WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.759
for the City of Denton. It is five o'clock. This meeting

00:00:04.759 --> 00:00:05.440
has been duly

00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:10.410
posted and we do have a quorum present and our first item

00:00:10.410 --> 00:00:12.080
of business in our

00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:20.039
work session is going to be clarification of agenda items.

00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:21.679
Thank you Chairperson

00:00:21.679 --> 00:00:25.530
Strange. If the Commission has any questions regarding the

00:00:25.530 --> 00:00:26.239
plots we can go

00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:29.469
over this. Over those else we can dive straight into the

00:00:29.469 --> 00:00:30.559
other two public

00:00:30.559 --> 00:00:34.399
hearing items that we have. I just wanted to get a feel if

00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:35.560
we were comfortable

00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:42.840
with the plants. Question on plants. One of the plants we

00:00:42.840 --> 00:00:43.960
're looking at is that

00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:52.880
where caliber collision is asking okay my I had a question

00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:54.240
about. Let me

00:00:54.240 --> 00:01:03.799
recognize you Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. No I'm

00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:05.840
thinking of the one where they're going to do

00:01:05.840 --> 00:01:12.280
cavenders. That's not a plant issue is it? Okay. Super.

00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:17.299
Anybody else on the question on plant or we're going to

00:01:17.299 --> 00:01:20.760
move on to something else?

00:01:20.760 --> 00:01:24.209
In that case we'll go ahead and move on to our public

00:01:24.209 --> 00:01:26.200
hearing items that will be

00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:29.409
heard at the public hearing. The first one is regarding an

00:01:29.409 --> 00:01:30.400
amendment to the

00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:32.750
Fry Street overlay district. I'm going to ask Sophie Humer

00:01:32.750 --> 00:01:33.239
to make that

00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:48.079
presentation for us. Good evening Commissioners. Sophie Hum

00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:48.680
er, Assistant

00:01:48.680 --> 00:01:52.799
Planner. I'll be presenting to you Z1529 the Fry Street

00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:53.680
overlay district

00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:57.069
amendment. The request before you is to hold a public

00:01:57.069 --> 00:01:58.040
hearing and consider

00:01:58.040 --> 00:02:01.780
making a recommendation to City Council regarding amending

00:02:01.780 --> 00:02:03.480
subchapter 3575

00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:07.620
Fry Street overlay district to create a new sub district in

00:02:07.620 --> 00:02:08.120
development

00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:12.849
standards for a mixed-use building on approximately 1.7

00:02:12.849 --> 00:02:15.080
acres. The proposed

00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:19.199
development is located on West Oak and West Hickory Street.

00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:20.439
It has frontage on

00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:23.639
both of those roads. It's also located between Fry Street

00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:25.360
and Avenue B. However

00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:29.740
it does not have frontage on either of those roads. The

00:02:29.740 --> 00:02:31.520
zoning for the property

00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:36.240
is downtown commercial general but it's located within the

00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:39.280
Fry Street overlay district and in a couple slides I'll get

00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:40.360
into what exactly

00:02:40.360 --> 00:02:43.740
that means. It's also important to remember that multif

00:02:43.740 --> 00:02:44.960
amily and retail are

00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:49.180
permitted by right in the district. So the Fry Street

00:02:49.180 --> 00:02:50.439
overlay district was

00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:53.099
created in 2000 to preserve the unique history and

00:02:53.099 --> 00:02:55.120
character of the area. Under

00:02:55.120 --> 00:02:58.469
sub area A at this time and as it stands in the ordinance

00:02:58.469 --> 00:03:00.439
today, in sub area A you

00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:05.259
can have a building of 45 feet in height maximum of three

00:03:05.259 --> 00:03:06.919
stories and the

00:03:06.919 --> 00:03:10.270
density of multifamily units is based on a minimum unit

00:03:10.270 --> 00:03:11.759
size. So for example

00:03:11.759 --> 00:03:15.199
efficiency apartments are approximately 1,000 square feet

00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:20.080
and so on. In 2010 the

00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:24.439
Fry Street overlay district was further amended to

00:03:24.439 --> 00:03:24.960
accommodate a

00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:28.159
mixed-use development. Again multifamily and retail on the

00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:29.800
bottom and in this

00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:34.250
sub area the height of the building went to 55 feet, a

00:03:34.250 --> 00:03:36.000
total of four stories and

00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:40.960
the density was set at 72.5 units per acre. What remains in

00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:42.400
this green area is

00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:49.300
still sub area A. Commissioner Beck. Units are what? Bed

00:03:49.300 --> 00:03:50.840
rooms or the entire

00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:55.550
part? Are we counting kitchens? Sure one bedroom is equal

00:03:55.550 --> 00:03:57.199
to one half of a unit

00:03:57.199 --> 00:04:01.400
and so all of the measurements you'll see are based on that

00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:02.319
. They're

00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:05.580
essentially calibrated to that density. So two bedroom

00:04:05.580 --> 00:04:10.400
apartment is a unit? Unit. Okay thank you.

00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:15.169
So the applicant EDR is proposing to further amend the Fry

00:04:15.169 --> 00:04:16.160
Street overlay

00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:19.720
district creating sub area B1 to accommodate multifamily

00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:20.639
and retail. In

00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:25.079
this sub district or sub area the height would be 58 feet,

00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:26.680
a total of five stories

00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:32.600
and the density would be 88.2 units per acre. The applicant

00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:32.959
is also

00:04:32.959 --> 00:04:36.399
requesting amendments to the multifamily parking

00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:38.160
regulations. Sub area

00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:43.120
A and B only require one space for multi-family units with

00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:43.399
two or

00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:47.519
more bedrooms. Sub area B1 is asking for units with two or

00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:49.160
more bedrooms to only

00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:54.560
require 0.75 spaces per bedroom. No other amendments are

00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:55.839
going to be made to the

00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:59.279
parking ratios of the Fry Street overlay district in this

00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:01.480
proposal. This is just

00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:04.370
a summary slide and we can come back to this at the end of

00:05:04.370 --> 00:05:05.519
the presentation of

00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:09.899
the current sub areas and then the proposed sub area B1. So

00:05:09.899 --> 00:05:11.199
now I want to

00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:14.480
delve a little bit into the neighborhood university

00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:15.199
compatibility

00:05:15.199 --> 00:05:18.480
future land use designation and what that means to the area

00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:20.000
. So the subject

00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:22.920
property is located in this neighborhood university

00:05:22.920 --> 00:05:25.420
compatibility area. UNT is to

00:05:25.420 --> 00:05:28.870
the south and it's flanked on the east and west by low

00:05:28.870 --> 00:05:30.399
residential future land

00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:34.139
use designations and to the north is a neighborhood mixed

00:05:34.139 --> 00:05:36.560
use designation. Some

00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:39.220
of the goals of the neighborhood university land use

00:05:39.220 --> 00:05:39.959
chapter and this is

00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:43.449
direct from the Denton plan 2030 is that the area should

00:05:43.449 --> 00:05:44.480
provide a gradual

00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:47.300
transition in scale use and character between the

00:05:47.300 --> 00:05:48.560
universities and the

00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:51.839
surrounding neighborhoods. Development should also

00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:53.160
encourage uses that are in

00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:57.019
close proximity to one another and encourage walking and

00:05:57.019 --> 00:05:58.800
bicycling. Character

00:05:58.800 --> 00:06:01.629
of the area should also be maintained to ensure that new

00:06:01.629 --> 00:06:02.959
development is sensitive

00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:05.620
to the surrounding and surrounding built and natural

00:06:05.620 --> 00:06:06.959
environment in terms of

00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:11.199
scale and form. The development should also adequately

00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:12.759
address parking needs to

00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:16.750
mitigate the impact to adjacent neighborhoods. So now

00:06:16.750 --> 00:06:17.959
moving into the

00:06:17.959 --> 00:06:20.699
considerations the purpose of the Fry Street overlay

00:06:20.699 --> 00:06:22.060
district originally was

00:06:22.060 --> 00:06:25.410
to maintain the character of the area. It's traditionally

00:06:25.410 --> 00:06:27.439
commercial area. Proposed

00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:30.149
amendment would allow for one of the highest densities that

00:06:30.149 --> 00:06:30.879
we've seen in the

00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:33.769
area and while the use is permitted the original intent

00:06:33.769 --> 00:06:35.839
again of the overlay was

00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:40.540
to maintain cohesive development and maintain the character

00:06:40.540 --> 00:06:41.680
of the area.

00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:45.579
There's also a deficit between what is required by the

00:06:45.579 --> 00:06:47.879
overlay district and what

00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:51.199
the proposed amendment would do to that parking requirement

00:06:51.199 --> 00:06:52.000
for this development

00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:57.500
essentially there would be a 110 space deficit in the

00:06:57.500 --> 00:06:59.920
parking and reductions on

00:06:59.920 --> 00:07:03.230
this site-by-site basis aren't a comprehensive approach to

00:07:03.230 --> 00:07:04.079
analyzing the

00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:09.439
impact of parking reductions in the greater Fry Street area

00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:12.839
. These are some

00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:16.009
departmental considerations. The scoping for the traffic

00:07:16.009 --> 00:07:17.560
impact analysis has been

00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:21.750
initiated however the TIA has not been submitted for review

00:07:21.750 --> 00:07:23.000
and also from the

00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:26.040
fire department the applicant has not yet been able to

00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:27.079
verify the aerial

00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:30.430
apparatus access to the building with the site plans that

00:07:30.430 --> 00:07:31.560
we've provided in

00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:37.389
your backup. Commissioner Taylor. Just to clarify what is

00:07:37.389 --> 00:07:38.800
that last phrase about

00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:45.230
aerial apparatus access? Sure they you know in addition to

00:07:45.230 --> 00:07:47.439
the minimum or sorry

00:07:47.439 --> 00:07:51.069
in addition to the sprinkler system inside the building the

00:07:51.069 --> 00:07:52.279
fire truck also

00:07:52.279 --> 00:07:56.430
has to be able to air aerially access the building. They

00:07:56.430 --> 00:07:57.920
need I believe 15 feet

00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:01.720
off of the building and then a 26 foot wide fire lane.

00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:03.800
Currently based on the

00:08:03.800 --> 00:08:08.800
site plan they only have 10 feet. The Sterling Fry

00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:10.839
development went through a

00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:15.170
council initiated process. The developer initiated it it

00:08:15.170 --> 00:08:16.319
had to go to council

00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:20.160
where they eliminated parking on Fry and Welch. I believe

00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:21.480
that is something that

00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:24.449
the applicant is still pursuing however staff has not been

00:08:24.449 --> 00:08:25.160
able to review

00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:29.279
anything yet. So there isn't a question of having the

00:08:29.279 --> 00:08:30.519
equipment it's just having

00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:34.409
enough access for the equipment to reach. Correct. Okay

00:08:34.409 --> 00:08:36.759
thank you. Commissioner Beck.

00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:42.509
Do we have reasons why both of these are not available now?

00:08:42.509 --> 00:08:43.879
Why they've been delayed?

00:08:43.879 --> 00:08:50.440
It's timing. In the backup we provided a project timeline.

00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:52.200
The full

00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:56.149
submittal was done in December and it went through its

00:08:56.149 --> 00:08:57.879
first review process.

00:08:57.879 --> 00:09:01.720
Technically its status is currently returned for review

00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:03.159
which means that

00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:07.389
fire engineering planning still have some outstanding

00:09:07.389 --> 00:09:09.600
concerns. However it is

00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:13.399
the full right of the applicant to move it forward to PNZ.

00:09:13.399 --> 00:09:15.320
Some of these will

00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:19.759
affect the site plan. There are there is a minor amendment

00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:20.799
procedure already in

00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:24.350
the Fry Street overlay district so some of these could come

00:09:24.350 --> 00:09:25.440
back and be minor

00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:31.320
amendments if they hit that threshold. Okay thanks. And

00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:33.879
just to clarify if I may

00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:38.409
the applicant if the request from the applicant is request

00:09:38.409 --> 00:09:39.600
for approval of the

00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:41.950
amendments that are proposed in front of you so as it

00:09:41.950 --> 00:09:43.080
relates to the site plan

00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:46.450
and as it relates to if this were approved and they're

00:09:46.450 --> 00:09:47.600
building permit

00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:51.600
approval would be contingent on ensuring the TIA was

00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:53.399
addressed, accurately

00:09:53.399 --> 00:09:55.840
reviewed and addressed and all the comments associated with

00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:56.480
that as well as

00:09:56.480 --> 00:10:00.049
all health and safety requirements associated with the fire

00:10:00.049 --> 00:10:00.799
department.

00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:05.960
Just a question. I don't recall us having projects come

00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:06.960
before us since most things

00:10:06.960 --> 00:10:11.490
haven't been done correctly or I don't say correctly yet

00:10:11.490 --> 00:10:12.320
before it's presented

00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:15.009
to us. Is there some sort of reason why there's a fast

00:10:15.009 --> 00:10:16.399
track as to why they're

00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:19.059
have a deadline or something they're trying to meet and we

00:10:19.059 --> 00:10:19.679
should even

00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:22.529
consider moving this on to council and let them take care

00:10:22.529 --> 00:10:23.519
of this before it gets

00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:28.049
to council? When the applicant turned in their submittal

00:10:28.049 --> 00:10:28.320
when they

00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:30.740
intimated that they were wanting to proceed with this

00:10:30.740 --> 00:10:32.120
program their primary

00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:34.940
intent was to determine if they would actually secure

00:10:34.940 --> 00:10:35.720
approval of these

00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:39.100
amendments. In order to review the amendments they did give

00:10:39.100 --> 00:10:39.960
a concept plan

00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:43.679
that showed the massing of the building and through that

00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:44.919
review these elements

00:10:44.919 --> 00:10:48.580
were identified. As part of a zoning change request they

00:10:48.580 --> 00:10:49.759
can't anybody can

00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:52.970
come in and request a zoning change or amendment to a

00:10:52.970 --> 00:10:54.399
zoning document or an

00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:57.500
overlay district and then it is the responsibility of the

00:10:57.500 --> 00:10:58.759
planning staff to

00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:01.500
do a slide use analysis to determine the appropriateness of

00:11:01.500 --> 00:11:02.679
the request and of

00:11:02.679 --> 00:11:05.769
course the Commission then can recommend favorably table

00:11:05.769 --> 00:11:06.519
the item add

00:11:06.519 --> 00:11:09.779
considerations or conditions to it and move it on to City

00:11:09.779 --> 00:11:10.759
Council or deny the

00:11:10.759 --> 00:11:19.080
request and move it on to City Council. Okay thank you. So

00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:20.799
in analysis of the

00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:24.620
development in its kind of cohesiveness with the Denton

00:11:24.620 --> 00:11:26.960
plan 2030 we recognize

00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:29.200
that the development would increase the stock of student

00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:30.000
housing which is an

00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:33.879
important component of the Denton plan 2030. However there

00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:35.000
are some associated

00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:38.259
development conditions that aren't consistent with the Dent

00:11:38.259 --> 00:11:39.200
on plan and these

00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:42.350
are very important considerations to staff and also to the

00:11:42.350 --> 00:11:43.399
neighborhood. One

00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:46.059
is that it doesn't adequately address the parking needs for

00:11:46.059 --> 00:11:46.639
the project and

00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:50.799
doesn't mitigate spillover to the surrounding area. There's

00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:51.320
also a

00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:54.399
potential impact on surrounding infrastructure and there's

00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:54.399
an

00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:59.049
inconsistency in urban form and scale specifically related

00:11:59.049 --> 00:12:01.360
to the height. Staff

00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:04.019
also has concerns about the continuous amendments to the

00:12:04.019 --> 00:12:04.960
Fry Street overlay

00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:07.759
district standards without fully understanding the impact

00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:08.240
of higher

00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:11.519
density and intensity projects on infrastructure,

00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:12.440
transportation and

00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:17.480
parking network, neighborhood compatibility. However we do

00:12:17.480 --> 00:12:17.740
see

00:12:17.740 --> 00:12:19.889
development pressure in this area and we want to make sure

00:12:19.889 --> 00:12:20.799
that those things are

00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:24.480
taken care of so the developer can come in request these

00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:25.840
changes and have them

00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:29.049
fully compatible with the neighborhood. So staff has taken

00:12:29.049 --> 00:12:29.919
a look at doing a

00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:34.269
revised Fry Street area small area plan that was presented

00:12:34.269 --> 00:12:35.480
to Council yesterday

00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:40.559
to favorable reception so I just wanted to throw that in as

00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:42.159
a FYI.

00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:49.120
Staff presented just a draft work plan to City Council

00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:49.759
during work

00:12:49.759 --> 00:12:56.559
session about a Fry Street small area plan and it would try

00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:56.600
to

00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:00.720
address these needs so that developers could come in and

00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:02.080
see that there are

00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:07.759
things that we're working on and trying to get just take a

00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:12.000
look at. Commissioner

00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:18.279
Taylor. Thank you chair. What specific infrastructure is

00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:19.840
concerning? Sure,

00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:26.240
there I believe sewer. There are some outstanding issues on

00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:27.240
the sewer whether

00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:32.240
an upsize is needed to align. I believe it's on Hickory. I

00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:33.240
think Earl can correct

00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:40.039
me if I'm wrong. Okay. This also this area there's old

00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:42.120
infrastructure and there

00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:46.259
are some CIP projects in this area and it just needs a

00:13:46.259 --> 00:13:48.080
comprehensive look to

00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:53.980
see what these intensity projects do to this area. Thank

00:13:53.980 --> 00:13:56.159
you. I'll chime in on

00:13:56.159 --> 00:14:01.200
that question. Is it a capacity issue or the age of the

00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:03.399
infrastructure? I would

00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:06.679
ask Earl to answer that question.

00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:22.720
Good evening. It's more of a capacity issue given the

00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:24.000
intensity of the uses

00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:27.179
coming in and the size of the infrastructure that's along H

00:14:27.179 --> 00:14:27.600
ickory.

00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:33.039
Okay I just want to make sure it's a capacity that they

00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:34.240
would be responsible

00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:37.009
for that versus. No if it's the age of the infrastructure

00:14:37.009 --> 00:14:37.840
it'd be more of a

00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:41.129
maintenance. Correct. Okay. So is this just to follow up.

00:14:41.129 --> 00:14:42.240
Commissioner Taylor. Thank you.

00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:46.769
Is the the capacity is it a localized issue or is it from

00:14:46.769 --> 00:14:48.679
Fry Street to

00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:51.720
Mayhill needs to be upgraded? It would be more of a

00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:53.360
localized issue we just haven't

00:14:53.360 --> 00:15:00.200
really gone into evaluation without any demand information.

00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:10.480
Commissioner Roselle. Thank you Chair. Obviously I wasn't

00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:12.120
around in 2010 to

00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:18.220
understand the sub area B. It seems as though that the two

00:15:18.220 --> 00:15:19.679
main differences are

00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:23.720
the height and the parking considerations. If anyone knows

00:15:23.720 --> 00:15:24.000
can

00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:26.250
someone walk me through. Is there any differences I'm

00:15:26.250 --> 00:15:26.960
missing because it's a

00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:31.039
three foot higher building and there's the parking which is

00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:32.200
I think substantial.

00:15:32.200 --> 00:15:34.860
Is there anything else significant about the two? I'm

00:15:34.860 --> 00:15:35.720
wondering why these other

00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:39.840
issues were they addressed and the other sub area B and how

00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:41.200
did that get passed?

00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:46.809
Maybe some history of that would be helpful. Sure in 2010

00:15:46.809 --> 00:15:47.879
the application

00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:51.350
came forward it was very I believe it was very similar to

00:15:51.350 --> 00:15:51.960
this one

00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:57.509
multifamily use project mixed use. That project the Ster

00:15:57.509 --> 00:15:59.200
ling Fry located a

00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:03.730
little bit further east of this project. They were able to

00:16:03.730 --> 00:16:05.200
meet their parking

00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:08.639
requirements. They were able to do one-for-one parking once

00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.120
they got the

00:16:11.120 --> 00:16:17.379
alleviation on Fry Street and Welch. The size I believe was

00:16:17.379 --> 00:16:19.000
also a consideration.

00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:22.940
Based on our neighborhood meetings that we've held recently

00:16:22.940 --> 00:16:23.720
a lot of the

00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:29.159
neighbors aren't happy with the way that parking is in the

00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:31.399
neighborhood. They're

00:16:31.399 --> 00:16:34.639
also concerned about buildings being brought up to the

00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:36.559
street line. Landscape

00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:39.909
was also brought up during those neighborhood meetings and

00:16:39.909 --> 00:16:41.000
just a couple

00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:51.360
other kind of public realm issues. So I wasn't here in 2010

00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:53.600
. And if I can chime

00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:57.740
in from a staff perspective or from a planning discipline

00:16:57.740 --> 00:16:59.159
perspective one of

00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:04.000
the criteria that we have to strongly understand and

00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:05.880
analyze is are we further

00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:08.619
compromising an overlay district that was established to

00:17:08.619 --> 00:17:09.640
meet a specific goal

00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:13.289
or some specific criteria or goals. In this instance then

00:17:13.289 --> 00:17:14.640
the question arises

00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:18.769
are we going to continue to amend this overlay district or

00:17:18.769 --> 00:17:19.960
to accommodate

00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:23.440
development or do we need to look at the bigger picture and

00:17:23.440 --> 00:17:24.799
revisit that corridor

00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:27.220
or the Fry Street overlay district and come up with

00:17:27.220 --> 00:17:28.460
criteria that are actually

00:17:28.460 --> 00:17:31.829
more attractive and can sustain and attract development.

00:17:31.829 --> 00:17:33.160
And that's the bigger

00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:36.720
picture that we have to analyze at this point as well.

00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:42.079
So to follow up with that. Commissioner Rosale. Thank you.

00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:44.720
By rights if this met

00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:49.269
parking and height requirements they wouldn't need the new

00:17:49.269 --> 00:17:51.079
overlay? Correct. So

00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:54.519
if they if they complied with the existing conditions

00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:55.680
specified in sub

00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:59.630
area B, A I'm sorry in sub area A and they met all those

00:17:59.630 --> 00:18:00.559
requirements which is

00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:02.700
parking and building height they would go straight from

00:18:02.700 --> 00:18:03.559
building permits at

00:18:03.559 --> 00:18:11.190
the moment. Thank you. Before we move on you mentioned

00:18:11.190 --> 00:18:12.519
there was a they just

00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:17.839
passed a slide the Fry Street small area plan. Would it be

00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:18.640
appropriate to

00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:23.420
share or not at this time the direction and the favorable

00:18:23.420 --> 00:18:24.759
response from council

00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:27.849
to give us a little better idea of where we're going with

00:18:27.849 --> 00:18:28.759
this or is that

00:18:28.759 --> 00:18:32.960
premature to get into that? We can discuss what was

00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:34.920
presented at the City

00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:40.470
Council work session yesterday. Two things that we need to

00:18:40.470 --> 00:18:41.559
preface this

00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:44.599
discussion or conversation with is one we adopted the

00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:46.119
comprehensive plan just

00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:50.740
recently. One of the major goals primary short-term goals

00:18:50.740 --> 00:18:52.200
of this comprehensive

00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:56.240
plan Denton plan 2030 is to revisit our small area plans

00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:57.000
and it specifically

00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:00.869
highlights or addresses this area as well. That being said

00:19:00.869 --> 00:19:01.640
we started

00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:04.960
evaluating and understanding what small areas do we need to

00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:05.960
start looking at.

00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:09.650
We've received a lot of queries regarding this area and we

00:19:09.650 --> 00:19:10.839
strongly feel

00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:13.670
that we need to have parameters in place that would

00:19:13.670 --> 00:19:15.759
accommodate that. We also know

00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:20.720
that the neighborhood is extremely involved and active in

00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:22.119
improving their

00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:26.809
community and their neighborhood. That being said we also

00:19:26.809 --> 00:19:28.359
presented to the City

00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:31.940
Council yesterday in a work session saying we would like to

00:19:31.940 --> 00:19:33.099
initiate a small

00:19:33.099 --> 00:19:36.980
area plan and through that address the Fry Street small

00:19:36.980 --> 00:19:38.559
area plan. Do that as a

00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:41.789
subset. Create a small Fry Street small area plan and

00:19:41.789 --> 00:19:42.960
address overlay

00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:48.829
conditions on a parallel track once the small area plan is

00:19:48.829 --> 00:19:50.680
initiated. We received

00:19:50.680 --> 00:19:54.490
a lot of questions from our City Council and we feel we

00:19:54.490 --> 00:19:55.920
sufficiently addressed

00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:00.880
those, succinctly addressed those as well and we will now

00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:02.400
proceed to the next

00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:05.960
steps which is to hopefully establish a committee through

00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:07.140
nomination by City

00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:15.950
Council. So we have a ways to go then? Yes. Okay. Thanks.

00:20:15.950 --> 00:20:18.319
So just to expand on

00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:21.119
those neighborhood meetings, two of them were held.

00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:22.559
Neighborhood expressed the

00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:25.730
level of comfort with sub area A of the Fry Street overlay

00:20:25.730 --> 00:20:26.759
district as it was

00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:29.950
written. Concerns were raised by attendance of the meeting

00:20:29.950 --> 00:20:30.619
that included

00:20:30.619 --> 00:20:34.859
increased traffic along Oak and Hickory, pedestrian and veh

00:20:34.859 --> 00:20:36.240
icular traffic as well

00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:39.549
as bike traffic, increased parking in single-family

00:20:39.549 --> 00:20:40.680
neighborhoods adjacent to

00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:44.500
the project, that parking spillover, and also the lack of a

00:20:44.500 --> 00:20:45.720
shade study to study

00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:51.970
for the height of the building. Per section 3573 of the

00:20:51.970 --> 00:20:53.119
Denton Development

00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:56.029
Code, special purpose overlay districts are established to

00:20:56.029 --> 00:20:57.480
protect and enhance

00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:01.890
specific neighborhoods, groupings of buildings. These

00:21:01.890 --> 00:21:02.960
buildings have

00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:06.059
characteristics or these areas have characteristics which

00:21:06.059 --> 00:21:07.680
are distinct from

00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:11.500
lands and structures outside of those districts. Changes to

00:21:11.500 --> 00:21:12.400
the overlay

00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:15.299
district must enhance or conform to the purpose of the

00:21:15.299 --> 00:21:16.799
overlay district's goals

00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:21.759
and objectives. As submitted, the proposed development only

00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:22.640
further amends the

00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:25.490
district to conform to specific development proposal

00:21:25.490 --> 00:21:27.039
without comprehensive

00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:31.920
analysis of the impact to adjacent neighborhoods.

00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:38.680
That notification date is wrong. Public notifications were

00:21:38.680 --> 00:21:41.640
sent out earlier this

00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:48.440
year. 27 were sent out. 27 200 foot public notices were

00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:49.440
sent out. 500

00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:52.230
courtesy notices were sent out via regular mail and I can

00:21:52.230 --> 00:21:53.160
get that date for

00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:56.160
you in regular session.

00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:58.630
-Sophie? -Yes. -Pardon me. Can you go back to that last

00:21:58.630 --> 00:22:00.839
slide? -Commissioner Bruegel. -Thank you, Chair.

00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:03.569
So I know that there's been neighborhood meetings about

00:22:03.569 --> 00:22:04.279
this and I've been

00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:08.039
hearing from people who live in this neighborhood. Have any

00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:08.640
notifications

00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:10.920
come in since? I mean, I would think that there would be

00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:12.279
something highlighted

00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:16.460
in this 200 and 500 foot buffer? Did I get lost in the mail

00:22:16.460 --> 00:22:22.039
? Where are they? -A lot of these, if

00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:24.740
you look at the land use around this, they're mostly

00:22:24.740 --> 00:22:26.400
businesses, multi-family,

00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:30.710
they're not owner occupied. That is the limitation of the

00:22:30.710 --> 00:22:32.559
200 and the 500 foot

00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:37.519
notice that's required by state law. Of course we take it

00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:38.759
head to head when we

00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:41.990
consider the input from those neighborhood meetings. I

00:22:41.990 --> 00:22:42.519
think I

00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:45.240
provided additional information in the staff report as well

00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:47.539
. But no, even by

00:22:47.539 --> 00:22:52.599
phone I have not heard. We also provide our emails on those

00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:53.880
notification letters,

00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:59.130
phone numbers, all of that. -Okay. Yeah, thanks. -No

00:22:59.130 --> 00:23:02.000
problem. -Commissioner Beck. -That does seem odd.

00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:06.440
I made the public aware of just literally what we're gonna

00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:07.160
do at the

00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:09.960
workshop today and that was all I pointed out. And there

00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:11.319
were several people that

00:23:11.319 --> 00:23:14.490
acted like they weren't aware of this at all. And one was a

00:23:14.490 --> 00:23:16.640
business owner, Kim,

00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:22.190
sorry, I can't remember the last name. So I'm wondering if,

00:23:22.190 --> 00:23:23.680
you know, we did make

00:23:23.680 --> 00:23:26.720
contact well enough. I know the attempt was, okay, nothing

00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:28.880
ain't there, but there's

00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:33.559
probably more opposition to this than this indicates here.

00:23:33.559 --> 00:23:34.799
So how do we go

00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:40.500
about revisiting this, I guess, based on what I'm seeing in

00:23:40.500 --> 00:23:42.839
here? -If I can cut in. -Commissioner Bruegel. -Thank you,

00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:44.119
Chair. I'm glad that we have the public

00:23:44.119 --> 00:23:47.470
hearing process because if we're only contacting the owners

00:23:47.470 --> 00:23:48.319
of the properties

00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:52.039
who may not, I don't know if they live in the area or not,

00:23:52.039 --> 00:23:53.839
I'm glad that the

00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:55.849
there is that public hearing process so we will have an

00:23:55.849 --> 00:23:56.720
opportunity to hear from

00:23:56.720 --> 00:23:59.140
the public and that, you know, there have been neighborhood

00:23:59.140 --> 00:23:59.799
meetings on this

00:23:59.799 --> 00:24:01.799
because I'm really curious to hear what the people who

00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:02.680
actually live in that

00:24:02.680 --> 00:24:07.640
area have to say about that because this map is not, it

00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:08.440
doesn't help, it doesn't

00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:10.180
give me a good sense of where the neighborhood's at so I'm

00:24:10.180 --> 00:24:10.640
glad we have

00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:13.299
this this evening. -We're doing the public hearing today,

00:24:13.299 --> 00:24:16.000
right? -Commissioner Peck, I think I'll throw in maybe

00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:18.160
where you're going. I mean, obviously the

00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:20.569
knows that the center's certified so they definitely get

00:24:20.569 --> 00:24:23.680
them. Where these come back

00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:27.089
into play and you have people outside have an opinion but

00:24:27.089 --> 00:24:28.279
this comes into play

00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:31.450
in far as our vote the percentage of responses that we get

00:24:31.450 --> 00:24:32.319
that would be

00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:36.690
opposed affects the majority that we have to have or voting

00:24:36.690 --> 00:24:37.960
wise on this board

00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:41.099
so at this time based on this map we don't have to have a

00:24:41.099 --> 00:24:42.240
super majority it

00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:46.190
would just be a simple majority vote based on what the no

00:24:46.190 --> 00:24:47.640
opposition for that

00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:52.779
within the 200 foot buffer is. -Okay, so if we get into the

00:24:52.779 --> 00:24:55.000
public here and we do

00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:59.599
have somebody that is in this area and states their

00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:00.720
opposition to it then

00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:03.690
that'll fall into place at that time like the super

00:25:03.690 --> 00:25:06.559
majority requirement. -Actually

00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:10.039
it's a the Ditten code when I did further research does not

00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:10.960
require super

00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:13.619
majority for this board so we're only going to do it for

00:25:13.619 --> 00:25:14.400
council so that we

00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:17.160
are able to have written objection all the way up to the

00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:18.240
actual public hearing

00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:22.480
date for council. -Thank you for the correction.

00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:31.039
-So staff is recommending denial of Z1529 based on the

00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:31.839
considerations

00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:36.400
presented and as the request the requested amendment

00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:37.440
further compromises

00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:40.990
the Fry Street overlay district standards. That's the end

00:25:40.990 --> 00:25:41.400
of my

00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:48.319
presentation. Commissioner Bruegel. -Thank you chair. So I

00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:50.319
guess I have more of a

00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:56.170
comment for staff than a question and this has come up in

00:25:56.170 --> 00:25:58.160
in other amendments

00:25:58.160 --> 00:26:03.710
and ordinances that I've reviewed. Specifically on now this

00:26:03.710 --> 00:26:05.160
is the draft so

00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:07.599
I wish that this would have gotten fixed before it came to

00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:10.519
us but on page 11 on

00:26:10.519 --> 00:26:16.930
page 11 twice it mentions hold on I want to find exactly

00:26:16.930 --> 00:26:19.160
the words here. Sorry

00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:23.480
thank you okay and this is in the draft so I wish it would

00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:24.039
have gotten fixed

00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:31.200
before it came to us. -Of the overlay. -Yeah yeah yeah no

00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:32.319
my point my point is

00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:34.819
just kind of a general one not really specific to this plan

00:26:34.819 --> 00:26:35.720
but in general on

00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:39.180
page 11 twice it mentions the director of planning and

00:26:39.180 --> 00:26:41.359
development or quote his

00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:46.519
designee and I mean we are an inclusive city and I would

00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:47.920
very much like if the

00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:50.579
language that we have in these ordinances and amendments

00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:51.839
could be more

00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:55.650
inclusive as well so that's my that's my comment in general

00:26:55.650 --> 00:26:56.519
to staff is like when

00:26:56.519 --> 00:26:58.940
we get red line stuff like let's just take care of that

00:26:58.940 --> 00:27:00.920
yeah. -Commissioner Bruegel

00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:03.319
that will be addressed. -Thank you. -I'm sensitive to that

00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:04.720
too so we will start

00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:08.099
saying their designee. -Thank you thank you ladies

00:27:08.099 --> 00:27:10.759
appreciate it.

00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:16.339
-Commissioner Beck. -Thank you chair. Let's see you

00:27:16.339 --> 00:27:18.839
indicate that while this parking

00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:21.809
does align with the goals of creating more walkable and

00:27:21.809 --> 00:27:22.720
pedestrian mine

00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:25.380
environment reductions in the requirement on a site-by-site

00:27:25.380 --> 00:27:25.799
occurrence

00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:29.109
is not a comprehensive approach to analyzing the impact of

00:27:29.109 --> 00:27:30.160
parking reduction

00:27:30.160 --> 00:27:34.329
and correct you know so let me see if I understand what we

00:27:34.329 --> 00:27:35.640
're talking about here

00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:40.420
the idea here with creating additions where there's fewer

00:27:40.420 --> 00:27:41.920
parking spaces is

00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:45.059
automatically going to enhance more walking is that the

00:27:45.059 --> 00:27:45.920
idea behind what

00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:50.500
they're thinking is? -There's well-established literature

00:27:50.500 --> 00:27:51.759
on parking

00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:56.809
minimums essentially create induced parking demand if there

00:27:56.809 --> 00:27:57.519
are parking

00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:00.180
spaces people are going to be encouraged to drive and of

00:28:00.180 --> 00:28:01.160
course we want there to

00:28:01.160 --> 00:28:03.819
be adequate parking in our neighborhood districts in our

00:28:03.819 --> 00:28:04.759
downtown for people to

00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:07.980
come and visit but for people that live in that area that

00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:09.160
may want to walk and

00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:14.720
do that sort of thing parking minimums are best adopted at

00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:15.920
a more macro level

00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:18.960
rather on a site-by-site basis where they're hard to track

00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:19.839
and it's hard to

00:28:19.839 --> 00:28:23.960
track the impact of those on those developments. -And

00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:25.240
Sophie if you could talk

00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:27.900
a little bit about let's talk about the overlay district

00:28:27.900 --> 00:28:28.759
itself the existing

00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:31.559
conditions the existing environment the existing land uses

00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:32.400
and then the fact

00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:35.779
that we also have a campus adjacent to that overlay

00:28:35.779 --> 00:28:37.720
district we also have an

00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:40.900
off-street parking requirement we have a CIP program how is

00:28:40.900 --> 00:28:41.960
that off-street going

00:28:41.960 --> 00:28:44.660
to work UNT is looking at their parking program as well

00:28:44.660 --> 00:28:45.920
right now and that

00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:50.039
obviously dominos into any development that occurs with

00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:51.319
this within this area

00:28:51.319 --> 00:28:56.099
so we don't want to compromise accessibility parking

00:28:56.099 --> 00:28:57.759
requirements to an

00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:01.440
extent where it becomes impossible to utilize the site

00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:03.000
either or surrounding

00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:07.079
properties to be able to be accessed.

00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:18.480
-Anybody else?

00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:25.039
Okay thank you Sophie.

00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:34.920
Our next item Ross Cobbiston will be presenting then our

00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:38.359
senior planner and

00:29:38.359 --> 00:29:42.700
he's going to discuss a change in zoning from industrial

00:29:42.700 --> 00:29:44.440
center employment to

00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:51.960
RCCD. Thank you Ross. -Thank you Chair Maddahl. This is Z15

00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:53.279
31, Cavendish boot city.

00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:56.880
As a request as Maddahl said to recommend to City Council

00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:59.119
regarding a rezoning from

00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:02.470
industrial center employment ICE district to a regional

00:30:02.470 --> 00:30:03.680
center commercial

00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:11.059
downtown district RCCD on approximately 2.9 acres. Subject

00:30:11.059 --> 00:30:12.200
property is located

00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:16.890
on the west side of the I-35 frontage road approximately a

00:30:16.890 --> 00:30:18.079
thousand feet south

00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:22.210
of West University Drive. When we look at the zoning the

00:30:22.210 --> 00:30:23.279
intact zoning on the

00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:27.920
property is ICE which was established with the 2002 city

00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:29.160
rezoning for light

00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:34.519
industrial uses within the area and it was anticipated to

00:30:34.519 --> 00:30:35.400
help support

00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:40.609
use anticipated support uses such as office warehouse and

00:30:40.609 --> 00:30:42.119
hotels to support

00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:49.150
the larger ICG district which is industrial commercial

00:30:49.150 --> 00:30:50.519
general over to

00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:53.180
the west which is located more towards the Denton

00:30:53.180 --> 00:30:55.279
Enterprise Airport and

00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:59.640
parcels in between this section and the airport. The ICE

00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:02.599
district does not permit

00:31:02.599 --> 00:31:07.599
retail activity and has a general retail activity and

00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:09.720
limits retail activity to

00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:16.859
only gas station uses by limitation L18 and caps the square

00:31:16.859 --> 00:31:18.400
footage for retail

00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:23.480
as 10,000 square feet only in conjunction to gas station

00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:26.119
uses. RCCD on

00:31:26.119 --> 00:31:29.710
the other hand being proposed in the purple permits retail

00:31:29.710 --> 00:31:30.599
and regional

00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:37.369
activity commercial activity generally throughout the

00:31:37.369 --> 00:31:40.119
district. When we look at

00:31:40.119 --> 00:31:44.799
RCCD zoning the intent of this is to promote mixed-use

00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:45.799
development with urban

00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:49.660
character. It permits a wide array of commercial and retail

00:31:49.660 --> 00:31:50.960
uses and it's

00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:54.769
typically been used as a zoning category for regional

00:31:54.769 --> 00:31:57.359
commercial centers along I-35E.

00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:00.680
Your staff report indicates kind of those series of

00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:02.240
developments along the

00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:08.119
I-35 corridor where our CCD zoning has allowed large retail

00:32:08.119 --> 00:32:10.400
activity. Looking at

00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:13.779
some adjacent uses we do have a gas station on the hard

00:32:13.779 --> 00:32:15.359
corner on the

00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:20.200
southwest corner of 380 and 35. We have permits in for a

00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:22.480
future vehicle repair

00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:28.599
use kind of in between the vacant area. There's a existing

00:32:28.599 --> 00:32:29.400
commercial and

00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:36.569
warehouse storage units existing on site where the north of

00:32:36.569 --> 00:32:37.440
the proposed

00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:42.200
Cavendish site and then down a little bit further is a

00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:43.559
professional office building

00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:47.339
and light manufacturing a little bit further south than

00:32:47.339 --> 00:32:49.200
that. As you can see

00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:53.319
there's the main retail portions with razor-anched to the

00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:55.039
east. Just some

00:32:55.039 --> 00:32:57.700
dividing lines here the railroad line as mentioned in your

00:32:57.700 --> 00:32:58.599
staff report is an

00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:04.730
appropriate divider between industrial uses and commercial

00:33:04.730 --> 00:33:06.359
uses and as the

00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:10.890
sections grow within this area on the I-35 frontage it

00:33:10.890 --> 00:33:12.240
would be better served

00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:20.200
to be rezoned for future retail uses with I under RCCD

00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:22.119
zoning even though at

00:33:22.119 --> 00:33:26.400
this point I can't get to the pointer but this area will

00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:27.160
maintain be

00:33:27.160 --> 00:33:33.460
maintained as ICE until further rezoning occurs. Future

00:33:33.460 --> 00:33:35.759
land use the future land

00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:39.660
use map for the comprehensive plan indicates regional mixed

00:33:39.660 --> 00:33:40.880
use and then

00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:44.430
the dividing line of the railroad shows that industrial

00:33:44.430 --> 00:33:46.119
commerce is a land use

00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:49.759
category on the west side and that rezoning to RCCD is

00:33:49.759 --> 00:33:50.839
consistent with the

00:33:50.839 --> 00:33:55.279
future land use plan. So under the considerations for their

00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:57.000
request RCCD

00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:00.519
would permit commercial and retail uses without zoning

00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:02.720
limitations. RCCD has

00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:06.910
been used to zone regional commercial areas along I-35. The

00:34:06.910 --> 00:34:08.760
rail line is an

00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:11.420
appropriate divider between industrial land uses and

00:34:11.420 --> 00:34:12.519
commercial land uses and

00:34:12.519 --> 00:34:15.630
it's more reasonable that reason that development and

00:34:15.630 --> 00:34:16.920
economic patterns would

00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:20.550
suggest using the I-35 frontage for commercial activity

00:34:20.550 --> 00:34:21.199
instead of

00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:25.889
industrial support surfaces so and it is consistent with

00:34:25.889 --> 00:34:28.000
the future land use map.

00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:33.219
So under the criteria for approval points one and two staff

00:34:33.219 --> 00:34:35.159
has evaluated and

00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:42.190
confers that we are in support of the zoning for those for

00:34:42.190 --> 00:34:42.559
those points.

00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:46.929
Public notifications were made to property owners 200 and

00:34:46.929 --> 00:34:49.159
500 and we only

00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:54.440
have one in response which is the major property owner and

00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:55.920
again we recommend

00:34:55.920 --> 00:35:00.980
approval and I can stand for any questions. Commissioner

00:35:00.980 --> 00:35:01.920
Beck.

00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:12.539
Correct. Correct. We'll just keep it to that level. Thank

00:35:12.539 --> 00:35:17.159
you chair. Commissioner

00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:21.429
Taylor. So you showed that there was going to be a slice to

00:35:21.429 --> 00:35:22.199
the south

00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:28.250
potentially rezoned RCCD this is that a request coming? No

00:35:28.250 --> 00:35:30.360
that was it's stated

00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:30.360
in your report that we did ask the developer to consider

00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:34.960
that he is a major

00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:41.079
property owner for the entire area and he was not willing

00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:42.320
to help to codify

00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:45.630
that at this point and just allows options to be open until

00:35:45.630 --> 00:35:46.400
but we did

00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:50.840
state that you know there is the potentiality of putting

00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:52.159
industrial uses

00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:57.159
as that's the zoning on the ground now. And the site

00:35:57.159 --> 00:35:58.320
immediately to the north

00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:02.460
of this one? Yes. Storage and warehouse? Yes. That front

00:36:02.460 --> 00:36:03.880
building has several

00:36:03.880 --> 00:36:07.230
retails basis is that correct? Correct. Is that a conform

00:36:07.230 --> 00:36:08.679
ing use? Yes it is. It's

00:36:08.679 --> 00:36:14.670
retail in conformance to a the warehouse product warehouses

00:36:14.670 --> 00:36:15.760
to the back so they're

00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:22.039
kind of symbiotic. So that's considered like a just lost a

00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:23.039
office warehouse

00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:26.719
district or something. Okay so and so what's the so the

00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:27.599
limitation on retail

00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:32.130
is less than 10,000 square feet? Correct. And I see okay

00:36:32.130 --> 00:36:33.860
yeah I just look at

00:36:33.860 --> 00:36:38.969
this and you know we we are planning to do some other work

00:36:38.969 --> 00:36:40.400
in this area so I

00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:45.699
was I agree that the railroad track is a natural barrier

00:36:45.699 --> 00:36:47.800
and this area facing an

00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:50.909
interstate and a US highway gets a ton of traffic could be

00:36:50.909 --> 00:36:52.039
a really good retail

00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:57.139
location so I I was wondering again why we what why we aren

00:36:57.139 --> 00:36:58.079
't looking at both

00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:01.309
the area to the north and the area to the south for a more

00:37:01.309 --> 00:37:02.599
appropriate kind of

00:37:02.599 --> 00:37:07.130
retail oriented use while not excluding the warehouse

00:37:07.130 --> 00:37:09.880
aspect perhaps but but

00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:18.469
allowing greater retail use. Any other questions for Ross?

00:37:18.469 --> 00:37:22.679
Thank you.

00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:38.050
I think what I'm going to do at this time it's almost 540

00:37:38.050 --> 00:37:42.679
we've got food and

00:37:42.679 --> 00:37:46.510
I think we've got some pretty long presentations according

00:37:46.510 --> 00:37:47.360
to staff so I

00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:50.119
think we'll take a five minute recess if I get food and

00:37:50.119 --> 00:37:51.280
then we'll start our

00:37:51.280 --> 00:38:03.559
time our next round of presentations. At 548 I think the

00:38:03.559 --> 00:38:04.280
next item we have on

00:38:04.280 --> 00:38:08.550
here is to receive a report regarding the bicycle and

00:38:08.550 --> 00:38:10.920
pedestrian accommodations.

00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:13.579
Thank you Chairperson Strange I'll invite Julie Anderson to

00:38:13.579 --> 00:38:13.900
make this

00:38:13.900 --> 00:38:17.389
presentation for us tonight. Good afternoon Commissioners

00:38:17.389 --> 00:38:18.679
good afternoon

00:38:18.679 --> 00:38:24.079
it's evening close enough. I am Julie Anderson I am the

00:38:24.079 --> 00:38:24.559
bike and ped

00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:27.530
coordinator for the city I've been here for a year

00:38:27.530 --> 00:38:28.440
yesterday was my year

00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:32.400
anniversary date. I think up some past meetings there are

00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:33.199
just some questions

00:38:33.199 --> 00:38:35.860
by the Commissioners of how we actually implement the bike

00:38:35.860 --> 00:38:37.199
plan what's the P&Z

00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:39.699
role in that where are we at so I'm here to just provide

00:38:39.699 --> 00:38:40.639
you with a very nice

00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:45.650
status update of our bike plan and where we are so just

00:38:45.650 --> 00:38:47.000
what we're going to cover

00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:51.119
today what is this actually an update to I'm going to go

00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:51.920
through that part very

00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:54.269
briefly to get to the real meat of it which is how we

00:38:54.269 --> 00:38:55.519
implement our bike plan

00:38:55.519 --> 00:38:58.869
I'm going to go over some of our upcoming and completed

00:38:58.869 --> 00:39:00.079
projects and then

00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:03.119
do an overview I'm going to switch gears and do an overview

00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:04.960
of our 2015 bike ped

00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:08.679
counts that we did in September and I actually forgot to

00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:10.119
include the bike ped

00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:13.199
report count report in your backup so I printed it off

00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:14.960
today and handed it to

00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:20.239
you so you all have that and I will discuss that at the end

00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:21.800
so first of all

00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:24.050
so we're all on the same page of where actually the bike

00:39:24.050 --> 00:39:24.920
ped plan fits in the

00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:29.239
overall grand context of the city so this is our it's

00:39:29.239 --> 00:39:30.519
officially called the

00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:33.179
pedestrian and bicycle linkage component of the Denton

00:39:33.179 --> 00:39:34.559
mobility plan which means

00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:37.460
it's a part of our mobility plan which you guys have heard

00:39:37.460 --> 00:39:38.719
a lot about recently

00:39:38.719 --> 00:39:41.929
so we have the bike ped component we have the roadway

00:39:41.929 --> 00:39:43.159
component and I think

00:39:43.159 --> 00:39:47.280
there's also a trucking freight component and these are all

00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:48.000
part of our

00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:51.739
Denton plan 2030 our comprehensive plan so that's where it

00:39:51.739 --> 00:39:52.679
falls in the grand

00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:55.719
scheme of things and in case you're wondering what exactly

00:39:55.719 --> 00:39:56.679
is it an update to

00:39:56.679 --> 00:40:00.849
why do we call it the update to well in April of 2001 they

00:40:00.849 --> 00:40:01.960
passed an ordinance

00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:06.920
of the bike ped the ped bike linkage component map and this

00:40:06.920 --> 00:40:07.860
was just an

00:40:07.860 --> 00:40:12.000
ordinance with some talking points about why we plan for

00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:12.960
pedestrians and

00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:16.800
bicyclists three highlights sidewalks should be given

00:40:16.800 --> 00:40:17.920
priority in funding

00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:21.030
talked about bike and ped trails that were eight feet in

00:40:21.030 --> 00:40:22.119
width since then

00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:26.789
Ashtos upgraded their minimum to 10 and then I talked about

00:40:26.789 --> 00:40:27.880
bike routes how we

00:40:27.880 --> 00:40:30.050
generally put them on collector streets and those that are

00:40:30.050 --> 00:40:31.239
less than 40 miles an

00:40:31.239 --> 00:40:33.969
hour but to also consider bike routes on streets that

00:40:33.969 --> 00:40:35.199
parallel major materials

00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:38.030
this is what the map looks like sorry it's a really awful

00:40:38.030 --> 00:40:39.199
looking map nobody

00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:42.889
seemed to have an original digital copy of it so this is a

00:40:42.889 --> 00:40:44.360
scanned image and

00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:49.079
this is what it was it was just a map so this was in 2001

00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:51.199
we did some work to

00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:55.389
implement that but we decided in 2010 about that time we

00:40:55.389 --> 00:40:56.719
needed to update it

00:40:56.719 --> 00:41:02.110
have kind of a little bit more than just a map so they had

00:41:02.110 --> 00:41:04.280
to start it off with

00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:07.570
two public meetings one was in March one was in April you

00:41:07.570 --> 00:41:08.320
might think those

00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:11.139
dates are really far apart from each other but in between

00:41:11.139 --> 00:41:12.440
those they had four

00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:16.420
focus group meetings focus group included local cyclists

00:41:16.420 --> 00:41:18.000
park staff other

00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:19.900
people who are in just I think Commissioner Briegel was

00:41:19.900 --> 00:41:20.400
actually on

00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:24.349
future commissioners you know yeah so those this group of

00:41:24.349 --> 00:41:25.760
people were the core

00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:30.400
group who took feedback and talked with the consultants and

00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:31.840
city staff on what

00:41:31.840 --> 00:41:35.610
to include in the bike plan what routes to choose all those

00:41:35.610 --> 00:41:37.800
things so after we

00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:41.539
had they had those meetings we presented all of it to the

00:41:41.539 --> 00:41:42.840
Commission's you can see

00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:46.619
it came to PNZ three different times two work sessions and

00:41:46.619 --> 00:41:47.840
then the public

00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:52.679
hearing and then finally in February of 2012 it was adopted

00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:54.239
by City Council so

00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:59.019
this is our bike plan it's no more just a map it's actually

00:41:59.019 --> 00:42:00.360
a document now with

00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:04.349
a map that has lots of information and that's what I'm

00:42:04.349 --> 00:42:06.719
gonna go over so the

00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:10.130
plan it does talk about facilities we're gonna have in our

00:42:10.130 --> 00:42:11.480
city so shared routes

00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:16.880
a wide curb lane bike lane a side path it also gives a

00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:20.639
brief it like images

00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:23.300
can't think of the correct word sorry images of what the

00:42:23.300 --> 00:42:24.039
infrastructure would

00:42:24.039 --> 00:42:27.699
look like if you were to implement it on our roadway it

00:42:27.699 --> 00:42:30.280
gives a very simple cost

00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:33.269
estimates we were finding that their cost estimates are

00:42:33.269 --> 00:42:34.320
actually higher than

00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:36.460
what they have in here because the bike plan their

00:42:36.460 --> 00:42:37.760
estimates they provide don't

00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:41.920
include right of way acquisition reconstruction restriping

00:42:41.920 --> 00:42:43.960
or signs and

00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:47.170
signals so it's a very base number that they provide in

00:42:47.170 --> 00:42:48.400
here and we don't really

00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:54.519
use the provided numbers very much also what we got out of

00:42:54.519 --> 00:42:55.800
the plan is when they

00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:58.460
did the public meeting avoided people actually want if you

00:42:58.460 --> 00:42:59.079
had a million

00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:01.070
dollars what would you do with a million dollars and we

00:43:01.070 --> 00:43:02.079
could actually do a whole

00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:05.400
lot with a million dollars for bike and pet projects it's

00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:06.360
only a drop in the

00:43:06.360 --> 00:43:09.090
bucket if you're doing your street you know reconstruction

00:43:09.090 --> 00:43:09.920
but a million can

00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:12.599
get you really far with bike infrastructure and the number

00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:13.039
one thing

00:43:13.039 --> 00:43:17.760
people wanted 31% said they want to designate more lanes on

00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:19.480
streets and so

00:43:19.480 --> 00:43:22.559
that is what we're talking about today is how do we get

00:43:22.559 --> 00:43:23.679
those lanes on the

00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:27.030
street how do we implement what the bike plan has said and

00:43:27.030 --> 00:43:27.800
there's actually two

00:43:27.800 --> 00:43:31.460
paths we can go down there's the city of dentin path where

00:43:31.460 --> 00:43:33.199
they pay for it we pay

00:43:33.199 --> 00:43:37.280
for it or what I call coming soon it's the development that

00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:38.400
's where P&Z comes

00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:43.949
in they do have a development has a small and sometimes

00:43:43.949 --> 00:43:44.800
significant role in

00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:49.760
how we implement the bike plan so the city of dentin path

00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:50.719
there's essentially

00:43:50.719 --> 00:43:54.500
three different ways there's our CIP projects our big bond

00:43:54.500 --> 00:43:55.480
projects like

00:43:55.480 --> 00:44:00.690
bonnie bray mayhill East Hickory those are paid through our

00:44:00.690 --> 00:44:01.840
bond project our

00:44:01.840 --> 00:44:05.530
bond funding which we did a bond election in 2014 and then

00:44:05.530 --> 00:44:06.280
I want to say

00:44:06.280 --> 00:44:11.389
is also in 2011 or 2012 streets and engineering and

00:44:11.389 --> 00:44:12.840
drainage also have other

00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:16.429
projects they're working on Hinkle is a drainage project

00:44:16.429 --> 00:44:17.679
that's underway it's

00:44:17.679 --> 00:44:21.079
not underway it's in design right now we have a bike

00:44:21.079 --> 00:44:22.920
accommodation on that roadway

00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:27.059
so we piggyback on that Montecito was a street

00:44:27.059 --> 00:44:28.639
reconstruction project it was

00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:32.440
also a route on our bike plan and so when they redid it we

00:44:32.440 --> 00:44:33.760
added charrows to

00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:36.840
that road and then Highland was a street reconstruction as

00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:37.800
well as a big street

00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:42.449
project and we came in and also striped as a contraflow

00:44:42.449 --> 00:44:45.119
bike lane and that

00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:47.780
wasn't a complete street project I mean it was a completely

00:44:47.780 --> 00:44:48.599
paid for by streets

00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:52.130
part of that came out the bike fund which the third way we

00:44:52.130 --> 00:44:53.280
implement is the

00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:56.409
bike fund that's dedicated funding each year it's two

00:44:56.409 --> 00:44:58.000
hundred thousand dollars

00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:02.679
and I work with our transportation engineer Noreen house

00:45:02.679 --> 00:45:03.440
right on

00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:06.929
implementing and spending that money so we put charrows on

00:45:06.929 --> 00:45:08.079
Alice this year we

00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:11.519
did Oakland Windsor Drive was also a bike fun project that

00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:12.380
was a road diet we

00:45:12.380 --> 00:45:15.699
went from two lanes each direction to one lane each

00:45:15.699 --> 00:45:16.440
direction with the

00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:21.400
continuous turn lane and then bike lanes on either side so

00:45:21.400 --> 00:45:23.599
you might think great

00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:26.019
we have all these plans to pay for them but how do you

00:45:26.019 --> 00:45:27.199
actually make sure that

00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:31.510
all gets implemented with a bike plan so that's my job bike

00:45:31.510 --> 00:45:32.639
ped coordinator I

00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:35.900
attend lots of meetings to coordinate with people so there

00:45:35.900 --> 00:45:36.719
's a monthly

00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:39.829
utility and CIP coordination meeting that's where all the

00:45:39.829 --> 00:45:40.480
different

00:45:40.480 --> 00:45:43.139
departments who work within our right of way so we have

00:45:43.139 --> 00:45:44.199
water wastewater

00:45:44.199 --> 00:45:48.059
streets our traffic ops people we meet monthly to talk

00:45:48.059 --> 00:45:49.760
about our projects and

00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:54.079
that's actually been very beneficial because previously we

00:45:54.079 --> 00:45:55.239
weren't doing that

00:45:55.239 --> 00:45:57.590
so there were a few projects that this year that had to get

00:45:57.590 --> 00:45:58.400
delayed because we

00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:02.099
weren't aware that there was a utility project going on I

00:46:02.099 --> 00:46:03.679
also meet with our

00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:07.000
transportation engineer every month sometimes it's more

00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:08.039
than that but we do

00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:10.699
meet at least once a month to talk about our upcoming

00:46:10.699 --> 00:46:11.840
projects that we've put on

00:46:11.840 --> 00:46:17.110
our bike fund this is the most common way that our projects

00:46:17.110 --> 00:46:19.199
are funded because

00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:22.739
it's usually big projects or it's our money and we're

00:46:22.739 --> 00:46:24.360
controlling it so much

00:46:24.360 --> 00:46:27.400
simpler for us to do and these are just photos of just in

00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:28.360
case you were curious

00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:31.550
that's Hickory Street our Sharos the middle one is our

00:46:31.550 --> 00:46:32.719
contraflow bike lane

00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:37.250
on Highland and then the end one is Sharos on Old North

00:46:37.250 --> 00:46:39.679
Julie

00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:43.800
Commissioner Bruegel thank you chair so the City Council

00:46:43.800 --> 00:46:45.480
allocates $200,000 a

00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:48.139
year for the bike plan correct I think the overall

00:46:48.139 --> 00:46:50.039
projected cost was like 1.6

00:46:50.039 --> 00:46:52.090
million or something so it's gonna be like over a 10-year

00:46:52.090 --> 00:46:54.000
project 1.6 not for

00:46:54.000 --> 00:47:00.099
the entire plan okay you can maybe 1.5 million could get

00:47:00.099 --> 00:47:01.559
you I think what the

00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:04.989
plan says is you could do 1.5 million for the it's broken

00:47:04.989 --> 00:47:06.280
into immediate short

00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:10.489
range and then long range so yeah so my question is how

00:47:10.489 --> 00:47:11.559
much money has City

00:47:11.559 --> 00:47:15.599
Council set aside to date and how much money has been spent

00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:16.920
from the bike plan

00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:21.239
I have a slide for that oh awesome okay continue thank you

00:47:21.239 --> 00:47:24.679
yes so and this yeah I said this is the most common way

00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:26.159
that we get things paid

00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:31.239
for it because they're large projects that cover a large

00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:33.280
length of roadway

00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:36.320
there's a development path this is where P&Z comes in as

00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:37.920
you know you guys deal

00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:42.449
with new development coming in so I attend our development

00:47:42.449 --> 00:47:43.400
review committee

00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:48.480
each week I also attend some pre development review

00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:49.239
committee meetings

00:47:49.239 --> 00:47:52.900
with engineering and transportation which has been very

00:47:52.900 --> 00:47:54.960
beneficial I work

00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:59.000
with each of the planning and engineering groups within the

00:47:59.000 --> 00:47:59.440
development

00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:03.980
review and then this is also where you notice other items

00:48:03.980 --> 00:48:05.199
like we should

00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:07.929
probably put bike racks in here you know I advocate for

00:48:07.929 --> 00:48:09.079
bike racks whenever I

00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:11.739
tend to meeting oh this development needs to have a bike

00:48:11.739 --> 00:48:12.639
rack and people will

00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:15.420
say oh well who's riding their bike there I don't know

00:48:15.420 --> 00:48:16.280
maybe the employees

00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:19.340
you know employees ride their bikes too so we talk about

00:48:19.340 --> 00:48:20.639
sidewalks and access

00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:24.239
pathways this is where new development pays for the

00:48:24.239 --> 00:48:26.159
improvements so that's a

00:48:26.159 --> 00:48:29.150
bike rack at Target I imagine we had to ask Target to put

00:48:29.150 --> 00:48:30.239
in bike racks with

00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:33.679
their development it's not required so they generally don't

00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:34.559
just do it on their

00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:37.840
own but bike racks are super cheap when you compare it to

00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:39.000
the cost of a large

00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:42.460
project you can get the simplest one for 200 if you're

00:48:42.460 --> 00:48:43.760
gonna go really fancy

00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:50.480
maybe a thousand dollars so this mixture is a unicorn lake

00:48:55.480 --> 00:49:00.539
correct we just the code I think just recommends it but

00:49:00.539 --> 00:49:02.519
nothing is required

00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:23.559
yeah

00:49:26.280 --> 00:49:30.690
well it's hard to encourage development that's already

00:49:30.690 --> 00:49:33.320
built we can't force

00:49:33.320 --> 00:49:36.949
anybody that's already built but we can ask new development

00:49:36.949 --> 00:49:38.000
to put it in or we

00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:40.090
could actually put in our code where it was a requirement

00:49:40.090 --> 00:49:40.599
and I've had

00:49:40.599 --> 00:49:44.320
preliminary discussions with the planning department about

00:49:44.320 --> 00:49:45.079
making that

00:49:45.079 --> 00:49:50.289
happen Commissioner Dudowitz one suggestion to piggyback on

00:49:50.289 --> 00:49:51.239
that is had

00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:53.900
the city pay for it and asked the owner of that property if

00:49:53.900 --> 00:49:54.719
you wouldn't mind

00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:58.469
that putting it in that would might solve that problem

00:49:58.469 --> 00:49:59.119
because if somebody

00:49:59.119 --> 00:50:01.780
came to my property and said hey we're willing to do this

00:50:01.780 --> 00:50:02.880
okay why not right

00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:06.239
we and we've discussed that as well too do we have a

00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:07.920
program of repurchase bike

00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:11.139
racks and we offer them to the public there's been some

00:50:11.139 --> 00:50:12.639
legal questions but I

00:50:12.639 --> 00:50:14.639
mean that's definitely an option that we've talked about

00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:16.360
what's the legal do

00:50:16.360 --> 00:50:24.400
we own it do we do we install it yeah yeah nothing it's not

00:50:24.400 --> 00:50:24.639
an option

00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:27.679
and we've definitely discussed it yeah I'm just making sure

00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:28.679
that you know Larry

00:50:28.679 --> 00:50:31.110
there is some options out there that you know may not be a

00:50:31.110 --> 00:50:32.119
big issue other than

00:50:32.119 --> 00:50:38.159
going that direction Commissioner Roselle speaking back on

00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:38.760
both you

00:50:38.760 --> 00:50:42.110
because you know it's your property owner what what would

00:50:42.110 --> 00:50:43.079
the city be able

00:50:43.079 --> 00:50:45.500
to do to encourage you to incur that cost to put it in

00:50:45.500 --> 00:50:49.239
nothing okay thank you

00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:53.380
I'm serious I mean that we have cars come up to my facility

00:50:53.380 --> 00:50:54.760
mission that was bicycle

00:50:54.760 --> 00:50:58.739
we now we have employees that do ride bicycles and there's

00:50:58.739 --> 00:51:00.039
a there's a way for

00:51:00.039 --> 00:51:02.889
them to secure their bicycles and we make sure of that but

00:51:02.889 --> 00:51:03.699
it's not a for the

00:51:03.699 --> 00:51:06.849
public because the public is not coming to my facility and

00:51:06.849 --> 00:51:07.800
bicycles to get

00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:09.929
service they're coming with their cars I'm sorry but but I

00:51:09.929 --> 00:51:10.639
'm you know I'm be

00:51:10.639 --> 00:51:15.960
honest with you yeah what's your business we service motor

00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:17.159
vehicles

00:51:17.159 --> 00:51:23.380
trucks light trucks heavy-duty trucks yeah I just want to

00:51:23.380 --> 00:51:24.880
give you opportunity

00:51:24.880 --> 00:51:29.199
Commissioner Briegel if I can just chime in real quick

00:51:29.199 --> 00:51:31.280
Commissioner Beck over the

00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:34.469
summer I met with them a group of cyclists and they had

00:51:34.469 --> 00:51:35.480
mentioned this

00:51:35.480 --> 00:51:37.900
they're like well why don't we require that in the in the

00:51:37.900 --> 00:51:39.000
parking requirements

00:51:39.000 --> 00:51:41.719
I'm like that's a good idea and so ever since then whenever

00:51:41.719 --> 00:51:42.239
we see the

00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:44.199
Commission has seen whenever we see a new development I'm

00:51:44.199 --> 00:51:44.880
like hey we're the

00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:47.789
bike racks now like oh yeah we can do that so you know I'm

00:51:47.789 --> 00:51:48.719
just good we can

00:51:48.719 --> 00:51:51.690
just keep bringing it up and we can't require it but they

00:51:51.690 --> 00:51:52.519
that they seem

00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:56.480
perfectly amenable in those cases to add them and you may

00:51:56.480 --> 00:51:57.280
notice even on some

00:51:57.280 --> 00:51:59.380
plats and site plans and stuff or not class but some of the

00:51:59.380 --> 00:52:00.119
site plans we're

00:52:00.119 --> 00:52:01.840
starting to see not only bike racks but like they're

00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:02.880
pointing about hey here's a

00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:05.960
bike rack so I think we can stay on top of it and I'm it's

00:52:05.960 --> 00:52:06.679
nice to know that

00:52:06.679 --> 00:52:09.449
you're in conversation with you know that this might be

00:52:09.449 --> 00:52:10.539
something as we when

00:52:10.539 --> 00:52:15.639
we relook at our parking requirements as a city that that

00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:16.440
could be something at

00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:19.480
that point that possibly could be written into the code I

00:52:19.480 --> 00:52:20.599
want to chime in

00:52:20.599 --> 00:52:23.019
on that I know we've had some discussions before when

00:52:23.019 --> 00:52:23.920
projects come and

00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:27.239
ask about bike racks I think if it's not a part of our code

00:52:27.239 --> 00:52:28.119
I don't know that

00:52:28.119 --> 00:52:31.360
it's correct for us commissioners when we're getting ready

00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:32.280
to take a vote to

00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:34.980
ask them they want to put one of those in there I think it

00:52:34.980 --> 00:52:36.039
's voluntary if they

00:52:36.039 --> 00:52:38.059
feel like it's okay to do that with their business they

00:52:38.059 --> 00:52:38.960
should do it I don't

00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:42.369
think it's appropriate for us or at least for me to say you

00:52:42.369 --> 00:52:43.440
know I'd like to

00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:47.000
see you put a bike rack in there right before take a vote

00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:47.920
and I certainly and I

00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:50.679
certainly hope that my language in the past has not made it

00:52:50.679 --> 00:52:51.440
seem like I'm

00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:54.099
twisting their arm to put that in there but I do think

00:52:54.099 --> 00:52:54.900
sometimes it is an

00:52:54.900 --> 00:52:58.329
oversight that people just if just remind them you know hey

00:52:58.329 --> 00:52:58.840
this is a

00:52:58.840 --> 00:53:02.030
multifamily complex not everyone's gonna have a car sure so

00:53:02.030 --> 00:53:03.179
I think it's worth

00:53:03.179 --> 00:53:06.500
mentioning Commissioner Taylor what's next thank you chair

00:53:06.500 --> 00:53:08.360
I do believe that

00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:13.920
this Commission has the power to recommend changes to the D

00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:14.719
DC so it might

00:53:14.719 --> 00:53:19.480
be appropriate especially in high density and mixed use

00:53:19.480 --> 00:53:20.920
zoning categories

00:53:20.920 --> 00:53:24.579
that are designed for downtown and urban type areas to

00:53:24.579 --> 00:53:26.119
begin requiring some

00:53:26.119 --> 00:53:32.610
basic you know bike parking standard or perhaps in the case

00:53:32.610 --> 00:53:34.960
of multifamily you

00:53:34.960 --> 00:53:40.510
might get pushback trying to require it just everywhere but

00:53:40.510 --> 00:53:41.760
I think that could

00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:45.360
be something that we can look at is I don't do we we have a

00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:47.000
process where once

00:53:47.000 --> 00:53:53.170
per year we recommend changes don't we I'm going to I'm not

00:53:53.170 --> 00:53:54.760
aware of that once

00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:57.440
per year requirement but shoot the Commission is more than

00:53:57.440 --> 00:53:58.000
welcome to

00:53:58.000 --> 00:54:02.199
initiate this and ask staff to come forward with a DDC

00:54:02.199 --> 00:54:03.760
amendment draft to

00:54:03.760 --> 00:54:06.420
discuss in a workshop session and then proceed on from

00:54:06.420 --> 00:54:09.599
there to public hearing

00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:13.739
Commissioner Dudowitz thank you on that issue is it

00:54:13.739 --> 00:54:15.239
appropriate for staffed in

00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:18.820
working with developers and mixed use and other retail

00:54:18.820 --> 00:54:20.400
projects to recommend

00:54:20.400 --> 00:54:23.199
in the development stage or in the discussion or the

00:54:23.199 --> 00:54:24.440
consultant stage to

00:54:24.440 --> 00:54:29.539
say excuse me but the PZ Commission would encourage would

00:54:29.539 --> 00:54:30.719
like you encourage

00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:34.440
bicycle racks were appropriate and considerate and as miss

00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:35.119
Briegel brought

00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:38.110
up it's we've seen it and more and more projects coming

00:54:38.110 --> 00:54:39.440
forward so I'm assuming

00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:43.469
someone's making that observation and suggestion and I know

00:54:43.469 --> 00:54:44.239
that in one

00:54:44.239 --> 00:54:47.139
particular project I met with a developer and suggested it

00:54:47.139 --> 00:54:47.800
ahead of time

00:54:47.800 --> 00:54:52.199
so they wouldn't be caught on it in another appropriate

00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:53.119
inappropriate

00:54:53.119 --> 00:54:55.920
situation Commissioner Dudowitz I'm really happy you

00:54:55.920 --> 00:54:56.599
brought that up because

00:54:56.599 --> 00:55:01.159
we do encourage development proposals that come in and

00:55:01.159 --> 00:55:02.599
encourage them to

00:55:02.599 --> 00:55:07.750
provide these facilities and we have also mentioned that it

00:55:07.750 --> 00:55:09.079
is a recommended

00:55:09.079 --> 00:55:12.199
from the PNC that this they would favor that not that their

00:55:12.199 --> 00:55:12.920
recommendation would

00:55:12.920 --> 00:55:15.380
change but it is something they would never do it however

00:55:15.380 --> 00:55:16.199
if we also look at

00:55:16.199 --> 00:55:18.860
the zoning and try and encourage it to looking at is this a

00:55:18.860 --> 00:55:19.320
multifamily

00:55:19.320 --> 00:55:21.670
development complex and it does warrant that so we

00:55:21.670 --> 00:55:22.840
encourage that those be

00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:25.519
installed early on and so that it doesn't come in as a

00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:26.760
recommendation type

00:55:26.760 --> 00:55:30.719
component as they move forward but try and get it in on the

00:55:30.719 --> 00:55:32.440
onset unless that

00:55:32.440 --> 00:55:36.760
Commissioner back the chair do we spend or can we spend

00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:37.960
some of that money we

00:55:37.960 --> 00:55:41.500
have there to educate these businesses like that say we go

00:55:41.500 --> 00:55:42.639
to these businesses

00:55:42.639 --> 00:55:46.360
where there's no bike red you know I'm opposed to you know

00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:47.440
imposing our will on

00:55:47.440 --> 00:55:51.690
to but you've got a lot of useful information here I think

00:55:51.690 --> 00:55:52.800
it's part of our

00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:59.909
didn't plan 2032 progresses long and just make them

00:55:59.909 --> 00:56:01.320
business owners aware that

00:56:01.320 --> 00:56:05.179
this kind of travel is expanding and how beneficial it

00:56:05.179 --> 00:56:06.519
would be to their business

00:56:06.519 --> 00:56:11.639
so can we spend some of that money on educating the

00:56:11.639 --> 00:56:12.840
businesses I'm sorry what

00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:16.519
what money the 200,000 part of that no the 200,000 is just

00:56:16.519 --> 00:56:17.400
for infrastructure

00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:21.800
I do have a separate money I have $20,000 for the bike head

00:56:21.800 --> 00:56:22.559
program to do

00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:26.920
safety education outreach and that could be something I use

00:56:26.920 --> 00:56:29.320
it towards as of yet

00:56:29.320 --> 00:56:35.920
no yes I would I have provided to the Planning Department a

00:56:35.920 --> 00:56:37.159
guideline of bike

00:56:37.159 --> 00:56:41.550
racks to them so that when they do tell a developer we want

00:56:41.550 --> 00:56:42.159
we think you should

00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:44.659
provide a bike rack they have standards and some guides

00:56:44.659 --> 00:56:45.840
that they can look at so

00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:49.989
it's not just the wave rack honestly the wave rack is not

00:56:49.989 --> 00:56:51.360
the best rack so we're

00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:54.909
trying to get away from using the wave rack also lots of

00:56:54.909 --> 00:56:57.880
other cities have bike

00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:00.739
parking requirements we would not be the only one you can

00:57:00.739 --> 00:57:02.039
do it either just a

00:57:02.039 --> 00:57:05.659
blanket statement all development that's not industrial has

00:57:05.659 --> 00:57:06.559
to have or single

00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:11.519
family has to have five percent or you can do it by zoning

00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:13.000
so only certain

00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:15.659
classification to it there's also different ways you can do

00:57:15.659 --> 00:57:17.039
it but again

00:57:17.039 --> 00:57:20.010
we're not the only city to do it so it's definitely a good

00:57:20.010 --> 00:57:21.239
thing to do also if

00:57:21.239 --> 00:57:24.289
we're making this try to be a bike friendly city having

00:57:24.289 --> 00:57:25.360
bike parking is a

00:57:25.360 --> 00:57:28.840
big part of making you want to ride your bike if you ride

00:57:28.840 --> 00:57:29.599
your bike somewhere and

00:57:29.599 --> 00:57:31.960
you can't park it there you're not going to want to ride it

00:57:31.960 --> 00:57:33.159
it legitimizes that

00:57:33.159 --> 00:57:36.130
your form of transportation is by providing you a place to

00:57:36.130 --> 00:57:37.480
park it that's

00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:42.119
not to a sign post or railing

00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:48.809
okay so we have these different ways that we do but we also

00:57:48.809 --> 00:57:50.159
know okay we're

00:57:50.159 --> 00:57:52.820
having these meetings to plan for bikes and peds how do we

00:57:52.820 --> 00:57:54.199
actually do that well

00:57:54.199 --> 00:57:57.340
we have design manuals and we have guidance so we have our

00:57:57.340 --> 00:57:57.880
denton

00:57:57.880 --> 00:57:59.929
development code which are probably all familiar with

00:57:59.929 --> 00:58:01.039
chapter 20 is the one that

00:58:01.039 --> 00:58:04.099
talks about transportation and it does have three different

00:58:04.099 --> 00:58:05.039
facilities that it

00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:07.840
talks about sidewalks which are required on all

00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:09.280
neighborhood and arterial streets

00:58:09.280 --> 00:58:12.809
an on-road bicycle path which we would consider a bike lane

00:58:12.809 --> 00:58:14.360
or a share own these

00:58:14.360 --> 00:58:17.619
are required on arterials and in accordance with the bike

00:58:17.619 --> 00:58:19.199
ped plan and an

00:58:19.199 --> 00:58:23.619
off-road combo bike ped path that's required on collectors

00:58:23.619 --> 00:58:24.559
freeways and in

00:58:24.559 --> 00:58:27.989
accordance with our bike ped plan so currently we build

00:58:27.989 --> 00:58:29.360
eight foot sidewalks

00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:35.280
on all of our collector streets eight foot's really good

00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:36.920
for pedestrians but I

00:58:36.920 --> 00:58:40.869
wouldn't quite consider eight foot sidewalk a bicycle

00:58:40.869 --> 00:58:43.159
accommodation it can

00:58:43.159 --> 00:58:49.199
be useful in some instances so all of these if so the sorry

00:58:49.199 --> 00:58:50.239
the development

00:58:50.239 --> 00:58:54.119
code classifies what our streets are and sort of defines

00:58:54.119 --> 00:58:55.599
them but they all need

00:58:55.599 --> 00:58:59.230
to be in accordance with our transportation criteria manual

00:58:59.230 --> 00:58:59.800
which as

00:58:59.800 --> 00:59:05.050
you can see was last updated in July of 2013 so section 2

00:59:05.050 --> 00:59:06.400
talks about pedestrian

00:59:06.400 --> 00:59:09.750
bicycle facility design that's where it says bicycle

00:59:09.750 --> 00:59:12.239
parking is recommended and

00:59:12.239 --> 00:59:16.230
then it says that all the alignments can be found in the

00:59:16.230 --> 00:59:17.840
appendix a of cross

00:59:17.840 --> 00:59:22.559
sections so the code defines it and then the criteria

00:59:22.559 --> 00:59:23.840
manual actually gives you

00:59:23.840 --> 00:59:28.639
that what the cross-section is we have the denton the

00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:30.079
downtown development

00:59:30.079 --> 00:59:33.860
into implementation plan the D tip they have cross sections

00:59:33.860 --> 00:59:34.760
in there for the

00:59:34.760 --> 00:59:37.420
downtown section and that actually was included in this

00:59:37.420 --> 00:59:38.480
update to the criteria

00:59:38.480 --> 00:59:41.829
manual so the downtown streets that are in the D tip do

00:59:41.829 --> 00:59:43.639
have cross sections for

00:59:43.639 --> 00:59:48.480
bike accommodations I could not find our cross sections for

00:59:48.480 --> 00:59:51.320
streets online I

00:59:51.320 --> 00:59:53.980
wasn't able to get my hands on to them before this meeting

00:59:53.980 --> 00:59:55.039
but our bike plan

00:59:55.039 --> 00:59:58.690
does have some of them in the back so you can see up top is

00:59:58.690 --> 00:59:59.599
the current

00:59:59.599 --> 01:00:04.280
accommodation what you would do for a mixed-use collector

01:00:04.280 --> 01:00:05.119
Street essentially

01:00:05.119 --> 01:00:09.070
it's just a wide outside lane or you could have the side

01:00:09.070 --> 01:00:10.519
path on either side

01:00:10.519 --> 01:00:14.639
but the bike plans suggest different alternatives we can

01:00:14.639 --> 01:00:16.039
add a share you can

01:00:16.039 --> 01:00:19.510
add bike lanes you can add the wide curb lane which I would

01:00:19.510 --> 01:00:21.380
recommend we I would

01:00:21.380 --> 01:00:26.000
hardly ever recommend to do just a wide outside lane it

01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:27.599
also has cross sections

01:00:27.599 --> 01:00:31.769
for Julie yes I know we've got two other items to go before

01:00:31.769 --> 01:00:32.840
630 I'm told we've

01:00:32.840 --> 01:00:35.699
got to cover at least one of them do you know how many more

01:00:35.699 --> 01:00:37.199
and we may just have

01:00:37.199 --> 01:00:40.809
to stop at 630 we may have to come back after P&Z to do

01:00:40.809 --> 01:00:42.400
these other two yeah I

01:00:42.400 --> 01:00:47.360
think I'm almost done with that's what we would prefer

01:00:47.360 --> 01:00:48.719
design manuals yeah I

01:00:48.719 --> 01:00:50.929
can go through these real quick and we can stop if you want

01:00:50.929 --> 01:00:51.699
when we get to bike

01:00:51.699 --> 01:00:55.820
counts because that is kind of a separate topic okay we

01:00:55.820 --> 01:00:56.880
have various

01:00:56.880 --> 01:01:01.280
design manuals that we use to implement it we have our asht

01:01:01.280 --> 01:01:02.760
ow guide the urban

01:01:02.760 --> 01:01:06.389
bikeway design guide this is not adopted this is for sort

01:01:06.389 --> 01:01:07.440
of urban streets as

01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:12.739
opposed to large highways text I also had memorandum back

01:01:12.739 --> 01:01:14.599
in 2011 that all

01:01:14.599 --> 01:01:18.050
text our roads will accommodate peds and bikes there's

01:01:18.050 --> 01:01:20.920
different levels of what

01:01:20.920 --> 01:01:22.880
they do based on if they're reconstructing it or just

01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:23.360
working within

01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:26.019
the present right of way and that's my question sorry I

01:01:26.019 --> 01:01:27.039
know that we're short

01:01:27.039 --> 01:01:31.239
on time Commissioner Bribble thank you chair so we I know

01:01:31.239 --> 01:01:33.119
in our debt in 2030

01:01:33.119 --> 01:01:37.519
plan we had emphasized designing our roads as per NACTO

01:01:37.519 --> 01:01:38.199
standards which have

01:01:38.199 --> 01:01:41.170
a more of a complete streets design right than ashtow so I

01:01:41.170 --> 01:01:42.280
'm curious and I

01:01:42.280 --> 01:01:46.690
know our our bike plan was written with ashtow standards in

01:01:46.690 --> 01:01:47.719
mind and I assume

01:01:47.719 --> 01:01:51.469
that our transportation manual guidelines are also I'm

01:01:51.469 --> 01:01:52.519
assuming I wasn't

01:01:52.519 --> 01:01:58.070
here in 2013 so I'm just wondering is I guess maybe this

01:01:58.070 --> 01:01:59.239
would be a question for

01:01:59.239 --> 01:02:01.519
a different work session but as we're and I'm trying to

01:02:01.519 --> 01:02:02.480
keep this as brief as

01:02:02.480 --> 01:02:05.309
possible because I know we're short on time how are we

01:02:05.309 --> 01:02:07.440
implementing our vision

01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:11.760
for NACTO designed roads if if all of our old documents

01:02:11.760 --> 01:02:12.800
have ashtow

01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:17.099
requirements so ash toe is the standard that's what we've

01:02:17.099 --> 01:02:18.440
adopted it has been

01:02:18.440 --> 01:02:22.599
updated in 2012 so our bike plan is not current with what

01:02:22.599 --> 01:02:24.199
the most current ashtow

01:02:24.199 --> 01:02:29.219
is NACTO is more of a guideline as opposed to they're a

01:02:29.219 --> 01:02:29.719
little bit

01:02:29.719 --> 01:02:35.019
different this we can adopt it some cities have adopted it

01:02:35.019 --> 01:02:35.659
as a design

01:02:35.659 --> 01:02:39.920
manual I know that when I go to meetings when I'm

01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:41.059
advocating for our bike

01:02:41.059 --> 01:02:44.239
infrastructure I definitely reference NACTO our

01:02:44.239 --> 01:02:45.639
transportation engineer Noreen

01:02:45.639 --> 01:02:49.239
is aware of it so it's really just having the conversation

01:02:49.239 --> 01:02:51.679
at the stage of

01:02:51.679 --> 01:02:53.940
where we have the conversation and we're at the very

01:02:53.940 --> 01:02:56.599
beginning is this and is that

01:02:56.599 --> 01:02:59.260
I mean is that working so far do we have do you think we

01:02:59.260 --> 01:03:00.039
might have to update

01:03:00.039 --> 01:03:05.929
our it's working there are some things that I haven't been

01:03:05.929 --> 01:03:07.159
able to get because

01:03:07.159 --> 01:03:09.440
it's not in our design manual right so that might be

01:03:09.440 --> 01:03:10.519
something that the PNC

01:03:10.519 --> 01:03:13.840
Commission might have to push forward if it's in our 2030

01:03:13.840 --> 01:03:14.840
plan but it's not in

01:03:14.840 --> 01:03:18.789
any of our I guess design criteria manuals right there's a

01:03:18.789 --> 01:03:19.119
disconnect it

01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:22.760
does get a little difficult to implement with other

01:03:22.760 --> 01:03:24.599
departments occasionally when

01:03:24.599 --> 01:03:29.300
well it's not our design manual okay it's a goal but it's

01:03:29.300 --> 01:03:29.440
not required okay

01:03:29.440 --> 01:03:32.079
thank you Commissioner Taylor was first thank you

01:03:32.079 --> 01:03:37.320
chair to follow up on on those that line of questions you

01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:38.360
stated that the

01:03:38.360 --> 01:03:43.920
transportation criteria manual was updated in 2013 but yeah

01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:45.079
but none of the

01:03:45.079 --> 01:03:50.519
none of the non downtown implementation plan streets street

01:03:50.519 --> 01:03:51.320
profiles were

01:03:51.320 --> 01:03:55.460
updated so our current transportation manual does not

01:03:55.460 --> 01:03:57.440
indicate bike lanes on

01:03:57.440 --> 01:04:00.409
arterials for example I do not think it does I couldn't

01:04:00.409 --> 01:04:02.000
find them and I get it

01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:06.139
back in time yeah and so but our ordinance requires it does

01:04:06.139 --> 01:04:07.199
does didn't

01:04:07.199 --> 01:04:10.650
development code trump the transportation criteria manual

01:04:10.650 --> 01:04:11.079
or do our

01:04:11.079 --> 01:04:14.510
streets get built to a criteria manual as opposed to our

01:04:14.510 --> 01:04:15.920
ordinance I'm not sure

01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:21.480
which one trumps which code trumps the manual and the code

01:04:21.480 --> 01:04:22.360
does say that we

01:04:22.360 --> 01:04:25.909
have to require bike lane on road bike lanes on arterials

01:04:25.909 --> 01:04:27.679
okay and so whenever

01:04:27.679 --> 01:04:31.940
is what would it take to get our our criteria manual to

01:04:31.940 --> 01:04:33.679
match the ordinance

01:04:33.679 --> 01:04:38.639
that was written in 2001 it would require an update and I'm

01:04:38.639 --> 01:04:39.320
not quite sure

01:04:39.320 --> 01:04:42.840
of that process I imagine it has to go through many

01:04:42.840 --> 01:04:44.480
engineering streets

01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:48.619
drainage all those people I don't know if that's staff

01:04:48.619 --> 01:04:50.000
initiated I imagine it

01:04:50.000 --> 01:04:54.139
is so and it's a large undertaking I imagine so and is

01:04:54.139 --> 01:04:56.039
there any review where

01:04:56.039 --> 01:04:59.389
if a street is designed to the current the criteria manual

01:04:59.389 --> 01:05:00.239
but not to the

01:05:00.239 --> 01:05:05.409
ordinance where it would be reviewed and seen before it's

01:05:05.409 --> 01:05:08.440
built reviewed by staff

01:05:08.440 --> 01:05:11.960
or public reviewed by somebody who would notice that it's

01:05:11.960 --> 01:05:12.840
not built to the

01:05:12.840 --> 01:05:16.800
ordinance staff I feel like staff is fairly confident of

01:05:16.800 --> 01:05:18.119
what the manual say

01:05:18.119 --> 01:05:24.340
and Ron could possibly speak better to it thanks Ron as you

01:05:24.340 --> 01:05:26.719
all know PSR brought

01:05:26.719 --> 01:05:30.429
to you all a process to amend the criteria manuals some

01:05:30.429 --> 01:05:32.360
time ago and it's

01:05:32.360 --> 01:05:36.889
as Julie mentioned a staff-initiated exercise that we can

01:05:36.889 --> 01:05:37.920
do certainly

01:05:37.920 --> 01:05:40.579
something that we are looking at doing is amending the

01:05:40.579 --> 01:05:41.719
criteria manual and we

01:05:41.719 --> 01:05:45.420
are able to do that it does not need necessarily to need to

01:05:45.420 --> 01:05:46.360
go through this

01:05:46.360 --> 01:05:50.159
body or City Council it can be done primarily in-house and

01:05:50.159 --> 01:05:51.440
so that's to

01:05:51.440 --> 01:05:54.159
that's to change the criteria manuals I was specifically

01:05:54.159 --> 01:05:55.199
talking about if there

01:05:55.199 --> 01:06:00.159
is a design that doesn't meet ordinance does it get built

01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:02.079
anyway if it does not

01:06:02.079 --> 01:06:05.280
meet the development code a development code that's correct

01:06:05.280 --> 01:06:07.000
if it meets if it's

01:06:07.000 --> 01:06:10.159
built to the criteria manual which conflicts with debt and

01:06:10.159 --> 01:06:11.360
development code

01:06:11.360 --> 01:06:17.059
right are we building streets that meet the criteria manual

01:06:17.059 --> 01:06:19.159
but are violating the

01:06:19.159 --> 01:06:22.010
debt and development code well well we're certainly gonna

01:06:22.010 --> 01:06:22.559
try to make sure

01:06:22.559 --> 01:06:24.909
that whatever is built meets the development code a

01:06:24.909 --> 01:06:25.800
criterion manual

01:06:25.800 --> 01:06:28.460
should follow and something that we would have to look into

01:06:28.460 --> 01:06:29.360
I can't answer

01:06:29.360 --> 01:06:33.079
that question I'm assuming that if they follow the

01:06:33.079 --> 01:06:34.360
development code and that's

01:06:34.360 --> 01:06:38.309
the that's how they're constructed but again I can't

01:06:38.309 --> 01:06:40.639
confirm or deny thank you

01:06:40.639 --> 01:06:45.199
Commissioner dead always Julie couple questions just for

01:06:45.199 --> 01:06:47.159
clarification are you

01:06:47.159 --> 01:06:52.139
a department or a person or both I guess I'm a department

01:06:52.139 --> 01:06:53.760
slash person I fall

01:06:53.760 --> 01:06:56.800
under the Department of Transportation and I'm the only

01:06:56.800 --> 01:06:58.159
person in the bike

01:06:58.159 --> 01:07:01.130
pedicure report into which group Department of

01:07:01.130 --> 01:07:02.480
Transportation Mark Nelson

01:07:02.480 --> 01:07:07.559
is my boss okay when your group decides to put a bike lane

01:07:07.559 --> 01:07:09.119
in let's say Montecito

01:07:09.119 --> 01:07:16.079
per case or shared lane okay who's who approved that that

01:07:16.079 --> 01:07:18.239
you could do that

01:07:18.239 --> 01:07:21.889
well it's on their bike plan so we're what person or

01:07:21.889 --> 01:07:23.360
department said that's

01:07:23.360 --> 01:07:28.909
okay to put it there are my boss and engineering okay okay

01:07:28.909 --> 01:07:30.079
so all right so

01:07:30.079 --> 01:07:32.739
I'm saying did anybody talk to the residents on that street

01:07:32.739 --> 01:07:33.360
yes they did

01:07:33.360 --> 01:07:36.539
okay so there is some process where we have some citizens

01:07:36.539 --> 01:07:37.679
being having some

01:07:37.679 --> 01:07:40.340
review is saying hey that's a good idea or a bad idea for

01:07:40.340 --> 01:07:41.719
whatever reason yes

01:07:41.719 --> 01:07:46.840
okay okay so just very quickly is an overview of our

01:07:46.840 --> 01:07:48.000
upcoming projects and

01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:51.849
the projects we've done up to date by end of 16 will have

01:07:51.849 --> 01:07:52.960
nine miles of bike

01:07:52.960 --> 01:07:55.380
lanes and 24 miles of shared routes we have upcoming

01:07:55.380 --> 01:07:56.599
projects on Eagle Drive

01:07:56.599 --> 01:08:01.360
Congress Paisley and Parkside and Amherst which you can see

01:08:01.360 --> 01:08:02.639
in orange

01:08:02.639 --> 01:08:06.409
here's just another overview of our projects this year and

01:08:06.409 --> 01:08:07.480
our funding and

01:08:07.480 --> 01:08:12.190
what we estimated our cost to be and then this is how much

01:08:12.190 --> 01:08:13.599
we have spent on

01:08:13.599 --> 01:08:18.149
the bike plan or allocated so just shy of over 1 million

01:08:18.149 --> 01:08:19.600
has been allocated to

01:08:19.600 --> 01:08:25.500
us we've spent our allocated 800,000 and we have 200,000 to

01:08:25.500 --> 01:08:27.199
work with 281,000 to

01:08:27.199 --> 01:08:29.899
work with this year and some of that's already been set

01:08:29.899 --> 01:08:31.039
aside for the Eagle

01:08:31.039 --> 01:08:35.270
Drive project so that's what we have spent the money on I

01:08:35.270 --> 01:08:36.560
think my next slide

01:08:36.560 --> 01:08:43.279
is bike counts yes so Julie could we Julie I think because

01:08:43.279 --> 01:08:43.840
of what I've been

01:08:43.840 --> 01:08:46.189
told we've got a full house out there that we need to start

01:08:46.189 --> 01:08:47.479
right on 630 would

01:08:47.479 --> 01:08:50.189
this be a good place to pause an excellent place to come

01:08:50.189 --> 01:08:51.239
back to us okay

01:08:51.239 --> 01:08:55.529
before we close the work session we have an item it's item

01:08:55.529 --> 01:08:57.039
C in our work session

01:08:57.039 --> 01:09:00.739
it's the DCA 15 and we're going to come back just as

01:09:00.739 --> 01:09:02.319
Commissioner so nobody

01:09:02.319 --> 01:09:05.149
leave after our meeting out in public we're going to come

01:09:05.149 --> 01:09:06.119
back in here to work

01:09:06.119 --> 01:09:09.090
session and reopen work session to hear that item before we

01:09:09.090 --> 01:09:10.000
head out tonight

01:09:10.000 --> 01:09:13.279
so we have to do that when we run along on another other

01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:19.399
thing so and be and but

01:09:19.399 --> 01:09:22.640
due to the time that B is going to take staff has asked

01:09:22.640 --> 01:09:24.079
that we just postpone

01:09:24.079 --> 01:09:26.109
that completely and they come back because that's about

01:09:26.109 --> 01:09:27.079
another 40 minutes

01:09:27.079 --> 01:09:32.229
so sorry guys for showing up tonight I'm sorry we run long

01:09:32.229 --> 01:09:33.079
but thanks for being

01:09:33.079 --> 01:09:37.039
willing to come back so Commissioner have any question

01:09:37.039 --> 01:09:37.520
about our what our

01:09:37.520 --> 01:09:40.220
schedule is going to be for our closed work session and we

01:09:40.220 --> 01:09:41.119
reconvene right at

01:09:41.119 --> 01:09:43.920
630 so Commissioner Dudowitz I'm gonna be

01:09:43.920 --> 01:09:49.939
postponed to another date yes completely okay with that it

01:09:49.939 --> 01:09:52.079
is 621 and we're going

01:09:52.079 --> 01:09:56.800
to close this we're gonna know we're gonna close it or how

01:09:56.800 --> 01:09:57.239
should we do that

01:09:57.239 --> 01:10:02.289
for coming back close it and then reopen another one okay 6

01:10:02.289 --> 01:10:03.239
21 we're going to

01:10:03.239 --> 01:10:08.409
close the work session and we'll reconvene in chambers at 6

01:10:08.409 --> 01:10:14.520
30 good

01:10:14.520 --> 01:10:17.189
evening and welcome to the planning and zoning Commission

01:10:17.189 --> 01:10:19.600
meeting it is 630 and

01:10:19.600 --> 01:10:22.640
our meeting has been duly posted and we have a quorum

01:10:22.640 --> 01:10:24.159
present so I'll call our

01:10:24.159 --> 01:10:27.449
meeting to order and our first order of business is going

01:10:27.449 --> 01:10:28.600
to be to rise and say

01:10:28.600 --> 01:10:33.119
the pledge the US and the Texas flags

01:10:49.600 --> 01:10:55.859
Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state,

01:10:55.859 --> 01:10:59.600
under God, one indivisible.

01:11:08.119 --> 01:11:12.699
The next item on our agenda is going to be the minutes do

01:11:12.699 --> 01:11:16.000
we have a motion?

01:11:19.600 --> 01:11:33.609
Commissioner Bruegel I move approval of the minutes. Is

01:11:33.609 --> 01:11:35.840
there a second? Second.

01:11:35.840 --> 01:11:54.569
Commissioner Taven thank you. Call for a vote on the board.

01:11:54.569 --> 01:11:57.560
Motion carries 6-0

01:11:57.560 --> 01:12:08.390
with one recusal. Next item is our consent agenda. Chair,

01:12:08.390 --> 01:12:12.640
Commissioner Taylor.

01:12:12.640 --> 01:12:16.500
I move approval of our consent agenda. Commissioner Det

01:12:16.500 --> 01:12:17.439
owitz. I second the

01:12:17.439 --> 01:12:29.579
motion. The first and a second I'll call for a vote on the

01:12:29.579 --> 01:12:33.560
board. Motion carries

01:12:33.560 --> 01:12:41.859
7-0. Our next item will be our public hearings. The first

01:12:41.859 --> 01:12:42.760
item we're going to

01:12:42.760 --> 01:12:48.520
have is going to be item Z15-002 and I will open the public

01:12:48.520 --> 01:12:49.439
hearing now and ask

01:12:49.439 --> 01:12:53.579
for from all to call on presentation. Just for the record

01:12:53.579 --> 01:13:00.800
that Z15-0029. Thank you.

01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:03.529
Thank you Chairperson. I'm going to ask Sophie Humer,

01:13:03.529 --> 01:13:04.520
Associate Planner to make

01:13:04.520 --> 01:13:10.069
this presentation. Good evening Commissioners. I'm here

01:13:10.069 --> 01:13:13.239
presenting Z15-0029

01:13:13.239 --> 01:13:17.079
Freistree overlay district amendment. The request before

01:13:17.079 --> 01:13:18.199
you is to hold a public

01:13:18.199 --> 01:13:21.409
hearing and consider making a recommendation to City

01:13:21.409 --> 01:13:22.579
Council regarding

01:13:22.579 --> 01:13:27.359
amending sub chapter 3575 the Freistree overlay district to

01:13:27.359 --> 01:13:27.960
create a new

01:13:27.960 --> 01:13:31.000
sub district and development standards for a mixed-use

01:13:31.000 --> 01:13:32.239
building on approximately

01:13:32.239 --> 01:13:38.380
1.7 acres. Subject property has approximately 220 feet of

01:13:38.380 --> 01:13:38.960
frontage on

01:13:38.960 --> 01:13:42.189
West Oak and approximately 280 feet of frontage on West H

01:13:42.189 --> 01:13:44.119
ickory Street. It's

01:13:44.119 --> 01:13:47.409
also located between Freistree and Avenue B however it does

01:13:47.409 --> 01:13:48.279
not have frontage on

01:13:48.279 --> 01:13:54.859
either of those roads. Subject the proposed sub district is

01:13:54.859 --> 01:13:55.920
also located in

01:13:55.920 --> 01:13:59.069
a downtown commercial general zoning district but it's

01:13:59.069 --> 01:14:00.279
further located within

01:14:00.279 --> 01:14:03.060
the Freistree overlay district. I'll get into those

01:14:03.060 --> 01:14:04.920
regulations later in the

01:14:04.920 --> 01:14:08.090
presentation. It's also important to remember that multif

01:14:08.090 --> 01:14:09.159
amily and retail are

01:14:09.159 --> 01:14:13.390
also permitted by right in the zoning district and in the

01:14:13.390 --> 01:14:16.119
overlay district. So

01:14:16.119 --> 01:14:18.779
the Freistree overlay district was created in 2000 to

01:14:18.779 --> 01:14:19.479
preserve the unique

01:14:19.479 --> 01:14:23.170
history and character of the area. In that sub area the

01:14:23.170 --> 01:14:24.159
building height was

01:14:24.159 --> 01:14:28.000
limited to 45 feet and three stories and the density was

01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:29.520
based on a minimum unit

01:14:29.520 --> 01:14:33.279
size. For example efficiency apartments were limited to

01:14:33.279 --> 01:14:35.079
units that were no less

01:14:35.079 --> 01:14:41.750
than a thousand square feet. In 2010 this Freistree overlay

01:14:41.750 --> 01:14:43.079
district was further

01:14:43.079 --> 01:14:46.520
amended to accommodate a mixed-use development known as sub

01:14:46.520 --> 01:14:48.000
area B. Here the

01:14:48.000 --> 01:14:52.399
height was permitted to be 55 feet no taller than four

01:14:52.399 --> 01:14:54.039
stories and the density

01:14:54.039 --> 01:15:02.279
is at 72.5 units an acre. The amendment before you tonight

01:15:02.279 --> 01:15:03.319
the applicant is

01:15:03.319 --> 01:15:06.000
proposing to further amend the Freistree overlay district

01:15:06.000 --> 01:15:08.199
creating sub area B1 to

01:15:08.199 --> 01:15:11.390
accommodate multifamily and retail. It's the yellow sub

01:15:11.390 --> 01:15:13.000
district located on the

01:15:13.000 --> 01:15:18.119
screen in red. The proposed sub area B1 the permitted

01:15:18.119 --> 01:15:19.239
height would be 58 feet

01:15:19.239 --> 01:15:23.039
capped at five stories and the density here would be 88.2

01:15:23.039 --> 01:15:24.000
units an acre.

01:15:24.000 --> 01:15:29.960
The applicant is also requesting changes to the multifamily

01:15:29.960 --> 01:15:31.359
parking regulations

01:15:31.359 --> 01:15:35.310
in the Freistree overlay district. Sub area A and B for

01:15:35.310 --> 01:15:36.720
multifamily units

01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:42.399
require one space for units with two or more bedrooms. Sub

01:15:42.399 --> 01:15:43.479
area B1 is

01:15:43.479 --> 01:15:46.979
asking for units with two or more bedrooms to require only

01:15:46.979 --> 01:15:49.680
0.75 spaces. No

01:15:49.680 --> 01:15:52.649
other amendments are going to be made to the other parking

01:15:52.649 --> 01:15:53.680
ratios within that

01:15:53.680 --> 01:15:59.229
district. This is just a summary of the changes and as you

01:15:59.229 --> 01:16:00.159
move through your

01:16:00.159 --> 01:16:05.539
discussion we can refer back to this slide. I want to talk

01:16:05.539 --> 01:16:07.279
a little bit about

01:16:07.279 --> 01:16:09.939
the neighborhood university compatibility future land use

01:16:09.939 --> 01:16:10.600
designation

01:16:10.600 --> 01:16:16.250
and its importance to this area. Debt and Plan 2030 calls

01:16:16.250 --> 01:16:17.520
out some very specific

01:16:17.520 --> 01:16:21.239
goals for this area. The neighborhood university

01:16:21.239 --> 01:16:22.439
compatibility area should

01:16:22.439 --> 01:16:27.399
provide a gradual transition and scale using character as

01:16:27.399 --> 01:16:29.000
well as intensity

01:16:29.000 --> 01:16:32.390
between the universities and the surrounding neighborhoods.

01:16:32.390 --> 01:16:33.399
Development

01:16:33.399 --> 01:16:36.060
should encourage uses that are in close proximity to one

01:16:36.060 --> 01:16:37.199
another and encourage

01:16:37.199 --> 01:16:41.479
walking and biking. Character of the area should be

01:16:41.479 --> 01:16:43.920
maintained by ensuring that

01:16:43.920 --> 01:16:47.130
any new development is sensitive to the surrounding built

01:16:47.130 --> 01:16:48.640
and natural environment

01:16:48.640 --> 01:16:54.489
in context of scale and form. And development should also

01:16:54.489 --> 01:16:55.119
adequately

01:16:55.119 --> 01:16:58.159
address parking needs and mitigate impact to adjacent

01:16:58.159 --> 01:17:01.199
neighborhoods. So the

01:17:01.199 --> 01:17:03.619
purpose of the original Freistree overlay district was to

01:17:03.619 --> 01:17:04.199
maintain the

01:17:04.199 --> 01:17:07.170
character of the area. The proposed amendment would allow

01:17:07.170 --> 01:17:07.960
for the highest

01:17:07.960 --> 01:17:10.659
density in the area and while that use is permitted the

01:17:10.659 --> 01:17:11.840
original intent of the

01:17:11.840 --> 01:17:14.500
overlay was to have cohesive development and maintain

01:17:14.500 --> 01:17:17.560
character of the area.

01:17:19.520 --> 01:17:22.180
With a consideration for the parking requirement the

01:17:22.180 --> 01:17:23.720
deficit between the

01:17:23.720 --> 01:17:26.909
required parking per the overlay district as it's currently

01:17:26.909 --> 01:17:27.600
written and

01:17:27.600 --> 01:17:31.539
then the proposed amendment to the overlay district there's

01:17:31.539 --> 01:17:32.359
a deficit of

01:17:32.359 --> 01:17:36.890
110 spaces. Reductions in the requirement to parking on a

01:17:36.890 --> 01:17:38.399
site-by-site basis is

01:17:38.399 --> 01:17:41.449
not a comprehensive approach to analyzing the impact of

01:17:41.449 --> 01:17:42.960
parking reductions on the

01:17:42.960 --> 01:17:49.199
greater Freistree area. These are two considerations from

01:17:49.199 --> 01:17:50.079
other departments on

01:17:50.079 --> 01:17:54.319
the project. The scoping for the traffic impact analysis

01:17:54.319 --> 01:17:55.239
has been initiated

01:17:55.239 --> 01:17:58.470
however a formal traffic impact analysis has not been

01:17:58.470 --> 01:18:01.119
submitted for review. Also

01:18:01.119 --> 01:18:04.090
from the fire department the applicant has not been able to

01:18:04.090 --> 01:18:05.000
verify on the site

01:18:05.000 --> 01:18:09.250
plans provided in your backup the aerial apparatus access

01:18:09.250 --> 01:18:11.880
to the building.

01:18:13.159 --> 01:18:15.819
So while the development does increase the stock of student

01:18:15.819 --> 01:18:17.119
housing which is an

01:18:17.119 --> 01:18:20.399
important goal in the debt and plan 2030 the proposed

01:18:20.399 --> 01:18:21.880
amendment and associated

01:18:21.880 --> 01:18:24.539
development conditions are not consistent with the debt and

01:18:24.539 --> 01:18:25.439
plan 2030 in

01:18:25.439 --> 01:18:28.539
some other ways. First it doesn't adequately address the

01:18:28.539 --> 01:18:29.479
parking needs of

01:18:29.479 --> 01:18:33.239
the project and it does not mitigate spillover into the

01:18:33.239 --> 01:18:36.590
surrounding neighborhood. The potential impact on the

01:18:36.590 --> 01:18:38.399
surrounding infrastructure

01:18:38.399 --> 01:18:43.789
particularly to the sewer and inconsistency in urban form

01:18:43.789 --> 01:18:44.720
and scale.

01:18:44.720 --> 01:18:47.909
Staff has concerns about these continuous amendments to the

01:18:47.909 --> 01:18:48.520
Freistree

01:18:48.520 --> 01:18:51.430
overlay district standards without fully understanding the

01:18:51.430 --> 01:18:52.439
impact of these higher

01:18:52.439 --> 01:18:55.510
density and intensity projects on infrastructure the

01:18:55.510 --> 01:18:56.680
transportation and

01:18:56.680 --> 01:19:01.649
parking network and neighborhood compatibility. And just as

01:19:01.649 --> 01:19:02.520
an aside note

01:19:02.520 --> 01:19:06.659
we know the planning department understands that these are

01:19:06.659 --> 01:19:07.520
hurdles for

01:19:07.520 --> 01:19:12.079
the development community and a Freistree small area plan

01:19:12.079 --> 01:19:13.359
the work draft

01:19:13.359 --> 01:19:16.800
plan was presented to City Council yesterday during work

01:19:16.800 --> 01:19:18.199
session. Small area

01:19:18.199 --> 01:19:21.050
plans allow for the planning department to go back with

01:19:21.050 --> 01:19:22.279
other departments and

01:19:22.279 --> 01:19:26.069
look at this area at a more macro level to understand what

01:19:26.069 --> 01:19:27.439
the community vision

01:19:27.439 --> 01:19:32.409
is and also what the debt and plan 2030s vision is. Two

01:19:32.409 --> 01:19:34.279
neighborhood meetings were

01:19:34.279 --> 01:19:38.539
held the neighborhood expressed a level of comfort with sub

01:19:38.539 --> 01:19:39.840
area A of the Freistree

01:19:39.840 --> 01:19:42.569
overlay district is written but concerns were raised by

01:19:42.569 --> 01:19:44.199
attendance of the meetings

01:19:44.199 --> 01:19:47.840
those included increased traffic along Oak and Hickory

01:19:47.840 --> 01:19:49.359
increased parking in

01:19:49.359 --> 01:19:52.239
Semigul family neighborhoods adjacent to the project and

01:19:52.239 --> 01:19:53.399
lack of a shade study

01:19:53.399 --> 01:20:00.960
for height of the building. Per section 3573 of the Denton

01:20:00.960 --> 01:20:01.600
development code

01:20:01.600 --> 01:20:04.640
special purpose overlay districts are established to

01:20:04.640 --> 01:20:05.800
protect and enhance

01:20:05.800 --> 01:20:09.939
specific lands which just by the virtue of their type and

01:20:09.939 --> 01:20:10.920
location have

01:20:10.920 --> 01:20:13.270
characteristics which are distinct from lands and

01:20:13.270 --> 01:20:14.560
structures outside of such

01:20:14.560 --> 01:20:18.699
special districts. Changes to the overlay district must

01:20:18.699 --> 01:20:20.479
enhance or conform to the

01:20:20.479 --> 01:20:25.010
purpose of the overlay districts goals and objectives and

01:20:25.010 --> 01:20:26.199
the current the

01:20:26.199 --> 01:20:32.020
proposed amendments as submitted are a continuous amendment

01:20:32.020 --> 01:20:33.079
to the Freistree

01:20:33.079 --> 01:20:36.460
overlay district and they are a comprehensive analysis of

01:20:36.460 --> 01:20:37.279
their impact

01:20:37.279 --> 01:20:42.960
to the adjacent neighborhoods. Public notifications were

01:20:42.960 --> 01:20:44.279
sent out on January

01:20:44.279 --> 01:20:50.640
13th 2016 27 were sent within 200 feet 71 within 500 feet

01:20:50.640 --> 01:20:52.880
and we have not had

01:20:52.880 --> 01:20:59.789
any 200 foot response returned. Staff recommends denial of

01:20:59.789 --> 01:21:02.039
Z 1529 based on the

01:21:02.039 --> 01:21:06.000
considerations presented as requested the amendment further

01:21:06.000 --> 01:21:06.960
compromises the

01:21:06.960 --> 01:21:11.260
Freistree overlay district standards and I will stand for

01:21:11.260 --> 01:21:12.439
any questions.

01:21:12.439 --> 01:21:18.079
Commissioner Taylor. Thank you chair. I was just trying to

01:21:18.079 --> 01:21:18.760
understand some

01:21:18.760 --> 01:21:25.390
some procedural options here. If if there were a project to

01:21:25.390 --> 01:21:27.520
come forward in an

01:21:27.520 --> 01:21:32.210
overlay district and they wanted a variance on just just on

01:21:32.210 --> 01:21:33.039
number of

01:21:33.039 --> 01:21:36.840
parking lots or parking spaces in their parking lot do

01:21:36.840 --> 01:21:38.000
would they have to amend

01:21:38.000 --> 01:21:42.579
the overlay or could they come in for like a variance or an

01:21:42.579 --> 01:21:43.840
ADP is there is

01:21:43.840 --> 01:21:48.119
there any other process that they can use other than am

01:21:48.119 --> 01:21:50.680
ending the overlay? Less

01:21:50.680 --> 01:21:56.899
spots would be through the variance procedure I believe. So

01:21:56.899 --> 01:21:58.279
if this just to

01:21:58.279 --> 01:22:01.960
clarify if the overlay district standards specify a parking

01:22:01.960 --> 01:22:02.720
ratio and

01:22:02.720 --> 01:22:07.470
there is a the African is if it says you must have a

01:22:07.470 --> 01:22:10.039
minimum of X spaces or you

01:22:10.039 --> 01:22:13.359
must have no more than so many spaces where that ratio is

01:22:13.359 --> 01:22:14.640
specified and that

01:22:14.640 --> 01:22:16.939
ratio is being changed then it would warrant an amendment

01:22:16.939 --> 01:22:17.600
to the overlay

01:22:17.600 --> 01:22:21.180
district because that specification is in the overlay

01:22:21.180 --> 01:22:22.720
district. And there's no so

01:22:22.720 --> 01:22:25.220
a variance is not an option and ADP is not an option there

01:22:25.220 --> 01:22:26.119
's no other option

01:22:26.119 --> 01:22:30.350
except for to amend the overlay. Okay thank you.

01:22:30.350 --> 01:22:32.119
Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you

01:22:32.119 --> 01:22:34.880
chair. I'm Sophie in one of your slides you said that there

01:22:34.880 --> 01:22:35.359
was going to be a

01:22:35.359 --> 01:22:39.619
deficit of about 110 parking spaces how many dwelling units

01:22:39.619 --> 01:22:42.039
are proposed in this?

01:22:42.039 --> 01:22:57.069
I believe it comes out to total number of bedrooms was

01:22:57.069 --> 01:23:00.000
sorry

01:23:05.600 --> 01:23:08.939
The bed count is 308 I believe. 300 on the nose. There's

01:23:08.939 --> 01:23:15.239
300 bedrooms with a potential of 300

01:23:15.239 --> 01:23:20.199
residents. I mean could two or more people share a bedroom

01:23:20.199 --> 01:23:21.359
in that in this

01:23:21.359 --> 01:23:21.359
situation I mean. The breakout there are one two sorry

01:23:21.359 --> 01:23:33.039
there are two three and

01:23:33.039 --> 01:23:38.640
four bedroom units. Right so this 300 so my I guess my

01:23:38.640 --> 01:23:39.199
question is how many

01:23:39.199 --> 01:23:41.859
people are projected to live there is it 300 because there

01:23:41.859 --> 01:23:43.560
's 300 bedrooms or is it

01:23:43.560 --> 01:23:48.399
500 because someone might have a roommate in there? To my

01:23:48.399 --> 01:23:49.239
knowledge they

01:23:49.239 --> 01:23:53.399
are rented by the room so that would be 300 students and

01:23:53.399 --> 01:23:54.119
the applicant can

01:23:54.119 --> 01:23:56.539
correct me if I'm wrong. Thank you I appreciate that thank

01:23:56.539 --> 01:23:58.560
you.

01:24:01.399 --> 01:24:05.600
Commissioner Roselle. Thank you chair. Can staff speak to

01:24:05.600 --> 01:24:06.640
this I'm not sure if

01:24:06.640 --> 01:24:10.369
this question can be answered but sub area B the original

01:24:10.369 --> 01:24:11.199
sub area that had

01:24:11.199 --> 01:24:14.550
the one-to-one parking do we know if that was adequate

01:24:14.550 --> 01:24:15.920
parking is there a lot

01:24:15.920 --> 01:24:19.680
completely full or do they have extra spaces in the other

01:24:19.680 --> 01:24:20.920
parking is a one-for-one

01:24:20.920 --> 01:24:29.100
a good standard to have do we know? As it's written in sub

01:24:29.100 --> 01:24:30.520
area B the

01:24:30.520 --> 01:24:40.869
requirement is one-for-one. As for the current parking in

01:24:40.869 --> 01:24:42.079
the Fry Street

01:24:42.079 --> 01:24:44.779
overlay district during the neighborhood meetings there was

01:24:44.779 --> 01:24:49.000
very vocal there is a

01:24:49.000 --> 01:24:53.619
large portion of that community that felt like parking wasn

01:24:53.619 --> 01:24:54.880
't addressed in

01:24:54.880 --> 01:24:59.529
that one-to-one ratio. I've also heard that it's not

01:24:59.529 --> 01:25:02.319
completely parked all the

01:25:02.319 --> 01:25:08.729
time so there's some conflicting information there's a lot

01:25:08.729 --> 01:25:09.399
of literature

01:25:09.399 --> 01:25:16.090
that says the parking minimums induce extra parking however

01:25:16.090 --> 01:25:17.439
we have to look at

01:25:17.439 --> 01:25:20.880
this area and realize that if we allow site-by-site

01:25:20.880 --> 01:25:23.119
reductions of parking we're

01:25:23.119 --> 01:25:26.180
not able to take it from a macro level and understand what

01:25:26.180 --> 01:25:27.159
the true parking

01:25:27.159 --> 01:25:31.760
problems are in that district and until we do that it's

01:25:31.760 --> 01:25:34.359
hard to reconcile those

01:25:34.359 --> 01:25:38.239
into an amendment to the overlay district. So from the

01:25:38.239 --> 01:25:38.720
feedback you've

01:25:38.720 --> 01:25:42.159
been provided although all the parking spots might not be

01:25:42.159 --> 01:25:43.319
used there is some

01:25:43.319 --> 01:25:48.279
spillage happening on the side streets? Okay thank you.

01:25:48.279 --> 01:25:49.680
Commissioner Beck. Thank

01:25:49.680 --> 01:25:52.960
you chair. Excuse me just for some clarification now these

01:25:52.960 --> 01:25:54.239
aren't or are

01:25:54.239 --> 01:25:58.640
they true one-bedroom two-bedroom apartments are they what

01:25:58.640 --> 01:25:59.720
I guess we call

01:25:59.720 --> 01:26:03.670
shared apartments where there's maybe one two or three

01:26:03.670 --> 01:26:05.279
bedrooms but they share

01:26:05.279 --> 01:26:10.359
a common area and a kitchen? Based on the first floor site

01:26:10.359 --> 01:26:11.960
plan that the building

01:26:11.960 --> 01:26:15.859
layout that I have yes that's the that the there are two

01:26:15.859 --> 01:26:17.319
three and four bedroom

01:26:17.319 --> 01:26:20.750
units and they share common space the applicant is here and

01:26:20.750 --> 01:26:21.680
can speak more to

01:26:21.680 --> 01:26:27.319
that product. Okay thank you. Commissioner Dadowitz.

01:26:27.319 --> 01:26:29.720
Further clarification

01:26:29.720 --> 01:26:33.180
please I understand there's gonna be retail businesses on

01:26:33.180 --> 01:26:34.520
the bottom floor

01:26:34.520 --> 01:26:39.220
yes sir and I suspect there's gonna be need for parking for

01:26:39.220 --> 01:26:40.159
those people that's

01:26:40.159 --> 01:26:43.390
gonna visit those retail establishments yes sir how is that

01:26:43.390 --> 01:26:45.039
provided for?

01:26:45.039 --> 01:26:50.409
Currently those parking numbers are in the provided parking

01:26:50.409 --> 01:26:52.600
there's 220 spaces

01:26:52.600 --> 01:26:58.029
provided so based on their ratio they've provided for both

01:26:58.029 --> 01:26:58.920
the multi-family

01:26:58.920 --> 01:27:02.420
component and for the retail component and yet you still

01:27:02.420 --> 01:27:04.640
say they're 120 plus

01:27:04.640 --> 01:27:08.460
short? Yes they are. Now you mentioned something about

01:27:08.460 --> 01:27:09.439
remote parking in

01:27:09.439 --> 01:27:13.579
off-street parking to serve that a building is that

01:27:13.579 --> 01:27:15.399
considered in part of

01:27:15.399 --> 01:27:20.359
that count also? Sure in the Fry Street Overlay District

01:27:20.359 --> 01:27:22.000
when you come in for a

01:27:22.000 --> 01:27:26.119
see-over property if you don't have the parking maybe on-

01:27:26.119 --> 01:27:27.239
site as we know a lot

01:27:27.239 --> 01:27:30.470
of those don't you can provide a shared parking agreement

01:27:30.470 --> 01:27:31.760
that's recorded

01:27:31.760 --> 01:27:34.579
through the county and that can be within a thousand feet

01:27:34.579 --> 01:27:35.479
of that building

01:27:35.479 --> 01:27:40.020
I believe in the DDC and other areas of the city that's

01:27:40.020 --> 01:27:43.079
limited to 300 feet. Thank

01:27:43.079 --> 01:27:50.670
you. So if I have one question on our code our code states

01:27:50.670 --> 01:27:52.140
that one bedroom is

01:27:52.140 --> 01:27:55.489
counts for a half a unit correct? Yes sir. So two bedrooms

01:27:55.489 --> 01:27:57.000
and makes one unit. Yes

01:27:57.000 --> 01:28:06.590
sir. Okay thank you. Commissioner Tyler. Thank you chair so

01:28:06.590 --> 01:28:09.079
one more question I

01:28:09.079 --> 01:28:12.069
couldn't I couldn't locate it in the overlay is there a

01:28:12.069 --> 01:28:13.140
requirement in the

01:28:13.140 --> 01:28:18.119
overlay district for a mixed-use nature on these larger

01:28:18.119 --> 01:28:19.079
projects does it

01:28:19.079 --> 01:28:25.279
specify a ratio of residential to retail square footage? No

01:28:25.279 --> 01:28:25.720
there's no

01:28:25.720 --> 01:28:31.760
requirement for that ratio no. Thank you.

01:28:32.840 --> 01:28:36.560
Commissioner Bruegel. Sorry thank you circling back to

01:28:36.560 --> 01:28:38.199
piggybacking off of you

01:28:38.199 --> 01:28:41.189
so two bedrooms would be considered one unit so how many

01:28:41.189 --> 01:28:42.399
parking spaces are

01:28:42.399 --> 01:28:45.779
provided there's a hundred and ten parking space deficit.

01:28:45.779 --> 01:28:47.079
There if they

01:28:47.079 --> 01:28:51.609
followed sub area B or sorry sub area A requirements they

01:28:51.609 --> 01:28:52.399
would be required to

01:28:52.399 --> 01:28:58.520
have 330 parking spaces what they've provided is 220

01:28:58.520 --> 01:28:59.920
parking spaces which

01:28:59.920 --> 01:29:06.250
complies with their proposed amendment. I see thank you.

01:29:06.250 --> 01:29:08.199
Any other questions for

01:29:08.199 --> 01:29:17.729
staff? Thank you Sophie. This is a public hearing and we've

01:29:17.729 --> 01:29:18.920
got a number of cards

01:29:18.920 --> 01:29:21.960
I'm going to start we have one group card and then we'll

01:29:21.960 --> 01:29:23.239
move to individuals

01:29:23.239 --> 01:29:31.640
the group card I have is from looks like Rob Baldwin

01:29:31.640 --> 01:29:36.239
applicant please

01:29:42.840 --> 01:29:47.390
this is Rodney I'm Rob. I'm technically the applicant but

01:29:47.390 --> 01:29:49.439
Rodney's the developer so if it's okay I'd like for him to

01:29:49.439 --> 01:29:51.960
go first and then

01:29:52.960 --> 01:29:59.220
Ten minutes. Good evening Mr. Chair good evening commission

01:29:59.220 --> 01:30:01.159
ers my name is Rodney King this is the

01:30:01.159 --> 01:30:04.770
conceptual housing plan for the fresh street project that

01:30:04.770 --> 01:30:05.680
we want to do. I'm

01:30:05.680 --> 01:30:08.569
vice president of real estate development with EDR before

01:30:08.569 --> 01:30:10.159
we go into the project I

01:30:10.159 --> 01:30:13.510
want to give you guys just an overview of what EDR is and

01:30:13.510 --> 01:30:15.119
what EDR does. We're

01:30:15.119 --> 01:30:17.539
based in Memphis Tennessee where the nation's second

01:30:17.539 --> 01:30:18.720
largest student housing

01:30:18.720 --> 01:30:22.010
REIT with 52 years old and this is an important important

01:30:22.010 --> 01:30:23.119
point that I want to

01:30:23.119 --> 01:30:26.859
make we own and manage all of our projects we don't sub out

01:30:26.859 --> 01:30:27.479
our management

01:30:27.479 --> 01:30:30.350
group to anybody else so we wouldn't build a project that

01:30:30.350 --> 01:30:31.039
would not be

01:30:31.039 --> 01:30:34.390
financially feasible. We have six other properties here in

01:30:34.390 --> 01:30:36.119
Texas. This just shows

01:30:36.119 --> 01:30:39.090
you a brief map of our Texas properties. We have one

01:30:39.090 --> 01:30:40.680
property that is very close

01:30:40.680 --> 01:30:44.239
to here and that serves Texas Christian University over in

01:30:44.239 --> 01:30:45.159
Fort Worth so I

01:30:45.159 --> 01:30:47.180
encourage all the commissioners and members of the public

01:30:47.180 --> 01:30:47.960
to actually go see

01:30:47.960 --> 01:30:51.250
their property you can see the quality of development that

01:30:51.250 --> 01:30:53.439
we develop. Here are just a

01:30:53.439 --> 01:30:56.100
few projects that we have in the area this Arizona State

01:30:56.100 --> 01:30:57.199
University that's a

01:30:57.199 --> 01:31:04.699
picture of the Texas TCU property. Minnesota and Texas Tech

01:31:04.699 --> 01:31:06.520
University of

01:31:06.520 --> 01:31:10.470
Connecticut and UT Austin. One important point on all those

01:31:10.470 --> 01:31:11.399
properties that I

01:31:11.399 --> 01:31:15.430
just showed you none of those properties are parked one-to-

01:31:15.430 --> 01:31:16.800
one. Good sound

01:31:16.800 --> 01:31:21.489
good sound planning practices does not encourage one-to-one

01:31:21.489 --> 01:31:22.640
parking in any

01:31:22.640 --> 01:31:28.350
urban intense development. This development has been we've

01:31:28.350 --> 01:31:29.039
been in the

01:31:29.039 --> 01:31:31.149
community for quite a while we've started thinking about

01:31:31.149 --> 01:31:31.920
this development

01:31:31.920 --> 01:31:35.000
about this time last year and we started making our public

01:31:35.000 --> 01:31:36.359
outreach. We've had

01:31:36.359 --> 01:31:40.100
several public meetings informal informal with several

01:31:40.100 --> 01:31:41.079
members of the

01:31:41.079 --> 01:31:45.720
community starting back till early September. We met with

01:31:45.720 --> 01:31:46.699
the historic the

01:31:46.699 --> 01:31:48.510
leaders of the historic neighborhoods we met with the

01:31:48.510 --> 01:31:49.680
University of North Texas

01:31:49.680 --> 01:31:53.119
we've had two public meetings and an additional follow-up

01:31:53.119 --> 01:31:54.159
meeting with the

01:31:54.159 --> 01:31:57.220
University of North Texas and one important point with the

01:31:57.220 --> 01:31:58.039
public meetings

01:31:58.039 --> 01:32:01.689
we initially proposed a plan that had 374 beds and there

01:32:01.689 --> 01:32:03.600
was about 60% parked.

01:32:03.600 --> 01:32:06.279
During that public meeting we heard some opposition so we

01:32:06.279 --> 01:32:07.079
went back to the

01:32:07.079 --> 01:32:10.489
drawing table reduce the bed count and increase the parking

01:32:10.489 --> 01:32:11.239
ratio to where we

01:32:11.239 --> 01:32:15.699
are today. I'm gonna let Rob talk a little bit about the D

01:32:15.699 --> 01:32:17.560
IN plan 2030 and how

01:32:17.560 --> 01:32:22.770
this project supports that. Thank you very much my name is

01:32:22.770 --> 01:32:23.359
Rob Baldwin

01:32:23.359 --> 01:32:27.359
office at 3904 Elm Street Suite B in Dallas and I'm an

01:32:27.359 --> 01:32:28.159
urban planner and a

01:32:28.159 --> 01:32:31.420
planning consultant and I'm helping EDR with this. The DIN

01:32:31.420 --> 01:32:35.359
plan 2030 it's big

01:32:35.359 --> 01:32:38.850
there's a lot that it says but there's a couple of things

01:32:38.850 --> 01:32:40.159
that I think is

01:32:40.159 --> 01:32:42.960
important here. One it promotes mixed-use development

01:32:42.960 --> 01:32:44.079
especially mixed-use

01:32:44.079 --> 01:32:49.520
development next to the University and it states that the

01:32:49.520 --> 01:32:49.920
mixed-use

01:32:49.920 --> 01:32:52.039
development you should take a look at the parking

01:32:52.039 --> 01:32:53.140
requirements make sure

01:32:53.140 --> 01:32:56.600
they're adequate and there's actually a provision in the

01:32:56.600 --> 01:32:58.119
urban design standards

01:32:58.119 --> 01:33:00.500
that says if you're a mixed-use project with the University

01:33:00.500 --> 01:33:01.039
you shouldn't even

01:33:01.039 --> 01:33:03.890
have to provide off-street parking. I think that's a little

01:33:03.890 --> 01:33:04.760
extreme and I don't

01:33:04.760 --> 01:33:07.729
think that that we're asking for that but I think it does

01:33:07.729 --> 01:33:09.520
recognize that maybe

01:33:09.520 --> 01:33:13.760
since we're proximity to a large generator of where people

01:33:13.760 --> 01:33:14.800
are going and

01:33:14.800 --> 01:33:16.909
we have students right across the street from where they're

01:33:16.909 --> 01:33:17.720
going to be going

01:33:17.720 --> 01:33:21.760
maybe a relaxation the parking standards make sense. In

01:33:21.760 --> 01:33:23.960
fact the city's land

01:33:23.960 --> 01:33:27.369
development code says that parking should be looked at an

01:33:27.369 --> 01:33:28.520
individual basis

01:33:28.520 --> 01:33:32.680
if it doesn't there it's warranted to take a look at

01:33:32.680 --> 01:33:35.520
specific projects that

01:33:35.520 --> 01:33:39.720
may the one-to-one parking may not make sense and the great

01:33:39.720 --> 01:33:40.720
way to bring it

01:33:40.720 --> 01:33:43.380
forward is this to the planning Commission and zoning

01:33:43.380 --> 01:33:44.279
Commission to take

01:33:44.279 --> 01:33:53.119
a look at it. So the 2030 plan says that this type of this

01:33:53.119 --> 01:33:54.119
area should serve as a

01:33:54.119 --> 01:33:57.470
buffer between the University and the residential to the

01:33:57.470 --> 01:33:58.680
north and I think this

01:33:58.680 --> 01:34:02.279
does it. This project is very similar to the Frye Street

01:34:02.279 --> 01:34:03.520
Center project in fact

01:34:03.520 --> 01:34:06.560
it's the same architect the difference is it's smaller it's

01:34:06.560 --> 01:34:08.399
not as it's not as

01:34:08.399 --> 01:34:12.680
doesn't take up a full block it is actually shorter by

01:34:12.680 --> 01:34:14.239
three feet or two

01:34:14.239 --> 01:34:17.319
feet then than that the parking garage and that existing

01:34:17.319 --> 01:34:18.279
project can go up to

01:34:18.279 --> 01:34:21.869
60 feet where the buildings can go to 55 feet we're

01:34:21.869 --> 01:34:23.760
proposing 58 feet the

01:34:23.760 --> 01:34:27.960
difference is all of our parking is internal.

01:34:29.119 --> 01:34:35.479
This is consistent with the plans recommendation that the

01:34:35.479 --> 01:34:35.920
goal

01:34:35.920 --> 01:34:39.239
provided multi-mode transportation near the University this

01:34:39.239 --> 01:34:40.279
is interesting that

01:34:40.279 --> 01:34:44.399
we have zip car if I don't know familiar with zip car where

01:34:44.399 --> 01:34:45.720
cars are on site so

01:34:45.720 --> 01:34:47.609
if someone needs a car they can rent it for the day they

01:34:47.609 --> 01:34:48.359
can rent it for the

01:34:48.359 --> 01:34:53.800
hour. EDR is a partner with uber when people come in they

01:34:53.800 --> 01:34:55.119
get to rent there

01:34:55.119 --> 01:35:01.720
they get uber coupons we're right on transit line it's they

01:35:01.720 --> 01:35:03.119
have a bicycle

01:35:03.119 --> 01:35:06.810
sharing program and they have a large bicycle storage area

01:35:06.810 --> 01:35:07.840
in the garage so

01:35:07.840 --> 01:35:10.539
this is truly a multi-modal project right across from the

01:35:10.539 --> 01:35:11.479
University which

01:35:11.479 --> 01:35:15.359
seems from a plan standpoint in my mind to make sense and

01:35:15.359 --> 01:35:16.600
this project also

01:35:16.600 --> 01:35:20.840
furthers the urban design guidelines there the urban design

01:35:20.840 --> 01:35:21.520
guidance want to

01:35:21.520 --> 01:35:25.050
have a good presence along the street and this doesn't it's

01:35:25.050 --> 01:35:26.159
going to look very

01:35:26.159 --> 01:35:30.300
similar to the project down the street where we have a nice

01:35:30.300 --> 01:35:31.680
street wall a lot

01:35:31.680 --> 01:35:35.159
of landscaping a lot of pedestrian amenities so I think we

01:35:35.159 --> 01:35:36.000
are consistent

01:35:36.000 --> 01:35:38.659
with the plan again it's a big plan there's a lot of places

01:35:38.659 --> 01:35:38.920
where you can

01:35:38.920 --> 01:35:42.520
pick and choose I think the overall thrust is let's use

01:35:42.520 --> 01:35:43.359
some planning and

01:35:43.359 --> 01:35:47.029
some common sense when you have a use a mixed use next to

01:35:47.029 --> 01:35:48.520
the University and I

01:35:48.520 --> 01:35:50.569
think that we're doing that and I'm gonna turn it back over

01:35:50.569 --> 01:35:51.159
to Rodney and

01:35:51.159 --> 01:35:53.039
then I'll be here to answer any questions you may have

01:35:53.039 --> 01:35:53.640
after Rodney's

01:35:53.640 --> 01:35:58.229
done I see the timer ticking on me may I ask for additional

01:35:58.229 --> 01:35:59.000
time because we want

01:35:59.000 --> 01:36:02.949
to address clarification of staff each of you get 10

01:36:02.949 --> 01:36:04.199
minutes for a total of 20

01:36:04.199 --> 01:36:10.800
so okay no problem just to clarify some of the project

01:36:10.800 --> 01:36:13.039
information is 300 bits

01:36:13.039 --> 01:36:19.000
83 units 222 parking spaces that equates to 74 percent part

01:36:19.000 --> 01:36:19.880
and as you know this

01:36:19.880 --> 01:36:24.279
project is adjacent to the University of North Texas on a

01:36:24.279 --> 01:36:26.039
more macro level to

01:36:26.039 --> 01:36:28.699
compare this project to the previously approved projects at

01:36:28.699 --> 01:36:29.319
this council and

01:36:29.319 --> 01:36:32.380
this commission this and the council has passed this is

01:36:32.380 --> 01:36:33.720
very similar to both of

01:36:33.720 --> 01:36:36.569
those projects with one major difference between the youth

01:36:36.569 --> 01:36:37.279
center at fresh

01:36:37.279 --> 01:36:40.720
dress fresh street project that project is a hundred

01:36:40.720 --> 01:36:42.279
percent part and based on

01:36:42.279 --> 01:36:44.960
our market study from the management company who operates

01:36:44.960 --> 01:36:46.039
that property they

01:36:46.039 --> 01:36:49.489
only utilize about 70 to 75 percent of their parking they

01:36:49.489 --> 01:36:50.800
can't even charge for

01:36:50.800 --> 01:36:55.989
parking because they don't have the demand for it here's a

01:36:55.989 --> 01:36:57.279
more architectural

01:36:57.279 --> 01:37:00.100
comparison of that property we're about three feet higher

01:37:00.100 --> 01:37:01.159
than the building but

01:37:01.159 --> 01:37:06.500
two feet shorter than the garage you guys have hard copies

01:37:06.500 --> 01:37:07.720
of this packet in

01:37:07.720 --> 01:37:11.520
your it your desk this property is most similar to the

01:37:11.520 --> 01:37:12.279
property that we're

01:37:12.279 --> 01:37:16.229
requesting this property is actually about 70 78 percent

01:37:16.229 --> 01:37:19.000
part 427 days 348

01:37:19.000 --> 01:37:23.600
parking spaces and 275 of those spaces are occupied which

01:37:23.600 --> 01:37:25.359
equates to 56 to 64

01:37:25.359 --> 01:37:28.430
percent utilization utilization rate and this is from the

01:37:28.430 --> 01:37:29.319
directly from the

01:37:29.319 --> 01:37:32.420
management company so we don't necessarily believe that the

01:37:32.420 --> 01:37:33.520
demand for

01:37:33.520 --> 01:37:40.720
100 percent parking is there I'm going to have Adam and Don

01:37:40.720 --> 01:37:41.199
talk about the

01:37:41.199 --> 01:37:45.020
preliminary results of the traffic study you can take that

01:37:45.020 --> 01:37:45.640
off of my time

01:37:47.920 --> 01:37:49.810
good evening my name is Don says name the director of

01:37:49.810 --> 01:37:51.600
traffic engineering

01:37:51.600 --> 01:37:54.359
services with Dunaway Associates and just to give you a

01:37:54.359 --> 01:37:55.079
little bit of

01:37:55.079 --> 01:37:57.579
background I'm gonna actually go to the next slide before I

01:37:57.579 --> 01:37:59.640
go to this one we

01:37:59.640 --> 01:38:02.619
basically did a traffic study our preliminary the traffic

01:38:02.619 --> 01:38:03.220
study is in

01:38:03.220 --> 01:38:06.399
progress and the reason why it's in progress there's two

01:38:06.399 --> 01:38:07.720
fold we we had to

01:38:07.720 --> 01:38:10.689
wait for the students to get back in campus in order to

01:38:10.689 --> 01:38:11.560
collect some

01:38:11.560 --> 01:38:15.020
additional traffic count data the bulk of the data was

01:38:15.020 --> 01:38:16.720
collected last semester

01:38:16.720 --> 01:38:20.210
just before finals week and there were there are a couple

01:38:20.210 --> 01:38:21.199
more intersections

01:38:21.199 --> 01:38:23.279
that that they wanted counted so we had to wait for the

01:38:23.279 --> 01:38:24.239
students get back in

01:38:24.239 --> 01:38:30.630
session second of all we we asked for city approval of our

01:38:30.630 --> 01:38:31.680
proposed scope and

01:38:31.680 --> 01:38:35.600
we got those comments back late Friday afternoon so it's it

01:38:35.600 --> 01:38:36.840
's work in progress

01:38:36.840 --> 01:38:41.180
as far as the traffic study goes just to summarize some of

01:38:41.180 --> 01:38:43.239
the findings here the

01:38:43.239 --> 01:38:46.560
vehicular trips during the peak hours the a.m. and p.m. as

01:38:46.560 --> 01:38:48.800
you can see in the

01:38:48.800 --> 01:38:51.880
morning we're expecting 30 additional vehicles and in the

01:38:51.880 --> 01:38:52.640
evening we're

01:38:52.640 --> 01:38:56.720
expecting 41 additional vehicles bulk of the traffic will

01:38:56.720 --> 01:38:58.359
be pedestrian trips in

01:38:58.359 --> 01:39:03.119
the a.m. we anticipate 67 pedestrians and in the p.m. 94

01:39:03.119 --> 01:39:04.979
pedestrians to

01:39:04.979 --> 01:39:08.939
summarize the intersection operations all the intersections

01:39:08.939 --> 01:39:09.960
now that all the

01:39:09.960 --> 01:39:13.270
intersections were from Welch along Oak and Hickory all the

01:39:13.270 --> 01:39:14.239
way down to Bonnie

01:39:14.239 --> 01:39:17.739
Bray and then we also looked at the Bonnie Bray and

01:39:17.739 --> 01:39:19.279
scripture intersection

01:39:19.279 --> 01:39:22.270
all the intersections are expected to operate in level

01:39:22.270 --> 01:39:23.439
service here better

01:39:23.439 --> 01:39:27.390
except for Oak and Welch which is currently un-signalized

01:39:27.390 --> 01:39:28.000
and it's

01:39:28.000 --> 01:39:31.600
currently operating at level service D the problem movement

01:39:31.600 --> 01:39:32.560
there is the north

01:39:32.560 --> 01:39:36.590
bound left turn with site traffic it's going to decrease to

01:39:36.590 --> 01:39:38.920
level service E and

01:39:38.920 --> 01:39:41.890
when I talk about level service it's synonymous with grades

01:39:41.890 --> 01:39:42.680
in school they go

01:39:42.680 --> 01:39:48.359
from a to F a being good F being bad and then Bonnie Bray

01:39:48.359 --> 01:39:49.359
and scripture is

01:39:49.359 --> 01:39:52.100
currently operating at level service D and from my

01:39:52.100 --> 01:39:53.680
understanding it's soon to

01:39:53.680 --> 01:39:56.739
be signalized and once it's signalized it will improve the

01:39:56.739 --> 01:39:59.159
level service A so

01:39:59.159 --> 01:40:02.880
getting back to the pedestrians this here is what I'm

01:40:02.880 --> 01:40:04.279
calling potential

01:40:04.279 --> 01:40:08.090
pedestrian paths the blue dots within the red area are the

01:40:08.090 --> 01:40:09.420
residential access

01:40:09.420 --> 01:40:12.770
points these could be elevators I think the one in within

01:40:12.770 --> 01:40:13.600
the garage is an

01:40:13.600 --> 01:40:17.039
elevator and then the two on the outer outer boundaries are

01:40:17.039 --> 01:40:18.840
stairwells the green

01:40:18.840 --> 01:40:24.430
dot is the retail front door so looking at potential paths

01:40:24.430 --> 01:40:24.880
for the

01:40:24.880 --> 01:40:28.159
pedestrians the different lines that are indicate potential

01:40:28.159 --> 01:40:29.960
pedestrian paths now

01:40:29.960 --> 01:40:32.619
ideally we'd like all the pedestrians to cross at the

01:40:32.619 --> 01:40:34.039
signalized intersections

01:40:34.039 --> 01:40:40.000
but will that happen so one of the things we might consider

01:40:40.000 --> 01:40:40.760
is how do how

01:40:40.760 --> 01:40:44.479
do we address that pedestrian movement it could be a mid-

01:40:44.479 --> 01:40:46.560
block crossing it

01:40:46.560 --> 01:40:49.819
could be some additional enhancements at the the the

01:40:49.819 --> 01:40:51.159
intersection to the

01:40:51.159 --> 01:40:55.310
southwest there having to be so in summary I think the

01:40:55.310 --> 01:40:56.880
there's not going to

01:40:56.880 --> 01:41:01.659
be a vehicular issue with this with this project but

01:41:01.659 --> 01:41:03.159
pedestrians is definitely

01:41:03.159 --> 01:41:06.640
something that needs to be addressed I'll turn back over to

01:41:06.640 --> 01:41:09.199
Rodney thank you I

01:41:09.199 --> 01:41:12.909
think Rob touched on this area earlier just some of the

01:41:12.909 --> 01:41:14.000
amenities in this

01:41:14.000 --> 01:41:16.859
project that will actually reduce vehicular traffic is zip

01:41:16.859 --> 01:41:17.600
car we have a

01:41:17.600 --> 01:41:20.640
service called gotcha bike where it's a community bike

01:41:20.640 --> 01:41:22.079
program any resident can

01:41:22.079 --> 01:41:24.470
use a bike for a specific amount of time they just have to

01:41:24.470 --> 01:41:25.399
rent it out and bring

01:41:25.399 --> 01:41:31.680
it back it's very similar to a city bike in Dallas and uber

01:41:31.680 --> 01:41:34.399
I'm gonna let Adam or

01:41:34.399 --> 01:41:37.100
Randall with Don away as an associate to talk about site

01:41:37.100 --> 01:41:38.199
capacities and site

01:41:38.199 --> 01:41:41.479
infrastructure how this project will have a positive or

01:41:41.479 --> 01:41:42.680
negative impact on

01:41:42.680 --> 01:41:50.510
that good evening commissioners Adam Reeves Don away

01:41:50.510 --> 01:41:52.319
associates 170 North

01:41:52.319 --> 01:41:57.939
Preston Prosper Texas Don and I work together he's the

01:41:57.939 --> 01:41:59.000
expert on the traffic

01:41:59.000 --> 01:42:01.050
that's why he spoke before I'll try and give an overview of

01:42:01.050 --> 01:42:01.760
the remainder of

01:42:01.760 --> 01:42:04.880
the engineering questions you may have in terms of site

01:42:04.880 --> 01:42:06.359
capacity the utilities

01:42:06.359 --> 01:42:09.359
around the site obviously Hickory and Oak have been around

01:42:09.359 --> 01:42:11.039
for many many years

01:42:11.039 --> 01:42:14.390
there is full infrastructure both on each one of those

01:42:14.390 --> 01:42:15.640
roads that we would

01:42:15.640 --> 01:42:18.470
connect into through pre-development meetings we've had

01:42:18.470 --> 01:42:19.520
with the city staff

01:42:19.520 --> 01:42:22.840
gone back and forth with the engineering department several

01:42:22.840 --> 01:42:23.239
times

01:42:23.239 --> 01:42:25.909
there are waterline connections sewer line connections on

01:42:25.909 --> 01:42:27.159
both of those roadways

01:42:27.159 --> 01:42:31.189
which we would propose tying into early studies that the

01:42:31.189 --> 01:42:32.560
city has done has told

01:42:32.560 --> 01:42:35.600
us from a sewer capacity standpoint essentially we would

01:42:35.600 --> 01:42:36.399
just split our

01:42:36.399 --> 01:42:39.750
building flow north and south to each one of those roads in

01:42:39.750 --> 01:42:40.720
that split into

01:42:40.720 --> 01:42:44.010
those two systems would provide the capacity we need for

01:42:44.010 --> 01:42:45.079
the hotels the room

01:42:45.079 --> 01:42:48.630
or excuse me the rooms that we're going to have on the site

01:42:48.630 --> 01:42:49.960
from a waterline

01:42:49.960 --> 01:42:53.310
standpoint water pressure we believe everything is fine for

01:42:53.310 --> 01:42:55.079
the system if it

01:42:55.079 --> 01:42:57.880
comes down to it when we get to the engineering if anything

01:42:57.880 --> 01:42:58.640
just do the

01:42:58.640 --> 01:43:02.159
height of the building potential look at fire pumps or

01:43:02.159 --> 01:43:03.039
something in that

01:43:03.039 --> 01:43:05.729
situation to make sure the pressure inside the building is

01:43:05.729 --> 01:43:06.560
adequate when we

01:43:06.560 --> 01:43:12.130
get that extra elevation from a storm drainage standpoint

01:43:12.130 --> 01:43:13.319
that site is

01:43:13.319 --> 01:43:17.550
essentially developed to a fully impervious condition at

01:43:17.550 --> 01:43:18.439
today well with

01:43:18.439 --> 01:43:21.100
the sidewalks along both streets the parking lot and the

01:43:21.100 --> 01:43:22.119
buildings taking up

01:43:22.119 --> 01:43:25.029
almost the entire lot that we're going to take so

01:43:25.029 --> 01:43:26.880
essentially it would just be

01:43:26.880 --> 01:43:30.829
almost a one-for-one condition however that drainage is

01:43:30.829 --> 01:43:32.239
today it would be the

01:43:32.239 --> 01:43:34.899
same amount of runoff that you would see in the ultimate

01:43:34.899 --> 01:43:35.760
condition and just over

01:43:35.760 --> 01:43:39.229
the course of not the zoning separate but during the zoning

01:43:39.229 --> 01:43:41.039
is approved during

01:43:41.039 --> 01:43:44.539
our construction plan process for those plans we would make

01:43:44.539 --> 01:43:45.520
sure that we're

01:43:45.520 --> 01:43:48.600
proving each one of those conditions out and coordinating

01:43:48.600 --> 01:43:49.600
with your engineering

01:43:49.600 --> 01:43:52.880
staff to make sure they're satisfied with what we're

01:43:52.880 --> 01:43:54.960
proposing I'll be around

01:43:54.960 --> 01:43:59.199
if there's more questions as well just to refute a comment

01:43:59.199 --> 01:44:00.680
that was made in the

01:44:00.680 --> 01:44:04.399
earlier work session based on our talks with the city

01:44:04.399 --> 01:44:05.680
engineering staff the

01:44:05.680 --> 01:44:10.210
site does have enough capacity for this project and just

01:44:10.210 --> 01:44:11.560
some of the advantages

01:44:11.560 --> 01:44:14.409
and requests that we're actually making from project as you

01:44:14.409 --> 01:44:15.079
all know this

01:44:15.079 --> 01:44:18.520
project is within steps of the University of North Texas so

01:44:18.520 --> 01:44:19.079
we truly

01:44:19.079 --> 01:44:21.579
believe and we have evidence throughout our 60 properties

01:44:21.579 --> 01:44:22.359
that we operate across

01:44:22.359 --> 01:44:25.880
the country that students will not take their cars from

01:44:25.880 --> 01:44:26.880
this project to the

01:44:26.880 --> 01:44:29.539
University of Texas so we believe this project will

01:44:29.539 --> 01:44:30.920
actually help in the traffic

01:44:30.920 --> 01:44:35.880
congestion problem that's around Fry, Hickory and Oak

01:44:35.880 --> 01:44:38.039
Street and also this

01:44:38.039 --> 01:44:40.779
project is walkable to entertainment venues that should

01:44:40.779 --> 01:44:41.600
help on the late

01:44:41.600 --> 01:44:43.829
night traffic as you hear it done say we believe the

01:44:43.829 --> 01:44:45.000
majority of our traffic

01:44:45.000 --> 01:44:47.859
exiting this building will be actually pedestrians they're

01:44:47.859 --> 01:44:48.720
not necessarily

01:44:48.720 --> 01:44:55.760
vehicle traffic and the two key requests that we're making

01:44:55.760 --> 01:44:56.600
is increase

01:44:56.600 --> 01:45:01.029
the height limitation from 45 feet to 58 feet which is

01:45:01.029 --> 01:45:02.600
three feet higher a

01:45:02.600 --> 01:45:07.130
yardstick higher than the existing building at U Center Fry

01:45:07.130 --> 01:45:08.060
Street and two

01:45:08.060 --> 01:45:12.609
feet smaller shorter than the garage and reduce the parking

01:45:12.609 --> 01:45:14.000
ratio from one to one

01:45:14.000 --> 01:45:22.680
to 0.7 to one. Rob did you just sum it up sure I think this

01:45:22.680 --> 01:45:23.560
is a great example

01:45:23.560 --> 01:45:27.949
of mixed-use development in an appropriate location and we

01:45:27.949 --> 01:45:28.840
think that

01:45:28.840 --> 01:45:32.380
with EDR's experience in doing this they wouldn't propose

01:45:32.380 --> 01:45:33.720
something they couldn't

01:45:33.720 --> 01:45:37.380
finance operate or maintain they do not sell their products

01:45:37.380 --> 01:45:37.760
so they're not

01:45:37.760 --> 01:45:39.789
they're not going to go forward to do something that's

01:45:39.789 --> 01:45:40.640
going to cause them a

01:45:40.640 --> 01:45:43.800
headache later. We're here to answer any questions you may

01:45:43.800 --> 01:45:45.199
have and we hope you

01:45:45.199 --> 01:45:49.329
can be supportive of what we're asking for thank you.

01:45:49.329 --> 01:45:50.039
Commissioner Beck.

01:45:50.039 --> 01:45:55.590
Thank you chair. For anyone here these are going to be

01:45:55.590 --> 01:45:56.840
apartments for students

01:45:56.840 --> 01:46:00.479
correct? Correct. Okay. We believe the intended uses for

01:46:00.479 --> 01:46:02.319
students obviously via

01:46:02.319 --> 01:46:06.600
fair housing laws we can't restrict a residency from the

01:46:06.600 --> 01:46:07.560
open general

01:46:07.560 --> 01:46:10.050
public okay but been across the street from the University

01:46:10.050 --> 01:46:10.920
of North Texas we

01:46:10.920 --> 01:46:14.359
believe 99% of our tenants will be students of North Texas.

01:46:14.359 --> 01:46:15.119
Okay and I don't

01:46:15.119 --> 01:46:18.270
disagree with your argument that once these students are

01:46:18.270 --> 01:46:19.119
there they're not

01:46:19.119 --> 01:46:21.140
going to use their vehicles a lot right they're going to do

01:46:21.140 --> 01:46:22.000
a lot of walking and

01:46:22.000 --> 01:46:25.090
biking but my question is to you how do they get to this

01:46:25.090 --> 01:46:26.279
dwelling in the first

01:46:26.279 --> 01:46:29.250
place they're coming from out of town or maybe the other

01:46:29.250 --> 01:46:30.960
side of town they're not

01:46:30.960 --> 01:46:33.090
necessarily going to walk or drive so where do they put

01:46:33.090 --> 01:46:34.000
their car when we run

01:46:34.000 --> 01:46:38.119
out of parking spaces in your facility in the garage I

01:46:38.119 --> 01:46:39.239
guess where you're going

01:46:39.239 --> 01:46:41.949
to be putting below the surface is that correct? Well no

01:46:41.949 --> 01:46:43.000
the parking spaces I

01:46:43.000 --> 01:46:46.710
don't know if you guys have the exact site plan the parking

01:46:46.710 --> 01:46:48.199
garage is interior

01:46:48.199 --> 01:46:52.039
building so there is a 222 space parking garage that's

01:46:52.039 --> 01:46:53.880
concealed by the housing

01:46:53.880 --> 01:46:57.600
development. Okay gotcha you're right so where when these

01:46:57.600 --> 01:46:59.199
students get here

01:46:59.199 --> 01:47:02.239
where they gonna put their cars if there's no place in that

01:47:02.239 --> 01:47:03.079
facility put it

01:47:03.079 --> 01:47:06.170
they're gonna put them on the streets and that's I think

01:47:06.170 --> 01:47:07.199
what a lot of people

01:47:07.199 --> 01:47:10.949
are concerned about is the overflow how that'll affect?

01:47:10.949 --> 01:47:13.079
Based on the two direct

01:47:13.079 --> 01:47:16.069
most comparable properties in the market we don't

01:47:16.069 --> 01:47:17.880
necessarily believe that we

01:47:17.880 --> 01:47:20.029
will have a hundred percent a hundred percent of our

01:47:20.029 --> 01:47:21.000
tenants will not have

01:47:21.000 --> 01:47:25.420
cars. Okay how do they get there though how does that how

01:47:25.420 --> 01:47:26.439
does that work out I

01:47:26.439 --> 01:47:29.300
mean what is that based on do their parents come and drop

01:47:29.300 --> 01:47:30.479
them off and then

01:47:30.479 --> 01:47:32.670
come get them when they go home? A lot of college students

01:47:32.670 --> 01:47:33.920
don't necessarily own or

01:47:33.920 --> 01:47:38.449
have cars so typically however they got to school they

01:47:38.449 --> 01:47:39.079
would just live in our

01:47:39.079 --> 01:47:42.399
apartment and utilize the pedestrian access points that we

01:47:42.399 --> 01:47:43.439
will construct to

01:47:43.439 --> 01:47:46.880
go to class. Okay again I'm not sure maybe I'm not making

01:47:46.880 --> 01:47:47.359
clear I'm not sure

01:47:47.359 --> 01:47:50.439
you're answering my question they've got to get there by

01:47:50.439 --> 01:47:51.079
some mode of

01:47:51.079 --> 01:47:53.500
transportation I would suspect that very few of them are

01:47:53.500 --> 01:47:54.800
going to walk or bike if

01:47:54.800 --> 01:47:58.659
they live in those apartments they're probably okay sure. I

01:47:58.659 --> 01:47:59.560
have a daughter in

01:47:59.560 --> 01:48:03.689
college and she's in a suburban college location and you

01:48:03.689 --> 01:48:05.119
would expect a lot of

01:48:05.119 --> 01:48:08.090
people to have cars it's in California you know where it's

01:48:08.090 --> 01:48:09.020
a California car

01:48:09.020 --> 01:48:15.439
culture there's probably 20 to 30 percent of her class she

01:48:15.439 --> 01:48:16.079
's a sophomore

01:48:16.079 --> 01:48:19.260
that own cars the rest of people they they drive their

01:48:19.260 --> 01:48:20.560
parents drive them and

01:48:20.560 --> 01:48:25.840
drop them off. Okay so that's pretty much what your base in

01:48:25.840 --> 01:48:26.720
your estimates on

01:48:26.720 --> 01:48:30.159
then is that? Well in their experience they have how many

01:48:30.159 --> 01:48:30.680
projects in

01:48:30.680 --> 01:48:33.579
Texas? We have six properties in Texas we own or manage

01:48:33.579 --> 01:48:35.119
around 40,000 bids across

01:48:35.119 --> 01:48:38.430
the country so as Rob alluded to earlier we would not build

01:48:38.430 --> 01:48:39.720
a project that would

01:48:39.720 --> 01:48:43.350
not be successful. We are a nationally recognized company

01:48:43.350 --> 01:48:44.600
and we don't sell our

01:48:44.600 --> 01:48:46.979
projects we're actually penalized if we develop something

01:48:46.979 --> 01:48:48.039
and sell it because

01:48:48.039 --> 01:48:50.869
we're a real estate investment trust traded on the New York

01:48:50.869 --> 01:48:51.840
Stock has changed

01:48:51.840 --> 01:48:55.310
the stock ticker EDR. Okay one last question then I'll turn

01:48:55.310 --> 01:48:56.279
it over these

01:48:56.279 --> 01:48:58.369
Texas sites that you have how long have they been in

01:48:58.369 --> 01:48:59.539
existence where if we did

01:48:59.539 --> 01:49:02.510
want to go view them have they been around? The most yes

01:49:02.510 --> 01:49:04.239
they've been around the

01:49:04.239 --> 01:49:07.680
the one that was the most recently developed was delivered

01:49:07.680 --> 01:49:09.039
in 2013 in

01:49:09.039 --> 01:49:12.390
Austin Texas we have a site under construction now in San

01:49:12.390 --> 01:49:13.000
Marcos Texas

01:49:13.000 --> 01:49:17.720
that is 69% parked. What about the TCU? TCU has been around

01:49:17.720 --> 01:49:19.479
since 2005 but don't

01:49:19.479 --> 01:49:22.560
quote me on that and I would encourage you to go look at

01:49:22.560 --> 01:49:23.640
that site and you look

01:49:23.640 --> 01:49:29.640
at the utilization of our parking garage. Okay thank you.

01:49:31.600 --> 01:49:34.939
Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you chair. Mr. King I

01:49:34.939 --> 01:49:37.840
acknowledge that you you have

01:49:37.840 --> 01:49:40.500
made some accommodations after meeting with the

01:49:40.500 --> 01:49:41.880
neighborhood you scaled back

01:49:41.880 --> 01:49:46.020
the size of the or the number of dwelling bedrooms and

01:49:46.020 --> 01:49:47.239
increased parking

01:49:47.239 --> 01:49:49.420
spaces I'm wondering were there other accommodations that

01:49:49.420 --> 01:49:50.159
were made when you

01:49:50.159 --> 01:49:53.739
met with the neighborhood? Well those were the two items of

01:49:53.739 --> 01:49:55.159
note we've made

01:49:55.159 --> 01:49:59.619
some some additional architectural changes to actually let

01:49:59.619 --> 01:50:00.680
the space on the

01:50:00.680 --> 01:50:03.539
first floor be subdivided for future use if smaller tenants

01:50:03.539 --> 01:50:05.119
want to come in but

01:50:05.119 --> 01:50:07.930
that wasn't necessarily an issue with the neighborhood the

01:50:07.930 --> 01:50:09.319
primary point of

01:50:09.319 --> 01:50:12.050
focus with the neighborhood meetings was the parking. And

01:50:12.050 --> 01:50:13.359
what about the height of

01:50:13.359 --> 01:50:14.920
the building did anyone mention that to you in their

01:50:14.920 --> 01:50:15.720
neighborhood meetings?

01:50:15.720 --> 01:50:18.760
Believe it or not we thought height would be a big issue

01:50:18.760 --> 01:50:20.039
but when you look at

01:50:20.039 --> 01:50:22.789
the height on the raw terms it's pretty comparable as I

01:50:22.789 --> 01:50:24.039
said earlier it's a yard

01:50:24.039 --> 01:50:27.010
stick taller than the building that's down the street and

01:50:27.010 --> 01:50:28.399
most neighbors have

01:50:28.399 --> 01:50:33.000
it hasn't that issue hasn't arose again since we provide

01:50:33.000 --> 01:50:36.840
the data. Okay thank you.

01:50:37.119 --> 01:50:45.520
Commissioner Hutsmith. So I have two questions. One I'm

01:50:45.520 --> 01:50:47.640
curious if you have any

01:50:47.640 --> 01:50:50.720
documentation so you've you've alluded to the numbers for

01:50:50.720 --> 01:50:51.840
your site your other

01:50:51.840 --> 01:50:58.069
sites and and so and the the document you alluded to the

01:50:58.069 --> 01:50:59.159
numbers of the sites

01:50:59.159 --> 01:51:05.100
on that same in that same area but there's there's no I'm

01:51:05.100 --> 01:51:05.960
assuming from your

01:51:05.960 --> 01:51:08.859
the properties you could have easily or have gotten that

01:51:08.859 --> 01:51:10.119
written down that says

01:51:10.119 --> 01:51:13.880
here's our current usage here's our current there's nothing

01:51:13.880 --> 01:51:14.560
that that that

01:51:14.560 --> 01:51:18.920
documents other than you representing it so. Well I can

01:51:18.920 --> 01:51:19.819
definitely get that

01:51:19.819 --> 01:51:21.670
information but we didn't think that information was

01:51:21.670 --> 01:51:22.560
relevant we thought the

01:51:22.560 --> 01:51:26.119
two properties that are in the market are the most relevant

01:51:26.119 --> 01:51:27.720
comps. So sure and

01:51:27.720 --> 01:51:30.539
I agree and you've had a conversation with them and so I'm

01:51:30.539 --> 01:51:31.399
assuming at some

01:51:31.399 --> 01:51:35.539
level they would write that. Well you got to remember their

01:51:35.539 --> 01:51:36.760
competitors so they're

01:51:36.760 --> 01:51:40.880
not looking for a competitor to come into the market so I

01:51:40.880 --> 01:51:41.319
wouldn't want to

01:51:41.319 --> 01:51:47.239
put my fate in their hands. Okay my only my only point to

01:51:47.239 --> 01:51:47.920
that is if they're

01:51:47.920 --> 01:51:51.670
discussing it with you then obviously they're revealing

01:51:51.670 --> 01:51:52.399
something behind

01:51:52.399 --> 01:51:55.970
some closed order that you know they've gone a step if I

01:51:55.970 --> 01:51:56.920
want to keep something

01:51:56.920 --> 01:51:59.420
secret I won't even discuss it with you so the fact that

01:51:59.420 --> 01:52:00.199
they've discussed it

01:52:00.199 --> 01:52:04.340
with you means there's some level of in my opinion and I

01:52:04.340 --> 01:52:06.199
could be wrong I could

01:52:06.199 --> 01:52:08.890
just be ignorant to that but I don't I'll tell you where I

01:52:08.890 --> 01:52:09.760
struggle with I

01:52:09.760 --> 01:52:14.199
have your word correct and nothing in documenting those

01:52:14.199 --> 01:52:15.119
those facts. Well to

01:52:15.119 --> 01:52:17.779
your point there are two properties they're owned by two

01:52:17.779 --> 01:52:18.279
different groups

01:52:18.279 --> 01:52:21.340
one group is owned by ACC which is out of Austin Texas

01:52:21.340 --> 01:52:22.399
which is our chief

01:52:22.399 --> 01:52:25.130
competitor and we have a friendly arrangement that we share

01:52:25.130 --> 01:52:25.760
information

01:52:25.760 --> 01:52:28.859
back and forth we did get objective information on the

01:52:28.859 --> 01:52:29.840
Eagle Street property

01:52:29.840 --> 01:52:32.810
that property was on the market to be sold so we do have

01:52:32.810 --> 01:52:33.880
the due diligence

01:52:33.880 --> 01:52:36.779
materials there they're typically out open to the public so

01:52:36.779 --> 01:52:37.560
that information

01:52:37.560 --> 01:52:40.390
has been verified through the marketing of the property.

01:52:40.390 --> 01:52:42.720
Okay and then if I may

01:52:42.720 --> 01:52:48.600
the other question I had is so I've you've highlighted the

01:52:48.600 --> 01:52:49.279
similarities

01:52:49.279 --> 01:52:53.149
correct what's the difference what is that what is the and

01:52:53.149 --> 01:52:54.000
give me give me

01:52:54.000 --> 01:52:59.250
just the the top one or two what what what value add do you

01:52:59.250 --> 01:53:00.840
bring to that to

01:53:00.840 --> 01:53:03.619
that area? The differences in this project is actually

01:53:03.619 --> 01:53:05.039
smaller than both of

01:53:05.039 --> 01:53:08.539
those projects that are on Hick on Fry Street and the Eagle

01:53:08.539 --> 01:53:10.199
Drive project so

01:53:10.199 --> 01:53:12.409
we're not looking for a massive intensive use like the

01:53:12.409 --> 01:53:13.039
youth center at

01:53:13.039 --> 01:53:16.130
Fry Street project and also one of the differences is it

01:53:16.130 --> 01:53:16.720
may not necessarily

01:53:16.720 --> 01:53:19.630
answer your question but the University of North Texas is

01:53:19.630 --> 01:53:20.800
growing and they have

01:53:20.800 --> 01:53:26.460
an aggressive growth plan and they're going there is a need

01:53:26.460 --> 01:53:27.239
for this type of

01:53:27.239 --> 01:53:33.359
housing the entire market here in Den Texas is 99% occupied

01:53:33.359 --> 01:53:34.960
. One other thing I

01:53:34.960 --> 01:53:38.119
think they bring is that they own and operate their own

01:53:38.119 --> 01:53:39.399
facilities they're not

01:53:39.399 --> 01:53:42.140
merchant builders they don't build it and then sell it so

01:53:42.140 --> 01:53:42.840
they're they're

01:53:42.840 --> 01:53:47.670
going to be around to make sure it's maintained for their

01:53:47.670 --> 01:53:49.539
investors. If I may.

01:53:49.539 --> 01:53:52.979
Continue you have the floor. So a but really I'm looking

01:53:52.979 --> 01:53:54.960
for a tangible I guess

01:53:54.960 --> 01:54:00.449
that's my point I understand the need for apartments and

01:54:00.449 --> 01:54:01.960
housing for the

01:54:01.960 --> 01:54:06.300
students I understand that due to that need someone's going

01:54:06.300 --> 01:54:06.640
to build an

01:54:06.640 --> 01:54:09.329
apartment but what I'm specifically saying what tangible I

01:54:09.329 --> 01:54:10.560
could I for

01:54:10.560 --> 01:54:14.699
example there's grocery stores and needed what what what

01:54:14.699 --> 01:54:15.840
value add what

01:54:15.840 --> 01:54:19.479
tangible if I'm talking to a student a resident in that

01:54:19.479 --> 01:54:21.560
area that's going to be

01:54:21.560 --> 01:54:25.159
against your proposal there's got to be do you have

01:54:25.159 --> 01:54:27.439
something that says here's

01:54:27.439 --> 01:54:31.239
why this is a good project for not only the students that

01:54:31.239 --> 01:54:32.479
it's walkable that

01:54:32.479 --> 01:54:35.239
sort of thing but for the area. I think you just hit on it

01:54:35.239 --> 01:54:36.159
there are about 13

01:54:36.159 --> 01:54:39.449
purpose-built student properties here and then two of them

01:54:39.449 --> 01:54:40.880
only two out of 13

01:54:40.880 --> 01:54:44.319
of pedestrian to campus so the value we bring to this

01:54:44.319 --> 01:54:45.760
project is the location

01:54:45.760 --> 01:54:49.430
and the proximity to the University of North Texas. Okay

01:54:49.430 --> 01:54:52.960
thank you. Correct and

01:54:52.960 --> 01:54:56.000
that is one important point that Rob just brought up I don

01:54:56.000 --> 01:54:57.039
't know if you guys

01:54:57.039 --> 01:55:00.319
can see it in the conceptual plan but Vortmans right now

01:55:00.319 --> 01:55:01.600
occupies that site

01:55:01.600 --> 01:55:05.720
Vortmans will be going back into the building on the first

01:55:05.720 --> 01:55:06.760
floor and they

01:55:06.760 --> 01:55:13.210
will own their space. Commissioner Roselle. Thank you sir.

01:55:13.210 --> 01:55:14.680
I have a question

01:55:14.680 --> 01:55:18.119
about the renting of the apartments if it's a two-bedroom

01:55:18.119 --> 01:55:19.159
is it rented as a

01:55:19.159 --> 01:55:22.130
two-bedroom for one name lease or is it two different

01:55:22.130 --> 01:55:23.920
people in the lease? We

01:55:23.920 --> 01:55:27.630
rent per bedroom so a two-bedroom apartment can have two

01:55:27.630 --> 01:55:28.520
tenants in it

01:55:28.520 --> 01:55:31.760
they cannot share or double up in the bedroom so we have

01:55:31.760 --> 01:55:33.520
300 beds we intend to

01:55:33.520 --> 01:55:36.989
have 300 residents hopefully if we're successful in this

01:55:36.989 --> 01:55:38.520
development. So if if

01:55:38.520 --> 01:55:42.050
me and a friend go in and rent two bedrooms and he decides

01:55:42.050 --> 01:55:43.000
that he wants

01:55:43.000 --> 01:55:46.489
out, breaks the lease and leaves are you free to rent that

01:55:46.489 --> 01:55:47.439
room out to any

01:55:47.439 --> 01:55:50.520
applicant? Correct that's the beauty of the purpose-built

01:55:50.520 --> 01:55:52.319
student housing. Parents

01:55:52.319 --> 01:55:54.979
really like the concept because you're not liable for your

01:55:54.979 --> 01:55:55.520
roommates rent

01:55:55.520 --> 01:55:59.039
you're only liable for the lease you signed so if your

01:55:59.039 --> 01:56:00.520
friend you know

01:56:00.520 --> 01:56:04.560
prunex on his lease we can rent that we can relit that

01:56:04.560 --> 01:56:05.600
space to another tenant.

01:56:05.600 --> 01:56:09.800
But that other tenant could be a non-student? Technically

01:56:09.800 --> 01:56:10.880
it could be but

01:56:10.880 --> 01:56:16.239
with the proximity and use we own or manage 40,000 beds

01:56:16.239 --> 01:56:16.760
across the country

01:56:16.760 --> 01:56:21.760
about 99% of our residents are students. Sure I understand

01:56:21.760 --> 01:56:22.880
that I'd still have a

01:56:22.880 --> 01:56:27.899
concern about bringing in an older individual who can just

01:56:27.899 --> 01:56:29.180
room with with

01:56:29.180 --> 01:56:33.399
any student on campus. And that's one of the points we have

01:56:33.399 --> 01:56:33.920
our own management

01:56:33.920 --> 01:56:37.079
partner if there is a roommate conflict we offer services

01:56:37.079 --> 01:56:38.279
to deal with that we

01:56:38.279 --> 01:56:41.470
typically interface with the university on a monthly basis

01:56:41.470 --> 01:56:42.560
so if there's a grave

01:56:42.560 --> 01:56:48.210
or you know concern about your roommate we'll do our best

01:56:48.210 --> 01:56:49.640
to relocate that

01:56:49.640 --> 01:56:54.430
roommate to make sure they're comfortable. Thank you.

01:56:54.430 --> 01:56:56.239
Commissioner Dudowitz. Thank

01:56:56.239 --> 01:56:59.310
you chair just to get some more clarification what's the

01:56:59.310 --> 01:57:00.039
cost to a

01:57:00.039 --> 01:57:04.180
student or a resident per bed and how is it allocated per

01:57:04.180 --> 01:57:06.119
month or quarter per

01:57:06.119 --> 01:57:08.819
semester? They pay monthly rent the cost would be very

01:57:08.819 --> 01:57:09.640
similar to the youth

01:57:09.640 --> 01:57:12.920
center and frasteries starting about 650 for a four-bedroom

01:57:12.920 --> 01:57:14.399
I think a three

01:57:14.399 --> 01:57:17.270
bedroom goes all the way up to about 900 bucks. So between

01:57:17.270 --> 01:57:19.840
650 to 900 per

01:57:19.840 --> 01:57:25.000
month? Correct. What happens during the summer when classes

01:57:25.000 --> 01:57:25.800
are out? There are 12

01:57:25.800 --> 01:57:28.510
month leases. There are 12 month lease. Are they allowed to

01:57:28.510 --> 01:57:31.359
sublease? No. Okay again

01:57:31.359 --> 01:57:35.090
that's another question. Parking how is one access to the

01:57:35.090 --> 01:57:36.279
parking lot is it a

01:57:36.279 --> 01:57:39.970
gate? I don't know if you can see the conceptual plan and

01:57:39.970 --> 01:57:41.039
this may be a little

01:57:41.039 --> 01:57:44.890
bit confusing what you're looking at now that private drive

01:57:44.890 --> 01:57:46.960
is not there now with

01:57:46.960 --> 01:57:49.640
the construction of this building we will create a private

01:57:49.640 --> 01:57:50.319
drive so if you

01:57:50.319 --> 01:57:52.979
see that opening in the conceptual painting right with a

01:57:52.979 --> 01:57:53.760
car that's where

01:57:53.760 --> 01:57:56.800
the garage is. That's a good point I want to make that no

01:57:56.800 --> 01:57:58.520
traffic or car

01:57:58.520 --> 01:58:02.380
stacking will occur on Hickory or Oak Street it will all

01:58:02.380 --> 01:58:03.640
occur on the private

01:58:03.640 --> 01:58:08.680
drive. Okay now is there a metered gate? Correct there is

01:58:08.680 --> 01:58:09.439
secured access to the garage.

01:58:09.439 --> 01:58:14.239
But not for the retail parking. Excuse me? There's secured

01:58:14.239 --> 01:58:17.970
access to the parking garage for the residents not for the

01:58:17.970 --> 01:58:19.479
retail parking

01:58:19.479 --> 01:58:26.760
spaces. Okay so that's right okay so the gate is further up

01:58:26.760 --> 01:58:28.079
so retail can come in

01:58:28.079 --> 01:58:32.039
and park on the ground level and how many parking spaces

01:58:32.039 --> 01:58:32.760
have you allocated

01:58:32.760 --> 01:58:34.779
to that? We haven't detailed that out yet we're still in

01:58:34.779 --> 01:58:35.640
negotiations with the

01:58:35.640 --> 01:58:39.939
city to see we got to kind of get some bookmarks to see

01:58:39.939 --> 01:58:42.180
what the usage but we

01:58:42.180 --> 01:58:45.409
believe the retail the allotted square footage that we have

01:58:45.409 --> 01:58:46.439
now per code

01:58:46.439 --> 01:58:49.789
requires 18 spaces for the retail we believe have more than

01:58:49.789 --> 01:58:50.399
enough to

01:58:50.399 --> 01:58:53.869
accommodate that. Further to the owner of the space may

01:58:53.869 --> 01:58:56.800
want more. Okay further to

01:58:56.800 --> 01:59:00.760
the retail besides Vortmans how many other storefronts are

01:59:00.760 --> 01:59:02.560
planned? I'm sorry

01:59:02.560 --> 01:59:06.800
besides Vortmans how many retail storefronts? We have two

01:59:06.800 --> 01:59:08.239
we have Vortmans

01:59:08.239 --> 01:59:10.520
and the Subway restaurant is expressed in the interest of

01:59:10.520 --> 01:59:11.680
going back in. So you

01:59:11.680 --> 01:59:14.840
only have two retail? That's all of the space though we

01:59:14.840 --> 01:59:16.359
have two named tenants

01:59:16.359 --> 01:59:19.039
which will occupy 100% of the square footage. So it's not

01:59:19.039 --> 01:59:20.199
four or five six it's just

01:59:20.199 --> 01:59:23.920
two two residents and that's the extent of retail. Correct

01:59:23.920 --> 01:59:24.640
and the both of those

01:59:24.640 --> 01:59:28.239
the extent of retail is about 15,000 square feet which will

01:59:28.239 --> 01:59:29.359
occupy the entire

01:59:29.359 --> 01:59:35.180
Hickory Street frontage. But Subway and Vortmans? Correct.

01:59:35.180 --> 01:59:36.319
Which were displaced

01:59:36.319 --> 01:59:39.210
or will be displaced but coming back in so they're so they

01:59:39.210 --> 01:59:40.279
're already there.

01:59:40.279 --> 01:59:42.939
Correct. And the business and traffic they have there now

01:59:42.939 --> 01:59:43.720
will just come right

01:59:43.720 --> 01:59:47.670
back. Is that your? I believe so. Okay so it's not adding

01:59:47.670 --> 01:59:49.199
anything more or less in

01:59:49.199 --> 01:59:52.880
your opinion as we discussed? Okay thank you.

01:59:52.880 --> 01:59:57.460
Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. Mr. King kind of

01:59:57.460 --> 02:00:00.079
staying with Commissioner

02:00:00.079 --> 02:00:05.479
Hudspeth's concerns about your data regarding based on

02:00:05.479 --> 02:00:07.039
similar apartment

02:00:07.039 --> 02:00:10.710
units and their need for parking. You mentioned that the

02:00:10.710 --> 02:00:11.600
Eagle Street

02:00:11.600 --> 02:00:13.289
apartment I can't think of the name of but you know what I

02:00:13.289 --> 02:00:14.000
'm talking about.

02:00:14.000 --> 02:00:17.949
33 degrees. Right right you mentioned that you got your

02:00:17.949 --> 02:00:19.479
data from the

02:00:19.479 --> 02:00:21.800
due diligence made from the sale of the property is that

02:00:21.800 --> 02:00:22.800
correct? Well we got our

02:00:22.800 --> 02:00:26.479
data made we got our initial data from that packet and we

02:00:26.479 --> 02:00:27.800
confirmed with the

02:00:27.800 --> 02:00:31.789
management company on January 6th of this month. Okay so

02:00:31.789 --> 02:00:33.319
there was two time

02:00:33.319 --> 02:00:36.479
periods there. What was the difference between time periods

02:00:36.479 --> 02:00:37.439
a month? Well the due

02:00:37.439 --> 02:00:39.939
diligence packet went out late last year when the property

02:00:39.939 --> 02:00:40.920
was on the market. Yeah.

02:00:40.920 --> 02:00:43.890
So we confirmed we reconfirmed that information earlier

02:00:43.890 --> 02:00:46.000
this month. Okay and

02:00:46.000 --> 02:00:49.529
I'm gonna get into near you may or may not know it but they

02:00:49.529 --> 02:00:50.720
were selling their

02:00:50.720 --> 02:00:55.079
property is it because they were unable to keep enough

02:00:55.079 --> 02:00:56.880
occupancy to make any

02:00:56.880 --> 02:00:58.720
money do you know? That property is a hundred percent

02:00:58.720 --> 02:00:59.600
occupied they were

02:00:59.600 --> 02:01:02.680
selling the property because Rob alluded to this earlier. A

02:01:02.680 --> 02:01:03.760
typical developers

02:01:03.760 --> 02:01:06.479
build develop a property and then about two years of

02:01:06.479 --> 02:01:08.760
operation they sell it to

02:01:08.760 --> 02:01:12.670
maximize their profit and go on to the next development. We

02:01:12.670 --> 02:01:13.760
don't do that we

02:01:13.760 --> 02:01:16.479
will develop this property on and operate it in perpetuity.

02:01:16.479 --> 02:01:18.479
Okay so as far

02:01:18.479 --> 02:01:21.140
as you know they sold their property to somebody else to

02:01:21.140 --> 02:01:22.279
keep it running is that

02:01:22.279 --> 02:01:26.479
correct? I'm sorry. The people at the Eagle Street

02:01:26.479 --> 02:01:29.260
Department they were selling it not because business was

02:01:29.260 --> 02:01:30.199
bad. No they were

02:01:30.199 --> 02:01:35.119
selling because business is great. Okay okay thanks.

02:01:35.600 --> 02:01:43.159
Commissioner Taylor. Thank you Jim I might be the last one

02:01:43.159 --> 02:01:44.199
up here to ask you

02:01:44.199 --> 02:01:48.079
a question before we move into the public hearing. So could

02:01:48.079 --> 02:01:48.960
you explain a

02:01:48.960 --> 02:01:51.210
little bit more in this this concept plan I think I

02:01:51.210 --> 02:01:52.880
understand it now but you

02:01:52.880 --> 02:01:55.539
show a lot of green space and a corner on a street that

02:01:55.539 --> 02:01:57.000
doesn't currently exist

02:01:57.000 --> 02:01:59.829
could you just walk us through and lay us out where this is

02:01:59.829 --> 02:02:01.600
? Okay well right now

02:02:01.600 --> 02:02:04.890
this site I wish I had a site map but I don't this site is

02:02:04.890 --> 02:02:06.000
right now where it's

02:02:06.000 --> 02:02:10.960
currently occupying the Bortman's lot and if you look at

02:02:10.960 --> 02:02:13.960
this car here that's

02:02:13.960 --> 02:02:18.000
where the coffee shop is right right off the map so this

02:02:18.000 --> 02:02:20.079
private drive will be

02:02:20.079 --> 02:02:24.659
will intersect Oak and Hickory. Actually let me let the

02:02:24.659 --> 02:02:26.840
architect explain it a little bit better than me.

02:02:26.840 --> 02:02:31.520
There was a site plan. I'm sorry yeah. I wanted to explain

02:02:31.520 --> 02:02:36.840
their pretty picture. Staff we have a site plan in your

02:02:36.840 --> 02:02:43.149
module that I think might suffice that it's not in their

02:02:43.149 --> 02:02:45.000
deck. Okay. That the public can see.

02:02:45.000 --> 02:02:49.000
Is that a mouse? Yeah there's a mouse here.

02:03:06.840 --> 02:03:24.840
[Silence]

02:03:24.840 --> 02:03:50.840
138 139 and 143.

02:03:50.840 --> 02:03:54.020
Okay my name is Yao Yu from Humphrey's and Partners

02:03:54.020 --> 02:03:57.239
Architects. I live in 2529

02:03:57.239 --> 02:04:03.840
Scenic Drive Plano, Texas. So on this let me just explain

02:04:03.840 --> 02:04:08.079
how this works. You can

02:04:08.079 --> 02:04:12.640
see my mouse? Yeah. So you know this this is Hickory Street

02:04:12.640 --> 02:04:15.760
and then that's on the

02:04:15.760 --> 02:04:19.729
south and Oak Street on the north. So we have a private

02:04:19.729 --> 02:04:21.359
drive that basically

02:04:21.359 --> 02:04:26.560
connects those two streets and that also act as a service

02:04:26.560 --> 02:04:29.640
drive. So basically if

02:04:29.640 --> 02:04:35.140
you're a student or a retail user you come through that and

02:04:35.140 --> 02:04:35.920
then and then in

02:04:35.920 --> 02:04:41.149
the middle that's where you enter the gate. Not the gated

02:04:41.149 --> 02:04:43.399
garage. So this is how

02:04:43.399 --> 02:04:47.720
you enter it through the service drive. So off that then

02:04:47.720 --> 02:04:49.000
you can enter the

02:04:49.000 --> 02:04:52.689
garage. So you know probably this is the portion that's for

02:04:52.689 --> 02:04:54.439
the retails and then

02:04:54.439 --> 02:04:58.560
you get up the ramp which where we will have a probably a

02:04:58.560 --> 02:05:01.079
gate somewhere here to

02:05:01.079 --> 02:05:06.279
segregate the retail parking versus the residential parking

02:05:06.279 --> 02:05:08.520
. The retails are all

02:05:08.520 --> 02:05:14.069
rated basically on Hickory Street. That's where it is. And

02:05:14.069 --> 02:05:15.479
then on the elevation

02:05:15.479 --> 02:05:31.800
that you see. So the side is not flat. It has about a feet

02:05:31.800 --> 02:05:33.119
of drop. So that's why

02:05:33.119 --> 02:05:38.399
you can see that the side basically goes up. So the corner

02:05:38.399 --> 02:05:41.359
of southeast is really

02:05:41.359 --> 02:05:45.680
the lowest point. That's where we have all the retail

02:05:45.680 --> 02:05:48.199
entries. Basically the

02:05:48.199 --> 02:05:54.520
bookstore and subways. And the so then that other area that

02:05:54.520 --> 02:05:56.479
's that kind of

02:05:56.479 --> 02:05:59.470
becomes a basement heads back into the hills. That's a

02:05:59.470 --> 02:06:00.880
warehouse area for the

02:06:00.880 --> 02:06:04.159
bookstore. Yes that's what we are planning at this moment.

02:06:04.159 --> 02:06:04.920
It's not a

02:06:04.920 --> 02:06:07.890
warehouse area. It's usable, runnable space for the

02:06:07.890 --> 02:06:09.279
bookstore. Right but it's

02:06:09.279 --> 02:06:11.449
not it's not street accessible. It's not like a storefront.

02:06:11.449 --> 02:06:12.479
It's going to be the back of the

02:06:12.479 --> 02:06:16.609
store or something like that. And so this is 17,000 square

02:06:16.609 --> 02:06:17.600
feet of retail. Is that

02:06:17.600 --> 02:06:21.840
something like that? I think it's about 15. 15. And how

02:06:21.840 --> 02:06:24.760
much is existing on the site now? Right now

02:06:24.760 --> 02:06:32.510
Wortmans occupies about 24,000 square feet. Correct. Wort

02:06:32.510 --> 02:06:39.960
mans occupies about 24,000 square feet. They're reducing

02:06:39.960 --> 02:06:43.680
their footprint to about 11. A subway occupies about 1500.

02:06:43.680 --> 02:06:46.279
So they'll roughly be about the same amount. And are there

02:06:46.279 --> 02:06:51.779
any other current existing retail occupants? No. But the

02:06:51.779 --> 02:06:54.560
Vertman store does have the ability to further

02:06:54.560 --> 02:06:58.029
reduce its space and attract additional retailers. We've

02:06:58.029 --> 02:06:59.399
designed the site in such

02:06:59.399 --> 02:07:04.460
a way that it can be subdivided in the future. And a final

02:07:04.460 --> 02:07:06.439
question. Did you

02:07:06.439 --> 02:07:11.479
consider building a 35 foot high building and just removing

02:07:11.479 --> 02:07:14.439
the upper floor? We did. But in order for

02:07:14.439 --> 02:07:16.689
development to be financially feasible, you have to have a

02:07:16.689 --> 02:07:17.399
certain amount of

02:07:17.399 --> 02:07:20.640
scale. And with land prices in the area, that's what's dict

02:07:20.640 --> 02:07:21.800
ating the height of

02:07:21.800 --> 02:07:28.520
the building. Thank you. I've got a couple questions. You

02:07:28.520 --> 02:07:29.319
just mentioned that you've

02:07:29.319 --> 02:07:32.640
got an eight feet rise on the property. Correct. So I guess

02:07:32.640 --> 02:07:33.439
the west end of the

02:07:33.439 --> 02:07:35.640
building essentially on your measurements can be eight feet

02:07:35.640 --> 02:07:36.000
shorter

02:07:36.000 --> 02:07:42.619
than your tallest portion. Correct. Correct. Correct.

02:07:42.619 --> 02:07:45.439
Correct. Correct. Correct. We don't have any details as far

02:07:45.439 --> 02:07:48.359
as your concept plan. So this is the first ones that we've

02:07:48.359 --> 02:07:51.479
got an opportunity to see. Is the tallest part here on the

02:07:51.479 --> 02:07:53.300
corner and then the other parts of the building are

02:07:53.300 --> 02:07:54.399
stepping down because we

02:07:54.399 --> 02:07:57.439
don't have any of those details to review? Correct. The

02:07:57.439 --> 02:07:58.760
tallest part is at the

02:07:58.760 --> 02:08:03.289
southeast corner. The entry, the retail entry of the

02:08:03.289 --> 02:08:04.800
building. Okay. And what

02:08:04.800 --> 02:08:07.770
about the west end of the building? The west end of the

02:08:07.770 --> 02:08:10.899
building? Yes, sir. Up the street? Yes, sir. It's about

02:08:10.899 --> 02:08:15.050
eight foot shorter. But it is a continuous, it's 58 feet,

02:08:15.050 --> 02:08:16.239
it's 58 across the...

02:08:16.239 --> 02:08:21.250
Well, from the point of the base is 50 feet, but the ground

02:08:21.250 --> 02:08:24.039
rises eight feet. So the

02:08:24.039 --> 02:08:27.090
building is 50 feet tall on the west side and it grows to

02:08:27.090 --> 02:08:29.239
58 as you come down the street. You just did it in reverse.

02:08:29.239 --> 02:08:32.239
You're going from the west going east and I'm going east

02:08:32.239 --> 02:08:35.359
going west. Okay.

02:08:35.359 --> 02:08:38.829
What you see in the corner is the highest corner, basically

02:08:38.829 --> 02:08:42.390
. Gotcha. And then the second question, I think one of the

02:08:42.390 --> 02:08:45.760
main elements that was missing is what's the issue with

02:08:45.760 --> 02:08:51.039
the fire apparatus? Right now we know there's an issue and

02:08:51.039 --> 02:08:51.560
we're working with

02:08:51.560 --> 02:08:57.170
the city to address that issue. Adam, yeah, you can speak

02:08:57.170 --> 02:08:58.239
to the actual

02:08:58.239 --> 02:09:00.909
technicalities of the fire apparatus issue. But if we don't

02:09:00.909 --> 02:09:02.640
solve that issue, we cannot

02:09:02.640 --> 02:09:08.079
develop this property. Yeah, basically we were proposing

02:09:08.079 --> 02:09:09.399
either the

02:09:09.399 --> 02:09:15.220
Hickory Street or the Oak Street as a fire apparatus road.

02:09:15.220 --> 02:09:17.359
And the width and the

02:09:17.359 --> 02:09:23.109
distance from basically require a 26 foot wide fire lane.

02:09:23.109 --> 02:09:24.760
And then from that edge of

02:09:24.760 --> 02:09:27.109
that fire lane to the building, there's a minimum

02:09:27.109 --> 02:09:28.840
requirement of 15 feet and a

02:09:28.840 --> 02:09:32.520
maximum requirement of 30 feet. So we meet all that.

02:09:32.520 --> 02:09:35.920
However, the fire marshal right

02:09:35.920 --> 02:09:39.869
now thinks there's going to be street parking on that to

02:09:39.869 --> 02:09:41.279
maybe blocking some

02:09:41.279 --> 02:09:47.090
of the parking, fire truck parking. So she is having some

02:09:47.090 --> 02:09:49.079
reservation on that. But

02:09:49.079 --> 02:09:55.920
to the letter of the fire code, we meet it. There's a small

02:09:55.920 --> 02:09:59.279
sentence at the end that says that the local fire marshal's

02:09:59.279 --> 02:10:01.640
discretion. So that's the part we're working through.

02:10:01.640 --> 02:10:06.100
Okay, so you can't meet it with your private drive area

02:10:06.100 --> 02:10:09.680
then? No. Okay. We've widened the

02:10:09.680 --> 02:10:13.050
private drive 26 feet, but from the edge of the private

02:10:13.050 --> 02:10:14.119
drive to the building is

02:10:14.119 --> 02:10:20.079
10 feet instead of 15. So we're working through that. Okay.

02:10:20.079 --> 02:10:23.520
Looks like I've spoken. We've got some more questions now.

02:10:23.520 --> 02:10:28.029
Commissioner Hodgepitt. Thank you. I just, quick question.

02:10:28.029 --> 02:10:28.239
The

02:10:28.239 --> 02:10:33.319
private drive, is that two-way? Yes. And give me a, help me

02:10:33.319 --> 02:10:35.199
see that. Is that just a,

02:10:35.199 --> 02:10:39.560
is it an alleyway cement on either side? Obviously the

02:10:39.560 --> 02:10:41.159
building's on one side.

02:10:41.159 --> 02:10:45.420
What's on that, what's on the side of the coffee shop there

02:10:45.420 --> 02:10:49.039
? Yeah, landscaping.

02:10:49.840 --> 02:10:56.229
Yes, that's what's shown right now. It's on the landscaping

02:10:56.229 --> 02:11:03.359
plan here. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Commissioner Begg. Thank

02:11:03.359 --> 02:11:06.439
you, Chair. Thank you, Chair. Hopefully this will be the

02:11:06.439 --> 02:11:07.159
last question to

02:11:07.159 --> 02:11:09.289
help from us. But, and this is totally unrelated to the

02:11:09.289 --> 02:11:12.479
type of question we've been having, but it is related to

02:11:12.479 --> 02:11:14.600
something that concerns the city with our renewable

02:11:14.600 --> 02:11:18.319
energy. Okay. I didn't plan. What green construction

02:11:18.319 --> 02:11:21.880
practices are y'all planning on utilizing? We typically

02:11:21.880 --> 02:11:26.800
utilize all the LEED practices. Y'all can speak to more of

02:11:26.800 --> 02:11:29.800
that. We won't be commissioning the building for any sort

02:11:29.800 --> 02:11:32.159
of LEED certification, but we do believe it's good

02:11:32.159 --> 02:11:35.600
operational and maintenance practices to design a renewable

02:11:35.600 --> 02:11:38.260
and energy sustainable building. Okay. Because we will

02:11:38.260 --> 02:11:42.170
operate it in its perpetuity. Using the LEED standards?

02:11:42.170 --> 02:11:44.520
Using LEED standards. Right. L-E-D. Right.

02:11:44.520 --> 02:11:49.069
Got it. Okay. Thanks. Any other questions? Thank you,

02:11:49.069 --> 02:11:54.100
gentlemen. Thank you, guys. Again, this is a public hearing

02:11:54.100 --> 02:11:59.510
. I have a number of cards. I'm going to start. I'm going to

02:11:59.510 --> 02:12:05.119
change the order. We have cards, blue cards to speak, and

02:12:05.119 --> 02:12:08.199
we have white cards that do not wish to speak. So I'm going

02:12:08.199 --> 02:12:10.619
to read those into the record first. So if those people are

02:12:10.619 --> 02:12:13.050
here and want to leave, they at least know their comments

02:12:13.050 --> 02:12:13.640
have been

02:12:14.279 --> 02:12:17.060
brought into the record. And I want to remind the audience,

02:12:17.060 --> 02:12:19.890
as a reminder from staff to me, is that we have two items

02:12:19.890 --> 02:12:22.909
as a commission that we're able to consider on this project

02:12:22.909 --> 02:12:27.050
. One is the height of the building, and the second item is

02:12:27.050 --> 02:12:31.000
in regards to the ratio on the parking. Other than that,

02:12:31.000 --> 02:12:35.720
this project does meet the zoning requirements for this

02:12:35.720 --> 02:12:38.560
area. It can be built there if it was shorter. If the

02:12:38.560 --> 02:12:41.640
parking requirements were met, they could build a project.

02:12:41.640 --> 02:12:44.199
So the two items that we have to, again,

02:12:44.279 --> 02:12:47.420
to consider is the building height and the parking. And

02:12:47.420 --> 02:12:50.949
with that clarification, I'm going to start with, I have

02:12:50.949 --> 02:13:00.590
Bridget Corbett. Okay. These are the ones that aren't. She

02:13:00.590 --> 02:13:05.800
did not wish to speak. She was in opposition to the project

02:13:05.800 --> 02:13:11.939
, and there's no comment as to why. Then there is Penny Coo

02:13:11.939 --> 02:13:13.199
ley.

02:13:13.199 --> 02:13:17.609
She is in opposition, does not wish to speak, and there is

02:13:17.609 --> 02:13:23.010
no additional comment on that. And then there is B. Elaine

02:13:23.010 --> 02:13:32.439
Davis. She does not wish to speak, and she is in opposition

02:13:32.439 --> 02:13:37.640
with no particular comment.

02:13:37.640 --> 02:13:40.880
I think there's one other item is the density. Is that

02:13:40.880 --> 02:13:47.670
correct? So three items instead of two. Okay. My apologies.

02:13:47.670 --> 02:13:50.340
And we have our blue cards. These are individuals that do

02:13:50.340 --> 02:13:52.789
wish to speak. Again, this is a public hearing, so as I

02:13:52.789 --> 02:13:55.239
call you forward, I'm going to go ahead because of the

02:13:55.239 --> 02:13:55.640
number.

02:13:55.640 --> 02:14:00.439
I will give the next person to speak if you'll get ready.

02:14:00.439 --> 02:14:05.140
When you come up, if you will state your name and address

02:14:05.140 --> 02:14:10.060
for the record, you'll have three minutes to speak. Our

02:14:10.060 --> 02:14:15.439
first card will be Darlene Mullenweg at 711 West Oak,

02:14:15.439 --> 02:14:24.760
followed by Mary Anderson.

02:14:24.760 --> 02:14:29.159
Before my time starts, how long do I have? Three minutes.

02:14:29.159 --> 02:14:33.039
All right. Darlene Mullenweg, 711 West Oak Street. I live

02:14:33.039 --> 02:14:36.949
about one and a half blocks from this project. I do not

02:14:36.949 --> 02:14:41.720
have any doubt this will be a very successful housing

02:14:41.720 --> 02:14:43.119
project.

02:14:43.119 --> 02:14:48.180
And they are very liquid, a very good company. I've checked

02:14:48.180 --> 02:14:52.449
them out. I do have a problem with their asking for a

02:14:52.449 --> 02:14:56.979
variance on parking. Their impact study, which the city has

02:14:56.979 --> 02:15:01.560
not done, they left it to the developer to do that, was

02:15:01.560 --> 02:15:06.119
done when they said our peak times at Welch and I believe

02:15:06.119 --> 02:15:08.119
Avenue B.

02:15:08.119 --> 02:15:13.989
I came down there about three weeks ago after school had

02:15:13.989 --> 02:15:20.199
started going east on Hickory, leaving CVS out their back

02:15:20.199 --> 02:15:29.140
way, got the light at B. There was a bus that stops south

02:15:29.140 --> 02:15:31.000
there.

02:15:31.000 --> 02:15:34.529
He turned the corner in front of me. He goes down and stops

02:15:34.529 --> 02:15:38.220
at Fry Street. There's two lanes of traffic that cannot get

02:15:38.220 --> 02:15:43.909
through. I waited for three lights at Fry Street. And we

02:15:43.909 --> 02:15:45.199
don't even have this.

02:15:45.199 --> 02:15:48.979
So my problem is not with their project. It's with the

02:15:48.979 --> 02:15:52.760
traffic that it is going to cause. And he said they're

02:15:52.760 --> 02:15:56.800
going to have bicycles. There are no bicycle lanes on Oak

02:15:56.800 --> 02:16:00.770
and Hickory Street. They don't even start until you get

02:16:00.770 --> 02:16:02.399
west of Avenue B.

02:16:02.399 --> 02:16:05.550
And even if they had bicycle lanes like they do on Alice

02:16:05.550 --> 02:16:08.699
when I went down today and they were using the full lane

02:16:08.699 --> 02:16:12.130
because they're allowed to use the full lane, you can't go

02:16:12.130 --> 02:16:13.079
anywhere.

02:16:13.079 --> 02:16:19.380
So there is a real problem because high schoolers have

02:16:19.380 --> 02:16:24.819
their own cars. So definitely college kids have their own

02:16:24.819 --> 02:16:25.520
cars.

02:16:25.520 --> 02:16:29.949
And maybe their study has shows that in the Austin area,

02:16:29.949 --> 02:16:34.459
because there are a lot of people from around Austin, they

02:16:34.459 --> 02:16:40.120
can take the bus from their little suburbs into the area.

02:16:40.120 --> 02:16:44.739
People here are commuting in. It's too far for them not to

02:16:44.739 --> 02:16:48.690
have a car. So I really object to that. I don't think a

02:16:48.690 --> 02:16:51.319
variant should be allowed for this.

02:16:51.319 --> 02:16:55.459
And I think until we get this complete overlay for Fry

02:16:55.459 --> 02:16:59.850
Street, complete and know what we really need there and a

02:16:59.850 --> 02:17:04.120
traffic impact study, that this cannot go forward.

02:17:04.120 --> 02:17:07.989
And I have nothing against these people. I mean, there's a

02:17:07.989 --> 02:17:11.649
quality company. But I just truly object because of the

02:17:11.649 --> 02:17:12.559
traffic.

02:17:12.559 --> 02:17:16.430
Before you go, we have a question for you. Commissioner

02:17:16.430 --> 02:17:16.719
Beck.

02:17:16.719 --> 02:17:19.379
Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Darlene, for coming down and

02:17:19.379 --> 02:17:22.319
speaking on this. And I appreciate your insights on the

02:17:22.319 --> 02:17:25.239
traffic condition you experienced that day.

02:17:25.239 --> 02:17:28.329
Let me ask you, this traffic is a big concern, but parking

02:17:28.329 --> 02:17:31.360
too. What were parking conditions like that day on Hickory

02:17:31.360 --> 02:17:31.959
and Oak?

02:17:31.959 --> 02:17:37.159
Well, they were parked, you know, in every metered parking

02:17:37.159 --> 02:17:38.680
there was a car.

02:17:38.680 --> 02:17:42.319
I live on Oak Street, which only allows parking on the

02:17:42.319 --> 02:17:45.489
south side of the street. And they say this will have a

02:17:45.489 --> 02:17:46.360
private drive.

02:17:46.360 --> 02:17:51.370
I have a private drive. I can't get out of my private drive

02:17:51.370 --> 02:17:51.760
.

02:17:51.760 --> 02:17:57.260
The other morning, I waited for 16 cars to go past my

02:17:57.260 --> 02:18:00.200
private drive to back out.

02:18:00.200 --> 02:18:04.200
So I can't see that additional traffic is going to improve.

02:18:04.200 --> 02:18:05.079
That's the other thing.

02:18:05.079 --> 02:18:11.739
This is supposed to be a compatible university neighborhood

02:18:11.739 --> 02:18:15.000
overlay. And I don't see this being compatible.

02:18:15.000 --> 02:18:18.229
I don't think there's enough green space in that area. We

02:18:18.229 --> 02:18:24.059
're we're creating the Grand Canyon down there with cars

02:18:24.059 --> 02:18:27.040
instead of watercraft.

02:18:27.040 --> 02:18:30.750
OK, one earth question. Commissioner Roseau. Thank you,

02:18:30.750 --> 02:18:32.399
Chair. Thank you for being here and giving testimony.

02:18:32.399 --> 02:18:35.520
I have a question. You live to the east of campus, correct?

02:18:35.520 --> 02:18:38.840
I do. So you have all the traffic going to the campus.

02:18:38.840 --> 02:18:45.120
All the traffic. In terms of. Not only. Go ahead. Vehicle.

02:18:45.120 --> 02:18:49.079
We have lots of pedestrian traffic. Sure. Sure. Yeah.

02:18:49.079 --> 02:18:52.530
My question is in terms of the staff mentioned it

02:18:52.530 --> 02:18:57.559
previously, the parking induces cars if there's 200 spots,

02:18:57.559 --> 02:18:58.479
then 200 cars.

02:18:58.479 --> 02:19:01.219
No, they can have a parking spot. If you increase that to

02:19:01.219 --> 02:19:05.360
300 cars, do you not see an additional 100 cars then more

02:19:05.360 --> 02:19:05.920
on Oak?

02:19:05.920 --> 02:19:09.610
Or how do you can provide insight to that? Double deck them

02:19:09.610 --> 02:19:11.399
. I don't know where they're going to go.

02:19:11.399 --> 02:19:14.059
Not in terms of parking time, but would would increasing

02:19:14.059 --> 02:19:16.549
the number of parking spots increase traffic on your street

02:19:16.549 --> 02:19:16.840
?

02:19:16.840 --> 02:19:21.799
Of course. But you're in favor of adding parking spots. I'm

02:19:21.799 --> 02:19:24.920
just trying to understand the impact to you personally on

02:19:24.920 --> 02:19:25.280
that.

02:19:25.280 --> 02:19:32.079
Add 300 residents to that one point seven acres. I have an

02:19:32.079 --> 02:19:35.600
80 acre farm. I know how big one point seven acres is.

02:19:35.600 --> 02:19:42.510
It's not big. That is an incredible amount of my pads and

02:19:42.510 --> 02:19:47.520
vehicles for one point seven acres. Sure.

02:19:47.520 --> 02:19:54.659
You know, this this project should be in a high traffic

02:19:54.659 --> 02:19:58.120
urban area. And it's not.

02:19:58.120 --> 02:20:02.239
It is because university is across the street from Hickory,

02:20:02.239 --> 02:20:06.190
but across the street from Oak, it's a residential area,

02:20:06.190 --> 02:20:06.959
folks.

02:20:06.959 --> 02:20:11.979
So this isn't to me compatible, you know, with with the

02:20:11.979 --> 02:20:14.159
size of the project.

02:20:14.159 --> 02:20:18.030
And I know they reduced it. I was here before. And I think

02:20:18.030 --> 02:20:19.959
they did a fairly good job.

02:20:19.959 --> 02:20:24.100
But I'm a tell the city figures out how we can manage the

02:20:24.100 --> 02:20:28.200
vehicles that we have in the parking in this city and do a

02:20:28.200 --> 02:20:31.959
really in depth study and do a traffic impact study.

02:20:31.959 --> 02:20:34.299
I think you would be floored at the amount of traffic that

02:20:34.299 --> 02:20:39.680
's on that street. Sure. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am.

02:20:39.680 --> 02:20:47.399
Have Mary Anderson to be followed by Jeff Paula.

02:20:47.399 --> 02:20:50.909
So only three minutes they get to all right. Mary Anderson,

02:20:50.909 --> 02:20:52.600
nine twenty four West Oak.

02:20:52.600 --> 02:20:56.149
I am against this because of density and parking and

02:20:56.149 --> 02:20:58.889
traffic. They can build a building that is higher than

02:20:58.889 --> 02:21:00.319
anything else now in the area.

02:21:00.319 --> 02:21:03.479
Absolutely the highest thing that will be there because it

02:21:03.479 --> 02:21:04.879
's above what's given.

02:21:04.879 --> 02:21:08.430
But the parking is horrible. I also live on. I live even

02:21:08.430 --> 02:21:10.079
closer than Darlene.

02:21:10.079 --> 02:21:12.840
And it's often that I sit and wait and wait and I can't get

02:21:12.840 --> 02:21:13.239
out.

02:21:13.239 --> 02:21:16.340
And the bicycles do hog the road along with the buses and

02:21:16.340 --> 02:21:19.469
everything else just because you believe they won't park

02:21:19.469 --> 02:21:19.959
there.

02:21:19.959 --> 02:21:23.700
This isn't Austin. Keep calling us UT. It's UNT. I work at

02:21:23.700 --> 02:21:26.239
a university. I won't specify.

02:21:26.239 --> 02:21:29.680
But students like their cars. They need to get to work so

02:21:29.680 --> 02:21:31.280
they can pay the bills.

02:21:31.280 --> 02:21:33.479
So not only they go to class, they're not always partying.

02:21:33.479 --> 02:21:35.399
Believe it or not, they actually work to pay.

02:21:35.399 --> 02:21:38.200
So they need a car to get to work and a car to get home.

02:21:38.200 --> 02:21:40.540
And the girlfriends and the boyfriends come over and there

02:21:40.540 --> 02:21:42.639
's no accounting that they only rent to one bed.

02:21:42.639 --> 02:21:45.360
But I, you know, it could be a double bed, right? So there

02:21:45.360 --> 02:21:48.280
could be even more people there. Six hundred people there.

02:21:48.280 --> 02:21:51.659
That's a lot of cars. There are many times I can't get out

02:21:51.659 --> 02:21:53.159
of my house very easily.

02:21:53.159 --> 02:21:56.250
We need to have better than I think or I believe. I want to

02:21:56.250 --> 02:21:58.879
thank you, Mr. Hudsworth, for asking for data.

02:21:58.879 --> 02:22:02.049
I really appreciate that because I'm tired of I believe. I

02:22:02.049 --> 02:22:05.360
'm a scientist. I must show data or I'm left out of here.

02:22:05.360 --> 02:22:08.239
I can believe the moon is made of green cheese, but they

02:22:08.239 --> 02:22:10.040
would laugh me out of science.

02:22:10.040 --> 02:22:12.190
I am laughing at their data because they're not showing it

02:22:12.190 --> 02:22:15.930
proprietary. But believe me, trust me, I've heard that

02:22:15.930 --> 02:22:16.840
before.

02:22:16.840 --> 02:22:21.559
They say that on 33 North Apartments that on January 6th,

02:22:21.559 --> 02:22:23.719
they weren't full. School didn't start till the 21st. I

02:22:23.719 --> 02:22:24.840
know. I teach.

02:22:24.840 --> 02:22:27.600
So that's a joke. They can fill those spaces. They're

02:22:27.600 --> 02:22:30.280
picking their data. It's a phony data set.

02:22:30.280 --> 02:22:33.340
Please have an independent study of traffic, not on the

02:22:33.340 --> 02:22:35.959
summers, not during exam week when the students are home

02:22:35.959 --> 02:22:39.559
studying and only a few come into campus to take things.

02:22:39.559 --> 02:22:41.670
You know, ask some people in the university. They cite the

02:22:41.670 --> 02:22:42.319
university.

02:22:42.319 --> 02:22:44.309
Has there been a piece of paper that says the university

02:22:44.309 --> 02:22:47.280
needs this? The university is in the business of running

02:22:47.280 --> 02:22:48.440
their own housing.

02:22:48.440 --> 02:22:51.229
This is a nice profit making thing. I have no problem. But

02:22:51.229 --> 02:22:54.260
they don't live here. They don't see the traffic I deal

02:22:54.260 --> 02:22:54.680
with.

02:22:54.680 --> 02:22:56.649
They don't see all of that. And there's going to be more

02:22:56.649 --> 02:22:58.649
traffic. I don't care whether you cut down the number of

02:22:58.649 --> 02:22:59.399
parking spaces.

02:22:59.399 --> 02:23:02.559
Just means I'm going to call a tow truck more often so I

02:23:02.559 --> 02:23:04.399
can get out of my driveway.

02:23:04.399 --> 02:23:07.750
And, you know, it's supposed to be an overlay that enhances

02:23:07.750 --> 02:23:11.299
. It's supposed to be a gradual transition. This project is

02:23:11.299 --> 02:23:12.159
neither one.

02:23:12.159 --> 02:23:15.399
Make it smaller. Provide parking. Don't be a burden to your

02:23:15.399 --> 02:23:18.559
neighbors. You can still make a profit. It may not be 200

02:23:18.559 --> 02:23:19.520
percent a year.

02:23:19.520 --> 02:23:22.639
It might only be 20 percent a year, but I'd be pretty happy

02:23:22.639 --> 02:23:23.319
with that.

02:23:23.319 --> 02:23:25.979
And please don't fear that they'll go away. They won't go

02:23:25.979 --> 02:23:27.200
away. They'll come back.

02:23:27.200 --> 02:23:29.290
Somebody else will buy this and put up something else and

02:23:29.290 --> 02:23:32.200
we'll be going through this again. Get it right. Wait until

02:23:32.200 --> 02:23:34.079
we have a decent overlay.

02:23:34.079 --> 02:23:37.399
There is no rush. You know, we don't live in the heart of

02:23:37.399 --> 02:23:41.319
Austin where everything is rush, rush, rush. This is debt.

02:23:41.319 --> 02:23:41.920
Thank you.

02:23:41.920 --> 02:23:48.639
Thank you. Questions? No questions. Thank you, ma'am.

02:23:48.639 --> 02:23:54.760
Jeff Paula to be followed by looks like Kerry McKibbin.

02:23:54.760 --> 02:23:58.280
Jeff Pala from 716 West Oak Street. Thank you all for your

02:23:58.280 --> 02:24:01.840
time being here tonight. This is a really important topic

02:24:01.840 --> 02:24:02.440
for me.

02:24:02.440 --> 02:24:06.440
I am my wife and I are raising our two young children on an

02:24:06.440 --> 02:24:10.209
already busy Oak Street, a highly traveled Oak Street, high

02:24:10.209 --> 02:24:12.319
density of cars, frequent travel.

02:24:12.319 --> 02:24:15.379
I have a hard time getting out of my driveway as well. The

02:24:15.379 --> 02:24:19.120
density of this project is what concerns me most.

02:24:19.120 --> 02:24:22.510
The three hundred and thirty beds and the lack of parking.

02:24:22.510 --> 02:24:26.239
If you live here as you do, if you travel down to that area

02:24:26.239 --> 02:24:28.760
and you try to park, you can't find parking.

02:24:28.760 --> 02:24:30.870
There's no adequate parking and there's no way to say the

02:24:30.870 --> 02:24:33.040
college kids are not going to bring their cars and they're

02:24:33.040 --> 02:24:34.799
going to bike and they're going to Uber.

02:24:34.799 --> 02:24:39.079
That's just not reality. This is just not reality. You know

02:24:39.079 --> 02:24:41.799
, the height of the building. Fine. Looks OK.

02:24:41.799 --> 02:24:45.700
It does have a large lack of green space. I mean, it is it

02:24:45.700 --> 02:24:49.739
is it is concrete jungle, which is not really a good

02:24:49.739 --> 02:24:54.610
transition from the Oak Hickory neighborhood to the

02:24:54.610 --> 02:24:56.760
facility.

02:24:56.760 --> 02:24:59.649
I think many things have already been said, but the density

02:24:59.649 --> 02:25:00.879
is is is disturbing.

02:25:00.879 --> 02:25:04.870
The density is too much and the lack of parking is is laugh

02:25:04.870 --> 02:25:08.799
able. It's inadequate. Thank you.

02:25:08.799 --> 02:25:16.010
No questions. Thank you, sir. Carrie McKibbin, followed by

02:25:16.010 --> 02:25:19.200
Brent at thirteen, fourteen Hickory.

02:25:19.200 --> 02:25:22.409
Can't read your last name there. So Brent will be next.

02:25:22.409 --> 02:25:25.959
Carrie, I'm Kim. I'm Kim McKibbin. And other than Brent, I

02:25:25.959 --> 02:25:29.139
probably have more invested in this anything because I own

02:25:29.139 --> 02:25:31.600
the building in the business at thirteen oh six.

02:25:31.600 --> 02:25:37.440
Wex history. It's pretty interesting how the statistics

02:25:37.440 --> 02:25:40.680
have been presented when the studies have been done.

02:25:40.680 --> 02:25:43.850
Yes, there were lots of concerns about height because they

02:25:43.850 --> 02:25:46.379
'll put my building in the dark most of the time,

02:25:46.379 --> 02:25:49.590
particularly in the winter when it snows real hard. You

02:25:49.590 --> 02:25:52.090
know, that driveway that they're talking about that's two

02:25:52.090 --> 02:25:52.760
lanes wide.

02:25:52.760 --> 02:25:56.299
That's going to be an issue if all I can address is the

02:25:56.299 --> 02:25:59.239
density, the parking and the height.

02:25:59.239 --> 02:26:01.700
Is that basically what we're basically can address whatever

02:26:01.700 --> 02:26:03.440
you like? Those are the things that we can.

02:26:03.440 --> 02:26:06.409
I have spoken to the city council. I came and asked them to

02:26:06.409 --> 02:26:09.219
grant no variances to the five street overlay for any new

02:26:09.219 --> 02:26:12.059
construction in the area for all the reasons that you've

02:26:12.059 --> 02:26:13.159
heard tonight.

02:26:13.159 --> 02:26:17.829
And if you look at the original thing, the purpose and

02:26:17.829 --> 02:26:21.030
intent of the overlay district is to promote the public's

02:26:21.030 --> 02:26:24.809
peace, safety, cleanliness and general welfare for

02:26:24.809 --> 02:26:29.360
community members and patrons of the five street district

02:26:29.360 --> 02:26:32.840
for providing for regulations on off street and remote

02:26:32.840 --> 02:26:33.360
parking.

02:26:33.600 --> 02:26:36.680
The location of solid waste containers and the regulation

02:26:36.680 --> 02:26:40.319
of signs sets back and residential and commercial density.

02:26:41.079 --> 02:26:42.950
This apartment building is going to be denser than just

02:26:42.950 --> 02:26:44.879
about anything we've got out there.

02:26:45.079 --> 02:26:47.909
I'm pleased to know that he has reduced their prices from

02:26:47.909 --> 02:26:50.930
seven hundred ninety nine dollars a month per bedroom to

02:26:50.930 --> 02:26:53.680
what he's saying now was six hundred and fifty.

02:26:53.959 --> 02:26:56.930
I think the initial contact that we had, that was what the

02:26:56.930 --> 02:26:59.559
price was, was seven ninety nine a month.

02:27:00.040 --> 02:27:02.129
And so they've changed their mind on that. That's nice for

02:27:02.129 --> 02:27:02.920
the students.

02:27:04.079 --> 02:27:06.879
Also, the beautiful outlay that you're seeing does not

02:27:06.879 --> 02:27:10.850
include the area buildings when they compare to the five

02:27:10.850 --> 02:27:13.399
street or the sterling complex.

02:27:13.680 --> 02:27:17.120
They have to realize that that was built on an empty block.

02:27:17.559 --> 02:27:20.790
They're wanting to build this building taller than any

02:27:20.790 --> 02:27:24.799
other building that's out there, not on a block by itself,

02:27:24.799 --> 02:27:28.719
but in a block that contains my building, my tenants, our

02:27:28.719 --> 02:27:32.920
neighbors, a house that set up into apartments, a church.

02:27:33.799 --> 02:27:36.680
These are all on that side of the thing.

02:27:36.680 --> 02:27:40.159
So they are not developing by themselves in isolation.

02:27:40.600 --> 02:27:43.120
The impact they're going to have is phenomenal for parking.

02:27:43.600 --> 02:27:46.920
What they're not telling you is that currently there is

02:27:46.920 --> 02:27:51.170
approximately sixty one parking spaces in the Vortman lot,

02:27:51.170 --> 02:27:55.059
in the subway lot and in the adjacent place that used to be

02:27:55.059 --> 02:27:56.440
a sushi place.

02:27:57.079 --> 02:27:58.079
Sixty one spots.

02:27:58.079 --> 02:28:01.229
Now, if they if you take out the additional six public

02:28:01.229 --> 02:28:04.590
places that are going to be in front of the retail entrance

02:28:04.590 --> 02:28:07.159
thing so they can get the cars in and out.

02:28:07.680 --> 02:28:11.540
Plus, then the other six free spots on Oak Street, you've

02:28:11.540 --> 02:28:15.760
got a fairly high number of public parking spaces you're

02:28:15.760 --> 02:28:17.159
going to leave.

02:28:17.479 --> 02:28:19.920
I also have some problems with someone's math here.

02:28:20.639 --> 02:28:24.489
The scale shows twelve thousand seven hundred square feet

02:28:24.489 --> 02:28:28.209
and the current overlay says that for every four hundred

02:28:28.209 --> 02:28:31.840
square feet you have to have one space for commercial.

02:28:32.319 --> 02:28:34.520
That means they're missing thirty one point seventy five

02:28:34.520 --> 02:28:37.200
spaces in addition to what they've already told you.

02:28:41.559 --> 02:28:42.520
Ask me questions.

02:28:43.159 --> 02:28:44.360
I've been here every meeting.

02:28:45.799 --> 02:28:46.440
No questions.

02:28:47.040 --> 02:28:47.520
Thank you, ma'am.

02:28:47.520 --> 02:28:48.040
Thank you.

02:28:49.879 --> 02:28:52.639
Brent, followed by Helen Dewey.

02:28:56.239 --> 02:28:57.319
My name is Brent Erskine.

02:28:57.360 --> 02:29:00.959
I am the owner of Burtman's thirteen fourteen West Hickory.

02:29:02.559 --> 02:29:05.600
I do understand that there is a parking issue.

02:29:06.040 --> 02:29:08.700
I'm partners in eight other stores across the country and I

02:29:08.700 --> 02:29:11.600
can assure you there is a parking issue at every single one

02:29:11.600 --> 02:29:14.239
of those being next to a university of that size.

02:29:14.239 --> 02:29:16.899
That is what comes with the territory and living that close

02:29:16.899 --> 02:29:17.760
to a university.

02:29:19.280 --> 02:29:21.200
I will say, though, at six a.m.

02:29:21.319 --> 02:29:23.979
when I get to work in the mornings and you go down Oak,

02:29:23.979 --> 02:29:26.940
there are no cars parked along the street with the

02:29:26.940 --> 02:29:30.059
exception of some of the small houses that have been

02:29:30.059 --> 02:29:32.479
chopped up by some of their neighbors and turns into

02:29:32.479 --> 02:29:33.479
apartment complexes.

02:29:34.559 --> 02:29:36.709
That's the only place that you'll see cars parked along the

02:29:36.709 --> 02:29:37.360
street.

02:29:37.680 --> 02:29:40.000
So the students that are living in the youth center that

02:29:40.000 --> 02:29:42.700
live in the youth center are not parking along the street

02:29:42.700 --> 02:29:44.840
when they're in their beds at six a.m.

02:29:44.840 --> 02:29:46.879
because we all know kids are in their beds at six a.m.

02:29:46.879 --> 02:29:48.000
They're not getting up early.

02:29:49.440 --> 02:29:52.409
I will also say that as an employer of over one hundred

02:29:52.409 --> 02:29:57.409
students, there are many of those students that do not have

02:29:57.409 --> 02:29:58.239
cars.

02:29:58.239 --> 02:30:01.360
I know that it's hard to fathom coming from many of us that

02:30:01.360 --> 02:30:04.639
are probably middle class that most kids have cars, but we

02:30:04.639 --> 02:30:07.780
do have several employees that don't have vehicles that

02:30:07.780 --> 02:30:11.069
they carpool with their friends and they do live in student

02:30:11.069 --> 02:30:14.219
student housing complexes even farther away from youth

02:30:14.219 --> 02:30:16.760
center or thirty three degrees north.

02:30:17.319 --> 02:30:20.079
They carpool from some of the ones out by Chuck E. Cheese.

02:30:20.319 --> 02:30:24.579
So that is not maybe as uncommon coming from the middle

02:30:24.579 --> 02:30:28.879
class family that every kid has a car as UNT is not the

02:30:28.879 --> 02:30:32.239
most expensive place to go to school.

02:30:32.239 --> 02:30:34.239
And there are other kids of other demographics going to

02:30:34.239 --> 02:30:34.680
school.

02:30:36.799 --> 02:30:39.680
Those are the comments that I had a question before you go.

02:30:39.920 --> 02:30:40.639
Commissioner Beck.

02:30:40.680 --> 02:30:41.239
Thank you, Chair.

02:30:41.719 --> 02:30:43.629
These people that work for you, though, they live in them,

02:30:43.629 --> 02:30:44.079
right?

02:30:44.319 --> 02:30:47.319
So their parents do not live in didn't know.

02:30:47.760 --> 02:30:50.420
Okay, they live in didn't because they go to school and

02:30:50.420 --> 02:30:50.920
didn't.

02:30:51.879 --> 02:30:55.280
Okay, but they do not live in didn't with their parents.

02:30:55.280 --> 02:30:58.000
They live in some of these student apartment complexes.

02:30:58.559 --> 02:30:58.879
Gotcha.

02:30:59.000 --> 02:30:59.360
Thank you.

02:30:59.600 --> 02:31:00.000
You're welcome.

02:31:00.879 --> 02:31:01.239
Thank you.

02:31:01.319 --> 02:31:02.520
No other further questions.

02:31:03.120 --> 02:31:05.319
This is a I'm sorry.

02:31:05.440 --> 02:31:06.799
I've got a couple more that just popped up.

02:31:06.840 --> 02:31:07.399
Apologize.

02:31:09.440 --> 02:31:10.079
Commissioner Hudge.

02:31:12.239 --> 02:31:14.920
Yeah, so unique perspective, right?

02:31:14.920 --> 02:31:18.639
So for you, how like what do you look?

02:31:18.639 --> 02:31:19.680
What are the changes?

02:31:20.399 --> 02:31:23.799
How do the changes affect your business?

02:31:23.799 --> 02:31:25.280
What what do you look forward to?

02:31:25.559 --> 02:31:29.100
What what impact do you see coming if this is allowed or if

02:31:29.100 --> 02:31:30.159
it's built?

02:31:30.200 --> 02:31:33.120
I think it cleans up the area as the owner of the property.

02:31:33.360 --> 02:31:35.719
I think it could be enhanced.

02:31:36.319 --> 02:31:39.120
We're at a crossing point to where we either try and sell

02:31:39.120 --> 02:31:41.549
it to somebody that can bring more traffic to the

02:31:41.549 --> 02:31:45.520
businesses in the area by adding beds.

02:31:46.280 --> 02:31:49.250
If I could buy into Mike's coffee, I would definitely love

02:31:49.250 --> 02:31:49.879
to do that.

02:31:49.879 --> 02:31:51.899
And she's going to have 300 new customers sitting right

02:31:51.899 --> 02:31:52.440
next to her.

02:31:53.120 --> 02:31:54.920
I'm sure that their business flow will come up.

02:31:55.239 --> 02:31:58.709
So as a business owner myself, I would be loved to have 300

02:31:58.709 --> 02:32:01.280
new customers right above my business.

02:32:01.639 --> 02:32:02.600
It cleans up the area.

02:32:02.600 --> 02:32:04.819
It makes it look nicer with the newer building, not a

02:32:04.819 --> 02:32:06.159
building that I

02:32:06.159 --> 02:32:09.010
know some people want to say that it's historic, but it's

02:32:09.010 --> 02:32:11.639
actually been added on to six different times.

02:32:11.639 --> 02:32:15.450
And it has it's there's nothing historic about it besides

02:32:15.450 --> 02:32:18.819
the name itself, which is which we want to preserve as

02:32:18.819 --> 02:32:19.920
times change.

02:32:19.920 --> 02:32:21.479
And we are not what Mr.

02:32:21.479 --> 02:32:25.079
Verman had it with all of the fine gifts in China that he

02:32:25.079 --> 02:32:26.799
used to have in there.

02:32:26.959 --> 02:32:27.799
The times have changed.

02:32:27.799 --> 02:32:30.219
We have to condense down in order to make sure that we

02:32:30.219 --> 02:32:31.280
ensure viability.

02:32:32.000 --> 02:32:33.120
Big boxes out.

02:32:33.120 --> 02:32:35.239
I look at what Walmart you can go across the board.

02:32:35.239 --> 02:32:36.360
They're getting smaller.

02:32:36.360 --> 02:32:39.159
We have to do the same thing to make sure that we maintain

02:32:39.159 --> 02:32:41.799
our business and the vermin's name continues on.

02:32:43.719 --> 02:32:47.239
If I may continue and how are your sales?

02:32:48.680 --> 02:32:51.079
Great. They're down.

02:32:51.319 --> 02:32:55.760
We took it over and we took it over in 2013 and our sales

02:32:55.760 --> 02:32:58.409
have done nothing but grown every year since we've taken it

02:32:58.409 --> 02:32:58.639
over.

02:32:59.319 --> 02:33:01.479
And you attribute that to more students more.

02:33:01.799 --> 02:33:05.010
It's it's easily accessible that that sort of thing that it

02:33:05.010 --> 02:33:06.840
's always it's been in the same location.

02:33:06.840 --> 02:33:08.440
So location doesn't have anything to do with it.

02:33:09.079 --> 02:33:11.500
I'd like you to think that it was myself and my staff was

02:33:11.500 --> 02:33:13.040
what I'd like to think.

02:33:13.920 --> 02:33:16.959
And having an owner actually on site and giving a personal

02:33:16.959 --> 02:33:20.239
customer experience is what we like to hope.

02:33:20.879 --> 02:33:22.250
Even some of the folks that are opposing, I think they'd

02:33:22.250 --> 02:33:23.760
say that we're friendly neighbors.

02:33:23.920 --> 02:33:25.280
OK. And one last thing.

02:33:25.319 --> 02:33:28.920
Sure. So the parking in back that that's a valid point.

02:33:28.959 --> 02:33:30.920
What is give me a day in the life of your parking lot.

02:33:30.959 --> 02:33:33.719
Sure. It's it's it's during the first week of school, we

02:33:33.719 --> 02:33:35.559
actually pay people to sit out in the parking lot to keep

02:33:35.559 --> 02:33:36.719
customers from parking there.

02:33:37.319 --> 02:33:39.479
It's definitely not you send our custom people parking in

02:33:39.479 --> 02:33:40.079
our lot.

02:33:40.399 --> 02:33:42.040
It's commuters that are parking in our lot.

02:33:42.959 --> 02:33:44.600
So we definitely that is a problem.

02:33:44.639 --> 02:33:45.719
There's no doubt about that.

02:33:46.559 --> 02:33:50.200
But I don't know that this is going to add to the problem.

02:33:50.200 --> 02:33:51.440
They say that it adds to it.

02:33:51.479 --> 02:33:52.959
But there's nowhere else to park on the street.

02:33:53.159 --> 02:33:56.129
There's nowhere else that can't get any worse than what it

02:33:56.129 --> 02:33:56.520
is.

02:33:56.600 --> 02:34:00.120
There's already parking on every single space.

02:34:00.760 --> 02:34:04.899
During school hours outside of school hours, you're not it

02:34:04.899 --> 02:34:06.520
's like I said, 6 a.m.

02:34:06.559 --> 02:34:08.200
I have a video on my phone at 6 a.m.

02:34:08.239 --> 02:34:09.809
I drove down there, took video, probably shouldn't have

02:34:09.809 --> 02:34:10.360
been doing it.

02:34:10.399 --> 02:34:13.059
But there's there's nothing there's no cars parked there

02:34:13.059 --> 02:34:15.239
except that these chopped up apartments.

02:34:15.920 --> 02:34:18.079
So is it bad?

02:34:18.120 --> 02:34:20.430
Yes. But it's the commuters coming into town to go to class

02:34:20.430 --> 02:34:22.360
there, not the people who live in the area.

02:34:23.159 --> 02:34:24.760
Thank you. Another question for you.

02:34:25.319 --> 02:34:26.559
And we didn't get for the record.

02:34:26.600 --> 02:34:28.239
Were you in favor or opposed?

02:34:28.680 --> 02:34:29.639
In favor. In favor.

02:34:29.680 --> 02:34:31.239
Thank you. Commissioner Dudowitz.

02:34:31.799 --> 02:34:33.120
Some more clarification, please.

02:34:33.520 --> 02:34:35.040
Your business is existing today.

02:34:35.719 --> 02:34:36.719
Do you own the property?

02:34:36.799 --> 02:34:37.120
Yes, sir.

02:34:37.920 --> 02:34:41.680
And you're in favor of selling it to the developer?

02:34:42.200 --> 02:34:43.040
Yes, sir. We will sell it.

02:34:43.040 --> 02:34:44.959
We will sell the property to the developer.

02:34:45.479 --> 02:34:47.719
We will move off.

02:34:47.840 --> 02:34:50.500
We will move to a temporary location, much like the

02:34:50.500 --> 02:34:53.120
university bookstore did recently with their renovations.

02:34:53.520 --> 02:34:56.559
We will then move back into the new location where we will

02:34:56.559 --> 02:34:58.680
own our space in that building.

02:34:59.920 --> 02:35:00.600
Lease it or own it?

02:35:00.879 --> 02:35:01.200
Own it.

02:35:01.600 --> 02:35:03.879
OK. So you'll cut it out and you'll own the space.

02:35:04.120 --> 02:35:07.309
Yes, sir. So the nearly 12,000 square feet on that bottom

02:35:07.309 --> 02:35:09.520
floor, we will continue to own that space.

02:35:09.719 --> 02:35:13.239
And just as an aside, I drive these streets here just to

02:35:13.239 --> 02:35:17.200
avoid the backup on university that's going on in this town

02:35:17.200 --> 02:35:17.559
.

02:35:17.600 --> 02:35:20.200
But I've been there early in the morning and late at night.

02:35:20.399 --> 02:35:22.649
There is some traffic, but it's not like it is during the

02:35:22.649 --> 02:35:23.040
day.

02:35:23.079 --> 02:35:25.159
I admit it's kind of crazy there.

02:35:25.520 --> 02:35:29.510
But you are testifying, though, that it's commuter traffic

02:35:29.510 --> 02:35:32.200
more so than the residential traffic.

02:35:32.239 --> 02:35:35.479
That's kind of what I want to make sure that I'm seeing and

02:35:35.479 --> 02:35:39.120
hearing because the residents obviously are impacted by

02:35:39.120 --> 02:35:43.360
commuter traffic, parking in their driveways and whatnot.

02:35:43.799 --> 02:35:46.159
But that exists now even without this.

02:35:46.399 --> 02:35:48.159
And it has been for how long have you been there?

02:35:49.120 --> 02:35:52.399
I opened up a small spot called Campus Bookstore right next

02:35:52.399 --> 02:35:56.159
to back in the day at Point Bank back in November 2007.

02:35:56.600 --> 02:35:58.950
So I've been in that community parking on that street,

02:35:58.950 --> 02:36:02.280
especially when we were there because we had no parking at

02:36:02.280 --> 02:36:03.360
that location.

02:36:03.360 --> 02:36:04.959
There was zero parking for our space.

02:36:06.520 --> 02:36:08.559
And I would park along that street.

02:36:08.559 --> 02:36:11.659
And in the mornings, there's plenty of parking there in the

02:36:11.659 --> 02:36:13.200
mornings at 6, 7 a.m.

02:36:13.920 --> 02:36:17.180
And I understand with 300 more potential customers, that's

02:36:17.180 --> 02:36:18.159
a good thing.

02:36:18.719 --> 02:36:19.920
That's never a bad thing for business.

02:36:20.120 --> 02:36:21.899
If you have a business, you would like to have more

02:36:21.899 --> 02:36:23.120
customers, obviously.

02:36:23.120 --> 02:36:23.680
There's no question.

02:36:23.680 --> 02:36:26.180
And I think that several of the business owners down there

02:36:26.180 --> 02:36:27.399
have said the same thing.

02:36:27.600 --> 02:36:28.000
I'm sorry?

02:36:28.360 --> 02:36:28.760
Yes.

02:36:28.840 --> 02:36:31.000
Businesses would prefer to have more customers.

02:36:31.200 --> 02:36:31.479
Thank you.

02:36:33.479 --> 02:36:34.280
No further questions.

02:36:34.319 --> 02:36:34.840
Thank you, sir.

02:36:36.440 --> 02:36:39.100
Helen Dewey, followed by Michelle Lin, and then I have two

02:36:39.100 --> 02:36:40.200
more cards.

02:36:40.200 --> 02:36:41.399
This is a public hearing.

02:36:41.799 --> 02:36:44.879
So if you would like to speak, please fill out a card and

02:36:44.879 --> 02:36:46.159
bring that down.

02:36:46.159 --> 02:36:48.209
Or if you want to come speak afterwards, you'll need to

02:36:48.209 --> 02:36:50.040
make sure and fill out a card before you leave.

02:36:50.920 --> 02:36:51.440
Thank you, Helen.

02:36:52.120 --> 02:36:54.040
My name is Helen Dewey Rykovsky.

02:36:54.079 --> 02:36:56.319
I reside at 73 West Oak Street.

02:36:56.639 --> 02:37:01.600
I do work at that named university at UNT, but I also work

02:37:01.600 --> 02:37:04.159
in Dallas and I also work at First United Methodist Church.

02:37:04.440 --> 02:37:08.559
So I'm very typical of a lot of people at UNT where we live

02:37:08.559 --> 02:37:08.920
.

02:37:09.280 --> 02:37:12.079
I walk to the university when I don't have to go to one of

02:37:12.079 --> 02:37:13.120
my other jobs.

02:37:13.120 --> 02:37:15.780
When I have to go to one of my other jobs, then I need to

02:37:15.780 --> 02:37:17.399
have my parking space on campus.

02:37:17.600 --> 02:37:19.780
And then I drive to that one and then I drive to that one

02:37:19.780 --> 02:37:21.239
and then I drive home again.

02:37:21.680 --> 02:37:25.149
So one of the things that I'm speaking against on this

02:37:25.149 --> 02:37:30.319
proposal is because not only the density and the parking,

02:37:31.000 --> 02:37:35.159
I really appreciated the question, Mr. Rosell, about if we

02:37:35.159 --> 02:37:41.680
're opposed to how much traffic problem there is

02:37:41.680 --> 02:37:44.799
and how much parking problem there is, why would we want to

02:37:44.799 --> 02:37:50.319
say, please don't have any variances if there are 300 beds,

02:37:50.719 --> 02:37:55.120
then why have 300 vehicles parked?

02:37:55.680 --> 02:37:58.340
But what we need is a place for everything and everything

02:37:58.340 --> 02:37:59.280
in its place.

02:37:59.719 --> 02:38:03.709
If we have more people living in that area, we will have

02:38:03.709 --> 02:38:06.639
more cars, whether they're owned or whether they're the

02:38:06.639 --> 02:38:07.360
visitors.

02:38:08.000 --> 02:38:11.040
And if we don't have a spot for each one of those cars, yes

02:38:11.040 --> 02:38:12.639
, we'll have more traffic,

02:38:12.719 --> 02:38:15.790
but then that traffic will be congested and not know where

02:38:15.790 --> 02:38:16.319
to go.

02:38:16.799 --> 02:38:19.520
So we hope that you will not change.

02:38:19.559 --> 02:38:21.280
We will not have any variances.

02:38:21.639 --> 02:38:25.079
We appreciate the changes that the company has made by

02:38:25.079 --> 02:38:27.079
listening to the neighbors.

02:38:27.559 --> 02:38:30.600
And perhaps more changes could be made because these sound

02:38:30.600 --> 02:38:32.680
like they would be very good neighbors.

02:38:33.000 --> 02:38:36.159
We do want development, but as has been said, this is

02:38:36.159 --> 02:38:38.840
development for students at the university.

02:38:39.239 --> 02:38:44.600
But that is only one of the four sides of this development.

02:38:45.159 --> 02:38:48.600
And we neighbors on the east side, the more traffic that

02:38:48.600 --> 02:38:51.559
comes down Oak Street and back through Hickory Street,

02:38:51.920 --> 02:38:54.040
those streets are not built for that.

02:38:54.360 --> 02:38:58.600
The city had a survey for parking in 1999.

02:38:59.559 --> 02:39:00.840
Yes, 1999.

02:39:01.120 --> 02:39:04.799
And the city survey at that time found there were 21,000

02:39:04.799 --> 02:39:07.360
trips down Oak Street and back Hickory Street.

02:39:07.959 --> 02:39:13.670
The I'm looking for the actual statistics because Mr. Hudsb

02:39:13.670 --> 02:39:16.239
eth will want to know exactly which is exactly right.

02:39:16.559 --> 02:39:17.440
What it says here.

02:39:17.440 --> 02:39:22.799
So the the city decides that engineering standards used by

02:39:22.799 --> 02:39:24.040
the city rate,

02:39:24.319 --> 02:39:28.100
the maximum level of service for four lane divided couplet

02:39:28.100 --> 02:39:31.120
at about 21,000 trips per day.

02:39:31.520 --> 02:39:35.719
So as you can see in 1999, we were already at the maximum

02:39:35.719 --> 02:39:39.680
amount of traffic that we could tolerate properly going up

02:39:39.680 --> 02:39:40.399
and down that street.

02:39:40.399 --> 02:39:41.959
It's only grown since then.

02:39:42.440 --> 02:39:45.840
So the density of the project is a difficulty for us.

02:39:46.200 --> 02:39:51.420
It adds the parking and the and the traffic itself is a

02:39:51.420 --> 02:39:53.159
difficulty.

02:39:53.760 --> 02:39:56.799
Perhaps some of the changes that could be looked at from

02:39:56.799 --> 02:40:00.370
this point on, maybe with the proper one to one ratio of

02:40:00.370 --> 02:40:01.159
parking,

02:40:01.479 --> 02:40:04.920
maybe there would be more revenue for the business to go

02:40:04.920 --> 02:40:09.350
ahead and sell that parking to commuters or to others that

02:40:09.350 --> 02:40:12.239
are busy on our our neighborhood streets.

02:40:12.600 --> 02:40:13.600
Do you have any questions?

02:40:13.639 --> 02:40:14.639
Do you have a question for you?

02:40:14.639 --> 02:40:15.520
Commissioner Oselle.

02:40:15.680 --> 02:40:16.120
Thank you, sir.

02:40:17.559 --> 02:40:21.040
I appreciate your insight to what's going on here.

02:40:21.040 --> 02:40:24.010
I have a question. You speak about traffic, but if I

02:40:24.010 --> 02:40:26.889
understood you correctly, you're OK with the increased

02:40:26.889 --> 02:40:29.659
traffic or that's amenable as long as they have some place

02:40:29.659 --> 02:40:30.200
to park.

02:40:31.440 --> 02:40:32.920
I would not say it that way.

02:40:33.040 --> 02:40:34.159
If I might restate it.

02:40:34.200 --> 02:40:34.479
Sure.

02:40:34.719 --> 02:40:38.370
We are troubled by the amount of traffic, but the amount of

02:40:38.370 --> 02:40:42.319
traffic will only be worsened if there are not parking

02:40:42.319 --> 02:40:45.600
spaces for every car that's legal to be living in the

02:40:45.600 --> 02:40:46.559
neighborhood.

02:40:47.120 --> 02:40:50.010
And that I know not everyone owns a car, but the students

02:40:50.010 --> 02:40:53.000
that I teach at University of North Texas, they drive

02:40:53.000 --> 02:40:55.000
everywhere for employment.

02:40:55.360 --> 02:40:58.149
And so the students that I know from from full scholarship

02:40:58.149 --> 02:41:01.680
students to whomever, whether they're middle class or not,

02:41:01.680 --> 02:41:03.280
there are cars.

02:41:03.760 --> 02:41:05.879
And so those cars need to have a place.

02:41:06.120 --> 02:41:10.459
So the traffic is difficult and it would behoove the city

02:41:10.459 --> 02:41:14.610
to look at on the west side how we can have more access to

02:41:14.610 --> 02:41:17.959
the university because it's growing.

02:41:17.959 --> 02:41:18.799
And that's a good thing.

02:41:19.360 --> 02:41:23.079
But from the east, that's that's our neighborhood.

02:41:23.239 --> 02:41:25.639
And it has as much traffic as it can handle.

02:41:26.040 --> 02:41:28.700
And if you don't have parking spaces for the other cars

02:41:28.700 --> 02:41:31.420
that will make because they're parking in front of our

02:41:31.420 --> 02:41:32.600
houses every day.

02:41:33.319 --> 02:41:35.040
And it's before eight in the morning.

02:41:35.440 --> 02:41:38.319
And those are the people that can't put the money in the

02:41:38.319 --> 02:41:41.469
meter on Hickory Street or don't have the parking permit on

02:41:41.469 --> 02:41:42.399
the campus.

02:41:43.159 --> 02:41:43.799
Sure. Thank you.

02:41:45.159 --> 02:41:45.920
One other question.

02:41:46.000 --> 02:41:46.920
Commissioner Hatchbuth.

02:41:47.319 --> 02:41:49.159
Thank you. So just real quick question.

02:41:49.200 --> 02:41:51.979
So when you're what what are your times that you're

02:41:51.979 --> 02:41:55.379
normally driving to Dallas or what have you observed during

02:41:55.379 --> 02:41:57.399
those times that you're driving?

02:41:58.719 --> 02:42:01.239
My day job is in the College of Music.

02:42:01.280 --> 02:42:03.399
My night job is at the Dallas Opera.

02:42:03.719 --> 02:42:09.040
And so I'm often leaving the UNT area about five thirty.

02:42:09.200 --> 02:42:12.110
Well often six o'clock until we get into further rehearsals

02:42:12.110 --> 02:42:13.120
at five thirty.

02:42:13.639 --> 02:42:18.360
The traffic coming north is amazing to see from Dallas.

02:42:18.639 --> 02:42:23.090
So there is traffic in surges moving in and out of our

02:42:23.090 --> 02:42:24.440
community.

02:42:24.799 --> 02:42:27.459
It's like the people who do morning classes the people who

02:42:27.459 --> 02:42:30.069
do afternoon classes the commuters who come up in the

02:42:30.069 --> 02:42:33.600
evening and then go back or stay with friends.

02:42:33.959 --> 02:42:35.940
Because sometimes they stay a few days and then they go

02:42:35.940 --> 02:42:36.360
back.

02:42:36.479 --> 02:42:39.709
So but you're leaving the Frost Street area around five or

02:42:39.709 --> 02:42:40.559
so is that.

02:42:40.639 --> 02:42:41.399
Did I get that right.

02:42:41.440 --> 02:42:43.159
Five five five thirty very often.

02:42:43.200 --> 02:42:44.399
And what is the traffic like then.

02:42:45.120 --> 02:42:46.000
It's awful.

02:42:46.440 --> 02:42:47.000
So give me it.

02:42:47.040 --> 02:42:49.040
So you're traveling on Hickory.

02:42:49.200 --> 02:42:49.600
Yes.

02:42:49.840 --> 02:42:52.520
And so Hickory do you hit the Frost Street light.

02:42:52.559 --> 02:42:54.860
How many times do you have to wait or give me give me a day

02:42:54.860 --> 02:42:55.680
in the life of.

02:42:57.479 --> 02:42:58.159
Drive anywhere.

02:42:58.399 --> 02:42:59.399
Lunchtime.

02:42:59.520 --> 02:43:01.319
You'll wait at least three lights.

02:43:01.399 --> 02:43:01.600
OK.

02:43:02.159 --> 02:43:05.479
Thank.

02:43:05.520 --> 02:43:06.840
I'm just my comment.

02:43:07.440 --> 02:43:07.959
Commissioner.

02:43:08.000 --> 02:43:11.409
That is that anywhere in Denton from four thirty to six

02:43:11.409 --> 02:43:13.079
thirty is a nightmare.

02:43:13.120 --> 02:43:15.799
I mean even loop 288 takes forever to get around.

02:43:16.799 --> 02:43:18.200
It's what's happening here.

02:43:18.239 --> 02:43:20.200
I mean price is unusual with that.

02:43:20.239 --> 02:43:21.239
But so where are the other place.

02:43:21.280 --> 02:43:24.010
We have a lot of pedestrians too as you know we have a very

02:43:24.010 --> 02:43:27.200
nice neighborhood to walk through and to get to the square.

02:43:27.239 --> 02:43:29.239
And it's lovely to see that amount of traffic.

02:43:29.280 --> 02:43:33.420
And so the density of this having more cars more people

02:43:33.420 --> 02:43:37.920
there that'd be great if more people are walking downtown

02:43:37.920 --> 02:43:39.239
and back again.

02:43:39.520 --> 02:43:42.319
But more cars parked on the street even later at night

02:43:42.319 --> 02:43:45.879
because if there are not enough spots in the indoor parking

02:43:45.879 --> 02:43:48.690
garage then those residents are going to be parking on the

02:43:48.690 --> 02:43:51.879
streets when the students don't need to the commuter

02:43:51.879 --> 02:43:52.360
students don't need to.

02:43:52.639 --> 02:43:55.680
And again that's more cars on the street.

02:43:55.719 --> 02:43:59.360
It's a little bit more danger for the pedestrians.

02:43:59.399 --> 02:44:02.510
You know you're crossing streets and you're walking

02:44:02.510 --> 02:44:05.639
downtown and it's when we try to back out or pull out of

02:44:05.639 --> 02:44:08.760
our driveways on Oak Street or on Hickory Street it's

02:44:08.760 --> 02:44:12.209
really scary because you have to look past the parked cars

02:44:12.209 --> 02:44:14.479
wait for the gap in the red light.

02:44:14.520 --> 02:44:17.559
And then you know so we'll just have more and more of that

02:44:17.559 --> 02:44:20.680
if we don't have those parked cars off the street.

02:44:20.719 --> 02:44:26.680
I see no further questions. Thank you.

02:44:26.719 --> 02:44:32.319
Michelle Lin followed by I can't read the first name last

02:44:32.319 --> 02:44:33.680
name Hall.

02:44:33.719 --> 02:44:37.840
Good evening everyone I'm Michelle Lin I'm at 1401 Egan

02:44:37.840 --> 02:44:41.319
Street in Denton and I'm here tonight because our town is

02:44:41.319 --> 02:44:43.680
growing and this is a good thing.

02:44:43.719 --> 02:44:51.250
I support this project in certain ways. I'm glad someone is

02:44:51.250 --> 02:44:53.030
interested in a strong new high quality development and I

02:44:53.030 --> 02:44:53.680
like mixed use.

02:44:53.719 --> 02:44:57.739
But your job as commissioners is your highest goal is going

02:44:57.739 --> 02:45:00.680
to be to bring smart growth to our town.

02:45:00.719 --> 02:45:04.440
The difference between being open for business and welcome

02:45:04.440 --> 02:45:08.040
for growth and allowing developers to rewrite our city's

02:45:08.040 --> 02:45:09.680
comprehensive plan.

02:45:09.719 --> 02:45:14.350
To their own desires that 2030 plan I look at the names in

02:45:14.350 --> 02:45:18.680
this commission and I see Hutzpeth and Roselle and strange

02:45:18.680 --> 02:45:21.340
and Briggle and these are all families who were involved

02:45:21.340 --> 02:45:22.680
with this plan at one point.

02:45:22.719 --> 02:45:26.170
Our city decided after more than a year of really intense

02:45:26.170 --> 02:45:29.750
collaboration from people in every part of the city that

02:45:29.750 --> 02:45:32.680
this is going to be our comprehensive plan.

02:45:32.719 --> 02:45:37.680
I urge you to think about potential parking problems and

02:45:37.680 --> 02:45:40.680
neighborhood compatibility.

02:45:40.719 --> 02:45:45.870
I am not against this building. I'm against making the

02:45:45.870 --> 02:45:47.680
parking situation even worse.

02:45:47.719 --> 02:45:50.379
I'm against something that is going to detract

02:45:50.379 --> 02:45:53.319
significantly from the quality of life for the homeowners

02:45:53.319 --> 02:45:55.680
in the university compatibility area.

02:45:55.719 --> 02:45:59.750
Mr. Beck commented about tenants and where they will put

02:45:59.750 --> 02:46:03.899
their cars and I'm pretty sure that 18 retail spots would

02:46:03.899 --> 02:46:07.120
be used up by the people who are working in these stores

02:46:07.120 --> 02:46:08.680
let alone the customers.

02:46:08.719 --> 02:46:12.430
Personally I'm very vested in this area. I live a couple

02:46:12.430 --> 02:46:15.680
blocks north of it in the university compatibility area.

02:46:15.719 --> 02:46:19.260
My homestead is there. I own several rental properties in

02:46:19.260 --> 02:46:21.649
the area and I will say that every single tenant I have

02:46:21.649 --> 02:46:23.680
ever had has had a car and parked there.

02:46:23.719 --> 02:46:26.610
And when there are more than two people or three people in

02:46:26.610 --> 02:46:28.680
the house there's two or three cars.

02:46:28.719 --> 02:46:32.680
So this is a pretty serious concern to me.

02:46:32.719 --> 02:46:35.930
I would be happy with this project if it did follow the

02:46:35.930 --> 02:46:38.680
2030 comprehensive city plan.

02:46:38.719 --> 02:46:39.680
Thank you.

02:46:39.719 --> 02:46:43.680
Thank you.

02:46:43.719 --> 02:46:48.899
Next speaker, I can't read the name. Last name is Hall

02:46:48.899 --> 02:46:50.680
followed by Jay West.

02:46:50.719 --> 02:46:54.659
Again this is a public hearing. I've got two cards left so

02:46:54.659 --> 02:46:57.180
if you would like to speak please fill out a card, the blue

02:46:57.180 --> 02:47:00.899
card or if you'd like to speak a white card as if you just

02:47:00.899 --> 02:47:03.940
would like to record your opposition or support for the

02:47:03.940 --> 02:47:05.680
record and not speak.

02:47:05.719 --> 02:47:06.680
Thank you Mr. Hall.

02:47:06.719 --> 02:47:09.680
Hello ladies and gentlemen of the commission.

02:47:09.719 --> 02:47:17.680
Lucas Hall, 815 Cresto Place in Denton.

02:47:17.719 --> 02:47:20.840
And I come as a citizen and voter of Denton who lives

02:47:20.840 --> 02:47:24.500
several miles from the Fry Street area and frankly I rarely

02:47:24.500 --> 02:47:25.680
ever drive by.

02:47:25.719 --> 02:47:31.159
But I'm here to object to this proposal as written and I

02:47:31.159 --> 02:47:37.979
would object to any version of the proposal that exceeds or

02:47:37.979 --> 02:47:44.450
requires relaxation of the Fry Street overlay as currently

02:47:44.450 --> 02:47:45.680
written.

02:47:45.719 --> 02:47:51.719
This might sound a little philosophical or not necessarily

02:47:51.719 --> 02:47:57.680
practical but I think as a matter of policy making that

02:47:57.680 --> 02:48:04.770
before a governing body agrees to amend the code,

02:48:04.770 --> 02:48:07.540
especially in this case it's my understanding that the Fry

02:48:07.540 --> 02:48:11.069
Street overlay specifically is the product of a lot of

02:48:11.069 --> 02:48:15.139
community wide collaboration that came about when the other

02:48:15.139 --> 02:48:15.680
developer was here.

02:48:15.719 --> 02:48:21.379
But that code is the product of broad debate, negotiation,

02:48:21.379 --> 02:48:26.489
revision and finally a community, a broad swath of the

02:48:26.489 --> 02:48:31.790
community came to identify that and identify that code as

02:48:31.790 --> 02:48:32.680
law.

02:48:32.719 --> 02:48:37.030
And so it's my suggestion that before you decide to

02:48:37.030 --> 02:48:42.069
recommend to amend the code, whether it's this section or

02:48:42.069 --> 02:48:47.069
any part of the code, to ask yourself, am I satisfying an

02:48:47.069 --> 02:48:50.680
urgent substantial need of the community?

02:48:50.719 --> 02:49:06.739
And I posit that in this case the answer is easily no. It

02:49:06.739 --> 02:49:08.170
will be advantageous for a couple of parties but as the

02:49:08.170 --> 02:49:09.549
nearby residents in the neighborhood have spoken more

02:49:09.549 --> 02:49:11.139
intelligently to the parking density and congestion issues

02:49:11.139 --> 02:49:17.280
than I could, this is not going to satisfy a substantial

02:49:17.280 --> 02:49:20.680
need of the community.

02:49:20.719 --> 02:49:25.760
And so, and this is frankly I just became aware today that

02:49:25.760 --> 02:49:30.799
there's the possibility of this small area plan that I get

02:49:30.799 --> 02:49:35.440
the impression this will be another community based

02:49:35.440 --> 02:49:41.680
discussion, whereby we will perhaps decide as a community

02:49:41.680 --> 02:49:45.139
and not just as a small group of selected interested

02:49:45.139 --> 02:49:50.239
parties how we want to design and organize our physical

02:49:50.239 --> 02:49:50.680
spaces.

02:49:50.719 --> 02:49:53.500
In this case where we live and work. And so just to

02:49:53.500 --> 02:49:57.260
reiterate, I reject this on the basis of it being requiring

02:49:57.260 --> 02:50:01.000
relaxation of the code as written and if the community, the

02:50:01.000 --> 02:50:04.680
greater community later on decides to amend the code in the

02:50:04.680 --> 02:50:08.680
small plan, then so be it. Thank you.

02:50:08.719 --> 02:50:09.680
>> Thank you.

02:50:09.719 --> 02:50:13.680
>> I see no questions. Thank you for your comments.

02:50:13.719 --> 02:50:21.899
>> Next item is for Jay West. Again, this is a public

02:50:21.899 --> 02:50:22.399
hearing and anyone is invited to speak but we will need a

02:50:22.399 --> 02:50:22.680
card filled out.

02:50:22.719 --> 02:50:25.940
>> Evening commissioners. I'm Jay West. I'm a commercial

02:50:25.940 --> 02:50:30.549
real estate broker. I live in Dallas, Texas, 2606 Shelby

02:50:30.549 --> 02:50:33.780
Avenue and I've been involved in the student housing

02:50:33.780 --> 02:50:34.680
business.

02:50:34.719 --> 02:50:39.440
For the last 20 years and I've sold land to developers in

02:50:39.440 --> 02:50:44.069
the Denton area for various projects and I actually worked

02:50:44.069 --> 02:50:49.299
on the U-Center Fry Street land but the developer I had it

02:50:49.299 --> 02:50:53.510
lined up was unable to complete the task so it got done a

02:50:53.510 --> 02:50:54.680
little later.

02:50:54.719 --> 02:50:58.600
And I'll just mention a couple of points because I've been

02:50:58.600 --> 02:51:02.569
watching this market for 15 years, got a little bit of

02:51:02.569 --> 02:51:07.290
historical perspective. Denton has grown and gotten nicer

02:51:07.290 --> 02:51:11.680
and gotten better like crazy over the last 15 years.

02:51:11.719 --> 02:51:16.059
So I commend the city for the good things that it's

02:51:16.059 --> 02:51:21.799
accomplished. Downtown is great, traffic's got the new loop

02:51:21.799 --> 02:51:26.059
288, doing a lot of good things. University of North Texas,

02:51:26.059 --> 02:51:27.680
when I started coming here 15 years ago I had 20,000

02:51:27.680 --> 02:51:27.680
students.

02:51:27.719 --> 02:51:32.040
It's got 36,000 students today and they're attracting a

02:51:32.040 --> 02:51:35.540
higher quality of student. It's only in the last two or

02:51:35.540 --> 02:51:39.059
three years that there has been adequate rental rates to

02:51:39.059 --> 02:51:42.680
justify the kind of construction that you see happening

02:51:42.680 --> 02:51:44.680
just in the last few years.

02:51:44.719 --> 02:51:48.670
And the two projects I'm referring to are U-Center Fry

02:51:48.670 --> 02:51:53.319
Street, originally called Sterling and Fry Street, takes up

02:51:53.319 --> 02:51:57.459
an entire city block with the exception of the little cut

02:51:57.459 --> 02:52:01.680
out for Cool Beans restaurant and imbibing facility.

02:52:01.719 --> 02:52:07.670
And it has 600 beds, it's like four acres I believe. By

02:52:07.670 --> 02:52:13.059
comparison, the proposed project on Hicker Street is on

02:52:13.059 --> 02:52:17.790
less than half the amount of land and it has half the

02:52:17.790 --> 02:52:19.680
number of beds.

02:52:19.719 --> 02:52:24.149
Now density, where is that? Just the density has been

02:52:24.149 --> 02:52:28.770
mentioned here this evening as a concern. The density on

02:52:28.770 --> 02:52:33.399
units per acre of the existing Fry Street project is 44

02:52:33.399 --> 02:52:38.010
units per acre and the proposed project is 49 units per

02:52:38.010 --> 02:52:38.680
acre.

02:52:38.719 --> 02:52:44.569
The density is very slightly different. So I guess I would

02:52:44.569 --> 02:52:50.200
make the point that the density is not really the big thing

02:52:50.200 --> 02:52:52.239
. They're bringing a smaller project. I think it's

02:52:52.239 --> 02:52:53.680
responsive to the needs of the community.

02:52:53.719 --> 02:52:57.579
I would echo what the owner of Virtman said that you've got

02:52:57.579 --> 02:53:01.450
some old, tired buildings today and these gentlemen are

02:53:01.450 --> 02:53:05.350
proposing to come to your community and build a beautiful

02:53:05.350 --> 02:53:08.680
new facility that I think people will like.

02:53:08.719 --> 02:53:12.540
Students will love it, I can assure you. They love it on

02:53:12.540 --> 02:53:16.000
every campus that I've visited. And I've visited, since it

02:53:16.000 --> 02:53:19.020
's my business, I've visited University of Texas, I've

02:53:19.020 --> 02:53:21.680
visited Texas State, I've visited TCU.

02:53:21.719 --> 02:53:26.680
My son attended TCU, graduated in 2010 and I'm familiar

02:53:26.680 --> 02:53:31.100
with the project that was in the slide that this community,

02:53:31.100 --> 02:53:35.680
this developer built there and it's a fantastic project.

02:53:35.719 --> 02:53:39.860
My understanding is that project is 80% parked, but the

02:53:39.860 --> 02:53:43.590
students only use about half the spaces. So they have a lot

02:53:43.590 --> 02:53:44.680
of empty spaces.

02:53:44.719 --> 02:53:50.870
And so going back to the, and I apologize, if I can run it

02:53:50.870 --> 02:53:52.680
over, okay.

02:53:52.719 --> 02:53:56.750
The Youth Center, Fry Street project is 70-75% parked and

02:53:56.750 --> 02:53:59.680
we know that because we visited the project.

02:53:59.719 --> 02:54:02.690
If you look at the retail, they have some retail parking.

02:54:02.690 --> 02:54:06.409
It's empty. I mean, it's like people don't know where it is

02:54:06.409 --> 02:54:06.680
.

02:54:06.719 --> 02:54:10.309
And rarely is there any cars on the top level. So that's

02:54:10.309 --> 02:54:14.219
where we, it's pretty reliable to estimate that only, they

02:54:14.219 --> 02:54:16.680
're only using 75% of spaces.

02:54:16.719 --> 02:54:20.040
The other project where we had data cited as January 6th,

02:54:20.040 --> 02:54:25.010
that wasn't point data. That's the parking for the entire

02:54:25.010 --> 02:54:27.680
term, spring and fall.

02:54:27.719 --> 02:54:32.250
That's how many students leave parking spaces. So it was 56

02:54:32.250 --> 02:54:35.680
to 64%. So just a point of clarification.

02:54:35.719 --> 02:54:38.530
Thank you. Thank you for your comments. I have one question

02:54:38.530 --> 02:54:41.680
that's just popped up. Commissioner back.

02:54:41.719 --> 02:54:47.750
Mr. West, you mentioned that the information you have on

02:54:47.750 --> 02:54:53.680
parking has been based on what you currently see.

02:54:53.719 --> 02:54:57.219
Right. Have you made any evaluations that project what's

02:54:57.219 --> 02:54:58.680
going to be in the future?

02:54:58.719 --> 02:55:00.659
Is any of your assessments based on what's going to

02:55:00.659 --> 02:55:01.680
eventually happen?

02:55:01.719 --> 02:55:04.760
Well, I mean, I just say anecdotally, you know, as

02:55:04.760 --> 02:55:09.680
universities get more dense, fewer students use cars

02:55:09.680 --> 02:55:11.680
because they don't need them.

02:55:11.719 --> 02:55:14.479
And because it's harder to get around, so it's just easier

02:55:14.479 --> 02:55:18.170
to leave the car at home or leave it in the garage and walk

02:55:18.170 --> 02:55:20.680
to class and take the shuttle bus.

02:55:20.719 --> 02:55:25.250
And, you know, when you've got students that live a mile or

02:55:25.250 --> 02:55:29.040
two from campus, they're going to use their cars to commute

02:55:29.040 --> 02:55:29.680
to campus.

02:55:29.719 --> 02:55:31.680
And they're going to leave them in the campus parking lot.

02:55:31.719 --> 02:55:34.579
Unfortunately, I think what a lot of University of North

02:55:34.579 --> 02:55:38.950
Texas students do, the university has a garage and it never

02:55:38.950 --> 02:55:42.680
fills up because it costs a little bit of money.

02:55:42.719 --> 02:55:46.100
The students would rather park for free, unfortunately, on

02:55:46.100 --> 02:55:47.680
these people's streets.

02:55:47.719 --> 02:55:50.690
And, you know, I don't think this project is going to

02:55:50.690 --> 02:55:52.680
change that. I don't think it's going to make it worse.

02:55:52.719 --> 02:55:54.680
It's not going to make it better, though.

02:55:54.719 --> 02:55:57.889
So I would say maybe there are some other ideas that could

02:55:57.889 --> 02:56:01.680
be put forth where the city could figure out a way to help

02:56:01.680 --> 02:56:04.370
these people who can't get out of their driveways on Oak

02:56:04.370 --> 02:56:04.680
Street.

02:56:04.719 --> 02:56:07.680
Because that would bother me. That would bother me.

02:56:07.719 --> 02:56:10.850
And I don't know what the solution is, but I'd say maybe

02:56:10.850 --> 02:56:14.170
somebody can get their thinking cap on and figure that one

02:56:14.170 --> 02:56:14.680
out.

02:56:14.719 --> 02:56:17.479
I think the trend is, you know, as a society, we're moving

02:56:17.479 --> 02:56:18.680
away from vehicles.

02:56:18.719 --> 02:56:21.680
More mass transit and Denton is on the leading edge.

02:56:21.719 --> 02:56:25.459
You know, you've got a rapid transit thing that connects to

02:56:25.459 --> 02:56:26.680
Dart in Dallas.

02:56:26.719 --> 02:56:29.629
That's a, you know, that's pretty leading edge for a

02:56:29.629 --> 02:56:32.329
community of this size to have a transit facility

02:56:32.329 --> 02:56:34.680
connecting to Dallas rapid transit.

02:56:34.719 --> 02:56:36.680
I mean, I applaud you.

02:56:36.719 --> 02:56:37.680
Thank you, sir.

02:56:37.719 --> 02:56:38.680
Thank you.

02:56:38.719 --> 02:56:39.680
No further questions.

02:56:39.719 --> 02:56:41.680
Thank you.

02:56:41.719 --> 02:56:43.680
I've received one other card.

02:56:43.719 --> 02:56:48.680
This is from Jennifer Meyer.

02:56:48.719 --> 02:56:56.069
She does not wish to speak and she is in opposition and she

02:56:56.069 --> 02:57:00.680
does have some comments on the back.

02:57:00.719 --> 02:57:05.840
Why are we considering variances to the already fleshed out

02:57:05.840 --> 02:57:07.680
plan for the area?

02:57:07.719 --> 02:57:10.760
And then what is the plan for handling such growing density

02:57:10.760 --> 02:57:11.680
down the road?

02:57:11.719 --> 02:57:14.680
And then Oak and Hickory Streets cannot be widened.

02:57:14.719 --> 02:57:16.680
What is your long term plan?

02:57:16.719 --> 02:57:19.680
So those are her comments.

02:57:19.719 --> 02:57:22.680
That's the final card that I have.

02:57:22.719 --> 02:57:24.680
This is a public hearing.

02:57:24.719 --> 02:57:26.750
It's open to the public so anyone who would like to speak

02:57:26.750 --> 02:57:27.680
is welcome to speak.

02:57:27.719 --> 02:57:32.000
If you would like, approach the mic and give your name and

02:57:32.000 --> 02:57:35.170
address and when you've made your comments, please fill out

02:57:35.170 --> 02:57:36.680
a card for us.

02:57:36.719 --> 02:57:39.680
My name is Brigid Corbett and I did fill out a white card.

02:57:39.719 --> 02:57:42.680
I just, I didn't have any comments at the time.

02:57:42.719 --> 02:57:44.680
I live at 1220 Ector Street.

02:57:44.719 --> 02:57:45.680
I live in the neighborhood.

02:57:45.719 --> 02:57:48.620
That is to the north of the university, very close to

02:57:48.620 --> 02:57:49.680
University Drive.

02:57:49.719 --> 02:57:52.860
And I came tonight because I'm concerned about development

02:57:52.860 --> 02:57:56.100
on the outside of this kind of larger neighborhood that's

02:57:56.100 --> 02:58:00.270
bordered by UNT to the south and University Drive to the

02:58:00.270 --> 02:58:00.680
north.

02:58:00.719 --> 02:58:05.469
And I do object to this project because I think it's too

02:58:05.469 --> 02:58:10.920
many people and too small of a space and it's not, it doesn

02:58:10.920 --> 02:58:11.680
't make a good transition.

02:58:11.719 --> 02:58:14.819
But the reason I got up to speak was because in all this

02:58:14.819 --> 02:58:18.389
discussion about the parking, and I'm not saying this to

02:58:18.389 --> 02:58:21.680
try to make this project be approved and go forward,

02:58:21.719 --> 02:58:26.180
but it strikes me that it's been put forth that all of

02:58:26.180 --> 02:58:30.680
these types of housing have unused parking spaces.

02:58:30.719 --> 02:58:33.379
And then there are people nearby who have problems with

02:58:33.379 --> 02:58:35.680
cars that are parking too much on their streets.

02:58:35.719 --> 02:58:39.670
And I wonder if the developers of these kinds of things

02:58:39.670 --> 02:58:43.719
could make available parking for people other than the

02:58:43.719 --> 02:58:44.680
residents.

02:58:44.719 --> 02:58:47.469
And that might ease some of the issues that the surrounding

02:58:47.469 --> 02:58:48.680
neighborhoods have.

02:58:48.719 --> 02:58:51.680
And that was the only comment I had to add.

02:58:51.719 --> 02:58:52.680
Thank you.

02:58:52.719 --> 02:58:53.680
I don't see any questions.

02:58:53.719 --> 02:58:56.680
Thank you.

02:58:56.719 --> 02:59:00.680
Again, public hearing or open to the public to speak.

02:59:00.719 --> 02:59:03.680
Hi, my name is Esther Rodriguez Phelps.

02:59:03.719 --> 02:59:05.680
I live at 606 Adley Street.

02:59:05.719 --> 02:59:08.680
I've been a resident of Denton, Texas for over 30 years.

02:59:08.719 --> 02:59:13.700
I'm very familiar with the area of the Fry Street area and

02:59:13.700 --> 02:59:16.680
where this Burtman's area is.

02:59:16.719 --> 02:59:22.270
I keep going back to the very beginning of this meeting

02:59:22.270 --> 02:59:29.680
where our own city staff members said to deny this.

02:59:29.719 --> 02:59:31.680
They said it at the very beginning.

02:59:31.719 --> 02:59:37.579
Their proposal was to deny this development based upon the

02:59:37.579 --> 02:59:40.680
variances for the overlays that were already

02:59:40.719 --> 02:59:45.930
difficultly and with much gnashing of teeth agreed upon

02:59:45.930 --> 02:59:47.680
many years ago.

02:59:47.719 --> 02:59:51.680
And for an outsider, yes, we want Denton to grow.

02:59:51.719 --> 02:59:53.680
I am in, I'm a real estate appraiser.

02:59:53.719 --> 02:59:56.680
Yes, it's growing left and right.

02:59:56.719 --> 02:59:58.680
But this is still Denton.

02:59:58.719 --> 03:00:04.680
And we need to take into consideration what this town is

03:00:04.680 --> 03:00:07.680
about, what our culture is about,

03:00:07.719 --> 03:00:14.680
what our livability is about, and how we can communicate

03:00:14.680 --> 03:00:18.680
and coordinate all of that is wonderful.

03:00:18.719 --> 03:00:22.860
I'm sure Mr. The owner of Burtman's was very much

03:00:22.860 --> 03:00:27.680
interested in selling his property and being able to

03:00:27.719 --> 03:00:31.680
have his own unit within this development.

03:00:31.719 --> 03:00:34.680
But that enhances him.

03:00:34.719 --> 03:00:37.850
It doesn't necessarily enhance everybody else within the

03:00:37.850 --> 03:00:38.680
neighborhood.

03:00:38.719 --> 03:00:42.670
And the developers who come to Denton need to be good

03:00:42.670 --> 03:00:43.680
neighbors.

03:00:43.719 --> 03:00:44.680
Thank you very much.

03:00:44.719 --> 03:00:48.680
Would you please fill out a blue card for us, ma'am?

03:00:48.719 --> 03:00:49.680
Thank you.

03:00:49.719 --> 03:00:51.680
Again, it's a public hearing.

03:00:51.719 --> 03:00:55.090
Anyone who would like to speak on this item, please come

03:00:55.090 --> 03:00:56.680
forward at this time.

03:00:56.719 --> 03:00:59.760
You can make your comments and then please fill out a card

03:00:59.760 --> 03:01:00.680
afterwards.

03:01:00.719 --> 03:01:04.680
Again, anyone else that would like to speak on this item?

03:01:04.719 --> 03:01:08.680
No, no, sir, I'm sorry.

03:01:08.719 --> 03:01:13.010
Seeing no further comments or people wishing to speak, I'm

03:01:13.010 --> 03:01:15.680
going to close the public hearing at this time

03:01:15.719 --> 03:01:20.680
and open it for discussion.

03:01:20.719 --> 03:01:22.680
Commissioner Taylor.

03:01:22.719 --> 03:01:24.680
Thank you, Chair.

03:01:24.719 --> 03:01:33.969
So I have a wide variety of views on this project and in

03:01:33.969 --> 03:01:34.680
this area.

03:01:34.719 --> 03:01:39.319
So I'd like to give a little context and then I think I'm

03:01:39.319 --> 03:01:42.680
going to move forward with a motion.

03:01:42.719 --> 03:01:45.680
I grew up in the Denton area.

03:01:45.719 --> 03:01:50.290
I lived at 302 Fry Street for a time and I did not own a

03:01:50.290 --> 03:01:50.680
car.

03:01:50.719 --> 03:01:52.680
And I walked to campus.

03:01:52.719 --> 03:01:53.680
I walked to my job.

03:01:53.719 --> 03:01:55.450
And I walked to the entertainment area and it was all about

03:01:55.450 --> 03:01:57.680
six, eight blocks away.

03:01:57.719 --> 03:02:01.860
I've also lived at 1513 West Oak, which was an apartment

03:02:01.860 --> 03:02:03.680
building, apartment building in quotes,

03:02:03.719 --> 03:02:06.680
built in about 1930.

03:02:06.719 --> 03:02:09.760
So it was older than most of the development in the Fry

03:02:09.760 --> 03:02:10.680
Street area.

03:02:10.719 --> 03:02:13.690
There's some parts of the old Fry Street commercial area

03:02:13.690 --> 03:02:15.680
that was built in the '20s,

03:02:15.719 --> 03:02:18.680
so it's comparable in age.

03:02:18.719 --> 03:02:23.479
And I've also lived far off of campus in neighborhoods in

03:02:23.479 --> 03:02:24.680
North Denton.

03:02:24.719 --> 03:02:27.950
And I was a commuter to UNT and I was too cheap to buy a

03:02:27.950 --> 03:02:28.680
parking pass

03:02:28.719 --> 03:02:31.930
and I would park in the neighborhoods and troll around to

03:02:31.930 --> 03:02:32.680
find a spot.

03:02:32.719 --> 03:02:36.680
And I can tell you that it's not the apartment dwellers

03:02:36.680 --> 03:02:37.680
right next to campus

03:02:37.719 --> 03:02:40.680
that are the traffic problem or the parking problem.

03:02:40.719 --> 03:02:49.280
It's the starving commuters that do troll for spots and swo

03:02:49.280 --> 03:02:50.680
op in at the meters

03:02:50.719 --> 03:02:56.530
or the little not quite marked but not unmarked, not orange

03:02:56.530 --> 03:02:57.680
-curved spots.

03:02:57.719 --> 03:03:01.670
So just for that perspective, I'm sure a lot of you already

03:03:01.670 --> 03:03:02.680
know that.

03:03:02.719 --> 03:03:06.680
I am also a huge fan of density.

03:03:06.719 --> 03:03:09.680
I've lived in a lot of cities across the country.

03:03:09.719 --> 03:03:12.700
Density brings all of the amenities that people talk about

03:03:12.700 --> 03:03:13.680
that they want.

03:03:13.719 --> 03:03:15.680
They want a walkable neighborhood.

03:03:15.719 --> 03:03:18.379
They want to be able to walk to a coffee shop a lot of

03:03:18.379 --> 03:03:18.680
times.

03:03:18.719 --> 03:03:25.309
They want to be able to have a lot of storefronts in their

03:03:25.309 --> 03:03:26.680
commercial areas

03:03:26.719 --> 03:03:28.680
like in their walkable commercial areas

03:03:28.719 --> 03:03:32.969
so that you don't just have one store for 10 blocks of

03:03:32.969 --> 03:03:33.680
traffic

03:03:33.719 --> 03:03:34.680
or 10 blocks of neighborhood.

03:03:34.719 --> 03:03:37.680
You have strips with a lot of options.

03:03:37.719 --> 03:03:40.680
That requires enough customers within walking distance.

03:03:40.719 --> 03:03:44.680
So that doesn't come unless we get density.

03:03:44.719 --> 03:03:48.909
This also, the trends in universities and university

03:03:48.909 --> 03:03:50.680
students is fewer

03:03:50.719 --> 03:03:55.680
and fewer millennials and younger people are owning cars.

03:03:55.719 --> 03:03:58.680
Whenever I turned 16 and everybody I knew,

03:03:58.719 --> 03:04:00.680
we rushed out to get our driver's license in our car.

03:04:00.719 --> 03:04:04.680
My nephew who is turning 18 in a month,

03:04:04.719 --> 03:04:07.809
waited a year and a half after finishing his driver's ed to

03:04:07.809 --> 03:04:08.680
go take his test

03:04:08.719 --> 03:04:10.680
because he didn't care about driving.

03:04:10.719 --> 03:04:12.680
That's a single example,

03:04:12.719 --> 03:04:17.819
but the overall trend is 95% of 16-year-olds had a car in

03:04:17.819 --> 03:04:18.680
1990.

03:04:18.719 --> 03:04:23.680
It's about 80% to 75% today.

03:04:23.719 --> 03:04:29.680
These trends do lead to a need for walkable development.

03:04:31.719 --> 03:04:36.680
So I really like the density,

03:04:36.719 --> 03:04:42.680
but I have a problem with the process here.

03:04:42.719 --> 03:04:48.680
The Fry Street overlay was a long fought process

03:04:48.719 --> 03:04:50.680
and it's only about 12 pages long,

03:04:50.719 --> 03:04:52.680
which is remarkably short for an overlay.

03:04:52.719 --> 03:04:55.680
Our Razor Ranch overlay I think is about 600 pages.

03:04:55.719 --> 03:04:57.680
The airport overlay, which really just deals with

03:04:57.719 --> 03:05:00.379
you can't build a building that blocks the lights or the

03:05:00.379 --> 03:05:01.680
airplanes,

03:05:01.719 --> 03:05:03.680
is I believe 40 or 50 pages.

03:05:03.719 --> 03:05:05.680
And then this one manages to come in at 12.

03:05:05.719 --> 03:05:07.680
That's probably because that's all the varied neighborhoods

03:05:07.719 --> 03:05:09.680
in the area could agree upon.

03:05:09.719 --> 03:05:14.680
So you have the historic district built at the turn of the

03:05:14.680 --> 03:05:15.680
last century.

03:05:15.719 --> 03:05:20.680
The university has been there since about 1910.

03:05:20.719 --> 03:05:23.680
The student housing that I lived in on Oak Street

03:05:23.719 --> 03:05:26.680
that had been built in 1930 or so.

03:05:26.719 --> 03:05:28.680
These are all competing interests,

03:05:28.719 --> 03:05:32.680
all coming to a point at Fry Street.

03:05:32.719 --> 03:05:37.680
And so that overlay, as lacking as it may be

03:05:37.719 --> 03:05:41.680
and as kind of as unfilled out as it is,

03:05:41.719 --> 03:05:45.680
was the culmination of a large community

03:05:45.719 --> 03:05:47.680
with a lot of different views.

03:05:47.719 --> 03:05:55.680
So for us to just basically take a third of the property

03:05:55.680 --> 03:05:56.680
out of section A

03:05:56.719 --> 03:05:59.680
or area A or whatever the term is,

03:05:59.719 --> 03:06:05.159
to meet one project, I think that I have a problem with it

03:06:05.159 --> 03:06:06.680
on the process side.

03:06:06.719 --> 03:06:10.010
I think if this project had been proposed on the south side

03:06:10.010 --> 03:06:12.680
of campus across Eagle,

03:06:12.719 --> 03:06:14.680
there isn't a cohesive neighborhood.

03:06:14.719 --> 03:06:17.690
There aren't three or four competing areas closing in

03:06:17.690 --> 03:06:18.680
together

03:06:18.719 --> 03:06:21.590
that create a lot of friction and a lot of different

03:06:21.590 --> 03:06:22.680
demands.

03:06:22.719 --> 03:06:24.680
It would be great.

03:06:24.719 --> 03:06:28.680
The only other aside I would have on the density is

03:06:28.719 --> 03:06:31.680
I think this project lacks retail.

03:06:31.719 --> 03:06:33.680
As we bring more and more customers down,

03:06:33.719 --> 03:06:35.680
we're going from 30,000 to 15,000 square feet.

03:06:35.719 --> 03:06:39.680
I know that apartment developers are in the business of

03:06:39.680 --> 03:06:40.680
building apartment buildings

03:06:40.719 --> 03:06:43.680
and so they don't really want to deal with a lot of retail.

03:06:43.719 --> 03:06:46.479
But I think that's what this area needs as it gets more

03:06:46.479 --> 03:06:47.680
dense.

03:06:47.719 --> 03:06:50.680
But because of the small area, Fry Street plan,

03:06:50.719 --> 03:06:52.680
that's moving forward now,

03:06:52.719 --> 03:06:55.680
which is another community input process,

03:06:55.719 --> 03:06:58.680
to come up with not just this three block area,

03:06:58.719 --> 03:07:03.489
but a greater probably five by five block roughly zone in

03:07:03.489 --> 03:07:05.680
this neighborhood.

03:07:05.719 --> 03:07:10.090
And because this is really cutting out a good chunk of the

03:07:10.090 --> 03:07:11.680
overlay standard

03:07:11.719 --> 03:07:16.680
for a single project, I move that we deny this application.

03:07:23.719 --> 03:07:26.680
We've got discussion.

03:07:29.719 --> 03:07:31.590
The Chair is going to, at this time I have a whole bank of

03:07:31.590 --> 03:07:34.680
people who would like to speak.

03:07:34.719 --> 03:07:37.559
Would you be okay to hold your motion and give everybody an

03:07:37.559 --> 03:07:38.680
opportunity to speak

03:07:38.719 --> 03:07:40.680
and then we'll come back for a second.

03:07:40.719 --> 03:07:42.680
I'll withdraw my motion.

03:07:42.719 --> 03:07:44.680
Okay.

03:07:44.719 --> 03:07:47.680
Let me know when you'd like to bring it back.

03:07:47.719 --> 03:07:49.680
Commissioner Beck.

03:07:49.719 --> 03:07:50.680
Thank you, Chair.

03:07:50.719 --> 03:07:52.809
And thank you everyone of you all for coming out and

03:07:52.809 --> 03:07:53.680
speaking your mind.

03:07:53.719 --> 03:07:57.090
I really appreciate it and it was important that you did

03:07:57.090 --> 03:07:57.680
this.

03:07:57.719 --> 03:08:03.090
When I first came to live in Denton and go to what was then

03:08:03.090 --> 03:08:03.680
North Texas State University

03:08:03.719 --> 03:08:07.579
back in the early '70s, the city layout then was kind of a

03:08:07.579 --> 03:08:09.680
patchwork quilt design.

03:08:09.719 --> 03:08:12.690
There seemed to be no rhyme or reason where some buildings

03:08:12.690 --> 03:08:13.680
were,

03:08:13.719 --> 03:08:17.680
why they were there and how streets just ended abruptly.

03:08:17.719 --> 03:08:20.579
There simply didn't seem to be any apparent concept of

03:08:20.579 --> 03:08:21.680
future growth then.

03:08:21.719 --> 03:08:24.469
But over the last 30 years or so, new leadership began to

03:08:24.469 --> 03:08:25.680
focus on this problem

03:08:25.719 --> 03:08:28.479
and it has led to a vision that I think we can all be proud

03:08:28.479 --> 03:08:28.680
of.

03:08:28.719 --> 03:08:31.680
Its most current manifestation has been mentioned here.

03:08:31.719 --> 03:08:36.170
It's the Denton Plan 2030 that allows us for a while longer

03:08:36.170 --> 03:08:37.680
to keep the small town flavor

03:08:37.719 --> 03:08:39.680
that we're all fond of.

03:08:39.719 --> 03:08:42.139
So I'd just like to echo here many of the thoughts that

03:08:42.139 --> 03:08:44.680
people, all of you have expressed,

03:08:44.719 --> 03:08:48.010
how this dwelling will diminish the goals set out in the

03:08:48.010 --> 03:08:49.680
Denton Plan 2030

03:08:49.719 --> 03:08:53.239
in regards to the way we want it to sustain the character

03:08:53.239 --> 03:08:54.680
of the neighborhood.

03:08:54.719 --> 03:08:58.190
And though I plan on speaking a lot to the size of this

03:08:58.190 --> 03:08:59.680
thing,

03:08:59.719 --> 03:09:04.299
that's not something we're going to vote on, but so I'll

03:09:04.299 --> 03:09:06.680
bypass that.

03:09:06.719 --> 03:09:09.879
If we honor this zone change though, to me I think it

03:09:09.879 --> 03:09:11.680
attempts to stretch our codes

03:09:11.719 --> 03:09:14.899
for the Fry Street area beyond what some of us feel is

03:09:14.899 --> 03:09:15.680
already a bit much

03:09:15.719 --> 03:09:18.680
and crowd even more people in the small area.

03:09:18.719 --> 03:09:23.250
And as Commissioner Taylor said, it took us a while to get

03:09:23.250 --> 03:09:24.680
this overlay set

03:09:24.719 --> 03:09:26.680
and here we go changing it.

03:09:26.719 --> 03:09:29.680
And it kind of sets a precedent to, you know,

03:09:29.719 --> 03:09:33.670
it just kind of inches us towards something bigger and more

03:09:33.670 --> 03:09:34.680
congested.

03:09:34.719 --> 03:09:37.500
We need more student housing and the city is willing to

03:09:37.500 --> 03:09:39.680
work with UNT and TWU to do this,

03:09:39.719 --> 03:09:42.760
but we have to do so in a fashion that sustains our

03:09:42.760 --> 03:09:43.680
treasured areas around the campuses

03:09:43.719 --> 03:09:46.680
or we'll lose that which gives our community value,

03:09:46.719 --> 03:09:50.040
which I think is an appealing display between what the

03:09:50.040 --> 03:09:51.680
campus needs are

03:09:51.719 --> 03:09:55.680
and with the surrounding homes and businesses.

03:09:55.719 --> 03:09:59.329
Thinking that we can minimize parking by inhibiting the

03:09:59.329 --> 03:09:59.680
numbers of cars

03:09:59.719 --> 03:10:03.360
of those who will occupy this dwelling seems a little

03:10:03.360 --> 03:10:04.680
unrealistic to me.

03:10:04.719 --> 03:10:06.950
In an age where the individual and the automobile are still

03:10:06.950 --> 03:10:07.680
pretty much inseparable,

03:10:07.719 --> 03:10:11.350
though I'm sure, again, Commissioner Taylor's statistics

03:10:11.350 --> 03:10:13.680
show that that's changing.

03:10:13.719 --> 03:10:16.680
But I think this thinking drifts into wishful thinking

03:10:16.719 --> 03:10:19.139
and lays the groundwork for problems down the road when too

03:10:19.139 --> 03:10:19.680
many cars and people

03:10:19.719 --> 03:10:21.940
put too great a stress on our infrastructure and our

03:10:21.940 --> 03:10:24.680
emergency services of fire and police.

03:10:24.719 --> 03:10:27.680
I would encourage EDR to go back to the drawing board

03:10:27.719 --> 03:10:30.579
and design units that accommodate our current codes for Fry

03:10:30.579 --> 03:10:31.680
Street District.

03:10:31.719 --> 03:10:34.680
We'd love to have you as part of the dent in future,

03:10:34.719 --> 03:10:36.729
but it must be on a scale that doesn't overwhelm what we're

03:10:36.729 --> 03:10:37.680
trying to preserve here.

03:10:37.719 --> 03:10:41.000
So until then, I'll stand with the PNZ staff's decision to

03:10:41.000 --> 03:10:42.680
deny the request on the amendment.

03:10:42.719 --> 03:10:44.680
Thank you.

03:10:44.719 --> 03:10:46.680
Commissioner Bruegel.

03:10:46.719 --> 03:10:50.680
Thank you, Chair.

03:10:50.719 --> 03:10:52.899
I know some of the people who came out from the

03:10:52.899 --> 03:10:53.680
neighborhood

03:10:53.719 --> 03:10:56.680
and thank you all for staying late on a school night.

03:10:56.719 --> 03:11:00.670
Some of you did speak favorably about parts of this

03:11:00.670 --> 03:11:01.680
development

03:11:01.719 --> 03:11:05.680
and it sounds like you all would be very good neighbors.

03:11:05.719 --> 03:11:08.680
You know, you've got a good business plan.

03:11:08.719 --> 03:11:12.680
This meets a need for more student housing in town.

03:11:12.719 --> 03:11:16.680
But I think there's pieces that are missing still.

03:11:16.719 --> 03:11:19.680
We're missing the traffic impact analysis.

03:11:19.719 --> 03:11:23.420
The fire department hasn't had all their questions answered

03:11:23.420 --> 03:11:23.680
.

03:11:23.719 --> 03:11:27.680
There is a small area plan that's soon to be in the works.

03:11:27.719 --> 03:11:31.850
We have an overlay that took a long time to come in

03:11:31.850 --> 03:11:33.680
agreement for that.

03:11:33.719 --> 03:11:36.680
I would rather see, rather than this being denied,

03:11:36.719 --> 03:11:39.040
rather than you all go back and speak again with the

03:11:39.040 --> 03:11:39.680
neighborhood,

03:11:39.719 --> 03:11:43.680
any changes to the overlay must enhance the neighborhood.

03:11:43.719 --> 03:11:47.680
And I'm not sure that this enhances the neighborhood to the

03:11:47.680 --> 03:11:47.680
degree

03:11:47.719 --> 03:11:51.680
that rewriting or overwriting the overlay would...

03:11:51.719 --> 03:11:53.680
I'm not sure that...

03:11:53.719 --> 03:11:54.680
Sorry, excuse me.

03:11:54.719 --> 03:11:56.680
It is a school night and it is a bit late.

03:11:56.719 --> 03:11:59.680
So I'm not sure that the changes that we would be making

03:11:59.719 --> 03:12:03.680
would actually enhance the overlay.

03:12:03.719 --> 03:12:06.680
I'm concerned also, and I hear Commissioner Taylor,

03:12:06.719 --> 03:12:09.680
you know, we agree about a lot of things.

03:12:09.719 --> 03:12:12.690
I'm also a fan of density and I understand that the trend

03:12:12.690 --> 03:12:14.680
is for fewer cars.

03:12:14.719 --> 03:12:16.680
In fact, we just had a presentation in our work session

03:12:16.680 --> 03:12:17.680
about bikes.

03:12:17.719 --> 03:12:19.680
You know, we want to be a bikeable community.

03:12:19.719 --> 03:12:22.680
So I get that maybe not all the residents will have cars,

03:12:22.719 --> 03:12:23.680
but I'm still...

03:12:23.719 --> 03:12:26.680
I would like for the developer to show their math

03:12:26.719 --> 03:12:28.680
and I think Ms Anderson spoke about that.

03:12:28.719 --> 03:12:29.680
Show your math.

03:12:29.719 --> 03:12:31.680
Where's your data coming from?

03:12:31.719 --> 03:12:35.170
I would like to see, you know, what is the parking that

03:12:35.170 --> 03:12:36.680
will be needed,

03:12:36.719 --> 03:12:39.379
especially because these students are going to be driving

03:12:39.379 --> 03:12:39.680
to work.

03:12:39.719 --> 03:12:41.680
And also we've created with the loss of Sack and Safe,

03:12:41.719 --> 03:12:43.680
we now have a food desert in this neighborhood.

03:12:43.719 --> 03:12:45.680
So how are they going to get to the grocery store?

03:12:45.719 --> 03:12:48.840
I know I'm not going to want to Uber my ride up to Kroger

03:12:48.840 --> 03:12:49.680
and back.

03:12:49.719 --> 03:12:53.680
So I see some value in this project.

03:12:53.719 --> 03:12:58.250
I sincerely do, but not to the point where I'm ready to

03:12:58.250 --> 03:12:58.680
approve it.

03:12:58.719 --> 03:13:02.680
And yet I don't want to outright deny it either

03:13:02.719 --> 03:13:03.680
because I think there is...

03:13:03.719 --> 03:13:05.680
It does fit a need in the community.

03:13:05.719 --> 03:13:08.620
So I would be more in favor of postponing it until we can

03:13:08.620 --> 03:13:09.680
get more data.

03:13:09.719 --> 03:13:10.680
Go back to the neighborhood.

03:13:10.719 --> 03:13:12.680
Let's hear about the small area plan.

03:13:12.719 --> 03:13:14.340
Let's talk more about this overlay and how can we move

03:13:14.340 --> 03:13:15.680
forward?

03:13:15.719 --> 03:13:16.680
Because it's a good project,

03:13:16.719 --> 03:13:19.680
but just it's all about smart growth in this town.

03:13:19.719 --> 03:13:22.680
Just because we can build it, we're a growing town.

03:13:22.719 --> 03:13:25.829
Just because we can build it doesn't make it right for

03:13:25.829 --> 03:13:26.680
right now either.

03:13:26.719 --> 03:13:27.680
Does that make sense?

03:13:27.719 --> 03:13:30.760
So I'd be more in favor of postponing this until we get a

03:13:30.760 --> 03:13:31.680
little more data

03:13:31.719 --> 03:13:34.680
and speak with the neighborhood again.

03:13:34.719 --> 03:13:36.680
Commissioner Hudspeth.

03:13:36.719 --> 03:13:37.680
Thank you, Chair.

03:13:37.719 --> 03:13:41.680
So and I agree with Commissioner Bruegel

03:13:41.719 --> 03:13:48.979
that I would like to ultimately have the two parties, if

03:13:48.979 --> 03:13:50.680
you will, go back and talk.

03:13:50.719 --> 03:13:53.680
And for this reason, I think it is a great project.

03:13:53.719 --> 03:13:56.680
I'm very practical in my approach to things.

03:13:56.719 --> 03:13:59.680
And here's the realistic thing is,

03:13:59.719 --> 03:14:01.809
anywhere else in Denton, if there's a traffic jam or

03:14:01.809 --> 03:14:02.680
traffic backup,

03:14:02.719 --> 03:14:05.680
I can circumnavigate that and go a different way.

03:14:05.719 --> 03:14:09.159
Well, the problem with this particular area is, to the

03:14:09.159 --> 03:14:09.680
right,

03:14:09.719 --> 03:14:12.680
everything for as far as you can see is 20 miles per hour.

03:14:12.719 --> 03:14:14.680
That's just not appeasing at all.

03:14:14.719 --> 03:14:17.680
I mean, at minimum, I'm going 40 everywhere.

03:14:17.719 --> 03:14:20.680
So I mean, that doesn't work.

03:14:20.719 --> 03:14:24.139
And then it also ignores the fact that you can have all the

03:14:24.139 --> 03:14:25.680
parking on the planet,

03:14:25.719 --> 03:14:28.680
but you still have to drive in a circle to get up there.

03:14:28.719 --> 03:14:31.909
And if I'm running late, I'm not going to drive in a circle

03:14:31.909 --> 03:14:32.680
to get up there.

03:14:32.719 --> 03:14:36.350
I'm going to absolutely park right on the edge of someone's

03:14:36.350 --> 03:14:38.680
house on Oak and hustle to class.

03:14:38.719 --> 03:14:41.680
And so I think there is some value,

03:14:41.719 --> 03:14:45.440
but I think it needs a practical application to, hey,

03:14:45.440 --> 03:14:48.680
really, that's a no-brainer.

03:14:48.719 --> 03:14:50.680
I don't want to drive in that circle.

03:14:50.719 --> 03:14:52.680
Even if I have the best parking spot on the roof,

03:14:52.719 --> 03:14:56.680
that's three trips behind someone that drives super slow.

03:14:56.719 --> 03:14:59.680
I'm still doing less than 40, and it's just not appeasing.

03:14:59.719 --> 03:15:01.680
So I think there is an opportunity.

03:15:01.719 --> 03:15:02.680
But I will tell you this.

03:15:02.719 --> 03:15:07.750
I am encouraged by the retail, kind of contrary to what you

03:15:07.750 --> 03:15:08.680
pointed out,

03:15:08.719 --> 03:15:11.680
in that if you look down the street,

03:15:11.719 --> 03:15:14.979
there was four places that they said were going to be just

03:15:14.979 --> 03:15:16.680
inundated with business

03:15:16.719 --> 03:15:19.760
because the apartments up there had been 30 different

03:15:19.760 --> 03:15:20.680
restaurants.

03:15:20.719 --> 03:15:22.680
It was a mac and cheese place.

03:15:22.719 --> 03:15:24.680
I don't even know what's there now anymore.

03:15:24.719 --> 03:15:27.680
And it doesn't -- and it's just getting decimated.

03:15:27.719 --> 03:15:30.930
So to have someone that's been there that I know is going

03:15:30.930 --> 03:15:31.680
to be there

03:15:31.719 --> 03:15:34.799
and Subway is going to be there, and you keep it concise, I

03:15:34.799 --> 03:15:36.680
'm all for that.

03:15:36.719 --> 03:15:37.680
I think that is outstanding.

03:15:37.719 --> 03:15:41.680
That's a plus for me versus the alternative,

03:15:41.719 --> 03:15:45.680
which is just a revolving door of whoever and whenever.

03:15:45.719 --> 03:15:49.680
So I think the two things I would like to see is one,

03:15:49.719 --> 03:15:52.690
it's overwhelming the people that came and spoke that live

03:15:52.690 --> 03:15:53.680
in the --

03:15:53.719 --> 03:15:55.680
that came in the neighborhood are against it.

03:15:55.719 --> 03:15:56.680
So why?

03:15:56.719 --> 03:15:57.680
Let's go talk and let's go hash that out.

03:15:57.719 --> 03:16:01.940
And then secondly, just come up with a pedestrian plan that

03:16:01.940 --> 03:16:02.680
fits the area,

03:16:02.719 --> 03:16:05.500
because I think that too would be, as the kids are walking

03:16:05.500 --> 03:16:06.680
back and forth,

03:16:06.719 --> 03:16:09.680
let's deal with that sooner than later.

03:16:09.719 --> 03:16:10.680
Thank you.

03:16:10.719 --> 03:16:12.680
Commissioner Rosell.

03:16:12.719 --> 03:16:14.680
Thank you, sir.

03:16:14.719 --> 03:16:17.379
I want to reiterate everyone -- what everyone else has said

03:16:17.379 --> 03:16:17.680
in terms of

03:16:17.719 --> 03:16:19.530
thanking everyone for coming out and voicing their concerns

03:16:19.530 --> 03:16:19.680
.

03:16:19.719 --> 03:16:23.680
It's very helpful for us to cultivate discussion

03:16:23.719 --> 03:16:27.030
and try to hash out the thoughts of not just us, but the

03:16:27.030 --> 03:16:27.680
city at large.

03:16:27.719 --> 03:16:29.680
So I thank you for that.

03:16:29.719 --> 03:16:31.959
I personally kind of align with Commissioner Taylor in

03:16:31.959 --> 03:16:34.680
terms of me being torn.

03:16:34.719 --> 03:16:38.309
In my estimation, and this is obviously just anecdotal for

03:16:38.309 --> 03:16:38.680
me,

03:16:38.719 --> 03:16:42.270
I certainly see a lesser car ownership happening pervas

03:16:42.270 --> 03:16:42.680
ively,

03:16:42.719 --> 03:16:43.680
especially through college students.

03:16:43.719 --> 03:16:47.680
I have a college friend who lives in the Rawlings dorm.

03:16:47.719 --> 03:16:49.680
It's the honors dorm on campus.

03:16:49.719 --> 03:16:52.680
And I was speaking with him, he said that maybe 60% of that

03:16:52.680 --> 03:16:52.680
dorm

03:16:52.719 --> 03:16:55.680
owns cars and has them on campus.

03:16:55.719 --> 03:16:59.389
So I think the numbers that Mr. King and his team provided

03:16:59.389 --> 03:16:59.680
tonight,

03:16:59.719 --> 03:17:00.680
they resonate with me.

03:17:00.719 --> 03:17:01.680
I believe it.

03:17:01.719 --> 03:17:04.680
It's not just a matter of like take their word for it.

03:17:04.719 --> 03:17:09.680
I have my own intuition and knowledge of the people I know.

03:17:09.719 --> 03:17:12.680
I know currently not a whole lot of college freshmen,

03:17:12.719 --> 03:17:16.680
but of four of them that I do know, one owns a car.

03:17:16.719 --> 03:17:20.680
And so I can extrapolate and kind of understand how TCU

03:17:20.680 --> 03:17:21.680
might be at 60%

03:17:21.719 --> 03:17:24.680
or the one on Eagle could be at 60%.

03:17:24.719 --> 03:17:26.680
That can make sense in my mind.

03:17:26.719 --> 03:17:30.690
And so I'm wondering if there needs to be a one-for-one

03:17:30.690 --> 03:17:31.680
parking requirement

03:17:31.719 --> 03:17:34.680
in this overlay.

03:17:34.719 --> 03:17:37.680
And I'm in favor, in the presentation that you provided,

03:17:37.719 --> 03:17:39.940
I thought was spot on, and I think it would be a great

03:17:39.940 --> 03:17:40.680
development.

03:17:40.719 --> 03:17:43.680
And I think the reason why Warren and Commissioner Taylor

03:17:43.680 --> 03:17:43.680
brought this up

03:17:43.719 --> 03:17:47.200
is a lot of work and sweat went in before I became a

03:17:47.200 --> 03:17:47.680
commissioner

03:17:47.719 --> 03:17:49.680
on making this overlay exist.

03:17:49.719 --> 03:17:54.680
And so I feel kind of short-sighted to come in here tonight

03:17:54.719 --> 03:17:58.280
and this week and look over this and think that what I've

03:17:58.280 --> 03:17:58.680
heard tonight

03:17:58.719 --> 03:18:01.680
should circumvent the work done previously

03:18:01.719 --> 03:18:05.680
and bifurcate an overlay that's already there.

03:18:05.719 --> 03:18:07.680
And so again, Commissioner Taylor's point,

03:18:07.719 --> 03:18:10.680
and that's where I think my decision ultimately lies,

03:18:10.719 --> 03:18:12.680
is there was work previously done

03:18:12.719 --> 03:18:15.680
and I feel like we probably need to honor that work

03:18:15.719 --> 03:18:19.680
and maybe the small area plan can help us maneuver this.

03:18:19.719 --> 03:18:22.680
I would love to see an EDR property on that site.

03:18:22.719 --> 03:18:25.680
I think you would be good neighbors.

03:18:25.719 --> 03:18:27.680
Tonight, though, I don't know if it's a postpone

03:18:27.719 --> 03:18:29.680
or if it's an outright denial,

03:18:29.719 --> 03:18:32.680
but because of what has to happen to a sub-district,

03:18:32.719 --> 03:18:36.680
I couldn't support that.

03:18:36.719 --> 03:18:38.680
Commissioner Duttlewitz.

03:18:38.719 --> 03:18:39.680
Thank you, Chair.

03:18:39.719 --> 03:18:43.680
It's sort of an unwritten procedure of this commission

03:18:43.719 --> 03:18:45.680
for all of us to express our concerns

03:18:45.719 --> 03:18:47.680
or vote for or vote against.

03:18:47.719 --> 03:18:50.700
So you've heard a lot of comments from the current

03:18:50.700 --> 03:18:51.680
commissioners

03:18:51.719 --> 03:18:54.680
and I guess I'm the last one to comment.

03:18:54.719 --> 03:18:58.680
Gosh, this project is obviously needed.

03:18:58.719 --> 03:19:02.680
It does bring some quality to the housing units that we see

03:19:02.719 --> 03:19:05.680
and then that are provided for students.

03:19:05.719 --> 03:19:08.680
But without going through all the other comments,

03:19:08.719 --> 03:19:11.680
it's really the issue of amending,

03:19:11.719 --> 03:19:15.680
not changing the zoning, it's amending an overlay.

03:19:15.719 --> 03:19:17.680
And I believe that overlay was put in by the citizens

03:19:17.719 --> 03:19:19.680
for a purpose.

03:19:19.719 --> 03:19:22.680
And I'm in agreement that we don't amend it,

03:19:22.719 --> 03:19:25.680
leave the overlay as is,

03:19:25.719 --> 03:19:28.680
and let the developers work within the confines

03:19:28.719 --> 03:19:30.680
of that overlay.

03:19:30.719 --> 03:19:32.680
I think everybody would be happy with that.

03:19:32.719 --> 03:19:34.680
So for the purposes of postponing any more discussion,

03:19:34.719 --> 03:19:36.680
I think we're going to come back to, it's an overlay,

03:19:36.719 --> 03:19:38.680
here's what the overlay says,

03:19:38.719 --> 03:19:40.680
let's build our developments within that

03:19:40.719 --> 03:19:43.680
and everything will be fine.

03:19:43.719 --> 03:19:45.680
And I think the residents will be happy with that.

03:19:45.719 --> 03:19:47.680
I know that the board will be happy with that.

03:19:47.719 --> 03:19:49.680
It may be a consternation for the developers,

03:19:49.719 --> 03:19:51.680
but that's what the overlay is.

03:19:51.719 --> 03:19:54.680
And you've always heard Commissioner Taylor say

03:19:54.719 --> 03:19:57.680
that if this was located in another area,

03:19:57.719 --> 03:19:58.680
a zoning issue or something,

03:19:58.719 --> 03:20:00.680
we might be able to work with,

03:20:00.719 --> 03:20:03.680
but not to oversee or turn over an overlay

03:20:03.719 --> 03:20:06.680
that's already been put in place and been working.

03:20:06.719 --> 03:20:08.680
And as much as I would love to have this project

03:20:08.719 --> 03:20:11.680
and see it come to fruition,

03:20:11.719 --> 03:20:13.680
I can't support turning down an overlay

03:20:13.719 --> 03:20:19.680
that's already in place.

03:20:19.719 --> 03:20:20.680
Commissioner Taylor.

03:20:20.719 --> 03:20:21.680
Thank you, Chair.

03:20:21.719 --> 03:20:23.680
I have a question, perhaps,

03:20:23.719 --> 03:20:26.680
for our Deputy Director or legal.

03:20:26.719 --> 03:20:30.680
The process of amending an overlay,

03:20:30.719 --> 03:20:32.680
like on an SUP, you can't reapply for a year

03:20:32.719 --> 03:20:34.680
if your SUP is denied.

03:20:34.719 --> 03:20:39.680
In this case, would a denial now preclude any changes

03:20:39.719 --> 03:20:48.680
three months from now, six months from now?

03:20:48.719 --> 03:20:50.680
The SUP process is the only one that I know of

03:20:50.719 --> 03:20:56.680
currently in the DDC that requires a year wait period.

03:20:56.719 --> 03:20:57.680
It says it's zoning too.

03:20:57.719 --> 03:21:00.680
Okay.

03:21:00.719 --> 03:21:01.680
I can get back to you on that,

03:21:01.719 --> 03:21:03.680
but I think that if there is a wait period,

03:21:03.719 --> 03:21:06.680
then it would typically be 12 months

03:21:06.719 --> 03:21:08.680
from the date of the denial.

03:21:08.719 --> 03:21:13.680
So what I'm thinking is that because this is a code change,

03:21:13.719 --> 03:21:16.680
you know, we could initiate another code change

03:21:16.719 --> 03:21:19.680
as opposed to like a zoning change on a property.

03:21:19.719 --> 03:21:21.680
But I would like to clarify this

03:21:21.719 --> 03:21:25.680
because I don't want to prevent a change

03:21:25.719 --> 03:21:27.680
that's negotiated by the neighborhood

03:21:27.719 --> 03:21:31.680
and the developer from moving forth.

03:21:31.719 --> 03:21:36.680
But I do not think this current amendment is viable.

03:21:36.719 --> 03:21:38.680
You've hit the exact problem that I'm struggling with here

03:21:38.719 --> 03:21:41.680
because it's not only a DDC amendment,

03:21:41.719 --> 03:21:43.680
but it's an actual overlay amendment,

03:21:43.719 --> 03:21:45.680
which is a zoning document.

03:21:45.719 --> 03:21:48.680
So whether or not the 12 months comes into play

03:21:48.719 --> 03:21:50.680
is something that I'm going to have to look at.

03:21:50.719 --> 03:21:52.680
But the DDC typically does not have,

03:21:52.719 --> 03:21:53.680
of course, a waiting period.

03:21:53.719 --> 03:21:54.680
You can bring that any time.

03:21:54.719 --> 03:21:55.680
Okay.

03:21:55.719 --> 03:21:56.680
And I guess one final question.

03:21:56.719 --> 03:21:59.680
Since we are recommending to city council,

03:21:59.719 --> 03:22:01.680
if it doesn't get to city council

03:22:01.719 --> 03:22:06.680
and a new proposal is brought forth,

03:22:06.719 --> 03:22:08.680
that wouldn't have a 12-month time around, would it?

03:22:08.719 --> 03:22:12.680
No, as long as it's substantially different.

03:22:12.719 --> 03:22:14.680
So hearing that,

03:22:14.719 --> 03:22:18.680
I would like to move forward with my original motion

03:22:18.719 --> 03:22:21.680
to move to recommend denial to city council

03:22:21.719 --> 03:22:25.680
of the amendment to the overlay.

03:22:25.719 --> 03:22:29.680
Commissioner Dudowitz, please.

03:22:29.719 --> 03:22:30.680
You were speaking that direction,

03:22:30.719 --> 03:22:32.680
so I didn't hear all of your comment,

03:22:32.719 --> 03:22:36.680
but can you explain what you were looking at doing?

03:22:36.719 --> 03:22:40.680
So I just wanted to make sure with staff and legal

03:22:40.719 --> 03:22:44.680
that if we recommend denial tonight,

03:22:44.719 --> 03:22:49.680
that if a new plan is--

03:22:49.719 --> 03:22:53.680
a new amendment is negotiated between the neighborhood

03:22:53.719 --> 03:22:55.680
and the developer,

03:22:55.719 --> 03:22:57.680
that they could choose not to move forward

03:22:57.719 --> 03:22:58.680
with this amendment

03:22:58.719 --> 03:23:00.680
and they could bring another amendment to us

03:23:00.719 --> 03:23:04.680
without waiting a year or some amount of time.

03:23:04.719 --> 03:23:06.680
Okay, thank you.

03:23:06.719 --> 03:23:07.680
Manon, please.

03:23:07.719 --> 03:23:09.680
I'd like to clarify a couple of points.

03:23:09.719 --> 03:23:12.680
The first thing is if the Planning and Zoning Commission

03:23:12.719 --> 03:23:15.680
recommendation is that of denial,

03:23:15.719 --> 03:23:18.549
then the applicant can choose to withdraw their application

03:23:18.549 --> 03:23:18.680
.

03:23:18.719 --> 03:23:21.680
However, their other option is to proceed to city council

03:23:21.719 --> 03:23:24.680
and seek their final decision or determination.

03:23:24.719 --> 03:23:28.680
The issue that you have raised earlier

03:23:28.719 --> 03:23:31.680
was when does that clock start ticking

03:23:31.719 --> 03:23:34.680
should the city-- does it start ticking at city council?

03:23:34.719 --> 03:23:35.680
Absolutely it does.

03:23:35.719 --> 03:23:39.680
So the 12-year timeframe would kick in at that time,

03:23:39.719 --> 03:23:41.680
not at P&Z denial.

03:23:41.719 --> 03:23:44.680
Okay, thank you.

03:23:44.719 --> 03:23:47.680
Thank you, Manon.

03:23:47.719 --> 03:23:50.680
Okay, so we have a motion on the floor

03:23:50.719 --> 03:23:53.680
and we're looking for a second.

03:23:53.719 --> 03:23:54.680
I heard it up there.

03:23:54.719 --> 03:23:55.680
I thought--

03:23:55.719 --> 03:23:57.680
Well, I think he withdrew his motion

03:23:57.719 --> 03:24:00.680
technically and so--

03:24:00.719 --> 03:24:01.680
We need to clear the board.

03:24:01.719 --> 03:24:02.680
We need to clear the board.

03:24:02.719 --> 03:24:03.680
We need to clear the board.

03:24:03.719 --> 03:24:05.680
Okay, I apologize.

03:24:05.719 --> 03:24:07.680
We have a second from Commissioner Beck.

03:24:07.719 --> 03:24:11.680
I second Commissioner Taylor's vote.

03:24:11.719 --> 03:24:13.680
Thank you.

03:24:13.719 --> 03:24:15.680
If we have a first and a second,

03:24:15.719 --> 03:24:18.680
do we have any further discussion?

03:24:18.719 --> 03:24:19.680
Commissioner Bruegel.

03:24:19.719 --> 03:24:21.680
Thank you, Chair.

03:24:21.719 --> 03:24:26.680
Commissioner Taylor, I hear your strategy with this.

03:24:26.719 --> 03:24:27.680
Yeah.

03:24:27.719 --> 03:24:31.680
And I am going to vote for denial,

03:24:31.719 --> 03:24:34.680
but I don't want to scare EDR off either.

03:24:34.719 --> 03:24:37.680
I think this is-- it's promising.

03:24:37.719 --> 03:24:38.680
It's very promising

03:24:38.719 --> 03:24:40.680
and I'd like to see you guys come back again,

03:24:40.719 --> 03:24:43.680
but there are some major--

03:24:43.719 --> 03:24:49.680
There are some edits that need to be made to your project,

03:24:49.719 --> 03:24:51.680
I think, before I would be voting in favor of this.

03:24:51.719 --> 03:24:54.680
So I want you to know I don't want to scare you off, yeah,

03:24:54.719 --> 03:24:57.680
but I am going to vote for denial for this.

03:24:57.719 --> 03:24:58.680
Thank you.

03:25:03.719 --> 03:25:05.680
Any other discussion?

03:25:09.719 --> 03:25:12.680
Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board.

03:25:19.719 --> 03:25:23.680
The clarification, a vote for is to deny.

03:25:23.719 --> 03:25:25.680
Correct.

03:25:31.719 --> 03:25:34.680
Motion carries 6-1.

03:25:39.719 --> 03:25:42.680
The next item we have on our agenda tonight

03:25:42.719 --> 03:25:49.680
is going to be item Z15-0031,

03:25:49.719 --> 03:25:53.680
and I'm going to open the public hearing at this time.

03:25:53.719 --> 03:25:55.680
847.

03:25:55.719 --> 03:25:57.680
At 847.

03:25:57.719 --> 03:25:58.680
Thank you, Chairperson Strange.

03:25:58.719 --> 03:26:00.680
I'm going to ask Ross Colbittson, our senior planner,

03:26:00.719 --> 03:26:02.680
to make this presentation.

03:26:23.719 --> 03:26:46.680
[inaudible]

03:26:46.719 --> 03:26:47.680
Gotcha.

03:26:47.719 --> 03:26:48.680
Thank you.

03:26:53.719 --> 03:26:55.680
Thank you.

03:27:02.719 --> 03:27:04.680
Good evening, commissioners.

03:27:04.719 --> 03:27:06.680
The room's cleared out,

03:27:06.719 --> 03:27:09.680
and I want to thank the applicants of this project

03:27:09.719 --> 03:27:13.680
for holding on for tonight's presentation here.

03:27:13.719 --> 03:27:18.680
This is Z15-31, Cavender's Boot City.

03:27:18.719 --> 03:27:22.680
A request before you is to hold a public hearing

03:27:22.719 --> 03:27:24.680
with the recommended city council

03:27:24.719 --> 03:27:26.680
regarding a rezoning request

03:27:26.719 --> 03:27:31.680
from an industrial center employment ICE district

03:27:31.719 --> 03:27:36.680
to a regional center commercial downtown RCCD district

03:27:36.719 --> 03:27:39.680
on approximately 2.9 acres.

03:27:39.719 --> 03:27:44.680
The subject for the rezoning is located on the west side

03:27:44.719 --> 03:27:46.680
of the I-35 frontage road

03:27:46.719 --> 03:27:49.680
approximately 1,000 feet south of West University,

03:27:49.719 --> 03:27:52.680
which is Highway 380.

03:27:52.719 --> 03:27:54.680
If you want to look at the existing conditions,

03:27:54.719 --> 03:27:57.680
the property is zoned ICE,

03:27:57.719 --> 03:28:03.680
which was established with the 2002 rezoning for the city

03:28:03.719 --> 03:28:05.680
and incorporated the light industrial uses

03:28:05.719 --> 03:28:07.680
on the property.

03:28:07.719 --> 03:28:11.680
It also anticipated service uses such as office, warehouse,

03:28:11.719 --> 03:28:15.680
and hotel to support the larger ICG,

03:28:15.719 --> 03:28:18.680
which is Industrial Commercial General Zoning District,

03:28:18.719 --> 03:28:21.690
which is over to the west near the Denton Enterprise

03:28:21.690 --> 03:28:22.680
Airport

03:28:22.719 --> 03:28:27.680
and properties in between this and the airport.

03:28:27.719 --> 03:28:28.680
When we look at ICE,

03:28:28.719 --> 03:28:32.680
it does not permit general retail activity

03:28:32.719 --> 03:28:34.680
as general service use,

03:28:34.719 --> 03:28:39.680
but does permit retail as a limitation, L18,

03:28:39.719 --> 03:28:41.680
with our Denton Development Code,

03:28:41.719 --> 03:28:45.680
which limits retail to gas station uses only

03:28:45.719 --> 03:28:49.680
and even caps the square footage of retail

03:28:49.719 --> 03:28:52.680
to 10,000 square feet within those uses.

03:28:52.719 --> 03:28:54.680
However, RCCD,

03:28:54.719 --> 03:28:58.680
which is contrasted from the light blue of ICE

03:28:58.719 --> 03:29:01.680
to RCCD in the purple,

03:29:01.719 --> 03:29:09.680
permits retail and regional commercial uses by right.

03:29:09.719 --> 03:29:12.680
RCCD in its analysis

03:29:12.719 --> 03:29:13.680
is a zoning district

03:29:13.719 --> 03:29:17.680
that promotes mixed-use development with urban character,

03:29:17.719 --> 03:29:20.680
permits wide array of commercial and retail uses,

03:29:20.719 --> 03:29:24.680
and is used typically within the city of Denton

03:29:24.719 --> 03:29:25.680
as a zoning classification

03:29:25.719 --> 03:29:29.680
for regional commercial centers along the I-35E corridor.

03:29:29.719 --> 03:29:31.680
And in your staff report,

03:29:31.719 --> 03:29:38.680
I itemize kind of the sequence of regional retail activity,

03:29:38.719 --> 03:29:41.680
likely starting with the Razor Ranch areas

03:29:41.719 --> 03:29:46.680
going all the way down to the Denton Regional Hospital.

03:29:46.719 --> 03:29:50.680
When we look at adjacent uses to the proposed site,

03:29:50.719 --> 03:29:52.680
there is a gas station

03:29:52.719 --> 03:29:57.680
on the southeast southwest corner of 380 and University,

03:29:57.719 --> 03:29:59.680
380 and 35.

03:29:59.719 --> 03:30:02.680
We are processing building permits

03:30:02.719 --> 03:30:05.680
for a future vehicle repair

03:30:05.719 --> 03:30:09.680
just north, just south of the gas station.

03:30:09.719 --> 03:30:12.680
Next in line is a commercial warehouse storage area

03:30:12.719 --> 03:30:15.680
that has some retail activity to it

03:30:15.719 --> 03:30:21.680
in conjunction to the warehouse retail storage use.

03:30:21.719 --> 03:30:26.680
Below that is the anticipated proposed Cavender site.

03:30:26.719 --> 03:30:27.680
Professional office,

03:30:27.719 --> 03:30:30.680
there's a small little office complex,

03:30:30.719 --> 03:30:33.680
one-story office building further south,

03:30:33.719 --> 03:30:37.680
and then even further south of that is Light Manufacturing,

03:30:37.719 --> 03:30:41.680
which is off the spur of the railroad track,

03:30:41.719 --> 03:30:44.680
which kind of divides the site.

03:30:44.719 --> 03:30:46.680
When we look at that division,

03:30:46.719 --> 03:30:49.680
we can see that the railroad line is an appropriate divider

03:30:49.719 --> 03:30:54.680
between industrial land uses and commercial land uses.

03:30:54.719 --> 03:30:58.680
The rezoning is only for the 2.9 acres

03:30:58.719 --> 03:31:01.680
for the Cavender's retail store,

03:31:01.719 --> 03:31:04.680
adjacent uses to the south

03:31:04.719 --> 03:31:08.680
or property to the south is still currently zoned ICE,

03:31:08.719 --> 03:31:13.680
but I wanted to highlight that the city anticipates

03:31:13.719 --> 03:31:16.680
future retail activity in this area,

03:31:16.719 --> 03:31:22.680
and we would consider RCC an appropriate zoning district

03:31:22.719 --> 03:31:24.680
when such uses come into play.

03:31:24.719 --> 03:31:29.680
But as of now, the majority owner of this land

03:31:29.719 --> 03:31:34.680
wishes to maximize the availability of land and zoning

03:31:34.719 --> 03:31:39.680
to his benefit by not rezoning at this time.

03:31:39.719 --> 03:31:45.680
Land use per the didn't plan 2030

03:31:45.719 --> 03:31:49.680
indicates that this is a regional mixed use on this side

03:31:49.719 --> 03:31:51.680
on the east side of the railroad tracks,

03:31:51.719 --> 03:31:54.680
which is that dash dotted line.

03:31:54.719 --> 03:31:57.680
In west of the rail line is a category called

03:31:57.719 --> 03:31:58.680
Industrial Commerce,

03:31:58.719 --> 03:32:02.680
which meets the industrial uses on that side.

03:32:02.719 --> 03:32:05.680
So rezoning to RCCD is consistent

03:32:05.719 --> 03:32:07.680
with regional mixed use,

03:32:07.719 --> 03:32:12.680
and that's a very important future land use category.

03:32:12.719 --> 03:32:16.680
The considerations for the rezoning submitted to you

03:32:16.719 --> 03:32:19.680
that RCCD would permit commercial

03:32:19.719 --> 03:32:22.680
and retail uses without zoning limitations.

03:32:22.719 --> 03:32:25.680
RCCD zoning has been used

03:32:25.719 --> 03:32:29.680
as the predominant rezoning classification

03:32:29.719 --> 03:32:34.680
for regional commercial areas along I-35.

03:32:34.719 --> 03:32:37.680
The railroad line is an appropriate divider

03:32:37.719 --> 03:32:39.680
between industrial land uses

03:32:39.719 --> 03:32:40.680
and the commercial land uses

03:32:40.719 --> 03:32:43.680
with the frontage on I-35.

03:32:43.719 --> 03:32:45.680
And thus, reasonable development

03:32:45.719 --> 03:32:49.680
and economic pattern suggest using the I-35 frontage

03:32:49.719 --> 03:32:50.680
for commercial activity

03:32:50.719 --> 03:32:52.680
instead of industrial support services,

03:32:52.719 --> 03:32:57.680
and it is consistent with the future land use map.

03:32:57.719 --> 03:32:59.680
Staff uses the criteria for approval

03:32:59.719 --> 03:33:03.680
within the DIN development code 3534B2,

03:33:03.719 --> 03:33:05.680
which lists the two points there,

03:33:05.719 --> 03:33:07.680
and the staff finds that this request

03:33:07.719 --> 03:33:11.680
meets those criteria for approval.

03:33:11.719 --> 03:33:13.680
We did do public notifications,

03:33:13.719 --> 03:33:14.680
where as you can see,

03:33:14.719 --> 03:33:17.680
there was kind of limited properties.

03:33:17.719 --> 03:33:21.680
Most of them were just commercial viable properties.

03:33:21.719 --> 03:33:24.680
Four notices within 200 feet

03:33:24.719 --> 03:33:28.680
and five notices within 500 feet,

03:33:28.719 --> 03:33:32.680
and the one in favor was the majority property owner.

03:33:32.719 --> 03:33:34.680
So based on the considerations

03:33:34.719 --> 03:33:35.680
of the DIN development code,

03:33:35.719 --> 03:33:37.680
staff recommends approval,

03:33:37.719 --> 03:33:42.680
and I can stand for any questions you may have.

03:33:42.719 --> 03:33:47.680
Questions for staff?

03:33:47.719 --> 03:33:48.680
Thank you, Ross.

03:33:48.719 --> 03:33:51.680
Thank you.

03:33:51.719 --> 03:33:52.680
This is a public hearing.

03:33:52.719 --> 03:33:55.680
I do not have any cards on this item.

03:33:55.719 --> 03:33:57.680
If there's anyone that would like to speak,

03:33:57.719 --> 03:33:58.680
applicant or anyone else

03:33:58.719 --> 03:34:01.680
that would like to speak for or against this project,

03:34:01.719 --> 03:34:03.680
please approach the podium.

03:34:03.719 --> 03:34:05.680
Give your name and address,

03:34:05.719 --> 03:34:06.680
and if you do speak,

03:34:06.719 --> 03:34:08.680
please fill out a card for us.

03:34:08.719 --> 03:34:09.680
Thank you.

03:34:09.719 --> 03:34:10.680
Good evening, commissioners.

03:34:10.719 --> 03:34:11.680
My name is Juan Vasquez.

03:34:11.719 --> 03:34:12.680
The Vasquez Engineering,

03:34:12.719 --> 03:34:15.680
1919 South Shiloh Road,

03:34:15.719 --> 03:34:17.680
Suite 440, Garland, Texas.

03:34:17.719 --> 03:34:21.680
I'm a civil engineer for Cavenders Boots City.

03:34:21.719 --> 03:34:23.680
Cavenders is vested in the property

03:34:23.719 --> 03:34:25.680
as they own the property,

03:34:25.719 --> 03:34:28.680
and so they're committed to the site,

03:34:28.719 --> 03:34:31.680
and they've committed to myself,

03:34:31.719 --> 03:34:33.680
and to the project architect.

03:34:33.719 --> 03:34:36.680
They want a store open this year.

03:34:36.719 --> 03:34:38.680
We work closely with staff.

03:34:38.719 --> 03:34:40.680
We also work with the property owner

03:34:40.719 --> 03:34:42.680
who sold the property to Cavenders,

03:34:42.719 --> 03:34:46.680
and so they're in favor of our rezoning proposal.

03:34:46.719 --> 03:34:49.680
They're not ready to come in with us at this time

03:34:49.719 --> 03:34:51.680
because we're such in a hurry to get started,

03:34:51.719 --> 03:34:54.680
and we want to get the store open this year.

03:34:54.719 --> 03:34:56.680
If you have any questions you might have,

03:34:56.719 --> 03:34:58.680
also the project architect for Cavenders

03:34:58.719 --> 03:35:00.680
is also here with us today.

03:35:00.719 --> 03:35:04.680
Any questions for the applicant?

03:35:04.719 --> 03:35:05.680
No?

03:35:05.719 --> 03:35:08.680
Thank you, sir.

03:35:08.719 --> 03:35:10.680
Again, this is a public hearing.

03:35:10.719 --> 03:35:12.680
Anyone who would like to speak on this item,

03:35:12.719 --> 03:35:16.680
please come forward at this time.

03:35:16.719 --> 03:35:19.680
Seeing none, I will close the public hearing

03:35:19.719 --> 03:35:27.680
at 855 and open the floor for a motion or discussion.

03:35:27.719 --> 03:35:29.680
Commissioner Dudowitz.

03:35:29.719 --> 03:35:31.680
I move we approve the recommendation

03:35:31.719 --> 03:35:33.680
for the rezoning as submitted.

03:35:33.719 --> 03:35:35.680
Thank you.

03:35:35.719 --> 03:35:37.680
Commissioner Bribble.

03:35:37.719 --> 03:35:38.680
I'll second that.

03:35:38.719 --> 03:35:40.680
It seems like a smart location to put something like that

03:35:40.719 --> 03:35:42.680
right on the front engine next to Razor Ranch,

03:35:42.719 --> 03:35:45.680
so I'm in full support.

03:35:45.719 --> 03:35:46.680
I have a first and a second.

03:35:46.719 --> 03:35:52.680
Is there any further discussion?

03:35:52.719 --> 03:35:54.680
Seeing none, I call for a vote on the board.

03:36:00.719 --> 03:36:02.680
Motion carries 7-0.

03:36:02.719 --> 03:36:03.680
Congratulations.

03:36:03.719 --> 03:36:08.680
Hurry up and build it.

03:36:08.719 --> 03:36:13.680
Sorry we didn't change the order.

03:36:13.719 --> 03:36:14.680
Apologies.

03:36:14.719 --> 03:36:18.680
We're not done yet.

03:36:18.719 --> 03:36:23.680
All right.

03:36:23.719 --> 03:36:29.680
Moves us to our concluding items for this evening.

03:36:29.719 --> 03:36:31.680
Before we get to that, just as a point of order,

03:36:31.719 --> 03:36:35.680
I want to address something that we discussed on item 4A,

03:36:35.719 --> 03:36:38.680
and Commissioner Taylor's question.

03:36:38.719 --> 03:36:44.680
It looks like in 35.3.4.C.6 of the Denton Development Code,

03:36:44.719 --> 03:36:46.680
it would be a wait period,

03:36:46.719 --> 03:36:50.680
even though it's considered both the DDC amendment

03:36:50.719 --> 03:36:51.680
and the zoning document,

03:36:51.719 --> 03:36:53.680
they're all under the zoning amendment procedure,

03:36:53.719 --> 03:36:57.680
and that requires 12-month wait period after denial.

03:36:57.719 --> 03:37:00.680
Does that--that's after denial by city council?

03:37:00.719 --> 03:37:02.680
By city council, not PNZ.

03:37:02.719 --> 03:37:04.680
So they still are not in a position

03:37:04.719 --> 03:37:07.680
where they, like, tomorrow would have to wait 12 months

03:37:07.719 --> 03:37:09.680
to come up back with an adapted plan?

03:37:09.719 --> 03:37:10.680
Correct.

03:37:10.719 --> 03:37:13.680
They could actually withdraw their application at this time

03:37:13.719 --> 03:37:14.680
and avoid that.

03:37:14.719 --> 03:37:15.680
Okay.

03:37:15.719 --> 03:37:17.680
But if they would have council

03:37:17.719 --> 03:37:20.680
with their current plan and council denied it,

03:37:20.719 --> 03:37:21.680
then they'd have to wait 12 months

03:37:21.719 --> 03:37:22.680
before they could come back.

03:37:22.719 --> 03:37:25.680
And could they modify their plan as it goes to--

03:37:25.719 --> 03:37:26.680
Substantially.

03:37:26.719 --> 03:37:28.680
It has to be substantially modified.

03:37:28.719 --> 03:37:31.680
Could they modify their proposal

03:37:31.719 --> 03:37:34.680
before it goes to council?

03:37:34.719 --> 03:37:35.680
We would have to--

03:37:35.719 --> 03:37:36.680
I'm gonna bring it back here.

03:37:36.719 --> 03:37:38.680
--renotify that if there were any discrepancies

03:37:38.719 --> 03:37:40.680
or changes to what we've already noted.

03:37:40.719 --> 03:37:42.680
They would have to withdraw it and resubmit.

03:37:42.719 --> 03:37:44.680
Okay. All right.

03:37:44.719 --> 03:37:45.680
Commissioner Donovan.

03:37:45.719 --> 03:37:47.680
If I heard correctly, if they withdraw from--

03:37:47.719 --> 03:37:49.680
then they can start all over again?

03:37:49.719 --> 03:37:50.680
No timetable.

03:37:50.719 --> 03:37:51.680
Correct.

03:37:51.719 --> 03:37:52.680
Okay.

03:37:52.719 --> 03:37:53.680
Before council.

03:37:53.719 --> 03:37:54.680
Before council.

03:37:54.719 --> 03:37:55.680
Before.

03:37:55.719 --> 03:37:56.680
Right.

03:37:56.719 --> 03:37:58.680
They have to withdraw before council.

03:37:58.719 --> 03:37:59.680
Right.

03:37:59.719 --> 03:38:01.680
Because we're only recommending denial.

03:38:01.719 --> 03:38:03.680
So once it's officially denied, it's too late,

03:38:03.719 --> 03:38:05.680
they're gonna have to abide by the waiting period.

03:38:05.719 --> 03:38:06.680
Thank you.

03:38:06.719 --> 03:38:08.680
And just for future reference, this is--

03:38:08.719 --> 03:38:09.680
Mr. Tyler.

03:38:09.719 --> 03:38:10.680
Thank you, Chair.

03:38:10.719 --> 03:38:14.680
This is for any-- basically any zoning-related change.

03:38:14.719 --> 03:38:15.680
Any zoning-related change.

03:38:15.719 --> 03:38:16.680
Okay. Thank you.

03:38:16.719 --> 03:38:18.680
Or DDC amendment.

03:38:18.719 --> 03:38:19.680
Okay.

03:38:19.719 --> 03:38:22.680
[laughter]

03:38:22.719 --> 03:38:29.680
Okay. Back to concluding items featured in the--

03:38:29.719 --> 03:38:31.680
Commissioner Tyler.

03:38:31.719 --> 03:38:32.680
Thank you, Chair.

03:38:32.719 --> 03:38:34.680
As we discussed in work session,

03:38:34.719 --> 03:38:37.680
I'd like to see if staff could get--

03:38:37.719 --> 03:38:42.680
put together a proposal to amend the DDC parking standards

03:38:42.719 --> 03:38:47.680
for bike parking as appropriate.

03:38:51.719 --> 03:38:53.680
Commissioner Tyler, we will go ahead

03:38:53.719 --> 03:38:55.680
and revisit the parking standards

03:38:55.719 --> 03:38:58.680
to accommodate bike parking.

03:38:58.719 --> 03:39:00.680
I do want to apprise the commission

03:39:00.719 --> 03:39:03.879
that we are in the process of revising our scope of

03:39:03.879 --> 03:39:04.680
services

03:39:04.719 --> 03:39:07.680
to potentially-- again, this is still in discussion,

03:39:07.719 --> 03:39:13.680
so to potentially rework or revisit the amendment

03:39:13.719 --> 03:39:16.680
to the Denton Development Code.

03:39:16.719 --> 03:39:19.680
If this is an item that is of immediate urgency,

03:39:19.719 --> 03:39:21.680
we can go ahead and do that.

03:39:21.719 --> 03:39:24.680
But we do anticipate within the next few months

03:39:24.719 --> 03:39:29.250
or within another quarter to actually initiate that program

03:39:29.250 --> 03:39:29.680
.

03:39:29.719 --> 03:39:31.680
So if you would give staff the liberty to,

03:39:31.719 --> 03:39:33.680
one, revisit the matrix that's already established

03:39:33.719 --> 03:39:36.680
to see priority, and then with this,

03:39:36.719 --> 03:39:38.680
we can go ahead and start looking at this

03:39:38.719 --> 03:39:40.680
and inserting this as an immediate DDC amendment

03:39:40.719 --> 03:39:43.680
if that is the wish of the commission.

03:39:47.719 --> 03:39:48.680
All right.

03:39:48.719 --> 03:39:49.680
Do you have a wish now?

03:39:49.719 --> 03:39:50.680
Yes, please.

03:39:50.719 --> 03:39:53.680
[laughter]

03:39:53.719 --> 03:39:59.180
Well, it would be my wish that this be a small few

03:39:59.180 --> 03:40:00.680
sentences

03:40:00.719 --> 03:40:01.680
that can be quickly inserted.

03:40:01.719 --> 03:40:02.680
Noted.

03:40:02.719 --> 03:40:04.680
[laughter]

03:40:04.719 --> 03:40:05.680
Well done.

03:40:05.719 --> 03:40:11.680
[laughter]

03:40:11.719 --> 03:40:12.680
Commissioner Rossell.

03:40:12.719 --> 03:40:13.680
Thank you, Chair.

03:40:13.719 --> 03:40:15.680
Maybe Commissioner Taylor could provide an update to this.

03:40:15.719 --> 03:40:18.680
But this last project that came across,

03:40:18.719 --> 03:40:22.680
this ICE rezoning that's stripped to the west,

03:40:22.719 --> 03:40:24.680
seems like a perfect opportunity for the subcommittee

03:40:24.719 --> 03:40:27.680
that was formed to proactively get that rezoned.

03:40:27.719 --> 03:40:29.680
So I'd love to raise the priority

03:40:29.719 --> 03:40:30.680
of that subcommittee meeting

03:40:30.719 --> 03:40:33.680
so we can start getting stuff like this knocked out.

03:40:33.719 --> 03:40:36.680
I think it seemed like that's a low-hanging fruit

03:40:36.719 --> 03:40:38.680
that maybe we can attack.

03:40:38.719 --> 03:40:40.680
In fact, staff completely concurs.

03:40:40.719 --> 03:40:41.680
That is what we were talking about.

03:40:41.719 --> 03:40:43.680
And we're going to start scheduling a meeting

03:40:43.719 --> 03:40:45.680
and get this process going and initiate

03:40:45.719 --> 03:40:46.680
with one of these programs,

03:40:46.719 --> 03:40:48.680
this project that came forward.

03:40:48.719 --> 03:40:49.680
Not this project, but the surrounding project.

03:40:49.719 --> 03:40:50.680
Perfect.

03:40:50.719 --> 03:40:51.680
Thank you.

03:40:51.719 --> 03:40:53.680
Commissioner Burrell.

03:40:53.719 --> 03:40:55.680
Thank you, Chair.

03:40:55.719 --> 03:40:58.680
I found Julie Anderson's presentation riveting.

03:40:58.719 --> 03:41:00.680
I have waited five years to hear from a bike

03:41:00.719 --> 03:41:02.680
and pedestrian coordinator.

03:41:02.719 --> 03:41:06.680
So I would really like for her to come back sooner

03:41:06.719 --> 03:41:08.680
rather than later and for us to devote some time.

03:41:08.719 --> 03:41:11.680
I mean, for the other commissioners,

03:41:11.719 --> 03:41:14.680
you may have found a two or three page printed up handout

03:41:14.719 --> 03:41:17.680
that was--I compiled that after a meeting

03:41:17.719 --> 03:41:22.680
with two dozen or more cyclists of all abilities

03:41:22.719 --> 03:41:23.680
just last night.

03:41:23.719 --> 03:41:25.680
So there is clear community interest in this.

03:41:25.719 --> 03:41:28.680
So please, Julie Anderson, come back and talk to us

03:41:28.719 --> 03:41:30.680
because it's really important.

03:41:30.719 --> 03:41:33.680
Thank you.

03:41:33.719 --> 03:41:35.680
Commissioner Dudowitz.

03:41:35.719 --> 03:41:38.680
Manala, you indicated something you're working on.

03:41:38.719 --> 03:41:42.680
Does that include the commission's powers and duties

03:41:42.719 --> 03:41:43.680
that I raised the question about

03:41:43.719 --> 03:41:45.680
that you were going to find?

03:41:45.719 --> 03:41:46.680
We have researched that.

03:41:46.719 --> 03:41:48.680
In fact, a memo will be forthcoming

03:41:48.719 --> 03:41:49.680
to the Planning and Zoning Commission

03:41:49.719 --> 03:41:50.680
at the next meeting.

03:41:50.719 --> 03:41:51.680
Okay.

03:41:51.719 --> 03:41:53.680
But the current code says that we have certain duties.

03:41:53.719 --> 03:41:54.680
Does it--

03:41:54.719 --> 03:41:55.680
Yes.

03:41:55.719 --> 03:41:56.680
Okay.

03:41:56.719 --> 03:41:57.680
And it outlines what those duties are

03:41:57.719 --> 03:41:59.680
that it concurs with those duties

03:41:59.719 --> 03:42:01.680
in addition to what the next steps are.

03:42:01.719 --> 03:42:02.680
So it outlines the process.

03:42:02.719 --> 03:42:03.680
Okay.

03:42:03.719 --> 03:42:04.680
But there was another committee

03:42:04.719 --> 03:42:06.680
or somebody that was also looking at it?

03:42:06.719 --> 03:42:10.680
The Health and Building Standards Commission

03:42:10.719 --> 03:42:15.680
is a commission that is appointed by the City Council

03:42:15.719 --> 03:42:19.680
that if a building has been deemed hazardous or unsafe

03:42:19.719 --> 03:42:25.680
that through a process of revitalization,

03:42:25.719 --> 03:42:27.680
it is either fixed or it is demoed.

03:42:27.719 --> 03:42:30.680
But that's a separate--

03:42:30.719 --> 03:42:31.680
But you'll fill us in on that.

03:42:31.719 --> 03:42:32.680
Absolutely.

03:42:32.719 --> 03:42:33.680
And it's outlined in the memo

03:42:33.719 --> 03:42:34.680
that will come to you in--

03:42:34.719 --> 03:42:35.680
Thank you.

03:42:35.719 --> 03:42:38.680
--in the first meeting in February.

03:42:38.719 --> 03:42:40.680
Commissioner Beck.

03:42:40.719 --> 03:42:42.680
I mentioned in the workshop

03:42:42.719 --> 03:42:45.680
that I'm interested in getting Julie Anderson

03:42:45.719 --> 03:42:49.680
to spend some of her money on educating commercial interest

03:42:49.719 --> 03:42:50.680
to hit by--

03:42:50.719 --> 03:42:51.680
Would this be the--

03:42:51.719 --> 03:42:52.680
Commissioner Beck,

03:42:52.719 --> 03:42:55.680
can you make sure your microphone's on?

03:42:55.719 --> 03:42:56.680
Can you hear me?

03:42:56.719 --> 03:42:57.680
We have a problem with that chair.

03:42:57.719 --> 03:42:58.680
I think you need to get it to the microphone.

03:42:58.719 --> 03:42:59.680
I know.

03:42:59.719 --> 03:43:00.680
[laughter]

03:43:00.719 --> 03:43:01.680
It's always that chair.

03:43:01.719 --> 03:43:03.680
Anyway, let me restate.

03:43:03.719 --> 03:43:04.680
I say in the workshop,

03:43:04.719 --> 03:43:06.680
an interest in getting Julie Anderson

03:43:06.719 --> 03:43:08.680
to spend some of her money on educating--

03:43:08.719 --> 03:43:10.680
getting print literature made up

03:43:10.719 --> 03:43:12.680
to educate commercial interest

03:43:12.719 --> 03:43:13.680
in getting bike racks.

03:43:13.719 --> 03:43:14.680
Would this be the forum

03:43:14.719 --> 03:43:17.680
where we could set something like that in motion?

03:43:17.719 --> 03:43:19.680
Is she going to handle that on her own?

03:43:19.719 --> 03:43:22.680
She can make that part of her next presentation.

03:43:22.719 --> 03:43:23.680
Great.

03:43:23.719 --> 03:43:26.680
We could advise her of the, you know--

03:43:26.719 --> 03:43:27.680
Okay.

03:43:27.719 --> 03:43:28.680
--reminder of the discussion

03:43:28.719 --> 03:43:29.680
that occurred at the work session

03:43:29.719 --> 03:43:31.680
and see if she can incorporate that

03:43:31.719 --> 03:43:32.680
in her discussion,

03:43:32.719 --> 03:43:34.680
her second part of her discussion.

03:43:34.719 --> 03:43:35.680
Good.

03:43:35.719 --> 03:43:36.680
Just want to keep the fire burning on it.

03:43:36.719 --> 03:43:37.680
Thank you.

03:43:37.719 --> 03:43:40.680
Thank you.

03:43:40.719 --> 03:43:43.680
Seeing no other concluding items,

03:43:43.719 --> 03:43:47.680
we'll close the meeting at 9.05.

03:43:47.719 --> 03:43:48.680
Thank you.

03:43:48.719 --> 03:43:49.680
[inaudible]

03:43:49.719 --> 03:43:50.680
Yep.

03:44:07.719 --> 03:44:18.680
[no audio]

03:44:18.719 --> 03:44:20.680
It's 9.13

03:44:20.719 --> 03:44:23.680
and I'm going to call our work session back in order.

03:44:23.719 --> 03:44:25.680
Do we need a notice about--

03:44:25.719 --> 03:44:28.680
notice publicly in a quorum again?

03:44:28.719 --> 03:44:29.680
Or since we're--

03:44:29.719 --> 03:44:31.680
No, just work session.

03:44:31.719 --> 03:44:34.680
Just call our work session back in order at 9.13.

03:44:34.719 --> 03:44:36.680
And I think we have one other item

03:44:36.719 --> 03:44:38.680
that we're going to go through this evening,

03:44:38.719 --> 03:44:44.680
receive a report on item C.

03:44:44.719 --> 03:44:46.680
Right.

03:44:46.719 --> 03:44:47.680
If you recall, on December 9th,

03:44:47.719 --> 03:44:48.680
we kind of came forward to you

03:44:48.719 --> 03:44:51.680
and told you that this type of update was coming.

03:44:51.719 --> 03:44:53.680
The intent of Brent's presentation,

03:44:53.719 --> 03:44:54.680
that was item 2B,

03:44:54.719 --> 03:44:55.680
was he was going to kind of set the stage

03:44:55.719 --> 03:44:57.680
and tell you where we've been

03:44:57.719 --> 03:45:00.680
since the DME first came to you in 2013,

03:45:00.719 --> 03:45:01.680
for those of you that were here,

03:45:01.719 --> 03:45:02.680
and explain why all these substations

03:45:02.719 --> 03:45:03.680
are going to come forward.

03:45:03.719 --> 03:45:05.680
We've had quite a bit.

03:45:05.719 --> 03:45:06.680
We're not going to go into that.

03:45:06.719 --> 03:45:08.680
But this has really come out of that whole process.

03:45:08.719 --> 03:45:11.680
Council has asked us to look into this process

03:45:11.719 --> 03:45:13.680
of kind of bringing some requirements

03:45:13.719 --> 03:45:15.680
specific to substations.

03:45:15.719 --> 03:45:16.680
Just kind of go over this quickly.

03:45:16.719 --> 03:45:18.680
We're going to talk about existing requirements,

03:45:18.719 --> 03:45:20.680
what we've done.

03:45:20.719 --> 03:45:21.680
We're going to go into what that process means

03:45:21.719 --> 03:45:23.680
and what the new process is going to look like

03:45:23.719 --> 03:45:25.680
and that kind of framework.

03:45:25.719 --> 03:45:27.680
What that means to requirements of the DDC

03:45:27.719 --> 03:45:29.680
and lastly we'll get into the details

03:45:29.719 --> 03:45:30.680
of what these documents are

03:45:30.719 --> 03:45:33.680
that you received prior to the meeting.

03:45:33.719 --> 03:45:34.680
Currently substations are permitted

03:45:34.719 --> 03:45:36.680
only in the rural districts,

03:45:36.719 --> 03:45:38.680
employment districts, or industrial centers.

03:45:38.719 --> 03:45:40.680
It requires an SUP everywhere else,

03:45:40.719 --> 03:45:42.680
the neighborhood mixed use centers

03:45:42.719 --> 03:45:44.680
and the downtown university core.

03:45:44.719 --> 03:45:47.680
So most of the substations that we've all seen

03:45:47.719 --> 03:45:48.680
are in those districts.

03:45:48.719 --> 03:45:51.680
There are six, how can I write,

03:45:51.719 --> 03:45:56.680
seven that have been approved through an SUP already.

03:45:56.719 --> 03:45:57.680
And there are several more that were permitted

03:45:57.719 --> 03:46:01.680
in employment centers that you ought to never get to see.

03:46:01.719 --> 03:46:03.680
But we've done a lot of these SUPs.

03:46:03.719 --> 03:46:05.680
We've had consistent conditions throughout all of them

03:46:05.719 --> 03:46:07.680
and it's always been a 10 foot masonry wall

03:46:07.719 --> 03:46:09.680
on every substation.

03:46:09.719 --> 03:46:12.680
And then these weren't specific conditions of the SUP

03:46:12.719 --> 03:46:13.680
but with the site plans that were approved

03:46:13.719 --> 03:46:16.680
we saw consistent buffers to residential zones,

03:46:16.719 --> 03:46:18.680
comply with tree canopy coverage,

03:46:18.719 --> 03:46:20.680
their driveways were DDC requirements

03:46:20.719 --> 03:46:22.680
for some special considerations

03:46:22.719 --> 03:46:23.680
and they always provided sidewalks.

03:46:23.719 --> 03:46:27.680
So we're going to codify that to some degree.

03:46:27.719 --> 03:46:28.680
This is the existing process

03:46:28.719 --> 03:46:32.680
where that SUP falls into a VME process.

03:46:32.719 --> 03:46:34.680
The first thing they do is they develop several options

03:46:34.719 --> 03:46:37.680
for the site, typically three or four.

03:46:37.719 --> 03:46:39.680
They'll take all those options to a neighborhood meeting,

03:46:39.719 --> 03:46:41.680
a public open house,

03:46:41.719 --> 03:46:44.680
and they'll notice everybody in the ranges of those sites.

03:46:44.719 --> 03:46:46.680
Once they've kind of come up with taking that public input

03:46:46.719 --> 03:46:47.680
as well as their cost analysis,

03:46:47.719 --> 03:46:49.680
they'll take that to public hearings

03:46:49.719 --> 03:46:51.680
of the public utility board and city council.

03:46:51.719 --> 03:46:54.680
They pick a preferred site out of those three or four.

03:46:54.719 --> 03:46:56.680
They then give VME the power to go forward

03:46:56.719 --> 03:46:58.680
and negotiate a sales price.

03:46:58.719 --> 03:46:59.680
If they agree to a sale price

03:46:59.719 --> 03:47:02.680
where they ultimately have to come back for eminent domain,

03:47:02.719 --> 03:47:04.680
they have to go back to public utility board

03:47:04.719 --> 03:47:05.680
and city council for those purposes.

03:47:05.719 --> 03:47:07.680
Those are two public hearings.

03:47:07.719 --> 03:47:09.680
They go in, they purchase the site, they own it,

03:47:09.719 --> 03:47:10.680
they do the final site design,

03:47:10.719 --> 03:47:13.680
and then they come back to this board for an SUP,

03:47:13.719 --> 03:47:16.680
re-notice all the neighborhoods.

03:47:16.719 --> 03:47:18.680
And sometimes that could be years apart,

03:47:18.719 --> 03:47:20.680
and so at that time the neighborhoods

03:47:20.719 --> 03:47:21.680
forgot what's going on.

03:47:21.719 --> 03:47:23.680
It seemed to come back up that this SUP

03:47:23.719 --> 03:47:25.680
is whether this substation is going to go here or not,

03:47:25.719 --> 03:47:27.680
and it's really not in question anymore.

03:47:27.719 --> 03:47:29.680
It's really about the site design.

03:47:29.719 --> 03:47:31.680
And if they get the SUP, the site's constructed.

03:47:31.719 --> 03:47:34.680
So what we want to do with this process

03:47:34.719 --> 03:47:36.680
is kind of flip these around

03:47:36.719 --> 03:47:39.680
so that we're putting that notification

03:47:39.719 --> 03:47:41.680
that's equivalent to what they would do with an SUP

03:47:41.719 --> 03:47:44.680
prior to city council giving approval to purchase the site.

03:47:44.719 --> 03:47:48.680
And if they do that, then they no longer have to do an SUP

03:47:48.719 --> 03:47:49.680
but instead a site plan

03:47:49.719 --> 03:47:53.680
with some criteria that we're going to establish here.

03:47:53.719 --> 03:47:54.680
Can you go back to that, please?

03:47:54.719 --> 03:47:55.680
I'm sorry.

03:47:55.719 --> 03:47:56.680
Sure.

03:47:56.719 --> 03:47:57.680
So the top line is over here.

03:47:57.719 --> 03:47:58.680
Commissioner Dudowitz.

03:47:58.719 --> 03:48:00.680
Yes, the top line is what we're doing now.

03:48:00.719 --> 03:48:02.680
And then it comes down to the second line.

03:48:02.719 --> 03:48:03.680
This is what we're proposing.

03:48:03.719 --> 03:48:05.680
And I don't see P and Z in that process.

03:48:05.719 --> 03:48:06.680
Right.

03:48:06.719 --> 03:48:10.680
You'll have P and Z in terms of a site plan potentially.

03:48:10.719 --> 03:48:11.680
We'll get into that in a bit.

03:48:11.719 --> 03:48:13.680
But we're going to codify all these conditions

03:48:13.719 --> 03:48:14.680
that we've done through the seven SUPs

03:48:14.719 --> 03:48:16.680
so that hopefully we can take that out.

03:48:16.719 --> 03:48:17.680
But really the important factor

03:48:17.719 --> 03:48:19.680
is we're putting the public hearing process

03:48:19.719 --> 03:48:20.680
and all that notification input

03:48:20.719 --> 03:48:22.680
before the site's even purchased

03:48:22.719 --> 03:48:24.680
where it makes more logical sense.

03:48:24.719 --> 03:48:26.680
That's really what we're trying to do.

03:48:28.719 --> 03:48:30.680
So to do that, we're going to add a new use.

03:48:30.719 --> 03:48:31.680
We're going to pull it.

03:48:31.719 --> 03:48:32.680
Right now it's a basic utility.

03:48:32.719 --> 03:48:33.680
Everything, gas, water, electric,

03:48:33.719 --> 03:48:34.680
is a basic utility.

03:48:34.719 --> 03:48:35.680
We're going to pull it out

03:48:35.719 --> 03:48:36.680
and make a new use onto itself

03:48:36.719 --> 03:48:38.680
for substations and switch stations.

03:48:38.719 --> 03:48:39.680
We're going to add specific standards

03:48:39.719 --> 03:48:41.680
for screening, buffering, access.

03:48:41.719 --> 03:48:42.680
We'll get into all that.

03:48:42.719 --> 03:48:45.680
And we're going to create a site plan process.

03:48:45.719 --> 03:48:47.680
And then what we're adding is a new limitation

03:48:47.719 --> 03:48:48.680
in the zoning.

03:48:48.719 --> 03:48:50.680
So where it currently says an SUP is required,

03:48:50.719 --> 03:48:53.680
we're going to say an SUP is required

03:48:53.719 --> 03:48:55.680
unless you're part of a CIP master plan,

03:48:55.719 --> 03:48:57.680
unless you've done the public notification,

03:48:57.719 --> 03:49:00.680
and you have to have a site plan approved by P&Z.

03:49:00.719 --> 03:49:01.680
If you can't do all that,

03:49:01.719 --> 03:49:04.680
the SUP is still required.

03:49:04.719 --> 03:49:06.680
This is just what that limitation looks like.

03:49:06.719 --> 03:49:08.680
Again, the notice is the same thing as an SUP.

03:49:08.719 --> 03:49:09.680
200, 500 foot notices,

03:49:09.719 --> 03:49:10.680
a sign on the property,

03:49:10.719 --> 03:49:12.680
and actually neighborhood meetings required

03:49:12.719 --> 03:49:13.680
in this case too.

03:49:13.719 --> 03:49:17.680
So that's the A, B, and C.

03:49:17.719 --> 03:49:18.680
That's all in your backup that you were given

03:49:18.719 --> 03:49:20.680
if you want to look in more detail.

03:49:20.719 --> 03:49:23.680
How that looks visually, start here.

03:49:23.719 --> 03:49:25.680
If you've done the public notification,

03:49:25.719 --> 03:49:26.680
if you have not,

03:49:26.719 --> 03:49:27.680
you go to an SUP.

03:49:27.719 --> 03:49:29.680
Once that SUP is approved,

03:49:29.719 --> 03:49:31.680
then you get a billing permit through staff.

03:49:31.719 --> 03:49:32.680
If you did do all the notification,

03:49:32.719 --> 03:49:35.680
the 200, 500 neighborhood meeting,

03:49:35.719 --> 03:49:36.680
then you go to this box,

03:49:36.719 --> 03:49:37.680
and that's all the site design criteria

03:49:37.719 --> 03:49:40.680
that we're going to get to here in just a minute.

03:49:40.719 --> 03:49:41.680
If you meet all that,

03:49:41.719 --> 03:49:44.680
then the site plan can be approved by staff.

03:49:44.719 --> 03:49:46.680
If for some reason you cannot meet this criteria,

03:49:46.719 --> 03:49:48.680
then it has to come before you all for consideration,

03:49:48.719 --> 03:49:50.680
similar to an alternative development plan.

03:49:50.719 --> 03:49:54.680
It's kind of the same process.

03:49:54.719 --> 03:49:55.680
What this means is that the top process,

03:49:55.719 --> 03:49:57.680
because the notification has to be part of a CIP

03:49:57.719 --> 03:49:59.680
approved by council,

03:49:59.719 --> 03:50:00.680
because it has to be noticed

03:50:00.719 --> 03:50:03.680
that only DME can really do that top process.

03:50:03.719 --> 03:50:06.680
All the other private utilities like COSERV,

03:50:06.719 --> 03:50:10.680
they have to go the SUP route.

03:50:10.719 --> 03:50:12.680
Everybody tracking so far?

03:50:12.719 --> 03:50:14.680
Good.

03:50:14.719 --> 03:50:15.680
Commissioner Bruegel.

03:50:15.719 --> 03:50:16.680
Thank you, Chair.

03:50:16.719 --> 03:50:17.680
Public notification,

03:50:17.719 --> 03:50:19.680
are you talking about just the mailers?

03:50:19.719 --> 03:50:22.680
People, are we talking about a public hearing?

03:50:22.719 --> 03:50:25.680
It is notification that the public hearing

03:50:25.719 --> 03:50:27.680
is happening at PUB and City Council

03:50:27.719 --> 03:50:29.680
for the purchase of the site

03:50:29.719 --> 03:50:31.680
for specifically a substation.

03:50:31.719 --> 03:50:32.680
I see.

03:50:32.719 --> 03:50:33.680
Right.

03:50:33.719 --> 03:50:34.680
We're saying, everybody listen,

03:50:34.719 --> 03:50:35.680
we're buying the site.

03:50:35.719 --> 03:50:36.680
We want to put a substation here.

03:50:36.719 --> 03:50:37.680
Come out and tell us

03:50:37.719 --> 03:50:39.680
whether you think a substation is good or not

03:50:39.719 --> 03:50:40.680
before we even buy it.

03:50:40.719 --> 03:50:42.680
That's a great idea.

03:50:42.719 --> 03:50:44.680
The public hearing is going to happen now

03:50:44.719 --> 03:50:48.680
with the PUB and City Council

03:50:48.719 --> 03:50:50.680
and not through...

03:50:50.719 --> 03:50:52.680
wouldn't necessarily be looking for...

03:50:52.719 --> 03:50:53.680
on the top line,

03:50:53.719 --> 03:50:54.680
they wouldn't be looking for an SUP

03:50:54.719 --> 03:50:55.680
through planning and zoning.

03:50:55.719 --> 03:50:56.680
Correct.

03:50:56.719 --> 03:50:57.680
Okay.

03:50:57.719 --> 03:50:58.680
Thank you.

03:50:58.719 --> 03:50:59.680
And the reason for that is,

03:50:59.719 --> 03:51:00.680
I'm sorry,

03:51:00.719 --> 03:51:01.680
the reason for that is

03:51:01.719 --> 03:51:03.680
because in their current process

03:51:03.719 --> 03:51:04.680
they already do that.

03:51:04.719 --> 03:51:05.680
So once they've had their...

03:51:05.719 --> 03:51:07.680
they've vetted the property,

03:51:07.719 --> 03:51:09.680
they've met with the neighborhood,

03:51:09.719 --> 03:51:11.680
then they go back to the City Council...

03:51:11.719 --> 03:51:13.680
the PUB and the City Council

03:51:13.719 --> 03:51:14.680
saying this is the property

03:51:14.719 --> 03:51:16.680
we're going to purchase for the substation

03:51:16.719 --> 03:51:18.680
and then we've got an extra added step

03:51:18.719 --> 03:51:19.680
and then it says, okay,

03:51:19.719 --> 03:51:20.680
all that's done.

03:51:20.719 --> 03:51:21.680
City Council has agreed.

03:51:21.719 --> 03:51:23.680
PUB has agreed.

03:51:23.719 --> 03:51:25.680
The community neighborhood

03:51:25.719 --> 03:51:26.680
has been informed.

03:51:26.719 --> 03:51:28.680
Discussion has occurred.

03:51:28.719 --> 03:51:29.680
And then they come back in for an SUP

03:51:29.719 --> 03:51:32.680
which is another added public hearing step.

03:51:32.719 --> 03:51:33.680
And in this instance,

03:51:33.719 --> 03:51:35.680
because all that occurs,

03:51:35.719 --> 03:51:36.680
the public notification criteria

03:51:36.719 --> 03:51:40.680
are addressed and met beforehand.

03:51:40.719 --> 03:51:42.680
Does it really warrant...

03:51:42.719 --> 03:51:43.680
the statement we're making is

03:51:43.719 --> 03:51:45.680
does it really warrant to have

03:51:45.719 --> 03:51:48.680
the SUP specific use permit process

03:51:48.719 --> 03:51:50.680
occur at that point

03:51:50.719 --> 03:51:51.680
through another public hearing process?

03:51:51.719 --> 03:51:53.680
So the public has two opportunities

03:51:53.719 --> 03:51:54.680
two separate public hearings,

03:51:54.719 --> 03:51:56.680
one at PUB, one at City Council.

03:51:56.719 --> 03:51:57.680
If that moves forward,

03:51:57.719 --> 03:52:00.680
then the City will purchase the land

03:52:00.719 --> 03:52:03.680
and not before that public hearing process.

03:52:03.719 --> 03:52:05.680
Am I understanding that correctly?

03:52:05.719 --> 03:52:06.680
Yes.

03:52:06.719 --> 03:52:07.680
Okay. Thank you.

03:52:07.719 --> 03:52:09.680
A couple questions.

03:52:09.719 --> 03:52:10.680
Commissioner Rossell.

03:52:10.719 --> 03:52:11.680
Thank you.

03:52:11.719 --> 03:52:12.680
Can you go back one slide?

03:52:12.719 --> 03:52:14.680
Sure.

03:52:14.719 --> 03:52:16.680
So you're going to place a signed

03:52:16.719 --> 03:52:17.680
advertising public hearing

03:52:17.719 --> 03:52:19.680
on the property you haven't purchased yet?

03:52:19.719 --> 03:52:20.680
Yes.

03:52:20.719 --> 03:52:21.680
Is that legal?

03:52:21.719 --> 03:52:22.680
Same with the zoning case

03:52:22.719 --> 03:52:23.680
or...

03:52:23.719 --> 03:52:24.680
D&E already does this, right?

03:52:24.719 --> 03:52:26.680
So they go out and put signs

03:52:26.719 --> 03:52:27.680
on the property they're going to

03:52:27.719 --> 03:52:28.680
do negotiations with

03:52:28.719 --> 03:52:30.680
or looking to buy.

03:52:30.719 --> 03:52:32.680
Does this hinder the negotiation

03:52:32.719 --> 03:52:34.680
to say, "We're going to buy it."

03:52:34.719 --> 03:52:35.680
I mean, if I was the property owner

03:52:35.719 --> 03:52:37.680
and I knew all this has already happened

03:52:37.719 --> 03:52:38.680
and you have to buy it,

03:52:38.719 --> 03:52:41.680
I'm going to put a premium on that property.

03:52:41.719 --> 03:52:44.680
Are we losing some economic value here

03:52:44.719 --> 03:52:46.680
by identifying the site so explicitly?

03:52:46.719 --> 03:52:47.680
Let's take it back

03:52:47.719 --> 03:52:48.680
because there's another step

03:52:48.719 --> 03:52:49.680
before all that.

03:52:49.719 --> 03:52:51.680
The preferred site selection

03:52:51.719 --> 03:52:52.680
is right here.

03:52:52.719 --> 03:52:54.680
So we've got four or five options.

03:52:54.719 --> 03:52:55.680
We haven't agreed to a price.

03:52:55.719 --> 03:52:56.680
We haven't agreed to anything.

03:52:56.719 --> 03:52:57.680
We just say, "This is the one we want."

03:52:57.719 --> 03:52:58.680
Go and negotiate.

03:52:58.719 --> 03:52:59.680
They do negotiations

03:52:59.719 --> 03:53:01.680
before they notice it in public.

03:53:01.719 --> 03:53:02.680
So chances are they come back

03:53:02.719 --> 03:53:03.680
to counsel in a closed session

03:53:03.719 --> 03:53:05.680
and say, "Is this price okay?

03:53:05.719 --> 03:53:06.680
Do you want it?

03:53:06.719 --> 03:53:07.680
Can we move forward on it?"

03:53:07.719 --> 03:53:08.680
That's a closed session.

03:53:08.719 --> 03:53:09.680
Then they have to do a public hearing

03:53:09.719 --> 03:53:11.680
to the public to say,

03:53:11.719 --> 03:53:12.680
"We're agreeing to purchase this site

03:53:12.719 --> 03:53:13.680
for this price."

03:53:13.719 --> 03:53:15.680
The negotiations already happened.

03:53:15.719 --> 03:53:16.680
So before that sign goes

03:53:16.719 --> 03:53:18.680
in the yard of that property,

03:53:18.719 --> 03:53:20.680
that owner already has that deal?

03:53:20.719 --> 03:53:21.680
They've already negotiated

03:53:21.719 --> 03:53:23.680
and they've already domain it.

03:53:23.719 --> 03:53:24.680
That's helpful.

03:53:24.719 --> 03:53:26.680
Thank you.

03:53:26.719 --> 03:53:27.680
Commissioner Beck.

03:53:27.719 --> 03:53:28.680
Thank you, Chair.

03:53:28.719 --> 03:53:33.680
I'll put it back up to one more.

03:53:33.719 --> 03:53:34.680
Other way?

03:53:34.719 --> 03:53:35.680
Well, anyway,

03:53:35.719 --> 03:53:38.680
the initial public notification

03:53:38.719 --> 03:53:41.680
is met through just mayors.

03:53:41.719 --> 03:53:42.680
Right.

03:53:42.719 --> 03:53:43.680
Exactly like it's done through an SUP.

03:53:43.719 --> 03:53:45.680
Certified mail, 200 feet to property owners,

03:53:45.719 --> 03:53:47.680
500 feet, non-certified

03:53:47.719 --> 03:53:49.680
to fiscal addresses.

03:53:49.719 --> 03:53:52.680
It goes in public publications.

03:53:52.719 --> 03:53:53.680
Well, this isn't required in the newspaper,

03:53:53.719 --> 03:53:54.680
but every public hearing

03:53:54.719 --> 03:53:55.680
for city council requires a newspaper.

03:53:55.719 --> 03:53:56.680
It's still being handled.

03:53:56.719 --> 03:53:57.680
Okay.

03:53:57.719 --> 03:53:59.680
So it's not specifically called out

03:53:59.719 --> 03:54:03.680
in this one.

03:54:03.719 --> 03:54:04.680
So we can attract the idea

03:54:04.719 --> 03:54:05.680
of what we're trying to do,

03:54:05.719 --> 03:54:06.680
bring it all to the forefront.

03:54:06.719 --> 03:54:08.680
Okay.

03:54:08.719 --> 03:54:10.680
Now, I think this right here

03:54:10.719 --> 03:54:11.680
is going to be key

03:54:11.719 --> 03:54:13.680
because we've done this six times,

03:54:13.719 --> 03:54:14.680
so hopefully we've got to get a handle

03:54:14.719 --> 03:54:16.680
on what's been, what's approvable.

03:54:16.719 --> 03:54:18.680
Okay, so here's kind of the meat

03:54:18.719 --> 03:54:19.680
and bones of it.

03:54:19.719 --> 03:54:20.680
Here's the regulations.

03:54:20.719 --> 03:54:21.680
We're going to add these

03:54:21.719 --> 03:54:22.680
to SUP Chapter 24,

03:54:22.719 --> 03:54:23.680
which already exists

03:54:23.719 --> 03:54:25.680
for utility standards.

03:54:25.719 --> 03:54:26.680
We're going to add these sections

03:54:26.719 --> 03:54:27.680
and I'll kind of go through them

03:54:27.719 --> 03:54:29.680
one at a time.

03:54:29.719 --> 03:54:31.680
It's late, so it's the purpose.

03:54:31.719 --> 03:54:32.680
I won't get into all that detail,

03:54:32.719 --> 03:54:33.680
but if you have any questions

03:54:33.719 --> 03:54:34.680
about it, feel free to let me know.

03:54:34.719 --> 03:54:36.680
It's really just to add these standards

03:54:36.719 --> 03:54:37.680
and adopt some of the federal standards

03:54:37.719 --> 03:54:40.680
that were already in the code.

03:54:40.719 --> 03:54:41.680
Definitions.

03:54:41.719 --> 03:54:42.680
We're going to define a substation

03:54:42.719 --> 03:54:43.680
as basically any structure

03:54:43.719 --> 03:54:44.680
as part of a transmission system

03:54:44.719 --> 03:54:47.680
that routes voltage down

03:54:47.719 --> 03:54:48.680
for distribution

03:54:48.719 --> 03:54:51.680
into a local or regional area

03:54:51.719 --> 03:54:52.680
or conversion

03:54:52.719 --> 03:54:53.680
of two transmission lines.

03:54:53.719 --> 03:54:54.680
A switch station is basically

03:54:54.719 --> 03:54:55.680
the same thing.

03:54:55.719 --> 03:54:56.680
It just doesn't have

03:54:56.719 --> 03:54:57.680
any transformers to route the power.

03:54:57.719 --> 03:54:58.680
It's one voltage

03:54:58.719 --> 03:55:00.680
all the way through the station

03:55:00.719 --> 03:55:04.680
in case that wasn't clear.

03:55:04.719 --> 03:55:05.680
We're going to have

03:55:05.719 --> 03:55:06.680
some general regulations.

03:55:06.719 --> 03:55:07.680
This is really where

03:55:07.719 --> 03:55:08.680
the federal standards

03:55:08.719 --> 03:55:09.680
are going to get put in.

03:55:09.719 --> 03:55:10.680
NERC and NESC,

03:55:10.719 --> 03:55:11.680
the National Electric Safety Council,

03:55:11.719 --> 03:55:12.680
they're rules that DME

03:55:12.719 --> 03:55:13.680
is already following.

03:55:13.719 --> 03:55:14.680
We're just inserting them

03:55:14.719 --> 03:55:16.680
in this section.

03:55:16.719 --> 03:55:17.680
Then we're going to add

03:55:17.719 --> 03:55:18.680
the transmission line

03:55:18.719 --> 03:55:19.680
clearance easements

03:55:19.719 --> 03:55:23.680
for 69 kV and 138 kV.

03:55:23.719 --> 03:55:24.680
Part of this,

03:55:24.719 --> 03:55:25.680
I wish Brent had given

03:55:25.719 --> 03:55:26.680
the presentation before

03:55:26.719 --> 03:55:27.680
because he would have explained

03:55:27.719 --> 03:55:28.680
all this,

03:55:28.719 --> 03:55:29.680
but they're moving

03:55:29.719 --> 03:55:30.680
from a 68 kV system

03:55:30.719 --> 03:55:31.680
to a 138 kV system.

03:55:31.719 --> 03:55:32.680
That's the reason we're doing

03:55:32.719 --> 03:55:33.680
all these substations.

03:55:33.719 --> 03:55:34.680
They have higher voltage,

03:55:34.719 --> 03:55:35.680
therefore they require

03:55:35.719 --> 03:55:36.680
higher clearance zones.

03:55:36.719 --> 03:55:37.680
We're codifying those

03:55:37.719 --> 03:55:38.680
clearance zones

03:55:38.719 --> 03:55:40.680
that we're already enforcing today.

03:55:40.719 --> 03:55:41.680
What we're also doing

03:55:41.719 --> 03:55:43.680
is instead of preliminary

03:55:43.719 --> 03:55:45.680
final plan through subchapter B

03:55:45.719 --> 03:55:46.680
of the government code,

03:55:46.719 --> 03:55:47.680
we can do development plots

03:55:47.719 --> 03:55:48.680
at a staff level.

03:55:48.719 --> 03:55:49.680
We're going to make those plots

03:55:49.719 --> 03:55:50.680
for those substations,

03:55:50.719 --> 03:55:54.680
just a development plot.

03:55:54.719 --> 03:55:55.680
Going really fast.

03:55:55.719 --> 03:55:56.680
Are we still good?

03:55:56.719 --> 03:55:57.680
Okay.

03:55:57.719 --> 03:55:58.680
All right.

03:55:58.719 --> 03:55:59.680
Moving into screening,

03:55:59.719 --> 03:56:00.680
like with every condition

03:56:00.719 --> 03:56:01.680
of every SCP,

03:56:01.719 --> 03:56:02.680
we're going to require

03:56:02.719 --> 03:56:03.680
a minimum 10-foot

03:56:03.719 --> 03:56:04.680
masonry screening wall

03:56:04.719 --> 03:56:05.680
around the perimeter of the site.

03:56:05.719 --> 03:56:06.680
Outside of that screening wall,

03:56:06.719 --> 03:56:07.680
you have to have

03:56:07.719 --> 03:56:08.680
a 10-foot landscape area

03:56:08.719 --> 03:56:09.680
that includes ornamental trees

03:56:09.719 --> 03:56:13.680
and shrubs every 30 feet.

03:56:13.719 --> 03:56:14.680
We're going to require a gate

03:56:14.719 --> 03:56:15.680
that opaquely screens

03:56:15.719 --> 03:56:16.680
the interior of the site,

03:56:16.719 --> 03:56:17.680
and we're specifically

03:56:17.719 --> 03:56:18.680
prohibiting chain link

03:56:18.719 --> 03:56:20.680
as that fence material.

03:56:20.719 --> 03:56:21.680
You may have noticed

03:56:21.719 --> 03:56:22.680
that DME has chain link

03:56:22.719 --> 03:56:23.680
on their fences now.

03:56:23.719 --> 03:56:24.680
They're currently in the process

03:56:24.719 --> 03:56:27.680
of upgrading all those fences.

03:56:27.719 --> 03:56:28.680
We're going to require

03:56:28.719 --> 03:56:29.680
that they comply

03:56:29.719 --> 03:56:30.680
with all the federal standards,

03:56:30.719 --> 03:56:31.680
however, anywhere where

03:56:31.719 --> 03:56:32.680
the DDC is stricter,

03:56:32.719 --> 03:56:33.680
the DDC applies,

03:56:33.719 --> 03:56:34.680
not the federal standard.

03:56:34.719 --> 03:56:35.680
And if there's any

03:56:35.719 --> 03:56:36.680
special circumstances

03:56:36.719 --> 03:56:37.680
that exist,

03:56:37.719 --> 03:56:38.680
the Director of Development

03:56:38.719 --> 03:56:39.680
Services and his or her

03:56:39.719 --> 03:56:40.680
designated May Grant

03:56:40.719 --> 03:56:42.680
alternative screening measures.

03:56:42.719 --> 03:56:43.680
So in this case,

03:56:43.719 --> 03:56:44.680
it's going to be something like

03:56:44.719 --> 03:56:45.680
you haven't seen it yet,

03:56:45.719 --> 03:56:46.680
Hickory Substation.

03:56:46.719 --> 03:56:47.680
It's right next to a

03:56:47.719 --> 03:56:48.680
historic district.

03:56:48.719 --> 03:56:49.680
They met with the neighborhood.

03:56:49.719 --> 03:56:50.680
They agreed to this

03:56:50.719 --> 03:56:51.680
really elaborate wall

03:56:51.719 --> 03:56:52.680
that doesn't necessarily

03:56:52.719 --> 03:56:53.680
comply with what we've done here,

03:56:53.719 --> 03:56:54.680
but it was done through

03:56:54.719 --> 03:56:55.680
a lot of neighborhood input,

03:56:55.719 --> 03:56:56.680
so we're allowing the director

03:56:56.719 --> 03:56:57.680
in that case to approve

03:56:57.719 --> 03:56:58.680
what the neighborhood's

03:56:58.719 --> 03:56:59.680
already done

03:56:59.719 --> 03:57:03.680
at his or her discretion.

03:57:03.719 --> 03:57:04.680
Moving on,

03:57:04.719 --> 03:57:06.680
we've got the buffer requirements.

03:57:06.719 --> 03:57:07.680
Except when you're next

03:57:07.719 --> 03:57:09.680
to an industrial zone,

03:57:09.719 --> 03:57:11.680
a 20-foot buffer is required.

03:57:11.719 --> 03:57:12.680
The common includes

03:57:12.719 --> 03:57:14.680
five trees and 30 shrubs

03:57:14.719 --> 03:57:15.680
per 100 linear feet.

03:57:15.719 --> 03:57:16.680
That's kind of somewhere

03:57:16.719 --> 03:57:17.680
between a type C and a type D

03:57:17.719 --> 03:57:18.680
that you all are familiar with

03:57:18.719 --> 03:57:20.680
that's kind of in between.

03:57:20.719 --> 03:57:21.680
And then again,

03:57:21.719 --> 03:57:23.680
where special circumstances exist,

03:57:23.719 --> 03:57:24.680
the Director of Development

03:57:24.719 --> 03:57:25.680
may grant this

03:57:25.719 --> 03:57:26.680
alternative buffering.

03:57:26.719 --> 03:57:27.680
An example of this

03:57:27.719 --> 03:57:28.680
where the director might

03:57:28.719 --> 03:57:29.680
approve of it is when

03:57:29.719 --> 03:57:30.680
you're next to a flood plan,

03:57:30.719 --> 03:57:31.680
you've got a giant tree

03:57:31.719 --> 03:57:32.680
landscaped area already.

03:57:32.719 --> 03:57:33.680
There's no need to add

03:57:33.719 --> 03:57:34.680
an additional 20-foot

03:57:34.719 --> 03:57:39.680
to buffer the flood plan.

03:57:39.719 --> 03:57:40.680
Trees, again,

03:57:40.719 --> 03:57:41.680
these are already

03:57:41.719 --> 03:57:42.680
in the DDC.

03:57:42.719 --> 03:57:44.680
The street trees are required

03:57:44.719 --> 03:57:45.680
in accordance with

03:57:45.719 --> 03:57:46.680
Subject 13,

03:57:46.719 --> 03:57:47.680
which is where our SAC design

03:57:47.719 --> 03:57:48.680
criteria for standard

03:57:48.719 --> 03:57:49.680
development is.

03:57:49.719 --> 03:57:51.680
But street lights

03:57:51.719 --> 03:57:52.680
may be used in lieu of

03:57:52.719 --> 03:57:53.680
street trees provided

03:57:53.719 --> 03:57:54.680
at the same number

03:57:54.719 --> 03:57:55.680
and spacing.

03:57:55.719 --> 03:57:56.680
And these are not your big

03:57:56.719 --> 03:57:57.680
street lights.

03:57:57.719 --> 03:57:58.680
These are the ornamental

03:57:58.719 --> 03:58:01.680
pedestrian-sized lights.

03:58:01.719 --> 03:58:02.680
They are exempt from the tree

03:58:02.719 --> 03:58:04.680
code as they currently are.

03:58:04.719 --> 03:58:05.680
And we're looking into this.

03:58:05.719 --> 03:58:06.680
The tree code update

03:58:06.719 --> 03:58:07.680
is coming forward.

03:58:07.719 --> 03:58:08.680
So we're kind of looking

03:58:08.719 --> 03:58:09.680
at these to make sure

03:58:09.719 --> 03:58:11.680
they blend and match

03:58:11.719 --> 03:58:12.680
and are consistent.

03:58:12.719 --> 03:58:13.680
So that may be tweaked

03:58:13.719 --> 03:58:15.680
just a little bit.

03:58:15.719 --> 03:58:16.680
And then lastly,

03:58:16.719 --> 03:58:17.680
as required now,

03:58:17.719 --> 03:58:18.680
you have to comply

03:58:18.719 --> 03:58:19.680
with the tree canopy coverage

03:58:19.719 --> 03:58:25.680
per the zoning district.

03:58:25.719 --> 03:58:27.680
Access and transportation.

03:58:27.719 --> 03:58:28.680
The first rule is driveways

03:58:28.719 --> 03:58:30.680
can't be located across

03:58:30.719 --> 03:58:31.680
from the front yards

03:58:31.719 --> 03:58:32.680
of residential uses

03:58:32.719 --> 03:58:33.680
or districts,

03:58:33.719 --> 03:58:34.680
unless approved

03:58:34.719 --> 03:58:35.680
by the director.

03:58:35.719 --> 03:58:36.680
Primary access is limited

03:58:36.719 --> 03:58:37.680
to the lowest

03:58:37.719 --> 03:58:38.680
classification street.

03:58:38.719 --> 03:58:39.680
So if you have an arterial

03:58:39.719 --> 03:58:40.680
in a collector,

03:58:40.719 --> 03:58:41.680
you take it off the collector

03:58:41.719 --> 03:58:43.680
and take it off the arterial.

03:58:43.719 --> 03:58:44.680
No more than two driveways

03:58:44.719 --> 03:58:46.680
per each perimeter street.

03:58:46.719 --> 03:58:47.680
Your separation is per

03:58:47.719 --> 03:58:48.680
the transportation

03:58:48.719 --> 03:58:49.680
criteria manual.

03:58:49.719 --> 03:58:50.680
Driveways must be concrete

03:58:50.719 --> 03:58:51.680
from the back of the curb

03:58:51.719 --> 03:58:52.680
to the entrance of the site.

03:58:52.719 --> 03:58:53.680
No gravel driveways

03:58:53.719 --> 03:58:55.680
where the public can see it.

03:58:55.719 --> 03:58:57.680
And sidewalks are required

03:58:57.719 --> 03:58:58.680
with the development.

03:58:58.719 --> 03:58:59.680
Again, all this is already

03:58:59.719 --> 03:59:00.680
in place,

03:59:00.719 --> 03:59:01.680
just codifying it

03:59:01.719 --> 03:59:03.680
in this chapter.

03:59:03.719 --> 03:59:05.680
This is kind of a new one.

03:59:05.719 --> 03:59:06.680
This is kind of one

03:59:06.719 --> 03:59:07.680
of the federal standards

03:59:07.719 --> 03:59:09.680
from the NESC

03:59:09.719 --> 03:59:10.680
that you have to have

03:59:10.719 --> 03:59:11.680
a 20-foot clearance zone

03:59:11.719 --> 03:59:13.680
to go climbing aids

03:59:13.719 --> 03:59:14.680
for the security

03:59:14.719 --> 03:59:16.680
and safety of the site.

03:59:16.719 --> 03:59:18.680
We're going to mandate this

03:59:18.719 --> 03:59:19.680
for our code.

03:59:19.719 --> 03:59:20.680
You have to have a 20-foot site

03:59:20.719 --> 03:59:21.680
and you can't have landscape

03:59:21.719 --> 03:59:22.680
in it so long as

03:59:22.719 --> 03:59:23.680
it's properly maintained

03:59:23.719 --> 03:59:24.680
doesn't grow to a height

03:59:24.719 --> 03:59:25.680
that you could climb

03:59:25.719 --> 03:59:27.680
or scale the wall.

03:59:27.719 --> 03:59:29.680
Commissioner Hatchbuth.

03:59:29.719 --> 03:59:30.680
Thank you.

03:59:30.719 --> 03:59:32.680
Sidewalks.

03:59:32.719 --> 03:59:33.680
So generally they're going

03:59:33.719 --> 03:59:36.680
to be further out.

03:59:36.719 --> 03:59:38.680
I'm assuming the areas

03:59:38.719 --> 03:59:39.680
you're going to try to select

03:59:39.719 --> 03:59:41.680
are, but should there

03:59:41.719 --> 03:59:42.680
be some parameters there?

03:59:42.719 --> 03:59:44.680
It shouldn't just be a sidewalk

03:59:44.719 --> 03:59:46.680
in the middle of nowhere,

03:59:46.719 --> 03:59:47.680
right?

03:59:47.719 --> 03:59:48.680
For example, let's use

03:59:48.719 --> 03:59:50.680
the one on McKinney.

03:59:50.719 --> 03:59:51.680
The substation just finished.

03:59:51.719 --> 03:59:52.680
There's no sidewalk there.

03:59:52.719 --> 03:59:55.680
What would you envision

03:59:55.719 --> 03:59:56.680
that saying?

03:59:56.719 --> 03:59:57.680
What does that mean,

03:59:57.719 --> 03:59:58.680
sidewalk?

03:59:58.719 --> 03:59:59.680
Where would you put a sidewalk?

03:59:59.719 --> 04:00:00.680
How far does it have to go?

04:00:00.719 --> 04:00:01.680
Does it have to connect?

04:00:01.719 --> 04:00:03.680
All that is kind of already

04:00:03.719 --> 04:00:04.680
outlined in our

04:00:04.719 --> 04:00:05.680
Transportation Criteria Manual.

04:00:05.719 --> 04:00:06.680
So even if there are nothing

04:00:06.719 --> 04:00:07.680
to connect to,

04:00:07.719 --> 04:00:08.680
at some point those sites

04:00:08.719 --> 04:00:09.680
are going to develop.

04:00:09.719 --> 04:00:10.680
So McKinney is a great site.

04:00:10.719 --> 04:00:11.680
We've got the substation

04:00:11.719 --> 04:00:12.680
going in first,

04:00:12.719 --> 04:00:13.680
and now we've got two

04:00:13.719 --> 04:00:14.680
apartments going in

04:00:14.719 --> 04:00:15.680
the other side.

04:00:15.719 --> 04:00:16.680
And now we are having

04:00:16.719 --> 04:00:17.680
a long connection.

04:00:17.719 --> 04:00:18.680
So the plan is as all

04:00:18.719 --> 04:00:19.680
these sites develop

04:00:19.719 --> 04:00:20.680
we will get that connection.

04:00:20.719 --> 04:00:21.680
And the size,

04:00:21.719 --> 04:00:22.680
the placement location

04:00:22.719 --> 04:00:23.680
is all outlined

04:00:23.719 --> 04:00:24.680
in our street sections

04:00:24.719 --> 04:00:26.680
per street classification.

04:00:26.719 --> 04:00:31.680
So stand with McKinney.

04:00:31.719 --> 04:00:32.680
There just be a sidewalk

04:00:32.719 --> 04:00:33.680
that connects to nothing

04:00:33.719 --> 04:00:35.680
until everything else builds?

04:00:35.719 --> 04:00:36.680
That's correct.

04:00:36.719 --> 04:00:37.680
That's what we do.

04:00:37.719 --> 04:00:38.680
Have you seen the sidewalks

04:00:38.719 --> 04:00:40.680
from nowhere?

04:00:40.719 --> 04:00:41.680
And then no sidewalk,

04:00:41.719 --> 04:00:42.680
and then everything builds in

04:00:42.719 --> 04:00:43.680
and there's a gap

04:00:43.719 --> 04:00:44.680
because they didn't

04:00:44.719 --> 04:00:45.680
build the sidewalk

04:00:45.719 --> 04:00:46.680
ten years ago.

04:00:46.719 --> 04:00:48.680
Are you sure?

04:00:48.719 --> 04:00:50.680
Because cement shifts, right?

04:00:50.719 --> 04:00:51.680
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong,

04:00:51.719 --> 04:00:52.680
but it shifts.

04:00:52.719 --> 04:00:54.680
It doesn't play well

04:00:54.719 --> 04:00:55.680
with each other.

04:00:55.719 --> 04:00:57.680
It needs to be,

04:00:57.719 --> 04:00:58.680
you know what I mean?

04:00:58.719 --> 04:01:01.680
It doesn't work.

04:01:01.719 --> 04:01:02.680
I mean, I've learned trial and error.

04:01:02.719 --> 04:01:03.680
I'm not a builder.

04:01:03.719 --> 04:01:04.680
I've just seen it.

04:01:04.719 --> 04:01:05.680
They put what's called

04:01:05.719 --> 04:01:06.680
expansion joints in there.

04:01:06.719 --> 04:01:07.680
But it just,

04:01:07.719 --> 04:01:08.680
am I wrong?

04:01:08.719 --> 04:01:09.680
I mean,

04:01:09.719 --> 04:01:10.680
I want to make sure

04:01:10.719 --> 04:01:11.680
that it doesn't play well

04:01:11.719 --> 04:01:12.680
with each other.

04:01:12.719 --> 04:01:13.680
Sure, it sounds like you're sitting

04:01:13.719 --> 04:01:14.680
in one of our Thursday meetings

04:01:14.719 --> 04:01:15.680
with applicants.

04:01:15.719 --> 04:01:16.680
We hear that all the time.

04:01:16.719 --> 04:01:17.680
It's true,

04:01:17.719 --> 04:01:18.680
but you do have to start somewhere.

04:01:18.719 --> 04:01:19.680
I jacked up my house

04:01:19.719 --> 04:01:20.680
by putting a porch

04:01:20.719 --> 04:01:21.680
and they don't play well

04:01:21.719 --> 04:01:22.680
with each other.

04:01:22.719 --> 04:01:23.680
I mean, and I'm like,

04:01:23.719 --> 04:01:24.680
what's happening?

04:01:24.719 --> 04:01:25.680
It's cement.

04:01:25.719 --> 04:01:26.680
It's a fair point.

04:01:26.719 --> 04:01:27.680
We deal with that all the time.

04:01:27.719 --> 04:01:28.680
We do have to start somewhere.

04:01:28.719 --> 04:01:29.680
We typically are pretty standard

04:01:29.719 --> 04:01:30.680
about making them put it in.

04:01:30.719 --> 04:01:32.680
But there are cases where,

04:01:32.719 --> 04:01:33.680
like say you're building

04:01:33.719 --> 04:01:34.680
a single-family house

04:01:34.719 --> 04:01:35.680
in an established neighborhood

04:01:35.719 --> 04:01:36.680
that has no sidewalks.

04:01:36.719 --> 04:01:38.680
The engineering department

04:01:38.719 --> 04:01:39.680
will take a payment

04:01:39.719 --> 04:01:40.680
and move the building

04:01:40.719 --> 04:01:41.680
in that sidewalk.

04:01:41.719 --> 04:01:42.680
So that at some point in the future

04:01:42.719 --> 04:01:43.680
we may come in

04:01:43.719 --> 04:01:44.680
and put it in ourself.

04:01:44.719 --> 04:01:45.680
Well, and so that would be

04:01:45.719 --> 04:01:46.680
my question.

04:01:46.719 --> 04:01:47.680
Is there not a better work around

04:01:47.719 --> 04:01:48.680
to say, hey, look,

04:01:48.719 --> 04:01:49.680
we're going to allocate

04:01:49.719 --> 04:01:50.680
this budget hard and fast

04:01:50.719 --> 04:01:52.680
for this sidewalk

04:01:52.719 --> 04:01:53.680
once everything,

04:01:53.719 --> 04:01:55.680
once there's three quarters

04:01:55.719 --> 04:01:56.680
or whatever,

04:01:56.719 --> 04:01:57.680
such that it can connect

04:01:57.719 --> 04:01:58.680
to something,

04:01:58.719 --> 04:01:59.680
but a sidewalk

04:01:59.719 --> 04:02:00.680
in the middle of nowhere

04:02:00.719 --> 04:02:01.680
that you're then going

04:02:01.719 --> 04:02:02.680
to connect other sidewalks

04:02:02.719 --> 04:02:03.680
to and they're going to fight

04:02:03.719 --> 04:02:04.680
doesn't,

04:02:04.719 --> 04:02:05.680
it doesn't seem like

04:02:05.719 --> 04:02:06.680
a good use of resource.

04:02:06.719 --> 04:02:07.680
For example,

04:02:07.719 --> 04:02:08.680
I mean, there's no one

04:02:08.719 --> 04:02:09.680
walking right there

04:02:09.719 --> 04:02:10.680
on McKinney right now.

04:02:10.719 --> 04:02:11.680
So you'd have this one patch

04:02:11.719 --> 04:02:13.680
where there's nothing going on.

04:02:13.719 --> 04:02:14.680
That is,

04:02:14.719 --> 04:02:15.680
that's like

04:02:15.719 --> 04:02:17.680
throwing money out the window to me.

04:02:17.719 --> 04:02:18.680
I'm just,

04:02:18.719 --> 04:02:20.680
I don't know.

04:02:20.719 --> 04:02:21.680
I don't know.

04:02:21.719 --> 04:02:22.680
There's got to be a better way.

04:02:22.719 --> 04:02:23.680
Mr. Gerrard.

04:02:23.719 --> 04:02:24.680
Commissioner Dudowitz.

04:02:24.719 --> 04:02:25.680
I built the property

04:02:25.719 --> 04:02:27.680
in 2005

04:02:27.719 --> 04:02:30.680
on University Drive East.

04:02:30.719 --> 04:02:32.680
I had to put a sidewalk in.

04:02:32.719 --> 04:02:34.680
Properties on both sides

04:02:34.719 --> 04:02:36.680
don't have any.

04:02:36.719 --> 04:02:37.680
Not only that,

04:02:37.719 --> 04:02:39.680
but I had to put in a

04:02:39.719 --> 04:02:41.680
frontage entrance exit.

04:02:41.719 --> 04:02:43.680
So in case we wanted,

04:02:43.719 --> 04:02:44.680
they wanted to route traffic.

04:02:44.719 --> 04:02:45.680
So in my property,

04:02:45.719 --> 04:02:48.680
I have a street in front of me

04:02:48.719 --> 04:02:50.680
with parking,

04:02:50.719 --> 04:02:53.680
one of those blocks or whatever.

04:02:53.719 --> 04:02:54.680
And it looks like

04:02:54.719 --> 04:02:55.680
a road that would go,

04:02:55.719 --> 04:02:56.680
but it doesn't.

04:02:56.719 --> 04:02:57.680
And I have a sidewalk

04:02:57.719 --> 04:02:58.680
in front of me.

04:02:58.719 --> 04:02:59.680
Nobody on the other side of me has.

04:02:59.719 --> 04:03:01.680
And I had to put those in.

04:03:01.719 --> 04:03:02.680
Yeah, no, I mean,

04:03:02.719 --> 04:03:03.680
I would just,

04:03:03.719 --> 04:03:04.680
I mean, again,

04:03:04.719 --> 04:03:05.680
if I have any say so in it,

04:03:05.719 --> 04:03:06.680
I would urge

04:03:06.719 --> 04:03:07.680
that I would put a sidewalk

04:03:07.719 --> 04:03:08.680
in front of me.

04:03:08.719 --> 04:03:09.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:09.719 --> 04:03:10.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:10.719 --> 04:03:11.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:11.719 --> 04:03:12.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:12.719 --> 04:03:13.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:13.719 --> 04:03:14.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:14.719 --> 04:03:15.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:15.719 --> 04:03:16.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:16.719 --> 04:03:17.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:17.719 --> 04:03:18.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:18.719 --> 04:03:19.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:19.719 --> 04:03:20.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:20.719 --> 04:03:21.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:21.719 --> 04:03:22.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:22.719 --> 04:03:23.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:23.719 --> 04:03:24.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:24.719 --> 04:03:25.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:25.719 --> 04:03:26.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:26.719 --> 04:03:27.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:27.719 --> 04:03:28.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:28.719 --> 04:03:29.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:29.719 --> 04:03:30.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:30.719 --> 04:03:36.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:36.719 --> 04:03:37.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:37.719 --> 04:03:38.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:38.719 --> 04:03:39.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:39.719 --> 04:03:40.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:40.719 --> 04:03:41.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:41.719 --> 04:03:42.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:42.719 --> 04:03:43.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:43.719 --> 04:03:44.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:44.719 --> 04:03:45.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:45.719 --> 04:03:46.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:46.719 --> 04:03:47.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:47.719 --> 04:03:48.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:48.719 --> 04:03:49.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:49.719 --> 04:03:50.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:50.719 --> 04:03:51.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:51.719 --> 04:03:52.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:52.719 --> 04:03:53.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:53.719 --> 04:03:54.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:54.719 --> 04:03:55.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:55.719 --> 04:03:56.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:56.719 --> 04:03:57.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:57.719 --> 04:03:58.680
I mean, I would just

04:03:58.719 --> 04:03:59.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:03:59.719 --> 04:04:00.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:00.719 --> 04:04:01.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:01.719 --> 04:04:02.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:02.719 --> 04:04:03.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:03.719 --> 04:04:04.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:04.719 --> 04:04:05.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:05.719 --> 04:04:06.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:06.719 --> 04:04:07.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:07.719 --> 04:04:08.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:08.719 --> 04:04:09.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:09.719 --> 04:04:10.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:10.719 --> 04:04:11.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:11.719 --> 04:04:12.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:12.719 --> 04:04:13.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:13.719 --> 04:04:14.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:14.719 --> 04:04:15.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:15.719 --> 04:04:16.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:16.719 --> 04:04:17.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:17.719 --> 04:04:18.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:18.719 --> 04:04:19.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:19.719 --> 04:04:20.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:20.719 --> 04:04:21.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:21.719 --> 04:04:22.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:22.719 --> 04:04:23.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:23.719 --> 04:04:29.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:29.719 --> 04:04:30.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:30.719 --> 04:04:31.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:31.719 --> 04:04:32.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:32.719 --> 04:04:33.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:33.719 --> 04:04:34.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:34.719 --> 04:04:35.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:35.719 --> 04:04:36.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:36.719 --> 04:04:37.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:37.719 --> 04:04:38.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:38.719 --> 04:04:39.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:39.719 --> 04:04:40.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:40.719 --> 04:04:41.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:41.719 --> 04:04:42.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:42.719 --> 04:04:43.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:43.719 --> 04:04:44.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:44.719 --> 04:04:45.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:45.719 --> 04:04:46.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:46.719 --> 04:04:47.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:47.719 --> 04:04:48.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:48.719 --> 04:04:49.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:49.719 --> 04:04:50.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:50.719 --> 04:04:51.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:51.719 --> 04:04:52.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:52.719 --> 04:04:53.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:53.719 --> 04:04:54.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:54.719 --> 04:04:55.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:55.719 --> 04:04:56.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:56.719 --> 04:04:57.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:57.719 --> 04:04:58.680
I mean, I would just

04:04:58.719 --> 04:04:59.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:04:59.719 --> 04:05:00.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:00.719 --> 04:05:01.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:01.719 --> 04:05:02.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:02.719 --> 04:05:03.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:03.719 --> 04:05:04.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:04.719 --> 04:05:05.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:05.719 --> 04:05:06.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:06.719 --> 04:05:07.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:07.719 --> 04:05:08.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:08.719 --> 04:05:09.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:09.719 --> 04:05:10.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:10.719 --> 04:05:11.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:11.719 --> 04:05:12.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:12.719 --> 04:05:13.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:13.719 --> 04:05:14.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:14.719 --> 04:05:15.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:15.719 --> 04:05:16.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:16.719 --> 04:05:22.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:22.719 --> 04:05:23.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:23.719 --> 04:05:24.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:24.719 --> 04:05:25.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:25.719 --> 04:05:26.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:26.719 --> 04:05:27.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:27.719 --> 04:05:28.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:28.719 --> 04:05:29.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:29.719 --> 04:05:30.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:30.719 --> 04:05:31.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:31.719 --> 04:05:32.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:32.719 --> 04:05:33.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:33.719 --> 04:05:34.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:34.719 --> 04:05:35.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:35.719 --> 04:05:36.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:36.719 --> 04:05:37.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:37.719 --> 04:05:38.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:38.719 --> 04:05:39.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:39.719 --> 04:05:40.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:40.719 --> 04:05:41.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:41.719 --> 04:05:42.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:42.719 --> 04:05:43.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:43.719 --> 04:05:44.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:44.719 --> 04:05:45.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:45.719 --> 04:05:46.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:46.719 --> 04:05:47.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:47.719 --> 04:05:48.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:48.719 --> 04:05:49.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:49.719 --> 04:05:50.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:50.719 --> 04:05:51.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:51.719 --> 04:05:52.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:52.719 --> 04:05:53.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:53.719 --> 04:05:54.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:54.719 --> 04:05:55.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:55.719 --> 04:05:56.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:56.719 --> 04:05:57.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:57.719 --> 04:05:58.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:05:58.719 --> 04:05:59.680
I mean, I would just

04:05:59.719 --> 04:06:00.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:06:00.719 --> 04:06:01.680
I mean, I would just

04:06:01.719 --> 04:06:02.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:06:02.719 --> 04:06:03.680
I mean, I would just

04:06:03.719 --> 04:06:04.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:06:04.719 --> 04:06:05.680
I mean, I would just

04:06:05.719 --> 04:06:06.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:06:06.719 --> 04:06:07.680
I mean, I would just

04:06:07.719 --> 04:06:08.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:06:08.719 --> 04:06:09.680
I mean, I would just

04:06:09.719 --> 04:06:15.680
put a sidewalk in front of me.

04:06:15.719 --> 04:06:16.680
>> Okay.

04:06:16.719 --> 04:06:17.680
>> Okay.

04:06:17.719 --> 04:06:18.680
>> Okay.

04:06:18.719 --> 04:06:19.680
>> Okay.

04:06:19.719 --> 04:06:20.680
>> Okay.

04:06:20.719 --> 04:06:21.680
>> Okay.

04:06:21.719 --> 04:06:22.680
>> Okay.

04:06:22.719 --> 04:06:23.680
>> Okay.

04:06:23.719 --> 04:06:24.680
>> Okay.

04:06:24.719 --> 04:06:25.680
>> Okay.

04:06:25.719 --> 04:06:26.680
>> Okay.

04:06:26.719 --> 04:06:27.680
>> Okay.

04:06:27.719 --> 04:06:28.680
>> Okay.

04:06:28.719 --> 04:06:29.680
>> Okay.

04:06:29.719 --> 04:06:30.680
>> Okay.

04:06:30.719 --> 04:06:31.680
>> Okay.

04:06:31.719 --> 04:06:32.680
>> Okay.

04:06:32.719 --> 04:06:33.680
>> Okay.

04:06:33.719 --> 04:06:34.680
>> Okay.

04:06:34.719 --> 04:06:35.680
>> Okay.

04:06:35.719 --> 04:06:36.680
>> Okay.

04:06:36.719 --> 04:06:37.680
>> Okay.

04:06:37.719 --> 04:06:38.680
>> Okay.

04:06:38.719 --> 04:06:39.680
>> Okay.

04:06:39.719 --> 04:06:40.680
>> Okay.

04:06:40.719 --> 04:06:41.680
>> Okay.

04:06:41.719 --> 04:06:42.680
>> Okay.

04:06:42.719 --> 04:06:43.680
>> Okay.

04:06:43.719 --> 04:06:44.680
>> Okay.

04:06:44.719 --> 04:06:45.680
>> Okay.

04:06:45.719 --> 04:06:46.680
>> Okay.

04:06:46.719 --> 04:06:47.680
>> Okay.

04:06:47.719 --> 04:06:48.680
>> Okay.

04:06:48.719 --> 04:06:49.680
>> Okay.

04:06:49.719 --> 04:06:50.680
>> Okay.

04:06:50.719 --> 04:06:51.680
>> Okay.

04:06:51.719 --> 04:06:52.680
>> Okay.

04:06:52.719 --> 04:06:53.680
>> Okay.

04:06:53.719 --> 04:06:54.680
>> Okay.

04:06:54.719 --> 04:06:55.680
>> Okay.

04:06:55.719 --> 04:06:56.680
>> Okay.

04:06:56.719 --> 04:06:57.680
>> Okay.

04:06:57.719 --> 04:06:58.680
>> Okay.

04:06:58.719 --> 04:06:59.680
>> Okay.

04:06:59.719 --> 04:07:00.680
>> Okay.

04:07:00.719 --> 04:07:01.680
>> Okay.

04:07:01.719 --> 04:07:02.680
>> Okay.

04:07:02.719 --> 04:07:03.680
>> Okay.

04:07:03.719 --> 04:07:04.680
>> Okay.

04:07:04.719 --> 04:07:05.680
>> Okay.

04:07:05.719 --> 04:07:06.680
>> Okay.

04:07:06.719 --> 04:07:07.680
>> Okay.

04:07:07.719 --> 04:07:08.680
>> Okay.

04:07:08.719 --> 04:07:09.680
>> Okay.

04:07:09.719 --> 04:07:10.680
>> Okay.

04:07:10.719 --> 04:07:11.680
>> Okay.

04:07:11.719 --> 04:07:12.680
>> Okay.

04:07:12.719 --> 04:07:13.680
>> Okay.

04:07:13.719 --> 04:07:14.680
>> Okay.

04:07:14.719 --> 04:07:15.680
>> Okay.

04:07:15.719 --> 04:07:16.680
>> Okay.

04:07:16.719 --> 04:07:17.680
>> Okay.

04:07:17.719 --> 04:07:18.680
>> Okay.

04:07:18.719 --> 04:07:19.680
>> Okay.

04:07:19.719 --> 04:07:20.680
>> Okay.

04:07:20.719 --> 04:07:21.680
>> Okay.

04:07:21.719 --> 04:07:22.680
>> Okay.

04:07:22.719 --> 04:07:23.680
>> Okay.

04:07:23.719 --> 04:07:24.680
>> Okay.

04:07:24.719 --> 04:07:25.680
>> Okay.

04:07:25.719 --> 04:07:26.680
>> Okay.

04:07:26.719 --> 04:07:27.680
>> Okay.

04:07:27.719 --> 04:07:28.680
>> Okay.

04:07:28.719 --> 04:07:29.680
>> Okay.

04:07:29.719 --> 04:07:30.680
>> Okay.

04:07:30.719 --> 04:07:31.680
>> Okay.

04:07:31.719 --> 04:07:32.680
>> Okay.

04:07:32.719 --> 04:07:33.680
>> Okay.

04:07:33.719 --> 04:07:34.680
>> Okay.

04:07:34.719 --> 04:07:35.680
>> Okay.

04:07:35.719 --> 04:07:36.680
>> Okay.

04:07:36.719 --> 04:07:37.680
>> Okay.

04:07:37.719 --> 04:07:38.680
>> Okay.

04:07:38.719 --> 04:07:39.680
>> Okay.

04:07:39.719 --> 04:07:40.680
>> Okay.

04:07:40.719 --> 04:07:41.680
>> Okay.

04:07:41.719 --> 04:07:42.680
>> Okay.

04:07:42.719 --> 04:07:43.680
>> Okay.

04:07:43.719 --> 04:07:44.680
>> Okay.

04:07:44.719 --> 04:07:45.680
>> Okay.

04:07:45.719 --> 04:07:46.680
>> Okay.

04:07:46.719 --> 04:07:47.680
>> Okay.

04:07:47.719 --> 04:07:48.680
>> Okay.

04:07:48.719 --> 04:07:49.680
>> Okay.

04:07:49.719 --> 04:07:50.680
>> Okay.

04:07:50.719 --> 04:07:51.680
>> Okay.

04:07:51.719 --> 04:07:52.680
>> Okay.

04:07:52.719 --> 04:07:53.680
>> Okay.

04:07:53.719 --> 04:07:54.680
>> Okay.

04:07:54.719 --> 04:07:55.680
>> Okay.

04:07:55.719 --> 04:07:56.680
>> Okay.

04:07:56.719 --> 04:07:57.680
>> Okay.

04:07:57.719 --> 04:07:58.680
>> Okay.

04:07:58.719 --> 04:07:59.680
>> Okay.

04:07:59.719 --> 04:08:00.680
>> Okay.

04:08:00.719 --> 04:08:01.680
>> Okay.

04:08:01.719 --> 04:08:02.680
>> Okay.

04:08:02.719 --> 04:08:03.680
>> Okay.

04:08:03.719 --> 04:08:04.680
>> Okay.

04:08:04.719 --> 04:08:05.680
>> Okay.

04:08:05.719 --> 04:08:06.680
>> Okay.

04:08:06.719 --> 04:08:07.680
>> Okay.

04:08:07.719 --> 04:08:08.680
>> Okay.

04:08:08.719 --> 04:08:09.680
>> Okay.

04:08:09.719 --> 04:08:10.680
>> Okay.

04:08:10.719 --> 04:08:11.680
>> Okay.

04:08:11.719 --> 04:08:12.680
>> Okay.

04:08:12.719 --> 04:08:13.680
>> Okay.

04:08:13.719 --> 04:08:14.680
>> Okay.

04:08:14.719 --> 04:08:15.680
>> Okay.

04:08:15.719 --> 04:08:16.680
>> Okay.

04:08:16.719 --> 04:08:17.680
>> Okay.

04:08:17.719 --> 04:08:18.680
>> Okay.

04:08:18.719 --> 04:08:19.680
>> Okay.

04:08:19.719 --> 04:08:20.680
>> Okay.

04:08:20.719 --> 04:08:21.680
>> Okay.

04:08:21.719 --> 04:08:22.680
>> Okay.

04:08:22.719 --> 04:08:23.680
>> Okay.

04:08:23.719 --> 04:08:24.680
>> Okay.

04:08:24.719 --> 04:08:25.680
>> Okay.

04:08:25.719 --> 04:08:26.680
>> Okay.

04:08:26.719 --> 04:08:27.680
>> Okay.

04:08:27.719 --> 04:08:28.680
>> Okay.

04:08:28.719 --> 04:08:29.680
>> Okay.

04:08:29.719 --> 04:08:30.680
>> Okay.

04:08:30.719 --> 04:08:31.680
>> Okay.

04:08:31.719 --> 04:08:32.680
>> Okay.

04:08:32.719 --> 04:08:33.680
>> Okay.

04:08:33.719 --> 04:08:34.680
>> Okay.

04:08:34.719 --> 04:08:35.680
>> Okay.

04:08:35.719 --> 04:08:36.680
>> Okay.

04:08:36.719 --> 04:08:37.680
>> Okay.

04:08:37.719 --> 04:08:38.680
>> Okay.

04:08:38.719 --> 04:08:39.680
>> Okay.

04:08:39.719 --> 04:08:40.680
>> Okay.

04:08:40.719 --> 04:08:41.680
>> Okay.

04:08:41.719 --> 04:08:42.680
>> Okay.

04:08:42.719 --> 04:08:43.680
>> Okay.

04:08:43.719 --> 04:08:44.680
>> Okay.

04:08:44.719 --> 04:08:45.680
>> Okay.

04:08:45.719 --> 04:08:46.680
>> Okay.

04:08:46.719 --> 04:08:47.680
>> Okay.

04:08:47.719 --> 04:08:48.680
>> Okay.

04:08:48.719 --> 04:08:49.680
>> Okay.

04:08:49.719 --> 04:08:50.680
>> Okay.

04:08:50.719 --> 04:08:51.680
>> Okay.

04:08:51.719 --> 04:08:52.680
>> Okay.

04:08:52.719 --> 04:08:53.680
>> Okay.

04:08:53.719 --> 04:08:54.680
>> Okay.

04:08:54.719 --> 04:08:55.680
>> Okay.

04:08:55.719 --> 04:08:56.680
>> Okay.

04:08:56.719 --> 04:08:57.680
>> Okay.

04:08:57.719 --> 04:08:58.680
>> Okay.

04:08:58.719 --> 04:08:59.680
>> Okay.

04:08:59.719 --> 04:09:00.680
>> Okay.

04:09:00.719 --> 04:09:01.680
>> Okay.

04:09:01.719 --> 04:09:02.680
>> Okay.

04:09:02.719 --> 04:09:03.680
>> Okay.

04:09:03.719 --> 04:09:04.680
>> Okay.

04:09:04.719 --> 04:09:05.680
>> Okay.

04:09:05.719 --> 04:09:06.680
>> Okay.

04:09:06.719 --> 04:09:07.680
>> Okay.

04:09:07.719 --> 04:09:08.680
>> Okay.

04:09:08.719 --> 04:09:09.680
>> Okay.

04:09:09.719 --> 04:09:10.680
>> Okay.

04:09:10.719 --> 04:09:11.680
>> Okay.

04:09:11.719 --> 04:09:12.680
>> Okay.

04:09:12.719 --> 04:09:13.680
>> Okay.

04:09:13.719 --> 04:09:14.680
>> Okay.

04:09:14.719 --> 04:09:15.680
>> Okay.

04:09:15.719 --> 04:09:16.680
>> Okay.

04:09:16.719 --> 04:09:17.680
>> Okay.

04:09:17.719 --> 04:09:18.680
>> Okay.

04:09:18.719 --> 04:09:19.680
>> Okay.

04:09:19.719 --> 04:09:20.680
>> Okay.

04:09:20.719 --> 04:09:21.680
>> Okay.

04:09:21.719 --> 04:09:22.680
>> Okay.

04:09:22.719 --> 04:09:23.680
>> Okay.

04:09:23.719 --> 04:09:24.680
>> Okay.

04:09:24.719 --> 04:09:25.680
>> Okay.

04:09:25.719 --> 04:09:26.680
>> Okay.

04:09:26.719 --> 04:09:27.680
>> Okay.

04:09:27.719 --> 04:09:28.680
>> Okay.

04:09:28.719 --> 04:09:29.680
>> Okay.

04:09:29.719 --> 04:09:30.680
>> Okay.

04:09:30.719 --> 04:09:31.680
>> Okay.

04:09:31.719 --> 04:09:32.680
>> Okay.

04:09:32.719 --> 04:09:33.680
>> Okay.

04:09:33.719 --> 04:09:34.680
>> Okay.

04:09:34.719 --> 04:09:35.680
>> Okay.

04:09:35.719 --> 04:09:36.680
>> Okay.

04:09:36.719 --> 04:09:37.680
>> Okay.

04:09:37.719 --> 04:09:38.680
>> Okay.

04:09:38.719 --> 04:09:39.680
>> Okay.

04:09:39.719 --> 04:09:40.680
>> Okay.

04:09:40.719 --> 04:09:41.680
>> Okay.

04:09:41.719 --> 04:09:42.680
>> Okay.

04:09:42.719 --> 04:09:43.680
>> Okay.

04:09:43.719 --> 04:09:44.680
>> Okay.

04:09:44.719 --> 04:09:45.680
>> Okay.

04:09:45.719 --> 04:09:46.680
>> Okay.

04:09:46.719 --> 04:09:47.680
>> Okay.

04:09:47.719 --> 04:09:48.680
>> Okay.

04:09:48.719 --> 04:09:49.680
>> Okay.

04:09:49.719 --> 04:09:50.680
>> Okay.

04:09:50.719 --> 04:09:51.680
>> Okay.

04:09:51.719 --> 04:09:52.680
>> Okay.

04:09:52.719 --> 04:09:53.680
>> Okay.

04:09:53.719 --> 04:09:54.680
>> Okay.

04:09:54.719 --> 04:09:55.680
>> Okay.

04:09:55.719 --> 04:09:56.680
>> Okay.

04:09:56.719 --> 04:09:57.680
>> Okay.

04:09:57.719 --> 04:09:58.680
>> Okay.

04:09:58.719 --> 04:09:59.680
>> Okay.

04:09:59.719 --> 04:10:00.680
>> Okay.

04:10:00.719 --> 04:10:01.680
>> Okay.

04:10:01.719 --> 04:10:02.680
>> Okay.

04:10:02.719 --> 04:10:03.680
>> Okay.

04:10:03.719 --> 04:10:04.680
>> Okay.

04:10:04.719 --> 04:10:05.680
>> Okay.

04:10:05.719 --> 04:10:06.680
>> Okay.

04:10:06.719 --> 04:10:07.680
>> Okay.

04:10:07.719 --> 04:10:08.680
>> Okay.

04:10:08.719 --> 04:10:09.680
>> Okay.

04:10:09.719 --> 04:10:10.680
>> Okay.

04:10:10.719 --> 04:10:11.680
>> Okay.

04:10:11.719 --> 04:10:12.680
>> Okay.

04:10:12.719 --> 04:10:13.680
>> Okay.

04:10:13.719 --> 04:10:14.680
>> Okay.

04:10:14.719 --> 04:10:15.680
>> Okay.

04:10:15.719 --> 04:10:16.680
>> Okay.

04:10:16.719 --> 04:10:17.680
>> Okay.

04:10:17.719 --> 04:10:18.680
>> Okay.

04:10:18.719 --> 04:10:19.680
>> Okay.

04:10:19.719 --> 04:10:20.680
>> Okay.

04:10:20.719 --> 04:10:21.680
>> Okay.

04:10:21.719 --> 04:10:22.680
>> Okay.

04:10:22.719 --> 04:10:23.680
>> Okay.

04:10:23.719 --> 04:10:24.680
>> Okay.

04:10:24.719 --> 04:10:25.680
>> Okay.

04:10:25.719 --> 04:10:26.680
>> Okay.

04:10:26.719 --> 04:10:27.680
>> Okay.

04:10:27.719 --> 04:10:28.680
>> Okay.

04:10:28.719 --> 04:10:29.680
>> Okay.

04:10:29.719 --> 04:10:30.680
>> Okay.

04:10:30.719 --> 04:10:31.680
>> Okay.

04:10:31.719 --> 04:10:32.680
>> Okay.

04:10:32.719 --> 04:10:33.680
>> Okay.

04:10:33.719 --> 04:10:34.680
>> Okay.

04:10:34.719 --> 04:10:35.680
>> Okay.

04:10:35.719 --> 04:10:36.680
>> Okay.

04:10:36.719 --> 04:10:37.680
>> Okay.

04:10:37.719 --> 04:10:38.680
>> Okay.

04:10:38.719 --> 04:10:39.680
>> Okay.

04:10:39.719 --> 04:10:40.680
>> Okay.

04:10:40.719 --> 04:10:41.680
>> Okay.

04:10:41.719 --> 04:10:42.680
>> Okay.

04:10:42.719 --> 04:10:43.680
>> Okay.

04:10:43.719 --> 04:10:44.680
>> Okay.

04:10:44.719 --> 04:10:45.680
>> Okay.

04:10:45.719 --> 04:10:46.680
>> Okay.

04:10:46.719 --> 04:10:47.680
>> Okay.

04:10:47.719 --> 04:10:48.680
>> Okay.

04:10:48.719 --> 04:10:49.680
>> Okay.

04:10:49.719 --> 04:10:50.680
>> Okay.

04:10:50.719 --> 04:10:51.680
>> Okay.

04:10:51.719 --> 04:10:52.680
>> Okay.

04:10:52.719 --> 04:10:53.680
>> Okay.

04:10:53.719 --> 04:10:54.680
>> Okay.

04:10:54.719 --> 04:10:55.680
>> Okay.

04:10:55.719 --> 04:10:56.680
>> Okay.

04:10:56.719 --> 04:10:57.680
>> Okay.

04:10:57.719 --> 04:10:58.680
>> Okay.

04:10:58.719 --> 04:10:59.680
>> Okay.

04:10:59.719 --> 04:11:00.680
>> Okay.

04:11:00.719 --> 04:11:01.680
>> Okay.

04:11:01.719 --> 04:11:02.680
>> Okay.

04:11:02.719 --> 04:11:03.680
>> Okay.

04:11:03.719 --> 04:11:04.680
>> Okay.

04:11:04.719 --> 04:11:05.680
>> Okay.

04:11:05.719 --> 04:11:06.680
>> Okay.

04:11:06.719 --> 04:11:07.680
>> Okay.

04:11:07.719 --> 04:11:08.680
>> Okay.

04:11:08.719 --> 04:11:09.680
>> Okay.

04:11:09.719 --> 04:11:10.680
>> Okay.

04:11:10.719 --> 04:11:11.680
>> Okay.

04:11:11.719 --> 04:11:12.680
>> Okay.

04:11:12.719 --> 04:11:13.680
>> Okay.

04:11:13.719 --> 04:11:14.680
>> Okay.

04:11:14.719 --> 04:11:15.680
>> Okay.

04:11:15.719 --> 04:11:16.680
>> Okay.

04:11:16.719 --> 04:11:17.680
>> Okay.

04:11:17.719 --> 04:11:18.680
>> Okay.

04:11:18.719 --> 04:11:19.680
>> Okay.

04:11:19.719 --> 04:11:20.680
>> Okay.

04:11:20.719 --> 04:11:21.680
>> Okay.

04:11:21.719 --> 04:11:22.680
>> Okay.

04:11:22.719 --> 04:11:23.680
>> Okay.

04:11:23.719 --> 04:11:24.680
>> Okay.

04:11:24.719 --> 04:11:25.680
>> Okay.

04:11:25.719 --> 04:11:26.680
>> Okay.

04:11:26.719 --> 04:11:27.680
>> Okay.

04:11:27.719 --> 04:11:28.680
>> Okay.

04:11:28.719 --> 04:11:29.680
>> Okay.

04:11:29.719 --> 04:11:30.680
>> Okay.

04:11:30.719 --> 04:11:31.680
>> Okay.

04:11:31.719 --> 04:11:32.680
>> Okay.

04:11:32.719 --> 04:11:33.680
>> Okay.

04:11:33.719 --> 04:11:34.680
Great.

04:11:34.719 --> 04:11:36.680
We have nothing else in work session so I'm going to close

04:11:36.680 --> 04:11:39.680
our work session at 940.

04:11:39.719 --> 04:11:41.680
Thank you everyone.