November the 18th. It's five o'clock and our meeting is du
ly posted and we have a
quorum present and our first order of business is to
receive a report on our
agenda items and I will turn that over to Manal for
presentation please. Thank
you Chairperson Strange. First item is the preliminary plan
for fireside perk
addition. I'm going to ask Julie Wyatt to present this.
Good evening. Okay y'all may
remember this project it was a zoning case earlier in the
year. For some of you
you may remember it was a zoning case earlier in the year.
They've now come
back and their preliminary platting and then you'll see a
final plat. There are
actually doing it in phases. Phase one and then phase two
will be second so it's
101 lots and I'll stand for any questions if you have them.
It is a gated
community in case you are. Commissioner Beck. Thank you
Chair. I just have one
question. How big are these houses? These lots look pretty
small. It meets the density requirements. Subchapter 5 does
allow for
instead of minimum lot size requirements a density
requirement for the zoning
district and it does meet them. I'm not quite sure what the
final product of the
houses will be but I think the intent is to have smaller
lots with more open
space that's community-owned. They've got walking trails
and more park
amenities and smaller lots. Has it been suggested that
these might be starter
homes? It's actually going to be an age restricted 55 and
older so I believe and
and I don't see the applicant here but I believe their
intent is to have an HOA
that maintains all the open spaces for all the lot so they
're more of a smaller
lot footprint. Thank you. Sure. Any other questions on this
item? Thank you Julie.
All right thank you. Thank you Julie. The next item is the
preliminary
plat of the courts of Bonnie Bray. I'm going to ask Mike
Bell, our senior planner,
to make this presentation. Thank you Manal. This is a
preliminary plat for the
courts of Bonnie Bray. It's a residential subdivision. We
are proposing I believe
106 residential lots kind of off South Bonnie Bray and
Island Park. Kind of
unique aspect of this plat is you'll see the future
excuse me expansion and realignment of Bonnie Bray here to
the west side of the
property. They have provided access to other residential
zone properties here
here as well as to the south and will connect to Highland
Park to the north.
I'll stand for any questions. Commissioner Beck. On the are
there it says
there's three existing drilling and production sites.
Correct. Can you show me all
three on this map because I can only locate two and I'm
sure they're all up here.
For the ordinance requires that any gas well drilling site
within a thousand feet
be marked on the plat. So we have one shown here. This is
an existing gas well
pad site. We have one here that has three existing wells
and approval for one more
and then we have one pad site that's not yet been developed
but it has been
approved as part of their gas well plat. Okay the fact that
it's been approved
then does that got to follow the reverse setback? I believe
it was approved prior
to the reverse setback being in place. Okay. So it follows
the rules of when it
was the gas well plat was approved. So it can be within 250
or it can be at 250 feet?
Yeah but it's actually meeting this. If you read the
dimension here I can zoom
into it but all these are exceeding the setback
requirements. They're getting
pretty close on this lot but they've they've kind of
designed it so that no
houses can be designed can be built there. Thank you. I
have a question.
Commissioner Roselle. Thank you. You mentioned that they
have the new Bonnie
Bray cut in. It looks like that new Bonnie Bray is gonna
hit that gas pad
site or is it set to move or what what happens in a
conflict area like that?
That's a good question. Earl do you have anything to add on
that? It could be that
it was it could be that it was purchased and then maybe
they're not they've
abandoned their plans to do that well but it is showing up
on their gas well
plat and so we made them reflected on on this plat. That's
correct. That would have
been handled during the right away acquisition process and
I'm sure I don't
know the legalities of what's involved and when they
purchased the right away
with a gas well plot being approved. There's no gas wells
located on it. Okay.
So potentially there wouldn't be an issue with like capping
out a gas well or
anything like that. There's no gas well facilities on this
on that pad side.
Thank you. Any other questions on this item? Thank you Mike
. Mike would you go
ahead and dive into the next preliminary plat for Villa Cad
ena edition please.
This is the preliminary plat Villa Cadena edition. This is
as part of the
McKinney-Dinton Apartments the SUP you saw just a bit ago.
This reflects their
act their two access points onto McKinney and their
internal drive that
matches their site plan that you reviewed several weeks ago
. Well, stand for any
questions if you have any. Thank you Mike. Thank you.
Seeing none I just wanted to
make the Commission aware of a calendar the Planning and Z
oning Commission
calendar for next year. It's for attach for your review and
consideration at
regular meeting. Additionally when we look at our public
hearing items, items A, B,
C have been withdrawn by the applicant and that being said
we do have a
final replant for Calhoun edition and I'm sorry Mike you
shouldn't have if Mike
could go ahead and present that for us too.
Since these have been withdrawn we're not doing any
continuation.
This will be FR 1516 it's the Calhoun edition. This is kind
of a mouthful but it is a
replant of three separate subdivisions the Mount second
edition, high school
edition, the Calhoun middle school edition and then a piece
of unplatted
property that's shown in the deed records. Texas local
government code
requires that any public hearing or that public hearing be
held for a replant
that's why we're here instead of on consent agenda. Also
this qualifies as a
residential replant because the zoning limits the property
to no more than two
units per lot or duplexes so that's why we sent written
notice to property
owners within the original subdivision and within 200 feet.
The site is shown
here in yellow. It's near the Pecan neighborhood there's
Carol here so it's
further to the east. This is Calhoun middle school right
here. These are the
Calhoun middle school tennis courts. They're included
within the plat. Give you
kind of a representation of where these plats are included.
The red is the high
school edition. It's kind of orange is the Calhoun middle
school edition. The purple
is Mount second and then the small 30 foot strip of unpl
atted land and we'll
see this is really the reason why this plat is happening
but I'll get into that
here in a minute. They're kind of it's kind of threefold
why we're here. One is
to subdivide that 30 foot strip shown here between the abut
ting property
owners. Two is to convey and subdivide a part of the Calh
oun middle school
addition to the property owners abutting to the north and
south and Lashley is to
establish new legal boundaries for the three lots on
Anderson Street that are
included in the plat. This is the zoomed in on a proposed
plat. It's got a lot
stuff going on so I'll kind of walk you through it very
quickly. Here's that 30
foot strip of unplatted land. Part of this is right away
dedication because it was
never officially dedicated. They're doing that at this
point. The reason we're here
is this property owner came in for a building permit. His
fence line is
actually shown here. It's been developed that way for
decades. Came in for a
permit for a driveway. We discovered that his plat didn't
match what his deed
showed and actually further investigation showed that Dent
on ISD
actually owned the strip of land. So we have a meeting with
Denton ISD and the
three property owners to the south. We all got together and
Denton ISD said
they didn't want it. They were willing to convey it over so
we had to
do the replat. Additionally they had a - I'm sorry let me
back up. So this is where
they agreed to divide it. Pretty much following the fence
line. The north 20
feet goes to the property owner on Amarillo Street and be
subdivided kind of
like this for the property owners to the south. Next the IS
D had a portion within
the Calhoun Middle School addition and also 30 feet but
they didn't want any
more either. So we met with the property owner to the north
. The property owner to the
south said do you want it? They said yes we do. So Denton
ISD has agreed to
divide that evenly. This reflects the alignment that
everybody agreed upon. And
then lastly the third purpose is according to the plat for
the Mounts
addition approved back in the 19 teens the property lines
are actually kind of
here where this blue is and they've been built and sold
over time into three lots
and so now we're just correcting that and we'll move the
property lines to
where they're currently reflected in the deeds. Final
product looks something like
this here. This will be the property lines. Reflects
current development.
This reflects the agreement everybody had with the ISD and
adjacent property owners.
Because it meets all the requirements we will be
recommending approval. I'll
stand for any questions. Commissioner Beck. Just one
question it says the ISD
agreed to convey the disputed property so they're just
giving it to them.
They're selling it to the price to file the deed I think is
five dollars. Five
dollars? Okay. Thank you. Thank you Mike. Commissioner Br
ito hold on just a second. Thanks Chair.
No I really honestly it's just a comment more than a
question. I was having such
a hard time trying to figure out what this case was about
so thank you for
this excellent staff presentation. It was curious. Thank
you. This is one of the more complex plans.
Anybody else? Thank you Mike. Thank you. Commissioners if
you recall we had a work
session to discuss amending the Denton Development Code to
add assembly halls,
clubs and lodges as a list of zoning uses within our Denton
Development Code. If I
can ask Julie Wyatt to just give you a brief a briefing on
that just to refresh
your jogging memories. All right so the request before you
tonight is to consider
making a recommendation to City Council regarding an
amendment to the Denton
Development Code for the assembly halls, clubs and lodges
to add that to the list
of permitted of uses in subchapter 5 and then also revise
the definition for
semi-public halls, clubs and lodges. Just a bit of
background if you recall in the
over the last year or so staff has been approached by
several individuals
developers to develop facilities to accommodate private
functions in more
rural or non-commercial type areas. This type of use could
include private events
such as weddings, banquets, meetings. The activities
associated with the use
typically involve catering, alcohol sales and for on-site
consumption and then and
typically they're live or recorded entertainment of some
type. The Denton
Development Code does not have a use that accurately
describes these
activities. So in our previous discussion about it we've we
talked about revising
and existing use and that use the semi-public halls, clubs
and lodges. This
use includes all of those activities that are associated
with the typical
assembly hall but but this use limits it only to nonprofits
. So staff is
recommending that we remove that nonprofit portion of it
and retain and
also and rename the use to assembly halls, clubs and lodges
and just keep the
structure facility owned or operated for special education,
educational or
recreational purposes. This will encompass all of those
activities but it will
broaden who can take take advantage of this use not only
not for profits but
for-profit entities as well. We're also recommending that
the use be treated in
the same manner as the existing semi-public halls, clubs
and lodges. So
for instance in our rural districts it would be not
permitted in RD5 but
permitted in rural commercials. It would be permitted in NR
1 through NR6 with an
SUP, NRMU 12 with a limitation and then NRMU it would be
permitted by right.
Staff feels that this retaining this specific use permit
requirement is very
important in the residential areas. It allows additional
scrutiny for the use so
if they if someone wanted to come develop an assembly hall
club or lodge
within more of a residential area or a rural well low or
high or low density
residential they would have to submit for a specific use
permit and that use
would staff would review it we would follow the zoning
procedure so it would
come to you for a recommendation and then it would go to
City Council for
approval and it would allow us to look at the intensity
that they want to use
the property for the scale of any buildings architecture
landscaping
lighting any of those uses or any of those activities or
development of the
property that could potentially create a nuisance for
adjacent property owners are
not being keeping with the with the land use pattern so it
would allow us to give
a little more scrutiny to that use. Downtown would be
permitted by right and
community mixed use would be permitted by right. Regional
mixed use permitted and
employment centers and industrial would be permitted. So
based upon our
discussions and staff analysis we do recommend approval of
this code
amendment and I'll stand for any questions.
Thank you Julie.
The last item on our work session is to discuss the City of
Denton's mobility
plan I'm going to ask PS to come forward and update the
Commission.
Excellent. Thank you. Thank you.
Okay we had covered a lot of items already and last week on
Friday, Wednesday
in the special call meeting I had we had gone through and
looked at some other
items there are some questions that came up after the
meeting from Mr. Bentley and
I had responded to them there are three items I wanted to
talk about so we are
ready for days in the public hearing later on. The first
one is the post-doc
option and second will be the Collins Rainier Road
extension and what I have
given you is a code order which I found it you know it was
ten years back and
I'll go through that in a minute and then the last one was
the Golden Circle
Cooper Creek Road extension which is in the north part
north of loop 288 in that
part of the city. So I'll go through all of them quickly.
Are we able to see it properly? Okay.
So on post-doc road in the last week's discussion on
Wednesday we agreed that
we were going to go and use the option A which is what I
have in my write-up as
part of the recommendation because this goes in a green
field right now there is
some development here and we will not be cutting through
that. We will not be
using you know this option that is shown right here. So
that's the post-doc. The
second one is the issue.
And larger a little more so we I can see it a little better
. Yeah. Okay.
What you have in front of you is the code order that
basically city of Den
Den County agreed on closing off this crossing on Collins.
That was done so
that city could get a crossing in the southern part that's
how they work and
there's a lot more back and forth that happened at that
time. There was issues
of annexation and I don't believe city agreed to not annex
the property sometime
in the future but it's been ten years since that was agreed
on in the
Commissioner's Court. It used to be in the county and it
still is in the county
since it is not annexed. So what we have done is we took
away that extension of
Lakeview going north this way and also we took away this
Laney Road that was
going to come back and tie in here into Collins. So Collins
stays as it is no
change in the way it is right now. So that takes care of
that comment we got
from Mr. Bentley and we have actually supporting document
to show that yes
that is correct. During when we were doing this the team as
well as it goes
around it went in the city hall and people looked at it
sometimes you say it
you still don't see it. So it kind of came you know this
far out but thanks for
pointing it out and I did some research and we were very
quickly were able to
find it surprisingly. And then the last item that we had
was on this golden
circle and Cooper Creek Road. Yes it any extensions we do
in the city anywhere we
do it's going to go through a property. It can be a you
know very large tract of
land or it can be lots of small parcels of land but it will
go through some
property. This as we know you know is a very long-term
connection right here it
could be 20 years or 30 years before this happens. Things
change during that
time things change in the families at that time. We have
seen properties that
you know we purchased for our you know wastewater use which
was in the country
club road that went through you for the SUP and it was all
in the family the
families all over the country right now and we had to kind
of get everybody
together to buy that out. Who knows what will happen here
in the future. So as
part of the master plan we need to kind of account for
based on the land use
what is projected based on the land use based on the model
that we did. We do
have you know only we have 6,000 trips on Cooper Creek Road
that we show. On this
road majority of the trips are generated based on the land
use the development
that will happen here about a thousand trips. Do we need to
absolutely show it? I
can take it off if that is the Commissioner's direction you
know to move
this out we can take it out. Whenever they come in at that
time you know they
will need a collector road at that time whenever they
develop the property. It's
going to happen. So it's either way it's your call on that
one and since only we
show about a thousand trips on this right now which can be
accommodated on
Hartley Field Road or it can be accommodated on Cooper
Creek Road. But
whenever they develop they will need a collector within the
property at that
time. Yes I have a quick question for the benefit of the
Commissioners as well as
the audience. The exhibit that you're showing us isn't not
reflected in the
packet correct? Yes I need to clarify that. Right so that
when we get to the
point of recommendation the Commission is clear on what.
Right what I'm going to
show what you have in the packet calls this and it was my
fault. I was doing
this at probably 10 o'clock in the night on Thursday had to
be out by Friday
morning and I made it option A and B instead of calling it
option two and
three. So it reflects A and B matching to the AIS that you
have in your packet
and then it does not have this Collins connection. I mean
what we have shows the
Collins connection and this one doesn't because we found
that just like in a
matter of I think it was yesterday I was working on it
finally got that actually
that's when I got the information on it. So when we
actually vote it will be
based on this map that shows everything correctly which I
'll be presenting in
the public hearing later on. So if there any questions I'll
be happy to answer.
Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you Chair. So PS just to be
clear then option one is
not an option. When we're looking at this tonight and
making a
motion option one is off the table. That's fantastic thank
you. And so
then where option A and B eventually kind of go west and
then north again. Can
you kind of zoom up on the north side of that I kind of
want to see where that
road goes. I'm curious if it will affect any future plans.
Go north please.
Oh north I'm sorry. More? I just want to kind of keep yeah
so north I just want to
see where it connects and I was just wondering if it is
going to interfere
with any future plans for the expansion of Clear Creek. I
think don't they have
plans for expanding their facility at some point in the
future. The plant itself?
The plant sits right here. We own this property this sits
right here in this
area. And so the one that's further west isn't going to
interfere with any future
plans that they have to expand Clear Creek? No this one.
Okay. This is way
outside and we are and we own this property kind of in this
area right here.
That's about 206 acres roughly. Okay thank you. And then
can you go down last
week we were talking about the the name of the road escapes
me but it was on the
south side we're looking at trying to build a bridge over
and we were
determining is that what it was? The Hickory Creek Road
connection arterial
right here. Yeah.
So that is included as an option? Yes it is. This evening.
Okay. I'm sorry. Yeah
that's the one. Thank you. I was wondering what happened to
my option. Yeah this is this is part of the
recommendation. In fact if I show you the PowerPoint right
here.
Recommendation says that to approve the make recommendation
to approve the travel
demand model which was the basis of all of the update we
did and update the
mobility plan with option A for post-hoc road and the
addition of the Hickory Creek
arterial option. Thank you.
Commissioner Dudowitz. Yes. Yes I read the your responses.
Yes. To citizen Bentley's
remarks and concerns. I see where you've laid you suggested
that the consultants
used an incorrect layer the map has been corrected and
there were a number of
other corrections made. My concern is are there any other
errors that we have not
been really looked at hard and how would that affect this
plan? Are there any
other errors or have you now reviewed everything? We try to
. It's still a
master plan and master plans are master plans. They over
time as work is done we
find things and then we come back and correct them. Just to
give you example on
the wastewater master plan we started that in 2008 and we
still continue to
find things that we keep going back and correcting it. So
this is still a
representation you know what you have is a representation.
It is not a design.
Whenever we get to that you get the final street on in the
road at
that time. I guess my concern still is that it takes a
citizen to find these
errors that we have professionals that and consultants that
we pay good money
to to do it the job right. Yeah these days there's so many
layers that they work with.
It happens that they can miss turning on a layer or turning
off a layer like on
the ETJ area. They had not turned off the ETJ part so it
showed as a part of the
city. So that was you know in the map that I have now it
shows as in an ETJ
area it's not in the not in the city limits. So that was
corrected.
Hartley Field Road the label was moved to the existing road
and not in so the
proposed road is still a continuation of that. That's minor
stuff. So most of this
and any other corrections are minor in the sense that it
should not impact us
in the next five years until we look at it again?
Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you.
Any other questions? Thank you. Sure. Commissioner Rossell.
On item four, items
for individual consideration, what's the process? Do we
vote on a calendar? Is
that for feedback? Can you walk me through as a new
individual how the
calendar gets developed and what are we considering or what
does the individual
consideration mean to Commissioner? So this calendar
determines the schedule
for next year's PNC meetings and it is an opportunity for
the PNC
commissioners to review the calendar if they're comfortable
with it should they
have questions related to dates if they want to change any
dates that are
glaring at them right now you have the opportunity to do
that and then the
agenda gets approved so that we can post it on the website
and do our dates
accordingly as it relates to notification requirements and
publications.
Correct me if I'm wrong this 2015 we had PNC on the first
Wednesday and third
Wednesday generally? Generally there was some disconnects
with that calendar
however it is supposed to be the second and fourth. It's
supposed to be the
second and fourth? Yes. Okay that's I saw a discrepancy.
Yes absolutely right. Okay
thank you for the clarification. On that subject the only
date that I saw that
might be a concern I think there's a meeting on the
Wednesday before
Thanksgiving. I remember right. Correct and this is the
opportunity to we can
cancel the meeting or we can schedule something before
prior to or move it to
the 30th because we're not meeting the first week of
December so that yes we
can do that then we miss out on we miss out on our
Thanksgiving party then I
guess. Right. No turkey sandwiches before. Correct. Is
everybody okay with that
change? Just to clarify. Instead of the November 23rd we're
going to move it to
November the 30th. And are we would we really be meeting on
December 28th?
Why not? I can count ten good reasons. Because don't I mean
don't normally we
take like the last half of December. It's my understanding
that in the past
then that's how it has been done however if you look at the
calendar and you look
at the dates and the fact that we have to do our
notifications in order and not
have any disconnects with that I made the call to reflect
that date there it is
the choice of the Commission to either decide not to have
that meeting or to
change the date. It is the 28th which is quite a few days
ahead of everything the
festivities. Okay. You want to remove it? It's hard to see
a year in advance but
typically kids are out of school and it's pretty good
vacation time. That's what
I'm thinking. So I may not be here for that one but it's a
year it's a year out.
Y'all have fun. What's a vacation? So we're gonna leave it?
To that point if we
don't cancel it now at any point can we bring it under the
agenda to reconsider
or could it be like it just when we get to the 27th Jim
just sends out an email
saying. We're not meeting. No because we have to what if we
have applicants who
want to be scheduled on that meeting for public hearing so
I would recommend or
advise that we either I would like to meet that date either
ahead or after I'm
sorry Jennifer. I was just gonna suggest you take it off.
Maybe Manal could explain
you mentioned maybe the importance of it what was the
justification? If we keep
this on and you adopt this schedule you approve this
schedule then applicants
developers homeowners whoever is involved in a public
hearing process
will be tied to these dates so they will be if we have a
notification
requirement and they see this date scheduled then we would
have to have this
but prior to that you said looking at the dates and for
consideration was
there the thing sorry the thing you first said about this
right so we have
when we create our schedule for the PNZ and City Council
meetings we also have
to take into consideration our public hearing notices that
have to go on
because there's a process for those two for public hearing
notices we have to
publish within the newspaper 17 days in advance we also
have to send out
property owner notices 12 days in advance of the meeting
published meeting
so either we change the date or you eliminate the meeting
tonight. Sorry
Commissioner. I think we eliminated Commissioner Detilas.
Two questions or
two comments do we know what City Council agenda is for
that week? I am I
have not I've seen the calendar I don't know what okay if
there and I noticed
that this December we are not sitting at that time so then
let's just cancel it
now. Okay. Commissioner Back. Are we talking about December
of next year? Yes. Well so sounds like some are
considering eliminating the 28th altogether okay and just
have the one
PNZ meeting for the month? Which would be the 14th of
December. We can do like we've done
last week if we get into a situation and there's a big item
that needs to be
dealt with we can always schedule a meeting like we did
last week it was a
special call meeting and I think let's at least at this
point let's take it off
and we'll see what it looks like next November. Okay so for
clarification
November 23 is moving to November 30th December 28th is
being cancelled all
together. I would agree with that. Am I else okay with that
? Yes. Okay. Commissioner Rossell you have another? No, no,
no, thank you. Merry Christmas
Commissioner Bruegel. I guess the only other item I had
made note of is on the
minutes we've had a couple of different corrections and I
know Commissioner
Husband in here but Commissioner Bruegel were you okay with
those corrections or
did you get a chance to review the minutes? Yeah I was okay
with the
corrections I think there were I had two questions though
about the minutes on
the 21st is now a good time to go over them? We've got time
today. Thank you. Just
give me one second here to just collect my thoughts I
usually look at the
minutes first so it's been a couple of days since I've
looked at them again. If
we want to take a break and get our food and then come back
to that we can do
that too. No I think I got it. Thanks. Yeah okay so October
21st page 4 lines 28
to 31. 28 through 31. Mm-hmm. So my question was about if
there's an
HOA that's not a gated community what those what those HOA
fees go to and I'm
not quite sure that was clear in the minutes. It's a line
29 says Commissioner
Bruegel questioned what the homeowners Association fees are
applied to if
they're not applied to street maintenance. I'd just like to
make that
clear those HOA fees for not not gated communities yeah and
then there was one
more. Oh yeah on page 9 the paragraph about Nottingham
Drive so between lines
11 through 14 it says that since Nottingham Drive is
planned to be one of
the downgraded streets she questioned if there are any
plans to calm traffic on
that street. PS stated that staff will complete a traffic
study and will make
any changes necessary based on the results of the study but
I understood
that conversation and correct me if I'm wrong that the
neighborhood would
actually have to request the changes to be made that the
city wouldn't go in and
automatically make those changes but that if the
neighborhood requested them
then engineering would look into that. Correct. Is that
what you all remember?
It's initiated by the neighborhood. So we'll add that in
there. Okay those are my
only changes to the minutes. Thank you.
Anybody else have comments or changes questions on the
minutes? I just wish we
get the minutes you know so we're not backed up again in a
sense of getting
them you know four weeks six weeks later yeah unless there
was corrections with
other than that. It's hard to remember everything back then
. Right. Okay well I
think that covers all the items that we have on our work
session and then also
the items for our public meeting this evening. Do we want
to just go ahead and
close the work session I guess at this time? Okay so at 540
we are going to
close our work session and then we'll reconvene in council
chambers at 630.
Thank you.
Good evening and welcome to the November 18th City of Dent
on Planning and Zoning
Commission meeting. Our meeting has been duly posted and we
have a quorum
present and it is 631. Our first order of business is to
stand for the pledge
of the US and the Texas flags.
Our next item on our agenda is going to be considered
approval of the our
minutes. The chair would entertain a motion.
Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you chair. I had just a couple
of corrections that we
went over in the work session so with those I move approval
of the minutes.
Commissioner Dudowitz. I second. Okay any discussion?
We have a first and a second and I will call for a vote on
the board.
We're having some technical difficulties so we'll resort to
the old-fashioned
we'll do a show of hands. All those in favor raise your
right hand aye. All
those opposed same sign. So the motion carries six to zero.
Our next item is our
consent agenda. Chair would entertain a motion on the
consent agenda.
Commissioner Rossell. I motion to approve the consent
agenda. Commissioner Dudowitz.
I second. Any discussion? The first and the second we'll
call for a vote on the
board.
Motion passes six to zero. That will move us to our public
that will move us to
item number four our consider our planning and zoning
Commission calendar
for 2016.
Commissioner Dudowitz. I approve with the with the
adjustments that we made in
work session moving to November 24th meeting scheduled to
the 30th of
November and the elimination of December 20 28.
Commissioner Beck. Thank you I
second the motion the motion. Any discussion? Seeing none
we will call for
a vote on the board.
Technical difficulties are back so we'll go back to a hand
vote all those in
favor raise your right hand aye. All those opposed same
sign none that motion
carries six zero. That moves us to our public hearings for
this evening. We have
first three items A B and C have all been withdrawn by the
applicant. We did
have one card Mr. Frank Mayhem or may who I'm sorry that
those were withdrawn
from the applicant so when those are rescheduled please
keep an eye on our
calendar and we would be happy to well we don't have
control over that the
applicant has done that I apologize we're not in control
that is this
Commission but we do invite you back when those are resched
uled I'm sorry sir.
I'll ask staff to speak to that sir. Thank You Chairperson
Strange the item S
one one five zero zero one six C has been withdrawn
completely at this point
we are not aware of when or if it will be rescheduled or
come before the
Commission at this point however if we do if it is revived
so to speak it has
been withdrawn but if it is revived then we will send out
notification again thank
you and should you have any questions of us please give us
a call thank you sir
thank you again sorry
due to the number of well I'm back up we're going to move
now to item D and we
will hold that as as it is shown on our agenda and at this
time the chair is
going to open the public hearing and ask for a presentation
on item D thank you
Chairperson Strange Mike Bill the planning department
senior planner will
make this presentation this project is fr 1516 for the Calh
oun edition the
request is a bit of a mouthful but it's essentially a repl
at for three separate
subdivisions the Mount second edition the Calhoun Calhoun
middle school
edition the high school edition and a small strip of unpl
atted property and in
the deed records of Denton County section 212 of the Texas
local government
code requires a public hearing for any replat that is not
done that is not
pretty subdivision that is not first vacated it also
requires a written
notice of the public hearing be provided to property owners
in the original
subdivision and those have been 200 feet if the area being
replatted is
restricted or zoned for no more than two units per lot or a
duplex within the
previous five years this property is zoned for single-
family and qualified
for residential replat this is the location of the property
here it's
located near the pecan neighborhood Carroll Boulevard is
here this is Calhoun
middle school you see the Calhoun middle middle school
tennis courts are included
in the property and a number of single-family properties as
well as I
said before this is three separate subdivisions you have
the high school
edition in red the Calhoun middle school edition in orange
Mount second edition
in purple and this yellow strip here is a 30-foot unplatted
land which I
mentioned before and about a macro level there are three
reasons why we're here
tonight the first is to subdivide part of that 30-foot
strip shown here between
the budding property owners secondly there's additional 30
feet within the
Calhoun middle school addition that the DISD wish to convey
to the adjacent
properties in the north and south and lastly to establish
new legal boundaries
for three lots along Anderson and I'll go into a little
more detail this is the
zoom in of the proposed plat there's a lot going on so kind
of walk you through
it here very quickly this is that 30-foot strip that I
mentioned earlier
the reason we're here is the owner of this property to the
north came in for a
permit to redo the house and with that a driveway that
driveway was located in
the area in yellow the review of that permit we determined
that his plat did
not match and further investigation showed that it was
actually owned by
didn't ISD so we held a meeting with didn't ISD and the
adjacent property
owners to the south who are also along that strip at that
meeting didn't ISD
agreed to convey that property to those owners in a way
that reflected the
current development pattern in the area so as a result
these are essentially the
new property lines being created here giving them 20 feet
the property owner
to the north and roughly 10 feet to the property owners to
the south also didn't
ISD had another strip of land within the Calhoun Middle
School addition that they
no longer found necessary and they were we asked if these
two property owners to
the north and south would like to have it they said yes
they would so the
second part of this we're going to subdivide it roughly
here equally
between the two and then lastly the third part of this is
according to the
plat done back in the early 1900s this was actually
originally four lots shown
by the lines in blue over the decades those lines are kind
of reconfigured
through meets and bounds the plat was never adjusted
accordingly so as part of
this we're going to clean up those property lines to where
they are now
according to their deeds which is roughly here so to go
from four lots to
three lots there are three houses and there have been three
houses for many
decades in the end we'll get kind of a product like this
where these will be
the boundary lines within the plot as it does mean all the
technical
requirements of our development code staff recommends
approval and I'll stand
for any questions commissioner Roselle thank you chair can
you go back to the
location map at the very start of your presentation you've
identified an
unplatted strip of land that crosses over Amarillo Street
to the west is there
a reason that that's not being addressed at this time is
this going to remain
on unplatted we actually held a neighborhood meeting with
everybody in
that block and that property owner as well requesting if
they wanted to to
join in on this application they chose not to at this time
is there any
implications to them for not doing that if their deed doesn
't align with the
plot for that homeowner yes they may have the same
situation as the property
owner within this one did where they couldn't get a
driveway permit until
they rectify the issue we made that known they still were
not comfortable
joining in thank you
no other questions for staff okay this is a public hearing
anyone that would
like to speak on this item is welcome to come down at this
time please fill out a
yellow card if you would like we're waiting on that we did
have one card
from Bill Coleman in support of this and he did not wish to
speak in public
hearing anyone else would like to speak on this before we
close the public
hearing seeing none we will close the public hearing on
this item
Commissioner back I move we approve the final plan on this
Commissioner Dudowitz I second the motion okay any
discussion
seeing none we'll call for a vote on the board
motion carries six zero we're going to make a adjustment to
our agenda we're
going to be moving item F ahead of item E due to the length
of the presentation
so we will move now to open the public hearing for item F
thank you chairperson
strange I will request Julie Wyatt with our planning
department to make this
presentation good evening Julie Wyatt associate planner
with the city of Denton
tonight I'm presenting to you a code amendment or proposed
code amendment the
request is to consider making a recommendation to City
Council regarding
an amendment to the Denton development code to add assembly
halls clubs and
lodges to the list of zoning uses in subchapter 5 and also
revise the
definition for semi public halls clubs and lodges in subch
apter 23 the reason
that we're discussing this tonight is because over the last
year or so staff
has been approached by several entities as well as
applicants wanting to
develop facilities to accommodate private functions in more
rural or
residential or non-commercial areas the uses that would
this would encompass
would be private events such as weddings meetings banquets
the activities
associated with it would include catering alcohol sales for
on-site
consumption and typically live or recorded music some sort
of entertainment
the Denton development code does not have a definition or a
use that
adequately describes this these types of activities for a
for-profit entity so we
discussed this in a previous work session the Denton
development code does
have a definition for use that encompasses those activities
of
catering rental hall banquet facility and that's semi
public halls clubs and
lodges but they only limited these activities to non for
not-for-profit entities
so in order to broaden the types of applicants or people
who could use this
definition and this use staff is recommending that we
remove the
non-for-profit portion of this definition and also and also
redo the
term to be assembly halls clubs and lodges as a structure
or facility owned
or operated for special educational or recreational
purposes once again this
still encompasses those same activities that were in the
previous definition but
it just broadens who can use it we're also recommending
that this use be
treated in the same manner as the existing semi public
halls clubs and
lodges so for our rural areas it would not be permitted in
RD5 but it would be
permitted in rural commercial sorry for our residential
zoning districts in our
one through in our six we're recommending it to stay as an
SUP and
then in our MU 12 would be a limitation in our MU it would
be a permitted use in
staffs analysis of this code amendment we felt that the SUP
and in retaining
that within our residential zoning districts was important
because a use
that requires an SUP is a use that may be permitted in the
zoning district but
additional scrutiny would be required in order to make sure
that that use does
fit in with the existing character of the area as well as
the land use pattern
so for for the in our one through in our six subchapter six
would apply to the
use and that would be additional criteria for approval it
would go through
the public hearing process and there could be conditions
placed upon the use
such as limiting the scope of the use limiting the hours of
operation those
types of things to mitigate any nuisances and to make it
compatible with
the surrounding area in our downtown zoning districts a
permitted use our
community mixed use districts permitted regional mixed use
permitted employment
centers and then also industrial centers permitted as a
semi public halls clubs
and lodges so staff does recommend approval of this code
amendment and I'll
stand for any questions
thank you this is a public hearing anyone who would like to
speak on this
item please come forward at this time I do not have any
cards on this item yet
yes a public hearing if anyone would like to speak on this
item please come
forward at this time
just public hearing I'm sorry I don't know the procedure
for this okay great I
got here just in time you're up come on all right welcome
and if you would give
us your name and address for the record and then when you
're finished with your
comments if you'll fill out a yellow card we would
appreciate it you'll have
three minutes all right Commission thank you for inviting
us to speak on this
matter my name is Lucas Hall L-e-c-a-s-h-o-l-l my address
is 815
crest oak place that's Denton 76209 and I am here to urge
the Commission to a
either reject the proposal outright or be rejected on the
condition that it is
amended in order to preserve the semi public definition and
apply and
continue to apply the semi public definition as it applies
to all
neighborhood residential zoning areas one two three four
and six I I believe
that so here I'm generally opposed to it because the
inclusion by eliminating
that the language excuse me by eliminating the what I'm
calling the
non not-for-profit provision we are by nature including for
-profit and
commercial uses into the definition that's as described in
the staff
recommendation now that goes against a historical and this
is a nationwide
historical precedent of having residential zones limited to
family a
living multifamily single-family use with the exception of
nonprofit community
type uses like schools neighborhood churches other
neighborhood nonprofit
surface service and community type uses the introduction of
for-profit or
business type uses into the definition of assembly halls
and then creating this
mechanism by which these could be inserted into what are
uniformly under
the Denton the existing development code uniformly for for
family living for
quiet peaceful residential living that is antithetical it's
it's using I'm
against that generally and I think a lot of neighborhood
representatives would be
there maybe I don't know how many people are here to speak
on it but if people
hear the idea that we're expanding the possibility of uses
to include for-profit
or commercial uses which are not by nature bad in fact
there are plenty of
business owners that are going to be great neighbors but it
's expanding
needlessly to address a very fine technical problem and
that is it's my
understanding simply to incorporate this small niche of
assembly type business
classes into a new definition so here's my proposal if you
really want to
address this which is including a new definition for
assembly type for-profit
businesses maintain the semi public definition with the
nonprofit limiting
use and make sure that continues to apply to all
neighborhood residentials but
create the new assembly definition as staff has proposed
and allow that to be
included on in mixed use commercial and industrial but
please leave the
neighborhood residential one through six with a big N in
all places if you do in
fact create that new assembly definition and by the way if
there's a business
owner or a group of business owners out there that really
really want to
establish a business thank you for the extended time in an
area that's
classified as neighborhood residential we already have the
tools at our
disposal variances or rezoning and I'm gonna cut you off
right here we'd let
you go for you thank you before you go yes came in late and
I think you may
have missed some of the items in the presentation and I
think there may be
some questions and then we may ask staff to come up and
clarify an item for you
so I'm gonna recognize Commissioner Brickle please sure mr.
Hall thank you
for coming tonight you walked it was like it was like in
the TV shows like
I've arrived here so are you aware that those staff is
recommending approval in
and are one through and our six that there does require an
SUP process which
does trigger a public hearing are you aware of that and
does that seem to
satisfy some of your concerns that the neighborhood can
come out and speak for
or against a proposal like that I am aware and I maintain
my position I'm
aware that this but and and the I think there there should
be a bifurcated
assembly type definition one that is semi-public as we have
it that exists
right now and that applies to neighborhood uses with the SU
P provision
all the way across as it does right now and then creating a
new definition
identical to the sets that's assembly clubs lounges
identical to the current
definition without the nonprofit limitation and then that
would also be an
SUP but that would only apply but it would be a big end in
every right in our
zone but then an SUP under every mixed use and commercial
and so yes I realize
that's a pause a possible rebuttal to what I just said but
I believe it should
remain a big end all the way across in neighborhood and one
more question for
you Commissioner Hudson yes mr. so my question is this yes
given given a
hypothetical situation currently now if a church or a not-
for-profit wanted to
lease to an individual that door is somewhat open and there
is no hearing
have you considered that that at least with this provision
you would at least
it eliminates that to a degree I think there I think there
is a more refined
way to us to address that problem and that's what I what I
just said and if
you really needed to I frankly I don't think that the the
rare instance of this
happening the hypothetical I don't think the possibility of
those hypotheticals
warrants the broad brush stroke of blanket allowing for-
profit applicants
to encroach into neighborhood residential zones and I
realize this is
all conditioned on that special use permit requirement but
in that instance I
think we could come up with a more refined tool I haven't
had time to
contemplate that hypothetical but I think there's a more
refined tool and a
zoning tool at our disposal to address that particular
situation and I'd be
happy to think about it and respond in more detail if you
want me to but sure
yeah I don't know all that's contingent on the vote tonight
but yes I'd love to
because that is it that's I think that I live about a block
away from the Legion
Hall and they're booked every weekend pretty much and so
yeah I think it is
more realistic than you think and so I'd love to hear what
you have to say sure
yes one more question for a Commissioner Roselle thank you
mr. all I appreciate
you coming speak and I actually raised some of the same
concerns you had in a
work session several weeks ago namely I was concerned about
inviting specific
noise issues into residential area and I was I was educated
on the fact that
there's city ordinances that help prevent that existence
from happening
apart from the special use permit which we would have the
ability to put some
constricts on some of the usage and so I align with you and
some of the concerns
I also is as we look at this there's community centers that
pop up and then
planned not planned developments but in residences that
with the nonprofit tag
on that would be inhibited to rent out that space for
weekend functions so this
would would help those localized type community centers
function without
having to go through like a rezoning or variance process
that that you brought
up does that make sense yes and I frankly am I guess I don
't know how the
code applies to this instance of that you gentlemen have
raised of an existing
not-for-profit organization leasing out for a business
purpose in my mind you
could easily justify it as as it as the code exists and
saying that financial
leasing out for the financial support of the existing
community or nonprofit
organization is a satisfactory nonprofit use whereas a
completely for-profit use
what really matters is the bottom line and I think that has
an inherent
friction with the established long established and very
delightful
established norms we have in Denton residential
neighborhoods and I really
see no harm in creating a bifurcated definition the way I
've envisioned and I
realize you all probably discussed this much longer than I
've had a chance to
talk to you about it but yeah I I appreciate your comments
and welcome
taking any other questions to see no other questions thank
you for your
comments okay thank you so much thank you again this is a
public hearing anyone
else that would like to speak on this item please come
forward at this time
seeing none I will close the public hearing on this item
Commissioner Bruegel thank you chair Julie where's Julie
hey Julie thank you
I'm wondering if you could address some of his concerns and
maybe make your case
for why the SUP process might might address some of his his
concerns with
that sure absolutely and I'll say that staff was really
sensitive to his
concerns and it was we went around quite a bit on it and
and so it was it was
definitely a point of discussion with staff but at the end
you know we looked
at what the existing the existing use what the activities
were associated with
it and they really are the same activities it really comes
down and who's
using it and so I think we're sensitive to the commercial
nature and to the
nature of those activities they could get quite intensive
and we tried to
think about worst-case scenarios in our internal meetings
but when but when we
looked at those and then we looked at you know any use that
would come in in a
residential district would also have to meet any any lot
coverages any building
envelope requirements within that zoning district so that
would be a limiter to
it there would potentially there would be buffering
requirements screening
requirements and that's just just on the code but then when
you look at the
additional criteria for approval for the SUP and that there
would be public
notification as well as a public hearing that we felt like
that extra scrutiny
and that community input would serve to to make sure that
it was compatible with
the character of the neighborhood. Yeah and a follow-up to
I believe there was
we brought up you brought up an example of something
currently existing was it
the Wildwood or something that can you talk about? Wildwood
Inn is a facility
that is a bed and breakfast it's actually got a CEO for a
bed and breakfast
but it also holds weddings as well and that's in a
residential area is
that right? Yes ma'am. It is on arterial but it but it is
in a residential zoning in a
residential area. And it seems to fit well with where it is
there haven't
been many complaints from the residents in that
neighborhood? I'm not aware I
know that the neighborhoods have had complaints about noise
but but I don't
know about any specific complaints. Staff was also
approached by an applicant who
wanted to do a farm slash wedding venue on the west side of
town in an NR2
zoning district and when we looked at what they were
proposing it really made
sense it was a rural type use it was going to have large
acreage so it would
have provide a lot of buffer between them and the neighbors
but it would also
have been a for-profit in order you know they had to have
the wedding component in
order to have the sort of farm component so we tried to
look at all you know the
the different scales and how the intensities could affect
the the
character of the areas and there would be some instances
where it would not be
appropriate and and we would you know we would look at
carefully at that and if
if conditions couldn't make it appropriate for that area
then that would
be something staff would have difficulty recommending for
approval. Thank you
that's helpful. Any other questions for staff? Thank You
Julie. Any other
discussion on this or someone like to make a motion?
Commissioner Beck. Thank
you chair I would like to ask Mr. Hall one more question.
What is or is there
a worst-seen scenario for you? Is it just the idea that it
's a for-profit
entity that's coming into a neighborhood a residential area
or are there some
for-profit entities that you that worry the most that might
come out of this?
Well A, I generally don't think we need to completely
rewrite the code for a
very small case-by-case problem which could be established
which could be
addressed by existing tools namely variants or rezoning. I
'm not sure how
wildwood exists it's a lovely place I assume a variance or
some some other
provision why not other you know require other businesses
to go through the same
process but I suppose my my worst-case scenario I don't
think it would it's
it's something along the lines of gradual encroachment over
time and I it's
I don't feel like I should have to defend this position in
an instance
where we're elect where we can elect to just maintain the
status quo as it
applies to residential neighborhoods but then create the
new as for-profit
assembly hall definition and allow that to apply to mixed-
use commercial and
industrial. It seems like a very technical problem that we
're addressing
the tools for which we already have at our disposal and
therefore I'm for that
sort of dorky policy reason against the idea of a broad
redefinition that would
suddenly change and affect all neighborhood zones and yeah
the the
prospect of gradual encroachment one here one there one
there and by the way I
mean if you are comfortable with it now and you believe
that you would give such
as a special use application very high scrutiny and really
give it a you know
what's to say of the Commission five years or ten years
from now or the City
Council five years or ten years from now I think it's
better just as least as it
applies to neighborhood uses to please just continue to
restrict the way it is
currently and to if you want add create the new assembly
for-profit definition
and apply it to commercial and industrial uses. I think
staff wants to
add and clarify a little bit more as well. Thank you Chair
person. Just to
iterate and to so that we're all on the same page the
definition in essence it
has been broadened to an extent you're absolutely right but
the definition in
its the initial definition the definition how it is how it
reads in the Denton
Development Code is extremely restrictive. We didn't staff
when they
when we evaluated this land use we read the existing land
use which in a way was
coined to only accommodate a certain type. That being said
and doing our
benchmark studies and evaluating what is going on in other
communities because
the number of queries that staff received on these types of
uses of
facilities because we have to be able to fit a specific
land use within the
category and that's why we have the schedule of uses. So
there's several
scenarios that are at play. One is when you look at our NR1
and NR2 zoning
districts most of them are Randstyle or rural in nature and
if you recall Miss
Wyatt just spoke to that that you know someone wants to do
some type of farming
activity associated with the banquet hall or a wedding
venue it it creates
there is a market niche for that. The next question we
asked ourselves are we
just accommodating a specific user or should we reevaluate
and understand what
are the impacts of this use within our community because we
know as Commissioner
Hudspeth said that there are scenarios where you know where
it specifically says
for non-profit. That being said we went back to our
benchmarking and when you
look at larger residential zoning districts which have
higher density as
an example most a lot of them not most of them but quite a
few of them have for
instance club houses or pools or venues which enables them
to utilize that
facility if you look at some residential communities who
perhaps have a golf
course associated with them and that clubhouse associated
with it you can use
that facility for a venue for example so we use that
benchmarking study but we
went another step further and that step was let's not
permit these uses by right
let's establish a specific use permit for these because
that enables us to
evaluate that specific small use you know as you're calling
it at a in
comparison with what is surrounding that what is the
compatibility of that use
that SUP will enable us to determine whether in if it
indeed is appropriate
and compatible with the existing land uses surrounding it
and as a future land
use and that SUP would have a site plan tied to it it would
have a landscape
plan tied to it it would have elevations tied to it because
more than likely it
would grow out of that existing facility furthermore the
specific use permit would
address noise it would address traffic issues it would
address the occupancy
loads and the levels to determine would this actually work
can we sustain that
use within the community it's being proposed in that's
where the SUP comes
into play unfortunately a variance request wouldn't because
you can't just
rezone a tiny piece within the larger area because then it
leads to
incompatibility so you know and I know your your thought
process and your logic
as it relates to the definition is correct but we went that
extra mile and
we evaluated and tried to determine the compatibility of
and that's why in the
non-residential districts as you've pointed out it's
permitted by right as
well so when it comes to the residential categories of
districts it gives us a
keener eye on it we we have an evaluation that has to occur
with that
land use in the instance of an SUP consideration absolutely
which would
warrant the public hearing process
Commissioner Daddowicz thank you staff and I think what I'd
like you to do is go
through the SUP approval process because not only does it
is it aired here
correct it also is brought to the attention of City Council
so that
scrutiny gets very very finite and we all look at it at two
levels so if you
wanted to expand upon that you for more clarification thank
you Commissioner
Daddowicz actually you did you handled it well you
addressed it perfectly the
specific use permit is a public hearing process that
involves property owners
within 200 feet are notified of the request the city of
Denton actually does
an extra notification layer and we also send our
notification within 500 foot
radius of the request that then is slated for a Planning
and Zoning
Commission meeting where the public is welcome to attend
and voice their
concerns if any associated with the request at that point
the Planning and
Zoning Commission makes a recommendation it can be in favor
or it can be against
the request that recommendation is then forwarded on to
City Council again those
note notices are published a newspaper notice goes out
establishing that this
zoning case is happening the City Council then makes a
determination based
on that now what does that land use analysis reflect in the
report there are
several criteria in the Denton Development Code that have
to be looked
at from traffic compatibility of land use noise lighting
glare and illumination
landscaping are they any extra mechanisms that need to be
attached to
this to ensure that it's compatible from an aesthetic
standpoint or from a land
use compatibility standpoint so there are two levels of
scrutiny as Commissioner
Dudowitz stated and once a special use permit is granted it
is a vested right
specific use permits can be unlimited or they can be tied
to a certain lifespan
well as a Hail Mary maybe including in the definition that
the specific for
this particular thing if it's a special use permit for
these assembly type
things in zoning residential neighborhoods attaching a
provision that
these need to be revisited and reviewed by staff on a
regular annual or you know
two-year basis or what have you because as you said
conditions change maybe it
gets a little bit bigger the business gets a little bit
bigger than
originally conceived maybe it's having a little more impact
on the neighborhood
than originally expected so if it does get bigger let's
assume they want to
expand they would have to come back in to revise that
specific use permit
through the public hearing process again yes and just to
reiterate the SUP is
specific to that particular request and it stays there and
a time frame is set
it and review as per the recommendation so it's very
specific it can't be
broadened anymore can't be used someplace else right it's
just that
specific get used and the public has a right to let us know
what they think
each and every time that comes up so can the specific use
permit is it is it run
with the land or is it unique to the person in other words
could someone
establish a business in a neighborhood and then sell it to
an out-of-town
business owner and they could just come in and still have
that special use
permit right it would depend on the application itself
sometimes it runs
with the applicant as well as the land itself so they could
go both okay it's
these technical details that I wish neighborhood residents
wouldn't even
have to start wouldn't even have to address but I realize
that y'all feel
confident in the special use permit process so I thank you
for your comments
thank you we did close the public hearing so we're hoping
for discussion
or comment or for a motion Commissioner Netherlands if
there's no further
discussion I move to approve is submitted with emphasis on
specific use
permit process
Commissioner Beck I said get the motion any further
discussion seeing none we
have a first and a second on the board and I'll call for a
vote this motion
carries 6-0 we're now going to move back up to item E and I
will open the public
hearing for item E on the mobility plan
should I begin yes sir okay good evening you know I had
done a presentation in
the last public hearing and I will quickly go over that for
the audience's
benefit as to what we covered we looked at the why we
update a mobility plan we
looked at the travel demand model which is a computer model
that has been done
for the Dunn Street Network that is a master planning model
it provides all of
the traffic data and it provides what streets are operating
under different
level of service it also was used to do the projections for
the build out
conditions which will be a fully built out condition based
on the land use plan
that we have received and we updated the mobility plan of
with the new roads
which were already approved master plan communities which
is like hills of Dunn
coal ranch hunter ranch and then the annex areas that city
has annexed there's
no road designation there so we added all those into the
mobility plan and in the
last public hearing we had some comments we have responded
to the comments and
then in particular I wanted to talk about three of those
which is the post
work option the Collins Laney Road extensions it is a court
order that I
had shared with you in the work session and then the Golden
Circle Cooper Creek
Road extension which is the north part of the city there
so I'm going to share with you you have in your packet a
map that is a little
dated now this one is being updated to meet the comments
that came to us after
the last public hearing so this is what we will use as the
official document and
talk off of it and I lost that for you so you can see it a
little better oops
okay so we're going to talk about the post oak initially
when we presented it
we had post oak actually going along the Clear Creek nature
preserve and we found
that that was not the best option because of some
restrictions that we
have so we came back and presented to you in the work
session last week and
today of course to look at the option A and the option B
option B does run
through some existing developed property the option A is in
more of a green field
area and as that green field area develops the city will
have a chance to
then acquire the right-of-way in those areas so this is a
better option that is
a substantial amount of traffic that has to come on post
oak road to relieve some
of the traffic that's going to go on Mayhill Road this will
account for over
25,000 trips on this option going north in this area so my
recommendation is to
use the option A and as we go later on in the
recommendation we will show you
that the second item was the Collins Street connection
which is right in this
area and what we found there was a entry in the
Commissioner's Court and a order
was taken which actually working with the railroad railroad
itself the
Collins Road connection here it does not cross the railroad
anymore it terminates
south and then it again starts on the north side but it
does not cross the
railroad track city had initiated that because they wanted
to have another
crossing in different part of the town so they had to then
do away with one
crossing city chose to do away with this crossing working
with the neighborhood
in at that time in this area so even if you want to we
cannot go and cross
Collins Road because we'll have to get permission from the
railroad which
doesn't come that easy so we did away with that connection
and the extension
of Lakeview and along here and also we have shown extension
of Laney coming as
a collector and tying in here with Collins that part has
been taken out it
does extend up to the post oak road so we have connectivity
and a collector
straight to serve this area so that is a change it is not
part of the
recommendation but it is change in the in the overall map
the third comment was
on the Golden Circle and the Cooper Creek Road as to their
existing property
owners and as we mentioned that property owners gonna be
there anytime you extend
a road it will go through somebody's property based on the
model that we
have put together for the built-out conditions there is
more than 6,000
trips per day on Cooper Creek Road and about a thousand
trips on the Golden
Circle whenever they develop this property maybe 20 years
down the road or
30 years down the road there will be a need for this
collector road so as part
of the overall planning process it is our job to show you
that that there's a
need for this road not at this time but down the road when
the when these
properties develop that we are need for this road okay so
with that I'm going to
move forward to the recommendation part the recommendations
the staff has is to
for approval of the travel demand model which is the master
planning computer
model which was used for the updates to the mobility plan
with option a for
post oak road and the addition of the Hickory Creek arter
ial option in the
mobility plan and I'll stand for any questions commissioner
Brighill thank
you chair PS can you last week we talked about extending
the adding the
Hickory Creek option to the south and it sounded like we
could kind of go either
way with that option in the end at the last meeting we
decided to leave it in
just to have that option for tonight's session could you
walk me through the
arguments for or against the Hickory Creek option in the
argument that was
there is the connectivity of the west side of the town to
the east side of the
town in the southern portion of the city so that currently
we do not have
this option that takes off from country club road in this
area right here and
then extends this road crossing Hickory Creek and ties into
2181 can be done
because there is no development there over time if we do
establish this
routing then as the property is developed in that area then
the city
will have a chance to then acquire right away especially if
we go with the
road impact fees then they can be compensated for the right
away as part
of the development process so it establishes a routing the
stock becomes
aware that there will be a road that will be in this area
and as the
development comes in the DRC engineers they look at the
mobility plan and they'll
say okay this road is crossing this area so let us see does
it affect your
property and if it does then they will work on getting that
right away exacted
as part of the development process okay thank you I had
asked a question to a
camera if it was last week or the week before about clearly
defining bike lane
in the in the new in the new road requirements did you ever
come up with a
definition of what a bike lane is I mean are we just
talking about and I know
part of this was context-sensitive but I was just hoping
for a firmer definition
are we talking about a wide outside lane are we talking
about Sharos are we
talking about a painted stripe or a buffer somehow if you
recall you know a
few presentations back when I brought the contact sensitive
solution information
to you we had shared some cross-sections which are of
course not part of the
transportation criteria manual at this time what we have
right now in the
criteria manual are right away dedications for a primary
arterial hundred
and 135 feet for a secondary arterial 110 feet for new
roads and for a
collector's street 70 feet that much real estate let's call
it the area within
135 or 110 or 70 allows for dedicated bike bike lane if
that is desired as part
of the planning process and during construction so that
during construction
then if it is deemed that yes there's a need for a bike
lane it can be
constructed so it can be constructed in the sidewalk area
so that sidewalk can
be expanded instead of being a five foot sidewalk in our
trio it can be a ten foot
sidewalk that will accommodate bike traffic or if that is
not the desire
then there's enough room in the pavement area because the
outside lane and the
arterial is currently 18 feet so by striping you know a
double stripe and
that would allow for a actual bike bike lane in that area
so so I want to be clear
then so this new mobility plan update by default will any
future road
construction will by default be required to have by some
sort of bike
accommodation I've seen the sidewalks in your in your mock-
ups but we didn't
always I didn't again I didn't always see those bike lanes
so I just want to
be clear any any future road construction will include some
sort of
bike amenity well you know our city has a bike plan right
now so wherever the
bike plan is if there's a road constructed then the
engineers need to
accommodate the bike lane in that right but as I am pardon
my inertia but as I
said a couple weeks ago the bike plan currently only
applies to the current
streets that we have the mobility plan is looking at future
streets and I just
want to make sure that in 20 years we're not stuck with the
same problem that we
have now or we're trying to retrofit bike amenities when we
could have been
building for that all along yeah you know that is not
currently in the
criteria manual you I would suggest that if you would like
to make that as part
of a recommendation to the council so that it can be you
know heard there in
the council public hearing also I'll be happy to take it
okay so that that is a
motion we could make tonight is to of course you can add
that to the motion
okay thank you thank you and this is a public hearing got a
number of cards this
evening I'm gonna start with the first card that is not
marked whether they
are in support or not support where they wish to speak dr.
Charles Browning or
Browning as you come forward please state your name and
address for the
record and you'll have three minutes thank you my name is
Charles Browning I
live at 617 Emory in Denton Texas 76201 I'm in support of
adding an amendment
or some type of addition to the mobility plan that would
require all new streets
to be fitted with bike lanes and I would like to see an
increase on the speed of
the current bike plan we already have I haven't seen a
whole lot of new bike
lanes or say repairs to bike lanes that need to be made on
Hickory the Hickory
lane bike lane at this time is referred to many of my
friends as a death trap
there's often glass I've broken had tires flattened there I
commute to UNT
every day where I work probably commute probably 10 miles
every day on average
around didn't to take my daughter to school who also comm
utes to Calhoun
middle school I commute to get my groceries and I do this
by choice it has
a lot of benefits old personally and I think the city of
Denton would also
benefit for improving infrastructure for cyclists the cycl
ists put less wear and
tear on the road which causes allows you know tax mayors to
have some relief from
fixing those roads so the current mobility or the mobility
plan y'all are
considering I think if you make it more accommodating for
cyclists more people
who would put less impact on our environment promote clean
air and a
local healthy population would do that by by cycling on
trips that are less
than a mile or two miles there's not really any reason
other than you have a
small child or it's raining if you're a healthy fit
individual with a bicycle
and you feel it's safe I think that we should promote these
activities not only
for personal health but also for the health of our
community and that's all I
have to say but I'll be willing to take any questions thank
you
a little bit can you turn your mic on please sorry
hope you got that
the next card I have is Clay Thurmond and he does does wish
to speak my name
is Clay Thurmond my address is 1524 Snyder 76209 and I am a
avid cyclist I
cycle in the city out in the roads I love Denton because it
's a very livable
city and I would urge you to include that amendment that's
been suggested to
require cycling access on new mobility plans it has many
many benefits to us
sustainability green is a very powerful argument community
is one of the big
things that I get out of cycling having reengaged the
cycling community I've
expanded my own social contacts as I cycle around town I
stop I talk to
people at their houses their yards and I've engaged with
the community so much
more we can't do that when we're zipping around in cars
pedestrians cyclists
will do that I'd like to see the cycling infrastructure
improved in this town
like they've said hickory is horrible Hinkle is horrible
there's many of them
and many of them are disjointed not really connecting Dent
on is an eminently
livable place and from where I live just southeast of the
TW golf course I can be
almost anywhere in the city inside of 15 minutes I can be
out in the country
there's very few places this size that you could say that
for and I think
that's one of the draws for us to bring in younger workers
families and that's
another thing I want to see is cycling infrastructure
improved so that that
community can be developed I want to see children be able
to ride down the
streets I really like it when I go downtown and I see
father with his
toddler on her trike going down the street and I just like
to see us become
a much more livable community we can do it thank you thank
you thank you sir I
have a question commissioner Brickle thank you chair so I
generally live kind
of near your neighborhood and I can I can barely drive from
one end of town in
15 minutes to the other end so I'm just kind of curious as
a cyclist how is
traffic for you how's the congestion I pick my routes very
carefully there are
some streets I frequently go shopping I do a lot of grocery
shopping I've
probably eliminated 50% of my car travel but I go shopping
down around the loop
around the mall I will cycle to my ophthalmologist over off
Bonnie Bray I
can get almost everywhere and it's just mainly picking my
routes very carefully
and that for its safety are you talking my question I was
trying to it was a
little tongue-in-cheek there like how is how's the
congestion for you out there
on the roads when you're riding your bike and the rest of
us are stuck in
cars but it brings me to my next question is how since you
do cycle
everywhere do you pick your routes carefully because of
traffic flows on
on streets do you do you typically ride on streets that are
more bike friendly
than others or do you just take the straightest possible
route I write on
the arterials I ride on oak I ride on hickory Crescent is
one of my favorite
streets I ride on dust almost everything except Woodrow and
Teasley which I would
love to be able to get across 35 that's one of the big
barriers we have in
trying to promote cycling throughout the city is the
southern and northern halves
can't really get I agree and there is something in the bike
plan to where
there's supposed to be some sort of underpass to connect to
the south side
of the city but it's it's many years away unfortunately but
I agree with you
on that absolutely yeah but mostly it's picking it for
traffic and safety thank
you and I'd like to say that the Denton drivers I find to
be fairly used to
cyclists they see us a lot because the university there are
a lot of people
that can afford cars that are you see them bicycling every
day to work so I
think the awareness is there it can always be improved and
the more
infrastructure you build the more it's going to be used
thank you thank you the
next card I have is Adam Briggle following Adam will be
looks like Kevin
Beardshaw
hi thank you for having my name is Adam Briggle 1315
Dartmouth Place in Denton
I'm here at the request of one of the planning and zoning
commissioners to just
tell a story every so we live just north of University and
every morning I get up
with my two children mg my son seven and Lulu who's three
and we have bought a
trailer for Lulu for my bicycle and she goes to school at
UNT because she's that
advanced and so she goes with me to UNT every day it's
about a mile and a half
mg will ride the first way to Newton razor on the pedal of
my bicycle so I
actually just be pushing the bike with mg on the pedal and
Lulu in the back in
the trailer in the first five blocks there's no sidewalk at
all I'm sure that
wasn't any of you who planned those it was back in the 60s
and you're gonna do
better at that now because that would be nice when you're
going down Amherst and
there's cars coming right at you and you're trying to
shuttle two kids it
gets a little bit scary so keep that in mind that there are
people who want to
commute this way and I've heard from a lot of folks that
they sure would like
to do that too but it's just sort of prohibitive given the
infrastructure
they have to deal with on the way to work we drop mg off at
Newton razor and
then I get on the bike and I ride with Lulu and we could go
down Malone which I
would do if I was on my own but there's really no
indication that bicyclists
really belong on Malone there's no charoes or bike lanes or
anything it's a
little bit quick to take a little one in a trailer so we
take gober which is nice
it's just a little bit out of the way and then we go up we
hit scripture and
we come up and then we go there's a nice share on as we
come Jago or is that Jago
there at that point and then campus is really well done I
think for bicycles so
I'm just want to share that story that there are folks who
I think want to
find options for all the reasons all the other people have
been saying to bicycle
and the decisions you're making about what the
infrastructure looks like will
determine if they can do that especially if they can do
that safely and I feel
like we can we can do it but it's a bit dicey especially
crossing university
which when it's done is going to be I think really scary
and might be a point
to rethink six lanes going really fast right by the school
so there's that last
thing I'll mention because I can't resist a little
philosophy that so that's
the story I want to make sure I got the story out but one
of my favorite
philosophers is Yvonne Illich and he talks about a concept
of a radical
monopoly which is not like Ford or Chevy exercising a
monopoly but one particular
transportation type in this case cars and I think cars too
much exercise a
radical monopoly on our roads and I know you're all trying
to fix it but what
that does is essentially put it puts the thumb on the scale
for a certain kind of
lifestyle which is a car centric lifestyle so this ideal
that government
is somehow neutral with respect to the way people want to
live is not true so
you're not neutral to begin with so let's take
consideration of a multiple
plants and multiple lifestyles so thanks got a question for
you
Commissioner Rossell Adam I appreciate you being here this
evening we speak to
the scripture part of the story because that road
particularly seems hazardous
and I would love your opinion on what the solution might be
for scripture in
terms of a sidewalk that's desperately needed there or like
a share oh it seems
like you need to accommodate pedestrians as well and that I
'd love your opinion
is since you see that daily I would love to see a sidewalk
on scripture that is a
tough part we only have one block on it thankfully but if
if you're trying to
commute down scripture I think well either one of those
could work I think a
sidewalk would be most effective my sense of that road when
I'm on a bike is
it kind of narrow and people are as it is are kind of kind
of all over the place
on that road so that definitely needs to be addressed I
think a sidewalk would be
would be great on scripture yeah thank you one more
question for you
Commissioner Hudson how you doing mr. Bruegel hey question
so what is the as I
understand it so we have two opposite ends so there's no
mandatory bike lanes
then there's all mandatory bike lanes what do you see in
the middle I mean what
is that what is a realistic vision for that in your opinion
so much of this is
cultural and not infrastructural you know it depends
whether my commute goes
well or not is how well the drivers treat me you know I can
have a really
grumpy morning when somebody figures that they can just
pull right up to me
like I'm not really there on the road so I know that's not
your question but I
think that's another whole dimension of this is to think
about how do we
accommodate that and so you're right I've seen the spectrum
you're talking
about I see all of it if you had to pick something in the
middle I really like
what had been recently redone on that strip of Jago where
you have the
Sharos and I think it works there really well because the
road is wide enough so
when I'm biking even with the trailer behind me and even if
there's a car
parked there it feels safe to be going down the middle of
the road and if
somebody wants to pass me as long as there's not a car
coming the other way
they can pass me and there's plenty of room there's not a
sense of encroachment
there so where I mean where Sharos can work I think again
back to your question
scripture I'm not sure because it it feels a little more cr
amped but if you
got a little bit more room my experiences those can work
those can
work well I think ideally though what's campus is so great
when you go down
Highland because they built dedicated bike lanes on bike
lanes on both sides
but I realize that's not an option in every case but that's
that's the ideal
does it does it help a little bit it does if I may you bet
thank you so but
really if I were to give direction and I say hey in a
perfect world is it is it a
percentage of streets how do you map that out right so that
I if I can't say
100% of the streets should have bike Sharos or bike lanes
or some kind of
dedication for bikes if I can't get there what is a good
mandate to say in
your opinion to say at least these main connector streets
should have bike
dedicated lanes or I don't know if I'm asking a good
question but I know what
I'm trying to say I would shoot for a hundred percent I
mean keep that as a
goal okay then I'm sure you all know better than me how to
prioritize in
terms of ridership and all that stuff which roads to go
first but I think
eventually if you want true parity in terms of how people
choose to commute
and not have the government essentially deciding for you or
dictating that one
way is preferable over another then you need to eventually
get to a hundred
percent and what you all are doing I take it as sort of
paying for the sins
of previous commissioners who didn't think about this stuff
and so it's going
to take a while but I wouldn't let go of that goal okay
thank you yeah thank you
to me one other question Commissioner Bruegel thank you
chair actually was
actually more a question for Commissioner Commissioner
Hudson I know
we're not quite to the point where we're going to be
talking where we're
discussing yet but what what what is keeping us from a
hundred percent is it
some cultural notion that okay you know I mean what is what
is keeping us from
getting to a hundred percent isn't that our role as as as
planning and zoning
commissioners and we're not we're not to that point yet we
're having discussion
yet but I just wanted to just kind of maybe plant that seed
as work as we're
listening to to the folks here tonight that what what is
keeping us from
getting to a hundred percent we'll continue that as we open
for discussion
let's continue with our public hearing next up again is
Kevin Beecher and then
after that yes Collins road yes sir and after that Michael
Hinnan
Kevin Bradshaw 2052 Collins Road okay now I hope I'm not
shooting in the dark
here I just got called that the city has a plan to run a
six-lane highway through
my front yard now I don't know for sure I didn't see the
earlier speaker but I
or else I'd have had my 40 neighbors with their pitchforks
and torches up
here with me but we've already made our sacrifice to the
city and I don't know
if there's any truth to this yet but we've already made our
sacrifice by
giving up our railroad crossing we don't have anywhere for
a six-lane highway to
go to and I certainly don't need that much more noise we
are already putting
up with the wider highway when they widen 380 so we have
deafening noise
already so I would strongly encourage or discourage any
additional sacrifice on
our part to the city as we aren't in the city and if the
city can't afford five
hundred dollars to fix the Min the Copper Creek Bridge how
are they going to
afford the fight they'd have with putting in a new highway
I what I also
heard was that this was to go through the government core
land and I don't
believe they'd think much of that even though the city does
have control over
it and what effect would this have on your new sewer plant
that you plan to
build out on the Hanna Ranch so that's I'll try to catch up
on the
information but I didn't want to miss this opportunity well
thank you for your
comments and I think you excuse me I think we have a
question okay for you as
well and before I recognize the Commissioner the gentleman
sitting right
there mr. Rorah can answer those questions right that yes
sir I think
your questions and concerns have been addressed as far as
Collins road but I
will recognize Commissioner Roselle for his question I
thank you I probably just
withdrawal this I was just going to suggest for the ed
ification of the mapping to
speak with staff to figure out exactly where the
implications would be for your
property so I agree with the chair okay
and our next speaker will be Michael Hinnan followed by
Katie Trice Michael
Hinnan 724 Thomas Street in Denton I'm speaking in favor of
the mobility plan
but I want to echo some of the sentiments you've already
heard about
any kind of future plans that come before you that always
should contain
considerations for a bicycle and for pedestrian travel our
cities are much
more civilized and much more livable when they are on the
scale of people who
can walk around in our cities there's a whole movement
dealing with making
cities are much more pleasant places to be even when we're
out walking from one
place to another or bicycling from one place to another the
speed of vehicle
traffic in our cities should not be the main consideration
and I urge you when
you're looking at all proposals for highways in the future
that they must as
one of the previous speakers said they must contain
accommodations not just
possibilities but actual concrete or physical bicycle paths
or and for
pedestrians in sidewalks further when you have private
parties coming before
you seeking to alter or to develop property within the city
that you always
look at the accommodations that are being made for bicycle
and pedestrian
use around those properties including bicycle racks you
know there's a lot of
places in town where you end up looking for the nearest
tree or the nearest sign
post so whenever you have a business or some kind of a
development that's
proposed to you I urge you to keep in mind always how it's
going to affect
pedestrian and bicycle users I live over by McKenna Park on
the west side of town
and I try to ride my bike as often as I can to go to the
core parts of the city
and it's a two-fer you get where you're going and you get
some exercise and at
the same time I would urge you to look at the retrofitting
of our streets for
safe travel by pedestrians though scripture Street is one
of the probably
one of the highest categories I can think of because I see
a lot of people
walking along scripture between possibly Jago and down
where body Bray runs and
they're always walking in the street with the traffic and
that's unacceptable
thank you thank you thank you our next speaker will be
Katie
thrice followed by Todd Ellis hi I'm Katie tries 1401 Egan
Denton Texas I I
had the pleasure of serving with Commissioner Brighill on
the bicycle
plan task force that helped to create the bike plan and a
lot of work went into
those meetings and I was very proud to be able to serve
with that team to
represent the citizens and also the currency a community
bike shop so much
work has been put into that plan and we should certainly
not consider taking
away accommodation for bicyclists if anything we should be
adding more more
infrastructure for bicyclists to protect our most
vulnerable users and to to
omit paths that are in that plan would certainly be a diss
ervice to the staff
citizens volunteers and others that have contributed to
date to the plan when you
look at more progressive cities that are making biking a
real priority you're
seeing a lot of divided lanes so that you know when you
think about our most
vulnerable users you're thinking about the children that
are biking to school
and having some kind of divided lane that protects them is
one of the best
ways that they can feel safe as well as the older riders
because we want to feel
safe and we want to feel welcome and we want to feel as
cyclists like we belong
on the roads you know and we were in the bicycle plan task
force we were
restricted in some ways because of the road width and the
parking requirements
and so I absolutely want to encourage you to in the
mobility plan with new
developments where the roads haven't been created yet and
the sidewalks
haven't been created to really require the highest possible
amenity for
cyclists and that isn't definitely not a share-o and it is
not a wide outside
lane and it is not a side path only it is a divided bicycle
lane yeah so in
summary we want to feel safe as cyclists we want to feel
welcome and we want to
feel like we belong yeah and thank you so much thank you I
don't see any
questions did you have a question I just mostly had a
comment Katie
Commissioner Brickle thank you chair Katie I just I also
had the great
pleasure of serving on the bike plan task force with you it
was like five or
six years ago and I just wanted to for the record to thank
Ms. Trice for her
amazing work on that task force I remember that for a while
staff was
really pushing for that bike lane on Mulberry to get to
campus and you're
like no okay Greece the way to go and you really banged
that drum and they
finally listened so so that's on you so congratulations and
thank you for your
hard work thank you Commissioner Brickle. Todd Ellis the
next card that I have be
followed by Carl Gossett. Hi commissioners thanks for the
chance to speak
tonight my name is Todd Ellis I live at 3321 Rockhill Road
in Aubrey where I
only lived for two months I lived in Denton before that and
I have been a
bike commuter since 1983 starting in Denton and then for
many years in San
Antonio New Orleans Guam and Salt Lake City and all of
those I've experienced
the various infrastructure for biking or absence of
infrastructure for biking and
like every biker here one of the first things you figure
out is where the
death traps are so you don't ride there and so a lot of
biking is about avoiding
that but I'm definitely in support of obviously including
accommodations in
all future bike plans. It's hard to put 32 years of
experience cycling in
different cities into three minutes it's kind of like I
could grab any number of
things from my brain what I should that's convincing I
really have no idea
except other than what has been mentioned biking is doesn't
seem like
any other infrastructure decision because biking is a
paradigm shift and
it's a paradigm shift towards many things you know self-re
liance
sustainability local economy taking charge of your own
health mental health
I could go on and on about the benefits of cycling but it's
not don't get it just
as another infrastructure project but a paradigm shift that
is the fastest
growing mode of transportation in cities in the US. We know
through studies done
by the city of Oregon or city of Portland Oregon that a
higher number of
bicycles keeps more money circulating locally so for the
money oriented among
us that should be you know a carrot out there but it's a
quality of life issue
and I guess my struggle with city governments and
governments in general
is especially in the US is it seems to all be about you
know what Zack de la
Roca over age against machine said is all the world jails
and churches so he
has a song about planning and zoning actually you know and
nothing's anything
wrong with the jail or church per se but it's not the
letter of the law but this
the letter of what he's saying the spirit of what he's
saying is that you
know we want to create a community that's not just you know
oppressive you
know another another 7-eleven or another box store but a
community of life and
access that's 30 years of experience in three minutes
do you have a question for you Commissioner Roselle thank
you chair I
you made a leading statement that I just want to follow up
on you said the first
thing bicycles do when they come to town is find out where
the death traps are
can you tell me where the death traps are and didn't I
would personally like
oh yeah oh yeah there's and I'm sure a lot of people do and
I can tell the
personal ones I have to avoid right now I'd like to tell
the personal one I have
to avoid right now and which is why I'm excited about the
the postdoc option
because my my commute right now goes from a middle school
close to post oak
and in Corinth and it goes around into town and out for 28
to Aubrey about 20
mile right and it could be about 12 miles but I can't do
Mayhill Road Mayhill
Road isn't is a no way Mayhill Road's no way and then I can
't do 228 obviously
because that's you know again I've seen bicyclists doing
you know loop 228 at
6 a.m. without lights and I I just I've a couple times I've
stopped and tried to
go not you really you don't want to ride this you know he's
so deadly you know
- so 288 is Mayhill Road definitely is the university is
like like clay said
Woodrow is Woodrow's challenging I actually do Woodrow
because but it's
challenging mostly because of the how fast the cars are
going there it is it
is two lanes on a sidewalk but they're going really fast
right there those are
the main scripture is there's plenty right now the main one
for me is Mayhill
and if you guys made that post oak with bike facilities
that I could ride to I
would memorize all of your names and bow to the four
directions every day before
I did that bike ride because I would just be unbelievable
that'd be unbelievable
it's a deal yeah I will okay we'll Commissioner Corito to
memorialize you
thank you thank you thank you next speaker will be Carl G
ossett followed by
Doug Campbell thank you my name is Carl Gossett I live at
602 Woodland Street in
Denton Texas and I don't really have a prepared statement
and I'm not ready to
address any of the specifics in the changes in the mobility
plan but I'm
here mostly to make a general comment about the need of the
city to make sure
to include infrastructure in any changes to the mobility
plan regardless of what
the bike plan says I moved here about three and a half
years ago from Los
Angeles California and when I lived in LA I commuted 12
miles every day on my bike
and when I moved to Denton my thought was this is great you
know I did some
research I looked at it online and we we had a preliminary
trip to find housing
and I thought this is great this is a small town it's
lovely the weather is
great for the most part and I could see a lot of people
riding bikes and I
thought this is perfect my experience was that in general I
find riding in
Denton scarier than riding in downtown Los Angeles and for
any of you who know
LA I went from mid-city to South Central every day and it
was a pleasure and just
going down University or McKinney from my house is it's it
's a crap shoot so I
would just make sure that people understand that I think
there's a
cultural shift that needs to happen I sensed that for a lot
of people for
whatever reason cyclists are still seen as some sort of
marginal anti-establishment
group of people who just make that decision that they're
gonna ride their
bike for whatever reason I'd like to propose that the view
be expanded to
consider that everyone should be riding bikes and there are
actually quite a few
people who do age doesn't matter gender doesn't matter and
hopefully you know
class doesn't matter either but it's important that we look
at cyclists not
just a small marginal group that needs to be accommodated
so the consequence of
that is that the tyranny of the majority should not you
know has no play here so
I don't think anyone should come out and say we have X
number of cars that go
through this street on a daily basis and only 12 cyclists
therefore you know the
conclusion is obvious I think we need to move away from
that model more towards
well if we build it there will come and the reality I'll
leave you with this the
cycling community is growing so the number of riders is not
going to go down
it's going to go up and someone's going to get hurt
somebody some people have
already gotten hurt but someone's got a most likely you
know at some point get
into a catastrophic situation and become a fatality so I
would encourage the city
to not be reactive to this scenario which is bound to
happen if things are
the way they are now and be more proactive and include bike
infrastructure
in any point any changes to any mobility plan that the city
is considering thank
you. I have a question for you Commissioner Bruegel. Thank
You Chair. Carl thanks for being here tonight.
What you said about about getting injured and tying into
what the last
speaker said about that too I'm just kind of curious from
all y'all here by a
show of hands have any of you ever been hit by a car while
riding your bike and
I know Adam has to you to raise his hand and those of you
that have raised your
hands do you feel if if there would have been a bike
accommodation for you at that
place where you were hit would that have kept you safer if
with that maybe
prevented so just about as many hands okay I'm just curious
thank you yeah I'll
just if I may I've had guns pulled on me in LA while on my
bike I've had
milkshakes thrown at me out of cars I've had people come at
me with baseball bats
that's nothing compared to riding on McKinney believe me so
I'm I you know I
have a car I drive to you it's not like I just have a bike
and I look at drivers
in some some sort of different prism I don't so I think the
drivers here in
Denton actually quite friendly but the infrastructure is
just horrible and
again I don't want to be a doomsday kind of guy but someone
is going to get
seriously hurt and you know please do something now and be
ahead of the curb
rather than reactive to whatever is going to happen next
one more question
for you Commissioner Roswell thank you chair I'm not sure
if this is a question
more than an observation and I know the population here
speaking for bike
mobility is price self-selected in a lot of ways in terms
of following the rules
just today I had an individual on a bike run a stop sign
while saying left-hand
turn I nearly hit him but there's no adherence to the law
and so I wonder if
there's a way that is as we look to develop bike mobility
if education to be
part of that or structure because I don't want a few bad
apples to turn the
whole bunch but my wife got hit by cyclists that ran a stop
sign and so I
definitely think safety is a priority but I also want to
note that it goes
both ways and and I would love for those bad apples so to
speak not to ruin the
testimonies here because it's certainly in my opinion robs
me the wrong way
when that happens because I would like the law to go both
ways for drivers as
cyclists as we talk about transportation parity if I may
respond not directly
maybe but I completely agree with you I'm a big proponent
of having cyclists
that we hold each other accountable and that includes
following you know the
rules of the road and so on my personal experience is the
only way that changes
in any substantial way is by having more cyclists on the
road if you if you build
a model where you by definition restrict the number of cycl
ists you are going to
have these so-called bad apples on the road all the time if
you go to a city
like Amsterdam and I'm not trying to compare apples to
oranges but you have
hundreds of cyclists everywhere people yell at each other
if somebody makes a
mistake another rider will call you on it and I'd like to
get to a point where
we are you know where we have that sort of situation here
but my experience
again is it's only improved through the increase of riders
hip on roads sure
it's good point thank you for your comments our next
speaker is Doug Campbell
and be followed by Naomi wood thank you Commission for
listening to my comments
and thank you for the bike plan that we do have the bike
and pedestrian component
of the mobility plan I appreciate the Sharos that have been
added in the last
year so but Sharos are only give us your name and address
thank you sorry
Doug Campbell one two two three Bell me drive seven six two
zero one thank you
thank you so thank you for the Sharos that have been
implemented through the
mobility plan they are only a beginning the protective bike
lane is is the final
solution I believe as far as scoff laws and education I
want to address that
quickly that studies have shown that cyclists and drivers
break the laws that
the exact same rate actually but I'm a proponent of
education I just I'm a now
American League leave American bicycle is certified
instructor so I plan to
offer education classes in Denton so to encourage cyclists
to obey laws which we
should do we have the same rights on the roads but we also
have the same
responsibilities so I want to hone in on that I am a home
owner and I'm also a car
owner but my primary means of transportation is my bicycle
I ride to
work every day I shop my bike every day I drive my car
maybe once a week on
average two to five miles I fill my car up which is a Honda
Civic once every two
months so it's by choice that I ride a bike do want to say
that nationwide roads
are paid for 48% by road users those are all road users not
just car drivers 42%
by non road users and 10% by bonds so cyclists do have a
right to the road and
we do pay for the roads as well in case there was any kind
of idea that we don't
again I shop by bike every to every dollar that I spend on
my bicycle is
spent in the city of Denton anytime I get in my car I'm
leaving the city limits
I have no reason to drive my car within the city limits so
I don't but if I'm
getting in my car I'm spending money outside the city
limits I will say this
that every study has shown that more dollars are spent by
cyclists per trip
to businesses to local businesses also Denton is number two
in the percentage
of bike commuters in the state of Texas for the cities of
100,000 to 200,000
people and actually it's number three statewide we have 1.1
percent commuters
in Denton Austin has 1.3 percent number one city in the
state of Texas is
College Station at 3.7 percent that's nothing to laugh at 1
.1 percent it's
significant most people say if they build it they will come
Denton is unique
in that they're already here we're already riding we just
ask that you
build more and more will come Detroit added 150 miles of
bike lanes since 2006
they increase the riders ridership by 400 percent add more
lanes you add more
riders thank you
one question for you Commissioner Dunowitz yes I'm just
curious with your
experience you're a instructor also I'm sorry you're an
instructor you said I
certified to teach bicycle education classes thank you I've
never taught one
though I just got certified Sunday okay okay in my long
life I've lived in a
city which required licenses for bicycle owners even which
city was that it was
in Beloit Wisconsin okay now having said that part of that
licensing came in
education process similar to drivers license would you be a
proponent of that
in our city I would not be a proponent of licensing I would
I would be shocked
if you're if the city that you just named still requires
licensing every
city that is brought that up in the last I will say 20 to
30 years has shot it
down under trying to figure out how to implement something
like that if your
city's the city that you just named still does that I would
be shocked
interesting but it does bring us to a place where we could
assure proper
education so that people are like the state of Texas I was
just thinking of
both sides of this I mean they were proponents on both yes
yes so we need
education how do we do that and make sure that people get
it correctly also
the licensing process will also help identify stolen
bicycles and other
issues and a way to track people who were the bad actors in
the city so it's
something else to think about down the road don't know if
it plays well but
it's just a thought thank you I'd like to address that if I
may sure some of
your comments there are nationwide online bike registration
programs already I
could name you three now if you'd like and which the UNT
police and the city
of Denton police encourages all cyclists to register their
bikes on these online
databases that's the first question they're going to ask is
what is your
serial number and did you register your bike as far as bike
education the state
of Texas once required bike education but they stopped
doing that in the early
80s unfortunately stopped that I wish they would continue
that cities like
Washington DC require bike education in their elementary
schools so hopefully
that be something perhaps the didn't ISD might consider I
believe that drivers
and cyclists need bike education on what are what what are
the rules of the road
I think it's important thank you for your comments thank
you
Naomi would so our next speaker followed by Patrick O'Con
nor okay we'll move her
to the end in case she comes back Patrick O'Connor followed
by Guy
Klossner hello I'm Patrick O'Connor I live at 405 Westway
Street here in
Denton at 76201 let's see I moved into Denton I made the
choice to move to
Denton in 2014 July specifically for your bike friendliness
city I'm from
West Fort Worth while Fort Worth has a wonderful bike plan
they have lots of
infrastructure it's really only built around downtown I
work in Dallas have
for 15 years same job I got tired of spending five hours a
day in a commute
to the office I also really enjoyed the idea that maybe I
could cut that down to
two and then turn around and spend my cash right here I own
a car it's not a
new car it's an old car I don't need anything more than
that I rent cars
locally to drive out of the state bike infrastructure going
forward on all
plans for roads should be in place just the fact that you
have two colleges what
the kids riding around or young adults and then you have
people like me and the
guys are showing up here there are people who are not here
tonight you don't
even know this is happening I agree that it's frustrating
to ride along a
cyclist and blow a stop sign it frustrates me I call them
out when I can
what we need to do is enforce the laws we have write more
tickets to your
cyclist I'll pay a ticket if I get it just like those guys
with the license in
their cars it is a lifestyle in a way I see old ladies who
smile at me who I
wouldn't see otherwise if I was in my car I don't have any
answer to specifics
this road that road I ride wherever it's the most
convenient for me and the
safest I'm sure there's plenty of people you could take a
poll on and get all
that information but I do suggest to continue to build
roads with the idea
that cyclists and pedestrians are on these roads and their
safety is at hand
I loved it and I love the idea that I can ride everywhere I
can't say that
enough all year long whether cold a little bit of snow ice
or not I'm on
there let's make it safe for everybody thank you thank you
for your comments
in the next speaker be guy Klosner followed by Annalisa Var
gas
guy Klosner live at 4124 Celine Drive Denton 76209 and let
's see where to
start we'll just start with the most recent I work on the
south side of
Denton Airport Road also a death trap and there's a very
short what do you
call it place where people walk sidewalk very short
sidewalk that doesn't actually
go down to the Peterbilt the Tetra Pak the fast and all the
target distribution
center the all day distribution center which is further
down there and I do
see a lot of people who presumably work down there who are
walking some people
who are cycling and that's that's pretty brave to cycle
there I do it as much as
I can but of course there are so many trailers that go down
there a lot and
the shoulder is maybe this wide and because it hasn't been
up kept as much
as one would like there's overgrowth but you know ruins the
shoulder in some
places and so yeah that's I would like to see be at least
you know widens make
a wider shoulder and the other thing I really wanted to
point out was that in
Houston they have on at least all of the 30 mile an hour z
oned roads that I've
seen when I was in Houston for a short time they had when
it when it's like a
two-lane or more the right lane is like bicycle may use
full lane which I don't
see any downside to that like it would let drivers know
that you know bicycles
belong on the road there's another lane you can change
lanes very easily and just
you know pass the bike and be on your way and not force
cyclists who are going
you know up up and down Elm or locust or hickory and oak to
use the I think they
call it an urban shoulder or on hickory and oak there are
bike lanes so yeah
just a bicycle may use full lane on on two lane 30 mile an
hour zoned roads
with with like you know two lanes that would be great and
you know some well
wider shoulders where possible would be excellent as well
what else oh yeah
Hinkle Hinkle is awful like you need a mountain bike to go
on Hinkle and that
just seems like like it was a bike lane on both sides and
it's just like been
able to fall into just repair I'd like to see that change
thanks
my name is Anna Lisa Vargas I live at 4124 Saline Drive
Denton Texas 76 209
I've been commuting by bicycle in Denton since around 2009
when I started going
to UNT currently I ride about 50 miles a week from the very
north side of Denton
just south of 28 usually to the center of Denton or to kind
of the south side
just before you hit 35 I've toured and cycled in multiple
other cities and
other countries with varying amounts of infrastructure and
I echo the sentiments
that pretty much everyone else here has stated to you guys
one model that I
think would be of use is I toured in Scotland for two weeks
in May this year
and in the last couple years they have implemented the
sustainable transit plan
or they call it Sustrans and part of that was implementing
bike paths and
routes in all the cities big and small in Scotland and
linking those cities
together and much like here they had a lot of old existing
infrastructure and
part of that plan was to figure out how to make bicycle
routes within that
existing infrastructure now there was new construction on
roads implementing
bike lanes and things like that but one of the major things
that I noticed there
would they had numbered routes that had signposts
throughout the city and
between cities that's you know were numbered so you were on
route number five
and it would kind of guide you along routes that were
alternative to the
major routes of transport by cars so these would be kind of
roundabout ways
to get throughout towns using lesser known roads and with
this they didn't
have to implement like set build separate bike lanes or you
know things
that cost a lot of money and take a lot of time to
implement it was simply just
rerouting people through safer safer routes and I think
something like that
might be of use in Denton along with other proposed changes
so if you think
about major places in Denton that people need to get to the
universities razor
ranch places on 288 schools if we implemented some sort of
different route
system that helped guide people who are not brave enough to
ride in the current
map then that might help encourage people to take up
cycling and meet other
cyclists in a common in a common route so I think that
should be something that
y'all should consider and look at more closely as the Cest
rans model that was
implemented in Scotland thanks thank you I don't see any
questions appreciate
your comments I'm going to circle back around to Naomi
would you don't know if
she's come back or not no I'll just read her comments into
the record then she
did wish to speak she marked her card is in opposition I
want more protected
barrier lanes that make it easier for me and my child to
make it to school
safely every day my next card is from Brett Gabriel wishing
to speak again
this is going to public hearing if you'd like to speak
please fill out a yellow
card I have one more that does not wish to speak so this
will be our last person
that wishes to speak that's filled out a yellow card so if
you would like to
speak on this item please fill out a yellow card and bring
that up front
thank you sir hi there I'm Brett Gabriel I live at 1023
South Welch Street here
in Denton Texas zip code 76 201 I came to Denton to attend
UNT about five years
ago now love the city it's I came from Houston and I
considered a bit of a step
up but when I first came here I wasn't I didn't ride bikes
at all it wasn't
something I did but as I settled into my life here and
where I was living at the
time it and you know needing to get to school I had I would
have to drive
somewhere and I didn't want to pay for parking so I'd park
somewhere off campus
and take the bus in and it it took a lot of time getting
the class I had to
accommodate a lot for that and I decided to give cycling a
try I saw people on
bikes you know just going around town going around campus
and I started doing
that and I actually found that I was able to get from my
apartment at the
time to class or to work which was chicken express right
there on Eagle I
was able to get to work in less time and I found a doing so
riding to work or
class instead of just driving it improves my health and I
feel like that's
a story that'll be very common for that you'll hear from
other cyclists if you
ever you know get their take on it so for me cycling was
very important and I
would like to see it grow in the city where I started
riding just kind of add
to that earlier today while I was riding home I this was on
Welch Street and
approaching Eagle I was almost hit by a car wasn't actually
hit nothing happened
I was able to get their attention in time but they almost
turned out of a
parking lot and to me as I was riding down the road in the
right lane so they
pretty much across the entire road to almost hit me I feel
that there is a
lack of education which was brought up earlier and I feel
when you want to if
you want to teach people how to you know and to act
appropriately around cyclists
or how cyclists should behave on the road I think it'd be
very important to
work with the universities on that on that kind of thing
they're bringing on a
lot of new students such as myself and when I first started
I didn't really
know what I was doing I was pulled over a few times for not
having lights given
the warning since I was new but I feel like that's that's
the right thing to do
and I have I have run a stop I have run stop signs in the
past I'm guilty of
that and I've been ticketed for that and it was the right
thing I wasn't being
safe and I've learned my lessons since then and I try to
follow as many of the
traffic laws as I can while still keeping my safety in mind
thank you thank
you I don't have any questions from anybody thank you sir
appreciate your
comments the last card I have this evening is from Brandon
Babbitt 2500 West
Hickory apartment 24 in support supports addition of bike
lane mandates and
future road construction in the mobility plan as an active
cyclist who
lives on biking that's the last card I have so far this is
a public hearing
anyone else that would like to speak please come forward
and then you can
fill out a yellow card after your comments please come to
the microphone if
you will give us your name and address and when you're
finished you can fill
out a yellow card over here thank you my name is my name is
my name is Francis
Chen I'm at 709 Chateau Court 76209 a lot of speakers have
spoken very
eloquently and very in with a lot of passion as far as how
they feel about
the infrastructure as well as as a typical end user of so
many services
it's I use what I see I started out as a person with no car
and only a bicycle
now I drive a station wagon and I and I and I cycle for for
pleasure the one
thing that I haven't heard as concretely that I'd like to
put on the table is is
I've lived in San Marcos and in Austin which is largely a
bicycle friendly
communities both of them having said that the the
philosophical take there is
is your illegal user of the road so you obey the rules and
you get the right to
the road what I applaud about the city of Denton and I hope
Denton doesn't sit
sit on his laurels and continues to grow in this is that it
actually advocates and
looks out for the cyclists and that's what I've been seeing
in the last few
years and that's the comment that I wanted to make I have
one question for
you not a question Commissioner Detowitz not it's not a
question I can hold my
comments till after public oh sir for your comments in this
public hearing
anybody who would like to speak please come down state your
name and address
and then after your comments if you'll fill out a yellow
card appreciate it
where's brand new prey I live at a 1002 North Bonnie Bray
Street in Texas I'm an
owner of a bicycle shop called Sprockets Bicycle Shop we
started five years ago I
moved here about seven eight years ago for school and I
mean we started at a
little hole in the wall spot we're paying 900 bucks didn't
have AC or
anything I think we grossed probably 15,000 that year now
we're about ten
times that I have these stories are countless of people who
have come Denton
from a you know suburban wasteland and and discovered a new
lease on life or a
new a new way of getting around new way of just you know
exploring their their
surroundings and I think would be a real shame to to not
kind of see and take the
progressive stance as to see a society you know least
locally that we can kind
of see that would see kind of passive petroleum kind of
base economy and I
think that you know the success of my business and
everything that the city
of Denton has given for me just means that I want to you
know be able to
support that and and I think that owning a bike shop and
you know supporting the
the local community is the best way I could do that thank
you thank you
against public hearing anyone who'd like to speak please
come down at this time
seeing no one else I'm going to close the public hearing
and I will open the
floor for discussion or emotion commissioner Dudowitz thank
you chair
just some comments to the biking community and to the
general public but
first I was a biker bicycles so my daughter decided my bike
was better than
hers and I haven't seen my bicycle in three years now I
plan to get it back
number a couple of things that that we as a commission over
the years and I'm
sure it's been longer for some of the commissioners up here
than myself we've
been wrestling with this day-to-day frustration streets and
congestion and
one of the things that was eye-opening to me early on to
come to find that most
of our major streets and thoroughfares in Denton are owned
by county or the
state so those death traps out there that you talk about
also affect us car
owners to yeah McKinney Teasley University Drive state-
owned and
maintained and what they want to do with those is their
rights and we've had
frustrations with that as we looked at many times of road
conditions but I must
say that when we get an opportunity this commission has
asked for bicycle racks
thanks to miss Briegel and every development that we see
having said
that we're still measuring in on this issue because this is
a big in all of
our discussions if we in fact this mobility plan has been
in front of us
under how many months months and so we've addressed and
readdressed and
addressed it again and again I'm not sure where we are
exactly but let you
know that from to the public we hear you and taking a lot
of that into
consideration the road conditions for instance I mean I
know what you have to
go through because we have to drive over them also and have
to walk on them and
they're not great I can't imagine what they're like for
bicycles it's
something that we we bring up as much as we can so we're
with you in that respect
and any comments you bring to us we take seriously so thank
you for for
participating and giving us your comments Commissioner Rose
lle thank you
chair I first just wanted to say thank you for everyone to
show up and
comments it was especially helpful to me to hear the
context in which you each
encounter the pedestrian and bicyclist traffic to that end
I want to throw out
maybe to Commissioner Briegel or to someone else in the
Commission two weeks
ago and this came to the Commission there was no one in
attendance for
bicycle advocacy and it seemed as though there's some
statements in the work
session last week that spawned some involvement this week
which I think is
great but I wonder if there's a way that we can be more
directly out there for
y'all so that that we doesn't come to a postponement then a
Facebook group to
get this level of support I would have loved to seen two
weeks ago and if this
comes up again in the future you all be aware and someone
mentioned that that you
had friends that weren't aware of what was going on and I
just I would suggest
if there's a way that we can get to the bike community
better because again this
was helpful for me to hear and I'm thankful that y'all came
and provided
that context to me personally and so I just wanted to see
if there's a
disconnect that can be remedied in terms of getting y'all
more vocal more often
in these discussions and the second thing I wanted to talk
about real
briefly is there's there's counter talk earlier about a
hundred percent
feasibility and whether that's pie in the sky or a
legitimate goal and to be
honest I don't know it seems a little idealistic but
nevertheless maybe
something we strive for but that's it to that end miss Var
gas brought up a great
point of bike routes being a potential solution and I don't
know about the bike
plan and maybe someone who's on that committee could speak
to if there was
the idea of carving out popular routes as a priority in
terms of the mobility
plan to see if we can see the high traffic and target those
and to Mr.
Dudowitz point the ones that we can control if there's ways
that we can
intervene and prioritize based on maybe some ideal routes
through the city I'm
asking more questions and I'm providing solutions for I
understand but I just
wanted to put those two points out there I'd like to
address your first
point I think the reason why a lot of people didn't know is
because this was
not noticed for the bicycle and pedestrian component of the
mobility
plan this was only noticed for the addition of the roadways
so I think that
we would be out of line to tie a condition for the bicycle
component to
this particular item that we have on the agenda now if you
want to see that on
the project matrix to have it come up for discussion on
amendment of the
bicycle component then we can do that at a later time but
for the item that we
have on today it's only as to the updated road provisions
that we have in
the packet unfortunately I see a lot of people came out
today and it's truly
appreciated but might be used a little bit later when we
can take up that issue
but right now I don't think that we can take up that issue
not only that but it
would also require an amendment to the DDC what you're
proposing
Commissioner Brigham thank you chair so that segues into
what my question was
going to be because what I'm hearing from the public is
that they don't have
many or any major concerns with the where the roads are
going in fact the
the concerns that were brought up a few weeks ago by some
citizens about how the
proximity of post oak to Clear Creek has that's been remed
ied that's been moved
further west and there's some support for that that route
as well for post oak
but what I'm hearing from the public is that that they they
do want going back to
my questions with PS about adding requiring bike lanes to
be or bike
accommodations to be added to the design criteria manual
can that be an
amendment to our our mobility plan no it has to those
actually require a certain
process within our code and there is a specific process for
amending criteria
manual that can be done and then also the bicycle component
can come in front
of you for the mobility plane we just have to notice it
properly that would be
another public hearing that would be another that point how
long would that
take for something like that to come to us like if we're
approving the mobility
plan tonight I just I don't want us to get behind again so
how long would it
take to bring something like that maybe that's a question
yeah maybe we can
bring that up when we do our future agenda tonight and we
can add that as an
item to the matrix and then we can get with staff on a time
frame to do that
suggestion okay well I want you to know this is all this
was all heard and you
know we have our bicycle and pedestrian coordinators
sitting in here this evening
we have a council person sitting in here this evening and
and when we get to the
end of tonight's meeting when we can request items for a
future consideration
you can be assured that I will ask for this to be to be
considered and if you'd
like to come again that's great if not I want you to know I
heard you and I will
remember each and every one of your faces and the things
that you said to
answer your question earlier though Commissioner Rozelle
about bike paths I
don't recall when I served on the bike plan task force
there being a discussion
about bike paths through the city we note well not we have
we have one just
one remember the old railroad Commissioner Dudowitz oh yes
thank you
oh my gosh we're here to Lake Dallas I mean yeah I think is
what the concept is
there is a dedicated bike path yeah goes rural but you are
allowed to cross off
and go into you know is it a city and stuff like yeah the
focus really was on
how to retrofit where we have what retrofit bike
accommodations on the roads
that we have but you're right the rail trail is absolutely
a fantastic one it
goes right through the heart of Denton so that's all I have
to say thank you
Commissioner Beck yes thank you chair I just want to join
all my fellow
commissioners and thanking everyone y'all for coming out
tonight this is an
enthusiastic to see I'm a biker I'm not a real professional
you know get on the
road type stuff but I like to bike around my little town or
and I enjoy it
and I've always been like that so I am a little
disappointed to hear that we can
we can't put an amendment to this thing tonight but I will
thoroughly be with
Commissioner Briegel to get something on the agenda as soon
as we can and back
it completely so again thank you so much for coming out
tonight
Commissioner Dudowitz follow-up on Ms. Briegel's comment
and Larry's about
where we put this in the process how do I say this maybe it
's more political than
anything else but right now when our streets are designed
and to be built
there's no oversight the engineering department can build
what they want when
they want it and there's no oversight I am proposing I have
just had
discussions but it's not yet formalized it that a
commission such as this or a
public commission review the plan for logic and for types
of things that say
wait a minute where is the bicycle path why are we cutting
out a entrance to a
shopping center why are we blocking this and why is that
media in there because I
can't have access into this or that and right now there's
currently no oversight
for that process now they do take into consideration
comments made in open
house discussions or in whatever discussions neighborhood
discussions
to have but when they start to break ground there's no
oversight so I think
maybe this is a process by which we can you know think and
put in place that we
have people that ask where are the bicycle paths where are
the bicycle
routes in this particular design and sometimes it may or
may not be
accommodated but at least we have some oversight some view
some input to that
process so I'm looking forward to putting that in place
within the next
year and look for some port from various council people as
well as
commissioners thank you commissioner Hussbuss thank you so
again I want to
echo everyone else's sentiments that the the activity is is
much appreciated the
insight very much appreciated I don't know that I have
three bikes in my
garage and that's where I stay so it's it really helps me
because I'm living
vicariously through you and so the information is as well
received and I am
a I appreciate the difference it makes because I get a
little closer to trail
there and I've seen the sense of community the people
passing through and
I enjoy it very much to that end I really would and I don't
know who kind
of facilitates this city see why and then also I solicit
from anyone that
spoke tonight to email me the the pads through through didn
't that function
well because I think I'm more of a practical application my
mind just
thinks that way and I think scripture is very busy because
there's no red lights
so when I lived on Bonnie Bray and I needed to get from
here to there quickly
you go down scripture because you have one stops on there
by mr. chopsticks and
then you're good all the way to pass frosty you know so
those are things that
we need to I think mr. Briggle touched on it's a cultural
thing so it's it's
kind of traffic patterns and flows and and how do we
incorporate that into a
good plan that allows bike riders to get to where they're
going safely so I would
solicit any information via email on on pathing you know if
you're riding to
school this street works well because absent being able to
get 100% approval
I would like to be able to speak intelligently about this
road is one
that is absolutely key and even when you're looking at the
mobility plan it
focuses on new roads that are on neighborhoods that aren't
here yet so I
want to look at actual roads that are ongoing that we can
affect sooner than
later and have a tangible application to change those
traffic patterns and with
that I just need information because I can't the time it'll
take me to gather
it myself and it's just not realistic so someone that's
doing it every day proves
of great value for me to understand which roads we need to
focus on and hone
in on so and I think and yeah and I so I think that's
everything that jumped out
of me that I so I don't know who helps with that but I'd
love to see it thank
you Commissioner Bruegel thank you chair so I think if we
're wrapping up the
discussion I'm ready to make a motion on this but before I
do I want you to know
that I am very much committed to seeing that the reality of
100% of our roads
having some sort of bike accommodation there you are all
every one of you in
this room is a taxpayer you you have paid for these roads
and every single
one of you has spoken in favor of more bike accommodations
so we ought to make
that a reality we owe that to you the citizens the
taxpayers to make that
happen unfortunately I can't I guess legally add that to my
motion tonight
but I want you to know I'm gonna bring it up here in a
minute so I move for
approval of the mobility plan with that the option of the H
ickory Creek addition
to the south and option a for the post oak addition not
option one but option a
that takes it north and to the west yeah and that would be
that's my motion
just a clarification Commissioner Bruegel what about
Collins oh pardon me I thank
you Collins yet thank you chair so Collins was was not
included in the
mobility plan for this evening so I would like to also not
include that in
my motion thank you for the clarification Commissioner Rose
lle I
second the motion as Commissioner Bruegel stated so elo
quently yes we have a
first and a second any further discussion or comments no
more okay I
will call for a vote on the board the motion passes six to
zero that will take
us to our final item for this evening to do our concluding
items Commissioner
Bruegel thank you chair I would like something to be added
to the matrix for
us to review the design criteria manual to ensure that all
future road
construction in Denton requires some bike accommodation in
addition to
sidewalks thank you the bicycle component of the mobility
yes ma'am and
every review of the bicycle component thank you
Commissioner Roselle thank you
chair it is my understanding from Julie Anderson that the
bike counts that have
been done over the seven sites back in September would be
available this month
I would request a report from perhaps Julie Anderson if it
's applicable from
her to provide the the bike counts from that study back in
September
Commissioner Bruegel thank you chair I also have meaning to
bring this up
there's a tiny house movement that's really taken off in a
lot of the denser
urban areas and I'm not quite clear in our development code
if tiny houses are
allowed because there's a certain lot coverage that's
required and I just to
be clear that these are not necessarily out buildings such
as like a garage
apartment but I'm just wondering if we I don't think we
have anything in our
development code that clearly defines a tiny house and or
if they are permissible
in the city limits I was just kind of curious if we could
explore that are you
talking if I could just clarify that for the record are you
talking about with a
primary structure or standalone I'm like a grandmother pod
or no no no no no like
as a standalone I mean I've seen you probably seen these in
dense urban
areas where they have tiny houses kind of all lined up and
they create little
neighborhoods of tiny houses so just if we could explore
that in the future
thank you any other items for our future agenda
sure with regard to Commissioner Bruegel and Commissioner
Roselle's request on
the information on the design criteria manual the bicycle
component of the
mobility plan and the bike counts we will get with the
relevant departments
and we will coordinate that activity with them and try and
get you that
information so as soon as we have some timelines from them
coordinate that
seeing no other comments I'm going to close our planning
and zoning commission
meeting tonight at 850 thank you all for coming out and
sharing your comments