It is 534 and this meeting has been duly posted and we have
a quorum present and I call our meeting to order at this
time.
Our first order of business is going to be to receive
clarification of agenda items and I will turn that over to
Manal.
Thank you Chairperson. We'll go ahead and get started with
our plots. The first plot is the final plot for Loves
Travel Stop Edition.
If there are any questions related to this I will ask Mike
to come and make a quick presentation but it's relatively
straightforward.
You've already seen the preliminary plot on this one.
Moving on we have a final plot for Hickory Creek Ranch
Apartments.
If there are any questions related to that we can move
forward with that. Seeing none we'll go ahead and move on
with our other items.
We have a public hearing scheduled at the regular meeting
for a final replat. Again this is a standard replat.
If there are any questions related to that I'm going to ask
Mike Bell to come forward and walk us through that.
I want to ask also as we get started, we're a little short
on media staff today. Will everybody make sure that their
mic is turned on?
They asked to just make sure that everyone's mic was on as
we got started. Thank you.
Alright this is a plat in the ETJ out in the county. It's
currently one lot. This is kind of the boundaries of it.
They're proposing to split it into five lots.
Commissioner Bruegel.
Thank you Chair. I have two questions about this. One is if
this is in the ETJ why are we seeing this? I don't remember
ever seeing anything in the ETJ before.
To qualify for a minor plat which is what most of them in
the ETJ are, those can be approved by staff. You have to be
four lots or fewer.
Because it says five lots it gets triggered in the P&Z. So
we don't have that too often in the ETJ that's why.
Okay thank you. And then my second question is on this plat
it's listed that there's an abandoned well and it's a no
build area. Can you point that out specifically for me?
I mean I see where it says it's in it. Which area is the no
build area?
Let's see if I can find that.
Right there.
Oh right here.
Is it that entire rectangle there in lot 1D?
No I believe it's this area right here.
That's the rectangle and not the circle or?
The circle right here would be the area.
The circle. Okay thank you.
Commissioner Rozelle.
Thank you. I just have a question in terms of agenda. Is
there a reason we see final replats but we don't see plat.
I mean final plat goes to the consent agenda. But this one
came to public hearing. What's the difference?
Local government code requires in your replat to be a
public hearing.
Perfect. Thank you.
Commissioner Back.
The abandoned well. Water well? Gas well?
I believe it's a gas well. Yeah it's a gas well. So the
reason it's no build is because of railroad commission laws
you can't build on top of a plugged well.
Right. Is it slightly above ground? Is it lower with the
ground?
I don't know if that's the applicant.
Below ground.
It's about six feet under ground.
Okay. And just out of curiosity what's this right in the
middle?
This right here it's a drainage easement for a pond that's
on this side.
Okay. Thanks.
Any other questions for staff on this item?
Thank you Mike.
The next item is a request for a historic landmark
designation. I'm going to have Roman McCallan our historic
preservation officer make this presentation for us tonight.
Good evening everyone.
I just have a few slides for you here. I'll go through as
quickly as I can. If I'm going a little slow just let me
know.
This is a project for a landmark designation. The owner
requested historic local landmark designation and the
application process started a little before I got here.
So I'll just go through it with you. This is the location
here on North Locus.
And this is another way of looking at that.
That's the location there near Texas Women's University.
That's significant because that proximity happened. There's
a lot of interesting thing about this. There was another
home on this site that was demolished and it was built in
1906.
But in 1924 the Brown family owned the property and they
drew up plans for a new brick home on this site.
The owner H. Grady Brown was the manager of the laundry
plant at the College of Industrial Arts in the early decade
of the 20th century.
And during the 20s he began a private business called Dent
on Steam Laundry located on Hickory Street.
And he was a city council member in 1941 through 45 and the
mayor pro tem in 1945.
In addition to this home he had 231 acres at a farm north
of Denton.
So again there's that location and there's this is actually
I pause this is actually the earlier home.
This is not the home that's there today but as the site
there's the laundry on campus and you see that in this old
Sanborn map.
This is the home in the 1940s from those county records
that were miraculously saved from the dumpster.
I don't know if you all know that story is pretty
interesting.
Mr. Cochran saved those.
And this is a little information this is provided from the
owner.
I would have liked to have seen the architect or builder
there.
Again I wasn't here when this paperwork got started but
hopefully a deed search was done and we tried to find that.
This is the record from the as you can see from 1940
through 1954 of all those county appraisers going out.
And some drawings about this is a 1986 survey that was part
of the Denton 1986 survey image of that house.
At that time the home was giving a given a load design that
X I think is in the low column.
But it describes it as a domestic bungalow two door style
built in 1925.
And these are some some current photos of the property.
Obviously in the winter but it's all it's pretty original
and the owner during the HLC meeting said that the interior
is actually more original than the exterior.
The floors and all that have been maintained.
The home meets a lot of the criteria.
These are criteria out of our ordinance for what you can
designate a local ordinance form.
It meets all of those basically having to do with character
, authenticity, contribution to the city's historical place,
etc.
And for me it would be a recommendation that this get
approved when it comes up.
That's what this is about.
Are there any questions?
Commissioner Briegel.
Thank you Chair.
I always love when we see these historic cases come to us.
They're really fascinating and I just pour over the
background information.
I was actually curious about in the liens in 1906.
Mrs. Johnson was listed in the lien and in 1922 Mrs. Zarath
onitis was also listed.
That's right.
And what I thought was really interesting was that women
didn't get the vote until 1920 and yet Mrs. Johnson was
listed on the lien in 1906 14 years before that right.
And Mrs. Zarathonitis who was likely a Greek immigrant was
also listed.
And so I was just kind of curious was that in your do you
often see that women are also listed on the liens that that
I mean that was.
I don't know.
That that's an interesting question.
You know it seems like sometimes we've gone a little
backwards.
We go back in history so often see.
I've seen women's names associated with development and
property around the turn of the century.
And then you see that sort of taper off for some reason in
the 20s and 30s, 40s.
I was just I just thought that was really fascinating that
they were listed alongside their husbands were listed first
but they were still listed in those documents.
I just thought that was really fascinating.
I really think it's a question of the vote but you know at
least down in south Texas where I'm more familiar with it.
You know Spanish land grants were often given to women.
And so they were the landowners and it was sometimes the
men were the ones that were really courting the situation.
So it was really just a different time.
And so you saw that.
And then when we started to see more laws and as things
start to tighten up it seems like that starts to taper off
and you see a lot of male names in those documents.
Thank you.
I was sure.
And I forgot to mention that we did the public notices that
were mailed out.
And when they were mailed out for the Landmark Committee
meeting four notices came back in favor and one neutral.
And though I'm not sure of the merit of it we do another
mail out for this meeting.
And I've got back two in favor and one neutral for this
meeting.
Public notices.
Commissioner Rosell.
Thank you Chair.
In my brief time on PNZ this is the first time I've gotten
an item like this.
So my question might be filled with ignorance but what
exactly is being awarded or what is the designation of
historic landmark mean in this context?
It is a local designation.
So in the world of preservation you have the highest honor
in the U.S. would be being listed on the National Register
of Historic Places.
And that is done by the National Trust.
And then you can have a state designation in our case the
Register of Texas Historical Landmark two of which were
placed Saturday one on the City Hall West and one on a
residence on West Oak.
And then you can have a local designation.
And in essence it's just a kind of locally here in the law
we're a certified local government here in Denton.
And this is the 50th anniversary of the law that made that
certified local government happen.
The National Historic Preservation Act.
That act in an effort to provide federal funding for
preservation in the United States created the certified
local government program.
And the idea and also that there must be a SHPO, a state
historic preservation officer.
There's a lot to this.
And so the local what happens then if you have a certain
you're going to be a certified local government if you
agree to have preservation laws.
So Denton agreed to have preservation laws.
And in Texas there are 80 something certified local
governments.
Denton County is also one.
So we're kind of overlapped there.
But there are many, many, many communities in Texas that
don't have it.
And the reason you might do it is it one you have to have
the political will to say yeah we agree preservation
matters.
And not only that we wouldn't mind some assistance if it
comes along to help people with preservation.
So there are grants.
Ten percent of the federal grants that come down to the
state level.
Ten percent of the federal grants that come down to the
state level must be given to certified local governments.
So it puts you at the head of the line when that happens.
And so our local ordinance says that we have preservation
and we have historic landmarks.
And I don't know if landmarks locally are mandated by that
ordinance.
There are other things I could bring up about this that
will come on down the line as we do this ordinance revision
.
But that's where it comes from.
And it's important to know that the most protective
designation is the local one, not the national nor the
state.
You can demolish a state or national monument in your city
if you don't have local laws that protect those.
So this home now, if somebody wants to alter it or demolish
it, they have to get a certificate of appropriateness by
our law.
And that has to go through the historic landmark committee.
And then also here we have a little bit of tax incentives.
So if the person spends I think it's ten thousand dollars
within the previous two years of this designation,
then I believe they're entitled to 50 percent off of their
city of Denton property taxes.
So a little bit of incentive and a little bit of that
protection.
Thank you.
Commissioner Dudowitz.
Does the historical designation, does it restrict it to use
?
So it has to be a home or can it be turned into a...
Doesn't change that.
As far as I know...
So it could go into a legal office or dental office, as
long as the structure remains intact as certified.
And we have commercial buildings on the square and other
places that are locally designated too.
So I don't think it affects that.
It just means that this structure is protected, is the idea
.
Great presentation.
Thank you.
Next item is a request for an alternative ESA for the
villages of Carmel and Mike Bell and Deborah.
And perhaps Earl will shed some insight into this request.
Before you get started Mike, I talked with Manala.
We've got obviously several presentations on this item.
So can we wait until we get everybody because there are
going to be several different approaches on this and get
all the information
and we can start questions and we'll make sure and get the
full presentation on this item.
Thank you Mike.
Thank you Chair, members of the Commission.
This is ADP 16-1.
It's an alternative environmentally sensitive area plan for
villages of Carmel phase four.
And this is going to be a recommendation to City Council.
They will take the final action.
The site is located on the southeast part of town.
The property is highlighted in yellow.
On the north side of Poker's page, within the villages of
Carmel development, you can see the other phases of the
villages of Carmel around it.
4A is kind of the western half of this, which was rezoned
in 2014.
And the 4B, you all might remember from last year, was rez
oned in 2015.
And this allows single family development.
I'm going to ask Deborah to come up here in just a moment.
But the reason we're here is there are two kind of
environmentally important areas.
Only one is designated as an ESA.
One being upland habitat and the other being riparian
buffer.
And with that, I'll ask Deborah Viera with Environmental
Services to come up and explain a little bit about what
these are and what they mean.
Good evening, Commission.
I'm going to team tag with Mike today.
I'm going through the technical definitions and things of
that nature.
Mike will be getting to the details of how many three
inches and things of that.
So we're kind of dancing around a little bit here.
Bear with us.
We pretty much have two types of environmental sensitive
areas or environmental areas that should be protected or
could be protected.
One of them have the protection already in place, which is
the riparian buffer.
What are riparian buffers?
Those are pretty much swath of plants along creek and
channels that could vary from 100 to 200 feet depending on
the drainage area that goes through that certain point.
And they are along streams.
Most of the time those riparian buffers are inside floodpl
ains, but not in every single case.
And this particular case is one of those where we don't
have a floodplain, but we do have a riparian buffer.
This is a map of the area.
The riparian buffer that they're asking exception from is
in blue.
And then we have the upland habitat right here that that's
the mitigation area that they are proposing for.
Okay.
It is important to realize that this track only have those
type of ESAs.
We have one riparian buffer and one upland habitat.
Most of the time when I'm here before you, we are trying to
mitigate apples to apples, riparian buffer to riparian
buffer.
In this case, it's not possible because there's not another
riparian buffer that they could go and improve upon.
The other thing that I wanted to stress is we're working on
the headwaters of the riparian buffer.
If you, and I don't know where my pointer is, okay, right
here.
This area, which is downstream of our site, was already
channelized and put under through a series of storm water,
storm sectors.
I'm sorry, storm drains, that's the word that I went.
So pretty much we are just working with a small portion of
it.
The reason why the section downstream was allowed to be
removed is because that subdivision is part of a planned
development.
And that planned development was approved prior to the
adoption of the DDC that brought forward the environmental
sensitive area.
So when that developer, which was part of the preserved,
sold that parcel to villages of Carmel, the PD designation
was kept.
So pretty much they didn't have to do any type of
mitigation or any alternative ESA plan.
They were allowed to do by right.
So we went in and we assessed this riparian buffer back in
March of 2015.
It is 100 feet wide, protected.
When we analyzed the site and looked into the vegetation
and so on, we scored that habitat to be of fair quality.
The vegetation makeup is pretty much post-oaks, red cedars,
and blue stem grasses.
And there was a tree survey done on that area and
approximately 875 trees inches located within the protected
area.
Those are pictures of what we saw back in 2015.
No development have happened in the adjacency of the site,
so we're not expecting any changes from the time that we do
the assessment up to now.
The upland habitat that they are proposing for mitigation.
Upland habitat, those are areas of the remnants of the
cross timber forest habitat and they must be 10 acres in
size.
Those two conditions have to be there for an area to
maintain an upland habitat designation.
If one of those are not there, that designation could be
removed.
And the protection of upland habitat only is applicable for
residential development, which is this case.
Back in 2008, we went to the site and assessed it.
At that time, the owner of the land, he thought that in the
way that the ESA map was showing the upland habitat was not
accurate based on field information, and he requested us to
go and assess it.
That piece of land was annexed into the city back in 2004.
When we got in, we found that the ESA map shows two tree
stands, one in the western side of the property, the other
one on the eastern side.
The western stand was completely removed by the time that
we did the assessment in 2008.
We researched back, it was photographed, and in 2003 there
was a tree stand, in 2005 that tree stand was gone.
So somewhere in between those two dates, that tree stand
was removed.
And chances are that happened while the track was outside
the city limits.
So the upland habitat requirements will have not applied
anyway, or even the tree code at the time.
The eastern tree stand, we assessed it, and it was less
than ten acres.
It was only 5.82 acres.
Even though the habitat was there, it was a nice quality
habitat, because the area didn't meet the ten acres, that
designation was removed.
But even though the upland designation was removed, the
tree code regulation still is applied.
So some sort of preservation will be required either by ESA
or by the tree code.
So this is the area that they are offering for mitigation
in here.
That area is currently, a portion of it is offered for tree
code mitigation,
and that will be something that Mike will be able to walk
you through and show you what has been already allocated
for tree code, and so on.
And pretty much that ends my presentation, right there.
Thank you, Deborah. So just back on track here, we've got
two potential, one existing ESA, one removed ESA, the up
land habitat being this area up here.
It's no longer an ESA, no longer protected at this time.
To give you an idea of what that riparian buffer looks like
in part of the larger regional system, it's this string
here.
This is where it was removed, and it flows into Lake Louis
ville.
And here's just a closer picture where you can see it was
channelized along post oak.
Post oak is actually intended to be extended up to a six
lane arterial at some point.
There's actually a little stub out here for them to tie in
a new storm drain that would kind of run parallel to that
buffer.
So as you may have read in the backup, there is a major
assumption that we're making here.
The applicant came to us and said, there is riparian buffer
there, yes, but once you do all the improvements with phase
four, the streets, the storm systems, the drainage
improvements, there will be no water in that riparian
buffer.
And once all the water is gone, at some point, the riparian
, the no longer qualifies riparian buffer ESA.
And when that creek's dry, they can come back and assess
the ESA and remove it.
And I've got the plan that was in your backup.
I'll hold it up so we can see it here.
To give you a little bit better idea of what's going on.
Oh, thank you.
So here's our ESA down here.
You'll see the water that will be collected in the streets
will come down and collect and run down into that.
That's the inlet in the storm system of post oak.
So all the water is now coming here and no longer flowing
into the stream, which means the stream will be dry.
And the ESA designation will go away.
Engineering, Deborah, all of us have concurred with that
opinion.
We are of the belief that it will indeed go away at some
time.
So what the applicant is requesting is in knowing that this
is going to go away, can we remove that assessment earlier?
Their intent is to build nine more homes in that area.
In exchange for removing that, the early removal of that
designation, they will provide a tree preserve in the area
that was formerly an upland habitat.
Within that tree preserve area, they will save one to one
for every inch of tree that's removed from the reprying
buffer.
Any tree that's removed here, they'll save the same amount
of inches in this area.
Any excess of those inches, they would like to use to meet
their tree code requirements outside of the ESA mitigation.
So what does that look like in kind of hard numbers?
Well, we know based on the tree survey, the reparing buffer
has 875 inches and the tree preserve contains 1,270 inches.
Those are roughly the same species and composition
percentages.
So we know they're roughly the same type of forested area.
In the first scenario, if they just developed under current
code and that ESA went away, if they developed, if the ESA
goes away, it's no longer protected as we assume it will be
,
they'll then be subject to the tree code and they're only
required to save at a very minimum 12.5%, which would leave
110 of those 875 inches.
Because the ESA would not have any protection, it would
also be under the tree code.
Again, 12.5% would only leave us 160 inches.
In total, we would be left with 270 inches with neither
repair an area nor an upland habitat.
Under the applicant's proposal, what they would like to do
is again remove that buffer, remove the trees.
But under the ESA plan, they would save those 875 inches up
here as well as at a very minimum 50 inches to meet their
tree code preservation,
which would give us a total of 925 inches saved in this
area at a very minimum.
We would lose the riparian buffer, but we would gain the up
land habitat back through this proposal.
Some other factors that we should consider is that in phase
4A, which has already been final plotted and tree
preservation plan approved,
they saved 790 inches adjacent to the tree preserve track.
As well as in phase two, there were 997 inches that were
saved through the tree code.
When you put that all together under this proposal, there
would be about a five-acre common area lot maintained by
the HOA with a total of at minimum 2700 inches.
On top of that, that's just the bare minimum.
The applicant does intend to preserve the balance of those
trees to meet their tree code requirements for the entire
phase.
Just to sum it up, what really we're talking about here in
bare bones is they want to remove the riparian buffer ESA
to build more homes,
and in exchange they'll give us what will eventually be a
five-acre tree park between all the phases.
The benefits to this is we protect an important
environmental resource, we create the tree park,
and we preserve a greater amount of tree inches overall
than if we didn't have the plan.
And the cost, obviously, is we lose the riparian buffer
that we believe would go away on its own anyway.
We did send notices. We got two back in favor.
We did receive a number of phone calls when people received
their notices.
Most people were concerned. They thought they were cutting
down that tree preserve.
That was what their concern was.
And once we explained what's happening, they were all in
favor.
They just want to keep the trees.
We will be recommending approval, and with that I'll stand
for any other questions.
Deborah as well.
Anyone else presenting? Just the two of you all?
Just for now.
Okay. Great. Questions for staff?
Commissioner Beck.
So the nine houses, and I'm glad you showed that last one.
I'm not sure where they're going to go.
The part that was called the upland habitat, I went over
there and looked at it today.
So they're still going to, that runs along the street
called, I think, Monteverde.
And there's trees right up against that now.
So are you saying part of that's still going to come out?
All those trees you see there? Yeah.
I would say probably 90% of those would stay here under
that plan.
Potentially all of them, depending on how the tree code
numbers shake out for the phase.
They would like to save all of them.
Okay.
Question two on the fact that we're losing this repairing
buffer through the development.
I mean, we're realizing that now, and that's why, well, let
's go ahead and get rid of it.
But my question is, shouldn't we have seen this coming?
If we're going to develop all this land, shouldn't somebody
have picked that up somewhere along the line, say,
if we develop too far in, it's going to have this negative
impact on that repairing buffer?
I see that point.
I think what happens is the protection is only on the
buffer, 50 feet out.
So they could approve this plan now today in a final plan
and make this all one lot and save it.
And it could be approved.
It would meet our code.
However, all that water would flow out.
Additionally, we have post oak road, which is a city
planned road, six lanes,
that's going to take all the water that's flowing from this
direction and collect it into the system.
So between the city's improvements and the private
development, that water is going to get picked up anyway.
Now, could we design it to maybe put that water back in the
channel?
Potentially, maybe you could.
But I think you're going to affect velocities.
You're going to affect the temperature of the water because
it's not going to be flowing down hot cement on the streets
and then back into that stream.
All that affects the microbiology.
We're trying to play God creating the stream again through
engineering.
I'm really not sure that we could do that comfortably to
protect that ESA.
The other thing, the tree park, that's interesting.
I was glad to see that because, of course, one of the
concerns here is, you know, we're building all these houses
and here's a good place.
We could do something like this.
So are they going to have to thin?
Because that's a thick area of trees I noticed in there.
So when they create this tree park, are they going to be
thinning that out a little bit to put?
That's a good question, actually.
In the tree preserve, so just the part that is in this area
, which is under the proposed plan, our requirement is that
they be saved per the ESA regulations,
which mean you have to leave it in its natural state.
They can't clear out the underbrush.
The other two phases here in the red and the blue, those
were not ESA.
Those were saved under tree code.
So all that's required to be protected is the tree
themselves.
They can clear out the underbrush, put the trails through
there so people can enjoy it.
Are they going to be building houses in those areas where
you've got it marked phase two and phase four A?
No.
All these sections right here, these two in particular, are
already dedicated common area lots per the plat.
Okay.
Good.
That's a good question.
This area will be preserved as an ESA.
Okay.
So it goes back, it lost its status as an ESA, but now we
're getting it back because we're taking the repairing
buffer, what, is that correct?
Essentially, yes.
Okay.
I think that's all I have for right now.
Thanks.
Commissioner Rosell.
Thank you, Chair.
I might defer back to the Chair, Resident, Developer for
some insight on this, but the offer they're presenting
seems like, to me, a very big win for the city to protect
trees.
Maybe even a no-brainer to approve this, which naturally
makes me think, why would they offer it?
Why would a developer not just plot out a lot, wait for
that to change, put more houses where the trees are, and
then in five, ten years come back and put nine more houses
in?
I'm confused about why they would even offer this.
So any insight that someone could provide me would be
helpful?
I mean, maybe if the applicant's here, I can ask in public
hearing.
I think I would let them answer to that.
I know sometimes, to your point, it might be hard to
believe, but they're actually developers that are conscient
ious and try to do nice stuff.
Sure, that'd be great.
They'll have their own way to answer that.
I'll give you a historical context on this. When the
development, when Village of Camel started, not when it
started, but as it moved further along, the intent by the
applicant, and correct me if I'm wrong, was that they
wanted to preserve these trees in this area, eventually
saving them as a tree trust under the tree code.
So they could sell those credits to other developers to cut
trees down.
That tree trust process never fully vetted out. Nobody's
done one. The code is not really clear how we do that.
So they were kind of saving these trees anyway. They want
to get that benefit and build their nine homes here today.
Commissioner Beck.
Thank you, Chair. One last little thing. Again, I went over
there and looked today and where they're fixing to build,
again from Monte Verde on, and they haven't even started to
flatten the land along the repairing buffer yet.
I mean, it's barren right now. So part of the tree
mitigation thing is as they put these homes in, then that's
where some of these trees are going to go.
Is every house going to get a tree or two?
That's into our landscape code where every house has to
have a street tree based on a certain frontage that they
have.
One or at least one?
I'm not an expert in the landscape code. I'm sorry. I don't
know. At least one per house. Maybe more depending on the
frontage.
But that's outside of tree code, and that's outside of ESA.
That's really our landscape code.
Okay. Thank you.
Commissioner Taylor.
Thank you, Chair. Could you go back to the slide where you
did the arithmetic on tree code preservation requirements?
So the 12.5% of 875, that's the 875 trees in the riparian
buffer that would have to be preserved.
Yes.
And so it appears that there are other trees just generally
across the property.
You said phase 4A, they've already done the math, and that
was 790. Is there any idea what it's going to be on phase 4
B?
I don't know if we have that yet. The final plan is when we
work through all that. They don't have the final plan in.
I think they're kind of waiting to make those counts based
on whether they get these nine lots or not, because that
will affect their tree plan tremendously.
I don't know. I know that we've talked about it, and we're
really close to the balance of, you know, I said the
remainder of those 1200 trees, we saved 875, those 400, 300
, 400 trees.
They're going to need almost all of those. They're nearly
pretty close.
Right. So yeah, and it sounds like their intention is just
to leave whatever that is, two acres or two and a quarter
acres or whatever that is, just alone.
It seems like the easiest possible thing to do would be to
leave it alone and just get credit for it as opposed to...
In full disclosure, they would like to get two more lots in
that area, but they're not even sure they can do that
because of the tree code requirements.
Okay. You're saying in which area?
In the tree preserve area, right? So we're not protecting,
by acreage, we're protecting 875 inches within that area.
So if they can save 875 inches, add two more lots, and
still meet their tree code requirements, they can do that.
However, they're on that thin line, and they think they can
or they can't at this point.
Okay. I see. Thank you.
And so I also wanted to...I think this is...as you talked
about the drainage issue earlier,
about how our design standards are basically forcing or
removing the water from the riparian zone.
And so that's not the developer designing it so that water
doesn't flow there, but our engineering standards that we
require them to build to.
Is that correct? Like our sewer standards and so forth?
I think to get the maximum water there, at their
development, maximum yield for the zoning, meeting our
standard requirements, it's going to happen one way or the
other.
It's a little bit of balance of the way they design it and
a little bit of balance of, well, if you're designing it
this way, this is what our code requires.
But I don't think you could design it in any other way that
would still save that water in that basin.
And so without doing something like intentionally making
larger lots that keep a natural flow that direction and
kind of buffer the area to make sure that there isn't...
Because we design generally our developments to flow to the
street, flow to the sewers under the street.
We, you know, I believe we require sewers under all the
streets, you know.
So we, our design standards force the water into the man-
made sewers instead of through natural drainage.
That's correct.
Thank you.
Commissioner Hesbeth.
And you may have mentioned it and I missed it, so forgive
me. Assuming the, you know, we go with the trees there,
what is, what protection going forward is applied to those
trees?
So is there a mechanism that prevents them from then once
approved going back and changing?
What protection is that?
Well, there's a number of things.
One is they'll be dedicated as a common area lot.
It'll be noted on the plaque.
Two, it'll be in an ordinance in their zoning code.
And three, will require it in the CC and CCNRs for their
homeowners association.
But they note that the open space, in particular this area,
is protected.
And then one other question.
So is it the same owner from 2003 to different owner?
Around the 2000...
I'm just wondering, the trees left under whose ownership?
The current or the previous?
The trees that were removed further to the west, Debra was
talking about, was a completely different owner, a
completely different developer.
Okay, so before it was sold, they were cut?
Yes.
Got it. Thank you.
Commissioner Vettelwitz.
Clarification. You mentioned that in the tree preserve,
within the 925 inches, that's protected from any clearing
whatsoever, so it's got to remain...
Yes, whatever remains, those trees that remain there, will
be subject to sub-chapter 17 in the tree preserve area.
So it could be a minimum 925, it could be more.
Could be more.
But are they allowed to put trails through there and/or
enhance it or clean it up to make it more user-friendly?
No, they'll be subject to the 17, which doesn't allow that,
but they can in the two phases adjacent, because those are
not ESA.
Okay.
If I can bring that back, yeah.
These two, the blue and the red?
That's what you said, but I wasn't sure about what we call
the tree preserve.
Right, so they might have it around the edge or something,
but yeah, the intent is to protect the natural habitat.
Okay.
Commissioner Begg.
Thank you, Chair.
I have a question for the developers, and it's a small
thing, should we just wait until the public hearing gets
going?
Okay, great, thanks.
Any other questions of staff on this item?
Thank you, Mike.
Thank you.
That's all the items for presentation at work session.
At 6.15, I'm going to close our work session, and we'll
reconvene in council chambers at 6.30.
Good evening, and welcome to the City of Denton Planning
and Zoning Commission meeting for June the 8th.
It is 6.40.
I apologize for running a little bit long in our work
session for getting a late start this evening.
This meeting has been duly posted, and we have a quorum
present, and our first order of business will be to stand
and say the U.S. and the Texas flag.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of
America, and to the republic for which it stands, one
nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for
all.
I pledge allegiance to the Texas, one state, under God, one
indivisible.
Next order of business will be to consider our minutes for
both, and we'll do these separately.
First item will be the May 11th minutes.
Chair would entertain a motion.
Commissioner Dudowitz.
I move to approve the minutes of May 11th.
Commissioner Hutsbeth.
Second.
I have a Commissioner Brigham.
Just a second.
We have a first and a second on the minutes for May 11th,
and I'll open it for discussion.
Commissioner Bribble.
Thank you, Chair.
I have a clarification on lines 42 -- sorry, 42 and 43 on
page -- I don't know what page that is.
First page?
And then one and two on the second page.
I had asked a question about Phase 1B in that large site
that Mr. Allison brought to us at our May 11th meeting.
There was one -- Phase 1B was at the far north end of that
property, and I had asked if that was what the plan was,
because it didn't match the other shapes of the other ones.
And I understood that he said it was just going to be a
large seven-acre plot -- or plat -- plot site.
But in the minutes it says that there was an ESA, which
makes it undevelopable.
Do I recall correctly that that was just going to be a
large seven-acre site, that it wasn't undevelopable?
Is that -- can the Commission refresh my memory on -- am I
correct in this?
I'll call on staff to clarify the minutes.
It's my understanding that -- and we'll go back and listen
to this again to verify or clarify, and we can --
You want to continue that one?
Right.
We're clarifying.
Yes, please.
I recall that there were some hindrance, physical hindr
ances on the site that would hamper it to develop in a
subdivision pattern as seen on what was provided in the GDP
.
And that was deliberately left as is, but we need to verify
if we're correct in this.
Yes, please.
I would like some clarification on that, because I
understood it was just going to be a large -- maybe there
was some -- at some part he could develop that.
Is that the only item you have on the minutes?
Yes, sir.
A point of order question for staff.
Do we need to go ahead and vote, or can we continue this,
since we already have a motion on the floor?
Well, a motion to postpone to a date certain will actually
take precedence over the main motion on the board.
Okay.
So we'll just go ahead and re-motion for a continuance then
?
Yes.
Okay.
Would you like to make that?
Sure.
Then I'd like to make a motion that we continue this item
to our next Planning and Zoning Commission meeting.
Do we have a date for that, or just next, okay?
Next is fine.
Next is fine, okay.
Second.
I have a first from Commissioner Bruegel and a second from
Commissioner Taylor, and for continuing to our next meeting
for the minutes for May 11th.
Any further discussion on this item?
I believe that's June 22nd.
According to staff, that will be June 22nd, continuing to
June 22nd.
Seeing no further discussion, I'll call for a vote on the
board.
Motion carries 7-0.
Next item this evening will be the minutes for May the 25th
.
I'll call for any discussion on that item before we go for
a motion.
Any discussion on the May 25th minutes?
Commissioner Beck?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
May 25th?
May 25th minutes.
Okay.
Commissioner Dudowitz?
I second the motion.
Okay.
We'll have a first and a second for the May 25th minutes as
is.
I'll call for a vote on the board.
That motion carries 6-0.
And motion passes.
Next item is the May.
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
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I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.
Okay.
Any discussion on the May?
I move we approve the May.