WEBVTT

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Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton Planning and

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Zoning Commission

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work session. Time is 432. Our meeting has been duly posted

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and we do have a

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quorum present. I call our meeting to order and our first

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item in our work

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session will be to receive reports on clarification of

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agenda items. I'll

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turn over to Manal for presentation of those items. Thank

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you Chairperson

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Strange. Do we have any questions regarding the plats

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tonight? If so we can

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do quick presentations on those else we'll jump straight

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into the regular

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meeting items. Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you Chair. I

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just had a quick question

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about the Buc-E's plat. I'm wondering how how voting on

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that might affect our

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discussion later for the ESA and vice versa. A couple of

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things that I... Come on

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up Julia. One item that I do want to mention that there is

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a most recent

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revised plat for Buc-E's on your table and that was just to

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clean up of some

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language as it relates to easements. With respect to the

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plat, the plat is in order

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as submitted. All the technical requirements have been

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addressed so there

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should not be any conflict between the two. Okay.

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Julie why don't we just run through the plat really quickly

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. Okay to address the

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the ADP that's before you tonight. There is in that in the

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plat that was

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delivered to your tables there is a note, note 13, that

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does address that approval

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of the alternative ESA that it is that approval from City

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Council is required

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for this plat. So that gives that little caveat in that

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note.

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Seeing none other we can dive straight into the other item.

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The first item for

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discussion is the alternative ESA for Buc-E's. Julie why

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don't we come into that.

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All right. So right now I'm presenting ADP 16-2 to you, the

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Buc-E's Travel

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Center Alternative Development Plan. The request before you

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is to consider an

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alternative environmentally sensitive area plan to allow

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the proposed

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commercial development to encroach into an existing

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environmentally sensitive

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area. Just to give you some context of where the property

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is, it is located

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along I-35. There's frontage along I-35. It's between the L

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illian Miller and Wind

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River. The zoning of the property is Regional Center

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Commercial Downtown. You

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can see here it here in the purple. Just to let you know

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all the uses that are

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proposed with the Buc-E's development are permitted within

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the the existing

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zoning. And then just to give you a little a little

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overview of what the

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environmental conditions are on the site. You can see the

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the area here in red.

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That was that environmentally sensitive area designation

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was removed during a an

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ESA assessment in 2008. So although it's it's shown on the

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map that is no longer

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no longer has the ESA designation. The the portion of the

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property that we're

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really looking at today is up here. It is the existing rip

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arian buffer and it goes

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it goes northward from the pond toward I-35. And just to

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walk you through the

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concept plan that Buc-E's has. Now this is something that

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was looked at last fall

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when the City Council looked at the economic development

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package for the

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Buc-E's. And so this is just conceptual. It is not a site

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plan that's been

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submitted with a building permit. But it does show you

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approximately what they're

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proposing. So here's I-35 along the north side or along the

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top part of this

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aerial photograph. This is Brinker. The proposed Buc-E's

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would have a

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connection going underneath I-35 and that would become Buc-

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E's Boulevard.

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I believe is what the name is. So that would that would

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become Buc-E's Boulevard. And

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then if this is if the ADP goes forward and it goes forward

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in this manner then

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there would be a road along this this area of the site. It

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would provide

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access to these out parcels. It would what it would do is

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it would sort of

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limit access to the site to these one two three areas and

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allow access for the

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parcels from an internal road system. This and then the

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anchor store would be

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would be in this area. Julie can I ask a question? Sure. If

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it's going to be

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internal will those parcels three four five six seven eight

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did not have their

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own egress off of the service road? No sir not not

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according to the plat that

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was before you tonight and and then the concept plan that's

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been

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submitted by Buc-E's. That would be access would be from

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this internal road

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system. And to take that one step further if for discussion

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purposes this

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roadway is not approved those parcels then do have to have

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access off of 35

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then. They would have to have access in some manner. Okay

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so that's kind of the

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trade-off is they either have the back entrance way or we

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end up with five or

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six more curb cuts on the service road. Potentially.

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Question. Commissioner Rossell.

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Thank you. To that point couldn't they still have Buc-E's

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Boulevard tee off and

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still right there left and right? So it doesn't necessarily

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have to go back to

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the service road right? They could still potentially come

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in to Buc-E's Boulevard

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and then still come in from the back way or is it if this

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doesn't get approved

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that the conclusion would be access road access? Well I

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think I understand your

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thought to sort of stop this this road right in this area.

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There is a proposed

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lot right here and so the intent would be to provide access

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to all of those

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lots from this internal drive aisle. The applicant is here

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and I'm sure tonight

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he can speak to what their concept is. But in drilling down

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a little

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further at what the what the question before you tonight is

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. This so here if

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you recall that that riparian buffer that goes north from

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the pond here it is

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in red and then this white hatch mark is the part of the

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property we're really

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talking about tonight. This is a riparian buffer that a

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proposed road would would

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impact. As part of that disturbance of that of that ESA it

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would potentially

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remove vegetation for the crossing of vehicles. Water and

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sewer would then would

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then be installed in this area. Due to this it would remove

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approximately 13,134

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square feet of riparian habitat and within that it would

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remove 24 trees.

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Commissioner Beck. Okay so the 13,000 plus square feet

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entails the road coming off

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of the service road and all the way across the riparian

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buffer. It's really

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it's really in this part because these these two elements

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the riparian

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buffer and the road converge in in this spot right here. So

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this is really the

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part we're talking about. The other parts of the riparian

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buffer per the code

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could not be impacted without approval by City Council

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through the public

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hearing process and we go before you as well. So we're

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really talking about

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the limits of this of this area right here and I think we

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'll look Debra is

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going to show it to you a little more closely when we look

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at the ESA

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mitigation plan. So but this is just sort of an overview of

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how it fits into their

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their proposed concept. Did that answer your question? Get

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close? Okay she's the

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technical expert. So so within that it would remove 24

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existing trees. Once

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again just this is also reflected on the on the plat in

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front of you. Here's where

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we're showing that area as well. So now I'm going to turn

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the the presentation

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over to Debra. She's our technical expert on on the

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environmental matters and so

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she's going to explain further.

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Good evening Commissioners. My name is Debra Vieira. I'm

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with the environmental

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services and sustainability. Some of you have seen me

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before about talking and

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training you about environmental sensitive areas. It's my

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understanding

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that some of you are new to the board so bear with me. We

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will do a quick

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introduction about what ESAs are, riparian buffers and we

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'll take it from

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there. So pretty much riparian buffer is one of the four

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type of environmental

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sensitive areas that the city provide protection to. They

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are we have two types.

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We either have the one that the total width is 100 from

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back to back or the

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200. Those are areas that of sort of vegetation that runs

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creeks alone and

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they provide a different type of services from a habitat

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conservation to

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water quality to floodplain management and so on. The width

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of those protected

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areas will depend on how much drainage area goes through

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them. The more area, the

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more drainage area goes through them, the wider the

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protection is. The smaller area

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that they have, the narrower the protection is. Most of the

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time riparian

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buffers are inside floodplains but not every single case.

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In this particular

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case, in both cases, one of those exceptions where we have

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a riparian

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buffer without having a or being nested inside a floodplain

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. Yes sir. You're

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saying it's not inside a floodplain. Commissioner Detovit,

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sorry. Yes correct. We don't have a

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hundred-year floodplain designation for this property. So

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you're going to explain

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to us later why we even have a riparian buffer there? Yes,

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riparian

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buffer they exist. First, not all the streams have

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designated floodplains by

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FEMA. Our floodplain ESA is defined by the 100-year flood

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plain by FEMA.

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Those streams that doesn't have floodplain designated by

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FEMA, they will

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not have a floodplain ESA designation associated with it.

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However, the

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streams are there, the riparian habitats are there, and

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that's why protections are

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given even though they might not be inside floodplain. We

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applied the

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protection of riparian buffers to any parcels within the

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city limits. So what

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do we get out of riparian buffers? They definitely improve

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the water quality

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because they are the last barrier to catch sediments pollut

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ants and nutrients.

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They provide stream bank stability because all that

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vegetation what is

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doing is holding the sediments in place. Okay, so otherwise

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we will have a very

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eroded channels and when a channel erodes all that sediment

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being end up at Lake

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Louisville. And definitely they provide a habitat and

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refuge for wildlife. It is

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known for those riparian buffers to be kind of the pathway

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for wildlife to

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travel from point A to point B. Those serious images pretty

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much shows how a

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riparian buffer will look when you are actually inside of

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it and the bottom

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picture will show you how they look from a aerial

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photograph.

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So when we have environmental sensitive areas, the

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applicants have the the

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option of assessing them or requesting staff to assess them

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. How the ESA map

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was originally created? It is a computer model that we use

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by

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incorporating information from different sources. Wetland,

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stream, floodplain,

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vegetation cover, topography and so on. So when we put all

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that layers of

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information together into the computer using geographic

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information system and

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we told them the program run this based on this parameters,

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then a map is created.

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Okay, it is because it's based on information that have

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been obtained from

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other sources. It's not 100% accurate but it's a very close

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approximation of what

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is out there. In this case like what Julie showed,

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originally there was a

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riparian buffer around the pond but when fill assessment

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was done on the property, it

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was found that those conditions that needs to be there to

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actually have a riparian buffer were not. So that's why in

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those instances fill

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assessment allows staff to remove those ESA designation

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from it and the property

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owners are no longer required to meet those conditions for

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the protection of

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environmental sensitive area. In 2008, the riparian buffer

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was assessed by a

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third-party consultant. It was found to be of good quality.

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When we go to the

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field, somebody goes to the field, they have to look for

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the presence of certain

00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:14.629
conditions to determine that the habitat is there. Mainly

00:14:14.629 --> 00:14:16.080
we look for hydrology,

00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:19.970
we look for vegetation indicating that there is a water

00:14:19.970 --> 00:14:21.480
related or riparian

00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:25.039
buffer habitat and we look for soil characteristic that

00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:26.200
tell us that it is

00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:29.919
true. There's one there. When we confirm the existence,

00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:31.440
then the next step is

00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:36.460
scoring the quality of the of the habitat and we have four

00:14:36.460 --> 00:14:37.480
classifications

00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:42.159
that range from poor to excellent. In this particular case,

00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:43.159
this habitat was

00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:47.129
rated as a good. Even though the assessment was done in

00:14:47.129 --> 00:14:48.600
2008, the

00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:52.909
conditions have not changed and I'm going to show you a

00:14:52.909 --> 00:14:54.840
chronology of aerial

00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:57.690
photographs showing that the riparian buffer have been

00:14:57.690 --> 00:14:59.440
there. The riparian

00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:05.159
buffer fill assessment was done in summer of 2008. We have

00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:08.679
2009 at the top, 2011,

00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:15.440
2013 and 2015 showing that nothing either within the stream

00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:16.279
buffer or in

00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:19.470
the vicinity of the stream buffer have changed. So we

00:15:19.470 --> 00:15:23.080
maintain the position that

00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:25.759
the stream buffer still they are having the same quality.

00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:27.200
Commissioner Beck. Thank

00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:30.480
you Chair. To allay some concerns that I had and you got me

00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:32.559
through that earlier, but

00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:37.500
one of our people have written a letter about the fact that

00:15:37.500 --> 00:15:39.240
it's a good quality

00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:41.679
and you're saying it's probably not any better than that.

00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:43.159
Does this make any

00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:45.759
difference one way or the other? Whether it's poor or

00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:48.659
excellent. Actually the ESA

00:15:48.659 --> 00:15:51.629
regulations requires mitigation disregard what quality of

00:15:51.629 --> 00:15:52.200
the stream

00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:55.149
buffer is. If the stream buffer is there, you must provide

00:15:55.149 --> 00:15:56.080
some sort of mitigation

00:15:56.080 --> 00:15:59.230
if you are applying to impact. So let's apply the scenario

00:15:59.230 --> 00:16:00.279
that the riparian

00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:04.399
buffer have been impacted since 2008. And let's play the

00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:06.000
scenario that now we go

00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:09.769
and we rate it that is as poor quality, the applicant will

00:16:09.769 --> 00:16:10.960
still be subject to

00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:13.830
go through the alternative ESA plan and provide mitigation

00:16:13.830 --> 00:16:15.120
from it. So the end

00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.960
result is doesn't matter what quality is, as long as it is,

00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:20.080
mitigation will be

00:16:20.080 --> 00:16:27.500
required. So we went to the site and we took pictures of it

00:16:27.500 --> 00:16:28.679
. At the first picture

00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:31.960
you will see when you are actually approaching into the rip

00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:33.320
arian buffer. The

00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:38.720
middle picture is actually looking downstream of the creek

00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:39.840
and the

00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:46.279
last picture is actually looking upstream of the creek. So

00:16:46.279 --> 00:16:47.159
we have

00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:51.000
confirmed that the riparian buffer is still there with a

00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:52.399
visual inspection.

00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:58.159
Also through the tree survey that the applicant did for the

00:16:58.159 --> 00:16:59.320
site, the tree

00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:02.629
show is still showing heavily vegetated. So we have

00:17:02.629 --> 00:17:04.440
confirmed this information

00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:08.160
from it using different sources. Yes. Commissioner Rossell.

00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:09.920
Thank you. Can you

00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:13.660
where does this creek originate? Okay well where's it

00:17:13.660 --> 00:17:14.400
coming from? I'm looking

00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:17.799
at an aerial map and it's either the Goodwill store or the

00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:18.799
highway. I'm not

00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:24.279
sure how the creek works. It starts right here. And it's

00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:25.680
just runoff rainwater

00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:31.849
that's forming it? Well it is. The other, this area right

00:17:31.849 --> 00:17:34.799
here where

00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:40.599
Hobby Lobby is, kind of a mount, it is an outcrop area and

00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:44.000
there is some spring

00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:49.849
coming down from that hill. So it could be a combination of

00:17:49.849 --> 00:17:51.680
sources of water. For

00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:55.349
example if you go to a Phoenix parking lot, it's always wet

00:17:55.349 --> 00:17:56.599
and they have been

00:17:56.599 --> 00:17:59.900
trying to fix it. Well there's no way to fix it because it

00:17:59.900 --> 00:18:01.000
's just a spring that

00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:05.450
comes from that outcrop that actually drains out. So that

00:18:05.450 --> 00:18:06.640
area probably is a

00:18:06.640 --> 00:18:14.279
combination of a rain surface and spring. Thank you.

00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:21.319
So Commissioner Dedowitz. Follow-up, thank you. If it's a

00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:22.480
spring is that is

00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:27.920
what feeding that pond? How is that pond filled? Right now

00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:30.720
I have a picture of

00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:34.519
1984 that I was able to locate on and that's the earliest

00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:35.400
picture, aerial

00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:38.910
photograph that I have of the site. And that pond was there

00:18:38.910 --> 00:18:42.720
in 1984. Okay so I

00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:47.950
don't know if they supplement the pond with water. It could

00:18:47.950 --> 00:18:49.240
be supplemented. I

00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:55.039
don't know if they have a water well. That information I

00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:55.759
don't have how

00:18:55.759 --> 00:19:04.250
that pond is supplemented. Because without let's say during

00:19:04.250 --> 00:19:07.079
a drought time

00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:10.250
evaporation would cause the water level to actually

00:19:10.250 --> 00:19:11.799
decrease. So they could

00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:16.400
either be fed by a water well, it could be fed by spring,

00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:17.519
or it could be

00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:22.000
supplemented by them bringing water. During our drought

00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:23.440
period a couple years

00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:26.549
back, do we have pictures of that pond being lower or is it

00:19:26.549 --> 00:19:30.960
the same level? Well actually

00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:37.599
even in 2000 in 2007 we have a major rain event that

00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:39.039
actually was more than a

00:19:39.039 --> 00:19:44.799
hundred year rain event for the city. So this is two years

00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:48.079
after and pretty much

00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:56.680
the band was still looking the same. 2011 is hard to tell.

00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:01.079
Which year? 2013-2014. Yeah that's what I thought. And 2013

00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:02.119
is pretty much there.

00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:05.119
Yeah.

00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:16.880
So the applicant have used the approach of proposed

00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:19.200
mitigation that deals in

00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:23.690
two ways. They will provide a green solution and a gray

00:20:23.690 --> 00:20:25.079
solution. We're going

00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:29.119
to discuss the green solution first. The green solution

00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:30.319
will be by actually

00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:35.450
mitigating by providing new trees to the site, plant new

00:20:35.450 --> 00:20:37.640
trees, to actually set

00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:41.730
aside an area containing 10 existing trees and set them

00:20:41.730 --> 00:20:42.960
aside in perpetuity

00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:45.799
to mitigate for the habitat that there will be otherwise

00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:47.279
impact. Just keep in

00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:51.150
mind that the habitat that we are impacting is water

00:20:51.150 --> 00:20:52.200
related or water

00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:56.519
driven, okay? And the habitat that they are offering for

00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:58.319
mitigation is upland,

00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:03.089
which means that it stays dry. They are not apples to

00:21:03.089 --> 00:21:04.920
apples, however we

00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:09.079
have tried to find a common currency between the two

00:21:09.079 --> 00:21:10.799
habitats and the way

00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:14.230
that we do it is based on trees. There are trees inside the

00:21:14.230 --> 00:21:15.519
stream buffer, there

00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:18.319
are trees in the mitigation area that they are proposing.

00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:20.160
So pretty much from

00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:23.470
my area standpoint there will be removing a little bit over

00:21:23.470 --> 00:21:24.640
13,000 square

00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:28.380
feet. That very similar area will be set aside for

00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:30.240
mitigation and I will show you

00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:34.839
where that mitigation area is going to be on the next slide

00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:36.480
. Within the

00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:40.960
disturbance area they will be removing 24 trees and they

00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:43.160
are proposing 18 total

00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:47.680
as a mitigation. 10 that currently exist on those on the

00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:49.559
mitigation area plus 8

00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:56.579
new trees. Caliper inches, they will be removing a total of

00:21:56.579 --> 00:21:57.920
311 caliper

00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:04.000
inches. They will be actually submitting or providing 196

00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:06.000
at planting and I

00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:09.660
wanted to make a distinction here. When they are, when they

00:22:09.660 --> 00:22:11.519
plant the trees you

00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:16.039
usually plant a small trees because they that improve the

00:22:16.039 --> 00:22:18.000
chances for the tree to

00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:22.720
adapt and to actually to thrive. So even though those

00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:25.799
inches might not look equal

00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:28.859
eventually those trees will grow and eventually those

00:22:28.859 --> 00:22:30.279
inches will increase and

00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:35.400
the total canopy that we will have is actually be greater

00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:35.720
than

00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:39.519
what they will be removing. For example the tree canopy

00:22:39.519 --> 00:22:40.519
that they will be

00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:43.710
removing is a little bit over 10,000 and you will tell me

00:22:43.710 --> 00:22:45.720
Debra the sound kind of

00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:49.670
odd because you are removing 311 trees and your canopy is

00:22:49.670 --> 00:22:50.920
only 10,000 square

00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:54.279
feet is in the way that the trees are in the riparian

00:22:54.279 --> 00:22:55.880
buffer is very heavily

00:22:55.880 --> 00:23:00.359
dense the canopy is overlapping so therefore you are not

00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:01.319
getting the benefit

00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:06.470
of the full canopy if they were planting in a very space

00:23:06.470 --> 00:23:08.759
manner. So just keep in

00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:13.269
mind but when the tree canopy, when the mitigation of the

00:23:13.269 --> 00:23:14.880
tree canopy matures we

00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:18.140
should have double the amount of the tree canopy that will

00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:19.000
otherwise be

00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:22.920
removed. Any questions? Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you

00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:25.319
chair. So I was looking

00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:28.630
and I'm gonna talk about this more when we I guess when we

00:23:28.630 --> 00:23:29.519
talk about our

00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:32.230
changing the tree ordinance because I don't really like

00:23:32.230 --> 00:23:33.359
that word mitigation

00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:36.769
when we're looking at both mitigation and preservation

00:23:36.769 --> 00:23:37.839
right so they're

00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:40.769
removing 24 trees and then we have mitigation 18 we think

00:23:40.769 --> 00:23:41.599
well that's only

00:23:41.599 --> 00:23:44.519
only six trees but really when you look at it it's

00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:45.799
significantly more because

00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:48.519
they're only planting eight like those ten trees that they

00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:49.519
're not cutting down

00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:52.920
are already there like they're just promising not to

00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:54.559
disturb them and so I

00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:57.519
guess I don't really like that language when you when you

00:23:57.519 --> 00:23:58.680
really look at it you

00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:04.160
really are losing 180 caliber inches you know they're just

00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:08.000
promising not to is

00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:10.829
this making sense I'm so sorry it's been a very long day

00:24:10.829 --> 00:24:12.119
with my children but I

00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:15.200
guess my my point is that I when you look at the numbers it

00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:16.200
really doesn't

00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:19.589
seem less like a significant give from the applicant when

00:24:19.589 --> 00:24:21.079
they're disturbing a

00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:24.250
wetland habitat and then promising not to cut down trees in

00:24:24.250 --> 00:24:25.400
a dry land habitat

00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:29.069
that's my concern the mitigation that they are proposing if

00:24:29.069 --> 00:24:30.319
above and beyond

00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:34.000
what all there was they will need to meet for the tree code

00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:35.240
okay so they are

00:24:35.240 --> 00:24:38.279
not double deep in in that regards whatever they are

00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:39.480
proposed and required

00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:43.349
to do to me the tree code will be in above and beyond of

00:24:43.349 --> 00:24:44.799
what this mitigation

00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:49.519
is okay so in that regard they will not be required if they

00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:51.119
choose to cut down

00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:55.799
those three because they have other trees to mitigate and

00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:57.160
meet the tree code

00:24:57.160 --> 00:25:02.599
they could however through this mitigation process that

00:25:02.599 --> 00:25:04.160
area will be set

00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:09.750
aside so it is a mitigate technically it is a mitigation

00:25:09.750 --> 00:25:10.680
because they are not

00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:13.769
using those to meet the tree code have you has the

00:25:13.769 --> 00:25:15.440
applicant talked at all

00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:18.750
about adding to the wetland habitat instead of just adding

00:25:18.750 --> 00:25:19.680
to the dry land

00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:24.250
one is there any are there any trees or or habitat that

00:25:24.250 --> 00:25:26.079
could be restored or

00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:32.410
repaired or well the the habitat is right now fairly it is

00:25:32.410 --> 00:25:34.240
good okay and is

00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:38.410
heavily danced when you go to mitigate a habitat like that

00:25:38.410 --> 00:25:39.759
you look for areas

00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:43.950
that where erosion is happening where decay the channel is

00:25:43.950 --> 00:25:45.000
unstable and they

00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:49.319
make it they could make it a stable or where the vegetation

00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:50.559
is sparse and you

00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:53.470
can actually add to it they can also look into the

00:25:53.470 --> 00:25:55.319
possibility of going and

00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:59.019
remove any exotic like private and things that will

00:25:59.019 --> 00:26:00.720
otherwise improve the

00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:05.029
the habitat of that area that option is always there from a

00:26:05.029 --> 00:26:07.400
tree standpoint the

00:26:07.400 --> 00:26:12.460
they're really working with a very very dense repair and

00:26:12.460 --> 00:26:14.519
buffer then you start

00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:18.539
looking into how viable planting new trees will be because

00:26:18.539 --> 00:26:19.680
those trees are

00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:24.180
competing for sunlight okay sunlight is probably the

00:26:24.180 --> 00:26:26.640
limiting factor so you will

00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:29.869
need to start looking to can they actually improve this

00:26:29.869 --> 00:26:30.920
making it better

00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:36.049
or are we talking about removing exotics and invasive

00:26:36.049 --> 00:26:38.920
species or looking into the

00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:42.390
hydraulics of the of the channel and making it better but

00:26:42.390 --> 00:26:43.480
from a vegetation

00:26:43.480 --> 00:26:48.869
standpoint it is quite dense so that's and the other the

00:26:48.869 --> 00:26:50.240
other thing that

00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:54.720
they're using is the repairing buffer will provide

00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:57.799
protection based on drainage

00:26:57.799 --> 00:27:01.160
area hundred or two hundred it doesn't means that the

00:27:01.160 --> 00:27:02.039
habitat and the

00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:05.509
vegetation stops at those boundaries okay those are kind of

00:27:05.509 --> 00:27:06.799
arbitrary boundaries

00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:10.809
that we have established so if you if you see the the area

00:27:10.809 --> 00:27:12.079
photograph this

00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:16.059
upland vegetation is a continuation is a gradient from a

00:27:16.059 --> 00:27:17.799
water related closer to

00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:21.240
the stream and that is transition is transition to an up

00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:22.160
land so what they're

00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:26.019
doing is just a continuity preserving an area that is part

00:27:26.019 --> 00:27:28.480
of the gradient

00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:32.700
vegetation wise existing in that facility in that aside yes

00:27:32.700 --> 00:27:32.920
sir

00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:35.920
commissioner Dudowitz I think what you're explaining is

00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:36.920
what I would call

00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:42.680
selective pruning to enhance the vegetation as long as it

00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:43.440
gets so

00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:46.630
compacted everybody competes and it stunts the growth of

00:27:46.630 --> 00:27:48.319
everything so what

00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:51.660
you're suggesting here at maturity is twice as much the

00:27:51.660 --> 00:27:54.160
tree canopy yeah is

00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:57.819
that five years or ten years well all the they have they

00:27:57.819 --> 00:27:59.039
have you they have

00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:04.000
selected large tree species from the city tree list okay

00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:05.920
and it might be

00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:09.190
pertinent to show where those locations are going to be

00:28:09.190 --> 00:28:11.240
okay the hatch area is

00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:16.740
the area that will be disturbed okay this is the area where

00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:18.039
the existing

00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:23.150
trees are the ten trees and this this and this are the new

00:28:23.150 --> 00:28:25.039
trees that they're

00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:28.250
going to plant what they're doing is they're using an

00:28:28.250 --> 00:28:30.079
existing gap where

00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:35.140
trees could be planted they have determined that a large

00:28:35.140 --> 00:28:36.279
tree will be

00:28:36.279 --> 00:28:39.549
the right amount of trees for that area so in that way the

00:28:39.549 --> 00:28:40.640
trees will have a

00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:44.789
chance to actually grow and expand so that's the areas that

00:28:44.789 --> 00:28:45.839
they're doing

00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:52.859
right now there is a gap right here so they are closing

00:28:52.859 --> 00:28:54.240
that gap with those new

00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:57.319
trees that's what they're doing and what's the caliper of

00:28:57.319 --> 00:28:58.759
those trees at the

00:28:58.759 --> 00:29:03.559
planting will be two inches and eventually when they will

00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:04.480
grow and be

00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:10.259
mature so um I'm not a tree expert but my understanding is

00:29:10.259 --> 00:29:11.400
when you plant trees

00:29:11.400 --> 00:29:15.369
the smaller you plant them the better chances they have to

00:29:15.369 --> 00:29:16.519
adapt to the soils

00:29:16.519 --> 00:29:22.240
on the condition and to thrive commissioner Taylor thank

00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:24.880
you chair so

00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:28.140
this arithmetic is really interesting because we have 13,

00:29:28.140 --> 00:29:30.039
000 square feet that's

00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:35.599
going to provide 19,000 square feet of canopy so I'm really

00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:36.920
fascinated by that

00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:40.589
you know this is this reminds me of the 30% lot coverage at

00:29:40.589 --> 00:29:41.720
the Kroger parking

00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:44.970
lot up here where there's a tree every hundred parking

00:29:44.970 --> 00:29:46.839
spots and I know that

00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:49.789
this is based on oh we're going to plant a chinkapin and at

00:29:49.789 --> 00:29:50.640
a hundred years of

00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:53.859
age a chinkapin can you know maximum can provide you know 5

00:29:53.859 --> 00:29:55.599
,000 square feet of

00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:58.769
canopy or 2,000 square feet of canopy or whatever it is so

00:29:58.769 --> 00:29:59.960
therefore this two

00:29:59.960 --> 00:30:05.420
inch chinkapin qualifies us for 5,000 square feet of canopy

00:30:05.420 --> 00:30:07.400
removal what kind

00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:10.319
of species are currently in the ESA that are being removed

00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:12.599
there a combination

00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:21.960
of elms let me pull that information quickly there are Oaks

00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:29.680
, Elms, we have

00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:38.380
honeysuckle we have mulberries, elms, cedar elms and post o

00:30:38.380 --> 00:30:40.039
aks okay so it

00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:43.259
sounds like this was kind of cross timbers red red sand

00:30:43.259 --> 00:30:44.359
soil with cross

00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:48.640
timbers type yeah well just keep in mind from a ecoregion

00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:50.359
standpoint the eastern

00:30:50.359 --> 00:30:55.240
part of Denton it falls within the eastern cross timber ec

00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:56.480
oregion habitat

00:30:56.480 --> 00:31:01.980
and then the other half is within the Grand Prairie ecoreg

00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:03.359
ion so pretty much

00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:08.859
we're in that middle where it is a transition of a little

00:31:08.859 --> 00:31:10.240
bit of the two and

00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:13.059
I've noticed in the description that the pond is going to

00:31:13.059 --> 00:31:14.920
become a water feature

00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:21.900
with storm water mitigation above the low trend with the

00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:23.079
tension above normal pool

00:31:23.079 --> 00:31:26.750
elevation as it puts it this might be a question for for

00:31:26.750 --> 00:31:28.240
planning more than you

00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:33.019
but I was curious if the increased elevation during during

00:31:33.019 --> 00:31:34.160
detention would

00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:40.599
have any impact to the existing trees it's my understanding

00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:41.480
that they they

00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:45.240
will use this as a water as an amenity feature for the site

00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:46.640
and they will have

00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:50.950
to meet the detention requirements using a separate pond so

00:31:50.950 --> 00:31:52.079
that in on the side

00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:55.750
will be potentially two ponds one that will be used for the

00:31:55.750 --> 00:31:56.519
for the water

00:31:56.519 --> 00:32:00.599
features and then there will be one for drainage purposes

00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:01.559
is that reflected on

00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:06.640
the plot what you have before you with regard to the plan

00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:07.319
it's just a

00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:10.630
preliminary plot that shows your basic easements in terms

00:32:10.630 --> 00:32:11.920
of full schematic for

00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:16.119
drainage that will come forward with your final plotting

00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:16.759
process

00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:24.869
Commissioner Beck. Thank you chair. We've been talking

00:32:24.869 --> 00:32:27.119
about the trees and that is important I'm glad that was

00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:32.200
brought up but we haven't addressed the repairing buffer on

00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:35.319
the ground which is an accumulation of debris that takes

00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:39.599
years to do so we're going to lose that for a long period

00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:44.039
of time and as we see this new ESA is going to be right in

00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:49.480
front of this pond so I'm kind of concerned that that will

00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:51.000
take much longer

00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:55.309
time to revitalize or rejuvenate or whatever you want to

00:32:55.309 --> 00:33:01.369
say then the trees should we be concerned about that and so

00:33:01.369 --> 00:33:06.200
is there something we can do to move it along a little bit

00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:12.319
quicker? Well the the understory is as important as the

00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:16.079
trees are because they feed from each other okay and it's a

00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:19.170
cycle. What are you calling it? The understory? Understory.

00:33:19.170 --> 00:33:20.960
Understory vegetation which is

00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:24.009
everything that goes underneath the tree canopy of the

00:33:24.009 --> 00:33:28.579
trees okay so because we're talking about separate

00:33:28.579 --> 00:33:34.390
different type of habitats the area where the the

00:33:34.390 --> 00:33:40.960
mitigation is going to happen could be could be first be

00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:46.960
not do any type of management when I say management

00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:51.069
most people think about moldy area mold lawns very manic

00:33:51.069 --> 00:33:55.619
ured type of settings in that area that type of management

00:33:55.619 --> 00:33:59.000
will not be appropriate just to let that however we can

00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:04.730
also supplement that area and I don't want to put words on

00:34:04.730 --> 00:34:08.119
the applicant at this point but technically speaking you

00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:12.360
can actually plant other species grasses and so forth that

00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:16.440
could actually start kind of giving a head start

00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:22.130
of that area to improve the quality of that understory

00:34:22.130 --> 00:34:27.079
however as nature goes you let them take its own course and

00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:31.130
eventually we will get there but it could be it takes some

00:34:31.130 --> 00:34:35.429
time so you're definitely right. Any other questions?

00:34:35.429 --> 00:34:40.440
Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you Chair. Maybe you're going

00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:42.719
to get to this slide later but I'm curious how that road

00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:45.440
will affect any wildlife that's going to be affected by the

00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:45.440
understory.

00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:50.139
Wildlife that lives north and south trying to get to and

00:34:50.139 --> 00:34:53.760
from the pond maybe for hatching or is how are we

00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:57.780
addressing that? At this point the applicant is proposing

00:34:57.780 --> 00:35:01.239
to put to make that crossing they will put some culverts

00:35:01.239 --> 00:35:04.429
underneath the road to support the road so those are big

00:35:04.429 --> 00:35:09.440
pipelines pipes that goes underneath so during low water

00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:14.440
regimes the species will be able to travel underneath

00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:22.500
the road. Species they found their way there's born and

00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:30.309
they will use those culverts as a connection from upstream

00:35:30.309 --> 00:35:38.159
and downstream. Any other questions? Okay. Commissioner

00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:42.199
Beck. Animal species the information you sent Julia

00:35:42.199 --> 00:35:42.440
mentioned talked about

00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:48.070
the red snake and the spiny lizard. What other species are

00:35:48.070 --> 00:35:53.280
in there? Well those were pictures that when we went to the

00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:57.920
site back in 2008 we were surprised about how prevalent

00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:03.440
wildlife was there. You know when they well wildlife tend

00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:07.440
to go away to hide when they feel human presence.

00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:11.639
So when we were on the site back in 2008 it was quite

00:36:11.639 --> 00:36:16.000
interesting to see actually see wildlife there. So that

00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:21.369
makes us believe that it is heavily used. Okay. We didn't

00:36:21.369 --> 00:36:26.920
make a survey about wildlife species we just assume that

00:36:26.920 --> 00:36:35.429
they are there from rodents to vertebrates to amphibians

00:36:35.429 --> 00:36:36.440
and so on.

00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:39.389
So there will be a little bit of everything. Will we lose

00:36:39.389 --> 00:36:44.230
those for a while or permanently do we know that? Well if

00:36:44.230 --> 00:36:50.710
the entire riparian buffer were to be eliminated I will say

00:36:50.710 --> 00:36:56.159
yes because then even for migratory birds they will not

00:36:56.159 --> 00:36:58.440
have that chance to kind of stop by.

00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:04.070
On that stretch because it is a localized disturbance I

00:37:04.070 --> 00:37:09.599
will say that we will still have the possibility of the

00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:15.070
wildlife to stay there. How much traffic it goes you know

00:37:15.070 --> 00:37:19.760
that might scare some species some birds to actually nest

00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:23.440
in that area or to go.

00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:28.150
That's something that it is a reality but I think that

00:37:28.150 --> 00:37:33.539
having the riparian buffer upstream and downstream we will

00:37:33.539 --> 00:37:38.440
not lose all the wildlife that we are having there.

00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:42.440
Perhaps in time it will build back up. Thank you.

00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:45.500
I have one question before you move on from that slide. I

00:37:45.500 --> 00:37:48.139
think you stated earlier that the pond as it exists is not

00:37:48.139 --> 00:37:50.739
going to be for detention there's going to probably be a

00:37:50.739 --> 00:37:52.440
separate area for detention.

00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:54.440
That's my understanding.

00:37:54.440 --> 00:37:59.869
And that will come back. So I mean, technically, the

00:37:59.869 --> 00:38:04.010
applicant could if they want to fill the pond and since it

00:38:04.010 --> 00:38:06.440
's not going to be for detention.

00:38:06.440 --> 00:38:09.099
They're preserving that and making a water feature out of

00:38:09.099 --> 00:38:13.440
it. And then also maintaining all this riparian buffer.

00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:17.480
Correct. So if another use came in, possibly that pond

00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:20.440
since it's not being used for detention.

00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:24.300
There's no riparian buffer around it, it could be filled in

00:38:24.300 --> 00:38:28.059
completely for example like the little pond at the corner

00:38:28.059 --> 00:38:30.440
of Hickory Creek and 2181.

00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:33.980
I can understand. I can answer that from planning. The rez

00:38:33.980 --> 00:38:37.440
oning for this property in 2008.

00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:40.860
That ordinance that rezoned it did require that the pond

00:38:40.860 --> 00:38:41.440
stay.

00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:47.440
So thank you. That pond would stay.

00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:51.780
Also, it's my understanding that as a part of that zoning

00:38:51.780 --> 00:38:55.440
overlay, they have to leave the vegetation.

00:38:55.440 --> 00:39:00.980
Did you see this line that goes kind of diagonally? That's

00:39:00.980 --> 00:39:05.340
the separation that they must keep vegetated as a part of

00:39:05.340 --> 00:39:07.440
the zoning condition.

00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:12.650
All of the riparian buffer as it curves down encroaching

00:39:12.650 --> 00:39:18.070
into that area. So that stretch of vegetation, even when it

00:39:18.070 --> 00:39:21.440
's outside the riparian buffer, will have to be preserved.

00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:24.440
Okay. Commissioner Taylor.

00:39:24.440 --> 00:39:28.099
So following up on that point, there's a piece of that that

00:39:28.099 --> 00:39:32.179
looks like it's going to be rowed. Wouldn't that not be

00:39:32.179 --> 00:39:33.440
vegetated?

00:39:33.440 --> 00:39:39.440
Right at the top corner. Keep going to your right. Keep

00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:39.440
going to your right.

00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:43.780
Looks like, is that like the 30? Well. Up and across. Keep

00:39:43.780 --> 00:39:50.440
going. That little dashed corner line is what, yes.

00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:54.159
So if that's the, whatever it is, 30 or 40 foot buffer off

00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:54.440
the.

00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:57.010
Are you talking about this, probably this triangle right

00:39:57.010 --> 00:39:58.440
here? Yes.

00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:04.909
Potentially, yes. But the other thing is, that will be

00:40:04.909 --> 00:40:09.710
something that the applicant will have, could check if twe

00:40:09.710 --> 00:40:13.639
aking the geometry of the road could actually avoid that

00:40:13.639 --> 00:40:14.440
area.

00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:20.440
If not, they will have to get creative.

00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:26.219
So I guess I have some concerns just about how this is

00:40:26.219 --> 00:40:29.440
going right now. We have a lot of backup material.

00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:33.320
Like the ESA mitigation plan that indicates that the pond

00:40:33.320 --> 00:40:37.440
is going to be a detention pond as well as a water feature.

00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:41.480
And then we have information about an overlay requirement

00:40:41.480 --> 00:40:44.889
that says that an area must be vegetated, but it's inside

00:40:44.889 --> 00:40:48.820
of the 50 foot private drive area and appears to be planned

00:40:48.820 --> 00:40:49.440
to be paved.

00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:55.679
We know that we don't, we have a preliminary plat that we

00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:59.440
don't know, that will depend on the outcome of the ESA,

00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:01.440
alternate ESA approval.

00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:04.630
And then we know that the final plat will be quite

00:41:04.630 --> 00:41:08.440
different from the drawings we're being presented.

00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:13.110
Is there any way to get more consistent information about

00:41:13.110 --> 00:41:17.670
the plans so that we can have a plan and not five competing

00:41:17.670 --> 00:41:19.440
plans to approve?

00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:22.440
I'll ask staff to address that.

00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:25.690
Thank you. The intent of the final plat is to provide

00:41:25.690 --> 00:41:28.670
guidance as far as the lot layout is concerned and your

00:41:28.670 --> 00:41:31.440
basic easements that are associated with it.

00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:35.389
Hand in hand, the applicant has submitted civil drawings

00:41:35.389 --> 00:41:38.440
for review, which are in very good shape.

00:41:38.440 --> 00:41:41.949
That being said, what you have before you, the schematic

00:41:41.949 --> 00:41:45.690
drawing reflecting the impact on the riparian buffer, that

00:41:45.690 --> 00:41:48.929
ESA component, and the mitigation in terms of square

00:41:48.929 --> 00:41:51.440
footage, that is indeed accurate.

00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:54.440
In terms of how would they offset, and Deborah mentioned it

00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:57.190
's not a comparison of apples to apples to a great extent

00:41:57.190 --> 00:42:00.079
because you've got two mechanisms, a wet one and then you

00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:03.079
've got a gray mechanism as well that's associated with this

00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:03.440
.

00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:06.849
The other thing that I do want to emphasize is as it stands

00:42:06.849 --> 00:42:10.440
with what we have received in terms of the civil drawings.

00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:13.110
And what you see on these schematic drawings that have been

00:42:13.110 --> 00:42:15.610
provided to you for illustrative purposes to give you a

00:42:15.610 --> 00:42:18.059
visual perspective on what is going on and what would be

00:42:18.059 --> 00:42:19.440
perceived once that,

00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:23.380
should that alternative ESA be approved, then at final

00:42:23.380 --> 00:42:24.440
plotting time,

00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:28.949
all the specificity related to the infrastructure would be

00:42:28.949 --> 00:42:31.440
reflected on your final plot.

00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:35.130
In this case, what we're looking at is purely to look at

00:42:35.130 --> 00:42:38.239
and narrow in into this component of the request, which is

00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:40.440
an alternative ESA.

00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:42.929
And based on the parameters that they've provided, which is

00:42:42.929 --> 00:42:46.760
they would like to provide a common access/private drive to

00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:48.440
be able to access the rear of those lots,

00:42:48.440 --> 00:42:54.440
which from a circulation standpoint is a sensible route.

00:42:54.440 --> 00:42:57.030
But we also know in order for them to do that, they would

00:42:57.030 --> 00:42:58.440
be impacting that ESA.

00:42:58.440 --> 00:43:01.590
How much of the ESA would they be impacting, which we've

00:43:01.590 --> 00:43:02.440
provided.

00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:06.440
Now, would things change? Can things change? Absolutely.

00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:09.030
What if there's a significant civil issue that needs,

00:43:09.030 --> 00:43:11.440
engineering issue that needs to be addressed?

00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:14.389
That could change and the ESA would have to come before you

00:43:14.389 --> 00:43:15.440
to be revisited.

00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:18.519
So from what we've received thus far, from the civil

00:43:18.519 --> 00:43:20.440
drawings that we've received,

00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:22.969
we're fairly confident with the material that we've

00:43:22.969 --> 00:43:25.570
received that those would be your mitigation areas or

00:43:25.570 --> 00:43:26.440
parameters.

00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:29.000
Now you've pointed out, and justly so, that there's a

00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:31.440
corner that shows that it needs to be protected.

00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:36.690
We also have an overlay district that has specifics related

00:43:36.690 --> 00:43:39.409
to screening mechanisms around the boundary or perimeter of

00:43:39.409 --> 00:43:40.440
this property.

00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:44.239
But at final plat stage, all the pertinent infrastructure

00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:47.440
would be provided and reflected on the plat,

00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:50.010
which would be consistent with what's reflected on this

00:43:50.010 --> 00:43:50.440
drawing.

00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:53.239
And if it were not and the ESA were changed or the limits

00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:55.440
or the boundaries of that were changed,

00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:58.409
you would see another, you would see a variance request or

00:43:58.409 --> 00:44:00.440
an alternative ESA come before you.

00:44:00.440 --> 00:44:03.179
Another alternative ESA. So is, and this would be null and

00:44:03.179 --> 00:44:03.440
void.

00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:08.440
So the final plat is, has been submitted?

00:44:08.440 --> 00:44:10.440
It will be submitted imminently.

00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:13.800
Okay. And what is the, this is the first I've heard of the

00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:14.440
overlay.

00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:16.440
I don't know if it was in the backup, I missed it.

00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:20.440
Could we go over what the overlay entails?

00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:23.659
Julie, would you just talk about just the specifics

00:44:23.659 --> 00:44:24.440
associated,

00:44:24.440 --> 00:44:27.320
which is primarily the water amenity of the water feature

00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:28.440
that we've discussed,

00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:31.489
and then having landscaping around the boundary of the

00:44:31.489 --> 00:44:34.440
property within a 50 foot landscape buffer?

00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:38.440
Yes. I'm going to speak from memory here.

00:44:38.440 --> 00:44:45.440
The, the 2008 overlay required that,

00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:47.440
we'll just look here. That's the best example.

00:44:47.440 --> 00:44:49.440
That this pond remain.

00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:52.909
There would be a 50 foot landscape buffer between any

00:44:52.909 --> 00:44:58.690
development and the adjacent residential along this area as

00:44:58.690 --> 00:44:59.440
well as,

00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:02.440
as well as this area,

00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:05.440
which is in excess of what the code would typically require

00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:09.170
between a commercial development and a single family

00:45:09.170 --> 00:45:10.440
residential development.

00:45:10.440 --> 00:45:14.440
Also, to protect the views of the pond,

00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:18.329
a wrought iron fence is required on this side of the

00:45:18.329 --> 00:45:19.440
development.

00:45:19.440 --> 00:45:22.440
And then a masonry fence will be required on this side,

00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:26.800
not per that ordinance, but per the Denton development code

00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:30.260
requirements that fencing would be required along this side

00:45:30.260 --> 00:45:30.440
.

00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:36.059
So, so those are, those are what the ordinance added to as

00:45:36.059 --> 00:45:38.440
far as site design for the property.

00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:42.440
Were there any other portions of the overlay?

00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:45.010
I can, I can pull up a copy of it and I can provide that to

00:45:45.010 --> 00:45:46.440
you at regular session.

00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:50.230
I did not bring a copy of it with me today, but I can

00:45:50.230 --> 00:45:53.440
certainly provide that to you.

00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:54.440
Commissioner Roselle.

00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:57.769
Thank you. Just for my identification, those houses cannot

00:45:57.769 --> 00:45:59.440
put up a privacy fence.

00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:01.440
They have to have a wrought iron back fence.

00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:06.440
Per the ordinance, a wrought iron fence in order to,

00:46:06.440 --> 00:46:10.449
the previous project that was before, before city council

00:46:10.449 --> 00:46:11.440
was,

00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:14.920
they were concerned about the views for the pond because

00:46:14.920 --> 00:46:18.440
they really enjoy the pond and the views that it provided.

00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:20.440
And so they wanted to protect those views.

00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:24.099
So that's, that's why the wrought iron was part of that is

00:46:24.099 --> 00:46:25.440
my understanding.

00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:28.659
As a side note, it might be worthwhile looking into now

00:46:28.659 --> 00:46:30.440
that their views are Buc-ee's.

00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:34.599
What we can do to update that and give them some freedom

00:46:34.599 --> 00:46:35.440
there.

00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:38.440
That's a side note I know, but that might be.

00:46:38.440 --> 00:46:39.440
And that's a fair comment.

00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:43.579
Also that 50 foot landscape buffer is intended to, to

00:46:43.579 --> 00:46:46.440
mitigate some of those visual nuisances.

00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:52.030
But, but I know that the neighbors are concerned and are,

00:46:52.030 --> 00:46:53.440
are providing us feedback for what they're.

00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:55.440
Sure. Okay.

00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:57.440
Menal, did you have something you wanted to add?

00:46:57.440 --> 00:46:58.440
I was going to call on Commissioner Dudle.

00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:00.440
Before I do, I'm mindful of the clock.

00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:02.440
I know we have another item as well.

00:47:02.440 --> 00:47:06.110
So, want as much discussion as we can, but also want to try

00:47:06.110 --> 00:47:07.440
to keep it as best we can,

00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:10.260
confirmed to the ESA question that we have on this so that

00:47:10.260 --> 00:47:11.440
we can get through this.

00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:14.750
And I know we have another very important item to go over

00:47:14.750 --> 00:47:15.440
as well.

00:47:15.440 --> 00:47:16.440
Sure.

00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:17.440
Commissioner Dudlewicz.

00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:20.250
Any significant question, but the homeowners are allowed to

00:47:20.250 --> 00:47:22.920
put up whatever fence in their property line as they wish,

00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:23.440
right?

00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:25.650
If they meet the DENT development code requirements for

00:47:25.650 --> 00:47:26.440
perimeter fence.

00:47:26.440 --> 00:47:27.440
Okay.

00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:30.440
So if they were concerned, they would put something up.

00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:31.440
Thank you.

00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:34.079
And just to point out, the concept plan had the dried

00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:35.440
attention in this area.

00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:37.440
Okay.

00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:41.440
I'll let Deborah.

00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:42.440
Commissioner Bruegel.

00:47:42.440 --> 00:47:43.440
Thank you, Chair.

00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:45.440
Sorry, can you go back to that slide that you just.

00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:47.440
Actually, you know what, go back.

00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:48.440
That one works too.

00:47:48.440 --> 00:47:50.440
Okay.

00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:57.780
So I understand Buc-E's would like to build a road to give

00:47:57.780 --> 00:47:58.440
back access to these other lots in the front.

00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:01.440
What's this curb cut on the left side there?

00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:03.650
I think in your concept plan, it looked like it was going

00:48:03.650 --> 00:48:05.440
to go, no, keep going to that right there.

00:48:05.440 --> 00:48:06.440
That right there?

00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:07.440
That's lot two.

00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:09.440
Yeah.

00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:10.440
That is lot two.

00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:12.440
But that's outside the riparian habitat.

00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:15.269
So if they wanted to build, they would just have to meet

00:48:15.269 --> 00:48:18.440
the tree code when they're cutting down all those trees.

00:48:18.440 --> 00:48:20.440
Correct.

00:48:20.440 --> 00:48:24.550
So the requirements of the tree code, the mitigation and

00:48:24.550 --> 00:48:27.190
preservation requirements as it relates to the development

00:48:27.190 --> 00:48:30.440
of the site when they go vertical, applies, still applies.

00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:35.050
That is, the ESA mitigation that you see is just the ESA

00:48:35.050 --> 00:48:36.440
mitigation.

00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:39.179
Any other mitigation associated with the development of the

00:48:39.179 --> 00:48:40.440
site would be required.

00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:42.440
Okay.

00:48:42.440 --> 00:48:43.440
Thank you.

00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:44.440
Okay.

00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:45.440
I'm sorry.

00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:47.440
You're good.

00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:49.679
Well, do we have any other question about the green

00:48:49.679 --> 00:48:50.440
mitigation?

00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:52.440
Let's move with the gray.

00:48:52.440 --> 00:48:53.440
Okay.

00:48:53.440 --> 00:48:56.440
What is shown in pink is the drainage area.

00:48:56.440 --> 00:48:59.650
Right now, the applicant is proposing to provide two stump

00:48:59.650 --> 00:49:00.440
scepters.

00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:05.099
Stump scepters are a stone water controls to actually treat

00:49:05.099 --> 00:49:07.440
the quality of the run-up.

00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:11.619
In the city of Denton, we have separated a sanitary sewer

00:49:11.619 --> 00:49:16.440
system, meaning that the storm water is not treated.

00:49:16.440 --> 00:49:19.710
It goes into the storm drain, into the pipe, is discharged

00:49:19.710 --> 00:49:24.079
to the nearest creek or lake, and that water is not treated

00:49:24.079 --> 00:49:24.440
.

00:49:24.440 --> 00:49:25.440
Okay.

00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:29.480
With the proposal of the two stump scepters, the applicant

00:49:29.480 --> 00:49:34.440
is proposing to attain the same filtrating capabilities

00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:36.440
that riparian buffers provide

00:49:36.440 --> 00:49:39.440
by retaining sediments, nutrients, and so forth.

00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:40.440
Okay.

00:49:40.440 --> 00:49:44.110
So the two pink areas right here, this would be one

00:49:44.110 --> 00:49:45.440
drainage area.

00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:48.440
The other drainage area would be right here.

00:49:48.440 --> 00:49:49.440
Okay.

00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:52.010
So what they will do, they will put the stump scepters at

00:49:52.010 --> 00:49:55.059
the lowest point to be able to capture that water, process

00:49:55.059 --> 00:49:57.440
it, and then release it.

00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:01.110
So in that way, when it released, it is in better quality

00:50:01.110 --> 00:50:03.440
than when it was first captured.

00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:06.800
When we are going through what a stump scepter is, we have

00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:08.440
a cool animation for you.

00:50:08.440 --> 00:50:10.440
I'm very proud.

00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:13.030
What a stump scepter is, this is the inside of a stump scep

00:50:13.030 --> 00:50:13.440
ter.

00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:18.440
Pretty much water comes, okay, by a vortex.

00:50:18.440 --> 00:50:23.139
All the sediments, water and sediments and floatables and

00:50:23.139 --> 00:50:28.010
grass and fat, they are send it to the bottom of the

00:50:28.010 --> 00:50:29.440
container.

00:50:29.440 --> 00:50:32.670
The sediments will actually set it out of solution because

00:50:32.670 --> 00:50:34.440
they are heavier than water.

00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:36.440
Therefore, they accumulate in the bottom.

00:50:36.440 --> 00:50:40.440
The oils and fats, they tend to float.

00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:44.440
This barrier right here would be -- am I moving this?

00:50:44.440 --> 00:50:45.440
Where's my pointer?

00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:46.440
Okay.

00:50:46.440 --> 00:50:50.130
So this barrier right here would be able to take care of

00:50:50.130 --> 00:50:53.440
the fat and oils, anything that floats on top of the water.

00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:59.550
And then water by the head of the pressure, it will come

00:50:59.550 --> 00:51:00.440
out.

00:51:00.440 --> 00:51:03.440
Where's my pointer again?

00:51:03.440 --> 00:51:06.440
I lost it.

00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:10.440
Water will come out and then get going.

00:51:10.440 --> 00:51:13.440
I think staff came in that's doing video.

00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:15.650
They're having a hard time hearing if you're not right in

00:51:15.650 --> 00:51:16.440
front of the mic.

00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:17.440
Sorry.

00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:18.440
They're missing what you're saying.

00:51:18.440 --> 00:51:20.440
So I'll just state that.

00:51:20.440 --> 00:51:23.909
This is how it looks when the actual storm scepter is

00:51:23.909 --> 00:51:25.440
filled with water.

00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:27.440
This is the vortex.

00:51:27.440 --> 00:51:31.539
This is how the outside of the storm scepter looks like and

00:51:31.539 --> 00:51:34.090
how it would be actually buried into the ground to be able

00:51:34.090 --> 00:51:35.440
to get all the water.

00:51:35.440 --> 00:51:48.000
And hopefully we can -- this is just a quick animation of

00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:49.440
how a storm scepter works.

00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:54.440
I'm going to use a heavy rainfall event.

00:51:54.440 --> 00:51:55.440
Okay.

00:51:55.440 --> 00:51:59.210
I'm going to start adding -- you will see how the water --

00:51:59.210 --> 00:52:01.440
the runoff start filling in.

00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:03.440
This is the vortex.

00:52:03.440 --> 00:52:06.769
I'm going to start adding the oil and I'm going to start

00:52:06.769 --> 00:52:10.440
adding the sediments that washes off with that runoff.

00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:11.440
Okay.

00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:15.900
So you can see how the sediments will be collected on the

00:52:15.900 --> 00:52:20.070
bottom of the side and how the oil -- you see this line

00:52:20.070 --> 00:52:21.440
right here?

00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:24.849
This is supposed to be the layer of oil and fat that will

00:52:24.849 --> 00:52:26.440
start accumulating.

00:52:26.440 --> 00:52:30.880
So pretty much when the water goes through that cycle, what

00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:35.619
it comes out through here, it will be a cleaner water that

00:52:35.619 --> 00:52:38.440
will be discharged into the creek.

00:52:38.440 --> 00:52:42.349
And that's how they are proposing to mitigate for the loss

00:52:42.349 --> 00:52:46.440
of the filtration capabilities that that stretch of repair

00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:48.440
and buffer is providing.

00:52:48.440 --> 00:52:50.440
Commissioner Bruegel.

00:52:50.440 --> 00:52:51.440
Thank you, Chair.

00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:53.920
Can you show me again on the map where they're going to

00:52:53.920 --> 00:52:55.440
place those storm scepters?

00:52:55.440 --> 00:52:56.440
Are there only two of them?

00:52:56.440 --> 00:52:57.440
Yes.

00:52:57.440 --> 00:52:58.440
Is that right?

00:52:58.440 --> 00:52:59.440
Let me go here.

00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:00.440
Okay.

00:53:00.440 --> 00:53:11.440
What they're showing right now are the two drainage areas.

00:53:11.440 --> 00:53:15.400
So they will put it in the lowest point because that's what

00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:19.760
they want to do to capture all that water, water moved by

00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:22.440
gravity into those two sides.

00:53:22.440 --> 00:53:28.440
And then it will be treated and then discharged.

00:53:28.440 --> 00:53:32.400
Where the storm drains are going to be, that will be

00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:37.440
something that will be defined during the final plot, okay?

00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:41.440
The same as the sizing of those two devices.

00:53:41.440 --> 00:53:45.699
Are we going to size it to deal with the first inch and a

00:53:45.699 --> 00:53:50.179
half of runoff or we are going to discharge for the rainy

00:53:50.179 --> 00:53:53.440
event equivalent to 25 years?

00:53:53.440 --> 00:53:57.789
Those are the details that during the final plot, staff

00:53:57.789 --> 00:54:02.230
will be able to discuss and decide in conjunction with the

00:54:02.230 --> 00:54:03.440
applicant.

00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:04.440
So a follow up question then.

00:54:04.440 --> 00:54:08.179
So there's going to be some culverts underneath the road to

00:54:08.179 --> 00:54:11.780
connect the water runoff from the north side to the south

00:54:11.780 --> 00:54:12.440
side.

00:54:12.440 --> 00:54:15.260
Are there any storm scepters planned for one of those cul

00:54:15.260 --> 00:54:17.889
verts, for example, because you're going to get runoff from

00:54:17.889 --> 00:54:18.440
I-35.

00:54:18.440 --> 00:54:20.989
You're going to get runoff from the development on the

00:54:20.989 --> 00:54:22.440
other side of the highway.

00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:25.440
That's all going to dump right into the north side.

00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:30.070
And if there's nothing to, and we've disturbed now more of

00:54:30.070 --> 00:54:33.059
that riparian habitat, which would act as a further

00:54:33.059 --> 00:54:34.440
filtration system.

00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:37.539
Now we're going to get more polluted water just running

00:54:37.539 --> 00:54:38.440
directly into.

00:54:38.440 --> 00:54:41.369
>> Okay, well the drainage area that the applicant have

00:54:41.369 --> 00:54:46.230
identified going into those points, pretty much this is the

00:54:46.230 --> 00:54:48.440
frontage of the lot.

00:54:48.440 --> 00:54:50.440
So pretty much it will be this area.

00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:54.309
During the final platting, that's where the location would

00:54:54.309 --> 00:54:55.440
be optimized.

00:54:55.440 --> 00:54:59.320
Okay, and then they will have to determine where that storm

00:54:59.320 --> 00:55:02.440
scepter will be able to do the greater good.

00:55:02.440 --> 00:55:08.639
Okay, so at that time, we will be able to pinpoint the

00:55:08.639 --> 00:55:11.440
locations and to be able to size it.

00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:15.110
We know that at this point what the applicant is proposing

00:55:15.110 --> 00:55:17.440
is to provide two storm scepters.

00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:20.440
One coming on each direction.

00:55:20.440 --> 00:55:24.679
And however, the sizing of the storm sector and the

00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:28.440
ultimate location that have not been determined yet.

00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:34.099
>> Is there a way to build a culvert that also can act as a

00:55:34.099 --> 00:55:36.440
, like I'm thinking, you know, at Razor Ranch,

00:55:36.440 --> 00:55:39.849
those cool curb cuts that they have with all those plants

00:55:39.849 --> 00:55:43.190
in between to kind of filter the waters that runs across

00:55:43.190 --> 00:55:44.440
the parking lot.

00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:47.239
Like so the parking lot, there's a filtration system built

00:55:47.239 --> 00:55:48.440
into the parking lot.

00:55:48.440 --> 00:55:51.019
Is there any sort of system that can be built into a cul

00:55:51.019 --> 00:55:51.440
vert to-

00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:53.929
>> Well- >> Like there's 96 gas pumps there and there's a

00:55:53.929 --> 00:55:55.440
highway on the other side.

00:55:55.440 --> 00:55:57.440
I want to make sure that we keep our water clean.

00:55:57.440 --> 00:56:01.719
>> Okay, the runoff from the travel center itself will not

00:56:01.719 --> 00:56:04.440
be towards this location, okay?

00:56:04.440 --> 00:56:08.369
We are pretty much dealing with the runoff that will be

00:56:08.369 --> 00:56:11.440
generated by the out parcels, okay?

00:56:11.440 --> 00:56:14.789
So we are not dealing with the runoff coming out of the

00:56:14.789 --> 00:56:15.440
pumps.

00:56:15.440 --> 00:56:19.099
We're just coming, dealing with the runoff from here, from

00:56:19.099 --> 00:56:20.440
those two parcels.

00:56:20.440 --> 00:56:27.440
For example, if, and we are not there yet.

00:56:27.440 --> 00:56:29.920
One of the reasons that Razor Ranch put all those controls

00:56:29.920 --> 00:56:32.940
is because the amount of parking, excess parking that they

00:56:32.940 --> 00:56:34.440
were putting, okay?

00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:37.840
If this development were to propose excess parking, which

00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:40.440
we have not discussed at this point.

00:56:40.440 --> 00:56:42.679
We don't know if that's the case.

00:56:42.679 --> 00:56:47.590
But if they were to go that route, then staff will bring an

00:56:47.590 --> 00:56:51.570
alternative development plan before you and we will discuss

00:56:51.570 --> 00:56:53.440
those possibilities.

00:56:53.440 --> 00:56:58.610
This is just to mitigate for the loss of the ESA, nothing

00:56:58.610 --> 00:56:59.440
more.

00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:02.920
At that time, any other deviation that they might be

00:57:02.920 --> 00:57:06.800
considering will have to be mitigated and assessed at that

00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:07.440
time.

00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:09.920
>> It seems like this would be the right time to be talking

00:57:09.920 --> 00:57:12.079
about more filtration since we're talking about an

00:57:12.079 --> 00:57:13.440
alternative ESA, right?

00:57:13.440 --> 00:57:16.920
And I guess my concern is now we're cutting out a chunk of

00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:18.440
this riparian habitat,

00:57:18.440 --> 00:57:22.230
which would have worked as a further filtration system from

00:57:22.230 --> 00:57:25.440
the properties on either side and the highway.

00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:28.260
And it seems like this would be a good time to talk about

00:57:28.260 --> 00:57:32.920
how can we construct a culvert system that could act also

00:57:32.920 --> 00:57:35.440
as a filtration system.

00:57:35.440 --> 00:57:40.260
>> There are controls where you can, and I think Chuy's

00:57:40.260 --> 00:57:42.440
might be having that.

00:57:42.440 --> 00:57:49.440
The storm, they call it the skirt, if I'm not mistaken.

00:57:49.440 --> 00:57:53.599
You put that, it's a piece of fabric that uses a filtration

00:57:53.599 --> 00:57:54.440
device.

00:57:54.440 --> 00:57:57.559
It needs to be replaced every so often as a part of the

00:57:57.559 --> 00:57:58.440
maintenance,

00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:03.300
where anything that goes through the culvert actually is

00:58:03.300 --> 00:58:06.440
filtered by that piece of fabric.

00:58:06.440 --> 00:58:10.280
At this point, the applicant has chosen to use the storm s

00:58:10.280 --> 00:58:13.440
cepter as the most viable solution for them.

00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:15.440
And that's what we are presenting to you.

00:58:15.440 --> 00:58:18.869
>> And do the storm scepters, how do we know if they're

00:58:18.869 --> 00:58:22.440
working or if they need to be replaced or repaired?

00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:26.519
>> Like any other controls, they come with a maintenance

00:58:26.519 --> 00:58:27.440
program.

00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:31.440
And because this is going to be privately maintained,

00:58:31.440 --> 00:58:36.460
it will be the responsibility of the owner of the parcel

00:58:36.460 --> 00:58:37.440
where the storm sector sits or

00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:41.690
some sort of business association if they choose to go that

00:58:41.690 --> 00:58:44.440
route to actually maintain those.

00:58:44.440 --> 00:58:48.000
During the final plan, staff were required to provide a

00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:50.440
maintenance plan for those devices.

00:58:50.440 --> 00:58:54.199
So whenever somebody buys it from the developer, they will

00:58:54.199 --> 00:58:56.440
know we have this device.

00:58:56.440 --> 00:59:01.440
These are my maintenance requirements to keep that.

00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:02.670
>> And they have to submit that to the city to say, yes,

00:59:02.670 --> 00:59:03.440
they are indeed working.

00:59:03.440 --> 00:59:05.440
We had it checked by a-

00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:08.599
>> Most of the time, if they are not being maintained, we

00:59:08.599 --> 00:59:11.440
will start seeing some changes, okay?

00:59:11.440 --> 00:59:15.449
And then we will be able to go back and say, you are not in

00:59:15.449 --> 00:59:18.440
compliance with your alternative development plan.

00:59:18.440 --> 00:59:22.820
And one of the conditions for the approval is actually the

00:59:22.820 --> 00:59:26.440
production of that maintenance document.

00:59:26.440 --> 00:59:32.880
So if the storm sector were to fail due to lack of

00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:33.440
maintenance,

00:59:33.440 --> 00:59:37.949
then the staff will be able to go back and say, you are not

00:59:37.949 --> 00:59:40.440
in compliance with your ADP.

00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:41.440
You need to take care of it.

00:59:41.440 --> 00:59:45.440
>> Thank you.

00:59:45.440 --> 00:59:46.440
>> Real quick-

00:59:46.440 --> 00:59:47.440
>> Commissioner Beck.

00:59:47.440 --> 00:59:48.440
>> Thank you, Chair.

00:59:48.440 --> 00:59:51.809
>> Will there be somebody from Buc-E's at the public

00:59:51.809 --> 00:59:54.440
meeting that we can direct a lot of these questions?

00:59:54.440 --> 00:59:57.659
>> I believe the applicant will be represented by their

00:59:57.659 --> 00:59:58.440
engineer.

00:59:58.440 --> 01:00:00.440
>> Can you answer questions about these?

01:00:00.440 --> 01:00:03.440
>> I believe he will be able to answer those.

01:00:03.440 --> 01:00:04.440
>> I have a clarification.

01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:07.440
You presented a green and a gray.

01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:08.440
>> Correct.

01:00:08.440 --> 01:00:10.440
>> Is it either or or in addition?

01:00:10.440 --> 01:00:13.440
>> It's a combination of the two.

01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:15.440
>> Okay, so it's both of them working together.

01:00:15.440 --> 01:00:16.440
>> Correct.

01:00:16.440 --> 01:00:17.440
>> Okay.

01:00:17.440 --> 01:00:18.440
>> Thank you.

01:00:18.440 --> 01:00:19.440
>> Commissioner Detowitz.

01:00:19.440 --> 01:00:20.440
>> One last question.

01:00:20.440 --> 01:00:24.360
What other alternative visas have we approved that have

01:00:24.360 --> 01:00:29.440
come before us or in the past?

01:00:29.440 --> 01:00:36.440
>> We have bountiful property in loop in 380 and loop 288.

01:00:36.440 --> 01:00:45.440
Magnolia Apartments on Nottingham and Mingo.

01:00:45.440 --> 01:00:51.340
Beaver Creek is a subdivision north of loop 288 and Sher

01:00:51.340 --> 01:00:52.440
bourne.

01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:57.289
It's more residential in nature, but they went through an

01:00:57.289 --> 01:00:59.440
alternative ESA plan.

01:00:59.440 --> 01:01:00.440
Unicorn Lake is also.

01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:03.440
Thank you.

01:01:03.440 --> 01:01:09.440
>> How does this compare in relative to disturbance?

01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:12.440
>> Well, each one is different.

01:01:12.440 --> 01:01:18.639
For example, Beaver Creek, the nature of the development is

01:01:18.639 --> 01:01:20.440
residential versus this.

01:01:20.440 --> 01:01:21.440
It's a little bit different.

01:01:21.440 --> 01:01:23.440
>> What Unicorn Lake then?

01:01:23.440 --> 01:01:27.440
>> The Unicorn Lake, they removed repair and buffer.

01:01:27.440 --> 01:01:30.440
They removed a lot of upland habitat.

01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:32.440
That was one of the major removals.

01:01:32.440 --> 01:01:37.440
So those were the two.

01:01:37.440 --> 01:01:42.070
>> I believe Unicorn Lake were larger, way larger in scale

01:01:42.070 --> 01:01:43.440
than this one.

01:01:43.440 --> 01:01:45.610
>> I think we've had a couple of these before us as well on

01:01:45.610 --> 01:01:46.440
city projects.

01:01:46.440 --> 01:01:50.389
I think the city had one of these on Kings Row and Loop 288

01:01:50.389 --> 01:01:52.440
on the electric substation.

01:01:52.440 --> 01:01:57.130
I think there was also one done with the -- I think it was

01:01:57.130 --> 01:02:02.239
a wastewater treatment plant over off of 1830, just west of

01:02:02.239 --> 01:02:03.440
1830.

01:02:03.440 --> 01:02:06.460
The plant was built on the east side of the creek and the

01:02:06.460 --> 01:02:08.440
sewer line was on the west side.

01:02:08.440 --> 01:02:10.440
And I think there was a crossing through there too.

01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:12.440
>> Yeah.

01:02:12.440 --> 01:02:16.409
They didn't have to go through an alternative ESA plan for

01:02:16.409 --> 01:02:24.630
the pipeline because the purpose of the pipe and the

01:02:24.630 --> 01:02:30.019
storage tank is just to alleviate a compliance issue with

01:02:30.019 --> 01:02:30.440
TCQ.

01:02:30.440 --> 01:02:34.860
And the code provides for those type of activity to be

01:02:34.860 --> 01:02:37.440
allowed by right measures.

01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:41.280
>> It still went through ESA and effectively it's the same

01:02:41.280 --> 01:02:42.440
kind of thing.

01:02:42.440 --> 01:02:44.440
>> My point is this is not unusual?

01:02:44.440 --> 01:02:45.440
>> It's not.

01:02:45.440 --> 01:02:50.440
>> No, we have a fair amount of alternative ESA plans.

01:02:50.440 --> 01:02:51.440
>> Private?

01:02:51.440 --> 01:02:54.440
>> They've been mitigated to the point of satisfaction?

01:02:54.440 --> 01:02:58.989
>> Different techniques and different approaches but all of

01:02:58.989 --> 01:03:03.440
them have been -- have provided some sort of mitigation.

01:03:03.440 --> 01:03:05.440
>> Thank you for a great presentation.

01:03:05.440 --> 01:03:07.440
>> Julie is going to wrap it up.

01:03:07.440 --> 01:03:10.440
>> Okay.

01:03:10.440 --> 01:03:11.440
>> I'll try to move quickly.

01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:15.170
Just to answer your question, Commissioner Taylor, there is

01:03:15.170 --> 01:03:18.550
a 50-foot buffer adjacent to the residential that's

01:03:18.550 --> 01:03:21.440
required that has to have landscaping in it.

01:03:21.440 --> 01:03:25.710
No building within 100 feet of the residential development

01:03:25.710 --> 01:03:27.440
can be over 40 feet.

01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:29.440
No removal of the pond.

01:03:29.440 --> 01:03:32.219
And then the 8-foot wrought iron fence next to South Ridge

01:03:32.219 --> 01:03:33.440
Estates, I believe.

01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:36.440
So those were the issues with the overlay.

01:03:36.440 --> 01:03:37.440
>> And is --

01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:38.440
>> Commissioner Taylor.

01:03:38.440 --> 01:03:41.619
>> Is the road construction in that 50-foot buffer going to

01:03:41.619 --> 01:03:42.440
be a problem?

01:03:42.440 --> 01:03:46.440
>> Well, right now they're just in the preliminary plat.

01:03:46.440 --> 01:03:49.440
It has a 50-foot access easement.

01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:52.150
So the road, you know, would need to stay within -- it

01:03:52.150 --> 01:03:54.929
would have to stay within that access easement but also

01:03:54.929 --> 01:03:56.440
stay out of that buffer.

01:03:56.440 --> 01:04:00.449
So that's something that we will look at as it moves

01:04:00.449 --> 01:04:01.440
forward.

01:04:01.440 --> 01:04:04.440
But it does need to stay outside of that 50-foot buffer.

01:04:04.440 --> 01:04:06.440
>> Good catch.

01:04:06.440 --> 01:04:07.440
>> Okay.

01:04:07.440 --> 01:04:13.440
So when we looked at the considerations for the request,

01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:16.440
first of all, as I think we've been over, they are

01:04:16.440 --> 01:04:18.440
requesting to impact approximately 13,000.

01:04:18.440 --> 01:04:21.440
Approximately 13,000 square feet of a riparian buffer.

01:04:21.440 --> 01:04:24.130
In order to do so, you have to have an alternative

01:04:24.130 --> 01:04:27.440
environmentally sensitive area plan that is approved.

01:04:27.440 --> 01:04:30.960
And the criteria for approval for that in subchapter 17

01:04:30.960 --> 01:04:34.190
states that it has to be a high quality development that

01:04:34.190 --> 01:04:38.440
meets the intent of subchapter 17, which is the subchapter

01:04:38.440 --> 01:04:42.440
that deals with environmentally sensitive areas.

01:04:42.440 --> 01:04:45.179
As Deborah, I think, went over, we'll just touch on quickly

01:04:45.179 --> 01:04:45.440
.

01:04:45.440 --> 01:04:48.159
There were -- when we talked to the applicant and what they

01:04:48.159 --> 01:04:51.269
offered as mitigation, I had sort of two components, a

01:04:51.269 --> 01:04:56.929
green component, which includes preserving an equal amount

01:04:56.929 --> 01:05:01.440
of area as to what they would be impacting.

01:05:01.440 --> 01:05:03.440
And also adding trees.

01:05:03.440 --> 01:05:07.480
We don't have an exact location of those trees because we

01:05:07.480 --> 01:05:10.789
want them to be in an area -- they may be outside of that

01:05:10.789 --> 01:05:12.440
preservation area a little bit.

01:05:12.440 --> 01:05:15.139
Because we want them to make -- we want to make sure that

01:05:15.139 --> 01:05:17.440
they meet their maximum canopy potential.

01:05:17.440 --> 01:05:21.260
So those were conversations that we had internally that we

01:05:21.260 --> 01:05:24.889
didn't want to clump them because we wanted them to reach

01:05:24.889 --> 01:05:27.440
their maximum height and canopy.

01:05:27.440 --> 01:05:30.440
The gray solution is the two storm scepters.

01:05:30.440 --> 01:05:36.199
That's using technology to mimic what a riparian buffer

01:05:36.199 --> 01:05:42.360
does naturally, and that is to filter that water within the

01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:48.260
drainage area so that those -- that sediment oils doesn't

01:05:48.260 --> 01:05:50.440
go into the pond.

01:05:50.440 --> 01:05:54.449
So just to wrap up, the preserved area, the tree plantings,

01:05:54.449 --> 01:05:57.769
and the storm scepter are intended to imitate what a

01:05:57.769 --> 01:06:00.440
natural riparian buffer would do.

01:06:00.440 --> 01:06:04.110
And that it does meet the goals of the Denton Plan 2030

01:06:04.110 --> 01:06:07.630
because it uses an integrated approach to environmental

01:06:07.630 --> 01:06:10.920
management that creates -- that is hopefully a creative

01:06:10.920 --> 01:06:15.440
solution to protect our environment

01:06:15.440 --> 01:06:20.369
and allow the riparian buffer in the pond to do what they

01:06:20.369 --> 01:06:22.440
're supposed to do.

01:06:22.440 --> 01:06:24.440
We did send out a public notification.

01:06:24.440 --> 01:06:26.440
I know you all got some letters.

01:06:26.440 --> 01:06:30.300
Some of them were in the 200-foot boundary, and I believe a

01:06:30.300 --> 01:06:34.730
couple weren't, but we have received two letters in

01:06:34.730 --> 01:06:38.440
opposition within 200 feet.

01:06:38.440 --> 01:06:41.670
So based upon the considerations and the talk we've had

01:06:41.670 --> 01:06:45.119
today, staff does recommend approval of the request with

01:06:45.119 --> 01:06:48.780
the conditions that the eight trees need to be planted to

01:06:48.780 --> 01:06:55.440
mitigate the removal of the trees in the ESA.

01:06:55.440 --> 01:06:57.440
They have to be from the large tree list.

01:06:57.440 --> 01:07:00.539
And there are provisions within the recommendation of what

01:07:00.539 --> 01:07:03.500
would happen if that tree would die and the maintenance of

01:07:03.500 --> 01:07:04.440
those trees.

01:07:04.440 --> 01:07:10.679
The storm scepters would be installed, and the water -- and

01:07:10.679 --> 01:07:14.440
those water quality facilities would be maintained.

01:07:14.440 --> 01:07:18.559
And then if there were any problems that would exist that

01:07:18.559 --> 01:07:22.440
the owner would -- the owner would maintain them.

01:07:22.440 --> 01:07:27.300
If they did not, then the city would have the right to

01:07:27.300 --> 01:07:32.440
maintain those and recover the cost from the owner.

01:07:32.440 --> 01:07:34.840
And Judy, just to add to that, that as part of this

01:07:34.840 --> 01:07:37.500
recommendation, we also want to tie the site plan, the

01:07:37.500 --> 01:07:40.440
alternative ESA site plan that is associated with this.

01:07:40.440 --> 01:07:43.440
Yes, yes, and also tie the --

01:07:43.440 --> 01:07:45.440
Those four criteria.

01:07:45.440 --> 01:07:49.789
Just the specific -- it's five criteria, but on the

01:07:49.789 --> 01:07:51.440
specific diagram.

01:07:51.440 --> 01:07:58.440
So do you all have any questions regarding --

01:07:58.440 --> 01:08:00.750
The applicant is here, so he will speak tonight, the

01:08:00.750 --> 01:08:03.730
engineer for the applicant is here, he'll speak tonight

01:08:03.730 --> 01:08:05.440
regarding the project.

01:08:05.440 --> 01:08:06.440
Great.

01:08:06.440 --> 01:08:10.440
Thank you for a great presentation, very thorough.

01:08:10.440 --> 01:08:16.439
It is 540, and we're going to take a short recess for food,

01:08:16.439 --> 01:08:19.470
and we'll come back here and start our next item, which is

01:08:19.470 --> 01:08:26.439
going to be, I believe, the update for the tree code.

01:08:26.439 --> 01:08:30.220
Welcome back, it is 545, and I will call our work session

01:08:30.220 --> 01:08:31.439
back into order.

01:08:31.439 --> 01:08:32.439
Thank you.

01:08:32.439 --> 01:08:35.430
I think our next item on our agenda is a presentation of

01:08:35.430 --> 01:08:36.439
the tree code.

01:08:36.439 --> 01:08:37.439
Yes.

01:08:37.439 --> 01:08:38.439
Okay.

01:08:38.439 --> 01:08:39.439
Thank you, Chair.

01:08:39.439 --> 01:08:40.439
Chandrin, go ahead.

01:08:40.439 --> 01:08:42.550
Good evening, commissioners, I'm Chandrin Jervis with the

01:08:42.550 --> 01:08:43.439
planning division.

01:08:43.439 --> 01:08:46.439
The next item is DCA 1601.

01:08:46.439 --> 01:08:50.390
These are proposed amendments to the city's -- to subch

01:08:50.390 --> 01:08:55.260
apter 35137, which is the city's tree preservation and

01:08:55.260 --> 01:08:57.439
landscape requirements.

01:08:57.439 --> 01:09:00.630
I'm going to ask, because there's a lot of information to

01:09:00.630 --> 01:09:03.880
cover in this presentation, if we could hold the questions

01:09:03.880 --> 01:09:08.989
to the end, and I promise I'll make sure that everything's

01:09:08.989 --> 01:09:10.439
addressed.

01:09:10.439 --> 01:09:11.439
So thank you.

01:09:11.439 --> 01:09:12.439
You know us well, we'll do our best.

01:09:12.439 --> 01:09:13.439
Yes.

01:09:13.439 --> 01:09:18.439
You can tear me apart at the end.

01:09:18.439 --> 01:09:21.560
The request is to hold a public hearing and consider making

01:09:21.560 --> 01:09:24.689
a recommendation to city council regarding the adoption of

01:09:24.689 --> 01:09:28.010
an ordinance of the city of Denton, Texas, amending subch

01:09:28.010 --> 01:09:30.439
apter 353 procedures,

01:09:30.439 --> 01:09:36.430
subchapter 3513 site design standards, and subchapter 3523

01:09:36.430 --> 01:09:40.680
definitions and terms of the Denton development code as it

01:09:40.680 --> 01:09:45.439
relates to tree preservation and landscape requirements.

01:09:45.439 --> 01:09:50.590
To begin, the existing tree code was adopted in 2004 to

01:09:50.590 --> 01:09:55.039
promote the preservation of trees and to allow for the long

01:09:55.039 --> 01:09:59.140
-term viability of trees during site design and construction

01:09:59.140 --> 01:09:59.439
.

01:09:59.439 --> 01:10:03.399
While this ordinance has been somewhat effective, more is

01:10:03.399 --> 01:10:07.270
needed to further protect and expand the tree canopy and to

01:10:07.270 --> 01:10:11.390
provide clear guidance for tree preservation and mitigation

01:10:11.390 --> 01:10:13.439
during site development.

01:10:13.439 --> 01:10:18.189
Between 2007 and 2013, there were multiple attempts to

01:10:18.189 --> 01:10:20.439
update this section of the code.

01:10:20.439 --> 01:10:25.109
However, none have been successful because of the lack of

01:10:25.109 --> 01:10:28.439
consensus on the proposed revisions.

01:10:28.439 --> 01:10:32.380
That's why the current tree code hasn't been updated since

01:10:32.380 --> 01:10:33.439
it was adopted.

01:10:33.439 --> 01:10:40.670
And part of the reason why in the fall of 2014, city

01:10:40.670 --> 01:10:47.439
council directed staff to proceed with a new update.

01:10:47.439 --> 01:10:51.329
The proposed revisions to the tree code would accomplish

01:10:51.329 --> 01:10:53.439
the following objectives.

01:10:53.439 --> 01:10:54.090
It would streamline the code to make it more user-friendly,

01:10:54.090 --> 01:10:54.829
align city standards with best management practices of the

01:10:54.829 --> 01:10:55.510
American National Standards Institute and the International

01:10:55.510 --> 01:11:06.439
Society of Boreculture.

01:11:06.439 --> 01:11:10.180
And it would also provide a more robust code that would

01:11:10.180 --> 01:11:14.699
expand and protect tree canopy and help build the city's

01:11:14.699 --> 01:11:20.140
green infrastructure network, as we've identified in our

01:11:20.140 --> 01:11:22.439
comprehensive plan.

01:11:22.439 --> 01:11:26.939
As a part of this effort, staff identified several key task

01:11:26.939 --> 01:11:28.439
ing milestones.

01:11:28.439 --> 01:11:32.289
You'll notice on the screen, we got the green light from

01:11:32.289 --> 01:11:36.439
council in the fall of 2004 to begin the update.

01:11:36.439 --> 01:11:40.100
We've completed our benchmark, our research and benchmark

01:11:40.100 --> 01:11:44.130
analysis in the fall of 2015, as well as we wrapped up the

01:11:44.130 --> 01:11:48.439
city, the work sessions with the other city departments.

01:11:48.439 --> 01:11:52.560
Although our coordination with those departments is still

01:11:52.560 --> 01:11:53.439
ongoing.

01:11:53.439 --> 01:11:58.449
We also held several external stakeholder meetings,

01:11:58.449 --> 01:12:02.180
particularly with the DEN Community Development Alliance

01:12:02.180 --> 01:12:03.439
and Keep DEN Beautiful,

01:12:03.439 --> 01:12:07.720
from which we received some very helpful feedback that

01:12:07.720 --> 01:12:11.439
informed the development of this revision.

01:12:11.439 --> 01:12:14.789
In December, last December, you remember that we did

01:12:14.789 --> 01:12:18.079
provide a briefing of the core components that we were

01:12:18.079 --> 01:12:20.439
proposing to change at that time.

01:12:20.439 --> 01:12:25.609
So with the promise that we would come back now to present

01:12:25.609 --> 01:12:27.439
the full report.

01:12:27.439 --> 01:12:31.659
At the beginning of this year, we conducted a community

01:12:31.659 --> 01:12:36.140
visual preference survey to gauge the public's interest in

01:12:36.140 --> 01:12:38.439
trees in the public spaces.

01:12:38.439 --> 01:12:43.109
We actually, we did part in-person surveys and then we

01:12:43.109 --> 01:12:47.829
launched an online survey from which in total we received

01:12:47.829 --> 01:12:51.439
about 1200 comments back.

01:12:51.439 --> 01:12:56.439
Most of them were positive.

01:12:56.439 --> 01:12:59.649
So in a few minutes, I'll start talking about the proposed

01:12:59.649 --> 01:13:03.770
revisions, but I want to talk a little bit about the

01:13:03.770 --> 01:13:06.439
benchmark analysis that we conducted.

01:13:06.439 --> 01:13:11.109
Since that was the basis for a lot of the recommendations

01:13:11.109 --> 01:13:12.439
that we made.

01:13:12.439 --> 01:13:16.439
We looked at ten cities around the state.

01:13:16.439 --> 01:13:19.970
Most of them have similar population sizes and projected

01:13:19.970 --> 01:13:21.439
growth rates to DEN.

01:13:21.439 --> 01:13:26.170
And we tried to find those codes, those cities that had

01:13:26.170 --> 01:13:30.439
codes that were well constructed and effective.

01:13:30.439 --> 01:13:34.449
And had ordinances that were something that we could

01:13:34.449 --> 01:13:36.439
replicate here at DEN.

01:13:36.439 --> 01:13:41.079
Practices that we could use and inform our tree code update

01:13:41.079 --> 01:13:41.439
.

01:13:41.439 --> 01:13:45.439
As we looked at those ordinances, we focused on five areas.

01:13:45.439 --> 01:13:49.680
Established tree designations, which are the trees that

01:13:49.680 --> 01:13:52.439
would be subject to the ordinance.

01:13:52.439 --> 01:13:56.859
Minimum preservation percentages, which are the percentage

01:13:56.859 --> 01:13:59.439
of existing trees on a site.

01:13:59.439 --> 01:14:04.439
That would be required to be preserved during development.

01:14:04.439 --> 01:14:08.119
Tree mitigation ratios, which would be applied when the

01:14:08.119 --> 01:14:11.439
minimum preservation procedures can't be met.

01:14:11.439 --> 01:14:15.449
And then the tree fund payments or the payments in lieu,

01:14:15.449 --> 01:14:18.460
which get collected if it's determined that tree mitigation

01:14:18.460 --> 01:14:23.439
by planting on a site isn't feasible or desirable.

01:14:23.439 --> 01:14:29.789
And then finally preservation incentives, which are

01:14:29.789 --> 01:14:36.270
intended to encourage the developers to do more than the

01:14:36.270 --> 01:14:39.439
minimum requirements.

01:14:39.439 --> 01:14:43.210
So what we found was Denton's tree and landscape code is

01:14:43.210 --> 01:14:47.069
one of the most complex of all the cities that we looked at

01:14:47.069 --> 01:14:47.439
.

01:14:47.439 --> 01:14:51.199
We identified seven tree designations in our code compared

01:14:51.199 --> 01:14:54.439
to an average of three for the benchmark cities.

01:14:54.439 --> 01:14:59.340
And our 39 options for preservation, which vary based on

01:14:59.340 --> 01:15:03.369
lot size, tree species, and the type of development is

01:15:03.369 --> 01:15:07.439
significantly more than what we've seen around the state.

01:15:07.439 --> 01:15:11.659
We also noticed that we're trailing in the preservation and

01:15:11.659 --> 01:15:14.439
mitigation standards themselves.

01:15:14.439 --> 01:15:18.439
We have the lowest minimum tree preservation requirements.

01:15:18.439 --> 01:15:22.260
We have no requirement or incentive to save large trees or

01:15:22.260 --> 01:15:24.439
anything over 18 inches.

01:15:24.439 --> 01:15:30.439
And we have the lowest mitigation rates for tree removal.

01:15:30.439 --> 01:15:34.590
So in your backup, I provided a summary table of the

01:15:34.590 --> 01:15:36.439
proposed changes.

01:15:36.439 --> 01:15:40.840
It's arranged by procedures, standards, and the

01:15:40.840 --> 01:15:42.439
requirements.

01:15:42.439 --> 01:15:45.939
So under the procedures and standards sections, we're

01:15:45.939 --> 01:15:50.600
proposing to align city definitions and terms with industry

01:15:50.600 --> 01:15:51.439
standards.

01:15:51.439 --> 01:15:57.439
As I mentioned, the ANSI and the ISA earlier.

01:15:57.439 --> 01:16:01.119
We want to reduce the number of tree designations from

01:16:01.119 --> 01:16:02.439
seven to three.

01:16:02.439 --> 01:16:07.390
So we would now have the heritage trees, the protected

01:16:07.390 --> 01:16:10.439
trees, and the canopy trees.

01:16:10.439 --> 01:16:14.380
So the heritage trees would be any healthy tree that's over

01:16:14.380 --> 01:16:19.439
18 inches and designated as heritage by the urban forester.

01:16:19.439 --> 01:16:23.159
The protected tree would be any healthy tree that's over 18

01:16:23.159 --> 01:16:25.439
inches that's not a heritage tree.

01:16:25.439 --> 01:16:30.939
And then the canopy tree would be any healthy tree that's

01:16:30.939 --> 01:16:33.439
under 18 inches.

01:16:33.439 --> 01:16:37.920
We would also establish an exempt trees list, and these

01:16:37.920 --> 01:16:41.439
trees could be removed without penalty.

01:16:41.439 --> 01:16:43.840
And we would reduce the number of exempt properties and

01:16:43.840 --> 01:16:44.439
projects.

01:16:44.439 --> 01:16:48.329
Also in your backup is a table that compares the current

01:16:48.329 --> 01:16:52.439
exemptions in the tree code with what we're proposing.

01:16:52.439 --> 01:16:56.569
The most significant changes are what we're requiring of

01:16:56.569 --> 01:17:02.439
the service providers, the city's utility providers.

01:17:02.439 --> 01:17:06.149
So you'll notice that that list has almost been cut in half

01:17:06.149 --> 01:17:06.439
.

01:17:12.439 --> 01:17:13.840
And in the requirement section, we are proposing to require

01:17:13.840 --> 01:17:20.439
tree removal permits for all sites, including residential.

01:17:20.439 --> 01:17:23.939
However, the single family and the two family residential

01:17:23.939 --> 01:17:27.560
sites or owners would only need to come in for trees if

01:17:27.560 --> 01:17:30.439
they want to remove trees that are over five inches.

01:17:30.439 --> 01:17:33.939
And that permit would be a complimentary permit from the

01:17:33.939 --> 01:17:37.189
city, but it would give us an opportunity to consult with

01:17:37.189 --> 01:17:40.779
them and maybe identify other options to accomplish their

01:17:40.779 --> 01:17:41.439
goals.

01:17:44.439 --> 01:17:47.079
We also want to base the minimum preservation on existing

01:17:47.079 --> 01:17:52.970
tree canopy instead of the diameter at breast height inches

01:17:52.970 --> 01:17:53.439
.

01:17:53.439 --> 01:17:57.439
So that's an improvement over the existing code.

01:17:57.439 --> 01:18:01.340
And we want to establish a flat mitigation ratio for tree

01:18:01.340 --> 01:18:06.180
removal of a one to four ratio instead of right now I think

01:18:06.180 --> 01:18:12.439
we range from zero to about 1.25.

01:18:12.439 --> 01:18:14.439
Got it.

01:18:14.439 --> 01:18:18.199
And then finally, base the tree farm payment on the fair

01:18:18.199 --> 01:18:22.119
market value of materials and labor at the time of planting

01:18:22.119 --> 01:18:22.439
.

01:18:22.439 --> 01:18:26.270
And this would also include the cost of irrigation and

01:18:26.270 --> 01:18:30.359
maintenance to get the tree established for, I guess, on

01:18:30.359 --> 01:18:33.439
average, a time period of about three years.

01:18:38.439 --> 01:18:39.829
Under preservation incentives, we're proposing to allow

01:18:39.829 --> 01:18:46.439
tree canopy to count towards landscape canopy requirements.

01:18:46.439 --> 01:18:49.439
So a tree is a tree on the site.

01:18:49.439 --> 01:18:52.970
And we're offering a one to two credit for preserving

01:18:52.970 --> 01:18:56.649
heritage trees that would count towards the landscape

01:18:56.649 --> 01:18:58.439
canopy requirements.

01:18:58.439 --> 01:19:04.520
And then the last bullet is actually a current incentive in

01:19:04.520 --> 01:19:09.439
the existing code to allow for modification in parking lot

01:19:09.439 --> 01:19:12.850
and subdivision designs when trees are preserved over the

01:19:12.850 --> 01:19:14.439
minimum required.

01:19:18.439 --> 01:19:23.850
So we measured our proposal for the tree code update

01:19:23.850 --> 01:19:28.439
against the city's guidance documents.

01:19:28.439 --> 01:19:32.649
And as far as the comprehensive plan is concerned, the

01:19:32.649 --> 01:19:35.750
proposed revisions support the following goals and

01:19:35.750 --> 01:19:38.439
objectives of the DIN Plan 2030.

01:19:38.439 --> 01:19:41.800
And I won't read through those, but they're on the screen

01:19:41.800 --> 01:19:42.439
for you.

01:19:42.439 --> 01:19:46.449
The first goal is from the parks conservation and

01:19:46.449 --> 01:19:48.439
environmental goal.

01:19:48.439 --> 01:19:53.100
And then under that is an action item that aligns with that

01:19:53.100 --> 01:19:53.439
.

01:19:56.439 --> 01:19:59.560
And then when we looked at the DIN strategic plan, we

01:19:59.560 --> 01:20:03.460
identified that the proposed revisions most closely align

01:20:03.460 --> 01:20:07.979
with the key focus area of sustainable and environmental

01:20:07.979 --> 01:20:08.439
stewardship.

01:20:08.439 --> 01:20:12.199
And then the goal to manage land use and preserve open and

01:20:12.199 --> 01:20:13.439
natural space.

01:20:13.439 --> 01:20:18.319
So with all of those considerations, staff is recommending

01:20:18.319 --> 01:20:23.090
approval of this update and I will open it up for questions

01:20:23.090 --> 01:20:23.439
.

01:20:26.439 --> 01:20:27.439
Commissioner Bruegel.

01:20:27.439 --> 01:20:28.439
Chair.

01:20:28.439 --> 01:20:31.439
I've got a couple of questions on the exemptions list.

01:20:31.439 --> 01:20:32.439
Okay.

01:20:34.439 --> 01:20:38.439
One noted exemption was for agriculture uses.

01:20:38.439 --> 01:20:41.909
My question with that is specific to a case that we saw

01:20:41.909 --> 01:20:45.439
recently in the corner of Windsor and Hinkle.

01:20:45.439 --> 01:20:48.720
There's like a big data retirement community that we had

01:20:48.720 --> 01:20:50.439
approved a few months ago.

01:20:50.439 --> 01:20:54.439
What, 15, 20 years ago, that was a forest.

01:20:54.439 --> 01:20:57.340
And I had asked, Julie may remember this because she

01:20:57.340 --> 01:21:00.609
brought back all these pictures of this dwindling forest to

01:21:00.609 --> 01:21:03.439
the point where it's now just, it's a field.

01:21:03.439 --> 01:21:08.649
And I recall maybe four or five years ago, there were some

01:21:08.649 --> 01:21:12.439
post oaks on that property that were all removed.

01:21:12.439 --> 01:21:15.199
And as far as city staff could tell when I was requesting

01:21:15.199 --> 01:21:17.789
information about that particular case, there were no

01:21:17.789 --> 01:21:18.439
penalties about that.

01:21:18.439 --> 01:21:22.100
Because what they did was for the next couple of years, use

01:21:22.100 --> 01:21:24.439
that field for agricultural uses.

01:21:24.439 --> 01:21:25.439
Right.

01:21:25.439 --> 01:21:27.439
But they just ended up flipping it.

01:21:27.439 --> 01:21:29.439
And now there's going to be a development there.

01:21:29.439 --> 01:21:32.569
And there was no penalty whatsoever for removing the

01:21:32.569 --> 01:21:35.439
hundreds of trees over the last decade or so.

01:21:35.439 --> 01:21:36.439
Right.

01:21:36.439 --> 01:21:38.279
And especially those last few post oaks that were remaining

01:21:38.279 --> 01:21:38.439
.

01:21:38.439 --> 01:21:43.439
So can you talk to me more about these agriculture uses?

01:21:43.439 --> 01:21:46.260
Like what is the length of time that that property must be

01:21:46.260 --> 01:21:49.069
used for agriculture before it can be turned into a gated

01:21:49.069 --> 01:21:50.439
retirement community?

01:21:50.439 --> 01:21:52.439
Or even type of development?

01:21:52.439 --> 01:21:54.439
Yeah, can we just talk a little bit more about that?

01:21:54.439 --> 01:21:56.279
And then I've got another question about the exemptions too

01:21:56.279 --> 01:21:56.439
.

01:21:56.439 --> 01:22:01.340
Okay. The ag use exemption is basically a state requirement

01:22:01.340 --> 01:22:01.439
.

01:22:01.439 --> 01:22:05.670
And we don't really have a lot of leverage when it comes to

01:22:05.670 --> 01:22:07.439
exempting that use.

01:22:07.439 --> 01:22:13.439
The exemption, I believe, is in effect for five years.

01:22:13.439 --> 01:22:16.520
Well, it has to be ag for five years to qualify for the

01:22:16.520 --> 01:22:17.439
exemption.

01:22:17.439 --> 01:22:19.439
To qualify for the exemption.

01:22:19.439 --> 01:22:22.600
So once they've designated as agricultural use, it needs to

01:22:22.600 --> 01:22:24.439
be in that state for five years.

01:22:24.439 --> 01:22:27.789
And that's a state law? So anyone could really cut down a

01:22:27.789 --> 01:22:29.609
bunch of trees and then just turn it into a corn field for

01:22:29.609 --> 01:22:31.439
a couple of years and then anyone can do that.

01:22:31.439 --> 01:22:32.439
And that's at the state level.

01:22:32.439 --> 01:22:33.439
Yes.

01:22:33.439 --> 01:22:34.439
Well, that stinks. Okay.

01:22:34.439 --> 01:22:39.439
My next question is about the residential permits.

01:22:39.439 --> 01:22:44.460
So am I to understand that if someone wanted to like build

01:22:44.460 --> 01:22:49.970
a back porch or expand a kitchen window or add on to their

01:22:49.970 --> 01:22:51.439
driveway or something like that,

01:22:51.439 --> 01:22:53.770
and that would require the removal of a healthy tree, that

01:22:53.770 --> 01:22:55.880
they would then need to go to the city to get a permit for

01:22:55.880 --> 01:22:56.439
that?

01:22:56.439 --> 01:22:59.439
Yes. And actually that would already be under review

01:22:59.439 --> 01:23:02.439
because our urban forester reviews those other permits.

01:23:02.439 --> 01:23:05.439
So it would be already a consideration.

01:23:05.439 --> 01:23:09.359
Okay. And what about a tree that's not dead yet, but it's

01:23:09.359 --> 01:23:12.289
dying? It might be a risk to my property or to people

01:23:12.289 --> 01:23:13.439
walking on the street.

01:23:13.439 --> 01:23:15.439
Would I need a permit to remove the tree then?

01:23:15.439 --> 01:23:18.439
If it's over five acres, then yes.

01:23:18.439 --> 01:23:20.439
Okay. And what is the cost of that?

01:23:20.439 --> 01:23:23.439
That would be a complimentary permit. So no cost.

01:23:23.439 --> 01:23:26.439
Okay. But it's just a way for the city to be able to track

01:23:26.439 --> 01:23:27.439
essentially what's going on.

01:23:27.439 --> 01:23:28.439
Yes.

01:23:28.439 --> 01:23:29.439
All right. Thanks.

01:23:29.439 --> 01:23:32.560
So that when we get a call, like this tree has come down or

01:23:32.560 --> 01:23:35.060
a tree is coming down, what's going on, we would already

01:23:35.060 --> 01:23:37.979
know through our track kit system that there was a

01:23:37.979 --> 01:23:40.439
complimentary permit issued for this reason.

01:23:40.439 --> 01:23:43.479
And the property owner, so the property owner would be

01:23:43.479 --> 01:23:46.699
responsible for getting that or the tree removal company

01:23:46.699 --> 01:23:49.880
that's taking care of it, or they could do it on the behalf

01:23:49.880 --> 01:23:51.439
of the property owner.

01:23:51.439 --> 01:23:53.439
Okay. Thank you.

01:23:53.439 --> 01:23:54.439
Okay.

01:23:54.439 --> 01:23:55.439
Commissioner Beck.

01:23:55.439 --> 01:24:22.439
[inaudible]

01:24:22.439 --> 01:24:27.220
Okay. And those are actually speaking to two separate

01:24:27.220 --> 01:24:29.439
incentives that we are proposing to offer in the code.

01:24:29.439 --> 01:24:32.479
And I'm actually going to ask Nona Elaine Muncie to come up

01:24:32.479 --> 01:24:34.439
and explain the landscape part.

01:24:34.439 --> 01:24:35.439
Okay.

01:24:35.439 --> 01:24:36.439
She's the resident expert.

01:24:36.439 --> 01:24:41.439
Okay.

01:24:41.439 --> 01:24:45.319
I'm Nona Elaine Muncie. The landscape code is in addition

01:24:45.319 --> 01:24:46.439
to the tree code.

01:24:46.439 --> 01:24:49.909
The tree code has to be met first and that's in inches. The

01:24:49.909 --> 01:24:52.439
landscape code is in canopy coverage.

01:24:52.439 --> 01:24:55.840
We are proposing to have a total tree canopy where you

01:24:55.840 --> 01:24:59.439
preserve the number of trees that you're required.

01:24:59.439 --> 01:25:03.140
Any additional trees may go toward what's required by the

01:25:03.140 --> 01:25:04.439
landscape code.

01:25:04.439 --> 01:25:07.399
Sometimes there's not enough room to plant trees back on

01:25:07.399 --> 01:25:09.439
site and that's where we're going.

01:25:09.439 --> 01:25:15.439
Okay.

01:25:15.439 --> 01:25:19.100
And did she have any questions about the parking lot

01:25:19.100 --> 01:25:20.439
modification?

01:25:20.439 --> 01:25:23.439
That's basically, it's not to reduce the number of spaces,

01:25:23.439 --> 01:25:28.409
but rather to allow the design, the layout of the park and

01:25:28.409 --> 01:25:30.439
to vary to preserve trees.

01:25:30.439 --> 01:25:31.439
To preserve trees.

01:25:31.439 --> 01:25:32.439
Yes.

01:25:32.439 --> 01:25:33.439
Okay.

01:25:33.439 --> 01:25:36.439
Thank you.

01:25:36.439 --> 01:25:37.439
Commissioner Bruegel.

01:25:37.439 --> 01:25:39.439
Thank you.

01:25:39.439 --> 01:25:46.210
So a question for staff is are we, we're looking at either

01:25:46.210 --> 01:25:52.439
approving or rejecting these proposed changes.

01:25:52.439 --> 01:25:55.210
Are we going to get a chance to see the final ordinance

01:25:55.210 --> 01:25:57.439
before we pass that on to city council?

01:25:57.439 --> 01:25:58.439
What happens next?

01:25:58.439 --> 01:26:00.850
Because I would like to see how it all lays out and

01:26:00.850 --> 01:26:02.439
language and definitions.

01:26:02.439 --> 01:26:04.479
I'm kind of channeling Commissioner Bentley here like I don

01:26:04.479 --> 01:26:06.449
't want to send something on to city council without being

01:26:06.449 --> 01:26:07.439
able to read it first.

01:26:07.439 --> 01:26:10.829
So where, so what happens at this point once we vote on

01:26:10.829 --> 01:26:11.439
this?

01:26:11.439 --> 01:26:13.439
Actually the proposed language is in the backup.

01:26:13.439 --> 01:26:14.439
It's in your backup.

01:26:14.439 --> 01:26:17.439
And that's what we'll get adopted by council.

01:26:17.439 --> 01:26:22.260
The ordinance itself is more of the legal terms that we

01:26:22.260 --> 01:26:25.439
need to proceed the actual text.

01:26:25.439 --> 01:26:27.439
I'm so sorry I missed that.

01:26:27.439 --> 01:26:28.439
Yes, I see it.

01:26:28.439 --> 01:26:29.439
My apologies.

01:26:29.439 --> 01:26:30.439
No problem.

01:26:30.439 --> 01:26:31.439
Okay, thank you.

01:26:31.439 --> 01:26:32.439
I look like a fool.

01:26:32.439 --> 01:26:34.439
All right.

01:26:34.439 --> 01:26:35.439
Commissioner Taylor.

01:26:35.439 --> 01:26:36.439
Thank you, Chair.

01:26:36.439 --> 01:26:39.350
I also had trouble finding the backup because it's labeled

01:26:39.350 --> 01:26:42.600
proposed amendments, not revised ordinance or something

01:26:42.600 --> 01:26:43.439
like that.

01:26:43.439 --> 01:26:47.439
So I'm actually just reading through it now.

01:26:47.439 --> 01:26:52.439
I had some questions on some mitigation.

01:26:52.439 --> 01:26:56.359
Now all fees will be set in a criteria manual so it can be

01:26:56.359 --> 01:26:59.439
more readily updated as costs shift.

01:26:59.439 --> 01:27:00.439
Is that?

01:27:00.439 --> 01:27:02.439
Oh, do you mean the tree fund payment?

01:27:02.439 --> 01:27:05.439
Yeah, under the mitigation section.

01:27:05.439 --> 01:27:06.439
Okay.

01:27:06.439 --> 01:27:08.439
Is that correct?

01:27:08.439 --> 01:27:10.439
I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?

01:27:10.439 --> 01:27:15.439
Yeah, so mitigation costs will now be in a criteria manual?

01:27:15.439 --> 01:27:19.270
No, those costs get established by city council by the

01:27:19.270 --> 01:27:23.439
whole, the review fee ordinance that they would act on.

01:27:23.439 --> 01:27:27.439
Is that an annual process or every fund?

01:27:27.439 --> 01:27:32.439
Well, we have a fee schedule that's adopted by ordinance.

01:27:32.439 --> 01:27:35.439
And now and again, we do have to amend it.

01:27:35.439 --> 01:27:38.159
It's typical to evaluate it once a year and make sure that

01:27:38.159 --> 01:27:42.800
your fees are consistent with other communities when you

01:27:42.800 --> 01:27:43.439
benchmark.

01:27:43.439 --> 01:27:46.399
And if there's some errors or there's some other fees that

01:27:46.399 --> 01:27:49.439
need to be added, that's when we use that opportunity.

01:27:49.439 --> 01:27:54.119
And I noticed there, so you can do on-site mitigation or on

01:27:54.119 --> 01:27:58.439
-site credit, whatever that's called if it's not mitigation.

01:27:58.439 --> 01:28:00.439
Can you do off-site mitigation?

01:28:00.439 --> 01:28:03.439
Can you say, I'm doing a 40-acre development over here.

01:28:03.439 --> 01:28:06.560
I've got 10 acres on the other side of town that I will

01:28:06.560 --> 01:28:09.880
preserve, you know, put an easement on or something like

01:28:09.880 --> 01:28:10.439
that.

01:28:10.439 --> 01:28:12.760
I don't believe that that's currently included in the

01:28:12.760 --> 01:28:13.439
ordinance.

01:28:13.439 --> 01:28:18.250
The only off-site mitigation that is allowed for is through

01:28:18.250 --> 01:28:22.590
the tree fund at this point to make the contributions to

01:28:22.590 --> 01:28:25.439
the tree fund through the payments in lieu.

01:28:25.439 --> 01:28:28.439
If I'm not correct, okay.

01:28:28.439 --> 01:28:31.319
>> And the intent of that was to make sure that the canopy

01:28:31.319 --> 01:28:35.460
cover is enhanced, retained, maintained for whatever reason

01:28:35.460 --> 01:28:36.439
specific to the site so

01:28:36.439 --> 01:28:40.220
that you had a domino effect as it comes to enhancing that

01:28:40.220 --> 01:28:43.439
canopy cover and making sure that if you had a corridor,

01:28:43.439 --> 01:28:43.439
for instance,

01:28:43.439 --> 01:28:46.670
that was being revitalized that you had that opportunity

01:28:46.670 --> 01:28:48.439
there, just as an example.

01:28:48.439 --> 01:28:51.939
The off-site requirement then can become, sometimes you can

01:28:51.939 --> 01:28:55.439
't do it through deed restriction or what have you anyway.

01:28:55.439 --> 01:28:59.439
So it would compromise other developability potentially.

01:28:59.439 --> 01:29:05.439
>> Yeah, so the last revision was 2007, is that correct?

01:29:05.439 --> 01:29:06.439
>> 2004.

01:29:06.439 --> 01:29:07.439
>> 2004.

01:29:07.439 --> 01:29:11.449
So in the 2004 revisions, I believe there was a provision

01:29:11.449 --> 01:29:14.439
where you could off-site.

01:29:14.439 --> 01:29:18.449
And there were some ideas that never really got rolling,

01:29:18.449 --> 01:29:23.100
but they were to basically take areas that are heavily wood

01:29:23.100 --> 01:29:23.439
ed,

01:29:23.439 --> 01:29:26.439
but not necessarily prime real estate development projects.

01:29:26.439 --> 01:29:30.720
But the owner could want to preserve it and allocate 100

01:29:30.720 --> 01:29:33.569
acres and then basically sell it piece by piece to

01:29:33.569 --> 01:29:34.439
developers.

01:29:34.439 --> 01:29:37.840
And so whenever they've mitigated their 100 acres, there's

01:29:37.840 --> 01:29:40.439
100 acres that are permanently preserved.

01:29:40.439 --> 01:29:43.619
And it would perhaps be in a different neighborhood, but

01:29:43.619 --> 01:29:46.310
tree fund monies will also be spent in a different

01:29:46.310 --> 01:29:47.439
neighborhood.

01:29:47.439 --> 01:29:48.439
>> Yes.

01:29:48.439 --> 01:29:53.439
I thought that was a really novel and a good method.

01:29:53.439 --> 01:29:56.869
Instead of replanting a bunch of two inch trees that in 50

01:29:56.869 --> 01:29:58.439
years will create shade,

01:29:58.439 --> 01:30:04.310
we could preserve existing timber, existing canopy cover

01:30:04.310 --> 01:30:07.439
that exists inside the city.

01:30:07.439 --> 01:30:09.439
>> Okay.

01:30:09.439 --> 01:30:10.439
>> And we have one of two options.

01:30:10.439 --> 01:30:13.050
One is, and Commissioner Bruegel, you had asked, do we have

01:30:13.050 --> 01:30:14.439
to approve this or deny this?

01:30:14.439 --> 01:30:16.439
You have the option to postpone the item.

01:30:16.439 --> 01:30:19.449
You have the option to approve it with specific conditions

01:30:19.449 --> 01:30:20.439
or parameters.

01:30:20.439 --> 01:30:22.550
So you have those opportunities available to yourselves if

01:30:22.550 --> 01:30:25.439
you want to add some conditions or considerations to what's

01:30:25.439 --> 01:30:25.439
before you

01:30:25.439 --> 01:30:34.439
and you'd like for it to go to council, we can do that too.

01:30:34.439 --> 01:30:36.439
>> I have a couple questions.

01:30:36.439 --> 01:30:39.439
On the tree fund, I know there's been a lot paid in.

01:30:39.439 --> 01:30:43.449
Do we have any information on how much money that has been

01:30:43.449 --> 01:30:46.439
spent that's come out of the tree fund?

01:30:46.439 --> 01:30:58.439
>> I'm going to ask Haley to address that.

01:30:58.439 --> 01:31:00.439
>> Okay, I'm going just off of memory here.

01:31:00.439 --> 01:31:04.640
But for the current fiscal year, if I'm not mistaken, for

01:31:04.640 --> 01:31:07.439
tree planting specifically through parks,

01:31:07.439 --> 01:31:13.060
we have allocated just over $500,000 for new plantings in

01:31:13.060 --> 01:31:14.439
public areas.

01:31:14.439 --> 01:31:18.670
There's also been an allocation that was approved through K

01:31:18.670 --> 01:31:21.439
DB for the Denton Tree Initiatives.

01:31:21.439 --> 01:31:26.109
I can't remember the exact dollar figures on those programs

01:31:26.109 --> 01:31:26.439
.

01:31:26.439 --> 01:31:30.970
But they included the tree rebate program, the trees mean

01:31:30.970 --> 01:31:34.439
business, which is trees for existing businesses

01:31:34.439 --> 01:31:38.100
where they actually will go out and plant the tree for the

01:31:38.100 --> 01:31:39.439
business owner.

01:31:39.439 --> 01:31:42.699
They have to submit a business proposal on how they're

01:31:42.699 --> 01:31:44.439
going to maintain the trees.

01:31:44.439 --> 01:31:47.569
And then there's starting this fall, there'll be a

01:31:47.569 --> 01:31:49.439
neighborhood tree giveaway,

01:31:49.439 --> 01:31:53.449
which the idea is to actually have the neighborhood

01:31:53.449 --> 01:31:57.439
organize their tree giveaway for their residents.

01:31:57.439 --> 01:32:00.680
And the trees will be delivered on site and they can

01:32:00.680 --> 01:32:04.520
distribute the trees to those individuals that have space

01:32:04.520 --> 01:32:06.439
for planting new trees.

01:32:06.439 --> 01:32:08.439
>> Do you remember how much is in the tree fund?

01:32:08.439 --> 01:32:12.130
How much has been paid in versus what we've spent out of it

01:32:12.130 --> 01:32:12.439
?

01:32:12.439 --> 01:32:15.439
Off the top of your head, it's great.

01:32:15.439 --> 01:32:20.039
>> Paid into the tree fund, I want to say it probably has

01:32:20.039 --> 01:32:23.439
to be close to $3 million right now.

01:32:23.439 --> 01:32:31.560
Paid out, I would say probably around $150,000, $200,000,

01:32:31.560 --> 01:32:34.439
just rough guessing without looking at the numbers.

01:32:34.439 --> 01:32:35.439
>> Okay.

01:32:35.439 --> 01:32:38.439
A lot's gone in and not a lot so far.

01:32:38.439 --> 01:32:39.439
>> Right, yeah.

01:32:39.439 --> 01:32:43.819
We just started, just received approval to start utilizing

01:32:43.819 --> 01:32:45.439
that fund last spring.

01:32:45.439 --> 01:32:49.439
And so, you know, that was kind of midway the year.

01:32:49.439 --> 01:32:53.510
And so the idea is now that we'll have regular allocations

01:32:53.510 --> 01:32:58.739
of fundings to go towards tree plantings from now on into

01:32:58.739 --> 01:33:01.439
the future as long as there's funding available.

01:33:01.439 --> 01:33:02.439
>> Okay.

01:33:02.439 --> 01:33:03.439
Second question.

01:33:03.439 --> 01:33:07.810
In the past, the tree code, I think single individual lots,

01:33:07.810 --> 01:33:11.439
individual property owners' lots were exempt.

01:33:11.439 --> 01:33:15.670
Has there been an issue in some kind of compliance or a lot

01:33:15.670 --> 01:33:19.439
of trees being cut down as to now we want to include

01:33:19.439 --> 01:33:22.909
individual property owners that you can't go cut down a

01:33:22.909 --> 01:33:25.439
tree on your own property without getting a permit?

01:33:25.439 --> 01:33:28.569
>> Well, even for single family lots, whenever I review

01:33:28.569 --> 01:33:31.909
those plans, you know, and most people that are building

01:33:31.909 --> 01:33:35.390
the house, they want to save as many of the trees on site

01:33:35.390 --> 01:33:36.439
as they can.

01:33:36.439 --> 01:33:41.479
The main thing is for houses that are already built where

01:33:41.479 --> 01:33:44.970
someone wants to remove trees, having that permit

01:33:44.970 --> 01:33:47.069
requirement, as Sandra mentioned earlier, gives me the

01:33:47.069 --> 01:33:49.920
opportunity to talk to them and find out what's really the

01:33:49.920 --> 01:33:50.439
issue.

01:33:50.439 --> 01:33:53.699
Because sometimes the issue that they're having can be

01:33:53.699 --> 01:33:57.250
remedied a lot less expensive than actually having someone

01:33:57.250 --> 01:33:58.439
cut down a tree.

01:33:58.439 --> 01:34:01.789
Depending on the size of the tree, you can easily spend a

01:34:01.789 --> 01:34:05.100
couple thousand dollars depending on the location and

01:34:05.100 --> 01:34:08.439
obstacles that the contractor has to work around.

01:34:08.439 --> 01:34:11.390
In some cases, the tree really just needs a good pruning,

01:34:11.390 --> 01:34:14.439
and it'll really solve the issues that they're having.

01:34:14.439 --> 01:34:17.470
So it's really that opportunity for me to interact with

01:34:17.470 --> 01:34:20.350
them to find out what the issue is and maybe find them a

01:34:20.350 --> 01:34:22.439
more cost-effective solution.

01:34:22.439 --> 01:34:25.659
>> Okay, but they would, under this, they would have to

01:34:25.659 --> 01:34:28.810
come get a permit, and if they decided they do want to cut

01:34:28.810 --> 01:34:32.010
down some trees for whatever reason it is, then they're

01:34:32.010 --> 01:34:34.250
going to be subject to this as far as either having to

01:34:34.250 --> 01:34:36.439
mitigate those or pay into the tree fund.

01:34:36.439 --> 01:34:37.439
>> No.

01:34:37.439 --> 01:34:38.439
>> They're exempt from mitigation.

01:34:38.439 --> 01:34:39.439
>> Right.

01:34:39.439 --> 01:34:40.439
>> And paying into the tree.

01:34:40.439 --> 01:34:43.010
We're using this as a value-add service so that our

01:34:43.010 --> 01:34:45.930
community gets to know our urban foresters, so that our

01:34:45.930 --> 01:34:48.569
community gets to understand the ordinances that are in

01:34:48.569 --> 01:34:50.439
place and to involve our community.

01:34:50.439 --> 01:34:53.970
And it also becomes a bit of a quantitative research tool

01:34:53.970 --> 01:34:57.420
for us to know what's going on with our canopy cover as we

01:34:57.420 --> 01:35:01.439
get more built out, we'll have an opportunity to see that.

01:35:01.439 --> 01:35:04.770
So oftentimes, Haywood gets a call, you know, I have a tree

01:35:04.770 --> 01:35:07.439
and I want to cut it down, or my tree is dead.

01:35:07.439 --> 01:35:10.470
And Haywood has the opportunity to visit with them and

01:35:10.470 --> 01:35:13.689
explain actually what, if the tree is indeed diseased or

01:35:13.689 --> 01:35:15.439
the tree is a safety issue.

01:35:15.439 --> 01:35:17.510
We had that just a couple of weeks ago where there was a

01:35:17.510 --> 01:35:19.670
hazardous tree and we knew we had to get it down, but the

01:35:19.670 --> 01:35:22.439
homeowners, well, I really like this shade.

01:35:22.439 --> 01:35:25.350
But Haywood had to explain, well, look at the consequences,

01:35:25.350 --> 01:35:26.439
what could happen.

01:35:26.439 --> 01:35:29.020
So we want to use this as a value-add, but there is no

01:35:29.020 --> 01:35:31.439
mitigation or penalty associated with that.

01:35:31.439 --> 01:35:33.439
>> And so all they have to do then is fill out a permit and

01:35:33.439 --> 01:35:35.439
they can take it down and they don't have to pay it.

01:35:35.439 --> 01:35:37.439
>> And it's a complimentary permit, yes.

01:35:37.439 --> 01:35:40.869
>> Even under the current code, the way the language states

01:35:40.869 --> 01:35:44.149
in this is not really pinned down well, but a homeowner is

01:35:44.149 --> 01:35:47.439
allowed to remove up to five trees without a permit.

01:35:47.439 --> 01:35:51.000
So if they're removing 10 trees or 12 trees, they have to

01:35:51.000 --> 01:35:53.909
come in for a permit and it's at a cost under the current

01:35:53.909 --> 01:35:54.439
code.

01:35:54.439 --> 01:35:58.279
So it's really just to have that added point of contact to

01:35:58.279 --> 01:36:00.439
see what's really going on.

01:36:00.439 --> 01:36:01.439
>> Great, thank you.

01:36:01.439 --> 01:36:03.439
>> Yeah.

01:36:03.439 --> 01:36:04.439
>> Commissioner Haps.

01:36:04.439 --> 01:36:05.439
>> Yeah.

01:36:05.439 --> 01:36:06.439
>> Commissioner Rossell.

01:36:06.439 --> 01:36:09.630
>> This might be a question for Haywood, but just so I

01:36:09.630 --> 01:36:12.930
understand the tree fund, there's new trees planted on

01:36:12.930 --> 01:36:14.439
Southlake's Rain Trail.

01:36:14.439 --> 01:36:18.350
Is that what the tree fund's used for, like to go plant

01:36:18.350 --> 01:36:20.439
trees at parks and stuff?

01:36:20.439 --> 01:36:24.760
>> Yes, currently the tree code can be used to plant trees

01:36:24.760 --> 01:36:27.439
on public and private property.

01:36:27.439 --> 01:36:29.840
The amendment to allow on private property was just done

01:36:29.840 --> 01:36:32.689
last year and that's how we're able to do the various

01:36:32.689 --> 01:36:35.439
programs that we're funding through KDB.

01:36:35.439 --> 01:36:38.779
But those in Southlake's parks are definitely funded

01:36:38.779 --> 01:36:40.439
through the tree fund.

01:36:40.439 --> 01:36:44.720
>> Okay. >> So parks, any city-owned properties, any public

01:36:44.720 --> 01:36:45.439
properties basically.

01:36:45.439 --> 01:36:46.439
>> Gotcha, thank you.

01:36:46.439 --> 01:36:48.439
>> Commissioner Hapsbeth.

01:36:48.439 --> 01:36:49.439
>> Thank you, Chair.

01:36:49.439 --> 01:36:53.840
So I'm curious, those funds are those, the tree in and of

01:36:53.840 --> 01:36:58.180
itself or trees and the maintenance to put it in, the water

01:36:58.180 --> 01:36:58.439
?

01:36:58.439 --> 01:37:02.550
Is it everything around putting the tree in, maintaining

01:37:02.550 --> 01:37:03.439
the tree?

01:37:03.439 --> 01:37:04.439
>> Yes.

01:37:04.439 --> 01:37:05.439
>> Okay, got it.

01:37:05.439 --> 01:37:09.439
Thank you.

01:37:09.439 --> 01:37:11.439
>> Commissioner Tyler.

01:37:11.439 --> 01:37:14.340
>> So a couple of follow up questions regarding the single

01:37:14.340 --> 01:37:15.439
family dwelling.

01:37:15.439 --> 01:37:17.439
>> Okay.

01:37:17.439 --> 01:37:20.439
>> I was just reading that clause and I lost it.

01:37:20.439 --> 01:37:22.680
Is it possible to, it doesn't seem to have any kind of acre

01:37:22.680 --> 01:37:24.439
age requirement or anything like that.

01:37:24.439 --> 01:37:28.350
So if I own 500 acres and I have a house on it, I can come

01:37:28.350 --> 01:37:33.439
apply for a permit to remove trees and that's free.

01:37:33.439 --> 01:37:34.439
>> Yes.

01:37:34.439 --> 01:37:38.449
>> And then I can remove all the trees I need to remove and

01:37:38.449 --> 01:37:41.439
then I can do whatever I want with that land afterward.

01:37:41.439 --> 01:37:42.439
Is that correct?

01:37:42.439 --> 01:37:43.439
>> Yes.

01:37:43.439 --> 01:37:47.159
>> And so this also goes back to the agricultural exemption

01:37:47.159 --> 01:37:47.439
.

01:37:47.439 --> 01:37:52.460
The case at Windsor where those post oaks were removed,

01:37:52.460 --> 01:37:56.439
they had to keep the land in agriculture for two years or

01:37:56.439 --> 01:38:00.439
they would have to pay tree removal fees.

01:38:00.439 --> 01:38:04.489
I don't see any kind of clauses about a period of time or a

01:38:04.489 --> 01:38:07.029
number of acres or anything like that in this ordinance at

01:38:07.029 --> 01:38:07.439
all.

01:38:07.439 --> 01:38:10.340
So it seems like this is my hay field, I'm going to cut

01:38:10.340 --> 01:38:11.439
down the trees.

01:38:11.439 --> 01:38:14.979
October comes, now I'm ready to build houses because I cut

01:38:14.979 --> 01:38:16.439
my hay in September.

01:38:16.439 --> 01:38:23.140
So I feel like we know that whatever the limits of the

01:38:23.140 --> 01:38:27.439
words of the law are, those cases are going to occur.

01:38:27.439 --> 01:38:31.380
Because that's what's exactly happened, within a few months

01:38:31.380 --> 01:38:35.439
of that two year clock, the plot came in.

01:38:35.439 --> 01:38:38.439
And we see that all the time.

01:38:38.439 --> 01:38:42.689
So I think I'm concerned about the little edges and the

01:38:42.689 --> 01:38:46.439
little details of any lot with a single family home or

01:38:46.439 --> 01:38:49.439
single or two family, I think is how it's worded.

01:38:49.439 --> 01:38:52.439
And then no acreage requirements.

01:38:52.439 --> 01:38:57.510
One of the ideas that we've been going back and forth on is

01:38:57.510 --> 01:39:03.420
possibly instituting a rollback feature so that if after a

01:39:03.420 --> 01:39:07.439
period of time it does get developed or it does change uses

01:39:07.439 --> 01:39:10.439
, basically if they're using it as a loophole they will be

01:39:10.439 --> 01:39:12.439
caught further down the line.

01:39:12.439 --> 01:39:14.439
We can look into that further.

01:39:14.439 --> 01:39:16.439
I think that's kind of what you're suggesting.

01:39:16.439 --> 01:39:20.420
Yeah, either a rollback feature or hard limits on what,

01:39:20.420 --> 01:39:24.350
like a single family home on less than an acre or less than

01:39:24.350 --> 01:39:25.439
two acres.

01:39:25.439 --> 01:39:27.439
I'm going to chime in just a second.

01:39:27.439 --> 01:39:30.949
I think we need a clarification from staff about whether a

01:39:30.949 --> 01:39:33.439
fine was paid on that property or not.

01:39:33.439 --> 01:39:35.439
With regard to the property on Windsor, there was a fine.

01:39:35.439 --> 01:39:37.439
They did cut down the trees without a permit.

01:39:37.439 --> 01:39:40.439
They were required to have a permit for that.

01:39:40.439 --> 01:39:43.590
Now, when we talk about do we need to create thresholds so

01:39:43.590 --> 01:39:46.779
that we ensure that our mitigation parameters or someone

01:39:46.779 --> 01:39:48.439
can't clear cut the site.

01:39:48.439 --> 01:39:51.260
Obviously that still happens even when we have ordinances

01:39:51.260 --> 01:39:53.890
in place where we say you cannot do this without a permit

01:39:53.890 --> 01:39:56.510
and then they will go clear cut the site and say well, we

01:39:56.510 --> 01:39:57.439
didn't know.

01:39:57.439 --> 01:40:00.119
So we will regardless whether this ordinance, whether we

01:40:00.119 --> 01:40:02.680
have thresholds or whether we keep the existing one, we

01:40:02.680 --> 01:40:04.439
will continue to have that issue.

01:40:04.439 --> 01:40:08.439
But we can try and stem that to a certain extent.

01:40:08.439 --> 01:40:11.130
I think what Shandrin is alluding to after hearing you and

01:40:11.130 --> 01:40:13.720
Commissioner Bruegel is perhaps we can create some

01:40:13.720 --> 01:40:15.439
thresholds as it relates to,

01:40:15.439 --> 01:40:20.460
should we do it by acreage and eliminate the fact of a use,

01:40:20.460 --> 01:40:22.600
but then we've got the ag exemption issue as well that we

01:40:22.600 --> 01:40:23.439
need to bring up.

01:40:23.439 --> 01:40:25.439
I think Jennifer, you had raised your hand.

01:40:25.439 --> 01:40:25.439
Yes.

01:40:25.439 --> 01:40:28.710
Yeah, I just wanted to make a point that even though it is

01:40:28.710 --> 01:40:32.020
state law, we are allowed to be more restrictive than state

01:40:32.020 --> 01:40:32.439
law.

01:40:32.439 --> 01:40:36.409
So we can add those limitations on it if that's what you

01:40:36.409 --> 01:40:40.699
choose to do and you can suggest that our direct staff to

01:40:40.699 --> 01:40:45.439
do that and then table the item and have it brought back.

01:40:45.439 --> 01:40:46.439
Commissioner Rossell.

01:40:46.439 --> 01:40:47.439
Thank you.

01:40:47.439 --> 01:40:54.439
You mentioned a rollback, like a retroactive.

01:40:54.439 --> 01:40:56.439
I don't know if that's a good idea.

01:40:56.439 --> 01:40:58.439
I wouldn't be a proponent of that.

01:40:58.439 --> 01:41:00.350
Because if I own property, I cleared it out for a good

01:41:00.350 --> 01:41:02.579
reason, then for whatever reason, I had a hardship, I need

01:41:02.579 --> 01:41:03.439
to sell the land.

01:41:03.439 --> 01:41:05.949
I sell it, the bill comes in, they develop it, then it

01:41:05.949 --> 01:41:09.609
looks like I purposely tried to make the system, which

01:41:09.609 --> 01:41:12.460
might not be the case at all, but now I might actually have

01:41:12.460 --> 01:41:13.439
a penalty.

01:41:13.439 --> 01:41:17.399
So I don't know if the rollback is helpful if there was not

01:41:17.399 --> 01:41:19.439
mal intent to begin with.

01:41:19.439 --> 01:41:20.439
Okay.

01:41:20.439 --> 01:41:22.439
Yeah, that's just one idea.

01:41:22.439 --> 01:41:23.439
Yeah.

01:41:23.439 --> 01:41:24.439
Commissioner Bruegel.

01:41:24.439 --> 01:41:26.439
Thank you, Chair.

01:41:26.439 --> 01:41:29.560
Going back again to that property on Windsor and Hinkle, I

01:41:29.560 --> 01:41:34.600
recall, Munal, that we did talk about there were some fines

01:41:34.600 --> 01:41:36.439
that were paid later.

01:41:36.439 --> 01:41:40.859
But I also recall that whatever fines they paid were a

01:41:40.859 --> 01:41:44.439
small fraction of what they should have been paying either

01:41:44.439 --> 01:41:48.439
into the tree fund or whatever other mitigation.

01:41:48.439 --> 01:41:50.439
It was tiny.

01:41:50.439 --> 01:41:51.439
It was laughable.

01:41:51.439 --> 01:41:54.109
And I want to make sure that we are preventing that so they

01:41:54.109 --> 01:41:56.770
can't just be like, oops, I didn't know, and then just

01:41:56.770 --> 01:41:58.439
write us a check for whatever.

01:41:58.439 --> 01:42:03.350
There needs to be some sort of loophole protection system

01:42:03.350 --> 01:42:04.439
in place.

01:42:04.439 --> 01:42:07.659
And Commissioner Bruegel, I agree with you that the fine in

01:42:07.659 --> 01:42:11.439
comparison to what came down, yes, there was no comparison.

01:42:11.439 --> 01:42:12.439
I understand that.

01:42:12.439 --> 01:42:16.100
However, we have to follow certain parameters as it relates

01:42:16.100 --> 01:42:18.439
to citations and fines and procedure.

01:42:18.439 --> 01:42:19.439
Right, Jennifer?

01:42:19.439 --> 01:42:22.770
Well, let's make- A violation of this code would be a Class

01:42:22.770 --> 01:42:23.439
C misdemeanor.

01:42:23.439 --> 01:42:26.619
And so you're capped at $2,000 per violation, which

01:42:26.619 --> 01:42:30.170
technically, if we calculate it correctly, you would think

01:42:30.170 --> 01:42:32.439
that each tree would be a separate violation.

01:42:32.439 --> 01:42:33.439
Right.

01:42:33.439 --> 01:42:35.439
So that would be up to $2,000 for each tree removed.

01:42:35.439 --> 01:42:36.439
Right.

01:42:36.439 --> 01:42:39.000
And I just want to make sure that whatever penalties are

01:42:39.000 --> 01:42:41.520
put in place for people who maybe didn't know the law or

01:42:41.520 --> 01:42:46.069
maybe were trying to get around the law are more extreme

01:42:46.069 --> 01:42:48.439
than what they would have been charged had they just

01:42:48.439 --> 01:42:48.439
followed the law in the first place.

01:42:48.439 --> 01:42:49.439
Does that make sense?

01:42:49.439 --> 01:42:50.439
Yes, and we did.

01:42:50.439 --> 01:42:51.439
We've done that with the-

01:42:51.439 --> 01:42:55.869
We have, in the proposed ordinance, we are proposing stric

01:42:55.869 --> 01:42:58.439
ter standards for violations.

01:42:58.439 --> 01:42:59.439
Good.

01:42:59.439 --> 01:43:01.439
Commissioner Beck?

01:43:01.439 --> 01:43:02.439
Thank you, Chair.

01:43:02.439 --> 01:43:06.779
Have we done anything to enhance our enforcement

01:43:06.779 --> 01:43:08.439
capabilities?

01:43:08.439 --> 01:43:09.439
Yes.

01:43:09.439 --> 01:43:10.439
Such as?

01:43:10.439 --> 01:43:11.439
Again-

01:43:11.439 --> 01:43:13.439
Have we hired more people?

01:43:13.439 --> 01:43:15.439
Oh, you mean-

01:43:15.439 --> 01:43:16.439
Oh, that.

01:43:16.439 --> 01:43:21.439
And staff laughs in unison, right?

01:43:21.439 --> 01:43:23.439
Well, not in that sense.

01:43:23.439 --> 01:43:25.439
We don't have more boots on the ground.

01:43:25.439 --> 01:43:27.439
Haywood is our-

01:43:27.439 --> 01:43:28.439
Our boot.

01:43:28.439 --> 01:43:30.439
He's our boot.

01:43:30.439 --> 01:43:33.930
I think our first inclination would be to work with the

01:43:33.930 --> 01:43:37.439
property owner to try to get it resolved, right?

01:43:37.439 --> 01:43:38.439
I agree.

01:43:38.439 --> 01:43:40.710
I mean, at the end of the day, you don't want to just

01:43:40.710 --> 01:43:43.439
charge a fine if something can be done about it, right?

01:43:43.439 --> 01:43:44.439
If they could mitigate it.

01:43:44.439 --> 01:43:48.329
But what staff did and what I helped them with in this

01:43:48.329 --> 01:43:53.439
particular change in this amendment, we sort of crafted the

01:43:53.439 --> 01:43:56.779
language where it's a little bit stricter on when

01:43:56.779 --> 01:44:00.439
violations are occurring because it was unclear in the

01:44:00.439 --> 01:44:01.439
first code.

01:44:01.439 --> 01:44:02.439
Yes.

01:44:02.439 --> 01:44:06.319
And so now it's just clarified you will, if you violate

01:44:06.319 --> 01:44:09.439
this section, be responsible this way.

01:44:09.439 --> 01:44:14.510
And so we've really laid that out and now Haywood has an

01:44:14.510 --> 01:44:20.260
option where if he has somebody who's really recalcitrant,

01:44:20.260 --> 01:44:24.439
then he can go and give him the hard sell.

01:44:24.439 --> 01:44:26.439
No.

01:44:26.439 --> 01:44:28.439
But it's easier to enforce.

01:44:28.439 --> 01:44:29.439
Sure.

01:44:29.439 --> 01:44:30.439
Okay.

01:44:30.439 --> 01:44:31.439
Thank you.

01:44:31.439 --> 01:44:34.439
Okay.

01:44:34.439 --> 01:44:39.439
Any other questions on this item?

01:44:39.439 --> 01:44:40.439
Seeing none.

01:44:40.439 --> 01:44:42.439
Thank you very much.

01:44:42.439 --> 01:44:47.439
I'm going to close our work session at 622.

01:44:47.439 --> 01:44:50.439
And hopefully we can reconvene as close to 630 as possible.

01:44:50.439 --> 01:45:01.439
I think we're going to have a pretty full house tonight.

01:45:01.439 --> 01:45:04.869
Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton Planning and

01:45:04.869 --> 01:45:07.439
Zoning Commission for March 23rd.

01:45:07.439 --> 01:45:11.619
It is 635 and our meeting has been duly posted and we do

01:45:11.619 --> 01:45:15.380
have a quorum present and I call our meeting to order at

01:45:15.380 --> 01:45:16.439
this time.

01:45:16.439 --> 01:45:18.739
Our first order of business is to stand to give the pledge

01:45:18.739 --> 01:45:24.439
to the U.S. and the Texas flag.

01:45:24.439 --> 01:45:28.550
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of

01:45:28.550 --> 01:45:33.380
America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation

01:45:33.380 --> 01:45:40.439
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

01:45:40.439 --> 01:45:56.329
I honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to the Texas,

01:45:56.329 --> 01:45:57.439
one state under God, one individual.

01:45:57.439 --> 01:45:59.439
I have one item that's not on our agenda.

01:45:59.439 --> 01:46:01.439
I want to get out of the way first.

01:46:01.439 --> 01:46:07.439
Is there a representative from Ignite here to speak?

01:46:07.439 --> 01:46:10.439
If not, I'm just going to give them a shout out.

01:46:10.439 --> 01:46:14.619
They are an organization from UNT and they're a nonprofit

01:46:14.619 --> 01:46:18.920
organization that aims to empower and recruit women to run

01:46:18.920 --> 01:46:21.439
and participate in politics.

01:46:21.439 --> 01:46:24.439
So you are there. Great.

01:46:24.439 --> 01:46:27.439
Well, a shout out to you guys. Thanks for coming.

01:46:27.439 --> 01:46:31.720
Appreciate your support and being a part of our process

01:46:31.720 --> 01:46:32.439
here.

01:46:32.439 --> 01:46:40.489
The next item that is posted on our agenda is to consider

01:46:40.489 --> 01:46:47.439
approval of our minutes for March the 9th.

01:46:47.439 --> 01:46:51.439
The chair would entertain a motion on the minutes.

01:46:51.439 --> 01:46:53.439
Commissioner Dudowitz.

01:46:53.439 --> 01:46:55.439
I motion to approve the minutes.

01:46:55.439 --> 01:46:56.439
Commissioner Beck.

01:46:56.439 --> 01:46:57.439
Second.

01:46:57.439 --> 01:47:01.439
I have a first and a second. Any discussion?

01:47:01.439 --> 01:47:13.439
Seeing none, I call for a vote on the board.

01:47:13.439 --> 01:47:17.439
Motion carries 7-0.

01:47:17.439 --> 01:47:29.439
Our next item is our consent agenda.

01:47:29.439 --> 01:47:30.439
Commissioner Dudowitz.

01:47:30.439 --> 01:47:38.439
I motion to approve the consent agenda.

01:47:38.439 --> 01:47:39.439
Commissioner Hussbuth.

01:47:39.439 --> 01:47:41.439
Second.

01:47:41.439 --> 01:47:46.439
I have a first and a second. Any discussion?

01:47:46.439 --> 01:47:57.439
Seeing none, I call for a vote on the board.

01:47:57.439 --> 01:48:07.439
Motion carries 7-0.

01:48:07.439 --> 01:48:11.439
That moves us to our public hearing section.

01:48:11.439 --> 01:48:15.869
At this time, I will open the public hearing for item A, AD

01:48:15.869 --> 01:48:20.439
P 16-0002C.

01:48:20.439 --> 01:48:32.399
I would ask the applicant to come forward and present your

01:48:32.399 --> 01:48:37.439
project at this time.

01:48:37.439 --> 01:48:39.439
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

01:48:39.439 --> 01:48:40.439
My name is Scott Radcliffe.

01:48:40.439 --> 01:48:42.439
I'm with Radcliffe Engineering Services.

01:48:42.439 --> 01:48:44.439
I'm representing Buc-E's.

01:48:44.439 --> 01:49:04.439
I appreciate the opportunity to visit with you all today.

01:49:04.439 --> 01:49:11.689
I just wanted to reiterate this is for the environmentally

01:49:11.689 --> 01:49:14.439
sensitive area ADP,

01:49:14.439 --> 01:49:16.920
alternative development plan for the 37 acres being

01:49:16.920 --> 01:49:17.439
considered for Buc-E's development.

01:49:17.439 --> 01:49:19.760
Just a little bit of background and snapshot on what the B

01:49:19.760 --> 01:49:21.439
uc-E's program and what they offer to the community.

01:49:21.439 --> 01:49:24.439
This particular project is going to bring in approximately

01:49:24.439 --> 01:49:29.149
52,000 square foot facility, 92 fueling positions, about

01:49:29.149 --> 01:49:31.439
150 jobs.

01:49:31.439 --> 01:49:36.720
We are noted throughout the U.S. as being one of the clean

01:49:36.720 --> 01:49:39.439
est places to use on your travel destination.

01:49:39.439 --> 01:49:42.850
We appreciate that recommendation for having the cleanest

01:49:42.850 --> 01:49:44.439
bathrooms in the world.

01:49:44.439 --> 01:49:47.439
Just a little bit of background on the site.

01:49:47.439 --> 01:49:49.220
You all are probably familiar with this, but what we are

01:49:49.220 --> 01:49:52.489
looking at is a Buc-E's anchor facility and some padlocks

01:49:52.489 --> 01:49:53.439
along the front,

01:49:53.439 --> 01:49:56.949
which is the internal connector road which provides the

01:49:56.949 --> 01:50:00.539
opportunity for utilities to serve the greater public as

01:50:00.539 --> 01:50:02.439
well as this development.

01:50:02.439 --> 01:50:05.800
This is just kind of a snapshot of artist rendering of what

01:50:05.800 --> 01:50:08.439
the project's invention would look like.

01:50:08.439 --> 01:50:14.439
The Buc-E's facility being the primary anchor seen there in

01:50:14.439 --> 01:50:16.439
the background.

01:50:16.439 --> 01:50:19.439
Okay, what is the -- why ESA ADP?

01:50:19.439 --> 01:50:22.439
Why is this important to this particular project?

01:50:22.439 --> 01:50:27.100
We are looking at offsetting the mitigation area with a

01:50:27.100 --> 01:50:30.439
proposed good quality upland area.

01:50:30.439 --> 01:50:34.109
In addition to this, it will house additional trees to be

01:50:34.109 --> 01:50:37.779
planted of high quality large specimens from the city tree

01:50:37.779 --> 01:50:38.439
list.

01:50:38.439 --> 01:50:43.439
It also is a larger area than what was being disturbed.

01:50:43.439 --> 01:50:47.149
Bringing in the great component of this, which is the

01:50:47.149 --> 01:50:50.439
innovative or technology aspect of our proposed plan,

01:50:50.439 --> 01:50:56.789
which is to bring in storm scepters, which are a mechanical

01:50:56.789 --> 01:51:01.439
means of separating sediment and debris from the rain water

01:51:01.439 --> 01:51:06.439
runoff associated with development related to this project,

01:51:06.439 --> 01:51:11.109
specifically those of the upland area draining to this low

01:51:11.109 --> 01:51:14.439
point in this public connecting road.

01:51:14.439 --> 01:51:18.859
Also, this is bringing in public utilities, a key utility

01:51:18.859 --> 01:51:22.439
connection is being completed for the city.

01:51:22.439 --> 01:51:24.439
We are tying stub lines that go all the way back to the

01:51:24.439 --> 01:51:26.949
subdivisions in the back of us providing water, potable

01:51:26.949 --> 01:51:29.439
water and fire demand requirements.

01:51:29.439 --> 01:51:33.390
Also, wastewater is being extended into this parcel and

01:51:33.390 --> 01:51:37.520
other key utility components are being completed with this

01:51:37.520 --> 01:51:38.439
project.

01:51:38.439 --> 01:51:42.810
Also bringing in traffic impacts to improve the mobility

01:51:42.810 --> 01:51:44.439
within this area.

01:51:44.439 --> 01:51:47.550
We are working with the city on improving Brinker Road and

01:51:47.550 --> 01:51:51.630
putting in an overpass for 35 so the Brinker will be a full

01:51:51.630 --> 01:51:52.439
under and overpass,

01:51:52.439 --> 01:51:55.869
providing key connections back to the north and to the

01:51:55.869 --> 01:52:00.130
south to provide interconnectivity, flow and to reduce

01:52:00.130 --> 01:52:02.439
traffic congestion.

01:52:02.439 --> 01:52:05.390
In addition to the crossing, we are proposing to oversize

01:52:05.390 --> 01:52:08.439
the storm sewer culvert which goes underneath the roadway.

01:52:08.439 --> 01:52:11.180
This will enable the waters that transition down this emb

01:52:11.180 --> 01:52:14.189
ankment to pass safely underneath the water, underneath the

01:52:14.189 --> 01:52:16.439
road with minimal velocity increases

01:52:16.439 --> 01:52:19.789
and also provide the ability for your bugs and your bees

01:52:19.789 --> 01:52:22.909
and your bunnies and everybody to have safe passage

01:52:22.909 --> 01:52:24.439
underneath the road.

01:52:24.439 --> 01:52:27.939
Two large 48 inch culverts are proposed in order to make

01:52:27.939 --> 01:52:31.460
this crossing which exceeds the requirements for this type

01:52:31.460 --> 01:52:34.100
of development and also for the demands hydraulically for

01:52:34.100 --> 01:52:35.439
this particular channel section.

01:52:35.439 --> 01:52:39.390
We are also proposing one of those things that happens with

01:52:39.390 --> 01:52:43.090
any type of channelizing or funneling of water is you do

01:52:43.090 --> 01:52:45.439
increase the water velocity.

01:52:45.439 --> 01:52:48.989
What we are proposing is to provide energy dissipators in a

01:52:48.989 --> 01:52:52.350
stilling basin in order to return that water back to its

01:52:52.350 --> 01:52:53.439
original state.

01:52:53.439 --> 01:52:56.260
So it comes into the culverts and then exits the culverts

01:52:56.260 --> 01:52:57.439
in a similar condition.

01:52:57.439 --> 01:52:59.920
Not introducing any new pollutant loads because of the

01:52:59.920 --> 01:53:03.640
interceptors that will be there and then also returning the

01:53:03.640 --> 01:53:06.439
water back to its original state.

01:53:06.439 --> 01:53:09.090
Preserving the uplands habitat is important to us as well

01:53:09.090 --> 01:53:10.439
as it is to the community.

01:53:10.439 --> 01:53:12.840
We believe in having a good looking product and we pride

01:53:12.840 --> 01:53:14.439
ourselves on being the top notch.

01:53:14.439 --> 01:53:17.720
Preserving this uplands area is part of our goals and our

01:53:17.720 --> 01:53:19.439
ambitions for this project.

01:53:19.439 --> 01:53:22.279
To make a nice attractive area for the citizenry that

01:53:22.279 --> 01:53:25.189
currently view this area as well as those that would be

01:53:25.189 --> 01:53:26.439
traveling past it.

01:53:26.439 --> 01:53:29.600
Preserving the existing neighborhood mentality and the

01:53:29.600 --> 01:53:31.439
existing neighborhood look.

01:53:31.439 --> 01:53:35.720
Providing a quality development that fits the character of

01:53:35.720 --> 01:53:40.100
Denton by providing additional modes for transportation as

01:53:40.100 --> 01:53:42.439
well as for infrastructure.

01:53:42.439 --> 01:53:46.380
Focusing new development in an area that is designated for

01:53:46.380 --> 01:53:49.659
that in order to reduce urban sprawl this tract is

01:53:49.659 --> 01:53:52.439
designated for this particular use.

01:53:52.439 --> 01:53:55.840
Associates development keeping it all channeled and funnel

01:53:55.840 --> 01:53:58.439
ed in one particular location providing that.

01:53:58.439 --> 01:54:01.850
And also looking at providing the highest quality standards

01:54:01.850 --> 01:54:05.319
as it pertains to Chapter 13 of the development code to the

01:54:05.319 --> 01:54:06.439
city of Denton.

01:54:06.439 --> 01:54:09.220
I appreciate the opportunity and if you have any questions

01:54:09.220 --> 01:54:11.930
I'll be more than happy to answer those at the appropriate

01:54:11.930 --> 01:54:12.439
time.

01:54:12.439 --> 01:54:15.439
Commissioner back. Thank you chair. Thank you Mr. Radcliffe

01:54:15.439 --> 01:54:18.439
. Yes sir. For coming down and speaking with us.

01:54:18.439 --> 01:54:21.319
Obviously I think the biggest concern for me and everyone

01:54:21.319 --> 01:54:24.060
here especially if you're a strong preservation is for

01:54:24.060 --> 01:54:25.439
natural ecological areas.

01:54:25.439 --> 01:54:30.840
The fact that we've got to do some dramatic changes to this

01:54:30.840 --> 01:54:33.439
ESA this repairing buffer.

01:54:33.439 --> 01:54:37.159
Were there not any other options you could choose to

01:54:37.159 --> 01:54:41.439
accommodate your needs to get a flow through.

01:54:41.439 --> 01:54:44.960
Location wise or just construction wise that would avoid

01:54:44.960 --> 01:54:48.439
going in and doing a lot of damage to this one section.

01:54:48.439 --> 01:54:50.840
We're actually if you look at these sections we're actually

01:54:50.840 --> 01:54:53.109
crossing at one of the narrow portions that relates to the

01:54:53.109 --> 01:54:55.439
tree canopy and develop tree growth that's there.

01:54:55.439 --> 01:54:58.569
So we selected it for that matter. We're also trying to

01:54:58.569 --> 01:55:01.880
stay away from the residents that are behind us separating

01:55:01.880 --> 01:55:05.539
that infrastructure and development from the citizenry

01:55:05.539 --> 01:55:06.439
behind us.

01:55:06.439 --> 01:55:09.529
So this met the goals and objectives of that as well as

01:55:09.529 --> 01:55:12.880
keeping us off of the frontage road not having a parallel

01:55:12.880 --> 01:55:13.439
road.

01:55:13.439 --> 01:55:17.100
And so that's why we chose this selection. Okay. But again

01:55:17.100 --> 01:55:20.350
minimal damage seems like it could have been achieved if

01:55:20.350 --> 01:55:22.439
and I'm just throwing this out.

01:55:22.439 --> 01:55:26.640
Let me know why this is going to be a problem for you. My

01:55:26.640 --> 01:55:31.600
thought was probably running an entrance way coming from I

01:55:31.600 --> 01:55:35.100
guess it's the west or the north depending on how you look

01:55:35.100 --> 01:55:35.439
at it.

01:55:35.439 --> 01:55:39.829
And cutting in between lots three and four put your road in

01:55:39.829 --> 01:55:44.439
there and then following the path that you got there now.

01:55:44.439 --> 01:55:48.279
You would bypass the repairing buffer. Yes I can clarify

01:55:48.279 --> 01:55:49.439
that really easily.

01:55:49.439 --> 01:55:52.850
There's a ramp that's there. Text out ramp and there's

01:55:52.850 --> 01:55:55.250
certain safety criteria required with the speeds coming off

01:55:55.250 --> 01:55:58.439
of 35 require specific spacing distance.

01:55:58.439 --> 01:56:01.750
And so to have anything in that neck of the woods as it

01:56:01.750 --> 01:56:05.460
relates to a primary road connection would not be a safe

01:56:05.460 --> 01:56:06.439
location to do that.

01:56:06.439 --> 01:56:09.609
So this was chosen because it is passed or behind the ramp

01:56:09.609 --> 01:56:12.640
and provides safe ingress and egress for the patrons

01:56:12.640 --> 01:56:14.439
leaving. Oh really.

01:56:14.439 --> 01:56:18.100
Yes sir. The ramp comes off basically in this general

01:56:18.100 --> 01:56:22.479
location right here and there's a 460 foot what they call a

01:56:22.479 --> 01:56:26.189
weaving space that enables traffic to meander and shift

01:56:26.189 --> 01:56:29.229
lanes and get over whatever whichever direction they need

01:56:29.229 --> 01:56:29.439
to go.

01:56:29.439 --> 01:56:32.260
Whether to go around the future turn around at Brinker to

01:56:32.260 --> 01:56:35.000
turn at Brinker or go to Buckees or whatever the case may

01:56:35.000 --> 01:56:35.439
be.

01:56:35.439 --> 01:56:39.180
So that safety zone basically would permit would not permit

01:56:39.180 --> 01:56:41.439
that type of approach to be made.

01:56:41.439 --> 01:56:44.630
Okay so your hands are tied by text out essentially. Well

01:56:44.630 --> 01:56:46.979
text out I mean you can twist arms and stuff but we're more

01:56:46.979 --> 01:56:48.439
concerned about the safety. Right.

01:56:48.439 --> 01:56:51.550
And placing people into high velocity environments with

01:56:51.550 --> 01:56:55.439
vehicles moving at 50 to 70 miles an hour isn't preferable.

01:56:55.439 --> 01:56:59.710
Okay how about a section option here where you maintain the

01:56:59.710 --> 01:57:01.439
path you're going here.

01:57:01.439 --> 01:57:04.659
But rather than going in and again doing considerable

01:57:04.659 --> 01:57:08.180
damage here and paving over this area essentially. What

01:57:08.180 --> 01:57:11.529
about an elevated crossover type thing where you're

01:57:11.529 --> 01:57:16.149
allowing the natural flow to remain you can put some peers

01:57:16.149 --> 01:57:19.439
or columns in there to support your overpass.

01:57:19.439 --> 01:57:22.970
And we're not talking about a real high just enough to

01:57:22.970 --> 01:57:27.220
where from the 100 foot distance from one side of the

01:57:27.220 --> 01:57:29.439
repairing buffer to the other.

01:57:29.439 --> 01:57:32.159
Did anybody look at that possibility. Yes in order to do

01:57:32.159 --> 01:57:34.510
that type of development you would still have to get in

01:57:34.510 --> 01:57:35.439
there and tear it up.

01:57:35.439 --> 01:57:38.340
Because in order to get the vehicles in there to make the

01:57:38.340 --> 01:57:41.130
drillings and to do the prep for making that crossing also

01:57:41.130 --> 01:57:43.670
there's utilities that are crossing there is going to be

01:57:43.670 --> 01:57:44.439
disturbed.

01:57:44.439 --> 01:57:46.689
What we tried to do is put the utility corridor and the

01:57:46.689 --> 01:57:49.500
road corridor in the same location. So as a minimize that

01:57:49.500 --> 01:57:52.439
disturbance. Okay.

01:57:52.439 --> 01:57:58.770
Thank you. Yes. More questions. Commissioner Burgo. Thank

01:57:58.770 --> 01:57:59.439
you chair. Commissioner Beckham going to piggyback off of

01:57:59.439 --> 01:57:59.439
what you were asking.

01:57:59.439 --> 01:58:03.960
That was one of my questions too. Why is it necessary to

01:58:03.960 --> 01:58:06.439
have that road to the west there.

01:58:06.439 --> 01:58:09.090
Couldn't you just enter the property through that main road

01:58:09.090 --> 01:58:12.060
right there in the center. We have found that having

01:58:12.060 --> 01:58:15.710
multiple connectivity points for reduces traffic and

01:58:15.710 --> 01:58:18.000
provides an easier flow for the patrons and for those

01:58:18.000 --> 01:58:19.439
utilizing these intersections.

01:58:19.439 --> 01:58:23.479
Having one certain one specific point of interest egress is

01:58:23.479 --> 01:58:29.439
problematic and introduces heavily congested areas. Okay.

01:58:29.439 --> 01:58:33.890
My next question is about the culvert system. Are there I

01:58:33.890 --> 01:58:36.319
understand we talked quite a bit. I'm not sure if you were

01:58:36.319 --> 01:58:38.689
in the work session or not but my back to the crowd. Yeah I

01:58:38.689 --> 01:58:39.439
was behind you.

01:58:39.439 --> 01:58:42.180
Okay. So you heard the conversation about the storm scep

01:58:42.180 --> 01:58:45.109
ters. You talked at length about that. And my question for

01:58:45.109 --> 01:58:47.840
staff at that time was what sort of filtration system might

01:58:47.840 --> 01:58:50.890
be in place for the culverts because as I understand for

01:58:50.890 --> 01:58:54.720
those who weren't in the work session the storm scepters

01:58:54.720 --> 01:58:56.869
are going to be there to kind of collect the runoff from

01:58:56.869 --> 01:59:01.439
the properties to the east and west of the of the ESA.

01:59:01.439 --> 01:59:04.439
Correct. But when you when you cut a road through riparian

01:59:04.439 --> 01:59:07.319
habitat and the only thing that you have underneath there

01:59:07.319 --> 01:59:10.189
is a culvert there's no sort of filtration system from the

01:59:10.189 --> 01:59:13.140
runoff coming whatever runoff isn't captured by the storm

01:59:13.140 --> 01:59:16.079
sectors and goes into that creek but also the runoff coming

01:59:16.079 --> 01:59:21.439
from I 35 and now you have now you have less of a natural

01:59:21.439 --> 01:59:24.729
filtration system to bring that to clean that water from

01:59:24.729 --> 01:59:27.439
the north as it enters into that pond in the south.

01:59:27.439 --> 01:59:30.329
So is there any filtration system in place that you are it

01:59:30.329 --> 01:59:33.010
's something that you can add to the culvert system to

01:59:33.010 --> 01:59:35.930
further protect the quality of the water as it relates to

01:59:35.930 --> 01:59:39.439
the quality of the water that's coming underneath I 35.

01:59:39.439 --> 01:59:42.949
Your primary treatments going to occur in the first hundred

01:59:42.949 --> 01:59:46.890
, 200 feet of the riparian area which is entering into, and

01:59:46.890 --> 01:59:48.439
we are well past that.

01:59:48.439 --> 01:59:51.500
The area that we're disturbing is not adding anything in

01:59:51.500 --> 01:59:54.600
fact we're taking pollutants out with our storm scepters

01:59:54.600 --> 01:59:57.529
and so we're improving the water quality that would be

01:59:57.529 --> 02:00:00.630
entering in that as relates to some sort of large contamin

02:00:00.630 --> 02:00:02.439
ant or capturing device.

02:00:02.439 --> 02:00:06.109
You know, if the trees produced green backs, we'd be able

02:00:06.109 --> 02:00:09.460
to fund anything we wanted to but I don't know of any off

02:00:09.460 --> 02:00:12.949
the shelf type of prototype that would be able to fit that

02:00:12.949 --> 02:00:16.659
type of application and provide any additional treatment

02:00:16.659 --> 02:00:19.170
and what's already being provided by the natural riparian

02:00:19.170 --> 02:00:20.439
area north of the culverts.

02:00:20.439 --> 02:00:23.659
What are you going to do to prevent runoff from that that

02:00:23.659 --> 02:00:27.090
part right there with a road goes over, goes over the creek

02:00:27.090 --> 02:00:27.439
.

02:00:27.439 --> 02:00:30.350
I'm sorry so so I understand so when you say a lot of the

02:00:30.350 --> 02:00:33.600
filtration is going to happen in the first hundred feet or

02:00:33.600 --> 02:00:37.439
so from I 35 to the point of the right the existing runoff.

02:00:37.439 --> 02:00:38.439
Yeah.

02:00:38.439 --> 02:00:42.279
So, but what about the cars that cross over that and there

02:00:42.279 --> 02:00:45.720
's going to be some runoff from the road and from some

02:00:45.720 --> 02:00:49.439
pollution from some of the cars and whatnot on this.

02:00:49.439 --> 02:00:52.439
Does that make sense that on our on the private road.

02:00:52.439 --> 02:00:55.220
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so all that was going to be captured by

02:00:55.220 --> 02:00:57.439
the storm scepters that are in that basin.

02:00:57.439 --> 02:01:00.520
There's okay there's I think staff had a map that showed

02:01:00.520 --> 02:01:03.260
with that base and look like I don't have that in my

02:01:03.260 --> 02:01:06.470
presentation, but it is picking up the area that would be

02:01:06.470 --> 02:01:10.270
contributing towards this ESA is being captured by the

02:01:10.270 --> 02:01:15.220
storm scepters that were proposing basically removing all

02:01:15.220 --> 02:01:19.439
the trash and debris from the stormwater introducing it in

02:01:19.439 --> 02:01:21.439
a controlled environment so as to try to minimize the road.

02:01:21.439 --> 02:01:25.539
And put water back into the environment at a city defined

02:01:25.539 --> 02:01:28.439
rate of three to six feet per second.

02:01:28.439 --> 02:01:29.439
Okay, thank you.

02:01:29.439 --> 02:01:31.439
Yes.

02:01:31.439 --> 02:01:33.439
Commissioner Taylor.

02:01:33.439 --> 02:01:34.439
Thank you, Chair.

02:01:34.439 --> 02:01:51.439
So, I'm looking at the road on the north end here. And if

02:01:51.439 --> 02:01:51.439
you look at an aerial map it. This road appears to line up

02:01:51.439 --> 02:01:51.439
with an existing kind of gravel pathway that goes to like

02:01:51.439 --> 02:01:51.439
the utilities and power line easement.

02:01:51.439 --> 02:01:55.550
And right now, people exit the interstate and cross the

02:01:55.550 --> 02:01:58.439
double white line to turn into that.

02:01:58.439 --> 02:02:01.909
So I do have a concern that we're, we're creating a

02:02:01.909 --> 02:02:06.060
situation where people will intentionally be taking this

02:02:06.060 --> 02:02:09.680
first turn to get to, you know, to cut across here, you

02:02:09.680 --> 02:02:12.659
have to cut across right there just cut across the double

02:02:12.659 --> 02:02:13.439
white line.

02:02:13.439 --> 02:02:18.770
Is there any plan to, to put up a barrier or, or some other

02:02:18.770 --> 02:02:24.329
device that would prevent people from taking that that cut

02:02:24.329 --> 02:02:27.439
across two lanes of traffic.

02:02:27.439 --> 02:02:30.779
Yes, sir. We've been working with text out in the city one

02:02:30.779 --> 02:02:33.970
on one on getting the improvements at 288 Brinker and May

02:02:33.970 --> 02:02:36.460
hill. And part of those improvements are just like you're

02:02:36.460 --> 02:02:39.010
talking about, making sure that these exits and entrance

02:02:39.010 --> 02:02:40.439
points aren't circumvented.

02:02:40.439 --> 02:02:44.340
And the new ramp is to be put to the discharge traffic pass

02:02:44.340 --> 02:02:47.739
this point. So they would have to drive through the grass

02:02:47.739 --> 02:02:50.750
and you know, the typical text out segment there from the

02:02:50.750 --> 02:02:53.670
ramp in order to try to jump across there and make any type

02:02:53.670 --> 02:02:54.439
of entryway.

02:02:54.439 --> 02:02:56.970
So you're saying that the text out ramp is actually moving

02:02:56.970 --> 02:03:00.189
south. Yes, it's being elongated in that section of front

02:03:00.189 --> 02:03:03.239
age road is actually being snaked a little bit in front of

02:03:03.239 --> 02:03:05.439
the Buc-E's proposed project here.

02:03:05.439 --> 02:03:08.210
We are actually developing the full fully developed text

02:03:08.210 --> 02:03:11.140
out section for this particular segment. So along this

02:03:11.140 --> 02:03:14.869
entire almost 2000 linear feet of frontage, it'll be the

02:03:14.869 --> 02:03:16.439
full build out for text.

02:03:16.439 --> 02:03:19.119
So this frontage road will be done. So it'll look like the

02:03:19.119 --> 02:03:21.789
frontage road, if you will. And so part of that is taking

02:03:21.789 --> 02:03:24.569
into consideration these things, which the city has noted

02:03:24.569 --> 02:03:27.350
as being concerns and trying to address those traffic needs

02:03:27.350 --> 02:03:28.439
with this project.

02:03:28.439 --> 02:03:32.109
And this this new drive on the north end, does it connect

02:03:32.109 --> 02:03:35.829
to the existing will it connect to the existing parking lot

02:03:35.829 --> 02:03:37.439
for the goodwill?

02:03:37.439 --> 02:03:46.800
Goodwill, gym, trampoline park. There is an existing it's

02:03:46.800 --> 02:03:48.069
classified as a right of way easement is what that that

02:03:48.069 --> 02:03:50.439
segment is a 50 foot wide swath that comes through there.

02:03:50.439 --> 02:03:54.909
The intent is to provide access to the gentleman that's

02:03:54.909 --> 02:03:59.000
behind the goodwill store. And so this will parallel that

02:03:59.000 --> 02:04:01.909
as it relates to prohibiting goodwill from tying to this

02:04:01.909 --> 02:04:02.439
road.

02:04:02.439 --> 02:04:05.000
I don't have the purview to be able to dictate that. But as

02:04:05.000 --> 02:04:07.609
we're proposing it right now, it's just a connection point

02:04:07.609 --> 02:04:10.060
that will allow them to connect as well as us to connect to

02:04:10.060 --> 02:04:11.439
this new frontage road.

02:04:11.439 --> 02:04:14.590
So your your plan will not well you'll keep the curb and

02:04:14.590 --> 02:04:17.890
there will be a curb between curb and gutter. Yeah, curb

02:04:17.890 --> 02:04:20.279
and gutter between you and the goodwill and sidewalk and

02:04:20.279 --> 02:04:22.439
landscaping and all those nice things.

02:04:22.439 --> 02:04:24.439
Okay. Thank you.

02:04:24.439 --> 02:04:32.779
Commissioner Beck. Thank you, Chair. Let me ask you a few

02:04:32.779 --> 02:04:33.789
questions about these storm scepters. I'm a little

02:04:33.789 --> 02:04:34.779
concerned I did a little quick survey on them and some

02:04:34.779 --> 02:04:35.439
questions were raised.

02:04:35.439 --> 02:04:39.109
So maybe you can allay my concerns to that. Again, going

02:04:39.109 --> 02:04:41.609
back. Can you get your microphone closer and tell you they

02:04:41.609 --> 02:04:42.439
can't hear you.

02:04:42.439 --> 02:04:46.760
How's that. Okay. Going back to my idea of an overpass

02:04:46.760 --> 02:04:51.630
rather than a road. Okay. Damage wise going to be the same.

02:04:51.630 --> 02:04:56.060
But the end product is going to be, you know, natural flow

02:04:56.060 --> 02:04:59.439
as opposed to using these storm scepters.

02:04:59.439 --> 02:05:03.960
And correct me if I'm wrong here. These units on average

02:05:03.960 --> 02:05:09.010
eliminate only 74% of the total suspended solids which are

02:05:09.010 --> 02:05:13.770
organic and inorganic materials that lower water quality in

02:05:13.770 --> 02:05:16.439
high concentrations over time.

02:05:16.439 --> 02:05:19.500
We're losing something there it seems like. Well, we're

02:05:19.500 --> 02:05:22.439
actually gaining quite a bit because the storm scepters

02:05:22.439 --> 02:05:25.750
actually function even in high velocity conditions. And one

02:05:25.750 --> 02:05:28.779
of the things in the proposed units that we're proposing is

02:05:28.779 --> 02:05:30.439
that you still get around a 50% removal rate even in a 100

02:05:30.439 --> 02:05:30.439
year storm event.

02:05:30.439 --> 02:05:32.920
You have a 100 year storm event that comes through a normal

02:05:32.920 --> 02:05:35.159
channel, you end up having more erosion than you actually

02:05:35.159 --> 02:05:38.149
do have sediment deposits. And so by having the mechanical

02:05:38.149 --> 02:05:42.149
means you're actually basically giving a quantifiable means

02:05:42.149 --> 02:05:43.439
of removing pollutant load.

02:05:43.439 --> 02:05:46.399
Whereas the natural stream, if you have a winter, a hard

02:05:46.399 --> 02:05:49.350
winter and all your undergrowth story is dead and you have

02:05:49.350 --> 02:05:52.329
a hard rain it's not doing any good. If you have trees that

02:05:52.329 --> 02:05:54.680
die off due to attrition, they're, you know, they're not

02:05:54.680 --> 02:05:55.439
doing any good.

02:05:55.439 --> 02:05:57.479
They're not helping to hold. If your understory gets

02:05:57.479 --> 02:06:00.109
disturbed or destroyed during a large event, it's no longer

02:06:00.109 --> 02:06:02.760
being able to remove that. But in mechanical means is

02:06:02.760 --> 02:06:05.340
something that's got science behind it that's got a

02:06:05.340 --> 02:06:06.439
specific number.

02:06:06.439 --> 02:06:09.060
This gets a certain amount of flow, it's going to remove a

02:06:09.060 --> 02:06:11.829
certain amount. And in a natural environment, in an ideal

02:06:11.829 --> 02:06:14.529
situation in a low flow, yes, you're going to get a certain

02:06:14.529 --> 02:06:15.439
load removal.

02:06:15.439 --> 02:06:17.840
But as you increase your flow, you can't guarantee that you

02:06:17.840 --> 02:06:19.949
're going to get that same removal because the water is

02:06:19.949 --> 02:06:22.439
moving faster and it's over a bigger disturbed area.

02:06:22.439 --> 02:06:26.109
Okay, again though, overtime is a big concern too. A lot of

02:06:26.109 --> 02:06:29.720
maintenance is going to be required here. These things will

02:06:29.720 --> 02:06:33.500
break down, replacement may be included. So again, it would

02:06:33.500 --> 02:06:37.810
take time to build this repair and buffer back up to where

02:06:37.810 --> 02:06:42.439
the natural elements could take care of this.

02:06:42.439 --> 02:06:46.109
And not worry about maintenance down the road and whether

02:06:46.109 --> 02:06:49.470
it's going to be done in a timely manner. And again,

02:06:49.470 --> 02:06:53.170
information I got says the storm scepters were not expected

02:06:53.170 --> 02:06:57.439
to provide significant nutrient or fecal coliform removal.

02:06:57.439 --> 02:07:09.359
Most of the survey are studied done in 2003. So my question

02:07:09.359 --> 02:07:16.489
would be, are they up to this task now? And it also begs

02:07:16.489 --> 02:07:16.710
the question too, that if the natural repair and buffers

02:07:16.710 --> 02:07:16.989
are capable of removing 60 to 65% of these nutrients, which

02:07:16.989 --> 02:07:17.439
they are, are these storm scepters less capable than this?

02:07:17.439 --> 02:07:20.229
Well, it's removing the fecal coliform is the reason they

02:07:20.229 --> 02:07:23.069
're able to remove fecal coliforms because they're a living

02:07:23.069 --> 02:07:26.000
environment. And so also keeping in mind that there is this

02:07:26.000 --> 02:07:28.710
native repair and buffer that's being preserved that is

02:07:28.710 --> 02:07:30.439
south of this development.

02:07:30.439 --> 02:07:33.680
So the minor area, the 50 foot swath that we're removing,

02:07:33.680 --> 02:07:37.390
50 foot wide swath has another 100, 150 feet worth of

02:07:37.390 --> 02:07:40.539
channel plus a pond down there that receive these nutrients

02:07:40.539 --> 02:07:42.439
and live off of these nutrients.

02:07:42.439 --> 02:07:44.939
So it's kind of like the whole antibacterial thing. You

02:07:44.939 --> 02:07:47.930
kill all the bugs, you don't have any good bugs too. So you

02:07:47.930 --> 02:07:52.670
've got a system that's removing the eyesores, the heavy

02:07:52.670 --> 02:07:56.579
things, the fats and the oils, and you're putting them back

02:07:56.579 --> 02:08:00.060
into an environment which it can continue on its filtration

02:08:00.060 --> 02:08:03.449
system down into the pond and then eventually down into

02:08:03.449 --> 02:08:04.439
Lake Louisville.

02:08:04.439 --> 02:08:07.409
And so this is just part of the components and what we're

02:08:07.409 --> 02:08:10.350
trying to do is provide a means of getting, providing

02:08:10.350 --> 02:08:13.460
development and providing it in a rational, reasonable

02:08:13.460 --> 02:08:16.439
fashion so that not only can the environment thrive but

02:08:16.439 --> 02:08:19.439
also we can have something that's nice to look at.

02:08:19.439 --> 02:08:21.770
Having these pollutants in the existing stream, you have

02:08:21.770 --> 02:08:24.119
your styrofoam cups and your trash and all that stuff, that

02:08:24.119 --> 02:08:26.390
stuff you still see floating down the stream and you can go

02:08:26.390 --> 02:08:28.609
out there today and you can see that stuff sitting in that

02:08:28.609 --> 02:08:29.439
stream bed.

02:08:29.439 --> 02:08:32.020
What this does is all that stuff is picked up and stored

02:08:32.020 --> 02:08:34.939
underground and then it's able to become, become and pumped

02:08:34.939 --> 02:08:37.439
regularly, just like you would on a grease trap at a

02:08:37.439 --> 02:08:39.880
restaurant, and suck those fats and the sediments out of

02:08:39.880 --> 02:08:40.439
the system.

02:08:40.439 --> 02:08:43.529
It's designed for quick connect so that the system can come

02:08:43.529 --> 02:08:46.500
and think the average time is about five to ten minutes to

02:08:46.500 --> 02:08:49.539
suck one of these systems out and then it can operate again

02:08:49.539 --> 02:08:51.439
until the next cycle period.

02:08:51.439 --> 02:08:54.390
And so what we're trying to do is to improve what's

02:08:54.390 --> 02:08:57.640
visually there as well as what we can't see which is the

02:08:57.640 --> 02:09:01.439
birds and the bees and the bacterias and all those things.

02:09:01.439 --> 02:09:04.159
It seems like then that the critical thing is placement of

02:09:04.159 --> 02:09:06.710
these two and we're not really going to know that until

02:09:06.710 --> 02:09:09.439
most of the construction is done, is that correct?

02:09:09.439 --> 02:09:12.220
Well, the placement of those things is going to be to, and

02:09:12.220 --> 02:09:15.000
it was identified in our presentation to staff in our write

02:09:15.000 --> 02:09:17.729
-up, is that we're going to treat the runoff from the road

02:09:17.729 --> 02:09:20.420
segments that drain towards the ESA and then also the pad

02:09:20.420 --> 02:09:22.439
sites that drain towards the CSA.

02:09:22.439 --> 02:09:25.340
So what we're doing is we're effectively removing those

02:09:25.340 --> 02:09:28.439
areas that currently would be contributing water to the ESA

02:09:28.439 --> 02:09:31.369
and providing it into the environment in a controlled,

02:09:31.369 --> 02:09:32.439
clean manner.

02:09:32.439 --> 02:09:33.439
Okay. Thank you.

02:09:33.439 --> 02:09:35.439
Yes, sir.

02:09:35.439 --> 02:09:37.439
Commissioner Hadsbeth.

02:09:37.439 --> 02:09:38.439
Thank you, Chair.

02:09:38.439 --> 02:09:43.439
I appreciate your insight and your specific delivery.

02:09:43.439 --> 02:09:46.439
It makes it easy for me to process.

02:09:46.439 --> 02:09:52.289
Do you have a site for the statistic with respect to the

02:09:52.289 --> 02:09:54.439
100 feet?

02:09:54.439 --> 02:09:59.750
That first 100 feet you mentioned, most of the filtration

02:09:59.750 --> 02:10:04.439
happens within that first 100 feet.

02:10:04.439 --> 02:10:06.439
Is there a specific study you're relying on?

02:10:06.439 --> 02:10:08.439
Where does that number come from?

02:10:08.439 --> 02:10:09.439
I'm just curious.

02:10:09.439 --> 02:10:12.159
That number, there's several research studies, and it's not

02:10:12.159 --> 02:10:13.439
necessarily 100.

02:10:13.439 --> 02:10:15.670
It depends on the geometry of the channel section as well

02:10:15.670 --> 02:10:17.439
as the hydraulics that are coming down.

02:10:17.439 --> 02:10:19.449
I was just trying to throw out information that you're

02:10:19.449 --> 02:10:21.630
getting a majority of your treatment in the first segment

02:10:21.630 --> 02:10:22.439
of the channel.

02:10:22.439 --> 02:10:23.439
Okay.

02:10:23.439 --> 02:10:25.939
I don't have any of my notes with me to tell you what study

02:10:25.939 --> 02:10:28.340
I'm pulling that from, just from what I've read over

02:10:28.340 --> 02:10:30.439
technical manuals and stuff in the past.

02:10:30.439 --> 02:10:31.439
Okay.

02:10:31.439 --> 02:10:34.439
And on the same lines.

02:10:34.439 --> 02:10:38.140
Obviously, we're going to -- I'm going to try to

02:10:38.140 --> 02:10:41.439
acknowledge the elephant in the room.

02:10:41.439 --> 02:10:45.439
Can you speak to what studies have been done?

02:10:45.439 --> 02:10:48.340
Obviously, this area has been looked at and you've

02:10:48.340 --> 02:10:51.439
developed a plan on how to least impact this area.

02:10:51.439 --> 02:10:55.989
What steps have been taken to identify this particular road

02:10:55.989 --> 02:10:58.439
or this particular segment?

02:10:58.439 --> 02:11:02.689
I know you've touched on some of the decisions made in the

02:11:02.689 --> 02:11:06.819
placement, but with respect to the keeping the area

02:11:06.819 --> 02:11:09.439
preserved as best as possible,

02:11:09.439 --> 02:11:12.449
have you done any research or have, and I say not you

02:11:12.449 --> 02:11:16.810
specifically, but Buc-E's or the organization done any

02:11:16.810 --> 02:11:22.970
study specifically on how to lessen the impact or anything

02:11:22.970 --> 02:11:26.439
along those lines?

02:11:26.439 --> 02:11:29.949
I'm not sure exactly what the question is, but we've looked

02:11:29.949 --> 02:11:33.460
at other opportunities and other placements for crossings

02:11:33.460 --> 02:11:35.439
in order to provide developable lots

02:11:35.439 --> 02:11:39.159
and to provide the necessary spacings for our patrons

02:11:39.159 --> 02:11:42.439
around us and our neighbors to the back of us.

02:11:42.439 --> 02:11:44.529
This was the ideal location in order to facilitate

02:11:44.529 --> 02:11:47.529
connecting with the existing right-of-way and providing an

02:11:47.529 --> 02:11:51.510
interconnecting route to avoid transportation issues with

02:11:51.510 --> 02:11:52.439
textiles.

02:11:52.439 --> 02:11:55.100
As it relates to the environmental, we just looked for a

02:11:55.100 --> 02:11:58.439
narrow section with the fewest amount of trees that aligned

02:11:58.439 --> 02:12:01.750
with those projections of keeping our traffic at a safe

02:12:01.750 --> 02:12:03.439
distance for our textile connection,

02:12:03.439 --> 02:12:06.869
as well as providing an opportunity for the utility cross

02:12:06.869 --> 02:12:07.439
ings.

02:12:07.439 --> 02:12:10.949
So all of those elements played into where we laid things

02:12:10.949 --> 02:12:11.439
out.

02:12:11.439 --> 02:12:17.100
And one last thing for me. So, and is it, my understanding

02:12:17.100 --> 02:12:22.689
is with the bridge extending Brinker, that will alleviate

02:12:22.689 --> 02:12:26.909
some of the issue with the southbound traffic on that

02:12:26.909 --> 02:12:28.439
service road, the need to cut across.

02:12:28.439 --> 02:12:32.859
Because traditionally in my mind if I look at it now,

02:12:32.859 --> 02:12:37.680
someone would go north on the service road, make a U-turn

02:12:37.680 --> 02:12:41.439
at Loop 288, and then come there.

02:12:41.439 --> 02:12:44.619
Or I just don't think that that's going to be a big issue

02:12:44.619 --> 02:12:48.310
because if you're coming south on I-35, you'll have signage

02:12:48.310 --> 02:12:50.439
, you'll exit in advance of that.

02:12:50.439 --> 02:12:54.840
And if you do miss it, then there's Brinker to kind of come

02:12:54.840 --> 02:12:58.729
back around and get there that way versus trying to

02:12:58.729 --> 02:13:03.279
navigate the whatever text dot exit and obstructions they

02:13:03.279 --> 02:13:05.439
're going to put there.

02:13:05.439 --> 02:13:09.109
Yeah, as it relates to entering traffic on that northern

02:13:09.109 --> 02:13:12.460
connection point, it will primarily be exiting traffic

02:13:12.460 --> 02:13:15.560
because you're able to get out before the exit ramp, which

02:13:15.560 --> 02:13:16.890
is everybody's coming off the exit ramps, you're able to

02:13:16.890 --> 02:13:19.439
get off the slower traffic down the frontage road.

02:13:19.439 --> 02:13:21.439
So it provides an easier exit point.

02:13:21.439 --> 02:13:23.439
Okay. Thank you.

02:13:23.439 --> 02:13:24.439
Yes, sir.

02:13:24.439 --> 02:13:25.439
Commissioner Bergman.

02:13:25.439 --> 02:13:27.439
Thank you, Chair.

02:13:27.439 --> 02:13:29.439
I forgot to ask a question about the storm scepters again.

02:13:29.439 --> 02:13:30.439
Sure.

02:13:30.439 --> 02:13:32.439
We were talking about a maintenance plan.

02:13:32.439 --> 02:13:34.439
These, you know, things break.

02:13:34.439 --> 02:13:37.979
So how do we know that these are going to be maintained to

02:13:37.979 --> 02:13:41.289
make sure that the water quality is as clean as it can

02:13:41.289 --> 02:13:42.439
possibly be?

02:13:42.439 --> 02:13:45.560
There's twofold. Part of the requirement with the city is

02:13:45.560 --> 02:13:48.300
that we're going to have to provide a plan for regular

02:13:48.300 --> 02:13:50.439
maintenance for those facilities.

02:13:50.439 --> 02:13:56.300
And also as, you know, as development comes online, we'll

02:13:56.300 --> 02:13:59.300
be able to gauge, okay, we pumped out five feet of sediment

02:13:59.300 --> 02:14:02.090
this week and then next week it's six and, well, okay, we

02:14:02.090 --> 02:14:04.880
need to pump it more regularly, those sort of things, in

02:14:04.880 --> 02:14:08.439
order to keep it within the manufacturer's recommended load

02:14:08.439 --> 02:14:10.439
that it can carry inside the belly of it, if you will.

02:14:10.439 --> 02:14:14.199
And so we'll be able to, you know, kind of guess without

02:14:14.199 --> 02:14:18.350
anybody built and kind of say, okay, let's start with every

02:14:18.350 --> 02:14:21.439
other month and see what the loads look like.

02:14:21.439 --> 02:14:24.420
And then as we progress, we may have to adjust that time

02:14:24.420 --> 02:14:27.430
frame in order to keep that system so it functions at the

02:14:27.430 --> 02:14:29.439
manufacturer's specified rate.

02:14:29.439 --> 02:14:32.439
Is there a checks and balances system in place?

02:14:32.439 --> 02:14:35.710
We're putting all of the proof that these things are

02:14:35.710 --> 02:14:38.439
working on the property owner, right?

02:14:38.439 --> 02:14:42.000
Is there, maybe this is a question for staff, is there a

02:14:42.000 --> 02:14:45.079
way that the city can go out and inspect that this

02:14:45.079 --> 02:14:48.439
maintenance plan is actually being adhered to?

02:14:48.439 --> 02:14:51.060
That these things are actually working and we're, I'd like

02:14:51.060 --> 02:14:53.500
to take your word for it, I would, but I just want to make

02:14:53.500 --> 02:14:57.689
sure, you know, how do we know that this is what they say

02:14:57.689 --> 02:14:58.439
it is?

02:14:58.439 --> 02:15:01.439
I'll call on Menal to answer that.

02:15:01.439 --> 02:15:08.859
Thank you. Commissioner Bruegel, I'm actually going to ask

02:15:08.859 --> 02:15:09.359
Deborah to step down and explain what measures we have in

02:15:09.359 --> 02:15:13.640
place to ensure that these storm sceptres are indeed in

02:15:13.640 --> 02:15:19.439
working condition and are maintained.

02:15:19.439 --> 02:15:22.239
Because this is going to be a private infrastructure,

02:15:22.239 --> 02:15:25.329
privately maintained, the burden of the maintenance would

02:15:25.329 --> 02:15:27.439
remain on the property owner, okay?

02:15:27.439 --> 02:15:32.159
If by any chance there's evidence that those storm sceptres

02:15:32.159 --> 02:15:36.060
are failing in treatment, we will see some indications of

02:15:36.060 --> 02:15:36.439
it.

02:15:36.439 --> 02:15:40.670
And then we will be able to go back to who is retaining the

02:15:40.670 --> 02:15:43.439
control over those storm sceptres.

02:15:43.439 --> 02:15:46.159
At this point, I'm not sure if that would be Bucky's or

02:15:46.159 --> 02:15:49.060
that would be some sort of business association that that

02:15:49.060 --> 02:15:51.439
might put together between the parcels and bucking

02:15:51.439 --> 02:15:51.439
themselves.

02:15:51.439 --> 02:15:54.930
But whatever mechanism they put, then we will go back to

02:15:54.930 --> 02:15:57.439
them and say, hey, this is failing.

02:15:57.439 --> 02:16:01.340
You need to take care because you are out of compliance of

02:16:01.340 --> 02:16:03.439
the alternative ESA plan.

02:16:03.439 --> 02:16:07.109
If they decide not to respond, then the city will have the

02:16:07.109 --> 02:16:10.760
ability to step in, do whatever maintenance needs to be

02:16:10.760 --> 02:16:14.619
done to either replace it or clean it, whatever is needed,

02:16:14.619 --> 02:16:15.439
at the cost.

02:16:15.439 --> 02:16:17.649
And we will pass the cost to the owner or the business

02:16:17.649 --> 02:16:18.439
association.

02:16:18.439 --> 02:16:22.439
It's very similar to what we have for Razor Ranch.

02:16:22.439 --> 02:16:25.949
Could you give me some examples, please, of what you would

02:16:25.949 --> 02:16:28.439
see should these storm sceptres fail?

02:16:28.439 --> 02:16:31.439
And at what point would you be seeing these things pop up?

02:16:31.439 --> 02:16:36.040
Well, most of the time you start seeing it is an encaps

02:16:36.040 --> 02:16:37.440
ulated site.

02:16:37.440 --> 02:16:42.139
And if we, for example, if we start seeing where those eff

02:16:42.139 --> 02:16:46.719
luent comes out of the storm scepter, if we start seeing a

02:16:46.719 --> 02:16:52.440
lot of debris accumulated there because it's overflowing,

02:16:52.440 --> 02:16:56.200
there will be a physical indication for us that we need to

02:16:56.200 --> 02:16:57.440
look into this.

02:16:57.440 --> 02:16:59.989
And is there a city inspector that would go out and look at

02:16:59.989 --> 02:17:00.440
this?

02:17:00.440 --> 02:17:03.739
That would be something that the Water Shield Protection as

02:17:03.739 --> 02:17:06.440
a part would be something that we would call.

02:17:06.440 --> 02:17:09.440
We have a stormwater inspectors in the city of Denton.

02:17:09.440 --> 02:17:13.450
And from time to time we get phone calls about complaints,

02:17:13.450 --> 02:17:15.440
about things not working properly.

02:17:15.440 --> 02:17:18.709
At that time, either it is right through the code

02:17:18.709 --> 02:17:21.969
enforcement department and code enforcement will contact

02:17:21.969 --> 02:17:22.440
Watershed,

02:17:22.440 --> 02:17:26.420
or it will be a phone call that we receive and then we will

02:17:26.420 --> 02:17:27.440
go to the site.

02:17:27.440 --> 02:17:30.440
And then we start looking into what options we have.

02:17:30.440 --> 02:17:33.979
Either contact the owner for them to take the initial step,

02:17:33.979 --> 02:17:37.440
or if there's no response, then the city will step in.

02:17:37.440 --> 02:17:41.620
So it's first the inspection happens after a complaint is

02:17:41.620 --> 02:17:43.440
called into the city?

02:17:43.440 --> 02:17:44.440
Do I understand that right?

02:17:44.440 --> 02:17:48.440
Most of the time we don't have eyes everywhere.

02:17:48.440 --> 02:17:52.719
And most of the time the residents are our best alarm sim

02:17:52.719 --> 02:17:53.440
ster.

02:17:53.440 --> 02:17:56.500
But if I may, I would imagine that a business model like B

02:17:56.500 --> 02:17:59.719
uckeyes is probably going to be attracting people from out

02:17:59.719 --> 02:18:00.440
of town.

02:18:00.440 --> 02:18:02.440
There would be some locals, right?

02:18:02.440 --> 02:18:05.909
But this is a pit stop along your way to Oklahoma City or

02:18:05.909 --> 02:18:07.440
Dallas or whatnot.

02:18:07.440 --> 02:18:13.680
So the out of towners wouldn't think to, I mean, who's

02:18:13.680 --> 02:18:15.979
going to take time to look up the city inspector when they

02:18:15.979 --> 02:18:18.440
're trying to get up to Grandma's house?

02:18:18.440 --> 02:18:21.979
Yeah, the transient population would probably not take care

02:18:21.979 --> 02:18:26.790
because they don't have the time to look it up, a phone

02:18:26.790 --> 02:18:28.440
number, so when they're just on the way.

02:18:28.440 --> 02:18:33.020
But it is amazing what residents of Denton take pride on on

02:18:33.020 --> 02:18:34.440
their stream.

02:18:34.440 --> 02:18:37.420
And when they see something that they don't look that is

02:18:37.420 --> 02:18:39.440
normal, they really contact us.

02:18:39.440 --> 02:18:43.639
So we receive, we have a hotline, the water shore

02:18:43.639 --> 02:18:48.340
protection where people actually can call us and we will

02:18:48.340 --> 02:18:49.440
respond.

02:18:49.440 --> 02:18:55.290
So I think that for our experience as a staff, when we get

02:18:55.290 --> 02:18:59.670
a complaint or some sort of indication, we go out from time

02:18:59.670 --> 02:19:00.440
to time.

02:19:00.440 --> 02:19:04.440
We walk our streams as a part of our monetary programs.

02:19:04.440 --> 02:19:09.719
If we see something that is not as it should be, then we

02:19:09.719 --> 02:19:11.860
will start looking and trying to find the source of the

02:19:11.860 --> 02:19:12.440
problem.

02:19:12.440 --> 02:19:15.090
At that time, we will also go back to the whoever's

02:19:15.090 --> 02:19:17.440
retaining ownership of those devices.

02:19:17.440 --> 02:19:21.450
So it is a combination of when we are boots in the ground

02:19:21.450 --> 02:19:25.520
and when a resident make a phone call and we will respond

02:19:25.520 --> 02:19:26.440
to that.

02:19:26.440 --> 02:19:29.440
I think staff has a comment as well.

02:19:29.440 --> 02:19:32.680
Correct me if I'm wrong, Deborah, but would we not also

02:19:32.680 --> 02:19:36.200
require quarterly or annual reporting of the functionality

02:19:36.200 --> 02:19:36.440
of?

02:19:36.440 --> 02:19:38.440
We could.

02:19:38.440 --> 02:19:41.309
Something similar that we have done with Razor Ranch is

02:19:41.309 --> 02:19:44.440
that they supposed to do inspections on a regular basis.

02:19:44.440 --> 02:19:47.500
Most of this device is the manufacturer have put a

02:19:47.500 --> 02:19:50.879
maintenance program already and say this needs to be

02:19:50.879 --> 02:19:52.440
cleaned this often.

02:19:52.440 --> 02:19:58.200
And so on to maintain the effectiveness of the device

02:19:58.200 --> 02:19:59.440
itself.

02:19:59.440 --> 02:20:02.469
So probably they will get an indication from the

02:20:02.469 --> 02:20:05.440
manufacturer how often it needs to be done.

02:20:05.440 --> 02:20:10.149
If necessary, we can put something like we did in Razor

02:20:10.149 --> 02:20:15.319
Ranch where we put actually a reporting schedule where once

02:20:15.319 --> 02:20:19.440
a year you provide a copy of your inspection.

02:20:19.440 --> 02:20:24.020
Because most of the time there are maintenance activity

02:20:24.020 --> 02:20:28.340
that requires less activity and then on an annual basis

02:20:28.340 --> 02:20:31.440
that inspection will be more involved.

02:20:31.440 --> 02:20:35.110
So we can actually require some sort of reporting back to

02:20:35.110 --> 02:20:36.440
us if necessary.

02:20:36.440 --> 02:20:39.100
So those parameters could be inserted into the ordinance

02:20:39.100 --> 02:20:41.440
with the alternative so should it be approved?

02:20:41.440 --> 02:20:44.209
And that would be something similar to what Razor Ranch did

02:20:44.209 --> 02:20:44.440
.

02:20:44.440 --> 02:20:45.440
Correct.

02:20:45.440 --> 02:20:47.440
Thank you, Deborah.

02:20:47.440 --> 02:20:49.440
Thank you.

02:20:49.440 --> 02:20:50.440
I have one other.

02:20:50.440 --> 02:20:52.440
Commissioner Dadovitz.

02:20:52.440 --> 02:20:55.100
I didn't want her to go away because my question may be

02:20:55.100 --> 02:20:57.440
answered by you or Mr. Peterson.

02:20:57.440 --> 02:21:02.389
According to the plan, we're going to put two of these

02:21:02.389 --> 02:21:04.440
storm scepters in.

02:21:04.440 --> 02:21:05.440
Why two?

02:21:05.440 --> 02:21:07.840
And tell us how large these things are so we can get a

02:21:07.840 --> 02:21:11.079
perspective of the dimension and are they capable of

02:21:11.079 --> 02:21:14.440
handling what we're seeing or suggesting?

02:21:14.440 --> 02:21:21.100
The systems are designed with a, I think Deborah's program

02:21:21.100 --> 02:21:23.440
later has more information on it.

02:21:23.440 --> 02:21:24.440
Are you going to show that?

02:21:24.440 --> 02:21:27.440
Show your example of how the system works?

02:21:27.440 --> 02:21:28.440
On the animation?

02:21:28.440 --> 02:21:29.440
Yeah.

02:21:29.440 --> 02:21:30.440
We could.

02:21:30.440 --> 02:21:31.440
No, we've seen that.

02:21:31.440 --> 02:21:34.659
My question is why two and what is the size of these storm

02:21:34.659 --> 02:21:35.440
scepters?

02:21:35.440 --> 02:21:36.440
Why two?

02:21:36.440 --> 02:21:37.440
Is it four by four?

02:21:37.440 --> 02:21:38.440
Is it 18 by 20?

02:21:38.440 --> 02:21:39.440
I need a visual.

02:21:39.440 --> 02:21:42.440
They are, the ones we're proposing are big cylinders.

02:21:42.440 --> 02:21:45.719
They're about six foot in diameter and they range in size

02:21:45.719 --> 02:21:49.770
from, depending on how much storage volume you want, they

02:21:49.770 --> 02:21:52.440
go deeper because it's basically a wet well.

02:21:52.440 --> 02:21:55.659
And so you go deeper in order to provide that volume that

02:21:55.659 --> 02:21:56.440
you need.

02:21:56.440 --> 02:21:58.440
That exact volume depth has not been determined yet.

02:21:58.440 --> 02:22:00.440
We're still working on the plans.

02:22:00.440 --> 02:22:04.399
And so what we're providing, what we're proposing too is

02:22:04.399 --> 02:22:08.479
because we are trying to minimize the disturbance of water

02:22:08.479 --> 02:22:12.540
's crossing or getting into the creek from both sides of the

02:22:12.540 --> 02:22:13.440
creek.

02:22:13.440 --> 02:22:15.389
So we've got one on either side of the creek in order to

02:22:15.389 --> 02:22:17.440
treat the left side and the right side of the creek.

02:22:17.440 --> 02:22:20.719
That way we don't have any water introducing into the creek

02:22:20.719 --> 02:22:23.440
before it goes through one of these devices.

02:22:23.440 --> 02:22:30.440
Now who's determined if two are enough versus three, four?

02:22:30.440 --> 02:22:33.500
Those devices come in different sizes depending on the

02:22:33.500 --> 02:22:35.440
volume that they want to treat.

02:22:35.440 --> 02:22:39.670
Okay, the larger the volume, the larger the device, the

02:22:39.670 --> 02:22:41.440
more expensive it is.

02:22:41.440 --> 02:22:46.700
They have systems where if necessary they can put multiples

02:22:46.700 --> 02:22:51.440
in line, like an in line system, a series system.

02:22:51.440 --> 02:22:54.809
At this point I don't think that will be necessary based on

02:22:54.809 --> 02:22:58.440
the drainage area that these devices will be collecting.

02:22:58.440 --> 02:23:02.000
However, during the final plan is when we start looking

02:23:02.000 --> 02:23:06.670
into all the drainage information, grading, runoff and all

02:23:06.670 --> 02:23:07.440
that.

02:23:07.440 --> 02:23:11.690
At that point, staff and the applicant will be better

02:23:11.690 --> 02:23:15.440
suited to determine the size of the devices.

02:23:15.440 --> 02:23:19.440
Thank you.

02:23:19.440 --> 02:23:21.440
Commissioner Beck.

02:23:21.440 --> 02:23:22.440
One last question here.

02:23:22.440 --> 02:23:23.440
Yes, sir.

02:23:23.440 --> 02:23:28.940
We had mentioned the impact that these 100-year rainfalls

02:23:28.940 --> 02:23:30.440
will have on this.

02:23:30.440 --> 02:23:33.719
And I'm not sure that they're going to be that infrequent

02:23:33.719 --> 02:23:34.440
anymore.

02:23:34.440 --> 02:23:36.440
We seem to get them more often.

02:23:36.440 --> 02:23:40.360
Is there, are there any types of heavy rainfalls like that

02:23:40.360 --> 02:23:43.440
that can overwhelm these storm scepters?

02:23:43.440 --> 02:23:46.440
What can't they handle?

02:23:46.440 --> 02:23:48.440
They can handle just about everything.

02:23:48.440 --> 02:23:52.110
The way the system works, though, is once you get above the

02:23:52.110 --> 02:23:56.030
desired treat volume, it starts to bypass the majority of

02:23:56.030 --> 02:23:58.440
the flows and only take the heavy solids out.

02:23:58.440 --> 02:24:02.559
And so the cyclone effect, the whirlpool as it will, is

02:24:02.559 --> 02:24:06.899
going to draw down your heavy solids and your soils and all

02:24:06.899 --> 02:24:08.440
the large contaminants.

02:24:08.440 --> 02:24:11.030
And the water during these large events will be able to

02:24:11.030 --> 02:24:12.440
pass through the system.

02:24:12.440 --> 02:24:15.440
So it doesn't necessarily create a bottleneck.

02:24:15.440 --> 02:24:20.440
It just is, it loses its efficiency than the larger events.

02:24:20.440 --> 02:24:21.440
It loses its efficiency.

02:24:21.440 --> 02:24:23.440
Yes, sir.

02:24:23.440 --> 02:24:26.040
All these things are curvilinear based upon what you're

02:24:26.040 --> 02:24:28.819
trying to treat and the allowable volume coming through the

02:24:28.819 --> 02:24:29.440
system.

02:24:29.440 --> 02:24:30.440
Okay.

02:24:30.440 --> 02:24:31.440
Okay.

02:24:31.440 --> 02:24:32.440
Thanks.

02:24:32.440 --> 02:24:34.440
I have no further questions.

02:24:34.440 --> 02:24:35.440
On the board.

02:24:35.440 --> 02:24:36.440
Thank you.

02:24:36.440 --> 02:24:46.659
At this time, we will call on Julie Wyatt for the staff

02:24:46.659 --> 02:24:52.440
presentation on this item.

02:24:52.440 --> 02:24:54.440
I'm just going to provide a summary to you.

02:24:54.440 --> 02:24:55.440
It's not quite one slide.

02:24:55.440 --> 02:25:02.440
It's a few slides, but I'll try to be quick about it.

02:25:02.440 --> 02:25:05.440
Okay.

02:25:05.440 --> 02:25:09.969
So this is an alternative development plan 16-2 for Buckeye

02:25:09.969 --> 02:25:11.440
's Travel Center.

02:25:11.440 --> 02:25:14.780
A summary of the request is the request before you is to

02:25:14.780 --> 02:25:18.459
consider an alternative environmentally sensitive area plan

02:25:18.459 --> 02:25:21.540
to allow for commercial development to encroach into an

02:25:21.540 --> 02:25:24.440
existing ESA, environmentally sensitive area.

02:25:24.440 --> 02:25:30.670
The disturbance would include approximately 13,134 square

02:25:30.670 --> 02:25:35.360
feet of riparian habitat that would be impacted due to an

02:25:35.360 --> 02:25:40.440
internal road system that is proposed by the applicant.

02:25:40.440 --> 02:25:47.440
Within that riparian buffer, 24 trees would be removed.

02:25:47.440 --> 02:25:51.930
Those existing trees provide 10,087 square feet of tree

02:25:51.930 --> 02:25:55.440
canopy, which totals 311 caliper inches.

02:25:55.440 --> 02:26:00.440
The zoning of the property is RCCD.

02:26:00.440 --> 02:26:05.540
The mitigation that is proposed by the applicant in order

02:26:05.540 --> 02:26:10.729
to offset the impacts of the riparian buffer is to preserve

02:26:10.729 --> 02:26:16.940
approximately 3,149 square feet of upland habitat that's

02:26:16.940 --> 02:26:19.440
adjacent to the existing riparian buffer.

02:26:19.440 --> 02:26:24.280
Within that upland habitat, preserve 10 existing trees and

02:26:24.280 --> 02:26:28.319
also plant eight additional trees to increase the tree

02:26:28.319 --> 02:26:32.969
canopy, although the caliper inches will be smaller because

02:26:32.969 --> 02:26:35.440
of the new trees would be spread out.

02:26:35.440 --> 02:26:38.270
They would be allowed to reach their maximum height and

02:26:38.270 --> 02:26:39.440
canopy potential.

02:26:39.440 --> 02:26:42.870
So there would be an additional canopy, although there

02:26:42.870 --> 02:26:44.440
would be fewer trees.

02:26:44.440 --> 02:26:48.450
And also to add two storm scepters to treat the runoff,

02:26:48.450 --> 02:26:51.440
which I think you all have discussed.

02:26:51.440 --> 02:26:55.149
So I just want to go over the recommendation that staff has

02:26:55.149 --> 02:26:59.110
based upon the criteria for approval in subchapter 17 of

02:26:59.110 --> 02:27:01.440
the Denton Development Code.

02:27:01.440 --> 02:27:04.840
Staff does recommend approval of the request subject to the

02:27:04.840 --> 02:27:06.440
following conditions.

02:27:06.440 --> 02:27:09.040
And I believe this condition was left off in the work

02:27:09.040 --> 02:27:11.440
session, so I hurried in here and put it on.

02:27:11.440 --> 02:27:15.299
So the first condition, it's in your backup, is that an

02:27:15.299 --> 02:27:19.950
area equal to or greater than 13,149 square feet shall be

02:27:19.950 --> 02:27:23.670
preserved in accordance with the ESA mitigation plan that's

02:27:23.670 --> 02:27:25.440
provided in your backup.

02:27:25.440 --> 02:27:29.110
No land disturbing activity as defined by the Denton

02:27:29.110 --> 02:27:33.440
Development Code is permitted in this area to be preserved.

02:27:33.440 --> 02:27:37.159
Within that preservation area and directly adjacent to it,

02:27:37.159 --> 02:27:40.659
eight trees must be planted for the removal of the trees in

02:27:40.659 --> 02:27:41.440
the ESA.

02:27:41.440 --> 02:27:44.020
Each tree must be a large tree from the landscape plant

02:27:44.020 --> 02:27:47.440
list, and that is from the City of Denton's plant list.

02:27:47.440 --> 02:27:51.750
And the canopy size is 1256 square feet and a minimum of

02:27:51.750 --> 02:27:54.440
two inches in diameter at planting.

02:27:54.440 --> 02:27:56.950
The planted trees must be irrigated for a minimum of three

02:27:56.950 --> 02:27:57.440
years.

02:27:57.440 --> 02:28:00.500
If any tree that is planted is a part of this alternative E

02:28:00.500 --> 02:28:03.670
SA plan dies, that tree must be immediately removed and

02:28:03.670 --> 02:28:06.799
replaced with a large tree within the appropriate planting

02:28:06.799 --> 02:28:07.440
season.

02:28:07.440 --> 02:28:10.260
So for instance, if it dies in August, August may not be

02:28:10.260 --> 02:28:13.200
the best time for that tree to be planted, usually the

02:28:13.200 --> 02:28:15.440
cooler months are better times.

02:28:15.440 --> 02:28:18.850
So there could be a lag there, but that was the intent of

02:28:18.850 --> 02:28:19.440
that.

02:28:19.440 --> 02:28:22.040
And that the ESA mitigation trees are in addition to the

02:28:22.040 --> 02:28:24.879
percentage of tree canopy required by the governing zoning

02:28:24.879 --> 02:28:25.440
district.

02:28:25.440 --> 02:28:28.200
And that was really important to staff that we wanted to

02:28:28.200 --> 02:28:30.950
make sure this was in addition to what would be required

02:28:30.950 --> 02:28:32.440
for the zoning district.

02:28:32.440 --> 02:28:35.450
Two storm scepters shall be installed according to the

02:28:35.450 --> 02:28:39.010
manufacturer's recommendations in size for obtaining a

02:28:39.010 --> 02:28:42.729
minimum pollutant removal efficiencies recommended by the I

02:28:42.729 --> 02:28:44.440
-SWIM specifications.

02:28:44.440 --> 02:28:48.219
The sizing and location would be determined at the final

02:28:48.219 --> 02:28:52.440
plat stage of development due to the runoff calculations.

02:28:52.440 --> 02:28:55.409
And all water quality protection facilities shall be

02:28:55.409 --> 02:28:58.559
maintained by the property owner or maintenance entity

02:28:58.559 --> 02:29:00.440
established for that purpose.

02:29:00.440 --> 02:29:02.840
A description of the maintenance tasks, frequency of

02:29:02.840 --> 02:29:05.590
maintenance, responsible parties for maintenance, funding

02:29:05.590 --> 02:29:09.219
access, etc. shall be provided during the final plat stage

02:29:09.219 --> 02:29:10.440
of development.

02:29:10.440 --> 02:29:13.389
And then finally, where chronic or severe problems exist,

02:29:13.389 --> 02:29:15.469
the owner does not, and the owner does not provide

02:29:15.469 --> 02:29:18.100
maintenance or repairs, the city of Denton would have the

02:29:18.100 --> 02:29:18.440
right.

02:29:18.440 --> 02:29:21.670
But not the obligation to remedy the situation and recover

02:29:21.670 --> 02:29:24.440
the cost for the work from that property owner.

02:29:24.440 --> 02:29:29.440
And this authority would be established at the final plat.

02:29:29.440 --> 02:29:34.440
And I'll stand for any questions.

02:29:34.440 --> 02:29:35.440
Commissioner Rossell.

02:29:35.440 --> 02:29:37.440
Thank you, Chair.

02:29:37.440 --> 02:29:40.579
Can I get a clarification on, excuse me, the staff

02:29:40.579 --> 02:29:42.440
recommendation point number two?

02:29:42.440 --> 02:29:46.329
Should there not be a geographical definition of where

02:29:46.329 --> 02:29:48.440
those eight trees belong?

02:29:48.440 --> 02:29:49.440
Well, we discussed that.

02:29:49.440 --> 02:29:53.540
And that was initially the way we wanted to go because we

02:29:53.540 --> 02:29:57.440
thought here's a mitigation preservation area.

02:29:57.440 --> 02:29:59.440
All of them should go in there.

02:29:59.440 --> 02:30:05.559
But then in looking at, because the existing riparian

02:30:05.559 --> 02:30:09.440
buffer has trees that are clustered very close together,

02:30:09.440 --> 02:30:12.719
they can't reach their maximum potential of canopy and

02:30:12.719 --> 02:30:13.440
height.

02:30:13.440 --> 02:30:18.229
So, you know, taking that cue, we thought, okay, let's get

02:30:18.229 --> 02:30:20.440
the canopy we need to get.

02:30:20.440 --> 02:30:24.889
But let's provide a little bit of flexibility on where

02:30:24.889 --> 02:30:27.440
those trees are going to go.

02:30:27.440 --> 02:30:29.440
They need to go around this area.

02:30:29.440 --> 02:30:32.600
But let's give a little flexibility on the exact location

02:30:32.600 --> 02:30:35.909
of those trees to make sure they are planted in an optimal

02:30:35.909 --> 02:30:38.440
location so that they can reach their maximum height

02:30:38.440 --> 02:30:40.440
and canopy.

02:30:40.440 --> 02:30:41.440
Sure.

02:30:41.440 --> 02:30:45.979
I just wonder if it would be appropriate to maybe put

02:30:45.979 --> 02:30:49.440
within or near the marked location.

02:30:49.440 --> 02:30:52.379
That's certainly something that you could add within your

02:30:52.379 --> 02:30:53.440
recommendation.

02:30:53.440 --> 02:30:55.440
Thank you.

02:30:55.440 --> 02:30:57.440
Commissioner Bruegel.

02:30:57.440 --> 02:30:58.440
Thank you, Chair.

02:30:58.440 --> 02:31:00.440
I know Commissioner Taylor was trying to ring in.

02:31:00.440 --> 02:31:01.440
No?

02:31:01.440 --> 02:31:02.440
Okay.

02:31:02.440 --> 02:31:03.440
Well, no, it's fine.

02:31:03.440 --> 02:31:05.010
I just wanted to see the concept plan again because unless

02:31:05.010 --> 02:31:06.440
I missed it, I didn't see that in our backup.

02:31:06.440 --> 02:31:08.440
And I wanted to look at that one more time.

02:31:08.440 --> 02:31:10.149
And you can ask your question, Devon, while I'm looking at

02:31:10.149 --> 02:31:10.440
this.

02:31:10.440 --> 02:31:11.440
Is that cool?

02:31:11.440 --> 02:31:13.440
Oh, darn it.

02:31:13.440 --> 02:31:14.440
Okay.

02:31:14.440 --> 02:31:15.440
Hold on.

02:31:15.440 --> 02:31:17.440
Just give me a second.

02:31:17.440 --> 02:31:21.100
Are there -- so are there two -- there's -- on this, we see

02:31:21.100 --> 02:31:23.440
three entrance and exit points.

02:31:23.440 --> 02:31:24.440
Is that correct?

02:31:24.440 --> 02:31:25.440
Yes.

02:31:25.440 --> 02:31:26.440
Here, here.

02:31:26.440 --> 02:31:27.440
Once again, this is from last fall.

02:31:27.440 --> 02:31:28.440
This is the information I had then.

02:31:28.440 --> 02:31:35.440
So there could be changes.

02:31:35.440 --> 02:31:36.440
Okay.

02:31:36.440 --> 02:31:37.440
All right.

02:31:37.440 --> 02:31:38.440
Thank you.

02:31:38.440 --> 02:31:39.440
Sure.

02:31:39.440 --> 02:31:40.440
Commissioner Taylor.

02:31:40.440 --> 02:31:41.440
Thank you, Chair.

02:31:41.440 --> 02:31:43.690
So in the work session, you showed a table of the proposed

02:31:43.690 --> 02:31:44.440
mitigations.

02:31:44.440 --> 02:31:45.440
Could you bring that up?

02:31:45.440 --> 02:31:46.440
Sure.

02:31:46.440 --> 02:31:47.440
Is this it?

02:31:47.440 --> 02:31:48.440
Yeah, this is the one.

02:31:48.440 --> 02:31:52.319
So I was looking at this, and I believe there was a comment

02:31:52.319 --> 02:31:54.440
earlier that mitigating more

02:31:54.440 --> 02:31:56.440
area than we're disturbing.

02:31:56.440 --> 02:32:00.690
And I just wanted to point out that that's approximately 0.

02:32:00.690 --> 02:32:03.440
1% more area than we're disturbing.

02:32:03.440 --> 02:32:07.440
More area being mitigated than is being disturbed.

02:32:07.440 --> 02:32:12.200
And the 24 trees is being mitigated by 10 existing 8 two-

02:32:12.200 --> 02:32:14.440
inch trees will be planted.

02:32:14.440 --> 02:32:17.950
And this caliper inches, you know, it's -- we're reducing

02:32:17.950 --> 02:32:20.440
the caliper inches by, you know,

02:32:20.440 --> 02:32:22.440
a third or more.

02:32:22.440 --> 02:32:25.340
And then we have this really fun tree canopy calculation

02:32:25.340 --> 02:32:27.440
because we only have 13,000 square

02:32:27.440 --> 02:32:31.930
feet, but we're going to put 20,000 square feet of canopy

02:32:31.930 --> 02:32:32.440
in them because we're saying,

02:32:32.440 --> 02:32:38.420
when this tree gets full size, it'll have 1,200 or 1,600

02:32:38.420 --> 02:32:40.440
square feet of canopy.

02:32:40.440 --> 02:32:41.440
But that's --

02:32:41.440 --> 02:32:45.690
Well, and that -- and I think that speaks to, I think,

02:32:45.690 --> 02:32:48.440
Commissioner Roselle's comment that

02:32:48.440 --> 02:32:51.909
all of those trees aren't going to go specifically within

02:32:51.909 --> 02:32:54.440
that preservation area because they

02:32:54.440 --> 02:32:59.440
couldn't all fit and still meet their maximum potential.

02:32:59.440 --> 02:33:01.780
So they're going to be -- they aren't going to all fit

02:33:01.780 --> 02:33:03.440
within that preservation area.

02:33:03.440 --> 02:33:05.440
There may be some outside of it.

02:33:05.440 --> 02:33:07.760
So the canopy is actually -- the proposed canopy is

02:33:07.760 --> 02:33:09.440
actually bigger than the proposed

02:33:09.440 --> 02:33:12.440
mitigation area just due to that fact.

02:33:12.440 --> 02:33:14.440
And that would be at maturation.

02:33:14.440 --> 02:33:17.909
That would be in 40 or 50 years when the tree is 80 feet

02:33:17.909 --> 02:33:18.440
tall.

02:33:18.440 --> 02:33:21.440
So normally we see a few of these.

02:33:21.440 --> 02:33:25.379
And the one that comes to mind in this neighborhood was

02:33:25.379 --> 02:33:27.440
actually Unicorn Lake.

02:33:27.440 --> 02:33:29.979
And they had a similar situation they needed to put in a

02:33:29.979 --> 02:33:30.440
road.

02:33:30.440 --> 02:33:32.680
And their first proposal was about a three-to-one

02:33:32.680 --> 02:33:33.440
mitigation.

02:33:33.440 --> 02:33:36.850
So they were mitigating almost three times as much area as

02:33:36.850 --> 02:33:38.440
they were disturbing.

02:33:38.440 --> 02:33:41.840
You know, and a pretty common one, I think, is maybe a 50%

02:33:41.840 --> 02:33:43.440
additional mitigation.

02:33:43.440 --> 02:33:46.639
Was there any discussion with the applicant about

02:33:46.639 --> 02:33:51.440
preserving maybe a bank buffer along

02:33:51.440 --> 02:33:58.110
the lake or extending the mitigation area further southeast

02:33:58.110 --> 02:34:00.440
, you know, another 100 feet

02:34:00.440 --> 02:34:05.229
and adding another several -- you know, 1,000 square feet

02:34:05.229 --> 02:34:06.440
or something?

02:34:06.440 --> 02:34:08.440
We did have conversations.

02:34:08.440 --> 02:34:14.180
And because of their concept and their proposed development

02:34:14.180 --> 02:34:17.440
, they had limitations as to what

02:34:17.440 --> 02:34:21.639
they could preserve, which is why we talked to them about

02:34:21.639 --> 02:34:23.440
the green and gray solutions.

02:34:23.440 --> 02:34:27.409
Because we kind of looked at this as trying to use

02:34:27.409 --> 02:34:30.440
technology in order to mimic what a

02:34:30.440 --> 02:34:32.440
riparian buffer does.

02:34:32.440 --> 02:34:36.450
So we tried to look at it from that, not just the green,

02:34:36.450 --> 02:34:38.440
not just square footage, but what

02:34:38.440 --> 02:34:40.440
does it mean?

02:34:40.440 --> 02:34:45.239
And the storm scepters would work to facilitate to clean

02:34:45.239 --> 02:34:46.440
the water.

02:34:46.440 --> 02:34:54.659
>> So in this case, would the stormwater interception not

02:34:54.659 --> 02:34:58.440
be required except by this ESA?

02:34:58.440 --> 02:35:01.440
Like normally we would allow the parking lot to drain?

02:35:01.440 --> 02:35:02.440
>> No.

02:35:02.440 --> 02:35:03.440
>> Okay.

02:35:03.440 --> 02:35:05.440
That makes a little more sense.

02:35:05.440 --> 02:35:09.569
And I was also curious about -- right now I believe the

02:35:09.569 --> 02:35:12.440
plat has a 50-foot access easement,

02:35:12.440 --> 02:35:13.440
private road.

02:35:13.440 --> 02:35:14.440
>> I'm sorry.

02:35:14.440 --> 02:35:16.440
>> A 50-foot wide access easement?

02:35:16.440 --> 02:35:18.440
Is that the plan?

02:35:18.440 --> 02:35:19.440
>> Yes, sir.

02:35:19.440 --> 02:35:22.440
>> And it appears to have about a 32-foot wide roadway?

02:35:22.440 --> 02:35:26.299
Is that just by the schematic that's floated around, it's

02:35:26.299 --> 02:35:28.440
two lanes with the turn lane?

02:35:28.440 --> 02:35:31.090
>> You know, the engineer would probably be a better person

02:35:31.090 --> 02:35:32.440
to answer the exact because

02:35:32.440 --> 02:35:37.440
we're kind of looking at more just what's being dedicated.

02:35:37.440 --> 02:35:40.379
So he can probably talk to you better about what the design

02:35:40.379 --> 02:35:41.440
will be for that.

02:35:41.440 --> 02:35:42.440
>> Okay.

02:35:42.440 --> 02:35:44.440
And one final question I brought up in the work session.

02:35:44.440 --> 02:35:46.440
I just want to bring it up here.

02:35:46.440 --> 02:35:52.440
The -- there is a residential overlay protection on this.

02:35:52.440 --> 02:35:55.440
Could we zoom into that?

02:35:55.440 --> 02:35:57.440
>> Is that better?

02:35:57.440 --> 02:36:03.440
>> I think one of the ESA plan maps, I think, has it?

02:36:03.440 --> 02:36:04.440
>> Here we go.

02:36:04.440 --> 02:36:05.440
>> Here you go.

02:36:05.440 --> 02:36:06.440
>> Yes.

02:36:06.440 --> 02:36:10.569
>> For the overlay, there is a 50-foot landscape buffer

02:36:10.569 --> 02:36:15.440
that is required adjacent to the residential properties.

02:36:15.440 --> 02:36:19.100
This is, as you can see, it does go a little bit into that

02:36:19.100 --> 02:36:20.440
access easement.

02:36:20.440 --> 02:36:23.590
That access easement doesn't preclude them from meeting

02:36:23.590 --> 02:36:25.440
that ordinance requirement.

02:36:25.440 --> 02:36:27.670
>> So when you say that, you said access easement doesn't

02:36:27.670 --> 02:36:28.440
preclude them.

02:36:28.440 --> 02:36:30.440
Does pavement?

02:36:30.440 --> 02:36:32.440
>> They could not put pavement in that.

02:36:32.440 --> 02:36:34.440
They would have to have that -- meet that landscape buffer.

02:36:34.440 --> 02:36:36.930
So their road would have to be located within that access

02:36:36.930 --> 02:36:41.040
easement that still allows them to meet that buffer

02:36:41.040 --> 02:36:42.440
requirement.

02:36:42.440 --> 02:36:43.440
>> Yeah.

02:36:43.440 --> 02:36:46.829
So I look at this, and I wonder if we reduce -- if that

02:36:46.829 --> 02:36:51.059
access easement was reduced from 50 to roughly the size of

02:36:51.059 --> 02:36:53.440
the street, approximately 30 or 35,

02:36:53.440 --> 02:36:57.750
then there would -- you would gain a strip across the

02:36:57.750 --> 02:37:02.639
bottom several hundred feet wide, at least the width of --

02:37:02.639 --> 02:37:04.440
is that lot three? And some of lot two over there?

02:37:04.440 --> 02:37:12.440
So I'm not comfortable with the .1% additional mitigation.

02:37:12.440 --> 02:37:14.440
And I think there's some problems just with this layout.

02:37:14.440 --> 02:37:16.440
We know that road is going to have to move.

02:37:16.440 --> 02:37:19.500
When it moves, it's going to change the number of square

02:37:19.500 --> 02:37:21.440
feet that need to be mitigated.

02:37:21.440 --> 02:37:22.440
>> And that's a really good question.

02:37:22.440 --> 02:37:25.440
We discussed that with the applicant because, you know,

02:37:25.440 --> 02:37:30.360
because this is very early in the process, which is if you

02:37:30.360 --> 02:37:31.440
can see,

02:37:31.440 --> 02:37:34.110
the disturbance area that they're actually showing is

02:37:34.110 --> 02:37:36.879
impacted is much greater than what they're showing is the

02:37:36.879 --> 02:37:37.440
road.

02:37:37.440 --> 02:37:41.299
So they wanted to make sure that they compensated for that

02:37:41.299 --> 02:37:42.440
at this time.

02:37:42.440 --> 02:37:46.110
If it does change, it would be required to come back and

02:37:46.110 --> 02:37:48.440
get approval from city council.

02:37:48.440 --> 02:37:51.280
So that is something that we have discussed with them and

02:37:51.280 --> 02:37:54.440
they're aware of that if anything on the property changes,

02:37:54.440 --> 02:37:59.540
it goes outside of the boundaries, then that would require

02:37:59.540 --> 02:38:01.440
another approval.

02:38:01.440 --> 02:38:05.139
>> So just to clarify, this map right here would be binding

02:38:05.139 --> 02:38:05.440
.

02:38:05.440 --> 02:38:07.440
And so the exact points on this map.

02:38:07.440 --> 02:38:10.850
And so as long as they stay within that disturbed area and

02:38:10.850 --> 02:38:14.459
out of -- and inside the access easement and out of that

02:38:14.459 --> 02:38:16.440
little corner of -- okay.

02:38:16.440 --> 02:38:18.440
>> Correct.

02:38:18.440 --> 02:38:20.840
Well, and also because I spoke with the applicant after

02:38:20.840 --> 02:38:23.459
work session and that access easement is also including

02:38:23.459 --> 02:38:27.440
sidewalk areas and so pedestrian facilities as well.

02:38:27.440 --> 02:38:30.440
So it's not just going to be road within that.

02:38:30.440 --> 02:38:35.459
It would be also pedestrian facilities and room for their,

02:38:35.459 --> 02:38:39.440
you know, trees and their landscape buffer.

02:38:39.440 --> 02:38:42.440
>> A question.

02:38:42.440 --> 02:38:45.309
>> Per your comment, just then, that's a maximum size that

02:38:45.309 --> 02:38:46.440
they can disturb.

02:38:46.440 --> 02:38:49.790
They can certainly disturb less if they don't need the

02:38:49.790 --> 02:38:50.440
space.

02:38:50.440 --> 02:38:53.540
So they've probably oversized that to give them working

02:38:53.540 --> 02:38:56.440
space and they may not need to disturb that much.

02:38:56.440 --> 02:38:57.440
>> Right.

02:38:57.440 --> 02:38:58.440
But if they did disturb more.

02:38:58.440 --> 02:38:59.440
>> Correct.

02:38:59.440 --> 02:39:03.149
And then to follow up, we've had a lot of questions and

02:39:03.149 --> 02:39:05.440
conversations about the storm interceptors.

02:39:05.440 --> 02:39:09.690
What is the function of the pond itself as a natural

02:39:09.690 --> 02:39:13.440
facility to do that same sort of process?

02:39:13.440 --> 02:39:24.649
>> I'm going to have to ask Deborah for her expertise on

02:39:24.649 --> 02:39:27.440
the ponds.

02:39:27.440 --> 02:39:30.440
>> Any time that you allow water to slow down in velocity,

02:39:30.440 --> 02:39:34.440
any -- any -- any sediments that are carried by water that

02:39:34.440 --> 02:39:34.440
slow down,

02:39:34.440 --> 02:39:37.440
that allows the sediment to get out of solution.

02:39:37.440 --> 02:39:42.120
So pretty much you will see that the sediments will get to

02:39:42.120 --> 02:39:45.440
the bottom of the pond and stay there.

02:39:45.440 --> 02:39:51.440
I don't see an outfall of this detention pond.

02:39:51.440 --> 02:39:52.440
I don't know.

02:39:52.440 --> 02:39:56.799
I'm sure that it would be designed to hold the water and

02:39:56.799 --> 02:39:58.440
empty if necessary.

02:39:58.440 --> 02:40:01.370
And I'm sure the time will come when they will have to do

02:40:01.370 --> 02:40:04.879
maintenance to that pond and remove those sediments to just

02:40:04.879 --> 02:40:07.440
maintain the capacity of the pond itself.

02:40:07.440 --> 02:40:10.719
But every time that you hold water, then that allows the

02:40:10.719 --> 02:40:14.440
settlements to settle out of solution and be at the bottom.

02:40:14.440 --> 02:40:18.149
>> So effectively on the pond, I know there's been some

02:40:18.149 --> 02:40:22.250
concerns if the storm interceptors don't work or they're

02:40:22.250 --> 02:40:23.440
overwhelmed,

02:40:23.440 --> 02:40:27.649
this pond is going to act as a natural backup system to

02:40:27.649 --> 02:40:29.440
those facilities.

02:40:29.440 --> 02:40:33.440
>> It will hold them.

02:40:33.440 --> 02:40:38.459
And the visual will be more evident because we will see,

02:40:38.459 --> 02:40:42.559
for example, we start seeing fat and oils that creates a

02:40:42.559 --> 02:40:46.440
surface sheen that will be visible at the pond.

02:40:46.440 --> 02:40:50.110
If we're going to start, if they are not able to collect

02:40:50.110 --> 02:40:53.780
the floatables, then the floatables will end up at that

02:40:53.780 --> 02:40:54.440
pond.

02:40:54.440 --> 02:40:58.149
So I think that for the sake of the aesthetic of the

02:40:58.149 --> 02:41:03.440
development and how pleased the users of the site,

02:41:03.440 --> 02:41:07.360
it will be for their own benefit to just to keep it clean

02:41:07.360 --> 02:41:09.440
and keep it maintained.

02:41:09.440 --> 02:41:12.479
>> And the capacity of that pond is going to be far in

02:41:12.479 --> 02:41:16.059
excess of what the capacity of those two storm scepters are

02:41:16.059 --> 02:41:16.440
.

02:41:16.440 --> 02:41:18.440
>> Probably so, yeah.

02:41:18.440 --> 02:41:20.979
Just remember, the storm scepters, they fill in and they're

02:41:20.979 --> 02:41:21.440
empty.

02:41:21.440 --> 02:41:22.440
They fill in and they're empty.

02:41:22.440 --> 02:41:25.440
So that's pretty much the process.

02:41:25.440 --> 02:41:26.440
>> Thank you.

02:41:26.440 --> 02:41:27.440
I've got a couple more questions.

02:41:27.440 --> 02:41:31.440
I don't know who will be staffed to address these.

02:41:31.440 --> 02:41:36.440
Commissioner Taylor.

02:41:36.440 --> 02:41:37.440
>> Thank you, Chair.

02:41:37.440 --> 02:41:42.520
I believe these questions, basically I'd like to follow up

02:41:42.520 --> 02:41:45.440
with the engineer if you could.

02:41:45.440 --> 02:41:52.479
So using this diagram here, this map here, if you know that

02:41:52.479 --> 02:41:56.440
you're going to have to shift the planned road slightly,

02:41:56.440 --> 02:42:04.440
10 feet or whatever that is, would it be possible?

02:42:04.440 --> 02:42:08.520
I guess what I'd like to see, the final plan and the final

02:42:08.520 --> 02:42:10.440
amount of disturbed area

02:42:10.440 --> 02:42:16.010
and any additional area that would then be preserved to the

02:42:16.010 --> 02:42:17.440
southwest.

02:42:17.440 --> 02:42:20.500
So are you planning on moving the road or making the road

02:42:20.500 --> 02:42:22.440
narrower to clear that corner?

02:42:22.440 --> 02:42:25.709
>> Yeah, the road structure itself will be smaller in this

02:42:25.709 --> 02:42:26.440
segment.

02:42:26.440 --> 02:42:30.690
We have an oversized road section to provide maximum in

02:42:30.690 --> 02:42:32.440
front of our store.

02:42:32.440 --> 02:42:35.809
The other components of it, the pedestrian and the landsca

02:42:35.809 --> 02:42:38.440
ping would be thus increased in this area.

02:42:38.440 --> 02:42:41.440
But the disturbance is not just tied to the street.

02:42:41.440 --> 02:42:43.840
It's tied to the other utilities that are being placed in

02:42:43.840 --> 02:42:44.440
this area.

02:42:44.440 --> 02:42:47.620
And so those utilities will still be trenched through, if

02:42:47.620 --> 02:42:50.969
you will, laid and connected to the infrastructure of the

02:42:50.969 --> 02:42:51.440
city.

02:42:51.440 --> 02:42:54.979
So the disturbed area, what we've done is we have provided

02:42:54.979 --> 02:42:56.440
a little bit of a buffer,

02:42:56.440 --> 02:42:59.200
but that's just normal with the work zone because you don't

02:42:59.200 --> 02:43:01.440
know if Junior is going to jump over the fence or not.

02:43:01.440 --> 02:43:03.739
So you provide yourself with a little bit of a buffer, a

02:43:03.739 --> 02:43:04.440
safety zone.

02:43:04.440 --> 02:43:06.649
And so that's what we've done and that's what we're

02:43:06.649 --> 02:43:07.440
requesting.

02:43:07.440 --> 02:43:09.440
>> And could you address the sewer?

02:43:09.440 --> 02:43:13.100
I'm guessing just by looking at the utility map in this

02:43:13.100 --> 02:43:13.440
area,

02:43:13.440 --> 02:43:16.290
it looks like there's a sewer line that comes out kind of

02:43:16.290 --> 02:43:17.440
behind the Goodwill.

02:43:17.440 --> 02:43:21.389
And then there's a planned sewer line where the apartment

02:43:21.389 --> 02:43:23.440
complex to the south of you is.

02:43:23.440 --> 02:43:26.209
And it looks like we're not running this, the sewer wouldn

02:43:26.209 --> 02:43:27.440
't run down I-35.

02:43:27.440 --> 02:43:30.440
It looks like it needs to run through the middle of your...

02:43:30.440 --> 02:43:31.440
>> Yes, sir.

02:43:31.440 --> 02:43:33.920
The route, that's part of what was in the earlier question

02:43:33.920 --> 02:43:34.440
that we had,

02:43:34.440 --> 02:43:36.840
is that this route was chosen for all those different

02:43:36.840 --> 02:43:37.440
factors.

02:43:37.440 --> 02:43:40.739
The sanitary sewer, which is relatively shallow on our

02:43:40.739 --> 02:43:41.440
south side,

02:43:41.440 --> 02:43:44.579
is where we're reconnecting behind my flooring America and

02:43:44.579 --> 02:43:47.440
bringing that system northbound,

02:43:47.440 --> 02:43:50.440
parallel, underneath this road, parallel to 35.

02:43:50.440 --> 02:43:53.319
The water system is pulling from a 12-inch sub that's

02:43:53.319 --> 02:43:54.440
coming from a dead end,

02:43:54.440 --> 02:43:57.540
and we're looping it back into the city system to provide

02:43:57.540 --> 02:44:00.440
for fire capacity as well as emergency provisions

02:44:00.440 --> 02:44:04.440
and providing a portable service to the entire system.

02:44:04.440 --> 02:44:06.440
>> That all runs under your plan to roadway here?

02:44:06.440 --> 02:44:07.440
>> Yes, sir.

02:44:07.440 --> 02:44:09.440
It's consolidated everything underneath there.

02:44:09.440 --> 02:44:10.440
>> Thank you.

02:44:10.440 --> 02:44:11.440
>> Yep.

02:44:11.440 --> 02:44:13.440
>> Commissioner Dudowitz.

02:44:13.440 --> 02:44:16.440
>> Deborah, I'm going to need you again.

02:44:16.440 --> 02:44:18.760
Deborah did a very good job in our work session to explain

02:44:18.760 --> 02:44:21.459
a couple of questions I think that the audience might have

02:44:21.459 --> 02:44:22.440
and we had also.

02:44:22.440 --> 02:44:25.209
And that is the last time an assessment was done of this

02:44:25.209 --> 02:44:28.440
area was 2008, and we have not done one since.

02:44:28.440 --> 02:44:31.979
And the question is why and what information do you have

02:44:31.979 --> 02:44:34.440
now to believe that it is what it is?

02:44:34.440 --> 02:44:35.440
>> Okay.

02:44:35.440 --> 02:44:41.440
In 2008, the city, the proposed development for this area

02:44:41.440 --> 02:44:44.440
requested a field assessment.

02:44:44.440 --> 02:44:46.440
It was done by a third party who did it.

02:44:46.440 --> 02:44:50.180
At that time, the field assessment reported that the

02:44:50.180 --> 02:44:52.440
habitat was of good quality.

02:44:52.440 --> 02:44:53.440
Okay.

02:44:53.440 --> 02:44:58.389
The city of Denton have a system of rating, repair and

02:44:58.389 --> 02:44:59.440
buffer.

02:44:59.440 --> 02:45:02.440
The rating goes from poor all the way to excellent.

02:45:02.440 --> 02:45:06.440
This being good since the second down.

02:45:06.440 --> 02:45:10.440
Since 2008, there have been no changes in that area.

02:45:10.440 --> 02:45:13.409
I'm going to show some aerial photograph so that way you

02:45:13.409 --> 02:45:16.440
will see that nothing in the adjacency of the repair and

02:45:16.440 --> 02:45:16.440
buffer,

02:45:16.440 --> 02:45:19.799
nothing upstream of the repair and buffer have changed that

02:45:19.799 --> 02:45:24.129
make us believe that the changes, there have been changes

02:45:24.129 --> 02:45:25.440
in the habitat.

02:45:25.440 --> 02:45:29.440
This is 2009, 2011 at the bottom.

02:45:29.440 --> 02:45:32.440
We're going across 2013 and 2015.

02:45:32.440 --> 02:45:37.790
The other important factor here is the ESA regulation doesn

02:45:37.790 --> 02:45:42.440
't make distinction between a poor repair and buffer

02:45:42.440 --> 02:45:45.479
or an excellent repair and buffer when it comes down to

02:45:45.479 --> 02:45:46.440
mitigation.

02:45:46.440 --> 02:45:52.440
So let's say that the condition has changed to be poor.

02:45:52.440 --> 02:45:55.870
The applicant will still be required to go through this

02:45:55.870 --> 02:45:59.219
process and provide mitigation disregard of the quality of

02:45:59.219 --> 02:46:00.440
the repair and buffer.

02:46:00.440 --> 02:46:06.440
So that's why another assessment was not done.

02:46:06.440 --> 02:46:08.440
Staff went to the side.

02:46:08.440 --> 02:46:11.559
We did a visual which actually make us believe that the

02:46:11.559 --> 02:46:14.559
repair and buffer are still there performing their

02:46:14.559 --> 02:46:15.440
functions.

02:46:15.440 --> 02:46:18.750
The tree survey performed by the applicant still show a

02:46:18.750 --> 02:46:20.440
heavily vegetated area.

02:46:20.440 --> 02:46:24.579
So all those factors tells something about the existing

02:46:24.579 --> 02:46:28.440
condition and is those conditions have not changed

02:46:28.440 --> 02:46:32.590
to make us believe that we need to go and assess the area

02:46:32.590 --> 02:46:33.440
again.

02:46:33.440 --> 02:46:35.440
Thank you.

02:46:35.440 --> 02:46:38.299
At this time I don't see any other questions from our

02:46:38.299 --> 02:46:39.440
commissioners.

02:46:39.440 --> 02:46:41.440
This is a public hearing.

02:46:41.440 --> 02:46:45.440
At this time I have three cards requesting to speak.

02:46:45.440 --> 02:46:49.450
If anyone else besides, if you haven't filled out a card

02:46:49.450 --> 02:46:51.969
and you would like to speak, you will need to fill out a

02:46:51.969 --> 02:46:52.440
card.

02:46:52.440 --> 02:46:55.709
You'll have three minutes, excuse me, four minutes to speak

02:46:55.709 --> 02:46:56.440
on your item.

02:46:56.440 --> 02:46:59.450
And when you come up if you'll give your name and address

02:46:59.450 --> 02:47:02.440
as you begin your comments we would appreciate it.

02:47:02.440 --> 02:47:07.440
Our first comment will be from Pete Hammerly.

02:47:07.440 --> 02:47:15.200
He is in opposition and he will be followed by Lisa Rosen

02:47:15.200 --> 02:47:16.440
berg.

02:47:16.440 --> 02:47:17.440
Thank you very much.

02:47:17.440 --> 02:47:20.459
I appreciate all the efforts that this group has put into

02:47:20.459 --> 02:47:21.440
this project.

02:47:21.440 --> 02:47:25.440
I've been sitting in your seat times past.

02:47:25.440 --> 02:47:28.440
I know the personal sacrifice that you make.

02:47:28.440 --> 02:47:32.700
My name is Pete Hammerly and I own the house at 2817 Val

02:47:32.700 --> 02:47:33.440
encia.

02:47:33.440 --> 02:47:35.770
According to the map that I just saw and I admit I'm a

02:47:35.770 --> 02:47:37.440
little late to these discussions,

02:47:37.440 --> 02:47:42.440
my house backs up to what appears to be the car wash area.

02:47:42.440 --> 02:47:46.500
Now I'm assuming that of the 96 fuel pumps that some of

02:47:46.500 --> 02:47:48.440
those pumps are diesel.

02:47:48.440 --> 02:47:49.440
Is that correct?

02:47:49.440 --> 02:47:51.440
Can anybody here give me the answer to that?

02:47:51.440 --> 02:47:54.440
Yes.

02:47:54.440 --> 02:47:56.440
That's my point.

02:47:56.440 --> 02:48:04.200
You see I own a 40 foot diesel RV bus and I tow a Jeep Cher

02:48:04.200 --> 02:48:05.440
okee.

02:48:05.440 --> 02:48:12.040
You don't want me fueling up at this facility because when

02:48:12.040 --> 02:48:14.440
I come in it's a lot of noise,

02:48:14.440 --> 02:48:18.959
it's a lot of air brakes, it's a lot of fumes, but more

02:48:18.959 --> 02:48:21.440
importantly it's a lot of vibration.

02:48:21.440 --> 02:48:25.590
I can tell you that when I come in and I pass around the

02:48:25.590 --> 02:48:29.440
facility, people are going to feel it.

02:48:29.440 --> 02:48:31.440
Their windows are going to shake.

02:48:31.440 --> 02:48:36.440
Even glass in their showers are going to shake.

02:48:36.440 --> 02:48:38.969
And sometimes when we travel I'll actually spend the night

02:48:38.969 --> 02:48:39.440
there.

02:48:39.440 --> 02:48:44.700
I'll pull back around and put the air brake on, let the air

02:48:44.700 --> 02:48:46.440
out of the bags,

02:48:46.440 --> 02:48:48.440
and spend a couple of hours there.

02:48:48.440 --> 02:48:51.229
The only thing that means is at 3 or 4 o'clock in the

02:48:51.229 --> 02:48:53.440
morning I'm starting all this back up.

02:48:53.440 --> 02:48:56.440
That's noise again.

02:48:56.440 --> 02:48:59.500
And people that live close by are really going to hear it,

02:48:59.500 --> 02:49:01.440
but even people that live further out,

02:49:01.440 --> 02:49:03.440
you're going to hear this.

02:49:03.440 --> 02:49:05.440
You're going to smell the fumes.

02:49:05.440 --> 02:49:08.440
You're going to feel the vibration.

02:49:08.440 --> 02:49:12.510
Now it's been said that of course a facility like this,

02:49:12.510 --> 02:49:14.680
that there are 18 wheelers that come in to service the

02:49:14.680 --> 02:49:15.440
facility.

02:49:15.440 --> 02:49:17.440
Right sir?

02:49:17.440 --> 02:49:18.440
Of course.

02:49:18.440 --> 02:49:23.479
I have had my motor home in the back of Sam's and/or

02:49:23.479 --> 02:49:24.440
Walmart.

02:49:24.440 --> 02:49:28.829
And what happens is it's an incredible amount of noise and

02:49:28.829 --> 02:49:32.440
activity 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning.

02:49:32.440 --> 02:49:34.440
So I ask you to consider these functions.

02:49:34.440 --> 02:49:36.440
This is what happens.

02:49:36.440 --> 02:49:38.559
Even though they may say there's not going to be 18 wheel

02:49:38.559 --> 02:49:39.440
ers pulling in there,

02:49:39.440 --> 02:49:43.440
you're going to have RVs that are going to do that.

02:49:43.440 --> 02:49:45.440
And it's hard to keep them out.

02:49:45.440 --> 02:49:47.440
I thank you for your time, Curtis.

02:49:47.440 --> 02:49:52.440
Thank you.

02:49:52.440 --> 02:49:56.440
Our next card is Lisa Rosenberg.

02:49:56.440 --> 02:50:00.440
And she is in opposition.

02:50:00.440 --> 02:50:02.440
Hi.

02:50:02.440 --> 02:50:04.440
I too appreciate all that you do for the city.

02:50:04.440 --> 02:50:08.600
I've lived in this city since 1988 on and off and I love

02:50:08.600 --> 02:50:09.440
the city.

02:50:09.440 --> 02:50:13.440
And I have been a resident on Valencia since 2002.

02:50:13.440 --> 02:50:19.440
I was one of the first few people to move into the area.

02:50:19.440 --> 02:50:23.520
Lenore that built these homes did an amazing job of

02:50:23.520 --> 02:50:26.440
building these homes on a marsh.

02:50:26.440 --> 02:50:30.780
Since I have been living in my home, my backyard has sunk

02:50:30.780 --> 02:50:32.440
over a foot.

02:50:32.440 --> 02:50:37.709
I have now an embankment that comes from this property that

02:50:37.709 --> 02:50:39.440
's being proposed.

02:50:39.440 --> 02:50:44.440
And everything that's on that side runs into my yard.

02:50:44.440 --> 02:50:48.639
Now, I wish I could use your map to show what I'm talking

02:50:48.639 --> 02:50:49.440
about.

02:50:49.440 --> 02:50:52.440
I'll call the staff to pull up the map.

02:50:52.440 --> 02:50:54.440
Absolutely.

02:50:54.440 --> 02:50:58.440
The one that has the yellow, that one.

02:50:58.440 --> 02:51:06.239
My house, if I'm not mistaken, is going to be this one

02:51:06.239 --> 02:51:09.440
right here, here.

02:51:09.440 --> 02:51:14.969
The house next to me has to put a sump pump here to pump

02:51:14.969 --> 02:51:18.440
water out of their backyard every time it rains.

02:51:18.440 --> 02:51:21.440
Because this area has sunk so much.

02:51:21.440 --> 02:51:23.440
Ninety-three pumps.

02:51:23.440 --> 02:51:25.440
I have a doctorate in biology.

02:51:25.440 --> 02:51:27.440
I have a doctorate actually in neurobiology.

02:51:27.440 --> 02:51:29.440
I work for the Department of Defense.

02:51:29.440 --> 02:51:32.709
One of the things that I did for a number of years when I

02:51:32.709 --> 02:51:36.270
was affiliated with Georgetown Medical School was test soil

02:51:36.270 --> 02:51:42.440
, air, and water contamination for neurological deficits.

02:51:42.440 --> 02:51:45.010
Caused by contaminants, I worked for the Department of

02:51:45.010 --> 02:51:51.440
Defense looking at things like petroleum, organophosphates

02:51:51.440 --> 02:51:52.440
that accumulate in water,

02:51:52.440 --> 02:51:55.579
what it would mean for our servicemen if they were to drink

02:51:55.579 --> 02:51:56.440
this water.

02:51:56.440 --> 02:52:01.180
I will tell you, ninety-three pumps in this area, giving

02:52:01.180 --> 02:52:04.440
off vapor, that's going to be a cesspool in no time.

02:52:04.440 --> 02:52:08.750
And what's going to happen to me and to my neighbor is as

02:52:08.750 --> 02:52:13.829
that water table carries that aquifer into my backyard, I'm

02:52:13.829 --> 02:52:16.440
going to be polluted.

02:52:16.440 --> 02:52:19.440
And my grandchild plays in that backyard.

02:52:19.440 --> 02:52:21.440
I don't want that.

02:52:21.440 --> 02:52:24.379
So, you know, it's nice that Buc-E's is going to offer us

02:52:24.379 --> 02:52:25.440
clean toilets.

02:52:25.440 --> 02:52:27.440
I work as a hospice nurse now.

02:52:27.440 --> 02:52:30.440
I can tell you where every clean toilet is.

02:52:30.440 --> 02:52:31.440
I have to stop at them.

02:52:31.440 --> 02:52:33.440
I don't stop at Buc-E's.

02:52:33.440 --> 02:52:35.440
I don't need Buc-E's.

02:52:35.440 --> 02:52:37.440
Go out to 114 and look at that.

02:52:37.440 --> 02:52:41.440
And then imagine it in our city.

02:52:41.440 --> 02:52:42.440
I'm sorry.

02:52:42.440 --> 02:52:46.139
I mean, I like Buc-E's nuts, but not enough that I'm

02:52:46.139 --> 02:52:50.440
willing to say, hey, we're safe living behind this.

02:52:50.440 --> 02:52:52.440
We're not.

02:52:52.440 --> 02:52:55.100
And I think you need to do a lot more testing to find out

02:52:55.100 --> 02:52:57.930
exactly what's going to happen to that pond and what

02:52:57.930 --> 02:53:04.440
happens to all those residents in about an eight-year time.

02:53:04.440 --> 02:53:08.440
Thank you for your comments.

02:53:08.440 --> 02:53:12.440
Our next speaker is Jerry Drake.

02:53:12.440 --> 02:53:19.420
He is in opposition, followed by, to be followed by Deborah

02:53:19.420 --> 02:53:21.440
, our mentor.

02:53:21.440 --> 02:53:22.440
>> Good evening.

02:53:22.440 --> 02:53:24.850
My name is Jerry Drake, and I'm sure most of you recognize

02:53:24.850 --> 02:53:28.010
that I'm an employee with the city, but I'm speaking to you

02:53:28.010 --> 02:53:28.440
tonight.

02:53:28.440 --> 02:53:30.440
I'm here only as a neighbor.

02:53:30.440 --> 02:53:34.440
If we could get the concept map back up, I'd appreciate it.

02:53:34.440 --> 02:53:38.440
I'd like to use it to refer to.

02:53:38.440 --> 02:53:43.610
One of the things that I heard here is that one of the just

02:53:43.610 --> 02:53:49.069
ifications for this ADP was to provide sort of an improved

02:53:49.069 --> 02:53:53.440
location to protect these neighborhoods.

02:53:53.440 --> 02:53:57.750
And I live in South Ridge Estates, this neighborhood over

02:53:57.750 --> 02:53:58.440
here.

02:53:58.440 --> 02:54:04.879
And the mention was made of the 50-foot landscape buffer

02:54:04.879 --> 02:54:07.440
that is part of the overlay zoning.

02:54:07.440 --> 02:54:12.459
And I believe there's also a requirement that wrought iron

02:54:12.459 --> 02:54:17.440
fences be placed along this side of South Ridge Estates.

02:54:17.440 --> 02:54:21.479
What that effectively means is that for all of these houses

02:54:21.479 --> 02:54:22.440
along here,

02:54:22.440 --> 02:54:25.520
they have an unrestricted view of the buckies and its

02:54:25.520 --> 02:54:27.440
parking lot and its gas pumps.

02:54:27.440 --> 02:54:31.440
And there's absolutely no sound mitigation whatsoever.

02:54:31.440 --> 02:54:37.610
And one of the reasons for that is that when this zoning

02:54:37.610 --> 02:54:42.440
was approved, what was put forward was multifamily housing.

02:54:42.440 --> 02:54:46.100
So when the buckies was proposed, there was really no

02:54:46.100 --> 02:54:50.059
opportunity for the neighborhood to speak regarding this

02:54:50.059 --> 02:54:52.440
incredible change of use

02:54:52.440 --> 02:54:55.500
between one of the less restrictive zoning districts and

02:54:55.500 --> 02:54:58.440
one of the most restrictive zoning districts here.

02:54:58.440 --> 02:55:03.670
And what I'm hearing tonight is that we're talking about an

02:55:03.670 --> 02:55:08.440
impact of 24 trees lost, 8 trees added.

02:55:08.440 --> 02:55:11.440
That sounds like you're down 16 trees to me.

02:55:11.440 --> 02:55:15.370
Maybe I'm not understanding it correctly, but I'd like to

02:55:15.370 --> 02:55:17.440
propose a simple alternative.

02:55:17.440 --> 02:55:21.819
And that would be to simply take this 50-foot landscape

02:55:21.819 --> 02:55:26.309
buffer, which is completely ineffective here because it's

02:55:26.309 --> 02:55:28.440
all water at this point.

02:55:28.440 --> 02:55:31.440
There's no place to plant anything.

02:55:31.440 --> 02:55:37.639
And to simply relocate it around this east perimeter of the

02:55:37.639 --> 02:55:38.440
pod.

02:55:38.440 --> 02:55:42.440
That would provide visual screening for the neighborhood.

02:55:42.440 --> 02:55:46.440
It would provide sound deadening for the neighborhood.

02:55:46.440 --> 02:55:51.440
It would enhance the environmental area here.

02:55:51.440 --> 02:55:55.440
And it would provide a number of benefits.

02:55:55.440 --> 02:55:58.870
Yes, it would perhaps take some of these trees that we were

02:55:58.870 --> 02:56:01.440
talking about out of this riparian area.

02:56:01.440 --> 02:56:05.299
But if you got 16 left over, it seems like they could be

02:56:05.299 --> 02:56:09.780
planted in here to provide some kind of screening for these

02:56:09.780 --> 02:56:11.440
homes along here.

02:56:11.440 --> 02:56:15.520
And aside from that, I really have no comment on the storm

02:56:15.520 --> 02:56:20.129
scepters or the technology that's being proposed by Buc-E's

02:56:20.129 --> 02:56:20.440
.

02:56:20.440 --> 02:56:27.129
I really have no comment about the nature of the Buc-E's

02:56:27.129 --> 02:56:30.440
establishment itself.

02:56:30.440 --> 02:56:36.430
I'm just trying to propose a way to improve this proposal

02:56:36.430 --> 02:56:38.440
by changing the tree plan.

02:56:38.440 --> 02:56:43.899
And maybe taking some of the buffer that's called out along

02:56:43.899 --> 02:56:46.440
here where it's completely ineffective.

02:56:46.440 --> 02:56:49.040
And relocating it over here using some of those trees and

02:56:49.040 --> 02:56:50.440
perhaps some other trees.

02:56:50.440 --> 02:56:54.440
It would be a very cheap fix for Buc-E's.

02:56:54.440 --> 02:56:57.440
Before you go, I need to get your address for the record.

02:56:57.440 --> 02:56:59.440
Yes, sir. 2504 Shiloh Road.

02:56:59.440 --> 02:57:02.440
Thank you. I see no questions. Thank you for your comments.

02:57:02.440 --> 02:57:06.440
Thank you.

02:57:06.440 --> 02:57:10.440
Our next speaker again will be Deborah Armentor.

02:57:10.440 --> 02:57:16.260
She is registered in opposition to be followed by Leanne

02:57:16.260 --> 02:57:17.440
Squire.

02:57:17.440 --> 02:57:21.440
Hi. Deborah Armentor, 2003 Mistywood Lane.

02:57:21.440 --> 02:57:27.440
And I'm speaking, as you said, in opposition to this item.

02:57:27.440 --> 02:57:30.440
I too want to thank you.

02:57:30.440 --> 02:57:33.069
I want to thank all of you for the work that you do on

02:57:33.069 --> 02:57:34.440
planning and zoning.

02:57:34.440 --> 02:57:36.440
I really appreciate it.

02:57:36.440 --> 02:57:39.780
And I know that it's your job to deal with and deliberate

02:57:39.780 --> 02:57:41.440
on whatever you're dealt.

02:57:41.440 --> 02:57:43.440
And you don't get to decide what you're dealt.

02:57:43.440 --> 02:57:45.440
So anyway, thank you. Thank you for doing what you do.

02:57:45.440 --> 02:57:47.440
I appreciate it.

02:57:47.440 --> 02:57:52.459
My problem with this Buc-E business from the very beginning

02:57:52.459 --> 02:57:58.250
has been primarily a problem with process and due diligence

02:57:58.250 --> 02:57:58.440
.

02:57:58.440 --> 02:58:04.059
I don't like the fact that neighborhoods were not contacted

02:58:04.059 --> 02:58:04.440
.

02:58:04.440 --> 02:58:08.760
In fact, Buc-E's was referred to by a code name, Project

02:58:08.760 --> 02:58:13.440
Cartoon, so that us regular folks,

02:58:13.440 --> 02:58:16.290
including the people who live in the adjacent neighborhoods

02:58:16.290 --> 02:58:17.440
, wouldn't know about it.

02:58:17.440 --> 02:58:20.440
To me, that's bad process.

02:58:20.440 --> 02:58:23.440
I realize you all weren't responsible for this,

02:58:23.440 --> 02:58:29.100
but it's part and parcel of this issue that we're dealing

02:58:29.100 --> 02:58:30.440
with now.

02:58:30.440 --> 02:58:36.440
In addition, there have been all these turns of the screw

02:58:36.440 --> 02:58:40.440
or wrenches thrown in or whatever metaphor you want to use

02:58:40.440 --> 02:58:47.559
by which this Buc-E's deal keeps changing and shifting as

02:58:47.559 --> 02:58:49.440
we go along.

02:58:49.440 --> 02:58:54.549
We found out when we first heard about it, we learned that

02:58:54.549 --> 02:59:00.440
these roads had already been decided on, this new road plan

02:59:00.440 --> 02:59:00.440
.

02:59:00.440 --> 02:59:04.290
And we also learned that even though there would be

02:59:04.290 --> 02:59:07.469
improvements to the traffic flow in this highly congested

02:59:07.469 --> 02:59:09.440
area,

02:59:09.440 --> 02:59:14.809
access to Denton Regional Hospital by fire and emergency

02:59:14.809 --> 02:59:17.440
services was still blocked.

02:59:17.440 --> 02:59:20.440
And that remains a problem.

02:59:20.440 --> 02:59:24.489
I was interested to hear and listening to a staff member

02:59:24.489 --> 02:59:27.440
showing precisely this map up here.

02:59:27.440 --> 02:59:31.670
She mentioned something to the extent of, well, this is the

02:59:31.670 --> 02:59:35.459
map we had from the fall, I think she said, from some time

02:59:35.459 --> 02:59:36.440
last year.

02:59:36.440 --> 02:59:42.000
But things may have changed since then or things may change

02:59:42.000 --> 02:59:43.440
since then.

02:59:43.440 --> 02:59:49.059
So that seemed highly problematic to me, but also typical

02:59:49.059 --> 02:59:51.440
of what we've seen so far.

02:59:51.440 --> 02:59:53.649
And this issue that we're dealing with today, this

02:59:53.649 --> 02:59:57.440
environmental issue, is yet another one of these cases

02:59:57.440 --> 03:00:02.030
where something that we didn't expect regarding this Buc-E

03:00:02.030 --> 03:00:05.440
's deal suddenly comes up out of nowhere.

03:00:05.440 --> 03:00:16.690
So I object to this as just more of the same, yet another

03:00:16.690 --> 03:00:20.440
red flag that we're doing the wrong things by Buc-E's.

03:00:20.440 --> 03:00:28.440
And I would advise you all to not be afraid to vote no

03:00:28.440 --> 03:00:32.030
until you really feel with confidence that due diligence

03:00:32.030 --> 03:00:33.440
has been done.

03:00:33.440 --> 03:00:36.600
And I also don't think that the duty of this due diligence

03:00:36.600 --> 03:00:39.569
should be entirely up to you, planning and zoning

03:00:39.569 --> 03:00:40.440
commission.

03:00:40.440 --> 03:00:43.440
I think that the people who are proposing this project,

03:00:43.440 --> 03:00:47.020
including Buc-E's, the Buc-E's people, should be

03:00:47.020 --> 03:00:48.440
responsible for it.

03:00:48.440 --> 03:00:52.379
And by the way, as others have said, I too, I have no issue

03:00:52.379 --> 03:00:54.440
with Buc-E's, the brand.

03:00:54.440 --> 03:00:56.950
I've stopped in Buc-E's restroom with my family on big road

03:00:56.950 --> 03:00:57.440
trips.

03:00:57.440 --> 03:01:00.079
We're always happy to be there and eat there and use their

03:01:00.079 --> 03:01:01.440
bathrooms, et cetera.

03:01:01.440 --> 03:01:04.450
I just think it's badly placed and there's been poor

03:01:04.450 --> 03:01:06.440
process regarding this plan.

03:01:06.440 --> 03:01:08.440
Thank you.

03:01:08.440 --> 03:01:12.440
Thank you for your comments.

03:01:12.440 --> 03:01:16.440
Our next speaker will be Leanne Squire.

03:01:16.440 --> 03:01:18.440
She is in opposition.

03:01:18.440 --> 03:01:21.440
And at this time I have one further card behind.

03:01:21.440 --> 03:01:25.579
Looks like I believe it is Brett Chance would follow Ms.

03:01:25.579 --> 03:01:26.440
Squire.

03:01:26.440 --> 03:01:28.440
Hello.

03:01:28.440 --> 03:01:31.440
I am a native of Denton.

03:01:31.440 --> 03:01:35.440
And so I've lived here over 50 years.

03:01:35.440 --> 03:01:39.370
And one thing I'm really proud about regarding this city is

03:01:39.370 --> 03:01:42.440
its stance on environmental protection.

03:01:42.440 --> 03:01:44.219
Before you get started, will you state your name and

03:01:44.219 --> 03:01:45.440
address and record, please?

03:01:45.440 --> 03:01:47.440
Yes. Leanne Squire.

03:01:47.440 --> 03:01:48.440
Your time will start now.

03:01:48.440 --> 03:01:49.440
Okay.

03:01:49.440 --> 03:01:51.440
2604 Valencia Lane.

03:01:51.440 --> 03:01:54.440
Backing up to the proposal here.

03:01:54.440 --> 03:01:58.200
So Denton has been really known to be an environmentally

03:01:58.200 --> 03:01:59.440
friendly city.

03:01:59.440 --> 03:02:02.950
And even more than that, I think one that sort of looks

03:02:02.950 --> 03:02:08.440
ahead and watches out to protect, you know, some native

03:02:08.440 --> 03:02:10.440
areas, some native species,

03:02:10.440 --> 03:02:14.280
and really just to look at the impact of development on the

03:02:14.280 --> 03:02:15.440
environment.

03:02:15.440 --> 03:02:18.829
And I know in some senses Denton has been known to be anti-

03:02:18.829 --> 03:02:20.440
business a little bit.

03:02:20.440 --> 03:02:24.440
There's been some, you know, rhetoric about that.

03:02:24.440 --> 03:02:27.459
But I'm proud to say that for the most part I feel like

03:02:27.459 --> 03:02:31.440
Denton has done the right thing in preserving, you know,

03:02:31.440 --> 03:02:37.440
the areas that like some of these under discussion today.

03:02:37.440 --> 03:02:45.500
So one thing I am concerned about after seeing the canopy

03:02:45.500 --> 03:02:46.440
issue,

03:02:46.440 --> 03:02:50.829
and I don't know if you can bring that back up, but seeing

03:02:50.829 --> 03:02:56.440
the replacement of the calipers and being,

03:02:56.440 --> 03:03:00.750
and really being told in 40 years we'll have our canopy

03:03:00.750 --> 03:03:01.440
back.

03:03:01.440 --> 03:03:05.750
And I'll be dead, I'm pretty sure, before we get our canopy

03:03:05.750 --> 03:03:06.440
back.

03:03:06.440 --> 03:03:12.440
So there's a lot of things that happen under a canopy.

03:03:12.440 --> 03:03:18.129
Things grow, things are flourished, and when you take that

03:03:18.129 --> 03:03:22.440
out, you really take away a protective environment.

03:03:22.440 --> 03:03:27.739
So I'd like to, you know, I'd like to hear more about what

03:03:27.739 --> 03:03:31.440
can be done to protect and to fully replace

03:03:31.440 --> 03:03:37.319
and go above and beyond, as you have said, mitigating the

03:03:37.319 --> 03:03:38.440
damage.

03:03:38.440 --> 03:03:44.420
The next thing, my question is, have wildlife assessments

03:03:44.420 --> 03:03:48.879
been made based on, like, any kind of wildlife that is on

03:03:48.879 --> 03:03:50.440
the property?

03:03:50.440 --> 03:03:55.760
Has that been done, not just the green, but the living, you

03:03:55.760 --> 03:03:59.440
know, creatures that might be there?

03:03:59.440 --> 03:04:01.930
I don't know if we can have staff address this particular

03:04:01.930 --> 03:04:02.440
issue.

03:04:02.440 --> 03:04:07.670
We'd address this in our work session, but would that be

03:04:07.670 --> 03:04:10.440
appropriate at this time?

03:04:10.440 --> 03:04:13.389
We will get that answer after our public comments before we

03:04:13.389 --> 03:04:14.440
take any action.

03:04:14.440 --> 03:04:15.440
Okay, awesome, awesome.

03:04:15.440 --> 03:04:16.440
Thank you for the question.

03:04:16.440 --> 03:04:18.440
I mean, there's just no telling.

03:04:18.440 --> 03:04:21.799
And I was kind of surprised to see that the last study was

03:04:21.799 --> 03:04:23.440
done in 2008.

03:04:23.440 --> 03:04:27.420
So it's been eight years since that area has really been

03:04:27.420 --> 03:04:28.440
looked at.

03:04:28.440 --> 03:04:32.440
That gives me a little bit of cause for concern.

03:04:32.440 --> 03:04:37.770
The next thing is I agree with what our neurobiologists

03:04:37.770 --> 03:04:42.440
said about the petrochemicals running off.

03:04:42.440 --> 03:04:46.459
And I'm not sure, you know, I don't have that problem in my

03:04:46.459 --> 03:04:47.440
backyard.

03:04:47.440 --> 03:04:50.440
I don't have to get a sump pump up after every rain.

03:04:50.440 --> 03:04:51.440
Thank goodness.

03:04:51.440 --> 03:04:55.440
We do have a drainage ditch behind our house.

03:04:55.440 --> 03:04:59.899
I don't know how that will be affected because the maps don

03:04:59.899 --> 03:05:02.440
't really address that area.

03:05:02.440 --> 03:05:08.389
But there is, you know, just the reality is when you have

03:05:08.389 --> 03:05:10.440
that much concrete

03:05:10.440 --> 03:05:14.120
and you have petrochemicals on the concrete, when the rain

03:05:14.120 --> 03:05:16.440
comes, they're going to run off somewhere.

03:05:16.440 --> 03:05:18.440
And some of those will be fumes.

03:05:18.440 --> 03:05:22.780
Some will be, you know, they're going to go into the ground

03:05:22.780 --> 03:05:24.440
and into the water.

03:05:24.440 --> 03:05:29.440
So I am concerned about that.

03:05:29.440 --> 03:05:35.920
The other issue is have all, I'm sure, surely, I'm not an

03:05:35.920 --> 03:05:36.440
engineer,

03:05:36.440 --> 03:05:41.700
but all the calculations as far as how that much concrete,

03:05:41.700 --> 03:05:46.879
600 plus spaces will affect the runoff, if you could

03:05:46.879 --> 03:05:47.440
address that.

03:05:47.440 --> 03:05:48.440
Thank you.

03:05:48.440 --> 03:05:52.440
Thank you for your comments.

03:05:52.440 --> 03:05:56.440
Our next speaker will be, I believe it is Brett Chance.

03:05:56.440 --> 03:05:59.819
It's not marked as in support or opposition, if you'll give

03:05:59.819 --> 03:06:02.549
your name and address when you come up, to be followed by

03:06:02.549 --> 03:06:03.440
Lee Evans.

03:06:03.440 --> 03:06:06.270
Again, this is a public hearing and anybody that would like

03:06:06.270 --> 03:06:09.600
to speak on this item, please fill out a blue card and we

03:06:09.600 --> 03:06:10.440
would like to hear from you.

03:06:10.440 --> 03:06:11.440
Thank you, sir.

03:06:11.440 --> 03:06:12.440
Yeah, Brett Chance.

03:06:12.440 --> 03:06:15.440
I live at 2409 Natchez Trace.

03:06:15.440 --> 03:06:19.299
You know, I guess really my first question is, is okay, you

03:06:19.299 --> 03:06:22.579
're talking about taking away the tree canopy, but then

03:06:22.579 --> 03:06:25.440
replacing it and hoping it comes back in 40 to 50 years.

03:06:25.440 --> 03:06:29.969
My question is, what's the point of even doing that when we

03:06:29.969 --> 03:06:32.440
need the privacy right now?

03:06:32.440 --> 03:06:35.440
That's not going to do us any good until at that point.

03:06:35.440 --> 03:06:39.319
The other part of that is I realize it's still early in the

03:06:39.319 --> 03:06:43.719
process and all that, but still having that 50 foot buffer

03:06:43.719 --> 03:06:47.870
in between Southridge and even the other subdivision, that

03:06:47.870 --> 03:06:50.440
's not enough of a buffer.

03:06:50.440 --> 03:06:54.879
So, you know, one of the things I like to see is going

03:06:54.879 --> 03:06:59.889
ahead and having some sort of a retaining wall or something

03:06:59.889 --> 03:07:04.360
like that eight foot concrete tilt wall that is on the

03:07:04.360 --> 03:07:08.440
other side of the pond in between the pond and Buc-E's.

03:07:08.440 --> 03:07:12.209
So that way that's giving us some sort of a break from all

03:07:12.209 --> 03:07:16.079
of the headlights coming in shining in our backyards and

03:07:16.079 --> 03:07:20.440
also as a noise buffer rather than just depending on trees.

03:07:20.440 --> 03:07:24.149
Even though, yes, you know, having environmental buffer,

03:07:24.149 --> 03:07:27.579
that's great, but having some sort of added protection at

03:07:27.579 --> 03:07:28.440
that point.

03:07:28.440 --> 03:07:32.200
And then also, you know, talking about the pond and all

03:07:32.200 --> 03:07:36.059
that with all the pollutants coming in there, you know,

03:07:36.059 --> 03:07:40.120
large airports have to have special environmental things in

03:07:40.120 --> 03:07:43.690
place with all the jet fuel and diesel fuel and all that

03:07:43.690 --> 03:07:46.680
that's coming off the tarmac to be able to help keep the

03:07:46.680 --> 03:07:47.440
pollutants coming in.

03:07:47.440 --> 03:07:50.129
So my question is why don't we have the same thing put in

03:07:50.129 --> 03:07:53.000
place for the pond to protect the environment and also the

03:07:53.000 --> 03:07:56.010
citizens, they're going to have to deal with that runoff so

03:07:56.010 --> 03:07:59.090
we don't have environmental toxins coming into our backyard

03:07:59.090 --> 03:07:59.440
.

03:07:59.440 --> 03:08:01.440
And I'm very much opposed to this. Thank you.

03:08:01.440 --> 03:08:06.440
Thank you. Thank you for your comments.

03:08:06.440 --> 03:08:10.440
Our next speaker will be Lee Evans in opposition.

03:08:10.440 --> 03:08:15.770
You'll state your name and address to be followed by

03:08:15.770 --> 03:08:17.440
Douglas Wooten.

03:08:17.440 --> 03:08:20.440
Hi, Lee Evans, 2400 Natchez trees.

03:08:20.440 --> 03:08:29.440
Can we have the tree canopy map up, please?

03:08:29.440 --> 03:08:32.440
My house is in this lot right here.

03:08:32.440 --> 03:08:35.440
And I'm very much against this thing.

03:08:35.440 --> 03:08:40.440
It looks like all of this is going to be taken out.

03:08:40.440 --> 03:08:44.440
Is that correct?

03:08:44.440 --> 03:08:49.440
The area impacted is this right here.

03:08:49.440 --> 03:08:52.440
So this is all not impacted.

03:08:52.440 --> 03:08:54.440
Okay. What about this part here?

03:08:54.440 --> 03:08:56.440
There's all manner of trees and things in here, too.

03:08:56.440 --> 03:08:59.440
That's outside of the environmentally sensitive area.

03:08:59.440 --> 03:09:01.440
So those trees don't get to count.

03:09:01.440 --> 03:09:03.440
How many of those are going to be taken out?

03:09:03.440 --> 03:09:05.440
I'm not sure.

03:09:05.440 --> 03:09:08.770
Okay. Also, we've talked about a 50-foot landscape buffer

03:09:08.770 --> 03:09:09.440
that would run down through here.

03:09:09.440 --> 03:09:11.440
Am I correct?

03:09:11.440 --> 03:09:14.440
That 50-foot, you can't put a landscape in there.

03:09:14.440 --> 03:09:17.440
That's a utility easement.

03:09:17.440 --> 03:09:20.440
They've already taken out all of the small trees there.

03:09:20.440 --> 03:09:24.129
From what I understand from the electric guys that came and

03:09:24.129 --> 03:09:25.440
chopped our trees out,

03:09:25.440 --> 03:09:28.139
that has to be clear for them to bring a truck down there

03:09:28.139 --> 03:09:29.440
any time they choose.

03:09:29.440 --> 03:09:32.879
So if you put a landscape in there, they're simply going to

03:09:32.879 --> 03:09:33.440
dig it up,

03:09:33.440 --> 03:09:37.440
getting to fix power lines and things like that.

03:09:37.440 --> 03:09:40.440
So that's not possible.

03:09:40.440 --> 03:09:45.139
So I ask that this please do not let them do this in that

03:09:45.139 --> 03:09:46.440
entrance.

03:09:46.440 --> 03:09:50.149
It'll be an absolute nightmare for us that live against

03:09:50.149 --> 03:09:51.440
that like that.

03:09:51.440 --> 03:09:55.500
You have to plant eight trees somewhere else, two-inch

03:09:55.500 --> 03:09:56.440
caliber,

03:09:56.440 --> 03:10:00.440
as opposed to these big, magnificent trees that are there,

03:10:00.440 --> 03:10:03.219
plus all these others that they're going to take out anyway

03:10:03.219 --> 03:10:03.440
.

03:10:03.440 --> 03:10:07.440
Our view will be nothing but the back of a restaurant.

03:10:07.440 --> 03:10:11.659
As far as being contacted about this, my house never

03:10:11.659 --> 03:10:14.440
received notice from the city,

03:10:14.440 --> 03:10:17.440
never received notice from Buc-E's, anything else.

03:10:17.440 --> 03:10:20.870
This is the first meeting I've known about, or I would have

03:10:20.870 --> 03:10:21.440
been here before.

03:10:21.440 --> 03:10:25.440
This has been done to us, not with us.

03:10:25.440 --> 03:10:27.440
They've let some people know.

03:10:27.440 --> 03:10:30.909
And I'm telling you, the stuff that they're telling you

03:10:30.909 --> 03:10:33.440
they will do, they cannot do.

03:10:33.440 --> 03:10:35.440
Your city's already zoned against it.

03:10:35.440 --> 03:10:37.440
Thank you.

03:10:37.440 --> 03:10:41.440
Thank you for your comments.

03:10:41.440 --> 03:10:42.440
Again, this is a public hearing.

03:10:42.440 --> 03:10:44.440
At this time, I have one card left.

03:10:44.440 --> 03:10:47.440
Douglas Wooten, who wants to speak in support.

03:10:47.440 --> 03:10:50.979
So anyone else that would like to speak, please fill out a

03:10:50.979 --> 03:10:52.440
card or prepare to come forward,

03:10:52.440 --> 03:10:55.540
and then you can fill out a card after you give your

03:10:55.540 --> 03:10:56.440
comments.

03:10:56.440 --> 03:11:00.440
Douglas Wooten, 2701 Valencia Lane.

03:11:00.440 --> 03:11:04.440
I back up right to this site.

03:11:04.440 --> 03:11:08.100
My wife and I have been on all the council meetings that

03:11:08.100 --> 03:11:09.440
have taken place.

03:11:09.440 --> 03:11:15.319
We were at the original public hearing, albeit it was short

03:11:15.319 --> 03:11:17.440
notice, I agree.

03:11:17.440 --> 03:11:20.440
But we basically have put ourselves in the loop.

03:11:20.440 --> 03:11:22.440
We've been to the council meetings.

03:11:22.440 --> 03:11:26.149
We've heard what Buc-E's has proposed and what they've said

03:11:26.149 --> 03:11:26.440
.

03:11:26.440 --> 03:11:30.540
We've seen proposals in the past that put three stories of

03:11:30.540 --> 03:11:34.440
apartment buildings within 25 feet of my back fence.

03:11:34.440 --> 03:11:41.459
And if I'm not mistaken, the average is well over 300 feet

03:11:41.459 --> 03:11:45.440
for any of the residents to where the building is.

03:11:45.440 --> 03:11:49.530
They talk about a cement retaining wall that's been

03:11:49.530 --> 03:11:52.129
discussed and that he's going to put a cement retaining

03:11:52.129 --> 03:11:56.440
wall between our houses and his establishment.

03:11:56.440 --> 03:12:00.930
I just see it not really affecting us in traffic because

03:12:00.930 --> 03:12:04.219
most of it's going to be right on and back onto the freeway

03:12:04.219 --> 03:12:05.440
, off and on.

03:12:05.440 --> 03:12:09.750
And I live, I take Wind River and get on the freeway every

03:12:09.750 --> 03:12:10.440
morning.

03:12:10.440 --> 03:12:14.559
And this is going to be well north of that where it comes

03:12:14.559 --> 03:12:15.440
back in.

03:12:15.440 --> 03:12:19.440
And I just, I don't see it as a bad thing.

03:12:19.440 --> 03:12:24.340
I see it as progress and our city taking a step in the

03:12:24.340 --> 03:12:26.440
right direction.

03:12:26.440 --> 03:12:29.440
I know that the lake is back there.

03:12:29.440 --> 03:12:31.440
It's right behind my house.

03:12:31.440 --> 03:12:32.440
No one's ever there.

03:12:32.440 --> 03:12:34.440
Nothing ever goes on there.

03:12:34.440 --> 03:12:42.420
So just to wonder what it's going to do to it, well, nobody

03:12:42.420 --> 03:12:44.440
knows what's going on now.

03:12:44.440 --> 03:12:46.440
I mean, it's just basically out of the loop.

03:12:46.440 --> 03:12:47.440
Nothing's there.

03:12:47.440 --> 03:12:48.440
No one goes there.

03:12:48.440 --> 03:12:50.440
There's cattle that are out there.

03:12:50.440 --> 03:12:51.440
I've seen bobcats.

03:12:51.440 --> 03:12:57.440
I see squirrels all the time, skunks, possums.

03:12:57.440 --> 03:13:01.600
But as far as the buffer zone that they're speaking about,

03:13:01.600 --> 03:13:06.440
you know, like I said, it's well over 300 feet from myself.

03:13:06.440 --> 03:13:09.440
And they've talked about low-level lighting.

03:13:09.440 --> 03:13:14.239
There's been plenty of things that Buc-E's has talked about

03:13:14.239 --> 03:13:17.440
in concession to be a good neighbor.

03:13:17.440 --> 03:13:19.440
They're not going in there trying to bully us.

03:13:19.440 --> 03:13:21.500
They're not going in there saying this is what it is and

03:13:21.500 --> 03:13:23.440
live with it because this is what we're doing.

03:13:23.440 --> 03:13:24.440
They've taken input.

03:13:24.440 --> 03:13:27.440
They've asked, at least I've gotten input.

03:13:27.440 --> 03:13:32.930
I've talked with Mr. Beaver himself, Mr. Arpin, and he just

03:13:32.930 --> 03:13:35.760
seems concerned and he wants to do the right thing and he

03:13:35.760 --> 03:13:37.440
wants to do it the right way.

03:13:37.440 --> 03:13:41.690
And I just, for one resident in this area, just want to let

03:13:41.690 --> 03:13:44.440
you know that I'm not the only one.

03:13:44.440 --> 03:13:46.440
I may be the only one here tonight that's in favor of it,

03:13:46.440 --> 03:13:50.639
but there's a handful of us over there that see this as a

03:13:50.639 --> 03:13:53.440
good thing and see this as progress in the right direction.

03:13:53.440 --> 03:13:57.850
And they've worked with TechStat to get improvements done

03:13:57.850 --> 03:14:01.889
faster than the next eight years that it would have took to

03:14:01.889 --> 03:14:03.440
do it without this.

03:14:03.440 --> 03:14:08.010
So it's just, everything he's done has been first class and

03:14:08.010 --> 03:14:11.440
has been done the right way in my opinion.

03:14:11.440 --> 03:14:15.159
And these people that haven't been in the loop, I guess

03:14:15.159 --> 03:14:18.440
haven't tried to put themselves in the loop.

03:14:18.440 --> 03:14:21.329
Once I heard about it, I've been at, like I said, the

03:14:21.329 --> 03:14:24.909
council meetings, I've been to the public hearings, and I

03:14:24.909 --> 03:14:28.440
've just made myself a part of this.

03:14:28.440 --> 03:14:30.440
And like I said, my house backs up right to it.

03:14:30.440 --> 03:14:35.139
I'm going to be affected more than most people because my

03:14:35.139 --> 03:14:38.440
backyard is going to be right there.

03:14:38.440 --> 03:14:42.229
But like I said, I think the steps that he's taken and the

03:14:42.229 --> 03:14:46.440
things he's done for us, in my opinion, are a good thing.

03:14:46.440 --> 03:14:48.440
Thank you.

03:14:48.440 --> 03:14:50.440
Thank you for your comments.

03:14:50.440 --> 03:14:52.440
At this time, again, this is a public hearing.

03:14:52.440 --> 03:14:56.329
Anyone else who would like to speak on this item, please

03:14:56.329 --> 03:14:58.440
come forward at this time.

03:14:58.440 --> 03:14:59.440
Please come forward, sir.

03:14:59.440 --> 03:15:01.399
And after you give your comments, if you'll fill out a card

03:15:01.399 --> 03:15:02.440
, we would appreciate it.

03:15:02.440 --> 03:15:04.440
Please state your name and address for the record.

03:15:04.440 --> 03:15:09.440
My name is Norris Lewis, 2504 Shenandoah Trail.

03:15:09.440 --> 03:15:12.440
Boy, I live right in the center of the pond.

03:15:12.440 --> 03:15:15.500
I mean, you step in my backyard and there it is, my wife

03:15:15.500 --> 03:15:18.750
and the lady next door every morning at 9 o'clock feed the

03:15:18.750 --> 03:15:19.440
ducks.

03:15:19.440 --> 03:15:23.620
There's anywhere from 50 to 75 ducks just on the other side

03:15:23.620 --> 03:15:25.440
of our barbed wire fence.

03:15:25.440 --> 03:15:28.989
And in the meeting that the owner was there a few months

03:15:28.989 --> 03:15:33.440
ago, and I don't remember his name, but he gave some things

03:15:33.440 --> 03:15:35.440
that might be done with the pond.

03:15:35.440 --> 03:15:39.100
And one of them was he might give it to the city and the

03:15:39.100 --> 03:15:41.440
city could turn it into a park.

03:15:41.440 --> 03:15:42.440
We don't want that.

03:15:42.440 --> 03:15:45.440
That would put people out there.

03:15:45.440 --> 03:15:47.440
And we just it's nice.

03:15:47.440 --> 03:15:48.440
It's beautiful.

03:15:48.440 --> 03:15:50.440
Come into my backyard and look at it.

03:15:50.440 --> 03:15:53.920
It's beautiful place out there and the ducks would be run

03:15:53.920 --> 03:15:54.440
off.

03:15:54.440 --> 03:15:56.440
And it's just very nice.

03:15:56.440 --> 03:15:58.440
And that's my thought.

03:15:58.440 --> 03:15:59.440
Thank you for your comments, sir.

03:15:59.440 --> 03:16:02.440
Please fill out a card for us.

03:16:02.440 --> 03:16:04.440
Again, this is a public hearing.

03:16:04.440 --> 03:16:07.139
Anyone who would like to speak on this item, please come

03:16:07.139 --> 03:16:08.440
forward at this time.

03:16:08.440 --> 03:16:14.440
I did mention I just wanted to say my name is my brain.

03:16:14.440 --> 03:16:15.440
Please come forward to the mic.

03:16:15.440 --> 03:16:21.440
We'll give you the opportunity to make one final comment.

03:16:21.440 --> 03:16:25.110
My neighbor brought up that the lady that lives at 2604

03:16:25.110 --> 03:16:28.469
brought up that she has a drainage system in her backyard

03:16:28.469 --> 03:16:31.440
because we have sunk.

03:16:31.440 --> 03:16:34.079
That whole area has sunk because originally it was supposed

03:16:34.079 --> 03:16:36.479
to be at the highest point the water would drain through

03:16:36.479 --> 03:16:38.440
everybody's yard to her drainage system.

03:16:38.440 --> 03:16:41.870
But because of the pond and the aquifers, we've sunk to the

03:16:41.870 --> 03:16:44.440
point that it no longer drains that way.

03:16:44.440 --> 03:16:47.309
So my husband and I at our own expense had to put in a

03:16:47.309 --> 03:16:50.790
drainage in our backyard that drains to the street, to the

03:16:50.790 --> 03:16:51.440
sewers.

03:16:51.440 --> 03:16:55.860
So whatever comes into our backyard, so ecologically, EPA-

03:16:55.860 --> 03:16:59.579
wise, whatever comes into our backyard through that water is

03:16:59.579 --> 03:17:00.440
going to end up in our sewer system.

03:17:00.440 --> 03:17:03.440
So I just want you guys to be aware of that.

03:17:03.440 --> 03:17:07.250
So as we're talking about contamination to water, it is

03:17:07.250 --> 03:17:09.440
going to end up in the sewage.

03:17:09.440 --> 03:17:12.440
Thank you for your additional comment.

03:17:12.440 --> 03:17:16.100
So public hearing, anyone else who would like to speak on

03:17:16.100 --> 03:17:19.569
this item or has a final comment before I close the public

03:17:19.569 --> 03:17:20.440
hearing?

03:17:20.440 --> 03:17:26.440
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing on this item.

03:17:26.440 --> 03:17:30.610
And before I open it up for discussion on the board, I want

03:17:30.610 --> 03:17:33.209
to make a couple of comments and observations of what we

03:17:33.209 --> 03:17:35.440
have before us as a commission.

03:17:35.440 --> 03:17:38.709
The particular use that we have on this property is allowed

03:17:38.709 --> 03:17:39.440
by right.

03:17:39.440 --> 03:17:42.440
That is not before this commission tonight.

03:17:42.440 --> 03:17:44.440
This use can go in there.

03:17:44.440 --> 03:17:46.440
Other uses can go in there.

03:17:46.440 --> 03:17:49.309
It is zoned properly for this use, so that's not before

03:17:49.309 --> 03:17:50.440
this commission.

03:17:50.440 --> 03:17:53.530
The second item is that the only item that we're going to

03:17:53.530 --> 03:17:56.879
be considering at this time is going to be this alternative

03:17:56.879 --> 03:17:57.440
ESA.

03:17:57.440 --> 03:18:01.100
After this commission votes on this, it will move forward

03:18:01.100 --> 03:18:02.440
on to city council.

03:18:02.440 --> 03:18:06.520
So for all of you all who have questions or concerns, I

03:18:06.520 --> 03:18:10.110
urge all of you to move on to city council and bring those

03:18:10.110 --> 03:18:10.440
things.

03:18:10.440 --> 03:18:13.840
And the number of items that have been brought up from a

03:18:13.840 --> 03:18:18.440
wildlife assessment, I will ask, I believe, either Deborah

03:18:18.440 --> 03:18:19.440
or Julie to address that.

03:18:19.440 --> 03:18:21.440
I believe there was a question about that.

03:18:21.440 --> 03:18:24.930
And then some of these other comments from buffers on the

03:18:24.930 --> 03:18:28.809
east side of the lake, the mason wall, and the viability of

03:18:28.809 --> 03:18:31.440
the 50-foot landscape buffer.

03:18:31.440 --> 03:18:34.629
Again, those are things that can be brought to the

03:18:34.629 --> 03:18:38.069
applicant and discussed, and those things can be handled

03:18:38.069 --> 03:18:40.440
all the way up until we have our final plat.

03:18:40.440 --> 03:18:43.469
And that, again, will come before this commission, and then

03:18:43.469 --> 03:18:45.440
it will go again before city council.

03:18:45.440 --> 03:18:48.299
So there is still opportunity for all of you all who have

03:18:48.299 --> 03:18:51.639
concerns or would like some additional items addressed to

03:18:51.639 --> 03:18:54.670
have those things brought back before this commission and

03:18:54.670 --> 03:18:55.440
also before city council.

03:18:55.440 --> 03:18:59.690
And I urge all of you all to use your opportunities to do

03:18:59.690 --> 03:19:00.440
that.

03:19:00.440 --> 03:19:02.920
With that said, I will call on, I don't know, who would

03:19:02.920 --> 03:19:05.500
like to come forward on the wildlife assessment to address

03:19:05.500 --> 03:19:08.440
that question, and then we'll open it up for discussion.

03:19:16.440 --> 03:19:19.020
As a part of the field assessment, when we found a creek

03:19:19.020 --> 03:19:26.440
that is actually running, flowing,

03:19:26.440 --> 03:19:31.899
the assessment will include a biological indicator, mainly

03:19:31.899 --> 03:19:35.440
the organism that lives in the water.

03:19:35.440 --> 03:19:41.290
Okay, the assessment that it was done in 2008 indicated

03:19:41.290 --> 03:19:45.649
that at that time the stream was not flowing, therefore

03:19:45.649 --> 03:19:47.979
there was not a biological assessment of the creatures that

03:19:47.979 --> 03:19:49.440
were in the water.

03:19:49.440 --> 03:19:52.469
When it comes down to wildlife, we're talking about mainly

03:19:52.469 --> 03:19:54.440
mammals, amphibians, and so on.

03:19:54.440 --> 03:19:58.450
That type of assessment, the assessment that the city

03:19:58.450 --> 03:20:02.399
performed or required from third party to be done doesn't

03:20:02.399 --> 03:20:03.440
include wildlife.

03:20:03.440 --> 03:20:08.819
But we do it when the, we do an assessment of the creatures

03:20:08.819 --> 03:20:13.440
in the water if the creek is actually flowing.

03:20:13.440 --> 03:20:18.530
Okay, great. Thank you for the comment and clarification on

03:20:18.530 --> 03:20:21.440
what we have studied up until this point.

03:20:21.440 --> 03:20:24.450
I'm now going to open it up for discussion on our

03:20:24.450 --> 03:20:28.440
commission, and I recognize Commissioner Beck first.

03:20:28.440 --> 03:20:30.440
Quick question for David.

03:20:30.440 --> 03:20:34.440
Sorry. Don't sit in the back row.

03:20:34.440 --> 03:20:36.959
Deborah, did you wear your Fitbit like me today because you

03:20:36.959 --> 03:20:38.440
're getting all your steps in.

03:20:38.440 --> 03:20:42.440
You moved too quick. Sorry about that.

03:20:42.440 --> 03:20:43.440
How can I help?

03:20:43.440 --> 03:20:46.959
What is the possibility of doing some kind of assessment

03:20:46.959 --> 03:20:48.440
for wildlife there?

03:20:48.440 --> 03:20:50.440
I mean, a lot of people are concerned about it.

03:20:50.440 --> 03:20:52.440
How difficult would that be to?

03:20:52.440 --> 03:21:00.559
Well, that is not part of a typical field assessment. That

03:21:00.559 --> 03:21:01.909
would be something that the applicant can take it upon

03:21:01.909 --> 03:21:02.440
himself to do it.

03:21:02.440 --> 03:21:07.469
They will have to hire certified biologists to do that and

03:21:07.469 --> 03:21:08.440
to do it.

03:21:08.440 --> 03:21:13.569
It is not a requirement of a ESA field assessment at this

03:21:13.569 --> 03:21:17.829
point, but it is completely up to the applicant to provide

03:21:17.829 --> 03:21:18.440
that.

03:21:18.440 --> 03:21:22.610
We will certainly review it, and if we have any questions

03:21:22.610 --> 03:21:27.129
about the procedures, methodologies used, or so on, we will

03:21:27.129 --> 03:21:30.440
have that type of conversation.

03:21:30.440 --> 03:21:32.440
But it is completely up to the applicant.

03:21:32.440 --> 03:21:35.440
Okay. Thanks, Deborah.

03:21:35.440 --> 03:21:36.440
Commissioner Bruebel.

03:21:36.440 --> 03:21:39.440
Deborah, you might want to stay close by.

03:21:39.440 --> 03:21:43.409
I'm not sure who to direct this question to, but both Mr.

03:21:43.409 --> 03:21:47.459
Chance and Ms. Rosenberg had spoken about runoff from the

03:21:47.459 --> 03:21:48.440
parking lot.

03:21:48.440 --> 03:21:50.649
And I know, Deborah, we spoke a little bit about that in

03:21:50.649 --> 03:21:53.680
the work session about, for example, like Razor Ranch has

03:21:53.680 --> 03:21:57.799
those neat little cutouts to help clean their water as it

03:21:57.799 --> 03:22:00.440
moves through the parking lot.

03:22:00.440 --> 03:22:04.520
That was done because they had requested more parking, and

03:22:04.520 --> 03:22:08.440
so that was a mitigating factor that they -- whatever.

03:22:08.440 --> 03:22:12.719
So my question is, as we're looking at the water quality

03:22:12.719 --> 03:22:17.440
and we're looking at the fact that there are 96 gas pumps

03:22:17.440 --> 03:22:20.979
and a highway right next to a residential neighborhood, was

03:22:20.979 --> 03:22:26.170
talk of some sort of runoff into the -- there was like a

03:22:26.170 --> 03:22:30.440
dry retainment pond.

03:22:30.440 --> 03:22:33.750
So as I understand it, the parking lot is not going to be

03:22:33.750 --> 03:22:37.219
draining into the riparian habitat, which would then go

03:22:37.219 --> 03:22:40.239
into the pond so that these storm scepters would be

03:22:40.239 --> 03:22:43.440
filtering out the runoff from the parking lot.

03:22:43.440 --> 03:22:44.440
The water is not flowing that way.

03:22:44.440 --> 03:22:46.440
It's flowing directly south.

03:22:46.440 --> 03:22:48.840
But we're still talking about water quality, and we're

03:22:48.840 --> 03:22:51.129
talking about things that we can do if they're going to

03:22:51.129 --> 03:22:53.440
disturb this environmentally sensitive area.

03:22:53.440 --> 03:22:57.260
There are some mitigations that could be made to minimize

03:22:57.260 --> 03:22:59.440
the destruction to this area.

03:22:59.440 --> 03:23:02.459
Was there any talk at any point of creating some sort of

03:23:02.459 --> 03:23:05.879
filtration system coming off of that parking lot, since we

03:23:05.879 --> 03:23:08.440
're losing some riparian habitat to the west?

03:23:08.440 --> 03:23:13.540
Maybe there's something that could be done to the south to

03:23:13.540 --> 03:23:19.069
protect the neighborhood from the runoff of the development

03:23:19.069 --> 03:23:19.440
.

03:23:19.440 --> 03:23:23.309
Most of the time when we look for mitigation, we're looking

03:23:23.309 --> 03:23:27.100
-- we analyze nexus, what have been disturbed, and where

03:23:27.100 --> 03:23:29.440
the mitigation is going to be.

03:23:29.440 --> 03:23:33.760
In this case, the applicant has proposed mitigation that

03:23:33.760 --> 03:23:37.840
will come from the affected area, from the parking lots of

03:23:37.840 --> 03:23:40.440
those out parcels into the stream buffer.

03:23:40.440 --> 03:23:44.440
In that case, we have the nexus right there.

03:23:44.440 --> 03:23:48.750
Request any water quality features for the impervious

03:23:48.750 --> 03:23:52.440
surface coming off the gas station.

03:23:52.440 --> 03:23:55.440
At this point, we don't have a requirement.

03:23:55.440 --> 03:24:01.440
However, if by any chance they deviate from any standards,

03:24:01.440 --> 03:24:06.440
for example, parking spaces for the gas station itself,

03:24:06.440 --> 03:24:10.280
then that will be an opportunity for staff to start the

03:24:10.280 --> 03:24:14.350
dialogue of what type of mitigation they will do in those

03:24:14.350 --> 03:24:15.440
instances.

03:24:15.440 --> 03:24:19.920
But at this point, I don't have a regulations that require

03:24:19.920 --> 03:24:24.440
gas station to provide any type of water quality features.

03:24:24.440 --> 03:24:29.819
That doesn't close the opportunity to have that discussion

03:24:29.819 --> 03:24:34.829
in the future if they decide to require excess parking or

03:24:34.829 --> 03:24:37.440
anything of that nature.

03:24:37.440 --> 03:24:40.440
So here's my counterpoint to that. It's twofold.

03:24:40.440 --> 03:24:44.420
One is that we're looking at the entire lot, the entire

03:24:44.420 --> 03:24:45.440
property.

03:24:45.440 --> 03:24:49.170
I imagine that other ESA mitigation alternative plans have

03:24:49.170 --> 03:24:52.680
been done when you look at the entire property, not just

03:24:52.680 --> 03:24:54.440
that one specific area.

03:24:54.440 --> 03:24:58.309
So there possibly could be something done somewhere else on

03:24:58.309 --> 03:24:59.440
the property.

03:24:59.440 --> 03:25:01.690
My second point is that when they're replacing some of

03:25:01.690 --> 03:25:03.959
these trees that they're cutting down, even you admitted in

03:25:03.959 --> 03:25:06.729
the work session, they're not putting that in the wetland

03:25:06.729 --> 03:25:07.440
habitat.

03:25:07.440 --> 03:25:09.440
They're putting them in a dryland habitat.

03:25:09.440 --> 03:25:13.309
So really, what's the difference if you move that, if you

03:25:13.309 --> 03:25:17.440
add another mitigation factor 200 feet to the east?

03:25:17.440 --> 03:25:19.930
I mean, you're still not replacing anything that we're

03:25:19.930 --> 03:25:23.430
losing in the wetland habitat, but you're hopefully

03:25:23.430 --> 03:25:28.440
improving the water quality from the entire property.

03:25:28.440 --> 03:25:32.450
Would that be, and just to be able to answer your question,

03:25:32.450 --> 03:25:36.079
would that be in addition to what is being proposed,

03:25:36.079 --> 03:25:38.440
mitigation or in exchange of?

03:25:38.440 --> 03:25:41.049
Well, I mean, I think Commissioner Taylor made a great

03:25:41.049 --> 03:25:44.790
point that we've seen other alternative ESAs that are a two

03:25:44.790 --> 03:25:47.440
to one or a three to one was done in Unicorn Lake.

03:25:47.440 --> 03:25:50.440
And this is almost a one to one mitigation factor.

03:25:50.440 --> 03:25:54.709
So I would like to see something significantly more than

03:25:54.709 --> 03:25:57.440
what's being proposed to us now.

03:25:57.440 --> 03:26:01.260
If this body does the desire of the body, I will say we

03:26:01.260 --> 03:26:05.469
will have to approach the applicant and see the viability

03:26:05.469 --> 03:26:06.440
of that.

03:26:06.440 --> 03:26:10.590
Definitely, whatever they can do for water quality, the

03:26:10.590 --> 03:26:13.120
staff will be able to sit down with them and discuss and

03:26:13.120 --> 03:26:15.440
brainstorm what they're proposing.

03:26:15.440 --> 03:26:18.809
But that will be something that it will have to come as a

03:26:18.809 --> 03:26:21.440
condition for approval at this point.

03:26:21.440 --> 03:26:24.559
Or would that be something that could come back to us so we

03:26:24.559 --> 03:26:26.440
could see what they proposed?

03:26:26.440 --> 03:26:29.440
We could postpone for a future date.

03:26:29.440 --> 03:26:29.440
Correct.

03:26:29.440 --> 03:26:32.610
And see what other mitigation factors they have included in

03:26:32.610 --> 03:26:33.440
their plan.

03:26:33.440 --> 03:26:36.440
That's definitely possible.

03:26:36.440 --> 03:26:38.440
Thank you.

03:26:38.440 --> 03:26:40.440
Commissioner Hatchbeth.

03:26:40.440 --> 03:26:41.440
Thank you, sir.

03:26:41.440 --> 03:26:43.440
I have a list.

03:26:43.440 --> 03:26:44.440
So bear with me.

03:26:44.440 --> 03:26:50.920
First, top of mind, I have to beg to differ on Unicorn Lake

03:26:50.920 --> 03:26:51.440
.

03:26:51.440 --> 03:26:54.440
That's not apples to apples at all.

03:26:54.440 --> 03:27:01.350
As far as the amount of land use, I mean, look at an area

03:27:01.350 --> 03:27:05.440
of Unicorn Lake and factor in the new addition that's going

03:27:05.440 --> 03:27:11.440
into the north of the movie theater there.

03:27:11.440 --> 03:27:16.459
There's absolutely zero green space for as far as the eye

03:27:16.459 --> 03:27:17.440
can see.

03:27:17.440 --> 03:27:21.709
And so to compare the mitigation to something that is solid

03:27:21.709 --> 03:27:25.879
cement to something to a developer that is made a consider

03:27:25.879 --> 03:27:30.440
ate -- so you're talking 300 feet, that's 100 yards.

03:27:30.440 --> 03:27:35.040
So that would be like saying sitting in the end zone or

03:27:35.040 --> 03:27:39.840
sitting a football field away from the end zone are good

03:27:39.840 --> 03:27:42.440
seats for a football game.

03:27:42.440 --> 03:27:47.440
You're so far away.

03:27:47.440 --> 03:27:51.190
And so I think it's an error to compare Unicorn Lake to

03:27:51.190 --> 03:27:55.379
this project when it comes to mitigation because they have

03:27:55.379 --> 03:27:59.440
built in 100 yards, to use football examples, worth of

03:27:59.440 --> 03:28:04.440
mitigation in advance of going one for one on what they're

03:28:04.440 --> 03:28:04.440
taking out.

03:28:04.440 --> 03:28:09.440
So I think your math is off to say that it's one for one.

03:28:09.440 --> 03:28:14.340
I think it's considerably much more based on the fact that

03:28:14.340 --> 03:28:18.440
they're not utilizing the entire property.

03:28:18.440 --> 03:28:24.000
And then I have to follow the chair's direction and zero in

03:28:24.000 --> 03:28:27.440
on what we're tasked with today.

03:28:27.440 --> 03:28:33.440
And so that's not to consider the gas pumps.

03:28:33.440 --> 03:28:36.709
That's to consider that small area that's the other side of

03:28:36.709 --> 03:28:37.440
the lake.

03:28:37.440 --> 03:28:40.440
So -- or the pond.

03:28:40.440 --> 03:28:44.760
So to think that something concerning that to the north of

03:28:44.760 --> 03:28:49.479
the pond would somehow make its way around the pond all the

03:28:49.479 --> 03:28:57.440
way to the back of the property, 300 yards down to the

03:28:57.440 --> 03:29:01.840
residents, to the drainage that's not being monitored in

03:29:01.840 --> 03:29:06.440
the neighborhood, I think that's a little onerous and I don

03:29:06.440 --> 03:29:06.440
't think it's worth it.

03:29:06.440 --> 03:29:09.440
I don't think it's what we're tasked with today.

03:29:09.440 --> 03:29:13.440
And then we've had a hearty discussion.

03:29:13.440 --> 03:29:16.440
The citizens have spoke.

03:29:16.440 --> 03:29:20.440
There were, I count, nine people that came down.

03:29:20.440 --> 03:29:25.440
One plus, one for, eight against.

03:29:25.440 --> 03:29:31.430
Not one mention of what we're tasked with today, which is

03:29:31.430 --> 03:29:35.440
that area at the top north of the property.

03:29:35.440 --> 03:29:39.440
But for the canopy and the tree placement.

03:29:39.440 --> 03:29:46.510
I can give you a list of noise buffer, light buffer, 50

03:29:46.510 --> 03:29:49.440
foot buffer, trees.

03:29:49.440 --> 03:29:50.440
And so there's a myriad.

03:29:50.440 --> 03:29:53.590
I won't read you the whole list, but I wrote it all down

03:29:53.590 --> 03:29:55.440
because it's all important.

03:29:55.440 --> 03:29:59.440
So I just think that we do need to refocus.

03:29:59.440 --> 03:30:03.290
I do think Mr. Rizal makes a great point, the trees, to add

03:30:03.290 --> 03:30:07.440
the language that it be in that particular area, in a

03:30:07.440 --> 03:30:11.440
certain area, determined in a certain area.

03:30:11.440 --> 03:30:14.739
But I just think it, for me, again, looking at aerial map,

03:30:14.739 --> 03:30:17.879
you can't get back on the highway before you reach Unicorn

03:30:17.879 --> 03:30:18.440
Lake.

03:30:18.440 --> 03:30:22.420
So if Unicorn Lake received an exception and we talk about

03:30:22.420 --> 03:30:24.440
consistency constantly,

03:30:24.440 --> 03:30:28.280
then I find it difficult to say, well, before you can get

03:30:28.280 --> 03:30:31.459
back on I-35, we're going to have a total different

03:30:31.459 --> 03:30:34.120
approach to this property that's using a lot less of the

03:30:34.120 --> 03:30:34.440
land.

03:30:34.440 --> 03:30:38.569
And whereas Unicorn Lake is continually filling in with

03:30:38.569 --> 03:30:39.440
cement.

03:30:39.440 --> 03:30:41.440
So that's my two cents worth.

03:30:41.440 --> 03:30:42.440
Thank you.

03:30:42.440 --> 03:30:44.440
Thank you.

03:30:44.440 --> 03:30:46.440
Commissioner Taylor.

03:30:46.440 --> 03:30:50.440
Thank you, Chair.

03:30:50.440 --> 03:30:57.159
So I will return to the -- we know that the road diagram is

03:30:57.159 --> 03:30:58.440
incorrect right now.

03:30:58.440 --> 03:31:01.440
We know that some things are going to have to change.

03:31:01.440 --> 03:31:06.440
And that road currently encroaches on that 50-foot buffer.

03:31:06.440 --> 03:31:09.440
I'm curious about the exact wording of the buffer because I

03:31:09.440 --> 03:31:12.629
would also assume there would be a radius on the buffer at

03:31:12.629 --> 03:31:16.280
the corner of the last residential lot to the very far

03:31:16.280 --> 03:31:17.440
north lot there.

03:31:17.440 --> 03:31:21.440
And that wasn't represented in the diagram we've seen.

03:31:21.440 --> 03:31:26.459
And I think that in the 13,000 square feet disturbed and

03:31:26.459 --> 03:31:29.989
the mitigation for that, that very well might be a much

03:31:29.989 --> 03:31:33.440
smaller number disturbed once the plan becomes finalized,

03:31:33.440 --> 03:31:37.250
especially if that end gets reduced to two lanes of traffic

03:31:37.250 --> 03:31:40.440
or shifted slightly or whatever may happen.

03:31:40.440 --> 03:31:45.200
But what we have in front of us, this .1% additional

03:31:45.200 --> 03:31:48.440
mitigation and lower canopy numbers,

03:31:48.440 --> 03:31:51.930
and I agree with Commissioner Briegel that mitigation

03:31:51.930 --> 03:31:57.760
anywhere in the area, if it's mitigation on the -- it's

03:31:57.760 --> 03:32:00.440
very hard because this is kind of north.

03:32:00.440 --> 03:32:05.569
North is to the left on this, but mitigation in the

03:32:05.569 --> 03:32:11.659
southeast side of the existing lake or additional ESA, up

03:32:11.659 --> 03:32:17.850
land ESA along the northeast side of the lake or any other

03:32:17.850 --> 03:32:18.440
possibility.

03:32:18.440 --> 03:32:20.360
There are a lot of possibilities here, and especially if

03:32:20.360 --> 03:32:23.459
you already have plans for some kind of landscape buffer,

03:32:23.459 --> 03:32:27.440
make it permanent and declared an ESA.

03:32:27.440 --> 03:32:31.280
And I do get a little more clarification about what the 50-

03:32:31.280 --> 03:32:33.440
foot landscape buffer will be.

03:32:33.440 --> 03:32:37.100
And if there are concerns, either from the applicant or

03:32:37.100 --> 03:32:40.690
from the neighborhood regarding the requirements of the

03:32:40.690 --> 03:32:41.440
overlay,

03:32:41.440 --> 03:32:43.840
I think we could look at the overlay at the same time if

03:32:43.840 --> 03:32:45.440
the applicant wants to do that.

03:32:45.440 --> 03:32:48.559
But I think we can't -- we don't know what the answer is

03:32:48.559 --> 03:32:51.440
going to be, and we're leaving a whole lot of wiggle room

03:32:51.440 --> 03:32:55.440
and without a lot of outcome -- without a lot of safeties.

03:32:55.440 --> 03:32:59.110
So for this reason, I would like to move to postpone this

03:32:59.110 --> 03:33:01.440
to date certain of our next meeting,

03:33:01.440 --> 03:33:03.440
and hopefully this can come forward with the final plat,

03:33:03.440 --> 03:33:05.750
because the final plat, you'll know where the road is and

03:33:05.750 --> 03:33:09.440
you'll know where that 50-foot buffer is.

03:33:09.440 --> 03:33:13.260
And we can nail down the square foot disturbed and any

03:33:13.260 --> 03:33:16.440
additional mitigation that gets added.

03:33:16.440 --> 03:33:19.719
I'm going to call on staff to ask if they have any timeline

03:33:19.719 --> 03:33:22.440
on the final plat before we entertain that.

03:33:22.440 --> 03:33:26.440
Thank you, Chairperson Strange. I was just trying to run

03:33:26.440 --> 03:33:26.440
the schedule in my mind.

03:33:26.440 --> 03:33:28.659
I do not know when the final plat will be submitted. That

03:33:28.659 --> 03:33:31.440
is something we would have to discuss with the applicant.

03:33:31.440 --> 03:33:35.440
So two weeks might be too premature. I do not know.

03:33:35.440 --> 03:33:37.190
But it's something we can maybe ask the applicant to tell

03:33:37.190 --> 03:33:38.440
us when they anticipate submitting,

03:33:38.440 --> 03:33:41.590
because we also have a review time associated with the

03:33:41.590 --> 03:33:42.440
final plat.

03:33:42.440 --> 03:33:46.440
So it wouldn't be just a couple of weeks.

03:33:46.440 --> 03:33:49.629
And I could adjust my motion to the correct date, whether

03:33:49.629 --> 03:33:51.440
it's four weeks, six weeks.

03:33:51.440 --> 03:33:54.989
Or if we could just seek legal counsel if we could say once

03:33:54.989 --> 03:33:58.190
final plat is submitted and ready to be placed on an agenda

03:33:58.190 --> 03:33:59.440
. I don't know.

03:33:59.440 --> 03:34:05.370
Excuse me. I think that would be just a motion to postpone

03:34:05.370 --> 03:34:08.440
indefinitely and set a four-date certain.

03:34:08.440 --> 03:34:15.069
And I would move to postpone indefinitely pending

03:34:15.069 --> 03:34:19.440
submission of the final plat.

03:34:19.440 --> 03:34:23.440
I have a first and.

03:34:23.440 --> 03:34:25.840
I'm trying to second, but my button's not on. I know. I'm

03:34:25.840 --> 03:34:26.440
waiting on you.

03:34:26.440 --> 03:34:30.569
Can I second that? Oh, Larry beat me to it. All right. You

03:34:30.569 --> 03:34:31.440
get credit this time.

03:34:31.440 --> 03:34:34.700
Well, I don't know on our board. I think we may have gotten

03:34:34.700 --> 03:34:35.440
out of turn.

03:34:35.440 --> 03:34:39.100
I think Devin just had a request to speak. And I think when

03:34:39.100 --> 03:34:42.700
you chimed in, you became the motioner rather than the

03:34:42.700 --> 03:34:43.440
seconder.

03:34:43.440 --> 03:34:45.440
So the board has now been corrected.

03:34:45.440 --> 03:34:49.450
Commissioner Taylor has made a motion and we have a second

03:34:49.450 --> 03:34:51.440
er of Commissioner Bruegel.

03:34:51.440 --> 03:34:56.180
If you'd like to make your recognized Commissioner Bruegel

03:34:56.180 --> 03:34:57.440
for a second.

03:34:57.440 --> 03:35:01.440
Oh, no. Sorry. Yes. No, I second that motion. Yes. Pardon.

03:35:01.440 --> 03:35:07.069
We have a. We have a first. I'm sorry, Chair. I did have a

03:35:07.069 --> 03:35:08.440
question, though.

03:35:08.440 --> 03:35:11.440
I'm going to open it for discussion. Okay.

03:35:11.440 --> 03:35:15.280
We have a first and second before us to table this item

03:35:15.280 --> 03:35:18.440
indefinitely pending a final plat.

03:35:18.440 --> 03:35:24.440
And I'm going to open it for discussion on this motion.

03:35:24.440 --> 03:35:27.440
Commissioner Beck. Okay. It wasn't on this motion, though.

03:35:27.440 --> 03:35:30.440
I was just curious. Mr. Evans made a good point.

03:35:30.440 --> 03:35:35.610
Why we're not counting tree mitigation with that part of

03:35:35.610 --> 03:35:39.770
the road just adjacent to the repairing buffer that we're

03:35:39.770 --> 03:35:40.440
going to be removing.

03:35:40.440 --> 03:35:42.989
As that road comes in there to the west of it, I guess it

03:35:42.989 --> 03:35:43.440
may.

03:35:43.440 --> 03:35:48.840
There are some trees there. Were they not part of the

03:35:48.840 --> 03:35:50.440
mitigation?

03:35:50.440 --> 03:35:52.649
Julie, would you please put up with my. I think what you're

03:35:52.649 --> 03:35:55.440
referring to when we talk about mitigation,

03:35:55.440 --> 03:35:58.790
I don't want to confuse mitigation as it relates to our

03:35:58.790 --> 03:36:02.909
tree code and as it relates to mitigation for development

03:36:02.909 --> 03:36:04.440
or to go vertical.

03:36:04.440 --> 03:36:07.569
But if we're specifically referring to the mitigation as it

03:36:07.569 --> 03:36:10.559
relates to the hatched area on that exhibit that you see on

03:36:10.559 --> 03:36:13.440
your screen, is that what you're referring to?

03:36:13.440 --> 03:36:17.440
Yes. We're obviously going to.

03:36:17.440 --> 03:36:19.649
Applicants obviously going to have to pull some trees out

03:36:19.649 --> 03:36:21.440
of there to bring that road through there.

03:36:21.440 --> 03:36:25.649
Yes. Were we addressing those trees, too, when we were

03:36:25.649 --> 03:36:27.440
talking? No.

03:36:27.440 --> 03:36:29.440
Not as part of this request. No.

03:36:29.440 --> 03:36:33.319
The request before you is to review the opportunity to

03:36:33.319 --> 03:36:37.680
create an alternative ESA, an alternative environmentally

03:36:37.680 --> 03:36:39.440
sensitive area.

03:36:39.440 --> 03:36:43.440
Because there is an area that is being impacted.

03:36:43.440 --> 03:36:49.440
The area that is being impacted is what would be mitigated.

03:36:49.440 --> 03:36:52.549
It would not be mitigated. And I'm going to, Deborah, use

03:36:52.549 --> 03:36:53.440
your term apples to apples,

03:36:53.440 --> 03:36:58.239
but it would be mitigated in a manner to achieve both types

03:36:58.239 --> 03:37:01.440
of elements such as gray and green.

03:37:01.440 --> 03:37:05.440
Okay. Okay. That's clarification. Thank you.

03:37:05.440 --> 03:37:08.440
Commissioner Roselle. Thank you, Chair.

03:37:08.440 --> 03:37:10.920
First, I want to thank everyone for coming out and staying

03:37:10.920 --> 03:37:13.440
late and providing input from the citizens perspective.

03:37:13.440 --> 03:37:15.920
We all have unique perspectives, so it's helpful to hear

03:37:15.920 --> 03:37:19.440
others. So I appreciate those concerns.

03:37:19.440 --> 03:37:23.319
I would try to steer the conversation back to where the

03:37:23.319 --> 03:37:26.440
Chair pointed us at the time of discussion.

03:37:26.440 --> 03:37:29.569
And I would just go on record, mimic a lot of what

03:37:29.569 --> 03:37:32.799
Commissioner Hudspeth said in terms of what we're charged

03:37:32.799 --> 03:37:33.440
with tonight.

03:37:33.440 --> 03:37:35.989
And a couple things that came to mind, as I noted, as

03:37:35.989 --> 03:37:39.190
Commissioner Taylor talked about the one-to-one mitigation

03:37:39.190 --> 03:37:42.819
not being enough compared to other potential ADPs that are

03:37:42.819 --> 03:37:43.440
approved.

03:37:43.440 --> 03:37:47.100
I haven't privy to other ADPs, so I don't know the nuances

03:37:47.100 --> 03:37:50.770
of other ADPs for ESA requirements, but I think it's worth

03:37:50.770 --> 03:37:54.440
noting that it's a one-to-one-ish mitigation on the trees.

03:37:54.440 --> 03:37:59.670
It's not on the maturity of canopy or on the gray solution

03:37:59.670 --> 03:38:01.440
they provided.

03:38:01.440 --> 03:38:04.540
So the mitigation is not just looking at trees to trees. It

03:38:04.540 --> 03:38:06.739
's looking at the totality of what they're trying to

03:38:06.739 --> 03:38:07.440
mitigate with.

03:38:07.440 --> 03:38:11.250
And I think providing two massively, seemingly what looks

03:38:11.250 --> 03:38:14.889
like expensive mechanical operations to help with water

03:38:14.889 --> 03:38:17.440
clarity goes into that mitigation.

03:38:17.440 --> 03:38:20.200
So I don't think it's a one-to-one, and I think it's

03:38:20.200 --> 03:38:23.389
selling short what the applicant's trying to do to say it's

03:38:23.389 --> 03:38:25.440
just a one-for-one mitigation.

03:38:25.440 --> 03:38:28.110
And then second of all, we've had a lot of talk about what

03:38:28.110 --> 03:38:30.770
to do with the road, what to do with buffers, what to do

03:38:30.770 --> 03:38:33.440
with landscape, and I don't think any of that's relevant.

03:38:33.440 --> 03:38:38.479
And if their road on this map shows that it's crossing into

03:38:38.479 --> 03:38:42.600
a landscape buffer, then it's on them to come back with a

03:38:42.600 --> 03:38:43.440
solution.

03:38:43.440 --> 03:38:47.760
We've presented it to them graciously. We've provided them

03:38:47.760 --> 03:38:50.440
an error to their road, it seems like.

03:38:50.440 --> 03:38:53.559
But that's not what we're doing tonight. We're not saying

03:38:53.559 --> 03:38:56.670
that road can't go there. I don't think that has to -- it

03:38:56.670 --> 03:38:59.440
shouldn't play into this vote at all.

03:38:59.440 --> 03:39:04.770
And then maybe the last thing is that square footage of ESA

03:39:04.770 --> 03:39:08.440
to be removed seems pretty defined.

03:39:08.440 --> 03:39:12.229
And so I'm not sure where the language of wiggle room comes

03:39:12.229 --> 03:39:14.440
in in terms of approving this.

03:39:14.440 --> 03:39:17.750
We're approving a set geographic area in which they can

03:39:17.750 --> 03:39:21.319
remove trees with the provision that these five things are

03:39:21.319 --> 03:39:22.440
taken care of.

03:39:22.440 --> 03:39:26.860
And if we look just at that, and that's what we're charged

03:39:26.860 --> 03:39:31.010
at tonight, I'm opposed of postponing this because that's

03:39:31.010 --> 03:39:33.889
not what -- it seems like we're postponing it to bring

03:39:33.889 --> 03:39:36.680
other things that aren't ever on this agenda to be

03:39:36.680 --> 03:39:38.440
discussed for this agenda item.

03:39:38.440 --> 03:39:40.540
And it goes back to what we talked about last meeting in

03:39:40.540 --> 03:39:42.790
terms of bringing other things into the agenda that's not

03:39:42.790 --> 03:39:44.440
necessarily what we're looking at.

03:39:44.440 --> 03:39:48.959
This isn't a Buckeyes thing. This isn't a buffer. This is

03:39:48.959 --> 03:39:53.180
should we allow a road to cut through an environmentally

03:39:53.180 --> 03:39:56.440
sensitive area provided there's some mitigation?

03:39:56.440 --> 03:40:02.219
And so for that reason, I couldn't support postponing this

03:40:02.219 --> 03:40:05.440
to bring in extraneous items.

03:40:05.440 --> 03:40:07.440
>> Commissioner Hodgebuth.

03:40:07.440 --> 03:40:16.000
>> Again, same points I'll add to that. Again, for the sake

03:40:16.000 --> 03:40:19.809
of consistency, I just -- I don't think this -- and yet it

03:40:19.809 --> 03:40:22.440
's absolutely on point with last week.

03:40:22.440 --> 03:40:28.280
So if we're going to approve a property just on its face

03:40:28.280 --> 03:40:32.920
and wait for the final clap, I think it's imperative that

03:40:32.920 --> 03:40:34.440
we show that consistency.

03:40:34.440 --> 03:40:42.270
And again, with the -- a proximity to Unicorn Lake to do

03:40:42.270 --> 03:40:48.979
for someone mere blocks away for someone and do it

03:40:48.979 --> 03:40:52.440
different here is -- sets a dangerous precedent.

03:40:52.440 --> 03:40:57.540
And to then say an applicant can no longer bifurcate how

03:40:57.540 --> 03:41:02.909
they present something to us is -- it just sets a dangerous

03:41:02.909 --> 03:41:04.440
precedent.

03:41:04.440 --> 03:41:09.299
And I think it's -- I don't think that's what's in front of

03:41:09.299 --> 03:41:10.440
us today.

03:41:10.440 --> 03:41:12.440
What's in front of us today is pretty clear.

03:41:12.440 --> 03:41:17.370
And so if the mover and the second wants to take issue with

03:41:17.370 --> 03:41:22.780
that specific issue, again, I have not heard anyone, not

03:41:22.780 --> 03:41:28.440
even a citizen, address that during the open discussion.

03:41:28.440 --> 03:41:34.440
There's no mention of the machinery to pump the new water.

03:41:34.440 --> 03:41:35.440
None of that was discussed.

03:41:35.440 --> 03:41:40.770
No issues with that were brought up during the public

03:41:40.770 --> 03:41:42.440
discussion.

03:41:42.440 --> 03:41:47.459
So I think for the task we have in front of us today to

03:41:47.459 --> 03:41:52.860
make a logical leap away from that task sets a dangerous

03:41:52.860 --> 03:41:54.440
precedent.

03:41:54.440 --> 03:41:57.440
I have the next request to speak.

03:41:57.440 --> 03:42:01.489
I'm going to echo the concerns of Commissioner Hussbuth and

03:42:01.489 --> 03:42:05.389
Roselle that I won't be supporting this motion and for the

03:42:05.389 --> 03:42:08.790
reason being is because the only item before us is the

03:42:08.790 --> 03:42:12.440
alternative ESA and that is the space that is defined.

03:42:12.440 --> 03:42:15.739
And if -- as has been pointed out to the applicant, if the

03:42:15.739 --> 03:42:18.909
road has to be moved and it falls outside the ESA, then

03:42:18.909 --> 03:42:22.440
they have to come back before us and revise their plan.

03:42:22.440 --> 03:42:25.440
And so that's their burden.

03:42:25.440 --> 03:42:28.440
I do believe also there are several other points of merit.

03:42:28.440 --> 03:42:32.100
I do believe the storm interceptors improve the existing

03:42:32.100 --> 03:42:34.440
water quality that's over there.

03:42:34.440 --> 03:42:37.610
Currently right now there is all the water that comes off

03:42:37.610 --> 03:42:40.440
of I-35 with all the pollutants come down.

03:42:40.440 --> 03:42:43.440
It is not filtered in any way and comes into that pond.

03:42:43.440 --> 03:42:48.100
I believe the storm interceptors will improve that as it is

03:42:48.100 --> 03:42:48.440
.

03:42:48.440 --> 03:42:52.850
I also like the layout having the road where it comes

03:42:52.850 --> 03:42:57.659
through the ESA because it is going to remove traffic off

03:42:57.659 --> 03:42:59.440
of the service road.

03:42:59.440 --> 03:43:02.930
And instead of having to have access points for each of

03:43:02.930 --> 03:43:06.930
these parcels and with an exit lane off of I-35, I'm very

03:43:06.930 --> 03:43:10.440
concerned about the safety of people coming off of I-35.

03:43:10.440 --> 03:43:15.530
And I think this is a good design and to have an ESA

03:43:15.530 --> 03:43:21.440
disturbed and then replaced over people's safety.

03:43:21.440 --> 03:43:25.610
I would put people's safety first that people have various

03:43:25.610 --> 03:43:29.860
points to access to this property versus multiple points on

03:43:29.860 --> 03:43:31.440
the service road.

03:43:31.440 --> 03:43:35.559
And then I also believe that currently the tree canopy is

03:43:35.559 --> 03:43:40.440
about 10,000 and the area as it is that's being added

03:43:40.440 --> 03:43:44.440
currently has a tree canopy of approximately 10,000 now.

03:43:44.440 --> 03:43:46.440
So it's almost a one-to-one now.

03:43:46.440 --> 03:43:49.440
And as those mature, it will double.

03:43:49.440 --> 03:43:51.440
It will be almost 20,000.

03:43:51.440 --> 03:43:55.440
So it will be a doubling of the tree canopy.

03:43:55.440 --> 03:43:58.440
And for those reasons, I will not support this motion.

03:43:58.440 --> 03:44:02.440
And I will recognize Commissioner Bruegel.

03:44:02.440 --> 03:44:04.440
Thank you, Chair.

03:44:04.440 --> 03:44:06.440
Got a couple of points.

03:44:06.440 --> 03:44:11.459
First, the Buc-E's can completely develop this property

03:44:11.459 --> 03:44:15.569
without needing to cross that riparian habitat because they

03:44:15.569 --> 03:44:18.440
do have that main road that cuts right through the middle.

03:44:18.440 --> 03:44:21.440
There's another road on the far end of the property.

03:44:21.440 --> 03:44:25.690
So you can still access all these lots without crossing the

03:44:25.690 --> 03:44:29.440
riparian habitat with the exception of lot two.

03:44:29.440 --> 03:44:32.909
But you could simply build that endpoint to lot two and

03:44:32.909 --> 03:44:36.440
then not connect it internally to these other ones.

03:44:36.440 --> 03:44:38.440
I could go back around.

03:44:38.440 --> 03:44:41.219
So you're still going to have the three access points to

03:44:41.219 --> 03:44:44.200
develop this property without needing all the curb cuts on

03:44:44.200 --> 03:44:45.440
the frontage road.

03:44:45.440 --> 03:44:51.440
Still, they are requesting to disturb a riparian habitat.

03:44:51.440 --> 03:44:55.579
And so I think that the city is obligated to ask for the

03:44:55.579 --> 03:45:00.020
best and highest development possible if they intend to

03:45:00.020 --> 03:45:01.440
disturb this.

03:45:01.440 --> 03:45:04.389
Commissioner Hutzpeth, I disagree with you when you said

03:45:04.389 --> 03:45:07.440
that no one had mentioned their concerns about this ESA.

03:45:07.440 --> 03:45:10.440
In fact, I counted four speakers this evening.

03:45:10.440 --> 03:45:13.440
Ms. Rosenberg talked about water quality.

03:45:13.440 --> 03:45:15.440
Mr. Drake talked about loss of trees.

03:45:15.440 --> 03:45:18.809
Ms. Squire talked about the need for more green space and

03:45:18.809 --> 03:45:22.440
that 40 years is too long for the canopy to be restored.

03:45:22.440 --> 03:45:25.440
Mr. Chance echoed a lot of those same comments.

03:45:25.440 --> 03:45:29.129
And so people were staying on point with regards to the ESA

03:45:29.129 --> 03:45:29.440
.

03:45:29.440 --> 03:45:33.170
And I think what we are tasked with here, I think, is

03:45:33.170 --> 03:45:37.440
exactly asking for more and more mitigation standards.

03:45:37.440 --> 03:45:42.540
I don't think planting eight trees and providing two storm

03:45:42.540 --> 03:45:49.440
scepters is frankly enough when you have a large

03:45:49.440 --> 03:45:52.440
development like this that's going to have a lot of runoff.

03:45:52.440 --> 03:45:56.530
And I think asking for more mitigation standards elsewhere

03:45:56.530 --> 03:46:00.110
on the property is a part and parcel of dealing with an

03:46:00.110 --> 03:46:02.440
alternative ESA design plan.

03:46:02.440 --> 03:46:05.079
So I do think that they can, that the Buc-E's can come back

03:46:05.079 --> 03:46:06.440
with something better.

03:46:06.440 --> 03:46:09.440
They have a lot of ingenuity.

03:46:09.440 --> 03:46:11.440
They've got a lot of creativity in their business model.

03:46:11.440 --> 03:46:14.440
They've got a lot of area to work with.

03:46:14.440 --> 03:46:18.690
I'm not opposed to this being there, but what's done is

03:46:18.690 --> 03:46:19.440
done.

03:46:19.440 --> 03:46:22.090
They're going to build, so let's make sure it's the best

03:46:22.090 --> 03:46:23.440
development we can get.

03:46:23.440 --> 03:46:27.540
And I think if we were to postpone this until they can come

03:46:27.540 --> 03:46:32.000
up with some more creative solutions on how to protect the

03:46:32.000 --> 03:46:35.440
water in that area and the land in that area,

03:46:35.440 --> 03:46:38.399
I think we owe that to the citizens to give Buc-E's another

03:46:38.399 --> 03:46:41.819
chance to go back to the drawing board and see what they

03:46:41.819 --> 03:46:43.440
can come up with.

03:46:43.440 --> 03:46:45.440
Commissioner Taylor.

03:46:45.440 --> 03:46:49.440
Thank you, Chair.

03:46:49.440 --> 03:46:53.969
So my main point in my motion to postpone was that we know

03:46:53.969 --> 03:46:55.440
this map is wrong.

03:46:55.440 --> 03:46:59.219
And we know that the outcome is going to be different than

03:46:59.219 --> 03:47:00.440
what's drawn.

03:47:00.440 --> 03:47:02.440
We know that road's moving.

03:47:02.440 --> 03:47:04.979
It might stay within the shaded area, and they might have

03:47:04.979 --> 03:47:06.440
to come back for a second ESA.

03:47:06.440 --> 03:47:09.920
They have said they're going to make the road smaller than

03:47:09.920 --> 03:47:11.440
it's on this drawing.

03:47:11.440 --> 03:47:16.440
So if we wait four weeks, we won't delay the project a day.

03:47:16.440 --> 03:47:21.170
And we can see have a better total, a better count of trees

03:47:21.170 --> 03:47:26.379
, a better total disturbed canopy, a better understanding of

03:47:26.379 --> 03:47:30.440
what the impact will actually be.

03:47:30.440 --> 03:47:34.549
And my other point was we don't have to mitigate within 100

03:47:34.549 --> 03:47:36.440
feet of disturbed ground.

03:47:36.440 --> 03:47:39.040
We have a large area to mitigate on, anywhere around the

03:47:39.040 --> 03:47:43.469
pond, anywhere in the neighborhood, I think, already has

03:47:43.469 --> 03:47:47.440
basically a habitat corridor here with the riparian buffer

03:47:47.440 --> 03:47:48.440
in the lake.

03:47:48.440 --> 03:47:51.049
So it could go on the other side of the lake, and it would

03:47:51.049 --> 03:47:54.440
still be beneficial, still serve its environmental purpose.

03:47:54.440 --> 03:47:57.979
And the alternative environmentally sensitive plan shall

03:47:57.979 --> 03:48:01.459
demonstrate that the developer's alternative proposal

03:48:01.459 --> 03:48:04.420
results in a high quality development, meeting with the

03:48:04.420 --> 03:48:06.440
intention of the development code.

03:48:06.440 --> 03:48:09.639
And I think that's the point here is we don't have to rush

03:48:09.639 --> 03:48:10.440
into this.

03:48:10.440 --> 03:48:15.459
We can wait, and we can plant instead of 196 caliper inches

03:48:15.459 --> 03:48:17.440
to replace 300.

03:48:17.440 --> 03:48:19.440
They're already planning on planting more trees.

03:48:19.440 --> 03:48:23.219
Just put them in the plan, you know, extend that blue area

03:48:23.219 --> 03:48:26.930
another few hundred feet with six more trees or eight more

03:48:26.930 --> 03:48:31.799
trees, and get the final location of the road and know the

03:48:31.799 --> 03:48:34.440
actual disturbance that's going to be going in.

03:48:34.440 --> 03:48:36.979
And that's the reason why I think we should postpone this

03:48:36.979 --> 03:48:39.690
until the final plot is submitted, because then at least we

03:48:39.690 --> 03:48:41.440
'll have a final plot to work with.

03:48:41.440 --> 03:48:42.440
Thank you.

03:48:42.440 --> 03:48:44.440
Commissioner Hedgbeth.

03:48:44.440 --> 03:48:53.840
Just renewing last week, we altered our plan based on a tim

03:48:53.840 --> 03:49:01.909
etable that the applicant set forth and did not require that

03:49:01.909 --> 03:49:05.440
entity to present its final plan.

03:49:05.440 --> 03:49:06.440
Same questions.

03:49:06.440 --> 03:49:09.719
Same questions as to location of building, location of

03:49:09.719 --> 03:49:10.440
parking.

03:49:10.440 --> 03:49:12.440
There's lots of uncertainty.

03:49:12.440 --> 03:49:13.440
There's even more.

03:49:13.440 --> 03:49:17.979
We don't even have a rendering, and this same body okayed

03:49:17.979 --> 03:49:19.440
that last week.

03:49:19.440 --> 03:49:25.299
And this week, a couple weeks later, we turn around and say

03:49:25.299 --> 03:49:31.389
we need everything certain, nailed down, when we don't have

03:49:31.389 --> 03:49:36.370
to have that area, if they change their plans, they don't

03:49:36.370 --> 03:49:38.440
have to come back.

03:49:38.440 --> 03:49:41.870
If they stay within that area that's approved tonight, they

03:49:41.870 --> 03:49:43.440
don't have to come back.

03:49:43.440 --> 03:49:48.639
And so I think it's just short-sighted on the business side

03:49:48.639 --> 03:49:53.540
of the business to treat one entity different than the

03:49:53.540 --> 03:49:54.440
other.

03:49:54.440 --> 03:49:57.649
I mean, that's just, to me, it is on point, and it is

03:49:57.649 --> 03:49:59.440
exactly the same thing.

03:49:59.440 --> 03:50:01.440
There are no plans for two weeks ago.

03:50:01.440 --> 03:50:06.459
There's not one drawing, not one rendering, and this same

03:50:06.459 --> 03:50:08.440
body approved that.

03:50:08.440 --> 03:50:13.790
And this, when asked to stay on task here, differing

03:50:13.790 --> 03:50:19.209
interpretations if we're on task, is now all of a sudden

03:50:19.209 --> 03:50:23.440
going to burden this applicant with final plans.

03:50:23.440 --> 03:50:28.120
And I just think that is, again, sets a dangerous precedent

03:50:28.120 --> 03:50:32.440
given the fact that it's in near proximity to another area

03:50:32.440 --> 03:50:38.989
where it's nothing but cement, and there's a green filter

03:50:38.989 --> 03:50:41.440
over the drain.

03:50:41.440 --> 03:50:43.440
Commissioner Taylor.

03:50:43.440 --> 03:50:44.440
Thank you, Chair.

03:50:44.440 --> 03:50:51.000
I believe Commissioner Hutspeth is referring to rezoning a

03:50:51.000 --> 03:50:53.440
piece of property. Is that the case you were referring to

03:50:53.440 --> 03:50:53.440
at our last meeting?

03:50:53.440 --> 03:50:56.479
No, sir. I'm referring to making a decision without a final

03:50:56.479 --> 03:50:57.440
plan in front of us.

03:50:57.440 --> 03:50:58.440
Simply that.

03:50:58.440 --> 03:51:01.540
Well, so we have different criteria for different cases

03:51:01.540 --> 03:51:02.440
that we hear.

03:51:02.440 --> 03:51:05.440
Zoning is the use of land.

03:51:05.440 --> 03:51:09.309
And in zoning, we don't want to consider what's proposed

03:51:09.309 --> 03:51:13.100
because zoning is permanent and stays with the land so we

03:51:13.100 --> 03:51:15.440
can get a nice pretty drawing.

03:51:15.440 --> 03:51:18.229
The minute they have it rezoned, they can do anything that

03:51:18.229 --> 03:51:19.440
's allowed by the use.

03:51:19.440 --> 03:51:23.569
And so I think that's why there's a difference in

03:51:23.569 --> 03:51:28.469
considering zoning versus considering an alternative

03:51:28.469 --> 03:51:30.440
development plan.

03:51:30.440 --> 03:51:31.440
Commissioner Dudowitz.

03:51:31.440 --> 03:51:35.799
Question for staff. When we see a final plan on this

03:51:35.799 --> 03:51:38.440
property, what will we see?

03:51:38.440 --> 03:51:41.440
What will we see on that plan?

03:51:41.440 --> 03:51:43.440
We see a layout, centered to what the concept is?

03:51:43.440 --> 03:51:46.569
You'll see similar to the preliminary plan, however, there

03:51:46.569 --> 03:51:49.290
'll be more detail as it relates to the easements or the

03:51:49.290 --> 03:51:50.440
infrastructure.

03:51:50.440 --> 03:51:51.440
And roads?

03:51:51.440 --> 03:51:52.440
Yes.

03:51:52.440 --> 03:51:53.440
All the road systems?

03:51:53.440 --> 03:51:54.440
All your common access easements.

03:51:54.440 --> 03:51:57.440
And the additional retaining pond will be on there?

03:51:57.440 --> 03:51:59.440
Your detention facilities will also be on there.

03:51:59.440 --> 03:52:02.440
The ditches and all the sewers and everything else.

03:52:02.440 --> 03:52:04.440
And landscape plan will come?

03:52:04.440 --> 03:52:05.440
Not with the final plan.

03:52:05.440 --> 03:52:06.440
Not with your landscape plan.

03:52:06.440 --> 03:52:08.440
But we will have the opportunity to see that later?

03:52:08.440 --> 03:52:09.440
No.

03:52:09.440 --> 03:52:10.440
No.

03:52:10.440 --> 03:52:11.440
Yes.

03:52:11.440 --> 03:52:13.440
Not the landscape plan.

03:52:13.440 --> 03:52:14.440
No.

03:52:14.440 --> 03:52:15.440
I'm sorry.

03:52:15.440 --> 03:52:16.440
I thought you asked about the final plan.

03:52:16.440 --> 03:52:17.440
You'll be able to see the final plan.

03:52:17.440 --> 03:52:18.440
You'll be able to see the final plan.

03:52:18.440 --> 03:52:19.440
In the final plan.

03:52:19.440 --> 03:52:20.440
Yes.

03:52:20.440 --> 03:52:21.440
Okay.

03:52:21.440 --> 03:52:23.440
So there's a series of documents that will come before us

03:52:23.440 --> 03:52:25.440
and we get to look at and get comments back from the--

03:52:25.440 --> 03:52:26.440
Correct.

03:52:26.440 --> 03:52:27.440
Thank you.

03:52:27.440 --> 03:52:30.440
Just the final plan.

03:52:30.440 --> 03:52:33.319
Seeing no other request to speak, I'm going to call for a

03:52:33.319 --> 03:52:34.440
vote on the board.

03:52:34.440 --> 03:52:38.100
And again, the motion that will be before us will be to

03:52:38.100 --> 03:52:43.440
continue this item indefinitely until final plan.

03:52:43.440 --> 03:52:45.440
Have I restated your motion correctly?

03:52:45.440 --> 03:52:46.440
Thank you.

03:52:46.440 --> 03:53:01.440
I guess I'll call for a vote on the board.

03:53:01.440 --> 03:53:04.440
The motion fails 4-3.

03:53:04.440 --> 03:53:08.819
Chair would open the floor for further discussion or

03:53:08.819 --> 03:53:10.440
another motion.

03:53:10.440 --> 03:53:14.440
The recognized Commissioner Hussbuth for a motion.

03:53:14.440 --> 03:53:15.440
I move we approve.

03:53:15.440 --> 03:53:20.469
But I would ask that we add the language that Commissioner

03:53:20.469 --> 03:53:25.559
Roselle mentioned, that the trees be in that--in the area,

03:53:25.559 --> 03:53:29.440
at least in that same area that they were removed from.

03:53:29.440 --> 03:53:31.440
Okay.

03:53:31.440 --> 03:53:35.100
Could I get a clarification on, I believe, the motion that

03:53:35.100 --> 03:53:38.829
will be or the recommendation from staff have some--I think

03:53:38.829 --> 03:53:40.440
there were five criteria.

03:53:40.440 --> 03:53:42.440
Would you like to restate that and include?

03:53:42.440 --> 03:53:43.440
Yes.

03:53:43.440 --> 03:53:47.389
I would move approval of staff's recommendation with the

03:53:47.389 --> 03:53:51.409
addition of the language specifying the trees to remain in

03:53:51.409 --> 03:53:52.440
that area.

03:53:52.440 --> 03:53:56.579
So the five already existing conditions from staff and add

03:53:56.579 --> 03:54:00.440
a sixth one with Commissioner Roselle's language.

03:54:00.440 --> 03:54:01.440
That is correct.

03:54:01.440 --> 03:54:04.459
I think there was also a suggestion of another condition

03:54:04.459 --> 03:54:07.440
regarding monthly reporting or annual reporting.

03:54:07.440 --> 03:54:10.440
I believe that was from Commissioner Bruegel.

03:54:10.440 --> 03:54:12.440
And potentially inspections.

03:54:12.440 --> 03:54:16.760
And just to clarify, also to include the schematic or the

03:54:16.760 --> 03:54:19.440
site plan associated with this.

03:54:19.440 --> 03:54:26.159
So as Chair, I'll ask Commissioner Hussbuth if you'd like

03:54:26.159 --> 03:54:31.440
to restate your motion and get all of that.

03:54:31.440 --> 03:54:33.440
Okay.

03:54:33.440 --> 03:54:34.440
I didn't write that down.

03:54:34.440 --> 03:54:35.440
I got it.

03:54:35.440 --> 03:54:36.440
No.

03:54:36.440 --> 03:54:41.030
I would move that we accept with staff's five

03:54:41.030 --> 03:54:46.090
recommendations adding to that language regarding the trees

03:54:46.090 --> 03:54:52.440
to be located in the same area where they are being removed

03:54:52.440 --> 03:54:52.440
.

03:54:52.440 --> 03:55:00.670
Adding language that the pumping system be monitored and

03:55:00.670 --> 03:55:04.440
maintained and reporting.

03:55:04.440 --> 03:55:11.440
And then there be a site plan associated with that.

03:55:11.440 --> 03:55:12.440
I'm sorry.

03:55:12.440 --> 03:55:16.440
Did you say annual report or monthly report?

03:55:16.440 --> 03:55:17.440
Annual.

03:55:17.440 --> 03:55:20.440
Is that the right answer?

03:55:20.440 --> 03:55:23.440
Monthly.

03:55:23.440 --> 03:55:27.139
And when you say trees in that same area, what area are you

03:55:27.139 --> 03:55:28.440
talking about?

03:55:28.440 --> 03:55:34.629
The area that they're removed from, from the -- I don't

03:55:34.629 --> 03:55:35.440
know what they termed it.

03:55:35.440 --> 03:55:40.250
But they were shifted in that area so they could reach full

03:55:40.250 --> 03:55:41.440
maturity.

03:55:41.440 --> 03:55:44.440
But they're not going to go in the identical location.

03:55:44.440 --> 03:55:48.440
But I don't know how staff termed that area.

03:55:48.440 --> 03:55:50.440
Maybe we can clarify that.

03:55:50.440 --> 03:55:51.440
Yes.

03:55:51.440 --> 03:55:52.440
Proposed preservation area.

03:55:52.440 --> 03:55:53.440
Okay.

03:55:53.440 --> 03:55:54.440
Thank you.

03:55:54.440 --> 03:55:55.440
Okay.

03:55:55.440 --> 03:55:58.440
So that would be your sixth condition.

03:55:58.440 --> 03:56:02.299
I believe the seventh condition, maybe Commissioner Bruegel

03:56:02.299 --> 03:56:05.920
, if that would be appropriate, could clarify the monitoring

03:56:05.920 --> 03:56:07.440
of the storm interceptors.

03:56:07.440 --> 03:56:09.440
He had six.

03:56:09.440 --> 03:56:10.440
Seven.

03:56:10.440 --> 03:56:11.440
Seven, I think there were eight.

03:56:11.440 --> 03:56:12.440
There were seven.

03:56:12.440 --> 03:56:13.440
She'll be eight.

03:56:13.440 --> 03:56:14.440
She's clarifying the seventh.

03:56:14.440 --> 03:56:16.440
Yes.

03:56:16.440 --> 03:56:18.920
So my concern was I just wanted to make sure that the storm

03:56:18.920 --> 03:56:21.770
scepters are being maintained, that they're being reported

03:56:21.770 --> 03:56:24.120
to the city, and that they're being inspected on a regular

03:56:24.120 --> 03:56:24.440
basis.

03:56:24.440 --> 03:56:25.440
Monthly.

03:56:25.440 --> 03:56:26.440
Fill in the blank.

03:56:26.440 --> 03:56:28.290
I think you said annually, and I was giving you the

03:56:28.290 --> 03:56:29.440
opportunity for monthly.

03:56:29.440 --> 03:56:30.440
Monthly?

03:56:30.440 --> 03:56:31.440
No.

03:56:31.440 --> 03:56:32.440
Or annually.

03:56:32.440 --> 03:56:33.440
Annually.

03:56:33.440 --> 03:56:34.440
Annually sounds great.

03:56:34.440 --> 03:56:35.440
Okay.

03:56:35.440 --> 03:56:37.090
I just want to make sure that they're being maintained,

03:56:37.090 --> 03:56:37.440
right?

03:56:37.440 --> 03:56:38.440
Okay.

03:56:38.440 --> 03:56:44.750
So that was our seventh and I believe the eighth item to be

03:56:44.750 --> 03:56:46.440
put on this.

03:56:46.440 --> 03:56:49.989
Just to make sure we're all on the same page, Deborah might

03:56:49.989 --> 03:56:53.350
have a point of clarification when we're talking about

03:56:53.350 --> 03:56:54.440
monitoring.

03:56:54.440 --> 03:56:55.440
[INAUDIBLE]

03:56:55.440 --> 03:56:59.440
Plan put together by the manufacturer.

03:56:59.440 --> 03:57:03.120
Why don't we go by what is recommended by the manufacturer

03:57:03.120 --> 03:57:06.590
about how often those inspections needs to be and how

03:57:06.590 --> 03:57:08.440
detailed they need to be.

03:57:08.440 --> 03:57:11.299
I think that that would be in line with what the

03:57:11.299 --> 03:57:13.440
manufacturer would require.

03:57:13.440 --> 03:57:17.170
And that's between the manufacturer and the owner, and I

03:57:17.170 --> 03:57:20.739
think we're asking about the city coming in and having a

03:57:20.739 --> 03:57:22.440
second look at that.

03:57:22.440 --> 03:57:23.440
Correct.

03:57:23.440 --> 03:57:25.440
If I understand that correctly.

03:57:25.440 --> 03:57:28.299
So the applicant's responsibility is to follow the

03:57:28.299 --> 03:57:31.879
manufacturer's recommendations, and then we're asking for

03:57:31.879 --> 03:57:34.510
the city to be an extra pair of eyes to come in on an

03:57:34.510 --> 03:57:40.440
annual basis and review that.

03:57:40.440 --> 03:57:43.440
Can I amend that really quick?

03:57:43.440 --> 03:57:46.440
I'm going to eventually be voting against this entire thing

03:57:46.440 --> 03:57:49.379
because I think Buc-E's can do better, but as long as we're

03:57:49.379 --> 03:57:50.440
making my point.

03:57:50.440 --> 03:57:53.409
I would like to maybe see it twice annually during the

03:57:53.409 --> 03:57:54.440
rainy season.

03:57:54.440 --> 03:57:55.440
Come on out.

03:57:55.440 --> 03:57:57.299
I don't want it just inspected once in August and

03:57:57.299 --> 03:57:58.440
everything looks fine.

03:57:58.440 --> 03:57:59.440
So.

03:57:59.440 --> 03:58:00.440
Twice a year?

03:58:00.440 --> 03:58:01.440
Yeah.

03:58:01.440 --> 03:58:02.440
Semi-annually.

03:58:02.440 --> 03:58:05.440
One more friendly amendment.

03:58:05.440 --> 03:58:08.940
Let me get the eighth one and then we'll work on the ninth

03:58:08.940 --> 03:58:09.440
one.

03:58:09.440 --> 03:58:12.670
We had the eighth one, if you would help me with the

03:58:12.670 --> 03:58:14.440
wording on the eighth.

03:58:14.440 --> 03:58:17.440
I believe you had a point that you would like to make.

03:58:17.440 --> 03:58:22.510
The eighth one was to ensure receipt of the annual

03:58:22.510 --> 03:58:25.440
inspection twice a year.

03:58:25.440 --> 03:58:28.440
So really I'm confusing the seventh and the eighth.

03:58:28.440 --> 03:58:32.500
We have seven right now, and we're going to have a friendly

03:58:32.500 --> 03:58:34.440
amendment for one more.

03:58:34.440 --> 03:58:40.270
Just to expressly state that the access from the north end

03:58:40.270 --> 03:58:45.200
will not, will be physically blocked to prevent access from

03:58:45.200 --> 03:58:46.440
the interstate.

03:58:46.440 --> 03:58:48.440
So if the ramp moves, it's solved.

03:58:48.440 --> 03:58:56.440
And if the ramp doesn't move, then a ride in, ride out.

03:58:56.440 --> 03:58:58.440
Can you restate that?

03:58:58.440 --> 03:58:59.440
I'm sorry.

03:58:59.440 --> 03:59:06.159
The north entrance, I would like to expressly state that

03:59:06.159 --> 03:59:12.170
the north entrance have some barrier to prevent access

03:59:12.170 --> 03:59:16.440
directly from the interstate off ramp.

03:59:16.440 --> 03:59:18.440
So if they move the off ramp, problem solved.

03:59:18.440 --> 03:59:21.659
If they don't move the off ramp, make it a ride in, ride

03:59:21.659 --> 03:59:22.440
out curb.

03:59:22.440 --> 03:59:23.440
That's text on it.

03:59:23.440 --> 03:59:28.440
That's kind of, that's part of it.

03:59:28.440 --> 03:59:34.909
We may be preempted from adding that condition because of

03:59:34.909 --> 03:59:36.440
state law.

03:59:36.440 --> 03:59:38.440
Commissioner Hesbuth has a motion.

03:59:38.440 --> 03:59:42.700
I believe we've clarified we have seven items that are

03:59:42.700 --> 03:59:45.440
attached to that for approval.

03:59:45.440 --> 03:59:49.440
And have I stated your motion correctly?

03:59:49.440 --> 03:59:50.440
Yes, sir.

03:59:50.440 --> 03:59:51.440
Thank you.

03:59:51.440 --> 03:59:54.709
Just as one point to, someone mentioned a site plan, I don

03:59:54.709 --> 03:59:58.049
't know what that's in reference to, but not that it matters

03:59:58.049 --> 03:59:58.440
.

03:59:58.440 --> 04:00:03.440
Everything else is, if that does not matter, we're good.

04:00:03.440 --> 04:00:04.440
Yes.

04:00:04.440 --> 04:00:06.719
I think we have your motion to approve with the seven

04:00:06.719 --> 04:00:08.989
conditions, and I think we've got the commission's work

04:00:08.989 --> 04:00:10.440
together to clarify the language.

04:00:10.440 --> 04:00:14.440
So thank you for giving us the opportunity to do that.

04:00:14.440 --> 04:00:18.440
And I'll recognize Commissioner Rosell as a seconder.

04:00:18.440 --> 04:00:20.440
I don't have to repeat the motion?

04:00:20.440 --> 04:00:25.440
No.

04:00:25.440 --> 04:00:27.440
I second the motion.

04:00:27.440 --> 04:00:30.750
We have a first and a second on the floor, and I'll call on

04:00:30.750 --> 04:00:33.440
Commissioner Detowitz for discussion.

04:00:33.440 --> 04:00:36.440
I'd like to have a clarification, please.

04:00:36.440 --> 04:00:40.219
With one of the adjustments, it was to leave the trees in

04:00:40.219 --> 04:00:41.440
the same area.

04:00:41.440 --> 04:00:43.440
I have a concern.

04:00:43.440 --> 04:00:47.110
I think that we had a presentation that our arborists and

04:00:47.110 --> 04:00:51.059
our landscape people suggested that we move them for the

04:00:51.059 --> 04:00:54.729
sake of the benefit of these new trees and of the current

04:00:54.729 --> 04:00:56.440
location, because it's so crowded there.

04:00:56.440 --> 04:00:59.149
That was one of the clarifications to move it to the

04:00:59.149 --> 04:01:00.440
proposed preserve.

04:01:00.440 --> 04:01:03.440
I must have missed it. It must have been .10, .12.

04:01:03.440 --> 04:01:06.440
It's not the same location. It is the identified area.

04:01:06.440 --> 04:01:08.440
It's in that same identified area?

04:01:08.440 --> 04:01:09.440
Yes.

04:01:09.440 --> 04:01:14.059
I want to make sure that we don't compromise any good

04:01:14.059 --> 04:01:16.440
suggestions for that.

04:01:16.440 --> 04:01:19.799
And that does not preclude them from planting other trees

04:01:19.799 --> 04:01:23.090
as a result from compliance with the Denton Development

04:01:23.090 --> 04:01:24.440
Code in other areas?

04:01:24.440 --> 04:01:25.440
Correct.

04:01:25.440 --> 04:01:26.440
Just so everyone's clear.

04:01:26.440 --> 04:01:28.440
Commissioner Tyler.

04:01:28.440 --> 04:01:31.440
Thank you, Chair.

04:01:31.440 --> 04:01:35.440
So I'm not opposed to the project necessarily.

04:01:35.440 --> 04:01:41.440
I am opposed to this mitigation as it's presented here.

04:01:41.440 --> 04:01:44.440
And it comes down to simple things.

04:01:44.440 --> 04:01:45.440
Caliper inches.

04:01:45.440 --> 04:01:48.870
I think the water quality is pretty well addressed with the

04:01:48.870 --> 04:01:52.469
storm drains and enough riparian buffer to have biological

04:01:52.469 --> 04:01:53.440
filtration.

04:01:53.440 --> 04:01:58.370
But whenever we're replacing 310 caliper inches of trees,

04:01:58.370 --> 04:02:03.760
which is 12 average diameter, or 24 average diameter of 13

04:02:03.760 --> 04:02:08.229
inches trees with 8 2 inch trees basically, I think you

04:02:08.229 --> 04:02:09.440
could do better.

04:02:09.440 --> 04:02:11.670
And I know that you're planning on planting more trees on

04:02:11.670 --> 04:02:12.440
the property.

04:02:12.440 --> 04:02:15.450
So just that's why I think it's a really simple fix to

04:02:15.450 --> 04:02:16.440
expand this.

04:02:16.440 --> 04:02:19.809
And I would not oppose this with some minor adjustments or

04:02:19.809 --> 04:02:23.190
decreasing the square footage of the disturbed area when

04:02:23.190 --> 04:02:26.579
you know what your actual construction plan would be so

04:02:26.579 --> 04:02:30.399
that you're only knocking out 12 trees and replacing them

04:02:30.399 --> 04:02:31.440
or whatever.

04:02:31.440 --> 04:02:33.409
There are a lot of ways that I think this could go forward

04:02:33.409 --> 04:02:34.440
and I would approve it.

04:02:34.440 --> 04:02:39.440
But as it stands now, I can't approve the details of this.

04:02:39.440 --> 04:02:40.440
Commissioner Brueben.

04:02:40.440 --> 04:02:42.440
Thank you, Chair.

04:02:42.440 --> 04:02:46.280
Thank you, Commissioner Hutzpeth for including my storm s

04:02:46.280 --> 04:02:47.440
cepter thing.

04:02:47.440 --> 04:02:49.440
Yeah, in your multiple amendments there.

04:02:49.440 --> 04:02:51.440
But I'm going to echo Commissioner Taylor.

04:02:51.440 --> 04:02:55.440
I think that this could be much better.

04:02:55.440 --> 04:02:57.440
And though I'm grateful that you've included some of our

04:02:57.440 --> 04:03:01.559
thoughts in your motion, I'm going to be voting against

04:03:01.559 --> 04:03:02.440
this.

04:03:02.440 --> 04:03:04.440
I'm going to make a comment as well.

04:03:04.440 --> 04:03:07.440
I recognize Mathel Commissioner's concerns.

04:03:07.440 --> 04:03:12.639
And again, my view on this is we have the ESA only before

04:03:12.639 --> 04:03:14.440
us to consider.

04:03:14.440 --> 04:03:17.579
And I, as you know, as we move forward with this with the

04:03:17.579 --> 04:03:20.700
final plan, that there will be many more trees that are

04:03:20.700 --> 04:03:21.440
proposed.

04:03:21.440 --> 04:03:24.809
And so this site will only continue to get better than what

04:03:24.809 --> 04:03:27.440
it's being proposed for before us today.

04:03:27.440 --> 04:03:31.479
And so I'm comfortable with supporting it and moving it

04:03:31.479 --> 04:03:32.440
forward.

04:03:32.440 --> 04:03:35.610
It will go before City Council, so there will be another

04:03:35.610 --> 04:03:38.879
opportunity for anybody that has a concern to bring those

04:03:38.879 --> 04:03:40.440
again to City Council.

04:03:40.440 --> 04:03:43.600
And again, this will then come back to us again for final

04:03:43.600 --> 04:03:46.440
plan and then the City Council for final plan.

04:03:46.440 --> 04:03:50.489
So there are multiple more opportunities for any of you all

04:03:50.489 --> 04:03:54.030
to express your concerns, your questions, some of these

04:03:54.030 --> 04:03:56.440
items that you would like to have added to the proposal.

04:03:56.440 --> 04:04:00.180
Many more opportunities for you all to have those addressed

04:04:00.180 --> 04:04:03.030
, but also in regards to Buckees, I know they have a

04:04:03.030 --> 04:04:03.440
timeframe.

04:04:03.440 --> 04:04:06.180
And I think it's important for us to nail down the area

04:04:06.180 --> 04:04:09.100
they have to work for, work within and let them move

04:04:09.100 --> 04:04:12.440
forward with their project and continue to develop it and

04:04:12.440 --> 04:04:14.440
bring those things back to us for further consideration.

04:04:14.440 --> 04:04:18.440
So with that, we have no further discussion.

04:04:18.440 --> 04:04:29.799
I will call for a vote on the board for approval with the

04:04:29.799 --> 04:04:34.440
seven conditions.

04:04:34.440 --> 04:04:37.440
Motion carries four to three.

04:04:37.440 --> 04:04:40.750
I'd like to thank everybody for coming out this evening and

04:04:40.750 --> 04:04:42.440
giving us your feedback.

04:04:42.440 --> 04:04:45.709
And again, we encourage you to continue on to City Council

04:04:45.709 --> 04:04:48.889
and then back when this is before us for final plan before

04:04:48.889 --> 04:04:49.440
PNC.

04:04:49.440 --> 04:04:52.440
Thank you for your participation.

04:04:52.440 --> 04:05:01.209
We'll give the room a few minutes to clear before I call

04:05:01.209 --> 04:05:03.440
our next item.

04:05:03.440 --> 04:05:08.440
I've had a request that we take a short break.

04:05:08.440 --> 04:05:19.440
So at 854, we will take a short recess.

04:05:19.440 --> 04:05:21.440
Good evening and welcome back.

04:05:21.440 --> 04:05:25.780
It is 907 and I'm going to call us back into session and

04:05:25.780 --> 04:05:29.790
ask to make sure everybody after taking a recess that we

04:05:29.790 --> 04:05:31.440
have our mics back on.

04:05:31.440 --> 04:05:37.879
And I will open our next public hearing item, which is

04:05:37.879 --> 04:05:42.440
going to be DCA 16-0001.

04:05:42.440 --> 04:05:51.440
And I will call on Shandrian to make that presentation.

04:05:51.440 --> 04:05:53.440
Having a hard time hearing you.

04:05:53.440 --> 04:05:59.809
Okay. This next item is proposed amendments to the subch

04:05:59.809 --> 04:06:02.440
apter 35 13 7.

04:06:02.440 --> 04:06:05.440
Can you hear me?

04:06:05.440 --> 04:06:06.440
Get back there.

04:06:06.440 --> 04:06:07.440
Okay. Good.

04:06:07.440 --> 04:06:11.229
That deal with the city's tree preservation and landscape

04:06:11.229 --> 04:06:12.440
requirements.

04:06:12.440 --> 04:06:15.870
The request is to hold a public hearing and consider making

04:06:15.870 --> 04:06:19.420
a recommendation to City Council regarding the adoption of

04:06:19.420 --> 04:06:22.920
an ordinance of the city of Denton, Texas, amending subch

04:06:22.920 --> 04:06:28.440
apter 35 3 procedures, subchapter 35 13 site design

04:06:28.440 --> 04:06:33.889
standards and subchapter 35 23 definitions and terms of the

04:06:33.889 --> 04:06:37.280
Denton development code as it relates to tree preservation

04:06:37.280 --> 04:06:40.440
and landscape requirements.

04:06:40.440 --> 04:06:44.930
To begin, the existing ordinance was adopted in 2004 to

04:06:44.930 --> 04:06:48.940
promote tree preservation and to facilitate the long term

04:06:48.940 --> 04:06:52.440
viability of trees during site construction.

04:06:52.440 --> 04:06:57.030
How this has been somewhat effective, but we recognize that

04:06:57.030 --> 04:07:01.260
more is needed to further protect and expand tree canopy

04:07:01.260 --> 04:07:05.489
and to provide clear guidance for tree preservation and

04:07:05.489 --> 04:07:08.440
mitigation during site development.

04:07:08.440 --> 04:07:15.360
Between 2007 and 2013, there were multiple attempts to

04:07:15.360 --> 04:07:18.440
update this section of the DDC.

04:07:18.440 --> 04:07:22.520
However, none were successful due to the lack of consensus

04:07:22.520 --> 04:07:26.520
on the proposed amendments and therefore the tree code has

04:07:26.520 --> 04:07:29.440
not been revised since it was adopted.

04:07:29.440 --> 04:07:37.270
And this is part of the reason why in the fall of 2014,

04:07:37.270 --> 04:07:44.809
City Council directed staff to proceed with this latest

04:07:44.809 --> 04:07:45.440
update.

04:07:45.440 --> 04:07:48.670
The proposed revisions to the tree code would accomplish

04:07:48.670 --> 04:07:50.440
the following objectives.

04:07:50.440 --> 04:07:54.450
It would streamline the code to make it more user friendly,

04:07:54.450 --> 04:07:58.440
align city standards with the best management practices of

04:07:58.440 --> 04:08:01.889
the American National Standards Institute and the

04:08:01.889 --> 04:08:04.440
International Society of Aboriculture.

04:08:04.440 --> 04:08:10.420
It would also provide a more robust code that would expand

04:08:10.420 --> 04:08:16.409
and protect tree canopy and help to build the city's green

04:08:16.409 --> 04:08:22.790
infrastructure network as identified in the comprehensive

04:08:22.790 --> 04:08:23.440
plan.

04:08:23.440 --> 04:08:28.549
As part of this effort, staff identified the following key

04:08:28.549 --> 04:08:30.440
tasks and milestones.

04:08:30.440 --> 04:08:33.750
You see on the slide that the City Council gave us the

04:08:33.750 --> 04:08:37.440
green light to proceed in the fall of 2014.

04:08:37.440 --> 04:08:40.909
We've conducted our research and benchmark analysis, which

04:08:40.909 --> 04:08:43.440
we completed in the fall of 2015.

04:08:43.440 --> 04:08:48.110
We also wrapped up city staff work sessions with the other

04:08:48.110 --> 04:08:53.139
departments, although that coordination does remain ongoing

04:08:53.139 --> 04:08:53.440
.

04:08:53.440 --> 04:08:58.559
We held several external stakeholder meetings that included

04:08:58.559 --> 04:09:03.260
talks with the DEN Community Developers Alliance and the

04:09:03.260 --> 04:09:06.440
Keep DEN Beautiful organization.

04:09:06.440 --> 04:09:11.540
And if you remember, in December of last year, we provided

04:09:11.540 --> 04:09:16.530
a briefing to the PNZ that gave you an overview of the core

04:09:16.530 --> 04:09:21.049
components of what we were proposing to change in the

04:09:21.049 --> 04:09:22.440
ordinance.

04:09:22.440 --> 04:09:27.770
And finally, at the beginning of this year, we conducted a

04:09:27.770 --> 04:09:32.889
visual preference survey of the community to gauge the

04:09:32.889 --> 04:09:37.440
public interest in trees in the public realm.

04:09:37.440 --> 04:09:43.500
We received about 1,200 responses to that survey, and most

04:09:43.500 --> 04:09:45.440
of it was positive.

04:09:45.440 --> 04:09:50.770
There was a huge interest in, if I can summarize, in seeing

04:09:50.770 --> 04:09:58.770
trees in the public spaces, but having them organized and

04:09:58.770 --> 04:10:02.440
well maintained.

04:10:02.440 --> 04:10:06.450
So I'll get into the proposed recommendations in a second,

04:10:06.450 --> 04:10:11.440
but I wanted to review our benchmark city analysis

04:10:11.440 --> 04:10:14.860
because it served as a basis for the recommendations that

04:10:14.860 --> 04:10:17.440
we're bringing forward to you tonight.

04:10:17.440 --> 04:10:20.440
We looked at 10 cities around the state.

04:10:20.440 --> 04:10:24.100
Most of them have similar population sizes and projected

04:10:24.100 --> 04:10:26.440
growth rates to the city of Denton.

04:10:26.440 --> 04:10:31.209
We chose these cities because they have well constructed

04:10:31.209 --> 04:10:36.170
and effective tree preservation ordinances and practices

04:10:36.170 --> 04:10:40.659
that we could benefit from as we update the city's tree

04:10:40.659 --> 04:10:41.440
code.

04:10:41.440 --> 04:10:46.059
So we focused our research on five areas, established tree

04:10:46.059 --> 04:10:50.409
designations, which are the tree species that will be

04:10:50.409 --> 04:10:52.440
subject to the ordinance,

04:10:52.440 --> 04:10:56.370
minimum preservation percentages, which is the percentage

04:10:56.370 --> 04:10:59.899
of existing trees on a site that would need to be retained

04:10:59.899 --> 04:11:01.440
during development,

04:11:01.440 --> 04:11:06.299
tree mitigation ratios, which get applied when the minimum

04:11:06.299 --> 04:11:09.440
preservation percentages are not met,

04:11:09.440 --> 04:11:14.010
and then tree fund payments that are collected when it's

04:11:14.010 --> 04:11:18.760
determined that mitigation by planting of trees on a site

04:11:18.760 --> 04:11:21.440
is not feasible or desirable.

04:11:21.440 --> 04:11:26.459
And then finally, we looked at preservation incentives,

04:11:26.459 --> 04:11:33.090
which are intended to encourage the developers to go above

04:11:33.090 --> 04:11:38.440
the minimum requirements.

04:11:38.440 --> 04:11:42.260
So what we found in our analysis is that Denton's tree and

04:11:42.260 --> 04:11:45.920
landscape code is one of the most complex of the cities

04:11:45.920 --> 04:11:47.440
that we looked at.

04:11:47.440 --> 04:11:51.549
We identified seven tree designations compared to an

04:11:51.549 --> 04:11:54.440
average of three for the other cities.

04:11:54.440 --> 04:11:58.680
And our 39 options for preservation is significantly more

04:11:58.680 --> 04:12:01.440
than what we've seen around the state.

04:12:01.440 --> 04:12:04.819
And we also noticed that we're trailing in preservation and

04:12:04.819 --> 04:12:06.440
mitigation standards.

04:12:06.440 --> 04:12:10.450
We have the lowest minimum tree preservation requirements,

04:12:10.450 --> 04:12:14.739
no requirement or incentive to save large trees or anything

04:12:14.739 --> 04:12:16.440
over 18 inches.

04:12:16.440 --> 04:12:22.909
And then we have the lowest mitigation rates for tree

04:12:22.909 --> 04:12:24.440
removal.

04:12:24.440 --> 04:12:28.790
In your backup, I provided a table that summarizes our

04:12:28.790 --> 04:12:33.440
proposed revisions and is organized into proposed changes

04:12:33.440 --> 04:12:39.440
to the procedures, the standards, and the requirements.

04:12:39.440 --> 04:12:43.239
Under the procedures and standards section, you'll find

04:12:43.239 --> 04:12:47.440
that we're proposing to align city definitions and terms

04:12:47.440 --> 04:12:51.180
with those of the industry, as we noted earlier, the ANSI

04:12:51.180 --> 04:12:54.440
standards and the ISA standards.

04:12:54.440 --> 04:12:58.280
We're also proposing to reduce the number of tree design

04:12:58.280 --> 04:13:00.440
ations from seven to three.

04:13:00.440 --> 04:13:05.059
So now you'll have heritage trees, protected trees, and

04:13:05.059 --> 04:13:06.440
canopy trees.

04:13:06.440 --> 04:13:10.790
The heritage trees are any healthy tree that's over 18

04:13:10.790 --> 04:13:14.440
inches and designated by the urban forester.

04:13:14.440 --> 04:13:18.489
The protected trees are any healthy trees that are under

04:13:18.489 --> 04:13:22.440
over 18 inches and not designated as heritage.

04:13:22.440 --> 04:13:26.659
And the canopy would capture everything unhealthy that's

04:13:26.659 --> 04:13:28.440
under 18 inches.

04:13:28.440 --> 04:13:33.579
And we're also proposing to establish an exempt trees list,

04:13:33.579 --> 04:13:37.440
and these can be removed without penalty.

04:13:37.440 --> 04:13:42.100
And these trees are the ones that in the current code you

04:13:42.100 --> 04:13:45.440
find under the secondary tree list.

04:13:45.440 --> 04:13:49.920
So we would incorporate those as well as some additions

04:13:49.920 --> 04:13:54.440
that our forest or urban forester is recommending.

04:13:54.440 --> 04:13:58.209
We also are proposing to reduce the number of exempt

04:13:58.209 --> 04:14:00.440
properties and projects.

04:14:00.440 --> 04:14:04.649
If you look at the summary table that's included in your

04:14:04.649 --> 04:14:09.440
backup, you'll notice that we go from about 15 exemptions.

04:14:09.440 --> 04:14:11.440
We basically cut that number in half.

04:14:11.440 --> 04:14:16.440
And a lot of those have to deal with the city.

04:14:16.440 --> 04:14:20.440
You'll notice that there are city projects.

04:14:20.440 --> 04:14:25.270
And the thought behind that was that as a city we want to

04:14:25.270 --> 04:14:28.440
be an example for development.

04:14:28.440 --> 04:14:31.670
We want to be able to have those opportunities with our

04:14:31.670 --> 04:14:36.059
facilities to create a sense of place and to frame our

04:14:36.059 --> 04:14:36.440
streets.

04:14:36.440 --> 04:14:41.540
And so those street reconstruction projects, the subst

04:14:41.540 --> 04:14:47.440
ations, those are opportunities for us to sort of make,

04:14:47.440 --> 04:14:51.440
to create a presence with trees and landscaping.

04:14:51.440 --> 04:15:01.690
Under the requirements section, we're also proposing to

04:15:01.690 --> 04:15:04.440
remove tree removal permits.

04:15:04.440 --> 04:15:08.750
We're proposing to require tree removal permits for all

04:15:08.750 --> 04:15:12.440
sites, including residential.

04:15:12.440 --> 04:15:17.459
However, the residential sites would only need to come in,

04:15:17.459 --> 04:15:18.440
the residential owners, I should say,

04:15:18.440 --> 04:15:22.530
would only need to come in to request a tree removal permit

04:15:22.530 --> 04:15:25.440
for any tree that's over five inches.

04:15:25.440 --> 04:15:29.409
And that would be a complementary permit that would give us

04:15:29.409 --> 04:15:31.440
a chance to consult with them

04:15:31.440 --> 04:15:35.389
and maybe give them a little bit of advice of how to

04:15:35.389 --> 04:15:39.440
accomplish what they want to do in a different way.

04:15:39.440 --> 04:15:42.440
Or more effectively.

04:15:42.440 --> 04:15:46.569
We're also proposing to base the minimum preservation on

04:15:46.569 --> 04:15:52.440
the existing tree canopy instead of DBH inches.

04:15:52.440 --> 04:15:56.280
And to establish a flat mitigation ratio for tree removal

04:15:56.280 --> 04:15:57.440
of one to four.

04:15:57.440 --> 04:16:03.479
Currently our code, the range is from zero percent to one

04:16:03.479 --> 04:16:08.440
point, I think, 1.25.

04:16:08.440 --> 04:16:11.829
And then finally under the requirements, we are proposing

04:16:11.829 --> 04:16:14.440
to base the tree fund payments

04:16:14.440 --> 04:16:19.239
on fair market value of materials and labor at the time of

04:16:19.239 --> 04:16:20.440
planting.

04:16:20.440 --> 04:16:22.440
And we ran the numbers on that.

04:16:22.440 --> 04:16:26.450
And currently, if we were to make a recommendation today,

04:16:26.450 --> 04:16:36.440
that number would be about $175 per inch.

04:16:36.440 --> 04:16:40.760
Under preservation incentives, we are proposing to allow

04:16:40.760 --> 04:16:45.440
tree canopy to count towards landscape canopy requirements.

04:16:45.440 --> 04:16:49.180
We want to offer a one to two credit for preserving

04:16:49.180 --> 04:16:53.360
heritage trees that would also count toward the landscape

04:16:53.360 --> 04:16:54.440
requirement.

04:16:54.440 --> 04:16:58.639
And then we want to keep the existing allowance for

04:16:58.639 --> 04:17:01.440
modification of parking lot design

04:17:01.440 --> 04:17:08.690
and subdivision design when trees are preserved above the

04:17:08.690 --> 04:17:11.440
minimum required.

04:17:11.440 --> 04:17:14.950
And again, staff compared this proposal with our city's

04:17:14.950 --> 04:17:19.930
guidance documents, the comprehensive plan, the strategic

04:17:19.930 --> 04:17:20.440
plan.

04:17:20.440 --> 04:17:26.059
And we found as far as the comprehensive plan is concerned,

04:17:26.059 --> 04:17:31.750
the proposed revision will support these goals that you see

04:17:31.750 --> 04:17:33.440
on the screen.

04:17:33.440 --> 04:17:37.200
And then for the strategic plan, we see that it supports

04:17:37.200 --> 04:17:40.620
the key focus area of sustainable and environmental

04:17:40.620 --> 04:17:41.440
stewardship.

04:17:41.440 --> 04:17:45.600
And then the goal to manage land use and to preserve open

04:17:45.600 --> 04:17:47.440
and natural spaces.

04:17:47.440 --> 04:17:50.799
And with that, I'm going to conclude my presentation and

04:17:50.799 --> 04:17:52.440
open it up for questions.

04:17:52.440 --> 04:17:54.440
>> Commissioner Rossell.

04:17:54.440 --> 04:17:55.440
>> Thank you, Chair.

04:17:55.440 --> 04:17:58.350
I was reading through the draft language and I had a couple

04:17:58.350 --> 04:18:01.329
questions that maybe you can help clarify or maybe provide

04:18:01.329 --> 04:18:02.440
some insight to.

04:18:02.440 --> 04:18:03.440
>> Okay.

04:18:03.440 --> 04:18:06.600
>> Under exemptions, it says any development or capital

04:18:06.600 --> 04:18:10.440
improvement project awarded prior to November of 2004.

04:18:10.440 --> 04:18:12.920
Just for my edification, do we have a lot of outstanding

04:18:12.920 --> 04:18:15.459
projects that are sitting on like a bunch of treed lands

04:18:15.459 --> 04:18:16.440
that won't be subject to this?

04:18:16.440 --> 04:18:21.700
Do we know how many 12-year-old projects are just

04:18:21.700 --> 04:18:23.440
outstanding?

04:18:23.440 --> 04:18:26.440
>> I don't have a specific list, but there are a few.

04:18:26.440 --> 04:18:29.670
And so this was a provision in the existing code, and we

04:18:29.670 --> 04:18:32.979
didn't want to take that away because we didn't know what

04:18:32.979 --> 04:18:35.440
the status of those projects are to date.

04:18:35.440 --> 04:18:36.440
>> Sure.

04:18:36.440 --> 04:18:40.440
So the next question, I have two more.

04:18:40.440 --> 04:18:43.200
It says the removal of heritage trees, protected trees, or

04:18:43.200 --> 04:18:45.940
canopies, no person directly or indirectly should cut that

04:18:45.940 --> 04:18:46.440
down.

04:18:46.440 --> 04:18:49.799
And then later on for enforcement, it says a person shall

04:18:49.799 --> 04:18:52.440
be guilty of a misdemeanor for violation.

04:18:52.440 --> 04:18:55.360
Is the consequence the same for a canopy tree as it is a

04:18:55.360 --> 04:18:56.440
heritage tree?

04:18:56.440 --> 04:19:00.440
The punishment from the city, they see those equal?

04:19:00.440 --> 04:19:02.440
>> Yes, under the enforcement.

04:19:02.440 --> 04:19:04.440
In terms of violation, yes.

04:19:04.440 --> 04:19:05.440
>> Okay.

04:19:05.440 --> 04:19:06.440
Thank you.

04:19:06.440 --> 04:19:09.719
And then the last question that I might need a little help

04:19:09.719 --> 04:19:14.440
with here, and the mitigation says up to 50% of heritage

04:19:14.440 --> 04:19:17.069
trees, protected trees, and canopy trees required to be

04:19:17.069 --> 04:19:22.440
preserved may be removed and mitigated at 1 to 4 ratio.

04:19:22.440 --> 04:19:26.440
What happens if they go over 50%?

04:19:26.440 --> 04:19:27.440
I'm not sure.

04:19:27.440 --> 04:19:29.440
Can you help me understand that language?

04:19:29.440 --> 04:19:30.440
>> Yes.

04:19:30.440 --> 04:19:33.569
And actually, I'm going to ask Haywood Morgan, our forester

04:19:33.569 --> 04:19:34.440
, to come up.

04:19:34.440 --> 04:19:36.440
>> Okay.

04:19:36.440 --> 04:19:46.440
Thanks.

04:19:46.440 --> 04:19:50.229
>> So when you're looking at mitigation, the current code

04:19:50.229 --> 04:19:53.940
and the proposed code sets a threshold for what you have to

04:19:53.940 --> 04:19:55.440
preserve on site.

04:19:55.440 --> 04:19:56.440
>> Right.

04:19:56.440 --> 04:20:00.100
With the current code as what we're proposing with the

04:20:00.100 --> 04:20:04.030
existing code, you're allowed to remove up to half of what

04:20:04.030 --> 04:20:07.440
the preservation amount is and mitigate for it.

04:20:07.440 --> 04:20:11.590
You're not allowed to dip below that threshold of 50% of

04:20:11.590 --> 04:20:13.440
what you're required.

04:20:13.440 --> 04:20:18.239
So just using the plain example current code, if you're

04:20:18.239 --> 04:20:23.549
required to preserve 100 inches of trees, you would be

04:20:23.549 --> 04:20:28.639
allowed under the code to remove 50 of those inches and

04:20:28.639 --> 04:20:31.440
mitigate through either replanting on the site or payment

04:20:31.440 --> 04:20:33.440
into the city's tree fund.

04:20:33.440 --> 04:20:36.129
>> And if I was trying to remove 60 trees in that example,

04:20:36.129 --> 04:20:37.440
I would just get denied?

04:20:37.440 --> 04:20:38.440
>> Correct.

04:20:38.440 --> 04:20:39.440
>> Okay.

04:20:39.440 --> 04:20:45.440
>> I have just a single question.

04:20:45.440 --> 04:20:49.299
I guess one thing, just for my clarification, that we're

04:20:49.299 --> 04:20:52.809
moving away from the old tree code to the new is we did a

04:20:52.809 --> 04:20:56.549
lot of conversation was about caliper inches in the old

04:20:56.549 --> 04:20:57.440
tree code.

04:20:57.440 --> 04:21:00.440
And it seems to be now we're talking about canopy.

04:21:00.440 --> 04:21:04.149
Is that a major shift that we're doing as a city to move

04:21:04.149 --> 04:21:06.440
away from caliper to canopy?

04:21:06.440 --> 04:21:09.440
>> Yes.

04:21:09.440 --> 04:21:10.440
>> Address that.

04:21:10.440 --> 04:21:12.440
>> That provides more flexibility.

04:21:12.440 --> 04:21:13.440
It gives you better opportunity.

04:21:13.440 --> 04:21:16.059
We're also not, you know, we're using canopy cover,

04:21:16.059 --> 04:21:18.670
existing canopy cover to go towards your landscaping

04:21:18.670 --> 04:21:21.440
requirements as it relates to your canopy cover.

04:21:21.440 --> 04:21:24.559
So in our opinion, it's a more sensible way of addressing

04:21:24.559 --> 04:21:27.610
what the ultimate goal was anyway that was referenced in

04:21:27.610 --> 04:21:30.659
the original tree code and what we're proposing today is

04:21:30.659 --> 04:21:32.440
enhance our canopy cover.

04:21:32.440 --> 04:21:35.780
>> Yeah, in addition, when you look at the benefits that we

04:21:35.780 --> 04:21:39.440
derive from trees, everything relates back to the canopy.

04:21:39.440 --> 04:21:40.440
>> Correct.

04:21:40.440 --> 04:21:43.440
>> Diameter inches can be very misleading.

04:21:43.440 --> 04:21:47.969
You can have a tree that has a larger DBH or diameter, but

04:21:47.969 --> 04:21:52.440
actually have a smaller canopy than a smaller tree.

04:21:52.440 --> 04:21:55.840
So, you know, while we're putting that premium on the size,

04:21:55.840 --> 04:21:59.229
well, in actuality that tree, because the canopy is smaller

04:21:59.229 --> 04:22:02.239
, is not really providing the same benefit as a smaller

04:22:02.239 --> 04:22:03.440
diameter tree.

04:22:03.440 --> 04:22:10.100
So industry wide, whenever benefits are quantified, it's

04:22:10.100 --> 04:22:13.440
always based on the canopy.

04:22:13.440 --> 04:22:17.370
>> So for us as a commission going forward, assuming as we

04:22:17.370 --> 04:22:21.479
work through this update on the tree code, when things come

04:22:21.479 --> 04:22:23.440
before us, like for example, the item just before us with

04:22:23.440 --> 04:22:23.440
the ESA,

04:22:23.440 --> 04:22:26.649
and we had a lot of discussion between ourselves about

04:22:26.649 --> 04:22:31.030
caliber inches and canopy, we should be starting to look at

04:22:31.030 --> 04:22:34.219
what the canopy ultimately is going to be as these projects

04:22:34.219 --> 04:22:35.440
come forward.

04:22:35.440 --> 04:22:38.469
So that's how we're going to be, or from the city's point

04:22:38.469 --> 04:22:41.709
of view, which we represent, to look at canopy rather than

04:22:41.709 --> 04:22:45.440
caliber inches as all of these projects come before us,

04:22:45.440 --> 04:22:47.950
is to look at that particular criteria now as the more

04:22:47.950 --> 04:22:50.809
important factor for us ultimately rather than the caliber

04:22:50.809 --> 04:22:51.440
inches.

04:22:51.440 --> 04:22:52.440
>> Correct.

04:22:52.440 --> 04:22:53.440
>> Okay.

04:22:53.440 --> 04:22:57.520
Thank you for the clarification on the shift that we're now

04:22:57.520 --> 04:22:59.440
making in our tree code.

04:22:59.440 --> 04:23:00.440
Commissioner Rozelle.

04:23:00.440 --> 04:23:04.370
>> I have one more, Heywood, if I could, kind of piggyback

04:23:04.370 --> 04:23:08.440
ing off the idea of moving from caliber inches to canopy,

04:23:08.440 --> 04:23:11.069
can you walk me through the rationale that the heritage

04:23:11.069 --> 04:23:12.979
tree, the protected tree, are still defined by caliber

04:23:12.979 --> 04:23:13.440
inches?

04:23:13.440 --> 04:23:17.840
Why are we not defining a heritage tree by its canopy size,

04:23:17.840 --> 04:23:21.440
but remaining that one to be caliber inches?

04:23:21.440 --> 04:23:27.430
>> Well, the designation of heritage and protected being 18

04:23:27.430 --> 04:23:32.440
inches and large was to give us an easier way to go out and

04:23:32.440 --> 04:23:35.440
actually identify those trees.

04:23:35.440 --> 04:23:39.780
In many instances, if you go on a site that's a fully tree

04:23:39.780 --> 04:23:43.530
site, it's kind of hard to distinguish the extent of the

04:23:43.530 --> 04:23:48.440
canopy without spending an extra amount of time.

04:23:48.440 --> 04:23:52.659
So by just doing the 18 inches and larger, it'll allow a

04:23:52.659 --> 04:23:56.469
professional to go out on site and pretty much eyeball

04:23:56.469 --> 04:24:00.440
which trees are going to fall within that category.

04:24:00.440 --> 04:24:01.440
>> Okay.

04:24:01.440 --> 04:24:03.440
Thank you.

04:24:03.440 --> 04:24:09.440
>> At this time, I see no other questions for staff.

04:24:09.440 --> 04:24:10.440
Okay.

04:24:10.440 --> 04:24:15.809
This is a public hearing, and I have at this time I have

04:24:15.809 --> 04:24:19.440
three cards requesting to speak.

04:24:19.440 --> 04:24:23.809
So as I will call our first speaker will be Lee Allison

04:24:23.809 --> 04:24:26.440
followed by Larry Reichart.

04:24:26.440 --> 04:24:30.209
Each of you will have four minutes to speak and if you will

04:24:30.209 --> 04:24:34.440
give your name and address when you come to the microphone.

04:24:34.440 --> 04:24:35.440
>> Good evening.

04:24:35.440 --> 04:24:38.930
I'm Larry Reichart from Allison with Allison engineering

04:24:38.930 --> 04:24:42.440
group, 4401 north 35, Denton, Texas.

04:24:42.440 --> 04:24:46.229
I'm actually here tonight representing the Denton Community

04:24:46.229 --> 04:24:50.059
Development Alliance, better known as often known as the DC

04:24:50.059 --> 04:24:50.440
DA.

04:24:50.440 --> 04:24:54.110
I'm not an indicated opposition, but I'd like to say that

04:24:54.110 --> 04:24:57.319
we have been the last few years trying to develop and I

04:24:57.319 --> 04:25:00.639
believe successfully developing a good working and

04:25:00.639 --> 04:25:04.479
improving and growing working relationship with the city of

04:25:04.479 --> 04:25:05.440
Denton.

04:25:05.440 --> 04:25:06.440
A number of meetings.

04:25:06.440 --> 04:25:10.290
Shondrian actually called and asked if they could have a

04:25:10.290 --> 04:25:14.079
meeting with the DCDA regarding this and came and gave a

04:25:14.079 --> 04:25:15.440
presentation.

04:25:15.440 --> 04:25:18.530
At that time, we felt like the staff was headed in right

04:25:18.530 --> 04:25:19.440
direction.

04:25:19.440 --> 04:25:23.440
We agreed generally with the way they were pursuing.

04:25:23.440 --> 04:25:25.750
I guess we didn't communicate well, but we had hoped after

04:25:25.750 --> 04:25:28.200
they got feedback from us as they developed recommendations

04:25:28.200 --> 04:25:32.420
, they would come back to us in a workshop so we could have

04:25:32.420 --> 04:25:36.479
an opportunity as our particular group that is involved

04:25:36.479 --> 04:25:40.440
with implementing these codes.

04:25:40.440 --> 04:25:43.590
You know, adhering to them, abiding by them, even living

04:25:43.590 --> 04:25:46.639
with them as consultants, as developers, as property

04:25:46.639 --> 04:25:47.440
managers.

04:25:47.440 --> 04:25:50.909
And unfortunately, we haven't had that opportunity, I think

04:25:50.909 --> 04:25:54.440
due to maybe some misunderstandings or miscommunications.

04:25:54.440 --> 04:25:57.809
And we're asking tonight that the commission postpone

04:25:57.809 --> 04:26:01.239
taking any action until we've had an opportunity to have

04:26:01.239 --> 04:26:04.670
such a workshop and we can present a responsible opinion

04:26:04.670 --> 04:26:05.440
paper.

04:26:05.440 --> 04:26:08.520
I'd be a liar if I said that we didn't want to dictate to

04:26:08.520 --> 04:26:11.340
the city how to write the code, but we know that's not

04:26:11.340 --> 04:26:13.809
practical and there's other interest groups with genuine

04:26:13.809 --> 04:26:14.440
interest.

04:26:14.440 --> 04:26:17.520
But we would like an opportunity to understand it, ask the

04:26:17.520 --> 04:26:20.739
kind of questions you've been asking this evening, and then

04:26:20.739 --> 04:26:22.440
to write a position paper.

04:26:22.440 --> 04:26:25.530
Maybe in doing so, we might help enlighten the staff on

04:26:25.530 --> 04:26:28.770
some other issues that they might want to bring back to you

04:26:28.770 --> 04:26:31.440
with a different perspective or light.

04:26:31.440 --> 04:26:35.629
And then maybe we may not change anything, but if anything,

04:26:35.629 --> 04:26:37.440
we could -- pardon me.

04:26:37.440 --> 04:26:39.440
I appreciate you indulging this nagging cough.

04:26:39.440 --> 04:26:42.500
It's been annoying to me and I'm sure it is to everyone

04:26:42.500 --> 04:26:43.440
else as well.

04:26:43.440 --> 04:26:45.440
But we'd like the opportunity to do that.

04:26:45.440 --> 04:26:49.440
Shondrin did rescind us the staff report last week.

04:26:49.440 --> 04:26:51.440
I was away on vacation.

04:26:51.440 --> 04:26:54.120
I made the assumption it was going to be another workshop

04:26:54.120 --> 04:26:56.440
with the commission, not a public hearing.

04:26:56.440 --> 04:26:59.440
Didn't get out to our group in a timely manner.

04:26:59.440 --> 04:27:02.450
We will be followed or I will be followed by two other

04:27:02.450 --> 04:27:05.440
speakers who will address some of the issues we've

04:27:05.440 --> 04:27:08.440
concerned about but don't necessarily well educated on.

04:27:08.440 --> 04:27:11.000
We hadn't even had a chance to get together and talk about

04:27:11.000 --> 04:27:11.440
them.

04:27:11.440 --> 04:27:14.440
You should have a number of cards up there also.

04:27:14.440 --> 04:27:15.440
I apologize.

04:27:15.440 --> 04:27:18.719
They should be white and not blue, but from DCDA members

04:27:18.719 --> 04:27:20.440
indicating opposition.

04:27:20.440 --> 04:27:22.920
And the main reason is we just want an opportunity to

04:27:22.920 --> 04:27:25.520
better understand this code and give some input and

04:27:25.520 --> 04:27:28.440
response and thoughts back to the staff and the commission

04:27:28.440 --> 04:27:30.440
and hopefully the city council.

04:27:30.440 --> 04:27:31.440
So we appreciate that.

04:27:31.440 --> 04:27:33.440
Thank you for the opportunity.

04:27:33.440 --> 04:27:34.440
I have one question for you.

04:27:34.440 --> 04:27:35.440
Sure.

04:27:35.440 --> 04:27:37.440
You mentioned you'd like to see this postponed.

04:27:37.440 --> 04:27:40.850
Do you have a time frame if the commission would entertain

04:27:40.850 --> 04:27:43.969
that that you would think is reasonable to give you an

04:27:43.969 --> 04:27:47.309
opportunity to review this and hash out whatever issues

04:27:47.309 --> 04:27:53.440
there may be between yourselves and your association staff?

04:27:53.440 --> 04:27:55.440
I would think at least a month.

04:27:55.440 --> 04:27:57.729
And the reason I say that is because we need to time

04:27:57.729 --> 04:28:00.440
schedule time when we can get our our group together.

04:28:00.440 --> 04:28:03.329
It wouldn't be our full group, but a reasonable number of

04:28:03.329 --> 04:28:06.219
representatives along with the staff and actually have a

04:28:06.219 --> 04:28:08.979
meeting and maybe a two or three hour workshop to go over

04:28:08.979 --> 04:28:11.440
this and understand it and see where we are.

04:28:11.440 --> 04:28:14.979
And then I think once we have that workshop, then I feel

04:28:14.979 --> 04:28:18.149
like I could pledge that within a week to 10 days, we could

04:28:18.149 --> 04:28:19.440
come up with a paper.

04:28:19.440 --> 04:28:21.440
And if we don't have something by then, we don't have it.

04:28:21.440 --> 04:28:23.440
And that's our fault.

04:28:23.440 --> 04:28:27.780
Well, I know that this item, I think it's been 2000, I

04:28:27.780 --> 04:28:31.360
think it's four since the last time that this has been

04:28:31.360 --> 04:28:32.440
addressed.

04:28:32.440 --> 04:28:35.049
So we're kind of 11 years so far to get it addressed and

04:28:35.049 --> 04:28:36.440
understand your concern.

04:28:36.440 --> 04:28:38.440
I want to make sure it's correct.

04:28:38.440 --> 04:28:41.440
Would 45 or 60 days give you time, you think?

04:28:41.440 --> 04:28:42.440
I would say yes.

04:28:42.440 --> 04:28:45.270
And I feel like our relationship with the staff is such

04:28:45.270 --> 04:28:48.100
that they would work with us so we can be quickly and get

04:28:48.100 --> 04:28:49.440
this taken care of.

04:28:49.440 --> 04:28:50.440
Pardon me.

04:28:50.440 --> 04:28:51.440
Great.

04:28:51.440 --> 04:28:54.440
Pardon me.

04:28:54.440 --> 04:28:56.440
Commissioner Dadovitz.

04:28:56.440 --> 04:28:59.440
Could you state the association again?

04:28:59.440 --> 04:29:09.440
Denton Community Development Alliance.

04:29:09.440 --> 04:29:13.159
Been around for about three years and may be effective for

04:29:13.159 --> 04:29:16.440
30 minutes now, but we're getting there.

04:29:16.440 --> 04:29:17.440
One more question so far.

04:29:17.440 --> 04:29:18.440
Commissioner Beck.

04:29:18.440 --> 04:29:19.440
Thank you, Chair.

04:29:19.440 --> 04:29:22.139
And you mentioned that a couple of other people follow

04:29:22.139 --> 04:29:25.280
behind you and probably give us some reasons why you might

04:29:25.280 --> 04:29:26.440
object to this.

04:29:26.440 --> 04:29:29.819
But just top of your head, what would probably be the

04:29:29.819 --> 04:29:32.440
biggest thing that you've seen here?

04:29:32.440 --> 04:29:37.180
From my perspective, I know right now when we do due

04:29:37.180 --> 04:29:43.440
diligence for other developers, vacant land gets a pro.

04:29:43.440 --> 04:29:45.440
Trees gets a con.

04:29:45.440 --> 04:29:49.360
If I can find trees in the right location, three dimension

04:29:49.360 --> 04:29:51.440
ally, that's a super plus.

04:29:51.440 --> 04:29:53.440
But that's hard to do.

04:29:53.440 --> 04:29:59.030
And trees, unfortunately, can limit the marketability of a

04:29:59.030 --> 04:30:04.440
particular site just because of where they're located.

04:30:04.440 --> 04:30:08.700
And by the time we have to mitigate trees that are in

04:30:08.700 --> 04:30:13.139
proposed street right aways, if we have to deal with all

04:30:13.139 --> 04:30:14.440
the grading and the detention ponds,

04:30:14.440 --> 04:30:17.850
and the four to one slopes, and not be able to have multi-

04:30:17.850 --> 04:30:20.760
users, there's more to this site development part than just

04:30:20.760 --> 04:30:21.440
the trees.

04:30:21.440 --> 04:30:24.709
But by the time we meet everybody's requirements,

04:30:24.709 --> 04:30:27.950
particularly in a lot of what I do is in sites that I'm

04:30:27.950 --> 04:30:30.440
going to say are five acres or less.

04:30:30.440 --> 04:30:33.440
Give me 100 acres, I can do a lot with trees.

04:30:33.440 --> 04:30:37.950
Give me five acres or less, and it's very problematic what

04:30:37.950 --> 04:30:41.840
you can do to design around them and still have a market

04:30:41.840 --> 04:30:43.440
able site at the price that landowner wants for a site.

04:30:43.440 --> 04:30:45.440
That landowner wants for that piece of property.

04:30:45.440 --> 04:30:47.440
But you're not opposed to trees.

04:30:47.440 --> 04:30:51.540
I mean, would you agree that trees actually enhance the

04:30:51.540 --> 04:30:53.440
value of property too?

04:30:53.440 --> 04:30:55.440
You'd have to ask a developer then.

04:30:55.440 --> 04:30:58.440
Yes, if I can, again, if I can have the trees in the right

04:30:58.440 --> 04:31:01.430
location, three dimensionally, they greatly enhance the

04:31:01.430 --> 04:31:02.440
value of the property.

04:31:02.440 --> 04:31:05.389
But when I have to pay more to mitigate a tree than what

04:31:05.389 --> 04:31:08.629
the price of the land is per acre, that's a deterrent to

04:31:08.629 --> 04:31:11.440
the value of that property and to development.

04:31:11.440 --> 04:31:15.409
And those are just economic conditions that land developers

04:31:15.409 --> 04:31:18.700
have to consider when they're deciding what to do with a

04:31:18.700 --> 04:31:20.440
particular piece of property.

04:31:20.440 --> 04:31:24.260
Particularly older property that's in the city that's

04:31:24.260 --> 04:31:28.360
already geometrically set, particularly those that are

04:31:28.360 --> 04:31:31.440
already planted, makes it difficult.

04:31:31.440 --> 04:31:32.440
Okay.

04:31:32.440 --> 04:31:33.440
Thank you, sir.

04:31:33.440 --> 04:31:36.350
I'd like to speak to Commissioner Beck's question about

04:31:36.350 --> 04:31:38.440
developers' perspective on trees.

04:31:38.440 --> 04:31:41.440
I think trees add great value to projects.

04:31:41.440 --> 04:31:45.290
And I know probably some of the engineers here will speak

04:31:45.290 --> 04:31:49.110
that there's, I know, at least one tree in Denton in the

04:31:49.110 --> 04:31:52.440
middle of the street on Holland Park Circle.

04:31:52.440 --> 04:31:54.440
There's a reason why.

04:31:54.440 --> 04:31:56.440
And those things are hard to get done.

04:31:56.440 --> 04:31:59.530
And there's another one over on Tremont Circle that had to

04:31:59.530 --> 04:32:02.440
be a private street in this city to be able to have the

04:32:02.440 --> 04:32:07.440
curve data be outside of city spec to save probably a 24

04:32:07.440 --> 04:32:07.440
hour day.

04:32:07.440 --> 04:32:09.440
Probably a 24 inch oak tree.

04:32:09.440 --> 04:32:12.399
So not all developers want to just clear cut everything and

04:32:12.399 --> 04:32:13.440
take it all away.

04:32:13.440 --> 04:32:16.909
But there is a point where not only from site design

04:32:16.909 --> 04:32:20.850
standpoint, but also where the trees are located on lots

04:32:20.850 --> 04:32:24.440
that make it where it is impossible to save them.

04:32:24.440 --> 04:32:30.690
Otherwise, they do add value and price appreciation to a

04:32:30.690 --> 04:32:32.440
lot's value.

04:32:32.440 --> 04:32:36.559
And so I would concur that I think it's a very important

04:32:36.559 --> 04:32:40.659
thing for us to do and to do very well to preserve as many

04:32:40.659 --> 04:32:42.440
trees as possible.

04:32:42.440 --> 04:32:45.870
I do have a project in the ETJ, Denton's ETJ, where we went

04:32:45.870 --> 04:32:49.020
to the county to get a variant so we could split the road

04:32:49.020 --> 04:32:51.440
to have trees and an island in between.

04:32:51.440 --> 04:32:55.290
And we got it approved, but it was a little bit of a battle

04:32:55.290 --> 04:32:59.350
to save trees in that case because of roads and maintenance

04:32:59.350 --> 04:33:01.440
and things of that nature.

04:33:01.440 --> 04:33:06.439
Any other questions for Mr. Allison?

04:33:06.439 --> 04:33:07.439
Thank you.

04:33:07.439 --> 04:33:09.439
Thank you.

04:33:09.439 --> 04:33:13.990
Next card is for Larry Reichart and he is speaking in

04:33:13.990 --> 04:33:15.439
opposition.

04:33:15.439 --> 04:33:18.439
Thank you. Larry Reichart, 2228 Jefferson Trail.

04:33:18.439 --> 04:33:21.439
I also represent DCDA.

04:33:21.439 --> 04:33:25.540
And to answer your question about trees, I was a practicing

04:33:25.540 --> 04:33:28.439
landscape architect for over 30 years.

04:33:28.439 --> 04:33:31.540
I don't do that now, so I've let my license expire so I can

04:33:31.540 --> 04:33:34.439
't legally call myself a landscape architect.

04:33:34.439 --> 04:33:40.439
But for me, a tree in the wrong place is a weed.

04:33:40.439 --> 04:33:44.830
If it's in the wrong place, it's a weed and it needs to be

04:33:44.830 --> 04:33:49.439
removed and then replaced with other plant material.

04:33:49.439 --> 04:33:52.909
I mean, I love trees and they do give value if they're in

04:33:52.909 --> 04:33:54.439
the right location.

04:33:54.439 --> 04:33:57.840
And to go, I'm going to get in the weeds real quick, but to

04:33:57.840 --> 04:34:00.439
answer that question a little further,

04:34:00.439 --> 04:34:06.990
one of the concerns I have is the preservation requirements

04:34:06.990 --> 04:34:07.439
.

04:34:07.439 --> 04:34:12.439
And it's 20 to 40%.

04:34:12.439 --> 04:34:15.880
If you have a site that, I have a one acre site and it's

04:34:15.880 --> 04:34:22.439
covered by 20 to 40% trees, I use an example of 30%.

04:34:22.439 --> 04:34:27.150
When I get done the mitigation, I have to preserve 60% of

04:34:27.150 --> 04:34:28.439
those trees.

04:34:28.439 --> 04:34:33.909
That's almost 20% of my site that I have to preserve and

04:34:33.909 --> 04:34:35.439
not utilize.

04:34:35.439 --> 04:34:39.209
So when I'm going to buy that property, now I'm paying 20%

04:34:39.209 --> 04:34:42.439
less than I am for that property right next to it.

04:34:42.439 --> 04:34:46.110
Or it's going to cost me more and it's going to cost the

04:34:46.110 --> 04:34:50.439
new homeowner 20% more if I have to take those trees out.

04:34:50.439 --> 04:34:53.990
So it depends on where they are, like Lee said, and they

04:34:53.990 --> 04:34:55.439
can be a detriment.

04:34:55.439 --> 04:34:58.439
Trees should be a positive for almost every site.

04:34:58.439 --> 04:35:02.959
And one of the concerns I have is the amount of

04:35:02.959 --> 04:35:07.439
preservation credit you give for trees.

04:35:07.439 --> 04:35:10.439
The heritage tree gets a two for one credit.

04:35:10.439 --> 04:35:13.439
And again, it's based on DVD and not canopy.

04:35:13.439 --> 04:35:16.639
And I think that's a big problem with this code, going back

04:35:16.639 --> 04:35:17.439
and forth.

04:35:17.439 --> 04:35:20.439
If it's canopy, let's preserve canopy.

04:35:20.439 --> 04:35:23.569
It's really easy to calculate canopy with the aerials we

04:35:23.569 --> 04:35:24.439
have today.

04:35:24.439 --> 04:35:29.959
But on the canopy tree and the protected trees, I only get

04:35:29.959 --> 04:35:32.439
a one for one credit for preserving them.

04:35:32.439 --> 04:35:34.439
Where's my incentive?

04:35:34.439 --> 04:35:36.439
There is no incentive.

04:35:36.439 --> 04:35:39.439
I saved a tree, I saved a tree.

04:35:39.439 --> 04:35:43.619
If you really wanted to preserve existing canopy, give me

04:35:43.619 --> 04:35:47.349
some real credit for that tree towards my landscape

04:35:47.349 --> 04:35:48.439
requirements.

04:35:48.439 --> 04:35:51.799
And now I'm saving that tree instead of planting four new

04:35:51.799 --> 04:35:52.439
trees.

04:35:52.439 --> 04:35:55.479
So that's something in this code I think needs to be

04:35:55.479 --> 04:35:56.439
addressed.

04:35:56.439 --> 04:35:59.299
One of the bigger concerns I have is that there's the

04:35:59.299 --> 04:36:02.810
companion piece, the site design criteria manual that's

04:36:02.810 --> 04:36:07.439
identified in this code throughout, isn't prepared yet.

04:36:07.439 --> 04:36:10.439
We have no idea what that says.

04:36:10.439 --> 04:36:14.759
The existing criteria manual has examples from the existing

04:36:14.759 --> 04:36:15.439
code.

04:36:15.439 --> 04:36:20.610
Are there going to be examples how to calculate the canopy

04:36:20.610 --> 04:36:22.439
and everything?

04:36:22.439 --> 04:36:26.750
You know, the canopy tree being 18 inches and below, if I

04:36:26.750 --> 04:36:31.889
have a site filled with four inch trees, saplings, I have

04:36:31.889 --> 04:36:34.439
to preserve those, theoretically.

04:36:34.439 --> 04:36:37.080
I don't need a permit to cut them down, but now I have a

04:36:37.080 --> 04:36:39.840
canopy on the property and I'm going to have to preserve

04:36:39.840 --> 04:36:42.439
all those four inch trees.

04:36:42.439 --> 04:36:43.439
Is that what we're saying?

04:36:43.439 --> 04:36:44.439
That's what the code says.

04:36:44.439 --> 04:36:46.439
I'm not sure if that's what we're saying.

04:36:46.439 --> 04:36:51.220
In field development, if I have one tree on an infill land,

04:36:51.220 --> 04:36:55.520
I have to preserve that tree no matter where it is or pay

04:36:55.520 --> 04:36:57.439
into the tree fund.

04:36:57.439 --> 04:37:01.299
If it's an 18 inch tree, I'm paying over $12,000 into the

04:37:01.299 --> 04:37:03.439
tree fund to do infill development.

04:37:03.439 --> 04:37:08.439
I've just lost any affordability on that lot.

04:37:08.439 --> 04:37:11.500
It's not clear residential properties are exempt, but unde

04:37:11.500 --> 04:37:13.439
veloped residential properties?

04:37:13.439 --> 04:37:18.439
I don't know.

04:37:18.439 --> 04:37:21.159
Commissioner Taylor brought up something about the tree

04:37:21.159 --> 04:37:24.540
fund and one of the key things it was supposed to do with

04:37:24.540 --> 04:37:29.439
the tree fund money was to purchase property and save huge

04:37:29.439 --> 04:37:29.439
chunks.

04:37:29.439 --> 04:37:32.700
We've got, what was it, $3 million or more into the tree

04:37:32.700 --> 04:37:33.439
fund now.

04:37:33.439 --> 04:37:35.439
So it's just planting trees.

04:37:35.439 --> 04:37:39.000
We should be looking at purchasing properties that are

04:37:39.000 --> 04:37:42.799
right for development and just letting them, preserving

04:37:42.799 --> 04:37:43.439
them.

04:37:43.439 --> 04:37:48.340
And that was in there as an option that was never taken

04:37:48.340 --> 04:37:49.439
care of.

04:37:49.439 --> 04:37:53.209
One of my big pet peeves is that in the presentation, it

04:37:53.209 --> 04:37:56.439
was mentioned the city should lead the way.

04:37:56.439 --> 04:37:57.439
I agree.

04:37:57.439 --> 04:38:01.970
And why are we exempting the landfill, the airport, all

04:38:01.970 --> 04:38:06.439
utilities, road projects, and DME?

04:38:06.439 --> 04:38:09.439
That's absolutely nuts.

04:38:09.439 --> 04:38:14.569
That's half the trees that probably get cut down in this

04:38:14.569 --> 04:38:15.439
city.

04:38:15.439 --> 04:38:18.180
The one thing I loved in this is the new definition for

04:38:18.180 --> 04:38:21.439
topping, which is an inappropriate pruning technique.

04:38:21.439 --> 04:38:26.439
I hope it applies to DME as we go forward.

04:38:26.439 --> 04:38:29.439
A little sarcasm, sorry.

04:38:29.439 --> 04:38:33.110
Like the infill, there's a requirement that a note be

04:38:33.110 --> 04:38:36.439
placed on a plat regarding preservation trees.

04:38:36.439 --> 04:38:40.439
That tree is going to die eventually.

04:38:40.439 --> 04:38:43.369
And my question is, do I need to get an arborist to get a

04:38:43.369 --> 04:38:46.590
death certificate to bring into the city to amend that plat

04:38:46.590 --> 04:38:49.439
to remove that restriction when the tree dies?

04:38:49.439 --> 04:38:53.180
There shouldn't be a note on the plat regarding tree

04:38:53.180 --> 04:38:56.439
preservation of anything that will die.

04:38:56.439 --> 04:39:00.990
I can go on, but there's a, and don't get me wrong, I think

04:39:00.990 --> 04:39:03.439
the bones here are fabulous.

04:39:03.439 --> 04:39:05.439
Trying to simplify this.

04:39:05.439 --> 04:39:08.939
I think we need to stick to canopy instead of dropping back

04:39:08.939 --> 04:39:12.439
and forth between DBH and canopy and stuff like that.

04:39:12.439 --> 04:39:15.319
I think trying to simplify it, I think the steps they've

04:39:15.319 --> 04:39:18.439
taken have gotten, the bones are there.

04:39:18.439 --> 04:39:21.439
To me, it just needs a little bit of tweaking.

04:39:21.439 --> 04:39:27.700
I mean, I raised a lot of issues, but they can easily be

04:39:27.700 --> 04:39:29.439
addressed.

04:39:29.439 --> 04:39:33.450
There's a few other ones that I really would like to talk,

04:39:33.450 --> 04:39:36.229
like the opportunity to work with staff, and I know I've

04:39:36.229 --> 04:39:37.439
gone over my time.

04:39:37.439 --> 04:39:40.500
And again, if the canopy of the trees are so important, I

04:39:40.500 --> 04:39:43.389
think we should be sticking with canopy, regardless of the

04:39:43.389 --> 04:39:44.439
size of the tree.

04:39:44.439 --> 04:39:48.720
If we can preserve canopy, that's what we should be aiming

04:39:48.720 --> 04:39:49.439
to do.

04:39:49.439 --> 04:39:55.560
And not necessarily saving heritage trees and identifying

04:39:55.560 --> 04:39:57.439
certain diameters.

04:39:57.439 --> 04:39:59.439
If it's canopy, it's canopy.

04:39:59.439 --> 04:40:02.439
That's my two cents.

04:40:02.439 --> 04:40:03.439
Perfect time.

04:40:03.439 --> 04:40:04.439
Any questions?

04:40:04.439 --> 04:40:05.439
Got a question.

04:40:05.439 --> 04:40:06.439
Commissioner Rossell.

04:40:06.439 --> 04:40:07.439
Thank you, Chair.

04:40:07.439 --> 04:40:11.450
Just a quick question, again, just so I can try to frame an

04:40:11.450 --> 04:40:15.360
area in which I'm not familiar in, and those here seem to

04:40:15.360 --> 04:40:16.439
be experts.

04:40:16.439 --> 04:40:19.650
Do you work in any other jurisdictions that you could shed

04:40:19.650 --> 04:40:23.060
light on their incentives for tree preservation as compared

04:40:23.060 --> 04:40:24.439
to this one-to-one?

04:40:24.439 --> 04:40:25.439
I don't know what other jurisdictions.

04:40:25.439 --> 04:40:27.439
No, but I'm sure we can get them.

04:40:27.439 --> 04:40:30.439
I don't recall any offhand.

04:40:30.439 --> 04:40:34.759
I do work in a number, right now the majority of my

04:40:34.759 --> 04:40:39.639
projects are farther out in Ellis County right now and up

04:40:39.639 --> 04:40:41.439
in Grayson County.

04:40:41.439 --> 04:40:44.439
And they're not as sophisticated, quite honestly.

04:40:44.439 --> 04:40:47.840
I work with other folks that are working in Prosper and

04:40:47.840 --> 04:40:51.259
Fort Worth and other communities, and we can get that

04:40:51.259 --> 04:40:52.439
information.

04:40:52.439 --> 04:40:55.709
My personal feeling is that if you want to preserve, if you

04:40:55.709 --> 04:40:58.909
really want to impact tree canopy, you do it through your

04:40:58.909 --> 04:41:03.549
landscape requirements and give really good incentives to

04:41:03.549 --> 04:41:05.439
save existing trees.

04:41:05.439 --> 04:41:07.439
Thank you.

04:41:07.439 --> 04:41:11.439
Thank you.

04:41:11.439 --> 04:41:15.439
Our next speaker will be Rod Zilke.

04:41:15.439 --> 04:41:19.220
And his card, your card's not marked in support or

04:41:19.220 --> 04:41:20.439
opposition.

04:41:20.439 --> 04:41:25.439
I am neither.

04:41:25.439 --> 04:41:27.439
Mr. Chairman and commissioners, my name's Rod Zilke.

04:41:27.439 --> 04:41:33.240
I'm with ZPS Consulting Engineers at 1111 South Main Street

04:41:33.240 --> 04:41:35.439
in Grapevine, Texas.

04:41:35.439 --> 04:41:40.810
For those of you who are new commissioners, you may not

04:41:40.810 --> 04:41:47.009
recognize me, our firm is currently representing, I'm going

04:41:47.009 --> 04:41:51.369
to say, six projects in Denton, multiphase projects,

04:41:51.369 --> 04:41:54.439
minimum of 20 acres, probably to 100 acres.

04:41:54.439 --> 04:41:57.700
So it's a little different perspective than you've gotten

04:41:57.700 --> 04:41:58.439
from Lee.

04:41:58.439 --> 04:42:02.150
And I'm not going to try and focus on the details like

04:42:02.150 --> 04:42:06.380
Larry did, but I'm here to support the concept of amending

04:42:06.380 --> 04:42:10.639
the ordinance that we have because it's so complicated and

04:42:10.639 --> 04:42:12.439
difficult to apply.

04:42:12.439 --> 04:42:17.889
But I'm also here to support DCDA and their request to

04:42:17.889 --> 04:42:21.439
postpone this consideration.

04:42:21.439 --> 04:42:25.450
Give you a different perspective on why I think you should

04:42:25.450 --> 04:42:27.439
consider postponing it.

04:42:27.439 --> 04:42:30.540
As an engineer, the first thing I did when I saw a draft of

04:42:30.540 --> 04:42:33.419
this earlier this week is I thought a good way to test

04:42:33.419 --> 04:42:35.439
anything is to try and apply it.

04:42:35.439 --> 04:42:40.180
I have, like I told you, multiple hundred acres of projects

04:42:40.180 --> 04:42:44.459
that we've been engaged with staff over the last couple

04:42:44.459 --> 04:42:49.659
years working out multiple issues with tree preservation, E

04:42:49.659 --> 04:42:50.439
SA.

04:42:50.439 --> 04:42:53.869
I feel like I'm somewhat of an expert on applying the

04:42:53.869 --> 04:42:57.439
current code and working with your current staff.

04:42:57.439 --> 04:43:00.830
And I'll tell you that when I picked up this ordinance and

04:43:00.830 --> 04:43:04.209
tried to apply it to our projects to see how it compared,

04:43:04.209 --> 04:43:05.439
you can't do it.

04:43:05.439 --> 04:43:08.439
There's not enough information here.

04:43:08.439 --> 04:43:14.919
The code, we frequently refer to the site design criteria

04:43:14.919 --> 04:43:21.669
manual for information in the code amendment, and that hasn

04:43:21.669 --> 04:43:24.439
't been provided yet.

04:43:24.439 --> 04:43:29.250
Now, talking to staff, they may have done a scenario on a

04:43:29.250 --> 04:43:34.220
sample piece of property and assumed some of those criteria

04:43:34.220 --> 04:43:34.439
,

04:43:34.439 --> 04:43:37.939
but I can't advise you or give you my opinion because I can

04:43:37.939 --> 04:43:40.439
't apply the ordinance the way it is.

04:43:40.439 --> 04:43:43.439
I'll give you a couple examples.

04:43:43.439 --> 04:43:46.709
The preservation rates under this current code seem high

04:43:46.709 --> 04:43:49.439
when you compare them to the existing code.

04:43:49.439 --> 04:43:53.759
Right now in the existing code, if I way oversimplify and

04:43:53.759 --> 04:43:58.080
just kind of apply them in general to our projects, we're

04:43:58.080 --> 04:44:02.669
in general preserving about 20% of the caliper inches of

04:44:02.669 --> 04:44:04.439
trees on a property.

04:44:04.439 --> 04:44:08.779
Well, the code now says that when I look at our properties

04:44:08.779 --> 04:44:13.490
that we might be required to preserve 60% to 70% of the

04:44:13.490 --> 04:44:14.439
canopy.

04:44:14.439 --> 04:44:19.000
Well, that sounds high, but it depends on the exempt tree

04:44:19.000 --> 04:44:23.439
list, and there is no exempt tree list provided yet.

04:44:23.439 --> 04:44:26.590
So maybe if you eliminate all the mesquite trees and cedar

04:44:26.590 --> 04:44:30.250
trees and everything and I apply it to my project, maybe 60

04:44:30.250 --> 04:44:32.439
% is more comparable to 20%.

04:44:32.439 --> 04:44:35.439
I can't tell you.

04:44:35.439 --> 04:44:39.650
Another thing that seems out of whack is the mitigation

04:44:39.650 --> 04:44:40.439
ratio.

04:44:40.439 --> 04:44:44.930
Right now we're mitigating trees at about, again, it's very

04:44:44.930 --> 04:44:48.799
complicated ordinance and it varies, but on average one to

04:44:48.799 --> 04:44:50.439
one when we mitigate.

04:44:50.439 --> 04:44:53.439
Well, now we're going to one to four.

04:44:53.439 --> 04:44:58.180
Well, that's pretty extreme, but it depends on the rate

04:44:58.180 --> 04:45:00.439
that mitigation costs.

04:45:00.439 --> 04:45:03.439
And there's no, I mean, that's not provided yet.

04:45:03.439 --> 04:45:07.220
That's site design criteria information or site design

04:45:07.220 --> 04:45:11.439
criteria manual information that's yet to be determined.

04:45:11.439 --> 04:45:16.889
So, I mean, just to make it simple, if we went to a one to

04:45:16.889 --> 04:45:23.029
four ratio, but the rate was 25% of what the previous rate

04:45:23.029 --> 04:45:25.439
was, it'd be the same.

04:45:25.439 --> 04:45:29.200
So there's a lot of information missing here that I think

04:45:29.200 --> 04:45:33.200
it would be really beneficial for staff and the development

04:45:33.200 --> 04:45:38.069
community that has to apply this and work with it every day

04:45:38.069 --> 04:45:38.439
.

04:45:38.439 --> 04:45:41.459
I think it would be very beneficial for staff to get that

04:45:41.459 --> 04:45:42.439
perspective.

04:45:42.439 --> 04:45:44.439
I sure appreciate the effort they've put in.

04:45:44.439 --> 04:45:48.700
I recognize that they've structured this ordinance to be in

04:45:48.700 --> 04:45:52.880
line with other communities and have done that research,

04:45:52.880 --> 04:45:57.479
but I would encourage them to test the ordinance on more

04:45:57.479 --> 04:46:01.799
than one sample piece of property before they profess it's

04:46:01.799 --> 04:46:04.439
a good solution to our problem.

04:46:04.439 --> 04:46:05.439
Thank you.

04:46:05.439 --> 04:46:06.439
Thank you.

04:46:06.439 --> 04:46:09.439
See no questions.

04:46:09.439 --> 04:46:14.439
I have some cards with a note on it.

04:46:14.439 --> 04:46:17.430
That they do not wish to speak but would like their

04:46:17.430 --> 04:46:19.439
comments read in the record.

04:46:19.439 --> 04:46:35.299
I have a comment from Ryan Davenport at 1920 North Lake

04:46:35.299 --> 04:46:40.439
Trail and didn't. It's an opposition wish for this agenda

04:46:40.439 --> 04:46:40.439
item be postponed for consideration until such time didn't

04:46:40.439 --> 04:46:40.439
community development Alliance can review the item before

04:46:40.439 --> 04:46:40.439
and develop a response for this issue.

04:46:40.439 --> 04:46:49.520
I have a card from Chris Ross from at 2113 Emerson and didn

04:46:49.520 --> 04:46:55.150
't. He's in opposition ordinance please delay action until

04:46:55.150 --> 04:46:59.439
the merits of the ordinance can be reviewed by many

04:46:59.439 --> 04:47:04.439
Dalton Allen at 111 Lexington.

04:47:04.439 --> 04:47:08.979
In opposition, would like to postpone acceptance of the

04:47:08.979 --> 04:47:13.709
tree orness until staff can meet with DC, da concerning the

04:47:13.709 --> 04:47:14.439
subject.

04:47:14.439 --> 04:47:19.459
Can't read the first name last name is stone at 6827

04:47:19.459 --> 04:47:21.439
Freeman road crumb.

04:47:21.439 --> 04:47:24.439
Steve, okay, Steve stone.

04:47:24.439 --> 04:47:31.439
He's in opposition, always to request a postponement.

04:47:31.439 --> 04:47:38.080
Kent key at 2925 Country Club is in opposition. He has no

04:47:38.080 --> 04:47:40.439
comment.

04:47:40.439 --> 04:47:46.439
Richard Hayes at 819 West Oak is an opposition.

04:47:46.439 --> 04:47:50.720
He requests, continue the hearing to allow residents time

04:47:50.720 --> 04:47:53.439
to study and comment on proposals.

04:47:53.439 --> 04:47:57.439
Those are all the comment cards that we have on this item.

04:47:57.439 --> 04:48:01.209
I think everybody that's left in the room has either spoken

04:48:01.209 --> 04:48:02.439
or given a card.

04:48:02.439 --> 04:48:05.869
It is a public hearing I'll make a final call for anybody

04:48:05.869 --> 04:48:09.439
else who would like to speak on this particular item.

04:48:09.439 --> 04:48:14.240
Seeing none I will close the public hearing and open the

04:48:14.240 --> 04:48:17.439
floor for discussion or a motion.

04:48:17.439 --> 04:48:19.439
Commissioner Beck. Thank you, Chair.

04:48:19.439 --> 04:48:24.439
I guess maybe this question would go to Shondra.

04:48:24.439 --> 04:48:30.439
The delay is connected in part to a lack of criteria.

04:48:30.439 --> 04:48:35.439
How far away is staff from providing a criteria?

04:48:35.439 --> 04:48:38.439
Actually, the site design criteria manual already exists.

04:48:38.439 --> 04:48:41.439
I think what they're referring to is the exempt trees list,

04:48:41.439 --> 04:48:44.970
which currently is the secondary trees that's listed in the

04:48:44.970 --> 04:48:46.439
existing ordinance.

04:48:46.439 --> 04:48:50.290
We would just update that and include it into the site

04:48:50.290 --> 04:48:52.439
design criteria manual.

04:48:52.439 --> 04:48:56.319
We would also need to provide them eventually some

04:48:56.319 --> 04:49:00.439
education on how to do the calculations for preservation

04:49:00.439 --> 04:49:01.439
and mitigation.

04:49:01.439 --> 04:49:04.439
And we would include that in the manual as well.

04:49:04.439 --> 04:49:07.650
Could we bring all this up to speed, say, if we delayed it

04:49:07.650 --> 04:49:09.439
for 45, 60 days?

04:49:09.439 --> 04:49:13.889
Would that give you all enough time to do what you need to

04:49:13.889 --> 04:49:14.439
do?

04:49:14.439 --> 04:49:18.439
Possibly.

04:49:18.439 --> 04:49:21.970
If I can interject, what we will first do is actually go

04:49:21.970 --> 04:49:25.740
ahead and have a couple of workshops with DCDA so that we

04:49:25.740 --> 04:49:28.330
can walk through the ordinance and do a page turn with them

04:49:28.330 --> 04:49:34.439
, seek their input as well, and also give them our input.

04:49:34.439 --> 04:49:37.770
We do have individuals within our team that come with

04:49:37.770 --> 04:49:40.909
discipline from several communities, so that would be

04:49:40.909 --> 04:49:41.439
advantageous.

04:49:41.439 --> 04:49:44.529
And of course, we would use DCDA to our advantage and

04:49:44.529 --> 04:49:47.569
understand what our engineering community and our

04:49:47.569 --> 04:49:50.819
development community needs and what their obstacles and

04:49:50.819 --> 04:49:54.610
hurdles are when it comes to tree mitigation and

04:49:54.610 --> 04:49:57.990
preservation, generally speaking, and then drill down into

04:49:57.990 --> 04:50:00.439
what we need for the city of Denton.

04:50:00.439 --> 04:50:02.439
So we actually welcome that opportunity.

04:50:02.439 --> 04:50:05.799
We continue to foster our relationship with DCDA, and I

04:50:05.799 --> 04:50:09.220
think this would be one of the steps forward to enhance our

04:50:09.220 --> 04:50:10.439
relationship.

04:50:10.439 --> 04:50:13.990
In order to get to the point where we need to be as well as

04:50:13.990 --> 04:50:18.479
amend the design criteria manual, realistically speaking,

04:50:18.479 --> 04:50:23.389
and with our notification requirements and parameters, 60

04:50:23.389 --> 04:50:25.439
days is not sufficient.

04:50:25.439 --> 04:50:27.439
45 days is not sufficient.

04:50:27.439 --> 04:50:31.500
So if we're going to look at this opportunity, I would

04:50:31.500 --> 04:50:35.930
recommend, or I would suggest, let me rephrase, that we

04:50:35.930 --> 04:50:40.540
postpone this indefinitely until we come to some resolution

04:50:40.540 --> 04:50:48.479
with DCDA and with understanding the milestones associated

04:50:48.479 --> 04:50:53.439
with the design criteria manual.

04:50:53.439 --> 04:50:55.439
Commissioner Rossell.

04:50:55.439 --> 04:50:57.439
Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

04:50:57.439 --> 04:51:01.520
If this does get postponed, or maybe even it doesn't, I

04:51:01.520 --> 04:51:05.540
would like there to be some conversation, whether it's

04:51:05.540 --> 04:51:09.209
internally at the staff level or with DCDA about the

04:51:09.209 --> 04:51:11.439
preservation incentives.

04:51:11.439 --> 04:51:14.380
We just had a really lengthy conversation about how we're

04:51:14.380 --> 04:51:17.330
not necessarily fans of cutting down a tree and replacing

04:51:17.330 --> 04:51:18.439
it just with one.

04:51:18.439 --> 04:51:22.240
And so if there's a protected tree of 18 inches, there's

04:51:22.240 --> 04:51:25.590
not really an incentive for them to just cut it down and

04:51:25.590 --> 04:51:29.069
replace it with a sapling, which seemed like in earlier

04:51:29.069 --> 04:51:31.830
discussions is not necessarily what we'd like to see

04:51:31.830 --> 04:51:34.939
because of the maturity rate and those things brought up

04:51:34.939 --> 04:51:35.439
previously.

04:51:35.439 --> 04:51:40.270
So I would just encourage maybe increasing the incentives,

04:51:40.270 --> 04:51:44.810
if not increasing them across the board, at least change

04:51:44.810 --> 04:51:49.549
the protected incentive and the canopy incentive to be tier

04:51:49.549 --> 04:51:51.439
ed up or something.

04:51:51.439 --> 04:51:55.750
It just seems like if we are valuing the old trees that are

04:51:55.750 --> 04:52:00.040
here and existing, then maybe the incentives could be a

04:52:00.040 --> 04:52:02.439
little bit more generous.

04:52:02.439 --> 04:52:05.439
Okay.

04:52:05.439 --> 04:52:06.439
I have a comment as well.

04:52:06.439 --> 04:52:08.439
I would like to piggyback on that.

04:52:08.439 --> 04:52:11.319
I think it is important and I think it's come before this

04:52:11.319 --> 04:52:14.169
commission and there have been a lot of comments about

04:52:14.169 --> 04:52:15.439
preserving trees.

04:52:15.439 --> 04:52:18.439
And I'm surprised to see that it's a one-to-one.

04:52:18.439 --> 04:52:20.990
I agree if we're going to make it a priority to save them

04:52:20.990 --> 04:52:23.439
that, you know, it needs to be incentivized.

04:52:23.439 --> 04:52:27.500
Otherwise, there's not an incentive if it's in the way you

04:52:27.500 --> 04:52:31.369
move it and just replace it versus it's at least a two-to-

04:52:31.369 --> 04:52:33.439
one and maybe even more.

04:52:33.439 --> 04:52:38.490
And I think Mr. Reichart made a good point about if these

04:52:38.490 --> 04:52:42.709
are identified on the final plat and identified and

04:52:42.709 --> 04:52:46.439
ultimately they die, how that is to be handled.

04:52:46.439 --> 04:52:49.909
So I don't know if there's a procedure that will be put in

04:52:49.909 --> 04:52:53.459
place for that or how that gets addressed, but I see that

04:52:53.459 --> 04:52:56.810
coming back before us a bunch if that's going to be an

04:52:56.810 --> 04:52:57.439
issue.

04:52:57.439 --> 04:53:02.439
And those would be my comments.

04:53:02.439 --> 04:53:06.450
I just wanted to add on the incentives that we are

04:53:06.450 --> 04:53:09.439
including in the proposed code.

04:53:09.439 --> 04:53:12.520
Under the current code, the only incentive is if you

04:53:12.520 --> 04:53:14.439
preserve beyond the minimum.

04:53:14.439 --> 04:53:18.310
So even at a one-to-one ratio, getting credit from

04:53:18.310 --> 04:53:22.970
everything you preserve, it is still more than what is

04:53:22.970 --> 04:53:25.439
under the current code.

04:53:25.439 --> 04:53:30.180
So it's not that it's devaluing the canopy or saying that

04:53:30.180 --> 04:53:35.540
it's just a one-to-one, but going from where we were at,

04:53:35.540 --> 04:53:37.439
you know, it's more.

04:53:37.439 --> 04:53:42.360
That's an improvement, an increase to incentivize

04:53:42.360 --> 04:53:44.439
preserving trees.

04:53:44.439 --> 04:53:45.439
I think that's a good point.

04:53:45.439 --> 04:53:48.750
And if it's every 10 or 11 years before this comes before

04:53:48.750 --> 04:53:51.689
us, I'd like to move the bar even farther and incentivize

04:53:51.689 --> 04:53:54.580
it even more because it may be a while before it comes back

04:53:54.580 --> 04:53:55.439
before us.

04:53:55.439 --> 04:54:02.439
So with that, I recognize Commissioner Taylor.

04:54:02.439 --> 04:54:05.439
Thank you, Chair.

04:54:05.439 --> 04:54:08.439
I don't quite understand that.

04:54:08.439 --> 04:54:11.439
So the mitigation is inch per inch?

04:54:11.439 --> 04:54:17.770
Is that what the replacement tree mitigation is, is caliper

04:54:17.770 --> 04:54:20.439
inch per caliper inch?

04:54:20.439 --> 04:54:22.439
Under the proposed?

04:54:22.439 --> 04:54:25.439
Yeah.

04:54:25.439 --> 04:54:30.099
I have to go through and actually create a calculation to

04:54:30.099 --> 04:54:33.439
get from diameter inches to a canopy.

04:54:33.439 --> 04:54:37.669
Right now, I don't have the data that I need to just have a

04:54:37.669 --> 04:54:40.900
value for what a square foot of canopy is actually worth in

04:54:40.900 --> 04:54:41.439
dense.

04:54:41.439 --> 04:54:44.439
And there are ways to get that information.

04:54:44.439 --> 04:54:48.779
Unfortunately, I don't have that data to provide that I've

04:54:48.779 --> 04:54:52.439
run that calculation using data from other cities.

04:54:52.439 --> 04:54:56.500
And, you know, it works out fine just having it as, you

04:54:56.500 --> 04:55:00.439
know, a certain amount per square foot of canopy.

04:55:00.439 --> 04:55:03.439
That's where I would eventually like to be.

04:55:03.439 --> 04:55:06.400
But right now that would be a mitigation fee per square

04:55:06.400 --> 04:55:07.439
foot of canopy.

04:55:07.439 --> 04:55:08.439
Is that what you mean?

04:55:08.439 --> 04:55:12.279
Yeah, as opposed to the, you know, right now, $125 per

04:55:12.279 --> 04:55:13.439
diameter inch.

04:55:13.439 --> 04:55:16.650
So I guess what I meant, not the each mitigation tree shall

04:55:16.650 --> 04:55:19.909
meet the most like two inch minimum caliper diameter

04:55:19.909 --> 04:55:22.439
measured six inches above grade.

04:55:22.439 --> 04:55:24.439
The replacement tree part of that.

04:55:24.439 --> 04:55:32.439
So I thought I understood it until we just talked about it.

04:55:32.439 --> 04:55:34.439
So I'm just trying to get caught up now.

04:55:34.439 --> 04:55:38.439
I get the kind of the fee if you want to pay a fee.

04:55:38.439 --> 04:55:42.790
But if you are replanting, you know, you're below that 70

04:55:42.790 --> 04:55:47.759
percent of the 30 percent existing canopy on, you know, the

04:55:47.759 --> 04:55:48.439
lot.

04:55:48.439 --> 04:55:50.439
But you're above 50 percent.

04:55:50.439 --> 04:55:52.840
And so you reap you need to cut down the stream, you're

04:55:52.840 --> 04:55:54.439
replanting something over here.

04:55:54.439 --> 04:55:56.439
You're cutting down an eight inch oak.

04:55:56.439 --> 04:55:58.439
Is that for two inch oaks?

04:55:58.439 --> 04:56:01.419
Well, what it what it amounts to is when you when you're

04:56:01.419 --> 04:56:03.439
looking at that one to four ratio.

04:56:03.439 --> 04:56:07.680
So say if the one tree you cut down was a thousand square

04:56:07.680 --> 04:56:08.439
feet.

04:56:08.439 --> 04:56:12.759
Well, you would be required to mitigate for four thousand

04:56:12.759 --> 04:56:16.439
square feet of so you have your future canopy.

04:56:16.439 --> 04:56:17.439
Right. Right.

04:56:17.439 --> 04:56:21.540
And you know, the idea behind that is, well, you know, for

04:56:21.540 --> 04:56:24.459
that one tree to mature to that one thousand square feet

04:56:24.459 --> 04:56:25.439
may take X amount of years.

04:56:25.439 --> 04:56:28.389
But if you have four trees, it's going to cut that time

04:56:28.389 --> 04:56:29.439
down by fourth.

04:56:29.439 --> 04:56:33.959
And so to get back to a replacement of what you took down

04:56:33.959 --> 04:56:38.439
is NC 60 a canopy thing or a tree health thing?

04:56:38.439 --> 04:56:42.889
That's actually standards for the American national

04:56:42.889 --> 04:56:45.439
standards for nurserymen.

04:56:45.439 --> 04:56:49.529
So there are standards for the quality of trees, the types

04:56:49.529 --> 04:56:50.439
of trees.

04:56:50.439 --> 04:56:53.439
They're all graded.

04:56:53.439 --> 04:56:57.439
Is that where the canopy per maximum canopy comes from?

04:56:57.439 --> 04:57:00.439
Or is that a separate would that be a separate table?

04:57:00.439 --> 04:57:04.450
Well, in our existing code, we have recognized values for

04:57:04.450 --> 04:57:08.970
large trees, medium trees and small trees for what the

04:57:08.970 --> 04:57:11.439
mature canopy would be.

04:57:11.439 --> 04:57:15.439
So that's that's where we get that that information from.

04:57:15.439 --> 04:57:17.740
So so in this case, like going back to the example, I'm

04:57:17.740 --> 04:57:20.509
going to cut down this eight inch oak, which has seven

04:57:20.509 --> 04:57:24.439
hundred square feet of canopy or something like that.

04:57:24.439 --> 04:57:26.439
I can and I had to mitigate four to one.

04:57:26.439 --> 04:57:27.439
So I need twenty eight hundred square feet.

04:57:27.439 --> 04:57:31.580
So I can plant two two inch chinkapin oaks, which have a

04:57:31.580 --> 04:57:35.439
two thousand square foot canopy when they grow.

04:57:35.439 --> 04:57:39.479
Is that because I'm putting in four thousand square feet of

04:57:39.479 --> 04:57:43.439
future canopy in two two inch trees to cut down one eight

04:57:43.439 --> 04:57:45.439
inch tree.

04:57:45.439 --> 04:57:47.439
Roughly, I mean, something.

04:57:47.439 --> 04:57:49.779
Yeah. I mean, depending on what the numbers actually are

04:57:49.779 --> 04:57:50.439
per species.

04:57:50.439 --> 04:57:52.439
Right. OK.

04:57:52.439 --> 04:57:55.439
Now that I understand that, that's good.

04:57:55.439 --> 04:58:02.439
I do have a few items from our work session.

04:58:02.439 --> 04:58:05.330
I just want to bring up it looks like we're probably going

04:58:05.330 --> 04:58:06.439
to postpone this.

04:58:06.439 --> 04:58:10.439
So I would like to look at an offsite mitigation option.

04:58:10.439 --> 04:58:14.259
I think that that does provide some opportunity, especially

04:58:14.259 --> 04:58:15.439
in infill lots.

04:58:15.439 --> 04:58:18.259
You've got a half acre lot and you can't remove trees very

04:58:18.259 --> 04:58:21.000
well or you want to keep or you have to remove the one big

04:58:21.000 --> 04:58:24.099
tree in the center of the lot where you need to building

04:58:24.099 --> 04:58:29.439
site to be able to mitigate that in another in town lot

04:58:29.439 --> 04:58:31.439
that will be permanently preserved.

04:58:31.439 --> 04:58:39.130
Whether that's by easement or by tree trust or other

04:58:39.130 --> 04:58:42.439
structure, something like that.

04:58:42.439 --> 04:58:45.439
I'd just like to see what options there are that way.

04:58:45.439 --> 04:58:51.349
And then I would also like to clarify the occupied single

04:58:51.349 --> 04:58:54.439
family exemption clause.

04:58:54.439 --> 04:59:01.340
I would I would prefer that to have a maximum maximum acre

04:59:01.340 --> 04:59:05.250
age size because there could be a loophole on a hundred acre

04:59:05.250 --> 04:59:08.470
site that's planned for development and it has an old farm

04:59:08.470 --> 04:59:09.439
house on it.

04:59:09.439 --> 04:59:13.299
And so I can move into that farmhouse and I can clear out a

04:59:13.299 --> 04:59:17.130
whole bunch of trees and then I can file for plotting to

04:59:17.130 --> 04:59:19.439
build a subdivision there.

04:59:19.439 --> 04:59:24.939
And I would also like to be to more expressly indicate

04:59:24.939 --> 04:59:30.750
either a rollback or a fee structure for using one of the

04:59:30.750 --> 04:59:34.439
exemptions like the ag exemption.

04:59:34.439 --> 04:59:37.990
And then immediately after or shortly after I have an

04:59:37.990 --> 04:59:41.700
exemption on my hundred acres of tree covered land and I

04:59:41.700 --> 04:59:45.470
use that exemption to cut down most of the trees and then I

04:59:45.470 --> 04:59:49.439
come in and file file a plot to build a subdivision again.

04:59:49.439 --> 04:59:52.610
If it's like a two year or five year, maybe even a great

04:59:52.610 --> 04:59:56.200
like a step down every year, you pay less of the mitigation

04:59:56.200 --> 04:59:56.439
.

04:59:56.439 --> 05:00:00.750
And after five years, you don't have to pay any mitigation

05:00:00.750 --> 05:00:03.439
for the clearing that happened.

05:00:03.439 --> 05:00:07.229
So those are one, two, three, three, I guess major points I

05:00:07.229 --> 05:00:09.439
would like to see addressed in this.

05:00:09.439 --> 05:00:12.439
We have two of those already written down to so.

05:00:12.439 --> 05:00:15.439
Thanks.

05:00:15.439 --> 05:00:18.439
Another comment.

05:00:18.439 --> 05:00:29.939
Based on what Commissioner Taylor was just talking about on

05:00:29.939 --> 05:00:33.959
the four to one. Is there a point in the existing tree

05:00:33.959 --> 05:00:34.790
canopy and the requirements there that you would get to a

05:00:34.790 --> 05:00:38.020
point where you can't replace or can't do the four to one

05:00:38.020 --> 05:00:42.439
that the actual new canopy would encompass the whole site.

05:00:42.439 --> 05:00:46.150
Is there a cap somewhere that I don't know the math, but if

05:00:46.150 --> 05:00:49.790
you've got a 60% stand and you can only take a certain

05:00:49.790 --> 05:00:53.509
percentage out and then you've got to mitigate four to one

05:00:53.509 --> 05:00:57.229
that the canopy that is actually larger than the site that

05:00:57.229 --> 05:00:58.439
you have.

05:00:58.439 --> 05:01:02.220
So there probably needs to be if that's a correct analysis

05:01:02.220 --> 05:01:05.700
of where this goes that there's a cap that you can't be

05:01:05.700 --> 05:01:09.970
required to mitigate more than 50% of the side or 75 I don

05:01:09.970 --> 05:01:13.909
't know the number, but that might be something that comes

05:01:13.909 --> 05:01:16.439
into play on the on the other side.

05:01:16.439 --> 05:01:19.439
And then also want to.

05:01:19.439 --> 05:01:21.439
If you have a comment on that.

05:01:21.439 --> 05:01:28.799
Well, just like under the current code. If you can't

05:01:28.799 --> 05:01:30.599
mitigate through replanting completely on site there's

05:01:30.599 --> 05:01:32.349
always option to do a combination of on site planting and

05:01:32.349 --> 05:01:33.439
payment into the tree fund.

05:01:33.439 --> 05:01:37.459
And that's what I was envisioning for the going forward

05:01:37.459 --> 05:01:41.759
would be the same scenario hadn't considered a maximum cap

05:01:41.759 --> 05:01:43.439
based on the site.

05:01:43.439 --> 05:01:46.479
Because you know again you know and one of the other

05:01:46.479 --> 05:01:49.740
reasons why putting that as at a one to four ratio was to

05:01:49.740 --> 05:01:53.080
you know provide some disincentive to take you know the

05:01:53.080 --> 05:01:56.500
easier route and say okay well I'll just cut this down and

05:01:56.500 --> 05:01:59.439
pay you know because it's not going to cost me that much.

05:01:59.439 --> 05:02:03.650
You know, so you have to provide some incentive I think and

05:02:03.650 --> 05:02:08.439
some disincentive to, you know, not meet that requirement.

05:02:08.439 --> 05:02:13.439
Okay. And to your point, did you bring off the off site.

05:02:13.439 --> 05:02:16.630
I think in our work session we talked about there's a

05:02:16.630 --> 05:02:19.439
roughly $3 million in in the front now.

05:02:19.439 --> 05:02:23.750
And I'm wondering how this would play out is if the city

05:02:23.750 --> 05:02:28.040
purchases a site can identify it and through our urban

05:02:28.040 --> 05:02:32.479
foresters and the expertise that we have in house to say

05:02:32.479 --> 05:02:37.209
that this 50 acre site or hundred acre site is a is a prime

05:02:37.209 --> 05:02:41.439
area for us to preserve it rather than.

05:02:41.439 --> 05:02:45.340
We have individual developers trying to pick sites that the

05:02:45.340 --> 05:02:48.919
city buys a block essentially, and then puts a value on

05:02:48.919 --> 05:02:52.639
that that then developers buy out replenish the fund back

05:02:52.639 --> 05:02:54.439
to the city and okay.

05:02:54.439 --> 05:02:59.080
We've got 50 or 100 acres that we have for sale developers

05:02:59.080 --> 05:03:03.000
buy it out money comes back in the city the city identifies

05:03:03.000 --> 05:03:06.520
that spot over there buys other blocks in it just as a

05:03:06.520 --> 05:03:10.529
perpetual circle that the city identifies prime places to

05:03:10.529 --> 05:03:12.439
preserve offers it as an opportunity for

05:03:12.439 --> 05:03:15.500
developers to buy those replace the funds so the city can

05:03:15.500 --> 05:03:18.680
pick that's another great side over there the city gets to

05:03:18.680 --> 05:03:22.020
determine it, rather than developers picking a site, and it

05:03:22.020 --> 05:03:25.069
's going to help their shelter and all over so I don't know

05:03:25.069 --> 05:03:26.439
if that's a possibility.

05:03:26.439 --> 05:03:30.279
It's been done in other places, or what hurdles may be in

05:03:30.279 --> 05:03:34.060
place that preclude us from doing that but that might be

05:03:34.060 --> 05:03:37.439
something if it's possible for us to pursue.

05:03:37.439 --> 05:03:41.229
So I don't know if you'd have any comments or feedback on

05:03:41.229 --> 05:03:44.319
that as well. Well, in the existing code there was an

05:03:44.319 --> 05:03:47.279
option for tree trust, and it was something that, you know,

05:03:47.279 --> 05:03:50.110
I don't I don't even think we've ever, you know had anyone

05:03:50.110 --> 05:03:53.439
to take advantage of it or to use it in the areas where

05:03:53.439 --> 05:03:56.880
tree trust have been used successfully or areas where you

05:03:56.880 --> 05:04:02.009
have, you know, a greater concentration of war areas that

05:04:02.009 --> 05:04:05.439
you have naturally wooded forested land.

05:04:05.439 --> 05:04:09.220
Unfortunately, being we're in this situation we don't have

05:04:09.220 --> 05:04:12.669
the benefit of having, you know, really the natural

05:04:12.669 --> 05:04:16.500
resources that will really afford us to, you know, really

05:04:16.500 --> 05:04:18.439
make that a viable option.

05:04:18.439 --> 05:04:23.819
One other thing is, you know, it's a combination to get to

05:04:23.819 --> 05:04:27.040
where we want to be, you know, part of this preserving

05:04:27.040 --> 05:04:30.439
trees and the greater part of that is replanting trees.

05:04:30.439 --> 05:04:33.319
You know, we all are emotionally attached to the trees we

05:04:33.319 --> 05:04:36.669
see what's already in the environment. But for, you know,

05:04:36.669 --> 05:04:40.139
our kids and our kids kids, we have to plant trees because

05:04:40.139 --> 05:04:43.840
eventually, you know, the trees that we're preserving now

05:04:43.840 --> 05:04:45.439
they're going to die.

05:04:45.439 --> 05:04:49.680
You know, looking long term and holistically it has to be a

05:04:49.680 --> 05:04:53.580
combination of both to really get to where we actually

05:04:53.580 --> 05:04:58.680
increase, you know, our canopy cover. If we preserved 100%

05:04:58.680 --> 05:05:02.819
of the trees that are indenting right now, we still would

05:05:02.819 --> 05:05:06.439
have, you know, no net gain and canopy cover.

05:05:06.439 --> 05:05:09.439
So I guess the answer is that can't be done.

05:05:09.439 --> 05:05:13.450
We looked at it and, you know, and I was even, you know,

05:05:13.450 --> 05:05:17.439
considering having that as an option, the offsite.

05:05:17.439 --> 05:05:20.750
But there are, you know, so many variables with tracking

05:05:20.750 --> 05:05:24.000
where trees go and making sure they're maintained if they

05:05:24.000 --> 05:05:26.439
're planted, you know, other places.

05:05:26.439 --> 05:05:30.299
Just logistically, I think it would be, you know, a

05:05:30.299 --> 05:05:33.439
difficult undertaking to accomplish.

05:05:33.439 --> 05:05:35.650
Well, I'd like to suggest that we take a look at it and see

05:05:35.650 --> 05:05:36.439
where that goes.

05:05:36.439 --> 05:05:40.319
I think, Jefferson Strange, what we'll do is we will

05:05:40.319 --> 05:05:44.400
revisit this option and try and see what we can establish

05:05:44.400 --> 05:05:47.439
as far as that's concerned.

05:05:47.439 --> 05:05:51.439
And I see we have a motion. Commissioner Rosell.

05:05:51.439 --> 05:05:57.110
Thank you, Chair. I motion to postpone agenda item DCA 1601

05:05:57.110 --> 05:06:02.970
pertaining to tree preservation and landscape requirements

05:06:02.970 --> 05:06:04.439
indefinitely.

05:06:04.439 --> 05:06:07.439
Commissioner Begg. Second.

05:06:07.439 --> 05:06:11.159
I have a first and a second. Commissioner Taylor. Thank you

05:06:11.159 --> 05:06:12.439
. Would it be possible to just put a date on it?

05:06:12.439 --> 05:06:16.110
Let's put it on the agenda for 45 days and we can postpone

05:06:16.110 --> 05:06:18.439
it again if we need another 45.

05:06:18.439 --> 05:06:22.099
But when we table it indefinitely with no trigger for it to

05:06:22.099 --> 05:06:26.139
come back before us, it'll be a year before we see it again

05:06:26.139 --> 05:06:26.439
.

05:06:26.439 --> 05:06:28.729
Yeah, I totally agree. I think staff was suggesting

05:06:28.729 --> 05:06:31.439
otherwise just not knowing what the workshops would be.

05:06:31.439 --> 05:06:35.229
I was going off that direction. Right. Well, would it be

05:06:35.229 --> 05:06:37.439
possible to just put it up for 45 days and then you can say

05:06:37.439 --> 05:06:40.439
we're still doing workshops, come back in 30 or?

05:06:40.439 --> 05:06:43.560
Ideally, we would like this to come back within 30 days,

05:06:43.560 --> 05:06:45.439
but we know we have to coordinate.

05:06:45.439 --> 05:06:48.950
So the only reason we said indefinitely is not because, you

05:06:48.950 --> 05:06:52.439
know, we don't want it to take longer than 60 days.

05:06:52.439 --> 05:06:55.580
We have our own milestones and our project plan that we do

05:06:55.580 --> 05:06:56.439
have to hit.

05:06:56.439 --> 05:06:58.919
As a result of this, we will obviously have to miss our

05:06:58.919 --> 05:07:01.439
city council meeting that this was scheduled for.

05:07:01.439 --> 05:07:07.439
So why don't we pick the 45 days? That's fine by us.

05:07:07.439 --> 05:07:10.939
But anticipate that it would be a postponement again and it

05:07:10.939 --> 05:07:14.439
would be an item that would be reflected on the agenda.

05:07:14.439 --> 05:07:18.919
So it just we want to make sure that when we come back to

05:07:18.919 --> 05:07:21.439
you the next time that we are

05:07:21.439 --> 05:07:23.840
very well prepared and have comment from the CDA and

05:07:23.840 --> 05:07:26.439
include their comments within the draft ordinance.

05:07:26.439 --> 05:07:29.159
So we do need some lead time for that to be able to

05:07:29.159 --> 05:07:33.439
coordinate with their subcommittee.

05:07:33.439 --> 05:07:35.439
But it is the wish of the commission should they choose.

05:07:35.439 --> 05:07:40.439
Then can I postpone it to was the May 11th meeting?

05:07:40.439 --> 05:07:44.119
I'd like to throw out before we put a very short time frame

05:07:44.119 --> 05:07:44.439
.

05:07:44.439 --> 05:07:48.250
These gentlemen have been here now for almost three and a

05:07:48.250 --> 05:07:51.439
half hours to give their opportunity to speak.

05:07:51.439 --> 05:07:54.409
And I think in respect for their time, I think instead of

05:07:54.409 --> 05:07:58.930
having this again, 45 days, they're back here to make their

05:07:58.930 --> 05:08:00.439
comments and we're not ready.

05:08:00.439 --> 05:08:04.189
I think it would be more appropriate for their time and

05:08:04.189 --> 05:08:05.439
staff's time.

05:08:05.439 --> 05:08:08.830
If it's 90 days, it can come back before then. If it's

05:08:08.830 --> 05:08:11.279
ready and it's worked out, I'm sure it can come back before

05:08:11.279 --> 05:08:11.439
.

05:08:11.439 --> 05:08:15.790
I just see it's reposted and people are sitting out here

05:08:15.790 --> 05:08:19.439
staff time just so we can postpone it again.

05:08:19.439 --> 05:08:24.069
So I don't know if 90 days would be appropriate that this

05:08:24.069 --> 05:08:27.439
gets worked out and it can come back sooner.

05:08:27.439 --> 05:08:30.779
And if not, gentlemen, in 90 days, you can wait a few more

05:08:30.779 --> 05:08:32.439
hours and talk to us again.

05:08:32.439 --> 05:08:37.439
So would that be a reasonable time?

05:08:37.439 --> 05:08:38.439
Yes.

05:08:38.439 --> 05:08:42.290
So I'd like to offer a friendly amendment that we would

05:08:42.290 --> 05:08:46.439
postpone it for 90 days and then have it come back.

05:08:46.439 --> 05:08:51.259
That's fine with me. I'll amend my motion to a 90 day postp

05:08:51.259 --> 05:08:52.439
onement.

05:08:52.439 --> 05:08:53.439
I'll second that.

05:08:53.439 --> 05:08:59.439
Okay. I have a first and a second to postpone for 90 days.

05:08:59.439 --> 05:09:03.310
And I don't know if the board needs to be cleared or if

05:09:03.310 --> 05:09:07.619
Commissioner Taylor would like to be recognized to speak

05:09:07.619 --> 05:09:08.439
again.

05:09:08.439 --> 05:09:15.439
I still show Commissioner Taylor's request to speak.

05:09:15.439 --> 05:09:20.439
Okay. We have a first and a second to postpone for 90 days.

05:09:20.439 --> 05:09:27.290
Is there any further discussion or comment before I call

05:09:27.290 --> 05:09:30.439
for a vote on the board?

05:09:30.439 --> 05:09:39.400
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board with the

05:09:39.400 --> 05:09:42.439
motion at hand.

05:09:42.439 --> 05:09:51.439
Motion carries 7-0.

05:09:51.439 --> 05:10:03.439
That takes us to our project matrix and concluding items.

05:10:03.439 --> 05:10:04.439
Commissioner Beck.

05:10:04.439 --> 05:10:09.509
I have a concluding item. We were confronted once again

05:10:09.509 --> 05:10:13.439
with an issue that is a little troubling.

05:10:13.439 --> 05:10:16.439
And I'm not pointing a finger at anybody. I think it's a

05:10:16.439 --> 05:10:16.439
process.

05:10:16.439 --> 05:10:19.439
Can you speak into the mic, Rabbi Martin?

05:10:19.439 --> 05:10:22.270
We have been confronted once again with an issue that's a

05:10:22.270 --> 05:10:23.439
little troubling.

05:10:23.439 --> 05:10:26.159
And I don't want to point a finger at anybody. I think it's

05:10:26.159 --> 05:10:27.439
a process problem.

05:10:27.439 --> 05:10:36.680
But once again, once again, people within 200 feet of an

05:10:36.680 --> 05:10:40.779
area on an issue that we're going to talk about are saying

05:10:40.779 --> 05:10:42.439
they just simply aren't getting notification.

05:10:42.439 --> 05:10:46.709
Tonight we had 55 mailers go out and only two people

05:10:46.709 --> 05:10:48.439
responded to that.

05:10:48.439 --> 05:10:51.590
And in an area where you would have expected a lot more

05:10:51.590 --> 05:10:52.439
response.

05:10:52.439 --> 05:10:55.439
So I don't know. I don't know what the problem is.

05:10:55.439 --> 05:10:59.439
This is repeated too often. I'm concerned about it.

05:10:59.439 --> 05:11:01.919
And Commissioner Hudson and I, you know, we're talking

05:11:01.919 --> 05:11:02.439
about it.

05:11:02.439 --> 05:11:06.439
It's just an issue that seems like we need to address.

05:11:06.439 --> 05:11:08.439
Isn't it a certified letter?

05:11:08.439 --> 05:11:09.439
Yes.

05:11:09.439 --> 05:11:12.869
They're signed for. I mean, someone signed for it, I

05:11:12.869 --> 05:11:13.439
imagine.

05:11:13.439 --> 05:11:17.450
And that's what I think it needs. I think it's more just

05:11:17.450 --> 05:11:21.529
what do -- if a resident, if a homeowner comes and says, I

05:11:21.529 --> 05:11:23.439
didn't receive notice,

05:11:23.439 --> 05:11:28.459
where can I go to get that tracking number to get provided

05:11:28.459 --> 05:11:29.439
to them?

05:11:29.439 --> 05:11:33.439
Is that maintained in a spreadsheet somewhere?

05:11:33.439 --> 05:11:37.110
We follow, like I said, state requirement, Texas local

05:11:37.110 --> 05:11:38.439
government code.

05:11:38.439 --> 05:11:44.040
We send notifications, certified mail within 200 feet of

05:11:44.040 --> 05:11:45.439
the request.

05:11:45.439 --> 05:11:49.790
The list, the property owner list is derived or exported

05:11:49.790 --> 05:11:53.439
from DCAT, Tenant County Appraisal District.

05:11:53.439 --> 05:11:56.770
Because that's the only avenue we have to search the

05:11:56.770 --> 05:11:58.439
property ownership.

05:11:58.439 --> 05:12:01.439
We send out certified mail.

05:12:01.439 --> 05:12:06.009
We have heard even when we've done other mailings that we

05:12:06.009 --> 05:12:07.439
get them back.

05:12:07.439 --> 05:12:08.439
They come back to us.

05:12:08.439 --> 05:12:11.880
So if we don't have someone who's very interested in what's

05:12:11.880 --> 05:12:14.819
going on and doesn't check the web -- and checks the

05:12:14.819 --> 05:12:16.439
website or what have you,

05:12:16.439 --> 05:12:20.840
and wonders why they didn't receive a notification, then we

05:12:20.840 --> 05:12:23.439
can obviously resend them a notification.

05:12:23.439 --> 05:12:25.919
But at this point, we're following every avenue, every

05:12:25.919 --> 05:12:28.450
parameter that we have and follow a certain, you know,

05:12:28.450 --> 05:12:30.439
notification process.

05:12:30.439 --> 05:12:36.439
But is there -- is someone physically walking up there?

05:12:36.439 --> 05:12:38.439
There's a tracking number issue.

05:12:38.439 --> 05:12:40.919
If you pay with a credit card, let's say, they're going to

05:12:40.919 --> 05:12:43.439
give you a tracking number at the bottom of the receipt.

05:12:43.439 --> 05:12:45.990
If you're doing certified, the green card, they're giving

05:12:45.990 --> 05:12:51.439
you the -- one, two, three, four, 12 digit.

05:12:51.439 --> 05:12:52.439
Where is that?

05:12:52.439 --> 05:12:54.439
It's not maintained, I bet.

05:12:54.439 --> 05:12:56.439
So we use a service.

05:12:56.439 --> 05:12:57.439
We use click to mail.

05:12:57.439 --> 05:13:03.439
We send them our property address list.

05:13:03.439 --> 05:13:09.439
And from there, they do the mail service for us.

05:13:09.439 --> 05:13:10.439
Right.

05:13:10.439 --> 05:13:13.439
So anything that's returned, it comes back to us.

05:13:13.439 --> 05:13:15.439
And we do receive several returns.

05:13:15.439 --> 05:13:17.919
Or something is -- property owner receives their

05:13:17.919 --> 05:13:20.439
notification and doesn't do anything about it.

05:13:20.439 --> 05:13:24.139
So we are following all the parameters that are in our code

05:13:24.139 --> 05:13:25.439
and ordinances.

05:13:25.439 --> 05:13:26.439
Agreed.

05:13:26.439 --> 05:13:28.439
How can I see that?

05:13:28.439 --> 05:13:29.439
See what?

05:13:29.439 --> 05:13:34.439
I'd like to interject.

05:13:34.439 --> 05:13:37.439
This is off of our agenda.

05:13:37.439 --> 05:13:41.439
And we can ask for things to be put on agenda.

05:13:41.439 --> 05:13:44.450
But we're engaging in discussion of an item that hasn't

05:13:44.450 --> 05:13:46.439
been posted for public hearing.

05:13:46.439 --> 05:13:49.439
And this item has come up several times on this commission.

05:13:49.439 --> 05:13:51.439
And there have been a number of questions.

05:13:51.439 --> 05:13:54.180
And what I'd like to ask is, Chair, if anyone has a

05:13:54.180 --> 05:13:58.020
question or concern about how this is, I'd ask that please

05:13:58.020 --> 05:13:58.439
take the time.

05:13:58.439 --> 05:13:59.439
Get with staff.

05:13:59.439 --> 05:14:03.110
And if for some reason that item can't be addressed to your

05:14:03.110 --> 05:14:06.470
satisfaction one on one with them, then I'd ask if you'd

05:14:06.470 --> 05:14:10.439
like to tonight, let's put it on the matrix.

05:14:10.439 --> 05:14:13.709
And if it can't be handled one on one, then it's on the

05:14:13.709 --> 05:14:14.439
matrix.

05:14:14.439 --> 05:14:17.500
And then it can be brought up before us publicly to be

05:14:17.500 --> 05:14:20.439
discussed in work session or any other item.

05:14:20.439 --> 05:14:22.439
The public has received notice of it.

05:14:22.439 --> 05:14:25.520
I think that's a more appropriate way for us to hash this

05:14:25.520 --> 05:14:28.779
out to everybody's satisfaction that the system that we

05:14:28.779 --> 05:14:32.639
have in place or if it needs to be changed or amended, that

05:14:32.639 --> 05:14:33.439
gets addressed.

05:14:33.439 --> 05:14:38.569
And I think we need to follow legal advice on that at this

05:14:38.569 --> 05:14:39.439
time.

05:14:39.439 --> 05:14:48.409
Do we have another item that anyone would like to place on

05:14:48.409 --> 05:14:54.439
our matrix or future agenda items?

05:14:54.439 --> 05:14:55.439
Seeing none, it's late.

05:14:55.439 --> 05:14:57.439
It's 10 16.

05:14:57.439 --> 05:14:59.439
I'm going to make it the last minute.

05:14:59.439 --> 05:15:00.439
10 16.

05:15:00.439 --> 05:15:02.439
And I will close our meeting tonight.