Mar 09, 2016 Planning and Zoning Commission on 2016-03-09 5:00 PM

March 9th meeting. It is 5/12 and our meeting has been duly posted and a quorum is present and I will call our meeting to order and our first item of business is going to receive a clarification of agenda items and I will turn it over to Manal for that presentation. Thank You Chairperson Strange. If I can just make a quick announcement please prior to commencing with the work session item. I would like to let the Planning and Zoning Commission know that sadly we are losing our senior planner Ross Colbettson. He's moving on to bigger and bigger adventures and tonight will be his last meeting with us. His last day with us is this Friday and I just wanted to personally thank Ross for being a valuable contributor to the community, the department and you will be sadly missed. Another quick item that I wanted to bring up was as we move into our regular meeting we're changing the process just a little bit but I promise it's not confusing. What we're going to do is during our regular meeting public hearing items or any items that warrant a presentation from an applicant they will the chair will open the public hearing the applicant will make their presentation and staff will follow that and provide a summary and a recommendation so that that is on record but this gives a good opportunity for the applicant to provide their presentation too. Some applicants may not have a presentation and would just stand for question but this is the process we intend to attempt to follow starting tonight. Is there a time limit for the applicant to present? I believe there is and I'm looking at the...isn't it 10 minutes? It's 10 minutes for the actual applicant and 10 minutes for any representative up for a total of 20 minutes. Okay that's the same as what it's been. I have one other item that I will add to discussion right now for our work session. The item that's going to be presented in our regular meeting tonight which is Buc-E's or item D which is ADP 16-002 that item is going to be continued tonight so we will just be opening the public hearing and it will be continued to March 23rd so if any of you are watching or listening in regards to our work session and plan to come for that I want to let you know that that will be continued to the March 23rd meeting and we will then now proceed to our presentations this evening in work session. Thank You Commissioner Strange. If the Commission does not have any questions regarding the plots that are on the agenda we can move straight into our public hearing items. Seeing no questions regarding the plots we'll move to the first item that Z16-0001B. Mike Bell is our case planner on that however Mike Bell is not present tonight and Julie will be representing Mike Bell and making the presentation. Thanks Julie. Good evening Julie Wyatt associate planner with the City of Denton and tonight I'm presenting to you Z16-1 Windsor Gardens. The request is to consider making a recommendation to City Council regarding a rezoning request from NR2 to NRMU. The subject property is located on the northwest corner of Bonnie Bray and Windsor. The current zoning for the property is NR2. The request is the proposed zoning district is NRMU neighborhood residential mixed-use. The future land use designation of the property is community mixed-use. The zoning designations that most closely meet the intent of the neighborhood mixed-use future land use designation are NRMU 12 and NRMU. The considerations that staff looked at regarding this request would be that consistent with the Denton plan 2030 and NRMU is consistent with the intent of the future land use designation. Additionally the properties location on at the intersection of two secondary arterial streets makes this an ideal location for the NRMU designation because uses like neighborhood retail service and employment uses also moderate density housing are appropriate for the area particularly as a transition to the single- family neighborhoods that are to the west. An additional consideration that staff looked at would be site constraints. The property is right here. As you can see adjacent to the property on the lots to the west there is a gas well site. This yellow portion is the 250 foot reverse setback that any protected use would need to meet so that is very near the subject property. Additionally this blue is FEMA floodplain so development could not occur within this blue area. So as you can see the develop the developable property is quite small. Staff doesn't foresee an NR2 development to to go in this area. One for the for the roadways that are adjacent and then also because what what could be developed is quite small. Public notification was sent out we have received one letter in favor it is the green area. So based upon the considerations and the require the criteria for approval in the Denton Development Code staff recommends approval of this request and I'll stand for any questions. Commissioner Taylor. Thank you chair. So I have several questions just about not so much this exact project. General use of NRMU versus CMG. Sure. So as you said these are two arterial it's an intersection of two arter ials and there's this area that's probably about 20 acres indicated in the future land use map for neighborhood mixed use. Yes sir. Could you describe under what scenarios would like a CMG versus an NRMU be the correct use at an arterial intersection and what's a typical size how big does a CMG need to be how big does an NRMU need to be? Well NRMU has a lot of limitations as to the to the the size of the use so the intensity of the use. NRMU by its nature would would require a smaller building footprint of the use and less intense. I would say one of the primary factors we would look at would be access. Bonnie Bray and Windsor are streets that are heavily traveled but they are secondary arterials whereas something like University is a primary arterial it's a much more heavily traveled streets. These are streets that are accessed by lots of neighborhoods near there but they are a little more cloistered than a university or maybe a Teasley would be. So we really don't foresee a CMG in this area because the access is mainly for the the adjacent neighborhoods and less for citywide. Our comp plan, let me make sure I'm speaking correctly. Den Plan 2030 doesn't necessarily call for a specific specific size of parcel but it is a smaller footprint than the CMG would be so it is intended to be more of a neighborhood scale than a CMG would be more of a community-wide scale. Does that answer your question? Did I get there? Yeah I was just trying to get and I understand every every location is different every project is different but I was just trying to say like an NRMU might be appropriate from 5 to 20 acres or a CMG we wouldn't want a CMG less than you know 20 or 15 or so if there are some kind of categories of size where it would be it would not be feasible for an NRMU to be bigger than this or well she needs at least this much. That's a good point but when we look at both the NRMU and CMG we really want to see a mix of uses. There really was the intent of those zoning districts and I think it's the intent of the future land use designation so although a parcel may be smaller or may be larger what we want to see is a mix of uses in that area so we don't in our staff's analysis of the site we don't necessarily look at the size we look at the mix of uses and we look at the access. And one one final question since this is already designated NRMU in the future land use map would this have been appropriate for a staff initiated rezone? Yes and I believe it's in Mike's staff report that we'll be looking at this area particularly the properties to the north and see if it's it would be appropriate to move forward with with a staff initiated rez oning. There is already NRMU to the south the church property is NRMU so this really is a logical extension of that NRMU and it may it may be necessary to move that even further and go go north for that. Thank you. Sure. Commissioner Beck I think was first. Thank you chair. Kind of following along this line of thought here in your literature you say staff would caution however that multif amily development as a single use may be too intense for this area if developed at the maximum density of 30 units per acre and I believe the intent here of the person who wants this change is looking at townhomes which is 12 units or something? Correct. NRMU does allow the use but it limits the density to 12 units per acre. Why did we consider and I would like us to probably consider NRMU 12 then why not do that then that meet the needs of everybody here and and keep this high density situation and kind of under wraps. I've noticed on the future land map area that the area was the moderate residential use across the street and going up there the neighborhood mixed use the NR MU that's across the street that's that's just a church that's you know so that's. And I think because it's on the hard corner we wanted a little higher intensity than the NRMU 12 plus there is the adjacency it is developed as a church but it does have that zoning designation so it makes sense to continue that zoning district. What is moderate residential considered to be? Does that include multi-family? Well it is dwelling units 4 to 12 dwelling units per acre. I believe I 've quoted that right. Ron might correct me. Moderate density 12 4 to 12 dwelling units per acre? Yes. Okay. So I mean that would kind of coincide with an NRMU 12 more than it would an NRMU I would think. Well. With the potential of a multi- family. And you could see the moderate densities is more across the street. This is more to be intended to be a neighborhood mixed use or more as a center because this right here has more access because it's on the corner of the two arterial roads. Okay. It might although the applicant is proposing town homes. Staff when we look at a rezoning we look at all the permitted uses in a zoning district and if for some reason this didn't develop the way it's intended we would want to look at also the commercial uses because this is it could be appropriate to have commercial uses in this area as well. Okay. Neighborhood scale. Switching to a different topic. The ESA nearby. Yeah. That's not going to be impacted by any. Well and that was actually part of our analysis because there is a floodway and the ESA is embedded. Is that part of the blue area or the green area? This blue. Okay. What's that green area? This is are you talking about this right here? Well it's greenish. It's my. I could say okay yes it's the yellow buffer going over the blue. Okay. So this really takes all of this blue can't be impacted by the development and so per our code so really the developable area is outside of the blue which is part of the analysis that made that NR 2 really isn't an appropriate zoning district because the I believe there 's about 2.7 acres that are developable and it's it's you know probably wouldn 't get two dwelling single-family dwelling units two to an acre in just this this small area. Okay since that's the ESA is kind of hands-off in that kind of answer. Right. I'm concerned about the trees that are extending into that site then they we'd be able to keep those. I believe the trees on this side on this side yeah look like those are actually within the area it looks like it's close in the floodways or the floodplain so they do development we'll take a close look at see how much they're gonna take away from it. They would have to meet any tree preservation requirement. Okay. Sure. I think I have a comment from Manal please. Thank you for the valuable questions it's very exciting to see these types of conversations evolving. One of the things that we also need to look at these is the existing zoning map and Julie if you can go to that please for a second. So the request before us today is for a request of change in zoning. We comprehensively evaluate the proposed request and the permitted uses within that zoning district or that category and then we also look at the surrounding zoning pattern not just the existing land uses but the surrounding zoning pattern. Would it be logical then to extend the NRMU as proposed because what we have to the south even though it's bifurcated by a right-of-way? Yes. What is the intent of the NRMU? To allow for mixed uses but to have more intense component non-residential component evolve in that arena. Is there an opportunity now to revisit and look at that and I'm going to call it the yellow component around the subject site north and to the west of it. Absolutely because we also know that there are physical constraints on that site that would limit the developability for potentially residential neighborhoods that is for a developer perhaps financially feasible or not. Who knows? But the point is what can we do with that quadrant? What now we start talking about the comprehensive plan and what value it offers in us ascertaining what is the best development pattern associated with the zoning category that is being requested now and what would happen in the future. Any specific use that chooses to develop under that zoning classification or that zoning category would have to comply with those zoning parameters as it relates to density for example or as it relates to lot coverage as it relates to your setbacks. Your tree mitigation and preservation requirements would also come into play at the time of submittal for building permit because the use would be permitted. What we've provided to you is to try and give you as detailed information as we possibly can but there's no guarantee that the site would be developed with townhomes. So we know that that is the potential or that's what's been proposed however if that doesn't happen then we need to make sure we safeguard the zoning district that's that's being proposed and we evaluate that in terms of if the proposed use doesn't happen because that's not the factor hits the zoning change request then what development pattern would we see and that was what we based our argument on or discussion on. Commissioner Detowitz. I'm just and I agree with that by the way and just to the south where we say there's a church but that red area is already and NRMU and it's posted right now for sale for retail purposes so that just now is going to facilitate that whole area to be developed in a mixed use scenario and so yeah this is a you know a good use of that property as I drive by it all the time and look at it and see the weeds growing up and wondering whenever that particular area is going to be developed. Commissioner Brue gel. Thank You Chair. This is a really it's a it's a good piece of land you know is right next to church it's next to the park it's on a hard corner it's easy access to I-35. My concern is about the potential for developing townhomes there in that it's so close to a gas well and I know that we have the city has some standards for property owners that they must be notified before they purchase the property that there's a gas well there but my hunch is that the people who are living in the town homes probably don't own the town homes they're probably renters so I was wondering if staff could give me some sort of like that has a comment I'm sorry I cut you off but I have the answer to your question. Oh good. I talked too much anyway. No no not at all and I apologize as we proceed with the plotting procedure there are some parameters in our gas well ordinance that require to the greatest extent possible from our perspective or our discipline on what needs to be notified on the plat so the plat would reflect the proximity of for instance the gas well or the gas well if there's any number of gas wells in the distance from there. Right and I recognize that that that's a separate issue from the zoning thing that we're looking at tonight I get that but it is it is related and so when we get there I mean let's be honest a renter is not going to look at a plat so I would like for the city to be thinking about this when we're when we're seeing cases like this how are we going to protect people who are living in those neighborhoods who may not be aware that that is even I mean there's so many young families that would be that would be a perfect location it's close to a park it's right across the street from a fire department you know like it's it's it's wonderful for young families and I just want to make sure that people are fully aware and I understand again issue but this is something that I want the city to be addressing. You're absolutely right and when we and when we look at this site specifically if you look at the access points for the gas well plot as someone starts looking at potentially utilizing the town homes that are or you know renting the town homes if they become rental properties or what have you if they become for sale that's a different scenario because the postings are there but for rental I need to double check the gas well ordinance to see what the parameters are in there but in this instance if we thought about this too if you look at the access points to the gas well they're very clear and visible at this point so hopefully windshield inspection would highlight that to the potential renter for example but I will revisit the gas well ordinance and provide you I might be able to add one more detail. It may not help renters but I discussed it with our gas well administrator today because I thought this question may come up there is also there are also requirements that the homeowners Association if there's a homeowners Association would also have some notification requirements so it would be there would be notes on the plat because it's within a thousand feet of a gas well and the HOA once again it may not it may not help renters but it's another layer but we can check we can check for additional and I and again I recognize that is that's that's further down the road like right now we're just looking at the rez oning requests but this is this could this could be a conflict and so I just want us all to be aware sure sure. Commissioner Beck. As development does occur around a gas well, are the requirements to increase barriers? There is a reverse setback I'm not I'm not aware of any barriers that would be required unless the gas well administrator came in with a new site plan then there may be some additional site considerations that staff would be looking at but there is the reverse setback of 250 feet for protected uses so so at that point that's what they would need to meet. I just was clarifying with staff that at this time all we 're doing is zoning the property and at any point in the future when this comes back for a preliminary plat or even the final plat this Commission will then have an opportunity to review this site again any concerns about gas wells or anything else is appropriate to be addressed at that time but as far as a straight zoning case as long as it's in in in compliance with what the future zoning is on 2030 that's really our only item to be concerned with and to be considering on this item at this time so I appreciate the comments and the concerns but they're kind of outside of what our purview is and in lieu of time I'd like to keep our discussions on the facts the matter of whether this zoning is appropriate for this side or not. I have any other questions on this item before we move on the next one. I just wanted to address the Commission and discuss the comment Commissioner Taylor brought up regarding the the neighborhood mixed-use community mixed-use and regional mixed-use. Julie is absolutely correct it's based on the draw of you know the area how she this is more intended for neighborhood serving type services and also want to point out that there is a table in our plan 2030 that identifies mixed-use development as you know what we would like to see in these areas if we're wanting them to be developed as mixed- use there's a percentage of what the minimum acreage is and what the uses should be as far as each of the different mixed uses that are considered so just to help explain a little bit further in regards to the rezoning of the property to the north we did discuss this with the applicant at the time unfortunately I don't think they purchased the property or they're not the owner of the property if they were I'm sure we would have been looking at a rezoning of that area as part of this proposal. Any other questions for staff on this item? Seeing none we'll move on to our next item. Thank you Chairperson Strange. The next item is 4B Z15-0034 I'm going to ask Ross Colbetton to make this presentation for a zoning change request from NR4 to ECI. Thanks Ross. Thank you, Met all. Thank you Commission for your statement of appreciation. Dilly noted and thank you. It was a great serving with you serving this department serving the citizens of Denton with this position. Tonight I'm bringing before you Z15-0034 for United Way of Denton County. The request is to make a consideration for City Council regarding a neighborhood four neighborhood residential four district to be rezoned to Employment Center Industrial on approximately five acres. The site is located on Moore Street 250 feet 295 feet west of Woodrow Lane outlined by the property line there. The property is currently zoned NR4. As you can see the NR4 reacts and reflects the neighborhood context to the west of the site. It was zoned in 2002 with the citywide rezoning efforts to again kind of reflect the low to moderate single-family residential in the area. It anticipated the continuation of single-family uses up to where there is currently the industrial zoning fronting Woodrow Street and the property in question is actually a property owned by the Denton Housing Authority and just to give you a little history we had a neighborhood meeting between with with the United Way of Denton County and how they presented a really good relationship with the Denton Housing Authority and as this property was under their ownership they were looking to find a compatible use to use that to utilize this property for the best benefit of the community and that relationship stands with the presentation of this zoning case. ECI is a compatible zoning that's surrounding the subject property from the north the east and the south that ECI zoning was in place in 1999 and it allows for the professional office and community service uses anticipated with the zoning of the property adjacent properties or ECI and a rezoning if you look over to the other map just recently with Z1404 rez oning occurred for 2.3 acres to again adjust the zoning from neighborhood residential forward to ECI. The future land use map indicates this area to be business innovation uses it encourages business parks and office employment centers within that district business innovation is a compatible land use adjacent single family neighborhoods and rezoning to ECI is consistent with the business innovation for the future land use map. Our considerations and staff analysis the property shape and a in proximity to commercial uses limits for future development for residential. ECI permits the intended office and community service uses and will be located close to other nonprofit and community uses your staff report indicates that there are adjacent churches and Martin Luther King Jr. Community Center rec center that serve the greater need of didn't residents in this in this in this area of town. Surrounding land uses to the north east and south are commercial industrial in nature and the anticipated uses will conform to all chapter 13 standards for mitigating use impacts to the adjacent neighborhood. Criteria for approval the didn't develop the code lists criteria for as we were stating before that the rezoning would conform to the land use element of the didn 't plan 2030 and that the proposed rezoning would facilitate the adequate provision of transportation water sewers parks and other public requirements and conven iences and staff we get to the recommendation a second a public notice notification was sent on February 21st with 40 mail outs to residents within 200 feet and courtesy notices 78 sent to individuals within 500 feet of the subject property and no responses have been returned as as today. So based on the considerations and the requirements within chapter sub chapter 35 3 staff recommends approval of this request and I will stand for any questions. Commissioner Hesbeth. Thank you chair. So do we know where they're planning to place the building because it's it's five minutes from my house so it's near and dear to my heart and I walked the neighborhood today and I talked to one of the residents that's just across the street that did not said he didn't receive the notice whatever that means and then there's one of the residents that will be here this evening for the hearing. My question is do do we know where on that property they're going to place? No we don't. And so help me understand what we're voting on. Well this is going to be the same issue that we just talked about we're just looking at zoning only on this particular item I believe until it comes back to preliminary plat then we'll discuss where buildings will be placed and whether you want to approve or put a condition on a on a preliminary plat or final plat we'll get to that point. Okay so my question functionally what is the process for the fire in and out with it only having access on Morris? There'd either have to be a looped fire lane around the building to have an entry and exit on Morris I don't know if there will be a second point of access yes two points of access will be needed for the property so they would have to have two driveway cuts on more street. May I interject? Sure. The details associated with the site engineering with the building permit package which is how the building would lay the footprint the safety elements associated with that all that would be addressed at the time of submittal of building permit. Prior to that the property would have to be preliminary and final plotted. At the preliminary at the final planning stage full civils would be reviewed and approved prior to the final plot coming before yourselves. In terms of the building footprint right now we cannot address that because the request before us is to for the Commission to review the merits of changing the existing zoning on the property to ECI. So what we've provided you is an analysis that shows that it's a logical transition transitional zoning. Ross would you put up the zoning map please? And if you look around the area fully understand that there's residential development west of the site the west boundary line and a little bit to the north. When development does occur a sufficient landscape buffer would have to be provided or a buffer strip as we call it would have to be provided to provide one the separation between the two uses and then beyond that there are specific building setbacks so the building would have to be set back from the right of way and then the adjacent other property lines specific distance too. So at this point we're really only evaluating the zoning change request because under the ECI and in your report and I think Ross touched on this a little bit too we 're discussing what uses are permitted. So the study before us or the analysis before us is is it feasible to change the zoning of the property that is highlighted there to ECI and if it is those are the following uses that would be permitted. Okay thank you. Can we go back to yes future land uses map? Okay and anyone I don't know who answers this question but can you give me the practical application of this map seen as how the purple which is the light purple so that's business innovation bleeds past the neighborhood. So is it I just want to kind of understand what if I'm looking at this evaluating to see if it it fits maybe you can help me understand how that transitions from so we 're going from business innovation to low residential. The comprehensive plan was designed and it is depicted as non parcel based so there are kind of a bleed buffer or bleed use line of where in anticipation of new uses but it stands to reason that there is a strict line where these are lots that abut these these are existing single-family lots so thus any kind of new use that comes in would be parcel based based on the parameters of the the boundary of that of that property so there would not be any discussion of bleeding any additional business innovation uses into the into the property we could set this as a hard line based on this rezoning effort. Okay and one last technical question I don't know is that enough space in that entrance for it to function as a so currently as a residential it doesn't need as much space for fire so physically is there enough space for fire to even consider transitioning to EC1? The applicant will be here tonight and they have an architect consultant with them they just have not flushed out any design efforts and brought into our attention yet of what the layout is going to be. Feel free to ask them when they come up and make their presentation we just we don't have anything here. Anything else? Commissioner Rosell. Thank you chair this question kind of is similar to the one previous and that we're approving a rez oning this evening so we don't know if United Way will actually build that's not that's not what we're approving it's not a guarantee and so what I understand from business innovation is these office parks not like high density type things but ECI you can have a drive-through facility a private club quick vehicle servicing there's a lot of things that could be put there I 'm wondering if business innovation there's a better way to define that zone so we get like an office part if United Way doesn't go in there I'm just concerned if United Way that backs out we're gonna get a club in the back of someone's backyard. I don't know if there's an answer for that but it seems like there's might be a better way of getting business innovation type buildings than ECI. I think in our backup it says that the home the owner is the housing authority is who currently owns the property. So they wouldn't be wanting to sell to private interests. If they would chose to do that. Commissioner Taylor. Thank you Chair. So I look at this this color transition and I think it's interesting the the way I think these transitions were applied is any of the NR districts were the base layer and then all of the other colors bleed across into NR which is just kind of interesting the last one did that too where the area across the street bled into the NRMU but I do feel this is an important transition zone because we have you know industrial uses existing industrial industrial uses that have been there since at least the 80s along Woodrow but we also have an established neighborhood you know that's been growing over over the last several decades and this to me feels like like this lot coming to the houses would be an appropriate location for the transition and to just take it to ECI which is a very intense one of the most intense zoning categories we have to an existing houses back fence does feel like it it goes against some of the comprehensive plan so I and I know that we have a lot of other zoning categories that are appropriate for offices and might even be more appropriate for office buildings while removing heavy vehicle servicing and these cut very industrial uses that would probably be the most noxious to have across somebody's back fence so did we look at ECC or I almost think more categories outside of the EC category would be more appropriate but I know that there isn't any around here is there any other zoning category that we looked at we did analyze the proximity to the residential neighborhood we took that into consideration we also tried to analyze the schedule of permitted uses we did we looked at other zoning categories with the schedule of uses this was the least was the most restrictive of those districts the ECI secondly if we just took this parcel out and and rezone this then would we be compromising our charge of looking to consolidate zoning classifications and zoning categories thirdly we also know that we have the ability to provide the adequate landscape buffer requirements and Ross please correct me is it a D type C buffer which is what 30 feet 30 feet with 20 feet it's I believe it's a 30 foot buffer if we could clarify that so from a from a zoning perspective is the zoning the zoning change appropriate we felt yes given the surrounding zoning pattern however we also looked at the applicant and the ownership and the intent for fully knowing that there is a possibility that it may not develop with what we've heard that it could potentially develop with but we know who the owner is too you know and so we did take those those elements into consideration so to looking at just a ECI to ECC ECC is tends toward more office uses and less industrial uses it does allow slightly higher density but it also has higher landscape requirements so basically lives before story building instead of a two story building basically was there and we have a lot of business innovation is falling into the ECC and we have just across the street ECC and ECI kind of checkerboarded together would it seems to me that that it's slightly less intense so it's provide some buffer was that was that evaluated was there what was the reason we didn't go with ECC I believe the primary reason why we didn't go with ECC is to ensure that we had a comprehensive ECI structure there if you look at if we were to just go ahead we just recently added an ECI zoning designation right next to it so in terms of develop ability of the overall area that is ECI and the proposed ECI it would develop comprehensively or redevelop comprehensively now this doesn't you know and Jennifer correct me if I'm wrong but should the Commission see fit that ECI is not the appropriate zoning designation could they then recommend an alternative zoning designation we would have to repost it the applicants the applicant understood that there were different EC categories they felt good with staffs recommendation of ECI they didn't challenge that we did look at ECC and again when all point is basis of our analysis where since in 2014 a recent zone rezoning happened adjacent and it was for you never know what that use was for but it was anticipated for the growth and expansion of the warehouse uses on Woodrow so our logic took that as a starting point and just to add to that we are dentin development code only caters to straight zoning categories so we don't have the opportunity to create specific districts to accommodate specific uses either so that's where the second challenge arises as to how do we ensure the proper progression or transition of zoning that other Avenue does not exist at this time that it David good Commissioner Bruegel thank you so kind of take tagging off of what y'all are asking because it's my question too is you know we see rezone cases for other developers other projects and you know and what happens if we rezone it with the the thought that the intent is going to be for this and then they flip the property right in this case you know we know it's you know Denton housing Denton Housing Authority and United Way and I sat down with Gary Henderson and I asked him this what you know what happens if y'all flip this hypothetically speaking and he he wasn't she was gonna sit down with staff and kind of talk about this but is this is this something that could we create some sort of like overlay or something that just to protect the neighborhood so that if if if yeah we're in a nation yeah yeah we have the parameters to create a specific overlay just again it would go back to the posting issue correct Jennifer yes you'd have to post it and we'd have to bring it back but I'm not sure I'm just trying to think yeah we I mean we do overlays before I'm just trying to think is there a way that you've done overlays to protect where they weren't noticed yes so what's happened in the past is that if the Commission sees a different Avenue or to provide specific site design related restrictions or use restrictions especially in the residential design nations overlays have been recommended and then adopted I'm just trying to think of some some additional way to further protect the neighborhood so just just to keep things consistent right like I mean because we shouldn 't be playing favorites between well it's United Way or it's you know and you're talking about the residential mixed-use overlay and I think that's the commercial only I'm not sure that's industrialism we don't have a non-residential over a district yeah so I don't think that's possible or another idea perhaps to tie the you know the motion into something like we will approve this as long as it stays with which goes back to well that's that that's conditional zoning and for all right we can't do that illegal okay so never mind I'm just trying to think you know like let's think of different ways that we could protect the residential neighborhood to the to the West just to kind of keep things consistent you know I guess I'd have a question the neighborhood already backs to the South ICI so I understand the concern if this was the only place that that neighborhood bordered this category but it borders it in all other places and there are a number of existing businesses that are already there and operating it's not just vacant land so I understand the concern and if it was a hey this is the first piece now that's bordering neighborhood I agree I think would be more of a concern for me but with it the neighborhood already bordering those areas and already having businesses operating I don't I don't have the same concern but other commissioners may Commissioner H utsworth yeah so that's a good point but the difference is the the lay of the land buffers the neighborhood naturally from those other businesses so you 'll access all those other businesses on Woodrow or to the I think that's to the south towards yeah you you exit all that through those major streets but Morris Street is absolutely residential there's not a there's not a sign there's not there's nothing that indicates business until you get to the stop sign at Woodrow and so that's where it's kind of unique because you're gonna have this I'm assuming some sort of sign that says turn here you're gonna I mean it's going to stick out whereas the other businesses are naturally facing Woodrow facing shady shores so it doesn't really interact with the neighborhood although it butts up against it even if you look at UPS there that center you got to come all the way down to the signal light and then you get to it but other than that you don't see any signage there's no it's all kind of uniform so that's really I get hung up on and I just someone can give me a yes or no I'm not not probing but in order to consider ECI if you've that you had a conversation with them I go back to my question you have to consider if the fire trucks can get in there and so either someone did or did not in advance of bringing it to us but I'm just curious did someone entertain that thought or no they have a team that is designing the site for them and they are very familiar with what the fire requirements are what the number of entrances or exits required are placement of building gross floor area coverage building setback when we speak to the and Ross I'm going to lean on you just because to jog my memory what is the right-of-way classification of more more Street now we cannot the other this property would have mostly have access off of more straight also so the property to the north that Ross was pointing out to would have several access points if it were subdivided we cannot landlock a property they have to have genuine access off of a right-of -way as well but when it comes time to submitting for their building permit plans all these elements will be vetted and if they don't comply with any of those requirements they won't secure the building permit and and I think to mr. see drainage I believe drainage goes this way because there is a channel this way so in all intents and purposes a lot of this area may be considered for detention facilities so that's one protection and there's a tree stand right there we don't know what the intent is for development of that but there are natural features that preclude building and fire lane and nuisance of on-site circulation right up against their residents there sure yeah no for the sake of time I'll take it up out there but I I'm not I 'm not okay I mean that the more Street was just done with CDBG funds I do believe the sewer was done from beginning to end so it's a two-year-old piece of pavement that we're going to now dig up again potentially for drainage for this that and the other I just it gives me a lot of heartache and I do like what Taylor Briggle and and Andrew touched on and that I think there's a different classification that gets us the same place and so if we have to hopefully rep ost or whatever to get it more in line that would be great but I'll say that thank you commissioner Dudowitz chairman add on to the conversation the newly cited or re-sown piece right yeah what right there what was the intent for that and that property you know it was my understanding it was for the benefit of any expansion of these extension of the it was a zoning change to accommodate spec development in the future okay and they would have entrance how well it depends if they utilize that sliver that's just been incorporated as part of expansion then they could create some avenue to have access to their eastern component of the property or off of Morse as well would be permitted that's what we wouldn't be we wouldn't landlock the property exactly Commissioner Beck just want to touch briefly on the fact that we had all these notices go out and absolutely nobody on Baldwin or Amy court responded I noticed in the paperwork that they did have a town hall meeting and the community did get involved and that's good I'm really excited about this project I'd like to see it go forward but I'm concerned and this isn't the first time we've seen this that the lack of response from the residents are going to be impacted the most concerns me that would like come up later and create a barrier for this thing to go forward so how is it just me or should we be concerned that nobody in the area that's the residential area it's going to be impacted most responded do we just take that that way okay that's fine go ahead or shouldn't we be concerned that they got proper notification well I think they got proper notification certified notices let's had a neighborhood meeting also in our backup it's right but I noticed on that list that the closest person that to this development is like four blocks away on the 1300 block of more street we did get I did get I did receive calls from individuals I believe in one of these two houses asking questions about buffering I took the calls but they did not you know request a vote against their opinion and we take phone calls we take note emails and faxes that are received based on our mail out don't you have a notification map you can put up and if you put that up please if I speak to my experience Commissioner Beck when I've been a part of a notification of a Brazil thank you and see my neighbors it's more a matter of indifference that there's not been a response so in my experience that there 's notifications beginning there just a matter of indifference and I understand I hope that's all it is I'm just concerned because I really you know I'm excited about this project and I didn't see some pop-up later you know being accused of nobody sure thought if I may well I guess for the for the record that's the notification map of everybody that got a notice and I understand that I don't want to pick on anybody here but you know did it actually have or not I'm I have no reason to think it didn't but talking with the Commissioner Hutz with earlier he actually walked that ball in the street and what was your sense that they got a notification? Yeah so the gentleman Commissioner Hutzbeth. Thank you. So the gentleman Ross is speaking of will be here tonight that he's the very front of that kind of that L shape he got the notice I don't know why I didn't respond but he'll be here and then if you jump the creek there's those three houses right next to each other Daniel is a gentleman that owned a tow truck company right there on the on the corner he said he did not receive the notice he he is okay with the project concerned about traffic as is everyone I talked to in the neighborhood that's the biggest concern and but he said he did not receive the notice I mean and I don't know that doesn't mean it wasn't sent that didn't I mean I had a that happens I don't know I'm not gonna go you know argue either way I'm saying I asked staff to give an explanation of what notice you get in a 200 foot buffer and 500 so we all get the facts of what hasn't hasn't been done. Sure. Just a second please go ahead if you'll give that for us. Thank you Commissioner Strange I'm just thinking about that note and I want succinctly put this language together the 200 foot notification is a required is a state-manded notification process we are required to send out with any zoning change a property owner notice informing them of the request and of the date of the meeting that is the 200 foot buffer those are certified mailouts that go to those property owners the property owner list is extracted from the county DCAT and so if there are any changes to that because we update those every year minimum sometimes every six months if I'm not mistaken so if there is a change in ownership sometimes you lose that they don't get that notice for example or its return the 500 foot notification is purely courtesy and that enables individuals if they are interested in the case just as you mentioned the the properties across the creek when you jump the creek we would like to hear what they have to say but when it comes to the ultimate count of how many notices or property owners were for or against the request we would use the 200 foot notification Commissioner Dadowitz I just wanted to clarify to mr. Hussp ett that notices go to the property owner I'm a property owner but it's a corporation I have a corporate address and those notices go to a corporate address and I obviously get them but if it's a renter if it's a leasy those those become issues that we've always addressed when we had even the oil fracking issue - how do we notice people when the surrounding area so that's part of the process and problem is it that owner doesn't pass it on or whatever then we're in the hard place yes exactly and I think that's that that ball on street is is right for that it's college kids it's probably 60 rent 40 own percentage you know so that makes sense but then it's again as a property owner who's renting you just may not care that it comes to that fruition and he may move on and meet do something else with that property so it's it's a balancing act that we have to you know walk through with this notice situation I agree any other further questions for staff on this item thank you Ross that will move us to I don't see well Ross item 4c item 4c is SUP 1518 Elm courts the request is regarding a specific use permit to allow multifamily dwelling units on approximately 0.8 acres within a neighborhood residential 12 zoning district location of the properties on the southeast corner of Talaferro Street and North Elm Street zoning map indicates that the property is owned in our immune 12 and within that zoning district multifamily units require an SUP that zoning district was indicated and established by an ordinance in 2002 which anticipated the eventual placement of multifamily units on the property the feature land use map shows the area as low residential and adjacent properties are residential in nature I want to point out kind of a condition of the site that kind of inhibits support for multifamily and that would be that North Elm Street and North Locust Street are couplet streets which are act which are regional thoroughfares throughout the city northwest thoroughfares they are highly trafficked in multifamily units for this property will be accessed off in Talaferro within their site plan and no direct access off of Elm Street Elm Street is a southbound one-way street more intensity and vehicle trips are on the south side of University but this also these are streets that are used as thoroughfares north and south the site plan indicates that there are two two story units having four units total per each building and one one story unit having a four-bedroom multifamily unit these are the submitted elevations indicated from the applicants we've worked with the applicants to upgrade and make sure that these are high quality presidential character in style and care and and in composition they are walk-up units to towards the rear the face the front facing the Elm Street will be the front facade here we did review a landscape plan an alternative buffer plan for the use of a two-sided wood fence and that was approved by staff instead of a 20- foot landscape buffer required against the adjacent single-family area to the east considerations the NRBU 12 zoning was established in 2002 and anticipated multifamily development proposed multifamily units are consistent and scale and density of surrounding properties North Elm and Locust are material thoroughfares that inhibit low residential patterns the approach the proposed multifamily complies with screening methods are required by chapter 13 of the DDC and the proposal complies with the criteria listed for approval of SUPs as outlined in your staff report so with that again public notifications were made with 21 92 and again zero respondents we did hold a neighborhood meeting and there were questions from a handful of staff that the applicant fielded and provided information to to residents with that staff is recommending approval subject to some conditions that the SUP substantially complies with the submitted site plan building elevations and landscape plan any questions please commissioner Ros sell I think this be a quick question what is low residential patterns is second last side he said it inhibits low residential patterns it's not really with that vernacular really the intent was to show that this is a unique condition in the city where we have single-family lots backing up to one side of either of a thoroughfare there are residential low residential patterns that follow the future land use map being that they are neighborhood context they have residential streets they have entry and exit from the thoroughfares and then kind of circulate through to other thoroughfares it's difficult to apply in cutting in context this condition of in between the streets as low residential thank you Commissioner Briegel thank you chair okay y'all know how much I super love infill like this is this is great because it's so quirky piece of land and I'm trying to think I mean I drive past it all the time Ross do you have any pictures of what's there currently I'm I'm like racking my brain trying to think of what there is a a wood structured single-family home that's right here I went knocked on the door to make sure that you know they knew I was going to place a sign on the property outside that it is you know a there are multiple kind of rental structures small multi-family small single-family units surrounding this corner of the street but the property itself is just that one unit just that one and well that unit that will disappear yes what where's I'm just carry where's Dan's meat market is that to the north I 'm just trying to like yeah yeah okay that's great thanks Commissioner Taylor a quick question that might be more of an engineering question why doesn't tell if tell you Pharaoh connect to locust it's we own the land city owns the land it's even got pavement there but there's like a little barrier right there it's been there for a long time what I was told by our streets department is that telepharo dead ends I believe somewhere out in this area right here reason being I mean it's been closed for over what I was told over 30 years and I think the reason I was told was that residents back then complained about the amount of cut-through traffic along that narrow street and so to sit and decided to close that to prevent that cut-through traffic it is very narrow sorry Commissioner Bruegel thank you chair is it open on Bolivar there yes and that's a two-way street so okay that's that's the answer I can give you probably more of an alley yeah yeah the pavement did go through but there's there are posts with a little metal you know guardrail barrier across there like some at some point we closed the street so just I just have a comment I like the project along with Commissioner Bruegel to see the infill it's something I've championed on this Commission over and over again so it's nice to see that redevelopment and it's nice to see the buildings and that may be a design criteria up against the street versus the parking lot like the unit that's further to the south there so I think it's going to be a much nicer look and more of a residential feel and the final comment and I may have misunderstood in your presentation I thought you said it the only access was going to be on Tyler Farrow but it looks like there's also an approach that comes back out fire and emergency and trash truck exit so is it going to be one of those that's gated or or it's just it's probably it's an exit only we have signs on it may have signs and hooded okay curves okay so the only entrance is off to Farrell but it has an exit out right to Elm okay I misunderstood your in your presentation on the delineation there any other questions for staff thank you Ross again just to reiterate our item D which is Buckeyes which is ADP 16 - 0 0 0 2 that is going to be continued tonight so we will not have a presentation here at work session and we will only open that item in our public session in council chambers and then we will continue that item for anybody who's going to be here to see that item it will not be heard tonight so seeing nothing else on our work session agenda I'm going to close our work session at 620 and we'll try to reconvene at 630 in council chambers thank you [Music] now we're good good evening and welcome to our planning and zoning Commission meeting for March the 9th it is 634 and this meeting has been duly posted and we have a quorum present and I'm gonna call our meeting to order and our first item of business is going to be to stand for the US and the Texas flag Texas flag to be Texas one state under God one individual our next item of business is going to be to consider our minutes and I'd like that and then two separate motions one for the tenth and a separate motion and we'll take that one first Commissioner Taylor I move approval of the February 10th planning zoning Commission minutes Commissioner Beck I take the motion okay we have a first and a second any discussion seeing none I'll call for a vote on the board motion carries six zero with one recuse Commissioner Dudowitz yes chair thank you I approve the minutes February 24th okay I have a second Commissioner Bribble I'll second okay the first and second any discussion on minutes seeing none call for a vote on the board that Adam passes six zero with one recuse that moves us to our consent agenda Commissioner Beck motion we approve the consent agenda okay Commissioner Dudowitz I second we have a first and a second any discussion seeing none call for a vote on the board the motion carries seven zero that will move us to our public hearing section for this evening as a point of order on tonight's agenda item D which is ADP 16 - 0 0 0 2 I'm going to change the order and I'm going to open that item for public hearing at this time and we are going to continue that public hearing until a date certain of March the 23rd that will move us to our next item back on the order of our agenda which is going to be item a and I'm going to open the public hearing for z 16 - 0 0 1 B I'm going to turn that over to Manal for a presentation thank you chair person strange at this point if you would like to call the applicant to make their presentation the applicant here to speak please say your name and address for the record please and chairman members of the Commission my name is Greg Edwards I'm with Greg Edwards in engineering services we're at 1621 Amanda Court pondered Texas basically our clients are interested in developing a townhome project at this location fortunately for us and in meeting with the staff it appears to be in it appears to be consistent with the city 's master plans and we appreciate your consideration and recommendation on to City Council and Javier Rodriguez with the owner is here also if you have any questions any questions for the applicant thank you thank you sir at this time we'll call ask Julie Wyatt to make the staff presentation please all right just a summary of the the request before you the request is to rezone the subject property outlined in yellow from NR 2 to NR MU the location is at the corner of Bonnie Bray and Windsor staff analyzed the request and due to site site constraints regarding a gas well as well as flood plain in addition to conformance with the Denton development plan I'm sorry the didn't plan 2030 and the criteria for approval in the Denton development code staff recommends approval of this request any questions for staff thank you Julie this is a public hearing anyone that would like to speak on this item is welcome to come forward for this item or feature items that will hear tonight please fill out a card and when you approach you'll have four minutes and please have your name and address again public this is a public hearing and anyone who would like to speak on this item is welcome to approach approach and please give us your name and address and when you're finished if you will get with they have cards I think right outside the door mr. chairman I thought represent my name is Jose Montoya I live at 3008 Beverly Drive I work at Immaculate Conception Church and school and I have several questions regarding the application in the report that mr. it would just presented site history they quoted that there had been no proposed plans for that site there was a proposal for another church there so that is a not in consideration there the proposed site also mentions the gas well not too long ago we had a burst in that gas line close to 35 we are right across the street from that gas well the major building there is the elementary school building okay less than 500 feet the additional construction which goes from the two to four homes per acre now is 30 to 40 townhomes the additional not only traffic but the people traffic in that area would increase multiple times that in conjunction with the activities that North Lakes has on Saturdays and Sundays and weekends would additionally increase the traffic flow we have four major events that are taking place during the school year I mean during the year that being December 8th December 12th where we have over 1,000 people coming to church and the traffic flow we occupy every parking space every handicapped space across the street in the city property of the park and by the well and at North Lakes we are a community of over 4,800 families the additional homes would also increase the I would like to call it family use of our facilities which we currently have with our neighbors to the west of us who have jumped the fence that we put up who to play basketball on our courts to play on the children's playground and have broken that on several instances and we have no recourse but to say homeowners Association can you help us out that's not our problem we also have the water flow that's coming off of that development the water flow is of concern we are in a flood plain we are taking water as we speak with even this rain the increased water flow that is mentioned in the report of going to the sewer okay is a concern of the water flow I know that it's easy to tap into the Windsor sewer and water line but you're not looking at the downflow of that sewer would end up plugging up our sewer which runs uphill halfway to the school and then down to suit to Windsor I would ask the following questions will there be a street placed on the property and if so where is the egress sites on that will there be a sewer line placed along Bonnie Bray that would help that development as well as us we already have the flow from the West coming on to Windsor and the new buildings that are currently there this would again put a strain on our sewer lines which are now going to Windsor we have no other way to get rid of our switch will there be a traffic light due to the increased traffic at the corner of that intersection Windsor Bonnie Bray we have a fire department who oftentimes has to run through there and traffic does not allow it to go through will there be a light place at the intersection let me conclude by saying that the gas pumps across the property are of concern to us if there's going to be commercial pipes or store thank you for your time a question for you yes are you representing the school this evening both okay I'm looking at our notification map at this time we didn't have a comment from you either for against are you indicating that you're against the project or do you have just concerns against okay any other questions I had it on there sorry Commissioner back thank you chair your concern about the sewage that it's a legitimate concern how is it functioning now is it doing properly what it's supposed to be doing are you having problems with it now we have to shut down one of our facility bathrooms in the chapel because we couldn't get the sewage to go uphill it has to go uphill to a level area go across about 200 feet and then slow back down we are in the flood there was this just one incident or does this tend to occur when it rains on it's been going on many many years we finally had to shut it down three years ago okay thank you the only the only sewer line that comes up if I'm mistaken would be to as far as the Academy store and it stops there I have one other question for you Commissioner Roselle thank you chair previously this I don 't know if staff can speak to this we had a capacity looked into capacity when we're looking at the fry Street Apartments has capacity been looked into in the road impact for traffic light and or the sewage sewage capacity of construction I know we're in the zoning process so it probably hasn't been done yet that type of detail would come at building permit okay thank you all right actually at platting when it comes to that points already done and then we we end up having to absorb the additional sewage well we'll have an opportunity to review it at preliminary plat to approve whether the project will proceed forward or not this is be just strictly for the zoning only at this time thank you thank you sir again this a public hearing is there anyone else that would like to speak on this item tonight seeing none I'll close the public hearing and the chair would entertain a motion Commissioner Tyler thank you chair just a few questions kind of follow up questions for staff first this might be a question to legal do we or or Julie do we know if we are going to reach a super majority threshold with the property to the south being in opposition we'll have to take a look at that calculation in time for the City Council and then my next two questions are regarding infrastructure and as you said the fine details of infrastructure will be done at platting right but I think we can we can generally answer some kind of broader questions here so there's a concern of traffic is there any do you have any estimation or perhaps Earl has some estimation of the traffic count now like well how much traffic goes on Windsor and Bonnie Bray today and how many roughly units would be allowed on the property I can answer to the units the density for it's it's five to six acres if we just look at five acres it's it would be 12 dwelling units per acre so it could be up to 60 units I don't know if they could actually do that due to so much of the property actually being in the flood zone but but if NRME would allow the 12 units per acre with regards to traffic you know a single-family lot generates 10 trips per day so I mean the maximum number of trips were talking probably about 400 ships per day 40 based on 40 lots if they can physically fit 40 lots within this the confinements of this property with the floodplain and all Windsor and Bonnie Bray are secondary materials four lane roadways and they have a capacity of about I'd say about 25,000 ships per day for each road way I don't have the current traffic counts on me but we're nowhere near that so right now we'd be looking at as its zone now this could this property could generate up to maybe 200 trips a day and based on 20 lines yeah and then with the new zoning you might be looking at apartments are slightly lower trips per day I believe than in houses so you'd be looking at maybe five or six hundred trips per day but you have a total capacity of 25,000 on basically both roads so total capacity of 50,000 cars today so at what point would this this doesn 't sound like it would be enough to push us to the point of getting a traffic light seems like they will cost participate we foresee this being a signal ized intersection just because it's an intersection of two secondary arter ials so they will cost participate their proportionate share towards the signal there okay but then this this isn't the project that puts it over there this is this development will not warrant a signal at this at this intersection however and then another my other questions are regarding sewer we've had a neighbor basically saying that they're having trouble with their sewer line having to run uphill and then downhill to get to the street where what part of the sewer line is the city responsible for and what part would just be private ownership there is an existing 10 inch sewer line along Windsor which this development will connect to I'm not familiar with the sewer situation of the church but if it's going uphill sounds like it's some sort of pump pumping it uphill to get to this gravity line this development drain towards Windsor so they should be able to gravity and towards that the city only owns basically the sewer line at the road we own those sewer line on Windsor and depending on how this development is laid out if there's a public street system to serve the interior of this development to serve each lot then the sewer line and water line within that public street system will also be publicly owned so only with the roadway only if there's a public street though thank you I think one other question Commissioner Dudowitz yeah my question is Julie could put up the slate zone and zoning map that we saw in work session so that we're all clear thank you the property that's outlined in red south of the what we're talking about yes that is owned the it currently is MRMU which is what we're asking for that property to be sold correct correct you know the Catholic Church is in that orange area correct so the property that that is owned currently they were asking me rezoned has the same impact on those streets and street sign and sewer if it was to be developed and I understand there's sale there's a for sale signs on that property now as it furnishes both Windsor and Bonnie Bray so we're going to have that you know both properties are going to have the same issues and they have to be addressed at Platting yes all right thank you Commissioner Oselle I motion to approve Z 16000 1b Commissioner Tyler second first and second a discussion Commissioner Bruegel thank you chair Mr. Montoya thank you for being here this evening I hear a lot of your concerns I really do is specifically the the concern about the gas well so close to your property and so close to what could be a residential neighborhood the families with children and and I brought that up during our work session and I encouraged city staff to to get on top of this sooner rather than later at this time we're looking specifically at the zoning requests and all these other concerns that you have which I share with you we will have an opportunity when we see a proposed plat for this to go over all of those issues so I want you to know I heard you tonight that's going to be at a later step though so just so we're clear any other requests to speak seeing none have a first and a second and I'll call for our vote on the board motion carries 7-0 at this time I'm going to open our next item for public hearing Z 15 - 0 0 3 4 and I will call on the applicant Mr. Chairman and members of the Commission my name is Lyle Drescher thank you my name is Lyle Drescher I am the chairman of the facilities construction committee for the United Way of Denton County we are under contract subject to zoning to purchase about five acres of property the sophomore Street and just to the west of Woodrow Lane that five acres is currently owned by the Dent on Housing Authority but I've already mentioned that it is under contract to us subject to zoning our desire is in order to continue to expand the services of United Way of Denton County and to better serve the community we just simply need to expand into a larger facility and our plans are to build approximately 11,000 square feet of office space and auditorium space for different community United Way agency activities we have a staff here our architect is here so we're here to open to answer any questions that you might have during the hearing and would also like to offer my appreciation to the planning staff who's been very helpful to us because we don 't do this very often and they've been very helpful in cutting guidance through the process there's a Commissioner Hussbuth you have a question for the applicant yes mr. sir is it Dresdner Dresher all right let me get it back in front me bear with me so Ross could you help me with the site location the aerial photo please sir can you so my question is the entrance or the access to the property on Moore Street what studies have been done or what's the proposed better question has the access been vetted for fire for fire entrance to the property exit with whatever those specifications are in order for it to be changed from residential to EC1 it would need to be able to be accessed by a fire and so I'm just curious if that's been vetted or researched no it hasn 't been that's we're looking at that as being part of the elements of the site plan process and so as soon as if the zoning is approved then we will start addressing those issues with our engineer and architect and the city of Denton to be sure we meet all the fire fire code requirements ingress and egress requirements traffic requirements drainage requirements and so forth so to follow up if I may do you have some level of assurance that that is able to be achieved if it's zoned if it's rezoned have you have you vetted it at all to see if that's even an option the way it's currently laid out for it to be structured such that it fits those requirements or meets those requirements yes we've had some initial conversations with our consultants and their conversations with the city of Denton we feel pretty comfortable that we can fill a usable facility on that on that property and and be a good neighborhood neighbor to the to the neighborhood around us thank you please approach the Kelly Morgan Nelson Morgan architects thank you at this stage we've just kind of going through some preliminary studies of that with this just being zoning we haven't gone into a detailed study those will be addressed during the building permit phase but there's no problem with meeting all the requirements of the fire we look at that on a daily basis and this site being accessed from or should have no problem meeting those right and if I may and so thank you chair so you just so you understand my concern it's it's almost before we put the cart before the horse I want to make sure you know there's been some that it not saying detail vetting but vetting all the same that that we don't get to a point to where we're we're backed into a corner if you will so that's I was thank you yes that's correct any other questions for the applicant thank you sir in our rules of procedure you can have one other speaker for the applicant representative if there's someone else that would like to present on behalf of the applicant good evening I'm Sherry McDade at 1225 Wilson Street here in Denton I am the CEO for the Housing Authority and we own the land I just want to let the Commission know that the Housing Authority is really excited about this partnership with United Way we have a office building but it's a little bit too small and we would like to better serve the clients that we have now and we just don't have enough space and so we're partnering with United Way to have some space in that building to be able to have meetings to provide services for our clients I think that the building and United Way themselves will be a great addition to the community in the neighborhood and bringing in the services that they offer for the community thank you thank you if you will please fill out a card for us as well appreciate that at this time I will call on excuse me I'm sorry I apologize commissioner D utta was just for clarification will we have the opportunity to readdress or ask questions of the applicant after this point I believe we can ask them to approach again yes thank you thank you for the clarification at this time I'm going to call on Ross Culberson to come and make the staff presentation for us please thank you chair the slide before you indicates the details and staffs analysis and presentation of this project to you the request is for an NR from rezoning from an NR4 to ECI in employment commercial industrial the applicant owner as indicated with the United Way of Denton and Denton Housing Authority as current owner location as you have seen is off of Moore streets within the two two vacant properties they're shown staffs finding indicates that ECI would allow for the applicants use of office community services it's is in proximity to other community service uses around in the neighborhood particularly the Denton Housing Authority facility and the Martin Luther King jr. recreational facility that's in the area to service didn't community in this area staff finds that the request for the rezoning is consistent with the future land use map and any subject site design is indicated by the staff the applicant and the architect will be scrutinized at the building permit level for screening and appropriateness next to single- family so with that staff is recommending approval of this request to you any questions for staff I see none this time on board thank you Ross again this is a public hearing anyone who would like to speak on this item please come forward state your name and address and fill out a card at this time yes a public hearing anyone who'd like to speak on this item please come forward my name is Ronnie Hanson live at 1700 Morris Street we have two pieces of residential property that are facing Morris that our houses will be back up to this this project I bought the property approximately six seven years ago knowing that it was residential property behind me now it looks like they want to change it up and build a office building back here and let me explain I have no problem against progress and a United Way having a building to me I have a lot of unknowns there's a lot of unknown variables I don't know exactly what this property is going to be used for and I'm hard of hearing so if somebody has said something that that I'm asking and they've already answered question I apologize but I don't like the fact that they have the entrance on on Morris Street and it's going to slow down traffic we have an elementary school we have a recreation center down the street from there whenever school starts up at the first year I have cars lined up and down my street and and with access on to more Street I don't know how much employees are going to be there I don't know what benefits there as far as their auditorium and that they're going to have people there what the traffic's gonna bring I don't know if they're changing the zoning for this now what happens in the future they want to change the zoning and have homeless people living back there or they want to have a soup kitchen these are my concerns currently right now far as about six months ago I lost two trees in my backyard due to the runoff coming back there it softened up the dirt my trees fell over in the backyard they're going to have a parking lot is it going to make it's going to make matters worse when my backyard soaking wet all the time are they going to build a parking lot whether it's going to be parking lots shining in my backyard and and in my backyard there's just these all- known variables the last meeting I went to they said well you don't if they don't sell to us they're going to sell to somebody else and you don't know what you 're going to have behind you I really don't know what I'm going to have behind me now because they've already changed they're changing this from residential to industrial they can change it to something else and quite frankly if somebody else would buy the property they'd most likely want to have my property to have access to Moore Street and so I just have a lot of unknown variables and until I get these answer these questions I'm not happy with it there's just there's too many blanks that I'm not familiar with thank you sir do you speak against this assignment I repose this we didn't get any response when the notices were sent there was no reply so just for our records so I'll make sure you're against and I need to find out which pieces of property you own if we can get staff to pull up our notification map and if you'll show us where your one or two properties are located specifically so we can take those into account yes on this one right there yeah just one property this one property yeah both those were they can you clarify were they two properties or one I own the one property and somebody else owns a property next door to me yes okay thank you for speaking and will you fill out a card for us please I think they have some on the table outside and then may have one over here at the end of the dice for us okay thank you thank you sir against a public hearing so is there anyone else that would like to speak on this item at this time seeing none I will close the public hearing Commissioner Taylor thank you chair so I think it's a I've heard a little bit about what the United Way of Denton County is planning on doing at this site and I think it's a really good location and I want to just thank you for all the service you provide to the county and I also appreciate that it's a partnership with the Denton affordable housing coalition I do have some some concerns and questions regarding the potential intensity of this use this is employment center industrial it's a light industrial office and light industrial type use and it is what is along Woodrow but this makes a very stark transition across the back fence even with the veget ative barrier even with the row of trees and shrubs you're going to have you know a backyard of swimming pool playset that kind of thing and then across the way and allowed use will be heavy vehicle servicing light manufacturing even though those aren't your proposed uses this rezone would allow those uses and if anything were to happen in the future you know the if with you know whether it's 10 years or 50 years from now do we'd have this collision of potential collision of uses and so I would like to find a way to allow the office space and community services that you're proposing without putting potentially light industrial across the back fence from a neighborhood and and I'm looking through the allowed uses and I see even in it so in order to prevent what might be referred to as spot zoning we don't want to introduce a new zoning category in the area so we have neighborhood residential and then kind of this employment center but those those both are families of zoning and just looking at the just looking at the allowed uses it appears that office space and community service are both allowed in like an NRM you which is a neighborhood residential mixed use while very few of the potentially nox ious industrial printing manufacturing so forth uses are allowed in like an NRM you category so either if and I think this will take a little research but I would propose that we look at either NRM you or perhaps if that doesn't work ecc or another kind of intermediate use that isn't as industrial as the uses along Woodrow and I I believe this would require us to table this and do that research and hopefully within maybe two or four weeks come back I don't know what the timeframe the fastest timeframe that could this could be done I have to give an opinion on that if the applicant is comfortable with the discussion that the planning and zoning commissioner commissioner teller that you're having with them then they would have to come back with a revised application or a new application requesting an alternative zoning district to accommodate their use or uses but that in this case that could be as simple as you know verifying that NRM you is appropriate or ecc or one of those other uses is appropriate correct that's correct we would we did evaluate the just to iterate we did evaluate the ecc component however the recommendation that staff has that is favorable to recommend favorably for changing zoning to ECI was primarily because of the existing land existing zoning pattern that is to the north to the east and to the south of the property so it was a comprehensive zoning designation that we intended to do we also looked at the parameters set before us in the Denton Development Code as it relates to setbacks landscape buffer requirements and existing top ography on the site and that is why we thought we thought that this would indeed be a favorable zoning case a favorable zoning category excuse me because through revitalization or redevelopment because such a large area is already zoned EC I that this would be a logical one extension of the existing ECI and secondly it would be more comprehensively developed should redevelopment occur that was the intent of that was the staff analysis associated with this however we would be more than happy to review other zoning categories to see the or to analyze the appropriateness of other districts and associated land uses excuse me I didn't have my microphone on if the question is looking to do that as a whole then the next available time for it to come forward to you would be April 13th because we have some gaps in our schedule and we have to have time for the publishing of a new notice to incorporate the new zoning category Commissioner brutal thank you chair a couple of things piggybacking off of Commissioner Taylor's is it possible for us to rezone this as ECI but also have a condition or an overlay such that whatever is built on this property is more of an office park and less industrial or have an overlay so that if ownership should change hands at a later date from United Way to someone else you all move locations because you're doing so many great things you have to expand even more right that there's some sort of overlay that then this zoning would maybe revert back or something is there is another was how how can we meet the needs of the United Way and also protect the neighborhood from any few decades down the road any sort of conflict between what is an NR for an ECI so I'll call on staff to get an opinion on that yeah you may be able to use a residential protection overlay which is consistent with what you're looking to do which is protected decent property uses that are residential when you have a commercial property or parcel come in you would have to notice that individually you can do it in conjunction with the change in the underlying zoning but it would still have to be tabled for a future time so that we can notice it properly would we be able to get that to come back to us so quickly I mean with the staff hours can we can we turn it over that quickly and see it again in just another month I don't want to delay this forever no we absolutely understand this sensitivity sensitivity associated with the project that United Way is pushing through they have their own milestones that they have to meet as well in terms of their timelines on their project plan so we complete we're very cognizant of that however we do have statutory requirements as it relates to notification processes and procedures so we have to meet certain timelines at this point we also have to address are we looking at a different zoning category so we would have to understand what the wish of the Commission is based on that we would then reanalyze other zoning districts to assess the applicability or cohes iveness associated so it's it is a difficult one when you talk about changing the zoning so then I guess I would be more and pardon me for interrupting but I guess I would be more in favor of whatever could get us to that end goal more quickly what if it's if it's considering a different zoning classification that can get us back in mid-April then let's do that if it's a simple re-noticing within the possibility of an overlay a residential overlay as you stated then I would be more in favor of that because I want this to happen but I also want to protect the neighborhood so and then I have another question after you guys kind of hash that out so we will we will revisit the dates as it relates to notification and we will also have to have a very quick meeting with United Way to get their feedback as well because I'm sure they have specific or intended future uses of the property expansion programs but it would be specific to their auditorium and their office uses and their needs regardless whether we look at a separate category of an overlay or an overlay district we would still have to meet those notification requirements so we are minimum talking I would say a 30-day setback at the least at this point another question then I guess for the applicant there there were no official notifications that came back to us either for or against this this proposed rezone but I understand that you all had a community meeting and I was wondering if someone could maybe kind of give me a synopsis on that I know we had some backup materials about that as well but if you could just kind of walk me through like well how you know how did that go what do the people think where you know what's the neighborhood think of this yes I think in your your packet there were I think a couple of signed up sheets and one notification we held two public meetings in the month of January one we held at the Martin Luther King Recreation Center and the invite list was basically we used the the the buffer the buffer description where you had the the the 200 and 500 foot buffer zone and we use that kind of it as an invitational list to be sure we we tried to invite as many people in that particular area that could be affected one way or the other by by what we were proposing to do and we just at both meetings we just outlined what we were going to do and what we're planning to do and what we were how we were working with the Denton Housing Authority to make that work and then we also went to the Sedna neighborhood meeting for the month of January and made the same presentation and just addressed any questions questions from that group that night and I was at both meetings and they went well I think they were we had plenty of good questions that were that were I think addressed and addressed everyone's satisfaction the best we possibly could knowing what we knew at that that particular time subject to going through the process of zoning and things like that and you feel it was a pretty good turnout I mean the weather was decent and it was you know whether was extremely good and and I would say yeah in the neighborhood meetings that I've been in I've attended I think that it was a good it was they were well attended okay we always wish there were more people attending always as you all do too but but we get what we we have coming out to to make those and since those community meetings have you had anyone you know neighbors talk to neighbors and oh did you know United Waste doing this has anyone contacted you with further questions or concerns about this to my knowledge we haven't okay because I'm pretty sure that the CEO would have you know contacted us and try to address them thank you yeah I have excuse me mr. chair may I have one I have one question about the proposed change in a zoning district the the proposed zoning district the ECI proposed zoning district is consistent with the land use plan if we go to a different zoning district that is not consistent with the land use plan what happens to us we're not planning to do this but what happens to us if we would if that property would sell or or the uses would change and we would know all of a sudden be not consistent with your land use plan how do we we would be we would have an issue then as the owner if you choose if if indeed we did follow the path of changing the zoning district to another category other than the proposed ACI and if an alternative zoning district was approved on the site then the land use is permitted permitted uses within that category would be applicable to that specific site or to this subject property it would not create a nonconformity in terms of uses it would create and I want to use this term loosely now the nonconformity as it relates to compliance with the comprehensive plan. Commissioner Hatchb eth. Thank You Chair yeah so all great points I would like to see where we fall where those I looked at the the categories I think it's a fit again but I I'm curious that the one that Devon proposed I think it's a good fit I have some other questions but I can email email those directly to the applicant applicant to try to get some of those stuff because it's down the road some of those things but also I was curious about mr. is it Hanson is that right yes sure is he okay Matt asked you another question if you could would you mind please coming back to the podium please yes sir so understanding your overall position you are amen able to better said your concerns if those are those are satisfied you're okay with the property I mean the the proposing what's proposed oh overall it's just there's you have a couple of concerns is that am I framing that right yes and no I mean I think everyone of you guys had a five acres behind your house and all of a sudden that was on for residential and they're going to change it to what they're going to wind up changing into I don't think you guys would be too happy either I don't see why just this small part of property is sticking into to commercial or industrial and I mean as you can tell it's it's encroaching is crouching right now currently in the side street next to there probably half the houses are rental properties and now once this goes up the people that are trying to sell their house and they've got this warehouse in the back they may not get the money that they want to and they have to turn it in rental property and that's what I may have to wind up doing because I'm not quite sure if I'll be able to sell my house when there's got a big office complex behind me so I like I say I know United Way I know it's a good deal it's great that if you can get a lot of nonprofit organizations together it would streamline things and make things better it's just I don't like it that is it's into an industrial thing it was facing Woodrow I would be entirely okay with it but with it coming out onto Moore Street right there from me with the school school and the recreation center and the traffic and all the unknown variables like I say they're changing it from residential to industrial what did they change it from something else after that and and now me and my next-door neighbor have a small piece of property it goes industrial goes commercial nobody wants to buy a tiny little piece of commercial property and I'm stuck you know I'm stuck with the house that I can't sell and then I have to turn in rental property and then all the other houses turn in right rental property and then the value of the property goes down so okay all right thank you thank you thank you Commissioner Rizzo thank you chair excuse me I'm for this project I would like to see it happen and talking about the protection of the neighborhood to the West I think is important and valuable from what was brought up so far that I have some questions and looking at the the uses for an MR in our MU an office building under 25,000 square feet seems to be aligned with that but as Commissioner Taylor pointed out I think we get into spot zoning to that point in it and in what a mustard colored and blue map here we're gonna put in red right in the middle so I'm not necessarily in favor of that but legal said something about a resident protection overlay for commercial use is that for when you say commercial or you just for clarification are you referring to the use or the zoning for a resident protection overlay well that that would be the the provision that we would have to research further to make sure that this could apply to this property so we don't know if a resident protection overlay would even work if we approved an ECI zoning correct well what we would do would we would table this or continue it until a date certain which would be April the 13th and at the same time on that same agenda we would have the overlay considered as well without we can actually put that that could be an option the overlay well that's what we need to research further generally the residential protection overlay is for the purpose of protecting those adjacent properties that are residential and I just am not sure if it applies at this time to ECI as the underlying zoning so we do need to do further research on that so that brings me to a thought that we could table this for a month and what I would be a proponent of potentially might not even be an option and now we're back to an NRMU which doesn't seem to be al igning with the land use or an ECI again or maybe an ECC but again an ECC would I don't know if it aligns with with our our future land use if we overlay that it clearly is employment center so I'm not I'm not sure about tabling this for another month if it's going to bring us back to this same the same position that that's more questions than answers I understand but that's some of my thoughts that I have right now Commissioner Taylor thank you chair I just wanted to address some of Commissioner Roselle's comments so since there's already a large area of existing EC category zoning and a large area of NR neighborhood residential category zoning those are the two families that we could we could use if we went to like a CMG or regional type zoning then you'd have you'd be introducing a whole new family of zoning but NRMU is is considered compatible part of the neighborhood residential zoning so to go to have this NRMU it wouldn't be like introducing a new zoning category it would be a slightly more intense subcategory of NR and a more perhaps I feel a more appropriate buffer between single-family homes and the more industrial use and so I the more I'm the more I'm looking at I just actually thought of this while well the public hearing was going on and the more I look at it I do feel like NRMU would be the most appropriate category because it would allow the office use up to 25,000 square feet which is approximately twice as large as the current plan and community service you know and any ancill ary use to those two primary uses and in regarding the future land use map we intentionally have those gradient areas at borders because we know the borders are a little fuzzy and we need transitions especially when you go industrial or you know kind of an industrial use to residential use you want a little buffer in there somewhere so we might want to revisit the future land use map you know in the future to to move this over a hundred yards but I think it isn't like we're going into the middle of a future land use zone and sticking something completely different in it. I'm gonna make some comments as well I understand there's a lot of different opinions on this property and I think some of the questions that came up when a work session about accessibility off of Moore Street if it will work for fire and and utilities have been addressed in a very informal manner but knowing the individuals involved I feel very confident that those criteria can be met with this. I also feel like since there is already existing ECI and it already backs up to this neighborhood to the south and to the east that this is a very appropriate zoning I don't see some of their concerns the criteria with a an 11,000 square foot building on a five acre site that's going to be roughly 215,000 square feet where we're down at essentially 5% or certainly less than 10% of a building going on that large of a piece of property and I do know that we'll also have at least I believe a requirement of a 30-foot buffer against that neighborhood and so while I do appreciate all the other commissioners concerns I feel this is an appropriate zoning and I know that there's probably some time constraints that this organization is working under and I personally would like to see this this case move forward so those are gonna be my comments and I'm gonna call on staff. One avenue that perhaps might be available in order to ensure consistency with the comprehensive plan to show cohesiveness with the zoning districts is in fact to introduce an ADP which shows advanced screening mechanisms or advanced landscaping to protect physically protect the adjacent neighborhood so when I say that I speak to and I'm not tying any the applicant town to this but I'm speaking of potentially a masonry screen wall with specific tree plantings offset a few feet on center having that distance or that separation of the buildings enhancing the landscaping where the visibility corridor is a little stark these are just examples of using site design and tying that site design to an alternative development plan as it comes forward because staffs only concern we don't we don't whole heartedly disagree with with the Commission and we completely understand the concerns of the Commission as well as the surrounding property owners but if we can use an avenue that enables the longevity and expansion program for United Way because that is a huge possibility that's in front of us right now what we have is a built-out plan but there is an opportunity or potential for that to increase however if we can use the site design mechanism which is an enhanced mechanism to introduce these protective measures would the Commission be amenable to that this is just a thought or a suggestion from staff at what point would we add that to our recommendation I'm gonna lean towards Jennifer de Curtis on this but I think we could come back for an individual consideration item fairly expeditiously once we sit down with the applicant and bring that forward so the Commissioner Roselle thank you and I'm not trying to jump in front of Commissioner Burgl I apologize but is the ADP done at the zoning or the site plan can you clarify when we can yes the ADP is a site planning function the intent of an ADP is to have enhanced site design criteria it is not a variance procedure but in a it enables an applicant or a developer to use specific design criteria if they can't comply completely with the Denton Development Code in this instance we would use it to enhance this site as in as a screening anesthetic mechanism to protect the adjacent neighborhoods should everybody be amenable to it Commissioner Burgl and as that's fine question there was all not a big deal so but I hear that and my concern is not with United Way backing up to the neighborhood it's 50 years down the road when they expand and sell this property could then that who I mean we have if we had the ADP in place then couldn't the next property owner just kind of bulldoze over the the you know the the buffer zone and all the trees that we had because they wanted to build their the ADP to the applicant and I don't want to put any more burdens on the applicant you know it's this it's the next it's the next property owner that I want to make sure is still compatible with the neighborhood I think what might be an option if I could is the NRMU designation which you talked about the transition from residential to commercial that's what it's for and then having the ADP act almost as an overlay to restrict it further with conditions for the applicant is it are we allowed to if we can't do the over the traditional overlay once I researched that topic okay so can we is NRMU considered a less restrictive zoning category than ECI and can we can we recommend NRMU tonight because it's less restrictive and just move forward with that do you want to answer that question because traditionally I do not I am not a proponent of doing that without certain things falling into place because I don't want to get into the practice of just down zoning I guess at the Commission without proper notice so generally I would make them come back and put it on the agenda probably legally could we do that that's my question I am I understand and I and I feel I think traditionally you've done that okay so I certainly don't want to disenfranchise anyone I think it is a gray area legally and that you have traditionally done that I don't know if it's appropriate in this case but I will leave that to your determination okay and before I ask the applicant if they would maybe be okay with that what this is eventually gonna have to go to City Council what fail-safes could be put in place between now and when they go to City Council that staff and the applicant could work together with so that our concerns when it gets to City Council have already been addressed to protect the neighborhood 50 years down the road like what what could what can staff do you could not recommend an ADP tonight in order to go to council you would have to have that as a separate item and the ADP though it's a good suggestion doesn't address my concern of decades down the road it's putting more a bigger burden on the United Way which I don't want to do I want to protect the neighborhood when when and if this property sells many many years later and the ADP I don't think meets that addresses that in the way I would like for it to so so things like so if we approved the ECI rezoned tonight what sorts of recommendations could we make to City Council that they could implement when they when United Way goes to them is there is there anything now it's just considered a straight underlying zoning whether or not we can add the overlay or whether or not you want to add an ADP those are the only options really to you can't put conditions on your underlying zoning you just can't so you have to use one of those other avenues or a different tool to do that and we just don't have that notice tonight it's the problem okay and then I guess I have a question of the applicant then so you're hearing these concerns what would you be amenable to an NRM you rezone since it is in the same as Commissioner Taylor said the same family of zoning for residential approach I don't know because I don't know what's in it your your project is in it you could build your project in NRM you I think so pretty sure I can tell you our discussions with the cat with our consultant is that we talked a lot about drainage we talked a lot about the protection of the neighborhood we can you show that pull up that aerial and because I can talk a little bit you can see what I'm talking about there is there's a significant amount of tree canopy right in the middle of that tract of land you see it right there and then with the required setbacks of our building that building is going to be tucked in behind those trees with the idea that we are our intent is to save every tree that we possibly can subject to having to do something to to handle the drainage and the detention requirements it may that may be required when we get to that point but that building is going to be pretty much in the in the middle of that tract of land in the skinny part there to the east of those trees with the idea that we're going to protect that that tree buffer plus the the setback and the landscape buffer that we're also already required to do so we fully intend to meet or exceed the site plan requirements from drainage landscaping lighting whatever and I and I fully believe you I really truly do this is a fantastic project and I really do want to see it go forward and I believe that that your project is not going to have a detrimental impact on the neighborhood my concern is 30 40 50 years down the road when United Way were to sell this property and and to someone else and build a bigger location elsewhere then what happens then it's it's zoned for this heavy this heavier use that I'm not sure is compatible with the neighborhood so I just want you to be clear like I'm in favor of your project I'm just thinking generations ahead what would happen to that that buffer zone we narrow we knit by this zone we do narrow the buffer zone but that buffer zone is there now wider but it will be narrower there's still going to be the the ECI next to it next to whatever might encroach upon that that property right and that's what Chairman Strange said too and I I see that I recognize that but you become the buffer for the neighborhood as opposed to commissioner Taylor is you become the buffer which makes you a benefit to the neighborhood as opposed to a potential risk in the future so it sounds like you're you need to do more research as far as NRM you being appropriate for your any plans you might have yeah because I don't thought sure we know exactly what that what what we're being sad dled with cost-wise what it does with with the layout of our of our building footprint our parking and those things that were again those were sensitive to those issues because those will impact the surrounding properties so would it would you have time to ascertain if NRM you will work for you by April 13th April 13th in approximately four weeks four and a half words the timing has been perfect up to right now we are we are scheduled to close is at the 14th of April so please approach you that way thank you all for indulging us today we're really pretty consistent on our idea and our plan we can't plan for 50 years down the road as much as the city would like that we can't tell you what somebody else may build or do with the property if 40 or 50 or 20 or 30 years we we change it we do know the zoning classification that we requested is the zoning classification that's consistent with our use it's also consistent with the future land plan for the city and as such that's why we're very you know we really need to jump start the process and not put it on hold we also are very sensitive to our neighbors and in the reason why I can tell you we're sensitive to our neighbors is we went out ahead of time to go talk to our neighbors we are going to do what we can to make a project that beautifully enhances that neighborhood but we need y'all's help in doing that we don't really have the luxury of waiting another 60 or 90 or 30 days of doing that our position is it fits within the current classification and so with all due respect and indulgence we hope that you will agree now this is just zoning so there's a lot more we're going to come before you on like what does it look like right what are we how are we buffering it what things are we doing for traffic for fire protection those are all other opportunities for us to refine our plan but we have to get to that first step so again with all due respect I would respectfully request that y'all approve the zoning and allow us to continue on the path of providing a beautiful structure it's not really in the neighborhood it's it's really on the fringe of the neighborhood but will greatly benefit our neighbors the other thing I would just throw this I was looking at and I wasn't really prepared today to talk but I was looking at the map and I was looking at the future use map and if you look at where this property is it's in our form right which is neighborhood residential four units per acre is correct so you have a lot of content permit you have a lot of potential density in that neighborhood just with houses now let's look to I guess I want to say okay so if you look right over here we can't see because I can't point right over here well this is all it if we take the logic and we continue to move forward with this well this residential neighborhoods also next to light industrial so at what point do you stop right what point do you say no but we do have a beautiful project and and we hope you'll support us but you got to follow the logic I think a little bit that our goal I think is consistent with the city and consistent with the use so again thank you so much for indulging me and give me the opportunity may have one more question for you Commissioner Hudgemith do you have a question for the applicant yes sir thank you and so I agree with everything that's said here my the one thing I've not that I think we get back to and and just as succinct as possible is we all trust United Way it's great but ignoring the fact that there is a field directly across Woodrow that's not developed there's a field across the street that's not developed Denton is going to continue to grow Denton and that part of Denton is a hotbed for growth to ignore the fact that United Way is going to keep doing great things and grow and grow and grow and at some point potentially outgrow that house that new facility would be short-sighted so looking long- term what that I get we get back to long-term what what skin in the game what assur ances that when this sells it's not going to go to something else can you give and that's where that zoning comes in because it protects the residents from the other side of the property gets developed and it's United Way is outgrown that space and it can sell it at a premium and it does the neighborhood is kind of doesn't have an opportunity to address that issue and that's that's kind of that long-term plan is really what we get hung up well there's a couple things one and again one prepared to talk today but I'll be happy to address it to the extent I can you're outstanding so if you look at the property in this shape it's a very unique shape piece of property it's five point something acres of land well one of the things is once we we get past this process you're gonna have to look at where we're putting our building right not at all relative to drainage and see my thought is I mean there's I can't talk about what a future owner may do as you know I mean you just can't bind a future owner well we could by restricting the zoning okay but future land use map again says what it says sure so looking at the property itself and the unique characteristic of the property if we put a ten or eleven thousand square foot building in it naturally it's got to go in a place because you have to parking too it's got to go in an area that is going to be consistent with where all the rest of the contour of the property is where drainage has to go and I think if you know that I think the drainage flows I'm looking east-west I think it flows west yes that yeah that ditches to the yeah so yeah northwest so we're gonna have to provide some drainage right so the building's really going to be stuck more in the back middle of the property to the east is what I would think so I think that kind of protects because what do you do with the rest of the property Charlie can be parking lot and sure no no I think so so yeah I don't know how to answer a question about the future because our goal is really not to leave the property sure okay and if you look at history United Way has been in rental space what's when did we start since the 1950s in about you know two to three thousand square foot of rental space the idea behind why we want this property so bad is we have a great relationship with the Housing Authority and it's a mutual benefit relationship so if we're able to build our project they're gonna benefit we're gonna benefit in the neighborhood well so I didn't answer your question but that's kind of what we do sometimes yeah I think it's great I think I guess my really I get to if if we could build a project and protect ourselves both why why would we not do that and that's that's kind of my thought but yeah neither here nor there I think in some respects you have to have some faith absolutely thank you I have the floor next I've heard a lot of different points and discussion tonight on this and I know everybody's passionate about their opinion and I 'm going to just come back for simplicity sake from my zoning experiences that the proposed zoning is in compliance with what the Denton plan is and there is already this same exact zoning to the south of the property and I have good faith that the applicant is going to be cognizant of the neighborhood that's their charge they're there to serve the neighbors and their community and I have full faith that they will continue to do that and with that said I'm gonna go ahead and make a motion to approve this as proposed and see where we go with it Commissioner Dudowitz I haven't said too much yet but because I'm listening and we have listened to a lot of discussion even in the work session I believe it's the proposed is consistent with the future use plan I think it works very nicely within the confines of what we're looking at here I do believe that the applicant will protect this property as best it can and then something you can think about if ever whenever 50 years from now who knows what's going to happen I mean we don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow but they could in the benefit of the community suggest in their selling process if ever they do they put restrictions on it at that point in time and it can be done it's been done it happens all the time so I second the motion thank you okay thanks for the second we have a first and second and we'll now open for discussion Commissioner Brighill thank you chair I am in support of this of this project I truly am and my concerns about the neighborhood I do not want to slow down this process so I am going to vote in favor of this because I know that you're going to bring a lot of good to the neighborhood and I'm hopeful that as we work on redoing our debt and development code in the future that we will have more options rather than this or that which neither one really kind of fit what we're trying to do so I'm sure that staff has been taking a lot of notes tonight thinking about how we can maybe better address future conflicts like this but I am going to support this project because I do think it's good I think you guys are doing a great job for the neighborhood and and as you said Commissioner Strange that it is bordered by bordered by ECI throughout and United Way is supposed to be taking care of the neighborhoods so I will be voting in support of this Commissioner Beck thank you chair and I'll be brief as I can and I do approve of this project too I'd like to see it going forward so I'm gonna just throw a crazy thing out there and this may be more legal anything is there any way to commit future PNZ's to consider the issues we've been addressing here and you're shaking your head no okay you can't find a future commission can we make any attachments to this well we'll have the minutes yeah the discussion and any time that Commissioner can always go back and listen to the hearing and see it on video and just hope we have as dedicated a PNZ then as we do now that are concerned about okay thank you okay we have a first and a second and any further discussion on this item for calling a vote seeing none I will call for a vote on the board motion carries seven zero thank you congratulations at this time I will go ahead and open the public hearing for s 15 - zero zero one eight and I'll call thank you good luck with your project let the room clear just a minute and I'll come back to it and ask for a public hearing we hit our Donnie we have opened the public hearing for s 15 - zero zero one eight and as our part of our procedure we will call on the applicant first and then a representative the absolute speak second if you'd like each one of you will have ten minutes and as you approach if you will give your name and address for the record and then we'll need a card filled out as well thank you chair commissioners city staff my name is Yolanda Voral I reside at 2201 Geneva Circle here in Denton Texas I'm the lead designer for Tim Beatty builders in Dent on and mr. Beatty is also the owner of this proposed development I'm here tonight seeking approval for a special use permit for an infill development of 2216 North Elm the property currently consists of two lots one that's vacant and the other has a single-family residence of 881 square feet that was constructed in 1946 it's seen better days the property zoning is neighborhood residential mixed-use 12 which allows us to develop the property with nine units currently the surrounding zonings are a mix of residential duplex multi- family and commercial and we feel the project will be compatible with these zonings we sent mailings to residents within 200 and 500 feet of the proposed development mr. Beatty received phone calls and positive support I received one asking if he needed a leasing agent we hosted a neighborhood meeting here in the chamber and we received input from one resident who showed concern for tree protection during the construction phase we took action by revisiting the landscape plan with our landscape architect he clarified his design calculations and we touched base with her and sent her a site plan so she could review it it's our intent and to our advantage to save as many trees on the side as possible even if we don't get credit for them mr. Beatty is a longtime Denton County residents he's owned properties and a business in the city of Denton for more than 30 years he's a quality builder in our community and this project will be built to his high standards we've worked closely with the city staff to reach to this point and we feel the project will complement the neighborhood our tenants will be provided with a quality build on a well landscaped lot with open area for their enjoyment we're here asking for your approval for this SUP tonight so that we can move forward with the permitting process and mr. Beatty and I are here to answer any questions you may have any questions for that thank you very much would you like to speak as well another applicant representative no okay no we might call on you in a minute thank you at this time I will call on Ross Culverson to give our staff report thank you chair this is s-15 18 specific use permit for multifamily dwellings on point eight acres zoned in our mu 12 as mentioned the applicant is Tim Beatty builders site is located on the southeast corner Telaferro Street in North Elm Street and within our staff findings in your staff report we point out that similar to what was available said there are multifamily units and single family units throughout the the street pattern there we find that the units that are proposed are in scale and are compatible to adjacent uses I do want to point out the site plan that shows the indication of where the frontage is of two-story to two -story buildings and then a one-story building towards the rear with a parking court off of Telaferro and a exit only emergency access and excess for trash trucks exiting the property on to the one way North Elm Street there to the south these are the elevations as presented from the applicant and working with the architect staff gave some input and the applicant was amen able and worked to provide a good product and I believe that this provides a good street face to Elm Street as for new infill development in this area so staff is recommending approval subject to the conditions and we get to the recommendations section here just a condition that the proposed development shall substantially comply with the attached site plan building elevations in landscape land submitted with the project I can answer any questions you may have any questions for staff see none thank you Ross with that I will close the public hearing on this item and I will open it up for discussion or emotion Commissioner Hudge with I move approval Commissioner Bribble I love infill development so I will second the motion a first and a second any further discussion or comments seeing none I'm looking forward to voting for this as well I like seeing infill development and I will call for a vote on the board motion carries 7-0 congratulations and good luck on your project that moves us to our project matrix or any concluding items Commissioner Rizzo I'll start this by not knowing where this is gonna end I find it really confusing when the applicant for a build is also submitting a rezone because I think it just blurs though like we're talking forever about what United Way is doing and it seems like the zoning aspects shouldn't even matter what United Way is doing I don't know there's a way to bifurcate those legally or anything like that maybe just me but it happened a couple of weeks ago and thankfully Commissioner Taylor kind of sidebar me and made me think about them separately but so often we have the applicant for a project doing the zoning when we get so focused on what's their building gonna be like what's the permits gonna be like and it changes the focus from the actual just let's look at zoning alignment and I saw it firsthand tonight United Way was speaking more to what United Way is gonna do rather than what the lands gonna be used for and so maybe I'm just vocalizing my confusion during those times there's a way that can just maybe personally be clarified for me or way that that can stay on point I'm not sure again I don't know where this ends but it just seems to come up a couple of times in my short time here it's just like we need to clarify those are discussion tag along with that too real quick because I because I agree because remember when we saw the the reason on the corner of actor and University yeah and and the neighborhood was really upset because they were drive-through restaurants and I had wondered if if the applicant hadn't come forward with that proposal if it was just looking at the rezone if there would have been as much of a of an outcry about that so so I think sometimes it can confuse both the neighborhoods and the Commission when we were should be looking strictly at a rezone and then looking at the project down the road so I I agree with you and I don't know how you separate those but it just seems to be a recurring confusion can I speak to that sure how do you separate them when we look at plats you know first plat second plot we're just see lines we don't see what's going there or whatever we don't know so that's a little bit simpler but I agree it does kind of cloud and we got into it so I don't know what the answer is there are some staff to give some clarification on this there are some suggestions that we can make and we can put that on a future work session perfect Commissioner Hussbuss I just wanted to update everyone that I have been in communication with mr. Mays in the parks department over the bike paths that was kind of redirected to him so he's out of town but when he gets back we're going to meet and we're going to talk bike paths and he's identified some property that the city owns that he thinks may be a good fit and so I'll probably allow him to update at some point but I what I'm pursuing with him and discussing with him is a way to have those paths funded by private dollars but businesses so target has partnered with the city on different projects so target buys a segment of the path and market its markets are tags it or advertises on it how they wish and so instead of spending advertising dollars on TV and ads where it gets fast forwarded past you have a permanent brand on a path here in town and so kind of partnering with different restaurants so if you're Carl juniors and you want to sell a greasy burger and you know advertise our support fitness then you can have it both ways so I'm sure at some point once we get it finalized we'll come back and present that but that's just something I wanted the other commissioners to know I'm working on trying to get rolling thank you for the update Commissioner Dudowitz but all this a question for you we changed the procedure by allowing the applicant to talk first I was curious what's the reason for the change this change will actually flow into how council will be doing that running their meetings as it relates to presentations as well so this initiative in the rationale I'm sorry it's legally the applicant has the burden to to put on their own case when it they're the applicant so we've been doing it backwards most cities do it the other way okay okay I was just curious just want to be in line with what's normal okay well here tonight the last applicant was almost given the staff presentation so then like this thing so that's what they can adjust a little bit and save time and whatever I don't know her first time she was a little nervous too so no I understand that but yeah understand but it's the way it should be thank you seeing no other comments I will close the meeting at 8 o 5 thank you way