1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,400 meeting it is December 9th 2015 and we are opening our 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:06,480 meeting at 5 p.m. it's 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:10,000 been posted in accordance to the Texas Open Meetings Act 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:11,400 and our first item on 5 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,759 the work on the agenda is clarification of agenda items 6 00:00:14,759 --> 00:00:16,199 listed on the agenda for 7 00:00:16,199 --> 00:00:18,320 this meeting and discussion of issues not briefed in the 8 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:18,960 written backup 9 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,559 materials. Thank You Commissioner Bruegel. We have a final 10 00:00:22,559 --> 00:00:23,960 plat for Redbird Ridge 11 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,059 Edition. I'm going to ask Ross Culbertson to go ahead and 12 00:00:27,059 --> 00:00:27,339 make that 13 00:00:27,339 --> 00:00:36,799 presentation for us tonight. Thank You, Ms. Bruegel. 14 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,710 We have a final plat for Redbird Ridge Estates or Redbird 15 00:00:56,710 --> 00:00:59,200 Ridge Edition. This is 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:05,239 a 41 acre subject property that includes 19 one-point acre 17 00:01:05,239 --> 00:01:09,359 lots, one 17.9 acre lot, 18 00:01:09,359 --> 00:01:15,069 and two HOA lots within the ETJ. This is this property is 19 00:01:15,069 --> 00:01:17,120 off of Fincher Road in 20 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:21,980 Oak Ridge Lane. There was a way I could give you a context 21 00:01:21,980 --> 00:01:24,159 with an aerial map if 22 00:01:24,159 --> 00:01:29,230 you need one. Cutting in between the triangle portion of 23 00:01:29,230 --> 00:01:30,439 the rural areas of 24 00:01:30,439 --> 00:01:35,510 Denton. The owner, the property owner has maintained a 25 00:01:35,510 --> 00:01:36,959 residential homestead in 26 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:42,290 this location on the 40 acres and is now releasing part of 27 00:01:42,290 --> 00:01:43,719 the project for 28 00:01:43,719 --> 00:01:47,939 residential development. With that the project is split 29 00:01:47,939 --> 00:01:49,159 between a public 30 00:01:49,159 --> 00:01:55,500 section and a private homestead lot section here within the 31 00:01:55,500 --> 00:01:57,519 ETJ. The owner 32 00:01:57,519 --> 00:02:02,170 also is trying to consider a or is proposing a equestrian 33 00:02:02,170 --> 00:02:03,319 and greenbelt 34 00:02:03,319 --> 00:02:07,140 trail for public access onto the private lands and those 35 00:02:07,140 --> 00:02:08,599 items will be codified 36 00:02:08,599 --> 00:02:13,419 within upcoming HOA documents and greenbelt documents that 37 00:02:13,419 --> 00:02:14,039 kind of 38 00:02:14,039 --> 00:02:16,949 describe the maintenance and responsibilities of this eas 39 00:02:16,949 --> 00:02:17,479 ement and 40 00:02:17,479 --> 00:02:22,550 access for horse trails and access on to and off public and 41 00:02:22,550 --> 00:02:24,879 private properties. 42 00:02:24,879 --> 00:02:28,349 With that this plan has been reviewed by the county 43 00:02:28,349 --> 00:02:30,240 engineers and through the 44 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,229 city's development review committee so staff is 45 00:02:33,229 --> 00:02:35,840 recommending approval submitted 46 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,919 to you. If you have any questions I could try to answer. 47 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,479 Commissioner Taylor. Thank 48 00:02:44,479 --> 00:02:51,090 you chair. I just have some clarification questions. You 49 00:02:51,090 --> 00:02:51,840 mentioned that 50 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:55,520 there will be a private homestead on the large lot at the 51 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:57,840 back of the property 52 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:02,949 and then potentially a public access easement for equest 53 00:03:02,949 --> 00:03:04,800 rian trail and then 54 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,699 you referred to the front half of the property as public 55 00:03:07,699 --> 00:03:09,919 access. Correct. So I 56 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,650 mean those will be private lots. Is it the street that will 57 00:03:13,650 --> 00:03:14,719 be public access? 58 00:03:14,719 --> 00:03:20,719 Public Street with with private lots for for ownership yes. 59 00:03:20,719 --> 00:03:22,240 Okay and then but it's 60 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,719 not a private development enclosed at the entry here it's a 61 00:03:26,719 --> 00:03:27,680 private development 62 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,090 enclosed here for the private residents in the back. So 63 00:03:31,090 --> 00:03:32,099 really there's so 64 00:03:32,099 --> 00:03:36,629 basically it's not a gated community but there's a gate for 65 00:03:36,629 --> 00:03:37,879 one house at the 66 00:03:37,879 --> 00:03:42,009 back of the property and I was trying to understand the 67 00:03:42,009 --> 00:03:43,560 restrictions that you're 68 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,639 talking about they sound a lot like what might be an indeed 69 00:03:45,639 --> 00:03:47,199 restriction. Are those 70 00:03:47,199 --> 00:03:50,139 applied through the plat or would those be applied through 71 00:03:50,139 --> 00:03:51,199 some other instrument? 72 00:03:51,199 --> 00:03:55,340 Applied with the plat and will be finalized before plat 73 00:03:55,340 --> 00:03:58,719 filing. Okay I'm now a 74 00:03:58,719 --> 00:04:00,800 process question this is pretty uncommon to have 75 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:01,680 restrictions on the plat. 76 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,159 Would that have basically the same force as a deed 77 00:04:05,159 --> 00:04:07,080 restriction and stay in place 78 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:17,069 until the plat is amended? Yes. Okay thank you. Any other 79 00:04:17,069 --> 00:04:19,759 questions for this item? 80 00:04:19,759 --> 00:04:24,839 Okay moving on. Thank you Commissioner Bruegel. The next 81 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:26,480 item is a final flat of 82 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:29,949 perfect finished landscaping addition. Mike Bell would you 83 00:04:29,949 --> 00:04:31,600 please make this 84 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,480 presentation for us tonight? 85 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:54,209 Give me as I pull it up here. This is FB 1521 it's perfect 86 00:04:54,209 --> 00:04:54,279 land perfect 87 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,189 finished landscaping addition we did see a preliminary plat 88 00:04:57,189 --> 00:04:57,959 for this several 89 00:04:57,959 --> 00:05:00,740 months ago. They want to do an office warehouse development 90 00:05:00,740 --> 00:05:01,360 off the fish 91 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:06,560 trap road. It is located in an employment center industrial 92 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:07,040 zoning 93 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,850 districts which does support that use. As I pull the plat 94 00:05:09,850 --> 00:05:12,040 up here which you'll see 95 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:18,720 it's a long narrow lot and there's a small portion of ESA 96 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:19,720 on the background 97 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,360 which they've dedicated some easement for. 98 00:05:26,759 --> 00:05:28,529 You can see it's a long narrow lot and towards the back is 99 00:05:28,529 --> 00:05:30,160 some floodplain 100 00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:33,470 and environmental sensitive area and they've dedicated eas 101 00:05:33,470 --> 00:05:35,360 ement for that and 102 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,720 this is fish trap road along the front. 103 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:52,920 Any questions? Thank you. We have on Mike you just you may 104 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:53,680 want to just stay there. 105 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,759 If you notice on your agenda item 3a is a final replant. 106 00:05:57,759 --> 00:05:59,199 This item has been 107 00:05:59,199 --> 00:06:02,100 withdrawn by the applicant at this time if you recall it 108 00:06:02,100 --> 00:06:03,319 was on your agenda last 109 00:06:03,319 --> 00:06:06,529 time too. The applicant is trying to make some decisions as 110 00:06:06,529 --> 00:06:07,639 it relates to whether 111 00:06:07,639 --> 00:06:11,029 she wants to pursue this or not so it's been withdrawn. The 112 00:06:11,029 --> 00:06:12,959 next item is an SUP 113 00:06:12,959 --> 00:06:16,199 for multifamily dwellings on property that's on NRMU 12 and 114 00:06:16,199 --> 00:06:17,079 I'm gonna ask Mike 115 00:06:17,079 --> 00:06:21,240 Bell to make this presentation tonight. This is S1512 for 116 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:21,680 the Meadowview 117 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:26,319 loss. It is an SUP request to allow multifamily development 118 00:06:26,319 --> 00:06:26,879 . It's they want 119 00:06:26,879 --> 00:06:29,600 34 plexes but according to DDC that would be considered 120 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:30,240 multifamily 121 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:35,600 development on two properties at 609 and 612 Meadowview 122 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,160 Court. The properties are 123 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:43,740 outlined here in yellow. It is zoned neighborhood 124 00:06:43,740 --> 00:06:45,639 residential mixed use 12 125 00:06:45,639 --> 00:06:50,709 which requires an SUP for multifamily development. Some 126 00:06:50,709 --> 00:06:51,920 background this site 127 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,389 was originally a planned development it was PD8 approved in 128 00:06:55,389 --> 00:06:56,959 1970 and this lot 129 00:06:56,959 --> 00:07:02,000 roughly here was approved for apartments but it was platted 130 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,360 in 1972 in its 131 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,029 current configuration which you see here. Ultimately in 132 00:07:07,029 --> 00:07:09,319 1984 PD8 was amended to 133 00:07:09,319 --> 00:07:13,000 allow duplexes on these lots including the two subject 134 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:14,800 properties excuse me 135 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,500 four plexes on these properties. In 1985 you can see that 136 00:07:18,500 --> 00:07:19,560 five of them were built 137 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,579 along Meadowview Court and these two the subject properties 138 00:07:22,579 --> 00:07:23,439 were never built 139 00:07:23,439 --> 00:07:26,790 even though they had approval of a site plan and the lot 140 00:07:26,790 --> 00:07:29,040 here in the middle was 141 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:30,779 actually a pool at one point you can see kind of the 142 00:07:30,779 --> 00:07:31,839 outline where it was filled 143 00:07:31,839 --> 00:07:36,100 in. That pool pre-existed the four plexes on the site it's 144 00:07:36,100 --> 00:07:37,079 not included in 145 00:07:37,079 --> 00:07:42,360 this request and then in 2002 in citywide rezoning it was 146 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:43,399 rezoned NRMU 12 147 00:07:43,399 --> 00:07:46,180 which is that what triggered the SUP requirement and that's 148 00:07:46,180 --> 00:07:46,720 why we're here 149 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:54,040 tonight. There's some photos to show you what's on the side 150 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,560 you see the lots are 151 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,839 just undeveloped with some some trees along the back 152 00:07:57,839 --> 00:08:01,120 property lines and to 153 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,759 give you an idea what those existing four plexes look like 154 00:08:03,759 --> 00:08:05,040 these are the ones 155 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:06,889 on the north side and this is the one on the south side of 156 00:08:06,889 --> 00:08:09,639 Meadowview Court 157 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,959 roughly two stories four units each and here's a site plan 158 00:08:13,959 --> 00:08:15,480 what the applicant's 159 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:19,550 proposing he wants the buildings running Meadowview Court 160 00:08:19,550 --> 00:08:21,000 when the original 161 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,699 development they were originally gonna have all have access 162 00:08:23,699 --> 00:08:24,439 to a driveway in 163 00:08:24,439 --> 00:08:26,420 the back the easements were never dedicated for that 164 00:08:26,420 --> 00:08:27,959 purpose so now it's 165 00:08:27,959 --> 00:08:30,360 under different ownership he can't get access to those 166 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,320 driveways so we're 167 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:37,519 allowing him access from the front along Meadowview Court 168 00:08:37,519 --> 00:08:39,720 and ultimately he's 169 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:44,299 proposing generally all brick facades some siding generally 170 00:08:44,299 --> 00:08:45,600 consistent with 171 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:51,340 what's out there today. Some considerations in our 172 00:08:51,340 --> 00:08:53,720 recommendation it 173 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,620 is it has been intended for multifamily since 1970 and four 174 00:08:56,620 --> 00:08:58,000 plexes since 1984 175 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,409 the other ones were built in 1985 the proposal is 176 00:09:01,409 --> 00:09:03,080 consistent scale the density 177 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,370 of surrounding properties and it does comply with the 178 00:09:05,370 --> 00:09:07,120 criteria for approval in 179 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:08,740 your backup I'd be happy to go through that if you have any 180 00:09:08,740 --> 00:09:09,279 questions about 181 00:09:09,279 --> 00:09:14,669 that and we did send notice to property owners we received 182 00:09:14,669 --> 00:09:15,879 one in opposition and 183 00:09:15,879 --> 00:09:21,480 one neutral and based on those considerations we do 184 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:22,240 recommend approval 185 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,950 this request with conditions first that the maximum density 186 00:09:25,950 --> 00:09:27,159 shall be four units 187 00:09:27,159 --> 00:09:29,879 each building shall have no greater than two stories in 188 00:09:29,879 --> 00:09:30,639 height and the 189 00:09:30,639 --> 00:09:33,190 development shall substantially comply with the attached 190 00:09:33,190 --> 00:09:34,759 site plan with that 191 00:09:34,759 --> 00:09:40,940 I'll stand for any questions. Commissioner Beck. Thank you 192 00:09:40,940 --> 00:09:44,039 Chair. The lot where it was a pool at one time it's filled 193 00:09:44,039 --> 00:09:46,769 over everything and there's a rickety old chain lead fence 194 00:09:46,769 --> 00:09:51,379 there now. Is that going to be kept isolated from the other 195 00:09:51,379 --> 00:09:51,919 lots? 196 00:09:51,919 --> 00:09:55,019 Yes when he originally came in we said we asked him is 197 00:09:55,019 --> 00:09:56,000 there way you could 198 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:57,899 approach that owner maybe incorporate that in it makes a 199 00:09:57,899 --> 00:09:58,919 little more practical 200 00:09:58,919 --> 00:10:01,259 sense if that were included in the development he agreed 201 00:10:01,259 --> 00:10:01,960 and did approach 202 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,440 the property owner but he wasn't willing to sell so 203 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,159 ultimately it will kind of be 204 00:10:06,159 --> 00:10:08,649 isolated but not through the effects of this owner through 205 00:10:08,649 --> 00:10:09,159 the effects of 206 00:10:09,159 --> 00:10:13,820 previous owners. Will they keep the fence up? That I don't 207 00:10:13,820 --> 00:10:17,879 know. Okay and you mentioned that the newer ones are pretty 208 00:10:17,879 --> 00:10:21,029 much all brick? That's correct. It looked like the picture 209 00:10:21,029 --> 00:10:23,639 you're showing us of the old ones mainly siding. They were 210 00:10:23,639 --> 00:10:25,320 siding on the second floor and brick on the first floor. 211 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:29,000 Okay okay and then one question for educational purposes in 212 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:29,679 here it says the 213 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,879 density of moderate residential which this area is should 214 00:10:32,879 --> 00:10:34,360 range between 4 to 12 215 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,179 units per acre so what are you calling a unit here you've 216 00:10:37,179 --> 00:10:38,480 got four plexes is that 217 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:45,090 a unit or is each four plex considered a single unit? Each 218 00:10:45,090 --> 00:10:47,440 unit within the four plexes is a unit so four units would 219 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,600 be a four plex. Okay okay. 220 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:56,370 Thank you. Commissioner Hutzbeth. Thank you chair. Can you 221 00:10:56,370 --> 00:11:01,960 walk me through the easement I'm curious if you've given 222 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,679 that any thought so you have this these two units you have 223 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:08,279 access from the front and what are we talking years 224 00:11:08,279 --> 00:11:11,600 everyone's been able to you know I just I'm curious about 225 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,000 that have you given that any thought and what was the your 226 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,210 words they couldn't get an easement in the back and so help 227 00:11:19,210 --> 00:11:19,519 me understand. 228 00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:22,230 Okay the area will probably help me demonstrate that a 229 00:11:22,230 --> 00:11:23,799 little bit better but 230 00:11:23,799 --> 00:11:27,029 you'll see there are driveways on the back of the existing 231 00:11:27,029 --> 00:11:28,240 properties that's 232 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,940 how they get their access and the original plan from 1984 233 00:11:31,940 --> 00:11:32,679 showed this 234 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,860 driveway wrapping all the way around the site but without 235 00:11:36,860 --> 00:11:38,320 any easements 236 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,639 dedicated that these that a new owner could access through 237 00:11:41,639 --> 00:11:43,279 these properties he 238 00:11:43,279 --> 00:11:46,090 has no right to access through those driveways he'd have to 239 00:11:46,090 --> 00:11:46,820 purchase the 240 00:11:46,820 --> 00:11:49,820 easement that he can connect to his property in the back 241 00:11:49,820 --> 00:11:51,559 ultimately decided 242 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:57,200 was he can have access from the front. So were those 243 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:04,960 conversations so is it I don't 244 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,120 understand how you can own the property maybe I'm missing 245 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:08,320 something he owns that 246 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:11,139 property but you're saying he doesn't have the right to 247 00:12:11,139 --> 00:12:12,480 drive he owns these two 248 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:14,990 properties right he does not own these two properties got 249 00:12:14,990 --> 00:12:15,879 it and those two 250 00:12:15,879 --> 00:12:21,919 properties do not have an easement correct okay got it. Now 251 00:12:21,919 --> 00:12:25,990 Mike. Commission Jadowitz. As I look at the plant they'll 252 00:12:25,990 --> 00:12:27,480 have access from the front 253 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,039 but actually they'll be parking in the side of the back 254 00:12:30,039 --> 00:12:30,759 that's correct that's 255 00:12:30,759 --> 00:12:34,000 just a drive that's correct requirement for that driveway 256 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,440 in another sense of a 257 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:42,840 homeowner having a driveway up to the side of the building. 258 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:42,840 Okay. 259 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,950 Commissioner Buck. The one opposition we got here is on Don 260 00:12:48,950 --> 00:12:51,120 ister. Is that that 261 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:55,440 hat right there? Okay. 262 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:05,730 Anyone else? Okay thank you Mike. The next item on the 263 00:13:05,730 --> 00:13:09,679 agenda is a consider a 264 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:15,269 public hearing for a specific use permit or basic utility 265 00:13:15,269 --> 00:13:17,080 for a substation and 266 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:21,820 I'm going to have Mike Bell make this presentation as well. 267 00:13:21,820 --> 00:13:23,360 All right this one 268 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:28,200 is S1511 for the DME Locust substation. This request is an 269 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:29,519 SUP for a basic 270 00:13:29,519 --> 00:13:33,039 utility or it's going to be eventually be a DME substation 271 00:13:33,039 --> 00:13:34,559 on 6.2 acres in the 272 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:38,370 DCG zoning district. It's located on the southwest corner 273 00:13:38,370 --> 00:13:39,799 of Collins Street and 274 00:13:39,799 --> 00:13:43,429 Locust Street in the area shown in yellow. There's an 275 00:13:43,429 --> 00:13:44,639 existing substation 276 00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:47,580 south of the property. This is part of the DME's overall 277 00:13:47,580 --> 00:13:48,879 upgrade to their system 278 00:13:48,879 --> 00:13:52,179 requires upgrade to this substation. This is the site that 279 00:13:52,179 --> 00:13:53,440 's been approved by City 280 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,519 Council for the substation. Site photo is showing you what 281 00:13:57,519 --> 00:14:00,320 's on site. This was in 282 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,110 auto repair shop. It's been demolished and then undeveloped 283 00:14:04,110 --> 00:14:05,120 property on the 284 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:10,220 north side. And this is the housing to the north side of 285 00:14:10,220 --> 00:14:11,840 Collins Street. You can see 286 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,649 there's a house, one or two houses with this general style 287 00:14:14,649 --> 00:14:15,799 and then one house on 288 00:14:15,799 --> 00:14:20,870 the corner of Collins and Locust that has this metal fence. 289 00:14:20,870 --> 00:14:24,519 The zoning is DCG. 290 00:14:24,519 --> 00:14:27,009 It's located with an area that's intended to be kind of 291 00:14:27,009 --> 00:14:27,879 high-intensity 292 00:14:27,879 --> 00:14:33,240 central business district type development. It allows 293 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,399 things like multifamily and 294 00:14:35,399 --> 00:14:40,879 commercial. This is the proposed site plan of the site. 295 00:14:40,879 --> 00:14:42,440 These are the interior 296 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,149 drives of Collins and two off of Locust. They need these 297 00:14:46,149 --> 00:14:47,000 drives for the 298 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,909 maneuvering of the large trucks that bring the transformers 299 00:14:48,909 --> 00:14:49,519 into the site. 300 00:14:49,519 --> 00:14:52,629 Very large trucks have a big turning radius. That's why 301 00:14:52,629 --> 00:14:54,120 there's so much area 302 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,509 devoted to the driveways. There will be a 10-foot masonry 303 00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:58,320 wall as we've seen 304 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,940 with all the substations that have come through here and 305 00:15:01,940 --> 00:15:02,600 they will maintain 306 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,200 open space and the trees to the southern end of the lot. 307 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,460 And then to protect the 308 00:15:08,460 --> 00:15:11,559 neighbor or the existing houses to the north, they provided 309 00:15:11,559 --> 00:15:13,279 enhanced landscaping 310 00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:17,659 and trees, street trees and sidewalk along Collins Street. 311 00:15:17,659 --> 00:15:19,080 This is an example 312 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:23,720 of the masonry wall that they've done on other substations. 313 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,789 And this is a section of what you'll see on the Collins 314 00:15:27,789 --> 00:15:30,480 side. The 10-foot masonry 315 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,090 wall here, a three-foot planting area with a sidewalk, 316 00:15:34,090 --> 00:15:35,679 eight foot sidewalk and 317 00:15:35,679 --> 00:15:39,750 10 foot, 10 and a half foot parkway with street trees in it 318 00:15:39,750 --> 00:15:41,200 to kind of relieve the 319 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:42,759 starkness of that wall. 320 00:15:46,559 --> 00:15:47,830 Some of our considerations and our recommendation, subst 321 00:15:47,830 --> 00:15:49,919 ations are an essential 322 00:15:49,919 --> 00:15:52,289 component of the city's infrastructure and therefore when 323 00:15:52,289 --> 00:15:53,039 it's necessary to 324 00:15:53,039 --> 00:15:56,279 look at them in urban areas, the site should be created to 325 00:15:56,279 --> 00:15:57,360 create the least 326 00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,960 amount of impact on surrounding properties. To do that they 327 00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:01,120 've provided 328 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:03,590 the 10-foot masonry wall and enhanced landscaping as I've 329 00:16:03,590 --> 00:16:05,039 discussed to protect 330 00:16:05,039 --> 00:16:06,879 the existing single-family homes. 331 00:16:09,279 --> 00:16:13,450 We did send notice to residents within 200 feet and 79 feet 332 00:16:13,450 --> 00:16:14,879 . We did receive three 333 00:16:14,879 --> 00:16:18,240 in favor and then we received the one typewritten 334 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:19,200 opposition letter that you 335 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,799 received prior to the meeting. 336 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,950 And the ones in favor were just these slivers here that are 337 00:16:26,950 --> 00:16:29,279 barely within the line, 338 00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:30,559 just in case you're curious. 339 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,559 Mike, would you go back to that slide please? 340 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,679 They are located along Forward Drive. You can see there's a 341 00:16:39,679 --> 00:16:40,960 slight bit of green. 342 00:16:41,759 --> 00:16:45,070 That fell, their property that counts in the percentage, 343 00:16:45,070 --> 00:16:47,360 that fell within 200 feet 344 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,909 and there's a slide exactly right here. You can't really 345 00:16:49,909 --> 00:16:51,360 see it on this map but... 346 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:52,720 And where's the opposition? 347 00:16:53,039 --> 00:16:55,440 The opposition was, I forget, it's one of these houses 348 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:57,039 right here along Collins Street. 349 00:16:57,039 --> 00:17:00,629 Well it gives an address as Elm Street. I'm sorry, that's 350 00:17:00,629 --> 00:17:00,799 you. 351 00:17:00,799 --> 00:17:01,600 Okay, I'm sorry. 352 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:02,799 120 West Collins? 353 00:17:02,799 --> 00:17:03,299 Yeah. 354 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:06,319 So it's just not filled? 355 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:09,599 We got it this afternoon as before I made the presentation. 356 00:17:11,279 --> 00:17:12,319 I apologize for that. 357 00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:17,680 Based on the considerations and what you received in your 358 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:18,400 backup, 359 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,839 staff does recommend approval of this SUP subject to two 360 00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:21,440 conditions. 361 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:25,619 One, that the substation shall provide the 10-foot masonry 362 00:17:25,619 --> 00:17:25,920 wall 363 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,559 and that the substation comply with the attached site plan. 364 00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:30,720 These are the standard conditions we've applied to every 365 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:31,759 substation that we've seen. 366 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:33,920 And with that I'll answer any questions. 367 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:36,720 Commissioner Rossell. 368 00:17:37,279 --> 00:17:37,779 Thank you, Chair. 369 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,079 You mentioned large trucks needed for the construction. 370 00:17:42,079 --> 00:17:46,720 Two questions. Do large trucks come in on a continual basis 371 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,000 or is that a one-time shot, 372 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,700 build it and they leave? And second to that is last time I 373 00:17:51,700 --> 00:17:53,359 was on Collins and Locust, 374 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,440 those streets are not in the greatest condition. 375 00:17:56,319 --> 00:17:58,640 In the current condition, do they support a one-time 376 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,480 movement of big trucks or going back to the 377 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,720 first point, multiple uses of big trucks? 378 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,700 Let me answer the first question. The first question is 379 00:18:04,700 --> 00:18:05,920 they'll be there for the construction 380 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,809 of the site to install the transformers and then if need be 381 00:18:09,809 --> 00:18:12,160 in an emergency event that one of those 382 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,279 goes down and they need to restore power, that truck may 383 00:18:14,279 --> 00:18:15,440 have to come back for that. 384 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,160 But other than that, the daily traffic would be one DME 385 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,400 pickup truck going to check on the side every day. 386 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:20,900 Okay. 387 00:18:21,839 --> 00:18:24,319 Secondly, the improvement of the road. 388 00:18:24,319 --> 00:18:26,240 There are agreements with engineering that they repair any 389 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:27,039 damage done to the 390 00:18:27,039 --> 00:18:28,799 existing roads during construction. 391 00:18:28,799 --> 00:18:29,299 Okay. 392 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:32,720 Commissioner Taylor. 393 00:18:33,759 --> 00:18:36,240 Thank you, Chair. I had a couple of questions about the 394 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:36,799 site plan. 395 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,690 So I'm just noticing that the southernmost portion is in 396 00:18:45,690 --> 00:18:49,039 the request, but it has no plans for 397 00:18:49,039 --> 00:18:52,049 improvement. Is that just to make sure that all of the DME- 398 00:18:52,049 --> 00:18:53,519 owned property is 399 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,279 correctly permitted in case they expand or...? 400 00:18:57,279 --> 00:18:58,960 It was that and as well as meeting their tree code 401 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,440 requirements, they had they preserved those trees. 402 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,000 Okay, so I see part of the mitigation. 403 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,519 My second question is the sidewalk along Collins is pretty 404 00:19:07,519 --> 00:19:10,400 great. The large parkway and the eight 405 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,609 foot sidewalk. Is there any plan to do any kind of sidewalk 406 00:19:13,609 --> 00:19:17,039 along Locust? Is there just like any...? 407 00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:18,890 Yes, there will be a sidewalk, but there will not be 408 00:19:18,890 --> 00:19:19,920 landscaping per se. 409 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:21,519 And that's the side facing the road runs. 410 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,940 Okay, so it's not on the site plan, but it just will be 411 00:19:24,940 --> 00:19:25,279 required? 412 00:19:25,279 --> 00:19:27,579 It would be in the right way at this point. Yeah, just this 413 00:19:27,579 --> 00:19:29,119 one had limited space, so we 414 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:30,400 may have to force the sidewalk back. 415 00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:31,539 Thank you. 416 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,279 Commissioner Hunstead. 417 00:19:35,279 --> 00:19:35,839 Thank you, Chair. 418 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:42,700 So near the train track, obviously the other substation is 419 00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:45,519 the same, but does that give 420 00:19:46,799 --> 00:19:52,319 any consideration to the same masonry wall next to a train 421 00:19:52,319 --> 00:19:54,400 track? Train comes off the rails, 422 00:19:55,519 --> 00:19:59,609 power issues? I mean, I'm just thinking that there is a 423 00:19:59,609 --> 00:20:02,799 distinct difference in one that's on Bonnie 424 00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:05,910 Bray isolated and if a car comes off the road, it hits the 425 00:20:05,910 --> 00:20:08,480 10 foot wall that built the same versus 426 00:20:09,599 --> 00:20:12,400 a train coming off. And also there's that intersection 427 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,400 there at, I guess that's Doherty 428 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:21,009 that goes across the track, so hits a car and it's just a 429 00:20:21,009 --> 00:20:23,519 lot more at stake than just the small one. 430 00:20:23,519 --> 00:20:27,359 It's kind of set back. Did that warrant any consideration? 431 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,269 Are you talking in terms of somebody crashing into the wall 432 00:20:30,269 --> 00:20:31,359 of the substation? 433 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:32,960 Yes, the train coming off. 434 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,559 And I have to ask DME if they've got any concerns with 435 00:20:36,559 --> 00:20:37,839 their engineering of that wall. We've had 436 00:20:37,839 --> 00:20:40,849 that question before about cars, but I don't know that it's 437 00:20:40,849 --> 00:20:42,319 happened with the train. 438 00:20:42,319 --> 00:20:43,759 Does DME have anything to offer on that? 439 00:20:56,079 --> 00:20:58,240 Phil Williams, General Manager, Dent Municipal Electric. 440 00:20:59,599 --> 00:21:03,029 So south of here is the existing substation that's been 441 00:21:03,029 --> 00:21:05,359 there for about 50 years with a 442 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:09,869 cyclone fence. And so while certainly it'd be hard to stop 443 00:21:09,869 --> 00:21:14,319 a train, and that would be at risk, 444 00:21:14,319 --> 00:21:17,500 our greatest security for our substations is duplication of 445 00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:19,119 those substations having one to 446 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,019 back up another one, which is why we have our expansion 447 00:21:22,019 --> 00:21:25,440 plan. And so we now instead of just a 448 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,660 cyclone fence which surrounds the existing substation, we 449 00:21:28,660 --> 00:21:30,240 put a masonry wall and that's 450 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:35,309 our future standard for all our substations to prevent 451 00:21:35,309 --> 00:21:38,559 drive-by shooting into substation and 452 00:21:38,559 --> 00:21:41,480 protect from it give us better protection from cars and 453 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,359 things driving into a substation. 454 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,430 As far as that preventing a train from driving in there, 455 00:21:46,430 --> 00:21:49,759 probably not. But I guess the greater 456 00:21:49,759 --> 00:21:53,440 security we have for it is having to back up substation 457 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,680 that each of these substations are 458 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,079 built to back up the other in case that kind of event. 459 00:21:59,039 --> 00:22:01,039 Okay. Thank you. 460 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:03,930 Phil, I'm sorry, could you stay there for a second? I have 461 00:22:03,930 --> 00:22:04,960 a question, please. 462 00:22:07,519 --> 00:22:10,349 Recently DME brought a proposal to city council for a subst 463 00:22:10,349 --> 00:22:12,319 ation near UNT. I believe it was like 464 00:22:12,319 --> 00:22:15,920 Harvin Collins area and that was rejected by city council. 465 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,160 I'm curious, is this a totally separate 466 00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:22,150 project or is this maybe the alternative to what you all 467 00:22:22,150 --> 00:22:23,839 were trying to do there? 468 00:22:23,839 --> 00:22:26,579 No, that's part of what we're trying to do for our overall 469 00:22:26,579 --> 00:22:28,480 capital program is both aging 470 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:32,710 infrastructure replacement and growth. And so this is a 471 00:22:32,710 --> 00:22:36,000 little bit of both. It's addressing the 50 472 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,509 year old substation that we're trying to replace and 473 00:22:38,509 --> 00:22:41,599 upgrade from 69,000 volt substation to 138. 474 00:22:42,319 --> 00:22:45,279 And so but it's also bigger. And so it's addressing both 475 00:22:45,279 --> 00:22:46,480 those. It's replacing the 476 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,089 aging infrastructure and growth. The additional substation, 477 00:22:50,089 --> 00:22:52,319 the Eagle substation that was proposed 478 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,690 and council gave us direction to exclude consideration of 479 00:22:58,690 --> 00:23:00,720 one of the sites called the 480 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:05,640 blue site that was involved 13, 14 homes and focus on other 481 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,359 sites. That's in addition to this one. 482 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,809 That was seen because of growth. Okay. It's just the 483 00:23:11,809 --> 00:23:14,000 additional growth at UNT and all the additional 484 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,690 growth around downtown right now that load or part of that 485 00:23:16,690 --> 00:23:18,400 load is being carried by this local 486 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,920 substation with the additional substation capacity to for 487 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,440 now and for the future. 488 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,680 Okay. Thank you. That's very helpful. Thank you. 489 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:33,279 Thank you. Is there a, do you have a doc? Obviously you do, 490 00:23:33,279 --> 00:23:35,119 but is there something that you could share 491 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,569 that kind of captures what you just said that the loads and 492 00:23:39,569 --> 00:23:42,000 what stations do and what they're, 493 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,009 you know, just a visual of where the backup is, where it 494 00:23:46,009 --> 00:23:48,400 needs to expand or how the system 495 00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:51,369 just functions. That would just be good for me to 496 00:23:51,369 --> 00:23:53,599 understand that better and the redundancy, 497 00:23:53,599 --> 00:23:57,039 that sort of thing. Just have a some sort of roadmap on how 498 00:23:57,039 --> 00:23:58,559 it all kind of works together. 499 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:04,369 Certainly, Mr. We have a every year we file our capital 500 00:24:04,369 --> 00:24:06,960 improvement program and we review that 501 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,069 with city management, then with our public utility board, 502 00:24:10,069 --> 00:24:12,240 which fits that and then ultimately with 503 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,700 city council that approves that capital improvement program 504 00:24:15,700 --> 00:24:18,000 . And so involved in that capital improvement 505 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,029 program is our capital plans for the next five years of all 506 00:24:22,029 --> 00:24:24,559 the substations we plan to build and 507 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:27,519 and how they're related to each other and what the timing 508 00:24:27,519 --> 00:24:28,160 is of those. 509 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,289 I believe we address those issues and we'd be glad to 510 00:24:31,289 --> 00:24:33,279 provide that. Okay, great. Thank you. 511 00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:39,069 And we have had, I think some new commissioners come on 512 00:24:39,069 --> 00:24:44,240 board since we last had DME come in before all the 513 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,700 first five or six substations, it might be beneficial. We 514 00:24:46,700 --> 00:24:48,079 've got a couple some of those, 515 00:24:48,079 --> 00:24:50,579 like you said, on Eagle and another on Hickory that are 516 00:24:50,579 --> 00:24:52,559 going to be closer to downtown, so maybe 517 00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:56,029 it might be beneficial if we have them back in to explain 518 00:24:56,029 --> 00:24:57,599 that process. Yes. 519 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,000 Are there any other questions for this item? 520 00:25:06,319 --> 00:25:08,079 No? Okay, thanks Mike. 521 00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:17,049 So I believe we're moving on at this point. Yes, absolutely 522 00:25:17,049 --> 00:25:20,240 . Talk about our receiver report, item 523 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,240 one, I'm sorry, item 2a, work session report. Receive a 524 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,119 report and hold a discussion regarding 525 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,420 proposed amendments to sub chapter 13 site design standards 526 00:25:29,420 --> 00:25:32,319 , section 35 13 7 tree preservation and 527 00:25:32,319 --> 00:25:35,430 landscape requirements of the debt and development code. 528 00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:38,079 Thank you Commissioner Birgel. Shandrin Jarvis 529 00:25:38,079 --> 00:25:40,779 will be presenting this item to us tonight. Thank you Shand 530 00:25:40,779 --> 00:25:42,559 rin. You're welcome. Good evening 531 00:25:42,559 --> 00:25:46,259 commissioners. I'm Shandrin Jarvis with the planning 532 00:25:46,259 --> 00:25:50,000 division. The next item is SI 1524. These are 533 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,410 proposed amendments to the tree preservation and landscape 534 00:25:53,410 --> 00:25:55,599 requirements. As many of you know, 535 00:25:55,599 --> 00:25:58,160 staff is in the process of updating this section of the 536 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,519 debt and development code and the intent 537 00:26:01,519 --> 00:26:05,650 of tonight's meeting is to give you a progress report, an 538 00:26:05,650 --> 00:26:08,160 update on our progress to date. 539 00:26:09,519 --> 00:26:14,000 We do intend to bring a full report with the final staff 540 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,599 recommendations forward for consideration 541 00:26:17,599 --> 00:26:22,640 in the first part of 2016. So with that I will begin. 542 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,069 The existing regulations were adopted in 2004 to promote 543 00:26:31,069 --> 00:26:34,160 tree preservation and to facilitate 544 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,710 site design and construction that would allow for the long- 545 00:26:37,710 --> 00:26:39,200 term viability of trees. 546 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,720 Over time the regulations have proved to be a bit complex. 547 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,319 What we hear from our development 548 00:26:48,319 --> 00:26:52,349 community is that the regulations, there's so many 549 00:26:52,349 --> 00:26:55,519 variations in the regulations that it's often 550 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,349 difficult to determine which standards to apply for a given 551 00:26:59,349 --> 00:27:03,359 project. From our tree advocates we 552 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,480 hear that the existing regulations don't seem to be very 553 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,079 effective because we're still losing 554 00:27:10,079 --> 00:27:18,640 a significant amount of tree cover. Between 2007 and 2013 555 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,480 there were multiple attempts to 556 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:26,119 update this section of code and none have been successful 557 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,400 because for the failure to reach a 558 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,180 consensus on the proposed amendments. So there's still a 559 00:27:32,180 --> 00:27:36,160 need to provide clarity, sorry, in the 560 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:41,230 section of code to facilitate future permitting and then to 561 00:27:41,230 --> 00:27:44,079 reach to achieve the goals that we've 562 00:27:44,079 --> 00:27:47,730 identified in the existing ordinance, in the comprehensive 563 00:27:47,730 --> 00:27:49,839 plan, and then in the city strategic 564 00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:53,900 plan. And this is part of the reason why council directed 565 00:27:53,900 --> 00:27:56,559 staff, well I understand it was before my 566 00:27:56,559 --> 00:28:03,140 time, to begin this latest update. So as a part of this 567 00:28:03,140 --> 00:28:09,200 effort staff identified the key task and 568 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,750 milestones that you see on the screen. As you can see we've 569 00:28:12,750 --> 00:28:15,200 completed our research and benchmark 570 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:19,740 analysis. We've wrapped up our internal stakeholders with 571 00:28:19,740 --> 00:28:23,839 the other city departments. We have kicked 572 00:28:23,839 --> 00:28:27,299 off our external stakeholder meetings. The first one we had 573 00:28:27,299 --> 00:28:29,440 last week was with the DIN Community 574 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,619 Development Alliance which we received some very helpful 575 00:28:33,619 --> 00:28:37,839 feedback. We have another meeting 576 00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:41,119 scheduled for this week with Keep Dinnin' Beautiful and in 577 00:28:41,119 --> 00:28:43,279 addition to that we will be conducting 578 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,730 a visual preference survey of the community. So all that 579 00:28:47,730 --> 00:28:49,599 with the goal of again coming back 580 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,720 for full consideration at the beginning of next year. 581 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,460 So in a few minutes. Commissioner Dudowitz, you have a 582 00:28:59,460 --> 00:29:00,559 question? I have a question. 583 00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:03,680 You want me to go back to the stakeholders. You're 584 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,880 involving citizens. Have you had discussions with 585 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,910 any of the developers within the city or anybody that has 586 00:29:09,910 --> 00:29:11,839 that side of the perspective? Yes, we 587 00:29:11,839 --> 00:29:19,589 actually met with the DIN Community Development Alliance 588 00:29:19,589 --> 00:29:21,759 last week. 589 00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:31,039 So in a minute you'll hear Haywood who's our urban forester 590 00:29:31,039 --> 00:29:33,920 present our initial staff recommendations. 591 00:29:34,559 --> 00:29:37,299 But first I wanted to go through what we did for the 592 00:29:37,299 --> 00:29:39,359 benchmark city analysis. 593 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:45,119 We looked at 10 cities around the state, most of which have 594 00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:46,720 similar population sizes 595 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,859 and growth projections to Dinnin'. And we focused on five 596 00:29:51,859 --> 00:29:54,880 key areas which were the established tree 597 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,130 designations and these are the tree classifications that 598 00:29:59,130 --> 00:30:01,839 will be subject to the preservation 599 00:30:01,839 --> 00:30:06,420 ordinance. Minimum preservation percentages which is the 600 00:30:06,420 --> 00:30:09,759 percentage of existing trees on the site 601 00:30:09,759 --> 00:30:14,559 that would have to be preserved during site development. 602 00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:16,960 Tree mitigation ratios which would 603 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,319 get applied when the minimum preservation percentages are 604 00:30:20,319 --> 00:30:23,440 not met. And then the tree 605 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,619 fund or payment and loot option which these are fees that 606 00:30:26,619 --> 00:30:30,240 get collected if the... and Haywood, 607 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:35,529 you'll have to help me out. When the minimum preservation 608 00:30:35,529 --> 00:30:37,920 percentages are not met 609 00:30:39,119 --> 00:30:44,400 and let me just go through this. Just a second. So these 610 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,400 payments get collected when it's 611 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,789 determined that the mitigation of tree removal by planting 612 00:30:49,789 --> 00:30:51,839 of trees on site is not feasible or 613 00:30:51,839 --> 00:30:55,009 desirable. And then we finally we have the preservation 614 00:30:55,009 --> 00:30:56,880 incentives which are inducements 615 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,519 or encouragements for the developers to go above the 616 00:30:59,519 --> 00:31:03,279 minimum requirements. Commissioner Becker. 617 00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:07,779 Thank you, Chair. So if we're not going to get our minimum 618 00:31:07,779 --> 00:31:10,319 trees because of what they're building 619 00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:12,450 there and they have to fork over some money to put trees 620 00:31:12,450 --> 00:31:15,279 elsewhere, is that essentially what you're saying? 621 00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:18,380 They either they have the option to plant trees in other 622 00:31:18,380 --> 00:31:20,720 places on the site or they can pay into 623 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:25,599 the funds to get... and Haywood will... he's much more vers 624 00:31:25,599 --> 00:31:27,759 ed in this than I am and he'll get into 625 00:31:27,759 --> 00:31:36,569 that in the next part of our presentation. Okay. So what we 626 00:31:36,569 --> 00:31:37,519 found was that 627 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:42,329 DEN's tree and landscape code is probably one of the most 628 00:31:42,329 --> 00:31:44,319 complex of the ones that we've studied. 629 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,460 We have seven tree designations compared to an average of 630 00:31:48,460 --> 00:31:50,160 three for the benchmark cities. 631 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:56,819 And our 39 options for preservation which vary based on lot 632 00:31:56,819 --> 00:31:59,039 size, development type, 633 00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:04,240 and tree designations are significantly more than the 634 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:05,119 benchmark cities. 635 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,089 We also found that in terms of the preservation and 636 00:32:09,089 --> 00:32:13,039 mitigation standards themselves, we're trailing 637 00:32:13,039 --> 00:32:16,539 when compared to the other cities. For example, we have the 638 00:32:16,539 --> 00:32:18,880 lowest minimum tree preservation 639 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,690 requirements. We have no requirement or incentive to save 640 00:32:22,690 --> 00:32:25,359 large trees or anything over 18 inches. 641 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,440 And then we have the lowest mitigation rates for tree 642 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,559 removal of the cities that we study. 643 00:32:34,319 --> 00:32:38,849 So again, I want to just want to reiterate that these the 644 00:32:38,849 --> 00:32:40,559 recommendations that you're about to 645 00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:44,640 hear are our initial first cut after we've done our 646 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,640 research. We do intend to incorporate the 647 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,180 feedback that we that we receive from the stakeholders 648 00:32:51,180 --> 00:32:52,400 before we get to the final 649 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,059 recommendations. And unless you have any questions for me, 650 00:32:55,059 --> 00:32:56,720 I'm going to turn it over to Haywood. 651 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,539 Commissioner Roselle. Thank you. You studied the 10 other 652 00:33:02,539 --> 00:33:06,400 cities. Is there a way or is it public 653 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,369 information easy for me to access the tree preservation 654 00:33:09,369 --> 00:33:11,359 requirements in those 10 other 655 00:33:11,359 --> 00:33:14,369 cities so that maybe I can contextualize exactly what their 656 00:33:14,369 --> 00:33:16,880 requirements are currently? Yes. 657 00:33:17,759 --> 00:33:21,109 We actually do. We have the backup data for that and I 658 00:33:21,109 --> 00:33:22,880 believe we did a summary table 659 00:33:23,839 --> 00:33:26,640 for each of the cities that we can make available to you. 660 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:27,759 Perfect. Thank you. Okay. 661 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,819 I have a question. So we're comparing our tree code with 10 662 00:33:32,819 --> 00:33:34,720 other benchmark cities. 663 00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:37,599 You said that we're trailing these other cities, but how 664 00:33:37,599 --> 00:33:39,920 are those cities doing? Are they increasing 665 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,400 their tree canopy? Are they just maintaining it? Are they 666 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:43,759 also losing it but at a slightly 667 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,579 slower pace? How are they doing? In the cross section, it 668 00:33:48,579 --> 00:33:51,599 varies just based on where you are. 669 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,950 And Haywood can speak to that. I'm not the tree expert. I'm 670 00:33:55,950 --> 00:33:57,440 sorry. That's fine. It's okay. Thank 671 00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,450 you. But we'll get into that. Yes ma'am. Thank you. In the 672 00:33:59,450 --> 00:34:02,319 next part. Okay. And just to iterate what 673 00:34:02,319 --> 00:34:04,700 Shandrin said, what we're doing is we want to work 674 00:34:04,700 --> 00:34:07,359 collaboratively with yourselves and start moving 675 00:34:07,359 --> 00:34:10,719 forward with discussing, for instance, the benchmarking. We 676 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,239 'll get you the summary table 677 00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,760 to that. But tonight's discussion is just for us to get the 678 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,239 ball rolling, start getting your input. 679 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,809 You will be seeing this item more and more through work 680 00:34:20,809 --> 00:34:23,360 sessions prior to any final recommendation. 681 00:34:24,079 --> 00:34:26,679 But from what we've seen when we start looking at the 682 00:34:26,679 --> 00:34:30,159 parameters associated with landscaping 683 00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:33,179 and tree preservation requirements, perhaps how we're 684 00:34:33,179 --> 00:34:35,519 viewing our mitigation requirements from 685 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,300 caliper inch to caliper inch, or should it be looked at 686 00:34:39,300 --> 00:34:41,360 differently from a canopy cover 687 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,070 perspective, all that will be brought to light. And we want 688 00:34:44,070 --> 00:34:45,920 to go through this very slowly and 689 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,070 somewhat painstakingly just to make sure we're all on the 690 00:34:48,070 --> 00:34:51,679 same page. Commissioner Dutowitz. Yes. 691 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,489 Let's talk about the benchmark cities in the list. How were 692 00:34:55,489 --> 00:34:57,679 those determined? What was the criteria 693 00:34:57,679 --> 00:35:03,750 for them? What was the methodology, I guess? We studied the 694 00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:07,199 , looked at the population size. 695 00:35:07,199 --> 00:35:11,119 So we wanted cities that were similar in size to what Den 696 00:35:11,119 --> 00:35:12,719 is and where we are going. 697 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,440 They have some of the same components that we're dealing 698 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:18,880 with. Some of them, 699 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,230 most of them have universities and they're dealing with 700 00:35:21,230 --> 00:35:22,719 those different kind of issues. 701 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:28,650 They're cities that, in a sense, we compete with for 702 00:35:28,650 --> 00:35:32,719 business. For what, please? Business and for, 703 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,679 in terms of attracting growth and those different things. 704 00:35:39,679 --> 00:35:43,360 They're in a sense our competitors. 705 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,460 Okay, because I'm looking at the list in South Lake, Mount 706 00:35:47,460 --> 00:35:49,440 Rock. I mean, these are different types of 707 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,800 cities and yet we do have some close ones here, which is Fr 708 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,000 isco and McKinney and Plano, but I would 709 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,079 like to look at what Louisville is doing and or Flower 710 00:35:59,079 --> 00:36:01,519 Mountain because they're next door and they 711 00:36:01,519 --> 00:36:04,980 do compete with us for business purposes in homesteads and 712 00:36:04,980 --> 00:36:07,119 developments. And those cities, 713 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,619 we did look and they're not included on this list, but we 714 00:36:11,619 --> 00:36:15,280 did look at those for ideas on how to write 715 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,940 the code. They're just not listed. So we have taken some of 716 00:36:18,940 --> 00:36:21,599 their, the way they've organized the code 717 00:36:21,599 --> 00:36:25,170 and the way they're implementing the code for Flower 718 00:36:25,170 --> 00:36:27,760 Mountain. There was another couple of 719 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,829 more cities that we didn't put on the official list, but 720 00:36:31,829 --> 00:36:35,119 they did inform the decision. Can I ask them 721 00:36:35,119 --> 00:36:38,039 that we look at those under the same criteria to see where 722 00:36:38,039 --> 00:36:40,320 they are in comparison to us? It'd be 723 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,949 because they're in South of us and quite frankly a lot of 724 00:36:42,949 --> 00:36:46,000 our business issues and development issues 725 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,460 are competitive with those to the South of us. Okay. I mean 726 00:36:49,460 --> 00:36:51,679 , we can add a couple more. I think 727 00:36:51,679 --> 00:36:54,000 they would be very helpful and they may be behind us, which 728 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,760 is all right. I mean, we need to move on, 729 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,269 but I just like to have a benchmark against what we're 730 00:36:58,269 --> 00:37:00,719 competing with in our growth development 731 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:08,320 area, which is those two to the South of us. Okay. Okay. 732 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,880 Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. 733 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,590 Good evening. Heywood Morgan, Urban Forester Development 734 00:37:20,590 --> 00:37:22,079 Services 735 00:37:22,639 --> 00:37:26,159 Department. I'll be going over specifically what we're 736 00:37:26,159 --> 00:37:28,159 looking at as far as recommendations 737 00:37:28,159 --> 00:37:34,679 for changes to the current tree code. So, okay. So one of 738 00:37:34,679 --> 00:37:38,320 the things that Shandra mentioned is that, 739 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,159 you know, we have the most tree categories out of the 740 00:37:41,159 --> 00:37:43,440 benchmark cities that we looked at. So what 741 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,460 we're looking at is actually reducing that number from 742 00:37:47,460 --> 00:37:50,719 seven to three to include heritage trees, 743 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,010 protected trees, and just general canopy trees. The 744 00:37:54,010 --> 00:37:56,480 heritage trees and protected trees will be 745 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,119 trees above a certain diameter, inch, and size. The 746 00:38:01,119 --> 00:38:04,639 heritage trees will also be a specific listing 747 00:38:04,639 --> 00:38:08,530 of trees. Some of those characteristics of the cross tim 748 00:38:08,530 --> 00:38:11,679 bers, your oaks, your better species of 749 00:38:11,679 --> 00:38:15,429 trees, your high quality trees. Your protected trees will 750 00:38:15,429 --> 00:38:18,320 have that size requirement, but they'll be 751 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,840 all the other trees that are not on that list. And canopy 752 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,800 is just the general tree population on the 753 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:30,050 specific site. The next thing we're looking at is allowing 754 00:38:30,050 --> 00:38:32,800 exempt trees to be removed without 755 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,050 penalty. And what we looked at when we were looking at 756 00:38:36,050 --> 00:38:38,719 exempt trees are those trees that are right now 757 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,289 categorized in our code as secondary trees. Your mesquite, 758 00:38:42,289 --> 00:38:44,320 which technically by definition, 759 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,760 in Denton does not grow to be a tree. It's a rather large 760 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,199 shrub. Definition of a tree, single stem 761 00:38:51,199 --> 00:38:54,739 woody plant, at least 15 feet in height. If you've seen mes 762 00:38:54,739 --> 00:38:57,280 quite around here, it's nowhere close to 763 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,429 really meeting that definition. If you go further south in 764 00:39:00,429 --> 00:39:02,159 the state, you'll have mesquite that'll 765 00:39:02,159 --> 00:39:06,679 grow to a decent size tree, but not here in Denton. We're 766 00:39:06,679 --> 00:39:09,039 also looking at the locust, 767 00:39:09,039 --> 00:39:12,699 bowdark, trees that have negative characteristics, trees 768 00:39:12,699 --> 00:39:15,039 that you really wouldn't want to have in 769 00:39:15,039 --> 00:39:18,150 your backyard. The ones with the big thorns, the bowdark 770 00:39:18,150 --> 00:39:20,480 with the large fruit. So we'll have a list 771 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,769 of trees that are less desirable for the landscape that we 772 00:39:24,769 --> 00:39:27,679 really wouldn't want to have included, 773 00:39:27,679 --> 00:39:31,639 you know, in areas of the city that we're developing to be 774 00:39:31,639 --> 00:39:33,840 removed without having penalty 775 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:39,469 against developers. Yes. Commissioner Beck. Thank you, 776 00:39:39,469 --> 00:39:41,679 Chair. So it sounds like we're pretty much 777 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,579 just considering its appearance value. Is that what I'm 778 00:39:45,579 --> 00:39:48,800 hearing? Well, it's appearance, but also the 779 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,489 interaction with people. I mean, I don't know if you've, if 780 00:39:51,489 --> 00:39:53,760 you had much experience around locust 781 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,190 trees, the common locusts that have the thorns or the bowd 782 00:39:57,190 --> 00:40:00,480 ark, things that, you know, if you left them 783 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,239 in the landscape, would be considered a nuisance and in 784 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:08,639 some case a hazard to pedestrians. You know, 785 00:40:08,639 --> 00:40:12,190 the trees, like the locusts in particular, you know, has 786 00:40:12,190 --> 00:40:15,039 the thorns. You wouldn't want your kids 787 00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:17,880 climbing those trees because, you know, those, I've been 788 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,559 stuck by them. They're pretty, you know. 789 00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:24,800 The only thing I was thinking of was, 790 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,250 has any consideration, any value been given to the root 791 00:40:31,250 --> 00:40:33,440 systems and stability it gives to the 792 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,380 soil or anything like that? Do they have any value in that 793 00:40:36,380 --> 00:40:38,079 regard? Of course. Yeah. I mean, 794 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,530 these trees, they have, you know, they provide us with 795 00:40:41,530 --> 00:40:45,039 benefits, soil stability. They provide 796 00:40:45,039 --> 00:40:47,920 benefits for cleaning the air. But when, you know, I'm 797 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,119 looking at the urban forest as a whole, 798 00:40:51,119 --> 00:40:54,960 and, you know, my background is specifically urban forestry 799 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,519 . So I look at the overall population of 800 00:40:57,519 --> 00:41:01,599 trees within a city. And so I'm looking at this, you know, 801 00:41:01,599 --> 00:41:03,760 long term, how are these trees going 802 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,190 to perform in the landscape? How are they going to interact 803 00:41:06,190 --> 00:41:08,239 with people? Is this going to create, 804 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:11,320 you know, an attractive nuisance for kids? You know, things 805 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,480 along that line. So, you know, they 806 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,170 provide those benefits, but is it a tree that we would go 807 00:41:17,170 --> 00:41:19,119 and plant in our backyard? Is it a tree 808 00:41:19,119 --> 00:41:21,250 that we would approve a developer to plant in a new 809 00:41:21,250 --> 00:41:23,760 development? We wouldn't permit those trees. So 810 00:41:24,559 --> 00:41:28,559 why should we have those trees preserved or have those 811 00:41:28,559 --> 00:41:31,360 required to be preserved if we're not even 812 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,969 allowing those to be planted as a part of the new landscape 813 00:41:34,969 --> 00:41:37,280 ? So that's kind of the thinking and the 814 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,840 rationale with having that, you know, specific list of 815 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,960 exempt trees from tree protection. 816 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,579 So the next thing we looked at is changing the mitigation 817 00:41:51,579 --> 00:41:54,800 ratios. Right now, our mitigation 818 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:59,179 ratios and mitigation, and Sandra touched on it a bit 819 00:41:59,179 --> 00:42:02,400 earlier, mitigation is required when the 820 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,989 developer cannot meet the minimum preservation requirements 821 00:42:06,989 --> 00:42:09,599 . So our code allows for the developer 822 00:42:09,599 --> 00:42:14,670 to remove this, say if the developer has to preserve, and 823 00:42:14,670 --> 00:42:17,360 right now it's in diameter, it's 824 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,820 the developer has to preserve a thousand inches of trees 825 00:42:20,820 --> 00:42:22,960 and for some reason they can't meet that 826 00:42:23,679 --> 00:42:27,869 requirement. The code allows for half of those trees to be 827 00:42:27,869 --> 00:42:30,320 removed and mitigated either through 828 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,449 replanting on site or payment into the city's tree fund. 829 00:42:34,449 --> 00:42:37,119 The mitigation ratio comes into play 830 00:42:38,159 --> 00:42:41,679 and currently our mitigation ratio goes from basically 831 00:42:41,679 --> 00:42:44,480 nothing to a one to a two ratio 832 00:42:45,199 --> 00:42:49,170 depending on the size of the property, the types of trees. 833 00:42:49,170 --> 00:42:52,000 So the mitigation ratio is basically a 834 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:57,340 multiplying factor to mitigate those trees that, you know, 835 00:42:57,340 --> 00:42:59,519 were removed that should have been 836 00:42:59,519 --> 00:43:02,960 preserved and that's where mitigation comes into play. So 837 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,760 we're looking at increasing that ratio 838 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,119 from right now it's a maximum of one to two to a one to 839 00:43:09,119 --> 00:43:12,079 four ratio and, you know, again we're looking at, 840 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,980 you know, we have that list of exempt trees so we're giving 841 00:43:16,980 --> 00:43:18,800 a little bit there but we're really 842 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,400 trying to encourage developers to preserve the trees that 843 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,559 are desirable in the landscape and 844 00:43:24,559 --> 00:43:27,440 that's why we're looking at increasing that ratio from, 845 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,599 like I said, right now a maximum of one to 846 00:43:29,599 --> 00:43:33,380 two to one to four. Yes? Commissioner Beck. Thank you, 847 00:43:33,380 --> 00:43:37,599 Chair. The trees that do replace, that get 848 00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:39,599 mitigated, that have to come in and replace them, are they 849 00:43:39,599 --> 00:43:43,440 going to be the same diameter or is that 850 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,710 factored in? Do we lose a little bit in diameter if we're 851 00:43:45,710 --> 00:43:48,239 replacing trees? Well currently under the 852 00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,760 code once you figure out the diameter inches that you have 853 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,320 to replace, you have to replace the same 854 00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,559 equivalent diameter. So if you cut down a 10-inch tree you 855 00:43:57,559 --> 00:43:59,440 don't have to replace a 10-inch tree but 856 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,670 you may have to replace that 10-inch tree with five two- 857 00:44:02,670 --> 00:44:04,880 inch trees. So as long as the diameter 858 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,199 inches add up to that mitigation amount you meet the 859 00:44:08,199 --> 00:44:10,800 requirement. You can plant, you know, the 860 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,750 minimum size is two inch but you can plant up as much as 861 00:44:13,750 --> 00:44:15,920 your your pocketbook or the developer's 862 00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:18,880 pocketbook will allow them to. The larger the tree, you 863 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,440 know, once you really get past probably a 864 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,400 four inch in diameter it gets really, you know, a lot more 865 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,559 costly to get, you know, those larger 866 00:44:26,559 --> 00:44:31,630 trees in. But generally developers will plant, you know, at 867 00:44:31,630 --> 00:44:34,400 least a two inch. They may go, you know, 868 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,920 three inch or they get into the larger sizes if they are, 869 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,400 you know, restricted with space on the 870 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,360 site and so they'll plant in larger diameter trees to meet 871 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,280 that requirement. And so, Heywood, so when 872 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,389 we're changing the mitigation ratio from one, you gave a 873 00:44:50,389 --> 00:44:52,960 one-to-one example there. Now we're changing 874 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,820 it to one to four so the developer would then be required 875 00:44:55,820 --> 00:44:59,119 to plant 22-inch trees? Yeah. If they can 876 00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:01,449 fit them all in there? I mean, how, where are they, where 877 00:45:01,449 --> 00:45:03,920 are they going to put all those trees? Do they 878 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,300 plant them on that property that they're developing? Yes, 879 00:45:07,300 --> 00:45:10,000 it's either replanting on the site or 880 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,389 payment into the tree fund under the current, under the 881 00:45:12,389 --> 00:45:15,360 current code. We are considering, 882 00:45:16,159 --> 00:45:18,159 you know, with the code and it's not really covered in this 883 00:45:18,159 --> 00:45:19,840 because this is mainly covered, 884 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,309 the main issues, but we are considering maybe giving an 885 00:45:23,309 --> 00:45:25,599 option for possibly off-site mitigation 886 00:45:25,599 --> 00:45:28,599 or adjacent to the site to give, you know, more 887 00:45:28,599 --> 00:45:31,519 possibilities for replanting. Because, you know, 888 00:45:31,519 --> 00:45:35,519 ultimately I'd rather see the developer either A, preserve 889 00:45:35,519 --> 00:45:37,920 the trees on site, meet the code, 890 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:40,550 you know, don't worry about payment into the tree fund or 891 00:45:40,550 --> 00:45:43,199 replanting, or B, if they have to mitigate 892 00:45:43,199 --> 00:45:46,900 to replant on site, I'd much rather receive trees in the 893 00:45:46,900 --> 00:45:49,280 ground versus a check in the bank. Yeah. 894 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,710 Because, you know, they're there, the work is done, and the 895 00:45:51,710 --> 00:45:53,440 trees are growing. Yeah, and I would agree 896 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,570 with that. I'm just, I was curious where they would put all 897 00:45:56,570 --> 00:45:59,039 those, those 22-inch trees on that site, 898 00:45:59,039 --> 00:46:01,170 but it sounds like you, you've thought of this and you're 899 00:46:01,170 --> 00:46:02,719 trying to think of other alternatives. If 900 00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,139 they can't meet that, they will have other options. Right, 901 00:46:05,139 --> 00:46:07,679 right. Cool, thank you. Yep, you're welcome. 902 00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:13,210 So next on our list, we have the base preservation minimum 903 00:46:13,210 --> 00:46:16,960 for tree canopy. We're looking at, 904 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:21,789 instead of going by diameter inches and going to canopy 905 00:46:21,789 --> 00:46:25,280 cover, the reason behind, you know, 906 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:30,519 this conversion, well, A, our landscape code is already 907 00:46:30,519 --> 00:46:34,159 currently in canopy cover. So it would 908 00:46:34,159 --> 00:46:39,010 actually make the preservation portion of the code parallel 909 00:46:39,010 --> 00:46:41,760 to what's already done and established 910 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,269 with the landscape tree canopy code. And the landscape tree 911 00:46:45,269 --> 00:46:46,880 canopy is, are new trees that 912 00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,349 are required to be planted by the developer. It could be 913 00:46:49,349 --> 00:46:51,440 trees in the parking lot, along the street, 914 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,599 or just in the landscape in general. So why go to canopy 915 00:46:54,599 --> 00:46:58,000 cover for preservation? Well, when we look at, 916 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,139 and I'm looking, you know, industry-wide urban forestry as 917 00:47:02,139 --> 00:47:04,239 a whole, the benefits that we derive 918 00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:08,650 from trees are all related back to the canopy cover. When 919 00:47:08,650 --> 00:47:11,199 you look at studies that are done on 920 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:16,380 the benefits of trees, it's all based on the percentage of 921 00:47:16,380 --> 00:47:20,000 canopy you have. So to be 922 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,159 consistent with that and also to align with, you know, 923 00:47:23,159 --> 00:47:26,320 basically industry standards, we're recommending 924 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,800 going to canopy cover as opposed to diameter inches. For 925 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,920 example, you could have a 30-inch 926 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:38,320 diameter tree, which is a nice large tree, and it basically 927 00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,519 , under the current codes, equates to, 928 00:47:41,519 --> 00:47:44,340 you know, three 10-inch trees. Well, those three 10-inch 929 00:47:44,340 --> 00:47:47,199 trees could quite possibly and likely have 930 00:47:47,199 --> 00:47:52,269 larger canopy cover than the one 30-inch tree. So when 931 00:47:52,269 --> 00:47:56,000 looking at the benefits that trees provide, 932 00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,239 and industry standards, we're looking to go to canopy cover 933 00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,239 as opposed to diameter inches. 934 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,260 Okay, so this next map, and this is what we're currently 935 00:48:07,260 --> 00:48:10,480 looking at, is basing the preservation 936 00:48:11,519 --> 00:48:15,650 on the percentage of tree cover on the site pre-development 937 00:48:15,650 --> 00:48:20,079 . Currently, the amount that you 938 00:48:20,079 --> 00:48:23,940 preserve is based on a combination of things, one being the 939 00:48:23,940 --> 00:48:26,559 size of the property. It doesn't take 940 00:48:26,559 --> 00:48:29,570 into account, well, how many trees are on this site to 941 00:48:29,570 --> 00:48:31,760 start with. So what we're looking at 942 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:37,610 is, you know, here your existing tree canopy percentage. So 943 00:48:37,610 --> 00:48:40,159 on a site that has a lower 944 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,630 existing canopy percentage, your preservation percentage 945 00:48:44,630 --> 00:48:47,519 will actually be higher, because what 946 00:48:47,519 --> 00:48:50,070 we're looking at, you know, okay, you may have this 10-acre 947 00:48:50,070 --> 00:48:52,480 site and it's only 20% canopy. Well, 948 00:48:53,519 --> 00:48:57,309 to kind of even things out with the sites that are more 949 00:48:57,309 --> 00:49:00,079 heavily canopied, we're looking at having 950 00:49:00,079 --> 00:49:03,980 that percentage higher. It's really an inverse relation. So 951 00:49:03,980 --> 00:49:06,239 the lower your canopy cover existing, 952 00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,719 the higher your percentage of preservation. The higher 953 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,360 canopy existing, the lower percentage of 954 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,739 preservation. And like I say, it's all based on the 955 00:49:17,739 --> 00:49:22,000 existing canopy on the site. The map that we have 956 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:27,329 here is actually an existing site that our GIS looked at 957 00:49:27,329 --> 00:49:30,960 and, you know, calculated the canopy 958 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,840 cover on this site. And this is a site right down on McKin 959 00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,480 ney. McKinney is actually the majestic 960 00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:39,900 apartment site. You've probably seen this configuration, 961 00:49:39,900 --> 00:49:42,239 but this is what their existing 962 00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:47,280 canopy looks like. So with this example, the total acreage 963 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,239 of the site is 11.39 acres. 964 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:55,179 The percentage of canopy is 49.7% canopy. So they're 965 00:49:55,179 --> 00:49:58,079 falling into the range of 50% canopy cover. 966 00:49:59,039 --> 00:50:03,079 The area with the red outline represents canopy. The area 967 00:50:03,079 --> 00:50:06,400 with the green outline represents canopy. 968 00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:10,440 The red are trees that they could remove under the code and 969 00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,880 develop. The green is areas that 970 00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:16,170 would have to be preserved. This is only for example 971 00:50:16,170 --> 00:50:19,039 purposes, just an illustration to show 972 00:50:19,039 --> 00:50:22,960 what that looks like on an exact, on a, on a, an actual 973 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,400 site. The configuration of where the trees 974 00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,099 are preserved is totally up to the developer. As long as 975 00:50:30,099 --> 00:50:33,199 you reach out to, you meet that 50% 976 00:50:33,199 --> 00:50:40,800 preservation of the existing canopy. Question to Rosalyn. 977 00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:42,719 Thank you. I hope I can word this 978 00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:46,760 in an appropriate way. If they are replacing a tree that 979 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,360 they're taking down for mitigation, 980 00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,829 that's still going to be measured by diameter inches or 981 00:50:51,829 --> 00:50:54,079 that be canopy as well? It will, 982 00:50:54,079 --> 00:50:59,309 it will be canopy based on the, the, the mature canopy size 983 00:50:59,309 --> 00:51:01,599 of a large, small, and medium-sized 984 00:51:01,599 --> 00:51:04,519 tree which is already established within the landscape 985 00:51:04,519 --> 00:51:07,920 portion of the code. There's a formula 986 00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,610 that I've been working on to, to convert that to make, you 987 00:51:10,610 --> 00:51:13,119 know, to make it accurate. And, 988 00:51:13,119 --> 00:51:16,340 and what my goal is, is to basically have it, have a 989 00:51:16,340 --> 00:51:18,960 spreadsheet, an Excel spreadsheet where 990 00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,840 the developer can plug in his information and it spits out 991 00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,320 what he has to preserve to make it, 992 00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:26,530 you know, easier on the calculation. Right now, you know, 993 00:51:26,530 --> 00:51:28,000 everyone is doing their calculations 994 00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,519 manually. I have to check over manually. For me, it makes 995 00:51:31,519 --> 00:51:34,000 sense to do it in an Excel spreadsheet. 996 00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,699 My site is this big. My canopy cover is this much. How much 997 00:51:37,699 --> 00:51:39,280 do I have to preserve? 998 00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,780 So the idea would be to know potentially what that tree 999 00:51:43,780 --> 00:51:46,559 canopy would be sometime in the future? 1000 00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:50,599 Correct. And plant that. Secondly, and, and only somewhat 1001 00:51:50,599 --> 00:51:53,440 related, is this putting a preference 1002 00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:57,429 on the trees that would be grown in our city based on I 1003 00:51:57,429 --> 00:52:00,320 mean the cheapest tree that has the most 1004 00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:05,880 canopy? Is it, is it incorrectly putting a, a premium, like 1005 00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:08,159 maybe not on a pine tree, 1006 00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:12,260 but on a pecan tree? Does that make sense? Yeah, I 1007 00:52:12,260 --> 00:52:14,639 understand what you're saying. And, 1008 00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:18,579 and actually when you go on price trees in a nursery, you 1009 00:52:18,579 --> 00:52:21,039 know, it's based on either the, 1010 00:52:21,039 --> 00:52:23,730 if it's a container tree, it's, you know, by the gallon 1011 00:52:23,730 --> 00:52:25,599 size of the containers grown in, 1012 00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:28,679 or by the caliper inches, the diameter of that actual tree. 1013 00:52:28,679 --> 00:52:31,599 And what our code currently does is, 1014 00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:36,139 you know, it basically categorizes those as large, medium, 1015 00:52:36,139 --> 00:52:38,960 and small, regardless of, you know, 1016 00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:43,420 what species and desirability they are. But, you know, you 1017 00:52:43,420 --> 00:52:45,679 can have an oak tree, for example, 1018 00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:48,510 is in the large category, the same as a pecan would be in 1019 00:52:48,510 --> 00:52:49,760 the large category. 1020 00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,349 One more question, I apologize. This is out of ignorance. 1021 00:52:54,349 --> 00:52:57,119 Are there such things as really big, 1022 00:52:57,119 --> 00:52:58,639 cheap, ugly trees? 1023 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:04,590 Well, big, cheap, ugly. Well, there's a difference 1024 00:53:04,590 --> 00:53:10,159 aesthetics, you know, for tree. And if it's just a 1025 00:53:10,159 --> 00:53:13,750 matter of what a satellite image says on, on how much it's 1026 00:53:13,750 --> 00:53:16,159 covering, then if I'm a developer, 1027 00:53:16,159 --> 00:53:19,730 I'm going to look for the cheapest. Well, it's still what 1028 00:53:19,730 --> 00:53:21,679 we would approve to be replaced is 1029 00:53:21,679 --> 00:53:25,750 still subject to our approved tree list. So you may find 1030 00:53:25,750 --> 00:53:28,480 some trees that are less desirable, say 1031 00:53:29,039 --> 00:53:31,449 cottonwood. There's, there's actually a variety of cotton 1032 00:53:31,449 --> 00:53:34,639 less cottonwood. But it's still a fast 1033 00:53:34,639 --> 00:53:37,599 growing tree. It's still a tree that, you know, I wouldn't 1034 00:53:37,599 --> 00:53:39,440 recommend for the long term for the 1035 00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:44,699 landscape. But that would actually be covered in our 1036 00:53:44,699 --> 00:53:48,079 recommended or require, you know, our approved 1037 00:53:48,079 --> 00:53:51,599 tree list. Thank you. Commissioner Back. Thank you, Chair. 1038 00:53:51,599 --> 00:53:53,599 That kind of raised a question for me, 1039 00:53:53,599 --> 00:53:56,489 then. Are we going to try and maintain then what's native 1040 00:53:56,489 --> 00:53:58,159 to this area? In other words, 1041 00:53:58,159 --> 00:54:00,719 we're not going to lose so many of a certain type of tree 1042 00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:01,840 that we really want 1043 00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:07,309 to do the developer. Are we going to try and maintain the 1044 00:54:07,309 --> 00:54:09,519 percentage of oaks and ash and 1045 00:54:10,079 --> 00:54:13,570 other trees native to this area? Or is that even a 1046 00:54:13,570 --> 00:54:17,440 consideration in the plan? Well, what I recommend 1047 00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:21,530 is a planting of native and adopted trees. One of the 1048 00:54:21,530 --> 00:54:24,880 things when you look at managing the population 1049 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:30,610 of trees is you want to have a good distribution of species 1050 00:54:30,610 --> 00:54:34,480 types, but also age types of trees. 1051 00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:37,699 There are trees that will grow here that are not 1052 00:54:37,699 --> 00:54:41,199 necessarily native here, but there's nothing wrong 1053 00:54:41,199 --> 00:54:47,039 with the tree. It's, you know, perfectly good tree. So, 1054 00:54:50,079 --> 00:54:52,110 some of those trees are on the list, but they're not the 1055 00:54:52,110 --> 00:54:54,800 only trees on the list. Because if we 1056 00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,519 did that, we'd end up with, you know, a lot of oak trees. 1057 00:54:58,519 --> 00:55:01,199 And when you get a high population of one 1058 00:55:01,199 --> 00:55:05,199 species of tree, history has shown us with the American elm 1059 00:55:05,199 --> 00:55:08,559 and Dutch elm disease, you had, 1060 00:55:08,559 --> 00:55:12,940 you know, cities that had trees, street, tree-lined streets 1061 00:55:12,940 --> 00:55:14,719 that were American elms, 1062 00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:18,820 beautiful streets. The bug came and what happened, you end 1063 00:55:18,820 --> 00:55:20,960 up clear cutting entire neighborhoods. 1064 00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,449 Some cities are still recovering from Dutch elm disease 1065 00:55:24,449 --> 00:55:26,559 that hit in the 1960s and 70s. 1066 00:55:27,599 --> 00:55:30,969 Currently, we're dealing with emerald ash borer in parts of 1067 00:55:30,969 --> 00:55:34,719 the country, which ash is one of the 1068 00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:38,150 trees that actually removed from the recommended list. 1069 00:55:38,150 --> 00:55:41,360 Because currently, the emerald ash borer is 1070 00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:45,659 only about 300 miles away from Denton, Texas, in Louisiana 1071 00:55:45,659 --> 00:55:48,320 and Arkansas. It's not a matter of if 1072 00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:52,079 it's get here, it's more so when it gets here. With the 1073 00:55:52,079 --> 00:55:54,719 highway system, a lot of times it travels 1074 00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:58,150 with firewood or on vehicles even, and you know, it'll be 1075 00:55:58,150 --> 00:56:02,159 here sooner or later. Okay, thanks. Yeah. 1076 00:56:03,199 --> 00:56:06,159 And Heywood, I have some feedback. I don't know, I can't 1077 00:56:06,159 --> 00:56:07,920 speak for the rest of the commission, but 1078 00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:10,920 this, I understand the reasoning. You know, if you have 1079 00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:14,239 zero to 20% tree canopy, you've got a lot of 1080 00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:17,969 room to work with. So let's preserve 70% of those trees. I 1081 00:56:17,969 --> 00:56:20,320 feel really uneasy with that last number, 1082 00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:24,320 80 to 100%, only preserving 30% of the trees. I would like 1083 00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,960 to see that number increased. I know 1084 00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:30,550 it could hinder development in that area, but it could also 1085 00:56:30,550 --> 00:56:33,199 create a really creative development 1086 00:56:33,199 --> 00:56:35,690 idea because it's, it's, we're really preserving a lot of 1087 00:56:35,690 --> 00:56:38,800 our trees. If our focus is, is to preserve 1088 00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:40,719 as much of the trees as possible, then I would think we 1089 00:56:40,719 --> 00:56:42,320 would put a higher emphasis on the lots 1090 00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,280 that are already heavily forested and make sure that we're 1091 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,119 really preserving as many of those trees 1092 00:56:47,119 --> 00:56:50,710 as possible. So I would like for staff to, to work with 1093 00:56:50,710 --> 00:56:53,599 that, that 30% and see how we can increase 1094 00:56:53,599 --> 00:56:56,480 that, maybe compare that to what other cities are doing and 1095 00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:58,400 maybe show us some examples of what that 1096 00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:03,039 might look like 30% versus 35 versus 40%. Yeah, I actually, 1097 00:57:03,039 --> 00:57:06,239 yeah, our GIS guy, when I gave him these 1098 00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:09,519 percentages, he actually threw it all into an Excel 1099 00:57:09,519 --> 00:57:12,559 spreadsheet to show, you know, how much would be 1100 00:57:12,559 --> 00:57:16,119 preserved of the existing trees throughout these 1101 00:57:16,119 --> 00:57:20,000 distributions. And amazingly, the percentage or 1102 00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:24,280 the amount is fairly even across it. It kind of zigzags 1103 00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,280 like a, like a saw. You know, if you, you 1104 00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,820 know, look at a zigzag motion, that's kind of how the 1105 00:57:29,820 --> 00:57:32,159 distribution looks. But that's something, you 1106 00:57:32,159 --> 00:57:36,260 know, we can, you know, consider. Like as Chandra mentioned 1107 00:57:36,260 --> 00:57:38,960 , this is just kind of our first, you know, 1108 00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,070 look at and that's, you know, one of the reasons we're here 1109 00:57:41,070 --> 00:57:43,440 to get feedback and to look at, you 1110 00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,869 know, the feasibility of making adjustments or even looking 1111 00:57:46,869 --> 00:57:49,760 at this as a whole. Thank you. 1112 00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,809 Commissioner Hudson. So I'm not an outside guy at all. Like 1113 00:57:54,809 --> 00:57:56,559 if I'm outside, I'm walking to my car. 1114 00:57:56,559 --> 00:58:01,630 But I have a question. So how transferable are trees? And I 1115 00:58:01,630 --> 00:58:04,159 ask that for part B of the question, 1116 00:58:04,159 --> 00:58:07,130 and that is, is there a, and I'm going to use a word that 1117 00:58:07,130 --> 00:58:09,840 probably doesn't exist. Is there like a 1118 00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:13,760 tree craigslist for, so for example, we have buckies that's 1119 00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,559 going in and it's 40 acres or so, 1120 00:58:16,559 --> 00:58:20,050 and it's somewhat forested. And so they're going to cut 1121 00:58:20,050 --> 00:58:22,719 those trees down. Are those trees able to 1122 00:58:22,719 --> 00:58:27,130 be harvested in a network of people talking and developers 1123 00:58:27,130 --> 00:58:29,920 talking and saying almost like you have 1124 00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:33,460 landfill dirt that, hey, we'll take it if you have it type 1125 00:58:33,460 --> 00:58:35,360 thing? I mean, I don't know how that works. 1126 00:58:35,360 --> 00:58:39,099 And if they would survive the transfer, if it's worth it, 1127 00:58:39,099 --> 00:58:41,679 it may not be worth it. I'm just, 1128 00:58:41,679 --> 00:58:47,719 I'm learning. Trees can be transplanted. Even under the 1129 00:58:47,719 --> 00:58:50,480 current code, one of the methods of 1130 00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,380 preserving trees will allow for trees to be relocated on 1131 00:58:53,380 --> 00:58:56,559 that existing site. The biggest 1132 00:58:56,559 --> 00:59:00,079 limiting factor on that, and there are companies that'll 1133 00:59:00,079 --> 00:59:03,519 move trees 20, 30 inches in diameter, 1134 00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:06,789 but it's really the biggest limiting factor is cost and 1135 00:59:06,789 --> 00:59:09,280 where you're going to move that tree to. 1136 00:59:10,159 --> 00:59:14,369 Because the larger you get in size, you really kind of 1137 00:59:14,369 --> 00:59:16,719 limit your distance where you can actually 1138 00:59:16,719 --> 00:59:21,239 move that tree to. But for trees that are, I would say, in 1139 00:59:21,239 --> 00:59:23,840 that eight inches in diameter, 1140 00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:29,780 10 inches range, they're relatively easy to transplant. But 1141 00:59:29,780 --> 00:59:34,079 I haven't heard of the correct 1142 00:59:34,079 --> 00:59:38,320 list for trees per se. Well, I mean, but I think maybe if I 1143 00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,079 incentivize, because obviously, 1144 00:59:40,079 --> 00:59:43,869 contractors talk and developers talk. And so there may be a 1145 00:59:43,869 --> 00:59:46,639 way to, I've got to get rid of these, 1146 00:59:46,719 --> 00:59:50,210 and I need these, and they work together and as a city 1147 00:59:50,210 --> 00:59:54,000 somehow incentivize them to build that 1148 00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,489 communication because it's already successful. I mean, 1149 00:59:57,489 --> 00:59:59,840 because otherwise you have a tree that may 1150 00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:02,239 or may not make it, may or may not have issues that's 1151 01:00:02,239 --> 01:00:04,079 planted that we got to go back and double 1152 01:00:04,079 --> 01:00:07,019 check on, that sort of thing. I know that risk never goes 1153 01:00:07,019 --> 01:00:09,360 away, but I'm just saying if we have 1154 01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,460 something that's already here, that there's a way that we 1155 01:00:12,460 --> 01:00:14,800 can incentivize developers to talk and have 1156 01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:20,760 those conversations and see what it produces or see if 1157 01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:24,719 there's a way to build a community, if you will. 1158 01:00:24,719 --> 01:00:26,880 So just a thought. Okay. 1159 01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:28,880 Yeah. 1160 01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:33,440 Within the plan, is there regulations or stipulations of 1161 01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:35,280 how we protect the current trees on the 1162 01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:38,800 property from soil compaction because of construction? I 1163 01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:42,239 know we do sometimes put barriers around 1164 01:00:42,239 --> 01:00:45,940 fences, but I'm wondering if it's maintained properly in 1165 01:00:45,940 --> 01:00:47,920 the sense of how far out they have 1166 01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,170 to go to protect that drip line and that canopy because I 1167 01:00:51,170 --> 01:00:52,960 've seen some sites where we have some 1168 01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:56,980 beautiful trees and yet they're only protected minimally. 1169 01:00:56,980 --> 01:00:59,440 And then I know over time, bulldozers 1170 01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,380 and whatnot, that soil gets compacted and those trees end 1171 01:01:02,380 --> 01:01:04,880 up losing limbs and dying because of that. 1172 01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:06,800 Is there going to be something within the plan that says, 1173 01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:08,079 okay, if we're going to preserve these 1174 01:01:08,079 --> 01:01:11,440 trees, you must maintain a certain boundary, a protection 1175 01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:14,480 boundary? Yes. Currently, our code 1176 01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:18,099 requires and what I require is basically tree protection 1177 01:01:18,099 --> 01:01:20,239 out to the drip line of the tree 1178 01:01:20,239 --> 01:01:23,679 as far out as the branches go. And, you know, typically 1179 01:01:23,679 --> 01:01:25,519 that's the orange construction fence 1180 01:01:25,519 --> 01:01:28,630 metal T-pose, something that's visible so that, you know, 1181 01:01:28,630 --> 01:01:30,480 the guy that's on the bulldozer doing 1182 01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,559 his work, you know, it's easily, you know, visible for him 1183 01:01:33,559 --> 01:01:37,599 to see. Additionally, what I'm looking at 1184 01:01:37,599 --> 01:01:40,769 aligning with to maybe make adjustments to that is looking 1185 01:01:40,769 --> 01:01:42,960 at, you know, best management industry 1186 01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:46,739 standards. There's standards for tree protection that, you 1187 01:01:46,739 --> 01:01:49,119 know, are basically industry standards 1188 01:01:49,119 --> 01:01:52,659 nationwide. And so, you know, I'll compare what we 1189 01:01:52,659 --> 01:01:55,280 currently do to those best management 1190 01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,110 practice and make adjustments where, you know, I feel 1191 01:01:58,110 --> 01:02:01,840 necessary. And follow up, who follows up and 1192 01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:05,409 who monitors that? That would be I. So you're monitoring 1193 01:02:05,409 --> 01:02:07,280 all the sites under current... 1194 01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:11,659 when I can get out of the office from, you know, doing 1195 01:02:11,659 --> 01:02:14,159 reviews and tree code work. 1196 01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,070 I just want to decide it because I'm seeing where I don't 1197 01:02:17,070 --> 01:02:18,559 think they're following that 1198 01:02:18,559 --> 01:02:22,159 drip line situation. And those trees are going to... they 1199 01:02:22,159 --> 01:02:24,960 're going to see the worst of it in 1200 01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:29,340 five to six years, you know that. So we need to, I guess, 1201 01:02:29,340 --> 01:02:31,039 find a way to bolster that up if we're 1202 01:02:31,039 --> 01:02:33,440 going to look to preserve as much as we can. Right, yeah. 1203 01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:34,880 As much as I can get out there, 1204 01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:37,280 about there. And, you know, on days like today it makes it 1205 01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:39,360 really easy, but even today I wasn't 1206 01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:43,250 able to get out as much as I would like to. Was that... let 1207 01:02:43,250 --> 01:02:45,360 me follow up again. I mean, obviously 1208 01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:49,210 there's on-site code enforcement. There's city people, 1209 01:02:49,210 --> 01:02:51,599 employees, they look at the ordinances 1210 01:02:51,599 --> 01:02:54,960 and whatnot that are being followed or if they meet code or 1211 01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:58,320 whatever, we can ask them to also be 1212 01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:02,840 part of that process, I would assume. That may be a 1213 01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:06,480 possibility. It just kind of depends on, 1214 01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:08,340 you know, I don't like to commit other people's... I 1215 01:03:08,340 --> 01:03:10,480 understand. ...people, but right now it's... 1216 01:03:11,119 --> 01:03:14,789 So we can write that into our... Yes. ...our codes, you 1217 01:03:14,789 --> 01:03:17,920 know. Yeah. That's what we're here for. 1218 01:03:19,039 --> 01:03:21,780 Yeah, thank you, Chair. I have a few questions. Yes. I'm 1219 01:03:21,780 --> 01:03:23,119 assuming you're basically done with your 1220 01:03:23,119 --> 01:03:26,750 slides. I have one more slide, but... Is it the any 1221 01:03:26,750 --> 01:03:31,360 questions slide or... Not yet. I have a few more 1222 01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:33,570 and then I'll still stand for, you know, any additional 1223 01:03:33,570 --> 01:03:35,280 questions with that slide. So... 1224 01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:39,199 Okay, well then I'll let you finish. Okay, sure. Okay, so 1225 01:03:39,199 --> 01:03:44,159 also what we're looking at is incentivizing 1226 01:03:44,159 --> 01:03:47,570 and encouraging preservation of designated trees. So for 1227 01:03:47,570 --> 01:03:50,239 the trees that fall within that heritage 1228 01:03:50,239 --> 01:03:54,519 tree category, we're looking at giving an incentive to 1229 01:03:54,519 --> 01:03:57,920 protect that tree. And let me back up just one 1230 01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:02,710 step to, you know, the first bullet. Under our current tree 1231 01:04:02,710 --> 01:04:05,199 code, the trees that are saved or 1232 01:04:05,199 --> 01:04:09,260 preserved on the site don't count towards the total canopy 1233 01:04:09,260 --> 01:04:11,440 requirements for the site. 1234 01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:16,559 What we're proposing is allowing the tree canopy to count 1235 01:04:16,559 --> 01:04:19,119 for the total canopy of the site because 1236 01:04:19,119 --> 01:04:22,510 that's really what our measuring is if we're being 1237 01:04:22,510 --> 01:04:25,760 successful, especially when we look at 1238 01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:30,239 establishing a tree canopy goal for the entire city. So, 1239 01:04:30,239 --> 01:04:32,239 you know, currently it's only when they 1240 01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:37,150 preserve beyond the minimum. So under our suggestions, what 1241 01:04:37,150 --> 01:04:38,880 we're recommending is what 1242 01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:42,489 they preserve counts toward their landscape canopy 1243 01:04:42,489 --> 01:04:46,079 requirement. They still will be required to do the 1244 01:04:46,079 --> 01:04:50,059 street trees, parking lot trees, but they also have the 1245 01:04:50,059 --> 01:04:52,960 benefit of these trees counting towards that 1246 01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:57,239 requirement. With that, we're looking at the trees that are 1247 01:04:57,239 --> 01:05:00,159 on that heritage tree list, 1248 01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:03,429 giving them more credit. And those are our larger trees 1249 01:05:03,429 --> 01:05:05,679 because a lot of times, you know, we see 1250 01:05:05,679 --> 01:05:09,420 sites and, you know, they meet the code requirement, but 1251 01:05:09,420 --> 01:05:11,440 there are a lot of big trees. Well, 1252 01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:15,010 under the current code, there is no incentive to preserve 1253 01:05:15,010 --> 01:05:17,360 large trees. It's just preserve it if 1254 01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:21,199 you can. If you can't, you mitigate for it. You pay into 1255 01:05:21,199 --> 01:05:24,480 the tree fund. So what we're looking at 1256 01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:27,889 is incentivizing that and, you know, also on the way to 1257 01:05:27,889 --> 01:05:30,159 encourage, you know, preservation of those 1258 01:05:30,159 --> 01:05:35,889 larger trees on new developments. The last point I have 1259 01:05:35,889 --> 01:05:40,639 here is recommending that we review the tree 1260 01:05:40,639 --> 01:05:44,690 mitigation payment on a two-year cycle. The tree mitigation 1261 01:05:44,690 --> 01:05:49,440 payment, which is currently $125 per 1262 01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:53,329 diameter inch, is supposed to be based on the market value 1263 01:05:53,329 --> 01:05:55,519 of what it would cost to plant a 1264 01:05:55,519 --> 01:05:59,039 two-inch caliper tree and maintain it for three years. Well 1265 01:05:59,039 --> 01:06:01,920 , trees are a commodity. The prices of 1266 01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:05,000 trees fluctuate just like any other commodity. Sometimes it 1267 01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:06,880 goes up, sometimes it go down. So 1268 01:06:08,639 --> 01:06:11,329 what we're recommending is actually reviewing that on a 1269 01:06:11,329 --> 01:06:14,559 regular basis to ensure that our tree 1270 01:06:14,559 --> 01:06:18,269 mitigation payment amount is, you know, aligned with what 1271 01:06:18,269 --> 01:06:20,800 the actual costs are in the marketplace. 1272 01:06:22,079 --> 01:06:26,469 And this is my final slide. I'll stand for any additional 1273 01:06:26,469 --> 01:06:28,719 questions. Commissioner Taylor. 1274 01:06:29,599 --> 01:06:34,449 Thank you, Chair. So I like the cleaning up of the code. I 1275 01:06:34,449 --> 01:06:36,000 think the current version of the tree 1276 01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:40,170 ordinance was modified from another very complex ordinance 1277 01:06:40,170 --> 01:06:43,920 that first introduced all this kind of 1278 01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:48,840 counting and then certain ones were 1.5 and 1.25 and then 1279 01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:51,360 there were six or seven mitigation options 1280 01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:54,949 and every single development always just ended up paying 1281 01:06:54,949 --> 01:06:57,599 into the fund because it was easier than 1282 01:06:57,599 --> 01:07:00,510 trying to figure out the other six options. So the simpl 1283 01:07:00,510 --> 01:07:02,239 ification I think is really good. 1284 01:07:04,639 --> 01:07:07,719 And like you said, we have these, you know, we already have 1285 01:07:07,719 --> 01:07:09,599 these quality definitions and all of 1286 01:07:09,599 --> 01:07:14,090 these other definitions and it equates to a 0.25 difference 1287 01:07:14,090 --> 01:07:17,119 in mitigation. There's no real incentive 1288 01:07:17,119 --> 01:07:20,150 to preserve. So I like the idea of having that incentive to 1289 01:07:20,150 --> 01:07:23,119 preserve especially like over 12 or 1290 01:07:23,119 --> 01:07:26,239 over 18 inch diameter quality species. I think that's a 1291 01:07:26,239 --> 01:07:28,880 really good thing to include. You know, 1292 01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:32,599 I'd rather they keep that 20 inch oak that might be not in 1293 01:07:32,599 --> 01:07:34,960 the optimal position on that acreage 1294 01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:38,800 than that stand of four and six inch oaks, you know, over 1295 01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:41,199 in the corner. You can argue habitat 1296 01:07:41,199 --> 01:07:44,650 quality but I think just for an aesthetic reason I think 1297 01:07:44,650 --> 01:07:47,840 and the history of that 90 or 100 year old 1298 01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:50,940 tree being preserved over those 15 or 20 year old trees 1299 01:07:50,940 --> 01:07:57,280 being preserved. My concerns lie in the math 1300 01:07:58,159 --> 01:08:03,360 in the details of math. Right now the DBH requirements, if 1301 01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:06,000 you cut down an 18 inch oak, 1302 01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:10,320 you can replace it with, you know, six three inch oaks or, 1303 01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:12,079 you know, nine two inch oaks. So you're 1304 01:08:12,079 --> 01:08:15,090 cutting down a 90 year old or 80 year old tree and you're 1305 01:08:15,090 --> 01:08:17,039 replacing it with a bunch of seven or eight 1306 01:08:17,039 --> 01:08:20,689 year old trees perhaps, maybe 10 year old trees. And that 1307 01:08:20,689 --> 01:08:22,880 those are equivalent that always bothered 1308 01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:26,399 me and the fact that it costs if you cut down, you know, 1309 01:08:26,399 --> 01:08:29,439 three six inch trees that has the same value 1310 01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:34,149 as cutting down an 18 inch tree that is 50 years older. I 1311 01:08:34,149 --> 01:08:38,479 think that maybe a surface area instead 1312 01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:43,750 of diameter or maybe the canopy function can can do that. 1313 01:08:43,750 --> 01:08:46,560 So like I said, I want to value those 1314 01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:51,319 larger diameter much older trees more than just by diameter 1315 01:08:51,319 --> 01:08:54,399 , you know, that that 18 inches diameter 1316 01:08:54,399 --> 01:08:58,989 equals 18 inches diameter. I want to understand that 1317 01:08:58,989 --> 01:09:02,000 minimum you showed with the chart of how 1318 01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:06,210 much you could remove. If you if the development can't meet 1319 01:09:06,210 --> 01:09:09,039 that requirement, is there then 1320 01:09:09,039 --> 01:09:13,159 mitigation after that point? Yes, yes. If they can't meet 1321 01:09:13,159 --> 01:09:16,399 the minimum preservation requirement and 1322 01:09:16,399 --> 01:09:18,640 let me find that slide so I can get back to it. 1323 01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:32,829 And this is this is probably good enough just to see it. 1324 01:09:32,829 --> 01:09:34,960 Okay. So in this case, for example, 1325 01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:39,909 they're putting in apartments and they're planning on 1326 01:09:39,909 --> 01:09:43,119 having, you know, most of the area covered in 1327 01:09:43,119 --> 01:09:46,130 construction and parking lot and they're going to have to 1328 01:09:46,130 --> 01:09:47,840 cut into that green area as well, 1329 01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:51,680 then they would have to mitigate the additional area they 1330 01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:54,880 remove. Right, right, up to 50% of 1331 01:09:55,439 --> 01:09:58,930 of the minimum requirement. Okay, so they would have to 1332 01:09:58,930 --> 01:10:01,039 keep 50%. This is the minimum and they 1333 01:10:01,039 --> 01:10:03,420 would have to keep so the minimum minimum is half of the 1334 01:10:03,420 --> 01:10:05,600 minimum. Right, okay. Right, because, you 1335 01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:08,449 know, and some sites, I mean, you know, they get into where 1336 01:10:08,449 --> 01:10:10,159 they they've done what they can and, 1337 01:10:11,119 --> 01:10:13,609 you know, they just they can't meet it. So we have to, you 1338 01:10:13,609 --> 01:10:16,159 know, have some some adjustment there, 1339 01:10:16,159 --> 01:10:19,510 some leeway. So that's kind of the idea of of allowing them 1340 01:10:19,510 --> 01:10:21,680 to kind of dip below the the state 1341 01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:26,779 at minimum. And so then like that that minimum minimum part 1342 01:10:26,779 --> 01:10:29,520 there, they'd have to mitigate 1343 01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:33,750 those. Correct. And that could that mitigation could 1344 01:10:33,750 --> 01:10:35,199 potentially be on-site mitigation or 1345 01:10:35,199 --> 01:10:37,470 otherwise it's something like tree fund, tree trust, 1346 01:10:37,470 --> 01:10:39,359 something like that. Yeah, payment into 1347 01:10:39,359 --> 01:10:44,050 the tree fund or replanting on-site. Okay, and then are we 1348 01:10:44,050 --> 01:10:47,840 going to keep our tree canopy cover 1349 01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:52,770 requirements based on zoning? That's something that we we 1350 01:10:52,770 --> 01:10:56,079 haven't specifically dove into. What 1351 01:10:56,079 --> 01:10:59,229 I would kind of like to eventually get into is contact 1352 01:10:59,229 --> 01:11:02,159 specific tree canopy requirements. So in 1353 01:11:02,159 --> 01:11:06,020 a downtown area, your tree canopy requirement may not be as 1354 01:11:06,020 --> 01:11:08,159 much or won't be as much as, say, 1355 01:11:08,159 --> 01:11:11,619 a residential area simply based on the available planting 1356 01:11:11,619 --> 01:11:14,239 space. And, you know, the amount of tree 1357 01:11:14,239 --> 01:11:16,979 canopies, that's really what it boils down to is the 1358 01:11:16,979 --> 01:11:19,439 available planting space you have in, 1359 01:11:19,439 --> 01:11:22,039 you know, a downtown area or retail area or residential 1360 01:11:22,039 --> 01:11:25,840 area. And I guess another thing to 1361 01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:27,979 keep in mind, I'm sure you're probably aware of this, is 1362 01:11:27,979 --> 01:11:29,439 when you're going out in cow pastures, 1363 01:11:29,439 --> 01:11:32,300 and there really is there are some areas that that have no 1364 01:11:32,300 --> 01:11:34,640 trees at all right now, no no canopy. 1365 01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:38,359 And so would there be a landscape requirement that they 1366 01:11:38,359 --> 01:11:40,479 would have to come in and provide some 1367 01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:43,659 amount of, you know, correct forestation? Correct. And 1368 01:11:43,659 --> 01:11:45,920 right now I think that is dictated basically 1369 01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:50,159 by zoning like that they need a 45% canopy cover. Right. 1370 01:11:50,159 --> 01:11:58,159 And so my final concern is in the canopy 1371 01:11:58,159 --> 01:12:04,489 calculation. We've over the years seen a lot of discussion 1372 01:12:04,489 --> 01:12:08,399 about parking lot trees and 20% canopy 1373 01:12:08,399 --> 01:12:12,300 coverage and things like crepe myrtles qualify for a fair 1374 01:12:12,300 --> 01:12:14,960 amount of canopy and arguments about, 1375 01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:17,979 well, it says 20% canopy coverage, but even whenever 1376 01:12:17,979 --> 01:12:20,479 everything's fully established in 20 years, 1377 01:12:21,039 --> 01:12:22,979 you're only going to have about 5% of that parking lot 1378 01:12:22,979 --> 01:12:27,279 covered in shade. So I would like to make sure, 1379 01:12:27,279 --> 01:12:31,050 just so everybody understands what canopy calculations, 1380 01:12:31,050 --> 01:12:32,960 what those canopy calculations 1381 01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:36,750 will look like, and how it might not actually be shadow on 1382 01:12:36,750 --> 01:12:41,119 the ground kind of canopy. Just so 1383 01:12:41,119 --> 01:12:44,399 everybody's aware that 40% canopy coverage, that sounds 1384 01:12:44,399 --> 01:12:46,399 like it's going to be a heavily wooded 1385 01:12:46,399 --> 01:12:49,560 area. Well, depending on how the math works out, and 1386 01:12:49,560 --> 01:12:52,159 depending on what the species lists and so 1387 01:12:52,159 --> 01:12:55,380 forth are, you know, you could have parking lots that 1388 01:12:55,380 --> 01:12:58,239 approach 40% canopy coverage that really only 1389 01:12:58,239 --> 01:13:02,640 have about maybe 10 or 15% shade. Yeah, that's very, very 1390 01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:04,560 possible because the canopy covers 1391 01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:07,899 are all based on the maximum, you know, size of the tree. 1392 01:13:07,899 --> 01:13:10,640 And if the tree doesn't reach as potential, 1393 01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:16,550 you don't have as much canopy. Thank you. I've got a 1394 01:13:16,550 --> 01:13:19,520 question too about, so this is what we're 1395 01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:23,750 requiring developers to adhere to. Do we require ourselves 1396 01:13:23,750 --> 01:13:26,159 to adhere to the same standards? So like 1397 01:13:26,159 --> 01:13:29,949 when the city has a drainage project or a new substation 1398 01:13:29,949 --> 01:13:32,479 and some trees are going to be cut down, 1399 01:13:33,279 --> 01:13:35,649 do are we held to the same standard as far as mitigation 1400 01:13:35,649 --> 01:13:38,560 and preservation is concerned? Depends 1401 01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:41,970 on the type of project. If it is the construction of a 1402 01:13:41,970 --> 01:13:45,119 building, they have the same requirements. 1403 01:13:46,079 --> 01:13:50,850 If it's a part of infrastructure, utilities projects, then 1404 01:13:50,850 --> 01:13:53,439 they are exempt from the requirement. And 1405 01:13:54,239 --> 01:13:57,380 utilities, if it's a part of their master plan, DME has 1406 01:13:57,380 --> 01:14:00,560 their master plan for upgrading their 1407 01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:03,479 substations, their, you know, right of ways. They have 1408 01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:05,840 certain federal guidelines that they have to 1409 01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:09,909 adhere to as far as clearance from those facilities. So 1410 01:14:09,909 --> 01:14:13,199 they are exempt from the tree code. If a 1411 01:14:13,199 --> 01:14:16,500 developer is required to expand a street, even for 1412 01:14:16,500 --> 01:14:19,920 residential commercial development, if there's, 1413 01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:23,000 if engineers, an engineer tells them to expand the street, 1414 01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:24,880 widen the street for that development, 1415 01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:27,600 then any trees that lie in there, they're exempt from the 1416 01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:29,760 tree code because we're telling them 1417 01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:33,439 you have to require this for your project to move on. So if 1418 01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:36,720 the city were to build a new library 1419 01:14:37,359 --> 01:14:40,880 somewhere, any trees that would be cut down would still, we 1420 01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:42,800 would still adhere to the same. 1421 01:14:42,800 --> 01:14:45,920 Correct. I understand. Correct. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Are 1422 01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:47,279 there any other questions? 1423 01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:49,899 Real quickly, and I know we're running short of time. You 1424 01:14:49,899 --> 01:14:52,479 don't have to elaborate on this, 1425 01:14:52,479 --> 01:14:55,289 but maybe this isn't the place to do it. But part of the 1426 01:14:55,289 --> 01:14:57,600 concern here, of course, is canopy and 1427 01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:01,890 aesthetics. The other part of keeping trees clean is the 1428 01:15:01,890 --> 01:15:04,880 air. It helps preserve the ecology of the 1429 01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:08,720 place. So where we can't plant trees, say there is a lot of 1430 01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:12,560 building, have been in consideration 1431 01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:18,180 for rooftop vegetation to take up that slack to compensate 1432 01:15:18,180 --> 01:15:21,600 for that loss. It's, it's an option 1433 01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:25,619 for any any development to do a green roof, basically. But 1434 01:15:25,619 --> 01:15:27,680 it's, it's not a requirement. 1435 01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:30,630 Is that something though that we can look at and maybe see 1436 01:15:30,630 --> 01:15:32,560 if we could put in the plan? 1437 01:15:35,279 --> 01:15:39,170 I'm not sure if it'll fit in with this part of the plan. It 1438 01:15:39,170 --> 01:15:41,520 may be, you know, larger, you know, 1439 01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:46,920 development or DDC requirement or, you know, option. But it 1440 01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:48,880 wouldn't necessarily 1441 01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:52,779 fit in with the tree preservation aspect of it. Okay. So 1442 01:15:52,779 --> 01:15:55,039 you wouldn't want to factor in the other 1443 01:15:55,680 --> 01:16:00,199 value that trees have other than canopy? Well, those, those 1444 01:16:00,199 --> 01:16:02,159 , those are all, the other values 1445 01:16:02,159 --> 01:16:04,590 that trees have all relate back to the canopy. So that's 1446 01:16:04,590 --> 01:16:07,359 why we're focusing on canopy. I would 1447 01:16:07,359 --> 01:16:11,880 like to, to do an i-tree eco study, which will give us, you 1448 01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:14,720 know, specifically the structural value 1449 01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:17,829 of our trees. It'll give us the dollar amount that we're 1450 01:16:17,829 --> 01:16:20,319 benefiting from storm water mitigation, 1451 01:16:20,319 --> 01:16:23,920 CO2 uptake, nitrogen uptake, all the benefits that we know 1452 01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:26,000 trees do. Well, there's actually ways to 1453 01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:30,180 put dollar values on those, those benefits. And that's, you 1454 01:16:30,180 --> 01:16:32,479 know, one of my goals is to get one 1455 01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:36,260 of those studies done here and then so that when we say we 1456 01:16:36,260 --> 01:16:39,199 value trees, we can actually show, you 1457 01:16:39,199 --> 01:16:41,470 know, the value that they provide and the structural value 1458 01:16:41,470 --> 01:16:45,920 of the trees. Yes. So, well, so before you 1459 01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:48,829 ask that question, commissioner Rosal, we do have one more 1460 01:16:48,829 --> 01:16:51,119 presentation. It's 6 15 and there's some 1461 01:16:51,119 --> 01:16:54,520 food to get. I'm wondering, are you, are you okay holding 1462 01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:56,800 onto this question and asking Haywood 1463 01:16:57,359 --> 01:17:00,319 after the meeting or emailing him or is it pressing? Do you 1464 01:17:00,319 --> 01:17:01,760 need to ask it now or? 1465 01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:04,170 Definitely. I'm sorry to cut you off, but in the interest 1466 01:17:04,170 --> 01:17:05,760 of staying on time, I'd like to 1467 01:17:06,560 --> 01:17:09,090 move on. And I think we've given staff some really good 1468 01:17:09,090 --> 01:17:11,359 suggestions and ideas and asked some good 1469 01:17:11,359 --> 01:17:14,050 questions. This is coming back to us again. Absolutely. So 1470 01:17:14,050 --> 01:17:16,159 we'll have another opportunity to 1471 01:17:16,159 --> 01:17:20,670 speak on this. So, so thank you, commissioner Rosal for 1472 01:17:20,670 --> 01:17:24,000 yielding the floor. So if we could take just a 1473 01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:27,859 very quick recess and grab some food and then we'll return 1474 01:17:27,859 --> 01:17:30,560 back to our next agenda item. So I'm going 1475 01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:35,430 to pause our meeting. Yes. At 6 18 and we will reconvene in 1476 01:17:35,430 --> 01:17:37,760 just a few minutes. Thank you. 1477 01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:45,180 Willing, willing to sell the imminent domain process may 1478 01:17:45,180 --> 01:17:49,279 take even longer. And so ultimately 1479 01:17:49,279 --> 01:17:51,789 at the end, what we see in this commission is that the 1480 01:17:51,789 --> 01:17:53,840 final product ends up being the SUP 1481 01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:57,350 to get the substation approved. Well, from the time that 1482 01:17:57,350 --> 01:17:59,840 the public hearing for PEB and council 1483 01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:02,789 to buy the site, we have to engineer it, design it, bring 1484 01:18:02,789 --> 01:18:04,399 it to us two or three months of staff 1485 01:18:04,399 --> 01:18:08,439 review. It may be months or even years before that is that 1486 01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:11,039 SUP gets before this commission and back 1487 01:18:11,039 --> 01:18:14,500 to city council. And what staffs observe and y'all probably 1488 01:18:14,500 --> 01:18:16,960 observe yourself on these substations is 1489 01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:20,680 that we get, well, while staff's trying to solicit feedback 1490 01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:23,199 about buffers and screening and setbacks, 1491 01:18:23,199 --> 01:18:25,270 things like that to improve the site design and condition 1492 01:18:25,270 --> 01:18:26,880 the SUP, we're hearing a lot of feedback 1493 01:18:28,159 --> 01:18:30,560 frankly that about the signing of that substation that it 1494 01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:32,640 shouldn't be there. And frankly, that's a 1495 01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:35,079 little late in the conversation and it puts us a little bit 1496 01:18:35,079 --> 01:18:36,720 awkward position to say, well, you know, 1497 01:18:36,720 --> 01:18:39,569 council's already approved this. Can we really talk about 1498 01:18:39,569 --> 01:18:41,600 screening and landscaping? And so what we 1499 01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:44,479 like to do is really move that public input process that we 1500 01:18:44,479 --> 01:18:46,239 have with the SUP and move it up to the 1501 01:18:46,239 --> 01:18:49,810 very beginning so that those conversations can be had. The 1502 01:18:49,810 --> 01:18:52,319 public is more aware of a final site 1503 01:18:52,319 --> 01:18:54,869 of a decision before council even approves the purchase of 1504 01:18:54,869 --> 01:18:56,319 it. And that's what that's going to 1505 01:18:56,319 --> 01:18:59,100 require is a code amendment. Currently it's the SUP process 1506 01:18:59,100 --> 01:19:00,399 . So what you will be seeing, 1507 01:19:01,119 --> 01:19:03,590 and we're in the very, very early stages, so I don't know 1508 01:19:03,590 --> 01:19:05,359 exactly when, but you will be seeing 1509 01:19:05,359 --> 01:19:08,609 some type of code amendment coming forward discussing that 1510 01:19:08,609 --> 01:19:10,239 type of process. And if in the 1511 01:19:10,239 --> 01:19:13,409 end we can agree on some, the SUP process being earlier in 1512 01:19:13,409 --> 01:19:15,520 the system, then there's some criteria 1513 01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:19,010 that these facilities can follow that's vetted through the 1514 01:19:19,010 --> 01:19:21,199 public that we all can agree upon. 1515 01:19:21,199 --> 01:19:23,470 So I just want to give you a heads up that that was coming 1516 01:19:23,470 --> 01:19:24,960 and if you have any questions, 1517 01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:28,060 I'll be happy to take them. And if I can just piggyback on 1518 01:19:28,060 --> 01:19:31,359 Mike's presentation just now, 1519 01:19:31,359 --> 01:19:34,000 and the discussion that we're having, I want everybody to 1520 01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:35,760 keep in their mind two things. One, 1521 01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:38,840 if you recall, everybody's been talking about substations. 1522 01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:40,479 We also have to broaden our mind a 1523 01:19:40,479 --> 01:19:43,430 little bit and think about the CIP program that, for 1524 01:19:43,430 --> 01:19:46,159 instance, DME has and what the future is for 1525 01:19:46,159 --> 01:19:49,520 those developments, those types of other programs that they 1526 01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:51,520 might have. Also the city council 1527 01:19:52,399 --> 01:19:56,600 has taken a lead and is charging that we reevaluate certain 1528 01:19:56,600 --> 01:19:58,880 processes as it relates to 1529 01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:03,260 the infrastructure needs that DME has. That being said, the 1530 01:20:03,260 --> 01:20:05,439 only reason we wanted to highlight this 1531 01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:08,390 to you is we are making an effort with all our programs 1532 01:20:08,390 --> 01:20:09,840 that we bring before you, 1533 01:20:10,479 --> 01:20:12,619 is that we've started thinking about something. We're vet 1534 01:20:12,619 --> 01:20:14,560 ting that with you. We're moving forward. 1535 01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:17,670 Could the scope change? Potentially yes, but we want you to 1536 01:20:17,670 --> 01:20:19,279 be involved from the onset. 1537 01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:23,020 I appreciate Mike and his team, Ross and Beverly, taking 1538 01:20:23,020 --> 01:20:24,319 the initiative on this, 1539 01:20:24,319 --> 01:20:27,210 and we'll keep moving forward and providing you insight and 1540 01:20:27,210 --> 01:20:28,960 data as to the progress. And 1541 01:20:28,960 --> 01:20:31,000 eventually there will be a code amendment, but we need to 1542 01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:32,239 look at the broader picture. 1543 01:20:32,880 --> 01:20:35,119 So we just wanted to bring that to your attention. 1544 01:20:39,439 --> 01:20:40,159 Anything else? 1545 01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:47,500 Okay. Well with that, we are going to close our work 1546 01:20:47,500 --> 01:20:52,319 session at 627. We will take a brief break 1547 01:20:52,319 --> 01:20:57,520 and then we will reconvene in the council chambers around 6 1548 01:20:57,520 --> 01:21:00,239 35 or so. So thank you. 1549 01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:09,090 Good evening and welcome to tonight's Planning and Zoning 1550 01:21:09,090 --> 01:21:12,000 Commission regular meeting. 1551 01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:15,960 The time is 642. I'm sorry to those of you who are waiting 1552 01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:18,159 for us. We did run a little bit long 1553 01:21:18,159 --> 01:21:20,539 at our work session, so thank you for your patience. It is 1554 01:21:20,539 --> 01:21:23,600 December 9th, 2015, and this 1555 01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:27,289 meeting has been posted in accordance to the Texas Open 1556 01:21:27,289 --> 01:21:30,319 Meetings Act. Our first order of business 1557 01:21:30,319 --> 01:21:32,239 is the pledge to the U.S. and the Texas flags. 1558 01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:47,069 For which it stands, one nation under God, one visible, 1559 01:21:47,069 --> 01:21:49,199 with liberty and justice for all. 1560 01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:11,380 Thank you. Our next item of business is the consent agenda. 1561 01:22:11,380 --> 01:22:14,319 Do I have a motion from anyone? 1562 01:22:18,399 --> 01:22:19,199 Commissioner Taylor. 1563 01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:21,680 I move approval of the consent agenda. 1564 01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:24,880 Commissioner Dudowitz. 1565 01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:26,000 I second the motion. 1566 01:22:26,000 --> 01:22:29,619 Is there any discussion? Okay, then please vote on the 1567 01:22:29,619 --> 01:22:29,920 board. 1568 01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:42,399 That motion passes, six to zero. 1569 01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:48,770 Our next item is public hearing. A bit of housekeeping. 1570 01:22:48,770 --> 01:22:51,920 Item 3A has been withdrawn 1571 01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:55,000 by the applicant, so we will not be hearing that case this 1572 01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:55,680 evening. 1573 01:22:59,119 --> 01:22:59,119 Yeah, it's FR150024, final replant of the Vasquez addition, 1574 01:22:59,119 --> 01:23:06,159 lots 1R and 2R, block four. 1575 01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:10,079 We will not be hearing this item tonight, so if you're here 1576 01:23:10,079 --> 01:23:12,640 for that, I guess you're excused. 1577 01:23:13,920 --> 01:23:19,119 And then our next item would be 3B, S150012, hold a public 1578 01:23:19,119 --> 01:23:21,840 hearing and consider making a 1579 01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:24,789 recommendation to city council regarding a specific use 1580 01:23:24,789 --> 01:23:26,640 permit for multifamily dwellings 1581 01:23:26,640 --> 01:23:29,859 on two properties, zone neighborhood residential mixed use 1582 01:23:29,859 --> 01:23:31,359 12, or NRMU 12. 1583 01:23:31,359 --> 01:23:35,489 The subject properties are approximately .25 and .33 acres 1584 01:23:35,489 --> 01:23:35,920 in size 1585 01:23:35,920 --> 01:23:39,920 and are located at 609 and 612 Meadowview Court in Denton. 1586 01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:48,079 This is S1512, the project name is Meadowview Lots. 1587 01:23:50,399 --> 01:23:52,000 The request before you tonight is to consider a 1588 01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:54,000 recommendation for a specific use permit or 1589 01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:57,390 SUP to allow multifamily developments on properties in the 1590 01:23:57,390 --> 01:23:58,720 NRMU 12 district. 1591 01:23:59,279 --> 01:24:02,899 They're located at 609 and 612 Meadowview Court, shown here 1592 01:24:02,899 --> 01:24:03,520 in yellow. 1593 01:24:04,319 --> 01:24:06,920 The two properties in yellow at the end of Meadowview, at 1594 01:24:06,920 --> 01:24:08,079 the cul-de-sac of Meadowview Court. 1595 01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:13,119 As I said, they are within a neighborhood residential mixed 1596 01:24:13,119 --> 01:24:13,840 use 12 1597 01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:16,479 district which requires the SUP for multifamily. 1598 01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:19,970 A little bit of background on the side, in 1970 it was 1599 01:24:19,970 --> 01:24:21,279 approved as a planned development. 1600 01:24:22,079 --> 01:24:25,359 Apartments were shown on this whole block for Meadowview. 1601 01:24:26,479 --> 01:24:29,880 In 1972 it was platted into this current configuration with 1602 01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:30,960 these lots. 1603 01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:36,399 Then 1984 PD-8 was amended to allow fourplexes on the site 1604 01:24:36,399 --> 01:24:37,520 on seven of the eight lots. 1605 01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:41,359 One of these lots was a pool that was pre-existing. 1606 01:24:42,960 --> 01:24:45,229 In 1985 you can see that five of those fourplexes were 1607 01:24:45,229 --> 01:24:46,000 constructed 1608 01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:52,229 here and the two had approval for fourplexes but were never 1609 01:24:52,229 --> 01:24:53,279 constructed. 1610 01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:57,930 And then in 2002 the citywide rezoning rezoned it to the NR 1611 01:24:57,930 --> 01:24:59,279 MU 12 that it is today 1612 01:24:59,279 --> 01:25:01,359 and then triggered the SUP requirement. 1613 01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:05,920 These are some photos of the site. 1614 01:25:07,199 --> 01:25:09,470 These two sites you can see that they're undeveloped with 1615 01:25:09,470 --> 01:25:11,119 some tree lines in the back. 1616 01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:15,840 These are some photos of the other fourplexes on the street 1617 01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:15,840 . 1618 01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:19,029 You can see they're roughly two stories, four units each, 1619 01:25:19,029 --> 01:25:21,279 brick on the bottom with siding on top. 1620 01:25:23,199 --> 01:25:25,890 What the applicant is proposing to do is construct this 1621 01:25:25,890 --> 01:25:26,720 site plan 1622 01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:31,800 with the building shown here, driveway access off Meadow 1623 01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:33,920 view Court, and the building here with 1624 01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:36,760 another access off Meadowview Court with all parking to the 1625 01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:38,319 side or rear of the property. 1626 01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:43,880 These are generally the proposed elevations for the four 1627 01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:44,319 plexes. 1628 01:25:44,319 --> 01:25:48,699 They'll be generally brick construction, composition angle 1629 01:25:48,699 --> 01:25:50,079 roof, similar to what's out there 1630 01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:52,739 and the scale and size and architecture of what's currently 1631 01:25:52,739 --> 01:25:54,319 existing on Meadowview Court. 1632 01:25:56,319 --> 01:25:58,640 Some considerations and staff's recommendation. 1633 01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:00,920 The property has always been intended for multiple families 1634 01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:01,760 since 1970. 1635 01:26:02,319 --> 01:26:06,529 And fourplexes were approved on it originally in 1984 and 1636 01:26:06,529 --> 01:26:07,680 were built in 1985. 1637 01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:10,500 The proposal is consistent with the scale and density of 1638 01:26:10,500 --> 01:26:12,000 the surrounding properties 1639 01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:13,920 and it complies with other criteria for approval and then 1640 01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:15,119 development codes. 1641 01:26:15,119 --> 01:26:17,329 Vowel on that in your backup. I'd be happy to go through it 1642 01:26:17,329 --> 01:26:17,840 if you wish. 1643 01:26:19,439 --> 01:26:22,010 We did send notice of this public hearing to 22 owners 1644 01:26:22,010 --> 01:26:23,279 within 200 feet 1645 01:26:23,279 --> 01:26:25,680 and 65 physical addresses within 500 feet. 1646 01:26:26,319 --> 01:26:31,060 We received two responses, one in opposition, shown here in 1647 01:26:31,060 --> 01:26:33,359 red, and one neutral, shown here in yellow. 1648 01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:38,069 Based on the considerations presented and the requirements 1649 01:26:38,069 --> 01:26:39,279 of the development code, 1650 01:26:39,279 --> 01:26:42,130 staff does recommend approval of this SCP subject to the 1651 01:26:42,130 --> 01:26:43,520 following conditions. 1652 01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:45,609 One, that the maximum density of each lot shall be four 1653 01:26:45,609 --> 01:26:45,920 units. 1654 01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:49,229 Each building shall be no greater than two stories in 1655 01:26:49,229 --> 01:26:49,680 height. 1656 01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:52,000 And three, that the proposed development shall 1657 01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:54,319 substantially comply with the attached site plan. 1658 01:26:54,319 --> 01:26:56,109 And with that I'll stand for any questions. I believe the 1659 01:26:56,109 --> 01:26:57,680 applicant is here to answer questions as well. 1660 01:27:00,319 --> 01:27:01,199 Commissioner Taylor. 1661 01:27:02,079 --> 01:27:04,600 Thank you, Chair. I have a question regarding the site plan 1662 01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:04,800 . 1663 01:27:09,279 --> 01:27:12,260 So it's kind of hard to see up on the screen here, but 1664 01:27:12,260 --> 01:27:15,279 there are four grade areas in the driveway there. 1665 01:27:17,119 --> 01:27:17,760 What are those? 1666 01:27:18,319 --> 01:27:21,569 Those are previous pavers because they are above their lot 1667 01:27:21,569 --> 01:27:23,439 coverage without previous pavement. 1668 01:27:23,439 --> 01:27:26,000 Because the lot is so small for the zoning requirement. 1669 01:27:26,960 --> 01:27:29,199 They're not parking spaces, they're just previous pavers. 1670 01:27:29,199 --> 01:27:32,640 Okay, and were each of these lots considered individually 1671 01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:36,800 or were they both considered together for the lot coverage? 1672 01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:40,369 They're individually for the lot coverage. For density, it 1673 01:27:40,369 --> 01:27:43,039 's by subdivision, so it's not by individual lot. 1674 01:27:43,039 --> 01:27:45,359 Okay, so in this case that's a slightly smaller parcel, 1675 01:27:45,359 --> 01:27:47,119 needs more previous? 1676 01:27:47,119 --> 01:27:48,000 Correct. 1677 01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:49,520 Okay, thank you. 1678 01:27:53,600 --> 01:27:56,880 Any other questions for staff at this moment? 1679 01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:00,340 Okay. 1680 01:28:01,119 --> 01:28:03,039 Is there anybody who can say anything about this? 1681 01:28:03,039 --> 01:28:05,680 Yes, sir. That's my next step. You beat me to the punch. 1682 01:28:05,680 --> 01:28:08,829 This is a public hearing and you're certainly welcome to, 1683 01:28:08,829 --> 01:28:11,039 if you would like to speak to this item, 1684 01:28:11,039 --> 01:28:12,720 to please approach the podium and 1685 01:28:16,399 --> 01:28:17,189 state your name and address for the record please. And then 1686 01:28:17,189 --> 01:28:18,720 when you're done, 1687 01:28:18,720 --> 01:28:18,720 if you could just do us a favor and fill out a card and 1688 01:28:18,720 --> 01:28:21,680 hand it to Athene. 1689 01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:24,000 I'll fill that out outside, but okay. 1690 01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:24,880 Okay, thank you. 1691 01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:28,159 I'm Brent Duncan. I own property at 3106 Donner Road, which 1692 01:28:28,159 --> 01:28:30,880 I've got basically 420 foot of property across. 1693 01:28:31,920 --> 01:28:33,609 Quite a bit of this right here encroaches on my back 1694 01:28:33,609 --> 01:28:35,199 property. I've been, 1695 01:28:35,199 --> 01:28:38,640 I only bought the property in 2006. Since then, I've, you 1696 01:28:38,640 --> 01:28:40,479 know, who owned the property? 1697 01:28:40,479 --> 01:28:43,220 I've been maintaining the fence line, cutting boat arc 1698 01:28:43,220 --> 01:28:45,359 trees and everything down since 2007, 1699 01:28:45,359 --> 01:28:48,760 disposing of stuff. My problem is on that right there. We, 1700 01:28:48,760 --> 01:28:49,680 you know, bought things, 1701 01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:52,109 we got a nice property right there. I've got that one 1702 01:28:52,109 --> 01:28:53,840 corner of my property, I've got a bunch of 1703 01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:56,560 duplexes. I've got no problem with development. I'm a self- 1704 01:28:56,560 --> 01:28:59,039 employed plumber, but the thing is on it 1705 01:28:59,039 --> 01:29:01,819 right there, we've got, I get dirty diapers, everything 1706 01:29:01,819 --> 01:29:04,399 thrown over the fence. I mean, it's, 1707 01:29:04,399 --> 01:29:07,359 you know, it's, it's not been a good deal. We've had, it's 1708 01:29:07,359 --> 01:29:09,039 kind of like a natural environment back 1709 01:29:09,039 --> 01:29:12,750 there. Get along good, they're better than ever. My 1710 01:29:12,750 --> 01:29:16,399 complaint, only thing about this is, we're putting, 1711 01:29:16,399 --> 01:29:18,750 you know, two plexes up. I was looking at, I've owned two 1712 01:29:18,750 --> 01:29:22,319 lots right there, got 2.5, 2, 3, 4 acres. 1713 01:29:22,319 --> 01:29:25,279 I was looking at replatting it, putting a house back there. 1714 01:29:25,279 --> 01:29:27,359 But, I mean, this right here changed 1715 01:29:27,359 --> 01:29:29,569 my whole view of the face because I'm fixing it up with 1716 01:29:29,569 --> 01:29:31,520 four plexes with upstairs viewing right back 1717 01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:34,069 down on what's going to be in my backyard. You know, it's 1718 01:29:34,069 --> 01:29:36,239 going to be one of my kids, my upper house. 1719 01:29:36,239 --> 01:29:38,510 I was going to live back there. We put a shop, went to the 1720 01:29:38,510 --> 01:29:40,399 city council, you know, planning and zoning, 1721 01:29:40,399 --> 01:29:44,439 put up a shop, got back. I work on cars, some trucking. You 1722 01:29:44,439 --> 01:29:46,560 know, it's not a bad thing. It's 1723 01:29:46,560 --> 01:29:49,539 been like a residential neighborhood. We love everything. 1724 01:29:49,539 --> 01:29:51,119 The only thing I've got is on that 1725 01:29:51,119 --> 01:29:54,060 right there, you're putting two stories in that are backing 1726 01:29:54,060 --> 01:29:55,760 up to property and the rest of them, 1727 01:29:56,399 --> 01:29:58,479 none of the rest of the properties down, any of the 1728 01:29:58,479 --> 01:30:01,119 property north of me are two, you know, 1729 01:30:01,119 --> 01:30:03,630 four plexes that are two stories. You know, I can see it, 1730 01:30:03,630 --> 01:30:06,479 you know, single story, two plexes going 1731 01:30:06,479 --> 01:30:09,630 in, duplexes going in, you know, where I'm not just looking 1732 01:30:09,630 --> 01:30:13,439 right down on me. I don't know, you 1733 01:30:13,439 --> 01:30:16,189 know, it's going to go through. They marked the trees two 1734 01:30:16,189 --> 01:30:18,159 months ago. They look, most of the trees 1735 01:30:18,159 --> 01:30:20,079 they tagged were a bunch of boat arches, which are trash 1736 01:30:20,079 --> 01:30:21,520 trees anywhere that are that big that I've 1737 01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:25,710 been trimming since 2007. Yeah, but the only complaint I 1738 01:30:25,710 --> 01:30:27,840 had was, I mean, it's going to go 1739 01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:30,539 through. I know that. I know what the process and didn't 1740 01:30:30,539 --> 01:30:32,560 does, how long it takes me to get permits 1741 01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:35,010 and go through planning zoning. How long it took me to put 1742 01:30:35,010 --> 01:30:36,479 up a accessory building and back my 1743 01:30:36,479 --> 01:30:39,109 property took me three and a half months, three to three 1744 01:30:39,109 --> 01:30:41,039 and a half months just to get approval and 1745 01:30:41,039 --> 01:30:43,510 put it up. Went through the proper channels and did 1746 01:30:43,510 --> 01:30:45,600 everything. Thing is I'm looking at, we had a 1747 01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:47,939 nice residential neighborhood, we're fixing that four plex 1748 01:30:47,939 --> 01:30:49,520 es looking down on it. And I think that 1749 01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:52,470 would decrease the value of a property if what we want to 1750 01:30:52,470 --> 01:30:54,800 do is build a house. I'm not going to want 1751 01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:57,590 to have it with a bunch of four plexes looking right down 1752 01:30:57,590 --> 01:30:59,359 on my property on a house that I'm 1753 01:30:59,359 --> 01:31:02,220 looking at replatting and building a house on that's 1754 01:31:02,220 --> 01:31:06,399 morning flight. But that's, you know, 1755 01:31:06,399 --> 01:31:08,909 if they do decide to do it, put me a 10 foot proxy fence 1756 01:31:08,909 --> 01:31:10,079 across there. I mean, 1757 01:31:11,119 --> 01:31:13,069 you know, that way I'll keep my chicken hen coops and stuff 1758 01:31:13,069 --> 01:31:14,720 away from there, not leaving their 1759 01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:21,489 permit. Thank you. Thank you. If you could hand. Oh, pardon 1760 01:31:21,489 --> 01:31:23,680 me, sir. I'm sorry. Looks like our 1761 01:31:23,680 --> 01:31:25,710 commission, the commissioners have a couple of questions 1762 01:31:25,710 --> 01:31:27,039 for you. Do you mind saying a question? 1763 01:31:27,039 --> 01:31:31,029 So commissioner, that's that, please. Thank you. Sure. So 1764 01:31:31,029 --> 01:31:33,359 my question simply is, so you touched on 1765 01:31:33,359 --> 01:31:37,079 a few different things. Can you give me the, your top most 1766 01:31:37,079 --> 01:31:39,520 important concern? Is it the, the, the 1767 01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:42,729 vantage point or what's kind of most important to you? Well 1768 01:31:42,729 --> 01:31:44,640 , the thing is I've got a couple, 1769 01:31:44,640 --> 01:31:46,909 I've got a couple of grandkids, I brought in, they run back 1770 01:31:46,909 --> 01:31:48,880 there and everything. We've had some 1771 01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:52,590 duplexes stuff that are Jason, probably I'd say 40, I got 1772 01:31:52,590 --> 01:31:55,039 like 420 foot across my back property. 1773 01:31:55,600 --> 01:31:58,819 It's nice. I got probably 40 feet, I'd say roughly. I didn 1774 01:31:58,819 --> 01:32:00,720 't measure that or anything, but I've got 1775 01:32:01,520 --> 01:32:04,939 a proxy fence there, but I got some duplexes that have mean 1776 01:32:04,939 --> 01:32:05,359 dogs, 1777 01:32:05,359 --> 01:32:07,399 try to shoot holes through the fence and everything else. I 1778 01:32:07,399 --> 01:32:09,039 mean, you can't pick your neighbors. 1779 01:32:09,039 --> 01:32:11,850 You know, I try to be nice to everybody, but at the same 1780 01:32:11,850 --> 01:32:15,359 time, if these end up being some duplexes 1781 01:32:15,359 --> 01:32:20,000 that are not, you know, I don't know, you know, I don't 1782 01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:23,279 know. You can't, you get good neighbors, 1783 01:32:23,279 --> 01:32:25,680 you get bad neighbors. I try to get along good with 1784 01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:27,760 everybody. The thing is on it though, I'm 1785 01:32:27,760 --> 01:32:30,510 just looking at the point where I'm thinking, you know, 1786 01:32:30,510 --> 01:32:32,479 when I bought this thing, I looked at the 1787 01:32:32,479 --> 01:32:34,569 lot, we drove around that area right there. I didn't think 1788 01:32:34,569 --> 01:32:36,640 they'd ever built there. I didn't come, 1789 01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:38,989 this first top meeting like this I've ever been to in my 1790 01:32:38,989 --> 01:32:41,760 life. I just did not think, and I'm thinking 1791 01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:45,470 it could kind of decrease my values and my property later 1792 01:32:45,470 --> 01:32:48,079 on. But I don't know. It's just, it might 1793 01:32:48,079 --> 01:32:50,649 increase it. I have no idea. But I was just looking at that 1794 01:32:50,649 --> 01:32:52,640 . If they did build this thing right there, 1795 01:32:52,640 --> 01:32:55,529 why don't they put up a nice fence across there so, you 1796 01:32:55,529 --> 01:32:57,840 know, it doesn't encroach on my property 1797 01:32:57,840 --> 01:33:00,829 near as much as what, you know, because I got barbed wire 1798 01:33:00,829 --> 01:33:02,880 fence across there and chicken wire. 1799 01:33:02,880 --> 01:33:05,510 I got a nice dog that cruises the back area, kills all the 1800 01:33:05,510 --> 01:33:06,960 possums, try to get my hands, 1801 01:33:07,680 --> 01:33:09,760 everything else. But at the same time, I'm just trying to 1802 01:33:09,760 --> 01:33:10,800 keep the place nice, 1803 01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:13,729 you know, because I got grandkids ride little cars and 1804 01:33:13,729 --> 01:33:15,600 stuff around there and I try to just 1805 01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:18,800 keep it clean and try to protect the area. Okay, thank you. 1806 01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:20,720 Any other questions? 1807 01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:23,680 Commissioner Beck. Thank you, Chair. Thank you for coming 1808 01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:24,239 down and speaking. 1809 01:33:26,159 --> 01:33:28,939 The tree buffer, and I might have to get staff back up here 1810 01:33:28,939 --> 01:33:31,119 to answer, are you aware that they're 1811 01:33:31,119 --> 01:33:34,800 creating a buffer that's part of the, have you seen that? 1812 01:33:34,800 --> 01:33:37,039 Are you aware? Well, those things, 1813 01:33:37,039 --> 01:33:40,229 there's all kinds of, there's trees. The previous owners of 1814 01:33:40,229 --> 01:33:41,920 my place had put a bunch of privet back 1815 01:33:41,920 --> 01:33:44,890 there, which is a nasty invasive weed brought from China 1816 01:33:44,890 --> 01:33:46,800 years ago, I don't like the name. 1817 01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:48,960 It's kind of an invasive weed. They did that, I know why. 1818 01:33:48,960 --> 01:33:50,479 They put a bunch of that across there 1819 01:33:50,479 --> 01:33:53,840 to try to, you know, kind of buffer the area. If anything, 1820 01:33:53,840 --> 01:33:55,760 I'm going to take that stuff out. 1821 01:33:55,760 --> 01:33:58,640 I cleaned the fence line with hackberries and everything, 1822 01:33:58,640 --> 01:33:59,920 you know, because hackberries grow up 1823 01:33:59,920 --> 01:34:02,239 in the, in that basin barbwire fence all the way down 1824 01:34:02,239 --> 01:34:04,640 through there, they'll ruin a fence. I keep 1825 01:34:04,640 --> 01:34:07,880 my property, any tree that's within all my property line, 1826 01:34:07,880 --> 01:34:09,600 which I think I've already seen 1827 01:34:10,239 --> 01:34:12,670 on my plat and everything, it looks like my fence is 1828 01:34:12,670 --> 01:34:14,720 basically just right inside that, 1829 01:34:14,720 --> 01:34:17,350 it's barbwire. So I try to keep that cleaned up. The rest 1830 01:34:17,350 --> 01:34:19,279 of trees on that property, I mean, 1831 01:34:19,279 --> 01:34:21,909 I'm not going to make a complaint. I, you know, I have to m 1832 01:34:21,909 --> 01:34:24,239 ow it all the time. So what I do is, 1833 01:34:24,239 --> 01:34:26,640 I mean, all the tree branches hanging down, I cut them, 1834 01:34:26,640 --> 01:34:28,159 take care of them. But the thing is, 1835 01:34:28,159 --> 01:34:30,960 honestly, most of the trees that I did see about a month 1836 01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:32,800 and a half ago, I guess, they came in and 1837 01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:35,579 put the pink tags, there's one, those are Boad Ark trees. 1838 01:34:35,579 --> 01:34:37,199 Once I come in there, take them out, 1839 01:34:37,199 --> 01:34:40,029 put a good red up, live up, something that's going to, you 1840 01:34:40,029 --> 01:34:42,159 know, be better. I'm at the trees, 1841 01:34:42,159 --> 01:34:45,369 I'm not a tree hugger by any means, but I want at least 1842 01:34:45,369 --> 01:34:47,600 nice trees. I mean, I could care less, 1843 01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:50,739 that's on somebody else's property, you know. But the way I 1844 01:34:50,739 --> 01:34:53,680 look at it though, is just, it'd be nice 1845 01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:56,909 if they did decide to develop this thing right there, 1846 01:34:56,909 --> 01:34:59,439 because it's going to probably go through. 1847 01:34:59,439 --> 01:35:01,750 They've already spent a lot of money, invested their time 1848 01:35:01,750 --> 01:35:03,119 in it. I don't hate to see anybody 1849 01:35:03,119 --> 01:35:05,909 waste money, but if they're going to do that, at least put 1850 01:35:05,909 --> 01:35:07,920 maybe a prophecy fence on that side. 1851 01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:10,359 I don't have the money to go ahead and do it on my side, 1852 01:35:10,359 --> 01:35:11,920 but I would help maintain it. 1853 01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:15,149 But the thing is on it though, because I know how it is, 1854 01:35:15,149 --> 01:35:17,359 having duplexes or apartments. Yeah, 1855 01:35:17,359 --> 01:35:20,210 we bought this thing, there's a bunch of apartments back in 1856 01:35:20,210 --> 01:35:22,479 there behind us. We had section 8 on one 1857 01:35:22,479 --> 01:35:26,470 side, not really issues. I've just had, I talked to people, 1858 01:35:26,470 --> 01:35:28,560 tried to talk to them point blank, 1859 01:35:28,560 --> 01:35:31,100 just say, "Hey, we're throwing your trash over the fence 1860 01:35:31,100 --> 01:35:33,520 and it seems to stop." You just gotta be nice. 1861 01:35:33,520 --> 01:35:36,630 On the fence, what were you looking for? A privacy fence? 1862 01:35:36,630 --> 01:35:39,439 What's that, sir? You were talking about a 1863 01:35:39,439 --> 01:35:41,289 fence, if we could put a fence up. Well, if they did 1864 01:35:41,289 --> 01:35:43,119 something like that, you know, like we bought 1865 01:35:43,119 --> 01:35:46,119 that thing because it's basically country living in the 1866 01:35:46,119 --> 01:35:48,640 city. Everybody in our whole neighborhood, 1867 01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:52,319 we get along. I mean, everybody looks out for each other. 1868 01:35:52,319 --> 01:35:54,319 We mind our own business, but everybody 1869 01:35:54,319 --> 01:35:56,670 gets along, you know, in our neighborhood. The old Don, it 1870 01:35:56,670 --> 01:35:58,479 's called the Don of the Old States. 1871 01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:00,560 We're trying to improve our neighborhood and keep our 1872 01:36:00,560 --> 01:36:03,520 houses up to standard. And, but the way I 1873 01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:08,020 looked at it, just, you know, putting that back, it kind of 1874 01:36:08,020 --> 01:36:10,399 ruined my aspect on replatting my, 1875 01:36:10,399 --> 01:36:12,750 one of my plats and putting a house right there. I don't 1876 01:36:12,750 --> 01:36:14,399 want to do it right back there because I 1877 01:36:14,399 --> 01:36:16,539 thought it was just going to be tree property back there. I 1878 01:36:16,539 --> 01:36:18,239 thought it was, I did not realize that we'd 1879 01:36:18,239 --> 01:36:21,590 had truck, you know, fourplexes looking down on top of it. 1880 01:36:21,590 --> 01:36:23,760 I've got no problem. I just don't like the 1881 01:36:23,760 --> 01:36:27,399 fourplex idea. The duplexes, I got no problem with. But I 1882 01:36:27,399 --> 01:36:29,520 mean, if y'all decide to do that, 1883 01:36:29,520 --> 01:36:31,609 nothing I can say about it. I'm just kind of trying to 1884 01:36:31,609 --> 01:36:34,319 voice my opinion on that. And my only 1885 01:36:34,319 --> 01:36:36,399 thing is if they did do something like that and put four 1886 01:36:36,399 --> 01:36:38,000 plexes up, it'd be nice to have a decent 1887 01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:41,439 fence. So we're not seeing everything all the time. Okay. 1888 01:36:41,439 --> 01:36:44,720 All right. Thank you. One, I would like to 1889 01:36:44,720 --> 01:36:49,170 do a follow up probably with Mike on the barrier. Let's 1890 01:36:49,170 --> 01:36:53,199 finish if we, yeah. Can we come back to that? 1891 01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:56,800 Okay. Sure. On that thought. Yes. Commissioner Dottois, did 1892 01:36:56,800 --> 01:36:58,640 you have a question? Mike, could you help, 1893 01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:02,079 could you put up the site allocation, location aerial map 1894 01:37:02,079 --> 01:37:03,199 and I could have some questions, 1895 01:37:03,199 --> 01:37:09,430 some clarification. So I understand. Okay. Let's work. What 1896 01:37:09,430 --> 01:37:11,199 do you want to lighten up? 1897 01:37:11,199 --> 01:37:14,800 This is my two lots right here. Yes. I'm seeing a different 1898 01:37:14,800 --> 01:37:17,039 photograph, which is a little bit larger. 1899 01:37:17,039 --> 01:37:20,720 Let's try this one. Okay. There we go. And your property is 1900 01:37:20,720 --> 01:37:23,600 ? Is the arrow here? Yes. I'm not, 1901 01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:25,380 I don't know anything about a computer. I'm going to let 1902 01:37:25,380 --> 01:37:27,520 Mike help you there. Yes. So that's your 1903 01:37:27,520 --> 01:37:30,960 property, both those sites there and that building with the 1904 01:37:30,960 --> 01:37:33,520 gray. With the blue roof, that is mine. 1905 01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:36,399 What is that? That is my storage building. I got a 48 Ford 1906 01:37:36,399 --> 01:37:38,239 super deluxe eight coupe in there. I've 1907 01:37:38,239 --> 01:37:40,789 got some cars I'm working on. I've had for years. I'm 1908 01:37:40,789 --> 01:37:43,039 trying to get worked on. So it's kind of a 1909 01:37:43,039 --> 01:37:46,369 storage workout. I mean, a garage and cars. I see a number 1910 01:37:46,369 --> 01:37:48,560 of vehicles there. Okay. And then where's 1911 01:37:48,560 --> 01:37:51,050 your residence at please? My residence is, well, I can't do 1912 01:37:51,050 --> 01:37:52,800 it. It's right here. The one with the 1913 01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:57,369 blue roof. Oh, okay. Okay. That's the one I'm looking at. I 1914 01:37:57,369 --> 01:37:59,199 was trying to, we were looking at 1915 01:37:59,199 --> 01:38:01,920 replating this lot right here. The one that's kind of 1916 01:38:01,920 --> 01:38:04,159 triangular zone and putting a house here. And 1917 01:38:04,159 --> 01:38:07,119 that's, that was our whole intention. I grew up in, didn't 1918 01:38:07,119 --> 01:38:10,239 love the area, but. Mike, you have a 1919 01:38:11,119 --> 01:38:14,479 site photo that I saw you through because I could. 1920 01:38:17,119 --> 01:38:18,880 Maybe it's my backup. Excuse me. 1921 01:38:21,920 --> 01:38:30,729 I'm going to put. Okay. So I'm looking at your storage 1922 01:38:30,729 --> 01:38:32,239 right there. And those are, I can see 1923 01:38:32,239 --> 01:38:34,619 there's some boat arc trees there and some other things 1924 01:38:34,619 --> 01:38:36,399 that you go back. Yeah. These, these, these 1925 01:38:36,399 --> 01:38:38,710 trees all along there. Most of the majority of our bas 1926 01:38:38,710 --> 01:38:41,039 ements are boat arc. Yeah. You know, I'm at. 1927 01:38:42,079 --> 01:38:45,279 And so there's somewhat of a buffer there now. And Mike, 1928 01:38:45,279 --> 01:38:46,239 are we looking at a, 1929 01:38:47,199 --> 01:38:50,569 an additional trees in that site? Well, yeah, that's 1930 01:38:50,569 --> 01:38:52,399 actually a part of the discussion. Now 1931 01:38:52,399 --> 01:38:55,199 there is a 16 foot utility, utility easement back in there. 1932 01:38:55,199 --> 01:38:56,720 So there are some issues with buffering 1933 01:38:56,720 --> 01:38:59,189 trees there. So fence may be the better option. I don't 1934 01:38:59,189 --> 01:39:01,039 want to speak for the African blue. That's 1935 01:39:01,039 --> 01:39:03,250 something we're still kind of in the works with discussing. 1936 01:39:03,250 --> 01:39:05,279 Thank you. There is that utility 1937 01:39:05,279 --> 01:39:07,829 easement that, you know, it's kind of weird. I have never 1938 01:39:07,829 --> 01:39:09,359 seen that on any of my flat drawings 1939 01:39:09,359 --> 01:39:11,760 or anything when I bought the property. I did not even 1940 01:39:11,760 --> 01:39:13,840 realize it was 16 foot utility easement back 1941 01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:16,590 there. There's a lot of things and didn't goes on. I mean, 1942 01:39:16,590 --> 01:39:19,760 I deal with city, you know, utility 1943 01:39:19,760 --> 01:39:22,329 departments and everything else. And a lot of times you'll 1944 01:39:22,329 --> 01:39:24,000 find stuff that you don't find on these 1945 01:39:24,000 --> 01:39:28,239 flat drawings. So that's, you know, I think anybody else, 1946 01:39:28,239 --> 01:39:30,720 any questions that helps. Thank you very 1947 01:39:30,720 --> 01:39:33,930 much. And commissioner back. Did you have a question for 1948 01:39:33,930 --> 01:39:35,680 staff? No, that that's essentially 1949 01:39:35,680 --> 01:39:38,760 what I was going to ask Mike too. I would ask, is the 1950 01:39:38,760 --> 01:39:41,760 developer here tonight? Okay. 1951 01:39:43,039 --> 01:39:44,239 Would you care to speak, sir? 1952 01:39:53,119 --> 01:39:57,279 He mentioned the, um, the two stories looking down on him. 1953 01:39:57,279 --> 01:40:00,960 I don't have the rear. I just have the side in the front. 1954 01:40:10,960 --> 01:40:13,439 Basically what I was going to show is that they're actually 1955 01:40:13,439 --> 01:40:14,399 , um, 1956 01:40:15,119 --> 01:40:17,239 sir, if you could approach the microphone and state your 1957 01:40:17,239 --> 01:40:18,319 name and address for the record. 1958 01:40:18,319 --> 01:40:22,060 Kevin Dean, architect, um, for the project. Um, and 1959 01:40:22,060 --> 01:40:23,600 basically I was just going to show that, 1960 01:40:24,319 --> 01:40:27,569 if you look at the site plan, the angle portion here has a 1961 01:40:27,569 --> 01:40:29,359 window in it and then the, 1962 01:40:31,520 --> 01:40:33,939 and it's actually on this, this side. So it's facing 1963 01:40:33,939 --> 01:40:35,439 somewhat away from him. 1964 01:40:35,439 --> 01:40:38,390 And then this side has one facing north, but none of the 1965 01:40:38,390 --> 01:40:40,399 windows are directly facing his property. 1966 01:40:40,399 --> 01:40:44,239 So hopefully that helps alleviate some of his concern. If 1967 01:40:44,239 --> 01:40:46,479 there's any other questions. 1968 01:40:49,359 --> 01:40:51,479 Could you, could you say that again into the microphone for 1969 01:40:51,479 --> 01:40:52,239 the, so we can hear that? 1970 01:40:52,239 --> 01:40:54,239 Any other questions? No, I'm sorry. Oh, the whole thing? 1971 01:40:54,239 --> 01:40:55,520 Yeah. Start over. Yeah. 1972 01:40:55,520 --> 01:40:58,920 Basically there are two windows. One faces due north and 1973 01:40:58,920 --> 01:41:02,479 one faces kind of southwest, um, 1974 01:41:02,479 --> 01:41:04,859 somewhat toward his property, but none of the, none of the 1975 01:41:04,859 --> 01:41:06,479 facade facing his property has windows 1976 01:41:06,479 --> 01:41:11,569 directly looking at that property line. Basically. Thank 1977 01:41:11,569 --> 01:41:15,039 you. Oh, sorry. Commissioner Beck, 1978 01:41:15,039 --> 01:41:18,159 you had a question? Thank you, chair. The idea about the 1979 01:41:18,159 --> 01:41:21,439 fence, uh, any consideration on your 1980 01:41:21,439 --> 01:41:24,550 part about putting a fence up there or privacy fence? I 1981 01:41:24,550 --> 01:41:26,399 would assume you mentioned, um, helping 1982 01:41:26,399 --> 01:41:29,680 with the maintenance of it. I think that would help, um, 1983 01:41:29,680 --> 01:41:32,399 talk to the landowner and, uh, okay. 1984 01:41:32,399 --> 01:41:34,529 So y'all could probably get together and work something out 1985 01:41:34,529 --> 01:41:35,680 . I would think that would be, 1986 01:41:35,680 --> 01:41:38,149 that'd be great. A feasible option. That one little lot in 1987 01:41:38,149 --> 01:41:39,439 between where the pool was, 1988 01:41:40,479 --> 01:41:42,689 how are you going to assimilate that into this? And 1989 01:41:42,689 --> 01:41:45,039 basically we're just going to, it's, it's 1990 01:41:45,760 --> 01:41:49,069 fairly well treed basically. And our idea was just to leave 1991 01:41:49,069 --> 01:41:50,560 it alone and keep that green 1992 01:41:51,279 --> 01:41:53,319 as it is. It's got that old rickety. We don't own it, so we 1993 01:41:53,319 --> 01:41:54,560 actually can't do anything to it. 1994 01:41:55,199 --> 01:41:58,479 Okay. That's right. Okay. Thank you. No problem. 1995 01:41:58,479 --> 01:42:01,039 Commissioner Taylor? Thank you, chair. So a 1996 01:42:01,039 --> 01:42:05,640 follow up question on the fence, uh, as, uh, in order to, 1997 01:42:05,640 --> 01:42:07,920 to mitigate, you know, potential nuisance 1998 01:42:07,920 --> 01:42:10,289 to the neighbors there, I think we're, we're probably 1999 01:42:10,289 --> 01:42:12,239 leaning toward putting a requirement in 2000 01:42:12,239 --> 01:42:16,659 to the SUP to require a fence. Do you have, uh, would you 2001 01:42:16,659 --> 01:42:18,319 prefer a requirement for something like 2002 01:42:18,319 --> 01:42:20,890 a masonry fence or a wooden privacy fence of a certain 2003 01:42:20,890 --> 01:42:22,640 height or is there something that makes 2004 01:42:22,640 --> 01:42:25,170 it easier for you to? The client's always going to go back 2005 01:42:25,170 --> 01:42:27,039 to cost. What's most cost effective? 2006 01:42:28,159 --> 01:42:32,319 And whether or not does that need to run the full 420 feet 2007 01:42:32,319 --> 01:42:34,960 or is it just the extents of the building 2008 01:42:34,960 --> 01:42:39,880 footprint? Is there some way to reduce that? Yeah, I think 2009 01:42:39,880 --> 01:42:42,960 it would probably have to run at least 2010 01:42:42,960 --> 01:42:45,229 along the parking segment and the building segment. So it 2011 01:42:45,229 --> 01:42:48,239 would be, and it would probably end up just 2012 01:42:48,239 --> 01:42:54,029 being the entire west, uh, boundary there just for, uh, to 2013 01:42:54,029 --> 01:42:57,600 prevent, uh, misunderstanding in the 2014 01:42:57,600 --> 01:43:00,800 writing of the SUP. So is that, would that be objectionable 2015 01:43:00,800 --> 01:43:02,720 ? I would think he would consider 2016 01:43:02,720 --> 01:43:07,100 that. Yeah. Okay. I didn't hear the answer. I would think 2017 01:43:07,100 --> 01:43:10,000 that the client would, um, my client 2018 01:43:10,000 --> 01:43:19,810 would consider that. Thank you, sir. This is a public 2019 01:43:19,810 --> 01:43:22,479 hearing. If anyone would like to approach 2020 01:43:22,479 --> 01:43:25,579 the dais and speak, or if you prefer not to speak, if you 2021 01:43:25,579 --> 01:43:26,800 could fill out a card. 2022 01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:31,920 Yes, I did. Could you, we would like to see that. Thank you 2023 01:43:31,920 --> 01:43:31,920 . 2024 01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:41,590 Good evening. My name is Paul King. I live at 3112 Donner 2025 01:43:41,590 --> 01:43:44,640 Road, uh, next to Brent Duncan. 2026 01:43:45,680 --> 01:43:48,640 My principal concern for coming here this evening is based 2027 01:43:48,640 --> 01:43:51,600 on the increased population density that 2028 01:43:51,600 --> 01:43:55,119 Fourplexes would bring to the behind my house as well as 2029 01:43:55,119 --> 01:43:57,600 his. When it seems like right now, 2030 01:43:57,600 --> 01:44:01,069 although I didn't do a survey before coming, that a lot of 2031 01:44:01,069 --> 01:44:03,279 the properties are largely vacant. 2032 01:44:05,840 --> 01:44:06,560 And right now, 2033 01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:13,359 with Fourplexes leering over the fence, your own 2034 01:44:13,359 --> 01:44:17,039 photographs showed how dilapidated the ones that 2035 01:44:17,039 --> 01:44:21,239 are there are already, and they're being held to what a 2036 01:44:21,239 --> 01:44:23,840 less standard is, I think, to the home that 2037 01:44:23,840 --> 01:44:27,890 I live in. And that concerns me. They'll look all real 2038 01:44:27,890 --> 01:44:30,880 pretty new and polished and freshly painted 2039 01:44:31,920 --> 01:44:35,500 for ever so short of a period of time. And then they'll 2040 01:44:35,500 --> 01:44:37,439 turn into the eyesores that the ones on 2041 01:44:37,439 --> 01:44:41,920 the corner had become. And that concerns me. Uh, and those 2042 01:44:41,920 --> 01:44:44,159 are my principal concerns. 2043 01:44:46,720 --> 01:44:50,739 Okay. Any questions? I've lived there for 30 years. I'm the 2044 01:44:50,739 --> 01:44:51,680 second owner in the home. 2045 01:44:53,039 --> 01:44:57,109 And I've seen lots of things come and go in that area. And 2046 01:44:57,109 --> 01:44:58,399 I just don't think this is the 2047 01:44:58,399 --> 01:45:01,180 appropriate thing at this time. Is there a correct time for 2048 01:45:01,180 --> 01:45:02,800 this to happen? I don't know. 2049 01:45:03,840 --> 01:45:07,090 There may be a better plan to execute it possibly, but 2050 01:45:07,090 --> 01:45:09,119 those are my concerns. 2051 01:45:10,560 --> 01:45:12,829 Thank you. Okay. Looks like we've got a question for you 2052 01:45:12,829 --> 01:45:14,000 too. Commissioner Huntsman. 2053 01:45:14,000 --> 01:45:18,430 So just one quick question. Orient me. You are to the west 2054 01:45:18,430 --> 01:45:22,079 north of his, of his, of his property. 2055 01:45:22,079 --> 01:45:25,039 Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. 2056 01:45:29,039 --> 01:45:30,399 Thank you very much. Thank you, sir. 2057 01:45:32,960 --> 01:45:36,079 This is a public hearing. So you were certainly, if there's 2058 01:45:36,079 --> 01:45:37,119 anyone in the audience that would like 2059 01:45:37,119 --> 01:45:42,510 to speak on this item, welcome to approach the dais, the 2060 01:45:42,510 --> 01:45:46,560 podium rather. Anyone else? 2061 01:45:49,680 --> 01:45:52,039 Okay. So this is my first time sitting in the seat. Do we 2062 01:45:52,039 --> 01:45:53,600 close the public hearing now 2063 01:45:53,600 --> 01:45:55,720 and then move on to discussion? Okay. At this time I will 2064 01:45:55,720 --> 01:45:57,199 close the public hearing 2065 01:45:57,199 --> 01:46:00,000 and we will open it up for discussion. Commissioner Taylor. 2066 01:46:00,800 --> 01:46:06,100 Thank you, chair. I have a question for staff. I believe we 2067 01:46:06,100 --> 01:46:08,239 have a property owner within the 2068 01:46:08,239 --> 01:46:12,289 200 foot notification distance that is indicated opposition 2069 01:46:12,289 --> 01:46:15,199 or potential opposition. So I'd like 2070 01:46:15,199 --> 01:46:18,880 to just get perhaps from legal or from staff what that, 2071 01:46:18,880 --> 01:46:21,680 what implication that might have on any vote 2072 01:46:21,680 --> 01:46:26,329 for your city council. So there's only one property. I don 2073 01:46:26,329 --> 01:46:27,600 't have the actual percentage. 2074 01:46:27,600 --> 01:46:30,880 I'm going to rely on Mike. If it surpasses the 20% 2075 01:46:30,880 --> 01:46:31,840 threshold. 2076 01:46:31,840 --> 01:46:33,920 Well, it was just presented tonight. I don't have that 2077 01:46:33,920 --> 01:46:36,079 calculation. That will be super majority 2078 01:46:36,079 --> 01:46:38,989 per council if it is over 20%. But I will clarify, we will 2079 01:46:38,989 --> 01:46:41,199 need that written, it needs to be written 2080 01:46:41,199 --> 01:46:44,409 response. So we will need to get that from the off, from 2081 01:46:44,409 --> 01:46:47,119 the, the neighbor. And then we'll calculate 2082 01:46:47,119 --> 01:46:48,890 that prior to council to determine if the super majority is 2083 01:46:48,890 --> 01:46:50,800 required. Would it be possible for you 2084 01:46:50,800 --> 01:46:56,600 to bring up the display of the notification zones? So if we 2085 01:46:56,600 --> 01:46:59,520 , if we look at this, just so, 2086 01:46:59,520 --> 01:47:04,720 so everybody is aware, the city ordinances require a super 2087 01:47:04,720 --> 01:47:07,039 majority for any approval 2088 01:47:07,039 --> 01:47:11,220 whenever there is a 20% or greater of the property and 2089 01:47:11,220 --> 01:47:13,119 surrounding the project 2090 01:47:13,680 --> 01:47:17,859 opposes it. And so that's, that's why I'm asking these 2091 01:47:17,859 --> 01:47:21,359 questions. It would appear to my untrained 2092 01:47:21,359 --> 01:47:25,420 eye that the property directly to the west probably 2093 01:47:25,420 --> 01:47:28,720 accounts for more than 20% of the 2094 01:47:28,720 --> 01:47:33,109 surrounding properties around the project. And I definitely 2095 01:47:33,109 --> 01:47:36,239 understand the, the neighboring 2096 01:47:36,239 --> 01:47:40,210 property owners concerns about pollution, you know, nu 2097 01:47:40,210 --> 01:47:43,359 isance, you know, higher density and that can, 2098 01:47:43,359 --> 01:47:45,630 that can bring a lot of different nuisances. So when you 2099 01:47:45,630 --> 01:47:47,920 share a back fence with, you know, 2100 01:47:47,920 --> 01:47:52,159 a much higher density property type. On the other hand, 2101 01:47:52,159 --> 01:47:55,520 this area was zoned for apartments in 2102 01:47:55,520 --> 01:48:00,779 1975 or so, had, has had fourplexes on it since 1985, 30, 2103 01:48:00,779 --> 01:48:04,319 30 plus years. And so it's really hard 2104 01:48:04,319 --> 01:48:08,939 to say that fourplexes are not a, you know, congruent use 2105 01:48:08,939 --> 01:48:11,359 because it's in between two other 2106 01:48:11,359 --> 01:48:16,720 fourplexes. But I do think that whatever reasonable steps 2107 01:48:16,720 --> 01:48:19,439 we can take to mitigate any potential 2108 01:48:19,439 --> 01:48:23,899 nuisance to the neighbors to the west is very important. So 2109 01:48:23,899 --> 01:48:26,319 if, if the architect can speak 2110 01:48:26,319 --> 01:48:30,380 on behalf of the developer and accept a modification of the 2111 01:48:30,380 --> 01:48:33,199 SUP, or if we need to postpone for two weeks 2112 01:48:33,199 --> 01:48:36,619 and or until our next meeting until the owner can, can 2113 01:48:36,619 --> 01:48:40,319 speak on it. I think it is important for us 2114 01:48:40,319 --> 01:48:43,399 to at least have a requirement for a fence on that west 2115 01:48:43,399 --> 01:48:45,439 wall of a certain height and a certain 2116 01:48:45,439 --> 01:48:48,960 construction. And again, whatever, whatever that would be 2117 01:48:48,960 --> 01:48:52,239 that's most appropriate and protects 2118 01:48:52,239 --> 01:48:54,869 the neighbors to the west while meeting the needs of the 2119 01:48:54,869 --> 01:48:59,039 developer. Sure. I think my recommendation 2120 01:48:59,039 --> 01:49:02,750 to staff would be that if you feel that offense is 2121 01:49:02,750 --> 01:49:06,079 necessary, the architect has said that he may be 2122 01:49:06,079 --> 01:49:08,640 comfortable with that. We do have time between now and 2123 01:49:08,640 --> 01:49:10,399 council to meet with the actual owner. 2124 01:49:10,399 --> 01:49:13,260 And we can represent this to council and let them know that 2125 01:49:13,260 --> 01:49:14,880 this was a decision at P&Z. 2126 01:49:15,600 --> 01:49:18,109 We did meet with the owner and then he objects to that 2127 01:49:18,109 --> 01:49:20,079 condition at a later point. That way 2128 01:49:20,079 --> 01:49:22,640 council can make that decision. The reason I, the reason I 2129 01:49:22,640 --> 01:49:24,239 say that is because we do have a holiday 2130 01:49:24,239 --> 01:49:27,239 coming up and that postpones the timeline of this project 2131 01:49:27,239 --> 01:49:29,760 if we, if we table it. But certainly we 2132 01:49:29,760 --> 01:49:37,600 could probably do that. Commissioner Hudspeth. I have a, a 2133 01:49:37,600 --> 01:49:41,359 thought to the opposite of offense. 2134 01:49:41,359 --> 01:49:45,039 I'm okay with a buffer. Here's my concern. Understanding 2135 01:49:45,039 --> 01:49:48,960 the neighborhood, is it a privacy 2136 01:49:48,960 --> 01:49:56,060 fence or is it somewhere to hide? You know, so I think for 2137 01:49:56,060 --> 01:50:00,319 security reasons, I'm all for extra 2138 01:50:00,319 --> 01:50:05,699 trees, extra density, something, a productive tree. But I, 2139 01:50:05,699 --> 01:50:08,720 I, I would ask even the neighbor to the 2140 01:50:08,720 --> 01:50:12,279 west to kind of contemplate that if I'm in those apartments 2141 01:50:12,279 --> 01:50:15,439 and there's nowhere to hide, but for 2142 01:50:15,439 --> 01:50:20,510 this fence, I'm going to go hide behind the fence. And so I 2143 01:50:20,510 --> 01:50:23,439 think to have some level of visibility 2144 01:50:23,439 --> 01:50:26,539 where he could then from the west shine a light so that he 2145 01:50:26,539 --> 01:50:28,960 's protecting his, I mean, because if I'm 2146 01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:31,539 in an apartment, I've never seen a chicken before. So now I 2147 01:50:31,539 --> 01:50:33,119 see a chicken, I can go grab it. I can 2148 01:50:33,119 --> 01:50:36,060 hide behind the fence. I mean, it just, all kinds of bad 2149 01:50:36,060 --> 01:50:38,800 things can happen. In my, you know, and so I 2150 01:50:38,800 --> 01:50:43,229 really, I'm for the buffer, but I think maybe a tree or 2151 01:50:43,229 --> 01:50:46,960 something is more fitting for this scenario. 2152 01:50:58,000 --> 01:51:03,199 Commissioner Taylor. So seeing no more discussion, I'm, I'm 2153 01:51:03,199 --> 01:51:04,479 ready to make a 2154 01:51:05,279 --> 01:51:10,350 pretty flexible motion here. So I moved that the planning 2155 01:51:10,350 --> 01:51:12,800 zoning commission recommend approval to 2156 01:51:12,800 --> 01:51:18,409 city council with the added condition that a fence or 2157 01:51:18,409 --> 01:51:24,720 appropriate vegetative barrier be added along 2158 01:51:24,720 --> 01:51:29,850 the western side of the site in order to mitigate any 2159 01:51:29,850 --> 01:51:34,399 potential nuisance to the homeowners to the 2160 01:51:34,399 --> 01:51:38,369 west. And I understand that there's a utility easement that 2161 01:51:38,369 --> 01:51:40,399 's going to affect what can and 2162 01:51:40,399 --> 01:51:43,500 can't be planted there or built there. And that there are 2163 01:51:43,500 --> 01:51:46,239 potentially concerns from the developer 2164 01:51:47,680 --> 01:51:50,869 and that in this case, the, the neighbors have a fair 2165 01:51:50,869 --> 01:51:54,560 amount of power if they voice, 2166 01:51:55,760 --> 01:51:58,289 formally voice opposition to the project, because it will 2167 01:51:58,289 --> 01:52:00,560 require a super majority vote. 2168 01:52:00,560 --> 01:52:04,399 So hopefully we can, all sides can come together and find 2169 01:52:04,399 --> 01:52:06,640 an amenable solution. 2170 01:52:14,960 --> 01:52:16,380 Part, sir. I'm so sorry. The public hearing has been closed 2171 01:52:16,380 --> 01:52:20,560 at this point. Thank you. 2172 01:52:24,560 --> 01:52:27,079 Um, sorry, my request to speak button does not work for 2173 01:52:27,079 --> 01:52:29,439 some reason. I guess that's 2174 01:52:29,439 --> 01:52:32,960 it. That's right. It's conspiracy here. I know it's been a 2175 01:52:32,960 --> 01:52:34,479 while since I've been up here, but 2176 01:52:34,479 --> 01:52:36,800 I just wanted to add, clarify the motion you made 2177 01:52:36,800 --> 01:52:38,239 commissioner Taylor before. 2178 01:52:39,760 --> 01:52:42,029 Does that also include staff's recommendation? You made a 2179 01:52:42,029 --> 01:52:43,439 motion to recommend approval with 2180 01:52:43,439 --> 01:52:46,520 that added condition. Yeah, with the added condition on top 2181 01:52:46,520 --> 01:52:47,439 of staff's recommendation. 2182 01:52:47,439 --> 01:52:48,880 Okay. Thank you. 2183 01:52:51,279 --> 01:52:54,159 Commissioner Taylor, were you done with your, okay. So 2184 01:52:54,159 --> 01:52:55,520 commissioner Beck. 2185 01:52:56,399 --> 01:53:00,289 I second commissioner Taylor's very detailed and lengthy 2186 01:53:00,289 --> 01:53:00,720 motion. 2187 01:53:02,960 --> 01:53:04,880 Is there any discussion? Yes. Commissioner Roselle. 2188 01:53:05,840 --> 01:53:08,000 I have a question, maybe legal or staff can talk to this. 2189 01:53:08,000 --> 01:53:10,479 Although I appreciate the, 2190 01:53:10,479 --> 01:53:13,279 the motion, it seems really ambiguous to hold anyone to 2191 01:53:13,279 --> 01:53:17,039 that standard and what mutually gets 2192 01:53:17,039 --> 01:53:19,439 a relieving it to the client, the homeowner, what mutually 2193 01:53:19,439 --> 01:53:20,640 is agreeable, because that 2194 01:53:21,439 --> 01:53:25,659 might not be the, the best method. So I'm wondering if this 2195 01:53:25,659 --> 01:53:28,239 is the most helpful thing to leave 2196 01:53:29,039 --> 01:53:34,359 that barrier ambiguous for individuals to decide outside 2197 01:53:34,359 --> 01:53:36,640 council or even outside this commission. 2198 01:53:37,439 --> 01:53:40,010 I don't have an answer. I just, I'm concerned about the 2199 01:53:40,010 --> 01:53:40,720 ambiguity. 2200 01:53:45,920 --> 01:53:50,109 I, I didn't see in his, in his motion any ambiguity. What I 2201 01:53:50,109 --> 01:53:52,000 , what he mentioned was the 2202 01:53:52,000 --> 01:53:54,380 actual, the privacy fence that he once extended on the west 2203 01:53:54,380 --> 01:53:56,239 side or he's recommending for approval. 2204 01:53:57,840 --> 01:54:00,170 We have standards on how that privacy fence actually gets 2205 01:54:00,170 --> 01:54:02,079 constructed. So, 2206 01:54:03,600 --> 01:54:06,550 I know there was discussion early on about the both, you 2207 01:54:06,550 --> 01:54:07,359 know, the, 2208 01:54:07,920 --> 01:54:10,880 the homeowner who was up here along with the client that 2209 01:54:10,880 --> 01:54:12,479 the architect is representing to have 2210 01:54:12,479 --> 01:54:15,060 some private discussions on how maybe they can come up with 2211 01:54:15,060 --> 01:54:16,079 some type of feasible, 2212 01:54:16,079 --> 01:54:19,069 feasible solution to address those privacy concerns. That's 2213 01:54:19,069 --> 01:54:20,399 for them to discuss privacy, 2214 01:54:21,119 --> 01:54:23,899 privately outside this forum and they can do that. We're 2215 01:54:23,899 --> 01:54:26,399 not bound to them, but if they come up with 2216 01:54:26,399 --> 01:54:29,970 something, I'm, you as a board, as a commission or the city 2217 01:54:29,970 --> 01:54:32,239 council would gladly like to hear that. 2218 01:54:33,439 --> 01:54:38,060 But I, I guess I'm not, don't see the ambiguity that you 2219 01:54:38,060 --> 01:54:40,479 might be referencing unless something else. 2220 01:54:40,479 --> 01:54:43,279 I thought there was, there was an either or. Okay. 2221 01:54:43,279 --> 01:54:44,319 Commissioner Taylor? 2222 01:54:44,319 --> 01:54:47,239 Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I, I, in my motion I did say either 2223 01:54:47,239 --> 01:54:50,560 a vegetative barrier or a fence and I, 2224 01:54:50,560 --> 01:54:52,880 I wanted to do that. Normally we would specify, you know, m 2225 01:54:52,880 --> 01:54:54,640 asonry fence eight feet tall or wooden 2226 01:54:54,640 --> 01:54:58,220 fence seven feet tall or something like that. But in this 2227 01:54:58,220 --> 01:55:00,239 case, if there are concerns, if, 2228 01:55:00,239 --> 01:55:03,399 if a vegetative barrier solves a problem, so they basically 2229 01:55:03,399 --> 01:55:05,600 have two choices, a fence or a vegetative 2230 01:55:05,600 --> 01:55:08,930 barrier. And I was doing that. Normally we would vote on a 2231 01:55:08,930 --> 01:55:11,199 specific recommendation, but since this 2232 01:55:11,199 --> 01:55:14,489 is going to go to city council, I don't want to recommend 2233 01:55:14,489 --> 01:55:16,880 narrowly a fence if they come to resolution 2234 01:55:16,880 --> 01:55:20,180 on a vegetative barrier. Then maybe what you could do as 2235 01:55:20,180 --> 01:55:23,199 part of that motion or as part of the 2236 01:55:23,199 --> 01:55:25,640 discussion for staff to convey to council is that while you 2237 01:55:25,640 --> 01:55:27,439 may recommend, let's say the privacy 2238 01:55:27,439 --> 01:55:32,859 fence, you and the commission as a whole are not, you know, 2239 01:55:32,859 --> 01:55:36,000 would also approve of this other type 2240 01:55:36,000 --> 01:55:39,810 of a vegetative buffer if that, you know, if the applicant 2241 01:55:39,810 --> 01:55:42,079 and the home and the neighbor come to 2242 01:55:42,079 --> 01:55:45,420 that agreement. I, I, I see the, you know, the either or. 2243 01:55:45,420 --> 01:55:47,680 You would have to recommend one and then, 2244 01:55:47,680 --> 01:55:50,050 but there's nothing to prevent you from saying, but we also 2245 01:55:50,050 --> 01:55:52,159 find acceptable the other. 2246 01:55:52,159 --> 01:55:58,680 Can I clarify my motion or do I need to withdraw and rest 2247 01:55:58,680 --> 01:56:02,699 ate the motion? And I wish to apologize for Commissioner Ros 2248 01:56:02,699 --> 01:56:03,319 sell on that. 2249 01:56:03,319 --> 01:56:11,779 Okay, so let's start over. Go ahead. Legal if you could 2250 01:56:11,779 --> 01:56:18,460 walk me through what do I need to do? If I was a 2251 01:56:18,460 --> 01:56:21,140 Commissioner making a motion I would suggest something 2252 01:56:21,140 --> 01:56:21,640 along the lines of, 2253 01:56:21,640 --> 01:56:26,869 I recommend a motion to recommend to City Council to 2254 01:56:26,869 --> 01:56:31,960 approve this item with the following conditions. 2255 01:56:31,960 --> 01:56:38,789 So I withdraw my original motion and I move that we 2256 01:56:38,789 --> 01:56:46,760 recommend approval of this project to City Council with 2257 01:56:46,760 --> 01:56:49,640 staff's conditions and with the additional condition 2258 01:56:49,640 --> 01:56:53,029 that a privacy fence be constructed along the western 2259 01:56:53,029 --> 01:56:58,140 boundary of the development site and with the stipulation 2260 01:56:58,140 --> 01:57:02,039 that the commission would be amenable to a vegetative 2261 01:57:02,039 --> 01:57:05,640 barrier in lieu of a fence. 2262 01:57:05,640 --> 01:57:13,289 Commissioner Beck? I second that motion. Okay. We're all on 2263 01:57:13,289 --> 01:57:17,319 board here with this. Okay. Is there any discussion about 2264 01:57:17,319 --> 01:57:18,640 this before we vote? 2265 01:57:18,640 --> 01:57:39,640 Okay. I guess then we're going to vote on the board. 2266 01:57:39,640 --> 01:57:52,109 That motion passes 6-0. Thank you for your input tonight. 2267 01:57:52,109 --> 01:57:55,510 Our next item is Public Hearing 3C. Hold a public hearing 2268 01:57:55,510 --> 01:57:58,750 and consider a recommendation to City Council regarding a 2269 01:57:58,750 --> 01:58:01,640 specific use permit to allow a basic utility, 2270 01:58:01,640 --> 01:58:05,819 a Denton Municipal Electric substation on approximately 6.2 2271 01:58:05,819 --> 01:58:09,640 acres within a downtown commercial general DCG district. 2272 01:58:09,640 --> 01:58:11,329 The subject property is generally located at the southwest 2273 01:58:11,329 --> 01:58:15,140 corner of South Locust and West Collins in the city of Dent 2274 01:58:15,140 --> 01:58:15,640 on. 2275 01:58:15,640 --> 01:58:19,109 Thank you, Chair. Members of the commission, this is S1511 2276 01:58:19,109 --> 01:58:22,460 for DME Locust substation. As the Chair just stated, this 2277 01:58:22,460 --> 01:58:26,039 is a request for an SUP to allow a DME substation on 6.2 2278 01:58:26,039 --> 01:58:26,640 acres. 2279 01:58:26,640 --> 01:58:29,619 The site is located at the southwest corner of West Collins 2280 01:58:29,619 --> 01:58:32,739 Street and South Locust Street, shown here in yellow. To 2281 01:58:32,739 --> 01:58:35,800 the west, you have some commercial and industrial uses. To 2282 01:58:35,800 --> 01:58:38,640 the north, there are some single family units. 2283 01:58:38,640 --> 01:58:42,420 To the east is the railroad, and to the south is the 2284 01:58:42,420 --> 01:58:45,640 existing substation on Locust Street. 2285 01:58:45,640 --> 01:58:49,430 These are photos of the site as they exist today. To the 2286 01:58:49,430 --> 01:58:53,630 left, there's a fence separating, runs roughly right here 2287 01:58:53,630 --> 01:58:57,369 on the aerial. There's also what was an old auto repair 2288 01:58:57,369 --> 01:59:00,640 shop that has been demolished on the side. 2289 01:59:00,640 --> 01:59:04,210 To the north was the neighborhood I talked about. These are 2290 01:59:04,210 --> 01:59:07,430 the typical homes that are on those plots, as well as on 2291 01:59:07,430 --> 01:59:11,390 the corner of Locust and Collins. There is this site with 2292 01:59:11,390 --> 01:59:14,640 the large fence facing Collins Street. 2293 01:59:14,640 --> 01:59:18,539 The site is zoned Downtown Commercial General, as is the 2294 01:59:18,539 --> 01:59:22,739 surrounding area, which generally permits a downtown type 2295 01:59:22,739 --> 01:59:27,640 character, multi-family commercial, very high-intense uses. 2296 01:59:27,640 --> 01:59:30,449 This is the proposed site plan of the substation. It will 2297 01:59:30,449 --> 01:59:33,109 have two access points on Collins Street and two access 2298 01:59:33,109 --> 01:59:38,039 points on Locust Street. As I said in the work session, the 2299 01:59:38,039 --> 01:59:43,439 need for these drives are for large trucks that bring the 2300 01:59:43,439 --> 01:59:46,640 transformers onto the site. 2301 01:59:46,640 --> 01:59:48,909 They're very large trucks. They only come once for 2302 01:59:48,909 --> 01:59:51,279 construction, and then if they have an outage, they may 2303 01:59:51,279 --> 01:59:53,569 need to get the truck back in there, but it wouldn't be 2304 01:59:53,569 --> 01:59:55,640 typical that that truck would be on site. 2305 01:59:55,640 --> 01:59:59,239 And then as well, they will provide a 10-foot screening 2306 01:59:59,239 --> 02:00:02,630 wall around the perimeter of the site and some additional 2307 02:00:02,630 --> 02:00:04,640 landscaping along Collins. 2308 02:00:04,640 --> 02:00:07,720 This is an example of the type of wall that they've built 2309 02:00:07,720 --> 02:00:10,640 from other substations that would be used here. 2310 02:00:10,640 --> 02:00:13,239 This is a section of the street on Collins. You can see 2311 02:00:13,239 --> 02:00:18,390 they have a 10-foot wall, a 3-foot planning area, a 8-foot 2312 02:00:18,390 --> 02:00:24,640 sidewalk, and a tree, and then the back of the curb. 2313 02:00:24,640 --> 02:00:26,909 Considerations and staff recommendations is that subst 2314 02:00:26,909 --> 02:00:29,210 ations are essential to our infrastructure, and when it's 2315 02:00:29,210 --> 02:00:31,449 necessary to look at them in urban areas, we should 2316 02:00:31,449 --> 02:00:33,920 consider site criteria that provide the least impact on 2317 02:00:33,920 --> 02:00:35,640 surrounding properties. 2318 02:00:35,640 --> 02:00:38,970 To do that, they provide a 10-foot masonry wall, as well as 2319 02:00:38,970 --> 02:00:40,640 the enhanced landscaping. 2320 02:00:40,640 --> 02:00:45,140 Staff did send notice to 25 property owners within 200 feet 2321 02:00:45,140 --> 02:00:49,800 , and 79 notices to physical addresses within 500 feet. We 2322 02:00:49,800 --> 02:00:53,600 received three responses in favor from these areas in green 2323 02:00:53,600 --> 02:00:57,789 , this property and these two properties, and one that we 2324 02:00:57,789 --> 02:01:02,640 received today from a property on Collins in opposition. 2325 02:01:02,640 --> 02:01:05,550 Based on the considerations presented and what's in your 2326 02:01:05,550 --> 02:01:07,979 backup and the criteria for approval in the DENT 2327 02:01:07,979 --> 02:01:11,140 development code, staff does recommend approval of this SUP 2328 02:01:11,140 --> 02:01:13,810 subject to the conditions that, one, substation shall be 2329 02:01:13,810 --> 02:01:17,100 screened by a minimum 10-foot masonry screen wall, and two, 2330 02:01:17,100 --> 02:01:19,260 that the substation shall comply with the attached site 2331 02:01:19,260 --> 02:01:19,640 plan. 2332 02:01:19,640 --> 02:01:22,640 And with that, I'll stand for any questions. 2333 02:01:22,640 --> 02:01:24,640 Commissioner Rossell. 2334 02:01:24,640 --> 02:01:27,640 Thank you, Chair. I have two questions. 2335 02:01:27,640 --> 02:01:31,560 First, the current substation located to the south, what's 2336 02:01:31,560 --> 02:01:33,640 the future of that property? 2337 02:01:33,640 --> 02:01:35,640 I don't think that's been determined at this point. 2338 02:01:35,640 --> 02:01:36,640 Okay. 2339 02:01:36,640 --> 02:01:39,909 The second question is, if I understand the topography of 2340 02:01:39,909 --> 02:01:43,369 Denton, that's actually on a hill, an elevated area, but in 2341 02:01:43,369 --> 02:01:46,640 the backup it mentions that the towers might be up to 95 2342 02:01:46,640 --> 02:01:47,640 feet tall. 2343 02:01:47,640 --> 02:01:50,739 Is there already designs that they would be 95 feet above 2344 02:01:50,739 --> 02:01:54,000 property, or is that 90? I mean, I'm just wondering if it 2345 02:01:54,000 --> 02:01:56,329 will reach the capacity or if it will take into 2346 02:01:56,329 --> 02:01:59,380 consideration current topography in terms of how high those 2347 02:01:59,380 --> 02:02:00,640 towers would be. 2348 02:02:00,640 --> 02:02:02,229 I think generally it would be 95 feet from wherever they're 2349 02:02:02,229 --> 02:02:05,020 installed. If that's in a higher location, it would be 2350 02:02:05,020 --> 02:02:06,640 higher than 95 feet. 2351 02:02:06,640 --> 02:02:08,640 Okay. Thank you. 2352 02:02:08,640 --> 02:02:09,640 Commissioner Beck. 2353 02:02:09,640 --> 02:02:11,640 Thank you, Chair. 2354 02:02:11,640 --> 02:02:15,609 When they build the station, there will be more lighting on 2355 02:02:15,609 --> 02:02:20,640 Collins Street, correct? Will they be adding lighting? 2356 02:02:20,640 --> 02:02:23,500 No, typically the lighting that's provided on site is 2357 02:02:23,500 --> 02:02:24,640 oriented inward. 2358 02:02:24,640 --> 02:02:26,640 So there will be no additional lighting? 2359 02:02:26,640 --> 02:02:27,640 All right. 2360 02:02:27,640 --> 02:02:32,640 Okay. 2361 02:02:32,640 --> 02:02:36,640 Other questions for staff? 2362 02:02:36,640 --> 02:02:37,640 Okay. Thank you, Mike. 2363 02:02:37,640 --> 02:02:42,189 This is a public hearing. If anyone would like to speak for 2364 02:02:42,189 --> 02:02:44,220 or against this item, you're certainly welcome to approach 2365 02:02:44,220 --> 02:02:48,640 the dais, rather the podium, sorry. 2366 02:02:48,640 --> 02:02:55,220 Is there anyone that would like to speak for or against? 2367 02:02:55,220 --> 02:03:01,979 Okay. Seeing none, I will close the public hearing and open 2368 02:03:01,979 --> 02:03:07,640 it up for discussion among the commissioners. 2369 02:03:07,640 --> 02:03:10,149 Commissioner Beck, did you want to speak again? No? Just 2370 02:03:10,149 --> 02:03:11,640 hasn't gotten cleared off. 2371 02:03:11,640 --> 02:03:14,640 Oh, sorry. Hey, Frank, down there. 2372 02:03:14,640 --> 02:03:15,640 Commissioner Dudowitz. 2373 02:03:15,640 --> 02:03:20,550 Yes, I would like to make a motion to approve as submitted 2374 02:03:20,550 --> 02:03:21,640 by staff. 2375 02:03:21,640 --> 02:03:24,640 Commissioner Rossell. 2376 02:03:24,640 --> 02:03:26,640 I'd like to second the motion. 2377 02:03:26,640 --> 02:03:32,640 We have a first and a second. So any further discussion? 2378 02:03:32,640 --> 02:03:43,640 Okay, please vote on the board. 2379 02:03:43,640 --> 02:03:47,640 That motion also passes six zero. 2380 02:03:47,640 --> 02:03:50,720 Our next item is item four a the planning and zoning 2381 02:03:50,720 --> 02:03:52,640 commission project matrix. 2382 02:03:52,640 --> 02:03:54,640 Did you have something to add? 2383 02:03:54,640 --> 02:03:56,640 Yes, I did. Thank you, Commissioner Bruegel. 2384 02:03:56,640 --> 02:03:59,800 You have the planning and zoning matrix in your backup 2385 02:03:59,800 --> 02:04:00,640 material. 2386 02:04:00,640 --> 02:04:05,710 Unfortunately, we accidentally or inadvertently included a 2387 02:04:05,710 --> 02:04:07,640 previous matrix. 2388 02:04:07,640 --> 02:04:11,350 And if you recall, there were a couple of things that were 2389 02:04:11,350 --> 02:04:13,640 brought up at the last meeting. 2390 02:04:13,640 --> 02:04:17,579 I just wanted to apprise the commission that we will be 2391 02:04:17,579 --> 02:04:21,640 providing a presentation regarding perimeter street. 2392 02:04:21,640 --> 02:04:24,439 If you recall, that was a discussion that was raised by the 2393 02:04:24,439 --> 02:04:25,640 commission as well. 2394 02:04:25,640 --> 02:04:29,510 And also we will be having on January 26th, if I'm not 2395 02:04:29,510 --> 02:04:34,529 mistaken, the bike and pedestrian mobility component will 2396 02:04:34,529 --> 02:04:36,039 be presented to the planning and zoning commission, 2397 02:04:36,039 --> 02:04:36,640 understanding how it will be implemented. 2398 02:04:36,640 --> 02:04:39,550 And that will be done by the bike and pedestrian 2399 02:04:39,550 --> 02:04:42,640 coordinator, Julie Anderson with the city. 2400 02:04:42,640 --> 02:04:44,640 So we just wanted to apprise you of that. 2401 02:04:44,640 --> 02:04:48,640 At the next meeting, you will see the revised matrix. 2402 02:04:48,640 --> 02:04:53,640 Thank you. Thank you. 2403 02:04:53,640 --> 02:04:57,739 And that brings us to our final item or last time, if 2404 02:04:57,739 --> 02:05:00,069 anyone has any future agenda items they would like to 2405 02:05:00,069 --> 02:05:00,640 address. 2406 02:05:00,640 --> 02:05:03,640 The boards lighten up. Commissioner Rossell. 2407 02:05:03,640 --> 02:05:07,220 Thank you, chair. It was mentioned in the work session that 2408 02:05:07,220 --> 02:05:08,710 we could have DME come in and provide an update 2409 02:05:08,710 --> 02:05:11,640 presentation to the new commissioners. 2410 02:05:11,640 --> 02:05:14,949 So I'd like to put forth that just so that myself and other 2411 02:05:14,949 --> 02:05:18,680 commissioners perhaps would be interested in understanding 2412 02:05:18,680 --> 02:05:19,640 DME's work. 2413 02:05:19,640 --> 02:05:23,039 We will coordinate a date with them to see when they can do 2414 02:05:23,039 --> 02:05:23,640 that. 2415 02:05:23,640 --> 02:05:25,640 Thank you. 2416 02:05:25,640 --> 02:05:27,640 Commissioner Dedowitz. 2417 02:05:27,640 --> 02:05:30,640 Yes, just some information here, please. 2418 02:05:30,640 --> 02:05:33,619 When I was researching for another project, code of 2419 02:05:33,619 --> 02:05:37,220 ordinance for the planning and zoning commission powers and 2420 02:05:37,220 --> 02:05:39,640 duties, I ran across this, and I wasn't aware of this, 2421 02:05:39,640 --> 02:05:42,590 but we are allowed to make and recommend plans for the 2422 02:05:42,590 --> 02:05:46,069 clearance and rebuilding of any slum, districts or blighted 2423 02:05:46,069 --> 02:05:47,640 areas within the city. 2424 02:05:47,640 --> 02:05:52,710 I'd like to understand that process because I'm aware of 2425 02:05:52,710 --> 02:05:57,189 two such properties that were gas stations that had been 2426 02:05:57,189 --> 02:05:58,640 abandoned for 10 years 2427 02:05:58,640 --> 02:06:03,340 and now are in blight. They're falling down. They are 2428 02:06:03,340 --> 02:06:07,640 collecting debris and rodents and vagrancies. 2429 02:06:07,640 --> 02:06:10,850 So I would like to know the process by which we as a 2430 02:06:10,850 --> 02:06:15,560 commission address this and/or what else do we do in this 2431 02:06:15,560 --> 02:06:16,640 situation? 2432 02:06:16,640 --> 02:06:20,199 Because there are a number of other situations. There's 2433 02:06:20,199 --> 02:06:24,640 another property on the loop 288 just north of Spencer. 2434 02:06:24,640 --> 02:06:29,020 That house has been sitting there since that thing was -- 2435 02:06:29,020 --> 02:06:32,640 and again, it's falling apart and whatnot. 2436 02:06:32,640 --> 02:06:34,640 Thank you, Commissioner Dedowitz. 2437 02:06:34,640 --> 02:06:37,420 A couple of things. One, I'll double check the code that 2438 02:06:37,420 --> 02:06:39,640 you're reading and compare it to the DDC. 2439 02:06:39,640 --> 02:06:42,420 The second thing is we also have a health and building 2440 02:06:42,420 --> 02:06:45,180 standard commission that identifies if there are hazardous 2441 02:06:45,180 --> 02:06:47,640 buildings and what the procedure is for that. 2442 02:06:47,640 --> 02:06:48,640 We have a what, please? 2443 02:06:48,640 --> 02:06:51,010 We have a commission. It's called HABSCO, Health and 2444 02:06:51,010 --> 02:06:52,640 Building Standards Commission. 2445 02:06:52,640 --> 02:06:54,909 They are charged with the responsibility if there is an 2446 02:06:54,909 --> 02:06:56,739 unsafe structure to take it through the process to 2447 02:06:56,739 --> 02:06:59,640 determine if it can be -- if the situation can be remedied. 2448 02:06:59,640 --> 02:07:04,159 So I'll make sure that there's no conflict with what you've 2449 02:07:04,159 --> 02:07:07,630 read to me tonight and with HABSCO, and I'll give you some 2450 02:07:07,630 --> 02:07:08,640 detail on that too. 2451 02:07:08,640 --> 02:07:10,640 Just a follow-up for the rest of the commissioners. 2452 02:07:10,640 --> 02:07:11,640 Sure. 2453 02:07:11,640 --> 02:07:16,180 My business property on Bonnie Bray and University was next 2454 02:07:16,180 --> 02:07:19,640 door to an old restaurant called Captain D's. 2455 02:07:19,640 --> 02:07:23,289 And we had issues with rodents and vagrancy there and made 2456 02:07:23,289 --> 02:07:26,640 a complaint to the city, you know, seven, eight years ago, 2457 02:07:26,640 --> 02:07:27,640 and that was knocked down. 2458 02:07:27,640 --> 02:07:31,640 And now we have a better and a newer facility there. 2459 02:07:31,640 --> 02:07:34,640 So that's what caught my eye when I read this. 2460 02:07:34,640 --> 02:07:38,640 Thank you for bringing that to our attention. 2461 02:07:38,640 --> 02:07:40,640 Anything else? 2462 02:07:40,640 --> 02:07:41,640 Okay. 2463 02:07:41,640 --> 02:07:46,970 With that, I will close our meeting at 729 and thank you 2464 02:07:46,970 --> 02:07:49,640 all for being here tonight.