Nov 18, 2015 Planning and Zoning Commission on 2015-11-18 5:00 PM

November the 18th. It's five o'clock and our meeting is du ly posted and we have a quorum present and our first order of business is to receive a report on our agenda items and I will turn that over to Manal for presentation please. Thank you Chairperson Strange. First item is the preliminary plan for fireside perk addition. I'm going to ask Julie Wyatt to present this. Good evening. Okay y'all may remember this project it was a zoning case earlier in the year. For some of you you may remember it was a zoning case earlier in the year. They've now come back and their preliminary platting and then you'll see a final plat. There are actually doing it in phases. Phase one and then phase two will be second so it's 101 lots and I'll stand for any questions if you have them. It is a gated community in case you are. Commissioner Beck. Thank you Chair. I just have one question. How big are these houses? These lots look pretty small. It meets the density requirements. Subchapter 5 does allow for instead of minimum lot size requirements a density requirement for the zoning district and it does meet them. I'm not quite sure what the final product of the houses will be but I think the intent is to have smaller lots with more open space that's community-owned. They've got walking trails and more park amenities and smaller lots. Has it been suggested that these might be starter homes? It's actually going to be an age restricted 55 and older so I believe and and I don't see the applicant here but I believe their intent is to have an HOA that maintains all the open spaces for all the lot so they 're more of a smaller lot footprint. Thank you. Sure. Any other questions on this item? Thank you Julie. All right thank you. Thank you Julie. The next item is the preliminary plat of the courts of Bonnie Bray. I'm going to ask Mike Bell, our senior planner, to make this presentation. Thank you Manal. This is a preliminary plat for the courts of Bonnie Bray. It's a residential subdivision. We are proposing I believe 106 residential lots kind of off South Bonnie Bray and Island Park. Kind of unique aspect of this plat is you'll see the future excuse me expansion and realignment of Bonnie Bray here to the west side of the property. They have provided access to other residential zone properties here here as well as to the south and will connect to Highland Park to the north. I'll stand for any questions. Commissioner Beck. On the are there it says there's three existing drilling and production sites. Correct. Can you show me all three on this map because I can only locate two and I'm sure they're all up here. For the ordinance requires that any gas well drilling site within a thousand feet be marked on the plat. So we have one shown here. This is an existing gas well pad site. We have one here that has three existing wells and approval for one more and then we have one pad site that's not yet been developed but it has been approved as part of their gas well plat. Okay the fact that it's been approved then does that got to follow the reverse setback? I believe it was approved prior to the reverse setback being in place. Okay. So it follows the rules of when it was the gas well plat was approved. So it can be within 250 or it can be at 250 feet? Yeah but it's actually meeting this. If you read the dimension here I can zoom into it but all these are exceeding the setback requirements. They're getting pretty close on this lot but they've they've kind of designed it so that no houses can be designed can be built there. Thank you. I have a question. Commissioner Roselle. Thank you. You mentioned that they have the new Bonnie Bray cut in. It looks like that new Bonnie Bray is gonna hit that gas pad site or is it set to move or what what happens in a conflict area like that? That's a good question. Earl do you have anything to add on that? It could be that it was it could be that it was purchased and then maybe they're not they've abandoned their plans to do that well but it is showing up on their gas well plat and so we made them reflected on on this plat. That's correct. That would have been handled during the right away acquisition process and I'm sure I don't know the legalities of what's involved and when they purchased the right away with a gas well plot being approved. There's no gas wells located on it. Okay. So potentially there wouldn't be an issue with like capping out a gas well or anything like that. There's no gas well facilities on this on that pad side. Thank you. Any other questions on this item? Thank you Mike . Mike would you go ahead and dive into the next preliminary plat for Villa Cad ena edition please. This is the preliminary plat Villa Cadena edition. This is as part of the McKinney-Dinton Apartments the SUP you saw just a bit ago. This reflects their act their two access points onto McKinney and their internal drive that matches their site plan that you reviewed several weeks ago . Well, stand for any questions if you have any. Thank you Mike. Thank you. Seeing none I just wanted to make the Commission aware of a calendar the Planning and Z oning Commission calendar for next year. It's for attach for your review and consideration at regular meeting. Additionally when we look at our public hearing items, items A, B, C have been withdrawn by the applicant and that being said we do have a final replant for Calhoun edition and I'm sorry Mike you shouldn't have if Mike could go ahead and present that for us too. Since these have been withdrawn we're not doing any continuation. This will be FR 1516 it's the Calhoun edition. This is kind of a mouthful but it is a replant of three separate subdivisions the Mount second edition, high school edition, the Calhoun middle school edition and then a piece of unplatted property that's shown in the deed records. Texas local government code requires that any public hearing or that public hearing be held for a replant that's why we're here instead of on consent agenda. Also this qualifies as a residential replant because the zoning limits the property to no more than two units per lot or duplexes so that's why we sent written notice to property owners within the original subdivision and within 200 feet. The site is shown here in yellow. It's near the Pecan neighborhood there's Carol here so it's further to the east. This is Calhoun middle school right here. These are the Calhoun middle school tennis courts. They're included within the plat. Give you kind of a representation of where these plats are included. The red is the high school edition. It's kind of orange is the Calhoun middle school edition. The purple is Mount second and then the small 30 foot strip of unpl atted land and we'll see this is really the reason why this plat is happening but I'll get into that here in a minute. They're kind of it's kind of threefold why we're here. One is to subdivide that 30 foot strip shown here between the abut ting property owners. Two is to convey and subdivide a part of the Calh oun middle school addition to the property owners abutting to the north and south and Lashley is to establish new legal boundaries for the three lots on Anderson Street that are included in the plat. This is the zoomed in on a proposed plat. It's got a lot stuff going on so I'll kind of walk you through it very quickly. Here's that 30 foot strip of unplatted land. Part of this is right away dedication because it was never officially dedicated. They're doing that at this point. The reason we're here is this property owner came in for a building permit. His fence line is actually shown here. It's been developed that way for decades. Came in for a permit for a driveway. We discovered that his plat didn't match what his deed showed and actually further investigation showed that Dent on ISD actually owned the strip of land. So we have a meeting with Denton ISD and the three property owners to the south. We all got together and Denton ISD said they didn't want it. They were willing to convey it over so we had to do the replat. Additionally they had a - I'm sorry let me back up. So this is where they agreed to divide it. Pretty much following the fence line. The north 20 feet goes to the property owner on Amarillo Street and be subdivided kind of like this for the property owners to the south. Next the IS D had a portion within the Calhoun Middle School addition and also 30 feet but they didn't want any more either. So we met with the property owner to the north . The property owner to the south said do you want it? They said yes we do. So Denton ISD has agreed to divide that evenly. This reflects the alignment that everybody agreed upon. And then lastly the third purpose is according to the plat for the Mounts addition approved back in the 19 teens the property lines are actually kind of here where this blue is and they've been built and sold over time into three lots and so now we're just correcting that and we'll move the property lines to where they're currently reflected in the deeds. Final product looks something like this here. This will be the property lines. Reflects current development. This reflects the agreement everybody had with the ISD and adjacent property owners. Because it meets all the requirements we will be recommending approval. I'll stand for any questions. Commissioner Beck. Just one question it says the ISD agreed to convey the disputed property so they're just giving it to them. They're selling it to the price to file the deed I think is five dollars. Five dollars? Okay. Thank you. Thank you Mike. Commissioner Br ito hold on just a second. Thanks Chair. No I really honestly it's just a comment more than a question. I was having such a hard time trying to figure out what this case was about so thank you for this excellent staff presentation. It was curious. Thank you. This is one of the more complex plans. Anybody else? Thank you Mike. Thank you. Commissioners if you recall we had a work session to discuss amending the Denton Development Code to add assembly halls, clubs and lodges as a list of zoning uses within our Denton Development Code. If I can ask Julie Wyatt to just give you a brief a briefing on that just to refresh your jogging memories. All right so the request before you tonight is to consider making a recommendation to City Council regarding an amendment to the Denton Development Code for the assembly halls, clubs and lodges to add that to the list of permitted of uses in subchapter 5 and then also revise the definition for semi-public halls, clubs and lodges. Just a bit of background if you recall in the over the last year or so staff has been approached by several individuals developers to develop facilities to accommodate private functions in more rural or non-commercial type areas. This type of use could include private events such as weddings, banquets, meetings. The activities associated with the use typically involve catering, alcohol sales and for on-site consumption and then and typically they're live or recorded entertainment of some type. The Denton Development Code does not have a use that accurately describes these activities. So in our previous discussion about it we've we talked about revising and existing use and that use the semi-public halls, clubs and lodges. This use includes all of those activities that are associated with the typical assembly hall but but this use limits it only to nonprofits . So staff is recommending that we remove that nonprofit portion of it and retain and also and rename the use to assembly halls, clubs and lodges and just keep the structure facility owned or operated for special education, educational or recreational purposes. This will encompass all of those activities but it will broaden who can take take advantage of this use not only not for profits but for-profit entities as well. We're also recommending that the use be treated in the same manner as the existing semi-public halls, clubs and lodges. So for instance in our rural districts it would be not permitted in RD5 but permitted in rural commercials. It would be permitted in NR 1 through NR6 with an SUP, NRMU 12 with a limitation and then NRMU it would be permitted by right. Staff feels that this retaining this specific use permit requirement is very important in the residential areas. It allows additional scrutiny for the use so if they if someone wanted to come develop an assembly hall club or lodge within more of a residential area or a rural well low or high or low density residential they would have to submit for a specific use permit and that use would staff would review it we would follow the zoning procedure so it would come to you for a recommendation and then it would go to City Council for approval and it would allow us to look at the intensity that they want to use the property for the scale of any buildings architecture landscaping lighting any of those uses or any of those activities or development of the property that could potentially create a nuisance for adjacent property owners are not being keeping with the with the land use pattern so it would allow us to give a little more scrutiny to that use. Downtown would be permitted by right and community mixed use would be permitted by right. Regional mixed use permitted and employment centers and industrial would be permitted. So based upon our discussions and staff analysis we do recommend approval of this code amendment and I'll stand for any questions. Thank you Julie. The last item on our work session is to discuss the City of Denton's mobility plan I'm going to ask PS to come forward and update the Commission. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you. Okay we had covered a lot of items already and last week on Friday, Wednesday in the special call meeting I had we had gone through and looked at some other items there are some questions that came up after the meeting from Mr. Bentley and I had responded to them there are three items I wanted to talk about so we are ready for days in the public hearing later on. The first one is the post-doc option and second will be the Collins Rainier Road extension and what I have given you is a code order which I found it you know it was ten years back and I'll go through that in a minute and then the last one was the Golden Circle Cooper Creek Road extension which is in the north part north of loop 288 in that part of the city. So I'll go through all of them quickly. Are we able to see it properly? Okay. So on post-doc road in the last week's discussion on Wednesday we agreed that we were going to go and use the option A which is what I have in my write-up as part of the recommendation because this goes in a green field right now there is some development here and we will not be cutting through that. We will not be using you know this option that is shown right here. So that's the post-doc. The second one is the issue. And larger a little more so we I can see it a little better . Yeah. Okay. What you have in front of you is the code order that basically city of Den Den County agreed on closing off this crossing on Collins. That was done so that city could get a crossing in the southern part that's how they work and there's a lot more back and forth that happened at that time. There was issues of annexation and I don't believe city agreed to not annex the property sometime in the future but it's been ten years since that was agreed on in the Commissioner's Court. It used to be in the county and it still is in the county since it is not annexed. So what we have done is we took away that extension of Lakeview going north this way and also we took away this Laney Road that was going to come back and tie in here into Collins. So Collins stays as it is no change in the way it is right now. So that takes care of that comment we got from Mr. Bentley and we have actually supporting document to show that yes that is correct. During when we were doing this the team as well as it goes around it went in the city hall and people looked at it sometimes you say it you still don't see it. So it kind of came you know this far out but thanks for pointing it out and I did some research and we were very quickly were able to find it surprisingly. And then the last item that we had was on this golden circle and Cooper Creek Road. Yes it any extensions we do in the city anywhere we do it's going to go through a property. It can be a you know very large tract of land or it can be lots of small parcels of land but it will go through some property. This as we know you know is a very long-term connection right here it could be 20 years or 30 years before this happens. Things change during that time things change in the families at that time. We have seen properties that you know we purchased for our you know wastewater use which was in the country club road that went through you for the SUP and it was all in the family the families all over the country right now and we had to kind of get everybody together to buy that out. Who knows what will happen here in the future. So as part of the master plan we need to kind of account for based on the land use what is projected based on the land use based on the model that we did. We do have you know only we have 6,000 trips on Cooper Creek Road that we show. On this road majority of the trips are generated based on the land use the development that will happen here about a thousand trips. Do we need to absolutely show it? I can take it off if that is the Commissioner's direction you know to move this out we can take it out. Whenever they come in at that time you know they will need a collector road at that time whenever they develop the property. It's going to happen. So it's either way it's your call on that one and since only we show about a thousand trips on this right now which can be accommodated on Hartley Field Road or it can be accommodated on Cooper Creek Road. But whenever they develop they will need a collector within the property at that time. Yes I have a quick question for the benefit of the Commissioners as well as the audience. The exhibit that you're showing us isn't not reflected in the packet correct? Yes I need to clarify that. Right so that when we get to the point of recommendation the Commission is clear on what. Right what I'm going to show what you have in the packet calls this and it was my fault. I was doing this at probably 10 o'clock in the night on Thursday had to be out by Friday morning and I made it option A and B instead of calling it option two and three. So it reflects A and B matching to the AIS that you have in your packet and then it does not have this Collins connection. I mean what we have shows the Collins connection and this one doesn't because we found that just like in a matter of I think it was yesterday I was working on it finally got that actually that's when I got the information on it. So when we actually vote it will be based on this map that shows everything correctly which I 'll be presenting in the public hearing later on. So if there any questions I'll be happy to answer. Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you Chair. So PS just to be clear then option one is not an option. When we're looking at this tonight and making a motion option one is off the table. That's fantastic thank you. And so then where option A and B eventually kind of go west and then north again. Can you kind of zoom up on the north side of that I kind of want to see where that road goes. I'm curious if it will affect any future plans. Go north please. Oh north I'm sorry. More? I just want to kind of keep yeah so north I just want to see where it connects and I was just wondering if it is going to interfere with any future plans for the expansion of Clear Creek. I think don't they have plans for expanding their facility at some point in the future. The plant itself? The plant sits right here. We own this property this sits right here in this area. And so the one that's further west isn't going to interfere with any future plans that they have to expand Clear Creek? No this one. Okay. This is way outside and we are and we own this property kind of in this area right here. That's about 206 acres roughly. Okay thank you. And then can you go down last week we were talking about the the name of the road escapes me but it was on the south side we're looking at trying to build a bridge over and we were determining is that what it was? The Hickory Creek Road connection arterial right here. Yeah. So that is included as an option? Yes it is. This evening. Okay. I'm sorry. Yeah that's the one. Thank you. I was wondering what happened to my option. Yeah this is this is part of the recommendation. In fact if I show you the PowerPoint right here. Recommendation says that to approve the make recommendation to approve the travel demand model which was the basis of all of the update we did and update the mobility plan with option A for post-hoc road and the addition of the Hickory Creek arterial option. Thank you. Commissioner Dudowitz. Yes. Yes I read the your responses. Yes. To citizen Bentley's remarks and concerns. I see where you've laid you suggested that the consultants used an incorrect layer the map has been corrected and there were a number of other corrections made. My concern is are there any other errors that we have not been really looked at hard and how would that affect this plan? Are there any other errors or have you now reviewed everything? We try to . It's still a master plan and master plans are master plans. They over time as work is done we find things and then we come back and correct them. Just to give you example on the wastewater master plan we started that in 2008 and we still continue to find things that we keep going back and correcting it. So this is still a representation you know what you have is a representation. It is not a design. Whenever we get to that you get the final street on in the road at that time. I guess my concern still is that it takes a citizen to find these errors that we have professionals that and consultants that we pay good money to to do it the job right. Yeah these days there's so many layers that they work with. It happens that they can miss turning on a layer or turning off a layer like on the ETJ area. They had not turned off the ETJ part so it showed as a part of the city. So that was you know in the map that I have now it shows as in an ETJ area it's not in the not in the city limits. So that was corrected. Hartley Field Road the label was moved to the existing road and not in so the proposed road is still a continuation of that. That's minor stuff. So most of this and any other corrections are minor in the sense that it should not impact us in the next five years until we look at it again? Absolutely. Absolutely. Thank you. Any other questions? Thank you. Sure. Commissioner Rossell. On item four, items for individual consideration, what's the process? Do we vote on a calendar? Is that for feedback? Can you walk me through as a new individual how the calendar gets developed and what are we considering or what does the individual consideration mean to Commissioner? So this calendar determines the schedule for next year's PNC meetings and it is an opportunity for the PNC commissioners to review the calendar if they're comfortable with it should they have questions related to dates if they want to change any dates that are glaring at them right now you have the opportunity to do that and then the agenda gets approved so that we can post it on the website and do our dates accordingly as it relates to notification requirements and publications. Correct me if I'm wrong this 2015 we had PNC on the first Wednesday and third Wednesday generally? Generally there was some disconnects with that calendar however it is supposed to be the second and fourth. It's supposed to be the second and fourth? Yes. Okay that's I saw a discrepancy. Yes absolutely right. Okay thank you for the clarification. On that subject the only date that I saw that might be a concern I think there's a meeting on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving. I remember right. Correct and this is the opportunity to we can cancel the meeting or we can schedule something before prior to or move it to the 30th because we're not meeting the first week of December so that yes we can do that then we miss out on we miss out on our Thanksgiving party then I guess. Right. No turkey sandwiches before. Correct. Is everybody okay with that change? Just to clarify. Instead of the November 23rd we're going to move it to November the 30th. And are we would we really be meeting on December 28th? Why not? I can count ten good reasons. Because don't I mean don't normally we take like the last half of December. It's my understanding that in the past then that's how it has been done however if you look at the calendar and you look at the dates and the fact that we have to do our notifications in order and not have any disconnects with that I made the call to reflect that date there it is the choice of the Commission to either decide not to have that meeting or to change the date. It is the 28th which is quite a few days ahead of everything the festivities. Okay. You want to remove it? It's hard to see a year in advance but typically kids are out of school and it's pretty good vacation time. That's what I'm thinking. So I may not be here for that one but it's a year it's a year out. Y'all have fun. What's a vacation? So we're gonna leave it? To that point if we don't cancel it now at any point can we bring it under the agenda to reconsider or could it be like it just when we get to the 27th Jim just sends out an email saying. We're not meeting. No because we have to what if we have applicants who want to be scheduled on that meeting for public hearing so I would recommend or advise that we either I would like to meet that date either ahead or after I'm sorry Jennifer. I was just gonna suggest you take it off. Maybe Manal could explain you mentioned maybe the importance of it what was the justification? If we keep this on and you adopt this schedule you approve this schedule then applicants developers homeowners whoever is involved in a public hearing process will be tied to these dates so they will be if we have a notification requirement and they see this date scheduled then we would have to have this but prior to that you said looking at the dates and for consideration was there the thing sorry the thing you first said about this right so we have when we create our schedule for the PNZ and City Council meetings we also have to take into consideration our public hearing notices that have to go on because there's a process for those two for public hearing notices we have to publish within the newspaper 17 days in advance we also have to send out property owner notices 12 days in advance of the meeting published meeting so either we change the date or you eliminate the meeting tonight. Sorry Commissioner. I think we eliminated Commissioner Detilas. Two questions or two comments do we know what City Council agenda is for that week? I am I have not I've seen the calendar I don't know what okay if there and I noticed that this December we are not sitting at that time so then let's just cancel it now. Okay. Commissioner Back. Are we talking about December of next year? Yes. Well so sounds like some are considering eliminating the 28th altogether okay and just have the one PNZ meeting for the month? Which would be the 14th of December. We can do like we've done last week if we get into a situation and there's a big item that needs to be dealt with we can always schedule a meeting like we did last week it was a special call meeting and I think let's at least at this point let's take it off and we'll see what it looks like next November. Okay so for clarification November 23 is moving to November 30th December 28th is being cancelled all together. I would agree with that. Am I else okay with that ? Yes. Okay. Commissioner Rossell you have another? No, no, no, thank you. Merry Christmas Commissioner Bruegel. I guess the only other item I had made note of is on the minutes we've had a couple of different corrections and I know Commissioner Husband in here but Commissioner Bruegel were you okay with those corrections or did you get a chance to review the minutes? Yeah I was okay with the corrections I think there were I had two questions though about the minutes on the 21st is now a good time to go over them? We've got time today. Thank you. Just give me one second here to just collect my thoughts I usually look at the minutes first so it's been a couple of days since I've looked at them again. If we want to take a break and get our food and then come back to that we can do that too. No I think I got it. Thanks. Yeah okay so October 21st page 4 lines 28 to 31. 28 through 31. Mm-hmm. So my question was about if there's an HOA that's not a gated community what those what those HOA fees go to and I'm not quite sure that was clear in the minutes. It's a line 29 says Commissioner Bruegel questioned what the homeowners Association fees are applied to if they're not applied to street maintenance. I'd just like to make that clear those HOA fees for not not gated communities yeah and then there was one more. Oh yeah on page 9 the paragraph about Nottingham Drive so between lines 11 through 14 it says that since Nottingham Drive is planned to be one of the downgraded streets she questioned if there are any plans to calm traffic on that street. PS stated that staff will complete a traffic study and will make any changes necessary based on the results of the study but I understood that conversation and correct me if I'm wrong that the neighborhood would actually have to request the changes to be made that the city wouldn't go in and automatically make those changes but that if the neighborhood requested them then engineering would look into that. Correct. Is that what you all remember? It's initiated by the neighborhood. So we'll add that in there. Okay those are my only changes to the minutes. Thank you. Anybody else have comments or changes questions on the minutes? I just wish we get the minutes you know so we're not backed up again in a sense of getting them you know four weeks six weeks later yeah unless there was corrections with other than that. It's hard to remember everything back then . Right. Okay well I think that covers all the items that we have on our work session and then also the items for our public meeting this evening. Do we want to just go ahead and close the work session I guess at this time? Okay so at 540 we are going to close our work session and then we'll reconvene in council chambers at 630. Thank you. Good evening and welcome to the November 18th City of Dent on Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. Our meeting has been duly posted and we have a quorum present and it is 631. Our first order of business is to stand for the pledge of the US and the Texas flags. Our next item on our agenda is going to be considered approval of the our minutes. The chair would entertain a motion. Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you chair. I had just a couple of corrections that we went over in the work session so with those I move approval of the minutes. Commissioner Dudowitz. I second. Okay any discussion? We have a first and a second and I will call for a vote on the board. We're having some technical difficulties so we'll resort to the old-fashioned we'll do a show of hands. All those in favor raise your right hand aye. All those opposed same sign. So the motion carries six to zero. Our next item is our consent agenda. Chair would entertain a motion on the consent agenda. Commissioner Rossell. I motion to approve the consent agenda. Commissioner Dudowitz. I second. Any discussion? The first and the second we'll call for a vote on the board. Motion passes six to zero. That will move us to our public that will move us to item number four our consider our planning and zoning Commission calendar for 2016. Commissioner Dudowitz. I approve with the with the adjustments that we made in work session moving to November 24th meeting scheduled to the 30th of November and the elimination of December 20 28. Commissioner Beck. Thank you I second the motion the motion. Any discussion? Seeing none we will call for a vote on the board. Technical difficulties are back so we'll go back to a hand vote all those in favor raise your right hand aye. All those opposed same sign none that motion carries six zero. That moves us to our public hearings for this evening. We have first three items A B and C have all been withdrawn by the applicant. We did have one card Mr. Frank Mayhem or may who I'm sorry that those were withdrawn from the applicant so when those are rescheduled please keep an eye on our calendar and we would be happy to well we don't have control over that the applicant has done that I apologize we're not in control that is this Commission but we do invite you back when those are resched uled I'm sorry sir. I'll ask staff to speak to that sir. Thank You Chairperson Strange the item S one one five zero zero one six C has been withdrawn completely at this point we are not aware of when or if it will be rescheduled or come before the Commission at this point however if we do if it is revived so to speak it has been withdrawn but if it is revived then we will send out notification again thank you and should you have any questions of us please give us a call thank you sir thank you again sorry due to the number of well I'm back up we're going to move now to item D and we will hold that as as it is shown on our agenda and at this time the chair is going to open the public hearing and ask for a presentation on item D thank you Chairperson Strange Mike Bill the planning department senior planner will make this presentation this project is fr 1516 for the Calh oun edition the request is a bit of a mouthful but it's essentially a repl at for three separate subdivisions the Mount second edition the Calhoun Calhoun middle school edition the high school edition and a small strip of unpl atted property and in the deed records of Denton County section 212 of the Texas local government code requires a public hearing for any replat that is not done that is not pretty subdivision that is not first vacated it also requires a written notice of the public hearing be provided to property owners in the original subdivision and those have been 200 feet if the area being replatted is restricted or zoned for no more than two units per lot or a duplex within the previous five years this property is zoned for single- family and qualified for residential replat this is the location of the property here it's located near the pecan neighborhood Carroll Boulevard is here this is Calhoun middle school you see the Calhoun middle middle school tennis courts are included in the property and a number of single-family properties as well as I said before this is three separate subdivisions you have the high school edition in red the Calhoun middle school edition in orange Mount second edition in purple and this yellow strip here is a 30-foot unplatted land which I mentioned before and about a macro level there are three reasons why we're here tonight the first is to subdivide part of that 30-foot strip shown here between the budding property owners secondly there's additional 30 feet within the Calhoun middle school addition that the DISD wish to convey to the adjacent properties in the north and south and lastly to establish new legal boundaries for three lots along Anderson and I'll go into a little more detail this is the zoom in of the proposed plat there's a lot going on so kind of walk you through it here very quickly this is that 30-foot strip that I mentioned earlier the reason we're here is the owner of this property to the north came in for a permit to redo the house and with that a driveway that driveway was located in the area in yellow the review of that permit we determined that his plat did not match and further investigation showed that it was actually owned by didn't ISD so we held a meeting with didn't ISD and the adjacent property owners to the south who are also along that strip at that meeting didn't ISD agreed to convey that property to those owners in a way that reflected the current development pattern in the area so as a result these are essentially the new property lines being created here giving them 20 feet the property owner to the north and roughly 10 feet to the property owners to the south also didn't ISD had another strip of land within the Calhoun Middle School addition that they no longer found necessary and they were we asked if these two property owners to the north and south would like to have it they said yes they would so the second part of this we're going to subdivide it roughly here equally between the two and then lastly the third part of this is according to the plat done back in the early 1900s this was actually originally four lots shown by the lines in blue over the decades those lines are kind of reconfigured through meets and bounds the plat was never adjusted accordingly so as part of this we're going to clean up those property lines to where they are now according to their deeds which is roughly here so to go from four lots to three lots there are three houses and there have been three houses for many decades in the end we'll get kind of a product like this where these will be the boundary lines within the plot as it does mean all the technical requirements of our development code staff recommends approval and I'll stand for any questions commissioner Roselle thank you chair can you go back to the location map at the very start of your presentation you've identified an unplatted strip of land that crosses over Amarillo Street to the west is there a reason that that's not being addressed at this time is this going to remain on unplatted we actually held a neighborhood meeting with everybody in that block and that property owner as well requesting if they wanted to to join in on this application they chose not to at this time is there any implications to them for not doing that if their deed doesn 't align with the plot for that homeowner yes they may have the same situation as the property owner within this one did where they couldn't get a driveway permit until they rectify the issue we made that known they still were not comfortable joining in thank you no other questions for staff okay this is a public hearing anyone that would like to speak on this item is welcome to come down at this time please fill out a yellow card if you would like we're waiting on that we did have one card from Bill Coleman in support of this and he did not wish to speak in public hearing anyone else would like to speak on this before we close the public hearing seeing none we will close the public hearing on this item Commissioner back I move we approve the final plan on this Commissioner Dudowitz I second the motion okay any discussion seeing none we'll call for a vote on the board motion carries six zero we're going to make a adjustment to our agenda we're going to be moving item F ahead of item E due to the length of the presentation so we will move now to open the public hearing for item F thank you chairperson strange I will request Julie Wyatt with our planning department to make this presentation good evening Julie Wyatt associate planner with the city of Denton tonight I'm presenting to you a code amendment or proposed code amendment the request is to consider making a recommendation to City Council regarding an amendment to the Denton development code to add assembly halls clubs and lodges to the list of zoning uses in subchapter 5 and also revise the definition for semi public halls clubs and lodges in subch apter 23 the reason that we're discussing this tonight is because over the last year or so staff has been approached by several entities as well as applicants wanting to develop facilities to accommodate private functions in more rural or residential or non-commercial areas the uses that would this would encompass would be private events such as weddings meetings banquets the activities associated with it would include catering alcohol sales for on-site consumption and typically live or recorded music some sort of entertainment the Denton development code does not have a definition or a use that adequately describes this these types of activities for a for-profit entity so we discussed this in a previous work session the Denton development code does have a definition for use that encompasses those activities of catering rental hall banquet facility and that's semi public halls clubs and lodges but they only limited these activities to non for not-for-profit entities so in order to broaden the types of applicants or people who could use this definition and this use staff is recommending that we remove the non-for-profit portion of this definition and also and also redo the term to be assembly halls clubs and lodges as a structure or facility owned or operated for special educational or recreational purposes once again this still encompasses those same activities that were in the previous definition but it just broadens who can use it we're also recommending that this use be treated in the same manner as the existing semi public halls clubs and lodges so for our rural areas it would not be permitted in RD5 but it would be permitted in rural commercial sorry for our residential zoning districts in our one through in our six we're recommending it to stay as an SUP and then in our MU 12 would be a limitation in our MU it would be a permitted use in staffs analysis of this code amendment we felt that the SUP and in retaining that within our residential zoning districts was important because a use that requires an SUP is a use that may be permitted in the zoning district but additional scrutiny would be required in order to make sure that that use does fit in with the existing character of the area as well as the land use pattern so for for the in our one through in our six subchapter six would apply to the use and that would be additional criteria for approval it would go through the public hearing process and there could be conditions placed upon the use such as limiting the scope of the use limiting the hours of operation those types of things to mitigate any nuisances and to make it compatible with the surrounding area in our downtown zoning districts a permitted use our community mixed use districts permitted regional mixed use permitted employment centers and then also industrial centers permitted as a semi public halls clubs and lodges so staff does recommend approval of this code amendment and I'll stand for any questions thank you this is a public hearing anyone who would like to speak on this item please come forward at this time I do not have any cards on this item yet yes a public hearing if anyone would like to speak on this item please come forward at this time just public hearing I'm sorry I don't know the procedure for this okay great I got here just in time you're up come on all right welcome and if you would give us your name and address for the record and then when you 're finished with your comments if you'll fill out a yellow card we would appreciate it you'll have three minutes all right Commission thank you for inviting us to speak on this matter my name is Lucas Hall L-e-c-a-s-h-o-l-l my address is 815 crest oak place that's Denton 76209 and I am here to urge the Commission to a either reject the proposal outright or be rejected on the condition that it is amended in order to preserve the semi public definition and apply and continue to apply the semi public definition as it applies to all neighborhood residential zoning areas one two three four and six I I believe that so here I'm generally opposed to it because the inclusion by eliminating that the language excuse me by eliminating the what I'm calling the non not-for-profit provision we are by nature including for -profit and commercial uses into the definition that's as described in the staff recommendation now that goes against a historical and this is a nationwide historical precedent of having residential zones limited to family a living multifamily single-family use with the exception of nonprofit community type uses like schools neighborhood churches other neighborhood nonprofit surface service and community type uses the introduction of for-profit or business type uses into the definition of assembly halls and then creating this mechanism by which these could be inserted into what are uniformly under the Denton the existing development code uniformly for for family living for quiet peaceful residential living that is antithetical it's it's using I'm against that generally and I think a lot of neighborhood representatives would be there maybe I don't know how many people are here to speak on it but if people hear the idea that we're expanding the possibility of uses to include for-profit or commercial uses which are not by nature bad in fact there are plenty of business owners that are going to be great neighbors but it 's expanding needlessly to address a very fine technical problem and that is it's my understanding simply to incorporate this small niche of assembly type business classes into a new definition so here's my proposal if you really want to address this which is including a new definition for assembly type for-profit businesses maintain the semi public definition with the nonprofit limiting use and make sure that continues to apply to all neighborhood residentials but create the new assembly definition as staff has proposed and allow that to be included on in mixed use commercial and industrial but please leave the neighborhood residential one through six with a big N in all places if you do in fact create that new assembly definition and by the way if there's a business owner or a group of business owners out there that really really want to establish a business thank you for the extended time in an area that's classified as neighborhood residential we already have the tools at our disposal variances or rezoning and I'm gonna cut you off right here we'd let you go for you thank you before you go yes came in late and I think you may have missed some of the items in the presentation and I think there may be some questions and then we may ask staff to come up and clarify an item for you so I'm gonna recognize Commissioner Brickle please sure mr. Hall thank you for coming tonight you walked it was like it was like in the TV shows like I've arrived here so are you aware that those staff is recommending approval in and are one through and our six that there does require an SUP process which does trigger a public hearing are you aware of that and does that seem to satisfy some of your concerns that the neighborhood can come out and speak for or against a proposal like that I am aware and I maintain my position I'm aware that this but and and the I think there there should be a bifurcated assembly type definition one that is semi-public as we have it that exists right now and that applies to neighborhood uses with the SU P provision all the way across as it does right now and then creating a new definition identical to the sets that's assembly clubs lounges identical to the current definition without the nonprofit limitation and then that would also be an SUP but that would only apply but it would be a big end in every right in our zone but then an SUP under every mixed use and commercial and so yes I realize that's a pause a possible rebuttal to what I just said but I believe it should remain a big end all the way across in neighborhood and one more question for you Commissioner Hudson yes mr. so my question is this yes given given a hypothetical situation currently now if a church or a not- for-profit wanted to lease to an individual that door is somewhat open and there is no hearing have you considered that that at least with this provision you would at least it eliminates that to a degree I think there I think there is a more refined way to us to address that problem and that's what I what I just said and if you really needed to I frankly I don't think that the the rare instance of this happening the hypothetical I don't think the possibility of those hypotheticals warrants the broad brush stroke of blanket allowing for- profit applicants to encroach into neighborhood residential zones and I realize this is all conditioned on that special use permit requirement but in that instance I think we could come up with a more refined tool I haven't had time to contemplate that hypothetical but I think there's a more refined tool and a zoning tool at our disposal to address that particular situation and I'd be happy to think about it and respond in more detail if you want me to but sure yeah I don't know all that's contingent on the vote tonight but yes I'd love to because that is it that's I think that I live about a block away from the Legion Hall and they're booked every weekend pretty much and so yeah I think it is more realistic than you think and so I'd love to hear what you have to say sure yes one more question for a Commissioner Roselle thank you mr. all I appreciate you coming speak and I actually raised some of the same concerns you had in a work session several weeks ago namely I was concerned about inviting specific noise issues into residential area and I was I was educated on the fact that there's city ordinances that help prevent that existence from happening apart from the special use permit which we would have the ability to put some constricts on some of the usage and so I align with you and some of the concerns I also is as we look at this there's community centers that pop up and then planned not planned developments but in residences that with the nonprofit tag on that would be inhibited to rent out that space for weekend functions so this would would help those localized type community centers function without having to go through like a rezoning or variance process that that you brought up does that make sense yes and I frankly am I guess I don 't know how the code applies to this instance of that you gentlemen have raised of an existing not-for-profit organization leasing out for a business purpose in my mind you could easily justify it as as it as the code exists and saying that financial leasing out for the financial support of the existing community or nonprofit organization is a satisfactory nonprofit use whereas a completely for-profit use what really matters is the bottom line and I think that has an inherent friction with the established long established and very delightful established norms we have in Denton residential neighborhoods and I really see no harm in creating a bifurcated definition the way I 've envisioned and I realize you all probably discussed this much longer than I 've had a chance to talk to you about it but yeah I I appreciate your comments and welcome taking any other questions to see no other questions thank you for your comments okay thank you so much thank you again this is a public hearing anyone else that would like to speak on this item please come forward at this time seeing none I will close the public hearing on this item Commissioner Bruegel thank you chair Julie where's Julie hey Julie thank you I'm wondering if you could address some of his concerns and maybe make your case for why the SUP process might might address some of his his concerns with that sure absolutely and I'll say that staff was really sensitive to his concerns and it was we went around quite a bit on it and and so it was it was definitely a point of discussion with staff but at the end you know we looked at what the existing the existing use what the activities were associated with it and they really are the same activities it really comes down and who's using it and so I think we're sensitive to the commercial nature and to the nature of those activities they could get quite intensive and we tried to think about worst-case scenarios in our internal meetings but when but when we looked at those and then we looked at you know any use that would come in in a residential district would also have to meet any any lot coverages any building envelope requirements within that zoning district so that would be a limiter to it there would potentially there would be buffering requirements screening requirements and that's just just on the code but then when you look at the additional criteria for approval for the SUP and that there would be public notification as well as a public hearing that we felt like that extra scrutiny and that community input would serve to to make sure that it was compatible with the character of the neighborhood. Yeah and a follow-up to I believe there was we brought up you brought up an example of something currently existing was it the Wildwood or something that can you talk about? Wildwood Inn is a facility that is a bed and breakfast it's actually got a CEO for a bed and breakfast but it also holds weddings as well and that's in a residential area is that right? Yes ma'am. It is on arterial but it but it is in a residential zoning in a residential area. And it seems to fit well with where it is there haven't been many complaints from the residents in that neighborhood? I'm not aware I know that the neighborhoods have had complaints about noise but but I don't know about any specific complaints. Staff was also approached by an applicant who wanted to do a farm slash wedding venue on the west side of town in an NR2 zoning district and when we looked at what they were proposing it really made sense it was a rural type use it was going to have large acreage so it would have provide a lot of buffer between them and the neighbors but it would also have been a for-profit in order you know they had to have the wedding component in order to have the sort of farm component so we tried to look at all you know the the different scales and how the intensities could affect the the character of the areas and there would be some instances where it would not be appropriate and and we would you know we would look at carefully at that and if if conditions couldn't make it appropriate for that area then that would be something staff would have difficulty recommending for approval. Thank you that's helpful. Any other questions for staff? Thank You Julie. Any other discussion on this or someone like to make a motion? Commissioner Beck. Thank you chair I would like to ask Mr. Hall one more question. What is or is there a worst-seen scenario for you? Is it just the idea that it 's a for-profit entity that's coming into a neighborhood a residential area or are there some for-profit entities that you that worry the most that might come out of this? Well A, I generally don't think we need to completely rewrite the code for a very small case-by-case problem which could be established which could be addressed by existing tools namely variants or rezoning. I 'm not sure how wildwood exists it's a lovely place I assume a variance or some some other provision why not other you know require other businesses to go through the same process but I suppose my my worst-case scenario I don't think it would it's it's something along the lines of gradual encroachment over time and I it's I don't feel like I should have to defend this position in an instance where we're elect where we can elect to just maintain the status quo as it applies to residential neighborhoods but then create the new as for-profit assembly hall definition and allow that to apply to mixed- use commercial and industrial. It seems like a very technical problem that we 're addressing the tools for which we already have at our disposal and therefore I'm for that sort of dorky policy reason against the idea of a broad redefinition that would suddenly change and affect all neighborhood zones and yeah the the prospect of gradual encroachment one here one there one there and by the way I mean if you are comfortable with it now and you believe that you would give such as a special use application very high scrutiny and really give it a you know what's to say of the Commission five years or ten years from now or the City Council five years or ten years from now I think it's better just as least as it applies to neighborhood uses to please just continue to restrict the way it is currently and to if you want add create the new assembly for-profit definition and apply it to commercial and industrial uses. I think staff wants to add and clarify a little bit more as well. Thank you Chair person. Just to iterate and to so that we're all on the same page the definition in essence it has been broadened to an extent you're absolutely right but the definition in its the initial definition the definition how it is how it reads in the Denton Development Code is extremely restrictive. We didn't staff when they when we evaluated this land use we read the existing land use which in a way was coined to only accommodate a certain type. That being said and doing our benchmark studies and evaluating what is going on in other communities because the number of queries that staff received on these types of uses of facilities because we have to be able to fit a specific land use within the category and that's why we have the schedule of uses. So there's several scenarios that are at play. One is when you look at our NR1 and NR2 zoning districts most of them are Randstyle or rural in nature and if you recall Miss Wyatt just spoke to that that you know someone wants to do some type of farming activity associated with the banquet hall or a wedding venue it it creates there is a market niche for that. The next question we asked ourselves are we just accommodating a specific user or should we reevaluate and understand what are the impacts of this use within our community because we know as Commissioner Hudspeth said that there are scenarios where you know where it specifically says for non-profit. That being said we went back to our benchmarking and when you look at larger residential zoning districts which have higher density as an example most a lot of them not most of them but quite a few of them have for instance club houses or pools or venues which enables them to utilize that facility if you look at some residential communities who perhaps have a golf course associated with them and that clubhouse associated with it you can use that facility for a venue for example so we use that benchmarking study but we went another step further and that step was let's not permit these uses by right let's establish a specific use permit for these because that enables us to evaluate that specific small use you know as you're calling it at a in comparison with what is surrounding that what is the compatibility of that use that SUP will enable us to determine whether in if it indeed is appropriate and compatible with the existing land uses surrounding it and as a future land use and that SUP would have a site plan tied to it it would have a landscape plan tied to it it would have elevations tied to it because more than likely it would grow out of that existing facility furthermore the specific use permit would address noise it would address traffic issues it would address the occupancy loads and the levels to determine would this actually work can we sustain that use within the community it's being proposed in that's where the SUP comes into play unfortunately a variance request wouldn't because you can't just rezone a tiny piece within the larger area because then it leads to incompatibility so you know and I know your your thought process and your logic as it relates to the definition is correct but we went that extra mile and we evaluated and tried to determine the compatibility of and that's why in the non-residential districts as you've pointed out it's permitted by right as well so when it comes to the residential categories of districts it gives us a keener eye on it we we have an evaluation that has to occur with that land use in the instance of an SUP consideration absolutely which would warrant the public hearing process Commissioner Daddowicz thank you staff and I think what I'd like you to do is go through the SUP approval process because not only does it is it aired here correct it also is brought to the attention of City Council so that scrutiny gets very very finite and we all look at it at two levels so if you wanted to expand upon that you for more clarification thank you Commissioner Daddowicz actually you did you handled it well you addressed it perfectly the specific use permit is a public hearing process that involves property owners within 200 feet are notified of the request the city of Denton actually does an extra notification layer and we also send our notification within 500 foot radius of the request that then is slated for a Planning and Zoning Commission meeting where the public is welcome to attend and voice their concerns if any associated with the request at that point the Planning and Zoning Commission makes a recommendation it can be in favor or it can be against the request that recommendation is then forwarded on to City Council again those note notices are published a newspaper notice goes out establishing that this zoning case is happening the City Council then makes a determination based on that now what does that land use analysis reflect in the report there are several criteria in the Denton Development Code that have to be looked at from traffic compatibility of land use noise lighting glare and illumination landscaping are they any extra mechanisms that need to be attached to this to ensure that it's compatible from an aesthetic standpoint or from a land use compatibility standpoint so there are two levels of scrutiny as Commissioner Dudowitz stated and once a special use permit is granted it is a vested right specific use permits can be unlimited or they can be tied to a certain lifespan well as a Hail Mary maybe including in the definition that the specific for this particular thing if it's a special use permit for these assembly type things in zoning residential neighborhoods attaching a provision that these need to be revisited and reviewed by staff on a regular annual or you know two-year basis or what have you because as you said conditions change maybe it gets a little bit bigger the business gets a little bit bigger than originally conceived maybe it's having a little more impact on the neighborhood than originally expected so if it does get bigger let's assume they want to expand they would have to come back in to revise that specific use permit through the public hearing process again yes and just to reiterate the SUP is specific to that particular request and it stays there and a time frame is set it and review as per the recommendation so it's very specific it can't be broadened anymore can't be used someplace else right it's just that specific get used and the public has a right to let us know what they think each and every time that comes up so can the specific use permit is it is it run with the land or is it unique to the person in other words could someone establish a business in a neighborhood and then sell it to an out-of-town business owner and they could just come in and still have that special use permit right it would depend on the application itself sometimes it runs with the applicant as well as the land itself so they could go both okay it's these technical details that I wish neighborhood residents wouldn't even have to start wouldn't even have to address but I realize that y'all feel confident in the special use permit process so I thank you for your comments thank you we did close the public hearing so we're hoping for discussion or comment or for a motion Commissioner Netherlands if there's no further discussion I move to approve is submitted with emphasis on specific use permit process Commissioner Beck I said get the motion any further discussion seeing none we have a first and a second on the board and I'll call for a vote this motion carries 6-0 we're now going to move back up to item E and I will open the public hearing for item E on the mobility plan should I begin yes sir okay good evening you know I had done a presentation in the last public hearing and I will quickly go over that for the audience's benefit as to what we covered we looked at the why we update a mobility plan we looked at the travel demand model which is a computer model that has been done for the Dunn Street Network that is a master planning model it provides all of the traffic data and it provides what streets are operating under different level of service it also was used to do the projections for the build out conditions which will be a fully built out condition based on the land use plan that we have received and we updated the mobility plan of with the new roads which were already approved master plan communities which is like hills of Dunn coal ranch hunter ranch and then the annex areas that city has annexed there's no road designation there so we added all those into the mobility plan and in the last public hearing we had some comments we have responded to the comments and then in particular I wanted to talk about three of those which is the post work option the Collins Laney Road extensions it is a court order that I had shared with you in the work session and then the Golden Circle Cooper Creek Road extension which is the north part of the city there so I'm going to share with you you have in your packet a map that is a little dated now this one is being updated to meet the comments that came to us after the last public hearing so this is what we will use as the official document and talk off of it and I lost that for you so you can see it a little better oops okay so we're going to talk about the post oak initially when we presented it we had post oak actually going along the Clear Creek nature preserve and we found that that was not the best option because of some restrictions that we have so we came back and presented to you in the work session last week and today of course to look at the option A and the option B option B does run through some existing developed property the option A is in more of a green field area and as that green field area develops the city will have a chance to then acquire the right-of-way in those areas so this is a better option that is a substantial amount of traffic that has to come on post oak road to relieve some of the traffic that's going to go on Mayhill Road this will account for over 25,000 trips on this option going north in this area so my recommendation is to use the option A and as we go later on in the recommendation we will show you that the second item was the Collins Street connection which is right in this area and what we found there was a entry in the Commissioner's Court and a order was taken which actually working with the railroad railroad itself the Collins Road connection here it does not cross the railroad anymore it terminates south and then it again starts on the north side but it does not cross the railroad track city had initiated that because they wanted to have another crossing in different part of the town so they had to then do away with one crossing city chose to do away with this crossing working with the neighborhood in at that time in this area so even if you want to we cannot go and cross Collins Road because we'll have to get permission from the railroad which doesn't come that easy so we did away with that connection and the extension of Lakeview and along here and also we have shown extension of Laney coming as a collector and tying in here with Collins that part has been taken out it does extend up to the post oak road so we have connectivity and a collector straight to serve this area so that is a change it is not part of the recommendation but it is change in the in the overall map the third comment was on the Golden Circle and the Cooper Creek Road as to their existing property owners and as we mentioned that property owners gonna be there anytime you extend a road it will go through somebody's property based on the model that we have put together for the built-out conditions there is more than 6,000 trips per day on Cooper Creek Road and about a thousand trips on the Golden Circle whenever they develop this property maybe 20 years down the road or 30 years down the road there will be a need for this collector road so as part of the overall planning process it is our job to show you that that there's a need for this road not at this time but down the road when the when these properties develop that we are need for this road okay so with that I'm going to move forward to the recommendation part the recommendations the staff has is to for approval of the travel demand model which is the master planning computer model which was used for the updates to the mobility plan with option a for post oak road and the addition of the Hickory Creek arter ial option in the mobility plan and I'll stand for any questions commissioner Brighill thank you chair PS can you last week we talked about extending the adding the Hickory Creek option to the south and it sounded like we could kind of go either way with that option in the end at the last meeting we decided to leave it in just to have that option for tonight's session could you walk me through the arguments for or against the Hickory Creek option in the argument that was there is the connectivity of the west side of the town to the east side of the town in the southern portion of the city so that currently we do not have this option that takes off from country club road in this area right here and then extends this road crossing Hickory Creek and ties into 2181 can be done because there is no development there over time if we do establish this routing then as the property is developed in that area then the city will have a chance to then acquire right away especially if we go with the road impact fees then they can be compensated for the right away as part of the development process so it establishes a routing the stock becomes aware that there will be a road that will be in this area and as the development comes in the DRC engineers they look at the mobility plan and they'll say okay this road is crossing this area so let us see does it affect your property and if it does then they will work on getting that right away exacted as part of the development process okay thank you I had asked a question to a camera if it was last week or the week before about clearly defining bike lane in the in the new in the new road requirements did you ever come up with a definition of what a bike lane is I mean are we just talking about and I know part of this was context-sensitive but I was just hoping for a firmer definition are we talking about a wide outside lane are we talking about Sharos are we talking about a painted stripe or a buffer somehow if you recall you know a few presentations back when I brought the contact sensitive solution information to you we had shared some cross-sections which are of course not part of the transportation criteria manual at this time what we have right now in the criteria manual are right away dedications for a primary arterial hundred and 135 feet for a secondary arterial 110 feet for new roads and for a collector's street 70 feet that much real estate let's call it the area within 135 or 110 or 70 allows for dedicated bike bike lane if that is desired as part of the planning process and during construction so that during construction then if it is deemed that yes there's a need for a bike lane it can be constructed so it can be constructed in the sidewalk area so that sidewalk can be expanded instead of being a five foot sidewalk in our trio it can be a ten foot sidewalk that will accommodate bike traffic or if that is not the desire then there's enough room in the pavement area because the outside lane and the arterial is currently 18 feet so by striping you know a double stripe and that would allow for a actual bike bike lane in that area so so I want to be clear then so this new mobility plan update by default will any future road construction will by default be required to have by some sort of bike accommodation I've seen the sidewalks in your in your mock- ups but we didn't always I didn't again I didn't always see those bike lanes so I just want to be clear any any future road construction will include some sort of bike amenity well you know our city has a bike plan right now so wherever the bike plan is if there's a road constructed then the engineers need to accommodate the bike lane in that right but as I am pardon my inertia but as I said a couple weeks ago the bike plan currently only applies to the current streets that we have the mobility plan is looking at future streets and I just want to make sure that in 20 years we're not stuck with the same problem that we have now or we're trying to retrofit bike amenities when we could have been building for that all along yeah you know that is not currently in the criteria manual you I would suggest that if you would like to make that as part of a recommendation to the council so that it can be you know heard there in the council public hearing also I'll be happy to take it okay so that that is a motion we could make tonight is to of course you can add that to the motion okay thank you thank you and this is a public hearing got a number of cards this evening I'm gonna start with the first card that is not marked whether they are in support or not support where they wish to speak dr. Charles Browning or Browning as you come forward please state your name and address for the record and you'll have three minutes thank you my name is Charles Browning I live at 617 Emory in Denton Texas 76201 I'm in support of adding an amendment or some type of addition to the mobility plan that would require all new streets to be fitted with bike lanes and I would like to see an increase on the speed of the current bike plan we already have I haven't seen a whole lot of new bike lanes or say repairs to bike lanes that need to be made on Hickory the Hickory lane bike lane at this time is referred to many of my friends as a death trap there's often glass I've broken had tires flattened there I commute to UNT every day where I work probably commute probably 10 miles every day on average around didn't to take my daughter to school who also comm utes to Calhoun middle school I commute to get my groceries and I do this by choice it has a lot of benefits old personally and I think the city of Denton would also benefit for improving infrastructure for cyclists the cycl ists put less wear and tear on the road which causes allows you know tax mayors to have some relief from fixing those roads so the current mobility or the mobility plan y'all are considering I think if you make it more accommodating for cyclists more people who would put less impact on our environment promote clean air and a local healthy population would do that by by cycling on trips that are less than a mile or two miles there's not really any reason other than you have a small child or it's raining if you're a healthy fit individual with a bicycle and you feel it's safe I think that we should promote these activities not only for personal health but also for the health of our community and that's all I have to say but I'll be willing to take any questions thank you a little bit can you turn your mic on please sorry hope you got that the next card I have is Clay Thurmond and he does does wish to speak my name is Clay Thurmond my address is 1524 Snyder 76209 and I am a avid cyclist I cycle in the city out in the roads I love Denton because it 's a very livable city and I would urge you to include that amendment that's been suggested to require cycling access on new mobility plans it has many many benefits to us sustainability green is a very powerful argument community is one of the big things that I get out of cycling having reengaged the cycling community I've expanded my own social contacts as I cycle around town I stop I talk to people at their houses their yards and I've engaged with the community so much more we can't do that when we're zipping around in cars pedestrians cyclists will do that I'd like to see the cycling infrastructure improved in this town like they've said hickory is horrible Hinkle is horrible there's many of them and many of them are disjointed not really connecting Dent on is an eminently livable place and from where I live just southeast of the TW golf course I can be almost anywhere in the city inside of 15 minutes I can be out in the country there's very few places this size that you could say that for and I think that's one of the draws for us to bring in younger workers families and that's another thing I want to see is cycling infrastructure improved so that that community can be developed I want to see children be able to ride down the streets I really like it when I go downtown and I see father with his toddler on her trike going down the street and I just like to see us become a much more livable community we can do it thank you thank you thank you sir I have a question commissioner Brickle thank you chair so I generally live kind of near your neighborhood and I can I can barely drive from one end of town in 15 minutes to the other end so I'm just kind of curious as a cyclist how is traffic for you how's the congestion I pick my routes very carefully there are some streets I frequently go shopping I do a lot of grocery shopping I've probably eliminated 50% of my car travel but I go shopping down around the loop around the mall I will cycle to my ophthalmologist over off Bonnie Bray I can get almost everywhere and it's just mainly picking my routes very carefully and that for its safety are you talking my question I was trying to it was a little tongue-in-cheek there like how is how's the congestion for you out there on the roads when you're riding your bike and the rest of us are stuck in cars but it brings me to my next question is how since you do cycle everywhere do you pick your routes carefully because of traffic flows on on streets do you do you typically ride on streets that are more bike friendly than others or do you just take the straightest possible route I write on the arterials I ride on oak I ride on hickory Crescent is one of my favorite streets I ride on dust almost everything except Woodrow and Teasley which I would love to be able to get across 35 that's one of the big barriers we have in trying to promote cycling throughout the city is the southern and northern halves can't really get I agree and there is something in the bike plan to where there's supposed to be some sort of underpass to connect to the south side of the city but it's it's many years away unfortunately but I agree with you on that absolutely yeah but mostly it's picking it for traffic and safety thank you and I'd like to say that the Denton drivers I find to be fairly used to cyclists they see us a lot because the university there are a lot of people that can afford cars that are you see them bicycling every day to work so I think the awareness is there it can always be improved and the more infrastructure you build the more it's going to be used thank you thank you the next card I have is Adam Briggle following Adam will be looks like Kevin Beardshaw hi thank you for having my name is Adam Briggle 1315 Dartmouth Place in Denton I'm here at the request of one of the planning and zoning commissioners to just tell a story every so we live just north of University and every morning I get up with my two children mg my son seven and Lulu who's three and we have bought a trailer for Lulu for my bicycle and she goes to school at UNT because she's that advanced and so she goes with me to UNT every day it's about a mile and a half mg will ride the first way to Newton razor on the pedal of my bicycle so I actually just be pushing the bike with mg on the pedal and Lulu in the back in the trailer in the first five blocks there's no sidewalk at all I'm sure that wasn't any of you who planned those it was back in the 60s and you're gonna do better at that now because that would be nice when you're going down Amherst and there's cars coming right at you and you're trying to shuttle two kids it gets a little bit scary so keep that in mind that there are people who want to commute this way and I've heard from a lot of folks that they sure would like to do that too but it's just sort of prohibitive given the infrastructure they have to deal with on the way to work we drop mg off at Newton razor and then I get on the bike and I ride with Lulu and we could go down Malone which I would do if I was on my own but there's really no indication that bicyclists really belong on Malone there's no charoes or bike lanes or anything it's a little bit quick to take a little one in a trailer so we take gober which is nice it's just a little bit out of the way and then we go up we hit scripture and we come up and then we go there's a nice share on as we come Jago or is that Jago there at that point and then campus is really well done I think for bicycles so I'm just want to share that story that there are folks who I think want to find options for all the reasons all the other people have been saying to bicycle and the decisions you're making about what the infrastructure looks like will determine if they can do that especially if they can do that safely and I feel like we can we can do it but it's a bit dicey especially crossing university which when it's done is going to be I think really scary and might be a point to rethink six lanes going really fast right by the school so there's that last thing I'll mention because I can't resist a little philosophy that so that's the story I want to make sure I got the story out but one of my favorite philosophers is Yvonne Illich and he talks about a concept of a radical monopoly which is not like Ford or Chevy exercising a monopoly but one particular transportation type in this case cars and I think cars too much exercise a radical monopoly on our roads and I know you're all trying to fix it but what that does is essentially put it puts the thumb on the scale for a certain kind of lifestyle which is a car centric lifestyle so this ideal that government is somehow neutral with respect to the way people want to live is not true so you're not neutral to begin with so let's take consideration of a multiple plants and multiple lifestyles so thanks got a question for you Commissioner Rossell Adam I appreciate you being here this evening we speak to the scripture part of the story because that road particularly seems hazardous and I would love your opinion on what the solution might be for scripture in terms of a sidewalk that's desperately needed there or like a share oh it seems like you need to accommodate pedestrians as well and that I 'd love your opinion is since you see that daily I would love to see a sidewalk on scripture that is a tough part we only have one block on it thankfully but if if you're trying to commute down scripture I think well either one of those could work I think a sidewalk would be most effective my sense of that road when I'm on a bike is it kind of narrow and people are as it is are kind of kind of all over the place on that road so that definitely needs to be addressed I think a sidewalk would be would be great on scripture yeah thank you one more question for you Commissioner Hudson how you doing mr. Bruegel hey question so what is the as I understand it so we have two opposite ends so there's no mandatory bike lanes then there's all mandatory bike lanes what do you see in the middle I mean what is that what is a realistic vision for that in your opinion so much of this is cultural and not infrastructural you know it depends whether my commute goes well or not is how well the drivers treat me you know I can have a really grumpy morning when somebody figures that they can just pull right up to me like I'm not really there on the road so I know that's not your question but I think that's another whole dimension of this is to think about how do we accommodate that and so you're right I've seen the spectrum you're talking about I see all of it if you had to pick something in the middle I really like what had been recently redone on that strip of Jago where you have the Sharos and I think it works there really well because the road is wide enough so when I'm biking even with the trailer behind me and even if there's a car parked there it feels safe to be going down the middle of the road and if somebody wants to pass me as long as there's not a car coming the other way they can pass me and there's plenty of room there's not a sense of encroachment there so where I mean where Sharos can work I think again back to your question scripture I'm not sure because it it feels a little more cr amped but if you got a little bit more room my experiences those can work those can work well I think ideally though what's campus is so great when you go down Highland because they built dedicated bike lanes on bike lanes on both sides but I realize that's not an option in every case but that's that's the ideal does it does it help a little bit it does if I may you bet thank you so but really if I were to give direction and I say hey in a perfect world is it is it a percentage of streets how do you map that out right so that I if I can't say 100% of the streets should have bike Sharos or bike lanes or some kind of dedication for bikes if I can't get there what is a good mandate to say in your opinion to say at least these main connector streets should have bike dedicated lanes or I don't know if I'm asking a good question but I know what I'm trying to say I would shoot for a hundred percent I mean keep that as a goal okay then I'm sure you all know better than me how to prioritize in terms of ridership and all that stuff which roads to go first but I think eventually if you want true parity in terms of how people choose to commute and not have the government essentially deciding for you or dictating that one way is preferable over another then you need to eventually get to a hundred percent and what you all are doing I take it as sort of paying for the sins of previous commissioners who didn't think about this stuff and so it's going to take a while but I wouldn't let go of that goal okay thank you yeah thank you to me one other question Commissioner Bruegel thank you chair actually was actually more a question for Commissioner Commissioner Hudson I know we're not quite to the point where we're going to be talking where we're discussing yet but what what what is keeping us from a hundred percent is it some cultural notion that okay you know I mean what is what is keeping us from getting to a hundred percent isn't that our role as as as planning and zoning commissioners and we're not we're not to that point yet we 're having discussion yet but I just wanted to just kind of maybe plant that seed as work as we're listening to to the folks here tonight that what what is keeping us from getting to a hundred percent we'll continue that as we open for discussion let's continue with our public hearing next up again is Kevin Beecher and then after that yes Collins road yes sir and after that Michael Hinnan Kevin Bradshaw 2052 Collins Road okay now I hope I'm not shooting in the dark here I just got called that the city has a plan to run a six-lane highway through my front yard now I don't know for sure I didn't see the earlier speaker but I or else I'd have had my 40 neighbors with their pitchforks and torches up here with me but we've already made our sacrifice to the city and I don't know if there's any truth to this yet but we've already made our sacrifice by giving up our railroad crossing we don't have anywhere for a six-lane highway to go to and I certainly don't need that much more noise we are already putting up with the wider highway when they widen 380 so we have deafening noise already so I would strongly encourage or discourage any additional sacrifice on our part to the city as we aren't in the city and if the city can't afford five hundred dollars to fix the Min the Copper Creek Bridge how are they going to afford the fight they'd have with putting in a new highway I what I also heard was that this was to go through the government core land and I don't believe they'd think much of that even though the city does have control over it and what effect would this have on your new sewer plant that you plan to build out on the Hanna Ranch so that's I'll try to catch up on the information but I didn't want to miss this opportunity well thank you for your comments and I think you excuse me I think we have a question okay for you as well and before I recognize the Commissioner the gentleman sitting right there mr. Rorah can answer those questions right that yes sir I think your questions and concerns have been addressed as far as Collins road but I will recognize Commissioner Roselle for his question I thank you I probably just withdrawal this I was just going to suggest for the ed ification of the mapping to speak with staff to figure out exactly where the implications would be for your property so I agree with the chair okay and our next speaker will be Michael Hinnan followed by Katie Trice Michael Hinnan 724 Thomas Street in Denton I'm speaking in favor of the mobility plan but I want to echo some of the sentiments you've already heard about any kind of future plans that come before you that always should contain considerations for a bicycle and for pedestrian travel our cities are much more civilized and much more livable when they are on the scale of people who can walk around in our cities there's a whole movement dealing with making cities are much more pleasant places to be even when we're out walking from one place to another or bicycling from one place to another the speed of vehicle traffic in our cities should not be the main consideration and I urge you when you're looking at all proposals for highways in the future that they must as one of the previous speakers said they must contain accommodations not just possibilities but actual concrete or physical bicycle paths or and for pedestrians in sidewalks further when you have private parties coming before you seeking to alter or to develop property within the city that you always look at the accommodations that are being made for bicycle and pedestrian use around those properties including bicycle racks you know there's a lot of places in town where you end up looking for the nearest tree or the nearest sign post so whenever you have a business or some kind of a development that's proposed to you I urge you to keep in mind always how it's going to affect pedestrian and bicycle users I live over by McKenna Park on the west side of town and I try to ride my bike as often as I can to go to the core parts of the city and it's a two-fer you get where you're going and you get some exercise and at the same time I would urge you to look at the retrofitting of our streets for safe travel by pedestrians though scripture Street is one of the probably one of the highest categories I can think of because I see a lot of people walking along scripture between possibly Jago and down where body Bray runs and they're always walking in the street with the traffic and that's unacceptable thank you thank you thank you our next speaker will be Katie thrice followed by Todd Ellis hi I'm Katie tries 1401 Egan Denton Texas I I had the pleasure of serving with Commissioner Brighill on the bicycle plan task force that helped to create the bike plan and a lot of work went into those meetings and I was very proud to be able to serve with that team to represent the citizens and also the currency a community bike shop so much work has been put into that plan and we should certainly not consider taking away accommodation for bicyclists if anything we should be adding more more infrastructure for bicyclists to protect our most vulnerable users and to to omit paths that are in that plan would certainly be a diss ervice to the staff citizens volunteers and others that have contributed to date to the plan when you look at more progressive cities that are making biking a real priority you're seeing a lot of divided lanes so that you know when you think about our most vulnerable users you're thinking about the children that are biking to school and having some kind of divided lane that protects them is one of the best ways that they can feel safe as well as the older riders because we want to feel safe and we want to feel welcome and we want to feel as cyclists like we belong on the roads you know and we were in the bicycle plan task force we were restricted in some ways because of the road width and the parking requirements and so I absolutely want to encourage you to in the mobility plan with new developments where the roads haven't been created yet and the sidewalks haven't been created to really require the highest possible amenity for cyclists and that isn't definitely not a share-o and it is not a wide outside lane and it is not a side path only it is a divided bicycle lane yeah so in summary we want to feel safe as cyclists we want to feel welcome and we want to feel like we belong yeah and thank you so much thank you I don't see any questions did you have a question I just mostly had a comment Katie Commissioner Brickle thank you chair Katie I just I also had the great pleasure of serving on the bike plan task force with you it was like five or six years ago and I just wanted to for the record to thank Ms. Trice for her amazing work on that task force I remember that for a while staff was really pushing for that bike lane on Mulberry to get to campus and you're like no okay Greece the way to go and you really banged that drum and they finally listened so so that's on you so congratulations and thank you for your hard work thank you Commissioner Brickle. Todd Ellis the next card that I have be followed by Carl Gossett. Hi commissioners thanks for the chance to speak tonight my name is Todd Ellis I live at 3321 Rockhill Road in Aubrey where I only lived for two months I lived in Denton before that and I have been a bike commuter since 1983 starting in Denton and then for many years in San Antonio New Orleans Guam and Salt Lake City and all of those I've experienced the various infrastructure for biking or absence of infrastructure for biking and like every biker here one of the first things you figure out is where the death traps are so you don't ride there and so a lot of biking is about avoiding that but I'm definitely in support of obviously including accommodations in all future bike plans. It's hard to put 32 years of experience cycling in different cities into three minutes it's kind of like I could grab any number of things from my brain what I should that's convincing I really have no idea except other than what has been mentioned biking is doesn't seem like any other infrastructure decision because biking is a paradigm shift and it's a paradigm shift towards many things you know self-re liance sustainability local economy taking charge of your own health mental health I could go on and on about the benefits of cycling but it's not don't get it just as another infrastructure project but a paradigm shift that is the fastest growing mode of transportation in cities in the US. We know through studies done by the city of Oregon or city of Portland Oregon that a higher number of bicycles keeps more money circulating locally so for the money oriented among us that should be you know a carrot out there but it's a quality of life issue and I guess my struggle with city governments and governments in general is especially in the US is it seems to all be about you know what Zack de la Roca over age against machine said is all the world jails and churches so he has a song about planning and zoning actually you know and nothing's anything wrong with the jail or church per se but it's not the letter of the law but this the letter of what he's saying the spirit of what he's saying is that you know we want to create a community that's not just you know oppressive you know another another 7-eleven or another box store but a community of life and access that's 30 years of experience in three minutes do you have a question for you Commissioner Roselle thank you chair I you made a leading statement that I just want to follow up on you said the first thing bicycles do when they come to town is find out where the death traps are can you tell me where the death traps are and didn't I would personally like oh yeah oh yeah there's and I'm sure a lot of people do and I can tell the personal ones I have to avoid right now I'd like to tell the personal one I have to avoid right now and which is why I'm excited about the the postdoc option because my my commute right now goes from a middle school close to post oak and in Corinth and it goes around into town and out for 28 to Aubrey about 20 mile right and it could be about 12 miles but I can't do Mayhill Road Mayhill Road isn't is a no way Mayhill Road's no way and then I can 't do 228 obviously because that's you know again I've seen bicyclists doing you know loop 228 at 6 a.m. without lights and I I just I've a couple times I've stopped and tried to go not you really you don't want to ride this you know he's so deadly you know - so 288 is Mayhill Road definitely is the university is like like clay said Woodrow is Woodrow's challenging I actually do Woodrow because but it's challenging mostly because of the how fast the cars are going there it is it is two lanes on a sidewalk but they're going really fast right there those are the main scripture is there's plenty right now the main one for me is Mayhill and if you guys made that post oak with bike facilities that I could ride to I would memorize all of your names and bow to the four directions every day before I did that bike ride because I would just be unbelievable that'd be unbelievable it's a deal yeah I will okay we'll Commissioner Corito to memorialize you thank you thank you thank you next speaker will be Carl G ossett followed by Doug Campbell thank you my name is Carl Gossett I live at 602 Woodland Street in Denton Texas and I don't really have a prepared statement and I'm not ready to address any of the specifics in the changes in the mobility plan but I'm here mostly to make a general comment about the need of the city to make sure to include infrastructure in any changes to the mobility plan regardless of what the bike plan says I moved here about three and a half years ago from Los Angeles California and when I lived in LA I commuted 12 miles every day on my bike and when I moved to Denton my thought was this is great you know I did some research I looked at it online and we we had a preliminary trip to find housing and I thought this is great this is a small town it's lovely the weather is great for the most part and I could see a lot of people riding bikes and I thought this is perfect my experience was that in general I find riding in Denton scarier than riding in downtown Los Angeles and for any of you who know LA I went from mid-city to South Central every day and it was a pleasure and just going down University or McKinney from my house is it's it 's a crap shoot so I would just make sure that people understand that I think there's a cultural shift that needs to happen I sensed that for a lot of people for whatever reason cyclists are still seen as some sort of marginal anti-establishment group of people who just make that decision that they're gonna ride their bike for whatever reason I'd like to propose that the view be expanded to consider that everyone should be riding bikes and there are actually quite a few people who do age doesn't matter gender doesn't matter and hopefully you know class doesn't matter either but it's important that we look at cyclists not just a small marginal group that needs to be accommodated so the consequence of that is that the tyranny of the majority should not you know has no play here so I don't think anyone should come out and say we have X number of cars that go through this street on a daily basis and only 12 cyclists therefore you know the conclusion is obvious I think we need to move away from that model more towards well if we build it there will come and the reality I'll leave you with this the cycling community is growing so the number of riders is not going to go down it's going to go up and someone's going to get hurt somebody some people have already gotten hurt but someone's got a most likely you know at some point get into a catastrophic situation and become a fatality so I would encourage the city to not be reactive to this scenario which is bound to happen if things are the way they are now and be more proactive and include bike infrastructure in any point any changes to any mobility plan that the city is considering thank you. I have a question for you Commissioner Bruegel. Thank You Chair. Carl thanks for being here tonight. What you said about about getting injured and tying into what the last speaker said about that too I'm just kind of curious from all y'all here by a show of hands have any of you ever been hit by a car while riding your bike and I know Adam has to you to raise his hand and those of you that have raised your hands do you feel if if there would have been a bike accommodation for you at that place where you were hit would that have kept you safer if with that maybe prevented so just about as many hands okay I'm just curious thank you yeah I'll just if I may I've had guns pulled on me in LA while on my bike I've had milkshakes thrown at me out of cars I've had people come at me with baseball bats that's nothing compared to riding on McKinney believe me so I'm I you know I have a car I drive to you it's not like I just have a bike and I look at drivers in some some sort of different prism I don't so I think the drivers here in Denton actually quite friendly but the infrastructure is just horrible and again I don't want to be a doomsday kind of guy but someone is going to get seriously hurt and you know please do something now and be ahead of the curb rather than reactive to whatever is going to happen next one more question for you Commissioner Roswell thank you chair I'm not sure if this is a question more than an observation and I know the population here speaking for bike mobility is price self-selected in a lot of ways in terms of following the rules just today I had an individual on a bike run a stop sign while saying left-hand turn I nearly hit him but there's no adherence to the law and so I wonder if there's a way that is as we look to develop bike mobility if education to be part of that or structure because I don't want a few bad apples to turn the whole bunch but my wife got hit by cyclists that ran a stop sign and so I definitely think safety is a priority but I also want to note that it goes both ways and and I would love for those bad apples so to speak not to ruin the testimonies here because it's certainly in my opinion robs me the wrong way when that happens because I would like the law to go both ways for drivers as cyclists as we talk about transportation parity if I may respond not directly maybe but I completely agree with you I'm a big proponent of having cyclists that we hold each other accountable and that includes following you know the rules of the road and so on my personal experience is the only way that changes in any substantial way is by having more cyclists on the road if you if you build a model where you by definition restrict the number of cycl ists you are going to have these so-called bad apples on the road all the time if you go to a city like Amsterdam and I'm not trying to compare apples to oranges but you have hundreds of cyclists everywhere people yell at each other if somebody makes a mistake another rider will call you on it and I'd like to get to a point where we are you know where we have that sort of situation here but my experience again is it's only improved through the increase of riders hip on roads sure it's good point thank you for your comments our next speaker is Doug Campbell and be followed by Naomi wood thank you Commission for listening to my comments and thank you for the bike plan that we do have the bike and pedestrian component of the mobility plan I appreciate the Sharos that have been added in the last year so but Sharos are only give us your name and address thank you sorry Doug Campbell one two two three Bell me drive seven six two zero one thank you thank you so thank you for the Sharos that have been implemented through the mobility plan they are only a beginning the protective bike lane is is the final solution I believe as far as scoff laws and education I want to address that quickly that studies have shown that cyclists and drivers break the laws that the exact same rate actually but I'm a proponent of education I just I'm a now American League leave American bicycle is certified instructor so I plan to offer education classes in Denton so to encourage cyclists to obey laws which we should do we have the same rights on the roads but we also have the same responsibilities so I want to hone in on that I am a home owner and I'm also a car owner but my primary means of transportation is my bicycle I ride to work every day I shop my bike every day I drive my car maybe once a week on average two to five miles I fill my car up which is a Honda Civic once every two months so it's by choice that I ride a bike do want to say that nationwide roads are paid for 48% by road users those are all road users not just car drivers 42% by non road users and 10% by bonds so cyclists do have a right to the road and we do pay for the roads as well in case there was any kind of idea that we don't again I shop by bike every to every dollar that I spend on my bicycle is spent in the city of Denton anytime I get in my car I'm leaving the city limits I have no reason to drive my car within the city limits so I don't but if I'm getting in my car I'm spending money outside the city limits I will say this that every study has shown that more dollars are spent by cyclists per trip to businesses to local businesses also Denton is number two in the percentage of bike commuters in the state of Texas for the cities of 100,000 to 200,000 people and actually it's number three statewide we have 1.1 percent commuters in Denton Austin has 1.3 percent number one city in the state of Texas is College Station at 3.7 percent that's nothing to laugh at 1 .1 percent it's significant most people say if they build it they will come Denton is unique in that they're already here we're already riding we just ask that you build more and more will come Detroit added 150 miles of bike lanes since 2006 they increase the riders ridership by 400 percent add more lanes you add more riders thank you one question for you Commissioner Dunowitz yes I'm just curious with your experience you're a instructor also I'm sorry you're an instructor you said I certified to teach bicycle education classes thank you I've never taught one though I just got certified Sunday okay okay in my long life I've lived in a city which required licenses for bicycle owners even which city was that it was in Beloit Wisconsin okay now having said that part of that licensing came in education process similar to drivers license would you be a proponent of that in our city I would not be a proponent of licensing I would I would be shocked if you're if the city that you just named still requires licensing every city that is brought that up in the last I will say 20 to 30 years has shot it down under trying to figure out how to implement something like that if your city's the city that you just named still does that I would be shocked interesting but it does bring us to a place where we could assure proper education so that people are like the state of Texas I was just thinking of both sides of this I mean they were proponents on both yes yes so we need education how do we do that and make sure that people get it correctly also the licensing process will also help identify stolen bicycles and other issues and a way to track people who were the bad actors in the city so it's something else to think about down the road don't know if it plays well but it's just a thought thank you I'd like to address that if I may sure some of your comments there are nationwide online bike registration programs already I could name you three now if you'd like and which the UNT police and the city of Denton police encourages all cyclists to register their bikes on these online databases that's the first question they're going to ask is what is your serial number and did you register your bike as far as bike education the state of Texas once required bike education but they stopped doing that in the early 80s unfortunately stopped that I wish they would continue that cities like Washington DC require bike education in their elementary schools so hopefully that be something perhaps the didn't ISD might consider I believe that drivers and cyclists need bike education on what are what what are the rules of the road I think it's important thank you for your comments thank you Naomi would so our next speaker followed by Patrick O'Con nor okay we'll move her to the end in case she comes back Patrick O'Connor followed by Guy Klossner hello I'm Patrick O'Connor I live at 405 Westway Street here in Denton at 76201 let's see I moved into Denton I made the choice to move to Denton in 2014 July specifically for your bike friendliness city I'm from West Fort Worth while Fort Worth has a wonderful bike plan they have lots of infrastructure it's really only built around downtown I work in Dallas have for 15 years same job I got tired of spending five hours a day in a commute to the office I also really enjoyed the idea that maybe I could cut that down to two and then turn around and spend my cash right here I own a car it's not a new car it's an old car I don't need anything more than that I rent cars locally to drive out of the state bike infrastructure going forward on all plans for roads should be in place just the fact that you have two colleges what the kids riding around or young adults and then you have people like me and the guys are showing up here there are people who are not here tonight you don't even know this is happening I agree that it's frustrating to ride along a cyclist and blow a stop sign it frustrates me I call them out when I can what we need to do is enforce the laws we have write more tickets to your cyclist I'll pay a ticket if I get it just like those guys with the license in their cars it is a lifestyle in a way I see old ladies who smile at me who I wouldn't see otherwise if I was in my car I don't have any answer to specifics this road that road I ride wherever it's the most convenient for me and the safest I'm sure there's plenty of people you could take a poll on and get all that information but I do suggest to continue to build roads with the idea that cyclists and pedestrians are on these roads and their safety is at hand I loved it and I love the idea that I can ride everywhere I can't say that enough all year long whether cold a little bit of snow ice or not I'm on there let's make it safe for everybody thank you thank you for your comments in the next speaker be guy Klosner followed by Annalisa Var gas guy Klosner live at 4124 Celine Drive Denton 76209 and let 's see where to start we'll just start with the most recent I work on the south side of Denton Airport Road also a death trap and there's a very short what do you call it place where people walk sidewalk very short sidewalk that doesn't actually go down to the Peterbilt the Tetra Pak the fast and all the target distribution center the all day distribution center which is further down there and I do see a lot of people who presumably work down there who are walking some people who are cycling and that's that's pretty brave to cycle there I do it as much as I can but of course there are so many trailers that go down there a lot and the shoulder is maybe this wide and because it hasn't been up kept as much as one would like there's overgrowth but you know ruins the shoulder in some places and so yeah that's I would like to see be at least you know widens make a wider shoulder and the other thing I really wanted to point out was that in Houston they have on at least all of the 30 mile an hour z oned roads that I've seen when I was in Houston for a short time they had when it when it's like a two-lane or more the right lane is like bicycle may use full lane which I don't see any downside to that like it would let drivers know that you know bicycles belong on the road there's another lane you can change lanes very easily and just you know pass the bike and be on your way and not force cyclists who are going you know up up and down Elm or locust or hickory and oak to use the I think they call it an urban shoulder or on hickory and oak there are bike lanes so yeah just a bicycle may use full lane on on two lane 30 mile an hour zoned roads with with like you know two lanes that would be great and you know some well wider shoulders where possible would be excellent as well what else oh yeah Hinkle Hinkle is awful like you need a mountain bike to go on Hinkle and that just seems like like it was a bike lane on both sides and it's just like been able to fall into just repair I'd like to see that change thanks my name is Anna Lisa Vargas I live at 4124 Saline Drive Denton Texas 76 209 I've been commuting by bicycle in Denton since around 2009 when I started going to UNT currently I ride about 50 miles a week from the very north side of Denton just south of 28 usually to the center of Denton or to kind of the south side just before you hit 35 I've toured and cycled in multiple other cities and other countries with varying amounts of infrastructure and I echo the sentiments that pretty much everyone else here has stated to you guys one model that I think would be of use is I toured in Scotland for two weeks in May this year and in the last couple years they have implemented the sustainable transit plan or they call it Sustrans and part of that was implementing bike paths and routes in all the cities big and small in Scotland and linking those cities together and much like here they had a lot of old existing infrastructure and part of that plan was to figure out how to make bicycle routes within that existing infrastructure now there was new construction on roads implementing bike lanes and things like that but one of the major things that I noticed there would they had numbered routes that had signposts throughout the city and between cities that's you know were numbered so you were on route number five and it would kind of guide you along routes that were alternative to the major routes of transport by cars so these would be kind of roundabout ways to get throughout towns using lesser known roads and with this they didn't have to implement like set build separate bike lanes or you know things that cost a lot of money and take a lot of time to implement it was simply just rerouting people through safer safer routes and I think something like that might be of use in Denton along with other proposed changes so if you think about major places in Denton that people need to get to the universities razor ranch places on 288 schools if we implemented some sort of different route system that helped guide people who are not brave enough to ride in the current map then that might help encourage people to take up cycling and meet other cyclists in a common in a common route so I think that should be something that y'all should consider and look at more closely as the Cest rans model that was implemented in Scotland thanks thank you I don't see any questions appreciate your comments I'm going to circle back around to Naomi would you don't know if she's come back or not no I'll just read her comments into the record then she did wish to speak she marked her card is in opposition I want more protected barrier lanes that make it easier for me and my child to make it to school safely every day my next card is from Brett Gabriel wishing to speak again this is going to public hearing if you'd like to speak please fill out a yellow card I have one more that does not wish to speak so this will be our last person that wishes to speak that's filled out a yellow card so if you would like to speak on this item please fill out a yellow card and bring that up front thank you sir hi there I'm Brett Gabriel I live at 1023 South Welch Street here in Denton Texas zip code 76 201 I came to Denton to attend UNT about five years ago now love the city it's I came from Houston and I considered a bit of a step up but when I first came here I wasn't I didn't ride bikes at all it wasn't something I did but as I settled into my life here and where I was living at the time it and you know needing to get to school I had I would have to drive somewhere and I didn't want to pay for parking so I'd park somewhere off campus and take the bus in and it it took a lot of time getting the class I had to accommodate a lot for that and I decided to give cycling a try I saw people on bikes you know just going around town going around campus and I started doing that and I actually found that I was able to get from my apartment at the time to class or to work which was chicken express right there on Eagle I was able to get to work in less time and I found a doing so riding to work or class instead of just driving it improves my health and I feel like that's a story that'll be very common for that you'll hear from other cyclists if you ever you know get their take on it so for me cycling was very important and I would like to see it grow in the city where I started riding just kind of add to that earlier today while I was riding home I this was on Welch Street and approaching Eagle I was almost hit by a car wasn't actually hit nothing happened I was able to get their attention in time but they almost turned out of a parking lot and to me as I was riding down the road in the right lane so they pretty much across the entire road to almost hit me I feel that there is a lack of education which was brought up earlier and I feel when you want to if you want to teach people how to you know and to act appropriately around cyclists or how cyclists should behave on the road I think it'd be very important to work with the universities on that on that kind of thing they're bringing on a lot of new students such as myself and when I first started I didn't really know what I was doing I was pulled over a few times for not having lights given the warning since I was new but I feel like that's that's the right thing to do and I have I have run a stop I have run stop signs in the past I'm guilty of that and I've been ticketed for that and it was the right thing I wasn't being safe and I've learned my lessons since then and I try to follow as many of the traffic laws as I can while still keeping my safety in mind thank you thank you I don't have any questions from anybody thank you sir appreciate your comments the last card I have this evening is from Brandon Babbitt 2500 West Hickory apartment 24 in support supports addition of bike lane mandates and future road construction in the mobility plan as an active cyclist who lives on biking that's the last card I have so far this is a public hearing anyone else that would like to speak please come forward and then you can fill out a yellow card after your comments please come to the microphone if you will give us your name and address and when you're finished you can fill out a yellow card over here thank you my name is my name is my name is Francis Chen I'm at 709 Chateau Court 76209 a lot of speakers have spoken very eloquently and very in with a lot of passion as far as how they feel about the infrastructure as well as as a typical end user of so many services it's I use what I see I started out as a person with no car and only a bicycle now I drive a station wagon and I and I and I cycle for for pleasure the one thing that I haven't heard as concretely that I'd like to put on the table is is I've lived in San Marcos and in Austin which is largely a bicycle friendly communities both of them having said that the the philosophical take there is is your illegal user of the road so you obey the rules and you get the right to the road what I applaud about the city of Denton and I hope Denton doesn't sit sit on his laurels and continues to grow in this is that it actually advocates and looks out for the cyclists and that's what I've been seeing in the last few years and that's the comment that I wanted to make I have one question for you not a question Commissioner Detowitz not it's not a question I can hold my comments till after public oh sir for your comments in this public hearing anybody who would like to speak please come down state your name and address and then after your comments if you'll fill out a yellow card appreciate it where's brand new prey I live at a 1002 North Bonnie Bray Street in Texas I'm an owner of a bicycle shop called Sprockets Bicycle Shop we started five years ago I moved here about seven eight years ago for school and I mean we started at a little hole in the wall spot we're paying 900 bucks didn't have AC or anything I think we grossed probably 15,000 that year now we're about ten times that I have these stories are countless of people who have come Denton from a you know suburban wasteland and and discovered a new lease on life or a new a new way of getting around new way of just you know exploring their their surroundings and I think would be a real shame to to not kind of see and take the progressive stance as to see a society you know least locally that we can kind of see that would see kind of passive petroleum kind of base economy and I think that you know the success of my business and everything that the city of Denton has given for me just means that I want to you know be able to support that and and I think that owning a bike shop and you know supporting the the local community is the best way I could do that thank you thank you against public hearing anyone who'd like to speak please come down at this time seeing no one else I'm going to close the public hearing and I will open the floor for discussion or emotion commissioner Dudowitz thank you chair just some comments to the biking community and to the general public but first I was a biker bicycles so my daughter decided my bike was better than hers and I haven't seen my bicycle in three years now I plan to get it back number a couple of things that that we as a commission over the years and I'm sure it's been longer for some of the commissioners up here than myself we've been wrestling with this day-to-day frustration streets and congestion and one of the things that was eye-opening to me early on to come to find that most of our major streets and thoroughfares in Denton are owned by county or the state so those death traps out there that you talk about also affect us car owners to yeah McKinney Teasley University Drive state- owned and maintained and what they want to do with those is their rights and we've had frustrations with that as we looked at many times of road conditions but I must say that when we get an opportunity this commission has asked for bicycle racks thanks to miss Briegel and every development that we see having said that we're still measuring in on this issue because this is a big in all of our discussions if we in fact this mobility plan has been in front of us under how many months months and so we've addressed and readdressed and addressed it again and again I'm not sure where we are exactly but let you know that from to the public we hear you and taking a lot of that into consideration the road conditions for instance I mean I know what you have to go through because we have to drive over them also and have to walk on them and they're not great I can't imagine what they're like for bicycles it's something that we we bring up as much as we can so we're with you in that respect and any comments you bring to us we take seriously so thank you for for participating and giving us your comments Commissioner Rose lle thank you chair I first just wanted to say thank you for everyone to show up and comments it was especially helpful to me to hear the context in which you each encounter the pedestrian and bicyclist traffic to that end I want to throw out maybe to Commissioner Briegel or to someone else in the Commission two weeks ago and this came to the Commission there was no one in attendance for bicycle advocacy and it seemed as though there's some statements in the work session last week that spawned some involvement this week which I think is great but I wonder if there's a way that we can be more directly out there for y'all so that that we doesn't come to a postponement then a Facebook group to get this level of support I would have loved to seen two weeks ago and if this comes up again in the future you all be aware and someone mentioned that that you had friends that weren't aware of what was going on and I just I would suggest if there's a way that we can get to the bike community better because again this was helpful for me to hear and I'm thankful that y'all came and provided that context to me personally and so I just wanted to see if there's a disconnect that can be remedied in terms of getting y'all more vocal more often in these discussions and the second thing I wanted to talk about real briefly is there's there's counter talk earlier about a hundred percent feasibility and whether that's pie in the sky or a legitimate goal and to be honest I don't know it seems a little idealistic but nevertheless maybe something we strive for but that's it to that end miss Var gas brought up a great point of bike routes being a potential solution and I don't know about the bike plan and maybe someone who's on that committee could speak to if there was the idea of carving out popular routes as a priority in terms of the mobility plan to see if we can see the high traffic and target those and to Mr. Dudowitz point the ones that we can control if there's ways that we can intervene and prioritize based on maybe some ideal routes through the city I'm asking more questions and I'm providing solutions for I understand but I just wanted to put those two points out there I'd like to address your first point I think the reason why a lot of people didn't know is because this was not noticed for the bicycle and pedestrian component of the mobility plan this was only noticed for the addition of the roadways so I think that we would be out of line to tie a condition for the bicycle component to this particular item that we have on the agenda now if you want to see that on the project matrix to have it come up for discussion on amendment of the bicycle component then we can do that at a later time but for the item that we have on today it's only as to the updated road provisions that we have in the packet unfortunately I see a lot of people came out today and it's truly appreciated but might be used a little bit later when we can take up that issue but right now I don't think that we can take up that issue not only that but it would also require an amendment to the DDC what you're proposing Commissioner Brigham thank you chair so that segues into what my question was going to be because what I'm hearing from the public is that they don't have many or any major concerns with the where the roads are going in fact the the concerns that were brought up a few weeks ago by some citizens about how the proximity of post oak to Clear Creek has that's been remed ied that's been moved further west and there's some support for that that route as well for post oak but what I'm hearing from the public is that that they they do want going back to my questions with PS about adding requiring bike lanes to be or bike accommodations to be added to the design criteria manual can that be an amendment to our our mobility plan no it has to those actually require a certain process within our code and there is a specific process for amending criteria manual that can be done and then also the bicycle component can come in front of you for the mobility plane we just have to notice it properly that would be another public hearing that would be another that point how long would that take for something like that to come to us like if we're approving the mobility plan tonight I just I don't want us to get behind again so how long would it take to bring something like that maybe that's a question yeah maybe we can bring that up when we do our future agenda tonight and we can add that as an item to the matrix and then we can get with staff on a time frame to do that suggestion okay well I want you to know this is all this was all heard and you know we have our bicycle and pedestrian coordinators sitting in here this evening we have a council person sitting in here this evening and and when we get to the end of tonight's meeting when we can request items for a future consideration you can be assured that I will ask for this to be to be considered and if you'd like to come again that's great if not I want you to know I heard you and I will remember each and every one of your faces and the things that you said to answer your question earlier though Commissioner Rozelle about bike paths I don't recall when I served on the bike plan task force there being a discussion about bike paths through the city we note well not we have we have one just one remember the old railroad Commissioner Dudowitz oh yes thank you oh my gosh we're here to Lake Dallas I mean yeah I think is what the concept is there is a dedicated bike path yeah goes rural but you are allowed to cross off and go into you know is it a city and stuff like yeah the focus really was on how to retrofit where we have what retrofit bike accommodations on the roads that we have but you're right the rail trail is absolutely a fantastic one it goes right through the heart of Denton so that's all I have to say thank you Commissioner Beck yes thank you chair I just want to join all my fellow commissioners and thanking everyone y'all for coming out tonight this is an enthusiastic to see I'm a biker I'm not a real professional you know get on the road type stuff but I like to bike around my little town or and I enjoy it and I've always been like that so I am a little disappointed to hear that we can we can't put an amendment to this thing tonight but I will thoroughly be with Commissioner Briegel to get something on the agenda as soon as we can and back it completely so again thank you so much for coming out tonight Commissioner Dudowitz follow-up on Ms. Briegel's comment and Larry's about where we put this in the process how do I say this maybe it 's more political than anything else but right now when our streets are designed and to be built there's no oversight the engineering department can build what they want when they want it and there's no oversight I am proposing I have just had discussions but it's not yet formalized it that a commission such as this or a public commission review the plan for logic and for types of things that say wait a minute where is the bicycle path why are we cutting out a entrance to a shopping center why are we blocking this and why is that media in there because I can't have access into this or that and right now there's currently no oversight for that process now they do take into consideration comments made in open house discussions or in whatever discussions neighborhood discussions to have but when they start to break ground there's no oversight so I think maybe this is a process by which we can you know think and put in place that we have people that ask where are the bicycle paths where are the bicycle routes in this particular design and sometimes it may or may not be accommodated but at least we have some oversight some view some input to that process so I'm looking forward to putting that in place within the next year and look for some port from various council people as well as commissioners thank you commissioner Hussbuss thank you so again I want to echo everyone else's sentiments that the the activity is is much appreciated the insight very much appreciated I don't know that I have three bikes in my garage and that's where I stay so it's it really helps me because I'm living vicariously through you and so the information is as well received and I am a I appreciate the difference it makes because I get a little closer to trail there and I've seen the sense of community the people passing through and I enjoy it very much to that end I really would and I don't know who kind of facilitates this city see why and then also I solicit from anyone that spoke tonight to email me the the pads through through didn 't that function well because I think I'm more of a practical application my mind just thinks that way and I think scripture is very busy because there's no red lights so when I lived on Bonnie Bray and I needed to get from here to there quickly you go down scripture because you have one stops on there by mr. chopsticks and then you're good all the way to pass frosty you know so those are things that we need to I think mr. Briggle touched on it's a cultural thing so it's it's kind of traffic patterns and flows and and how do we incorporate that into a good plan that allows bike riders to get to where they're going safely so I would solicit any information via email on on pathing you know if you're riding to school this street works well because absent being able to get 100% approval I would like to be able to speak intelligently about this road is one that is absolutely key and even when you're looking at the mobility plan it focuses on new roads that are on neighborhoods that aren't here yet so I want to look at actual roads that are ongoing that we can affect sooner than later and have a tangible application to change those traffic patterns and with that I just need information because I can't the time it'll take me to gather it myself and it's just not realistic so someone that's doing it every day proves of great value for me to understand which roads we need to focus on and hone in on so and I think and yeah and I so I think that's everything that jumped out of me that I so I don't know who helps with that but I'd love to see it thank you Commissioner Bruegel thank you chair so I think if we 're wrapping up the discussion I'm ready to make a motion on this but before I do I want you to know that I am very much committed to seeing that the reality of 100% of our roads having some sort of bike accommodation there you are all every one of you in this room is a taxpayer you you have paid for these roads and every single one of you has spoken in favor of more bike accommodations so we ought to make that a reality we owe that to you the citizens the taxpayers to make that happen unfortunately I can't I guess legally add that to my motion tonight but I want you to know I'm gonna bring it up here in a minute so I move for approval of the mobility plan with that the option of the H ickory Creek addition to the south and option a for the post oak addition not option one but option a that takes it north and to the west yeah and that would be that's my motion just a clarification Commissioner Bruegel what about Collins oh pardon me I thank you Collins yet thank you chair so Collins was was not included in the mobility plan for this evening so I would like to also not include that in my motion thank you for the clarification Commissioner Rose lle I second the motion as Commissioner Bruegel stated so elo quently yes we have a first and a second any further discussion or comments no more okay I will call for a vote on the board the motion passes six to zero that will take us to our final item for this evening to do our concluding items Commissioner Bruegel thank you chair I would like something to be added to the matrix for us to review the design criteria manual to ensure that all future road construction in Denton requires some bike accommodation in addition to sidewalks thank you the bicycle component of the mobility yes ma'am and every review of the bicycle component thank you Commissioner Roselle thank you chair it is my understanding from Julie Anderson that the bike counts that have been done over the seven sites back in September would be available this month I would request a report from perhaps Julie Anderson if it 's applicable from her to provide the the bike counts from that study back in September Commissioner Bruegel thank you chair I also have meaning to bring this up there's a tiny house movement that's really taken off in a lot of the denser urban areas and I'm not quite clear in our development code if tiny houses are allowed because there's a certain lot coverage that's required and I just to be clear that these are not necessarily out buildings such as like a garage apartment but I'm just wondering if we I don't think we have anything in our development code that clearly defines a tiny house and or if they are permissible in the city limits I was just kind of curious if we could explore that are you talking if I could just clarify that for the record are you talking about with a primary structure or standalone I'm like a grandmother pod or no no no no no like as a standalone I mean I've seen you probably seen these in dense urban areas where they have tiny houses kind of all lined up and they create little neighborhoods of tiny houses so just if we could explore that in the future thank you any other items for our future agenda sure with regard to Commissioner Bruegel and Commissioner Roselle's request on the information on the design criteria manual the bicycle component of the mobility plan and the bike counts we will get with the relevant departments and we will coordinate that activity with them and try and get you that information so as soon as we have some timelines from them coordinate that seeing no other comments I'm going to close our planning and zoning commission meeting tonight at 850 thank you all for coming out and sharing your comments