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This meeting has been duly posted and we have a quorum

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present. This is going to be our meeting for September the

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28th and I'm going to call our meeting to order at 5 o'

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clock.

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Our first order of business today is going to be to receive

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clarification of agenda items and before I recognize Menal

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to bring that forth, I understand we have a new associate

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planner with us today.

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Ms. Abbe-Riaz, welcome and thank you for your service and

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helping us this afternoon and in the future. Glad that you

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're here to join us.

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And with that, I will turn it over to Menal for

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clarification of our agenda items.

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Thank you, Chairperson Strange. We are going to start with

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a preliminary plaque for North Lake Shopping Center and

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Mike Bell is here to present that.

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Okay, thank you.

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All right, this is a preliminary plaque for five non-

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residential lots at the northeast corner of Bonnie Bray and

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Highway 380.

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The big anchor lot here and several kind of pad sites

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around the outside.

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It does meet all our requirements for utilities and

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infrastructure. So we are recommending approval and there

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will be a final plaque coming shortly.

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Anybody else? I have a question on this plaque.

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I noticed on the finished floor elevations on the, I guess

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the site that would be to the far northwest looks like it's

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682 and the lower finished floor elevation is 671.

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So it's about a 10 feet of difference in the height of

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those.

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It looks like there's a lot of common ingress, egress. Just

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curious how that will all tie together.

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Somebody a lot smarter than me may already have all that

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figured out, but it's a lot of grade change in two pad

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sites.

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I would look at the grading and drainage plans for part of

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the backup for the plant, but I will ask Roleskobar if he's

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got any more information on that.

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Those minimum finished floor elevations are just based on

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the FEMA floodplain elevation at those locations, but the

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terrain doesn't necessarily reflect the same amount of drop

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between those two elevations as well.

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It's pretty, I think it's a pretty flat area.

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So the, I guess the elevation at 671 I believe is not going

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to actually be, the actual building will not be at that

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elevation.

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It will be a lot higher because of the terrain being a lot

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higher at that point.

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Okay. Well, don't have the topo, just have the finished

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floor and it's a lot of difference.

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So thanks for the clarification.

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I don't know if this affects us too much, but that dam for

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the Northlake Park is just about on this property line as

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well.

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So maybe a bit of a slope from that dam.

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Okay.

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Thank you.

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Thank you, Mike.

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Next item is an ADP and Julie Wyatt is going to present

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this for us. It's ADP 160013.

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Good evening. I'm Julie Wyatt.

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I'm presenting ADP 1613 for Aldi.

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I did put two letters on your desk regarding this.

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This isn't a public hearing item.

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There's no notification.

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This is an individual consideration item.

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But the neighborhood did send me letters, so we wanted to

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provide those to you today.

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So the request before you is to consider an alternative

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development plan for the construction of an approximately

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19,000 square foot grocery store.

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The subject property is located on the corner of University

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and Ector right here in yellow.

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The current zoning is NRMU.

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It's important to note that the use is permitted.

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However, there are design considerations that the applicant

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would like for you to consider tonight.

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And the request includes several deviations from subchapter

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13.

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NRMU is considered a pedestrian oriented district within

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the city of Denton.

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As such, there are additional site design considerations

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within that.

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One being at least 60% of the street frontage shall have a

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building within 10 feet of the front property line.

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There's a minimum floor to area ratio of 0.4 and they're

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proposing a 0.238.

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The parking area should be located behind the buildings or

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one or both sides.

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And then the building setback can't be more than 15 feet

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from the right of way unless there's a plaza area.

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The applicant would like to vary from these site design

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considerations and we're going to go over the site plan.

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First of all, they're proposing a sign on University.

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The code requires that they could have or permits that they

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could have a sign on both Ector and University.

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They're only proposing a sign on University.

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They do propose 72 parking spaces, which actually exceeds

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the 64 required by the code.

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But because they're exceeding those spaces, they are

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proposing to construct those with pervious surface.

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That actually meets the Denton development code

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requirements and is not a part of this request.

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But it was originally something that they thought they were

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going to do, so I wanted to bring that forward to you.

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So the excess parking isn't a part of this request today.

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It's just really that building orientation and where the

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parking area is.

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They are also proposing to the loading dock area, there's a

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wall that screens that.

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It's also proposed to go below grade to screen that and

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mute that for the neighborhood.

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There are some pedestrian connections.

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There's one pedestrian connection here from this sidewalk

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on Ector.

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There's also another pedestrian connection from this

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handicap parking spot to the building front.

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Yes, sir.

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Commissioner Beck.

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Thank you, Chair.

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How are those designed?

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Is it just marked?

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It's really just going to be paint on the...

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Okay.

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Yes, sir.

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Okay, thanks.

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What they're proposing is paint on the concrete.

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They are also proposing cart storage behind masonry walls,

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3 1/2 foot masonry walls, to screen that cart storage and

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just make it look really nice.

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They're also...

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They have proposed a landscape plan.

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They are proposing a 15-foot buffer on the south property

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line.

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This 15-foot buffer is only required in this portion next

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to this single-family home.

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However, they're proposing to extend that even against this

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adjacent NRMU zoning designation.

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They are also proposing to increase the vegetation within

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that landscape buffer to 10 large evergreen trees, 21 small

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trees, and then 80 shrubs.

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They're proposing an additional square footage of landscape

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areas, as well as tree canopy.

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They're also proposing planting islands and end caps within

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the parking area that exceeds what code requires.

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Now, the code does require these end caps and planting

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areas, but they only require one tree per planting area.

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So by adding the shrub, the low-water shrubs, it's

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enhancing it because the development code doesn't require

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any plantings other than grass and then trees.

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So any... those shrubs within that parking area is

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additional.

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They're also proposing some foundation plantings in front

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of the building along University, and then an enhanced

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parking lot screening area here on Ector.

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Parking lot screening at the right-of-way, if it's not in

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front of a building, requires one tree every 40 linear feet

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.

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They're proposing additional shrubbery in order to screen

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the parking lot or the car headlights and just visually

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improve that parking area.

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Here are the elevations they're proposing.

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I put some arrows just to make it a little shorthand for

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you.

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This elevation is proposed to be the Ector Street location,

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and you can see that is the dock area.

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This elevation here, I did not put an arrow because it's

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this one right here, and the arrows were getting a little

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confusing.

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So this is actually in this area.

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This is the University side of the building, and then this

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is the southern or the rear elevation to the south.

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So this would be next to that 15-foot landscape buffer.

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It's important to note the Denton Development Code doesn't

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have a minimum masonry requirement for commercial buildings

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,

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and they are proposing a masonry building.

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So that exceeds what the code requires.

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Oh, yes, sir?

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>> Question?

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>> Is the front screening for the shopping carts identified

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in that university elevation?

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You said there's a three-and-a-half masonry screening?

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>> Yes, it's a little difficult to see because it's flat,

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but it is for the University side.

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It's near these bollards right here, and then you can kind

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of see it on the Ector side, and then the flip side, you

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can see the University one here.

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>> So the masonry matches that bottom portion of the mason

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ry?

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>> Yes, sir.

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>> Thank you.

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>> Sure.

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>> Commissioner Tyler.

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>> Thank you, Chair.

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Going back to the landscaping along Ector.

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>> Sure.

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>> Is there existing overhead utilities, utility line

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running along Ector?

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>> There aren't any existing overhead utilities.

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We do have the plat, and I don't have it with me.

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I wish I had brought it, but there aren't any utilities

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here.

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There are utilities along University, which that's why we

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've got such a large area here.

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But these should be, and DME and engineering have looked at

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this, and they've said it's okay.

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So these trees will be okay in this area.

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>> Okay, I just want to make sure, because I'm fairly

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certain there is a power line that runs along the west side

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of Ector.

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So I don't know if it ends before this block, or if it's

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just out in the right of way and doesn't affect the

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landscape.

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>> I believe there's one pole that is at the corner of Em

217
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ory and Ector when you look at the aerial.

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You can see those, and there are some overhead lines.

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I don't know what they're for though.

220
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I don't know if they're power or, you do see them?

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Do they extend all the way up?

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Yes, they do.

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So we need to ascertain what those are.

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>> Okay.

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>> Regarding, and we can get that information to you.

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>> Sure.

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>> And if for some reason it couldn't develop the way it's

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proposed here, it would have to come back to you.

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So we have requested that the site plan and landscape plan

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be attached to the ADP.

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So we looked at the criteria for approval for ADPs, and

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that's in sub-chapter 13 of the Denton Development Code.

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First, that it preserves existing neighborhoods.

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Staff analyzed what they proposed and believes that this

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enhanced buffer on the south side of the property increases

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the compatibility between the proposed development and the

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neighborhood to the south.

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Assures a quality development that fits in with the

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character of Denton.

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You know, this is, and we were talking before, this is kind

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of a unique property in that it's on University, which is

242
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really an auto-oriented street.

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And so, but it is close to a neighborhood, so it kind of

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splits these worlds.

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And so we do feel that this proposal does fit within the

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00:12:32,309 --> 00:12:36,399
commercial character of the University, but that the

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additional landscaping serves to soften this proposal and

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allows it to be more compatible with that neighborhood area

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.

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00:12:45,500 --> 00:12:48,720
The criteria also states that we need to focus development

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on activity sitters to curb strip development and urban

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sprawl.

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So this is within the infill boundary and it's within

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existing road networks.

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It's not creating additional roads.

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The proposed location is near a residential and commercial

257
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area anyway.

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Ensure that the infrastructure is capable of accommodating

259
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the development.

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This was vetted during the plat approval.

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There was a re-plat that was administratively approved in

262
00:13:17,799 --> 00:13:18,500
August.

263
00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:21,600
And then ensure the developer's alternative proposal

264
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,500
results in an overall high quality development.

265
00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:27,940
And staff believes that this enhanced landscaping does

266
00:13:27,940 --> 00:13:31,539
define the right of way and creates the visual interest for

267
00:13:31,539 --> 00:13:32,500
pedestrians.

268
00:13:32,500 --> 00:13:36,690
And you know, what these requirements are for, the building

269
00:13:36,690 --> 00:13:40,090
orientation, the floor to area ratio, the location of the

270
00:13:40,090 --> 00:13:40,500
parking.

271
00:13:40,500 --> 00:13:45,090
It's really to minimize the visual impacts of parking areas

272
00:13:45,090 --> 00:13:48,500
for someone walking by for pedestrians.

273
00:13:48,500 --> 00:13:52,500
So additionally, we want to define the street wall.

274
00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:55,500
We want to define that street area.

275
00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:59,820
And with the additional plantings, staff believes that this

276
00:13:59,820 --> 00:14:01,500
proposal does achieve that.

277
00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:05,710
That it does activate the pedestrian area and it does

278
00:14:05,710 --> 00:14:07,500
define the street.

279
00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:10,679
So based upon those recommendations or criteria for

280
00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,500
approval, staff does recommend approval.

281
00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:18,129
But with some conditions, one that the proposed development

282
00:14:18,129 --> 00:14:21,500
must substantially conform to the site plan, landscape and

283
00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:22,500
elevations,

284
00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:27,009
including those marked pedestrian areas within the parking

285
00:14:27,009 --> 00:14:31,269
lot, the enhanced type C buffer, the additional landscape

286
00:14:31,269 --> 00:14:35,500
area, as well as the additional tree canopy.

287
00:14:35,500 --> 00:14:39,070
The parking lot planting islands with that enhanced landsca

288
00:14:39,070 --> 00:14:42,220
ping, enhanced parking lot screening, Ector with the

289
00:14:42,220 --> 00:14:46,159
additional shrubbery, no ground signs to be permitted on E

290
00:14:46,159 --> 00:14:46,500
ctor.

291
00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:49,500
And then only ground signs would be on University.

292
00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:54,330
The screen cart storage and then the loading area must be

293
00:14:54,330 --> 00:14:58,610
at the rear, you know, below grade with that eight foot

294
00:14:58,610 --> 00:15:03,500
screening wall to mute those visual impacts of that.

295
00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:05,899
So if you have any other questions, I'll stand for the

296
00:15:05,899 --> 00:15:06,500
question.

297
00:15:06,500 --> 00:15:08,500
Commissioner Beck. Thank you, Chair.

298
00:15:08,500 --> 00:15:12,500
What are the dimensions of that sign on the front there?

299
00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:15,600
The sign for on University that they're going to be

300
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:16,500
installed.

301
00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:18,500
Is that low to the ground?

302
00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:20,750
It would have to meet any of the sign requirements on

303
00:15:20,750 --> 00:15:21,500
University.

304
00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:24,500
So it would have to meet the height requirements.

305
00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:26,500
Let me see if I can. I can't see that.

306
00:15:26,500 --> 00:15:28,500
Don't mean to put you on the spot. No, no.

307
00:15:28,500 --> 00:15:32,500
It's a good question.

308
00:15:32,500 --> 00:15:36,049
You know, we haven't we don't have any sign elevations for

309
00:15:36,049 --> 00:15:36,500
it.

310
00:15:36,500 --> 00:15:37,500
The applicant will be here tonight.

311
00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:41,500
So you could certainly ask them about it.

312
00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:42,500
Thank you.

313
00:15:42,500 --> 00:15:44,500
And I just, I guess, like to make one comment.

314
00:15:44,500 --> 00:15:49,799
I think the applicant has done a good job to minimize the

315
00:15:49,799 --> 00:15:54,500
effect of putting those parking places out front.

316
00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:58,519
We seem to have gone through several requests here where we

317
00:15:58,519 --> 00:16:02,700
've acquiesced to, you know, leaving the parking places in

318
00:16:02,700 --> 00:16:03,500
front.

319
00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:06,200
But this this this particular project has done a good job

320
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,500
of trying to minimize that with the buffer.

321
00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:13,509
But I just just wanted to raise that concern because I hope

322
00:16:13,509 --> 00:16:16,500
we don't get in the groove here.

323
00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:18,500
Commissioner Sullivan.

324
00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:23,000
Just my own edification, it appears that they're being

325
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,610
asked to get a variance for the 10 foot setback for the

326
00:16:27,610 --> 00:16:28,500
building.

327
00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:31,850
And yet I don't see a single building on the university

328
00:16:31,850 --> 00:16:35,500
except Sherwin Williams that fits that description.

329
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:39,350
And so I'm just curious as to why does all the fit into

330
00:16:39,350 --> 00:16:42,500
that criteria, whereas nobody else has.

331
00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:45,490
That is a good question. It has to do with the zoning

332
00:16:45,490 --> 00:16:46,500
district.

333
00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:49,929
So this property is located in a neighborhood residential

334
00:16:49,929 --> 00:16:53,500
mixed use zoning district per the Denton development code.

335
00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:56,870
That neighborhood residential family of zoning districts is

336
00:16:56,870 --> 00:16:59,500
considered a pedestrian oriented district.

337
00:16:59,500 --> 00:17:03,500
And so they have some different site design guidelines.

338
00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:07,039
All much of the of the zoning on university is community

339
00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:08,500
mixed use general.

340
00:17:08,500 --> 00:17:12,019
It isn't a pedestrian. Those aren't considered pedestrian

341
00:17:12,019 --> 00:17:12,500
oriented.

342
00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:15,410
That isn't a pedestrian oriented district and therefore it

343
00:17:15,410 --> 00:17:17,500
has different site design requirements.

344
00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:21,299
And front parking is permitted in CMG provided that they

345
00:17:21,299 --> 00:17:24,500
they screen it in accordance with the code.

346
00:17:24,500 --> 00:17:26,500
Thank you.

347
00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:27,500
Commissioner Rossell.

348
00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:29,789
Thank you. I have two questions that piggyback both the

349
00:17:29,789 --> 00:17:30,500
earlier comments.

350
00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:34,500
The first is the mention of ground signage.

351
00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:37,680
Am I missing something? How inclusive or exclusive is

352
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:38,500
ground signage?

353
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:41,450
Is there other kind of signage that they're allowed to use

354
00:17:41,450 --> 00:17:43,500
apart from ground signage on Ector?

355
00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:46,500
They could a wall sign on the building.

356
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:50,630
They would still have to meet the setbacks for any illum

357
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:52,500
ination for the sign.

358
00:17:52,500 --> 00:17:56,569
But but yes, we separate the indent and signs between wall

359
00:17:56,569 --> 00:17:58,500
signs and ground signs.

360
00:17:58,500 --> 00:18:02,500
So a ground sign would be a monument sign or a pole sign.

361
00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:04,500
Any anything that's not attached to a building.

362
00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:07,819
So apart from the building, if you're on Ector, the goal is

363
00:18:07,819 --> 00:18:11,500
to not have a visual sign.

364
00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:14,519
And that's what we discussed with the applicant to not have

365
00:18:14,519 --> 00:18:15,500
that sign on Ector.

366
00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:18,970
And the second question I have is in regards to the

367
00:18:18,970 --> 00:18:20,500
specific zoning.

368
00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:26,819
The FAR, Florida area ratio of 40 percent seems to

369
00:18:26,819 --> 00:18:28,500
encourage a certain amount of density.

370
00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:31,680
They're asking for a less dense application. Am I

371
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:32,500
understanding that?

372
00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:34,500
They are.

373
00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:37,900
The intent of that higher Florida area ratio in pedestrian

374
00:18:37,900 --> 00:18:43,740
oriented districts is to encourage buildings and pedestrian

375
00:18:43,740 --> 00:18:47,369
people areas to take up more of the lot so that you

376
00:18:47,369 --> 00:18:50,500
activate more of the lot for people.

377
00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:54,640
So by going less than that, you're having less room for

378
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:55,500
people.

379
00:18:55,500 --> 00:18:58,500
So that's why that's a part of the request.

380
00:18:58,500 --> 00:18:59,500
That makes sense.

381
00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:02,500
Thank you.

382
00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:03,500
Commissioner Ellis.

383
00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:04,500
Thank you, Chair.

384
00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:07,160
Julie, do you know anything about the lighting that's going

385
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:07,500
in?

386
00:19:07,500 --> 00:19:29,490
They will have to meet all DDC requirements for lighting.

387
00:19:29,490 --> 00:19:29,500
And let me get my code so I quote it correctly.

388
00:19:29,500 --> 00:19:38,500
Subchapter 13.

389
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:42,150
Light performance standards in subchapter 13 state that

390
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:45,509
light cannot measure more than one half foot candle at the

391
00:19:45,509 --> 00:19:46,500
property line.

392
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:49,599
And then any pedestrian has to have areas have to have one

393
00:19:49,599 --> 00:19:50,500
foot candle.

394
00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:53,539
So so they would have to meet the subchapter 13

395
00:19:53,539 --> 00:19:56,500
requirements for commercial development.

396
00:19:56,500 --> 00:20:04,799
If they didn't, they'd have to come back and ask ask you if

397
00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:08,500
they could vary from that.

398
00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:12,500
Any other questions for staff.

399
00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:17,500
Thank you, Julie.

400
00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:23,500
Julie, you might want to stay.

401
00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:29,440
Next discussion item is the 160016, which is a request by

402
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,500
DSD for a public hearing for a change in zoning.

403
00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:33,500
All right.

404
00:20:33,500 --> 00:20:39,500
This request is the 1616 the ISD student services.

405
00:20:39,500 --> 00:20:44,160
I put some additional letters on your chairs about this one

406
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:44,500
.

407
00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:48,910
There's some opposition and then letters in opposition and

408
00:20:48,910 --> 00:20:50,500
letters in favor.

409
00:20:50,500 --> 00:20:55,799
So the request before you is to consider a rezoning for two

410
00:20:55,799 --> 00:21:00,500
tracks from NR3 neighborhood residential three to and

411
00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:04,039
downtown residential two to downtown commercial

412
00:21:04,039 --> 00:21:09,500
neighborhood on approximately five point five acres.

413
00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:11,500
We're going to get to the specifics of this request.

414
00:21:11,500 --> 00:21:14,779
But before we do that, I kind of want to just take a

415
00:21:14,779 --> 00:21:18,299
broader look at the zoning in the area, particularly the

416
00:21:18,299 --> 00:21:19,500
area north of downtown.

417
00:21:19,500 --> 00:21:21,500
So this is the area north of downtown.

418
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:24,500
Here's the courthouse down here.

419
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:25,500
And this is the subject property.

420
00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:28,500
So you just keep that in mind.

421
00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:32,420
So this is the current land use of the property north of

422
00:21:32,420 --> 00:21:33,500
downtown.

423
00:21:33,500 --> 00:21:36,500
I actually did mark the courthouse right here.

424
00:21:36,500 --> 00:21:39,599
So you can see near the courthouse, this pink is commercial

425
00:21:39,599 --> 00:21:40,500
development.

426
00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:42,500
And this is our downtown core.

427
00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:44,500
And you can see it's a lot of pink.

428
00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:48,450
As you go north up Elm and Locust, you see you see a lot of

429
00:21:48,450 --> 00:21:52,569
pink and then it fades into the yellow, the yellow being

430
00:21:52,569 --> 00:21:54,500
single family homes.

431
00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:57,500
This area just north is a mix of uses.

432
00:21:57,500 --> 00:21:58,500
It's got single family.

433
00:21:58,500 --> 00:22:00,500
It's got some small apartment complexes.

434
00:22:00,500 --> 00:22:02,500
It has some office uses.

435
00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:04,500
It has some restaurant uses.

436
00:22:04,500 --> 00:22:07,500
You have TWU in this area.

437
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:10,079
As you go north to university, that's where this auto

438
00:22:10,079 --> 00:22:11,500
oriented development.

439
00:22:11,500 --> 00:22:14,680
That's a lot of commercial development and you can see

440
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,500
there's a lot of pink there.

441
00:22:16,500 --> 00:22:19,759
And then when you get in this area, you can see a lot of

442
00:22:19,759 --> 00:22:20,500
yellow.

443
00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:25,640
That really is an established single family neighborhood

444
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,500
just adjacent to the request.

445
00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:31,140
And then when you look at the same vantage point with the

446
00:22:31,140 --> 00:22:33,910
zoning, you can see the zoning actually kind of reflects

447
00:22:33,910 --> 00:22:34,500
that.

448
00:22:34,500 --> 00:22:39,500
This dark green being the downtown development, that's DCG.

449
00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:42,500
That's our downtown core zoning district.

450
00:22:42,500 --> 00:22:44,500
We have DR2 north of that.

451
00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:47,380
That is one of our downtown zoning districts, downtown

452
00:22:47,380 --> 00:22:48,500
residential two.

453
00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:53,500
It does permit a mix of uses, some small scale office uses,

454
00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:58,480
some multifamily, single family residential as well as du

455
00:22:58,480 --> 00:22:59,500
plex, I believe.

456
00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:01,500
So it's got a mix of uses.

457
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:03,500
Once again, TWU is here.

458
00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:08,279
CMG, we see CMG, one of our more commercial districts along

459
00:23:08,279 --> 00:23:09,500
university.

460
00:23:09,500 --> 00:23:12,950
And then our neighborhood residential three, that's

461
00:23:12,950 --> 00:23:16,609
reflected where that single family, where you saw a lot of

462
00:23:16,609 --> 00:23:18,500
yellow in the current land use.

463
00:23:18,500 --> 00:23:20,500
And R3 is one of our lower density zoning districts.

464
00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:23,500
It permits three and a half dwelling units per acre.

465
00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:29,190
So you can see our current zoning and our land use mirror

466
00:23:29,190 --> 00:23:32,500
each other to some respects.

467
00:23:32,500 --> 00:23:35,500
So now we're going to get specific to this request.

468
00:23:35,500 --> 00:23:39,839
It is on two tracks, the first track being here, or the

469
00:23:39,839 --> 00:23:42,500
first track I'm referring to.

470
00:23:42,500 --> 00:23:45,500
It's adjacent to Bolivar and Elm.

471
00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:49,420
Second is on the bottom, or on the southern part, and then

472
00:23:49,420 --> 00:23:51,500
third is on the north side.

473
00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:55,500
And then here's track two, which is between Locust and Elm.

474
00:23:55,500 --> 00:24:01,440
It's important to note, Denton ISD is coming to the city to

475
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,500
rezone, not for use.

476
00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:07,720
Because it's Denton ISD, it's permitted in any zoning

477
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:08,500
district.

478
00:24:08,500 --> 00:24:12,069
So we're not really talking about use, or in their specific

479
00:24:12,069 --> 00:24:14,500
case, we're not talking about use.

480
00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:19,240
They're actually coming to the city because of lot coverage

481
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,849
, because the zoning districts that they're in have a lower

482
00:24:22,849 --> 00:24:24,500
lot coverage than what they need in order to redevelop.

483
00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:29,140
Also, before I leave this slide, once again I want to point

484
00:24:29,140 --> 00:24:32,500
out, you can see maybe more clearly this residential

485
00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:34,500
development pattern here.

486
00:24:34,500 --> 00:24:37,500
And then it becomes a little more mixed use in this area.

487
00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:41,500
You can really see the residential here.

488
00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:44,680
So when we look a little closer at the current zoning, we

489
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,940
see that tract one is split down the middle with two zon

490
00:24:48,940 --> 00:24:49,500
ings.

491
00:24:49,500 --> 00:24:54,500
NR3 district and then DR2 district.

492
00:24:54,500 --> 00:24:58,500
This tract two is wholly within DR2 district.

493
00:24:58,500 --> 00:25:03,029
There is DCN adjacent, and that is part of the Denton ISD

494
00:25:03,029 --> 00:25:06,500
administration facility right here.

495
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:09,500
And then DCG district is the dark green.

496
00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:12,490
NR3, as I said before, is primarily single family

497
00:25:12,490 --> 00:25:13,500
residential.

498
00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:16,049
It's lower density, three and a half dwelling units per

499
00:25:16,049 --> 00:25:16,500
acre.

500
00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:19,799
Maximum building height of 40 feet and then a max lot

501
00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:21,500
coverage of 50 feet.

502
00:25:21,500 --> 00:25:25,730
And as I looked at my staff report today, I realized I put

503
00:25:25,730 --> 00:25:30,500
30, the lot coverage is 30% instead of 50%.

504
00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:32,500
So that was an error on my staff report.

505
00:25:32,500 --> 00:25:37,500
But the max lot coverage in NR3 is 50%.

506
00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:40,599
Lot coverage within the city of Denton includes the

507
00:25:40,599 --> 00:25:43,500
building as well as any impervious surface.

508
00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:49,250
So all the parking areas, all of the sidewalks, all of the

509
00:25:49,250 --> 00:25:52,670
drive aisles, as well as the building, those all count

510
00:25:52,670 --> 00:25:54,500
toward lot coverage.

511
00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:56,500
DR2, so that's NR3.

512
00:25:56,500 --> 00:26:00,500
DR2 does permit moderate density residential uses.

513
00:26:00,500 --> 00:26:02,500
It permits small scale commercial uses.

514
00:26:02,500 --> 00:26:07,500
It has a maximum building height of 45 feet and then a max

515
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:10,500
maximum lot coverage of 75%.

516
00:26:10,500 --> 00:26:14,500
Some photos I took of the surrounding area.

517
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:17,599
Once again, I'm not good at taking photos, so don't expect

518
00:26:17,599 --> 00:26:18,500
great things.

519
00:26:18,500 --> 00:26:22,450
But here is Locust and you can see the development pattern

520
00:26:22,450 --> 00:26:23,500
in the area.

521
00:26:23,500 --> 00:26:28,349
It's primarily one and two story office buildings and then

522
00:26:28,349 --> 00:26:32,500
some of the multifamily do go up to three story.

523
00:26:32,500 --> 00:26:36,500
This is Elm.

524
00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:39,500
Once again, kind of the same development pattern.

525
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:41,500
And then here is Bolivar.

526
00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:44,049
Bolivar is getting where you're more getting into the

527
00:26:44,049 --> 00:26:46,319
primarily residential area and you can see this is looking

528
00:26:46,319 --> 00:26:50,500
north and then this is looking south.

529
00:26:50,500 --> 00:26:54,500
The future land use designation.

530
00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:58,890
As we've talked about before, the future land use, it doesn

531
00:26:58,890 --> 00:27:00,500
't have hard lines.

532
00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:04,039
Those lines are kind of transitional areas and so we sort

533
00:27:04,039 --> 00:27:07,500
of look, so we can look at it more comprehensively.

534
00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:08,500
There are two tracts.

535
00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:10,500
So tract one is on the edge.

536
00:27:10,500 --> 00:27:13,539
It is in downtown compatibility area, but it is also on the

537
00:27:13,539 --> 00:27:15,500
edge of low density residential.

538
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:17,319
So we wanted to make sure we looked at that comprehensively

539
00:27:17,319 --> 00:27:17,500
.

540
00:27:17,500 --> 00:27:20,500
So we looked at both of those future land use designations.

541
00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:24,710
Track two is in, wholly within the downtown compatibility

542
00:27:24,710 --> 00:27:25,500
area.

543
00:27:25,500 --> 00:27:28,359
The future land use designation for low density residential

544
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:35,500
, its intent is to encourage single family dwellings,

545
00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:39,369
maximum of four dwelling units per acre, kind of a suburban

546
00:27:39,369 --> 00:27:41,500
style development pattern.

547
00:27:41,500 --> 00:27:44,529
The downtown compatibility area, future land use

548
00:27:44,529 --> 00:27:49,500
designation, its intent is to create a compatible form and

549
00:27:49,500 --> 00:27:53,500
uses that strengthen both downtown and adjacent neighbors.

550
00:27:53,500 --> 00:27:54,500
And that's important.

551
00:27:54,500 --> 00:27:58,259
And when you look at a larger future land use map, you can

552
00:27:58,259 --> 00:28:01,500
see this dark red, that's downtown Denton.

553
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:04,500
That is a really intense district.

554
00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:08,400
But then we have this downtown compatibility area that

555
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,500
comes out of that to the north and then here to the east.

556
00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:17,640
And you can see it really does buffer and it's a transition

557
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,500
area between the downtown and the neighborhoods.

558
00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:26,960
Considerations we looked at when we reviewed this project

559
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,670
was first tract one protrudes into an established single

560
00:28:30,670 --> 00:28:33,500
family residential neighborhood that's zoned NR3.

561
00:28:33,500 --> 00:28:38,150
We felt that this neighborhood derives protection from this

562
00:28:38,150 --> 00:28:39,500
existing zoning.

563
00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:42,539
And that DCN would increase the likelihood of a domino

564
00:28:42,539 --> 00:28:46,069
effect of encroachment into the neighborhood, potentially

565
00:28:46,069 --> 00:28:47,500
compromising its integrity.

566
00:28:47,500 --> 00:28:49,500
So what does that mean?

567
00:28:49,500 --> 00:28:52,500
All right. I have some animation, so let's hope it works.

568
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:54,500
So let's go back to the current zoning.

569
00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:58,500
So here's our current zoning map.

570
00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:02,740
There's a really hard line between the existing NR3 and the

571
00:29:02,740 --> 00:29:03,500
DR2.

572
00:29:03,500 --> 00:29:06,500
And that's shown in that red line.

573
00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:10,990
And that really does protect that residential neighborhood

574
00:29:10,990 --> 00:29:14,500
because it only permits single family uses.

575
00:29:14,500 --> 00:29:18,019
It doesn't allow it to redevelop with multifamily or

576
00:29:18,019 --> 00:29:19,500
commercial uses.

577
00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:24,500
It really does protect that existing development pattern.

578
00:29:24,500 --> 00:29:29,500
And as you can see, it's also reflected in the land use.

579
00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:33,500
So when you put that hard red line there, you can see the

580
00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:38,009
yellow is in the NR3 side, whereas the part that's in DR2

581
00:29:38,009 --> 00:29:42,500
is developed to reflect what the zoning district permits.

582
00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:45,940
So when we get a little closer in to the project, once

583
00:29:45,940 --> 00:29:51,500
again, we've got our hard line on the NR3 and the DR2.

584
00:29:51,500 --> 00:29:58,259
If DCN moved forward and was approved, it would break that

585
00:29:58,259 --> 00:30:03,109
hard line and it would project into that residential

586
00:30:03,109 --> 00:30:04,500
neighborhood,

587
00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:09,240
potentially allowing adjacent properties to rezone and then

588
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,170
affect that development pattern because they could be rede

589
00:30:13,170 --> 00:30:15,500
veloped in a way that isn't consistent with what's there.

590
00:30:15,500 --> 00:30:21,500
Because this is a cohesive, well established neighborhood.

591
00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:24,700
Our second consideration was that the proposed DCN district

592
00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:27,410
would create incompatibilities with the existing

593
00:30:27,410 --> 00:30:29,500
development pattern and land uses.

594
00:30:29,500 --> 00:30:32,140
As we saw in those photos, the current land use or the

595
00:30:32,140 --> 00:30:34,910
current development in the area really is kind of small

596
00:30:34,910 --> 00:30:35,500
scale.

597
00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:38,740
It's single family homes, it's offices, but they're one and

598
00:30:38,740 --> 00:30:39,500
two story.

599
00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:43,500
It's some small multifamily, maximum three stories.

600
00:30:43,500 --> 00:30:47,500
So it's kind of a small scale development.

601
00:30:47,500 --> 00:30:52,140
DCN's maximum height is 100 feet and the maximum density is

602
00:30:52,140 --> 00:30:56,099
72 dwelling units an acre, which is quite a bit different

603
00:30:56,099 --> 00:30:57,500
than what's existing.

604
00:30:57,500 --> 00:31:01,500
And let's compare some of the land use tables with that.

605
00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:05,349
So here's NR3, it's single family, it permits three and a

606
00:31:05,349 --> 00:31:07,500
half dwelling units per acre.

607
00:31:07,500 --> 00:31:10,500
DR2 permits 30 dwelling units per acre.

608
00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:15,609
DCN goes all the way to 72, so there's quite a big jump

609
00:31:15,609 --> 00:31:16,500
there.

610
00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:20,410
As far as commercial districts, NR3 doesn't permit

611
00:31:20,410 --> 00:31:24,500
commercial, it is a residential zoning district, DR2.

612
00:31:24,500 --> 00:31:27,500
Permits the small scale, under 5,000 square feet.

613
00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:30,710
When you get to DCN, retail and offices could go up to 25,

614
00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:35,500
000 square feet per lot, so they're quite a bit different.

615
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:40,950
And then industrial and institutional uses, just as an

616
00:31:40,950 --> 00:31:45,500
example, the elderly housing isn't permitted in NR3 or DR2.

617
00:31:45,500 --> 00:31:48,500
It could go up to 55,000 square feet in DCN.

618
00:31:48,500 --> 00:31:52,500
So it's just the scale of development is different.

619
00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:55,789
And then when you look at the building envelope, what part

620
00:31:55,789 --> 00:31:59,069
of the lot a developer could actually construct a building

621
00:31:59,069 --> 00:31:59,500
in?

622
00:31:59,500 --> 00:32:03,099
When you look at NR3, the maximum lot coverage is 50%, the

623
00:32:03,099 --> 00:32:09,500
maximum building height is 40 feet, DR2 is 45 feet.

624
00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:13,500
Maximum height in DCN goes all the way to 100 feet.

625
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:18,529
So although the current applicant isn't proposing to build

626
00:32:18,529 --> 00:32:22,500
something that high, when we look at a rezoning,

627
00:32:22,500 --> 00:32:25,200
we have to look at all of the uses that are permitted in

628
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,500
that zoning district and how it could potentially develop.

629
00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:33,609
And when we look at how DCN could potentially develop, it

630
00:32:33,609 --> 00:32:39,339
really could dwarf what is existing there and would really

631
00:32:39,339 --> 00:32:43,500
be out of scale for what's in the neighborhood.

632
00:32:43,500 --> 00:32:45,500
We also looked at Denton Plan 2030.

633
00:32:45,500 --> 00:32:49,500
DCN doesn't meet the intent of low density residential.

634
00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:52,450
It is a commercial and a mixed use zoning district, so it

635
00:32:52,450 --> 00:32:55,670
doesn't meet what we consider to be low density residential

636
00:32:55,670 --> 00:32:56,500
in the city.

637
00:32:56,500 --> 00:33:00,069
Downtown compatibility area, DCN could be appropriate for

638
00:33:00,069 --> 00:33:01,500
this future land use.

639
00:33:01,500 --> 00:33:03,650
And I want to make that clear because it could be

640
00:33:03,650 --> 00:33:04,500
appropriate.

641
00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:08,259
However, when we look at the character of the immediate

642
00:33:08,259 --> 00:33:10,500
area and the surrounding area,

643
00:33:10,500 --> 00:33:13,680
it really wouldn't balance the protection of the

644
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,500
neighborhoods with the commercial needs of downtown.

645
00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:20,930
DCN district would probably be more appropriate to the

646
00:33:20,930 --> 00:33:23,500
south, closer to downtown.

647
00:33:23,500 --> 00:33:26,690
So it could be that buffer, be that bridge between the

648
00:33:26,690 --> 00:33:29,500
downtown development and the neighborhoods.

649
00:33:29,500 --> 00:33:32,109
And that expanding DCN district in this area could

650
00:33:32,109 --> 00:33:34,500
potentially create a new commercial hub.

651
00:33:34,500 --> 00:33:38,500
And just to show you the map.

652
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:40,500
So there is DCN existing here.

653
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:44,690
But by expanding that, you're kind of skipping over this

654
00:33:44,690 --> 00:33:49,000
sort of lower scale development to potentially creating a

655
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:53,500
new development pattern here within the neighborhood.

656
00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:57,859
And staff doesn't really feel that that's an appropriate

657
00:33:57,859 --> 00:33:59,500
land use pattern.

658
00:33:59,500 --> 00:34:03,349
Final consideration, the DISD central offices have been in

659
00:34:03,349 --> 00:34:05,500
this location for many years.

660
00:34:05,500 --> 00:34:09,949
Staff feels like this is a great infill and it's good in

661
00:34:09,949 --> 00:34:11,500
this location.

662
00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:14,500
And it presents a desirable opportunity.

663
00:34:14,500 --> 00:34:17,469
So we don't have issue with the use or actually what they

664
00:34:17,469 --> 00:34:18,500
're proposing.

665
00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:22,659
However, we do feel that the zoning district that they are

666
00:34:22,659 --> 00:34:26,219
proposing is incompatible with the existing development

667
00:34:26,219 --> 00:34:28,500
pattern and zoning pattern.

668
00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:32,570
And that we want them to redevelop, but we'd like for them

669
00:34:32,570 --> 00:34:36,570
to take a more conservative approach, possibly approaching

670
00:34:36,570 --> 00:34:38,500
ZBA for variance for the lot coverage.

671
00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:40,500
Because their use is permitted.

672
00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:42,500
We did send out a public notification.

673
00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:47,539
We've received a couple or three in opposition and one in

674
00:34:47,539 --> 00:34:48,500
favor.

675
00:34:48,500 --> 00:34:51,500
I'm sorry, two in favor.

676
00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:54,489
So based upon the considerations and the criteria for

677
00:34:54,489 --> 00:34:57,670
approval in the development code, staff does recommend

678
00:34:57,670 --> 00:35:00,500
denial of this request and Manal would like to add.

679
00:35:00,500 --> 00:35:01,500
Actually, I have a question.

680
00:35:01,500 --> 00:35:02,500
Yes, ma'am.

681
00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:05,679
Would you please elaborate a little bit on what DISD is

682
00:35:05,679 --> 00:35:06,500
proposing?

683
00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:09,789
I believe they're expanding their facility or are they

684
00:35:09,789 --> 00:35:11,500
raising and rebuilding?

685
00:35:11,500 --> 00:35:12,500
They are.

686
00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:14,500
Because this is pertinent then to.

687
00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:20,349
And the applicant is here and I'm sure they'll provide

688
00:35:20,349 --> 00:35:22,500
their site plan. But yes, they are.

689
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:23,500
This is probably good.

690
00:35:23,500 --> 00:35:26,579
What they're actually proposing, this building right here,

691
00:35:26,579 --> 00:35:28,719
I don't know if you can see it very well, they intend for

692
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:29,500
that to remain.

693
00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:30,500
That won't change.

694
00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:32,500
And that's the part that's in NR3.

695
00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:36,369
They are proposing additional parking for that in order to

696
00:35:36,369 --> 00:35:38,500
accommodate the employees.

697
00:35:38,500 --> 00:35:41,500
So this is the NR3 portion.

698
00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:43,500
This can only be 50 percent lot coverage.

699
00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:44,500
It exceeds it now.

700
00:35:44,500 --> 00:35:49,679
So they would need to either rezone or go to ZBA in order

701
00:35:49,679 --> 00:35:51,500
to expand that.

702
00:35:51,500 --> 00:35:56,139
There are also some structures on this site that they would

703
00:35:56,139 --> 00:36:01,500
like to tear down and build a new facility here.

704
00:36:01,500 --> 00:36:05,969
They've actually, this map doesn't reflect it, but they

705
00:36:05,969 --> 00:36:09,070
have abandoned Gary Street and are actually creating a

706
00:36:09,070 --> 00:36:10,500
pedestrian walkway.

707
00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:14,500
It looks great.

708
00:36:14,500 --> 00:36:18,019
So that the people who work in this facility have a safe

709
00:36:18,019 --> 00:36:20,500
place to cross between buildings.

710
00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:24,449
They're working with TextDOT in order to get some sort of

711
00:36:24,449 --> 00:36:28,860
light or something to accommodate that pedestrian crossing

712
00:36:28,860 --> 00:36:29,500
here.

713
00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:32,500
So that's actually going there.

714
00:36:32,500 --> 00:36:35,219
And honestly, I can't remember, but I'm sure they can tell

715
00:36:35,219 --> 00:36:37,500
us what they're going to do in this location.

716
00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:39,500
So there is some rebuilding.

717
00:36:39,500 --> 00:36:41,500
There's some redevelopment.

718
00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:46,500
It's a rather comprehensive package.

719
00:36:46,500 --> 00:36:47,500
Commissioner Taylor.

720
00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:49,500
Thank you, Chair.

721
00:36:49,500 --> 00:36:55,070
Could you pull up a closer up aerial or maybe a Google Maps

722
00:36:55,070 --> 00:36:58,500
image or aerial just zoomed in?

723
00:36:58,500 --> 00:37:02,500
Let's see if I can.

724
00:37:02,500 --> 00:37:04,500
Go back to Google Maps instead of Google Maps.

725
00:37:04,500 --> 00:37:05,500
I know.

726
00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:06,500
It's so much better than my picture.

727
00:37:06,500 --> 00:37:15,500
It's zoomable.

728
00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:19,500
We might have to flip back and forth to answer my question.

729
00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:20,500
How about that?

730
00:37:20,500 --> 00:37:22,500
Yes.

731
00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:25,710
So we're looking at the two red roofed buildings, this

732
00:37:25,710 --> 00:37:28,860
thing over here, and then these two silver roofed

733
00:37:28,860 --> 00:37:31,500
commercial buildings right there.

734
00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:36,610
And the current thing marked independent school district,

735
00:37:36,610 --> 00:37:38,500
that's already DCN.

736
00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:39,500
Yes, sir.

737
00:37:39,500 --> 00:37:40,500
Okay.

738
00:37:40,500 --> 00:37:44,239
And so the density on or the lot coverage just south of

739
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,500
Gary is already at like 80 or 90%.

740
00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:48,500
It is.

741
00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:49,500
It's already completely.

742
00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:53,349
And then the two red roofed lot buildings, those are at

743
00:37:53,349 --> 00:37:56,500
probably at least 80%, looks like.

744
00:37:56,500 --> 00:37:59,500
There's a little bit of grass back in the north side.

745
00:37:59,500 --> 00:38:01,500
Well, they actually, this is a public alley.

746
00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:07,760
Once their intent is to replat all of this, abandon this

747
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:12,500
public alley, and all of this would be one lot.

748
00:38:12,500 --> 00:38:13,500
Right.

749
00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:18,309
I'm just trying to understand the history here because

750
00:38:18,309 --> 00:38:21,500
these were developed in the 80s.

751
00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:25,610
And they were built at a much higher lot coverage than like

752
00:38:25,610 --> 00:38:27,500
twice what's allowed.

753
00:38:27,500 --> 00:38:29,500
You know, almost 100% lot coverage.

754
00:38:29,500 --> 00:38:30,500
Okay.

755
00:38:30,500 --> 00:38:32,750
And then those, there used to be some little single family

756
00:38:32,750 --> 00:38:36,500
homes, I believe, down along third, I remember a few years

757
00:38:36,500 --> 00:38:37,500
ago it seems like.

758
00:38:37,500 --> 00:38:40,829
So those lots, they just bought empty lots or bought and

759
00:38:40,829 --> 00:38:43,500
demolished some old rental properties.

760
00:38:43,500 --> 00:38:44,500
Okay. Thank you.

761
00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:45,500
Sure.

762
00:38:45,500 --> 00:38:47,869
I just want to jump in on your comment, Devin, just for

763
00:38:47,869 --> 00:38:49,500
some of our newer commissioners.

764
00:38:49,500 --> 00:38:52,070
I think one of the reasons why we are having this lot

765
00:38:52,070 --> 00:38:55,090
coverage reform is because of the change in the definition

766
00:38:55,090 --> 00:38:57,500
of how the city determines lot coverage.

767
00:38:57,500 --> 00:38:58,500
Right.

768
00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:00,500
It didn't used to be all impervious.

769
00:39:00,500 --> 00:39:03,420
It used to just be essentially the structure, the sidewalks

770
00:39:03,420 --> 00:39:05,500
, the parking lots were not included.

771
00:39:05,500 --> 00:39:08,500
That changed a number of years ago, five?

772
00:39:08,500 --> 00:39:10,500
2000.

773
00:39:10,500 --> 00:39:12,500
2000 and something, I believe.

774
00:39:12,500 --> 00:39:14,500
But a number of years ago, absolutely right.

775
00:39:14,500 --> 00:39:17,429
And so that's why I just want to say for the record that

776
00:39:17,429 --> 00:39:20,699
DISD didn't build something that is not in compliance with

777
00:39:20,699 --> 00:39:21,500
our code.

778
00:39:21,500 --> 00:39:22,500
Correct.

779
00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:26,219
City of Denton changed the definition of lot coverage and

780
00:39:26,219 --> 00:39:28,500
now that's created this issue.

781
00:39:28,500 --> 00:39:29,500
Correct.

782
00:39:29,500 --> 00:39:31,500
So just to add on to that clarification.

783
00:39:31,500 --> 00:39:32,500
Commissioner Rozelle.

784
00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:34,500
Thank you.

785
00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:38,449
The Northeast building, DISD, has that recently come before

786
00:39:38,449 --> 00:39:42,239
the commission for rezoning to DCN or what's the history to

787
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:43,500
get that to DCN?

788
00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:46,360
It was approved during the city or it was done during the

789
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,500
citywide rezoning in 2002.

790
00:39:48,500 --> 00:39:51,269
Is there, this might be a very difficult question to answer

791
00:39:51,269 --> 00:39:51,500
.

792
00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:55,760
Is there a reason that that was DCN but the other seemingly

793
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:00,150
same interested buildings was not put into DCN at that time

794
00:40:00,150 --> 00:40:00,500
?

795
00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:01,500
I could guess.

796
00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:05,730
But my guess is that DISD was there and so they just, they

797
00:40:05,730 --> 00:40:09,500
zoned it in accordance with what was existing.

798
00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:12,070
I don't know why other properties, I don't know why others

799
00:40:12,070 --> 00:40:12,500
were left out.

800
00:40:12,500 --> 00:40:14,500
So it's a good question.

801
00:40:14,500 --> 00:40:17,110
The other question, maybe not even a question, concern I

802
00:40:17,110 --> 00:40:19,960
have is you brought up a couple times with some sweet

803
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:21,500
animations a hard line.

804
00:40:21,500 --> 00:40:24,500
That hard line's not even on a road for my estimations.

805
00:40:24,500 --> 00:40:27,059
It was just put in at the end of where single family

806
00:40:27,059 --> 00:40:28,500
housing happens to end.

807
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:29,500
Yes.

808
00:40:29,500 --> 00:40:33,030
So it seems like a convenient lines to put in but it's not

809
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:36,500
an actual road delineation between those two zones.

810
00:40:36,500 --> 00:40:39,760
And it seems like the current construction already breaks

811
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,639
that hard line, making it not really a hard line at all in

812
00:40:44,639 --> 00:40:45,500
my estimation.

813
00:40:45,500 --> 00:40:47,500
Because their property already crosses it.

814
00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:49,500
That line is not on a road.

815
00:40:49,500 --> 00:40:52,309
It comes down, kind of does a jig-jag around their property

816
00:40:52,309 --> 00:40:53,500
and then continues.

817
00:40:53,500 --> 00:40:54,500
There's an alley there.

818
00:40:54,500 --> 00:40:56,500
I can address that.

819
00:40:56,500 --> 00:40:57,500
For a couple blocks, yeah.

820
00:40:57,500 --> 00:40:58,500
Right, you're absolutely right.

821
00:40:58,500 --> 00:41:02,590
The hard line is not a physical separation by a right of

822
00:41:02,590 --> 00:41:04,500
way or specific uses.

823
00:41:04,500 --> 00:41:07,710
In fact, that hard line is specific to zoning designation

824
00:41:07,710 --> 00:41:08,500
hard line.

825
00:41:08,500 --> 00:41:10,909
That zoning designation that you see on this subject

826
00:41:10,909 --> 00:41:14,050
property, the subject property is split and has two zoning

827
00:41:14,050 --> 00:41:17,500
categories, the NR3 and then the DR2.

828
00:41:17,500 --> 00:41:22,670
So in terms of the analysis of the fundamentals, really, if

829
00:41:22,670 --> 00:41:26,309
we were to get down to it, was we completely understand

830
00:41:26,309 --> 00:41:27,500
what's on this site.

831
00:41:27,500 --> 00:41:32,500
We completely see the vision that DISD has.

832
00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:34,889
We understand that and the expansion would, in fact,

833
00:41:34,889 --> 00:41:36,500
enhance the property, no doubt.

834
00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:42,440
However, the change in zoning for tract one or portion of

835
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,500
tract one, which is the NR3,

836
00:41:44,500 --> 00:41:47,880
could domino into piecemeal zoning requests that would

837
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,500
follow that red hard line or to the west of that hard line.

838
00:41:51,500 --> 00:41:55,030
And there have been, in fact, we have received some comment

839
00:41:55,030 --> 00:41:58,500
from adjacent property owners who felt that this, you know,

840
00:41:58,500 --> 00:41:58,500
great.

841
00:41:58,500 --> 00:42:01,769
Now I can go ahead and rezone my lot and do whatever I want

842
00:42:01,769 --> 00:42:02,500
with it.

843
00:42:02,500 --> 00:42:04,500
So this was a very difficult zoning case.

844
00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:08,400
Although it seems really simple, in reality, we're dealing

845
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,500
with a split zoning on a property that is already developed

846
00:42:11,500 --> 00:42:14,739
and is wanting to redevelop or, you know, reestablish and

847
00:42:14,739 --> 00:42:16,500
refine what they have.

848
00:42:16,500 --> 00:42:20,110
Yet we've got to grapple with the, or we've got the

849
00:42:20,110 --> 00:42:24,260
fundamental question that as planning staff, we have to

850
00:42:24,260 --> 00:42:28,440
answer is, would this truly be a detriment to the adjacent

851
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,500
built out, well established, older neighborhood.

852
00:42:31,500 --> 00:42:35,079
And yet we understand that to the west of that, to the east

853
00:42:35,079 --> 00:42:38,500
of that hard line, there are a number of mixed uses.

854
00:42:38,500 --> 00:42:41,679
And therefore, if we go back to Julie's recommendation or

855
00:42:41,679 --> 00:42:45,130
prior to her recommendation, her final consideration, that

856
00:42:45,130 --> 00:42:47,500
there is an alternative avenue available.

857
00:42:47,500 --> 00:42:51,099
And that's to seek a recommendation, a favorable

858
00:42:51,099 --> 00:42:55,489
recommendation from the zoning board of adjustment to allow

859
00:42:55,489 --> 00:42:59,500
them to build on an increased lot coverage premise.

860
00:42:59,500 --> 00:43:04,210
And again, a very difficult question to answer because we

861
00:43:04,210 --> 00:43:08,619
have to now ensure the integrity or protect or limit the

862
00:43:08,619 --> 00:43:12,489
dilution of that residential neighborhood because that's

863
00:43:12,489 --> 00:43:15,929
one of our charges is how do we maintain the integrity of

864
00:43:15,929 --> 00:43:17,500
these neighborhoods.

865
00:43:17,500 --> 00:43:18,500
>> Sure, that makes perfect sense.

866
00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:23,139
I guess, I guess my point or my perspective is, DEN ISD is

867
00:43:23,139 --> 00:43:25,500
not asking to encroach on a line.

868
00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:26,500
They're already past the line.

869
00:43:26,500 --> 00:43:29,869
They're just asking to further develop beyond the line they

870
00:43:29,869 --> 00:43:31,500
're already been passed.

871
00:43:31,500 --> 00:43:32,500
>> You're correct.

872
00:43:32,500 --> 00:43:36,449
So DISD is saying we already, and I'm speaking for DISD, so

873
00:43:36,449 --> 00:43:37,500
I'm paraphrasing.

874
00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:42,349
DISD is situated on a site or is their siting has two

875
00:43:42,349 --> 00:43:44,500
zoning districts.

876
00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:48,449
Let's assume that they were able to or they chose to expand

877
00:43:48,449 --> 00:43:51,579
under the existing parameters of the, because it's a split

878
00:43:51,579 --> 00:43:52,500
zoning.

879
00:43:52,500 --> 00:43:55,289
Wherever they were developing and whatever the crossover of

880
00:43:55,289 --> 00:43:58,500
that development were, if it were contained within the NR3,

881
00:43:58,500 --> 00:44:00,849
they would have to comply with the NR3 development

882
00:44:00,849 --> 00:44:05,630
regulations, which would hamper their ability to be able to

883
00:44:05,630 --> 00:44:08,500
use the lot to their liking.

884
00:44:08,500 --> 00:44:12,289
The same theory then applies to the DR2 component to the

885
00:44:12,289 --> 00:44:15,300
east where the hard red line is, where the hard line is,

886
00:44:15,300 --> 00:44:17,190
and they would have to comply with those lot coverage and

887
00:44:17,190 --> 00:44:18,500
building height requirements.

888
00:44:18,500 --> 00:44:20,500
Obviously, that's not conducive.

889
00:44:20,500 --> 00:44:24,210
On the other hand, if there was a crossover of buildings

890
00:44:24,210 --> 00:44:27,130
over that red line, so to speak, crossover of zoning

891
00:44:27,130 --> 00:44:30,250
district, then they would have to comply with the most

892
00:44:30,250 --> 00:44:32,500
restrictive zoning regulation.

893
00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:37,699
And so back to fundamentally, are we re-zoning, enabling a

894
00:44:37,699 --> 00:44:42,590
re-zoning on this property could cause dilution or could

895
00:44:42,590 --> 00:44:47,510
hamper the NR3 district to the north and to the south and

896
00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:52,909
eventually, as Julie showed in her sweet animation, to the

897
00:44:52,909 --> 00:44:53,500
west.

898
00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:57,929
However, there is an opportunity available, and that is the

899
00:44:57,929 --> 00:45:02,170
Zoning Board of Adjustment, so that they can then request a

900
00:45:02,170 --> 00:45:06,429
variance to their lot coverage requirements and allow them

901
00:45:06,429 --> 00:45:10,510
to go higher than what is permitted in the zoning district

902
00:45:10,510 --> 00:45:14,500
of NR3, for example, or DR2, for example.

903
00:45:14,500 --> 00:45:18,670
And that single change would suit the needs of the proposed

904
00:45:18,670 --> 00:45:21,500
reconstruction or redevelopment?

905
00:45:21,500 --> 00:45:25,500
I believe building height and lot coverage, correct, Julie?

906
00:45:25,500 --> 00:45:27,500
I don't even know if it's building height.

907
00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:29,500
It may just be lot coverage.

908
00:45:29,500 --> 00:45:30,500
Okay.

909
00:45:30,500 --> 00:45:37,500
But then again, there's no guarantee to the recommendation.

910
00:45:37,500 --> 00:45:38,500
Thank you.

911
00:45:38,500 --> 00:45:39,500
Commissioner Back.

912
00:45:39,500 --> 00:45:40,500
Thank you, Chair.

913
00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:44,860
Regarding this variance that they would seek, it wouldn't

914
00:45:44,860 --> 00:45:46,500
change the zoning.

915
00:45:46,500 --> 00:45:48,500
It would still be NR3.

916
00:45:48,500 --> 00:45:49,500
Right.

917
00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:51,500
Okay.

918
00:45:51,500 --> 00:45:54,469
It's my understanding, too, that what they want to do on

919
00:45:54,469 --> 00:45:57,500
the NR3 section, if you can go back to your Google map.

920
00:45:57,500 --> 00:46:01,500
Yes, sir.

921
00:46:01,500 --> 00:46:04,500
Where they want to do parking up there, is that correct?

922
00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:05,500
On that corner?

923
00:46:05,500 --> 00:46:08,769
That's just parking, no buildings going on there, is that

924
00:46:08,769 --> 00:46:09,500
correct?

925
00:46:09,500 --> 00:46:10,500
Correct.

926
00:46:10,500 --> 00:46:11,500
Okay.

927
00:46:11,500 --> 00:46:12,500
That's our understanding, yes.

928
00:46:12,500 --> 00:46:17,360
And DCN, is it a mixed use thing where housing can go in

929
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,500
with that, or is that purely commercial?

930
00:46:21,500 --> 00:46:24,500
No.

931
00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:26,500
I'll go back.

932
00:46:26,500 --> 00:46:29,239
DCN doesn't permit single family uses, but it does permit

933
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,500
some residential uses, multifamily duplexes.

934
00:46:31,500 --> 00:46:33,500
So it does permit a mix of residential uses.

935
00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:34,500
But not single family?

936
00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:35,500
No, sir.

937
00:46:35,500 --> 00:46:38,260
And again, the discussion, and I apologize, but the

938
00:46:38,260 --> 00:46:40,829
discussion goes back to, you know, when we look at the

939
00:46:40,829 --> 00:46:41,500
zoning change,

940
00:46:41,500 --> 00:46:43,539
we look at the site comprehensively and future redevelop

941
00:46:43,539 --> 00:46:44,500
ment of the site, too.

942
00:46:44,500 --> 00:46:47,500
Therefore, those fundamental questions have arisen.

943
00:46:47,500 --> 00:46:48,500
Right.

944
00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:49,500
Okay.

945
00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:50,500
Thank you.

946
00:46:50,500 --> 00:46:51,500
I want to jump in a second.

947
00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:53,500
I follow the logic on zoning.

948
00:46:53,500 --> 00:46:58,500
I tend to be very, as you know, pro on allowing these.

949
00:46:58,500 --> 00:47:03,150
My question would be more on the alternative for a variance

950
00:47:03,150 --> 00:47:03,500
.

951
00:47:03,500 --> 00:47:07,190
I know there are specific criteria that you have to meet to

952
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:09,500
be able to be granted a variance.

953
00:47:09,500 --> 00:47:13,599
Would this property meet those threshold requirements to

954
00:47:13,599 --> 00:47:15,500
qualify for a variance?

955
00:47:15,500 --> 00:47:21,349
And if so, would staff be willing to recommend for approval

956
00:47:21,349 --> 00:47:25,500
a variance that if we turn this down this evening

957
00:47:25,500 --> 00:47:30,239
or follow staff's recommendation that a variance would be

958
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,500
assured to DISD that they're not totally shut down

959
00:47:33,500 --> 00:47:35,500
and no longer can move forward?

960
00:47:35,500 --> 00:47:39,110
You're pointing at me to answer that question, and I will,

961
00:47:39,110 --> 00:47:40,500
actually happily.

962
00:47:40,500 --> 00:47:43,139
If you recall, we've clearly stated that the use and the

963
00:47:43,139 --> 00:47:45,500
expansion is something that we're in favor of.

964
00:47:45,500 --> 00:47:47,500
In fact, it is in field development.

965
00:47:47,500 --> 00:47:53,059
But because of the associated zoning districts, it makes it

966
00:47:53,059 --> 00:47:54,500
a very difficult decision, I believe,

967
00:47:54,500 --> 00:47:57,239
not just on the planning department's planning division's

968
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,500
part, but also yourselves when you're sitting here

969
00:47:59,500 --> 00:48:03,500
because you've got some fundamental issues to answer.

970
00:48:03,500 --> 00:48:05,840
However, when you look at the criteria of the Zoning Board

971
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:06,500
of Adjustment,

972
00:48:06,500 --> 00:48:08,750
and I hope I'm not digressing from the agenda topic, but

973
00:48:08,750 --> 00:48:12,500
there are several criteria that are listed in there.

974
00:48:12,500 --> 00:48:16,150
And primarily, there are some physical constraints on that

975
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:20,500
site which hamper the ability for it to redevelop

976
00:48:20,500 --> 00:48:23,500
or to develop or to accommodate expansion.

977
00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:26,679
And first blush, I would say that we should not have an

978
00:48:26,679 --> 00:48:29,500
objection, staff should not have an objection

979
00:48:29,500 --> 00:48:32,829
recommending favorably to the Zoning Board of Adjustment

980
00:48:32,829 --> 00:48:34,500
for this type of request.

981
00:48:34,500 --> 00:48:36,460
And we've had several requests in this manner that have

982
00:48:36,460 --> 00:48:37,500
gone forward in the past.

983
00:48:37,500 --> 00:48:41,500
Okay. So, Chair, I'm going to continue down this line.

984
00:48:41,500 --> 00:48:46,610
If, for example, in hypotheticals, if staff feels like

985
00:48:46,610 --> 00:48:49,059
based on what you described that we could look at a

986
00:48:49,059 --> 00:48:49,500
variance,

987
00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:53,059
would it be possible for us to table this, give the

988
00:48:53,059 --> 00:48:56,190
applicant an opportunity to apply and get their hopefully

989
00:48:56,190 --> 00:48:56,500
variance,

990
00:48:56,500 --> 00:48:59,489
and if for some reason there was an issue, this could then

991
00:48:59,489 --> 00:49:00,500
come back to us.

992
00:49:00,500 --> 00:49:03,599
I would actually like to defer to Aaron on just one

993
00:49:03,599 --> 00:49:04,500
question.

994
00:49:04,500 --> 00:49:08,300
Can we continue? And then depending on if the Zoning Board

995
00:49:08,300 --> 00:49:10,500
of Adjustment does not recommend favorably,

996
00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:13,250
I just want to verify if there's a time constraint or a

997
00:49:13,250 --> 00:49:14,500
time limit on that.

998
00:49:14,500 --> 00:49:16,500
I've always been of the opinion that you can do that.

999
00:49:16,500 --> 00:49:19,380
We don't necessarily have done that in the past here in the

1000
00:49:19,380 --> 00:49:21,500
City of Denton and other Texas cities.

1001
00:49:21,500 --> 00:49:25,340
I'm having practice in another state, doing the same kind

1002
00:49:25,340 --> 00:49:27,500
of work that was very common.

1003
00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:29,500
There's nothing that prohibits us from doing that.

1004
00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:33,539
But the ultimate decision on whether or not that should

1005
00:49:33,539 --> 00:49:36,500
occur would lie with the applicant.

1006
00:49:36,500 --> 00:49:38,500
The applicant can choose to say, I don't want to go to ZBA.

1007
00:49:38,500 --> 00:49:40,500
I want to take my chances and go forward here.

1008
00:49:40,500 --> 00:49:45,610
So it is possible, but it takes the applicant also to join

1009
00:49:45,610 --> 00:49:47,500
in that decision.

1010
00:49:47,500 --> 00:49:49,500
I understand, please.

1011
00:49:49,500 --> 00:49:51,500
Commissioner Ellis, I think you were next.

1012
00:49:51,500 --> 00:49:52,500
Thank you, Chair.

1013
00:49:52,500 --> 00:49:55,269
Yeah, I just wanted to go with what Munal was talking about

1014
00:49:55,269 --> 00:49:55,500
.

1015
00:49:55,500 --> 00:49:59,599
It's really the future when we do make this type of zoning

1016
00:49:59,599 --> 00:50:00,500
change.

1017
00:50:00,500 --> 00:50:05,070
If DISD down the road chooses to sell the lot, it does open

1018
00:50:05,070 --> 00:50:09,500
the door if we make this change to a world of possibilities

1019
00:50:09,500 --> 00:50:13,369
that the people along Bolivar and Second Street in

1020
00:50:13,369 --> 00:50:15,500
particular do not want.

1021
00:50:15,500 --> 00:50:20,500
I take this route twice a day on my way to Denton High.

1022
00:50:20,500 --> 00:50:24,849
There are at times that this building does impede on the

1023
00:50:24,849 --> 00:50:27,500
neighborhood often with parking.

1024
00:50:27,500 --> 00:50:31,030
And I do understand the need for expansion, and hopefully

1025
00:50:31,030 --> 00:50:33,500
maybe that would alleviate some parking down the road.

1026
00:50:33,500 --> 00:50:36,920
If they could expand currently where they are and take it

1027
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:38,500
off the street because it is dangerous right now,

1028
00:50:38,500 --> 00:50:43,530
I will tell you that any time that they're doing a large

1029
00:50:43,530 --> 00:50:45,500
education there.

1030
00:50:45,500 --> 00:50:48,400
But I think it's for the future that I would have to

1031
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,500
definitely agree with Staffan Boatnoh on this.

1032
00:50:51,500 --> 00:50:53,500
Commissioner Tyler.

1033
00:50:53,500 --> 00:50:54,500
Thank you, Chair.

1034
00:50:54,500 --> 00:50:58,300
I was going to go back to the procedural question of

1035
00:50:58,300 --> 00:51:01,500
potential options to push this to ZBA.

1036
00:51:01,500 --> 00:51:06,980
Would that be a new case, or would this case be transformed

1037
00:51:06,980 --> 00:51:07,500
into --

1038
00:51:07,500 --> 00:51:09,500
It would be a new application.

1039
00:51:09,500 --> 00:51:12,250
It would be a specific application for the Zoning Board of

1040
00:51:12,250 --> 00:51:13,500
Adjustment process.

1041
00:51:13,500 --> 00:51:17,159
So they would have to reapply, and we can determine the

1042
00:51:17,159 --> 00:51:20,500
associated fees and what have you with that.

1043
00:51:20,500 --> 00:51:22,500
Thank you.

1044
00:51:22,500 --> 00:51:23,500
Commissioner Shelton.

1045
00:51:23,500 --> 00:51:29,670
You know, to echo the concerns about parking, you mentioned

1046
00:51:29,670 --> 00:51:33,500
that the northern part would be pretty much parking a lot.

1047
00:51:33,500 --> 00:51:35,929
What's going to happen, I guess, on the east side where the

1048
00:51:35,929 --> 00:51:38,500
structures remain that they're going to be tearing down?

1049
00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:40,500
Is there going to be additional building?

1050
00:51:40,500 --> 00:51:45,500
And if so, is that then going to mean more parking spaces

1051
00:51:45,500 --> 00:51:47,500
or more people coming to work,

1052
00:51:47,500 --> 00:51:50,519
which now all of a sudden they've run out of parking spaces

1053
00:51:50,519 --> 00:51:52,500
so they're back out on the street?

1054
00:51:52,500 --> 00:51:54,500
And would that alleviate their parking issues?

1055
00:51:54,500 --> 00:51:58,369
The applicant is here, and I believe they are prepared to

1056
00:51:58,369 --> 00:52:00,500
discuss the numbers of employees,

1057
00:52:00,500 --> 00:52:05,500
how their proposal will affect the parking situation.

1058
00:52:05,500 --> 00:52:08,269
So if you don't mind, I'm going to defer to them because

1059
00:52:08,269 --> 00:52:10,500
they're a lot more well-versed on that.

1060
00:52:10,500 --> 00:52:11,500
Sure.

1061
00:52:11,500 --> 00:52:12,500
Okay.

1062
00:52:12,500 --> 00:52:14,500
How about this next?

1063
00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:15,500
Commissioner Roseau.

1064
00:52:15,500 --> 00:52:16,500
Thank you.

1065
00:52:16,500 --> 00:52:21,809
It seems often that it comes back, in my opinion, about

1066
00:52:21,809 --> 00:52:24,929
future land use versus current use and the difference of

1067
00:52:24,929 --> 00:52:25,500
that.

1068
00:52:25,500 --> 00:52:28,940
It's been explained to me explicitly that future land use

1069
00:52:28,940 --> 00:52:31,500
specifically has a gray blurred line.

1070
00:52:31,500 --> 00:52:32,500
Is that what we call it?

1071
00:52:32,500 --> 00:52:34,500
Fuzzy lines.

1072
00:52:34,500 --> 00:52:38,730
This is the first time I've ever seen from staff present a

1073
00:52:38,730 --> 00:52:42,699
hard line, specifically against all the blurry lines that

1074
00:52:42,699 --> 00:52:43,500
we do see.

1075
00:52:43,500 --> 00:52:46,190
And I'm wondering, is the reason that we're specifically

1076
00:52:46,190 --> 00:52:49,059
calling out this hard line, for the first time in my

1077
00:52:49,059 --> 00:52:50,500
experience,

1078
00:52:50,500 --> 00:52:55,059
for the protection of those houses, because it seems like

1079
00:52:55,059 --> 00:52:58,500
it's supposed to be a transition zoning.

1080
00:52:58,500 --> 00:53:02,449
And that is the difference between the future land use and

1081
00:53:02,449 --> 00:53:03,500
the zoning.

1082
00:53:03,500 --> 00:53:04,500
So you're right.

1083
00:53:04,500 --> 00:53:07,599
The future land use does have that fuzzy, and we can kind

1084
00:53:07,599 --> 00:53:08,500
of look at it.

1085
00:53:08,500 --> 00:53:11,800
We can analyze it both in the low-density residential as

1086
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,500
well as the downtown compatibility area.

1087
00:53:14,500 --> 00:53:17,500
But when we get to the zoning, that's when the hard line,

1088
00:53:17,500 --> 00:53:19,500
because that's when we get parcel by parcel.

1089
00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:20,500
So you're right.

1090
00:53:20,500 --> 00:53:23,500
The hard line is not with the future land use.

1091
00:53:23,500 --> 00:53:25,500
The hard line is with the zoning on that.

1092
00:53:25,500 --> 00:53:28,409
And to impress further upon that, Julie, if you go back to

1093
00:53:28,409 --> 00:53:31,500
that map where it shows the blurred areas,

1094
00:53:31,500 --> 00:53:35,989
when we talk about the downtown compatibility area, really

1095
00:53:35,989 --> 00:53:40,619
it's to make sure that we strengthen both the downtown and

1096
00:53:40,619 --> 00:53:41,500
adjacent neighborhoods.

1097
00:53:41,500 --> 00:53:44,599
And that's where then the analysis gets a little, we do a

1098
00:53:44,599 --> 00:53:46,500
deeper dive into the analysis.

1099
00:53:49,500 --> 00:53:51,500
Commissioner Begg.

1100
00:53:51,500 --> 00:53:52,500
Thank you, Chair.

1101
00:53:52,500 --> 00:53:57,659
And I would just add that transition is definitely what we

1102
00:53:57,659 --> 00:53:58,500
want.

1103
00:53:58,500 --> 00:54:02,630
But this change would create a transition that is kind of

1104
00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:06,889
outside the parameters of what I think is there and wants

1105
00:54:06,889 --> 00:54:07,500
to be there.

1106
00:54:07,500 --> 00:54:08,500
That would be my main concern.

1107
00:54:08,500 --> 00:54:11,389
You're looking at, if we go to DCN, you're looking at

1108
00:54:11,389 --> 00:54:13,500
possibly a seven, eight story building there.

1109
00:54:13,500 --> 00:54:17,730
And that would be a deep concern for me and the

1110
00:54:17,730 --> 00:54:19,500
neighborhood.

1111
00:54:19,500 --> 00:54:21,500
Commissioner Taylor.

1112
00:54:21,500 --> 00:54:23,929
So just exploring the philosophy that Commissioner Rozelle

1113
00:54:23,929 --> 00:54:26,500
brought up, I think it's important.

1114
00:54:26,500 --> 00:54:30,909
You know, I found, I find in my own viewing of the future

1115
00:54:30,909 --> 00:54:35,989
land use map is that in green filled areas, in areas that

1116
00:54:35,989 --> 00:54:38,500
haven't been developed,

1117
00:54:38,500 --> 00:54:40,900
you might have lots or you might have open land that is

1118
00:54:40,900 --> 00:54:43,409
potentially going to become parcels for single family

1119
00:54:43,409 --> 00:54:45,500
development or commercial development.

1120
00:54:45,500 --> 00:54:49,050
And I feel like those areas, those boundaries can move a

1121
00:54:49,050 --> 00:54:52,500
lot more because there isn't a clear expectation.

1122
00:54:52,500 --> 00:54:58,500
In a case like this, you have 50 or so single family homes.

1123
00:54:58,500 --> 00:55:00,500
Every single lot has a home on it.

1124
00:55:00,500 --> 00:55:04,500
They've been there for 60 to 80 years.

1125
00:55:04,500 --> 00:55:07,389
You know, I think there's a clear expectation that there is

1126
00:55:07,389 --> 00:55:08,500
a boundary there.

1127
00:55:08,500 --> 00:55:11,710
So I think that's another part of this fuzziness is

1128
00:55:11,710 --> 00:55:16,000
whenever it's a vacant lot or something that's been demol

1129
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,590
ished or doesn't have anything across the street from it or

1130
00:55:18,590 --> 00:55:19,500
those types of things,

1131
00:55:19,500 --> 00:55:22,940
there's less expectation that it's going to stay exactly

1132
00:55:22,940 --> 00:55:24,500
what it's designated.

1133
00:55:24,500 --> 00:55:28,570
But whenever you have 50 parcels in a row, you know, a

1134
00:55:28,570 --> 00:55:32,400
quarter mile or more in a pretty dense area, completely

1135
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:33,500
developed.

1136
00:55:33,500 --> 00:55:38,500
You know, if you go back to, is it one map back?

1137
00:55:38,500 --> 00:55:43,500
The one with the actual uses, sorry, forward.

1138
00:55:43,500 --> 00:55:45,380
You know, there's, you can see a lot of purple mixed in

1139
00:55:45,380 --> 00:55:46,500
with the yellow over here.

1140
00:55:46,500 --> 00:55:48,500
All these little commercial uses kind of sprinkled in.

1141
00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:52,840
But then there's this clear line, you know, down Bolivar

1142
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:57,500
and, you know, up at, what is that, about Westway or so.

1143
00:55:57,500 --> 00:56:01,500
There is nothing commercial in this big, big block.

1144
00:56:01,500 --> 00:56:05,260
So, and all of those, every single one of those lots has

1145
00:56:05,260 --> 00:56:06,500
been built out.

1146
00:56:06,500 --> 00:56:09,599
So I think that's where you might get a clear, clearer,

1147
00:56:09,599 --> 00:56:13,610
brighter lines as opposed to, you know, areas where there

1148
00:56:13,610 --> 00:56:14,500
are open lots.

1149
00:56:14,500 --> 00:56:16,840
Where then you might say, ah, this can move over 100 feet

1150
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,940
or, you know, you could do, these two parcels could go more

1151
00:56:19,940 --> 00:56:24,489
commercial or more residential or, you know, in some cases

1152
00:56:24,489 --> 00:56:27,500
we designate an intersection and say,

1153
00:56:27,500 --> 00:56:30,469
we're going to put 50 acres of commercial here, well it's

1154
00:56:30,469 --> 00:56:33,230
cow pastures now, and it turns out that the commercial

1155
00:56:33,230 --> 00:56:35,500
developer wants the next intersection over.

1156
00:56:35,500 --> 00:56:38,210
And so we end up putting 50 acres of commercial there and

1157
00:56:38,210 --> 00:56:40,829
this 50 acres of commercial up here gets developed as

1158
00:56:40,829 --> 00:56:41,500
residential.

1159
00:56:41,500 --> 00:56:44,929
Because those are just kind of, those are plans on a map as

1160
00:56:44,929 --> 00:56:48,500
opposed to, you know, well developed expectations.

1161
00:56:48,500 --> 00:56:50,500
Yeah, I appreciate the insight.

1162
00:56:50,500 --> 00:56:51,500
Commissioner Rossell.

1163
00:56:51,500 --> 00:56:52,500
Thank you.

1164
00:56:52,500 --> 00:56:55,059
I appreciate the insight and I, clearly the lines are

1165
00:56:55,059 --> 00:56:57,699
evident, the lines break down is where their building

1166
00:56:57,699 --> 00:56:58,500
already is.

1167
00:56:58,500 --> 00:57:01,469
There's, so yes, there's a line at Westway, there's clearly

1168
00:57:01,469 --> 00:57:05,070
a line at Bolivar, but there's not a hard line through that

1169
00:57:05,070 --> 00:57:08,500
alley because it's interrupted by their current building.

1170
00:57:08,500 --> 00:57:12,500
And so, pardon me, I understand exactly what you're saying.

1171
00:57:12,500 --> 00:57:16,170
The, the, to me the biggest issue is rezoning them, selling

1172
00:57:16,170 --> 00:57:19,340
the property, and then we're out of control over that

1173
00:57:19,340 --> 00:57:20,500
development.

1174
00:57:20,500 --> 00:57:25,050
But to say there's, there's this hard line, I don't think

1175
00:57:25,050 --> 00:57:29,500
is a correct assertion because they already are there.

1176
00:57:29,500 --> 00:57:31,989
Like there's, there's not a hard line where it's pink and

1177
00:57:31,989 --> 00:57:35,710
yellow, there's kind of a hard line north of it, there's

1178
00:57:35,710 --> 00:57:38,500
kind of a hard line south of it, but not where they are.

1179
00:57:38,500 --> 00:57:40,889
And so I guess that's the internal struggle I have is, I

1180
00:57:40,889 --> 00:57:43,269
understand the long term, but I also understand it's been

1181
00:57:43,269 --> 00:57:46,500
there since the 80s, so those houses have been living this,

1182
00:57:46,500 --> 00:57:48,500
with us for 40 years.

1183
00:57:48,500 --> 00:57:52,730
And so it's not, to your point, we're not going into cow

1184
00:57:52,730 --> 00:57:56,070
pastures, granted, but we're also not, they're not going

1185
00:57:56,070 --> 00:57:57,500
and tearing down family homes.

1186
00:57:57,500 --> 00:58:00,929
They're, they're working on a building that's already been

1187
00:58:00,929 --> 00:58:04,500
in that neighborhood as a known quantity for 30 years.

1188
00:58:04,500 --> 00:58:06,929
And that was our struggle too, because the use has been

1189
00:58:06,929 --> 00:58:09,440
there and they're, you know, a good neighbor and we want

1190
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:11,809
them to develop and it really, it really was a struggle

1191
00:58:11,809 --> 00:58:13,500
that we had internally as well.

1192
00:58:13,500 --> 00:58:15,500
Sure, no, I understand it.

1193
00:58:15,500 --> 00:58:18,010
I'm going to throw one other thing before we close this

1194
00:58:18,010 --> 00:58:20,619
item and take a break, get food, and then we'll start on

1195
00:58:20,619 --> 00:58:21,500
razor ranch.

1196
00:58:21,500 --> 00:58:24,360
This is a thought just to throw out for commission to

1197
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:27,489
consider and maybe DSC to consider between our break and

1198
00:58:27,489 --> 00:58:28,500
when we meet.

1199
00:58:28,500 --> 00:58:33,539
I believe our board has a purview to zone down rather than

1200
00:58:33,539 --> 00:58:38,099
zone up, so we could take a look at the possibility of, on

1201
00:58:38,099 --> 00:58:42,500
the one tract, give them the DCN that they're looking for.

1202
00:58:42,500 --> 00:58:47,230
And on the track that is the NR3, we could do that as a DR2

1203
00:58:47,230 --> 00:58:52,170
, which gets them close to where they want to be for tonight

1204
00:58:52,170 --> 00:58:52,500
.

1205
00:58:52,500 --> 00:58:54,500
It may not be exactly where they would like to be.

1206
00:58:54,500 --> 00:58:57,739
And if they need to go from 75% to 80, they could look at a

1207
00:58:57,739 --> 00:58:58,500
variance.

1208
00:58:58,500 --> 00:59:02,190
But I think we have the purview to down zone versus up zone

1209
00:59:02,190 --> 00:59:02,500
.

1210
00:59:02,500 --> 00:59:04,539
And I don't know if that's something that staff has

1211
00:59:04,539 --> 00:59:06,690
discussed with the applicant or the applicant wants to

1212
00:59:06,690 --> 00:59:07,500
consider it.

1213
00:59:07,500 --> 00:59:10,679
Maybe the commission may or may not want to consider it,

1214
00:59:10,679 --> 00:59:13,780
but just as Chair, we'll throw that out as another option

1215
00:59:13,780 --> 00:59:17,550
we may be able to put before us tonight, depending on what

1216
00:59:17,550 --> 00:59:20,639
the applicant would like to consider based on where things

1217
00:59:20,639 --> 00:59:24,280
seem to be going so far tonight on kind of trying to get a

1218
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:25,500
consensus here.

1219
00:59:25,500 --> 00:59:29,500
So with that, Julie, thanks for your presentation on this.

1220
00:59:29,500 --> 00:59:33,730
And I'm going to call a recess in our work session at 6 o'

1221
00:59:33,730 --> 00:59:34,500
clock.

1222
00:59:34,500 --> 00:59:36,929
We'll take a quick break and get some food and try to come

1223
00:59:36,929 --> 00:59:37,500
back in.

1224
00:59:37,500 --> 00:59:39,949
I think our next item is going to be at least 20, 30

1225
00:59:39,949 --> 00:59:40,500
minutes.

1226
00:59:40,500 --> 00:59:46,500
So we're going to kind of start running.

1227
00:59:46,500 --> 00:59:47,500
Thank you.

1228
00:59:47,500 --> 00:59:50,500
We're going to reconvene our work session at 6 o'clock.

1229
00:59:50,500 --> 00:59:54,010
I believe the next item on our agenda to receive

1230
00:59:54,010 --> 00:59:58,260
clarification on is going to be in the public hearing for

1231
00:59:58,260 --> 00:59:59,500
razor ranch.

1232
00:59:59,500 --> 01:00:03,500
Mike Bell.

1233
01:00:03,500 --> 01:00:04,500
Thank you, Chair.

1234
01:00:04,500 --> 01:00:06,500
This project is the 1613.

1235
01:00:06,500 --> 01:00:11,500
It's the razor ranch zoning plan.

1236
01:00:11,500 --> 01:00:14,340
The request before you tonight will be to consider an

1237
01:00:14,340 --> 01:00:17,670
amendment to the razor ranch overlay district to reclassify

1238
01:00:17,670 --> 01:00:20,900
approximately 10 acres from a south mixed use sub area to

1239
01:00:20,900 --> 01:00:23,500
the south or to separate and I'll get into that.

1240
01:00:23,500 --> 01:00:26,500
I do want to clarify 10 acres is an overstatement.

1241
01:00:26,500 --> 01:00:28,500
This is changing an exhibit.

1242
01:00:28,500 --> 01:00:29,500
It's not a meets and bounds description.

1243
01:00:29,500 --> 01:00:32,079
So it's actually probably more like four or five, but we

1244
01:00:32,079 --> 01:00:36,500
just want to overestimate for notification purposes.

1245
01:00:36,500 --> 01:00:40,070
What this would entail is an amendment to two exhibits of

1246
01:00:40,070 --> 01:00:43,480
the district with the exhibit B1, which is the concept

1247
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:46,500
schematic plan and before, which is the zoning overlay.

1248
01:00:46,500 --> 01:00:51,500
We provided both of those in your backup.

1249
01:00:51,500 --> 01:00:53,800
We do have some new members since last time a razor ranch

1250
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:54,500
item came up.

1251
01:00:54,500 --> 01:00:57,949
So I want to give a brief kind of overview, very general

1252
01:00:57,949 --> 01:01:01,880
overview what razor ranch district is the overlay itself

1253
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:06,500
includes 410 acres highlighted in the area in yellow.

1254
01:01:06,500 --> 01:01:10,739
It's as we all know, it's on 380 between Bonnie Bray and I

1255
01:01:10,739 --> 01:01:11,500
35.

1256
01:01:11,500 --> 01:01:14,500
The district itself was originally improved in 2007.

1257
01:01:14,500 --> 01:01:18,030
And since then, there have been a number of amendments that

1258
01:01:18,030 --> 01:01:22,500
the two two big ones, in my opinion, in 2008 and 2010.

1259
01:01:22,500 --> 01:01:26,760
When we're working with now is essentially the 2010 version

1260
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:30,050
of the ordinance with some modifications that we made

1261
01:01:30,050 --> 01:01:31,500
earlier this year.

1262
01:01:31,500 --> 01:01:35,170
The overlay district contains three major components that

1263
01:01:35,170 --> 01:01:38,579
are specific to this area, one being zoning restrictions

1264
01:01:38,579 --> 01:01:41,500
and we limit some of the uses in this area.

1265
01:01:41,500 --> 01:01:43,670
Then there's the map, which is the exhibits that we're

1266
01:01:43,670 --> 01:01:44,500
talking about.

1267
01:01:44,500 --> 01:01:47,760
It also has specific site design criteria in terms of

1268
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:50,500
architecture, landscape and signage.

1269
01:01:50,500 --> 01:01:52,500
And then there's a special process for site plans.

1270
01:01:52,500 --> 01:01:57,510
So what y'all do see site plans for razor ranch when they

1271
01:01:57,510 --> 01:02:02,539
come in, you know, they'll see one at the next meeting

1272
01:02:02,539 --> 01:02:03,500
actually.

1273
01:02:03,500 --> 01:02:05,889
And then I want to give kind of a breakdown of how razor

1274
01:02:05,889 --> 01:02:08,449
ranch has broken up in terms of zoning and in terms of site

1275
01:02:08,449 --> 01:02:10,500
design because they're a little unique.

1276
01:02:10,500 --> 01:02:13,500
There are two major areas in razor ranch.

1277
01:02:13,500 --> 01:02:16,500
There's the marketplace on the north side of 380.

1278
01:02:16,500 --> 01:02:20,500
It's called the south campus on the south side of 380. I do

1279
01:02:20,500 --> 01:02:20,500
want to call this out.

1280
01:02:20,500 --> 01:02:23,500
This is the 10 acres, the five acres we're talking about.

1281
01:02:23,500 --> 01:02:26,000
I want to keep it in context of our conversation here so

1282
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:28,500
you know where it is in terms of these boundaries.

1283
01:02:28,500 --> 01:02:32,030
But it's this double black line is the subject property we

1284
01:02:32,030 --> 01:02:33,500
'll be talking about.

1285
01:02:33,500 --> 01:02:37,500
It should stay there as I move through the slides.

1286
01:02:37,500 --> 01:02:41,449
Within the marketplace on the north side, there are three

1287
01:02:41,449 --> 01:02:43,500
areas that are R2 and R3.

1288
01:02:43,500 --> 01:02:47,079
And there's a residential area north of where the Sands and

1289
01:02:47,079 --> 01:02:50,500
Academy between that row of buildings.

1290
01:02:50,500 --> 01:02:53,280
On the south side, it's divided into five or six categories

1291
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:53,500
.

1292
01:02:53,500 --> 01:02:57,500
RR1 is the town center, the formal town center.

1293
01:02:57,500 --> 01:03:01,829
RR2 is the pad sites along 380 and I-35 where you see the

1294
01:03:01,829 --> 01:03:06,500
chiles, the multi-tenant building, the raising canes.

1295
01:03:06,500 --> 01:03:10,920
Then the south mixed use district is everything kind of

1296
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:14,610
roughly east of Heritage Trail and then between that and

1297
01:03:14,610 --> 01:03:15,500
the town center.

1298
01:03:15,500 --> 01:03:19,170
Then there are three kind of outlying areas, the substation

1299
01:03:19,170 --> 01:03:24,900
, the gas fill pad, and Cooke Children's have their own

1300
01:03:24,900 --> 01:03:27,500
specific regulations.

1301
01:03:27,500 --> 01:03:32,500
So that's the zoning and that's the uses, the regulations.

1302
01:03:32,500 --> 01:03:35,400
But then there's also some design standards categories that

1303
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,500
group some of these districts together.

1304
01:03:37,500 --> 01:03:41,099
So for the marketplace, the entire marketplace follows

1305
01:03:41,099 --> 01:03:42,500
exhibits C, D, and E.

1306
01:03:42,500 --> 01:03:45,500
C being architecture, D being landscape, E being signage.

1307
01:03:45,500 --> 01:03:49,500
And then the residential north of the Sands to Academy,

1308
01:03:49,500 --> 01:03:54,260
those standards haven't been approved yet, but they will be

1309
01:03:54,260 --> 01:03:57,500
in C, D, and E.

1310
01:03:57,500 --> 01:04:01,269
The second major section of design standards is the town

1311
01:04:01,269 --> 01:04:04,500
center and the south RR2 in this area here.

1312
01:04:04,500 --> 01:04:07,500
Those follow exhibits C1, D1, and E1.

1313
01:04:07,500 --> 01:04:11,500
Those are part of the ordinance today.

1314
01:04:11,500 --> 01:04:14,500
And then there's the south mixed use district.

1315
01:04:14,500 --> 01:04:18,500
And those have exhibits C2, C3, D2, and E2.

1316
01:04:18,500 --> 01:04:21,880
And those C2, D2, and E2 have not been approved at this

1317
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:22,500
point.

1318
01:04:22,500 --> 01:04:24,750
It's always been the intent that as Razor gets to this

1319
01:04:24,750 --> 01:04:27,000
phase of development, they'll come in and write those

1320
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:29,500
standards before any development occurs on the site.

1321
01:04:29,500 --> 01:04:34,900
And then there's also C3, which is specific to multifamily,

1322
01:04:34,900 --> 01:04:38,500
and we'll get into that in the next item.

1323
01:04:38,500 --> 01:04:41,150
So getting into specifics of this request, what they would

1324
01:04:41,150 --> 01:04:43,500
like to do, on the left you see the existing map.

1325
01:04:43,500 --> 01:04:47,500
It's part of that south mixed use district on I-35.

1326
01:04:47,500 --> 01:04:51,500
This is where Panhandle will be.

1327
01:04:51,500 --> 01:04:54,500
They would like to change that into the south RR2 district.

1328
01:04:54,500 --> 01:04:59,050
So the same as the Basing Canes, the Wynn Code, the multi-

1329
01:04:59,050 --> 01:05:03,500
tenant buildings that you're seeing go up right now.

1330
01:05:03,500 --> 01:05:05,500
And what does that mean? What are the changes that happen?

1331
01:05:05,500 --> 01:05:07,960
Well, these are the uses that are permitted in both

1332
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:10,500
districts, and they're entirely commercial.

1333
01:05:10,500 --> 01:05:13,300
What you'd expect, hotel, retail, restaurants, movie

1334
01:05:13,300 --> 01:05:14,500
theaters, offices.

1335
01:05:14,500 --> 01:05:18,570
Those are all permitted in both districts, the existing and

1336
01:05:18,570 --> 01:05:19,500
proposed.

1337
01:05:19,500 --> 01:05:21,730
What's different is in the existing district, there are

1338
01:05:21,730 --> 01:05:23,500
some residential uses that are allowed.

1339
01:05:23,500 --> 01:05:27,500
Town homes, multifamily dwellings, single-family dwellings.

1340
01:05:27,500 --> 01:05:30,599
That if this request were approved, those residential uses

1341
01:05:30,599 --> 01:05:31,500
would go away.

1342
01:05:31,500 --> 01:05:34,500
They would no longer be permitted.

1343
01:05:34,500 --> 01:05:38,030
In terms of the general regulations, they're basically the

1344
01:05:38,030 --> 01:05:38,500
same.

1345
01:05:38,500 --> 01:05:41,599
The south mixed use has some additional requirements for

1346
01:05:41,599 --> 01:05:42,500
single-family.

1347
01:05:42,500 --> 01:05:44,840
Because single-family is not allowed in the proposed use,

1348
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:46,500
they're not present on the right side.

1349
01:05:46,500 --> 01:05:50,500
They're roughly the same for both districts.

1350
01:05:50,500 --> 01:05:53,210
And then where we get to the difference, the big difference

1351
01:05:53,210 --> 01:05:55,500
and why, the primary reason they're here tonight,

1352
01:05:55,500 --> 01:05:57,539
is that the current zoning does not have the design

1353
01:05:57,539 --> 01:05:58,500
standards approved.

1354
01:05:58,500 --> 01:06:00,500
C2, D2, and E2.

1355
01:06:00,500 --> 01:06:03,500
Those are always intended to be inserted later.

1356
01:06:03,500 --> 01:06:05,969
The district they're going to would then follow standards

1357
01:06:05,969 --> 01:06:09,500
that have already been approved, the C1, D1, and E1.

1358
01:06:09,500 --> 01:06:12,929
So really their request is to, they have a retail use in

1359
01:06:12,929 --> 01:06:13,500
mind.

1360
01:06:13,500 --> 01:06:15,500
The retail use is permitted in both districts.

1361
01:06:15,500 --> 01:06:18,460
They want to go ahead and follow the design standards that

1362
01:06:18,460 --> 01:06:21,500
have already been approved for 380 and 35.

1363
01:06:21,500 --> 01:06:22,500
And what does that look like?

1364
01:06:22,500 --> 01:06:24,610
Some of the new members just want to show some of the

1365
01:06:24,610 --> 01:06:27,500
recent elevations to give you an idea of what those

1366
01:06:27,500 --> 01:06:30,500
architectural standards require.

1367
01:06:30,500 --> 01:06:32,969
And so you see there's kind of a generally consistent theme

1368
01:06:32,969 --> 01:06:34,500
in terms of materials and color.

1369
01:06:34,500 --> 01:06:39,320
That would be the requirement for this site, should it be

1370
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:40,500
approved.

1371
01:06:40,500 --> 01:06:43,389
And again, what it really boils down to is this change is

1372
01:06:43,389 --> 01:06:44,500
two major things.

1373
01:06:44,500 --> 01:06:45,889
One is the day it's a residential uses and it changes the

1374
01:06:45,889 --> 01:06:46,500
design standards.

1375
01:06:46,500 --> 01:06:48,500
That's really what it boils down to.

1376
01:06:48,500 --> 01:06:51,679
And realistically, residential is probably not ideal along

1377
01:06:51,679 --> 01:06:52,500
I-35 anyway.

1378
01:06:52,500 --> 01:06:55,599
So we don't see that loss as being detrimental to the

1379
01:06:55,599 --> 01:06:57,500
integrity of the district.

1380
01:06:57,500 --> 01:06:59,900
And ultimately we don't foresee the eventual design

1381
01:06:59,900 --> 01:07:02,500
standards in C2, D2, and E2 being,

1382
01:07:02,500 --> 01:07:04,619
for non-residential being all that different from what's

1383
01:07:04,619 --> 01:07:05,500
already approved.

1384
01:07:05,500 --> 01:07:08,010
What will be different in C2, D2, and E2 are those design

1385
01:07:08,010 --> 01:07:10,670
standards for the single family, the multi-family, townh

1386
01:07:10,670 --> 01:07:11,500
omes, things like that.

1387
01:07:11,500 --> 01:07:13,550
So in terms of design, probably not going to be too

1388
01:07:13,550 --> 01:07:14,500
different anyway.

1389
01:07:14,500 --> 01:07:18,500
We did send out a notification.

1390
01:07:18,500 --> 01:07:20,500
We didn't receive any replies.

1391
01:07:20,500 --> 01:07:22,619
I did get a number of phone calls, but nobody wanted to

1392
01:07:22,619 --> 01:07:23,500
return a notice.

1393
01:07:23,500 --> 01:07:27,500
And we will be recommending approval.

1394
01:07:27,500 --> 01:07:29,260
So with that, I'll stand for any questions that you may

1395
01:07:29,260 --> 01:07:29,500
have.

1396
01:07:29,500 --> 01:07:31,500
Commissioner Rosell.

1397
01:07:31,500 --> 01:07:33,500
You said you did get phone calls?

1398
01:07:33,500 --> 01:07:34,500
Yes.

1399
01:07:34,500 --> 01:07:35,500
What were the phone calls?

1400
01:07:35,500 --> 01:07:37,019
It was most of the businesses around wanting to know what

1401
01:07:37,019 --> 01:07:37,500
was going on.

1402
01:07:37,500 --> 01:07:41,500
Okay. There wasn't any residents and outcry or anything

1403
01:07:41,500 --> 01:07:41,500
like that?

1404
01:07:41,500 --> 01:07:43,500
No.

1405
01:07:43,500 --> 01:07:44,500
Commissioner Ellis.

1406
01:07:44,500 --> 01:07:46,500
Thank you, Chair.

1407
01:07:46,500 --> 01:07:48,750
On that note, I think it's because in the buffer region for

1408
01:07:48,750 --> 01:07:52,500
notifications, there aren't any single family homes.

1409
01:07:52,500 --> 01:07:55,500
Question for you.

1410
01:07:55,500 --> 01:07:58,500
Is this just to begin development?

1411
01:07:58,500 --> 01:08:01,199
Is that why they want to do this, just so they can begin

1412
01:08:01,199 --> 01:08:02,500
development sooner?

1413
01:08:02,500 --> 01:08:05,389
Yes. There's a user in mind and they have a site plan in,

1414
01:08:05,389 --> 01:08:06,500
they're ready to build.

1415
01:08:06,500 --> 01:08:09,079
But to do that, under the current zoning, they have to get

1416
01:08:09,079 --> 01:08:11,500
those standards approved, those design steps.

1417
01:08:11,500 --> 01:08:13,420
And they're not ready to do that just yet for the entire

1418
01:08:13,420 --> 01:08:14,500
south mixed use district.

1419
01:08:14,500 --> 01:08:16,500
Okay. We're just not ready to do that yet.

1420
01:08:16,500 --> 01:08:19,500
So by doing this, this allows that development to begin.

1421
01:08:19,500 --> 01:08:20,500
Correct.

1422
01:08:20,500 --> 01:08:21,500
And it's 10 acres.

1423
01:08:21,500 --> 01:08:24,600
It's, like we overestimated, it's probably more like four

1424
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:25,500
or five acres.

1425
01:08:25,500 --> 01:08:27,500
Four or five acres, is all?

1426
01:08:27,500 --> 01:08:30,500
We don't have a legal description of this boundary.

1427
01:08:30,500 --> 01:08:32,260
Typically in a zoning case, we would get a legal

1428
01:08:32,260 --> 01:08:33,500
description and it's set in place.

1429
01:08:33,500 --> 01:08:35,899
But because all this is is changing an exhibit and an

1430
01:08:35,899 --> 01:08:37,500
ordinance, just one little map,

1431
01:08:37,500 --> 01:08:40,500
we didn't have them go out and survey the exact site.

1432
01:08:40,500 --> 01:08:41,500
Okay.

1433
01:08:41,500 --> 01:08:43,260
But for public notification requirements, if we under

1434
01:08:43,260 --> 01:08:45,500
notice, there are legal implications of that.

1435
01:08:45,500 --> 01:08:47,500
So it's less than 10 acres.

1436
01:08:47,500 --> 01:08:49,500
So we went ahead and went over it just to be safe.

1437
01:08:49,500 --> 01:08:51,500
Okay. Understood. Thank you.

1438
01:08:51,500 --> 01:08:54,500
Commissioner Sullivan.

1439
01:08:54,500 --> 01:08:57,090
Trying to get some background on the Razor Ranch, I found

1440
01:08:57,090 --> 01:09:01,579
that there's been a lot of issues regarding changes that

1441
01:09:01,579 --> 01:09:02,500
are always being made.

1442
01:09:02,500 --> 01:09:09,840
And my concern is that in the original plan that Razor

1443
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:14,699
Ranch people got tax incentives, rebates, abatements, and

1444
01:09:14,699 --> 01:09:15,500
all kinds of things,

1445
01:09:15,500 --> 01:09:18,939
how does the changing from non-residential or from

1446
01:09:18,939 --> 01:09:22,979
residential to non-residential, how does that affect any of

1447
01:09:22,979 --> 01:09:23,500
that?

1448
01:09:23,500 --> 01:09:26,500
It shouldn't affect it at all in terms of the tax state.

1449
01:09:26,500 --> 01:09:28,789
And the applicant can speak to that probably more clearly

1450
01:09:28,789 --> 01:09:29,500
than I could.

1451
01:09:29,500 --> 01:09:31,500
But my understanding is it does not affect any of that.

1452
01:09:31,500 --> 01:09:35,500
It's just the design standards and the use is permitted.

1453
01:09:35,500 --> 01:09:38,020
Well, but when you have residential, you have property

1454
01:09:38,020 --> 01:09:38,500
taxes.

1455
01:09:38,500 --> 01:09:41,850
And if it goes to commercial, are they still going to get

1456
01:09:41,850 --> 01:09:45,500
the same tax treatment as the other parts of Razor Ranch?

1457
01:09:45,500 --> 01:09:48,500
Forgive me. I'm really not an expert on the tax level.

1458
01:09:48,500 --> 01:09:49,500
Okay. That's fine.

1459
01:09:49,500 --> 01:09:50,500
I think the applicant could probably answer that question.

1460
01:09:50,500 --> 01:09:52,500
That's fine. Okay. Thank you.

1461
01:09:52,500 --> 01:09:53,500
Well, I'll chime in.

1462
01:09:53,500 --> 01:09:55,970
You'll still get your property tax on the commercial, but

1463
01:09:55,970 --> 01:10:00,159
you should also get sales tax that you wouldn't receive in

1464
01:10:00,159 --> 01:10:00,500
a residential.

1465
01:10:00,500 --> 01:10:03,500
Application and I agree with you.

1466
01:10:03,500 --> 01:10:07,319
I don't know that residential was ever a great use there

1467
01:10:07,319 --> 01:10:08,500
along I-35.

1468
01:10:08,500 --> 01:10:11,060
And I think certainly now with the convention center in

1469
01:10:11,060 --> 01:10:13,500
there, I think it makes a whole lot more sense to have

1470
01:10:13,500 --> 01:10:16,699
commercial out in front of that to serve and support that

1471
01:10:16,699 --> 01:10:20,090
convention center than some type of residential stuck out

1472
01:10:20,090 --> 01:10:21,500
there along 35.

1473
01:10:21,500 --> 01:10:23,500
So I think it's a good idea.

1474
01:10:23,500 --> 01:10:26,699
And I like seeing the consistency of the standards that we

1475
01:10:26,699 --> 01:10:29,770
already have in place and eliminate some of that mix and

1476
01:10:29,770 --> 01:10:32,760
match that's been before our commission before about

1477
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:36,500
different colors and all those kinds of discussion.

1478
01:10:36,500 --> 01:10:38,500
So I think it's a good idea.

1479
01:10:38,500 --> 01:10:39,500
Let me ask you this.

1480
01:10:39,500 --> 01:10:40,500
Mr. Sullivan.

1481
01:10:40,500 --> 01:10:45,850
The, now what is the, I guess the difference between the

1482
01:10:45,850 --> 01:10:51,500
tax incentives for sales taxes versus property taxes?

1483
01:10:51,500 --> 01:10:54,680
My understanding is that there would be no incentive

1484
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:56,970
necessarily from a property standpoint, property tax

1485
01:10:56,970 --> 01:11:01,170
standpoint, since the owner pays that and not raise a ranch

1486
01:11:01,170 --> 01:11:01,500
.

1487
01:11:01,500 --> 01:11:04,949
Whereas if you have sales taxes, then that's where their

1488
01:11:04,949 --> 01:11:08,550
reimbursements, abatements, or what have you would come

1489
01:11:08,550 --> 01:11:09,500
into play.

1490
01:11:09,500 --> 01:11:13,500
And there are residential along 35 just south of there.

1491
01:11:13,500 --> 01:11:17,020
I'm not sure that that's a legitimate concern just because

1492
01:11:17,020 --> 01:11:20,289
there are already town homes and apartments not too far

1493
01:11:20,289 --> 01:11:21,500
into the south.

1494
01:11:21,500 --> 01:11:24,539
Well, I wasn't into specifics of, I guess maybe what your

1495
01:11:24,539 --> 01:11:27,670
question, I was just making a general statement that they

1496
01:11:27,670 --> 01:11:29,500
both will pay property taxes.

1497
01:11:29,500 --> 01:11:31,500
A residential won't pay a sales tax.

1498
01:11:31,500 --> 01:11:33,909
There won't be commerce going on there and there won't be

1499
01:11:33,909 --> 01:11:35,500
sales taxes taking place there.

1500
01:11:35,500 --> 01:11:38,109
In a commercial setting, if it's another fast food

1501
01:11:38,109 --> 01:11:41,119
restaurant, there'll be sales tax there that would come to

1502
01:11:41,119 --> 01:11:44,369
the city that would not come there if it was, to your point

1503
01:11:44,369 --> 01:11:45,500
, a town home.

1504
01:11:45,500 --> 01:11:47,500
There will be no sales tax collected there.

1505
01:11:47,500 --> 01:11:48,500
That was my statement.

1506
01:11:48,500 --> 01:11:51,500
That may not be the point you were asking.

1507
01:11:51,500 --> 01:11:58,579
Well, I guess my concern was where would the city gain more

1508
01:11:58,579 --> 01:12:05,229
tax revenue from residential or after the rebates or

1509
01:12:05,229 --> 01:12:10,500
reimbursements or whatever, how the incentives are set up.

1510
01:12:10,500 --> 01:12:12,500
Or would it come from sales taxes?

1511
01:12:12,500 --> 01:12:15,939
And that's what I'm, I guess I'm wondering what's the

1512
01:12:15,939 --> 01:12:19,779
overall benefit to the city by changing it from residential

1513
01:12:19,779 --> 01:12:21,500
to non-residential.

1514
01:12:21,500 --> 01:12:24,500
This isn't what you're, give me one second.

1515
01:12:24,500 --> 01:12:27,220
This probably isn't exactly what you're getting at, but I

1516
01:12:27,220 --> 01:12:29,939
do want to make it clear that commercial is permitted there

1517
01:12:29,939 --> 01:12:30,500
today.

1518
01:12:30,500 --> 01:12:31,500
They could do retail.

1519
01:12:31,500 --> 01:12:32,500
Both of them are permitted.

1520
01:12:32,500 --> 01:12:35,500
They're only removing the ability to do residential.

1521
01:12:35,500 --> 01:12:38,029
So in terms of what they could have done before and after,

1522
01:12:38,029 --> 01:12:39,500
it's essentially the same.

1523
01:12:39,500 --> 01:12:42,500
It's just the design standards.

1524
01:12:42,500 --> 01:12:44,500
OK, so residential was not required.

1525
01:12:44,500 --> 01:12:45,500
It was just an option.

1526
01:12:45,500 --> 01:12:46,500
That's what I was going to say.

1527
01:12:46,500 --> 01:12:47,500
Gotcha.

1528
01:12:47,500 --> 01:12:50,500
Thank you for the clarification.

1529
01:12:50,500 --> 01:12:55,500
Other questions?

1530
01:12:55,500 --> 01:12:57,500
Great.

1531
01:12:57,500 --> 01:13:01,500
We have the next item, which is also Rage Ranch.

1532
01:13:01,500 --> 01:13:03,500
Mike Bell.

1533
01:13:03,500 --> 01:13:04,500
All right.

1534
01:13:04,500 --> 01:13:05,500
This is Z1622.

1535
01:13:05,500 --> 01:13:09,500
This is the Rage Ranch multifamily standards.

1536
01:13:09,500 --> 01:13:11,500
I do have a long version and a short version.

1537
01:13:11,500 --> 01:13:14,500
I'll leave it up to you which one you want to hear.

1538
01:13:14,500 --> 01:13:17,930
But essentially it's a request to amend the exhibit C3 that

1539
01:13:17,930 --> 01:13:21,130
we talked about in the last presentation, the multifamily

1540
01:13:21,130 --> 01:13:25,500
standards that are specific to the south mixed use area.

1541
01:13:25,500 --> 01:13:32,500
And it would amend that exhibit C3, B3, excuse me.

1542
01:13:32,500 --> 01:13:35,500
I'm sorry, that's a mistake.

1543
01:13:35,500 --> 01:13:37,500
It's C3, yes, as it is here.

1544
01:13:37,500 --> 01:13:39,500
C3.

1545
01:13:39,500 --> 01:13:42,279
So multifamily, this is the only area multifamily is

1546
01:13:42,279 --> 01:13:44,500
permitted in the south mixed use area.

1547
01:13:44,500 --> 01:13:51,500
So these standards are specific to this area.

1548
01:13:51,500 --> 01:13:53,039
Just to give you an idea of how these standards were

1549
01:13:53,039 --> 01:13:55,500
developed, these are the Afghans proposed standards.

1550
01:13:55,500 --> 01:13:59,029
But what we did recommend is they use subchapter 13, which

1551
01:13:59,029 --> 01:14:02,500
is our citywide standards as a baseline and go from there.

1552
01:14:02,500 --> 01:14:05,220
And so in your backup, I have provided kind of a comparison

1553
01:14:05,220 --> 01:14:07,960
chart between the citywide standards and how they compare

1554
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:09,500
to the proposed standards.

1555
01:14:09,500 --> 01:14:12,310
But generally it's all the same sections that you would see

1556
01:14:12,310 --> 01:14:15,489
in any other site design criteria manual, the site design

1557
01:14:15,489 --> 01:14:18,619
orientation, architecture, and regulations, landscaping,

1558
01:14:18,619 --> 01:14:21,390
lighting, open space, all the stuff you're typically used

1559
01:14:21,390 --> 01:14:24,500
to seeing in a zoning regulation, site design regulation.

1560
01:14:24,500 --> 01:14:27,000
And with that, I will leave it up to you whether you want

1561
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:28,500
me to go through these or not.

1562
01:14:28,500 --> 01:14:30,909
If you have questions, otherwise I can jump to it at the

1563
01:14:30,909 --> 01:14:31,500
very end.

1564
01:14:31,500 --> 01:14:33,560
There's kind of a real world example of what we have an

1565
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:35,500
application in that meets these standards.

1566
01:14:35,500 --> 01:14:37,500
And I can show you what that would look like.

1567
01:14:37,500 --> 01:14:38,500
Won't you please do that?

1568
01:14:38,500 --> 01:14:40,500
And if we have some questions, we can come back.

1569
01:14:40,500 --> 01:14:45,039
As you'll see, it's pretty wordy as they go through the

1570
01:14:45,039 --> 01:14:46,500
long version.

1571
01:14:46,500 --> 01:14:50,500
OK, so this is the site plan application we have in now.

1572
01:14:50,500 --> 01:14:53,539
It will be coming before you at the next meeting should

1573
01:14:53,539 --> 01:14:55,500
these standards be approved.

1574
01:14:55,500 --> 01:14:58,500
And essentially what it is is a multifamily development.

1575
01:14:58,500 --> 01:15:00,500
This would be, north would be to your left.

1576
01:15:00,500 --> 01:15:03,500
The WNCO is right here.

1577
01:15:03,500 --> 01:15:04,500
This is Heritage Trail.

1578
01:15:04,500 --> 01:15:07,500
It's a arterial roadway.

1579
01:15:07,500 --> 01:15:10,840
And it requires the buildings be set up to the front of the

1580
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:14,350
street, just like we normally require for citywide

1581
01:15:14,350 --> 01:15:15,500
development.

1582
01:15:15,500 --> 01:15:18,869
One of the exceptions, though, is it doesn't require it

1583
01:15:18,869 --> 01:15:20,500
along private streets.

1584
01:15:20,500 --> 01:15:23,680
Again, if you looked at a master plan of Razor Ranch, this

1585
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:26,500
is all just a big parking field, primarily anyway.

1586
01:15:26,500 --> 01:15:31,840
But we did want to encourage the building to be set up

1587
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:34,500
along public streets.

1588
01:15:34,500 --> 01:15:37,500
I'm missing a slide here.

1589
01:15:37,500 --> 01:15:41,060
And then in terms of elevations and color materials, it's

1590
01:15:41,060 --> 01:15:44,409
pretty similar to what you've seen in the other parts of

1591
01:15:44,409 --> 01:15:45,500
Razor Ranch.

1592
01:15:45,500 --> 01:15:48,710
However, we did not, the applicant did not wish to include

1593
01:15:48,710 --> 01:15:52,579
like a pallet or building material samples specifically for

1594
01:15:52,579 --> 01:15:54,500
multifamily development.

1595
01:15:54,500 --> 01:15:58,029
So those are different from what you're used to seeing in

1596
01:15:58,029 --> 01:15:59,500
the other exhibits.

1597
01:15:59,500 --> 01:16:02,500
But we did specify the materials that they could use.

1598
01:16:02,500 --> 01:16:06,670
So it does narrow it down a bit more than the citywide

1599
01:16:06,670 --> 01:16:10,500
standards in terms of building materials.

1600
01:16:10,500 --> 01:16:11,500
Commissioner Beck.

1601
01:16:11,500 --> 01:16:12,500
Thank you, Chair.

1602
01:16:12,500 --> 01:16:14,500
Go back one, Mike.

1603
01:16:14,500 --> 01:16:16,500
Yeah, right there.

1604
01:16:16,500 --> 01:16:19,500
It seems clear what are the apartment buildings.

1605
01:16:19,500 --> 01:16:21,500
What are the little cube areas around?

1606
01:16:21,500 --> 01:16:23,500
Are those apartments, too, or townhomes?

1607
01:16:23,500 --> 01:16:25,500
These are garages.

1608
01:16:25,500 --> 01:16:27,500
OK, OK, great.

1609
01:16:27,500 --> 01:16:29,500
And we require them to match the building.

1610
01:16:29,500 --> 01:16:31,899
They have high masonry standards and building materials

1611
01:16:31,899 --> 01:16:32,500
standards.

1612
01:16:32,500 --> 01:16:34,500
They're not allowed to be out in front of the buildings.

1613
01:16:34,500 --> 01:16:36,500
They have to be at the side or the rear.

1614
01:16:36,500 --> 01:16:38,500
That's what you're typically used to seeing.

1615
01:16:38,500 --> 01:16:42,199
And I did, again, I want to stress that I outlined all this

1616
01:16:42,199 --> 01:16:42,500
.

1617
01:16:42,500 --> 01:16:43,500
Again, that's very wordy, too.

1618
01:16:43,500 --> 01:16:46,500
So I'm happy to hit the highlights if you wish.

1619
01:16:46,500 --> 01:16:51,500
But it is more strict than our citywide requirements.

1620
01:16:51,500 --> 01:16:54,500
Commissioner Taylor.

1621
01:16:54,500 --> 01:16:56,500
Thank you, Chair.

1622
01:16:56,500 --> 01:17:00,500
So this is an update to C3.

1623
01:17:00,500 --> 01:17:06,500
Can they build if we don't have D2 and E2 defined?

1624
01:17:06,500 --> 01:17:07,500
Yes.

1625
01:17:07,500 --> 01:17:09,500
No landscape standards?

1626
01:17:09,500 --> 01:17:10,500
Yes.

1627
01:17:10,500 --> 01:17:13,819
The C2, D2, and E2 will be for the non-residential and the

1628
01:17:13,819 --> 01:17:14,500
single family components.

1629
01:17:14,500 --> 01:17:18,020
The ordinance specifically calls out that multifamily shall

1630
01:17:18,020 --> 01:17:19,500
follow Exhibit C3.

1631
01:17:19,500 --> 01:17:22,500
So everything else is subject to C2, D2, and E2.

1632
01:17:22,500 --> 01:17:28,500
So C3 is completely inclusive of landscape and everything?

1633
01:17:28,500 --> 01:17:29,500
Absolutely.

1634
01:17:29,500 --> 01:17:30,500
Okay.

1635
01:17:30,500 --> 01:17:31,500
I understand.

1636
01:17:31,500 --> 01:17:34,020
I was curious about that when I just saw that one of three

1637
01:17:34,020 --> 01:17:35,500
standards being approved.

1638
01:17:35,500 --> 01:17:39,609
And this also, the material requirements, they match the

1639
01:17:39,609 --> 01:17:43,729
material requirements, material and color requirements of

1640
01:17:43,729 --> 01:17:46,500
the rest of Southside Razor Ranch?

1641
01:17:46,500 --> 01:17:50,770
No, there are no pallet approved like you've seen with the

1642
01:17:50,770 --> 01:17:52,500
non-residential.

1643
01:17:52,500 --> 01:17:55,989
So the, what you see on 380 being built has a color pallet

1644
01:17:55,989 --> 01:17:58,500
associated with it and material pallet.

1645
01:17:58,500 --> 01:18:01,500
This does not have that, but we are requiring 40% masonry.

1646
01:18:01,500 --> 01:18:05,390
Everything else, we're capping secondary materials to 30%

1647
01:18:05,390 --> 01:18:09,500
each so you're not going to have 40% MESO and 30% stucco.

1648
01:18:09,500 --> 01:18:11,500
It'll be primarily masonry.

1649
01:18:11,500 --> 01:18:14,489
And we've limited the materials to specific materials that

1650
01:18:14,489 --> 01:18:15,500
we'd like to see.

1651
01:18:15,500 --> 01:18:20,329
Not color, not a specific brand of stone, but we would say

1652
01:18:20,329 --> 01:18:22,500
stone, for instance.

1653
01:18:22,500 --> 01:18:28,500
Thank you.

1654
01:18:28,500 --> 01:18:31,500
Anybody else?

1655
01:18:31,500 --> 01:18:32,500
Thank you, Mike.

1656
01:18:32,500 --> 01:18:33,500
Short version it is.

1657
01:18:33,500 --> 01:18:39,500
Yep, short version.

1658
01:18:39,500 --> 01:18:46,500
And with that, let's see, back here to the front.

1659
01:18:46,500 --> 01:18:49,500
That is all the items we have on our work session agenda

1660
01:18:49,500 --> 01:18:50,500
this evening.

1661
01:18:50,500 --> 01:18:53,500
So I'm going to close our work session at 625.

1662
01:18:53,500 --> 01:19:11,079
And if we can hurry, we can try to reconvene on time at 630

1663
01:19:11,079 --> 01:19:15,500
if possible.

1664
01:19:15,500 --> 01:19:18,170
Good evening and welcome to the City of Bend Planning and Z

1665
01:19:18,170 --> 01:19:21,500
oning Commission meeting for September the 28th.

1666
01:19:21,500 --> 01:19:25,560
We have a quorum present and our meeting has been duly

1667
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:26,500
posted.

1668
01:19:26,500 --> 01:19:29,500
And I'm going to call our meeting to order at 635.

1669
01:19:29,500 --> 01:19:31,569
Our first order of business will be to stand and give the

1670
01:19:31,569 --> 01:19:37,500
pledge to the U.S. and Texas flag.

1671
01:19:37,500 --> 01:19:52,500
And to the flag of the United States of America.

1672
01:19:52,500 --> 01:19:56,800
Honorable Texas, Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the

1673
01:19:56,800 --> 01:20:12,500
Texas, Texas, Washington, and under God, one, indivisible.

1674
01:20:12,500 --> 01:20:16,420
Just as a point of order, we will not have a minutes for

1675
01:20:16,420 --> 01:20:18,500
our meetings this evening.

1676
01:20:18,500 --> 01:20:22,850
That will be in our next meeting and that will take us to

1677
01:20:22,850 --> 01:20:24,500
our consent agenda.

1678
01:20:24,500 --> 01:20:34,500
And our first item will be PP16-0001.

1679
01:20:34,500 --> 01:20:43,500
Chair would entertain a motion.

1680
01:20:43,500 --> 01:20:47,500
Commissioner Batt.

1681
01:20:47,500 --> 01:20:48,500
Commissioner Rossell.

1682
01:20:48,500 --> 01:20:49,500
I second.

1683
01:20:49,500 --> 01:20:50,500
Okay.

1684
01:20:50,500 --> 01:20:51,500
We have a first and second.

1685
01:20:51,500 --> 01:20:54,500
Any discussion?

1686
01:20:54,500 --> 01:21:16,500
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

1687
01:21:16,500 --> 01:21:31,500
Motion carries 7-0.

1688
01:21:31,500 --> 01:21:35,710
We'll move us to item three, our individual consideration

1689
01:21:35,710 --> 01:21:36,500
items.

1690
01:21:36,500 --> 01:21:46,500
First item will be A, which will be ADP16-0013.

1691
01:21:46,500 --> 01:21:49,829
And I'm going to call on Julie Wyatt, sorry, for the

1692
01:21:49,829 --> 01:21:51,500
presentation on that.

1693
01:21:51,500 --> 01:21:55,500
It's on part of a page.

1694
01:21:55,500 --> 01:21:56,500
Good evening.

1695
01:21:56,500 --> 01:21:58,500
Would you like for me to go over the site plan again?

1696
01:21:58,500 --> 01:22:00,939
I know we went over it in work session, but because we've

1697
01:22:00,939 --> 01:22:02,500
got a lot of audience members here.

1698
01:22:02,500 --> 01:22:03,500
Please, thank you.

1699
01:22:03,500 --> 01:22:04,500
Who may not have had an opportunity.

1700
01:22:04,500 --> 01:22:05,500
Okay.

1701
01:22:05,500 --> 01:22:11,090
The request before you is an alternative development plan

1702
01:22:11,090 --> 01:22:12,500
for an Aldi.

1703
01:22:12,500 --> 01:22:15,500
The request is to construct an alternative development plan

1704
01:22:15,500 --> 01:22:17,500
to construct approximately

1705
01:22:17,500 --> 01:22:19,500
19,000 square foot grocery store.

1706
01:22:19,500 --> 01:22:25,500
The subject property is located on University and Ector.

1707
01:22:25,500 --> 01:22:27,500
And it is in our MU zoning district.

1708
01:22:27,500 --> 01:22:30,529
The use is permitted, however, there are site design

1709
01:22:30,529 --> 01:22:32,500
considerations that the applicant would

1710
01:22:32,500 --> 01:22:35,500
like for you to consider this evening.

1711
01:22:35,500 --> 01:22:39,539
There are some portions of subchapter 13 that the applicant

1712
01:22:39,539 --> 01:22:43,500
would like to deviate from.

1713
01:22:43,500 --> 01:22:45,970
One being that 60% of the street frontage shall have

1714
01:22:45,970 --> 01:22:47,500
buildings within 10 feet of the

1715
01:22:47,500 --> 01:22:48,500
front property line.

1716
01:22:48,500 --> 01:22:52,500
The minimum floor to area ratio of four tents.

1717
01:22:52,500 --> 01:22:54,899
That the parking area should be located behind the

1718
01:22:54,899 --> 01:22:56,500
buildings or on one or both sides.

1719
01:22:56,500 --> 01:23:00,640
And that the building should be set back not more than 15

1720
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:02,500
feet from the right of way unless

1721
01:23:02,500 --> 01:23:03,500
it was a plaza.

1722
01:23:03,500 --> 01:23:08,010
So those are the site design considerations that they would

1723
01:23:08,010 --> 01:23:10,500
like to deviate from tonight.

1724
01:23:10,500 --> 01:23:13,500
So we'll look at those in relationship to the site plan.

1725
01:23:13,500 --> 01:23:24,159
And actually, because Commissioner Taylor asked during the

1726
01:23:24,159 --> 01:23:27,500
work session about the easements

1727
01:23:27,500 --> 01:23:31,500
along Ector, I went ahead and pulled up the plat.

1728
01:23:31,500 --> 01:23:34,079
There is an easement, a public utility easement on the

1729
01:23:34,079 --> 01:23:36,500
property to the south of the property.

1730
01:23:36,500 --> 01:23:38,500
There isn't a public easement.

1731
01:23:38,500 --> 01:23:40,899
So if there are any polls there, we could do additional

1732
01:23:40,899 --> 01:23:42,500
research, but there's not a

1733
01:23:42,500 --> 01:23:44,500
public utility easement in that location.

1734
01:23:44,500 --> 01:23:48,500
So just wanted to answer that question for you, sir.

1735
01:23:48,500 --> 01:23:49,500
So sorry.

1736
01:23:49,500 --> 01:23:50,500
Sorry for the detour.

1737
01:23:50,500 --> 01:23:51,500
Okay.

1738
01:23:51,500 --> 01:23:52,500
Back to the site plan.

1739
01:23:52,500 --> 01:23:53,500
All right.

1740
01:23:53,500 --> 01:23:57,500
They're proposing one sign along University Street.

1741
01:23:57,500 --> 01:24:02,500
They are also proposing 72 parking spaces.

1742
01:24:02,500 --> 01:24:05,859
Now, the debt and development code requires 64 parking

1743
01:24:05,859 --> 01:24:07,500
spaces for this location.

1744
01:24:07,500 --> 01:24:10,869
It also states that if an applicant wants to exceed the

1745
01:24:10,869 --> 01:24:12,500
parking requirements, those

1746
01:24:12,500 --> 01:24:16,500
parking spaces have to be constructed of pervious surface.

1747
01:24:16,500 --> 01:24:20,220
And the applicant has elected to develop the parking lot

1748
01:24:20,220 --> 01:24:22,500
with those pervious surfaces.

1749
01:24:22,500 --> 01:24:25,500
So if you'll see the pink area, those are parking spaces,

1750
01:24:25,500 --> 01:24:27,500
but the parking spaces that

1751
01:24:27,500 --> 01:24:30,600
exceed the 64 that are required, but they are proposing per

1752
01:24:30,600 --> 01:24:31,500
vious surface.

1753
01:24:31,500 --> 01:24:34,500
So that meets the debt and development code requirements.

1754
01:24:34,500 --> 01:24:37,500
Some additional site design considerations.

1755
01:24:37,500 --> 01:24:41,930
They are proposing three and a half foot walls, masonry

1756
01:24:41,930 --> 01:24:45,500
walls to screen the carts to reduce

1757
01:24:45,500 --> 01:24:47,500
that visual impact of the carts.

1758
01:24:47,500 --> 01:24:51,420
They're also proposing some pedestrian connections from the

1759
01:24:51,420 --> 01:24:52,500
sidewalk to the building here on

1760
01:24:52,500 --> 01:24:57,500
the Ector Street side, also a pedestrian walkway here.

1761
01:24:57,500 --> 01:25:02,609
And then their loading dock area is proposed to be below

1762
01:25:02,609 --> 01:25:05,500
grade, screened with an eight

1763
01:25:05,500 --> 01:25:09,220
foot masonry wall to reduce the visual impacts of that

1764
01:25:09,220 --> 01:25:10,500
loading area.

1765
01:25:10,500 --> 01:25:13,689
When we look at the landscape plan, there's a little more

1766
01:25:13,689 --> 01:25:14,500
to look at.

1767
01:25:14,500 --> 01:25:19,050
First of all, normally a 15 foot type C buffer would be

1768
01:25:19,050 --> 01:25:21,500
required in this location.

1769
01:25:21,500 --> 01:25:25,010
However, they've extended that buffer and actually added

1770
01:25:25,010 --> 01:25:26,500
additional landscaping within

1771
01:25:26,500 --> 01:25:30,539
it in order to beef up that buffer between the proposed

1772
01:25:30,539 --> 01:25:32,500
commercial development and the

1773
01:25:32,500 --> 01:25:34,500
neighborhood to the south.

1774
01:25:34,500 --> 01:25:38,300
They're also proposing some foundation plantings here along

1775
01:25:38,300 --> 01:25:40,500
University in the front of the

1776
01:25:40,500 --> 01:25:41,500
building.

1777
01:25:41,500 --> 01:25:43,500
They're landscape islands.

1778
01:25:43,500 --> 01:25:47,090
They are meeting the landscape island and NCAP requirements

1779
01:25:47,090 --> 01:25:48,500
of the city of Denton's

1780
01:25:48,500 --> 01:25:51,500
subchapter 13, but they are enhancing that.

1781
01:25:51,500 --> 01:25:55,539
Subchapter 13 requires only one tree in those landscape

1782
01:25:55,539 --> 01:25:56,500
islands.

1783
01:25:56,500 --> 01:25:59,000
They've actually proposed not only those, but some low

1784
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:00,500
water usage shrubbery in order

1785
01:26:00,500 --> 01:26:05,500
to provide some enhanced landscaping.

1786
01:26:05,500 --> 01:26:10,289
And then this parking lot here on Ector, they're proposing

1787
01:26:10,289 --> 01:26:13,500
additional screening for that.

1788
01:26:13,500 --> 01:26:16,500
The code only requires one tree every 40 feet.

1789
01:26:16,500 --> 01:26:20,539
They've actually proposed to add shrubbery and to reduce

1790
01:26:20,539 --> 01:26:22,500
the visual impacts of that parking

1791
01:26:22,500 --> 01:26:23,500
area.

1792
01:26:23,500 --> 01:26:27,600
All of this combined includes an additional 4,600 square

1793
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:29,500
feet in landscape area that's

1794
01:26:29,500 --> 01:26:33,239
not required by the code, as well as additional tree canopy

1795
01:26:33,239 --> 01:26:35,500
at maturity of over 6,000 square

1796
01:26:35,500 --> 01:26:38,500
feet.

1797
01:26:38,500 --> 01:26:40,500
Here's the elevations.

1798
01:26:40,500 --> 01:26:44,390
Just to give you a little shorthand, this elevation is

1799
01:26:44,390 --> 01:26:45,500
proposed to be on HIC on the

1800
01:26:45,500 --> 01:26:46,500
site.

1801
01:26:46,500 --> 01:26:53,399
So on Hector, this is the elevation that will be on this

1802
01:26:53,399 --> 01:26:54,500
side.

1803
01:26:54,500 --> 01:26:58,500
This is the university side of the proposed building.

1804
01:26:58,500 --> 01:27:03,000
And then this is the side that will face the south end of

1805
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:04,500
the property.

1806
01:27:04,500 --> 01:27:07,500
This is 100% masonry structure.

1807
01:27:07,500 --> 01:27:09,500
Well, not 100%, I'm sorry.

1808
01:27:09,500 --> 01:27:10,500
That's incorrect.

1809
01:27:10,500 --> 01:27:12,500
It is predominantly masonry.

1810
01:27:12,500 --> 01:27:17,010
There are some additional elements in this area that are

1811
01:27:17,010 --> 01:27:19,500
going to be a metal element.

1812
01:27:19,500 --> 01:27:23,500
The considerations for ADPs are in subchapter 13.

1813
01:27:23,500 --> 01:27:27,020
First, they need to preserve existing neighborhoods, assure

1814
01:27:27,020 --> 01:27:29,100
quality development that fits within

1815
01:27:29,100 --> 01:27:32,430
the character of Denton, focus new development activity

1816
01:27:32,430 --> 01:27:34,500
centers to curb strip development

1817
01:27:34,500 --> 01:27:37,199
and urban sprawl to ensure that the infrastructure is

1818
01:27:37,199 --> 01:27:39,500
capable of accommodating the development,

1819
01:27:39,500 --> 01:27:42,600
and ensure that the proposal results in an overall high

1820
01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:44,500
quality development that meets

1821
01:27:44,500 --> 01:27:46,500
the intent of why we have these requirements.

1822
01:27:46,500 --> 01:27:49,500
And when you look at why we have these requirements for

1823
01:27:49,500 --> 01:27:52,500
building orientation and parking location,

1824
01:27:52,500 --> 01:27:56,289
it really is to enhance the pedestrian experience in these

1825
01:27:56,289 --> 01:27:58,500
pedestrian-oriented areas.

1826
01:27:58,500 --> 01:28:02,909
Staff worked with the applicant to get additional landsca

1827
01:28:02,909 --> 01:28:05,500
ping to in effect work the same way

1828
01:28:05,500 --> 01:28:08,029
a building in that area may in order to reduce the visual

1829
01:28:08,029 --> 01:28:09,500
impacts of the parking area to

1830
01:28:09,500 --> 01:28:13,460
define the street wall and to provide visual relief for

1831
01:28:13,460 --> 01:28:15,500
pedestrians walking by.

1832
01:28:15,500 --> 01:28:19,500
It will provide a nice visual atmosphere.

1833
01:28:19,500 --> 01:28:23,199
So based upon the criteria for approval, staff does

1834
01:28:23,199 --> 01:28:25,500
recommend approval of the request with

1835
01:28:25,500 --> 01:28:27,500
some conditions.

1836
01:28:27,500 --> 01:28:30,800
First, that the proposed development comply with or

1837
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:32,500
substantially conform to the attached

1838
01:28:32,500 --> 01:28:35,500
site plan, landscape plan, and elevations.

1839
01:28:35,500 --> 01:28:37,449
And that includes those elements we talked about, the

1840
01:28:37,449 --> 01:28:39,500
pedestrian connections, the enhanced

1841
01:28:39,500 --> 01:28:42,600
buffer, the additional landscaping and tree canopy,

1842
01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:44,500
enhanced landscaping areas in the

1843
01:28:44,500 --> 01:28:48,770
parking islands and on screening, the prohibition of ground

1844
01:28:48,770 --> 01:28:50,500
signs on Ector to reduce the visual

1845
01:28:50,500 --> 01:28:53,899
impact of the commercial development, to screen that cart

1846
01:28:53,899 --> 01:28:55,500
storage, and then also to make sure

1847
01:28:55,500 --> 01:28:58,680
that that loading area is below grade so that it will

1848
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:00,500
reduce the visual impact.

1849
01:29:00,500 --> 01:29:02,539
I'll stand for any questions, and I know the applicant is

1850
01:29:02,539 --> 01:29:03,500
here and would be prepared to

1851
01:29:03,500 --> 01:29:05,500
answer any questions as well.

1852
01:29:05,500 --> 01:29:07,500
And make a presentation.

1853
01:29:07,500 --> 01:29:08,500
Okay.

1854
01:29:08,500 --> 01:29:09,500
Answer any questions.

1855
01:29:09,500 --> 01:29:10,500
Thank you, Chair.

1856
01:29:10,500 --> 01:29:14,270
Just curious, what determined where these pervious parking

1857
01:29:14,270 --> 01:29:15,500
spaces would go?

1858
01:29:15,500 --> 01:29:18,500
Did it have something to do with how they drained or?

1859
01:29:18,500 --> 01:29:21,270
You know, that would be something that you would, you might

1860
01:29:21,270 --> 01:29:22,500
want to ask the applicant.

1861
01:29:22,500 --> 01:29:25,170
When they, you know, that was initially something because

1862
01:29:25,170 --> 01:29:26,500
they did have a neighborhood meeting

1863
01:29:26,500 --> 01:29:30,100
and that was initially something that they were considering

1864
01:29:30,100 --> 01:29:31,500
is putting that within this

1865
01:29:31,500 --> 01:29:36,500
ADP to construct those with just regular concrete.

1866
01:29:36,500 --> 01:29:39,899
And they've elected since then to do those with pervious

1867
01:29:39,899 --> 01:29:41,500
pavement in order to meet the

1868
01:29:41,500 --> 01:29:43,500
Denton Development Code requirements.

1869
01:29:43,500 --> 01:29:44,500
So.

1870
01:29:44,500 --> 01:29:45,500
Okay.

1871
01:29:45,500 --> 01:29:46,500
I'll pick their brain when they come up.

1872
01:29:46,500 --> 01:29:47,500
Yes.

1873
01:29:47,500 --> 01:29:48,500
Yes.

1874
01:29:48,500 --> 01:29:49,500
Thank you.

1875
01:29:49,500 --> 01:29:51,500
Any other questions for staff?

1876
01:29:51,500 --> 01:29:53,500
Thank you, Julie.

1877
01:29:53,500 --> 01:29:54,500
Sure.

1878
01:29:54,500 --> 01:29:56,500
I'm sorry.

1879
01:29:56,500 --> 01:29:57,500
Commissioner Tyler.

1880
01:29:57,500 --> 01:29:58,500
President Light.

1881
01:29:58,500 --> 01:29:59,500
Thank you, Chair.

1882
01:29:59,500 --> 01:30:01,500
Sorry, I was slow on the button there.

1883
01:30:01,500 --> 01:30:07,220
So I'm looking at the ADP request has four things that are

1884
01:30:07,220 --> 01:30:09,500
within the change.

1885
01:30:09,500 --> 01:30:13,939
As you said, floor area ratio, the setbacks, and then

1886
01:30:13,939 --> 01:30:15,500
parking for the building.

1887
01:30:15,500 --> 01:30:20,800
So this lot works in development, meeting all the

1888
01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:24,500
requirements that it develops.

1889
01:30:24,500 --> 01:30:27,720
If they didn't require an ADP, they just file a project

1890
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:29,500
that met those requirements,

1891
01:30:29,500 --> 01:30:32,500
put in the building permit and start construction already.

1892
01:30:32,500 --> 01:30:33,500
Yes, sir.

1893
01:30:33,500 --> 01:30:34,500
The use is permitted.

1894
01:30:34,500 --> 01:30:36,500
And so can you pull up the site plan?

1895
01:30:36,500 --> 01:30:37,500
Sure.

1896
01:30:37,500 --> 01:30:40,500
Just to get an idea of what that would look like.

1897
01:30:40,500 --> 01:30:44,810
They would have to have the buildings not more than 10 feet

1898
01:30:44,810 --> 01:30:46,500
from Exeter Street?

1899
01:30:46,500 --> 01:30:48,500
Well, the building actually fronts university.

1900
01:30:48,500 --> 01:30:51,500
So the building would have to be slid up toward university,

1901
01:30:51,500 --> 01:30:55,500
either toward this corner or potentially

1902
01:30:55,500 --> 01:30:57,500
in the middle here within the parking centered in the back.

1903
01:30:57,500 --> 01:30:58,500
It wouldn't have to face both streets.

1904
01:30:58,500 --> 01:30:59,500
It would only have to face university.

1905
01:30:59,500 --> 01:31:00,500
Just one.

1906
01:31:00,500 --> 01:31:06,500
And then it would have to front at least 60%.

1907
01:31:06,500 --> 01:31:07,500
Oh, sorry.

1908
01:31:07,500 --> 01:31:08,500
Can you make sure your mic is on?

1909
01:31:08,500 --> 01:31:09,500
Sorry about that.

1910
01:31:09,500 --> 01:31:10,500
Okay.

1911
01:31:10,500 --> 01:31:15,649
So and then it would, if so it would front university and

1912
01:31:15,649 --> 01:31:16,500
it had to be at least or not

1913
01:31:16,500 --> 01:31:19,500
more than 10 feet from university.

1914
01:31:19,500 --> 01:31:24,500
60% of the property line would have to have buildings,

1915
01:31:24,500 --> 01:31:26,500
built structure within 10 feet

1916
01:31:26,500 --> 01:31:27,500
of the property.

1917
01:31:27,500 --> 01:31:33,229
So say for Granz, if this was 100 feet long, 60 feet of

1918
01:31:33,229 --> 01:31:34,500
this would have to have a building

1919
01:31:34,500 --> 01:31:37,500
within 10 feet of the front property line.

1920
01:31:37,500 --> 01:31:40,270
They couldn't actually do it in this area because there's a

1921
01:31:40,270 --> 01:31:41,500
20 foot utility.

1922
01:31:41,500 --> 01:31:42,500
Is that where you're going?

1923
01:31:42,500 --> 01:31:43,500
It was good.

1924
01:31:43,500 --> 01:31:44,500
20 foot utility easement.

1925
01:31:44,500 --> 01:31:47,680
So they would just have to be, you know, adjacent to that

1926
01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:49,500
20 foot utility easement.

1927
01:31:49,500 --> 01:31:50,500
Okay.

1928
01:31:50,500 --> 01:31:52,939
And then the floor area ratio, we're saying a minimum

1929
01:31:52,939 --> 01:31:54,500
recommended floor area ratio of

1930
01:31:54,500 --> 01:31:57,500
0.4 and they're at like 0.23.

1931
01:31:57,500 --> 01:31:58,500
Yes, sir.

1932
01:31:58,500 --> 01:32:00,970
So they would have to build a 32,000 square foot building

1933
01:32:00,970 --> 01:32:02,500
instead of a 19,000 square foot

1934
01:32:02,500 --> 01:32:03,500
building?

1935
01:32:03,500 --> 01:32:06,220
So the areas and pedestrian areas can actually be

1936
01:32:06,220 --> 01:32:08,500
considered as a part of the floor to area

1937
01:32:08,500 --> 01:32:10,500
ratio in the zoning district.

1938
01:32:10,500 --> 01:32:16,239
So you could potentially have a, you know, a gathering

1939
01:32:16,239 --> 01:32:19,500
space or some sort of plaza area

1940
01:32:19,500 --> 01:32:22,500
that could count toward that floor to area ratio.

1941
01:32:22,500 --> 01:32:24,500
So it wouldn't necessarily just be building.

1942
01:32:24,500 --> 01:32:29,500
It could be building and that people place.

1943
01:32:29,500 --> 01:32:31,500
And this is NRMU.

1944
01:32:31,500 --> 01:32:33,500
Yes, sir.

1945
01:32:33,500 --> 01:32:37,210
So it allows grocery stores up to 25,000 square feet,

1946
01:32:37,210 --> 01:32:40,500
general retail to 5,000 or so, and restaurants

1947
01:32:40,500 --> 01:32:42,500
up to something 4 or 5,000.

1948
01:32:42,500 --> 01:32:43,500
4,000, I believe.

1949
01:32:43,500 --> 01:32:44,500
4,000.

1950
01:32:44,500 --> 01:32:47,500
And then, you know, apartments with a mixed use.

1951
01:32:47,500 --> 01:32:48,500
Or SUP.

1952
01:32:48,500 --> 01:32:49,500
Yes, sir.

1953
01:32:49,500 --> 01:32:52,500
Or an SUP, but not single family homes.

1954
01:32:52,500 --> 01:32:54,500
I don't believe.

1955
01:32:54,500 --> 01:32:55,500
Let me check.

1956
01:32:55,500 --> 01:32:56,500
I believe it's multi family.

1957
01:32:56,500 --> 01:32:57,500
I don't think so.

1958
01:32:57,500 --> 01:32:58,500
Are you correct?

1959
01:32:58,500 --> 01:33:01,600
So like a fourplex could go in, an apartment could go in

1960
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:02,500
with an SUP.

1961
01:33:02,500 --> 01:33:05,710
You could have retail with apartments above without an SUP

1962
01:33:05,710 --> 01:33:07,500
with just a building permit.

1963
01:33:07,500 --> 01:33:10,500
As long as it met the mixed use development requirements.

1964
01:33:10,500 --> 01:33:11,500
Yes, sir.

1965
01:33:11,500 --> 01:33:12,500
Okay.

1966
01:33:12,500 --> 01:33:13,500
Thank you.

1967
01:33:13,500 --> 01:33:14,500
Sure.

1968
01:33:14,500 --> 01:33:16,500
Any other questions for staff?

1969
01:33:16,500 --> 01:33:19,500
Thank you, Julie.

1970
01:33:19,500 --> 01:33:21,500
Thank you.

1971
01:33:21,500 --> 01:33:26,279
This is not a public hearing, but it is an individual

1972
01:33:26,279 --> 01:33:28,500
consideration item.

1973
01:33:28,500 --> 01:33:31,500
As such, so far, the public is welcome to speak on this.

1974
01:33:31,500 --> 01:33:33,500
You will have to fill out a card.

1975
01:33:33,500 --> 01:33:35,850
The difference between a public hearing and an individual

1976
01:33:35,850 --> 01:33:37,500
consideration is instead of having

1977
01:33:37,500 --> 01:33:40,029
four minutes like you will in a public hearing, you'll have

1978
01:33:40,029 --> 01:33:40,500
three.

1979
01:33:40,500 --> 01:33:43,710
So if anyone would like to speak on this, you can certainly

1980
01:33:43,710 --> 01:33:46,500
give comment as an individual consideration.

1981
01:33:46,500 --> 01:33:48,500
You will need to fill out a card, though.

1982
01:33:48,500 --> 01:33:50,500
So far, I have two cards.

1983
01:33:50,500 --> 01:33:58,500
The first card I have is for Brigid Corbett at 1220 Ector.

1984
01:33:58,500 --> 01:34:01,050
Would you like to speak or would you just like your card

1985
01:34:01,050 --> 01:34:01,500
read?

1986
01:34:01,500 --> 01:34:02,500
I'd like to speak.

1987
01:34:02,500 --> 01:34:04,500
Okay.

1988
01:34:04,500 --> 01:34:07,010
Please state your name and address for the record and you

1989
01:34:07,010 --> 01:34:08,500
're speaking in opposition.

1990
01:34:08,500 --> 01:34:09,500
Yes, I am.

1991
01:34:09,500 --> 01:34:10,500
Okay.

1992
01:34:10,500 --> 01:34:11,500
My name is Brigid Corbett.

1993
01:34:11,500 --> 01:34:19,500
I'm at 1220 Ector, Denton, Texas, 76201.

1994
01:34:19,500 --> 01:34:21,500
I'm a resident of the city of

1995
01:34:21,500 --> 01:34:22,500
San Diego.

1996
01:34:22,500 --> 01:34:24,500
I'm a resident of the city of San Diego.

1997
01:34:24,500 --> 01:34:29,500
My concerns are twofold.

1998
01:34:29,500 --> 01:34:34,090
And one of my concerns, I think that the way things are set

1999
01:34:34,090 --> 01:34:39,500
up with the city, these things are not usually

2000
01:34:39,500 --> 01:34:41,500
addressed together.

2001
01:34:41,500 --> 01:34:45,449
I had tried back in May, I sent an email to a city employee

2002
01:34:45,449 --> 01:34:47,500
and asked her to forward it to some other

2003
01:34:47,500 --> 01:34:49,500
city.

2004
01:34:49,500 --> 01:34:51,500
And she said, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

2005
01:34:51,500 --> 01:34:52,500
I'm sorry."

2006
01:34:52,500 --> 01:34:54,500
I'm feeling my concerns are not addressed.

2007
01:34:54,500 --> 01:34:58,090
But what my concerns are, number one, is the variance in

2008
01:34:58,090 --> 01:34:59,500
the parking.

2009
01:34:59,500 --> 01:35:03,500
Because this site abuts a neighborhood, I feel like the

2010
01:35:03,500 --> 01:35:07,500
current zoning that's in place is in place to

2011
01:35:07,500 --> 01:35:13,500
protect our neighborhood from the scale of business.

2012
01:35:13,500 --> 01:35:17,279
And so to do a variance on that seems to me to put our

2013
01:35:17,279 --> 01:35:19,500
neighborhood character at risk.

2014
01:35:19,500 --> 01:35:23,449
And I think that that ties in also with traffic concerns

2015
01:35:23,449 --> 01:35:27,500
because there are things that are going on with

2016
01:35:27,500 --> 01:35:32,539
Ector Street that, for instance, the street was recently

2017
01:35:32,539 --> 01:35:35,500
repaved, even though it had been repaved in the

2018
01:35:35,500 --> 01:35:37,500
not too distant past.

2019
01:35:37,500 --> 01:35:41,149
It's a very short street, but it is yellow striped, which

2020
01:35:41,149 --> 01:35:43,500
gives the impression that there's a higher

2021
01:35:43,500 --> 01:35:45,500
speed limit than it is.

2022
01:35:45,500 --> 01:35:51,140
And when I sent my email back in May to express concerns, I

2023
01:35:51,140 --> 01:35:55,500
asked about any kind of traffic calming

2024
01:35:55,500 --> 01:35:58,880
practices that are done routinely in larger cities like

2025
01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:00,500
Austin, for instance.

2026
01:36:00,500 --> 01:36:02,500
And there are numerous things that can be done.

2027
01:36:02,500 --> 01:36:07,609
One of those is speed bumps, also texture on the road, stop

2028
01:36:07,609 --> 01:36:08,500
signs.

2029
01:36:08,500 --> 01:36:12,369
The response I received back today that had actually come

2030
01:36:12,369 --> 01:36:15,500
out in June but didn't reach me until today when I

2031
01:36:15,500 --> 01:36:21,500
asked about it addressed only speed bumps.

2032
01:36:21,500 --> 01:36:23,890
And it directed me to speak with someone in the engineering

2033
01:36:23,890 --> 01:36:24,500
department.

2034
01:36:24,500 --> 01:36:26,500
And I'm happy to do that.

2035
01:36:26,500 --> 01:36:29,680
But I think that if there is zoning that affects a

2036
01:36:29,680 --> 01:36:32,500
situation like this where it's a business that's right next

2037
01:36:32,500 --> 01:36:37,279
to a neighborhood, you can't fully address it without

2038
01:36:37,279 --> 01:36:40,500
addressing the traffic concerns.

2039
01:36:40,500 --> 01:36:45,149
And I had also said that with the variance in the parking,

2040
01:36:45,149 --> 01:36:46,500
I'm opposed.

2041
01:36:46,500 --> 01:36:50,029
If the plan came in with the parking that's already allowed

2042
01:36:50,029 --> 01:36:52,500
in the zoning, I would be fine with it.

2043
01:36:52,500 --> 01:36:53,500
Thank you.

2044
01:36:53,500 --> 01:36:56,500
We have a question for you, Commissioner Beck.

2045
01:36:56,500 --> 01:36:57,500
Thank you, Chair.

2046
01:36:57,500 --> 01:36:59,500
Ms. Corbett, thanks for coming in and speaking to us.

2047
01:36:59,500 --> 01:37:01,500
Appreciate it.

2048
01:37:01,500 --> 01:37:05,779
This traffic you're concerned about, do you see -- how much

2049
01:37:05,779 --> 01:37:08,500
of it do you actually see coming down, Hector,

2050
01:37:08,500 --> 01:37:10,500
as opposed to University?

2051
01:37:10,500 --> 01:37:13,810
We don't have a whole lot of traffic on our street, but

2052
01:37:13,810 --> 01:37:18,500
there are people who drive much faster than 30.

2053
01:37:18,500 --> 01:37:19,500
I agree.

2054
01:37:19,500 --> 01:37:22,500
And the speed limit there now should be 30.

2055
01:37:22,500 --> 01:37:24,500
Okay.

2056
01:37:24,500 --> 01:37:27,819
Your concern is that this is going to be violated more

2057
01:37:27,819 --> 01:37:31,500
often now because if this grocery store goes in?

2058
01:37:31,500 --> 01:37:36,500
Well, our street is deemed a collector street.

2059
01:37:36,500 --> 01:37:37,500
Right.

2060
01:37:37,500 --> 01:37:41,890
In larger cities, collector streets still have traffic

2061
01:37:41,890 --> 01:37:45,500
calming strategies because you can't just say,

2062
01:37:45,500 --> 01:37:48,109
well, now that this is a collector street, we're going to

2063
01:37:48,109 --> 01:37:50,500
ignore that it's a neighborhood street as well.

2064
01:37:50,500 --> 01:37:54,350
And it's my impression that we are getting away from

2065
01:37:54,350 --> 01:37:57,500
concerns for the integrity of the neighborhood

2066
01:37:57,500 --> 01:38:02,500
and moving towards making traffic easier.

2067
01:38:02,500 --> 01:38:07,619
The response that I got today was, let's see, our

2068
01:38:07,619 --> 01:38:09,939
engineering department checked with fire regarding

2069
01:38:09,939 --> 01:38:11,500
installation of speed humps on Hector Street.

2070
01:38:11,500 --> 01:38:14,930
Unfortunately, they don't support it as it is designated as

2071
01:38:14,930 --> 01:38:17,500
a collector in the city's mobility plan.

2072
01:38:17,500 --> 01:38:20,880
Additionally, this segment of Hector is approximately 30

2073
01:38:20,880 --> 01:38:23,500
feet wide with frontage roads on either side.

2074
01:38:23,500 --> 01:38:27,500
That's some of us here live on Hector.

2075
01:38:27,500 --> 01:38:29,500
That's where we park our cars.

2076
01:38:29,500 --> 01:38:33,500
In no way are those roads, makes it sound like a freeway,

2077
01:38:33,500 --> 01:38:36,960
wide enough to provide access and space for parking

2078
01:38:36,960 --> 01:38:37,500
vehicles.

2079
01:38:37,500 --> 01:38:42,069
As such, the street design enables vehicles to pass at a

2080
01:38:42,069 --> 01:38:45,500
higher speed due to the reduced friction,

2081
01:38:45,500 --> 01:38:49,500
which I'm sorry, but that really didn't make sense to me,

2082
01:38:49,500 --> 01:38:51,500
reduced friction.

2083
01:38:51,500 --> 01:38:55,149
Well, I agree there's probably going to be some increased

2084
01:38:55,149 --> 01:38:59,210
traffic coming down Hector and some calming devices would

2085
01:38:59,210 --> 01:39:01,500
be a sensible thing to do.

2086
01:39:01,500 --> 01:39:05,500
So I don't know what we can do here with that today.

2087
01:39:05,500 --> 01:39:08,680
Well, I'll be contacting the engineering department, but I

2088
01:39:08,680 --> 01:39:11,140
would hope that in the future there would be collaboration

2089
01:39:11,140 --> 01:39:11,500
between departments

2090
01:39:11,500 --> 01:39:15,039
because obviously something like this affects more than

2091
01:39:15,039 --> 01:39:16,500
just the lot itself.

2092
01:39:16,500 --> 01:39:17,500
I understand. Thank you.

2093
01:39:17,500 --> 01:39:18,500
All right. Thank you.

2094
01:39:18,500 --> 01:39:21,500
Another question for you, please. Commissioner Rossell.

2095
01:39:21,500 --> 01:39:25,270
Thank you. It's actually more of a clarification from staff

2096
01:39:25,270 --> 01:39:28,500
regarding Ms. Corbett's comments about parking.

2097
01:39:28,500 --> 01:39:31,819
Is the parking currently a minimum and they're going above

2098
01:39:31,819 --> 01:39:35,529
and beyond or is it a maximum and they're actually asking

2099
01:39:35,529 --> 01:39:37,500
for variance to put in more parking?

2100
01:39:37,500 --> 01:39:38,500
Can you clarify that?

2101
01:39:38,500 --> 01:39:41,500
Sure. Sure.

2102
01:39:41,500 --> 01:39:44,229
The original neighborhood meeting that they had did say

2103
01:39:44,229 --> 01:39:46,909
that they wanted to exceed the parking and construct it

2104
01:39:46,909 --> 01:39:48,500
with impervious surface.

2105
01:39:48,500 --> 01:39:52,739
The Denton Development Code allows developers to exceed the

2106
01:39:52,739 --> 01:39:56,539
parking maximums if they construct them with pervious

2107
01:39:56,539 --> 01:39:57,500
surface.

2108
01:39:57,500 --> 01:40:00,210
So since they have come back and said, no, we want to do it

2109
01:40:00,210 --> 01:40:02,810
with pervious surface, that actually meets the code

2110
01:40:02,810 --> 01:40:06,479
requirements and therefore is not a part of this ADP

2111
01:40:06,479 --> 01:40:07,500
request.

2112
01:40:07,500 --> 01:40:10,760
They actually with parking, with the parking numbers, they

2113
01:40:10,760 --> 01:40:12,500
meet the code requirements.

2114
01:40:12,500 --> 01:40:16,500
Thank you. Thank you for the clarification.

2115
01:40:16,500 --> 01:40:18,500
I have another card.

2116
01:40:18,500 --> 01:40:27,500
Amber Briggle, 529 Malone Street, speaking in support.

2117
01:40:27,500 --> 01:40:29,500
It's good to see you back.

2118
01:40:29,500 --> 01:40:30,500
I missed y'all.

2119
01:40:30,500 --> 01:40:31,500
Yeah.

2120
01:40:31,500 --> 01:40:32,500
Thank you, Chair, commissioners.

2121
01:40:32,500 --> 01:40:33,500
My name is Amber Briggle.

2122
01:40:33,500 --> 01:40:37,149
I live just north of this proposed development and I work

2123
01:40:37,149 --> 01:40:38,500
just south of it.

2124
01:40:38,500 --> 01:40:41,500
So I'll give my work address, 529 Malone Street.

2125
01:40:41,500 --> 01:40:46,489
I have a bit of history with this case, being that I served

2126
01:40:46,489 --> 01:40:49,500
on the Planning and Zoning Commission for three years.

2127
01:40:49,500 --> 01:40:53,250
I know that previously this case, there was a proposal for

2128
01:40:53,250 --> 01:40:55,500
a zoning change on this corner.

2129
01:40:55,500 --> 01:40:59,300
They wanted to put in drive-through fast food and the

2130
01:40:59,300 --> 01:41:02,500
neighborhood came out vehemently opposed.

2131
01:41:02,500 --> 01:41:04,500
And I thought it was a terrible idea.

2132
01:41:04,500 --> 01:41:06,500
And so we did reject that proposal.

2133
01:41:06,500 --> 01:41:08,500
I think this is a much better idea.

2134
01:41:08,500 --> 01:41:10,600
Commissioner Beck and I were at that neighborhood meeting

2135
01:41:10,600 --> 01:41:11,500
several months ago.

2136
01:41:11,500 --> 01:41:13,500
I am in favor of this.

2137
01:41:13,500 --> 01:41:16,500
I know I saw in y'all's backup some of the considerations

2138
01:41:16,500 --> 01:41:20,500
why it required that the ADP were, for example,

2139
01:41:20,500 --> 01:41:22,500
item 1A and item 1C.

2140
01:41:22,500 --> 01:41:25,680
1A said it's set a little closer to the neighborhood and

2141
01:41:25,680 --> 01:41:27,500
set away from University Drive.

2142
01:41:27,500 --> 01:41:30,909
And the parking was going to be on the front and on the

2143
01:41:30,909 --> 01:41:31,500
side.

2144
01:41:31,500 --> 01:41:35,130
I think that's great because if we're in our Gentin 2030

2145
01:41:35,130 --> 01:41:37,500
plan wanting to do more multimodal transportation,

2146
01:41:37,500 --> 01:41:40,850
for example, cycling and walking, you want the structure to

2147
01:41:40,850 --> 01:41:42,500
be closer to the neighborhood.

2148
01:41:42,500 --> 01:41:43,500
And in this case, it is.

2149
01:41:43,500 --> 01:41:46,500
So I think that that's a good idea.

2150
01:41:46,500 --> 01:41:50,199
I also think having more parking spaces means that there

2151
01:41:50,199 --> 01:41:52,500
will be less parking on the street,

2152
01:41:52,500 --> 01:41:55,500
which was a concern that the neighborhood had.

2153
01:41:55,500 --> 01:41:57,529
You may recall, Commissioner Beck, they were very concerned

2154
01:41:57,529 --> 01:41:59,500
about parking on Ector and possibly on Emory.

2155
01:41:59,500 --> 01:42:03,300
I think having more parking spaces on site is going to

2156
01:42:03,300 --> 01:42:05,500
reduce on street parking.

2157
01:42:05,500 --> 01:42:08,500
I am in favor of the pedestrian access.

2158
01:42:08,500 --> 01:42:11,500
I'm curious to see where the bike racks are.

2159
01:42:11,500 --> 01:42:14,500
I think it is required now.

2160
01:42:14,500 --> 01:42:16,500
You're smiling at me.

2161
01:42:16,500 --> 01:42:20,500
But you know I'm going to talk about bike racks.

2162
01:42:20,500 --> 01:42:23,500
I think it's required now in our parking requirements.

2163
01:42:23,500 --> 01:42:26,500
I was just kind of curious to see where those were at.

2164
01:42:26,500 --> 01:42:31,090
A couple of questions I had were the extra 5,000 feet or so

2165
01:42:31,090 --> 01:42:32,500
of landscaping.

2166
01:42:32,500 --> 01:42:35,020
I'm kind of curious to know if Bermuda grass is included in

2167
01:42:35,020 --> 01:42:35,500
that.

2168
01:42:35,500 --> 01:42:37,500
Staff has heard me talk about this before.

2169
01:42:37,500 --> 01:42:38,500
I am in favor of more.

2170
01:42:38,500 --> 01:42:42,369
If we're going to be asking for accommodations from

2171
01:42:42,369 --> 01:42:43,500
developers,

2172
01:42:43,500 --> 01:42:47,500
I think we need to be encouraging more zero scaping.

2173
01:42:47,500 --> 01:42:50,500
And they can certainly put Bermuda grass on their property,

2174
01:42:50,500 --> 01:42:53,720
but I think if we're going to be counting this landscape

2175
01:42:53,720 --> 01:42:55,500
requirement that they're going above and beyond,

2176
01:42:55,500 --> 01:42:57,899
I don't think it should be with something that's Bermuda

2177
01:42:57,899 --> 01:43:00,500
grass that requires a lot more water to do.

2178
01:43:00,500 --> 01:43:03,920
So I would again encourage and urge staff and the Planning

2179
01:43:03,920 --> 01:43:04,500
and Zoning Commission

2180
01:43:04,500 --> 01:43:10,670
to look at more zero scaping requirements in the cases of

2181
01:43:10,670 --> 01:43:12,500
SUPs and ADPs.

2182
01:43:12,500 --> 01:43:14,500
Bike racks, okay.

2183
01:43:14,500 --> 01:43:17,770
Oh, and I'm also curious to know if the applicant did a

2184
01:43:17,770 --> 01:43:19,500
traffic study on Emory.

2185
01:43:19,500 --> 01:43:21,539
The last time that this lot came to us, a traffic study on

2186
01:43:21,539 --> 01:43:22,500
Emory was not done.

2187
01:43:22,500 --> 01:43:26,029
And I think that that's important to look at since it's a

2188
01:43:26,029 --> 01:43:28,500
straight kind of east-west road.

2189
01:43:28,500 --> 01:43:32,050
And also we talked at the neighborhood meeting about

2190
01:43:32,050 --> 01:43:36,500
possibly putting up a sign showing the trucks,

2191
01:43:36,500 --> 01:43:39,500
that there was no truck traffic going down Emory or Ector.

2192
01:43:39,500 --> 01:43:42,500
They wanted to do a one-way in and out on University.

2193
01:43:42,500 --> 01:43:45,060
I just want to make sure that that's included in this as

2194
01:43:45,060 --> 01:43:45,500
well.

2195
01:43:45,500 --> 01:43:50,720
And regarding the citizen who spoke before me, I thought

2196
01:43:50,720 --> 01:43:51,500
you had some very good concerns.

2197
01:43:51,500 --> 01:43:55,500
I'm concerned also about the speed on Ector a lot.

2198
01:43:55,500 --> 01:43:59,279
And I think if we were to continue working on our bike plan

2199
01:43:59,279 --> 01:43:59,500
,

2200
01:43:59,500 --> 01:44:04,500
I think striping Ector to include a designated bike lane

2201
01:44:04,500 --> 01:44:06,500
would not only narrow the lanes,

2202
01:44:06,500 --> 01:44:09,500
which would kind of create this psychological --

2203
01:44:09,500 --> 01:44:12,060
kind of make you feel like you've got to drive a little bit

2204
01:44:12,060 --> 01:44:14,500
slower because it's a shorter, smaller lane,

2205
01:44:14,500 --> 01:44:16,500
but also encourages more multimodal transportation.

2206
01:44:16,500 --> 01:44:18,840
For example, the students coming up from UNT, they lost

2207
01:44:18,840 --> 01:44:19,500
their sack and save.

2208
01:44:19,500 --> 01:44:22,710
Now they've got to ride their bikes across University to

2209
01:44:22,710 --> 01:44:26,500
get to Albertsons, Sam's Club, Walmart, and Kroger.

2210
01:44:26,500 --> 01:44:30,500
This is on the correct side of the road.

2211
01:44:30,500 --> 01:44:31,500
I'm wrapping it up.

2212
01:44:31,500 --> 01:44:36,430
But if we could get some striping on Ector, it would slow

2213
01:44:36,430 --> 01:44:39,500
the traffic and encourage more cycling.

2214
01:44:39,500 --> 01:44:40,500
That's it. Thank you.

2215
01:44:40,500 --> 01:44:41,500
-Question for you. -Yes, sir.

2216
01:44:41,500 --> 01:44:44,069
-Commissioner Rossell. -Thank you, Mr. Rolfe, for being

2217
01:44:44,069 --> 01:44:44,500
here.

2218
01:44:44,500 --> 01:44:46,500
I think the city uses the word "friction,"

2219
01:44:46,500 --> 01:44:48,989
so maybe the bike lanes would create friction to slow down

2220
01:44:48,989 --> 01:44:50,500
traffic to the e-mail's point.

2221
01:44:50,500 --> 01:44:52,500
Maybe that's what they're talking about. I don't know.

2222
01:44:52,500 --> 01:44:54,970
But maybe the bike lanes would help with that sort of

2223
01:44:54,970 --> 01:44:58,500
friction to encourage slower traffic down that road.

2224
01:44:58,500 --> 01:45:01,500
-Sure. -I support that theory completely.

2225
01:45:01,500 --> 01:45:05,640
I was wondering if the applicant or Julie could speak to

2226
01:45:05,640 --> 01:45:08,500
the bike racks for clarification.

2227
01:45:08,500 --> 01:45:11,789
I'm going to have the applicant come up and show you where

2228
01:45:11,789 --> 01:45:12,500
they are.

2229
01:45:12,500 --> 01:45:20,500
Perfect.

2230
01:45:20,500 --> 01:45:22,500
Good evening. My name's Brian Berger.

2231
01:45:22,500 --> 01:45:25,500
I'm with Berger Engineering, 17103 Preston Road.

2232
01:45:25,500 --> 01:45:28,520
The bike racks will be up underneath the front canopy of

2233
01:45:28,520 --> 01:45:29,500
the building.

2234
01:45:29,500 --> 01:45:31,760
They're not shown on that side plan, but the bike racks

2235
01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:33,500
will be underneath that front canopy.

2236
01:45:33,500 --> 01:45:36,500
-Thank you. -Thank you.

2237
01:45:36,500 --> 01:45:38,500
-Thanks. -Great. Thank you.

2238
01:45:38,500 --> 01:45:40,500
Thank you.

2239
01:45:40,500 --> 01:45:44,590
Our next speaker will be Mark Mitchell, 1215 Hector,

2240
01:45:44,590 --> 01:45:54,500
speaking in opposition.

2241
01:45:54,500 --> 01:45:57,500
I really just have-- I'd like to start with an equation.

2242
01:45:57,500 --> 01:45:59,500
Will you state your name and address, please, for us?

2243
01:45:59,500 --> 01:46:03,500
-Mark Mitchell, 1215 Hector. -Thank you.

2244
01:46:03,500 --> 01:46:09,729
I live just a couple hundred yards from the site to the

2245
01:46:09,729 --> 01:46:10,500
south.

2246
01:46:10,500 --> 01:46:15,279
And I attended the previous meeting they had in the

2247
01:46:15,279 --> 01:46:16,500
neighborhood,

2248
01:46:16,500 --> 01:46:20,500
and I've spoken with Ms. Wyatt a couple of times,

2249
01:46:20,500 --> 01:46:24,279
and I wrote a letter and asked her to pass it on to the

2250
01:46:24,279 --> 01:46:25,500
commission.

2251
01:46:25,500 --> 01:46:30,500
I just would like to know if any of you all have seen that.

2252
01:46:30,500 --> 01:46:35,279
Okay. Well, that's all I need to know, because all my

2253
01:46:35,279 --> 01:46:36,500
concerns are in there.

2254
01:46:36,500 --> 01:46:39,500
So thank you.

2255
01:46:39,500 --> 01:46:41,500
I have a question for you, sir.

2256
01:46:41,500 --> 01:46:42,500
Commissioner Tyler.

2257
01:46:42,500 --> 01:46:43,500
Thank you, Chair.

2258
01:46:43,500 --> 01:46:47,770
So Mr. Mitchell, I noticed in your letter you said-- I'm

2259
01:46:47,770 --> 01:46:49,500
trying to find the exact sentence.

2260
01:46:49,500 --> 01:46:52,340
You said basically that you know that this is going to

2261
01:46:52,340 --> 01:46:53,500
develop commercial,

2262
01:46:53,500 --> 01:46:56,060
but you didn't feel that this was an appropriate type of

2263
01:46:56,060 --> 01:46:57,500
commercial development.

2264
01:46:57,500 --> 01:47:01,500
What would be a better one for this quarter?

2265
01:47:01,500 --> 01:47:05,500
I think I gave a couple of examples there in the letter.

2266
01:47:05,500 --> 01:47:17,029
Just to-- in general, a business which has less traffic and

2267
01:47:17,029 --> 01:47:21,500
not open until 9 at night.

2268
01:47:21,500 --> 01:47:25,909
So something like an office that closes at 6 p.m. or doctor

2269
01:47:25,909 --> 01:47:26,500
's office?

2270
01:47:26,500 --> 01:47:30,710
Yeah. One example I stated in there was, you know, like the

2271
01:47:30,710 --> 01:47:31,500
paint store

2272
01:47:31,500 --> 01:47:33,500
that's a couple hundred yards down the street.

2273
01:47:33,500 --> 01:47:38,810
That's a-- you know, they don't have 80 parking spaces, and

2274
01:47:38,810 --> 01:47:40,500
they close at 6.

2275
01:47:40,500 --> 01:47:44,720
So I just think that there's going to be an awful lot of

2276
01:47:44,720 --> 01:47:46,500
traffic and activity

2277
01:47:46,500 --> 01:47:50,500
with something like a grocery store.

2278
01:47:50,500 --> 01:47:52,500
Thank you for the clarification.

2279
01:47:52,500 --> 01:47:54,069
I actually didn't see the reference to the paint store, so

2280
01:47:54,069 --> 01:47:54,500
thank you.

2281
01:47:54,500 --> 01:47:55,500
You see it now?

2282
01:47:55,500 --> 01:47:56,500
I do, yeah.

2283
01:47:56,500 --> 01:47:58,500
Okay. All right.

2284
01:47:58,500 --> 01:47:59,500
Thank you, sir.

2285
01:47:59,500 --> 01:48:04,500
Appreciate your comments.

2286
01:48:04,500 --> 01:48:09,500
Next speaker will be Jesse Davis at 1228.

2287
01:48:09,500 --> 01:48:15,500
Hector looks like speaking in support.

2288
01:48:15,500 --> 01:48:18,500
Hi, I'm Jesse, Jesse Davis at 1228, Hector.

2289
01:48:18,500 --> 01:48:21,500
I checked the support box because there are only two boxes,

2290
01:48:21,500 --> 01:48:23,640
but I want to explain a little bit of my thought process in

2291
01:48:23,640 --> 01:48:24,500
getting there

2292
01:48:24,500 --> 01:48:27,130
because we spent a lot of time as a neighborhood talking

2293
01:48:27,130 --> 01:48:28,500
about this lot.

2294
01:48:28,500 --> 01:48:30,500
Some of the commissioners know the history there,

2295
01:48:30,500 --> 01:48:33,500
what this lot was intended to be developed as,

2296
01:48:33,500 --> 01:48:36,720
when the houses were built years ago, when the street was

2297
01:48:36,720 --> 01:48:37,500
platted.

2298
01:48:37,500 --> 01:48:39,500
It was originally going to be a church.

2299
01:48:39,500 --> 01:48:41,550
There's going to be another couple different kinds of

2300
01:48:41,550 --> 01:48:42,500
community building.

2301
01:48:42,500 --> 01:48:46,500
The last thing we had was a proposal to build a Burger King

2302
01:48:46,500 --> 01:48:48,500
and a Popeyes there,

2303
01:48:48,500 --> 01:48:51,149
and we all saw very easily that that was not appropriate

2304
01:48:51,149 --> 01:48:52,500
for our neighborhood.

2305
01:48:52,500 --> 01:48:56,500
Now, as you look at this proposal for a grocery store,

2306
01:48:56,500 --> 01:49:00,130
there was a time in our city's history where neighborhood

2307
01:49:00,130 --> 01:49:01,500
grocery stores were all over the place.

2308
01:49:01,500 --> 01:49:03,789
Itty bitty little things, you get your dry goods or

2309
01:49:03,789 --> 01:49:04,500
whatever.

2310
01:49:04,500 --> 01:49:07,170
The Art Alley building, now Vintage Blue, was a grocery

2311
01:49:07,170 --> 01:49:08,500
store right in the middle of the neighborhood.

2312
01:49:08,500 --> 01:49:10,970
That's not really appropriate to the way that we shop for

2313
01:49:10,970 --> 01:49:13,500
groceries and the way we live now.

2314
01:49:13,500 --> 01:49:17,500
That's the opposition part of what my neighbors, I think,

2315
01:49:17,500 --> 01:49:18,500
are saying.

2316
01:49:18,500 --> 01:49:23,170
The things I agree with my neighbors about, Bridget is my

2317
01:49:23,170 --> 01:49:24,500
neighbor right next door,

2318
01:49:24,500 --> 01:49:28,760
right across the street from me, and I really do agree with

2319
01:49:28,760 --> 01:49:30,500
their concerns about traffic.

2320
01:49:30,500 --> 01:49:33,500
I think Ector is going to be where that traffic goes.

2321
01:49:33,500 --> 01:49:35,500
I think University, even when it's finished,

2322
01:49:35,500 --> 01:49:38,100
is not going to be able to handle the kind of traffic that

2323
01:49:38,100 --> 01:49:39,500
this side is going to see.

2324
01:49:39,500 --> 01:49:41,920
You don't even have the parking lot buffer like you do with

2325
01:49:41,920 --> 01:49:43,500
Albertsons a little further down,

2326
01:49:43,500 --> 01:49:46,210
and you certainly don't have next-door Albertsons

2327
01:49:46,210 --> 01:49:47,500
residential homes.

2328
01:49:47,500 --> 01:49:50,909
Here's the support part. Here's the reason why I checked

2329
01:49:50,909 --> 01:49:51,500
that box.

2330
01:49:51,500 --> 01:49:54,859
There is a developer entitled by right in this zoning to

2331
01:49:54,859 --> 01:49:56,500
build a grocery store.

2332
01:49:56,500 --> 01:49:59,500
They are not entitled to do it in quite this way,

2333
01:49:59,500 --> 01:50:02,500
but I think it's important that we encourage our developers

2334
01:50:02,500 --> 01:50:05,500
when they meet resistance from the neighborhood.

2335
01:50:05,500 --> 01:50:09,500
These developers behaved in a way 180 degrees differently

2336
01:50:09,500 --> 01:50:11,789
than the guys who wanted to build the Popeyes and the

2337
01:50:11,789 --> 01:50:12,500
Burger King.

2338
01:50:12,500 --> 01:50:15,500
Those people were not concerned with our development code.

2339
01:50:15,500 --> 01:50:17,350
They were not concerned with the people in the neighborhood

2340
01:50:17,350 --> 01:50:17,500
.

2341
01:50:17,500 --> 01:50:20,000
They wanted to build what they wanted to build and do it in

2342
01:50:20,000 --> 01:50:21,500
the way they wanted to do it.

2343
01:50:21,500 --> 01:50:23,619
There are some other people in some other industries I'm

2344
01:50:23,619 --> 01:50:24,500
not going to go into today

2345
01:50:24,500 --> 01:50:28,159
who did the exact same thing and really ran afoul of this

2346
01:50:28,159 --> 01:50:30,500
city by not working with residents

2347
01:50:30,500 --> 01:50:33,489
and found themselves in the news for not working with the

2348
01:50:33,489 --> 01:50:34,500
people of that.

2349
01:50:34,500 --> 01:50:37,500
The only reason I'm checking the support box on this

2350
01:50:37,500 --> 01:50:40,600
is because I want to encourage developers to work with

2351
01:50:40,600 --> 01:50:42,500
neighborhoods in the future.

2352
01:50:42,500 --> 01:50:44,500
They really have done a lot in this ADP.

2353
01:50:44,500 --> 01:50:46,500
You'll see their landscaping is way above requirements.

2354
01:50:46,500 --> 01:50:49,600
You'll see that some of the things they did to address,

2355
01:50:49,600 --> 01:50:51,500
like the impervious services you heard about from Julie,

2356
01:50:51,500 --> 01:50:54,500
they did a lot to address our concerns.

2357
01:50:54,500 --> 01:50:57,810
Really not quite enough and Aldi is not really the neighbor

2358
01:50:57,810 --> 01:50:58,500
that I want.

2359
01:50:58,500 --> 01:51:00,500
That is not the neighbor that I want,

2360
01:51:00,500 --> 01:51:03,680
but I think that they're entitled to build a grocery store

2361
01:51:03,680 --> 01:51:04,500
in this zoning,

2362
01:51:04,500 --> 01:51:06,949
and I think they're doing everything that they can to make

2363
01:51:06,949 --> 01:51:09,500
their business model fit in this spot.

2364
01:51:09,500 --> 01:51:12,520
One thing that was discussed that I'm glad Amber brought up

2365
01:51:12,520 --> 01:51:13,500
was the trucks.

2366
01:51:13,500 --> 01:51:15,500
The way that this site plan...

2367
01:51:15,500 --> 01:51:18,500
Could you put the site plan back up, whoever's running?

2368
01:51:18,500 --> 01:51:20,500
Okay.

2369
01:51:20,500 --> 01:51:23,300
The way the site plan is supposed to work, as we've been

2370
01:51:23,300 --> 01:51:24,500
told by the developer,

2371
01:51:24,500 --> 01:51:26,069
is that these trucks are supposed to come in from

2372
01:51:26,069 --> 01:51:26,500
university,

2373
01:51:26,500 --> 01:51:29,500
because that's their route from their distribution center.

2374
01:51:29,500 --> 01:51:33,449
They are supposed to go out head first into Ector Street

2375
01:51:33,449 --> 01:51:34,500
and come out just a few feet

2376
01:51:34,500 --> 01:51:39,500
and back down to that below grade loading dock.

2377
01:51:39,500 --> 01:51:41,500
If there's any way possible...

2378
01:51:41,500 --> 01:51:43,500
The developer talked about signs.

2379
01:51:43,500 --> 01:51:45,529
I don't think there's anything specifically that can

2380
01:51:45,529 --> 01:51:46,500
address this in an ADP,

2381
01:51:46,500 --> 01:51:49,500
but that is key for the folks in the neighborhood,

2382
01:51:49,500 --> 01:51:53,050
that those trucks aren't rumbling up and down Ector Street

2383
01:51:53,050 --> 01:51:54,500
making deliveries.

2384
01:51:54,500 --> 01:51:57,500
I think though, to your point earlier, Commissioner Beck,

2385
01:51:57,500 --> 01:51:59,500
there is going to be a substantial increase in traffic.

2386
01:51:59,500 --> 01:52:01,500
People are going to want to get to this store,

2387
01:52:01,500 --> 01:52:03,260
and I think they're going to want to get to it from the

2388
01:52:03,260 --> 01:52:03,500
south,

2389
01:52:03,500 --> 01:52:05,500
from the north, from the east and the west.

2390
01:52:05,500 --> 01:52:07,539
I think eventually the city is going to have to put a light

2391
01:52:07,539 --> 01:52:08,500
at Ector Street,

2392
01:52:08,500 --> 01:52:13,500
which is not really the kind of street that we have now.

2393
01:52:13,500 --> 01:52:18,500
Commissioner Beck, any question?

2394
01:52:18,500 --> 01:52:20,840
I don't disagree that there's going to be some increased

2395
01:52:20,840 --> 01:52:21,500
auto traffic,

2396
01:52:21,500 --> 01:52:26,279
but it seems to me that this is an opportunity for the

2397
01:52:26,279 --> 01:52:27,500
neighborhood

2398
01:52:27,500 --> 01:52:29,500
to have something in close proximity to where they live,

2399
01:52:29,500 --> 01:52:31,500
where they can walk and bike.

2400
01:52:31,500 --> 01:52:36,500
University students could go either way on that,

2401
01:52:36,500 --> 01:52:41,500
but I would suspect that there's a propensity now to bike

2402
01:52:41,500 --> 01:52:43,500
in a lot of instances like that.

2403
01:52:43,500 --> 01:52:48,500
So I understand the concern of a neighborhood

2404
01:52:48,500 --> 01:52:52,029
and a type of business to come in that would detract from

2405
01:52:52,029 --> 01:52:52,500
that,

2406
01:52:52,500 --> 01:52:55,729
but of all the businesses that we've dealt with so far and

2407
01:52:55,729 --> 01:52:56,500
everything,

2408
01:52:56,500 --> 01:52:58,890
and as you mentioned, they've been most amenable to the

2409
01:52:58,890 --> 01:53:00,500
concerns of the neighborhood.

2410
01:53:00,500 --> 01:53:02,539
You know, having a grocery store within walking distance,

2411
01:53:02,539 --> 01:53:04,500
anyway, for me personally,

2412
01:53:04,500 --> 01:53:07,500
they just built that new law as TECA down the road for me,

2413
01:53:07,500 --> 01:53:09,500
and it's a big plus for me.

2414
01:53:09,500 --> 01:53:12,489
I enjoy that instead of trying to fight what little traffic

2415
01:53:12,489 --> 01:53:13,500
I have to get to Kroger.

2416
01:53:13,500 --> 01:53:17,500
But I do understand your concern about traffic coming up

2417
01:53:17,500 --> 01:53:17,500
down Ector.

2418
01:53:17,500 --> 01:53:22,050
I'm just thinking that we're probably going to see a good

2419
01:53:22,050 --> 01:53:24,500
deal of pedestrian and biking traffic

2420
01:53:24,500 --> 01:53:26,500
as opposed to auto traffic.

2421
01:53:26,500 --> 01:53:28,960
I think, Commissioner, you make a good point about the

2422
01:53:28,960 --> 01:53:30,500
proximity of --

2423
01:53:30,500 --> 01:53:33,500
one of the problems with the other proposals was that it

2424
01:53:33,500 --> 01:53:33,500
was not good,

2425
01:53:33,500 --> 01:53:35,500
wholesome food, that we're in the news right now,

2426
01:53:35,500 --> 01:53:37,630
we read a lot about food deserts and getting good, wh

2427
01:53:37,630 --> 01:53:39,500
olesome food, easily accessible.

2428
01:53:39,500 --> 01:53:42,500
This is the opposite of that.

2429
01:53:42,500 --> 01:53:45,029
In fact, my wife and I have had conversations about whether

2430
01:53:45,029 --> 01:53:46,500
I'm allowed to take the carts back

2431
01:53:46,500 --> 01:53:49,060
across the street to our house, or if I have to load the

2432
01:53:49,060 --> 01:53:50,500
car up and drive back to our house.

2433
01:53:50,500 --> 01:53:52,930
She says I'm not allowed to take the carts across the

2434
01:53:52,930 --> 01:53:53,500
street.

2435
01:53:53,500 --> 01:53:57,329
To your point about traffic, though, you have to remember

2436
01:53:57,329 --> 01:53:58,500
all the houses behind us.

2437
01:53:58,500 --> 01:54:00,500
Ector Street's a straight shot.

2438
01:54:00,500 --> 01:54:03,680
It's easy to think of it as just that one neighborhood, but

2439
01:54:03,680 --> 01:54:04,500
it is a collector.

2440
01:54:04,500 --> 01:54:08,140
Everything from Malone over, and people cutting over on Mal

2441
01:54:08,140 --> 01:54:08,500
one,

2442
01:54:08,500 --> 01:54:11,890
cutting over on Emory, coming right back by my corner, and

2443
01:54:11,890 --> 01:54:13,500
coming into the Aldi.

2444
01:54:13,500 --> 01:54:16,210
You have to remember all the folks on Stan Lee on over to E

2445
01:54:16,210 --> 01:54:16,500
ctor,

2446
01:54:16,500 --> 01:54:19,899
and remember there is a major development, partially

2447
01:54:19,899 --> 01:54:22,500
residential, going in just to our west.

2448
01:54:22,500 --> 01:54:25,109
There will be a substantial amount of traffic, and those

2449
01:54:25,109 --> 01:54:26,500
folks in the eventual

2450
01:54:26,500 --> 01:54:29,020
mixed-use development, Razor Ranch, they're not going to

2451
01:54:29,020 --> 01:54:29,500
want to come down all the way to university

2452
01:54:29,500 --> 01:54:32,859
through their development, turn on university, and come up

2453
01:54:32,859 --> 01:54:33,500
into this Aldi.

2454
01:54:33,500 --> 01:54:35,899
They're going to come through our neighborhood, down

2455
01:54:35,899 --> 01:54:36,500
scripture.

2456
01:54:36,500 --> 01:54:40,029
So to the extent an ADP can address traffic, or to the

2457
01:54:40,029 --> 01:54:41,500
extent that you hear our neighborhood

2458
01:54:41,500 --> 01:54:44,369
in front of you again as part of a small area plan or

2459
01:54:44,369 --> 01:54:45,500
something similar,

2460
01:54:45,500 --> 01:54:47,979
and you start hearing from us more often on traffic, please

2461
01:54:47,979 --> 01:54:49,500
remember those things,

2462
01:54:49,500 --> 01:54:52,500
that we are not just the straight shot, like Brigid said,

2463
01:54:52,500 --> 01:54:53,500
painted like a highway,

2464
01:54:53,500 --> 01:54:55,500
that there's a lot more going on there.

2465
01:54:55,500 --> 01:55:00,189
But don't you think residents over in Razor Ranch are more

2466
01:55:00,189 --> 01:55:01,500
apt to shop Winko,

2467
01:55:01,500 --> 01:55:03,500
and even Walmart, they're closer?

2468
01:55:03,500 --> 01:55:05,500
Aldi doesn't think so.

2469
01:55:05,500 --> 01:55:08,500
Anybody else?

2470
01:55:08,500 --> 01:55:10,500
Yes, a couple more questions.

2471
01:55:10,500 --> 01:55:11,500
Commissioner Hespeth.

2472
01:55:11,500 --> 01:55:15,500
Well, so I appreciate your insight, and it's well laid out.

2473
01:55:15,500 --> 01:55:19,640
So I want to ask you, I have a question, two questions and

2474
01:55:19,640 --> 01:55:20,500
a point.

2475
01:55:20,500 --> 01:55:28,500
So my point is, I think the benefit here is that Aldi is,

2476
01:55:28,500 --> 01:55:28,500
like you said,

2477
01:55:28,500 --> 01:55:31,100
a good neighbor on this project, in addition to they have

2478
01:55:31,100 --> 01:55:31,500
the warehouse,

2479
01:55:31,500 --> 01:55:33,500
and that's expanding, growing.

2480
01:55:33,500 --> 01:55:36,130
So they're invested in the city, so I think they're

2481
01:55:36,130 --> 01:55:38,500
invested in being a good neighbor,

2482
01:55:38,500 --> 01:55:42,750
multifaceted, and I see the location on Luke 288, and it

2483
01:55:42,750 --> 01:55:43,500
does very well.

2484
01:55:43,500 --> 01:55:48,800
My question is, my two questions, one is, how many, I don't

2485
01:55:48,800 --> 01:55:49,500
know the schematic,

2486
01:55:49,500 --> 01:55:51,500
but I know the schematics of that neighborhood.

2487
01:55:51,500 --> 01:55:55,500
So how many people are, is it 80% owned, 20% rentals?

2488
01:55:55,500 --> 01:55:57,500
What is your feel for that?

2489
01:55:57,500 --> 01:56:01,029
I think conservatively on Ector Street, I think it's about

2490
01:56:01,029 --> 01:56:01,500
70/30,

2491
01:56:01,500 --> 01:56:04,500
70% owner occupied, about 30% rental.

2492
01:56:04,500 --> 01:56:06,949
I think you start going further out from there, it's hard

2493
01:56:06,949 --> 01:56:07,500
to tell.

2494
01:56:07,500 --> 01:56:12,500
On the streets, the streets between Ector and Bonnie Bray,

2495
01:56:12,500 --> 01:56:14,500
and maybe some of my neighbors can speak better to this,

2496
01:56:14,500 --> 01:56:18,500
I think you're closer to like a 60/40 owner occupied.

2497
01:56:18,500 --> 01:56:22,630
And as you go towards Malone, you're probably about 50/50,

2498
01:56:22,630 --> 01:56:23,500
depending on,

2499
01:56:23,500 --> 01:56:26,109
now remember you've got a big split between the smaller

2500
01:56:26,109 --> 01:56:27,500
houses to the south in that block,

2501
01:56:27,500 --> 01:56:31,500
and then you've got the owner occupied houses on Emory,

2502
01:56:31,500 --> 01:56:34,500
Westchester, Crescent, Cordell.

2503
01:56:34,500 --> 01:56:35,500
Okay.

2504
01:56:35,500 --> 01:56:38,500
And then lastly, have you considered the fact though that

2505
01:56:38,500 --> 01:56:41,500
Bonnie Bray will be almost doubled in size?

2506
01:56:41,500 --> 01:56:43,500
I mean, it is going to be significant.

2507
01:56:43,500 --> 01:56:46,390
I think that lowers, at least I think those that are

2508
01:56:46,390 --> 01:56:49,500
familiar with Denton may use that as a cut through.

2509
01:56:49,500 --> 01:56:54,500
But I think the traffic on that road becomes less inviting

2510
01:56:54,500 --> 01:56:57,500
when university is done and Bonnie Bray is done.

2511
01:56:57,500 --> 01:56:59,500
I mean, again, Bonnie Bray twice the size.

2512
01:56:59,500 --> 01:57:04,500
There's no signal lights from university to I-35, right?

2513
01:57:04,500 --> 01:57:05,500
I mean, no, at Oak.

2514
01:57:05,500 --> 01:57:06,500
Yeah.

2515
01:57:06,500 --> 01:57:08,500
So, I mean, it's a pretty straight shot.

2516
01:57:08,500 --> 01:57:12,350
If it's widened substantially, I think it'll eat a lot of

2517
01:57:12,350 --> 01:57:13,500
the traffic.

2518
01:57:13,500 --> 01:57:16,680
It just, you know, if I'm just understanding the area as

2519
01:57:16,680 --> 01:57:17,500
well as I do.

2520
01:57:17,500 --> 01:57:20,500
So I think it'll fix some of that.

2521
01:57:20,500 --> 01:57:24,029
I think your concerns are legitimate on the 18-wheelers and

2522
01:57:24,029 --> 01:57:24,500
the path,

2523
01:57:24,500 --> 01:57:27,500
and that they don't get lazy and they follow instructions.

2524
01:57:27,500 --> 01:57:30,760
But I think some of the just the pass through traffic, it

2525
01:57:30,760 --> 01:57:34,500
almost becomes, unless you're turning right on university,

2526
01:57:34,500 --> 01:57:38,510
it comes to make a left on university from actor would be a

2527
01:57:38,510 --> 01:57:39,500
nightmare, you know.

2528
01:57:39,500 --> 01:57:42,500
And so I think that'll fix a lot of it.

2529
01:57:42,500 --> 01:57:45,470
I think you're right to an extent, however, if you ever sat

2530
01:57:45,470 --> 01:57:49,500
at that light northbound on Bonnie Bray and stacked back 20

2531
01:57:49,500 --> 01:57:50,500
or 30 cars,

2532
01:57:50,500 --> 01:57:52,850
you turn onto Emory as soon as you can because now that Em

2533
01:57:52,850 --> 01:57:54,500
ory is open, it didn't used to be.

2534
01:57:54,500 --> 01:57:56,500
Twenty years ago, that was, there was a barrier there.

2535
01:57:56,500 --> 01:58:00,920
You can now take Emory all the way through to Malone, and

2536
01:58:00,920 --> 01:58:02,500
people do.

2537
01:58:02,500 --> 01:58:06,079
The people, the elementary school traffic, the people go

2538
01:58:06,079 --> 01:58:09,130
into other businesses there, the Piccadilly Square business

2539
01:58:09,130 --> 01:58:10,500
there.

2540
01:58:10,500 --> 01:58:12,500
And people use Emory quite a bit now.

2541
01:58:12,500 --> 01:58:14,970
And since there's been the construction on university, that

2542
01:58:14,970 --> 01:58:16,500
's become kind of a thoroughfare.

2543
01:58:16,500 --> 01:58:18,630
So I think there still will be substantial traffic coming

2544
01:58:18,630 --> 01:58:19,500
off of Bonnie Bray.

2545
01:58:19,500 --> 01:58:22,729
They may take Bonnie Bray north as far as Emory, but they

2546
01:58:22,729 --> 01:58:24,800
're going to come down Emory through our neighborhood behind

2547
01:58:24,800 --> 01:58:26,500
the funeral home and the paint store.

2548
01:58:26,500 --> 01:58:29,340
They're going to take a left onto Ector and turn in that E

2549
01:58:29,340 --> 01:58:32,300
ctor entrance, and then they're going to leave again on E

2550
01:58:32,300 --> 01:58:35,500
ctor to go back south wherever they came from.

2551
01:58:35,500 --> 01:58:39,500
So they may end up on Bonnie Bray for part of their trip.

2552
01:58:39,500 --> 01:58:41,500
They're going to end it on Ector Street, Emory Street.

2553
01:58:41,500 --> 01:58:42,500
Got it.

2554
01:58:42,500 --> 01:58:44,500
More question for you.

2555
01:58:44,500 --> 01:58:45,500
Commissioner Ellis.

2556
01:58:45,500 --> 01:58:46,500
Thank you, Chair.

2557
01:58:46,500 --> 01:58:48,500
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

2558
01:58:48,500 --> 01:58:50,500
My question is probably more for staff.

2559
01:58:50,500 --> 01:58:55,939
Since this was all done before my time on commission, was

2560
01:58:55,939 --> 01:59:00,500
there a traffic impact study done for Ector?

2561
01:59:00,500 --> 01:59:03,500
Project specific or just generally for Ector?

2562
01:59:03,500 --> 01:59:05,500
Specific for the Aldi project.

2563
01:59:05,500 --> 01:59:06,500
For the Aldi project?

2564
01:59:06,500 --> 01:59:12,500
I don't believe one was done for the Aldi project.

2565
01:59:12,500 --> 01:59:15,500
The applicant can speak to that.

2566
01:59:15,500 --> 01:59:22,500
The applicant, please.

2567
01:59:22,500 --> 01:59:24,500
There was a traffic study completed for Aldi.

2568
01:59:24,500 --> 01:59:27,819
I don't know if it went back and studied at Ector further

2569
01:59:27,819 --> 01:59:28,500
south.

2570
01:59:28,500 --> 01:59:31,390
I know we did a study for the intersection at Ector and

2571
01:59:31,390 --> 01:59:34,670
University and the impacts of our drive approaches, but I

2572
01:59:34,670 --> 01:59:36,500
don't believe we went back into the neighborhood.

2573
01:59:36,500 --> 01:59:39,229
Because when you do a traffic analysis and you look at a

2574
01:59:39,229 --> 01:59:41,680
commercial driveway, there's going to be so many -- when

2575
01:59:41,680 --> 01:59:44,500
you run the numbers, there are going to be so few turns

2576
01:59:44,500 --> 01:59:44,500
going right.

2577
01:59:44,500 --> 01:59:47,430
That it doesn't really warrant that study because those

2578
01:59:47,430 --> 01:59:50,350
numbers are so small, everyone is going back to the main

2579
01:59:50,350 --> 01:59:51,500
collector road.

2580
01:59:51,500 --> 01:59:58,439
But we did do a study and engineering has reviewed it and

2581
01:59:58,439 --> 02:00:00,500
approved it.

2582
02:00:00,500 --> 02:00:03,500
Commissioner Huthbist, the button is still not working.

2583
02:00:03,500 --> 02:00:04,500
Way big.

2584
02:00:04,500 --> 02:00:10,670
To Commissioner Brigham's point, have you looked at landsca

2585
02:00:10,670 --> 02:00:16,300
ping, can you expound on what your thoughts are, what the

2586
02:00:16,300 --> 02:00:17,500
plan is?

2587
02:00:17,500 --> 02:00:21,500
There is Bermuda grass, there is sod, but in a lot of the

2588
02:00:21,500 --> 02:00:25,449
landscape areas we did do a lot of zero scape and drought

2589
02:00:25,449 --> 02:00:28,500
tolerant plants to decrease the need for irrigation.

2590
02:00:28,500 --> 02:00:31,380
So we have kind of done a combination of those types of

2591
02:00:31,380 --> 02:00:34,500
materials, but there is a lot of zero scape in there.

2592
02:00:34,500 --> 02:00:35,500
Okay. Thank you.

2593
02:00:35,500 --> 02:00:36,500
You're welcome.

2594
02:00:36,500 --> 02:00:37,500
Another question for you. Commissioner Babbitt.

2595
02:00:37,500 --> 02:00:38,500
Thank you, Chair.

2596
02:00:38,500 --> 02:00:39,500
And I'm sorry, what was your name again?

2597
02:00:39,500 --> 02:00:40,500
My name is Brian Berger.

2598
02:00:40,500 --> 02:00:42,500
Brian, thank you, Brian.

2599
02:00:42,500 --> 02:00:45,500
Just while you're up here, two quick questions.

2600
02:00:45,500 --> 02:00:48,159
What are the signage dimensions for that sign you're going

2601
02:00:48,159 --> 02:00:49,500
to put out on University?

2602
02:00:49,500 --> 02:00:51,500
Are we looking at something?

2603
02:00:51,500 --> 02:00:53,500
No, it will be a monument sign.

2604
02:00:53,500 --> 02:00:55,500
We do not have the exact size yet.

2605
02:00:55,500 --> 02:00:57,500
We're not that far along.

2606
02:00:57,500 --> 02:00:59,500
We'll probably have that here in the next few weeks.

2607
02:00:59,500 --> 02:01:02,000
Are we looking at something like maybe six foot by three

2608
02:01:02,000 --> 02:01:03,500
foot or something like that?

2609
02:01:03,500 --> 02:01:05,500
It will be whatever is allowed by code.

2610
02:01:05,500 --> 02:01:08,390
Probably eight foot tall or six foot tall, whatever is

2611
02:01:08,390 --> 02:01:09,500
allowed by code.

2612
02:01:09,500 --> 02:01:10,500
Okay.

2613
02:01:10,500 --> 02:01:14,170
And then the question I asked after, what determine where

2614
02:01:14,170 --> 02:01:18,090
the previous parking places you're going to, what determine

2615
02:01:18,090 --> 02:01:19,500
those locations?

2616
02:01:19,500 --> 02:01:23,640
The problem we have with pervious pavement is it's not as

2617
02:01:23,640 --> 02:01:26,500
durable as impermeable concrete.

2618
02:01:26,500 --> 02:01:29,770
So the spaces I selected, and it was solely based on my

2619
02:01:29,770 --> 02:01:32,829
opinion, was as far away from the front door as possible so

2620
02:01:32,829 --> 02:01:35,979
that they will take the least amount of traffic and wear

2621
02:01:35,979 --> 02:01:38,500
and tear and maybe they'll hold up a little bit better.

2622
02:01:38,500 --> 02:01:41,319
It has nothing to do with how much water will run across or

2623
02:01:41,319 --> 02:01:42,500
won't run across it.

2624
02:01:42,500 --> 02:01:44,869
I just selected the spots that were furthest away from the

2625
02:01:44,869 --> 02:01:45,500
front door.

2626
02:01:45,500 --> 02:01:46,500
Okay.

2627
02:01:46,500 --> 02:01:47,500
Thank you.

2628
02:01:47,500 --> 02:01:48,500
I'll have you here.

2629
02:01:48,500 --> 02:01:49,500
I'm going to ask you a question.

2630
02:01:49,500 --> 02:01:53,659
We've got some conditions when we get down to looking for a

2631
02:01:53,659 --> 02:01:54,500
motion.

2632
02:01:54,500 --> 02:01:57,310
Were there any questions on any of those or is the

2633
02:01:57,310 --> 02:02:00,500
applicant okay with the conditions for approval?

2634
02:02:00,500 --> 02:02:02,500
No, I think we're fine with all the conditions.

2635
02:02:02,500 --> 02:02:03,500
Fine with all of them.

2636
02:02:03,500 --> 02:02:04,500
Yes, sir.

2637
02:02:04,500 --> 02:02:05,500
Thank you for the clarification on that.

2638
02:02:05,500 --> 02:02:07,500
I have no other questions for you.

2639
02:02:07,500 --> 02:02:08,500
Thank you.

2640
02:02:08,500 --> 02:02:09,500
All right.

2641
02:02:09,500 --> 02:02:10,500
Thank you.

2642
02:02:10,500 --> 02:02:12,500
I do have one other card.

2643
02:02:12,500 --> 02:02:16,979
Michael Hinnan, he did not wish to speak at 724 Thomas

2644
02:02:16,979 --> 02:02:20,500
Street, and he was in support of this item.

2645
02:02:20,500 --> 02:02:23,789
Again, this is not a public hearing, but if you would like

2646
02:02:23,789 --> 02:02:25,500
to speak, it's an individual consideration item.

2647
02:02:25,500 --> 02:02:28,220
You're welcome to come up and speak on this item, and then

2648
02:02:28,220 --> 02:02:29,500
please fill out a card.

2649
02:02:29,500 --> 02:02:32,500
So kind of a final invitation.

2650
02:02:32,500 --> 02:02:34,500
Again, it's not a public hearing, so no.

2651
02:02:34,500 --> 02:02:37,500
[inaudible]

2652
02:02:37,500 --> 02:02:39,500
Let me ask for clarification on rules from staff.

2653
02:02:39,500 --> 02:02:43,500
I think there's just one opportunity to speak.

2654
02:02:43,500 --> 02:02:45,500
Sorry, we have one opportunity.

2655
02:02:45,500 --> 02:02:46,500
Someone sitting next to me.

2656
02:02:46,500 --> 02:02:50,500
[inaudible]

2657
02:02:50,500 --> 02:02:53,449
Someone sitting next to you is welcome to come speak if

2658
02:02:53,449 --> 02:02:55,500
they'd like to share your points.

2659
02:02:55,500 --> 02:02:57,500
We have a question.

2660
02:02:57,500 --> 02:02:58,500
Oh, you have a question.

2661
02:02:58,500 --> 02:02:59,500
That's another solution.

2662
02:02:59,500 --> 02:03:06,500
Commissioner Hussbuth.

2663
02:03:06,500 --> 02:03:09,500
Did you happen to send a letter with your concerns?

2664
02:03:09,500 --> 02:03:12,300
I sent my letter almost four months ago, and I understood

2665
02:03:12,300 --> 02:03:15,310
it was printed out today when I prompted and asked about it

2666
02:03:15,310 --> 02:03:15,500
.

2667
02:03:15,500 --> 02:03:17,500
I do hope that you have that.

2668
02:03:17,500 --> 02:03:20,880
But Mike, I just wanted to add an additional comment that

2669
02:03:20,880 --> 02:03:24,500
Aldi presented this not as a little neighborhood grocery

2670
02:03:24,500 --> 02:03:24,500
store,

2671
02:03:24,500 --> 02:03:28,710
but as a flagship store that they advised us they thought

2672
02:03:28,710 --> 02:03:32,500
would bring business from Oklahoma and from all over the

2673
02:03:32,500 --> 02:03:32,500
place

2674
02:03:32,500 --> 02:03:35,489
that employees at other Aldi stores would come to this

2675
02:03:35,489 --> 02:03:37,500
store to see how things are done.

2676
02:03:37,500 --> 02:03:40,060
So it's possible and likely that there will be more traffic

2677
02:03:40,060 --> 02:03:42,500
at this store than there is at the store on the loop.

2678
02:03:42,500 --> 02:03:43,500
That was all I had to add.

2679
02:03:43,500 --> 02:03:44,500
Thank you.

2680
02:03:44,500 --> 02:03:49,500
Thank you very much.

2681
02:03:49,500 --> 02:03:51,500
I see no other cards to speak.

2682
02:03:51,500 --> 02:03:54,500
So again, this is an item for individual consideration.

2683
02:03:54,500 --> 02:03:59,279
So I'm going to turn back to commissioners for a motion or

2684
02:03:59,279 --> 02:04:01,500
discussion amongst us.

2685
02:04:01,500 --> 02:04:03,500
Commissioner Taylor.

2686
02:04:03,500 --> 02:04:05,500
Thank you, Chair.

2687
02:04:05,500 --> 02:04:08,939
So I believe Ms. Corbett brought up some really valid

2688
02:04:08,939 --> 02:04:12,500
points regarding traffic flow and traffic calming.

2689
02:04:12,500 --> 02:04:16,300
I've had my own disagreements with city engineering about

2690
02:04:16,300 --> 02:04:17,500
traffic calming.

2691
02:04:17,500 --> 02:04:21,939
And I think Ector Street is a perfect example of a place

2692
02:04:21,939 --> 02:04:25,850
where not using speed bumps, but using road narrowing

2693
02:04:25,850 --> 02:04:26,500
techniques.

2694
02:04:26,500 --> 02:04:30,609
If the intersection comes down to a 20-foot wide gap with

2695
02:04:30,609 --> 02:04:34,500
trees on little islands, it dramatically slows down speed.

2696
02:04:34,500 --> 02:04:37,069
You're not going to go through those intersections that don

2697
02:04:37,069 --> 02:04:39,500
't have stop signs at 40 or 45 miles an hour.

2698
02:04:39,500 --> 02:04:41,500
You're going to slow down to 25 miles an hour.

2699
02:04:41,500 --> 02:04:44,159
It provides a little cover for people who are walking their

2700
02:04:44,159 --> 02:04:47,500
dog or pushing a stroller or riding their bicycle because

2701
02:04:47,500 --> 02:04:51,609
people don't tend to wander into that open, wide open 15 or

2702
02:04:51,609 --> 02:04:53,500
20 feet of space that they have.

2703
02:04:53,500 --> 02:04:56,600
They know that there's a bump out coming and they stay to

2704
02:04:56,600 --> 02:04:59,500
the middle of the road and leave the edges safe.

2705
02:04:59,500 --> 02:05:03,020
So I personally would like to see that on Ector and several

2706
02:05:03,020 --> 02:05:06,869
other streets, including Windsor and other neighborhoods in

2707
02:05:06,869 --> 02:05:07,500
town.

2708
02:05:07,500 --> 02:05:10,500
It does fall outside of our purview as planning and zoning.

2709
02:05:10,500 --> 02:05:15,010
We really just handle a very specific handful of cases like

2710
02:05:15,010 --> 02:05:17,500
zonings, ADPs, and plats.

2711
02:05:17,500 --> 02:05:21,500
And I know that this isn't the perfect development.

2712
02:05:21,500 --> 02:05:26,500
I strongly opposed the fast food proposals.

2713
02:05:26,500 --> 02:05:28,500
Was that eight months ago?

2714
02:05:28,500 --> 02:05:30,500
I believe in January or so.

2715
02:05:30,500 --> 02:05:32,750
Because I thought that that was an encroachment on the

2716
02:05:32,750 --> 02:05:33,500
neighborhood.

2717
02:05:33,500 --> 02:05:36,119
This converting to a commercial zoning right there at the

2718
02:05:36,119 --> 02:05:37,500
corner.

2719
02:05:37,500 --> 02:05:42,020
Open till 2 a.m. or later, you know, driveway directly

2720
02:05:42,020 --> 02:05:44,500
across from a private residences driveway that's open late.

2721
02:05:44,500 --> 02:05:48,500
And I don't think that this Aldi is perfect here.

2722
02:05:48,500 --> 02:05:50,500
But I do think it will service the neighborhood.

2723
02:05:50,500 --> 02:05:53,729
I think it will provide a walkable destination within a

2724
02:05:53,729 --> 02:05:55,500
four or five block radius.

2725
02:05:55,500 --> 02:06:00,380
And I think it will also provide a nice drivable and bicycl

2726
02:06:00,380 --> 02:06:05,500
able destination to the to the immediate neighborhood.

2727
02:06:05,500 --> 02:06:09,539
And the I think most traffic that isn't somewhere between

2728
02:06:09,539 --> 02:06:13,500
Bonnie Bray and Malone is going to take university.

2729
02:06:13,500 --> 02:06:16,029
There aren't any streets that go directly all the way

2730
02:06:16,029 --> 02:06:20,960
through without lots of stop signs and ditches across them

2731
02:06:20,960 --> 02:06:26,500
like Crescent that beyond Malone and Bonnie Bray.

2732
02:06:26,500 --> 02:06:30,500
So I wish we could address the traffic situation more.

2733
02:06:30,500 --> 02:06:32,500
But like I said, we can't.

2734
02:06:32,500 --> 02:06:36,300
We the neighborhood can approach engineering and see about

2735
02:06:36,300 --> 02:06:37,500
those changes.

2736
02:06:37,500 --> 02:06:41,210
But for these reasons, I think Aldi is a good enough option

2737
02:06:41,210 --> 02:06:41,500
.

2738
02:06:41,500 --> 02:06:45,500
I think it's it's it meets the needs of the neighborhood.

2739
02:06:45,500 --> 02:06:49,500
It doesn't provide a tremendous burden to the neighborhood.

2740
02:06:49,500 --> 02:06:51,500
It meets the 80.

2741
02:06:51,500 --> 02:06:54,720
This ADP is tiny compared to a rezoning that allows much

2742
02:06:54,720 --> 02:06:58,149
higher densities or late night uses or alcohol to be served

2743
02:06:58,149 --> 02:06:59,500
or things like that.

2744
02:06:59,500 --> 02:07:03,729
So for those reasons, I move approval with staff's

2745
02:07:03,729 --> 02:07:05,500
recommendations.

2746
02:07:05,500 --> 02:07:07,500
Commissioner Beck. Thank you, Chair.

2747
02:07:07,500 --> 02:07:11,899
And I'd just like to echo most of what Commissioner Taylor

2748
02:07:11,899 --> 02:07:16,500
said to change is inevitable no matter what happens.

2749
02:07:16,500 --> 02:07:18,850
And one thing that's definitely going to change with the

2750
02:07:18,850 --> 02:07:21,300
city didn't we're going to grow population is going to grow

2751
02:07:21,300 --> 02:07:21,500
.

2752
02:07:21,500 --> 02:07:24,489
Traffic is going to increase one way or the other, whether

2753
02:07:24,489 --> 02:07:26,500
there's an Aldi store there or not.

2754
02:07:26,500 --> 02:07:28,420
I am very sympathetic to the fact that this is a grand old

2755
02:07:28,420 --> 02:07:29,500
neighborhood over there.

2756
02:07:29,500 --> 02:07:31,500
I love it myself.

2757
02:07:31,500 --> 02:07:34,859
But Hector is even though it's a collector's street, it's

2758
02:07:34,859 --> 02:07:39,130
it's it's it's it collects to it connects to a lot of other

2759
02:07:39,130 --> 02:07:40,500
things, too.

2760
02:07:40,500 --> 02:07:46,500
My hope and belief is that we especially if we do some

2761
02:07:46,500 --> 02:07:50,500
markings on the street to narrow the lanes and open it up

2762
02:07:50,500 --> 02:07:52,500
for bicycling,

2763
02:07:52,500 --> 02:07:58,020
that that will not only slow the traffic down, but that

2764
02:07:58,020 --> 02:08:03,500
should generate a lot of the customer base for Aldi.

2765
02:08:03,500 --> 02:08:07,659
It's kind of hard to expect the ideal situation to come

2766
02:08:07,659 --> 02:08:08,500
along.

2767
02:08:08,500 --> 02:08:10,500
And it may not or may not for a long time.

2768
02:08:10,500 --> 02:08:14,260
And in the meantime, the property owner has to deal with

2769
02:08:14,260 --> 02:08:17,609
that and pay taxes on it while it sits there and does

2770
02:08:17,609 --> 02:08:18,500
nothing.

2771
02:08:18,500 --> 02:08:26,380
So considering all that, I am for this project to second

2772
02:08:26,380 --> 02:08:28,500
the motion.

2773
02:08:28,500 --> 02:08:29,500
OK, thank you.

2774
02:08:29,500 --> 02:08:32,500
We have a first and a second.

2775
02:08:32,500 --> 02:08:37,500
Any discussion?

2776
02:08:37,500 --> 02:08:38,500
Seeing none, just clarification.

2777
02:08:38,500 --> 02:08:42,619
We have a first and a second for approval with all the

2778
02:08:42,619 --> 02:08:47,520
conditions listed in our backup agenda, which will be items

2779
02:08:47,520 --> 02:08:50,500
a through I.

2780
02:08:50,500 --> 02:08:53,500
So with that, I will call for a vote on the board.

2781
02:09:08,500 --> 02:09:15,500
Motion carries seven zero.

2782
02:09:15,500 --> 02:09:16,500
Thank you.

2783
02:09:16,500 --> 02:09:20,569
That will move us to our public hearing section of our

2784
02:09:20,569 --> 02:09:22,500
agenda this evening.

2785
02:09:22,500 --> 02:09:24,920
The first item that we're going to have before us this

2786
02:09:24,920 --> 02:09:28,500
evening, I'm going to open the public hearing for item A,

2787
02:09:28,500 --> 02:09:32,500
which is Z 16 dash zero zero one six.

2788
02:09:32,500 --> 02:09:40,500
And I'll call on Judy White.

2789
02:09:40,500 --> 02:09:43,109
Would you like for me to go through the presentation again

2790
02:09:43,109 --> 02:09:48,500
or just the.

2791
02:09:48,500 --> 02:09:50,500
Just the summary.

2792
02:09:50,500 --> 02:09:53,779
I did the summary, if you don't mind, on the current zoning

2793
02:09:53,779 --> 02:09:55,500
and what's being proposed.

2794
02:09:55,500 --> 02:09:57,260
And then we'll I'm sure have lots of questions to go from

2795
02:09:57,260 --> 02:09:57,500
there.

2796
02:09:57,500 --> 02:09:58,500
Thank you.

2797
02:09:58,500 --> 02:09:59,500
Sure.

2798
02:09:59,500 --> 02:10:01,500
All right.

2799
02:10:01,500 --> 02:10:05,960
So the request before you or I'm sorry, this is Z 16 16

2800
02:10:05,960 --> 02:10:08,500
that ISD services, student services.

2801
02:10:08,500 --> 02:10:14,319
The request before you is to consider a rezoning from NR

2802
02:10:14,319 --> 02:10:19,500
three and DR two to DC or to DC and on two tracks.

2803
02:10:19,500 --> 02:10:23,500
The applicant and owner is Denton ISD.

2804
02:10:23,500 --> 02:10:30,359
The property is located on ball between Bolivar and Elm and

2805
02:10:30,359 --> 02:10:33,500
then between Elm and Locus.

2806
02:10:33,500 --> 02:10:37,500
Just to look at the existing zoning.

2807
02:10:37,500 --> 02:10:39,909
There were considerations we discussed at work at work

2808
02:10:39,909 --> 02:10:40,500
session.

2809
02:10:40,500 --> 02:10:42,500
I'd be happy to go over those again.

2810
02:10:42,500 --> 02:10:46,449
But staff is based upon those considerations and the

2811
02:10:46,449 --> 02:10:48,500
criteria for approval.

2812
02:10:48,500 --> 02:10:51,500
Staff does recommend denial of this request.

2813
02:10:51,500 --> 02:10:53,500
So I'll stand for any questions.

2814
02:10:53,500 --> 02:10:55,739
The applicant is here and I'll be happy to go over anything

2815
02:10:55,739 --> 02:10:58,500
you'd like for me to.

2816
02:10:58,500 --> 02:11:01,500
Any questions for staff?

2817
02:11:01,500 --> 02:11:03,500
OK.

2818
02:11:03,500 --> 02:11:12,500
Again, this is a public hearing.

2819
02:11:12,500 --> 02:11:13,500
I'll do that.

2820
02:11:13,500 --> 02:11:16,029
This is a public hearing and I'm going to call on the

2821
02:11:16,029 --> 02:11:17,500
applicant to come first.

2822
02:11:17,500 --> 02:11:20,319
And then I know we have some other cards of people to speak

2823
02:11:20,319 --> 02:11:24,079
and hopefully you will be able to maybe eliminate some

2824
02:11:24,079 --> 02:11:25,500
questions with your presentation.

2825
02:11:25,500 --> 02:11:33,500
So thank you.

2826
02:11:33,500 --> 02:11:42,500
Right there.

2827
02:11:42,500 --> 02:11:44,500
I just want to start by introduce myself.

2828
02:11:44,500 --> 02:11:47,439
I'm Keith Cummins with Corgan and Associates and this is

2829
02:11:47,439 --> 02:11:48,500
Robert Talbman.

2830
02:11:48,500 --> 02:11:51,850
I'm with Glenn Engineering, Civil Engineering Consultant

2831
02:11:51,850 --> 02:11:55,500
for the district at 105 Decker Court, Irving, Texas.

2832
02:11:55,500 --> 02:12:08,539
What we'd like to start off a little bit is we have a

2833
02:12:08,539 --> 02:12:18,500
little bit of a project narrative.

2834
02:12:18,500 --> 02:12:21,600
What we want to talk about a little bit here is that our

2835
02:12:21,600 --> 02:12:25,020
project narrative that obviously our site is located in Bol

2836
02:12:25,020 --> 02:12:28,250
ivar, just to 3rd Street to the north, 2nd Street to the

2837
02:12:28,250 --> 02:12:31,810
south, and we extend all the way to Locus on the east, Bol

2838
02:12:31,810 --> 02:12:33,500
ivar on the west.

2839
02:12:33,500 --> 02:12:35,890
One of the things we want to talk a little bit about is the

2840
02:12:35,890 --> 02:12:37,500
historical perspective of our site.

2841
02:12:37,500 --> 02:12:40,529
This actually started to be the Stonewall Jackson

2842
02:12:40,529 --> 02:12:44,500
Elementary School that was built in the early 1920s.

2843
02:12:44,500 --> 02:12:47,069
So the school district has been here approximately 100

2844
02:12:47,069 --> 02:12:47,500
years.

2845
02:12:47,500 --> 02:12:50,350
In the early 80s, part of the building was tore down of the

2846
02:12:50,350 --> 02:12:51,500
Stonewall Jackson.

2847
02:12:51,500 --> 02:12:54,100
As you can see up here, this is actually the current

2848
02:12:54,100 --> 02:12:56,500
location of the administration building.

2849
02:12:56,500 --> 02:13:00,579
It was tore down, part of it was tore down in the early 80s

2850
02:13:00,579 --> 02:13:04,579
and the administration building was also built in that same

2851
02:13:04,579 --> 02:13:05,500
location.

2852
02:13:05,500 --> 02:13:08,390
Along with that, this district started to purchase some of

2853
02:13:08,390 --> 02:13:10,500
the properties in and around the area.

2854
02:13:10,500 --> 02:13:12,500
So we've been there for 100 years.

2855
02:13:12,500 --> 02:13:14,409
The other option that we also want to make sure, as you

2856
02:13:14,409 --> 02:13:16,510
understand, is we are the school district and for the fact

2857
02:13:16,510 --> 02:13:17,500
that we've been there 100 years,

2858
02:13:17,500 --> 02:13:21,449
we plan on actually putting another $29 million onto this

2859
02:13:21,449 --> 02:13:24,500
site to be there for a long time to come also.

2860
02:13:24,500 --> 02:13:27,680
So while we have a great past in this neighborhood, we also

2861
02:13:27,680 --> 02:13:29,500
are looking for a great future.

2862
02:13:29,500 --> 02:13:32,130
One of the things that was brought up earlier in the

2863
02:13:32,130 --> 02:13:36,500
presentation was the amount of commercial or the impact,

2864
02:13:36,500 --> 02:13:39,699
the areas that are in purple that I'm kind of highlighting

2865
02:13:39,699 --> 02:13:40,500
with the area.

2866
02:13:40,500 --> 02:13:43,220
As we've talked about, they had what they called the hard

2867
02:13:43,220 --> 02:13:46,470
line of the differential between what exists today and what

2868
02:13:46,470 --> 02:13:47,500
the zoning is.

2869
02:13:47,500 --> 02:13:53,050
Currently, we're occupying a building that is, I was hoping

2870
02:13:53,050 --> 02:13:56,500
I could get it,

2871
02:13:56,500 --> 02:13:59,319
is the building that is located here, the professional

2872
02:13:59,319 --> 02:14:00,500
services building.

2873
02:14:00,500 --> 02:14:04,649
It is currently 90% what you call the coverage as far as

2874
02:14:04,649 --> 02:14:08,500
land use, including the building and the paving.

2875
02:14:08,500 --> 02:14:13,119
We're about to tear down these buildings, get rid of the

2876
02:14:13,119 --> 02:14:15,329
gravel that is in the back, clean this up, there's some

2877
02:14:15,329 --> 02:14:17,500
site, and we're proposing a new building on that.

2878
02:14:17,500 --> 02:14:22,960
So along with that is a lot of cleaning up in the

2879
02:14:22,960 --> 02:14:27,500
neighborhood to clean up the area.

2880
02:14:27,500 --> 02:14:30,729
I skipped through a lot of what we presented as far as the

2881
02:14:30,729 --> 02:14:32,500
streets and the adequacy.

2882
02:14:32,500 --> 02:14:35,680
One of the things we want to talk about a little bit more

2883
02:14:35,680 --> 02:14:39,020
is some of the joining uses that we have currently around

2884
02:14:39,020 --> 02:14:39,500
us.

2885
02:14:39,500 --> 02:14:43,789
This is an aerial of TWU campus. It's just immediately to

2886
02:14:43,789 --> 02:14:44,500
the north.

2887
02:14:44,500 --> 02:14:46,899
The very bottom of our screen is the administration

2888
02:14:46,899 --> 02:14:47,500
building.

2889
02:14:47,500 --> 02:14:50,710
At the very top and sort of the right is the new student

2890
02:14:50,710 --> 02:14:52,500
housing that's up there.

2891
02:14:52,500 --> 02:14:55,069
One of the things we wanted to point out is that it is also

2892
02:14:55,069 --> 02:14:56,500
a three-story structure.

2893
02:14:56,500 --> 02:14:59,520
It's located on the same street we are in a very similar

2894
02:14:59,520 --> 02:15:01,500
manner what we're proposing.

2895
02:15:01,500 --> 02:15:04,300
This is a view from the street that shows about the same

2896
02:15:04,300 --> 02:15:06,500
type setback that we're going to have.

2897
02:15:06,500 --> 02:15:09,449
This is our professional development center that's existing

2898
02:15:09,449 --> 02:15:12,930
today that we're talking about right here and the need for

2899
02:15:12,930 --> 02:15:14,500
our rezoning.

2900
02:15:14,500 --> 02:15:18,500
As you can see currently, it's basically a nice concrete,

2901
02:15:18,500 --> 02:15:21,810
well-maintained parking lot with a building that's set back

2902
02:15:21,810 --> 02:15:23,500
two stories in height.

2903
02:15:23,500 --> 02:15:26,489
And right on the other side of the street is the current

2904
02:15:26,489 --> 02:15:27,500
residential.

2905
02:15:27,500 --> 02:15:32,189
Another view. This is looking from 2nd Street looking north

2906
02:15:32,189 --> 02:15:32,500
.

2907
02:15:32,500 --> 02:15:36,500
With that we'll go if you can load up there.

2908
02:15:36,500 --> 02:15:38,529
So to give a little historical perspective, we've been

2909
02:15:38,529 --> 02:15:39,500
there for a long time.

2910
02:15:39,500 --> 02:15:42,939
We've been a good neighbor. The building that we're talking

2911
02:15:42,939 --> 02:15:46,500
about has existed since the early 80s.

2912
02:15:46,500 --> 02:15:49,380
And with that, we just want to run through again some

2913
02:15:49,380 --> 02:15:52,829
information just for clarification and in case you have any

2914
02:15:52,829 --> 02:15:53,500
questions.

2915
02:15:53,500 --> 02:15:58,500
Just the general location in proximity to downtown and TWU.

2916
02:15:58,500 --> 02:16:01,840
The site in question that we're looking at, majority of the

2917
02:16:01,840 --> 02:16:05,500
renovations, the new building, excuse me, taking place.

2918
02:16:05,500 --> 02:16:09,590
This is a site plan showing the new proposed site plan for

2919
02:16:09,590 --> 02:16:10,500
the site.

2920
02:16:10,500 --> 02:16:14,189
As you can see in the site plan, this is the proposed

2921
02:16:14,189 --> 02:16:18,329
actual new building that we are working with the district

2922
02:16:18,329 --> 02:16:19,500
to propose.

2923
02:16:19,500 --> 02:16:22,079
This is a renovated parking lot. There's an existing

2924
02:16:22,079 --> 02:16:24,500
parking there that we're looking to renovate.

2925
02:16:24,500 --> 02:16:28,960
Some new parking to the north of the existing PDC, which we

2926
02:16:28,960 --> 02:16:30,500
are not doing any work to.

2927
02:16:30,500 --> 02:16:33,500
That building is staying intact as it is.

2928
02:16:33,500 --> 02:16:36,889
You can see here the main central focus of this is this

2929
02:16:36,889 --> 02:16:38,500
pedestrian walkway.

2930
02:16:38,500 --> 02:16:41,069
We actually have a couple other slides that will focus on

2931
02:16:41,069 --> 02:16:41,500
that.

2932
02:16:41,500 --> 02:16:43,629
When talking with the district, that was something that was

2933
02:16:43,629 --> 02:16:44,500
very important to them,

2934
02:16:44,500 --> 02:16:48,450
is to form a campus out of these separate buildings that

2935
02:16:48,450 --> 02:16:52,500
were separated by different streets in this area.

2936
02:16:52,500 --> 02:16:57,809
The concept that we decided on was the central walkway that

2937
02:16:57,809 --> 02:17:00,559
really ties this into more of a campus feel for their

2938
02:17:00,559 --> 02:17:01,500
facilities.

2939
02:17:01,500 --> 02:17:05,079
The last piece that we had identified is this to the bottom

2940
02:17:05,079 --> 02:17:05,500
right,

2941
02:17:05,500 --> 02:17:08,360
which was an existing building that is just being taken

2942
02:17:08,360 --> 02:17:11,500
down and new parking added with,

2943
02:17:11,500 --> 02:17:17,500
as you can see, buffers to Locust Street as well.

2944
02:17:17,500 --> 02:17:19,590
With that, I wanted to talk in just a couple of minutes

2945
02:17:19,590 --> 02:17:21,500
about the impervious area that we talked about.

2946
02:17:21,500 --> 02:17:24,280
While we're trying to create this nice looking pedestrian

2947
02:17:24,280 --> 02:17:26,500
way, we're going to talk about how it looks and what we're

2948
02:17:26,500 --> 02:17:26,500
doing.

2949
02:17:26,500 --> 02:17:28,530
We're putting some zero-scaping in, some trees, they're

2950
02:17:28,530 --> 02:17:29,500
going to have benches.

2951
02:17:29,500 --> 02:17:33,450
We have bike racks at both facilities so that our employees

2952
02:17:33,450 --> 02:17:35,229
that live in the neighborhood or in the area can come to

2953
02:17:35,229 --> 02:17:36,500
work, bike to work.

2954
02:17:36,500 --> 02:17:39,329
Also, we have a lot of TWU students that would be able to

2955
02:17:39,329 --> 02:17:42,500
bike over here and do some of the facilities that we have.

2956
02:17:42,500 --> 02:17:45,350
But in the impervious calculations, the way we calculate it

2957
02:17:45,350 --> 02:17:48,500
, it's no longer landscaping, it counts against us.

2958
02:17:48,500 --> 02:17:51,149
One of the reasons that we're talking about needing the rez

2959
02:17:51,149 --> 02:17:55,149
oning is that the activities that we want to have in action

2960
02:17:55,149 --> 02:17:55,500
here

2961
02:17:55,500 --> 02:17:58,840
actually are a detriment to what our facility is in their

2962
02:17:58,840 --> 02:18:01,500
impervious calculations into land use.

2963
02:18:01,500 --> 02:18:10,950
I wanted to talk a little bit about the hard line that we

2964
02:18:10,950 --> 02:18:13,500
talk about.

2965
02:18:13,500 --> 02:18:19,379
It actually exists in this alleyway that is the separation

2966
02:18:19,379 --> 02:18:24,379
right here is between the two zonings of the NR3 and the DC

2967
02:18:24,379 --> 02:18:26,500
N or the DR2.

2968
02:18:26,500 --> 02:18:36,500
That's the magic line that we've been talking about.

2969
02:18:36,500 --> 02:18:41,500
Again, I wanted to reiterate this pedestrian walkway.

2970
02:18:41,500 --> 02:18:43,899
It's something that we feel is really tying this campus

2971
02:18:43,899 --> 02:18:44,500
together.

2972
02:18:44,500 --> 02:18:47,500
It's a central focus of the site.

2973
02:18:47,500 --> 02:18:50,370
This is just a rendering that we've done of how this site

2974
02:18:50,370 --> 02:18:55,500
might be activated by producing a central passageway here.

2975
02:18:55,500 --> 02:18:59,370
To continue with this, these are some shots that we were

2976
02:18:59,370 --> 02:19:00,500
looking at.

2977
02:19:00,500 --> 02:19:02,899
You can see what is being proposed as a three-story

2978
02:19:02,899 --> 02:19:03,500
building.

2979
02:19:03,500 --> 02:19:06,379
I know there was some question on occupancy of the site and

2980
02:19:06,379 --> 02:19:09,500
how that's going to affect the surrounding neighborhood.

2981
02:19:09,500 --> 02:19:12,729
What this facility actually is, is not actually bringing

2982
02:19:12,729 --> 02:19:14,500
new staff into the location.

2983
02:19:14,500 --> 02:19:17,850
It's actually, as the district has grown, they've become

2984
02:19:17,850 --> 02:19:21,500
more and more crowded in the existing facilities they have.

2985
02:19:21,500 --> 02:19:26,000
What we're doing is actually taking current employees that

2986
02:19:26,000 --> 02:19:30,170
are on the facility in the campus and just giving them more

2987
02:19:30,170 --> 02:19:32,500
workspace in this opportunity.

2988
02:19:32,500 --> 02:19:34,969
There is a little bit of room for growth, but at this

2989
02:19:34,969 --> 02:19:37,879
current state status right now, we're actually using the

2990
02:19:37,879 --> 02:19:40,799
building for the existing staff that is on the campus

2991
02:19:40,799 --> 02:19:41,500
already.

2992
02:19:41,500 --> 02:19:44,069
Don't forget, we're also demoing four buildings that are on

2993
02:19:44,069 --> 02:19:46,500
the campus also that have current staff occupying.

2994
02:19:46,500 --> 02:19:50,420
So that will also be moved into, this is just a view coming

2995
02:19:50,420 --> 02:19:51,500
from south.

2996
02:19:51,500 --> 02:19:55,670
The way the building was oriented, just back to the

2997
02:19:55,670 --> 02:19:59,270
original site plan, one thing that we were very concerned

2998
02:19:59,270 --> 02:20:01,500
with was the actual location to the street.

2999
02:20:01,500 --> 02:20:04,469
So as you can see, we located the building as close as we

3000
02:20:04,469 --> 02:20:07,489
could to the existing structure and gave it the max

3001
02:20:07,489 --> 02:20:10,500
distance away from actually Elm Street.

3002
02:20:10,500 --> 02:20:13,680
We understand this is a three story building, but that's

3003
02:20:13,680 --> 02:20:17,069
why we positioned it next to an existing two story building

3004
02:20:17,069 --> 02:20:20,159
to give a little bit more relief to the immediate street

3005
02:20:20,159 --> 02:20:20,500
there.

3006
02:20:20,500 --> 02:20:23,500
And nothing directly adjacent to the residential area.

3007
02:20:23,500 --> 02:20:26,909
This is completely inside an existing facility that is

3008
02:20:26,909 --> 02:20:29,500
being used by the district currently.

3009
02:20:29,500 --> 02:20:31,670
>> With that same thing, the other reason to go to three

3010
02:20:31,670 --> 02:20:33,500
stories is also to reduce the footprint.

3011
02:20:33,500 --> 02:20:36,129
The space needed if we go to two stories then takes up more

3012
02:20:36,129 --> 02:20:38,500
of the lot and we also reduce our lot coverage.

3013
02:20:38,500 --> 02:20:42,209
So the three story building, similar to what they did at TW

3014
02:20:42,209 --> 02:20:45,250
U, is actually helping us in where we're trying to achieve

3015
02:20:45,250 --> 02:20:48,500
is to get as much landscaping as possible on our site.

3016
02:20:48,500 --> 02:20:52,790
>> Just quickly through the floor plans, it is, like we

3017
02:20:52,790 --> 02:20:56,799
spoke, an office facility with entry on the side of that

3018
02:20:56,799 --> 02:20:58,500
pedestrian pathway.

3019
02:20:58,500 --> 02:21:02,110
The idea of that is to really energize that walkway and

3020
02:21:02,110 --> 02:21:06,049
make it a space that is really active and used, and again,

3021
02:21:06,049 --> 02:21:08,500
to reinforce that campus feel.

3022
02:21:08,500 --> 02:21:12,370
The stories are actually pretty much a match as you go up

3023
02:21:12,370 --> 02:21:16,579
in the building with offices in the center with workst

3024
02:21:16,579 --> 02:21:20,500
ations around the exterior of the building.

3025
02:21:20,500 --> 02:21:23,530
Finally, this is just some interior renderings of the

3026
02:21:23,530 --> 02:21:26,670
facility just to let you see what we're envisioning for

3027
02:21:26,670 --> 02:21:27,500
this space.

3028
02:21:27,500 --> 02:21:31,500
This is the entry coming in off of that pedestrian walkway.

3029
02:21:31,500 --> 02:21:34,989
It's a two story volume lobby and the third floor would

3030
02:21:34,989 --> 02:21:38,500
actually be utilized for conference room spaces.

3031
02:21:38,500 --> 02:21:43,280
Again, this is just the open field of the workspace and the

3032
02:21:43,280 --> 02:21:46,500
existing, or the design building.

3033
02:21:46,500 --> 02:21:50,500
So with that, we can get back to the landscape plan.

3034
02:21:50,500 --> 02:21:51,500
>> Got some questions for you.

3035
02:21:51,500 --> 02:21:52,500
Commissioner Beck.

3036
02:21:52,500 --> 02:21:53,500
>> Thank you, Chair.

3037
02:21:53,500 --> 02:21:56,309
Thanks, gentlemen, for your presentation, and either one of

3038
02:21:56,309 --> 02:21:57,500
you can answer this, but --

3039
02:21:57,500 --> 02:21:59,100
>> Commissioner Beck, can you pull your mic from closer to

3040
02:21:59,100 --> 02:21:59,500
the time?

3041
02:21:59,500 --> 02:22:00,500
I'm having a hard time hearing you.

3042
02:22:00,500 --> 02:22:01,500
>> How's that?

3043
02:22:01,500 --> 02:22:02,500
>> That's better.

3044
02:22:02,500 --> 02:22:05,500
>> Okay.

3045
02:22:05,500 --> 02:22:06,500
The plans are great.

3046
02:22:06,500 --> 02:22:08,750
I mean, this is going to be an awesome look in development

3047
02:22:08,750 --> 02:22:12,370
when it's done, and I think it will be an enhancement to

3048
02:22:12,370 --> 02:22:14,500
the neighborhood, too.

3049
02:22:14,500 --> 02:22:18,969
I -- when I was going to North Texas in the early '70s, I

3050
02:22:18,969 --> 02:22:23,149
lived on the corner of Bolivar and Crescent there, so I

3051
02:22:23,149 --> 02:22:25,500
love that neighborhood.

3052
02:22:25,500 --> 02:22:28,500
My question to you is, why go this route?

3053
02:22:28,500 --> 02:22:33,500
Why didn't you go the variance route with the zoning board?

3054
02:22:33,500 --> 02:22:34,500
Because -- okay.

3055
02:22:34,500 --> 02:22:36,500
>> And I'd like also some clarification.

3056
02:22:36,500 --> 02:22:39,149
The reason -- the way we understand the variance is when

3057
02:22:39,149 --> 02:22:41,500
you go to ZBA, you have to prove a hardship.

3058
02:22:41,500 --> 02:22:43,899
The way I understand a hardship is you can't create the

3059
02:22:43,899 --> 02:22:44,500
hardship.

3060
02:22:44,500 --> 02:22:49,729
When we practice into one lot, the one lot is everything

3061
02:22:49,729 --> 02:22:54,500
from Elm Street to Bolivar, so we have that whole block.

3062
02:22:54,500 --> 02:22:58,389
We would -- we're unable to meet the land or the impervious

3063
02:22:58,389 --> 02:23:02,170
calculation with the buildings that we have currently

3064
02:23:02,170 --> 02:23:04,500
because it's 50/50.

3065
02:23:04,500 --> 02:23:08,569
So leaving the existing buildings as they're intact, we can

3066
02:23:08,569 --> 02:23:09,500
't meet it.

3067
02:23:09,500 --> 02:23:12,219
So if we -- what they -- what I'm afraid ZBA is going to

3068
02:23:12,219 --> 02:23:15,049
tell you is you can't create a hardship, so they'll just

3069
02:23:15,049 --> 02:23:16,500
tell us you can't build the building.

3070
02:23:16,500 --> 02:23:19,500
You can leave what you have, but you can't add to it.

3071
02:23:19,500 --> 02:23:21,500
And that's the way I understand ZBA.

3072
02:23:21,500 --> 02:23:23,500
You can't create the hardship.

3073
02:23:23,500 --> 02:23:25,500
You can't do it with the current hardship.

3074
02:23:25,500 --> 02:23:26,500
>> Okay.

3075
02:23:26,500 --> 02:23:29,680
Well, I can understand your reasoning there, and I couldn't

3076
02:23:29,680 --> 02:23:31,500
answer that either, but I guess --

3077
02:23:31,500 --> 02:23:33,500
>> That's where we've been perplexed.

3078
02:23:33,500 --> 02:23:34,500
>> Okay.

3079
02:23:34,500 --> 02:23:35,500
>> And we've gone back with staff.

3080
02:23:35,500 --> 02:23:38,500
We've talked about that, the ZBA route.

3081
02:23:38,500 --> 02:23:42,180
And that was our first update, but as we talked about it

3082
02:23:42,180 --> 02:23:46,500
more, we realized that probably it wasn't the best avenue.

3083
02:23:46,500 --> 02:23:50,040
I do sort of have a compromise if we're into those words,

3084
02:23:50,040 --> 02:23:50,500
but --

3085
02:23:50,500 --> 02:23:51,500
>> Please.

3086
02:23:51,500 --> 02:23:53,959
>> I think what we've talked about a little bit is what I

3087
02:23:53,959 --> 02:23:56,500
heard from staff is they were looking for a buffer.

3088
02:23:56,500 --> 02:24:00,350
And I think what we'd like to offer up is that we would

3089
02:24:00,350 --> 02:24:04,729
like to continue the DCN use up to that magic hard line and

3090
02:24:04,729 --> 02:24:07,500
then switch over to the DCN for the strip.

3091
02:24:07,500 --> 02:24:10,059
And basically what it used to be is these were all platted

3092
02:24:10,059 --> 02:24:10,500
lots.

3093
02:24:10,500 --> 02:24:16,120
So the old alleyway that is their hard line, then we would

3094
02:24:16,120 --> 02:24:21,500
have the difference between the DCN and the NR3.

3095
02:24:21,500 --> 02:24:30,500
So we go from DCN to DR2 to NR3.

3096
02:24:30,500 --> 02:24:34,129
So it's puzzling because while we talked about that use,

3097
02:24:34,129 --> 02:24:37,610
and I heard several of the councilmen, it didn't -- that

3098
02:24:37,610 --> 02:24:39,500
hard line didn't really physically exist on the ground.

3099
02:24:39,500 --> 02:24:41,500
It was a line on paper.

3100
02:24:41,500 --> 02:24:44,799
And when they rezoned several years ago in the early 2000,

3101
02:24:44,799 --> 02:24:47,340
our buildings existed, but they weren't taken into

3102
02:24:47,340 --> 02:24:48,500
consideration.

3103
02:24:48,500 --> 02:24:51,239
The administration building was, but the church that's

3104
02:24:51,239 --> 02:24:54,440
beside us, one of the reasons we replatted, because we didn

3105
02:24:54,440 --> 02:24:56,500
't meet the fire requirements.

3106
02:24:56,500 --> 02:24:59,159
So we've gone through a lot of stuff to try to get all of

3107
02:24:59,159 --> 02:25:02,540
our buildings up to code to meet it with all of the abandon

3108
02:25:02,540 --> 02:25:05,500
ment of alleys and the increased spaces.

3109
02:25:05,500 --> 02:25:08,129
So we're working very hard on getting to where we need to

3110
02:25:08,129 --> 02:25:08,500
be.

3111
02:25:08,500 --> 02:25:09,500
Okay.

3112
02:25:09,500 --> 02:25:11,500
Well, I empathize with you.

3113
02:25:11,500 --> 02:25:12,500
I really do.

3114
02:25:12,500 --> 02:25:16,370
Let me just kind of try and convey a concern that I'm sure

3115
02:25:16,370 --> 02:25:19,500
people in the neighborhood would have.

3116
02:25:19,500 --> 02:25:23,290
Because this kind of falls on an unpleasant experience the

3117
02:25:23,290 --> 02:25:25,500
city dealt with with Buc-E's.

3118
02:25:25,500 --> 02:25:27,959
It was zoned for that, and rightfully had a right to go

3119
02:25:27,959 --> 02:25:28,500
there.

3120
02:25:28,500 --> 02:25:31,100
But I think, you know, nobody ever conceived that something

3121
02:25:31,100 --> 02:25:32,500
like a Buc-E's would be there.

3122
02:25:32,500 --> 02:25:35,500
Not that you're anywhere close to that, please.

3123
02:25:35,500 --> 02:25:37,750
But -- and I was glad to hear you say you've been here for

3124
02:25:37,750 --> 02:25:40,500
100 years, and as far as you know, you'll be here another

3125
02:25:40,500 --> 02:25:41,500
100 years.

3126
02:25:41,500 --> 02:25:44,149
And unless you can put that in blood and on paper and

3127
02:25:44,149 --> 02:25:46,700
everything like that, I think people are always going to be

3128
02:25:46,700 --> 02:25:48,500
a little tentative of what can happen down the road.

3129
02:25:48,500 --> 02:25:52,879
And the idea that you rezone this DCN and the potential for

3130
02:25:52,879 --> 02:25:57,440
a seven or eight story building going there, I think unner

3131
02:25:57,440 --> 02:25:58,500
ves people.

3132
02:25:58,500 --> 02:26:02,500
I don't know how you would assuage their feelings on that.

3133
02:26:02,500 --> 02:26:04,530
Sure, just guaranteeing you're never going to move or

3134
02:26:04,530 --> 02:26:05,500
something like that.

3135
02:26:05,500 --> 02:26:14,500
So anyway, that's my two cents worth.

3136
02:26:14,500 --> 02:26:16,500
Commissioner Taylor.

3137
02:26:16,500 --> 02:26:17,500
Thank you, Chair.

3138
02:26:17,500 --> 02:26:22,870
So I didn't quite understand your answer to Commissioner

3139
02:26:22,870 --> 02:26:28,500
Beck's question about compromise in rezoning some.

3140
02:26:28,500 --> 02:26:30,500
Could you run through that again?

3141
02:26:30,500 --> 02:26:31,500
I think I got --

3142
02:26:31,500 --> 02:26:35,100
We talked about a little bit of how we could buffer the

3143
02:26:35,100 --> 02:26:38,500
area between the -- let me slow down again.

3144
02:26:38,500 --> 02:26:45,379
The NR3, which is the residential that is across the other

3145
02:26:45,379 --> 02:26:47,500
side of Boulevard.

3146
02:26:47,500 --> 02:26:50,500
Which is where the PDC currently --

3147
02:26:50,500 --> 02:26:51,500
Right.

3148
02:26:51,500 --> 02:26:52,500
The PDC here.

3149
02:26:52,500 --> 02:26:54,500
It's already a two story building.

3150
02:26:54,500 --> 02:26:59,329
The reason that we had difficulties with the DCR2 is it

3151
02:26:59,329 --> 02:27:04,139
only was restricted to 45 feet in height, but our building

3152
02:27:04,139 --> 02:27:07,500
that's currently on that site is only two story.

3153
02:27:07,500 --> 02:27:10,500
And it's 80/20 or 80/75.

3154
02:27:10,500 --> 02:27:12,500
No, 75/25.

3155
02:27:12,500 --> 02:27:17,000
So what you're proposing is basically west of the alley, DR

3156
02:27:17,000 --> 02:27:19,500
2, east of the alley, DCN.

3157
02:27:19,500 --> 02:27:20,500
Yes.

3158
02:27:20,500 --> 02:27:23,170
And that meets the requirements that we're able to keep the

3159
02:27:23,170 --> 02:27:24,500
elevations that we need.

3160
02:27:24,500 --> 02:27:28,500
We'll meet the landscape requirements at the 80/20 and the

3161
02:27:28,500 --> 02:27:31,500
75/25 with our existing conditions.

3162
02:27:31,500 --> 02:27:32,500
Okay.

3163
02:27:32,500 --> 02:27:34,500
Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.

3164
02:27:34,500 --> 02:27:38,329
Yes, and it provides that buffer so that we're not encro

3165
02:27:38,329 --> 02:27:40,500
aching into the magic area.

3166
02:27:40,500 --> 02:27:44,500
And this facility currently is that zone currently.

3167
02:27:44,500 --> 02:27:45,500
Yeah.

3168
02:27:45,500 --> 02:27:47,500
Which is adjacent to it.

3169
02:27:47,500 --> 02:27:51,500
Any other questions for the applicant?

3170
02:27:51,500 --> 02:27:52,500
A couple.

3171
02:27:52,500 --> 02:27:54,500
Commissioner Sullivan.

3172
02:27:54,500 --> 02:27:57,500
I'm confused.

3173
02:27:57,500 --> 02:27:59,500
Where is the new building going?

3174
02:27:59,500 --> 02:28:04,500
It is this white space right here, and that is the only --

3175
02:28:04,500 --> 02:28:06,500
So you're going to maintain the old building.

3176
02:28:06,500 --> 02:28:07,500
Maintaining the old building.

3177
02:28:07,500 --> 02:28:09,500
We're not touching the old building.

3178
02:28:09,500 --> 02:28:12,680
And then you're going to tear down some of the outlying

3179
02:28:12,680 --> 02:28:13,500
buildings.

3180
02:28:13,500 --> 02:28:17,909
Yes, there's two older abandoned houses on that site that

3181
02:28:17,909 --> 02:28:18,500
were --

3182
02:28:18,500 --> 02:28:21,729
And so how many employees are there now and how many will

3183
02:28:21,729 --> 02:28:22,500
there be?

3184
02:28:22,500 --> 02:28:23,500
In the current complex?

3185
02:28:23,500 --> 02:28:25,500
In the current complex.

3186
02:28:25,500 --> 02:28:27,500
I would have to give you the exact current complex.

3187
02:28:27,500 --> 02:28:29,500
Well, I mean, just approximate.

3188
02:28:29,500 --> 02:28:33,770
All I have been informed is that we are planning for some

3189
02:28:33,770 --> 02:28:36,500
future hiring of the facility.

3190
02:28:36,500 --> 02:28:39,729
But currently, as is, it's everyone that is on the site is

3191
02:28:39,729 --> 02:28:43,500
going to get a spot in the new building or the existing

3192
02:28:43,500 --> 02:28:44,500
buildings.

3193
02:28:44,500 --> 02:28:47,500
So we're not adding any new people to the site.

3194
02:28:47,500 --> 02:28:51,020
We are factoring in, I believe, there is about 10 new

3195
02:28:51,020 --> 02:28:54,500
spaces per floor in the new building for future growth.

3196
02:28:54,500 --> 02:28:57,680
So approximately 30 more people could potentially be on the

3197
02:28:57,680 --> 02:28:58,500
site itself.

3198
02:28:58,500 --> 02:29:01,520
Because it looks like there's a whole lot more parking that

3199
02:29:01,520 --> 02:29:04,500
's going to be there eventually than what's there now.

3200
02:29:04,500 --> 02:29:05,500
Correct.

3201
02:29:05,500 --> 02:29:08,229
And to me, that would indicate a lot more people parking in

3202
02:29:08,229 --> 02:29:09,500
those parking spaces.

3203
02:29:09,500 --> 02:29:10,500
Sort of.

3204
02:29:10,500 --> 02:29:12,250
And I see where you're going with that, but a lot of what

3205
02:29:12,250 --> 02:29:14,450
we've heard in the neighborhood and what we've experienced

3206
02:29:14,450 --> 02:29:16,500
on there is that there's inadequate parking today.

3207
02:29:16,500 --> 02:29:18,500
Currently, we're trying to meet those.

3208
02:29:18,500 --> 02:29:19,500
Yeah, we're trying to meet our current needs.

3209
02:29:19,500 --> 02:29:20,500
So you're putting those off the street, basically.

3210
02:29:20,500 --> 02:29:22,610
Right, you get everybody off the street and out of the

3211
02:29:22,610 --> 02:29:24,500
neighborhood a little bit and more on site.

3212
02:29:24,500 --> 02:29:26,500
That's the purpose for a lot of this.

3213
02:29:26,500 --> 02:29:28,530
Also, we have a little bit of a joint use with the church

3214
02:29:28,530 --> 02:29:30,770
that's on the other side that when we tear down our

3215
02:29:30,770 --> 02:29:33,700
building, it's going to provide some adequate parking for

3216
02:29:33,700 --> 02:29:35,500
all the neighbors in the area, too.

3217
02:29:35,500 --> 02:29:37,500
So it's helping us during the day.

3218
02:29:37,500 --> 02:29:39,639
And it's also going to be the side benefit is it's going to

3219
02:29:39,639 --> 02:29:41,500
be able to help others in the neighborhood.

3220
02:29:41,500 --> 02:29:44,930
We met with the neighbors last week, and that was a concern

3221
02:29:44,930 --> 02:29:49,500
was actually the church, not the actual school facility.

3222
02:29:49,500 --> 02:29:52,459
And that was something they were relieved to see was some

3223
02:29:52,459 --> 02:29:55,500
additional parking that maybe can help relieve that.

3224
02:29:55,500 --> 02:29:58,500
Thank you.

3225
02:29:58,500 --> 02:30:00,500
Commissioner Rosale.

3226
02:30:00,500 --> 02:30:01,500
Thank you.

3227
02:30:01,500 --> 02:30:04,370
This is more for staff to clarify some of the things that

3228
02:30:04,370 --> 02:30:07,239
have been brought up just so I can ponder and understand

3229
02:30:07,239 --> 02:30:09,500
the reality or the potential reality.

3230
02:30:09,500 --> 02:30:11,959
One, is there any clarification that we could get on the

3231
02:30:11,959 --> 02:30:13,500
option that they have with ZBA?

3232
02:30:13,500 --> 02:30:17,500
Is their understanding of it requiring a hardship correct?

3233
02:30:17,500 --> 02:30:19,500
That's first question.

3234
02:30:19,500 --> 02:30:23,219
Subchapter three of the debt and development code outlines

3235
02:30:23,219 --> 02:30:23,500
ZBA.

3236
02:30:23,500 --> 02:30:28,500
And ZBA can provide, may grant a variance for lot coverage.

3237
02:30:28,500 --> 02:30:33,930
The criteria of which, where literal enforcement of the

3238
02:30:33,930 --> 02:30:37,159
regulations will result in unnecessary hardship, where the

3239
02:30:37,159 --> 02:30:40,500
variance is necessary to develop a specific parcel of land,

3240
02:30:40,500 --> 02:30:44,639
which because of site shape, size, or topography differs

3241
02:30:44,639 --> 02:30:48,379
from other parcels in the same district and it cannot be

3242
02:30:48,379 --> 02:30:51,149
developed in a manner commensurate with the development

3243
02:30:51,149 --> 02:30:52,500
allowed for other parcels.

3244
02:30:52,500 --> 02:30:55,680
It does say the variance shall not be granted to relieve a

3245
02:30:55,680 --> 02:30:58,930
self-created or personal hardship or to relieve a purely

3246
02:30:58,930 --> 02:31:00,500
financial hardship.

3247
02:31:00,500 --> 02:31:05,350
Staff would take, I know Manal talked about in the work

3248
02:31:05,350 --> 02:31:10,549
session, that staff would take a look at the request and do

3249
02:31:10,549 --> 02:31:13,500
an analysis on that variance.

3250
02:31:13,500 --> 02:31:15,500
It is existing.

3251
02:31:15,500 --> 02:31:21,709
There is an existing condition on the site which definitely

3252
02:31:21,709 --> 02:31:27,500
lends itself to a favorable review of that analysis.

3253
02:31:27,500 --> 02:31:31,329
We have had prior discussion and maybe there was a cross

3254
02:31:31,329 --> 02:31:37,420
line somewhere, but we have intimated how viable a Zoning

3255
02:31:37,420 --> 02:31:42,500
Board of Adjustment request or variance would be prior to

3256
02:31:42,500 --> 02:31:44,500
proceeding with a zoning case.

3257
02:31:44,500 --> 02:31:46,500
So there's a couple of options available.

3258
02:31:46,500 --> 02:31:49,399
As it relates to the ZBA, Zoning Board of Adjustment

3259
02:31:49,399 --> 02:31:52,670
application, they meet once a month, so we would have to

3260
02:31:52,670 --> 02:31:56,100
revisit the application, revisit the schedule and see where

3261
02:31:56,100 --> 02:31:59,040
they would fit in that, which could potentially mean on

3262
02:31:59,040 --> 02:32:02,969
your part a continuance or should you choose to make an

3263
02:32:02,969 --> 02:32:04,500
alternative recommendation.

3264
02:32:04,500 --> 02:32:06,500
That's your purview.

3265
02:32:06,500 --> 02:32:08,500
Thank you for the explanation.

3266
02:32:08,500 --> 02:32:13,239
Second question, kind of along those lines in terms of

3267
02:32:13,239 --> 02:32:18,250
looking at options, is it possible the way the agenda item

3268
02:32:18,250 --> 02:32:23,190
is presented to us to split track one into a DR2/DCN split

3269
02:32:23,190 --> 02:32:28,809
as they had suggested, or is that an entire new application

3270
02:32:28,809 --> 02:32:30,500
to change that?

3271
02:32:30,500 --> 02:32:33,600
I believe there was some discussion earlier on if you're,

3272
02:32:33,600 --> 02:32:36,670
for the lack of a better phrase, down zoning or looking at

3273
02:32:36,670 --> 02:32:39,750
the zoning that's not more restrictive than what's already

3274
02:32:39,750 --> 02:32:40,500
there.

3275
02:32:40,500 --> 02:32:42,500
Aaron's already chimed in.

3276
02:32:42,500 --> 02:32:44,500
He's ready to speak.

3277
02:32:44,500 --> 02:32:46,500
I can answer that question.

3278
02:32:46,500 --> 02:32:49,860
I think that the way this has been posted, they've asked

3279
02:32:49,860 --> 02:32:53,430
for a zoning that is of a higher classification, jumping up

3280
02:32:53,430 --> 02:32:55,500
two spots if I'm not mistaken.

3281
02:32:55,500 --> 02:32:58,219
You don't necessarily, because of the way it's posted with

3282
02:32:58,219 --> 02:33:00,940
the request, you can give them something less than what was

3283
02:33:00,940 --> 02:33:03,719
posted and requested, or you can make the recommendation to

3284
02:33:03,719 --> 02:33:04,500
offer that.

3285
02:33:04,500 --> 02:33:09,500
That's where the DR2 would be between the NR3 and the DCN.

3286
02:33:09,500 --> 02:33:13,030
So it is possible for us tonight with this presented to

3287
02:33:13,030 --> 02:33:16,750
take what's west of the alley that butts up against Bolivar

3288
02:33:16,750 --> 02:33:20,530
and zone that DR2 and what's east of that alley that butts

3289
02:33:20,530 --> 02:33:23,500
up against Elm approve the DCN request.

3290
02:33:23,500 --> 02:33:26,739
That is correct, because the entire area on both sides of

3291
02:33:26,739 --> 02:33:29,500
the alley are currently requested to be DCN.

3292
02:33:29,500 --> 02:33:30,500
Okay.

3293
02:33:30,500 --> 02:33:31,500
Yes, sir.

3294
02:33:31,500 --> 02:33:32,500
Thank you.

3295
02:33:32,500 --> 02:33:33,500
That's very helpful.

3296
02:33:33,500 --> 02:33:37,500
I just wanted to clarify.

3297
02:33:37,500 --> 02:33:41,670
I know that the question on the variance came up, and just

3298
02:33:41,670 --> 02:33:45,860
so that this board isn't confused, there was a statement

3299
02:33:45,860 --> 02:33:49,500
made with regards to a self-created hardship.

3300
02:33:49,500 --> 02:33:53,909
I just want to correct, to make sure everybody understands

3301
02:33:53,909 --> 02:33:56,500
what a self-created hardship.

3302
02:33:56,500 --> 02:33:58,840
That's one of the things that a ZBA looks to to make sure

3303
02:33:58,840 --> 02:34:00,500
the applicant doesn't create it.

3304
02:34:00,500 --> 02:34:04,360
The best example that I give to the ZBA, or used to get the

3305
02:34:04,360 --> 02:34:07,409
ZBA when I was their counsel, is when somebody, a developer

3306
02:34:07,409 --> 02:34:11,500
, starts with a fresh, clean slate, green field development,

3307
02:34:11,500 --> 02:34:14,680
and then decides that they want to maximize, build

3308
02:34:14,680 --> 02:34:18,209
something bigger than what's allowed, and they come in to

3309
02:34:18,209 --> 02:34:19,500
get a variance.

3310
02:34:19,500 --> 02:34:20,500
Well, that is a self-created hardship.

3311
02:34:20,500 --> 02:34:21,500
They're creating it themselves.

3312
02:34:21,500 --> 02:34:23,500
They have the opportunity to cure it.

3313
02:34:23,500 --> 02:34:28,280
As opposed to what is present in this location, you have

3314
02:34:28,280 --> 02:34:32,500
existing structures and impervious surface.

3315
02:34:32,500 --> 02:34:35,790
That is a different situation than the typical scenario of

3316
02:34:35,790 --> 02:34:37,500
a self-created hardship.

3317
02:34:37,500 --> 02:34:40,690
So I wanted to make sure that that doesn't impact your

3318
02:34:40,690 --> 02:34:41,500
ability.

3319
02:34:41,500 --> 02:34:45,940
I just want for you all to be clear that what was described

3320
02:34:45,940 --> 02:34:49,500
is not a self-created hardship, per se.

3321
02:34:49,500 --> 02:34:50,500
Commissioner Beck.

3322
02:34:50,500 --> 02:34:51,500
Thank you, Chair.

3323
02:34:51,500 --> 02:34:56,610
So you're saying then that there is a condition there that

3324
02:34:56,610 --> 02:35:00,500
they could conceivably get the variance,

3325
02:35:00,500 --> 02:35:03,000
that there isn't going to be a problem with the hardship

3326
02:35:03,000 --> 02:35:03,500
issue?

3327
02:35:03,500 --> 02:35:07,059
What I'm saying is that the statement that was made is not

3328
02:35:07,059 --> 02:35:10,500
a true self-created hardship that the ZBA would then deny,

3329
02:35:10,500 --> 02:35:14,329
because they're putting everything on one lot, and they're

3330
02:35:14,329 --> 02:35:17,500
trying to get an increase what is allowed.

3331
02:35:17,500 --> 02:35:21,770
They have what is called under the zoning theory, as well

3332
02:35:21,770 --> 02:35:25,069
as under our code, a nonconforming structures that already

3333
02:35:25,069 --> 02:35:25,500
exist.

3334
02:35:25,500 --> 02:35:29,680
They're only building one lot, and of course, because they

3335
02:35:29,680 --> 02:35:34,000
are doing site development, repaving the sidewalks and all

3336
02:35:34,000 --> 02:35:34,500
that,

3337
02:35:34,500 --> 02:35:37,500
it's treated as if they're exceeding what they had before,

3338
02:35:37,500 --> 02:35:39,500
even though it was already in place.

3339
02:35:39,500 --> 02:35:42,489
So their argument at ZBA, as much as I hate to tell what

3340
02:35:42,489 --> 02:35:44,500
the applicant, what their argument is,

3341
02:35:44,500 --> 02:35:48,040
is not that we are starting afresh and creating a new

3342
02:35:48,040 --> 02:35:50,500
surface or paving a new surface.

3343
02:35:50,500 --> 02:35:54,020
We are basically doing over or rebuilding over existing

3344
02:35:54,020 --> 02:35:58,500
surface that we have, but for the change in the zoning.

3345
02:35:58,500 --> 02:36:00,500
Can I ask how that applies to our building height then?

3346
02:36:00,500 --> 02:36:02,280
Please step to the mic if you'd like to get a clarification

3347
02:36:02,280 --> 02:36:02,500
.

3348
02:36:02,500 --> 02:36:05,489
The question that we have the two-fold problem with this,

3349
02:36:05,489 --> 02:36:08,500
it's the lot coverage, which I understand now clearly that

3350
02:36:08,500 --> 02:36:09,500
it looks like that,

3351
02:36:09,500 --> 02:36:12,790
but the other self-inflicted is the building height,

3352
02:36:12,790 --> 02:36:16,500
because in the existing height requirement, we exceed.

3353
02:36:16,500 --> 02:36:18,500
That is a different scenario.

3354
02:36:18,500 --> 02:36:19,500
Okay.

3355
02:36:19,500 --> 02:36:21,500
It's only addressing what is on the ground physically.

3356
02:36:21,500 --> 02:36:22,500
Okay.

3357
02:36:22,500 --> 02:36:26,500
That's fair.

3358
02:36:26,500 --> 02:36:29,680
I think Commissioner Rosell, it was Commissioner Beck, now

3359
02:36:29,680 --> 02:36:32,500
we're back to Commissioner Rosell, I'm sorry.

3360
02:36:32,500 --> 02:36:33,500
Keeping up with the questions.

3361
02:36:33,500 --> 02:36:34,500
Go ahead.

3362
02:36:34,500 --> 02:36:37,719
That last statement might clarify my question here, but it

3363
02:36:37,719 --> 02:36:40,670
's my understanding that if there was an option to

3364
02:36:40,670 --> 02:36:42,500
potentially table this item

3365
02:36:42,500 --> 02:36:45,760
and wait for them to go before ZBA, the applicant would

3366
02:36:45,760 --> 02:36:48,500
also have to be in agreeance for us to be able to table

3367
02:36:48,500 --> 02:36:48,500
this

3368
02:36:48,500 --> 02:36:54,500
to a date in the future, or we can do that?

3369
02:36:54,500 --> 02:36:58,670
Ultimately, if they want to go, we can't force them to go

3370
02:36:58,670 --> 02:36:59,500
to ZBA.

3371
02:36:59,500 --> 02:37:01,940
Ultimately, the applicant would have to do, we have to make

3372
02:37:01,940 --> 02:37:03,989
that decision, because the applicant would then have to

3373
02:37:03,989 --> 02:37:04,500
create new drawings,

3374
02:37:04,500 --> 02:37:07,540
go to the engineer, have them redraw what they want to do,

3375
02:37:07,540 --> 02:37:10,500
the architect, there's one involved, and then pay the fee

3376
02:37:10,500 --> 02:37:12,500
for that ZBA process,

3377
02:37:12,500 --> 02:37:14,500
which I don't know what that fee is.

3378
02:37:14,500 --> 02:37:17,500
Ultimately, they have to agree to do that.

3379
02:37:17,500 --> 02:37:21,200
There's not a mechanism that we force them to do that route

3380
02:37:21,200 --> 02:37:21,500
.

3381
02:37:21,500 --> 02:37:23,850
So I guess my question would be to the applicant, if the

3382
02:37:23,850 --> 02:37:28,500
commission was to entertain the idea of tabling for ZBA

3383
02:37:28,500 --> 02:37:29,500
decision,

3384
02:37:29,500 --> 02:37:33,340
would that be something you all would be open to, or would

3385
02:37:33,340 --> 02:37:36,500
you rather a vote be apart from a ZBA option?

3386
02:37:36,500 --> 02:37:39,500
I'm still fudging on the ZBA and our health requirement,

3387
02:37:39,500 --> 02:37:42,500
because I don't believe we adequately address that.

3388
02:37:42,500 --> 02:37:47,500
I understand the lot coverage, I think we're fine in that.

3389
02:37:47,500 --> 02:37:49,579
The height now is the other, we have two folds for ZBA, it

3390
02:37:49,579 --> 02:37:52,500
's the lot coverage and the height.

3391
02:37:52,500 --> 02:37:55,299
I can't answer that question. What I was doing was clar

3392
02:37:55,299 --> 02:37:57,020
ifying a statement you made so that they wouldn't be

3393
02:37:57,020 --> 02:37:57,500
confused.

3394
02:37:57,500 --> 02:38:00,500
This commission, who I do represent as your legal counsel,

3395
02:38:00,500 --> 02:38:04,270
you're asking one that is not a statement or cause

3396
02:38:04,270 --> 02:38:06,500
confusion, it would cost me to correct it.

3397
02:38:06,500 --> 02:38:09,940
That would be something that I would recommend you

3398
02:38:09,940 --> 02:38:13,989
coordinate with the legal counsel for the school district

3399
02:38:13,989 --> 02:38:16,500
who could answer that question.

3400
02:38:16,500 --> 02:38:18,500
Commissioner Ellis.

3401
02:38:18,500 --> 02:38:23,319
Thank you, Chair. For the applicant, I'm sorry, you just

3402
02:38:23,319 --> 02:38:24,500
sat down.

3403
02:38:24,500 --> 02:38:26,879
I guess a question for the site plan. This is a

3404
02:38:26,879 --> 02:38:29,500
professional development site, correct, currently?

3405
02:38:29,500 --> 02:38:30,500
Correct, yes, ma'am.

3406
02:38:30,500 --> 02:38:33,540
And is that what it's remaining or are there future plans

3407
02:38:33,540 --> 02:38:36,500
with this expansion for it to become other things?

3408
02:38:36,500 --> 02:38:41,500
No, ma'am. It's all on staff, professional development.

3409
02:38:41,500 --> 02:38:44,409
Excuse me, it's professional development and support

3410
02:38:44,409 --> 02:38:48,069
services, so it houses their accounting departments, their

3411
02:38:48,069 --> 02:38:53,729
in-staff that manages, so it's both currently, both are

3412
02:38:53,729 --> 02:38:58,000
housed in the professional services building, excuse me,

3413
02:38:58,000 --> 02:38:59,500
professional development building.

3414
02:38:59,500 --> 02:39:01,750
This is actually going to allow them to keep the

3415
02:39:01,750 --> 02:39:04,799
professional development building more intact with that and

3416
02:39:04,799 --> 02:39:07,670
pull out the support services staff into a support services

3417
02:39:07,670 --> 02:39:08,500
building.

3418
02:39:08,500 --> 02:39:10,500
But on this campus?

3419
02:39:10,500 --> 02:39:12,500
Yes, yes, this building, so it's all staff.

3420
02:39:12,500 --> 02:39:15,680
And with this, because this is really an expansion for what

3421
02:39:15,680 --> 02:39:18,430
you have now, are you bringing other things that are

3422
02:39:18,430 --> 02:39:21,500
happening elsewhere in buildings in the district?

3423
02:39:21,500 --> 02:39:25,450
There has not been a clear indication of that. Currently

3424
02:39:25,450 --> 02:39:29,170
what we've had have identified are staff that's on the

3425
02:39:29,170 --> 02:39:30,500
campus itself.

3426
02:39:30,500 --> 02:39:34,500
I guess what I'm getting to is other activities.

3427
02:39:34,500 --> 02:39:35,500
Oh, yes.

3428
02:39:35,500 --> 02:39:39,069
Because you do, I mean you have many educational services

3429
02:39:39,069 --> 02:39:42,719
for your teachers throughout the year, certainly over the

3430
02:39:42,719 --> 02:39:45,500
summertime, you have workshops there.

3431
02:39:45,500 --> 02:39:49,500
There is none planned. This is strictly office space for...

3432
02:39:49,500 --> 02:39:50,500
As it's being used now.

3433
02:39:50,500 --> 02:39:54,500
As it's being used now. So no additional, I guess, perks.

3434
02:39:54,500 --> 02:39:55,500
Okay, understood.

3435
02:39:55,500 --> 02:39:56,500
Or opportunities.

3436
02:39:56,500 --> 02:39:57,500
Thank you.

3437
02:39:57,500 --> 02:39:58,500
Okay.

3438
02:39:58,500 --> 02:40:03,500
Great. I see no further questions. Thank you, applicants.

3439
02:40:03,500 --> 02:40:08,250
This is a public hearing. As such, if you would like to

3440
02:40:08,250 --> 02:40:12,500
speak, please fill out a card and turn those in.

3441
02:40:12,500 --> 02:40:14,969
I've got several cards and I'm going to start with our

3442
02:40:14,969 --> 02:40:15,500
cards.

3443
02:40:15,500 --> 02:40:20,500
I have Barney Cosimo at 1107 Bolivar.

3444
02:40:20,500 --> 02:40:22,899
As you come forward, if you'll please state your name and

3445
02:40:22,899 --> 02:40:25,500
address for the record and you'll have four minutes, sir.

3446
02:40:25,500 --> 02:40:26,500
Thank you.

3447
02:40:26,500 --> 02:40:30,129
Okay. My name is Barney Cosimo. I live at 1107 Bolivar and

3448
02:40:30,129 --> 02:40:34,379
I also own rental property directly across from the

3449
02:40:34,379 --> 02:40:35,500
development.

3450
02:40:35,500 --> 02:40:39,120
As I understand it, the existing buildings are going to

3451
02:40:39,120 --> 02:40:42,819
remain. That is the main building that was formerly the

3452
02:40:42,819 --> 02:40:46,149
Catholic Church educational building and the church

3453
02:40:46,149 --> 02:40:48,649
building and the other buildings are going to be cleared

3454
02:40:48,649 --> 02:40:49,500
from the site.

3455
02:40:49,500 --> 02:40:53,190
Just looking at the plan, it looks like it will

3456
02:40:53,190 --> 02:40:57,500
significantly enhance the aesthetics of the area.

3457
02:40:57,500 --> 02:41:02,500
I don't think a three-story building on Elm is going to be

3458
02:41:02,500 --> 02:41:06,090
overly intrusive on Bolivar. It would be nice to get that

3459
02:41:06,090 --> 02:41:07,500
area cleaned up. It is pretty much a haphazard mess.

3460
02:41:07,500 --> 02:41:11,420
Right now there's a portable building serving as a support

3461
02:41:11,420 --> 02:41:15,489
building and a field that is not developed, but it also

3462
02:41:15,489 --> 02:41:18,500
collects water when it rains.

3463
02:41:18,500 --> 02:41:23,610
It would be nice to have that developed and cleaned up and

3464
02:41:23,610 --> 02:41:28,290
nicely landscaped. I can support it. I'd rather have that

3465
02:41:28,290 --> 02:41:30,500
than some of the other things that have been proposed for

3466
02:41:30,500 --> 02:41:31,500
that area in the past. Thank you.

3467
02:41:31,500 --> 02:41:33,500
We have a question for you. Commissioner Beck.

3468
02:41:33,500 --> 02:41:36,360
Thank you, Chair. I'm sorry. Mr. Cosimo, did you say you

3469
02:41:36,360 --> 02:41:38,500
did live directly across the street from it?

3470
02:41:38,500 --> 02:41:44,670
I live just a little bit south at 1107, but I own rental

3471
02:41:44,670 --> 02:41:49,299
property directly across from that. You live at 1107 Boliv

3472
02:41:49,299 --> 02:41:51,500
ar? 1107, yes. Thank you.

3473
02:41:51,500 --> 02:41:59,670
Thank you, sir. Our next speaker, request to speak, will be

3474
02:41:59,670 --> 02:42:04,250
Kate Lamas at 1120 North Locust and your card is marked in

3475
02:42:04,250 --> 02:42:05,500
opposition.

3476
02:42:05,500 --> 02:42:10,010
Hi, it's actually Kate Linus. Linus, sorry. That's all

3477
02:42:10,010 --> 02:42:15,979
right. I live at 1120 North Locust. I also work at the cour

3478
02:42:15,979 --> 02:42:20,090
thouse on the square at 110 West Hickory. I work for Denton

3479
02:42:20,090 --> 02:42:20,500
County.

3480
02:42:20,500 --> 02:42:26,069
So I would like to say that I did go to the neighborhood

3481
02:42:26,069 --> 02:42:32,659
meeting that the DISD offered on the 22nd and that was very

3482
02:42:32,659 --> 02:42:38,469
good. I am in support of the idea that DISD is trying to

3483
02:42:38,469 --> 02:42:40,500
form a campus.

3484
02:42:40,500 --> 02:42:44,420
I love that idea. I had understood from that meeting that

3485
02:42:44,420 --> 02:42:47,610
not only was it going to be every employee that was

3486
02:42:47,610 --> 02:42:52,500
currently on those different blocks, but in addition, they

3487
02:42:52,500 --> 02:42:56,700
were moving staff from the building that is currently off

3488
02:42:56,700 --> 02:42:57,500
of university.

3489
02:42:57,500 --> 02:43:01,450
And so that would actually increase the overall numbers.

3490
02:43:01,450 --> 02:43:05,860
But again, it's that idea of the campus. I also support the

3491
02:43:05,860 --> 02:43:08,500
idea of the pedestrian crossway.

3492
02:43:08,500 --> 02:43:13,020
I would like to mention, however, that Elm and Locust are

3493
02:43:13,020 --> 02:43:17,530
text dot roads. They are highways, Highway 77 and Highway

3494
02:43:17,530 --> 02:43:22,299
377. And without the agreement of text dot, there is no way

3495
02:43:22,299 --> 02:43:26,219
that there can be a pedestrian walkway across Elm Street or

3496
02:43:26,219 --> 02:43:27,500
any other one.

3497
02:43:27,500 --> 02:43:32,149
If the ISD, the city, text dot and everybody else involved

3498
02:43:32,149 --> 02:43:36,459
actually agrees to a pedestrian walkway on Elm Street,

3499
02:43:36,459 --> 02:43:40,540
please move it all the way across on Locust so that you

3500
02:43:40,540 --> 02:43:45,000
have neighborhood all the way to TWU and people cannot go

3501
02:43:45,000 --> 02:43:49,500
55 miles an hour down Locust and in front of my house.

3502
02:43:49,500 --> 02:43:54,889
But I'm speaking in opposition to the rezoning request. I

3503
02:43:54,889 --> 02:44:00,159
don't agree that there's any need to rezone these pieces of

3504
02:44:00,159 --> 02:44:05,500
property in order to build this campus that they want.

3505
02:44:05,500 --> 02:44:10,280
I think that they can work within the ideas of staff staff

3506
02:44:10,280 --> 02:44:15,639
recommendation, which actually is a denial staff recommends

3507
02:44:15,639 --> 02:44:19,969
denial of the request as it is incompatible with the

3508
02:44:19,969 --> 02:44:24,809
surrounding land uses uses and development pattern and is

3509
02:44:24,809 --> 02:44:28,500
inconsistent with the goals and objectives of the Denton

3510
02:44:28,500 --> 02:44:28,500
plan.

3511
02:44:28,500 --> 02:44:32,809
I think that's a very important point to note in the

3512
02:44:32,809 --> 02:44:38,250
resolution, which is to make the zoning district consistent

3513
02:44:38,250 --> 02:44:43,500
with the comprehensive plan and the future land use plan.

3514
02:44:43,500 --> 02:44:57,569
Three stories, not three stories. That doesn't bother me so

3515
02:44:57,569 --> 02:44:59,719
much. The look isn't really wonderful for the neighborhood

3516
02:44:59,719 --> 02:44:59,979
because the neighborhood has a whole lot of older buildings

3517
02:44:59,979 --> 02:45:00,500
. My particular home was built in 1928. I just got recently

3518
02:45:00,500 --> 02:45:02,500
the historic landmark.

3519
02:45:02,500 --> 02:45:07,149
That's okay. My house is brick next door is a Denton wood

3520
02:45:07,149 --> 02:45:11,989
house next to it is a fake brick colonial. I mean, there's

3521
02:45:11,989 --> 02:45:16,860
all kinds of development. It's modern looking. That's not a

3522
02:45:16,860 --> 02:45:17,500
problem either.

3523
02:45:17,500 --> 02:45:24,280
It is huge. If you just go back and look at the pictures,

3524
02:45:24,280 --> 02:45:30,799
the site plans, it is so much bigger than anything else

3525
02:45:30,799 --> 02:45:33,909
around it. Maybe bring the three stories size down a little

3526
02:45:33,909 --> 02:45:36,430
bit instead of being monumental architecture. We make it

3527
02:45:36,430 --> 02:45:37,500
human size architecture.

3528
02:45:37,500 --> 02:45:45,700
It doesn't have to be huge buildings like around TWU campus

3529
02:45:45,700 --> 02:45:51,120
with the big multi story buildings. It should fit in to the

3530
02:45:51,120 --> 02:45:54,379
neighborhood. And I think that it can fit into the

3531
02:45:54,379 --> 02:45:55,500
neighborhood.

3532
02:45:55,500 --> 02:45:58,610
Some of the building they have right now is the old

3533
02:45:58,610 --> 02:46:02,549
elementary school. I mean, they were talking about you can

3534
02:46:02,549 --> 02:46:06,450
actually see parts of it in the rough. That's fantastic.

3535
02:46:06,450 --> 02:46:09,790
But fit into the neighborhood so it doesn't have to be

3536
02:46:09,790 --> 02:46:12,500
quite so extensive. That's it.

3537
02:46:12,500 --> 02:46:16,579
Let's make a clarification for you. In our work session, I

3538
02:46:16,579 --> 02:46:20,379
know everybody wasn't able to be there. One of the main

3539
02:46:20,379 --> 02:46:24,340
concerns that the commission had with the zoning request is

3540
02:46:24,340 --> 02:46:29,520
with the DCN, the height is 100 feet. With the DR2, the

3541
02:46:29,520 --> 02:46:31,500
height is 45 feet.

3542
02:46:31,500 --> 02:46:34,540
So it's a substantial difference to go from the DCN to go

3543
02:46:34,540 --> 02:46:38,020
back to DR2. That's one of the things we'll be talking with

3544
02:46:38,020 --> 02:46:41,170
the applicant here in a minute after we close the public

3545
02:46:41,170 --> 02:46:44,409
hearing and how we move this forward. Does that make a

3546
02:46:44,409 --> 02:46:47,500
difference to you if it goes from 100 feet down to 45?

3547
02:46:47,500 --> 02:46:56,680
I don't know that you can do a three story building in 45

3548
02:46:56,680 --> 02:47:05,540
feet. I don't know. I don't know enough about it. They

3549
02:47:05,540 --> 02:47:05,829
would have to in that zoning. One of my concerns with

3550
02:47:05,829 --> 02:47:06,139
changing the zoning in that way as opposed to doing the ZAB

3551
02:47:06,139 --> 02:47:11,719
, which was the staff recommendation, is I have a house that

3552
02:47:11,719 --> 02:47:15,809
I'm going to have for a very long time with very old trees

3553
02:47:15,809 --> 02:47:16,500
around it.

3554
02:47:16,500 --> 02:47:20,670
I would love to not have the falling down building. That

3555
02:47:20,670 --> 02:47:24,500
used to be my church when it was a Catholic church.

3556
02:47:24,500 --> 02:47:27,500
Something that's going to clean it up, that's fantastic.

3557
02:47:27,500 --> 02:47:32,100
But 100 feet right there? I don't know that that's

3558
02:47:32,100 --> 02:47:35,500
appropriate for the rest of the neighborhood.

3559
02:47:35,500 --> 02:47:42,229
I think that needs to be kept in mind. What is appropriate

3560
02:47:42,229 --> 02:47:47,600
for the rest of the neighborhood? Thank you. We have a

3561
02:47:47,600 --> 02:47:48,540
question. Commissioner Roselle? You brought a good point.

3562
02:47:48,540 --> 02:47:53,899
Not a question for you. Sorry. Is it possible to build that

3563
02:47:53,899 --> 02:47:56,500
building under 45 feet?

3564
02:47:56,500 --> 02:48:01,549
It's something we can look at. Currently the parapet height

3565
02:48:01,549 --> 02:48:06,549
is at 49 feet, so we're very close to it. The complications

3566
02:48:06,549 --> 02:48:09,780
come in, of course, with our mechanical and structural, if

3567
02:48:09,780 --> 02:48:12,750
it works within the system. It's something we can go back

3568
02:48:12,750 --> 02:48:14,500
and reevaluate and see.

3569
02:48:14,500 --> 02:48:17,729
There are additional mechanical screens that we have

3570
02:48:17,729 --> 02:48:21,159
currently on the rooftop, which would add some height to

3571
02:48:21,159 --> 02:48:24,540
that. I would have to get clarification if that zoning

3572
02:48:24,540 --> 02:48:28,100
restriction is for parapet height or for actual mechanical

3573
02:48:28,100 --> 02:48:30,500
screens would be a factor as well.

3574
02:48:30,500 --> 02:48:33,159
I'm going to ask this question. I'm going to steal it from

3575
02:48:33,159 --> 02:48:38,780
Commissioner Hudspeth. Is it possible to go down? Can you

3576
02:48:38,780 --> 02:48:41,500
office down?

3577
02:48:41,500 --> 02:48:44,489
Okay, perfect. That's ignorant speaking. I was curious.

3578
02:48:44,489 --> 02:48:48,500
Thank you.

3579
02:48:48,500 --> 02:48:53,159
Okay. Again, this is a public hearing. The next speaker I

3580
02:48:53,159 --> 02:48:58,799
have a card on is Michael Hinnon, 724 Thomas Street,

3581
02:48:58,799 --> 02:49:01,500
speaking in opposition.

3582
02:49:01,500 --> 02:49:12,440
Do you still like to speak? I'm sorry. You're correct. I

3583
02:49:12,440 --> 02:49:14,190
have it mixed in with the others. We've got a stack of

3584
02:49:14,190 --> 02:49:18,500
cards. I apologize.

3585
02:49:18,500 --> 02:49:23,799
I'll make sure I have the rest of them correct. Okay. I

3586
02:49:23,799 --> 02:49:30,379
apologize. The next speaker then would be Lori Davis, 1502

3587
02:49:30,379 --> 02:49:33,500
Bolivar, and question mark.

3588
02:49:33,500 --> 02:49:49,129
Okay. That's fine. My name is Lori Davis, 1502 Bolivar, 76

3589
02:49:49,129 --> 02:49:49,729
201. I was worried about the traffic flow going in and out

3590
02:49:49,729 --> 02:49:51,000
of Bolivar because I've lived there for 15 years now, and

3591
02:49:51,000 --> 02:49:54,500
actually 16 years.

3592
02:49:54,500 --> 02:49:59,420
People fly up and down Bolivar Street like it is one of the

3593
02:49:59,420 --> 02:50:03,680
highways. They really do. It's scary. And I was just

3594
02:50:03,680 --> 02:50:05,149
wanting to know if they had done traffic studies about this

3595
02:50:05,149 --> 02:50:08,829
because if there's an increase in people going to this

3596
02:50:08,829 --> 02:50:12,600
building, how it's going to affect just backing in and out

3597
02:50:12,600 --> 02:50:15,500
of your driveway every morning or every evening.

3598
02:50:15,500 --> 02:50:20,209
That's all. We can certainly ask the applicant to answer

3599
02:50:20,209 --> 02:50:24,500
that question for you if they have done any of that. Okay.

3600
02:50:24,500 --> 02:50:27,079
We've not done a traffic impact analysis, but we have

3601
02:50:27,079 --> 02:50:29,829
looked at what happens on our site in a regular basis, and

3602
02:50:29,829 --> 02:50:32,639
that's one of the reasons for getting more on-site parking

3603
02:50:32,639 --> 02:50:35,500
is to get one of the things that the district has been

3604
02:50:35,500 --> 02:50:38,500
aware of for a long time is the on-street parking issue.

3605
02:50:38,500 --> 02:50:41,489
So by getting those people off the street, we're hoping to

3606
02:50:41,489 --> 02:50:44,250
be able to clean up the neighborhood and get more of our

3607
02:50:44,250 --> 02:50:47,500
staff in parking. Okay, great. Thank you.

3608
02:50:47,500 --> 02:50:50,819
Again, this is a public hearing. I don't have any more

3609
02:50:50,819 --> 02:50:54,979
cards wishing to speak. I have a couple of comments that I

3610
02:50:54,979 --> 02:50:59,500
'm going to at least acknowledge and read in the record.

3611
02:50:59,500 --> 02:51:03,350
Anyone else that would like to speak is welcome to come

3612
02:51:03,350 --> 02:51:07,479
forward and you can fill out a card. We would like to hear

3613
02:51:07,479 --> 02:51:11,750
from you. In the meantime, I do have a note from Tommy Toul

3614
02:51:11,750 --> 02:51:14,500
ouse, looks like at 1408 Bolver Street.

3615
02:51:14,500 --> 02:51:19,500
He is in favor of the request.

3616
02:51:19,500 --> 02:51:24,040
I also have a comment here from Samuel Smith at 1508

3617
02:51:24,040 --> 02:51:28,579
Village Estates Drive. He is opposed to the request, and

3618
02:51:28,579 --> 02:51:32,659
those are all the cards or comments that we have at this

3619
02:51:32,659 --> 02:51:33,500
time.

3620
02:51:33,500 --> 02:51:37,399
Again, it's a public hearing, so anyone who would like to

3621
02:51:37,399 --> 02:51:40,500
speak, please come forward at this time.

3622
02:51:40,500 --> 02:51:44,340
Seeing no one else, I'm going to close the public hearing

3623
02:51:44,340 --> 02:51:48,500
and I'm going to open the floor for discussion or a motion.

3624
02:51:48,500 --> 02:51:50,500
Commissioner Hussbuth.

3625
02:51:50,500 --> 02:51:56,530
Thank you. So I wasn't here, so I'm going to try to keep it

3626
02:51:56,530 --> 02:52:01,229
short. I was watching online and yelling at my seat, but I

3627
02:52:01,229 --> 02:52:03,500
couldn't, you couldn't hear me.

3628
02:52:03,500 --> 02:52:11,690
So my thought is I have two chief points. One is to start

3629
02:52:11,690 --> 02:52:20,049
to try to be consistent within half blocks is a bit onerous

3630
02:52:20,049 --> 02:52:22,500
, in my humble opinion.

3631
02:52:22,500 --> 02:52:27,040
So if we're talking to, I don't know, you can call this an

3632
02:52:27,040 --> 02:52:31,549
alley. We'll call it an alley. But our city has bigger

3633
02:52:31,549 --> 02:52:34,500
zoning issues than half blocks.

3634
02:52:34,500 --> 02:52:40,149
And then if I look forward to the future land use, it also

3635
02:52:40,149 --> 02:52:45,909
backs that point that it uses Bolver as a meshing point for

3636
02:52:45,909 --> 02:52:48,500
those two districts.

3637
02:52:48,500 --> 02:52:52,290
This body, if we're going to start splitting half blocks,

3638
02:52:52,290 --> 02:52:55,500
it's going to be a whole bunch of late meetings.

3639
02:52:55,500 --> 02:52:58,790
It's a terrible precedent to sit, in my humble opinion. And

3640
02:52:58,790 --> 02:53:02,500
then it also, looking forward, as I look at the future land

3641
02:53:02,500 --> 02:53:03,500
use,

3642
02:53:03,500 --> 02:53:07,010
it also points out something that we should probably

3643
02:53:07,010 --> 02:53:11,170
consider, and that is that TW is not too far away. And they

3644
02:53:11,170 --> 02:53:13,500
don't have to ask for much.

3645
02:53:13,500 --> 02:53:17,350
So as that university grows, and it's stated that they have

3646
02:53:17,350 --> 02:53:21,500
housing need issues, and they're growing exponentially.

3647
02:53:21,500 --> 02:53:25,909
So you're talking about taking a project and taking

3648
02:53:25,909 --> 02:53:30,010
something out of your control and putting it in the state's

3649
02:53:30,010 --> 02:53:31,500
control in the near future

3650
02:53:31,500 --> 02:53:36,069
if we're not careful about how we manage things. And so I

3651
02:53:36,069 --> 02:53:38,500
just, I think it all flows.

3652
02:53:38,500 --> 02:53:42,909
I mean, I'm using the future land use and reality as a

3653
02:53:42,909 --> 02:53:44,500
guiding light.

3654
02:53:44,500 --> 02:53:47,780
Reality is we can't be consistent in zoning within half

3655
02:53:47,780 --> 02:53:55,500
blocks. And two, the future land use says it fits.

3656
02:53:55,500 --> 02:53:59,420
And then logic says they're not going to sell a building in

3657
02:53:59,420 --> 02:54:02,500
the middle of their other two buildings.

3658
02:54:02,500 --> 02:54:06,030
I mean, if it's on the edges, I get it, maybe. But you're

3659
02:54:06,030 --> 02:54:09,020
not going to have an existing building, build a new

3660
02:54:09,020 --> 02:54:09,500
building,

3661
02:54:09,500 --> 02:54:12,600
and then have another existing building, and then sell the

3662
02:54:12,600 --> 02:54:15,709
one in the middle so that you can build some magical,

3663
02:54:15,709 --> 02:54:18,500
mystical, eight, seven story building.

3664
02:54:18,500 --> 02:54:23,219
That just defies logic. So for me, those are the things

3665
02:54:23,219 --> 02:54:27,110
that really perplex me is I don't want to, as a body, for

3666
02:54:27,110 --> 02:54:28,500
the time that I'm sitting here,

3667
02:54:28,500 --> 02:54:34,409
start managing half blocks. I just think that's, it's hard

3668
02:54:34,409 --> 02:54:38,870
for me to process that if you, because again, we're looking

3669
02:54:38,870 --> 02:54:39,500
at the entire city.

3670
02:54:39,500 --> 02:54:43,020
So citywide, are we going to start looking at every alley,

3671
02:54:43,020 --> 02:54:46,500
every half block, and try to be consistent within them?

3672
02:54:46,500 --> 02:54:50,920
That makes for a lot of late Wednesday nights. What is

3673
02:54:50,920 --> 02:54:54,500
today? Today Wednesday? Yes. All right. Thank you.

3674
02:54:54,500 --> 02:55:00,500
Okay. Commissioner Taylor. Excuse me. Thank you, Chair.

3675
02:55:00,500 --> 02:55:04,010
So for the benefit of the audience who might not have been

3676
02:55:04,010 --> 02:55:06,500
following along in our work session,

3677
02:55:06,500 --> 02:55:13,430
we had a lot of conversations about the building facing Bol

3678
02:55:13,430 --> 02:55:17,610
ivar. It's been there for probably 30 years, something along

3679
02:55:17,610 --> 02:55:19,500
30 years or more.

3680
02:55:19,500 --> 02:55:23,500
And it, it's, so it's been part of the neighborhood and the

3681
02:55:23,500 --> 02:55:27,139
neighbors have accepted it as much as they may or may not

3682
02:55:27,139 --> 02:55:31,500
like the parking and additional traffic it might bring.

3683
02:55:31,500 --> 02:55:35,020
However, it's zoned NR3, which is a three house, three and

3684
02:55:35,020 --> 02:55:38,540
a half houses per acre residential zoning, a very kind of

3685
02:55:38,540 --> 02:55:41,500
low density suburban type zoning.

3686
02:55:41,500 --> 02:55:44,270
And the concern isn't so much that, you know, this is, if

3687
02:55:44,270 --> 02:55:47,079
we rezone it, the school district's going to build a 10

3688
02:55:47,079 --> 02:55:49,500
story tower and loom over the neighborhood.

3689
02:55:49,500 --> 02:55:54,600
The concern is we begin to, to erode the line that forms

3690
02:55:54,600 --> 02:56:00,020
the boundary between the neighborhood and the commercial

3691
02:56:00,020 --> 02:56:02,500
area on Elm and Locust.

3692
02:56:02,500 --> 02:56:05,790
And so we were, we've been trying to figure out ways

3693
02:56:05,790 --> 02:56:09,239
because if the school district re-zones this piece,

3694
02:56:09,239 --> 02:56:12,840
somebody who owns a couple of rental properties on the

3695
02:56:12,840 --> 02:56:16,229
other side of Bolivar or a half a block up or half a block

3696
02:56:16,229 --> 02:56:20,260
down could say, you know, there's already DCN on this block

3697
02:56:20,260 --> 02:56:20,500
.

3698
02:56:20,500 --> 02:56:24,819
I want to put in DCN on my three lots, plathem together and

3699
02:56:24,819 --> 02:56:29,409
build a nice little five story apartment building with, you

3700
02:56:29,409 --> 02:56:32,500
know, 15 units, pretty small.

3701
02:56:32,500 --> 02:56:34,350
But that's obviously a dramatic change for the neighborhood

3702
02:56:34,350 --> 02:56:34,500
.

3703
02:56:34,500 --> 02:56:40,159
It's, it's, you know, this, this beginning erosion of, of

3704
02:56:40,159 --> 02:56:42,500
the zoning boundary.

3705
02:56:42,500 --> 02:56:46,329
And so we were, that's why the ZBA approach keeps the

3706
02:56:46,329 --> 02:56:50,500
existing zoning, you know, keeps it in our three.

3707
02:56:50,500 --> 02:56:55,610
It's still a nonconforming use and you just get your height

3708
02:56:55,610 --> 02:56:59,500
changes and your pervious cover changes.

3709
02:56:59,500 --> 02:57:02,680
But I also realized that that, that's a ton of work for the

3710
02:57:02,680 --> 02:57:03,500
applicant.

3711
02:57:03,500 --> 02:57:08,799
It's the height, there might not be an easy way to do it or

3712
02:57:08,799 --> 02:57:11,500
it might not pass the ZBA.

3713
02:57:11,500 --> 02:57:15,629
So, so we don't know that that's a guaranteed solution

3714
02:57:15,629 --> 02:57:16,500
either.

3715
02:57:16,500 --> 02:57:19,760
You've brought a beautiful site plan and this is a struggle

3716
02:57:19,760 --> 02:57:23,850
for me because this is a rezone and site plans can't be

3717
02:57:23,850 --> 02:57:25,500
bound to a rezoning.

3718
02:57:25,500 --> 02:57:26,500
In theory, this is unlikely.

3719
02:57:26,500 --> 02:57:30,059
The district could rezone all this, bulldoze it all and

3720
02:57:30,059 --> 02:57:32,500
sell it to an apartment developer.

3721
02:57:32,500 --> 02:57:33,500
You know, it's not going to happen.

3722
02:57:33,500 --> 02:57:36,440
But that's, that's something we have to consider with rez

3723
02:57:36,440 --> 02:57:39,319
ones as opposed to the ADP earlier today where we can make

3724
02:57:39,319 --> 02:57:40,500
the site plan binding.

3725
02:57:40,500 --> 02:57:42,870
They want to change the color of the brick, they have to

3726
02:57:42,870 --> 02:57:43,500
come back.

3727
02:57:43,500 --> 02:57:46,819
They want to put in one less tree on that, that buffer,

3728
02:57:46,819 --> 02:57:48,500
they have to come back.

3729
02:57:48,500 --> 02:57:51,010
If it would rezone, it's, it's permanently rezoned and if

3730
02:57:51,010 --> 02:57:53,829
something changes in the disposition of the property, you

3731
02:57:53,829 --> 02:57:56,500
now have a new set of rules.

3732
02:57:56,500 --> 02:58:00,500
And that's also the challenge that the neighbor is on.

3733
02:58:00,500 --> 02:58:02,500
Locusts have brought up.

3734
02:58:02,500 --> 02:58:05,500
You need 49 feet instead of 45 feet.

3735
02:58:05,500 --> 02:58:09,500
But our next zoning category is 100 feet of height.

3736
02:58:09,500 --> 02:58:11,530
And, you know, I don't think you all are going to build a

3737
02:58:11,530 --> 02:58:12,500
100 foot tower.

3738
02:58:12,500 --> 02:58:15,500
But that's, that is a huge difference in scale.

3739
02:58:15,500 --> 02:58:20,059
So we're trying to find a way to allow this really great

3740
02:58:20,059 --> 02:58:23,889
project that's walkable, integrates into the neighborhood

3741
02:58:23,889 --> 02:58:24,500
pretty well,

3742
02:58:24,500 --> 02:58:27,840
provides walkable employment and a nice pedestrian plaza

3743
02:58:27,840 --> 02:58:30,500
that was a benefit to everybody in the area,

3744
02:58:30,500 --> 02:58:32,260
takes parking off of the street and puts it on your parking

3745
02:58:32,260 --> 02:58:36,500
lot, shares parking with the neighborhood, etc.

3746
02:58:36,500 --> 02:58:40,290
Without eroding the protections of the neighborhoods to the

3747
02:58:40,290 --> 02:58:43,500
, to the west and without, you know,

3748
02:58:43,500 --> 02:58:47,850
opening up a whole other can of worms with future zoning

3749
02:58:47,850 --> 02:58:51,500
changes in the neighboring area or, you know,

3750
02:58:51,500 --> 02:58:55,100
this kind of God forbid scenario where somehow the property

3751
02:58:55,100 --> 02:58:58,500
changes ownership and something else gets built there.

3752
02:58:58,500 --> 02:59:03,500
And I, I'm, I'm worried about the ZBA solution.

3753
02:59:03,500 --> 02:59:06,489
In the work session, I was really leaning toward the ZBA.

3754
02:59:06,489 --> 02:59:07,500
If we could table this, you know,

3755
02:59:07,500 --> 02:59:12,659
set a post-mortem date until the application is changed or

3756
02:59:12,659 --> 02:59:15,500
results of ZBA are finished.

3757
02:59:15,500 --> 02:59:18,500
But I do think that that's, it's going to add a massive

3758
02:59:18,500 --> 02:59:19,500
amount of delay.

3759
02:59:19,500 --> 02:59:24,450
And I like the DR2 on Bolivar because that provides

3760
02:59:24,450 --> 02:59:27,500
protection toward Bolivar.

3761
02:59:27,500 --> 02:59:29,500
DR2 is still a residential zoning.

3762
02:59:29,500 --> 02:59:33,290
You know, it gets you your 75% lot coverage, 45 foot height

3763
02:59:33,290 --> 02:59:36,569
, so you can't add a third story, but you're not going to

3764
02:59:36,569 --> 02:59:37,500
anyway.

3765
02:59:37,500 --> 02:59:42,860
But then that does make the rest of it, everything toward

3766
02:59:42,860 --> 02:59:48,819
Elm and Locust, BDCN with 100 foot height, 72 units per

3767
02:59:48,819 --> 02:59:49,500
acre.

3768
02:59:49,500 --> 02:59:51,750
So I'm still not convinced, I'm not comfortable making a

3769
02:59:51,750 --> 02:59:55,370
motion on that yet because, because it still sounds like it

3770
02:59:55,370 --> 02:59:57,500
's, it's too much the other way.

3771
02:59:57,500 --> 02:59:59,969
So I guess those are, those are my comments and thoughts at

3772
02:59:59,969 --> 03:00:00,500
this point.

3773
03:00:00,500 --> 03:00:02,969
And I'd like to see what everybody else on the commission

3774
03:00:02,969 --> 03:00:03,500
thinks.

3775
03:00:03,500 --> 03:00:05,500
Commissioner Ellis.

3776
03:00:05,500 --> 03:00:08,680
Thank you, Chair. I have to echo a lot of what Commissioner

3777
03:00:08,680 --> 03:00:09,500
Taylor said.

3778
03:00:09,500 --> 03:00:12,600
My, my concern is the zoning change. I think the site plan

3779
03:00:12,600 --> 03:00:13,500
is beautiful.

3780
03:00:13,500 --> 03:00:17,120
I think Denton ISD has been a fabulous neighbor in that

3781
03:00:17,120 --> 03:00:21,379
spot and has been there, as you stated, and showed us for

3782
03:00:21,379 --> 03:00:22,500
decades.

3783
03:00:22,500 --> 03:00:26,020
But when we make a zoning change like this, we really do

3784
03:00:26,020 --> 03:00:29,610
have to think about what those unintended consequences

3785
03:00:29,610 --> 03:00:30,500
could be.

3786
03:00:30,500 --> 03:00:33,719
CISD doesn't have any plans that we know of to sell down

3787
03:00:33,719 --> 03:00:34,500
the road.

3788
03:00:34,500 --> 03:00:38,399
But if it does, as it continues to grow and it's going to

3789
03:00:38,399 --> 03:00:41,500
outgrow that site and further building,

3790
03:00:41,500 --> 03:00:45,530
it does set it up to be sold to someone who is going to

3791
03:00:45,530 --> 03:00:49,500
develop it and could put the 100 foot building in,

3792
03:00:49,500 --> 03:00:51,899
could put a bar, could put a restaurant, could put

3793
03:00:51,899 --> 03:00:55,879
something that's not compatible with those homes that, that

3794
03:00:55,879 --> 03:00:57,500
are around there.

3795
03:00:57,500 --> 03:01:01,500
It is just hard for me to support the zoning change.

3796
03:01:01,500 --> 03:01:04,799
I love the plan of the campus. I love the plan of more

3797
03:01:04,799 --> 03:01:06,500
parking, getting it off the street.

3798
03:01:06,500 --> 03:01:09,680
I love the plan of getting rid of the temporary trailer

3799
03:01:09,680 --> 03:01:11,799
that's on it, which is kind of an eyesore for the

3800
03:01:11,799 --> 03:01:12,500
neighborhood.

3801
03:01:12,500 --> 03:01:15,500
That is all really, really good.

3802
03:01:15,500 --> 03:01:19,500
I would love to be able to come up with another way that we

3803
03:01:19,500 --> 03:01:24,659
can help accomplish this without putting the residents at

3804
03:01:24,659 --> 03:01:25,500
risk.

3805
03:01:25,500 --> 03:01:28,229
And I really do think the zoning change puts the

3806
03:01:28,229 --> 03:01:30,500
residential neighborhood at risk.

3807
03:01:30,500 --> 03:01:35,500
And I just can't get behind that.

3808
03:01:35,500 --> 03:01:36,500
Commissioner Rosell.

3809
03:01:36,500 --> 03:01:37,500
Thank you, Chair.

3810
03:01:37,500 --> 03:01:40,819
I brought this up in work session, but I feel obliged to

3811
03:01:40,819 --> 03:01:44,500
bring it up again and maybe ask a more specific question.

3812
03:01:44,500 --> 03:01:47,530
Generally speaking, when we see a transition from one zone

3813
03:01:47,530 --> 03:01:51,620
to another zone, there is a distinct buffer or kind of an

3814
03:01:51,620 --> 03:01:54,500
understood barrier that would separate the two.

3815
03:01:54,500 --> 03:01:58,559
Is that generally correct? And what the city tries to do is

3816
03:01:58,559 --> 03:02:02,500
have some sort of road or land that buffers two zones?

3817
03:02:02,500 --> 03:02:05,500
No, it's not a general premise.

3818
03:02:05,500 --> 03:02:08,790
However, in terms of land use analysis, you look at the

3819
03:02:08,790 --> 03:02:12,219
existing zoning, you look at the zoning pattern, you try

3820
03:02:12,219 --> 03:02:15,500
and study that and see how that's evolved over the years.

3821
03:02:15,500 --> 03:02:17,850
And then you look at the surrounding land use pattern and

3822
03:02:17,850 --> 03:02:20,250
you determine the cohesiveness of what's being proposed

3823
03:02:20,250 --> 03:02:21,500
against what's out there.

3824
03:02:21,500 --> 03:02:24,809
So the physical separation that you're speaking of, those

3825
03:02:24,809 --> 03:02:27,500
are factors associated in decision making.

3826
03:02:27,500 --> 03:02:33,500
So they could be a fence, a tree line, a right of way mason

3827
03:02:33,500 --> 03:02:35,500
ry screen wall.

3828
03:02:35,500 --> 03:02:38,500
All those factors come into consideration when we assess.

3829
03:02:38,500 --> 03:02:43,950
Sure. And I guess my point in that question is there's the

3830
03:02:43,950 --> 03:02:49,500
zoning change between DR2 and NR3 is some say an alley.

3831
03:02:49,500 --> 03:02:53,500
If that is an alley, it runs three blocks.

3832
03:02:53,500 --> 03:02:55,500
But above that, there's not an alley.

3833
03:02:55,500 --> 03:02:59,500
So it seems the way current zoning is on Elm Street,

3834
03:02:59,500 --> 03:03:01,500
someone could go in right now and build a 45 foot building

3835
03:03:01,500 --> 03:03:05,500
and their backyard being NR3 property.

3836
03:03:05,500 --> 03:03:08,340
To me, that's not much of a buffer. It seems like the

3837
03:03:08,340 --> 03:03:10,500
natural buffer would be Bolivar Street.

3838
03:03:10,500 --> 03:03:14,450
Sure. So if I'm looking at this and I say the natural

3839
03:03:14,450 --> 03:03:18,340
buffer between two zones would be Bolivar, then there's

3840
03:03:18,340 --> 03:03:19,500
zero encroachment.

3841
03:03:19,500 --> 03:03:23,450
And to Commissioner Hudspeth's point, we're getting into

3842
03:03:23,450 --> 03:03:27,860
half blocks where neighbors have different rights to what

3843
03:03:27,860 --> 03:03:31,500
they can build on their property as it is now.

3844
03:03:31,500 --> 03:03:36,500
I apologize.

3845
03:03:36,500 --> 03:03:37,500
I'm asking a question or?

3846
03:03:37,500 --> 03:03:40,110
Well, I feel like Julie's going to say something I want to

3847
03:03:40,110 --> 03:03:41,500
give her the opportunity.

3848
03:03:41,500 --> 03:03:45,040
I just brought up the map. And I see what you are saying

3849
03:03:45,040 --> 03:03:48,530
because here is that line that you're talking about,

3850
03:03:48,530 --> 03:03:49,500
correct? Right here?

3851
03:03:49,500 --> 03:03:51,540
Yes. Yeah, there's a line between the yellow and the green.

3852
03:03:51,540 --> 03:03:53,500
And part of it is separated by an alley.

3853
03:03:53,500 --> 03:03:57,170
But most of that hard line, as we discussed earlier, is a

3854
03:03:57,170 --> 03:03:58,500
backyard fence.

3855
03:03:58,500 --> 03:04:02,489
You're right. It is. It is. So the houses that front Boliv

3856
03:04:02,489 --> 03:04:06,170
ar have the NR3 zoning designation and then the houses that

3857
03:04:06,170 --> 03:04:09,500
front Elm have the DR2 zoning designation.

3858
03:04:09,500 --> 03:04:11,540
And so it was brought up earlier that there might be, if we

3859
03:04:11,540 --> 03:04:16,500
rezone this property, there might be zoning creep or

3860
03:04:16,500 --> 03:04:19,500
someone could come back and say, my app just crashed.

3861
03:04:19,500 --> 03:04:22,489
Someone could come back and say, oh, they just rezone that.

3862
03:04:22,489 --> 03:04:23,500
I'm going to rezone mine.

3863
03:04:23,500 --> 03:04:28,500
But just north of Third Street on Bolivar, it's zoned NR3.

3864
03:04:28,500 --> 03:04:32,069
They have a case to zone that DR2 right now because their

3865
03:04:32,069 --> 03:04:33,500
backyard is DR2.

3866
03:04:33,500 --> 03:04:36,299
And so I feel like the entire east side of Bolivar could

3867
03:04:36,299 --> 03:04:39,350
probably state claim if they wanted to change that to DR2

3868
03:04:39,350 --> 03:04:41,500
because their neighbors are DR2.

3869
03:04:41,500 --> 03:04:46,659
The threat of zoning creep across Bolivar becomes less of

3870
03:04:46,659 --> 03:04:51,590
an issue because Bolivar actually seems like a logical del

3871
03:04:51,590 --> 03:04:54,500
ineation between the two zones.

3872
03:04:54,500 --> 03:04:59,399
And so I guess to Commissioner Hudsworth's point, we're now

3873
03:04:59,399 --> 03:05:03,500
in half lots. And yes, we could rezone this.

3874
03:05:03,500 --> 03:05:05,110
They could raise the entire thing and probably make a

3875
03:05:05,110 --> 03:05:07,500
profit. And that does concern me.

3876
03:05:07,500 --> 03:05:10,319
But if they do build a $29 million complex made for offices

3877
03:05:10,319 --> 03:05:12,799
, the likelihood of them selling that to someone who's going

3878
03:05:12,799 --> 03:05:15,500
to tear down that to build a massive apartment complex

3879
03:05:15,500 --> 03:05:18,500
probably doesn't make financial sense.

3880
03:05:18,500 --> 03:05:22,049
So I guess the only concern I would have is this lingering

3881
03:05:22,049 --> 03:05:26,950
idea that they could get this rezoned and then DNISD could

3882
03:05:26,950 --> 03:05:32,500
turn a profit by just wiping out all of that.

3883
03:05:32,500 --> 03:05:35,870
Is your staff going to pass? I didn't necessarily present a

3884
03:05:35,870 --> 03:05:37,500
question. I understand that. But those are my concerns.

3885
03:05:37,500 --> 03:05:41,899
I really appreciate what you've just raised. And perhaps

3886
03:05:41,899 --> 03:05:45,399
there was lack of clarity in staff's analysis or

3887
03:05:45,399 --> 03:05:49,500
presentation. Julie, I'm speaking of myself.

3888
03:05:49,500 --> 03:05:53,879
When we talk about zoning creep, as you've mentioned, and I

3889
03:05:53,879 --> 03:05:56,739
do like that phrase, the intent was not to say that we're

3890
03:05:56,739 --> 03:05:58,590
looking at a half block and are we going to continue to

3891
03:05:58,590 --> 03:05:59,500
look at half blocks.

3892
03:05:59,500 --> 03:06:03,329
We have to look at each zoning case request as a separate

3893
03:06:03,329 --> 03:06:07,610
entity, as an individual element and see what the potential

3894
03:06:07,610 --> 03:06:08,500
risk is.

3895
03:06:08,500 --> 03:06:12,989
We completely, in our analysis, said we are very supportive

3896
03:06:12,989 --> 03:06:16,120
of what Denton ISD is proposing, the structure of their

3897
03:06:16,120 --> 03:06:16,500
building.

3898
03:06:16,500 --> 03:06:18,059
We completely understand that they're not going to go

3899
03:06:18,059 --> 03:06:21,190
anywhere. And the reality is they will not more than likely

3900
03:06:21,190 --> 03:06:22,500
raise the building.

3901
03:06:22,500 --> 03:06:25,860
But down the road, over the years, and as you've seen the

3902
03:06:25,860 --> 03:06:29,290
land use pattern that's been evolving in the city of Denton

3903
03:06:29,290 --> 03:06:31,659
, we want to make sure that we protect that to the greatest

3904
03:06:31,659 --> 03:06:32,500
extent possible.

3905
03:06:32,500 --> 03:06:35,600
And as a result, the fundamental principle, again, that's

3906
03:06:35,600 --> 03:06:38,500
what was raised, is the fundamental principles here are

3907
03:06:38,500 --> 03:06:41,979
what would happen when, because we have actually been

3908
03:06:41,979 --> 03:06:45,569
approached and have received conversations that state that,

3909
03:06:45,569 --> 03:06:47,959
oh, great, if that happens, now I can go ahead and do my

3910
03:06:47,959 --> 03:06:49,500
property and rezone my property.

3911
03:06:49,500 --> 03:06:52,510
And so when does that stop or when do we stop it or do we

3912
03:06:52,510 --> 03:06:56,020
stop it, you know, do we start assessing that mid-block or

3913
03:06:56,020 --> 03:06:59,799
do we start assessing that when you see a trend of 20 or 30

3914
03:06:59,799 --> 03:07:02,500
properties with pockets of NR3 in there.

3915
03:07:02,500 --> 03:07:06,540
So back to the principle of the fundamental issue is, alley

3916
03:07:06,540 --> 03:07:10,500
or no alley, there is a split zoning on that property.

3917
03:07:10,500 --> 03:07:14,049
We understand that a DCN component of this DISD property

3918
03:07:14,049 --> 03:07:17,809
was already zoned. We also understand that there is a split

3919
03:07:17,809 --> 03:07:18,500
zoning.

3920
03:07:18,500 --> 03:07:21,329
If we had a crystal ball to see what happened in the past,

3921
03:07:21,329 --> 03:07:24,360
that would definitely alleviate some of the questions that

3922
03:07:24,360 --> 03:07:25,500
are raised today.

3923
03:07:25,500 --> 03:07:29,750
And unfortunately we don't. But our goal or our priority at

3924
03:07:29,750 --> 03:07:34,500
this point is to protect a well-established neighborhood.

3925
03:07:34,500 --> 03:07:37,530
Some of these homes are receiving historic landmark design

3926
03:07:37,530 --> 03:07:40,120
ations as well. So we don't want to deter that element as

3927
03:07:40,120 --> 03:07:40,500
well.

3928
03:07:40,500 --> 03:07:44,399
Yet we don't want to deter DISD either. So we're trying to,

3929
03:07:44,399 --> 03:07:48,500
again, this is the land use analysis associated with it.

3930
03:07:48,500 --> 03:07:51,680
But now what do we do to facilitate DISD to be able to go

3931
03:07:51,680 --> 03:07:52,500
vertical?

3932
03:07:52,500 --> 03:07:55,069
I appreciate that. And believe me, there's an internal

3933
03:07:55,069 --> 03:07:57,860
struggle of understanding that we're making decisions that

3934
03:07:57,860 --> 03:08:00,870
are really impactful 40, 50 years down the road that we

3935
03:08:00,870 --> 03:08:02,500
have no ability to foresee.

3936
03:08:02,500 --> 03:08:06,969
And I certainly understand that a fundamental zoning change

3937
03:08:06,969 --> 03:08:10,979
can open doors later on. I value that and the internal

3938
03:08:10,979 --> 03:08:13,500
turmoil about this decision.

3939
03:08:13,500 --> 03:08:19,030
When I look at it today, I see there's DCN there. Based on

3940
03:08:19,030 --> 03:08:23,799
the scale of this map, there's DCN to the east by about 250

3941
03:08:23,799 --> 03:08:24,500
feet.

3942
03:08:24,500 --> 03:08:30,190
Past that is TWA, which their master plan creeps west. And

3943
03:08:30,190 --> 03:08:34,250
I think they've presented again, to Commissioner Taylor's

3944
03:08:34,250 --> 03:08:36,500
point, we can't go off site plans.

3945
03:08:36,500 --> 03:08:40,270
But it seems as though they're trying to cultivate the area

3946
03:08:40,270 --> 03:08:46,250
to beautify it. I think, in my opinion, raise the quality

3947
03:08:46,250 --> 03:08:49,500
of what's existing there.

3948
03:08:49,500 --> 03:08:54,000
And if I can just echo one, not echo, but just iterate, one

3949
03:08:54,000 --> 03:08:58,500
point is that let's assume that the commission recommends

3950
03:08:58,500 --> 03:09:05,500
to rezone the NR3 component or the NR3 district to DR2.

3951
03:09:05,500 --> 03:09:10,500
And then the property just east of that would retain, would

3952
03:09:10,500 --> 03:09:13,500
be rezoned to DCN, for example.

3953
03:09:13,500 --> 03:09:17,829
If there is any overlap of building on that lot that shows

3954
03:09:17,829 --> 03:09:20,959
that split zoning, or there's an overlap on the boundaries

3955
03:09:20,959 --> 03:09:24,500
of the zoning or overlaps onto a different zoning category,

3956
03:09:24,500 --> 03:09:27,329
then the more restrictive zoning category applies as it

3957
03:09:27,329 --> 03:09:30,940
relates to the development standards. And again, back to

3958
03:09:30,940 --> 03:09:34,500
that same struggle, how do we address this?

3959
03:09:34,500 --> 03:09:38,409
Yeah, I guess it's for the record, maybe for the commission

3960
03:09:38,409 --> 03:09:42,559
's edification. I'm leaning towards approving this. I'd be

3961
03:09:42,559 --> 03:09:44,500
open to the DR2/DCN split.

3962
03:09:44,500 --> 03:09:49,719
If that would potentially limit that creep to the west, it

3963
03:09:49,719 --> 03:09:55,500
sounds like there's a minimal understanding on DISD's part.

3964
03:09:55,500 --> 03:10:00,500
So that's kind of where I'm at.

3965
03:10:00,500 --> 03:10:04,500
Okay. Thank you for that.

3966
03:10:04,500 --> 03:10:06,540
I've got three others, so I'll hit you on that.

3967
03:10:06,540 --> 03:10:08,500
Commissioner Hussbett.

3968
03:10:08,500 --> 03:10:10,260
Yeah, I think I pushed my button first. It just doesn't

3969
03:10:10,260 --> 03:10:10,500
work.

3970
03:10:10,500 --> 03:10:11,500
It's not showing up.

3971
03:10:11,500 --> 03:10:16,610
No, it's broken. But so to answer the Monal's question, I

3972
03:10:16,610 --> 03:10:21,250
think, me personally, and I'm very linear. I don't do much

3973
03:10:21,250 --> 03:10:22,500
outside the fringes.

3974
03:10:22,500 --> 03:10:26,100
So my answer to that question is, when do you start to make

3975
03:10:26,100 --> 03:10:29,909
those decisions? I think the answer is when you can enforce

3976
03:10:29,909 --> 03:10:32,500
them consistently. That's the whole thing.

3977
03:10:32,500 --> 03:10:35,000
I think a builder, a developer, anyone, if they can

3978
03:10:35,000 --> 03:10:37,819
approach and understand that we are consistently applying

3979
03:10:37,819 --> 03:10:41,200
statutes, and I don't think that we can consistently

3980
03:10:41,200 --> 03:10:42,500
protect alleys.

3981
03:10:42,500 --> 03:10:46,649
And so that's my answer to that. And I think from

3982
03:10:46,649 --> 03:10:51,819
everything else I've heard, it's the troubling thing for me

3983
03:10:51,819 --> 03:10:56,709
is we're going off on what-ifs and maybe this and

3984
03:10:56,709 --> 03:10:59,500
potentially that and a person called about that,

3985
03:10:59,500 --> 03:11:02,680
whereas we have an active proposal in front of us, and we

3986
03:11:02,680 --> 03:11:06,159
can take those other instances as they come. And I would

3987
03:11:06,159 --> 03:11:09,500
take it, but I'll step into the what-if category.

3988
03:11:09,500 --> 03:11:13,709
So what if BISD says, hey, fine, we'll sell the property

3989
03:11:13,709 --> 03:11:16,500
because we'll go build our campus.

3990
03:11:16,500 --> 03:11:19,690
We've got to understand this is a school district that

3991
03:11:19,690 --> 03:11:23,540
stretches from Denton almost to Little Elm, south almost to

3992
03:11:23,540 --> 03:11:27,500
Carrollton, Louisville area, has four high schools,

3993
03:11:27,500 --> 03:11:31,229
and they've never expanded but four in this particular area

3994
03:11:31,229 --> 03:11:34,500
. I mean, to me, that's exemplary of a good neighbor.

3995
03:11:34,500 --> 03:11:40,500
And someone that has used extreme conservative principles.

3996
03:11:40,500 --> 03:11:44,500
We've had two superintendents for as long as I've known.

3997
03:11:44,500 --> 03:11:49,500
And so I really, I struggle with, one, the consistency.

3998
03:11:49,500 --> 03:11:53,049
That's big for me. I just, I think as builders, and even if

3999
03:11:53,049 --> 03:11:55,500
you take the neighborhood in consideration,

4000
03:11:55,500 --> 03:11:58,680
everyone says their neighborhood needs to be cleaned up.

4001
03:11:58,680 --> 03:12:01,500
And if you look at the people that spoke today, you have

4002
03:12:01,500 --> 03:12:04,500
two in favor and three if you count his rental property.

4003
03:12:04,500 --> 03:12:08,370
And then you have two against and one in the middle based

4004
03:12:08,370 --> 03:12:10,500
on traffic. So we're trying to protect the neighborhood,

4005
03:12:10,500 --> 03:12:13,879
but the neighborhood has spoken and they're about middle of

4006
03:12:13,879 --> 03:12:14,500
the road.

4007
03:12:14,500 --> 03:12:18,940
And so for me, it really is hard to get behind anything but

4008
03:12:18,940 --> 03:12:23,389
moving forward just because it takes a lot of imagination

4009
03:12:23,389 --> 03:12:25,500
to get somewhere else.

4010
03:12:25,500 --> 03:12:29,750
And if I use my imagination, you can, I mean, they have

4011
03:12:29,750 --> 03:12:33,500
four high schools. They're going to need the office space.

4012
03:12:33,500 --> 03:12:35,389
So either they're going to build or they're going to move,

4013
03:12:35,389 --> 03:12:39,500
but something's got to give. You can't force them to stay.

4014
03:12:39,500 --> 03:12:42,090
And then are you excited about your neighborhood that's

4015
03:12:42,090 --> 03:12:44,500
coming in? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not.

4016
03:12:44,500 --> 03:12:47,409
And I think if I look at the map, just to the north of

4017
03:12:47,409 --> 03:12:50,819
there, there's apartments, at least one or two on Bolivar

4018
03:12:50,819 --> 03:12:51,500
there.

4019
03:12:51,500 --> 03:12:56,040
So you're telling me the apartment complexes are better

4020
03:12:56,040 --> 03:13:01,500
than office building with office park. I disagree.

4021
03:13:01,500 --> 03:13:06,069
So that's where I really get hung up is if you look at that

4022
03:13:06,069 --> 03:13:10,379
area, even the homes are businesses. You know, it's like

4023
03:13:10,379 --> 03:13:12,500
you can't it is it is very interesting to me.

4024
03:13:12,500 --> 03:13:19,500
But thank you. Commissioner Taylor. Thank you, Chair.

4025
03:13:19,500 --> 03:13:23,260
So I just wanted to point out that we started referring to

4026
03:13:23,260 --> 03:13:27,000
as half blocks as zoning boundaries is really common,

4027
03:13:27,000 --> 03:13:29,500
especially in this neighborhood.

4028
03:13:29,500 --> 03:13:32,909
If you go over to Westway between Westway and University

4029
03:13:32,909 --> 03:13:36,500
Drive, you have CMG, which is an extremely high density

4030
03:13:36,500 --> 03:13:39,500
commercial sharing a back fence with N.R.

4031
03:13:39,500 --> 03:13:43,500
three. And that's, you know, 40 or 50 houses in a row.

4032
03:13:43,500 --> 03:13:46,930
If you go to Ector, which we just had a zoning case on

4033
03:13:46,930 --> 03:13:49,500
earlier tonight, Ector is N.R.

4034
03:13:49,500 --> 03:13:54,500
one. It's only the houses that directly face Ector are N.R.

4035
03:13:54,500 --> 03:13:59,500
one. All of the back fences are N.R. four and N.R. three.

4036
03:13:59,500 --> 03:14:01,760
You know, you can do this around the historic district all

4037
03:14:01,760 --> 03:14:02,500
over on campus.

4038
03:14:02,500 --> 03:14:06,500
Back fences are a really common zoning boundary.

4039
03:14:06,500 --> 03:14:12,500
So to say that we can't zone on back fences or half blocks,

4040
03:14:12,500 --> 03:14:14,500
that's that's pretty dangerous, especially when you're

4041
03:14:14,500 --> 03:14:18,500
looking at the street where the entire six or eight blocks,

4042
03:14:18,500 --> 03:14:22,629
ten blocks of the street is split on that half block. And

4043
03:14:22,629 --> 03:14:26,250
it's very consistent. There aren't any businesses in the N.

4044
03:14:26,250 --> 03:14:26,500
R.

4045
03:14:26,500 --> 03:14:31,110
three area on Bolivar. There are a lot of businesses in the

4046
03:14:31,110 --> 03:14:31,500
D.R.

4047
03:14:31,500 --> 03:14:39,500
two area and the D.C.N. area on Locust and Elm.

4048
03:14:39,500 --> 03:14:43,799
But that zoning stands whenever we had the use map up

4049
03:14:43,799 --> 03:14:48,500
earlier, there were a whole lot of pink things on Locust

4050
03:14:48,500 --> 03:14:49,500
and Elm. There weren't any on Bolivar.

4051
03:14:49,500 --> 03:14:53,139
But again, D.R. two to me is almost N.R. three. It's very

4052
03:14:53,139 --> 03:14:53,500
close.

4053
03:14:53,500 --> 03:14:57,059
So I don't I agree that N.R. D.R. two would would probably

4054
03:14:57,059 --> 03:14:58,500
be appropriate on Bolivar.

4055
03:14:58,500 --> 03:15:05,059
Then the next question is, is D.C.N. appropriate on Locust

4056
03:15:05,059 --> 03:15:06,500
and Elm?

4057
03:15:06,500 --> 03:15:11,500
Commissioner Ellis. Thank you, Chair.

4058
03:15:11,500 --> 03:15:15,600
I guess my point is, is just because we look at the current

4059
03:15:15,600 --> 03:15:19,500
zoning doesn't mean it's all such the right thing.

4060
03:15:19,500 --> 03:15:23,170
And we do to echo Manal's point, we do have to take each

4061
03:15:23,170 --> 03:15:25,500
request very specifically.

4062
03:15:25,500 --> 03:15:28,680
Nobody is saying again that Denton ISD has been a bad

4063
03:15:28,680 --> 03:15:30,500
neighbor. They really haven't.

4064
03:15:30,500 --> 03:15:36,200
But truly, if you go to the corner of Bolivar and and third

4065
03:15:36,200 --> 03:15:39,500
, it's it it does look out of sorts for the neighborhood,

4066
03:15:39,500 --> 03:15:40,500
the building.

4067
03:15:40,500 --> 03:15:42,260
I know it's been there forever. And when it was a school, I

4068
03:15:42,260 --> 03:15:43,500
'm sure it was a little more appropriate.

4069
03:15:43,500 --> 03:15:47,500
It does look odd. It is a residential neighborhood with

4070
03:15:47,500 --> 03:15:51,000
historic homes on it that people are actually rehabbing and

4071
03:15:51,000 --> 03:15:54,500
selling for, you know, three hundred thousand plus.

4072
03:15:54,500 --> 03:15:59,010
It's to change the zoning again, just to reiterate my

4073
03:15:59,010 --> 03:16:04,780
earlier point, we do set up possibly bad things for the

4074
03:16:04,780 --> 03:16:05,500
neighborhood.

4075
03:16:05,500 --> 03:16:08,270
And that is our responsibility to think about. No, we don't

4076
03:16:08,270 --> 03:16:11,670
have a crystal ball for the future, but it is something we

4077
03:16:11,670 --> 03:16:15,159
have to take into consideration when we're making a zoning

4078
03:16:15,159 --> 03:16:18,040
change, because we could have something there one day that

4079
03:16:18,040 --> 03:16:19,500
doesn't need to be there.

4080
03:16:19,500 --> 03:16:26,500
OK, Commissioner Sullivan. Thank you, Chair.

4081
03:16:26,500 --> 03:16:30,159
As I take a walk through Google map going around the

4082
03:16:30,159 --> 03:16:36,500
neighborhood, what I see is a lot of trees, grass areas,

4083
03:16:36,500 --> 03:16:40,399
low profile homes, first one story homes, low profile

4084
03:16:40,399 --> 03:16:41,500
buildings.

4085
03:16:41,500 --> 03:16:45,920
The ISD is probably is the two story, one of the few. And I

4086
03:16:45,920 --> 03:16:50,079
try to imagine a three story building going into that in

4087
03:16:50,079 --> 03:16:51,500
the same area.

4088
03:16:51,500 --> 03:16:55,110
And since you mentioned earlier, you're really separating

4089
03:16:55,110 --> 03:16:58,290
out two distinct services in the building that this is

4090
03:16:58,290 --> 03:17:01,670
going to be for support and not necessarily what the other

4091
03:17:01,670 --> 03:17:02,500
one was.

4092
03:17:02,500 --> 03:17:06,750
I can't recall. And so I just keep thinking, why here out

4093
03:17:06,750 --> 03:17:10,909
of all the property the ISD has and what's available in the

4094
03:17:10,909 --> 03:17:12,500
in the in Denton?

4095
03:17:12,500 --> 03:17:17,219
Why this location? Because I just don't see how it would

4096
03:17:17,219 --> 03:17:19,500
fit in with the I mean, the architecture.

4097
03:17:19,500 --> 03:17:23,020
It looks great. I don't think it would look good here,

4098
03:17:23,020 --> 03:17:23,500
though.

4099
03:17:23,500 --> 03:17:28,629
And I think that that would be my concern is that it would

4100
03:17:28,629 --> 03:17:33,739
stick out like a sore thumb and not be conducive with the

4101
03:17:33,739 --> 03:17:38,500
the older homes and the low profile buildings.

4102
03:17:38,500 --> 03:17:41,500
Commissioner Oso. Thank you, Chair.

4103
03:17:41,500 --> 03:17:46,500
I want to just take advantage of clarifying, Mr. Taylor.

4104
03:17:46,500 --> 03:17:51,510
Are you saying that since there's been other times in which

4105
03:17:51,510 --> 03:17:56,250
we've zoned half blocks, that's the ideal we should be

4106
03:17:56,250 --> 03:17:57,500
going for?

4107
03:17:57,500 --> 03:17:59,500
So I don't think it's an ideal.

4108
03:17:59,500 --> 03:18:03,239
Thank you. I don't think it's an ideal, but I think it

4109
03:18:03,239 --> 03:18:04,500
clearly works.

4110
03:18:04,500 --> 03:18:07,879
There's there are successful neighborhoods, a budding

4111
03:18:07,879 --> 03:18:11,500
commercial properties and that back fence is the border.

4112
03:18:11,500 --> 03:18:14,399
And personally, I would rather share a back fence than a

4113
03:18:14,399 --> 03:18:16,500
side fence or face across the street.

4114
03:18:16,500 --> 03:18:19,680
I don't want my I would rather have my back fence next to

4115
03:18:19,680 --> 03:18:23,180
an apartment or a commercial development than my front door

4116
03:18:23,180 --> 03:18:23,500
.

4117
03:18:23,500 --> 03:18:25,899
So unless there's like some kind of tall light or something

4118
03:18:25,899 --> 03:18:27,500
like that shining in the backyard.

4119
03:18:27,500 --> 03:18:30,239
Yeah, gotcha. And we've we've said the same commission and

4120
03:18:30,239 --> 03:18:32,850
done that with backyards and understanding where front

4121
03:18:32,850 --> 03:18:33,500
doors face.

4122
03:18:33,500 --> 03:18:38,200
And so I agree with you that it can happen. I'm not against

4123
03:18:38,200 --> 03:18:38,500
it.

4124
03:18:38,500 --> 03:18:44,860
My point rather in time with the half blocks was to say

4125
03:18:44,860 --> 03:18:48,500
that in within a block, there's already two zoning.

4126
03:18:48,500 --> 03:18:52,760
So I don't know if changing the zoning for this is going to

4127
03:18:52,760 --> 03:18:56,500
necessarily promote or start advocating for that zone creep

4128
03:18:56,500 --> 03:19:03,500
more so than these half blocks that are zoned differently.

4129
03:19:03,500 --> 03:19:05,500
Commissioner Tyler. Thank you.

4130
03:19:05,500 --> 03:19:09,149
Yeah, no, I agree that there's there are questions of how

4131
03:19:09,149 --> 03:19:10,500
big a deal is this?

4132
03:19:10,500 --> 03:19:13,600
But, you know, and I think your initial statement might

4133
03:19:13,600 --> 03:19:16,930
have it sounded very broad to me, like we shouldn't be

4134
03:19:16,930 --> 03:19:19,500
splitting half blocks by zoning.

4135
03:19:19,500 --> 03:19:23,840
And so if you say that, then all of the east side of Boliv

4136
03:19:23,840 --> 03:19:27,500
ar immediately becomes like ready to be D.R.

4137
03:19:27,500 --> 03:19:31,370
to then the subcommittee starts working much harder to

4138
03:19:31,370 --> 03:19:35,500
align. Yeah, you mentioned that you believe D.R.

4139
03:19:35,500 --> 03:19:38,500
to is not too far off from N.R. three.

4140
03:19:38,500 --> 03:19:44,170
Are what are your thoughts on making the property that

4141
03:19:44,170 --> 03:19:47,500
faces or a but Bolivar D.R.

4142
03:19:47,500 --> 03:19:52,500
two and the Elm side D.C.N.

4143
03:19:52,500 --> 03:19:59,500
So I I think that D.R. two would be appropriate on Bolivar

4144
03:19:59,500 --> 03:20:00,500
without much problem.

4145
03:20:00,500 --> 03:20:03,200
It's it's it allows higher lot coverage and like a five

4146
03:20:03,200 --> 03:20:04,500
foot higher roof line.

4147
03:20:04,500 --> 03:20:06,500
But it's primarily a residential zoning.

4148
03:20:06,500 --> 03:20:09,500
The problem is D.R. two isn't quite high enough.

4149
03:20:09,500 --> 03:20:12,500
It's five feet short of what they need for their building.

4150
03:20:12,500 --> 03:20:16,500
And then that's where the concern about I mentioned D.C.N.

4151
03:20:16,500 --> 03:20:22,500
on Oak and I'm sorry, Elm and Locust.

4152
03:20:22,500 --> 03:20:25,680
Then that becomes the rezone risk really is the only risk

4153
03:20:25,680 --> 03:20:26,500
of that one.

4154
03:20:26,500 --> 03:20:29,500
I think that that solves the encroachment risk.

4155
03:20:29,500 --> 03:20:33,040
And then we just have to consider kind of the new builder

4156
03:20:33,040 --> 03:20:36,500
or change of property ownership risk.

4157
03:20:36,500 --> 03:20:39,500
No sense. Thank you.

4158
03:20:39,500 --> 03:20:41,500
Commissioner Hussman.

4159
03:20:41,500 --> 03:20:46,500
Sorry, I would like to hear from someone.

4160
03:20:46,500 --> 03:20:48,500
Anyone.

4161
03:20:48,500 --> 03:20:50,500
First, let's start this.

4162
03:20:50,500 --> 03:20:54,350
I'd love to hear the summary of the thought and the future

4163
03:20:54,350 --> 03:20:55,500
land use map.

4164
03:20:55,500 --> 03:20:59,500
Right. So someone put time effort thought into that.

4165
03:20:59,500 --> 03:21:01,500
I'm assuming Manal is that right.

4166
03:21:01,500 --> 03:21:03,500
I mean, generally. Absolutely.

4167
03:21:03,500 --> 03:21:09,500
OK. So the future land use map says that half block

4168
03:21:09,500 --> 03:21:10,500
included all the way up to

4169
03:21:10,500 --> 03:21:15,500
university as far as I can see is consistent in the future

4170
03:21:15,500 --> 03:21:17,500
that we're trying to predict.

4171
03:21:17,500 --> 03:21:21,500
And so I'd love to hear from I've heard conversations,

4172
03:21:21,500 --> 03:21:25,020
but I've not heard anyone speak to why we should ignore the

4173
03:21:25,020 --> 03:21:26,500
future land use map.

4174
03:21:26,500 --> 03:21:28,500
Well, we're not. OK.

4175
03:21:28,500 --> 03:21:31,729
And I think this is a great opportunity to bring that slide

4176
03:21:31,729 --> 03:21:32,500
forward.

4177
03:21:32,500 --> 03:21:35,500
Julie, the slide where you've got the underlined component.

4178
03:21:35,500 --> 03:21:39,670
Let's talk and let's talk about the we're going to talk

4179
03:21:39,670 --> 03:21:41,500
about the future land use map.

4180
03:21:41,500 --> 03:21:44,500
We all know what low density residential is,

4181
03:21:44,500 --> 03:21:47,500
but I think Julie encompass the language as it relates to

4182
03:21:47,500 --> 03:21:48,500
downtown compatibility area,

4183
03:21:48,500 --> 03:21:50,500
and I won't do it justice.

4184
03:21:50,500 --> 03:21:53,500
But what does that encompass the downtown compatible?

4185
03:21:53,500 --> 03:21:56,680
Again, the future land use map is not reflecting zoning

4186
03:21:56,680 --> 03:21:57,500
districts.

4187
03:21:57,500 --> 03:21:59,500
So now let's break that down.

4188
03:21:59,500 --> 03:22:02,020
Julie, you had a really good phrase that you had used

4189
03:22:02,020 --> 03:22:02,500
earlier.

4190
03:22:02,500 --> 03:22:06,500
I actually borrowed it from Mike.

4191
03:22:06,500 --> 03:22:09,809
But the downtown compatibility area isn't necessarily one

4192
03:22:09,809 --> 03:22:11,500
particular zoning district.

4193
03:22:11,500 --> 03:22:15,469
It could encompass a lot of them and DCN could be one, DR1,

4194
03:22:15,469 --> 03:22:17,500
DR2.

4195
03:22:17,500 --> 03:22:21,450
But what we have to do is look at the individual character

4196
03:22:21,450 --> 03:22:22,500
of that area

4197
03:22:22,500 --> 03:22:28,409
and make sure that that the zoning districts are compatible

4198
03:22:28,409 --> 03:22:29,500
next to each other.

4199
03:22:29,500 --> 03:22:31,959
So when they're adjacent to each other, there's an

4200
03:22:31,959 --> 03:22:33,500
appropriate transition.

4201
03:22:33,500 --> 03:22:38,500
And so in relationship to this case, when we look at DCN

4202
03:22:38,500 --> 03:22:41,500
and then the adjacent zoning districts,

4203
03:22:41,500 --> 03:22:44,500
we see there's a lot of incompatibility with scale.

4204
03:22:44,500 --> 03:22:47,680
So it's not necessarily DCN isn't compatible with the

4205
03:22:47,680 --> 03:22:49,500
downtown compatibility area,

4206
03:22:49,500 --> 03:22:55,489
but it's not appropriate in this location because of the

4207
03:22:55,489 --> 03:22:58,500
intent to make sure you strengthen

4208
03:22:58,500 --> 03:23:01,790
not only the downtown development pattern, but the

4209
03:23:01,790 --> 03:23:03,500
neighborhoods as well.

4210
03:23:03,500 --> 03:23:06,600
And so it's meant to transition from that downtown to the

4211
03:23:06,600 --> 03:23:07,500
neighborhoods.

4212
03:23:07,500 --> 03:23:12,620
And so DCN could be appropriate, but it's not all in every

4213
03:23:12,620 --> 03:23:13,500
case.

4214
03:23:13,500 --> 03:23:14,500
Did that answer it?

4215
03:23:14,500 --> 03:23:15,500
Continue.

4216
03:23:15,500 --> 03:23:16,500
Yes.

4217
03:23:16,500 --> 03:23:18,500
So yes.

4218
03:23:18,500 --> 03:23:27,250
And so under this future land use, single family houses fit

4219
03:23:27,250 --> 03:23:27,500
?

4220
03:23:27,500 --> 03:23:29,500
In downtown compatibility area?

4221
03:23:29,500 --> 03:23:30,500
Yes.

4222
03:23:30,500 --> 03:23:34,500
Well, that would depend on the specific area.

4223
03:23:34,500 --> 03:23:35,500
Probably not.

4224
03:23:35,500 --> 03:23:42,500
I mean, this is on the edge of the low density residential

4225
03:23:42,500 --> 03:23:43,500
in the downtown compatibility area.

4226
03:23:43,500 --> 03:23:46,500
So we can't just look at that future land use.

4227
03:23:46,500 --> 03:23:50,500
We have to look at that transition between the two.

4228
03:23:50,500 --> 03:23:52,899
So that's where you get that NR3 because there's a

4229
03:23:52,899 --> 03:23:54,500
transition between those two.

4230
03:23:54,500 --> 03:23:58,260
And then we have to look even deeper at what the character

4231
03:23:58,260 --> 03:23:59,500
of that area is.

4232
03:23:59,500 --> 03:24:04,530
So this is the overarching ideal and goals, but you have to

4233
03:24:04,530 --> 03:24:06,500
really drill down to the details as well.

4234
03:24:06,500 --> 03:24:10,500
That can't inform everything.

4235
03:24:10,500 --> 03:24:11,500
Continue.

4236
03:24:11,500 --> 03:24:12,500
Sure.

4237
03:24:12,500 --> 03:24:13,500
I agree.

4238
03:24:13,500 --> 03:24:17,479
But the property in question using your picture is in the

4239
03:24:17,479 --> 03:24:21,500
middle far -- not far, just to the outside of the blend.

4240
03:24:21,500 --> 03:24:26,069
So if I'm looking at low residential being single family

4241
03:24:26,069 --> 03:24:29,670
homes is outside the blend, then you have the blend where

4242
03:24:29,670 --> 03:24:31,500
you're going to bring those two uses together.

4243
03:24:31,500 --> 03:24:32,500
Right.

4244
03:24:32,500 --> 03:24:34,500
Then you have the proposed property.

4245
03:24:34,500 --> 03:24:40,049
And so based on just what you said, not holding you to it,

4246
03:24:40,049 --> 03:24:44,540
but using it, a single -- we're trying to protect single

4247
03:24:44,540 --> 03:24:47,659
family houses in a future land use area that doesn't

4248
03:24:47,659 --> 03:24:49,500
support single family houses.

4249
03:24:49,500 --> 03:24:51,870
And I understand where you're -- I understand what you're

4250
03:24:51,870 --> 03:24:52,500
looking at.

4251
03:24:52,500 --> 03:24:55,500
I think you're looking too -- you're looking too narrowly.

4252
03:24:55,500 --> 03:24:59,030
You've got to go up a little higher and say that these are

4253
03:24:59,030 --> 03:25:00,500
the general areas.

4254
03:25:00,500 --> 03:25:03,149
And that's why those blend areas look like water was built

4255
03:25:03,149 --> 03:25:06,299
on the future land use map is because we didn't want those

4256
03:25:06,299 --> 03:25:10,590
hard parcel lines because it really doesn't often -- it

4257
03:25:10,590 --> 03:25:12,500
doesn't always reflect what's going on in the ground.

4258
03:25:12,500 --> 03:25:15,500
So that's why we wanted that blending area.

4259
03:25:15,500 --> 03:25:17,500
It's not a hard and fast line.

4260
03:25:17,500 --> 03:25:20,500
It is -- there's a fluidity there.

4261
03:25:20,500 --> 03:25:22,500
Yeah, and I understand.

4262
03:25:22,500 --> 03:25:24,500
So I'm going to switch gears now.

4263
03:25:24,500 --> 03:25:29,969
So as it's zoned currently, if DISD sells it and someone

4264
03:25:29,969 --> 03:25:35,360
else moves in, they're free to build whatever uses are

4265
03:25:35,360 --> 03:25:37,500
currently there.

4266
03:25:37,500 --> 03:25:39,500
I mean, they're free to build those things.

4267
03:25:39,500 --> 03:25:41,909
Whatever is currently permitted in the zoning districts,

4268
03:25:41,909 --> 03:25:42,500
yes, sir.

4269
03:25:42,500 --> 03:25:43,500
Right.

4270
03:25:43,500 --> 03:25:44,500
Okay.

4271
03:25:44,500 --> 03:25:45,500
Thank you.

4272
03:25:45,500 --> 03:25:46,500
Sure.

4273
03:25:46,500 --> 03:25:52,500
We have a question for the applicant.

4274
03:25:52,500 --> 03:25:54,500
You've heard all the discussion.

4275
03:25:54,500 --> 03:25:57,500
We're kind of all over the board here.

4276
03:25:57,500 --> 03:26:00,500
Yes, sir.

4277
03:26:00,500 --> 03:26:04,030
My concern as chair and sitting through these meetings over

4278
03:26:04,030 --> 03:26:07,510
many years of trying to do, well, maybe variance, maybe we

4279
03:26:07,510 --> 03:26:10,540
'll kind of mix and match the zoning and come up with a

4280
03:26:10,540 --> 03:26:11,500
compromise.

4281
03:26:11,500 --> 03:26:15,549
It's my experience in the past when we do that, a lot of

4282
03:26:15,549 --> 03:26:19,170
times the feedback is we made a boo-boo because we did

4283
03:26:19,170 --> 03:26:22,809
something a little quicker and didn't have as much time to

4284
03:26:22,809 --> 03:26:24,500
study all the facts.

4285
03:26:24,500 --> 03:26:27,770
I know this item has been pulled more than once from our

4286
03:26:27,770 --> 03:26:28,500
agenda.

4287
03:26:28,500 --> 03:26:32,940
And I don't know if you're open to having this continued

4288
03:26:32,940 --> 03:26:37,680
and to give not only yourselves but staff an opportunity to

4289
03:26:37,680 --> 03:26:41,930
make another run at this and come back to us or if you'd

4290
03:26:41,930 --> 03:26:46,500
prefer us to move forward here and let the cards follow

4291
03:26:46,500 --> 03:26:47,500
some way.

4292
03:26:47,500 --> 03:26:51,049
I think we'd like the opportunity to work with staff and

4293
03:26:51,049 --> 03:26:54,579
perhaps again look at the ZBA process and see which way we

4294
03:26:54,579 --> 03:26:55,500
can go.

4295
03:26:55,500 --> 03:27:00,500
So I think we would ask, request, propose you to postpone.

4296
03:27:00,500 --> 03:27:01,500
Okay.

4297
03:27:01,500 --> 03:27:03,500
Well, continue.

4298
03:27:03,500 --> 03:27:04,500
Continue.

4299
03:27:04,500 --> 03:27:07,600
And that's my sense as well because I think we've had a

4300
03:27:07,600 --> 03:27:10,889
really good discussion of a lot of the different facts we

4301
03:27:10,889 --> 03:27:13,500
've heard from citizens and neighbors.

4302
03:27:13,500 --> 03:27:16,290
And I don't feel like there's really a place where it's

4303
03:27:16,290 --> 03:27:19,500
really clear after all the discussion, all the impact.

4304
03:27:19,500 --> 03:27:22,500
Well, I think everybody's formed a consensus over here.

4305
03:27:22,500 --> 03:27:26,770
I'd like to go ahead and make a motion then that we

4306
03:27:26,770 --> 03:27:28,500
continue this.

4307
03:27:28,500 --> 03:27:30,500
What would be a reasonable timeframe?

4308
03:27:30,500 --> 03:27:35,500
I'm going to ask for some input from staff.

4309
03:27:35,500 --> 03:27:40,209
In order to place the item, I don't have the ZBA schedule

4310
03:27:40,209 --> 03:27:42,500
in front of me right now.

4311
03:27:42,500 --> 03:27:43,500
End of October.

4312
03:27:43,500 --> 03:27:46,500
So November would be the first ZBA meeting.

4313
03:27:46,500 --> 03:27:50,030
The first Monday in November, if I'm not mistaken, or the

4314
03:27:50,030 --> 03:27:53,600
last Monday in November would be the first meeting for ZBA,

4315
03:27:53,600 --> 03:27:57,829
which gives sufficient time for us to talk, receive

4316
03:27:57,829 --> 03:27:58,500
application.

4317
03:27:58,500 --> 03:27:59,500
Did I get the date wrong?

4318
03:27:59,500 --> 03:28:00,500
I apologize.

4319
03:28:00,500 --> 03:28:02,500
Last Monday of October.

4320
03:28:02,500 --> 03:28:04,500
Last Monday of October, I apologize.

4321
03:28:04,500 --> 03:28:06,899
So I believe we still have an opportunity to hit that

4322
03:28:06,899 --> 03:28:07,500
meeting.

4323
03:28:07,500 --> 03:28:10,500
Let's -- we will -- I'm sorry.

4324
03:28:10,500 --> 03:28:12,500
You have a publication deadline.

4325
03:28:12,500 --> 03:28:13,500
I'm thinking about publication.

4326
03:28:13,500 --> 03:28:16,500
I know it's going to be very tight to meet the October.

4327
03:28:16,500 --> 03:28:19,600
In order to hit that, we'd have to actually send out

4328
03:28:19,600 --> 03:28:23,500
notification, if I'm not mistaken, by Saturday or Monday.

4329
03:28:23,500 --> 03:28:24,500
So we can look at that.

4330
03:28:24,500 --> 03:28:27,770
Please -- we will coordinate with you first thing tomorrow

4331
03:28:27,770 --> 03:28:28,500
morning.

4332
03:28:28,500 --> 03:28:29,500
Okay.

4333
03:28:29,500 --> 03:28:31,260
And then we will establish the timelines associated with

4334
03:28:31,260 --> 03:28:31,500
that.

4335
03:28:31,500 --> 03:28:37,500
So I would give some leeway, and I would say 60 days.

4336
03:28:37,500 --> 03:28:38,500
60 days.

4337
03:28:38,500 --> 03:28:51,500
Are you okay with that?

4338
03:28:51,500 --> 03:28:54,100
While it's not exactly preferred, I do believe it's going

4339
03:28:54,100 --> 03:28:55,500
to be the method we choose.

4340
03:28:55,500 --> 03:28:58,500
Well, there's certainly more certainty there.

4341
03:28:58,500 --> 03:29:00,500
But the way it sounds like it's going right now.

4342
03:29:00,500 --> 03:29:01,500
Yeah.

4343
03:29:01,500 --> 03:29:04,409
Well, each day that passes, most unfortunately, inflation

4344
03:29:04,409 --> 03:29:06,500
continues, and it's one of those things.

4345
03:29:06,500 --> 03:29:08,500
I'm very anxious to get started.

4346
03:29:08,500 --> 03:29:09,500
Our drawings are complete.

4347
03:29:09,500 --> 03:29:10,500
So this is very exciting.

4348
03:29:10,500 --> 03:29:12,620
If this can get resolved, then we'd be able to see it

4349
03:29:12,620 --> 03:29:13,500
sooner than that.

4350
03:29:13,500 --> 03:29:15,750
We don't want to set it for too soon and not give you the

4351
03:29:15,750 --> 03:29:18,870
opportunity to explore all the options that maybe you can

4352
03:29:18,870 --> 03:29:19,500
get this resolved.

4353
03:29:19,500 --> 03:29:21,500
Yes, sir.

4354
03:29:21,500 --> 03:29:22,500
So 60 days.

4355
03:29:22,500 --> 03:29:25,500
Is that where we're within 60 days?

4356
03:29:25,500 --> 03:29:28,500
It should be done within 60 days.

4357
03:29:28,500 --> 03:29:31,500
Do we need to do a date certain or just 60 days?

4358
03:29:31,500 --> 03:29:33,850
I would continue it to 60 days, and then we'll make sure

4359
03:29:33,850 --> 03:29:35,500
that it's on the subsequent agenda.

4360
03:29:35,500 --> 03:29:37,500
It could be plus or minus a few days.

4361
03:29:37,500 --> 03:29:38,500
Yes.

4362
03:29:38,500 --> 03:29:39,500
Agreed.

4363
03:29:39,500 --> 03:29:40,500
Okay.

4364
03:29:40,500 --> 03:29:41,500
So rather a date certain.

4365
03:29:41,500 --> 03:29:42,500
Okay.

4366
03:29:42,500 --> 03:29:46,500
Well, thank you for the feedback and the consideration.

4367
03:29:46,500 --> 03:29:50,020
With that, the Chair is going to make a motion that this

4368
03:29:50,020 --> 03:29:52,500
item be continued for 60 days.

4369
03:29:52,500 --> 03:29:56,860
And we look forward to either seeing it back here or having

4370
03:29:56,860 --> 03:30:01,500
it resolved another way in as timely a matter as possible.

4371
03:30:01,500 --> 03:30:03,500
With that, Commissioner Beck.

4372
03:30:03,500 --> 03:30:04,500
I second the motion.

4373
03:30:04,500 --> 03:30:05,500
Okay.

4374
03:30:05,500 --> 03:30:07,500
We have a first and a second.

4375
03:30:07,500 --> 03:30:13,500
Any further discussion?

4376
03:30:13,500 --> 03:30:31,500
Seeing none, we'll call for a vote on the board.

4377
03:30:31,500 --> 03:30:33,500
Motion carries 7-0.

4378
03:30:33,500 --> 03:30:45,500
Thank you for a great presentation.

4379
03:30:45,500 --> 03:30:47,500
I'm going to let the room clear.

4380
03:30:47,500 --> 03:30:51,500
And I think as we've gone now for a little over two hours,

4381
03:30:51,500 --> 03:30:54,500
I think we're going to take a short break.

4382
03:30:54,500 --> 03:30:59,500
And then let's reconvene in 10 minutes.

4383
03:30:59,500 --> 03:31:12,500
I'm going to call a recess at 845 and let's try to get back

4384
03:31:12,500 --> 03:31:12,500
.

4385
03:31:12,500 --> 03:31:13,500
Okay.

4386
03:31:13,500 --> 03:31:18,500
I'm going to call our PNC meeting back in order at 855.

4387
03:31:18,500 --> 03:31:22,500
And we're going to continue with our public hearings items.

4388
03:31:22,500 --> 03:31:27,629
And I'm going to open the public hearing for item C, Z16-00

4389
03:31:27,629 --> 03:31:28,500
13.

4390
03:31:28,500 --> 03:31:36,500
I'll call on Mike Bell for that presentation.

4391
03:31:36,500 --> 03:31:38,500
Thank you, Chair, members of the commission.

4392
03:31:38,500 --> 03:31:39,500
Again, it's almost 9.

4393
03:31:39,500 --> 03:31:41,500
I'll ask if you want the short version or the long version.

4394
03:31:41,500 --> 03:31:42,500
Let's try the short.

4395
03:31:42,500 --> 03:31:45,500
I thought you might say that.

4396
03:31:45,500 --> 03:31:46,500
All right.

4397
03:31:46,500 --> 03:31:48,889
So the request is to consider an amendment to the razor

4398
03:31:48,889 --> 03:31:52,889
ranch overlay district to change less than 10 acres, but no

4399
03:31:52,889 --> 03:31:56,500
more than, from a south mixed use sub area to the south R2

4400
03:31:56,500 --> 03:31:57,500
sub area.

4401
03:31:57,500 --> 03:32:01,329
And this requires a changing of two exhibits in the

4402
03:32:01,329 --> 03:32:02,500
ordinance.

4403
03:32:02,500 --> 03:32:05,239
So an overview, the area in yellow is the 410 acres that

4404
03:32:05,239 --> 03:32:06,500
includes razor ranch.

4405
03:32:06,500 --> 03:32:08,500
But at the bottom left, you'll see a double black line.

4406
03:32:08,500 --> 03:32:15,329
That's the roughly 10 acre, less than 10 acre property that

4407
03:32:15,329 --> 03:32:18,500
we're considering tonight.

4408
03:32:18,500 --> 03:32:21,700
What that change includes is the -- this property here, you

4409
03:32:21,700 --> 03:32:25,500
can see it would be going from the south mixed use sub area

4410
03:32:25,500 --> 03:32:26,500
to south R2.

4411
03:32:26,500 --> 03:32:30,540
Which is an extension of what is already present along I-35

4412
03:32:30,540 --> 03:32:34,500
and U.S. 380.

4413
03:32:34,500 --> 03:32:37,500
Additionally, we have site design standards.

4414
03:32:37,500 --> 03:32:39,500
I don't want to bore you with the standards.

4415
03:32:39,500 --> 03:32:42,500
This here is a razor ranch overlay and all the exhibits.

4416
03:32:42,500 --> 03:32:44,500
It's about as big as a development code.

4417
03:32:44,500 --> 03:32:50,409
But essentially, it has sets of architectural standards

4418
03:32:50,409 --> 03:32:53,500
broken up by sub districts.

4419
03:32:53,500 --> 03:32:56,520
And what this would do is keep all the commercial uses that

4420
03:32:56,520 --> 03:32:59,100
are permitted, currently permitted, they would be allowed

4421
03:32:59,100 --> 03:33:00,500
to keep doing those.

4422
03:33:00,500 --> 03:33:03,260
But what it would do is eliminate the ability to do any of

4423
03:33:03,260 --> 03:33:06,860
the residential uses, single family, multi family, town

4424
03:33:06,860 --> 03:33:09,500
homes, things like that, would be eliminated.

4425
03:33:09,500 --> 03:33:11,500
And again, there's no requirement for mixed use.

4426
03:33:11,500 --> 03:33:14,680
They could do pure retail or pure residential if they

4427
03:33:14,680 --> 03:33:15,500
wanted to.

4428
03:33:15,500 --> 03:33:19,500
But under the new proposal, it would just be commercial.

4429
03:33:19,500 --> 03:33:21,500
General regulations are about the same.

4430
03:33:21,500 --> 03:33:24,500
And again, the real crux of this is the design standards,

4431
03:33:24,500 --> 03:33:27,500
the architectural landscape and signage standards.

4432
03:33:27,500 --> 03:33:30,040
They currently do not have standards for the district they

4433
03:33:30,040 --> 03:33:30,500
're in.

4434
03:33:30,500 --> 03:33:32,500
They would like to go to the RR2.

4435
03:33:32,500 --> 03:33:34,500
It's a logical extension.

4436
03:33:34,500 --> 03:33:37,500
And it would allow them to use existing design standards.

4437
03:33:37,500 --> 03:33:41,420
And again, this is kind of the idea of what's been approved

4438
03:33:41,420 --> 03:33:45,670
in the past under these C1, D1, and E1 to give you an idea

4439
03:33:45,670 --> 03:33:47,500
what that looks like.

4440
03:33:47,500 --> 03:33:50,500
Going over the considerations we did in work session.

4441
03:33:50,500 --> 03:33:52,549
It really just boils down to the residential uses being

4442
03:33:52,549 --> 03:33:54,500
removed and the change in the design standards.

4443
03:33:54,500 --> 03:33:57,680
And as we've outlined, we really don't think that's a cause

4444
03:33:57,680 --> 03:33:58,500
of concern.

4445
03:33:58,500 --> 03:34:01,500
For that reason, we will support the request.

4446
03:34:01,500 --> 03:34:03,500
We did send out a notification.

4447
03:34:03,500 --> 03:34:06,500
Received nothing in favor or in opposition.

4448
03:34:06,500 --> 03:34:08,500
And with that, I recommend approval.

4449
03:34:08,500 --> 03:34:12,500
The applicant is here, and I'll stand for any questions.

4450
03:34:12,500 --> 03:34:16,500
Any questions for staff?

4451
03:34:16,500 --> 03:34:19,500
Thank you, Mike.

4452
03:34:19,500 --> 03:34:22,500
The applicant is here and would like to speak?

4453
03:34:22,500 --> 03:34:23,500
No?

4454
03:34:23,500 --> 03:34:24,500
Okay.

4455
03:34:24,500 --> 03:34:25,500
This is a public hearing.

4456
03:34:25,500 --> 03:34:26,500
I have one card.

4457
03:34:26,500 --> 03:34:29,500
And it looks like it has two agenda items on here.

4458
03:34:29,500 --> 03:34:31,500
It would be Michael Hinnan.

4459
03:34:31,500 --> 03:34:36,540
He is marked in opposition requesting he would like to

4460
03:34:36,540 --> 03:34:37,500
speak.

4461
03:34:37,500 --> 03:34:40,500
Okay, Mr. Chair, I think I marked item C and D.

4462
03:34:40,500 --> 03:34:42,500
Yes, we're on 4C.

4463
03:34:42,500 --> 03:34:45,500
Oh, we were on B. I'm sorry.

4464
03:34:45,500 --> 03:34:49,500
That item has been -- I apologize, I didn't announce it.

4465
03:34:49,500 --> 03:34:51,500
It's been withdrawn.

4466
03:34:51,500 --> 03:34:52,500
Should have clarified that.

4467
03:34:52,500 --> 03:34:53,500
I apologize.

4468
03:34:53,500 --> 03:34:56,500
So we are on 4C.

4469
03:34:56,500 --> 03:35:00,500
Michael Hinnan, 724 Thomas Street in Denton.

4470
03:35:00,500 --> 03:35:04,500
My comments actually go to 4C and to D.

4471
03:35:04,500 --> 03:35:08,809
And I noticed in the exhibit B1 that was in our materials

4472
03:35:08,809 --> 03:35:09,500
tonight,

4473
03:35:09,500 --> 03:35:12,500
if you could call that back up again where I could --

4474
03:35:12,500 --> 03:35:16,500
as I'm speaking, that would help be helpful.

4475
03:35:16,500 --> 03:35:17,500
Which page is it?

4476
03:35:17,500 --> 03:35:18,500
I'm sorry.

4477
03:35:18,500 --> 03:35:21,500
B1, exhibit B1.

4478
03:35:21,500 --> 03:35:26,500
Show us that.

4479
03:35:26,500 --> 03:35:30,049
You know, this is the first schematic I've seen in these

4480
03:35:30,049 --> 03:35:30,500
exhibits.

4481
03:35:30,500 --> 03:35:33,069
I'm sure it's been out previously, but it's the first time

4482
03:35:33,069 --> 03:35:33,500
I've seen it.

4483
03:35:33,500 --> 03:35:38,840
Looking down into the -- and I don't have an objection to

4484
03:35:38,840 --> 03:35:40,500
the specific item.

4485
03:35:40,500 --> 03:35:44,770
I do have questions and objections that relate to the

4486
03:35:44,770 --> 03:35:45,500
entire project

4487
03:35:45,500 --> 03:35:49,500
that may be coming before you in subsequent meetings.

4488
03:35:49,500 --> 03:35:55,500
And down in the far southeast corner of the exhibit,

4489
03:35:55,500 --> 03:35:59,780
you see the gas wells that exist at Bonnie Bray and

4490
03:35:59,780 --> 03:36:01,500
Scripture Street.

4491
03:36:01,500 --> 03:36:06,709
And I noticed that the current zoning map, the existing and

4492
03:36:06,709 --> 03:36:07,500
the proposed,

4493
03:36:07,500 --> 03:36:12,670
show some uses that I think are incompatible with our

4494
03:36:12,670 --> 03:36:14,500
current gas well ordinance

4495
03:36:14,500 --> 03:36:20,500
in terms of the setbacks, the single family, the hotel --

4496
03:36:20,500 --> 03:36:24,500
possible hotel use, multifamily uses.

4497
03:36:24,500 --> 03:36:29,500
I believe this zoning map in general shows that those are

4498
03:36:29,500 --> 03:36:30,500
incompatible

4499
03:36:30,500 --> 03:36:34,500
with the setback requirements for reverse setbacks.

4500
03:36:34,500 --> 03:36:37,500
It could be 250 feet or it could be 300 feet,

4501
03:36:37,500 --> 03:36:40,500
depending on what's on the gas well property.

4502
03:36:40,500 --> 03:36:45,500
I wanted to bring that to the commission's attention

4503
03:36:45,500 --> 03:36:53,500
as you start to consider future use of that property.

4504
03:36:53,500 --> 03:36:57,500
Just for clarification, my understanding of the gas wells

4505
03:36:57,500 --> 03:37:02,500
are on the corner of Bonnie Bray and Scripture.

4506
03:37:02,500 --> 03:37:03,500
Yes.

4507
03:37:03,500 --> 03:37:07,030
And the single family stops at Panhandle, the extension of

4508
03:37:07,030 --> 03:37:07,500
Panhandle.

4509
03:37:07,500 --> 03:37:09,500
Is that what you're talking about?

4510
03:37:09,500 --> 03:37:10,500
That's part of it.

4511
03:37:10,500 --> 03:37:14,450
You'll also see that down just to the west of the gas wells

4512
03:37:14,450 --> 03:37:14,500
,

4513
03:37:14,500 --> 03:37:18,500
you'll see what is in blue that has hotels,

4514
03:37:18,500 --> 03:37:21,500
which are protected use under the gas well ordinance.

4515
03:37:21,500 --> 03:37:25,649
And I believe it also has MF, which I suppose is multif

4516
03:37:25,649 --> 03:37:26,500
amily.

4517
03:37:26,500 --> 03:37:30,500
And so residential uses are protected, as I understand it,

4518
03:37:30,500 --> 03:37:34,209
under the gas well ordinance and require at least a 250

4519
03:37:34,209 --> 03:37:35,500
feet setback

4520
03:37:35,500 --> 03:37:37,500
for the land use owner.

4521
03:37:37,500 --> 03:37:40,500
300 feet if the property on the gas well contains

4522
03:37:40,500 --> 03:37:44,500
certain kinds of flammable items on it.

4523
03:37:44,500 --> 03:37:47,500
So that's what I'm drawing attention to.

4524
03:37:47,500 --> 03:37:51,030
I believe that the surrounding areas--and it's hard for me

4525
03:37:51,030 --> 03:37:52,500
to read the scale there exactly,

4526
03:37:52,500 --> 03:37:56,989
but they look like they're within the 250 foot or 300 foot

4527
03:37:56,989 --> 03:37:57,500
lines,

4528
03:37:57,500 --> 03:38:00,690
even the single family to the north of there is within that

4529
03:38:00,690 --> 03:38:01,500
distance.

4530
03:38:01,500 --> 03:38:03,870
So I wanted to bring that to the attention of the

4531
03:38:03,870 --> 03:38:04,500
commission,

4532
03:38:04,500 --> 03:38:05,500
and that's my concern.

4533
03:38:05,500 --> 03:38:06,500
Okay.

4534
03:38:06,500 --> 03:38:09,500
Thank you for your input, and we'll certainly--SAAF is here

4535
03:38:09,500 --> 03:38:10,500
to hear that,

4536
03:38:10,500 --> 03:38:13,500
and I'm sure they can get with the applicant and clear up

4537
03:38:13,500 --> 03:38:15,500
any discrepancies there are

4538
03:38:15,500 --> 03:38:17,500
where there might be a problem with that.

4539
03:38:17,500 --> 03:38:21,500
So thank you for bringing that to our attention.

4540
03:38:21,500 --> 03:38:24,500
Again, this is a public hearing.

4541
03:38:24,500 --> 03:38:27,500
Is there anyone else who would like to speak on this item?

4542
03:38:27,500 --> 03:38:30,500
I do not have any other cards on this item.

4543
03:38:30,500 --> 03:38:33,500
Anyone who would like to speak, please come forward.

4544
03:38:33,500 --> 03:38:36,500
It looks like Mike Bell may have a comment for us.

4545
03:38:36,500 --> 03:38:40,500
I just want to clarify for the gentleman who just spoke.

4546
03:38:40,500 --> 03:38:42,500
We are looking at a general development plan application.

4547
03:38:42,500 --> 03:38:45,840
We have had the conversations with Gas Wells, and the

4548
03:38:45,840 --> 03:38:46,500
property owner--

4549
03:38:46,500 --> 03:38:48,530
the Gas Wells division of the city and the property owner

4550
03:38:48,530 --> 03:38:49,500
will be addressing that

4551
03:38:49,500 --> 03:38:51,530
with the general development plan, and that will come

4552
03:38:51,530 --> 03:38:52,500
before the board,

4553
03:38:52,500 --> 03:38:55,500
so you'll see the resolution to that very issue.

4554
03:38:55,500 --> 03:38:58,500
Okay, so very aware of it and working on it to address it.

4555
03:38:58,500 --> 03:38:59,500
Yes, sir.

4556
03:38:59,500 --> 03:39:00,500
Great.

4557
03:39:00,500 --> 03:39:02,500
Thank you, Mike.

4558
03:39:02,500 --> 03:39:03,500
Let's see.

4559
03:39:03,500 --> 03:39:05,500
Anyone else that wishes to speak?

4560
03:39:05,500 --> 03:39:10,500
I'm going to close the public hearing on item C, Z16-001,

4561
03:39:10,500 --> 03:39:13,500
and I'm going to open that for a motion or discussion.

4562
03:39:13,500 --> 03:39:16,500
Looks like a motion from Commissioner Rozelle.

4563
03:39:16,500 --> 03:39:21,500
I move that we approve item Z16-13.

4564
03:39:21,500 --> 03:39:23,500
Commissioner Hussbuth.

4565
03:39:23,500 --> 03:39:24,500
Yes, I'm back.

4566
03:39:24,500 --> 03:39:25,500
All right.

4567
03:39:25,500 --> 03:39:26,500
I can see you here.

4568
03:39:26,500 --> 03:39:27,500
Thank you.

4569
03:39:27,500 --> 03:39:28,500
Second.

4570
03:39:28,500 --> 03:39:29,500
All right.

4571
03:39:29,500 --> 03:39:31,500
We have a first and a second for approval.

4572
03:39:31,500 --> 03:39:38,500
Any further discussion or comments?

4573
03:39:38,500 --> 03:39:50,500
Seeing none, we'll call for a vote on the board.

4574
03:39:50,500 --> 03:39:53,500
Motion carries 7-0.

4575
03:39:53,500 --> 03:39:55,500
We'll move us to item D.

4576
03:39:55,500 --> 03:40:01,500
I will open the public hearing for Z16-0022,

4577
03:40:01,500 --> 03:40:05,500
and we'll call on Mike Bell to present that item as well.

4578
03:40:05,500 --> 03:40:07,500
Thank you again, Mr. Chair.

4579
03:40:07,500 --> 03:40:09,500
We'll get to the meeting, the item here.

4580
03:40:09,500 --> 03:40:11,500
This is Z16-22.

4581
03:40:11,500 --> 03:40:14,500
This is for the razor ranch multifamily standards.

4582
03:40:14,500 --> 03:40:17,500
The request is to amend the overlay district

4583
03:40:17,500 --> 03:40:21,049
to provide design standards and criteria for multifamily

4584
03:40:21,049 --> 03:40:21,500
development

4585
03:40:21,500 --> 03:40:24,500
in that south mixed-use sub-area,

4586
03:40:24,500 --> 03:40:29,000
and it would require an amendment to exhibit B3 of the

4587
03:40:29,000 --> 03:40:30,500
ordinance.

4588
03:40:30,500 --> 03:40:34,120
As we've talked about, the district is divided into three

4589
03:40:34,120 --> 03:40:34,500
major areas

4590
03:40:34,500 --> 03:40:36,500
in terms of design.

4591
03:40:36,500 --> 03:40:38,500
This would be for the south mixed-use area,

4592
03:40:38,500 --> 03:40:43,500
and it is exhibit C3 specific to south mixed-use.

4593
03:40:43,500 --> 03:40:46,500
In general, we've used the citywide standards as a baseline

4594
03:40:46,500 --> 03:40:46,500
,

4595
03:40:46,500 --> 03:40:50,709
and enhanced them from there, specific for razor ranch,

4596
03:40:50,709 --> 03:40:52,500
unique identity.

4597
03:40:52,500 --> 03:40:54,500
We've provided these sections.

4598
03:40:54,500 --> 03:40:56,840
I provided them in your backup with a comparison to subch

4599
03:40:56,840 --> 03:40:57,500
apter 13.

4600
03:40:57,500 --> 03:41:00,030
Be happy to go through any of those provisions if you'd

4601
03:41:00,030 --> 03:41:00,500
like.

4602
03:41:00,500 --> 03:41:03,489
I also do want to call attention, particularly for

4603
03:41:03,489 --> 03:41:03,500
Commissioner Hudspeth,

4604
03:41:03,500 --> 03:41:05,500
who was not here in the work session.

4605
03:41:05,500 --> 03:41:08,500
I handed some pages out on your chair.

4606
03:41:08,500 --> 03:41:12,500
That is a site plan that has been under review

4607
03:41:12,500 --> 03:41:16,819
that we've reviewed for these proposed criteria and meets

4608
03:41:16,819 --> 03:41:17,500
those criteria.

4609
03:41:17,500 --> 03:41:20,760
So this is the type of development that you would see under

4610
03:41:20,760 --> 03:41:21,500
these standards

4611
03:41:21,500 --> 03:41:23,500
or would be allowed under these standards,

4612
03:41:23,500 --> 03:41:25,500
and you'll be seeing that at your October 12th meeting.

4613
03:41:25,500 --> 03:41:28,110
I just want to give you an impression now what this would

4614
03:41:28,110 --> 03:41:28,500
look like

4615
03:41:28,500 --> 03:41:32,500
in case there were any hesitations.

4616
03:41:32,500 --> 03:41:36,500
Just there for your convenience if you need them.

4617
03:41:36,500 --> 03:41:40,030
This is, again, an idea what those buildings would look

4618
03:41:40,030 --> 03:41:40,500
like.

4619
03:41:40,500 --> 03:41:43,780
We did send out a notification, as this is an overlay

4620
03:41:43,780 --> 03:41:44,500
amendment.

4621
03:41:44,500 --> 03:41:48,500
We received no responses in opposition or in favor,

4622
03:41:48,500 --> 03:41:50,500
and staff recommends approval.

4623
03:41:50,500 --> 03:41:53,500
I'll be happy to stand for any questions.

4624
03:41:53,500 --> 03:41:58,500
Any questions for staff?

4625
03:41:58,500 --> 03:42:01,500
Thank you, Mike.

4626
03:42:01,500 --> 03:42:03,500
I'm calling the applicant.

4627
03:42:03,500 --> 03:42:06,290
We don't have a card from you, but we'd be happy for you to

4628
03:42:06,290 --> 03:42:06,500
speak

4629
03:42:06,500 --> 03:42:10,500
and then fill out a card for us, please.

4630
03:42:10,500 --> 03:42:12,500
Thank you, Commissioner.

4631
03:42:12,500 --> 03:42:14,500
Chairman, my name is Scott Wagner.

4632
03:42:14,500 --> 03:42:18,500
I reside at 1 East Washington in Phoenix, Arizona.

4633
03:42:18,500 --> 03:42:20,500
I've been here for several years.

4634
03:42:20,500 --> 03:42:23,239
I'm here in town about every week or two the past six years

4635
03:42:23,239 --> 03:42:23,500
.

4636
03:42:23,500 --> 03:42:25,600
I'd like to say thank you to everybody for the

4637
03:42:25,600 --> 03:42:26,500
considerations,

4638
03:42:26,500 --> 03:42:29,680
and at any time during a meeting or in between meetings or

4639
03:42:29,680 --> 03:42:30,500
when I'm in town,

4640
03:42:30,500 --> 03:42:34,030
I'm happy to meet with any of you new members to go through

4641
03:42:34,030 --> 03:42:34,500
the project,

4642
03:42:34,500 --> 03:42:36,979
go through the progress, the history, a little bit about

4643
03:42:36,979 --> 03:42:37,500
where we're going,

4644
03:42:37,500 --> 03:42:39,500
what we're about at Razor Ranch.

4645
03:42:39,500 --> 03:42:42,500
We're very excited about the projects.

4646
03:42:42,500 --> 03:42:48,500
These zoning cases are necessary to set the stage for

4647
03:42:48,500 --> 03:42:50,500
applicants to come in soon,

4648
03:42:50,500 --> 03:42:52,500
so we're excited to see some new projects.

4649
03:42:52,500 --> 03:42:55,799
You'll see those site plans and have more detail forth

4650
03:42:55,799 --> 03:42:56,500
coming.

4651
03:42:56,500 --> 03:42:59,319
So at any time if there's any questions, please let me know

4652
03:42:59,319 --> 03:42:59,500
.

4653
03:42:59,500 --> 03:43:00,500
Again, thank you.

4654
03:43:00,500 --> 03:43:01,500
Great. Thank you.

4655
03:43:01,500 --> 03:43:05,500
Any questions for the applicant?

4656
03:43:05,500 --> 03:43:06,500
Thank you.

4657
03:43:06,500 --> 03:43:08,500
Again, this is a public hearing.

4658
03:43:08,500 --> 03:43:11,819
Anyone who would like to speak on this item, please come

4659
03:43:11,819 --> 03:43:14,500
forward at this time.

4660
03:43:14,500 --> 03:43:18,610
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing for Item D, Z

4661
03:43:18,610 --> 03:43:20,500
16-002,

4662
03:43:20,500 --> 03:43:26,500
and we'll open the floor for discussion or motion.

4663
03:43:26,500 --> 03:43:28,500
I apologize.

4664
03:43:28,500 --> 03:43:31,700
Mr. Hinden, would you like to speak on Item D as well, or

4665
03:43:31,700 --> 03:43:32,500
did you cover that in Item C?

4666
03:43:32,500 --> 03:43:34,500
I apologize.

4667
03:43:34,500 --> 03:43:35,500
I do not.

4668
03:43:35,500 --> 03:43:36,500
Okay. Thank you.

4669
03:43:36,500 --> 03:43:39,540
We will leave this item closed, and thank you for the

4670
03:43:39,540 --> 03:43:41,500
clarification.

4671
03:43:41,500 --> 03:43:43,500
Commissioner Beck?

4672
03:43:43,500 --> 03:43:46,500
I move approval of Z16-0022.

4673
03:43:46,500 --> 03:43:48,500
Okay.

4674
03:43:48,500 --> 03:43:50,500
Commissioner Ellis?

4675
03:43:50,500 --> 03:43:51,500
Chair, I second.

4676
03:43:51,500 --> 03:43:52,500
Okay.

4677
03:43:52,500 --> 03:43:53,500
I have a first.

4678
03:43:53,500 --> 03:43:54,500
Thank you.

4679
03:43:54,500 --> 03:43:55,500
I second.

4680
03:43:55,500 --> 03:43:56,500
Great.

4681
03:43:56,500 --> 03:43:57,500
Thank you.

4682
03:43:57,500 --> 03:43:58,500
I call for approval.

4683
03:43:58,500 --> 03:44:04,500
Any discussion or comments?

4684
03:44:04,500 --> 03:44:21,500
Seeing none, we'll call for a vote on the board.

4685
03:44:21,500 --> 03:44:25,500
Motion carries 7-0.

4686
03:44:25,500 --> 03:44:29,149
That will move us to our final item this evening, our

4687
03:44:29,149 --> 03:44:30,500
matrix,

4688
03:44:30,500 --> 03:44:34,500
and any concluding items that we have.

4689
03:44:34,500 --> 03:44:37,500
Commissioner Rosell?

4690
03:44:37,500 --> 03:44:39,500
Thank you, Chair.

4691
03:44:39,500 --> 03:44:42,680
I have a question, and part of this is just to continue the

4692
03:44:42,680 --> 03:44:45,500
Commissioner Brighill legacy here a little bit.

4693
03:44:45,500 --> 03:44:46,500
It's about bikes.

4694
03:44:46,500 --> 03:44:48,500
No, I'm joking.

4695
03:44:48,500 --> 03:44:52,500
It's about landscape requirements.

4696
03:44:52,500 --> 03:44:56,680
She had brought up during her tenure this zero scape idea,

4697
03:44:56,680 --> 03:44:59,500
and seeing tonight the Aldi proposal,

4698
03:44:59,500 --> 03:45:02,790
I really like that they're making these parking islands

4699
03:45:02,790 --> 03:45:04,500
more than just a single tree,

4700
03:45:04,500 --> 03:45:07,500
and actually adding some foliage underneath it.

4701
03:45:07,500 --> 03:45:11,110
But is there -- what is the steps, or how does that look

4702
03:45:11,110 --> 03:45:11,500
like,

4703
03:45:11,500 --> 03:45:17,680
as you start progressing those general requirements to

4704
03:45:17,680 --> 03:45:22,500
promote or to incentivize zero scaping?

4705
03:45:22,500 --> 03:45:25,500
What does that look like?

4706
03:45:25,500 --> 03:45:26,500
Thank you, Commissioner Rosell.

4707
03:45:26,500 --> 03:45:30,500
At this point, if you recall, we are currently looking at

4708
03:45:30,500 --> 03:45:33,500
revising the tree code that's currently underway.

4709
03:45:33,500 --> 03:45:35,889
In fact, we're going to have several workshops associated

4710
03:45:35,889 --> 03:45:36,500
with that.

4711
03:45:36,500 --> 03:45:41,809
Subsequent to that, and almost after a few works, a little

4712
03:45:41,809 --> 03:45:43,500
bit of resolution associated with the tree code,

4713
03:45:43,500 --> 03:45:46,500
we're actually revisiting our landscape ordinance as well,

4714
03:45:46,500 --> 03:45:49,229
which will be accommodating some of these elements that we

4715
03:45:49,229 --> 03:45:51,500
've already heard about, discussed,

4716
03:45:51,500 --> 03:45:53,030
and that we've encouraged, because currently as the

4717
03:45:53,030 --> 03:45:56,500
ordinance stands, it encourages or allows zero scaping.

4718
03:45:56,500 --> 03:45:58,950
But in this instance, we want to evaluate and see the

4719
03:45:58,950 --> 03:46:01,500
opportunity to actually incorporate those and see if there

4720
03:46:01,500 --> 03:46:01,500
's --

4721
03:46:01,500 --> 03:46:05,540
a lot of communities do have incentive programs associated

4722
03:46:05,540 --> 03:46:07,829
with that, and it'll come before you as an amendment to the

4723
03:46:07,829 --> 03:46:11,500
tree ordinance, the landscaping requirements.

4724
03:46:11,500 --> 03:46:12,500
That's great news.

4725
03:46:12,500 --> 03:46:16,969
Would that potentially impact current development that they

4726
03:46:16,969 --> 03:46:20,500
could transition to a more zero scaped model?

4727
03:46:20,500 --> 03:46:24,590
We can create the ordinance or fold language into the

4728
03:46:24,590 --> 03:46:27,850
ordinance that would encourage or enable current

4729
03:46:27,850 --> 03:46:28,500
developments

4730
03:46:28,500 --> 03:46:32,799
to then try and accommodate in being consistent with the

4731
03:46:32,799 --> 03:46:36,430
current or revised ordinance requirements as it relates to

4732
03:46:36,430 --> 03:46:37,500
zero scaping.

4733
03:46:37,500 --> 03:46:38,500
Thank you.

4734
03:46:38,500 --> 03:46:44,500
Commissioner Hesbeth.

4735
03:46:44,500 --> 03:46:48,850
Along those lines, it's not really a matrix issue, but is

4736
03:46:48,850 --> 03:46:54,680
there a way to add a line item to the reports that we

4737
03:46:54,680 --> 03:46:55,500
receive,

4738
03:46:55,500 --> 03:47:00,110
the overall of each project that kind of haywards, if he's

4739
03:47:00,110 --> 03:47:02,500
had an input on -- so, for example, Aldi,

4740
03:47:02,500 --> 03:47:06,059
I know someone had mentioned that they were maintaining

4741
03:47:06,059 --> 03:47:07,500
trees or the groves,

4742
03:47:07,500 --> 03:47:10,600
but is there a way to add a line item just if he has

4743
03:47:10,600 --> 03:47:14,500
something, or even if he doesn't, just to know that he's --

4744
03:47:14,500 --> 03:47:20,209
I just don't know where that would fit in that summary of a

4745
03:47:20,209 --> 03:47:21,500
project.

4746
03:47:21,500 --> 03:47:25,930
Or I guess I'd better say I'd like a specific line item for

4747
03:47:25,930 --> 03:47:28,500
Hayward to have his input to say,

4748
03:47:28,500 --> 03:47:32,500
hey, I looked at the trees, or -- because how would we know

4749
03:47:32,500 --> 03:47:36,500
if there's a particular endangered tree that he was in

4750
03:47:36,500 --> 03:47:37,500
disagreement with?

4751
03:47:37,500 --> 03:47:40,500
I'd like to have a category for that.

4752
03:47:40,500 --> 03:47:43,030
I understand what you're saying, and it could be applicable

4753
03:47:43,030 --> 03:47:46,500
to some of the cases, such as our alternative ESAs,

4754
03:47:46,500 --> 03:47:49,159
or if you have an ADP associated with that, if it's a

4755
03:47:49,159 --> 03:47:52,079
straight zoning and there's a site plan, obviously there's

4756
03:47:52,079 --> 03:47:52,500
no review.

4757
03:47:52,500 --> 03:47:55,500
However, if you have, for instance, an overlay district

4758
03:47:55,500 --> 03:47:56,500
where there's some amendments to that,

4759
03:47:56,500 --> 03:47:59,930
or potential future other types of zoning overlays or plan

4760
03:47:59,930 --> 03:48:01,500
development districts,

4761
03:48:01,500 --> 03:48:05,500
then we have an opportunity to provide that input.

4762
03:48:05,500 --> 03:48:09,280
In the instances where we have those elements as I iterated

4763
03:48:09,280 --> 03:48:11,500
, alternative ESAs and ADPs,

4764
03:48:11,500 --> 03:48:14,350
we do have an opportunity to include, and I think in the

4765
03:48:14,350 --> 03:48:17,059
past we have, where the urban forester has looked at the

4766
03:48:17,059 --> 03:48:18,500
mitigation and preservation requirements,

4767
03:48:18,500 --> 03:48:20,500
which is also applicable to the plats.

4768
03:48:20,500 --> 03:48:22,889
However, when you read the plats, we say all technical

4769
03:48:22,889 --> 03:48:25,549
requirements have been addressed, and that's why that's not

4770
03:48:25,549 --> 03:48:26,500
included in there.

4771
03:48:26,500 --> 03:48:29,399
But definitely if the situation does arise where we know

4772
03:48:29,399 --> 03:48:32,760
there's a potential, where we should look at something that

4773
03:48:32,760 --> 03:48:33,500
you need to --

4774
03:48:33,500 --> 03:48:35,850
you, the commission, needs to be apprised of, we will

4775
03:48:35,850 --> 03:48:37,500
include that, reflecting that the --

4776
03:48:37,500 --> 03:48:42,729
because the urban forester is part of the planning division

4777
03:48:42,729 --> 03:48:47,500
, so all those elements are reviewed and analyzed.

4778
03:48:47,500 --> 03:48:49,500
I have one.

4779
03:48:49,500 --> 03:48:55,040
It's been a while since we've talked about I-35, and I'm

4780
03:48:55,040 --> 03:48:58,739
curious if it's far enough along yet for us to get an

4781
03:48:58,739 --> 03:49:04,500
update on the Buc-Ease area of Loop 288,

4782
03:49:04,500 --> 03:49:08,290
the Brinker Road extension under 35, and May Hill to see

4783
03:49:08,290 --> 03:49:12,799
where that stands and what the current time frame for that

4784
03:49:12,799 --> 03:49:14,500
is with TechStat.

4785
03:49:14,500 --> 03:49:18,930
You may -- Earl may -- he may already be gone, have an idea

4786
03:49:18,930 --> 03:49:20,500
on where that is.

4787
03:49:20,500 --> 03:49:24,020
I know it's been talked about, and it was a big concern at

4788
03:49:24,020 --> 03:49:27,020
that particular item with Buc-Ease, and it looks like work

4789
03:49:27,020 --> 03:49:29,500
has begun over there on that area.

4790
03:49:29,500 --> 03:49:33,690
And I'm just curious to see where the road improvements

4791
03:49:33,690 --> 03:49:34,500
stand.

4792
03:49:34,500 --> 03:49:37,219
We will coordinate with our engineering team and get you

4793
03:49:37,219 --> 03:49:38,500
some answers to that.

4794
03:49:38,500 --> 03:49:40,500
Great. Thank you.

4795
03:49:40,500 --> 03:49:43,500
Anybody else?

4796
03:49:43,500 --> 03:49:45,500
Commissioner Ellis.

4797
03:49:45,500 --> 03:49:46,500
Thank you.

4798
03:49:46,500 --> 03:49:49,440
Not that you need more workmen, all, but -- and this may be

4799
03:49:49,440 --> 03:49:53,739
somewhere in the matrix in the past -- but notifications,

4800
03:49:53,739 --> 03:49:56,500
specifically on undeveloped pieces of land

4801
03:49:56,500 --> 03:49:59,610
that is going to go to a public hearing for a zoning change

4802
03:49:59,610 --> 03:50:00,500
, perhaps.

4803
03:50:00,500 --> 03:50:05,620
I find the way it's posted now inadequate, especially on a

4804
03:50:05,620 --> 03:50:07,500
high-speed road.

4805
03:50:07,500 --> 03:50:11,530
One in particular I passed probably a dozen times, and I

4806
03:50:11,530 --> 03:50:13,500
still couldn't read it.

4807
03:50:13,500 --> 03:50:15,750
You know, it's a small piece of paper with a Sharpie

4808
03:50:15,750 --> 03:50:16,500
written on it.

4809
03:50:16,500 --> 03:50:18,649
I had my daughter take a picture of it as we slowly went by

4810
03:50:18,649 --> 03:50:20,500
, but it's a 50-mile-an-hour road.

4811
03:50:20,500 --> 03:50:22,500
I still never figured out what it was.

4812
03:50:22,500 --> 03:50:26,030
Actually, I asked Commissioner Taylor what it was down the

4813
03:50:26,030 --> 03:50:26,500
road.

4814
03:50:26,500 --> 03:50:29,680
But if there's a way we can maybe get an update on that, we

4815
03:50:29,680 --> 03:50:32,500
can discuss it just for better signage

4816
03:50:32,500 --> 03:50:35,510
so people can actually know of a public hearing and what's

4817
03:50:35,510 --> 03:50:37,500
happening, that would be great.

4818
03:50:37,500 --> 03:50:40,909
I really appreciate you bringing that back to our attention

4819
03:50:40,909 --> 03:50:42,500
, Commissioner Ellis.

4820
03:50:42,500 --> 03:50:46,790
What we're looking at is revising our entire notification

4821
03:50:46,790 --> 03:50:49,500
process, not just as it relates to posting the signs,

4822
03:50:49,500 --> 03:50:53,500
but also who we send to and how we send to.

4823
03:50:53,500 --> 03:50:57,739
And we have state local government code requirements, and

4824
03:50:57,739 --> 03:50:58,500
then on top of that,

4825
03:50:58,500 --> 03:51:01,239
we have slightly more restrictive requirements as it

4826
03:51:01,239 --> 03:51:03,500
relates to our Denton Development Code.

4827
03:51:03,500 --> 03:51:08,280
Just food for thought is a lot of communities now have the

4828
03:51:08,280 --> 03:51:10,500
applicant post much larger signs

4829
03:51:10,500 --> 03:51:13,500
and sign an affidavit that they've posted a zoning change

4830
03:51:13,500 --> 03:51:15,500
or an SUP sign on the property

4831
03:51:15,500 --> 03:51:18,040
or any public hearing item, and those are some of the

4832
03:51:18,040 --> 03:51:18,500
recommendations

4833
03:51:18,500 --> 03:51:20,889
we're going to bring forward to the Planning and Zoning

4834
03:51:20,889 --> 03:51:21,500
Commission.

4835
03:51:21,500 --> 03:51:24,739
Hopefully sooner than later, and we've actually been

4836
03:51:24,739 --> 03:51:26,500
talking about it internally,

4837
03:51:26,500 --> 03:51:28,870
and we're very keen to bring this back to you very, very

4838
03:51:28,870 --> 03:51:33,510
quickly in a matter of a couple of meetings, hopefully, for

4839
03:51:33,510 --> 03:51:34,500
discussion.

4840
03:51:34,500 --> 03:51:36,500
Thank you.

4841
03:51:36,500 --> 03:51:40,500
Okay. Anybody else? No?

4842
03:51:40,500 --> 03:51:47,309
Okay. It is 9.15, and I'm going -- do you have Commissioner

4843
03:51:47,309 --> 03:51:47,500
--

4844
03:51:47,500 --> 03:51:49,500
I'll be on there. I just have one question for Manal.

4845
03:51:49,500 --> 03:51:51,500
Well, you were going off, and I'm sorry I missed your back.

4846
03:51:51,500 --> 03:51:55,649
Manal, can you -- I need to write down your new title and

4847
03:51:55,649 --> 03:52:01,850
congratulate you, but can you -- what is your new title now

4848
03:52:01,850 --> 03:52:02,500
?

4849
03:52:02,500 --> 03:52:03,500
The Director of Development Services.

4850
03:52:03,500 --> 03:52:04,500
Outstanding.

4851
03:52:04,500 --> 03:52:06,799
Thank you, Commissioner Hardsmith. I appreciate it. Put me

4852
03:52:06,799 --> 03:52:09,500
on the spot, but thank you so much.

4853
03:52:09,500 --> 03:52:15,500
Thank you for that. Anybody else?

4854
03:52:15,500 --> 03:52:20,059
Congratulations, and I'm going to close our PNC meeting at

4855
03:52:20,059 --> 03:52:22,500
9.16. Thank you, everybody.