requirement that those uses be clustered,

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buffer or transition

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requirements between those duplex uses and the single-

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family detach uses. A

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prohibition against the front facades of duplexes and

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single-family homes facing

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each other and then possibly providing general locations

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for those for those

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SFV villas duplex uses. So the applicant went back and made

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some revisions and

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what they resubmitted to us was to retain that overarching

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R

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residential use in this area which would permit the SFL,

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the SFP, the SFC and the

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SFV within all areas shown in yellow to also retain that

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maximum 1,200 units

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once again permit the provisions regarding multifamily but

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then remove

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all of the areas outlined in blue from the request so those

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would fall back to

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previous detail plans in terms of development and what

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which which housing

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goes where. So that was their that was their revision we

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asked them if they

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wanted. Commissioner Rossell. Yes sir. Thank you. Sorry for

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the interruption. Do you know of the

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the build out of what's the outline in blue is that

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currently fully built out

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or is there land still in that blue outline that has not

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been developed? It's

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everything that's been platted, final platted up till now.

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So yes some of it is

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built out some of it for instance this 10.1 10.2 these

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these plots are fairly

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recent so they're they're working through those and then

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and then this

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right here that's a fairly recent plat as well. So thank

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you.

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Commissioner Sullivan. I've gotten some questions about

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this. There are a few lots in here that are outside the

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blue line that are in fact already developed.

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And so I don't know if it was just an oversight on their

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part or if they were using an older map to begin with that

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would indicate that maybe it's not built out there.

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For example if I can approach the map here. Sure. These

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three specifically these three lots here are already built.

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These three lots right here?

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They're already in existence. And so that's one thing that

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's just sort of an oversight.

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Okay. Those three people are upset. And so the other issue

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is that the things that in yellow that above the blue line

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that while they are not currently developed that when the

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people bought that's along the inside of the blue line were

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told specific types of housing is going to go in there.

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And under this under this plan of ours a lot better than

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the last one. It's still getting leeway to where possibly

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the people who bought then are not going to have what they

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were told later.

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I don't know how hard and fast this blue line is or what

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the assurances are that Robeson is going to issue to the

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homeowners saying told you this that will continue.

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Well and we did we did approach Robeson about adding more

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of those elements that y'all suggested in the last meeting

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in into this and they declined to do so. But they will be

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here tonight and that may be something that we want that

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you might want to discuss about about pushing that that

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boundary line a little further in order to give more

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certainty to those property owners that are that are

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adjacent to that blue line.

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Commissioner Ellis. Thank you chair. So Julie as I

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understand that the only change from what we saw previously

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October 12th is that they're just not including anything

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that's already plotted. Other than that everything's the

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same.

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Yes ma'am. Okay. Thank you. All right. So the

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considerations that we looked at when we when we analyze

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this we really went back to that 1991 code and and I know

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we've discussed this before that 91 code does have criteria

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for approval that we look at.

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We have to analyze the request against first does it apply

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with the general concept plan. This does that general

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concept plan did embed within it that idea of flexibility

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and a variety of housing types.

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Does it provide a compatible arrangement with buildings and

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land uses that would not adversely affect the adjoining

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neighborhoods or properties outside the plan.

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We looked at that and we don't we don't see that there is

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going to be an impact to the properties adjoining the

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development that's an that is undeveloped property and we

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don't perceive an impact there.

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But it is difficult to ascertain what the impact is of the

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of the additional duplexes within the development.

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It provides for adequate and safe circulation of vehicular

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traffic because this request doesn't actually increase the

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total number of dwelling units. It merely reallocates those

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land use categories.

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So the the duplex is the villas. If those increase within

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the ropes and ranch development then a different than

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another residential housing type would decrease increase

265
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:27,639
decrease.

266
00:13:27,639 --> 00:13:31,289
So it would it would balance out and maintain that that 60

267
00:13:31,289 --> 00:13:35,200
37 dwelling units and is it in substantial compliance with

268
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,740
the landscape science subdivision and other regulations of

269
00:13:38,740 --> 00:13:39,639
the city.

270
00:13:39,639 --> 00:13:43,639
Yes it is.

271
00:13:43,639 --> 00:13:46,940
And while planning does not have an objection to the

272
00:13:46,940 --> 00:13:50,320
request in light of the discussions that we had here on

273
00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:54,330
October 12th as well as feedback that we have received from

274
00:13:54,330 --> 00:13:55,639
the neighborhood.

275
00:13:55,639 --> 00:14:00,669
The additional conditions that were suggested by this by

276
00:14:00,669 --> 00:14:07,440
this board are are appropriate would be appropriate in this

277
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:08,639
instance.

278
00:14:08,639 --> 00:14:11,509
A public notification was sent out here. Here are my totals

279
00:14:11,509 --> 00:14:18,720
. We've received 31 in opposition 44 in favor and then 19 in

280
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:19,639
neutral.

281
00:14:19,639 --> 00:14:26,639
Staff recommend's approval of the request. Sorry.

282
00:14:26,639 --> 00:14:31,720
No sir no sir. It was just that one public notification. I

283
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,879
did continue to receive feedback and phone calls and emails

284
00:14:35,879 --> 00:14:46,639
but no additional public or mailing was then.

285
00:14:46,639 --> 00:14:51,129
Well yes and it would but it is still a part of the total

286
00:14:51,129 --> 00:14:55,889
development. So it is part because those houses are a part

287
00:14:55,889 --> 00:15:00,049
of the PD and that whole PD is being amended that it would

288
00:15:00,049 --> 00:15:03,639
still you know we're still looking at them.

289
00:15:16,639 --> 00:15:31,639
Sure sure.

290
00:15:31,639 --> 00:15:38,639
Sure sure yes.

291
00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:45,279
The request was continued so that's why there wasn't a re

292
00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:47,809
notice. So thank you. We did. Yes go ahead. Sorry

293
00:15:47,809 --> 00:15:53,559
Commissioner Hesbeth. Thank you chair. So I guess can we

294
00:15:53,559 --> 00:15:58,639
just to talk amongst ourselves so I can understand.

295
00:15:58,639 --> 00:16:04,279
I'm curious. I need some guidance as to where to weigh

296
00:16:04,279 --> 00:16:08,039
decisions. If I look at the blue line it looks like they

297
00:16:08,039 --> 00:16:11,799
tried to follow the golf course and even the three houses

298
00:16:11,799 --> 00:16:15,129
that Commissioner Sullivan pointed out it's in their

299
00:16:15,129 --> 00:16:15,639
backyard.

300
00:16:15,639 --> 00:16:26,889
So we've set out a prerequisite before saying hey we don't

301
00:16:26,889 --> 00:16:33,000
want to face in each other. So it looks like they've drawn

302
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:33,720
the line such that it's it meets the previous request. So I

303
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:34,389
'm just curious if we're how we're going to or how to weigh

304
00:16:34,389 --> 00:16:36,639
decisions right it's like it's obvious.

305
00:16:36,639 --> 00:16:43,110
It's a need. It's obvious that it's well supported in the

306
00:16:43,110 --> 00:16:46,769
entire community. And so those dissenting how do you weigh

307
00:16:46,769 --> 00:16:48,440
that do you weigh it. I mean because I don't think there's

308
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:49,639
ever a perfect place for blue line.

309
00:16:49,639 --> 00:16:53,389
You know and so that's as we go through the presentation

310
00:16:53,389 --> 00:16:57,220
that's what I'm weighing that's what I'm I'm going to

311
00:16:57,220 --> 00:17:00,659
struggle with it's it looks like the prerequisites

312
00:17:00,659 --> 00:17:04,509
generally have been you know factored in and it looks like

313
00:17:04,509 --> 00:17:08,160
they tried to follow the golf course to give you that

314
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,789
buffer between the two and the others in the backyard so it

315
00:17:11,789 --> 00:17:15,640
's not facing one of the other houses.

316
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:20,640
So that just says we go forward I'll be listening to see

317
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:26,009
how to weigh dissenting opinions and process that. I think

318
00:17:26,009 --> 00:17:28,640
I'll try to answer that question.

319
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:36,829
So once we are amending the full PD, the notification goes

320
00:17:36,829 --> 00:17:44,230
out to the property owner that we originally sent the

321
00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:50,640
notice to. And so the 20% should it. Should we fall into,

322
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:50,640
should we get to that point where there's 20% opposition,

323
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:50,640
that total will be counted based on that that original

324
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:50,640
boundary.

325
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:56,640
Unless somebody has a different interpretation.

326
00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,279
And right now because it is such a large development, even

327
00:18:00,279 --> 00:18:03,640
though we've we received quite a few letters back.

328
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,960
The percentages of opposition or even in favor neutral or

329
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,640
are fairly low just because it's such a large development.

330
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:18,640
So I'll answer any questions I can.

331
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,309
Commissioner Ellis. Thank you, Chair so Julie these

332
00:18:21,309 --> 00:18:24,250
responses that we have are the same ones we got on October

333
00:18:24,250 --> 00:18:25,640
12 is that right.

334
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,210
Some are new. Okay, and I mixed them all up. Okay, so I

335
00:18:29,210 --> 00:18:31,599
have no idea what your name is so I'm sorry I apologize I

336
00:18:31,599 --> 00:18:34,000
killed a few trees on that one so I want to make sure you

337
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,640
had all the available information in front of you.

338
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,640
Thanks.

339
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:56,740
All right. Thank you. There's a few more questions. I was

340
00:18:56,740 --> 00:18:56,890
going to call on Commissioner Sullivan since you live in Ro

341
00:18:56,890 --> 00:18:57,039
bson Ranch. Can you share just kind of what the feeling from

342
00:18:57,039 --> 00:18:57,180
Robson Ranch what you've been told about their feelings

343
00:18:57,180 --> 00:18:57,640
about the changes that are being proposed.

344
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:03,880
Whether it was a town hall meeting that I attended in Robs

345
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:04,640
on.

346
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,630
I used to love double speaker people would ask specific

347
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:12,869
question regarding what about what's going to be behind my

348
00:19:12,869 --> 00:19:16,410
house, and they say well you know it's going to be

349
00:19:16,410 --> 00:19:17,640
residents.

350
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:27,009
What does that mean that a duplex or single family or what

351
00:19:27,009 --> 00:19:35,640
have you. So people were concerned about that. That, again,

352
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:35,640
people that I've talked with you got emails from are

353
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:35,640
concerned that, again, the people that are on that blue

354
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:35,640
line.

355
00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:42,000
While their house may back up to the blue line and so

356
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:48,640
therefore the front house don't face each other.

357
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:56,640
Make sure your mic is on I think.

358
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,640
It's greener now greener.

359
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:07,640
Those guys will be happy.

360
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:12,329
So that the people that whose backyard backs up to the

361
00:20:12,329 --> 00:20:17,000
backyard of the villa. It's two different lifestyles that

362
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,640
the the villa people tend to live on the patios more.

363
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:25,920
And so it's you know very close proximity and it's just not

364
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,640
in their thought not very conducive.

365
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,240
So that's, it's a concern for those who are closer to the

366
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,789
area impact area than it is to those who are further away

367
00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:40,640
from it because their areas are fairly well built out.

368
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,460
And the concern they had was that if there's an empty lot

369
00:20:44,460 --> 00:20:48,450
in the middle of street according to the old map they could

370
00:20:48,450 --> 00:20:50,640
have put a duplex in there.

371
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,349
And so that was their concern that they didn't want you

372
00:20:54,349 --> 00:20:57,640
know the infill areas to be used as duplexes.

373
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,519
So they've taken you know they've taken that off the board

374
00:21:00,519 --> 00:21:01,640
which is positive.

375
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:05,740
But it's still it's the the backyard issue and the fact

376
00:21:05,740 --> 00:21:09,950
that people have in fact I just got an email when I pulled

377
00:21:09,950 --> 00:21:13,450
in this evening that said to that you know we were told

378
00:21:13,450 --> 00:21:16,640
that a premier houses were going to be built behind us.

379
00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,609
Well that's not what's you know what's being shown now and

380
00:21:20,609 --> 00:21:22,640
so that's their concern.

381
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,819
So they would like more assurance from Robson or somebody

382
00:21:26,819 --> 00:21:30,730
to say what we told you when you bought is still going to

383
00:21:30,730 --> 00:21:31,640
happen.

384
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,589
You know that's not going to affect anything it's just for

385
00:21:34,589 --> 00:21:37,490
the stuff that's on further north where these things are

386
00:21:37,490 --> 00:21:38,640
going to happen.

387
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,490
So that's that's sort of the give and take that's going on

388
00:21:42,490 --> 00:21:44,640
in the in the area out there.

389
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:45,640
Okay.

390
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:46,640
Thank you for that.

391
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:47,640
Commissioner Ellis.

392
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:48,640
Thank you, Chair.

393
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,650
Commissioner Sullivan just to ask there was discussion on

394
00:21:51,650 --> 00:21:54,849
October 12 that the developer come back and talk with the

395
00:21:54,849 --> 00:21:55,640
residents.

396
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:56,640
Did that happen?

397
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,339
Are you saying that meeting happened in between the

398
00:21:59,339 --> 00:22:03,460
continuation or is that the first one after the last time

399
00:22:03,460 --> 00:22:04,640
they were here.

400
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,569
In fact it was probably a month and a half ago that they

401
00:22:07,569 --> 00:22:10,869
came back and had another town hall meeting and that's that

402
00:22:10,869 --> 00:22:12,640
's the one that I attended.

403
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:17,349
And again it was the concerns were what's going to happen

404
00:22:17,349 --> 00:22:19,640
to the houses behind me.

405
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,210
That's where that really was the biggest voice and that's

406
00:22:23,210 --> 00:22:27,220
where Robson didn't really I mean the answer the question

407
00:22:27,220 --> 00:22:31,630
technically but not specifically because a multifamily

408
00:22:31,630 --> 00:22:36,569
villa is a residence just like a single family home is a

409
00:22:36,569 --> 00:22:37,640
residence.

410
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:42,700
And so that's where they were kind of dancing around the

411
00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:43,640
issue.

412
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:44,640
Sure.

413
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,900
That was let me just say that was one thing I was going to

414
00:22:47,900 --> 00:22:50,980
ask staff about and we didn't talk about in today's

415
00:22:50,980 --> 00:22:54,630
presentation but my recollection from last time was that on

416
00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:56,640
the casitas the duplexes.

417
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,359
They actually count as one unit it's not two separate units

418
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:00,640
.

419
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:01,640
Is that correct?

420
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,759
No it's two separate dwelling units because each the way

421
00:23:05,759 --> 00:23:10,170
the development code defines the dwelling unit is a kitchen

422
00:23:10,170 --> 00:23:14,640
basically and so there would be each would be two separate.

423
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,210
Each structure would be two separate dwelling units so it

424
00:23:18,210 --> 00:23:22,390
would be so they're they're proposing or requesting 1200 du

425
00:23:22,390 --> 00:23:25,640
plexes, but it would be 600 structures.

426
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:26,640
Okay.

427
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,349
So I misunderstood about there's two structures being

428
00:23:30,349 --> 00:23:31,640
counted as one.

429
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,960
Well, let me rephrase the duplex two families and wasn't

430
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:40,640
residents count says two residential structures rather than

431
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,640
one to residential dwelling units.

432
00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:44,640
Yes, sir.

433
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,230
Okay, I was misunderstood it was mistaken on my

434
00:23:47,230 --> 00:23:49,640
understanding so they're two separate.

435
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,640
It's been a little confusing so I'm with you.

436
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,640
Thank you for the clarification.

437
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:56,640
Mr. Husband.

438
00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:03,740
Yeah, I just, I do get hung up on our previous meeting we

439
00:24:03,740 --> 00:24:06,640
outlined some, some bullets.

440
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,220
Those bullets get hit, and then it's, oh by the way, and I

441
00:24:11,220 --> 00:24:14,640
do in practice, I don't.

442
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,450
I struggle with making the connection that that's a bad

443
00:24:18,450 --> 00:24:22,220
thing right, because my understanding just as it was

444
00:24:22,220 --> 00:24:25,640
understood as it was laid out these are homes.

445
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,730
I mean the townhomes whatever there are the people leave,

446
00:24:28,730 --> 00:24:31,849
and they come back and they kind of vacillate a bit. I don

447
00:24:31,849 --> 00:24:33,640
't understand what's bad about that.

448
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,220
You know, if my neighbors would leave all the time that'd

449
00:24:37,220 --> 00:24:39,769
be great, you know, you know, what am I looking at the

450
00:24:39,769 --> 00:24:41,880
backup, you know that that type of thing so I don't, I don

451
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:43,640
't see that as a negative and I don't see.

452
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,500
I just don't think it's right to keep moving the goal line,

453
00:24:47,500 --> 00:24:50,890
you know, it's like hey well, here's these four prerequis

454
00:24:50,890 --> 00:24:53,220
ites we really like to see you come back with those four

455
00:24:53,220 --> 00:24:56,640
prerequisites and now I'm worried about my backyard.

456
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,299
Before it was hate I don't want to face it. Now it's I don

457
00:24:59,299 --> 00:25:02,509
't want it in back of me. And we're another four months out

458
00:25:02,509 --> 00:25:05,640
and we already know that it's in need.

459
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,740
And so I just, I just think it's a dangerous precedent to

460
00:25:09,740 --> 00:25:13,710
to ask someone to meet we specifically laid out these,

461
00:25:13,710 --> 00:25:17,640
these points we specifically set a date certain.

462
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:22,230
And so, is it perfect? Absolutely not. But I think short

463
00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:24,640
comings would fall on.

464
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,890
I'd almost put it on me for not asking a better question

465
00:25:28,890 --> 00:25:33,339
than on them for doing what we in spirit, ask them to do is

466
00:25:33,339 --> 00:25:35,640
it again is it perfect no.

467
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:41,269
But I need someone I'd need to hear a reason why someone

468
00:25:41,269 --> 00:25:45,640
that's gone half the year is in my backyard is a bad thing.

469
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,640
I mean, so I don't I don't understand that to be bad.

470
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,839
If I could just a second, I want to, I got a clarification

471
00:25:50,839 --> 00:25:54,089
from legal that we're getting a little outside the bounds

472
00:25:54,089 --> 00:25:57,640
of our work session of getting information presented to us

473
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,799
and having a lot of discussion and the recommendation is if

474
00:26:00,799 --> 00:26:02,960
we're going to get into quite a bit discussion I would

475
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,640
rather us have it there in our public session with citizens

476
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,160
there that can hear rather than we do it all here and just

477
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:13,640
make a motion to vote in there that we've discussed it so

478
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,640
unless there's another question specifically for staff.

479
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,210
I'm going to say that this item has been presented and we

480
00:26:20,210 --> 00:26:23,500
'll move to our next one unless there's a particular

481
00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:27,640
question for staff that we want to follow up on.

482
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:32,109
Sure. Commissioner was oh, thank you chair. Julian and in

483
00:26:32,109 --> 00:26:36,640
your discussions with the applicant.

484
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,640
Commissioner Sullivan brought up the point about these

485
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,869
three houses. And it does seem like maybe low hanging fruit

486
00:26:42,869 --> 00:26:46,009
of those exist. I'm not saying we start blurring that blue

487
00:26:46,009 --> 00:26:46,640
line.

488
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,210
Because I agree with Commissioner has but it seems like a

489
00:26:50,210 --> 00:26:52,849
natural kind of break. But those three houses are built. Do

490
00:26:52,849 --> 00:26:56,630
you feel the applicant would be a minimal to moving that

491
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:57,640
line back.

492
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,630
They like hard because it seems like they declined some of

493
00:27:00,630 --> 00:27:03,579
our requests. And I guess I asked the applicant I'm just

494
00:27:03,579 --> 00:27:06,640
curious about if they would move it three houses back.

495
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,880
I can absolutely approach them prior to the regular meeting

496
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,640
and see if that's something that they could do.

497
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,640
I'm just curious if that's like a deal breaker for them.

498
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,339
Thank you. Commissioner else. Thank you chair. On that same

499
00:27:20,339 --> 00:27:23,660
note, is that a hard line or you said everything that's

500
00:27:23,660 --> 00:27:24,640
already been plotted.

501
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,390
So if those three homes are there, they're plotted. So they

502
00:27:27,390 --> 00:27:31,220
should be not included. Well, and that was just a shorthand

503
00:27:31,220 --> 00:27:34,640
that that I used. This was what they submitted.

504
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:39,109
So this is they didn't they didn't qualify it. They just

505
00:27:39,109 --> 00:27:43,420
submitted a new draw a new map. So so that's a hard line as

506
00:27:43,420 --> 00:27:47,640
far as what they're presenting to us then. Yes. Okay.

507
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,640
Understood. Thank you.

508
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:54,359
I have I guess final question. Help me understand staff's

509
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,910
perspective to approve this when it's so counter to how we

510
00:27:58,910 --> 00:28:03,450
do zoning throughout the rest of our city that you know it

511
00:28:03,450 --> 00:28:07,359
is in our six and that's what goes in it and then our three

512
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:08,640
and you can have in our immune.

513
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,519
We don't have a mix of that in our city. So I'm having a

514
00:28:12,519 --> 00:28:16,609
hard time after maybe I'm just the old guy with long in the

515
00:28:16,609 --> 00:28:20,000
tooth here how we've always done it. I'm having a hard time

516
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:21,640
getting there with this approach. Sure.

517
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:26,549
And I understand and we have those conversations because it

518
00:28:26,549 --> 00:28:31,029
's a PD because that type of mixing of housing was was put

519
00:28:31,029 --> 00:28:35,690
into the PD is as one of the one of the guiding principles,

520
00:28:35,690 --> 00:28:40,640
then that PD does allow for that flexibility and for it to

521
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,640
be a little less

522
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:47,779
hard and fast as we have in the rest of the zoning. So yes,

523
00:28:47,779 --> 00:28:51,509
it doesn't really follow the way we typically look at

524
00:28:51,509 --> 00:28:56,250
things within the broader city, but within this PD because

525
00:28:56,250 --> 00:29:01,890
because it's its own development and it's got its own own

526
00:29:01,890 --> 00:29:05,640
standards and criteria that allows that a little more

527
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,640
flexibility for staff to look at these types of specific

528
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:12,640
requests in a little more detail that way.

529
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,640
Can you push back a little.

530
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,640
I hear that in the flexibility and understand it.

531
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,690
But we don't do that anywhere else in our city that we have

532
00:29:22,690 --> 00:29:25,589
a duplex on one lot and then a single family home next to

533
00:29:25,589 --> 00:29:28,819
it. We've had things come before this commission and had a

534
00:29:28,819 --> 00:29:32,009
lot of spirited discussion about staff saying well this is

535
00:29:32,009 --> 00:29:35,869
existing neighborhood and you know we're going to put a

536
00:29:35,869 --> 00:29:37,640
couple duplexes here on the corner

537
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,210
and that's exactly what this is this is going to be a or

538
00:29:41,210 --> 00:29:45,220
has the capability of being duplex single family all this,

539
00:29:45,220 --> 00:29:49,230
whatever kind of floats and that's just very different than

540
00:29:49,230 --> 00:29:53,279
what we typically do is and I've stood here and argued that

541
00:29:53,279 --> 00:29:57,640
very very thing.

542
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,539
But because it really does come down to the nature of the

543
00:30:01,539 --> 00:30:05,539
PD. And so it is it is different than that that straight

544
00:30:05,539 --> 00:30:09,349
zoning that we have to the rest of the city or, or we're

545
00:30:09,349 --> 00:30:13,430
reviewing it in that that different so I hear you we have,

546
00:30:13,430 --> 00:30:17,640
we have had those spirited discussions here.

547
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:22,670
But, but because of the nature of the PD and Chandler and

548
00:30:22,670 --> 00:30:25,640
all want to add anything to that.

549
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,720
I guess I'm just a little puzzled as to why we're not doing

550
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,539
more of a cluster that you can do it here or do it there

551
00:30:31,539 --> 00:30:34,690
versus you can just do it anywhere, other than it makes it

552
00:30:34,690 --> 00:30:37,859
very easy for the developer to whatever they want to build

553
00:30:37,859 --> 00:30:40,640
however they want to build to never have to come back and

554
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,079
say, hey, market conditions have changed, we have more

555
00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:46,640
demand here and we would like to just like we do in any

556
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,480
other projects, make a change and come back and talk about

557
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,779
it versus we want a blank check, and we don't ever want to

558
00:30:53,779 --> 00:30:54,640
have to come back and we'll build what we want to build.

559
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,839
It fits this box and if it's gonna be outside the box, we

560
00:30:57,839 --> 00:31:01,430
'll come back but otherwise, we'll never be back before this

561
00:31:01,430 --> 00:31:05,029
commission or city council again. And you know, after our

562
00:31:05,029 --> 00:31:08,250
last discussion we did go back and we talked about it and

563
00:31:08,250 --> 00:31:11,809
when they did submit this, this new map to us, you know I,

564
00:31:11,809 --> 00:31:14,329
I contacted them and say but this doesn't address any of

565
00:31:14,329 --> 00:31:17,000
those other concerns that PNC Do you not want to add those

566
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:17,640
in there.

567
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,829
And they declined to do so but we have put in our

568
00:31:21,829 --> 00:31:27,490
recommendation that although we're okay with the request,

569
00:31:27,490 --> 00:31:32,819
we've certainly heard your concerns and we think that any

570
00:31:32,819 --> 00:31:38,220
requirements to provide buffers or transitions between

571
00:31:38,220 --> 00:31:40,640
those two uses could be appropriate.

572
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,839
So, I think I think you're, you're right and that what you

573
00:31:44,839 --> 00:31:48,880
have suggested to us could be appropriate measures that

574
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,819
that y'all could could recommend to to add to this map as

575
00:31:52,819 --> 00:31:53,640
well.

576
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:58,750
Right, and just add more. Hopefully it's more. But with PDs

577
00:31:58,750 --> 00:32:03,220
you also we with PDs we tend to allow greater flexibility

578
00:32:03,220 --> 00:32:07,680
because ideally we get a better product in the end then we

579
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,640
could get with straight zoning.

580
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,450
So typically you get more open space you get connections

581
00:32:14,450 --> 00:32:18,220
you get a better quality product. As far as design

582
00:32:18,220 --> 00:32:22,170
standards, the, the facades of the buildings are typically

583
00:32:22,170 --> 00:32:25,640
more than what we require for the base zoning.

584
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,740
And so that's why there's a little bit of a give and take

585
00:32:29,740 --> 00:32:30,640
with PDs.

586
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,799
But surely, if you sense zoning is discretionary and this

587
00:32:34,799 --> 00:32:38,609
is zoning. Should you see things that you should you

588
00:32:38,609 --> 00:32:42,640
identify things that you would like to see in the PD.

589
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,640
Those can be recommendations that you make as a commission.

590
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,529
This is a carry one one step further. Either

591
00:32:50,529 --> 00:32:54,339
recommendations that we can form consensus on. And if for

592
00:32:54,339 --> 00:32:58,059
some reason, there isn't consensus and this doesn't move

593
00:32:58,059 --> 00:33:01,839
forward at least from a PNC where the recommendation it

594
00:33:01,839 --> 00:33:03,640
does go to city council.

595
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:04,640
Is that correct.

596
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,319
And if it didn't pass here it would take a supermajority at

597
00:33:08,319 --> 00:33:12,019
council then to to to address whatever changes need to be

598
00:33:12,019 --> 00:33:14,640
made. Yes, sir. Okay.

599
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:20,640
Other questions for staff.

600
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:21,640
Buddy.

601
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,640
Okay. Thank you, Julie. Thank you.

602
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:30,640
Okay. The next item is the approving the 2017 calendar.

603
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:35,460
There should be a copy of this in your backup. And if you

604
00:33:35,460 --> 00:33:40,180
will please let us know if any of the dates. You feel we

605
00:33:40,180 --> 00:33:42,640
need to change or if not.

606
00:33:42,640 --> 00:34:01,640
Can you carry this forward.

607
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:07,769
On the calendar the only thing I remember looking at it but

608
00:34:07,769 --> 00:34:13,639
I don't know that I saw spring break on was it missed. That

609
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:13,639
's the only other thing that I saw.

610
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:22,199
It looked like we missed most of the other holidays and

611
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:31,639
things so anybody else have some conflicts on the calendar.

612
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:35,639
Commissioner has but did you have some conflicts or no.

613
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:38,639
Good. Okay.

614
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:55,380
That takes us to our public hearings and I'll invite Haley

615
00:34:55,380 --> 00:35:06,639
's a girl ski up for the Darnell edition.

616
00:35:06,639 --> 00:35:09,639
Okay, so you've seen this one recently as a zoning case.

617
00:35:09,639 --> 00:35:12,719
This is replats to combine three lots into one for the

618
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,300
purpose of developing a pastoral center on McCormick Street

619
00:35:16,300 --> 00:35:16,639
.

620
00:35:16,639 --> 00:35:22,639
So if you have any questions I can address those now.

621
00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:26,860
Now there were some concerns when this was before us about

622
00:35:26,860 --> 00:35:31,170
parking and some of those I don't know if any commissioners

623
00:35:31,170 --> 00:35:35,239
want to address any of that or feel like this is okay as is

624
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,639
or want to come back to me that.

625
00:35:37,639 --> 00:35:38,639
Okay.

626
00:35:38,639 --> 00:35:44,639
Thank you. Thank you.

627
00:35:44,639 --> 00:35:52,219
Next we have Julie Wyatt who's presenting on the Maple Leaf

628
00:35:52,219 --> 00:35:54,639
homes, final reply.

629
00:35:54,639 --> 00:35:55,639
All right.

630
00:35:55,639 --> 00:35:59,650
They're replating the subject property in order to

631
00:35:59,650 --> 00:36:02,639
accommodate a townhome development.

632
00:36:02,639 --> 00:36:05,639
It's all McKinney.

633
00:36:05,639 --> 00:36:15,639
Any questions.

634
00:36:15,639 --> 00:36:18,980
There's not because of the zoning district that it's in it

635
00:36:18,980 --> 00:36:22,010
's in our in you and so it's not a single family zoning

636
00:36:22,010 --> 00:36:25,369
district so there's no mailing notification there still

637
00:36:25,369 --> 00:36:27,639
wasn't a newspaper notification.

638
00:36:27,639 --> 00:36:32,639
Gotcha. Okay.

639
00:36:32,639 --> 00:36:35,639
Any questions for Julie.

640
00:36:35,639 --> 00:36:37,639
Thank you.

641
00:36:37,639 --> 00:36:40,639
If you're back or not. Yeah, I'm just gonna stay here.

642
00:36:40,639 --> 00:36:44,460
Titus edition. Titus edition. All right. Let me rotate this

643
00:36:44,460 --> 00:36:44,639
.

644
00:36:44,639 --> 00:36:46,639
All right.

645
00:36:46,639 --> 00:36:51,639
This is an industrial development on the west side of town.

646
00:36:51,639 --> 00:37:01,090
They're not changing the lot configuration they're merely

647
00:37:01,090 --> 00:37:07,030
moving some utility easements. And I believe there's also a

648
00:37:07,030 --> 00:37:07,920
pipeline easement that's being dedicated with this plot so

649
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:08,639
no additional lots being created.

650
00:37:08,639 --> 00:37:11,639
Any questions.

651
00:37:11,639 --> 00:37:17,639
Thank you Julie and guess you're stay up there.

652
00:37:17,639 --> 00:37:22,699
I'm trying to reply for the didn't ISD. All right. And once

653
00:37:22,699 --> 00:37:26,179
again this is one that you have seen. We had a zoning case

654
00:37:26,179 --> 00:37:30,610
come before you guys and they elected to go to ZBA ZBA did

655
00:37:30,610 --> 00:37:34,840
approve a variance for lot coverage and building height for

656
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,639
the didn't ISD administration building.

657
00:37:36,639 --> 00:37:41,139
So they are going to move forward with their development.

658
00:37:41,139 --> 00:37:45,280
So they are replating this in order to combine a bunch of

659
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:49,639
old old lots and also to abandon an alleyway through it.

660
00:37:49,639 --> 00:37:54,679
So if this does require a mailing and you have two letters

661
00:37:54,679 --> 00:38:03,309
on your desk. I had one in opposition and two in favor of

662
00:38:03,309 --> 00:38:05,639
the request.

663
00:38:05,639 --> 00:38:14,639
And I'll stand for any questions.

664
00:38:14,639 --> 00:38:19,630
Nice but coming I'm glad that the ISD and staff was able to

665
00:38:19,630 --> 00:38:23,639
get together and come up a way to get a variance created on

666
00:38:23,639 --> 00:38:27,239
that because I think it solves what was going to be a

667
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,639
really big issue so good job on all parties.

668
00:38:30,639 --> 00:38:33,639
Thank you.

669
00:38:33,639 --> 00:38:38,920
So our next item is a request for historic landmark

670
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:45,639
designation for 717 West Oak, and I invite Roman McAllen up

671
00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:45,639
.

672
00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:47,639
Thank you.

673
00:38:47,639 --> 00:38:51,440
I'm Roman McAllen I'm the historic preservation officer for

674
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:52,639
the city of Denton.

675
00:38:52,639 --> 00:38:58,199
And this is, these are two, two, two houses that have been

676
00:38:58,199 --> 00:39:00,639
asked to be a landmark.

677
00:39:00,639 --> 00:39:05,639
The first one is at 716 West Oak.

678
00:39:05,639 --> 00:39:09,210
And this is an image from the 1940s of it. I have a few

679
00:39:09,210 --> 00:39:11,440
slides I'll just click quickly through these and then if

680
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:12,639
you have any questions.

681
00:39:12,639 --> 00:39:16,250
Generally speaking this is all in your packet. The request

682
00:39:16,250 --> 00:39:19,059
is for a landmark designation, the owners Don and John

683
00:39:19,059 --> 00:39:22,159
Morris, the location there at south side of West Oak Street

684
00:39:22,159 --> 00:39:25,639
midway between Denton Street and Mounts Avenue and Oak

685
00:39:25,639 --> 00:39:27,639
history, Oak Hickory Historic District.

686
00:39:27,639 --> 00:39:31,940
And this designation complies with the Denton 2030 plan and

687
00:39:31,940 --> 00:39:37,639
I've got a slide on that. There's a request we're making.

688
00:39:37,639 --> 00:39:40,920
Historic landmark designations for those you know have been

689
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,639
been done here in Denton since 1986.

690
00:39:43,639 --> 00:39:48,409
And we're just continuing that tradition. This particular

691
00:39:48,409 --> 00:39:53,949
house was built around 1925, according to one survey in 19

692
00:39:53,949 --> 00:39:58,639
23 or 24 according to a couple of other records.

693
00:39:58,639 --> 00:40:02,440
This is the language as to how the why this is before the

694
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,820
planning and zoning commission, because the commission has

695
00:40:06,820 --> 00:40:09,659
to approve it after recommendation from the, from the

696
00:40:09,659 --> 00:40:10,639
landmark committee.

697
00:40:10,639 --> 00:40:13,639
Landmark Commission.

698
00:40:13,639 --> 00:40:18,389
The, with respect to the Denton plan 2030 there's kind of

699
00:40:18,389 --> 00:40:21,789
two elements to element four and seven that relate to this

700
00:40:21,789 --> 00:40:24,639
and I think this is just important to note.

701
00:40:24,639 --> 00:40:28,340
Four element four was developed to identify preserve

702
00:40:28,340 --> 00:40:32,340
maintain and create character areas within the city, and

703
00:40:32,340 --> 00:40:36,210
seven specifically calls out for defense mechanisms to

704
00:40:36,210 --> 00:40:40,860
prevent spillover impacts from adjacent corridor and center

705
00:40:40,860 --> 00:40:43,639
development and from capital investments such as road widen

706
00:40:43,639 --> 00:40:43,639
ing.

707
00:40:43,639 --> 00:40:47,639
So, you know, that's the idea behind.

708
00:40:47,639 --> 00:40:51,849
It's why people, why the city has supported landmark design

709
00:40:51,849 --> 00:40:52,639
ations.

710
00:40:52,639 --> 00:40:56,489
And this particular property again in the 1996 historic

711
00:40:56,489 --> 00:41:00,000
resource survey which was a very comprehensive survey that

712
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,110
was city wide and in 1996 every building that was 50 years

713
00:41:04,110 --> 00:41:05,639
or older was surveyed.

714
00:41:05,639 --> 00:41:09,210
There were a couple thousand buildings at that time and

715
00:41:09,210 --> 00:41:13,199
this house was listed as a colonial revival style. It's

716
00:41:13,199 --> 00:41:16,829
referred to as a different way but those those terms, it's

717
00:41:16,829 --> 00:41:20,639
kind of a blend of style so it.

718
00:41:20,639 --> 00:41:23,639
It's important that it's just 1925 and mostly original.

719
00:41:23,639 --> 00:41:28,199
There are 13 criteria, any one of those criteria qualify a

720
00:41:28,199 --> 00:41:30,639
house for landmark designation.

721
00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:34,210
And those are in your packet in this particular house I

722
00:41:34,210 --> 00:41:37,849
just pick three or the actually applicant pick three embod

723
00:41:37,849 --> 00:41:41,920
iment of a distinguishing characteristic of an architectural

724
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:42,639
type.

725
00:41:42,639 --> 00:41:47,699
And then here it refers to the colonial revival style and

726
00:41:47,699 --> 00:41:49,639
how you get there.

727
00:41:49,639 --> 00:41:54,289
The embodiment of elements of architectural design of

728
00:41:54,289 --> 00:41:57,349
innovation and this home represents that it'll see this

729
00:41:57,349 --> 00:41:59,539
home is a contributing home in oak history historic

730
00:41:59,539 --> 00:42:02,139
district as indicated by its architectural integrity so you

731
00:42:02,139 --> 00:42:05,639
can't be a contributing home in any historic district if

732
00:42:05,639 --> 00:42:08,219
you don't have enough architectural integrity this home has

733
00:42:08,219 --> 00:42:08,639
it.

734
00:42:08,639 --> 00:42:12,449
And then finally you can also be identified so a home could

735
00:42:12,449 --> 00:42:16,250
actually have very little left of it but if it meets number

736
00:42:16,250 --> 00:42:20,210
11 which is it's you know historical person in this case

737
00:42:20,210 --> 00:42:23,769
that the how the original Jackson family has been very

738
00:42:23,769 --> 00:42:25,639
prominent in.

739
00:42:25,639 --> 00:42:27,639
In Denton.

740
00:42:27,639 --> 00:42:30,630
Specifically the the senior how Jackson was it Brent

741
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:33,880
Jackson senior was an attorney and a county judge and then

742
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,170
his son how was, if you go through your documentation it's

743
00:42:37,170 --> 00:42:40,599
pretty impressive stuff that he's been involved in this was

744
00:42:40,599 --> 00:42:42,639
the home when the owner bought it.

745
00:42:42,639 --> 00:42:46,610
This is the home today it's also been fully rehabilitated

746
00:42:46,610 --> 00:42:50,639
so we'll probably see a tax exemption requests later.

747
00:42:50,639 --> 00:42:56,639
And we recommend approval for landmark designation.

748
00:42:56,639 --> 00:43:00,420
So, quick question just for my identification once the

749
00:43:00,420 --> 00:43:04,219
designation has been permitted to a property is there

750
00:43:04,219 --> 00:43:07,909
limitations on what that homeowner or property owner can

751
00:43:07,909 --> 00:43:11,769
then do in terms of updating windows or painting the house

752
00:43:11,769 --> 00:43:14,639
or are there limitations then put on the property

753
00:43:14,639 --> 00:43:17,639
because it's designated as a landmark.

754
00:43:17,639 --> 00:43:23,579
Not specifically as such it. The, the historic landmark

755
00:43:23,579 --> 00:43:27,550
designation, or any property in one of the three historic

756
00:43:27,550 --> 00:43:28,639
districts.

757
00:43:28,639 --> 00:43:32,119
When they apply for a building permit. They also have to

758
00:43:32,119 --> 00:43:35,639
get us what's called certificate of appropriateness.

759
00:43:35,639 --> 00:43:39,239
And that could either be approved administratively by the

760
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,510
preservation officer if it's kind of routine maintenance

761
00:43:42,510 --> 00:43:46,010
roofing painting course any kind of repairs even when

762
00:43:46,010 --> 00:43:48,280
rotten wood repair. But if you're getting to where you're

763
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:49,639
alter altering the structure, especially

764
00:43:49,639 --> 00:43:52,639
if you're altering the front of it, or what's visible from

765
00:43:52,639 --> 00:43:55,389
the roadway or the sides, then you would take it to the

766
00:43:55,389 --> 00:43:58,119
historic landmark commission who would apply the US

767
00:43:58,119 --> 00:44:01,289
Secretary of Interior standards for historic preservation

768
00:44:01,289 --> 00:44:04,639
and an approver deny that you can

769
00:44:04,639 --> 00:44:07,219
change windows, windows are kind of one of the most

770
00:44:07,219 --> 00:44:10,099
important things because there have been many studies to

771
00:44:10,099 --> 00:44:12,980
show that if your historical windows are there and intact

772
00:44:12,980 --> 00:44:15,980
that they're the most sustainable way to go that the, that

773
00:44:15,980 --> 00:44:18,639
you don't get a real big payback by, so we discourage going

774
00:44:18,639 --> 00:44:18,639
in

775
00:44:18,639 --> 00:44:21,760
with that. On the other hand if you put in a real high

776
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,860
quality window that matches the facade and that's that's

777
00:44:24,860 --> 00:44:29,650
usually going to be allowed. And a lot of things can be

778
00:44:29,650 --> 00:44:30,639
allowed it's

779
00:44:30,639 --> 00:44:34,210
in general when you're looking at a structure, you don't

780
00:44:34,210 --> 00:44:37,900
want to alter it significantly is the rule of thumb. Then

781
00:44:37,900 --> 00:44:41,650
if the historic landmark commission did deny certificate of

782
00:44:41,650 --> 00:44:45,030
appropriateness that may be appealed to the PNC that

783
00:44:45,030 --> 00:44:45,639
decision may be

784
00:44:45,639 --> 00:44:52,260
appealed to the city or appeal to the City Council as well.

785
00:44:52,260 --> 00:44:58,480
So there's a lot of opportunities for someone to get with

786
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,639
what they need. Yeah. Thank you.

787
00:45:00,639 --> 00:45:06,639
Any other questions for staff on this particular residence.

788
00:45:06,639 --> 00:45:11,170
Next one. Sure. Thank you, sir. The next one is that is HL

789
00:45:11,170 --> 00:45:16,639
16 seven. This is 616 Pearl Street again in 1940s image.

790
00:45:16,639 --> 00:45:19,550
This home. Also, and if I felt in both of these some of

791
00:45:19,550 --> 00:45:22,639
these largely intact including the windows on all of the

792
00:45:22,639 --> 00:45:22,639
side.

793
00:45:22,639 --> 00:45:26,070
This home is there also in the oak history is okay, history

794
00:45:26,070 --> 00:45:34,239
, historic district. Here the owners, William and Angela

795
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:38,269
Matthews. And this home was constructed around 1917 I

796
00:45:38,269 --> 00:45:41,039
believe it also there's some differences on that date but a

797
00:45:41,039 --> 00:45:42,639
little little before or after

798
00:45:42,639 --> 00:45:53,650
1917 is the accurate number purse and deed records that the

799
00:45:53,650 --> 00:45:59,639
owner has 1920s what was a guest. This are the three

800
00:45:59,639 --> 00:45:59,639
elements that it would meet. It's a specific style in case

801
00:45:59,639 --> 00:45:59,639
of number three. It's contributes to the history historic

802
00:45:59,639 --> 00:45:59,639
district 12 and the sense of pride 13.

803
00:45:59,639 --> 00:46:02,780
With all these HLs, there's, you could really get most of

804
00:46:02,780 --> 00:46:05,869
the homes on a lot of those 13 criteria you just need to

805
00:46:05,869 --> 00:46:08,780
pick one here's the home today just for the record it's

806
00:46:08,780 --> 00:46:12,639
undergone also an extensive rehabilitation. It's a great

807
00:46:12,639 --> 00:46:14,639
looking home as is the other.

808
00:46:14,639 --> 00:46:21,639
Both of these do a lot for our residents.

809
00:46:21,639 --> 00:46:26,630
And that's actually insignificant that it could be an HL

810
00:46:26,630 --> 00:46:31,579
but it's these happen to also just have the be really good

811
00:46:31,579 --> 00:46:33,639
quality restoration.

812
00:46:33,639 --> 00:46:51,639
That's we have on that one.

813
00:46:51,639 --> 00:47:14,639
That's great. Thank you. Okay. Thanks.

814
00:47:14,639 --> 00:47:18,969
Good morning so this first case is a z 1621 it's a zoning

815
00:47:18,969 --> 00:47:21,639
case for the North Elm Apartments.

816
00:47:21,639 --> 00:47:23,840
So the request is for us to hold a public hearing and

817
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,590
consider making a recommendation to city council regarding

818
00:47:26,590 --> 00:47:29,219
a rezoning from regional center commercial downtown to

819
00:47:29,219 --> 00:47:33,590
neighborhood residential mixed use on approximately 12.97

820
00:47:33,590 --> 00:47:34,639
acres.

821
00:47:34,639 --> 00:47:38,250
Located on the kind of west northwest side of the rainy

822
00:47:38,250 --> 00:47:42,989
road Elm Street intersection. It's about 1900 feet east of

823
00:47:42,989 --> 00:47:44,639
Bonnie Bray Street.

824
00:47:44,639 --> 00:47:48,210
Just a little more idea of what's in the area to the north

825
00:47:48,210 --> 00:47:51,739
across Elm is a UNT discovery park. It's bordered on the

826
00:47:51,739 --> 00:47:54,809
south by North Lake Park across rainy road, and then two

827
00:47:54,809 --> 00:47:57,639
properties to the west and southwest of it have recently

828
00:47:57,639 --> 00:48:01,639
been plotted for town home development in the future.

829
00:48:01,639 --> 00:48:07,539
So currently it is our zone RCC D, their proposal is to go

830
00:48:07,539 --> 00:48:08,639
to NRM you.

831
00:48:08,639 --> 00:48:12,219
The future land use designation for the property is

832
00:48:12,219 --> 00:48:15,480
neighborhood mixed use, which applies to primarily

833
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,360
residential areas where we encourage a mix of housing types

834
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,139
and densities, as well as supporting retail and service

835
00:48:23,139 --> 00:48:23,639
uses.

836
00:48:23,639 --> 00:48:26,510
So, rezoning NRM you is kind of a logical extension because

837
00:48:26,510 --> 00:48:29,480
there's already neighborhood residential designations to

838
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,199
the south and the east of the property. And it is

839
00:48:32,199 --> 00:48:35,760
consistent with that future land use designation of

840
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:37,639
neighborhood mixed use.

841
00:48:37,639 --> 00:48:40,840
If you compare the scale of development that would be

842
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,480
permitted between these two districts, and given what's

843
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,949
around it being primarily residential uses of attached

844
00:48:47,949 --> 00:48:51,389
single family single family and other apartments in the

845
00:48:51,389 --> 00:48:54,840
area, and our immune seems much more fitting with the scale

846
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,000
in terms of density and building height and things like

847
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:57,639
that for the area.

848
00:48:57,639 --> 00:49:00,590
And also in your backup was the schedule of permitted uses

849
00:49:00,590 --> 00:49:03,329
and if you look through that you can see that NRM you as a

850
00:49:03,329 --> 00:49:06,280
much less intense district in terms of the commercial and

851
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,639
some industrial uses that are allowed.

852
00:49:08,639 --> 00:49:12,510
So it would seem more appropriate for the character of the

853
00:49:12,510 --> 00:49:13,639
area as well.

854
00:49:13,639 --> 00:49:17,239
So the applicant indicated that they're requesting this rez

855
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,579
oning, because under the RCC district there is a limitation

856
00:49:20,579 --> 00:49:23,909
that requires multifamily uses be part of a mixed use

857
00:49:23,909 --> 00:49:27,289
development that would require commercial uses be on the

858
00:49:27,289 --> 00:49:29,639
ground floor along any Avenue collector or arterial.

859
00:49:29,639 --> 00:49:33,429
So in this case they would have required commercial uses on

860
00:49:33,429 --> 00:49:36,639
the ground floor along both Riney and Elm Street.

861
00:49:36,639 --> 00:49:40,449
And rezoning NRM you. There is also a limitation for mixed

862
00:49:40,449 --> 00:49:44,269
use, but it does allow multifamily development to occur,

863
00:49:44,269 --> 00:49:47,699
either as part of a mixed use development under a small

864
00:49:47,699 --> 00:49:49,639
area plan or with an SUV.

865
00:49:49,639 --> 00:49:53,059
So that's why they've concurrently submitted an application

866
00:49:53,059 --> 00:49:54,639
for a specific use permit.

867
00:49:54,639 --> 00:49:58,579
So if both of those are permitted or approved then they

868
00:49:58,579 --> 00:50:02,440
would be allowed to pursue this without the mixed use

869
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:03,639
component.

870
00:50:03,639 --> 00:50:06,789
So the applicant also recommended that the property be part

871
00:50:06,789 --> 00:50:09,639
of a mixed use development under a small area plan.

872
00:50:09,639 --> 00:50:12,789
So that's the request for the area right now it's currently

873
00:50:12,789 --> 00:50:15,889
vacant land and notifications were sent out five notices

874
00:50:15,889 --> 00:50:19,639
sent to properties within 200 feet six within 500.

875
00:50:19,639 --> 00:50:22,610
And one response was received in favor who is from the

876
00:50:22,610 --> 00:50:25,449
current owner of the property, and they did hold a

877
00:50:25,449 --> 00:50:28,650
neighborhood meeting on November 22, there was no

878
00:50:28,650 --> 00:50:30,639
attendance at the meeting.

879
00:50:30,639 --> 00:50:33,639
The future land use designation.

880
00:50:33,639 --> 00:50:35,639
So there any questions on the zoning case.

881
00:50:35,639 --> 00:50:36,639
One question.

882
00:50:36,639 --> 00:50:39,639
Commissioner was L.

883
00:50:39,639 --> 00:50:43,210
This, instead of me assuming I'd rather just ask an SGP

884
00:50:43,210 --> 00:50:46,570
couldn't be done on the current zoning to skip the mixed

885
00:50:46,570 --> 00:50:49,869
use it has to be into mixed use and then an SGP on top of

886
00:50:49,869 --> 00:50:50,639
that.

887
00:50:50,639 --> 00:50:54,889
So there's two limitations applied in our CCD one of them

888
00:50:54,889 --> 00:50:58,949
is the same one that it has under NRM you that allows the

889
00:50:58,949 --> 00:51:03,659
SGP. However, the other one does specifically call out the

890
00:51:03,659 --> 00:51:07,730
need for commercial uses on the ground floor along the

891
00:51:07,730 --> 00:51:08,639
streets.

892
00:51:08,639 --> 00:51:11,639
So, yeah, go any other questions.

893
00:51:11,639 --> 00:51:14,639
Alright, so they can go quickly through the SGP here.

894
00:51:14,639 --> 00:51:16,639
Much of the same information.

895
00:51:16,639 --> 00:51:20,639
In this case as 16 five.

896
00:51:20,639 --> 00:51:23,630
Again, they're requesting this SGP for multifamily

897
00:51:23,630 --> 00:51:29,139
development. The same property here on Rhenie and North Elm

898
00:51:29,139 --> 00:51:29,639
.

899
00:51:29,639 --> 00:51:33,219
So just a reminder there are requesting this rezoning to NR

900
00:51:33,219 --> 00:51:36,420
M you, and it is compatible with that future land use

901
00:51:36,420 --> 00:51:37,639
designation.

902
00:51:37,639 --> 00:51:40,510
So pending approval of the rezoning they're proposing a

903
00:51:40,510 --> 00:51:43,639
multifamily development without a mixed use component.

904
00:51:43,639 --> 00:51:46,840
So, again, it is consistent with the future land use and

905
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:49,909
the development that's occurring in the area, and it

906
00:51:49,909 --> 00:51:53,289
generally complies with the criteria for approval of an SGP

907
00:51:53,289 --> 00:51:58,639
that are outlined in 3564 of the DDC.

908
00:51:58,639 --> 00:52:06,659
Just go quickly through their site plan. What they're

909
00:52:06,659 --> 00:52:14,639
proposing is to divide the property into three lots. So the

910
00:52:14,639 --> 00:52:14,639
two that are outlined in blue would have the multifamily

911
00:52:14,639 --> 00:52:14,639
development on it. The third lot that's at the very corner

912
00:52:14,639 --> 00:52:14,639
of Elm and Rhenie is being reserved for development at a

913
00:52:14,639 --> 00:52:14,639
later date.

914
00:52:14,639 --> 00:52:17,989
They haven't indicated an intent to do anything with that

915
00:52:17,989 --> 00:52:18,639
lot yet.

916
00:52:18,639 --> 00:52:21,650
And in addition to the two lots, they're also proposing a

917
00:52:21,650 --> 00:52:24,650
new right of way that would be called Discovery Boulevard

918
00:52:24,650 --> 00:52:27,639
connecting north to south from Rhenie to North Elm.

919
00:52:27,639 --> 00:52:30,650
To give you a general idea of their product they're looking

920
00:52:30,650 --> 00:52:33,639
to develop, lot one, which is the lot on the west side,

921
00:52:33,639 --> 00:52:36,639
would have two four story apartment buildings on it.

922
00:52:36,639 --> 00:52:40,119
There would be 89 one bedroom units and 66 two bedroom

923
00:52:40,119 --> 00:52:41,639
units in those buildings.

924
00:52:41,639 --> 00:52:45,550
On lot two, they would have three three story buildings, 86

925
00:52:45,550 --> 00:52:48,639
one bedroom units and 48 two bedroom units.

926
00:52:48,639 --> 00:52:52,239
And looking at their calculations, they are parked

927
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:56,199
appropriately with on-site parking as well as parallel

928
00:52:56,199 --> 00:52:58,639
parking along Discovery Boulevard.

929
00:52:58,639 --> 00:53:03,639
And to kind of mitigate the use here, a type B buffer,

930
00:53:03,639 --> 00:53:06,670
which is a 10 foot wide planted area, is required between

931
00:53:06,670 --> 00:53:09,650
this multifamily and the proposed attached single family

932
00:53:09,650 --> 00:53:10,639
units to the west.

933
00:53:10,639 --> 00:53:13,889
In addition to that 10 foot wide planting area, they also

934
00:53:13,889 --> 00:53:16,769
have indicated that they intend to leave the existing

935
00:53:16,769 --> 00:53:19,889
vegetation along the western border to help intensify that

936
00:53:19,889 --> 00:53:20,639
buffer.

937
00:53:20,639 --> 00:53:23,400
And the way they've laid out the site, they do have some

938
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,639
parking that would be along Rhenie Road.

939
00:53:25,639 --> 00:53:28,690
So to mitigate for any nuisances that could be caused by

940
00:53:28,690 --> 00:53:32,360
that parking, they've proposed a planting of small trees

941
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,639
and shrubs in that it is in an electric utility easement,

942
00:53:35,639 --> 00:53:37,639
so it restricted what they could plant.

943
00:53:37,639 --> 00:53:41,239
But they worked with DME and found some plants that would

944
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,639
be appropriate in that easement.

945
00:53:43,639 --> 00:53:45,639
Just an idea of their elevations.

946
00:53:45,639 --> 00:53:48,590
For all of the buildings, they are proposing materials that

947
00:53:48,590 --> 00:53:51,639
would be brick, stone, stucco and fiber cement siding.

948
00:53:51,639 --> 00:53:55,420
Each of the buildings has an average of 60 to 70% masonry

949
00:53:55,420 --> 00:53:56,639
components on it.

950
00:53:56,639 --> 00:53:59,320
I did include the elevations for each of the buildings just

951
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:01,639
to give you an idea of what they're looking at.

952
00:54:01,639 --> 00:54:06,110
So this is building one which would have the leasing center

953
00:54:06,110 --> 00:54:07,639
and offices in it.

954
00:54:07,639 --> 00:54:10,679
There's a close up to show you more of how they're planning

955
00:54:10,679 --> 00:54:12,639
to distribute those materials.

956
00:54:12,639 --> 00:54:14,869
And this would be the other four story building that they

957
00:54:14,869 --> 00:54:15,639
're looking at.

958
00:54:15,639 --> 00:54:18,090
And all of these are also included in your backup if you'd

959
00:54:18,090 --> 00:54:19,639
like to see them in more detail.

960
00:54:19,639 --> 00:54:23,780
And then there are three story buildings which would be on

961
00:54:23,780 --> 00:54:24,639
lot two.

962
00:54:24,639 --> 00:54:26,639
Again, all very similar materials.

963
00:54:26,639 --> 00:54:31,639
They do have garages under some of the units.

964
00:54:31,639 --> 00:54:34,639
And again, with this case, we did send out notification.

965
00:54:34,639 --> 00:54:37,219
We got one response in favor from the current property

966
00:54:37,219 --> 00:54:37,639
owner.

967
00:54:37,639 --> 00:54:40,639
And they did hold a neighborhood meeting.

968
00:54:40,639 --> 00:54:42,639
But again, no attendance at that meeting.

969
00:54:42,639 --> 00:54:45,639
So for this case, staff recommends approval of the request

970
00:54:45,639 --> 00:54:48,639
because of its compatibility with the surrounding area.

971
00:54:48,639 --> 00:54:53,380
And with the Denton Plan 2030, we do put one condition on

972
00:54:53,380 --> 00:54:55,639
our recommendation.

973
00:54:55,639 --> 00:54:58,059
And that would be that it substantially complies with the

974
00:54:58,059 --> 00:55:01,170
site plan, landscape plan, and elevations that you've seen

975
00:55:01,170 --> 00:55:01,639
here.

976
00:55:01,639 --> 00:55:05,639
So any questions on this?

977
00:55:05,639 --> 00:55:07,639
Commissioner Heskett.

978
00:55:07,639 --> 00:55:09,639
And stop me if I get out of scope.

979
00:55:09,639 --> 00:55:12,639
But I have -- and it may be a question for Earl.

980
00:55:12,639 --> 00:55:20,670
I have road improvement and type questions, infrastructure,

981
00:55:20,670 --> 00:55:24,639
because riding road is pretty narrow.

982
00:55:24,639 --> 00:55:26,639
So I'm assuming they're going to do improvements.

983
00:55:26,639 --> 00:55:31,809
And there's -- seems like this area is getting developed

984
00:55:31,809 --> 00:55:33,639
pretty quickly.

985
00:55:33,639 --> 00:55:37,219
So I want to try to get an understanding of what

986
00:55:37,219 --> 00:55:40,639
improvements they're going to be making on Riney.

987
00:55:40,639 --> 00:55:45,340
Because I know the water lines don't come -- I'm not sure

988
00:55:45,340 --> 00:55:49,639
if they come all the way down Riney or existing.

989
00:55:49,639 --> 00:55:50,639
Okay.

990
00:55:50,639 --> 00:55:53,639
So what improvements do they have to make to the road?

991
00:55:53,639 --> 00:55:54,639
Okay.

992
00:55:54,639 --> 00:55:57,230
There is an existing townhome development located on the

993
00:55:57,230 --> 00:55:59,639
south side of Riney, just west of this site here.

994
00:55:59,639 --> 00:56:04,820
There is another townhome development approved and about to

995
00:56:04,820 --> 00:56:08,789
start construction here soon, directly west of this

996
00:56:08,789 --> 00:56:09,639
development.

997
00:56:09,639 --> 00:56:12,639
So both of these developments have improved Riney Road.

998
00:56:12,639 --> 00:56:16,840
So you'll have a full improved section of Riney along both

999
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:18,639
of these frontages.

1000
00:56:18,639 --> 00:56:22,420
When this development does come in, it would -- it was best

1001
00:56:22,420 --> 00:56:26,639
for this development to go ahead and improve Riney Road.

1002
00:56:26,639 --> 00:56:28,639
It would be 25 feet worth of pavement.

1003
00:56:28,639 --> 00:56:31,820
I believe the existing pavement out there is only 20 feet,

1004
00:56:31,820 --> 00:56:32,639
if even that.

1005
00:56:32,639 --> 00:56:36,210
And so they'll improve 25 feet of pavement all the way

1006
00:56:36,210 --> 00:56:38,539
along their furnish, which extends all the way to the

1007
00:56:38,539 --> 00:56:39,639
intersection of Willam Street.

1008
00:56:39,639 --> 00:56:44,659
They're also building a full road -- public roadway that

1009
00:56:44,659 --> 00:56:52,090
bisects their site and connects Riney to 77 as well, along

1010
00:56:52,090 --> 00:56:57,639
with a left turn lane within this existing median opening.

1011
00:56:57,639 --> 00:56:59,639
Excellent.

1012
00:56:59,639 --> 00:57:00,639
And --

1013
00:57:00,639 --> 00:57:01,639
Continue. Sure.

1014
00:57:01,639 --> 00:57:02,639
Thank you.

1015
00:57:02,639 --> 00:57:11,639
Any pause in traffic darting across Elm from there?

1016
00:57:11,639 --> 00:57:13,639
Will the openings prohibit that?

1017
00:57:13,639 --> 00:57:17,329
Or, I mean, because -- what is the speed limit on Elm there

1018
00:57:17,329 --> 00:57:17,639
?

1019
00:57:17,639 --> 00:57:20,059
I mean, you can get up to going pretty -- I don't know what

1020
00:57:20,059 --> 00:57:20,639
the speed limit is.

1021
00:57:20,639 --> 00:57:21,639
I think it's 50.

1022
00:57:21,639 --> 00:57:22,639
Yeah.

1023
00:57:22,639 --> 00:57:23,639
55.1.

1024
00:57:23,639 --> 00:57:24,639
Yes.

1025
00:57:24,639 --> 00:57:32,199
But coming out of there, is there a gradual merge, or do

1026
00:57:32,199 --> 00:57:36,639
you think they would use Riney?

1027
00:57:36,639 --> 00:57:40,639
Oh, heading -- if you're coming southbound on to the site?

1028
00:57:40,639 --> 00:57:42,639
Moreover, if you're leaving the site.

1029
00:57:42,639 --> 00:57:43,639
Leaving the site, so yes.

1030
00:57:43,639 --> 00:57:47,739
I'm assuming if they're attracting someone that's going to

1031
00:57:47,739 --> 00:57:51,610
be needing to get to Discovery Park, let's say, you're

1032
00:57:51,610 --> 00:57:56,239
tempted to try to cross four lanes of traffic at 50, have

1033
00:57:56,239 --> 00:57:59,639
we done an analysis of that?

1034
00:57:59,639 --> 00:58:03,500
And again, because there's going to be quite the injection

1035
00:58:03,500 --> 00:58:07,219
of people in this area, has that been looked at, how they

1036
00:58:07,219 --> 00:58:10,719
're going to get across Elm, let's say they want to go to

1037
00:58:10,719 --> 00:58:14,329
Razor Ranch and don't want to take the scenic route and go

1038
00:58:14,329 --> 00:58:15,639
to the right.

1039
00:58:15,639 --> 00:58:18,400
You're tempted to go to the left, but again, you've got to

1040
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:19,639
go across four lanes.

1041
00:58:19,639 --> 00:58:22,840
But Riney Road, the existing Riney Road does extend all the

1042
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,880
way to Bonny Bray, so if they wanted to go to Razor, they

1043
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:29,019
would probably end up taking the existing Riney all the way

1044
00:58:29,019 --> 00:58:31,849
down to Bonny Bray and taking a left and heading south

1045
00:58:31,849 --> 00:58:32,639
there.

1046
00:58:32,639 --> 00:58:37,670
In terms of crossing the entire width of Elm Street to the

1047
00:58:37,670 --> 00:58:41,639
Discovery Center, it's a possibility.

1048
00:58:41,639 --> 00:58:42,639
It can be done.

1049
00:58:42,639 --> 00:58:45,769
They also have the protection of the median, since it's

1050
00:58:45,769 --> 00:58:48,900
such a wide opening, they can, if they can't make it all

1051
00:58:48,900 --> 00:58:52,099
the way through, they can at least make it halfway, wait

1052
00:58:52,099 --> 00:58:55,639
until it clears and then cross the other half, if need be.

1053
00:58:55,639 --> 00:58:58,360
And same thing with making a left out as well. They have

1054
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,639
that protection of that median opening.

1055
00:59:01,639 --> 00:59:02,639
Thank you.

1056
00:59:02,639 --> 00:59:05,789
Do we have any information on when or if a light would be

1057
00:59:05,789 --> 00:59:07,639
installed at that location?

1058
00:59:07,639 --> 00:59:13,130
No, the light will actually be installed at Nicosia, which

1059
00:59:13,130 --> 00:59:17,380
is not too far down to where the new animal shelter is

1060
00:59:17,380 --> 00:59:18,639
going to be.

1061
00:59:18,639 --> 00:59:21,949
There's just not going to be enough traffic to warrant, and

1062
00:59:21,949 --> 00:59:24,969
the spacing is not going to meet textile requirements

1063
00:59:24,969 --> 00:59:29,920
anyway, but Nicosia is going to be the busier intersection

1064
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:31,639
between the two.

1065
00:59:31,639 --> 00:59:34,019
Do you have a timeline on that one? The Nicosia

1066
00:59:34,019 --> 00:59:34,639
intersection?

1067
00:59:34,639 --> 00:59:42,639
There is no timeline for that.

1068
00:59:42,639 --> 00:59:45,639
I'd have a follow up question on engineering then.

1069
00:59:45,639 --> 00:59:49,210
So if they're going to be doing the improvements on Riney

1070
00:59:49,210 --> 00:59:52,119
Road instead of the traffic impact fee, is that how they're

1071
00:59:52,119 --> 00:59:52,639
going to do that?

1072
00:59:52,639 --> 00:59:57,110
They'll get credit towards that. So the way it works is

1073
00:59:57,110 --> 01:00:01,780
they'll have the maximum amount which they'll be proportion

1074
01:00:01,780 --> 01:00:05,329
ately responsible to build up to, and if that amount is

1075
01:00:05,329 --> 01:00:09,119
greater than, I guess if the cost of the road improvements

1076
01:00:09,119 --> 01:00:11,880
is greater than the calculated amount that they would

1077
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:17,539
normally just pay, then they would just be credited towards

1078
01:00:17,539 --> 01:00:20,949
that calculated amount, not be required to pay any roadway

1079
01:00:20,949 --> 01:00:21,639
impact fees.

1080
01:00:21,639 --> 01:00:27,320
Okay. So they are going to, so are they required to put in

1081
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:28,639
that street section or not in this?

1082
01:00:28,639 --> 01:00:33,179
It's a tough call because you have the option. Do you want

1083
01:00:33,179 --> 01:00:35,960
them to improve the road or do you want to collect the fee

1084
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:38,960
at a significantly reduced amount that you can apply within

1085
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,639
that six square mile area of that service area?

1086
01:00:41,639 --> 01:00:44,940
And in this case, staff felt that it would be best to just

1087
01:00:44,940 --> 01:00:48,469
have them improve the road and credit it towards their road

1088
01:00:48,469 --> 01:00:49,639
way impact fees.

1089
01:00:49,639 --> 01:00:52,639
So that is required. They don't get an option to choose.

1090
01:00:52,639 --> 01:00:54,639
They're going to have to improve Riney Road?

1091
01:00:54,639 --> 01:00:55,639
That's correct.

1092
01:00:55,639 --> 01:01:08,639
Okay. Any other questions for Earl?

1093
01:01:08,639 --> 01:01:13,639
Thank you, Earl.

1094
01:01:13,639 --> 01:01:14,639
Commissioner Ellis.

1095
01:01:14,639 --> 01:01:17,829
Thank you, Chair. Haley, on your last slide, and this is

1096
01:01:17,829 --> 01:01:20,960
just for my own clarification, with the condition, and I

1097
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:24,400
see the term used a lot, substantially comply, do we have a

1098
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,639
definition for what that actually means?

1099
01:01:27,639 --> 01:01:32,639
Sharon, would you like to answer that?

1100
01:01:32,639 --> 01:01:34,639
Yeah.

1101
01:01:34,639 --> 01:01:38,260
There is no hard definition of what that means. It's

1102
01:01:38,260 --> 01:01:41,639
discretionary with the planner.

1103
01:01:41,639 --> 01:01:46,429
And I think we do that on purpose so that there's a little

1104
01:01:46,429 --> 01:01:47,639
bit more room.

1105
01:01:47,639 --> 01:01:51,260
If something is, it can't be done and you have to move

1106
01:01:51,260 --> 01:01:54,639
something, then it's easier to do that way.

1107
01:01:54,639 --> 01:01:58,949
So obviously we do look at the number of units in that same

1108
01:01:58,949 --> 01:02:01,639
ballpark that they presented.

1109
01:02:01,639 --> 01:02:05,800
We want to see the elevation be consistent. Obviously there

1110
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,480
may be some tweaks that they need to make down the line,

1111
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,659
but the end product should look substantially like what

1112
01:02:12,659 --> 01:02:13,639
they presented here.

1113
01:02:13,639 --> 01:02:17,639
And that's sort of how we go on that one.

1114
01:02:17,639 --> 01:02:23,639
I'm sorry.

1115
01:02:23,639 --> 01:02:24,639
Commissioner Taylor.

1116
01:02:24,639 --> 01:02:29,110
Thank you. Kind of a related question. The site plan

1117
01:02:29,110 --> 01:02:31,639
includes interior layouts.

1118
01:02:31,639 --> 01:02:34,639
That's not very typical.

1119
01:02:34,639 --> 01:02:38,639
If you zoom in, those are actually rooms and stuff.

1120
01:02:38,639 --> 01:02:39,639
Yeah, that's not very typical.

1121
01:02:39,639 --> 01:02:42,710
Yeah. And so I just wanted to make sure that normally we

1122
01:02:42,710 --> 01:02:44,929
make site plan binding, but the site plan just has a

1123
01:02:44,929 --> 01:02:45,639
footprint.

1124
01:02:45,639 --> 01:02:50,380
So is the developer aware that they're going to be

1125
01:02:50,380 --> 01:02:54,639
potentially bound to a layout with this?

1126
01:02:54,639 --> 01:02:57,639
As long as it has to be substantially similar to...

1127
01:02:57,639 --> 01:02:59,800
We would allow some wiggle room there on that if they

1128
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:00,639
couldn't do it.

1129
01:03:00,639 --> 01:03:03,550
But yeah, they are aware that we're holding them to the

1130
01:03:03,550 --> 01:03:05,639
site plan as they've presented it.

1131
01:03:05,639 --> 01:03:08,719
Okay, I just wanted to... They don't want to substitute in

1132
01:03:08,719 --> 01:03:12,639
the next hour a site plan with only a footprint, do they?

1133
01:03:12,639 --> 01:03:13,639
We could ask them.

1134
01:03:13,639 --> 01:03:16,219
Okay, like I said, I just don't want to get them in a bind

1135
01:03:16,219 --> 01:03:20,130
where, you know, the garage is in the wrong side or that

1136
01:03:20,130 --> 01:03:23,309
one's a two bedroom, not a three bedroom or something like

1137
01:03:23,309 --> 01:03:23,639
that.

1138
01:03:23,639 --> 01:03:27,210
And things like that, if the garage is facing... visible

1139
01:03:27,210 --> 01:03:30,739
from the street, stairwells visible from the street, we

1140
01:03:30,739 --> 01:03:34,750
will hold them to that because that impacts the visual, the

1141
01:03:34,750 --> 01:03:37,639
aesthetics of the development.

1142
01:03:37,639 --> 01:03:40,760
Obviously, if they need to adjust the layout due to

1143
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:43,980
engineering or some other issue that comes up during

1144
01:03:43,980 --> 01:03:46,639
construction, we can work with them.

1145
01:03:46,639 --> 01:03:52,610
But generally, what they present is what we would look for

1146
01:03:52,610 --> 01:03:54,639
when it comes in.

1147
01:03:54,639 --> 01:03:56,639
Any other questions?

1148
01:03:56,639 --> 01:03:57,639
All right. Thank you.

1149
01:03:57,639 --> 01:04:03,639
Thank you.

1150
01:04:03,639 --> 01:04:14,639
That's it.

1151
01:04:14,639 --> 01:04:19,219
With that, we have gone through all the items that we have

1152
01:04:19,219 --> 01:04:23,429
on our both our work session and then to present in our

1153
01:04:23,429 --> 01:04:28,409
public session later on this evening. So, unless there any

1154
01:04:28,409 --> 01:04:33,639
other questions at this time prior to closing work session.

1155
01:04:33,639 --> 01:04:52,639
Then I'm going to close our work session at 537. Thank you.

1156
01:04:52,639 --> 01:04:56,619
Good evening and welcome to the November 30 planning and

1157
01:04:56,619 --> 01:04:59,639
zoning Commission for the city of Denton.

1158
01:04:59,639 --> 01:05:03,639
This meeting has been duly posted and a quorum is present.

1159
01:05:03,639 --> 01:05:07,349
It is 631 and I will call our meeting to order at this time

1160
01:05:07,349 --> 01:05:07,639
.

1161
01:05:07,639 --> 01:05:14,639
Please stand and join us to say the US and the Texas flag.

1162
01:05:14,639 --> 01:05:18,909
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of

1163
01:05:18,909 --> 01:05:24,070
America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation

1164
01:05:24,070 --> 01:05:29,639
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

1165
01:05:29,639 --> 01:05:44,139
I pledge allegiance to the city of Texas, one state under

1166
01:05:44,139 --> 01:05:49,639
God, one indivisible.

1167
01:05:49,639 --> 01:05:54,920
The next item on our agenda this evening will be to

1168
01:05:54,920 --> 01:06:01,429
consider approval of our PNC Commission meeting minutes for

1169
01:06:01,429 --> 01:06:03,639
October the 26.

1170
01:06:03,639 --> 01:06:04,639
Commissioner Hussbuth.

1171
01:06:04,639 --> 01:06:06,639
Move approval.

1172
01:06:06,639 --> 01:06:07,639
Commissioner Ellis.

1173
01:06:07,639 --> 01:06:08,639
Second.

1174
01:06:08,639 --> 01:06:09,639
Okay.

1175
01:06:09,639 --> 01:06:33,639
We have a first and a second. Any discussion? Seeing none,

1176
01:06:33,639 --> 01:06:33,639
I'll call for a vote on the board.

1177
01:06:33,639 --> 01:06:42,639
Motion carries five zero. I don't know why it's five.

1178
01:06:42,639 --> 01:06:47,639
I don't see recuse but anyway.

1179
01:06:47,639 --> 01:06:51,639
Five zero and one recuse.

1180
01:06:51,639 --> 01:06:56,639
Is that correct?

1181
01:06:56,639 --> 01:07:02,639
That will take us to our consent agenda.

1182
01:07:02,639 --> 01:07:03,639
Commissioner Rossell.

1183
01:07:03,639 --> 01:07:06,639
I move for approval of the consent agenda.

1184
01:07:06,639 --> 01:07:07,639
Commissioner Taylor.

1185
01:07:07,639 --> 01:07:08,639
Second.

1186
01:07:08,639 --> 01:07:09,639
Okay.

1187
01:07:09,639 --> 01:07:16,639
Have a first and a second. Any discussion?

1188
01:07:16,639 --> 01:07:30,639
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

1189
01:07:30,639 --> 01:07:33,639
Motion carries six zero.

1190
01:07:33,639 --> 01:07:38,639
Move us to item four, items for individual consideration.

1191
01:07:38,639 --> 01:07:46,230
The first item we'll have will be PDA 16-0007A and we'll

1192
01:07:46,230 --> 01:07:53,639
call on Julie Wyatt for the presentation.

1193
01:07:53,639 --> 01:07:55,320
Julie, before you get started, I want to announce to the

1194
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:58,639
crowd, this is an individual consideration item.

1195
01:07:58,639 --> 01:08:01,340
This was a public hearing at our last meeting and if you

1196
01:08:01,340 --> 01:08:03,980
spoke, our rules are that you can't speak at a public

1197
01:08:03,980 --> 01:08:04,639
hearing.

1198
01:08:04,639 --> 01:08:07,900
However, since this is an individual consideration item, if

1199
01:08:07,900 --> 01:08:11,039
you would like to speak after we have it presented, if you

1200
01:08:11,039 --> 01:08:13,389
want to fill out a card, you'll be allowed to speak at that

1201
01:08:13,389 --> 01:08:13,639
time.

1202
01:08:13,639 --> 01:08:16,979
So if you would like to speak on it, please fill out a card

1203
01:08:16,979 --> 01:08:20,210
and we will be happy to have you before us to answer your

1204
01:08:20,210 --> 01:08:22,640
question to receive your comments.

1205
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:23,640
Thank you, Julie.

1206
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:24,640
Sure.

1207
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:25,640
Good evening.

1208
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:28,640
I'm Julie Wyatt, senior planner with the City of Denton.

1209
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:31,640
This is PDA 16-7, Robeson Ranch.

1210
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:34,029
The request before you is to consider making a

1211
01:08:34,029 --> 01:08:37,119
recommendation to city council regarding a detailed plan

1212
01:08:37,119 --> 01:08:40,640
amendment for plan development 173, Robeson Ranch.

1213
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:44,289
This is to permit the blending of residential uses within

1214
01:08:44,289 --> 01:08:45,640
the land use plan.

1215
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:51,279
Originally, the public hearing was heard on the October 12

1216
01:08:51,279 --> 01:08:55,640
th P&Z meeting and it was continued to tonight.

1217
01:08:55,640 --> 01:09:00,229
The subject property is located on Robeson Ranch Road, 35W,

1218
01:09:00,229 --> 01:09:01,640
west of 35W.

1219
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:08,640
35W is about right here and here's Robeson Ranch Road.

1220
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:09,640
All right.

1221
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:10,640
This is a plan development.

1222
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:14,279
The current Denton development code does not permit PDs

1223
01:09:14,279 --> 01:09:18,199
except for a few left from prior to the adoption of the

1224
01:09:18,199 --> 01:09:20,640
2002 Denton development code.

1225
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:25,159
So when we analyze a PD, when we look at it, we look at the

1226
01:09:25,159 --> 01:09:29,640
1991 code and the requirements within it.

1227
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:33,800
That 1991 code did permit PDs and it was a two-step process

1228
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:36,640
, the concept plan and then a detail plan.

1229
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:40,899
The concept plan for Robeson Ranch was approved in 1999 and

1230
01:09:40,899 --> 01:09:45,789
it did include provisions to provide flexibility and a

1231
01:09:45,789 --> 01:09:49,640
variety of housing options within the plan development.

1232
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:53,640
It also included five residential uses.

1233
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:57,239
Three of those, the single-family luxury, the single-family

1234
01:09:57,239 --> 01:10:00,819
Premier and the single-family Casita, were all single-

1235
01:10:00,819 --> 01:10:02,640
family detached homes.

1236
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:08,189
The single-family villa is a two-family attached, so what

1237
01:10:08,189 --> 01:10:12,640
we normally think of as a duplex is a single-family villa.

1238
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:15,619
And then multi-family too, that is the multi-family

1239
01:10:15,619 --> 01:10:18,779
component or it would also include maybe something like

1240
01:10:18,779 --> 01:10:21,640
nursing homes or assisted living facilities.

1241
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:25,430
So those are the five residential uses included in that

1242
01:10:25,430 --> 01:10:26,640
concept plan.

1243
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:30,239
After the concept plan comes the detail plan and it

1244
01:10:30,239 --> 01:10:33,640
provides maybe where those uses are going to go.

1245
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:35,859
And the detail plans for Robeson Ranch, there have been

1246
01:10:35,859 --> 01:10:39,640
several of them, the most recent being 2011.

1247
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:42,569
And that depicted the precise locations of those

1248
01:10:42,569 --> 01:10:44,640
residential land use categories.

1249
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:50,960
And that included 63 clustered single-family villas, which

1250
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:52,640
is the duplex.

1251
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:57,640
So we'll take a look at that 2011 land use plan.

1252
01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:00,640
As you can see, the yellow was the single-family Casita.

1253
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:02,640
Those were the traditional lots.

1254
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:06,640
The Premier lots, the single-family Premier with a gray.

1255
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:08,640
This little blue was the Preserve lots.

1256
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:09,640
Those were the largest lots.

1257
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:14,109
And then down here in the corner, clustered on an arterial

1258
01:11:14,109 --> 01:11:18,640
were the 63 duplexes, the single-family villas.

1259
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:25,079
On October 12th, you were presented the proposed land use

1260
01:11:25,079 --> 01:11:29,640
plan that reallocated all of those residential uses

1261
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:33,640
and grouped them under one use and that'd be residential.

1262
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:37,859
So all that yellow, any of those residential land uses,

1263
01:11:37,859 --> 01:11:43,420
except for MF2, multifamily 2, could be permitted within

1264
01:11:43,420 --> 01:11:45,640
that yellow area.

1265
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:51,880
And so that proposal on October 12th included that yellow

1266
01:11:51,880 --> 01:11:53,640
area, the residential area,

1267
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:56,119
would include the single-family luxury, the single-family

1268
01:11:56,119 --> 01:11:58,640
Premier, the single-family Casita,

1269
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:02,640
and the single-family villas all within that yellow area.

1270
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:06,949
It permitted a maximum of 1,200 dwelling units for the du

1271
01:12:06,949 --> 01:12:08,640
plexes, for the SFV.

1272
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:12,869
And then it also addressed the multifamily 2 and that that

1273
01:12:12,869 --> 01:12:17,090
wasn't, if it wasn't depicted in that land use plan and it

1274
01:12:17,090 --> 01:12:17,640
wasn't,

1275
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:20,920
then any multifamily would come forward, would have to have

1276
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:26,960
a plan development amendment, much like what you're hearing

1277
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:28,640
tonight.

1278
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:33,109
So during the discussion on October 12th, a lot of concerns

1279
01:12:33,109 --> 01:12:36,300
were raised, not only by the P&Z, but also by the

1280
01:12:36,300 --> 01:12:38,640
neighborhood and the residents.

1281
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:41,649
And so in order to address those concerns, P&Z had some

1282
01:12:41,649 --> 01:12:42,640
suggestions.

1283
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:48,170
First, to reduce the number of permitted single-family vill

1284
01:12:48,170 --> 01:12:52,640
as to 600, to require that the duplexes be clustered

1285
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:54,640
together,

1286
01:12:54,640 --> 01:12:58,210
to provide a buffer or transition areas between those

1287
01:12:58,210 --> 01:13:02,640
single-family detached residential uses and the duplexes,

1288
01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:05,789
to prohibit the duplexes from facing a single-family

1289
01:13:05,789 --> 01:13:10,220
detached home, and then also possibly providing for general

1290
01:13:10,220 --> 01:13:13,640
locations for those duplexes.

1291
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:19,069
So those are some suggestions that P&Z made and charged the

1292
01:13:19,069 --> 01:13:23,640
applicant to go back and make some revisions.

1293
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:27,899
The applicant did make some revisions that this is the

1294
01:13:27,899 --> 01:13:31,640
proposed land use plan that they sent to staff.

1295
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:37,640
And it retains that the SFL, the SFP, the SFC, and the SFV,

1296
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:41,090
so those four residential land use categories, would still

1297
01:13:41,090 --> 01:13:43,640
all be permitted in the yellow areas.

1298
01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:47,619
Still retain that maximum 1200 dwelling units and once

1299
01:13:47,619 --> 01:13:50,640
again, keep those provisions for the MF2.

1300
01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:55,550
But what they did change is they removed the areas outlined

1301
01:13:55,550 --> 01:13:57,640
in blue from the request,

1302
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:02,960
so that those would fall back to previous detailed plan

1303
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:06,640
requirements, so that they would,

1304
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:12,260
the new amendment would only apply to those outside of the

1305
01:14:12,260 --> 01:14:13,640
blue area.

1306
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:17,520
Staff did approach the applicant about some additional

1307
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:21,310
requirements that were brought up by the Planning and Z

1308
01:14:21,310 --> 01:14:22,640
oning Commission,

1309
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:27,640
and they declined to move forward with those.

1310
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:30,720
So considerations we looked at are the criteria for

1311
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:34,430
approval that are in that 1991 code, first that it complies

1312
01:14:34,430 --> 01:14:35,640
with the general concept plan.

1313
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:40,109
This proposal does comply with the general concept plan and

1314
01:14:40,109 --> 01:14:44,439
that it does emphasize the flexibility and variety embedded

1315
01:14:44,439 --> 01:14:45,640
within that.

1316
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:48,229
Provides a compatible arrangement for buildings and land

1317
01:14:48,229 --> 01:14:50,329
uses that would not adversely affect adjoining

1318
01:14:50,329 --> 01:14:52,640
neighborhoods or properties outside the plan.

1319
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:56,550
While there is no perceived impact for the request on

1320
01:14:56,550 --> 01:15:00,640
properties outside of the Robeson Ranch community,

1321
01:15:00,640 --> 01:15:04,510
it would be difficult to ascertain the impact of the

1322
01:15:04,510 --> 01:15:09,010
increased number of villas due to that, you know, the lack

1323
01:15:09,010 --> 01:15:11,640
of separation or delineation between those products.

1324
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:16,630
So it provides adequate and safe circulation for vehicular

1325
01:15:16,630 --> 01:15:17,640
traffic.

1326
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:21,560
Since this request does not include an increase in the

1327
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:23,640
number of dwelling units,

1328
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:28,920
it would maintain the existing number, the 6037 dwelling

1329
01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:31,640
units approved in 2011.

1330
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:34,739
It would just reallocate where those uses would or what

1331
01:15:34,739 --> 01:15:36,640
types of uses those would be.

1332
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:41,640
There's not an anticipated resulting increase in traffic.

1333
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:44,329
And in substantial compliance with the landscape sign,

1334
01:15:44,329 --> 01:15:47,189
subdivision, other regulations of the city, the plan is in

1335
01:15:47,189 --> 01:15:48,640
compliance with all of those.

1336
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:52,739
So just while planning, it does not have an objection to

1337
01:15:52,739 --> 01:15:53,640
the request.

1338
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:57,800
In light of those discussions at the October 12th meeting

1339
01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:00,640
and discussions with the neighborhood,

1340
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:05,359
those additional conditions or similar conditions that PNZ

1341
01:16:05,359 --> 01:16:10,039
suggested on October 12th to reduce any impacts could be

1342
01:16:10,039 --> 01:16:13,640
considered appropriate.

1343
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:15,640
Public notification was sent out.

1344
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:20,640
Since the October 12th meeting, I did receive a few more

1345
01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:22,640
letters and responses.

1346
01:16:22,640 --> 01:16:27,640
We have 31 in opposition, 44 in favor and 19 neutral.

1347
01:16:27,640 --> 01:16:32,630
So based upon the criteria for approval, staff recommends

1348
01:16:32,630 --> 01:16:34,640
approval of the request

1349
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:38,430
and consistent with the PNZ recommendations on the October

1350
01:16:38,430 --> 01:16:39,640
12th meeting.

1351
01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:45,640
I'll stand for any questions and the applicant is here.

1352
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:56,640
Any questions for staff?

1353
01:16:56,640 --> 01:16:58,640
Well, I'll ask a question then.

1354
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:02,079
Do we have anywhere else in the city of Denton in our other

1355
01:17:02,079 --> 01:17:06,199
zoning categories that we intermix duplexes and single

1356
01:17:06,199 --> 01:17:06,640
family just side by side?

1357
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:13,640
However, we do that.

1358
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:16,060
In maybe one or two of the neighborhood residential zoning

1359
01:17:16,060 --> 01:17:20,720
districts, we do permit duplexes, but there are

1360
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:21,640
requirements,

1361
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:24,100
there are limitations based upon that, that they can't be

1362
01:17:24,100 --> 01:17:25,640
on the edge of the neighborhood.

1363
01:17:25,640 --> 01:17:29,430
So there are some limitations to where those duplexes could

1364
01:17:29,430 --> 01:17:32,220
go and that they would each side would have to be on their

1365
01:17:32,220 --> 01:17:33,640
own separate platted lot.

1366
01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:39,640
So I believe that's in our four, but yeah.

1367
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:44,640
Do we have any areas with 1,200 of them, 1,200 duplexes?

1368
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:46,640
Not that I'm aware of.

1369
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:50,640
So it's a small area then?

1370
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:51,640
That this would be a--

1371
01:17:51,640 --> 01:17:54,789
The couple of places you say that we do allow that, they

1372
01:17:54,789 --> 01:17:56,770
are fairly small in number then in comparison to what's

1373
01:17:56,770 --> 01:17:57,640
being asked here?

1374
01:17:57,640 --> 01:17:58,640
Yes, sir.

1375
01:17:58,640 --> 01:17:59,640
Okay, great.

1376
01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:04,640
Thank you.

1377
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:11,210
If the applicants here would like to speak or present your

1378
01:18:11,210 --> 01:18:16,640
project, please come forward at this time.

1379
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:20,239
And then so far I've got two cards in to speak that I will

1380
01:18:20,239 --> 01:18:22,640
recognize after the applicant.

1381
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:28,920
So if anyone else would like to speak on this item, please

1382
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:31,640
fill out a card for us.

1383
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:32,640
Good evening.

1384
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:35,789
My name is Steve Soriano and I'm here on behalf of Ropes

1385
01:18:35,789 --> 01:18:36,640
and Ranch.

1386
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:38,640
Do you guys do the address thing here?

1387
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:39,640
Please.

1388
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:45,439
Okay, my address is 9532 East Riggs Road, Sun Lakes,

1389
01:18:45,439 --> 01:18:46,640
Arizona.

1390
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:47,640
I don't have much of a presentation.

1391
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:52,109
I did have the opportunity to watch a work session earlier

1392
01:18:52,109 --> 01:18:56,710
today and there were instances where I wanted to--where I

1393
01:18:56,710 --> 01:18:59,119
said things to the computer saying, well, that's not

1394
01:18:59,119 --> 01:19:00,640
exactly right, that's not exactly right.

1395
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:04,350
So I don't have much of a presentation beyond what staff

1396
01:19:04,350 --> 01:19:05,640
has presented.

1397
01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:08,220
Other than to point out that we've been working with the

1398
01:19:08,220 --> 01:19:09,640
city now for 20 years.

1399
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:12,640
There's been a lot of give and take on this master plan.

1400
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:15,989
We work with the homeowners and it's an ever increasing

1401
01:19:15,989 --> 01:19:19,510
number of homeowners. We're now up to about 1,900 residents

1402
01:19:19,510 --> 01:19:20,640
within the community.

1403
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:25,920
All 1,900 of the residents were notified either by staff,

1404
01:19:25,920 --> 01:19:31,029
by mail, staff by certified mail, or they were invited to

1405
01:19:31,029 --> 01:19:35,640
two open houses that we held on the site.

1406
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:39,739
They were invited by email and by a message board that's

1407
01:19:39,739 --> 01:19:41,640
within the community.

1408
01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:47,250
So 1,900 people or 1,900 homes worth of people have been

1409
01:19:47,250 --> 01:19:51,609
apprised of this and have had the opportunity to object, to

1410
01:19:51,609 --> 01:19:54,640
support or to show up here tonight.

1411
01:19:54,640 --> 01:19:57,960
We did have a second meeting after your last P&Z meeting

1412
01:19:57,960 --> 01:19:59,640
where you continued it.

1413
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:02,640
We had a second meeting within the community.

1414
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:07,630
There were 200ish, maybe 225ish people that showed up and

1415
01:20:07,630 --> 01:20:11,640
some people had concerns and we tried to address them.

1416
01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:16,920
Some people had some concerns and we were unable to solve

1417
01:20:16,920 --> 01:20:22,640
them, but we tried.

1418
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:27,109
The whole community is actually going to be about 6,500,

1419
01:20:27,109 --> 01:20:31,640
maybe 7,000, somewhere about 6,500 homes.

1420
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:36,640
So to address your questions to staff leading up to this,

1421
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:44,420
the number of villas within the community, I would look at

1422
01:20:44,420 --> 01:20:47,640
it as a percentage rather than saying the absolute number.

1423
01:20:47,640 --> 01:20:49,989
Or I would ask that you look at it as a percentage rather

1424
01:20:49,989 --> 01:20:52,630
than the absolute number because as a percentage it's not a

1425
01:20:52,630 --> 01:20:53,640
very large amount.

1426
01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:56,600
The only other fact that, staff has done an excellent job

1427
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:59,640
presenting it to you, I've got no complaints with it.

1428
01:20:59,640 --> 01:21:04,100
The only fact that you guys don't know is that the average

1429
01:21:04,100 --> 01:21:09,640
price of the villas we've sold so far was $277,000.

1430
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:14,170
And there's been some insinuations by some people that the

1431
01:21:14,170 --> 01:21:17,899
villas are lesser than the traditions or the premiers of

1432
01:21:17,899 --> 01:21:18,640
the estates.

1433
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:21,640
And I just wanted to tell you that no they're not.

1434
01:21:21,640 --> 01:21:26,640
They're actually $277,000 average closing price so far.

1435
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:29,720
And the people that live in them are just as nice as the

1436
01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:33,640
people that would live in traditions, premiers, or estates.

1437
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:38,460
With that, I'd like to answer any questions you may have

1438
01:21:38,460 --> 01:21:41,640
and hopefully get you to vote yes.

1439
01:21:46,640 --> 01:21:47,640
>> Got a few questions for you.

1440
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:49,640
Commissioner Sullivan.

1441
01:21:49,640 --> 01:21:55,640
>> Yes, I would like to thank you all for the green button.

1442
01:21:55,640 --> 01:21:56,640
Sorry about that.

1443
01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:59,510
I would like to express my appreciation for coming back

1444
01:21:59,510 --> 01:22:01,640
with the plan that you all submitted.

1445
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:04,960
I think it is far superior than it was when you put in the

1446
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:07,770
blue line and anything inside the blue line was not going

1447
01:22:07,770 --> 01:22:08,640
to be affected.

1448
01:22:08,640 --> 01:22:14,329
I think that eased a lot of people's concerns about coming

1449
01:22:14,329 --> 01:22:18,529
in and using vacant lots to put duplexes in the middle of a

1450
01:22:18,529 --> 01:22:19,640
neighborhood.

1451
01:22:19,640 --> 01:22:23,640
And so I appreciate the work that you did with that.

1452
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:27,739
However, there are still some issues that I've heard from

1453
01:22:27,739 --> 01:22:31,640
people that, and I don't know if the blue line is a hard,

1454
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:36,250
fast line that this is the line in the sand, so to speak,

1455
01:22:36,250 --> 01:22:38,640
that's not going to move.

1456
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:46,199
But for example, on the map, block 25, there's an area

1457
01:22:46,199 --> 01:22:51,010
there that is outside the blue line that is actually off of

1458
01:22:51,010 --> 01:22:52,640
Ambrosia Lane.

1459
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:57,640
And right before the golf course.

1460
01:22:57,640 --> 01:23:00,640
And yes, exactly.

1461
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:06,420
So that area that right now is, has been depicted as the

1462
01:23:06,420 --> 01:23:09,640
premier homes, I believe.

1463
01:23:09,640 --> 01:23:13,739
And that's one of the concerns that I've heard from about

1464
01:23:13,739 --> 01:23:18,100
four people on that street that they told us it was going

1465
01:23:18,100 --> 01:23:21,640
to be premier and now could be whatever they want it to be.

1466
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:25,210
And I think that's a concern that instead of using the golf

1467
01:23:25,210 --> 01:23:26,640
course as the buffer,

1468
01:23:26,640 --> 01:23:30,430
that that area is now in yellow so that it could be

1469
01:23:30,430 --> 01:23:33,640
whatever you all wanted to put there.

1470
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:36,810
And that's not what people were told when they bought the

1471
01:23:36,810 --> 01:23:37,640
property.

1472
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:39,640
And so that's a concern.

1473
01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:43,399
So I mean, is that, again, is there leeway in y'all's

1474
01:23:43,399 --> 01:23:46,640
planning that can allow for things like that?

1475
01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:48,640
Or how is that going to be addressed?

1476
01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:52,640
Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Sullivan, for the question.

1477
01:23:52,640 --> 01:23:56,789
And to answer that question specifically, I just spoke with

1478
01:23:56,789 --> 01:24:00,350
the planner and we're willing to draw the blue line across

1479
01:24:00,350 --> 01:24:01,640
those three lots.

1480
01:24:01,640 --> 01:24:06,920
So if the camera can zoom in, you'll see a gray area on

1481
01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:10,640
this map that represents open space.

1482
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:12,640
And this map is in your material.

1483
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:18,640
So it's not for the people in the audience.

1484
01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:20,640
This is the area you're talking about.

1485
01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:23,140
These are the three lots that you have a question about,

1486
01:24:23,140 --> 01:24:23,640
right?

1487
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:26,640
Well, those are three.

1488
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:29,640
But then if you go on the other side of the blue line,

1489
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:33,640
right there where the number 25 is.

1490
01:24:33,640 --> 01:24:36,640
Yeah. The unit you're talking about is the north of 25.

1491
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:38,640
And I think it's called 25-2.

1492
01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:42,819
It's that single street that has unit 25 on the south side

1493
01:24:42,819 --> 01:24:45,640
and has golf course on the north side.

1494
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:45,640
Yes.

1495
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:51,640
We would agree to alter the line to take that unit 25-2

1496
01:24:51,640 --> 01:24:56,640
under the prohibition of no villas.

1497
01:24:56,640 --> 01:25:00,550
I understand that there's people that live in 25 that don't

1498
01:25:00,550 --> 01:25:02,640
want traditions behind them.

1499
01:25:02,640 --> 01:25:06,920
So we would agree to take that blue line and move it to

1500
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:09,640
include unit 25-22.

1501
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:10,640
Just move it up.

1502
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:15,359
Because again, in the last town hall meeting, I think that

1503
01:25:15,359 --> 01:25:18,859
was probably the number one question I asked was what's

1504
01:25:18,859 --> 01:25:19,640
going to be behind me?

1505
01:25:19,640 --> 01:25:21,640
A lot of people asked that.

1506
01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:23,640
And that's really what I think is the biggest concern.

1507
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:24,640
Okay.

1508
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:26,640
We'll take 25-2 out.

1509
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:29,039
And then most of the other blue line is either separated by

1510
01:25:29,039 --> 01:25:30,640
a major boulevard or a golf course.

1511
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:36,579
So if that addresses your concern, the name of that unit is

1512
01:25:36,579 --> 01:25:37,640
25-2.

1513
01:25:37,640 --> 01:25:42,340
And we'll agree to put the blue line prohibition against

1514
01:25:42,340 --> 01:25:47,640
villas on the north side of 25-2 against the golf course,

1515
01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:50,640
solving that concern.

1516
01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:52,640
Perfect. Thank you.

1517
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:55,640
Thank you, sir.

1518
01:25:55,640 --> 01:25:56,640
Commissioner Rossell.

1519
01:25:56,640 --> 01:25:58,640
Thank you, Chair.

1520
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:02,779
So I appreciate the context of the explanation about the

1521
01:26:02,779 --> 01:26:04,640
villas in terms of price and quality.

1522
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:08,739
From the information I've received, both from individuals

1523
01:26:08,739 --> 01:26:12,670
writing in as well as public testimony from last meeting,

1524
01:26:12,670 --> 01:26:14,640
it seems like there's high praise for the villas.

1525
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:16,640
I haven't heard any question about the quality.

1526
01:26:16,640 --> 01:26:17,640
And maybe I'm just out of it.

1527
01:26:17,640 --> 01:26:20,260
But there's people who actually were testifying to the

1528
01:26:20,260 --> 01:26:22,640
quality and actually wanting to get into one.

1529
01:26:22,640 --> 01:26:25,640
So I think the quality for the villas is there.

1530
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:30,140
I heard the issues of being next to or adjacent to a duplex

1531
01:26:30,140 --> 01:26:33,640
type structure apart from the quality.

1532
01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:37,279
Someone has a nice big loft, a nice house, and you have the

1533
01:26:37,279 --> 01:26:39,640
ability to one off, put a duplex.

1534
01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:44,920
So I was the one last meeting who brought up the idea of cl

1535
01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:46,640
ustering them.

1536
01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:50,640
And it seems like that request was declined.

1537
01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:56,619
So my question to you is, do you envision ever building one

1538
01:26:56,619 --> 01:27:01,270
unit of a villa interspersed with other lots, your premier

1539
01:27:01,270 --> 01:27:02,640
lots, your luxury lots?

1540
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:03,640
Would you do that?

1541
01:27:03,640 --> 01:27:05,640
No.

1542
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:07,640
That makes sense to me.

1543
01:27:07,640 --> 01:27:11,430
So I'm curious of why then if you wouldn't do that

1544
01:27:11,430 --> 01:27:15,819
inherently, you wouldn't agree to provide some assurance to

1545
01:27:15,819 --> 01:27:19,640
the residents to build in a cluster of four, eight, twelve.

1546
01:27:19,640 --> 01:27:22,640
Why wouldn't you agree to cluster them?

1547
01:27:22,640 --> 01:27:25,640
Well, maybe we can agree to that.

1548
01:27:25,640 --> 01:27:26,640
It depends.

1549
01:27:26,640 --> 01:27:29,380
I don't know what a cluster is because cluster is not a

1550
01:27:29,380 --> 01:27:32,640
defined term within our within our PD or within anything.

1551
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:34,960
But if you look at the plan and I know I just asked for it

1552
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:35,640
to zoom in.

1553
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:37,520
If you zoom back out, you'll see that everything's a

1554
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:38,640
numbered neighborhood.

1555
01:27:38,640 --> 01:27:40,640
And then there's just logical.

1556
01:27:40,640 --> 01:27:45,630
There's individual neighborhoods that are defined as unit

1557
01:27:45,630 --> 01:27:46,640
numbers.

1558
01:27:46,640 --> 01:27:54,310
Okay. We'll agree not to mix villas and other within the

1559
01:27:54,310 --> 01:27:57,960
same units, which is how we plan on addressing one of the

1560
01:27:57,960 --> 01:28:03,569
concerns, which is no villas facing a premier tradition or

1561
01:28:03,569 --> 01:28:04,640
estate.

1562
01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:08,319
And that's how we also plan on addressing that there'll be

1563
01:28:08,319 --> 01:28:11,640
no villas next to a tradition premier or estate.

1564
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:16,640
So I don't know what a cluster is exactly. We call them

1565
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:16,640
villages or unit numbers.

1566
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:18,640
But I think you're getting what you asked for.

1567
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:22,340
I think we are okay with it because what we will commit to

1568
01:28:22,340 --> 01:28:26,199
is that there'll be no mixing of traditions in the same

1569
01:28:26,199 --> 01:28:27,640
units as same plats.

1570
01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:31,279
And the plats come before you, by the way, the plats come

1571
01:28:31,279 --> 01:28:33,640
before you before they get to go to the next stage.

1572
01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:37,350
But there'll be no traditions mixed with premieres. I'm

1573
01:28:37,350 --> 01:28:41,199
sorry. There'll be no villas mixed with premieres,

1574
01:28:41,199 --> 01:28:42,640
traditions or estates.

1575
01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:46,640
That's extremely helpful. Thank you.

1576
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:47,640
Commissioner Taylor.

1577
01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:48,640
Thank you, Chair.

1578
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:54,010
So I made a good chunk of the recommendation last time

1579
01:28:54,010 --> 01:28:59,720
about let's lay down in this amendment to the PD some text

1580
01:28:59,720 --> 01:29:05,640
that describes what the rules would be for placement.

1581
01:29:05,640 --> 01:29:11,010
So you've had a month to write any rule you wanted and you

1582
01:29:11,010 --> 01:29:16,659
came back with exactly what you came here with minus a blue

1583
01:29:16,659 --> 01:29:18,640
line a month ago.

1584
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:24,460
So I don't know if we need to do we need to wait another

1585
01:29:24,460 --> 01:29:30,510
month and get the text that you would agree to because we

1586
01:29:30,510 --> 01:29:34,640
don't really want to write a rule up here from the DS.

1587
01:29:34,640 --> 01:29:39,109
And that would have unintended consequences probably for

1588
01:29:39,109 --> 01:29:41,640
for both residents and for you.

1589
01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:45,789
So we would much prefer you to write the rule that's amen

1590
01:29:45,789 --> 01:29:50,640
able to you that includes these protections of clustering.

1591
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:53,510
Maybe no unit will be mixed if that's if that's how you

1592
01:29:53,510 --> 01:29:55,640
define it or how you want to build it.

1593
01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:58,899
You know, to me, I would say some of these units are really

1594
01:29:58,899 --> 01:30:01,869
big and you might actually be able to say half the unit

1595
01:30:01,869 --> 01:30:04,640
will be, you know, villas and half won't.

1596
01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:07,220
And here's how we'll, you know, provide a buffer between

1597
01:30:07,220 --> 01:30:07,640
them.

1598
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:11,750
You know, so I'm kind of surprised that you're saying

1599
01:30:11,750 --> 01:30:15,970
tonight to us that you will unit by unit build all villas

1600
01:30:15,970 --> 01:30:18,640
or all of a different product.

1601
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:23,630
Also, following on Commissioner Sullivan's question, you're

1602
01:30:23,630 --> 01:30:28,590
talking about unit 24 and 25, I believe, how people living

1603
01:30:28,590 --> 01:30:31,640
in 24 are worried about what might go into 25.

1604
01:30:31,640 --> 01:30:35,220
That was that that area that he asked the blue line be

1605
01:30:35,220 --> 01:30:36,640
extended around.

1606
01:30:36,640 --> 01:30:41,149
I think I think he asked about 25 and the unnumbered unit

1607
01:30:41,149 --> 01:30:45,640
just north of 25, which is also known as 25 to.

1608
01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:48,380
OK, I guess the map I'm looking at doesn't indicate a split

1609
01:30:48,380 --> 01:30:48,640
.

1610
01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:51,640
So now that makes sense.

1611
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:56,819
But if you look at, say, unit 27, one and 27 to 27 one

1612
01:30:56,819 --> 01:31:00,890
builds first just on the other side of the golf course

1613
01:31:00,890 --> 01:31:06,510
there, the people that live there might suddenly get duplex

1614
01:31:06,510 --> 01:31:08,640
es in their backyard.

1615
01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:12,220
And so so we're by drawing the blue line, you're saying

1616
01:31:12,220 --> 01:31:15,869
basically this is the only area where people can know what

1617
01:31:15,869 --> 01:31:17,640
to expect behind them.

1618
01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:20,640
Well, I'm sorry.

1619
01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:23,710
If you ever saw, I mean, I love the blue line basically

1620
01:31:23,710 --> 01:31:26,640
represents where homes have been sold already.

1621
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:31,220
The idea is that anybody that buys in the future will know

1622
01:31:31,220 --> 01:31:35,689
that there may be other ropes and homes in their in their

1623
01:31:35,689 --> 01:31:37,640
in their backyard.

1624
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:40,569
I to address your concern about another delay, we've gone

1625
01:31:40,569 --> 01:31:43,640
over six months now without any sales and villas.

1626
01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:47,640
And while that's not your problem, it zero sales is really,

1627
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:49,640
really bad for a community.

1628
01:31:49,640 --> 01:31:53,640
And we would not like a delay, a further delay of any.

1629
01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:55,640
We've been working with staff for a long time.

1630
01:31:55,640 --> 01:31:59,340
Some of the staff is has moved on, but we would definitely

1631
01:31:59,340 --> 01:32:00,640
not like a delay.

1632
01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:03,789
We would like we would like to vote this this evening if

1633
01:32:03,789 --> 01:32:04,640
possible.

1634
01:32:04,640 --> 01:32:07,220
As far as people knowing what's going to be in their back

1635
01:32:07,220 --> 01:32:10,770
yards, if you're outside the blue line, you already had a

1636
01:32:10,770 --> 01:32:13,640
variability of whether they were going to be traditions,

1637
01:32:13,640 --> 01:32:14,640
premieres or states.

1638
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:17,670
Now you'll have a variability of traditions, premieres, est

1639
01:32:17,670 --> 01:32:18,640
ates or villas.

1640
01:32:18,640 --> 01:32:21,100
So it's not like there was it's not like there was a

1641
01:32:21,100 --> 01:32:23,640
certainty as to what was going to be behind you.

1642
01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:25,960
I talked with Brian Boylan, who's our sales manager before

1643
01:32:25,960 --> 01:32:29,850
this meeting, and he said that before people buy, they

1644
01:32:29,850 --> 01:32:31,640
always say, hey, what's going to be behind me?

1645
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:36,289
That's a regular question. And he rolls out a map and shows

1646
01:32:36,289 --> 01:32:37,369
them what the unit is and he tells them what the options

1647
01:32:37,369 --> 01:32:37,640
are.

1648
01:32:37,640 --> 01:32:40,640
We'll continue to do that. But there was no certainty.

1649
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:43,989
There's never any certainty beyond your property line of

1650
01:32:43,989 --> 01:32:45,640
what's going to be there.

1651
01:32:45,640 --> 01:32:48,649
We're now offering that certainty by saying we're not going

1652
01:32:48,649 --> 01:32:51,640
to mix villas with traditions, premieres or estates.

1653
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:57,640
So there's more certainty here than there was previously.

1654
01:32:57,640 --> 01:32:59,989
I don't know how else to I don't know how other than people

1655
01:32:59,989 --> 01:33:02,640
asking the question, hey, what's going to be behind me?

1656
01:33:02,640 --> 01:33:06,600
I don't know how else to get them that that level of

1657
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:07,640
comfort.

1658
01:33:07,640 --> 01:33:10,510
So what we're asking for is instead of yellow just being

1659
01:33:10,510 --> 01:33:13,180
traditions, premieres and estates, we're asking if we do

1660
01:33:13,180 --> 01:33:14,640
traditions, premieres, estates and villas.

1661
01:33:14,640 --> 01:33:19,630
And so I believe in your response to Commissioner Roselle,

1662
01:33:19,630 --> 01:33:23,140
you'd said that you would be so you do an entire unit and

1663
01:33:23,140 --> 01:33:25,640
you would be OK with.

1664
01:33:25,640 --> 01:33:28,989
Not having the front facade face the front front facade of

1665
01:33:28,989 --> 01:33:32,409
villas, facing the front facade of other products and then

1666
01:33:32,409 --> 01:33:36,640
not having the sidewall like side by side, not having one.

1667
01:33:36,640 --> 01:33:41,109
Right. So now that does create the way your units are laid

1668
01:33:41,109 --> 01:33:41,640
out.

1669
01:33:41,640 --> 01:33:47,640
You have several units that the last lot of unit 27 to is

1670
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:52,640
next door to the first lot of twenty seven one.

1671
01:33:52,640 --> 01:33:56,210
And so I just want to like, you know, if we are going to be

1672
01:33:56,210 --> 01:33:58,640
writing these rules on the fly up here.

1673
01:33:58,640 --> 01:34:00,640
Well, I don't want to write rules on the fly.

1674
01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:02,640
But what we worked out what we didn't work it out.

1675
01:34:02,640 --> 01:34:06,220
That's not true. What we discussed with staff was having a

1676
01:34:06,220 --> 01:34:09,239
designated buffer between traditions units and non

1677
01:34:09,239 --> 01:34:10,640
traditions units.

1678
01:34:10,640 --> 01:34:12,970
And that would be essentially property or real estate that

1679
01:34:12,970 --> 01:34:13,640
we would eat.

1680
01:34:13,640 --> 01:34:15,640
We would take the cost of those of those buffers.

1681
01:34:15,640 --> 01:34:18,640
Well, how big do those buffers need to be?

1682
01:34:18,640 --> 01:34:23,699
The depth of a tradition lot, excuse me, the depth of a

1683
01:34:23,699 --> 01:34:28,680
villa lot is ten, maybe 15 feet shorter than that of a

1684
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:29,640
tradition lot.

1685
01:34:29,640 --> 01:34:32,550
So for a lot of people, as Commissioner Sullivan said, a

1686
01:34:32,550 --> 01:34:34,640
lot of people live in their backyard.

1687
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:36,829
They live on their back patio, the barbecues, you know,

1688
01:34:36,829 --> 01:34:38,640
watching the sunset, that kind of thing.

1689
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:42,210
So the only difference between a villa and a tradition

1690
01:34:42,210 --> 01:34:44,640
might be 10 or 15 feet in depth.

1691
01:34:44,640 --> 01:34:48,430
We'll agree to a 20 foot buffer on top of whatever the

1692
01:34:48,430 --> 01:34:49,640
normal buffer is.

1693
01:34:49,640 --> 01:34:53,930
We'll agree to a 20 foot buffer between a villa

1694
01:34:53,930 --> 01:34:58,640
neighborhood and a tradition of premier in a state.

1695
01:34:58,640 --> 01:35:01,779
So it sounds like you've already discussed with staff the

1696
01:35:01,779 --> 01:35:03,640
terms that you would agree to.

1697
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:04,640
Informally.

1698
01:35:04,640 --> 01:35:08,640
Okay. But you didn't bring any here to us.

1699
01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:12,369
We were the ones that requested the amendment, like the

1700
01:35:12,369 --> 01:35:14,640
adjustments to the amendment.

1701
01:35:14,640 --> 01:35:18,640
Okay. That's all my questions. Thank you.

1702
01:35:18,640 --> 01:35:20,640
Commissioner Sullivan.

1703
01:35:20,640 --> 01:35:23,640
I'm just curious, you said no villas had been sold.

1704
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:26,510
How many other homes have been sold during the period of

1705
01:35:26,510 --> 01:35:28,640
time you said no villas had been sold?

1706
01:35:28,640 --> 01:35:32,640
I think we are selling about 25 a month.

1707
01:35:32,640 --> 01:35:33,640
Solds?

1708
01:35:33,640 --> 01:35:40,069
Which is, well, below 25 a month, which is we desperately

1709
01:35:40,069 --> 01:35:42,640
need the villas approved.

1710
01:35:42,640 --> 01:35:45,640
Because we're not making the sales we need to.

1711
01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:49,640
And I don't think anybody in Robeson is anti-villa.

1712
01:35:49,640 --> 01:35:52,640
Because there is, I can see a need for it.

1713
01:35:52,640 --> 01:35:54,640
I may be in one someday.

1714
01:35:54,640 --> 01:35:57,840
But I think it's just the fact that in Robeson the way you

1715
01:35:57,840 --> 01:36:01,640
all have structured things, very well I might add,

1716
01:36:01,640 --> 01:36:04,640
is that neighborhood is important.

1717
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:06,640
Everything goes on in the neighborhood.

1718
01:36:06,640 --> 01:36:11,640
Whether it's card groups, game groups, wine groups,

1719
01:36:11,640 --> 01:36:14,640
everything centers around the neighborhood.

1720
01:36:14,640 --> 01:36:19,640
And when you have a neighborhood that includes the villas

1721
01:36:19,640 --> 01:36:24,350
where a lot of people live there full time, some people don

1722
01:36:24,350 --> 01:36:24,640
't.

1723
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:29,630
So that sort of disrupts that neighborhood atmosphere that

1724
01:36:29,630 --> 01:36:31,640
Robeson is all about.

1725
01:36:31,640 --> 01:36:33,640
And so I think that's, again, the concern.

1726
01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:37,210
And you've addressed that I think to some degree in that no

1727
01:36:37,210 --> 01:36:40,640
unit will have a mixture of villas and regular homes.

1728
01:36:40,640 --> 01:36:43,640
And I think that's positive.

1729
01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:46,510
And so I just think that, again, what has been said is that

1730
01:36:46,510 --> 01:36:49,640
it would have been nice if we had all of that here

1731
01:36:49,640 --> 01:36:52,359
so that we could have it in writing so that we don't vote

1732
01:36:52,359 --> 01:36:54,640
on something that we don't have in writing.

1733
01:36:54,640 --> 01:36:57,250
And then all of a sudden people have amnesia and we don't

1734
01:36:57,250 --> 01:36:58,640
remember what was said.

1735
01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:03,640
And so I think that's the concern that's being voiced.

1736
01:37:03,640 --> 01:37:04,640
I understand.

1737
01:37:04,640 --> 01:37:06,640
I wish.

1738
01:37:06,640 --> 01:37:10,319
You know, like I said, I watched the work session and I'm

1739
01:37:10,319 --> 01:37:15,640
trying to answer the questions that I saw were concerns.

1740
01:37:15,640 --> 01:37:25,329
And I apologize for the delay, but, you know, hopefully we

1741
01:37:25,329 --> 01:37:28,640
can get past that.

1742
01:37:28,640 --> 01:37:29,640
Commissioner Ellis.

1743
01:37:29,640 --> 01:37:30,640
Thank you, Chair.

1744
01:37:30,640 --> 01:37:31,640
Good evening.

1745
01:37:31,640 --> 01:37:33,640
I have several questions.

1746
01:37:33,640 --> 01:37:37,779
I guess let me start out with you asked us to look at the

1747
01:37:37,779 --> 01:37:39,640
villas as a percentage.

1748
01:37:39,640 --> 01:37:46,640
And the way you have, I guess this written, is it 25% of

1749
01:37:46,640 --> 01:37:49,640
that 6,500?

1750
01:37:49,640 --> 01:37:50,640
Yes.

1751
01:37:50,640 --> 01:37:51,640
Okay.

1752
01:37:51,640 --> 01:37:54,640
And where were you originally with villas?

1753
01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:55,640
Zero percent.

1754
01:37:55,640 --> 01:37:58,640
You didn't have a percentage in the original?

1755
01:37:58,640 --> 01:38:02,250
The villas were not in approved use under the PAD or the PD

1756
01:38:02,250 --> 01:38:04,640
, excuse me, 20 years ago.

1757
01:38:04,640 --> 01:38:09,170
But what we discussed with previous city councils and

1758
01:38:09,170 --> 01:38:12,909
previous PNCs is that we would be back in front of you

1759
01:38:12,909 --> 01:38:16,630
multiple times over the next 20, 30, 40 years because

1760
01:38:16,630 --> 01:38:19,640
consumer demands will change.

1761
01:38:19,640 --> 01:38:23,979
And we have been back in front of you, your boards, for

1762
01:38:23,979 --> 01:38:28,060
probably half a dozen times with different changes and

1763
01:38:28,060 --> 01:38:29,640
different modifications.

1764
01:38:29,640 --> 01:38:34,220
And there'll be more as staff pointed out during the

1765
01:38:34,220 --> 01:38:36,640
opening presentation.

1766
01:38:36,640 --> 01:38:39,939
One of the concerns that the community has voiced is multi-

1767
01:38:39,939 --> 01:38:40,640
family.

1768
01:38:40,640 --> 01:38:43,369
Nobody wants to find themselves next door to a three-story

1769
01:38:43,369 --> 01:38:44,640
building by surprise.

1770
01:38:44,640 --> 01:38:49,640
Well, that's MR2.

1771
01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:50,640
MF2, sorry.

1772
01:38:50,640 --> 01:38:52,640
That's MF2.

1773
01:38:52,640 --> 01:38:54,640
And we're not asking for any MF2.

1774
01:38:54,640 --> 01:38:57,640
So we'll be back in front of you someday.

1775
01:38:57,640 --> 01:38:59,640
I don't know when, asking for MF2.

1776
01:38:59,640 --> 01:39:03,640
All we're asking for tonight is these duplex villas.

1777
01:39:03,640 --> 01:39:05,640
And you said you haven't sold any villas.

1778
01:39:05,640 --> 01:39:07,640
Is that because you can't build any villas?

1779
01:39:07,640 --> 01:39:11,539
We don't have any more land approved for it until we get

1780
01:39:11,539 --> 01:39:15,640
through the staff, PNC, and city council process.

1781
01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:16,640
Okay.

1782
01:39:16,640 --> 01:39:19,409
And then I guess a follow-up question to people's concern

1783
01:39:19,409 --> 01:39:21,640
about, namely, their property value.

1784
01:39:21,640 --> 01:39:24,640
I mean, that's really what everybody's concern is.

1785
01:39:24,640 --> 01:39:28,289
In coming into some of these builds, some residents are

1786
01:39:28,289 --> 01:39:30,640
paying lot premiums, correct?

1787
01:39:30,640 --> 01:39:31,640
Absolutely.

1788
01:39:31,640 --> 01:39:32,640
Right.

1789
01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:38,310
So if somebody's paying a lot premium and then suddenly a

1790
01:39:38,310 --> 01:39:43,649
villa is put in their backyard, what are they paying a

1791
01:39:43,649 --> 01:39:44,640
premium for?

1792
01:39:44,640 --> 01:39:48,609
And I understand that going into new construction anywhere

1793
01:39:48,609 --> 01:39:50,640
with vacant land behind you, next to you,

1794
01:39:50,640 --> 01:39:53,350
you don't necessarily know what you're getting, it could be

1795
01:39:53,350 --> 01:39:55,640
sold to another developer at some point,

1796
01:39:55,640 --> 01:39:58,640
another builder who could change things.

1797
01:39:58,640 --> 01:40:00,640
So that I understand.

1798
01:40:00,640 --> 01:40:05,460
But when somebody's paying premium lot and building your

1799
01:40:05,460 --> 01:40:10,640
luxury line of product, they don't expect that,

1800
01:40:10,640 --> 01:40:13,329
and again, a villa is a pretty product and people do want

1801
01:40:13,329 --> 01:40:13,640
it,

1802
01:40:13,640 --> 01:40:18,930
but people who have paid the luxury tag don't necessarily

1803
01:40:18,930 --> 01:40:22,640
want that unknown in their backyard.

1804
01:40:22,640 --> 01:40:26,210
And that's certainly a concern, and I know that has been a

1805
01:40:26,210 --> 01:40:27,640
concern of this commission

1806
01:40:27,640 --> 01:40:32,399
as to why we wanted more designated spaces marked for vill

1807
01:40:32,399 --> 01:40:37,119
as or clusters marked for villas to eliminate some of that

1808
01:40:37,119 --> 01:40:37,640
concern.

1809
01:40:37,640 --> 01:40:44,640
And we didn't get that with the blue line, for sure.

1810
01:40:44,640 --> 01:40:46,640
A couple of answers.

1811
01:40:46,640 --> 01:40:49,640
One is that people do pay lot premiums on the villas.

1812
01:40:49,640 --> 01:40:52,569
I believe that some lot premiums on the villas were six

1813
01:40:52,569 --> 01:40:54,640
figures or larger on some of them.

1814
01:40:54,640 --> 01:40:58,630
Some of them were zero, but some of them were six figures

1815
01:40:58,630 --> 01:40:59,640
or larger.

1816
01:40:59,640 --> 01:41:04,470
A lot premium is generally a function of what it looks out

1817
01:41:04,470 --> 01:41:08,550
over or what it's next to or where it is within the

1818
01:41:08,550 --> 01:41:09,640
community.

1819
01:41:09,640 --> 01:41:14,289
And by putting people on notice that a villa is something

1820
01:41:14,289 --> 01:41:16,640
that could be behind them,

1821
01:41:16,640 --> 01:41:19,640
they'll know that before they make the purchase.

1822
01:41:19,640 --> 01:41:22,390
If there's going to be a villa behind them, they're going

1823
01:41:22,390 --> 01:41:25,189
to know that before they make the purchase, if they ask the

1824
01:41:25,189 --> 01:41:28,640
question, if they choose to ask.

1825
01:41:28,640 --> 01:41:30,640
How would they know that, though?

1826
01:41:30,640 --> 01:41:35,640
They could ask, and we can unroll the plans and show them.

1827
01:41:35,640 --> 01:41:41,130
Because as we slowly work our way north through the

1828
01:41:41,130 --> 01:41:46,010
community, we're planning 18, 24 months before we're

1829
01:41:46,010 --> 01:41:46,640
selling.

1830
01:41:46,640 --> 01:41:49,640
So we'll know what's going to be behind.

1831
01:41:49,640 --> 01:41:53,750
And all of our buyers are a student of to say, well, if

1832
01:41:53,750 --> 01:41:57,640
that's really going to be a golf course, I want to plat.

1833
01:41:57,640 --> 01:42:00,710
I want to sign plat showing me that that's going to be a

1834
01:42:00,710 --> 01:42:01,640
golf course.

1835
01:42:01,640 --> 01:42:06,640
If the design is showing back to back with something else,

1836
01:42:06,640 --> 01:42:09,640
then they know it could be one of the approved uses.

1837
01:42:09,640 --> 01:42:12,640
How many villas are built currently?

1838
01:42:12,640 --> 01:42:15,640
65? 63.

1839
01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:19,640
And how many different groups on this map?

1840
01:42:19,640 --> 01:42:20,640
Presently one.

1841
01:42:20,640 --> 01:42:23,640
OK.

1842
01:42:23,640 --> 01:42:28,640
And it's presently this piece inside the blue line.

1843
01:42:28,640 --> 01:42:30,640
What did I do with my pen?

1844
01:42:30,640 --> 01:42:33,640
See this long, narrow piece?

1845
01:42:33,640 --> 01:42:35,640
So that's currently all villas.

1846
01:42:35,640 --> 01:42:39,210
And the next place we want to go is right over here, the

1847
01:42:39,210 --> 01:42:42,750
yellow one just right across the street from there by the

1848
01:42:42,750 --> 01:42:43,640
dog park.

1849
01:42:43,640 --> 01:42:47,960
And then what we're asking for tonight is we're not asking

1850
01:42:47,960 --> 01:42:51,640
for any increase in the total number of units.

1851
01:42:51,640 --> 01:42:55,909
We're not asking for any more than 600 structures or 1200

1852
01:42:55,909 --> 01:42:57,640
duplexes, whatever nomenclature.

1853
01:42:57,640 --> 01:42:58,640
You know what I mean?

1854
01:42:58,640 --> 01:43:00,640
I want to make sure we're talking about the same fact set.

1855
01:43:00,640 --> 01:43:04,640
So we're asking for 600 structures, AKA 1200 duplexes.

1856
01:43:04,640 --> 01:43:08,640
And we want the ability to do it anywhere on the yellow.

1857
01:43:08,640 --> 01:43:14,279
And in the past, I might have suggested that we probably

1858
01:43:14,279 --> 01:43:18,640
won't do duplexes along the golf course.

1859
01:43:18,640 --> 01:43:21,930
But we're getting-- there's such heavy demand for the du

1860
01:43:21,930 --> 01:43:25,720
plexes within the community from people, couples, singles,

1861
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:26,640
whatever.

1862
01:43:26,640 --> 01:43:27,640
There's such heavy demand.

1863
01:43:27,640 --> 01:43:33,649
And we got the premium within the current section of duplex

1864
01:43:33,649 --> 01:43:39,369
es that we may do duplexes, you know, villas on the golf

1865
01:43:39,369 --> 01:43:40,640
course.

1866
01:43:40,640 --> 01:43:45,640
Thank you.

1867
01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:49,210
Just as housekeeping for our board, we've got two cards to

1868
01:43:49,210 --> 01:43:49,640
speak.

1869
01:43:49,640 --> 01:43:53,640
I know we have some more questions.

1870
01:43:53,640 --> 01:43:56,640
I'm going to ask some at this time.

1871
01:43:56,640 --> 01:43:58,640
I don't have a problem with the villas.

1872
01:43:58,640 --> 01:44:02,220
I understand, Margaret, I'm in the construction business,

1873
01:44:02,220 --> 01:44:03,640
development business.

1874
01:44:03,640 --> 01:44:06,640
So I understand the fluidity of needing to change.

1875
01:44:06,640 --> 01:44:11,470
I'm somewhat really puzzled as to why you all elected with

1876
01:44:11,470 --> 01:44:16,090
all the guidance that we gave at our last meeting to come

1877
01:44:16,090 --> 01:44:19,640
back and essentially put a blue line on

1878
01:44:19,640 --> 01:44:23,359
and not address those in any way and yet then stand before

1879
01:44:23,359 --> 01:44:27,199
us and say we're willing to do the things that we talked

1880
01:44:27,199 --> 01:44:27,640
about.

1881
01:44:27,640 --> 01:44:31,750
As chair, typically we've always tried because as I think

1882
01:44:31,750 --> 01:44:35,840
Commissioner Taylor stated, in the past when we do things

1883
01:44:35,840 --> 01:44:38,640
on the fly, it usually doesn't work out well.

1884
01:44:38,640 --> 01:44:42,210
So we were-- I was hopeful that when you came back to us

1885
01:44:42,210 --> 01:44:46,199
that the questions, concerns, suggestions would be

1886
01:44:46,199 --> 01:44:46,640
addressed.

1887
01:44:46,640 --> 01:44:51,289
And this was a hopefully a pretty straightforward meeting

1888
01:44:51,289 --> 01:44:52,640
this evening.

1889
01:44:52,640 --> 01:44:57,199
Can you tell us why you all chose not to address those in a

1890
01:44:57,199 --> 01:45:00,750
way that could be worked out with staff in a organized

1891
01:45:00,750 --> 01:45:04,640
presentation back before our commission?

1892
01:45:04,640 --> 01:45:08,640
The-- first let me apologize for that, OK?

1893
01:45:08,640 --> 01:45:09,640
I apologize for that.

1894
01:45:09,640 --> 01:45:15,640
I'm sorry that we weren't able to accomplish that.

1895
01:45:15,640 --> 01:45:18,640
We met with the homeowners.

1896
01:45:18,640 --> 01:45:21,640
We answered a lot of questions from homeowners.

1897
01:45:21,640 --> 01:45:26,640
Again, not everybody is convinced.

1898
01:45:26,640 --> 01:45:31,229
One of the requests that P&Z put forward last time was

1899
01:45:31,229 --> 01:45:35,350
specific identification of the units that are going to be

1900
01:45:35,350 --> 01:45:37,659
villas versus the units that are going to be traditions

1901
01:45:37,659 --> 01:45:40,640
versus premieres versus estates versus whatever.

1902
01:45:40,640 --> 01:45:42,640
And we're unable to do that.

1903
01:45:42,640 --> 01:45:44,859
We're unable to do that because we don't know what market

1904
01:45:44,859 --> 01:45:46,989
demand is going to be until we get in there and actually

1905
01:45:46,989 --> 01:45:48,640
topo an area.

1906
01:45:48,640 --> 01:45:52,890
We don't know what it's going to lend itself to on layouts,

1907
01:45:52,890 --> 01:45:55,640
what it's going to lend itself to.

1908
01:45:55,640 --> 01:45:58,970
We're over two miles, maybe three miles from our south

1909
01:45:58,970 --> 01:46:02,640
boundary to our north boundary of our property holdings.

1910
01:46:02,640 --> 01:46:06,350
So the size of this property is different than just

1911
01:46:06,350 --> 01:46:10,640
planning a 60 unit or an 80 unit subdivision.

1912
01:46:10,640 --> 01:46:15,289
We're trying to-- we're circling in on what the development

1913
01:46:15,289 --> 01:46:16,640
is going to be.

1914
01:46:16,640 --> 01:46:19,640
First was the concept plan.

1915
01:46:19,640 --> 01:46:21,640
And this is still the same concept plan.

1916
01:46:21,640 --> 01:46:23,640
Then is the detail plan.

1917
01:46:23,640 --> 01:46:25,640
And then we come to you with plats.

1918
01:46:25,640 --> 01:46:30,409
So you'll have a chance to see the plats before they get

1919
01:46:30,409 --> 01:46:31,640
approved.

1920
01:46:31,640 --> 01:46:34,640
We can't with any certainty say what's going to be where.

1921
01:46:34,640 --> 01:46:37,220
And that's why we weren't able to do that between the last

1922
01:46:37,220 --> 01:46:38,640
meeting and this meeting.

1923
01:46:38,640 --> 01:46:40,640
We can't agree to broad bright lines.

1924
01:46:40,640 --> 01:46:41,640
Bright line.

1925
01:46:41,640 --> 01:46:44,640
No villas next to traditions, premieres, or estates.

1926
01:46:44,640 --> 01:46:47,920
We can agree to bright lines where the definition of next

1927
01:46:47,920 --> 01:46:49,640
to is an extra 20 feet.

1928
01:46:49,640 --> 01:46:51,640
So we can agree to certain bright lines.

1929
01:46:51,640 --> 01:46:58,100
But we don't know how many or where they're going to be

1930
01:46:58,100 --> 01:47:01,640
until we see how sales go.

1931
01:47:01,640 --> 01:47:05,640
So I guess your point is instead of coming back and saying,

1932
01:47:05,640 --> 01:47:07,640
well, maybe instead of doing clusters,

1933
01:47:07,640 --> 01:47:11,640
we're going to do in this unit or that unit, just said,

1934
01:47:11,640 --> 01:47:12,640
will you leave it like it is?

1935
01:47:12,640 --> 01:47:15,640
We'll figure it out essentially.

1936
01:47:15,640 --> 01:47:16,640
No.

1937
01:47:16,640 --> 01:47:21,760
Well, what we're saying is that in the bright yellows, if

1938
01:47:21,760 --> 01:47:23,640
you're buying in the bright yellow,

1939
01:47:23,640 --> 01:47:26,510
and if we, excuse me, if we're going to come back to the

1940
01:47:26,510 --> 01:47:28,640
city with a plat for the bright yellow,

1941
01:47:28,640 --> 01:47:32,739
uses available to it under the detail plan would include

1942
01:47:32,739 --> 01:47:36,640
premieres, estates, villas, and traditions.

1943
01:47:36,640 --> 01:47:38,640
That's what we're asking for.

1944
01:47:38,640 --> 01:47:41,789
We're asking for the areas that are marked in yellow, which

1945
01:47:41,789 --> 01:47:46,640
would exclude the area in the south of the blue line,

1946
01:47:46,640 --> 01:47:52,180
be available to bring a plat forward for consideration for

1947
01:47:52,180 --> 01:47:54,640
any of those four uses.

1948
01:47:54,640 --> 01:47:57,039
And I think when a plat comes before our commission, if it

1949
01:47:57,039 --> 01:48:02,640
meets the criteria that it's specified for,

1950
01:48:02,640 --> 01:48:05,640
then we pretty much are obligated to approve it.

1951
01:48:05,640 --> 01:48:09,640
So if we, to use your point, if you want to do a plat to us

1952
01:48:09,640 --> 01:48:12,640
that we've said you can do any of these four mixes,

1953
01:48:12,640 --> 01:48:16,420
you could do half, quarter of the pod, villas, and whatever

1954
01:48:16,420 --> 01:48:18,640
mix you would want to as long as it's within,

1955
01:48:18,640 --> 01:48:21,770
then it could be essentially it's in compliance and

1956
01:48:21,770 --> 01:48:25,449
according to the detail plan, and we would need to approve

1957
01:48:25,449 --> 01:48:25,640
it,

1958
01:48:25,640 --> 01:48:30,939
essentially if we move this forward the way that it's

1959
01:48:30,939 --> 01:48:34,640
proposed by you all to us tonight.

1960
01:48:34,640 --> 01:48:39,500
But for the caveats that I'm agreeing to now, which is we

1961
01:48:39,500 --> 01:48:43,640
would not mix within units or villages or clusters,

1962
01:48:43,640 --> 01:48:47,880
we would not mix within those units single family and

1963
01:48:47,880 --> 01:48:49,640
attached product.

1964
01:48:49,640 --> 01:48:50,640
Right.

1965
01:48:50,640 --> 01:48:52,640
That's what you're offering now.

1966
01:48:52,640 --> 01:48:57,000
But my point is what you've brought to us, if we approve it

1967
01:48:57,000 --> 01:49:01,470
as is, you can plat it in any configuration that you want

1968
01:49:01,470 --> 01:49:01,640
to.

1969
01:49:01,640 --> 01:49:04,760
And since it is in compliance with the detail plan, we

1970
01:49:04,760 --> 01:49:07,640
would essentially need to approve it because we've already

1971
01:49:07,640 --> 01:49:09,640
given you permission to do so.

1972
01:49:09,640 --> 01:49:15,380
And you're offering now before us kind of on the fly to

1973
01:49:15,380 --> 01:49:20,640
draft some of this and try to make it work out.

1974
01:49:20,640 --> 01:49:26,640
I'm trying to solve the concerns that I've heard.

1975
01:49:26,640 --> 01:49:27,640
Okay.

1976
01:49:27,640 --> 01:49:30,840
I think the concerns are the same ones that were here a

1977
01:49:30,840 --> 01:49:36,640
month ago, and now we're trying to do it on the clock here.

1978
01:49:36,640 --> 01:49:39,640
It figured out.

1979
01:49:39,640 --> 01:49:43,340
I'm somewhat of the opinion that we need to I'm not going

1980
01:49:43,340 --> 01:49:47,670
to make a motion, but I'm just going to state my opinion is

1981
01:49:47,670 --> 01:49:49,640
that we deny it and move it forward to city council.

1982
01:49:49,640 --> 01:49:53,210
You all can draft it all however it needs to be drafted,

1983
01:49:53,210 --> 01:49:57,199
and then it can be approved at that point, and hopefully it

1984
01:49:57,199 --> 01:50:00,640
will be worked out in your best interest.

1985
01:50:00,640 --> 01:50:02,640
I agree with Commissioner Tedder.

1986
01:50:02,640 --> 01:50:06,899
I don't want to be up here drafting policy for your subdiv

1987
01:50:06,899 --> 01:50:11,069
ision that you all have invested a tremendous amount of

1988
01:50:11,069 --> 01:50:11,640
money,

1989
01:50:11,640 --> 01:50:15,260
and you have clients and residents that have invested

1990
01:50:15,260 --> 01:50:19,199
tremendously in it, and we're up here trying to draft

1991
01:50:19,199 --> 01:50:22,869
something that doesn't get drafted correctly, and then we

1992
01:50:22,869 --> 01:50:25,640
're having to fix it later.

1993
01:50:25,640 --> 01:50:27,640
So those are my comments and my questions.

1994
01:50:27,640 --> 01:50:30,640
I appreciate your answers and responses.

1995
01:50:30,640 --> 01:50:33,640
Are there any other questions for the applicant?

1996
01:50:33,640 --> 01:50:38,640
Thank you for your answers and your time.

1997
01:50:38,640 --> 01:50:42,640
I have two cards.

1998
01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:43,640
Okay, I just stay on the board.

1999
01:50:43,640 --> 01:50:44,640
Commissioner Husbeth, I'm sorry.

2000
01:50:44,640 --> 01:50:45,640
No, sir, I didn't.

2001
01:50:45,640 --> 01:50:49,859
I'm going to I want to hear from those that are here to

2002
01:50:49,859 --> 01:50:52,640
speak, and then I'll have a question for you.

2003
01:50:52,640 --> 01:50:55,640
Yes, please.

2004
01:50:55,640 --> 01:50:58,640
Thank you.

2005
01:50:58,640 --> 01:51:01,789
At this time, I just have two cards wishing to speak on

2006
01:51:01,789 --> 01:51:02,640
this item.

2007
01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:05,640
I have Bruce Walker.

2008
01:51:05,640 --> 01:51:12,119
Mr. Walker, if you'd like to come forward, and then the

2009
01:51:12,119 --> 01:51:16,640
other card I have is from Elma Walker.

2010
01:51:16,640 --> 01:51:17,640
Good evening.

2011
01:51:17,640 --> 01:51:22,640
Bruce Walker, 9805 Grandview Drive.

2012
01:51:22,640 --> 01:51:27,760
I live at Ropes and Ranch, and I'm not like Mr. Steve over

2013
01:51:27,760 --> 01:51:28,640
here.

2014
01:51:28,640 --> 01:51:31,640
I'm not against these villas.

2015
01:51:31,640 --> 01:51:35,279
I have some concerns, but this is the first time I've

2016
01:51:35,279 --> 01:51:39,840
looked at this map, and so my comments may be a little bit

2017
01:51:39,840 --> 01:51:44,640
out of context in that I haven't seen this map in a while.

2018
01:51:44,640 --> 01:51:49,199
There's a couple of gas wells on this that were I looked at

2019
01:51:49,199 --> 01:51:56,640
the 2011 map that were marked as gas wells, and let's see,

2020
01:51:56,640 --> 01:52:00,640
this one here and this one here.

2021
01:52:00,640 --> 01:52:08,640
Both of them say now they're -- let's see.

2022
01:52:08,640 --> 01:52:10,640
I apologize.

2023
01:52:10,640 --> 01:52:11,640
Yeah.

2024
01:52:11,640 --> 01:52:17,710
Both of them basically say on the proposed plan, it's a gas

2025
01:52:17,710 --> 01:52:18,640
park.

2026
01:52:18,640 --> 01:52:21,640
It used to say it was on a gas park.

2027
01:52:21,640 --> 01:52:24,640
Now it says it's a future detailed plan, exceptions E.

2028
01:52:24,640 --> 01:52:30,850
The other one says it used to be a gas park. Now it's a

2029
01:52:30,850 --> 01:52:32,239
proposed plan, detail exception F, and I don't know what E

2030
01:52:32,239 --> 01:52:32,640
and F is.

2031
01:52:32,640 --> 01:52:33,640
Okay?

2032
01:52:33,640 --> 01:52:38,810
Up in this far corner up here, there's another -- it used

2033
01:52:38,810 --> 01:52:42,640
to be Biltmore gas plan number 14.

2034
01:52:42,640 --> 01:52:45,640
Now it's future detailed plan exception D.

2035
01:52:45,640 --> 01:52:48,829
So having looked at that and having the old plan, I'm

2036
01:52:48,829 --> 01:52:50,640
wondering what changed.

2037
01:52:50,640 --> 01:53:01,180
Also, we have here this gray area here which basically says

2038
01:53:01,180 --> 01:53:06,640
-- let's see.

2039
01:53:06,640 --> 01:53:10,369
Oh, this was basically supposed to be a clubhouse, and now

2040
01:53:10,369 --> 01:53:12,640
it says future plan exception C.

2041
01:53:12,640 --> 01:53:16,890
So my question was, is the clubhouse still going to be

2042
01:53:16,890 --> 01:53:18,640
built there or not?

2043
01:53:18,640 --> 01:53:22,640
A couple other issues have come up.

2044
01:53:22,640 --> 01:53:28,260
This gas well here, in the meeting when this -- when Chris

2045
01:53:28,260 --> 01:53:33,640
-- Mayor Chris Watts was not mayor but was a councilman,

2046
01:53:33,640 --> 01:53:38,630
that particular gas well was supposed to have 250,000 feet,

2047
01:53:38,630 --> 01:53:41,640
and Mr. Soriano basically --

2048
01:53:41,640 --> 01:53:47,640
Mr. Soriano agreed to make that 250 feet from homes.

2049
01:53:47,640 --> 01:53:51,640
It doesn't show on the map here.

2050
01:53:51,640 --> 01:53:54,789
It slows right next to where it was before, so that makes

2051
01:53:54,789 --> 01:53:59,640
me wonder if that somehow got missed in the translation.

2052
01:53:59,640 --> 01:54:02,220
And the other thing that -- again, none of this affects me

2053
01:54:02,220 --> 01:54:03,640
because I don't live there.

2054
01:54:03,640 --> 01:54:06,640
I live way deep in the blue line.

2055
01:54:06,640 --> 01:54:07,640
Okay?

2056
01:54:07,640 --> 01:54:11,640
This is just me thinking about neighbors of the future.

2057
01:54:11,640 --> 01:54:16,699
The other area of concern is right over here, which is P

2058
01:54:16,699 --> 01:54:17,640
onder.

2059
01:54:17,640 --> 01:54:18,640
Okay?

2060
01:54:18,640 --> 01:54:25,640
There's a major compressor station, waste injection well,

2061
01:54:25,640 --> 01:54:29,640
eight-acre wastewater collection pond,

2062
01:54:29,640 --> 01:54:33,640
and my wonder, even though this is us, that's Ponder.

2063
01:54:33,640 --> 01:54:38,640
How close can homes be to that area safely?

2064
01:54:38,640 --> 01:54:41,520
I don't know what the rules are, but I certainly wouldn't

2065
01:54:41,520 --> 01:54:42,640
want to live there.

2066
01:54:42,640 --> 01:54:44,640
Those are my questions.

2067
01:54:44,640 --> 01:54:45,640
Okay.

2068
01:54:45,640 --> 01:54:52,130
I'll call on staff to see if we can get some answers to

2069
01:54:52,130 --> 01:54:54,640
your questions.

2070
01:54:54,640 --> 01:54:58,640
I think I can answer the question on the grayed-out areas.

2071
01:54:58,640 --> 01:55:01,640
Since the request wasn't a part -- since gas wells weren't

2072
01:55:01,640 --> 01:55:02,640
a part of the request,

2073
01:55:02,640 --> 01:55:04,640
it was just having to do with the residential uses,

2074
01:55:04,640 --> 01:55:07,779
those were grayed out as not a part of the detailed plan or

2075
01:55:07,779 --> 01:55:09,640
the land use plan amendment.

2076
01:55:09,640 --> 01:55:13,840
As far as the compressor station in Ponder, I'm not certain

2077
01:55:13,840 --> 01:55:15,640
about the setbacks.

2078
01:55:15,640 --> 01:55:19,739
I'm not sure if we have any setbacks regarding that, but

2079
01:55:19,739 --> 01:55:20,640
anyway.

2080
01:55:20,640 --> 01:55:21,640
Okay.

2081
01:55:21,640 --> 01:55:25,640
Thank you, Julie.

2082
01:55:25,640 --> 01:55:30,640
I'll call on Emma Walker.

2083
01:55:30,640 --> 01:55:38,640
I have one other card that's been added, Julian Rimsky.

2084
01:55:38,640 --> 01:55:43,640
Emma Walker, 9805 Grandview.

2085
01:55:43,640 --> 01:55:50,640
So that map that he was referring to was 2011, by the way.

2086
01:55:50,640 --> 01:55:54,640
We never did receive anything on this in the mail.

2087
01:55:54,640 --> 01:55:55,640
Okay.

2088
01:55:55,640 --> 01:55:59,640
So I don't know about other people, but we never did.

2089
01:55:59,640 --> 01:56:02,640
So I went to see Julie because I heard about it.

2090
01:56:02,640 --> 01:56:03,640
Okay.

2091
01:56:03,640 --> 01:56:05,640
That shouldn't be happening.

2092
01:56:05,640 --> 01:56:09,359
I wanted to confirm how many two-family units were proposed

2093
01:56:09,359 --> 01:56:09,640
.

2094
01:56:09,640 --> 01:56:11,640
I heard you talking about that.

2095
01:56:11,640 --> 01:56:15,640
And I'd like to suggest that we only give approval for half

2096
01:56:15,640 --> 01:56:17,640
of the two-family --

2097
01:56:17,640 --> 01:56:22,710
or two-family units proposed, the duplexes, including those

2098
01:56:22,710 --> 01:56:23,640
already built.

2099
01:56:23,640 --> 01:56:28,699
And then Robeson to come back to planning to propose the

2100
01:56:28,699 --> 01:56:31,640
last half of those two-family units

2101
01:56:31,640 --> 01:56:37,640
and any other proposed changes at that time.

2102
01:56:37,640 --> 01:56:43,260
I support the P&Z revision proposing the prohibition of the

2103
01:56:43,260 --> 01:56:45,640
front facade of duplexes

2104
01:56:45,640 --> 01:56:50,630
facing the front facade of single-family detached

2105
01:56:50,630 --> 01:56:54,640
residential uses that you came up with.

2106
01:56:54,640 --> 01:56:59,640
I support the P&Z revision proposing the duplexes should be

2107
01:56:59,640 --> 01:57:00,640
clustered together

2108
01:57:00,640 --> 01:57:03,640
in their own sections or small neighborhoods

2109
01:57:03,640 --> 01:57:06,510
and single-family homes in their own sections or

2110
01:57:06,510 --> 01:57:07,640
neighborhoods.

2111
01:57:07,640 --> 01:57:12,109
This protects homeowners in the future from duplexes being

2112
01:57:12,109 --> 01:57:15,640
interspersed with the single-family homes.

2113
01:57:15,640 --> 01:57:22,640
I support the P&Z revision that buffer or transition --

2114
01:57:22,640 --> 01:57:26,960
that have buffer or transition requirements that should

2115
01:57:26,960 --> 01:57:31,640
exist between single-family detached residential uses.

2116
01:57:31,640 --> 01:57:35,239
Now, for example, the current duplex neighborhood is

2117
01:57:35,239 --> 01:57:39,640
separated from single-family homes by the golf course.

2118
01:57:39,640 --> 01:57:42,880
Whether the people on the one side of the golf course that

2119
01:57:42,880 --> 01:57:46,619
have a balcony overlooking the golf course and the duplexes

2120
01:57:46,619 --> 01:57:49,640
knew about that, that's up for grabs.

2121
01:57:49,640 --> 01:57:51,640
Okay.

2122
01:57:51,640 --> 01:57:56,920
I want you to revise that chart, Julie, where the fifth

2123
01:57:56,920 --> 01:58:00,640
choice, the multi-family --

2124
01:58:00,640 --> 01:58:04,640
two- or three-story is still on that list.

2125
01:58:04,640 --> 01:58:05,640
That shouldn't even be on the list.

2126
01:58:05,640 --> 01:58:08,640
It must have caused some confusion in the neighborhood.

2127
01:58:08,640 --> 01:58:12,430
I did see a message on the message board that talked about

2128
01:58:12,430 --> 01:58:17,640
multi-family, and that kind of upsets people.

2129
01:58:17,640 --> 01:58:23,640
Now, so having said all that, I think that in the future

2130
01:58:23,640 --> 01:58:26,050
you're going to be dealing more and more with this kind of

2131
01:58:26,050 --> 01:58:26,640
thing.

2132
01:58:26,640 --> 01:58:29,640
This was a PD before they had MPCs.

2133
01:58:29,640 --> 01:58:33,210
I know all about MPCs because I've been involved with over

2134
01:58:33,210 --> 01:58:34,640
looking that, too.

2135
01:58:34,640 --> 01:58:38,210
We have Hunter Ranch on one side and Cole Ranch on the

2136
01:58:38,210 --> 01:58:41,569
other, and between those two exits on I-35, we will double

2137
01:58:41,569 --> 01:58:43,640
the population in Denton.

2138
01:58:43,640 --> 01:58:46,640
So we are talking about a major, major thing.

2139
01:58:46,640 --> 01:58:50,640
It needs to be handled differently.

2140
01:58:50,640 --> 01:58:52,640
And you're doing a good job.

2141
01:58:52,640 --> 01:58:56,640
So there we go.

2142
01:58:56,640 --> 01:59:01,510
When you were talking about, like, exceptions to that blue

2143
01:59:01,510 --> 01:59:05,489
line thing, and I don't know whether I can -- oh, that's

2144
01:59:05,489 --> 01:59:06,640
how you do it.

2145
01:59:06,640 --> 01:59:08,640
Right over here is another one of those.

2146
01:59:08,640 --> 01:59:11,640
See the indentations?

2147
01:59:11,640 --> 01:59:13,640
Right now there are some houses there.

2148
01:59:13,640 --> 01:59:16,920
And the implication is that it will adhere with that kind

2149
01:59:16,920 --> 01:59:17,640
of thing.

2150
01:59:17,640 --> 01:59:20,930
But at any point in time, you know, across that -- on the

2151
01:59:20,930 --> 01:59:25,640
other side of the blue line, it could be duplexes.

2152
01:59:25,640 --> 01:59:29,210
That may be the person buying across the street didn't know

2153
01:59:29,210 --> 01:59:29,640
about.

2154
01:59:29,640 --> 01:59:32,640
So that is a possibility.

2155
01:59:32,640 --> 01:59:34,640
That's a concern.

2156
01:59:34,640 --> 01:59:38,739
Now, having said that, I will also say that there is a

2157
01:59:38,739 --> 01:59:42,609
possibility my husband and I will move into a duplex

2158
01:59:42,609 --> 01:59:43,640
someday.

2159
01:59:43,640 --> 01:59:45,640
So we are not anti-village.

2160
01:59:45,640 --> 01:59:48,640
We think it's a great idea.

2161
01:59:48,640 --> 01:59:49,640
All right.

2162
01:59:49,640 --> 01:59:53,279
My final comment would be this, that back when they were

2163
01:59:53,279 --> 01:59:57,289
talking about a longer distance from a gas well, Mr. Sur

2164
01:59:57,289 --> 02:00:02,130
iano called a meeting out at Robeson and everybody who could

2165
02:00:02,130 --> 02:00:03,640
attend I'm sure was there.

2166
02:00:03,640 --> 02:00:07,210
And we were basically threatened that they would be pulling

2167
02:00:07,210 --> 02:00:10,640
out of Robeson Ranch if they didn't get this taken care of.

2168
02:00:10,640 --> 02:00:15,350
In fact, that's when the council meeting followed and Chris

2169
02:00:15,350 --> 02:00:19,670
Watts, now our mayor, bartered a deal to have at least a

2170
02:00:19,670 --> 02:00:24,640
250 distance from a house and a gas well pad.

2171
02:00:24,640 --> 02:00:27,640
So we like things in writing.

2172
02:00:27,640 --> 02:00:31,739
And I think that you should require these things in writing

2173
02:00:31,739 --> 02:00:34,640
because otherwise they may not happen.

2174
02:00:34,640 --> 02:00:37,640
You'll be some other people sitting up here.

2175
02:00:37,640 --> 02:00:39,640
I may be dead.

2176
02:00:39,640 --> 02:00:43,420
And I think that we need to take care of this considering

2177
02:00:43,420 --> 02:00:45,640
the size of it for the future.

2178
02:00:45,640 --> 02:00:46,640
Thank you.

2179
02:00:46,640 --> 02:00:54,640
Thank you.

2180
02:00:54,640 --> 02:00:56,640
I have one final card.

2181
02:00:56,640 --> 02:00:58,640
Julianne Rimsky.

2182
02:00:58,640 --> 02:01:02,210
Anyone else who would like to speak on this item, please

2183
02:01:02,210 --> 02:01:05,640
fill out a card and come forward when I call your name.

2184
02:01:05,640 --> 02:01:07,640
Good evening and thank you.

2185
02:01:07,640 --> 02:01:09,640
As I said, my name is Julianne Rimsky.

2186
02:01:09,640 --> 02:01:15,640
I live at 11904 Glenbrook, Robeson resident.

2187
02:01:15,640 --> 02:01:21,340
And if I could hopefully do things with the map

2188
02:01:21,340 --> 02:01:27,399
appropriately, I am going to speak in favor of the way the

2189
02:01:27,399 --> 02:01:30,640
proposal was somewhat presented.

2190
02:01:30,640 --> 02:01:34,739
And the reason I'm saying somewhat is because I did miss

2191
02:01:34,739 --> 02:01:36,640
some of the beginning.

2192
02:01:36,640 --> 02:01:40,220
One of the things in regard to, and I've got nothing to do

2193
02:01:40,220 --> 02:01:43,720
with having been on a zoning board, I'm not a builder

2194
02:01:43,720 --> 02:01:47,640
developer, but just in having studied it.

2195
02:01:47,640 --> 02:01:52,420
When a builder is initially going in, he has to run his

2196
02:01:52,420 --> 02:01:57,640
support system, his streets, his water, his sewer.

2197
02:01:57,640 --> 02:02:01,539
He puts it in as to a certain grid, and then as he's

2198
02:02:01,539 --> 02:02:06,130
developing the rest of the plan, he's going to go further

2199
02:02:06,130 --> 02:02:07,640
out from that.

2200
02:02:07,640 --> 02:02:11,640
In order to say for sure where something is going to go,

2201
02:02:11,640 --> 02:02:15,939
part of that is going to be based on how he's extending his

2202
02:02:15,939 --> 02:02:19,640
water, his sewer, and the electrical going in.

2203
02:02:19,640 --> 02:02:25,640
He needs to do that in what is most economical for himself.

2204
02:02:25,640 --> 02:02:29,270
He's put in the request of putting villas just on the other

2205
02:02:29,270 --> 02:02:30,640
side of Michelle.

2206
02:02:30,640 --> 02:02:33,640
I live further up on Michelle.

2207
02:02:33,640 --> 02:02:35,640
Putting in villas.

2208
02:02:35,640 --> 02:02:39,289
If you want to slide the map up, we can follow where you're

2209
02:02:39,289 --> 02:02:40,640
trying to show us.

2210
02:02:40,640 --> 02:02:42,640
Okay.

2211
02:02:42,640 --> 02:02:42,640
All righty.

2212
02:02:42,640 --> 02:02:44,640
This is Michelle.

2213
02:02:44,640 --> 02:02:46,640
You presently have villas at this side.

2214
02:02:46,640 --> 02:02:49,510
The next spot that he wants to put them in is over here

2215
02:02:49,510 --> 02:02:50,640
across the street.

2216
02:02:50,640 --> 02:02:55,810
I think he wants to put in a total of 30, which would be 15

2217
02:02:55,810 --> 02:03:00,600
units or thereabouts, because when you say 30, it's 30

2218
02:03:00,600 --> 02:03:03,640
individual but 15 buildings.

2219
02:03:03,640 --> 02:03:04,640
Okay.

2220
02:03:04,640 --> 02:03:09,640
That will finish up your building area in through there.

2221
02:03:09,640 --> 02:03:13,050
That is a good place to put them, because it has the buffer

2222
02:03:13,050 --> 02:03:14,640
of the community park.

2223
02:03:14,640 --> 02:03:17,640
It has the dog park, et cetera.

2224
02:03:17,640 --> 02:03:23,770
If he gets and wants to put in more villas, if we go to the

2225
02:03:23,770 --> 02:03:28,920
area where the blue is and they've spoken of 25 and

2226
02:03:28,920 --> 02:03:34,840
changing 25-1 and 25-2 and the like, and I'm not the

2227
02:03:34,840 --> 02:03:43,640
builder, I'm that, but my common sense would say,

2228
02:03:43,640 --> 02:03:47,329
okay, this area right in here, you would remain with

2229
02:03:47,329 --> 02:03:48,640
regular homes.

2230
02:03:48,640 --> 02:03:49,640
This little pod here.

2231
02:03:49,640 --> 02:03:54,439
Now, pods, clusters, neighborhoods, they all kind of mean

2232
02:03:54,439 --> 02:03:57,640
the same depending on where you're at.

2233
02:03:57,640 --> 02:04:03,640
Whatever you put in as a villa, you have to keep together.

2234
02:04:03,640 --> 02:04:08,140
The rationale being is they're all getting their water paid

2235
02:04:08,140 --> 02:04:12,550
for by the private HOA, and I'm calling it private, but it

2236
02:04:12,550 --> 02:04:14,640
's a sub-HOA they're in.

2237
02:04:14,640 --> 02:04:18,859
There's no way that anybody is going to want to put a villa

2238
02:04:18,859 --> 02:04:23,069
in the middle of another house area, because you're not

2239
02:04:23,069 --> 02:04:25,640
going to get the support for it.

2240
02:04:25,640 --> 02:04:29,739
They've used the terms lock and leave, and that, I think,

2241
02:04:29,739 --> 02:04:31,640
is a big misconception.

2242
02:04:31,640 --> 02:04:36,640
In other areas of the community or country, you have places

2243
02:04:36,640 --> 02:04:41,640
where I kind of maybe would have liked to have had it with

2244
02:04:41,640 --> 02:04:41,640
moving in,

2245
02:04:41,640 --> 02:04:44,640
where I didn't have to worry about hiring my gardener,

2246
02:04:44,640 --> 02:04:50,640
hiring my, yeah, I'm going to blank out.

2247
02:04:50,640 --> 02:04:54,970
Okay, the person to put down the weed and feed, somebody to

2248
02:04:54,970 --> 02:04:59,270
come and trim the shrubs, etc., whether or not my watering

2249
02:04:59,270 --> 02:05:00,640
system is working.

2250
02:05:00,640 --> 02:05:03,640
These are things that are taken care of.

2251
02:05:03,640 --> 02:05:07,399
It doesn't mean that I'm going to leave the place and have

2252
02:05:07,399 --> 02:05:08,640
it go derelict.

2253
02:05:08,640 --> 02:05:12,640
It just means I've got something better to do with my time,

2254
02:05:12,640 --> 02:05:17,039
which might include going off to the schools, reading to

2255
02:05:17,039 --> 02:05:20,640
the children, tutoring them, etc.

2256
02:05:20,640 --> 02:05:24,220
I think that's a little bit more productive sometime than

2257
02:05:24,220 --> 02:05:27,640
worrying about whether or not my grass has gotten cut.

2258
02:05:27,640 --> 02:05:35,020
Looking at the proposal in the way I understood it was that

2259
02:05:35,020 --> 02:05:39,909
they would like to have the feasibility that say in two

2260
02:05:39,909 --> 02:05:40,640
months,

2261
02:05:40,640 --> 02:05:45,640
they find out that they need to put in X number of villas.

2262
02:05:45,640 --> 02:05:48,939
To have that feasibility of looking with where they're

2263
02:05:48,939 --> 02:05:53,229
digging, how the land is laid out, how they can do the

2264
02:05:53,229 --> 02:05:54,640
support system,

2265
02:05:54,640 --> 02:05:57,510
and whether or not they would then determine that this

2266
02:05:57,510 --> 02:05:59,920
neighborhood over here would be a villa or this

2267
02:05:59,920 --> 02:06:02,640
neighborhood up here would be a set of villas,

2268
02:06:02,640 --> 02:06:07,649
and they would be separated by be a street, be a golf

2269
02:06:07,649 --> 02:06:11,640
course, be a wetlands or that thing.

2270
02:06:11,640 --> 02:06:16,630
They would still come back to you at that time, but they

2271
02:06:16,630 --> 02:06:22,640
don't want to go through all of the initial preliminaries.

2272
02:06:22,640 --> 02:06:27,359
To say to have all of that ready today, well, we drove down

2273
02:06:27,359 --> 02:06:30,640
one of the streets and they're bulldozing and working on it

2274
02:06:30,640 --> 02:06:30,640
,

2275
02:06:30,640 --> 02:06:34,739
and until they find out how that lot of land is going to

2276
02:06:34,739 --> 02:06:37,640
pan out when you're on a bulldozer,

2277
02:06:37,640 --> 02:06:43,770
then they can't figure out what it would be working best

2278
02:06:43,770 --> 02:06:44,640
for.

2279
02:06:44,640 --> 02:06:49,750
A concern, I think, for some of the neighbors or within the

2280
02:06:49,750 --> 02:06:54,489
community of Robeson ought to be that if Robeson cannot

2281
02:06:54,489 --> 02:06:57,640
maintain their buildings

2282
02:06:57,640 --> 02:07:02,630
and for some reason they do end up pulling out, then I as a

2283
02:07:02,630 --> 02:07:07,640
homeowner, based on the rules and regulations of the zoning

2284
02:07:07,640 --> 02:07:09,640
and the city council

2285
02:07:09,640 --> 02:07:13,300
and what is based on the CC and ours of Robeson, we're

2286
02:07:13,300 --> 02:07:17,220
going to be the ones that are going to have to take care of

2287
02:07:17,220 --> 02:07:18,640
our own streets.

2288
02:07:18,640 --> 02:07:22,760
We're going to have to worry about those things that right

2289
02:07:22,760 --> 02:07:26,640
now the city of Denton does not have to take care of.

2290
02:07:26,640 --> 02:07:32,350
We pay for our trash. We maintain our own streets, et

2291
02:07:32,350 --> 02:07:34,640
cetera. I thank you.

2292
02:07:34,640 --> 02:07:37,640
Thank you.

2293
02:07:37,640 --> 02:07:41,640
That's the last card that I have on this item.

2294
02:07:41,640 --> 02:07:46,539
So at this time I'm going to go back and answer the

2295
02:07:46,539 --> 02:07:50,710
questions Mr. Walker had on some of the gas well issues I

2296
02:07:50,710 --> 02:07:51,640
can answer.

2297
02:07:51,640 --> 02:07:53,640
Julie couldn't answer.

2298
02:07:53,640 --> 02:07:54,640
Okay.

2299
02:07:54,640 --> 02:07:58,350
I've got, Legal would like to clarify, I think, some of the

2300
02:07:58,350 --> 02:08:02,199
gas well questions, and then we will open and die us up for

2301
02:08:02,199 --> 02:08:03,640
discussion and a motion.

2302
02:08:03,640 --> 02:08:07,239
I just wanted to touch on the gas well issues that Mr.

2303
02:08:07,239 --> 02:08:11,640
Walker had raised, specifically the Ponder ETJ issue,

2304
02:08:11,640 --> 02:08:15,500
as well as also some of the comments made by, on the

2305
02:08:15,500 --> 02:08:19,550
history of this project, made by Julie Wyatt, our senior

2306
02:08:19,550 --> 02:08:22,640
planner who presented this item.

2307
02:08:22,640 --> 02:08:26,930
As far as the separation standards that Mr. Walker was

2308
02:08:26,930 --> 02:08:30,640
referring to are normally called setbacks.

2309
02:08:30,640 --> 02:08:35,369
Now, under Texas law, cities are allowed to regulate uses

2310
02:08:35,369 --> 02:08:40,640
and distances between uses and internally within a use

2311
02:08:40,640 --> 02:08:43,640
through the concept of zoning.

2312
02:08:43,640 --> 02:08:47,520
And zoning is only effective, or should I say, the city

2313
02:08:47,520 --> 02:08:51,640
only has the power to use zoning within the city limits.

2314
02:08:51,640 --> 02:08:56,109
Once you go outside the city limits, it's no longer a, we

2315
02:08:56,109 --> 02:09:00,689
don't have zoning power, so we can't enforce or implement a

2316
02:09:00,689 --> 02:09:03,329
separation standard for a use that's outside the city

2317
02:09:03,329 --> 02:09:05,640
limits to uses that are inside.

2318
02:09:05,640 --> 02:09:09,890
And that's even further reinforced when that particular use

2319
02:09:09,890 --> 02:09:13,479
happens to be in another city's extra-territorial

2320
02:09:13,479 --> 02:09:14,640
jurisdiction,

2321
02:09:14,640 --> 02:09:19,180
which is they can regulate through their platting just like

2322
02:09:19,180 --> 02:09:21,640
we regulate plats in the ETJ.

2323
02:09:21,640 --> 02:09:25,210
So with that, that's why we don't have a system, nor are we

2324
02:09:25,210 --> 02:09:28,239
allowed to by Texas law, to implement some type of a set

2325
02:09:28,239 --> 02:09:36,109
back from a wastewater injection well that may be located in

2326
02:09:36,109 --> 02:09:37,640
the ETJ of another city.

2327
02:09:37,640 --> 02:09:39,640
So hopefully that answers that question.

2328
02:09:39,640 --> 02:09:44,970
The other part, as far as what Julie Wyatt confirmed, you

2329
02:09:44,970 --> 02:09:48,569
know, what happened in 2011, and some of the comments about

2330
02:09:48,569 --> 02:09:52,010
the discussions involving Council Member Watson, Mayor

2331
02:09:52,010 --> 02:09:54,640
Watson, who was a council member at the time.

2332
02:09:54,640 --> 02:09:58,289
And as I'm looking at the planners in this room, you know,

2333
02:09:58,289 --> 02:10:01,130
they're all newer, and I guess I've been here five and a

2334
02:10:01,130 --> 02:10:04,189
half years, and I've more or less become institutional

2335
02:10:04,189 --> 02:10:06,640
knowledge on this particular project.

2336
02:10:06,640 --> 02:10:10,489
I was there in 2011 at the P&Z and at the City Council

2337
02:10:10,489 --> 02:10:14,939
discussions, and I know that gas wells were raised at that

2338
02:10:14,939 --> 02:10:15,640
time.

2339
02:10:15,640 --> 02:10:21,720
I can't remember exactly specifics or whether the 250-foot

2340
02:10:21,720 --> 02:10:25,640
agreement was reached at that meeting.

2341
02:10:25,640 --> 02:10:28,970
I'm assuming that that was not reflected in the actual

2342
02:10:28,970 --> 02:10:32,640
ordinance at the time, or if there's any mention of that.

2343
02:10:32,640 --> 02:10:35,569
So just like some comments had been made earlier by P&Z,

2344
02:10:35,569 --> 02:10:39,619
unless it's actually written down, it's very difficult to

2345
02:10:39,619 --> 02:10:44,779
go back and determine what exactly was said or agreed to or

2346
02:10:44,779 --> 02:10:47,640
decided if it's not written.

2347
02:10:47,640 --> 02:10:51,479
And that is something I guess I'm in agreement with some of

2348
02:10:51,479 --> 02:10:55,319
the members on the P&Z that have expressed that opinion or

2349
02:10:55,319 --> 02:10:56,640
their concern.

2350
02:10:56,640 --> 02:10:59,739
We need some conditions that are definitely written down so

2351
02:10:59,739 --> 02:11:02,260
that we don't have to come back here to decide what

2352
02:11:02,260 --> 02:11:05,789
actually occurred five, six, ten, fifteen, twenty years,

2353
02:11:05,789 --> 02:11:08,760
because this development will continue developing for many

2354
02:11:08,760 --> 02:11:09,640
years to come.

2355
02:11:09,640 --> 02:11:15,640
So with that, I just wanted to add that to the record.

2356
02:11:15,640 --> 02:11:18,640
Thank you.

2357
02:11:18,640 --> 02:11:20,640
Commissioner Hutchibeth.

2358
02:11:20,640 --> 02:11:21,640
Thank you, Chair.

2359
02:11:21,640 --> 02:11:25,319
If I could have the gentleman behind you, Mr. Chair, I

2360
02:11:25,319 --> 02:11:26,640
forget his name. He spoke to us before.

2361
02:11:26,640 --> 02:11:27,640
Yes, sir, if you would please.

2362
02:11:27,640 --> 02:11:30,640
Thank you.

2363
02:11:30,640 --> 02:11:36,640
And if I could have the map, please.

2364
02:11:36,640 --> 02:11:40,640
The map they have out there.

2365
02:11:40,640 --> 02:11:46,029
As an overarching narrative, I share concern of my fellow

2366
02:11:46,029 --> 02:11:51,649
commissioners, but I'm hoping there's a consensus to be

2367
02:11:51,649 --> 02:11:52,640
made here.

2368
02:11:52,640 --> 02:11:59,640
I found your presentation to be easy for me to understand.

2369
02:11:59,640 --> 02:12:02,689
Give me just, and I'm not going to hold you to it, I just

2370
02:12:02,689 --> 02:12:04,640
need to have a kind of a visual.

2371
02:12:04,640 --> 02:12:08,800
Can you give me a general, can we pan out a little bit so

2372
02:12:08,800 --> 02:12:10,640
we see the whole map?

2373
02:12:10,640 --> 02:12:12,640
She'll adjust it.

2374
02:12:12,640 --> 02:12:16,640
I think.

2375
02:12:16,640 --> 02:12:17,640
Cool. Thank you.

2376
02:12:17,640 --> 02:12:25,220
So what, using the existing villas that sliver as kind of a

2377
02:12:25,220 --> 02:12:29,640
mile marker, you said there's 63.

2378
02:12:29,640 --> 02:12:35,310
What does the max, in yellow space, if you can, what would,

2379
02:12:35,310 --> 02:12:38,340
if we just kind of grouped it all together, just so I can

2380
02:12:38,340 --> 02:12:45,859
get a proportion, what is 1200, I get units, what does that

2381
02:12:45,859 --> 02:12:46,640
look like?

2382
02:12:46,640 --> 02:12:48,369
What sections kind of, can you give me a general, I mean,

2383
02:12:48,369 --> 02:12:51,109
and again, I'm not holding you to it, I just need to kind

2384
02:12:51,109 --> 02:12:55,090
of have some visual to say this general area would

2385
02:12:55,090 --> 02:12:57,640
encompass that type space.

2386
02:12:57,640 --> 02:13:00,640
Yes sir. Mr. Chairman, members of the commission.

2387
02:13:00,640 --> 02:13:04,210
Given that the 6000 to 37 unit maximum for the whole

2388
02:13:04,210 --> 02:13:07,899
project and that we're currently around 1900 units, so let

2389
02:13:07,899 --> 02:13:10,159
's say there's a plus or minus 5% swing, I think we

2390
02:13:10,159 --> 02:13:13,640
discussed last time around, so if we say 6300 as a maximum,

2391
02:13:13,640 --> 02:13:17,640
we're around 19 now leaving 43, 4400.

2392
02:13:17,640 --> 02:13:22,109
So that's a very in yellow, not within the hatched zone,

2393
02:13:22,109 --> 02:13:28,699
being 4400 units, 4300 units, 1200 of those to be the vill

2394
02:13:28,699 --> 02:13:33,149
as, I'd say about a third of that yellow space if that lends

2395
02:13:33,149 --> 02:13:33,640
any detail to it.

2396
02:13:33,640 --> 02:13:40,640
So if I run up the side there, let's say from.

2397
02:13:40,640 --> 02:13:41,640
Like in that area?

2398
02:13:41,640 --> 02:13:42,640
Yeah.

2399
02:13:42,640 --> 02:13:46,640
So straight up from there, kind of, generally, and again.

2400
02:13:46,640 --> 02:13:48,640
Generally, I would say so.

2401
02:13:48,640 --> 02:13:49,640
Yes.

2402
02:13:49,640 --> 02:13:51,640
30%, something like that, that's probably reasonable.

2403
02:13:51,640 --> 02:13:52,640
Got it.

2404
02:13:52,640 --> 02:13:53,640
Okay.

2405
02:13:53,640 --> 02:13:59,989
And then, help me understand when we say, when I'm thinking

2406
02:13:59,989 --> 02:14:04,659
the neighborhood sections, the numbers, what do you call

2407
02:14:04,659 --> 02:14:05,640
them again?

2408
02:14:05,640 --> 02:14:06,640
Neighborhoods, units.

2409
02:14:06,640 --> 02:14:07,640
Yeah, so neighborhood units.

2410
02:14:07,640 --> 02:14:12,539
So is 27 one and then 27 two, that's two different

2411
02:14:12,539 --> 02:14:14,640
neighborhood units?

2412
02:14:14,640 --> 02:14:16,640
Yes, sir, typically phasing.

2413
02:14:16,640 --> 02:14:17,640
Okay.

2414
02:14:17,640 --> 02:14:18,640
Exactly right.

2415
02:14:18,640 --> 02:14:24,640
Got it.

2416
02:14:24,640 --> 02:14:29,640
I guess I'm not asking you to answer this.

2417
02:14:29,640 --> 02:14:32,640
I'm just going to, I'm speaking out loud, Mr. Sorrell.

2418
02:14:32,640 --> 02:14:38,949
So my thought is, I'm hoping we can come to an agreement on

2419
02:14:38,949 --> 02:14:44,640
a section and then at least get the ball rolling.

2420
02:14:44,640 --> 02:14:49,289
I respect the fact that there's 44 people that said they're

2421
02:14:49,289 --> 02:14:50,640
in favor of it.

2422
02:14:50,640 --> 02:14:52,640
I'm not willing to ignore that.

2423
02:14:52,640 --> 02:14:55,640
There's two people that said, hey, we need a couple issues,

2424
02:14:55,640 --> 02:15:00,640
but none of them, none of the issues aren't corrected by Mr

2425
02:15:00,640 --> 02:15:00,640
.

2426
02:15:00,640 --> 02:15:04,640
Sorrell's willingness to bookend everything.

2427
02:15:04,640 --> 02:15:09,640
So that leaves me with, I can either ignore the 44 people,

2428
02:15:09,640 --> 02:15:13,640
ignore the two people that spoke today saying they're

2429
02:15:13,640 --> 02:15:17,640
willing to be amenable to some adjustments.

2430
02:15:17,640 --> 02:15:21,460
And the one person that spoke that said she's amenable to

2431
02:15:21,460 --> 02:15:25,270
the adjustments, I'm not willing to ignore all that for

2432
02:15:25,270 --> 02:15:26,640
another month.

2433
02:15:26,640 --> 02:15:32,880
But I guess my question is, and I don't, you don't have to

2434
02:15:32,880 --> 02:15:34,640
answer this.

2435
02:15:34,640 --> 02:15:39,310
That may be for Mr. Sorrell, but is there a section,

2436
02:15:39,310 --> 02:15:45,659
because I'm assuming we're not moving up to section 46

2437
02:15:45,659 --> 02:15:47,640
because that's at the very top and nothing else is there.

2438
02:15:47,640 --> 02:15:51,810
So I think we can, with a reasonable amount of certainty,

2439
02:15:51,810 --> 02:15:55,699
zone in on a segment that says, hey, let's get the ball

2440
02:15:55,699 --> 02:15:58,649
rolling, understanding there's a need and understanding I

2441
02:15:58,649 --> 02:16:00,640
don't want you to lose not one customer.

2442
02:16:00,640 --> 02:16:06,159
And then that gives us time to fix the rest, the language,

2443
02:16:06,159 --> 02:16:08,640
et cetera, et cetera.

2444
02:16:08,640 --> 02:16:16,300
So I think hopefully that's a good mix. I'll see what else

2445
02:16:16,300 --> 02:16:17,640
comes.

2446
02:16:17,640 --> 02:16:22,720
But that was my question for you. And so I just, I know I

2447
02:16:22,720 --> 02:16:25,640
can count on you. So thank you.

2448
02:16:25,640 --> 02:16:28,760
I appreciate that. If I can make one comment to pseudo

2449
02:16:28,760 --> 02:16:29,640
response.

2450
02:16:29,640 --> 02:16:32,399
In terms of the layout, I know it was a lot of discussion

2451
02:16:32,399 --> 02:16:35,459
last time, identify, pause, and have some locations that

2452
02:16:35,459 --> 02:16:36,639
are pinned right down.

2453
02:16:36,639 --> 02:16:40,479
Within some context, some offset, some buffers, some of the

2454
02:16:40,479 --> 02:16:42,639
facades not facing each other.

2455
02:16:42,639 --> 02:16:45,110
We took a look and just started into the effort to see what

2456
02:16:45,110 --> 02:16:47,389
is it going to take to identify those and kind of pick a

2457
02:16:47,389 --> 02:16:49,639
spot like unit 27.2 came up.

2458
02:16:49,639 --> 02:16:52,370
So if there's lots on the golf course, they're going to be

2459
02:16:52,370 --> 02:16:54,639
usually typically a higher end product.

2460
02:16:54,639 --> 02:16:57,139
They're not going to be bills across from them. Now there's

2461
02:16:57,139 --> 02:16:59,920
some amount of a buffer, maybe 20 feet, hasn't really been

2462
02:16:59,920 --> 02:17:00,639
pinned down.

2463
02:17:00,639 --> 02:17:03,389
We start kind of running into these roadblocks with every

2464
02:17:03,389 --> 02:17:06,010
decision that need to be made in order to get some finite

2465
02:17:06,010 --> 02:17:07,639
locations.

2466
02:17:07,639 --> 02:17:10,110
We found we were hitting more roadblocks and we were making

2467
02:17:10,110 --> 02:17:12,639
headway, which turned us into the neighborhood meeting and

2468
02:17:12,639 --> 02:17:15,219
some further discussions and left our effort to right or

2469
02:17:15,219 --> 02:17:15,639
wrong.

2470
02:17:15,639 --> 02:17:18,120
And again, we apologize if that's a surprise and it sounds

2471
02:17:18,120 --> 02:17:21,120
like it was coming here tonight, but some kind of a stip

2472
02:17:21,120 --> 02:17:23,639
ulated approval with some of the staff report.

2473
02:17:23,639 --> 02:17:27,219
I know staff did a great job again, appreciate their help

2474
02:17:27,219 --> 02:17:30,850
identifying a handful of the buffer zone, the offset, the

2475
02:17:30,850 --> 02:17:34,639
facades, and that side by side together with our hatching.

2476
02:17:34,639 --> 02:17:38,809
We greatly appreciate an ability to identify what we hope

2477
02:17:38,809 --> 02:17:42,639
are fairly summarizable list of the issues that are pending

2478
02:17:42,639 --> 02:17:42,639
.

2479
02:17:42,639 --> 02:17:45,040
And then our land planning can take those turns with

2480
02:17:45,040 --> 02:17:48,770
accurate, hard and fast limitations and draw real lines and

2481
02:17:48,770 --> 02:17:52,030
start that planning, start all that engineering work that

2482
02:17:52,030 --> 02:17:52,639
was for whatever it's worth.

2483
02:17:52,639 --> 02:17:57,639
The rationale behind how we're coming for you tonight.

2484
02:17:57,639 --> 02:17:59,639
I'll ask you a question.

2485
02:17:59,639 --> 02:18:01,639
Follow up.

2486
02:18:01,639 --> 02:18:03,639
I'm not opposed to what you're trying to do.

2487
02:18:03,639 --> 02:18:06,639
And I said I'm not opposed to villas.

2488
02:18:06,639 --> 02:18:10,209
We're talking about hypotheticals and kind of going off the

2489
02:18:10,209 --> 02:18:10,639
fly.

2490
02:18:10,639 --> 02:18:13,930
If I understand you're trying to get this going, and at

2491
02:18:13,930 --> 02:18:16,700
least for myself, I don't want to be a roadblock to your

2492
02:18:16,700 --> 02:18:17,639
development.

2493
02:18:17,639 --> 02:18:20,719
I'd like to see it be successful, it's been successful, I'd

2494
02:18:20,719 --> 02:18:22,639
like it to continue to be that way.

2495
02:18:22,639 --> 02:18:29,420
If as an option we were to deny it at PNC, it moves on to

2496
02:18:29,420 --> 02:18:31,639
City Council.

2497
02:18:31,639 --> 02:18:34,799
You're able then to work out all these issues that you're

2498
02:18:34,799 --> 02:18:37,780
talking about between tonight and when you go to City

2499
02:18:37,780 --> 02:18:38,639
Council.

2500
02:18:38,639 --> 02:18:41,790
I know it's not the answer that you want to be a denial,

2501
02:18:41,790 --> 02:18:45,090
but I'm not comfortable trying to be up here after you all

2502
02:18:45,090 --> 02:18:48,309
spent a month working on it and not been able to come up to

2503
02:18:48,309 --> 02:18:51,129
it and we're going to work it out an hour tonight and draft

2504
02:18:51,129 --> 02:18:53,639
language to send on to City Council.

2505
02:18:53,639 --> 02:18:56,219
Is that something that you're willing to consider even

2506
02:18:56,219 --> 02:18:57,639
though I know it's a denial?

2507
02:18:57,639 --> 02:18:59,639
It does move your project forward.

2508
02:18:59,639 --> 02:19:02,959
I'm hopeful City Council between now and when you go there,

2509
02:19:02,959 --> 02:19:05,969
you can work out all of these issues and the things that

2510
02:19:05,969 --> 02:19:09,370
you've talked about that you're willing to do, which were

2511
02:19:09,370 --> 02:19:12,500
our concerns as a commissioner or some of our concerns as

2512
02:19:12,500 --> 02:19:13,639
commissioners.

2513
02:19:13,639 --> 02:19:16,260
If that's a viable option, even though it's a denial and

2514
02:19:16,260 --> 02:19:19,639
nobody likes to hear that, it does keep you moving forward.

2515
02:19:19,639 --> 02:19:22,870
It does allow you the time to resolve these things and get

2516
02:19:22,870 --> 02:19:25,639
it done at City Council to move forward.

2517
02:19:25,639 --> 02:19:29,209
I don't know if that's something you all would like to

2518
02:19:29,209 --> 02:19:32,510
consider as an option or if that's just not something you

2519
02:19:32,510 --> 02:19:33,639
want to talk about.

2520
02:19:33,639 --> 02:19:36,639
If, excuse me, if I can try to respond to that.

2521
02:19:36,639 --> 02:19:39,340
One of the issues under that scenario where that would

2522
02:19:39,340 --> 02:19:42,309
happen and we still have issues to work out, where I feel

2523
02:19:42,309 --> 02:19:45,270
we're going to come into the same situation where our

2524
02:19:45,270 --> 02:19:48,360
ability to pin down layouts and really move forward and

2525
02:19:48,360 --> 02:19:51,360
tighten anything up, given the TOPO and then all the other

2526
02:19:51,360 --> 02:19:53,639
issues that plan with it, I know you understand,

2527
02:19:53,639 --> 02:19:57,579
isn't going to be any more solidified until that approval

2528
02:19:57,579 --> 02:19:58,639
is in place.

2529
02:19:58,639 --> 02:20:01,780
So get into that point where we can actually put pen to

2530
02:20:01,780 --> 02:20:05,059
paper and know exactly what the constraints are and get

2531
02:20:05,059 --> 02:20:06,639
things put together.

2532
02:20:06,639 --> 02:20:09,649
We're having a hard time with that, and I think that would

2533
02:20:09,649 --> 02:20:11,639
still exist under that scenario.

2534
02:20:11,639 --> 02:20:15,219
Given that the red hatched area has eliminated a lot of the

2535
02:20:15,219 --> 02:20:18,639
concern last time, which was the infill surprises.

2536
02:20:18,639 --> 02:20:21,590
So we think that's taken care of and understanding it isn't

2537
02:20:21,590 --> 02:20:24,459
a preference to, on the fly, I mentioned, work through

2538
02:20:24,459 --> 02:20:25,639
these other issues.

2539
02:20:25,639 --> 02:20:28,340
But if there's a potential to move it forward with stip

2540
02:20:28,340 --> 02:20:31,870
ulations for the handful of the buffer zone, 20 foot has

2541
02:20:31,870 --> 02:20:34,930
come up, the handful of other issues, the façade's not

2542
02:20:34,930 --> 02:20:38,780
facing each other in the future units, and then not being

2543
02:20:38,780 --> 02:20:42,639
side by side, I think that there's really a handful of them

2544
02:20:42,639 --> 02:20:42,639
that are left.

2545
02:20:42,639 --> 02:20:45,790
And if there's an ability to have a motion that tries to

2546
02:20:45,790 --> 02:20:49,219
address those three with a hard and fast limit, then we can

2547
02:20:49,219 --> 02:20:52,079
know where we stand better and when we actually get final

2548
02:20:52,079 --> 02:20:53,639
ized, be able to proceed.

2549
02:20:53,639 --> 02:20:57,610
And until that point, we're going to be a little bit unable

2550
02:20:57,610 --> 02:21:00,639
to jump right in for lack of a better term.

2551
02:21:00,639 --> 02:21:03,139
Excuse me. I don't know if that helps. That would be our

2552
02:21:03,139 --> 02:21:03,639
preference.

2553
02:21:03,639 --> 02:21:07,209
That's what we're requesting is, I guess, a stipulated

2554
02:21:07,209 --> 02:21:10,659
approval with that addresses those, I'll say three terms I

2555
02:21:10,659 --> 02:21:12,639
think that are outstanding.

2556
02:21:12,639 --> 02:21:15,899
Okay. I've got one other question. Commissioner Rosano, do

2557
02:21:15,899 --> 02:21:18,340
you have a question or just something else for this

2558
02:21:18,340 --> 02:21:19,639
particular speaker?

2559
02:21:19,639 --> 02:21:21,670
It's not necessarily for the particular speaker. I

2560
02:21:21,670 --> 02:21:22,639
appreciate your feedback.

2561
02:21:22,639 --> 02:21:23,639
Thanks.

2562
02:21:23,639 --> 02:21:28,629
I have some thoughts and then I have a concern to express

2563
02:21:28,629 --> 02:21:33,700
as the momentum's carrying us to some sort of motion. The

2564
02:21:33,700 --> 02:21:35,639
report that we received from our city staff says that P&Z

2565
02:21:35,639 --> 02:21:38,639
made recommendations for revisions and continued the

2566
02:21:38,639 --> 02:21:41,829
request the applicant could further collect from

2567
02:21:41,829 --> 02:21:44,639
neighborhood input and revise proposal.

2568
02:21:44,639 --> 02:21:47,780
And from what I gather, there were six things that was

2569
02:21:47,780 --> 02:21:51,040
needed or that we proposed. There's a reduction in the

2570
02:21:51,040 --> 02:21:54,620
number of permitted villas, a requirement that the duplexes

2571
02:21:54,620 --> 02:21:59,079
be clustered, a buffer, a prohibition of front-facing fac

2572
02:21:59,079 --> 02:22:02,809
ades, general locations, and then a protection for those

2573
02:22:02,809 --> 02:22:06,639
already platted. So that's six items.

2574
02:22:06,639 --> 02:22:10,610
You all came today with one of those addressed on record.

2575
02:22:10,610 --> 02:22:14,639
The proposal we have one in which you protected an area.

2576
02:22:14,639 --> 02:22:17,989
And it says the applicant submitted the revised detailed

2577
02:22:17,989 --> 02:22:21,360
land use plan but made no additional effort to address the

2578
02:22:21,360 --> 02:22:25,649
concerns raised. Yet I'm hearing of those six items, we can

2579
02:22:25,649 --> 02:22:27,639
knock off four of them real fast.

2580
02:22:27,639 --> 02:22:31,209
We can change the cluster because you said you build by

2581
02:22:31,209 --> 02:22:34,719
unit so we have the cluster one checked off. We have the

2582
02:22:34,719 --> 02:22:38,790
buffer that you've provided tonight about buffering. And

2583
02:22:38,790 --> 02:22:41,049
then we have this front-facing facade that you're fine

2584
02:22:41,049 --> 02:22:41,639
changing.

2585
02:22:41,639 --> 02:22:45,239
And so I'm sitting here thinking if you all would have come

2586
02:22:45,239 --> 02:22:48,069
to us with four out of the six proposals that we

2587
02:22:48,069 --> 02:22:51,670
recommended a month ago in writing, I don't want to speak

2588
02:22:51,670 --> 02:22:54,969
on behalf of the commission, but it would have been a

2589
02:22:54,969 --> 02:22:58,639
little bit more smooth than what we're experiencing tonight

2590
02:22:58,639 --> 02:22:58,639
.

2591
02:22:58,639 --> 02:23:03,229
And so there's a little bit of Chairman said surprise. That

2592
02:23:03,229 --> 02:23:07,549
's a decent word to hear that two thirds of everything that

2593
02:23:07,549 --> 02:23:12,360
was suggested to you. It was actually amenable. And you all

2594
02:23:12,360 --> 02:23:14,639
are okay with doing it tonight.

2595
02:23:14,639 --> 02:23:18,290
It's a little frustrating because I think we can all agree

2596
02:23:18,290 --> 02:23:22,200
that we're not against villas. We I feel a little bit hand

2597
02:23:22,200 --> 02:23:25,659
tied by the way this was presented to us and it seems like

2598
02:23:25,659 --> 02:23:29,639
staff provided some opportunities to get this clarified.

2599
02:23:29,639 --> 02:23:33,010
So my concern, those are my thoughts. My concern is if I

2600
02:23:33,010 --> 02:23:36,100
was to hypothetically make a motion, it would sound

2601
02:23:36,100 --> 02:23:39,620
something like I approve with the condition that we include

2602
02:23:39,620 --> 02:23:42,969
unit 25-2 in the hatched zone that would include no

2603
02:23:42,969 --> 02:23:46,110
products being mixed by villas, premier estates or

2604
02:23:46,110 --> 02:23:49,989
traditions that a buffer behind villas would be at least 20

2605
02:23:49,989 --> 02:23:51,639
feet and there wouldn't be front-facing facades.

2606
02:23:51,639 --> 02:23:55,319
And I'm not an attorney to even write that language, but it

2607
02:23:55,319 --> 02:23:58,979
would have to include all those things. And I hope you can

2608
02:23:58,979 --> 02:24:02,649
see our hesitancy to just make that a condition for

2609
02:24:02,649 --> 02:24:04,639
approval because it is on the fly.

2610
02:24:04,639 --> 02:24:07,600
I don't even know if what I just mentioned could even put

2611
02:24:07,600 --> 02:24:10,329
it into motion. But those are the four things that I've

2612
02:24:10,329 --> 02:24:12,879
heard, which it seems everyone's on the same page with the

2613
02:24:12,879 --> 02:24:16,639
agreeable. I just wish it was brought to us first.

2614
02:24:16,639 --> 02:24:26,360
And so, yeah, I guess my thought is I'm not okay with

2615
02:24:26,360 --> 02:24:29,549
making those conditions. It's hard to approve on those

2616
02:24:29,549 --> 02:24:30,639
conditions.

2617
02:24:30,639 --> 02:24:36,610
And so I probably side with the chair here in that a denial

2618
02:24:36,610 --> 02:24:43,000
and then city council can super majority, I believe, vote

2619
02:24:43,000 --> 02:24:49,309
it through. It's just unfortunate that at 8 o'clock the

2620
02:24:49,309 --> 02:24:55,469
night of we are hearing these things that everyone's okay

2621
02:24:55,469 --> 02:24:56,639
with.

2622
02:24:56,639 --> 02:25:00,319
I don't have any other speakers and I don't have a motioner

2623
02:25:00,319 --> 02:25:03,639
. So someone else, Commissioner Taylor.

2624
02:25:03,639 --> 02:25:07,639
Thank you, Chair.

2625
02:25:07,639 --> 02:25:10,639
Yeah, I really think four of six would have been enough.

2626
02:25:10,639 --> 02:25:27,670
It would have been about a 10 minute item or less. So I

2627
02:25:27,670 --> 02:25:28,309
think hearing consensus building on the commission, I'm

2628
02:25:28,309 --> 02:25:28,930
going to make a motion for denial. And I would like to add

2629
02:25:28,930 --> 02:25:30,989
notes as to the reason why this is a denial because I think

2630
02:25:30,989 --> 02:25:33,639
most of us here wanted to vote yes to this.

2631
02:25:33,639 --> 02:25:36,520
And I really thought this would be like you said, there's

2632
02:25:36,520 --> 02:25:39,340
going to be a list of there's going to be two paragraphs of

2633
02:25:39,340 --> 02:25:42,159
text that lay out how these things are going to be located

2634
02:25:42,159 --> 02:25:43,639
and it'll sail through.

2635
02:25:43,639 --> 02:25:48,489
But instead, we got almost the identical proposal we had a

2636
02:25:48,489 --> 02:25:49,639
month ago.

2637
02:25:49,639 --> 02:25:54,629
So I move we recommend denials to city council to this

2638
02:25:54,629 --> 02:26:00,659
amendment to the plan development 173 because it does not

2639
02:26:00,659 --> 02:26:05,969
address the issue of Villa lots being directly across the

2640
02:26:05,969 --> 02:26:10,639
street from other single family lots because it does not

2641
02:26:10,639 --> 02:26:16,180
include a 20 foot buffer in the form of golf course park or

2642
02:26:16,180 --> 02:26:18,639
other open space.

2643
02:26:18,639 --> 02:26:26,430
Because it does not indicate any grouping or clustering of

2644
02:26:26,430 --> 02:26:28,639
the units.

2645
02:26:28,639 --> 02:26:33,639
Trying to make sure I have them all.

2646
02:26:33,639 --> 02:26:41,219
And because of the concerns that this will put

2647
02:26:41,219 --> 02:26:51,639
approximately 28 to 30% of all future development in Robes

2648
02:26:51,639 --> 02:26:59,639
on into higher density attached dwelling category.

2649
02:26:59,639 --> 02:27:08,639
Commissioner Roselle.

2650
02:27:08,639 --> 02:27:10,639
So I second the motion.

2651
02:27:10,639 --> 02:27:14,520
But just as Commissioner Taylor did, as council is reading

2652
02:27:14,520 --> 02:27:18,329
over these minutes, I would like to strongly suggest that

2653
02:27:18,329 --> 02:27:21,889
as if council is to hear this that if the applicant comes

2654
02:27:21,889 --> 02:27:25,250
forward with the discussed items that Commissioner Taylor

2655
02:27:25,250 --> 02:27:28,639
just laid out, then I am for approving this project.

2656
02:27:28,639 --> 02:27:31,659
So for what it's worth to the council, I am a proponent of

2657
02:27:31,659 --> 02:27:32,639
this project.

2658
02:27:32,639 --> 02:27:40,639
I just wish it was complete when came to us.

2659
02:27:40,639 --> 02:27:43,639
We have a first and a second.

2660
02:27:43,639 --> 02:27:46,639
Any further discussion.

2661
02:27:46,639 --> 02:27:51,639
Commissioner has with.

2662
02:27:51,639 --> 02:27:56,639
Yeah, I just.

2663
02:27:56,639 --> 02:27:59,639
I just don't think it's good to deny it.

2664
02:27:59,639 --> 02:28:00,639
I really don't.

2665
02:28:00,639 --> 02:28:02,639
I think there's a mechanism.

2666
02:28:02,639 --> 02:28:05,819
So my pitch is there's a mechanism where we can identify a

2667
02:28:05,819 --> 02:28:08,639
section that allows them to start building.

2668
02:28:08,639 --> 02:28:14,120
And again, we're talking about a segment of a population

2669
02:28:14,120 --> 02:28:16,639
that it's time sensitive.

2670
02:28:16,639 --> 02:28:19,639
It's option sensitive.

2671
02:28:19,639 --> 02:28:26,639
It's we I didn't want to put it off to the month we did.

2672
02:28:26,639 --> 02:28:30,639
And I'm sensitive to the points being made.

2673
02:28:30,639 --> 02:28:33,639
I don't think it is that onerous.

2674
02:28:33,639 --> 02:28:37,450
If you have broad strokes, I think it becomes onerous to

2675
02:28:37,450 --> 02:28:41,270
write something when you're in the in the weeds to detail

2676
02:28:41,270 --> 02:28:42,639
something out.

2677
02:28:42,639 --> 02:28:47,110
But to take broad strokes and say thou shall not X, Y, Z, I

2678
02:28:47,110 --> 02:28:50,639
think is is palatable for me understanding.

2679
02:28:50,639 --> 02:28:52,639
I'm kind of out there by myself.

2680
02:28:52,639 --> 02:29:00,200
I just don't think whenever we never get this response ever

2681
02:29:00,200 --> 02:29:00,639
.

2682
02:29:00,639 --> 02:29:06,389
And for a commission to ignore this response or take it

2683
02:29:06,389 --> 02:29:10,770
lightly or take personal preferences and supersede it, it

2684
02:29:10,770 --> 02:29:11,639
troubles me.

2685
02:29:11,639 --> 02:29:14,430
It troubles me that I would I mean, do we go to every

2686
02:29:14,430 --> 02:29:16,639
household and ask them the questions?

2687
02:29:16,639 --> 02:29:18,959
We're talking about adult community that knows the due

2688
02:29:18,959 --> 02:29:19,639
diligence.

2689
02:29:19,639 --> 02:29:21,639
They know the questions to ask.

2690
02:29:21,639 --> 02:29:23,959
And so to me, for me, for us to say, hey, well, they don't

2691
02:29:23,959 --> 02:29:25,639
know what's going in their backyard.

2692
02:29:25,639 --> 02:29:26,639
I disagree.

2693
02:29:26,639 --> 02:29:28,639
We're not talking about 20 year old kids.

2694
02:29:28,639 --> 02:29:31,579
We're talking about adults that understand due diligence

2695
02:29:31,579 --> 02:29:32,639
better than most.

2696
02:29:32,639 --> 02:29:33,639
They've owned businesses.

2697
02:29:33,639 --> 02:29:35,639
They've sold businesses.

2698
02:29:35,639 --> 02:29:36,639
They bought businesses.

2699
02:29:36,639 --> 02:29:39,219
And I don't think we go house to house and search for

2700
02:29:39,219 --> 02:29:41,639
knives to make sure they have plug protectors.

2701
02:29:41,639 --> 02:29:45,209
I mean, I think you get a little bit onerous and you get to

2702
02:29:45,209 --> 02:29:50,639
where, hey, these are adults making a purchase that have

2703
02:29:50,639 --> 02:29:54,639
are fully capable of making intelligent decisions.

2704
02:29:54,639 --> 02:29:57,639
And they don't need us to babysit them.

2705
02:29:57,639 --> 02:30:03,280
Our job is to make sure that the land is utilized

2706
02:30:03,280 --> 02:30:05,639
appropriately.

2707
02:30:05,639 --> 02:30:08,639
And I think we can get that done at least in one segment.

2708
02:30:08,639 --> 02:30:14,870
Let's say if this is if I'm not the lone wolf wolf pack of

2709
02:30:14,870 --> 02:30:21,639
one, then you're looking at section 17 three that's next to

2710
02:30:21,639 --> 02:30:27,479
the the villas currently that is, hey, we can agree to that

2711
02:30:27,479 --> 02:30:27,639
.

2712
02:30:27,639 --> 02:30:29,639
That gets the ball rolling.

2713
02:30:29,639 --> 02:30:31,639
And then they come back and clean it up.

2714
02:30:31,639 --> 02:30:34,639
So that's that's just my thought.

2715
02:30:34,639 --> 02:30:38,799
I think we're going it's it's into to almost a personal

2716
02:30:38,799 --> 02:30:39,639
level.

2717
02:30:39,639 --> 02:30:43,340
I hear people talking about backyards and I never hear that

2718
02:30:43,340 --> 02:30:43,639
.

2719
02:30:43,639 --> 02:30:46,219
I mean, I've been I've been on this commission that long,

2720
02:30:46,219 --> 02:30:48,790
but I've never heard anyone say, hey, I don't want to vote

2721
02:30:48,790 --> 02:30:51,639
for something because it might affect Bob's backyard.

2722
02:30:51,639 --> 02:30:53,639
Bob is a grown man.

2723
02:30:53,639 --> 02:30:57,069
And in this instance, mature grown man and Bob understands

2724
02:30:57,069 --> 02:30:58,639
and has good questions.

2725
02:30:58,639 --> 02:31:00,639
This has been the most intelligent group we've dealt with.

2726
02:31:00,639 --> 02:31:03,639
Most active community didn't has.

2727
02:31:03,639 --> 02:31:06,510
And 44 of those active communities and the three that sat

2728
02:31:06,510 --> 02:31:08,639
before us today said they're good with it.

2729
02:31:08,639 --> 02:31:12,209
And for this commission to ignore the populace is what our

2730
02:31:12,209 --> 02:31:12,639
job.

2731
02:31:12,639 --> 02:31:14,639
Our job is I have personal preferences.

2732
02:31:14,639 --> 02:31:15,639
I got to set those aside.

2733
02:31:15,639 --> 02:31:16,639
It does it taste great?

2734
02:31:16,639 --> 02:31:17,639
Absolutely not.

2735
02:31:17,639 --> 02:31:20,639
I'm all for having things written and buttoned down.

2736
02:31:20,639 --> 02:31:22,639
But the fact of the matter is they did not.

2737
02:31:22,639 --> 02:31:23,639
They've apologized.

2738
02:31:23,639 --> 02:31:25,639
I take them at their word.

2739
02:31:25,639 --> 02:31:28,879
He is probably one of the best presenters I've seen since I

2740
02:31:28,879 --> 02:31:31,639
've been here as far as getting to the chase.

2741
02:31:31,639 --> 02:31:33,639
And yes is yes and no is no.

2742
02:31:33,639 --> 02:31:35,639
And I take them at their word.

2743
02:31:35,639 --> 02:31:42,440
But again, my hope is that this particular motion is set

2744
02:31:42,440 --> 02:31:43,639
aside.

2745
02:31:43,639 --> 02:31:44,639
We can go back.

2746
02:31:44,639 --> 02:31:47,510
We can pick a section and allow them to begin to serve

2747
02:31:47,510 --> 02:31:52,639
their community, serve Denton County by proxy and city of

2748
02:31:52,639 --> 02:31:52,639
Denton.

2749
02:31:52,639 --> 02:31:56,639
And then we can clean it up.

2750
02:31:56,639 --> 02:32:00,639
But that's my soliloquy.

2751
02:32:00,639 --> 02:32:02,639
Commissioner Sullivan.

2752
02:32:02,639 --> 02:32:06,739
Commissioner Hespeth, I would agree with you in most of

2753
02:32:06,739 --> 02:32:10,219
what you said regarding the agent intelligence of the

2754
02:32:10,219 --> 02:32:11,639
people out there,

2755
02:32:11,639 --> 02:32:14,639
me being one of them.

2756
02:32:14,639 --> 02:32:18,219
But you have to understand that what we're really talking

2757
02:32:18,219 --> 02:32:22,389
about are protecting the people who have already made an

2758
02:32:22,389 --> 02:32:23,639
investment

2759
02:32:23,639 --> 02:32:26,139
based on things that were told to them at the time that

2760
02:32:26,139 --> 02:32:27,639
they made those decisions.

2761
02:32:27,639 --> 02:32:31,209
We're not talking about people in the future because we don

2762
02:32:31,209 --> 02:32:32,639
't know who they are.

2763
02:32:32,639 --> 02:32:35,889
And so that's really I think what the issue for me is, is

2764
02:32:35,889 --> 02:32:41,260
that I don't want anything to change that has already been

2765
02:32:41,260 --> 02:32:42,639
said to those people.

2766
02:32:42,639 --> 02:32:48,010
And of the 41 people that we have in favor of it, not a

2767
02:32:48,010 --> 02:32:52,639
single one of them live on the fringe near the blue line.

2768
02:32:52,639 --> 02:32:55,340
They all live down in the middle where it's not going to

2769
02:32:55,340 --> 02:32:56,639
affect them one iota.

2770
02:32:56,639 --> 02:33:01,440
And so I think that when you look at the fact that a notice

2771
02:33:01,440 --> 02:33:04,969
did not go out to those people that are closest to that

2772
02:33:04,969 --> 02:33:05,639
blue line,

2773
02:33:05,639 --> 02:33:09,360
we don't really have an indication of how those people feel

2774
02:33:09,360 --> 02:33:09,639
.

2775
02:33:09,639 --> 02:33:14,290
We have an indication of how the people down in the middle

2776
02:33:14,290 --> 02:33:18,200
of the area feel because they just, everybody likes to live

2777
02:33:18,200 --> 02:33:18,639
out there.

2778
02:33:18,639 --> 02:33:21,590
And they say, hey, whatever Robeson says, that's fine with

2779
02:33:21,590 --> 02:33:23,639
me because it's not in their backyard.

2780
02:33:23,639 --> 02:33:27,219
And so I think that's really the key for me is I want to

2781
02:33:27,219 --> 02:33:30,790
protect the people who have made the investment and not

2782
02:33:30,790 --> 02:33:32,639
change what they have already been told.

2783
02:33:32,639 --> 02:33:34,639
And I've heard that they're willing to do that.

2784
02:33:34,639 --> 02:33:38,479
I just wish like everybody has said that they had come with

2785
02:33:38,479 --> 02:33:41,920
that in hand and given it to us and I'd be ready to vote

2786
02:33:41,920 --> 02:33:42,639
for it.

2787
02:33:42,639 --> 02:33:47,639
But they didn't, so we can't.

2788
02:33:47,639 --> 02:33:51,639
Mr. Chairman, can I address one thing, please?

2789
02:33:51,639 --> 02:33:53,639
I'll take a much more of your time.

2790
02:33:53,639 --> 02:33:56,639
Appreciate all the comments and feedback and kind words.

2791
02:33:56,639 --> 02:33:59,920
Certainly the fluidity and dynamics of how this has gone

2792
02:33:59,920 --> 02:34:03,079
has come as a surprise to you all and we do apologize for

2793
02:34:03,079 --> 02:34:03,639
that.

2794
02:34:03,639 --> 02:34:06,639
We, in working through it and hearing concerns and rolling

2795
02:34:06,639 --> 02:34:09,270
with the punches, if you will, that's kind of led us down

2796
02:34:09,270 --> 02:34:09,639
the road.

2797
02:34:09,639 --> 02:34:12,639
We are and we have and here we are.

2798
02:34:12,639 --> 02:34:17,290
Rather, as opposed to having stipulations tied for reasons

2799
02:34:17,290 --> 02:34:18,639
not to approve,

2800
02:34:18,639 --> 02:34:20,950
we would greatly appreciate if there's any ability to spin

2801
02:34:20,950 --> 02:34:23,920
it the other way, have the motion carried that takes the

2802
02:34:23,920 --> 02:34:26,360
best shot at what we are pinning down, what we are willing

2803
02:34:26,360 --> 02:34:29,799
to offer, recognizing that it could have been presented

2804
02:34:29,799 --> 02:34:30,639
better.

2805
02:34:30,639 --> 02:34:32,729
We greatly appreciate some ability and we think it's

2806
02:34:32,729 --> 02:34:34,639
something that we can get our hands around.

2807
02:34:34,639 --> 02:34:37,809
It sounds generally agreeable, although not pinned down

2808
02:34:37,809 --> 02:34:38,639
specifically.

2809
02:34:38,639 --> 02:34:41,620
If we could rather than have a motion that talks about why

2810
02:34:41,620 --> 02:34:44,989
it recommends denial, make that recommendation for approval

2811
02:34:44,989 --> 02:34:48,639
based on those same motions, same stipulations, I'm sorry.

2812
02:34:48,639 --> 02:34:51,959
That would greatly appreciate that and be very helpful for

2813
02:34:51,959 --> 02:34:53,639
our development effort.

2814
02:34:53,639 --> 02:35:01,069
Well, I might ask legal if there's a way if we were to, on

2815
02:35:01,069 --> 02:35:04,860
the vote, to deny if it didn't pass and someone wanted to

2816
02:35:04,860 --> 02:35:07,639
make a motion to approve and put all those conditions on,

2817
02:35:07,639 --> 02:35:11,620
how that moves from this commission on to city council to

2818
02:35:11,620 --> 02:35:16,059
those concerns being able to be addressed in an appropriate

2819
02:35:16,059 --> 02:35:19,889
manner, being that we've specified them once and they haven

2820
02:35:19,889 --> 02:35:23,010
't so far, how we as a commission can move that forward to

2821
02:35:23,010 --> 02:35:23,639
council.

2822
02:35:23,639 --> 02:35:28,389
If I understood your question correctly, if the motion to

2823
02:35:28,389 --> 02:35:32,959
deny fails and a subsequent commissioner makes a motion to

2824
02:35:32,959 --> 02:35:34,639
approve with conditions,

2825
02:35:34,639 --> 02:35:40,889
as actually was suggested by Commissioner Rosell, and

2826
02:35:40,889 --> 02:35:47,540
seconded and approved, knowing that it's just, basically it

2827
02:35:47,540 --> 02:35:48,639
's concepts.

2828
02:35:48,639 --> 02:35:53,290
Sometimes it's tricky to take concepts and put them down to

2829
02:35:53,290 --> 02:35:55,639
paper and translate them.

2830
02:35:55,639 --> 02:36:02,389
But the way to do that, and we have done this in the past

2831
02:36:02,389 --> 02:36:05,639
when I used to be on here, your council,

2832
02:36:05,639 --> 02:36:12,579
was to direct staff and legal in the interim between this

2833
02:36:12,579 --> 02:36:16,690
meeting and the council meeting to actually draft that

2834
02:36:16,690 --> 02:36:19,639
language for the council's consideration,

2835
02:36:19,639 --> 02:36:25,729
knowing that we would try to capture the intent that you

2836
02:36:25,729 --> 02:36:31,049
all wanted us to put down to paper, but there is a risk

2837
02:36:31,049 --> 02:36:33,639
that it may not fully capture.

2838
02:36:33,639 --> 02:36:35,639
But that's your discretion.

2839
02:36:35,639 --> 02:36:41,600
You can direct that and we'll do our best, and that would

2840
02:36:41,600 --> 02:36:48,100
then be presented to council with whatever recommendations

2841
02:36:48,100 --> 02:36:54,639
you all may make, whether you're positive or against it.

2842
02:36:54,639 --> 02:36:56,639
Does that answer your question?

2843
02:36:56,639 --> 02:36:59,969
I appreciate it. It sounds to be an option, how rigid, if

2844
02:36:59,969 --> 02:37:03,040
there's an ability on our part to aid, if that were to be

2845
02:37:03,040 --> 02:37:06,639
something successful that took a drafting between tonight

2846
02:37:06,639 --> 02:37:07,639
and council,

2847
02:37:07,639 --> 02:37:12,920
we could quickly respond and measure it in a day if that is

2848
02:37:12,920 --> 02:37:16,639
of any assistance in that scenario.

2849
02:37:16,639 --> 02:37:18,639
We would greatly appreciate it.

2850
02:37:18,639 --> 02:37:21,510
Well, I'm not opposed to that. I'm the one that initially

2851
02:37:21,510 --> 02:37:22,639
floated the idea about denial.

2852
02:37:22,639 --> 02:37:24,989
And let me tell you why. It's because in the past when we

2853
02:37:24,989 --> 02:37:28,379
have done this and it moves forward, a lot of things don't

2854
02:37:28,379 --> 02:37:29,639
get addressed.

2855
02:37:29,639 --> 02:37:31,639
And then there are commissioners that are concerned that,

2856
02:37:31,639 --> 02:37:35,469
hey, we made a motion to move it forward and it was not

2857
02:37:35,469 --> 02:37:38,639
addressed and it's now gone beyond us.

2858
02:37:38,639 --> 02:37:46,639
So that's why I've made the statements that I have earlier.

2859
02:37:46,639 --> 02:37:50,329
Again, I'm disappointed that this is a position that we're

2860
02:37:50,329 --> 02:37:53,790
put in as a council or as a commission to try to draft this

2861
02:37:53,790 --> 02:37:55,639
language here and move it forward

2862
02:37:55,639 --> 02:38:00,409
when we were hopeful in doing it in 30 days that this just

2863
02:38:00,409 --> 02:38:04,639
comes forward and been tickled for a 10-minute presentation

2864
02:38:04,639 --> 02:38:08,639
and it moves on and you guys are good to go.

2865
02:38:08,639 --> 02:38:14,770
That was our intent in putting it forward the way that it

2866
02:38:14,770 --> 02:38:15,639
was.

2867
02:38:15,639 --> 02:38:20,639
We have a motion and a second before us.

2868
02:38:20,639 --> 02:38:22,639
I've got so many people on the board.

2869
02:38:22,639 --> 02:38:26,739
I don't know who's still wanting to speak on this before we

2870
02:38:26,739 --> 02:38:30,420
call for a vote or if this is -- I'm a recognized

2871
02:38:30,420 --> 02:38:33,110
commissioner, Alice, and then we're going to vote on the

2872
02:38:33,110 --> 02:38:33,639
motion.

2873
02:38:33,639 --> 02:38:36,639
Thank you, Chair. I just wanted to say just a couple words

2874
02:38:36,639 --> 02:38:37,639
for the record.

2875
02:38:37,639 --> 02:38:41,819
I don't think anybody on this commission feels good about a

2876
02:38:41,819 --> 02:38:42,639
denial.

2877
02:38:42,639 --> 02:38:46,739
We gave a lot of good recommendation a month ago and to

2878
02:38:46,739 --> 02:38:50,670
come forward just with the blue line was very disappointing

2879
02:38:50,670 --> 02:38:53,639
because no one's against what it is that you want to do.

2880
02:38:53,639 --> 02:38:57,930
And clearly there's a need, as Commissioner Hutspeth has

2881
02:38:57,930 --> 02:38:58,639
said.

2882
02:38:58,639 --> 02:39:02,739
I mean, many people are in favor and many people want the

2883
02:39:02,739 --> 02:39:06,639
Villa product to get started so they can get into it.

2884
02:39:06,639 --> 02:39:13,010
It's just many, many concerns were not addressed and to try

2885
02:39:13,010 --> 02:39:16,959
to, as Commissioner Taylor addressed earlier, to try to

2886
02:39:16,959 --> 02:39:20,860
craft this up here when you've had a month to do it is

2887
02:39:20,860 --> 02:39:23,639
difficult certainly for us.

2888
02:39:23,639 --> 02:39:27,469
And I still have the question that out there I think that

2889
02:39:27,469 --> 02:39:31,219
Chair asked is why did you only bring back the blue line

2890
02:39:31,219 --> 02:39:35,209
and why didn't you address the things that you are willing

2891
02:39:35,209 --> 02:39:38,639
to now have us hurry up and put into a motion?

2892
02:39:38,639 --> 02:39:40,639
I still would like that answered.

2893
02:39:40,639 --> 02:39:45,440
Why weren't these concerns addressed a month ago between

2894
02:39:45,440 --> 02:39:49,639
you so that we could have voted in favor of this?

2895
02:39:49,639 --> 02:39:53,639
Thank you. And again, my apologies in the fact that this is

2896
02:39:53,639 --> 02:39:53,639
how it's playing out.

2897
02:39:53,639 --> 02:39:56,069
For part of our rationale I mentioned earlier about the

2898
02:39:56,069 --> 02:39:58,479
effort we made to try to start, make some decisions and

2899
02:39:58,479 --> 02:40:01,370
creating a new layer that would identify pods and hitting

2900
02:40:01,370 --> 02:40:04,159
challenges there, not overcomeable, but challenges that

2901
02:40:04,159 --> 02:40:07,290
forced decisions that were a little bit fluid at the time

2902
02:40:07,290 --> 02:40:09,639
based on widths of offsets and such.

2903
02:40:09,639 --> 02:40:12,850
They kind of created some issues there that turned into

2904
02:40:12,850 --> 02:40:16,219
maybe we should state some of these conditions on the map

2905
02:40:16,219 --> 02:40:19,639
and have that be the document that would be standalone.

2906
02:40:19,639 --> 02:40:22,149
But then if those conditions were to change, now is the map

2907
02:40:22,149 --> 02:40:24,350
at a date, so would it be better to write it down or to

2908
02:40:24,350 --> 02:40:26,639
have it to the point where it comes to a motion?

2909
02:40:26,639 --> 02:40:29,219
That was part of my understanding and as is evident in an

2910
02:40:29,219 --> 02:40:32,030
accurate understanding. But thinking that we could keep

2911
02:40:32,030 --> 02:40:34,879
some fluidity, this map would still be this map. It wouldn

2912
02:40:34,879 --> 02:40:37,659
't be edited. There wouldn't be text on it that's now no

2913
02:40:37,659 --> 02:40:39,639
longer valid or slightly different.

2914
02:40:39,639 --> 02:40:42,629
So for that reason it didn't get stated on the map and by

2915
02:40:42,629 --> 02:40:45,639
design, getting right, wrong or indifferent.

2916
02:40:45,639 --> 02:40:48,780
But that was the rationale that led to why we're here, if

2917
02:40:48,780 --> 02:40:50,639
that answers your question.

2918
02:40:50,639 --> 02:40:53,969
I guess it does. Thank you. It answers part of it. And I

2919
02:40:53,969 --> 02:40:57,030
understand the blue line in that addresses a great deal of

2920
02:40:57,030 --> 02:41:00,780
concern about a duplex being thrown in the middle of a

2921
02:41:00,780 --> 02:41:02,639
single family street.

2922
02:41:02,639 --> 02:41:05,989
But what you're throwing out there now, like buffers and

2923
02:41:05,989 --> 02:41:09,229
all that, that would have been really great information to

2924
02:41:09,229 --> 02:41:12,290
have in writing right now because it would alleviate a lot

2925
02:41:12,290 --> 02:41:15,600
of concern that is still out there for a great deal of

2926
02:41:15,600 --> 02:41:16,639
residents out there.

2927
02:41:16,639 --> 02:41:22,600
And that's my concern. And I don't understand why you didn

2928
02:41:22,600 --> 02:41:23,639
't draft that.

2929
02:41:23,639 --> 02:41:26,739
I appreciate that. I guess our hope and still our hope is

2930
02:41:26,739 --> 02:41:29,969
that that could be something that was stipulated with a

2931
02:41:29,969 --> 02:41:33,639
very little bit of text. But that's what we're requesting.

2932
02:41:33,639 --> 02:41:38,639
Thank you.

2933
02:41:38,639 --> 02:41:40,829
I have Commissioner Rossell and Commissioner Hesboski. You

2934
02:41:40,829 --> 02:41:42,639
all both wanted to speak again?

2935
02:41:42,639 --> 02:41:47,639
I just have a quick comment. I initially second the motion.

2936
02:41:47,639 --> 02:41:54,819
Listening to a potential legal option to put forth an

2937
02:41:54,819 --> 02:41:58,639
option that legal can kind of clean up in the interim.

2938
02:41:58,639 --> 02:42:02,629
I'm inclined to see about that. And I don't technically I

2939
02:42:02,629 --> 02:42:04,770
don't know if I can vote against my own motion. So I

2940
02:42:04,770 --> 02:42:08,639
clicked withdrawal. I don't know what the procedure is.

2941
02:42:08,639 --> 02:42:10,959
That's more I don't know if it's a question. Should I

2942
02:42:10,959 --> 02:42:13,139
officially withdraw my second or just vote against my

2943
02:42:13,139 --> 02:42:13,639
motion?

2944
02:42:13,639 --> 02:42:14,639
You can withdraw your second.

2945
02:42:14,639 --> 02:42:20,639
Okay. Then I've done that.

2946
02:42:20,639 --> 02:42:23,540
I'm going to call on Commissioner Taylor and then I'll

2947
02:42:23,540 --> 02:42:26,850
recognize Commissioner Hesboski since your motion has been

2948
02:42:26,850 --> 02:42:27,639
unsealed.

2949
02:42:27,639 --> 02:42:32,639
Thank you, Chair. Yeah.

2950
02:42:32,639 --> 02:42:40,670
So I wish we could split this and send forward approval for

2951
02:42:40,670 --> 02:42:44,639
unit 17 so that you can start construction tomorrow.

2952
02:42:44,639 --> 02:42:49,920
But I don't think it's possible for us to split and have a

2953
02:42:49,920 --> 02:42:55,649
partial plan go forward while the other half of the plan

2954
02:42:55,649 --> 02:42:56,639
gets revised.

2955
02:42:56,639 --> 02:43:00,569
Without a second. So as far as Commissioner Hesbos brought

2956
02:43:00,569 --> 02:43:04,719
up, I would be all for that. But it's just not procedurally

2957
02:43:04,719 --> 02:43:05,639
possible.

2958
02:43:05,639 --> 02:43:11,090
And I would be amenable to the recommendation with all the

2959
02:43:11,090 --> 02:43:12,639
conditions.

2960
02:43:12,639 --> 02:43:15,139
But again, I don't I don't feel that comfortable just

2961
02:43:15,139 --> 02:43:17,920
saying for staff to decide. I really think we do need to

2962
02:43:17,920 --> 02:43:19,639
lay them out as best as possible.

2963
02:43:19,639 --> 02:43:24,409
Since my motion doesn't have a second, I suppose I can

2964
02:43:24,409 --> 02:43:26,639
substitute a new motion.

2965
02:43:26,639 --> 02:43:28,639
You have to withdraw your original motion.

2966
02:43:28,639 --> 02:43:30,959
Okay. So I guess I will withdraw my original motion. Let

2967
02:43:30,959 --> 02:43:33,639
the conversation carry on.

2968
02:43:33,639 --> 02:43:35,860
I'm going to speak up just a sec before I recognize our

2969
02:43:35,860 --> 02:43:39,639
next speaker. Our next meeting is December the 14th.

2970
02:43:39,639 --> 02:43:42,959
Obviously, you can see how much trouble we're trying to

2971
02:43:42,959 --> 02:43:47,670
come up with, how to deny it, approve it, conditions to put

2972
02:43:47,670 --> 02:43:48,639
on it.

2973
02:43:48,639 --> 02:43:52,209
We have the option to continue this again to the 14th and

2974
02:43:52,209 --> 02:43:55,360
give you all the option to clean this up, get with staff

2975
02:43:55,360 --> 02:43:56,639
and bring it back to us.

2976
02:43:56,639 --> 02:44:01,780
And it's clean and it's done versus us trying to figure out

2977
02:44:01,780 --> 02:44:05,639
somehow a way to do it by the fly up here.

2978
02:44:05,639 --> 02:44:09,239
Is that something you all would like to kick around and

2979
02:44:09,239 --> 02:44:12,790
right quick and let us know while I recognize our next

2980
02:44:12,790 --> 02:44:13,639
speaker?

2981
02:44:13,639 --> 02:44:16,219
We're going to try to get this moved on because I know we

2982
02:44:16,219 --> 02:44:18,750
've got lots of other people out here this evening that

2983
02:44:18,750 --> 02:44:19,639
would like to have their project heard.

2984
02:44:19,639 --> 02:44:22,639
I hope that they're prepared and ready to move forward.

2985
02:44:22,639 --> 02:44:23,639
Yes.

2986
02:44:23,639 --> 02:44:27,209
So I'm going to recognize Commissioner Hudsworth and if you

2987
02:44:27,209 --> 02:44:29,639
all will let us know about the 14th.

2988
02:44:29,639 --> 02:44:33,639
So I have a question for legal.

2989
02:44:33,639 --> 02:44:40,510
In our commission's commission, if you will, does people's

2990
02:44:40,510 --> 02:44:43,639
property rights fall in?

2991
02:44:43,639 --> 02:44:49,329
Is that our job? Is that lined out in our responsibility to

2992
02:44:49,329 --> 02:44:53,639
protect people's -- I'll give you a hypothetical.

2993
02:44:53,639 --> 02:44:59,659
Is that the responsibility of the commission to purchase

2994
02:44:59,659 --> 02:45:04,659
some property and then is it this commission's

2995
02:45:04,659 --> 02:45:06,829
responsibility to protect the property in which they

2996
02:45:06,829 --> 02:45:07,639
purchase and the agreements they're in?

2997
02:45:07,639 --> 02:45:12,920
You may have heard that type of analysis probably called a

2998
02:45:12,920 --> 02:45:16,639
different term, compatibility of uses, where you're looking

2999
02:45:16,639 --> 02:45:20,989
to make sure where their particular use is compatible with

3000
02:45:20,989 --> 02:45:21,639
the surrounding land uses.

3001
02:45:21,639 --> 02:45:24,840
Whether this type of use, what type of impacts would it

3002
02:45:24,840 --> 02:45:27,639
have on adjoining use or surrounding uses?

3003
02:45:27,639 --> 02:45:32,920
And that in the cases where you have existing built homes

3004
02:45:32,920 --> 02:45:37,049
or structures and unbuilt, that would be a factor you'd

3005
02:45:37,049 --> 02:45:37,639
look in.

3006
02:45:37,639 --> 02:45:41,280
You're not really saying these people don't want this in

3007
02:45:41,280 --> 02:45:42,639
their backyard.

3008
02:45:42,639 --> 02:45:46,760
In essence, you are performing some of that analysis in the

3009
02:45:46,760 --> 02:45:48,639
compatibility of uses.

3010
02:45:48,639 --> 02:45:50,639
So one follow-up to that.

3011
02:45:50,639 --> 02:45:53,670
Given the hypothetical, someone purchased a property, they

3012
02:45:53,670 --> 02:45:56,459
disagreed that they were told in advance what's going to be

3013
02:45:56,459 --> 02:45:57,639
in their backyard.

3014
02:45:57,639 --> 02:46:01,639
Does that still fall into our purview?

3015
02:46:01,639 --> 02:46:06,209
That would be more -- whatever promises they were made by

3016
02:46:06,209 --> 02:46:11,379
the developer, that's a private party agreement or a

3017
02:46:11,379 --> 02:46:12,639
promise.

3018
02:46:12,639 --> 02:46:14,639
It's not anything involving the city.

3019
02:46:14,639 --> 02:46:23,639
I agree.

3020
02:46:23,639 --> 02:46:24,639
Commissioner Tyler.

3021
02:46:24,639 --> 02:46:26,639
Thank you, Chair.

3022
02:46:26,639 --> 02:46:28,639
Before I recognize it, I'm sorry.

3023
02:46:28,639 --> 02:46:30,639
Did you all have a response for the 14th?

3024
02:46:30,639 --> 02:46:31,639
I wanted to.

3025
02:46:31,639 --> 02:46:32,639
I didn't want to interrupt you.

3026
02:46:32,639 --> 02:46:36,120
In terms of the terms of events that's left us here tonight

3027
02:46:36,120 --> 02:46:39,250
, regrettable terms of events that isn't the clear

3028
02:46:39,250 --> 02:46:42,639
presentation that we all would have liked to have.

3029
02:46:42,639 --> 02:46:44,639
Our vast preference would be to move forward.

3030
02:46:44,639 --> 02:46:48,950
We're requesting a decision tonight under the stipulations,

3031
02:46:48,950 --> 02:46:53,319
a handful, if it's a buffer zone, say 20 feet, if it's no

3032
02:46:53,319 --> 02:46:57,500
facades facing, and none side by side, and of course none

3033
02:46:57,500 --> 02:46:58,639
in the hatched area.

3034
02:46:58,639 --> 02:47:02,739
We would greatly appreciate to have that approved tonight,

3035
02:47:02,739 --> 02:47:03,639
of course.

3036
02:47:03,639 --> 02:47:05,639
Up and down, rather, continuance.

3037
02:47:05,639 --> 02:47:06,639
Yes, sir.

3038
02:47:06,639 --> 02:47:07,639
Okay.

3039
02:47:07,639 --> 02:47:08,639
Thank you.

3040
02:47:08,639 --> 02:47:09,639
Commissioner Tyler.

3041
02:47:09,639 --> 02:47:10,639
Thank you, Chair.

3042
02:47:10,639 --> 02:47:14,389
In regard to whether this is about property values or

3043
02:47:14,389 --> 02:47:18,219
something like that, I think for me this is more about

3044
02:47:18,219 --> 02:47:20,639
consistency in development.

3045
02:47:20,639 --> 02:47:25,739
The only category that allows single family homes and

3046
02:47:25,739 --> 02:47:31,659
attached dwellings by right in our code is NR6, which is a

3047
02:47:31,659 --> 02:47:36,340
pretty restrictive small lot line zoning that is used very

3048
02:47:36,340 --> 02:47:39,040
rarely and is very contentious every time we put it in a

3049
02:47:39,040 --> 02:47:39,639
neighborhood.

3050
02:47:39,639 --> 02:47:44,170
And it tends to be a buffer between apartments and either a

3051
02:47:44,170 --> 02:47:47,639
commercial area or a single family area.

3052
02:47:47,639 --> 02:47:51,959
And people come out with pitchforks whenever a developer

3053
02:47:51,959 --> 02:47:57,639
wants to put in 100 acres of NR6 next to existing NR4, NR3.

3054
02:47:57,639 --> 02:48:05,819
So that continuity of use and compatible uses next to each

3055
02:48:05,819 --> 02:48:11,379
other is the issue here. It is possible, and NR4 and NR3

3056
02:48:11,379 --> 02:48:14,120
allow with specific use permit to put duplexes inside of

3057
02:48:14,120 --> 02:48:17,040
those more traditional single family zoning, but that's

3058
02:48:17,040 --> 02:48:17,639
pretty rare.

3059
02:48:17,639 --> 02:48:20,639
And they're well designed and well laid out.

3060
02:48:20,639 --> 02:48:24,760
And your proposing is well designed and well laid out, so

3061
02:48:24,760 --> 02:48:29,040
it kind of follows that NR4 plus some nice duplexes tucked

3062
02:48:29,040 --> 02:48:29,639
in.

3063
02:48:29,639 --> 02:48:34,500
Normally we vote up or down every single duplex development

3064
02:48:34,500 --> 02:48:35,639
like that.

3065
02:48:35,639 --> 02:48:38,719
And so to come forward with, you know, this anywhere in

3066
02:48:38,719 --> 02:48:41,850
yellow, I understand that you all are trying to protect

3067
02:48:41,850 --> 02:48:45,049
your investment and you're not going to, you know, shoot

3068
02:48:45,049 --> 02:48:47,639
yourselves in the foot or destroy value.

3069
02:48:47,639 --> 02:48:51,639
This is different than every other area of the city.

3070
02:48:51,639 --> 02:48:55,420
And it's not consistent with, you know, our normal

3071
02:48:55,420 --> 02:48:57,639
residential development.

3072
02:48:57,639 --> 02:48:59,049
And that's why we want to do some restrictions. We want to

3073
02:48:59,049 --> 02:49:01,639
give you the flexibility to put in more of these units.

3074
02:49:01,639 --> 02:49:06,379
And I think it's great, higher density, less maintenance,

3075
02:49:06,379 --> 02:49:08,639
easier for the residents.

3076
02:49:08,639 --> 02:49:11,840
It fits a need in the type of housing. So all of these

3077
02:49:11,840 --> 02:49:14,639
things are really wonderful.

3078
02:49:14,639 --> 02:49:17,639
And that's why we had the six requirements.

3079
02:49:17,639 --> 02:49:22,479
So I guess I'm going to make a motion to approve with

3080
02:49:22,479 --> 02:49:28,290
additional with the recommendations that is on the item now

3081
02:49:28,290 --> 02:49:37,639
, as well as a set of recommendations or set of conditions.

3082
02:49:37,639 --> 02:49:43,350
First, all Villa lots shall be located in a unit that is

3083
02:49:43,350 --> 02:49:45,639
solely Villa lots.

3084
02:49:45,639 --> 02:49:49,639
Second, all second. We're writing that. I'm sorry.

3085
02:49:49,639 --> 02:49:51,639
Okay. This moment to catch it.

3086
02:49:51,639 --> 02:50:00,170
All Villa lots or SFV lots shall be located in a unit that

3087
02:50:00,170 --> 02:50:03,639
is solely SFV lots.

3088
02:50:03,639 --> 02:50:09,069
The second additional condition is all SFV lots shall be

3089
02:50:09,069 --> 02:50:17,809
separated from SFC, SFP and SFL lots by at least 20 feet of

3090
02:50:17,809 --> 02:50:21,639
golf course park or open space.

3091
02:50:21,639 --> 02:50:29,670
By at least 20 feet of golf course golf course park or open

3092
02:50:29,670 --> 02:50:30,639
space.

3093
02:50:30,639 --> 02:50:34,639
Not road can't be across the road from each other.

3094
02:50:34,639 --> 02:50:45,690
No SFV lot shall be located directly adjacent across a

3095
02:50:45,690 --> 02:50:52,639
street from an SFC, SFP or SFL lot.

3096
02:50:52,639 --> 02:50:57,290
That that would the way you've worded that that's located

3097
02:50:57,290 --> 02:51:00,639
directly adjacent across the street. That means they face

3098
02:51:00,639 --> 02:51:00,639
each other.

3099
02:51:00,639 --> 02:51:03,370
But if they're if they're one house down, then it doesn't

3100
02:51:03,370 --> 02:51:04,639
meet that condition.

3101
02:51:04,639 --> 02:51:08,639
That would be okay.

3102
02:51:08,639 --> 02:51:10,639
That's the problem with trying to.

3103
02:51:10,639 --> 02:51:14,969
Yeah, this is this is this is the fun part of writing laws

3104
02:51:14,969 --> 02:51:15,639
up here.

3105
02:51:15,639 --> 02:51:16,639
Within the pod.

3106
02:51:16,639 --> 02:51:17,639
Yes, sir.

3107
02:51:17,639 --> 02:51:17,639
Okay.

3108
02:51:17,639 --> 02:51:20,979
Yeah, unless unless there's some units are across the

3109
02:51:20,979 --> 02:51:24,639
street from each other. Okay, so you could have.

3110
02:51:24,639 --> 02:51:27,239
And I believe there was one more. I'm trying to figure out

3111
02:51:27,239 --> 02:51:27,639
what it was.

3112
02:51:27,639 --> 02:51:30,639
Anybody has any.

3113
02:51:30,639 --> 02:51:34,639
That's the across the street.

3114
02:51:34,639 --> 02:51:39,639
Oh, and it's a blue line to 25 to 25 dash two.

3115
02:51:39,639 --> 02:51:45,770
And the the blue line and restriction on not changing or

3116
02:51:45,770 --> 02:51:51,950
not allowing SFV lots shall be extended to include all of

3117
02:51:51,950 --> 02:51:53,639
unit 25 to.

3118
02:51:53,639 --> 02:52:03,639
Yes, sir.

3119
02:52:03,639 --> 02:52:07,260
I have a motion on the floor to have a second or a friendly

3120
02:52:07,260 --> 02:52:09,639
amendment if we miss something.

3121
02:52:09,639 --> 02:52:12,639
I I can't second it.

3122
02:52:12,639 --> 02:52:16,639
I'll second that motion just for clarity, though.

3123
02:52:16,639 --> 02:52:23,049
In in your language, if a backyard street backyard, that is

3124
02:52:23,049 --> 02:52:29,639
okay to cross product types.

3125
02:52:29,639 --> 02:52:34,670
I don't I didn't actually word it that way. I don't think

3126
02:52:34,670 --> 02:52:37,639
do you have backyard street backyard.

3127
02:52:37,639 --> 02:52:39,639
Some cases are arterial roads.

3128
02:52:39,639 --> 02:52:40,639
Yeah, arterials.

3129
02:52:40,639 --> 02:52:43,639
Oh, yeah, I don't know.

3130
02:52:43,639 --> 02:52:47,209
Okay. So would you like to make a friendly amendment to

3131
02:52:47,209 --> 02:52:47,639
adjust that?

3132
02:52:47,639 --> 02:52:51,639
Why does mine include the 20 foot barrier to include

3133
02:52:51,639 --> 02:52:52,639
concrete or roads?

3134
02:52:52,639 --> 02:52:57,370
But then if the how do you do out the side, not the front,

3135
02:52:57,370 --> 02:52:59,639
you're the corner lot.

3136
02:52:59,639 --> 02:53:04,729
When the cluster if you look at the if you look at the unit

3137
02:53:04,729 --> 02:53:07,549
layouts, there are units that are directly across the

3138
02:53:07,549 --> 02:53:09,639
street like you the east side of the streets.

3139
02:53:09,639 --> 02:53:13,639
One unit, the west side of the streets, another unit.

3140
02:53:13,639 --> 02:53:17,639
I think if if I may.

3141
02:53:17,639 --> 02:53:20,040
We'll let them finish and make sure we've got our first and

3142
02:53:20,040 --> 02:53:22,639
second squared away and then we'll open for discussion.

3143
02:53:22,639 --> 02:53:33,639
So do you have a map in front of you, Mr. Taylor?

3144
02:53:33,639 --> 02:53:35,639
So would you like an example?

3145
02:53:35,639 --> 02:53:39,450
Well, I'm just wondering, like above twenty seven to there

3146
02:53:39,450 --> 02:53:41,639
's that little thirty two unit.

3147
02:53:41,639 --> 02:53:44,639
But above that's like thirty three touches thirty seven.

3148
02:53:44,639 --> 02:53:47,850
Right. So the language you used would prohibit thirty three

3149
02:53:47,850 --> 02:53:49,639
or thirty seven being villas.

3150
02:53:49,639 --> 02:53:52,639
But thirty two could be a villa.

3151
02:53:52,639 --> 02:53:55,680
Well, thirty three could be a villa if they had a twenty

3152
02:53:55,680 --> 02:53:57,639
foot buffer up to thirty seven.

3153
02:53:57,639 --> 02:54:00,639
Yeah. Like they would have to do the backyard buffer.

3154
02:54:00,639 --> 02:54:02,639
Perfect. That makes sense.

3155
02:54:02,639 --> 02:54:06,639
I'm good with the second. I second the motion.

3156
02:54:06,639 --> 02:54:11,110
OK, we have a first and a second to approve with a number

3157
02:54:11,110 --> 02:54:12,639
of conditions.

3158
02:54:12,639 --> 02:54:15,639
Commissioner Husband.

3159
02:54:15,639 --> 02:54:17,639
You're good. OK.

3160
02:54:17,639 --> 02:54:19,639
All right. We've got a first and a second.

3161
02:54:19,639 --> 02:54:21,639
Any further discussion?

3162
02:54:21,639 --> 02:54:23,639
Comment.

3163
02:54:23,639 --> 02:54:24,639
Commissioner Ellis.

3164
02:54:24,639 --> 02:54:25,639
Thank you, Chair.

3165
02:54:25,639 --> 02:54:28,340
I guess I would have to ask the applicant if they're OK

3166
02:54:28,340 --> 02:54:30,639
with all of these conditions as written.

3167
02:54:30,639 --> 02:54:32,959
We are and we appreciate the cooperation and effort at

3168
02:54:32,959 --> 02:54:34,639
resolving this given all the time.

3169
02:54:34,639 --> 02:54:39,639
And thank you for it.

3170
02:54:39,639 --> 02:54:43,639
Anybody else for a call for a vote on board?

3171
02:54:43,639 --> 02:54:46,510
My only comment is I hope we've moved it forward and we

3172
02:54:46,510 --> 02:54:49,149
haven't stepped on and made a bigger mess than we fixed

3173
02:54:49,149 --> 02:54:49,639
tonight.

3174
02:54:49,639 --> 02:54:51,639
So good luck at council.

3175
02:54:51,639 --> 02:54:54,639
And we've done our best to get you to the next spot.

3176
02:54:54,639 --> 02:54:57,639
And I don't think anybody here was opposed to your project.

3177
02:54:57,639 --> 02:55:01,049
We just wanted you all to draft the language rather than us

3178
02:55:01,049 --> 02:55:04,219
so that we could move your project forward and not create

3179
02:55:04,219 --> 02:55:04,639
an issue.

3180
02:55:04,639 --> 02:55:07,040
At least that's I'm going to speak for myself, my intent

3181
02:55:07,040 --> 02:55:09,639
and I think several other commissioners have said that.

3182
02:55:09,639 --> 02:55:10,639
So I hope we've done that.

3183
02:55:10,639 --> 02:55:20,639
And I'm going to call for a vote on the board.

3184
02:55:20,639 --> 02:55:31,639
Sure.

3185
02:55:31,639 --> 02:55:34,639
We need to do a handbook.

3186
02:55:34,639 --> 02:55:35,639
We can do whatever.

3187
02:55:35,639 --> 02:55:37,639
Can I have a question?

3188
02:55:37,639 --> 02:55:38,639
Yes.

3189
02:55:38,639 --> 02:55:39,639
Thank you, Chair.

3190
02:55:39,639 --> 02:55:42,639
Can I have it?

3191
02:55:42,639 --> 02:55:45,639
Restate the motion, please.

3192
02:55:45,639 --> 02:55:46,639
I appreciate it.

3193
02:55:46,639 --> 02:55:47,639
Sorry.

3194
02:55:47,639 --> 02:55:50,639
Commissioner Taylor, would you like to restate your motion?

3195
02:55:50,639 --> 02:55:51,639
I'm going to let you have that one.

3196
02:55:51,639 --> 02:56:02,639
Thank you.

3197
02:56:02,639 --> 02:56:03,290
Approval with a recommended approval to city council with

3198
02:56:03,290 --> 02:56:04,639
the original condition in our backup.

3199
02:56:04,639 --> 02:56:10,639
Plus all Villa lot shall be located in a unit that is

3200
02:56:10,639 --> 02:56:10,639
solely Villa lots.

3201
02:56:10,639 --> 02:56:14,459
All Villa lots shall be separated from other single family

3202
02:56:14,459 --> 02:56:19,639
lots by at least 20 feet of golf course park or open space.

3203
02:56:19,639 --> 02:56:27,219
No Villa lot shall be located directly adjacent across the

3204
02:56:27,219 --> 02:56:34,639
street from one of the other single family lot types.

3205
02:56:34,639 --> 02:56:52,629
So the unit 25 to shall retain its existing use or category

3206
02:56:52,629 --> 02:56:52,639
.

3207
02:56:52,639 --> 02:56:57,639
Are we able to get a vote on the board with conditions?

3208
02:56:57,639 --> 02:56:58,639
All illegal?

3209
02:56:58,639 --> 02:57:03,920
I just wanted to add that the blue line concept and all

3210
02:57:03,920 --> 02:57:06,200
that, I might change it and actually reference like

3211
02:57:06,200 --> 02:57:06,639
Commissioner Ellis said within its original configuration.

3212
02:57:06,639 --> 02:57:09,850
And the only reason why is that these documents get scanned

3213
02:57:09,850 --> 02:57:12,639
in laser fish and they're not scanned in color.

3214
02:57:12,639 --> 02:57:15,639
So when you say blue line, in five, 10 years from now,

3215
02:57:15,639 --> 02:57:18,639
nobody's going to know what you were talking about.

3216
02:57:18,639 --> 02:57:29,649
And so I will word that in such a way to include it using

3217
02:57:29,649 --> 02:57:36,639
Commissioner Ellis's suggestion.

3218
02:57:36,639 --> 02:57:41,639
You want us to do a hand vote?

3219
02:57:41,639 --> 02:57:45,639
Hasn't come up yet.

3220
02:57:45,639 --> 02:57:46,639
Here we are.

3221
02:57:46,639 --> 02:57:48,639
All right.

3222
02:57:48,639 --> 02:57:57,520
Please vote on the board and a motion to approve with

3223
02:57:57,520 --> 02:57:59,639
conditions.

3224
02:57:59,639 --> 02:58:01,639
Motion carries six to zero.

3225
02:58:01,639 --> 02:58:02,639
Good luck with your project.

3226
02:58:02,639 --> 02:58:04,639
Thank you all very much for your time and effort.

3227
02:58:04,639 --> 02:58:05,639
It's greatly appreciated.

3228
02:58:05,639 --> 02:58:10,639
Likewise, staff.

3229
02:58:10,639 --> 02:58:15,760
We'll move us on to our next item this evening, item B,

3230
02:58:15,760 --> 02:58:18,639
which is PZ 16-188.

3231
02:58:18,639 --> 02:58:21,030
That will be considered approval of our planning and zoning

3232
02:58:21,030 --> 02:58:22,639
commission calendar for next year.

3233
02:58:22,639 --> 02:58:26,639
And I don't know who will make that presentation.

3234
02:58:26,639 --> 02:58:33,639
Do we have a presenter or we just?

3235
02:58:33,639 --> 02:58:36,639
Okay.

3236
02:58:36,639 --> 02:58:38,819
Well, just like our minutes, I'm going to treat this just

3237
02:58:38,819 --> 02:58:39,639
like our minutes.

3238
02:58:39,639 --> 02:58:44,200
The calendar is in our packet for everyone to review and

3239
02:58:44,200 --> 02:58:45,639
public to review.

3240
02:58:45,639 --> 02:58:49,209
And unless legal has got a I just remember what the

3241
02:58:49,209 --> 02:58:51,639
previous plan directors would say with respect to this item

3242
02:58:51,639 --> 02:58:51,639
.

3243
02:58:51,639 --> 02:58:54,639
It's basically this is before you for consideration.

3244
02:58:54,639 --> 02:58:56,979
You've had an opportunity to look at the dates on the

3245
02:58:56,979 --> 02:58:57,639
calendar.

3246
02:58:57,639 --> 02:59:01,739
Is there anything dates there that may not be compatible

3247
02:59:01,739 --> 02:59:05,639
with this commission or, you know, the fall on a holiday?

3248
02:59:05,639 --> 02:59:11,299
Sometimes that happens. If not, then a motion was called

3249
02:59:11,299 --> 02:59:13,639
and seconded.

3250
02:59:13,639 --> 02:59:14,639
Commissioner Ellis.

3251
02:59:14,639 --> 02:59:15,639
Thank you, Chair.

3252
02:59:15,639 --> 02:59:19,889
I make a motion to approve the 2017 planning and zoning

3253
02:59:19,889 --> 02:59:21,639
commission calendar.

3254
02:59:21,639 --> 02:59:22,639
Commissioner Rozelle.

3255
02:59:22,639 --> 02:59:24,639
I second the motion.

3256
02:59:24,639 --> 02:59:26,639
Have a first and second. Any discussion?

3257
02:59:26,639 --> 02:59:30,639
Any conflicts on the calendar?

3258
02:59:30,639 --> 02:59:48,639
Seeing none, I call for a vote on the board.

3259
02:59:48,639 --> 02:59:50,639
Motion carries six to zero.

3260
02:59:50,639 --> 02:59:53,840
That will move us to our public hearing section this

3261
02:59:53,840 --> 02:59:54,639
evening.

3262
02:59:54,639 --> 03:00:12,200
I'm going to open the public hearing for F.R. 16-0024 and I

3263
03:00:12,200 --> 03:00:23,639
will call on Haley Zagurski for presentation.

3264
03:00:23,639 --> 03:00:24,639
Good evening.

3265
03:00:24,639 --> 03:00:27,639
I'm Haley Zagurski with the planning department.

3266
03:00:27,639 --> 03:00:32,639
So this is F.R. 16-0024.

3267
03:00:32,639 --> 03:00:36,639
It's a final plat of lot 2R of the FM Darnell edition.

3268
03:00:36,639 --> 03:00:40,219
And the purpose of this replat is to combine three existing

3269
03:00:40,219 --> 03:00:44,219
lots into a single lot for the intent to develop a pastoral

3270
03:00:44,219 --> 03:00:47,079
center on the east side of McCormick Street just south of

3271
03:00:47,079 --> 03:00:47,639
Eagle Drive.

3272
03:00:47,639 --> 03:00:51,639
And if you have any questions, I can answer those now.

3273
03:00:51,639 --> 03:00:56,639
Any questions for staff?

3274
03:00:56,639 --> 03:01:01,639
Thank you, Haley.

3275
03:01:01,639 --> 03:01:03,639
Again, this is a public hearing.

3276
03:01:03,639 --> 03:01:08,469
Anyone who would like to speak on this item, please come

3277
03:01:08,469 --> 03:01:10,639
forward at this time.

3278
03:01:10,639 --> 03:01:13,649
Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing and chair will

3279
03:01:13,649 --> 03:01:15,639
entertain a motion or discussion.

3280
03:01:15,639 --> 03:01:17,639
Commissioner Taylor.

3281
03:01:17,639 --> 03:01:20,639
I move approval of final replat.

3282
03:01:20,639 --> 03:01:21,639
Commissioner Hesmuth.

3283
03:01:21,639 --> 03:01:22,639
I second.

3284
03:01:22,639 --> 03:01:23,639
Okay.

3285
03:01:23,639 --> 03:01:25,639
We have a first and a second for approval.

3286
03:01:25,639 --> 03:01:30,639
Any discussion?

3287
03:01:30,639 --> 03:01:34,639
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

3288
03:01:34,639 --> 03:01:56,639
Motion carries 6-0.

3289
03:01:56,639 --> 03:02:04,870
Next item will be item B, and I'm going to open the public

3290
03:02:04,870 --> 03:02:14,870
hearing for FR15-0022 and call on Julie Wyatt for that

3291
03:02:14,870 --> 03:02:17,639
presentation.

3292
03:02:17,639 --> 03:02:18,639
Good evening.

3293
03:02:18,639 --> 03:02:19,639
I'm Julie Wyatt.

3294
03:02:19,639 --> 03:02:24,290
This is a replat of a piece of property in order to develop

3295
03:02:24,290 --> 03:02:26,639
the site with townhomes.

3296
03:02:26,639 --> 03:02:33,639
And I'll stand for any questions.

3297
03:02:33,639 --> 03:02:34,639
Commissioner Ellis.

3298
03:02:34,639 --> 03:02:35,639
Thank you, Chair.

3299
03:02:35,639 --> 03:02:39,569
Julie, just for clarification, no notice is went out for

3300
03:02:39,569 --> 03:02:42,639
this because it's not a zoning change?

3301
03:02:42,639 --> 03:02:44,639
It is not a zoning change.

3302
03:02:44,639 --> 03:02:47,690
A replat does require a public notification in the

3303
03:02:47,690 --> 03:02:48,639
newspaper.

3304
03:02:48,639 --> 03:02:52,030
If a property has a zoning designation on it that limits it

3305
03:02:52,030 --> 03:02:55,620
to single-family homes, duplexes or single-family homes,

3306
03:02:55,620 --> 03:03:02,120
then you would be required to send a mailing notice through

3307
03:03:02,120 --> 03:03:05,280
the mail since this doesn't have a zoning designation that

3308
03:03:05,280 --> 03:03:12,639
limits it to either of those uses and one wasn't required.

3309
03:03:12,639 --> 03:03:13,639
Thank you, Julie.

3310
03:03:13,639 --> 03:03:15,639
Again, this is a public hearing.

3311
03:03:15,639 --> 03:03:21,549
Anyone here who would like to speak on this item, please

3312
03:03:21,549 --> 03:03:24,639
come forward at this time.

3313
03:03:24,639 --> 03:03:29,629
Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing and open the

3314
03:03:29,629 --> 03:03:32,639
floor for discussion or motion.

3315
03:03:32,639 --> 03:03:34,639
Commissioner Hussbuth.

3316
03:03:34,639 --> 03:03:38,639
Move approval.

3317
03:03:38,639 --> 03:03:39,639
Commissioner O'Zell.

3318
03:03:39,639 --> 03:03:41,639
I second the motion.

3319
03:03:41,639 --> 03:03:43,639
I have a first and a second for approval.

3320
03:03:43,639 --> 03:03:48,639
Any discussion?

3321
03:03:48,639 --> 03:04:01,639
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

3322
03:04:01,639 --> 03:04:09,639
Motion carries six to zero.

3323
03:04:09,639 --> 03:04:15,850
I move us to item C. I'm going to open the public hearing

3324
03:04:15,850 --> 03:04:26,870
for FR 16-0022 and we'll call on Julie Wyatt for the

3325
03:04:26,870 --> 03:04:30,639
presentation.

3326
03:04:30,639 --> 03:04:38,639
Did I do the right one?

3327
03:04:38,639 --> 03:04:49,639
Sorry, I have the wrong one.

3328
03:04:49,639 --> 03:04:50,639
There we go.

3329
03:04:50,639 --> 03:04:58,639
Sorry about that.

3330
03:04:58,639 --> 03:04:59,639
All right.

3331
03:04:59,639 --> 03:05:03,739
This request is for a replat for an industrial development

3332
03:05:03,739 --> 03:05:05,639
on the west side of town.

3333
03:05:05,639 --> 03:05:09,370
They're not proposing to reconfigure the lots, merely to

3334
03:05:09,370 --> 03:05:13,700
modify some existing easements as well as dedicate a new

3335
03:05:13,700 --> 03:05:17,639
pipeline easement or reflect it on the plat.

3336
03:05:17,639 --> 03:05:20,639
So I'll stand for any questions.

3337
03:05:20,639 --> 03:05:27,639
Any questions for staff?

3338
03:05:27,639 --> 03:05:29,639
Seeing none, thank you, Julie.

3339
03:05:29,639 --> 03:05:31,639
Again, this is a public hearing.

3340
03:05:31,639 --> 03:05:35,750
Anyone who would like to speak on this item, please come

3341
03:05:35,750 --> 03:05:37,639
forward at this time.

3342
03:05:37,639 --> 03:05:43,770
Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing and open the

3343
03:05:43,770 --> 03:05:47,639
floor for discussion or motion.

3344
03:05:47,639 --> 03:05:49,639
Commissioner O'Zell.

3345
03:05:49,639 --> 03:05:57,639
I move to approve item FR 16-0022.

3346
03:05:57,639 --> 03:06:01,639
I will second that motion.

3347
03:06:01,639 --> 03:06:03,639
Motion for first and second for approval.

3348
03:06:03,639 --> 03:06:07,639
Any discussion?

3349
03:06:07,639 --> 03:06:18,639
Seeing none, we'll call for a vote on the board.

3350
03:06:18,639 --> 03:06:22,639
Motion carries 6-0.

3351
03:06:22,639 --> 03:06:23,639
We'll move us to item D.

3352
03:06:23,639 --> 03:06:30,639
We'll open the public hearing for FR 16-0004A.

3353
03:06:30,639 --> 03:06:33,639
I'll call on Julie Wyatt for that presentation.

3354
03:06:33,639 --> 03:06:35,639
Last time I'm coming up tonight.

3355
03:06:35,639 --> 03:06:36,639
All right.

3356
03:06:36,639 --> 03:06:39,739
This is a replat for a piece of property for Denton ISD

3357
03:06:39,739 --> 03:06:41,639
Administration Building.

3358
03:06:41,639 --> 03:06:45,209
This one did require a written notification because it does

3359
03:06:45,209 --> 03:06:48,500
have an NR3 zoning district which does limit the uses to

3360
03:06:48,500 --> 03:06:49,639
single family.

3361
03:06:49,639 --> 03:06:54,639
So this one actually did have a mailing component to it.

3362
03:06:54,639 --> 03:06:58,920
They are requesting a replat in order to combine all the

3363
03:06:58,920 --> 03:07:02,440
lots and abandon a public alley in order to redevelop the

3364
03:07:02,440 --> 03:07:07,799
site or add some new development to the site for the Denton

3365
03:07:07,799 --> 03:07:08,639
ISD Administration Building.

3366
03:07:08,639 --> 03:07:11,639
So I'll stand for any questions.

3367
03:07:11,639 --> 03:07:12,639
Commissioner Tyler.

3368
03:07:12,639 --> 03:07:14,639
Thank you, Chair.

3369
03:07:14,639 --> 03:07:16,639
This is novel to me.

3370
03:07:16,639 --> 03:07:21,760
The abandoning of a public alley is I guess because the

3371
03:07:21,760 --> 03:07:26,639
city controls it, the city can just abandon it at any time?

3372
03:07:26,639 --> 03:07:29,639
This was, because I checked with real estate to make sure,

3373
03:07:29,639 --> 03:07:33,209
this was the right mechanism in order to abandon that

3374
03:07:33,209 --> 03:07:36,639
because they own all the properties around it.

3375
03:07:36,639 --> 03:07:43,219
So because they control that entire block, then this is how

3376
03:07:43,219 --> 03:07:43,639
.

3377
03:07:43,639 --> 03:07:47,309
Okay. So it's similar like I guess a street right of way

3378
03:07:47,309 --> 03:07:47,639
abandonment.

3379
03:07:47,639 --> 03:07:50,819
If you did have a street that was surrounded like an old

3380
03:07:50,819 --> 03:07:52,639
cul-de-sac or something.

3381
03:07:52,639 --> 03:07:55,700
Well, Gary Street actually adjacent to it, they are looking

3382
03:07:55,700 --> 03:07:58,639
to abandon that and that does have to go to city council.

3383
03:07:58,639 --> 03:08:02,639
So that is treated a little differently than this alley.

3384
03:08:02,639 --> 03:08:03,639
So just alleys.

3385
03:08:03,639 --> 03:08:05,639
In this instance, yes.

3386
03:08:05,639 --> 03:08:08,639
I can't speak for all instances, but in this one, yes.

3387
03:08:08,639 --> 03:08:11,639
Thank you.

3388
03:08:11,639 --> 03:08:16,639
So you know the questions. Thank you, Julie.

3389
03:08:16,639 --> 03:08:20,209
I've got two letters to read in and then I have a card from

3390
03:08:20,209 --> 03:08:24,639
Mr. Coleman in support.

3391
03:08:24,639 --> 03:08:26,639
He does not wish to speak my apology.

3392
03:08:26,639 --> 03:08:28,639
I thought you wanted to speak, Bill.

3393
03:08:28,639 --> 03:08:29,639
He's in support of this.

3394
03:08:29,639 --> 03:08:32,639
Bill Coleman at 502 West Oak.

3395
03:08:32,639 --> 03:08:34,639
And I also have two other.

3396
03:08:34,639 --> 03:08:41,260
I have Eddie Lane at 111 West McKinney Street in favor of

3397
03:08:41,260 --> 03:08:42,639
the request.

3398
03:08:42,639 --> 03:08:47,639
And then I have Samuel Smith at 158 Village Estates Drive

3399
03:08:47,639 --> 03:08:49,639
in Highland Village, Texas.

3400
03:08:49,639 --> 03:08:51,639
That is opposed to the request.

3401
03:08:51,639 --> 03:08:55,639
Those are the only cards that we have on this item.

3402
03:08:55,639 --> 03:09:00,920
Anyone else who would like to speak on this item, please

3403
03:09:00,920 --> 03:09:03,639
come forward at this time.

3404
03:09:03,639 --> 03:09:06,639
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing.

3405
03:09:06,639 --> 03:09:09,840
And before I call for -- well, I'm going to call for

3406
03:09:09,840 --> 03:09:11,639
discussion or a motion.

3407
03:09:11,639 --> 03:09:12,639
I'm going to make a comment.

3408
03:09:12,639 --> 03:09:16,639
I want to applaud staff and DISD on this item.

3409
03:09:16,639 --> 03:09:18,639
I know this was before us several weeks ago.

3410
03:09:18,639 --> 03:09:21,930
And I'm glad to see that there was a good solution that was

3411
03:09:21,930 --> 03:09:26,219
worked out with the Zoning Board of Adjustment to get this

3412
03:09:26,219 --> 03:09:26,639
addressed

3413
03:09:26,639 --> 03:09:29,799
and for it to come back to us at this time to move it on

3414
03:09:29,799 --> 03:09:30,639
forward.

3415
03:09:30,639 --> 03:09:32,639
So good job, staff.

3416
03:09:32,639 --> 03:09:36,639
And I am going to recognize Commissioner Taylor.

3417
03:09:36,639 --> 03:09:37,639
Thank you, Chair.

3418
03:09:37,639 --> 03:09:41,639
I also would like to say this case worked out really well.

3419
03:09:41,639 --> 03:09:43,639
It was getting to be somewhat contentious.

3420
03:09:43,639 --> 03:09:47,620
And it found a nice solution at ZBA that balanced the needs

3421
03:09:47,620 --> 03:09:49,639
of all parties involved.

3422
03:09:49,639 --> 03:09:54,629
And with that, I'd like to recommend approval -- sorry,

3423
03:09:54,629 --> 03:09:56,639
move we approve.

3424
03:09:56,639 --> 03:09:59,639
Final replat 160004A.

3425
03:09:59,639 --> 03:10:00,639
Okay.

3426
03:10:00,639 --> 03:10:02,639
Commissioner Rizzo.

3427
03:10:02,639 --> 03:10:04,639
I too echo the opinions of the other commissioners.

3428
03:10:04,639 --> 03:10:06,639
I'm glad to see that this was resolved.

3429
03:10:06,639 --> 03:10:07,639
I was excited about the project.

3430
03:10:07,639 --> 03:10:09,639
So great work.

3431
03:10:09,639 --> 03:10:11,639
And I second the motion.

3432
03:10:11,639 --> 03:10:12,639
Okay.

3433
03:10:12,639 --> 03:10:13,639
We have a first and second for approval.

3434
03:10:13,639 --> 03:10:17,639
Any other discussion or comments?

3435
03:10:17,639 --> 03:10:28,639
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

3436
03:10:28,639 --> 03:10:31,639
Motion carries 6-0.

3437
03:10:31,639 --> 03:10:33,639
We'll move us to item E.

3438
03:10:33,639 --> 03:10:39,639
I'm going to open the public hearing for HL16-0005

3439
03:10:39,639 --> 03:10:42,639
and call on Roman McAllen for presentation.

3440
03:10:58,639 --> 03:10:59,639
Okay.

3441
03:10:59,639 --> 03:11:01,639
Good evening.

3442
03:11:01,639 --> 03:11:03,639
Good evening, commissioners.

3443
03:11:03,639 --> 03:11:08,639
This is to designate the property at 716 West Oak Street.

3444
03:11:08,639 --> 03:11:12,639
And I'm looking for a recommendation to the city council

3445
03:11:12,639 --> 03:11:16,639
for approval of this as a historic landmark.

3446
03:11:16,639 --> 03:11:19,639
Just very quickly.

3447
03:11:19,639 --> 03:11:21,639
Sorry.

3448
03:11:21,639 --> 03:11:22,639
That's true.

3449
03:11:22,639 --> 03:11:29,639
7-07 you should be seeing is what we're talking about.

3450
03:11:29,639 --> 03:11:30,639
We do.

3451
03:11:30,639 --> 03:11:33,639
And it is 7 -- thank you for correcting.

3452
03:11:33,639 --> 03:11:35,639
717.

3453
03:11:35,639 --> 03:11:38,639
So it's correct on your agenda is what you're looking at.

3454
03:11:38,639 --> 03:11:40,639
And sorry about that.

3455
03:11:40,639 --> 03:11:43,639
The owners are Don and John Morris.

3456
03:11:43,639 --> 03:11:46,639
And why am I not getting this slide?

3457
03:11:46,639 --> 03:11:47,639
Here we go.

3458
03:11:47,639 --> 03:11:49,639
Sorry about that.

3459
03:11:49,639 --> 03:11:56,139
And as you know, this comes before you as a result of -- as

3460
03:11:56,139 --> 03:11:59,639
we're called of our development code.

3461
03:11:59,639 --> 03:12:03,639
And this is a property that was surveyed in 1996.

3462
03:12:03,639 --> 03:12:05,639
This is a very significant property.

3463
03:12:05,639 --> 03:12:08,639
It was designated as a high priority.

3464
03:12:08,639 --> 03:12:13,319
It meets three or more of the 13 criteria, only one of

3465
03:12:13,319 --> 03:12:15,639
which is needed for designation.

3466
03:12:15,639 --> 03:12:17,639
This is the home prior to its renovation.

3467
03:12:17,639 --> 03:12:19,639
This is the home today.

3468
03:12:19,639 --> 03:12:22,639
And we'll recommend approval of this request.

3469
03:12:22,639 --> 03:12:24,639
And I'll answer any questions.

3470
03:12:24,639 --> 03:12:25,639
I'm sorry.

3471
03:12:25,639 --> 03:12:26,639
Let me add one more thing.

3472
03:12:26,639 --> 03:12:30,209
This item did go -- did have a mail out 200 feet and 500

3473
03:12:30,209 --> 03:12:30,639
feet.

3474
03:12:30,639 --> 03:12:32,639
And there were three positive responses.

3475
03:12:32,639 --> 03:12:37,110
Do you need me to read the people who made those responses

3476
03:12:37,110 --> 03:12:38,639
into the record?

3477
03:12:38,639 --> 03:12:41,639
I don't think so if they're part of our record.

3478
03:12:41,639 --> 03:12:42,639
Okay.

3479
03:12:42,639 --> 03:12:43,639
Great.

3480
03:12:43,639 --> 03:12:44,639
Thanks.

3481
03:12:44,639 --> 03:12:45,639
Any questions?

3482
03:12:45,639 --> 03:12:49,639
Any questions for staff?

3483
03:12:49,639 --> 03:12:51,639
Thank you.

3484
03:12:51,639 --> 03:12:52,639
Again, this is a public hearing.

3485
03:12:52,639 --> 03:13:01,680
Anyone who would like to speak on this item, please come

3486
03:13:01,680 --> 03:13:05,639
forward at this time.

3487
03:13:05,639 --> 03:13:06,639
I'm Donna Morris.

3488
03:13:06,639 --> 03:13:10,639
My address is 918 West Oak.

3489
03:13:10,639 --> 03:13:13,569
And we bought this house and refurbished it and our

3490
03:13:13,569 --> 03:13:16,639
daughter and her family have moved in there.

3491
03:13:16,639 --> 03:13:21,290
And this was what is known in town as the Hal Jackson House

3492
03:13:21,290 --> 03:13:21,639
.

3493
03:13:21,639 --> 03:13:25,639
And I respectfully request your approval.

3494
03:13:25,639 --> 03:13:26,639
Great.

3495
03:13:26,639 --> 03:13:29,590
Were you pleased when you had time to fill out a card for

3496
03:13:29,590 --> 03:13:31,639
us before you leave this evening?

3497
03:13:31,639 --> 03:13:32,639
Thank you.

3498
03:13:32,639 --> 03:13:33,639
Again, this is a public hearing.

3499
03:13:33,639 --> 03:13:38,219
Anyone else who would like to speak on this item, please

3500
03:13:38,219 --> 03:13:40,639
come forward at this time.

3501
03:13:40,639 --> 03:13:46,649
Seeing none, I'll close the public hearing and open this

3502
03:13:46,649 --> 03:13:50,639
item up for discussion or a motion.

3503
03:13:50,639 --> 03:13:54,639
I'd like to make a motion to approve.

3504
03:13:54,639 --> 03:13:55,639
Commissioner Hatchbuth?

3505
03:13:55,639 --> 03:13:56,639
Second.

3506
03:13:56,639 --> 03:13:59,639
I have a first and a second for approval.

3507
03:13:59,639 --> 03:14:04,639
Any discussion?

3508
03:14:04,639 --> 03:14:15,639
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

3509
03:14:15,639 --> 03:14:17,639
Motion carries 6-0.

3510
03:14:17,639 --> 03:14:18,639
Congratulations.

3511
03:14:18,639 --> 03:14:21,639
Nice job on your home.

3512
03:14:21,639 --> 03:14:31,639
We'll move us to item F, which will be HL16-0007.

3513
03:14:31,639 --> 03:14:36,149
And I'm going to open the public hearing and call on Roman

3514
03:14:36,149 --> 03:14:38,639
McGowan for presentation.

3515
03:14:38,639 --> 03:14:39,639
Okay.

3516
03:14:39,639 --> 03:14:42,959
And this is the exact same type of designation, different

3517
03:14:42,959 --> 03:14:48,639
property in the same historic district, 619 Pearl Street.

3518
03:14:48,639 --> 03:14:51,639
And I'm going to open it up for you for the same reasons.

3519
03:14:51,639 --> 03:14:55,379
This property also had three responses back from the

3520
03:14:55,379 --> 03:14:58,639
neighborhood, and one of them was pretty significant.

3521
03:14:58,639 --> 03:15:00,639
And I just want to mention it.

3522
03:15:00,639 --> 03:15:05,639
It's from, it looks like a Lindy Dodd.

3523
03:15:05,639 --> 03:15:08,700
And they said, "We wholeheartedly support this historic

3524
03:15:08,700 --> 03:15:11,639
landmark designation for 619 Pearl Street.

3525
03:15:11,639 --> 03:15:14,639
And we support preservation of historical homes in Denton,

3526
03:15:14,639 --> 03:15:16,639
regardless of the location.

3527
03:15:16,639 --> 03:15:20,629
And we support planning and zoning and city-supported

3528
03:15:20,629 --> 03:15:25,639
designation and preservation of all resources in Denton."

3529
03:15:25,639 --> 03:15:27,639
So this is, again, that same sort of designation.

3530
03:15:27,639 --> 03:15:29,850
It's just a wonderful thing that the city does to protect

3531
03:15:29,850 --> 03:15:30,639
our resources.

3532
03:15:30,639 --> 03:15:32,639
And this is that property today.

3533
03:15:32,639 --> 03:15:36,639
Any questions?

3534
03:15:36,639 --> 03:15:37,639
Commissioner Tyler.

3535
03:15:37,639 --> 03:15:39,639
Thank you, Chair.

3536
03:15:39,639 --> 03:15:43,739
So I'm looking at the aerial, and it does not show a

3537
03:15:43,739 --> 03:15:46,639
detached garage or outbuilding.

3538
03:15:46,639 --> 03:15:48,639
Is there a detached garage on this?

3539
03:15:48,639 --> 03:15:50,639
I'm thinking of the right corner, I believe.

3540
03:15:50,639 --> 03:15:51,639
There is.

3541
03:15:51,639 --> 03:15:53,639
Is it here on the image on the right?

3542
03:15:53,639 --> 03:15:54,639
Okay, yeah.

3543
03:15:54,639 --> 03:15:55,639
And I was curious.

3544
03:15:55,639 --> 03:15:57,639
So that is a new structure.

3545
03:15:57,639 --> 03:15:59,639
That is a new structure.

3546
03:15:59,639 --> 03:16:03,350
And is the outbuilding required to meet all of the same

3547
03:16:03,350 --> 03:16:07,639
criteria as the main building, or is it just the house?

3548
03:16:07,639 --> 03:16:09,639
I'm trying to remember.

3549
03:16:09,639 --> 03:16:12,639
That's a good question.

3550
03:16:12,639 --> 03:16:16,649
I think when we list these as a landmark, that they would

3551
03:16:16,649 --> 03:16:18,639
apply to the whole site.

3552
03:16:18,639 --> 03:16:22,510
In this case, when you're making the consideration, you're

3553
03:16:22,510 --> 03:16:25,639
looking at the original structure on the site.

3554
03:16:25,639 --> 03:16:29,290
Obviously, the new structure, it doesn't have the same

3555
03:16:29,290 --> 03:16:33,639
historical value, but as long as it was built.

3556
03:16:33,639 --> 03:16:36,790
And in this case, it would meet the standard, the United

3557
03:16:36,790 --> 03:16:39,260
States Secretary of Interior's standards for historic

3558
03:16:39,260 --> 03:16:41,639
preservation or building in a historic district.

3559
03:16:41,639 --> 03:16:43,639
The HLC approved that structure.

3560
03:16:43,639 --> 03:16:48,760
It met all those guidelines, and it's a magician in the

3561
03:16:48,760 --> 03:16:49,639
site.

3562
03:16:49,639 --> 03:16:50,639
So it's just there.

3563
03:16:50,639 --> 03:16:52,639
So we actually just said right there.

3564
03:16:52,639 --> 03:16:57,479
So if this had been a historic landmark before the out

3565
03:16:57,479 --> 03:17:03,649
building was built, the outbuilding would have met all the

3566
03:17:03,649 --> 03:17:04,639
requirements.

3567
03:17:04,639 --> 03:17:06,649
Because I think it does meet the facade requirements and

3568
03:17:06,649 --> 03:17:07,639
all that stuff, right?

3569
03:17:07,639 --> 03:17:09,639
It goes to your question earlier, Andrew.

3570
03:17:09,639 --> 03:17:11,639
You could build a building like that.

3571
03:17:11,639 --> 03:17:12,639
You can build additions.

3572
03:17:12,639 --> 03:17:17,639
You can build other quarters, carports and things.

3573
03:17:17,639 --> 03:17:19,639
They just need to meet the standard.

3574
03:17:19,639 --> 03:17:22,729
You wouldn't, if that home was, say, for example, set

3575
03:17:22,729 --> 03:17:26,510
farther back, putting something in front of it, probably

3576
03:17:26,510 --> 03:17:28,639
not going to fly.

3577
03:17:28,639 --> 03:17:30,639
Thank you.

3578
03:17:30,639 --> 03:17:34,639
Any other questions for staff?

3579
03:17:34,639 --> 03:17:36,639
Thank you.

3580
03:17:36,639 --> 03:17:38,639
And this is a public hearing.

3581
03:17:38,639 --> 03:17:44,159
Anyone who would like to speak on this item, please come

3582
03:17:44,159 --> 03:17:46,639
forward at this time.

3583
03:17:46,639 --> 03:17:50,209
Singh and I will close the public hearing and open the

3584
03:17:50,209 --> 03:17:52,639
floor for discussion or motion.

3585
03:17:52,639 --> 03:17:54,639
Commissioner Rizzo.

3586
03:17:54,639 --> 03:17:57,270
I just wanted to say that I'm appreciative of the citizens

3587
03:17:57,270 --> 03:17:59,639
who didn't take care of this part of town for us.

3588
03:17:59,639 --> 03:18:02,829
So I commend the hard work and effort put forth to have

3589
03:18:02,829 --> 03:18:05,889
these buildings approved, and I'm glad they're being

3590
03:18:05,889 --> 03:18:06,639
protected.

3591
03:18:06,639 --> 03:18:08,639
I hope this is a catalyst for even more.

3592
03:18:08,639 --> 03:18:12,639
And so I happily move to approve this item.

3593
03:18:12,639 --> 03:18:14,639
Commissioner Ellis.

3594
03:18:14,639 --> 03:18:17,639
Thank you, Chair, and I will happily second that motion.

3595
03:18:17,639 --> 03:18:20,639
We have a first and a second for approval.

3596
03:18:20,639 --> 03:18:24,639
Any discussion?

3597
03:18:24,639 --> 03:18:34,639
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

3598
03:18:34,639 --> 03:18:36,639
Motion carries six to zero.

3599
03:18:36,639 --> 03:18:38,639
Another great job on preservation here in Denton.

3600
03:18:38,639 --> 03:18:40,639
Thank you.

3601
03:18:40,639 --> 03:18:46,610
We'll move us to item G, and I'm going to open the public

3602
03:18:46,610 --> 03:18:50,639
hearing for Z16-0021.

3603
03:18:50,639 --> 03:19:00,639
And we'll call on Haley Zagurski for presentation.

3604
03:19:00,639 --> 03:19:01,639
Good evening.

3605
03:19:01,639 --> 03:19:07,639
So this is case Z1621 for the North Elm Street Apartments.

3606
03:19:07,639 --> 03:19:10,239
I'll keep this brief and just do a summary of the case, but

3607
03:19:10,239 --> 03:19:12,450
if you would like me to go over anything that we discussed

3608
03:19:12,450 --> 03:19:14,639
in the work session, I'd be happy to do so.

3609
03:19:14,639 --> 03:19:18,219
So the request is to rezone approximately 12.97 acres from

3610
03:19:18,219 --> 03:19:20,950
Regional Center Commercial Downtown District to the

3611
03:19:20,950 --> 03:19:23,639
Neighborhood Residential Mixed Use District.

3612
03:19:23,639 --> 03:19:27,360
The property is located on the northwest side of the Rainey

3613
03:19:27,360 --> 03:19:29,639
Road-Elm Street intersection.

3614
03:19:29,639 --> 03:19:32,639
It's approximately 1,900 feet east of Bonneberry Street.

3615
03:19:32,639 --> 03:19:36,209
And staff found through our analysis that the proposed rez

3616
03:19:36,209 --> 03:19:39,540
oning to NRMU conforms with the future land use designation

3617
03:19:39,540 --> 03:19:42,639
for the property of neighborhood mixed use,

3618
03:19:42,639 --> 03:19:45,879
and is also compatible with surrounding zoning designations

3619
03:19:45,879 --> 03:19:47,639
and property uses in the area.

3620
03:19:47,639 --> 03:19:49,639
So we recommend approval of this case.

3621
03:19:49,639 --> 03:19:52,639
And I'll stand for any questions.

3622
03:19:52,639 --> 03:19:55,079
I'm going to ask a question on behalf of Commissioner

3623
03:19:55,079 --> 03:19:55,639
Taylor.

3624
03:19:55,639 --> 03:19:56,639
I think he brought up in work session.

3625
03:19:56,639 --> 03:19:58,639
Did we get an answer on the site plan?

3626
03:19:58,639 --> 03:20:01,639
It's the things that were shown on site plan, if there was

3627
03:20:01,639 --> 03:20:03,639
going to be a substitution or not.

3628
03:20:03,639 --> 03:20:05,639
There is no substitution.

3629
03:20:05,639 --> 03:20:08,510
I spoke with the applicant who is here, and they're

3630
03:20:08,510 --> 03:20:10,639
comfortable with it as presented.

3631
03:20:10,639 --> 03:20:12,639
As presented. Okay, great.

3632
03:20:12,639 --> 03:20:16,639
Any other questions for staff?

3633
03:20:16,639 --> 03:20:18,639
Thank you, Haley.

3634
03:20:18,639 --> 03:20:24,379
I have a card, but I guess I have a comment I'll read into

3635
03:20:24,379 --> 03:20:27,639
the record from Randall Smith.

3636
03:20:27,639 --> 03:20:31,639
5428 Lake Victoria Court in Flower Mound, Texas.

3637
03:20:31,639 --> 03:20:35,639
He is in favor of this request.

3638
03:20:35,639 --> 03:20:37,639
And this is a public hearing.

3639
03:20:37,639 --> 03:20:42,219
Anyone else who would like to speak on this item, please

3640
03:20:42,219 --> 03:20:44,639
come forward at this time.

3641
03:20:44,639 --> 03:20:48,479
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing and chair will

3642
03:20:48,479 --> 03:20:56,639
entertain a motion or would there be further discussion?

3643
03:20:56,639 --> 03:20:58,639
Commissioner Hussbett.

3644
03:20:58,639 --> 03:21:02,639
Move approval of Z16-0021.

3645
03:21:02,639 --> 03:21:05,639
Okay.

3646
03:21:05,639 --> 03:21:06,639
Commissioner Ellis.

3647
03:21:06,639 --> 03:21:08,639
Thank you, Chair. I will second that.

3648
03:21:08,639 --> 03:21:09,639
Okay.

3649
03:21:09,639 --> 03:21:11,639
I have a first and a second for approval.

3650
03:21:11,639 --> 03:21:17,639
Any further discussion?

3651
03:21:17,639 --> 03:21:27,639
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

3652
03:21:27,639 --> 03:21:34,639
Motion carries 6-0.

3653
03:21:34,639 --> 03:21:37,639
That will move us to item H.

3654
03:21:37,639 --> 03:21:44,639
I'm going to open the public hearing for S16-0005.

3655
03:21:44,639 --> 03:21:47,639
We'll call on Haley for presentation.

3656
03:21:47,639 --> 03:22:02,639
Thank you.

3657
03:22:02,639 --> 03:22:03,639
Okay.

3658
03:22:03,639 --> 03:22:07,940
So this is request S16-05, and this is for a specific use

3659
03:22:07,940 --> 03:22:12,639
permit that follows the zoning case that we just heard.

3660
03:22:12,639 --> 03:22:16,739
So the request is for an SUP to allow for multifamily

3661
03:22:16,739 --> 03:22:21,049
development on the same 12.97 acres of land at Raine and

3662
03:22:21,049 --> 03:22:22,639
North Elm.

3663
03:22:22,639 --> 03:22:25,030
The applicant has proposed a multifamily development that

3664
03:22:25,030 --> 03:22:27,370
would have a total of five buildings, a mixture of four-

3665
03:22:27,370 --> 03:22:30,719
story and three-story buildings with a total of

3666
03:22:30,719 --> 03:22:32,639
approximately 289 units.

3667
03:22:32,639 --> 03:22:35,530
And after analysis, staff found that the development is

3668
03:22:35,530 --> 03:22:38,309
compatible with surrounding property uses and is also

3669
03:22:38,309 --> 03:22:41,030
consistent with the objectives of the future land use

3670
03:22:41,030 --> 03:22:43,639
designation in the Denton Plan 2030.

3671
03:22:43,639 --> 03:22:47,319
So staff recommends approval of S16-05 with the condition

3672
03:22:47,319 --> 03:22:50,569
that the proposed development substantially complies with

3673
03:22:50,569 --> 03:22:53,790
the site plan, landscape plan, and elevations that were

3674
03:22:53,790 --> 03:22:54,639
provided.

3675
03:22:54,639 --> 03:22:56,639
Got some questions for you.

3676
03:22:56,639 --> 03:22:57,639
Yes, sir.

3677
03:22:57,639 --> 03:22:58,639
Commissioner Taylor.

3678
03:22:58,639 --> 03:23:00,639
Thank you, Chair.

3679
03:23:00,639 --> 03:23:05,639
Has the site plan hasn't gone through DRC yet, or has it?

3680
03:23:05,639 --> 03:23:08,780
The site plan was reviewed as part of the SUP, but it will

3681
03:23:08,780 --> 03:23:11,770
go through the final site plan process following the

3682
03:23:11,770 --> 03:23:13,639
planning of the property.

3683
03:23:13,639 --> 03:23:14,639
Okay.

3684
03:23:14,639 --> 03:23:20,850
I'm just noticing I believe the trash and recycling enclos

3685
03:23:20,850 --> 03:23:25,639
ures might not meet the criteria manuals.

3686
03:23:25,639 --> 03:23:28,989
So it just seems like they're not -- well, that one looks

3687
03:23:28,989 --> 03:23:32,639
big enough, but this other one doesn't look big enough.

3688
03:23:32,639 --> 03:23:35,510
So, of course, I guess in that case, this is where

3689
03:23:35,510 --> 03:23:37,639
substantially complies comes in.

3690
03:23:37,639 --> 03:23:41,309
So obviously I want -- the site generally looks good, but I

3691
03:23:41,309 --> 03:23:44,709
would want to make sure that it meets all of our criteria

3692
03:23:44,709 --> 03:23:45,639
manuals.

3693
03:23:45,639 --> 03:23:46,639
Yes, sir.

3694
03:23:46,639 --> 03:23:48,639
And it will be reviewed in more detail with the site plan.

3695
03:23:48,639 --> 03:23:49,639
Okay.

3696
03:23:49,639 --> 03:23:51,639
Thank you.

3697
03:23:51,639 --> 03:23:53,639
Commissioner Rossell.

3698
03:23:53,639 --> 03:23:54,639
Thank you, Chair.

3699
03:23:54,639 --> 03:23:58,430
You mentioned in the work session this lower corner, that

3700
03:23:58,430 --> 03:24:01,729
would come back to us for another site plan, is that

3701
03:24:01,729 --> 03:24:02,639
correct?

3702
03:24:02,639 --> 03:24:05,840
If they're to build on that or if it meets zoning, they can

3703
03:24:05,840 --> 03:24:08,639
just build by right, I guess, for the MIMU?

3704
03:24:08,639 --> 03:24:09,639
For the third lot?

3705
03:24:09,639 --> 03:24:10,639
Yes.

3706
03:24:10,639 --> 03:24:13,639
Yes, so that is not part of the multifamily request.

3707
03:24:13,639 --> 03:24:16,510
I believe there is other development intended for that site

3708
03:24:16,510 --> 03:24:16,639
.

3709
03:24:16,639 --> 03:24:20,000
But it could go -- once it's platted, it could go straight

3710
03:24:20,000 --> 03:24:23,239
to the site plan process, but you will see the property

3711
03:24:23,239 --> 03:24:24,639
again at platting.

3712
03:24:24,639 --> 03:24:25,639
Okay.

3713
03:24:25,639 --> 03:24:27,639
Thanks.

3714
03:24:27,639 --> 03:24:32,639
Any other questions for staff?

3715
03:24:32,639 --> 03:24:35,639
Thank you, Hayley.

3716
03:24:35,639 --> 03:24:39,629
I have -- it's not a card, but I have a comment in favor

3717
03:24:39,629 --> 03:24:45,180
request, Randall Smith, 5428 Lake Victoria Court, Flower M

3718
03:24:45,180 --> 03:24:46,639
ound, Texas.

3719
03:24:46,639 --> 03:24:48,639
Again, he's in favor.

3720
03:24:48,639 --> 03:24:50,639
This is a public hearing.

3721
03:24:50,639 --> 03:24:54,819
Anyone else who would like to come forward and speak on

3722
03:24:54,819 --> 03:24:58,639
this item at this time, please come forward.

3723
03:24:58,639 --> 03:25:02,319
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing and open the

3724
03:25:02,319 --> 03:25:04,639
floor for discussion or motion.

3725
03:25:04,639 --> 03:25:07,639
Mr. Chair?

3726
03:25:07,639 --> 03:25:08,639
Yes.

3727
03:25:08,639 --> 03:25:09,639
I have a question.

3728
03:25:09,639 --> 03:25:13,540
I was looking at the staff's recommendation, and I've

3729
03:25:13,540 --> 03:25:17,799
noticed that they've changed somewhat, especially with

3730
03:25:17,799 --> 03:25:24,639
these types of projects that are on a road classification

3731
03:25:24,639 --> 03:25:25,639
377.

3732
03:25:25,639 --> 03:25:30,110
Usually they're dependent on TextDOT improving the curb cut

3733
03:25:30,110 --> 03:25:31,639
at that location.

3734
03:25:31,639 --> 03:25:35,639
I see that they have a proposed curb cut.

3735
03:25:35,639 --> 03:25:37,639
Sometimes they can't get that from TextDOT.

3736
03:25:37,639 --> 03:25:38,639
Sometimes they can't.

3737
03:25:38,639 --> 03:25:40,959
I was trying to find whether something like that is

3738
03:25:40,959 --> 03:25:43,639
included as part of the recommendation or requirement.

3739
03:25:43,639 --> 03:25:47,600
We don't know that, but typically we covered that by

3740
03:25:47,600 --> 03:25:53,079
including a provision that they comply with all other city

3741
03:25:53,079 --> 03:25:57,100
ordinances and state and federal laws that may be

3742
03:25:57,100 --> 03:26:00,639
applicable to cover those kinds of situations as well.

3743
03:26:00,639 --> 03:26:05,260
Because right now as it stands, it wouldn't cover a

3744
03:26:05,260 --> 03:26:10,440
situation like that unless they already have the curb cut

3745
03:26:10,440 --> 03:26:15,370
and I didn't find approval from TextDOT and I didn't see

3746
03:26:15,370 --> 03:26:17,639
that in the backup.

3747
03:26:17,639 --> 03:26:22,159
We have preliminarily met with TextDOT about this curb cut

3748
03:26:22,159 --> 03:26:23,639
onto US 77.

3749
03:26:23,639 --> 03:26:25,639
They had no issues with it.

3750
03:26:25,639 --> 03:26:28,280
They had no issues with the proposed left turn lane onto

3751
03:26:28,280 --> 03:26:31,190
the site, but it hasn't been formally approved because they

3752
03:26:31,190 --> 03:26:33,639
haven't applied for a formal TextDOT permit.

3753
03:26:33,639 --> 03:26:35,639
It's something that would be dependent otherwise.

3754
03:26:35,639 --> 03:26:40,629
We don't have it in our -- I don't want to put the building

3755
03:26:40,629 --> 03:26:44,280
department in a position where they have to issue a permit

3756
03:26:44,280 --> 03:26:48,010
when they haven't gotten necessary approvals from a state

3757
03:26:48,010 --> 03:26:51,639
agency because it's kind of an awkward position.

3758
03:26:51,639 --> 03:26:54,899
I would recommend that some type of additional condition be

3759
03:26:54,899 --> 03:26:58,129
put in that they comply with all other local ordinances and

3760
03:26:58,129 --> 03:27:00,639
state and applicable state laws as well.

3761
03:27:00,639 --> 03:27:03,639
That would cover the TextDOT issue.

3762
03:27:03,639 --> 03:27:06,790
Do you have some specific language or is that it that you'd

3763
03:27:06,790 --> 03:27:07,639
like to add?

3764
03:27:07,639 --> 03:27:09,639
We could do a friendly amendment.

3765
03:27:09,639 --> 03:27:13,100
Something that can be done by a friendly amendment, but it

3766
03:27:13,100 --> 03:27:16,540
's something just to cover everything and make sure that we

3767
03:27:16,540 --> 03:27:18,639
're not deficient in any areas.

3768
03:27:18,639 --> 03:27:22,290
I don't remember who the original motioner or seconder was

3769
03:27:22,290 --> 03:27:24,639
for a friendly amendment to that.

3770
03:27:24,639 --> 03:27:26,639
We haven't even done it.

3771
03:27:26,639 --> 03:27:28,639
I can't make the amendments.

3772
03:27:28,639 --> 03:27:29,639
We've had a few items and it's a long night.

3773
03:27:29,639 --> 03:27:32,639
I apologize.

3774
03:27:32,639 --> 03:27:40,219
So any further discussion or motion with a friendly

3775
03:27:40,219 --> 03:27:41,639
amendment?

3776
03:27:41,639 --> 03:27:43,639
Commissioner Hussbeth.

3777
03:27:43,639 --> 03:27:51,200
I move that we approve S16-0005 with the requirement that

3778
03:27:51,200 --> 03:27:58,909
they meet all state and city requirements pertaining to the

3779
03:27:58,909 --> 03:28:03,639
right of ways, curbs, streets, access, et cetera.

3780
03:28:03,639 --> 03:28:04,639
Okay.

3781
03:28:04,639 --> 03:28:07,250
Legal, does that suffice on the condition you are looking

3782
03:28:07,250 --> 03:28:07,639
for?

3783
03:28:07,639 --> 03:28:09,639
No, that would be sufficient.

3784
03:28:09,639 --> 03:28:10,639
Great.

3785
03:28:10,639 --> 03:28:13,639
Thank you, Commissioner Hussbeth.

3786
03:28:13,639 --> 03:28:16,639
Commissioner Ellis.

3787
03:28:16,639 --> 03:28:19,510
I will second that as long as we're including staff

3788
03:28:19,510 --> 03:28:21,639
recommendations on that as well.

3789
03:28:21,639 --> 03:28:22,639
Okay.

3790
03:28:22,639 --> 03:28:23,639
Correct.

3791
03:28:23,639 --> 03:28:24,639
Great.

3792
03:28:24,639 --> 03:28:30,219
We have a motion, first and a second, to approve with the

3793
03:28:30,219 --> 03:28:36,639
condition as drafted by Commissioner Hussbeth and

3794
03:28:36,639 --> 03:28:39,639
recommended also by legal.

3795
03:28:39,639 --> 03:28:45,639
We'll call for further discussion on this item.

3796
03:28:45,639 --> 03:28:47,639
Seeing none, Commissioner Taylor.

3797
03:28:47,639 --> 03:28:50,639
So clarifying and the staff recommendation too?

3798
03:28:50,639 --> 03:28:52,639
I didn't, sorry, I just wanted to make sure.

3799
03:28:52,639 --> 03:28:53,639
Yes.

3800
03:28:53,639 --> 03:28:56,639
Okay.

3801
03:28:56,639 --> 03:29:00,639
Someone help me if I've gotten something messed up.

3802
03:29:00,639 --> 03:29:01,889
I just didn't like, in the original motion was with the

3803
03:29:01,889 --> 03:29:03,219
condition of legal, I just wanted to make sure, and also

3804
03:29:03,219 --> 03:29:10,639
the site landscape plan and so forth will be by the law.

3805
03:29:10,639 --> 03:29:11,639
Okay.

3806
03:29:11,639 --> 03:29:12,639
All of the conditions that are mentioned.

3807
03:29:12,639 --> 03:29:13,639
Okay.

3808
03:29:13,639 --> 03:29:14,639
Thank you for the clarification.

3809
03:29:14,639 --> 03:29:19,290
Do we need any clarification on that with a seconder or not

3810
03:29:19,290 --> 03:29:19,639
?

3811
03:29:19,639 --> 03:29:24,110
No, I thought the seconder actually reiterated that staff

3812
03:29:24,110 --> 03:29:25,639
recommendation.

3813
03:29:25,639 --> 03:29:26,639
Great.

3814
03:29:26,639 --> 03:29:35,879
Okay, so with a seconder and a first and a second, I'll

3815
03:29:35,879 --> 03:29:45,639
call for a vote on the board to approve with conditions.

3816
03:29:45,639 --> 03:29:48,639
Motion carries six to zero.

3817
03:29:48,639 --> 03:29:57,409
That concludes our public hearing section and we'll move us

3818
03:29:57,409 --> 03:30:00,639
to our project matrix.

3819
03:30:00,639 --> 03:30:05,399
Yes, you should open your packet, the latest list of

3820
03:30:05,399 --> 03:30:08,639
requests for information.

3821
03:30:08,639 --> 03:30:11,639
Are there any additions at this time?

3822
03:30:11,639 --> 03:30:15,639
I have a couple questions.

3823
03:30:15,639 --> 03:30:16,639
Commissioner Zell.

3824
03:30:16,639 --> 03:30:20,209
I was in the matrix and it looks like Commissioner Briegel

3825
03:30:20,209 --> 03:30:23,510
and Dudowitz a while ago, where one of the items is future

3826
03:30:23,510 --> 03:30:26,639
plans for additional parking to the downtown area.

3827
03:30:26,639 --> 03:30:29,510
In light of the television ads that are being run for Waus

3828
03:30:29,510 --> 03:30:33,479
el Fest this Friday, I know, just present in my mind, the

3829
03:30:33,479 --> 03:30:37,649
massive parking disarray we're about to experience downtown

3830
03:30:37,649 --> 03:30:38,639
this weekend.

3831
03:30:38,639 --> 03:30:41,290
Is there any update on when we'll know about that specific

3832
03:30:41,290 --> 03:30:43,989
item, about the parking downtown, or are we going to get a

3833
03:30:43,989 --> 03:30:44,639
report?

3834
03:30:44,639 --> 03:30:47,920
It says upcoming work session. Do we have a timeframe on

3835
03:30:47,920 --> 03:30:48,639
that one?

3836
03:30:48,639 --> 03:30:52,780
I do not at this time, but staff is, we're coordinating,

3837
03:30:52,780 --> 03:30:56,530
core work, I'm sleepy, coordinated internally and there's a

3838
03:30:56,530 --> 03:30:57,639
meeting next week.

3839
03:30:57,639 --> 03:31:01,739
So we'll bring forward the schedule after we get it

3840
03:31:01,739 --> 03:31:03,639
together on our ends.

3841
03:31:03,639 --> 03:31:06,750
Perfect. And the other thing, I don't know if this is to

3842
03:31:06,750 --> 03:31:09,639
add to the matrix or rather maybe offline clarification,

3843
03:31:09,639 --> 03:31:13,639
but I would love to know the city thresholds.

3844
03:31:13,639 --> 03:31:17,879
City thresholds for installing sidewalks to pre-existing

3845
03:31:17,879 --> 03:31:18,639
roads.

3846
03:31:18,639 --> 03:31:24,959
I don't know what has to happen to necessitate a sidewalk

3847
03:31:24,959 --> 03:31:29,659
being built, but there are some streets that just seem like

3848
03:31:29,659 --> 03:31:31,639
they're crying for a sidewalk.

3849
03:31:31,639 --> 03:31:35,750
And I don't know the process of getting a sidewalk added or

3850
03:31:35,750 --> 03:31:39,639
if there's general conditions that have to be met.

3851
03:31:39,639 --> 03:31:43,639
I'd welcome some more information about sidewalks in town.

3852
03:31:43,639 --> 03:31:46,639
Okay.

3853
03:31:46,639 --> 03:31:47,639
Sure.

3854
03:31:47,639 --> 03:31:50,510
I know I haven't been on here for a while, but I noticed

3855
03:31:50,510 --> 03:31:53,489
that there are several new members that have come up within

3856
03:31:53,489 --> 03:31:56,639
or come on this commission in the last year, two years.

3857
03:31:56,639 --> 03:32:00,780
I recommend that maybe it is time for a discussion or

3858
03:32:00,780 --> 03:32:04,639
actually a legal presentation on gas wells.

3859
03:32:04,639 --> 03:32:09,639
We do have a new gas well ordinance that was adopted. I

3860
03:32:09,639 --> 03:32:09,639
think some of you weren't on the commission yet.

3861
03:32:09,639 --> 03:32:15,889
The gas well issues are a big issue in this town and they

3862
03:32:15,889 --> 03:32:18,879
were in part of the Robeson Ranch and that's something that

3863
03:32:18,879 --> 03:32:20,940
needs some further discussion internally about that

3864
03:32:20,940 --> 03:32:21,639
particular project.

3865
03:32:21,639 --> 03:32:25,219
But it's something for you all to know and be able to

3866
03:32:25,219 --> 03:32:29,200
identify what those requirements are when you see these

3867
03:32:29,200 --> 03:32:32,639
plots come before you that have gas wells in them.

3868
03:32:32,639 --> 03:32:42,639
Okay.

3869
03:32:42,639 --> 03:32:48,639
I've got one to add. I know I had asked for an update on

3870
03:32:48,639 --> 03:32:52,639
the tech stock plans for May Hill in 35.

3871
03:32:52,639 --> 03:32:56,569
I don't know when those are planning to come to us, but I

3872
03:32:56,569 --> 03:33:00,680
have another request that can probably go under that same

3873
03:33:00,680 --> 03:33:02,639
category of Ryan Road.

3874
03:33:02,639 --> 03:33:08,110
We have a number of subdivisions that are going in on Ryan

3875
03:33:08,110 --> 03:33:13,290
Road and I believe the new procedure we have is the impact

3876
03:33:13,290 --> 03:33:17,719
fees rather than perimeter street paving and all the road

3877
03:33:17,719 --> 03:33:18,639
improvements.

3878
03:33:18,639 --> 03:33:23,110
And I think there was a condition put on that roadway

3879
03:33:23,110 --> 03:33:28,360
impact that once the road got to a certain level that would

3880
03:33:28,360 --> 03:33:31,639
trigger the city to come in and improve that road.

3881
03:33:31,639 --> 03:33:37,250
And I'd be curious to know what Ryan Road's current rating

3882
03:33:37,250 --> 03:33:43,760
is currently or proposed after however many 500, 600 or

3883
03:33:43,760 --> 03:33:46,750
however many lots that are currently under development

3884
03:33:46,750 --> 03:33:47,639
right there.

3885
03:33:47,639 --> 03:33:52,200
Where that stands and possibly a light at the end of Ryan

3886
03:33:52,200 --> 03:33:58,290
at 1830 because that's the only way for those people to get

3887
03:33:58,290 --> 03:33:58,639
out.

3888
03:33:58,639 --> 03:34:01,639
I think.

3889
03:34:01,639 --> 03:34:03,639
What's wrong.

3890
03:34:03,639 --> 03:34:06,739
That's okay. And I do have that information on May Hill. I

3891
03:34:06,739 --> 03:34:09,639
'm just I want to put it in a memo.

3892
03:34:09,639 --> 03:34:15,110
If it's better to handle as a memo and nobody else cares

3893
03:34:15,110 --> 03:34:18,639
about fine you can send it to me but I'll take it.

3894
03:34:18,639 --> 03:34:21,649
So that's fine. A memo on that and a memo on Ryan rather

3895
03:34:21,649 --> 03:34:24,719
than taking up work session time unless staff feels like

3896
03:34:24,719 --> 03:34:27,639
that's the most appropriate way to deal with it.

3897
03:34:27,639 --> 03:34:32,639
So anybody else?

3898
03:34:32,639 --> 03:34:35,639
Good meeting. Long meeting tonight.

3899
03:34:35,639 --> 03:34:39,209
At 9 o'clock I'm going to close our PNC meeting for this

3900
03:34:39,209 --> 03:34:42,510
evening and thank you everybody for a very good discussion

3901
03:34:42,510 --> 03:34:44,639
on some tough issues tonight.

3902
03:34:44,639 --> 03:34:45,639
Thank you.