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Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton Planning and

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Zoning Commission

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work session. Time is 432. Our meeting has been duly posted

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and we do have a

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quorum present. I call our meeting to order and our first

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item in our work

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session will be to receive reports on clarification of

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agenda items. I'll

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turn over to Manal for presentation of those items. Thank

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you Chairperson

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Strange. Do we have any questions regarding the plats

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tonight? If so we can

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do quick presentations on those else we'll jump straight

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into the regular

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meeting items. Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you Chair. I

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just had a quick question

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about the Buc-E's plat. I'm wondering how how voting on

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that might affect our

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discussion later for the ESA and vice versa. A couple of

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things that I... Come on

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up Julia. One item that I do want to mention that there is

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a most recent

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revised plat for Buc-E's on your table and that was just to

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clean up of some

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language as it relates to easements. With respect to the

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plat, the plat is in order

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as submitted. All the technical requirements have been

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addressed so there

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should not be any conflict between the two. Okay.

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Julie why don't we just run through the plat really quickly

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. Okay to address the

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the ADP that's before you tonight. There is in that in the

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plat that was

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delivered to your tables there is a note, note 13, that

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does address that approval

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of the alternative ESA that it is that approval from City

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Council is required

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for this plat. So that gives that little caveat in that

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note.

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Seeing none other we can dive straight into the other item.

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The first item for

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discussion is the alternative ESA for Buc-E's. Julie why

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don't we come into that.

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All right. So right now I'm presenting ADP 16-2 to you, the

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Buc-E's Travel

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Center Alternative Development Plan. The request before you

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is to consider an

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alternative environmentally sensitive area plan to allow

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the proposed

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commercial development to encroach into an existing

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environmentally sensitive

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area. Just to give you some context of where the property

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is, it is located

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along I-35. There's frontage along I-35. It's between the L

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illian Miller and Wind

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River. The zoning of the property is Regional Center

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Commercial Downtown. You

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can see here it here in the purple. Just to let you know

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all the uses that are

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proposed with the Buc-E's development are permitted within

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the the existing

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zoning. And then just to give you a little a little

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overview of what the

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environmental conditions are on the site. You can see the

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the area here in red.

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That was that environmentally sensitive area designation

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was removed during a an

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ESA assessment in 2008. So although it's it's shown on the

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map that is no longer

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no longer has the ESA designation. The the portion of the

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property that we're

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really looking at today is up here. It is the existing rip

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arian buffer and it goes

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it goes northward from the pond toward I-35. And just to

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walk you through the

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concept plan that Buc-E's has. Now this is something that

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was looked at last fall

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when the City Council looked at the economic development

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package for the

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Buc-E's. And so this is just conceptual. It is not a site

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plan that's been

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submitted with a building permit. But it does show you

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approximately what they're

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proposing. So here's I-35 along the north side or along the

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top part of this

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aerial photograph. This is Brinker. The proposed Buc-E's

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would have a

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connection going underneath I-35 and that would become Buc-

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E's Boulevard.

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I believe is what the name is. So that would that would

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become Buc-E's Boulevard. And

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then if this is if the ADP goes forward and it goes forward

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in this manner then

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there would be a road along this this area of the site. It

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would provide

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access to these out parcels. It would what it would do is

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it would sort of

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limit access to the site to these one two three areas and

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allow access for the

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parcels from an internal road system. This and then the

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anchor store would be

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would be in this area. Julie can I ask a question? Sure. If

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it's going to be

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internal will those parcels three four five six seven eight

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did not have their

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own egress off of the service road? No sir not not

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according to the plat that

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was before you tonight and and then the concept plan that's

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been

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submitted by Buc-E's. That would be access would be from

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this internal road

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system. And to take that one step further if for discussion

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purposes this

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roadway is not approved those parcels then do have to have

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access off of 35

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then. They would have to have access in some manner. Okay

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so that's kind of the

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trade-off is they either have the back entrance way or we

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end up with five or

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six more curb cuts on the service road. Potentially.

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Question. Commissioner Rossell.

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Thank you. To that point couldn't they still have Buc-E's

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Boulevard tee off and

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still right there left and right? So it doesn't necessarily

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have to go back to

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the service road right? They could still potentially come

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in to Buc-E's Boulevard

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and then still come in from the back way or is it if this

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doesn't get approved

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that the conclusion would be access road access? Well I

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think I understand your

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thought to sort of stop this this road right in this area.

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There is a proposed

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lot right here and so the intent would be to provide access

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to all of those

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lots from this internal drive aisle. The applicant is here

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and I'm sure tonight

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he can speak to what their concept is. But in drilling down

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a little

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further at what the what the question before you tonight is

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. This so here if

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you recall that that riparian buffer that goes north from

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the pond here it is

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in red and then this white hatch mark is the part of the

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property we're really

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talking about tonight. This is a riparian buffer that a

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proposed road would would

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impact. As part of that disturbance of that of that ESA it

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would potentially

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remove vegetation for the crossing of vehicles. Water and

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sewer would then would

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then be installed in this area. Due to this it would remove

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approximately 13,134

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square feet of riparian habitat and within that it would

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remove 24 trees.

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Commissioner Beck. Okay so the 13,000 plus square feet

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entails the road coming off

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of the service road and all the way across the riparian

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buffer. It's really

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it's really in this part because these these two elements

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the riparian

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buffer and the road converge in in this spot right here. So

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this is really the

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part we're talking about. The other parts of the riparian

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buffer per the code

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could not be impacted without approval by City Council

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through the public

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hearing process and we go before you as well. So we're

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really talking about

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the limits of this of this area right here and I think we

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'll look Debra is

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going to show it to you a little more closely when we look

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at the ESA

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mitigation plan. So but this is just sort of an overview of

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how it fits into their

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their proposed concept. Did that answer your question? Get

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close? Okay she's the

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technical expert. So so within that it would remove 24

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existing trees. Once

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again just this is also reflected on the on the plat in

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front of you. Here's where

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we're showing that area as well. So now I'm going to turn

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the the presentation

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over to Debra. She's our technical expert on on the

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environmental matters and so

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she's going to explain further.

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Good evening Commissioners. My name is Debra Vieira. I'm

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with the environmental

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services and sustainability. Some of you have seen me

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before about talking and

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training you about environmental sensitive areas. It's my

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understanding

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that some of you are new to the board so bear with me. We

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will do a quick

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introduction about what ESAs are, riparian buffers and we

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'll take it from

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there. So pretty much riparian buffer is one of the four

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type of environmental

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sensitive areas that the city provide protection to. They

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are we have two types.

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We either have the one that the total width is 100 from

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back to back or the

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200. Those are areas that of sort of vegetation that runs

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creeks alone and

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they provide a different type of services from a habitat

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conservation to

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water quality to floodplain management and so on. The width

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of those protected

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areas will depend on how much drainage area goes through

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them. The more area, the

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more drainage area goes through them, the wider the

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protection is. The smaller area

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that they have, the narrower the protection is. Most of the

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time riparian

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buffers are inside floodplains but not every single case.

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In this particular

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case, in both cases, one of those exceptions where we have

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a riparian

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buffer without having a or being nested inside a floodplain

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. Yes sir. You're

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saying it's not inside a floodplain. Commissioner Detovit,

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sorry. Yes correct. We don't have a

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hundred-year floodplain designation for this property. So

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you're going to explain

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to us later why we even have a riparian buffer there? Yes,

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riparian

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buffer they exist. First, not all the streams have

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designated floodplains by

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FEMA. Our floodplain ESA is defined by the 100-year flood

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plain by FEMA.

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Those streams that doesn't have floodplain designated by

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FEMA, they will

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not have a floodplain ESA designation associated with it.

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However, the

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streams are there, the riparian habitats are there, and

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that's why protections are

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given even though they might not be inside floodplain. We

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applied the

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protection of riparian buffers to any parcels within the

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city limits. So what

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do we get out of riparian buffers? They definitely improve

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the water quality

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because they are the last barrier to catch sediments pollut

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ants and nutrients.

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They provide stream bank stability because all that

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vegetation what is

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doing is holding the sediments in place. Okay, so otherwise

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we will have a very

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eroded channels and when a channel erodes all that sediment

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being end up at Lake

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Louisville. And definitely they provide a habitat and

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refuge for wildlife. It is

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known for those riparian buffers to be kind of the pathway

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for wildlife to

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travel from point A to point B. Those serious images pretty

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much shows how a

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riparian buffer will look when you are actually inside of

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it and the bottom

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picture will show you how they look from a aerial

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photograph.

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So when we have environmental sensitive areas, the

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applicants have the the

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option of assessing them or requesting staff to assess them

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. How the ESA map

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was originally created? It is a computer model that we use

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by

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incorporating information from different sources. Wetland,

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00:12:52,309 --> 00:12:53,759
stream, floodplain,

269
00:12:53,759 --> 00:12:58,659
vegetation cover, topography and so on. So when we put all

270
00:12:58,659 --> 00:12:59,879
that layers of

271
00:12:59,879 --> 00:13:02,750
information together into the computer using geographic

272
00:13:02,750 --> 00:13:04,240
information system and

273
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,879
we told them the program run this based on this parameters,

274
00:13:08,879 --> 00:13:10,840
then a map is created.

275
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,509
Okay, it is because it's based on information that have

276
00:13:14,509 --> 00:13:15,120
been obtained from

277
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:19,200
other sources. It's not 100% accurate but it's a very close

278
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:20,559
approximation of what

279
00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:27,590
is out there. In this case like what Julie showed,

280
00:13:27,590 --> 00:13:28,840
originally there was a

281
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,509
riparian buffer around the pond but when fill assessment

282
00:13:32,509 --> 00:13:34,360
was done on the property, it

283
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,360
was found that those conditions that needs to be there to

284
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,500
actually have a riparian buffer were not. So that's why in

285
00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:43,159
those instances fill

286
00:13:43,159 --> 00:13:46,539
assessment allows staff to remove those ESA designation

287
00:13:46,539 --> 00:13:48,240
from it and the property

288
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,669
owners are no longer required to meet those conditions for

289
00:13:51,669 --> 00:13:52,720
the protection of

290
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:59,080
environmental sensitive area. In 2008, the riparian buffer

291
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:00,320
was assessed by a

292
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:06,080
third-party consultant. It was found to be of good quality.

293
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,120
When we go to the

294
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,519
field, somebody goes to the field, they have to look for

295
00:14:10,519 --> 00:14:11,840
the presence of certain

296
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,629
conditions to determine that the habitat is there. Mainly

297
00:14:14,629 --> 00:14:16,080
we look for hydrology,

298
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,970
we look for vegetation indicating that there is a water

299
00:14:19,970 --> 00:14:21,480
related or riparian

300
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,039
buffer habitat and we look for soil characteristic that

301
00:14:25,039 --> 00:14:26,200
tell us that it is

302
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,919
true. There's one there. When we confirm the existence,

303
00:14:29,919 --> 00:14:31,440
then the next step is

304
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:36,460
scoring the quality of the of the habitat and we have four

305
00:14:36,460 --> 00:14:37,480
classifications

306
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:42,159
that range from poor to excellent. In this particular case,

307
00:14:42,159 --> 00:14:43,159
this habitat was

308
00:14:43,159 --> 00:14:47,129
rated as a good. Even though the assessment was done in

309
00:14:47,129 --> 00:14:48,600
2008, the

310
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,909
conditions have not changed and I'm going to show you a

311
00:14:52,909 --> 00:14:54,840
chronology of aerial

312
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,690
photographs showing that the riparian buffer have been

313
00:14:57,690 --> 00:14:59,440
there. The riparian

314
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:05,159
buffer fill assessment was done in summer of 2008. We have

315
00:15:05,159 --> 00:15:08,679
2009 at the top, 2011,

316
00:15:08,679 --> 00:15:15,440
2013 and 2015 showing that nothing either within the stream

317
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:16,279
buffer or in

318
00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:19,470
the vicinity of the stream buffer have changed. So we

319
00:15:19,470 --> 00:15:23,080
maintain the position that

320
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,759
the stream buffer still they are having the same quality.

321
00:15:25,759 --> 00:15:27,200
Commissioner Beck. Thank

322
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,480
you Chair. To allay some concerns that I had and you got me

323
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,559
through that earlier, but

324
00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:37,500
one of our people have written a letter about the fact that

325
00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:39,240
it's a good quality

326
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,679
and you're saying it's probably not any better than that.

327
00:15:41,679 --> 00:15:43,159
Does this make any

328
00:15:43,159 --> 00:15:45,759
difference one way or the other? Whether it's poor or

329
00:15:45,759 --> 00:15:48,659
excellent. Actually the ESA

330
00:15:48,659 --> 00:15:51,629
regulations requires mitigation disregard what quality of

331
00:15:51,629 --> 00:15:52,200
the stream

332
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,149
buffer is. If the stream buffer is there, you must provide

333
00:15:55,149 --> 00:15:56,080
some sort of mitigation

334
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,230
if you are applying to impact. So let's apply the scenario

335
00:15:59,230 --> 00:16:00,279
that the riparian

336
00:16:00,279 --> 00:16:04,399
buffer have been impacted since 2008. And let's play the

337
00:16:04,399 --> 00:16:06,000
scenario that now we go

338
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,769
and we rate it that is as poor quality, the applicant will

339
00:16:09,769 --> 00:16:10,960
still be subject to

340
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,830
go through the alternative ESA plan and provide mitigation

341
00:16:13,830 --> 00:16:15,120
from it. So the end

342
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,960
result is doesn't matter what quality is, as long as it is,

343
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:20,080
mitigation will be

344
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:27,500
required. So we went to the site and we took pictures of it

345
00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:28,679
. At the first picture

346
00:16:28,679 --> 00:16:31,960
you will see when you are actually approaching into the rip

347
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:33,320
arian buffer. The

348
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:38,720
middle picture is actually looking downstream of the creek

349
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:39,840
and the

350
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:46,279
last picture is actually looking upstream of the creek. So

351
00:16:46,279 --> 00:16:47,159
we have

352
00:16:47,159 --> 00:16:51,000
confirmed that the riparian buffer is still there with a

353
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,399
visual inspection.

354
00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:58,159
Also through the tree survey that the applicant did for the

355
00:16:58,159 --> 00:16:59,320
site, the tree

356
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,629
show is still showing heavily vegetated. So we have

357
00:17:02,629 --> 00:17:04,440
confirmed this information

358
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,160
from it using different sources. Yes. Commissioner Rossell.

359
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:09,920
Thank you. Can you

360
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:13,660
where does this creek originate? Okay well where's it

361
00:17:13,660 --> 00:17:14,400
coming from? I'm looking

362
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,799
at an aerial map and it's either the Goodwill store or the

363
00:17:17,799 --> 00:17:18,799
highway. I'm not

364
00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:24,279
sure how the creek works. It starts right here. And it's

365
00:17:24,279 --> 00:17:25,680
just runoff rainwater

366
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:31,849
that's forming it? Well it is. The other, this area right

367
00:17:31,849 --> 00:17:34,799
here where

368
00:17:34,799 --> 00:17:40,599
Hobby Lobby is, kind of a mount, it is an outcrop area and

369
00:17:40,599 --> 00:17:44,000
there is some spring

370
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:49,849
coming down from that hill. So it could be a combination of

371
00:17:49,849 --> 00:17:51,680
sources of water. For

372
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,349
example if you go to a Phoenix parking lot, it's always wet

373
00:17:55,349 --> 00:17:56,599
and they have been

374
00:17:56,599 --> 00:17:59,900
trying to fix it. Well there's no way to fix it because it

375
00:17:59,900 --> 00:18:01,000
's just a spring that

376
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:05,450
comes from that outcrop that actually drains out. So that

377
00:18:05,450 --> 00:18:06,640
area probably is a

378
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:14,279
combination of a rain surface and spring. Thank you.

379
00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:21,319
So Commissioner Dedowitz. Follow-up, thank you. If it's a

380
00:18:21,319 --> 00:18:22,480
spring is that is

381
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:27,920
what feeding that pond? How is that pond filled? Right now

382
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,720
I have a picture of

383
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,519
1984 that I was able to locate on and that's the earliest

384
00:18:34,519 --> 00:18:35,400
picture, aerial

385
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,910
photograph that I have of the site. And that pond was there

386
00:18:38,910 --> 00:18:42,720
in 1984. Okay so I

387
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:47,950
don't know if they supplement the pond with water. It could

388
00:18:47,950 --> 00:18:49,240
be supplemented. I

389
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:55,039
don't know if they have a water well. That information I

390
00:18:55,039 --> 00:18:55,759
don't have how

391
00:18:55,759 --> 00:19:04,250
that pond is supplemented. Because without let's say during

392
00:19:04,250 --> 00:19:07,079
a drought time

393
00:19:07,079 --> 00:19:10,250
evaporation would cause the water level to actually

394
00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:11,799
decrease. So they could

395
00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:16,400
either be fed by a water well, it could be fed by spring,

396
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:17,519
or it could be

397
00:19:17,519 --> 00:19:22,000
supplemented by them bringing water. During our drought

398
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,440
period a couple years

399
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,549
back, do we have pictures of that pond being lower or is it

400
00:19:26,549 --> 00:19:30,960
the same level? Well actually

401
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:37,599
even in 2000 in 2007 we have a major rain event that

402
00:19:37,599 --> 00:19:39,039
actually was more than a

403
00:19:39,039 --> 00:19:44,799
hundred year rain event for the city. So this is two years

404
00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:48,079
after and pretty much

405
00:19:48,079 --> 00:19:56,680
the band was still looking the same. 2011 is hard to tell.

406
00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:01,079
Which year? 2013-2014. Yeah that's what I thought. And 2013

407
00:20:01,079 --> 00:20:02,119
is pretty much there.

408
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,119
Yeah.

409
00:20:10,519 --> 00:20:16,880
So the applicant have used the approach of proposed

410
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,200
mitigation that deals in

411
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,690
two ways. They will provide a green solution and a gray

412
00:20:23,690 --> 00:20:25,079
solution. We're going

413
00:20:25,079 --> 00:20:29,119
to discuss the green solution first. The green solution

414
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:30,319
will be by actually

415
00:20:30,319 --> 00:20:35,450
mitigating by providing new trees to the site, plant new

416
00:20:35,450 --> 00:20:37,640
trees, to actually set

417
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,730
aside an area containing 10 existing trees and set them

418
00:20:41,730 --> 00:20:42,960
aside in perpetuity

419
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,799
to mitigate for the habitat that there will be otherwise

420
00:20:45,799 --> 00:20:47,279
impact. Just keep in

421
00:20:47,279 --> 00:20:51,150
mind that the habitat that we are impacting is water

422
00:20:51,150 --> 00:20:52,200
related or water

423
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,519
driven, okay? And the habitat that they are offering for

424
00:20:56,519 --> 00:20:58,319
mitigation is upland,

425
00:20:58,319 --> 00:21:03,089
which means that it stays dry. They are not apples to

426
00:21:03,089 --> 00:21:04,920
apples, however we

427
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:09,079
have tried to find a common currency between the two

428
00:21:09,079 --> 00:21:10,799
habitats and the way

429
00:21:10,799 --> 00:21:14,230
that we do it is based on trees. There are trees inside the

430
00:21:14,230 --> 00:21:15,519
stream buffer, there

431
00:21:15,519 --> 00:21:18,319
are trees in the mitigation area that they are proposing.

432
00:21:18,319 --> 00:21:20,160
So pretty much from

433
00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,470
my area standpoint there will be removing a little bit over

434
00:21:23,470 --> 00:21:24,640
13,000 square

435
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,380
feet. That very similar area will be set aside for

436
00:21:28,380 --> 00:21:30,240
mitigation and I will show you

437
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,839
where that mitigation area is going to be on the next slide

438
00:21:34,839 --> 00:21:36,480
. Within the

439
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,960
disturbance area they will be removing 24 trees and they

440
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,160
are proposing 18 total

441
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:47,680
as a mitigation. 10 that currently exist on those on the

442
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:49,559
mitigation area plus 8

443
00:21:49,559 --> 00:21:56,579
new trees. Caliper inches, they will be removing a total of

444
00:21:56,579 --> 00:21:57,920
311 caliper

445
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:04,000
inches. They will be actually submitting or providing 196

446
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,000
at planting and I

447
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,660
wanted to make a distinction here. When they are, when they

448
00:22:09,660 --> 00:22:11,519
plant the trees you

449
00:22:11,519 --> 00:22:16,039
usually plant a small trees because they that improve the

450
00:22:16,039 --> 00:22:18,000
chances for the tree to

451
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,720
adapt and to actually to thrive. So even though those

452
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,799
inches might not look equal

453
00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:28,859
eventually those trees will grow and eventually those

454
00:22:28,859 --> 00:22:30,279
inches will increase and

455
00:22:30,279 --> 00:22:35,400
the total canopy that we will have is actually be greater

456
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:35,720
than

457
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,519
what they will be removing. For example the tree canopy

458
00:22:39,519 --> 00:22:40,519
that they will be

459
00:22:40,519 --> 00:22:43,710
removing is a little bit over 10,000 and you will tell me

460
00:22:43,710 --> 00:22:45,720
Debra the sound kind of

461
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,670
odd because you are removing 311 trees and your canopy is

462
00:22:49,670 --> 00:22:50,920
only 10,000 square

463
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,279
feet is in the way that the trees are in the riparian

464
00:22:54,279 --> 00:22:55,880
buffer is very heavily

465
00:22:55,880 --> 00:23:00,359
dense the canopy is overlapping so therefore you are not

466
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:01,319
getting the benefit

467
00:23:01,319 --> 00:23:06,470
of the full canopy if they were planting in a very space

468
00:23:06,470 --> 00:23:08,759
manner. So just keep in

469
00:23:08,759 --> 00:23:13,269
mind but when the tree canopy, when the mitigation of the

470
00:23:13,269 --> 00:23:14,880
tree canopy matures we

471
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,140
should have double the amount of the tree canopy that will

472
00:23:18,140 --> 00:23:19,000
otherwise be

473
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,920
removed. Any questions? Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you

474
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,319
chair. So I was looking

475
00:23:25,319 --> 00:23:28,630
and I'm gonna talk about this more when we I guess when we

476
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:29,519
talk about our

477
00:23:29,519 --> 00:23:32,230
changing the tree ordinance because I don't really like

478
00:23:32,230 --> 00:23:33,359
that word mitigation

479
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,769
when we're looking at both mitigation and preservation

480
00:23:36,769 --> 00:23:37,839
right so they're

481
00:23:37,839 --> 00:23:40,769
removing 24 trees and then we have mitigation 18 we think

482
00:23:40,769 --> 00:23:41,599
well that's only

483
00:23:41,599 --> 00:23:44,519
only six trees but really when you look at it it's

484
00:23:44,519 --> 00:23:45,799
significantly more because

485
00:23:45,799 --> 00:23:48,519
they're only planting eight like those ten trees that they

486
00:23:48,519 --> 00:23:49,519
're not cutting down

487
00:23:49,519 --> 00:23:52,920
are already there like they're just promising not to

488
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:54,559
disturb them and so I

489
00:23:54,559 --> 00:23:57,519
guess I don't really like that language when you when you

490
00:23:57,519 --> 00:23:58,680
really look at it you

491
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:04,160
really are losing 180 caliber inches you know they're just

492
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,000
promising not to is

493
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,829
this making sense I'm so sorry it's been a very long day

494
00:24:10,829 --> 00:24:12,119
with my children but I

495
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,200
guess my my point is that I when you look at the numbers it

496
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:16,200
really doesn't

497
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,589
seem less like a significant give from the applicant when

498
00:24:19,589 --> 00:24:21,079
they're disturbing a

499
00:24:21,079 --> 00:24:24,250
wetland habitat and then promising not to cut down trees in

500
00:24:24,250 --> 00:24:25,400
a dry land habitat

501
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,069
that's my concern the mitigation that they are proposing if

502
00:24:29,069 --> 00:24:30,319
above and beyond

503
00:24:30,319 --> 00:24:34,000
what all there was they will need to meet for the tree code

504
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,240
okay so they are

505
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,279
not double deep in in that regards whatever they are

506
00:24:38,279 --> 00:24:39,480
proposed and required

507
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:43,349
to do to me the tree code will be in above and beyond of

508
00:24:43,349 --> 00:24:44,799
what this mitigation

509
00:24:44,799 --> 00:24:49,519
is okay so in that regard they will not be required if they

510
00:24:49,519 --> 00:24:51,119
choose to cut down

511
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,799
those three because they have other trees to mitigate and

512
00:24:55,799 --> 00:24:57,160
meet the tree code

513
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:02,599
they could however through this mitigation process that

514
00:25:02,599 --> 00:25:04,160
area will be set

515
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:09,750
aside so it is a mitigate technically it is a mitigation

516
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:10,680
because they are not

517
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,769
using those to meet the tree code have you has the

518
00:25:13,769 --> 00:25:15,440
applicant talked at all

519
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,750
about adding to the wetland habitat instead of just adding

520
00:25:18,750 --> 00:25:19,680
to the dry land

521
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,250
one is there any are there any trees or or habitat that

522
00:25:24,250 --> 00:25:26,079
could be restored or

523
00:25:26,079 --> 00:25:32,410
repaired or well the the habitat is right now fairly it is

524
00:25:32,410 --> 00:25:34,240
good okay and is

525
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,410
heavily danced when you go to mitigate a habitat like that

526
00:25:38,410 --> 00:25:39,759
you look for areas

527
00:25:39,759 --> 00:25:43,950
that where erosion is happening where decay the channel is

528
00:25:43,950 --> 00:25:45,000
unstable and they

529
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,319
make it they could make it a stable or where the vegetation

530
00:25:49,319 --> 00:25:50,559
is sparse and you

531
00:25:50,559 --> 00:25:53,470
can actually add to it they can also look into the

532
00:25:53,470 --> 00:25:55,319
possibility of going and

533
00:25:55,319 --> 00:25:59,019
remove any exotic like private and things that will

534
00:25:59,019 --> 00:26:00,720
otherwise improve the

535
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,029
the habitat of that area that option is always there from a

536
00:26:05,029 --> 00:26:07,400
tree standpoint the

537
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:12,460
they're really working with a very very dense repair and

538
00:26:12,460 --> 00:26:14,519
buffer then you start

539
00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:18,539
looking into how viable planting new trees will be because

540
00:26:18,539 --> 00:26:19,680
those trees are

541
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:24,180
competing for sunlight okay sunlight is probably the

542
00:26:24,180 --> 00:26:26,640
limiting factor so you will

543
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,869
need to start looking to can they actually improve this

544
00:26:29,869 --> 00:26:30,920
making it better

545
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:36,049
or are we talking about removing exotics and invasive

546
00:26:36,049 --> 00:26:38,920
species or looking into the

547
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:42,390
hydraulics of the of the channel and making it better but

548
00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:43,480
from a vegetation

549
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:48,869
standpoint it is quite dense so that's and the other the

550
00:26:48,869 --> 00:26:50,240
other thing that

551
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,720
they're using is the repairing buffer will provide

552
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,799
protection based on drainage

553
00:26:57,799 --> 00:27:01,160
area hundred or two hundred it doesn't means that the

554
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:02,039
habitat and the

555
00:27:02,039 --> 00:27:05,509
vegetation stops at those boundaries okay those are kind of

556
00:27:05,509 --> 00:27:06,799
arbitrary boundaries

557
00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:10,809
that we have established so if you if you see the the area

558
00:27:10,809 --> 00:27:12,079
photograph this

559
00:27:12,079 --> 00:27:16,059
upland vegetation is a continuation is a gradient from a

560
00:27:16,059 --> 00:27:17,799
water related closer to

561
00:27:17,799 --> 00:27:21,240
the stream and that is transition is transition to an up

562
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:22,160
land so what they're

563
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,019
doing is just a continuity preserving an area that is part

564
00:27:26,019 --> 00:27:28,480
of the gradient

565
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,700
vegetation wise existing in that facility in that aside yes

566
00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:32,920
sir

567
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:35,920
commissioner Dudowitz I think what you're explaining is

568
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:36,920
what I would call

569
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:42,680
selective pruning to enhance the vegetation as long as it

570
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:43,440
gets so

571
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,630
compacted everybody competes and it stunts the growth of

572
00:27:46,630 --> 00:27:48,319
everything so what

573
00:27:48,319 --> 00:27:51,660
you're suggesting here at maturity is twice as much the

574
00:27:51,660 --> 00:27:54,160
tree canopy yeah is

575
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,819
that five years or ten years well all the they have they

576
00:27:57,819 --> 00:27:59,039
have you they have

577
00:27:59,039 --> 00:28:04,000
selected large tree species from the city tree list okay

578
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,920
and it might be

579
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,190
pertinent to show where those locations are going to be

580
00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:11,240
okay the hatch area is

581
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:16,740
the area that will be disturbed okay this is the area where

582
00:28:16,740 --> 00:28:18,039
the existing

583
00:28:18,039 --> 00:28:23,150
trees are the ten trees and this this and this are the new

584
00:28:23,150 --> 00:28:25,039
trees that they're

585
00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:28,250
going to plant what they're doing is they're using an

586
00:28:28,250 --> 00:28:30,079
existing gap where

587
00:28:30,079 --> 00:28:35,140
trees could be planted they have determined that a large

588
00:28:35,140 --> 00:28:36,279
tree will be

589
00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:39,549
the right amount of trees for that area so in that way the

590
00:28:39,549 --> 00:28:40,640
trees will have a

591
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,789
chance to actually grow and expand so that's the areas that

592
00:28:44,789 --> 00:28:45,839
they're doing

593
00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:52,859
right now there is a gap right here so they are closing

594
00:28:52,859 --> 00:28:54,240
that gap with those new

595
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,319
trees that's what they're doing and what's the caliper of

596
00:28:57,319 --> 00:28:58,759
those trees at the

597
00:28:58,759 --> 00:29:03,559
planting will be two inches and eventually when they will

598
00:29:03,559 --> 00:29:04,480
grow and be

599
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:10,259
mature so um I'm not a tree expert but my understanding is

600
00:29:10,259 --> 00:29:11,400
when you plant trees

601
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,369
the smaller you plant them the better chances they have to

602
00:29:15,369 --> 00:29:16,519
adapt to the soils

603
00:29:16,519 --> 00:29:22,240
on the condition and to thrive commissioner Taylor thank

604
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,880
you chair so

605
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,140
this arithmetic is really interesting because we have 13,

606
00:29:28,140 --> 00:29:30,039
000 square feet that's

607
00:29:30,039 --> 00:29:35,599
going to provide 19,000 square feet of canopy so I'm really

608
00:29:35,599 --> 00:29:36,920
fascinated by that

609
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:40,589
you know this is this reminds me of the 30% lot coverage at

610
00:29:40,589 --> 00:29:41,720
the Kroger parking

611
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,970
lot up here where there's a tree every hundred parking

612
00:29:44,970 --> 00:29:46,839
spots and I know that

613
00:29:46,839 --> 00:29:49,789
this is based on oh we're going to plant a chinkapin and at

614
00:29:49,789 --> 00:29:50,640
a hundred years of

615
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,859
age a chinkapin can you know maximum can provide you know 5

616
00:29:53,859 --> 00:29:55,599
,000 square feet of

617
00:29:55,599 --> 00:29:58,769
canopy or 2,000 square feet of canopy or whatever it is so

618
00:29:58,769 --> 00:29:59,960
therefore this two

619
00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:05,420
inch chinkapin qualifies us for 5,000 square feet of canopy

620
00:30:05,420 --> 00:30:07,400
removal what kind

621
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,319
of species are currently in the ESA that are being removed

622
00:30:10,319 --> 00:30:12,599
there a combination

623
00:30:12,599 --> 00:30:21,960
of elms let me pull that information quickly there are Oaks

624
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:29,680
, Elms, we have

625
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:38,380
honeysuckle we have mulberries, elms, cedar elms and post o

626
00:30:38,380 --> 00:30:40,039
aks okay so it

627
00:30:40,039 --> 00:30:43,259
sounds like this was kind of cross timbers red red sand

628
00:30:43,259 --> 00:30:44,359
soil with cross

629
00:30:44,359 --> 00:30:48,640
timbers type yeah well just keep in mind from a ecoregion

630
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,359
standpoint the eastern

631
00:30:50,359 --> 00:30:55,240
part of Denton it falls within the eastern cross timber ec

632
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:56,480
oregion habitat

633
00:30:56,480 --> 00:31:01,980
and then the other half is within the Grand Prairie ecoreg

634
00:31:01,980 --> 00:31:03,359
ion so pretty much

635
00:31:03,359 --> 00:31:08,859
we're in that middle where it is a transition of a little

636
00:31:08,859 --> 00:31:10,240
bit of the two and

637
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,059
I've noticed in the description that the pond is going to

638
00:31:13,059 --> 00:31:14,920
become a water feature

639
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:21,900
with storm water mitigation above the low trend with the

640
00:31:21,900 --> 00:31:23,079
tension above normal pool

641
00:31:23,079 --> 00:31:26,750
elevation as it puts it this might be a question for for

642
00:31:26,750 --> 00:31:28,240
planning more than you

643
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:33,019
but I was curious if the increased elevation during during

644
00:31:33,019 --> 00:31:34,160
detention would

645
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:40,599
have any impact to the existing trees it's my understanding

646
00:31:40,599 --> 00:31:41,480
that they they

647
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,240
will use this as a water as an amenity feature for the site

648
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:46,640
and they will have

649
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,950
to meet the detention requirements using a separate pond so

650
00:31:50,950 --> 00:31:52,079
that in on the side

651
00:31:52,079 --> 00:31:55,750
will be potentially two ponds one that will be used for the

652
00:31:55,750 --> 00:31:56,519
for the water

653
00:31:56,519 --> 00:32:00,599
features and then there will be one for drainage purposes

654
00:32:00,599 --> 00:32:01,559
is that reflected on

655
00:32:01,559 --> 00:32:06,640
the plot what you have before you with regard to the plan

656
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:07,319
it's just a

657
00:32:07,319 --> 00:32:10,630
preliminary plot that shows your basic easements in terms

658
00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:11,920
of full schematic for

659
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,119
drainage that will come forward with your final plotting

660
00:32:16,119 --> 00:32:16,759
process

661
00:32:21,079 --> 00:32:24,869
Commissioner Beck. Thank you chair. We've been talking

662
00:32:24,869 --> 00:32:27,119
about the trees and that is important I'm glad that was

663
00:32:27,119 --> 00:32:32,200
brought up but we haven't addressed the repairing buffer on

664
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,319
the ground which is an accumulation of debris that takes

665
00:32:35,319 --> 00:32:39,599
years to do so we're going to lose that for a long period

666
00:32:39,599 --> 00:32:44,039
of time and as we see this new ESA is going to be right in

667
00:32:44,039 --> 00:32:49,480
front of this pond so I'm kind of concerned that that will

668
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,000
take much longer

669
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,309
time to revitalize or rejuvenate or whatever you want to

670
00:32:55,309 --> 00:33:01,369
say then the trees should we be concerned about that and so

671
00:33:01,369 --> 00:33:06,200
is there something we can do to move it along a little bit

672
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:12,319
quicker? Well the the understory is as important as the

673
00:33:12,319 --> 00:33:16,079
trees are because they feed from each other okay and it's a

674
00:33:16,079 --> 00:33:19,170
cycle. What are you calling it? The understory? Understory.

675
00:33:19,170 --> 00:33:20,960
Understory vegetation which is

676
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,009
everything that goes underneath the tree canopy of the

677
00:33:24,009 --> 00:33:28,579
trees okay so because we're talking about separate

678
00:33:28,579 --> 00:33:34,390
different type of habitats the area where the the

679
00:33:34,390 --> 00:33:40,960
mitigation is going to happen could be could be first be

680
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:46,960
not do any type of management when I say management

681
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,069
most people think about moldy area mold lawns very manic

682
00:33:51,069 --> 00:33:55,619
ured type of settings in that area that type of management

683
00:33:55,619 --> 00:33:59,000
will not be appropriate just to let that however we can

684
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:04,730
also supplement that area and I don't want to put words on

685
00:34:04,730 --> 00:34:08,119
the applicant at this point but technically speaking you

686
00:34:08,119 --> 00:34:12,360
can actually plant other species grasses and so forth that

687
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,440
could actually start kind of giving a head start

688
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:22,130
of that area to improve the quality of that understory

689
00:34:22,130 --> 00:34:27,079
however as nature goes you let them take its own course and

690
00:34:27,079 --> 00:34:31,130
eventually we will get there but it could be it takes some

691
00:34:31,130 --> 00:34:35,429
time so you're definitely right. Any other questions?

692
00:34:35,429 --> 00:34:40,440
Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you Chair. Maybe you're going

693
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,719
to get to this slide later but I'm curious how that road

694
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,440
will affect any wildlife that's going to be affected by the

695
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:45,440
understory.

696
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:50,139
Wildlife that lives north and south trying to get to and

697
00:34:50,139 --> 00:34:53,760
from the pond maybe for hatching or is how are we

698
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,780
addressing that? At this point the applicant is proposing

699
00:34:57,780 --> 00:35:01,239
to put to make that crossing they will put some culverts

700
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,429
underneath the road to support the road so those are big

701
00:35:04,429 --> 00:35:09,440
pipelines pipes that goes underneath so during low water

702
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:14,440
regimes the species will be able to travel underneath

703
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:22,500
the road. Species they found their way there's born and

704
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:30,309
they will use those culverts as a connection from upstream

705
00:35:30,309 --> 00:35:38,159
and downstream. Any other questions? Okay. Commissioner

706
00:35:38,159 --> 00:35:42,199
Beck. Animal species the information you sent Julia

707
00:35:42,199 --> 00:35:42,440
mentioned talked about

708
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:48,070
the red snake and the spiny lizard. What other species are

709
00:35:48,070 --> 00:35:53,280
in there? Well those were pictures that when we went to the

710
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,920
site back in 2008 we were surprised about how prevalent

711
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:03,440
wildlife was there. You know when they well wildlife tend

712
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:07,440
to go away to hide when they feel human presence.

713
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,639
So when we were on the site back in 2008 it was quite

714
00:36:11,639 --> 00:36:16,000
interesting to see actually see wildlife there. So that

715
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:21,369
makes us believe that it is heavily used. Okay. We didn't

716
00:36:21,369 --> 00:36:26,920
make a survey about wildlife species we just assume that

717
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:35,429
they are there from rodents to vertebrates to amphibians

718
00:36:35,429 --> 00:36:36,440
and so on.

719
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,389
So there will be a little bit of everything. Will we lose

720
00:36:39,389 --> 00:36:44,230
those for a while or permanently do we know that? Well if

721
00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:50,710
the entire riparian buffer were to be eliminated I will say

722
00:36:50,710 --> 00:36:56,159
yes because then even for migratory birds they will not

723
00:36:56,159 --> 00:36:58,440
have that chance to kind of stop by.

724
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:04,070
On that stretch because it is a localized disturbance I

725
00:37:04,070 --> 00:37:09,599
will say that we will still have the possibility of the

726
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:15,070
wildlife to stay there. How much traffic it goes you know

727
00:37:15,070 --> 00:37:19,760
that might scare some species some birds to actually nest

728
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,440
in that area or to go.

729
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:28,150
That's something that it is a reality but I think that

730
00:37:28,150 --> 00:37:33,539
having the riparian buffer upstream and downstream we will

731
00:37:33,539 --> 00:37:38,440
not lose all the wildlife that we are having there.

732
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,440
Perhaps in time it will build back up. Thank you.

733
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,500
I have one question before you move on from that slide. I

734
00:37:45,500 --> 00:37:48,139
think you stated earlier that the pond as it exists is not

735
00:37:48,139 --> 00:37:50,739
going to be for detention there's going to probably be a

736
00:37:50,739 --> 00:37:52,440
separate area for detention.

737
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,440
That's my understanding.

738
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:59,869
And that will come back. So I mean, technically, the

739
00:37:59,869 --> 00:38:04,010
applicant could if they want to fill the pond and since it

740
00:38:04,010 --> 00:38:06,440
's not going to be for detention.

741
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:09,099
They're preserving that and making a water feature out of

742
00:38:09,099 --> 00:38:13,440
it. And then also maintaining all this riparian buffer.

743
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,480
Correct. So if another use came in, possibly that pond

744
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,440
since it's not being used for detention.

745
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,300
There's no riparian buffer around it, it could be filled in

746
00:38:24,300 --> 00:38:28,059
completely for example like the little pond at the corner

747
00:38:28,059 --> 00:38:30,440
of Hickory Creek and 2181.

748
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,980
I can understand. I can answer that from planning. The rez

749
00:38:33,980 --> 00:38:37,440
oning for this property in 2008.

750
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,860
That ordinance that rezoned it did require that the pond

751
00:38:40,860 --> 00:38:41,440
stay.

752
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:47,440
So thank you. That pond would stay.

753
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,780
Also, it's my understanding that as a part of that zoning

754
00:38:51,780 --> 00:38:55,440
overlay, they have to leave the vegetation.

755
00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:00,980
Did you see this line that goes kind of diagonally? That's

756
00:39:00,980 --> 00:39:05,340
the separation that they must keep vegetated as a part of

757
00:39:05,340 --> 00:39:07,440
the zoning condition.

758
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:12,650
All of the riparian buffer as it curves down encroaching

759
00:39:12,650 --> 00:39:18,070
into that area. So that stretch of vegetation, even when it

760
00:39:18,070 --> 00:39:21,440
's outside the riparian buffer, will have to be preserved.

761
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,440
Okay. Commissioner Taylor.

762
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,099
So following up on that point, there's a piece of that that

763
00:39:28,099 --> 00:39:32,179
looks like it's going to be rowed. Wouldn't that not be

764
00:39:32,179 --> 00:39:33,440
vegetated?

765
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:39,440
Right at the top corner. Keep going to your right. Keep

766
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:39,440
going to your right.

767
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:43,780
Looks like, is that like the 30? Well. Up and across. Keep

768
00:39:43,780 --> 00:39:50,440
going. That little dashed corner line is what, yes.

769
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,159
So if that's the, whatever it is, 30 or 40 foot buffer off

770
00:39:54,159 --> 00:39:54,440
the.

771
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,010
Are you talking about this, probably this triangle right

772
00:39:57,010 --> 00:39:58,440
here? Yes.

773
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:04,909
Potentially, yes. But the other thing is, that will be

774
00:40:04,909 --> 00:40:09,710
something that the applicant will have, could check if twe

775
00:40:09,710 --> 00:40:13,639
aking the geometry of the road could actually avoid that

776
00:40:13,639 --> 00:40:14,440
area.

777
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:20,440
If not, they will have to get creative.

778
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:26,219
So I guess I have some concerns just about how this is

779
00:40:26,219 --> 00:40:29,440
going right now. We have a lot of backup material.

780
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,320
Like the ESA mitigation plan that indicates that the pond

781
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,440
is going to be a detention pond as well as a water feature.

782
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,480
And then we have information about an overlay requirement

783
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,889
that says that an area must be vegetated, but it's inside

784
00:40:44,889 --> 00:40:48,820
of the 50 foot private drive area and appears to be planned

785
00:40:48,820 --> 00:40:49,440
to be paved.

786
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:55,679
We know that we don't, we have a preliminary plat that we

787
00:40:55,679 --> 00:40:59,440
don't know, that will depend on the outcome of the ESA,

788
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,440
alternate ESA approval.

789
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,630
And then we know that the final plat will be quite

790
00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:08,440
different from the drawings we're being presented.

791
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:13,110
Is there any way to get more consistent information about

792
00:41:13,110 --> 00:41:17,670
the plans so that we can have a plan and not five competing

793
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:19,440
plans to approve?

794
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,440
I'll ask staff to address that.

795
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,690
Thank you. The intent of the final plat is to provide

796
00:41:25,690 --> 00:41:28,670
guidance as far as the lot layout is concerned and your

797
00:41:28,670 --> 00:41:31,440
basic easements that are associated with it.

798
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,389
Hand in hand, the applicant has submitted civil drawings

799
00:41:35,389 --> 00:41:38,440
for review, which are in very good shape.

800
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:41,949
That being said, what you have before you, the schematic

801
00:41:41,949 --> 00:41:45,690
drawing reflecting the impact on the riparian buffer, that

802
00:41:45,690 --> 00:41:48,929
ESA component, and the mitigation in terms of square

803
00:41:48,929 --> 00:41:51,440
footage, that is indeed accurate.

804
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,440
In terms of how would they offset, and Deborah mentioned it

805
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,190
's not a comparison of apples to apples to a great extent

806
00:41:57,190 --> 00:42:00,079
because you've got two mechanisms, a wet one and then you

807
00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:03,079
've got a gray mechanism as well that's associated with this

808
00:42:03,079 --> 00:42:03,440
.

809
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,849
The other thing that I do want to emphasize is as it stands

810
00:42:06,849 --> 00:42:10,440
with what we have received in terms of the civil drawings.

811
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,110
And what you see on these schematic drawings that have been

812
00:42:13,110 --> 00:42:15,610
provided to you for illustrative purposes to give you a

813
00:42:15,610 --> 00:42:18,059
visual perspective on what is going on and what would be

814
00:42:18,059 --> 00:42:19,440
perceived once that,

815
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,380
should that alternative ESA be approved, then at final

816
00:42:23,380 --> 00:42:24,440
plotting time,

817
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,949
all the specificity related to the infrastructure would be

818
00:42:28,949 --> 00:42:31,440
reflected on your final plot.

819
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,130
In this case, what we're looking at is purely to look at

820
00:42:35,130 --> 00:42:38,239
and narrow in into this component of the request, which is

821
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,440
an alternative ESA.

822
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,929
And based on the parameters that they've provided, which is

823
00:42:42,929 --> 00:42:46,760
they would like to provide a common access/private drive to

824
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,440
be able to access the rear of those lots,

825
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:54,440
which from a circulation standpoint is a sensible route.

826
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,030
But we also know in order for them to do that, they would

827
00:42:57,030 --> 00:42:58,440
be impacting that ESA.

828
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,590
How much of the ESA would they be impacting, which we've

829
00:43:01,590 --> 00:43:02,440
provided.

830
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:06,440
Now, would things change? Can things change? Absolutely.

831
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,030
What if there's a significant civil issue that needs,

832
00:43:09,030 --> 00:43:11,440
engineering issue that needs to be addressed?

833
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,389
That could change and the ESA would have to come before you

834
00:43:14,389 --> 00:43:15,440
to be revisited.

835
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,519
So from what we've received thus far, from the civil

836
00:43:18,519 --> 00:43:20,440
drawings that we've received,

837
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,969
we're fairly confident with the material that we've

838
00:43:22,969 --> 00:43:25,570
received that those would be your mitigation areas or

839
00:43:25,570 --> 00:43:26,440
parameters.

840
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,000
Now you've pointed out, and justly so, that there's a

841
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,440
corner that shows that it needs to be protected.

842
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:36,690
We also have an overlay district that has specifics related

843
00:43:36,690 --> 00:43:39,409
to screening mechanisms around the boundary or perimeter of

844
00:43:39,409 --> 00:43:40,440
this property.

845
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,239
But at final plat stage, all the pertinent infrastructure

846
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,440
would be provided and reflected on the plat,

847
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,010
which would be consistent with what's reflected on this

848
00:43:50,010 --> 00:43:50,440
drawing.

849
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,239
And if it were not and the ESA were changed or the limits

850
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,440
or the boundaries of that were changed,

851
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,409
you would see another, you would see a variance request or

852
00:43:58,409 --> 00:44:00,440
an alternative ESA come before you.

853
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,179
Another alternative ESA. So is, and this would be null and

854
00:44:03,179 --> 00:44:03,440
void.

855
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:08,440
So the final plat is, has been submitted?

856
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,440
It will be submitted imminently.

857
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,800
Okay. And what is the, this is the first I've heard of the

858
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:14,440
overlay.

859
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,440
I don't know if it was in the backup, I missed it.

860
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,440
Could we go over what the overlay entails?

861
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,659
Julie, would you just talk about just the specifics

862
00:44:23,659 --> 00:44:24,440
associated,

863
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,320
which is primarily the water amenity of the water feature

864
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:28,440
that we've discussed,

865
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,489
and then having landscaping around the boundary of the

866
00:44:31,489 --> 00:44:34,440
property within a 50 foot landscape buffer?

867
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,440
Yes. I'm going to speak from memory here.

868
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:45,440
The, the 2008 overlay required that,

869
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,440
we'll just look here. That's the best example.

870
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,440
That this pond remain.

871
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,909
There would be a 50 foot landscape buffer between any

872
00:44:52,909 --> 00:44:58,690
development and the adjacent residential along this area as

873
00:44:58,690 --> 00:44:59,440
well as,

874
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,440
as well as this area,

875
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,440
which is in excess of what the code would typically require

876
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,170
between a commercial development and a single family

877
00:45:09,170 --> 00:45:10,440
residential development.

878
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,440
Also, to protect the views of the pond,

879
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:18,329
a wrought iron fence is required on this side of the

880
00:45:18,329 --> 00:45:19,440
development.

881
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,440
And then a masonry fence will be required on this side,

882
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,800
not per that ordinance, but per the Denton development code

883
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,260
requirements that fencing would be required along this side

884
00:45:30,260 --> 00:45:30,440
.

885
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:36,059
So, so those are, those are what the ordinance added to as

886
00:45:36,059 --> 00:45:38,440
far as site design for the property.

887
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:42,440
Were there any other portions of the overlay?

888
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,010
I can, I can pull up a copy of it and I can provide that to

889
00:45:45,010 --> 00:45:46,440
you at regular session.

890
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:50,230
I did not bring a copy of it with me today, but I can

891
00:45:50,230 --> 00:45:53,440
certainly provide that to you.

892
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:54,440
Commissioner Roselle.

893
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,769
Thank you. Just for my identification, those houses cannot

894
00:45:57,769 --> 00:45:59,440
put up a privacy fence.

895
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,440
They have to have a wrought iron back fence.

896
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:06,440
Per the ordinance, a wrought iron fence in order to,

897
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:10,449
the previous project that was before, before city council

898
00:46:10,449 --> 00:46:11,440
was,

899
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,920
they were concerned about the views for the pond because

900
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,440
they really enjoy the pond and the views that it provided.

901
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,440
And so they wanted to protect those views.

902
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:24,099
So that's, that's why the wrought iron was part of that is

903
00:46:24,099 --> 00:46:25,440
my understanding.

904
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,659
As a side note, it might be worthwhile looking into now

905
00:46:28,659 --> 00:46:30,440
that their views are Buc-ee's.

906
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:34,599
What we can do to update that and give them some freedom

907
00:46:34,599 --> 00:46:35,440
there.

908
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,440
That's a side note I know, but that might be.

909
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:39,440
And that's a fair comment.

910
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,579
Also that 50 foot landscape buffer is intended to, to

911
00:46:43,579 --> 00:46:46,440
mitigate some of those visual nuisances.

912
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:52,030
But, but I know that the neighbors are concerned and are,

913
00:46:52,030 --> 00:46:53,440
are providing us feedback for what they're.

914
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,440
Sure. Okay.

915
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,440
Menal, did you have something you wanted to add?

916
00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:58,440
I was going to call on Commissioner Dudle.

917
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,440
Before I do, I'm mindful of the clock.

918
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,440
I know we have another item as well.

919
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,110
So, want as much discussion as we can, but also want to try

920
00:47:06,110 --> 00:47:07,440
to keep it as best we can,

921
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,260
confirmed to the ESA question that we have on this so that

922
00:47:10,260 --> 00:47:11,440
we can get through this.

923
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,750
And I know we have another very important item to go over

924
00:47:14,750 --> 00:47:15,440
as well.

925
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:16,440
Sure.

926
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:17,440
Commissioner Dudlewicz.

927
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,250
Any significant question, but the homeowners are allowed to

928
00:47:20,250 --> 00:47:22,920
put up whatever fence in their property line as they wish,

929
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:23,440
right?

930
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,650
If they meet the DENT development code requirements for

931
00:47:25,650 --> 00:47:26,440
perimeter fence.

932
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:27,440
Okay.

933
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,440
So if they were concerned, they would put something up.

934
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:31,440
Thank you.

935
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,079
And just to point out, the concept plan had the dried

936
00:47:34,079 --> 00:47:35,440
attention in this area.

937
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,440
Okay.

938
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:41,440
I'll let Deborah.

939
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:42,440
Commissioner Bruegel.

940
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:43,440
Thank you, Chair.

941
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,440
Sorry, can you go back to that slide that you just.

942
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,440
Actually, you know what, go back.

943
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:48,440
That one works too.

944
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,440
Okay.

945
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:57,780
So I understand Buc-E's would like to build a road to give

946
00:47:57,780 --> 00:47:58,440
back access to these other lots in the front.

947
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,440
What's this curb cut on the left side there?

948
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,650
I think in your concept plan, it looked like it was going

949
00:48:03,650 --> 00:48:05,440
to go, no, keep going to that right there.

950
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:06,440
That right there?

951
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:07,440
That's lot two.

952
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,440
Yeah.

953
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:10,440
That is lot two.

954
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,440
But that's outside the riparian habitat.

955
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:15,269
So if they wanted to build, they would just have to meet

956
00:48:15,269 --> 00:48:18,440
the tree code when they're cutting down all those trees.

957
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,440
Correct.

958
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:24,550
So the requirements of the tree code, the mitigation and

959
00:48:24,550 --> 00:48:27,190
preservation requirements as it relates to the development

960
00:48:27,190 --> 00:48:30,440
of the site when they go vertical, applies, still applies.

961
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:35,050
That is, the ESA mitigation that you see is just the ESA

962
00:48:35,050 --> 00:48:36,440
mitigation.

963
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,179
Any other mitigation associated with the development of the

964
00:48:39,179 --> 00:48:40,440
site would be required.

965
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,440
Okay.

966
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:43,440
Thank you.

967
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:44,440
Okay.

968
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:45,440
I'm sorry.

969
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,440
You're good.

970
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,679
Well, do we have any other question about the green

971
00:48:49,679 --> 00:48:50,440
mitigation?

972
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:52,440
Let's move with the gray.

973
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:53,440
Okay.

974
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:56,440
What is shown in pink is the drainage area.

975
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,650
Right now, the applicant is proposing to provide two stump

976
00:48:59,650 --> 00:49:00,440
scepters.

977
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:05,099
Stump scepters are a stone water controls to actually treat

978
00:49:05,099 --> 00:49:07,440
the quality of the run-up.

979
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:11,619
In the city of Denton, we have separated a sanitary sewer

980
00:49:11,619 --> 00:49:16,440
system, meaning that the storm water is not treated.

981
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:19,710
It goes into the storm drain, into the pipe, is discharged

982
00:49:19,710 --> 00:49:24,079
to the nearest creek or lake, and that water is not treated

983
00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:24,440
.

984
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:25,440
Okay.

985
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:29,480
With the proposal of the two stump scepters, the applicant

986
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:34,440
is proposing to attain the same filtrating capabilities

987
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,440
that riparian buffers provide

988
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,440
by retaining sediments, nutrients, and so forth.

989
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:40,440
Okay.

990
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:44,110
So the two pink areas right here, this would be one

991
00:49:44,110 --> 00:49:45,440
drainage area.

992
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,440
The other drainage area would be right here.

993
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:49,440
Okay.

994
00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:52,010
So what they will do, they will put the stump scepters at

995
00:49:52,010 --> 00:49:55,059
the lowest point to be able to capture that water, process

996
00:49:55,059 --> 00:49:57,440
it, and then release it.

997
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,110
So in that way, when it released, it is in better quality

998
00:50:01,110 --> 00:50:03,440
than when it was first captured.

999
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,800
When we are going through what a stump scepter is, we have

1000
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:08,440
a cool animation for you.

1001
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:10,440
I'm very proud.

1002
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,030
What a stump scepter is, this is the inside of a stump scep

1003
00:50:13,030 --> 00:50:13,440
ter.

1004
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:18,440
Pretty much water comes, okay, by a vortex.

1005
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:23,139
All the sediments, water and sediments and floatables and

1006
00:50:23,139 --> 00:50:28,010
grass and fat, they are send it to the bottom of the

1007
00:50:28,010 --> 00:50:29,440
container.

1008
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,670
The sediments will actually set it out of solution because

1009
00:50:32,670 --> 00:50:34,440
they are heavier than water.

1010
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,440
Therefore, they accumulate in the bottom.

1011
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:40,440
The oils and fats, they tend to float.

1012
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:44,440
This barrier right here would be -- am I moving this?

1013
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:45,440
Where's my pointer?

1014
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:46,440
Okay.

1015
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:50,130
So this barrier right here would be able to take care of

1016
00:50:50,130 --> 00:50:53,440
the fat and oils, anything that floats on top of the water.

1017
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:59,550
And then water by the head of the pressure, it will come

1018
00:50:59,550 --> 00:51:00,440
out.

1019
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,440
Where's my pointer again?

1020
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,440
I lost it.

1021
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:10,440
Water will come out and then get going.

1022
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,440
I think staff came in that's doing video.

1023
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,650
They're having a hard time hearing if you're not right in

1024
00:51:15,650 --> 00:51:16,440
front of the mic.

1025
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:17,440
Sorry.

1026
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:18,440
They're missing what you're saying.

1027
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:20,440
So I'll just state that.

1028
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,909
This is how it looks when the actual storm scepter is

1029
00:51:23,909 --> 00:51:25,440
filled with water.

1030
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:27,440
This is the vortex.

1031
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:31,539
This is how the outside of the storm scepter looks like and

1032
00:51:31,539 --> 00:51:34,090
how it would be actually buried into the ground to be able

1033
00:51:34,090 --> 00:51:35,440
to get all the water.

1034
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:48,000
And hopefully we can -- this is just a quick animation of

1035
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:49,440
how a storm scepter works.

1036
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:54,440
I'm going to use a heavy rainfall event.

1037
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:55,440
Okay.

1038
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:59,210
I'm going to start adding -- you will see how the water --

1039
00:51:59,210 --> 00:52:01,440
the runoff start filling in.

1040
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,440
This is the vortex.

1041
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,769
I'm going to start adding the oil and I'm going to start

1042
00:52:06,769 --> 00:52:10,440
adding the sediments that washes off with that runoff.

1043
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:11,440
Okay.

1044
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:15,900
So you can see how the sediments will be collected on the

1045
00:52:15,900 --> 00:52:20,070
bottom of the side and how the oil -- you see this line

1046
00:52:20,070 --> 00:52:21,440
right here?

1047
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,849
This is supposed to be the layer of oil and fat that will

1048
00:52:24,849 --> 00:52:26,440
start accumulating.

1049
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,880
So pretty much when the water goes through that cycle, what

1050
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:35,619
it comes out through here, it will be a cleaner water that

1051
00:52:35,619 --> 00:52:38,440
will be discharged into the creek.

1052
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:42,349
And that's how they are proposing to mitigate for the loss

1053
00:52:42,349 --> 00:52:46,440
of the filtration capabilities that that stretch of repair

1054
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:48,440
and buffer is providing.

1055
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:50,440
Commissioner Bruegel.

1056
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:51,440
Thank you, Chair.

1057
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,920
Can you show me again on the map where they're going to

1058
00:52:53,920 --> 00:52:55,440
place those storm scepters?

1059
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:56,440
Are there only two of them?

1060
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:57,440
Yes.

1061
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:58,440
Is that right?

1062
00:52:58,440 --> 00:52:59,440
Let me go here.

1063
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:00,440
Okay.

1064
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:11,440
What they're showing right now are the two drainage areas.

1065
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:15,400
So they will put it in the lowest point because that's what

1066
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,760
they want to do to capture all that water, water moved by

1067
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,440
gravity into those two sides.

1068
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:28,440
And then it will be treated and then discharged.

1069
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:32,400
Where the storm drains are going to be, that will be

1070
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:37,440
something that will be defined during the final plot, okay?

1071
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:41,440
The same as the sizing of those two devices.

1072
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,699
Are we going to size it to deal with the first inch and a

1073
00:53:45,699 --> 00:53:50,179
half of runoff or we are going to discharge for the rainy

1074
00:53:50,179 --> 00:53:53,440
event equivalent to 25 years?

1075
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,789
Those are the details that during the final plot, staff

1076
00:53:57,789 --> 00:54:02,230
will be able to discuss and decide in conjunction with the

1077
00:54:02,230 --> 00:54:03,440
applicant.

1078
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:04,440
So a follow up question then.

1079
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:08,179
So there's going to be some culverts underneath the road to

1080
00:54:08,179 --> 00:54:11,780
connect the water runoff from the north side to the south

1081
00:54:11,780 --> 00:54:12,440
side.

1082
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:15,260
Are there any storm scepters planned for one of those cul

1083
00:54:15,260 --> 00:54:17,889
verts, for example, because you're going to get runoff from

1084
00:54:17,889 --> 00:54:18,440
I-35.

1085
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,989
You're going to get runoff from the development on the

1086
00:54:20,989 --> 00:54:22,440
other side of the highway.

1087
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,440
That's all going to dump right into the north side.

1088
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:30,070
And if there's nothing to, and we've disturbed now more of

1089
00:54:30,070 --> 00:54:33,059
that riparian habitat, which would act as a further

1090
00:54:33,059 --> 00:54:34,440
filtration system.

1091
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,539
Now we're going to get more polluted water just running

1092
00:54:37,539 --> 00:54:38,440
directly into.

1093
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,369
>> Okay, well the drainage area that the applicant have

1094
00:54:41,369 --> 00:54:46,230
identified going into those points, pretty much this is the

1095
00:54:46,230 --> 00:54:48,440
frontage of the lot.

1096
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:50,440
So pretty much it will be this area.

1097
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:54,309
During the final platting, that's where the location would

1098
00:54:54,309 --> 00:54:55,440
be optimized.

1099
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,320
Okay, and then they will have to determine where that storm

1100
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,440
scepter will be able to do the greater good.

1101
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:08,639
Okay, so at that time, we will be able to pinpoint the

1102
00:55:08,639 --> 00:55:11,440
locations and to be able to size it.

1103
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:15,110
We know that at this point what the applicant is proposing

1104
00:55:15,110 --> 00:55:17,440
is to provide two storm scepters.

1105
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,440
One coming on each direction.

1106
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:24,679
And however, the sizing of the storm sector and the

1107
00:55:24,679 --> 00:55:28,440
ultimate location that have not been determined yet.

1108
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:34,099
>> Is there a way to build a culvert that also can act as a

1109
00:55:34,099 --> 00:55:36,440
, like I'm thinking, you know, at Razor Ranch,

1110
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:39,849
those cool curb cuts that they have with all those plants

1111
00:55:39,849 --> 00:55:43,190
in between to kind of filter the waters that runs across

1112
00:55:43,190 --> 00:55:44,440
the parking lot.

1113
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:47,239
Like so the parking lot, there's a filtration system built

1114
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:48,440
into the parking lot.

1115
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,019
Is there any sort of system that can be built into a cul

1116
00:55:51,019 --> 00:55:51,440
vert to-

1117
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:53,929
>> Well- >> Like there's 96 gas pumps there and there's a

1118
00:55:53,929 --> 00:55:55,440
highway on the other side.

1119
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,440
I want to make sure that we keep our water clean.

1120
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:01,719
>> Okay, the runoff from the travel center itself will not

1121
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:04,440
be towards this location, okay?

1122
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:08,369
We are pretty much dealing with the runoff that will be

1123
00:56:08,369 --> 00:56:11,440
generated by the out parcels, okay?

1124
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:14,789
So we are not dealing with the runoff coming out of the

1125
00:56:14,789 --> 00:56:15,440
pumps.

1126
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:19,099
We're just coming, dealing with the runoff from here, from

1127
00:56:19,099 --> 00:56:20,440
those two parcels.

1128
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:27,440
For example, if, and we are not there yet.

1129
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,920
One of the reasons that Razor Ranch put all those controls

1130
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,940
is because the amount of parking, excess parking that they

1131
00:56:32,940 --> 00:56:34,440
were putting, okay?

1132
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,840
If this development were to propose excess parking, which

1133
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,440
we have not discussed at this point.

1134
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:42,679
We don't know if that's the case.

1135
00:56:42,679 --> 00:56:47,590
But if they were to go that route, then staff will bring an

1136
00:56:47,590 --> 00:56:51,570
alternative development plan before you and we will discuss

1137
00:56:51,570 --> 00:56:53,440
those possibilities.

1138
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:58,610
This is just to mitigate for the loss of the ESA, nothing

1139
00:56:58,610 --> 00:56:59,440
more.

1140
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,920
At that time, any other deviation that they might be

1141
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:06,800
considering will have to be mitigated and assessed at that

1142
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:07,440
time.

1143
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:09,920
>> It seems like this would be the right time to be talking

1144
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,079
about more filtration since we're talking about an

1145
00:57:12,079 --> 00:57:13,440
alternative ESA, right?

1146
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:16,920
And I guess my concern is now we're cutting out a chunk of

1147
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:18,440
this riparian habitat,

1148
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:22,230
which would have worked as a further filtration system from

1149
00:57:22,230 --> 00:57:25,440
the properties on either side and the highway.

1150
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,260
And it seems like this would be a good time to talk about

1151
00:57:28,260 --> 00:57:32,920
how can we construct a culvert system that could act also

1152
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,440
as a filtration system.

1153
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:40,260
>> There are controls where you can, and I think Chuy's

1154
00:57:40,260 --> 00:57:42,440
might be having that.

1155
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:49,440
The storm, they call it the skirt, if I'm not mistaken.

1156
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:53,599
You put that, it's a piece of fabric that uses a filtration

1157
00:57:53,599 --> 00:57:54,440
device.

1158
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:57,559
It needs to be replaced every so often as a part of the

1159
00:57:57,559 --> 00:57:58,440
maintenance,

1160
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:03,300
where anything that goes through the culvert actually is

1161
00:58:03,300 --> 00:58:06,440
filtered by that piece of fabric.

1162
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:10,280
At this point, the applicant has chosen to use the storm s

1163
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:13,440
cepter as the most viable solution for them.

1164
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,440
And that's what we are presenting to you.

1165
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,869
>> And do the storm scepters, how do we know if they're

1166
00:58:18,869 --> 00:58:22,440
working or if they need to be replaced or repaired?

1167
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:26,519
>> Like any other controls, they come with a maintenance

1168
00:58:26,519 --> 00:58:27,440
program.

1169
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:31,440
And because this is going to be privately maintained,

1170
00:58:31,440 --> 00:58:36,460
it will be the responsibility of the owner of the parcel

1171
00:58:36,460 --> 00:58:37,440
where the storm sector sits or

1172
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:41,690
some sort of business association if they choose to go that

1173
00:58:41,690 --> 00:58:44,440
route to actually maintain those.

1174
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:48,000
During the final plan, staff were required to provide a

1175
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,440
maintenance plan for those devices.

1176
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:54,199
So whenever somebody buys it from the developer, they will

1177
00:58:54,199 --> 00:58:56,440
know we have this device.

1178
00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:01,440
These are my maintenance requirements to keep that.

1179
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:02,670
>> And they have to submit that to the city to say, yes,

1180
00:59:02,670 --> 00:59:03,440
they are indeed working.

1181
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,440
We had it checked by a-

1182
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,599
>> Most of the time, if they are not being maintained, we

1183
00:59:08,599 --> 00:59:11,440
will start seeing some changes, okay?

1184
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:15,449
And then we will be able to go back and say, you are not in

1185
00:59:15,449 --> 00:59:18,440
compliance with your alternative development plan.

1186
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:22,820
And one of the conditions for the approval is actually the

1187
00:59:22,820 --> 00:59:26,440
production of that maintenance document.

1188
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:32,880
So if the storm sector were to fail due to lack of

1189
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:33,440
maintenance,

1190
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:37,949
then the staff will be able to go back and say, you are not

1191
00:59:37,949 --> 00:59:40,440
in compliance with your ADP.

1192
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:41,440
You need to take care of it.

1193
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:45,440
>> Thank you.

1194
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:46,440
>> Real quick-

1195
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:47,440
>> Commissioner Beck.

1196
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:48,440
>> Thank you, Chair.

1197
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:51,809
>> Will there be somebody from Buc-E's at the public

1198
00:59:51,809 --> 00:59:54,440
meeting that we can direct a lot of these questions?

1199
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,659
>> I believe the applicant will be represented by their

1200
00:59:57,659 --> 00:59:58,440
engineer.

1201
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:00,440
>> Can you answer questions about these?

1202
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,440
>> I believe he will be able to answer those.

1203
01:00:03,440 --> 01:00:04,440
>> I have a clarification.

1204
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:07,440
You presented a green and a gray.

1205
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:08,440
>> Correct.

1206
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:10,440
>> Is it either or or in addition?

1207
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:13,440
>> It's a combination of the two.

1208
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:15,440
>> Okay, so it's both of them working together.

1209
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:16,440
>> Correct.

1210
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:17,440
>> Okay.

1211
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:18,440
>> Thank you.

1212
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:19,440
>> Commissioner Detowitz.

1213
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:20,440
>> One last question.

1214
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:24,360
What other alternative visas have we approved that have

1215
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:29,440
come before us or in the past?

1216
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:36,440
>> We have bountiful property in loop in 380 and loop 288.

1217
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:45,440
Magnolia Apartments on Nottingham and Mingo.

1218
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:51,340
Beaver Creek is a subdivision north of loop 288 and Sher

1219
01:00:51,340 --> 01:00:52,440
bourne.

1220
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:57,289
It's more residential in nature, but they went through an

1221
01:00:57,289 --> 01:00:59,440
alternative ESA plan.

1222
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:00,440
Unicorn Lake is also.

1223
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:03,440
Thank you.

1224
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:09,440
>> How does this compare in relative to disturbance?

1225
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:12,440
>> Well, each one is different.

1226
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:18,639
For example, Beaver Creek, the nature of the development is

1227
01:01:18,639 --> 01:01:20,440
residential versus this.

1228
01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:21,440
It's a little bit different.

1229
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,440
>> What Unicorn Lake then?

1230
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:27,440
>> The Unicorn Lake, they removed repair and buffer.

1231
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:30,440
They removed a lot of upland habitat.

1232
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,440
That was one of the major removals.

1233
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:37,440
So those were the two.

1234
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:42,070
>> I believe Unicorn Lake were larger, way larger in scale

1235
01:01:42,070 --> 01:01:43,440
than this one.

1236
01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:45,610
>> I think we've had a couple of these before us as well on

1237
01:01:45,610 --> 01:01:46,440
city projects.

1238
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:50,389
I think the city had one of these on Kings Row and Loop 288

1239
01:01:50,389 --> 01:01:52,440
on the electric substation.

1240
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:57,130
I think there was also one done with the -- I think it was

1241
01:01:57,130 --> 01:02:02,239
a wastewater treatment plant over off of 1830, just west of

1242
01:02:02,239 --> 01:02:03,440
1830.

1243
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:06,460
The plant was built on the east side of the creek and the

1244
01:02:06,460 --> 01:02:08,440
sewer line was on the west side.

1245
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:10,440
And I think there was a crossing through there too.

1246
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:12,440
>> Yeah.

1247
01:02:12,440 --> 01:02:16,409
They didn't have to go through an alternative ESA plan for

1248
01:02:16,409 --> 01:02:24,630
the pipeline because the purpose of the pipe and the

1249
01:02:24,630 --> 01:02:30,019
storage tank is just to alleviate a compliance issue with

1250
01:02:30,019 --> 01:02:30,440
TCQ.

1251
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:34,860
And the code provides for those type of activity to be

1252
01:02:34,860 --> 01:02:37,440
allowed by right measures.

1253
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:41,280
>> It still went through ESA and effectively it's the same

1254
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:42,440
kind of thing.

1255
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:44,440
>> My point is this is not unusual?

1256
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:45,440
>> It's not.

1257
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:50,440
>> No, we have a fair amount of alternative ESA plans.

1258
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:51,440
>> Private?

1259
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:54,440
>> They've been mitigated to the point of satisfaction?

1260
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:58,989
>> Different techniques and different approaches but all of

1261
01:02:58,989 --> 01:03:03,440
them have been -- have provided some sort of mitigation.

1262
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:05,440
>> Thank you for a great presentation.

1263
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:07,440
>> Julie is going to wrap it up.

1264
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,440
>> Okay.

1265
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:11,440
>> I'll try to move quickly.

1266
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:15,170
Just to answer your question, Commissioner Taylor, there is

1267
01:03:15,170 --> 01:03:18,550
a 50-foot buffer adjacent to the residential that's

1268
01:03:18,550 --> 01:03:21,440
required that has to have landscaping in it.

1269
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:25,710
No building within 100 feet of the residential development

1270
01:03:25,710 --> 01:03:27,440
can be over 40 feet.

1271
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:29,440
No removal of the pond.

1272
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,219
And then the 8-foot wrought iron fence next to South Ridge

1273
01:03:32,219 --> 01:03:33,440
Estates, I believe.

1274
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:36,440
So those were the issues with the overlay.

1275
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:37,440
>> And is --

1276
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:38,440
>> Commissioner Taylor.

1277
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:41,619
>> Is the road construction in that 50-foot buffer going to

1278
01:03:41,619 --> 01:03:42,440
be a problem?

1279
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:46,440
>> Well, right now they're just in the preliminary plat.

1280
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:49,440
It has a 50-foot access easement.

1281
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,150
So the road, you know, would need to stay within -- it

1282
01:03:52,150 --> 01:03:54,929
would have to stay within that access easement but also

1283
01:03:54,929 --> 01:03:56,440
stay out of that buffer.

1284
01:03:56,440 --> 01:04:00,449
So that's something that we will look at as it moves

1285
01:04:00,449 --> 01:04:01,440
forward.

1286
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,440
But it does need to stay outside of that 50-foot buffer.

1287
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:06,440
>> Good catch.

1288
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:07,440
>> Okay.

1289
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:13,440
So when we looked at the considerations for the request,

1290
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,440
first of all, as I think we've been over, they are

1291
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,440
requesting to impact approximately 13,000.

1292
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:21,440
Approximately 13,000 square feet of a riparian buffer.

1293
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:24,130
In order to do so, you have to have an alternative

1294
01:04:24,130 --> 01:04:27,440
environmentally sensitive area plan that is approved.

1295
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:30,960
And the criteria for approval for that in subchapter 17

1296
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:34,190
states that it has to be a high quality development that

1297
01:04:34,190 --> 01:04:38,440
meets the intent of subchapter 17, which is the subchapter

1298
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:42,440
that deals with environmentally sensitive areas.

1299
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:45,179
As Deborah, I think, went over, we'll just touch on quickly

1300
01:04:45,179 --> 01:04:45,440
.

1301
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:48,159
There were -- when we talked to the applicant and what they

1302
01:04:48,159 --> 01:04:51,269
offered as mitigation, I had sort of two components, a

1303
01:04:51,269 --> 01:04:56,929
green component, which includes preserving an equal amount

1304
01:04:56,929 --> 01:05:01,440
of area as to what they would be impacting.

1305
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:03,440
And also adding trees.

1306
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:07,480
We don't have an exact location of those trees because we

1307
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:10,789
want them to be in an area -- they may be outside of that

1308
01:05:10,789 --> 01:05:12,440
preservation area a little bit.

1309
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:15,139
Because we want them to make -- we want to make sure that

1310
01:05:15,139 --> 01:05:17,440
they meet their maximum canopy potential.

1311
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:21,260
So those were conversations that we had internally that we

1312
01:05:21,260 --> 01:05:24,889
didn't want to clump them because we wanted them to reach

1313
01:05:24,889 --> 01:05:27,440
their maximum height and canopy.

1314
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:30,440
The gray solution is the two storm scepters.

1315
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:36,199
That's using technology to mimic what a riparian buffer

1316
01:05:36,199 --> 01:05:42,360
does naturally, and that is to filter that water within the

1317
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:48,260
drainage area so that those -- that sediment oils doesn't

1318
01:05:48,260 --> 01:05:50,440
go into the pond.

1319
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:54,449
So just to wrap up, the preserved area, the tree plantings,

1320
01:05:54,449 --> 01:05:57,769
and the storm scepter are intended to imitate what a

1321
01:05:57,769 --> 01:06:00,440
natural riparian buffer would do.

1322
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:04,110
And that it does meet the goals of the Denton Plan 2030

1323
01:06:04,110 --> 01:06:07,630
because it uses an integrated approach to environmental

1324
01:06:07,630 --> 01:06:10,920
management that creates -- that is hopefully a creative

1325
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:15,440
solution to protect our environment

1326
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:20,369
and allow the riparian buffer in the pond to do what they

1327
01:06:20,369 --> 01:06:22,440
're supposed to do.

1328
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:24,440
We did send out a public notification.

1329
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:26,440
I know you all got some letters.

1330
01:06:26,440 --> 01:06:30,300
Some of them were in the 200-foot boundary, and I believe a

1331
01:06:30,300 --> 01:06:34,730
couple weren't, but we have received two letters in

1332
01:06:34,730 --> 01:06:38,440
opposition within 200 feet.

1333
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:41,670
So based upon the considerations and the talk we've had

1334
01:06:41,670 --> 01:06:45,119
today, staff does recommend approval of the request with

1335
01:06:45,119 --> 01:06:48,780
the conditions that the eight trees need to be planted to

1336
01:06:48,780 --> 01:06:55,440
mitigate the removal of the trees in the ESA.

1337
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:57,440
They have to be from the large tree list.

1338
01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:00,539
And there are provisions within the recommendation of what

1339
01:07:00,539 --> 01:07:03,500
would happen if that tree would die and the maintenance of

1340
01:07:03,500 --> 01:07:04,440
those trees.

1341
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:10,679
The storm scepters would be installed, and the water -- and

1342
01:07:10,679 --> 01:07:14,440
those water quality facilities would be maintained.

1343
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:18,559
And then if there were any problems that would exist that

1344
01:07:18,559 --> 01:07:22,440
the owner would -- the owner would maintain them.

1345
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:27,300
If they did not, then the city would have the right to

1346
01:07:27,300 --> 01:07:32,440
maintain those and recover the cost from the owner.

1347
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:34,840
And Judy, just to add to that, that as part of this

1348
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:37,500
recommendation, we also want to tie the site plan, the

1349
01:07:37,500 --> 01:07:40,440
alternative ESA site plan that is associated with this.

1350
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:43,440
Yes, yes, and also tie the --

1351
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:45,440
Those four criteria.

1352
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:49,789
Just the specific -- it's five criteria, but on the

1353
01:07:49,789 --> 01:07:51,440
specific diagram.

1354
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:58,440
So do you all have any questions regarding --

1355
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:00,750
The applicant is here, so he will speak tonight, the

1356
01:08:00,750 --> 01:08:03,730
engineer for the applicant is here, he'll speak tonight

1357
01:08:03,730 --> 01:08:05,440
regarding the project.

1358
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:06,440
Great.

1359
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:10,440
Thank you for a great presentation, very thorough.

1360
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:16,439
It is 540, and we're going to take a short recess for food,

1361
01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:19,470
and we'll come back here and start our next item, which is

1362
01:08:19,470 --> 01:08:26,439
going to be, I believe, the update for the tree code.

1363
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:30,220
Welcome back, it is 545, and I will call our work session

1364
01:08:30,220 --> 01:08:31,439
back into order.

1365
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:32,439
Thank you.

1366
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:35,430
I think our next item on our agenda is a presentation of

1367
01:08:35,430 --> 01:08:36,439
the tree code.

1368
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:37,439
Yes.

1369
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:38,439
Okay.

1370
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:39,439
Thank you, Chair.

1371
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:40,439
Chandrin, go ahead.

1372
01:08:40,439 --> 01:08:42,550
Good evening, commissioners, I'm Chandrin Jervis with the

1373
01:08:42,550 --> 01:08:43,439
planning division.

1374
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:46,439
The next item is DCA 1601.

1375
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:50,390
These are proposed amendments to the city's -- to subch

1376
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:55,260
apter 35137, which is the city's tree preservation and

1377
01:08:55,260 --> 01:08:57,439
landscape requirements.

1378
01:08:57,439 --> 01:09:00,630
I'm going to ask, because there's a lot of information to

1379
01:09:00,630 --> 01:09:03,880
cover in this presentation, if we could hold the questions

1380
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:08,989
to the end, and I promise I'll make sure that everything's

1381
01:09:08,989 --> 01:09:10,439
addressed.

1382
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:11,439
So thank you.

1383
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:12,439
You know us well, we'll do our best.

1384
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:13,439
Yes.

1385
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:18,439
You can tear me apart at the end.

1386
01:09:18,439 --> 01:09:21,560
The request is to hold a public hearing and consider making

1387
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:24,689
a recommendation to city council regarding the adoption of

1388
01:09:24,689 --> 01:09:28,010
an ordinance of the city of Denton, Texas, amending subch

1389
01:09:28,010 --> 01:09:30,439
apter 353 procedures,

1390
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:36,430
subchapter 3513 site design standards, and subchapter 3523

1391
01:09:36,430 --> 01:09:40,680
definitions and terms of the Denton development code as it

1392
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:45,439
relates to tree preservation and landscape requirements.

1393
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:50,590
To begin, the existing tree code was adopted in 2004 to

1394
01:09:50,590 --> 01:09:55,039
promote the preservation of trees and to allow for the long

1395
01:09:55,039 --> 01:09:59,140
-term viability of trees during site design and construction

1396
01:09:59,140 --> 01:09:59,439
.

1397
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:03,399
While this ordinance has been somewhat effective, more is

1398
01:10:03,399 --> 01:10:07,270
needed to further protect and expand the tree canopy and to

1399
01:10:07,270 --> 01:10:11,390
provide clear guidance for tree preservation and mitigation

1400
01:10:11,390 --> 01:10:13,439
during site development.

1401
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:18,189
Between 2007 and 2013, there were multiple attempts to

1402
01:10:18,189 --> 01:10:20,439
update this section of the code.

1403
01:10:20,439 --> 01:10:25,109
However, none have been successful because of the lack of

1404
01:10:25,109 --> 01:10:28,439
consensus on the proposed revisions.

1405
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:32,380
That's why the current tree code hasn't been updated since

1406
01:10:32,380 --> 01:10:33,439
it was adopted.

1407
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:40,670
And part of the reason why in the fall of 2014, city

1408
01:10:40,670 --> 01:10:47,439
council directed staff to proceed with a new update.

1409
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:51,329
The proposed revisions to the tree code would accomplish

1410
01:10:51,329 --> 01:10:53,439
the following objectives.

1411
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:54,090
It would streamline the code to make it more user-friendly,

1412
01:10:54,090 --> 01:10:54,829
align city standards with best management practices of the

1413
01:10:54,829 --> 01:10:55,510
American National Standards Institute and the International

1414
01:10:55,510 --> 01:11:06,439
Society of Boreculture.

1415
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:10,180
And it would also provide a more robust code that would

1416
01:11:10,180 --> 01:11:14,699
expand and protect tree canopy and help build the city's

1417
01:11:14,699 --> 01:11:20,140
green infrastructure network, as we've identified in our

1418
01:11:20,140 --> 01:11:22,439
comprehensive plan.

1419
01:11:22,439 --> 01:11:26,939
As a part of this effort, staff identified several key task

1420
01:11:26,939 --> 01:11:28,439
ing milestones.

1421
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:32,289
You'll notice on the screen, we got the green light from

1422
01:11:32,289 --> 01:11:36,439
council in the fall of 2004 to begin the update.

1423
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:40,100
We've completed our benchmark, our research and benchmark

1424
01:11:40,100 --> 01:11:44,130
analysis in the fall of 2015, as well as we wrapped up the

1425
01:11:44,130 --> 01:11:48,439
city, the work sessions with the other city departments.

1426
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:52,560
Although our coordination with those departments is still

1427
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:53,439
ongoing.

1428
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:58,449
We also held several external stakeholder meetings,

1429
01:11:58,449 --> 01:12:02,180
particularly with the DEN Community Development Alliance

1430
01:12:02,180 --> 01:12:03,439
and Keep DEN Beautiful,

1431
01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:07,720
from which we received some very helpful feedback that

1432
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:11,439
informed the development of this revision.

1433
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:14,789
In December, last December, you remember that we did

1434
01:12:14,789 --> 01:12:18,079
provide a briefing of the core components that we were

1435
01:12:18,079 --> 01:12:20,439
proposing to change at that time.

1436
01:12:20,439 --> 01:12:25,609
So with the promise that we would come back now to present

1437
01:12:25,609 --> 01:12:27,439
the full report.

1438
01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:31,659
At the beginning of this year, we conducted a community

1439
01:12:31,659 --> 01:12:36,140
visual preference survey to gauge the public's interest in

1440
01:12:36,140 --> 01:12:38,439
trees in the public spaces.

1441
01:12:38,439 --> 01:12:43,109
We actually, we did part in-person surveys and then we

1442
01:12:43,109 --> 01:12:47,829
launched an online survey from which in total we received

1443
01:12:47,829 --> 01:12:51,439
about 1200 comments back.

1444
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:56,439
Most of them were positive.

1445
01:12:56,439 --> 01:12:59,649
So in a few minutes, I'll start talking about the proposed

1446
01:12:59,649 --> 01:13:03,770
revisions, but I want to talk a little bit about the

1447
01:13:03,770 --> 01:13:06,439
benchmark analysis that we conducted.

1448
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:11,109
Since that was the basis for a lot of the recommendations

1449
01:13:11,109 --> 01:13:12,439
that we made.

1450
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:16,439
We looked at ten cities around the state.

1451
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:19,970
Most of them have similar population sizes and projected

1452
01:13:19,970 --> 01:13:21,439
growth rates to DEN.

1453
01:13:21,439 --> 01:13:26,170
And we tried to find those codes, those cities that had

1454
01:13:26,170 --> 01:13:30,439
codes that were well constructed and effective.

1455
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:34,449
And had ordinances that were something that we could

1456
01:13:34,449 --> 01:13:36,439
replicate here at DEN.

1457
01:13:36,439 --> 01:13:41,079
Practices that we could use and inform our tree code update

1458
01:13:41,079 --> 01:13:41,439
.

1459
01:13:41,439 --> 01:13:45,439
As we looked at those ordinances, we focused on five areas.

1460
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:49,680
Established tree designations, which are the trees that

1461
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:52,439
would be subject to the ordinance.

1462
01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:56,859
Minimum preservation percentages, which are the percentage

1463
01:13:56,859 --> 01:13:59,439
of existing trees on a site.

1464
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:04,439
That would be required to be preserved during development.

1465
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:08,119
Tree mitigation ratios, which would be applied when the

1466
01:14:08,119 --> 01:14:11,439
minimum preservation procedures can't be met.

1467
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:15,449
And then the tree fund payments or the payments in lieu,

1468
01:14:15,449 --> 01:14:18,460
which get collected if it's determined that tree mitigation

1469
01:14:18,460 --> 01:14:23,439
by planting on a site isn't feasible or desirable.

1470
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:29,789
And then finally preservation incentives, which are

1471
01:14:29,789 --> 01:14:36,270
intended to encourage the developers to do more than the

1472
01:14:36,270 --> 01:14:39,439
minimum requirements.

1473
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:43,210
So what we found was Denton's tree and landscape code is

1474
01:14:43,210 --> 01:14:47,069
one of the most complex of all the cities that we looked at

1475
01:14:47,069 --> 01:14:47,439
.

1476
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:51,199
We identified seven tree designations in our code compared

1477
01:14:51,199 --> 01:14:54,439
to an average of three for the benchmark cities.

1478
01:14:54,439 --> 01:14:59,340
And our 39 options for preservation, which vary based on

1479
01:14:59,340 --> 01:15:03,369
lot size, tree species, and the type of development is

1480
01:15:03,369 --> 01:15:07,439
significantly more than what we've seen around the state.

1481
01:15:07,439 --> 01:15:11,659
We also noticed that we're trailing in the preservation and

1482
01:15:11,659 --> 01:15:14,439
mitigation standards themselves.

1483
01:15:14,439 --> 01:15:18,439
We have the lowest minimum tree preservation requirements.

1484
01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:22,260
We have no requirement or incentive to save large trees or

1485
01:15:22,260 --> 01:15:24,439
anything over 18 inches.

1486
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:30,439
And we have the lowest mitigation rates for tree removal.

1487
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:34,590
So in your backup, I provided a summary table of the

1488
01:15:34,590 --> 01:15:36,439
proposed changes.

1489
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:40,840
It's arranged by procedures, standards, and the

1490
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:42,439
requirements.

1491
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:45,939
So under the procedures and standards sections, we're

1492
01:15:45,939 --> 01:15:50,600
proposing to align city definitions and terms with industry

1493
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:51,439
standards.

1494
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:57,439
As I mentioned, the ANSI and the ISA earlier.

1495
01:15:57,439 --> 01:16:01,119
We want to reduce the number of tree designations from

1496
01:16:01,119 --> 01:16:02,439
seven to three.

1497
01:16:02,439 --> 01:16:07,390
So we would now have the heritage trees, the protected

1498
01:16:07,390 --> 01:16:10,439
trees, and the canopy trees.

1499
01:16:10,439 --> 01:16:14,380
So the heritage trees would be any healthy tree that's over

1500
01:16:14,380 --> 01:16:19,439
18 inches and designated as heritage by the urban forester.

1501
01:16:19,439 --> 01:16:23,159
The protected tree would be any healthy tree that's over 18

1502
01:16:23,159 --> 01:16:25,439
inches that's not a heritage tree.

1503
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:30,939
And then the canopy tree would be any healthy tree that's

1504
01:16:30,939 --> 01:16:33,439
under 18 inches.

1505
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:37,920
We would also establish an exempt trees list, and these

1506
01:16:37,920 --> 01:16:41,439
trees could be removed without penalty.

1507
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:43,840
And we would reduce the number of exempt properties and

1508
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:44,439
projects.

1509
01:16:44,439 --> 01:16:48,329
Also in your backup is a table that compares the current

1510
01:16:48,329 --> 01:16:52,439
exemptions in the tree code with what we're proposing.

1511
01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:56,569
The most significant changes are what we're requiring of

1512
01:16:56,569 --> 01:17:02,439
the service providers, the city's utility providers.

1513
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:06,149
So you'll notice that that list has almost been cut in half

1514
01:17:06,149 --> 01:17:06,439
.

1515
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:13,840
And in the requirement section, we are proposing to require

1516
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:20,439
tree removal permits for all sites, including residential.

1517
01:17:20,439 --> 01:17:23,939
However, the single family and the two family residential

1518
01:17:23,939 --> 01:17:27,560
sites or owners would only need to come in for trees if

1519
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:30,439
they want to remove trees that are over five inches.

1520
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:33,939
And that permit would be a complimentary permit from the

1521
01:17:33,939 --> 01:17:37,189
city, but it would give us an opportunity to consult with

1522
01:17:37,189 --> 01:17:40,779
them and maybe identify other options to accomplish their

1523
01:17:40,779 --> 01:17:41,439
goals.

1524
01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:47,079
We also want to base the minimum preservation on existing

1525
01:17:47,079 --> 01:17:52,970
tree canopy instead of the diameter at breast height inches

1526
01:17:52,970 --> 01:17:53,439
.

1527
01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:57,439
So that's an improvement over the existing code.

1528
01:17:57,439 --> 01:18:01,340
And we want to establish a flat mitigation ratio for tree

1529
01:18:01,340 --> 01:18:06,180
removal of a one to four ratio instead of right now I think

1530
01:18:06,180 --> 01:18:12,439
we range from zero to about 1.25.

1531
01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:14,439
Got it.

1532
01:18:14,439 --> 01:18:18,199
And then finally, base the tree farm payment on the fair

1533
01:18:18,199 --> 01:18:22,119
market value of materials and labor at the time of planting

1534
01:18:22,119 --> 01:18:22,439
.

1535
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:26,270
And this would also include the cost of irrigation and

1536
01:18:26,270 --> 01:18:30,359
maintenance to get the tree established for, I guess, on

1537
01:18:30,359 --> 01:18:33,439
average, a time period of about three years.

1538
01:18:38,439 --> 01:18:39,829
Under preservation incentives, we're proposing to allow

1539
01:18:39,829 --> 01:18:46,439
tree canopy to count towards landscape canopy requirements.

1540
01:18:46,439 --> 01:18:49,439
So a tree is a tree on the site.

1541
01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:52,970
And we're offering a one to two credit for preserving

1542
01:18:52,970 --> 01:18:56,649
heritage trees that would count towards the landscape

1543
01:18:56,649 --> 01:18:58,439
canopy requirements.

1544
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:04,520
And then the last bullet is actually a current incentive in

1545
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:09,439
the existing code to allow for modification in parking lot

1546
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:12,850
and subdivision designs when trees are preserved over the

1547
01:19:12,850 --> 01:19:14,439
minimum required.

1548
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:23,850
So we measured our proposal for the tree code update

1549
01:19:23,850 --> 01:19:28,439
against the city's guidance documents.

1550
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:32,649
And as far as the comprehensive plan is concerned, the

1551
01:19:32,649 --> 01:19:35,750
proposed revisions support the following goals and

1552
01:19:35,750 --> 01:19:38,439
objectives of the DIN Plan 2030.

1553
01:19:38,439 --> 01:19:41,800
And I won't read through those, but they're on the screen

1554
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:42,439
for you.

1555
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:46,449
The first goal is from the parks conservation and

1556
01:19:46,449 --> 01:19:48,439
environmental goal.

1557
01:19:48,439 --> 01:19:53,100
And then under that is an action item that aligns with that

1558
01:19:53,100 --> 01:19:53,439
.

1559
01:19:56,439 --> 01:19:59,560
And then when we looked at the DIN strategic plan, we

1560
01:19:59,560 --> 01:20:03,460
identified that the proposed revisions most closely align

1561
01:20:03,460 --> 01:20:07,979
with the key focus area of sustainable and environmental

1562
01:20:07,979 --> 01:20:08,439
stewardship.

1563
01:20:08,439 --> 01:20:12,199
And then the goal to manage land use and preserve open and

1564
01:20:12,199 --> 01:20:13,439
natural space.

1565
01:20:13,439 --> 01:20:18,319
So with all of those considerations, staff is recommending

1566
01:20:18,319 --> 01:20:23,090
approval of this update and I will open it up for questions

1567
01:20:23,090 --> 01:20:23,439
.

1568
01:20:26,439 --> 01:20:27,439
Commissioner Bruegel.

1569
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:28,439
Chair.

1570
01:20:28,439 --> 01:20:31,439
I've got a couple of questions on the exemptions list.

1571
01:20:31,439 --> 01:20:32,439
Okay.

1572
01:20:34,439 --> 01:20:38,439
One noted exemption was for agriculture uses.

1573
01:20:38,439 --> 01:20:41,909
My question with that is specific to a case that we saw

1574
01:20:41,909 --> 01:20:45,439
recently in the corner of Windsor and Hinkle.

1575
01:20:45,439 --> 01:20:48,720
There's like a big data retirement community that we had

1576
01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:50,439
approved a few months ago.

1577
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:54,439
What, 15, 20 years ago, that was a forest.

1578
01:20:54,439 --> 01:20:57,340
And I had asked, Julie may remember this because she

1579
01:20:57,340 --> 01:21:00,609
brought back all these pictures of this dwindling forest to

1580
01:21:00,609 --> 01:21:03,439
the point where it's now just, it's a field.

1581
01:21:03,439 --> 01:21:08,649
And I recall maybe four or five years ago, there were some

1582
01:21:08,649 --> 01:21:12,439
post oaks on that property that were all removed.

1583
01:21:12,439 --> 01:21:15,199
And as far as city staff could tell when I was requesting

1584
01:21:15,199 --> 01:21:17,789
information about that particular case, there were no

1585
01:21:17,789 --> 01:21:18,439
penalties about that.

1586
01:21:18,439 --> 01:21:22,100
Because what they did was for the next couple of years, use

1587
01:21:22,100 --> 01:21:24,439
that field for agricultural uses.

1588
01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:25,439
Right.

1589
01:21:25,439 --> 01:21:27,439
But they just ended up flipping it.

1590
01:21:27,439 --> 01:21:29,439
And now there's going to be a development there.

1591
01:21:29,439 --> 01:21:32,569
And there was no penalty whatsoever for removing the

1592
01:21:32,569 --> 01:21:35,439
hundreds of trees over the last decade or so.

1593
01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:36,439
Right.

1594
01:21:36,439 --> 01:21:38,279
And especially those last few post oaks that were remaining

1595
01:21:38,279 --> 01:21:38,439
.

1596
01:21:38,439 --> 01:21:43,439
So can you talk to me more about these agriculture uses?

1597
01:21:43,439 --> 01:21:46,260
Like what is the length of time that that property must be

1598
01:21:46,260 --> 01:21:49,069
used for agriculture before it can be turned into a gated

1599
01:21:49,069 --> 01:21:50,439
retirement community?

1600
01:21:50,439 --> 01:21:52,439
Or even type of development?

1601
01:21:52,439 --> 01:21:54,439
Yeah, can we just talk a little bit more about that?

1602
01:21:54,439 --> 01:21:56,279
And then I've got another question about the exemptions too

1603
01:21:56,279 --> 01:21:56,439
.

1604
01:21:56,439 --> 01:22:01,340
Okay. The ag use exemption is basically a state requirement

1605
01:22:01,340 --> 01:22:01,439
.

1606
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:05,670
And we don't really have a lot of leverage when it comes to

1607
01:22:05,670 --> 01:22:07,439
exempting that use.

1608
01:22:07,439 --> 01:22:13,439
The exemption, I believe, is in effect for five years.

1609
01:22:13,439 --> 01:22:16,520
Well, it has to be ag for five years to qualify for the

1610
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:17,439
exemption.

1611
01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:19,439
To qualify for the exemption.

1612
01:22:19,439 --> 01:22:22,600
So once they've designated as agricultural use, it needs to

1613
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:24,439
be in that state for five years.

1614
01:22:24,439 --> 01:22:27,789
And that's a state law? So anyone could really cut down a

1615
01:22:27,789 --> 01:22:29,609
bunch of trees and then just turn it into a corn field for

1616
01:22:29,609 --> 01:22:31,439
a couple of years and then anyone can do that.

1617
01:22:31,439 --> 01:22:32,439
And that's at the state level.

1618
01:22:32,439 --> 01:22:33,439
Yes.

1619
01:22:33,439 --> 01:22:34,439
Well, that stinks. Okay.

1620
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:39,439
My next question is about the residential permits.

1621
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:44,460
So am I to understand that if someone wanted to like build

1622
01:22:44,460 --> 01:22:49,970
a back porch or expand a kitchen window or add on to their

1623
01:22:49,970 --> 01:22:51,439
driveway or something like that,

1624
01:22:51,439 --> 01:22:53,770
and that would require the removal of a healthy tree, that

1625
01:22:53,770 --> 01:22:55,880
they would then need to go to the city to get a permit for

1626
01:22:55,880 --> 01:22:56,439
that?

1627
01:22:56,439 --> 01:22:59,439
Yes. And actually that would already be under review

1628
01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:02,439
because our urban forester reviews those other permits.

1629
01:23:02,439 --> 01:23:05,439
So it would be already a consideration.

1630
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:09,359
Okay. And what about a tree that's not dead yet, but it's

1631
01:23:09,359 --> 01:23:12,289
dying? It might be a risk to my property or to people

1632
01:23:12,289 --> 01:23:13,439
walking on the street.

1633
01:23:13,439 --> 01:23:15,439
Would I need a permit to remove the tree then?

1634
01:23:15,439 --> 01:23:18,439
If it's over five acres, then yes.

1635
01:23:18,439 --> 01:23:20,439
Okay. And what is the cost of that?

1636
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:23,439
That would be a complimentary permit. So no cost.

1637
01:23:23,439 --> 01:23:26,439
Okay. But it's just a way for the city to be able to track

1638
01:23:26,439 --> 01:23:27,439
essentially what's going on.

1639
01:23:27,439 --> 01:23:28,439
Yes.

1640
01:23:28,439 --> 01:23:29,439
All right. Thanks.

1641
01:23:29,439 --> 01:23:32,560
So that when we get a call, like this tree has come down or

1642
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:35,060
a tree is coming down, what's going on, we would already

1643
01:23:35,060 --> 01:23:37,979
know through our track kit system that there was a

1644
01:23:37,979 --> 01:23:40,439
complimentary permit issued for this reason.

1645
01:23:40,439 --> 01:23:43,479
And the property owner, so the property owner would be

1646
01:23:43,479 --> 01:23:46,699
responsible for getting that or the tree removal company

1647
01:23:46,699 --> 01:23:49,880
that's taking care of it, or they could do it on the behalf

1648
01:23:49,880 --> 01:23:51,439
of the property owner.

1649
01:23:51,439 --> 01:23:53,439
Okay. Thank you.

1650
01:23:53,439 --> 01:23:54,439
Okay.

1651
01:23:54,439 --> 01:23:55,439
Commissioner Beck.

1652
01:23:55,439 --> 01:24:22,439
[inaudible]

1653
01:24:22,439 --> 01:24:27,220
Okay. And those are actually speaking to two separate

1654
01:24:27,220 --> 01:24:29,439
incentives that we are proposing to offer in the code.

1655
01:24:29,439 --> 01:24:32,479
And I'm actually going to ask Nona Elaine Muncie to come up

1656
01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:34,439
and explain the landscape part.

1657
01:24:34,439 --> 01:24:35,439
Okay.

1658
01:24:35,439 --> 01:24:36,439
She's the resident expert.

1659
01:24:36,439 --> 01:24:41,439
Okay.

1660
01:24:41,439 --> 01:24:45,319
I'm Nona Elaine Muncie. The landscape code is in addition

1661
01:24:45,319 --> 01:24:46,439
to the tree code.

1662
01:24:46,439 --> 01:24:49,909
The tree code has to be met first and that's in inches. The

1663
01:24:49,909 --> 01:24:52,439
landscape code is in canopy coverage.

1664
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:55,840
We are proposing to have a total tree canopy where you

1665
01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:59,439
preserve the number of trees that you're required.

1666
01:24:59,439 --> 01:25:03,140
Any additional trees may go toward what's required by the

1667
01:25:03,140 --> 01:25:04,439
landscape code.

1668
01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:07,399
Sometimes there's not enough room to plant trees back on

1669
01:25:07,399 --> 01:25:09,439
site and that's where we're going.

1670
01:25:09,439 --> 01:25:15,439
Okay.

1671
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:19,100
And did she have any questions about the parking lot

1672
01:25:19,100 --> 01:25:20,439
modification?

1673
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:23,439
That's basically, it's not to reduce the number of spaces,

1674
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:28,409
but rather to allow the design, the layout of the park and

1675
01:25:28,409 --> 01:25:30,439
to vary to preserve trees.

1676
01:25:30,439 --> 01:25:31,439
To preserve trees.

1677
01:25:31,439 --> 01:25:32,439
Yes.

1678
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:33,439
Okay.

1679
01:25:33,439 --> 01:25:36,439
Thank you.

1680
01:25:36,439 --> 01:25:37,439
Commissioner Bruegel.

1681
01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:39,439
Thank you.

1682
01:25:39,439 --> 01:25:46,210
So a question for staff is are we, we're looking at either

1683
01:25:46,210 --> 01:25:52,439
approving or rejecting these proposed changes.

1684
01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:55,210
Are we going to get a chance to see the final ordinance

1685
01:25:55,210 --> 01:25:57,439
before we pass that on to city council?

1686
01:25:57,439 --> 01:25:58,439
What happens next?

1687
01:25:58,439 --> 01:26:00,850
Because I would like to see how it all lays out and

1688
01:26:00,850 --> 01:26:02,439
language and definitions.

1689
01:26:02,439 --> 01:26:04,479
I'm kind of channeling Commissioner Bentley here like I don

1690
01:26:04,479 --> 01:26:06,449
't want to send something on to city council without being

1691
01:26:06,449 --> 01:26:07,439
able to read it first.

1692
01:26:07,439 --> 01:26:10,829
So where, so what happens at this point once we vote on

1693
01:26:10,829 --> 01:26:11,439
this?

1694
01:26:11,439 --> 01:26:13,439
Actually the proposed language is in the backup.

1695
01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:14,439
It's in your backup.

1696
01:26:14,439 --> 01:26:17,439
And that's what we'll get adopted by council.

1697
01:26:17,439 --> 01:26:22,260
The ordinance itself is more of the legal terms that we

1698
01:26:22,260 --> 01:26:25,439
need to proceed the actual text.

1699
01:26:25,439 --> 01:26:27,439
I'm so sorry I missed that.

1700
01:26:27,439 --> 01:26:28,439
Yes, I see it.

1701
01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:29,439
My apologies.

1702
01:26:29,439 --> 01:26:30,439
No problem.

1703
01:26:30,439 --> 01:26:31,439
Okay, thank you.

1704
01:26:31,439 --> 01:26:32,439
I look like a fool.

1705
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:34,439
All right.

1706
01:26:34,439 --> 01:26:35,439
Commissioner Taylor.

1707
01:26:35,439 --> 01:26:36,439
Thank you, Chair.

1708
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:39,350
I also had trouble finding the backup because it's labeled

1709
01:26:39,350 --> 01:26:42,600
proposed amendments, not revised ordinance or something

1710
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:43,439
like that.

1711
01:26:43,439 --> 01:26:47,439
So I'm actually just reading through it now.

1712
01:26:47,439 --> 01:26:52,439
I had some questions on some mitigation.

1713
01:26:52,439 --> 01:26:56,359
Now all fees will be set in a criteria manual so it can be

1714
01:26:56,359 --> 01:26:59,439
more readily updated as costs shift.

1715
01:26:59,439 --> 01:27:00,439
Is that?

1716
01:27:00,439 --> 01:27:02,439
Oh, do you mean the tree fund payment?

1717
01:27:02,439 --> 01:27:05,439
Yeah, under the mitigation section.

1718
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:06,439
Okay.

1719
01:27:06,439 --> 01:27:08,439
Is that correct?

1720
01:27:08,439 --> 01:27:10,439
I'm sorry, can you repeat the question?

1721
01:27:10,439 --> 01:27:15,439
Yeah, so mitigation costs will now be in a criteria manual?

1722
01:27:15,439 --> 01:27:19,270
No, those costs get established by city council by the

1723
01:27:19,270 --> 01:27:23,439
whole, the review fee ordinance that they would act on.

1724
01:27:23,439 --> 01:27:27,439
Is that an annual process or every fund?

1725
01:27:27,439 --> 01:27:32,439
Well, we have a fee schedule that's adopted by ordinance.

1726
01:27:32,439 --> 01:27:35,439
And now and again, we do have to amend it.

1727
01:27:35,439 --> 01:27:38,159
It's typical to evaluate it once a year and make sure that

1728
01:27:38,159 --> 01:27:42,800
your fees are consistent with other communities when you

1729
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:43,439
benchmark.

1730
01:27:43,439 --> 01:27:46,399
And if there's some errors or there's some other fees that

1731
01:27:46,399 --> 01:27:49,439
need to be added, that's when we use that opportunity.

1732
01:27:49,439 --> 01:27:54,119
And I noticed there, so you can do on-site mitigation or on

1733
01:27:54,119 --> 01:27:58,439
-site credit, whatever that's called if it's not mitigation.

1734
01:27:58,439 --> 01:28:00,439
Can you do off-site mitigation?

1735
01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:03,439
Can you say, I'm doing a 40-acre development over here.

1736
01:28:03,439 --> 01:28:06,560
I've got 10 acres on the other side of town that I will

1737
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:09,880
preserve, you know, put an easement on or something like

1738
01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:10,439
that.

1739
01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:12,760
I don't believe that that's currently included in the

1740
01:28:12,760 --> 01:28:13,439
ordinance.

1741
01:28:13,439 --> 01:28:18,250
The only off-site mitigation that is allowed for is through

1742
01:28:18,250 --> 01:28:22,590
the tree fund at this point to make the contributions to

1743
01:28:22,590 --> 01:28:25,439
the tree fund through the payments in lieu.

1744
01:28:25,439 --> 01:28:28,439
If I'm not correct, okay.

1745
01:28:28,439 --> 01:28:31,319
>> And the intent of that was to make sure that the canopy

1746
01:28:31,319 --> 01:28:35,460
cover is enhanced, retained, maintained for whatever reason

1747
01:28:35,460 --> 01:28:36,439
specific to the site so

1748
01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:40,220
that you had a domino effect as it comes to enhancing that

1749
01:28:40,220 --> 01:28:43,439
canopy cover and making sure that if you had a corridor,

1750
01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:43,439
for instance,

1751
01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:46,670
that was being revitalized that you had that opportunity

1752
01:28:46,670 --> 01:28:48,439
there, just as an example.

1753
01:28:48,439 --> 01:28:51,939
The off-site requirement then can become, sometimes you can

1754
01:28:51,939 --> 01:28:55,439
't do it through deed restriction or what have you anyway.

1755
01:28:55,439 --> 01:28:59,439
So it would compromise other developability potentially.

1756
01:28:59,439 --> 01:29:05,439
>> Yeah, so the last revision was 2007, is that correct?

1757
01:29:05,439 --> 01:29:06,439
>> 2004.

1758
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:07,439
>> 2004.

1759
01:29:07,439 --> 01:29:11,449
So in the 2004 revisions, I believe there was a provision

1760
01:29:11,449 --> 01:29:14,439
where you could off-site.

1761
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:18,449
And there were some ideas that never really got rolling,

1762
01:29:18,449 --> 01:29:23,100
but they were to basically take areas that are heavily wood

1763
01:29:23,100 --> 01:29:23,439
ed,

1764
01:29:23,439 --> 01:29:26,439
but not necessarily prime real estate development projects.

1765
01:29:26,439 --> 01:29:30,720
But the owner could want to preserve it and allocate 100

1766
01:29:30,720 --> 01:29:33,569
acres and then basically sell it piece by piece to

1767
01:29:33,569 --> 01:29:34,439
developers.

1768
01:29:34,439 --> 01:29:37,840
And so whenever they've mitigated their 100 acres, there's

1769
01:29:37,840 --> 01:29:40,439
100 acres that are permanently preserved.

1770
01:29:40,439 --> 01:29:43,619
And it would perhaps be in a different neighborhood, but

1771
01:29:43,619 --> 01:29:46,310
tree fund monies will also be spent in a different

1772
01:29:46,310 --> 01:29:47,439
neighborhood.

1773
01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:48,439
>> Yes.

1774
01:29:48,439 --> 01:29:53,439
I thought that was a really novel and a good method.

1775
01:29:53,439 --> 01:29:56,869
Instead of replanting a bunch of two inch trees that in 50

1776
01:29:56,869 --> 01:29:58,439
years will create shade,

1777
01:29:58,439 --> 01:30:04,310
we could preserve existing timber, existing canopy cover

1778
01:30:04,310 --> 01:30:07,439
that exists inside the city.

1779
01:30:07,439 --> 01:30:09,439
>> Okay.

1780
01:30:09,439 --> 01:30:10,439
>> And we have one of two options.

1781
01:30:10,439 --> 01:30:13,050
One is, and Commissioner Bruegel, you had asked, do we have

1782
01:30:13,050 --> 01:30:14,439
to approve this or deny this?

1783
01:30:14,439 --> 01:30:16,439
You have the option to postpone the item.

1784
01:30:16,439 --> 01:30:19,449
You have the option to approve it with specific conditions

1785
01:30:19,449 --> 01:30:20,439
or parameters.

1786
01:30:20,439 --> 01:30:22,550
So you have those opportunities available to yourselves if

1787
01:30:22,550 --> 01:30:25,439
you want to add some conditions or considerations to what's

1788
01:30:25,439 --> 01:30:25,439
before you

1789
01:30:25,439 --> 01:30:34,439
and you'd like for it to go to council, we can do that too.

1790
01:30:34,439 --> 01:30:36,439
>> I have a couple questions.

1791
01:30:36,439 --> 01:30:39,439
On the tree fund, I know there's been a lot paid in.

1792
01:30:39,439 --> 01:30:43,449
Do we have any information on how much money that has been

1793
01:30:43,449 --> 01:30:46,439
spent that's come out of the tree fund?

1794
01:30:46,439 --> 01:30:58,439
>> I'm going to ask Haley to address that.

1795
01:30:58,439 --> 01:31:00,439
>> Okay, I'm going just off of memory here.

1796
01:31:00,439 --> 01:31:04,640
But for the current fiscal year, if I'm not mistaken, for

1797
01:31:04,640 --> 01:31:07,439
tree planting specifically through parks,

1798
01:31:07,439 --> 01:31:13,060
we have allocated just over $500,000 for new plantings in

1799
01:31:13,060 --> 01:31:14,439
public areas.

1800
01:31:14,439 --> 01:31:18,670
There's also been an allocation that was approved through K

1801
01:31:18,670 --> 01:31:21,439
DB for the Denton Tree Initiatives.

1802
01:31:21,439 --> 01:31:26,109
I can't remember the exact dollar figures on those programs

1803
01:31:26,109 --> 01:31:26,439
.

1804
01:31:26,439 --> 01:31:30,970
But they included the tree rebate program, the trees mean

1805
01:31:30,970 --> 01:31:34,439
business, which is trees for existing businesses

1806
01:31:34,439 --> 01:31:38,100
where they actually will go out and plant the tree for the

1807
01:31:38,100 --> 01:31:39,439
business owner.

1808
01:31:39,439 --> 01:31:42,699
They have to submit a business proposal on how they're

1809
01:31:42,699 --> 01:31:44,439
going to maintain the trees.

1810
01:31:44,439 --> 01:31:47,569
And then there's starting this fall, there'll be a

1811
01:31:47,569 --> 01:31:49,439
neighborhood tree giveaway,

1812
01:31:49,439 --> 01:31:53,449
which the idea is to actually have the neighborhood

1813
01:31:53,449 --> 01:31:57,439
organize their tree giveaway for their residents.

1814
01:31:57,439 --> 01:32:00,680
And the trees will be delivered on site and they can

1815
01:32:00,680 --> 01:32:04,520
distribute the trees to those individuals that have space

1816
01:32:04,520 --> 01:32:06,439
for planting new trees.

1817
01:32:06,439 --> 01:32:08,439
>> Do you remember how much is in the tree fund?

1818
01:32:08,439 --> 01:32:12,130
How much has been paid in versus what we've spent out of it

1819
01:32:12,130 --> 01:32:12,439
?

1820
01:32:12,439 --> 01:32:15,439
Off the top of your head, it's great.

1821
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:20,039
>> Paid into the tree fund, I want to say it probably has

1822
01:32:20,039 --> 01:32:23,439
to be close to $3 million right now.

1823
01:32:23,439 --> 01:32:31,560
Paid out, I would say probably around $150,000, $200,000,

1824
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:34,439
just rough guessing without looking at the numbers.

1825
01:32:34,439 --> 01:32:35,439
>> Okay.

1826
01:32:35,439 --> 01:32:38,439
A lot's gone in and not a lot so far.

1827
01:32:38,439 --> 01:32:39,439
>> Right, yeah.

1828
01:32:39,439 --> 01:32:43,819
We just started, just received approval to start utilizing

1829
01:32:43,819 --> 01:32:45,439
that fund last spring.

1830
01:32:45,439 --> 01:32:49,439
And so, you know, that was kind of midway the year.

1831
01:32:49,439 --> 01:32:53,510
And so the idea is now that we'll have regular allocations

1832
01:32:53,510 --> 01:32:58,739
of fundings to go towards tree plantings from now on into

1833
01:32:58,739 --> 01:33:01,439
the future as long as there's funding available.

1834
01:33:01,439 --> 01:33:02,439
>> Okay.

1835
01:33:02,439 --> 01:33:03,439
Second question.

1836
01:33:03,439 --> 01:33:07,810
In the past, the tree code, I think single individual lots,

1837
01:33:07,810 --> 01:33:11,439
individual property owners' lots were exempt.

1838
01:33:11,439 --> 01:33:15,670
Has there been an issue in some kind of compliance or a lot

1839
01:33:15,670 --> 01:33:19,439
of trees being cut down as to now we want to include

1840
01:33:19,439 --> 01:33:22,909
individual property owners that you can't go cut down a

1841
01:33:22,909 --> 01:33:25,439
tree on your own property without getting a permit?

1842
01:33:25,439 --> 01:33:28,569
>> Well, even for single family lots, whenever I review

1843
01:33:28,569 --> 01:33:31,909
those plans, you know, and most people that are building

1844
01:33:31,909 --> 01:33:35,390
the house, they want to save as many of the trees on site

1845
01:33:35,390 --> 01:33:36,439
as they can.

1846
01:33:36,439 --> 01:33:41,479
The main thing is for houses that are already built where

1847
01:33:41,479 --> 01:33:44,970
someone wants to remove trees, having that permit

1848
01:33:44,970 --> 01:33:47,069
requirement, as Sandra mentioned earlier, gives me the

1849
01:33:47,069 --> 01:33:49,920
opportunity to talk to them and find out what's really the

1850
01:33:49,920 --> 01:33:50,439
issue.

1851
01:33:50,439 --> 01:33:53,699
Because sometimes the issue that they're having can be

1852
01:33:53,699 --> 01:33:57,250
remedied a lot less expensive than actually having someone

1853
01:33:57,250 --> 01:33:58,439
cut down a tree.

1854
01:33:58,439 --> 01:34:01,789
Depending on the size of the tree, you can easily spend a

1855
01:34:01,789 --> 01:34:05,100
couple thousand dollars depending on the location and

1856
01:34:05,100 --> 01:34:08,439
obstacles that the contractor has to work around.

1857
01:34:08,439 --> 01:34:11,390
In some cases, the tree really just needs a good pruning,

1858
01:34:11,390 --> 01:34:14,439
and it'll really solve the issues that they're having.

1859
01:34:14,439 --> 01:34:17,470
So it's really that opportunity for me to interact with

1860
01:34:17,470 --> 01:34:20,350
them to find out what the issue is and maybe find them a

1861
01:34:20,350 --> 01:34:22,439
more cost-effective solution.

1862
01:34:22,439 --> 01:34:25,659
>> Okay, but they would, under this, they would have to

1863
01:34:25,659 --> 01:34:28,810
come get a permit, and if they decided they do want to cut

1864
01:34:28,810 --> 01:34:32,010
down some trees for whatever reason it is, then they're

1865
01:34:32,010 --> 01:34:34,250
going to be subject to this as far as either having to

1866
01:34:34,250 --> 01:34:36,439
mitigate those or pay into the tree fund.

1867
01:34:36,439 --> 01:34:37,439
>> No.

1868
01:34:37,439 --> 01:34:38,439
>> They're exempt from mitigation.

1869
01:34:38,439 --> 01:34:39,439
>> Right.

1870
01:34:39,439 --> 01:34:40,439
>> And paying into the tree.

1871
01:34:40,439 --> 01:34:43,010
We're using this as a value-add service so that our

1872
01:34:43,010 --> 01:34:45,930
community gets to know our urban foresters, so that our

1873
01:34:45,930 --> 01:34:48,569
community gets to understand the ordinances that are in

1874
01:34:48,569 --> 01:34:50,439
place and to involve our community.

1875
01:34:50,439 --> 01:34:53,970
And it also becomes a bit of a quantitative research tool

1876
01:34:53,970 --> 01:34:57,420
for us to know what's going on with our canopy cover as we

1877
01:34:57,420 --> 01:35:01,439
get more built out, we'll have an opportunity to see that.

1878
01:35:01,439 --> 01:35:04,770
So oftentimes, Haywood gets a call, you know, I have a tree

1879
01:35:04,770 --> 01:35:07,439
and I want to cut it down, or my tree is dead.

1880
01:35:07,439 --> 01:35:10,470
And Haywood has the opportunity to visit with them and

1881
01:35:10,470 --> 01:35:13,689
explain actually what, if the tree is indeed diseased or

1882
01:35:13,689 --> 01:35:15,439
the tree is a safety issue.

1883
01:35:15,439 --> 01:35:17,510
We had that just a couple of weeks ago where there was a

1884
01:35:17,510 --> 01:35:19,670
hazardous tree and we knew we had to get it down, but the

1885
01:35:19,670 --> 01:35:22,439
homeowners, well, I really like this shade.

1886
01:35:22,439 --> 01:35:25,350
But Haywood had to explain, well, look at the consequences,

1887
01:35:25,350 --> 01:35:26,439
what could happen.

1888
01:35:26,439 --> 01:35:29,020
So we want to use this as a value-add, but there is no

1889
01:35:29,020 --> 01:35:31,439
mitigation or penalty associated with that.

1890
01:35:31,439 --> 01:35:33,439
>> And so all they have to do then is fill out a permit and

1891
01:35:33,439 --> 01:35:35,439
they can take it down and they don't have to pay it.

1892
01:35:35,439 --> 01:35:37,439
>> And it's a complimentary permit, yes.

1893
01:35:37,439 --> 01:35:40,869
>> Even under the current code, the way the language states

1894
01:35:40,869 --> 01:35:44,149
in this is not really pinned down well, but a homeowner is

1895
01:35:44,149 --> 01:35:47,439
allowed to remove up to five trees without a permit.

1896
01:35:47,439 --> 01:35:51,000
So if they're removing 10 trees or 12 trees, they have to

1897
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:53,909
come in for a permit and it's at a cost under the current

1898
01:35:53,909 --> 01:35:54,439
code.

1899
01:35:54,439 --> 01:35:58,279
So it's really just to have that added point of contact to

1900
01:35:58,279 --> 01:36:00,439
see what's really going on.

1901
01:36:00,439 --> 01:36:01,439
>> Great, thank you.

1902
01:36:01,439 --> 01:36:03,439
>> Yeah.

1903
01:36:03,439 --> 01:36:04,439
>> Commissioner Haps.

1904
01:36:04,439 --> 01:36:05,439
>> Yeah.

1905
01:36:05,439 --> 01:36:06,439
>> Commissioner Rossell.

1906
01:36:06,439 --> 01:36:09,630
>> This might be a question for Haywood, but just so I

1907
01:36:09,630 --> 01:36:12,930
understand the tree fund, there's new trees planted on

1908
01:36:12,930 --> 01:36:14,439
Southlake's Rain Trail.

1909
01:36:14,439 --> 01:36:18,350
Is that what the tree fund's used for, like to go plant

1910
01:36:18,350 --> 01:36:20,439
trees at parks and stuff?

1911
01:36:20,439 --> 01:36:24,760
>> Yes, currently the tree code can be used to plant trees

1912
01:36:24,760 --> 01:36:27,439
on public and private property.

1913
01:36:27,439 --> 01:36:29,840
The amendment to allow on private property was just done

1914
01:36:29,840 --> 01:36:32,689
last year and that's how we're able to do the various

1915
01:36:32,689 --> 01:36:35,439
programs that we're funding through KDB.

1916
01:36:35,439 --> 01:36:38,779
But those in Southlake's parks are definitely funded

1917
01:36:38,779 --> 01:36:40,439
through the tree fund.

1918
01:36:40,439 --> 01:36:44,720
>> Okay. >> So parks, any city-owned properties, any public

1919
01:36:44,720 --> 01:36:45,439
properties basically.

1920
01:36:45,439 --> 01:36:46,439
>> Gotcha, thank you.

1921
01:36:46,439 --> 01:36:48,439
>> Commissioner Hapsbeth.

1922
01:36:48,439 --> 01:36:49,439
>> Thank you, Chair.

1923
01:36:49,439 --> 01:36:53,840
So I'm curious, those funds are those, the tree in and of

1924
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:58,180
itself or trees and the maintenance to put it in, the water

1925
01:36:58,180 --> 01:36:58,439
?

1926
01:36:58,439 --> 01:37:02,550
Is it everything around putting the tree in, maintaining

1927
01:37:02,550 --> 01:37:03,439
the tree?

1928
01:37:03,439 --> 01:37:04,439
>> Yes.

1929
01:37:04,439 --> 01:37:05,439
>> Okay, got it.

1930
01:37:05,439 --> 01:37:09,439
Thank you.

1931
01:37:09,439 --> 01:37:11,439
>> Commissioner Tyler.

1932
01:37:11,439 --> 01:37:14,340
>> So a couple of follow up questions regarding the single

1933
01:37:14,340 --> 01:37:15,439
family dwelling.

1934
01:37:15,439 --> 01:37:17,439
>> Okay.

1935
01:37:17,439 --> 01:37:20,439
>> I was just reading that clause and I lost it.

1936
01:37:20,439 --> 01:37:22,680
Is it possible to, it doesn't seem to have any kind of acre

1937
01:37:22,680 --> 01:37:24,439
age requirement or anything like that.

1938
01:37:24,439 --> 01:37:28,350
So if I own 500 acres and I have a house on it, I can come

1939
01:37:28,350 --> 01:37:33,439
apply for a permit to remove trees and that's free.

1940
01:37:33,439 --> 01:37:34,439
>> Yes.

1941
01:37:34,439 --> 01:37:38,449
>> And then I can remove all the trees I need to remove and

1942
01:37:38,449 --> 01:37:41,439
then I can do whatever I want with that land afterward.

1943
01:37:41,439 --> 01:37:42,439
Is that correct?

1944
01:37:42,439 --> 01:37:43,439
>> Yes.

1945
01:37:43,439 --> 01:37:47,159
>> And so this also goes back to the agricultural exemption

1946
01:37:47,159 --> 01:37:47,439
.

1947
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:52,460
The case at Windsor where those post oaks were removed,

1948
01:37:52,460 --> 01:37:56,439
they had to keep the land in agriculture for two years or

1949
01:37:56,439 --> 01:38:00,439
they would have to pay tree removal fees.

1950
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:04,489
I don't see any kind of clauses about a period of time or a

1951
01:38:04,489 --> 01:38:07,029
number of acres or anything like that in this ordinance at

1952
01:38:07,029 --> 01:38:07,439
all.

1953
01:38:07,439 --> 01:38:10,340
So it seems like this is my hay field, I'm going to cut

1954
01:38:10,340 --> 01:38:11,439
down the trees.

1955
01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:14,979
October comes, now I'm ready to build houses because I cut

1956
01:38:14,979 --> 01:38:16,439
my hay in September.

1957
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:23,140
So I feel like we know that whatever the limits of the

1958
01:38:23,140 --> 01:38:27,439
words of the law are, those cases are going to occur.

1959
01:38:27,439 --> 01:38:31,380
Because that's what's exactly happened, within a few months

1960
01:38:31,380 --> 01:38:35,439
of that two year clock, the plot came in.

1961
01:38:35,439 --> 01:38:38,439
And we see that all the time.

1962
01:38:38,439 --> 01:38:42,689
So I think I'm concerned about the little edges and the

1963
01:38:42,689 --> 01:38:46,439
little details of any lot with a single family home or

1964
01:38:46,439 --> 01:38:49,439
single or two family, I think is how it's worded.

1965
01:38:49,439 --> 01:38:52,439
And then no acreage requirements.

1966
01:38:52,439 --> 01:38:57,510
One of the ideas that we've been going back and forth on is

1967
01:38:57,510 --> 01:39:03,420
possibly instituting a rollback feature so that if after a

1968
01:39:03,420 --> 01:39:07,439
period of time it does get developed or it does change uses

1969
01:39:07,439 --> 01:39:10,439
, basically if they're using it as a loophole they will be

1970
01:39:10,439 --> 01:39:12,439
caught further down the line.

1971
01:39:12,439 --> 01:39:14,439
We can look into that further.

1972
01:39:14,439 --> 01:39:16,439
I think that's kind of what you're suggesting.

1973
01:39:16,439 --> 01:39:20,420
Yeah, either a rollback feature or hard limits on what,

1974
01:39:20,420 --> 01:39:24,350
like a single family home on less than an acre or less than

1975
01:39:24,350 --> 01:39:25,439
two acres.

1976
01:39:25,439 --> 01:39:27,439
I'm going to chime in just a second.

1977
01:39:27,439 --> 01:39:30,949
I think we need a clarification from staff about whether a

1978
01:39:30,949 --> 01:39:33,439
fine was paid on that property or not.

1979
01:39:33,439 --> 01:39:35,439
With regard to the property on Windsor, there was a fine.

1980
01:39:35,439 --> 01:39:37,439
They did cut down the trees without a permit.

1981
01:39:37,439 --> 01:39:40,439
They were required to have a permit for that.

1982
01:39:40,439 --> 01:39:43,590
Now, when we talk about do we need to create thresholds so

1983
01:39:43,590 --> 01:39:46,779
that we ensure that our mitigation parameters or someone

1984
01:39:46,779 --> 01:39:48,439
can't clear cut the site.

1985
01:39:48,439 --> 01:39:51,260
Obviously that still happens even when we have ordinances

1986
01:39:51,260 --> 01:39:53,890
in place where we say you cannot do this without a permit

1987
01:39:53,890 --> 01:39:56,510
and then they will go clear cut the site and say well, we

1988
01:39:56,510 --> 01:39:57,439
didn't know.

1989
01:39:57,439 --> 01:40:00,119
So we will regardless whether this ordinance, whether we

1990
01:40:00,119 --> 01:40:02,680
have thresholds or whether we keep the existing one, we

1991
01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:04,439
will continue to have that issue.

1992
01:40:04,439 --> 01:40:08,439
But we can try and stem that to a certain extent.

1993
01:40:08,439 --> 01:40:11,130
I think what Shandrin is alluding to after hearing you and

1994
01:40:11,130 --> 01:40:13,720
Commissioner Bruegel is perhaps we can create some

1995
01:40:13,720 --> 01:40:15,439
thresholds as it relates to,

1996
01:40:15,439 --> 01:40:20,460
should we do it by acreage and eliminate the fact of a use,

1997
01:40:20,460 --> 01:40:22,600
but then we've got the ag exemption issue as well that we

1998
01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:23,439
need to bring up.

1999
01:40:23,439 --> 01:40:25,439
I think Jennifer, you had raised your hand.

2000
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:25,439
Yes.

2001
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:28,710
Yeah, I just wanted to make a point that even though it is

2002
01:40:28,710 --> 01:40:32,020
state law, we are allowed to be more restrictive than state

2003
01:40:32,020 --> 01:40:32,439
law.

2004
01:40:32,439 --> 01:40:36,409
So we can add those limitations on it if that's what you

2005
01:40:36,409 --> 01:40:40,699
choose to do and you can suggest that our direct staff to

2006
01:40:40,699 --> 01:40:45,439
do that and then table the item and have it brought back.

2007
01:40:45,439 --> 01:40:46,439
Commissioner Rossell.

2008
01:40:46,439 --> 01:40:47,439
Thank you.

2009
01:40:47,439 --> 01:40:54,439
You mentioned a rollback, like a retroactive.

2010
01:40:54,439 --> 01:40:56,439
I don't know if that's a good idea.

2011
01:40:56,439 --> 01:40:58,439
I wouldn't be a proponent of that.

2012
01:40:58,439 --> 01:41:00,350
Because if I own property, I cleared it out for a good

2013
01:41:00,350 --> 01:41:02,579
reason, then for whatever reason, I had a hardship, I need

2014
01:41:02,579 --> 01:41:03,439
to sell the land.

2015
01:41:03,439 --> 01:41:05,949
I sell it, the bill comes in, they develop it, then it

2016
01:41:05,949 --> 01:41:09,609
looks like I purposely tried to make the system, which

2017
01:41:09,609 --> 01:41:12,460
might not be the case at all, but now I might actually have

2018
01:41:12,460 --> 01:41:13,439
a penalty.

2019
01:41:13,439 --> 01:41:17,399
So I don't know if the rollback is helpful if there was not

2020
01:41:17,399 --> 01:41:19,439
mal intent to begin with.

2021
01:41:19,439 --> 01:41:20,439
Okay.

2022
01:41:20,439 --> 01:41:22,439
Yeah, that's just one idea.

2023
01:41:22,439 --> 01:41:23,439
Yeah.

2024
01:41:23,439 --> 01:41:24,439
Commissioner Bruegel.

2025
01:41:24,439 --> 01:41:26,439
Thank you, Chair.

2026
01:41:26,439 --> 01:41:29,560
Going back again to that property on Windsor and Hinkle, I

2027
01:41:29,560 --> 01:41:34,600
recall, Munal, that we did talk about there were some fines

2028
01:41:34,600 --> 01:41:36,439
that were paid later.

2029
01:41:36,439 --> 01:41:40,859
But I also recall that whatever fines they paid were a

2030
01:41:40,859 --> 01:41:44,439
small fraction of what they should have been paying either

2031
01:41:44,439 --> 01:41:48,439
into the tree fund or whatever other mitigation.

2032
01:41:48,439 --> 01:41:50,439
It was tiny.

2033
01:41:50,439 --> 01:41:51,439
It was laughable.

2034
01:41:51,439 --> 01:41:54,109
And I want to make sure that we are preventing that so they

2035
01:41:54,109 --> 01:41:56,770
can't just be like, oops, I didn't know, and then just

2036
01:41:56,770 --> 01:41:58,439
write us a check for whatever.

2037
01:41:58,439 --> 01:42:03,350
There needs to be some sort of loophole protection system

2038
01:42:03,350 --> 01:42:04,439
in place.

2039
01:42:04,439 --> 01:42:07,659
And Commissioner Bruegel, I agree with you that the fine in

2040
01:42:07,659 --> 01:42:11,439
comparison to what came down, yes, there was no comparison.

2041
01:42:11,439 --> 01:42:12,439
I understand that.

2042
01:42:12,439 --> 01:42:16,100
However, we have to follow certain parameters as it relates

2043
01:42:16,100 --> 01:42:18,439
to citations and fines and procedure.

2044
01:42:18,439 --> 01:42:19,439
Right, Jennifer?

2045
01:42:19,439 --> 01:42:22,770
Well, let's make- A violation of this code would be a Class

2046
01:42:22,770 --> 01:42:23,439
C misdemeanor.

2047
01:42:23,439 --> 01:42:26,619
And so you're capped at $2,000 per violation, which

2048
01:42:26,619 --> 01:42:30,170
technically, if we calculate it correctly, you would think

2049
01:42:30,170 --> 01:42:32,439
that each tree would be a separate violation.

2050
01:42:32,439 --> 01:42:33,439
Right.

2051
01:42:33,439 --> 01:42:35,439
So that would be up to $2,000 for each tree removed.

2052
01:42:35,439 --> 01:42:36,439
Right.

2053
01:42:36,439 --> 01:42:39,000
And I just want to make sure that whatever penalties are

2054
01:42:39,000 --> 01:42:41,520
put in place for people who maybe didn't know the law or

2055
01:42:41,520 --> 01:42:46,069
maybe were trying to get around the law are more extreme

2056
01:42:46,069 --> 01:42:48,439
than what they would have been charged had they just

2057
01:42:48,439 --> 01:42:48,439
followed the law in the first place.

2058
01:42:48,439 --> 01:42:49,439
Does that make sense?

2059
01:42:49,439 --> 01:42:50,439
Yes, and we did.

2060
01:42:50,439 --> 01:42:51,439
We've done that with the-

2061
01:42:51,439 --> 01:42:55,869
We have, in the proposed ordinance, we are proposing stric

2062
01:42:55,869 --> 01:42:58,439
ter standards for violations.

2063
01:42:58,439 --> 01:42:59,439
Good.

2064
01:42:59,439 --> 01:43:01,439
Commissioner Beck?

2065
01:43:01,439 --> 01:43:02,439
Thank you, Chair.

2066
01:43:02,439 --> 01:43:06,779
Have we done anything to enhance our enforcement

2067
01:43:06,779 --> 01:43:08,439
capabilities?

2068
01:43:08,439 --> 01:43:09,439
Yes.

2069
01:43:09,439 --> 01:43:10,439
Such as?

2070
01:43:10,439 --> 01:43:11,439
Again-

2071
01:43:11,439 --> 01:43:13,439
Have we hired more people?

2072
01:43:13,439 --> 01:43:15,439
Oh, you mean-

2073
01:43:15,439 --> 01:43:16,439
Oh, that.

2074
01:43:16,439 --> 01:43:21,439
And staff laughs in unison, right?

2075
01:43:21,439 --> 01:43:23,439
Well, not in that sense.

2076
01:43:23,439 --> 01:43:25,439
We don't have more boots on the ground.

2077
01:43:25,439 --> 01:43:27,439
Haywood is our-

2078
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:28,439
Our boot.

2079
01:43:28,439 --> 01:43:30,439
He's our boot.

2080
01:43:30,439 --> 01:43:33,930
I think our first inclination would be to work with the

2081
01:43:33,930 --> 01:43:37,439
property owner to try to get it resolved, right?

2082
01:43:37,439 --> 01:43:38,439
I agree.

2083
01:43:38,439 --> 01:43:40,710
I mean, at the end of the day, you don't want to just

2084
01:43:40,710 --> 01:43:43,439
charge a fine if something can be done about it, right?

2085
01:43:43,439 --> 01:43:44,439
If they could mitigate it.

2086
01:43:44,439 --> 01:43:48,329
But what staff did and what I helped them with in this

2087
01:43:48,329 --> 01:43:53,439
particular change in this amendment, we sort of crafted the

2088
01:43:53,439 --> 01:43:56,779
language where it's a little bit stricter on when

2089
01:43:56,779 --> 01:44:00,439
violations are occurring because it was unclear in the

2090
01:44:00,439 --> 01:44:01,439
first code.

2091
01:44:01,439 --> 01:44:02,439
Yes.

2092
01:44:02,439 --> 01:44:06,319
And so now it's just clarified you will, if you violate

2093
01:44:06,319 --> 01:44:09,439
this section, be responsible this way.

2094
01:44:09,439 --> 01:44:14,510
And so we've really laid that out and now Haywood has an

2095
01:44:14,510 --> 01:44:20,260
option where if he has somebody who's really recalcitrant,

2096
01:44:20,260 --> 01:44:24,439
then he can go and give him the hard sell.

2097
01:44:24,439 --> 01:44:26,439
No.

2098
01:44:26,439 --> 01:44:28,439
But it's easier to enforce.

2099
01:44:28,439 --> 01:44:29,439
Sure.

2100
01:44:29,439 --> 01:44:30,439
Okay.

2101
01:44:30,439 --> 01:44:31,439
Thank you.

2102
01:44:31,439 --> 01:44:34,439
Okay.

2103
01:44:34,439 --> 01:44:39,439
Any other questions on this item?

2104
01:44:39,439 --> 01:44:40,439
Seeing none.

2105
01:44:40,439 --> 01:44:42,439
Thank you very much.

2106
01:44:42,439 --> 01:44:47,439
I'm going to close our work session at 622.

2107
01:44:47,439 --> 01:44:50,439
And hopefully we can reconvene as close to 630 as possible.

2108
01:44:50,439 --> 01:45:01,439
I think we're going to have a pretty full house tonight.

2109
01:45:01,439 --> 01:45:04,869
Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton Planning and

2110
01:45:04,869 --> 01:45:07,439
Zoning Commission for March 23rd.

2111
01:45:07,439 --> 01:45:11,619
It is 635 and our meeting has been duly posted and we do

2112
01:45:11,619 --> 01:45:15,380
have a quorum present and I call our meeting to order at

2113
01:45:15,380 --> 01:45:16,439
this time.

2114
01:45:16,439 --> 01:45:18,739
Our first order of business is to stand to give the pledge

2115
01:45:18,739 --> 01:45:24,439
to the U.S. and the Texas flag.

2116
01:45:24,439 --> 01:45:28,550
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of

2117
01:45:28,550 --> 01:45:33,380
America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation

2118
01:45:33,380 --> 01:45:40,439
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

2119
01:45:40,439 --> 01:45:56,329
I honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to the Texas,

2120
01:45:56,329 --> 01:45:57,439
one state under God, one individual.

2121
01:45:57,439 --> 01:45:59,439
I have one item that's not on our agenda.

2122
01:45:59,439 --> 01:46:01,439
I want to get out of the way first.

2123
01:46:01,439 --> 01:46:07,439
Is there a representative from Ignite here to speak?

2124
01:46:07,439 --> 01:46:10,439
If not, I'm just going to give them a shout out.

2125
01:46:10,439 --> 01:46:14,619
They are an organization from UNT and they're a nonprofit

2126
01:46:14,619 --> 01:46:18,920
organization that aims to empower and recruit women to run

2127
01:46:18,920 --> 01:46:21,439
and participate in politics.

2128
01:46:21,439 --> 01:46:24,439
So you are there. Great.

2129
01:46:24,439 --> 01:46:27,439
Well, a shout out to you guys. Thanks for coming.

2130
01:46:27,439 --> 01:46:31,720
Appreciate your support and being a part of our process

2131
01:46:31,720 --> 01:46:32,439
here.

2132
01:46:32,439 --> 01:46:40,489
The next item that is posted on our agenda is to consider

2133
01:46:40,489 --> 01:46:47,439
approval of our minutes for March the 9th.

2134
01:46:47,439 --> 01:46:51,439
The chair would entertain a motion on the minutes.

2135
01:46:51,439 --> 01:46:53,439
Commissioner Dudowitz.

2136
01:46:53,439 --> 01:46:55,439
I motion to approve the minutes.

2137
01:46:55,439 --> 01:46:56,439
Commissioner Beck.

2138
01:46:56,439 --> 01:46:57,439
Second.

2139
01:46:57,439 --> 01:47:01,439
I have a first and a second. Any discussion?

2140
01:47:01,439 --> 01:47:13,439
Seeing none, I call for a vote on the board.

2141
01:47:13,439 --> 01:47:17,439
Motion carries 7-0.

2142
01:47:17,439 --> 01:47:29,439
Our next item is our consent agenda.

2143
01:47:29,439 --> 01:47:30,439
Commissioner Dudowitz.

2144
01:47:30,439 --> 01:47:38,439
I motion to approve the consent agenda.

2145
01:47:38,439 --> 01:47:39,439
Commissioner Hussbuth.

2146
01:47:39,439 --> 01:47:41,439
Second.

2147
01:47:41,439 --> 01:47:46,439
I have a first and a second. Any discussion?

2148
01:47:46,439 --> 01:47:57,439
Seeing none, I call for a vote on the board.

2149
01:47:57,439 --> 01:48:07,439
Motion carries 7-0.

2150
01:48:07,439 --> 01:48:11,439
That moves us to our public hearing section.

2151
01:48:11,439 --> 01:48:15,869
At this time, I will open the public hearing for item A, AD

2152
01:48:15,869 --> 01:48:20,439
P 16-0002C.

2153
01:48:20,439 --> 01:48:32,399
I would ask the applicant to come forward and present your

2154
01:48:32,399 --> 01:48:37,439
project at this time.

2155
01:48:37,439 --> 01:48:39,439
Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

2156
01:48:39,439 --> 01:48:40,439
My name is Scott Radcliffe.

2157
01:48:40,439 --> 01:48:42,439
I'm with Radcliffe Engineering Services.

2158
01:48:42,439 --> 01:48:44,439
I'm representing Buc-E's.

2159
01:48:44,439 --> 01:49:04,439
I appreciate the opportunity to visit with you all today.

2160
01:49:04,439 --> 01:49:11,689
I just wanted to reiterate this is for the environmentally

2161
01:49:11,689 --> 01:49:14,439
sensitive area ADP,

2162
01:49:14,439 --> 01:49:16,920
alternative development plan for the 37 acres being

2163
01:49:16,920 --> 01:49:17,439
considered for Buc-E's development.

2164
01:49:17,439 --> 01:49:19,760
Just a little bit of background and snapshot on what the B

2165
01:49:19,760 --> 01:49:21,439
uc-E's program and what they offer to the community.

2166
01:49:21,439 --> 01:49:24,439
This particular project is going to bring in approximately

2167
01:49:24,439 --> 01:49:29,149
52,000 square foot facility, 92 fueling positions, about

2168
01:49:29,149 --> 01:49:31,439
150 jobs.

2169
01:49:31,439 --> 01:49:36,720
We are noted throughout the U.S. as being one of the clean

2170
01:49:36,720 --> 01:49:39,439
est places to use on your travel destination.

2171
01:49:39,439 --> 01:49:42,850
We appreciate that recommendation for having the cleanest

2172
01:49:42,850 --> 01:49:44,439
bathrooms in the world.

2173
01:49:44,439 --> 01:49:47,439
Just a little bit of background on the site.

2174
01:49:47,439 --> 01:49:49,220
You all are probably familiar with this, but what we are

2175
01:49:49,220 --> 01:49:52,489
looking at is a Buc-E's anchor facility and some padlocks

2176
01:49:52,489 --> 01:49:53,439
along the front,

2177
01:49:53,439 --> 01:49:56,949
which is the internal connector road which provides the

2178
01:49:56,949 --> 01:50:00,539
opportunity for utilities to serve the greater public as

2179
01:50:00,539 --> 01:50:02,439
well as this development.

2180
01:50:02,439 --> 01:50:05,800
This is just kind of a snapshot of artist rendering of what

2181
01:50:05,800 --> 01:50:08,439
the project's invention would look like.

2182
01:50:08,439 --> 01:50:14,439
The Buc-E's facility being the primary anchor seen there in

2183
01:50:14,439 --> 01:50:16,439
the background.

2184
01:50:16,439 --> 01:50:19,439
Okay, what is the -- why ESA ADP?

2185
01:50:19,439 --> 01:50:22,439
Why is this important to this particular project?

2186
01:50:22,439 --> 01:50:27,100
We are looking at offsetting the mitigation area with a

2187
01:50:27,100 --> 01:50:30,439
proposed good quality upland area.

2188
01:50:30,439 --> 01:50:34,109
In addition to this, it will house additional trees to be

2189
01:50:34,109 --> 01:50:37,779
planted of high quality large specimens from the city tree

2190
01:50:37,779 --> 01:50:38,439
list.

2191
01:50:38,439 --> 01:50:43,439
It also is a larger area than what was being disturbed.

2192
01:50:43,439 --> 01:50:47,149
Bringing in the great component of this, which is the

2193
01:50:47,149 --> 01:50:50,439
innovative or technology aspect of our proposed plan,

2194
01:50:50,439 --> 01:50:56,789
which is to bring in storm scepters, which are a mechanical

2195
01:50:56,789 --> 01:51:01,439
means of separating sediment and debris from the rain water

2196
01:51:01,439 --> 01:51:06,439
runoff associated with development related to this project,

2197
01:51:06,439 --> 01:51:11,109
specifically those of the upland area draining to this low

2198
01:51:11,109 --> 01:51:14,439
point in this public connecting road.

2199
01:51:14,439 --> 01:51:18,859
Also, this is bringing in public utilities, a key utility

2200
01:51:18,859 --> 01:51:22,439
connection is being completed for the city.

2201
01:51:22,439 --> 01:51:24,439
We are tying stub lines that go all the way back to the

2202
01:51:24,439 --> 01:51:26,949
subdivisions in the back of us providing water, potable

2203
01:51:26,949 --> 01:51:29,439
water and fire demand requirements.

2204
01:51:29,439 --> 01:51:33,390
Also, wastewater is being extended into this parcel and

2205
01:51:33,390 --> 01:51:37,520
other key utility components are being completed with this

2206
01:51:37,520 --> 01:51:38,439
project.

2207
01:51:38,439 --> 01:51:42,810
Also bringing in traffic impacts to improve the mobility

2208
01:51:42,810 --> 01:51:44,439
within this area.

2209
01:51:44,439 --> 01:51:47,550
We are working with the city on improving Brinker Road and

2210
01:51:47,550 --> 01:51:51,630
putting in an overpass for 35 so the Brinker will be a full

2211
01:51:51,630 --> 01:51:52,439
under and overpass,

2212
01:51:52,439 --> 01:51:55,869
providing key connections back to the north and to the

2213
01:51:55,869 --> 01:52:00,130
south to provide interconnectivity, flow and to reduce

2214
01:52:00,130 --> 01:52:02,439
traffic congestion.

2215
01:52:02,439 --> 01:52:05,390
In addition to the crossing, we are proposing to oversize

2216
01:52:05,390 --> 01:52:08,439
the storm sewer culvert which goes underneath the roadway.

2217
01:52:08,439 --> 01:52:11,180
This will enable the waters that transition down this emb

2218
01:52:11,180 --> 01:52:14,189
ankment to pass safely underneath the water, underneath the

2219
01:52:14,189 --> 01:52:16,439
road with minimal velocity increases

2220
01:52:16,439 --> 01:52:19,789
and also provide the ability for your bugs and your bees

2221
01:52:19,789 --> 01:52:22,909
and your bunnies and everybody to have safe passage

2222
01:52:22,909 --> 01:52:24,439
underneath the road.

2223
01:52:24,439 --> 01:52:27,939
Two large 48 inch culverts are proposed in order to make

2224
01:52:27,939 --> 01:52:31,460
this crossing which exceeds the requirements for this type

2225
01:52:31,460 --> 01:52:34,100
of development and also for the demands hydraulically for

2226
01:52:34,100 --> 01:52:35,439
this particular channel section.

2227
01:52:35,439 --> 01:52:39,390
We are also proposing one of those things that happens with

2228
01:52:39,390 --> 01:52:43,090
any type of channelizing or funneling of water is you do

2229
01:52:43,090 --> 01:52:45,439
increase the water velocity.

2230
01:52:45,439 --> 01:52:48,989
What we are proposing is to provide energy dissipators in a

2231
01:52:48,989 --> 01:52:52,350
stilling basin in order to return that water back to its

2232
01:52:52,350 --> 01:52:53,439
original state.

2233
01:52:53,439 --> 01:52:56,260
So it comes into the culverts and then exits the culverts

2234
01:52:56,260 --> 01:52:57,439
in a similar condition.

2235
01:52:57,439 --> 01:52:59,920
Not introducing any new pollutant loads because of the

2236
01:52:59,920 --> 01:53:03,640
interceptors that will be there and then also returning the

2237
01:53:03,640 --> 01:53:06,439
water back to its original state.

2238
01:53:06,439 --> 01:53:09,090
Preserving the uplands habitat is important to us as well

2239
01:53:09,090 --> 01:53:10,439
as it is to the community.

2240
01:53:10,439 --> 01:53:12,840
We believe in having a good looking product and we pride

2241
01:53:12,840 --> 01:53:14,439
ourselves on being the top notch.

2242
01:53:14,439 --> 01:53:17,720
Preserving this uplands area is part of our goals and our

2243
01:53:17,720 --> 01:53:19,439
ambitions for this project.

2244
01:53:19,439 --> 01:53:22,279
To make a nice attractive area for the citizenry that

2245
01:53:22,279 --> 01:53:25,189
currently view this area as well as those that would be

2246
01:53:25,189 --> 01:53:26,439
traveling past it.

2247
01:53:26,439 --> 01:53:29,600
Preserving the existing neighborhood mentality and the

2248
01:53:29,600 --> 01:53:31,439
existing neighborhood look.

2249
01:53:31,439 --> 01:53:35,720
Providing a quality development that fits the character of

2250
01:53:35,720 --> 01:53:40,100
Denton by providing additional modes for transportation as

2251
01:53:40,100 --> 01:53:42,439
well as for infrastructure.

2252
01:53:42,439 --> 01:53:46,380
Focusing new development in an area that is designated for

2253
01:53:46,380 --> 01:53:49,659
that in order to reduce urban sprawl this tract is

2254
01:53:49,659 --> 01:53:52,439
designated for this particular use.

2255
01:53:52,439 --> 01:53:55,840
Associates development keeping it all channeled and funnel

2256
01:53:55,840 --> 01:53:58,439
ed in one particular location providing that.

2257
01:53:58,439 --> 01:54:01,850
And also looking at providing the highest quality standards

2258
01:54:01,850 --> 01:54:05,319
as it pertains to Chapter 13 of the development code to the

2259
01:54:05,319 --> 01:54:06,439
city of Denton.

2260
01:54:06,439 --> 01:54:09,220
I appreciate the opportunity and if you have any questions

2261
01:54:09,220 --> 01:54:11,930
I'll be more than happy to answer those at the appropriate

2262
01:54:11,930 --> 01:54:12,439
time.

2263
01:54:12,439 --> 01:54:15,439
Commissioner back. Thank you chair. Thank you Mr. Radcliffe

2264
01:54:15,439 --> 01:54:18,439
. Yes sir. For coming down and speaking with us.

2265
01:54:18,439 --> 01:54:21,319
Obviously I think the biggest concern for me and everyone

2266
01:54:21,319 --> 01:54:24,060
here especially if you're a strong preservation is for

2267
01:54:24,060 --> 01:54:25,439
natural ecological areas.

2268
01:54:25,439 --> 01:54:30,840
The fact that we've got to do some dramatic changes to this

2269
01:54:30,840 --> 01:54:33,439
ESA this repairing buffer.

2270
01:54:33,439 --> 01:54:37,159
Were there not any other options you could choose to

2271
01:54:37,159 --> 01:54:41,439
accommodate your needs to get a flow through.

2272
01:54:41,439 --> 01:54:44,960
Location wise or just construction wise that would avoid

2273
01:54:44,960 --> 01:54:48,439
going in and doing a lot of damage to this one section.

2274
01:54:48,439 --> 01:54:50,840
We're actually if you look at these sections we're actually

2275
01:54:50,840 --> 01:54:53,109
crossing at one of the narrow portions that relates to the

2276
01:54:53,109 --> 01:54:55,439
tree canopy and develop tree growth that's there.

2277
01:54:55,439 --> 01:54:58,569
So we selected it for that matter. We're also trying to

2278
01:54:58,569 --> 01:55:01,880
stay away from the residents that are behind us separating

2279
01:55:01,880 --> 01:55:05,539
that infrastructure and development from the citizenry

2280
01:55:05,539 --> 01:55:06,439
behind us.

2281
01:55:06,439 --> 01:55:09,529
So this met the goals and objectives of that as well as

2282
01:55:09,529 --> 01:55:12,880
keeping us off of the frontage road not having a parallel

2283
01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:13,439
road.

2284
01:55:13,439 --> 01:55:17,100
And so that's why we chose this selection. Okay. But again

2285
01:55:17,100 --> 01:55:20,350
minimal damage seems like it could have been achieved if

2286
01:55:20,350 --> 01:55:22,439
and I'm just throwing this out.

2287
01:55:22,439 --> 01:55:26,640
Let me know why this is going to be a problem for you. My

2288
01:55:26,640 --> 01:55:31,600
thought was probably running an entrance way coming from I

2289
01:55:31,600 --> 01:55:35,100
guess it's the west or the north depending on how you look

2290
01:55:35,100 --> 01:55:35,439
at it.

2291
01:55:35,439 --> 01:55:39,829
And cutting in between lots three and four put your road in

2292
01:55:39,829 --> 01:55:44,439
there and then following the path that you got there now.

2293
01:55:44,439 --> 01:55:48,279
You would bypass the repairing buffer. Yes I can clarify

2294
01:55:48,279 --> 01:55:49,439
that really easily.

2295
01:55:49,439 --> 01:55:52,850
There's a ramp that's there. Text out ramp and there's

2296
01:55:52,850 --> 01:55:55,250
certain safety criteria required with the speeds coming off

2297
01:55:55,250 --> 01:55:58,439
of 35 require specific spacing distance.

2298
01:55:58,439 --> 01:56:01,750
And so to have anything in that neck of the woods as it

2299
01:56:01,750 --> 01:56:05,460
relates to a primary road connection would not be a safe

2300
01:56:05,460 --> 01:56:06,439
location to do that.

2301
01:56:06,439 --> 01:56:09,609
So this was chosen because it is passed or behind the ramp

2302
01:56:09,609 --> 01:56:12,640
and provides safe ingress and egress for the patrons

2303
01:56:12,640 --> 01:56:14,439
leaving. Oh really.

2304
01:56:14,439 --> 01:56:18,100
Yes sir. The ramp comes off basically in this general

2305
01:56:18,100 --> 01:56:22,479
location right here and there's a 460 foot what they call a

2306
01:56:22,479 --> 01:56:26,189
weaving space that enables traffic to meander and shift

2307
01:56:26,189 --> 01:56:29,229
lanes and get over whatever whichever direction they need

2308
01:56:29,229 --> 01:56:29,439
to go.

2309
01:56:29,439 --> 01:56:32,260
Whether to go around the future turn around at Brinker to

2310
01:56:32,260 --> 01:56:35,000
turn at Brinker or go to Buckees or whatever the case may

2311
01:56:35,000 --> 01:56:35,439
be.

2312
01:56:35,439 --> 01:56:39,180
So that safety zone basically would permit would not permit

2313
01:56:39,180 --> 01:56:41,439
that type of approach to be made.

2314
01:56:41,439 --> 01:56:44,630
Okay so your hands are tied by text out essentially. Well

2315
01:56:44,630 --> 01:56:46,979
text out I mean you can twist arms and stuff but we're more

2316
01:56:46,979 --> 01:56:48,439
concerned about the safety. Right.

2317
01:56:48,439 --> 01:56:51,550
And placing people into high velocity environments with

2318
01:56:51,550 --> 01:56:55,439
vehicles moving at 50 to 70 miles an hour isn't preferable.

2319
01:56:55,439 --> 01:56:59,710
Okay how about a section option here where you maintain the

2320
01:56:59,710 --> 01:57:01,439
path you're going here.

2321
01:57:01,439 --> 01:57:04,659
But rather than going in and again doing considerable

2322
01:57:04,659 --> 01:57:08,180
damage here and paving over this area essentially. What

2323
01:57:08,180 --> 01:57:11,529
about an elevated crossover type thing where you're

2324
01:57:11,529 --> 01:57:16,149
allowing the natural flow to remain you can put some peers

2325
01:57:16,149 --> 01:57:19,439
or columns in there to support your overpass.

2326
01:57:19,439 --> 01:57:22,970
And we're not talking about a real high just enough to

2327
01:57:22,970 --> 01:57:27,220
where from the 100 foot distance from one side of the

2328
01:57:27,220 --> 01:57:29,439
repairing buffer to the other.

2329
01:57:29,439 --> 01:57:32,159
Did anybody look at that possibility. Yes in order to do

2330
01:57:32,159 --> 01:57:34,510
that type of development you would still have to get in

2331
01:57:34,510 --> 01:57:35,439
there and tear it up.

2332
01:57:35,439 --> 01:57:38,340
Because in order to get the vehicles in there to make the

2333
01:57:38,340 --> 01:57:41,130
drillings and to do the prep for making that crossing also

2334
01:57:41,130 --> 01:57:43,670
there's utilities that are crossing there is going to be

2335
01:57:43,670 --> 01:57:44,439
disturbed.

2336
01:57:44,439 --> 01:57:46,689
What we tried to do is put the utility corridor and the

2337
01:57:46,689 --> 01:57:49,500
road corridor in the same location. So as a minimize that

2338
01:57:49,500 --> 01:57:52,439
disturbance. Okay.

2339
01:57:52,439 --> 01:57:58,770
Thank you. Yes. More questions. Commissioner Burgo. Thank

2340
01:57:58,770 --> 01:57:59,439
you chair. Commissioner Beckham going to piggyback off of

2341
01:57:59,439 --> 01:57:59,439
what you were asking.

2342
01:57:59,439 --> 01:58:03,960
That was one of my questions too. Why is it necessary to

2343
01:58:03,960 --> 01:58:06,439
have that road to the west there.

2344
01:58:06,439 --> 01:58:09,090
Couldn't you just enter the property through that main road

2345
01:58:09,090 --> 01:58:12,060
right there in the center. We have found that having

2346
01:58:12,060 --> 01:58:15,710
multiple connectivity points for reduces traffic and

2347
01:58:15,710 --> 01:58:18,000
provides an easier flow for the patrons and for those

2348
01:58:18,000 --> 01:58:19,439
utilizing these intersections.

2349
01:58:19,439 --> 01:58:23,479
Having one certain one specific point of interest egress is

2350
01:58:23,479 --> 01:58:29,439
problematic and introduces heavily congested areas. Okay.

2351
01:58:29,439 --> 01:58:33,890
My next question is about the culvert system. Are there I

2352
01:58:33,890 --> 01:58:36,319
understand we talked quite a bit. I'm not sure if you were

2353
01:58:36,319 --> 01:58:38,689
in the work session or not but my back to the crowd. Yeah I

2354
01:58:38,689 --> 01:58:39,439
was behind you.

2355
01:58:39,439 --> 01:58:42,180
Okay. So you heard the conversation about the storm scep

2356
01:58:42,180 --> 01:58:45,109
ters. You talked at length about that. And my question for

2357
01:58:45,109 --> 01:58:47,840
staff at that time was what sort of filtration system might

2358
01:58:47,840 --> 01:58:50,890
be in place for the culverts because as I understand for

2359
01:58:50,890 --> 01:58:54,720
those who weren't in the work session the storm scepters

2360
01:58:54,720 --> 01:58:56,869
are going to be there to kind of collect the runoff from

2361
01:58:56,869 --> 01:59:01,439
the properties to the east and west of the of the ESA.

2362
01:59:01,439 --> 01:59:04,439
Correct. But when you when you cut a road through riparian

2363
01:59:04,439 --> 01:59:07,319
habitat and the only thing that you have underneath there

2364
01:59:07,319 --> 01:59:10,189
is a culvert there's no sort of filtration system from the

2365
01:59:10,189 --> 01:59:13,140
runoff coming whatever runoff isn't captured by the storm

2366
01:59:13,140 --> 01:59:16,079
sectors and goes into that creek but also the runoff coming

2367
01:59:16,079 --> 01:59:21,439
from I 35 and now you have now you have less of a natural

2368
01:59:21,439 --> 01:59:24,729
filtration system to bring that to clean that water from

2369
01:59:24,729 --> 01:59:27,439
the north as it enters into that pond in the south.

2370
01:59:27,439 --> 01:59:30,329
So is there any filtration system in place that you are it

2371
01:59:30,329 --> 01:59:33,010
's something that you can add to the culvert system to

2372
01:59:33,010 --> 01:59:35,930
further protect the quality of the water as it relates to

2373
01:59:35,930 --> 01:59:39,439
the quality of the water that's coming underneath I 35.

2374
01:59:39,439 --> 01:59:42,949
Your primary treatments going to occur in the first hundred

2375
01:59:42,949 --> 01:59:46,890
, 200 feet of the riparian area which is entering into, and

2376
01:59:46,890 --> 01:59:48,439
we are well past that.

2377
01:59:48,439 --> 01:59:51,500
The area that we're disturbing is not adding anything in

2378
01:59:51,500 --> 01:59:54,600
fact we're taking pollutants out with our storm scepters

2379
01:59:54,600 --> 01:59:57,529
and so we're improving the water quality that would be

2380
01:59:57,529 --> 02:00:00,630
entering in that as relates to some sort of large contamin

2381
02:00:00,630 --> 02:00:02,439
ant or capturing device.

2382
02:00:02,439 --> 02:00:06,109
You know, if the trees produced green backs, we'd be able

2383
02:00:06,109 --> 02:00:09,460
to fund anything we wanted to but I don't know of any off

2384
02:00:09,460 --> 02:00:12,949
the shelf type of prototype that would be able to fit that

2385
02:00:12,949 --> 02:00:16,659
type of application and provide any additional treatment

2386
02:00:16,659 --> 02:00:19,170
and what's already being provided by the natural riparian

2387
02:00:19,170 --> 02:00:20,439
area north of the culverts.

2388
02:00:20,439 --> 02:00:23,659
What are you going to do to prevent runoff from that that

2389
02:00:23,659 --> 02:00:27,090
part right there with a road goes over, goes over the creek

2390
02:00:27,090 --> 02:00:27,439
.

2391
02:00:27,439 --> 02:00:30,350
I'm sorry so so I understand so when you say a lot of the

2392
02:00:30,350 --> 02:00:33,600
filtration is going to happen in the first hundred feet or

2393
02:00:33,600 --> 02:00:37,439
so from I 35 to the point of the right the existing runoff.

2394
02:00:37,439 --> 02:00:38,439
Yeah.

2395
02:00:38,439 --> 02:00:42,279
So, but what about the cars that cross over that and there

2396
02:00:42,279 --> 02:00:45,720
's going to be some runoff from the road and from some

2397
02:00:45,720 --> 02:00:49,439
pollution from some of the cars and whatnot on this.

2398
02:00:49,439 --> 02:00:52,439
Does that make sense that on our on the private road.

2399
02:00:52,439 --> 02:00:55,220
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so all that was going to be captured by

2400
02:00:55,220 --> 02:00:57,439
the storm scepters that are in that basin.

2401
02:00:57,439 --> 02:01:00,520
There's okay there's I think staff had a map that showed

2402
02:01:00,520 --> 02:01:03,260
with that base and look like I don't have that in my

2403
02:01:03,260 --> 02:01:06,470
presentation, but it is picking up the area that would be

2404
02:01:06,470 --> 02:01:10,270
contributing towards this ESA is being captured by the

2405
02:01:10,270 --> 02:01:15,220
storm scepters that were proposing basically removing all

2406
02:01:15,220 --> 02:01:19,439
the trash and debris from the stormwater introducing it in

2407
02:01:19,439 --> 02:01:21,439
a controlled environment so as to try to minimize the road.

2408
02:01:21,439 --> 02:01:25,539
And put water back into the environment at a city defined

2409
02:01:25,539 --> 02:01:28,439
rate of three to six feet per second.

2410
02:01:28,439 --> 02:01:29,439
Okay, thank you.

2411
02:01:29,439 --> 02:01:31,439
Yes.

2412
02:01:31,439 --> 02:01:33,439
Commissioner Taylor.

2413
02:01:33,439 --> 02:01:34,439
Thank you, Chair.

2414
02:01:34,439 --> 02:01:51,439
So, I'm looking at the road on the north end here. And if

2415
02:01:51,439 --> 02:01:51,439
you look at an aerial map it. This road appears to line up

2416
02:01:51,439 --> 02:01:51,439
with an existing kind of gravel pathway that goes to like

2417
02:01:51,439 --> 02:01:51,439
the utilities and power line easement.

2418
02:01:51,439 --> 02:01:55,550
And right now, people exit the interstate and cross the

2419
02:01:55,550 --> 02:01:58,439
double white line to turn into that.

2420
02:01:58,439 --> 02:02:01,909
So I do have a concern that we're, we're creating a

2421
02:02:01,909 --> 02:02:06,060
situation where people will intentionally be taking this

2422
02:02:06,060 --> 02:02:09,680
first turn to get to, you know, to cut across here, you

2423
02:02:09,680 --> 02:02:12,659
have to cut across right there just cut across the double

2424
02:02:12,659 --> 02:02:13,439
white line.

2425
02:02:13,439 --> 02:02:18,770
Is there any plan to, to put up a barrier or, or some other

2426
02:02:18,770 --> 02:02:24,329
device that would prevent people from taking that that cut

2427
02:02:24,329 --> 02:02:27,439
across two lanes of traffic.

2428
02:02:27,439 --> 02:02:30,779
Yes, sir. We've been working with text out in the city one

2429
02:02:30,779 --> 02:02:33,970
on one on getting the improvements at 288 Brinker and May

2430
02:02:33,970 --> 02:02:36,460
hill. And part of those improvements are just like you're

2431
02:02:36,460 --> 02:02:39,010
talking about, making sure that these exits and entrance

2432
02:02:39,010 --> 02:02:40,439
points aren't circumvented.

2433
02:02:40,439 --> 02:02:44,340
And the new ramp is to be put to the discharge traffic pass

2434
02:02:44,340 --> 02:02:47,739
this point. So they would have to drive through the grass

2435
02:02:47,739 --> 02:02:50,750
and you know, the typical text out segment there from the

2436
02:02:50,750 --> 02:02:53,670
ramp in order to try to jump across there and make any type

2437
02:02:53,670 --> 02:02:54,439
of entryway.

2438
02:02:54,439 --> 02:02:56,970
So you're saying that the text out ramp is actually moving

2439
02:02:56,970 --> 02:03:00,189
south. Yes, it's being elongated in that section of front

2440
02:03:00,189 --> 02:03:03,239
age road is actually being snaked a little bit in front of

2441
02:03:03,239 --> 02:03:05,439
the Buc-E's proposed project here.

2442
02:03:05,439 --> 02:03:08,210
We are actually developing the full fully developed text

2443
02:03:08,210 --> 02:03:11,140
out section for this particular segment. So along this

2444
02:03:11,140 --> 02:03:14,869
entire almost 2000 linear feet of frontage, it'll be the

2445
02:03:14,869 --> 02:03:16,439
full build out for text.

2446
02:03:16,439 --> 02:03:19,119
So this frontage road will be done. So it'll look like the

2447
02:03:19,119 --> 02:03:21,789
frontage road, if you will. And so part of that is taking

2448
02:03:21,789 --> 02:03:24,569
into consideration these things, which the city has noted

2449
02:03:24,569 --> 02:03:27,350
as being concerns and trying to address those traffic needs

2450
02:03:27,350 --> 02:03:28,439
with this project.

2451
02:03:28,439 --> 02:03:32,109
And this this new drive on the north end, does it connect

2452
02:03:32,109 --> 02:03:35,829
to the existing will it connect to the existing parking lot

2453
02:03:35,829 --> 02:03:37,439
for the goodwill?

2454
02:03:37,439 --> 02:03:46,800
Goodwill, gym, trampoline park. There is an existing it's

2455
02:03:46,800 --> 02:03:48,069
classified as a right of way easement is what that that

2456
02:03:48,069 --> 02:03:50,439
segment is a 50 foot wide swath that comes through there.

2457
02:03:50,439 --> 02:03:54,909
The intent is to provide access to the gentleman that's

2458
02:03:54,909 --> 02:03:59,000
behind the goodwill store. And so this will parallel that

2459
02:03:59,000 --> 02:04:01,909
as it relates to prohibiting goodwill from tying to this

2460
02:04:01,909 --> 02:04:02,439
road.

2461
02:04:02,439 --> 02:04:05,000
I don't have the purview to be able to dictate that. But as

2462
02:04:05,000 --> 02:04:07,609
we're proposing it right now, it's just a connection point

2463
02:04:07,609 --> 02:04:10,060
that will allow them to connect as well as us to connect to

2464
02:04:10,060 --> 02:04:11,439
this new frontage road.

2465
02:04:11,439 --> 02:04:14,590
So your your plan will not well you'll keep the curb and

2466
02:04:14,590 --> 02:04:17,890
there will be a curb between curb and gutter. Yeah, curb

2467
02:04:17,890 --> 02:04:20,279
and gutter between you and the goodwill and sidewalk and

2468
02:04:20,279 --> 02:04:22,439
landscaping and all those nice things.

2469
02:04:22,439 --> 02:04:24,439
Okay. Thank you.

2470
02:04:24,439 --> 02:04:32,779
Commissioner Beck. Thank you, Chair. Let me ask you a few

2471
02:04:32,779 --> 02:04:33,789
questions about these storm scepters. I'm a little

2472
02:04:33,789 --> 02:04:34,779
concerned I did a little quick survey on them and some

2473
02:04:34,779 --> 02:04:35,439
questions were raised.

2474
02:04:35,439 --> 02:04:39,109
So maybe you can allay my concerns to that. Again, going

2475
02:04:39,109 --> 02:04:41,609
back. Can you get your microphone closer and tell you they

2476
02:04:41,609 --> 02:04:42,439
can't hear you.

2477
02:04:42,439 --> 02:04:46,760
How's that. Okay. Going back to my idea of an overpass

2478
02:04:46,760 --> 02:04:51,630
rather than a road. Okay. Damage wise going to be the same.

2479
02:04:51,630 --> 02:04:56,060
But the end product is going to be, you know, natural flow

2480
02:04:56,060 --> 02:04:59,439
as opposed to using these storm scepters.

2481
02:04:59,439 --> 02:05:03,960
And correct me if I'm wrong here. These units on average

2482
02:05:03,960 --> 02:05:09,010
eliminate only 74% of the total suspended solids which are

2483
02:05:09,010 --> 02:05:13,770
organic and inorganic materials that lower water quality in

2484
02:05:13,770 --> 02:05:16,439
high concentrations over time.

2485
02:05:16,439 --> 02:05:19,500
We're losing something there it seems like. Well, we're

2486
02:05:19,500 --> 02:05:22,439
actually gaining quite a bit because the storm scepters

2487
02:05:22,439 --> 02:05:25,750
actually function even in high velocity conditions. And one

2488
02:05:25,750 --> 02:05:28,779
of the things in the proposed units that we're proposing is

2489
02:05:28,779 --> 02:05:30,439
that you still get around a 50% removal rate even in a 100

2490
02:05:30,439 --> 02:05:30,439
year storm event.

2491
02:05:30,439 --> 02:05:32,920
You have a 100 year storm event that comes through a normal

2492
02:05:32,920 --> 02:05:35,159
channel, you end up having more erosion than you actually

2493
02:05:35,159 --> 02:05:38,149
do have sediment deposits. And so by having the mechanical

2494
02:05:38,149 --> 02:05:42,149
means you're actually basically giving a quantifiable means

2495
02:05:42,149 --> 02:05:43,439
of removing pollutant load.

2496
02:05:43,439 --> 02:05:46,399
Whereas the natural stream, if you have a winter, a hard

2497
02:05:46,399 --> 02:05:49,350
winter and all your undergrowth story is dead and you have

2498
02:05:49,350 --> 02:05:52,329
a hard rain it's not doing any good. If you have trees that

2499
02:05:52,329 --> 02:05:54,680
die off due to attrition, they're, you know, they're not

2500
02:05:54,680 --> 02:05:55,439
doing any good.

2501
02:05:55,439 --> 02:05:57,479
They're not helping to hold. If your understory gets

2502
02:05:57,479 --> 02:06:00,109
disturbed or destroyed during a large event, it's no longer

2503
02:06:00,109 --> 02:06:02,760
being able to remove that. But in mechanical means is

2504
02:06:02,760 --> 02:06:05,340
something that's got science behind it that's got a

2505
02:06:05,340 --> 02:06:06,439
specific number.

2506
02:06:06,439 --> 02:06:09,060
This gets a certain amount of flow, it's going to remove a

2507
02:06:09,060 --> 02:06:11,829
certain amount. And in a natural environment, in an ideal

2508
02:06:11,829 --> 02:06:14,529
situation in a low flow, yes, you're going to get a certain

2509
02:06:14,529 --> 02:06:15,439
load removal.

2510
02:06:15,439 --> 02:06:17,840
But as you increase your flow, you can't guarantee that you

2511
02:06:17,840 --> 02:06:19,949
're going to get that same removal because the water is

2512
02:06:19,949 --> 02:06:22,439
moving faster and it's over a bigger disturbed area.

2513
02:06:22,439 --> 02:06:26,109
Okay, again though, overtime is a big concern too. A lot of

2514
02:06:26,109 --> 02:06:29,720
maintenance is going to be required here. These things will

2515
02:06:29,720 --> 02:06:33,500
break down, replacement may be included. So again, it would

2516
02:06:33,500 --> 02:06:37,810
take time to build this repair and buffer back up to where

2517
02:06:37,810 --> 02:06:42,439
the natural elements could take care of this.

2518
02:06:42,439 --> 02:06:46,109
And not worry about maintenance down the road and whether

2519
02:06:46,109 --> 02:06:49,470
it's going to be done in a timely manner. And again,

2520
02:06:49,470 --> 02:06:53,170
information I got says the storm scepters were not expected

2521
02:06:53,170 --> 02:06:57,439
to provide significant nutrient or fecal coliform removal.

2522
02:06:57,439 --> 02:07:09,359
Most of the survey are studied done in 2003. So my question

2523
02:07:09,359 --> 02:07:16,489
would be, are they up to this task now? And it also begs

2524
02:07:16,489 --> 02:07:16,710
the question too, that if the natural repair and buffers

2525
02:07:16,710 --> 02:07:16,989
are capable of removing 60 to 65% of these nutrients, which

2526
02:07:16,989 --> 02:07:17,439
they are, are these storm scepters less capable than this?

2527
02:07:17,439 --> 02:07:20,229
Well, it's removing the fecal coliform is the reason they

2528
02:07:20,229 --> 02:07:23,069
're able to remove fecal coliforms because they're a living

2529
02:07:23,069 --> 02:07:26,000
environment. And so also keeping in mind that there is this

2530
02:07:26,000 --> 02:07:28,710
native repair and buffer that's being preserved that is

2531
02:07:28,710 --> 02:07:30,439
south of this development.

2532
02:07:30,439 --> 02:07:33,680
So the minor area, the 50 foot swath that we're removing,

2533
02:07:33,680 --> 02:07:37,390
50 foot wide swath has another 100, 150 feet worth of

2534
02:07:37,390 --> 02:07:40,539
channel plus a pond down there that receive these nutrients

2535
02:07:40,539 --> 02:07:42,439
and live off of these nutrients.

2536
02:07:42,439 --> 02:07:44,939
So it's kind of like the whole antibacterial thing. You

2537
02:07:44,939 --> 02:07:47,930
kill all the bugs, you don't have any good bugs too. So you

2538
02:07:47,930 --> 02:07:52,670
've got a system that's removing the eyesores, the heavy

2539
02:07:52,670 --> 02:07:56,579
things, the fats and the oils, and you're putting them back

2540
02:07:56,579 --> 02:08:00,060
into an environment which it can continue on its filtration

2541
02:08:00,060 --> 02:08:03,449
system down into the pond and then eventually down into

2542
02:08:03,449 --> 02:08:04,439
Lake Louisville.

2543
02:08:04,439 --> 02:08:07,409
And so this is just part of the components and what we're

2544
02:08:07,409 --> 02:08:10,350
trying to do is provide a means of getting, providing

2545
02:08:10,350 --> 02:08:13,460
development and providing it in a rational, reasonable

2546
02:08:13,460 --> 02:08:16,439
fashion so that not only can the environment thrive but

2547
02:08:16,439 --> 02:08:19,439
also we can have something that's nice to look at.

2548
02:08:19,439 --> 02:08:21,770
Having these pollutants in the existing stream, you have

2549
02:08:21,770 --> 02:08:24,119
your styrofoam cups and your trash and all that stuff, that

2550
02:08:24,119 --> 02:08:26,390
stuff you still see floating down the stream and you can go

2551
02:08:26,390 --> 02:08:28,609
out there today and you can see that stuff sitting in that

2552
02:08:28,609 --> 02:08:29,439
stream bed.

2553
02:08:29,439 --> 02:08:32,020
What this does is all that stuff is picked up and stored

2554
02:08:32,020 --> 02:08:34,939
underground and then it's able to become, become and pumped

2555
02:08:34,939 --> 02:08:37,439
regularly, just like you would on a grease trap at a

2556
02:08:37,439 --> 02:08:39,880
restaurant, and suck those fats and the sediments out of

2557
02:08:39,880 --> 02:08:40,439
the system.

2558
02:08:40,439 --> 02:08:43,529
It's designed for quick connect so that the system can come

2559
02:08:43,529 --> 02:08:46,500
and think the average time is about five to ten minutes to

2560
02:08:46,500 --> 02:08:49,539
suck one of these systems out and then it can operate again

2561
02:08:49,539 --> 02:08:51,439
until the next cycle period.

2562
02:08:51,439 --> 02:08:54,390
And so what we're trying to do is to improve what's

2563
02:08:54,390 --> 02:08:57,640
visually there as well as what we can't see which is the

2564
02:08:57,640 --> 02:09:01,439
birds and the bees and the bacterias and all those things.

2565
02:09:01,439 --> 02:09:04,159
It seems like then that the critical thing is placement of

2566
02:09:04,159 --> 02:09:06,710
these two and we're not really going to know that until

2567
02:09:06,710 --> 02:09:09,439
most of the construction is done, is that correct?

2568
02:09:09,439 --> 02:09:12,220
Well, the placement of those things is going to be to, and

2569
02:09:12,220 --> 02:09:15,000
it was identified in our presentation to staff in our write

2570
02:09:15,000 --> 02:09:17,729
-up, is that we're going to treat the runoff from the road

2571
02:09:17,729 --> 02:09:20,420
segments that drain towards the ESA and then also the pad

2572
02:09:20,420 --> 02:09:22,439
sites that drain towards the CSA.

2573
02:09:22,439 --> 02:09:25,340
So what we're doing is we're effectively removing those

2574
02:09:25,340 --> 02:09:28,439
areas that currently would be contributing water to the ESA

2575
02:09:28,439 --> 02:09:31,369
and providing it into the environment in a controlled,

2576
02:09:31,369 --> 02:09:32,439
clean manner.

2577
02:09:32,439 --> 02:09:33,439
Okay. Thank you.

2578
02:09:33,439 --> 02:09:35,439
Yes, sir.

2579
02:09:35,439 --> 02:09:37,439
Commissioner Hadsbeth.

2580
02:09:37,439 --> 02:09:38,439
Thank you, Chair.

2581
02:09:38,439 --> 02:09:43,439
I appreciate your insight and your specific delivery.

2582
02:09:43,439 --> 02:09:46,439
It makes it easy for me to process.

2583
02:09:46,439 --> 02:09:52,289
Do you have a site for the statistic with respect to the

2584
02:09:52,289 --> 02:09:54,439
100 feet?

2585
02:09:54,439 --> 02:09:59,750
That first 100 feet you mentioned, most of the filtration

2586
02:09:59,750 --> 02:10:04,439
happens within that first 100 feet.

2587
02:10:04,439 --> 02:10:06,439
Is there a specific study you're relying on?

2588
02:10:06,439 --> 02:10:08,439
Where does that number come from?

2589
02:10:08,439 --> 02:10:09,439
I'm just curious.

2590
02:10:09,439 --> 02:10:12,159
That number, there's several research studies, and it's not

2591
02:10:12,159 --> 02:10:13,439
necessarily 100.

2592
02:10:13,439 --> 02:10:15,670
It depends on the geometry of the channel section as well

2593
02:10:15,670 --> 02:10:17,439
as the hydraulics that are coming down.

2594
02:10:17,439 --> 02:10:19,449
I was just trying to throw out information that you're

2595
02:10:19,449 --> 02:10:21,630
getting a majority of your treatment in the first segment

2596
02:10:21,630 --> 02:10:22,439
of the channel.

2597
02:10:22,439 --> 02:10:23,439
Okay.

2598
02:10:23,439 --> 02:10:25,939
I don't have any of my notes with me to tell you what study

2599
02:10:25,939 --> 02:10:28,340
I'm pulling that from, just from what I've read over

2600
02:10:28,340 --> 02:10:30,439
technical manuals and stuff in the past.

2601
02:10:30,439 --> 02:10:31,439
Okay.

2602
02:10:31,439 --> 02:10:34,439
And on the same lines.

2603
02:10:34,439 --> 02:10:38,140
Obviously, we're going to -- I'm going to try to

2604
02:10:38,140 --> 02:10:41,439
acknowledge the elephant in the room.

2605
02:10:41,439 --> 02:10:45,439
Can you speak to what studies have been done?

2606
02:10:45,439 --> 02:10:48,340
Obviously, this area has been looked at and you've

2607
02:10:48,340 --> 02:10:51,439
developed a plan on how to least impact this area.

2608
02:10:51,439 --> 02:10:55,989
What steps have been taken to identify this particular road

2609
02:10:55,989 --> 02:10:58,439
or this particular segment?

2610
02:10:58,439 --> 02:11:02,689
I know you've touched on some of the decisions made in the

2611
02:11:02,689 --> 02:11:06,819
placement, but with respect to the keeping the area

2612
02:11:06,819 --> 02:11:09,439
preserved as best as possible,

2613
02:11:09,439 --> 02:11:12,449
have you done any research or have, and I say not you

2614
02:11:12,449 --> 02:11:16,810
specifically, but Buc-E's or the organization done any

2615
02:11:16,810 --> 02:11:22,970
study specifically on how to lessen the impact or anything

2616
02:11:22,970 --> 02:11:26,439
along those lines?

2617
02:11:26,439 --> 02:11:29,949
I'm not sure exactly what the question is, but we've looked

2618
02:11:29,949 --> 02:11:33,460
at other opportunities and other placements for crossings

2619
02:11:33,460 --> 02:11:35,439
in order to provide developable lots

2620
02:11:35,439 --> 02:11:39,159
and to provide the necessary spacings for our patrons

2621
02:11:39,159 --> 02:11:42,439
around us and our neighbors to the back of us.

2622
02:11:42,439 --> 02:11:44,529
This was the ideal location in order to facilitate

2623
02:11:44,529 --> 02:11:47,529
connecting with the existing right-of-way and providing an

2624
02:11:47,529 --> 02:11:51,510
interconnecting route to avoid transportation issues with

2625
02:11:51,510 --> 02:11:52,439
textiles.

2626
02:11:52,439 --> 02:11:55,100
As it relates to the environmental, we just looked for a

2627
02:11:55,100 --> 02:11:58,439
narrow section with the fewest amount of trees that aligned

2628
02:11:58,439 --> 02:12:01,750
with those projections of keeping our traffic at a safe

2629
02:12:01,750 --> 02:12:03,439
distance for our textile connection,

2630
02:12:03,439 --> 02:12:06,869
as well as providing an opportunity for the utility cross

2631
02:12:06,869 --> 02:12:07,439
ings.

2632
02:12:07,439 --> 02:12:10,949
So all of those elements played into where we laid things

2633
02:12:10,949 --> 02:12:11,439
out.

2634
02:12:11,439 --> 02:12:17,100
And one last thing for me. So, and is it, my understanding

2635
02:12:17,100 --> 02:12:22,689
is with the bridge extending Brinker, that will alleviate

2636
02:12:22,689 --> 02:12:26,909
some of the issue with the southbound traffic on that

2637
02:12:26,909 --> 02:12:28,439
service road, the need to cut across.

2638
02:12:28,439 --> 02:12:32,859
Because traditionally in my mind if I look at it now,

2639
02:12:32,859 --> 02:12:37,680
someone would go north on the service road, make a U-turn

2640
02:12:37,680 --> 02:12:41,439
at Loop 288, and then come there.

2641
02:12:41,439 --> 02:12:44,619
Or I just don't think that that's going to be a big issue

2642
02:12:44,619 --> 02:12:48,310
because if you're coming south on I-35, you'll have signage

2643
02:12:48,310 --> 02:12:50,439
, you'll exit in advance of that.

2644
02:12:50,439 --> 02:12:54,840
And if you do miss it, then there's Brinker to kind of come

2645
02:12:54,840 --> 02:12:58,729
back around and get there that way versus trying to

2646
02:12:58,729 --> 02:13:03,279
navigate the whatever text dot exit and obstructions they

2647
02:13:03,279 --> 02:13:05,439
're going to put there.

2648
02:13:05,439 --> 02:13:09,109
Yeah, as it relates to entering traffic on that northern

2649
02:13:09,109 --> 02:13:12,460
connection point, it will primarily be exiting traffic

2650
02:13:12,460 --> 02:13:15,560
because you're able to get out before the exit ramp, which

2651
02:13:15,560 --> 02:13:16,890
is everybody's coming off the exit ramps, you're able to

2652
02:13:16,890 --> 02:13:19,439
get off the slower traffic down the frontage road.

2653
02:13:19,439 --> 02:13:21,439
So it provides an easier exit point.

2654
02:13:21,439 --> 02:13:23,439
Okay. Thank you.

2655
02:13:23,439 --> 02:13:24,439
Yes, sir.

2656
02:13:24,439 --> 02:13:25,439
Commissioner Bergman.

2657
02:13:25,439 --> 02:13:27,439
Thank you, Chair.

2658
02:13:27,439 --> 02:13:29,439
I forgot to ask a question about the storm scepters again.

2659
02:13:29,439 --> 02:13:30,439
Sure.

2660
02:13:30,439 --> 02:13:32,439
We were talking about a maintenance plan.

2661
02:13:32,439 --> 02:13:34,439
These, you know, things break.

2662
02:13:34,439 --> 02:13:37,979
So how do we know that these are going to be maintained to

2663
02:13:37,979 --> 02:13:41,289
make sure that the water quality is as clean as it can

2664
02:13:41,289 --> 02:13:42,439
possibly be?

2665
02:13:42,439 --> 02:13:45,560
There's twofold. Part of the requirement with the city is

2666
02:13:45,560 --> 02:13:48,300
that we're going to have to provide a plan for regular

2667
02:13:48,300 --> 02:13:50,439
maintenance for those facilities.

2668
02:13:50,439 --> 02:13:56,300
And also as, you know, as development comes online, we'll

2669
02:13:56,300 --> 02:13:59,300
be able to gauge, okay, we pumped out five feet of sediment

2670
02:13:59,300 --> 02:14:02,090
this week and then next week it's six and, well, okay, we

2671
02:14:02,090 --> 02:14:04,880
need to pump it more regularly, those sort of things, in

2672
02:14:04,880 --> 02:14:08,439
order to keep it within the manufacturer's recommended load

2673
02:14:08,439 --> 02:14:10,439
that it can carry inside the belly of it, if you will.

2674
02:14:10,439 --> 02:14:14,199
And so we'll be able to, you know, kind of guess without

2675
02:14:14,199 --> 02:14:18,350
anybody built and kind of say, okay, let's start with every

2676
02:14:18,350 --> 02:14:21,439
other month and see what the loads look like.

2677
02:14:21,439 --> 02:14:24,420
And then as we progress, we may have to adjust that time

2678
02:14:24,420 --> 02:14:27,430
frame in order to keep that system so it functions at the

2679
02:14:27,430 --> 02:14:29,439
manufacturer's specified rate.

2680
02:14:29,439 --> 02:14:32,439
Is there a checks and balances system in place?

2681
02:14:32,439 --> 02:14:35,710
We're putting all of the proof that these things are

2682
02:14:35,710 --> 02:14:38,439
working on the property owner, right?

2683
02:14:38,439 --> 02:14:42,000
Is there, maybe this is a question for staff, is there a

2684
02:14:42,000 --> 02:14:45,079
way that the city can go out and inspect that this

2685
02:14:45,079 --> 02:14:48,439
maintenance plan is actually being adhered to?

2686
02:14:48,439 --> 02:14:51,060
That these things are actually working and we're, I'd like

2687
02:14:51,060 --> 02:14:53,500
to take your word for it, I would, but I just want to make

2688
02:14:53,500 --> 02:14:57,689
sure, you know, how do we know that this is what they say

2689
02:14:57,689 --> 02:14:58,439
it is?

2690
02:14:58,439 --> 02:15:01,439
I'll call on Menal to answer that.

2691
02:15:01,439 --> 02:15:08,859
Thank you. Commissioner Bruegel, I'm actually going to ask

2692
02:15:08,859 --> 02:15:09,359
Deborah to step down and explain what measures we have in

2693
02:15:09,359 --> 02:15:13,640
place to ensure that these storm sceptres are indeed in

2694
02:15:13,640 --> 02:15:19,439
working condition and are maintained.

2695
02:15:19,439 --> 02:15:22,239
Because this is going to be a private infrastructure,

2696
02:15:22,239 --> 02:15:25,329
privately maintained, the burden of the maintenance would

2697
02:15:25,329 --> 02:15:27,439
remain on the property owner, okay?

2698
02:15:27,439 --> 02:15:32,159
If by any chance there's evidence that those storm sceptres

2699
02:15:32,159 --> 02:15:36,060
are failing in treatment, we will see some indications of

2700
02:15:36,060 --> 02:15:36,439
it.

2701
02:15:36,439 --> 02:15:40,670
And then we will be able to go back to who is retaining the

2702
02:15:40,670 --> 02:15:43,439
control over those storm sceptres.

2703
02:15:43,439 --> 02:15:46,159
At this point, I'm not sure if that would be Bucky's or

2704
02:15:46,159 --> 02:15:49,060
that would be some sort of business association that that

2705
02:15:49,060 --> 02:15:51,439
might put together between the parcels and bucking

2706
02:15:51,439 --> 02:15:51,439
themselves.

2707
02:15:51,439 --> 02:15:54,930
But whatever mechanism they put, then we will go back to

2708
02:15:54,930 --> 02:15:57,439
them and say, hey, this is failing.

2709
02:15:57,439 --> 02:16:01,340
You need to take care because you are out of compliance of

2710
02:16:01,340 --> 02:16:03,439
the alternative ESA plan.

2711
02:16:03,439 --> 02:16:07,109
If they decide not to respond, then the city will have the

2712
02:16:07,109 --> 02:16:10,760
ability to step in, do whatever maintenance needs to be

2713
02:16:10,760 --> 02:16:14,619
done to either replace it or clean it, whatever is needed,

2714
02:16:14,619 --> 02:16:15,439
at the cost.

2715
02:16:15,439 --> 02:16:17,649
And we will pass the cost to the owner or the business

2716
02:16:17,649 --> 02:16:18,439
association.

2717
02:16:18,439 --> 02:16:22,439
It's very similar to what we have for Razor Ranch.

2718
02:16:22,439 --> 02:16:25,949
Could you give me some examples, please, of what you would

2719
02:16:25,949 --> 02:16:28,439
see should these storm sceptres fail?

2720
02:16:28,439 --> 02:16:31,439
And at what point would you be seeing these things pop up?

2721
02:16:31,439 --> 02:16:36,040
Well, most of the time you start seeing it is an encaps

2722
02:16:36,040 --> 02:16:37,440
ulated site.

2723
02:16:37,440 --> 02:16:42,139
And if we, for example, if we start seeing where those eff

2724
02:16:42,139 --> 02:16:46,719
luent comes out of the storm scepter, if we start seeing a

2725
02:16:46,719 --> 02:16:52,440
lot of debris accumulated there because it's overflowing,

2726
02:16:52,440 --> 02:16:56,200
there will be a physical indication for us that we need to

2727
02:16:56,200 --> 02:16:57,440
look into this.

2728
02:16:57,440 --> 02:16:59,989
And is there a city inspector that would go out and look at

2729
02:16:59,989 --> 02:17:00,440
this?

2730
02:17:00,440 --> 02:17:03,739
That would be something that the Water Shield Protection as

2731
02:17:03,739 --> 02:17:06,440
a part would be something that we would call.

2732
02:17:06,440 --> 02:17:09,440
We have a stormwater inspectors in the city of Denton.

2733
02:17:09,440 --> 02:17:13,450
And from time to time we get phone calls about complaints,

2734
02:17:13,450 --> 02:17:15,440
about things not working properly.

2735
02:17:15,440 --> 02:17:18,709
At that time, either it is right through the code

2736
02:17:18,709 --> 02:17:21,969
enforcement department and code enforcement will contact

2737
02:17:21,969 --> 02:17:22,440
Watershed,

2738
02:17:22,440 --> 02:17:26,420
or it will be a phone call that we receive and then we will

2739
02:17:26,420 --> 02:17:27,440
go to the site.

2740
02:17:27,440 --> 02:17:30,440
And then we start looking into what options we have.

2741
02:17:30,440 --> 02:17:33,979
Either contact the owner for them to take the initial step,

2742
02:17:33,979 --> 02:17:37,440
or if there's no response, then the city will step in.

2743
02:17:37,440 --> 02:17:41,620
So it's first the inspection happens after a complaint is

2744
02:17:41,620 --> 02:17:43,440
called into the city?

2745
02:17:43,440 --> 02:17:44,440
Do I understand that right?

2746
02:17:44,440 --> 02:17:48,440
Most of the time we don't have eyes everywhere.

2747
02:17:48,440 --> 02:17:52,719
And most of the time the residents are our best alarm sim

2748
02:17:52,719 --> 02:17:53,440
ster.

2749
02:17:53,440 --> 02:17:56,500
But if I may, I would imagine that a business model like B

2750
02:17:56,500 --> 02:17:59,719
uckeyes is probably going to be attracting people from out

2751
02:17:59,719 --> 02:18:00,440
of town.

2752
02:18:00,440 --> 02:18:02,440
There would be some locals, right?

2753
02:18:02,440 --> 02:18:05,909
But this is a pit stop along your way to Oklahoma City or

2754
02:18:05,909 --> 02:18:07,440
Dallas or whatnot.

2755
02:18:07,440 --> 02:18:13,680
So the out of towners wouldn't think to, I mean, who's

2756
02:18:13,680 --> 02:18:15,979
going to take time to look up the city inspector when they

2757
02:18:15,979 --> 02:18:18,440
're trying to get up to Grandma's house?

2758
02:18:18,440 --> 02:18:21,979
Yeah, the transient population would probably not take care

2759
02:18:21,979 --> 02:18:26,790
because they don't have the time to look it up, a phone

2760
02:18:26,790 --> 02:18:28,440
number, so when they're just on the way.

2761
02:18:28,440 --> 02:18:33,020
But it is amazing what residents of Denton take pride on on

2762
02:18:33,020 --> 02:18:34,440
their stream.

2763
02:18:34,440 --> 02:18:37,420
And when they see something that they don't look that is

2764
02:18:37,420 --> 02:18:39,440
normal, they really contact us.

2765
02:18:39,440 --> 02:18:43,639
So we receive, we have a hotline, the water shore

2766
02:18:43,639 --> 02:18:48,340
protection where people actually can call us and we will

2767
02:18:48,340 --> 02:18:49,440
respond.

2768
02:18:49,440 --> 02:18:55,290
So I think that for our experience as a staff, when we get

2769
02:18:55,290 --> 02:18:59,670
a complaint or some sort of indication, we go out from time

2770
02:18:59,670 --> 02:19:00,440
to time.

2771
02:19:00,440 --> 02:19:04,440
We walk our streams as a part of our monetary programs.

2772
02:19:04,440 --> 02:19:09,719
If we see something that is not as it should be, then we

2773
02:19:09,719 --> 02:19:11,860
will start looking and trying to find the source of the

2774
02:19:11,860 --> 02:19:12,440
problem.

2775
02:19:12,440 --> 02:19:15,090
At that time, we will also go back to the whoever's

2776
02:19:15,090 --> 02:19:17,440
retaining ownership of those devices.

2777
02:19:17,440 --> 02:19:21,450
So it is a combination of when we are boots in the ground

2778
02:19:21,450 --> 02:19:25,520
and when a resident make a phone call and we will respond

2779
02:19:25,520 --> 02:19:26,440
to that.

2780
02:19:26,440 --> 02:19:29,440
I think staff has a comment as well.

2781
02:19:29,440 --> 02:19:32,680
Correct me if I'm wrong, Deborah, but would we not also

2782
02:19:32,680 --> 02:19:36,200
require quarterly or annual reporting of the functionality

2783
02:19:36,200 --> 02:19:36,440
of?

2784
02:19:36,440 --> 02:19:38,440
We could.

2785
02:19:38,440 --> 02:19:41,309
Something similar that we have done with Razor Ranch is

2786
02:19:41,309 --> 02:19:44,440
that they supposed to do inspections on a regular basis.

2787
02:19:44,440 --> 02:19:47,500
Most of this device is the manufacturer have put a

2788
02:19:47,500 --> 02:19:50,879
maintenance program already and say this needs to be

2789
02:19:50,879 --> 02:19:52,440
cleaned this often.

2790
02:19:52,440 --> 02:19:58,200
And so on to maintain the effectiveness of the device

2791
02:19:58,200 --> 02:19:59,440
itself.

2792
02:19:59,440 --> 02:20:02,469
So probably they will get an indication from the

2793
02:20:02,469 --> 02:20:05,440
manufacturer how often it needs to be done.

2794
02:20:05,440 --> 02:20:10,149
If necessary, we can put something like we did in Razor

2795
02:20:10,149 --> 02:20:15,319
Ranch where we put actually a reporting schedule where once

2796
02:20:15,319 --> 02:20:19,440
a year you provide a copy of your inspection.

2797
02:20:19,440 --> 02:20:24,020
Because most of the time there are maintenance activity

2798
02:20:24,020 --> 02:20:28,340
that requires less activity and then on an annual basis

2799
02:20:28,340 --> 02:20:31,440
that inspection will be more involved.

2800
02:20:31,440 --> 02:20:35,110
So we can actually require some sort of reporting back to

2801
02:20:35,110 --> 02:20:36,440
us if necessary.

2802
02:20:36,440 --> 02:20:39,100
So those parameters could be inserted into the ordinance

2803
02:20:39,100 --> 02:20:41,440
with the alternative so should it be approved?

2804
02:20:41,440 --> 02:20:44,209
And that would be something similar to what Razor Ranch did

2805
02:20:44,209 --> 02:20:44,440
.

2806
02:20:44,440 --> 02:20:45,440
Correct.

2807
02:20:45,440 --> 02:20:47,440
Thank you, Deborah.

2808
02:20:47,440 --> 02:20:49,440
Thank you.

2809
02:20:49,440 --> 02:20:50,440
I have one other.

2810
02:20:50,440 --> 02:20:52,440
Commissioner Dadovitz.

2811
02:20:52,440 --> 02:20:55,100
I didn't want her to go away because my question may be

2812
02:20:55,100 --> 02:20:57,440
answered by you or Mr. Peterson.

2813
02:20:57,440 --> 02:21:02,389
According to the plan, we're going to put two of these

2814
02:21:02,389 --> 02:21:04,440
storm scepters in.

2815
02:21:04,440 --> 02:21:05,440
Why two?

2816
02:21:05,440 --> 02:21:07,840
And tell us how large these things are so we can get a

2817
02:21:07,840 --> 02:21:11,079
perspective of the dimension and are they capable of

2818
02:21:11,079 --> 02:21:14,440
handling what we're seeing or suggesting?

2819
02:21:14,440 --> 02:21:21,100
The systems are designed with a, I think Deborah's program

2820
02:21:21,100 --> 02:21:23,440
later has more information on it.

2821
02:21:23,440 --> 02:21:24,440
Are you going to show that?

2822
02:21:24,440 --> 02:21:27,440
Show your example of how the system works?

2823
02:21:27,440 --> 02:21:28,440
On the animation?

2824
02:21:28,440 --> 02:21:29,440
Yeah.

2825
02:21:29,440 --> 02:21:30,440
We could.

2826
02:21:30,440 --> 02:21:31,440
No, we've seen that.

2827
02:21:31,440 --> 02:21:34,659
My question is why two and what is the size of these storm

2828
02:21:34,659 --> 02:21:35,440
scepters?

2829
02:21:35,440 --> 02:21:36,440
Why two?

2830
02:21:36,440 --> 02:21:37,440
Is it four by four?

2831
02:21:37,440 --> 02:21:38,440
Is it 18 by 20?

2832
02:21:38,440 --> 02:21:39,440
I need a visual.

2833
02:21:39,440 --> 02:21:42,440
They are, the ones we're proposing are big cylinders.

2834
02:21:42,440 --> 02:21:45,719
They're about six foot in diameter and they range in size

2835
02:21:45,719 --> 02:21:49,770
from, depending on how much storage volume you want, they

2836
02:21:49,770 --> 02:21:52,440
go deeper because it's basically a wet well.

2837
02:21:52,440 --> 02:21:55,659
And so you go deeper in order to provide that volume that

2838
02:21:55,659 --> 02:21:56,440
you need.

2839
02:21:56,440 --> 02:21:58,440
That exact volume depth has not been determined yet.

2840
02:21:58,440 --> 02:22:00,440
We're still working on the plans.

2841
02:22:00,440 --> 02:22:04,399
And so what we're providing, what we're proposing too is

2842
02:22:04,399 --> 02:22:08,479
because we are trying to minimize the disturbance of water

2843
02:22:08,479 --> 02:22:12,540
's crossing or getting into the creek from both sides of the

2844
02:22:12,540 --> 02:22:13,440
creek.

2845
02:22:13,440 --> 02:22:15,389
So we've got one on either side of the creek in order to

2846
02:22:15,389 --> 02:22:17,440
treat the left side and the right side of the creek.

2847
02:22:17,440 --> 02:22:20,719
That way we don't have any water introducing into the creek

2848
02:22:20,719 --> 02:22:23,440
before it goes through one of these devices.

2849
02:22:23,440 --> 02:22:30,440
Now who's determined if two are enough versus three, four?

2850
02:22:30,440 --> 02:22:33,500
Those devices come in different sizes depending on the

2851
02:22:33,500 --> 02:22:35,440
volume that they want to treat.

2852
02:22:35,440 --> 02:22:39,670
Okay, the larger the volume, the larger the device, the

2853
02:22:39,670 --> 02:22:41,440
more expensive it is.

2854
02:22:41,440 --> 02:22:46,700
They have systems where if necessary they can put multiples

2855
02:22:46,700 --> 02:22:51,440
in line, like an in line system, a series system.

2856
02:22:51,440 --> 02:22:54,809
At this point I don't think that will be necessary based on

2857
02:22:54,809 --> 02:22:58,440
the drainage area that these devices will be collecting.

2858
02:22:58,440 --> 02:23:02,000
However, during the final plan is when we start looking

2859
02:23:02,000 --> 02:23:06,670
into all the drainage information, grading, runoff and all

2860
02:23:06,670 --> 02:23:07,440
that.

2861
02:23:07,440 --> 02:23:11,690
At that point, staff and the applicant will be better

2862
02:23:11,690 --> 02:23:15,440
suited to determine the size of the devices.

2863
02:23:15,440 --> 02:23:19,440
Thank you.

2864
02:23:19,440 --> 02:23:21,440
Commissioner Beck.

2865
02:23:21,440 --> 02:23:22,440
One last question here.

2866
02:23:22,440 --> 02:23:23,440
Yes, sir.

2867
02:23:23,440 --> 02:23:28,940
We had mentioned the impact that these 100-year rainfalls

2868
02:23:28,940 --> 02:23:30,440
will have on this.

2869
02:23:30,440 --> 02:23:33,719
And I'm not sure that they're going to be that infrequent

2870
02:23:33,719 --> 02:23:34,440
anymore.

2871
02:23:34,440 --> 02:23:36,440
We seem to get them more often.

2872
02:23:36,440 --> 02:23:40,360
Is there, are there any types of heavy rainfalls like that

2873
02:23:40,360 --> 02:23:43,440
that can overwhelm these storm scepters?

2874
02:23:43,440 --> 02:23:46,440
What can't they handle?

2875
02:23:46,440 --> 02:23:48,440
They can handle just about everything.

2876
02:23:48,440 --> 02:23:52,110
The way the system works, though, is once you get above the

2877
02:23:52,110 --> 02:23:56,030
desired treat volume, it starts to bypass the majority of

2878
02:23:56,030 --> 02:23:58,440
the flows and only take the heavy solids out.

2879
02:23:58,440 --> 02:24:02,559
And so the cyclone effect, the whirlpool as it will, is

2880
02:24:02,559 --> 02:24:06,899
going to draw down your heavy solids and your soils and all

2881
02:24:06,899 --> 02:24:08,440
the large contaminants.

2882
02:24:08,440 --> 02:24:11,030
And the water during these large events will be able to

2883
02:24:11,030 --> 02:24:12,440
pass through the system.

2884
02:24:12,440 --> 02:24:15,440
So it doesn't necessarily create a bottleneck.

2885
02:24:15,440 --> 02:24:20,440
It just is, it loses its efficiency than the larger events.

2886
02:24:20,440 --> 02:24:21,440
It loses its efficiency.

2887
02:24:21,440 --> 02:24:23,440
Yes, sir.

2888
02:24:23,440 --> 02:24:26,040
All these things are curvilinear based upon what you're

2889
02:24:26,040 --> 02:24:28,819
trying to treat and the allowable volume coming through the

2890
02:24:28,819 --> 02:24:29,440
system.

2891
02:24:29,440 --> 02:24:30,440
Okay.

2892
02:24:30,440 --> 02:24:31,440
Okay.

2893
02:24:31,440 --> 02:24:32,440
Thanks.

2894
02:24:32,440 --> 02:24:34,440
I have no further questions.

2895
02:24:34,440 --> 02:24:35,440
On the board.

2896
02:24:35,440 --> 02:24:36,440
Thank you.

2897
02:24:36,440 --> 02:24:46,659
At this time, we will call on Julie Wyatt for the staff

2898
02:24:46,659 --> 02:24:52,440
presentation on this item.

2899
02:24:52,440 --> 02:24:54,440
I'm just going to provide a summary to you.

2900
02:24:54,440 --> 02:24:55,440
It's not quite one slide.

2901
02:24:55,440 --> 02:25:02,440
It's a few slides, but I'll try to be quick about it.

2902
02:25:02,440 --> 02:25:05,440
Okay.

2903
02:25:05,440 --> 02:25:09,969
So this is an alternative development plan 16-2 for Buckeye

2904
02:25:09,969 --> 02:25:11,440
's Travel Center.

2905
02:25:11,440 --> 02:25:14,780
A summary of the request is the request before you is to

2906
02:25:14,780 --> 02:25:18,459
consider an alternative environmentally sensitive area plan

2907
02:25:18,459 --> 02:25:21,540
to allow for commercial development to encroach into an

2908
02:25:21,540 --> 02:25:24,440
existing ESA, environmentally sensitive area.

2909
02:25:24,440 --> 02:25:30,670
The disturbance would include approximately 13,134 square

2910
02:25:30,670 --> 02:25:35,360
feet of riparian habitat that would be impacted due to an

2911
02:25:35,360 --> 02:25:40,440
internal road system that is proposed by the applicant.

2912
02:25:40,440 --> 02:25:47,440
Within that riparian buffer, 24 trees would be removed.

2913
02:25:47,440 --> 02:25:51,930
Those existing trees provide 10,087 square feet of tree

2914
02:25:51,930 --> 02:25:55,440
canopy, which totals 311 caliper inches.

2915
02:25:55,440 --> 02:26:00,440
The zoning of the property is RCCD.

2916
02:26:00,440 --> 02:26:05,540
The mitigation that is proposed by the applicant in order

2917
02:26:05,540 --> 02:26:10,729
to offset the impacts of the riparian buffer is to preserve

2918
02:26:10,729 --> 02:26:16,940
approximately 3,149 square feet of upland habitat that's

2919
02:26:16,940 --> 02:26:19,440
adjacent to the existing riparian buffer.

2920
02:26:19,440 --> 02:26:24,280
Within that upland habitat, preserve 10 existing trees and

2921
02:26:24,280 --> 02:26:28,319
also plant eight additional trees to increase the tree

2922
02:26:28,319 --> 02:26:32,969
canopy, although the caliper inches will be smaller because

2923
02:26:32,969 --> 02:26:35,440
of the new trees would be spread out.

2924
02:26:35,440 --> 02:26:38,270
They would be allowed to reach their maximum height and

2925
02:26:38,270 --> 02:26:39,440
canopy potential.

2926
02:26:39,440 --> 02:26:42,870
So there would be an additional canopy, although there

2927
02:26:42,870 --> 02:26:44,440
would be fewer trees.

2928
02:26:44,440 --> 02:26:48,450
And also to add two storm scepters to treat the runoff,

2929
02:26:48,450 --> 02:26:51,440
which I think you all have discussed.

2930
02:26:51,440 --> 02:26:55,149
So I just want to go over the recommendation that staff has

2931
02:26:55,149 --> 02:26:59,110
based upon the criteria for approval in subchapter 17 of

2932
02:26:59,110 --> 02:27:01,440
the Denton Development Code.

2933
02:27:01,440 --> 02:27:04,840
Staff does recommend approval of the request subject to the

2934
02:27:04,840 --> 02:27:06,440
following conditions.

2935
02:27:06,440 --> 02:27:09,040
And I believe this condition was left off in the work

2936
02:27:09,040 --> 02:27:11,440
session, so I hurried in here and put it on.

2937
02:27:11,440 --> 02:27:15,299
So the first condition, it's in your backup, is that an

2938
02:27:15,299 --> 02:27:19,950
area equal to or greater than 13,149 square feet shall be

2939
02:27:19,950 --> 02:27:23,670
preserved in accordance with the ESA mitigation plan that's

2940
02:27:23,670 --> 02:27:25,440
provided in your backup.

2941
02:27:25,440 --> 02:27:29,110
No land disturbing activity as defined by the Denton

2942
02:27:29,110 --> 02:27:33,440
Development Code is permitted in this area to be preserved.

2943
02:27:33,440 --> 02:27:37,159
Within that preservation area and directly adjacent to it,

2944
02:27:37,159 --> 02:27:40,659
eight trees must be planted for the removal of the trees in

2945
02:27:40,659 --> 02:27:41,440
the ESA.

2946
02:27:41,440 --> 02:27:44,020
Each tree must be a large tree from the landscape plant

2947
02:27:44,020 --> 02:27:47,440
list, and that is from the City of Denton's plant list.

2948
02:27:47,440 --> 02:27:51,750
And the canopy size is 1256 square feet and a minimum of

2949
02:27:51,750 --> 02:27:54,440
two inches in diameter at planting.

2950
02:27:54,440 --> 02:27:56,950
The planted trees must be irrigated for a minimum of three

2951
02:27:56,950 --> 02:27:57,440
years.

2952
02:27:57,440 --> 02:28:00,500
If any tree that is planted is a part of this alternative E

2953
02:28:00,500 --> 02:28:03,670
SA plan dies, that tree must be immediately removed and

2954
02:28:03,670 --> 02:28:06,799
replaced with a large tree within the appropriate planting

2955
02:28:06,799 --> 02:28:07,440
season.

2956
02:28:07,440 --> 02:28:10,260
So for instance, if it dies in August, August may not be

2957
02:28:10,260 --> 02:28:13,200
the best time for that tree to be planted, usually the

2958
02:28:13,200 --> 02:28:15,440
cooler months are better times.

2959
02:28:15,440 --> 02:28:18,850
So there could be a lag there, but that was the intent of

2960
02:28:18,850 --> 02:28:19,440
that.

2961
02:28:19,440 --> 02:28:22,040
And that the ESA mitigation trees are in addition to the

2962
02:28:22,040 --> 02:28:24,879
percentage of tree canopy required by the governing zoning

2963
02:28:24,879 --> 02:28:25,440
district.

2964
02:28:25,440 --> 02:28:28,200
And that was really important to staff that we wanted to

2965
02:28:28,200 --> 02:28:30,950
make sure this was in addition to what would be required

2966
02:28:30,950 --> 02:28:32,440
for the zoning district.

2967
02:28:32,440 --> 02:28:35,450
Two storm scepters shall be installed according to the

2968
02:28:35,450 --> 02:28:39,010
manufacturer's recommendations in size for obtaining a

2969
02:28:39,010 --> 02:28:42,729
minimum pollutant removal efficiencies recommended by the I

2970
02:28:42,729 --> 02:28:44,440
-SWIM specifications.

2971
02:28:44,440 --> 02:28:48,219
The sizing and location would be determined at the final

2972
02:28:48,219 --> 02:28:52,440
plat stage of development due to the runoff calculations.

2973
02:28:52,440 --> 02:28:55,409
And all water quality protection facilities shall be

2974
02:28:55,409 --> 02:28:58,559
maintained by the property owner or maintenance entity

2975
02:28:58,559 --> 02:29:00,440
established for that purpose.

2976
02:29:00,440 --> 02:29:02,840
A description of the maintenance tasks, frequency of

2977
02:29:02,840 --> 02:29:05,590
maintenance, responsible parties for maintenance, funding

2978
02:29:05,590 --> 02:29:09,219
access, etc. shall be provided during the final plat stage

2979
02:29:09,219 --> 02:29:10,440
of development.

2980
02:29:10,440 --> 02:29:13,389
And then finally, where chronic or severe problems exist,

2981
02:29:13,389 --> 02:29:15,469
the owner does not, and the owner does not provide

2982
02:29:15,469 --> 02:29:18,100
maintenance or repairs, the city of Denton would have the

2983
02:29:18,100 --> 02:29:18,440
right.

2984
02:29:18,440 --> 02:29:21,670
But not the obligation to remedy the situation and recover

2985
02:29:21,670 --> 02:29:24,440
the cost for the work from that property owner.

2986
02:29:24,440 --> 02:29:29,440
And this authority would be established at the final plat.

2987
02:29:29,440 --> 02:29:34,440
And I'll stand for any questions.

2988
02:29:34,440 --> 02:29:35,440
Commissioner Rossell.

2989
02:29:35,440 --> 02:29:37,440
Thank you, Chair.

2990
02:29:37,440 --> 02:29:40,579
Can I get a clarification on, excuse me, the staff

2991
02:29:40,579 --> 02:29:42,440
recommendation point number two?

2992
02:29:42,440 --> 02:29:46,329
Should there not be a geographical definition of where

2993
02:29:46,329 --> 02:29:48,440
those eight trees belong?

2994
02:29:48,440 --> 02:29:49,440
Well, we discussed that.

2995
02:29:49,440 --> 02:29:53,540
And that was initially the way we wanted to go because we

2996
02:29:53,540 --> 02:29:57,440
thought here's a mitigation preservation area.

2997
02:29:57,440 --> 02:29:59,440
All of them should go in there.

2998
02:29:59,440 --> 02:30:05,559
But then in looking at, because the existing riparian

2999
02:30:05,559 --> 02:30:09,440
buffer has trees that are clustered very close together,

3000
02:30:09,440 --> 02:30:12,719
they can't reach their maximum potential of canopy and

3001
02:30:12,719 --> 02:30:13,440
height.

3002
02:30:13,440 --> 02:30:18,229
So, you know, taking that cue, we thought, okay, let's get

3003
02:30:18,229 --> 02:30:20,440
the canopy we need to get.

3004
02:30:20,440 --> 02:30:24,889
But let's provide a little bit of flexibility on where

3005
02:30:24,889 --> 02:30:27,440
those trees are going to go.

3006
02:30:27,440 --> 02:30:29,440
They need to go around this area.

3007
02:30:29,440 --> 02:30:32,600
But let's give a little flexibility on the exact location

3008
02:30:32,600 --> 02:30:35,909
of those trees to make sure they are planted in an optimal

3009
02:30:35,909 --> 02:30:38,440
location so that they can reach their maximum height

3010
02:30:38,440 --> 02:30:40,440
and canopy.

3011
02:30:40,440 --> 02:30:41,440
Sure.

3012
02:30:41,440 --> 02:30:45,979
I just wonder if it would be appropriate to maybe put

3013
02:30:45,979 --> 02:30:49,440
within or near the marked location.

3014
02:30:49,440 --> 02:30:52,379
That's certainly something that you could add within your

3015
02:30:52,379 --> 02:30:53,440
recommendation.

3016
02:30:53,440 --> 02:30:55,440
Thank you.

3017
02:30:55,440 --> 02:30:57,440
Commissioner Bruegel.

3018
02:30:57,440 --> 02:30:58,440
Thank you, Chair.

3019
02:30:58,440 --> 02:31:00,440
I know Commissioner Taylor was trying to ring in.

3020
02:31:00,440 --> 02:31:01,440
No?

3021
02:31:01,440 --> 02:31:02,440
Okay.

3022
02:31:02,440 --> 02:31:03,440
Well, no, it's fine.

3023
02:31:03,440 --> 02:31:05,010
I just wanted to see the concept plan again because unless

3024
02:31:05,010 --> 02:31:06,440
I missed it, I didn't see that in our backup.

3025
02:31:06,440 --> 02:31:08,440
And I wanted to look at that one more time.

3026
02:31:08,440 --> 02:31:10,149
And you can ask your question, Devon, while I'm looking at

3027
02:31:10,149 --> 02:31:10,440
this.

3028
02:31:10,440 --> 02:31:11,440
Is that cool?

3029
02:31:11,440 --> 02:31:13,440
Oh, darn it.

3030
02:31:13,440 --> 02:31:14,440
Okay.

3031
02:31:14,440 --> 02:31:15,440
Hold on.

3032
02:31:15,440 --> 02:31:17,440
Just give me a second.

3033
02:31:17,440 --> 02:31:21,100
Are there -- so are there two -- there's -- on this, we see

3034
02:31:21,100 --> 02:31:23,440
three entrance and exit points.

3035
02:31:23,440 --> 02:31:24,440
Is that correct?

3036
02:31:24,440 --> 02:31:25,440
Yes.

3037
02:31:25,440 --> 02:31:26,440
Here, here.

3038
02:31:26,440 --> 02:31:27,440
Once again, this is from last fall.

3039
02:31:27,440 --> 02:31:28,440
This is the information I had then.

3040
02:31:28,440 --> 02:31:35,440
So there could be changes.

3041
02:31:35,440 --> 02:31:36,440
Okay.

3042
02:31:36,440 --> 02:31:37,440
All right.

3043
02:31:37,440 --> 02:31:38,440
Thank you.

3044
02:31:38,440 --> 02:31:39,440
Sure.

3045
02:31:39,440 --> 02:31:40,440
Commissioner Taylor.

3046
02:31:40,440 --> 02:31:41,440
Thank you, Chair.

3047
02:31:41,440 --> 02:31:43,690
So in the work session, you showed a table of the proposed

3048
02:31:43,690 --> 02:31:44,440
mitigations.

3049
02:31:44,440 --> 02:31:45,440
Could you bring that up?

3050
02:31:45,440 --> 02:31:46,440
Sure.

3051
02:31:46,440 --> 02:31:47,440
Is this it?

3052
02:31:47,440 --> 02:31:48,440
Yeah, this is the one.

3053
02:31:48,440 --> 02:31:52,319
So I was looking at this, and I believe there was a comment

3054
02:31:52,319 --> 02:31:54,440
earlier that mitigating more

3055
02:31:54,440 --> 02:31:56,440
area than we're disturbing.

3056
02:31:56,440 --> 02:32:00,690
And I just wanted to point out that that's approximately 0.

3057
02:32:00,690 --> 02:32:03,440
1% more area than we're disturbing.

3058
02:32:03,440 --> 02:32:07,440
More area being mitigated than is being disturbed.

3059
02:32:07,440 --> 02:32:12,200
And the 24 trees is being mitigated by 10 existing 8 two-

3060
02:32:12,200 --> 02:32:14,440
inch trees will be planted.

3061
02:32:14,440 --> 02:32:17,950
And this caliper inches, you know, it's -- we're reducing

3062
02:32:17,950 --> 02:32:20,440
the caliper inches by, you know,

3063
02:32:20,440 --> 02:32:22,440
a third or more.

3064
02:32:22,440 --> 02:32:25,340
And then we have this really fun tree canopy calculation

3065
02:32:25,340 --> 02:32:27,440
because we only have 13,000 square

3066
02:32:27,440 --> 02:32:31,930
feet, but we're going to put 20,000 square feet of canopy

3067
02:32:31,930 --> 02:32:32,440
in them because we're saying,

3068
02:32:32,440 --> 02:32:38,420
when this tree gets full size, it'll have 1,200 or 1,600

3069
02:32:38,420 --> 02:32:40,440
square feet of canopy.

3070
02:32:40,440 --> 02:32:41,440
But that's --

3071
02:32:41,440 --> 02:32:45,690
Well, and that -- and I think that speaks to, I think,

3072
02:32:45,690 --> 02:32:48,440
Commissioner Roselle's comment that

3073
02:32:48,440 --> 02:32:51,909
all of those trees aren't going to go specifically within

3074
02:32:51,909 --> 02:32:54,440
that preservation area because they

3075
02:32:54,440 --> 02:32:59,440
couldn't all fit and still meet their maximum potential.

3076
02:32:59,440 --> 02:33:01,780
So they're going to be -- they aren't going to all fit

3077
02:33:01,780 --> 02:33:03,440
within that preservation area.

3078
02:33:03,440 --> 02:33:05,440
There may be some outside of it.

3079
02:33:05,440 --> 02:33:07,760
So the canopy is actually -- the proposed canopy is

3080
02:33:07,760 --> 02:33:09,440
actually bigger than the proposed

3081
02:33:09,440 --> 02:33:12,440
mitigation area just due to that fact.

3082
02:33:12,440 --> 02:33:14,440
And that would be at maturation.

3083
02:33:14,440 --> 02:33:17,909
That would be in 40 or 50 years when the tree is 80 feet

3084
02:33:17,909 --> 02:33:18,440
tall.

3085
02:33:18,440 --> 02:33:21,440
So normally we see a few of these.

3086
02:33:21,440 --> 02:33:25,379
And the one that comes to mind in this neighborhood was

3087
02:33:25,379 --> 02:33:27,440
actually Unicorn Lake.

3088
02:33:27,440 --> 02:33:29,979
And they had a similar situation they needed to put in a

3089
02:33:29,979 --> 02:33:30,440
road.

3090
02:33:30,440 --> 02:33:32,680
And their first proposal was about a three-to-one

3091
02:33:32,680 --> 02:33:33,440
mitigation.

3092
02:33:33,440 --> 02:33:36,850
So they were mitigating almost three times as much area as

3093
02:33:36,850 --> 02:33:38,440
they were disturbing.

3094
02:33:38,440 --> 02:33:41,840
You know, and a pretty common one, I think, is maybe a 50%

3095
02:33:41,840 --> 02:33:43,440
additional mitigation.

3096
02:33:43,440 --> 02:33:46,639
Was there any discussion with the applicant about

3097
02:33:46,639 --> 02:33:51,440
preserving maybe a bank buffer along

3098
02:33:51,440 --> 02:33:58,110
the lake or extending the mitigation area further southeast

3099
02:33:58,110 --> 02:34:00,440
, you know, another 100 feet

3100
02:34:00,440 --> 02:34:05,229
and adding another several -- you know, 1,000 square feet

3101
02:34:05,229 --> 02:34:06,440
or something?

3102
02:34:06,440 --> 02:34:08,440
We did have conversations.

3103
02:34:08,440 --> 02:34:14,180
And because of their concept and their proposed development

3104
02:34:14,180 --> 02:34:17,440
, they had limitations as to what

3105
02:34:17,440 --> 02:34:21,639
they could preserve, which is why we talked to them about

3106
02:34:21,639 --> 02:34:23,440
the green and gray solutions.

3107
02:34:23,440 --> 02:34:27,409
Because we kind of looked at this as trying to use

3108
02:34:27,409 --> 02:34:30,440
technology in order to mimic what a

3109
02:34:30,440 --> 02:34:32,440
riparian buffer does.

3110
02:34:32,440 --> 02:34:36,450
So we tried to look at it from that, not just the green,

3111
02:34:36,450 --> 02:34:38,440
not just square footage, but what

3112
02:34:38,440 --> 02:34:40,440
does it mean?

3113
02:34:40,440 --> 02:34:45,239
And the storm scepters would work to facilitate to clean

3114
02:34:45,239 --> 02:34:46,440
the water.

3115
02:34:46,440 --> 02:34:54,659
>> So in this case, would the stormwater interception not

3116
02:34:54,659 --> 02:34:58,440
be required except by this ESA?

3117
02:34:58,440 --> 02:35:01,440
Like normally we would allow the parking lot to drain?

3118
02:35:01,440 --> 02:35:02,440
>> No.

3119
02:35:02,440 --> 02:35:03,440
>> Okay.

3120
02:35:03,440 --> 02:35:05,440
That makes a little more sense.

3121
02:35:05,440 --> 02:35:09,569
And I was also curious about -- right now I believe the

3122
02:35:09,569 --> 02:35:12,440
plat has a 50-foot access easement,

3123
02:35:12,440 --> 02:35:13,440
private road.

3124
02:35:13,440 --> 02:35:14,440
>> I'm sorry.

3125
02:35:14,440 --> 02:35:16,440
>> A 50-foot wide access easement?

3126
02:35:16,440 --> 02:35:18,440
Is that the plan?

3127
02:35:18,440 --> 02:35:19,440
>> Yes, sir.

3128
02:35:19,440 --> 02:35:22,440
>> And it appears to have about a 32-foot wide roadway?

3129
02:35:22,440 --> 02:35:26,299
Is that just by the schematic that's floated around, it's

3130
02:35:26,299 --> 02:35:28,440
two lanes with the turn lane?

3131
02:35:28,440 --> 02:35:31,090
>> You know, the engineer would probably be a better person

3132
02:35:31,090 --> 02:35:32,440
to answer the exact because

3133
02:35:32,440 --> 02:35:37,440
we're kind of looking at more just what's being dedicated.

3134
02:35:37,440 --> 02:35:40,379
So he can probably talk to you better about what the design

3135
02:35:40,379 --> 02:35:41,440
will be for that.

3136
02:35:41,440 --> 02:35:42,440
>> Okay.

3137
02:35:42,440 --> 02:35:44,440
And one final question I brought up in the work session.

3138
02:35:44,440 --> 02:35:46,440
I just want to bring it up here.

3139
02:35:46,440 --> 02:35:52,440
The -- there is a residential overlay protection on this.

3140
02:35:52,440 --> 02:35:55,440
Could we zoom into that?

3141
02:35:55,440 --> 02:35:57,440
>> Is that better?

3142
02:35:57,440 --> 02:36:03,440
>> I think one of the ESA plan maps, I think, has it?

3143
02:36:03,440 --> 02:36:04,440
>> Here we go.

3144
02:36:04,440 --> 02:36:05,440
>> Here you go.

3145
02:36:05,440 --> 02:36:06,440
>> Yes.

3146
02:36:06,440 --> 02:36:10,569
>> For the overlay, there is a 50-foot landscape buffer

3147
02:36:10,569 --> 02:36:15,440
that is required adjacent to the residential properties.

3148
02:36:15,440 --> 02:36:19,100
This is, as you can see, it does go a little bit into that

3149
02:36:19,100 --> 02:36:20,440
access easement.

3150
02:36:20,440 --> 02:36:23,590
That access easement doesn't preclude them from meeting

3151
02:36:23,590 --> 02:36:25,440
that ordinance requirement.

3152
02:36:25,440 --> 02:36:27,670
>> So when you say that, you said access easement doesn't

3153
02:36:27,670 --> 02:36:28,440
preclude them.

3154
02:36:28,440 --> 02:36:30,440
Does pavement?

3155
02:36:30,440 --> 02:36:32,440
>> They could not put pavement in that.

3156
02:36:32,440 --> 02:36:34,440
They would have to have that -- meet that landscape buffer.

3157
02:36:34,440 --> 02:36:36,930
So their road would have to be located within that access

3158
02:36:36,930 --> 02:36:41,040
easement that still allows them to meet that buffer

3159
02:36:41,040 --> 02:36:42,440
requirement.

3160
02:36:42,440 --> 02:36:43,440
>> Yeah.

3161
02:36:43,440 --> 02:36:46,829
So I look at this, and I wonder if we reduce -- if that

3162
02:36:46,829 --> 02:36:51,059
access easement was reduced from 50 to roughly the size of

3163
02:36:51,059 --> 02:36:53,440
the street, approximately 30 or 35,

3164
02:36:53,440 --> 02:36:57,750
then there would -- you would gain a strip across the

3165
02:36:57,750 --> 02:37:02,639
bottom several hundred feet wide, at least the width of --

3166
02:37:02,639 --> 02:37:04,440
is that lot three? And some of lot two over there?

3167
02:37:04,440 --> 02:37:12,440
So I'm not comfortable with the .1% additional mitigation.

3168
02:37:12,440 --> 02:37:14,440
And I think there's some problems just with this layout.

3169
02:37:14,440 --> 02:37:16,440
We know that road is going to have to move.

3170
02:37:16,440 --> 02:37:19,500
When it moves, it's going to change the number of square

3171
02:37:19,500 --> 02:37:21,440
feet that need to be mitigated.

3172
02:37:21,440 --> 02:37:22,440
>> And that's a really good question.

3173
02:37:22,440 --> 02:37:25,440
We discussed that with the applicant because, you know,

3174
02:37:25,440 --> 02:37:30,360
because this is very early in the process, which is if you

3175
02:37:30,360 --> 02:37:31,440
can see,

3176
02:37:31,440 --> 02:37:34,110
the disturbance area that they're actually showing is

3177
02:37:34,110 --> 02:37:36,879
impacted is much greater than what they're showing is the

3178
02:37:36,879 --> 02:37:37,440
road.

3179
02:37:37,440 --> 02:37:41,299
So they wanted to make sure that they compensated for that

3180
02:37:41,299 --> 02:37:42,440
at this time.

3181
02:37:42,440 --> 02:37:46,110
If it does change, it would be required to come back and

3182
02:37:46,110 --> 02:37:48,440
get approval from city council.

3183
02:37:48,440 --> 02:37:51,280
So that is something that we have discussed with them and

3184
02:37:51,280 --> 02:37:54,440
they're aware of that if anything on the property changes,

3185
02:37:54,440 --> 02:37:59,540
it goes outside of the boundaries, then that would require

3186
02:37:59,540 --> 02:38:01,440
another approval.

3187
02:38:01,440 --> 02:38:05,139
>> So just to clarify, this map right here would be binding

3188
02:38:05,139 --> 02:38:05,440
.

3189
02:38:05,440 --> 02:38:07,440
And so the exact points on this map.

3190
02:38:07,440 --> 02:38:10,850
And so as long as they stay within that disturbed area and

3191
02:38:10,850 --> 02:38:14,459
out of -- and inside the access easement and out of that

3192
02:38:14,459 --> 02:38:16,440
little corner of -- okay.

3193
02:38:16,440 --> 02:38:18,440
>> Correct.

3194
02:38:18,440 --> 02:38:20,840
Well, and also because I spoke with the applicant after

3195
02:38:20,840 --> 02:38:23,459
work session and that access easement is also including

3196
02:38:23,459 --> 02:38:27,440
sidewalk areas and so pedestrian facilities as well.

3197
02:38:27,440 --> 02:38:30,440
So it's not just going to be road within that.

3198
02:38:30,440 --> 02:38:35,459
It would be also pedestrian facilities and room for their,

3199
02:38:35,459 --> 02:38:39,440
you know, trees and their landscape buffer.

3200
02:38:39,440 --> 02:38:42,440
>> A question.

3201
02:38:42,440 --> 02:38:45,309
>> Per your comment, just then, that's a maximum size that

3202
02:38:45,309 --> 02:38:46,440
they can disturb.

3203
02:38:46,440 --> 02:38:49,790
They can certainly disturb less if they don't need the

3204
02:38:49,790 --> 02:38:50,440
space.

3205
02:38:50,440 --> 02:38:53,540
So they've probably oversized that to give them working

3206
02:38:53,540 --> 02:38:56,440
space and they may not need to disturb that much.

3207
02:38:56,440 --> 02:38:57,440
>> Right.

3208
02:38:57,440 --> 02:38:58,440
But if they did disturb more.

3209
02:38:58,440 --> 02:38:59,440
>> Correct.

3210
02:38:59,440 --> 02:39:03,149
And then to follow up, we've had a lot of questions and

3211
02:39:03,149 --> 02:39:05,440
conversations about the storm interceptors.

3212
02:39:05,440 --> 02:39:09,690
What is the function of the pond itself as a natural

3213
02:39:09,690 --> 02:39:13,440
facility to do that same sort of process?

3214
02:39:13,440 --> 02:39:24,649
>> I'm going to have to ask Deborah for her expertise on

3215
02:39:24,649 --> 02:39:27,440
the ponds.

3216
02:39:27,440 --> 02:39:30,440
>> Any time that you allow water to slow down in velocity,

3217
02:39:30,440 --> 02:39:34,440
any -- any -- any sediments that are carried by water that

3218
02:39:34,440 --> 02:39:34,440
slow down,

3219
02:39:34,440 --> 02:39:37,440
that allows the sediment to get out of solution.

3220
02:39:37,440 --> 02:39:42,120
So pretty much you will see that the sediments will get to

3221
02:39:42,120 --> 02:39:45,440
the bottom of the pond and stay there.

3222
02:39:45,440 --> 02:39:51,440
I don't see an outfall of this detention pond.

3223
02:39:51,440 --> 02:39:52,440
I don't know.

3224
02:39:52,440 --> 02:39:56,799
I'm sure that it would be designed to hold the water and

3225
02:39:56,799 --> 02:39:58,440
empty if necessary.

3226
02:39:58,440 --> 02:40:01,370
And I'm sure the time will come when they will have to do

3227
02:40:01,370 --> 02:40:04,879
maintenance to that pond and remove those sediments to just

3228
02:40:04,879 --> 02:40:07,440
maintain the capacity of the pond itself.

3229
02:40:07,440 --> 02:40:10,719
But every time that you hold water, then that allows the

3230
02:40:10,719 --> 02:40:14,440
settlements to settle out of solution and be at the bottom.

3231
02:40:14,440 --> 02:40:18,149
>> So effectively on the pond, I know there's been some

3232
02:40:18,149 --> 02:40:22,250
concerns if the storm interceptors don't work or they're

3233
02:40:22,250 --> 02:40:23,440
overwhelmed,

3234
02:40:23,440 --> 02:40:27,649
this pond is going to act as a natural backup system to

3235
02:40:27,649 --> 02:40:29,440
those facilities.

3236
02:40:29,440 --> 02:40:33,440
>> It will hold them.

3237
02:40:33,440 --> 02:40:38,459
And the visual will be more evident because we will see,

3238
02:40:38,459 --> 02:40:42,559
for example, we start seeing fat and oils that creates a

3239
02:40:42,559 --> 02:40:46,440
surface sheen that will be visible at the pond.

3240
02:40:46,440 --> 02:40:50,110
If we're going to start, if they are not able to collect

3241
02:40:50,110 --> 02:40:53,780
the floatables, then the floatables will end up at that

3242
02:40:53,780 --> 02:40:54,440
pond.

3243
02:40:54,440 --> 02:40:58,149
So I think that for the sake of the aesthetic of the

3244
02:40:58,149 --> 02:41:03,440
development and how pleased the users of the site,

3245
02:41:03,440 --> 02:41:07,360
it will be for their own benefit to just to keep it clean

3246
02:41:07,360 --> 02:41:09,440
and keep it maintained.

3247
02:41:09,440 --> 02:41:12,479
>> And the capacity of that pond is going to be far in

3248
02:41:12,479 --> 02:41:16,059
excess of what the capacity of those two storm scepters are

3249
02:41:16,059 --> 02:41:16,440
.

3250
02:41:16,440 --> 02:41:18,440
>> Probably so, yeah.

3251
02:41:18,440 --> 02:41:20,979
Just remember, the storm scepters, they fill in and they're

3252
02:41:20,979 --> 02:41:21,440
empty.

3253
02:41:21,440 --> 02:41:22,440
They fill in and they're empty.

3254
02:41:22,440 --> 02:41:25,440
So that's pretty much the process.

3255
02:41:25,440 --> 02:41:26,440
>> Thank you.

3256
02:41:26,440 --> 02:41:27,440
I've got a couple more questions.

3257
02:41:27,440 --> 02:41:31,440
I don't know who will be staffed to address these.

3258
02:41:31,440 --> 02:41:36,440
Commissioner Taylor.

3259
02:41:36,440 --> 02:41:37,440
>> Thank you, Chair.

3260
02:41:37,440 --> 02:41:42,520
I believe these questions, basically I'd like to follow up

3261
02:41:42,520 --> 02:41:45,440
with the engineer if you could.

3262
02:41:45,440 --> 02:41:52,479
So using this diagram here, this map here, if you know that

3263
02:41:52,479 --> 02:41:56,440
you're going to have to shift the planned road slightly,

3264
02:41:56,440 --> 02:42:04,440
10 feet or whatever that is, would it be possible?

3265
02:42:04,440 --> 02:42:08,520
I guess what I'd like to see, the final plan and the final

3266
02:42:08,520 --> 02:42:10,440
amount of disturbed area

3267
02:42:10,440 --> 02:42:16,010
and any additional area that would then be preserved to the

3268
02:42:16,010 --> 02:42:17,440
southwest.

3269
02:42:17,440 --> 02:42:20,500
So are you planning on moving the road or making the road

3270
02:42:20,500 --> 02:42:22,440
narrower to clear that corner?

3271
02:42:22,440 --> 02:42:25,709
>> Yeah, the road structure itself will be smaller in this

3272
02:42:25,709 --> 02:42:26,440
segment.

3273
02:42:26,440 --> 02:42:30,690
We have an oversized road section to provide maximum in

3274
02:42:30,690 --> 02:42:32,440
front of our store.

3275
02:42:32,440 --> 02:42:35,809
The other components of it, the pedestrian and the landsca

3276
02:42:35,809 --> 02:42:38,440
ping would be thus increased in this area.

3277
02:42:38,440 --> 02:42:41,440
But the disturbance is not just tied to the street.

3278
02:42:41,440 --> 02:42:43,840
It's tied to the other utilities that are being placed in

3279
02:42:43,840 --> 02:42:44,440
this area.

3280
02:42:44,440 --> 02:42:47,620
And so those utilities will still be trenched through, if

3281
02:42:47,620 --> 02:42:50,969
you will, laid and connected to the infrastructure of the

3282
02:42:50,969 --> 02:42:51,440
city.

3283
02:42:51,440 --> 02:42:54,979
So the disturbed area, what we've done is we have provided

3284
02:42:54,979 --> 02:42:56,440
a little bit of a buffer,

3285
02:42:56,440 --> 02:42:59,200
but that's just normal with the work zone because you don't

3286
02:42:59,200 --> 02:43:01,440
know if Junior is going to jump over the fence or not.

3287
02:43:01,440 --> 02:43:03,739
So you provide yourself with a little bit of a buffer, a

3288
02:43:03,739 --> 02:43:04,440
safety zone.

3289
02:43:04,440 --> 02:43:06,649
And so that's what we've done and that's what we're

3290
02:43:06,649 --> 02:43:07,440
requesting.

3291
02:43:07,440 --> 02:43:09,440
>> And could you address the sewer?

3292
02:43:09,440 --> 02:43:13,100
I'm guessing just by looking at the utility map in this

3293
02:43:13,100 --> 02:43:13,440
area,

3294
02:43:13,440 --> 02:43:16,290
it looks like there's a sewer line that comes out kind of

3295
02:43:16,290 --> 02:43:17,440
behind the Goodwill.

3296
02:43:17,440 --> 02:43:21,389
And then there's a planned sewer line where the apartment

3297
02:43:21,389 --> 02:43:23,440
complex to the south of you is.

3298
02:43:23,440 --> 02:43:26,209
And it looks like we're not running this, the sewer wouldn

3299
02:43:26,209 --> 02:43:27,440
't run down I-35.

3300
02:43:27,440 --> 02:43:30,440
It looks like it needs to run through the middle of your...

3301
02:43:30,440 --> 02:43:31,440
>> Yes, sir.

3302
02:43:31,440 --> 02:43:33,920
The route, that's part of what was in the earlier question

3303
02:43:33,920 --> 02:43:34,440
that we had,

3304
02:43:34,440 --> 02:43:36,840
is that this route was chosen for all those different

3305
02:43:36,840 --> 02:43:37,440
factors.

3306
02:43:37,440 --> 02:43:40,739
The sanitary sewer, which is relatively shallow on our

3307
02:43:40,739 --> 02:43:41,440
south side,

3308
02:43:41,440 --> 02:43:44,579
is where we're reconnecting behind my flooring America and

3309
02:43:44,579 --> 02:43:47,440
bringing that system northbound,

3310
02:43:47,440 --> 02:43:50,440
parallel, underneath this road, parallel to 35.

3311
02:43:50,440 --> 02:43:53,319
The water system is pulling from a 12-inch sub that's

3312
02:43:53,319 --> 02:43:54,440
coming from a dead end,

3313
02:43:54,440 --> 02:43:57,540
and we're looping it back into the city system to provide

3314
02:43:57,540 --> 02:44:00,440
for fire capacity as well as emergency provisions

3315
02:44:00,440 --> 02:44:04,440
and providing a portable service to the entire system.

3316
02:44:04,440 --> 02:44:06,440
>> That all runs under your plan to roadway here?

3317
02:44:06,440 --> 02:44:07,440
>> Yes, sir.

3318
02:44:07,440 --> 02:44:09,440
It's consolidated everything underneath there.

3319
02:44:09,440 --> 02:44:10,440
>> Thank you.

3320
02:44:10,440 --> 02:44:11,440
>> Yep.

3321
02:44:11,440 --> 02:44:13,440
>> Commissioner Dudowitz.

3322
02:44:13,440 --> 02:44:16,440
>> Deborah, I'm going to need you again.

3323
02:44:16,440 --> 02:44:18,760
Deborah did a very good job in our work session to explain

3324
02:44:18,760 --> 02:44:21,459
a couple of questions I think that the audience might have

3325
02:44:21,459 --> 02:44:22,440
and we had also.

3326
02:44:22,440 --> 02:44:25,209
And that is the last time an assessment was done of this

3327
02:44:25,209 --> 02:44:28,440
area was 2008, and we have not done one since.

3328
02:44:28,440 --> 02:44:31,979
And the question is why and what information do you have

3329
02:44:31,979 --> 02:44:34,440
now to believe that it is what it is?

3330
02:44:34,440 --> 02:44:35,440
>> Okay.

3331
02:44:35,440 --> 02:44:41,440
In 2008, the city, the proposed development for this area

3332
02:44:41,440 --> 02:44:44,440
requested a field assessment.

3333
02:44:44,440 --> 02:44:46,440
It was done by a third party who did it.

3334
02:44:46,440 --> 02:44:50,180
At that time, the field assessment reported that the

3335
02:44:50,180 --> 02:44:52,440
habitat was of good quality.

3336
02:44:52,440 --> 02:44:53,440
Okay.

3337
02:44:53,440 --> 02:44:58,389
The city of Denton have a system of rating, repair and

3338
02:44:58,389 --> 02:44:59,440
buffer.

3339
02:44:59,440 --> 02:45:02,440
The rating goes from poor all the way to excellent.

3340
02:45:02,440 --> 02:45:06,440
This being good since the second down.

3341
02:45:06,440 --> 02:45:10,440
Since 2008, there have been no changes in that area.

3342
02:45:10,440 --> 02:45:13,409
I'm going to show some aerial photograph so that way you

3343
02:45:13,409 --> 02:45:16,440
will see that nothing in the adjacency of the repair and

3344
02:45:16,440 --> 02:45:16,440
buffer,

3345
02:45:16,440 --> 02:45:19,799
nothing upstream of the repair and buffer have changed that

3346
02:45:19,799 --> 02:45:24,129
make us believe that the changes, there have been changes

3347
02:45:24,129 --> 02:45:25,440
in the habitat.

3348
02:45:25,440 --> 02:45:29,440
This is 2009, 2011 at the bottom.

3349
02:45:29,440 --> 02:45:32,440
We're going across 2013 and 2015.

3350
02:45:32,440 --> 02:45:37,790
The other important factor here is the ESA regulation doesn

3351
02:45:37,790 --> 02:45:42,440
't make distinction between a poor repair and buffer

3352
02:45:42,440 --> 02:45:45,479
or an excellent repair and buffer when it comes down to

3353
02:45:45,479 --> 02:45:46,440
mitigation.

3354
02:45:46,440 --> 02:45:52,440
So let's say that the condition has changed to be poor.

3355
02:45:52,440 --> 02:45:55,870
The applicant will still be required to go through this

3356
02:45:55,870 --> 02:45:59,219
process and provide mitigation disregard of the quality of

3357
02:45:59,219 --> 02:46:00,440
the repair and buffer.

3358
02:46:00,440 --> 02:46:06,440
So that's why another assessment was not done.

3359
02:46:06,440 --> 02:46:08,440
Staff went to the side.

3360
02:46:08,440 --> 02:46:11,559
We did a visual which actually make us believe that the

3361
02:46:11,559 --> 02:46:14,559
repair and buffer are still there performing their

3362
02:46:14,559 --> 02:46:15,440
functions.

3363
02:46:15,440 --> 02:46:18,750
The tree survey performed by the applicant still show a

3364
02:46:18,750 --> 02:46:20,440
heavily vegetated area.

3365
02:46:20,440 --> 02:46:24,579
So all those factors tells something about the existing

3366
02:46:24,579 --> 02:46:28,440
condition and is those conditions have not changed

3367
02:46:28,440 --> 02:46:32,590
to make us believe that we need to go and assess the area

3368
02:46:32,590 --> 02:46:33,440
again.

3369
02:46:33,440 --> 02:46:35,440
Thank you.

3370
02:46:35,440 --> 02:46:38,299
At this time I don't see any other questions from our

3371
02:46:38,299 --> 02:46:39,440
commissioners.

3372
02:46:39,440 --> 02:46:41,440
This is a public hearing.

3373
02:46:41,440 --> 02:46:45,440
At this time I have three cards requesting to speak.

3374
02:46:45,440 --> 02:46:49,450
If anyone else besides, if you haven't filled out a card

3375
02:46:49,450 --> 02:46:51,969
and you would like to speak, you will need to fill out a

3376
02:46:51,969 --> 02:46:52,440
card.

3377
02:46:52,440 --> 02:46:55,709
You'll have three minutes, excuse me, four minutes to speak

3378
02:46:55,709 --> 02:46:56,440
on your item.

3379
02:46:56,440 --> 02:46:59,450
And when you come up if you'll give your name and address

3380
02:46:59,450 --> 02:47:02,440
as you begin your comments we would appreciate it.

3381
02:47:02,440 --> 02:47:07,440
Our first comment will be from Pete Hammerly.

3382
02:47:07,440 --> 02:47:15,200
He is in opposition and he will be followed by Lisa Rosen

3383
02:47:15,200 --> 02:47:16,440
berg.

3384
02:47:16,440 --> 02:47:17,440
Thank you very much.

3385
02:47:17,440 --> 02:47:20,459
I appreciate all the efforts that this group has put into

3386
02:47:20,459 --> 02:47:21,440
this project.

3387
02:47:21,440 --> 02:47:25,440
I've been sitting in your seat times past.

3388
02:47:25,440 --> 02:47:28,440
I know the personal sacrifice that you make.

3389
02:47:28,440 --> 02:47:32,700
My name is Pete Hammerly and I own the house at 2817 Val

3390
02:47:32,700 --> 02:47:33,440
encia.

3391
02:47:33,440 --> 02:47:35,770
According to the map that I just saw and I admit I'm a

3392
02:47:35,770 --> 02:47:37,440
little late to these discussions,

3393
02:47:37,440 --> 02:47:42,440
my house backs up to what appears to be the car wash area.

3394
02:47:42,440 --> 02:47:46,500
Now I'm assuming that of the 96 fuel pumps that some of

3395
02:47:46,500 --> 02:47:48,440
those pumps are diesel.

3396
02:47:48,440 --> 02:47:49,440
Is that correct?

3397
02:47:49,440 --> 02:47:51,440
Can anybody here give me the answer to that?

3398
02:47:51,440 --> 02:47:54,440
Yes.

3399
02:47:54,440 --> 02:47:56,440
That's my point.

3400
02:47:56,440 --> 02:48:04,200
You see I own a 40 foot diesel RV bus and I tow a Jeep Cher

3401
02:48:04,200 --> 02:48:05,440
okee.

3402
02:48:05,440 --> 02:48:12,040
You don't want me fueling up at this facility because when

3403
02:48:12,040 --> 02:48:14,440
I come in it's a lot of noise,

3404
02:48:14,440 --> 02:48:18,959
it's a lot of air brakes, it's a lot of fumes, but more

3405
02:48:18,959 --> 02:48:21,440
importantly it's a lot of vibration.

3406
02:48:21,440 --> 02:48:25,590
I can tell you that when I come in and I pass around the

3407
02:48:25,590 --> 02:48:29,440
facility, people are going to feel it.

3408
02:48:29,440 --> 02:48:31,440
Their windows are going to shake.

3409
02:48:31,440 --> 02:48:36,440
Even glass in their showers are going to shake.

3410
02:48:36,440 --> 02:48:38,969
And sometimes when we travel I'll actually spend the night

3411
02:48:38,969 --> 02:48:39,440
there.

3412
02:48:39,440 --> 02:48:44,700
I'll pull back around and put the air brake on, let the air

3413
02:48:44,700 --> 02:48:46,440
out of the bags,

3414
02:48:46,440 --> 02:48:48,440
and spend a couple of hours there.

3415
02:48:48,440 --> 02:48:51,229
The only thing that means is at 3 or 4 o'clock in the

3416
02:48:51,229 --> 02:48:53,440
morning I'm starting all this back up.

3417
02:48:53,440 --> 02:48:56,440
That's noise again.

3418
02:48:56,440 --> 02:48:59,500
And people that live close by are really going to hear it,

3419
02:48:59,500 --> 02:49:01,440
but even people that live further out,

3420
02:49:01,440 --> 02:49:03,440
you're going to hear this.

3421
02:49:03,440 --> 02:49:05,440
You're going to smell the fumes.

3422
02:49:05,440 --> 02:49:08,440
You're going to feel the vibration.

3423
02:49:08,440 --> 02:49:12,510
Now it's been said that of course a facility like this,

3424
02:49:12,510 --> 02:49:14,680
that there are 18 wheelers that come in to service the

3425
02:49:14,680 --> 02:49:15,440
facility.

3426
02:49:15,440 --> 02:49:17,440
Right sir?

3427
02:49:17,440 --> 02:49:18,440
Of course.

3428
02:49:18,440 --> 02:49:23,479
I have had my motor home in the back of Sam's and/or

3429
02:49:23,479 --> 02:49:24,440
Walmart.

3430
02:49:24,440 --> 02:49:28,829
And what happens is it's an incredible amount of noise and

3431
02:49:28,829 --> 02:49:32,440
activity 2 or 3 o'clock in the morning.

3432
02:49:32,440 --> 02:49:34,440
So I ask you to consider these functions.

3433
02:49:34,440 --> 02:49:36,440
This is what happens.

3434
02:49:36,440 --> 02:49:38,559
Even though they may say there's not going to be 18 wheel

3435
02:49:38,559 --> 02:49:39,440
ers pulling in there,

3436
02:49:39,440 --> 02:49:43,440
you're going to have RVs that are going to do that.

3437
02:49:43,440 --> 02:49:45,440
And it's hard to keep them out.

3438
02:49:45,440 --> 02:49:47,440
I thank you for your time, Curtis.

3439
02:49:47,440 --> 02:49:52,440
Thank you.

3440
02:49:52,440 --> 02:49:56,440
Our next card is Lisa Rosenberg.

3441
02:49:56,440 --> 02:50:00,440
And she is in opposition.

3442
02:50:00,440 --> 02:50:02,440
Hi.

3443
02:50:02,440 --> 02:50:04,440
I too appreciate all that you do for the city.

3444
02:50:04,440 --> 02:50:08,600
I've lived in this city since 1988 on and off and I love

3445
02:50:08,600 --> 02:50:09,440
the city.

3446
02:50:09,440 --> 02:50:13,440
And I have been a resident on Valencia since 2002.

3447
02:50:13,440 --> 02:50:19,440
I was one of the first few people to move into the area.

3448
02:50:19,440 --> 02:50:23,520
Lenore that built these homes did an amazing job of

3449
02:50:23,520 --> 02:50:26,440
building these homes on a marsh.

3450
02:50:26,440 --> 02:50:30,780
Since I have been living in my home, my backyard has sunk

3451
02:50:30,780 --> 02:50:32,440
over a foot.

3452
02:50:32,440 --> 02:50:37,709
I have now an embankment that comes from this property that

3453
02:50:37,709 --> 02:50:39,440
's being proposed.

3454
02:50:39,440 --> 02:50:44,440
And everything that's on that side runs into my yard.

3455
02:50:44,440 --> 02:50:48,639
Now, I wish I could use your map to show what I'm talking

3456
02:50:48,639 --> 02:50:49,440
about.

3457
02:50:49,440 --> 02:50:52,440
I'll call the staff to pull up the map.

3458
02:50:52,440 --> 02:50:54,440
Absolutely.

3459
02:50:54,440 --> 02:50:58,440
The one that has the yellow, that one.

3460
02:50:58,440 --> 02:51:06,239
My house, if I'm not mistaken, is going to be this one

3461
02:51:06,239 --> 02:51:09,440
right here, here.

3462
02:51:09,440 --> 02:51:14,969
The house next to me has to put a sump pump here to pump

3463
02:51:14,969 --> 02:51:18,440
water out of their backyard every time it rains.

3464
02:51:18,440 --> 02:51:21,440
Because this area has sunk so much.

3465
02:51:21,440 --> 02:51:23,440
Ninety-three pumps.

3466
02:51:23,440 --> 02:51:25,440
I have a doctorate in biology.

3467
02:51:25,440 --> 02:51:27,440
I have a doctorate actually in neurobiology.

3468
02:51:27,440 --> 02:51:29,440
I work for the Department of Defense.

3469
02:51:29,440 --> 02:51:32,709
One of the things that I did for a number of years when I

3470
02:51:32,709 --> 02:51:36,270
was affiliated with Georgetown Medical School was test soil

3471
02:51:36,270 --> 02:51:42,440
, air, and water contamination for neurological deficits.

3472
02:51:42,440 --> 02:51:45,010
Caused by contaminants, I worked for the Department of

3473
02:51:45,010 --> 02:51:51,440
Defense looking at things like petroleum, organophosphates

3474
02:51:51,440 --> 02:51:52,440
that accumulate in water,

3475
02:51:52,440 --> 02:51:55,579
what it would mean for our servicemen if they were to drink

3476
02:51:55,579 --> 02:51:56,440
this water.

3477
02:51:56,440 --> 02:52:01,180
I will tell you, ninety-three pumps in this area, giving

3478
02:52:01,180 --> 02:52:04,440
off vapor, that's going to be a cesspool in no time.

3479
02:52:04,440 --> 02:52:08,750
And what's going to happen to me and to my neighbor is as

3480
02:52:08,750 --> 02:52:13,829
that water table carries that aquifer into my backyard, I'm

3481
02:52:13,829 --> 02:52:16,440
going to be polluted.

3482
02:52:16,440 --> 02:52:19,440
And my grandchild plays in that backyard.

3483
02:52:19,440 --> 02:52:21,440
I don't want that.

3484
02:52:21,440 --> 02:52:24,379
So, you know, it's nice that Buc-E's is going to offer us

3485
02:52:24,379 --> 02:52:25,440
clean toilets.

3486
02:52:25,440 --> 02:52:27,440
I work as a hospice nurse now.

3487
02:52:27,440 --> 02:52:30,440
I can tell you where every clean toilet is.

3488
02:52:30,440 --> 02:52:31,440
I have to stop at them.

3489
02:52:31,440 --> 02:52:33,440
I don't stop at Buc-E's.

3490
02:52:33,440 --> 02:52:35,440
I don't need Buc-E's.

3491
02:52:35,440 --> 02:52:37,440
Go out to 114 and look at that.

3492
02:52:37,440 --> 02:52:41,440
And then imagine it in our city.

3493
02:52:41,440 --> 02:52:42,440
I'm sorry.

3494
02:52:42,440 --> 02:52:46,139
I mean, I like Buc-E's nuts, but not enough that I'm

3495
02:52:46,139 --> 02:52:50,440
willing to say, hey, we're safe living behind this.

3496
02:52:50,440 --> 02:52:52,440
We're not.

3497
02:52:52,440 --> 02:52:55,100
And I think you need to do a lot more testing to find out

3498
02:52:55,100 --> 02:52:57,930
exactly what's going to happen to that pond and what

3499
02:52:57,930 --> 02:53:04,440
happens to all those residents in about an eight-year time.

3500
02:53:04,440 --> 02:53:08,440
Thank you for your comments.

3501
02:53:08,440 --> 02:53:12,440
Our next speaker is Jerry Drake.

3502
02:53:12,440 --> 02:53:19,420
He is in opposition, followed by, to be followed by Deborah

3503
02:53:19,420 --> 02:53:21,440
, our mentor.

3504
02:53:21,440 --> 02:53:22,440
>> Good evening.

3505
02:53:22,440 --> 02:53:24,850
My name is Jerry Drake, and I'm sure most of you recognize

3506
02:53:24,850 --> 02:53:28,010
that I'm an employee with the city, but I'm speaking to you

3507
02:53:28,010 --> 02:53:28,440
tonight.

3508
02:53:28,440 --> 02:53:30,440
I'm here only as a neighbor.

3509
02:53:30,440 --> 02:53:34,440
If we could get the concept map back up, I'd appreciate it.

3510
02:53:34,440 --> 02:53:38,440
I'd like to use it to refer to.

3511
02:53:38,440 --> 02:53:43,610
One of the things that I heard here is that one of the just

3512
02:53:43,610 --> 02:53:49,069
ifications for this ADP was to provide sort of an improved

3513
02:53:49,069 --> 02:53:53,440
location to protect these neighborhoods.

3514
02:53:53,440 --> 02:53:57,750
And I live in South Ridge Estates, this neighborhood over

3515
02:53:57,750 --> 02:53:58,440
here.

3516
02:53:58,440 --> 02:54:04,879
And the mention was made of the 50-foot landscape buffer

3517
02:54:04,879 --> 02:54:07,440
that is part of the overlay zoning.

3518
02:54:07,440 --> 02:54:12,459
And I believe there's also a requirement that wrought iron

3519
02:54:12,459 --> 02:54:17,440
fences be placed along this side of South Ridge Estates.

3520
02:54:17,440 --> 02:54:21,479
What that effectively means is that for all of these houses

3521
02:54:21,479 --> 02:54:22,440
along here,

3522
02:54:22,440 --> 02:54:25,520
they have an unrestricted view of the buckies and its

3523
02:54:25,520 --> 02:54:27,440
parking lot and its gas pumps.

3524
02:54:27,440 --> 02:54:31,440
And there's absolutely no sound mitigation whatsoever.

3525
02:54:31,440 --> 02:54:37,610
And one of the reasons for that is that when this zoning

3526
02:54:37,610 --> 02:54:42,440
was approved, what was put forward was multifamily housing.

3527
02:54:42,440 --> 02:54:46,100
So when the buckies was proposed, there was really no

3528
02:54:46,100 --> 02:54:50,059
opportunity for the neighborhood to speak regarding this

3529
02:54:50,059 --> 02:54:52,440
incredible change of use

3530
02:54:52,440 --> 02:54:55,500
between one of the less restrictive zoning districts and

3531
02:54:55,500 --> 02:54:58,440
one of the most restrictive zoning districts here.

3532
02:54:58,440 --> 02:55:03,670
And what I'm hearing tonight is that we're talking about an

3533
02:55:03,670 --> 02:55:08,440
impact of 24 trees lost, 8 trees added.

3534
02:55:08,440 --> 02:55:11,440
That sounds like you're down 16 trees to me.

3535
02:55:11,440 --> 02:55:15,370
Maybe I'm not understanding it correctly, but I'd like to

3536
02:55:15,370 --> 02:55:17,440
propose a simple alternative.

3537
02:55:17,440 --> 02:55:21,819
And that would be to simply take this 50-foot landscape

3538
02:55:21,819 --> 02:55:26,309
buffer, which is completely ineffective here because it's

3539
02:55:26,309 --> 02:55:28,440
all water at this point.

3540
02:55:28,440 --> 02:55:31,440
There's no place to plant anything.

3541
02:55:31,440 --> 02:55:37,639
And to simply relocate it around this east perimeter of the

3542
02:55:37,639 --> 02:55:38,440
pod.

3543
02:55:38,440 --> 02:55:42,440
That would provide visual screening for the neighborhood.

3544
02:55:42,440 --> 02:55:46,440
It would provide sound deadening for the neighborhood.

3545
02:55:46,440 --> 02:55:51,440
It would enhance the environmental area here.

3546
02:55:51,440 --> 02:55:55,440
And it would provide a number of benefits.

3547
02:55:55,440 --> 02:55:58,870
Yes, it would perhaps take some of these trees that we were

3548
02:55:58,870 --> 02:56:01,440
talking about out of this riparian area.

3549
02:56:01,440 --> 02:56:05,299
But if you got 16 left over, it seems like they could be

3550
02:56:05,299 --> 02:56:09,780
planted in here to provide some kind of screening for these

3551
02:56:09,780 --> 02:56:11,440
homes along here.

3552
02:56:11,440 --> 02:56:15,520
And aside from that, I really have no comment on the storm

3553
02:56:15,520 --> 02:56:20,129
scepters or the technology that's being proposed by Buc-E's

3554
02:56:20,129 --> 02:56:20,440
.

3555
02:56:20,440 --> 02:56:27,129
I really have no comment about the nature of the Buc-E's

3556
02:56:27,129 --> 02:56:30,440
establishment itself.

3557
02:56:30,440 --> 02:56:36,430
I'm just trying to propose a way to improve this proposal

3558
02:56:36,430 --> 02:56:38,440
by changing the tree plan.

3559
02:56:38,440 --> 02:56:43,899
And maybe taking some of the buffer that's called out along

3560
02:56:43,899 --> 02:56:46,440
here where it's completely ineffective.

3561
02:56:46,440 --> 02:56:49,040
And relocating it over here using some of those trees and

3562
02:56:49,040 --> 02:56:50,440
perhaps some other trees.

3563
02:56:50,440 --> 02:56:54,440
It would be a very cheap fix for Buc-E's.

3564
02:56:54,440 --> 02:56:57,440
Before you go, I need to get your address for the record.

3565
02:56:57,440 --> 02:56:59,440
Yes, sir. 2504 Shiloh Road.

3566
02:56:59,440 --> 02:57:02,440
Thank you. I see no questions. Thank you for your comments.

3567
02:57:02,440 --> 02:57:06,440
Thank you.

3568
02:57:06,440 --> 02:57:10,440
Our next speaker again will be Deborah Armentor.

3569
02:57:10,440 --> 02:57:16,260
She is registered in opposition to be followed by Leanne

3570
02:57:16,260 --> 02:57:17,440
Squire.

3571
02:57:17,440 --> 02:57:21,440
Hi. Deborah Armentor, 2003 Mistywood Lane.

3572
02:57:21,440 --> 02:57:27,440
And I'm speaking, as you said, in opposition to this item.

3573
02:57:27,440 --> 02:57:30,440
I too want to thank you.

3574
02:57:30,440 --> 02:57:33,069
I want to thank all of you for the work that you do on

3575
02:57:33,069 --> 02:57:34,440
planning and zoning.

3576
02:57:34,440 --> 02:57:36,440
I really appreciate it.

3577
02:57:36,440 --> 02:57:39,780
And I know that it's your job to deal with and deliberate

3578
02:57:39,780 --> 02:57:41,440
on whatever you're dealt.

3579
02:57:41,440 --> 02:57:43,440
And you don't get to decide what you're dealt.

3580
02:57:43,440 --> 02:57:45,440
So anyway, thank you. Thank you for doing what you do.

3581
02:57:45,440 --> 02:57:47,440
I appreciate it.

3582
02:57:47,440 --> 02:57:52,459
My problem with this Buc-E business from the very beginning

3583
02:57:52,459 --> 02:57:58,250
has been primarily a problem with process and due diligence

3584
02:57:58,250 --> 02:57:58,440
.

3585
02:57:58,440 --> 02:58:04,059
I don't like the fact that neighborhoods were not contacted

3586
02:58:04,059 --> 02:58:04,440
.

3587
02:58:04,440 --> 02:58:08,760
In fact, Buc-E's was referred to by a code name, Project

3588
02:58:08,760 --> 02:58:13,440
Cartoon, so that us regular folks,

3589
02:58:13,440 --> 02:58:16,290
including the people who live in the adjacent neighborhoods

3590
02:58:16,290 --> 02:58:17,440
, wouldn't know about it.

3591
02:58:17,440 --> 02:58:20,440
To me, that's bad process.

3592
02:58:20,440 --> 02:58:23,440
I realize you all weren't responsible for this,

3593
02:58:23,440 --> 02:58:29,100
but it's part and parcel of this issue that we're dealing

3594
02:58:29,100 --> 02:58:30,440
with now.

3595
02:58:30,440 --> 02:58:36,440
In addition, there have been all these turns of the screw

3596
02:58:36,440 --> 02:58:40,440
or wrenches thrown in or whatever metaphor you want to use

3597
02:58:40,440 --> 02:58:47,559
by which this Buc-E's deal keeps changing and shifting as

3598
02:58:47,559 --> 02:58:49,440
we go along.

3599
02:58:49,440 --> 02:58:54,549
We found out when we first heard about it, we learned that

3600
02:58:54,549 --> 02:59:00,440
these roads had already been decided on, this new road plan

3601
02:59:00,440 --> 02:59:00,440
.

3602
02:59:00,440 --> 02:59:04,290
And we also learned that even though there would be

3603
02:59:04,290 --> 02:59:07,469
improvements to the traffic flow in this highly congested

3604
02:59:07,469 --> 02:59:09,440
area,

3605
02:59:09,440 --> 02:59:14,809
access to Denton Regional Hospital by fire and emergency

3606
02:59:14,809 --> 02:59:17,440
services was still blocked.

3607
02:59:17,440 --> 02:59:20,440
And that remains a problem.

3608
02:59:20,440 --> 02:59:24,489
I was interested to hear and listening to a staff member

3609
02:59:24,489 --> 02:59:27,440
showing precisely this map up here.

3610
02:59:27,440 --> 02:59:31,670
She mentioned something to the extent of, well, this is the

3611
02:59:31,670 --> 02:59:35,459
map we had from the fall, I think she said, from some time

3612
02:59:35,459 --> 02:59:36,440
last year.

3613
02:59:36,440 --> 02:59:42,000
But things may have changed since then or things may change

3614
02:59:42,000 --> 02:59:43,440
since then.

3615
02:59:43,440 --> 02:59:49,059
So that seemed highly problematic to me, but also typical

3616
02:59:49,059 --> 02:59:51,440
of what we've seen so far.

3617
02:59:51,440 --> 02:59:53,649
And this issue that we're dealing with today, this

3618
02:59:53,649 --> 02:59:57,440
environmental issue, is yet another one of these cases

3619
02:59:57,440 --> 03:00:02,030
where something that we didn't expect regarding this Buc-E

3620
03:00:02,030 --> 03:00:05,440
's deal suddenly comes up out of nowhere.

3621
03:00:05,440 --> 03:00:16,690
So I object to this as just more of the same, yet another

3622
03:00:16,690 --> 03:00:20,440
red flag that we're doing the wrong things by Buc-E's.

3623
03:00:20,440 --> 03:00:28,440
And I would advise you all to not be afraid to vote no

3624
03:00:28,440 --> 03:00:32,030
until you really feel with confidence that due diligence

3625
03:00:32,030 --> 03:00:33,440
has been done.

3626
03:00:33,440 --> 03:00:36,600
And I also don't think that the duty of this due diligence

3627
03:00:36,600 --> 03:00:39,569
should be entirely up to you, planning and zoning

3628
03:00:39,569 --> 03:00:40,440
commission.

3629
03:00:40,440 --> 03:00:43,440
I think that the people who are proposing this project,

3630
03:00:43,440 --> 03:00:47,020
including Buc-E's, the Buc-E's people, should be

3631
03:00:47,020 --> 03:00:48,440
responsible for it.

3632
03:00:48,440 --> 03:00:52,379
And by the way, as others have said, I too, I have no issue

3633
03:00:52,379 --> 03:00:54,440
with Buc-E's, the brand.

3634
03:00:54,440 --> 03:00:56,950
I've stopped in Buc-E's restroom with my family on big road

3635
03:00:56,950 --> 03:00:57,440
trips.

3636
03:00:57,440 --> 03:01:00,079
We're always happy to be there and eat there and use their

3637
03:01:00,079 --> 03:01:01,440
bathrooms, et cetera.

3638
03:01:01,440 --> 03:01:04,450
I just think it's badly placed and there's been poor

3639
03:01:04,450 --> 03:01:06,440
process regarding this plan.

3640
03:01:06,440 --> 03:01:08,440
Thank you.

3641
03:01:08,440 --> 03:01:12,440
Thank you for your comments.

3642
03:01:12,440 --> 03:01:16,440
Our next speaker will be Leanne Squire.

3643
03:01:16,440 --> 03:01:18,440
She is in opposition.

3644
03:01:18,440 --> 03:01:21,440
And at this time I have one further card behind.

3645
03:01:21,440 --> 03:01:25,579
Looks like I believe it is Brett Chance would follow Ms.

3646
03:01:25,579 --> 03:01:26,440
Squire.

3647
03:01:26,440 --> 03:01:28,440
Hello.

3648
03:01:28,440 --> 03:01:31,440
I am a native of Denton.

3649
03:01:31,440 --> 03:01:35,440
And so I've lived here over 50 years.

3650
03:01:35,440 --> 03:01:39,370
And one thing I'm really proud about regarding this city is

3651
03:01:39,370 --> 03:01:42,440
its stance on environmental protection.

3652
03:01:42,440 --> 03:01:44,219
Before you get started, will you state your name and

3653
03:01:44,219 --> 03:01:45,440
address and record, please?

3654
03:01:45,440 --> 03:01:47,440
Yes. Leanne Squire.

3655
03:01:47,440 --> 03:01:48,440
Your time will start now.

3656
03:01:48,440 --> 03:01:49,440
Okay.

3657
03:01:49,440 --> 03:01:51,440
2604 Valencia Lane.

3658
03:01:51,440 --> 03:01:54,440
Backing up to the proposal here.

3659
03:01:54,440 --> 03:01:58,200
So Denton has been really known to be an environmentally

3660
03:01:58,200 --> 03:01:59,440
friendly city.

3661
03:01:59,440 --> 03:02:02,950
And even more than that, I think one that sort of looks

3662
03:02:02,950 --> 03:02:08,440
ahead and watches out to protect, you know, some native

3663
03:02:08,440 --> 03:02:10,440
areas, some native species,

3664
03:02:10,440 --> 03:02:14,280
and really just to look at the impact of development on the

3665
03:02:14,280 --> 03:02:15,440
environment.

3666
03:02:15,440 --> 03:02:18,829
And I know in some senses Denton has been known to be anti-

3667
03:02:18,829 --> 03:02:20,440
business a little bit.

3668
03:02:20,440 --> 03:02:24,440
There's been some, you know, rhetoric about that.

3669
03:02:24,440 --> 03:02:27,459
But I'm proud to say that for the most part I feel like

3670
03:02:27,459 --> 03:02:31,440
Denton has done the right thing in preserving, you know,

3671
03:02:31,440 --> 03:02:37,440
the areas that like some of these under discussion today.

3672
03:02:37,440 --> 03:02:45,500
So one thing I am concerned about after seeing the canopy

3673
03:02:45,500 --> 03:02:46,440
issue,

3674
03:02:46,440 --> 03:02:50,829
and I don't know if you can bring that back up, but seeing

3675
03:02:50,829 --> 03:02:56,440
the replacement of the calipers and being,

3676
03:02:56,440 --> 03:03:00,750
and really being told in 40 years we'll have our canopy

3677
03:03:00,750 --> 03:03:01,440
back.

3678
03:03:01,440 --> 03:03:05,750
And I'll be dead, I'm pretty sure, before we get our canopy

3679
03:03:05,750 --> 03:03:06,440
back.

3680
03:03:06,440 --> 03:03:12,440
So there's a lot of things that happen under a canopy.

3681
03:03:12,440 --> 03:03:18,129
Things grow, things are flourished, and when you take that

3682
03:03:18,129 --> 03:03:22,440
out, you really take away a protective environment.

3683
03:03:22,440 --> 03:03:27,739
So I'd like to, you know, I'd like to hear more about what

3684
03:03:27,739 --> 03:03:31,440
can be done to protect and to fully replace

3685
03:03:31,440 --> 03:03:37,319
and go above and beyond, as you have said, mitigating the

3686
03:03:37,319 --> 03:03:38,440
damage.

3687
03:03:38,440 --> 03:03:44,420
The next thing, my question is, have wildlife assessments

3688
03:03:44,420 --> 03:03:48,879
been made based on, like, any kind of wildlife that is on

3689
03:03:48,879 --> 03:03:50,440
the property?

3690
03:03:50,440 --> 03:03:55,760
Has that been done, not just the green, but the living, you

3691
03:03:55,760 --> 03:03:59,440
know, creatures that might be there?

3692
03:03:59,440 --> 03:04:01,930
I don't know if we can have staff address this particular

3693
03:04:01,930 --> 03:04:02,440
issue.

3694
03:04:02,440 --> 03:04:07,670
We'd address this in our work session, but would that be

3695
03:04:07,670 --> 03:04:10,440
appropriate at this time?

3696
03:04:10,440 --> 03:04:13,389
We will get that answer after our public comments before we

3697
03:04:13,389 --> 03:04:14,440
take any action.

3698
03:04:14,440 --> 03:04:15,440
Okay, awesome, awesome.

3699
03:04:15,440 --> 03:04:16,440
Thank you for the question.

3700
03:04:16,440 --> 03:04:18,440
I mean, there's just no telling.

3701
03:04:18,440 --> 03:04:21,799
And I was kind of surprised to see that the last study was

3702
03:04:21,799 --> 03:04:23,440
done in 2008.

3703
03:04:23,440 --> 03:04:27,420
So it's been eight years since that area has really been

3704
03:04:27,420 --> 03:04:28,440
looked at.

3705
03:04:28,440 --> 03:04:32,440
That gives me a little bit of cause for concern.

3706
03:04:32,440 --> 03:04:37,770
The next thing is I agree with what our neurobiologists

3707
03:04:37,770 --> 03:04:42,440
said about the petrochemicals running off.

3708
03:04:42,440 --> 03:04:46,459
And I'm not sure, you know, I don't have that problem in my

3709
03:04:46,459 --> 03:04:47,440
backyard.

3710
03:04:47,440 --> 03:04:50,440
I don't have to get a sump pump up after every rain.

3711
03:04:50,440 --> 03:04:51,440
Thank goodness.

3712
03:04:51,440 --> 03:04:55,440
We do have a drainage ditch behind our house.

3713
03:04:55,440 --> 03:04:59,899
I don't know how that will be affected because the maps don

3714
03:04:59,899 --> 03:05:02,440
't really address that area.

3715
03:05:02,440 --> 03:05:08,389
But there is, you know, just the reality is when you have

3716
03:05:08,389 --> 03:05:10,440
that much concrete

3717
03:05:10,440 --> 03:05:14,120
and you have petrochemicals on the concrete, when the rain

3718
03:05:14,120 --> 03:05:16,440
comes, they're going to run off somewhere.

3719
03:05:16,440 --> 03:05:18,440
And some of those will be fumes.

3720
03:05:18,440 --> 03:05:22,780
Some will be, you know, they're going to go into the ground

3721
03:05:22,780 --> 03:05:24,440
and into the water.

3722
03:05:24,440 --> 03:05:29,440
So I am concerned about that.

3723
03:05:29,440 --> 03:05:35,920
The other issue is have all, I'm sure, surely, I'm not an

3724
03:05:35,920 --> 03:05:36,440
engineer,

3725
03:05:36,440 --> 03:05:41,700
but all the calculations as far as how that much concrete,

3726
03:05:41,700 --> 03:05:46,879
600 plus spaces will affect the runoff, if you could

3727
03:05:46,879 --> 03:05:47,440
address that.

3728
03:05:47,440 --> 03:05:48,440
Thank you.

3729
03:05:48,440 --> 03:05:52,440
Thank you for your comments.

3730
03:05:52,440 --> 03:05:56,440
Our next speaker will be, I believe it is Brett Chance.

3731
03:05:56,440 --> 03:05:59,819
It's not marked as in support or opposition, if you'll give

3732
03:05:59,819 --> 03:06:02,549
your name and address when you come up, to be followed by

3733
03:06:02,549 --> 03:06:03,440
Lee Evans.

3734
03:06:03,440 --> 03:06:06,270
Again, this is a public hearing and anybody that would like

3735
03:06:06,270 --> 03:06:09,600
to speak on this item, please fill out a blue card and we

3736
03:06:09,600 --> 03:06:10,440
would like to hear from you.

3737
03:06:10,440 --> 03:06:11,440
Thank you, sir.

3738
03:06:11,440 --> 03:06:12,440
Yeah, Brett Chance.

3739
03:06:12,440 --> 03:06:15,440
I live at 2409 Natchez Trace.

3740
03:06:15,440 --> 03:06:19,299
You know, I guess really my first question is, is okay, you

3741
03:06:19,299 --> 03:06:22,579
're talking about taking away the tree canopy, but then

3742
03:06:22,579 --> 03:06:25,440
replacing it and hoping it comes back in 40 to 50 years.

3743
03:06:25,440 --> 03:06:29,969
My question is, what's the point of even doing that when we

3744
03:06:29,969 --> 03:06:32,440
need the privacy right now?

3745
03:06:32,440 --> 03:06:35,440
That's not going to do us any good until at that point.

3746
03:06:35,440 --> 03:06:39,319
The other part of that is I realize it's still early in the

3747
03:06:39,319 --> 03:06:43,719
process and all that, but still having that 50 foot buffer

3748
03:06:43,719 --> 03:06:47,870
in between Southridge and even the other subdivision, that

3749
03:06:47,870 --> 03:06:50,440
's not enough of a buffer.

3750
03:06:50,440 --> 03:06:54,879
So, you know, one of the things I like to see is going

3751
03:06:54,879 --> 03:06:59,889
ahead and having some sort of a retaining wall or something

3752
03:06:59,889 --> 03:07:04,360
like that eight foot concrete tilt wall that is on the

3753
03:07:04,360 --> 03:07:08,440
other side of the pond in between the pond and Buc-E's.

3754
03:07:08,440 --> 03:07:12,209
So that way that's giving us some sort of a break from all

3755
03:07:12,209 --> 03:07:16,079
of the headlights coming in shining in our backyards and

3756
03:07:16,079 --> 03:07:20,440
also as a noise buffer rather than just depending on trees.

3757
03:07:20,440 --> 03:07:24,149
Even though, yes, you know, having environmental buffer,

3758
03:07:24,149 --> 03:07:27,579
that's great, but having some sort of added protection at

3759
03:07:27,579 --> 03:07:28,440
that point.

3760
03:07:28,440 --> 03:07:32,200
And then also, you know, talking about the pond and all

3761
03:07:32,200 --> 03:07:36,059
that with all the pollutants coming in there, you know,

3762
03:07:36,059 --> 03:07:40,120
large airports have to have special environmental things in

3763
03:07:40,120 --> 03:07:43,690
place with all the jet fuel and diesel fuel and all that

3764
03:07:43,690 --> 03:07:46,680
that's coming off the tarmac to be able to help keep the

3765
03:07:46,680 --> 03:07:47,440
pollutants coming in.

3766
03:07:47,440 --> 03:07:50,129
So my question is why don't we have the same thing put in

3767
03:07:50,129 --> 03:07:53,000
place for the pond to protect the environment and also the

3768
03:07:53,000 --> 03:07:56,010
citizens, they're going to have to deal with that runoff so

3769
03:07:56,010 --> 03:07:59,090
we don't have environmental toxins coming into our backyard

3770
03:07:59,090 --> 03:07:59,440
.

3771
03:07:59,440 --> 03:08:01,440
And I'm very much opposed to this. Thank you.

3772
03:08:01,440 --> 03:08:06,440
Thank you. Thank you for your comments.

3773
03:08:06,440 --> 03:08:10,440
Our next speaker will be Lee Evans in opposition.

3774
03:08:10,440 --> 03:08:15,770
You'll state your name and address to be followed by

3775
03:08:15,770 --> 03:08:17,440
Douglas Wooten.

3776
03:08:17,440 --> 03:08:20,440
Hi, Lee Evans, 2400 Natchez trees.

3777
03:08:20,440 --> 03:08:29,440
Can we have the tree canopy map up, please?

3778
03:08:29,440 --> 03:08:32,440
My house is in this lot right here.

3779
03:08:32,440 --> 03:08:35,440
And I'm very much against this thing.

3780
03:08:35,440 --> 03:08:40,440
It looks like all of this is going to be taken out.

3781
03:08:40,440 --> 03:08:44,440
Is that correct?

3782
03:08:44,440 --> 03:08:49,440
The area impacted is this right here.

3783
03:08:49,440 --> 03:08:52,440
So this is all not impacted.

3784
03:08:52,440 --> 03:08:54,440
Okay. What about this part here?

3785
03:08:54,440 --> 03:08:56,440
There's all manner of trees and things in here, too.

3786
03:08:56,440 --> 03:08:59,440
That's outside of the environmentally sensitive area.

3787
03:08:59,440 --> 03:09:01,440
So those trees don't get to count.

3788
03:09:01,440 --> 03:09:03,440
How many of those are going to be taken out?

3789
03:09:03,440 --> 03:09:05,440
I'm not sure.

3790
03:09:05,440 --> 03:09:08,770
Okay. Also, we've talked about a 50-foot landscape buffer

3791
03:09:08,770 --> 03:09:09,440
that would run down through here.

3792
03:09:09,440 --> 03:09:11,440
Am I correct?

3793
03:09:11,440 --> 03:09:14,440
That 50-foot, you can't put a landscape in there.

3794
03:09:14,440 --> 03:09:17,440
That's a utility easement.

3795
03:09:17,440 --> 03:09:20,440
They've already taken out all of the small trees there.

3796
03:09:20,440 --> 03:09:24,129
From what I understand from the electric guys that came and

3797
03:09:24,129 --> 03:09:25,440
chopped our trees out,

3798
03:09:25,440 --> 03:09:28,139
that has to be clear for them to bring a truck down there

3799
03:09:28,139 --> 03:09:29,440
any time they choose.

3800
03:09:29,440 --> 03:09:32,879
So if you put a landscape in there, they're simply going to

3801
03:09:32,879 --> 03:09:33,440
dig it up,

3802
03:09:33,440 --> 03:09:37,440
getting to fix power lines and things like that.

3803
03:09:37,440 --> 03:09:40,440
So that's not possible.

3804
03:09:40,440 --> 03:09:45,139
So I ask that this please do not let them do this in that

3805
03:09:45,139 --> 03:09:46,440
entrance.

3806
03:09:46,440 --> 03:09:50,149
It'll be an absolute nightmare for us that live against

3807
03:09:50,149 --> 03:09:51,440
that like that.

3808
03:09:51,440 --> 03:09:55,500
You have to plant eight trees somewhere else, two-inch

3809
03:09:55,500 --> 03:09:56,440
caliber,

3810
03:09:56,440 --> 03:10:00,440
as opposed to these big, magnificent trees that are there,

3811
03:10:00,440 --> 03:10:03,219
plus all these others that they're going to take out anyway

3812
03:10:03,219 --> 03:10:03,440
.

3813
03:10:03,440 --> 03:10:07,440
Our view will be nothing but the back of a restaurant.

3814
03:10:07,440 --> 03:10:11,659
As far as being contacted about this, my house never

3815
03:10:11,659 --> 03:10:14,440
received notice from the city,

3816
03:10:14,440 --> 03:10:17,440
never received notice from Buc-E's, anything else.

3817
03:10:17,440 --> 03:10:20,870
This is the first meeting I've known about, or I would have

3818
03:10:20,870 --> 03:10:21,440
been here before.

3819
03:10:21,440 --> 03:10:25,440
This has been done to us, not with us.

3820
03:10:25,440 --> 03:10:27,440
They've let some people know.

3821
03:10:27,440 --> 03:10:30,909
And I'm telling you, the stuff that they're telling you

3822
03:10:30,909 --> 03:10:33,440
they will do, they cannot do.

3823
03:10:33,440 --> 03:10:35,440
Your city's already zoned against it.

3824
03:10:35,440 --> 03:10:37,440
Thank you.

3825
03:10:37,440 --> 03:10:41,440
Thank you for your comments.

3826
03:10:41,440 --> 03:10:42,440
Again, this is a public hearing.

3827
03:10:42,440 --> 03:10:44,440
At this time, I have one card left.

3828
03:10:44,440 --> 03:10:47,440
Douglas Wooten, who wants to speak in support.

3829
03:10:47,440 --> 03:10:50,979
So anyone else that would like to speak, please fill out a

3830
03:10:50,979 --> 03:10:52,440
card or prepare to come forward,

3831
03:10:52,440 --> 03:10:55,540
and then you can fill out a card after you give your

3832
03:10:55,540 --> 03:10:56,440
comments.

3833
03:10:56,440 --> 03:11:00,440
Douglas Wooten, 2701 Valencia Lane.

3834
03:11:00,440 --> 03:11:04,440
I back up right to this site.

3835
03:11:04,440 --> 03:11:08,100
My wife and I have been on all the council meetings that

3836
03:11:08,100 --> 03:11:09,440
have taken place.

3837
03:11:09,440 --> 03:11:15,319
We were at the original public hearing, albeit it was short

3838
03:11:15,319 --> 03:11:17,440
notice, I agree.

3839
03:11:17,440 --> 03:11:20,440
But we basically have put ourselves in the loop.

3840
03:11:20,440 --> 03:11:22,440
We've been to the council meetings.

3841
03:11:22,440 --> 03:11:26,149
We've heard what Buc-E's has proposed and what they've said

3842
03:11:26,149 --> 03:11:26,440
.

3843
03:11:26,440 --> 03:11:30,540
We've seen proposals in the past that put three stories of

3844
03:11:30,540 --> 03:11:34,440
apartment buildings within 25 feet of my back fence.

3845
03:11:34,440 --> 03:11:41,459
And if I'm not mistaken, the average is well over 300 feet

3846
03:11:41,459 --> 03:11:45,440
for any of the residents to where the building is.

3847
03:11:45,440 --> 03:11:49,530
They talk about a cement retaining wall that's been

3848
03:11:49,530 --> 03:11:52,129
discussed and that he's going to put a cement retaining

3849
03:11:52,129 --> 03:11:56,440
wall between our houses and his establishment.

3850
03:11:56,440 --> 03:12:00,930
I just see it not really affecting us in traffic because

3851
03:12:00,930 --> 03:12:04,219
most of it's going to be right on and back onto the freeway

3852
03:12:04,219 --> 03:12:05,440
, off and on.

3853
03:12:05,440 --> 03:12:09,750
And I live, I take Wind River and get on the freeway every

3854
03:12:09,750 --> 03:12:10,440
morning.

3855
03:12:10,440 --> 03:12:14,559
And this is going to be well north of that where it comes

3856
03:12:14,559 --> 03:12:15,440
back in.

3857
03:12:15,440 --> 03:12:19,440
And I just, I don't see it as a bad thing.

3858
03:12:19,440 --> 03:12:24,340
I see it as progress and our city taking a step in the

3859
03:12:24,340 --> 03:12:26,440
right direction.

3860
03:12:26,440 --> 03:12:29,440
I know that the lake is back there.

3861
03:12:29,440 --> 03:12:31,440
It's right behind my house.

3862
03:12:31,440 --> 03:12:32,440
No one's ever there.

3863
03:12:32,440 --> 03:12:34,440
Nothing ever goes on there.

3864
03:12:34,440 --> 03:12:42,420
So just to wonder what it's going to do to it, well, nobody

3865
03:12:42,420 --> 03:12:44,440
knows what's going on now.

3866
03:12:44,440 --> 03:12:46,440
I mean, it's just basically out of the loop.

3867
03:12:46,440 --> 03:12:47,440
Nothing's there.

3868
03:12:47,440 --> 03:12:48,440
No one goes there.

3869
03:12:48,440 --> 03:12:50,440
There's cattle that are out there.

3870
03:12:50,440 --> 03:12:51,440
I've seen bobcats.

3871
03:12:51,440 --> 03:12:57,440
I see squirrels all the time, skunks, possums.

3872
03:12:57,440 --> 03:13:01,600
But as far as the buffer zone that they're speaking about,

3873
03:13:01,600 --> 03:13:06,440
you know, like I said, it's well over 300 feet from myself.

3874
03:13:06,440 --> 03:13:09,440
And they've talked about low-level lighting.

3875
03:13:09,440 --> 03:13:14,239
There's been plenty of things that Buc-E's has talked about

3876
03:13:14,239 --> 03:13:17,440
in concession to be a good neighbor.

3877
03:13:17,440 --> 03:13:19,440
They're not going in there trying to bully us.

3878
03:13:19,440 --> 03:13:21,500
They're not going in there saying this is what it is and

3879
03:13:21,500 --> 03:13:23,440
live with it because this is what we're doing.

3880
03:13:23,440 --> 03:13:24,440
They've taken input.

3881
03:13:24,440 --> 03:13:27,440
They've asked, at least I've gotten input.

3882
03:13:27,440 --> 03:13:32,930
I've talked with Mr. Beaver himself, Mr. Arpin, and he just

3883
03:13:32,930 --> 03:13:35,760
seems concerned and he wants to do the right thing and he

3884
03:13:35,760 --> 03:13:37,440
wants to do it the right way.

3885
03:13:37,440 --> 03:13:41,690
And I just, for one resident in this area, just want to let

3886
03:13:41,690 --> 03:13:44,440
you know that I'm not the only one.

3887
03:13:44,440 --> 03:13:46,440
I may be the only one here tonight that's in favor of it,

3888
03:13:46,440 --> 03:13:50,639
but there's a handful of us over there that see this as a

3889
03:13:50,639 --> 03:13:53,440
good thing and see this as progress in the right direction.

3890
03:13:53,440 --> 03:13:57,850
And they've worked with TechStat to get improvements done

3891
03:13:57,850 --> 03:14:01,889
faster than the next eight years that it would have took to

3892
03:14:01,889 --> 03:14:03,440
do it without this.

3893
03:14:03,440 --> 03:14:08,010
So it's just, everything he's done has been first class and

3894
03:14:08,010 --> 03:14:11,440
has been done the right way in my opinion.

3895
03:14:11,440 --> 03:14:15,159
And these people that haven't been in the loop, I guess

3896
03:14:15,159 --> 03:14:18,440
haven't tried to put themselves in the loop.

3897
03:14:18,440 --> 03:14:21,329
Once I heard about it, I've been at, like I said, the

3898
03:14:21,329 --> 03:14:24,909
council meetings, I've been to the public hearings, and I

3899
03:14:24,909 --> 03:14:28,440
've just made myself a part of this.

3900
03:14:28,440 --> 03:14:30,440
And like I said, my house backs up right to it.

3901
03:14:30,440 --> 03:14:35,139
I'm going to be affected more than most people because my

3902
03:14:35,139 --> 03:14:38,440
backyard is going to be right there.

3903
03:14:38,440 --> 03:14:42,229
But like I said, I think the steps that he's taken and the

3904
03:14:42,229 --> 03:14:46,440
things he's done for us, in my opinion, are a good thing.

3905
03:14:46,440 --> 03:14:48,440
Thank you.

3906
03:14:48,440 --> 03:14:50,440
Thank you for your comments.

3907
03:14:50,440 --> 03:14:52,440
At this time, again, this is a public hearing.

3908
03:14:52,440 --> 03:14:56,329
Anyone else who would like to speak on this item, please

3909
03:14:56,329 --> 03:14:58,440
come forward at this time.

3910
03:14:58,440 --> 03:14:59,440
Please come forward, sir.

3911
03:14:59,440 --> 03:15:01,399
And after you give your comments, if you'll fill out a card

3912
03:15:01,399 --> 03:15:02,440
, we would appreciate it.

3913
03:15:02,440 --> 03:15:04,440
Please state your name and address for the record.

3914
03:15:04,440 --> 03:15:09,440
My name is Norris Lewis, 2504 Shenandoah Trail.

3915
03:15:09,440 --> 03:15:12,440
Boy, I live right in the center of the pond.

3916
03:15:12,440 --> 03:15:15,500
I mean, you step in my backyard and there it is, my wife

3917
03:15:15,500 --> 03:15:18,750
and the lady next door every morning at 9 o'clock feed the

3918
03:15:18,750 --> 03:15:19,440
ducks.

3919
03:15:19,440 --> 03:15:23,620
There's anywhere from 50 to 75 ducks just on the other side

3920
03:15:23,620 --> 03:15:25,440
of our barbed wire fence.

3921
03:15:25,440 --> 03:15:28,989
And in the meeting that the owner was there a few months

3922
03:15:28,989 --> 03:15:33,440
ago, and I don't remember his name, but he gave some things

3923
03:15:33,440 --> 03:15:35,440
that might be done with the pond.

3924
03:15:35,440 --> 03:15:39,100
And one of them was he might give it to the city and the

3925
03:15:39,100 --> 03:15:41,440
city could turn it into a park.

3926
03:15:41,440 --> 03:15:42,440
We don't want that.

3927
03:15:42,440 --> 03:15:45,440
That would put people out there.

3928
03:15:45,440 --> 03:15:47,440
And we just it's nice.

3929
03:15:47,440 --> 03:15:48,440
It's beautiful.

3930
03:15:48,440 --> 03:15:50,440
Come into my backyard and look at it.

3931
03:15:50,440 --> 03:15:53,920
It's beautiful place out there and the ducks would be run

3932
03:15:53,920 --> 03:15:54,440
off.

3933
03:15:54,440 --> 03:15:56,440
And it's just very nice.

3934
03:15:56,440 --> 03:15:58,440
And that's my thought.

3935
03:15:58,440 --> 03:15:59,440
Thank you for your comments, sir.

3936
03:15:59,440 --> 03:16:02,440
Please fill out a card for us.

3937
03:16:02,440 --> 03:16:04,440
Again, this is a public hearing.

3938
03:16:04,440 --> 03:16:07,139
Anyone who would like to speak on this item, please come

3939
03:16:07,139 --> 03:16:08,440
forward at this time.

3940
03:16:08,440 --> 03:16:14,440
I did mention I just wanted to say my name is my brain.

3941
03:16:14,440 --> 03:16:15,440
Please come forward to the mic.

3942
03:16:15,440 --> 03:16:21,440
We'll give you the opportunity to make one final comment.

3943
03:16:21,440 --> 03:16:25,110
My neighbor brought up that the lady that lives at 2604

3944
03:16:25,110 --> 03:16:28,469
brought up that she has a drainage system in her backyard

3945
03:16:28,469 --> 03:16:31,440
because we have sunk.

3946
03:16:31,440 --> 03:16:34,079
That whole area has sunk because originally it was supposed

3947
03:16:34,079 --> 03:16:36,479
to be at the highest point the water would drain through

3948
03:16:36,479 --> 03:16:38,440
everybody's yard to her drainage system.

3949
03:16:38,440 --> 03:16:41,870
But because of the pond and the aquifers, we've sunk to the

3950
03:16:41,870 --> 03:16:44,440
point that it no longer drains that way.

3951
03:16:44,440 --> 03:16:47,309
So my husband and I at our own expense had to put in a

3952
03:16:47,309 --> 03:16:50,790
drainage in our backyard that drains to the street, to the

3953
03:16:50,790 --> 03:16:51,440
sewers.

3954
03:16:51,440 --> 03:16:55,860
So whatever comes into our backyard, so ecologically, EPA-

3955
03:16:55,860 --> 03:16:59,579
wise, whatever comes into our backyard through that water is

3956
03:16:59,579 --> 03:17:00,440
going to end up in our sewer system.

3957
03:17:00,440 --> 03:17:03,440
So I just want you guys to be aware of that.

3958
03:17:03,440 --> 03:17:07,250
So as we're talking about contamination to water, it is

3959
03:17:07,250 --> 03:17:09,440
going to end up in the sewage.

3960
03:17:09,440 --> 03:17:12,440
Thank you for your additional comment.

3961
03:17:12,440 --> 03:17:16,100
So public hearing, anyone else who would like to speak on

3962
03:17:16,100 --> 03:17:19,569
this item or has a final comment before I close the public

3963
03:17:19,569 --> 03:17:20,440
hearing?

3964
03:17:20,440 --> 03:17:26,440
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing on this item.

3965
03:17:26,440 --> 03:17:30,610
And before I open it up for discussion on the board, I want

3966
03:17:30,610 --> 03:17:33,209
to make a couple of comments and observations of what we

3967
03:17:33,209 --> 03:17:35,440
have before us as a commission.

3968
03:17:35,440 --> 03:17:38,709
The particular use that we have on this property is allowed

3969
03:17:38,709 --> 03:17:39,440
by right.

3970
03:17:39,440 --> 03:17:42,440
That is not before this commission tonight.

3971
03:17:42,440 --> 03:17:44,440
This use can go in there.

3972
03:17:44,440 --> 03:17:46,440
Other uses can go in there.

3973
03:17:46,440 --> 03:17:49,309
It is zoned properly for this use, so that's not before

3974
03:17:49,309 --> 03:17:50,440
this commission.

3975
03:17:50,440 --> 03:17:53,530
The second item is that the only item that we're going to

3976
03:17:53,530 --> 03:17:56,879
be considering at this time is going to be this alternative

3977
03:17:56,879 --> 03:17:57,440
ESA.

3978
03:17:57,440 --> 03:18:01,100
After this commission votes on this, it will move forward

3979
03:18:01,100 --> 03:18:02,440
on to city council.

3980
03:18:02,440 --> 03:18:06,520
So for all of you all who have questions or concerns, I

3981
03:18:06,520 --> 03:18:10,110
urge all of you to move on to city council and bring those

3982
03:18:10,110 --> 03:18:10,440
things.

3983
03:18:10,440 --> 03:18:13,840
And the number of items that have been brought up from a

3984
03:18:13,840 --> 03:18:18,440
wildlife assessment, I will ask, I believe, either Deborah

3985
03:18:18,440 --> 03:18:19,440
or Julie to address that.

3986
03:18:19,440 --> 03:18:21,440
I believe there was a question about that.

3987
03:18:21,440 --> 03:18:24,930
And then some of these other comments from buffers on the

3988
03:18:24,930 --> 03:18:28,809
east side of the lake, the mason wall, and the viability of

3989
03:18:28,809 --> 03:18:31,440
the 50-foot landscape buffer.

3990
03:18:31,440 --> 03:18:34,629
Again, those are things that can be brought to the

3991
03:18:34,629 --> 03:18:38,069
applicant and discussed, and those things can be handled

3992
03:18:38,069 --> 03:18:40,440
all the way up until we have our final plat.

3993
03:18:40,440 --> 03:18:43,469
And that, again, will come before this commission, and then

3994
03:18:43,469 --> 03:18:45,440
it will go again before city council.

3995
03:18:45,440 --> 03:18:48,299
So there is still opportunity for all of you all who have

3996
03:18:48,299 --> 03:18:51,639
concerns or would like some additional items addressed to

3997
03:18:51,639 --> 03:18:54,670
have those things brought back before this commission and

3998
03:18:54,670 --> 03:18:55,440
also before city council.

3999
03:18:55,440 --> 03:18:59,690
And I urge all of you all to use your opportunities to do

4000
03:18:59,690 --> 03:19:00,440
that.

4001
03:19:00,440 --> 03:19:02,920
With that said, I will call on, I don't know, who would

4002
03:19:02,920 --> 03:19:05,500
like to come forward on the wildlife assessment to address

4003
03:19:05,500 --> 03:19:08,440
that question, and then we'll open it up for discussion.

4004
03:19:16,440 --> 03:19:19,020
As a part of the field assessment, when we found a creek

4005
03:19:19,020 --> 03:19:26,440
that is actually running, flowing,

4006
03:19:26,440 --> 03:19:31,899
the assessment will include a biological indicator, mainly

4007
03:19:31,899 --> 03:19:35,440
the organism that lives in the water.

4008
03:19:35,440 --> 03:19:41,290
Okay, the assessment that it was done in 2008 indicated

4009
03:19:41,290 --> 03:19:45,649
that at that time the stream was not flowing, therefore

4010
03:19:45,649 --> 03:19:47,979
there was not a biological assessment of the creatures that

4011
03:19:47,979 --> 03:19:49,440
were in the water.

4012
03:19:49,440 --> 03:19:52,469
When it comes down to wildlife, we're talking about mainly

4013
03:19:52,469 --> 03:19:54,440
mammals, amphibians, and so on.

4014
03:19:54,440 --> 03:19:58,450
That type of assessment, the assessment that the city

4015
03:19:58,450 --> 03:20:02,399
performed or required from third party to be done doesn't

4016
03:20:02,399 --> 03:20:03,440
include wildlife.

4017
03:20:03,440 --> 03:20:08,819
But we do it when the, we do an assessment of the creatures

4018
03:20:08,819 --> 03:20:13,440
in the water if the creek is actually flowing.

4019
03:20:13,440 --> 03:20:18,530
Okay, great. Thank you for the comment and clarification on

4020
03:20:18,530 --> 03:20:21,440
what we have studied up until this point.

4021
03:20:21,440 --> 03:20:24,450
I'm now going to open it up for discussion on our

4022
03:20:24,450 --> 03:20:28,440
commission, and I recognize Commissioner Beck first.

4023
03:20:28,440 --> 03:20:30,440
Quick question for David.

4024
03:20:30,440 --> 03:20:34,440
Sorry. Don't sit in the back row.

4025
03:20:34,440 --> 03:20:36,959
Deborah, did you wear your Fitbit like me today because you

4026
03:20:36,959 --> 03:20:38,440
're getting all your steps in.

4027
03:20:38,440 --> 03:20:42,440
You moved too quick. Sorry about that.

4028
03:20:42,440 --> 03:20:43,440
How can I help?

4029
03:20:43,440 --> 03:20:46,959
What is the possibility of doing some kind of assessment

4030
03:20:46,959 --> 03:20:48,440
for wildlife there?

4031
03:20:48,440 --> 03:20:50,440
I mean, a lot of people are concerned about it.

4032
03:20:50,440 --> 03:20:52,440
How difficult would that be to?

4033
03:20:52,440 --> 03:21:00,559
Well, that is not part of a typical field assessment. That

4034
03:21:00,559 --> 03:21:01,909
would be something that the applicant can take it upon

4035
03:21:01,909 --> 03:21:02,440
himself to do it.

4036
03:21:02,440 --> 03:21:07,469
They will have to hire certified biologists to do that and

4037
03:21:07,469 --> 03:21:08,440
to do it.

4038
03:21:08,440 --> 03:21:13,569
It is not a requirement of a ESA field assessment at this

4039
03:21:13,569 --> 03:21:17,829
point, but it is completely up to the applicant to provide

4040
03:21:17,829 --> 03:21:18,440
that.

4041
03:21:18,440 --> 03:21:22,610
We will certainly review it, and if we have any questions

4042
03:21:22,610 --> 03:21:27,129
about the procedures, methodologies used, or so on, we will

4043
03:21:27,129 --> 03:21:30,440
have that type of conversation.

4044
03:21:30,440 --> 03:21:32,440
But it is completely up to the applicant.

4045
03:21:32,440 --> 03:21:35,440
Okay. Thanks, Deborah.

4046
03:21:35,440 --> 03:21:36,440
Commissioner Bruebel.

4047
03:21:36,440 --> 03:21:39,440
Deborah, you might want to stay close by.

4048
03:21:39,440 --> 03:21:43,409
I'm not sure who to direct this question to, but both Mr.

4049
03:21:43,409 --> 03:21:47,459
Chance and Ms. Rosenberg had spoken about runoff from the

4050
03:21:47,459 --> 03:21:48,440
parking lot.

4051
03:21:48,440 --> 03:21:50,649
And I know, Deborah, we spoke a little bit about that in

4052
03:21:50,649 --> 03:21:53,680
the work session about, for example, like Razor Ranch has

4053
03:21:53,680 --> 03:21:57,799
those neat little cutouts to help clean their water as it

4054
03:21:57,799 --> 03:22:00,440
moves through the parking lot.

4055
03:22:00,440 --> 03:22:04,520
That was done because they had requested more parking, and

4056
03:22:04,520 --> 03:22:08,440
so that was a mitigating factor that they -- whatever.

4057
03:22:08,440 --> 03:22:12,719
So my question is, as we're looking at the water quality

4058
03:22:12,719 --> 03:22:17,440
and we're looking at the fact that there are 96 gas pumps

4059
03:22:17,440 --> 03:22:20,979
and a highway right next to a residential neighborhood, was

4060
03:22:20,979 --> 03:22:26,170
talk of some sort of runoff into the -- there was like a

4061
03:22:26,170 --> 03:22:30,440
dry retainment pond.

4062
03:22:30,440 --> 03:22:33,750
So as I understand it, the parking lot is not going to be

4063
03:22:33,750 --> 03:22:37,219
draining into the riparian habitat, which would then go

4064
03:22:37,219 --> 03:22:40,239
into the pond so that these storm scepters would be

4065
03:22:40,239 --> 03:22:43,440
filtering out the runoff from the parking lot.

4066
03:22:43,440 --> 03:22:44,440
The water is not flowing that way.

4067
03:22:44,440 --> 03:22:46,440
It's flowing directly south.

4068
03:22:46,440 --> 03:22:48,840
But we're still talking about water quality, and we're

4069
03:22:48,840 --> 03:22:51,129
talking about things that we can do if they're going to

4070
03:22:51,129 --> 03:22:53,440
disturb this environmentally sensitive area.

4071
03:22:53,440 --> 03:22:57,260
There are some mitigations that could be made to minimize

4072
03:22:57,260 --> 03:22:59,440
the destruction to this area.

4073
03:22:59,440 --> 03:23:02,459
Was there any talk at any point of creating some sort of

4074
03:23:02,459 --> 03:23:05,879
filtration system coming off of that parking lot, since we

4075
03:23:05,879 --> 03:23:08,440
're losing some riparian habitat to the west?

4076
03:23:08,440 --> 03:23:13,540
Maybe there's something that could be done to the south to

4077
03:23:13,540 --> 03:23:19,069
protect the neighborhood from the runoff of the development

4078
03:23:19,069 --> 03:23:19,440
.

4079
03:23:19,440 --> 03:23:23,309
Most of the time when we look for mitigation, we're looking

4080
03:23:23,309 --> 03:23:27,100
-- we analyze nexus, what have been disturbed, and where

4081
03:23:27,100 --> 03:23:29,440
the mitigation is going to be.

4082
03:23:29,440 --> 03:23:33,760
In this case, the applicant has proposed mitigation that

4083
03:23:33,760 --> 03:23:37,840
will come from the affected area, from the parking lots of

4084
03:23:37,840 --> 03:23:40,440
those out parcels into the stream buffer.

4085
03:23:40,440 --> 03:23:44,440
In that case, we have the nexus right there.

4086
03:23:44,440 --> 03:23:48,750
Request any water quality features for the impervious

4087
03:23:48,750 --> 03:23:52,440
surface coming off the gas station.

4088
03:23:52,440 --> 03:23:55,440
At this point, we don't have a requirement.

4089
03:23:55,440 --> 03:24:01,440
However, if by any chance they deviate from any standards,

4090
03:24:01,440 --> 03:24:06,440
for example, parking spaces for the gas station itself,

4091
03:24:06,440 --> 03:24:10,280
then that will be an opportunity for staff to start the

4092
03:24:10,280 --> 03:24:14,350
dialogue of what type of mitigation they will do in those

4093
03:24:14,350 --> 03:24:15,440
instances.

4094
03:24:15,440 --> 03:24:19,920
But at this point, I don't have a regulations that require

4095
03:24:19,920 --> 03:24:24,440
gas station to provide any type of water quality features.

4096
03:24:24,440 --> 03:24:29,819
That doesn't close the opportunity to have that discussion

4097
03:24:29,819 --> 03:24:34,829
in the future if they decide to require excess parking or

4098
03:24:34,829 --> 03:24:37,440
anything of that nature.

4099
03:24:37,440 --> 03:24:40,440
So here's my counterpoint to that. It's twofold.

4100
03:24:40,440 --> 03:24:44,420
One is that we're looking at the entire lot, the entire

4101
03:24:44,420 --> 03:24:45,440
property.

4102
03:24:45,440 --> 03:24:49,170
I imagine that other ESA mitigation alternative plans have

4103
03:24:49,170 --> 03:24:52,680
been done when you look at the entire property, not just

4104
03:24:52,680 --> 03:24:54,440
that one specific area.

4105
03:24:54,440 --> 03:24:58,309
So there possibly could be something done somewhere else on

4106
03:24:58,309 --> 03:24:59,440
the property.

4107
03:24:59,440 --> 03:25:01,690
My second point is that when they're replacing some of

4108
03:25:01,690 --> 03:25:03,959
these trees that they're cutting down, even you admitted in

4109
03:25:03,959 --> 03:25:06,729
the work session, they're not putting that in the wetland

4110
03:25:06,729 --> 03:25:07,440
habitat.

4111
03:25:07,440 --> 03:25:09,440
They're putting them in a dryland habitat.

4112
03:25:09,440 --> 03:25:13,309
So really, what's the difference if you move that, if you

4113
03:25:13,309 --> 03:25:17,440
add another mitigation factor 200 feet to the east?

4114
03:25:17,440 --> 03:25:19,930
I mean, you're still not replacing anything that we're

4115
03:25:19,930 --> 03:25:23,430
losing in the wetland habitat, but you're hopefully

4116
03:25:23,430 --> 03:25:28,440
improving the water quality from the entire property.

4117
03:25:28,440 --> 03:25:32,450
Would that be, and just to be able to answer your question,

4118
03:25:32,450 --> 03:25:36,079
would that be in addition to what is being proposed,

4119
03:25:36,079 --> 03:25:38,440
mitigation or in exchange of?

4120
03:25:38,440 --> 03:25:41,049
Well, I mean, I think Commissioner Taylor made a great

4121
03:25:41,049 --> 03:25:44,790
point that we've seen other alternative ESAs that are a two

4122
03:25:44,790 --> 03:25:47,440
to one or a three to one was done in Unicorn Lake.

4123
03:25:47,440 --> 03:25:50,440
And this is almost a one to one mitigation factor.

4124
03:25:50,440 --> 03:25:54,709
So I would like to see something significantly more than

4125
03:25:54,709 --> 03:25:57,440
what's being proposed to us now.

4126
03:25:57,440 --> 03:26:01,260
If this body does the desire of the body, I will say we

4127
03:26:01,260 --> 03:26:05,469
will have to approach the applicant and see the viability

4128
03:26:05,469 --> 03:26:06,440
of that.

4129
03:26:06,440 --> 03:26:10,590
Definitely, whatever they can do for water quality, the

4130
03:26:10,590 --> 03:26:13,120
staff will be able to sit down with them and discuss and

4131
03:26:13,120 --> 03:26:15,440
brainstorm what they're proposing.

4132
03:26:15,440 --> 03:26:18,809
But that will be something that it will have to come as a

4133
03:26:18,809 --> 03:26:21,440
condition for approval at this point.

4134
03:26:21,440 --> 03:26:24,559
Or would that be something that could come back to us so we

4135
03:26:24,559 --> 03:26:26,440
could see what they proposed?

4136
03:26:26,440 --> 03:26:29,440
We could postpone for a future date.

4137
03:26:29,440 --> 03:26:29,440
Correct.

4138
03:26:29,440 --> 03:26:32,610
And see what other mitigation factors they have included in

4139
03:26:32,610 --> 03:26:33,440
their plan.

4140
03:26:33,440 --> 03:26:36,440
That's definitely possible.

4141
03:26:36,440 --> 03:26:38,440
Thank you.

4142
03:26:38,440 --> 03:26:40,440
Commissioner Hatchbeth.

4143
03:26:40,440 --> 03:26:41,440
Thank you, sir.

4144
03:26:41,440 --> 03:26:43,440
I have a list.

4145
03:26:43,440 --> 03:26:44,440
So bear with me.

4146
03:26:44,440 --> 03:26:50,920
First, top of mind, I have to beg to differ on Unicorn Lake

4147
03:26:50,920 --> 03:26:51,440
.

4148
03:26:51,440 --> 03:26:54,440
That's not apples to apples at all.

4149
03:26:54,440 --> 03:27:01,350
As far as the amount of land use, I mean, look at an area

4150
03:27:01,350 --> 03:27:05,440
of Unicorn Lake and factor in the new addition that's going

4151
03:27:05,440 --> 03:27:11,440
into the north of the movie theater there.

4152
03:27:11,440 --> 03:27:16,459
There's absolutely zero green space for as far as the eye

4153
03:27:16,459 --> 03:27:17,440
can see.

4154
03:27:17,440 --> 03:27:21,709
And so to compare the mitigation to something that is solid

4155
03:27:21,709 --> 03:27:25,879
cement to something to a developer that is made a consider

4156
03:27:25,879 --> 03:27:30,440
ate -- so you're talking 300 feet, that's 100 yards.

4157
03:27:30,440 --> 03:27:35,040
So that would be like saying sitting in the end zone or

4158
03:27:35,040 --> 03:27:39,840
sitting a football field away from the end zone are good

4159
03:27:39,840 --> 03:27:42,440
seats for a football game.

4160
03:27:42,440 --> 03:27:47,440
You're so far away.

4161
03:27:47,440 --> 03:27:51,190
And so I think it's an error to compare Unicorn Lake to

4162
03:27:51,190 --> 03:27:55,379
this project when it comes to mitigation because they have

4163
03:27:55,379 --> 03:27:59,440
built in 100 yards, to use football examples, worth of

4164
03:27:59,440 --> 03:28:04,440
mitigation in advance of going one for one on what they're

4165
03:28:04,440 --> 03:28:04,440
taking out.

4166
03:28:04,440 --> 03:28:09,440
So I think your math is off to say that it's one for one.

4167
03:28:09,440 --> 03:28:14,340
I think it's considerably much more based on the fact that

4168
03:28:14,340 --> 03:28:18,440
they're not utilizing the entire property.

4169
03:28:18,440 --> 03:28:24,000
And then I have to follow the chair's direction and zero in

4170
03:28:24,000 --> 03:28:27,440
on what we're tasked with today.

4171
03:28:27,440 --> 03:28:33,440
And so that's not to consider the gas pumps.

4172
03:28:33,440 --> 03:28:36,709
That's to consider that small area that's the other side of

4173
03:28:36,709 --> 03:28:37,440
the lake.

4174
03:28:37,440 --> 03:28:40,440
So -- or the pond.

4175
03:28:40,440 --> 03:28:44,760
So to think that something concerning that to the north of

4176
03:28:44,760 --> 03:28:49,479
the pond would somehow make its way around the pond all the

4177
03:28:49,479 --> 03:28:57,440
way to the back of the property, 300 yards down to the

4178
03:28:57,440 --> 03:29:01,840
residents, to the drainage that's not being monitored in

4179
03:29:01,840 --> 03:29:06,440
the neighborhood, I think that's a little onerous and I don

4180
03:29:06,440 --> 03:29:06,440
't think it's worth it.

4181
03:29:06,440 --> 03:29:09,440
I don't think it's what we're tasked with today.

4182
03:29:09,440 --> 03:29:13,440
And then we've had a hearty discussion.

4183
03:29:13,440 --> 03:29:16,440
The citizens have spoke.

4184
03:29:16,440 --> 03:29:20,440
There were, I count, nine people that came down.

4185
03:29:20,440 --> 03:29:25,440
One plus, one for, eight against.

4186
03:29:25,440 --> 03:29:31,430
Not one mention of what we're tasked with today, which is

4187
03:29:31,430 --> 03:29:35,440
that area at the top north of the property.

4188
03:29:35,440 --> 03:29:39,440
But for the canopy and the tree placement.

4189
03:29:39,440 --> 03:29:46,510
I can give you a list of noise buffer, light buffer, 50

4190
03:29:46,510 --> 03:29:49,440
foot buffer, trees.

4191
03:29:49,440 --> 03:29:50,440
And so there's a myriad.

4192
03:29:50,440 --> 03:29:53,590
I won't read you the whole list, but I wrote it all down

4193
03:29:53,590 --> 03:29:55,440
because it's all important.

4194
03:29:55,440 --> 03:29:59,440
So I just think that we do need to refocus.

4195
03:29:59,440 --> 03:30:03,290
I do think Mr. Rizal makes a great point, the trees, to add

4196
03:30:03,290 --> 03:30:07,440
the language that it be in that particular area, in a

4197
03:30:07,440 --> 03:30:11,440
certain area, determined in a certain area.

4198
03:30:11,440 --> 03:30:14,739
But I just think it, for me, again, looking at aerial map,

4199
03:30:14,739 --> 03:30:17,879
you can't get back on the highway before you reach Unicorn

4200
03:30:17,879 --> 03:30:18,440
Lake.

4201
03:30:18,440 --> 03:30:22,420
So if Unicorn Lake received an exception and we talk about

4202
03:30:22,420 --> 03:30:24,440
consistency constantly,

4203
03:30:24,440 --> 03:30:28,280
then I find it difficult to say, well, before you can get

4204
03:30:28,280 --> 03:30:31,459
back on I-35, we're going to have a total different

4205
03:30:31,459 --> 03:30:34,120
approach to this property that's using a lot less of the

4206
03:30:34,120 --> 03:30:34,440
land.

4207
03:30:34,440 --> 03:30:38,569
And whereas Unicorn Lake is continually filling in with

4208
03:30:38,569 --> 03:30:39,440
cement.

4209
03:30:39,440 --> 03:30:41,440
So that's my two cents worth.

4210
03:30:41,440 --> 03:30:42,440
Thank you.

4211
03:30:42,440 --> 03:30:44,440
Thank you.

4212
03:30:44,440 --> 03:30:46,440
Commissioner Taylor.

4213
03:30:46,440 --> 03:30:50,440
Thank you, Chair.

4214
03:30:50,440 --> 03:30:57,159
So I will return to the -- we know that the road diagram is

4215
03:30:57,159 --> 03:30:58,440
incorrect right now.

4216
03:30:58,440 --> 03:31:01,440
We know that some things are going to have to change.

4217
03:31:01,440 --> 03:31:06,440
And that road currently encroaches on that 50-foot buffer.

4218
03:31:06,440 --> 03:31:09,440
I'm curious about the exact wording of the buffer because I

4219
03:31:09,440 --> 03:31:12,629
would also assume there would be a radius on the buffer at

4220
03:31:12,629 --> 03:31:16,280
the corner of the last residential lot to the very far

4221
03:31:16,280 --> 03:31:17,440
north lot there.

4222
03:31:17,440 --> 03:31:21,440
And that wasn't represented in the diagram we've seen.

4223
03:31:21,440 --> 03:31:26,459
And I think that in the 13,000 square feet disturbed and

4224
03:31:26,459 --> 03:31:29,989
the mitigation for that, that very well might be a much

4225
03:31:29,989 --> 03:31:33,440
smaller number disturbed once the plan becomes finalized,

4226
03:31:33,440 --> 03:31:37,250
especially if that end gets reduced to two lanes of traffic

4227
03:31:37,250 --> 03:31:40,440
or shifted slightly or whatever may happen.

4228
03:31:40,440 --> 03:31:45,200
But what we have in front of us, this .1% additional

4229
03:31:45,200 --> 03:31:48,440
mitigation and lower canopy numbers,

4230
03:31:48,440 --> 03:31:51,930
and I agree with Commissioner Briegel that mitigation

4231
03:31:51,930 --> 03:31:57,760
anywhere in the area, if it's mitigation on the -- it's

4232
03:31:57,760 --> 03:32:00,440
very hard because this is kind of north.

4233
03:32:00,440 --> 03:32:05,569
North is to the left on this, but mitigation in the

4234
03:32:05,569 --> 03:32:11,659
southeast side of the existing lake or additional ESA, up

4235
03:32:11,659 --> 03:32:17,850
land ESA along the northeast side of the lake or any other

4236
03:32:17,850 --> 03:32:18,440
possibility.

4237
03:32:18,440 --> 03:32:20,360
There are a lot of possibilities here, and especially if

4238
03:32:20,360 --> 03:32:23,459
you already have plans for some kind of landscape buffer,

4239
03:32:23,459 --> 03:32:27,440
make it permanent and declared an ESA.

4240
03:32:27,440 --> 03:32:31,280
And I do get a little more clarification about what the 50-

4241
03:32:31,280 --> 03:32:33,440
foot landscape buffer will be.

4242
03:32:33,440 --> 03:32:37,100
And if there are concerns, either from the applicant or

4243
03:32:37,100 --> 03:32:40,690
from the neighborhood regarding the requirements of the

4244
03:32:40,690 --> 03:32:41,440
overlay,

4245
03:32:41,440 --> 03:32:43,840
I think we could look at the overlay at the same time if

4246
03:32:43,840 --> 03:32:45,440
the applicant wants to do that.

4247
03:32:45,440 --> 03:32:48,559
But I think we can't -- we don't know what the answer is

4248
03:32:48,559 --> 03:32:51,440
going to be, and we're leaving a whole lot of wiggle room

4249
03:32:51,440 --> 03:32:55,440
and without a lot of outcome -- without a lot of safeties.

4250
03:32:55,440 --> 03:32:59,110
So for this reason, I would like to move to postpone this

4251
03:32:59,110 --> 03:33:01,440
to date certain of our next meeting,

4252
03:33:01,440 --> 03:33:03,440
and hopefully this can come forward with the final plat,

4253
03:33:03,440 --> 03:33:05,750
because the final plat, you'll know where the road is and

4254
03:33:05,750 --> 03:33:09,440
you'll know where that 50-foot buffer is.

4255
03:33:09,440 --> 03:33:13,260
And we can nail down the square foot disturbed and any

4256
03:33:13,260 --> 03:33:16,440
additional mitigation that gets added.

4257
03:33:16,440 --> 03:33:19,719
I'm going to call on staff to ask if they have any timeline

4258
03:33:19,719 --> 03:33:22,440
on the final plat before we entertain that.

4259
03:33:22,440 --> 03:33:26,440
Thank you, Chairperson Strange. I was just trying to run

4260
03:33:26,440 --> 03:33:26,440
the schedule in my mind.

4261
03:33:26,440 --> 03:33:28,659
I do not know when the final plat will be submitted. That

4262
03:33:28,659 --> 03:33:31,440
is something we would have to discuss with the applicant.

4263
03:33:31,440 --> 03:33:35,440
So two weeks might be too premature. I do not know.

4264
03:33:35,440 --> 03:33:37,190
But it's something we can maybe ask the applicant to tell

4265
03:33:37,190 --> 03:33:38,440
us when they anticipate submitting,

4266
03:33:38,440 --> 03:33:41,590
because we also have a review time associated with the

4267
03:33:41,590 --> 03:33:42,440
final plat.

4268
03:33:42,440 --> 03:33:46,440
So it wouldn't be just a couple of weeks.

4269
03:33:46,440 --> 03:33:49,629
And I could adjust my motion to the correct date, whether

4270
03:33:49,629 --> 03:33:51,440
it's four weeks, six weeks.

4271
03:33:51,440 --> 03:33:54,989
Or if we could just seek legal counsel if we could say once

4272
03:33:54,989 --> 03:33:58,190
final plat is submitted and ready to be placed on an agenda

4273
03:33:58,190 --> 03:33:59,440
. I don't know.

4274
03:33:59,440 --> 03:34:05,370
Excuse me. I think that would be just a motion to postpone

4275
03:34:05,370 --> 03:34:08,440
indefinitely and set a four-date certain.

4276
03:34:08,440 --> 03:34:15,069
And I would move to postpone indefinitely pending

4277
03:34:15,069 --> 03:34:19,440
submission of the final plat.

4278
03:34:19,440 --> 03:34:23,440
I have a first and.

4279
03:34:23,440 --> 03:34:25,840
I'm trying to second, but my button's not on. I know. I'm

4280
03:34:25,840 --> 03:34:26,440
waiting on you.

4281
03:34:26,440 --> 03:34:30,569
Can I second that? Oh, Larry beat me to it. All right. You

4282
03:34:30,569 --> 03:34:31,440
get credit this time.

4283
03:34:31,440 --> 03:34:34,700
Well, I don't know on our board. I think we may have gotten

4284
03:34:34,700 --> 03:34:35,440
out of turn.

4285
03:34:35,440 --> 03:34:39,100
I think Devin just had a request to speak. And I think when

4286
03:34:39,100 --> 03:34:42,700
you chimed in, you became the motioner rather than the

4287
03:34:42,700 --> 03:34:43,440
seconder.

4288
03:34:43,440 --> 03:34:45,440
So the board has now been corrected.

4289
03:34:45,440 --> 03:34:49,450
Commissioner Taylor has made a motion and we have a second

4290
03:34:49,450 --> 03:34:51,440
er of Commissioner Bruegel.

4291
03:34:51,440 --> 03:34:56,180
If you'd like to make your recognized Commissioner Bruegel

4292
03:34:56,180 --> 03:34:57,440
for a second.

4293
03:34:57,440 --> 03:35:01,440
Oh, no. Sorry. Yes. No, I second that motion. Yes. Pardon.

4294
03:35:01,440 --> 03:35:07,069
We have a. We have a first. I'm sorry, Chair. I did have a

4295
03:35:07,069 --> 03:35:08,440
question, though.

4296
03:35:08,440 --> 03:35:11,440
I'm going to open it for discussion. Okay.

4297
03:35:11,440 --> 03:35:15,280
We have a first and second before us to table this item

4298
03:35:15,280 --> 03:35:18,440
indefinitely pending a final plat.

4299
03:35:18,440 --> 03:35:24,440
And I'm going to open it for discussion on this motion.

4300
03:35:24,440 --> 03:35:27,440
Commissioner Beck. Okay. It wasn't on this motion, though.

4301
03:35:27,440 --> 03:35:30,440
I was just curious. Mr. Evans made a good point.

4302
03:35:30,440 --> 03:35:35,610
Why we're not counting tree mitigation with that part of

4303
03:35:35,610 --> 03:35:39,770
the road just adjacent to the repairing buffer that we're

4304
03:35:39,770 --> 03:35:40,440
going to be removing.

4305
03:35:40,440 --> 03:35:42,989
As that road comes in there to the west of it, I guess it

4306
03:35:42,989 --> 03:35:43,440
may.

4307
03:35:43,440 --> 03:35:48,840
There are some trees there. Were they not part of the

4308
03:35:48,840 --> 03:35:50,440
mitigation?

4309
03:35:50,440 --> 03:35:52,649
Julie, would you please put up with my. I think what you're

4310
03:35:52,649 --> 03:35:55,440
referring to when we talk about mitigation,

4311
03:35:55,440 --> 03:35:58,790
I don't want to confuse mitigation as it relates to our

4312
03:35:58,790 --> 03:36:02,909
tree code and as it relates to mitigation for development

4313
03:36:02,909 --> 03:36:04,440
or to go vertical.

4314
03:36:04,440 --> 03:36:07,569
But if we're specifically referring to the mitigation as it

4315
03:36:07,569 --> 03:36:10,559
relates to the hatched area on that exhibit that you see on

4316
03:36:10,559 --> 03:36:13,440
your screen, is that what you're referring to?

4317
03:36:13,440 --> 03:36:17,440
Yes. We're obviously going to.

4318
03:36:17,440 --> 03:36:19,649
Applicants obviously going to have to pull some trees out

4319
03:36:19,649 --> 03:36:21,440
of there to bring that road through there.

4320
03:36:21,440 --> 03:36:25,649
Yes. Were we addressing those trees, too, when we were

4321
03:36:25,649 --> 03:36:27,440
talking? No.

4322
03:36:27,440 --> 03:36:29,440
Not as part of this request. No.

4323
03:36:29,440 --> 03:36:33,319
The request before you is to review the opportunity to

4324
03:36:33,319 --> 03:36:37,680
create an alternative ESA, an alternative environmentally

4325
03:36:37,680 --> 03:36:39,440
sensitive area.

4326
03:36:39,440 --> 03:36:43,440
Because there is an area that is being impacted.

4327
03:36:43,440 --> 03:36:49,440
The area that is being impacted is what would be mitigated.

4328
03:36:49,440 --> 03:36:52,549
It would not be mitigated. And I'm going to, Deborah, use

4329
03:36:52,549 --> 03:36:53,440
your term apples to apples,

4330
03:36:53,440 --> 03:36:58,239
but it would be mitigated in a manner to achieve both types

4331
03:36:58,239 --> 03:37:01,440
of elements such as gray and green.

4332
03:37:01,440 --> 03:37:05,440
Okay. Okay. That's clarification. Thank you.

4333
03:37:05,440 --> 03:37:08,440
Commissioner Roselle. Thank you, Chair.

4334
03:37:08,440 --> 03:37:10,920
First, I want to thank everyone for coming out and staying

4335
03:37:10,920 --> 03:37:13,440
late and providing input from the citizens perspective.

4336
03:37:13,440 --> 03:37:15,920
We all have unique perspectives, so it's helpful to hear

4337
03:37:15,920 --> 03:37:19,440
others. So I appreciate those concerns.

4338
03:37:19,440 --> 03:37:23,319
I would try to steer the conversation back to where the

4339
03:37:23,319 --> 03:37:26,440
Chair pointed us at the time of discussion.

4340
03:37:26,440 --> 03:37:29,569
And I would just go on record, mimic a lot of what

4341
03:37:29,569 --> 03:37:32,799
Commissioner Hudspeth said in terms of what we're charged

4342
03:37:32,799 --> 03:37:33,440
with tonight.

4343
03:37:33,440 --> 03:37:35,989
And a couple things that came to mind, as I noted, as

4344
03:37:35,989 --> 03:37:39,190
Commissioner Taylor talked about the one-to-one mitigation

4345
03:37:39,190 --> 03:37:42,819
not being enough compared to other potential ADPs that are

4346
03:37:42,819 --> 03:37:43,440
approved.

4347
03:37:43,440 --> 03:37:47,100
I haven't privy to other ADPs, so I don't know the nuances

4348
03:37:47,100 --> 03:37:50,770
of other ADPs for ESA requirements, but I think it's worth

4349
03:37:50,770 --> 03:37:54,440
noting that it's a one-to-one-ish mitigation on the trees.

4350
03:37:54,440 --> 03:37:59,670
It's not on the maturity of canopy or on the gray solution

4351
03:37:59,670 --> 03:38:01,440
they provided.

4352
03:38:01,440 --> 03:38:04,540
So the mitigation is not just looking at trees to trees. It

4353
03:38:04,540 --> 03:38:06,739
's looking at the totality of what they're trying to

4354
03:38:06,739 --> 03:38:07,440
mitigate with.

4355
03:38:07,440 --> 03:38:11,250
And I think providing two massively, seemingly what looks

4356
03:38:11,250 --> 03:38:14,889
like expensive mechanical operations to help with water

4357
03:38:14,889 --> 03:38:17,440
clarity goes into that mitigation.

4358
03:38:17,440 --> 03:38:20,200
So I don't think it's a one-to-one, and I think it's

4359
03:38:20,200 --> 03:38:23,389
selling short what the applicant's trying to do to say it's

4360
03:38:23,389 --> 03:38:25,440
just a one-for-one mitigation.

4361
03:38:25,440 --> 03:38:28,110
And then second of all, we've had a lot of talk about what

4362
03:38:28,110 --> 03:38:30,770
to do with the road, what to do with buffers, what to do

4363
03:38:30,770 --> 03:38:33,440
with landscape, and I don't think any of that's relevant.

4364
03:38:33,440 --> 03:38:38,479
And if their road on this map shows that it's crossing into

4365
03:38:38,479 --> 03:38:42,600
a landscape buffer, then it's on them to come back with a

4366
03:38:42,600 --> 03:38:43,440
solution.

4367
03:38:43,440 --> 03:38:47,760
We've presented it to them graciously. We've provided them

4368
03:38:47,760 --> 03:38:50,440
an error to their road, it seems like.

4369
03:38:50,440 --> 03:38:53,559
But that's not what we're doing tonight. We're not saying

4370
03:38:53,559 --> 03:38:56,670
that road can't go there. I don't think that has to -- it

4371
03:38:56,670 --> 03:38:59,440
shouldn't play into this vote at all.

4372
03:38:59,440 --> 03:39:04,770
And then maybe the last thing is that square footage of ESA

4373
03:39:04,770 --> 03:39:08,440
to be removed seems pretty defined.

4374
03:39:08,440 --> 03:39:12,229
And so I'm not sure where the language of wiggle room comes

4375
03:39:12,229 --> 03:39:14,440
in in terms of approving this.

4376
03:39:14,440 --> 03:39:17,750
We're approving a set geographic area in which they can

4377
03:39:17,750 --> 03:39:21,319
remove trees with the provision that these five things are

4378
03:39:21,319 --> 03:39:22,440
taken care of.

4379
03:39:22,440 --> 03:39:26,860
And if we look just at that, and that's what we're charged

4380
03:39:26,860 --> 03:39:31,010
at tonight, I'm opposed of postponing this because that's

4381
03:39:31,010 --> 03:39:33,889
not what -- it seems like we're postponing it to bring

4382
03:39:33,889 --> 03:39:36,680
other things that aren't ever on this agenda to be

4383
03:39:36,680 --> 03:39:38,440
discussed for this agenda item.

4384
03:39:38,440 --> 03:39:40,540
And it goes back to what we talked about last meeting in

4385
03:39:40,540 --> 03:39:42,790
terms of bringing other things into the agenda that's not

4386
03:39:42,790 --> 03:39:44,440
necessarily what we're looking at.

4387
03:39:44,440 --> 03:39:48,959
This isn't a Buckeyes thing. This isn't a buffer. This is

4388
03:39:48,959 --> 03:39:53,180
should we allow a road to cut through an environmentally

4389
03:39:53,180 --> 03:39:56,440
sensitive area provided there's some mitigation?

4390
03:39:56,440 --> 03:40:02,219
And so for that reason, I couldn't support postponing this

4391
03:40:02,219 --> 03:40:05,440
to bring in extraneous items.

4392
03:40:05,440 --> 03:40:07,440
>> Commissioner Hodgebuth.

4393
03:40:07,440 --> 03:40:16,000
>> Again, same points I'll add to that. Again, for the sake

4394
03:40:16,000 --> 03:40:19,809
of consistency, I just -- I don't think this -- and yet it

4395
03:40:19,809 --> 03:40:22,440
's absolutely on point with last week.

4396
03:40:22,440 --> 03:40:28,280
So if we're going to approve a property just on its face

4397
03:40:28,280 --> 03:40:32,920
and wait for the final clap, I think it's imperative that

4398
03:40:32,920 --> 03:40:34,440
we show that consistency.

4399
03:40:34,440 --> 03:40:42,270
And again, with the -- a proximity to Unicorn Lake to do

4400
03:40:42,270 --> 03:40:48,979
for someone mere blocks away for someone and do it

4401
03:40:48,979 --> 03:40:52,440
different here is -- sets a dangerous precedent.

4402
03:40:52,440 --> 03:40:57,540
And to then say an applicant can no longer bifurcate how

4403
03:40:57,540 --> 03:41:02,909
they present something to us is -- it just sets a dangerous

4404
03:41:02,909 --> 03:41:04,440
precedent.

4405
03:41:04,440 --> 03:41:09,299
And I think it's -- I don't think that's what's in front of

4406
03:41:09,299 --> 03:41:10,440
us today.

4407
03:41:10,440 --> 03:41:12,440
What's in front of us today is pretty clear.

4408
03:41:12,440 --> 03:41:17,370
And so if the mover and the second wants to take issue with

4409
03:41:17,370 --> 03:41:22,780
that specific issue, again, I have not heard anyone, not

4410
03:41:22,780 --> 03:41:28,440
even a citizen, address that during the open discussion.

4411
03:41:28,440 --> 03:41:34,440
There's no mention of the machinery to pump the new water.

4412
03:41:34,440 --> 03:41:35,440
None of that was discussed.

4413
03:41:35,440 --> 03:41:40,770
No issues with that were brought up during the public

4414
03:41:40,770 --> 03:41:42,440
discussion.

4415
03:41:42,440 --> 03:41:47,459
So I think for the task we have in front of us today to

4416
03:41:47,459 --> 03:41:52,860
make a logical leap away from that task sets a dangerous

4417
03:41:52,860 --> 03:41:54,440
precedent.

4418
03:41:54,440 --> 03:41:57,440
I have the next request to speak.

4419
03:41:57,440 --> 03:42:01,489
I'm going to echo the concerns of Commissioner Hussbuth and

4420
03:42:01,489 --> 03:42:05,389
Roselle that I won't be supporting this motion and for the

4421
03:42:05,389 --> 03:42:08,790
reason being is because the only item before us is the

4422
03:42:08,790 --> 03:42:12,440
alternative ESA and that is the space that is defined.

4423
03:42:12,440 --> 03:42:15,739
And if -- as has been pointed out to the applicant, if the

4424
03:42:15,739 --> 03:42:18,909
road has to be moved and it falls outside the ESA, then

4425
03:42:18,909 --> 03:42:22,440
they have to come back before us and revise their plan.

4426
03:42:22,440 --> 03:42:25,440
And so that's their burden.

4427
03:42:25,440 --> 03:42:28,440
I do believe also there are several other points of merit.

4428
03:42:28,440 --> 03:42:32,100
I do believe the storm interceptors improve the existing

4429
03:42:32,100 --> 03:42:34,440
water quality that's over there.

4430
03:42:34,440 --> 03:42:37,610
Currently right now there is all the water that comes off

4431
03:42:37,610 --> 03:42:40,440
of I-35 with all the pollutants come down.

4432
03:42:40,440 --> 03:42:43,440
It is not filtered in any way and comes into that pond.

4433
03:42:43,440 --> 03:42:48,100
I believe the storm interceptors will improve that as it is

4434
03:42:48,100 --> 03:42:48,440
.

4435
03:42:48,440 --> 03:42:52,850
I also like the layout having the road where it comes

4436
03:42:52,850 --> 03:42:57,659
through the ESA because it is going to remove traffic off

4437
03:42:57,659 --> 03:42:59,440
of the service road.

4438
03:42:59,440 --> 03:43:02,930
And instead of having to have access points for each of

4439
03:43:02,930 --> 03:43:06,930
these parcels and with an exit lane off of I-35, I'm very

4440
03:43:06,930 --> 03:43:10,440
concerned about the safety of people coming off of I-35.

4441
03:43:10,440 --> 03:43:15,530
And I think this is a good design and to have an ESA

4442
03:43:15,530 --> 03:43:21,440
disturbed and then replaced over people's safety.

4443
03:43:21,440 --> 03:43:25,610
I would put people's safety first that people have various

4444
03:43:25,610 --> 03:43:29,860
points to access to this property versus multiple points on

4445
03:43:29,860 --> 03:43:31,440
the service road.

4446
03:43:31,440 --> 03:43:35,559
And then I also believe that currently the tree canopy is

4447
03:43:35,559 --> 03:43:40,440
about 10,000 and the area as it is that's being added

4448
03:43:40,440 --> 03:43:44,440
currently has a tree canopy of approximately 10,000 now.

4449
03:43:44,440 --> 03:43:46,440
So it's almost a one-to-one now.

4450
03:43:46,440 --> 03:43:49,440
And as those mature, it will double.

4451
03:43:49,440 --> 03:43:51,440
It will be almost 20,000.

4452
03:43:51,440 --> 03:43:55,440
So it will be a doubling of the tree canopy.

4453
03:43:55,440 --> 03:43:58,440
And for those reasons, I will not support this motion.

4454
03:43:58,440 --> 03:44:02,440
And I will recognize Commissioner Bruegel.

4455
03:44:02,440 --> 03:44:04,440
Thank you, Chair.

4456
03:44:04,440 --> 03:44:06,440
Got a couple of points.

4457
03:44:06,440 --> 03:44:11,459
First, the Buc-E's can completely develop this property

4458
03:44:11,459 --> 03:44:15,569
without needing to cross that riparian habitat because they

4459
03:44:15,569 --> 03:44:18,440
do have that main road that cuts right through the middle.

4460
03:44:18,440 --> 03:44:21,440
There's another road on the far end of the property.

4461
03:44:21,440 --> 03:44:25,690
So you can still access all these lots without crossing the

4462
03:44:25,690 --> 03:44:29,440
riparian habitat with the exception of lot two.

4463
03:44:29,440 --> 03:44:32,909
But you could simply build that endpoint to lot two and

4464
03:44:32,909 --> 03:44:36,440
then not connect it internally to these other ones.

4465
03:44:36,440 --> 03:44:38,440
I could go back around.

4466
03:44:38,440 --> 03:44:41,219
So you're still going to have the three access points to

4467
03:44:41,219 --> 03:44:44,200
develop this property without needing all the curb cuts on

4468
03:44:44,200 --> 03:44:45,440
the frontage road.

4469
03:44:45,440 --> 03:44:51,440
Still, they are requesting to disturb a riparian habitat.

4470
03:44:51,440 --> 03:44:55,579
And so I think that the city is obligated to ask for the

4471
03:44:55,579 --> 03:45:00,020
best and highest development possible if they intend to

4472
03:45:00,020 --> 03:45:01,440
disturb this.

4473
03:45:01,440 --> 03:45:04,389
Commissioner Hutzpeth, I disagree with you when you said

4474
03:45:04,389 --> 03:45:07,440
that no one had mentioned their concerns about this ESA.

4475
03:45:07,440 --> 03:45:10,440
In fact, I counted four speakers this evening.

4476
03:45:10,440 --> 03:45:13,440
Ms. Rosenberg talked about water quality.

4477
03:45:13,440 --> 03:45:15,440
Mr. Drake talked about loss of trees.

4478
03:45:15,440 --> 03:45:18,809
Ms. Squire talked about the need for more green space and

4479
03:45:18,809 --> 03:45:22,440
that 40 years is too long for the canopy to be restored.

4480
03:45:22,440 --> 03:45:25,440
Mr. Chance echoed a lot of those same comments.

4481
03:45:25,440 --> 03:45:29,129
And so people were staying on point with regards to the ESA

4482
03:45:29,129 --> 03:45:29,440
.

4483
03:45:29,440 --> 03:45:33,170
And I think what we are tasked with here, I think, is

4484
03:45:33,170 --> 03:45:37,440
exactly asking for more and more mitigation standards.

4485
03:45:37,440 --> 03:45:42,540
I don't think planting eight trees and providing two storm

4486
03:45:42,540 --> 03:45:49,440
scepters is frankly enough when you have a large

4487
03:45:49,440 --> 03:45:52,440
development like this that's going to have a lot of runoff.

4488
03:45:52,440 --> 03:45:56,530
And I think asking for more mitigation standards elsewhere

4489
03:45:56,530 --> 03:46:00,110
on the property is a part and parcel of dealing with an

4490
03:46:00,110 --> 03:46:02,440
alternative ESA design plan.

4491
03:46:02,440 --> 03:46:05,079
So I do think that they can, that the Buc-E's can come back

4492
03:46:05,079 --> 03:46:06,440
with something better.

4493
03:46:06,440 --> 03:46:09,440
They have a lot of ingenuity.

4494
03:46:09,440 --> 03:46:11,440
They've got a lot of creativity in their business model.

4495
03:46:11,440 --> 03:46:14,440
They've got a lot of area to work with.

4496
03:46:14,440 --> 03:46:18,690
I'm not opposed to this being there, but what's done is

4497
03:46:18,690 --> 03:46:19,440
done.

4498
03:46:19,440 --> 03:46:22,090
They're going to build, so let's make sure it's the best

4499
03:46:22,090 --> 03:46:23,440
development we can get.

4500
03:46:23,440 --> 03:46:27,540
And I think if we were to postpone this until they can come

4501
03:46:27,540 --> 03:46:32,000
up with some more creative solutions on how to protect the

4502
03:46:32,000 --> 03:46:35,440
water in that area and the land in that area,

4503
03:46:35,440 --> 03:46:38,399
I think we owe that to the citizens to give Buc-E's another

4504
03:46:38,399 --> 03:46:41,819
chance to go back to the drawing board and see what they

4505
03:46:41,819 --> 03:46:43,440
can come up with.

4506
03:46:43,440 --> 03:46:45,440
Commissioner Taylor.

4507
03:46:45,440 --> 03:46:49,440
Thank you, Chair.

4508
03:46:49,440 --> 03:46:53,969
So my main point in my motion to postpone was that we know

4509
03:46:53,969 --> 03:46:55,440
this map is wrong.

4510
03:46:55,440 --> 03:46:59,219
And we know that the outcome is going to be different than

4511
03:46:59,219 --> 03:47:00,440
what's drawn.

4512
03:47:00,440 --> 03:47:02,440
We know that road's moving.

4513
03:47:02,440 --> 03:47:04,979
It might stay within the shaded area, and they might have

4514
03:47:04,979 --> 03:47:06,440
to come back for a second ESA.

4515
03:47:06,440 --> 03:47:09,920
They have said they're going to make the road smaller than

4516
03:47:09,920 --> 03:47:11,440
it's on this drawing.

4517
03:47:11,440 --> 03:47:16,440
So if we wait four weeks, we won't delay the project a day.

4518
03:47:16,440 --> 03:47:21,170
And we can see have a better total, a better count of trees

4519
03:47:21,170 --> 03:47:26,379
, a better total disturbed canopy, a better understanding of

4520
03:47:26,379 --> 03:47:30,440
what the impact will actually be.

4521
03:47:30,440 --> 03:47:34,549
And my other point was we don't have to mitigate within 100

4522
03:47:34,549 --> 03:47:36,440
feet of disturbed ground.

4523
03:47:36,440 --> 03:47:39,040
We have a large area to mitigate on, anywhere around the

4524
03:47:39,040 --> 03:47:43,469
pond, anywhere in the neighborhood, I think, already has

4525
03:47:43,469 --> 03:47:47,440
basically a habitat corridor here with the riparian buffer

4526
03:47:47,440 --> 03:47:48,440
in the lake.

4527
03:47:48,440 --> 03:47:51,049
So it could go on the other side of the lake, and it would

4528
03:47:51,049 --> 03:47:54,440
still be beneficial, still serve its environmental purpose.

4529
03:47:54,440 --> 03:47:57,979
And the alternative environmentally sensitive plan shall

4530
03:47:57,979 --> 03:48:01,459
demonstrate that the developer's alternative proposal

4531
03:48:01,459 --> 03:48:04,420
results in a high quality development, meeting with the

4532
03:48:04,420 --> 03:48:06,440
intention of the development code.

4533
03:48:06,440 --> 03:48:09,639
And I think that's the point here is we don't have to rush

4534
03:48:09,639 --> 03:48:10,440
into this.

4535
03:48:10,440 --> 03:48:15,459
We can wait, and we can plant instead of 196 caliper inches

4536
03:48:15,459 --> 03:48:17,440
to replace 300.

4537
03:48:17,440 --> 03:48:19,440
They're already planning on planting more trees.

4538
03:48:19,440 --> 03:48:23,219
Just put them in the plan, you know, extend that blue area

4539
03:48:23,219 --> 03:48:26,930
another few hundred feet with six more trees or eight more

4540
03:48:26,930 --> 03:48:31,799
trees, and get the final location of the road and know the

4541
03:48:31,799 --> 03:48:34,440
actual disturbance that's going to be going in.

4542
03:48:34,440 --> 03:48:36,979
And that's the reason why I think we should postpone this

4543
03:48:36,979 --> 03:48:39,690
until the final plot is submitted, because then at least we

4544
03:48:39,690 --> 03:48:41,440
'll have a final plot to work with.

4545
03:48:41,440 --> 03:48:42,440
Thank you.

4546
03:48:42,440 --> 03:48:44,440
Commissioner Hedgbeth.

4547
03:48:44,440 --> 03:48:53,840
Just renewing last week, we altered our plan based on a tim

4548
03:48:53,840 --> 03:49:01,909
etable that the applicant set forth and did not require that

4549
03:49:01,909 --> 03:49:05,440
entity to present its final plan.

4550
03:49:05,440 --> 03:49:06,440
Same questions.

4551
03:49:06,440 --> 03:49:09,719
Same questions as to location of building, location of

4552
03:49:09,719 --> 03:49:10,440
parking.

4553
03:49:10,440 --> 03:49:12,440
There's lots of uncertainty.

4554
03:49:12,440 --> 03:49:13,440
There's even more.

4555
03:49:13,440 --> 03:49:17,979
We don't even have a rendering, and this same body okayed

4556
03:49:17,979 --> 03:49:19,440
that last week.

4557
03:49:19,440 --> 03:49:25,299
And this week, a couple weeks later, we turn around and say

4558
03:49:25,299 --> 03:49:31,389
we need everything certain, nailed down, when we don't have

4559
03:49:31,389 --> 03:49:36,370
to have that area, if they change their plans, they don't

4560
03:49:36,370 --> 03:49:38,440
have to come back.

4561
03:49:38,440 --> 03:49:41,870
If they stay within that area that's approved tonight, they

4562
03:49:41,870 --> 03:49:43,440
don't have to come back.

4563
03:49:43,440 --> 03:49:48,639
And so I think it's just short-sighted on the business side

4564
03:49:48,639 --> 03:49:53,540
of the business to treat one entity different than the

4565
03:49:53,540 --> 03:49:54,440
other.

4566
03:49:54,440 --> 03:49:57,649
I mean, that's just, to me, it is on point, and it is

4567
03:49:57,649 --> 03:49:59,440
exactly the same thing.

4568
03:49:59,440 --> 03:50:01,440
There are no plans for two weeks ago.

4569
03:50:01,440 --> 03:50:06,459
There's not one drawing, not one rendering, and this same

4570
03:50:06,459 --> 03:50:08,440
body approved that.

4571
03:50:08,440 --> 03:50:13,790
And this, when asked to stay on task here, differing

4572
03:50:13,790 --> 03:50:19,209
interpretations if we're on task, is now all of a sudden

4573
03:50:19,209 --> 03:50:23,440
going to burden this applicant with final plans.

4574
03:50:23,440 --> 03:50:28,120
And I just think that is, again, sets a dangerous precedent

4575
03:50:28,120 --> 03:50:32,440
given the fact that it's in near proximity to another area

4576
03:50:32,440 --> 03:50:38,989
where it's nothing but cement, and there's a green filter

4577
03:50:38,989 --> 03:50:41,440
over the drain.

4578
03:50:41,440 --> 03:50:43,440
Commissioner Taylor.

4579
03:50:43,440 --> 03:50:44,440
Thank you, Chair.

4580
03:50:44,440 --> 03:50:51,000
I believe Commissioner Hutspeth is referring to rezoning a

4581
03:50:51,000 --> 03:50:53,440
piece of property. Is that the case you were referring to

4582
03:50:53,440 --> 03:50:53,440
at our last meeting?

4583
03:50:53,440 --> 03:50:56,479
No, sir. I'm referring to making a decision without a final

4584
03:50:56,479 --> 03:50:57,440
plan in front of us.

4585
03:50:57,440 --> 03:50:58,440
Simply that.

4586
03:50:58,440 --> 03:51:01,540
Well, so we have different criteria for different cases

4587
03:51:01,540 --> 03:51:02,440
that we hear.

4588
03:51:02,440 --> 03:51:05,440
Zoning is the use of land.

4589
03:51:05,440 --> 03:51:09,309
And in zoning, we don't want to consider what's proposed

4590
03:51:09,309 --> 03:51:13,100
because zoning is permanent and stays with the land so we

4591
03:51:13,100 --> 03:51:15,440
can get a nice pretty drawing.

4592
03:51:15,440 --> 03:51:18,229
The minute they have it rezoned, they can do anything that

4593
03:51:18,229 --> 03:51:19,440
's allowed by the use.

4594
03:51:19,440 --> 03:51:23,569
And so I think that's why there's a difference in

4595
03:51:23,569 --> 03:51:28,469
considering zoning versus considering an alternative

4596
03:51:28,469 --> 03:51:30,440
development plan.

4597
03:51:30,440 --> 03:51:31,440
Commissioner Dudowitz.

4598
03:51:31,440 --> 03:51:35,799
Question for staff. When we see a final plan on this

4599
03:51:35,799 --> 03:51:38,440
property, what will we see?

4600
03:51:38,440 --> 03:51:41,440
What will we see on that plan?

4601
03:51:41,440 --> 03:51:43,440
We see a layout, centered to what the concept is?

4602
03:51:43,440 --> 03:51:46,569
You'll see similar to the preliminary plan, however, there

4603
03:51:46,569 --> 03:51:49,290
'll be more detail as it relates to the easements or the

4604
03:51:49,290 --> 03:51:50,440
infrastructure.

4605
03:51:50,440 --> 03:51:51,440
And roads?

4606
03:51:51,440 --> 03:51:52,440
Yes.

4607
03:51:52,440 --> 03:51:53,440
All the road systems?

4608
03:51:53,440 --> 03:51:54,440
All your common access easements.

4609
03:51:54,440 --> 03:51:57,440
And the additional retaining pond will be on there?

4610
03:51:57,440 --> 03:51:59,440
Your detention facilities will also be on there.

4611
03:51:59,440 --> 03:52:02,440
The ditches and all the sewers and everything else.

4612
03:52:02,440 --> 03:52:04,440
And landscape plan will come?

4613
03:52:04,440 --> 03:52:05,440
Not with the final plan.

4614
03:52:05,440 --> 03:52:06,440
Not with your landscape plan.

4615
03:52:06,440 --> 03:52:08,440
But we will have the opportunity to see that later?

4616
03:52:08,440 --> 03:52:09,440
No.

4617
03:52:09,440 --> 03:52:10,440
No.

4618
03:52:10,440 --> 03:52:11,440
Yes.

4619
03:52:11,440 --> 03:52:13,440
Not the landscape plan.

4620
03:52:13,440 --> 03:52:14,440
No.

4621
03:52:14,440 --> 03:52:15,440
I'm sorry.

4622
03:52:15,440 --> 03:52:16,440
I thought you asked about the final plan.

4623
03:52:16,440 --> 03:52:17,440
You'll be able to see the final plan.

4624
03:52:17,440 --> 03:52:18,440
You'll be able to see the final plan.

4625
03:52:18,440 --> 03:52:19,440
In the final plan.

4626
03:52:19,440 --> 03:52:20,440
Yes.

4627
03:52:20,440 --> 03:52:21,440
Okay.

4628
03:52:21,440 --> 03:52:23,440
So there's a series of documents that will come before us

4629
03:52:23,440 --> 03:52:25,440
and we get to look at and get comments back from the--

4630
03:52:25,440 --> 03:52:26,440
Correct.

4631
03:52:26,440 --> 03:52:27,440
Thank you.

4632
03:52:27,440 --> 03:52:30,440
Just the final plan.

4633
03:52:30,440 --> 03:52:33,319
Seeing no other request to speak, I'm going to call for a

4634
03:52:33,319 --> 03:52:34,440
vote on the board.

4635
03:52:34,440 --> 03:52:38,100
And again, the motion that will be before us will be to

4636
03:52:38,100 --> 03:52:43,440
continue this item indefinitely until final plan.

4637
03:52:43,440 --> 03:52:45,440
Have I restated your motion correctly?

4638
03:52:45,440 --> 03:52:46,440
Thank you.

4639
03:52:46,440 --> 03:53:01,440
I guess I'll call for a vote on the board.

4640
03:53:01,440 --> 03:53:04,440
The motion fails 4-3.

4641
03:53:04,440 --> 03:53:08,819
Chair would open the floor for further discussion or

4642
03:53:08,819 --> 03:53:10,440
another motion.

4643
03:53:10,440 --> 03:53:14,440
The recognized Commissioner Hussbuth for a motion.

4644
03:53:14,440 --> 03:53:15,440
I move we approve.

4645
03:53:15,440 --> 03:53:20,469
But I would ask that we add the language that Commissioner

4646
03:53:20,469 --> 03:53:25,559
Roselle mentioned, that the trees be in that--in the area,

4647
03:53:25,559 --> 03:53:29,440
at least in that same area that they were removed from.

4648
03:53:29,440 --> 03:53:31,440
Okay.

4649
03:53:31,440 --> 03:53:35,100
Could I get a clarification on, I believe, the motion that

4650
03:53:35,100 --> 03:53:38,829
will be or the recommendation from staff have some--I think

4651
03:53:38,829 --> 03:53:40,440
there were five criteria.

4652
03:53:40,440 --> 03:53:42,440
Would you like to restate that and include?

4653
03:53:42,440 --> 03:53:43,440
Yes.

4654
03:53:43,440 --> 03:53:47,389
I would move approval of staff's recommendation with the

4655
03:53:47,389 --> 03:53:51,409
addition of the language specifying the trees to remain in

4656
03:53:51,409 --> 03:53:52,440
that area.

4657
03:53:52,440 --> 03:53:56,579
So the five already existing conditions from staff and add

4658
03:53:56,579 --> 03:54:00,440
a sixth one with Commissioner Roselle's language.

4659
03:54:00,440 --> 03:54:01,440
That is correct.

4660
03:54:01,440 --> 03:54:04,459
I think there was also a suggestion of another condition

4661
03:54:04,459 --> 03:54:07,440
regarding monthly reporting or annual reporting.

4662
03:54:07,440 --> 03:54:10,440
I believe that was from Commissioner Bruegel.

4663
03:54:10,440 --> 03:54:12,440
And potentially inspections.

4664
03:54:12,440 --> 03:54:16,760
And just to clarify, also to include the schematic or the

4665
03:54:16,760 --> 03:54:19,440
site plan associated with this.

4666
03:54:19,440 --> 03:54:26,159
So as Chair, I'll ask Commissioner Hussbuth if you'd like

4667
03:54:26,159 --> 03:54:31,440
to restate your motion and get all of that.

4668
03:54:31,440 --> 03:54:33,440
Okay.

4669
03:54:33,440 --> 03:54:34,440
I didn't write that down.

4670
03:54:34,440 --> 03:54:35,440
I got it.

4671
03:54:35,440 --> 03:54:36,440
No.

4672
03:54:36,440 --> 03:54:41,030
I would move that we accept with staff's five

4673
03:54:41,030 --> 03:54:46,090
recommendations adding to that language regarding the trees

4674
03:54:46,090 --> 03:54:52,440
to be located in the same area where they are being removed

4675
03:54:52,440 --> 03:54:52,440
.

4676
03:54:52,440 --> 03:55:00,670
Adding language that the pumping system be monitored and

4677
03:55:00,670 --> 03:55:04,440
maintained and reporting.

4678
03:55:04,440 --> 03:55:11,440
And then there be a site plan associated with that.

4679
03:55:11,440 --> 03:55:12,440
I'm sorry.

4680
03:55:12,440 --> 03:55:16,440
Did you say annual report or monthly report?

4681
03:55:16,440 --> 03:55:17,440
Annual.

4682
03:55:17,440 --> 03:55:20,440
Is that the right answer?

4683
03:55:20,440 --> 03:55:23,440
Monthly.

4684
03:55:23,440 --> 03:55:27,139
And when you say trees in that same area, what area are you

4685
03:55:27,139 --> 03:55:28,440
talking about?

4686
03:55:28,440 --> 03:55:34,629
The area that they're removed from, from the -- I don't

4687
03:55:34,629 --> 03:55:35,440
know what they termed it.

4688
03:55:35,440 --> 03:55:40,250
But they were shifted in that area so they could reach full

4689
03:55:40,250 --> 03:55:41,440
maturity.

4690
03:55:41,440 --> 03:55:44,440
But they're not going to go in the identical location.

4691
03:55:44,440 --> 03:55:48,440
But I don't know how staff termed that area.

4692
03:55:48,440 --> 03:55:50,440
Maybe we can clarify that.

4693
03:55:50,440 --> 03:55:51,440
Yes.

4694
03:55:51,440 --> 03:55:52,440
Proposed preservation area.

4695
03:55:52,440 --> 03:55:53,440
Okay.

4696
03:55:53,440 --> 03:55:54,440
Thank you.

4697
03:55:54,440 --> 03:55:55,440
Okay.

4698
03:55:55,440 --> 03:55:58,440
So that would be your sixth condition.

4699
03:55:58,440 --> 03:56:02,299
I believe the seventh condition, maybe Commissioner Bruegel

4700
03:56:02,299 --> 03:56:05,920
, if that would be appropriate, could clarify the monitoring

4701
03:56:05,920 --> 03:56:07,440
of the storm interceptors.

4702
03:56:07,440 --> 03:56:09,440
He had six.

4703
03:56:09,440 --> 03:56:10,440
Seven.

4704
03:56:10,440 --> 03:56:11,440
Seven, I think there were eight.

4705
03:56:11,440 --> 03:56:12,440
There were seven.

4706
03:56:12,440 --> 03:56:13,440
She'll be eight.

4707
03:56:13,440 --> 03:56:14,440
She's clarifying the seventh.

4708
03:56:14,440 --> 03:56:16,440
Yes.

4709
03:56:16,440 --> 03:56:18,920
So my concern was I just wanted to make sure that the storm

4710
03:56:18,920 --> 03:56:21,770
scepters are being maintained, that they're being reported

4711
03:56:21,770 --> 03:56:24,120
to the city, and that they're being inspected on a regular

4712
03:56:24,120 --> 03:56:24,440
basis.

4713
03:56:24,440 --> 03:56:25,440
Monthly.

4714
03:56:25,440 --> 03:56:26,440
Fill in the blank.

4715
03:56:26,440 --> 03:56:28,290
I think you said annually, and I was giving you the

4716
03:56:28,290 --> 03:56:29,440
opportunity for monthly.

4717
03:56:29,440 --> 03:56:30,440
Monthly?

4718
03:56:30,440 --> 03:56:31,440
No.

4719
03:56:31,440 --> 03:56:32,440
Or annually.

4720
03:56:32,440 --> 03:56:33,440
Annually.

4721
03:56:33,440 --> 03:56:34,440
Annually sounds great.

4722
03:56:34,440 --> 03:56:35,440
Okay.

4723
03:56:35,440 --> 03:56:37,090
I just want to make sure that they're being maintained,

4724
03:56:37,090 --> 03:56:37,440
right?

4725
03:56:37,440 --> 03:56:38,440
Okay.

4726
03:56:38,440 --> 03:56:44,750
So that was our seventh and I believe the eighth item to be

4727
03:56:44,750 --> 03:56:46,440
put on this.

4728
03:56:46,440 --> 03:56:49,989
Just to make sure we're all on the same page, Deborah might

4729
03:56:49,989 --> 03:56:53,350
have a point of clarification when we're talking about

4730
03:56:53,350 --> 03:56:54,440
monitoring.

4731
03:56:54,440 --> 03:56:55,440
[INAUDIBLE]

4732
03:56:55,440 --> 03:56:59,440
Plan put together by the manufacturer.

4733
03:56:59,440 --> 03:57:03,120
Why don't we go by what is recommended by the manufacturer

4734
03:57:03,120 --> 03:57:06,590
about how often those inspections needs to be and how

4735
03:57:06,590 --> 03:57:08,440
detailed they need to be.

4736
03:57:08,440 --> 03:57:11,299
I think that that would be in line with what the

4737
03:57:11,299 --> 03:57:13,440
manufacturer would require.

4738
03:57:13,440 --> 03:57:17,170
And that's between the manufacturer and the owner, and I

4739
03:57:17,170 --> 03:57:20,739
think we're asking about the city coming in and having a

4740
03:57:20,739 --> 03:57:22,440
second look at that.

4741
03:57:22,440 --> 03:57:23,440
Correct.

4742
03:57:23,440 --> 03:57:25,440
If I understand that correctly.

4743
03:57:25,440 --> 03:57:28,299
So the applicant's responsibility is to follow the

4744
03:57:28,299 --> 03:57:31,879
manufacturer's recommendations, and then we're asking for

4745
03:57:31,879 --> 03:57:34,510
the city to be an extra pair of eyes to come in on an

4746
03:57:34,510 --> 03:57:40,440
annual basis and review that.

4747
03:57:40,440 --> 03:57:43,440
Can I amend that really quick?

4748
03:57:43,440 --> 03:57:46,440
I'm going to eventually be voting against this entire thing

4749
03:57:46,440 --> 03:57:49,379
because I think Buc-E's can do better, but as long as we're

4750
03:57:49,379 --> 03:57:50,440
making my point.

4751
03:57:50,440 --> 03:57:53,409
I would like to maybe see it twice annually during the

4752
03:57:53,409 --> 03:57:54,440
rainy season.

4753
03:57:54,440 --> 03:57:55,440
Come on out.

4754
03:57:55,440 --> 03:57:57,299
I don't want it just inspected once in August and

4755
03:57:57,299 --> 03:57:58,440
everything looks fine.

4756
03:57:58,440 --> 03:57:59,440
So.

4757
03:57:59,440 --> 03:58:00,440
Twice a year?

4758
03:58:00,440 --> 03:58:01,440
Yeah.

4759
03:58:01,440 --> 03:58:02,440
Semi-annually.

4760
03:58:02,440 --> 03:58:05,440
One more friendly amendment.

4761
03:58:05,440 --> 03:58:08,940
Let me get the eighth one and then we'll work on the ninth

4762
03:58:08,940 --> 03:58:09,440
one.

4763
03:58:09,440 --> 03:58:12,670
We had the eighth one, if you would help me with the

4764
03:58:12,670 --> 03:58:14,440
wording on the eighth.

4765
03:58:14,440 --> 03:58:17,440
I believe you had a point that you would like to make.

4766
03:58:17,440 --> 03:58:22,510
The eighth one was to ensure receipt of the annual

4767
03:58:22,510 --> 03:58:25,440
inspection twice a year.

4768
03:58:25,440 --> 03:58:28,440
So really I'm confusing the seventh and the eighth.

4769
03:58:28,440 --> 03:58:32,500
We have seven right now, and we're going to have a friendly

4770
03:58:32,500 --> 03:58:34,440
amendment for one more.

4771
03:58:34,440 --> 03:58:40,270
Just to expressly state that the access from the north end

4772
03:58:40,270 --> 03:58:45,200
will not, will be physically blocked to prevent access from

4773
03:58:45,200 --> 03:58:46,440
the interstate.

4774
03:58:46,440 --> 03:58:48,440
So if the ramp moves, it's solved.

4775
03:58:48,440 --> 03:58:56,440
And if the ramp doesn't move, then a ride in, ride out.

4776
03:58:56,440 --> 03:58:58,440
Can you restate that?

4777
03:58:58,440 --> 03:58:59,440
I'm sorry.

4778
03:58:59,440 --> 03:59:06,159
The north entrance, I would like to expressly state that

4779
03:59:06,159 --> 03:59:12,170
the north entrance have some barrier to prevent access

4780
03:59:12,170 --> 03:59:16,440
directly from the interstate off ramp.

4781
03:59:16,440 --> 03:59:18,440
So if they move the off ramp, problem solved.

4782
03:59:18,440 --> 03:59:21,659
If they don't move the off ramp, make it a ride in, ride

4783
03:59:21,659 --> 03:59:22,440
out curb.

4784
03:59:22,440 --> 03:59:23,440
That's text on it.

4785
03:59:23,440 --> 03:59:28,440
That's kind of, that's part of it.

4786
03:59:28,440 --> 03:59:34,909
We may be preempted from adding that condition because of

4787
03:59:34,909 --> 03:59:36,440
state law.

4788
03:59:36,440 --> 03:59:38,440
Commissioner Hesbuth has a motion.

4789
03:59:38,440 --> 03:59:42,700
I believe we've clarified we have seven items that are

4790
03:59:42,700 --> 03:59:45,440
attached to that for approval.

4791
03:59:45,440 --> 03:59:49,440
And have I stated your motion correctly?

4792
03:59:49,440 --> 03:59:50,440
Yes, sir.

4793
03:59:50,440 --> 03:59:51,440
Thank you.

4794
03:59:51,440 --> 03:59:54,709
Just as one point to, someone mentioned a site plan, I don

4795
03:59:54,709 --> 03:59:58,049
't know what that's in reference to, but not that it matters

4796
03:59:58,049 --> 03:59:58,440
.

4797
03:59:58,440 --> 04:00:03,440
Everything else is, if that does not matter, we're good.

4798
04:00:03,440 --> 04:00:04,440
Yes.

4799
04:00:04,440 --> 04:00:06,719
I think we have your motion to approve with the seven

4800
04:00:06,719 --> 04:00:08,989
conditions, and I think we've got the commission's work

4801
04:00:08,989 --> 04:00:10,440
together to clarify the language.

4802
04:00:10,440 --> 04:00:14,440
So thank you for giving us the opportunity to do that.

4803
04:00:14,440 --> 04:00:18,440
And I'll recognize Commissioner Rosell as a seconder.

4804
04:00:18,440 --> 04:00:20,440
I don't have to repeat the motion?

4805
04:00:20,440 --> 04:00:25,440
No.

4806
04:00:25,440 --> 04:00:27,440
I second the motion.

4807
04:00:27,440 --> 04:00:30,750
We have a first and a second on the floor, and I'll call on

4808
04:00:30,750 --> 04:00:33,440
Commissioner Detowitz for discussion.

4809
04:00:33,440 --> 04:00:36,440
I'd like to have a clarification, please.

4810
04:00:36,440 --> 04:00:40,219
With one of the adjustments, it was to leave the trees in

4811
04:00:40,219 --> 04:00:41,440
the same area.

4812
04:00:41,440 --> 04:00:43,440
I have a concern.

4813
04:00:43,440 --> 04:00:47,110
I think that we had a presentation that our arborists and

4814
04:00:47,110 --> 04:00:51,059
our landscape people suggested that we move them for the

4815
04:00:51,059 --> 04:00:54,729
sake of the benefit of these new trees and of the current

4816
04:00:54,729 --> 04:00:56,440
location, because it's so crowded there.

4817
04:00:56,440 --> 04:00:59,149
That was one of the clarifications to move it to the

4818
04:00:59,149 --> 04:01:00,440
proposed preserve.

4819
04:01:00,440 --> 04:01:03,440
I must have missed it. It must have been .10, .12.

4820
04:01:03,440 --> 04:01:06,440
It's not the same location. It is the identified area.

4821
04:01:06,440 --> 04:01:08,440
It's in that same identified area?

4822
04:01:08,440 --> 04:01:09,440
Yes.

4823
04:01:09,440 --> 04:01:14,059
I want to make sure that we don't compromise any good

4824
04:01:14,059 --> 04:01:16,440
suggestions for that.

4825
04:01:16,440 --> 04:01:19,799
And that does not preclude them from planting other trees

4826
04:01:19,799 --> 04:01:23,090
as a result from compliance with the Denton Development

4827
04:01:23,090 --> 04:01:24,440
Code in other areas?

4828
04:01:24,440 --> 04:01:25,440
Correct.

4829
04:01:25,440 --> 04:01:26,440
Just so everyone's clear.

4830
04:01:26,440 --> 04:01:28,440
Commissioner Tyler.

4831
04:01:28,440 --> 04:01:31,440
Thank you, Chair.

4832
04:01:31,440 --> 04:01:35,440
So I'm not opposed to the project necessarily.

4833
04:01:35,440 --> 04:01:41,440
I am opposed to this mitigation as it's presented here.

4834
04:01:41,440 --> 04:01:44,440
And it comes down to simple things.

4835
04:01:44,440 --> 04:01:45,440
Caliper inches.

4836
04:01:45,440 --> 04:01:48,870
I think the water quality is pretty well addressed with the

4837
04:01:48,870 --> 04:01:52,469
storm drains and enough riparian buffer to have biological

4838
04:01:52,469 --> 04:01:53,440
filtration.

4839
04:01:53,440 --> 04:01:58,370
But whenever we're replacing 310 caliper inches of trees,

4840
04:01:58,370 --> 04:02:03,760
which is 12 average diameter, or 24 average diameter of 13

4841
04:02:03,760 --> 04:02:08,229
inches trees with 8 2 inch trees basically, I think you

4842
04:02:08,229 --> 04:02:09,440
could do better.

4843
04:02:09,440 --> 04:02:11,670
And I know that you're planning on planting more trees on

4844
04:02:11,670 --> 04:02:12,440
the property.

4845
04:02:12,440 --> 04:02:15,450
So just that's why I think it's a really simple fix to

4846
04:02:15,450 --> 04:02:16,440
expand this.

4847
04:02:16,440 --> 04:02:19,809
And I would not oppose this with some minor adjustments or

4848
04:02:19,809 --> 04:02:23,190
decreasing the square footage of the disturbed area when

4849
04:02:23,190 --> 04:02:26,579
you know what your actual construction plan would be so

4850
04:02:26,579 --> 04:02:30,399
that you're only knocking out 12 trees and replacing them

4851
04:02:30,399 --> 04:02:31,440
or whatever.

4852
04:02:31,440 --> 04:02:33,409
There are a lot of ways that I think this could go forward

4853
04:02:33,409 --> 04:02:34,440
and I would approve it.

4854
04:02:34,440 --> 04:02:39,440
But as it stands now, I can't approve the details of this.

4855
04:02:39,440 --> 04:02:40,440
Commissioner Brueben.

4856
04:02:40,440 --> 04:02:42,440
Thank you, Chair.

4857
04:02:42,440 --> 04:02:46,280
Thank you, Commissioner Hutzpeth for including my storm s

4858
04:02:46,280 --> 04:02:47,440
cepter thing.

4859
04:02:47,440 --> 04:02:49,440
Yeah, in your multiple amendments there.

4860
04:02:49,440 --> 04:02:51,440
But I'm going to echo Commissioner Taylor.

4861
04:02:51,440 --> 04:02:55,440
I think that this could be much better.

4862
04:02:55,440 --> 04:02:57,440
And though I'm grateful that you've included some of our

4863
04:02:57,440 --> 04:03:01,559
thoughts in your motion, I'm going to be voting against

4864
04:03:01,559 --> 04:03:02,440
this.

4865
04:03:02,440 --> 04:03:04,440
I'm going to make a comment as well.

4866
04:03:04,440 --> 04:03:07,440
I recognize Mathel Commissioner's concerns.

4867
04:03:07,440 --> 04:03:12,639
And again, my view on this is we have the ESA only before

4868
04:03:12,639 --> 04:03:14,440
us to consider.

4869
04:03:14,440 --> 04:03:17,579
And I, as you know, as we move forward with this with the

4870
04:03:17,579 --> 04:03:20,700
final plan, that there will be many more trees that are

4871
04:03:20,700 --> 04:03:21,440
proposed.

4872
04:03:21,440 --> 04:03:24,809
And so this site will only continue to get better than what

4873
04:03:24,809 --> 04:03:27,440
it's being proposed for before us today.

4874
04:03:27,440 --> 04:03:31,479
And so I'm comfortable with supporting it and moving it

4875
04:03:31,479 --> 04:03:32,440
forward.

4876
04:03:32,440 --> 04:03:35,610
It will go before City Council, so there will be another

4877
04:03:35,610 --> 04:03:38,879
opportunity for anybody that has a concern to bring those

4878
04:03:38,879 --> 04:03:40,440
again to City Council.

4879
04:03:40,440 --> 04:03:43,600
And again, this will then come back to us again for final

4880
04:03:43,600 --> 04:03:46,440
plan and then the City Council for final plan.

4881
04:03:46,440 --> 04:03:50,489
So there are multiple more opportunities for any of you all

4882
04:03:50,489 --> 04:03:54,030
to express your concerns, your questions, some of these

4883
04:03:54,030 --> 04:03:56,440
items that you would like to have added to the proposal.

4884
04:03:56,440 --> 04:04:00,180
Many more opportunities for you all to have those addressed

4885
04:04:00,180 --> 04:04:03,030
, but also in regards to Buckees, I know they have a

4886
04:04:03,030 --> 04:04:03,440
timeframe.

4887
04:04:03,440 --> 04:04:06,180
And I think it's important for us to nail down the area

4888
04:04:06,180 --> 04:04:09,100
they have to work for, work within and let them move

4889
04:04:09,100 --> 04:04:12,440
forward with their project and continue to develop it and

4890
04:04:12,440 --> 04:04:14,440
bring those things back to us for further consideration.

4891
04:04:14,440 --> 04:04:18,440
So with that, we have no further discussion.

4892
04:04:18,440 --> 04:04:29,799
I will call for a vote on the board for approval with the

4893
04:04:29,799 --> 04:04:34,440
seven conditions.

4894
04:04:34,440 --> 04:04:37,440
Motion carries four to three.

4895
04:04:37,440 --> 04:04:40,750
I'd like to thank everybody for coming out this evening and

4896
04:04:40,750 --> 04:04:42,440
giving us your feedback.

4897
04:04:42,440 --> 04:04:45,709
And again, we encourage you to continue on to City Council

4898
04:04:45,709 --> 04:04:48,889
and then back when this is before us for final plan before

4899
04:04:48,889 --> 04:04:49,440
PNC.

4900
04:04:49,440 --> 04:04:52,440
Thank you for your participation.

4901
04:04:52,440 --> 04:05:01,209
We'll give the room a few minutes to clear before I call

4902
04:05:01,209 --> 04:05:03,440
our next item.

4903
04:05:03,440 --> 04:05:08,440
I've had a request that we take a short break.

4904
04:05:08,440 --> 04:05:19,440
So at 854, we will take a short recess.

4905
04:05:19,440 --> 04:05:21,440
Good evening and welcome back.

4906
04:05:21,440 --> 04:05:25,780
It is 907 and I'm going to call us back into session and

4907
04:05:25,780 --> 04:05:29,790
ask to make sure everybody after taking a recess that we

4908
04:05:29,790 --> 04:05:31,440
have our mics back on.

4909
04:05:31,440 --> 04:05:37,879
And I will open our next public hearing item, which is

4910
04:05:37,879 --> 04:05:42,440
going to be DCA 16-0001.

4911
04:05:42,440 --> 04:05:51,440
And I will call on Shandrian to make that presentation.

4912
04:05:51,440 --> 04:05:53,440
Having a hard time hearing you.

4913
04:05:53,440 --> 04:05:59,809
Okay. This next item is proposed amendments to the subch

4914
04:05:59,809 --> 04:06:02,440
apter 35 13 7.

4915
04:06:02,440 --> 04:06:05,440
Can you hear me?

4916
04:06:05,440 --> 04:06:06,440
Get back there.

4917
04:06:06,440 --> 04:06:07,440
Okay. Good.

4918
04:06:07,440 --> 04:06:11,229
That deal with the city's tree preservation and landscape

4919
04:06:11,229 --> 04:06:12,440
requirements.

4920
04:06:12,440 --> 04:06:15,870
The request is to hold a public hearing and consider making

4921
04:06:15,870 --> 04:06:19,420
a recommendation to City Council regarding the adoption of

4922
04:06:19,420 --> 04:06:22,920
an ordinance of the city of Denton, Texas, amending subch

4923
04:06:22,920 --> 04:06:28,440
apter 35 3 procedures, subchapter 35 13 site design

4924
04:06:28,440 --> 04:06:33,889
standards and subchapter 35 23 definitions and terms of the

4925
04:06:33,889 --> 04:06:37,280
Denton development code as it relates to tree preservation

4926
04:06:37,280 --> 04:06:40,440
and landscape requirements.

4927
04:06:40,440 --> 04:06:44,930
To begin, the existing ordinance was adopted in 2004 to

4928
04:06:44,930 --> 04:06:48,940
promote tree preservation and to facilitate the long term

4929
04:06:48,940 --> 04:06:52,440
viability of trees during site construction.

4930
04:06:52,440 --> 04:06:57,030
How this has been somewhat effective, but we recognize that

4931
04:06:57,030 --> 04:07:01,260
more is needed to further protect and expand tree canopy

4932
04:07:01,260 --> 04:07:05,489
and to provide clear guidance for tree preservation and

4933
04:07:05,489 --> 04:07:08,440
mitigation during site development.

4934
04:07:08,440 --> 04:07:15,360
Between 2007 and 2013, there were multiple attempts to

4935
04:07:15,360 --> 04:07:18,440
update this section of the DDC.

4936
04:07:18,440 --> 04:07:22,520
However, none were successful due to the lack of consensus

4937
04:07:22,520 --> 04:07:26,520
on the proposed amendments and therefore the tree code has

4938
04:07:26,520 --> 04:07:29,440
not been revised since it was adopted.

4939
04:07:29,440 --> 04:07:37,270
And this is part of the reason why in the fall of 2014,

4940
04:07:37,270 --> 04:07:44,809
City Council directed staff to proceed with this latest

4941
04:07:44,809 --> 04:07:45,440
update.

4942
04:07:45,440 --> 04:07:48,670
The proposed revisions to the tree code would accomplish

4943
04:07:48,670 --> 04:07:50,440
the following objectives.

4944
04:07:50,440 --> 04:07:54,450
It would streamline the code to make it more user friendly,

4945
04:07:54,450 --> 04:07:58,440
align city standards with the best management practices of

4946
04:07:58,440 --> 04:08:01,889
the American National Standards Institute and the

4947
04:08:01,889 --> 04:08:04,440
International Society of Aboriculture.

4948
04:08:04,440 --> 04:08:10,420
It would also provide a more robust code that would expand

4949
04:08:10,420 --> 04:08:16,409
and protect tree canopy and help to build the city's green

4950
04:08:16,409 --> 04:08:22,790
infrastructure network as identified in the comprehensive

4951
04:08:22,790 --> 04:08:23,440
plan.

4952
04:08:23,440 --> 04:08:28,549
As part of this effort, staff identified the following key

4953
04:08:28,549 --> 04:08:30,440
tasks and milestones.

4954
04:08:30,440 --> 04:08:33,750
You see on the slide that the City Council gave us the

4955
04:08:33,750 --> 04:08:37,440
green light to proceed in the fall of 2014.

4956
04:08:37,440 --> 04:08:40,909
We've conducted our research and benchmark analysis, which

4957
04:08:40,909 --> 04:08:43,440
we completed in the fall of 2015.

4958
04:08:43,440 --> 04:08:48,110
We also wrapped up city staff work sessions with the other

4959
04:08:48,110 --> 04:08:53,139
departments, although that coordination does remain ongoing

4960
04:08:53,139 --> 04:08:53,440
.

4961
04:08:53,440 --> 04:08:58,559
We held several external stakeholder meetings that included

4962
04:08:58,559 --> 04:09:03,260
talks with the DEN Community Developers Alliance and the

4963
04:09:03,260 --> 04:09:06,440
Keep DEN Beautiful organization.

4964
04:09:06,440 --> 04:09:11,540
And if you remember, in December of last year, we provided

4965
04:09:11,540 --> 04:09:16,530
a briefing to the PNZ that gave you an overview of the core

4966
04:09:16,530 --> 04:09:21,049
components of what we were proposing to change in the

4967
04:09:21,049 --> 04:09:22,440
ordinance.

4968
04:09:22,440 --> 04:09:27,770
And finally, at the beginning of this year, we conducted a

4969
04:09:27,770 --> 04:09:32,889
visual preference survey of the community to gauge the

4970
04:09:32,889 --> 04:09:37,440
public interest in trees in the public realm.

4971
04:09:37,440 --> 04:09:43,500
We received about 1,200 responses to that survey, and most

4972
04:09:43,500 --> 04:09:45,440
of it was positive.

4973
04:09:45,440 --> 04:09:50,770
There was a huge interest in, if I can summarize, in seeing

4974
04:09:50,770 --> 04:09:58,770
trees in the public spaces, but having them organized and

4975
04:09:58,770 --> 04:10:02,440
well maintained.

4976
04:10:02,440 --> 04:10:06,450
So I'll get into the proposed recommendations in a second,

4977
04:10:06,450 --> 04:10:11,440
but I wanted to review our benchmark city analysis

4978
04:10:11,440 --> 04:10:14,860
because it served as a basis for the recommendations that

4979
04:10:14,860 --> 04:10:17,440
we're bringing forward to you tonight.

4980
04:10:17,440 --> 04:10:20,440
We looked at 10 cities around the state.

4981
04:10:20,440 --> 04:10:24,100
Most of them have similar population sizes and projected

4982
04:10:24,100 --> 04:10:26,440
growth rates to the city of Denton.

4983
04:10:26,440 --> 04:10:31,209
We chose these cities because they have well constructed

4984
04:10:31,209 --> 04:10:36,170
and effective tree preservation ordinances and practices

4985
04:10:36,170 --> 04:10:40,659
that we could benefit from as we update the city's tree

4986
04:10:40,659 --> 04:10:41,440
code.

4987
04:10:41,440 --> 04:10:46,059
So we focused our research on five areas, established tree

4988
04:10:46,059 --> 04:10:50,409
designations, which are the tree species that will be

4989
04:10:50,409 --> 04:10:52,440
subject to the ordinance,

4990
04:10:52,440 --> 04:10:56,370
minimum preservation percentages, which is the percentage

4991
04:10:56,370 --> 04:10:59,899
of existing trees on a site that would need to be retained

4992
04:10:59,899 --> 04:11:01,440
during development,

4993
04:11:01,440 --> 04:11:06,299
tree mitigation ratios, which get applied when the minimum

4994
04:11:06,299 --> 04:11:09,440
preservation percentages are not met,

4995
04:11:09,440 --> 04:11:14,010
and then tree fund payments that are collected when it's

4996
04:11:14,010 --> 04:11:18,760
determined that mitigation by planting of trees on a site

4997
04:11:18,760 --> 04:11:21,440
is not feasible or desirable.

4998
04:11:21,440 --> 04:11:26,459
And then finally, we looked at preservation incentives,

4999
04:11:26,459 --> 04:11:33,090
which are intended to encourage the developers to go above

5000
04:11:33,090 --> 04:11:38,440
the minimum requirements.

5001
04:11:38,440 --> 04:11:42,260
So what we found in our analysis is that Denton's tree and

5002
04:11:42,260 --> 04:11:45,920
landscape code is one of the most complex of the cities

5003
04:11:45,920 --> 04:11:47,440
that we looked at.

5004
04:11:47,440 --> 04:11:51,549
We identified seven tree designations compared to an

5005
04:11:51,549 --> 04:11:54,440
average of three for the other cities.

5006
04:11:54,440 --> 04:11:58,680
And our 39 options for preservation is significantly more

5007
04:11:58,680 --> 04:12:01,440
than what we've seen around the state.

5008
04:12:01,440 --> 04:12:04,819
And we also noticed that we're trailing in preservation and

5009
04:12:04,819 --> 04:12:06,440
mitigation standards.

5010
04:12:06,440 --> 04:12:10,450
We have the lowest minimum tree preservation requirements,

5011
04:12:10,450 --> 04:12:14,739
no requirement or incentive to save large trees or anything

5012
04:12:14,739 --> 04:12:16,440
over 18 inches.

5013
04:12:16,440 --> 04:12:22,909
And then we have the lowest mitigation rates for tree

5014
04:12:22,909 --> 04:12:24,440
removal.

5015
04:12:24,440 --> 04:12:28,790
In your backup, I provided a table that summarizes our

5016
04:12:28,790 --> 04:12:33,440
proposed revisions and is organized into proposed changes

5017
04:12:33,440 --> 04:12:39,440
to the procedures, the standards, and the requirements.

5018
04:12:39,440 --> 04:12:43,239
Under the procedures and standards section, you'll find

5019
04:12:43,239 --> 04:12:47,440
that we're proposing to align city definitions and terms

5020
04:12:47,440 --> 04:12:51,180
with those of the industry, as we noted earlier, the ANSI

5021
04:12:51,180 --> 04:12:54,440
standards and the ISA standards.

5022
04:12:54,440 --> 04:12:58,280
We're also proposing to reduce the number of tree design

5023
04:12:58,280 --> 04:13:00,440
ations from seven to three.

5024
04:13:00,440 --> 04:13:05,059
So now you'll have heritage trees, protected trees, and

5025
04:13:05,059 --> 04:13:06,440
canopy trees.

5026
04:13:06,440 --> 04:13:10,790
The heritage trees are any healthy tree that's over 18

5027
04:13:10,790 --> 04:13:14,440
inches and designated by the urban forester.

5028
04:13:14,440 --> 04:13:18,489
The protected trees are any healthy trees that are under

5029
04:13:18,489 --> 04:13:22,440
over 18 inches and not designated as heritage.

5030
04:13:22,440 --> 04:13:26,659
And the canopy would capture everything unhealthy that's

5031
04:13:26,659 --> 04:13:28,440
under 18 inches.

5032
04:13:28,440 --> 04:13:33,579
And we're also proposing to establish an exempt trees list,

5033
04:13:33,579 --> 04:13:37,440
and these can be removed without penalty.

5034
04:13:37,440 --> 04:13:42,100
And these trees are the ones that in the current code you

5035
04:13:42,100 --> 04:13:45,440
find under the secondary tree list.

5036
04:13:45,440 --> 04:13:49,920
So we would incorporate those as well as some additions

5037
04:13:49,920 --> 04:13:54,440
that our forest or urban forester is recommending.

5038
04:13:54,440 --> 04:13:58,209
We also are proposing to reduce the number of exempt

5039
04:13:58,209 --> 04:14:00,440
properties and projects.

5040
04:14:00,440 --> 04:14:04,649
If you look at the summary table that's included in your

5041
04:14:04,649 --> 04:14:09,440
backup, you'll notice that we go from about 15 exemptions.

5042
04:14:09,440 --> 04:14:11,440
We basically cut that number in half.

5043
04:14:11,440 --> 04:14:16,440
And a lot of those have to deal with the city.

5044
04:14:16,440 --> 04:14:20,440
You'll notice that there are city projects.

5045
04:14:20,440 --> 04:14:25,270
And the thought behind that was that as a city we want to

5046
04:14:25,270 --> 04:14:28,440
be an example for development.

5047
04:14:28,440 --> 04:14:31,670
We want to be able to have those opportunities with our

5048
04:14:31,670 --> 04:14:36,059
facilities to create a sense of place and to frame our

5049
04:14:36,059 --> 04:14:36,440
streets.

5050
04:14:36,440 --> 04:14:41,540
And so those street reconstruction projects, the subst

5051
04:14:41,540 --> 04:14:47,440
ations, those are opportunities for us to sort of make,

5052
04:14:47,440 --> 04:14:51,440
to create a presence with trees and landscaping.

5053
04:14:51,440 --> 04:15:01,690
Under the requirements section, we're also proposing to

5054
04:15:01,690 --> 04:15:04,440
remove tree removal permits.

5055
04:15:04,440 --> 04:15:08,750
We're proposing to require tree removal permits for all

5056
04:15:08,750 --> 04:15:12,440
sites, including residential.

5057
04:15:12,440 --> 04:15:17,459
However, the residential sites would only need to come in,

5058
04:15:17,459 --> 04:15:18,440
the residential owners, I should say,

5059
04:15:18,440 --> 04:15:22,530
would only need to come in to request a tree removal permit

5060
04:15:22,530 --> 04:15:25,440
for any tree that's over five inches.

5061
04:15:25,440 --> 04:15:29,409
And that would be a complementary permit that would give us

5062
04:15:29,409 --> 04:15:31,440
a chance to consult with them

5063
04:15:31,440 --> 04:15:35,389
and maybe give them a little bit of advice of how to

5064
04:15:35,389 --> 04:15:39,440
accomplish what they want to do in a different way.

5065
04:15:39,440 --> 04:15:42,440
Or more effectively.

5066
04:15:42,440 --> 04:15:46,569
We're also proposing to base the minimum preservation on

5067
04:15:46,569 --> 04:15:52,440
the existing tree canopy instead of DBH inches.

5068
04:15:52,440 --> 04:15:56,280
And to establish a flat mitigation ratio for tree removal

5069
04:15:56,280 --> 04:15:57,440
of one to four.

5070
04:15:57,440 --> 04:16:03,479
Currently our code, the range is from zero percent to one

5071
04:16:03,479 --> 04:16:08,440
point, I think, 1.25.

5072
04:16:08,440 --> 04:16:11,829
And then finally under the requirements, we are proposing

5073
04:16:11,829 --> 04:16:14,440
to base the tree fund payments

5074
04:16:14,440 --> 04:16:19,239
on fair market value of materials and labor at the time of

5075
04:16:19,239 --> 04:16:20,440
planting.

5076
04:16:20,440 --> 04:16:22,440
And we ran the numbers on that.

5077
04:16:22,440 --> 04:16:26,450
And currently, if we were to make a recommendation today,

5078
04:16:26,450 --> 04:16:36,440
that number would be about $175 per inch.

5079
04:16:36,440 --> 04:16:40,760
Under preservation incentives, we are proposing to allow

5080
04:16:40,760 --> 04:16:45,440
tree canopy to count towards landscape canopy requirements.

5081
04:16:45,440 --> 04:16:49,180
We want to offer a one to two credit for preserving

5082
04:16:49,180 --> 04:16:53,360
heritage trees that would also count toward the landscape

5083
04:16:53,360 --> 04:16:54,440
requirement.

5084
04:16:54,440 --> 04:16:58,639
And then we want to keep the existing allowance for

5085
04:16:58,639 --> 04:17:01,440
modification of parking lot design

5086
04:17:01,440 --> 04:17:08,690
and subdivision design when trees are preserved above the

5087
04:17:08,690 --> 04:17:11,440
minimum required.

5088
04:17:11,440 --> 04:17:14,950
And again, staff compared this proposal with our city's

5089
04:17:14,950 --> 04:17:19,930
guidance documents, the comprehensive plan, the strategic

5090
04:17:19,930 --> 04:17:20,440
plan.

5091
04:17:20,440 --> 04:17:26,059
And we found as far as the comprehensive plan is concerned,

5092
04:17:26,059 --> 04:17:31,750
the proposed revision will support these goals that you see

5093
04:17:31,750 --> 04:17:33,440
on the screen.

5094
04:17:33,440 --> 04:17:37,200
And then for the strategic plan, we see that it supports

5095
04:17:37,200 --> 04:17:40,620
the key focus area of sustainable and environmental

5096
04:17:40,620 --> 04:17:41,440
stewardship.

5097
04:17:41,440 --> 04:17:45,600
And then the goal to manage land use and to preserve open

5098
04:17:45,600 --> 04:17:47,440
and natural spaces.

5099
04:17:47,440 --> 04:17:50,799
And with that, I'm going to conclude my presentation and

5100
04:17:50,799 --> 04:17:52,440
open it up for questions.

5101
04:17:52,440 --> 04:17:54,440
>> Commissioner Rossell.

5102
04:17:54,440 --> 04:17:55,440
>> Thank you, Chair.

5103
04:17:55,440 --> 04:17:58,350
I was reading through the draft language and I had a couple

5104
04:17:58,350 --> 04:18:01,329
questions that maybe you can help clarify or maybe provide

5105
04:18:01,329 --> 04:18:02,440
some insight to.

5106
04:18:02,440 --> 04:18:03,440
>> Okay.

5107
04:18:03,440 --> 04:18:06,600
>> Under exemptions, it says any development or capital

5108
04:18:06,600 --> 04:18:10,440
improvement project awarded prior to November of 2004.

5109
04:18:10,440 --> 04:18:12,920
Just for my edification, do we have a lot of outstanding

5110
04:18:12,920 --> 04:18:15,459
projects that are sitting on like a bunch of treed lands

5111
04:18:15,459 --> 04:18:16,440
that won't be subject to this?

5112
04:18:16,440 --> 04:18:21,700
Do we know how many 12-year-old projects are just

5113
04:18:21,700 --> 04:18:23,440
outstanding?

5114
04:18:23,440 --> 04:18:26,440
>> I don't have a specific list, but there are a few.

5115
04:18:26,440 --> 04:18:29,670
And so this was a provision in the existing code, and we

5116
04:18:29,670 --> 04:18:32,979
didn't want to take that away because we didn't know what

5117
04:18:32,979 --> 04:18:35,440
the status of those projects are to date.

5118
04:18:35,440 --> 04:18:36,440
>> Sure.

5119
04:18:36,440 --> 04:18:40,440
So the next question, I have two more.

5120
04:18:40,440 --> 04:18:43,200
It says the removal of heritage trees, protected trees, or

5121
04:18:43,200 --> 04:18:45,940
canopies, no person directly or indirectly should cut that

5122
04:18:45,940 --> 04:18:46,440
down.

5123
04:18:46,440 --> 04:18:49,799
And then later on for enforcement, it says a person shall

5124
04:18:49,799 --> 04:18:52,440
be guilty of a misdemeanor for violation.

5125
04:18:52,440 --> 04:18:55,360
Is the consequence the same for a canopy tree as it is a

5126
04:18:55,360 --> 04:18:56,440
heritage tree?

5127
04:18:56,440 --> 04:19:00,440
The punishment from the city, they see those equal?

5128
04:19:00,440 --> 04:19:02,440
>> Yes, under the enforcement.

5129
04:19:02,440 --> 04:19:04,440
In terms of violation, yes.

5130
04:19:04,440 --> 04:19:05,440
>> Okay.

5131
04:19:05,440 --> 04:19:06,440
Thank you.

5132
04:19:06,440 --> 04:19:09,719
And then the last question that I might need a little help

5133
04:19:09,719 --> 04:19:14,440
with here, and the mitigation says up to 50% of heritage

5134
04:19:14,440 --> 04:19:17,069
trees, protected trees, and canopy trees required to be

5135
04:19:17,069 --> 04:19:22,440
preserved may be removed and mitigated at 1 to 4 ratio.

5136
04:19:22,440 --> 04:19:26,440
What happens if they go over 50%?

5137
04:19:26,440 --> 04:19:27,440
I'm not sure.

5138
04:19:27,440 --> 04:19:29,440
Can you help me understand that language?

5139
04:19:29,440 --> 04:19:30,440
>> Yes.

5140
04:19:30,440 --> 04:19:33,569
And actually, I'm going to ask Haywood Morgan, our forester

5141
04:19:33,569 --> 04:19:34,440
, to come up.

5142
04:19:34,440 --> 04:19:36,440
>> Okay.

5143
04:19:36,440 --> 04:19:46,440
Thanks.

5144
04:19:46,440 --> 04:19:50,229
>> So when you're looking at mitigation, the current code

5145
04:19:50,229 --> 04:19:53,940
and the proposed code sets a threshold for what you have to

5146
04:19:53,940 --> 04:19:55,440
preserve on site.

5147
04:19:55,440 --> 04:19:56,440
>> Right.

5148
04:19:56,440 --> 04:20:00,100
With the current code as what we're proposing with the

5149
04:20:00,100 --> 04:20:04,030
existing code, you're allowed to remove up to half of what

5150
04:20:04,030 --> 04:20:07,440
the preservation amount is and mitigate for it.

5151
04:20:07,440 --> 04:20:11,590
You're not allowed to dip below that threshold of 50% of

5152
04:20:11,590 --> 04:20:13,440
what you're required.

5153
04:20:13,440 --> 04:20:18,239
So just using the plain example current code, if you're

5154
04:20:18,239 --> 04:20:23,549
required to preserve 100 inches of trees, you would be

5155
04:20:23,549 --> 04:20:28,639
allowed under the code to remove 50 of those inches and

5156
04:20:28,639 --> 04:20:31,440
mitigate through either replanting on the site or payment

5157
04:20:31,440 --> 04:20:33,440
into the city's tree fund.

5158
04:20:33,440 --> 04:20:36,129
>> And if I was trying to remove 60 trees in that example,

5159
04:20:36,129 --> 04:20:37,440
I would just get denied?

5160
04:20:37,440 --> 04:20:38,440
>> Correct.

5161
04:20:38,440 --> 04:20:39,440
>> Okay.

5162
04:20:39,440 --> 04:20:45,440
>> I have just a single question.

5163
04:20:45,440 --> 04:20:49,299
I guess one thing, just for my clarification, that we're

5164
04:20:49,299 --> 04:20:52,809
moving away from the old tree code to the new is we did a

5165
04:20:52,809 --> 04:20:56,549
lot of conversation was about caliper inches in the old

5166
04:20:56,549 --> 04:20:57,440
tree code.

5167
04:20:57,440 --> 04:21:00,440
And it seems to be now we're talking about canopy.

5168
04:21:00,440 --> 04:21:04,149
Is that a major shift that we're doing as a city to move

5169
04:21:04,149 --> 04:21:06,440
away from caliper to canopy?

5170
04:21:06,440 --> 04:21:09,440
>> Yes.

5171
04:21:09,440 --> 04:21:10,440
>> Address that.

5172
04:21:10,440 --> 04:21:12,440
>> That provides more flexibility.

5173
04:21:12,440 --> 04:21:13,440
It gives you better opportunity.

5174
04:21:13,440 --> 04:21:16,059
We're also not, you know, we're using canopy cover,

5175
04:21:16,059 --> 04:21:18,670
existing canopy cover to go towards your landscaping

5176
04:21:18,670 --> 04:21:21,440
requirements as it relates to your canopy cover.

5177
04:21:21,440 --> 04:21:24,559
So in our opinion, it's a more sensible way of addressing

5178
04:21:24,559 --> 04:21:27,610
what the ultimate goal was anyway that was referenced in

5179
04:21:27,610 --> 04:21:30,659
the original tree code and what we're proposing today is

5180
04:21:30,659 --> 04:21:32,440
enhance our canopy cover.

5181
04:21:32,440 --> 04:21:35,780
>> Yeah, in addition, when you look at the benefits that we

5182
04:21:35,780 --> 04:21:39,440
derive from trees, everything relates back to the canopy.

5183
04:21:39,440 --> 04:21:40,440
>> Correct.

5184
04:21:40,440 --> 04:21:43,440
>> Diameter inches can be very misleading.

5185
04:21:43,440 --> 04:21:47,969
You can have a tree that has a larger DBH or diameter, but

5186
04:21:47,969 --> 04:21:52,440
actually have a smaller canopy than a smaller tree.

5187
04:21:52,440 --> 04:21:55,840
So, you know, while we're putting that premium on the size,

5188
04:21:55,840 --> 04:21:59,229
well, in actuality that tree, because the canopy is smaller

5189
04:21:59,229 --> 04:22:02,239
, is not really providing the same benefit as a smaller

5190
04:22:02,239 --> 04:22:03,440
diameter tree.

5191
04:22:03,440 --> 04:22:10,100
So industry wide, whenever benefits are quantified, it's

5192
04:22:10,100 --> 04:22:13,440
always based on the canopy.

5193
04:22:13,440 --> 04:22:17,370
>> So for us as a commission going forward, assuming as we

5194
04:22:17,370 --> 04:22:21,479
work through this update on the tree code, when things come

5195
04:22:21,479 --> 04:22:23,440
before us, like for example, the item just before us with

5196
04:22:23,440 --> 04:22:23,440
the ESA,

5197
04:22:23,440 --> 04:22:26,649
and we had a lot of discussion between ourselves about

5198
04:22:26,649 --> 04:22:31,030
caliber inches and canopy, we should be starting to look at

5199
04:22:31,030 --> 04:22:34,219
what the canopy ultimately is going to be as these projects

5200
04:22:34,219 --> 04:22:35,440
come forward.

5201
04:22:35,440 --> 04:22:38,469
So that's how we're going to be, or from the city's point

5202
04:22:38,469 --> 04:22:41,709
of view, which we represent, to look at canopy rather than

5203
04:22:41,709 --> 04:22:45,440
caliber inches as all of these projects come before us,

5204
04:22:45,440 --> 04:22:47,950
is to look at that particular criteria now as the more

5205
04:22:47,950 --> 04:22:50,809
important factor for us ultimately rather than the caliber

5206
04:22:50,809 --> 04:22:51,440
inches.

5207
04:22:51,440 --> 04:22:52,440
>> Correct.

5208
04:22:52,440 --> 04:22:53,440
>> Okay.

5209
04:22:53,440 --> 04:22:57,520
Thank you for the clarification on the shift that we're now

5210
04:22:57,520 --> 04:22:59,440
making in our tree code.

5211
04:22:59,440 --> 04:23:00,440
Commissioner Rozelle.

5212
04:23:00,440 --> 04:23:04,370
>> I have one more, Heywood, if I could, kind of piggyback

5213
04:23:04,370 --> 04:23:08,440
ing off the idea of moving from caliber inches to canopy,

5214
04:23:08,440 --> 04:23:11,069
can you walk me through the rationale that the heritage

5215
04:23:11,069 --> 04:23:12,979
tree, the protected tree, are still defined by caliber

5216
04:23:12,979 --> 04:23:13,440
inches?

5217
04:23:13,440 --> 04:23:17,840
Why are we not defining a heritage tree by its canopy size,

5218
04:23:17,840 --> 04:23:21,440
but remaining that one to be caliber inches?

5219
04:23:21,440 --> 04:23:27,430
>> Well, the designation of heritage and protected being 18

5220
04:23:27,430 --> 04:23:32,440
inches and large was to give us an easier way to go out and

5221
04:23:32,440 --> 04:23:35,440
actually identify those trees.

5222
04:23:35,440 --> 04:23:39,780
In many instances, if you go on a site that's a fully tree

5223
04:23:39,780 --> 04:23:43,530
site, it's kind of hard to distinguish the extent of the

5224
04:23:43,530 --> 04:23:48,440
canopy without spending an extra amount of time.

5225
04:23:48,440 --> 04:23:52,659
So by just doing the 18 inches and larger, it'll allow a

5226
04:23:52,659 --> 04:23:56,469
professional to go out on site and pretty much eyeball

5227
04:23:56,469 --> 04:24:00,440
which trees are going to fall within that category.

5228
04:24:00,440 --> 04:24:01,440
>> Okay.

5229
04:24:01,440 --> 04:24:03,440
Thank you.

5230
04:24:03,440 --> 04:24:09,440
>> At this time, I see no other questions for staff.

5231
04:24:09,440 --> 04:24:10,440
Okay.

5232
04:24:10,440 --> 04:24:15,809
This is a public hearing, and I have at this time I have

5233
04:24:15,809 --> 04:24:19,440
three cards requesting to speak.

5234
04:24:19,440 --> 04:24:23,809
So as I will call our first speaker will be Lee Allison

5235
04:24:23,809 --> 04:24:26,440
followed by Larry Reichart.

5236
04:24:26,440 --> 04:24:30,209
Each of you will have four minutes to speak and if you will

5237
04:24:30,209 --> 04:24:34,440
give your name and address when you come to the microphone.

5238
04:24:34,440 --> 04:24:35,440
>> Good evening.

5239
04:24:35,440 --> 04:24:38,930
I'm Larry Reichart from Allison with Allison engineering

5240
04:24:38,930 --> 04:24:42,440
group, 4401 north 35, Denton, Texas.

5241
04:24:42,440 --> 04:24:46,229
I'm actually here tonight representing the Denton Community

5242
04:24:46,229 --> 04:24:50,059
Development Alliance, better known as often known as the DC

5243
04:24:50,059 --> 04:24:50,440
DA.

5244
04:24:50,440 --> 04:24:54,110
I'm not an indicated opposition, but I'd like to say that

5245
04:24:54,110 --> 04:24:57,319
we have been the last few years trying to develop and I

5246
04:24:57,319 --> 04:25:00,639
believe successfully developing a good working and

5247
04:25:00,639 --> 04:25:04,479
improving and growing working relationship with the city of

5248
04:25:04,479 --> 04:25:05,440
Denton.

5249
04:25:05,440 --> 04:25:06,440
A number of meetings.

5250
04:25:06,440 --> 04:25:10,290
Shondrian actually called and asked if they could have a

5251
04:25:10,290 --> 04:25:14,079
meeting with the DCDA regarding this and came and gave a

5252
04:25:14,079 --> 04:25:15,440
presentation.

5253
04:25:15,440 --> 04:25:18,530
At that time, we felt like the staff was headed in right

5254
04:25:18,530 --> 04:25:19,440
direction.

5255
04:25:19,440 --> 04:25:23,440
We agreed generally with the way they were pursuing.

5256
04:25:23,440 --> 04:25:25,750
I guess we didn't communicate well, but we had hoped after

5257
04:25:25,750 --> 04:25:28,200
they got feedback from us as they developed recommendations

5258
04:25:28,200 --> 04:25:32,420
, they would come back to us in a workshop so we could have

5259
04:25:32,420 --> 04:25:36,479
an opportunity as our particular group that is involved

5260
04:25:36,479 --> 04:25:40,440
with implementing these codes.

5261
04:25:40,440 --> 04:25:43,590
You know, adhering to them, abiding by them, even living

5262
04:25:43,590 --> 04:25:46,639
with them as consultants, as developers, as property

5263
04:25:46,639 --> 04:25:47,440
managers.

5264
04:25:47,440 --> 04:25:50,909
And unfortunately, we haven't had that opportunity, I think

5265
04:25:50,909 --> 04:25:54,440
due to maybe some misunderstandings or miscommunications.

5266
04:25:54,440 --> 04:25:57,809
And we're asking tonight that the commission postpone

5267
04:25:57,809 --> 04:26:01,239
taking any action until we've had an opportunity to have

5268
04:26:01,239 --> 04:26:04,670
such a workshop and we can present a responsible opinion

5269
04:26:04,670 --> 04:26:05,440
paper.

5270
04:26:05,440 --> 04:26:08,520
I'd be a liar if I said that we didn't want to dictate to

5271
04:26:08,520 --> 04:26:11,340
the city how to write the code, but we know that's not

5272
04:26:11,340 --> 04:26:13,809
practical and there's other interest groups with genuine

5273
04:26:13,809 --> 04:26:14,440
interest.

5274
04:26:14,440 --> 04:26:17,520
But we would like an opportunity to understand it, ask the

5275
04:26:17,520 --> 04:26:20,739
kind of questions you've been asking this evening, and then

5276
04:26:20,739 --> 04:26:22,440
to write a position paper.

5277
04:26:22,440 --> 04:26:25,530
Maybe in doing so, we might help enlighten the staff on

5278
04:26:25,530 --> 04:26:28,770
some other issues that they might want to bring back to you

5279
04:26:28,770 --> 04:26:31,440
with a different perspective or light.

5280
04:26:31,440 --> 04:26:35,629
And then maybe we may not change anything, but if anything,

5281
04:26:35,629 --> 04:26:37,440
we could -- pardon me.

5282
04:26:37,440 --> 04:26:39,440
I appreciate you indulging this nagging cough.

5283
04:26:39,440 --> 04:26:42,500
It's been annoying to me and I'm sure it is to everyone

5284
04:26:42,500 --> 04:26:43,440
else as well.

5285
04:26:43,440 --> 04:26:45,440
But we'd like the opportunity to do that.

5286
04:26:45,440 --> 04:26:49,440
Shondrin did rescind us the staff report last week.

5287
04:26:49,440 --> 04:26:51,440
I was away on vacation.

5288
04:26:51,440 --> 04:26:54,120
I made the assumption it was going to be another workshop

5289
04:26:54,120 --> 04:26:56,440
with the commission, not a public hearing.

5290
04:26:56,440 --> 04:26:59,440
Didn't get out to our group in a timely manner.

5291
04:26:59,440 --> 04:27:02,450
We will be followed or I will be followed by two other

5292
04:27:02,450 --> 04:27:05,440
speakers who will address some of the issues we've

5293
04:27:05,440 --> 04:27:08,440
concerned about but don't necessarily well educated on.

5294
04:27:08,440 --> 04:27:11,000
We hadn't even had a chance to get together and talk about

5295
04:27:11,000 --> 04:27:11,440
them.

5296
04:27:11,440 --> 04:27:14,440
You should have a number of cards up there also.

5297
04:27:14,440 --> 04:27:15,440
I apologize.

5298
04:27:15,440 --> 04:27:18,719
They should be white and not blue, but from DCDA members

5299
04:27:18,719 --> 04:27:20,440
indicating opposition.

5300
04:27:20,440 --> 04:27:22,920
And the main reason is we just want an opportunity to

5301
04:27:22,920 --> 04:27:25,520
better understand this code and give some input and

5302
04:27:25,520 --> 04:27:28,440
response and thoughts back to the staff and the commission

5303
04:27:28,440 --> 04:27:30,440
and hopefully the city council.

5304
04:27:30,440 --> 04:27:31,440
So we appreciate that.

5305
04:27:31,440 --> 04:27:33,440
Thank you for the opportunity.

5306
04:27:33,440 --> 04:27:34,440
I have one question for you.

5307
04:27:34,440 --> 04:27:35,440
Sure.

5308
04:27:35,440 --> 04:27:37,440
You mentioned you'd like to see this postponed.

5309
04:27:37,440 --> 04:27:40,850
Do you have a time frame if the commission would entertain

5310
04:27:40,850 --> 04:27:43,969
that that you would think is reasonable to give you an

5311
04:27:43,969 --> 04:27:47,309
opportunity to review this and hash out whatever issues

5312
04:27:47,309 --> 04:27:53,440
there may be between yourselves and your association staff?

5313
04:27:53,440 --> 04:27:55,440
I would think at least a month.

5314
04:27:55,440 --> 04:27:57,729
And the reason I say that is because we need to time

5315
04:27:57,729 --> 04:28:00,440
schedule time when we can get our our group together.

5316
04:28:00,440 --> 04:28:03,329
It wouldn't be our full group, but a reasonable number of

5317
04:28:03,329 --> 04:28:06,219
representatives along with the staff and actually have a

5318
04:28:06,219 --> 04:28:08,979
meeting and maybe a two or three hour workshop to go over

5319
04:28:08,979 --> 04:28:11,440
this and understand it and see where we are.

5320
04:28:11,440 --> 04:28:14,979
And then I think once we have that workshop, then I feel

5321
04:28:14,979 --> 04:28:18,149
like I could pledge that within a week to 10 days, we could

5322
04:28:18,149 --> 04:28:19,440
come up with a paper.

5323
04:28:19,440 --> 04:28:21,440
And if we don't have something by then, we don't have it.

5324
04:28:21,440 --> 04:28:23,440
And that's our fault.

5325
04:28:23,440 --> 04:28:27,780
Well, I know that this item, I think it's been 2000, I

5326
04:28:27,780 --> 04:28:31,360
think it's four since the last time that this has been

5327
04:28:31,360 --> 04:28:32,440
addressed.

5328
04:28:32,440 --> 04:28:35,049
So we're kind of 11 years so far to get it addressed and

5329
04:28:35,049 --> 04:28:36,440
understand your concern.

5330
04:28:36,440 --> 04:28:38,440
I want to make sure it's correct.

5331
04:28:38,440 --> 04:28:41,440
Would 45 or 60 days give you time, you think?

5332
04:28:41,440 --> 04:28:42,440
I would say yes.

5333
04:28:42,440 --> 04:28:45,270
And I feel like our relationship with the staff is such

5334
04:28:45,270 --> 04:28:48,100
that they would work with us so we can be quickly and get

5335
04:28:48,100 --> 04:28:49,440
this taken care of.

5336
04:28:49,440 --> 04:28:50,440
Pardon me.

5337
04:28:50,440 --> 04:28:51,440
Great.

5338
04:28:51,440 --> 04:28:54,440
Pardon me.

5339
04:28:54,440 --> 04:28:56,440
Commissioner Dadovitz.

5340
04:28:56,440 --> 04:28:59,440
Could you state the association again?

5341
04:28:59,440 --> 04:29:09,440
Denton Community Development Alliance.

5342
04:29:09,440 --> 04:29:13,159
Been around for about three years and may be effective for

5343
04:29:13,159 --> 04:29:16,440
30 minutes now, but we're getting there.

5344
04:29:16,440 --> 04:29:17,440
One more question so far.

5345
04:29:17,440 --> 04:29:18,440
Commissioner Beck.

5346
04:29:18,440 --> 04:29:19,440
Thank you, Chair.

5347
04:29:19,440 --> 04:29:22,139
And you mentioned that a couple of other people follow

5348
04:29:22,139 --> 04:29:25,280
behind you and probably give us some reasons why you might

5349
04:29:25,280 --> 04:29:26,440
object to this.

5350
04:29:26,440 --> 04:29:29,819
But just top of your head, what would probably be the

5351
04:29:29,819 --> 04:29:32,440
biggest thing that you've seen here?

5352
04:29:32,440 --> 04:29:37,180
From my perspective, I know right now when we do due

5353
04:29:37,180 --> 04:29:43,440
diligence for other developers, vacant land gets a pro.

5354
04:29:43,440 --> 04:29:45,440
Trees gets a con.

5355
04:29:45,440 --> 04:29:49,360
If I can find trees in the right location, three dimension

5356
04:29:49,360 --> 04:29:51,440
ally, that's a super plus.

5357
04:29:51,440 --> 04:29:53,440
But that's hard to do.

5358
04:29:53,440 --> 04:29:59,030
And trees, unfortunately, can limit the marketability of a

5359
04:29:59,030 --> 04:30:04,440
particular site just because of where they're located.

5360
04:30:04,440 --> 04:30:08,700
And by the time we have to mitigate trees that are in

5361
04:30:08,700 --> 04:30:13,139
proposed street right aways, if we have to deal with all

5362
04:30:13,139 --> 04:30:14,440
the grading and the detention ponds,

5363
04:30:14,440 --> 04:30:17,850
and the four to one slopes, and not be able to have multi-

5364
04:30:17,850 --> 04:30:20,760
users, there's more to this site development part than just

5365
04:30:20,760 --> 04:30:21,440
the trees.

5366
04:30:21,440 --> 04:30:24,709
But by the time we meet everybody's requirements,

5367
04:30:24,709 --> 04:30:27,950
particularly in a lot of what I do is in sites that I'm

5368
04:30:27,950 --> 04:30:30,440
going to say are five acres or less.

5369
04:30:30,440 --> 04:30:33,440
Give me 100 acres, I can do a lot with trees.

5370
04:30:33,440 --> 04:30:37,950
Give me five acres or less, and it's very problematic what

5371
04:30:37,950 --> 04:30:41,840
you can do to design around them and still have a market

5372
04:30:41,840 --> 04:30:43,440
able site at the price that landowner wants for a site.

5373
04:30:43,440 --> 04:30:45,440
That landowner wants for that piece of property.

5374
04:30:45,440 --> 04:30:47,440
But you're not opposed to trees.

5375
04:30:47,440 --> 04:30:51,540
I mean, would you agree that trees actually enhance the

5376
04:30:51,540 --> 04:30:53,440
value of property too?

5377
04:30:53,440 --> 04:30:55,440
You'd have to ask a developer then.

5378
04:30:55,440 --> 04:30:58,440
Yes, if I can, again, if I can have the trees in the right

5379
04:30:58,440 --> 04:31:01,430
location, three dimensionally, they greatly enhance the

5380
04:31:01,430 --> 04:31:02,440
value of the property.

5381
04:31:02,440 --> 04:31:05,389
But when I have to pay more to mitigate a tree than what

5382
04:31:05,389 --> 04:31:08,629
the price of the land is per acre, that's a deterrent to

5383
04:31:08,629 --> 04:31:11,440
the value of that property and to development.

5384
04:31:11,440 --> 04:31:15,409
And those are just economic conditions that land developers

5385
04:31:15,409 --> 04:31:18,700
have to consider when they're deciding what to do with a

5386
04:31:18,700 --> 04:31:20,440
particular piece of property.

5387
04:31:20,440 --> 04:31:24,260
Particularly older property that's in the city that's

5388
04:31:24,260 --> 04:31:28,360
already geometrically set, particularly those that are

5389
04:31:28,360 --> 04:31:31,440
already planted, makes it difficult.

5390
04:31:31,440 --> 04:31:32,440
Okay.

5391
04:31:32,440 --> 04:31:33,440
Thank you, sir.

5392
04:31:33,440 --> 04:31:36,350
I'd like to speak to Commissioner Beck's question about

5393
04:31:36,350 --> 04:31:38,440
developers' perspective on trees.

5394
04:31:38,440 --> 04:31:41,440
I think trees add great value to projects.

5395
04:31:41,440 --> 04:31:45,290
And I know probably some of the engineers here will speak

5396
04:31:45,290 --> 04:31:49,110
that there's, I know, at least one tree in Denton in the

5397
04:31:49,110 --> 04:31:52,440
middle of the street on Holland Park Circle.

5398
04:31:52,440 --> 04:31:54,440
There's a reason why.

5399
04:31:54,440 --> 04:31:56,440
And those things are hard to get done.

5400
04:31:56,440 --> 04:31:59,530
And there's another one over on Tremont Circle that had to

5401
04:31:59,530 --> 04:32:02,440
be a private street in this city to be able to have the

5402
04:32:02,440 --> 04:32:07,440
curve data be outside of city spec to save probably a 24

5403
04:32:07,440 --> 04:32:07,440
hour day.

5404
04:32:07,440 --> 04:32:09,440
Probably a 24 inch oak tree.

5405
04:32:09,440 --> 04:32:12,399
So not all developers want to just clear cut everything and

5406
04:32:12,399 --> 04:32:13,440
take it all away.

5407
04:32:13,440 --> 04:32:16,909
But there is a point where not only from site design

5408
04:32:16,909 --> 04:32:20,850
standpoint, but also where the trees are located on lots

5409
04:32:20,850 --> 04:32:24,440
that make it where it is impossible to save them.

5410
04:32:24,440 --> 04:32:30,690
Otherwise, they do add value and price appreciation to a

5411
04:32:30,690 --> 04:32:32,440
lot's value.

5412
04:32:32,440 --> 04:32:36,559
And so I would concur that I think it's a very important

5413
04:32:36,559 --> 04:32:40,659
thing for us to do and to do very well to preserve as many

5414
04:32:40,659 --> 04:32:42,440
trees as possible.

5415
04:32:42,440 --> 04:32:45,870
I do have a project in the ETJ, Denton's ETJ, where we went

5416
04:32:45,870 --> 04:32:49,020
to the county to get a variant so we could split the road

5417
04:32:49,020 --> 04:32:51,440
to have trees and an island in between.

5418
04:32:51,440 --> 04:32:55,290
And we got it approved, but it was a little bit of a battle

5419
04:32:55,290 --> 04:32:59,350
to save trees in that case because of roads and maintenance

5420
04:32:59,350 --> 04:33:01,440
and things of that nature.

5421
04:33:01,440 --> 04:33:06,439
Any other questions for Mr. Allison?

5422
04:33:06,439 --> 04:33:07,439
Thank you.

5423
04:33:07,439 --> 04:33:09,439
Thank you.

5424
04:33:09,439 --> 04:33:13,990
Next card is for Larry Reichart and he is speaking in

5425
04:33:13,990 --> 04:33:15,439
opposition.

5426
04:33:15,439 --> 04:33:18,439
Thank you. Larry Reichart, 2228 Jefferson Trail.

5427
04:33:18,439 --> 04:33:21,439
I also represent DCDA.

5428
04:33:21,439 --> 04:33:25,540
And to answer your question about trees, I was a practicing

5429
04:33:25,540 --> 04:33:28,439
landscape architect for over 30 years.

5430
04:33:28,439 --> 04:33:31,540
I don't do that now, so I've let my license expire so I can

5431
04:33:31,540 --> 04:33:34,439
't legally call myself a landscape architect.

5432
04:33:34,439 --> 04:33:40,439
But for me, a tree in the wrong place is a weed.

5433
04:33:40,439 --> 04:33:44,830
If it's in the wrong place, it's a weed and it needs to be

5434
04:33:44,830 --> 04:33:49,439
removed and then replaced with other plant material.

5435
04:33:49,439 --> 04:33:52,909
I mean, I love trees and they do give value if they're in

5436
04:33:52,909 --> 04:33:54,439
the right location.

5437
04:33:54,439 --> 04:33:57,840
And to go, I'm going to get in the weeds real quick, but to

5438
04:33:57,840 --> 04:34:00,439
answer that question a little further,

5439
04:34:00,439 --> 04:34:06,990
one of the concerns I have is the preservation requirements

5440
04:34:06,990 --> 04:34:07,439
.

5441
04:34:07,439 --> 04:34:12,439
And it's 20 to 40%.

5442
04:34:12,439 --> 04:34:15,880
If you have a site that, I have a one acre site and it's

5443
04:34:15,880 --> 04:34:22,439
covered by 20 to 40% trees, I use an example of 30%.

5444
04:34:22,439 --> 04:34:27,150
When I get done the mitigation, I have to preserve 60% of

5445
04:34:27,150 --> 04:34:28,439
those trees.

5446
04:34:28,439 --> 04:34:33,909
That's almost 20% of my site that I have to preserve and

5447
04:34:33,909 --> 04:34:35,439
not utilize.

5448
04:34:35,439 --> 04:34:39,209
So when I'm going to buy that property, now I'm paying 20%

5449
04:34:39,209 --> 04:34:42,439
less than I am for that property right next to it.

5450
04:34:42,439 --> 04:34:46,110
Or it's going to cost me more and it's going to cost the

5451
04:34:46,110 --> 04:34:50,439
new homeowner 20% more if I have to take those trees out.

5452
04:34:50,439 --> 04:34:53,990
So it depends on where they are, like Lee said, and they

5453
04:34:53,990 --> 04:34:55,439
can be a detriment.

5454
04:34:55,439 --> 04:34:58,439
Trees should be a positive for almost every site.

5455
04:34:58,439 --> 04:35:02,959
And one of the concerns I have is the amount of

5456
04:35:02,959 --> 04:35:07,439
preservation credit you give for trees.

5457
04:35:07,439 --> 04:35:10,439
The heritage tree gets a two for one credit.

5458
04:35:10,439 --> 04:35:13,439
And again, it's based on DVD and not canopy.

5459
04:35:13,439 --> 04:35:16,639
And I think that's a big problem with this code, going back

5460
04:35:16,639 --> 04:35:17,439
and forth.

5461
04:35:17,439 --> 04:35:20,439
If it's canopy, let's preserve canopy.

5462
04:35:20,439 --> 04:35:23,569
It's really easy to calculate canopy with the aerials we

5463
04:35:23,569 --> 04:35:24,439
have today.

5464
04:35:24,439 --> 04:35:29,959
But on the canopy tree and the protected trees, I only get

5465
04:35:29,959 --> 04:35:32,439
a one for one credit for preserving them.

5466
04:35:32,439 --> 04:35:34,439
Where's my incentive?

5467
04:35:34,439 --> 04:35:36,439
There is no incentive.

5468
04:35:36,439 --> 04:35:39,439
I saved a tree, I saved a tree.

5469
04:35:39,439 --> 04:35:43,619
If you really wanted to preserve existing canopy, give me

5470
04:35:43,619 --> 04:35:47,349
some real credit for that tree towards my landscape

5471
04:35:47,349 --> 04:35:48,439
requirements.

5472
04:35:48,439 --> 04:35:51,799
And now I'm saving that tree instead of planting four new

5473
04:35:51,799 --> 04:35:52,439
trees.

5474
04:35:52,439 --> 04:35:55,479
So that's something in this code I think needs to be

5475
04:35:55,479 --> 04:35:56,439
addressed.

5476
04:35:56,439 --> 04:35:59,299
One of the bigger concerns I have is that there's the

5477
04:35:59,299 --> 04:36:02,810
companion piece, the site design criteria manual that's

5478
04:36:02,810 --> 04:36:07,439
identified in this code throughout, isn't prepared yet.

5479
04:36:07,439 --> 04:36:10,439
We have no idea what that says.

5480
04:36:10,439 --> 04:36:14,759
The existing criteria manual has examples from the existing

5481
04:36:14,759 --> 04:36:15,439
code.

5482
04:36:15,439 --> 04:36:20,610
Are there going to be examples how to calculate the canopy

5483
04:36:20,610 --> 04:36:22,439
and everything?

5484
04:36:22,439 --> 04:36:26,750
You know, the canopy tree being 18 inches and below, if I

5485
04:36:26,750 --> 04:36:31,889
have a site filled with four inch trees, saplings, I have

5486
04:36:31,889 --> 04:36:34,439
to preserve those, theoretically.

5487
04:36:34,439 --> 04:36:37,080
I don't need a permit to cut them down, but now I have a

5488
04:36:37,080 --> 04:36:39,840
canopy on the property and I'm going to have to preserve

5489
04:36:39,840 --> 04:36:42,439
all those four inch trees.

5490
04:36:42,439 --> 04:36:43,439
Is that what we're saying?

5491
04:36:43,439 --> 04:36:44,439
That's what the code says.

5492
04:36:44,439 --> 04:36:46,439
I'm not sure if that's what we're saying.

5493
04:36:46,439 --> 04:36:51,220
In field development, if I have one tree on an infill land,

5494
04:36:51,220 --> 04:36:55,520
I have to preserve that tree no matter where it is or pay

5495
04:36:55,520 --> 04:36:57,439
into the tree fund.

5496
04:36:57,439 --> 04:37:01,299
If it's an 18 inch tree, I'm paying over $12,000 into the

5497
04:37:01,299 --> 04:37:03,439
tree fund to do infill development.

5498
04:37:03,439 --> 04:37:08,439
I've just lost any affordability on that lot.

5499
04:37:08,439 --> 04:37:11,500
It's not clear residential properties are exempt, but unde

5500
04:37:11,500 --> 04:37:13,439
veloped residential properties?

5501
04:37:13,439 --> 04:37:18,439
I don't know.

5502
04:37:18,439 --> 04:37:21,159
Commissioner Taylor brought up something about the tree

5503
04:37:21,159 --> 04:37:24,540
fund and one of the key things it was supposed to do with

5504
04:37:24,540 --> 04:37:29,439
the tree fund money was to purchase property and save huge

5505
04:37:29,439 --> 04:37:29,439
chunks.

5506
04:37:29,439 --> 04:37:32,700
We've got, what was it, $3 million or more into the tree

5507
04:37:32,700 --> 04:37:33,439
fund now.

5508
04:37:33,439 --> 04:37:35,439
So it's just planting trees.

5509
04:37:35,439 --> 04:37:39,000
We should be looking at purchasing properties that are

5510
04:37:39,000 --> 04:37:42,799
right for development and just letting them, preserving

5511
04:37:42,799 --> 04:37:43,439
them.

5512
04:37:43,439 --> 04:37:48,340
And that was in there as an option that was never taken

5513
04:37:48,340 --> 04:37:49,439
care of.

5514
04:37:49,439 --> 04:37:53,209
One of my big pet peeves is that in the presentation, it

5515
04:37:53,209 --> 04:37:56,439
was mentioned the city should lead the way.

5516
04:37:56,439 --> 04:37:57,439
I agree.

5517
04:37:57,439 --> 04:38:01,970
And why are we exempting the landfill, the airport, all

5518
04:38:01,970 --> 04:38:06,439
utilities, road projects, and DME?

5519
04:38:06,439 --> 04:38:09,439
That's absolutely nuts.

5520
04:38:09,439 --> 04:38:14,569
That's half the trees that probably get cut down in this

5521
04:38:14,569 --> 04:38:15,439
city.

5522
04:38:15,439 --> 04:38:18,180
The one thing I loved in this is the new definition for

5523
04:38:18,180 --> 04:38:21,439
topping, which is an inappropriate pruning technique.

5524
04:38:21,439 --> 04:38:26,439
I hope it applies to DME as we go forward.

5525
04:38:26,439 --> 04:38:29,439
A little sarcasm, sorry.

5526
04:38:29,439 --> 04:38:33,110
Like the infill, there's a requirement that a note be

5527
04:38:33,110 --> 04:38:36,439
placed on a plat regarding preservation trees.

5528
04:38:36,439 --> 04:38:40,439
That tree is going to die eventually.

5529
04:38:40,439 --> 04:38:43,369
And my question is, do I need to get an arborist to get a

5530
04:38:43,369 --> 04:38:46,590
death certificate to bring into the city to amend that plat

5531
04:38:46,590 --> 04:38:49,439
to remove that restriction when the tree dies?

5532
04:38:49,439 --> 04:38:53,180
There shouldn't be a note on the plat regarding tree

5533
04:38:53,180 --> 04:38:56,439
preservation of anything that will die.

5534
04:38:56,439 --> 04:39:00,990
I can go on, but there's a, and don't get me wrong, I think

5535
04:39:00,990 --> 04:39:03,439
the bones here are fabulous.

5536
04:39:03,439 --> 04:39:05,439
Trying to simplify this.

5537
04:39:05,439 --> 04:39:08,939
I think we need to stick to canopy instead of dropping back

5538
04:39:08,939 --> 04:39:12,439
and forth between DBH and canopy and stuff like that.

5539
04:39:12,439 --> 04:39:15,319
I think trying to simplify it, I think the steps they've

5540
04:39:15,319 --> 04:39:18,439
taken have gotten, the bones are there.

5541
04:39:18,439 --> 04:39:21,439
To me, it just needs a little bit of tweaking.

5542
04:39:21,439 --> 04:39:27,700
I mean, I raised a lot of issues, but they can easily be

5543
04:39:27,700 --> 04:39:29,439
addressed.

5544
04:39:29,439 --> 04:39:33,450
There's a few other ones that I really would like to talk,

5545
04:39:33,450 --> 04:39:36,229
like the opportunity to work with staff, and I know I've

5546
04:39:36,229 --> 04:39:37,439
gone over my time.

5547
04:39:37,439 --> 04:39:40,500
And again, if the canopy of the trees are so important, I

5548
04:39:40,500 --> 04:39:43,389
think we should be sticking with canopy, regardless of the

5549
04:39:43,389 --> 04:39:44,439
size of the tree.

5550
04:39:44,439 --> 04:39:48,720
If we can preserve canopy, that's what we should be aiming

5551
04:39:48,720 --> 04:39:49,439
to do.

5552
04:39:49,439 --> 04:39:55,560
And not necessarily saving heritage trees and identifying

5553
04:39:55,560 --> 04:39:57,439
certain diameters.

5554
04:39:57,439 --> 04:39:59,439
If it's canopy, it's canopy.

5555
04:39:59,439 --> 04:40:02,439
That's my two cents.

5556
04:40:02,439 --> 04:40:03,439
Perfect time.

5557
04:40:03,439 --> 04:40:04,439
Any questions?

5558
04:40:04,439 --> 04:40:05,439
Got a question.

5559
04:40:05,439 --> 04:40:06,439
Commissioner Rossell.

5560
04:40:06,439 --> 04:40:07,439
Thank you, Chair.

5561
04:40:07,439 --> 04:40:11,450
Just a quick question, again, just so I can try to frame an

5562
04:40:11,450 --> 04:40:15,360
area in which I'm not familiar in, and those here seem to

5563
04:40:15,360 --> 04:40:16,439
be experts.

5564
04:40:16,439 --> 04:40:19,650
Do you work in any other jurisdictions that you could shed

5565
04:40:19,650 --> 04:40:23,060
light on their incentives for tree preservation as compared

5566
04:40:23,060 --> 04:40:24,439
to this one-to-one?

5567
04:40:24,439 --> 04:40:25,439
I don't know what other jurisdictions.

5568
04:40:25,439 --> 04:40:27,439
No, but I'm sure we can get them.

5569
04:40:27,439 --> 04:40:30,439
I don't recall any offhand.

5570
04:40:30,439 --> 04:40:34,759
I do work in a number, right now the majority of my

5571
04:40:34,759 --> 04:40:39,639
projects are farther out in Ellis County right now and up

5572
04:40:39,639 --> 04:40:41,439
in Grayson County.

5573
04:40:41,439 --> 04:40:44,439
And they're not as sophisticated, quite honestly.

5574
04:40:44,439 --> 04:40:47,840
I work with other folks that are working in Prosper and

5575
04:40:47,840 --> 04:40:51,259
Fort Worth and other communities, and we can get that

5576
04:40:51,259 --> 04:40:52,439
information.

5577
04:40:52,439 --> 04:40:55,709
My personal feeling is that if you want to preserve, if you

5578
04:40:55,709 --> 04:40:58,909
really want to impact tree canopy, you do it through your

5579
04:40:58,909 --> 04:41:03,549
landscape requirements and give really good incentives to

5580
04:41:03,549 --> 04:41:05,439
save existing trees.

5581
04:41:05,439 --> 04:41:07,439
Thank you.

5582
04:41:07,439 --> 04:41:11,439
Thank you.

5583
04:41:11,439 --> 04:41:15,439
Our next speaker will be Rod Zilke.

5584
04:41:15,439 --> 04:41:19,220
And his card, your card's not marked in support or

5585
04:41:19,220 --> 04:41:20,439
opposition.

5586
04:41:20,439 --> 04:41:25,439
I am neither.

5587
04:41:25,439 --> 04:41:27,439
Mr. Chairman and commissioners, my name's Rod Zilke.

5588
04:41:27,439 --> 04:41:33,240
I'm with ZPS Consulting Engineers at 1111 South Main Street

5589
04:41:33,240 --> 04:41:35,439
in Grapevine, Texas.

5590
04:41:35,439 --> 04:41:40,810
For those of you who are new commissioners, you may not

5591
04:41:40,810 --> 04:41:47,009
recognize me, our firm is currently representing, I'm going

5592
04:41:47,009 --> 04:41:51,369
to say, six projects in Denton, multiphase projects,

5593
04:41:51,369 --> 04:41:54,439
minimum of 20 acres, probably to 100 acres.

5594
04:41:54,439 --> 04:41:57,700
So it's a little different perspective than you've gotten

5595
04:41:57,700 --> 04:41:58,439
from Lee.

5596
04:41:58,439 --> 04:42:02,150
And I'm not going to try and focus on the details like

5597
04:42:02,150 --> 04:42:06,380
Larry did, but I'm here to support the concept of amending

5598
04:42:06,380 --> 04:42:10,639
the ordinance that we have because it's so complicated and

5599
04:42:10,639 --> 04:42:12,439
difficult to apply.

5600
04:42:12,439 --> 04:42:17,889
But I'm also here to support DCDA and their request to

5601
04:42:17,889 --> 04:42:21,439
postpone this consideration.

5602
04:42:21,439 --> 04:42:25,450
Give you a different perspective on why I think you should

5603
04:42:25,450 --> 04:42:27,439
consider postponing it.

5604
04:42:27,439 --> 04:42:30,540
As an engineer, the first thing I did when I saw a draft of

5605
04:42:30,540 --> 04:42:33,419
this earlier this week is I thought a good way to test

5606
04:42:33,419 --> 04:42:35,439
anything is to try and apply it.

5607
04:42:35,439 --> 04:42:40,180
I have, like I told you, multiple hundred acres of projects

5608
04:42:40,180 --> 04:42:44,459
that we've been engaged with staff over the last couple

5609
04:42:44,459 --> 04:42:49,659
years working out multiple issues with tree preservation, E

5610
04:42:49,659 --> 04:42:50,439
SA.

5611
04:42:50,439 --> 04:42:53,869
I feel like I'm somewhat of an expert on applying the

5612
04:42:53,869 --> 04:42:57,439
current code and working with your current staff.

5613
04:42:57,439 --> 04:43:00,830
And I'll tell you that when I picked up this ordinance and

5614
04:43:00,830 --> 04:43:04,209
tried to apply it to our projects to see how it compared,

5615
04:43:04,209 --> 04:43:05,439
you can't do it.

5616
04:43:05,439 --> 04:43:08,439
There's not enough information here.

5617
04:43:08,439 --> 04:43:14,919
The code, we frequently refer to the site design criteria

5618
04:43:14,919 --> 04:43:21,669
manual for information in the code amendment, and that hasn

5619
04:43:21,669 --> 04:43:24,439
't been provided yet.

5620
04:43:24,439 --> 04:43:29,250
Now, talking to staff, they may have done a scenario on a

5621
04:43:29,250 --> 04:43:34,220
sample piece of property and assumed some of those criteria

5622
04:43:34,220 --> 04:43:34,439
,

5623
04:43:34,439 --> 04:43:37,939
but I can't advise you or give you my opinion because I can

5624
04:43:37,939 --> 04:43:40,439
't apply the ordinance the way it is.

5625
04:43:40,439 --> 04:43:43,439
I'll give you a couple examples.

5626
04:43:43,439 --> 04:43:46,709
The preservation rates under this current code seem high

5627
04:43:46,709 --> 04:43:49,439
when you compare them to the existing code.

5628
04:43:49,439 --> 04:43:53,759
Right now in the existing code, if I way oversimplify and

5629
04:43:53,759 --> 04:43:58,080
just kind of apply them in general to our projects, we're

5630
04:43:58,080 --> 04:44:02,669
in general preserving about 20% of the caliper inches of

5631
04:44:02,669 --> 04:44:04,439
trees on a property.

5632
04:44:04,439 --> 04:44:08,779
Well, the code now says that when I look at our properties

5633
04:44:08,779 --> 04:44:13,490
that we might be required to preserve 60% to 70% of the

5634
04:44:13,490 --> 04:44:14,439
canopy.

5635
04:44:14,439 --> 04:44:19,000
Well, that sounds high, but it depends on the exempt tree

5636
04:44:19,000 --> 04:44:23,439
list, and there is no exempt tree list provided yet.

5637
04:44:23,439 --> 04:44:26,590
So maybe if you eliminate all the mesquite trees and cedar

5638
04:44:26,590 --> 04:44:30,250
trees and everything and I apply it to my project, maybe 60

5639
04:44:30,250 --> 04:44:32,439
% is more comparable to 20%.

5640
04:44:32,439 --> 04:44:35,439
I can't tell you.

5641
04:44:35,439 --> 04:44:39,650
Another thing that seems out of whack is the mitigation

5642
04:44:39,650 --> 04:44:40,439
ratio.

5643
04:44:40,439 --> 04:44:44,930
Right now we're mitigating trees at about, again, it's very

5644
04:44:44,930 --> 04:44:48,799
complicated ordinance and it varies, but on average one to

5645
04:44:48,799 --> 04:44:50,439
one when we mitigate.

5646
04:44:50,439 --> 04:44:53,439
Well, now we're going to one to four.

5647
04:44:53,439 --> 04:44:58,180
Well, that's pretty extreme, but it depends on the rate

5648
04:44:58,180 --> 04:45:00,439
that mitigation costs.

5649
04:45:00,439 --> 04:45:03,439
And there's no, I mean, that's not provided yet.

5650
04:45:03,439 --> 04:45:07,220
That's site design criteria information or site design

5651
04:45:07,220 --> 04:45:11,439
criteria manual information that's yet to be determined.

5652
04:45:11,439 --> 04:45:16,889
So, I mean, just to make it simple, if we went to a one to

5653
04:45:16,889 --> 04:45:23,029
four ratio, but the rate was 25% of what the previous rate

5654
04:45:23,029 --> 04:45:25,439
was, it'd be the same.

5655
04:45:25,439 --> 04:45:29,200
So there's a lot of information missing here that I think

5656
04:45:29,200 --> 04:45:33,200
it would be really beneficial for staff and the development

5657
04:45:33,200 --> 04:45:38,069
community that has to apply this and work with it every day

5658
04:45:38,069 --> 04:45:38,439
.

5659
04:45:38,439 --> 04:45:41,459
I think it would be very beneficial for staff to get that

5660
04:45:41,459 --> 04:45:42,439
perspective.

5661
04:45:42,439 --> 04:45:44,439
I sure appreciate the effort they've put in.

5662
04:45:44,439 --> 04:45:48,700
I recognize that they've structured this ordinance to be in

5663
04:45:48,700 --> 04:45:52,880
line with other communities and have done that research,

5664
04:45:52,880 --> 04:45:57,479
but I would encourage them to test the ordinance on more

5665
04:45:57,479 --> 04:46:01,799
than one sample piece of property before they profess it's

5666
04:46:01,799 --> 04:46:04,439
a good solution to our problem.

5667
04:46:04,439 --> 04:46:05,439
Thank you.

5668
04:46:05,439 --> 04:46:06,439
Thank you.

5669
04:46:06,439 --> 04:46:09,439
See no questions.

5670
04:46:09,439 --> 04:46:14,439
I have some cards with a note on it.

5671
04:46:14,439 --> 04:46:17,430
That they do not wish to speak but would like their

5672
04:46:17,430 --> 04:46:19,439
comments read in the record.

5673
04:46:19,439 --> 04:46:35,299
I have a comment from Ryan Davenport at 1920 North Lake

5674
04:46:35,299 --> 04:46:40,439
Trail and didn't. It's an opposition wish for this agenda

5675
04:46:40,439 --> 04:46:40,439
item be postponed for consideration until such time didn't

5676
04:46:40,439 --> 04:46:40,439
community development Alliance can review the item before

5677
04:46:40,439 --> 04:46:40,439
and develop a response for this issue.

5678
04:46:40,439 --> 04:46:49,520
I have a card from Chris Ross from at 2113 Emerson and didn

5679
04:46:49,520 --> 04:46:55,150
't. He's in opposition ordinance please delay action until

5680
04:46:55,150 --> 04:46:59,439
the merits of the ordinance can be reviewed by many

5681
04:46:59,439 --> 04:47:04,439
Dalton Allen at 111 Lexington.

5682
04:47:04,439 --> 04:47:08,979
In opposition, would like to postpone acceptance of the

5683
04:47:08,979 --> 04:47:13,709
tree orness until staff can meet with DC, da concerning the

5684
04:47:13,709 --> 04:47:14,439
subject.

5685
04:47:14,439 --> 04:47:19,459
Can't read the first name last name is stone at 6827

5686
04:47:19,459 --> 04:47:21,439
Freeman road crumb.

5687
04:47:21,439 --> 04:47:24,439
Steve, okay, Steve stone.

5688
04:47:24,439 --> 04:47:31,439
He's in opposition, always to request a postponement.

5689
04:47:31,439 --> 04:47:38,080
Kent key at 2925 Country Club is in opposition. He has no

5690
04:47:38,080 --> 04:47:40,439
comment.

5691
04:47:40,439 --> 04:47:46,439
Richard Hayes at 819 West Oak is an opposition.

5692
04:47:46,439 --> 04:47:50,720
He requests, continue the hearing to allow residents time

5693
04:47:50,720 --> 04:47:53,439
to study and comment on proposals.

5694
04:47:53,439 --> 04:47:57,439
Those are all the comment cards that we have on this item.

5695
04:47:57,439 --> 04:48:01,209
I think everybody that's left in the room has either spoken

5696
04:48:01,209 --> 04:48:02,439
or given a card.

5697
04:48:02,439 --> 04:48:05,869
It is a public hearing I'll make a final call for anybody

5698
04:48:05,869 --> 04:48:09,439
else who would like to speak on this particular item.

5699
04:48:09,439 --> 04:48:14,240
Seeing none I will close the public hearing and open the

5700
04:48:14,240 --> 04:48:17,439
floor for discussion or a motion.

5701
04:48:17,439 --> 04:48:19,439
Commissioner Beck. Thank you, Chair.

5702
04:48:19,439 --> 04:48:24,439
I guess maybe this question would go to Shondra.

5703
04:48:24,439 --> 04:48:30,439
The delay is connected in part to a lack of criteria.

5704
04:48:30,439 --> 04:48:35,439
How far away is staff from providing a criteria?

5705
04:48:35,439 --> 04:48:38,439
Actually, the site design criteria manual already exists.

5706
04:48:38,439 --> 04:48:41,439
I think what they're referring to is the exempt trees list,

5707
04:48:41,439 --> 04:48:44,970
which currently is the secondary trees that's listed in the

5708
04:48:44,970 --> 04:48:46,439
existing ordinance.

5709
04:48:46,439 --> 04:48:50,290
We would just update that and include it into the site

5710
04:48:50,290 --> 04:48:52,439
design criteria manual.

5711
04:48:52,439 --> 04:48:56,319
We would also need to provide them eventually some

5712
04:48:56,319 --> 04:49:00,439
education on how to do the calculations for preservation

5713
04:49:00,439 --> 04:49:01,439
and mitigation.

5714
04:49:01,439 --> 04:49:04,439
And we would include that in the manual as well.

5715
04:49:04,439 --> 04:49:07,650
Could we bring all this up to speed, say, if we delayed it

5716
04:49:07,650 --> 04:49:09,439
for 45, 60 days?

5717
04:49:09,439 --> 04:49:13,889
Would that give you all enough time to do what you need to

5718
04:49:13,889 --> 04:49:14,439
do?

5719
04:49:14,439 --> 04:49:18,439
Possibly.

5720
04:49:18,439 --> 04:49:21,970
If I can interject, what we will first do is actually go

5721
04:49:21,970 --> 04:49:25,740
ahead and have a couple of workshops with DCDA so that we

5722
04:49:25,740 --> 04:49:28,330
can walk through the ordinance and do a page turn with them

5723
04:49:28,330 --> 04:49:34,439
, seek their input as well, and also give them our input.

5724
04:49:34,439 --> 04:49:37,770
We do have individuals within our team that come with

5725
04:49:37,770 --> 04:49:40,909
discipline from several communities, so that would be

5726
04:49:40,909 --> 04:49:41,439
advantageous.

5727
04:49:41,439 --> 04:49:44,529
And of course, we would use DCDA to our advantage and

5728
04:49:44,529 --> 04:49:47,569
understand what our engineering community and our

5729
04:49:47,569 --> 04:49:50,819
development community needs and what their obstacles and

5730
04:49:50,819 --> 04:49:54,610
hurdles are when it comes to tree mitigation and

5731
04:49:54,610 --> 04:49:57,990
preservation, generally speaking, and then drill down into

5732
04:49:57,990 --> 04:50:00,439
what we need for the city of Denton.

5733
04:50:00,439 --> 04:50:02,439
So we actually welcome that opportunity.

5734
04:50:02,439 --> 04:50:05,799
We continue to foster our relationship with DCDA, and I

5735
04:50:05,799 --> 04:50:09,220
think this would be one of the steps forward to enhance our

5736
04:50:09,220 --> 04:50:10,439
relationship.

5737
04:50:10,439 --> 04:50:13,990
In order to get to the point where we need to be as well as

5738
04:50:13,990 --> 04:50:18,479
amend the design criteria manual, realistically speaking,

5739
04:50:18,479 --> 04:50:23,389
and with our notification requirements and parameters, 60

5740
04:50:23,389 --> 04:50:25,439
days is not sufficient.

5741
04:50:25,439 --> 04:50:27,439
45 days is not sufficient.

5742
04:50:27,439 --> 04:50:31,500
So if we're going to look at this opportunity, I would

5743
04:50:31,500 --> 04:50:35,930
recommend, or I would suggest, let me rephrase, that we

5744
04:50:35,930 --> 04:50:40,540
postpone this indefinitely until we come to some resolution

5745
04:50:40,540 --> 04:50:48,479
with DCDA and with understanding the milestones associated

5746
04:50:48,479 --> 04:50:53,439
with the design criteria manual.

5747
04:50:53,439 --> 04:50:55,439
Commissioner Rossell.

5748
04:50:55,439 --> 04:50:57,439
Thank you. Thank you, Chair.

5749
04:50:57,439 --> 04:51:01,520
If this does get postponed, or maybe even it doesn't, I

5750
04:51:01,520 --> 04:51:05,540
would like there to be some conversation, whether it's

5751
04:51:05,540 --> 04:51:09,209
internally at the staff level or with DCDA about the

5752
04:51:09,209 --> 04:51:11,439
preservation incentives.

5753
04:51:11,439 --> 04:51:14,380
We just had a really lengthy conversation about how we're

5754
04:51:14,380 --> 04:51:17,330
not necessarily fans of cutting down a tree and replacing

5755
04:51:17,330 --> 04:51:18,439
it just with one.

5756
04:51:18,439 --> 04:51:22,240
And so if there's a protected tree of 18 inches, there's

5757
04:51:22,240 --> 04:51:25,590
not really an incentive for them to just cut it down and

5758
04:51:25,590 --> 04:51:29,069
replace it with a sapling, which seemed like in earlier

5759
04:51:29,069 --> 04:51:31,830
discussions is not necessarily what we'd like to see

5760
04:51:31,830 --> 04:51:34,939
because of the maturity rate and those things brought up

5761
04:51:34,939 --> 04:51:35,439
previously.

5762
04:51:35,439 --> 04:51:40,270
So I would just encourage maybe increasing the incentives,

5763
04:51:40,270 --> 04:51:44,810
if not increasing them across the board, at least change

5764
04:51:44,810 --> 04:51:49,549
the protected incentive and the canopy incentive to be tier

5765
04:51:49,549 --> 04:51:51,439
ed up or something.

5766
04:51:51,439 --> 04:51:55,750
It just seems like if we are valuing the old trees that are

5767
04:51:55,750 --> 04:52:00,040
here and existing, then maybe the incentives could be a

5768
04:52:00,040 --> 04:52:02,439
little bit more generous.

5769
04:52:02,439 --> 04:52:05,439
Okay.

5770
04:52:05,439 --> 04:52:06,439
I have a comment as well.

5771
04:52:06,439 --> 04:52:08,439
I would like to piggyback on that.

5772
04:52:08,439 --> 04:52:11,319
I think it is important and I think it's come before this

5773
04:52:11,319 --> 04:52:14,169
commission and there have been a lot of comments about

5774
04:52:14,169 --> 04:52:15,439
preserving trees.

5775
04:52:15,439 --> 04:52:18,439
And I'm surprised to see that it's a one-to-one.

5776
04:52:18,439 --> 04:52:20,990
I agree if we're going to make it a priority to save them

5777
04:52:20,990 --> 04:52:23,439
that, you know, it needs to be incentivized.

5778
04:52:23,439 --> 04:52:27,500
Otherwise, there's not an incentive if it's in the way you

5779
04:52:27,500 --> 04:52:31,369
move it and just replace it versus it's at least a two-to-

5780
04:52:31,369 --> 04:52:33,439
one and maybe even more.

5781
04:52:33,439 --> 04:52:38,490
And I think Mr. Reichart made a good point about if these

5782
04:52:38,490 --> 04:52:42,709
are identified on the final plat and identified and

5783
04:52:42,709 --> 04:52:46,439
ultimately they die, how that is to be handled.

5784
04:52:46,439 --> 04:52:49,909
So I don't know if there's a procedure that will be put in

5785
04:52:49,909 --> 04:52:53,459
place for that or how that gets addressed, but I see that

5786
04:52:53,459 --> 04:52:56,810
coming back before us a bunch if that's going to be an

5787
04:52:56,810 --> 04:52:57,439
issue.

5788
04:52:57,439 --> 04:53:02,439
And those would be my comments.

5789
04:53:02,439 --> 04:53:06,450
I just wanted to add on the incentives that we are

5790
04:53:06,450 --> 04:53:09,439
including in the proposed code.

5791
04:53:09,439 --> 04:53:12,520
Under the current code, the only incentive is if you

5792
04:53:12,520 --> 04:53:14,439
preserve beyond the minimum.

5793
04:53:14,439 --> 04:53:18,310
So even at a one-to-one ratio, getting credit from

5794
04:53:18,310 --> 04:53:22,970
everything you preserve, it is still more than what is

5795
04:53:22,970 --> 04:53:25,439
under the current code.

5796
04:53:25,439 --> 04:53:30,180
So it's not that it's devaluing the canopy or saying that

5797
04:53:30,180 --> 04:53:35,540
it's just a one-to-one, but going from where we were at,

5798
04:53:35,540 --> 04:53:37,439
you know, it's more.

5799
04:53:37,439 --> 04:53:42,360
That's an improvement, an increase to incentivize

5800
04:53:42,360 --> 04:53:44,439
preserving trees.

5801
04:53:44,439 --> 04:53:45,439
I think that's a good point.

5802
04:53:45,439 --> 04:53:48,750
And if it's every 10 or 11 years before this comes before

5803
04:53:48,750 --> 04:53:51,689
us, I'd like to move the bar even farther and incentivize

5804
04:53:51,689 --> 04:53:54,580
it even more because it may be a while before it comes back

5805
04:53:54,580 --> 04:53:55,439
before us.

5806
04:53:55,439 --> 04:54:02,439
So with that, I recognize Commissioner Taylor.

5807
04:54:02,439 --> 04:54:05,439
Thank you, Chair.

5808
04:54:05,439 --> 04:54:08,439
I don't quite understand that.

5809
04:54:08,439 --> 04:54:11,439
So the mitigation is inch per inch?

5810
04:54:11,439 --> 04:54:17,770
Is that what the replacement tree mitigation is, is caliper

5811
04:54:17,770 --> 04:54:20,439
inch per caliper inch?

5812
04:54:20,439 --> 04:54:22,439
Under the proposed?

5813
04:54:22,439 --> 04:54:25,439
Yeah.

5814
04:54:25,439 --> 04:54:30,099
I have to go through and actually create a calculation to

5815
04:54:30,099 --> 04:54:33,439
get from diameter inches to a canopy.

5816
04:54:33,439 --> 04:54:37,669
Right now, I don't have the data that I need to just have a

5817
04:54:37,669 --> 04:54:40,900
value for what a square foot of canopy is actually worth in

5818
04:54:40,900 --> 04:54:41,439
dense.

5819
04:54:41,439 --> 04:54:44,439
And there are ways to get that information.

5820
04:54:44,439 --> 04:54:48,779
Unfortunately, I don't have that data to provide that I've

5821
04:54:48,779 --> 04:54:52,439
run that calculation using data from other cities.

5822
04:54:52,439 --> 04:54:56,500
And, you know, it works out fine just having it as, you

5823
04:54:56,500 --> 04:55:00,439
know, a certain amount per square foot of canopy.

5824
04:55:00,439 --> 04:55:03,439
That's where I would eventually like to be.

5825
04:55:03,439 --> 04:55:06,400
But right now that would be a mitigation fee per square

5826
04:55:06,400 --> 04:55:07,439
foot of canopy.

5827
04:55:07,439 --> 04:55:08,439
Is that what you mean?

5828
04:55:08,439 --> 04:55:12,279
Yeah, as opposed to the, you know, right now, $125 per

5829
04:55:12,279 --> 04:55:13,439
diameter inch.

5830
04:55:13,439 --> 04:55:16,650
So I guess what I meant, not the each mitigation tree shall

5831
04:55:16,650 --> 04:55:19,909
meet the most like two inch minimum caliper diameter

5832
04:55:19,909 --> 04:55:22,439
measured six inches above grade.

5833
04:55:22,439 --> 04:55:24,439
The replacement tree part of that.

5834
04:55:24,439 --> 04:55:32,439
So I thought I understood it until we just talked about it.

5835
04:55:32,439 --> 04:55:34,439
So I'm just trying to get caught up now.

5836
04:55:34,439 --> 04:55:38,439
I get the kind of the fee if you want to pay a fee.

5837
04:55:38,439 --> 04:55:42,790
But if you are replanting, you know, you're below that 70

5838
04:55:42,790 --> 04:55:47,759
percent of the 30 percent existing canopy on, you know, the

5839
04:55:47,759 --> 04:55:48,439
lot.

5840
04:55:48,439 --> 04:55:50,439
But you're above 50 percent.

5841
04:55:50,439 --> 04:55:52,840
And so you reap you need to cut down the stream, you're

5842
04:55:52,840 --> 04:55:54,439
replanting something over here.

5843
04:55:54,439 --> 04:55:56,439
You're cutting down an eight inch oak.

5844
04:55:56,439 --> 04:55:58,439
Is that for two inch oaks?

5845
04:55:58,439 --> 04:56:01,419
Well, what it what it amounts to is when you when you're

5846
04:56:01,419 --> 04:56:03,439
looking at that one to four ratio.

5847
04:56:03,439 --> 04:56:07,680
So say if the one tree you cut down was a thousand square

5848
04:56:07,680 --> 04:56:08,439
feet.

5849
04:56:08,439 --> 04:56:12,759
Well, you would be required to mitigate for four thousand

5850
04:56:12,759 --> 04:56:16,439
square feet of so you have your future canopy.

5851
04:56:16,439 --> 04:56:17,439
Right. Right.

5852
04:56:17,439 --> 04:56:21,540
And you know, the idea behind that is, well, you know, for

5853
04:56:21,540 --> 04:56:24,459
that one tree to mature to that one thousand square feet

5854
04:56:24,459 --> 04:56:25,439
may take X amount of years.

5855
04:56:25,439 --> 04:56:28,389
But if you have four trees, it's going to cut that time

5856
04:56:28,389 --> 04:56:29,439
down by fourth.

5857
04:56:29,439 --> 04:56:33,959
And so to get back to a replacement of what you took down

5858
04:56:33,959 --> 04:56:38,439
is NC 60 a canopy thing or a tree health thing?

5859
04:56:38,439 --> 04:56:42,889
That's actually standards for the American national

5860
04:56:42,889 --> 04:56:45,439
standards for nurserymen.

5861
04:56:45,439 --> 04:56:49,529
So there are standards for the quality of trees, the types

5862
04:56:49,529 --> 04:56:50,439
of trees.

5863
04:56:50,439 --> 04:56:53,439
They're all graded.

5864
04:56:53,439 --> 04:56:57,439
Is that where the canopy per maximum canopy comes from?

5865
04:56:57,439 --> 04:57:00,439
Or is that a separate would that be a separate table?

5866
04:57:00,439 --> 04:57:04,450
Well, in our existing code, we have recognized values for

5867
04:57:04,450 --> 04:57:08,970
large trees, medium trees and small trees for what the

5868
04:57:08,970 --> 04:57:11,439
mature canopy would be.

5869
04:57:11,439 --> 04:57:15,439
So that's that's where we get that that information from.

5870
04:57:15,439 --> 04:57:17,740
So so in this case, like going back to the example, I'm

5871
04:57:17,740 --> 04:57:20,509
going to cut down this eight inch oak, which has seven

5872
04:57:20,509 --> 04:57:24,439
hundred square feet of canopy or something like that.

5873
04:57:24,439 --> 04:57:26,439
I can and I had to mitigate four to one.

5874
04:57:26,439 --> 04:57:27,439
So I need twenty eight hundred square feet.

5875
04:57:27,439 --> 04:57:31,580
So I can plant two two inch chinkapin oaks, which have a

5876
04:57:31,580 --> 04:57:35,439
two thousand square foot canopy when they grow.

5877
04:57:35,439 --> 04:57:39,479
Is that because I'm putting in four thousand square feet of

5878
04:57:39,479 --> 04:57:43,439
future canopy in two two inch trees to cut down one eight

5879
04:57:43,439 --> 04:57:45,439
inch tree.

5880
04:57:45,439 --> 04:57:47,439
Roughly, I mean, something.

5881
04:57:47,439 --> 04:57:49,779
Yeah. I mean, depending on what the numbers actually are

5882
04:57:49,779 --> 04:57:50,439
per species.

5883
04:57:50,439 --> 04:57:52,439
Right. OK.

5884
04:57:52,439 --> 04:57:55,439
Now that I understand that, that's good.

5885
04:57:55,439 --> 04:58:02,439
I do have a few items from our work session.

5886
04:58:02,439 --> 04:58:05,330
I just want to bring up it looks like we're probably going

5887
04:58:05,330 --> 04:58:06,439
to postpone this.

5888
04:58:06,439 --> 04:58:10,439
So I would like to look at an offsite mitigation option.

5889
04:58:10,439 --> 04:58:14,259
I think that that does provide some opportunity, especially

5890
04:58:14,259 --> 04:58:15,439
in infill lots.

5891
04:58:15,439 --> 04:58:18,259
You've got a half acre lot and you can't remove trees very

5892
04:58:18,259 --> 04:58:21,000
well or you want to keep or you have to remove the one big

5893
04:58:21,000 --> 04:58:24,099
tree in the center of the lot where you need to building

5894
04:58:24,099 --> 04:58:29,439
site to be able to mitigate that in another in town lot

5895
04:58:29,439 --> 04:58:31,439
that will be permanently preserved.

5896
04:58:31,439 --> 04:58:39,130
Whether that's by easement or by tree trust or other

5897
04:58:39,130 --> 04:58:42,439
structure, something like that.

5898
04:58:42,439 --> 04:58:45,439
I'd just like to see what options there are that way.

5899
04:58:45,439 --> 04:58:51,349
And then I would also like to clarify the occupied single

5900
04:58:51,349 --> 04:58:54,439
family exemption clause.

5901
04:58:54,439 --> 04:59:01,340
I would I would prefer that to have a maximum maximum acre

5902
04:59:01,340 --> 04:59:05,250
age size because there could be a loophole on a hundred acre

5903
04:59:05,250 --> 04:59:08,470
site that's planned for development and it has an old farm

5904
04:59:08,470 --> 04:59:09,439
house on it.

5905
04:59:09,439 --> 04:59:13,299
And so I can move into that farmhouse and I can clear out a

5906
04:59:13,299 --> 04:59:17,130
whole bunch of trees and then I can file for plotting to

5907
04:59:17,130 --> 04:59:19,439
build a subdivision there.

5908
04:59:19,439 --> 04:59:24,939
And I would also like to be to more expressly indicate

5909
04:59:24,939 --> 04:59:30,750
either a rollback or a fee structure for using one of the

5910
04:59:30,750 --> 04:59:34,439
exemptions like the ag exemption.

5911
04:59:34,439 --> 04:59:37,990
And then immediately after or shortly after I have an

5912
04:59:37,990 --> 04:59:41,700
exemption on my hundred acres of tree covered land and I

5913
04:59:41,700 --> 04:59:45,470
use that exemption to cut down most of the trees and then I

5914
04:59:45,470 --> 04:59:49,439
come in and file file a plot to build a subdivision again.

5915
04:59:49,439 --> 04:59:52,610
If it's like a two year or five year, maybe even a great

5916
04:59:52,610 --> 04:59:56,200
like a step down every year, you pay less of the mitigation

5917
04:59:56,200 --> 04:59:56,439
.

5918
04:59:56,439 --> 05:00:00,750
And after five years, you don't have to pay any mitigation

5919
05:00:00,750 --> 05:00:03,439
for the clearing that happened.

5920
05:00:03,439 --> 05:00:07,229
So those are one, two, three, three, I guess major points I

5921
05:00:07,229 --> 05:00:09,439
would like to see addressed in this.

5922
05:00:09,439 --> 05:00:12,439
We have two of those already written down to so.

5923
05:00:12,439 --> 05:00:15,439
Thanks.

5924
05:00:15,439 --> 05:00:18,439
Another comment.

5925
05:00:18,439 --> 05:00:29,939
Based on what Commissioner Taylor was just talking about on

5926
05:00:29,939 --> 05:00:33,959
the four to one. Is there a point in the existing tree

5927
05:00:33,959 --> 05:00:34,790
canopy and the requirements there that you would get to a

5928
05:00:34,790 --> 05:00:38,020
point where you can't replace or can't do the four to one

5929
05:00:38,020 --> 05:00:42,439
that the actual new canopy would encompass the whole site.

5930
05:00:42,439 --> 05:00:46,150
Is there a cap somewhere that I don't know the math, but if

5931
05:00:46,150 --> 05:00:49,790
you've got a 60% stand and you can only take a certain

5932
05:00:49,790 --> 05:00:53,509
percentage out and then you've got to mitigate four to one

5933
05:00:53,509 --> 05:00:57,229
that the canopy that is actually larger than the site that

5934
05:00:57,229 --> 05:00:58,439
you have.

5935
05:00:58,439 --> 05:01:02,220
So there probably needs to be if that's a correct analysis

5936
05:01:02,220 --> 05:01:05,700
of where this goes that there's a cap that you can't be

5937
05:01:05,700 --> 05:01:09,970
required to mitigate more than 50% of the side or 75 I don

5938
05:01:09,970 --> 05:01:13,909
't know the number, but that might be something that comes

5939
05:01:13,909 --> 05:01:16,439
into play on the on the other side.

5940
05:01:16,439 --> 05:01:19,439
And then also want to.

5941
05:01:19,439 --> 05:01:21,439
If you have a comment on that.

5942
05:01:21,439 --> 05:01:28,799
Well, just like under the current code. If you can't

5943
05:01:28,799 --> 05:01:30,599
mitigate through replanting completely on site there's

5944
05:01:30,599 --> 05:01:32,349
always option to do a combination of on site planting and

5945
05:01:32,349 --> 05:01:33,439
payment into the tree fund.

5946
05:01:33,439 --> 05:01:37,459
And that's what I was envisioning for the going forward

5947
05:01:37,459 --> 05:01:41,759
would be the same scenario hadn't considered a maximum cap

5948
05:01:41,759 --> 05:01:43,439
based on the site.

5949
05:01:43,439 --> 05:01:46,479
Because you know again you know and one of the other

5950
05:01:46,479 --> 05:01:49,740
reasons why putting that as at a one to four ratio was to

5951
05:01:49,740 --> 05:01:53,080
you know provide some disincentive to take you know the

5952
05:01:53,080 --> 05:01:56,500
easier route and say okay well I'll just cut this down and

5953
05:01:56,500 --> 05:01:59,439
pay you know because it's not going to cost me that much.

5954
05:01:59,439 --> 05:02:03,650
You know, so you have to provide some incentive I think and

5955
05:02:03,650 --> 05:02:08,439
some disincentive to, you know, not meet that requirement.

5956
05:02:08,439 --> 05:02:13,439
Okay. And to your point, did you bring off the off site.

5957
05:02:13,439 --> 05:02:16,630
I think in our work session we talked about there's a

5958
05:02:16,630 --> 05:02:19,439
roughly $3 million in in the front now.

5959
05:02:19,439 --> 05:02:23,750
And I'm wondering how this would play out is if the city

5960
05:02:23,750 --> 05:02:28,040
purchases a site can identify it and through our urban

5961
05:02:28,040 --> 05:02:32,479
foresters and the expertise that we have in house to say

5962
05:02:32,479 --> 05:02:37,209
that this 50 acre site or hundred acre site is a is a prime

5963
05:02:37,209 --> 05:02:41,439
area for us to preserve it rather than.

5964
05:02:41,439 --> 05:02:45,340
We have individual developers trying to pick sites that the

5965
05:02:45,340 --> 05:02:48,919
city buys a block essentially, and then puts a value on

5966
05:02:48,919 --> 05:02:52,639
that that then developers buy out replenish the fund back

5967
05:02:52,639 --> 05:02:54,439
to the city and okay.

5968
05:02:54,439 --> 05:02:59,080
We've got 50 or 100 acres that we have for sale developers

5969
05:02:59,080 --> 05:03:03,000
buy it out money comes back in the city the city identifies

5970
05:03:03,000 --> 05:03:06,520
that spot over there buys other blocks in it just as a

5971
05:03:06,520 --> 05:03:10,529
perpetual circle that the city identifies prime places to

5972
05:03:10,529 --> 05:03:12,439
preserve offers it as an opportunity for

5973
05:03:12,439 --> 05:03:15,500
developers to buy those replace the funds so the city can

5974
05:03:15,500 --> 05:03:18,680
pick that's another great side over there the city gets to

5975
05:03:18,680 --> 05:03:22,020
determine it, rather than developers picking a site, and it

5976
05:03:22,020 --> 05:03:25,069
's going to help their shelter and all over so I don't know

5977
05:03:25,069 --> 05:03:26,439
if that's a possibility.

5978
05:03:26,439 --> 05:03:30,279
It's been done in other places, or what hurdles may be in

5979
05:03:30,279 --> 05:03:34,060
place that preclude us from doing that but that might be

5980
05:03:34,060 --> 05:03:37,439
something if it's possible for us to pursue.

5981
05:03:37,439 --> 05:03:41,229
So I don't know if you'd have any comments or feedback on

5982
05:03:41,229 --> 05:03:44,319
that as well. Well, in the existing code there was an

5983
05:03:44,319 --> 05:03:47,279
option for tree trust, and it was something that, you know,

5984
05:03:47,279 --> 05:03:50,110
I don't I don't even think we've ever, you know had anyone

5985
05:03:50,110 --> 05:03:53,439
to take advantage of it or to use it in the areas where

5986
05:03:53,439 --> 05:03:56,880
tree trust have been used successfully or areas where you

5987
05:03:56,880 --> 05:04:02,009
have, you know, a greater concentration of war areas that

5988
05:04:02,009 --> 05:04:05,439
you have naturally wooded forested land.

5989
05:04:05,439 --> 05:04:09,220
Unfortunately, being we're in this situation we don't have

5990
05:04:09,220 --> 05:04:12,669
the benefit of having, you know, really the natural

5991
05:04:12,669 --> 05:04:16,500
resources that will really afford us to, you know, really

5992
05:04:16,500 --> 05:04:18,439
make that a viable option.

5993
05:04:18,439 --> 05:04:23,819
One other thing is, you know, it's a combination to get to

5994
05:04:23,819 --> 05:04:27,040
where we want to be, you know, part of this preserving

5995
05:04:27,040 --> 05:04:30,439
trees and the greater part of that is replanting trees.

5996
05:04:30,439 --> 05:04:33,319
You know, we all are emotionally attached to the trees we

5997
05:04:33,319 --> 05:04:36,669
see what's already in the environment. But for, you know,

5998
05:04:36,669 --> 05:04:40,139
our kids and our kids kids, we have to plant trees because

5999
05:04:40,139 --> 05:04:43,840
eventually, you know, the trees that we're preserving now

6000
05:04:43,840 --> 05:04:45,439
they're going to die.

6001
05:04:45,439 --> 05:04:49,680
You know, looking long term and holistically it has to be a

6002
05:04:49,680 --> 05:04:53,580
combination of both to really get to where we actually

6003
05:04:53,580 --> 05:04:58,680
increase, you know, our canopy cover. If we preserved 100%

6004
05:04:58,680 --> 05:05:02,819
of the trees that are indenting right now, we still would

6005
05:05:02,819 --> 05:05:06,439
have, you know, no net gain and canopy cover.

6006
05:05:06,439 --> 05:05:09,439
So I guess the answer is that can't be done.

6007
05:05:09,439 --> 05:05:13,450
We looked at it and, you know, and I was even, you know,

6008
05:05:13,450 --> 05:05:17,439
considering having that as an option, the offsite.

6009
05:05:17,439 --> 05:05:20,750
But there are, you know, so many variables with tracking

6010
05:05:20,750 --> 05:05:24,000
where trees go and making sure they're maintained if they

6011
05:05:24,000 --> 05:05:26,439
're planted, you know, other places.

6012
05:05:26,439 --> 05:05:30,299
Just logistically, I think it would be, you know, a

6013
05:05:30,299 --> 05:05:33,439
difficult undertaking to accomplish.

6014
05:05:33,439 --> 05:05:35,650
Well, I'd like to suggest that we take a look at it and see

6015
05:05:35,650 --> 05:05:36,439
where that goes.

6016
05:05:36,439 --> 05:05:40,319
I think, Jefferson Strange, what we'll do is we will

6017
05:05:40,319 --> 05:05:44,400
revisit this option and try and see what we can establish

6018
05:05:44,400 --> 05:05:47,439
as far as that's concerned.

6019
05:05:47,439 --> 05:05:51,439
And I see we have a motion. Commissioner Rosell.

6020
05:05:51,439 --> 05:05:57,110
Thank you, Chair. I motion to postpone agenda item DCA 1601

6021
05:05:57,110 --> 05:06:02,970
pertaining to tree preservation and landscape requirements

6022
05:06:02,970 --> 05:06:04,439
indefinitely.

6023
05:06:04,439 --> 05:06:07,439
Commissioner Begg. Second.

6024
05:06:07,439 --> 05:06:11,159
I have a first and a second. Commissioner Taylor. Thank you

6025
05:06:11,159 --> 05:06:12,439
. Would it be possible to just put a date on it?

6026
05:06:12,439 --> 05:06:16,110
Let's put it on the agenda for 45 days and we can postpone

6027
05:06:16,110 --> 05:06:18,439
it again if we need another 45.

6028
05:06:18,439 --> 05:06:22,099
But when we table it indefinitely with no trigger for it to

6029
05:06:22,099 --> 05:06:26,139
come back before us, it'll be a year before we see it again

6030
05:06:26,139 --> 05:06:26,439
.

6031
05:06:26,439 --> 05:06:28,729
Yeah, I totally agree. I think staff was suggesting

6032
05:06:28,729 --> 05:06:31,439
otherwise just not knowing what the workshops would be.

6033
05:06:31,439 --> 05:06:35,229
I was going off that direction. Right. Well, would it be

6034
05:06:35,229 --> 05:06:37,439
possible to just put it up for 45 days and then you can say

6035
05:06:37,439 --> 05:06:40,439
we're still doing workshops, come back in 30 or?

6036
05:06:40,439 --> 05:06:43,560
Ideally, we would like this to come back within 30 days,

6037
05:06:43,560 --> 05:06:45,439
but we know we have to coordinate.

6038
05:06:45,439 --> 05:06:48,950
So the only reason we said indefinitely is not because, you

6039
05:06:48,950 --> 05:06:52,439
know, we don't want it to take longer than 60 days.

6040
05:06:52,439 --> 05:06:55,580
We have our own milestones and our project plan that we do

6041
05:06:55,580 --> 05:06:56,439
have to hit.

6042
05:06:56,439 --> 05:06:58,919
As a result of this, we will obviously have to miss our

6043
05:06:58,919 --> 05:07:01,439
city council meeting that this was scheduled for.

6044
05:07:01,439 --> 05:07:07,439
So why don't we pick the 45 days? That's fine by us.

6045
05:07:07,439 --> 05:07:10,939
But anticipate that it would be a postponement again and it

6046
05:07:10,939 --> 05:07:14,439
would be an item that would be reflected on the agenda.

6047
05:07:14,439 --> 05:07:18,919
So it just we want to make sure that when we come back to

6048
05:07:18,919 --> 05:07:21,439
you the next time that we are

6049
05:07:21,439 --> 05:07:23,840
very well prepared and have comment from the CDA and

6050
05:07:23,840 --> 05:07:26,439
include their comments within the draft ordinance.

6051
05:07:26,439 --> 05:07:29,159
So we do need some lead time for that to be able to

6052
05:07:29,159 --> 05:07:33,439
coordinate with their subcommittee.

6053
05:07:33,439 --> 05:07:35,439
But it is the wish of the commission should they choose.

6054
05:07:35,439 --> 05:07:40,439
Then can I postpone it to was the May 11th meeting?

6055
05:07:40,439 --> 05:07:44,119
I'd like to throw out before we put a very short time frame

6056
05:07:44,119 --> 05:07:44,439
.

6057
05:07:44,439 --> 05:07:48,250
These gentlemen have been here now for almost three and a

6058
05:07:48,250 --> 05:07:51,439
half hours to give their opportunity to speak.

6059
05:07:51,439 --> 05:07:54,409
And I think in respect for their time, I think instead of

6060
05:07:54,409 --> 05:07:58,930
having this again, 45 days, they're back here to make their

6061
05:07:58,930 --> 05:08:00,439
comments and we're not ready.

6062
05:08:00,439 --> 05:08:04,189
I think it would be more appropriate for their time and

6063
05:08:04,189 --> 05:08:05,439
staff's time.

6064
05:08:05,439 --> 05:08:08,830
If it's 90 days, it can come back before then. If it's

6065
05:08:08,830 --> 05:08:11,279
ready and it's worked out, I'm sure it can come back before

6066
05:08:11,279 --> 05:08:11,439
.

6067
05:08:11,439 --> 05:08:15,790
I just see it's reposted and people are sitting out here

6068
05:08:15,790 --> 05:08:19,439
staff time just so we can postpone it again.

6069
05:08:19,439 --> 05:08:24,069
So I don't know if 90 days would be appropriate that this

6070
05:08:24,069 --> 05:08:27,439
gets worked out and it can come back sooner.

6071
05:08:27,439 --> 05:08:30,779
And if not, gentlemen, in 90 days, you can wait a few more

6072
05:08:30,779 --> 05:08:32,439
hours and talk to us again.

6073
05:08:32,439 --> 05:08:37,439
So would that be a reasonable time?

6074
05:08:37,439 --> 05:08:38,439
Yes.

6075
05:08:38,439 --> 05:08:42,290
So I'd like to offer a friendly amendment that we would

6076
05:08:42,290 --> 05:08:46,439
postpone it for 90 days and then have it come back.

6077
05:08:46,439 --> 05:08:51,259
That's fine with me. I'll amend my motion to a 90 day postp

6078
05:08:51,259 --> 05:08:52,439
onement.

6079
05:08:52,439 --> 05:08:53,439
I'll second that.

6080
05:08:53,439 --> 05:08:59,439
Okay. I have a first and a second to postpone for 90 days.

6081
05:08:59,439 --> 05:09:03,310
And I don't know if the board needs to be cleared or if

6082
05:09:03,310 --> 05:09:07,619
Commissioner Taylor would like to be recognized to speak

6083
05:09:07,619 --> 05:09:08,439
again.

6084
05:09:08,439 --> 05:09:15,439
I still show Commissioner Taylor's request to speak.

6085
05:09:15,439 --> 05:09:20,439
Okay. We have a first and a second to postpone for 90 days.

6086
05:09:20,439 --> 05:09:27,290
Is there any further discussion or comment before I call

6087
05:09:27,290 --> 05:09:30,439
for a vote on the board?

6088
05:09:30,439 --> 05:09:39,400
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board with the

6089
05:09:39,400 --> 05:09:42,439
motion at hand.

6090
05:09:42,439 --> 05:09:51,439
Motion carries 7-0.

6091
05:09:51,439 --> 05:10:03,439
That takes us to our project matrix and concluding items.

6092
05:10:03,439 --> 05:10:04,439
Commissioner Beck.

6093
05:10:04,439 --> 05:10:09,509
I have a concluding item. We were confronted once again

6094
05:10:09,509 --> 05:10:13,439
with an issue that is a little troubling.

6095
05:10:13,439 --> 05:10:16,439
And I'm not pointing a finger at anybody. I think it's a

6096
05:10:16,439 --> 05:10:16,439
process.

6097
05:10:16,439 --> 05:10:19,439
Can you speak into the mic, Rabbi Martin?

6098
05:10:19,439 --> 05:10:22,270
We have been confronted once again with an issue that's a

6099
05:10:22,270 --> 05:10:23,439
little troubling.

6100
05:10:23,439 --> 05:10:26,159
And I don't want to point a finger at anybody. I think it's

6101
05:10:26,159 --> 05:10:27,439
a process problem.

6102
05:10:27,439 --> 05:10:36,680
But once again, once again, people within 200 feet of an

6103
05:10:36,680 --> 05:10:40,779
area on an issue that we're going to talk about are saying

6104
05:10:40,779 --> 05:10:42,439
they just simply aren't getting notification.

6105
05:10:42,439 --> 05:10:46,709
Tonight we had 55 mailers go out and only two people

6106
05:10:46,709 --> 05:10:48,439
responded to that.

6107
05:10:48,439 --> 05:10:51,590
And in an area where you would have expected a lot more

6108
05:10:51,590 --> 05:10:52,439
response.

6109
05:10:52,439 --> 05:10:55,439
So I don't know. I don't know what the problem is.

6110
05:10:55,439 --> 05:10:59,439
This is repeated too often. I'm concerned about it.

6111
05:10:59,439 --> 05:11:01,919
And Commissioner Hudson and I, you know, we're talking

6112
05:11:01,919 --> 05:11:02,439
about it.

6113
05:11:02,439 --> 05:11:06,439
It's just an issue that seems like we need to address.

6114
05:11:06,439 --> 05:11:08,439
Isn't it a certified letter?

6115
05:11:08,439 --> 05:11:09,439
Yes.

6116
05:11:09,439 --> 05:11:12,869
They're signed for. I mean, someone signed for it, I

6117
05:11:12,869 --> 05:11:13,439
imagine.

6118
05:11:13,439 --> 05:11:17,450
And that's what I think it needs. I think it's more just

6119
05:11:17,450 --> 05:11:21,529
what do -- if a resident, if a homeowner comes and says, I

6120
05:11:21,529 --> 05:11:23,439
didn't receive notice,

6121
05:11:23,439 --> 05:11:28,459
where can I go to get that tracking number to get provided

6122
05:11:28,459 --> 05:11:29,439
to them?

6123
05:11:29,439 --> 05:11:33,439
Is that maintained in a spreadsheet somewhere?

6124
05:11:33,439 --> 05:11:37,110
We follow, like I said, state requirement, Texas local

6125
05:11:37,110 --> 05:11:38,439
government code.

6126
05:11:38,439 --> 05:11:44,040
We send notifications, certified mail within 200 feet of

6127
05:11:44,040 --> 05:11:45,439
the request.

6128
05:11:45,439 --> 05:11:49,790
The list, the property owner list is derived or exported

6129
05:11:49,790 --> 05:11:53,439
from DCAT, Tenant County Appraisal District.

6130
05:11:53,439 --> 05:11:56,770
Because that's the only avenue we have to search the

6131
05:11:56,770 --> 05:11:58,439
property ownership.

6132
05:11:58,439 --> 05:12:01,439
We send out certified mail.

6133
05:12:01,439 --> 05:12:06,009
We have heard even when we've done other mailings that we

6134
05:12:06,009 --> 05:12:07,439
get them back.

6135
05:12:07,439 --> 05:12:08,439
They come back to us.

6136
05:12:08,439 --> 05:12:11,880
So if we don't have someone who's very interested in what's

6137
05:12:11,880 --> 05:12:14,819
going on and doesn't check the web -- and checks the

6138
05:12:14,819 --> 05:12:16,439
website or what have you,

6139
05:12:16,439 --> 05:12:20,840
and wonders why they didn't receive a notification, then we

6140
05:12:20,840 --> 05:12:23,439
can obviously resend them a notification.

6141
05:12:23,439 --> 05:12:25,919
But at this point, we're following every avenue, every

6142
05:12:25,919 --> 05:12:28,450
parameter that we have and follow a certain, you know,

6143
05:12:28,450 --> 05:12:30,439
notification process.

6144
05:12:30,439 --> 05:12:36,439
But is there -- is someone physically walking up there?

6145
05:12:36,439 --> 05:12:38,439
There's a tracking number issue.

6146
05:12:38,439 --> 05:12:40,919
If you pay with a credit card, let's say, they're going to

6147
05:12:40,919 --> 05:12:43,439
give you a tracking number at the bottom of the receipt.

6148
05:12:43,439 --> 05:12:45,990
If you're doing certified, the green card, they're giving

6149
05:12:45,990 --> 05:12:51,439
you the -- one, two, three, four, 12 digit.

6150
05:12:51,439 --> 05:12:52,439
Where is that?

6151
05:12:52,439 --> 05:12:54,439
It's not maintained, I bet.

6152
05:12:54,439 --> 05:12:56,439
So we use a service.

6153
05:12:56,439 --> 05:12:57,439
We use click to mail.

6154
05:12:57,439 --> 05:13:03,439
We send them our property address list.

6155
05:13:03,439 --> 05:13:09,439
And from there, they do the mail service for us.

6156
05:13:09,439 --> 05:13:10,439
Right.

6157
05:13:10,439 --> 05:13:13,439
So anything that's returned, it comes back to us.

6158
05:13:13,439 --> 05:13:15,439
And we do receive several returns.

6159
05:13:15,439 --> 05:13:17,919
Or something is -- property owner receives their

6160
05:13:17,919 --> 05:13:20,439
notification and doesn't do anything about it.

6161
05:13:20,439 --> 05:13:24,139
So we are following all the parameters that are in our code

6162
05:13:24,139 --> 05:13:25,439
and ordinances.

6163
05:13:25,439 --> 05:13:26,439
Agreed.

6164
05:13:26,439 --> 05:13:28,439
How can I see that?

6165
05:13:28,439 --> 05:13:29,439
See what?

6166
05:13:29,439 --> 05:13:34,439
I'd like to interject.

6167
05:13:34,439 --> 05:13:37,439
This is off of our agenda.

6168
05:13:37,439 --> 05:13:41,439
And we can ask for things to be put on agenda.

6169
05:13:41,439 --> 05:13:44,450
But we're engaging in discussion of an item that hasn't

6170
05:13:44,450 --> 05:13:46,439
been posted for public hearing.

6171
05:13:46,439 --> 05:13:49,439
And this item has come up several times on this commission.

6172
05:13:49,439 --> 05:13:51,439
And there have been a number of questions.

6173
05:13:51,439 --> 05:13:54,180
And what I'd like to ask is, Chair, if anyone has a

6174
05:13:54,180 --> 05:13:58,020
question or concern about how this is, I'd ask that please

6175
05:13:58,020 --> 05:13:58,439
take the time.

6176
05:13:58,439 --> 05:13:59,439
Get with staff.

6177
05:13:59,439 --> 05:14:03,110
And if for some reason that item can't be addressed to your

6178
05:14:03,110 --> 05:14:06,470
satisfaction one on one with them, then I'd ask if you'd

6179
05:14:06,470 --> 05:14:10,439
like to tonight, let's put it on the matrix.

6180
05:14:10,439 --> 05:14:13,709
And if it can't be handled one on one, then it's on the

6181
05:14:13,709 --> 05:14:14,439
matrix.

6182
05:14:14,439 --> 05:14:17,500
And then it can be brought up before us publicly to be

6183
05:14:17,500 --> 05:14:20,439
discussed in work session or any other item.

6184
05:14:20,439 --> 05:14:22,439
The public has received notice of it.

6185
05:14:22,439 --> 05:14:25,520
I think that's a more appropriate way for us to hash this

6186
05:14:25,520 --> 05:14:28,779
out to everybody's satisfaction that the system that we

6187
05:14:28,779 --> 05:14:32,639
have in place or if it needs to be changed or amended, that

6188
05:14:32,639 --> 05:14:33,439
gets addressed.

6189
05:14:33,439 --> 05:14:38,569
And I think we need to follow legal advice on that at this

6190
05:14:38,569 --> 05:14:39,439
time.

6191
05:14:39,439 --> 05:14:48,409
Do we have another item that anyone would like to place on

6192
05:14:48,409 --> 05:14:54,439
our matrix or future agenda items?

6193
05:14:54,439 --> 05:14:55,439
Seeing none, it's late.

6194
05:14:55,439 --> 05:14:57,439
It's 10 16.

6195
05:14:57,439 --> 05:14:59,439
I'm going to make it the last minute.

6196
05:14:59,439 --> 05:15:00,439
10 16.

6197
05:15:00,439 --> 05:15:02,439
And I will close our meeting tonight.