1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,299 >> If anyone has any questions regarding the plots on the 2 00:00:02,299 --> 00:00:04,799 consent agenda, we'd be more than happy to address those. 3 00:00:04,799 --> 00:00:06,519 I think they're relatively straightforward. 4 00:00:08,519 --> 00:00:09,019 Maybe not. 5 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:10,839 Go ahead. 6 00:00:10,839 --> 00:00:11,640 >> Commissioner Bruegel. 7 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:12,160 >> Thank you, Chair. 8 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,320 I just was hoping, Mike, could you run us through the 9 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,640 timeline of the item C, 10 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,100 the final plot of block A of the Hickory Creek Shopping 11 00:00:21,100 --> 00:00:21,920 Center? 12 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:23,839 I was just a little confused about that timeline as well. 13 00:00:23,839 --> 00:00:28,859 >> Right, okay, so two meetings ago, we had the conveyance 14 00:00:28,859 --> 00:00:29,320 plot. 15 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,370 >> Yes. >> Which broke up the Hickory Creek Center into 16 00:00:31,370 --> 00:00:32,840 five lots. 17 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,799 And the last meeting, we had the preliminary plot of lot 18 00:00:35,799 --> 00:00:37,200 four and lot eight. 19 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:39,640 And this is the final plot of just lot eight. 20 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:41,240 So all they want to build on is lot eight. 21 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:42,159 >> Perfect, thank you. 22 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:43,750 And I had missed the last meeting, so that would make sense 23 00:00:43,750 --> 00:00:43,920 . 24 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:44,600 Okay, thank you. 25 00:00:46,039 --> 00:00:46,799 >> Commissioner Beck. 26 00:00:46,799 --> 00:00:52,350 >> Yes, also, I guess I wasn't on the PNZ when this Recur 27 00:00:52,350 --> 00:00:54,000 rier States was approved. 28 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,979 Can you just give me a quick, what the heck's going on here 29 00:00:56,979 --> 00:00:57,240 ? 30 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:00,520 Which item? 31 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:01,520 >> Item E on. 32 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,840 >> Oh, the Recurrier States. 33 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:06,200 This is a property in the ETJ. 34 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:08,200 They have two lots. 35 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,909 Typically, you don't only see those because they're minor 36 00:01:10,909 --> 00:01:12,760 plots of staff approval. 37 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:14,680 But in this case, they have one lot that doesn't have any 38 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,040 furniture on a public road. 39 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:18,140 And per the local government code, that has to go to 40 00:01:18,140 --> 00:01:19,280 Planning and Zoning Commission. 41 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,079 It can't be approved by staff. 42 00:01:21,079 --> 00:01:22,040 So that's the only reason it's here. 43 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,010 >> So it looks like one lot is just sitting in the big 44 00:01:24,010 --> 00:01:24,680 middle of the- 45 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,430 >> Yeah, this family is doing the block in the middle is 46 00:01:27,430 --> 00:01:28,159 for them. 47 00:01:28,159 --> 00:01:31,170 And the outside lot is going to be for one of their parents 48 00:01:31,170 --> 00:01:31,439 . 49 00:01:31,439 --> 00:01:33,079 >> Okay, okay, thank you. 50 00:01:37,799 --> 00:01:40,040 >> Okay, no other questions on the consent agenda? 51 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:43,599 Move on to our work session reports. 52 00:01:45,239 --> 00:01:48,040 We've got our work session report. 53 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,599 The item A, PC 16-039. 54 00:01:51,599 --> 00:01:54,010 I think Julie's going to get an opportunity to finish this 55 00:01:54,010 --> 00:01:54,760 for us finally. 56 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:58,519 >> Yes, thanks for having me back. 57 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:10,439 Okay, so I promise I know how to work a computer. 58 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,319 Okay, we got most of the way through. 59 00:02:22,319 --> 00:02:27,639 So I think I'm just going to go straight to bike counts, 60 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,599 because we kind of went through most of this. 61 00:02:31,599 --> 00:02:36,439 If anybody has any questions before I start. 62 00:02:38,199 --> 00:02:43,870 Okay, okay, so we undertook bike and pedestrian manual 63 00:02:43,870 --> 00:02:45,360 counts this year. 64 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,259 We did it in conjunction with the National Bike and Pedest 65 00:02:48,259 --> 00:02:50,560 rian Documentation Project. 66 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:55,479 They're a group who work with also planning and design and 67 00:02:55,479 --> 00:02:58,680 also the Institute of Transportation Engineers. 68 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:03,240 They've been doing this since about, I think it's 2004, 69 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:03,879 2005. 70 00:03:03,879 --> 00:03:08,610 And their goal is to have a clearing house of data for bike 71 00:03:08,610 --> 00:03:09,800 and ped use. 72 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,199 There's not a whole lot of data that people collect on it. 73 00:03:12,199 --> 00:03:16,219 We have traffic data for vehicle usage for years and years 74 00:03:16,219 --> 00:03:17,280 and years, decades. 75 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,120 But not a lot for ped and bike data. 76 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,759 So they want to sort of start that project going. 77 00:03:23,759 --> 00:03:27,319 And you essentially just use volunteers to manually count 78 00:03:27,319 --> 00:03:27,919 bicycles and 79 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,159 pedestrians at locations that we choose across the city. 80 00:03:31,159 --> 00:03:32,639 Like I said, there's a lack of data, so 81 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,759 we want to start the data collection for Denton. 82 00:03:35,759 --> 00:03:38,740 So we do have census data, which is great, but it only 83 00:03:38,740 --> 00:03:40,000 tracks commuters. 84 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,300 We want to also track people who are riding to go to the 85 00:03:42,300 --> 00:03:43,120 grocery store, 86 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,240 go to the movies, go to the square. 87 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,080 Essentially people who are riding for 88 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:51,000 other utilitarian trips, not just to get to work. 89 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,000 We also want to be able to do before and after studies. 90 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,099 We want to be able to see, okay, we put in this bike 91 00:03:56,099 --> 00:03:56,960 infrastructure. 92 00:03:58,199 --> 00:04:00,080 Are people using it more now? 93 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,080 If we had charros before, but now we put in a bike lane 94 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:04,599 because that was warranted. 95 00:04:04,599 --> 00:04:05,840 Are we getting more bicyclists? 96 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,280 So we want to be able to track how a project is doing. 97 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,439 So based on what the National Bike Ped Project does, 98 00:04:14,439 --> 00:04:16,879 they set count dates in September. 99 00:04:16,879 --> 00:04:18,560 That's a good time frame generally. 100 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,800 People are back in school, so they pick a week in September 101 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:21,959 . 102 00:04:21,959 --> 00:04:22,959 It's usually the second week. 103 00:04:22,959 --> 00:04:26,399 We did ours the week of September 14th. 104 00:04:26,399 --> 00:04:28,680 And you count for two hours during the peak time. 105 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,600 So you count on a weekday and on a weekend. 106 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,709 Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday, those days are 107 00:04:34,709 --> 00:04:35,800 statistically the same. 108 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,319 You don't want to count on a Monday or a Friday. 109 00:04:38,319 --> 00:04:40,600 And then you count on a Saturday or Sunday. 110 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:41,959 We used all volunteers. 111 00:04:41,959 --> 00:04:44,899 We asked them over social media if they wanted to be a 112 00:04:44,899 --> 00:04:45,800 volunteer. 113 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:46,480 They signed up. 114 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:47,879 They were trained. 115 00:04:47,879 --> 00:04:49,160 We had training sessions here. 116 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:50,879 We also had a training session at the Civic Center. 117 00:04:50,879 --> 00:04:53,160 So they learned how to do the counts. 118 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,519 We did screen line counts, which is the most basic. 119 00:04:55,519 --> 00:05:00,240 You essentially put a imaginary line across the street. 120 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,800 And anybody who crosses that line in either direction, you 121 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:03,839 count them, either 122 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,279 as a person on a bike, a pedestrian, or other. 123 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:12,959 Other is somebody who is on their rollerblading. 124 00:05:12,959 --> 00:05:16,000 That's about it for other rollerblader. 125 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,279 They're not really pedestrians. 126 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:18,560 >> Unicycle. 127 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,279 >> Unicycle would count as a bicyclist. 128 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:21,720 >> Okay. 129 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,199 >> Yeah. 130 00:05:23,199 --> 00:05:27,050 And every, so I think we had eight volunteers and we had 14 131 00:05:27,050 --> 00:05:28,399 locations across the city. 132 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,810 There are definitely some pros and cons to doing bike 133 00:05:32,810 --> 00:05:34,480 counts this way. 134 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,360 We like that we're able to involve the community. 135 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:37,160 They feel involved. 136 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:38,319 They get to count. 137 00:05:38,319 --> 00:05:39,399 I get to interact with them. 138 00:05:39,399 --> 00:05:41,079 That's really great. 139 00:05:41,079 --> 00:05:43,610 When we're counting it ourselves, we're allowed to collect 140 00:05:43,610 --> 00:05:44,240 extra data. 141 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,560 So we can count gender, which we did this year. 142 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,199 You can count helmet use. 143 00:05:49,199 --> 00:05:51,480 That's not something we counted this year, but 144 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,120 it's something we can obviously add in the future. 145 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,199 Gender is a really good thing you want to be tracking. 146 00:05:57,199 --> 00:06:02,360 It's fairly known that more men ride bikes than women. 147 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,839 And so the goal is always to get more women riding, 148 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:07,680 because that means you're probably doing something right if 149 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:08,399 women are choosing to 150 00:06:08,399 --> 00:06:08,959 ride their bike. 151 00:06:08,959 --> 00:06:12,519 Women in general are more risk averse, 152 00:06:12,519 --> 00:06:15,680 and have different roles than men in general, if we're 153 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,759 talking stereotypes in general. 154 00:06:17,759 --> 00:06:20,199 So yeah, if you can get women bicycling, that's always 155 00:06:20,199 --> 00:06:20,959 really good. 156 00:06:20,959 --> 00:06:23,670 There are definitely some drawbacks to doing the manual 157 00:06:23,670 --> 00:06:24,959 counts as well though. 158 00:06:24,959 --> 00:06:27,490 You're limited on your duration and the location of your 159 00:06:27,490 --> 00:06:27,879 counts. 160 00:06:27,879 --> 00:06:29,680 Again, we only have so many volunteers. 161 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,360 We can't count everywhere we'd like to count. 162 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,120 There's also a lot of effects by the weather. 163 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,610 It actually rained and we had to cancel one of our count 164 00:06:39,610 --> 00:06:40,079 dates, and 165 00:06:40,079 --> 00:06:41,399 that's never fun. 166 00:06:41,399 --> 00:06:43,120 There's also just human error. 167 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:47,970 We train them, but they could mess up, possibly they couldn 168 00:06:47,970 --> 00:06:48,519 't show up. 169 00:06:48,519 --> 00:06:51,800 I had some people who had to cancel, cuz life happens. 170 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:53,279 So there's pros and cons to doing it. 171 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,980 There's also other ways we like to do it, which I'll talk 172 00:06:55,980 --> 00:06:57,160 about near the end. 173 00:06:58,759 --> 00:07:01,560 Here's where we chose to count. 174 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:05,000 We chose them based on where we have projects coming up and 175 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,040 where we know there is high use, such as Congress. 176 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,100 We know we're gonna be doing some bike infrastructure there 177 00:07:11,100 --> 00:07:11,839 this year. 178 00:07:11,839 --> 00:07:13,600 You see location number three is Malone. 179 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,839 We'd planned to do a road diet on Malone, but 180 00:07:16,839 --> 00:07:20,769 found out that there's a street project, a wastewater 181 00:07:20,769 --> 00:07:22,319 project going on. 182 00:07:22,319 --> 00:07:24,920 So that project's delayed till 2017, but we counted there. 183 00:07:26,199 --> 00:07:27,560 Other locations we counted, 184 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,779 you can see where we have infrastructure right now or 185 00:07:30,779 --> 00:07:32,600 planned infrastructure. 186 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,160 Six, we counted on Bonnie Bray, cuz as you know, 187 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:37,639 Bonnie Bray's gonna be expanded. 188 00:07:37,639 --> 00:07:40,129 So we just wanna get some before and after counts at that 189 00:07:40,129 --> 00:07:41,439 location to see 190 00:07:41,439 --> 00:07:42,319 what's going on there. 191 00:07:45,399 --> 00:07:48,480 Here's our raw data. 192 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:53,079 And I show this to you cuz I want you to know that this is 193 00:07:53,079 --> 00:07:54,120 good data to have and 194 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:58,279 it's really just a starting point, but the data is limited. 195 00:07:58,279 --> 00:08:01,509 You only count for two hours and then you extrapolate from 196 00:08:01,509 --> 00:08:02,319 that data. 197 00:08:02,319 --> 00:08:05,850 So you can see that we actually only counted a total of 173 198 00:08:05,850 --> 00:08:06,519 people. 199 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,519 And we counted 435 pedestrians. 200 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,160 So it's good data, we definitely wanna build off of it. 201 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,750 But again, it's not continuous data, it's very limited and 202 00:08:17,750 --> 00:08:18,240 small. 203 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,360 >> Commissioner Dettowitz. 204 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,300 >> On your pedestrians and your bikers, could it be that 205 00:08:23,300 --> 00:08:24,680 the same person counted 206 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:30,000 on three or four days when you got to your total number of 207 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:31,120 bikers? 208 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:32,919 >> What do you mean? 209 00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:35,919 >> If somebody would road, your count was done on Tuesday, 210 00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:37,279 Wednesday, Thursday. 211 00:08:37,279 --> 00:08:38,919 >> We did count it on Tuesday and Wednesday. 212 00:08:38,919 --> 00:08:40,200 >> Tuesday and Wednesday, okay. 213 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,600 And then you counted again on Saturday, right? 214 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:43,639 >> Correct. >> Okay. 215 00:08:43,639 --> 00:08:44,360 >> And Sunday. 216 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,600 >> Could the same person be counted four times a day? 217 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,350 >> Yeah, these are individual people, I guess they're trips 218 00:08:49,350 --> 00:08:49,559 . 219 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,139 Well, no, these are individual, that's how many people we 220 00:08:52,139 --> 00:08:52,639 counted. 221 00:08:52,639 --> 00:08:54,559 You're right, they could be the exact same person. 222 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:55,679 >> Okay. 223 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:57,240 >> If they travel that route every day. 224 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:02,690 >> So that goes back to the pros and cons of the survey 225 00:09:02,690 --> 00:09:03,720 done. 226 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:05,840 >> Well, same thing if you're counting vehicles. 227 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,350 You can still count the same vehicle every day, because 228 00:09:08,350 --> 00:09:10,320 they're traveling that same route every day. 229 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,120 >> Right, as long as you identify trips and not people. 230 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:13,799 That's what I'm suggesting. 231 00:09:13,799 --> 00:09:16,179 >> Right, these ones are definitely, well, these are a 232 00:09:16,179 --> 00:09:18,600 person crossed, we consider that. 233 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:20,320 >> All right. >> You've crossed a trip. 234 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:21,870 >> So I'm just questioning- >> If you cross again because 235 00:09:21,870 --> 00:09:24,279 you're coming home, that's a trip as well. 236 00:09:24,279 --> 00:09:25,159 >> I understand. >> But you get the same person. 237 00:09:25,159 --> 00:09:27,600 >> So I'm just looking at vernacular, so it's a trip. 238 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:29,799 >> Correct. >> Thank you. 239 00:09:29,799 --> 00:09:33,220 >> Yeah, so you can see the numbers, you're right, we like 240 00:09:33,220 --> 00:09:34,080 doing this. 241 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:38,600 We want to build off of this data, but it's lacking in 242 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,759 robustness. 243 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:47,279 So the bike pad project, the national bike pad project, 244 00:09:47,279 --> 00:09:50,080 they give us extrapolation worksheets. 245 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,159 And that's what I use to do the projection. 246 00:09:53,159 --> 00:09:57,279 So they give us these Excel worksheets and we input all of 247 00:09:57,279 --> 00:09:58,480 our numbers and 248 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,879 do some fancy math that they've honed over the years. 249 00:10:01,879 --> 00:10:03,480 They've been doing this since 2004. 250 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,000 So they've been doing it for a long time and they've honed 251 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,399 their numbers and this is what we use. 252 00:10:07,399 --> 00:10:10,820 So these are our projections, again, they're based on a 253 00:10:10,820 --> 00:10:12,480 very small sample size. 254 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,830 But first I want to point out Oak and Welch, we counted 255 00:10:15,830 --> 00:10:16,480 there. 256 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,190 Kind of on Oak Street, so people who are crossing on Oak 257 00:10:20,190 --> 00:10:21,559 Street at Welch. 258 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,179 You can see that they had the highest numbers for bicycl 259 00:10:24,179 --> 00:10:26,559 ists and pedestrians, which is sort of obvious. 260 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,600 It's not by UNT, lots of bikes and peds at that area. 261 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,320 Second, we want to highlight Locust and Sycamore. 262 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:40,570 So we counted on Locust at Sycamore and that was the second 263 00:10:40,570 --> 00:10:42,399 highest for pedestrians. 264 00:10:42,399 --> 00:10:44,080 It's a high area for people walking. 265 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,720 You can see it's about even for weekday and weekend for 266 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,519 people who are walking on Locust, which is good. 267 00:10:51,519 --> 00:10:53,240 That's what we expect for the downtown area. 268 00:10:55,879 --> 00:11:00,159 Wanted to highlight for bicyclists, Congress and Coy and 269 00:11:00,159 --> 00:11:01,320 then Malone and Broadway. 270 00:11:02,519 --> 00:11:05,919 These each are the next highest for bicyclists and those 271 00:11:05,919 --> 00:11:09,389 are areas that we are planning to put bike infrastructure 272 00:11:09,389 --> 00:11:12,240 either this year or next year. 273 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,200 So we really like having this before data. 274 00:11:15,799 --> 00:11:17,039 >> Commissioner Bruegel. 275 00:11:17,039 --> 00:11:17,559 >> Thank you, Chair. 276 00:11:18,919 --> 00:11:21,950 So I'm looking at the Malone and Broadway numbers and I'm 277 00:11:21,950 --> 00:11:25,679 thinking about like my husband who commutes to UNT daily 278 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,480 with our three year old in the trailer behind him. 279 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,169 But because the traffic is so fast on Malone, people go 40 280 00:11:32,169 --> 00:11:34,159 in a 30 at least, right? 281 00:11:34,159 --> 00:11:35,279 It's a long stretch there. 282 00:11:36,399 --> 00:11:41,080 And there is no dedicated bike lane or anything there. 283 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,279 They typically will ride up and down Gober. 284 00:11:44,279 --> 00:11:47,149 So I'm wondering, have you looked at any like some of the 285 00:11:47,149 --> 00:11:50,000 maybe the heat mapping apps that are out there that cycl 286 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,570 ists are already using that are showing the trips that they 287 00:11:52,570 --> 00:11:54,840 're taking and the routes that they're taking. 288 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,450 That you could maybe then also incorporate to some of these 289 00:11:57,450 --> 00:11:59,820 bike counts to get a clear idea of not only how many cycl 290 00:11:59,820 --> 00:12:03,210 ists are on Malone and Broadway, but how many cyclists are 291 00:12:03,210 --> 00:12:06,259 riding in that general area in the general direction to 292 00:12:06,259 --> 00:12:09,080 kind of get a more robust count for what we're looking at. 293 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:10,000 >> Right, that's a good point. 294 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,710 We haven't looked at Strava or MapMyRide or anything like 295 00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:13,200 that. 296 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:14,679 Generally, I have to pay for that data. 297 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:16,960 It's just not something we've looked into at this point. 298 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:20,539 But it's good to note that people will take an alternative 299 00:12:20,539 --> 00:12:23,730 route if they don't have a bike accommodation there 300 00:12:23,730 --> 00:12:25,440 currently like Malone. 301 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,710 So that's a road that we have designated as a good 302 00:12:29,710 --> 00:12:32,720 candidate to do a road diet on. 303 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:34,519 So then you would have a bike lane. 304 00:12:34,519 --> 00:12:37,220 And so hopefully, once there's a bike lane, people would 305 00:12:37,220 --> 00:12:39,200 then choose to take that route instead of- 306 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:39,840 >> Gober. 307 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:40,840 >> Gober, yeah. 308 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,000 >> But my point just more generally is that this data is 309 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:44,879 out there. 310 00:12:44,879 --> 00:12:47,629 >> Right. >> Yes, it may cost something to get that data, 311 00:12:47,629 --> 00:12:49,759 but there's also, 312 00:12:49,759 --> 00:12:52,110 I just think that that data would be really important for 313 00:12:52,110 --> 00:12:54,240 us to have as we're looking towards the future. 314 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:55,279 >> Right. 315 00:12:55,279 --> 00:12:57,909 >> That said, Denton's a really tech savvy town, so there 316 00:12:57,909 --> 00:12:59,799 might be another way for us to get that data without having 317 00:12:59,799 --> 00:13:01,120 to pay some sort of membership fee. 318 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,299 But I think that it would give us a more accurate count of 319 00:13:05,299 --> 00:13:07,120 where people really truly are riding, 320 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,450 because people may not be comfortable riding on Malone and 321 00:13:09,450 --> 00:13:11,080 they may be taking the side streets. 322 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:12,639 >> Right. >> If you're not sitting on the corner of Gober 323 00:13:12,639 --> 00:13:13,279 and wherever, 324 00:13:13,279 --> 00:13:15,750 you're going to miss 50 riders that morning who don't feel 325 00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:17,200 comfortable going on Malone. 326 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:17,919 >> Right. >> You know what I mean? 327 00:13:17,919 --> 00:13:19,480 >> Yeah, no, that's a very good point. 328 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:22,710 Yeah, again, I mean there are limits to like Strava data as 329 00:13:22,710 --> 00:13:23,240 well. 330 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,240 Sometimes it's people who have self-selected as a bicyclist 331 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:27,559 . 332 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,789 But it's still very good data to have, so we could look 333 00:13:30,789 --> 00:13:31,639 into that. 334 00:13:31,639 --> 00:13:32,519 >> Yeah, I would encourage that. 335 00:13:32,519 --> 00:13:36,730 I think it would give us a clearer idea of not only where, 336 00:13:36,730 --> 00:13:39,519 maybe not specific routes that they're going, but point A 337 00:13:39,519 --> 00:13:40,279 to point B data. 338 00:13:40,279 --> 00:13:41,240 >> Right. >> Yeah? 339 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:42,320 >> Yeah. >> Okay, thanks. 340 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,480 >> Thank you. 341 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,960 So that's about it for projections. 342 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:49,759 Again, this is only the first year. 343 00:13:49,759 --> 00:13:52,000 It's just trying to set a baseline. 344 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,470 As years progress, we'd like to be able to see the numbers 345 00:13:54,470 --> 00:13:56,120 increase based on what we're doing, 346 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,980 not just infrastructure wise, but education and 347 00:13:58,980 --> 00:14:00,159 encouragement. 348 00:14:00,159 --> 00:14:01,799 So- >> I have a question before you- 349 00:14:01,799 --> 00:14:03,320 >> Go for it. 350 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,799 >> I may not have followed the chart correctly. 351 00:14:05,799 --> 00:14:09,039 I saw the single asterisk and the double asterisk for 352 00:14:09,039 --> 00:14:09,679 projections. 353 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,379 But on the ones that are like Locust and Sycamore, are 354 00:14:13,379 --> 00:14:16,019 those numbers projected also, or are they somewhat off of 355 00:14:16,019 --> 00:14:16,559 the count? 356 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:19,679 >> No, these are all projections. 357 00:14:19,679 --> 00:14:24,279 Sorry, the ones that have asterisks, those means they had, 358 00:14:24,279 --> 00:14:25,919 I think they had two count dates. 359 00:14:25,919 --> 00:14:29,799 And so I averaged the Tuesday and the Wednesday. 360 00:14:29,799 --> 00:14:32,539 The other ones, I'd have to average because I'm only 361 00:14:32,539 --> 00:14:33,759 counted on one day. 362 00:14:33,759 --> 00:14:36,940 >> So all of this got some kind of a projection- >> Correct 363 00:14:36,940 --> 00:14:37,039 . 364 00:14:37,039 --> 00:14:40,330 >> Data in it, because I was looking at it when I went week 365 00:14:40,330 --> 00:14:42,440 day 68, how did you get 540? 366 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,250 But if it's some kind of a formula- >> Right, there's a 367 00:14:45,250 --> 00:14:45,840 formula. 368 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:46,519 >> I got you. 369 00:14:46,519 --> 00:14:49,629 I thought the formula was just on the, maybe on the double 370 00:14:49,629 --> 00:14:51,840 asterisk and the single, I couldn't follow how- 371 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,870 >> No, sorry, and I forgot to include the asterisks in here 372 00:14:54,870 --> 00:14:56,000 , that was my bad. 373 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,179 Yeah, that meant that we had two days of data and it was 374 00:15:00,179 --> 00:15:00,879 averaged. 375 00:15:00,879 --> 00:15:01,519 >> Okay. 376 00:15:01,519 --> 00:15:03,840 >> And again, we only had so many volunteers, so 377 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,480 not every location was able to get two weekday counts and 378 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,080 two weekend counts. 379 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:10,840 >> So you really got a couple things going on. 380 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:14,240 You've got some averaging of some of your data. 381 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,750 And then, no matter whether it was averaged or not, then 382 00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:19,480 there's some kind of a projection formula- 383 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:20,000 >> Right. 384 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,279 >> That you take, whether it's an average number or whether 385 00:15:22,279 --> 00:15:24,879 it was an actual count number that then creates a type. 386 00:15:24,879 --> 00:15:25,480 >> Correct, yeah. 387 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,529 And that's the same process they use when they do average 388 00:15:28,529 --> 00:15:31,120 daily vehicle counts for roads. 389 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,759 Of course, they're using continuous data. 390 00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:35,929 They put the pneumatic tubes on the road and they're 391 00:15:35,929 --> 00:15:36,799 counting cars. 392 00:15:37,919 --> 00:15:40,129 So the data is better to do a production off of as opposed 393 00:15:40,129 --> 00:15:42,360 to we just counted for two hours. 394 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,039 >> To follow up, did you have any traffic counts that we 395 00:15:46,039 --> 00:15:49,360 can look at just to kind of see on some of these roads? 396 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,320 Here's what car traffic count is, here's what pedestrian, 397 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,320 here's what bikes would get some kind of a feel. 398 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:59,240 Are these really heavily traveled roads for vehicles, 399 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,120 people, and cyclists? 400 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,159 Or are they not and some of the, I guess, Amber brings up a 401 00:16:05,159 --> 00:16:08,679 good point about maybe on some of these, 402 00:16:08,679 --> 00:16:13,320 instead of having a bike lane in a heavily traveled road. 403 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,399 >> Right. >> It might even make more sense to have it on a 404 00:16:16,399 --> 00:16:17,440 side street where- 405 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:21,080 >> Right. >> There's less vehicle traffic and accidents and 406 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:21,919 those types of things. 407 00:16:21,919 --> 00:16:24,860 And I don't know if that's something that anybody's talked 408 00:16:24,860 --> 00:16:25,399 about. 409 00:16:25,399 --> 00:16:27,509 >> Yeah, that's a good point on the bike plan to take that 410 00:16:27,509 --> 00:16:28,519 into consideration. 411 00:16:28,519 --> 00:16:31,129 So we have lots of roads that parallel major roads that we 412 00:16:31,129 --> 00:16:32,840 've put back accommodations on. 413 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,899 Like Carroll, it's a very busy road, likely won't have back 414 00:16:35,899 --> 00:16:37,000 accommodations. 415 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,000 But there are a lot of great parallel streets that can get 416 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:39,519 you there. 417 00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:42,159 So you can go on Allis, you can go on Coyote, you can even 418 00:16:42,159 --> 00:16:43,240 go on Fulton or Bryan and 419 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,120 they'll get you the same north south direction. 420 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:51,919 >> I think that's a win for the cars and the bicyclists. 421 00:16:51,919 --> 00:16:54,879 Everybody can get where they need to go and it's probably 422 00:16:54,879 --> 00:16:55,480 safer. 423 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,240 And you have some feedback on that? 424 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,360 >> Well, yeah, thanks. 425 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:00,360 >> Commissioner Bruegel. 426 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:01,159 >> Thank you, Chair. 427 00:17:01,159 --> 00:17:06,799 I would say as a woman, I would feel safer riding on Gober. 428 00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:09,109 My husband, however, if he didn't have our three year old 429 00:17:09,109 --> 00:17:10,559 behind us, I can't speak for him. 430 00:17:10,559 --> 00:17:13,569 But I would think that he would just want to take the 431 00:17:13,569 --> 00:17:14,720 straight shot. 432 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:16,200 That's where the cars go. 433 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:17,359 That's where the people want to go. 434 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,440 It's the easiest shot from where we live to his office. 435 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,000 And so I certainly don't want to disenfranchise riders like 436 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,119 that who have just as much right to 437 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,670 be using the road as anyone else, whether or not they're in 438 00:17:28,670 --> 00:17:29,279 a car. 439 00:17:29,279 --> 00:17:32,839 But I think to be able to build bike accommodations on the 440 00:17:32,839 --> 00:17:34,599 heavily traveled areas. 441 00:17:34,599 --> 00:17:36,910 And perhaps, and I'm glad that you're doing these bike 442 00:17:36,910 --> 00:17:40,319 counts too, because after Malone gets that road diet, 443 00:17:40,319 --> 00:17:43,839 I'd be really curious to see, has ridership gone up? 444 00:17:43,839 --> 00:17:46,740 People will still be traveling the side streets as they 445 00:17:46,740 --> 00:17:47,960 feel comfortable. 446 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,140 But to create accommodations on the major roads that people 447 00:17:51,140 --> 00:17:52,960 want to be traveling on anyway, 448 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,359 I think it's our duty as a city to do that. 449 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,920 So if that, did that answer your inquiry? 450 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:00,200 Yeah? 451 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:00,839 >> Yeah, I just wanted to- 452 00:18:00,839 --> 00:18:04,769 >> Yeah, I mean, I think there's pros and cons in both 453 00:18:04,769 --> 00:18:05,839 avenues. 454 00:18:05,839 --> 00:18:08,500 But I certainly wouldn't want to just say, well, Gober runs 455 00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:10,799 north south, so we don't have to do anything on Malone. 456 00:18:10,799 --> 00:18:11,319 Do you know what I mean? 457 00:18:11,319 --> 00:18:15,750 >> I'm suggesting maybe if you do it on Gober, that it's a 458 00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:18,119 less heavily vehicle traveled road, 459 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:22,839 that it may be safer for bicyclists, and then it doesn't 460 00:18:22,839 --> 00:18:23,839 get into, 461 00:18:23,839 --> 00:18:26,900 we've got one lane that's exclusively going to be a bike 462 00:18:26,900 --> 00:18:28,680 lane, whether it's used or not. 463 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,640 And some of the heavily trafficked roads stay vehicle. 464 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,069 And if there's a parallel, that maybe is a share-o or a 465 00:18:35,069 --> 00:18:37,359 bike lane, and those types of things. 466 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:43,039 That it's kind of, at least an initial look to me is maybe 467 00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:43,720 a little more of, 468 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,720 I don't know the right word, but it's just another 469 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,119 alternative of how to solve this issue. 470 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,240 >> Yeah, and I feel like there's room for both, honestly. 471 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,609 And that kind of brings me to one of my questions, if I may 472 00:18:56,609 --> 00:18:56,839 . 473 00:18:56,839 --> 00:18:58,079 >> Sure. 474 00:18:58,079 --> 00:19:01,930 >> So this board and many city boards typically will 475 00:19:01,930 --> 00:19:05,460 revisit documents that have come, been adopted by city 476 00:19:05,460 --> 00:19:06,079 council. 477 00:19:06,079 --> 00:19:08,279 This document is now five years old. 478 00:19:08,279 --> 00:19:11,069 We're just now starting to implement, well, we've been 479 00:19:11,069 --> 00:19:12,000 implementing some things, but 480 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,190 we're really starting to see some progress moving forward 481 00:19:14,190 --> 00:19:17,039 kind of now, now that our waste water projects and 482 00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:19,400 our road projects are getting taken care of, we can now 483 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:20,880 finally build this bike plan. 484 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,799 What's your sense, do you think that this document is truly 485 00:19:25,799 --> 00:19:28,549 representative of what we need currently as a city and 486 00:19:28,549 --> 00:19:29,200 where we're going? 487 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,309 Is this something that we maybe need to reconvene another 488 00:19:32,309 --> 00:19:35,200 bike plan task force to look at and 489 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,400 see is Gober a better route than Malone, or are there 490 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,200 routes that are missing? 491 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,819 And I think having data like this and having some of those 492 00:19:42,819 --> 00:19:45,319 heat mapping apps would give us a better idea. 493 00:19:45,319 --> 00:19:48,359 When we overlay that on the bike plan that we currently 494 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:51,039 have, is the bike plan meeting our needs? 495 00:19:51,039 --> 00:19:52,839 So what's your sense? 496 00:19:52,839 --> 00:19:54,720 >> Yeah, that's a really good question. 497 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,220 Our bike plan is it was adopted in 2012, it was four years 498 00:19:58,220 --> 00:20:01,079 ago, but the bulk of the work would have been done in 2011. 499 00:20:01,079 --> 00:20:03,079 So yeah, it's about five years old. 500 00:20:03,079 --> 00:20:05,920 We have discussed updating it, most plans you would update 501 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,079 in about five years. 502 00:20:07,079 --> 00:20:09,690 And right now is the time to do that, we're in the middle 503 00:20:09,690 --> 00:20:10,880 of budget session. 504 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,130 So anything that's not currently budgeted, such as money 505 00:20:15,130 --> 00:20:17,440 for a bike plan, we ask for it right now. 506 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:18,000 So that's something that's discussed. 507 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,480 >> Commissioner Dudowitz. 508 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,920 >> I'm sorry to interject, but I didn't want this other 509 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,880 conversation to get away from me, at least a dive from 510 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:25,559 loneliness. 511 00:20:25,559 --> 00:20:28,759 But both bring up good issues. 512 00:20:30,759 --> 00:20:34,289 My point of view is a sense of yes, we need the bicycle 513 00:20:34,289 --> 00:20:36,960 lanes and we need to make sure that they're safe. 514 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,380 And it makes sense, but it makes sense that it doesn't 515 00:20:40,380 --> 00:20:42,240 disrupt one or the other. 516 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:42,880 So bicycle lanes- 517 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,839 >> Right, our goal is to make them work well together. 518 00:20:44,839 --> 00:20:46,160 >> Together, exactly. 519 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,819 because I've seen situations and read situations where the 520 00:20:48,819 --> 00:20:53,160 bike lanes took over and 521 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,250 you took lanes away from traffic and then had bottled up 522 00:20:56,250 --> 00:21:00,160 car traffic, which is a bigger proportion of the commutes. 523 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,160 To the expense of, I mean, give the bikes more room, less 524 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:04,960 for the cars. 525 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,599 As long as we have a balance and it works so that not one 526 00:21:07,599 --> 00:21:09,960 or the other is impeded, I think it's fine. 527 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:10,599 And I think we need them. 528 00:21:10,599 --> 00:21:15,380 So the conversation was looking at routes where is it safer 529 00:21:15,380 --> 00:21:19,200 or put them on side situations, maybe better. 530 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,549 But I also understand, you have the straight line and it 531 00:21:21,549 --> 00:21:22,240 makes sense. 532 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,640 As long as it doesn't take away from the other aspect of 533 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,160 the traffic as well. 534 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,099 That's my point of view and I've seen in some cities where 535 00:21:30,099 --> 00:21:33,630 it's gotten out of hand and backed up traffic and other 536 00:21:33,630 --> 00:21:34,480 things. 537 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,640 Maybe they should ride their bike to work. 538 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:37,519 >> That's not going to happen. 539 00:21:37,519 --> 00:21:39,869 Maybe people who ride their bike should take a car, a car 540 00:21:39,869 --> 00:21:40,279 pool. 541 00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:43,680 >> Well, I think, and that was a little tongue in cheek, 542 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,279 but I think that the two can coexist. 543 00:21:46,279 --> 00:21:49,569 And so I'm curious, do you think that the bike plan needs 544 00:21:49,569 --> 00:21:50,799 to be revisited? 545 00:21:50,799 --> 00:21:53,650 Is this something, are we seeing some conflicts kind of 546 00:21:53,650 --> 00:21:56,759 down the road or the lanes that we have built already? 547 00:21:56,759 --> 00:21:57,759 Have there been conflicts? 548 00:21:57,759 --> 00:21:59,039 Do we need to kind of revisit this? 549 00:21:59,039 --> 00:22:02,799 >> Right, there haven't been conflicts as of yet. 550 00:22:02,799 --> 00:22:05,480 We've done a couple of road diets so far. 551 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,230 And the road diet, again, just to clarify, road reconfig 552 00:22:08,230 --> 00:22:11,440 uration generally is you're taking a four lane roadway and 553 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,240 you put it into a two lane roadway, continuous turn lane, 554 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,599 and then you have bike lanes on either side. 555 00:22:16,599 --> 00:22:19,200 We did that on Windsor and we did it on Highland. 556 00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:23,680 And those have both been working really well right now. 557 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,200 And also, we don't just do a road diet on any four lane 558 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:27,880 road. 559 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,059 We look at it, we look at turning movements, we look at the 560 00:22:31,059 --> 00:22:32,599 daily traffic volumes. 561 00:22:32,599 --> 00:22:35,230 And we see how is it going to work in the larger grand 562 00:22:35,230 --> 00:22:37,119 scheme of our roadway network. 563 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,289 So we wouldn't ever do it if it was going to bottle up 564 00:22:39,289 --> 00:22:39,920 traffic. 565 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,829 We have models that we can run that says, no, if we took a 566 00:22:42,829 --> 00:22:45,799 lane away here, this would cause a bottleneck. 567 00:22:45,799 --> 00:22:47,559 And if it would, we wouldn't do it. 568 00:22:47,559 --> 00:22:50,759 But lots of times, road diets are very effective. 569 00:22:50,759 --> 00:22:52,359 Many, many cities have done them. 570 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,839 They're a proven safety measure from the FHWA. 571 00:22:56,279 --> 00:23:01,000 And Malone was recognized as a good option to do a road 572 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,000 diet. 573 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,920 For our bike plan, yes, I'd love to visit updating it. 574 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:07,440 There are some things we could change. 575 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,880 ASHA came out with a new guide in 2012, which missed, so 576 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:13,880 the bike plan misses a few of those updates. 577 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,880 >> I think Commissioner Beck was first. 578 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,119 >> Thank you, Chair. 579 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:21,359 >> Fire away. 580 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:22,079 >> You'll come back to you. 581 00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:24,990 >> We brought up Windsor and I kind of figured that's what 582 00:23:24,990 --> 00:23:26,559 Frank was talking about. 583 00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:30,420 But I noticed, and I'm curious, why do you have a Sherman 584 00:23:30,420 --> 00:23:32,160 and Dover route here? 585 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:34,480 Because Dover's just a side street. 586 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,109 >> Right, we counted on Sherman, but the cross street was 587 00:23:37,109 --> 00:23:37,720 at Dover. 588 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,920 So Sherman is a nice route for people who are what I'd call 589 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:41,759 the weekend warrior. 590 00:23:41,759 --> 00:23:45,160 They're going out to ride their bike out on the FM roads. 591 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,789 So I was just curious how many people are riding out there 592 00:23:47,789 --> 00:23:48,519 on Sherman. 593 00:23:48,519 --> 00:23:50,200 >> So Dover's kind of an end point then? 594 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,079 >> Well, Dover was just a good street to be like, that's 595 00:23:53,079 --> 00:23:54,119 where we're at. 596 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:55,200 >> To make the count. 597 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,559 >> So I knew where we were counting on Sherman. 598 00:23:57,559 --> 00:24:01,769 >> Okay, but curious too, why didn't we do a count on Winds 599 00:24:01,769 --> 00:24:02,079 or? 600 00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:05,240 We did do that road diet there. 601 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:06,039 >> You're right. 602 00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:09,119 So there's no before data for Windsor. 603 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,240 That was done in 2013, 2014. 604 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,880 There's no before data for that. 605 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,769 But I am planning on doing counts on Windsor this spring 606 00:24:17,769 --> 00:24:18,920 with some 607 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,079 automatic counters that we can borrow from the COG. 608 00:24:21,079 --> 00:24:22,759 >> Okay, good, thanks. 609 00:24:22,759 --> 00:24:23,599 >> Yeah, you're welcome. 610 00:24:23,599 --> 00:24:24,680 >> Commissioner Riddle. 611 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:25,839 >> Thank you, Chair. 612 00:24:25,839 --> 00:24:30,220 So as we're talking about possibly revisiting the bike plan 613 00:24:30,220 --> 00:24:32,519 , is that the purview of PNZ? 614 00:24:32,519 --> 00:24:35,779 Is that, I believe traffic safety is kind of the overseers 615 00:24:35,779 --> 00:24:36,960 of the bike plan. 616 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,799 I mean, who would maybe give direction for that? 617 00:24:39,799 --> 00:24:41,779 Just to revisit it and make sure that it's the right 618 00:24:41,779 --> 00:24:43,920 document for where we are and where we're going. 619 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,750 >> If I remember, and this is, I wasn't obviously here when 620 00:24:46,750 --> 00:24:47,640 we adopted it. 621 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,940 I think engineering, they didn't have a bike ped 622 00:24:49,940 --> 00:24:50,680 coordinator. 623 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,970 Engineering took charge of that, and then they created the 624 00:24:54,970 --> 00:24:57,559 bike task force or focus group. 625 00:24:57,559 --> 00:25:01,299 And then they presented, so they came to PNZ, I think, to 626 00:25:01,299 --> 00:25:02,799 two work sessions. 627 00:25:02,799 --> 00:25:05,200 They went to Traffic Safety Commission, they went to Mob 628 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,920 ility Committee, and then once they all gave input, then 629 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:10,640 they went to City Council. 630 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,470 So that would be an undertaking that, it would mainly be 631 00:25:13,470 --> 00:25:14,079 myself and 632 00:25:14,079 --> 00:25:17,049 probably Noreen Housewright, the engineer who worked on the 633 00:25:17,049 --> 00:25:18,480 bike plan the first time. 634 00:25:19,599 --> 00:25:23,400 >> So would there be, so we would not be looking at like 635 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,359 reconvening like a citizens group like we did five years 636 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:26,799 ago. 637 00:25:26,799 --> 00:25:28,680 >> No, I think we probably would. 638 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,319 Once we got funding to do a new bike plan, we'd probably 639 00:25:32,319 --> 00:25:36,240 have to go through a consultant just because staff time. 640 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,839 And then we would, I imagine we'd once again get a task 641 00:25:39,839 --> 00:25:43,240 force together of stakeholders who would help guide the 642 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:43,799 project. 643 00:25:43,799 --> 00:25:46,839 >> Would that direction come from City Council or would 644 00:25:46,839 --> 00:25:47,640 that come from, 645 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,759 as you mentioned, many different committees in there? 646 00:25:50,759 --> 00:25:53,680 I guess my concern is this document is five years old. 647 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:54,960 >> Right. >> We're now building things. 648 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,079 We adopted, our goal is no longer AASHTO standards but 649 00:25:59,079 --> 00:26:03,480 NACTO standards as per the 2030 comprehensive plan. 650 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,000 Like are we, is everything matching up? 651 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,680 I think this would be a good time to revisit it. 652 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,720 We finally have a bike ped coordinator. 653 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:10,519 Welcome to town. 654 00:26:10,519 --> 00:26:11,720 I'm super glad you're here. 655 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,880 So how do we, where do we go from here to make sure that 656 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:16,880 this is the right document? 657 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,400 Which committee needs to give that direction? 658 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,359 >> I imagine City Council would have final say. 659 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,519 I don't think it'd be P and Z. 660 00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:28,019 >> Dang it. 661 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,640 >> I can, may I interject? 662 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:31,160 >> Last. 663 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:31,660 >> Yeah. 664 00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:35,480 >> Last staff to give some direction. 665 00:26:37,599 --> 00:26:40,069 >> Since it's a component of the mobility plan, it has to 666 00:26:40,069 --> 00:26:41,599 go through the dual hearing. 667 00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:43,119 I think it's the dual hearing process. 668 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:47,640 So it would start here, and once it's recommended to hear, 669 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:48,640 you would recommend it, 670 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,200 and then City Council would pass final. 671 00:26:52,839 --> 00:26:53,599 >> Commissioner Dotto. 672 00:26:53,599 --> 00:26:56,359 >> It's a test that would be initiated by the mobility 673 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,960 committee, but then it would come back to PC. 674 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:00,640 >> I see. >> But I, if I may be right. 675 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:01,599 >> Commissioner Dotto, is she back? 676 00:27:01,599 --> 00:27:04,009 >> Then I think she's onto something here with anything 677 00:27:04,009 --> 00:27:04,440 else. 678 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,319 She can ask as a commissioner that this be visited and 679 00:27:08,319 --> 00:27:12,559 ask the appropriate staff to give us a direction. 680 00:27:12,559 --> 00:27:15,150 Because I've done that and that's something else, and I 681 00:27:15,150 --> 00:27:18,160 think it's very appropriate for, it's five years old. 682 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,769 Let's ask the appropriate people to, is this something we 683 00:27:22,769 --> 00:27:25,079 should be looking at and who should do it? 684 00:27:25,079 --> 00:27:29,599 >> If it is the will of the commission to revisit this and 685 00:27:29,599 --> 00:27:32,839 look at what options we have, are any revisions pertinent? 686 00:27:32,839 --> 00:27:36,609 And if you have a succinct recommendation, then Julie can 687 00:27:36,609 --> 00:27:38,960 then take forward to her committee. 688 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,279 And then they can get the ball rolling from there, and then 689 00:27:41,279 --> 00:27:43,660 it would come back, as Jennifer mentioned, to a public 690 00:27:43,660 --> 00:27:44,559 hearing process. 691 00:27:44,559 --> 00:27:46,160 >> Yeah, I mean, I would like to see that. 692 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:46,920 >> Commissioner Bruegel. 693 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:47,720 >> Thank you, Chair. 694 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,720 I think the timing is right. 695 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,960 We just recently approved the mobility plan. 696 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:53,200 We've got a new comp plan. 697 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:54,720 We've got a bike pedestrian coordinator. 698 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,180 I think that now would be a good time to, so I would like 699 00:27:58,180 --> 00:28:00,079 to see this come back to us eventually. 700 00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:02,240 >> Right, well, we are talking about updating it. 701 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,420 So my plan was I was going to submit a budget package to 702 00:28:05,420 --> 00:28:08,079 get the funding to update our bike plan. 703 00:28:08,079 --> 00:28:11,329 That's something that goes on right now during the budget 704 00:28:11,329 --> 00:28:12,039 season. 705 00:28:12,039 --> 00:28:16,970 So we submit budget supplementals, I want to say it's in 706 00:28:16,970 --> 00:28:17,559 May. 707 00:28:17,559 --> 00:28:20,160 And then, you know, city council votes on our budget, and 708 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,000 then in October we get a new budget, 709 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,000 depending on if city council approves my budget package. 710 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,319 >> Right, okay. 711 00:28:28,319 --> 00:28:29,319 >> Commissioner Dottowich. 712 00:28:29,319 --> 00:28:33,420 >> I think by what you heard from this commission, we would 713 00:28:33,420 --> 00:28:34,279 endorse that. 714 00:28:34,279 --> 00:28:36,980 Maybe you could go to city council and say planning and 715 00:28:36,980 --> 00:28:38,680 zoning has endorsed an update. 716 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:39,920 Can it be funded? 717 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,720 So that would be something that you could hang your hat on 718 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,269 and have some leverage that this commission is suggesting 719 00:28:46,269 --> 00:28:47,200 that you follow that. 720 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:48,039 So, Mike? 721 00:28:48,039 --> 00:28:49,279 >> That would be, yeah. 722 00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:51,079 It's been my plan, so that's great. 723 00:28:51,079 --> 00:28:52,279 I'm glad we're all on the same page. 724 00:28:52,279 --> 00:28:53,359 >> How much? 725 00:28:53,359 --> 00:28:53,880 >> I like it. 726 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:58,079 >> Okay. 727 00:28:58,079 --> 00:28:59,119 >> I'm done talking now. 728 00:28:59,119 --> 00:28:59,640 Thank you. 729 00:29:02,039 --> 00:29:03,839 >> Okay, so here's some census data. 730 00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:08,309 Like I said, census data counts just those commuting to 731 00:29:08,309 --> 00:29:09,039 work. 732 00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:11,960 So I went and used the census data. 733 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,480 It's the 2014 American Community Survey Means of 734 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,200 Transportation to Work. 735 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,440 And this is how we compare to some other places. 736 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:25,440 So you can see the US, we are better than the US. 737 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,680 Like nationally, those are national numbers. 738 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,359 We're better than our state as well. 739 00:29:31,359 --> 00:29:33,549 We're actually a little bit better than Dallas, so that's 740 00:29:33,549 --> 00:29:34,119 exciting. 741 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,279 Here we are compared to other Texas cities. 742 00:29:40,279 --> 00:29:43,440 It's worth it to note that Austin and Richardson are both 743 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,950 recognized as bicycle friendly communities from the League 744 00:29:46,950 --> 00:29:48,720 of American Bicyclists. 745 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,160 You can see that we have a higher mode share. 746 00:29:52,359 --> 00:29:53,680 Okay, actually, I should clarify. 747 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,680 This is mode share of everybody who commutes to work. 748 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,990 So the census has different categories, either you drive 749 00:30:00,990 --> 00:30:04,309 alone, you carpool, you take transit, you walk, you work 750 00:30:04,309 --> 00:30:06,160 from home, or you bike. 751 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,839 And this is our mode share of those people who commute to 752 00:30:09,839 --> 00:30:12,160 work, and this is those groups that walk or bike. 753 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,950 So you can see that we have 0.9 people who, percent of our 754 00:30:17,950 --> 00:30:22,000 commuters who bike, and 3.8 of our commuters who walk. 755 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,880 We are slightly better than Richardson, we're better than 756 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,000 Fort Worth a little bit as well. 757 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,450 So that's just us compared to them, in case you were 758 00:30:31,450 --> 00:30:32,119 curious. 759 00:30:32,119 --> 00:30:32,759 >> Commissioner Beck. 760 00:30:32,759 --> 00:30:34,200 >> Thank you. 761 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:39,170 Just for clarification, so like 0.9% of the 100, roughly 762 00:30:39,170 --> 00:30:41,400 120,000 people that you have? 763 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:46,359 >> Not the entire population, just the working population. 764 00:30:46,359 --> 00:30:47,720 >> Okay. 765 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,019 >> I'm sorry, I don't have that number, but I do have it in 766 00:30:50,019 --> 00:30:52,880 charts that I downloaded from census. 767 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,299 But it's not entire population, it's only people who are 16 768 00:30:56,299 --> 00:30:57,039 and over. 769 00:30:57,039 --> 00:30:58,160 Those who would go to work. 770 00:30:58,160 --> 00:30:59,799 >> 16 and over. 771 00:30:59,799 --> 00:31:02,460 >> Correct, so this is just commuting to work, it's not 772 00:31:02,460 --> 00:31:05,519 like people who are riding their bike to school or. 773 00:31:05,519 --> 00:31:06,839 >> No. 774 00:31:06,839 --> 00:31:08,359 >> Yeah. 775 00:31:08,359 --> 00:31:11,490 You can see Portland, which is kind of the national 776 00:31:11,490 --> 00:31:14,319 standard along with Minneapolis and Chicago. 777 00:31:14,319 --> 00:31:16,319 They have a very high mode share. 778 00:31:16,319 --> 00:31:20,259 They have 6.3% of their commuters that bike to work, which 779 00:31:20,259 --> 00:31:21,839 is fairly impressive. 780 00:31:21,839 --> 00:31:23,920 I also want to highlight Bellingham, Washington. 781 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,799 It's a city that's just a little bit smaller than Denton, 782 00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:28,160 it doesn't have a college. 783 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,000 And they have not the best weather. 784 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,819 It's very rainy there, and so it's just, I bring this up to 785 00:31:34,819 --> 00:31:39,470 point out that weather doesn't often play a large factor in 786 00:31:39,470 --> 00:31:46,599 those who choose to bike or walk to work. 787 00:31:46,599 --> 00:31:51,240 Here's data that's just for Denton, so I took the American 788 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,009 Community Survey data over the years to see what Denton 789 00:31:55,009 --> 00:31:57,519 looked like with our bike and walk mode share. 790 00:31:57,519 --> 00:32:00,180 And you can see we've actually been declining just a little 791 00:32:00,180 --> 00:32:00,559 bit. 792 00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:06,680 I'm not a demographer, I don't quite know why that is. 793 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,960 Could be that gas prices have gone down, perhaps it's, you 794 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,039 know, many choices, who knows. 795 00:32:12,039 --> 00:32:16,119 But we did have a high of 1.7 back in 2009. 796 00:32:16,119 --> 00:32:19,029 And we're still actually fairly good on people who walk to 797 00:32:19,029 --> 00:32:19,519 work. 798 00:32:19,519 --> 00:32:23,279 So, these are definitely numbers I think we can increase. 799 00:32:23,279 --> 00:32:25,910 That's my job too, and you know, make sure these numbers 800 00:32:25,910 --> 00:32:26,839 are increased. 801 00:32:26,839 --> 00:32:29,720 >> Gas prices were the highest in 2009. 802 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:35,730 >> Yeah, and I imagine that probably played a role in, yeah 803 00:32:35,730 --> 00:32:36,160 . 804 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:40,069 As I mentioned earlier about getting better data, you know, 805 00:32:40,069 --> 00:32:41,960 we count with volunteers. 806 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,519 We love using them, but the data is very limited. 807 00:32:45,519 --> 00:32:47,839 So, there are these mobile count units. 808 00:32:47,839 --> 00:32:48,920 The COG has them. 809 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,930 They have two that they can loan out to different 810 00:32:51,930 --> 00:32:54,519 municipalities in the North Texas region. 811 00:32:54,519 --> 00:32:58,839 And we did use some back in September to count on Mingo. 812 00:32:58,839 --> 00:33:02,279 I know that lots of cyclists use Mingo, but lots of cycl 813 00:33:02,279 --> 00:33:03,599 ists is very anecdotal. 814 00:33:03,599 --> 00:33:04,839 What is lots of cyclists? 815 00:33:04,839 --> 00:33:06,809 And I'm sorry I didn't include a slide, but it was actually 816 00:33:06,809 --> 00:33:09,160 a fair amount of cyclists on Mingo. 817 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,019 For a road that is not very friendly to cyclists, there 818 00:33:12,019 --> 00:33:13,599 were a surprising amount. 819 00:33:13,599 --> 00:33:16,869 And if you look at the bike count report, there's actually 820 00:33:16,869 --> 00:33:20,160 a graph in there of the cyclists who are using Mingo. 821 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:21,359 So, I just wanted to get a count. 822 00:33:21,359 --> 00:33:23,000 I borrowed these from COG. 823 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:24,640 We really liked using them. 824 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,319 There's a little bit of a learning curve on getting them 825 00:33:28,319 --> 00:33:31,000 installed, but we got it to work out. 826 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:32,599 And we'd like to use these more. 827 00:33:32,599 --> 00:33:35,660 I plan to use these this spring to count some locations in 828 00:33:35,660 --> 00:33:37,319 the spring and the summer. 829 00:33:37,319 --> 00:33:40,460 But we would also like to purchase a unit ourselves so we 830 00:33:40,460 --> 00:33:42,160 can start our own bike count program 831 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:43,400 of getting continuous data. 832 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,519 So, this data, we can put these tubes out there and count 833 00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:49,839 for two weeks all day, all night, 834 00:33:49,839 --> 00:33:53,309 24 hours instead of just two to two hours and then try to 835 00:33:53,309 --> 00:33:55,039 extrapolate from there. 836 00:33:55,039 --> 00:33:57,339 So, I'm also going to be submitting a budget package to 837 00:33:57,339 --> 00:34:00,440 purchase a mobile count unit for ourselves. 838 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,599 But until then, I will be able to use them from the COG to 839 00:34:03,599 --> 00:34:05,960 do some counts this spring and summer. 840 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:12,119 And that is the end. 841 00:34:12,119 --> 00:34:16,719 So, does anybody have any questions? 842 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,800 I left Beverly plenty of time. 843 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,239 >> Commissioner Hussbett. 844 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,920 >> I was making notes. 845 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,880 I wanted to make sure we got to the end. 846 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:27,519 So, pardon me. 847 00:34:27,519 --> 00:34:28,280 I'm going to go back. 848 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:28,920 >> Go back. 849 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:29,440 That's fine. 850 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,119 >> But it's okay. 851 00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:35,360 So, I wanted to make sure I understood the goals. 852 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,179 So, I go back and I look at the goal statement and the 853 00:34:38,179 --> 00:34:39,639 first and second goal. 854 00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:42,530 What jumps out to me and kind of talked about pathing 855 00:34:42,530 --> 00:34:43,239 before. 856 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,000 Well, let me back up. 857 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:51,809 First, I'm curious, it doesn't seem like there's 858 00:34:51,809 --> 00:34:53,760 connectivity, right? 859 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,800 So, for example, you put loop 288 in so that people can get 860 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,039 from one side of the city to the other. 861 00:35:00,039 --> 00:35:03,809 Kind of a seamless, if you're going to go to the other side 862 00:35:03,809 --> 00:35:06,880 of this city, you can use loop 288 to get there. 863 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:11,440 And this seems kind of, I'm curious, has there been any 864 00:35:14,119 --> 00:35:17,760 Efforts in making sure what we're doing connects so that we 865 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:22,440 don't have a lane on Malone that ends. 866 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:27,449 And then you got to go another six, seven, eight blocks to 867 00:35:27,449 --> 00:35:28,840 another ride. 868 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,639 >> Right. >> What is the plan ultimately? 869 00:35:31,639 --> 00:35:34,320 So, if I look at an overlay and say, here's the plan. 870 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,159 Here's where most people, if they're commuting to UNT, they 871 00:35:37,159 --> 00:35:38,239 're commuting to TW. 872 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:42,280 >> Right. >> Here's a path that we've kind of gradually 873 00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:46,190 implemented that then achieves that goal and kind of covers 874 00:35:46,190 --> 00:35:47,079 the city. 875 00:35:47,079 --> 00:35:52,960 So, I'm curious about that, but in addition to that, 876 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:58,519 looking at the goals, Goal 2 talks about promote and the 877 00:35:58,519 --> 00:35:59,960 increase and 878 00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:03,119 use of safety of bicycling, walking, so on and so forth. 879 00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:08,440 So that to me jumps out because I think it's important to 880 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:08,760 note, 881 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,800 if we're trying to increase, that means we have new users. 882 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:12,559 New users. 883 00:36:12,559 --> 00:36:13,239 >> Correct. 884 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:17,019 >> May not be as comfortable on busy streets, which takes 885 00:36:17,019 --> 00:36:18,440 me to, I would much prefer 886 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,289 something like you have going through next to the rail 887 00:36:23,289 --> 00:36:24,480 station. 888 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:25,360 I mean the rail. 889 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:26,639 >> A separated trail? 890 00:36:26,639 --> 00:36:27,320 >> Yes. 891 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,159 I just think that's, cars run into cars, right? 892 00:36:31,159 --> 00:36:32,480 I mean, that's just a fact. 893 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,880 So, cars are going to run into bikes. 894 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,530 I mean, it just, it's, but if you put them on a trail, they 895 00:36:39,530 --> 00:36:40,079 're safe. 896 00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:43,170 If I'm a new user, my daughter's a new user, we're 897 00:36:43,170 --> 00:36:46,119 comfortable going there and just riding wherever we're 898 00:36:46,119 --> 00:36:46,719 going. 899 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,000 And so I think that's, so those two go hand in hand. 900 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:52,360 Connectivity and trails, because then you can kind of make 901 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,000 a path that covers the city, 902 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:59,000 that keeps cars and safe and 903 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,719 bikes, bicyclists safe as well. 904 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:07,449 I mean, I don't know if that's popular, but it just, when I 905 00:37:07,449 --> 00:37:08,719 look at the goals, 906 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,469 and if I'm new, I'm not going to be in a hurry to jump on 907 00:37:12,469 --> 00:37:18,679 anything, you know, that's risky, if you will. 908 00:37:18,679 --> 00:37:22,010 >> There's a broad range of cyclists out there, and there's 909 00:37:22,010 --> 00:37:23,280 what we call the interested but 910 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,949 concerned group, which is probably what the group you would 911 00:37:25,949 --> 00:37:26,599 fall into. 912 00:37:26,599 --> 00:37:28,710 Those people want to ride their bike, but again, they're 913 00:37:28,710 --> 00:37:30,239 like, I don't know, do I feel safe? 914 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,289 I know I can ride my bike on the trail and I feel safe 915 00:37:32,289 --> 00:37:33,760 there, but what about on the roads? 916 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:35,519 Oh no, that's so scary. 917 00:37:35,519 --> 00:37:38,199 Those are the kind of people that want to have a bike lane, 918 00:37:38,199 --> 00:37:39,239 a dedicated bike lane, 919 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,000 want a protected bike lane or a buffered bike lane. 920 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,940 And that's how you, that's the best way to get new riders 921 00:37:44,940 --> 00:37:47,280 is building that infrastructure for them. 922 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,159 But you also have to teach them how to use those. 923 00:37:50,159 --> 00:37:53,360 So that's a part of my job is education and encouragement. 924 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,210 So we have city bike rides, if you're not comfortable on 925 00:37:56,210 --> 00:37:57,039 the streets, 926 00:37:57,039 --> 00:37:59,610 I would recommend you come to one of our sponsored bike 927 00:37:59,610 --> 00:38:01,119 rides and ride with a group first. 928 00:38:01,119 --> 00:38:04,360 We always ride on the streets to get yourself comfortable. 929 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,269 I do believe that cars and bicyclists can cooperate safely 930 00:38:08,269 --> 00:38:09,920 on the road together. 931 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,159 We don't, there don't have to be accidents. 932 00:38:14,679 --> 00:38:16,769 The Netherlands has so many cyclists and they don't have 933 00:38:16,769 --> 00:38:18,360 accidents with cars. 934 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,019 It's possible, it's definitely possible to do it, you just 935 00:38:21,019 --> 00:38:23,039 have to build the right infrastructure. 936 00:38:23,039 --> 00:38:25,429 So we're working on a network, as you can see, so this is 937 00:38:25,429 --> 00:38:26,079 our bike plan. 938 00:38:26,079 --> 00:38:28,489 Sorry, I didn't bring my printed copy this time, I have a 939 00:38:28,489 --> 00:38:29,000 big one. 940 00:38:30,639 --> 00:38:34,570 But we, this is our network that's supposed to connect our 941 00:38:34,570 --> 00:38:36,320 streets together on a bike network. 942 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,800 Obviously a network doesn't happen overnight. 943 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,269 We're funded $200,000 each year, that's not going to give 944 00:38:44,269 --> 00:38:47,320 us our entire network in three years. 945 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,880 So at first I started out little bits and pieces here based 946 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:51,239 on, 947 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,260 well we're doing a street project here, let's piggyback on 948 00:38:54,260 --> 00:38:54,760 that. 949 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,920 And we're kind of now getting to a point where we're 950 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,519 picking up those pieces of connecting our network together. 951 00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:04,880 And I actually have a slide from another presentation that 952 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:08,679 will show that better. 953 00:39:08,679 --> 00:39:13,909 So you can see here, pre-bike plan, that's what we had for 954 00:39:13,909 --> 00:39:14,920 bike accommodation. 955 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,760 And it really wasn't the best. 956 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,739 It wasn't even bike lanes or, you know, Cheros on Jago, Sh 957 00:39:23,739 --> 00:39:26,480 ady Oaks right there was just to share the road sign. 958 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:33,519 Then the bike plan, this is what we look like right now. 959 00:39:33,519 --> 00:39:36,940 We've been slowly adding pieces together to create a 960 00:39:36,940 --> 00:39:37,559 network. 961 00:39:37,559 --> 00:39:40,309 And then our projects for this year adds even more 962 00:39:40,309 --> 00:39:41,360 connectivity. 963 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,429 So we're building our network road by road, and we're 964 00:39:45,429 --> 00:39:46,960 finally getting to a point, you know, 965 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,320 where we've been doing infrastructure for, you know, three, 966 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,400 four years of building a much more connected network. 967 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,719 But it takes a little bit of time. 968 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:57,639 >> Can it continue? 969 00:39:57,639 --> 00:39:58,079 >> Thank you. 970 00:39:58,079 --> 00:39:58,400 Thank you. 971 00:39:58,400 --> 00:39:58,920 I'm sorry. 972 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,519 >> Well, I just wanted to make sure. 973 00:40:00,519 --> 00:40:01,199 >> Go ahead. 974 00:40:01,199 --> 00:40:01,679 No, no. 975 00:40:01,679 --> 00:40:02,480 I got a lot. 976 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:03,039 >> Okay. 977 00:40:03,039 --> 00:40:03,880 Commissioner Beck. 978 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:05,719 >> Thank you. 979 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:09,530 I couldn't agree more that if we had dedicated paths that 980 00:40:09,530 --> 00:40:12,480 would be the best possible thing for us. 981 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,179 But it appears like with a $200,000 a year budget that 982 00:40:16,179 --> 00:40:17,960 there's no way we can do that. 983 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,530 So apparently what we're trying to do here is work with 984 00:40:21,530 --> 00:40:24,559 existing roads and this limited budget to try and make that 985 00:40:24,559 --> 00:40:25,320 connectivity. 986 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,369 >> Right. You know, my job is on street infrastructure of 987 00:40:28,369 --> 00:40:31,960 getting people using their bikes for active transportation. 988 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,230 Parks does a lot with our off-road trails like the rail 989 00:40:35,230 --> 00:40:37,840 trail and our trails within our parks. 990 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,860 We want to work together so that it creates a network so 991 00:40:40,860 --> 00:40:44,280 you could use the rail trail and then use city streets to 992 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,519 get to where you want to go. 993 00:40:46,519 --> 00:40:50,889 Lots of cyclists want to ride on the street as well, though 994 00:40:50,889 --> 00:40:51,199 . 995 00:40:51,199 --> 00:40:55,639 Lots of times we can't build a rail trail everywhere, you 996 00:40:55,639 --> 00:40:55,639 know. 997 00:40:55,639 --> 00:40:59,050 But it works well for what it is right now and for what it 998 00:40:59,050 --> 00:41:01,559 serves, the people that it serves. 999 00:41:01,559 --> 00:41:02,000 And they're great. 1000 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:03,960 People love them. 1001 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:04,480 >> I agree. 1002 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:04,960 I agree. 1003 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:05,639 Thank you, sir. 1004 00:41:05,639 --> 00:41:06,400 Yes. 1005 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:07,480 >> Commissioner Hatchboth. 1006 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,280 >> Thank you, sir. 1007 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:17,039 And so that takes me to in the goals objectives here. 1008 00:41:17,039 --> 00:41:22,400 It touches on a public-private partnership. 1009 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,679 And so could you tell me what you've done in that regard? 1010 00:41:25,679 --> 00:41:31,639 Because I'm almost thinking, if I go to Target corporate 1011 00:41:31,639 --> 00:41:33,000 office and say, 1012 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:38,920 are you willing to invest or donate or 1013 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,420 have naming rights for this particular segment of a private 1014 00:41:42,420 --> 00:41:44,440 trail, it's Target's trail. 1015 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,639 With that, it's on every map, it's signed. 1016 00:41:48,639 --> 00:41:52,550 Are you willing to take some of your ad dollars, especially 1017 00:41:52,550 --> 00:41:54,869 in a climate today where most people aren't watching 1018 00:41:54,869 --> 00:41:55,440 commercials. 1019 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:56,639 They're fast-forwarding for them. 1020 00:41:56,639 --> 00:41:59,590 I mean, my kindergartner would absolutely melt if she had 1021 00:41:59,590 --> 00:42:00,920 to watch a commercial. 1022 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,119 I mean, she doesn't see them. 1023 00:42:02,119 --> 00:42:06,650 I mean, so I think those type retail agencies are looking 1024 00:42:06,650 --> 00:42:08,199 to do something different. 1025 00:42:08,199 --> 00:42:14,429 And I'm curious if we've approached them to get additional 1026 00:42:14,429 --> 00:42:16,440 funds in a creative way. 1027 00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:18,159 >> I can't speak to naming for trails. 1028 00:42:18,159 --> 00:42:20,440 Again, I don't work with our trail system. 1029 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,789 The Parks Department would be the one to work with Target 1030 00:42:22,789 --> 00:42:25,530 or some home office if they wanted to name a part of a 1031 00:42:25,530 --> 00:42:26,159 trail. 1032 00:42:26,159 --> 00:42:30,019 I don't quite know if we would have people name segments on 1033 00:42:30,019 --> 00:42:31,159 our streets. 1034 00:42:31,159 --> 00:42:34,469 But we could look for partnerships for education activities 1035 00:42:34,469 --> 00:42:34,719 . 1036 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,909 So I've worked with UNT and TWU, some local bike shops, we 1037 00:42:37,909 --> 00:42:40,559 've worked with them to promote Bike Month. 1038 00:42:40,559 --> 00:42:43,980 And that's where a lot of my public and private 1039 00:42:43,980 --> 00:42:46,239 partnerships go towards. 1040 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,269 As far as funding the actual bike infrastructure, we've 1041 00:42:49,269 --> 00:42:51,400 worked with UNT. 1042 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,039 They helped pay for a few things, I think, on Highland 1043 00:42:54,039 --> 00:42:54,679 Street. 1044 00:42:54,679 --> 00:42:56,980 But I don't think we could actually have somebody name a 1045 00:42:56,980 --> 00:42:57,960 segment on a street. 1046 00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:59,760 I don't know of anybody who's done that. 1047 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,840 >> And then one last thing, please. 1048 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:07,929 I think, it's okay if I'm wrong, but you gave an example of 1049 00:43:07,929 --> 00:43:09,760 where, New Zealand? 1050 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,280 >> I'm sorry, the Netherlands and Amsterdam, where they 1051 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:14,519 have cyclists. 1052 00:43:14,519 --> 00:43:16,880 >> I'm more of a practical application type person. 1053 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:21,780 So give me a state, give me something in the US in this 1054 00:43:21,780 --> 00:43:24,719 area that avoids accidents. 1055 00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:28,000 >> I think you gotta, so in the legal industry, you have to 1056 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,199 have something that's on point, right? 1057 00:43:30,199 --> 00:43:35,389 So you have, I can't in Texas cite a New York law and kind 1058 00:43:35,389 --> 00:43:36,079 of support it. 1059 00:43:36,079 --> 00:43:39,019 So I'd really like to get, let's compare apples to apples 1060 00:43:39,019 --> 00:43:41,199 just because it helps me understand. 1061 00:43:41,199 --> 00:43:43,159 I mean, I get it, there's a bigger picture. 1062 00:43:43,159 --> 00:43:45,159 I just, I'm narrow focused like that. 1063 00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:45,920 >> Right. 1064 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:51,150 >> What in this area tells you that there are cars, and I 1065 00:43:51,150 --> 00:43:54,000 know they can, but I'm just saying there's going, 1066 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,159 my statement was simply there are accidents. 1067 00:43:56,159 --> 00:43:59,400 >> Right. >> And it's unavoidable in my humble opinion. 1068 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:04,000 So that being said, what in this area leads you to think 1069 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,719 you can avoid all accidents? 1070 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,260 >> Well, avoiding all accidents may have to take away human 1071 00:44:09,260 --> 00:44:11,119 error at some point, which is not possible. 1072 00:44:11,119 --> 00:44:13,119 You're right, accidents will happen. 1073 00:44:13,119 --> 00:44:15,119 But we have to do our best to prevent them from happening, 1074 00:44:15,119 --> 00:44:17,000 so we do that by building safe infrastructure. 1075 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:21,280 We engineer for bad judgments in behavior. 1076 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,289 We do it all the time, we build our roads so they have 1077 00:44:23,289 --> 00:44:25,369 certain curves so that you're not going to get into an 1078 00:44:25,369 --> 00:44:26,079 accident. 1079 00:44:26,079 --> 00:44:27,719 We do that with our bike infrastructure as well. 1080 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,300 You're either going to build a protected bike lane or you 1081 00:44:30,300 --> 00:44:31,679 're going to have a buffer so 1082 00:44:31,679 --> 00:44:34,030 there's a little bit more separation between somebody 1083 00:44:34,030 --> 00:44:36,360 driving their car and somebody riding their bike. 1084 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:37,440 It's definitely possible. 1085 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,440 It's also just educating the public that we're all people. 1086 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,639 We're not motors, we're not cyclists, we're people who 1087 00:44:43,639 --> 00:44:46,000 choose these different ways of getting around. 1088 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,119 And if we can just be safe and kind to everybody on the 1089 00:44:49,119 --> 00:44:50,840 roadway, pay attention to them and 1090 00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:54,269 create everybody like people, I think that goes a long way 1091 00:44:54,269 --> 00:44:55,960 to making us safe as well. 1092 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,469 But there have been numerous cities and states that adopt 1093 00:44:59,469 --> 00:45:01,840 Vision Zero policy statements. 1094 00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:06,800 And then as staff and community, we work towards making 1095 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,320 that happen of Vision Zero, no accidents. 1096 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,000 I think Utah adopted one. 1097 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,590 I want to say Portland has a Vision Zero plan of having 1098 00:45:16,590 --> 00:45:19,039 zero accidents and fatalities. 1099 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:21,840 >> Okay. 1100 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:23,159 >> I can get more info if you want. 1101 00:45:23,159 --> 00:45:25,119 I'm sorry I don't have any right here with me, but. 1102 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:31,800 >> No, no, it was more just an insight into our look into 1103 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,639 kind of another perspective, right? 1104 00:45:34,639 --> 00:45:38,480 I mean, I just wanted to share kind of my approach. 1105 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,920 It's very, very one dimensional, if you will. 1106 00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,679 It's simply, I tell my daughters when we were kids and my 1107 00:45:45,679 --> 00:45:48,960 kindergarten now, hey, let's get out on the curbside. 1108 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,130 And we'll deal with the occasional car that's driving on 1109 00:45:51,130 --> 00:45:51,840 the sidewalk. 1110 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,210 But we don't have to, it's like you, to have a myriad of 1111 00:45:54,210 --> 00:45:56,590 rules that say, hey, get out, look both ways, this, that, 1112 00:45:56,590 --> 00:45:57,159 and the other. 1113 00:45:57,159 --> 00:46:00,320 That's effective, but it's also just as effective to say, 1114 00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,320 let's just deal with the car on occasion that ever drives 1115 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:04,079 on the sidewalk. 1116 00:46:04,079 --> 00:46:06,960 But we'll be on the sidewalk and kind of take that approach 1117 00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:07,159 . 1118 00:46:07,159 --> 00:46:08,000 >> Correct, yeah. 1119 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,860 >> That's my approach to the, I think there's an 1120 00:46:10,860 --> 00:46:14,880 opportunity pathing wise that would then also 1121 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,360 take the brunt of the traffic and then use the streets 1122 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:19,760 intermittently. 1123 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,599 And I think that would increase. 1124 00:46:22,599 --> 00:46:25,079 And so that's, I understand that's the parks department. 1125 00:46:25,079 --> 00:46:29,119 >> Right. >> And so I may see what opportunities are there 1126 00:46:29,119 --> 00:46:30,920 because I've seen the, 1127 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:33,809 I mean that is just absolutely great, the rail trail to go 1128 00:46:33,809 --> 00:46:35,719 from Denton to across the bridge. 1129 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:36,800 I mean that's phenomenal. 1130 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,119 >> Right. >> And you don't have to worry as much about 1131 00:46:40,119 --> 00:46:42,960 those intersections you have, stop signs you have. 1132 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:44,159 >> Right. >> An opportunity to look both ways. 1133 00:46:44,159 --> 00:46:47,239 It's kind of a clearly marked thing, so thank you. 1134 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:48,320 >> Yeah, you're welcome, yeah. 1135 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,400 The goal is to make it safe for everybody to ride their 1136 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:52,719 bike on the street. 1137 00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,019 I've gone to elementary schools and done safety 1138 00:46:55,019 --> 00:46:57,739 presentations so that kids learn from a young age how to be 1139 00:46:57,739 --> 00:46:58,840 safe on their bike. 1140 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:00,679 I just don't want people to be scared of their bikes. 1141 00:47:00,679 --> 00:47:04,190 I want them to feel safe when they're riding, to not have 1142 00:47:04,190 --> 00:47:05,599 to be fearful of it. 1143 00:47:05,599 --> 00:47:06,599 >> Absolutely, thank you. 1144 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:09,320 >> Commissioner Bribble. 1145 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:09,840 >> Thank you, Chair. 1146 00:47:11,519 --> 00:47:14,269 One more thing I'd like to add, if we do get an opportunity 1147 00:47:14,269 --> 00:47:16,199 to see this again, and I hope we do. 1148 00:47:16,199 --> 00:47:19,289 I know technically the name of the original document is the 1149 00:47:19,289 --> 00:47:22,039 comprehensive bicycle and pedestrian plan. 1150 00:47:22,039 --> 00:47:23,960 >> Right. >> It's not really a pedestrian plan. 1151 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,840 We don't have proposed sidewalk projects on there. 1152 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:33,039 In fact, I recall when city council was visiting this 1153 00:47:33,039 --> 00:47:33,639 document, 1154 00:47:33,639 --> 00:47:37,619 I had asked Councilman Rodin to ask a question about, they 1155 00:47:37,619 --> 00:47:39,679 were doing a workshop session on it. 1156 00:47:39,679 --> 00:47:41,679 How do people cross Hickory Street safely? 1157 00:47:41,679 --> 00:47:44,400 This was before the Grand Street project that they did. 1158 00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,000 And he was about to ask that question, but because he was 1159 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,440 leading, what we were hoping for is to lead up to this 1160 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,480 question, where are the sidewalks in this plan? 1161 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,579 >> Right. >> And the answer from the consultant was 1162 00:47:53,579 --> 00:47:55,159 basically this is more of a bike plan. 1163 00:47:56,159 --> 00:47:57,440 And it is really more of a bike plan. 1164 00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,320 >> Right. >> And we have a challenge, 1165 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,300 high school students getting hit trying to walk to Ryan 1166 00:48:02,300 --> 00:48:03,159 High School. 1167 00:48:03,159 --> 00:48:06,780 And I know that the city's working on getting control over 1168 00:48:06,780 --> 00:48:09,519 McKinney Street so we can, anyway. 1169 00:48:09,519 --> 00:48:12,369 >> My general question is, I'd really like it if we could 1170 00:48:12,369 --> 00:48:15,699 look at also pedestrian accommodations in the future bike 1171 00:48:15,699 --> 00:48:17,119 and pedestrian plan. 1172 00:48:17,119 --> 00:48:18,639 You have counts for pedestrians. 1173 00:48:18,639 --> 00:48:21,269 We have a higher percentage of pedestrians than cyclists 1174 00:48:21,269 --> 00:48:22,280 who are commuters. 1175 00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:26,320 So I'd like to see that come to us in the next go around. 1176 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,800 Where are we building sidewalks and where do we need them? 1177 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,809 >> Right, yeah, and sidewalks is obviously a much larger 1178 00:48:31,809 --> 00:48:33,239 issue than just myself. 1179 00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,349 We do all of our streets department, various engineering 1180 00:48:36,349 --> 00:48:37,320 departments. 1181 00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,159 >> This would be a good time though to tackle that. 1182 00:48:39,159 --> 00:48:40,119 >> Right, I agree, yeah. 1183 00:48:40,119 --> 00:48:43,280 And the name, my boss absolutely hates the name. 1184 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:44,920 >> There's no pedestrian stuff in there. 1185 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,440 >> And I just call it the Denton Bike Plan because it's a 1186 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:49,719 very long name. 1187 00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:52,690 But yeah, that's definitely something we're going to tackle 1188 00:48:52,690 --> 00:48:52,920 . 1189 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,030 Hopefully, we get funding to update the plan that it won't 1190 00:48:56,030 --> 00:48:57,400 have this awful name. 1191 00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,170 >> Or that if it does, it does actually address pedestrian 1192 00:48:59,170 --> 00:48:59,559 issues. 1193 00:48:59,559 --> 00:49:03,119 >> It absolutely needs to be a separate pedestrian plan. 1194 00:49:03,119 --> 00:49:04,159 >> Right. 1195 00:49:04,159 --> 00:49:05,239 >> Yeah. >> Thank you. 1196 00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:06,719 >> You're welcome. 1197 00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:07,639 >> Any other questions for Julie? 1198 00:49:10,159 --> 00:49:13,920 >> Well, thank you. 1199 00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:14,440 Good job. 1200 00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:14,960 >> Thank you, everybody. 1201 00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:21,719 >> We've got one other item for work session. 1202 00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,400 We do have food this evening, so I think what we're going 1203 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:25,960 to do while we're changing and 1204 00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,289 getting ready for our next work session, let's take a break 1205 00:49:28,289 --> 00:49:28,960 and get food. 1206 00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:32,119 We're going to take a break here at 554. 1207 00:49:32,119 --> 00:49:37,719 [BLANK_AUDIO] 1208 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:42,400 >> Session, our next report at 602, and 1209 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:48,559 our next item is going to be item B, PZ 16-040. 1210 00:49:48,559 --> 00:49:50,760 >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners. 1211 00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,599 Tonight, I'm presenting a report and 1212 00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:57,449 a discussion item about the anticipated Denton Development 1213 00:49:57,449 --> 00:49:59,239 Code Amendment Project. 1214 00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,380 So just to kind of give you some background, this staff is 1215 00:50:02,380 --> 00:50:04,079 currently exploring 1216 00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:07,969 the option of hiring some professional services support to 1217 00:50:07,969 --> 00:50:09,440 do a more comprehensive, 1218 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,980 a very comprehensive code amendment project that includes 1219 00:50:12,980 --> 00:50:14,519 reformatting the code, 1220 00:50:14,519 --> 00:50:16,909 reorganizing the code, and some general updates and clean 1221 00:50:16,909 --> 00:50:18,639 ups that are really needed in the code. 1222 00:50:18,639 --> 00:50:21,630 But tonight's presentation is really more focused on some 1223 00:50:21,630 --> 00:50:23,159 staff initiated updates. 1224 00:50:23,159 --> 00:50:25,980 We have some new staff that have really taken a close look 1225 00:50:25,980 --> 00:50:26,679 at the code, 1226 00:50:26,679 --> 00:50:30,530 kind of measured it against other codes that we've worked 1227 00:50:30,530 --> 00:50:31,119 with and 1228 00:50:31,119 --> 00:50:33,659 codes that we've learned about and at our professional 1229 00:50:33,659 --> 00:50:35,119 development conferences. 1230 00:50:35,119 --> 00:50:37,199 And so we've really, and then worked with the staff to 1231 00:50:37,199 --> 00:50:39,800 really identify some of the more pressing amendments that 1232 00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:40,760 are in order at this time. 1233 00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:42,820 So I'd like to go through some of the things that we're 1234 00:50:42,820 --> 00:50:44,880 proposing to bring to you in upcoming months. 1235 00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:51,480 Just before we get started, we typically attend a lot of 1236 00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:52,960 professional development conferences. 1237 00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:54,920 And of course, we do a lot of benchmark studies. 1238 00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,769 But a typical feature at a conference is a developer 1239 00:50:57,769 --> 00:50:58,840 presentation. 1240 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,630 And we see those in our planning magazines and our websites 1241 00:51:02,630 --> 00:51:04,679 that we visit for professional development. 1242 00:51:04,679 --> 00:51:06,489 And of course, these presentations that we attend at 1243 00:51:06,489 --> 00:51:07,840 conferences are pretty important. 1244 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,079 I usually attend those and they're a regular feature. 1245 00:51:10,079 --> 00:51:11,949 Because I always want to hear what the development 1246 00:51:11,949 --> 00:51:13,960 community has to say about process improvements. 1247 00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,039 And I've sometimes brought that back to communities I've 1248 00:51:16,039 --> 00:51:18,449 worked with and tried to integrate their comments into 1249 00:51:18,449 --> 00:51:20,760 making the process more effective. 1250 00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:23,690 So these, what we have before you are just a couple of 1251 00:51:23,690 --> 00:51:25,159 examples, Planner's Web. 1252 00:51:25,159 --> 00:51:28,880 And a couple other examples of some presentation slides 1253 00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:30,960 that I requested after I came back. 1254 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:32,730 Said, hey, can I have your presentation and maybe use some 1255 00:51:32,730 --> 00:51:33,280 of your slides? 1256 00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,000 And they provided those to you. 1257 00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,550 When I go to those conferences, we do see some reoccurring 1258 00:51:37,550 --> 00:51:38,119 themes. 1259 00:51:38,119 --> 00:51:41,900 And some of those include developers continually artic 1260 00:51:41,900 --> 00:51:44,599 ulating the need for an understandable process. 1261 00:51:44,599 --> 00:51:46,570 We need to know what it begins with, what it ends with, and 1262 00:51:46,570 --> 00:51:48,280 we need to know what that timeline looks like. 1263 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,579 And we need to know that staff is competent in that 1264 00:51:50,579 --> 00:51:51,239 timeline. 1265 00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:54,119 Again, it comes up that they want predictability. 1266 00:51:54,119 --> 00:51:56,170 They want to know that it's going to go the way it's 1267 00:51:56,170 --> 00:51:58,360 intended, that we can stick to our timelines. 1268 00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:01,159 They want consistency in interpretations of the code from 1269 00:52:01,159 --> 00:52:03,880 multiple staff members if their project spans the turn up 1270 00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:05,119 staff turnover. 1271 00:52:05,119 --> 00:52:07,719 Or if they end up with a different project reviewer. 1272 00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,360 And again and again, they repeat that they want flexibility 1273 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:10,559 . 1274 00:52:10,559 --> 00:52:12,519 They want some flexibility in the code. 1275 00:52:12,519 --> 00:52:15,190 Not so much that they can do whatever they want, but this 1276 00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:16,719 is good and this is also good. 1277 00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:18,559 You can do one or the other whatever works for you. 1278 00:52:18,559 --> 00:52:19,719 And this is a repeated theme. 1279 00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:23,719 At the national conference, our former APA president talked 1280 00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:27,019 with multiple national developers who talked about the need 1281 00:52:27,019 --> 00:52:28,159 for administrative approvals. 1282 00:52:28,159 --> 00:52:31,320 It's possible to get those integrated into the code when 1283 00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:32,159 possible. 1284 00:52:32,159 --> 00:52:33,920 So I'll talk a little bit more about that. 1285 00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,800 Again, just to highlight some of the things that we 1286 00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:38,280 routinely hear about. 1287 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,440 The need to encourage flexibility within the code. 1288 00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,480 This is good, this is good, and this is also good. 1289 00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,719 You pick what works for you, developer. 1290 00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:49,639 And this is another presentation at a national conference 1291 00:52:49,639 --> 00:52:53,760 that in flexible processes sometimes stifle creativity and 1292 00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,280 eliminate the potential for good urban design, strict 1293 00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:00,219 standards sometimes eliminate that chance to really achieve 1294 00:53:00,219 --> 00:53:02,960 a better and a higher site development standard. 1295 00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:04,980 But more importantly, and this is one that really had an 1296 00:53:04,980 --> 00:53:08,920 impact on me, and it's a summary piece that came from the 1297 00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:09,760 planners web. 1298 00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:11,480 Are you strangling your development community? 1299 00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:14,010 But actually this really reiterates some stuff that I've 1300 00:53:14,010 --> 00:53:15,440 heard at multiple conferences. 1301 00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:18,710 Successful processes can be extensive, but it's okay if 1302 00:53:18,710 --> 00:53:19,840 they're clear. 1303 00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,070 They can be very extensive, but if they're clear, 1304 00:53:23,070 --> 00:53:25,400 developers will respond to that. 1305 00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:26,880 The expectations can be high. 1306 00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,179 It is not the regulations that scare them away, it's the 1307 00:53:29,179 --> 00:53:29,920 uncertainty. 1308 00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:33,659 But if they're known, the regulations, then it conveys a 1309 00:53:33,659 --> 00:53:36,199 certain confidence to developers. 1310 00:53:36,199 --> 00:53:39,559 And reviews can be deliberate, but they can also be timely. 1311 00:53:39,559 --> 00:53:42,230 So let us know what the timeline's going to be to make that 1312 00:53:42,230 --> 00:53:43,119 happen for us. 1313 00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:47,710 Working with staff, we have identified some potential code 1314 00:53:47,710 --> 00:53:51,760 amendments that we'd like to bring forward to you. 1315 00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:54,239 Again, these would be staff initiated code amendments. 1316 00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:57,519 We look towards a larger project at some point, and we will 1317 00:53:57,519 --> 00:53:59,719 talk more about that in the future. 1318 00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,610 But these are some things as some of the new planners who 1319 00:54:02,610 --> 00:54:05,530 are new to the team have sat down through the DRC process 1320 00:54:05,530 --> 00:54:05,800 and 1321 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:10,110 identified and things that we have found really are 1322 00:54:10,110 --> 00:54:12,480 problematic in the code. 1323 00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:15,630 So just to talk about some of the challenges that we've 1324 00:54:15,630 --> 00:54:18,440 identified, there are some unclear standards in the code. 1325 00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,989 We have some staff here tonight that could probably give 1326 00:54:21,989 --> 00:54:25,989 you a host of examples, but just a couple examples would be 1327 00:54:25,989 --> 00:54:27,079 buffering. 1328 00:54:27,079 --> 00:54:29,480 There's a couple different interpretations. 1329 00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:30,199 Is it the use? 1330 00:54:30,199 --> 00:54:30,880 Is it the zone? 1331 00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,679 Historically, it's been the use in the community. 1332 00:54:33,679 --> 00:54:35,800 I think I sat down with Jennifer and made a compelling 1333 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,219 argument that it's use and zone, because the language isn't 1334 00:54:38,219 --> 00:54:38,800 clear. 1335 00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,900 It's hard to tell what section is a clause of another 1336 00:54:41,900 --> 00:54:44,840 section, and you could make a compelling case either way. 1337 00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:48,800 And it really depends on the interpretation of whoever at 1338 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:51,519 that point is making that decision. 1339 00:54:51,519 --> 00:54:53,159 Another example would be articulation. 1340 00:54:53,159 --> 00:54:55,079 We call for non-residential articulation. 1341 00:54:55,079 --> 00:54:57,480 We don't give any sort of standards for that. 1342 00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:58,840 What does a projection look like? 1343 00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:00,039 How much should it project? 1344 00:55:00,039 --> 00:55:01,760 What does a recess look like? 1345 00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:03,800 Architectural features, how often should they repeat? 1346 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,480 These are typical things that you find in other codes that 1347 00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:07,599 give guidance to staff. 1348 00:55:07,599 --> 00:55:09,360 But also give guidance to the developer. 1349 00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:10,960 What's the staff going to expect? 1350 00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:12,280 Let's bring it to them every time. 1351 00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:14,480 Inconsistent standards. 1352 00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:16,780 We have standards in our code that conflict with our design 1353 00:55:16,780 --> 00:55:20,199 criteria manuals, which also stipulate how site layout 1354 00:55:20,199 --> 00:55:21,440 should occur. 1355 00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,159 And these manuals are used in tandem. 1356 00:55:24,159 --> 00:55:26,679 They're more specific than the code, but there's conflicts. 1357 00:55:26,679 --> 00:55:28,360 An example would be perimeter fencing. 1358 00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:31,460 Higher standard is called for in the design criteria manual 1359 00:55:31,460 --> 00:55:34,039 than it's called for in our debt and development code. 1360 00:55:34,039 --> 00:55:37,210 And that created a little discussion at one DRC, which one 1361 00:55:37,210 --> 00:55:38,400 should we go with? 1362 00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,699 And one has the better standard, but one is the prevailing 1363 00:55:40,699 --> 00:55:41,199 document. 1364 00:55:41,199 --> 00:55:42,880 There's unclear standards. 1365 00:55:44,519 --> 00:55:49,000 Another inconsistency is parking lot screening. 1366 00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:51,710 We have a standard if parking is in front, but we have an 1367 00:55:51,710 --> 00:55:54,559 overall standard for parking against the right of way. 1368 00:55:54,559 --> 00:55:56,039 Which one is at play? 1369 00:55:56,039 --> 00:55:58,820 When you have both at the same time, there's been different 1370 00:55:58,820 --> 00:56:00,239 interpretations on that. 1371 00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:03,530 There's a whole host of inconsistent standards that I could 1372 00:56:03,530 --> 00:56:07,000 cite and staff could spend a good bit of time looking at. 1373 00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:08,039 Atypical language. 1374 00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:11,469 Our special exception language in our code that is not part 1375 00:56:11,469 --> 00:56:13,360 of our non-conforming section, 1376 00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:18,360 which basically exempts anything that was non-conforming at 1377 00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,519 the time of the adoption of the development code from the 1378 00:56:21,519 --> 00:56:23,239 non-conforming status. 1379 00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,159 This is very atypical. 1380 00:56:25,159 --> 00:56:28,449 Some cities like to slowly bring non-conforming uses into 1381 00:56:28,449 --> 00:56:30,639 the fold and make them conforming. 1382 00:56:30,639 --> 00:56:33,320 They have maybe generous grace periods. 1383 00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,219 They have trigger tables that slowly integrate those uses 1384 00:56:36,219 --> 00:56:36,679 back. 1385 00:56:36,679 --> 00:56:39,500 I've not seen a city that gives a sort of special 1386 00:56:39,500 --> 00:56:42,639 protection to those uses that can go on and even allow an 1387 00:56:42,639 --> 00:56:43,360 expansion of the use. 1388 00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:47,840 This is really an atypical code example. 1389 00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:48,719 >> Commissioner Beck. 1390 00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:49,440 >> Thank you, Chair. 1391 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:50,039 >> Excuse me. 1392 00:56:50,039 --> 00:56:50,559 >> Yes, sir. 1393 00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:53,360 >> Beverly, sorry. 1394 00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:54,760 >> Yes, sir. 1395 00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:58,079 >> Can you give us an example of conforming and non-con 1396 00:56:58,079 --> 00:56:58,880 forming? 1397 00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:00,400 What were you talking about? 1398 00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:05,570 >> For example, if you had a building that was, let's just 1399 00:57:05,570 --> 00:57:05,760 say, 1400 00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:08,230 all metal in a commercial district, in one of our 1401 00:57:08,230 --> 00:57:11,860 commercial districts, and there was now the zoning at the 1402 00:57:11,860 --> 00:57:13,440 time that it was built. 1403 00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:15,119 It may have been okay. 1404 00:57:15,119 --> 00:57:18,210 We may not have had a standard for metal in that particular 1405 00:57:18,210 --> 00:57:19,000 corridor. 1406 00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:20,969 Maybe it's an important corridor that we maybe wouldn't 1407 00:57:20,969 --> 00:57:21,920 want to see that type. 1408 00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:24,889 But it's a use, let's just say it is a kennel that's 1409 00:57:24,889 --> 00:57:29,019 located on an important corridor in the city and maybe that 1410 00:57:29,019 --> 00:57:30,320 use is no longer allowed. 1411 00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:34,579 We allow that use to have to, that particular use to even 1412 00:57:34,579 --> 00:57:37,920 grow on site and to have special status. 1413 00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:42,199 Typically cities that have non-conforming uses that maybe 1414 00:57:42,199 --> 00:57:44,090 aren't compatible with the vision of that new zoning 1415 00:57:44,090 --> 00:57:44,519 district or 1416 00:57:44,519 --> 00:57:46,909 the way the city's going or how that road is developing and 1417 00:57:46,909 --> 00:57:49,079 maybe it's a lot of residential occurring there. 1418 00:57:49,079 --> 00:57:51,880 Typically cities will say, okay, we have a new code now. 1419 00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:53,239 You are non-conforming use. 1420 00:57:53,239 --> 00:57:54,239 You are grandfathered. 1421 00:57:54,239 --> 00:57:56,639 That doesn't take away your right to operate. 1422 00:57:56,639 --> 00:57:59,869 But if you expand, we're going to take a look at that and 1423 00:57:59,869 --> 00:58:01,639 you may or may not be able to expand your use. 1424 00:58:01,639 --> 00:58:03,750 And if you do, if you expand your building, you have to 1425 00:58:03,750 --> 00:58:06,239 bring it into compliance with our development standards. 1426 00:58:06,239 --> 00:58:09,030 So it takes a look at those uses that might have been 1427 00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:10,719 legally cited at the time. 1428 00:58:10,719 --> 00:58:14,920 But then new code revisions that reflect the comp plan or 1429 00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:18,250 reflect the changing corridor or changing surrounding 1430 00:58:18,250 --> 00:58:19,199 properties. 1431 00:58:19,199 --> 00:58:24,619 It lets those slowly eventually either drop away or change 1432 00:58:24,619 --> 00:58:25,079 or 1433 00:58:25,079 --> 00:58:27,159 when they do change they have to come into compliance. 1434 00:58:27,159 --> 00:58:28,880 We don't require that. 1435 00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:30,239 >> Okay, great, thank you. 1436 00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,650 >> Some other, I think, atypical language is our parking 1437 00:58:34,650 --> 00:58:38,079 schedule doesn't match our table of uses. 1438 00:58:38,079 --> 00:58:41,250 Typically, parking lines up very closely so that if you 1439 00:58:41,250 --> 00:58:42,880 have this particular use, 1440 00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,969 restaurants, the table of uses lines up exactly with your 1441 00:58:45,969 --> 00:58:47,000 parking table. 1442 00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:51,239 We sometimes have to do some kind of guess work about what 1443 00:58:51,239 --> 00:58:51,800 applies and 1444 00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:56,440 where in our parking ratio requirements for the city. 1445 00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,639 because it doesn't line up exactly with all the uses. 1446 00:59:01,679 --> 00:59:04,050 Overlays in most communities are used to just elevate 1447 00:59:04,050 --> 00:59:05,559 standards. 1448 00:59:05,559 --> 00:59:08,199 They're typically for corridors or special districts. 1449 00:59:08,199 --> 00:59:10,800 We've used those a little differently in this community. 1450 00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,780 And you might see those in a interstate overlay or a 1451 00:59:14,780 --> 00:59:15,679 special district. 1452 00:59:15,679 --> 00:59:18,280 And we've used those kind of more site specific. 1453 00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:20,869 And that's really atypical for a lot of communities, how we 1454 00:59:20,869 --> 00:59:22,280 've identified overlays. 1455 00:59:24,039 --> 00:59:26,480 And then not developer friendly. 1456 00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:29,489 I know we have a lot of elements in our code that we allow 1457 00:59:29,489 --> 00:59:32,610 for some variation, but what developers want is some 1458 00:59:32,610 --> 00:59:33,519 predictability. 1459 00:59:33,519 --> 00:59:35,699 You may recall recently we brought to you the Dent 1460 00:59:35,699 --> 00:59:37,280 municipal electric standards, 1461 00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:42,480 which incorporated some routinely requested requirements 1462 00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:44,039 from the public and 1463 00:59:44,039 --> 00:59:48,000 from staff and ultimately from this commission. 1464 00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:49,889 They were typically approved when the sites were brought 1465 00:59:49,889 --> 00:59:50,320 forward. 1466 00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:52,239 So we said, we keep approving the same thing over and over 1467 00:59:52,239 --> 00:59:52,639 again. 1468 00:59:52,639 --> 00:59:54,880 Let's just get this integrated into our code. 1469 00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:56,840 We have an ADP process. 1470 00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:59,860 I can think of at least three times in my short time here 1471 00:59:59,860 --> 01:00:01,440 that I've sat in the DRC. 1472 01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,960 And I've had developers say, we'll do whatever you say. 1473 01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:08,150 We want to do front parking, we'll do whatever you say, we 1474 01:00:08,150 --> 01:00:08,920 'll screen it. 1475 01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,679 We will put all the landscaping you want. 1476 01:00:11,679 --> 01:00:13,360 Don't make us do the ADP. 1477 01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:14,719 We don't have a mechanism to do that. 1478 01:00:14,719 --> 01:00:17,440 But we keep requiring the same things. 1479 01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,639 And integrating those standards, those frequent flyer 1480 01:00:20,639 --> 01:00:24,159 standards into our process will add some predictability. 1481 01:00:24,159 --> 01:00:25,480 Yes, this is okay. 1482 01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:27,239 But this is also okay if you do it this way. 1483 01:00:27,239 --> 01:00:31,079 And maybe making that subject to conditions or limitations. 1484 01:00:31,079 --> 01:00:33,889 Giving the developer that sense that they don't have to run 1485 01:00:33,889 --> 01:00:35,320 the gauntlet every time. 1486 01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:37,849 But that we have a higher development standard if you 1487 01:00:37,849 --> 01:00:39,320 choose this alternative. 1488 01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:41,239 Parking is another example. 1489 01:00:41,239 --> 01:00:45,170 Allowing for giving bonuses for parking to be oriented 1490 01:00:45,170 --> 01:00:48,199 towards the rather than mandating that parking all be in 1491 01:00:48,199 --> 01:00:48,760 the rear. 1492 01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:50,190 Say, well if you're going to put it in the front, it's 1493 01:00:50,190 --> 01:00:51,119 going to be limited to this. 1494 01:00:51,119 --> 01:00:53,909 And it's going to be landscaped with interior, median, and 1495 01:00:53,909 --> 01:00:55,360 terminal parking islands. 1496 01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:57,980 If you drop to the rear, we'll drop some of that landsca 1497 01:00:57,980 --> 01:00:59,159 ping requirement. 1498 01:00:59,159 --> 01:01:02,320 Giving some bonus and flexibility, letting the developer 1499 01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:04,639 make the call and how he wants to do that. 1500 01:01:04,639 --> 01:01:07,869 There's buffering that has, I know Fort Worth has a point 1501 01:01:07,869 --> 01:01:10,400 system that they are trying to achieve an intensive and 1502 01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:11,199 effective buffer. 1503 01:01:11,199 --> 01:01:13,860 And the developer has to achieve a certain number of points 1504 01:01:13,860 --> 01:01:14,079 . 1505 01:01:14,079 --> 01:01:16,650 If he has a good masonry guy, he may integrate wall and 1506 01:01:16,650 --> 01:01:17,599 landscaping. 1507 01:01:17,599 --> 01:01:20,730 If he can move dirt, he may want to berm and double his 1508 01:01:20,730 --> 01:01:22,840 intensity of his landscaping. 1509 01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,789 The point is to get a good buffer and they have built in 1510 01:01:25,789 --> 01:01:29,039 some flexibility into their code rather than mandating a 1511 01:01:29,039 --> 01:01:30,719 strict standard on that. 1512 01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:35,519 I'm not going to go through each one of these. 1513 01:01:35,519 --> 01:01:37,820 It's just an overview of some of the, actually I'm going to 1514 01:01:37,820 --> 01:01:40,599 go through each one of these but not on this slide. 1515 01:01:40,599 --> 01:01:42,550 Overview of some of the things that we are proposing and I 1516 01:01:42,550 --> 01:01:43,920 'll just kind of go through those. 1517 01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,639 And this is just to kind of give you all a heads up. 1518 01:01:46,639 --> 01:01:50,210 Each of these, when we bring these forward, will be fully 1519 01:01:50,210 --> 01:01:51,199 developed. 1520 01:01:51,199 --> 01:01:53,539 We will go through with work sessions and bring these 1521 01:01:53,539 --> 01:01:55,039 amendments forward and look for 1522 01:01:55,039 --> 01:01:57,539 direction from this commission about how to best implement 1523 01:01:57,539 --> 01:01:58,559 some of these things. 1524 01:01:58,559 --> 01:02:00,110 These are just some of the things that are on our radar and 1525 01:02:00,110 --> 01:02:01,199 I'll go through these one by one. 1526 01:02:03,199 --> 01:02:05,119 The I-35 widening project. 1527 01:02:05,119 --> 01:02:07,960 There are several cities impacted by this. 1528 01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,719 One of the cities that I came from was impacted by this. 1529 01:02:10,719 --> 01:02:13,199 Lewisville was impacted by this. 1530 01:02:13,199 --> 01:02:16,079 The top right hand corner, you can see that Lewisville 1531 01:02:16,079 --> 01:02:19,159 adopted an ordinance that deals with the remainder that's 1532 01:02:19,159 --> 01:02:19,719 left. 1533 01:02:19,719 --> 01:02:22,269 They have distinguished between majorly impacted sites and 1534 01:02:22,269 --> 01:02:24,800 minorly impacted sites and that has been used. 1535 01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:27,199 They actually stipulate, I just read their ordinance today, 1536 01:02:27,199 --> 01:02:29,369 that if it's a majorly impacted site, TextDOT's going to 1537 01:02:29,369 --> 01:02:30,840 pay this much to the property owner. 1538 01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:32,840 And they lay that out very clearly. 1539 01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:35,409 The community I was in, I got calls regularly from TextDOT 1540 01:02:35,409 --> 01:02:37,659 and from property owners saying, what are you going to make 1541 01:02:37,659 --> 01:02:38,039 us do? 1542 01:02:38,039 --> 01:02:41,719 And the answer is, what our code says is what they do. 1543 01:02:43,079 --> 01:02:45,110 Lewisville says you're fully going to comply and here's a 1544 01:02:45,110 --> 01:02:46,760 timeline for doing that. 1545 01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:49,230 And if you're impacted and you need a variance, here's how 1546 01:02:49,230 --> 01:02:51,260 that process, if your site limitations prevent full 1547 01:02:51,260 --> 01:02:53,400 compliance, here's how we're going to process that. 1548 01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:54,440 So they have an ordinance in place. 1549 01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:56,039 Temple went a step further. 1550 01:02:56,039 --> 01:02:58,630 They're impacted, nearly the entire city is impacted, the 1551 01:02:58,630 --> 01:03:00,840 entire corridor through the city is impacted. 1552 01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:03,159 But they took it to another dimension. 1553 01:03:03,159 --> 01:03:05,599 They said, we're going to take this opportunity to take 1554 01:03:05,599 --> 01:03:08,320 what has been essentially an industrial corridor and we're 1555 01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:10,179 going to do some place making here and we're going to 1556 01:03:10,179 --> 01:03:11,599 change the way we look. 1557 01:03:11,599 --> 01:03:14,170 And they put a pretty onerous overlay in place that has 1558 01:03:14,170 --> 01:03:16,820 standards that are stricter than they are in different 1559 01:03:16,820 --> 01:03:17,880 parts of the city. 1560 01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,179 Taking that opportunity to put their best foot forward, 1561 01:03:20,179 --> 01:03:22,400 saying here's what people are going to drive through. 1562 01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:24,880 People are going to decide, make decisions about what our 1563 01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:25,920 community is about. 1564 01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:28,420 We're going to put some pretty strict standards about artic 1565 01:03:28,420 --> 01:03:31,199 ulation, architectural, landscaping, and a method for 1566 01:03:31,199 --> 01:03:34,079 dealing with sites that aren't completely compliant. 1567 01:03:34,079 --> 01:03:37,079 So a couple cities have gotten ahead of that. 1568 01:03:37,079 --> 01:03:39,039 We can ask for full compliance. 1569 01:03:39,039 --> 01:03:43,980 We need to come up with a method for dealing with sites 1570 01:03:43,980 --> 01:03:47,130 that can't comply and perhaps explore the possibility of an 1571 01:03:47,130 --> 01:03:47,679 overlay. 1572 01:03:47,679 --> 01:03:52,239 So these are some things that we can take a look at and 1573 01:03:52,239 --> 01:03:55,159 to a certain degree improve the negotiations that occur 1574 01:03:55,159 --> 01:03:57,360 between property owners and textiles. 1575 01:03:57,360 --> 01:03:59,789 When we have a consistent standard that's clearly out in 1576 01:03:59,789 --> 01:04:01,639 the code, our code is silent about it. 1577 01:04:01,639 --> 01:04:03,449 In some cases, we have said you don't have to comply 1578 01:04:03,449 --> 01:04:05,159 because you're affected by the widening. 1579 01:04:05,159 --> 01:04:08,079 That has actually been some staff direction in the past. 1580 01:04:09,199 --> 01:04:12,480 We do have the authority to ask for full compliance. 1581 01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:14,719 We probably should look for better compliance. 1582 01:04:14,719 --> 01:04:15,840 >> Commissioner Dadovich. 1583 01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:17,320 >> I'm sorry. >> Yes sir. 1584 01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:20,610 >> Don't we have a subcommittee set up to work on this 1585 01:04:20,610 --> 01:04:21,360 issue? 1586 01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:25,179 The issue of ordinance, not ordinance, zoning where it has 1587 01:04:25,179 --> 01:04:27,840 been impacted by the 35 widening? 1588 01:04:29,559 --> 01:04:31,389 There were three of us that were supposed to be on a sub 1589 01:04:31,389 --> 01:04:32,440 committee. 1590 01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:36,639 >> I think that's just in some of the rezoning in the city. 1591 01:04:36,639 --> 01:04:37,199 >> City initiated. 1592 01:04:37,199 --> 01:04:38,199 >> City initiated. 1593 01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:40,679 >> Yes, city initiated. 1594 01:04:40,679 --> 01:04:41,360 >> Zoning. 1595 01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,760 >> Zoning with regard to the 35 project. 1596 01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:45,840 >> Right. >> Yes. 1597 01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:46,519 >> Correct. 1598 01:04:46,519 --> 01:04:49,360 Absolutely, there is the committee that's leaving next week 1599 01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:50,000 , in fact. 1600 01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,599 And that will give you an opportunity, it's an avenue to 1601 01:04:53,599 --> 01:04:56,760 discern what land parcels need to be brought into 1602 01:04:56,760 --> 01:05:00,480 compliance with the comp plan as it relates to zoning. 1603 01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:03,639 What Beverly is discussing with you is creating a corridor 1604 01:05:03,639 --> 01:05:06,760 or an overlay district with specific design criteria and 1605 01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:07,639 mechanisms. 1606 01:05:07,639 --> 01:05:13,329 The question is, does our subcommittee work in conjunction 1607 01:05:13,329 --> 01:05:15,960 with this or help in any way? 1608 01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:18,639 >> What you would be looking at is a zoning perspective. 1609 01:05:18,639 --> 01:05:21,340 Do you want, does the city want to initiate zoning on a 1610 01:05:21,340 --> 01:05:22,599 specific, correct? 1611 01:05:22,599 --> 01:05:23,599 >> Okay. 1612 01:05:23,599 --> 01:05:27,019 >> And I hope for an overlay, but I think at the minimum we 1613 01:05:27,019 --> 01:05:28,800 need to address how we deal with that. 1614 01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:31,210 Because right now we don't have a consistent standard and 1615 01:05:31,210 --> 01:05:33,760 so it definitely impacts negotiations, what we ask for. 1616 01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:37,150 Because they, TextDOT will reimburse them based on what 1617 01:05:37,150 --> 01:05:38,800 city requirements are. 1618 01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,289 So getting consistent standard and addressing in our code 1619 01:05:41,289 --> 01:05:42,360 is pretty important. 1620 01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:44,320 >> Can I ask you a question? 1621 01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:45,400 >> Yes sir. 1622 01:05:45,400 --> 01:05:48,460 >> Has the time kind of already passed on that since a lot 1623 01:05:48,460 --> 01:05:51,840 of the right of way has already been acquired for 35? 1624 01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:54,699 >> I think there is still, I understand that the 1625 01:05:54,699 --> 01:05:57,650 acquisition is getting close to complete, but there are 1626 01:05:57,650 --> 01:05:59,639 still some acquisition occurring. 1627 01:05:59,639 --> 01:06:02,719 But as redevelopment occurs, I think we can still use this 1628 01:06:02,719 --> 01:06:03,440 overlay. 1629 01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:08,320 It is such an important corridor for the city. 1630 01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:09,840 It is the most important corridor. 1631 01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:12,309 There is visitors and commuters and travelers passing 1632 01:06:12,309 --> 01:06:13,719 through our city every day. 1633 01:06:13,719 --> 01:06:16,019 So I think that it needs to, if it is not the most visible 1634 01:06:16,019 --> 01:06:17,679 corridor, it certainly is up there. 1635 01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:20,920 >> And 377 is probably the next one. 1636 01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:21,440 >> Absolutely. 1637 01:06:24,039 --> 01:06:25,519 Plan development. 1638 01:06:25,519 --> 01:06:26,599 We had it. 1639 01:06:26,599 --> 01:06:28,840 I don't know that we effectively used it. 1640 01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:29,440 We got rid of it. 1641 01:06:31,599 --> 01:06:33,639 >> The staff is hoping to bring it back. 1642 01:06:33,639 --> 01:06:36,559 And let me just talk for a second about how it can be used. 1643 01:06:36,559 --> 01:06:38,170 I've worked in communities where it's been used poorly and 1644 01:06:38,170 --> 01:06:39,360 I've seen where it's been used well. 1645 01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:41,320 And I think it's all in the code, how you write it. 1646 01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:43,039 And you use it to elevate standards. 1647 01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:47,750 It is, we have a master plan community which allows for 1648 01:06:47,750 --> 01:06:50,690 large scale developments to basically incorporate some 1649 01:06:50,690 --> 01:06:52,320 flexibility, drop. 1650 01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:54,159 Everything can be on the table with the plan development. 1651 01:06:54,159 --> 01:06:56,480 You decide that in your ordinance. 1652 01:06:56,480 --> 01:07:00,119 Dimensions, uses, all types of things can urban design. 1653 01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:03,829 All kinds of things can be addressed and adding a degree of 1654 01:07:03,829 --> 01:07:04,679 flexibility. 1655 01:07:04,679 --> 01:07:06,400 Our surrounding communities have this. 1656 01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:08,269 They are using this and I'll talk in a minute about how 1657 01:07:08,269 --> 01:07:09,079 they're using it. 1658 01:07:11,079 --> 01:07:14,659 Right now in our code, we allow for sites that are greater 1659 01:07:14,659 --> 01:07:16,880 than two acres to drop dimensional, 1660 01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:19,480 not all of them, but some of the dimensional requirements. 1661 01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:21,900 But what we didn't get was the corresponding increases in 1662 01:07:21,900 --> 01:07:23,599 open space and better urban design. 1663 01:07:23,599 --> 01:07:26,480 We let them drop dimensions, but we didn't get the better 1664 01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:29,559 urban design, the place making aspect that can come with it 1665 01:07:29,559 --> 01:07:29,679 . 1666 01:07:29,679 --> 01:07:33,460 The natural resource protection, the respect for the top 1667 01:07:33,460 --> 01:07:35,489 ography of the land, we didn't get any of those ones, we 1668 01:07:35,489 --> 01:07:36,760 just dropped the dimensions. 1669 01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:38,159 Developers are worried about yield. 1670 01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:42,280 Plan developments can help us to achieve the same yield and 1671 01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:44,639 work with them to respect the topography and the natural 1672 01:07:44,639 --> 01:07:46,079 resources that are located on the property. 1673 01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:49,769 The other thing that has come up many times is that 1674 01:07:49,769 --> 01:07:54,090 straight zoning does not allow us to fully explore better 1675 01:07:54,090 --> 01:07:55,440 urban design. 1676 01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:57,760 I can think of a couple of occasions and one that's going 1677 01:07:57,760 --> 01:07:59,079 to be before you very soon. 1678 01:07:59,079 --> 01:08:02,559 The developer is basically being pushed to a higher zoning 1679 01:08:02,559 --> 01:08:03,400 category. 1680 01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:05,789 He only wants one aspect of it, he doesn't want the full 1681 01:08:05,789 --> 01:08:08,440 aspect of it, he just wants to do one more story. 1682 01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:11,420 But he's going to be pushed to the full degree to a higher 1683 01:08:11,420 --> 01:08:12,679 intensity zoning. 1684 01:08:12,679 --> 01:08:15,730 We do not have a mechanism, nor should we, to condition 1685 01:08:15,730 --> 01:08:16,399 zoning. 1686 01:08:16,399 --> 01:08:18,170 Plan development allows us to look at the site 1687 01:08:18,170 --> 01:08:20,989 comprehensively and say, all right, let's see what do you 1688 01:08:20,989 --> 01:08:22,399 want and what can we get? 1689 01:08:22,399 --> 01:08:24,640 We want a better relationship with the street. 1690 01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:26,760 We want to see a little bit more amenities on the site. 1691 01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:28,729 Let's work through this and get a better urban design with 1692 01:08:28,729 --> 01:08:29,079 this. 1693 01:08:29,079 --> 01:08:32,279 So offsite compatibility can be addressed and the 1694 01:08:32,279 --> 01:08:35,079 limitations that are inherent with straight zoning can also 1695 01:08:35,079 --> 01:08:35,920 be addressed. 1696 01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:38,840 We talk about mixed use, we talk about it all the time. 1697 01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:42,279 It's in our comp plan, we embrace the idea of mixed use. 1698 01:08:42,279 --> 01:08:45,869 Plan development allows us to deal with the offsite 1699 01:08:45,869 --> 01:08:49,960 compatibility issues and to tackle things from a form base. 1700 01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:52,539 Rather than always looking at use, then operations, and 1701 01:08:52,539 --> 01:08:55,020 then form at the bottom, we flip it on its ear and we take 1702 01:08:55,020 --> 01:08:56,560 a look at form first and say, 1703 01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:58,199 how can we make this work? 1704 01:08:58,199 --> 01:09:01,960 How can we start to mix these uses horizontally and make 1705 01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:06,960 our community drop some of those trips, 1706 01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,050 vehicle trips and maybe even bike trips and let people get 1707 01:09:09,050 --> 01:09:11,739 to the places they want a little quicker, a little easier 1708 01:09:11,739 --> 01:09:14,359 and mitigate for the offsite and compatibility. 1709 01:09:14,359 --> 01:09:16,159 Plan development can help us with that. 1710 01:09:16,159 --> 01:09:17,359 And so we're hoping to bring it back. 1711 01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:21,000 So just for those of you who aren't familiar with it, 1712 01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:24,479 it allows us to drop some of the dimensional or general 1713 01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:28,229 zoning requirements for the site, including development 1714 01:09:28,229 --> 01:09:30,039 elements and in some cases uses. 1715 01:09:30,039 --> 01:09:32,239 That depends on how we write it. 1716 01:09:32,239 --> 01:09:34,760 It goes through the entire process of a rezoning. 1717 01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:36,840 So when you do a plan development, you do the notification. 1718 01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:38,600 It is essentially rezoning. 1719 01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:40,439 It has been supported by the courts. 1720 01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:42,159 It is a frequently used tool. 1721 01:09:42,159 --> 01:09:45,039 On the upper right hand corner, you can see the Lake Shore 1722 01:09:45,039 --> 01:09:47,859 PUD in Austin, Texas has some transit orient development, a 1723 01:09:47,859 --> 01:09:50,479 good mix of residential, non-residential. 1724 01:09:50,479 --> 01:09:51,600 It's a 20 acre project. 1725 01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:53,640 It could not be done here in Dutton. 1726 01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:58,960 It doesn't meet the 150 acre of contiguous property and 1727 01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:01,079 single ownership threshold. 1728 01:10:01,079 --> 01:10:01,880 It could not be done. 1729 01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:02,960 So we have two standards. 1730 01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:07,819 We have a 300 acre requirement and we have a 150 acre 1731 01:10:07,819 --> 01:10:10,239 requirement, but it has to be under single ownership. 1732 01:10:10,239 --> 01:10:11,720 So that could not be done. 1733 01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:14,159 That Lakeview PUD could not be done. 1734 01:10:14,159 --> 01:10:16,960 The canals at Grand Park in Frisco, Texas. 1735 01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,720 It potentially could be done if it was all under one single 1736 01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:22,479 ownership. 1737 01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:25,909 Some of the plan developments I've processed have not been 1738 01:10:25,909 --> 01:10:27,600 under a single ownership. 1739 01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:29,710 They have been under multiple ownerships as they bring that 1740 01:10:29,710 --> 01:10:32,680 together and we've had to have multiple property owners 1741 01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:34,800 enter into the plan development as they work through it. 1742 01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:38,979 So some of these things, I think, could ultimately be great 1743 01:10:38,979 --> 01:10:39,680 tools. 1744 01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:42,609 And then again, the big one, I think, we dropped dimensions 1745 01:10:42,609 --> 01:10:45,239 , but we didn't get corresponding increases in open space. 1746 01:10:45,239 --> 01:10:47,789 Conservation development or cluster development, you may 1747 01:10:47,789 --> 01:10:48,640 have heard of it. 1748 01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:51,640 It allows the same yield, but it allows the developer 1749 01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:54,680 essentially to concentrate and drop dimensions. 1750 01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:58,079 I think it creates an overall better community. 1751 01:10:58,079 --> 01:11:01,420 I think it ultimately creates a more livable space for the 1752 01:11:01,420 --> 01:11:03,840 residents and generates the same yield, 1753 01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:07,079 which is essentially what I think developers want to see. 1754 01:11:07,079 --> 01:11:08,840 It works with the land. 1755 01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:12,109 It's a tool that isn't often used and we don't have a tool 1756 01:11:12,109 --> 01:11:14,800 for encouraging it anywhere in our code. 1757 01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:21,319 Alternative development plan, I mentioned that earlier. 1758 01:11:21,319 --> 01:11:22,960 What is the intent of the ADP? 1759 01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:24,560 It's really to elevate standards. 1760 01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:27,810 It's really to achieve better urban design and provide some 1761 01:11:27,810 --> 01:11:30,760 flexibility, some relief to the property owner. 1762 01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:32,840 Again, we have some frequent flyers. 1763 01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,520 The front parking orientation is a frequent flyer. 1764 01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:37,439 The building oriented towards the street. 1765 01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:38,520 We have some that come through. 1766 01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:41,380 I'd say I looked back all the way to, I think, the last 1767 01:11:41,380 --> 01:11:46,560 three years and I'd say probably 30 to, I think, 40%. 1768 01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:50,039 We had some withdrawals of the request had to do with front 1769 01:11:50,039 --> 01:11:51,479 parking orientation, 1770 01:11:53,039 --> 01:11:55,609 parking, I mean, building oriented towards the street and 1771 01:11:55,609 --> 01:11:57,199 then front parking. 1772 01:11:57,199 --> 01:12:02,130 These were some typical concerns that people brought and we 1773 01:12:02,130 --> 01:12:03,359 recommend the same remedies. 1774 01:12:03,359 --> 01:12:07,539 And you typically have been in agreement and have approved 1775 01:12:07,539 --> 01:12:08,239 the same remedies, 1776 01:12:08,239 --> 01:12:11,979 which is better material design of the building, maybe 1777 01:12:11,979 --> 01:12:13,880 three sided architecture, better landscaping. 1778 01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:17,239 All these things have been routinely approved. 1779 01:12:17,239 --> 01:12:22,159 If we can, if these sorts of requests can be addressed by 1780 01:12:22,159 --> 01:12:23,359 better site design, 1781 01:12:23,359 --> 01:12:26,250 can we codify that and make those subject to administrative 1782 01:12:26,250 --> 01:12:27,000 approval? 1783 01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:29,359 This is good, but this is good too. 1784 01:12:29,359 --> 01:12:31,739 And maybe this third option is also good, find one that 1785 01:12:31,739 --> 01:12:33,119 works for you, developer. 1786 01:12:37,119 --> 01:12:41,050 And what you see is the advanced auto parts and this is an 1787 01:12:41,050 --> 01:12:43,199 example of, I think they asked for both things. 1788 01:12:43,199 --> 01:12:46,970 The front building orientation and also the parking located 1789 01:12:46,970 --> 01:12:49,560 in the front of the building. 1790 01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:53,409 And you can see that there was a pretty nice landscape plan 1791 01:12:53,409 --> 01:12:54,800 was put in place and 1792 01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:57,380 pretty nice looking auto parts store, I think, if you were 1793 01:12:57,380 --> 01:12:59,880 to compare it to others and other communities. 1794 01:12:59,880 --> 01:13:03,239 I think it looks pretty sharp and we treat that through an 1795 01:13:03,239 --> 01:13:03,560 ADP. 1796 01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:08,840 Non-residential material requirements. 1797 01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:13,829 Currently the DC exempts industrial uses from the material 1798 01:13:13,829 --> 01:13:17,800 requirements allowing metal to be allowed. 1799 01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:20,100 There's some exceptions to that depending if it's located 1800 01:13:20,100 --> 01:13:22,800 within 200 feet, I think, of a collector and a minor arter 1801 01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:23,319 ial. 1802 01:13:23,319 --> 01:13:28,279 But essentially, it exempts them from the material 1803 01:13:28,279 --> 01:13:29,840 requirements required in the code. 1804 01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:35,680 So we do get industrial uses to ECI, ICG, ICI, all 1805 01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:38,840 industrial or allow for industrial uses. 1806 01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:41,029 Which are pretty, located pretty close to some of the city 1807 01:13:41,029 --> 01:13:42,279 's most important gateways. 1808 01:13:42,279 --> 01:13:44,319 Again, it's about place making. 1809 01:13:44,319 --> 01:13:48,199 Do we want, is this how we want to present our community? 1810 01:13:48,199 --> 01:13:51,270 And the idea that we need to basically develop more context 1811 01:13:51,270 --> 01:13:53,439 sensitive material requirements for 1812 01:13:53,439 --> 01:13:56,920 our community and maybe decide where this is appropriate 1813 01:13:56,920 --> 01:13:58,520 and take a look at that. 1814 01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:00,819 Non-residential building requirements don't address new 1815 01:14:00,819 --> 01:14:01,880 engineered materials. 1816 01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:05,279 I was asked to make a determination about cementitious s 1817 01:14:05,279 --> 01:14:05,920 iding. 1818 01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:07,359 I looked through the list. 1819 01:14:07,359 --> 01:14:10,239 I said, none of these are cementitious siding. 1820 01:14:10,239 --> 01:14:13,119 I don't know how we can say that, that it's allowed. 1821 01:14:13,119 --> 01:14:14,119 There's nothing in the list. 1822 01:14:14,119 --> 01:14:15,279 The list is very clear. 1823 01:14:16,439 --> 01:14:18,539 And then the same day I heard that the preservation board 1824 01:14:18,539 --> 01:14:20,840 was considering it, I said, good grief. 1825 01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,199 Well, if they're looking at it, then how can we say that? 1826 01:14:23,199 --> 01:14:26,979 And we kind of, I think, made a different determination 1827 01:14:26,979 --> 01:14:29,560 because it was too hard to stand on that ground. 1828 01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:31,079 We don't look at engineered materials. 1829 01:14:31,079 --> 01:14:35,199 There are some, I think, you can address percentages, 1830 01:14:35,199 --> 01:14:36,000 whether they should be allowed. 1831 01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:41,039 Most codes have talked about EFAs, have talked about cement 1832 01:14:41,039 --> 01:14:42,840 itious siding. 1833 01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:46,149 Other split block tilt wall, these sorts of things are not 1834 01:14:46,149 --> 01:14:47,800 talked about in our code. 1835 01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:49,800 These are common building materials. 1836 01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:52,270 We need to take a look at how we can maybe think of where 1837 01:14:52,270 --> 01:14:53,600 those are appropriate. 1838 01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:59,949 And the most important thing, I think, is that our building 1839 01:14:59,949 --> 01:15:03,079 materials standards are really not context sensitive. 1840 01:15:03,079 --> 01:15:06,029 What is essentially appropriate for a neighborhood 1841 01:15:06,029 --> 01:15:07,439 commercial district or 1842 01:15:07,439 --> 01:15:10,689 a neighborhood service district is not what you want to 1843 01:15:10,689 --> 01:15:13,800 look for along a major arterial or on an interstate. 1844 01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:16,319 They look different, they should look different. 1845 01:15:16,319 --> 01:15:19,590 So looking at that in a context sensitive way, neighborhood 1846 01:15:19,590 --> 01:15:22,550 commercial should fit in with the neighborhood in scale, in 1847 01:15:22,550 --> 01:15:24,880 material, in form, in set back. 1848 01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:27,899 It's different, you can use different types of products on 1849 01:15:27,899 --> 01:15:29,720 an interstate, and you should. 1850 01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:32,670 Some folks might say, you know, siding is appropriate in 1851 01:15:32,670 --> 01:15:33,720 neighborhoods. 1852 01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:36,020 Some folks might say, that's not really appropriate for the 1853 01:15:36,020 --> 01:15:36,600 interstate. 1854 01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:39,109 There's probably maybe tilt wall, maybe different types of 1855 01:15:39,109 --> 01:15:40,600 products are more appropriate. 1856 01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:44,880 So taking a look at context sensitive development standards 1857 01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:45,239 for 1858 01:15:45,239 --> 01:15:48,210 our non-residential districts is pretty important, and you 1859 01:15:48,210 --> 01:15:50,359 can see the difference in these images. 1860 01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:57,760 This was a request from Commissioner Briegel, and 1861 01:15:57,760 --> 01:16:02,439 apparently something staff supports the idea of integrating 1862 01:16:02,439 --> 01:16:05,479 bike parking into our development standards. 1863 01:16:05,479 --> 01:16:08,390 This of course will encourage and support alternative modes 1864 01:16:08,390 --> 01:16:10,640 of transportation, bicycling, and pedestrian. 1865 01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:13,050 But more importantly, I think it'll help to accommodate the 1866 01:16:13,050 --> 01:16:16,079 growing population that already exists in here that is 1867 01:16:16,079 --> 01:16:19,479 utilizing cycling to get to their destination point. 1868 01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:21,869 So encourage a mode shift in our community, but also 1869 01:16:21,869 --> 01:16:23,760 accommodate the existing cyclists. 1870 01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:25,630 And I put an interesting bike rack there, because I thought 1871 01:16:25,630 --> 01:16:26,800 that kind of was sharp looking. 1872 01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:30,970 Use table, we need to take a look at our use table and 1873 01:16:30,970 --> 01:16:36,159 integrate new uses that are common development requests. 1874 01:16:36,159 --> 01:16:39,000 We get some, one of the big ones is auto storage. 1875 01:16:39,000 --> 01:16:41,840 I think Peter Belt may have multiple facilities here, but 1876 01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:43,479 we get this idea that they're, 1877 01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:46,470 this is just a place where we hold them before we customize 1878 01:16:46,470 --> 01:16:47,000 them. 1879 01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:49,640 We have a commercial parking lot, and we have auto sales. 1880 01:16:49,640 --> 01:16:51,720 We just don't really, where do we put it? 1881 01:16:51,720 --> 01:16:52,760 It's neither. 1882 01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:54,960 So we have to make some calls, and this is something that's 1883 01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:57,439 usually in the transportation section, a lot of use tables. 1884 01:16:58,319 --> 01:16:59,880 Office warehouse comes up a bit. 1885 01:16:59,880 --> 01:17:02,760 We have warehouse, which is a distribution, and we have 1886 01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:03,319 office. 1887 01:17:03,319 --> 01:17:05,689 But we see, and it's a pretty common thing in business 1888 01:17:05,689 --> 01:17:08,170 parks to have a warehouse that has an office, and we need 1889 01:17:08,170 --> 01:17:11,000 to figure out how we can put that, where we can put that. 1890 01:17:11,000 --> 01:17:14,520 Manufactured housing, is it a land lease community? 1891 01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:16,840 Is it a single manufactured home on a site? 1892 01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:17,640 What are the standards? 1893 01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:20,159 We don't reference HUD code. 1894 01:17:20,159 --> 01:17:23,399 Manufactured housing, which is a staple in most codes, 1895 01:17:23,399 --> 01:17:25,199 making a distinction between 1896 01:17:25,199 --> 01:17:27,869 what is approved by HUD and what is an acceptable 1897 01:17:27,869 --> 01:17:29,279 manufactured house. 1898 01:17:29,279 --> 01:17:31,930 We don't have current language when it comes to dealing 1899 01:17:31,930 --> 01:17:34,869 with manufactured housing, and we haven't looked at it that 1900 01:17:34,869 --> 01:17:35,439 way. 1901 01:17:35,439 --> 01:17:38,840 Assisted living, we still call it elderly housing. 1902 01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:40,979 This is an area that is going to continue to grow in 1903 01:17:40,979 --> 01:17:43,619 importance in this community as we have baby boomers matric 1904 01:17:43,619 --> 01:17:45,960 ulating into different types of facilities. 1905 01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:48,260 We need to get our ordinances lined up with state and 1906 01:17:48,260 --> 01:17:50,670 federal regulations as they relate to group homes, assisted 1907 01:17:50,670 --> 01:17:52,119 living, these sorts of things. 1908 01:17:52,119 --> 01:17:54,760 We have some good standards that the state has some 1909 01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:58,239 guidance that the state has given us, and sometimes in case 1910 01:17:58,239 --> 01:18:00,569 there's been some federal guidance we'd love to legal to 1911 01:18:00,569 --> 01:18:01,199 help us. 1912 01:18:01,199 --> 01:18:04,090 Get those a little bit more closely aligned with standard 1913 01:18:04,090 --> 01:18:07,479 language, typical language, and state and federal language. 1914 01:18:10,119 --> 01:18:11,729 I just want to throw this in, and I hope this isn't too 1915 01:18:11,729 --> 01:18:15,729 preachy or anything, but ultimately the code is designed to 1916 01:18:15,729 --> 01:18:16,760 do placemaking. 1917 01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:18,560 This is what our code is for. 1918 01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:19,199 What is that? 1919 01:18:19,199 --> 01:18:21,869 It's a unique collection of qualities and characteristics, 1920 01:18:21,869 --> 01:18:24,199 something that is distinctive in your community. 1921 01:18:24,199 --> 01:18:27,050 Something that when someone drives in, they know they're in 1922 01:18:27,050 --> 01:18:27,640 Denton. 1923 01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:30,710 Yes, I know Denton has a wonderful sort of urban grittiness 1924 01:18:30,710 --> 01:18:33,600 to it, and I wouldn't want that to change in any way. 1925 01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:36,760 But where is that urban grittiness, uniqueness appropriate? 1926 01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:38,159 Is it appropriate on our interstate? 1927 01:18:38,159 --> 01:18:40,439 Is it appropriate in our new subdivisions? 1928 01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:45,319 So really figuring out how we want to brand our community. 1929 01:18:45,319 --> 01:18:48,090 It's not about, you certainly want to respond to market 1930 01:18:48,090 --> 01:18:48,680 forces. 1931 01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:50,800 I think our code doesn't necessarily do that. 1932 01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:53,199 Always be aware of what the market's driving. 1933 01:18:53,199 --> 01:18:56,220 But then to a certain degree when you incorporate that 1934 01:18:56,220 --> 01:18:57,159 flexibility, 1935 01:18:57,159 --> 01:19:00,390 you use your standards to sort of brand those that are 1936 01:19:00,390 --> 01:19:03,159 coming to your community and say this is our standard. 1937 01:19:03,159 --> 01:19:05,720 This is what makes us unique and distinctive. 1938 01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:07,600 Put our best foot forward on our corridors. 1939 01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:10,539 People make decisions every day about where to put their 1940 01:19:10,539 --> 01:19:13,359 businesses, where to live, where to shop. 1941 01:19:13,359 --> 01:19:16,109 Based on the impressions they get when they drive through 1942 01:19:16,109 --> 01:19:18,659 our gateways, this is our most important place. 1943 01:19:18,659 --> 01:19:20,520 So place making needs to occur. 1944 01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:22,470 I put the word dividend because there was an article that 1945 01:19:22,470 --> 01:19:24,199 actually called it the place making dividend. 1946 01:19:24,199 --> 01:19:26,529 Because I think it yields economic development and I think 1947 01:19:26,529 --> 01:19:28,199 that they work in tandem together. 1948 01:19:28,199 --> 01:19:29,880 Quality development brings quality development. 1949 01:19:33,119 --> 01:19:35,720 And I think this is, we don't have a timeline for these. 1950 01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:38,560 I think we're going to start to work on them one for one. 1951 01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:41,399 I think the I-35 one is kind of pressing. 1952 01:19:41,399 --> 01:19:44,000 And I think I presented that one at least towards the front 1953 01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:44,239 . 1954 01:19:44,239 --> 01:19:47,390 So, but as we bring these forward, we'll have more thorough 1955 01:19:47,390 --> 01:19:49,399 discussions to address all of these. 1956 01:19:49,399 --> 01:19:53,680 And hopefully be able to get your guidance and 1957 01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:57,720 support as we move these staff initiated updates forward in 1958 01:19:57,720 --> 01:19:59,079 the code and 1959 01:19:59,079 --> 01:20:03,119 incorporate them as part of a larger code update process. 1960 01:20:03,119 --> 01:20:04,520 So I'd be glad to answer any questions you have. 1961 01:20:07,199 --> 01:20:08,000 >> Commissioner Denowitz. 1962 01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:11,439 >> I'd just like to say I really enjoyed this and liked the 1963 01:20:11,439 --> 01:20:12,399 direction. 1964 01:20:12,399 --> 01:20:16,520 And if we need to push this forward faster, I think it's 1965 01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:17,560 not soon enough. 1966 01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:20,739 Because everything you said is exactly what I'm hearing 1967 01:20:20,739 --> 01:20:22,159 from this community. 1968 01:20:22,159 --> 01:20:26,239 And it was refreshing to hear your presentation. 1969 01:20:26,239 --> 01:20:26,739 Thank you. 1970 01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:29,800 >> Commissioner Bruegel. 1971 01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:31,199 >> Thank you, Chair. 1972 01:20:31,199 --> 01:20:32,079 >> I absolutely agree. 1973 01:20:32,079 --> 01:20:34,239 That was a really great presentation. 1974 01:20:34,239 --> 01:20:36,479 My mind's going like a million miles a minute right now. 1975 01:20:36,479 --> 01:20:38,159 Just like I've got all these great ideas. 1976 01:20:38,159 --> 01:20:40,560 I'd like to think they're great ideas. 1977 01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:42,319 I've got a lot of ideas. 1978 01:20:42,319 --> 01:20:44,869 I'm wondering how the public might have an opportunity to 1979 01:20:44,869 --> 01:20:46,479 chime in with some of the ideas that they may have. 1980 01:20:50,760 --> 01:20:53,840 We're going to obviously see this come to us, but as staff 1981 01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:56,239 is coming up with suggestions as well, 1982 01:20:56,239 --> 01:21:00,340 is there a place where people, just whoever, could give you 1983 01:21:00,340 --> 01:21:01,720 some more ideas? 1984 01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:03,359 I have so many in my head. 1985 01:21:03,359 --> 01:21:04,279 Where do we go? 1986 01:21:04,279 --> 01:21:07,760 >> Well, I know code amendments all require public hearings 1987 01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:09,760 , so certainly there's that opportunity. 1988 01:21:09,760 --> 01:21:13,130 And they don't have the same notification because they 1989 01:21:13,130 --> 01:21:15,720 really are affecting the entire code. 1990 01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:17,850 But every time we bring a code amendment, as we did with 1991 01:21:17,850 --> 01:21:21,479 the DME process, we do go ahead and work with the normal 1992 01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:24,279 public hearing process. 1993 01:21:24,279 --> 01:21:27,079 In addition to that, with each code update that you bring, 1994 01:21:27,079 --> 01:21:29,909 it's always, and it's been my experience, to really work 1995 01:21:29,909 --> 01:21:31,640 with stakeholders on it. 1996 01:21:31,640 --> 01:21:34,550 If it is stakeholders likely to be impacted, certainly we 1997 01:21:34,550 --> 01:21:38,310 'll work with the development community here to vet some of 1998 01:21:38,310 --> 01:21:39,319 these ideas as we work through. 1999 01:21:39,319 --> 01:21:41,539 Some of them have even prompted us on some of these things, 2000 01:21:41,539 --> 01:21:43,350 when can you do this and when you do, can you bring it, as 2001 01:21:43,350 --> 01:21:44,680 we'd like to talk about it. 2002 01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:47,079 And plan development is one, and the ADP administrative 2003 01:21:47,079 --> 01:21:47,520 stuff. 2004 01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:49,600 So those things that incorporate more flexibility are 2005 01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:51,539 things that have been invited from our development 2006 01:21:51,539 --> 01:21:52,479 representatives. 2007 01:21:52,479 --> 01:21:54,979 But working with community stakeholders is, you know, an 2008 01:21:54,979 --> 01:21:55,880 effective party. 2009 01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:58,699 Other departments, very important also, and helping 2010 01:21:58,699 --> 01:22:01,119 identify who their stakeholders are as well. 2011 01:22:01,119 --> 01:22:04,000 Anticipate working very closely with legalists, we bring 2012 01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:06,659 these forward to make sure that we use the best language 2013 01:22:06,659 --> 01:22:07,920 and the most appropriate language. 2014 01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:11,609 And then, of course, look to you to guide us any other 2015 01:22:11,609 --> 01:22:15,520 additional stakeholders that we could incorporate into each 2016 01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:17,760 set of events might have a different group and we would 2017 01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:20,239 look to maybe some guidance as we move forward. 2018 01:22:20,239 --> 01:22:22,399 >> Would there be a, sorry. 2019 01:22:22,399 --> 01:22:23,119 >> Continue. 2020 01:22:23,119 --> 01:22:27,039 >> Would there be a possibility of, obviously, the red line 2021 01:22:27,039 --> 01:22:28,920 versions and what not will end up in our backup. 2022 01:22:28,920 --> 01:22:31,220 But that really only gives us and the public, you know, a 2023 01:22:31,220 --> 01:22:33,520 couple of days to kind of look it over before we either 2024 01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:34,399 workshop it, 2025 01:22:34,399 --> 01:22:36,489 in which they don't have an opportunity to really 2026 01:22:36,489 --> 01:22:39,100 participate, or the public hearing process, which is kind 2027 01:22:39,100 --> 01:22:40,399 of farther down the line. 2028 01:22:40,399 --> 01:22:44,140 So as staff is working on drafts, could that be maybe 2029 01:22:44,140 --> 01:22:47,000 posted to the city website somewhere with a link of just, 2030 01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:49,439 you know, let us know your thoughts or chime in here. 2031 01:22:49,439 --> 01:22:50,399 What are we missing? 2032 01:22:50,399 --> 01:22:51,159 What do you like? 2033 01:22:51,159 --> 01:22:52,479 What don't you like? 2034 01:22:52,479 --> 01:22:54,779 Just so that we can really get a really good conversation 2035 01:22:54,779 --> 01:22:56,560 from as many stakeholders as possible. 2036 01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:57,279 Is that? 2037 01:22:57,279 --> 01:22:58,239 >> I'll let Manal address that. 2038 01:22:58,239 --> 01:22:58,800 I'm not certain. 2039 01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:00,239 >> Yeah, Manal wants to jump in. 2040 01:23:00,239 --> 01:23:03,909 >> Thank you, Mr. Bruegel, and obviously the rest of the 2041 01:23:03,909 --> 01:23:04,960 commission. 2042 01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:08,329 One of the takeaways from Beverly's presentation tonight is 2043 01:23:08,329 --> 01:23:11,829 that the development community is actually willing to work 2044 01:23:11,829 --> 01:23:14,039 with the ordinances. 2045 01:23:14,039 --> 01:23:16,340 The issue is that the ordinance is sometimes a little conv 2046 01:23:16,340 --> 01:23:18,659 oluted and it's difficult to find the right information in 2047 01:23:18,659 --> 01:23:19,600 the right place. 2048 01:23:21,439 --> 01:23:24,420 So when it comes to what are we doing with the DDC, what 2049 01:23:24,420 --> 01:23:26,760 are these code amendments that we're bringing forward, or 2050 01:23:26,760 --> 01:23:28,840 these piecemeal code amendments that we're bringing forward 2051 01:23:28,840 --> 01:23:29,000 ? 2052 01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:33,960 We're merely to address to a great degree information that 2053 01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:36,449 is perhaps littered throughout the ordinance and we're 2054 01:23:36,449 --> 01:23:37,640 making it more concise. 2055 01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:40,119 So you're not taking away anything from that. 2056 01:23:40,119 --> 01:23:42,590 We are enhancing it where we've heard from our development 2057 01:23:42,590 --> 01:23:45,170 community through our development review committee meetings 2058 01:23:45,170 --> 01:23:45,279 , 2059 01:23:45,279 --> 01:23:47,880 through conversations, through reconnaissance meetings with 2060 01:23:47,880 --> 01:23:49,199 our development community. 2061 01:23:50,279 --> 01:23:52,750 The effort and the intent right now that you have seen 2062 01:23:52,750 --> 01:23:56,840 before you today is actually on a very expeditious path. 2063 01:23:56,840 --> 01:24:00,159 We want to get these amendments done very, very quickly. 2064 01:24:00,159 --> 01:24:01,720 We have all seen them. 2065 01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:04,149 Our team that has been working here for many, many years 2066 01:24:04,149 --> 01:24:04,520 too. 2067 01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:07,079 We just haven't had that opportunity. 2068 01:24:07,079 --> 01:24:10,060 We also understand that the workload is extensive, yet we 2069 01:24:10,060 --> 01:24:13,239 understand the importance of moving forward with these. 2070 01:24:13,239 --> 01:24:16,189 One of the things that Beverly mentioned, prefacing her 2071 01:24:16,189 --> 01:24:17,119 presentation, 2072 01:24:17,119 --> 01:24:22,159 was we're going to have an overhaul review or an overview 2073 01:24:22,159 --> 01:24:25,239 review of the Denton Development Code. 2074 01:24:25,239 --> 01:24:28,199 That will more than likely occur through consultancy. 2075 01:24:28,199 --> 01:24:30,800 That being said, that opportunity will be available. 2076 01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:34,300 So when we talk about is the land use missing or is this 2077 01:24:34,300 --> 01:24:35,279 happening? 2078 01:24:35,279 --> 01:24:37,720 In this instance, what Beverly is bringing forward to you, 2079 01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:40,199 let's use the ADP for example, 2080 01:24:40,199 --> 01:24:45,640 is the intent of the ADP is very clear in the DDC. 2081 01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:48,539 Yet you have to read several pages to determine what that 2082 01:24:48,539 --> 01:24:49,279 intent is. 2083 01:24:49,279 --> 01:24:51,840 So why don't we make it more concise, understand, in fact, 2084 01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:53,479 Commissioner Taylor at one point had said, 2085 01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:58,439 why is the intent of an ADP is to have a higher criteria 2086 01:24:58,439 --> 01:24:59,279 associated with, 2087 01:24:59,279 --> 01:25:01,489 if you're compromising something, how are you going to 2088 01:25:01,489 --> 01:25:03,199 offset that and what is that criteria? 2089 01:25:03,199 --> 01:25:05,239 And we understand that clearly too. 2090 01:25:05,239 --> 01:25:07,739 But there's some aspects of it that don't need to come 2091 01:25:07,739 --> 01:25:08,680 before the PNZ. 2092 01:25:08,680 --> 01:25:11,600 So let's streamline what actually comes before the PNZ. 2093 01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:14,399 Let's streamline how someone comes in through the process 2094 01:25:14,399 --> 01:25:17,170 and what they have to do ultimately to secure their 2095 01:25:17,170 --> 01:25:18,880 certificate of occupancy. 2096 01:25:18,880 --> 01:25:21,909 So that opportunity that you want will be available when we 2097 01:25:21,909 --> 01:25:25,279 do the comprehensive review of the Denton Development Code. 2098 01:25:25,279 --> 01:25:30,279 In this instance, I would really look to the Planning and 2099 01:25:30,279 --> 01:25:32,649 Zoning Commission to work collaboratively with us to at 2100 01:25:32,649 --> 01:25:34,840 least get these moving forward so we can start 2101 01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:40,039 introducing ordinances that are concise and bringing things 2102 01:25:40,039 --> 01:25:42,159 together from the DDC. 2103 01:25:42,159 --> 01:25:48,079 And again, the DDC was adopted in 2002. 2104 01:25:48,079 --> 01:25:49,680 I'm sorry, was I wrong? 2105 01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:50,920 >> No. >> 2002. 2106 01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:53,560 And this is a good opportunity to now go ahead and move 2107 01:25:53,560 --> 01:25:54,199 forward. 2108 01:25:54,199 --> 01:25:57,989 But the standalone amendments that we want to bring forward 2109 01:25:57,989 --> 01:25:58,199 , 2110 01:25:58,199 --> 01:26:00,210 we would recommend that you help us move those through to 2111 01:26:00,210 --> 01:26:01,479 City Council expeditiously. 2112 01:26:01,479 --> 01:26:04,270 And please, if they have any questions, please feel free to 2113 01:26:04,270 --> 01:26:05,760 address those with them too. 2114 01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:06,760 >> And if I could just one more point. 2115 01:26:06,760 --> 01:26:07,720 >> Sure, continue. 2116 01:26:07,720 --> 01:26:08,640 Commissioner Bruegel. 2117 01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:12,720 >> And I also, I do agree with Commissioner Jodowich that I 2118 01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:16,710 think it's the I-35 thing that really needs to get 2119 01:26:16,710 --> 01:26:17,319 addressed. 2120 01:26:17,319 --> 01:26:20,289 I recall a couple years ago we had a lunch with City 2121 01:26:20,289 --> 01:26:22,640 Council, it was like two years ago. 2122 01:26:22,640 --> 01:26:24,920 And we're like, let's move forward on this I-35 thing. 2123 01:26:24,920 --> 01:26:25,760 And then it was like crickets. 2124 01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:28,439 So I really, this really needs to happen. 2125 01:26:28,439 --> 01:26:30,359 So I second that. 2126 01:26:30,359 --> 01:26:31,159 >> We brought that up. 2127 01:26:36,319 --> 01:26:37,279 >> And we're very aware of the matrix that we've 2128 01:26:37,279 --> 01:26:39,560 established. 2129 01:26:39,560 --> 01:26:45,640 In fact, I foresee that matrix being, I don't think it will 2130 01:26:45,640 --> 01:26:47,279 continue in the force that it's continuing now. 2131 01:26:47,279 --> 01:26:50,960 Because we're going to be bringing forward a lot more to 2132 01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:54,329 you and the purview of the PNZ will in reality be the pur 2133 01:26:54,329 --> 01:26:55,239 view of the PNZ. 2134 01:26:55,239 --> 01:26:58,520 Happy to see it move forward. 2135 01:26:58,520 --> 01:26:59,359 >> I want to make a comment. 2136 01:26:59,359 --> 01:27:02,159 I think it's right on spot to have the stakeholders, 2137 01:27:02,159 --> 01:27:02,880 development community. 2138 01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:06,279 I know sometimes that's a pushback sometimes. 2139 01:27:06,279 --> 01:27:08,300 I think those are the people that are in this all day, 2140 01:27:08,300 --> 01:27:09,159 every single day. 2141 01:27:09,159 --> 01:27:10,760 They do it in lots of different areas. 2142 01:27:10,760 --> 01:27:13,079 I think they bring lots of times very good ideas. 2143 01:27:13,079 --> 01:27:16,079 I think it's, to your point, critical to do it in a very 2144 01:27:16,079 --> 01:27:19,000 timely manner because as Denton continues to grow, 2145 01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:21,689 people that are familiar with working with Denton may be 2146 01:27:21,689 --> 01:27:24,590 more familiar with some of the intricacies and areas that 2147 01:27:24,590 --> 01:27:26,279 we have flexibility in our code. 2148 01:27:26,279 --> 01:27:29,100 But a lot of the people that are not typically working in 2149 01:27:29,100 --> 01:27:31,319 Denton, that may be in Dallas or 2150 01:27:31,319 --> 01:27:34,640 other places that are coming in here, totally unfamiliar 2151 01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:36,960 with it and then we're having issues. 2152 01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:37,960 And so I agree. 2153 01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:40,710 I think it's a very timely thing that needs to move forward 2154 01:27:40,710 --> 01:27:42,079 as quickly as possible. 2155 01:27:42,079 --> 01:27:45,689 And I'm glad to hear that it brings some of the developers 2156 01:27:45,689 --> 01:27:47,399 into that process to help them. 2157 01:27:47,399 --> 01:27:49,239 Because ultimately, that's who this is for. 2158 01:27:49,239 --> 01:27:53,890 To make their jobs go as expeditiously as possible, have 2159 01:27:53,890 --> 01:27:56,359 successful projects, and hopefully do some more. 2160 01:27:56,359 --> 01:27:58,640 So I think it's a great idea and I look forward to seeing 2161 01:27:58,640 --> 01:27:59,159 it soon. 2162 01:28:00,279 --> 01:28:01,479 Commissioner Dedowitz. 2163 01:28:01,479 --> 01:28:04,659 >> Just lastly, I think the matrix that you brought up 2164 01:28:04,659 --> 01:28:08,239 needs to be looked at constantly and reprioritized. 2165 01:28:08,239 --> 01:28:11,569 And here is a situation where we think this needs to be 2166 01:28:11,569 --> 01:28:13,000 brought up higher. 2167 01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:15,000 Yeah, so conclude this. 2168 01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:15,520 Thank you. 2169 01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:17,159 >> Anybody else? 2170 01:28:17,159 --> 01:28:23,279 >> With that, we've run a little bit long. 2171 01:28:23,279 --> 01:28:25,760 We wanted to get through this presentation. 2172 01:28:25,760 --> 01:28:29,640 I'm going to close our work session at 641. 2173 01:28:29,640 --> 01:28:33,520 And let's try to, we have a very short schedule tonight. 2174 01:28:39,079 --> 01:28:43,880 Good evening and welcome to the City of Denton Planning and 2175 01:28:43,880 --> 01:28:48,760 Zoning Commission meeting for February the 24th, 2016. 2176 01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:54,720 It is 646 and this meeting has been duly posted and we have 2177 01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:56,760 a quorum present. 2178 01:28:56,760 --> 01:28:59,159 I call our meeting to order. 2179 01:28:59,159 --> 01:29:02,310 And our first order of business is to give the pledge to 2180 01:29:02,310 --> 01:29:03,960 the US and the Texas flag. 2181 01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:04,560 Please stand. 2182 01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:10,840 >> We pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of 2183 01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:11,880 America. 2184 01:29:11,880 --> 01:29:15,529 The territory and republic for which it stands, one nation 2185 01:29:15,529 --> 01:29:17,000 under God, 2186 01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:20,000 indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. 2187 01:29:20,000 --> 01:29:22,279 [BLANK_AUDIO] 2188 01:29:22,279 --> 01:29:24,319 >> I pledge allegiance to the Texas flag. 2189 01:29:24,319 --> 01:29:29,180 >> I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, under God 2190 01:29:29,180 --> 01:29:30,760 , one indivisible. 2191 01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:38,439 [BLANK_AUDIO] 2192 01:29:38,439 --> 01:29:43,640 >> Our next item on our agenda is approval of our minutes. 2193 01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:47,119 And I'm going to make a note, point of order, that this is 2194 01:29:47,119 --> 01:29:48,319 our January 27th, 2195 01:29:48,319 --> 01:29:51,600 2016 minutes, it's not in our agenda that way. 2196 01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:53,720 Chair will entertain a motion. 2197 01:29:53,720 --> 01:29:58,319 [BLANK_AUDIO] 2198 01:29:58,319 --> 01:29:59,960 Commissioner Hussman. 2199 01:29:59,960 --> 01:30:01,239 >> Move we approve. 2200 01:30:01,239 --> 01:30:03,640 >> Okay, Commissioner Dudowitz. 2201 01:30:03,640 --> 01:30:04,600 >> I second. 2202 01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:08,720 >> Okay, Chair has a first and a second, any discussions? 2203 01:30:08,720 --> 01:30:10,079 Any changes? 2204 01:30:10,079 --> 01:30:14,520 Okay, seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board. 2205 01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:24,520 [BLANK_AUDIO] 2206 01:30:26,359 --> 01:30:28,159 Motion passes five to zero. 2207 01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:31,960 Next item is our consent agenda. 2208 01:30:31,960 --> 01:30:34,880 [BLANK_AUDIO] 2209 01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:36,039 Commissioner Beck. 2210 01:30:36,039 --> 01:30:37,960 >> I motion we approve the consent agenda. 2211 01:30:37,960 --> 01:30:39,520 [BLANK_AUDIO] 2212 01:30:39,520 --> 01:30:40,439 >> Commissioner Dudowitz. 2213 01:30:40,439 --> 01:30:40,960 >> I second. 2214 01:30:42,199 --> 01:30:43,880 >> I have a first and a second. 2215 01:30:43,880 --> 01:30:46,439 Any discussion on consent agenda items? 2216 01:30:46,439 --> 01:30:48,680 [BLANK_AUDIO] 2217 01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:50,560 Seeing none, call for a vote on the board. 2218 01:30:50,560 --> 01:30:57,119 [BLANK_AUDIO] 2219 01:30:57,119 --> 01:30:58,640 Motion carries five to zero. 2220 01:30:58,640 --> 01:31:01,159 [BLANK_AUDIO] 2221 01:31:01,159 --> 01:31:04,239 Next item of business is our public hearings. 2222 01:31:05,359 --> 01:31:11,579 And at this time I'm gonna open the public hearing for Z16- 2223 01:31:11,579 --> 01:31:12,960 0001. 2224 01:31:12,960 --> 01:31:15,439 I'll turn over to Manal for who's gonna present or 2225 01:31:15,439 --> 01:31:17,640 we just gonna go ahead and table that, okay? 2226 01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:19,399 >> The applicants requested a continuation so 2227 01:31:19,399 --> 01:31:21,039 we'd have to open the public hearing and 2228 01:31:21,039 --> 01:31:24,149 that the next PNC, at the requested PNC date it would be an 2229 01:31:24,149 --> 01:31:25,039 IC item. 2230 01:31:25,039 --> 01:31:28,800 >> Okay, at the request of the applicant this agenda item 2231 01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:29,720 has been continued to 2232 01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:34,239 March the 9th and at this time I will close the public 2233 01:31:34,239 --> 01:31:34,960 hearing and 2234 01:31:34,960 --> 01:31:39,600 we will reopen at that time and that will move us to 2235 01:31:41,840 --> 01:31:44,000 concluding items in our project matrix. 2236 01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:54,000 [BLANK_AUDIO] 2237 01:31:55,920 --> 01:31:58,359 Anybody have any concluding items or want an update on 2238 01:31:58,359 --> 01:32:00,000 project matrix? 2239 01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:06,279 Okay, seeing none at 6.50 I will close our meeting tonight. 2240 01:32:06,279 --> 01:32:06,779 Thank you. 2241 01:32:06,779 --> 01:32:16,779 [BLANK_AUDIO]