1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,759 for the City of Denton. It is five o'clock. This meeting 2 00:00:04,759 --> 00:00:05,440 has been duly 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:10,410 posted and we do have a quorum present and our first item 4 00:00:10,410 --> 00:00:12,080 of business in our 5 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:20,039 work session is going to be clarification of agenda items. 6 00:00:20,039 --> 00:00:21,679 Thank you Chairperson 7 00:00:21,679 --> 00:00:25,530 Strange. If the Commission has any questions regarding the 8 00:00:25,530 --> 00:00:26,239 plots we can go 9 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,469 over this. Over those else we can dive straight into the 10 00:00:29,469 --> 00:00:30,559 other two public 11 00:00:30,559 --> 00:00:34,399 hearing items that we have. I just wanted to get a feel if 12 00:00:34,399 --> 00:00:35,560 we were comfortable 13 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:42,840 with the plants. Question on plants. One of the plants we 14 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:43,960 're looking at is that 15 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:52,880 where caliber collision is asking okay my I had a question 16 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:54,240 about. Let me 17 00:00:54,240 --> 00:01:03,799 recognize you Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. No I'm 18 00:01:03,799 --> 00:01:05,840 thinking of the one where they're going to do 19 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:12,280 cavenders. That's not a plant issue is it? Okay. Super. 20 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:17,299 Anybody else on the question on plant or we're going to 21 00:01:17,299 --> 00:01:20,760 move on to something else? 22 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,209 In that case we'll go ahead and move on to our public 23 00:01:24,209 --> 00:01:26,200 hearing items that will be 24 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,409 heard at the public hearing. The first one is regarding an 25 00:01:29,409 --> 00:01:30,400 amendment to the 26 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,750 Fry Street overlay district. I'm going to ask Sophie Humer 27 00:01:32,750 --> 00:01:33,239 to make that 28 00:01:33,239 --> 00:01:48,079 presentation for us. Good evening Commissioners. Sophie Hum 29 00:01:48,079 --> 00:01:48,680 er, Assistant 30 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,799 Planner. I'll be presenting to you Z1529 the Fry Street 31 00:01:52,799 --> 00:01:53,680 overlay district 32 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,069 amendment. The request before you is to hold a public 33 00:01:57,069 --> 00:01:58,040 hearing and consider 34 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,780 making a recommendation to City Council regarding amending 35 00:02:01,780 --> 00:02:03,480 subchapter 3575 36 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,620 Fry Street overlay district to create a new sub district in 37 00:02:07,620 --> 00:02:08,120 development 38 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:12,849 standards for a mixed-use building on approximately 1.7 39 00:02:12,849 --> 00:02:15,080 acres. The proposed 40 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:19,199 development is located on West Oak and West Hickory Street. 41 00:02:19,199 --> 00:02:20,439 It has frontage on 42 00:02:20,439 --> 00:02:23,639 both of those roads. It's also located between Fry Street 43 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,360 and Avenue B. However 44 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,740 it does not have frontage on either of those roads. The 45 00:02:29,740 --> 00:02:31,520 zoning for the property 46 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:36,240 is downtown commercial general but it's located within the 47 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,280 Fry Street overlay district and in a couple slides I'll get 48 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:40,360 into what exactly 49 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,740 that means. It's also important to remember that multif 50 00:02:43,740 --> 00:02:44,960 amily and retail are 51 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:49,180 permitted by right in the district. So the Fry Street 52 00:02:49,180 --> 00:02:50,439 overlay district was 53 00:02:50,439 --> 00:02:53,099 created in 2000 to preserve the unique history and 54 00:02:53,099 --> 00:02:55,120 character of the area. Under 55 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,469 sub area A at this time and as it stands in the ordinance 56 00:02:58,469 --> 00:03:00,439 today, in sub area A you 57 00:03:00,439 --> 00:03:05,259 can have a building of 45 feet in height maximum of three 58 00:03:05,259 --> 00:03:06,919 stories and the 59 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,270 density of multifamily units is based on a minimum unit 60 00:03:10,270 --> 00:03:11,759 size. So for example 61 00:03:11,759 --> 00:03:15,199 efficiency apartments are approximately 1,000 square feet 62 00:03:15,199 --> 00:03:20,080 and so on. In 2010 the 63 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:24,439 Fry Street overlay district was further amended to 64 00:03:24,439 --> 00:03:24,960 accommodate a 65 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,159 mixed-use development. Again multifamily and retail on the 66 00:03:28,159 --> 00:03:29,800 bottom and in this 67 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:34,250 sub area the height of the building went to 55 feet, a 68 00:03:34,250 --> 00:03:36,000 total of four stories and 69 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,960 the density was set at 72.5 units per acre. What remains in 70 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:42,400 this green area is 71 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:49,300 still sub area A. Commissioner Beck. Units are what? Bed 72 00:03:49,300 --> 00:03:50,840 rooms or the entire 73 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:55,550 part? Are we counting kitchens? Sure one bedroom is equal 74 00:03:55,550 --> 00:03:57,199 to one half of a unit 75 00:03:57,199 --> 00:04:01,400 and so all of the measurements you'll see are based on that 76 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:02,319 . They're 77 00:04:02,319 --> 00:04:05,580 essentially calibrated to that density. So two bedroom 78 00:04:05,580 --> 00:04:10,400 apartment is a unit? Unit. Okay thank you. 79 00:04:10,639 --> 00:04:15,169 So the applicant EDR is proposing to further amend the Fry 80 00:04:15,169 --> 00:04:16,160 Street overlay 81 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,720 district creating sub area B1 to accommodate multifamily 82 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:20,639 and retail. In 83 00:04:20,639 --> 00:04:25,079 this sub district or sub area the height would be 58 feet, 84 00:04:25,079 --> 00:04:26,680 a total of five stories 85 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:32,600 and the density would be 88.2 units per acre. The applicant 86 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:32,959 is also 87 00:04:32,959 --> 00:04:36,399 requesting amendments to the multifamily parking 88 00:04:36,399 --> 00:04:38,160 regulations. Sub area 89 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:43,120 A and B only require one space for multi-family units with 90 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:43,399 two or 91 00:04:43,399 --> 00:04:47,519 more bedrooms. Sub area B1 is asking for units with two or 92 00:04:47,519 --> 00:04:49,160 more bedrooms to only 93 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:54,560 require 0.75 spaces per bedroom. No other amendments are 94 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:55,839 going to be made to the 95 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,279 parking ratios of the Fry Street overlay district in this 96 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,480 proposal. This is just 97 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,370 a summary slide and we can come back to this at the end of 98 00:05:04,370 --> 00:05:05,519 the presentation of 99 00:05:05,519 --> 00:05:09,899 the current sub areas and then the proposed sub area B1. So 100 00:05:09,899 --> 00:05:11,199 now I want to 101 00:05:11,199 --> 00:05:14,480 delve a little bit into the neighborhood university 102 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:15,199 compatibility 103 00:05:15,199 --> 00:05:18,480 future land use designation and what that means to the area 104 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,000 . So the subject 105 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,920 property is located in this neighborhood university 106 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,420 compatibility area. UNT is to 107 00:05:25,420 --> 00:05:28,870 the south and it's flanked on the east and west by low 108 00:05:28,870 --> 00:05:30,399 residential future land 109 00:05:30,399 --> 00:05:34,139 use designations and to the north is a neighborhood mixed 110 00:05:34,139 --> 00:05:36,560 use designation. Some 111 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,220 of the goals of the neighborhood university land use 112 00:05:39,220 --> 00:05:39,959 chapter and this is 113 00:05:39,959 --> 00:05:43,449 direct from the Denton plan 2030 is that the area should 114 00:05:43,449 --> 00:05:44,480 provide a gradual 115 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,300 transition in scale use and character between the 116 00:05:47,300 --> 00:05:48,560 universities and the 117 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,839 surrounding neighborhoods. Development should also 118 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:53,160 encourage uses that are in 119 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:57,019 close proximity to one another and encourage walking and 120 00:05:57,019 --> 00:05:58,800 bicycling. Character 121 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,629 of the area should also be maintained to ensure that new 122 00:06:01,629 --> 00:06:02,959 development is sensitive 123 00:06:02,959 --> 00:06:05,620 to the surrounding and surrounding built and natural 124 00:06:05,620 --> 00:06:06,959 environment in terms of 125 00:06:06,959 --> 00:06:11,199 scale and form. The development should also adequately 126 00:06:11,199 --> 00:06:12,759 address parking needs to 127 00:06:12,759 --> 00:06:16,750 mitigate the impact to adjacent neighborhoods. So now 128 00:06:16,750 --> 00:06:17,959 moving into the 129 00:06:17,959 --> 00:06:20,699 considerations the purpose of the Fry Street overlay 130 00:06:20,699 --> 00:06:22,060 district originally was 131 00:06:22,060 --> 00:06:25,410 to maintain the character of the area. It's traditionally 132 00:06:25,410 --> 00:06:27,439 commercial area. Proposed 133 00:06:27,439 --> 00:06:30,149 amendment would allow for one of the highest densities that 134 00:06:30,149 --> 00:06:30,879 we've seen in the 135 00:06:30,879 --> 00:06:33,769 area and while the use is permitted the original intent 136 00:06:33,769 --> 00:06:35,839 again of the overlay was 137 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:40,540 to maintain cohesive development and maintain the character 138 00:06:40,540 --> 00:06:41,680 of the area. 139 00:06:41,759 --> 00:06:45,579 There's also a deficit between what is required by the 140 00:06:45,579 --> 00:06:47,879 overlay district and what 141 00:06:47,879 --> 00:06:51,199 the proposed amendment would do to that parking requirement 142 00:06:51,199 --> 00:06:52,000 for this development 143 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:57,500 essentially there would be a 110 space deficit in the 144 00:06:57,500 --> 00:06:59,920 parking and reductions on 145 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:03,230 this site-by-site basis aren't a comprehensive approach to 146 00:07:03,230 --> 00:07:04,079 analyzing the 147 00:07:04,079 --> 00:07:09,439 impact of parking reductions in the greater Fry Street area 148 00:07:09,439 --> 00:07:12,839 . These are some 149 00:07:12,839 --> 00:07:16,009 departmental considerations. The scoping for the traffic 150 00:07:16,009 --> 00:07:17,560 impact analysis has been 151 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,750 initiated however the TIA has not been submitted for review 152 00:07:21,750 --> 00:07:23,000 and also from the 153 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,040 fire department the applicant has not yet been able to 154 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:27,079 verify the aerial 155 00:07:27,079 --> 00:07:30,430 apparatus access to the building with the site plans that 156 00:07:30,430 --> 00:07:31,560 we've provided in 157 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:37,389 your backup. Commissioner Taylor. Just to clarify what is 158 00:07:37,389 --> 00:07:38,800 that last phrase about 159 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:45,230 aerial apparatus access? Sure they you know in addition to 160 00:07:45,230 --> 00:07:47,439 the minimum or sorry 161 00:07:47,439 --> 00:07:51,069 in addition to the sprinkler system inside the building the 162 00:07:51,069 --> 00:07:52,279 fire truck also 163 00:07:52,279 --> 00:07:56,430 has to be able to air aerially access the building. They 164 00:07:56,430 --> 00:07:57,920 need I believe 15 feet 165 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,720 off of the building and then a 26 foot wide fire lane. 166 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,800 Currently based on the 167 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:08,800 site plan they only have 10 feet. The Sterling Fry 168 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:10,839 development went through a 169 00:08:10,839 --> 00:08:15,170 council initiated process. The developer initiated it it 170 00:08:15,170 --> 00:08:16,319 had to go to council 171 00:08:16,319 --> 00:08:20,160 where they eliminated parking on Fry and Welch. I believe 172 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:21,480 that is something that 173 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,449 the applicant is still pursuing however staff has not been 174 00:08:24,449 --> 00:08:25,160 able to review 175 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:29,279 anything yet. So there isn't a question of having the 176 00:08:29,279 --> 00:08:30,519 equipment it's just having 177 00:08:30,519 --> 00:08:34,409 enough access for the equipment to reach. Correct. Okay 178 00:08:34,409 --> 00:08:36,759 thank you. Commissioner Beck. 179 00:08:36,759 --> 00:08:42,509 Do we have reasons why both of these are not available now? 180 00:08:42,509 --> 00:08:43,879 Why they've been delayed? 181 00:08:43,879 --> 00:08:50,440 It's timing. In the backup we provided a project timeline. 182 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,200 The full 183 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,149 submittal was done in December and it went through its 184 00:08:56,149 --> 00:08:57,879 first review process. 185 00:08:57,879 --> 00:09:01,720 Technically its status is currently returned for review 186 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,159 which means that 187 00:09:03,159 --> 00:09:07,389 fire engineering planning still have some outstanding 188 00:09:07,389 --> 00:09:09,600 concerns. However it is 189 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,399 the full right of the applicant to move it forward to PNZ. 190 00:09:13,399 --> 00:09:15,320 Some of these will 191 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,759 affect the site plan. There are there is a minor amendment 192 00:09:19,759 --> 00:09:20,799 procedure already in 193 00:09:20,799 --> 00:09:24,350 the Fry Street overlay district so some of these could come 194 00:09:24,350 --> 00:09:25,440 back and be minor 195 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:31,320 amendments if they hit that threshold. Okay thanks. And 196 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,879 just to clarify if I may 197 00:09:33,879 --> 00:09:38,409 the applicant if the request from the applicant is request 198 00:09:38,409 --> 00:09:39,600 for approval of the 199 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:41,950 amendments that are proposed in front of you so as it 200 00:09:41,950 --> 00:09:43,080 relates to the site plan 201 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,450 and as it relates to if this were approved and they're 202 00:09:46,450 --> 00:09:47,600 building permit 203 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,600 approval would be contingent on ensuring the TIA was 204 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:53,399 addressed, accurately 205 00:09:53,399 --> 00:09:55,840 reviewed and addressed and all the comments associated with 206 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:56,480 that as well as 207 00:09:56,480 --> 00:10:00,049 all health and safety requirements associated with the fire 208 00:10:00,049 --> 00:10:00,799 department. 209 00:10:00,799 --> 00:10:05,960 Just a question. I don't recall us having projects come 210 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:06,960 before us since most things 211 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:11,490 haven't been done correctly or I don't say correctly yet 212 00:10:11,490 --> 00:10:12,320 before it's presented 213 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,009 to us. Is there some sort of reason why there's a fast 214 00:10:15,009 --> 00:10:16,399 track as to why they're 215 00:10:16,399 --> 00:10:19,059 have a deadline or something they're trying to meet and we 216 00:10:19,059 --> 00:10:19,679 should even 217 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,529 consider moving this on to council and let them take care 218 00:10:22,529 --> 00:10:23,519 of this before it gets 219 00:10:23,519 --> 00:10:28,049 to council? When the applicant turned in their submittal 220 00:10:28,049 --> 00:10:28,320 when they 221 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,740 intimated that they were wanting to proceed with this 222 00:10:30,740 --> 00:10:32,120 program their primary 223 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,940 intent was to determine if they would actually secure 224 00:10:34,940 --> 00:10:35,720 approval of these 225 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:39,100 amendments. In order to review the amendments they did give 226 00:10:39,100 --> 00:10:39,960 a concept plan 227 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,679 that showed the massing of the building and through that 228 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:44,919 review these elements 229 00:10:44,919 --> 00:10:48,580 were identified. As part of a zoning change request they 230 00:10:48,580 --> 00:10:49,759 can't anybody can 231 00:10:49,759 --> 00:10:52,970 come in and request a zoning change or amendment to a 232 00:10:52,970 --> 00:10:54,399 zoning document or an 233 00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:57,500 overlay district and then it is the responsibility of the 234 00:10:57,500 --> 00:10:58,759 planning staff to 235 00:10:58,759 --> 00:11:01,500 do a slide use analysis to determine the appropriateness of 236 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:02,679 the request and of 237 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,769 course the Commission then can recommend favorably table 238 00:11:05,769 --> 00:11:06,519 the item add 239 00:11:06,519 --> 00:11:09,779 considerations or conditions to it and move it on to City 240 00:11:09,779 --> 00:11:10,759 Council or deny the 241 00:11:10,759 --> 00:11:19,080 request and move it on to City Council. Okay thank you. So 242 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:20,799 in analysis of the 243 00:11:20,799 --> 00:11:24,620 development in its kind of cohesiveness with the Denton 244 00:11:24,620 --> 00:11:26,960 plan 2030 we recognize 245 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,200 that the development would increase the stock of student 246 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:30,000 housing which is an 247 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,879 important component of the Denton plan 2030. However there 248 00:11:33,879 --> 00:11:35,000 are some associated 249 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,259 development conditions that aren't consistent with the Dent 250 00:11:38,259 --> 00:11:39,200 on plan and these 251 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,350 are very important considerations to staff and also to the 252 00:11:42,350 --> 00:11:43,399 neighborhood. One 253 00:11:43,399 --> 00:11:46,059 is that it doesn't adequately address the parking needs for 254 00:11:46,059 --> 00:11:46,639 the project and 255 00:11:46,639 --> 00:11:50,799 doesn't mitigate spillover to the surrounding area. There's 256 00:11:50,799 --> 00:11:51,320 also a 257 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,399 potential impact on surrounding infrastructure and there's 258 00:11:54,399 --> 00:11:54,399 an 259 00:11:54,399 --> 00:11:59,049 inconsistency in urban form and scale specifically related 260 00:11:59,049 --> 00:12:01,360 to the height. Staff 261 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,019 also has concerns about the continuous amendments to the 262 00:12:04,019 --> 00:12:04,960 Fry Street overlay 263 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,759 district standards without fully understanding the impact 264 00:12:07,759 --> 00:12:08,240 of higher 265 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,519 density and intensity projects on infrastructure, 266 00:12:11,519 --> 00:12:12,440 transportation and 267 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:17,480 parking network, neighborhood compatibility. However we do 268 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:17,740 see 269 00:12:17,740 --> 00:12:19,889 development pressure in this area and we want to make sure 270 00:12:19,889 --> 00:12:20,799 that those things are 271 00:12:20,799 --> 00:12:24,480 taken care of so the developer can come in request these 272 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:25,840 changes and have them 273 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,049 fully compatible with the neighborhood. So staff has taken 274 00:12:29,049 --> 00:12:29,919 a look at doing a 275 00:12:29,919 --> 00:12:34,269 revised Fry Street area small area plan that was presented 276 00:12:34,269 --> 00:12:35,480 to Council yesterday 277 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:40,559 to favorable reception so I just wanted to throw that in as 278 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,159 a FYI. 279 00:12:42,159 --> 00:12:49,120 Staff presented just a draft work plan to City Council 280 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:49,759 during work 281 00:12:49,759 --> 00:12:56,559 session about a Fry Street small area plan and it would try 282 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:56,600 to 283 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,720 address these needs so that developers could come in and 284 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,080 see that there are 285 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:07,759 things that we're working on and trying to get just take a 286 00:13:07,759 --> 00:13:12,000 look at. Commissioner 287 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:18,279 Taylor. Thank you chair. What specific infrastructure is 288 00:13:18,279 --> 00:13:19,840 concerning? Sure, 289 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:26,240 there I believe sewer. There are some outstanding issues on 290 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:27,240 the sewer whether 291 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:32,240 an upsize is needed to align. I believe it's on Hickory. I 292 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:33,240 think Earl can correct 293 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:40,039 me if I'm wrong. Okay. This also this area there's old 294 00:13:40,039 --> 00:13:42,120 infrastructure and there 295 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,259 are some CIP projects in this area and it just needs a 296 00:13:46,259 --> 00:13:48,080 comprehensive look to 297 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:53,980 see what these intensity projects do to this area. Thank 298 00:13:53,980 --> 00:13:56,159 you. I'll chime in on 299 00:13:56,159 --> 00:14:01,200 that question. Is it a capacity issue or the age of the 300 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:03,399 infrastructure? I would 301 00:14:03,399 --> 00:14:06,679 ask Earl to answer that question. 302 00:14:18,879 --> 00:14:22,720 Good evening. It's more of a capacity issue given the 303 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,000 intensity of the uses 304 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,179 coming in and the size of the infrastructure that's along H 305 00:14:27,179 --> 00:14:27,600 ickory. 306 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:33,039 Okay I just want to make sure it's a capacity that they 307 00:14:33,039 --> 00:14:34,240 would be responsible 308 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,009 for that versus. No if it's the age of the infrastructure 309 00:14:37,009 --> 00:14:37,840 it'd be more of a 310 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,129 maintenance. Correct. Okay. So is this just to follow up. 311 00:14:41,129 --> 00:14:42,240 Commissioner Taylor. Thank you. 312 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:46,769 Is the the capacity is it a localized issue or is it from 313 00:14:46,769 --> 00:14:48,679 Fry Street to 314 00:14:48,679 --> 00:14:51,720 Mayhill needs to be upgraded? It would be more of a 315 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:53,360 localized issue we just haven't 316 00:14:53,360 --> 00:15:00,200 really gone into evaluation without any demand information. 317 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:10,480 Commissioner Roselle. Thank you Chair. Obviously I wasn't 318 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,120 around in 2010 to 319 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:18,220 understand the sub area B. It seems as though that the two 320 00:15:18,220 --> 00:15:19,679 main differences are 321 00:15:19,679 --> 00:15:23,720 the height and the parking considerations. If anyone knows 322 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:24,000 can 323 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,250 someone walk me through. Is there any differences I'm 324 00:15:26,250 --> 00:15:26,960 missing because it's a 325 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:31,039 three foot higher building and there's the parking which is 326 00:15:31,039 --> 00:15:32,200 I think substantial. 327 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,860 Is there anything else significant about the two? I'm 328 00:15:34,860 --> 00:15:35,720 wondering why these other 329 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,840 issues were they addressed and the other sub area B and how 330 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:41,200 did that get passed? 331 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:46,809 Maybe some history of that would be helpful. Sure in 2010 332 00:15:46,809 --> 00:15:47,879 the application 333 00:15:47,879 --> 00:15:51,350 came forward it was very I believe it was very similar to 334 00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:51,960 this one 335 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:57,509 multifamily use project mixed use. That project the Ster 336 00:15:57,509 --> 00:15:59,200 ling Fry located a 337 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,730 little bit further east of this project. They were able to 338 00:16:03,730 --> 00:16:05,200 meet their parking 339 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,639 requirements. They were able to do one-for-one parking once 340 00:16:08,639 --> 00:16:11,120 they got the 341 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:17,379 alleviation on Fry Street and Welch. The size I believe was 342 00:16:17,379 --> 00:16:19,000 also a consideration. 343 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,940 Based on our neighborhood meetings that we've held recently 344 00:16:22,940 --> 00:16:23,720 a lot of the 345 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:29,159 neighbors aren't happy with the way that parking is in the 346 00:16:29,159 --> 00:16:31,399 neighborhood. They're 347 00:16:31,399 --> 00:16:34,639 also concerned about buildings being brought up to the 348 00:16:34,639 --> 00:16:36,559 street line. Landscape 349 00:16:36,559 --> 00:16:39,909 was also brought up during those neighborhood meetings and 350 00:16:39,909 --> 00:16:41,000 just a couple 351 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:51,360 other kind of public realm issues. So I wasn't here in 2010 352 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,600 . And if I can chime 353 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,740 in from a staff perspective or from a planning discipline 354 00:16:57,740 --> 00:16:59,159 perspective one of 355 00:16:59,159 --> 00:17:04,000 the criteria that we have to strongly understand and 356 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:05,880 analyze is are we further 357 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,619 compromising an overlay district that was established to 358 00:17:08,619 --> 00:17:09,640 meet a specific goal 359 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,289 or some specific criteria or goals. In this instance then 360 00:17:13,289 --> 00:17:14,640 the question arises 361 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,769 are we going to continue to amend this overlay district or 362 00:17:18,769 --> 00:17:19,960 to accommodate 363 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,440 development or do we need to look at the bigger picture and 364 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:24,799 revisit that corridor 365 00:17:24,799 --> 00:17:27,220 or the Fry Street overlay district and come up with 366 00:17:27,220 --> 00:17:28,460 criteria that are actually 367 00:17:28,460 --> 00:17:31,829 more attractive and can sustain and attract development. 368 00:17:31,829 --> 00:17:33,160 And that's the bigger 369 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,720 picture that we have to analyze at this point as well. 370 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:42,079 So to follow up with that. Commissioner Rosale. Thank you. 371 00:17:42,079 --> 00:17:44,720 By rights if this met 372 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,269 parking and height requirements they wouldn't need the new 373 00:17:49,269 --> 00:17:51,079 overlay? Correct. So 374 00:17:51,079 --> 00:17:54,519 if they if they complied with the existing conditions 375 00:17:54,519 --> 00:17:55,680 specified in sub 376 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,630 area B, A I'm sorry in sub area A and they met all those 377 00:17:59,630 --> 00:18:00,559 requirements which is 378 00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:02,700 parking and building height they would go straight from 379 00:18:02,700 --> 00:18:03,559 building permits at 380 00:18:03,559 --> 00:18:11,190 the moment. Thank you. Before we move on you mentioned 381 00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:12,519 there was a they just 382 00:18:12,519 --> 00:18:17,839 passed a slide the Fry Street small area plan. Would it be 383 00:18:17,839 --> 00:18:18,640 appropriate to 384 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:23,420 share or not at this time the direction and the favorable 385 00:18:23,420 --> 00:18:24,759 response from council 386 00:18:24,759 --> 00:18:27,849 to give us a little better idea of where we're going with 387 00:18:27,849 --> 00:18:28,759 this or is that 388 00:18:28,759 --> 00:18:32,960 premature to get into that? We can discuss what was 389 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:34,920 presented at the City 390 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:40,470 Council work session yesterday. Two things that we need to 391 00:18:40,470 --> 00:18:41,559 preface this 392 00:18:41,559 --> 00:18:44,599 discussion or conversation with is one we adopted the 393 00:18:44,599 --> 00:18:46,119 comprehensive plan just 394 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:50,740 recently. One of the major goals primary short-term goals 395 00:18:50,740 --> 00:18:52,200 of this comprehensive 396 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,240 plan Denton plan 2030 is to revisit our small area plans 397 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:57,000 and it specifically 398 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,869 highlights or addresses this area as well. That being said 399 00:19:00,869 --> 00:19:01,640 we started 400 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,960 evaluating and understanding what small areas do we need to 401 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:05,960 start looking at. 402 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,650 We've received a lot of queries regarding this area and we 403 00:19:09,650 --> 00:19:10,839 strongly feel 404 00:19:10,839 --> 00:19:13,670 that we need to have parameters in place that would 405 00:19:13,670 --> 00:19:15,759 accommodate that. We also know 406 00:19:15,759 --> 00:19:20,720 that the neighborhood is extremely involved and active in 407 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,119 improving their 408 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,809 community and their neighborhood. That being said we also 409 00:19:26,809 --> 00:19:28,359 presented to the City 410 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,940 Council yesterday in a work session saying we would like to 411 00:19:31,940 --> 00:19:33,099 initiate a small 412 00:19:33,099 --> 00:19:36,980 area plan and through that address the Fry Street small 413 00:19:36,980 --> 00:19:38,559 area plan. Do that as a 414 00:19:38,559 --> 00:19:41,789 subset. Create a small Fry Street small area plan and 415 00:19:41,789 --> 00:19:42,960 address overlay 416 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:48,829 conditions on a parallel track once the small area plan is 417 00:19:48,829 --> 00:19:50,680 initiated. We received 418 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,490 a lot of questions from our City Council and we feel we 419 00:19:54,490 --> 00:19:55,920 sufficiently addressed 420 00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:00,880 those, succinctly addressed those as well and we will now 421 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,400 proceed to the next 422 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:05,960 steps which is to hopefully establish a committee through 423 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:07,140 nomination by City 424 00:20:07,140 --> 00:20:15,950 Council. So we have a ways to go then? Yes. Okay. Thanks. 425 00:20:15,950 --> 00:20:18,319 So just to expand on 426 00:20:18,319 --> 00:20:21,119 those neighborhood meetings, two of them were held. 427 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:22,559 Neighborhood expressed the 428 00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:25,730 level of comfort with sub area A of the Fry Street overlay 429 00:20:25,730 --> 00:20:26,759 district as it was 430 00:20:26,759 --> 00:20:29,950 written. Concerns were raised by attendance of the meeting 431 00:20:29,950 --> 00:20:30,619 that included 432 00:20:30,619 --> 00:20:34,859 increased traffic along Oak and Hickory, pedestrian and veh 433 00:20:34,859 --> 00:20:36,240 icular traffic as well 434 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,549 as bike traffic, increased parking in single-family 435 00:20:39,549 --> 00:20:40,680 neighborhoods adjacent to 436 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,500 the project, that parking spillover, and also the lack of a 437 00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:45,720 shade study to study 438 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:51,970 for the height of the building. Per section 3573 of the 439 00:20:51,970 --> 00:20:53,119 Denton Development 440 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,029 Code, special purpose overlay districts are established to 441 00:20:56,029 --> 00:20:57,480 protect and enhance 442 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,890 specific neighborhoods, groupings of buildings. These 443 00:21:01,890 --> 00:21:02,960 buildings have 444 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,059 characteristics or these areas have characteristics which 445 00:21:06,059 --> 00:21:07,680 are distinct from 446 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,500 lands and structures outside of those districts. Changes to 447 00:21:11,500 --> 00:21:12,400 the overlay 448 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,299 district must enhance or conform to the purpose of the 449 00:21:15,299 --> 00:21:16,799 overlay district's goals 450 00:21:16,799 --> 00:21:21,759 and objectives. As submitted, the proposed development only 451 00:21:21,759 --> 00:21:22,640 further amends the 452 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,490 district to conform to specific development proposal 453 00:21:25,490 --> 00:21:27,039 without comprehensive 454 00:21:27,039 --> 00:21:31,920 analysis of the impact to adjacent neighborhoods. 455 00:21:33,599 --> 00:21:38,680 That notification date is wrong. Public notifications were 456 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,640 sent out earlier this 457 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:48,440 year. 27 were sent out. 27 200 foot public notices were 458 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:49,440 sent out. 500 459 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,230 courtesy notices were sent out via regular mail and I can 460 00:21:52,230 --> 00:21:53,160 get that date for 461 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,160 you in regular session. 462 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,630 -Sophie? -Yes. -Pardon me. Can you go back to that last 463 00:21:58,630 --> 00:22:00,839 slide? -Commissioner Bruegel. -Thank you, Chair. 464 00:22:00,839 --> 00:22:03,569 So I know that there's been neighborhood meetings about 465 00:22:03,569 --> 00:22:04,279 this and I've been 466 00:22:04,279 --> 00:22:08,039 hearing from people who live in this neighborhood. Have any 467 00:22:08,039 --> 00:22:08,640 notifications 468 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,920 come in since? I mean, I would think that there would be 469 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:12,279 something highlighted 470 00:22:12,279 --> 00:22:16,460 in this 200 and 500 foot buffer? Did I get lost in the mail 471 00:22:16,460 --> 00:22:22,039 ? Where are they? -A lot of these, if 472 00:22:22,039 --> 00:22:24,740 you look at the land use around this, they're mostly 473 00:22:24,740 --> 00:22:26,400 businesses, multi-family, 474 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,710 they're not owner occupied. That is the limitation of the 475 00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:32,559 200 and the 500 foot 476 00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:37,519 notice that's required by state law. Of course we take it 477 00:22:37,519 --> 00:22:38,759 head to head when we 478 00:22:38,759 --> 00:22:41,990 consider the input from those neighborhood meetings. I 479 00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:42,519 think I 480 00:22:42,519 --> 00:22:45,240 provided additional information in the staff report as well 481 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,539 . But no, even by 482 00:22:47,539 --> 00:22:52,599 phone I have not heard. We also provide our emails on those 483 00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:53,880 notification letters, 484 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:59,130 phone numbers, all of that. -Okay. Yeah, thanks. -No 485 00:22:59,130 --> 00:23:02,000 problem. -Commissioner Beck. -That does seem odd. 486 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,440 I made the public aware of just literally what we're gonna 487 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:07,160 do at the 488 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,960 workshop today and that was all I pointed out. And there 489 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,319 were several people that 490 00:23:11,319 --> 00:23:14,490 acted like they weren't aware of this at all. And one was a 491 00:23:14,490 --> 00:23:16,640 business owner, Kim, 492 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:22,190 sorry, I can't remember the last name. So I'm wondering if, 493 00:23:22,190 --> 00:23:23,680 you know, we did make 494 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,720 contact well enough. I know the attempt was, okay, nothing 495 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,880 ain't there, but there's 496 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,559 probably more opposition to this than this indicates here. 497 00:23:33,559 --> 00:23:34,799 So how do we go 498 00:23:34,799 --> 00:23:40,500 about revisiting this, I guess, based on what I'm seeing in 499 00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:42,839 here? -If I can cut in. -Commissioner Bruegel. -Thank you, 500 00:23:42,839 --> 00:23:44,119 Chair. I'm glad that we have the public 501 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,470 hearing process because if we're only contacting the owners 502 00:23:47,470 --> 00:23:48,319 of the properties 503 00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:52,039 who may not, I don't know if they live in the area or not, 504 00:23:52,039 --> 00:23:53,839 I'm glad that the 505 00:23:53,839 --> 00:23:55,849 there is that public hearing process so we will have an 506 00:23:55,849 --> 00:23:56,720 opportunity to hear from 507 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,140 the public and that, you know, there have been neighborhood 508 00:23:59,140 --> 00:23:59,799 meetings on this 509 00:23:59,799 --> 00:24:01,799 because I'm really curious to hear what the people who 510 00:24:01,799 --> 00:24:02,680 actually live in that 511 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:07,640 area have to say about that because this map is not, it 512 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:08,440 doesn't help, it doesn't 513 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,180 give me a good sense of where the neighborhood's at so I'm 514 00:24:10,180 --> 00:24:10,640 glad we have 515 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,299 this this evening. -We're doing the public hearing today, 516 00:24:13,299 --> 00:24:16,000 right? -Commissioner Peck, I think I'll throw in maybe 517 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,160 where you're going. I mean, obviously the 518 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,569 knows that the center's certified so they definitely get 519 00:24:20,569 --> 00:24:23,680 them. Where these come back 520 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,089 into play and you have people outside have an opinion but 521 00:24:27,089 --> 00:24:28,279 this comes into play 522 00:24:28,279 --> 00:24:31,450 in far as our vote the percentage of responses that we get 523 00:24:31,450 --> 00:24:32,319 that would be 524 00:24:32,319 --> 00:24:36,690 opposed affects the majority that we have to have or voting 525 00:24:36,690 --> 00:24:37,960 wise on this board 526 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,099 so at this time based on this map we don't have to have a 527 00:24:41,099 --> 00:24:42,240 super majority it 528 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,190 would just be a simple majority vote based on what the no 529 00:24:46,190 --> 00:24:47,640 opposition for that 530 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:52,779 within the 200 foot buffer is. -Okay, so if we get into the 531 00:24:52,779 --> 00:24:55,000 public here and we do 532 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,599 have somebody that is in this area and states their 533 00:24:59,599 --> 00:25:00,720 opposition to it then 534 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,690 that'll fall into place at that time like the super 535 00:25:03,690 --> 00:25:06,559 majority requirement. -Actually 536 00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:10,039 it's a the Ditten code when I did further research does not 537 00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:10,960 require super 538 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,619 majority for this board so we're only going to do it for 539 00:25:13,619 --> 00:25:14,400 council so that we 540 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,160 are able to have written objection all the way up to the 541 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:18,240 actual public hearing 542 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,480 date for council. -Thank you for the correction. 543 00:25:26,279 --> 00:25:31,039 -So staff is recommending denial of Z1529 based on the 544 00:25:31,039 --> 00:25:31,839 considerations 545 00:25:31,839 --> 00:25:36,400 presented and as the request the requested amendment 546 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:37,440 further compromises 547 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,990 the Fry Street overlay district standards. That's the end 548 00:25:40,990 --> 00:25:41,400 of my 549 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:48,319 presentation. Commissioner Bruegel. -Thank you chair. So I 550 00:25:48,319 --> 00:25:50,319 guess I have more of a 551 00:25:50,319 --> 00:25:56,170 comment for staff than a question and this has come up in 552 00:25:56,170 --> 00:25:58,160 in other amendments 553 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:03,710 and ordinances that I've reviewed. Specifically on now this 554 00:26:03,710 --> 00:26:05,160 is the draft so 555 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,599 I wish that this would have gotten fixed before it came to 556 00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:10,519 us but on page 11 on 557 00:26:10,519 --> 00:26:16,930 page 11 twice it mentions hold on I want to find exactly 558 00:26:16,930 --> 00:26:19,160 the words here. Sorry 559 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,480 thank you okay and this is in the draft so I wish it would 560 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:24,039 have gotten fixed 561 00:26:24,039 --> 00:26:31,200 before it came to us. -Of the overlay. -Yeah yeah yeah no 562 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:32,319 my point my point is 563 00:26:32,319 --> 00:26:34,819 just kind of a general one not really specific to this plan 564 00:26:34,819 --> 00:26:35,720 but in general on 565 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,180 page 11 twice it mentions the director of planning and 566 00:26:39,180 --> 00:26:41,359 development or quote his 567 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:46,519 designee and I mean we are an inclusive city and I would 568 00:26:46,519 --> 00:26:47,920 very much like if the 569 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,579 language that we have in these ordinances and amendments 570 00:26:50,579 --> 00:26:51,839 could be more 571 00:26:51,839 --> 00:26:55,650 inclusive as well so that's my that's my comment in general 572 00:26:55,650 --> 00:26:56,519 to staff is like when 573 00:26:56,519 --> 00:26:58,940 we get red line stuff like let's just take care of that 574 00:26:58,940 --> 00:27:00,920 yeah. -Commissioner Bruegel 575 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,319 that will be addressed. -Thank you. -I'm sensitive to that 576 00:27:03,319 --> 00:27:04,720 too so we will start 577 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,099 saying their designee. -Thank you thank you ladies 578 00:27:08,099 --> 00:27:10,759 appreciate it. 579 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,339 -Commissioner Beck. -Thank you chair. Let's see you 580 00:27:16,339 --> 00:27:18,839 indicate that while this parking 581 00:27:18,839 --> 00:27:21,809 does align with the goals of creating more walkable and 582 00:27:21,809 --> 00:27:22,720 pedestrian mine 583 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,380 environment reductions in the requirement on a site-by-site 584 00:27:25,380 --> 00:27:25,799 occurrence 585 00:27:25,799 --> 00:27:29,109 is not a comprehensive approach to analyzing the impact of 586 00:27:29,109 --> 00:27:30,160 parking reduction 587 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,329 and correct you know so let me see if I understand what we 588 00:27:34,329 --> 00:27:35,640 're talking about here 589 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:40,420 the idea here with creating additions where there's fewer 590 00:27:40,420 --> 00:27:41,920 parking spaces is 591 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,059 automatically going to enhance more walking is that the 592 00:27:45,059 --> 00:27:45,920 idea behind what 593 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,500 they're thinking is? -There's well-established literature 594 00:27:50,500 --> 00:27:51,759 on parking 595 00:27:51,759 --> 00:27:56,809 minimums essentially create induced parking demand if there 596 00:27:56,809 --> 00:27:57,519 are parking 597 00:27:57,519 --> 00:28:00,180 spaces people are going to be encouraged to drive and of 598 00:28:00,180 --> 00:28:01,160 course we want there to 599 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,819 be adequate parking in our neighborhood districts in our 600 00:28:03,819 --> 00:28:04,759 downtown for people to 601 00:28:04,759 --> 00:28:07,980 come and visit but for people that live in that area that 602 00:28:07,980 --> 00:28:09,160 may want to walk and 603 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:14,720 do that sort of thing parking minimums are best adopted at 604 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:15,920 a more macro level 605 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,960 rather on a site-by-site basis where they're hard to track 606 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:19,839 and it's hard to 607 00:28:19,839 --> 00:28:23,960 track the impact of those on those developments. -And 608 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:25,240 Sophie if you could talk 609 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,900 a little bit about let's talk about the overlay district 610 00:28:27,900 --> 00:28:28,759 itself the existing 611 00:28:28,759 --> 00:28:31,559 conditions the existing environment the existing land uses 612 00:28:31,559 --> 00:28:32,400 and then the fact 613 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,779 that we also have a campus adjacent to that overlay 614 00:28:35,779 --> 00:28:37,720 district we also have an 615 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,900 off-street parking requirement we have a CIP program how is 616 00:28:40,900 --> 00:28:41,960 that off-street going 617 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,660 to work UNT is looking at their parking program as well 618 00:28:44,660 --> 00:28:45,920 right now and that 619 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,039 obviously dominos into any development that occurs with 620 00:28:50,039 --> 00:28:51,319 this within this area 621 00:28:51,319 --> 00:28:56,099 so we don't want to compromise accessibility parking 622 00:28:56,099 --> 00:28:57,759 requirements to an 623 00:28:57,759 --> 00:29:01,440 extent where it becomes impossible to utilize the site 624 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,000 either or surrounding 625 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,079 properties to be able to be accessed. 626 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,480 -Anybody else? 627 00:29:21,359 --> 00:29:25,039 Okay thank you Sophie. 628 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:34,920 Our next item Ross Cobbiston will be presenting then our 629 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,359 senior planner and 630 00:29:38,359 --> 00:29:42,700 he's going to discuss a change in zoning from industrial 631 00:29:42,700 --> 00:29:44,440 center employment to 632 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:51,960 RCCD. Thank you Ross. -Thank you Chair Maddahl. This is Z15 633 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:53,279 31, Cavendish boot city. 634 00:29:53,279 --> 00:29:56,880 As a request as Maddahl said to recommend to City Council 635 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,119 regarding a rezoning from 636 00:29:59,119 --> 00:30:02,470 industrial center employment ICE district to a regional 637 00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:03,680 center commercial 638 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:11,059 downtown district RCCD on approximately 2.9 acres. Subject 639 00:30:11,059 --> 00:30:12,200 property is located 640 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,890 on the west side of the I-35 frontage road approximately a 641 00:30:16,890 --> 00:30:18,079 thousand feet south 642 00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:22,210 of West University Drive. When we look at the zoning the 643 00:30:22,210 --> 00:30:23,279 intact zoning on the 644 00:30:23,279 --> 00:30:27,920 property is ICE which was established with the 2002 city 645 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,160 rezoning for light 646 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:34,519 industrial uses within the area and it was anticipated to 647 00:30:34,519 --> 00:30:35,400 help support 648 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:40,609 use anticipated support uses such as office warehouse and 649 00:30:40,609 --> 00:30:42,119 hotels to support 650 00:30:42,119 --> 00:30:49,150 the larger ICG district which is industrial commercial 651 00:30:49,150 --> 00:30:50,519 general over to 652 00:30:50,519 --> 00:30:53,180 the west which is located more towards the Denton 653 00:30:53,180 --> 00:30:55,279 Enterprise Airport and 654 00:30:55,279 --> 00:30:59,640 parcels in between this section and the airport. The ICE 655 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,599 district does not permit 656 00:31:02,599 --> 00:31:07,599 retail activity and has a general retail activity and 657 00:31:07,599 --> 00:31:09,720 limits retail activity to 658 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:16,859 only gas station uses by limitation L18 and caps the square 659 00:31:16,859 --> 00:31:18,400 footage for retail 660 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,480 as 10,000 square feet only in conjunction to gas station 661 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,119 uses. RCCD on 662 00:31:26,119 --> 00:31:29,710 the other hand being proposed in the purple permits retail 663 00:31:29,710 --> 00:31:30,599 and regional 664 00:31:30,599 --> 00:31:37,369 activity commercial activity generally throughout the 665 00:31:37,369 --> 00:31:40,119 district. When we look at 666 00:31:40,119 --> 00:31:44,799 RCCD zoning the intent of this is to promote mixed-use 667 00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:45,799 development with urban 668 00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:49,660 character. It permits a wide array of commercial and retail 669 00:31:49,660 --> 00:31:50,960 uses and it's 670 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,769 typically been used as a zoning category for regional 671 00:31:54,769 --> 00:31:57,359 commercial centers along I-35E. 672 00:31:57,359 --> 00:32:00,680 Your staff report indicates kind of those series of 673 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,240 developments along the 674 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:08,119 I-35 corridor where our CCD zoning has allowed large retail 675 00:32:08,119 --> 00:32:10,400 activity. Looking at 676 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,779 some adjacent uses we do have a gas station on the hard 677 00:32:13,779 --> 00:32:15,359 corner on the 678 00:32:15,359 --> 00:32:20,200 southwest corner of 380 and 35. We have permits in for a 679 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,480 future vehicle repair 680 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:28,599 use kind of in between the vacant area. There's a existing 681 00:32:28,599 --> 00:32:29,400 commercial and 682 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:36,569 warehouse storage units existing on site where the north of 683 00:32:36,569 --> 00:32:37,440 the proposed 684 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:42,200 Cavendish site and then down a little bit further is a 685 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:43,559 professional office building 686 00:32:43,559 --> 00:32:47,339 and light manufacturing a little bit further south than 687 00:32:47,339 --> 00:32:49,200 that. As you can see 688 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,319 there's the main retail portions with razor-anched to the 689 00:32:53,319 --> 00:32:55,039 east. Just some 690 00:32:55,039 --> 00:32:57,700 dividing lines here the railroad line as mentioned in your 691 00:32:57,700 --> 00:32:58,599 staff report is an 692 00:32:58,599 --> 00:33:04,730 appropriate divider between industrial uses and commercial 693 00:33:04,730 --> 00:33:06,359 uses and as the 694 00:33:06,359 --> 00:33:10,890 sections grow within this area on the I-35 frontage it 695 00:33:10,890 --> 00:33:12,240 would be better served 696 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:20,200 to be rezoned for future retail uses with I under RCCD 697 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,119 zoning even though at 698 00:33:22,119 --> 00:33:26,400 this point I can't get to the pointer but this area will 699 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:27,160 maintain be 700 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:33,460 maintained as ICE until further rezoning occurs. Future 701 00:33:33,460 --> 00:33:35,759 land use the future land 702 00:33:35,759 --> 00:33:39,660 use map for the comprehensive plan indicates regional mixed 703 00:33:39,660 --> 00:33:40,880 use and then 704 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,430 the dividing line of the railroad shows that industrial 705 00:33:44,430 --> 00:33:46,119 commerce is a land use 706 00:33:46,119 --> 00:33:49,759 category on the west side and that rezoning to RCCD is 707 00:33:49,759 --> 00:33:50,839 consistent with the 708 00:33:50,839 --> 00:33:55,279 future land use plan. So under the considerations for their 709 00:33:55,279 --> 00:33:57,000 request RCCD 710 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,519 would permit commercial and retail uses without zoning 711 00:34:00,519 --> 00:34:02,720 limitations. RCCD has 712 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,910 been used to zone regional commercial areas along I-35. The 713 00:34:06,910 --> 00:34:08,760 rail line is an 714 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,420 appropriate divider between industrial land uses and 715 00:34:11,420 --> 00:34:12,519 commercial land uses and 716 00:34:12,519 --> 00:34:15,630 it's more reasonable that reason that development and 717 00:34:15,630 --> 00:34:16,920 economic patterns would 718 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,550 suggest using the I-35 frontage for commercial activity 719 00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:21,199 instead of 720 00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:25,889 industrial support surfaces so and it is consistent with 721 00:34:25,889 --> 00:34:28,000 the future land use map. 722 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:33,219 So under the criteria for approval points one and two staff 723 00:34:33,219 --> 00:34:35,159 has evaluated and 724 00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:42,190 confers that we are in support of the zoning for those for 725 00:34:42,190 --> 00:34:42,559 those points. 726 00:34:42,559 --> 00:34:46,929 Public notifications were made to property owners 200 and 727 00:34:46,929 --> 00:34:49,159 500 and we only 728 00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:54,440 have one in response which is the major property owner and 729 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:55,920 again we recommend 730 00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,980 approval and I can stand for any questions. Commissioner 731 00:35:00,980 --> 00:35:01,920 Beck. 732 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:12,539 Correct. Correct. We'll just keep it to that level. Thank 733 00:35:12,539 --> 00:35:17,159 you chair. Commissioner 734 00:35:17,159 --> 00:35:21,429 Taylor. So you showed that there was going to be a slice to 735 00:35:21,429 --> 00:35:22,199 the south 736 00:35:22,199 --> 00:35:28,250 potentially rezoned RCCD this is that a request coming? No 737 00:35:28,250 --> 00:35:30,360 that was it's stated 738 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:30,360 in your report that we did ask the developer to consider 739 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,960 that he is a major 740 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:41,079 property owner for the entire area and he was not willing 741 00:35:41,079 --> 00:35:42,320 to help to codify 742 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,630 that at this point and just allows options to be open until 743 00:35:45,630 --> 00:35:46,400 but we did 744 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,840 state that you know there is the potentiality of putting 745 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,159 industrial uses 746 00:35:52,159 --> 00:35:57,159 as that's the zoning on the ground now. And the site 747 00:35:57,159 --> 00:35:58,320 immediately to the north 748 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,460 of this one? Yes. Storage and warehouse? Yes. That front 749 00:36:02,460 --> 00:36:03,880 building has several 750 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,230 retails basis is that correct? Correct. Is that a conform 751 00:36:07,230 --> 00:36:08,679 ing use? Yes it is. It's 752 00:36:08,679 --> 00:36:14,670 retail in conformance to a the warehouse product warehouses 753 00:36:14,670 --> 00:36:15,760 to the back so they're 754 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:22,039 kind of symbiotic. So that's considered like a just lost a 755 00:36:22,039 --> 00:36:23,039 office warehouse 756 00:36:23,039 --> 00:36:26,719 district or something. Okay so and so what's the so the 757 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:27,599 limitation on retail 758 00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:32,130 is less than 10,000 square feet? Correct. And I see okay 759 00:36:32,130 --> 00:36:33,860 yeah I just look at 760 00:36:33,860 --> 00:36:38,969 this and you know we we are planning to do some other work 761 00:36:38,969 --> 00:36:40,400 in this area so I 762 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:45,699 was I agree that the railroad track is a natural barrier 763 00:36:45,699 --> 00:36:47,800 and this area facing an 764 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,909 interstate and a US highway gets a ton of traffic could be 765 00:36:50,909 --> 00:36:52,039 a really good retail 766 00:36:52,039 --> 00:36:57,139 location so I I was wondering again why we what why we aren 767 00:36:57,139 --> 00:36:58,079 't looking at both 768 00:36:58,079 --> 00:37:01,309 the area to the north and the area to the south for a more 769 00:37:01,309 --> 00:37:02,599 appropriate kind of 770 00:37:02,599 --> 00:37:07,130 retail oriented use while not excluding the warehouse 771 00:37:07,130 --> 00:37:09,880 aspect perhaps but but 772 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:18,469 allowing greater retail use. Any other questions for Ross? 773 00:37:18,469 --> 00:37:22,679 Thank you. 774 00:37:33,599 --> 00:37:38,050 I think what I'm going to do at this time it's almost 540 775 00:37:38,050 --> 00:37:42,679 we've got food and 776 00:37:42,679 --> 00:37:46,510 I think we've got some pretty long presentations according 777 00:37:46,510 --> 00:37:47,360 to staff so I 778 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,119 think we'll take a five minute recess if I get food and 779 00:37:50,119 --> 00:37:51,280 then we'll start our 780 00:37:51,280 --> 00:38:03,559 time our next round of presentations. At 548 I think the 781 00:38:03,559 --> 00:38:04,280 next item we have on 782 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,550 here is to receive a report regarding the bicycle and 783 00:38:08,550 --> 00:38:10,920 pedestrian accommodations. 784 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,579 Thank you Chairperson Strange I'll invite Julie Anderson to 785 00:38:13,579 --> 00:38:13,900 make this 786 00:38:13,900 --> 00:38:17,389 presentation for us tonight. Good afternoon Commissioners 787 00:38:17,389 --> 00:38:18,679 good afternoon 788 00:38:18,679 --> 00:38:24,079 it's evening close enough. I am Julie Anderson I am the 789 00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:24,559 bike and ped 790 00:38:24,559 --> 00:38:27,530 coordinator for the city I've been here for a year 791 00:38:27,530 --> 00:38:28,440 yesterday was my year 792 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:32,400 anniversary date. I think up some past meetings there are 793 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:33,199 just some questions 794 00:38:33,199 --> 00:38:35,860 by the Commissioners of how we actually implement the bike 795 00:38:35,860 --> 00:38:37,199 plan what's the P&Z 796 00:38:37,199 --> 00:38:39,699 role in that where are we at so I'm here to just provide 797 00:38:39,699 --> 00:38:40,639 you with a very nice 798 00:38:40,639 --> 00:38:45,650 status update of our bike plan and where we are so just 799 00:38:45,650 --> 00:38:47,000 what we're going to cover 800 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:51,119 today what is this actually an update to I'm going to go 801 00:38:51,119 --> 00:38:51,920 through that part very 802 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,269 briefly to get to the real meat of it which is how we 803 00:38:54,269 --> 00:38:55,519 implement our bike plan 804 00:38:55,519 --> 00:38:58,869 I'm going to go over some of our upcoming and completed 805 00:38:58,869 --> 00:39:00,079 projects and then 806 00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:03,119 do an overview I'm going to switch gears and do an overview 807 00:39:03,119 --> 00:39:04,960 of our 2015 bike ped 808 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,679 counts that we did in September and I actually forgot to 809 00:39:08,679 --> 00:39:10,119 include the bike ped 810 00:39:10,119 --> 00:39:13,199 report count report in your backup so I printed it off 811 00:39:13,199 --> 00:39:14,960 today and handed it to 812 00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:20,239 you so you all have that and I will discuss that at the end 813 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:21,800 so first of all 814 00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,050 so we're all on the same page of where actually the bike 815 00:39:24,050 --> 00:39:24,920 ped plan fits in the 816 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:29,239 overall grand context of the city so this is our it's 817 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:30,519 officially called the 818 00:39:30,519 --> 00:39:33,179 pedestrian and bicycle linkage component of the Denton 819 00:39:33,179 --> 00:39:34,559 mobility plan which means 820 00:39:34,559 --> 00:39:37,460 it's a part of our mobility plan which you guys have heard 821 00:39:37,460 --> 00:39:38,719 a lot about recently 822 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,929 so we have the bike ped component we have the roadway 823 00:39:41,929 --> 00:39:43,159 component and I think 824 00:39:43,159 --> 00:39:47,280 there's also a trucking freight component and these are all 825 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:48,000 part of our 826 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,739 Denton plan 2030 our comprehensive plan so that's where it 827 00:39:51,739 --> 00:39:52,679 falls in the grand 828 00:39:52,679 --> 00:39:55,719 scheme of things and in case you're wondering what exactly 829 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:56,679 is it an update to 830 00:39:56,679 --> 00:40:00,849 why do we call it the update to well in April of 2001 they 831 00:40:00,849 --> 00:40:01,960 passed an ordinance 832 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,920 of the bike ped the ped bike linkage component map and this 833 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:07,860 was just an 834 00:40:07,860 --> 00:40:12,000 ordinance with some talking points about why we plan for 835 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:12,960 pedestrians and 836 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,800 bicyclists three highlights sidewalks should be given 837 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:17,920 priority in funding 838 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,030 talked about bike and ped trails that were eight feet in 839 00:40:21,030 --> 00:40:22,119 width since then 840 00:40:22,119 --> 00:40:26,789 Ashtos upgraded their minimum to 10 and then I talked about 841 00:40:26,789 --> 00:40:27,880 bike routes how we 842 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,050 generally put them on collector streets and those that are 843 00:40:30,050 --> 00:40:31,239 less than 40 miles an 844 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,969 hour but to also consider bike routes on streets that 845 00:40:33,969 --> 00:40:35,199 parallel major materials 846 00:40:35,199 --> 00:40:38,030 this is what the map looks like sorry it's a really awful 847 00:40:38,030 --> 00:40:39,199 looking map nobody 848 00:40:39,199 --> 00:40:42,889 seemed to have an original digital copy of it so this is a 849 00:40:42,889 --> 00:40:44,360 scanned image and 850 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:49,079 this is what it was it was just a map so this was in 2001 851 00:40:49,079 --> 00:40:51,199 we did some work to 852 00:40:51,199 --> 00:40:55,389 implement that but we decided in 2010 about that time we 853 00:40:55,389 --> 00:40:56,719 needed to update it 854 00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:02,110 have kind of a little bit more than just a map so they had 855 00:41:02,110 --> 00:41:04,280 to start it off with 856 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,570 two public meetings one was in March one was in April you 857 00:41:07,570 --> 00:41:08,320 might think those 858 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,139 dates are really far apart from each other but in between 859 00:41:11,139 --> 00:41:12,440 those they had four 860 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,420 focus group meetings focus group included local cyclists 861 00:41:16,420 --> 00:41:18,000 park staff other 862 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,900 people who are in just I think Commissioner Briegel was 863 00:41:19,900 --> 00:41:20,400 actually on 864 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,349 future commissioners you know yeah so those this group of 865 00:41:24,349 --> 00:41:25,760 people were the core 866 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:30,400 group who took feedback and talked with the consultants and 867 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:31,840 city staff on what 868 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,610 to include in the bike plan what routes to choose all those 869 00:41:35,610 --> 00:41:37,800 things so after we 870 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,539 had they had those meetings we presented all of it to the 871 00:41:41,539 --> 00:41:42,840 Commission's you can see 872 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,619 it came to PNZ three different times two work sessions and 873 00:41:46,619 --> 00:41:47,840 then the public 874 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:52,679 hearing and then finally in February of 2012 it was adopted 875 00:41:52,679 --> 00:41:54,239 by City Council so 876 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:59,019 this is our bike plan it's no more just a map it's actually 877 00:41:59,019 --> 00:42:00,360 a document now with 878 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,349 a map that has lots of information and that's what I'm 879 00:42:04,349 --> 00:42:06,719 gonna go over so the 880 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,130 plan it does talk about facilities we're gonna have in our 881 00:42:10,130 --> 00:42:11,480 city so shared routes 882 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,880 a wide curb lane bike lane a side path it also gives a 883 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:20,639 brief it like images 884 00:42:20,639 --> 00:42:23,300 can't think of the correct word sorry images of what the 885 00:42:23,300 --> 00:42:24,039 infrastructure would 886 00:42:24,039 --> 00:42:27,699 look like if you were to implement it on our roadway it 887 00:42:27,699 --> 00:42:30,280 gives a very simple cost 888 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,269 estimates we were finding that their cost estimates are 889 00:42:33,269 --> 00:42:34,320 actually higher than 890 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,460 what they have in here because the bike plan their 891 00:42:36,460 --> 00:42:37,760 estimates they provide don't 892 00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,920 include right of way acquisition reconstruction restriping 893 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,960 or signs and 894 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,170 signals so it's a very base number that they provide in 895 00:42:47,170 --> 00:42:48,400 here and we don't really 896 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:54,519 use the provided numbers very much also what we got out of 897 00:42:54,519 --> 00:42:55,800 the plan is when they 898 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,460 did the public meeting avoided people actually want if you 899 00:42:58,460 --> 00:42:59,079 had a million 900 00:42:59,079 --> 00:43:01,070 dollars what would you do with a million dollars and we 901 00:43:01,070 --> 00:43:02,079 could actually do a whole 902 00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:05,400 lot with a million dollars for bike and pet projects it's 903 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:06,360 only a drop in the 904 00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,090 bucket if you're doing your street you know reconstruction 905 00:43:09,090 --> 00:43:09,920 but a million can 906 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,599 get you really far with bike infrastructure and the number 907 00:43:12,599 --> 00:43:13,039 one thing 908 00:43:13,039 --> 00:43:17,760 people wanted 31% said they want to designate more lanes on 909 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,480 streets and so 910 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,559 that is what we're talking about today is how do we get 911 00:43:22,559 --> 00:43:23,679 those lanes on the 912 00:43:23,679 --> 00:43:27,030 street how do we implement what the bike plan has said and 913 00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:27,800 there's actually two 914 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,460 paths we can go down there's the city of dentin path where 915 00:43:31,460 --> 00:43:33,199 they pay for it we pay 916 00:43:33,199 --> 00:43:37,280 for it or what I call coming soon it's the development that 917 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:38,400 's where P&Z comes 918 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:43,949 in they do have a development has a small and sometimes 919 00:43:43,949 --> 00:43:44,800 significant role in 920 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:49,760 how we implement the bike plan so the city of dentin path 921 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:50,719 there's essentially 922 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,500 three different ways there's our CIP projects our big bond 923 00:43:54,500 --> 00:43:55,480 projects like 924 00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:00,690 bonnie bray mayhill East Hickory those are paid through our 925 00:44:00,690 --> 00:44:01,840 bond project our 926 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,530 bond funding which we did a bond election in 2014 and then 927 00:44:05,530 --> 00:44:06,280 I want to say 928 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:11,389 is also in 2011 or 2012 streets and engineering and 929 00:44:11,389 --> 00:44:12,840 drainage also have other 930 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,429 projects they're working on Hinkle is a drainage project 931 00:44:16,429 --> 00:44:17,679 that's underway it's 932 00:44:17,679 --> 00:44:21,079 not underway it's in design right now we have a bike 933 00:44:21,079 --> 00:44:22,920 accommodation on that roadway 934 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:27,059 so we piggyback on that Montecito was a street 935 00:44:27,059 --> 00:44:28,639 reconstruction project it was 936 00:44:28,639 --> 00:44:32,440 also a route on our bike plan and so when they redid it we 937 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:33,760 added charrows to 938 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,840 that road and then Highland was a street reconstruction as 939 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:37,800 well as a big street 940 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:42,449 project and we came in and also striped as a contraflow 941 00:44:42,449 --> 00:44:45,119 bike lane and that 942 00:44:45,119 --> 00:44:47,780 wasn't a complete street project I mean it was a completely 943 00:44:47,780 --> 00:44:48,599 paid for by streets 944 00:44:48,599 --> 00:44:52,130 part of that came out the bike fund which the third way we 945 00:44:52,130 --> 00:44:53,280 implement is the 946 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,409 bike fund that's dedicated funding each year it's two 947 00:44:56,409 --> 00:44:58,000 hundred thousand dollars 948 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:02,679 and I work with our transportation engineer Noreen house 949 00:45:02,679 --> 00:45:03,440 right on 950 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,929 implementing and spending that money so we put charrows on 951 00:45:06,929 --> 00:45:08,079 Alice this year we 952 00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:11,519 did Oakland Windsor Drive was also a bike fun project that 953 00:45:11,519 --> 00:45:12,380 was a road diet we 954 00:45:12,380 --> 00:45:15,699 went from two lanes each direction to one lane each 955 00:45:15,699 --> 00:45:16,440 direction with the 956 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:21,400 continuous turn lane and then bike lanes on either side so 957 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,599 you might think great 958 00:45:23,599 --> 00:45:26,019 we have all these plans to pay for them but how do you 959 00:45:26,019 --> 00:45:27,199 actually make sure that 960 00:45:27,199 --> 00:45:31,510 all gets implemented with a bike plan so that's my job bike 961 00:45:31,510 --> 00:45:32,639 ped coordinator I 962 00:45:32,639 --> 00:45:35,900 attend lots of meetings to coordinate with people so there 963 00:45:35,900 --> 00:45:36,719 's a monthly 964 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,829 utility and CIP coordination meeting that's where all the 965 00:45:39,829 --> 00:45:40,480 different 966 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,139 departments who work within our right of way so we have 967 00:45:43,139 --> 00:45:44,199 water wastewater 968 00:45:44,199 --> 00:45:48,059 streets our traffic ops people we meet monthly to talk 969 00:45:48,059 --> 00:45:49,760 about our projects and 970 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:54,079 that's actually been very beneficial because previously we 971 00:45:54,079 --> 00:45:55,239 weren't doing that 972 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,590 so there were a few projects that this year that had to get 973 00:45:57,590 --> 00:45:58,400 delayed because we 974 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:02,099 weren't aware that there was a utility project going on I 975 00:46:02,099 --> 00:46:03,679 also meet with our 976 00:46:03,679 --> 00:46:07,000 transportation engineer every month sometimes it's more 977 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,039 than that but we do 978 00:46:08,039 --> 00:46:10,699 meet at least once a month to talk about our upcoming 979 00:46:10,699 --> 00:46:11,840 projects that we've put on 980 00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:17,110 our bike fund this is the most common way that our projects 981 00:46:17,110 --> 00:46:19,199 are funded because 982 00:46:19,199 --> 00:46:22,739 it's usually big projects or it's our money and we're 983 00:46:22,739 --> 00:46:24,360 controlling it so much 984 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,400 simpler for us to do and these are just photos of just in 985 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:28,360 case you were curious 986 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:31,550 that's Hickory Street our Sharos the middle one is our 987 00:46:31,550 --> 00:46:32,719 contraflow bike lane 988 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:37,250 on Highland and then the end one is Sharos on Old North 989 00:46:37,250 --> 00:46:39,679 Julie 990 00:46:39,679 --> 00:46:43,800 Commissioner Bruegel thank you chair so the City Council 991 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,480 allocates $200,000 a 992 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,139 year for the bike plan correct I think the overall 993 00:46:48,139 --> 00:46:50,039 projected cost was like 1.6 994 00:46:50,039 --> 00:46:52,090 million or something so it's gonna be like over a 10-year 995 00:46:52,090 --> 00:46:54,000 project 1.6 not for 996 00:46:54,000 --> 00:47:00,099 the entire plan okay you can maybe 1.5 million could get 997 00:47:00,099 --> 00:47:01,559 you I think what the 998 00:47:01,559 --> 00:47:04,989 plan says is you could do 1.5 million for the it's broken 999 00:47:04,989 --> 00:47:06,280 into immediate short 1000 00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:10,489 range and then long range so yeah so my question is how 1001 00:47:10,489 --> 00:47:11,559 much money has City 1002 00:47:11,559 --> 00:47:15,599 Council set aside to date and how much money has been spent 1003 00:47:15,599 --> 00:47:16,920 from the bike plan 1004 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:21,239 I have a slide for that oh awesome okay continue thank you 1005 00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,679 yes so and this yeah I said this is the most common way 1006 00:47:24,679 --> 00:47:26,159 that we get things paid 1007 00:47:26,159 --> 00:47:31,239 for it because they're large projects that cover a large 1008 00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,280 length of roadway 1009 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,320 there's a development path this is where P&Z comes in as 1010 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:37,920 you know you guys deal 1011 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:42,449 with new development coming in so I attend our development 1012 00:47:42,449 --> 00:47:43,400 review committee 1013 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:48,480 each week I also attend some pre development review 1014 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:49,239 committee meetings 1015 00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,900 with engineering and transportation which has been very 1016 00:47:52,900 --> 00:47:54,960 beneficial I work 1017 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,000 with each of the planning and engineering groups within the 1018 00:47:59,000 --> 00:47:59,440 development 1019 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,980 review and then this is also where you notice other items 1020 00:48:03,980 --> 00:48:05,199 like we should 1021 00:48:05,199 --> 00:48:07,929 probably put bike racks in here you know I advocate for 1022 00:48:07,929 --> 00:48:09,079 bike racks whenever I 1023 00:48:09,079 --> 00:48:11,739 tend to meeting oh this development needs to have a bike 1024 00:48:11,739 --> 00:48:12,639 rack and people will 1025 00:48:12,639 --> 00:48:15,420 say oh well who's riding their bike there I don't know 1026 00:48:15,420 --> 00:48:16,280 maybe the employees 1027 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:19,340 you know employees ride their bikes too so we talk about 1028 00:48:19,340 --> 00:48:20,639 sidewalks and access 1029 00:48:20,639 --> 00:48:24,239 pathways this is where new development pays for the 1030 00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,159 improvements so that's a 1031 00:48:26,159 --> 00:48:29,150 bike rack at Target I imagine we had to ask Target to put 1032 00:48:29,150 --> 00:48:30,239 in bike racks with 1033 00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,679 their development it's not required so they generally don't 1034 00:48:33,679 --> 00:48:34,559 just do it on their 1035 00:48:34,559 --> 00:48:37,840 own but bike racks are super cheap when you compare it to 1036 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:39,000 the cost of a large 1037 00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,460 project you can get the simplest one for 200 if you're 1038 00:48:42,460 --> 00:48:43,760 gonna go really fancy 1039 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:50,480 maybe a thousand dollars so this mixture is a unicorn lake 1040 00:48:55,480 --> 00:49:00,539 correct we just the code I think just recommends it but 1041 00:49:00,539 --> 00:49:02,519 nothing is required 1042 00:49:20,559 --> 00:49:23,559 yeah 1043 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:30,690 well it's hard to encourage development that's already 1044 00:49:30,690 --> 00:49:33,320 built we can't force 1045 00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:36,949 anybody that's already built but we can ask new development 1046 00:49:36,949 --> 00:49:38,000 to put it in or we 1047 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,090 could actually put in our code where it was a requirement 1048 00:49:40,090 --> 00:49:40,599 and I've had 1049 00:49:40,599 --> 00:49:44,320 preliminary discussions with the planning department about 1050 00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:45,079 making that 1051 00:49:45,079 --> 00:49:50,289 happen Commissioner Dudowitz one suggestion to piggyback on 1052 00:49:50,289 --> 00:49:51,239 that is had 1053 00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:53,900 the city pay for it and asked the owner of that property if 1054 00:49:53,900 --> 00:49:54,719 you wouldn't mind 1055 00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:58,469 that putting it in that would might solve that problem 1056 00:49:58,469 --> 00:49:59,119 because if somebody 1057 00:49:59,119 --> 00:50:01,780 came to my property and said hey we're willing to do this 1058 00:50:01,780 --> 00:50:02,880 okay why not right 1059 00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:06,239 we and we've discussed that as well too do we have a 1060 00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:07,920 program of repurchase bike 1061 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:11,139 racks and we offer them to the public there's been some 1062 00:50:11,139 --> 00:50:12,639 legal questions but I 1063 00:50:12,639 --> 00:50:14,639 mean that's definitely an option that we've talked about 1064 00:50:14,639 --> 00:50:16,360 what's the legal do 1065 00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:24,400 we own it do we do we install it yeah yeah nothing it's not 1066 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:24,639 an option 1067 00:50:24,639 --> 00:50:27,679 and we've definitely discussed it yeah I'm just making sure 1068 00:50:27,679 --> 00:50:28,679 that you know Larry 1069 00:50:28,679 --> 00:50:31,110 there is some options out there that you know may not be a 1070 00:50:31,110 --> 00:50:32,119 big issue other than 1071 00:50:32,119 --> 00:50:38,159 going that direction Commissioner Roselle speaking back on 1072 00:50:38,159 --> 00:50:38,760 both you 1073 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:42,110 because you know it's your property owner what what would 1074 00:50:42,110 --> 00:50:43,079 the city be able 1075 00:50:43,079 --> 00:50:45,500 to do to encourage you to incur that cost to put it in 1076 00:50:45,500 --> 00:50:49,239 nothing okay thank you 1077 00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:53,380 I'm serious I mean that we have cars come up to my facility 1078 00:50:53,380 --> 00:50:54,760 mission that was bicycle 1079 00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:58,739 we now we have employees that do ride bicycles and there's 1080 00:50:58,739 --> 00:51:00,039 a there's a way for 1081 00:51:00,039 --> 00:51:02,889 them to secure their bicycles and we make sure of that but 1082 00:51:02,889 --> 00:51:03,699 it's not a for the 1083 00:51:03,699 --> 00:51:06,849 public because the public is not coming to my facility and 1084 00:51:06,849 --> 00:51:07,800 bicycles to get 1085 00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:09,929 service they're coming with their cars I'm sorry but but I 1086 00:51:09,929 --> 00:51:10,639 'm you know I'm be 1087 00:51:10,639 --> 00:51:15,960 honest with you yeah what's your business we service motor 1088 00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:17,159 vehicles 1089 00:51:17,159 --> 00:51:23,380 trucks light trucks heavy-duty trucks yeah I just want to 1090 00:51:23,380 --> 00:51:24,880 give you opportunity 1091 00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:29,199 Commissioner Briegel if I can just chime in real quick 1092 00:51:29,199 --> 00:51:31,280 Commissioner Beck over the 1093 00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,469 summer I met with them a group of cyclists and they had 1094 00:51:34,469 --> 00:51:35,480 mentioned this 1095 00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,900 they're like well why don't we require that in the in the 1096 00:51:37,900 --> 00:51:39,000 parking requirements 1097 00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,719 I'm like that's a good idea and so ever since then whenever 1098 00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:42,239 we see the 1099 00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:44,199 Commission has seen whenever we see a new development I'm 1100 00:51:44,199 --> 00:51:44,880 like hey we're the 1101 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,789 bike racks now like oh yeah we can do that so you know I'm 1102 00:51:47,789 --> 00:51:48,719 just good we can 1103 00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,690 just keep bringing it up and we can't require it but they 1104 00:51:51,690 --> 00:51:52,519 that they seem 1105 00:51:52,519 --> 00:51:56,480 perfectly amenable in those cases to add them and you may 1106 00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:57,280 notice even on some 1107 00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:59,380 plats and site plans and stuff or not class but some of the 1108 00:51:59,380 --> 00:52:00,119 site plans we're 1109 00:52:00,119 --> 00:52:01,840 starting to see not only bike racks but like they're 1110 00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:02,880 pointing about hey here's a 1111 00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:05,960 bike rack so I think we can stay on top of it and I'm it's 1112 00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:06,679 nice to know that 1113 00:52:06,679 --> 00:52:09,449 you're in conversation with you know that this might be 1114 00:52:09,449 --> 00:52:10,539 something as we when 1115 00:52:10,539 --> 00:52:15,639 we relook at our parking requirements as a city that that 1116 00:52:15,639 --> 00:52:16,440 could be something at 1117 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,480 that point that possibly could be written into the code I 1118 00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:20,599 want to chime in 1119 00:52:20,599 --> 00:52:23,019 on that I know we've had some discussions before when 1120 00:52:23,019 --> 00:52:23,920 projects come and 1121 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,239 ask about bike racks I think if it's not a part of our code 1122 00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:28,119 I don't know that 1123 00:52:28,119 --> 00:52:31,360 it's correct for us commissioners when we're getting ready 1124 00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:32,280 to take a vote to 1125 00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,980 ask them they want to put one of those in there I think it 1126 00:52:34,980 --> 00:52:36,039 's voluntary if they 1127 00:52:36,039 --> 00:52:38,059 feel like it's okay to do that with their business they 1128 00:52:38,059 --> 00:52:38,960 should do it I don't 1129 00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:42,369 think it's appropriate for us or at least for me to say you 1130 00:52:42,369 --> 00:52:43,440 know I'd like to 1131 00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,000 see you put a bike rack in there right before take a vote 1132 00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:47,920 and I certainly and I 1133 00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,679 certainly hope that my language in the past has not made it 1134 00:52:50,679 --> 00:52:51,440 seem like I'm 1135 00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,099 twisting their arm to put that in there but I do think 1136 00:52:54,099 --> 00:52:54,900 sometimes it is an 1137 00:52:54,900 --> 00:52:58,329 oversight that people just if just remind them you know hey 1138 00:52:58,329 --> 00:52:58,840 this is a 1139 00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,030 multifamily complex not everyone's gonna have a car sure so 1140 00:53:02,030 --> 00:53:03,179 I think it's worth 1141 00:53:03,179 --> 00:53:06,500 mentioning Commissioner Taylor what's next thank you chair 1142 00:53:06,500 --> 00:53:08,360 I do believe that 1143 00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:13,920 this Commission has the power to recommend changes to the D 1144 00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:14,719 DC so it might 1145 00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:19,480 be appropriate especially in high density and mixed use 1146 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:20,920 zoning categories 1147 00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:24,579 that are designed for downtown and urban type areas to 1148 00:53:24,579 --> 00:53:26,119 begin requiring some 1149 00:53:26,119 --> 00:53:32,610 basic you know bike parking standard or perhaps in the case 1150 00:53:32,610 --> 00:53:34,960 of multifamily you 1151 00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:40,510 might get pushback trying to require it just everywhere but 1152 00:53:40,510 --> 00:53:41,760 I think that could 1153 00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,360 be something that we can look at is I don't do we we have a 1154 00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,000 process where once 1155 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:53,170 per year we recommend changes don't we I'm going to I'm not 1156 00:53:53,170 --> 00:53:54,760 aware of that once 1157 00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,440 per year requirement but shoot the Commission is more than 1158 00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:58,000 welcome to 1159 00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:02,199 initiate this and ask staff to come forward with a DDC 1160 00:54:02,199 --> 00:54:03,760 amendment draft to 1161 00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,420 discuss in a workshop session and then proceed on from 1162 00:54:06,420 --> 00:54:09,599 there to public hearing 1163 00:54:09,599 --> 00:54:13,739 Commissioner Dudowitz thank you on that issue is it 1164 00:54:13,739 --> 00:54:15,239 appropriate for staffed in 1165 00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,820 working with developers and mixed use and other retail 1166 00:54:18,820 --> 00:54:20,400 projects to recommend 1167 00:54:20,400 --> 00:54:23,199 in the development stage or in the discussion or the 1168 00:54:23,199 --> 00:54:24,440 consultant stage to 1169 00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:29,539 say excuse me but the PZ Commission would encourage would 1170 00:54:29,539 --> 00:54:30,719 like you encourage 1171 00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:34,440 bicycle racks were appropriate and considerate and as miss 1172 00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:35,119 Briegel brought 1173 00:54:35,119 --> 00:54:38,110 up it's we've seen it and more and more projects coming 1174 00:54:38,110 --> 00:54:39,440 forward so I'm assuming 1175 00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:43,469 someone's making that observation and suggestion and I know 1176 00:54:43,469 --> 00:54:44,239 that in one 1177 00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:47,139 particular project I met with a developer and suggested it 1178 00:54:47,139 --> 00:54:47,800 ahead of time 1179 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:52,199 so they wouldn't be caught on it in another appropriate 1180 00:54:52,199 --> 00:54:53,119 inappropriate 1181 00:54:53,119 --> 00:54:55,920 situation Commissioner Dudowitz I'm really happy you 1182 00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:56,599 brought that up because 1183 00:54:56,599 --> 00:55:01,159 we do encourage development proposals that come in and 1184 00:55:01,159 --> 00:55:02,599 encourage them to 1185 00:55:02,599 --> 00:55:07,750 provide these facilities and we have also mentioned that it 1186 00:55:07,750 --> 00:55:09,079 is a recommended 1187 00:55:09,079 --> 00:55:12,199 from the PNC that this they would favor that not that their 1188 00:55:12,199 --> 00:55:12,920 recommendation would 1189 00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:15,380 change but it is something they would never do it however 1190 00:55:15,380 --> 00:55:16,199 if we also look at 1191 00:55:16,199 --> 00:55:18,860 the zoning and try and encourage it to looking at is this a 1192 00:55:18,860 --> 00:55:19,320 multifamily 1193 00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,670 development complex and it does warrant that so we 1194 00:55:21,670 --> 00:55:22,840 encourage that those be 1195 00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,519 installed early on and so that it doesn't come in as a 1196 00:55:25,519 --> 00:55:26,760 recommendation type 1197 00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:30,719 component as they move forward but try and get it in on the 1198 00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:32,440 onset unless that 1199 00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:36,760 Commissioner back the chair do we spend or can we spend 1200 00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:37,960 some of that money we 1201 00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,500 have there to educate these businesses like that say we go 1202 00:55:41,500 --> 00:55:42,639 to these businesses 1203 00:55:42,639 --> 00:55:46,360 where there's no bike red you know I'm opposed to you know 1204 00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:47,440 imposing our will on 1205 00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:51,690 to but you've got a lot of useful information here I think 1206 00:55:51,690 --> 00:55:52,800 it's part of our 1207 00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:59,909 didn't plan 2032 progresses long and just make them 1208 00:55:59,909 --> 00:56:01,320 business owners aware that 1209 00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:05,179 this kind of travel is expanding and how beneficial it 1210 00:56:05,179 --> 00:56:06,519 would be to their business 1211 00:56:06,519 --> 00:56:11,639 so can we spend some of that money on educating the 1212 00:56:11,639 --> 00:56:12,840 businesses I'm sorry what 1213 00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:16,519 what money the 200,000 part of that no the 200,000 is just 1214 00:56:16,519 --> 00:56:17,400 for infrastructure 1215 00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:21,800 I do have a separate money I have $20,000 for the bike head 1216 00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:22,559 program to do 1217 00:56:22,559 --> 00:56:26,920 safety education outreach and that could be something I use 1218 00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:29,320 it towards as of yet 1219 00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:35,920 no yes I would I have provided to the Planning Department a 1220 00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:37,159 guideline of bike 1221 00:56:37,159 --> 00:56:41,550 racks to them so that when they do tell a developer we want 1222 00:56:41,550 --> 00:56:42,159 we think you should 1223 00:56:42,159 --> 00:56:44,659 provide a bike rack they have standards and some guides 1224 00:56:44,659 --> 00:56:45,840 that they can look at so 1225 00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:49,989 it's not just the wave rack honestly the wave rack is not 1226 00:56:49,989 --> 00:56:51,360 the best rack so we're 1227 00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:54,909 trying to get away from using the wave rack also lots of 1228 00:56:54,909 --> 00:56:57,880 other cities have bike 1229 00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:00,739 parking requirements we would not be the only one you can 1230 00:57:00,739 --> 00:57:02,039 do it either just a 1231 00:57:02,039 --> 00:57:05,659 blanket statement all development that's not industrial has 1232 00:57:05,659 --> 00:57:06,559 to have or single 1233 00:57:06,559 --> 00:57:11,519 family has to have five percent or you can do it by zoning 1234 00:57:11,519 --> 00:57:13,000 so only certain 1235 00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,659 classification to it there's also different ways you can do 1236 00:57:15,659 --> 00:57:17,039 it but again 1237 00:57:17,039 --> 00:57:20,010 we're not the only city to do it so it's definitely a good 1238 00:57:20,010 --> 00:57:21,239 thing to do also if 1239 00:57:21,239 --> 00:57:24,289 we're making this try to be a bike friendly city having 1240 00:57:24,289 --> 00:57:25,360 bike parking is a 1241 00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:28,840 big part of making you want to ride your bike if you ride 1242 00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:29,599 your bike somewhere and 1243 00:57:29,599 --> 00:57:31,960 you can't park it there you're not going to want to ride it 1244 00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:33,159 it legitimizes that 1245 00:57:33,159 --> 00:57:36,130 your form of transportation is by providing you a place to 1246 00:57:36,130 --> 00:57:37,480 park it that's 1247 00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:42,119 not to a sign post or railing 1248 00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:48,809 okay so we have these different ways that we do but we also 1249 00:57:48,809 --> 00:57:50,159 know okay we're 1250 00:57:50,159 --> 00:57:52,820 having these meetings to plan for bikes and peds how do we 1251 00:57:52,820 --> 00:57:54,199 actually do that well 1252 00:57:54,199 --> 00:57:57,340 we have design manuals and we have guidance so we have our 1253 00:57:57,340 --> 00:57:57,880 denton 1254 00:57:57,880 --> 00:57:59,929 development code which are probably all familiar with 1255 00:57:59,929 --> 00:58:01,039 chapter 20 is the one that 1256 00:58:01,039 --> 00:58:04,099 talks about transportation and it does have three different 1257 00:58:04,099 --> 00:58:05,039 facilities that it 1258 00:58:05,039 --> 00:58:07,840 talks about sidewalks which are required on all 1259 00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:09,280 neighborhood and arterial streets 1260 00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,809 an on-road bicycle path which we would consider a bike lane 1261 00:58:12,809 --> 00:58:14,360 or a share own these 1262 00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,619 are required on arterials and in accordance with the bike 1263 00:58:17,619 --> 00:58:19,199 ped plan and an 1264 00:58:19,199 --> 00:58:23,619 off-road combo bike ped path that's required on collectors 1265 00:58:23,619 --> 00:58:24,559 freeways and in 1266 00:58:24,559 --> 00:58:27,989 accordance with our bike ped plan so currently we build 1267 00:58:27,989 --> 00:58:29,360 eight foot sidewalks 1268 00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:35,280 on all of our collector streets eight foot's really good 1269 00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:36,920 for pedestrians but I 1270 00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:40,869 wouldn't quite consider eight foot sidewalk a bicycle 1271 00:58:40,869 --> 00:58:43,159 accommodation it can 1272 00:58:43,159 --> 00:58:49,199 be useful in some instances so all of these if so the sorry 1273 00:58:49,199 --> 00:58:50,239 the development 1274 00:58:50,239 --> 00:58:54,119 code classifies what our streets are and sort of defines 1275 00:58:54,119 --> 00:58:55,599 them but they all need 1276 00:58:55,599 --> 00:58:59,230 to be in accordance with our transportation criteria manual 1277 00:58:59,230 --> 00:58:59,800 which as 1278 00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:05,050 you can see was last updated in July of 2013 so section 2 1279 00:59:05,050 --> 00:59:06,400 talks about pedestrian 1280 00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,750 bicycle facility design that's where it says bicycle 1281 00:59:09,750 --> 00:59:12,239 parking is recommended and 1282 00:59:12,239 --> 00:59:16,230 then it says that all the alignments can be found in the 1283 00:59:16,230 --> 00:59:17,840 appendix a of cross 1284 00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:22,559 sections so the code defines it and then the criteria 1285 00:59:22,559 --> 00:59:23,840 manual actually gives you 1286 00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:28,639 that what the cross-section is we have the denton the 1287 00:59:28,639 --> 00:59:30,079 downtown development 1288 00:59:30,079 --> 00:59:33,860 into implementation plan the D tip they have cross sections 1289 00:59:33,860 --> 00:59:34,760 in there for the 1290 00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:37,420 downtown section and that actually was included in this 1291 00:59:37,420 --> 00:59:38,480 update to the criteria 1292 00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:41,829 manual so the downtown streets that are in the D tip do 1293 00:59:41,829 --> 00:59:43,639 have cross sections for 1294 00:59:43,639 --> 00:59:48,480 bike accommodations I could not find our cross sections for 1295 00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:51,320 streets online I 1296 00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:53,980 wasn't able to get my hands on to them before this meeting 1297 00:59:53,980 --> 00:59:55,039 but our bike plan 1298 00:59:55,039 --> 00:59:58,690 does have some of them in the back so you can see up top is 1299 00:59:58,690 --> 00:59:59,599 the current 1300 00:59:59,599 --> 01:00:04,280 accommodation what you would do for a mixed-use collector 1301 01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:05,119 Street essentially 1302 01:00:05,119 --> 01:00:09,070 it's just a wide outside lane or you could have the side 1303 01:00:09,070 --> 01:00:10,519 path on either side 1304 01:00:10,519 --> 01:00:14,639 but the bike plans suggest different alternatives we can 1305 01:00:14,639 --> 01:00:16,039 add a share you can 1306 01:00:16,039 --> 01:00:19,510 add bike lanes you can add the wide curb lane which I would 1307 01:00:19,510 --> 01:00:21,380 recommend we I would 1308 01:00:21,380 --> 01:00:26,000 hardly ever recommend to do just a wide outside lane it 1309 01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:27,599 also has cross sections 1310 01:00:27,599 --> 01:00:31,769 for Julie yes I know we've got two other items to go before 1311 01:00:31,769 --> 01:00:32,840 630 I'm told we've 1312 01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:35,699 got to cover at least one of them do you know how many more 1313 01:00:35,699 --> 01:00:37,199 and we may just have 1314 01:00:37,199 --> 01:00:40,809 to stop at 630 we may have to come back after P&Z to do 1315 01:00:40,809 --> 01:00:42,400 these other two yeah I 1316 01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:47,360 think I'm almost done with that's what we would prefer 1317 01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:48,719 design manuals yeah I 1318 01:00:48,719 --> 01:00:50,929 can go through these real quick and we can stop if you want 1319 01:00:50,929 --> 01:00:51,699 when we get to bike 1320 01:00:51,699 --> 01:00:55,820 counts because that is kind of a separate topic okay we 1321 01:00:55,820 --> 01:00:56,880 have various 1322 01:00:56,880 --> 01:01:01,280 design manuals that we use to implement it we have our asht 1323 01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:02,760 ow guide the urban 1324 01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,389 bikeway design guide this is not adopted this is for sort 1325 01:01:06,389 --> 01:01:07,440 of urban streets as 1326 01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:12,739 opposed to large highways text I also had memorandum back 1327 01:01:12,739 --> 01:01:14,599 in 2011 that all 1328 01:01:14,599 --> 01:01:18,050 text our roads will accommodate peds and bikes there's 1329 01:01:18,050 --> 01:01:20,920 different levels of what 1330 01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:22,880 they do based on if they're reconstructing it or just 1331 01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:23,360 working within 1332 01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:26,019 the present right of way and that's my question sorry I 1333 01:01:26,019 --> 01:01:27,039 know that we're short 1334 01:01:27,039 --> 01:01:31,239 on time Commissioner Bribble thank you chair so we I know 1335 01:01:31,239 --> 01:01:33,119 in our debt in 2030 1336 01:01:33,119 --> 01:01:37,519 plan we had emphasized designing our roads as per NACTO 1337 01:01:37,519 --> 01:01:38,199 standards which have 1338 01:01:38,199 --> 01:01:41,170 a more of a complete streets design right than ashtow so I 1339 01:01:41,170 --> 01:01:42,280 'm curious and I 1340 01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:46,690 know our our bike plan was written with ashtow standards in 1341 01:01:46,690 --> 01:01:47,719 mind and I assume 1342 01:01:47,719 --> 01:01:51,469 that our transportation manual guidelines are also I'm 1343 01:01:51,469 --> 01:01:52,519 assuming I wasn't 1344 01:01:52,519 --> 01:01:58,070 here in 2013 so I'm just wondering is I guess maybe this 1345 01:01:58,070 --> 01:01:59,239 would be a question for 1346 01:01:59,239 --> 01:02:01,519 a different work session but as we're and I'm trying to 1347 01:02:01,519 --> 01:02:02,480 keep this as brief as 1348 01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:05,309 possible because I know we're short on time how are we 1349 01:02:05,309 --> 01:02:07,440 implementing our vision 1350 01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:11,760 for NACTO designed roads if if all of our old documents 1351 01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:12,800 have ashtow 1352 01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:17,099 requirements so ash toe is the standard that's what we've 1353 01:02:17,099 --> 01:02:18,440 adopted it has been 1354 01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:22,599 updated in 2012 so our bike plan is not current with what 1355 01:02:22,599 --> 01:02:24,199 the most current ashtow 1356 01:02:24,199 --> 01:02:29,219 is NACTO is more of a guideline as opposed to they're a 1357 01:02:29,219 --> 01:02:29,719 little bit 1358 01:02:29,719 --> 01:02:35,019 different this we can adopt it some cities have adopted it 1359 01:02:35,019 --> 01:02:35,659 as a design 1360 01:02:35,659 --> 01:02:39,920 manual I know that when I go to meetings when I'm 1361 01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:41,059 advocating for our bike 1362 01:02:41,059 --> 01:02:44,239 infrastructure I definitely reference NACTO our 1363 01:02:44,239 --> 01:02:45,639 transportation engineer Noreen 1364 01:02:45,639 --> 01:02:49,239 is aware of it so it's really just having the conversation 1365 01:02:49,239 --> 01:02:51,679 at the stage of 1366 01:02:51,679 --> 01:02:53,940 where we have the conversation and we're at the very 1367 01:02:53,940 --> 01:02:56,599 beginning is this and is that 1368 01:02:56,599 --> 01:02:59,260 I mean is that working so far do we have do you think we 1369 01:02:59,260 --> 01:03:00,039 might have to update 1370 01:03:00,039 --> 01:03:05,929 our it's working there are some things that I haven't been 1371 01:03:05,929 --> 01:03:07,159 able to get because 1372 01:03:07,159 --> 01:03:09,440 it's not in our design manual right so that might be 1373 01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:10,519 something that the PNC 1374 01:03:10,519 --> 01:03:13,840 Commission might have to push forward if it's in our 2030 1375 01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:14,840 plan but it's not in 1376 01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:18,789 any of our I guess design criteria manuals right there's a 1377 01:03:18,789 --> 01:03:19,119 disconnect it 1378 01:03:19,119 --> 01:03:22,760 does get a little difficult to implement with other 1379 01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:24,599 departments occasionally when 1380 01:03:24,599 --> 01:03:29,300 well it's not our design manual okay it's a goal but it's 1381 01:03:29,300 --> 01:03:29,440 not required okay 1382 01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,079 thank you Commissioner Taylor was first thank you 1383 01:03:32,079 --> 01:03:37,320 chair to follow up on on those that line of questions you 1384 01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:38,360 stated that the 1385 01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:43,920 transportation criteria manual was updated in 2013 but yeah 1386 01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:45,079 but none of the 1387 01:03:45,079 --> 01:03:50,519 none of the non downtown implementation plan streets street 1388 01:03:50,519 --> 01:03:51,320 profiles were 1389 01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:55,460 updated so our current transportation manual does not 1390 01:03:55,460 --> 01:03:57,440 indicate bike lanes on 1391 01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:00,409 arterials for example I do not think it does I couldn't 1392 01:04:00,409 --> 01:04:02,000 find them and I get it 1393 01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:06,139 back in time yeah and so but our ordinance requires it does 1394 01:04:06,139 --> 01:04:07,199 does didn't 1395 01:04:07,199 --> 01:04:10,650 development code trump the transportation criteria manual 1396 01:04:10,650 --> 01:04:11,079 or do our 1397 01:04:11,079 --> 01:04:14,510 streets get built to a criteria manual as opposed to our 1398 01:04:14,510 --> 01:04:15,920 ordinance I'm not sure 1399 01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:21,480 which one trumps which code trumps the manual and the code 1400 01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:22,360 does say that we 1401 01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,909 have to require bike lane on road bike lanes on arterials 1402 01:04:25,909 --> 01:04:27,679 okay and so whenever 1403 01:04:27,679 --> 01:04:31,940 is what would it take to get our our criteria manual to 1404 01:04:31,940 --> 01:04:33,679 match the ordinance 1405 01:04:33,679 --> 01:04:38,639 that was written in 2001 it would require an update and I'm 1406 01:04:38,639 --> 01:04:39,320 not quite sure 1407 01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:42,840 of that process I imagine it has to go through many 1408 01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:44,480 engineering streets 1409 01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:48,619 drainage all those people I don't know if that's staff 1410 01:04:48,619 --> 01:04:50,000 initiated I imagine it 1411 01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:54,139 is so and it's a large undertaking I imagine so and is 1412 01:04:54,139 --> 01:04:56,039 there any review where 1413 01:04:56,039 --> 01:04:59,389 if a street is designed to the current the criteria manual 1414 01:04:59,389 --> 01:05:00,239 but not to the 1415 01:05:00,239 --> 01:05:05,409 ordinance where it would be reviewed and seen before it's 1416 01:05:05,409 --> 01:05:08,440 built reviewed by staff 1417 01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:11,960 or public reviewed by somebody who would notice that it's 1418 01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:12,840 not built to the 1419 01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:16,800 ordinance staff I feel like staff is fairly confident of 1420 01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:18,119 what the manual say 1421 01:05:18,119 --> 01:05:24,340 and Ron could possibly speak better to it thanks Ron as you 1422 01:05:24,340 --> 01:05:26,719 all know PSR brought 1423 01:05:26,719 --> 01:05:30,429 to you all a process to amend the criteria manuals some 1424 01:05:30,429 --> 01:05:32,360 time ago and it's 1425 01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:36,889 as Julie mentioned a staff-initiated exercise that we can 1426 01:05:36,889 --> 01:05:37,920 do certainly 1427 01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:40,579 something that we are looking at doing is amending the 1428 01:05:40,579 --> 01:05:41,719 criteria manual and we 1429 01:05:41,719 --> 01:05:45,420 are able to do that it does not need necessarily to need to 1430 01:05:45,420 --> 01:05:46,360 go through this 1431 01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:50,159 body or City Council it can be done primarily in-house and 1432 01:05:50,159 --> 01:05:51,440 so that's to 1433 01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:54,159 that's to change the criteria manuals I was specifically 1434 01:05:54,159 --> 01:05:55,199 talking about if there 1435 01:05:55,199 --> 01:06:00,159 is a design that doesn't meet ordinance does it get built 1436 01:06:00,159 --> 01:06:02,079 anyway if it does not 1437 01:06:02,079 --> 01:06:05,280 meet the development code a development code that's correct 1438 01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:07,000 if it meets if it's 1439 01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:10,159 built to the criteria manual which conflicts with debt and 1440 01:06:10,159 --> 01:06:11,360 development code 1441 01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:17,059 right are we building streets that meet the criteria manual 1442 01:06:17,059 --> 01:06:19,159 but are violating the 1443 01:06:19,159 --> 01:06:22,010 debt and development code well well we're certainly gonna 1444 01:06:22,010 --> 01:06:22,559 try to make sure 1445 01:06:22,559 --> 01:06:24,909 that whatever is built meets the development code a 1446 01:06:24,909 --> 01:06:25,800 criterion manual 1447 01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:28,460 should follow and something that we would have to look into 1448 01:06:28,460 --> 01:06:29,360 I can't answer 1449 01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:33,079 that question I'm assuming that if they follow the 1450 01:06:33,079 --> 01:06:34,360 development code and that's 1451 01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:38,309 the that's how they're constructed but again I can't 1452 01:06:38,309 --> 01:06:40,639 confirm or deny thank you 1453 01:06:40,639 --> 01:06:45,199 Commissioner dead always Julie couple questions just for 1454 01:06:45,199 --> 01:06:47,159 clarification are you 1455 01:06:47,159 --> 01:06:52,139 a department or a person or both I guess I'm a department 1456 01:06:52,139 --> 01:06:53,760 slash person I fall 1457 01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:56,800 under the Department of Transportation and I'm the only 1458 01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:58,159 person in the bike 1459 01:06:58,159 --> 01:07:01,130 pedicure report into which group Department of 1460 01:07:01,130 --> 01:07:02,480 Transportation Mark Nelson 1461 01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:07,559 is my boss okay when your group decides to put a bike lane 1462 01:07:07,559 --> 01:07:09,119 in let's say Montecito 1463 01:07:09,119 --> 01:07:16,079 per case or shared lane okay who's who approved that that 1464 01:07:16,079 --> 01:07:18,239 you could do that 1465 01:07:18,239 --> 01:07:21,889 well it's on their bike plan so we're what person or 1466 01:07:21,889 --> 01:07:23,360 department said that's 1467 01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:28,909 okay to put it there are my boss and engineering okay okay 1468 01:07:28,909 --> 01:07:30,079 so all right so 1469 01:07:30,079 --> 01:07:32,739 I'm saying did anybody talk to the residents on that street 1470 01:07:32,739 --> 01:07:33,360 yes they did 1471 01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:36,539 okay so there is some process where we have some citizens 1472 01:07:36,539 --> 01:07:37,679 being having some 1473 01:07:37,679 --> 01:07:40,340 review is saying hey that's a good idea or a bad idea for 1474 01:07:40,340 --> 01:07:41,719 whatever reason yes 1475 01:07:41,719 --> 01:07:46,840 okay okay so just very quickly is an overview of our 1476 01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:48,000 upcoming projects and 1477 01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:51,849 the projects we've done up to date by end of 16 will have 1478 01:07:51,849 --> 01:07:52,960 nine miles of bike 1479 01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:55,380 lanes and 24 miles of shared routes we have upcoming 1480 01:07:55,380 --> 01:07:56,599 projects on Eagle Drive 1481 01:07:56,599 --> 01:08:01,360 Congress Paisley and Parkside and Amherst which you can see 1482 01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:02,639 in orange 1483 01:08:02,639 --> 01:08:06,409 here's just another overview of our projects this year and 1484 01:08:06,409 --> 01:08:07,480 our funding and 1485 01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:12,190 what we estimated our cost to be and then this is how much 1486 01:08:12,190 --> 01:08:13,599 we have spent on 1487 01:08:13,599 --> 01:08:18,149 the bike plan or allocated so just shy of over 1 million 1488 01:08:18,149 --> 01:08:19,600 has been allocated to 1489 01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:25,500 us we've spent our allocated 800,000 and we have 200,000 to 1490 01:08:25,500 --> 01:08:27,199 work with 281,000 to 1491 01:08:27,199 --> 01:08:29,899 work with this year and some of that's already been set 1492 01:08:29,899 --> 01:08:31,039 aside for the Eagle 1493 01:08:31,039 --> 01:08:35,270 Drive project so that's what we have spent the money on I 1494 01:08:35,270 --> 01:08:36,560 think my next slide 1495 01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:43,279 is bike counts yes so Julie could we Julie I think because 1496 01:08:43,279 --> 01:08:43,840 of what I've been 1497 01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:46,189 told we've got a full house out there that we need to start 1498 01:08:46,189 --> 01:08:47,479 right on 630 would 1499 01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,189 this be a good place to pause an excellent place to come 1500 01:08:50,189 --> 01:08:51,239 back to us okay 1501 01:08:51,239 --> 01:08:55,529 before we close the work session we have an item it's item 1502 01:08:55,529 --> 01:08:57,039 C in our work session 1503 01:08:57,039 --> 01:09:00,739 it's the DCA 15 and we're going to come back just as 1504 01:09:00,739 --> 01:09:02,319 Commissioner so nobody 1505 01:09:02,319 --> 01:09:05,149 leave after our meeting out in public we're going to come 1506 01:09:05,149 --> 01:09:06,119 back in here to work 1507 01:09:06,119 --> 01:09:09,090 session and reopen work session to hear that item before we 1508 01:09:09,090 --> 01:09:10,000 head out tonight 1509 01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:13,279 so we have to do that when we run along on another other 1510 01:09:13,279 --> 01:09:19,399 thing so and be and but 1511 01:09:19,399 --> 01:09:22,640 due to the time that B is going to take staff has asked 1512 01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:24,079 that we just postpone 1513 01:09:24,079 --> 01:09:26,109 that completely and they come back because that's about 1514 01:09:26,109 --> 01:09:27,079 another 40 minutes 1515 01:09:27,079 --> 01:09:32,229 so sorry guys for showing up tonight I'm sorry we run long 1516 01:09:32,229 --> 01:09:33,079 but thanks for being 1517 01:09:33,079 --> 01:09:37,039 willing to come back so Commissioner have any question 1518 01:09:37,039 --> 01:09:37,520 about our what our 1519 01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:40,220 schedule is going to be for our closed work session and we 1520 01:09:40,220 --> 01:09:41,119 reconvene right at 1521 01:09:41,119 --> 01:09:43,920 630 so Commissioner Dudowitz I'm gonna be 1522 01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:49,939 postponed to another date yes completely okay with that it 1523 01:09:49,939 --> 01:09:52,079 is 621 and we're going 1524 01:09:52,079 --> 01:09:56,800 to close this we're gonna know we're gonna close it or how 1525 01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:57,239 should we do that 1526 01:09:57,239 --> 01:10:02,289 for coming back close it and then reopen another one okay 6 1527 01:10:02,289 --> 01:10:03,239 21 we're going to 1528 01:10:03,239 --> 01:10:08,409 close the work session and we'll reconvene in chambers at 6 1529 01:10:08,409 --> 01:10:14,520 30 good 1530 01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:17,189 evening and welcome to the planning and zoning Commission 1531 01:10:17,189 --> 01:10:19,600 meeting it is 630 and 1532 01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:22,640 our meeting has been duly posted and we have a quorum 1533 01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:24,159 present so I'll call our 1534 01:10:24,159 --> 01:10:27,449 meeting to order and our first order of business is going 1535 01:10:27,449 --> 01:10:28,600 to be to rise and say 1536 01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:33,119 the pledge the US and the Texas flags 1537 01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:55,859 Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state, 1538 01:10:55,859 --> 01:10:59,600 under God, one indivisible. 1539 01:11:08,119 --> 01:11:12,699 The next item on our agenda is going to be the minutes do 1540 01:11:12,699 --> 01:11:16,000 we have a motion? 1541 01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:33,609 Commissioner Bruegel I move approval of the minutes. Is 1542 01:11:33,609 --> 01:11:35,840 there a second? Second. 1543 01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:54,569 Commissioner Taven thank you. Call for a vote on the board. 1544 01:11:54,569 --> 01:11:57,560 Motion carries 6-0 1545 01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:08,390 with one recusal. Next item is our consent agenda. Chair, 1546 01:12:08,390 --> 01:12:12,640 Commissioner Taylor. 1547 01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:16,500 I move approval of our consent agenda. Commissioner Det 1548 01:12:16,500 --> 01:12:17,439 owitz. I second the 1549 01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:29,579 motion. The first and a second I'll call for a vote on the 1550 01:12:29,579 --> 01:12:33,560 board. Motion carries 1551 01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:41,859 7-0. Our next item will be our public hearings. The first 1552 01:12:41,859 --> 01:12:42,760 item we're going to 1553 01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:48,520 have is going to be item Z15-002 and I will open the public 1554 01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:49,439 hearing now and ask 1555 01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:53,579 for from all to call on presentation. Just for the record 1556 01:12:53,579 --> 01:13:00,800 that Z15-0029. Thank you. 1557 01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:03,529 Thank you Chairperson. I'm going to ask Sophie Humer, 1558 01:13:03,529 --> 01:13:04,520 Associate Planner to make 1559 01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:10,069 this presentation. Good evening Commissioners. I'm here 1560 01:13:10,069 --> 01:13:13,239 presenting Z15-0029 1561 01:13:13,239 --> 01:13:17,079 Freistree overlay district amendment. The request before 1562 01:13:17,079 --> 01:13:18,199 you is to hold a public 1563 01:13:18,199 --> 01:13:21,409 hearing and consider making a recommendation to City 1564 01:13:21,409 --> 01:13:22,579 Council regarding 1565 01:13:22,579 --> 01:13:27,359 amending sub chapter 3575 the Freistree overlay district to 1566 01:13:27,359 --> 01:13:27,960 create a new 1567 01:13:27,960 --> 01:13:31,000 sub district and development standards for a mixed-use 1568 01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:32,239 building on approximately 1569 01:13:32,239 --> 01:13:38,380 1.7 acres. Subject property has approximately 220 feet of 1570 01:13:38,380 --> 01:13:38,960 frontage on 1571 01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:42,189 West Oak and approximately 280 feet of frontage on West H 1572 01:13:42,189 --> 01:13:44,119 ickory Street. It's 1573 01:13:44,119 --> 01:13:47,409 also located between Freistree and Avenue B however it does 1574 01:13:47,409 --> 01:13:48,279 not have frontage on 1575 01:13:48,279 --> 01:13:54,859 either of those roads. Subject the proposed sub district is 1576 01:13:54,859 --> 01:13:55,920 also located in 1577 01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:59,069 a downtown commercial general zoning district but it's 1578 01:13:59,069 --> 01:14:00,279 further located within 1579 01:14:00,279 --> 01:14:03,060 the Freistree overlay district. I'll get into those 1580 01:14:03,060 --> 01:14:04,920 regulations later in the 1581 01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:08,090 presentation. It's also important to remember that multif 1582 01:14:08,090 --> 01:14:09,159 amily and retail are 1583 01:14:09,159 --> 01:14:13,390 also permitted by right in the zoning district and in the 1584 01:14:13,390 --> 01:14:16,119 overlay district. So 1585 01:14:16,119 --> 01:14:18,779 the Freistree overlay district was created in 2000 to 1586 01:14:18,779 --> 01:14:19,479 preserve the unique 1587 01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:23,170 history and character of the area. In that sub area the 1588 01:14:23,170 --> 01:14:24,159 building height was 1589 01:14:24,159 --> 01:14:28,000 limited to 45 feet and three stories and the density was 1590 01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:29,520 based on a minimum unit 1591 01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:33,279 size. For example efficiency apartments were limited to 1592 01:14:33,279 --> 01:14:35,079 units that were no less 1593 01:14:35,079 --> 01:14:41,750 than a thousand square feet. In 2010 this Freistree overlay 1594 01:14:41,750 --> 01:14:43,079 district was further 1595 01:14:43,079 --> 01:14:46,520 amended to accommodate a mixed-use development known as sub 1596 01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:48,000 area B. Here the 1597 01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:52,399 height was permitted to be 55 feet no taller than four 1598 01:14:52,399 --> 01:14:54,039 stories and the density 1599 01:14:54,039 --> 01:15:02,279 is at 72.5 units an acre. The amendment before you tonight 1600 01:15:02,279 --> 01:15:03,319 the applicant is 1601 01:15:03,319 --> 01:15:06,000 proposing to further amend the Freistree overlay district 1602 01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,199 creating sub area B1 to 1603 01:15:08,199 --> 01:15:11,390 accommodate multifamily and retail. It's the yellow sub 1604 01:15:11,390 --> 01:15:13,000 district located on the 1605 01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:18,119 screen in red. The proposed sub area B1 the permitted 1606 01:15:18,119 --> 01:15:19,239 height would be 58 feet 1607 01:15:19,239 --> 01:15:23,039 capped at five stories and the density here would be 88.2 1608 01:15:23,039 --> 01:15:24,000 units an acre. 1609 01:15:24,000 --> 01:15:29,960 The applicant is also requesting changes to the multifamily 1610 01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:31,359 parking regulations 1611 01:15:31,359 --> 01:15:35,310 in the Freistree overlay district. Sub area A and B for 1612 01:15:35,310 --> 01:15:36,720 multifamily units 1613 01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:42,399 require one space for units with two or more bedrooms. Sub 1614 01:15:42,399 --> 01:15:43,479 area B1 is 1615 01:15:43,479 --> 01:15:46,979 asking for units with two or more bedrooms to require only 1616 01:15:46,979 --> 01:15:49,680 0.75 spaces. No 1617 01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:52,649 other amendments are going to be made to the other parking 1618 01:15:52,649 --> 01:15:53,680 ratios within that 1619 01:15:53,680 --> 01:15:59,229 district. This is just a summary of the changes and as you 1620 01:15:59,229 --> 01:16:00,159 move through your 1621 01:16:00,159 --> 01:16:05,539 discussion we can refer back to this slide. I want to talk 1622 01:16:05,539 --> 01:16:07,279 a little bit about 1623 01:16:07,279 --> 01:16:09,939 the neighborhood university compatibility future land use 1624 01:16:09,939 --> 01:16:10,600 designation 1625 01:16:10,600 --> 01:16:16,250 and its importance to this area. Debt and Plan 2030 calls 1626 01:16:16,250 --> 01:16:17,520 out some very specific 1627 01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:21,239 goals for this area. The neighborhood university 1628 01:16:21,239 --> 01:16:22,439 compatibility area should 1629 01:16:22,439 --> 01:16:27,399 provide a gradual transition and scale using character as 1630 01:16:27,399 --> 01:16:29,000 well as intensity 1631 01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:32,390 between the universities and the surrounding neighborhoods. 1632 01:16:32,390 --> 01:16:33,399 Development 1633 01:16:33,399 --> 01:16:36,060 should encourage uses that are in close proximity to one 1634 01:16:36,060 --> 01:16:37,199 another and encourage 1635 01:16:37,199 --> 01:16:41,479 walking and biking. Character of the area should be 1636 01:16:41,479 --> 01:16:43,920 maintained by ensuring that 1637 01:16:43,920 --> 01:16:47,130 any new development is sensitive to the surrounding built 1638 01:16:47,130 --> 01:16:48,640 and natural environment 1639 01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:54,489 in context of scale and form. And development should also 1640 01:16:54,489 --> 01:16:55,119 adequately 1641 01:16:55,119 --> 01:16:58,159 address parking needs and mitigate impact to adjacent 1642 01:16:58,159 --> 01:17:01,199 neighborhoods. So the 1643 01:17:01,199 --> 01:17:03,619 purpose of the original Freistree overlay district was to 1644 01:17:03,619 --> 01:17:04,199 maintain the 1645 01:17:04,199 --> 01:17:07,170 character of the area. The proposed amendment would allow 1646 01:17:07,170 --> 01:17:07,960 for the highest 1647 01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:10,659 density in the area and while that use is permitted the 1648 01:17:10,659 --> 01:17:11,840 original intent of the 1649 01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:14,500 overlay was to have cohesive development and maintain 1650 01:17:14,500 --> 01:17:17,560 character of the area. 1651 01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:22,180 With a consideration for the parking requirement the 1652 01:17:22,180 --> 01:17:23,720 deficit between the 1653 01:17:23,720 --> 01:17:26,909 required parking per the overlay district as it's currently 1654 01:17:26,909 --> 01:17:27,600 written and 1655 01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:31,539 then the proposed amendment to the overlay district there's 1656 01:17:31,539 --> 01:17:32,359 a deficit of 1657 01:17:32,359 --> 01:17:36,890 110 spaces. Reductions in the requirement to parking on a 1658 01:17:36,890 --> 01:17:38,399 site-by-site basis is 1659 01:17:38,399 --> 01:17:41,449 not a comprehensive approach to analyzing the impact of 1660 01:17:41,449 --> 01:17:42,960 parking reductions on the 1661 01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:49,199 greater Freistree area. These are two considerations from 1662 01:17:49,199 --> 01:17:50,079 other departments on 1663 01:17:50,079 --> 01:17:54,319 the project. The scoping for the traffic impact analysis 1664 01:17:54,319 --> 01:17:55,239 has been initiated 1665 01:17:55,239 --> 01:17:58,470 however a formal traffic impact analysis has not been 1666 01:17:58,470 --> 01:18:01,119 submitted for review. Also 1667 01:18:01,119 --> 01:18:04,090 from the fire department the applicant has not been able to 1668 01:18:04,090 --> 01:18:05,000 verify on the site 1669 01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:09,250 plans provided in your backup the aerial apparatus access 1670 01:18:09,250 --> 01:18:11,880 to the building. 1671 01:18:13,159 --> 01:18:15,819 So while the development does increase the stock of student 1672 01:18:15,819 --> 01:18:17,119 housing which is an 1673 01:18:17,119 --> 01:18:20,399 important goal in the debt and plan 2030 the proposed 1674 01:18:20,399 --> 01:18:21,880 amendment and associated 1675 01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:24,539 development conditions are not consistent with the debt and 1676 01:18:24,539 --> 01:18:25,439 plan 2030 in 1677 01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:28,539 some other ways. First it doesn't adequately address the 1678 01:18:28,539 --> 01:18:29,479 parking needs of 1679 01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:33,239 the project and it does not mitigate spillover into the 1680 01:18:33,239 --> 01:18:36,590 surrounding neighborhood. The potential impact on the 1681 01:18:36,590 --> 01:18:38,399 surrounding infrastructure 1682 01:18:38,399 --> 01:18:43,789 particularly to the sewer and inconsistency in urban form 1683 01:18:43,789 --> 01:18:44,720 and scale. 1684 01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:47,909 Staff has concerns about these continuous amendments to the 1685 01:18:47,909 --> 01:18:48,520 Freistree 1686 01:18:48,520 --> 01:18:51,430 overlay district standards without fully understanding the 1687 01:18:51,430 --> 01:18:52,439 impact of these higher 1688 01:18:52,439 --> 01:18:55,510 density and intensity projects on infrastructure the 1689 01:18:55,510 --> 01:18:56,680 transportation and 1690 01:18:56,680 --> 01:19:01,649 parking network and neighborhood compatibility. And just as 1691 01:19:01,649 --> 01:19:02,520 an aside note 1692 01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:06,659 we know the planning department understands that these are 1693 01:19:06,659 --> 01:19:07,520 hurdles for 1694 01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:12,079 the development community and a Freistree small area plan 1695 01:19:12,079 --> 01:19:13,359 the work draft 1696 01:19:13,359 --> 01:19:16,800 plan was presented to City Council yesterday during work 1697 01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:18,199 session. Small area 1698 01:19:18,199 --> 01:19:21,050 plans allow for the planning department to go back with 1699 01:19:21,050 --> 01:19:22,279 other departments and 1700 01:19:22,279 --> 01:19:26,069 look at this area at a more macro level to understand what 1701 01:19:26,069 --> 01:19:27,439 the community vision 1702 01:19:27,439 --> 01:19:32,409 is and also what the debt and plan 2030s vision is. Two 1703 01:19:32,409 --> 01:19:34,279 neighborhood meetings were 1704 01:19:34,279 --> 01:19:38,539 held the neighborhood expressed a level of comfort with sub 1705 01:19:38,539 --> 01:19:39,840 area A of the Freistree 1706 01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:42,569 overlay district is written but concerns were raised by 1707 01:19:42,569 --> 01:19:44,199 attendance of the meetings 1708 01:19:44,199 --> 01:19:47,840 those included increased traffic along Oak and Hickory 1709 01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:49,359 increased parking in 1710 01:19:49,359 --> 01:19:52,239 Semigul family neighborhoods adjacent to the project and 1711 01:19:52,239 --> 01:19:53,399 lack of a shade study 1712 01:19:53,399 --> 01:20:00,960 for height of the building. Per section 3573 of the Denton 1713 01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:01,600 development code 1714 01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:04,640 special purpose overlay districts are established to 1715 01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:05,800 protect and enhance 1716 01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:09,939 specific lands which just by the virtue of their type and 1717 01:20:09,939 --> 01:20:10,920 location have 1718 01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,270 characteristics which are distinct from lands and 1719 01:20:13,270 --> 01:20:14,560 structures outside of such 1720 01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:18,699 special districts. Changes to the overlay district must 1721 01:20:18,699 --> 01:20:20,479 enhance or conform to the 1722 01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:25,010 purpose of the overlay districts goals and objectives and 1723 01:20:25,010 --> 01:20:26,199 the current the 1724 01:20:26,199 --> 01:20:32,020 proposed amendments as submitted are a continuous amendment 1725 01:20:32,020 --> 01:20:33,079 to the Freistree 1726 01:20:33,079 --> 01:20:36,460 overlay district and they are a comprehensive analysis of 1727 01:20:36,460 --> 01:20:37,279 their impact 1728 01:20:37,279 --> 01:20:42,960 to the adjacent neighborhoods. Public notifications were 1729 01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:44,279 sent out on January 1730 01:20:44,279 --> 01:20:50,640 13th 2016 27 were sent within 200 feet 71 within 500 feet 1731 01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:52,880 and we have not had 1732 01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:59,789 any 200 foot response returned. Staff recommends denial of 1733 01:20:59,789 --> 01:21:02,039 Z 1529 based on the 1734 01:21:02,039 --> 01:21:06,000 considerations presented as requested the amendment further 1735 01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:06,960 compromises the 1736 01:21:06,960 --> 01:21:11,260 Freistree overlay district standards and I will stand for 1737 01:21:11,260 --> 01:21:12,439 any questions. 1738 01:21:12,439 --> 01:21:18,079 Commissioner Taylor. Thank you chair. I was just trying to 1739 01:21:18,079 --> 01:21:18,760 understand some 1740 01:21:18,760 --> 01:21:25,390 some procedural options here. If if there were a project to 1741 01:21:25,390 --> 01:21:27,520 come forward in an 1742 01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:32,210 overlay district and they wanted a variance on just just on 1743 01:21:32,210 --> 01:21:33,039 number of 1744 01:21:33,039 --> 01:21:36,840 parking lots or parking spaces in their parking lot do 1745 01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:38,000 would they have to amend 1746 01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:42,579 the overlay or could they come in for like a variance or an 1747 01:21:42,579 --> 01:21:43,840 ADP is there is 1748 01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:48,119 there any other process that they can use other than am 1749 01:21:48,119 --> 01:21:50,680 ending the overlay? Less 1750 01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:56,899 spots would be through the variance procedure I believe. So 1751 01:21:56,899 --> 01:21:58,279 if this just to 1752 01:21:58,279 --> 01:22:01,960 clarify if the overlay district standards specify a parking 1753 01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:02,720 ratio and 1754 01:22:02,720 --> 01:22:07,470 there is a the African is if it says you must have a 1755 01:22:07,470 --> 01:22:10,039 minimum of X spaces or you 1756 01:22:10,039 --> 01:22:13,359 must have no more than so many spaces where that ratio is 1757 01:22:13,359 --> 01:22:14,640 specified and that 1758 01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:16,939 ratio is being changed then it would warrant an amendment 1759 01:22:16,939 --> 01:22:17,600 to the overlay 1760 01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:21,180 district because that specification is in the overlay 1761 01:22:21,180 --> 01:22:22,720 district. And there's no so 1762 01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:25,220 a variance is not an option and ADP is not an option there 1763 01:22:25,220 --> 01:22:26,119 's no other option 1764 01:22:26,119 --> 01:22:30,350 except for to amend the overlay. Okay thank you. 1765 01:22:30,350 --> 01:22:32,119 Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you 1766 01:22:32,119 --> 01:22:34,880 chair. I'm Sophie in one of your slides you said that there 1767 01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:35,359 was going to be a 1768 01:22:35,359 --> 01:22:39,619 deficit of about 110 parking spaces how many dwelling units 1769 01:22:39,619 --> 01:22:42,039 are proposed in this? 1770 01:22:42,039 --> 01:22:57,069 I believe it comes out to total number of bedrooms was 1771 01:22:57,069 --> 01:23:00,000 sorry 1772 01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:08,939 The bed count is 308 I believe. 300 on the nose. There's 1773 01:23:08,939 --> 01:23:15,239 300 bedrooms with a potential of 300 1774 01:23:15,239 --> 01:23:20,199 residents. I mean could two or more people share a bedroom 1775 01:23:20,199 --> 01:23:21,359 in that in this 1776 01:23:21,359 --> 01:23:21,359 situation I mean. The breakout there are one two sorry 1777 01:23:21,359 --> 01:23:33,039 there are two three and 1778 01:23:33,039 --> 01:23:38,640 four bedroom units. Right so this 300 so my I guess my 1779 01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:39,199 question is how many 1780 01:23:39,199 --> 01:23:41,859 people are projected to live there is it 300 because there 1781 01:23:41,859 --> 01:23:43,560 's 300 bedrooms or is it 1782 01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:48,399 500 because someone might have a roommate in there? To my 1783 01:23:48,399 --> 01:23:49,239 knowledge they 1784 01:23:49,239 --> 01:23:53,399 are rented by the room so that would be 300 students and 1785 01:23:53,399 --> 01:23:54,119 the applicant can 1786 01:23:54,119 --> 01:23:56,539 correct me if I'm wrong. Thank you I appreciate that thank 1787 01:23:56,539 --> 01:23:58,560 you. 1788 01:24:01,399 --> 01:24:05,600 Commissioner Roselle. Thank you chair. Can staff speak to 1789 01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:06,640 this I'm not sure if 1790 01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:10,369 this question can be answered but sub area B the original 1791 01:24:10,369 --> 01:24:11,199 sub area that had 1792 01:24:11,199 --> 01:24:14,550 the one-to-one parking do we know if that was adequate 1793 01:24:14,550 --> 01:24:15,920 parking is there a lot 1794 01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:19,680 completely full or do they have extra spaces in the other 1795 01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:20,920 parking is a one-for-one 1796 01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:29,100 a good standard to have do we know? As it's written in sub 1797 01:24:29,100 --> 01:24:30,520 area B the 1798 01:24:30,520 --> 01:24:40,869 requirement is one-for-one. As for the current parking in 1799 01:24:40,869 --> 01:24:42,079 the Fry Street 1800 01:24:42,079 --> 01:24:44,779 overlay district during the neighborhood meetings there was 1801 01:24:44,779 --> 01:24:49,000 very vocal there is a 1802 01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:53,619 large portion of that community that felt like parking wasn 1803 01:24:53,619 --> 01:24:54,880 't addressed in 1804 01:24:54,880 --> 01:24:59,529 that one-to-one ratio. I've also heard that it's not 1805 01:24:59,529 --> 01:25:02,319 completely parked all the 1806 01:25:02,319 --> 01:25:08,729 time so there's some conflicting information there's a lot 1807 01:25:08,729 --> 01:25:09,399 of literature 1808 01:25:09,399 --> 01:25:16,090 that says the parking minimums induce extra parking however 1809 01:25:16,090 --> 01:25:17,439 we have to look at 1810 01:25:17,439 --> 01:25:20,880 this area and realize that if we allow site-by-site 1811 01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:23,119 reductions of parking we're 1812 01:25:23,119 --> 01:25:26,180 not able to take it from a macro level and understand what 1813 01:25:26,180 --> 01:25:27,159 the true parking 1814 01:25:27,159 --> 01:25:31,760 problems are in that district and until we do that it's 1815 01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:34,359 hard to reconcile those 1816 01:25:34,359 --> 01:25:38,239 into an amendment to the overlay district. So from the 1817 01:25:38,239 --> 01:25:38,720 feedback you've 1818 01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:42,159 been provided although all the parking spots might not be 1819 01:25:42,159 --> 01:25:43,319 used there is some 1820 01:25:43,319 --> 01:25:48,279 spillage happening on the side streets? Okay thank you. 1821 01:25:48,279 --> 01:25:49,680 Commissioner Beck. Thank 1822 01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:52,960 you chair. Excuse me just for some clarification now these 1823 01:25:52,960 --> 01:25:54,239 aren't or are 1824 01:25:54,239 --> 01:25:58,640 they true one-bedroom two-bedroom apartments are they what 1825 01:25:58,640 --> 01:25:59,720 I guess we call 1826 01:25:59,720 --> 01:26:03,670 shared apartments where there's maybe one two or three 1827 01:26:03,670 --> 01:26:05,279 bedrooms but they share 1828 01:26:05,279 --> 01:26:10,359 a common area and a kitchen? Based on the first floor site 1829 01:26:10,359 --> 01:26:11,960 plan that the building 1830 01:26:11,960 --> 01:26:15,859 layout that I have yes that's the that the there are two 1831 01:26:15,859 --> 01:26:17,319 three and four bedroom 1832 01:26:17,319 --> 01:26:20,750 units and they share common space the applicant is here and 1833 01:26:20,750 --> 01:26:21,680 can speak more to 1834 01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:27,319 that product. Okay thank you. Commissioner Dadowitz. 1835 01:26:27,319 --> 01:26:29,720 Further clarification 1836 01:26:29,720 --> 01:26:33,180 please I understand there's gonna be retail businesses on 1837 01:26:33,180 --> 01:26:34,520 the bottom floor 1838 01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:39,220 yes sir and I suspect there's gonna be need for parking for 1839 01:26:39,220 --> 01:26:40,159 those people that's 1840 01:26:40,159 --> 01:26:43,390 gonna visit those retail establishments yes sir how is that 1841 01:26:43,390 --> 01:26:45,039 provided for? 1842 01:26:45,039 --> 01:26:50,409 Currently those parking numbers are in the provided parking 1843 01:26:50,409 --> 01:26:52,600 there's 220 spaces 1844 01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:58,029 provided so based on their ratio they've provided for both 1845 01:26:58,029 --> 01:26:58,920 the multi-family 1846 01:26:58,920 --> 01:27:02,420 component and for the retail component and yet you still 1847 01:27:02,420 --> 01:27:04,640 say they're 120 plus 1848 01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:08,460 short? Yes they are. Now you mentioned something about 1849 01:27:08,460 --> 01:27:09,439 remote parking in 1850 01:27:09,439 --> 01:27:13,579 off-street parking to serve that a building is that 1851 01:27:13,579 --> 01:27:15,399 considered in part of 1852 01:27:15,399 --> 01:27:20,359 that count also? Sure in the Fry Street Overlay District 1853 01:27:20,359 --> 01:27:22,000 when you come in for a 1854 01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:26,119 see-over property if you don't have the parking maybe on- 1855 01:27:26,119 --> 01:27:27,239 site as we know a lot 1856 01:27:27,239 --> 01:27:30,470 of those don't you can provide a shared parking agreement 1857 01:27:30,470 --> 01:27:31,760 that's recorded 1858 01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:34,579 through the county and that can be within a thousand feet 1859 01:27:34,579 --> 01:27:35,479 of that building 1860 01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:40,020 I believe in the DDC and other areas of the city that's 1861 01:27:40,020 --> 01:27:43,079 limited to 300 feet. Thank 1862 01:27:43,079 --> 01:27:50,670 you. So if I have one question on our code our code states 1863 01:27:50,670 --> 01:27:52,140 that one bedroom is 1864 01:27:52,140 --> 01:27:55,489 counts for a half a unit correct? Yes sir. So two bedrooms 1865 01:27:55,489 --> 01:27:57,000 and makes one unit. Yes 1866 01:27:57,000 --> 01:28:06,590 sir. Okay thank you. Commissioner Tyler. Thank you chair so 1867 01:28:06,590 --> 01:28:09,079 one more question I 1868 01:28:09,079 --> 01:28:12,069 couldn't I couldn't locate it in the overlay is there a 1869 01:28:12,069 --> 01:28:13,140 requirement in the 1870 01:28:13,140 --> 01:28:18,119 overlay district for a mixed-use nature on these larger 1871 01:28:18,119 --> 01:28:19,079 projects does it 1872 01:28:19,079 --> 01:28:25,279 specify a ratio of residential to retail square footage? No 1873 01:28:25,279 --> 01:28:25,720 there's no 1874 01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:31,760 requirement for that ratio no. Thank you. 1875 01:28:32,840 --> 01:28:36,560 Commissioner Bruegel. Sorry thank you circling back to 1876 01:28:36,560 --> 01:28:38,199 piggybacking off of you 1877 01:28:38,199 --> 01:28:41,189 so two bedrooms would be considered one unit so how many 1878 01:28:41,189 --> 01:28:42,399 parking spaces are 1879 01:28:42,399 --> 01:28:45,779 provided there's a hundred and ten parking space deficit. 1880 01:28:45,779 --> 01:28:47,079 There if they 1881 01:28:47,079 --> 01:28:51,609 followed sub area B or sorry sub area A requirements they 1882 01:28:51,609 --> 01:28:52,399 would be required to 1883 01:28:52,399 --> 01:28:58,520 have 330 parking spaces what they've provided is 220 1884 01:28:58,520 --> 01:28:59,920 parking spaces which 1885 01:28:59,920 --> 01:29:06,250 complies with their proposed amendment. I see thank you. 1886 01:29:06,250 --> 01:29:08,199 Any other questions for 1887 01:29:08,199 --> 01:29:17,729 staff? Thank you Sophie. This is a public hearing and we've 1888 01:29:17,729 --> 01:29:18,920 got a number of cards 1889 01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:21,960 I'm going to start we have one group card and then we'll 1890 01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:23,239 move to individuals 1891 01:29:23,239 --> 01:29:31,640 the group card I have is from looks like Rob Baldwin 1892 01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:36,239 applicant please 1893 01:29:42,840 --> 01:29:47,390 this is Rodney I'm Rob. I'm technically the applicant but 1894 01:29:47,390 --> 01:29:49,439 Rodney's the developer so if it's okay I'd like for him to 1895 01:29:49,439 --> 01:29:51,960 go first and then 1896 01:29:52,960 --> 01:29:59,220 Ten minutes. Good evening Mr. Chair good evening commission 1897 01:29:59,220 --> 01:30:01,159 ers my name is Rodney King this is the 1898 01:30:01,159 --> 01:30:04,770 conceptual housing plan for the fresh street project that 1899 01:30:04,770 --> 01:30:05,680 we want to do. I'm 1900 01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:08,569 vice president of real estate development with EDR before 1901 01:30:08,569 --> 01:30:10,159 we go into the project I 1902 01:30:10,159 --> 01:30:13,510 want to give you guys just an overview of what EDR is and 1903 01:30:13,510 --> 01:30:15,119 what EDR does. We're 1904 01:30:15,119 --> 01:30:17,539 based in Memphis Tennessee where the nation's second 1905 01:30:17,539 --> 01:30:18,720 largest student housing 1906 01:30:18,720 --> 01:30:22,010 REIT with 52 years old and this is an important important 1907 01:30:22,010 --> 01:30:23,119 point that I want to 1908 01:30:23,119 --> 01:30:26,859 make we own and manage all of our projects we don't sub out 1909 01:30:26,859 --> 01:30:27,479 our management 1910 01:30:27,479 --> 01:30:30,350 group to anybody else so we wouldn't build a project that 1911 01:30:30,350 --> 01:30:31,039 would not be 1912 01:30:31,039 --> 01:30:34,390 financially feasible. We have six other properties here in 1913 01:30:34,390 --> 01:30:36,119 Texas. This just shows 1914 01:30:36,119 --> 01:30:39,090 you a brief map of our Texas properties. We have one 1915 01:30:39,090 --> 01:30:40,680 property that is very close 1916 01:30:40,680 --> 01:30:44,239 to here and that serves Texas Christian University over in 1917 01:30:44,239 --> 01:30:45,159 Fort Worth so I 1918 01:30:45,159 --> 01:30:47,180 encourage all the commissioners and members of the public 1919 01:30:47,180 --> 01:30:47,960 to actually go see 1920 01:30:47,960 --> 01:30:51,250 their property you can see the quality of development that 1921 01:30:51,250 --> 01:30:53,439 we develop. Here are just a 1922 01:30:53,439 --> 01:30:56,100 few projects that we have in the area this Arizona State 1923 01:30:56,100 --> 01:30:57,199 University that's a 1924 01:30:57,199 --> 01:31:04,699 picture of the Texas TCU property. Minnesota and Texas Tech 1925 01:31:04,699 --> 01:31:06,520 University of 1926 01:31:06,520 --> 01:31:10,470 Connecticut and UT Austin. One important point on all those 1927 01:31:10,470 --> 01:31:11,399 properties that I 1928 01:31:11,399 --> 01:31:15,430 just showed you none of those properties are parked one-to- 1929 01:31:15,430 --> 01:31:16,800 one. Good sound 1930 01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:21,489 good sound planning practices does not encourage one-to-one 1931 01:31:21,489 --> 01:31:22,640 parking in any 1932 01:31:22,640 --> 01:31:28,350 urban intense development. This development has been we've 1933 01:31:28,350 --> 01:31:29,039 been in the 1934 01:31:29,039 --> 01:31:31,149 community for quite a while we've started thinking about 1935 01:31:31,149 --> 01:31:31,920 this development 1936 01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:35,000 about this time last year and we started making our public 1937 01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:36,359 outreach. We've had 1938 01:31:36,359 --> 01:31:40,100 several public meetings informal informal with several 1939 01:31:40,100 --> 01:31:41,079 members of the 1940 01:31:41,079 --> 01:31:45,720 community starting back till early September. We met with 1941 01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:46,699 the historic the 1942 01:31:46,699 --> 01:31:48,510 leaders of the historic neighborhoods we met with the 1943 01:31:48,510 --> 01:31:49,680 University of North Texas 1944 01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:53,119 we've had two public meetings and an additional follow-up 1945 01:31:53,119 --> 01:31:54,159 meeting with the 1946 01:31:54,159 --> 01:31:57,220 University of North Texas and one important point with the 1947 01:31:57,220 --> 01:31:58,039 public meetings 1948 01:31:58,039 --> 01:32:01,689 we initially proposed a plan that had 374 beds and there 1949 01:32:01,689 --> 01:32:03,600 was about 60% parked. 1950 01:32:03,600 --> 01:32:06,279 During that public meeting we heard some opposition so we 1951 01:32:06,279 --> 01:32:07,079 went back to the 1952 01:32:07,079 --> 01:32:10,489 drawing table reduce the bed count and increase the parking 1953 01:32:10,489 --> 01:32:11,239 ratio to where we 1954 01:32:11,239 --> 01:32:15,699 are today. I'm gonna let Rob talk a little bit about the D 1955 01:32:15,699 --> 01:32:17,560 IN plan 2030 and how 1956 01:32:17,560 --> 01:32:22,770 this project supports that. Thank you very much my name is 1957 01:32:22,770 --> 01:32:23,359 Rob Baldwin 1958 01:32:23,359 --> 01:32:27,359 office at 3904 Elm Street Suite B in Dallas and I'm an 1959 01:32:27,359 --> 01:32:28,159 urban planner and a 1960 01:32:28,159 --> 01:32:31,420 planning consultant and I'm helping EDR with this. The DIN 1961 01:32:31,420 --> 01:32:35,359 plan 2030 it's big 1962 01:32:35,359 --> 01:32:38,850 there's a lot that it says but there's a couple of things 1963 01:32:38,850 --> 01:32:40,159 that I think is 1964 01:32:40,159 --> 01:32:42,960 important here. One it promotes mixed-use development 1965 01:32:42,960 --> 01:32:44,079 especially mixed-use 1966 01:32:44,079 --> 01:32:49,520 development next to the University and it states that the 1967 01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:49,920 mixed-use 1968 01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:52,039 development you should take a look at the parking 1969 01:32:52,039 --> 01:32:53,140 requirements make sure 1970 01:32:53,140 --> 01:32:56,600 they're adequate and there's actually a provision in the 1971 01:32:56,600 --> 01:32:58,119 urban design standards 1972 01:32:58,119 --> 01:33:00,500 that says if you're a mixed-use project with the University 1973 01:33:00,500 --> 01:33:01,039 you shouldn't even 1974 01:33:01,039 --> 01:33:03,890 have to provide off-street parking. I think that's a little 1975 01:33:03,890 --> 01:33:04,760 extreme and I don't 1976 01:33:04,760 --> 01:33:07,729 think that that we're asking for that but I think it does 1977 01:33:07,729 --> 01:33:09,520 recognize that maybe 1978 01:33:09,520 --> 01:33:13,760 since we're proximity to a large generator of where people 1979 01:33:13,760 --> 01:33:14,800 are going and 1980 01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:16,909 we have students right across the street from where they're 1981 01:33:16,909 --> 01:33:17,720 going to be going 1982 01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:21,760 maybe a relaxation the parking standards make sense. In 1983 01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:23,960 fact the city's land 1984 01:33:23,960 --> 01:33:27,369 development code says that parking should be looked at an 1985 01:33:27,369 --> 01:33:28,520 individual basis 1986 01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:32,680 if it doesn't there it's warranted to take a look at 1987 01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:35,520 specific projects that 1988 01:33:35,520 --> 01:33:39,720 may the one-to-one parking may not make sense and the great 1989 01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:40,720 way to bring it 1990 01:33:40,720 --> 01:33:43,380 forward is this to the planning Commission and zoning 1991 01:33:43,380 --> 01:33:44,279 Commission to take 1992 01:33:44,279 --> 01:33:53,119 a look at it. So the 2030 plan says that this type of this 1993 01:33:53,119 --> 01:33:54,119 area should serve as a 1994 01:33:54,119 --> 01:33:57,470 buffer between the University and the residential to the 1995 01:33:57,470 --> 01:33:58,680 north and I think this 1996 01:33:58,680 --> 01:34:02,279 does it. This project is very similar to the Frye Street 1997 01:34:02,279 --> 01:34:03,520 Center project in fact 1998 01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:06,560 it's the same architect the difference is it's smaller it's 1999 01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:08,399 not as it's not as 2000 01:34:08,399 --> 01:34:12,680 doesn't take up a full block it is actually shorter by 2001 01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:14,239 three feet or two 2002 01:34:14,239 --> 01:34:17,319 feet then than that the parking garage and that existing 2003 01:34:17,319 --> 01:34:18,279 project can go up to 2004 01:34:18,279 --> 01:34:21,869 60 feet where the buildings can go to 55 feet we're 2005 01:34:21,869 --> 01:34:23,760 proposing 58 feet the 2006 01:34:23,760 --> 01:34:27,960 difference is all of our parking is internal. 2007 01:34:29,119 --> 01:34:35,479 This is consistent with the plans recommendation that the 2008 01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:35,920 goal 2009 01:34:35,920 --> 01:34:39,239 provided multi-mode transportation near the University this 2010 01:34:39,239 --> 01:34:40,279 is interesting that 2011 01:34:40,279 --> 01:34:44,399 we have zip car if I don't know familiar with zip car where 2012 01:34:44,399 --> 01:34:45,720 cars are on site so 2013 01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:47,609 if someone needs a car they can rent it for the day they 2014 01:34:47,609 --> 01:34:48,359 can rent it for the 2015 01:34:48,359 --> 01:34:53,800 hour. EDR is a partner with uber when people come in they 2016 01:34:53,800 --> 01:34:55,119 get to rent there 2017 01:34:55,119 --> 01:35:01,720 they get uber coupons we're right on transit line it's they 2018 01:35:01,720 --> 01:35:03,119 have a bicycle 2019 01:35:03,119 --> 01:35:06,810 sharing program and they have a large bicycle storage area 2020 01:35:06,810 --> 01:35:07,840 in the garage so 2021 01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:10,539 this is truly a multi-modal project right across from the 2022 01:35:10,539 --> 01:35:11,479 University which 2023 01:35:11,479 --> 01:35:15,359 seems from a plan standpoint in my mind to make sense and 2024 01:35:15,359 --> 01:35:16,600 this project also 2025 01:35:16,600 --> 01:35:20,840 furthers the urban design guidelines there the urban design 2026 01:35:20,840 --> 01:35:21,520 guidance want to 2027 01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:25,050 have a good presence along the street and this doesn't it's 2028 01:35:25,050 --> 01:35:26,159 going to look very 2029 01:35:26,159 --> 01:35:30,300 similar to the project down the street where we have a nice 2030 01:35:30,300 --> 01:35:31,680 street wall a lot 2031 01:35:31,680 --> 01:35:35,159 of landscaping a lot of pedestrian amenities so I think we 2032 01:35:35,159 --> 01:35:36,000 are consistent 2033 01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:38,659 with the plan again it's a big plan there's a lot of places 2034 01:35:38,659 --> 01:35:38,920 where you can 2035 01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:42,520 pick and choose I think the overall thrust is let's use 2036 01:35:42,520 --> 01:35:43,359 some planning and 2037 01:35:43,359 --> 01:35:47,029 some common sense when you have a use a mixed use next to 2038 01:35:47,029 --> 01:35:48,520 the University and I 2039 01:35:48,520 --> 01:35:50,569 think that we're doing that and I'm gonna turn it back over 2040 01:35:50,569 --> 01:35:51,159 to Rodney and 2041 01:35:51,159 --> 01:35:53,039 then I'll be here to answer any questions you may have 2042 01:35:53,039 --> 01:35:53,640 after Rodney's 2043 01:35:53,640 --> 01:35:58,229 done I see the timer ticking on me may I ask for additional 2044 01:35:58,229 --> 01:35:59,000 time because we want 2045 01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:02,949 to address clarification of staff each of you get 10 2046 01:36:02,949 --> 01:36:04,199 minutes for a total of 20 2047 01:36:04,199 --> 01:36:10,800 so okay no problem just to clarify some of the project 2048 01:36:10,800 --> 01:36:13,039 information is 300 bits 2049 01:36:13,039 --> 01:36:19,000 83 units 222 parking spaces that equates to 74 percent part 2050 01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:19,880 and as you know this 2051 01:36:19,880 --> 01:36:24,279 project is adjacent to the University of North Texas on a 2052 01:36:24,279 --> 01:36:26,039 more macro level to 2053 01:36:26,039 --> 01:36:28,699 compare this project to the previously approved projects at 2054 01:36:28,699 --> 01:36:29,319 this council and 2055 01:36:29,319 --> 01:36:32,380 this commission this and the council has passed this is 2056 01:36:32,380 --> 01:36:33,720 very similar to both of 2057 01:36:33,720 --> 01:36:36,569 those projects with one major difference between the youth 2058 01:36:36,569 --> 01:36:37,279 center at fresh 2059 01:36:37,279 --> 01:36:40,720 dress fresh street project that project is a hundred 2060 01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:42,279 percent part and based on 2061 01:36:42,279 --> 01:36:44,960 our market study from the management company who operates 2062 01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:46,039 that property they 2063 01:36:46,039 --> 01:36:49,489 only utilize about 70 to 75 percent of their parking they 2064 01:36:49,489 --> 01:36:50,800 can't even charge for 2065 01:36:50,800 --> 01:36:55,989 parking because they don't have the demand for it here's a 2066 01:36:55,989 --> 01:36:57,279 more architectural 2067 01:36:57,279 --> 01:37:00,100 comparison of that property we're about three feet higher 2068 01:37:00,100 --> 01:37:01,159 than the building but 2069 01:37:01,159 --> 01:37:06,500 two feet shorter than the garage you guys have hard copies 2070 01:37:06,500 --> 01:37:07,720 of this packet in 2071 01:37:07,720 --> 01:37:11,520 your it your desk this property is most similar to the 2072 01:37:11,520 --> 01:37:12,279 property that we're 2073 01:37:12,279 --> 01:37:16,229 requesting this property is actually about 70 78 percent 2074 01:37:16,229 --> 01:37:19,000 part 427 days 348 2075 01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:23,600 parking spaces and 275 of those spaces are occupied which 2076 01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:25,359 equates to 56 to 64 2077 01:37:25,359 --> 01:37:28,430 percent utilization utilization rate and this is from the 2078 01:37:28,430 --> 01:37:29,319 directly from the 2079 01:37:29,319 --> 01:37:32,420 management company so we don't necessarily believe that the 2080 01:37:32,420 --> 01:37:33,520 demand for 2081 01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:40,720 100 percent parking is there I'm going to have Adam and Don 2082 01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:41,199 talk about the 2083 01:37:41,199 --> 01:37:45,020 preliminary results of the traffic study you can take that 2084 01:37:45,020 --> 01:37:45,640 off of my time 2085 01:37:47,920 --> 01:37:49,810 good evening my name is Don says name the director of 2086 01:37:49,810 --> 01:37:51,600 traffic engineering 2087 01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:54,359 services with Dunaway Associates and just to give you a 2088 01:37:54,359 --> 01:37:55,079 little bit of 2089 01:37:55,079 --> 01:37:57,579 background I'm gonna actually go to the next slide before I 2090 01:37:57,579 --> 01:37:59,640 go to this one we 2091 01:37:59,640 --> 01:38:02,619 basically did a traffic study our preliminary the traffic 2092 01:38:02,619 --> 01:38:03,220 study is in 2093 01:38:03,220 --> 01:38:06,399 progress and the reason why it's in progress there's two 2094 01:38:06,399 --> 01:38:07,720 fold we we had to 2095 01:38:07,720 --> 01:38:10,689 wait for the students to get back in campus in order to 2096 01:38:10,689 --> 01:38:11,560 collect some 2097 01:38:11,560 --> 01:38:15,020 additional traffic count data the bulk of the data was 2098 01:38:15,020 --> 01:38:16,720 collected last semester 2099 01:38:16,720 --> 01:38:20,210 just before finals week and there were there are a couple 2100 01:38:20,210 --> 01:38:21,199 more intersections 2101 01:38:21,199 --> 01:38:23,279 that that they wanted counted so we had to wait for the 2102 01:38:23,279 --> 01:38:24,239 students get back in 2103 01:38:24,239 --> 01:38:30,630 session second of all we we asked for city approval of our 2104 01:38:30,630 --> 01:38:31,680 proposed scope and 2105 01:38:31,680 --> 01:38:35,600 we got those comments back late Friday afternoon so it's it 2106 01:38:35,600 --> 01:38:36,840 's work in progress 2107 01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:41,180 as far as the traffic study goes just to summarize some of 2108 01:38:41,180 --> 01:38:43,239 the findings here the 2109 01:38:43,239 --> 01:38:46,560 vehicular trips during the peak hours the a.m. and p.m. as 2110 01:38:46,560 --> 01:38:48,800 you can see in the 2111 01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:51,880 morning we're expecting 30 additional vehicles and in the 2112 01:38:51,880 --> 01:38:52,640 evening we're 2113 01:38:52,640 --> 01:38:56,720 expecting 41 additional vehicles bulk of the traffic will 2114 01:38:56,720 --> 01:38:58,359 be pedestrian trips in 2115 01:38:58,359 --> 01:39:03,119 the a.m. we anticipate 67 pedestrians and in the p.m. 94 2116 01:39:03,119 --> 01:39:04,979 pedestrians to 2117 01:39:04,979 --> 01:39:08,939 summarize the intersection operations all the intersections 2118 01:39:08,939 --> 01:39:09,960 now that all the 2119 01:39:09,960 --> 01:39:13,270 intersections were from Welch along Oak and Hickory all the 2120 01:39:13,270 --> 01:39:14,239 way down to Bonnie 2121 01:39:14,239 --> 01:39:17,739 Bray and then we also looked at the Bonnie Bray and 2122 01:39:17,739 --> 01:39:19,279 scripture intersection 2123 01:39:19,279 --> 01:39:22,270 all the intersections are expected to operate in level 2124 01:39:22,270 --> 01:39:23,439 service here better 2125 01:39:23,439 --> 01:39:27,390 except for Oak and Welch which is currently un-signalized 2126 01:39:27,390 --> 01:39:28,000 and it's 2127 01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:31,600 currently operating at level service D the problem movement 2128 01:39:31,600 --> 01:39:32,560 there is the north 2129 01:39:32,560 --> 01:39:36,590 bound left turn with site traffic it's going to decrease to 2130 01:39:36,590 --> 01:39:38,920 level service E and 2131 01:39:38,920 --> 01:39:41,890 when I talk about level service it's synonymous with grades 2132 01:39:41,890 --> 01:39:42,680 in school they go 2133 01:39:42,680 --> 01:39:48,359 from a to F a being good F being bad and then Bonnie Bray 2134 01:39:48,359 --> 01:39:49,359 and scripture is 2135 01:39:49,359 --> 01:39:52,100 currently operating at level service D and from my 2136 01:39:52,100 --> 01:39:53,680 understanding it's soon to 2137 01:39:53,680 --> 01:39:56,739 be signalized and once it's signalized it will improve the 2138 01:39:56,739 --> 01:39:59,159 level service A so 2139 01:39:59,159 --> 01:40:02,880 getting back to the pedestrians this here is what I'm 2140 01:40:02,880 --> 01:40:04,279 calling potential 2141 01:40:04,279 --> 01:40:08,090 pedestrian paths the blue dots within the red area are the 2142 01:40:08,090 --> 01:40:09,420 residential access 2143 01:40:09,420 --> 01:40:12,770 points these could be elevators I think the one in within 2144 01:40:12,770 --> 01:40:13,600 the garage is an 2145 01:40:13,600 --> 01:40:17,039 elevator and then the two on the outer outer boundaries are 2146 01:40:17,039 --> 01:40:18,840 stairwells the green 2147 01:40:18,840 --> 01:40:24,430 dot is the retail front door so looking at potential paths 2148 01:40:24,430 --> 01:40:24,880 for the 2149 01:40:24,880 --> 01:40:28,159 pedestrians the different lines that are indicate potential 2150 01:40:28,159 --> 01:40:29,960 pedestrian paths now 2151 01:40:29,960 --> 01:40:32,619 ideally we'd like all the pedestrians to cross at the 2152 01:40:32,619 --> 01:40:34,039 signalized intersections 2153 01:40:34,039 --> 01:40:40,000 but will that happen so one of the things we might consider 2154 01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:40,760 is how do how 2155 01:40:40,760 --> 01:40:44,479 do we address that pedestrian movement it could be a mid- 2156 01:40:44,479 --> 01:40:46,560 block crossing it 2157 01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:49,819 could be some additional enhancements at the the the 2158 01:40:49,819 --> 01:40:51,159 intersection to the 2159 01:40:51,159 --> 01:40:55,310 southwest there having to be so in summary I think the 2160 01:40:55,310 --> 01:40:56,880 there's not going to 2161 01:40:56,880 --> 01:41:01,659 be a vehicular issue with this with this project but 2162 01:41:01,659 --> 01:41:03,159 pedestrians is definitely 2163 01:41:03,159 --> 01:41:06,640 something that needs to be addressed I'll turn back over to 2164 01:41:06,640 --> 01:41:09,199 Rodney thank you I 2165 01:41:09,199 --> 01:41:12,909 think Rob touched on this area earlier just some of the 2166 01:41:12,909 --> 01:41:14,000 amenities in this 2167 01:41:14,000 --> 01:41:16,859 project that will actually reduce vehicular traffic is zip 2168 01:41:16,859 --> 01:41:17,600 car we have a 2169 01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:20,640 service called gotcha bike where it's a community bike 2170 01:41:20,640 --> 01:41:22,079 program any resident can 2171 01:41:22,079 --> 01:41:24,470 use a bike for a specific amount of time they just have to 2172 01:41:24,470 --> 01:41:25,399 rent it out and bring 2173 01:41:25,399 --> 01:41:31,680 it back it's very similar to a city bike in Dallas and uber 2174 01:41:31,680 --> 01:41:34,399 I'm gonna let Adam or 2175 01:41:34,399 --> 01:41:37,100 Randall with Don away as an associate to talk about site 2176 01:41:37,100 --> 01:41:38,199 capacities and site 2177 01:41:38,199 --> 01:41:41,479 infrastructure how this project will have a positive or 2178 01:41:41,479 --> 01:41:42,680 negative impact on 2179 01:41:42,680 --> 01:41:50,510 that good evening commissioners Adam Reeves Don away 2180 01:41:50,510 --> 01:41:52,319 associates 170 North 2181 01:41:52,319 --> 01:41:57,939 Preston Prosper Texas Don and I work together he's the 2182 01:41:57,939 --> 01:41:59,000 expert on the traffic 2183 01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:01,050 that's why he spoke before I'll try and give an overview of 2184 01:42:01,050 --> 01:42:01,760 the remainder of 2185 01:42:01,760 --> 01:42:04,880 the engineering questions you may have in terms of site 2186 01:42:04,880 --> 01:42:06,359 capacity the utilities 2187 01:42:06,359 --> 01:42:09,359 around the site obviously Hickory and Oak have been around 2188 01:42:09,359 --> 01:42:11,039 for many many years 2189 01:42:11,039 --> 01:42:14,390 there is full infrastructure both on each one of those 2190 01:42:14,390 --> 01:42:15,640 roads that we would 2191 01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:18,470 connect into through pre-development meetings we've had 2192 01:42:18,470 --> 01:42:19,520 with the city staff 2193 01:42:19,520 --> 01:42:22,840 gone back and forth with the engineering department several 2194 01:42:22,840 --> 01:42:23,239 times 2195 01:42:23,239 --> 01:42:25,909 there are waterline connections sewer line connections on 2196 01:42:25,909 --> 01:42:27,159 both of those roadways 2197 01:42:27,159 --> 01:42:31,189 which we would propose tying into early studies that the 2198 01:42:31,189 --> 01:42:32,560 city has done has told 2199 01:42:32,560 --> 01:42:35,600 us from a sewer capacity standpoint essentially we would 2200 01:42:35,600 --> 01:42:36,399 just split our 2201 01:42:36,399 --> 01:42:39,750 building flow north and south to each one of those roads in 2202 01:42:39,750 --> 01:42:40,720 that split into 2203 01:42:40,720 --> 01:42:44,010 those two systems would provide the capacity we need for 2204 01:42:44,010 --> 01:42:45,079 the hotels the room 2205 01:42:45,079 --> 01:42:48,630 or excuse me the rooms that we're going to have on the site 2206 01:42:48,630 --> 01:42:49,960 from a waterline 2207 01:42:49,960 --> 01:42:53,310 standpoint water pressure we believe everything is fine for 2208 01:42:53,310 --> 01:42:55,079 the system if it 2209 01:42:55,079 --> 01:42:57,880 comes down to it when we get to the engineering if anything 2210 01:42:57,880 --> 01:42:58,640 just do the 2211 01:42:58,640 --> 01:43:02,159 height of the building potential look at fire pumps or 2212 01:43:02,159 --> 01:43:03,039 something in that 2213 01:43:03,039 --> 01:43:05,729 situation to make sure the pressure inside the building is 2214 01:43:05,729 --> 01:43:06,560 adequate when we 2215 01:43:06,560 --> 01:43:12,130 get that extra elevation from a storm drainage standpoint 2216 01:43:12,130 --> 01:43:13,319 that site is 2217 01:43:13,319 --> 01:43:17,550 essentially developed to a fully impervious condition at 2218 01:43:17,550 --> 01:43:18,439 today well with 2219 01:43:18,439 --> 01:43:21,100 the sidewalks along both streets the parking lot and the 2220 01:43:21,100 --> 01:43:22,119 buildings taking up 2221 01:43:22,119 --> 01:43:25,029 almost the entire lot that we're going to take so 2222 01:43:25,029 --> 01:43:26,880 essentially it would just be 2223 01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:30,829 almost a one-for-one condition however that drainage is 2224 01:43:30,829 --> 01:43:32,239 today it would be the 2225 01:43:32,239 --> 01:43:34,899 same amount of runoff that you would see in the ultimate 2226 01:43:34,899 --> 01:43:35,760 condition and just over 2227 01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:39,229 the course of not the zoning separate but during the zoning 2228 01:43:39,229 --> 01:43:41,039 is approved during 2229 01:43:41,039 --> 01:43:44,539 our construction plan process for those plans we would make 2230 01:43:44,539 --> 01:43:45,520 sure that we're 2231 01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:48,600 proving each one of those conditions out and coordinating 2232 01:43:48,600 --> 01:43:49,600 with your engineering 2233 01:43:49,600 --> 01:43:52,880 staff to make sure they're satisfied with what we're 2234 01:43:52,880 --> 01:43:54,960 proposing I'll be around 2235 01:43:54,960 --> 01:43:59,199 if there's more questions as well just to refute a comment 2236 01:43:59,199 --> 01:44:00,680 that was made in the 2237 01:44:00,680 --> 01:44:04,399 earlier work session based on our talks with the city 2238 01:44:04,399 --> 01:44:05,680 engineering staff the 2239 01:44:05,680 --> 01:44:10,210 site does have enough capacity for this project and just 2240 01:44:10,210 --> 01:44:11,560 some of the advantages 2241 01:44:11,560 --> 01:44:14,409 and requests that we're actually making from project as you 2242 01:44:14,409 --> 01:44:15,079 all know this 2243 01:44:15,079 --> 01:44:18,520 project is within steps of the University of North Texas so 2244 01:44:18,520 --> 01:44:19,079 we truly 2245 01:44:19,079 --> 01:44:21,579 believe and we have evidence throughout our 60 properties 2246 01:44:21,579 --> 01:44:22,359 that we operate across 2247 01:44:22,359 --> 01:44:25,880 the country that students will not take their cars from 2248 01:44:25,880 --> 01:44:26,880 this project to the 2249 01:44:26,880 --> 01:44:29,539 University of Texas so we believe this project will 2250 01:44:29,539 --> 01:44:30,920 actually help in the traffic 2251 01:44:30,920 --> 01:44:35,880 congestion problem that's around Fry, Hickory and Oak 2252 01:44:35,880 --> 01:44:38,039 Street and also this 2253 01:44:38,039 --> 01:44:40,779 project is walkable to entertainment venues that should 2254 01:44:40,779 --> 01:44:41,600 help on the late 2255 01:44:41,600 --> 01:44:43,829 night traffic as you hear it done say we believe the 2256 01:44:43,829 --> 01:44:45,000 majority of our traffic 2257 01:44:45,000 --> 01:44:47,859 exiting this building will be actually pedestrians they're 2258 01:44:47,859 --> 01:44:48,720 not necessarily 2259 01:44:48,720 --> 01:44:55,760 vehicle traffic and the two key requests that we're making 2260 01:44:55,760 --> 01:44:56,600 is increase 2261 01:44:56,600 --> 01:45:01,029 the height limitation from 45 feet to 58 feet which is 2262 01:45:01,029 --> 01:45:02,600 three feet higher a 2263 01:45:02,600 --> 01:45:07,130 yardstick higher than the existing building at U Center Fry 2264 01:45:07,130 --> 01:45:08,060 Street and two 2265 01:45:08,060 --> 01:45:12,609 feet smaller shorter than the garage and reduce the parking 2266 01:45:12,609 --> 01:45:14,000 ratio from one to one 2267 01:45:14,000 --> 01:45:22,680 to 0.7 to one. Rob did you just sum it up sure I think this 2268 01:45:22,680 --> 01:45:23,560 is a great example 2269 01:45:23,560 --> 01:45:27,949 of mixed-use development in an appropriate location and we 2270 01:45:27,949 --> 01:45:28,840 think that 2271 01:45:28,840 --> 01:45:32,380 with EDR's experience in doing this they wouldn't propose 2272 01:45:32,380 --> 01:45:33,720 something they couldn't 2273 01:45:33,720 --> 01:45:37,380 finance operate or maintain they do not sell their products 2274 01:45:37,380 --> 01:45:37,760 so they're not 2275 01:45:37,760 --> 01:45:39,789 they're not going to go forward to do something that's 2276 01:45:39,789 --> 01:45:40,640 going to cause them a 2277 01:45:40,640 --> 01:45:43,800 headache later. We're here to answer any questions you may 2278 01:45:43,800 --> 01:45:45,199 have and we hope you 2279 01:45:45,199 --> 01:45:49,329 can be supportive of what we're asking for thank you. 2280 01:45:49,329 --> 01:45:50,039 Commissioner Beck. 2281 01:45:50,039 --> 01:45:55,590 Thank you chair. For anyone here these are going to be 2282 01:45:55,590 --> 01:45:56,840 apartments for students 2283 01:45:56,840 --> 01:46:00,479 correct? Correct. Okay. We believe the intended uses for 2284 01:46:00,479 --> 01:46:02,319 students obviously via 2285 01:46:02,319 --> 01:46:06,600 fair housing laws we can't restrict a residency from the 2286 01:46:06,600 --> 01:46:07,560 open general 2287 01:46:07,560 --> 01:46:10,050 public okay but been across the street from the University 2288 01:46:10,050 --> 01:46:10,920 of North Texas we 2289 01:46:10,920 --> 01:46:14,359 believe 99% of our tenants will be students of North Texas. 2290 01:46:14,359 --> 01:46:15,119 Okay and I don't 2291 01:46:15,119 --> 01:46:18,270 disagree with your argument that once these students are 2292 01:46:18,270 --> 01:46:19,119 there they're not 2293 01:46:19,119 --> 01:46:21,140 going to use their vehicles a lot right they're going to do 2294 01:46:21,140 --> 01:46:22,000 a lot of walking and 2295 01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:25,090 biking but my question is to you how do they get to this 2296 01:46:25,090 --> 01:46:26,279 dwelling in the first 2297 01:46:26,279 --> 01:46:29,250 place they're coming from out of town or maybe the other 2298 01:46:29,250 --> 01:46:30,960 side of town they're not 2299 01:46:30,960 --> 01:46:33,090 necessarily going to walk or drive so where do they put 2300 01:46:33,090 --> 01:46:34,000 their car when we run 2301 01:46:34,000 --> 01:46:38,119 out of parking spaces in your facility in the garage I 2302 01:46:38,119 --> 01:46:39,239 guess where you're going 2303 01:46:39,239 --> 01:46:41,949 to be putting below the surface is that correct? Well no 2304 01:46:41,949 --> 01:46:43,000 the parking spaces I 2305 01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:46,710 don't know if you guys have the exact site plan the parking 2306 01:46:46,710 --> 01:46:48,199 garage is interior 2307 01:46:48,199 --> 01:46:52,039 building so there is a 222 space parking garage that's 2308 01:46:52,039 --> 01:46:53,880 concealed by the housing 2309 01:46:53,880 --> 01:46:57,600 development. Okay gotcha you're right so where when these 2310 01:46:57,600 --> 01:46:59,199 students get here 2311 01:46:59,199 --> 01:47:02,239 where they gonna put their cars if there's no place in that 2312 01:47:02,239 --> 01:47:03,079 facility put it 2313 01:47:03,079 --> 01:47:06,170 they're gonna put them on the streets and that's I think 2314 01:47:06,170 --> 01:47:07,199 what a lot of people 2315 01:47:07,199 --> 01:47:10,949 are concerned about is the overflow how that'll affect? 2316 01:47:10,949 --> 01:47:13,079 Based on the two direct 2317 01:47:13,079 --> 01:47:16,069 most comparable properties in the market we don't 2318 01:47:16,069 --> 01:47:17,880 necessarily believe that we 2319 01:47:17,880 --> 01:47:20,029 will have a hundred percent a hundred percent of our 2320 01:47:20,029 --> 01:47:21,000 tenants will not have 2321 01:47:21,000 --> 01:47:25,420 cars. Okay how do they get there though how does that how 2322 01:47:25,420 --> 01:47:26,439 does that work out I 2323 01:47:26,439 --> 01:47:29,300 mean what is that based on do their parents come and drop 2324 01:47:29,300 --> 01:47:30,479 them off and then 2325 01:47:30,479 --> 01:47:32,670 come get them when they go home? A lot of college students 2326 01:47:32,670 --> 01:47:33,920 don't necessarily own or 2327 01:47:33,920 --> 01:47:38,449 have cars so typically however they got to school they 2328 01:47:38,449 --> 01:47:39,079 would just live in our 2329 01:47:39,079 --> 01:47:42,399 apartment and utilize the pedestrian access points that we 2330 01:47:42,399 --> 01:47:43,439 will construct to 2331 01:47:43,439 --> 01:47:46,880 go to class. Okay again I'm not sure maybe I'm not making 2332 01:47:46,880 --> 01:47:47,359 clear I'm not sure 2333 01:47:47,359 --> 01:47:50,439 you're answering my question they've got to get there by 2334 01:47:50,439 --> 01:47:51,079 some mode of 2335 01:47:51,079 --> 01:47:53,500 transportation I would suspect that very few of them are 2336 01:47:53,500 --> 01:47:54,800 going to walk or bike if 2337 01:47:54,800 --> 01:47:58,659 they live in those apartments they're probably okay sure. I 2338 01:47:58,659 --> 01:47:59,560 have a daughter in 2339 01:47:59,560 --> 01:48:03,689 college and she's in a suburban college location and you 2340 01:48:03,689 --> 01:48:05,119 would expect a lot of 2341 01:48:05,119 --> 01:48:08,090 people to have cars it's in California you know where it's 2342 01:48:08,090 --> 01:48:09,020 a California car 2343 01:48:09,020 --> 01:48:15,439 culture there's probably 20 to 30 percent of her class she 2344 01:48:15,439 --> 01:48:16,079 's a sophomore 2345 01:48:16,079 --> 01:48:19,260 that own cars the rest of people they they drive their 2346 01:48:19,260 --> 01:48:20,560 parents drive them and 2347 01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:25,840 drop them off. Okay so that's pretty much what your base in 2348 01:48:25,840 --> 01:48:26,720 your estimates on 2349 01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:30,159 then is that? Well in their experience they have how many 2350 01:48:30,159 --> 01:48:30,680 projects in 2351 01:48:30,680 --> 01:48:33,579 Texas? We have six properties in Texas we own or manage 2352 01:48:33,579 --> 01:48:35,119 around 40,000 bids across 2353 01:48:35,119 --> 01:48:38,430 the country so as Rob alluded to earlier we would not build 2354 01:48:38,430 --> 01:48:39,720 a project that would 2355 01:48:39,720 --> 01:48:43,350 not be successful. We are a nationally recognized company 2356 01:48:43,350 --> 01:48:44,600 and we don't sell our 2357 01:48:44,600 --> 01:48:46,979 projects we're actually penalized if we develop something 2358 01:48:46,979 --> 01:48:48,039 and sell it because 2359 01:48:48,039 --> 01:48:50,869 we're a real estate investment trust traded on the New York 2360 01:48:50,869 --> 01:48:51,840 Stock has changed 2361 01:48:51,840 --> 01:48:55,310 the stock ticker EDR. Okay one last question then I'll turn 2362 01:48:55,310 --> 01:48:56,279 it over these 2363 01:48:56,279 --> 01:48:58,369 Texas sites that you have how long have they been in 2364 01:48:58,369 --> 01:48:59,539 existence where if we did 2365 01:48:59,539 --> 01:49:02,510 want to go view them have they been around? The most yes 2366 01:49:02,510 --> 01:49:04,239 they've been around the 2367 01:49:04,239 --> 01:49:07,680 the one that was the most recently developed was delivered 2368 01:49:07,680 --> 01:49:09,039 in 2013 in 2369 01:49:09,039 --> 01:49:12,390 Austin Texas we have a site under construction now in San 2370 01:49:12,390 --> 01:49:13,000 Marcos Texas 2371 01:49:13,000 --> 01:49:17,720 that is 69% parked. What about the TCU? TCU has been around 2372 01:49:17,720 --> 01:49:19,479 since 2005 but don't 2373 01:49:19,479 --> 01:49:22,560 quote me on that and I would encourage you to go look at 2374 01:49:22,560 --> 01:49:23,640 that site and you look 2375 01:49:23,640 --> 01:49:29,640 at the utilization of our parking garage. Okay thank you. 2376 01:49:31,600 --> 01:49:34,939 Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you chair. Mr. King I 2377 01:49:34,939 --> 01:49:37,840 acknowledge that you you have 2378 01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:40,500 made some accommodations after meeting with the 2379 01:49:40,500 --> 01:49:41,880 neighborhood you scaled back 2380 01:49:41,880 --> 01:49:46,020 the size of the or the number of dwelling bedrooms and 2381 01:49:46,020 --> 01:49:47,239 increased parking 2382 01:49:47,239 --> 01:49:49,420 spaces I'm wondering were there other accommodations that 2383 01:49:49,420 --> 01:49:50,159 were made when you 2384 01:49:50,159 --> 01:49:53,739 met with the neighborhood? Well those were the two items of 2385 01:49:53,739 --> 01:49:55,159 note we've made 2386 01:49:55,159 --> 01:49:59,619 some some additional architectural changes to actually let 2387 01:49:59,619 --> 01:50:00,680 the space on the 2388 01:50:00,680 --> 01:50:03,539 first floor be subdivided for future use if smaller tenants 2389 01:50:03,539 --> 01:50:05,119 want to come in but 2390 01:50:05,119 --> 01:50:07,930 that wasn't necessarily an issue with the neighborhood the 2391 01:50:07,930 --> 01:50:09,319 primary point of 2392 01:50:09,319 --> 01:50:12,050 focus with the neighborhood meetings was the parking. And 2393 01:50:12,050 --> 01:50:13,359 what about the height of 2394 01:50:13,359 --> 01:50:14,920 the building did anyone mention that to you in their 2395 01:50:14,920 --> 01:50:15,720 neighborhood meetings? 2396 01:50:15,720 --> 01:50:18,760 Believe it or not we thought height would be a big issue 2397 01:50:18,760 --> 01:50:20,039 but when you look at 2398 01:50:20,039 --> 01:50:22,789 the height on the raw terms it's pretty comparable as I 2399 01:50:22,789 --> 01:50:24,039 said earlier it's a yard 2400 01:50:24,039 --> 01:50:27,010 stick taller than the building that's down the street and 2401 01:50:27,010 --> 01:50:28,399 most neighbors have 2402 01:50:28,399 --> 01:50:33,000 it hasn't that issue hasn't arose again since we provide 2403 01:50:33,000 --> 01:50:36,840 the data. Okay thank you. 2404 01:50:37,119 --> 01:50:45,520 Commissioner Hutsmith. So I have two questions. One I'm 2405 01:50:45,520 --> 01:50:47,640 curious if you have any 2406 01:50:47,640 --> 01:50:50,720 documentation so you've you've alluded to the numbers for 2407 01:50:50,720 --> 01:50:51,840 your site your other 2408 01:50:51,840 --> 01:50:58,069 sites and and so and the the document you alluded to the 2409 01:50:58,069 --> 01:50:59,159 numbers of the sites 2410 01:50:59,159 --> 01:51:05,100 on that same in that same area but there's there's no I'm 2411 01:51:05,100 --> 01:51:05,960 assuming from your 2412 01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:08,859 the properties you could have easily or have gotten that 2413 01:51:08,859 --> 01:51:10,119 written down that says 2414 01:51:10,119 --> 01:51:13,880 here's our current usage here's our current there's nothing 2415 01:51:13,880 --> 01:51:14,560 that that that 2416 01:51:14,560 --> 01:51:18,920 documents other than you representing it so. Well I can 2417 01:51:18,920 --> 01:51:19,819 definitely get that 2418 01:51:19,819 --> 01:51:21,670 information but we didn't think that information was 2419 01:51:21,670 --> 01:51:22,560 relevant we thought the 2420 01:51:22,560 --> 01:51:26,119 two properties that are in the market are the most relevant 2421 01:51:26,119 --> 01:51:27,720 comps. So sure and 2422 01:51:27,720 --> 01:51:30,539 I agree and you've had a conversation with them and so I'm 2423 01:51:30,539 --> 01:51:31,399 assuming at some 2424 01:51:31,399 --> 01:51:35,539 level they would write that. Well you got to remember their 2425 01:51:35,539 --> 01:51:36,760 competitors so they're 2426 01:51:36,760 --> 01:51:40,880 not looking for a competitor to come into the market so I 2427 01:51:40,880 --> 01:51:41,319 wouldn't want to 2428 01:51:41,319 --> 01:51:47,239 put my fate in their hands. Okay my only my only point to 2429 01:51:47,239 --> 01:51:47,920 that is if they're 2430 01:51:47,920 --> 01:51:51,670 discussing it with you then obviously they're revealing 2431 01:51:51,670 --> 01:51:52,399 something behind 2432 01:51:52,399 --> 01:51:55,970 some closed order that you know they've gone a step if I 2433 01:51:55,970 --> 01:51:56,920 want to keep something 2434 01:51:56,920 --> 01:51:59,420 secret I won't even discuss it with you so the fact that 2435 01:51:59,420 --> 01:52:00,199 they've discussed it 2436 01:52:00,199 --> 01:52:04,340 with you means there's some level of in my opinion and I 2437 01:52:04,340 --> 01:52:06,199 could be wrong I could 2438 01:52:06,199 --> 01:52:08,890 just be ignorant to that but I don't I'll tell you where I 2439 01:52:08,890 --> 01:52:09,760 struggle with I 2440 01:52:09,760 --> 01:52:14,199 have your word correct and nothing in documenting those 2441 01:52:14,199 --> 01:52:15,119 those facts. Well to 2442 01:52:15,119 --> 01:52:17,779 your point there are two properties they're owned by two 2443 01:52:17,779 --> 01:52:18,279 different groups 2444 01:52:18,279 --> 01:52:21,340 one group is owned by ACC which is out of Austin Texas 2445 01:52:21,340 --> 01:52:22,399 which is our chief 2446 01:52:22,399 --> 01:52:25,130 competitor and we have a friendly arrangement that we share 2447 01:52:25,130 --> 01:52:25,760 information 2448 01:52:25,760 --> 01:52:28,859 back and forth we did get objective information on the 2449 01:52:28,859 --> 01:52:29,840 Eagle Street property 2450 01:52:29,840 --> 01:52:32,810 that property was on the market to be sold so we do have 2451 01:52:32,810 --> 01:52:33,880 the due diligence 2452 01:52:33,880 --> 01:52:36,779 materials there they're typically out open to the public so 2453 01:52:36,779 --> 01:52:37,560 that information 2454 01:52:37,560 --> 01:52:40,390 has been verified through the marketing of the property. 2455 01:52:40,390 --> 01:52:42,720 Okay and then if I may 2456 01:52:42,720 --> 01:52:48,600 the other question I had is so I've you've highlighted the 2457 01:52:48,600 --> 01:52:49,279 similarities 2458 01:52:49,279 --> 01:52:53,149 correct what's the difference what is that what is the and 2459 01:52:53,149 --> 01:52:54,000 give me give me 2460 01:52:54,000 --> 01:52:59,250 just the the top one or two what what what value add do you 2461 01:52:59,250 --> 01:53:00,840 bring to that to 2462 01:53:00,840 --> 01:53:03,619 that area? The differences in this project is actually 2463 01:53:03,619 --> 01:53:05,039 smaller than both of 2464 01:53:05,039 --> 01:53:08,539 those projects that are on Hick on Fry Street and the Eagle 2465 01:53:08,539 --> 01:53:10,199 Drive project so 2466 01:53:10,199 --> 01:53:12,409 we're not looking for a massive intensive use like the 2467 01:53:12,409 --> 01:53:13,039 youth center at 2468 01:53:13,039 --> 01:53:16,130 Fry Street project and also one of the differences is it 2469 01:53:16,130 --> 01:53:16,720 may not necessarily 2470 01:53:16,720 --> 01:53:19,630 answer your question but the University of North Texas is 2471 01:53:19,630 --> 01:53:20,800 growing and they have 2472 01:53:20,800 --> 01:53:26,460 an aggressive growth plan and they're going there is a need 2473 01:53:26,460 --> 01:53:27,239 for this type of 2474 01:53:27,239 --> 01:53:33,359 housing the entire market here in Den Texas is 99% occupied 2475 01:53:33,359 --> 01:53:34,960 . One other thing I 2476 01:53:34,960 --> 01:53:38,119 think they bring is that they own and operate their own 2477 01:53:38,119 --> 01:53:39,399 facilities they're not 2478 01:53:39,399 --> 01:53:42,140 merchant builders they don't build it and then sell it so 2479 01:53:42,140 --> 01:53:42,840 they're they're 2480 01:53:42,840 --> 01:53:47,670 going to be around to make sure it's maintained for their 2481 01:53:47,670 --> 01:53:49,539 investors. If I may. 2482 01:53:49,539 --> 01:53:52,979 Continue you have the floor. So a but really I'm looking 2483 01:53:52,979 --> 01:53:54,960 for a tangible I guess 2484 01:53:54,960 --> 01:54:00,449 that's my point I understand the need for apartments and 2485 01:54:00,449 --> 01:54:01,960 housing for the 2486 01:54:01,960 --> 01:54:06,300 students I understand that due to that need someone's going 2487 01:54:06,300 --> 01:54:06,640 to build an 2488 01:54:06,640 --> 01:54:09,329 apartment but what I'm specifically saying what tangible I 2489 01:54:09,329 --> 01:54:10,560 could I for 2490 01:54:10,560 --> 01:54:14,699 example there's grocery stores and needed what what what 2491 01:54:14,699 --> 01:54:15,840 value add what 2492 01:54:15,840 --> 01:54:19,479 tangible if I'm talking to a student a resident in that 2493 01:54:19,479 --> 01:54:21,560 area that's going to be 2494 01:54:21,560 --> 01:54:25,159 against your proposal there's got to be do you have 2495 01:54:25,159 --> 01:54:27,439 something that says here's 2496 01:54:27,439 --> 01:54:31,239 why this is a good project for not only the students that 2497 01:54:31,239 --> 01:54:32,479 it's walkable that 2498 01:54:32,479 --> 01:54:35,239 sort of thing but for the area. I think you just hit on it 2499 01:54:35,239 --> 01:54:36,159 there are about 13 2500 01:54:36,159 --> 01:54:39,449 purpose-built student properties here and then two of them 2501 01:54:39,449 --> 01:54:40,880 only two out of 13 2502 01:54:40,880 --> 01:54:44,319 of pedestrian to campus so the value we bring to this 2503 01:54:44,319 --> 01:54:45,760 project is the location 2504 01:54:45,760 --> 01:54:49,430 and the proximity to the University of North Texas. Okay 2505 01:54:49,430 --> 01:54:52,960 thank you. Correct and 2506 01:54:52,960 --> 01:54:56,000 that is one important point that Rob just brought up I don 2507 01:54:56,000 --> 01:54:57,039 't know if you guys 2508 01:54:57,039 --> 01:55:00,319 can see it in the conceptual plan but Vortmans right now 2509 01:55:00,319 --> 01:55:01,600 occupies that site 2510 01:55:01,600 --> 01:55:05,720 Vortmans will be going back into the building on the first 2511 01:55:05,720 --> 01:55:06,760 floor and they 2512 01:55:06,760 --> 01:55:13,210 will own their space. Commissioner Roselle. Thank you sir. 2513 01:55:13,210 --> 01:55:14,680 I have a question 2514 01:55:14,680 --> 01:55:18,119 about the renting of the apartments if it's a two-bedroom 2515 01:55:18,119 --> 01:55:19,159 is it rented as a 2516 01:55:19,159 --> 01:55:22,130 two-bedroom for one name lease or is it two different 2517 01:55:22,130 --> 01:55:23,920 people in the lease? We 2518 01:55:23,920 --> 01:55:27,630 rent per bedroom so a two-bedroom apartment can have two 2519 01:55:27,630 --> 01:55:28,520 tenants in it 2520 01:55:28,520 --> 01:55:31,760 they cannot share or double up in the bedroom so we have 2521 01:55:31,760 --> 01:55:33,520 300 beds we intend to 2522 01:55:33,520 --> 01:55:36,989 have 300 residents hopefully if we're successful in this 2523 01:55:36,989 --> 01:55:38,520 development. So if if 2524 01:55:38,520 --> 01:55:42,050 me and a friend go in and rent two bedrooms and he decides 2525 01:55:42,050 --> 01:55:43,000 that he wants 2526 01:55:43,000 --> 01:55:46,489 out, breaks the lease and leaves are you free to rent that 2527 01:55:46,489 --> 01:55:47,439 room out to any 2528 01:55:47,439 --> 01:55:50,520 applicant? Correct that's the beauty of the purpose-built 2529 01:55:50,520 --> 01:55:52,319 student housing. Parents 2530 01:55:52,319 --> 01:55:54,979 really like the concept because you're not liable for your 2531 01:55:54,979 --> 01:55:55,520 roommates rent 2532 01:55:55,520 --> 01:55:59,039 you're only liable for the lease you signed so if your 2533 01:55:59,039 --> 01:56:00,520 friend you know 2534 01:56:00,520 --> 01:56:04,560 prunex on his lease we can rent that we can relit that 2535 01:56:04,560 --> 01:56:05,600 space to another tenant. 2536 01:56:05,600 --> 01:56:09,800 But that other tenant could be a non-student? Technically 2537 01:56:09,800 --> 01:56:10,880 it could be but 2538 01:56:10,880 --> 01:56:16,239 with the proximity and use we own or manage 40,000 beds 2539 01:56:16,239 --> 01:56:16,760 across the country 2540 01:56:16,760 --> 01:56:21,760 about 99% of our residents are students. Sure I understand 2541 01:56:21,760 --> 01:56:22,880 that I'd still have a 2542 01:56:22,880 --> 01:56:27,899 concern about bringing in an older individual who can just 2543 01:56:27,899 --> 01:56:29,180 room with with 2544 01:56:29,180 --> 01:56:33,399 any student on campus. And that's one of the points we have 2545 01:56:33,399 --> 01:56:33,920 our own management 2546 01:56:33,920 --> 01:56:37,079 partner if there is a roommate conflict we offer services 2547 01:56:37,079 --> 01:56:38,279 to deal with that we 2548 01:56:38,279 --> 01:56:41,470 typically interface with the university on a monthly basis 2549 01:56:41,470 --> 01:56:42,560 so if there's a grave 2550 01:56:42,560 --> 01:56:48,210 or you know concern about your roommate we'll do our best 2551 01:56:48,210 --> 01:56:49,640 to relocate that 2552 01:56:49,640 --> 01:56:54,430 roommate to make sure they're comfortable. Thank you. 2553 01:56:54,430 --> 01:56:56,239 Commissioner Dudowitz. Thank 2554 01:56:56,239 --> 01:56:59,310 you chair just to get some more clarification what's the 2555 01:56:59,310 --> 01:57:00,039 cost to a 2556 01:57:00,039 --> 01:57:04,180 student or a resident per bed and how is it allocated per 2557 01:57:04,180 --> 01:57:06,119 month or quarter per 2558 01:57:06,119 --> 01:57:08,819 semester? They pay monthly rent the cost would be very 2559 01:57:08,819 --> 01:57:09,640 similar to the youth 2560 01:57:09,640 --> 01:57:12,920 center and frasteries starting about 650 for a four-bedroom 2561 01:57:12,920 --> 01:57:14,399 I think a three 2562 01:57:14,399 --> 01:57:17,270 bedroom goes all the way up to about 900 bucks. So between 2563 01:57:17,270 --> 01:57:19,840 650 to 900 per 2564 01:57:19,840 --> 01:57:25,000 month? Correct. What happens during the summer when classes 2565 01:57:25,000 --> 01:57:25,800 are out? There are 12 2566 01:57:25,800 --> 01:57:28,510 month leases. There are 12 month lease. Are they allowed to 2567 01:57:28,510 --> 01:57:31,359 sublease? No. Okay again 2568 01:57:31,359 --> 01:57:35,090 that's another question. Parking how is one access to the 2569 01:57:35,090 --> 01:57:36,279 parking lot is it a 2570 01:57:36,279 --> 01:57:39,970 gate? I don't know if you can see the conceptual plan and 2571 01:57:39,970 --> 01:57:41,039 this may be a little 2572 01:57:41,039 --> 01:57:44,890 bit confusing what you're looking at now that private drive 2573 01:57:44,890 --> 01:57:46,960 is not there now with 2574 01:57:46,960 --> 01:57:49,640 the construction of this building we will create a private 2575 01:57:49,640 --> 01:57:50,319 drive so if you 2576 01:57:50,319 --> 01:57:52,979 see that opening in the conceptual painting right with a 2577 01:57:52,979 --> 01:57:53,760 car that's where 2578 01:57:53,760 --> 01:57:56,800 the garage is. That's a good point I want to make that no 2579 01:57:56,800 --> 01:57:58,520 traffic or car 2580 01:57:58,520 --> 01:58:02,380 stacking will occur on Hickory or Oak Street it will all 2581 01:58:02,380 --> 01:58:03,640 occur on the private 2582 01:58:03,640 --> 01:58:08,680 drive. Okay now is there a metered gate? Correct there is 2583 01:58:08,680 --> 01:58:09,439 secured access to the garage. 2584 01:58:09,439 --> 01:58:14,239 But not for the retail parking. Excuse me? There's secured 2585 01:58:14,239 --> 01:58:17,970 access to the parking garage for the residents not for the 2586 01:58:17,970 --> 01:58:19,479 retail parking 2587 01:58:19,479 --> 01:58:26,760 spaces. Okay so that's right okay so the gate is further up 2588 01:58:26,760 --> 01:58:28,079 so retail can come in 2589 01:58:28,079 --> 01:58:32,039 and park on the ground level and how many parking spaces 2590 01:58:32,039 --> 01:58:32,760 have you allocated 2591 01:58:32,760 --> 01:58:34,779 to that? We haven't detailed that out yet we're still in 2592 01:58:34,779 --> 01:58:35,640 negotiations with the 2593 01:58:35,640 --> 01:58:39,939 city to see we got to kind of get some bookmarks to see 2594 01:58:39,939 --> 01:58:42,180 what the usage but we 2595 01:58:42,180 --> 01:58:45,409 believe the retail the allotted square footage that we have 2596 01:58:45,409 --> 01:58:46,439 now per code 2597 01:58:46,439 --> 01:58:49,789 requires 18 spaces for the retail we believe have more than 2598 01:58:49,789 --> 01:58:50,399 enough to 2599 01:58:50,399 --> 01:58:53,869 accommodate that. Further to the owner of the space may 2600 01:58:53,869 --> 01:58:56,800 want more. Okay further to 2601 01:58:56,800 --> 01:59:00,760 the retail besides Vortmans how many other storefronts are 2602 01:59:00,760 --> 01:59:02,560 planned? I'm sorry 2603 01:59:02,560 --> 01:59:06,800 besides Vortmans how many retail storefronts? We have two 2604 01:59:06,800 --> 01:59:08,239 we have Vortmans 2605 01:59:08,239 --> 01:59:10,520 and the Subway restaurant is expressed in the interest of 2606 01:59:10,520 --> 01:59:11,680 going back in. So you 2607 01:59:11,680 --> 01:59:14,840 only have two retail? That's all of the space though we 2608 01:59:14,840 --> 01:59:16,359 have two named tenants 2609 01:59:16,359 --> 01:59:19,039 which will occupy 100% of the square footage. So it's not 2610 01:59:19,039 --> 01:59:20,199 four or five six it's just 2611 01:59:20,199 --> 01:59:23,920 two two residents and that's the extent of retail. Correct 2612 01:59:23,920 --> 01:59:24,640 and the both of those 2613 01:59:24,640 --> 01:59:28,239 the extent of retail is about 15,000 square feet which will 2614 01:59:28,239 --> 01:59:29,359 occupy the entire 2615 01:59:29,359 --> 01:59:35,180 Hickory Street frontage. But Subway and Vortmans? Correct. 2616 01:59:35,180 --> 01:59:36,319 Which were displaced 2617 01:59:36,319 --> 01:59:39,210 or will be displaced but coming back in so they're so they 2618 01:59:39,210 --> 01:59:40,279 're already there. 2619 01:59:40,279 --> 01:59:42,939 Correct. And the business and traffic they have there now 2620 01:59:42,939 --> 01:59:43,720 will just come right 2621 01:59:43,720 --> 01:59:47,670 back. Is that your? I believe so. Okay so it's not adding 2622 01:59:47,670 --> 01:59:49,199 anything more or less in 2623 01:59:49,199 --> 01:59:52,880 your opinion as we discussed? Okay thank you. 2624 01:59:52,880 --> 01:59:57,460 Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. Mr. King kind of 2625 01:59:57,460 --> 02:00:00,079 staying with Commissioner 2626 02:00:00,079 --> 02:00:05,479 Hudspeth's concerns about your data regarding based on 2627 02:00:05,479 --> 02:00:07,039 similar apartment 2628 02:00:07,039 --> 02:00:10,710 units and their need for parking. You mentioned that the 2629 02:00:10,710 --> 02:00:11,600 Eagle Street 2630 02:00:11,600 --> 02:00:13,289 apartment I can't think of the name of but you know what I 2631 02:00:13,289 --> 02:00:14,000 'm talking about. 2632 02:00:14,000 --> 02:00:17,949 33 degrees. Right right you mentioned that you got your 2633 02:00:17,949 --> 02:00:19,479 data from the 2634 02:00:19,479 --> 02:00:21,800 due diligence made from the sale of the property is that 2635 02:00:21,800 --> 02:00:22,800 correct? Well we got our 2636 02:00:22,800 --> 02:00:26,479 data made we got our initial data from that packet and we 2637 02:00:26,479 --> 02:00:27,800 confirmed with the 2638 02:00:27,800 --> 02:00:31,789 management company on January 6th of this month. Okay so 2639 02:00:31,789 --> 02:00:33,319 there was two time 2640 02:00:33,319 --> 02:00:36,479 periods there. What was the difference between time periods 2641 02:00:36,479 --> 02:00:37,439 a month? Well the due 2642 02:00:37,439 --> 02:00:39,939 diligence packet went out late last year when the property 2643 02:00:39,939 --> 02:00:40,920 was on the market. Yeah. 2644 02:00:40,920 --> 02:00:43,890 So we confirmed we reconfirmed that information earlier 2645 02:00:43,890 --> 02:00:46,000 this month. Okay and 2646 02:00:46,000 --> 02:00:49,529 I'm gonna get into near you may or may not know it but they 2647 02:00:49,529 --> 02:00:50,720 were selling their 2648 02:00:50,720 --> 02:00:55,079 property is it because they were unable to keep enough 2649 02:00:55,079 --> 02:00:56,880 occupancy to make any 2650 02:00:56,880 --> 02:00:58,720 money do you know? That property is a hundred percent 2651 02:00:58,720 --> 02:00:59,600 occupied they were 2652 02:00:59,600 --> 02:01:02,680 selling the property because Rob alluded to this earlier. A 2653 02:01:02,680 --> 02:01:03,760 typical developers 2654 02:01:03,760 --> 02:01:06,479 build develop a property and then about two years of 2655 02:01:06,479 --> 02:01:08,760 operation they sell it to 2656 02:01:08,760 --> 02:01:12,670 maximize their profit and go on to the next development. We 2657 02:01:12,670 --> 02:01:13,760 don't do that we 2658 02:01:13,760 --> 02:01:16,479 will develop this property on and operate it in perpetuity. 2659 02:01:16,479 --> 02:01:18,479 Okay so as far 2660 02:01:18,479 --> 02:01:21,140 as you know they sold their property to somebody else to 2661 02:01:21,140 --> 02:01:22,279 keep it running is that 2662 02:01:22,279 --> 02:01:26,479 correct? I'm sorry. The people at the Eagle Street 2663 02:01:26,479 --> 02:01:29,260 Department they were selling it not because business was 2664 02:01:29,260 --> 02:01:30,199 bad. No they were 2665 02:01:30,199 --> 02:01:35,119 selling because business is great. Okay okay thanks. 2666 02:01:35,600 --> 02:01:43,159 Commissioner Taylor. Thank you Jim I might be the last one 2667 02:01:43,159 --> 02:01:44,199 up here to ask you 2668 02:01:44,199 --> 02:01:48,079 a question before we move into the public hearing. So could 2669 02:01:48,079 --> 02:01:48,960 you explain a 2670 02:01:48,960 --> 02:01:51,210 little bit more in this this concept plan I think I 2671 02:01:51,210 --> 02:01:52,880 understand it now but you 2672 02:01:52,880 --> 02:01:55,539 show a lot of green space and a corner on a street that 2673 02:01:55,539 --> 02:01:57,000 doesn't currently exist 2674 02:01:57,000 --> 02:01:59,829 could you just walk us through and lay us out where this is 2675 02:01:59,829 --> 02:02:01,600 ? Okay well right now 2676 02:02:01,600 --> 02:02:04,890 this site I wish I had a site map but I don't this site is 2677 02:02:04,890 --> 02:02:06,000 right now where it's 2678 02:02:06,000 --> 02:02:10,960 currently occupying the Bortman's lot and if you look at 2679 02:02:10,960 --> 02:02:13,960 this car here that's 2680 02:02:13,960 --> 02:02:18,000 where the coffee shop is right right off the map so this 2681 02:02:18,000 --> 02:02:20,079 private drive will be 2682 02:02:20,079 --> 02:02:24,659 will intersect Oak and Hickory. Actually let me let the 2683 02:02:24,659 --> 02:02:26,840 architect explain it a little bit better than me. 2684 02:02:26,840 --> 02:02:31,520 There was a site plan. I'm sorry yeah. I wanted to explain 2685 02:02:31,520 --> 02:02:36,840 their pretty picture. Staff we have a site plan in your 2686 02:02:36,840 --> 02:02:43,149 module that I think might suffice that it's not in their 2687 02:02:43,149 --> 02:02:45,000 deck. Okay. That the public can see. 2688 02:02:45,000 --> 02:02:49,000 Is that a mouse? Yeah there's a mouse here. 2689 02:03:06,840 --> 02:03:24,840 [Silence] 2690 02:03:24,840 --> 02:03:50,840 138 139 and 143. 2691 02:03:50,840 --> 02:03:54,020 Okay my name is Yao Yu from Humphrey's and Partners 2692 02:03:54,020 --> 02:03:57,239 Architects. I live in 2529 2693 02:03:57,239 --> 02:04:03,840 Scenic Drive Plano, Texas. So on this let me just explain 2694 02:04:03,840 --> 02:04:08,079 how this works. You can 2695 02:04:08,079 --> 02:04:12,640 see my mouse? Yeah. So you know this this is Hickory Street 2696 02:04:12,640 --> 02:04:15,760 and then that's on the 2697 02:04:15,760 --> 02:04:19,729 south and Oak Street on the north. So we have a private 2698 02:04:19,729 --> 02:04:21,359 drive that basically 2699 02:04:21,359 --> 02:04:26,560 connects those two streets and that also act as a service 2700 02:04:26,560 --> 02:04:29,640 drive. So basically if 2701 02:04:29,640 --> 02:04:35,140 you're a student or a retail user you come through that and 2702 02:04:35,140 --> 02:04:35,920 then and then in 2703 02:04:35,920 --> 02:04:41,149 the middle that's where you enter the gate. Not the gated 2704 02:04:41,149 --> 02:04:43,399 garage. So this is how 2705 02:04:43,399 --> 02:04:47,720 you enter it through the service drive. So off that then 2706 02:04:47,720 --> 02:04:49,000 you can enter the 2707 02:04:49,000 --> 02:04:52,689 garage. So you know probably this is the portion that's for 2708 02:04:52,689 --> 02:04:54,439 the retails and then 2709 02:04:54,439 --> 02:04:58,560 you get up the ramp which where we will have a probably a 2710 02:04:58,560 --> 02:05:01,079 gate somewhere here to 2711 02:05:01,079 --> 02:05:06,279 segregate the retail parking versus the residential parking 2712 02:05:06,279 --> 02:05:08,520 . The retails are all 2713 02:05:08,520 --> 02:05:14,069 rated basically on Hickory Street. That's where it is. And 2714 02:05:14,069 --> 02:05:15,479 then on the elevation 2715 02:05:15,479 --> 02:05:31,800 that you see. So the side is not flat. It has about a feet 2716 02:05:31,800 --> 02:05:33,119 of drop. So that's why 2717 02:05:33,119 --> 02:05:38,399 you can see that the side basically goes up. So the corner 2718 02:05:38,399 --> 02:05:41,359 of southeast is really 2719 02:05:41,359 --> 02:05:45,680 the lowest point. That's where we have all the retail 2720 02:05:45,680 --> 02:05:48,199 entries. Basically the 2721 02:05:48,199 --> 02:05:54,520 bookstore and subways. And the so then that other area that 2722 02:05:54,520 --> 02:05:56,479 's that kind of 2723 02:05:56,479 --> 02:05:59,470 becomes a basement heads back into the hills. That's a 2724 02:05:59,470 --> 02:06:00,880 warehouse area for the 2725 02:06:00,880 --> 02:06:04,159 bookstore. Yes that's what we are planning at this moment. 2726 02:06:04,159 --> 02:06:04,920 It's not a 2727 02:06:04,920 --> 02:06:07,890 warehouse area. It's usable, runnable space for the 2728 02:06:07,890 --> 02:06:09,279 bookstore. Right but it's 2729 02:06:09,279 --> 02:06:11,449 not it's not street accessible. It's not like a storefront. 2730 02:06:11,449 --> 02:06:12,479 It's going to be the back of the 2731 02:06:12,479 --> 02:06:16,609 store or something like that. And so this is 17,000 square 2732 02:06:16,609 --> 02:06:17,600 feet of retail. Is that 2733 02:06:17,600 --> 02:06:21,840 something like that? I think it's about 15. 15. And how 2734 02:06:21,840 --> 02:06:24,760 much is existing on the site now? Right now 2735 02:06:24,760 --> 02:06:32,510 Wortmans occupies about 24,000 square feet. Correct. Wort 2736 02:06:32,510 --> 02:06:39,960 mans occupies about 24,000 square feet. They're reducing 2737 02:06:39,960 --> 02:06:43,680 their footprint to about 11. A subway occupies about 1500. 2738 02:06:43,680 --> 02:06:46,279 So they'll roughly be about the same amount. And are there 2739 02:06:46,279 --> 02:06:51,779 any other current existing retail occupants? No. But the 2740 02:06:51,779 --> 02:06:54,560 Vertman store does have the ability to further 2741 02:06:54,560 --> 02:06:58,029 reduce its space and attract additional retailers. We've 2742 02:06:58,029 --> 02:06:59,399 designed the site in such 2743 02:06:59,399 --> 02:07:04,460 a way that it can be subdivided in the future. And a final 2744 02:07:04,460 --> 02:07:06,439 question. Did you 2745 02:07:06,439 --> 02:07:11,479 consider building a 35 foot high building and just removing 2746 02:07:11,479 --> 02:07:14,439 the upper floor? We did. But in order for 2747 02:07:14,439 --> 02:07:16,689 development to be financially feasible, you have to have a 2748 02:07:16,689 --> 02:07:17,399 certain amount of 2749 02:07:17,399 --> 02:07:20,640 scale. And with land prices in the area, that's what's dict 2750 02:07:20,640 --> 02:07:21,800 ating the height of 2751 02:07:21,800 --> 02:07:28,520 the building. Thank you. I've got a couple questions. You 2752 02:07:28,520 --> 02:07:29,319 just mentioned that you've 2753 02:07:29,319 --> 02:07:32,640 got an eight feet rise on the property. Correct. So I guess 2754 02:07:32,640 --> 02:07:33,439 the west end of the 2755 02:07:33,439 --> 02:07:35,640 building essentially on your measurements can be eight feet 2756 02:07:35,640 --> 02:07:36,000 shorter 2757 02:07:36,000 --> 02:07:42,619 than your tallest portion. Correct. Correct. Correct. 2758 02:07:42,619 --> 02:07:45,439 Correct. Correct. Correct. We don't have any details as far 2759 02:07:45,439 --> 02:07:48,359 as your concept plan. So this is the first ones that we've 2760 02:07:48,359 --> 02:07:51,479 got an opportunity to see. Is the tallest part here on the 2761 02:07:51,479 --> 02:07:53,300 corner and then the other parts of the building are 2762 02:07:53,300 --> 02:07:54,399 stepping down because we 2763 02:07:54,399 --> 02:07:57,439 don't have any of those details to review? Correct. The 2764 02:07:57,439 --> 02:07:58,760 tallest part is at the 2765 02:07:58,760 --> 02:08:03,289 southeast corner. The entry, the retail entry of the 2766 02:08:03,289 --> 02:08:04,800 building. Okay. And what 2767 02:08:04,800 --> 02:08:07,770 about the west end of the building? The west end of the 2768 02:08:07,770 --> 02:08:10,899 building? Yes, sir. Up the street? Yes, sir. It's about 2769 02:08:10,899 --> 02:08:15,050 eight foot shorter. But it is a continuous, it's 58 feet, 2770 02:08:15,050 --> 02:08:16,239 it's 58 across the... 2771 02:08:16,239 --> 02:08:21,250 Well, from the point of the base is 50 feet, but the ground 2772 02:08:21,250 --> 02:08:24,039 rises eight feet. So the 2773 02:08:24,039 --> 02:08:27,090 building is 50 feet tall on the west side and it grows to 2774 02:08:27,090 --> 02:08:29,239 58 as you come down the street. You just did it in reverse. 2775 02:08:29,239 --> 02:08:32,239 You're going from the west going east and I'm going east 2776 02:08:32,239 --> 02:08:35,359 going west. Okay. 2777 02:08:35,359 --> 02:08:38,829 What you see in the corner is the highest corner, basically 2778 02:08:38,829 --> 02:08:42,390 . Gotcha. And then the second question, I think one of the 2779 02:08:42,390 --> 02:08:45,760 main elements that was missing is what's the issue with 2780 02:08:45,760 --> 02:08:51,039 the fire apparatus? Right now we know there's an issue and 2781 02:08:51,039 --> 02:08:51,560 we're working with 2782 02:08:51,560 --> 02:08:57,170 the city to address that issue. Adam, yeah, you can speak 2783 02:08:57,170 --> 02:08:58,239 to the actual 2784 02:08:58,239 --> 02:09:00,909 technicalities of the fire apparatus issue. But if we don't 2785 02:09:00,909 --> 02:09:02,640 solve that issue, we cannot 2786 02:09:02,640 --> 02:09:08,079 develop this property. Yeah, basically we were proposing 2787 02:09:08,079 --> 02:09:09,399 either the 2788 02:09:09,399 --> 02:09:15,220 Hickory Street or the Oak Street as a fire apparatus road. 2789 02:09:15,220 --> 02:09:17,359 And the width and the 2790 02:09:17,359 --> 02:09:23,109 distance from basically require a 26 foot wide fire lane. 2791 02:09:23,109 --> 02:09:24,760 And then from that edge of 2792 02:09:24,760 --> 02:09:27,109 that fire lane to the building, there's a minimum 2793 02:09:27,109 --> 02:09:28,840 requirement of 15 feet and a 2794 02:09:28,840 --> 02:09:32,520 maximum requirement of 30 feet. So we meet all that. 2795 02:09:32,520 --> 02:09:35,920 However, the fire marshal right 2796 02:09:35,920 --> 02:09:39,869 now thinks there's going to be street parking on that to 2797 02:09:39,869 --> 02:09:41,279 maybe blocking some 2798 02:09:41,279 --> 02:09:47,090 of the parking, fire truck parking. So she is having some 2799 02:09:47,090 --> 02:09:49,079 reservation on that. But 2800 02:09:49,079 --> 02:09:55,920 to the letter of the fire code, we meet it. There's a small 2801 02:09:55,920 --> 02:09:59,279 sentence at the end that says that the local fire marshal's 2802 02:09:59,279 --> 02:10:01,640 discretion. So that's the part we're working through. 2803 02:10:01,640 --> 02:10:06,100 Okay, so you can't meet it with your private drive area 2804 02:10:06,100 --> 02:10:09,680 then? No. Okay. We've widened the 2805 02:10:09,680 --> 02:10:13,050 private drive 26 feet, but from the edge of the private 2806 02:10:13,050 --> 02:10:14,119 drive to the building is 2807 02:10:14,119 --> 02:10:20,079 10 feet instead of 15. So we're working through that. Okay. 2808 02:10:20,079 --> 02:10:23,520 Looks like I've spoken. We've got some more questions now. 2809 02:10:23,520 --> 02:10:28,029 Commissioner Hodgepitt. Thank you. I just, quick question. 2810 02:10:28,029 --> 02:10:28,239 The 2811 02:10:28,239 --> 02:10:33,319 private drive, is that two-way? Yes. And give me a, help me 2812 02:10:33,319 --> 02:10:35,199 see that. Is that just a, 2813 02:10:35,199 --> 02:10:39,560 is it an alleyway cement on either side? Obviously the 2814 02:10:39,560 --> 02:10:41,159 building's on one side. 2815 02:10:41,159 --> 02:10:45,420 What's on that, what's on the side of the coffee shop there 2816 02:10:45,420 --> 02:10:49,039 ? Yeah, landscaping. 2817 02:10:49,840 --> 02:10:56,229 Yes, that's what's shown right now. It's on the landscaping 2818 02:10:56,229 --> 02:11:03,359 plan here. Okay. Thank you. Yes. Commissioner Begg. Thank 2819 02:11:03,359 --> 02:11:06,439 you, Chair. Thank you, Chair. Hopefully this will be the 2820 02:11:06,439 --> 02:11:07,159 last question to 2821 02:11:07,159 --> 02:11:09,289 help from us. But, and this is totally unrelated to the 2822 02:11:09,289 --> 02:11:12,479 type of question we've been having, but it is related to 2823 02:11:12,479 --> 02:11:14,600 something that concerns the city with our renewable 2824 02:11:14,600 --> 02:11:18,319 energy. Okay. I didn't plan. What green construction 2825 02:11:18,319 --> 02:11:21,880 practices are y'all planning on utilizing? We typically 2826 02:11:21,880 --> 02:11:26,800 utilize all the LEED practices. Y'all can speak to more of 2827 02:11:26,800 --> 02:11:29,800 that. We won't be commissioning the building for any sort 2828 02:11:29,800 --> 02:11:32,159 of LEED certification, but we do believe it's good 2829 02:11:32,159 --> 02:11:35,600 operational and maintenance practices to design a renewable 2830 02:11:35,600 --> 02:11:38,260 and energy sustainable building. Okay. Because we will 2831 02:11:38,260 --> 02:11:42,170 operate it in its perpetuity. Using the LEED standards? 2832 02:11:42,170 --> 02:11:44,520 Using LEED standards. Right. L-E-D. Right. 2833 02:11:44,520 --> 02:11:49,069 Got it. Okay. Thanks. Any other questions? Thank you, 2834 02:11:49,069 --> 02:11:54,100 gentlemen. Thank you, guys. Again, this is a public hearing 2835 02:11:54,100 --> 02:11:59,510 . I have a number of cards. I'm going to start. I'm going to 2836 02:11:59,510 --> 02:12:05,119 change the order. We have cards, blue cards to speak, and 2837 02:12:05,119 --> 02:12:08,199 we have white cards that do not wish to speak. So I'm going 2838 02:12:08,199 --> 02:12:10,619 to read those into the record first. So if those people are 2839 02:12:10,619 --> 02:12:13,050 here and want to leave, they at least know their comments 2840 02:12:13,050 --> 02:12:13,640 have been 2841 02:12:14,279 --> 02:12:17,060 brought into the record. And I want to remind the audience, 2842 02:12:17,060 --> 02:12:19,890 as a reminder from staff to me, is that we have two items 2843 02:12:19,890 --> 02:12:22,909 as a commission that we're able to consider on this project 2844 02:12:22,909 --> 02:12:27,050 . One is the height of the building, and the second item is 2845 02:12:27,050 --> 02:12:31,000 in regards to the ratio on the parking. Other than that, 2846 02:12:31,000 --> 02:12:35,720 this project does meet the zoning requirements for this 2847 02:12:35,720 --> 02:12:38,560 area. It can be built there if it was shorter. If the 2848 02:12:38,560 --> 02:12:41,640 parking requirements were met, they could build a project. 2849 02:12:41,640 --> 02:12:44,199 So the two items that we have to, again, 2850 02:12:44,279 --> 02:12:47,420 to consider is the building height and the parking. And 2851 02:12:47,420 --> 02:12:50,949 with that clarification, I'm going to start with, I have 2852 02:12:50,949 --> 02:13:00,590 Bridget Corbett. Okay. These are the ones that aren't. She 2853 02:13:00,590 --> 02:13:05,800 did not wish to speak. She was in opposition to the project 2854 02:13:05,800 --> 02:13:11,939 , and there's no comment as to why. Then there is Penny Coo 2855 02:13:11,939 --> 02:13:13,199 ley. 2856 02:13:13,199 --> 02:13:17,609 She is in opposition, does not wish to speak, and there is 2857 02:13:17,609 --> 02:13:23,010 no additional comment on that. And then there is B. Elaine 2858 02:13:23,010 --> 02:13:32,439 Davis. She does not wish to speak, and she is in opposition 2859 02:13:32,439 --> 02:13:37,640 with no particular comment. 2860 02:13:37,640 --> 02:13:40,880 I think there's one other item is the density. Is that 2861 02:13:40,880 --> 02:13:47,670 correct? So three items instead of two. Okay. My apologies. 2862 02:13:47,670 --> 02:13:50,340 And we have our blue cards. These are individuals that do 2863 02:13:50,340 --> 02:13:52,789 wish to speak. Again, this is a public hearing, so as I 2864 02:13:52,789 --> 02:13:55,239 call you forward, I'm going to go ahead because of the 2865 02:13:55,239 --> 02:13:55,640 number. 2866 02:13:55,640 --> 02:14:00,439 I will give the next person to speak if you'll get ready. 2867 02:14:00,439 --> 02:14:05,140 When you come up, if you will state your name and address 2868 02:14:05,140 --> 02:14:10,060 for the record, you'll have three minutes to speak. Our 2869 02:14:10,060 --> 02:14:15,439 first card will be Darlene Mullenweg at 711 West Oak, 2870 02:14:15,439 --> 02:14:24,760 followed by Mary Anderson. 2871 02:14:24,760 --> 02:14:29,159 Before my time starts, how long do I have? Three minutes. 2872 02:14:29,159 --> 02:14:33,039 All right. Darlene Mullenweg, 711 West Oak Street. I live 2873 02:14:33,039 --> 02:14:36,949 about one and a half blocks from this project. I do not 2874 02:14:36,949 --> 02:14:41,720 have any doubt this will be a very successful housing 2875 02:14:41,720 --> 02:14:43,119 project. 2876 02:14:43,119 --> 02:14:48,180 And they are very liquid, a very good company. I've checked 2877 02:14:48,180 --> 02:14:52,449 them out. I do have a problem with their asking for a 2878 02:14:52,449 --> 02:14:56,979 variance on parking. Their impact study, which the city has 2879 02:14:56,979 --> 02:15:01,560 not done, they left it to the developer to do that, was 2880 02:15:01,560 --> 02:15:06,119 done when they said our peak times at Welch and I believe 2881 02:15:06,119 --> 02:15:08,119 Avenue B. 2882 02:15:08,119 --> 02:15:13,989 I came down there about three weeks ago after school had 2883 02:15:13,989 --> 02:15:20,199 started going east on Hickory, leaving CVS out their back 2884 02:15:20,199 --> 02:15:29,140 way, got the light at B. There was a bus that stops south 2885 02:15:29,140 --> 02:15:31,000 there. 2886 02:15:31,000 --> 02:15:34,529 He turned the corner in front of me. He goes down and stops 2887 02:15:34,529 --> 02:15:38,220 at Fry Street. There's two lanes of traffic that cannot get 2888 02:15:38,220 --> 02:15:43,909 through. I waited for three lights at Fry Street. And we 2889 02:15:43,909 --> 02:15:45,199 don't even have this. 2890 02:15:45,199 --> 02:15:48,979 So my problem is not with their project. It's with the 2891 02:15:48,979 --> 02:15:52,760 traffic that it is going to cause. And he said they're 2892 02:15:52,760 --> 02:15:56,800 going to have bicycles. There are no bicycle lanes on Oak 2893 02:15:56,800 --> 02:16:00,770 and Hickory Street. They don't even start until you get 2894 02:16:00,770 --> 02:16:02,399 west of Avenue B. 2895 02:16:02,399 --> 02:16:05,550 And even if they had bicycle lanes like they do on Alice 2896 02:16:05,550 --> 02:16:08,699 when I went down today and they were using the full lane 2897 02:16:08,699 --> 02:16:12,130 because they're allowed to use the full lane, you can't go 2898 02:16:12,130 --> 02:16:13,079 anywhere. 2899 02:16:13,079 --> 02:16:19,380 So there is a real problem because high schoolers have 2900 02:16:19,380 --> 02:16:24,819 their own cars. So definitely college kids have their own 2901 02:16:24,819 --> 02:16:25,520 cars. 2902 02:16:25,520 --> 02:16:29,949 And maybe their study has shows that in the Austin area, 2903 02:16:29,949 --> 02:16:34,459 because there are a lot of people from around Austin, they 2904 02:16:34,459 --> 02:16:40,120 can take the bus from their little suburbs into the area. 2905 02:16:40,120 --> 02:16:44,739 People here are commuting in. It's too far for them not to 2906 02:16:44,739 --> 02:16:48,690 have a car. So I really object to that. I don't think a 2907 02:16:48,690 --> 02:16:51,319 variant should be allowed for this. 2908 02:16:51,319 --> 02:16:55,459 And I think until we get this complete overlay for Fry 2909 02:16:55,459 --> 02:16:59,850 Street, complete and know what we really need there and a 2910 02:16:59,850 --> 02:17:04,120 traffic impact study, that this cannot go forward. 2911 02:17:04,120 --> 02:17:07,989 And I have nothing against these people. I mean, there's a 2912 02:17:07,989 --> 02:17:11,649 quality company. But I just truly object because of the 2913 02:17:11,649 --> 02:17:12,559 traffic. 2914 02:17:12,559 --> 02:17:16,430 Before you go, we have a question for you. Commissioner 2915 02:17:16,430 --> 02:17:16,719 Beck. 2916 02:17:16,719 --> 02:17:19,379 Thank you, Chair. Thank you, Darlene, for coming down and 2917 02:17:19,379 --> 02:17:22,319 speaking on this. And I appreciate your insights on the 2918 02:17:22,319 --> 02:17:25,239 traffic condition you experienced that day. 2919 02:17:25,239 --> 02:17:28,329 Let me ask you, this traffic is a big concern, but parking 2920 02:17:28,329 --> 02:17:31,360 too. What were parking conditions like that day on Hickory 2921 02:17:31,360 --> 02:17:31,959 and Oak? 2922 02:17:31,959 --> 02:17:37,159 Well, they were parked, you know, in every metered parking 2923 02:17:37,159 --> 02:17:38,680 there was a car. 2924 02:17:38,680 --> 02:17:42,319 I live on Oak Street, which only allows parking on the 2925 02:17:42,319 --> 02:17:45,489 south side of the street. And they say this will have a 2926 02:17:45,489 --> 02:17:46,360 private drive. 2927 02:17:46,360 --> 02:17:51,370 I have a private drive. I can't get out of my private drive 2928 02:17:51,370 --> 02:17:51,760 . 2929 02:17:51,760 --> 02:17:57,260 The other morning, I waited for 16 cars to go past my 2930 02:17:57,260 --> 02:18:00,200 private drive to back out. 2931 02:18:00,200 --> 02:18:04,200 So I can't see that additional traffic is going to improve. 2932 02:18:04,200 --> 02:18:05,079 That's the other thing. 2933 02:18:05,079 --> 02:18:11,739 This is supposed to be a compatible university neighborhood 2934 02:18:11,739 --> 02:18:15,000 overlay. And I don't see this being compatible. 2935 02:18:15,000 --> 02:18:18,229 I don't think there's enough green space in that area. We 2936 02:18:18,229 --> 02:18:24,059 're we're creating the Grand Canyon down there with cars 2937 02:18:24,059 --> 02:18:27,040 instead of watercraft. 2938 02:18:27,040 --> 02:18:30,750 OK, one earth question. Commissioner Roseau. Thank you, 2939 02:18:30,750 --> 02:18:32,399 Chair. Thank you for being here and giving testimony. 2940 02:18:32,399 --> 02:18:35,520 I have a question. You live to the east of campus, correct? 2941 02:18:35,520 --> 02:18:38,840 I do. So you have all the traffic going to the campus. 2942 02:18:38,840 --> 02:18:45,120 All the traffic. In terms of. Not only. Go ahead. Vehicle. 2943 02:18:45,120 --> 02:18:49,079 We have lots of pedestrian traffic. Sure. Sure. Yeah. 2944 02:18:49,079 --> 02:18:52,530 My question is in terms of the staff mentioned it 2945 02:18:52,530 --> 02:18:57,559 previously, the parking induces cars if there's 200 spots, 2946 02:18:57,559 --> 02:18:58,479 then 200 cars. 2947 02:18:58,479 --> 02:19:01,219 No, they can have a parking spot. If you increase that to 2948 02:19:01,219 --> 02:19:05,360 300 cars, do you not see an additional 100 cars then more 2949 02:19:05,360 --> 02:19:05,920 on Oak? 2950 02:19:05,920 --> 02:19:09,610 Or how do you can provide insight to that? Double deck them 2951 02:19:09,610 --> 02:19:11,399 . I don't know where they're going to go. 2952 02:19:11,399 --> 02:19:14,059 Not in terms of parking time, but would would increasing 2953 02:19:14,059 --> 02:19:16,549 the number of parking spots increase traffic on your street 2954 02:19:16,549 --> 02:19:16,840 ? 2955 02:19:16,840 --> 02:19:21,799 Of course. But you're in favor of adding parking spots. I'm 2956 02:19:21,799 --> 02:19:24,920 just trying to understand the impact to you personally on 2957 02:19:24,920 --> 02:19:25,280 that. 2958 02:19:25,280 --> 02:19:32,079 Add 300 residents to that one point seven acres. I have an 2959 02:19:32,079 --> 02:19:35,600 80 acre farm. I know how big one point seven acres is. 2960 02:19:35,600 --> 02:19:42,510 It's not big. That is an incredible amount of my pads and 2961 02:19:42,510 --> 02:19:47,520 vehicles for one point seven acres. Sure. 2962 02:19:47,520 --> 02:19:54,659 You know, this this project should be in a high traffic 2963 02:19:54,659 --> 02:19:58,120 urban area. And it's not. 2964 02:19:58,120 --> 02:20:02,239 It is because university is across the street from Hickory, 2965 02:20:02,239 --> 02:20:06,190 but across the street from Oak, it's a residential area, 2966 02:20:06,190 --> 02:20:06,959 folks. 2967 02:20:06,959 --> 02:20:11,979 So this isn't to me compatible, you know, with with the 2968 02:20:11,979 --> 02:20:14,159 size of the project. 2969 02:20:14,159 --> 02:20:18,030 And I know they reduced it. I was here before. And I think 2970 02:20:18,030 --> 02:20:19,959 they did a fairly good job. 2971 02:20:19,959 --> 02:20:24,100 But I'm a tell the city figures out how we can manage the 2972 02:20:24,100 --> 02:20:28,200 vehicles that we have in the parking in this city and do a 2973 02:20:28,200 --> 02:20:31,959 really in depth study and do a traffic impact study. 2974 02:20:31,959 --> 02:20:34,299 I think you would be floored at the amount of traffic that 2975 02:20:34,299 --> 02:20:39,680 's on that street. Sure. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. 2976 02:20:39,680 --> 02:20:47,399 Have Mary Anderson to be followed by Jeff Paula. 2977 02:20:47,399 --> 02:20:50,909 So only three minutes they get to all right. Mary Anderson, 2978 02:20:50,909 --> 02:20:52,600 nine twenty four West Oak. 2979 02:20:52,600 --> 02:20:56,149 I am against this because of density and parking and 2980 02:20:56,149 --> 02:20:58,889 traffic. They can build a building that is higher than 2981 02:20:58,889 --> 02:21:00,319 anything else now in the area. 2982 02:21:00,319 --> 02:21:03,479 Absolutely the highest thing that will be there because it 2983 02:21:03,479 --> 02:21:04,879 's above what's given. 2984 02:21:04,879 --> 02:21:08,430 But the parking is horrible. I also live on. I live even 2985 02:21:08,430 --> 02:21:10,079 closer than Darlene. 2986 02:21:10,079 --> 02:21:12,840 And it's often that I sit and wait and wait and I can't get 2987 02:21:12,840 --> 02:21:13,239 out. 2988 02:21:13,239 --> 02:21:16,340 And the bicycles do hog the road along with the buses and 2989 02:21:16,340 --> 02:21:19,469 everything else just because you believe they won't park 2990 02:21:19,469 --> 02:21:19,959 there. 2991 02:21:19,959 --> 02:21:23,700 This isn't Austin. Keep calling us UT. It's UNT. I work at 2992 02:21:23,700 --> 02:21:26,239 a university. I won't specify. 2993 02:21:26,239 --> 02:21:29,680 But students like their cars. They need to get to work so 2994 02:21:29,680 --> 02:21:31,280 they can pay the bills. 2995 02:21:31,280 --> 02:21:33,479 So not only they go to class, they're not always partying. 2996 02:21:33,479 --> 02:21:35,399 Believe it or not, they actually work to pay. 2997 02:21:35,399 --> 02:21:38,200 So they need a car to get to work and a car to get home. 2998 02:21:38,200 --> 02:21:40,540 And the girlfriends and the boyfriends come over and there 2999 02:21:40,540 --> 02:21:42,639 's no accounting that they only rent to one bed. 3000 02:21:42,639 --> 02:21:45,360 But I, you know, it could be a double bed, right? So there 3001 02:21:45,360 --> 02:21:48,280 could be even more people there. Six hundred people there. 3002 02:21:48,280 --> 02:21:51,659 That's a lot of cars. There are many times I can't get out 3003 02:21:51,659 --> 02:21:53,159 of my house very easily. 3004 02:21:53,159 --> 02:21:56,250 We need to have better than I think or I believe. I want to 3005 02:21:56,250 --> 02:21:58,879 thank you, Mr. Hudsworth, for asking for data. 3006 02:21:58,879 --> 02:22:02,049 I really appreciate that because I'm tired of I believe. I 3007 02:22:02,049 --> 02:22:05,360 'm a scientist. I must show data or I'm left out of here. 3008 02:22:05,360 --> 02:22:08,239 I can believe the moon is made of green cheese, but they 3009 02:22:08,239 --> 02:22:10,040 would laugh me out of science. 3010 02:22:10,040 --> 02:22:12,190 I am laughing at their data because they're not showing it 3011 02:22:12,190 --> 02:22:15,930 proprietary. But believe me, trust me, I've heard that 3012 02:22:15,930 --> 02:22:16,840 before. 3013 02:22:16,840 --> 02:22:21,559 They say that on 33 North Apartments that on January 6th, 3014 02:22:21,559 --> 02:22:23,719 they weren't full. School didn't start till the 21st. I 3015 02:22:23,719 --> 02:22:24,840 know. I teach. 3016 02:22:24,840 --> 02:22:27,600 So that's a joke. They can fill those spaces. They're 3017 02:22:27,600 --> 02:22:30,280 picking their data. It's a phony data set. 3018 02:22:30,280 --> 02:22:33,340 Please have an independent study of traffic, not on the 3019 02:22:33,340 --> 02:22:35,959 summers, not during exam week when the students are home 3020 02:22:35,959 --> 02:22:39,559 studying and only a few come into campus to take things. 3021 02:22:39,559 --> 02:22:41,670 You know, ask some people in the university. They cite the 3022 02:22:41,670 --> 02:22:42,319 university. 3023 02:22:42,319 --> 02:22:44,309 Has there been a piece of paper that says the university 3024 02:22:44,309 --> 02:22:47,280 needs this? The university is in the business of running 3025 02:22:47,280 --> 02:22:48,440 their own housing. 3026 02:22:48,440 --> 02:22:51,229 This is a nice profit making thing. I have no problem. But 3027 02:22:51,229 --> 02:22:54,260 they don't live here. They don't see the traffic I deal 3028 02:22:54,260 --> 02:22:54,680 with. 3029 02:22:54,680 --> 02:22:56,649 They don't see all of that. And there's going to be more 3030 02:22:56,649 --> 02:22:58,649 traffic. I don't care whether you cut down the number of 3031 02:22:58,649 --> 02:22:59,399 parking spaces. 3032 02:22:59,399 --> 02:23:02,559 Just means I'm going to call a tow truck more often so I 3033 02:23:02,559 --> 02:23:04,399 can get out of my driveway. 3034 02:23:04,399 --> 02:23:07,750 And, you know, it's supposed to be an overlay that enhances 3035 02:23:07,750 --> 02:23:11,299 . It's supposed to be a gradual transition. This project is 3036 02:23:11,299 --> 02:23:12,159 neither one. 3037 02:23:12,159 --> 02:23:15,399 Make it smaller. Provide parking. Don't be a burden to your 3038 02:23:15,399 --> 02:23:18,559 neighbors. You can still make a profit. It may not be 200 3039 02:23:18,559 --> 02:23:19,520 percent a year. 3040 02:23:19,520 --> 02:23:22,639 It might only be 20 percent a year, but I'd be pretty happy 3041 02:23:22,639 --> 02:23:23,319 with that. 3042 02:23:23,319 --> 02:23:25,979 And please don't fear that they'll go away. They won't go 3043 02:23:25,979 --> 02:23:27,200 away. They'll come back. 3044 02:23:27,200 --> 02:23:29,290 Somebody else will buy this and put up something else and 3045 02:23:29,290 --> 02:23:32,200 we'll be going through this again. Get it right. Wait until 3046 02:23:32,200 --> 02:23:34,079 we have a decent overlay. 3047 02:23:34,079 --> 02:23:37,399 There is no rush. You know, we don't live in the heart of 3048 02:23:37,399 --> 02:23:41,319 Austin where everything is rush, rush, rush. This is debt. 3049 02:23:41,319 --> 02:23:41,920 Thank you. 3050 02:23:41,920 --> 02:23:48,639 Thank you. Questions? No questions. Thank you, ma'am. 3051 02:23:48,639 --> 02:23:54,760 Jeff Paula to be followed by looks like Kerry McKibbin. 3052 02:23:54,760 --> 02:23:58,280 Jeff Pala from 716 West Oak Street. Thank you all for your 3053 02:23:58,280 --> 02:24:01,840 time being here tonight. This is a really important topic 3054 02:24:01,840 --> 02:24:02,440 for me. 3055 02:24:02,440 --> 02:24:06,440 I am my wife and I are raising our two young children on an 3056 02:24:06,440 --> 02:24:10,209 already busy Oak Street, a highly traveled Oak Street, high 3057 02:24:10,209 --> 02:24:12,319 density of cars, frequent travel. 3058 02:24:12,319 --> 02:24:15,379 I have a hard time getting out of my driveway as well. The 3059 02:24:15,379 --> 02:24:19,120 density of this project is what concerns me most. 3060 02:24:19,120 --> 02:24:22,510 The three hundred and thirty beds and the lack of parking. 3061 02:24:22,510 --> 02:24:26,239 If you live here as you do, if you travel down to that area 3062 02:24:26,239 --> 02:24:28,760 and you try to park, you can't find parking. 3063 02:24:28,760 --> 02:24:30,870 There's no adequate parking and there's no way to say the 3064 02:24:30,870 --> 02:24:33,040 college kids are not going to bring their cars and they're 3065 02:24:33,040 --> 02:24:34,799 going to bike and they're going to Uber. 3066 02:24:34,799 --> 02:24:39,079 That's just not reality. This is just not reality. You know 3067 02:24:39,079 --> 02:24:41,799 , the height of the building. Fine. Looks OK. 3068 02:24:41,799 --> 02:24:45,700 It does have a large lack of green space. I mean, it is it 3069 02:24:45,700 --> 02:24:49,739 is it is concrete jungle, which is not really a good 3070 02:24:49,739 --> 02:24:54,610 transition from the Oak Hickory neighborhood to the 3071 02:24:54,610 --> 02:24:56,760 facility. 3072 02:24:56,760 --> 02:24:59,649 I think many things have already been said, but the density 3073 02:24:59,649 --> 02:25:00,879 is is is disturbing. 3074 02:25:00,879 --> 02:25:04,870 The density is too much and the lack of parking is is laugh 3075 02:25:04,870 --> 02:25:08,799 able. It's inadequate. Thank you. 3076 02:25:08,799 --> 02:25:16,010 No questions. Thank you, sir. Carrie McKibbin, followed by 3077 02:25:16,010 --> 02:25:19,200 Brent at thirteen, fourteen Hickory. 3078 02:25:19,200 --> 02:25:22,409 Can't read your last name there. So Brent will be next. 3079 02:25:22,409 --> 02:25:25,959 Carrie, I'm Kim. I'm Kim McKibbin. And other than Brent, I 3080 02:25:25,959 --> 02:25:29,139 probably have more invested in this anything because I own 3081 02:25:29,139 --> 02:25:31,600 the building in the business at thirteen oh six. 3082 02:25:31,600 --> 02:25:37,440 Wex history. It's pretty interesting how the statistics 3083 02:25:37,440 --> 02:25:40,680 have been presented when the studies have been done. 3084 02:25:40,680 --> 02:25:43,850 Yes, there were lots of concerns about height because they 3085 02:25:43,850 --> 02:25:46,379 'll put my building in the dark most of the time, 3086 02:25:46,379 --> 02:25:49,590 particularly in the winter when it snows real hard. You 3087 02:25:49,590 --> 02:25:52,090 know, that driveway that they're talking about that's two 3088 02:25:52,090 --> 02:25:52,760 lanes wide. 3089 02:25:52,760 --> 02:25:56,299 That's going to be an issue if all I can address is the 3090 02:25:56,299 --> 02:25:59,239 density, the parking and the height. 3091 02:25:59,239 --> 02:26:01,700 Is that basically what we're basically can address whatever 3092 02:26:01,700 --> 02:26:03,440 you like? Those are the things that we can. 3093 02:26:03,440 --> 02:26:06,409 I have spoken to the city council. I came and asked them to 3094 02:26:06,409 --> 02:26:09,219 grant no variances to the five street overlay for any new 3095 02:26:09,219 --> 02:26:12,059 construction in the area for all the reasons that you've 3096 02:26:12,059 --> 02:26:13,159 heard tonight. 3097 02:26:13,159 --> 02:26:17,829 And if you look at the original thing, the purpose and 3098 02:26:17,829 --> 02:26:21,030 intent of the overlay district is to promote the public's 3099 02:26:21,030 --> 02:26:24,809 peace, safety, cleanliness and general welfare for 3100 02:26:24,809 --> 02:26:29,360 community members and patrons of the five street district 3101 02:26:29,360 --> 02:26:32,840 for providing for regulations on off street and remote 3102 02:26:32,840 --> 02:26:33,360 parking. 3103 02:26:33,600 --> 02:26:36,680 The location of solid waste containers and the regulation 3104 02:26:36,680 --> 02:26:40,319 of signs sets back and residential and commercial density. 3105 02:26:41,079 --> 02:26:42,950 This apartment building is going to be denser than just 3106 02:26:42,950 --> 02:26:44,879 about anything we've got out there. 3107 02:26:45,079 --> 02:26:47,909 I'm pleased to know that he has reduced their prices from 3108 02:26:47,909 --> 02:26:50,930 seven hundred ninety nine dollars a month per bedroom to 3109 02:26:50,930 --> 02:26:53,680 what he's saying now was six hundred and fifty. 3110 02:26:53,959 --> 02:26:56,930 I think the initial contact that we had, that was what the 3111 02:26:56,930 --> 02:26:59,559 price was, was seven ninety nine a month. 3112 02:27:00,040 --> 02:27:02,129 And so they've changed their mind on that. That's nice for 3113 02:27:02,129 --> 02:27:02,920 the students. 3114 02:27:04,079 --> 02:27:06,879 Also, the beautiful outlay that you're seeing does not 3115 02:27:06,879 --> 02:27:10,850 include the area buildings when they compare to the five 3116 02:27:10,850 --> 02:27:13,399 street or the sterling complex. 3117 02:27:13,680 --> 02:27:17,120 They have to realize that that was built on an empty block. 3118 02:27:17,559 --> 02:27:20,790 They're wanting to build this building taller than any 3119 02:27:20,790 --> 02:27:24,799 other building that's out there, not on a block by itself, 3120 02:27:24,799 --> 02:27:28,719 but in a block that contains my building, my tenants, our 3121 02:27:28,719 --> 02:27:32,920 neighbors, a house that set up into apartments, a church. 3122 02:27:33,799 --> 02:27:36,680 These are all on that side of the thing. 3123 02:27:36,680 --> 02:27:40,159 So they are not developing by themselves in isolation. 3124 02:27:40,600 --> 02:27:43,120 The impact they're going to have is phenomenal for parking. 3125 02:27:43,600 --> 02:27:46,920 What they're not telling you is that currently there is 3126 02:27:46,920 --> 02:27:51,170 approximately sixty one parking spaces in the Vortman lot, 3127 02:27:51,170 --> 02:27:55,059 in the subway lot and in the adjacent place that used to be 3128 02:27:55,059 --> 02:27:56,440 a sushi place. 3129 02:27:57,079 --> 02:27:58,079 Sixty one spots. 3130 02:27:58,079 --> 02:28:01,229 Now, if they if you take out the additional six public 3131 02:28:01,229 --> 02:28:04,590 places that are going to be in front of the retail entrance 3132 02:28:04,590 --> 02:28:07,159 thing so they can get the cars in and out. 3133 02:28:07,680 --> 02:28:11,540 Plus, then the other six free spots on Oak Street, you've 3134 02:28:11,540 --> 02:28:15,760 got a fairly high number of public parking spaces you're 3135 02:28:15,760 --> 02:28:17,159 going to leave. 3136 02:28:17,479 --> 02:28:19,920 I also have some problems with someone's math here. 3137 02:28:20,639 --> 02:28:24,489 The scale shows twelve thousand seven hundred square feet 3138 02:28:24,489 --> 02:28:28,209 and the current overlay says that for every four hundred 3139 02:28:28,209 --> 02:28:31,840 square feet you have to have one space for commercial. 3140 02:28:32,319 --> 02:28:34,520 That means they're missing thirty one point seventy five 3141 02:28:34,520 --> 02:28:37,200 spaces in addition to what they've already told you. 3142 02:28:41,559 --> 02:28:42,520 Ask me questions. 3143 02:28:43,159 --> 02:28:44,360 I've been here every meeting. 3144 02:28:45,799 --> 02:28:46,440 No questions. 3145 02:28:47,040 --> 02:28:47,520 Thank you, ma'am. 3146 02:28:47,520 --> 02:28:48,040 Thank you. 3147 02:28:49,879 --> 02:28:52,639 Brent, followed by Helen Dewey. 3148 02:28:56,239 --> 02:28:57,319 My name is Brent Erskine. 3149 02:28:57,360 --> 02:29:00,959 I am the owner of Burtman's thirteen fourteen West Hickory. 3150 02:29:02,559 --> 02:29:05,600 I do understand that there is a parking issue. 3151 02:29:06,040 --> 02:29:08,700 I'm partners in eight other stores across the country and I 3152 02:29:08,700 --> 02:29:11,600 can assure you there is a parking issue at every single one 3153 02:29:11,600 --> 02:29:14,239 of those being next to a university of that size. 3154 02:29:14,239 --> 02:29:16,899 That is what comes with the territory and living that close 3155 02:29:16,899 --> 02:29:17,760 to a university. 3156 02:29:19,280 --> 02:29:21,200 I will say, though, at six a.m. 3157 02:29:21,319 --> 02:29:23,979 when I get to work in the mornings and you go down Oak, 3158 02:29:23,979 --> 02:29:26,940 there are no cars parked along the street with the 3159 02:29:26,940 --> 02:29:30,059 exception of some of the small houses that have been 3160 02:29:30,059 --> 02:29:32,479 chopped up by some of their neighbors and turns into 3161 02:29:32,479 --> 02:29:33,479 apartment complexes. 3162 02:29:34,559 --> 02:29:36,709 That's the only place that you'll see cars parked along the 3163 02:29:36,709 --> 02:29:37,360 street. 3164 02:29:37,680 --> 02:29:40,000 So the students that are living in the youth center that 3165 02:29:40,000 --> 02:29:42,700 live in the youth center are not parking along the street 3166 02:29:42,700 --> 02:29:44,840 when they're in their beds at six a.m. 3167 02:29:44,840 --> 02:29:46,879 because we all know kids are in their beds at six a.m. 3168 02:29:46,879 --> 02:29:48,000 They're not getting up early. 3169 02:29:49,440 --> 02:29:52,409 I will also say that as an employer of over one hundred 3170 02:29:52,409 --> 02:29:57,409 students, there are many of those students that do not have 3171 02:29:57,409 --> 02:29:58,239 cars. 3172 02:29:58,239 --> 02:30:01,360 I know that it's hard to fathom coming from many of us that 3173 02:30:01,360 --> 02:30:04,639 are probably middle class that most kids have cars, but we 3174 02:30:04,639 --> 02:30:07,780 do have several employees that don't have vehicles that 3175 02:30:07,780 --> 02:30:11,069 they carpool with their friends and they do live in student 3176 02:30:11,069 --> 02:30:14,219 student housing complexes even farther away from youth 3177 02:30:14,219 --> 02:30:16,760 center or thirty three degrees north. 3178 02:30:17,319 --> 02:30:20,079 They carpool from some of the ones out by Chuck E. Cheese. 3179 02:30:20,319 --> 02:30:24,579 So that is not maybe as uncommon coming from the middle 3180 02:30:24,579 --> 02:30:28,879 class family that every kid has a car as UNT is not the 3181 02:30:28,879 --> 02:30:32,239 most expensive place to go to school. 3182 02:30:32,239 --> 02:30:34,239 And there are other kids of other demographics going to 3183 02:30:34,239 --> 02:30:34,680 school. 3184 02:30:36,799 --> 02:30:39,680 Those are the comments that I had a question before you go. 3185 02:30:39,920 --> 02:30:40,639 Commissioner Beck. 3186 02:30:40,680 --> 02:30:41,239 Thank you, Chair. 3187 02:30:41,719 --> 02:30:43,629 These people that work for you, though, they live in them, 3188 02:30:43,629 --> 02:30:44,079 right? 3189 02:30:44,319 --> 02:30:47,319 So their parents do not live in didn't know. 3190 02:30:47,760 --> 02:30:50,420 Okay, they live in didn't because they go to school and 3191 02:30:50,420 --> 02:30:50,920 didn't. 3192 02:30:51,879 --> 02:30:55,280 Okay, but they do not live in didn't with their parents. 3193 02:30:55,280 --> 02:30:58,000 They live in some of these student apartment complexes. 3194 02:30:58,559 --> 02:30:58,879 Gotcha. 3195 02:30:59,000 --> 02:30:59,360 Thank you. 3196 02:30:59,600 --> 02:31:00,000 You're welcome. 3197 02:31:00,879 --> 02:31:01,239 Thank you. 3198 02:31:01,319 --> 02:31:02,520 No other further questions. 3199 02:31:03,120 --> 02:31:05,319 This is a I'm sorry. 3200 02:31:05,440 --> 02:31:06,799 I've got a couple more that just popped up. 3201 02:31:06,840 --> 02:31:07,399 Apologize. 3202 02:31:09,440 --> 02:31:10,079 Commissioner Hudge. 3203 02:31:12,239 --> 02:31:14,920 Yeah, so unique perspective, right? 3204 02:31:14,920 --> 02:31:18,639 So for you, how like what do you look? 3205 02:31:18,639 --> 02:31:19,680 What are the changes? 3206 02:31:20,399 --> 02:31:23,799 How do the changes affect your business? 3207 02:31:23,799 --> 02:31:25,280 What what do you look forward to? 3208 02:31:25,559 --> 02:31:29,100 What what impact do you see coming if this is allowed or if 3209 02:31:29,100 --> 02:31:30,159 it's built? 3210 02:31:30,200 --> 02:31:33,120 I think it cleans up the area as the owner of the property. 3211 02:31:33,360 --> 02:31:35,719 I think it could be enhanced. 3212 02:31:36,319 --> 02:31:39,120 We're at a crossing point to where we either try and sell 3213 02:31:39,120 --> 02:31:41,549 it to somebody that can bring more traffic to the 3214 02:31:41,549 --> 02:31:45,520 businesses in the area by adding beds. 3215 02:31:46,280 --> 02:31:49,250 If I could buy into Mike's coffee, I would definitely love 3216 02:31:49,250 --> 02:31:49,879 to do that. 3217 02:31:49,879 --> 02:31:51,899 And she's going to have 300 new customers sitting right 3218 02:31:51,899 --> 02:31:52,440 next to her. 3219 02:31:53,120 --> 02:31:54,920 I'm sure that their business flow will come up. 3220 02:31:55,239 --> 02:31:58,709 So as a business owner myself, I would be loved to have 300 3221 02:31:58,709 --> 02:32:01,280 new customers right above my business. 3222 02:32:01,639 --> 02:32:02,600 It cleans up the area. 3223 02:32:02,600 --> 02:32:04,819 It makes it look nicer with the newer building, not a 3224 02:32:04,819 --> 02:32:06,159 building that I 3225 02:32:06,159 --> 02:32:09,010 know some people want to say that it's historic, but it's 3226 02:32:09,010 --> 02:32:11,639 actually been added on to six different times. 3227 02:32:11,639 --> 02:32:15,450 And it has it's there's nothing historic about it besides 3228 02:32:15,450 --> 02:32:18,819 the name itself, which is which we want to preserve as 3229 02:32:18,819 --> 02:32:19,920 times change. 3230 02:32:19,920 --> 02:32:21,479 And we are not what Mr. 3231 02:32:21,479 --> 02:32:25,079 Verman had it with all of the fine gifts in China that he 3232 02:32:25,079 --> 02:32:26,799 used to have in there. 3233 02:32:26,959 --> 02:32:27,799 The times have changed. 3234 02:32:27,799 --> 02:32:30,219 We have to condense down in order to make sure that we 3235 02:32:30,219 --> 02:32:31,280 ensure viability. 3236 02:32:32,000 --> 02:32:33,120 Big boxes out. 3237 02:32:33,120 --> 02:32:35,239 I look at what Walmart you can go across the board. 3238 02:32:35,239 --> 02:32:36,360 They're getting smaller. 3239 02:32:36,360 --> 02:32:39,159 We have to do the same thing to make sure that we maintain 3240 02:32:39,159 --> 02:32:41,799 our business and the vermin's name continues on. 3241 02:32:43,719 --> 02:32:47,239 If I may continue and how are your sales? 3242 02:32:48,680 --> 02:32:51,079 Great. They're down. 3243 02:32:51,319 --> 02:32:55,760 We took it over and we took it over in 2013 and our sales 3244 02:32:55,760 --> 02:32:58,409 have done nothing but grown every year since we've taken it 3245 02:32:58,409 --> 02:32:58,639 over. 3246 02:32:59,319 --> 02:33:01,479 And you attribute that to more students more. 3247 02:33:01,799 --> 02:33:05,010 It's it's easily accessible that that sort of thing that it 3248 02:33:05,010 --> 02:33:06,840 's always it's been in the same location. 3249 02:33:06,840 --> 02:33:08,440 So location doesn't have anything to do with it. 3250 02:33:09,079 --> 02:33:11,500 I'd like you to think that it was myself and my staff was 3251 02:33:11,500 --> 02:33:13,040 what I'd like to think. 3252 02:33:13,920 --> 02:33:16,959 And having an owner actually on site and giving a personal 3253 02:33:16,959 --> 02:33:20,239 customer experience is what we like to hope. 3254 02:33:20,879 --> 02:33:22,250 Even some of the folks that are opposing, I think they'd 3255 02:33:22,250 --> 02:33:23,760 say that we're friendly neighbors. 3256 02:33:23,920 --> 02:33:25,280 OK. And one last thing. 3257 02:33:25,319 --> 02:33:28,920 Sure. So the parking in back that that's a valid point. 3258 02:33:28,959 --> 02:33:30,920 What is give me a day in the life of your parking lot. 3259 02:33:30,959 --> 02:33:33,719 Sure. It's it's it's during the first week of school, we 3260 02:33:33,719 --> 02:33:35,559 actually pay people to sit out in the parking lot to keep 3261 02:33:35,559 --> 02:33:36,719 customers from parking there. 3262 02:33:37,319 --> 02:33:39,479 It's definitely not you send our custom people parking in 3263 02:33:39,479 --> 02:33:40,079 our lot. 3264 02:33:40,399 --> 02:33:42,040 It's commuters that are parking in our lot. 3265 02:33:42,959 --> 02:33:44,600 So we definitely that is a problem. 3266 02:33:44,639 --> 02:33:45,719 There's no doubt about that. 3267 02:33:46,559 --> 02:33:50,200 But I don't know that this is going to add to the problem. 3268 02:33:50,200 --> 02:33:51,440 They say that it adds to it. 3269 02:33:51,479 --> 02:33:52,959 But there's nowhere else to park on the street. 3270 02:33:53,159 --> 02:33:56,129 There's nowhere else that can't get any worse than what it 3271 02:33:56,129 --> 02:33:56,520 is. 3272 02:33:56,600 --> 02:34:00,120 There's already parking on every single space. 3273 02:34:00,760 --> 02:34:04,899 During school hours outside of school hours, you're not it 3274 02:34:04,899 --> 02:34:06,520 's like I said, 6 a.m. 3275 02:34:06,559 --> 02:34:08,200 I have a video on my phone at 6 a.m. 3276 02:34:08,239 --> 02:34:09,809 I drove down there, took video, probably shouldn't have 3277 02:34:09,809 --> 02:34:10,360 been doing it. 3278 02:34:10,399 --> 02:34:13,059 But there's there's nothing there's no cars parked there 3279 02:34:13,059 --> 02:34:15,239 except that these chopped up apartments. 3280 02:34:15,920 --> 02:34:18,079 So is it bad? 3281 02:34:18,120 --> 02:34:20,430 Yes. But it's the commuters coming into town to go to class 3282 02:34:20,430 --> 02:34:22,360 there, not the people who live in the area. 3283 02:34:23,159 --> 02:34:24,760 Thank you. Another question for you. 3284 02:34:25,319 --> 02:34:26,559 And we didn't get for the record. 3285 02:34:26,600 --> 02:34:28,239 Were you in favor or opposed? 3286 02:34:28,680 --> 02:34:29,639 In favor. In favor. 3287 02:34:29,680 --> 02:34:31,239 Thank you. Commissioner Dudowitz. 3288 02:34:31,799 --> 02:34:33,120 Some more clarification, please. 3289 02:34:33,520 --> 02:34:35,040 Your business is existing today. 3290 02:34:35,719 --> 02:34:36,719 Do you own the property? 3291 02:34:36,799 --> 02:34:37,120 Yes, sir. 3292 02:34:37,920 --> 02:34:41,680 And you're in favor of selling it to the developer? 3293 02:34:42,200 --> 02:34:43,040 Yes, sir. We will sell it. 3294 02:34:43,040 --> 02:34:44,959 We will sell the property to the developer. 3295 02:34:45,479 --> 02:34:47,719 We will move off. 3296 02:34:47,840 --> 02:34:50,500 We will move to a temporary location, much like the 3297 02:34:50,500 --> 02:34:53,120 university bookstore did recently with their renovations. 3298 02:34:53,520 --> 02:34:56,559 We will then move back into the new location where we will 3299 02:34:56,559 --> 02:34:58,680 own our space in that building. 3300 02:34:59,920 --> 02:35:00,600 Lease it or own it? 3301 02:35:00,879 --> 02:35:01,200 Own it. 3302 02:35:01,600 --> 02:35:03,879 OK. So you'll cut it out and you'll own the space. 3303 02:35:04,120 --> 02:35:07,309 Yes, sir. So the nearly 12,000 square feet on that bottom 3304 02:35:07,309 --> 02:35:09,520 floor, we will continue to own that space. 3305 02:35:09,719 --> 02:35:13,239 And just as an aside, I drive these streets here just to 3306 02:35:13,239 --> 02:35:17,200 avoid the backup on university that's going on in this town 3307 02:35:17,200 --> 02:35:17,559 . 3308 02:35:17,600 --> 02:35:20,200 But I've been there early in the morning and late at night. 3309 02:35:20,399 --> 02:35:22,649 There is some traffic, but it's not like it is during the 3310 02:35:22,649 --> 02:35:23,040 day. 3311 02:35:23,079 --> 02:35:25,159 I admit it's kind of crazy there. 3312 02:35:25,520 --> 02:35:29,510 But you are testifying, though, that it's commuter traffic 3313 02:35:29,510 --> 02:35:32,200 more so than the residential traffic. 3314 02:35:32,239 --> 02:35:35,479 That's kind of what I want to make sure that I'm seeing and 3315 02:35:35,479 --> 02:35:39,120 hearing because the residents obviously are impacted by 3316 02:35:39,120 --> 02:35:43,360 commuter traffic, parking in their driveways and whatnot. 3317 02:35:43,799 --> 02:35:46,159 But that exists now even without this. 3318 02:35:46,399 --> 02:35:48,159 And it has been for how long have you been there? 3319 02:35:49,120 --> 02:35:52,399 I opened up a small spot called Campus Bookstore right next 3320 02:35:52,399 --> 02:35:56,159 to back in the day at Point Bank back in November 2007. 3321 02:35:56,600 --> 02:35:58,950 So I've been in that community parking on that street, 3322 02:35:58,950 --> 02:36:02,280 especially when we were there because we had no parking at 3323 02:36:02,280 --> 02:36:03,360 that location. 3324 02:36:03,360 --> 02:36:04,959 There was zero parking for our space. 3325 02:36:06,520 --> 02:36:08,559 And I would park along that street. 3326 02:36:08,559 --> 02:36:11,659 And in the mornings, there's plenty of parking there in the 3327 02:36:11,659 --> 02:36:13,200 mornings at 6, 7 a.m. 3328 02:36:13,920 --> 02:36:17,180 And I understand with 300 more potential customers, that's 3329 02:36:17,180 --> 02:36:18,159 a good thing. 3330 02:36:18,719 --> 02:36:19,920 That's never a bad thing for business. 3331 02:36:20,120 --> 02:36:21,899 If you have a business, you would like to have more 3332 02:36:21,899 --> 02:36:23,120 customers, obviously. 3333 02:36:23,120 --> 02:36:23,680 There's no question. 3334 02:36:23,680 --> 02:36:26,180 And I think that several of the business owners down there 3335 02:36:26,180 --> 02:36:27,399 have said the same thing. 3336 02:36:27,600 --> 02:36:28,000 I'm sorry? 3337 02:36:28,360 --> 02:36:28,760 Yes. 3338 02:36:28,840 --> 02:36:31,000 Businesses would prefer to have more customers. 3339 02:36:31,200 --> 02:36:31,479 Thank you. 3340 02:36:33,479 --> 02:36:34,280 No further questions. 3341 02:36:34,319 --> 02:36:34,840 Thank you, sir. 3342 02:36:36,440 --> 02:36:39,100 Helen Dewey, followed by Michelle Lin, and then I have two 3343 02:36:39,100 --> 02:36:40,200 more cards. 3344 02:36:40,200 --> 02:36:41,399 This is a public hearing. 3345 02:36:41,799 --> 02:36:44,879 So if you would like to speak, please fill out a card and 3346 02:36:44,879 --> 02:36:46,159 bring that down. 3347 02:36:46,159 --> 02:36:48,209 Or if you want to come speak afterwards, you'll need to 3348 02:36:48,209 --> 02:36:50,040 make sure and fill out a card before you leave. 3349 02:36:50,920 --> 02:36:51,440 Thank you, Helen. 3350 02:36:52,120 --> 02:36:54,040 My name is Helen Dewey Rykovsky. 3351 02:36:54,079 --> 02:36:56,319 I reside at 73 West Oak Street. 3352 02:36:56,639 --> 02:37:01,600 I do work at that named university at UNT, but I also work 3353 02:37:01,600 --> 02:37:04,159 in Dallas and I also work at First United Methodist Church. 3354 02:37:04,440 --> 02:37:08,559 So I'm very typical of a lot of people at UNT where we live 3355 02:37:08,559 --> 02:37:08,920 . 3356 02:37:09,280 --> 02:37:12,079 I walk to the university when I don't have to go to one of 3357 02:37:12,079 --> 02:37:13,120 my other jobs. 3358 02:37:13,120 --> 02:37:15,780 When I have to go to one of my other jobs, then I need to 3359 02:37:15,780 --> 02:37:17,399 have my parking space on campus. 3360 02:37:17,600 --> 02:37:19,780 And then I drive to that one and then I drive to that one 3361 02:37:19,780 --> 02:37:21,239 and then I drive home again. 3362 02:37:21,680 --> 02:37:25,149 So one of the things that I'm speaking against on this 3363 02:37:25,149 --> 02:37:30,319 proposal is because not only the density and the parking, 3364 02:37:31,000 --> 02:37:35,159 I really appreciated the question, Mr. Rosell, about if we 3365 02:37:35,159 --> 02:37:41,680 're opposed to how much traffic problem there is 3366 02:37:41,680 --> 02:37:44,799 and how much parking problem there is, why would we want to 3367 02:37:44,799 --> 02:37:50,319 say, please don't have any variances if there are 300 beds, 3368 02:37:50,719 --> 02:37:55,120 then why have 300 vehicles parked? 3369 02:37:55,680 --> 02:37:58,340 But what we need is a place for everything and everything 3370 02:37:58,340 --> 02:37:59,280 in its place. 3371 02:37:59,719 --> 02:38:03,709 If we have more people living in that area, we will have 3372 02:38:03,709 --> 02:38:06,639 more cars, whether they're owned or whether they're the 3373 02:38:06,639 --> 02:38:07,360 visitors. 3374 02:38:08,000 --> 02:38:11,040 And if we don't have a spot for each one of those cars, yes 3375 02:38:11,040 --> 02:38:12,639 , we'll have more traffic, 3376 02:38:12,719 --> 02:38:15,790 but then that traffic will be congested and not know where 3377 02:38:15,790 --> 02:38:16,319 to go. 3378 02:38:16,799 --> 02:38:19,520 So we hope that you will not change. 3379 02:38:19,559 --> 02:38:21,280 We will not have any variances. 3380 02:38:21,639 --> 02:38:25,079 We appreciate the changes that the company has made by 3381 02:38:25,079 --> 02:38:27,079 listening to the neighbors. 3382 02:38:27,559 --> 02:38:30,600 And perhaps more changes could be made because these sound 3383 02:38:30,600 --> 02:38:32,680 like they would be very good neighbors. 3384 02:38:33,000 --> 02:38:36,159 We do want development, but as has been said, this is 3385 02:38:36,159 --> 02:38:38,840 development for students at the university. 3386 02:38:39,239 --> 02:38:44,600 But that is only one of the four sides of this development. 3387 02:38:45,159 --> 02:38:48,600 And we neighbors on the east side, the more traffic that 3388 02:38:48,600 --> 02:38:51,559 comes down Oak Street and back through Hickory Street, 3389 02:38:51,920 --> 02:38:54,040 those streets are not built for that. 3390 02:38:54,360 --> 02:38:58,600 The city had a survey for parking in 1999. 3391 02:38:59,559 --> 02:39:00,840 Yes, 1999. 3392 02:39:01,120 --> 02:39:04,799 And the city survey at that time found there were 21,000 3393 02:39:04,799 --> 02:39:07,360 trips down Oak Street and back Hickory Street. 3394 02:39:07,959 --> 02:39:13,670 The I'm looking for the actual statistics because Mr. Hudsb 3395 02:39:13,670 --> 02:39:16,239 eth will want to know exactly which is exactly right. 3396 02:39:16,559 --> 02:39:17,440 What it says here. 3397 02:39:17,440 --> 02:39:22,799 So the the city decides that engineering standards used by 3398 02:39:22,799 --> 02:39:24,040 the city rate, 3399 02:39:24,319 --> 02:39:28,100 the maximum level of service for four lane divided couplet 3400 02:39:28,100 --> 02:39:31,120 at about 21,000 trips per day. 3401 02:39:31,520 --> 02:39:35,719 So as you can see in 1999, we were already at the maximum 3402 02:39:35,719 --> 02:39:39,680 amount of traffic that we could tolerate properly going up 3403 02:39:39,680 --> 02:39:40,399 and down that street. 3404 02:39:40,399 --> 02:39:41,959 It's only grown since then. 3405 02:39:42,440 --> 02:39:45,840 So the density of the project is a difficulty for us. 3406 02:39:46,200 --> 02:39:51,420 It adds the parking and the and the traffic itself is a 3407 02:39:51,420 --> 02:39:53,159 difficulty. 3408 02:39:53,760 --> 02:39:56,799 Perhaps some of the changes that could be looked at from 3409 02:39:56,799 --> 02:40:00,370 this point on, maybe with the proper one to one ratio of 3410 02:40:00,370 --> 02:40:01,159 parking, 3411 02:40:01,479 --> 02:40:04,920 maybe there would be more revenue for the business to go 3412 02:40:04,920 --> 02:40:09,350 ahead and sell that parking to commuters or to others that 3413 02:40:09,350 --> 02:40:12,239 are busy on our our neighborhood streets. 3414 02:40:12,600 --> 02:40:13,600 Do you have any questions? 3415 02:40:13,639 --> 02:40:14,639 Do you have a question for you? 3416 02:40:14,639 --> 02:40:15,520 Commissioner Oselle. 3417 02:40:15,680 --> 02:40:16,120 Thank you, sir. 3418 02:40:17,559 --> 02:40:21,040 I appreciate your insight to what's going on here. 3419 02:40:21,040 --> 02:40:24,010 I have a question. You speak about traffic, but if I 3420 02:40:24,010 --> 02:40:26,889 understood you correctly, you're OK with the increased 3421 02:40:26,889 --> 02:40:29,659 traffic or that's amenable as long as they have some place 3422 02:40:29,659 --> 02:40:30,200 to park. 3423 02:40:31,440 --> 02:40:32,920 I would not say it that way. 3424 02:40:33,040 --> 02:40:34,159 If I might restate it. 3425 02:40:34,200 --> 02:40:34,479 Sure. 3426 02:40:34,719 --> 02:40:38,370 We are troubled by the amount of traffic, but the amount of 3427 02:40:38,370 --> 02:40:42,319 traffic will only be worsened if there are not parking 3428 02:40:42,319 --> 02:40:45,600 spaces for every car that's legal to be living in the 3429 02:40:45,600 --> 02:40:46,559 neighborhood. 3430 02:40:47,120 --> 02:40:50,010 And that I know not everyone owns a car, but the students 3431 02:40:50,010 --> 02:40:53,000 that I teach at University of North Texas, they drive 3432 02:40:53,000 --> 02:40:55,000 everywhere for employment. 3433 02:40:55,360 --> 02:40:58,149 And so the students that I know from from full scholarship 3434 02:40:58,149 --> 02:41:01,680 students to whomever, whether they're middle class or not, 3435 02:41:01,680 --> 02:41:03,280 there are cars. 3436 02:41:03,760 --> 02:41:05,879 And so those cars need to have a place. 3437 02:41:06,120 --> 02:41:10,459 So the traffic is difficult and it would behoove the city 3438 02:41:10,459 --> 02:41:14,610 to look at on the west side how we can have more access to 3439 02:41:14,610 --> 02:41:17,959 the university because it's growing. 3440 02:41:17,959 --> 02:41:18,799 And that's a good thing. 3441 02:41:19,360 --> 02:41:23,079 But from the east, that's that's our neighborhood. 3442 02:41:23,239 --> 02:41:25,639 And it has as much traffic as it can handle. 3443 02:41:26,040 --> 02:41:28,700 And if you don't have parking spaces for the other cars 3444 02:41:28,700 --> 02:41:31,420 that will make because they're parking in front of our 3445 02:41:31,420 --> 02:41:32,600 houses every day. 3446 02:41:33,319 --> 02:41:35,040 And it's before eight in the morning. 3447 02:41:35,440 --> 02:41:38,319 And those are the people that can't put the money in the 3448 02:41:38,319 --> 02:41:41,469 meter on Hickory Street or don't have the parking permit on 3449 02:41:41,469 --> 02:41:42,399 the campus. 3450 02:41:43,159 --> 02:41:43,799 Sure. Thank you. 3451 02:41:45,159 --> 02:41:45,920 One other question. 3452 02:41:46,000 --> 02:41:46,920 Commissioner Hatchbuth. 3453 02:41:47,319 --> 02:41:49,159 Thank you. So just real quick question. 3454 02:41:49,200 --> 02:41:51,979 So when you're what what are your times that you're 3455 02:41:51,979 --> 02:41:55,379 normally driving to Dallas or what have you observed during 3456 02:41:55,379 --> 02:41:57,399 those times that you're driving? 3457 02:41:58,719 --> 02:42:01,239 My day job is in the College of Music. 3458 02:42:01,280 --> 02:42:03,399 My night job is at the Dallas Opera. 3459 02:42:03,719 --> 02:42:09,040 And so I'm often leaving the UNT area about five thirty. 3460 02:42:09,200 --> 02:42:12,110 Well often six o'clock until we get into further rehearsals 3461 02:42:12,110 --> 02:42:13,120 at five thirty. 3462 02:42:13,639 --> 02:42:18,360 The traffic coming north is amazing to see from Dallas. 3463 02:42:18,639 --> 02:42:23,090 So there is traffic in surges moving in and out of our 3464 02:42:23,090 --> 02:42:24,440 community. 3465 02:42:24,799 --> 02:42:27,459 It's like the people who do morning classes the people who 3466 02:42:27,459 --> 02:42:30,069 do afternoon classes the commuters who come up in the 3467 02:42:30,069 --> 02:42:33,600 evening and then go back or stay with friends. 3468 02:42:33,959 --> 02:42:35,940 Because sometimes they stay a few days and then they go 3469 02:42:35,940 --> 02:42:36,360 back. 3470 02:42:36,479 --> 02:42:39,709 So but you're leaving the Frost Street area around five or 3471 02:42:39,709 --> 02:42:40,559 so is that. 3472 02:42:40,639 --> 02:42:41,399 Did I get that right. 3473 02:42:41,440 --> 02:42:43,159 Five five five thirty very often. 3474 02:42:43,200 --> 02:42:44,399 And what is the traffic like then. 3475 02:42:45,120 --> 02:42:46,000 It's awful. 3476 02:42:46,440 --> 02:42:47,000 So give me it. 3477 02:42:47,040 --> 02:42:49,040 So you're traveling on Hickory. 3478 02:42:49,200 --> 02:42:49,600 Yes. 3479 02:42:49,840 --> 02:42:52,520 And so Hickory do you hit the Frost Street light. 3480 02:42:52,559 --> 02:42:54,860 How many times do you have to wait or give me give me a day 3481 02:42:54,860 --> 02:42:55,680 in the life of. 3482 02:42:57,479 --> 02:42:58,159 Drive anywhere. 3483 02:42:58,399 --> 02:42:59,399 Lunchtime. 3484 02:42:59,520 --> 02:43:01,319 You'll wait at least three lights. 3485 02:43:01,399 --> 02:43:01,600 OK. 3486 02:43:02,159 --> 02:43:05,479 Thank. 3487 02:43:05,520 --> 02:43:06,840 I'm just my comment. 3488 02:43:07,440 --> 02:43:07,959 Commissioner. 3489 02:43:08,000 --> 02:43:11,409 That is that anywhere in Denton from four thirty to six 3490 02:43:11,409 --> 02:43:13,079 thirty is a nightmare. 3491 02:43:13,120 --> 02:43:15,799 I mean even loop 288 takes forever to get around. 3492 02:43:16,799 --> 02:43:18,200 It's what's happening here. 3493 02:43:18,239 --> 02:43:20,200 I mean price is unusual with that. 3494 02:43:20,239 --> 02:43:21,239 But so where are the other place. 3495 02:43:21,280 --> 02:43:24,010 We have a lot of pedestrians too as you know we have a very 3496 02:43:24,010 --> 02:43:27,200 nice neighborhood to walk through and to get to the square. 3497 02:43:27,239 --> 02:43:29,239 And it's lovely to see that amount of traffic. 3498 02:43:29,280 --> 02:43:33,420 And so the density of this having more cars more people 3499 02:43:33,420 --> 02:43:37,920 there that'd be great if more people are walking downtown 3500 02:43:37,920 --> 02:43:39,239 and back again. 3501 02:43:39,520 --> 02:43:42,319 But more cars parked on the street even later at night 3502 02:43:42,319 --> 02:43:45,879 because if there are not enough spots in the indoor parking 3503 02:43:45,879 --> 02:43:48,690 garage then those residents are going to be parking on the 3504 02:43:48,690 --> 02:43:51,879 streets when the students don't need to the commuter 3505 02:43:51,879 --> 02:43:52,360 students don't need to. 3506 02:43:52,639 --> 02:43:55,680 And again that's more cars on the street. 3507 02:43:55,719 --> 02:43:59,360 It's a little bit more danger for the pedestrians. 3508 02:43:59,399 --> 02:44:02,510 You know you're crossing streets and you're walking 3509 02:44:02,510 --> 02:44:05,639 downtown and it's when we try to back out or pull out of 3510 02:44:05,639 --> 02:44:08,760 our driveways on Oak Street or on Hickory Street it's 3511 02:44:08,760 --> 02:44:12,209 really scary because you have to look past the parked cars 3512 02:44:12,209 --> 02:44:14,479 wait for the gap in the red light. 3513 02:44:14,520 --> 02:44:17,559 And then you know so we'll just have more and more of that 3514 02:44:17,559 --> 02:44:20,680 if we don't have those parked cars off the street. 3515 02:44:20,719 --> 02:44:26,680 I see no further questions. Thank you. 3516 02:44:26,719 --> 02:44:32,319 Michelle Lin followed by I can't read the first name last 3517 02:44:32,319 --> 02:44:33,680 name Hall. 3518 02:44:33,719 --> 02:44:37,840 Good evening everyone I'm Michelle Lin I'm at 1401 Egan 3519 02:44:37,840 --> 02:44:41,319 Street in Denton and I'm here tonight because our town is 3520 02:44:41,319 --> 02:44:43,680 growing and this is a good thing. 3521 02:44:43,719 --> 02:44:51,250 I support this project in certain ways. I'm glad someone is 3522 02:44:51,250 --> 02:44:53,030 interested in a strong new high quality development and I 3523 02:44:53,030 --> 02:44:53,680 like mixed use. 3524 02:44:53,719 --> 02:44:57,739 But your job as commissioners is your highest goal is going 3525 02:44:57,739 --> 02:45:00,680 to be to bring smart growth to our town. 3526 02:45:00,719 --> 02:45:04,440 The difference between being open for business and welcome 3527 02:45:04,440 --> 02:45:08,040 for growth and allowing developers to rewrite our city's 3528 02:45:08,040 --> 02:45:09,680 comprehensive plan. 3529 02:45:09,719 --> 02:45:14,350 To their own desires that 2030 plan I look at the names in 3530 02:45:14,350 --> 02:45:18,680 this commission and I see Hutzpeth and Roselle and strange 3531 02:45:18,680 --> 02:45:21,340 and Briggle and these are all families who were involved 3532 02:45:21,340 --> 02:45:22,680 with this plan at one point. 3533 02:45:22,719 --> 02:45:26,170 Our city decided after more than a year of really intense 3534 02:45:26,170 --> 02:45:29,750 collaboration from people in every part of the city that 3535 02:45:29,750 --> 02:45:32,680 this is going to be our comprehensive plan. 3536 02:45:32,719 --> 02:45:37,680 I urge you to think about potential parking problems and 3537 02:45:37,680 --> 02:45:40,680 neighborhood compatibility. 3538 02:45:40,719 --> 02:45:45,870 I am not against this building. I'm against making the 3539 02:45:45,870 --> 02:45:47,680 parking situation even worse. 3540 02:45:47,719 --> 02:45:50,379 I'm against something that is going to detract 3541 02:45:50,379 --> 02:45:53,319 significantly from the quality of life for the homeowners 3542 02:45:53,319 --> 02:45:55,680 in the university compatibility area. 3543 02:45:55,719 --> 02:45:59,750 Mr. Beck commented about tenants and where they will put 3544 02:45:59,750 --> 02:46:03,899 their cars and I'm pretty sure that 18 retail spots would 3545 02:46:03,899 --> 02:46:07,120 be used up by the people who are working in these stores 3546 02:46:07,120 --> 02:46:08,680 let alone the customers. 3547 02:46:08,719 --> 02:46:12,430 Personally I'm very vested in this area. I live a couple 3548 02:46:12,430 --> 02:46:15,680 blocks north of it in the university compatibility area. 3549 02:46:15,719 --> 02:46:19,260 My homestead is there. I own several rental properties in 3550 02:46:19,260 --> 02:46:21,649 the area and I will say that every single tenant I have 3551 02:46:21,649 --> 02:46:23,680 ever had has had a car and parked there. 3552 02:46:23,719 --> 02:46:26,610 And when there are more than two people or three people in 3553 02:46:26,610 --> 02:46:28,680 the house there's two or three cars. 3554 02:46:28,719 --> 02:46:32,680 So this is a pretty serious concern to me. 3555 02:46:32,719 --> 02:46:35,930 I would be happy with this project if it did follow the 3556 02:46:35,930 --> 02:46:38,680 2030 comprehensive city plan. 3557 02:46:38,719 --> 02:46:39,680 Thank you. 3558 02:46:39,719 --> 02:46:43,680 Thank you. 3559 02:46:43,719 --> 02:46:48,899 Next speaker, I can't read the name. Last name is Hall 3560 02:46:48,899 --> 02:46:50,680 followed by Jay West. 3561 02:46:50,719 --> 02:46:54,659 Again this is a public hearing. I've got two cards left so 3562 02:46:54,659 --> 02:46:57,180 if you would like to speak please fill out a card, the blue 3563 02:46:57,180 --> 02:47:00,899 card or if you'd like to speak a white card as if you just 3564 02:47:00,899 --> 02:47:03,940 would like to record your opposition or support for the 3565 02:47:03,940 --> 02:47:05,680 record and not speak. 3566 02:47:05,719 --> 02:47:06,680 Thank you Mr. Hall. 3567 02:47:06,719 --> 02:47:09,680 Hello ladies and gentlemen of the commission. 3568 02:47:09,719 --> 02:47:17,680 Lucas Hall, 815 Cresto Place in Denton. 3569 02:47:17,719 --> 02:47:20,840 And I come as a citizen and voter of Denton who lives 3570 02:47:20,840 --> 02:47:24,500 several miles from the Fry Street area and frankly I rarely 3571 02:47:24,500 --> 02:47:25,680 ever drive by. 3572 02:47:25,719 --> 02:47:31,159 But I'm here to object to this proposal as written and I 3573 02:47:31,159 --> 02:47:37,979 would object to any version of the proposal that exceeds or 3574 02:47:37,979 --> 02:47:44,450 requires relaxation of the Fry Street overlay as currently 3575 02:47:44,450 --> 02:47:45,680 written. 3576 02:47:45,719 --> 02:47:51,719 This might sound a little philosophical or not necessarily 3577 02:47:51,719 --> 02:47:57,680 practical but I think as a matter of policy making that 3578 02:47:57,680 --> 02:48:04,770 before a governing body agrees to amend the code, 3579 02:48:04,770 --> 02:48:07,540 especially in this case it's my understanding that the Fry 3580 02:48:07,540 --> 02:48:11,069 Street overlay specifically is the product of a lot of 3581 02:48:11,069 --> 02:48:15,139 community wide collaboration that came about when the other 3582 02:48:15,139 --> 02:48:15,680 developer was here. 3583 02:48:15,719 --> 02:48:21,379 But that code is the product of broad debate, negotiation, 3584 02:48:21,379 --> 02:48:26,489 revision and finally a community, a broad swath of the 3585 02:48:26,489 --> 02:48:31,790 community came to identify that and identify that code as 3586 02:48:31,790 --> 02:48:32,680 law. 3587 02:48:32,719 --> 02:48:37,030 And so it's my suggestion that before you decide to 3588 02:48:37,030 --> 02:48:42,069 recommend to amend the code, whether it's this section or 3589 02:48:42,069 --> 02:48:47,069 any part of the code, to ask yourself, am I satisfying an 3590 02:48:47,069 --> 02:48:50,680 urgent substantial need of the community? 3591 02:48:50,719 --> 02:49:06,739 And I posit that in this case the answer is easily no. It 3592 02:49:06,739 --> 02:49:08,170 will be advantageous for a couple of parties but as the 3593 02:49:08,170 --> 02:49:09,549 nearby residents in the neighborhood have spoken more 3594 02:49:09,549 --> 02:49:11,139 intelligently to the parking density and congestion issues 3595 02:49:11,139 --> 02:49:17,280 than I could, this is not going to satisfy a substantial 3596 02:49:17,280 --> 02:49:20,680 need of the community. 3597 02:49:20,719 --> 02:49:25,760 And so, and this is frankly I just became aware today that 3598 02:49:25,760 --> 02:49:30,799 there's the possibility of this small area plan that I get 3599 02:49:30,799 --> 02:49:35,440 the impression this will be another community based 3600 02:49:35,440 --> 02:49:41,680 discussion, whereby we will perhaps decide as a community 3601 02:49:41,680 --> 02:49:45,139 and not just as a small group of selected interested 3602 02:49:45,139 --> 02:49:50,239 parties how we want to design and organize our physical 3603 02:49:50,239 --> 02:49:50,680 spaces. 3604 02:49:50,719 --> 02:49:53,500 In this case where we live and work. And so just to 3605 02:49:53,500 --> 02:49:57,260 reiterate, I reject this on the basis of it being requiring 3606 02:49:57,260 --> 02:50:01,000 relaxation of the code as written and if the community, the 3607 02:50:01,000 --> 02:50:04,680 greater community later on decides to amend the code in the 3608 02:50:04,680 --> 02:50:08,680 small plan, then so be it. Thank you. 3609 02:50:08,719 --> 02:50:09,680 >> Thank you. 3610 02:50:09,719 --> 02:50:13,680 >> I see no questions. Thank you for your comments. 3611 02:50:13,719 --> 02:50:21,899 >> Next item is for Jay West. Again, this is a public 3612 02:50:21,899 --> 02:50:22,399 hearing and anyone is invited to speak but we will need a 3613 02:50:22,399 --> 02:50:22,680 card filled out. 3614 02:50:22,719 --> 02:50:25,940 >> Evening commissioners. I'm Jay West. I'm a commercial 3615 02:50:25,940 --> 02:50:30,549 real estate broker. I live in Dallas, Texas, 2606 Shelby 3616 02:50:30,549 --> 02:50:33,780 Avenue and I've been involved in the student housing 3617 02:50:33,780 --> 02:50:34,680 business. 3618 02:50:34,719 --> 02:50:39,440 For the last 20 years and I've sold land to developers in 3619 02:50:39,440 --> 02:50:44,069 the Denton area for various projects and I actually worked 3620 02:50:44,069 --> 02:50:49,299 on the U-Center Fry Street land but the developer I had it 3621 02:50:49,299 --> 02:50:53,510 lined up was unable to complete the task so it got done a 3622 02:50:53,510 --> 02:50:54,680 little later. 3623 02:50:54,719 --> 02:50:58,600 And I'll just mention a couple of points because I've been 3624 02:50:58,600 --> 02:51:02,569 watching this market for 15 years, got a little bit of 3625 02:51:02,569 --> 02:51:07,290 historical perspective. Denton has grown and gotten nicer 3626 02:51:07,290 --> 02:51:11,680 and gotten better like crazy over the last 15 years. 3627 02:51:11,719 --> 02:51:16,059 So I commend the city for the good things that it's 3628 02:51:16,059 --> 02:51:21,799 accomplished. Downtown is great, traffic's got the new loop 3629 02:51:21,799 --> 02:51:26,059 288, doing a lot of good things. University of North Texas, 3630 02:51:26,059 --> 02:51:27,680 when I started coming here 15 years ago I had 20,000 3631 02:51:27,680 --> 02:51:27,680 students. 3632 02:51:27,719 --> 02:51:32,040 It's got 36,000 students today and they're attracting a 3633 02:51:32,040 --> 02:51:35,540 higher quality of student. It's only in the last two or 3634 02:51:35,540 --> 02:51:39,059 three years that there has been adequate rental rates to 3635 02:51:39,059 --> 02:51:42,680 justify the kind of construction that you see happening 3636 02:51:42,680 --> 02:51:44,680 just in the last few years. 3637 02:51:44,719 --> 02:51:48,670 And the two projects I'm referring to are U-Center Fry 3638 02:51:48,670 --> 02:51:53,319 Street, originally called Sterling and Fry Street, takes up 3639 02:51:53,319 --> 02:51:57,459 an entire city block with the exception of the little cut 3640 02:51:57,459 --> 02:52:01,680 out for Cool Beans restaurant and imbibing facility. 3641 02:52:01,719 --> 02:52:07,670 And it has 600 beds, it's like four acres I believe. By 3642 02:52:07,670 --> 02:52:13,059 comparison, the proposed project on Hicker Street is on 3643 02:52:13,059 --> 02:52:17,790 less than half the amount of land and it has half the 3644 02:52:17,790 --> 02:52:19,680 number of beds. 3645 02:52:19,719 --> 02:52:24,149 Now density, where is that? Just the density has been 3646 02:52:24,149 --> 02:52:28,770 mentioned here this evening as a concern. The density on 3647 02:52:28,770 --> 02:52:33,399 units per acre of the existing Fry Street project is 44 3648 02:52:33,399 --> 02:52:38,010 units per acre and the proposed project is 49 units per 3649 02:52:38,010 --> 02:52:38,680 acre. 3650 02:52:38,719 --> 02:52:44,569 The density is very slightly different. So I guess I would 3651 02:52:44,569 --> 02:52:50,200 make the point that the density is not really the big thing 3652 02:52:50,200 --> 02:52:52,239 . They're bringing a smaller project. I think it's 3653 02:52:52,239 --> 02:52:53,680 responsive to the needs of the community. 3654 02:52:53,719 --> 02:52:57,579 I would echo what the owner of Virtman said that you've got 3655 02:52:57,579 --> 02:53:01,450 some old, tired buildings today and these gentlemen are 3656 02:53:01,450 --> 02:53:05,350 proposing to come to your community and build a beautiful 3657 02:53:05,350 --> 02:53:08,680 new facility that I think people will like. 3658 02:53:08,719 --> 02:53:12,540 Students will love it, I can assure you. They love it on 3659 02:53:12,540 --> 02:53:16,000 every campus that I've visited. And I've visited, since it 3660 02:53:16,000 --> 02:53:19,020 's my business, I've visited University of Texas, I've 3661 02:53:19,020 --> 02:53:21,680 visited Texas State, I've visited TCU. 3662 02:53:21,719 --> 02:53:26,680 My son attended TCU, graduated in 2010 and I'm familiar 3663 02:53:26,680 --> 02:53:31,100 with the project that was in the slide that this community, 3664 02:53:31,100 --> 02:53:35,680 this developer built there and it's a fantastic project. 3665 02:53:35,719 --> 02:53:39,860 My understanding is that project is 80% parked, but the 3666 02:53:39,860 --> 02:53:43,590 students only use about half the spaces. So they have a lot 3667 02:53:43,590 --> 02:53:44,680 of empty spaces. 3668 02:53:44,719 --> 02:53:50,870 And so going back to the, and I apologize, if I can run it 3669 02:53:50,870 --> 02:53:52,680 over, okay. 3670 02:53:52,719 --> 02:53:56,750 The Youth Center, Fry Street project is 70-75% parked and 3671 02:53:56,750 --> 02:53:59,680 we know that because we visited the project. 3672 02:53:59,719 --> 02:54:02,690 If you look at the retail, they have some retail parking. 3673 02:54:02,690 --> 02:54:06,409 It's empty. I mean, it's like people don't know where it is 3674 02:54:06,409 --> 02:54:06,680 . 3675 02:54:06,719 --> 02:54:10,309 And rarely is there any cars on the top level. So that's 3676 02:54:10,309 --> 02:54:14,219 where we, it's pretty reliable to estimate that only, they 3677 02:54:14,219 --> 02:54:16,680 're only using 75% of spaces. 3678 02:54:16,719 --> 02:54:20,040 The other project where we had data cited as January 6th, 3679 02:54:20,040 --> 02:54:25,010 that wasn't point data. That's the parking for the entire 3680 02:54:25,010 --> 02:54:27,680 term, spring and fall. 3681 02:54:27,719 --> 02:54:32,250 That's how many students leave parking spaces. So it was 56 3682 02:54:32,250 --> 02:54:35,680 to 64%. So just a point of clarification. 3683 02:54:35,719 --> 02:54:38,530 Thank you. Thank you for your comments. I have one question 3684 02:54:38,530 --> 02:54:41,680 that's just popped up. Commissioner back. 3685 02:54:41,719 --> 02:54:47,750 Mr. West, you mentioned that the information you have on 3686 02:54:47,750 --> 02:54:53,680 parking has been based on what you currently see. 3687 02:54:53,719 --> 02:54:57,219 Right. Have you made any evaluations that project what's 3688 02:54:57,219 --> 02:54:58,680 going to be in the future? 3689 02:54:58,719 --> 02:55:00,659 Is any of your assessments based on what's going to 3690 02:55:00,659 --> 02:55:01,680 eventually happen? 3691 02:55:01,719 --> 02:55:04,760 Well, I mean, I just say anecdotally, you know, as 3692 02:55:04,760 --> 02:55:09,680 universities get more dense, fewer students use cars 3693 02:55:09,680 --> 02:55:11,680 because they don't need them. 3694 02:55:11,719 --> 02:55:14,479 And because it's harder to get around, so it's just easier 3695 02:55:14,479 --> 02:55:18,170 to leave the car at home or leave it in the garage and walk 3696 02:55:18,170 --> 02:55:20,680 to class and take the shuttle bus. 3697 02:55:20,719 --> 02:55:25,250 And, you know, when you've got students that live a mile or 3698 02:55:25,250 --> 02:55:29,040 two from campus, they're going to use their cars to commute 3699 02:55:29,040 --> 02:55:29,680 to campus. 3700 02:55:29,719 --> 02:55:31,680 And they're going to leave them in the campus parking lot. 3701 02:55:31,719 --> 02:55:34,579 Unfortunately, I think what a lot of University of North 3702 02:55:34,579 --> 02:55:38,950 Texas students do, the university has a garage and it never 3703 02:55:38,950 --> 02:55:42,680 fills up because it costs a little bit of money. 3704 02:55:42,719 --> 02:55:46,100 The students would rather park for free, unfortunately, on 3705 02:55:46,100 --> 02:55:47,680 these people's streets. 3706 02:55:47,719 --> 02:55:50,690 And, you know, I don't think this project is going to 3707 02:55:50,690 --> 02:55:52,680 change that. I don't think it's going to make it worse. 3708 02:55:52,719 --> 02:55:54,680 It's not going to make it better, though. 3709 02:55:54,719 --> 02:55:57,889 So I would say maybe there are some other ideas that could 3710 02:55:57,889 --> 02:56:01,680 be put forth where the city could figure out a way to help 3711 02:56:01,680 --> 02:56:04,370 these people who can't get out of their driveways on Oak 3712 02:56:04,370 --> 02:56:04,680 Street. 3713 02:56:04,719 --> 02:56:07,680 Because that would bother me. That would bother me. 3714 02:56:07,719 --> 02:56:10,850 And I don't know what the solution is, but I'd say maybe 3715 02:56:10,850 --> 02:56:14,170 somebody can get their thinking cap on and figure that one 3716 02:56:14,170 --> 02:56:14,680 out. 3717 02:56:14,719 --> 02:56:17,479 I think the trend is, you know, as a society, we're moving 3718 02:56:17,479 --> 02:56:18,680 away from vehicles. 3719 02:56:18,719 --> 02:56:21,680 More mass transit and Denton is on the leading edge. 3720 02:56:21,719 --> 02:56:25,459 You know, you've got a rapid transit thing that connects to 3721 02:56:25,459 --> 02:56:26,680 Dart in Dallas. 3722 02:56:26,719 --> 02:56:29,629 That's a, you know, that's pretty leading edge for a 3723 02:56:29,629 --> 02:56:32,329 community of this size to have a transit facility 3724 02:56:32,329 --> 02:56:34,680 connecting to Dallas rapid transit. 3725 02:56:34,719 --> 02:56:36,680 I mean, I applaud you. 3726 02:56:36,719 --> 02:56:37,680 Thank you, sir. 3727 02:56:37,719 --> 02:56:38,680 Thank you. 3728 02:56:38,719 --> 02:56:39,680 No further questions. 3729 02:56:39,719 --> 02:56:41,680 Thank you. 3730 02:56:41,719 --> 02:56:43,680 I've received one other card. 3731 02:56:43,719 --> 02:56:48,680 This is from Jennifer Meyer. 3732 02:56:48,719 --> 02:56:56,069 She does not wish to speak and she is in opposition and she 3733 02:56:56,069 --> 02:57:00,680 does have some comments on the back. 3734 02:57:00,719 --> 02:57:05,840 Why are we considering variances to the already fleshed out 3735 02:57:05,840 --> 02:57:07,680 plan for the area? 3736 02:57:07,719 --> 02:57:10,760 And then what is the plan for handling such growing density 3737 02:57:10,760 --> 02:57:11,680 down the road? 3738 02:57:11,719 --> 02:57:14,680 And then Oak and Hickory Streets cannot be widened. 3739 02:57:14,719 --> 02:57:16,680 What is your long term plan? 3740 02:57:16,719 --> 02:57:19,680 So those are her comments. 3741 02:57:19,719 --> 02:57:22,680 That's the final card that I have. 3742 02:57:22,719 --> 02:57:24,680 This is a public hearing. 3743 02:57:24,719 --> 02:57:26,750 It's open to the public so anyone who would like to speak 3744 02:57:26,750 --> 02:57:27,680 is welcome to speak. 3745 02:57:27,719 --> 02:57:32,000 If you would like, approach the mic and give your name and 3746 02:57:32,000 --> 02:57:35,170 address and when you've made your comments, please fill out 3747 02:57:35,170 --> 02:57:36,680 a card for us. 3748 02:57:36,719 --> 02:57:39,680 My name is Brigid Corbett and I did fill out a white card. 3749 02:57:39,719 --> 02:57:42,680 I just, I didn't have any comments at the time. 3750 02:57:42,719 --> 02:57:44,680 I live at 1220 Ector Street. 3751 02:57:44,719 --> 02:57:45,680 I live in the neighborhood. 3752 02:57:45,719 --> 02:57:48,620 That is to the north of the university, very close to 3753 02:57:48,620 --> 02:57:49,680 University Drive. 3754 02:57:49,719 --> 02:57:52,860 And I came tonight because I'm concerned about development 3755 02:57:52,860 --> 02:57:56,100 on the outside of this kind of larger neighborhood that's 3756 02:57:56,100 --> 02:58:00,270 bordered by UNT to the south and University Drive to the 3757 02:58:00,270 --> 02:58:00,680 north. 3758 02:58:00,719 --> 02:58:05,469 And I do object to this project because I think it's too 3759 02:58:05,469 --> 02:58:10,920 many people and too small of a space and it's not, it doesn 3760 02:58:10,920 --> 02:58:11,680 't make a good transition. 3761 02:58:11,719 --> 02:58:14,819 But the reason I got up to speak was because in all this 3762 02:58:14,819 --> 02:58:18,389 discussion about the parking, and I'm not saying this to 3763 02:58:18,389 --> 02:58:21,680 try to make this project be approved and go forward, 3764 02:58:21,719 --> 02:58:26,180 but it strikes me that it's been put forth that all of 3765 02:58:26,180 --> 02:58:30,680 these types of housing have unused parking spaces. 3766 02:58:30,719 --> 02:58:33,379 And then there are people nearby who have problems with 3767 02:58:33,379 --> 02:58:35,680 cars that are parking too much on their streets. 3768 02:58:35,719 --> 02:58:39,670 And I wonder if the developers of these kinds of things 3769 02:58:39,670 --> 02:58:43,719 could make available parking for people other than the 3770 02:58:43,719 --> 02:58:44,680 residents. 3771 02:58:44,719 --> 02:58:47,469 And that might ease some of the issues that the surrounding 3772 02:58:47,469 --> 02:58:48,680 neighborhoods have. 3773 02:58:48,719 --> 02:58:51,680 And that was the only comment I had to add. 3774 02:58:51,719 --> 02:58:52,680 Thank you. 3775 02:58:52,719 --> 02:58:53,680 I don't see any questions. 3776 02:58:53,719 --> 02:58:56,680 Thank you. 3777 02:58:56,719 --> 02:59:00,680 Again, public hearing or open to the public to speak. 3778 02:59:00,719 --> 02:59:03,680 Hi, my name is Esther Rodriguez Phelps. 3779 02:59:03,719 --> 02:59:05,680 I live at 606 Adley Street. 3780 02:59:05,719 --> 02:59:08,680 I've been a resident of Denton, Texas for over 30 years. 3781 02:59:08,719 --> 02:59:13,700 I'm very familiar with the area of the Fry Street area and 3782 02:59:13,700 --> 02:59:16,680 where this Burtman's area is. 3783 02:59:16,719 --> 02:59:22,270 I keep going back to the very beginning of this meeting 3784 02:59:22,270 --> 02:59:29,680 where our own city staff members said to deny this. 3785 02:59:29,719 --> 02:59:31,680 They said it at the very beginning. 3786 02:59:31,719 --> 02:59:37,579 Their proposal was to deny this development based upon the 3787 02:59:37,579 --> 02:59:40,680 variances for the overlays that were already 3788 02:59:40,719 --> 02:59:45,930 difficultly and with much gnashing of teeth agreed upon 3789 02:59:45,930 --> 02:59:47,680 many years ago. 3790 02:59:47,719 --> 02:59:51,680 And for an outsider, yes, we want Denton to grow. 3791 02:59:51,719 --> 02:59:53,680 I am in, I'm a real estate appraiser. 3792 02:59:53,719 --> 02:59:56,680 Yes, it's growing left and right. 3793 02:59:56,719 --> 02:59:58,680 But this is still Denton. 3794 02:59:58,719 --> 03:00:04,680 And we need to take into consideration what this town is 3795 03:00:04,680 --> 03:00:07,680 about, what our culture is about, 3796 03:00:07,719 --> 03:00:14,680 what our livability is about, and how we can communicate 3797 03:00:14,680 --> 03:00:18,680 and coordinate all of that is wonderful. 3798 03:00:18,719 --> 03:00:22,860 I'm sure Mr. The owner of Burtman's was very much 3799 03:00:22,860 --> 03:00:27,680 interested in selling his property and being able to 3800 03:00:27,719 --> 03:00:31,680 have his own unit within this development. 3801 03:00:31,719 --> 03:00:34,680 But that enhances him. 3802 03:00:34,719 --> 03:00:37,850 It doesn't necessarily enhance everybody else within the 3803 03:00:37,850 --> 03:00:38,680 neighborhood. 3804 03:00:38,719 --> 03:00:42,670 And the developers who come to Denton need to be good 3805 03:00:42,670 --> 03:00:43,680 neighbors. 3806 03:00:43,719 --> 03:00:44,680 Thank you very much. 3807 03:00:44,719 --> 03:00:48,680 Would you please fill out a blue card for us, ma'am? 3808 03:00:48,719 --> 03:00:49,680 Thank you. 3809 03:00:49,719 --> 03:00:51,680 Again, it's a public hearing. 3810 03:00:51,719 --> 03:00:55,090 Anyone who would like to speak on this item, please come 3811 03:00:55,090 --> 03:00:56,680 forward at this time. 3812 03:00:56,719 --> 03:00:59,760 You can make your comments and then please fill out a card 3813 03:00:59,760 --> 03:01:00,680 afterwards. 3814 03:01:00,719 --> 03:01:04,680 Again, anyone else that would like to speak on this item? 3815 03:01:04,719 --> 03:01:08,680 No, no, sir, I'm sorry. 3816 03:01:08,719 --> 03:01:13,010 Seeing no further comments or people wishing to speak, I'm 3817 03:01:13,010 --> 03:01:15,680 going to close the public hearing at this time 3818 03:01:15,719 --> 03:01:20,680 and open it for discussion. 3819 03:01:20,719 --> 03:01:22,680 Commissioner Taylor. 3820 03:01:22,719 --> 03:01:24,680 Thank you, Chair. 3821 03:01:24,719 --> 03:01:33,969 So I have a wide variety of views on this project and in 3822 03:01:33,969 --> 03:01:34,680 this area. 3823 03:01:34,719 --> 03:01:39,319 So I'd like to give a little context and then I think I'm 3824 03:01:39,319 --> 03:01:42,680 going to move forward with a motion. 3825 03:01:42,719 --> 03:01:45,680 I grew up in the Denton area. 3826 03:01:45,719 --> 03:01:50,290 I lived at 302 Fry Street for a time and I did not own a 3827 03:01:50,290 --> 03:01:50,680 car. 3828 03:01:50,719 --> 03:01:52,680 And I walked to campus. 3829 03:01:52,719 --> 03:01:53,680 I walked to my job. 3830 03:01:53,719 --> 03:01:55,450 And I walked to the entertainment area and it was all about 3831 03:01:55,450 --> 03:01:57,680 six, eight blocks away. 3832 03:01:57,719 --> 03:02:01,860 I've also lived at 1513 West Oak, which was an apartment 3833 03:02:01,860 --> 03:02:03,680 building, apartment building in quotes, 3834 03:02:03,719 --> 03:02:06,680 built in about 1930. 3835 03:02:06,719 --> 03:02:09,760 So it was older than most of the development in the Fry 3836 03:02:09,760 --> 03:02:10,680 Street area. 3837 03:02:10,719 --> 03:02:13,690 There's some parts of the old Fry Street commercial area 3838 03:02:13,690 --> 03:02:15,680 that was built in the '20s, 3839 03:02:15,719 --> 03:02:18,680 so it's comparable in age. 3840 03:02:18,719 --> 03:02:23,479 And I've also lived far off of campus in neighborhoods in 3841 03:02:23,479 --> 03:02:24,680 North Denton. 3842 03:02:24,719 --> 03:02:27,950 And I was a commuter to UNT and I was too cheap to buy a 3843 03:02:27,950 --> 03:02:28,680 parking pass 3844 03:02:28,719 --> 03:02:31,930 and I would park in the neighborhoods and troll around to 3845 03:02:31,930 --> 03:02:32,680 find a spot. 3846 03:02:32,719 --> 03:02:36,680 And I can tell you that it's not the apartment dwellers 3847 03:02:36,680 --> 03:02:37,680 right next to campus 3848 03:02:37,719 --> 03:02:40,680 that are the traffic problem or the parking problem. 3849 03:02:40,719 --> 03:02:49,280 It's the starving commuters that do troll for spots and swo 3850 03:02:49,280 --> 03:02:50,680 op in at the meters 3851 03:02:50,719 --> 03:02:56,530 or the little not quite marked but not unmarked, not orange 3852 03:02:56,530 --> 03:02:57,680 -curved spots. 3853 03:02:57,719 --> 03:03:01,670 So just for that perspective, I'm sure a lot of you already 3854 03:03:01,670 --> 03:03:02,680 know that. 3855 03:03:02,719 --> 03:03:06,680 I am also a huge fan of density. 3856 03:03:06,719 --> 03:03:09,680 I've lived in a lot of cities across the country. 3857 03:03:09,719 --> 03:03:12,700 Density brings all of the amenities that people talk about 3858 03:03:12,700 --> 03:03:13,680 that they want. 3859 03:03:13,719 --> 03:03:15,680 They want a walkable neighborhood. 3860 03:03:15,719 --> 03:03:18,379 They want to be able to walk to a coffee shop a lot of 3861 03:03:18,379 --> 03:03:18,680 times. 3862 03:03:18,719 --> 03:03:25,309 They want to be able to have a lot of storefronts in their 3863 03:03:25,309 --> 03:03:26,680 commercial areas 3864 03:03:26,719 --> 03:03:28,680 like in their walkable commercial areas 3865 03:03:28,719 --> 03:03:32,969 so that you don't just have one store for 10 blocks of 3866 03:03:32,969 --> 03:03:33,680 traffic 3867 03:03:33,719 --> 03:03:34,680 or 10 blocks of neighborhood. 3868 03:03:34,719 --> 03:03:37,680 You have strips with a lot of options. 3869 03:03:37,719 --> 03:03:40,680 That requires enough customers within walking distance. 3870 03:03:40,719 --> 03:03:44,680 So that doesn't come unless we get density. 3871 03:03:44,719 --> 03:03:48,909 This also, the trends in universities and university 3872 03:03:48,909 --> 03:03:50,680 students is fewer 3873 03:03:50,719 --> 03:03:55,680 and fewer millennials and younger people are owning cars. 3874 03:03:55,719 --> 03:03:58,680 Whenever I turned 16 and everybody I knew, 3875 03:03:58,719 --> 03:04:00,680 we rushed out to get our driver's license in our car. 3876 03:04:00,719 --> 03:04:04,680 My nephew who is turning 18 in a month, 3877 03:04:04,719 --> 03:04:07,809 waited a year and a half after finishing his driver's ed to 3878 03:04:07,809 --> 03:04:08,680 go take his test 3879 03:04:08,719 --> 03:04:10,680 because he didn't care about driving. 3880 03:04:10,719 --> 03:04:12,680 That's a single example, 3881 03:04:12,719 --> 03:04:17,819 but the overall trend is 95% of 16-year-olds had a car in 3882 03:04:17,819 --> 03:04:18,680 1990. 3883 03:04:18,719 --> 03:04:23,680 It's about 80% to 75% today. 3884 03:04:23,719 --> 03:04:29,680 These trends do lead to a need for walkable development. 3885 03:04:31,719 --> 03:04:36,680 So I really like the density, 3886 03:04:36,719 --> 03:04:42,680 but I have a problem with the process here. 3887 03:04:42,719 --> 03:04:48,680 The Fry Street overlay was a long fought process 3888 03:04:48,719 --> 03:04:50,680 and it's only about 12 pages long, 3889 03:04:50,719 --> 03:04:52,680 which is remarkably short for an overlay. 3890 03:04:52,719 --> 03:04:55,680 Our Razor Ranch overlay I think is about 600 pages. 3891 03:04:55,719 --> 03:04:57,680 The airport overlay, which really just deals with 3892 03:04:57,719 --> 03:05:00,379 you can't build a building that blocks the lights or the 3893 03:05:00,379 --> 03:05:01,680 airplanes, 3894 03:05:01,719 --> 03:05:03,680 is I believe 40 or 50 pages. 3895 03:05:03,719 --> 03:05:05,680 And then this one manages to come in at 12. 3896 03:05:05,719 --> 03:05:07,680 That's probably because that's all the varied neighborhoods 3897 03:05:07,719 --> 03:05:09,680 in the area could agree upon. 3898 03:05:09,719 --> 03:05:14,680 So you have the historic district built at the turn of the 3899 03:05:14,680 --> 03:05:15,680 last century. 3900 03:05:15,719 --> 03:05:20,680 The university has been there since about 1910. 3901 03:05:20,719 --> 03:05:23,680 The student housing that I lived in on Oak Street 3902 03:05:23,719 --> 03:05:26,680 that had been built in 1930 or so. 3903 03:05:26,719 --> 03:05:28,680 These are all competing interests, 3904 03:05:28,719 --> 03:05:32,680 all coming to a point at Fry Street. 3905 03:05:32,719 --> 03:05:37,680 And so that overlay, as lacking as it may be 3906 03:05:37,719 --> 03:05:41,680 and as kind of as unfilled out as it is, 3907 03:05:41,719 --> 03:05:45,680 was the culmination of a large community 3908 03:05:45,719 --> 03:05:47,680 with a lot of different views. 3909 03:05:47,719 --> 03:05:55,680 So for us to just basically take a third of the property 3910 03:05:55,680 --> 03:05:56,680 out of section A 3911 03:05:56,719 --> 03:05:59,680 or area A or whatever the term is, 3912 03:05:59,719 --> 03:06:05,159 to meet one project, I think that I have a problem with it 3913 03:06:05,159 --> 03:06:06,680 on the process side. 3914 03:06:06,719 --> 03:06:10,010 I think if this project had been proposed on the south side 3915 03:06:10,010 --> 03:06:12,680 of campus across Eagle, 3916 03:06:12,719 --> 03:06:14,680 there isn't a cohesive neighborhood. 3917 03:06:14,719 --> 03:06:17,690 There aren't three or four competing areas closing in 3918 03:06:17,690 --> 03:06:18,680 together 3919 03:06:18,719 --> 03:06:21,590 that create a lot of friction and a lot of different 3920 03:06:21,590 --> 03:06:22,680 demands. 3921 03:06:22,719 --> 03:06:24,680 It would be great. 3922 03:06:24,719 --> 03:06:28,680 The only other aside I would have on the density is 3923 03:06:28,719 --> 03:06:31,680 I think this project lacks retail. 3924 03:06:31,719 --> 03:06:33,680 As we bring more and more customers down, 3925 03:06:33,719 --> 03:06:35,680 we're going from 30,000 to 15,000 square feet. 3926 03:06:35,719 --> 03:06:39,680 I know that apartment developers are in the business of 3927 03:06:39,680 --> 03:06:40,680 building apartment buildings 3928 03:06:40,719 --> 03:06:43,680 and so they don't really want to deal with a lot of retail. 3929 03:06:43,719 --> 03:06:46,479 But I think that's what this area needs as it gets more 3930 03:06:46,479 --> 03:06:47,680 dense. 3931 03:06:47,719 --> 03:06:50,680 But because of the small area, Fry Street plan, 3932 03:06:50,719 --> 03:06:52,680 that's moving forward now, 3933 03:06:52,719 --> 03:06:55,680 which is another community input process, 3934 03:06:55,719 --> 03:06:58,680 to come up with not just this three block area, 3935 03:06:58,719 --> 03:07:03,489 but a greater probably five by five block roughly zone in 3936 03:07:03,489 --> 03:07:05,680 this neighborhood. 3937 03:07:05,719 --> 03:07:10,090 And because this is really cutting out a good chunk of the 3938 03:07:10,090 --> 03:07:11,680 overlay standard 3939 03:07:11,719 --> 03:07:16,680 for a single project, I move that we deny this application. 3940 03:07:23,719 --> 03:07:26,680 We've got discussion. 3941 03:07:29,719 --> 03:07:31,590 The Chair is going to, at this time I have a whole bank of 3942 03:07:31,590 --> 03:07:34,680 people who would like to speak. 3943 03:07:34,719 --> 03:07:37,559 Would you be okay to hold your motion and give everybody an 3944 03:07:37,559 --> 03:07:38,680 opportunity to speak 3945 03:07:38,719 --> 03:07:40,680 and then we'll come back for a second. 3946 03:07:40,719 --> 03:07:42,680 I'll withdraw my motion. 3947 03:07:42,719 --> 03:07:44,680 Okay. 3948 03:07:44,719 --> 03:07:47,680 Let me know when you'd like to bring it back. 3949 03:07:47,719 --> 03:07:49,680 Commissioner Beck. 3950 03:07:49,719 --> 03:07:50,680 Thank you, Chair. 3951 03:07:50,719 --> 03:07:52,809 And thank you everyone of you all for coming out and 3952 03:07:52,809 --> 03:07:53,680 speaking your mind. 3953 03:07:53,719 --> 03:07:57,090 I really appreciate it and it was important that you did 3954 03:07:57,090 --> 03:07:57,680 this. 3955 03:07:57,719 --> 03:08:03,090 When I first came to live in Denton and go to what was then 3956 03:08:03,090 --> 03:08:03,680 North Texas State University 3957 03:08:03,719 --> 03:08:07,579 back in the early '70s, the city layout then was kind of a 3958 03:08:07,579 --> 03:08:09,680 patchwork quilt design. 3959 03:08:09,719 --> 03:08:12,690 There seemed to be no rhyme or reason where some buildings 3960 03:08:12,690 --> 03:08:13,680 were, 3961 03:08:13,719 --> 03:08:17,680 why they were there and how streets just ended abruptly. 3962 03:08:17,719 --> 03:08:20,579 There simply didn't seem to be any apparent concept of 3963 03:08:20,579 --> 03:08:21,680 future growth then. 3964 03:08:21,719 --> 03:08:24,469 But over the last 30 years or so, new leadership began to 3965 03:08:24,469 --> 03:08:25,680 focus on this problem 3966 03:08:25,719 --> 03:08:28,479 and it has led to a vision that I think we can all be proud 3967 03:08:28,479 --> 03:08:28,680 of. 3968 03:08:28,719 --> 03:08:31,680 Its most current manifestation has been mentioned here. 3969 03:08:31,719 --> 03:08:36,170 It's the Denton Plan 2030 that allows us for a while longer 3970 03:08:36,170 --> 03:08:37,680 to keep the small town flavor 3971 03:08:37,719 --> 03:08:39,680 that we're all fond of. 3972 03:08:39,719 --> 03:08:42,139 So I'd just like to echo here many of the thoughts that 3973 03:08:42,139 --> 03:08:44,680 people, all of you have expressed, 3974 03:08:44,719 --> 03:08:48,010 how this dwelling will diminish the goals set out in the 3975 03:08:48,010 --> 03:08:49,680 Denton Plan 2030 3976 03:08:49,719 --> 03:08:53,239 in regards to the way we want it to sustain the character 3977 03:08:53,239 --> 03:08:54,680 of the neighborhood. 3978 03:08:54,719 --> 03:08:58,190 And though I plan on speaking a lot to the size of this 3979 03:08:58,190 --> 03:08:59,680 thing, 3980 03:08:59,719 --> 03:09:04,299 that's not something we're going to vote on, but so I'll 3981 03:09:04,299 --> 03:09:06,680 bypass that. 3982 03:09:06,719 --> 03:09:09,879 If we honor this zone change though, to me I think it 3983 03:09:09,879 --> 03:09:11,680 attempts to stretch our codes 3984 03:09:11,719 --> 03:09:14,899 for the Fry Street area beyond what some of us feel is 3985 03:09:14,899 --> 03:09:15,680 already a bit much 3986 03:09:15,719 --> 03:09:18,680 and crowd even more people in the small area. 3987 03:09:18,719 --> 03:09:23,250 And as Commissioner Taylor said, it took us a while to get 3988 03:09:23,250 --> 03:09:24,680 this overlay set 3989 03:09:24,719 --> 03:09:26,680 and here we go changing it. 3990 03:09:26,719 --> 03:09:29,680 And it kind of sets a precedent to, you know, 3991 03:09:29,719 --> 03:09:33,670 it just kind of inches us towards something bigger and more 3992 03:09:33,670 --> 03:09:34,680 congested. 3993 03:09:34,719 --> 03:09:37,500 We need more student housing and the city is willing to 3994 03:09:37,500 --> 03:09:39,680 work with UNT and TWU to do this, 3995 03:09:39,719 --> 03:09:42,760 but we have to do so in a fashion that sustains our 3996 03:09:42,760 --> 03:09:43,680 treasured areas around the campuses 3997 03:09:43,719 --> 03:09:46,680 or we'll lose that which gives our community value, 3998 03:09:46,719 --> 03:09:50,040 which I think is an appealing display between what the 3999 03:09:50,040 --> 03:09:51,680 campus needs are 4000 03:09:51,719 --> 03:09:55,680 and with the surrounding homes and businesses. 4001 03:09:55,719 --> 03:09:59,329 Thinking that we can minimize parking by inhibiting the 4002 03:09:59,329 --> 03:09:59,680 numbers of cars 4003 03:09:59,719 --> 03:10:03,360 of those who will occupy this dwelling seems a little 4004 03:10:03,360 --> 03:10:04,680 unrealistic to me. 4005 03:10:04,719 --> 03:10:06,950 In an age where the individual and the automobile are still 4006 03:10:06,950 --> 03:10:07,680 pretty much inseparable, 4007 03:10:07,719 --> 03:10:11,350 though I'm sure, again, Commissioner Taylor's statistics 4008 03:10:11,350 --> 03:10:13,680 show that that's changing. 4009 03:10:13,719 --> 03:10:16,680 But I think this thinking drifts into wishful thinking 4010 03:10:16,719 --> 03:10:19,139 and lays the groundwork for problems down the road when too 4011 03:10:19,139 --> 03:10:19,680 many cars and people 4012 03:10:19,719 --> 03:10:21,940 put too great a stress on our infrastructure and our 4013 03:10:21,940 --> 03:10:24,680 emergency services of fire and police. 4014 03:10:24,719 --> 03:10:27,680 I would encourage EDR to go back to the drawing board 4015 03:10:27,719 --> 03:10:30,579 and design units that accommodate our current codes for Fry 4016 03:10:30,579 --> 03:10:31,680 Street District. 4017 03:10:31,719 --> 03:10:34,680 We'd love to have you as part of the dent in future, 4018 03:10:34,719 --> 03:10:36,729 but it must be on a scale that doesn't overwhelm what we're 4019 03:10:36,729 --> 03:10:37,680 trying to preserve here. 4020 03:10:37,719 --> 03:10:41,000 So until then, I'll stand with the PNZ staff's decision to 4021 03:10:41,000 --> 03:10:42,680 deny the request on the amendment. 4022 03:10:42,719 --> 03:10:44,680 Thank you. 4023 03:10:44,719 --> 03:10:46,680 Commissioner Bruegel. 4024 03:10:46,719 --> 03:10:50,680 Thank you, Chair. 4025 03:10:50,719 --> 03:10:52,899 I know some of the people who came out from the 4026 03:10:52,899 --> 03:10:53,680 neighborhood 4027 03:10:53,719 --> 03:10:56,680 and thank you all for staying late on a school night. 4028 03:10:56,719 --> 03:11:00,670 Some of you did speak favorably about parts of this 4029 03:11:00,670 --> 03:11:01,680 development 4030 03:11:01,719 --> 03:11:05,680 and it sounds like you all would be very good neighbors. 4031 03:11:05,719 --> 03:11:08,680 You know, you've got a good business plan. 4032 03:11:08,719 --> 03:11:12,680 This meets a need for more student housing in town. 4033 03:11:12,719 --> 03:11:16,680 But I think there's pieces that are missing still. 4034 03:11:16,719 --> 03:11:19,680 We're missing the traffic impact analysis. 4035 03:11:19,719 --> 03:11:23,420 The fire department hasn't had all their questions answered 4036 03:11:23,420 --> 03:11:23,680 . 4037 03:11:23,719 --> 03:11:27,680 There is a small area plan that's soon to be in the works. 4038 03:11:27,719 --> 03:11:31,850 We have an overlay that took a long time to come in 4039 03:11:31,850 --> 03:11:33,680 agreement for that. 4040 03:11:33,719 --> 03:11:36,680 I would rather see, rather than this being denied, 4041 03:11:36,719 --> 03:11:39,040 rather than you all go back and speak again with the 4042 03:11:39,040 --> 03:11:39,680 neighborhood, 4043 03:11:39,719 --> 03:11:43,680 any changes to the overlay must enhance the neighborhood. 4044 03:11:43,719 --> 03:11:47,680 And I'm not sure that this enhances the neighborhood to the 4045 03:11:47,680 --> 03:11:47,680 degree 4046 03:11:47,719 --> 03:11:51,680 that rewriting or overwriting the overlay would... 4047 03:11:51,719 --> 03:11:53,680 I'm not sure that... 4048 03:11:53,719 --> 03:11:54,680 Sorry, excuse me. 4049 03:11:54,719 --> 03:11:56,680 It is a school night and it is a bit late. 4050 03:11:56,719 --> 03:11:59,680 So I'm not sure that the changes that we would be making 4051 03:11:59,719 --> 03:12:03,680 would actually enhance the overlay. 4052 03:12:03,719 --> 03:12:06,680 I'm concerned also, and I hear Commissioner Taylor, 4053 03:12:06,719 --> 03:12:09,680 you know, we agree about a lot of things. 4054 03:12:09,719 --> 03:12:12,690 I'm also a fan of density and I understand that the trend 4055 03:12:12,690 --> 03:12:14,680 is for fewer cars. 4056 03:12:14,719 --> 03:12:16,680 In fact, we just had a presentation in our work session 4057 03:12:16,680 --> 03:12:17,680 about bikes. 4058 03:12:17,719 --> 03:12:19,680 You know, we want to be a bikeable community. 4059 03:12:19,719 --> 03:12:22,680 So I get that maybe not all the residents will have cars, 4060 03:12:22,719 --> 03:12:23,680 but I'm still... 4061 03:12:23,719 --> 03:12:26,680 I would like for the developer to show their math 4062 03:12:26,719 --> 03:12:28,680 and I think Ms Anderson spoke about that. 4063 03:12:28,719 --> 03:12:29,680 Show your math. 4064 03:12:29,719 --> 03:12:31,680 Where's your data coming from? 4065 03:12:31,719 --> 03:12:35,170 I would like to see, you know, what is the parking that 4066 03:12:35,170 --> 03:12:36,680 will be needed, 4067 03:12:36,719 --> 03:12:39,379 especially because these students are going to be driving 4068 03:12:39,379 --> 03:12:39,680 to work. 4069 03:12:39,719 --> 03:12:41,680 And also we've created with the loss of Sack and Safe, 4070 03:12:41,719 --> 03:12:43,680 we now have a food desert in this neighborhood. 4071 03:12:43,719 --> 03:12:45,680 So how are they going to get to the grocery store? 4072 03:12:45,719 --> 03:12:48,840 I know I'm not going to want to Uber my ride up to Kroger 4073 03:12:48,840 --> 03:12:49,680 and back. 4074 03:12:49,719 --> 03:12:53,680 So I see some value in this project. 4075 03:12:53,719 --> 03:12:58,250 I sincerely do, but not to the point where I'm ready to 4076 03:12:58,250 --> 03:12:58,680 approve it. 4077 03:12:58,719 --> 03:13:02,680 And yet I don't want to outright deny it either 4078 03:13:02,719 --> 03:13:03,680 because I think there is... 4079 03:13:03,719 --> 03:13:05,680 It does fit a need in the community. 4080 03:13:05,719 --> 03:13:08,620 So I would be more in favor of postponing it until we can 4081 03:13:08,620 --> 03:13:09,680 get more data. 4082 03:13:09,719 --> 03:13:10,680 Go back to the neighborhood. 4083 03:13:10,719 --> 03:13:12,680 Let's hear about the small area plan. 4084 03:13:12,719 --> 03:13:14,340 Let's talk more about this overlay and how can we move 4085 03:13:14,340 --> 03:13:15,680 forward? 4086 03:13:15,719 --> 03:13:16,680 Because it's a good project, 4087 03:13:16,719 --> 03:13:19,680 but just it's all about smart growth in this town. 4088 03:13:19,719 --> 03:13:22,680 Just because we can build it, we're a growing town. 4089 03:13:22,719 --> 03:13:25,829 Just because we can build it doesn't make it right for 4090 03:13:25,829 --> 03:13:26,680 right now either. 4091 03:13:26,719 --> 03:13:27,680 Does that make sense? 4092 03:13:27,719 --> 03:13:30,760 So I'd be more in favor of postponing this until we get a 4093 03:13:30,760 --> 03:13:31,680 little more data 4094 03:13:31,719 --> 03:13:34,680 and speak with the neighborhood again. 4095 03:13:34,719 --> 03:13:36,680 Commissioner Hudspeth. 4096 03:13:36,719 --> 03:13:37,680 Thank you, Chair. 4097 03:13:37,719 --> 03:13:41,680 So and I agree with Commissioner Bruegel 4098 03:13:41,719 --> 03:13:48,979 that I would like to ultimately have the two parties, if 4099 03:13:48,979 --> 03:13:50,680 you will, go back and talk. 4100 03:13:50,719 --> 03:13:53,680 And for this reason, I think it is a great project. 4101 03:13:53,719 --> 03:13:56,680 I'm very practical in my approach to things. 4102 03:13:56,719 --> 03:13:59,680 And here's the realistic thing is, 4103 03:13:59,719 --> 03:14:01,809 anywhere else in Denton, if there's a traffic jam or 4104 03:14:01,809 --> 03:14:02,680 traffic backup, 4105 03:14:02,719 --> 03:14:05,680 I can circumnavigate that and go a different way. 4106 03:14:05,719 --> 03:14:09,159 Well, the problem with this particular area is, to the 4107 03:14:09,159 --> 03:14:09,680 right, 4108 03:14:09,719 --> 03:14:12,680 everything for as far as you can see is 20 miles per hour. 4109 03:14:12,719 --> 03:14:14,680 That's just not appeasing at all. 4110 03:14:14,719 --> 03:14:17,680 I mean, at minimum, I'm going 40 everywhere. 4111 03:14:17,719 --> 03:14:20,680 So I mean, that doesn't work. 4112 03:14:20,719 --> 03:14:24,139 And then it also ignores the fact that you can have all the 4113 03:14:24,139 --> 03:14:25,680 parking on the planet, 4114 03:14:25,719 --> 03:14:28,680 but you still have to drive in a circle to get up there. 4115 03:14:28,719 --> 03:14:31,909 And if I'm running late, I'm not going to drive in a circle 4116 03:14:31,909 --> 03:14:32,680 to get up there. 4117 03:14:32,719 --> 03:14:36,350 I'm going to absolutely park right on the edge of someone's 4118 03:14:36,350 --> 03:14:38,680 house on Oak and hustle to class. 4119 03:14:38,719 --> 03:14:41,680 And so I think there is some value, 4120 03:14:41,719 --> 03:14:45,440 but I think it needs a practical application to, hey, 4121 03:14:45,440 --> 03:14:48,680 really, that's a no-brainer. 4122 03:14:48,719 --> 03:14:50,680 I don't want to drive in that circle. 4123 03:14:50,719 --> 03:14:52,680 Even if I have the best parking spot on the roof, 4124 03:14:52,719 --> 03:14:56,680 that's three trips behind someone that drives super slow. 4125 03:14:56,719 --> 03:14:59,680 I'm still doing less than 40, and it's just not appeasing. 4126 03:14:59,719 --> 03:15:01,680 So I think there is an opportunity. 4127 03:15:01,719 --> 03:15:02,680 But I will tell you this. 4128 03:15:02,719 --> 03:15:07,750 I am encouraged by the retail, kind of contrary to what you 4129 03:15:07,750 --> 03:15:08,680 pointed out, 4130 03:15:08,719 --> 03:15:11,680 in that if you look down the street, 4131 03:15:11,719 --> 03:15:14,979 there was four places that they said were going to be just 4132 03:15:14,979 --> 03:15:16,680 inundated with business 4133 03:15:16,719 --> 03:15:19,760 because the apartments up there had been 30 different 4134 03:15:19,760 --> 03:15:20,680 restaurants. 4135 03:15:20,719 --> 03:15:22,680 It was a mac and cheese place. 4136 03:15:22,719 --> 03:15:24,680 I don't even know what's there now anymore. 4137 03:15:24,719 --> 03:15:27,680 And it doesn't -- and it's just getting decimated. 4138 03:15:27,719 --> 03:15:30,930 So to have someone that's been there that I know is going 4139 03:15:30,930 --> 03:15:31,680 to be there 4140 03:15:31,719 --> 03:15:34,799 and Subway is going to be there, and you keep it concise, I 4141 03:15:34,799 --> 03:15:36,680 'm all for that. 4142 03:15:36,719 --> 03:15:37,680 I think that is outstanding. 4143 03:15:37,719 --> 03:15:41,680 That's a plus for me versus the alternative, 4144 03:15:41,719 --> 03:15:45,680 which is just a revolving door of whoever and whenever. 4145 03:15:45,719 --> 03:15:49,680 So I think the two things I would like to see is one, 4146 03:15:49,719 --> 03:15:52,690 it's overwhelming the people that came and spoke that live 4147 03:15:52,690 --> 03:15:53,680 in the -- 4148 03:15:53,719 --> 03:15:55,680 that came in the neighborhood are against it. 4149 03:15:55,719 --> 03:15:56,680 So why? 4150 03:15:56,719 --> 03:15:57,680 Let's go talk and let's go hash that out. 4151 03:15:57,719 --> 03:16:01,940 And then secondly, just come up with a pedestrian plan that 4152 03:16:01,940 --> 03:16:02,680 fits the area, 4153 03:16:02,719 --> 03:16:05,500 because I think that too would be, as the kids are walking 4154 03:16:05,500 --> 03:16:06,680 back and forth, 4155 03:16:06,719 --> 03:16:09,680 let's deal with that sooner than later. 4156 03:16:09,719 --> 03:16:10,680 Thank you. 4157 03:16:10,719 --> 03:16:12,680 Commissioner Rosell. 4158 03:16:12,719 --> 03:16:14,680 Thank you, sir. 4159 03:16:14,719 --> 03:16:17,379 I want to reiterate everyone -- what everyone else has said 4160 03:16:17,379 --> 03:16:17,680 in terms of 4161 03:16:17,719 --> 03:16:19,530 thanking everyone for coming out and voicing their concerns 4162 03:16:19,530 --> 03:16:19,680 . 4163 03:16:19,719 --> 03:16:23,680 It's very helpful for us to cultivate discussion 4164 03:16:23,719 --> 03:16:27,030 and try to hash out the thoughts of not just us, but the 4165 03:16:27,030 --> 03:16:27,680 city at large. 4166 03:16:27,719 --> 03:16:29,680 So I thank you for that. 4167 03:16:29,719 --> 03:16:31,959 I personally kind of align with Commissioner Taylor in 4168 03:16:31,959 --> 03:16:34,680 terms of me being torn. 4169 03:16:34,719 --> 03:16:38,309 In my estimation, and this is obviously just anecdotal for 4170 03:16:38,309 --> 03:16:38,680 me, 4171 03:16:38,719 --> 03:16:42,270 I certainly see a lesser car ownership happening pervas 4172 03:16:42,270 --> 03:16:42,680 ively, 4173 03:16:42,719 --> 03:16:43,680 especially through college students. 4174 03:16:43,719 --> 03:16:47,680 I have a college friend who lives in the Rawlings dorm. 4175 03:16:47,719 --> 03:16:49,680 It's the honors dorm on campus. 4176 03:16:49,719 --> 03:16:52,680 And I was speaking with him, he said that maybe 60% of that 4177 03:16:52,680 --> 03:16:52,680 dorm 4178 03:16:52,719 --> 03:16:55,680 owns cars and has them on campus. 4179 03:16:55,719 --> 03:16:59,389 So I think the numbers that Mr. King and his team provided 4180 03:16:59,389 --> 03:16:59,680 tonight, 4181 03:16:59,719 --> 03:17:00,680 they resonate with me. 4182 03:17:00,719 --> 03:17:01,680 I believe it. 4183 03:17:01,719 --> 03:17:04,680 It's not just a matter of like take their word for it. 4184 03:17:04,719 --> 03:17:09,680 I have my own intuition and knowledge of the people I know. 4185 03:17:09,719 --> 03:17:12,680 I know currently not a whole lot of college freshmen, 4186 03:17:12,719 --> 03:17:16,680 but of four of them that I do know, one owns a car. 4187 03:17:16,719 --> 03:17:20,680 And so I can extrapolate and kind of understand how TCU 4188 03:17:20,680 --> 03:17:21,680 might be at 60% 4189 03:17:21,719 --> 03:17:24,680 or the one on Eagle could be at 60%. 4190 03:17:24,719 --> 03:17:26,680 That can make sense in my mind. 4191 03:17:26,719 --> 03:17:30,690 And so I'm wondering if there needs to be a one-for-one 4192 03:17:30,690 --> 03:17:31,680 parking requirement 4193 03:17:31,719 --> 03:17:34,680 in this overlay. 4194 03:17:34,719 --> 03:17:37,680 And I'm in favor, in the presentation that you provided, 4195 03:17:37,719 --> 03:17:39,940 I thought was spot on, and I think it would be a great 4196 03:17:39,940 --> 03:17:40,680 development. 4197 03:17:40,719 --> 03:17:43,680 And I think the reason why Warren and Commissioner Taylor 4198 03:17:43,680 --> 03:17:43,680 brought this up 4199 03:17:43,719 --> 03:17:47,200 is a lot of work and sweat went in before I became a 4200 03:17:47,200 --> 03:17:47,680 commissioner 4201 03:17:47,719 --> 03:17:49,680 on making this overlay exist. 4202 03:17:49,719 --> 03:17:54,680 And so I feel kind of short-sighted to come in here tonight 4203 03:17:54,719 --> 03:17:58,280 and this week and look over this and think that what I've 4204 03:17:58,280 --> 03:17:58,680 heard tonight 4205 03:17:58,719 --> 03:18:01,680 should circumvent the work done previously 4206 03:18:01,719 --> 03:18:05,680 and bifurcate an overlay that's already there. 4207 03:18:05,719 --> 03:18:07,680 And so again, Commissioner Taylor's point, 4208 03:18:07,719 --> 03:18:10,680 and that's where I think my decision ultimately lies, 4209 03:18:10,719 --> 03:18:12,680 is there was work previously done 4210 03:18:12,719 --> 03:18:15,680 and I feel like we probably need to honor that work 4211 03:18:15,719 --> 03:18:19,680 and maybe the small area plan can help us maneuver this. 4212 03:18:19,719 --> 03:18:22,680 I would love to see an EDR property on that site. 4213 03:18:22,719 --> 03:18:25,680 I think you would be good neighbors. 4214 03:18:25,719 --> 03:18:27,680 Tonight, though, I don't know if it's a postpone 4215 03:18:27,719 --> 03:18:29,680 or if it's an outright denial, 4216 03:18:29,719 --> 03:18:32,680 but because of what has to happen to a sub-district, 4217 03:18:32,719 --> 03:18:36,680 I couldn't support that. 4218 03:18:36,719 --> 03:18:38,680 Commissioner Duttlewitz. 4219 03:18:38,719 --> 03:18:39,680 Thank you, Chair. 4220 03:18:39,719 --> 03:18:43,680 It's sort of an unwritten procedure of this commission 4221 03:18:43,719 --> 03:18:45,680 for all of us to express our concerns 4222 03:18:45,719 --> 03:18:47,680 or vote for or vote against. 4223 03:18:47,719 --> 03:18:50,700 So you've heard a lot of comments from the current 4224 03:18:50,700 --> 03:18:51,680 commissioners 4225 03:18:51,719 --> 03:18:54,680 and I guess I'm the last one to comment. 4226 03:18:54,719 --> 03:18:58,680 Gosh, this project is obviously needed. 4227 03:18:58,719 --> 03:19:02,680 It does bring some quality to the housing units that we see 4228 03:19:02,719 --> 03:19:05,680 and then that are provided for students. 4229 03:19:05,719 --> 03:19:08,680 But without going through all the other comments, 4230 03:19:08,719 --> 03:19:11,680 it's really the issue of amending, 4231 03:19:11,719 --> 03:19:15,680 not changing the zoning, it's amending an overlay. 4232 03:19:15,719 --> 03:19:17,680 And I believe that overlay was put in by the citizens 4233 03:19:17,719 --> 03:19:19,680 for a purpose. 4234 03:19:19,719 --> 03:19:22,680 And I'm in agreement that we don't amend it, 4235 03:19:22,719 --> 03:19:25,680 leave the overlay as is, 4236 03:19:25,719 --> 03:19:28,680 and let the developers work within the confines 4237 03:19:28,719 --> 03:19:30,680 of that overlay. 4238 03:19:30,719 --> 03:19:32,680 I think everybody would be happy with that. 4239 03:19:32,719 --> 03:19:34,680 So for the purposes of postponing any more discussion, 4240 03:19:34,719 --> 03:19:36,680 I think we're going to come back to, it's an overlay, 4241 03:19:36,719 --> 03:19:38,680 here's what the overlay says, 4242 03:19:38,719 --> 03:19:40,680 let's build our developments within that 4243 03:19:40,719 --> 03:19:43,680 and everything will be fine. 4244 03:19:43,719 --> 03:19:45,680 And I think the residents will be happy with that. 4245 03:19:45,719 --> 03:19:47,680 I know that the board will be happy with that. 4246 03:19:47,719 --> 03:19:49,680 It may be a consternation for the developers, 4247 03:19:49,719 --> 03:19:51,680 but that's what the overlay is. 4248 03:19:51,719 --> 03:19:54,680 And you've always heard Commissioner Taylor say 4249 03:19:54,719 --> 03:19:57,680 that if this was located in another area, 4250 03:19:57,719 --> 03:19:58,680 a zoning issue or something, 4251 03:19:58,719 --> 03:20:00,680 we might be able to work with, 4252 03:20:00,719 --> 03:20:03,680 but not to oversee or turn over an overlay 4253 03:20:03,719 --> 03:20:06,680 that's already been put in place and been working. 4254 03:20:06,719 --> 03:20:08,680 And as much as I would love to have this project 4255 03:20:08,719 --> 03:20:11,680 and see it come to fruition, 4256 03:20:11,719 --> 03:20:13,680 I can't support turning down an overlay 4257 03:20:13,719 --> 03:20:19,680 that's already in place. 4258 03:20:19,719 --> 03:20:20,680 Commissioner Taylor. 4259 03:20:20,719 --> 03:20:21,680 Thank you, Chair. 4260 03:20:21,719 --> 03:20:23,680 I have a question, perhaps, 4261 03:20:23,719 --> 03:20:26,680 for our Deputy Director or legal. 4262 03:20:26,719 --> 03:20:30,680 The process of amending an overlay, 4263 03:20:30,719 --> 03:20:32,680 like on an SUP, you can't reapply for a year 4264 03:20:32,719 --> 03:20:34,680 if your SUP is denied. 4265 03:20:34,719 --> 03:20:39,680 In this case, would a denial now preclude any changes 4266 03:20:39,719 --> 03:20:48,680 three months from now, six months from now? 4267 03:20:48,719 --> 03:20:50,680 The SUP process is the only one that I know of 4268 03:20:50,719 --> 03:20:56,680 currently in the DDC that requires a year wait period. 4269 03:20:56,719 --> 03:20:57,680 It says it's zoning too. 4270 03:20:57,719 --> 03:21:00,680 Okay. 4271 03:21:00,719 --> 03:21:01,680 I can get back to you on that, 4272 03:21:01,719 --> 03:21:03,680 but I think that if there is a wait period, 4273 03:21:03,719 --> 03:21:06,680 then it would typically be 12 months 4274 03:21:06,719 --> 03:21:08,680 from the date of the denial. 4275 03:21:08,719 --> 03:21:13,680 So what I'm thinking is that because this is a code change, 4276 03:21:13,719 --> 03:21:16,680 you know, we could initiate another code change 4277 03:21:16,719 --> 03:21:19,680 as opposed to like a zoning change on a property. 4278 03:21:19,719 --> 03:21:21,680 But I would like to clarify this 4279 03:21:21,719 --> 03:21:25,680 because I don't want to prevent a change 4280 03:21:25,719 --> 03:21:27,680 that's negotiated by the neighborhood 4281 03:21:27,719 --> 03:21:31,680 and the developer from moving forth. 4282 03:21:31,719 --> 03:21:36,680 But I do not think this current amendment is viable. 4283 03:21:36,719 --> 03:21:38,680 You've hit the exact problem that I'm struggling with here 4284 03:21:38,719 --> 03:21:41,680 because it's not only a DDC amendment, 4285 03:21:41,719 --> 03:21:43,680 but it's an actual overlay amendment, 4286 03:21:43,719 --> 03:21:45,680 which is a zoning document. 4287 03:21:45,719 --> 03:21:48,680 So whether or not the 12 months comes into play 4288 03:21:48,719 --> 03:21:50,680 is something that I'm going to have to look at. 4289 03:21:50,719 --> 03:21:52,680 But the DDC typically does not have, 4290 03:21:52,719 --> 03:21:53,680 of course, a waiting period. 4291 03:21:53,719 --> 03:21:54,680 You can bring that any time. 4292 03:21:54,719 --> 03:21:55,680 Okay. 4293 03:21:55,719 --> 03:21:56,680 And I guess one final question. 4294 03:21:56,719 --> 03:21:59,680 Since we are recommending to city council, 4295 03:21:59,719 --> 03:22:01,680 if it doesn't get to city council 4296 03:22:01,719 --> 03:22:06,680 and a new proposal is brought forth, 4297 03:22:06,719 --> 03:22:08,680 that wouldn't have a 12-month time around, would it? 4298 03:22:08,719 --> 03:22:12,680 No, as long as it's substantially different. 4299 03:22:12,719 --> 03:22:14,680 So hearing that, 4300 03:22:14,719 --> 03:22:18,680 I would like to move forward with my original motion 4301 03:22:18,719 --> 03:22:21,680 to move to recommend denial to city council 4302 03:22:21,719 --> 03:22:25,680 of the amendment to the overlay. 4303 03:22:25,719 --> 03:22:29,680 Commissioner Dudowitz, please. 4304 03:22:29,719 --> 03:22:30,680 You were speaking that direction, 4305 03:22:30,719 --> 03:22:32,680 so I didn't hear all of your comment, 4306 03:22:32,719 --> 03:22:36,680 but can you explain what you were looking at doing? 4307 03:22:36,719 --> 03:22:40,680 So I just wanted to make sure with staff and legal 4308 03:22:40,719 --> 03:22:44,680 that if we recommend denial tonight, 4309 03:22:44,719 --> 03:22:49,680 that if a new plan is-- 4310 03:22:49,719 --> 03:22:53,680 a new amendment is negotiated between the neighborhood 4311 03:22:53,719 --> 03:22:55,680 and the developer, 4312 03:22:55,719 --> 03:22:57,680 that they could choose not to move forward 4313 03:22:57,719 --> 03:22:58,680 with this amendment 4314 03:22:58,719 --> 03:23:00,680 and they could bring another amendment to us 4315 03:23:00,719 --> 03:23:04,680 without waiting a year or some amount of time. 4316 03:23:04,719 --> 03:23:06,680 Okay, thank you. 4317 03:23:06,719 --> 03:23:07,680 Manon, please. 4318 03:23:07,719 --> 03:23:09,680 I'd like to clarify a couple of points. 4319 03:23:09,719 --> 03:23:12,680 The first thing is if the Planning and Zoning Commission 4320 03:23:12,719 --> 03:23:15,680 recommendation is that of denial, 4321 03:23:15,719 --> 03:23:18,549 then the applicant can choose to withdraw their application 4322 03:23:18,549 --> 03:23:18,680 . 4323 03:23:18,719 --> 03:23:21,680 However, their other option is to proceed to city council 4324 03:23:21,719 --> 03:23:24,680 and seek their final decision or determination. 4325 03:23:24,719 --> 03:23:28,680 The issue that you have raised earlier 4326 03:23:28,719 --> 03:23:31,680 was when does that clock start ticking 4327 03:23:31,719 --> 03:23:34,680 should the city-- does it start ticking at city council? 4328 03:23:34,719 --> 03:23:35,680 Absolutely it does. 4329 03:23:35,719 --> 03:23:39,680 So the 12-year timeframe would kick in at that time, 4330 03:23:39,719 --> 03:23:41,680 not at P&Z denial. 4331 03:23:41,719 --> 03:23:44,680 Okay, thank you. 4332 03:23:44,719 --> 03:23:47,680 Thank you, Manon. 4333 03:23:47,719 --> 03:23:50,680 Okay, so we have a motion on the floor 4334 03:23:50,719 --> 03:23:53,680 and we're looking for a second. 4335 03:23:53,719 --> 03:23:54,680 I heard it up there. 4336 03:23:54,719 --> 03:23:55,680 I thought-- 4337 03:23:55,719 --> 03:23:57,680 Well, I think he withdrew his motion 4338 03:23:57,719 --> 03:24:00,680 technically and so-- 4339 03:24:00,719 --> 03:24:01,680 We need to clear the board. 4340 03:24:01,719 --> 03:24:02,680 We need to clear the board. 4341 03:24:02,719 --> 03:24:03,680 We need to clear the board. 4342 03:24:03,719 --> 03:24:05,680 Okay, I apologize. 4343 03:24:05,719 --> 03:24:07,680 We have a second from Commissioner Beck. 4344 03:24:07,719 --> 03:24:11,680 I second Commissioner Taylor's vote. 4345 03:24:11,719 --> 03:24:13,680 Thank you. 4346 03:24:13,719 --> 03:24:15,680 If we have a first and a second, 4347 03:24:15,719 --> 03:24:18,680 do we have any further discussion? 4348 03:24:18,719 --> 03:24:19,680 Commissioner Bruegel. 4349 03:24:19,719 --> 03:24:21,680 Thank you, Chair. 4350 03:24:21,719 --> 03:24:26,680 Commissioner Taylor, I hear your strategy with this. 4351 03:24:26,719 --> 03:24:27,680 Yeah. 4352 03:24:27,719 --> 03:24:31,680 And I am going to vote for denial, 4353 03:24:31,719 --> 03:24:34,680 but I don't want to scare EDR off either. 4354 03:24:34,719 --> 03:24:37,680 I think this is-- it's promising. 4355 03:24:37,719 --> 03:24:38,680 It's very promising 4356 03:24:38,719 --> 03:24:40,680 and I'd like to see you guys come back again, 4357 03:24:40,719 --> 03:24:43,680 but there are some major-- 4358 03:24:43,719 --> 03:24:49,680 There are some edits that need to be made to your project, 4359 03:24:49,719 --> 03:24:51,680 I think, before I would be voting in favor of this. 4360 03:24:51,719 --> 03:24:54,680 So I want you to know I don't want to scare you off, yeah, 4361 03:24:54,719 --> 03:24:57,680 but I am going to vote for denial for this. 4362 03:24:57,719 --> 03:24:58,680 Thank you. 4363 03:25:03,719 --> 03:25:05,680 Any other discussion? 4364 03:25:09,719 --> 03:25:12,680 Seeing none, I'll call for a vote on the board. 4365 03:25:19,719 --> 03:25:23,680 The clarification, a vote for is to deny. 4366 03:25:23,719 --> 03:25:25,680 Correct. 4367 03:25:31,719 --> 03:25:34,680 Motion carries 6-1. 4368 03:25:39,719 --> 03:25:42,680 The next item we have on our agenda tonight 4369 03:25:42,719 --> 03:25:49,680 is going to be item Z15-0031, 4370 03:25:49,719 --> 03:25:53,680 and I'm going to open the public hearing at this time. 4371 03:25:53,719 --> 03:25:55,680 847. 4372 03:25:55,719 --> 03:25:57,680 At 847. 4373 03:25:57,719 --> 03:25:58,680 Thank you, Chairperson Strange. 4374 03:25:58,719 --> 03:26:00,680 I'm going to ask Ross Colbittson, our senior planner, 4375 03:26:00,719 --> 03:26:02,680 to make this presentation. 4376 03:26:23,719 --> 03:26:46,680 [inaudible] 4377 03:26:46,719 --> 03:26:47,680 Gotcha. 4378 03:26:47,719 --> 03:26:48,680 Thank you. 4379 03:26:53,719 --> 03:26:55,680 Thank you. 4380 03:27:02,719 --> 03:27:04,680 Good evening, commissioners. 4381 03:27:04,719 --> 03:27:06,680 The room's cleared out, 4382 03:27:06,719 --> 03:27:09,680 and I want to thank the applicants of this project 4383 03:27:09,719 --> 03:27:13,680 for holding on for tonight's presentation here. 4384 03:27:13,719 --> 03:27:18,680 This is Z15-31, Cavender's Boot City. 4385 03:27:18,719 --> 03:27:22,680 A request before you is to hold a public hearing 4386 03:27:22,719 --> 03:27:24,680 with the recommended city council 4387 03:27:24,719 --> 03:27:26,680 regarding a rezoning request 4388 03:27:26,719 --> 03:27:31,680 from an industrial center employment ICE district 4389 03:27:31,719 --> 03:27:36,680 to a regional center commercial downtown RCCD district 4390 03:27:36,719 --> 03:27:39,680 on approximately 2.9 acres. 4391 03:27:39,719 --> 03:27:44,680 The subject for the rezoning is located on the west side 4392 03:27:44,719 --> 03:27:46,680 of the I-35 frontage road 4393 03:27:46,719 --> 03:27:49,680 approximately 1,000 feet south of West University, 4394 03:27:49,719 --> 03:27:52,680 which is Highway 380. 4395 03:27:52,719 --> 03:27:54,680 If you want to look at the existing conditions, 4396 03:27:54,719 --> 03:27:57,680 the property is zoned ICE, 4397 03:27:57,719 --> 03:28:03,680 which was established with the 2002 rezoning for the city 4398 03:28:03,719 --> 03:28:05,680 and incorporated the light industrial uses 4399 03:28:05,719 --> 03:28:07,680 on the property. 4400 03:28:07,719 --> 03:28:11,680 It also anticipated service uses such as office, warehouse, 4401 03:28:11,719 --> 03:28:15,680 and hotel to support the larger ICG, 4402 03:28:15,719 --> 03:28:18,680 which is Industrial Commercial General Zoning District, 4403 03:28:18,719 --> 03:28:21,690 which is over to the west near the Denton Enterprise 4404 03:28:21,690 --> 03:28:22,680 Airport 4405 03:28:22,719 --> 03:28:27,680 and properties in between this and the airport. 4406 03:28:27,719 --> 03:28:28,680 When we look at ICE, 4407 03:28:28,719 --> 03:28:32,680 it does not permit general retail activity 4408 03:28:32,719 --> 03:28:34,680 as general service use, 4409 03:28:34,719 --> 03:28:39,680 but does permit retail as a limitation, L18, 4410 03:28:39,719 --> 03:28:41,680 with our Denton Development Code, 4411 03:28:41,719 --> 03:28:45,680 which limits retail to gas station uses only 4412 03:28:45,719 --> 03:28:49,680 and even caps the square footage of retail 4413 03:28:49,719 --> 03:28:52,680 to 10,000 square feet within those uses. 4414 03:28:52,719 --> 03:28:54,680 However, RCCD, 4415 03:28:54,719 --> 03:28:58,680 which is contrasted from the light blue of ICE 4416 03:28:58,719 --> 03:29:01,680 to RCCD in the purple, 4417 03:29:01,719 --> 03:29:09,680 permits retail and regional commercial uses by right. 4418 03:29:09,719 --> 03:29:12,680 RCCD in its analysis 4419 03:29:12,719 --> 03:29:13,680 is a zoning district 4420 03:29:13,719 --> 03:29:17,680 that promotes mixed-use development with urban character, 4421 03:29:17,719 --> 03:29:20,680 permits wide array of commercial and retail uses, 4422 03:29:20,719 --> 03:29:24,680 and is used typically within the city of Denton 4423 03:29:24,719 --> 03:29:25,680 as a zoning classification 4424 03:29:25,719 --> 03:29:29,680 for regional commercial centers along the I-35E corridor. 4425 03:29:29,719 --> 03:29:31,680 And in your staff report, 4426 03:29:31,719 --> 03:29:38,680 I itemize kind of the sequence of regional retail activity, 4427 03:29:38,719 --> 03:29:41,680 likely starting with the Razor Ranch areas 4428 03:29:41,719 --> 03:29:46,680 going all the way down to the Denton Regional Hospital. 4429 03:29:46,719 --> 03:29:50,680 When we look at adjacent uses to the proposed site, 4430 03:29:50,719 --> 03:29:52,680 there is a gas station 4431 03:29:52,719 --> 03:29:57,680 on the southeast southwest corner of 380 and University, 4432 03:29:57,719 --> 03:29:59,680 380 and 35. 4433 03:29:59,719 --> 03:30:02,680 We are processing building permits 4434 03:30:02,719 --> 03:30:05,680 for a future vehicle repair 4435 03:30:05,719 --> 03:30:09,680 just north, just south of the gas station. 4436 03:30:09,719 --> 03:30:12,680 Next in line is a commercial warehouse storage area 4437 03:30:12,719 --> 03:30:15,680 that has some retail activity to it 4438 03:30:15,719 --> 03:30:21,680 in conjunction to the warehouse retail storage use. 4439 03:30:21,719 --> 03:30:26,680 Below that is the anticipated proposed Cavender site. 4440 03:30:26,719 --> 03:30:27,680 Professional office, 4441 03:30:27,719 --> 03:30:30,680 there's a small little office complex, 4442 03:30:30,719 --> 03:30:33,680 one-story office building further south, 4443 03:30:33,719 --> 03:30:37,680 and then even further south of that is Light Manufacturing, 4444 03:30:37,719 --> 03:30:41,680 which is off the spur of the railroad track, 4445 03:30:41,719 --> 03:30:44,680 which kind of divides the site. 4446 03:30:44,719 --> 03:30:46,680 When we look at that division, 4447 03:30:46,719 --> 03:30:49,680 we can see that the railroad line is an appropriate divider 4448 03:30:49,719 --> 03:30:54,680 between industrial land uses and commercial land uses. 4449 03:30:54,719 --> 03:30:58,680 The rezoning is only for the 2.9 acres 4450 03:30:58,719 --> 03:31:01,680 for the Cavender's retail store, 4451 03:31:01,719 --> 03:31:04,680 adjacent uses to the south 4452 03:31:04,719 --> 03:31:08,680 or property to the south is still currently zoned ICE, 4453 03:31:08,719 --> 03:31:13,680 but I wanted to highlight that the city anticipates 4454 03:31:13,719 --> 03:31:16,680 future retail activity in this area, 4455 03:31:16,719 --> 03:31:22,680 and we would consider RCC an appropriate zoning district 4456 03:31:22,719 --> 03:31:24,680 when such uses come into play. 4457 03:31:24,719 --> 03:31:29,680 But as of now, the majority owner of this land 4458 03:31:29,719 --> 03:31:34,680 wishes to maximize the availability of land and zoning 4459 03:31:34,719 --> 03:31:39,680 to his benefit by not rezoning at this time. 4460 03:31:39,719 --> 03:31:45,680 Land use per the didn't plan 2030 4461 03:31:45,719 --> 03:31:49,680 indicates that this is a regional mixed use on this side 4462 03:31:49,719 --> 03:31:51,680 on the east side of the railroad tracks, 4463 03:31:51,719 --> 03:31:54,680 which is that dash dotted line. 4464 03:31:54,719 --> 03:31:57,680 In west of the rail line is a category called 4465 03:31:57,719 --> 03:31:58,680 Industrial Commerce, 4466 03:31:58,719 --> 03:32:02,680 which meets the industrial uses on that side. 4467 03:32:02,719 --> 03:32:05,680 So rezoning to RCCD is consistent 4468 03:32:05,719 --> 03:32:07,680 with regional mixed use, 4469 03:32:07,719 --> 03:32:12,680 and that's a very important future land use category. 4470 03:32:12,719 --> 03:32:16,680 The considerations for the rezoning submitted to you 4471 03:32:16,719 --> 03:32:19,680 that RCCD would permit commercial 4472 03:32:19,719 --> 03:32:22,680 and retail uses without zoning limitations. 4473 03:32:22,719 --> 03:32:25,680 RCCD zoning has been used 4474 03:32:25,719 --> 03:32:29,680 as the predominant rezoning classification 4475 03:32:29,719 --> 03:32:34,680 for regional commercial areas along I-35. 4476 03:32:34,719 --> 03:32:37,680 The railroad line is an appropriate divider 4477 03:32:37,719 --> 03:32:39,680 between industrial land uses 4478 03:32:39,719 --> 03:32:40,680 and the commercial land uses 4479 03:32:40,719 --> 03:32:43,680 with the frontage on I-35. 4480 03:32:43,719 --> 03:32:45,680 And thus, reasonable development 4481 03:32:45,719 --> 03:32:49,680 and economic pattern suggest using the I-35 frontage 4482 03:32:49,719 --> 03:32:50,680 for commercial activity 4483 03:32:50,719 --> 03:32:52,680 instead of industrial support services, 4484 03:32:52,719 --> 03:32:57,680 and it is consistent with the future land use map. 4485 03:32:57,719 --> 03:32:59,680 Staff uses the criteria for approval 4486 03:32:59,719 --> 03:33:03,680 within the DIN development code 3534B2, 4487 03:33:03,719 --> 03:33:05,680 which lists the two points there, 4488 03:33:05,719 --> 03:33:07,680 and the staff finds that this request 4489 03:33:07,719 --> 03:33:11,680 meets those criteria for approval. 4490 03:33:11,719 --> 03:33:13,680 We did do public notifications, 4491 03:33:13,719 --> 03:33:14,680 where as you can see, 4492 03:33:14,719 --> 03:33:17,680 there was kind of limited properties. 4493 03:33:17,719 --> 03:33:21,680 Most of them were just commercial viable properties. 4494 03:33:21,719 --> 03:33:24,680 Four notices within 200 feet 4495 03:33:24,719 --> 03:33:28,680 and five notices within 500 feet, 4496 03:33:28,719 --> 03:33:32,680 and the one in favor was the majority property owner. 4497 03:33:32,719 --> 03:33:34,680 So based on the considerations 4498 03:33:34,719 --> 03:33:35,680 of the DIN development code, 4499 03:33:35,719 --> 03:33:37,680 staff recommends approval, 4500 03:33:37,719 --> 03:33:42,680 and I can stand for any questions you may have. 4501 03:33:42,719 --> 03:33:47,680 Questions for staff? 4502 03:33:47,719 --> 03:33:48,680 Thank you, Ross. 4503 03:33:48,719 --> 03:33:51,680 Thank you. 4504 03:33:51,719 --> 03:33:52,680 This is a public hearing. 4505 03:33:52,719 --> 03:33:55,680 I do not have any cards on this item. 4506 03:33:55,719 --> 03:33:57,680 If there's anyone that would like to speak, 4507 03:33:57,719 --> 03:33:58,680 applicant or anyone else 4508 03:33:58,719 --> 03:34:01,680 that would like to speak for or against this project, 4509 03:34:01,719 --> 03:34:03,680 please approach the podium. 4510 03:34:03,719 --> 03:34:05,680 Give your name and address, 4511 03:34:05,719 --> 03:34:06,680 and if you do speak, 4512 03:34:06,719 --> 03:34:08,680 please fill out a card for us. 4513 03:34:08,719 --> 03:34:09,680 Thank you. 4514 03:34:09,719 --> 03:34:10,680 Good evening, commissioners. 4515 03:34:10,719 --> 03:34:11,680 My name is Juan Vasquez. 4516 03:34:11,719 --> 03:34:12,680 The Vasquez Engineering, 4517 03:34:12,719 --> 03:34:15,680 1919 South Shiloh Road, 4518 03:34:15,719 --> 03:34:17,680 Suite 440, Garland, Texas. 4519 03:34:17,719 --> 03:34:21,680 I'm a civil engineer for Cavenders Boots City. 4520 03:34:21,719 --> 03:34:23,680 Cavenders is vested in the property 4521 03:34:23,719 --> 03:34:25,680 as they own the property, 4522 03:34:25,719 --> 03:34:28,680 and so they're committed to the site, 4523 03:34:28,719 --> 03:34:31,680 and they've committed to myself, 4524 03:34:31,719 --> 03:34:33,680 and to the project architect. 4525 03:34:33,719 --> 03:34:36,680 They want a store open this year. 4526 03:34:36,719 --> 03:34:38,680 We work closely with staff. 4527 03:34:38,719 --> 03:34:40,680 We also work with the property owner 4528 03:34:40,719 --> 03:34:42,680 who sold the property to Cavenders, 4529 03:34:42,719 --> 03:34:46,680 and so they're in favor of our rezoning proposal. 4530 03:34:46,719 --> 03:34:49,680 They're not ready to come in with us at this time 4531 03:34:49,719 --> 03:34:51,680 because we're such in a hurry to get started, 4532 03:34:51,719 --> 03:34:54,680 and we want to get the store open this year. 4533 03:34:54,719 --> 03:34:56,680 If you have any questions you might have, 4534 03:34:56,719 --> 03:34:58,680 also the project architect for Cavenders 4535 03:34:58,719 --> 03:35:00,680 is also here with us today. 4536 03:35:00,719 --> 03:35:04,680 Any questions for the applicant? 4537 03:35:04,719 --> 03:35:05,680 No? 4538 03:35:05,719 --> 03:35:08,680 Thank you, sir. 4539 03:35:08,719 --> 03:35:10,680 Again, this is a public hearing. 4540 03:35:10,719 --> 03:35:12,680 Anyone who would like to speak on this item, 4541 03:35:12,719 --> 03:35:16,680 please come forward at this time. 4542 03:35:16,719 --> 03:35:19,680 Seeing none, I will close the public hearing 4543 03:35:19,719 --> 03:35:27,680 at 855 and open the floor for a motion or discussion. 4544 03:35:27,719 --> 03:35:29,680 Commissioner Dudowitz. 4545 03:35:29,719 --> 03:35:31,680 I move we approve the recommendation 4546 03:35:31,719 --> 03:35:33,680 for the rezoning as submitted. 4547 03:35:33,719 --> 03:35:35,680 Thank you. 4548 03:35:35,719 --> 03:35:37,680 Commissioner Bribble. 4549 03:35:37,719 --> 03:35:38,680 I'll second that. 4550 03:35:38,719 --> 03:35:40,680 It seems like a smart location to put something like that 4551 03:35:40,719 --> 03:35:42,680 right on the front engine next to Razor Ranch, 4552 03:35:42,719 --> 03:35:45,680 so I'm in full support. 4553 03:35:45,719 --> 03:35:46,680 I have a first and a second. 4554 03:35:46,719 --> 03:35:52,680 Is there any further discussion? 4555 03:35:52,719 --> 03:35:54,680 Seeing none, I call for a vote on the board. 4556 03:36:00,719 --> 03:36:02,680 Motion carries 7-0. 4557 03:36:02,719 --> 03:36:03,680 Congratulations. 4558 03:36:03,719 --> 03:36:08,680 Hurry up and build it. 4559 03:36:08,719 --> 03:36:13,680 Sorry we didn't change the order. 4560 03:36:13,719 --> 03:36:14,680 Apologies. 4561 03:36:14,719 --> 03:36:18,680 We're not done yet. 4562 03:36:18,719 --> 03:36:23,680 All right. 4563 03:36:23,719 --> 03:36:29,680 Moves us to our concluding items for this evening. 4564 03:36:29,719 --> 03:36:31,680 Before we get to that, just as a point of order, 4565 03:36:31,719 --> 03:36:35,680 I want to address something that we discussed on item 4A, 4566 03:36:35,719 --> 03:36:38,680 and Commissioner Taylor's question. 4567 03:36:38,719 --> 03:36:44,680 It looks like in 35.3.4.C.6 of the Denton Development Code, 4568 03:36:44,719 --> 03:36:46,680 it would be a wait period, 4569 03:36:46,719 --> 03:36:50,680 even though it's considered both the DDC amendment 4570 03:36:50,719 --> 03:36:51,680 and the zoning document, 4571 03:36:51,719 --> 03:36:53,680 they're all under the zoning amendment procedure, 4572 03:36:53,719 --> 03:36:57,680 and that requires 12-month wait period after denial. 4573 03:36:57,719 --> 03:37:00,680 Does that--that's after denial by city council? 4574 03:37:00,719 --> 03:37:02,680 By city council, not PNZ. 4575 03:37:02,719 --> 03:37:04,680 So they still are not in a position 4576 03:37:04,719 --> 03:37:07,680 where they, like, tomorrow would have to wait 12 months 4577 03:37:07,719 --> 03:37:09,680 to come up back with an adapted plan? 4578 03:37:09,719 --> 03:37:10,680 Correct. 4579 03:37:10,719 --> 03:37:13,680 They could actually withdraw their application at this time 4580 03:37:13,719 --> 03:37:14,680 and avoid that. 4581 03:37:14,719 --> 03:37:15,680 Okay. 4582 03:37:15,719 --> 03:37:17,680 But if they would have council 4583 03:37:17,719 --> 03:37:20,680 with their current plan and council denied it, 4584 03:37:20,719 --> 03:37:21,680 then they'd have to wait 12 months 4585 03:37:21,719 --> 03:37:22,680 before they could come back. 4586 03:37:22,719 --> 03:37:25,680 And could they modify their plan as it goes to-- 4587 03:37:25,719 --> 03:37:26,680 Substantially. 4588 03:37:26,719 --> 03:37:28,680 It has to be substantially modified. 4589 03:37:28,719 --> 03:37:31,680 Could they modify their proposal 4590 03:37:31,719 --> 03:37:34,680 before it goes to council? 4591 03:37:34,719 --> 03:37:35,680 We would have to-- 4592 03:37:35,719 --> 03:37:36,680 I'm gonna bring it back here. 4593 03:37:36,719 --> 03:37:38,680 --renotify that if there were any discrepancies 4594 03:37:38,719 --> 03:37:40,680 or changes to what we've already noted. 4595 03:37:40,719 --> 03:37:42,680 They would have to withdraw it and resubmit. 4596 03:37:42,719 --> 03:37:44,680 Okay. All right. 4597 03:37:44,719 --> 03:37:45,680 Commissioner Donovan. 4598 03:37:45,719 --> 03:37:47,680 If I heard correctly, if they withdraw from-- 4599 03:37:47,719 --> 03:37:49,680 then they can start all over again? 4600 03:37:49,719 --> 03:37:50,680 No timetable. 4601 03:37:50,719 --> 03:37:51,680 Correct. 4602 03:37:51,719 --> 03:37:52,680 Okay. 4603 03:37:52,719 --> 03:37:53,680 Before council. 4604 03:37:53,719 --> 03:37:54,680 Before council. 4605 03:37:54,719 --> 03:37:55,680 Before. 4606 03:37:55,719 --> 03:37:56,680 Right. 4607 03:37:56,719 --> 03:37:58,680 They have to withdraw before council. 4608 03:37:58,719 --> 03:37:59,680 Right. 4609 03:37:59,719 --> 03:38:01,680 Because we're only recommending denial. 4610 03:38:01,719 --> 03:38:03,680 So once it's officially denied, it's too late, 4611 03:38:03,719 --> 03:38:05,680 they're gonna have to abide by the waiting period. 4612 03:38:05,719 --> 03:38:06,680 Thank you. 4613 03:38:06,719 --> 03:38:08,680 And just for future reference, this is-- 4614 03:38:08,719 --> 03:38:09,680 Mr. Tyler. 4615 03:38:09,719 --> 03:38:10,680 Thank you, Chair. 4616 03:38:10,719 --> 03:38:14,680 This is for any-- basically any zoning-related change. 4617 03:38:14,719 --> 03:38:15,680 Any zoning-related change. 4618 03:38:15,719 --> 03:38:16,680 Okay. Thank you. 4619 03:38:16,719 --> 03:38:18,680 Or DDC amendment. 4620 03:38:18,719 --> 03:38:19,680 Okay. 4621 03:38:19,719 --> 03:38:22,680 [laughter] 4622 03:38:22,719 --> 03:38:29,680 Okay. Back to concluding items featured in the-- 4623 03:38:29,719 --> 03:38:31,680 Commissioner Tyler. 4624 03:38:31,719 --> 03:38:32,680 Thank you, Chair. 4625 03:38:32,719 --> 03:38:34,680 As we discussed in work session, 4626 03:38:34,719 --> 03:38:37,680 I'd like to see if staff could get-- 4627 03:38:37,719 --> 03:38:42,680 put together a proposal to amend the DDC parking standards 4628 03:38:42,719 --> 03:38:47,680 for bike parking as appropriate. 4629 03:38:51,719 --> 03:38:53,680 Commissioner Tyler, we will go ahead 4630 03:38:53,719 --> 03:38:55,680 and revisit the parking standards 4631 03:38:55,719 --> 03:38:58,680 to accommodate bike parking. 4632 03:38:58,719 --> 03:39:00,680 I do want to apprise the commission 4633 03:39:00,719 --> 03:39:03,879 that we are in the process of revising our scope of 4634 03:39:03,879 --> 03:39:04,680 services 4635 03:39:04,719 --> 03:39:07,680 to potentially-- again, this is still in discussion, 4636 03:39:07,719 --> 03:39:13,680 so to potentially rework or revisit the amendment 4637 03:39:13,719 --> 03:39:16,680 to the Denton Development Code. 4638 03:39:16,719 --> 03:39:19,680 If this is an item that is of immediate urgency, 4639 03:39:19,719 --> 03:39:21,680 we can go ahead and do that. 4640 03:39:21,719 --> 03:39:24,680 But we do anticipate within the next few months 4641 03:39:24,719 --> 03:39:29,250 or within another quarter to actually initiate that program 4642 03:39:29,250 --> 03:39:29,680 . 4643 03:39:29,719 --> 03:39:31,680 So if you would give staff the liberty to, 4644 03:39:31,719 --> 03:39:33,680 one, revisit the matrix that's already established 4645 03:39:33,719 --> 03:39:36,680 to see priority, and then with this, 4646 03:39:36,719 --> 03:39:38,680 we can go ahead and start looking at this 4647 03:39:38,719 --> 03:39:40,680 and inserting this as an immediate DDC amendment 4648 03:39:40,719 --> 03:39:43,680 if that is the wish of the commission. 4649 03:39:47,719 --> 03:39:48,680 All right. 4650 03:39:48,719 --> 03:39:49,680 Do you have a wish now? 4651 03:39:49,719 --> 03:39:50,680 Yes, please. 4652 03:39:50,719 --> 03:39:53,680 [laughter] 4653 03:39:53,719 --> 03:39:59,180 Well, it would be my wish that this be a small few 4654 03:39:59,180 --> 03:40:00,680 sentences 4655 03:40:00,719 --> 03:40:01,680 that can be quickly inserted. 4656 03:40:01,719 --> 03:40:02,680 Noted. 4657 03:40:02,719 --> 03:40:04,680 [laughter] 4658 03:40:04,719 --> 03:40:05,680 Well done. 4659 03:40:05,719 --> 03:40:11,680 [laughter] 4660 03:40:11,719 --> 03:40:12,680 Commissioner Rossell. 4661 03:40:12,719 --> 03:40:13,680 Thank you, Chair. 4662 03:40:13,719 --> 03:40:15,680 Maybe Commissioner Taylor could provide an update to this. 4663 03:40:15,719 --> 03:40:18,680 But this last project that came across, 4664 03:40:18,719 --> 03:40:22,680 this ICE rezoning that's stripped to the west, 4665 03:40:22,719 --> 03:40:24,680 seems like a perfect opportunity for the subcommittee 4666 03:40:24,719 --> 03:40:27,680 that was formed to proactively get that rezoned. 4667 03:40:27,719 --> 03:40:29,680 So I'd love to raise the priority 4668 03:40:29,719 --> 03:40:30,680 of that subcommittee meeting 4669 03:40:30,719 --> 03:40:33,680 so we can start getting stuff like this knocked out. 4670 03:40:33,719 --> 03:40:36,680 I think it seemed like that's a low-hanging fruit 4671 03:40:36,719 --> 03:40:38,680 that maybe we can attack. 4672 03:40:38,719 --> 03:40:40,680 In fact, staff completely concurs. 4673 03:40:40,719 --> 03:40:41,680 That is what we were talking about. 4674 03:40:41,719 --> 03:40:43,680 And we're going to start scheduling a meeting 4675 03:40:43,719 --> 03:40:45,680 and get this process going and initiate 4676 03:40:45,719 --> 03:40:46,680 with one of these programs, 4677 03:40:46,719 --> 03:40:48,680 this project that came forward. 4678 03:40:48,719 --> 03:40:49,680 Not this project, but the surrounding project. 4679 03:40:49,719 --> 03:40:50,680 Perfect. 4680 03:40:50,719 --> 03:40:51,680 Thank you. 4681 03:40:51,719 --> 03:40:53,680 Commissioner Burrell. 4682 03:40:53,719 --> 03:40:55,680 Thank you, Chair. 4683 03:40:55,719 --> 03:40:58,680 I found Julie Anderson's presentation riveting. 4684 03:40:58,719 --> 03:41:00,680 I have waited five years to hear from a bike 4685 03:41:00,719 --> 03:41:02,680 and pedestrian coordinator. 4686 03:41:02,719 --> 03:41:06,680 So I would really like for her to come back sooner 4687 03:41:06,719 --> 03:41:08,680 rather than later and for us to devote some time. 4688 03:41:08,719 --> 03:41:11,680 I mean, for the other commissioners, 4689 03:41:11,719 --> 03:41:14,680 you may have found a two or three page printed up handout 4690 03:41:14,719 --> 03:41:17,680 that was--I compiled that after a meeting 4691 03:41:17,719 --> 03:41:22,680 with two dozen or more cyclists of all abilities 4692 03:41:22,719 --> 03:41:23,680 just last night. 4693 03:41:23,719 --> 03:41:25,680 So there is clear community interest in this. 4694 03:41:25,719 --> 03:41:28,680 So please, Julie Anderson, come back and talk to us 4695 03:41:28,719 --> 03:41:30,680 because it's really important. 4696 03:41:30,719 --> 03:41:33,680 Thank you. 4697 03:41:33,719 --> 03:41:35,680 Commissioner Dudowitz. 4698 03:41:35,719 --> 03:41:38,680 Manala, you indicated something you're working on. 4699 03:41:38,719 --> 03:41:42,680 Does that include the commission's powers and duties 4700 03:41:42,719 --> 03:41:43,680 that I raised the question about 4701 03:41:43,719 --> 03:41:45,680 that you were going to find? 4702 03:41:45,719 --> 03:41:46,680 We have researched that. 4703 03:41:46,719 --> 03:41:48,680 In fact, a memo will be forthcoming 4704 03:41:48,719 --> 03:41:49,680 to the Planning and Zoning Commission 4705 03:41:49,719 --> 03:41:50,680 at the next meeting. 4706 03:41:50,719 --> 03:41:51,680 Okay. 4707 03:41:51,719 --> 03:41:53,680 But the current code says that we have certain duties. 4708 03:41:53,719 --> 03:41:54,680 Does it-- 4709 03:41:54,719 --> 03:41:55,680 Yes. 4710 03:41:55,719 --> 03:41:56,680 Okay. 4711 03:41:56,719 --> 03:41:57,680 And it outlines what those duties are 4712 03:41:57,719 --> 03:41:59,680 that it concurs with those duties 4713 03:41:59,719 --> 03:42:01,680 in addition to what the next steps are. 4714 03:42:01,719 --> 03:42:02,680 So it outlines the process. 4715 03:42:02,719 --> 03:42:03,680 Okay. 4716 03:42:03,719 --> 03:42:04,680 But there was another committee 4717 03:42:04,719 --> 03:42:06,680 or somebody that was also looking at it? 4718 03:42:06,719 --> 03:42:10,680 The Health and Building Standards Commission 4719 03:42:10,719 --> 03:42:15,680 is a commission that is appointed by the City Council 4720 03:42:15,719 --> 03:42:19,680 that if a building has been deemed hazardous or unsafe 4721 03:42:19,719 --> 03:42:25,680 that through a process of revitalization, 4722 03:42:25,719 --> 03:42:27,680 it is either fixed or it is demoed. 4723 03:42:27,719 --> 03:42:30,680 But that's a separate-- 4724 03:42:30,719 --> 03:42:31,680 But you'll fill us in on that. 4725 03:42:31,719 --> 03:42:32,680 Absolutely. 4726 03:42:32,719 --> 03:42:33,680 And it's outlined in the memo 4727 03:42:33,719 --> 03:42:34,680 that will come to you in-- 4728 03:42:34,719 --> 03:42:35,680 Thank you. 4729 03:42:35,719 --> 03:42:38,680 --in the first meeting in February. 4730 03:42:38,719 --> 03:42:40,680 Commissioner Beck. 4731 03:42:40,719 --> 03:42:42,680 I mentioned in the workshop 4732 03:42:42,719 --> 03:42:45,680 that I'm interested in getting Julie Anderson 4733 03:42:45,719 --> 03:42:49,680 to spend some of her money on educating commercial interest 4734 03:42:49,719 --> 03:42:50,680 to hit by-- 4735 03:42:50,719 --> 03:42:51,680 Would this be the-- 4736 03:42:51,719 --> 03:42:52,680 Commissioner Beck, 4737 03:42:52,719 --> 03:42:55,680 can you make sure your microphone's on? 4738 03:42:55,719 --> 03:42:56,680 Can you hear me? 4739 03:42:56,719 --> 03:42:57,680 We have a problem with that chair. 4740 03:42:57,719 --> 03:42:58,680 I think you need to get it to the microphone. 4741 03:42:58,719 --> 03:42:59,680 I know. 4742 03:42:59,719 --> 03:43:00,680 [laughter] 4743 03:43:00,719 --> 03:43:01,680 It's always that chair. 4744 03:43:01,719 --> 03:43:03,680 Anyway, let me restate. 4745 03:43:03,719 --> 03:43:04,680 I say in the workshop, 4746 03:43:04,719 --> 03:43:06,680 an interest in getting Julie Anderson 4747 03:43:06,719 --> 03:43:08,680 to spend some of her money on educating-- 4748 03:43:08,719 --> 03:43:10,680 getting print literature made up 4749 03:43:10,719 --> 03:43:12,680 to educate commercial interest 4750 03:43:12,719 --> 03:43:13,680 in getting bike racks. 4751 03:43:13,719 --> 03:43:14,680 Would this be the forum 4752 03:43:14,719 --> 03:43:17,680 where we could set something like that in motion? 4753 03:43:17,719 --> 03:43:19,680 Is she going to handle that on her own? 4754 03:43:19,719 --> 03:43:22,680 She can make that part of her next presentation. 4755 03:43:22,719 --> 03:43:23,680 Great. 4756 03:43:23,719 --> 03:43:26,680 We could advise her of the, you know-- 4757 03:43:26,719 --> 03:43:27,680 Okay. 4758 03:43:27,719 --> 03:43:28,680 --reminder of the discussion 4759 03:43:28,719 --> 03:43:29,680 that occurred at the work session 4760 03:43:29,719 --> 03:43:31,680 and see if she can incorporate that 4761 03:43:31,719 --> 03:43:32,680 in her discussion, 4762 03:43:32,719 --> 03:43:34,680 her second part of her discussion. 4763 03:43:34,719 --> 03:43:35,680 Good. 4764 03:43:35,719 --> 03:43:36,680 Just want to keep the fire burning on it. 4765 03:43:36,719 --> 03:43:37,680 Thank you. 4766 03:43:37,719 --> 03:43:40,680 Thank you. 4767 03:43:40,719 --> 03:43:43,680 Seeing no other concluding items, 4768 03:43:43,719 --> 03:43:47,680 we'll close the meeting at 9.05. 4769 03:43:47,719 --> 03:43:48,680 Thank you. 4770 03:43:48,719 --> 03:43:49,680 [inaudible] 4771 03:43:49,719 --> 03:43:50,680 Yep. 4772 03:44:07,719 --> 03:44:18,680 [no audio] 4773 03:44:18,719 --> 03:44:20,680 It's 9.13 4774 03:44:20,719 --> 03:44:23,680 and I'm going to call our work session back in order. 4775 03:44:23,719 --> 03:44:25,680 Do we need a notice about-- 4776 03:44:25,719 --> 03:44:28,680 notice publicly in a quorum again? 4777 03:44:28,719 --> 03:44:29,680 Or since we're-- 4778 03:44:29,719 --> 03:44:31,680 No, just work session. 4779 03:44:31,719 --> 03:44:34,680 Just call our work session back in order at 9.13. 4780 03:44:34,719 --> 03:44:36,680 And I think we have one other item 4781 03:44:36,719 --> 03:44:38,680 that we're going to go through this evening, 4782 03:44:38,719 --> 03:44:44,680 receive a report on item C. 4783 03:44:44,719 --> 03:44:46,680 Right. 4784 03:44:46,719 --> 03:44:47,680 If you recall, on December 9th, 4785 03:44:47,719 --> 03:44:48,680 we kind of came forward to you 4786 03:44:48,719 --> 03:44:51,680 and told you that this type of update was coming. 4787 03:44:51,719 --> 03:44:53,680 The intent of Brent's presentation, 4788 03:44:53,719 --> 03:44:54,680 that was item 2B, 4789 03:44:54,719 --> 03:44:55,680 was he was going to kind of set the stage 4790 03:44:55,719 --> 03:44:57,680 and tell you where we've been 4791 03:44:57,719 --> 03:45:00,680 since the DME first came to you in 2013, 4792 03:45:00,719 --> 03:45:01,680 for those of you that were here, 4793 03:45:01,719 --> 03:45:02,680 and explain why all these substations 4794 03:45:02,719 --> 03:45:03,680 are going to come forward. 4795 03:45:03,719 --> 03:45:05,680 We've had quite a bit. 4796 03:45:05,719 --> 03:45:06,680 We're not going to go into that. 4797 03:45:06,719 --> 03:45:08,680 But this has really come out of that whole process. 4798 03:45:08,719 --> 03:45:11,680 Council has asked us to look into this process 4799 03:45:11,719 --> 03:45:13,680 of kind of bringing some requirements 4800 03:45:13,719 --> 03:45:15,680 specific to substations. 4801 03:45:15,719 --> 03:45:16,680 Just kind of go over this quickly. 4802 03:45:16,719 --> 03:45:18,680 We're going to talk about existing requirements, 4803 03:45:18,719 --> 03:45:20,680 what we've done. 4804 03:45:20,719 --> 03:45:21,680 We're going to go into what that process means 4805 03:45:21,719 --> 03:45:23,680 and what the new process is going to look like 4806 03:45:23,719 --> 03:45:25,680 and that kind of framework. 4807 03:45:25,719 --> 03:45:27,680 What that means to requirements of the DDC 4808 03:45:27,719 --> 03:45:29,680 and lastly we'll get into the details 4809 03:45:29,719 --> 03:45:30,680 of what these documents are 4810 03:45:30,719 --> 03:45:33,680 that you received prior to the meeting. 4811 03:45:33,719 --> 03:45:34,680 Currently substations are permitted 4812 03:45:34,719 --> 03:45:36,680 only in the rural districts, 4813 03:45:36,719 --> 03:45:38,680 employment districts, or industrial centers. 4814 03:45:38,719 --> 03:45:40,680 It requires an SUP everywhere else, 4815 03:45:40,719 --> 03:45:42,680 the neighborhood mixed use centers 4816 03:45:42,719 --> 03:45:44,680 and the downtown university core. 4817 03:45:44,719 --> 03:45:47,680 So most of the substations that we've all seen 4818 03:45:47,719 --> 03:45:48,680 are in those districts. 4819 03:45:48,719 --> 03:45:51,680 There are six, how can I write, 4820 03:45:51,719 --> 03:45:56,680 seven that have been approved through an SUP already. 4821 03:45:56,719 --> 03:45:57,680 And there are several more that were permitted 4822 03:45:57,719 --> 03:46:01,680 in employment centers that you ought to never get to see. 4823 03:46:01,719 --> 03:46:03,680 But we've done a lot of these SUPs. 4824 03:46:03,719 --> 03:46:05,680 We've had consistent conditions throughout all of them 4825 03:46:05,719 --> 03:46:07,680 and it's always been a 10 foot masonry wall 4826 03:46:07,719 --> 03:46:09,680 on every substation. 4827 03:46:09,719 --> 03:46:12,680 And then these weren't specific conditions of the SUP 4828 03:46:12,719 --> 03:46:13,680 but with the site plans that were approved 4829 03:46:13,719 --> 03:46:16,680 we saw consistent buffers to residential zones, 4830 03:46:16,719 --> 03:46:18,680 comply with tree canopy coverage, 4831 03:46:18,719 --> 03:46:20,680 their driveways were DDC requirements 4832 03:46:20,719 --> 03:46:22,680 for some special considerations 4833 03:46:22,719 --> 03:46:23,680 and they always provided sidewalks. 4834 03:46:23,719 --> 03:46:27,680 So we're going to codify that to some degree. 4835 03:46:27,719 --> 03:46:28,680 This is the existing process 4836 03:46:28,719 --> 03:46:32,680 where that SUP falls into a VME process. 4837 03:46:32,719 --> 03:46:34,680 The first thing they do is they develop several options 4838 03:46:34,719 --> 03:46:37,680 for the site, typically three or four. 4839 03:46:37,719 --> 03:46:39,680 They'll take all those options to a neighborhood meeting, 4840 03:46:39,719 --> 03:46:41,680 a public open house, 4841 03:46:41,719 --> 03:46:44,680 and they'll notice everybody in the ranges of those sites. 4842 03:46:44,719 --> 03:46:46,680 Once they've kind of come up with taking that public input 4843 03:46:46,719 --> 03:46:47,680 as well as their cost analysis, 4844 03:46:47,719 --> 03:46:49,680 they'll take that to public hearings 4845 03:46:49,719 --> 03:46:51,680 of the public utility board and city council. 4846 03:46:51,719 --> 03:46:54,680 They pick a preferred site out of those three or four. 4847 03:46:54,719 --> 03:46:56,680 They then give VME the power to go forward 4848 03:46:56,719 --> 03:46:58,680 and negotiate a sales price. 4849 03:46:58,719 --> 03:46:59,680 If they agree to a sale price 4850 03:46:59,719 --> 03:47:02,680 where they ultimately have to come back for eminent domain, 4851 03:47:02,719 --> 03:47:04,680 they have to go back to public utility board 4852 03:47:04,719 --> 03:47:05,680 and city council for those purposes. 4853 03:47:05,719 --> 03:47:07,680 Those are two public hearings. 4854 03:47:07,719 --> 03:47:09,680 They go in, they purchase the site, they own it, 4855 03:47:09,719 --> 03:47:10,680 they do the final site design, 4856 03:47:10,719 --> 03:47:13,680 and then they come back to this board for an SUP, 4857 03:47:13,719 --> 03:47:16,680 re-notice all the neighborhoods. 4858 03:47:16,719 --> 03:47:18,680 And sometimes that could be years apart, 4859 03:47:18,719 --> 03:47:20,680 and so at that time the neighborhoods 4860 03:47:20,719 --> 03:47:21,680 forgot what's going on. 4861 03:47:21,719 --> 03:47:23,680 It seemed to come back up that this SUP 4862 03:47:23,719 --> 03:47:25,680 is whether this substation is going to go here or not, 4863 03:47:25,719 --> 03:47:27,680 and it's really not in question anymore. 4864 03:47:27,719 --> 03:47:29,680 It's really about the site design. 4865 03:47:29,719 --> 03:47:31,680 And if they get the SUP, the site's constructed. 4866 03:47:31,719 --> 03:47:34,680 So what we want to do with this process 4867 03:47:34,719 --> 03:47:36,680 is kind of flip these around 4868 03:47:36,719 --> 03:47:39,680 so that we're putting that notification 4869 03:47:39,719 --> 03:47:41,680 that's equivalent to what they would do with an SUP 4870 03:47:41,719 --> 03:47:44,680 prior to city council giving approval to purchase the site. 4871 03:47:44,719 --> 03:47:48,680 And if they do that, then they no longer have to do an SUP 4872 03:47:48,719 --> 03:47:49,680 but instead a site plan 4873 03:47:49,719 --> 03:47:53,680 with some criteria that we're going to establish here. 4874 03:47:53,719 --> 03:47:54,680 Can you go back to that, please? 4875 03:47:54,719 --> 03:47:55,680 I'm sorry. 4876 03:47:55,719 --> 03:47:56,680 Sure. 4877 03:47:56,719 --> 03:47:57,680 So the top line is over here. 4878 03:47:57,719 --> 03:47:58,680 Commissioner Dudowitz. 4879 03:47:58,719 --> 03:48:00,680 Yes, the top line is what we're doing now. 4880 03:48:00,719 --> 03:48:02,680 And then it comes down to the second line. 4881 03:48:02,719 --> 03:48:03,680 This is what we're proposing. 4882 03:48:03,719 --> 03:48:05,680 And I don't see P and Z in that process. 4883 03:48:05,719 --> 03:48:06,680 Right. 4884 03:48:06,719 --> 03:48:10,680 You'll have P and Z in terms of a site plan potentially. 4885 03:48:10,719 --> 03:48:11,680 We'll get into that in a bit. 4886 03:48:11,719 --> 03:48:13,680 But we're going to codify all these conditions 4887 03:48:13,719 --> 03:48:14,680 that we've done through the seven SUPs 4888 03:48:14,719 --> 03:48:16,680 so that hopefully we can take that out. 4889 03:48:16,719 --> 03:48:17,680 But really the important factor 4890 03:48:17,719 --> 03:48:19,680 is we're putting the public hearing process 4891 03:48:19,719 --> 03:48:20,680 and all that notification input 4892 03:48:20,719 --> 03:48:22,680 before the site's even purchased 4893 03:48:22,719 --> 03:48:24,680 where it makes more logical sense. 4894 03:48:24,719 --> 03:48:26,680 That's really what we're trying to do. 4895 03:48:28,719 --> 03:48:30,680 So to do that, we're going to add a new use. 4896 03:48:30,719 --> 03:48:31,680 We're going to pull it. 4897 03:48:31,719 --> 03:48:32,680 Right now it's a basic utility. 4898 03:48:32,719 --> 03:48:33,680 Everything, gas, water, electric, 4899 03:48:33,719 --> 03:48:34,680 is a basic utility. 4900 03:48:34,719 --> 03:48:35,680 We're going to pull it out 4901 03:48:35,719 --> 03:48:36,680 and make a new use onto itself 4902 03:48:36,719 --> 03:48:38,680 for substations and switch stations. 4903 03:48:38,719 --> 03:48:39,680 We're going to add specific standards 4904 03:48:39,719 --> 03:48:41,680 for screening, buffering, access. 4905 03:48:41,719 --> 03:48:42,680 We'll get into all that. 4906 03:48:42,719 --> 03:48:45,680 And we're going to create a site plan process. 4907 03:48:45,719 --> 03:48:47,680 And then what we're adding is a new limitation 4908 03:48:47,719 --> 03:48:48,680 in the zoning. 4909 03:48:48,719 --> 03:48:50,680 So where it currently says an SUP is required, 4910 03:48:50,719 --> 03:48:53,680 we're going to say an SUP is required 4911 03:48:53,719 --> 03:48:55,680 unless you're part of a CIP master plan, 4912 03:48:55,719 --> 03:48:57,680 unless you've done the public notification, 4913 03:48:57,719 --> 03:49:00,680 and you have to have a site plan approved by P&Z. 4914 03:49:00,719 --> 03:49:01,680 If you can't do all that, 4915 03:49:01,719 --> 03:49:04,680 the SUP is still required. 4916 03:49:04,719 --> 03:49:06,680 This is just what that limitation looks like. 4917 03:49:06,719 --> 03:49:08,680 Again, the notice is the same thing as an SUP. 4918 03:49:08,719 --> 03:49:09,680 200, 500 foot notices, 4919 03:49:09,719 --> 03:49:10,680 a sign on the property, 4920 03:49:10,719 --> 03:49:12,680 and actually neighborhood meetings required 4921 03:49:12,719 --> 03:49:13,680 in this case too. 4922 03:49:13,719 --> 03:49:17,680 So that's the A, B, and C. 4923 03:49:17,719 --> 03:49:18,680 That's all in your backup that you were given 4924 03:49:18,719 --> 03:49:20,680 if you want to look in more detail. 4925 03:49:20,719 --> 03:49:23,680 How that looks visually, start here. 4926 03:49:23,719 --> 03:49:25,680 If you've done the public notification, 4927 03:49:25,719 --> 03:49:26,680 if you have not, 4928 03:49:26,719 --> 03:49:27,680 you go to an SUP. 4929 03:49:27,719 --> 03:49:29,680 Once that SUP is approved, 4930 03:49:29,719 --> 03:49:31,680 then you get a billing permit through staff. 4931 03:49:31,719 --> 03:49:32,680 If you did do all the notification, 4932 03:49:32,719 --> 03:49:35,680 the 200, 500 neighborhood meeting, 4933 03:49:35,719 --> 03:49:36,680 then you go to this box, 4934 03:49:36,719 --> 03:49:37,680 and that's all the site design criteria 4935 03:49:37,719 --> 03:49:40,680 that we're going to get to here in just a minute. 4936 03:49:40,719 --> 03:49:41,680 If you meet all that, 4937 03:49:41,719 --> 03:49:44,680 then the site plan can be approved by staff. 4938 03:49:44,719 --> 03:49:46,680 If for some reason you cannot meet this criteria, 4939 03:49:46,719 --> 03:49:48,680 then it has to come before you all for consideration, 4940 03:49:48,719 --> 03:49:50,680 similar to an alternative development plan. 4941 03:49:50,719 --> 03:49:54,680 It's kind of the same process. 4942 03:49:54,719 --> 03:49:55,680 What this means is that the top process, 4943 03:49:55,719 --> 03:49:57,680 because the notification has to be part of a CIP 4944 03:49:57,719 --> 03:49:59,680 approved by council, 4945 03:49:59,719 --> 03:50:00,680 because it has to be noticed 4946 03:50:00,719 --> 03:50:03,680 that only DME can really do that top process. 4947 03:50:03,719 --> 03:50:06,680 All the other private utilities like COSERV, 4948 03:50:06,719 --> 03:50:10,680 they have to go the SUP route. 4949 03:50:10,719 --> 03:50:12,680 Everybody tracking so far? 4950 03:50:12,719 --> 03:50:14,680 Good. 4951 03:50:14,719 --> 03:50:15,680 Commissioner Bruegel. 4952 03:50:15,719 --> 03:50:16,680 Thank you, Chair. 4953 03:50:16,719 --> 03:50:17,680 Public notification, 4954 03:50:17,719 --> 03:50:19,680 are you talking about just the mailers? 4955 03:50:19,719 --> 03:50:22,680 People, are we talking about a public hearing? 4956 03:50:22,719 --> 03:50:25,680 It is notification that the public hearing 4957 03:50:25,719 --> 03:50:27,680 is happening at PUB and City Council 4958 03:50:27,719 --> 03:50:29,680 for the purchase of the site 4959 03:50:29,719 --> 03:50:31,680 for specifically a substation. 4960 03:50:31,719 --> 03:50:32,680 I see. 4961 03:50:32,719 --> 03:50:33,680 Right. 4962 03:50:33,719 --> 03:50:34,680 We're saying, everybody listen, 4963 03:50:34,719 --> 03:50:35,680 we're buying the site. 4964 03:50:35,719 --> 03:50:36,680 We want to put a substation here. 4965 03:50:36,719 --> 03:50:37,680 Come out and tell us 4966 03:50:37,719 --> 03:50:39,680 whether you think a substation is good or not 4967 03:50:39,719 --> 03:50:40,680 before we even buy it. 4968 03:50:40,719 --> 03:50:42,680 That's a great idea. 4969 03:50:42,719 --> 03:50:44,680 The public hearing is going to happen now 4970 03:50:44,719 --> 03:50:48,680 with the PUB and City Council 4971 03:50:48,719 --> 03:50:50,680 and not through... 4972 03:50:50,719 --> 03:50:52,680 wouldn't necessarily be looking for... 4973 03:50:52,719 --> 03:50:53,680 on the top line, 4974 03:50:53,719 --> 03:50:54,680 they wouldn't be looking for an SUP 4975 03:50:54,719 --> 03:50:55,680 through planning and zoning. 4976 03:50:55,719 --> 03:50:56,680 Correct. 4977 03:50:56,719 --> 03:50:57,680 Okay. 4978 03:50:57,719 --> 03:50:58,680 Thank you. 4979 03:50:58,719 --> 03:50:59,680 And the reason for that is, 4980 03:50:59,719 --> 03:51:00,680 I'm sorry, 4981 03:51:00,719 --> 03:51:01,680 the reason for that is 4982 03:51:01,719 --> 03:51:03,680 because in their current process 4983 03:51:03,719 --> 03:51:04,680 they already do that. 4984 03:51:04,719 --> 03:51:05,680 So once they've had their... 4985 03:51:05,719 --> 03:51:07,680 they've vetted the property, 4986 03:51:07,719 --> 03:51:09,680 they've met with the neighborhood, 4987 03:51:09,719 --> 03:51:11,680 then they go back to the City Council... 4988 03:51:11,719 --> 03:51:13,680 the PUB and the City Council 4989 03:51:13,719 --> 03:51:14,680 saying this is the property 4990 03:51:14,719 --> 03:51:16,680 we're going to purchase for the substation 4991 03:51:16,719 --> 03:51:18,680 and then we've got an extra added step 4992 03:51:18,719 --> 03:51:19,680 and then it says, okay, 4993 03:51:19,719 --> 03:51:20,680 all that's done. 4994 03:51:20,719 --> 03:51:21,680 City Council has agreed. 4995 03:51:21,719 --> 03:51:23,680 PUB has agreed. 4996 03:51:23,719 --> 03:51:25,680 The community neighborhood 4997 03:51:25,719 --> 03:51:26,680 has been informed. 4998 03:51:26,719 --> 03:51:28,680 Discussion has occurred. 4999 03:51:28,719 --> 03:51:29,680 And then they come back in for an SUP 5000 03:51:29,719 --> 03:51:32,680 which is another added public hearing step. 5001 03:51:32,719 --> 03:51:33,680 And in this instance, 5002 03:51:33,719 --> 03:51:35,680 because all that occurs, 5003 03:51:35,719 --> 03:51:36,680 the public notification criteria 5004 03:51:36,719 --> 03:51:40,680 are addressed and met beforehand. 5005 03:51:40,719 --> 03:51:42,680 Does it really warrant... 5006 03:51:42,719 --> 03:51:43,680 the statement we're making is 5007 03:51:43,719 --> 03:51:45,680 does it really warrant to have 5008 03:51:45,719 --> 03:51:48,680 the SUP specific use permit process 5009 03:51:48,719 --> 03:51:50,680 occur at that point 5010 03:51:50,719 --> 03:51:51,680 through another public hearing process? 5011 03:51:51,719 --> 03:51:53,680 So the public has two opportunities 5012 03:51:53,719 --> 03:51:54,680 two separate public hearings, 5013 03:51:54,719 --> 03:51:56,680 one at PUB, one at City Council. 5014 03:51:56,719 --> 03:51:57,680 If that moves forward, 5015 03:51:57,719 --> 03:52:00,680 then the City will purchase the land 5016 03:52:00,719 --> 03:52:03,680 and not before that public hearing process. 5017 03:52:03,719 --> 03:52:05,680 Am I understanding that correctly? 5018 03:52:05,719 --> 03:52:06,680 Yes. 5019 03:52:06,719 --> 03:52:07,680 Okay. Thank you. 5020 03:52:07,719 --> 03:52:09,680 A couple questions. 5021 03:52:09,719 --> 03:52:10,680 Commissioner Rossell. 5022 03:52:10,719 --> 03:52:11,680 Thank you. 5023 03:52:11,719 --> 03:52:12,680 Can you go back one slide? 5024 03:52:12,719 --> 03:52:14,680 Sure. 5025 03:52:14,719 --> 03:52:16,680 So you're going to place a signed 5026 03:52:16,719 --> 03:52:17,680 advertising public hearing 5027 03:52:17,719 --> 03:52:19,680 on the property you haven't purchased yet? 5028 03:52:19,719 --> 03:52:20,680 Yes. 5029 03:52:20,719 --> 03:52:21,680 Is that legal? 5030 03:52:21,719 --> 03:52:22,680 Same with the zoning case 5031 03:52:22,719 --> 03:52:23,680 or... 5032 03:52:23,719 --> 03:52:24,680 D&E already does this, right? 5033 03:52:24,719 --> 03:52:26,680 So they go out and put signs 5034 03:52:26,719 --> 03:52:27,680 on the property they're going to 5035 03:52:27,719 --> 03:52:28,680 do negotiations with 5036 03:52:28,719 --> 03:52:30,680 or looking to buy. 5037 03:52:30,719 --> 03:52:32,680 Does this hinder the negotiation 5038 03:52:32,719 --> 03:52:34,680 to say, "We're going to buy it." 5039 03:52:34,719 --> 03:52:35,680 I mean, if I was the property owner 5040 03:52:35,719 --> 03:52:37,680 and I knew all this has already happened 5041 03:52:37,719 --> 03:52:38,680 and you have to buy it, 5042 03:52:38,719 --> 03:52:41,680 I'm going to put a premium on that property. 5043 03:52:41,719 --> 03:52:44,680 Are we losing some economic value here 5044 03:52:44,719 --> 03:52:46,680 by identifying the site so explicitly? 5045 03:52:46,719 --> 03:52:47,680 Let's take it back 5046 03:52:47,719 --> 03:52:48,680 because there's another step 5047 03:52:48,719 --> 03:52:49,680 before all that. 5048 03:52:49,719 --> 03:52:51,680 The preferred site selection 5049 03:52:51,719 --> 03:52:52,680 is right here. 5050 03:52:52,719 --> 03:52:54,680 So we've got four or five options. 5051 03:52:54,719 --> 03:52:55,680 We haven't agreed to a price. 5052 03:52:55,719 --> 03:52:56,680 We haven't agreed to anything. 5053 03:52:56,719 --> 03:52:57,680 We just say, "This is the one we want." 5054 03:52:57,719 --> 03:52:58,680 Go and negotiate. 5055 03:52:58,719 --> 03:52:59,680 They do negotiations 5056 03:52:59,719 --> 03:53:01,680 before they notice it in public. 5057 03:53:01,719 --> 03:53:02,680 So chances are they come back 5058 03:53:02,719 --> 03:53:03,680 to counsel in a closed session 5059 03:53:03,719 --> 03:53:05,680 and say, "Is this price okay? 5060 03:53:05,719 --> 03:53:06,680 Do you want it? 5061 03:53:06,719 --> 03:53:07,680 Can we move forward on it?" 5062 03:53:07,719 --> 03:53:08,680 That's a closed session. 5063 03:53:08,719 --> 03:53:09,680 Then they have to do a public hearing 5064 03:53:09,719 --> 03:53:11,680 to the public to say, 5065 03:53:11,719 --> 03:53:12,680 "We're agreeing to purchase this site 5066 03:53:12,719 --> 03:53:13,680 for this price." 5067 03:53:13,719 --> 03:53:15,680 The negotiations already happened. 5068 03:53:15,719 --> 03:53:16,680 So before that sign goes 5069 03:53:16,719 --> 03:53:18,680 in the yard of that property, 5070 03:53:18,719 --> 03:53:20,680 that owner already has that deal? 5071 03:53:20,719 --> 03:53:21,680 They've already negotiated 5072 03:53:21,719 --> 03:53:23,680 and they've already domain it. 5073 03:53:23,719 --> 03:53:24,680 That's helpful. 5074 03:53:24,719 --> 03:53:26,680 Thank you. 5075 03:53:26,719 --> 03:53:27,680 Commissioner Beck. 5076 03:53:27,719 --> 03:53:28,680 Thank you, Chair. 5077 03:53:28,719 --> 03:53:33,680 I'll put it back up to one more. 5078 03:53:33,719 --> 03:53:34,680 Other way? 5079 03:53:34,719 --> 03:53:35,680 Well, anyway, 5080 03:53:35,719 --> 03:53:38,680 the initial public notification 5081 03:53:38,719 --> 03:53:41,680 is met through just mayors. 5082 03:53:41,719 --> 03:53:42,680 Right. 5083 03:53:42,719 --> 03:53:43,680 Exactly like it's done through an SUP. 5084 03:53:43,719 --> 03:53:45,680 Certified mail, 200 feet to property owners, 5085 03:53:45,719 --> 03:53:47,680 500 feet, non-certified 5086 03:53:47,719 --> 03:53:49,680 to fiscal addresses. 5087 03:53:49,719 --> 03:53:52,680 It goes in public publications. 5088 03:53:52,719 --> 03:53:53,680 Well, this isn't required in the newspaper, 5089 03:53:53,719 --> 03:53:54,680 but every public hearing 5090 03:53:54,719 --> 03:53:55,680 for city council requires a newspaper. 5091 03:53:55,719 --> 03:53:56,680 It's still being handled. 5092 03:53:56,719 --> 03:53:57,680 Okay. 5093 03:53:57,719 --> 03:53:59,680 So it's not specifically called out 5094 03:53:59,719 --> 03:54:03,680 in this one. 5095 03:54:03,719 --> 03:54:04,680 So we can attract the idea 5096 03:54:04,719 --> 03:54:05,680 of what we're trying to do, 5097 03:54:05,719 --> 03:54:06,680 bring it all to the forefront. 5098 03:54:06,719 --> 03:54:08,680 Okay. 5099 03:54:08,719 --> 03:54:10,680 Now, I think this right here 5100 03:54:10,719 --> 03:54:11,680 is going to be key 5101 03:54:11,719 --> 03:54:13,680 because we've done this six times, 5102 03:54:13,719 --> 03:54:14,680 so hopefully we've got to get a handle 5103 03:54:14,719 --> 03:54:16,680 on what's been, what's approvable. 5104 03:54:16,719 --> 03:54:18,680 Okay, so here's kind of the meat 5105 03:54:18,719 --> 03:54:19,680 and bones of it. 5106 03:54:19,719 --> 03:54:20,680 Here's the regulations. 5107 03:54:20,719 --> 03:54:21,680 We're going to add these 5108 03:54:21,719 --> 03:54:22,680 to SUP Chapter 24, 5109 03:54:22,719 --> 03:54:23,680 which already exists 5110 03:54:23,719 --> 03:54:25,680 for utility standards. 5111 03:54:25,719 --> 03:54:26,680 We're going to add these sections 5112 03:54:26,719 --> 03:54:27,680 and I'll kind of go through them 5113 03:54:27,719 --> 03:54:29,680 one at a time. 5114 03:54:29,719 --> 03:54:31,680 It's late, so it's the purpose. 5115 03:54:31,719 --> 03:54:32,680 I won't get into all that detail, 5116 03:54:32,719 --> 03:54:33,680 but if you have any questions 5117 03:54:33,719 --> 03:54:34,680 about it, feel free to let me know. 5118 03:54:34,719 --> 03:54:36,680 It's really just to add these standards 5119 03:54:36,719 --> 03:54:37,680 and adopt some of the federal standards 5120 03:54:37,719 --> 03:54:40,680 that were already in the code. 5121 03:54:40,719 --> 03:54:41,680 Definitions. 5122 03:54:41,719 --> 03:54:42,680 We're going to define a substation 5123 03:54:42,719 --> 03:54:43,680 as basically any structure 5124 03:54:43,719 --> 03:54:44,680 as part of a transmission system 5125 03:54:44,719 --> 03:54:47,680 that routes voltage down 5126 03:54:47,719 --> 03:54:48,680 for distribution 5127 03:54:48,719 --> 03:54:51,680 into a local or regional area 5128 03:54:51,719 --> 03:54:52,680 or conversion 5129 03:54:52,719 --> 03:54:53,680 of two transmission lines. 5130 03:54:53,719 --> 03:54:54,680 A switch station is basically 5131 03:54:54,719 --> 03:54:55,680 the same thing. 5132 03:54:55,719 --> 03:54:56,680 It just doesn't have 5133 03:54:56,719 --> 03:54:57,680 any transformers to route the power. 5134 03:54:57,719 --> 03:54:58,680 It's one voltage 5135 03:54:58,719 --> 03:55:00,680 all the way through the station 5136 03:55:00,719 --> 03:55:04,680 in case that wasn't clear. 5137 03:55:04,719 --> 03:55:05,680 We're going to have 5138 03:55:05,719 --> 03:55:06,680 some general regulations. 5139 03:55:06,719 --> 03:55:07,680 This is really where 5140 03:55:07,719 --> 03:55:08,680 the federal standards 5141 03:55:08,719 --> 03:55:09,680 are going to get put in. 5142 03:55:09,719 --> 03:55:10,680 NERC and NESC, 5143 03:55:10,719 --> 03:55:11,680 the National Electric Safety Council, 5144 03:55:11,719 --> 03:55:12,680 they're rules that DME 5145 03:55:12,719 --> 03:55:13,680 is already following. 5146 03:55:13,719 --> 03:55:14,680 We're just inserting them 5147 03:55:14,719 --> 03:55:16,680 in this section. 5148 03:55:16,719 --> 03:55:17,680 Then we're going to add 5149 03:55:17,719 --> 03:55:18,680 the transmission line 5150 03:55:18,719 --> 03:55:19,680 clearance easements 5151 03:55:19,719 --> 03:55:23,680 for 69 kV and 138 kV. 5152 03:55:23,719 --> 03:55:24,680 Part of this, 5153 03:55:24,719 --> 03:55:25,680 I wish Brent had given 5154 03:55:25,719 --> 03:55:26,680 the presentation before 5155 03:55:26,719 --> 03:55:27,680 because he would have explained 5156 03:55:27,719 --> 03:55:28,680 all this, 5157 03:55:28,719 --> 03:55:29,680 but they're moving 5158 03:55:29,719 --> 03:55:30,680 from a 68 kV system 5159 03:55:30,719 --> 03:55:31,680 to a 138 kV system. 5160 03:55:31,719 --> 03:55:32,680 That's the reason we're doing 5161 03:55:32,719 --> 03:55:33,680 all these substations. 5162 03:55:33,719 --> 03:55:34,680 They have higher voltage, 5163 03:55:34,719 --> 03:55:35,680 therefore they require 5164 03:55:35,719 --> 03:55:36,680 higher clearance zones. 5165 03:55:36,719 --> 03:55:37,680 We're codifying those 5166 03:55:37,719 --> 03:55:38,680 clearance zones 5167 03:55:38,719 --> 03:55:40,680 that we're already enforcing today. 5168 03:55:40,719 --> 03:55:41,680 What we're also doing 5169 03:55:41,719 --> 03:55:43,680 is instead of preliminary 5170 03:55:43,719 --> 03:55:45,680 final plan through subchapter B 5171 03:55:45,719 --> 03:55:46,680 of the government code, 5172 03:55:46,719 --> 03:55:47,680 we can do development plots 5173 03:55:47,719 --> 03:55:48,680 at a staff level. 5174 03:55:48,719 --> 03:55:49,680 We're going to make those plots 5175 03:55:49,719 --> 03:55:50,680 for those substations, 5176 03:55:50,719 --> 03:55:54,680 just a development plot. 5177 03:55:54,719 --> 03:55:55,680 Going really fast. 5178 03:55:55,719 --> 03:55:56,680 Are we still good? 5179 03:55:56,719 --> 03:55:57,680 Okay. 5180 03:55:57,719 --> 03:55:58,680 All right. 5181 03:55:58,719 --> 03:55:59,680 Moving into screening, 5182 03:55:59,719 --> 03:56:00,680 like with every condition 5183 03:56:00,719 --> 03:56:01,680 of every SCP, 5184 03:56:01,719 --> 03:56:02,680 we're going to require 5185 03:56:02,719 --> 03:56:03,680 a minimum 10-foot 5186 03:56:03,719 --> 03:56:04,680 masonry screening wall 5187 03:56:04,719 --> 03:56:05,680 around the perimeter of the site. 5188 03:56:05,719 --> 03:56:06,680 Outside of that screening wall, 5189 03:56:06,719 --> 03:56:07,680 you have to have 5190 03:56:07,719 --> 03:56:08,680 a 10-foot landscape area 5191 03:56:08,719 --> 03:56:09,680 that includes ornamental trees 5192 03:56:09,719 --> 03:56:13,680 and shrubs every 30 feet. 5193 03:56:13,719 --> 03:56:14,680 We're going to require a gate 5194 03:56:14,719 --> 03:56:15,680 that opaquely screens 5195 03:56:15,719 --> 03:56:16,680 the interior of the site, 5196 03:56:16,719 --> 03:56:17,680 and we're specifically 5197 03:56:17,719 --> 03:56:18,680 prohibiting chain link 5198 03:56:18,719 --> 03:56:20,680 as that fence material. 5199 03:56:20,719 --> 03:56:21,680 You may have noticed 5200 03:56:21,719 --> 03:56:22,680 that DME has chain link 5201 03:56:22,719 --> 03:56:23,680 on their fences now. 5202 03:56:23,719 --> 03:56:24,680 They're currently in the process 5203 03:56:24,719 --> 03:56:27,680 of upgrading all those fences. 5204 03:56:27,719 --> 03:56:28,680 We're going to require 5205 03:56:28,719 --> 03:56:29,680 that they comply 5206 03:56:29,719 --> 03:56:30,680 with all the federal standards, 5207 03:56:30,719 --> 03:56:31,680 however, anywhere where 5208 03:56:31,719 --> 03:56:32,680 the DDC is stricter, 5209 03:56:32,719 --> 03:56:33,680 the DDC applies, 5210 03:56:33,719 --> 03:56:34,680 not the federal standard. 5211 03:56:34,719 --> 03:56:35,680 And if there's any 5212 03:56:35,719 --> 03:56:36,680 special circumstances 5213 03:56:36,719 --> 03:56:37,680 that exist, 5214 03:56:37,719 --> 03:56:38,680 the Director of Development 5215 03:56:38,719 --> 03:56:39,680 Services and his or her 5216 03:56:39,719 --> 03:56:40,680 designated May Grant 5217 03:56:40,719 --> 03:56:42,680 alternative screening measures. 5218 03:56:42,719 --> 03:56:43,680 So in this case, 5219 03:56:43,719 --> 03:56:44,680 it's going to be something like 5220 03:56:44,719 --> 03:56:45,680 you haven't seen it yet, 5221 03:56:45,719 --> 03:56:46,680 Hickory Substation. 5222 03:56:46,719 --> 03:56:47,680 It's right next to a 5223 03:56:47,719 --> 03:56:48,680 historic district. 5224 03:56:48,719 --> 03:56:49,680 They met with the neighborhood. 5225 03:56:49,719 --> 03:56:50,680 They agreed to this 5226 03:56:50,719 --> 03:56:51,680 really elaborate wall 5227 03:56:51,719 --> 03:56:52,680 that doesn't necessarily 5228 03:56:52,719 --> 03:56:53,680 comply with what we've done here, 5229 03:56:53,719 --> 03:56:54,680 but it was done through 5230 03:56:54,719 --> 03:56:55,680 a lot of neighborhood input, 5231 03:56:55,719 --> 03:56:56,680 so we're allowing the director 5232 03:56:56,719 --> 03:56:57,680 in that case to approve 5233 03:56:57,719 --> 03:56:58,680 what the neighborhood's 5234 03:56:58,719 --> 03:56:59,680 already done 5235 03:56:59,719 --> 03:57:03,680 at his or her discretion. 5236 03:57:03,719 --> 03:57:04,680 Moving on, 5237 03:57:04,719 --> 03:57:06,680 we've got the buffer requirements. 5238 03:57:06,719 --> 03:57:07,680 Except when you're next 5239 03:57:07,719 --> 03:57:09,680 to an industrial zone, 5240 03:57:09,719 --> 03:57:11,680 a 20-foot buffer is required. 5241 03:57:11,719 --> 03:57:12,680 The common includes 5242 03:57:12,719 --> 03:57:14,680 five trees and 30 shrubs 5243 03:57:14,719 --> 03:57:15,680 per 100 linear feet. 5244 03:57:15,719 --> 03:57:16,680 That's kind of somewhere 5245 03:57:16,719 --> 03:57:17,680 between a type C and a type D 5246 03:57:17,719 --> 03:57:18,680 that you all are familiar with 5247 03:57:18,719 --> 03:57:20,680 that's kind of in between. 5248 03:57:20,719 --> 03:57:21,680 And then again, 5249 03:57:21,719 --> 03:57:23,680 where special circumstances exist, 5250 03:57:23,719 --> 03:57:24,680 the Director of Development 5251 03:57:24,719 --> 03:57:25,680 may grant this 5252 03:57:25,719 --> 03:57:26,680 alternative buffering. 5253 03:57:26,719 --> 03:57:27,680 An example of this 5254 03:57:27,719 --> 03:57:28,680 where the director might 5255 03:57:28,719 --> 03:57:29,680 approve of it is when 5256 03:57:29,719 --> 03:57:30,680 you're next to a flood plan, 5257 03:57:30,719 --> 03:57:31,680 you've got a giant tree 5258 03:57:31,719 --> 03:57:32,680 landscaped area already. 5259 03:57:32,719 --> 03:57:33,680 There's no need to add 5260 03:57:33,719 --> 03:57:34,680 an additional 20-foot 5261 03:57:34,719 --> 03:57:39,680 to buffer the flood plan. 5262 03:57:39,719 --> 03:57:40,680 Trees, again, 5263 03:57:40,719 --> 03:57:41,680 these are already 5264 03:57:41,719 --> 03:57:42,680 in the DDC. 5265 03:57:42,719 --> 03:57:44,680 The street trees are required 5266 03:57:44,719 --> 03:57:45,680 in accordance with 5267 03:57:45,719 --> 03:57:46,680 Subject 13, 5268 03:57:46,719 --> 03:57:47,680 which is where our SAC design 5269 03:57:47,719 --> 03:57:48,680 criteria for standard 5270 03:57:48,719 --> 03:57:49,680 development is. 5271 03:57:49,719 --> 03:57:51,680 But street lights 5272 03:57:51,719 --> 03:57:52,680 may be used in lieu of 5273 03:57:52,719 --> 03:57:53,680 street trees provided 5274 03:57:53,719 --> 03:57:54,680 at the same number 5275 03:57:54,719 --> 03:57:55,680 and spacing. 5276 03:57:55,719 --> 03:57:56,680 And these are not your big 5277 03:57:56,719 --> 03:57:57,680 street lights. 5278 03:57:57,719 --> 03:57:58,680 These are the ornamental 5279 03:57:58,719 --> 03:58:01,680 pedestrian-sized lights. 5280 03:58:01,719 --> 03:58:02,680 They are exempt from the tree 5281 03:58:02,719 --> 03:58:04,680 code as they currently are. 5282 03:58:04,719 --> 03:58:05,680 And we're looking into this. 5283 03:58:05,719 --> 03:58:06,680 The tree code update 5284 03:58:06,719 --> 03:58:07,680 is coming forward. 5285 03:58:07,719 --> 03:58:08,680 So we're kind of looking 5286 03:58:08,719 --> 03:58:09,680 at these to make sure 5287 03:58:09,719 --> 03:58:11,680 they blend and match 5288 03:58:11,719 --> 03:58:12,680 and are consistent. 5289 03:58:12,719 --> 03:58:13,680 So that may be tweaked 5290 03:58:13,719 --> 03:58:15,680 just a little bit. 5291 03:58:15,719 --> 03:58:16,680 And then lastly, 5292 03:58:16,719 --> 03:58:17,680 as required now, 5293 03:58:17,719 --> 03:58:18,680 you have to comply 5294 03:58:18,719 --> 03:58:19,680 with the tree canopy coverage 5295 03:58:19,719 --> 03:58:25,680 per the zoning district. 5296 03:58:25,719 --> 03:58:27,680 Access and transportation. 5297 03:58:27,719 --> 03:58:28,680 The first rule is driveways 5298 03:58:28,719 --> 03:58:30,680 can't be located across 5299 03:58:30,719 --> 03:58:31,680 from the front yards 5300 03:58:31,719 --> 03:58:32,680 of residential uses 5301 03:58:32,719 --> 03:58:33,680 or districts, 5302 03:58:33,719 --> 03:58:34,680 unless approved 5303 03:58:34,719 --> 03:58:35,680 by the director. 5304 03:58:35,719 --> 03:58:36,680 Primary access is limited 5305 03:58:36,719 --> 03:58:37,680 to the lowest 5306 03:58:37,719 --> 03:58:38,680 classification street. 5307 03:58:38,719 --> 03:58:39,680 So if you have an arterial 5308 03:58:39,719 --> 03:58:40,680 in a collector, 5309 03:58:40,719 --> 03:58:41,680 you take it off the collector 5310 03:58:41,719 --> 03:58:43,680 and take it off the arterial. 5311 03:58:43,719 --> 03:58:44,680 No more than two driveways 5312 03:58:44,719 --> 03:58:46,680 per each perimeter street. 5313 03:58:46,719 --> 03:58:47,680 Your separation is per 5314 03:58:47,719 --> 03:58:48,680 the transportation 5315 03:58:48,719 --> 03:58:49,680 criteria manual. 5316 03:58:49,719 --> 03:58:50,680 Driveways must be concrete 5317 03:58:50,719 --> 03:58:51,680 from the back of the curb 5318 03:58:51,719 --> 03:58:52,680 to the entrance of the site. 5319 03:58:52,719 --> 03:58:53,680 No gravel driveways 5320 03:58:53,719 --> 03:58:55,680 where the public can see it. 5321 03:58:55,719 --> 03:58:57,680 And sidewalks are required 5322 03:58:57,719 --> 03:58:58,680 with the development. 5323 03:58:58,719 --> 03:58:59,680 Again, all this is already 5324 03:58:59,719 --> 03:59:00,680 in place, 5325 03:59:00,719 --> 03:59:01,680 just codifying it 5326 03:59:01,719 --> 03:59:03,680 in this chapter. 5327 03:59:03,719 --> 03:59:05,680 This is kind of a new one. 5328 03:59:05,719 --> 03:59:06,680 This is kind of one 5329 03:59:06,719 --> 03:59:07,680 of the federal standards 5330 03:59:07,719 --> 03:59:09,680 from the NESC 5331 03:59:09,719 --> 03:59:10,680 that you have to have 5332 03:59:10,719 --> 03:59:11,680 a 20-foot clearance zone 5333 03:59:11,719 --> 03:59:13,680 to go climbing aids 5334 03:59:13,719 --> 03:59:14,680 for the security 5335 03:59:14,719 --> 03:59:16,680 and safety of the site. 5336 03:59:16,719 --> 03:59:18,680 We're going to mandate this 5337 03:59:18,719 --> 03:59:19,680 for our code. 5338 03:59:19,719 --> 03:59:20,680 You have to have a 20-foot site 5339 03:59:20,719 --> 03:59:21,680 and you can't have landscape 5340 03:59:21,719 --> 03:59:22,680 in it so long as 5341 03:59:22,719 --> 03:59:23,680 it's properly maintained 5342 03:59:23,719 --> 03:59:24,680 doesn't grow to a height 5343 03:59:24,719 --> 03:59:25,680 that you could climb 5344 03:59:25,719 --> 03:59:27,680 or scale the wall. 5345 03:59:27,719 --> 03:59:29,680 Commissioner Hatchbuth. 5346 03:59:29,719 --> 03:59:30,680 Thank you. 5347 03:59:30,719 --> 03:59:32,680 Sidewalks. 5348 03:59:32,719 --> 03:59:33,680 So generally they're going 5349 03:59:33,719 --> 03:59:36,680 to be further out. 5350 03:59:36,719 --> 03:59:38,680 I'm assuming the areas 5351 03:59:38,719 --> 03:59:39,680 you're going to try to select 5352 03:59:39,719 --> 03:59:41,680 are, but should there 5353 03:59:41,719 --> 03:59:42,680 be some parameters there? 5354 03:59:42,719 --> 03:59:44,680 It shouldn't just be a sidewalk 5355 03:59:44,719 --> 03:59:46,680 in the middle of nowhere, 5356 03:59:46,719 --> 03:59:47,680 right? 5357 03:59:47,719 --> 03:59:48,680 For example, let's use 5358 03:59:48,719 --> 03:59:50,680 the one on McKinney. 5359 03:59:50,719 --> 03:59:51,680 The substation just finished. 5360 03:59:51,719 --> 03:59:52,680 There's no sidewalk there. 5361 03:59:52,719 --> 03:59:55,680 What would you envision 5362 03:59:55,719 --> 03:59:56,680 that saying? 5363 03:59:56,719 --> 03:59:57,680 What does that mean, 5364 03:59:57,719 --> 03:59:58,680 sidewalk? 5365 03:59:58,719 --> 03:59:59,680 Where would you put a sidewalk? 5366 03:59:59,719 --> 04:00:00,680 How far does it have to go? 5367 04:00:00,719 --> 04:00:01,680 Does it have to connect? 5368 04:00:01,719 --> 04:00:03,680 All that is kind of already 5369 04:00:03,719 --> 04:00:04,680 outlined in our 5370 04:00:04,719 --> 04:00:05,680 Transportation Criteria Manual. 5371 04:00:05,719 --> 04:00:06,680 So even if there are nothing 5372 04:00:06,719 --> 04:00:07,680 to connect to, 5373 04:00:07,719 --> 04:00:08,680 at some point those sites 5374 04:00:08,719 --> 04:00:09,680 are going to develop. 5375 04:00:09,719 --> 04:00:10,680 So McKinney is a great site. 5376 04:00:10,719 --> 04:00:11,680 We've got the substation 5377 04:00:11,719 --> 04:00:12,680 going in first, 5378 04:00:12,719 --> 04:00:13,680 and now we've got two 5379 04:00:13,719 --> 04:00:14,680 apartments going in 5380 04:00:14,719 --> 04:00:15,680 the other side. 5381 04:00:15,719 --> 04:00:16,680 And now we are having 5382 04:00:16,719 --> 04:00:17,680 a long connection. 5383 04:00:17,719 --> 04:00:18,680 So the plan is as all 5384 04:00:18,719 --> 04:00:19,680 these sites develop 5385 04:00:19,719 --> 04:00:20,680 we will get that connection. 5386 04:00:20,719 --> 04:00:21,680 And the size, 5387 04:00:21,719 --> 04:00:22,680 the placement location 5388 04:00:22,719 --> 04:00:23,680 is all outlined 5389 04:00:23,719 --> 04:00:24,680 in our street sections 5390 04:00:24,719 --> 04:00:26,680 per street classification. 5391 04:00:26,719 --> 04:00:31,680 So stand with McKinney. 5392 04:00:31,719 --> 04:00:32,680 There just be a sidewalk 5393 04:00:32,719 --> 04:00:33,680 that connects to nothing 5394 04:00:33,719 --> 04:00:35,680 until everything else builds? 5395 04:00:35,719 --> 04:00:36,680 That's correct. 5396 04:00:36,719 --> 04:00:37,680 That's what we do. 5397 04:00:37,719 --> 04:00:38,680 Have you seen the sidewalks 5398 04:00:38,719 --> 04:00:40,680 from nowhere? 5399 04:00:40,719 --> 04:00:41,680 And then no sidewalk, 5400 04:00:41,719 --> 04:00:42,680 and then everything builds in 5401 04:00:42,719 --> 04:00:43,680 and there's a gap 5402 04:00:43,719 --> 04:00:44,680 because they didn't 5403 04:00:44,719 --> 04:00:45,680 build the sidewalk 5404 04:00:45,719 --> 04:00:46,680 ten years ago. 5405 04:00:46,719 --> 04:00:48,680 Are you sure? 5406 04:00:48,719 --> 04:00:50,680 Because cement shifts, right? 5407 04:00:50,719 --> 04:00:51,680 I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, 5408 04:00:51,719 --> 04:00:52,680 but it shifts. 5409 04:00:52,719 --> 04:00:54,680 It doesn't play well 5410 04:00:54,719 --> 04:00:55,680 with each other. 5411 04:00:55,719 --> 04:00:57,680 It needs to be, 5412 04:00:57,719 --> 04:00:58,680 you know what I mean? 5413 04:00:58,719 --> 04:01:01,680 It doesn't work. 5414 04:01:01,719 --> 04:01:02,680 I mean, I've learned trial and error. 5415 04:01:02,719 --> 04:01:03,680 I'm not a builder. 5416 04:01:03,719 --> 04:01:04,680 I've just seen it. 5417 04:01:04,719 --> 04:01:05,680 They put what's called 5418 04:01:05,719 --> 04:01:06,680 expansion joints in there. 5419 04:01:06,719 --> 04:01:07,680 But it just, 5420 04:01:07,719 --> 04:01:08,680 am I wrong? 5421 04:01:08,719 --> 04:01:09,680 I mean, 5422 04:01:09,719 --> 04:01:10,680 I want to make sure 5423 04:01:10,719 --> 04:01:11,680 that it doesn't play well 5424 04:01:11,719 --> 04:01:12,680 with each other. 5425 04:01:12,719 --> 04:01:13,680 Sure, it sounds like you're sitting 5426 04:01:13,719 --> 04:01:14,680 in one of our Thursday meetings 5427 04:01:14,719 --> 04:01:15,680 with applicants. 5428 04:01:15,719 --> 04:01:16,680 We hear that all the time. 5429 04:01:16,719 --> 04:01:17,680 It's true, 5430 04:01:17,719 --> 04:01:18,680 but you do have to start somewhere. 5431 04:01:18,719 --> 04:01:19,680 I jacked up my house 5432 04:01:19,719 --> 04:01:20,680 by putting a porch 5433 04:01:20,719 --> 04:01:21,680 and they don't play well 5434 04:01:21,719 --> 04:01:22,680 with each other. 5435 04:01:22,719 --> 04:01:23,680 I mean, and I'm like, 5436 04:01:23,719 --> 04:01:24,680 what's happening? 5437 04:01:24,719 --> 04:01:25,680 It's cement. 5438 04:01:25,719 --> 04:01:26,680 It's a fair point. 5439 04:01:26,719 --> 04:01:27,680 We deal with that all the time. 5440 04:01:27,719 --> 04:01:28,680 We do have to start somewhere. 5441 04:01:28,719 --> 04:01:29,680 We typically are pretty standard 5442 04:01:29,719 --> 04:01:30,680 about making them put it in. 5443 04:01:30,719 --> 04:01:32,680 But there are cases where, 5444 04:01:32,719 --> 04:01:33,680 like say you're building 5445 04:01:33,719 --> 04:01:34,680 a single-family house 5446 04:01:34,719 --> 04:01:35,680 in an established neighborhood 5447 04:01:35,719 --> 04:01:36,680 that has no sidewalks. 5448 04:01:36,719 --> 04:01:38,680 The engineering department 5449 04:01:38,719 --> 04:01:39,680 will take a payment 5450 04:01:39,719 --> 04:01:40,680 and move the building 5451 04:01:40,719 --> 04:01:41,680 in that sidewalk. 5452 04:01:41,719 --> 04:01:42,680 So that at some point in the future 5453 04:01:42,719 --> 04:01:43,680 we may come in 5454 04:01:43,719 --> 04:01:44,680 and put it in ourself. 5455 04:01:44,719 --> 04:01:45,680 Well, and so that would be 5456 04:01:45,719 --> 04:01:46,680 my question. 5457 04:01:46,719 --> 04:01:47,680 Is there not a better work around 5458 04:01:47,719 --> 04:01:48,680 to say, hey, look, 5459 04:01:48,719 --> 04:01:49,680 we're going to allocate 5460 04:01:49,719 --> 04:01:50,680 this budget hard and fast 5461 04:01:50,719 --> 04:01:52,680 for this sidewalk 5462 04:01:52,719 --> 04:01:53,680 once everything, 5463 04:01:53,719 --> 04:01:55,680 once there's three quarters 5464 04:01:55,719 --> 04:01:56,680 or whatever, 5465 04:01:56,719 --> 04:01:57,680 such that it can connect 5466 04:01:57,719 --> 04:01:58,680 to something, 5467 04:01:58,719 --> 04:01:59,680 but a sidewalk 5468 04:01:59,719 --> 04:02:00,680 in the middle of nowhere 5469 04:02:00,719 --> 04:02:01,680 that you're then going 5470 04:02:01,719 --> 04:02:02,680 to connect other sidewalks 5471 04:02:02,719 --> 04:02:03,680 to and they're going to fight 5472 04:02:03,719 --> 04:02:04,680 doesn't, 5473 04:02:04,719 --> 04:02:05,680 it doesn't seem like 5474 04:02:05,719 --> 04:02:06,680 a good use of resource. 5475 04:02:06,719 --> 04:02:07,680 For example, 5476 04:02:07,719 --> 04:02:08,680 I mean, there's no one 5477 04:02:08,719 --> 04:02:09,680 walking right there 5478 04:02:09,719 --> 04:02:10,680 on McKinney right now. 5479 04:02:10,719 --> 04:02:11,680 So you'd have this one patch 5480 04:02:11,719 --> 04:02:13,680 where there's nothing going on. 5481 04:02:13,719 --> 04:02:14,680 That is, 5482 04:02:14,719 --> 04:02:15,680 that's like 5483 04:02:15,719 --> 04:02:17,680 throwing money out the window to me. 5484 04:02:17,719 --> 04:02:18,680 I'm just, 5485 04:02:18,719 --> 04:02:20,680 I don't know. 5486 04:02:20,719 --> 04:02:21,680 I don't know. 5487 04:02:21,719 --> 04:02:22,680 There's got to be a better way. 5488 04:02:22,719 --> 04:02:23,680 Mr. Gerrard. 5489 04:02:23,719 --> 04:02:24,680 Commissioner Dudowitz. 5490 04:02:24,719 --> 04:02:25,680 I built the property 5491 04:02:25,719 --> 04:02:27,680 in 2005 5492 04:02:27,719 --> 04:02:30,680 on University Drive East. 5493 04:02:30,719 --> 04:02:32,680 I had to put a sidewalk in. 5494 04:02:32,719 --> 04:02:34,680 Properties on both sides 5495 04:02:34,719 --> 04:02:36,680 don't have any. 5496 04:02:36,719 --> 04:02:37,680 Not only that, 5497 04:02:37,719 --> 04:02:39,680 but I had to put in a 5498 04:02:39,719 --> 04:02:41,680 frontage entrance exit. 5499 04:02:41,719 --> 04:02:43,680 So in case we wanted, 5500 04:02:43,719 --> 04:02:44,680 they wanted to route traffic. 5501 04:02:44,719 --> 04:02:45,680 So in my property, 5502 04:02:45,719 --> 04:02:48,680 I have a street in front of me 5503 04:02:48,719 --> 04:02:50,680 with parking, 5504 04:02:50,719 --> 04:02:53,680 one of those blocks or whatever. 5505 04:02:53,719 --> 04:02:54,680 And it looks like 5506 04:02:54,719 --> 04:02:55,680 a road that would go, 5507 04:02:55,719 --> 04:02:56,680 but it doesn't. 5508 04:02:56,719 --> 04:02:57,680 And I have a sidewalk 5509 04:02:57,719 --> 04:02:58,680 in front of me. 5510 04:02:58,719 --> 04:02:59,680 Nobody on the other side of me has. 5511 04:02:59,719 --> 04:03:01,680 And I had to put those in. 5512 04:03:01,719 --> 04:03:02,680 Yeah, no, I mean, 5513 04:03:02,719 --> 04:03:03,680 I would just, 5514 04:03:03,719 --> 04:03:04,680 I mean, again, 5515 04:03:04,719 --> 04:03:05,680 if I have any say so in it, 5516 04:03:05,719 --> 04:03:06,680 I would urge 5517 04:03:06,719 --> 04:03:07,680 that I would put a sidewalk 5518 04:03:07,719 --> 04:03:08,680 in front of me. 5519 04:03:08,719 --> 04:03:09,680 I mean, I would just 5520 04:03:09,719 --> 04:03:10,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5521 04:03:10,719 --> 04:03:11,680 I mean, I would just 5522 04:03:11,719 --> 04:03:12,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5523 04:03:12,719 --> 04:03:13,680 I mean, I would just 5524 04:03:13,719 --> 04:03:14,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5525 04:03:14,719 --> 04:03:15,680 I mean, I would just 5526 04:03:15,719 --> 04:03:16,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5527 04:03:16,719 --> 04:03:17,680 I mean, I would just 5528 04:03:17,719 --> 04:03:18,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5529 04:03:18,719 --> 04:03:19,680 I mean, I would just 5530 04:03:19,719 --> 04:03:20,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5531 04:03:20,719 --> 04:03:21,680 I mean, I would just 5532 04:03:21,719 --> 04:03:22,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5533 04:03:22,719 --> 04:03:23,680 I mean, I would just 5534 04:03:23,719 --> 04:03:24,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5535 04:03:24,719 --> 04:03:25,680 I mean, I would just 5536 04:03:25,719 --> 04:03:26,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5537 04:03:26,719 --> 04:03:27,680 I mean, I would just 5538 04:03:27,719 --> 04:03:28,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5539 04:03:28,719 --> 04:03:29,680 I mean, I would just 5540 04:03:29,719 --> 04:03:30,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5541 04:03:30,719 --> 04:03:36,680 I mean, I would just 5542 04:03:36,719 --> 04:03:37,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5543 04:03:37,719 --> 04:03:38,680 I mean, I would just 5544 04:03:38,719 --> 04:03:39,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5545 04:03:39,719 --> 04:03:40,680 I mean, I would just 5546 04:03:40,719 --> 04:03:41,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5547 04:03:41,719 --> 04:03:42,680 I mean, I would just 5548 04:03:42,719 --> 04:03:43,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5549 04:03:43,719 --> 04:03:44,680 I mean, I would just 5550 04:03:44,719 --> 04:03:45,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5551 04:03:45,719 --> 04:03:46,680 I mean, I would just 5552 04:03:46,719 --> 04:03:47,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5553 04:03:47,719 --> 04:03:48,680 I mean, I would just 5554 04:03:48,719 --> 04:03:49,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5555 04:03:49,719 --> 04:03:50,680 I mean, I would just 5556 04:03:50,719 --> 04:03:51,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5557 04:03:51,719 --> 04:03:52,680 I mean, I would just 5558 04:03:52,719 --> 04:03:53,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5559 04:03:53,719 --> 04:03:54,680 I mean, I would just 5560 04:03:54,719 --> 04:03:55,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5561 04:03:55,719 --> 04:03:56,680 I mean, I would just 5562 04:03:56,719 --> 04:03:57,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5563 04:03:57,719 --> 04:03:58,680 I mean, I would just 5564 04:03:58,719 --> 04:03:59,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5565 04:03:59,719 --> 04:04:00,680 I mean, I would just 5566 04:04:00,719 --> 04:04:01,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5567 04:04:01,719 --> 04:04:02,680 I mean, I would just 5568 04:04:02,719 --> 04:04:03,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5569 04:04:03,719 --> 04:04:04,680 I mean, I would just 5570 04:04:04,719 --> 04:04:05,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5571 04:04:05,719 --> 04:04:06,680 I mean, I would just 5572 04:04:06,719 --> 04:04:07,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5573 04:04:07,719 --> 04:04:08,680 I mean, I would just 5574 04:04:08,719 --> 04:04:09,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5575 04:04:09,719 --> 04:04:10,680 I mean, I would just 5576 04:04:10,719 --> 04:04:11,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5577 04:04:11,719 --> 04:04:12,680 I mean, I would just 5578 04:04:12,719 --> 04:04:13,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5579 04:04:13,719 --> 04:04:14,680 I mean, I would just 5580 04:04:14,719 --> 04:04:15,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5581 04:04:15,719 --> 04:04:16,680 I mean, I would just 5582 04:04:16,719 --> 04:04:17,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5583 04:04:17,719 --> 04:04:18,680 I mean, I would just 5584 04:04:18,719 --> 04:04:19,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5585 04:04:19,719 --> 04:04:20,680 I mean, I would just 5586 04:04:20,719 --> 04:04:21,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5587 04:04:21,719 --> 04:04:22,680 I mean, I would just 5588 04:04:22,719 --> 04:04:23,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5589 04:04:23,719 --> 04:04:29,680 I mean, I would just 5590 04:04:29,719 --> 04:04:30,680 I mean, I would just 5591 04:04:30,719 --> 04:04:31,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5592 04:04:31,719 --> 04:04:32,680 I mean, I would just 5593 04:04:32,719 --> 04:04:33,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5594 04:04:33,719 --> 04:04:34,680 I mean, I would just 5595 04:04:34,719 --> 04:04:35,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5596 04:04:35,719 --> 04:04:36,680 I mean, I would just 5597 04:04:36,719 --> 04:04:37,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5598 04:04:37,719 --> 04:04:38,680 I mean, I would just 5599 04:04:38,719 --> 04:04:39,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5600 04:04:39,719 --> 04:04:40,680 I mean, I would just 5601 04:04:40,719 --> 04:04:41,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5602 04:04:41,719 --> 04:04:42,680 I mean, I would just 5603 04:04:42,719 --> 04:04:43,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5604 04:04:43,719 --> 04:04:44,680 I mean, I would just 5605 04:04:44,719 --> 04:04:45,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5606 04:04:45,719 --> 04:04:46,680 I mean, I would just 5607 04:04:46,719 --> 04:04:47,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5608 04:04:47,719 --> 04:04:48,680 I mean, I would just 5609 04:04:48,719 --> 04:04:49,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5610 04:04:49,719 --> 04:04:50,680 I mean, I would just 5611 04:04:50,719 --> 04:04:51,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5612 04:04:51,719 --> 04:04:52,680 I mean, I would just 5613 04:04:52,719 --> 04:04:53,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5614 04:04:53,719 --> 04:04:54,680 I mean, I would just 5615 04:04:54,719 --> 04:04:55,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5616 04:04:55,719 --> 04:04:56,680 I mean, I would just 5617 04:04:56,719 --> 04:04:57,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5618 04:04:57,719 --> 04:04:58,680 I mean, I would just 5619 04:04:58,719 --> 04:04:59,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5620 04:04:59,719 --> 04:05:00,680 I mean, I would just 5621 04:05:00,719 --> 04:05:01,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5622 04:05:01,719 --> 04:05:02,680 I mean, I would just 5623 04:05:02,719 --> 04:05:03,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5624 04:05:03,719 --> 04:05:04,680 I mean, I would just 5625 04:05:04,719 --> 04:05:05,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5626 04:05:05,719 --> 04:05:06,680 I mean, I would just 5627 04:05:06,719 --> 04:05:07,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5628 04:05:07,719 --> 04:05:08,680 I mean, I would just 5629 04:05:08,719 --> 04:05:09,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5630 04:05:09,719 --> 04:05:10,680 I mean, I would just 5631 04:05:10,719 --> 04:05:11,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5632 04:05:11,719 --> 04:05:12,680 I mean, I would just 5633 04:05:12,719 --> 04:05:13,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5634 04:05:13,719 --> 04:05:14,680 I mean, I would just 5635 04:05:14,719 --> 04:05:15,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5636 04:05:15,719 --> 04:05:16,680 I mean, I would just 5637 04:05:16,719 --> 04:05:22,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5638 04:05:22,719 --> 04:05:23,680 I mean, I would just 5639 04:05:23,719 --> 04:05:24,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5640 04:05:24,719 --> 04:05:25,680 I mean, I would just 5641 04:05:25,719 --> 04:05:26,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5642 04:05:26,719 --> 04:05:27,680 I mean, I would just 5643 04:05:27,719 --> 04:05:28,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5644 04:05:28,719 --> 04:05:29,680 I mean, I would just 5645 04:05:29,719 --> 04:05:30,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5646 04:05:30,719 --> 04:05:31,680 I mean, I would just 5647 04:05:31,719 --> 04:05:32,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5648 04:05:32,719 --> 04:05:33,680 I mean, I would just 5649 04:05:33,719 --> 04:05:34,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5650 04:05:34,719 --> 04:05:35,680 I mean, I would just 5651 04:05:35,719 --> 04:05:36,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5652 04:05:36,719 --> 04:05:37,680 I mean, I would just 5653 04:05:37,719 --> 04:05:38,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5654 04:05:38,719 --> 04:05:39,680 I mean, I would just 5655 04:05:39,719 --> 04:05:40,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5656 04:05:40,719 --> 04:05:41,680 I mean, I would just 5657 04:05:41,719 --> 04:05:42,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5658 04:05:42,719 --> 04:05:43,680 I mean, I would just 5659 04:05:43,719 --> 04:05:44,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5660 04:05:44,719 --> 04:05:45,680 I mean, I would just 5661 04:05:45,719 --> 04:05:46,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5662 04:05:46,719 --> 04:05:47,680 I mean, I would just 5663 04:05:47,719 --> 04:05:48,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5664 04:05:48,719 --> 04:05:49,680 I mean, I would just 5665 04:05:49,719 --> 04:05:50,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5666 04:05:50,719 --> 04:05:51,680 I mean, I would just 5667 04:05:51,719 --> 04:05:52,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5668 04:05:52,719 --> 04:05:53,680 I mean, I would just 5669 04:05:53,719 --> 04:05:54,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5670 04:05:54,719 --> 04:05:55,680 I mean, I would just 5671 04:05:55,719 --> 04:05:56,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5672 04:05:56,719 --> 04:05:57,680 I mean, I would just 5673 04:05:57,719 --> 04:05:58,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5674 04:05:58,719 --> 04:05:59,680 I mean, I would just 5675 04:05:59,719 --> 04:06:00,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5676 04:06:00,719 --> 04:06:01,680 I mean, I would just 5677 04:06:01,719 --> 04:06:02,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5678 04:06:02,719 --> 04:06:03,680 I mean, I would just 5679 04:06:03,719 --> 04:06:04,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5680 04:06:04,719 --> 04:06:05,680 I mean, I would just 5681 04:06:05,719 --> 04:06:06,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5682 04:06:06,719 --> 04:06:07,680 I mean, I would just 5683 04:06:07,719 --> 04:06:08,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5684 04:06:08,719 --> 04:06:09,680 I mean, I would just 5685 04:06:09,719 --> 04:06:15,680 put a sidewalk in front of me. 5686 04:06:15,719 --> 04:06:16,680 >> Okay. 5687 04:06:16,719 --> 04:06:17,680 >> Okay. 5688 04:06:17,719 --> 04:06:18,680 >> Okay. 5689 04:06:18,719 --> 04:06:19,680 >> Okay. 5690 04:06:19,719 --> 04:06:20,680 >> Okay. 5691 04:06:20,719 --> 04:06:21,680 >> Okay. 5692 04:06:21,719 --> 04:06:22,680 >> Okay. 5693 04:06:22,719 --> 04:06:23,680 >> Okay. 5694 04:06:23,719 --> 04:06:24,680 >> Okay. 5695 04:06:24,719 --> 04:06:25,680 >> Okay. 5696 04:06:25,719 --> 04:06:26,680 >> Okay. 5697 04:06:26,719 --> 04:06:27,680 >> Okay. 5698 04:06:27,719 --> 04:06:28,680 >> Okay. 5699 04:06:28,719 --> 04:06:29,680 >> Okay. 5700 04:06:29,719 --> 04:06:30,680 >> Okay. 5701 04:06:30,719 --> 04:06:31,680 >> Okay. 5702 04:06:31,719 --> 04:06:32,680 >> Okay. 5703 04:06:32,719 --> 04:06:33,680 >> Okay. 5704 04:06:33,719 --> 04:06:34,680 >> Okay. 5705 04:06:34,719 --> 04:06:35,680 >> Okay. 5706 04:06:35,719 --> 04:06:36,680 >> Okay. 5707 04:06:36,719 --> 04:06:37,680 >> Okay. 5708 04:06:37,719 --> 04:06:38,680 >> Okay. 5709 04:06:38,719 --> 04:06:39,680 >> Okay. 5710 04:06:39,719 --> 04:06:40,680 >> Okay. 5711 04:06:40,719 --> 04:06:41,680 >> Okay. 5712 04:06:41,719 --> 04:06:42,680 >> Okay. 5713 04:06:42,719 --> 04:06:43,680 >> Okay. 5714 04:06:43,719 --> 04:06:44,680 >> Okay. 5715 04:06:44,719 --> 04:06:45,680 >> Okay. 5716 04:06:45,719 --> 04:06:46,680 >> Okay. 5717 04:06:46,719 --> 04:06:47,680 >> Okay. 5718 04:06:47,719 --> 04:06:48,680 >> Okay. 5719 04:06:48,719 --> 04:06:49,680 >> Okay. 5720 04:06:49,719 --> 04:06:50,680 >> Okay. 5721 04:06:50,719 --> 04:06:51,680 >> Okay. 5722 04:06:51,719 --> 04:06:52,680 >> Okay. 5723 04:06:52,719 --> 04:06:53,680 >> Okay. 5724 04:06:53,719 --> 04:06:54,680 >> Okay. 5725 04:06:54,719 --> 04:06:55,680 >> Okay. 5726 04:06:55,719 --> 04:06:56,680 >> Okay. 5727 04:06:56,719 --> 04:06:57,680 >> Okay. 5728 04:06:57,719 --> 04:06:58,680 >> Okay. 5729 04:06:58,719 --> 04:06:59,680 >> Okay. 5730 04:06:59,719 --> 04:07:00,680 >> Okay. 5731 04:07:00,719 --> 04:07:01,680 >> Okay. 5732 04:07:01,719 --> 04:07:02,680 >> Okay. 5733 04:07:02,719 --> 04:07:03,680 >> Okay. 5734 04:07:03,719 --> 04:07:04,680 >> Okay. 5735 04:07:04,719 --> 04:07:05,680 >> Okay. 5736 04:07:05,719 --> 04:07:06,680 >> Okay. 5737 04:07:06,719 --> 04:07:07,680 >> Okay. 5738 04:07:07,719 --> 04:07:08,680 >> Okay. 5739 04:07:08,719 --> 04:07:09,680 >> Okay. 5740 04:07:09,719 --> 04:07:10,680 >> Okay. 5741 04:07:10,719 --> 04:07:11,680 >> Okay. 5742 04:07:11,719 --> 04:07:12,680 >> Okay. 5743 04:07:12,719 --> 04:07:13,680 >> Okay. 5744 04:07:13,719 --> 04:07:14,680 >> Okay. 5745 04:07:14,719 --> 04:07:15,680 >> Okay. 5746 04:07:15,719 --> 04:07:16,680 >> Okay. 5747 04:07:16,719 --> 04:07:17,680 >> Okay. 5748 04:07:17,719 --> 04:07:18,680 >> Okay. 5749 04:07:18,719 --> 04:07:19,680 >> Okay. 5750 04:07:19,719 --> 04:07:20,680 >> Okay. 5751 04:07:20,719 --> 04:07:21,680 >> Okay. 5752 04:07:21,719 --> 04:07:22,680 >> Okay. 5753 04:07:22,719 --> 04:07:23,680 >> Okay. 5754 04:07:23,719 --> 04:07:24,680 >> Okay. 5755 04:07:24,719 --> 04:07:25,680 >> Okay. 5756 04:07:25,719 --> 04:07:26,680 >> Okay. 5757 04:07:26,719 --> 04:07:27,680 >> Okay. 5758 04:07:27,719 --> 04:07:28,680 >> Okay. 5759 04:07:28,719 --> 04:07:29,680 >> Okay. 5760 04:07:29,719 --> 04:07:30,680 >> Okay. 5761 04:07:30,719 --> 04:07:31,680 >> Okay. 5762 04:07:31,719 --> 04:07:32,680 >> Okay. 5763 04:07:32,719 --> 04:07:33,680 >> Okay. 5764 04:07:33,719 --> 04:07:34,680 >> Okay. 5765 04:07:34,719 --> 04:07:35,680 >> Okay. 5766 04:07:35,719 --> 04:07:36,680 >> Okay. 5767 04:07:36,719 --> 04:07:37,680 >> Okay. 5768 04:07:37,719 --> 04:07:38,680 >> Okay. 5769 04:07:38,719 --> 04:07:39,680 >> Okay. 5770 04:07:39,719 --> 04:07:40,680 >> Okay. 5771 04:07:40,719 --> 04:07:41,680 >> Okay. 5772 04:07:41,719 --> 04:07:42,680 >> Okay. 5773 04:07:42,719 --> 04:07:43,680 >> Okay. 5774 04:07:43,719 --> 04:07:44,680 >> Okay. 5775 04:07:44,719 --> 04:07:45,680 >> Okay. 5776 04:07:45,719 --> 04:07:46,680 >> Okay. 5777 04:07:46,719 --> 04:07:47,680 >> Okay. 5778 04:07:47,719 --> 04:07:48,680 >> Okay. 5779 04:07:48,719 --> 04:07:49,680 >> Okay. 5780 04:07:49,719 --> 04:07:50,680 >> Okay. 5781 04:07:50,719 --> 04:07:51,680 >> Okay. 5782 04:07:51,719 --> 04:07:52,680 >> Okay. 5783 04:07:52,719 --> 04:07:53,680 >> Okay. 5784 04:07:53,719 --> 04:07:54,680 >> Okay. 5785 04:07:54,719 --> 04:07:55,680 >> Okay. 5786 04:07:55,719 --> 04:07:56,680 >> Okay. 5787 04:07:56,719 --> 04:07:57,680 >> Okay. 5788 04:07:57,719 --> 04:07:58,680 >> Okay. 5789 04:07:58,719 --> 04:07:59,680 >> Okay. 5790 04:07:59,719 --> 04:08:00,680 >> Okay. 5791 04:08:00,719 --> 04:08:01,680 >> Okay. 5792 04:08:01,719 --> 04:08:02,680 >> Okay. 5793 04:08:02,719 --> 04:08:03,680 >> Okay. 5794 04:08:03,719 --> 04:08:04,680 >> Okay. 5795 04:08:04,719 --> 04:08:05,680 >> Okay. 5796 04:08:05,719 --> 04:08:06,680 >> Okay. 5797 04:08:06,719 --> 04:08:07,680 >> Okay. 5798 04:08:07,719 --> 04:08:08,680 >> Okay. 5799 04:08:08,719 --> 04:08:09,680 >> Okay. 5800 04:08:09,719 --> 04:08:10,680 >> Okay. 5801 04:08:10,719 --> 04:08:11,680 >> Okay. 5802 04:08:11,719 --> 04:08:12,680 >> Okay. 5803 04:08:12,719 --> 04:08:13,680 >> Okay. 5804 04:08:13,719 --> 04:08:14,680 >> Okay. 5805 04:08:14,719 --> 04:08:15,680 >> Okay. 5806 04:08:15,719 --> 04:08:16,680 >> Okay. 5807 04:08:16,719 --> 04:08:17,680 >> Okay. 5808 04:08:17,719 --> 04:08:18,680 >> Okay. 5809 04:08:18,719 --> 04:08:19,680 >> Okay. 5810 04:08:19,719 --> 04:08:20,680 >> Okay. 5811 04:08:20,719 --> 04:08:21,680 >> Okay. 5812 04:08:21,719 --> 04:08:22,680 >> Okay. 5813 04:08:22,719 --> 04:08:23,680 >> Okay. 5814 04:08:23,719 --> 04:08:24,680 >> Okay. 5815 04:08:24,719 --> 04:08:25,680 >> Okay. 5816 04:08:25,719 --> 04:08:26,680 >> Okay. 5817 04:08:26,719 --> 04:08:27,680 >> Okay. 5818 04:08:27,719 --> 04:08:28,680 >> Okay. 5819 04:08:28,719 --> 04:08:29,680 >> Okay. 5820 04:08:29,719 --> 04:08:30,680 >> Okay. 5821 04:08:30,719 --> 04:08:31,680 >> Okay. 5822 04:08:31,719 --> 04:08:32,680 >> Okay. 5823 04:08:32,719 --> 04:08:33,680 >> Okay. 5824 04:08:33,719 --> 04:08:34,680 >> Okay. 5825 04:08:34,719 --> 04:08:35,680 >> Okay. 5826 04:08:35,719 --> 04:08:36,680 >> Okay. 5827 04:08:36,719 --> 04:08:37,680 >> Okay. 5828 04:08:37,719 --> 04:08:38,680 >> Okay. 5829 04:08:38,719 --> 04:08:39,680 >> Okay. 5830 04:08:39,719 --> 04:08:40,680 >> Okay. 5831 04:08:40,719 --> 04:08:41,680 >> Okay. 5832 04:08:41,719 --> 04:08:42,680 >> Okay. 5833 04:08:42,719 --> 04:08:43,680 >> Okay. 5834 04:08:43,719 --> 04:08:44,680 >> Okay. 5835 04:08:44,719 --> 04:08:45,680 >> Okay. 5836 04:08:45,719 --> 04:08:46,680 >> Okay. 5837 04:08:46,719 --> 04:08:47,680 >> Okay. 5838 04:08:47,719 --> 04:08:48,680 >> Okay. 5839 04:08:48,719 --> 04:08:49,680 >> Okay. 5840 04:08:49,719 --> 04:08:50,680 >> Okay. 5841 04:08:50,719 --> 04:08:51,680 >> Okay. 5842 04:08:51,719 --> 04:08:52,680 >> Okay. 5843 04:08:52,719 --> 04:08:53,680 >> Okay. 5844 04:08:53,719 --> 04:08:54,680 >> Okay. 5845 04:08:54,719 --> 04:08:55,680 >> Okay. 5846 04:08:55,719 --> 04:08:56,680 >> Okay. 5847 04:08:56,719 --> 04:08:57,680 >> Okay. 5848 04:08:57,719 --> 04:08:58,680 >> Okay. 5849 04:08:58,719 --> 04:08:59,680 >> Okay. 5850 04:08:59,719 --> 04:09:00,680 >> Okay. 5851 04:09:00,719 --> 04:09:01,680 >> Okay. 5852 04:09:01,719 --> 04:09:02,680 >> Okay. 5853 04:09:02,719 --> 04:09:03,680 >> Okay. 5854 04:09:03,719 --> 04:09:04,680 >> Okay. 5855 04:09:04,719 --> 04:09:05,680 >> Okay. 5856 04:09:05,719 --> 04:09:06,680 >> Okay. 5857 04:09:06,719 --> 04:09:07,680 >> Okay. 5858 04:09:07,719 --> 04:09:08,680 >> Okay. 5859 04:09:08,719 --> 04:09:09,680 >> Okay. 5860 04:09:09,719 --> 04:09:10,680 >> Okay. 5861 04:09:10,719 --> 04:09:11,680 >> Okay. 5862 04:09:11,719 --> 04:09:12,680 >> Okay. 5863 04:09:12,719 --> 04:09:13,680 >> Okay. 5864 04:09:13,719 --> 04:09:14,680 >> Okay. 5865 04:09:14,719 --> 04:09:15,680 >> Okay. 5866 04:09:15,719 --> 04:09:16,680 >> Okay. 5867 04:09:16,719 --> 04:09:17,680 >> Okay. 5868 04:09:17,719 --> 04:09:18,680 >> Okay. 5869 04:09:18,719 --> 04:09:19,680 >> Okay. 5870 04:09:19,719 --> 04:09:20,680 >> Okay. 5871 04:09:20,719 --> 04:09:21,680 >> Okay. 5872 04:09:21,719 --> 04:09:22,680 >> Okay. 5873 04:09:22,719 --> 04:09:23,680 >> Okay. 5874 04:09:23,719 --> 04:09:24,680 >> Okay. 5875 04:09:24,719 --> 04:09:25,680 >> Okay. 5876 04:09:25,719 --> 04:09:26,680 >> Okay. 5877 04:09:26,719 --> 04:09:27,680 >> Okay. 5878 04:09:27,719 --> 04:09:28,680 >> Okay. 5879 04:09:28,719 --> 04:09:29,680 >> Okay. 5880 04:09:29,719 --> 04:09:30,680 >> Okay. 5881 04:09:30,719 --> 04:09:31,680 >> Okay. 5882 04:09:31,719 --> 04:09:32,680 >> Okay. 5883 04:09:32,719 --> 04:09:33,680 >> Okay. 5884 04:09:33,719 --> 04:09:34,680 >> Okay. 5885 04:09:34,719 --> 04:09:35,680 >> Okay. 5886 04:09:35,719 --> 04:09:36,680 >> Okay. 5887 04:09:36,719 --> 04:09:37,680 >> Okay. 5888 04:09:37,719 --> 04:09:38,680 >> Okay. 5889 04:09:38,719 --> 04:09:39,680 >> Okay. 5890 04:09:39,719 --> 04:09:40,680 >> Okay. 5891 04:09:40,719 --> 04:09:41,680 >> Okay. 5892 04:09:41,719 --> 04:09:42,680 >> Okay. 5893 04:09:42,719 --> 04:09:43,680 >> Okay. 5894 04:09:43,719 --> 04:09:44,680 >> Okay. 5895 04:09:44,719 --> 04:09:45,680 >> Okay. 5896 04:09:45,719 --> 04:09:46,680 >> Okay. 5897 04:09:46,719 --> 04:09:47,680 >> Okay. 5898 04:09:47,719 --> 04:09:48,680 >> Okay. 5899 04:09:48,719 --> 04:09:49,680 >> Okay. 5900 04:09:49,719 --> 04:09:50,680 >> Okay. 5901 04:09:50,719 --> 04:09:51,680 >> Okay. 5902 04:09:51,719 --> 04:09:52,680 >> Okay. 5903 04:09:52,719 --> 04:09:53,680 >> Okay. 5904 04:09:53,719 --> 04:09:54,680 >> Okay. 5905 04:09:54,719 --> 04:09:55,680 >> Okay. 5906 04:09:55,719 --> 04:09:56,680 >> Okay. 5907 04:09:56,719 --> 04:09:57,680 >> Okay. 5908 04:09:57,719 --> 04:09:58,680 >> Okay. 5909 04:09:58,719 --> 04:09:59,680 >> Okay. 5910 04:09:59,719 --> 04:10:00,680 >> Okay. 5911 04:10:00,719 --> 04:10:01,680 >> Okay. 5912 04:10:01,719 --> 04:10:02,680 >> Okay. 5913 04:10:02,719 --> 04:10:03,680 >> Okay. 5914 04:10:03,719 --> 04:10:04,680 >> Okay. 5915 04:10:04,719 --> 04:10:05,680 >> Okay. 5916 04:10:05,719 --> 04:10:06,680 >> Okay. 5917 04:10:06,719 --> 04:10:07,680 >> Okay. 5918 04:10:07,719 --> 04:10:08,680 >> Okay. 5919 04:10:08,719 --> 04:10:09,680 >> Okay. 5920 04:10:09,719 --> 04:10:10,680 >> Okay. 5921 04:10:10,719 --> 04:10:11,680 >> Okay. 5922 04:10:11,719 --> 04:10:12,680 >> Okay. 5923 04:10:12,719 --> 04:10:13,680 >> Okay. 5924 04:10:13,719 --> 04:10:14,680 >> Okay. 5925 04:10:14,719 --> 04:10:15,680 >> Okay. 5926 04:10:15,719 --> 04:10:16,680 >> Okay. 5927 04:10:16,719 --> 04:10:17,680 >> Okay. 5928 04:10:17,719 --> 04:10:18,680 >> Okay. 5929 04:10:18,719 --> 04:10:19,680 >> Okay. 5930 04:10:19,719 --> 04:10:20,680 >> Okay. 5931 04:10:20,719 --> 04:10:21,680 >> Okay. 5932 04:10:21,719 --> 04:10:22,680 >> Okay. 5933 04:10:22,719 --> 04:10:23,680 >> Okay. 5934 04:10:23,719 --> 04:10:24,680 >> Okay. 5935 04:10:24,719 --> 04:10:25,680 >> Okay. 5936 04:10:25,719 --> 04:10:26,680 >> Okay. 5937 04:10:26,719 --> 04:10:27,680 >> Okay. 5938 04:10:27,719 --> 04:10:28,680 >> Okay. 5939 04:10:28,719 --> 04:10:29,680 >> Okay. 5940 04:10:29,719 --> 04:10:30,680 >> Okay. 5941 04:10:30,719 --> 04:10:31,680 >> Okay. 5942 04:10:31,719 --> 04:10:32,680 >> Okay. 5943 04:10:32,719 --> 04:10:33,680 >> Okay. 5944 04:10:33,719 --> 04:10:34,680 >> Okay. 5945 04:10:34,719 --> 04:10:35,680 >> Okay. 5946 04:10:35,719 --> 04:10:36,680 >> Okay. 5947 04:10:36,719 --> 04:10:37,680 >> Okay. 5948 04:10:37,719 --> 04:10:38,680 >> Okay. 5949 04:10:38,719 --> 04:10:39,680 >> Okay. 5950 04:10:39,719 --> 04:10:40,680 >> Okay. 5951 04:10:40,719 --> 04:10:41,680 >> Okay. 5952 04:10:41,719 --> 04:10:42,680 >> Okay. 5953 04:10:42,719 --> 04:10:43,680 >> Okay. 5954 04:10:43,719 --> 04:10:44,680 >> Okay. 5955 04:10:44,719 --> 04:10:45,680 >> Okay. 5956 04:10:45,719 --> 04:10:46,680 >> Okay. 5957 04:10:46,719 --> 04:10:47,680 >> Okay. 5958 04:10:47,719 --> 04:10:48,680 >> Okay. 5959 04:10:48,719 --> 04:10:49,680 >> Okay. 5960 04:10:49,719 --> 04:10:50,680 >> Okay. 5961 04:10:50,719 --> 04:10:51,680 >> Okay. 5962 04:10:51,719 --> 04:10:52,680 >> Okay. 5963 04:10:52,719 --> 04:10:53,680 >> Okay. 5964 04:10:53,719 --> 04:10:54,680 >> Okay. 5965 04:10:54,719 --> 04:10:55,680 >> Okay. 5966 04:10:55,719 --> 04:10:56,680 >> Okay. 5967 04:10:56,719 --> 04:10:57,680 >> Okay. 5968 04:10:57,719 --> 04:10:58,680 >> Okay. 5969 04:10:58,719 --> 04:10:59,680 >> Okay. 5970 04:10:59,719 --> 04:11:00,680 >> Okay. 5971 04:11:00,719 --> 04:11:01,680 >> Okay. 5972 04:11:01,719 --> 04:11:02,680 >> Okay. 5973 04:11:02,719 --> 04:11:03,680 >> Okay. 5974 04:11:03,719 --> 04:11:04,680 >> Okay. 5975 04:11:04,719 --> 04:11:05,680 >> Okay. 5976 04:11:05,719 --> 04:11:06,680 >> Okay. 5977 04:11:06,719 --> 04:11:07,680 >> Okay. 5978 04:11:07,719 --> 04:11:08,680 >> Okay. 5979 04:11:08,719 --> 04:11:09,680 >> Okay. 5980 04:11:09,719 --> 04:11:10,680 >> Okay. 5981 04:11:10,719 --> 04:11:11,680 >> Okay. 5982 04:11:11,719 --> 04:11:12,680 >> Okay. 5983 04:11:12,719 --> 04:11:13,680 >> Okay. 5984 04:11:13,719 --> 04:11:14,680 >> Okay. 5985 04:11:14,719 --> 04:11:15,680 >> Okay. 5986 04:11:15,719 --> 04:11:16,680 >> Okay. 5987 04:11:16,719 --> 04:11:17,680 >> Okay. 5988 04:11:17,719 --> 04:11:18,680 >> Okay. 5989 04:11:18,719 --> 04:11:19,680 >> Okay. 5990 04:11:19,719 --> 04:11:20,680 >> Okay. 5991 04:11:20,719 --> 04:11:21,680 >> Okay. 5992 04:11:21,719 --> 04:11:22,680 >> Okay. 5993 04:11:22,719 --> 04:11:23,680 >> Okay. 5994 04:11:23,719 --> 04:11:24,680 >> Okay. 5995 04:11:24,719 --> 04:11:25,680 >> Okay. 5996 04:11:25,719 --> 04:11:26,680 >> Okay. 5997 04:11:26,719 --> 04:11:27,680 >> Okay. 5998 04:11:27,719 --> 04:11:28,680 >> Okay. 5999 04:11:28,719 --> 04:11:29,680 >> Okay. 6000 04:11:29,719 --> 04:11:30,680 >> Okay. 6001 04:11:30,719 --> 04:11:31,680 >> Okay. 6002 04:11:31,719 --> 04:11:32,680 >> Okay. 6003 04:11:32,719 --> 04:11:33,680 >> Okay. 6004 04:11:33,719 --> 04:11:34,680 Great. 6005 04:11:34,719 --> 04:11:36,680 We have nothing else in work session so I'm going to close 6006 04:11:36,680 --> 04:11:39,680 our work session at 940. 6007 04:11:39,719 --> 04:11:41,680 Thank you everyone.