WEBVTT

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It's 532 and we have a quorum present and this meeting has

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been duly posted and I will open this meeting to receive a

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report and discussion on the recommended Denton mobility

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plan.

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And as a point of order as chair, I spoke with staff about

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this. I think what might help all of us in the essence of

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time tonight

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is to observe somewhat like what we do in council chambers

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is let's go through, we're going to have seven items.

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Let the presentation do each of those items. If you have a

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question that's not addressed to that item, let's make note

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of it.

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And when that item is presented, we'll open the floor for

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questions at that time and I think it will help our meeting

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this evening run a lot smoother.

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So I would ask all commissioners to give me that leeway

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tonight.

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We'll open with PSRORA.

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Good evening and thank you very much. I do appreciate you

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indulging me in this special call meeting and I happen to

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be the only item on the agenda.

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So we'll have some time to go through today.

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What I'm going to try and do is answer the questions that

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came up in the last meeting.

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Which one of them was how we go about exacting, doing the

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road exactions when development comes in.

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So I have some slides I'll go through that that relate to

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what is in the current DEN Development Code or DDC.

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The question about ex-commissioner that raised the

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alignment of the post-walk road and we have some options

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that we'll show you.

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Commissioner Taylor had raised a question about north-south

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connectivity on the west part of town as well as connection

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, east-west connection on the south part of the town.

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So we have put together some options and we'll share that

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information with you.

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And with that we'll get started.

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So we'll start with how we go about a new development comes

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into town.

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What is it that they have to do to comply with the DEN

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Development Code in terms of road improvements and how they

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're exacted currently.

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So a new development that comes in, as you can see, it is

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going to create traffic.

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And that traffic is going to come on the existing road.

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And also if the development is existing but they're going

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to add to that and put a bit so there's higher intensity of

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usage so there'll be more traffic generated.

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All that traffic has to be accommodated on the public right

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-of-way.

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So there's a cost. That cost is exacted as part of the

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development process.

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One of them will be the perimeter street improvement.

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If it is on an unimproved street. So what is an unimproved

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street?

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If a road has no curb and girder and it does not meet our

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current width requirements for our criteria manual.

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I'll show you some cross sections later on that show what a

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road that meets the criteria, what it looks like.

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But an unimproved road would be without any curb and girder

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and currently not meeting the width requirement.

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So if they happen to abut the unimproved road, then per DDC

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and the transportation criteria manual,

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if it is a collector's street, they happen to be on a

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collector's street, they have to construct 25 foot of the

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road section,

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which is like a two lane traffic and they have to construct

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the sidewalk, curb and girder and dedicate also the right-

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of-way from the center line of the road to interior of their

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property.

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On a collector's street, it will be half of 70, which will

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be 35 feet. On a secondary arterial, which is a four lane

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highway, divided highway, the right-of-way is 110 feet.

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So that would be 55 feet from the center into their

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property. They might have to dedicate 5 feet, they may have

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to dedicate 20 feet to get to that 55 feet.

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But in their primary arterial, that is 135 foot right-of-

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way, so it's 67 and a half feet right-of-way dedication. If

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it is an arterial street, they have to construct 28 foot of

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the road section,

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and I'll show you why in the cross section, as well as the

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curb and girder, sidewalk, etc.

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On a new perimeter street, if that road is not there and a

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development comes in and it needs a new perimeter street,

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then they have to dedicate the right-of-way, depending on

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what the classification of that road is.

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They have to construct 25 feet of the section for a

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collector's street, or if it is an arterial, then required

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bicycle lane plus the 25 feet and the sidewalk.

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On a collector's street, the sidewalks are 8 feet, and on

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an arterial street, secondary or primary, they are 5 foot

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sidewalks.

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And sidewalk, if there is already the road there, but there

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's no sidewalk, a development comes in, they have to

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construct the sidewalk.

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Signal cost, if the development happens to be close to an

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intersection, and we have in our master plan a signal to be

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constructed at that location,

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then based on the traffic generation, we calculate what

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share they have to pay towards the signal cost construction

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.

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So that is also collected as part of the DDC.

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The caveat to all that is a requirement put on all cities

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by the state law, which is proportionality assessment.

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We have a computer model that we had purchased from Kimley

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Home many years back.

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And we use that, it's part of the ordinance, where the

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developer would ask us to run that model.

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And if it is only a retail store coming in, and the burden

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of constructing a 25 foot road and dedicating all the right

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of way may not be proportionate to the amount of traffic

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being generated.

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So the computer model that we have, it accounts for the

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traffic generated from that particular development.

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It looks at what is the classification of that road.

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It looks at what is the frontage of that, and then it comes

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out with what is how much of the capacity they are using in

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that road section based on the traffic generation.

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So then if it is 100%, then they are going to pay 100% of

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the cost.

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If it is only 20%, they have to pay only 20% of the cost of

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that road section.

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So we sit down and we calculate for a 25 foot road section

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or a 28 foot road section on their frontage.

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What is the cost of that with the sidewalk and the right of

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way also.

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So we look at the right of way. We look at the appraisal

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district.

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What is the right of way cost? We add all that up and say

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it is $100,000.

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So if it is only 20%, they only have to pay 20%, $20,000.

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All right?

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And the current, this is the current process.

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So that money, then it is tied to that location only

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because with $20,000, we can't build that road section.

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Right? So the worker is going to give us the money.

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That money goes into account.

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That is good for 10 years.

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If we don't use that money in 10 years and build something

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on that road which does include that address, we cannot use

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that money.

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In 10 years, after 10 years, that money goes back to them.

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And that is where we are going to the road impact fees

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because we can collect the road impact fees and be able to

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pull them in a service area and be able to use those monies

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.

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That is the benefit of going to a road impact fee.

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So the proportionality assessment is one of the tools that

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we use in a computer model.

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So those are the current ways that we determine exactions

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for roads.

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So here is a road cross section you can see.

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And I was talking about 135 foot right of way where you

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have a back to back 40 foot pavement including the curve

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here.

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And a 5 foot sidewalk with a 10 foot buffer in there.

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So the developer, if they were on a 135 foot right of way,

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they had to dedicate from this point to their property line

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.

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They had to make sure it is 67 and a half feet all across

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their frontage.

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If it is not, then they have to get back into their

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property and dedicate that.

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Then come back and construct all of this, 16 and 12, 28

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foot.

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That is the 28 foot coming in on a arterial street.

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And on a secondary arterial is 110 foot right of way, so 55

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foot.

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Do the 28 foot construction, construct the 5 foot sidewalk.

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On a collector street, 70 foot right of way, dedicate 35

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foot.

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8 foot sidewalk construction and 25 foot pavement

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construction.

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Of course all with a caveat with the proportionality

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assessment.

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Okay?

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So that is how the current DDC works.

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And the road impact fees that we will go to will replace

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all of this.

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And we will determine road impact fees based on the traffic

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generation from that particular entity that is coming in.

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If there are any questions up to this point, I will be

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happy to answer those.

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Commissioner Rosale.

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Thank you, Chair.

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If they are required to only build out their portion of the

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frontage road, is the city obligated at that time to

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complete the other half?

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Or is it just half a road at that point?

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This is where you run into those, they will build that 25

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foot segment on their frontage.

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And then they will go back to the existing road with a

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transition.

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And that's what they will do.

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And since cities don't have the money, that will maybe be

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like that for 10 or 15 years or so.

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Until we collect enough money to do a project on.

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Thank you.

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Commissioner Back.

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Thank you, Chair.

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Proportionality assessment, that is based on the traffic

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they are going to bring in, right?

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That's pretty much it, right?

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So if all the traffic is coming in, that's the 100% we are

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talking about?

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Yeah, if the model shows that it is 100%, then they pay 100

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% of the cost of that road construction on their frontage.

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That doesn't get impacted later if something else comes in

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and offsets that?

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Well, you know, it is determined during the planning

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process, they tell us what use it will be.

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So that's how we run the model.

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But later on, they come back and say, hey, the use has gone

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down.

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Then we do work with it.

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Yes.

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Thank you.

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Commissioner Dadovich.

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Thank you.

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You're showing us some concepts here.

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Are these based on current DVC requirements?

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Go through existing primary arterial or existing?

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Yeah, that's existing.

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That requires a 24 foot median, correct?

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That's right.

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How many of these types of roads do we have with 24 foot

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median currently?

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Not very many.

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But that's the goal, to build those.

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Why?

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Why do we need 24 foot?

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The turn lanes are one of the issues.

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We mentioned that last time.

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It allows you to cut into the median at the intersection to

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put your turn lanes.

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Otherwise, you don't have a place to put a turn lane.

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Okay.

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DOT is building roads and I don't have seen a 24 foot

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median in that gap term.

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So what my point is, and this is my, okay, and Chair

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explains for future development,

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my concern is in current developed areas, residents where

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we're going to make improvements,

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and I'm seeing and thinking that all of a sudden now we're

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going to start taking property

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in order to build 24 foot medians and buffers that are

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going to require condemnation and taking up property.

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And that is where the alternate cross sections will come

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into play.

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Where, you know, we may not be able to get all the right

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over.

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So if you cannot get all the right over because you've got

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all these apartments built up and very expensive millions

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of dollars of investment,

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and you can't buy it, Eagle Drive, look at Eagle Drive.

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You can't really buy any right over there.

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Right, you can't.

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So if you can, then you have to adjust your cross section

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at that time.

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You will adjust the cross section?

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Yes, sir.

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Because I'm afraid that, you know, I've seen all these

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mobility plans and they're going to start going through

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residential areas.

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A lot of this will be for new, there's a lot of area in the

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city which is brand new.

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You've got almost 9,000 acres in adjusting your MPCs,

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master plan communities, close to 9,000 acres.

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And the cross sections they will use are these cross

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sections.

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I understand. New stuff, I understand completely.

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I'm just worried about current existing, for instance, the

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Bonnie Bray situation, where we're having to condemn, not

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condemn,

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but have to buy property and owners are wondering why do we

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have to do this when we have an existing four lane highway,

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by the way, at 35 miles per hour and all of a sudden now we

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're looking at this.

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I'm not sure, because the city is now going to be

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responsible for buying property.

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Yeah, this Bonnie Bray and Mayhill Road both, majority of

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the funding is coming from the 121 project where the RTR

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funding is coming in.

00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:29.840
The 121 project was initially by bonds that TexDOT sold,

00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:33.840
but now you actually have to pay money to get on 121.

00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:37.809
So TexDOT was able to free up those bonds and that's what

00:14:37.809 --> 00:14:42.039
is being used partly for Bonnie Bray construction and May

00:14:42.039 --> 00:14:42.840
hill Road construction.

00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:46.909
80% of the money being used for those roads is coming from

00:14:46.909 --> 00:14:47.840
the state.

00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:52.980
And follow up, just for the benefit of some of the new

00:14:52.980 --> 00:14:57.659
commissioners, I've been on a sort of a pirate, if anything

00:14:57.659 --> 00:14:58.840
, more than that,

00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:04.970
where engineering in this situation can plan a road, but

00:15:04.970 --> 00:15:08.429
they have no oversight as to when it's going to have 24

00:15:08.429 --> 00:15:09.840
foot and when it's not.

00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:14.529
And if they can enclose existing entrances and exits out of

00:15:14.529 --> 00:15:15.840
businesses and what not.

00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:20.159
There's not an existing format to oversee that other than

00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:23.580
have a town meeting, make recommendations and they take it

00:15:23.580 --> 00:15:24.840
back and they may or may not,

00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:30.840
at their discretion, follow what the populace would like.

00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:35.190
So I've been asking the process by which planning and

00:15:35.190 --> 00:15:39.840
zoning can suggest or take to city council.

00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:43.480
The fact is that let's take a look at that if it makes

00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:46.840
logic and sense to close a street, a road, a driveway,

00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.840
anything that has to do with current situations.

00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:53.840
But there is currently no oversight.

00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:57.840
So they kind of get to do what they think is best.

00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:01.190
And I think that we need a citizen's review of that as we

00:16:01.190 --> 00:16:04.840
do with plot plans and other site plans and everything else

00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:06.840
to make sure it makes sense.

00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:10.159
Now we're not asking to be engineers to look at, are they

00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:13.190
using six inch concrete or are they using rebar or what's

00:16:13.190 --> 00:16:14.840
the curb cuts look like or whatever.

00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:17.840
That's their par view.

00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:20.159
But something to look at it and say, for instance, we

00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:23.450
looked at a couple of plots and turns and where roads were

00:16:23.450 --> 00:16:26.470
going and you drive that and you go, that doesn't make

00:16:26.470 --> 00:16:26.840
sense.

00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:29.840
Well, same thing can happen in the city.

00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:33.480
And I would like to be able to think that we have a way to

00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:37.259
a process by which we can review it and do a logic check on

00:16:37.259 --> 00:16:37.840
it.

00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:41.840
I think there's a clarification staff.

00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:42.840
Thank you, Chairperson.

00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:46.759
Just for the edification of the commissioners, would you

00:16:46.759 --> 00:16:50.690
please differentiate between text dot right of way as well

00:16:50.690 --> 00:16:54.259
as city owned right of way and as it relates to where we

00:16:54.259 --> 00:16:58.210
would install potential pedestrian utility easements and

00:16:58.210 --> 00:17:01.980
how that would impact, for instance, the illustration that

00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:04.480
we have before us as far as the buffers are shown and the

00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:05.839
tree plantings are shown.

00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:09.839
So that the commission has a very clear understanding of is

00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:13.759
what they see on the ground or potentially what they see on

00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:14.839
the ground.

00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:17.160
Is it going to look like that or is it going to look

00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:17.839
differently?

00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:21.480
So just so if we can clarify that point, because in some

00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:24.410
instances we may not have the ability to provide the tree

00:17:24.410 --> 00:17:25.839
plantings either.

00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:27.839
Okay.

00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:31.839
If it is a city street, so the city owns a right of way,

00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:34.839
then the utilities can be placed in the right of way.

00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:35.839
And we do.

00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:38.569
All the roads that you see in residential areas or

00:17:38.569 --> 00:17:41.839
collector streets, civil line goes right in the middle.

00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:43.839
Because that is the high point.

00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:47.170
And we don't want the water flow from during storm events

00:17:47.170 --> 00:17:48.839
to go into the manholes.

00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:51.589
If the manhole is busted a little bit, all that water will

00:17:51.589 --> 00:17:52.839
go into the manhole.

00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:54.519
And that is extra water that we don't need in the civil

00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:54.839
line.

00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:56.839
So civil lines get put in the middle.

00:17:56.839 --> 00:18:00.730
Water lines by state law have to be nine feet away from the

00:18:00.730 --> 00:18:04.839
civil line so they get put in close to the curb down here.

00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:09.759
And storm water lines usually will be on the other side of

00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:10.839
the road.

00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:14.839
The franchise utilities usually go in the parkway.

00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:17.839
Or you also go in the right of way also.

00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:21.170
There are a lot of Verizon and Atmos lines which are in the

00:18:21.170 --> 00:18:21.839
roads.

00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:24.839
And they are there.

00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:27.839
So that is the city right of way.

00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:32.539
If it is Tex-Dot or county, then with Tex-Dot what happens

00:18:32.539 --> 00:18:35.900
is if we got a -- they have a utility accommodation zone

00:18:35.900 --> 00:18:37.839
that they allow you.

00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:41.529
And it is not very wide, but all the utilities, if it is

00:18:41.529 --> 00:18:46.200
water or sewer or all the franchise utilities, Verizon, At

00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:49.670
mos, cable or what have you, they all go in that

00:18:49.670 --> 00:18:50.839
accommodation zone.

00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:54.809
So we try not to put water or sewer utilities in the

00:18:54.809 --> 00:18:56.839
accommodation zone.

00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:01.660
But we have lots of utilities right now on 380, on Fort

00:19:01.660 --> 00:19:06.319
Worth Drive, Loop 288 we had, where we had to spend

00:19:06.319 --> 00:19:09.599
millions of dollars because those were constructed in an

00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:10.839
existing right of way.

00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:14.180
And when Tex-Dot came in to expand those roads, we had to

00:19:14.180 --> 00:19:17.539
spend the money at our cost to move those utilities out of

00:19:17.539 --> 00:19:18.839
the right of way.

00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.650
So that is where our policy right now is to buy easements

00:19:22.650 --> 00:19:25.839
and put those utilities in the easements.

00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:28.839
It is not cheap to put a water or sewer line.

00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:32.609
Eight inch line will cost you $100 a foot to put a sewer

00:19:32.609 --> 00:19:33.839
line out there.

00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:34.839
So it is very expensive.

00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:38.839
It costs millions of dollars to do projects out there.

00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:42.809
So that is the difference between a right of way owned by

00:19:42.809 --> 00:19:46.839
the county and the state versus city owned right of way.

00:19:46.839 --> 00:19:50.480
Because we have the right to go in our own right of way and

00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:52.839
maintain that water or sewer line.

00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:55.839
We can't do that in Tex-Dot or county.

00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:56.839
We have to get permits from them.

00:19:56.839 --> 00:19:59.569
We have to meet their requirements on the road

00:19:59.569 --> 00:20:00.839
reconstruction.

00:20:00.839 --> 00:20:04.480
In our case, we work with our own departments, state

00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:05.839
departments to work on that.

00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:12.910
So what happens is these street trees that you see right

00:20:12.910 --> 00:20:18.519
here sometimes, the roots, you know, if there is a sewer

00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:18.839
line,

00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:22.160
that is going to be put in, you know, out here in the eas

00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:22.839
ement.

00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:26.630
Then if the tree is very close to the sewer line, the roots

00:20:26.630 --> 00:20:31.009
of the trees, they penetrate the pipe, especially the

00:20:31.009 --> 00:20:31.839
joints.

00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:35.549
Currently, on the wastewater department, we spend close to

00:20:35.549 --> 00:20:38.839
$100,000 a year just in root treatment.

00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:42.480
Because these are sewer lines built where now we have trees

00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:46.839
growing and roots go down and they like the water that is

00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:49.839
going through the sewer line.

00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:51.839
And that's what they want.

00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:54.900
So they find a way to get into the joints and they push the

00:20:54.900 --> 00:20:55.839
joints out.

00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:56.839
They mess up the pipes.

00:20:56.839 --> 00:20:58.839
It's a very expensive process.

00:20:58.839 --> 00:21:01.839
So that's where, and same thing for our water lines.

00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:06.259
So we've got to keep these trees a certain distance away or

00:21:06.259 --> 00:21:15.490
have a clean, you know, some sort of a wall that will be

00:21:15.490 --> 00:21:15.839
there,

00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:21.490
that will control the root growth downwards and not towards

00:21:21.490 --> 00:21:23.839
the water sewer line.

00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:26.839
So sometimes we run into those issues.

00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:29.160
And we have textile roads and now we've got a water and

00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:29.839
sewer line.

00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:34.539
We bought the easement and we spent, you know, $5 a square

00:21:34.539 --> 00:21:37.170
foot or $10 a square foot to buy that easement and we have

00:21:37.170 --> 00:21:38.839
to put the sewer line or water line.

00:21:38.839 --> 00:21:41.839
It's very hard to accommodate trees in that area.

00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:48.230
We do allow some landscaping, which is at, you know, if we

00:21:48.230 --> 00:21:51.920
had to go back and fix the water sewer line, that's the

00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:55.839
cost of the owner to put that back in.

00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:57.839
Okay.

00:21:57.839 --> 00:21:58.839
Commissioner Bruegel.

00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:00.839
Thank you, Chair.

00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:02.980
Yes, I'd like to change gears here for just a second and

00:22:02.980 --> 00:22:04.839
talk about bikes because that's my thing.

00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:12.950
Can you go back to that, the slide about the perimeter

00:22:12.950 --> 00:22:14.839
streets?

00:22:14.839 --> 00:22:16.839
Yeah, new perimeter streets.

00:22:16.839 --> 00:22:19.839
They're required to build a bike lane.

00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:23.619
Is that a dedicated bike lane or is that just simply a wide

00:22:23.619 --> 00:22:24.839
outside lane?

00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:25.839
Can you define that?

00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:29.970
In the areas where based on the city's master bike plan, it

00:22:29.970 --> 00:22:32.839
will be a dedicated bike lane with markings on it.

00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:33.839
Okay.

00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:39.130
So it'll be striped, it won't just be right over here in

00:22:39.130 --> 00:22:40.839
the shoulder.

00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:43.259
Yeah, that's what I, and I served on, and I'm embarrassed,

00:22:43.259 --> 00:22:45.839
I served on the bike lane, but that was like six years ago.

00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:49.150
So I, sometimes I draw a blank as to what exactly is in

00:22:49.150 --> 00:22:49.839
there.

00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:53.839
We haven't implemented much of it until just recently.

00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:55.839
There is some work now actually going on.

00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:57.839
There is some now, yes, right.

00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:01.839
But did the bike plan include construction of new streets?

00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:06.140
As I recall it, it was just we highlighted what we have

00:23:06.140 --> 00:23:09.480
currently in Denton and said that these are going to be the

00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:10.839
streets that we're going to put bike lanes on.

00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:14.569
But I don't recall us talking about future construction,

00:23:14.569 --> 00:23:15.839
future streets.

00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:17.839
Well, they're like Sycamore Street.

00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:21.099
You know, if you look at Sycamore in the, that was a

00:23:21.099 --> 00:23:24.839
project that I did, the downtown implementation plan.

00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:31.839
So we did a road master plan for the DTP area.

00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:37.839
And that, so we did several computer models from that.

00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:42.339
And Sycamore, if I remember, it showed a bike lane from the

00:23:42.339 --> 00:23:44.839
bus station all the way to UNT.

00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:46.839
And I remember this because that's an existing street.

00:23:46.839 --> 00:23:48.839
So we're talking about new streets.

00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:51.160
And when I look at the mobility plan, we're adding a lot of

00:23:51.160 --> 00:23:51.839
new streets.

00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:54.460
And I'm not quite sure that the bike, that the bike plan

00:23:54.460 --> 00:23:57.210
that we did as a city five, six years ago talks

00:23:57.210 --> 00:23:59.839
specifically about new streets.

00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:02.740
So as long as we're talking about new streets here with the

00:24:02.740 --> 00:24:06.190
new mobility plan, I would like a really clear definition

00:24:06.190 --> 00:24:07.839
of what is a bicycle lane.

00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:10.799
What exactly are they required to provide when they're

00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:12.839
building a new perimeter street?

00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:13.839
Is it simply a stripe?

00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:14.839
Is it a share-o?

00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:16.839
Is it a wide outside lane?

00:24:16.839 --> 00:24:18.839
Is it something with a barrier?

00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:22.480
And it could be, you know, it could be sensitive, it could

00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:25.839
be specific to the neighborhood or the area.

00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:29.519
But I'd like a clear definition on what exactly they're

00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:31.839
required to provide with this.

00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:34.609
And if you recall, I had done a presentation, a couple of

00:24:34.609 --> 00:24:38.859
presentations back, which was on the context sensitive

00:24:38.859 --> 00:24:39.839
design.

00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:40.839
Yes.

00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:44.799
And then we have some cross-sections that we have put

00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:45.839
together.

00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:50.210
They need to be vetted so that there are some alternate

00:24:50.210 --> 00:24:54.839
cross-sections as that was pointed out.

00:24:54.839 --> 00:24:57.089
If it's an existing road and a neighborhood and you can't

00:24:57.089 --> 00:24:59.640
do anything with it to buy more right away, then what's the

00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:00.839
best use of that road?

00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:04.480
How do you get the maximum benefit that the stakeholders

00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:05.839
want in that area?

00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:06.839
And who would oversee that?

00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:09.839
Would that be the Traffic Safety Commission or is that P&Z?

00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:12.839
Actually, it goes through the Mobility Committee.

00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:15.910
And sometimes, you know, they would ask me to go to the

00:25:15.910 --> 00:25:17.839
Traffic Safety Commission.

00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:22.839
And then, of course, it goes to the council.

00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.180
If you all want to see it, once I get to the Mobility

00:25:26.180 --> 00:25:27.839
Committee, I'll be happy to bring it back.

00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:31.130
And you can show you what the bike line would look like and

00:25:31.130 --> 00:25:31.839
all that.

00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:32.839
Well, I'd like to see that.

00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:33.839
That'd be great.

00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:34.839
If you could also --

00:25:34.839 --> 00:25:38.130
Or I can show it to you individually that we can share that

00:25:38.130 --> 00:25:38.839
with you.

00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:39.839
Okay.

00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:40.839
But thank you.

00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:41.839
I would like to see that.

00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:45.480
But again, if we could maybe kind of firm up this

00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:47.710
definition of what it -- because there's a lot of different

00:25:47.710 --> 00:25:50.839
ways that we can build bike lanes in Denton.

00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:53.720
So if we could maybe provide a clear definition for what

00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:56.839
that requirement is, I think that would be helpful.

00:25:56.839 --> 00:26:03.269
And my next question, too, again about bikes, it's on the

00:26:03.269 --> 00:26:05.839
-- one of the slides where you have the cross-sections

00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:06.839
where Commissioner Dudowitz was talking about the --

00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:08.839
Yeah, I can go back to that.

00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:10.839
The big median there.

00:26:10.839 --> 00:26:11.839
Yeah, okay.

00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:15.839
So an existing primary arterial.

00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:19.839
So I see -- this is kind of our pie-in-the-sky idea.

00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:22.509
This is what we'd really like all of our primary arterials

00:26:22.509 --> 00:26:23.839
to look like in the city.

00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:24.839
Yes.

00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:25.839
Right.

00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:26.839
And again, where's the bike lane?

00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:27.839
And I'm wondering --

00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:30.420
That's where, you know, the cross-sections that we have

00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:34.839
done, they do include a dedicated bike lane.

00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:36.839
Either --

00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:38.839
I don't -- but I don't see it here.

00:26:38.839 --> 00:26:43.160
-- enlarged sidewalk here or dedicated right here in this

00:26:43.160 --> 00:26:43.839
area.

00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:47.019
So secondary or collector's streets, there are several

00:26:47.019 --> 00:26:48.839
options that we came up with.

00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:50.839
And I want to run it through the mobility committee.

00:26:50.839 --> 00:26:52.839
Do you have slides to show me?

00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:53.839
Not here.

00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:54.839
Okay.

00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:58.609
I did show it to you all, you know, probably two or three

00:26:58.609 --> 00:26:58.839
--

00:26:58.839 --> 00:26:59.839
It's been a few months ago.

00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:00.839
Yeah.

00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:01.839
Okay.

00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:02.839
Because I was --

00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:03.839
I'll be happy to send that to you.

00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:04.839
That'd be great.

00:27:04.839 --> 00:27:05.839
Thank you.

00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:08.490
Because my concern here is with this -- this extra four

00:27:08.490 --> 00:27:10.839
feet for this wide outside lane,

00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:14.119
that seems like space that could be better used to help

00:27:14.119 --> 00:27:15.839
move people not in cars.

00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:16.839
Yeah.

00:27:16.839 --> 00:27:19.880
These lanes markings, you know, the lanes actually go down

00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:20.839
to 11 feet.

00:27:20.839 --> 00:27:22.839
They are not quite 12 and 16.

00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:27.839
So that allows for the bike lane to be marked there.

00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:29.839
The question is, how do you construct it?

00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:32.839
You know, you have that two-foot marking there,

00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:35.839
but do you want to actually have a physical barrier?

00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:36.839
Right.

00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:37.839
And that's what you're talking about with the context.

00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:38.839
So --

00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:39.839
Sensitive.

00:27:39.839 --> 00:27:40.839
Perfect.

00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:41.839
Okay.

00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:42.839
Okay.

00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:43.839
Thank you.

00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:44.839
Okay.

00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:45.839
Move on.

00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:50.829
The other big question that was, you know, came up in the

00:27:50.829 --> 00:27:52.839
work session as well as in

00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:55.960
the public hearing was the question on the post-hook

00:27:55.960 --> 00:27:56.839
alignment.

00:27:56.839 --> 00:28:00.930
And we got some options that we have brought here today to

00:28:00.930 --> 00:28:02.839
get you situated here.

00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:04.839
It's Sherman, 428.

00:28:04.839 --> 00:28:07.839
Here's the natural preserve right here.

00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:11.839
Post-hook comes along right here.

00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:16.839
And this is Lakeview and Mayhill Road back here.

00:28:16.839 --> 00:28:21.440
So in what you saw before, this was a routing that we

00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:22.839
showed you.

00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:26.759
And we have pulled some numbers, traffic numbers that the

00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:28.839
computer model that was done,

00:28:28.839 --> 00:28:31.970
that we shared with you in my first presentation, the

00:28:31.970 --> 00:28:33.839
computer model was run for the entire

00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:39.950
city for the existing condition that we got right now to

00:28:39.950 --> 00:28:41.839
see what roads are stressed at

00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:45.349
this time and, of course, to calibrate the model because we

00:28:45.349 --> 00:28:46.839
went out to 112 different

00:28:46.839 --> 00:28:50.099
locations in the city and got the actual traffic data and

00:28:50.099 --> 00:28:51.839
calibrated the model to that data.

00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:55.059
So once that model was calibrated, that's when we went in

00:28:55.059 --> 00:28:56.839
and we took the full mobility

00:28:56.839 --> 00:28:58.839
plan and ran the computer model.

00:28:58.839 --> 00:29:02.049
So when we ran the model, these are the traffic numbers

00:29:02.049 --> 00:29:03.839
that you are seeing coming off of

00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:04.839
Sherman.

00:29:04.839 --> 00:29:07.619
This is really, you know, Sherman and then people who want

00:29:07.619 --> 00:29:08.839
to go from here or coming

00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:13.289
from that side, 20,000, here's 25,000 actually going in

00:29:13.289 --> 00:29:13.839
here.

00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:18.839
So that is the 25,000 coming on post-hook.

00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:24.839
One option, here is Cooper Creek Road right here.

00:29:24.839 --> 00:29:26.839
And that was, you know, on the mark.

00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:30.190
Sometimes out of the box thinking comes from people who

00:29:30.190 --> 00:29:32.839
look from different areas and we

00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:34.839
get tunnel vision sometimes.

00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:36.839
So there are two options.

00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:39.839
One is this one right here and one is further north.

00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:42.839
This one would run through kind of adjusting development.

00:29:42.839 --> 00:29:46.839
This one would bypass all of the development right here.

00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:49.220
So this would be going through Greenfield right here in

00:29:49.220 --> 00:29:49.839
this area.

00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:51.839
A lot easier to manage.

00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:54.980
Now, would this be a very high-profile project to put in

00:29:54.980 --> 00:29:55.839
right now?

00:29:55.839 --> 00:29:57.839
I seriously doubt that.

00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:00.839
This part of post-hook is not constructed yet.

00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:05.369
From preserve on, all that has to be constructed and right

00:30:05.369 --> 00:30:06.839
away obtained.

00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:10.160
And money is available to do all that construction, which

00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:12.839
would be tens of millions of dollars.

00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:15.250
Is the city going to be in a big hurry to come in and add

00:30:15.250 --> 00:30:15.839
this in?

00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:17.839
Not at this time.

00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:19.839
We've got lots and lots of projects.

00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:23.150
When I bring the numbers to you on road impact fees, you

00:30:23.150 --> 00:30:25.839
will see what is the current need

00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:27.839
and what is the projected need in 10 years.

00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:29.839
This one will be a very low priority right now.

00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:34.140
But for the mobility plan, with your blessing, you know, we

00:30:34.140 --> 00:30:37.839
can go and take this option.

00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:41.049
One of the benefits of this option, when we cross the creek

00:30:41.049 --> 00:30:43.839
right here, this is a shorter

00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:45.839
floodplain area to cross.

00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:50.049
So shorter bridge, cheaper cost versus right here, much

00:30:50.049 --> 00:30:50.839
longer bridge.

00:30:50.839 --> 00:30:52.839
So much more cost here on that.

00:30:52.839 --> 00:30:59.839
So this was a good thing that came out of it.

00:30:59.839 --> 00:31:02.099
But the traffic is going to be -- but this is a built-cond

00:31:02.099 --> 00:31:02.839
ition traffic.

00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:03.839
Keep that in mind.

00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:09.839
There's a built-out based on the land use plan done by WRT.

00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:14.839
That's a traffic generation.

00:31:14.839 --> 00:31:15.839
Commissioner Bruegel.

00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:16.839
Thank you, Chair.

00:31:16.839 --> 00:31:20.839
So you talk about how it crosses a much shorter floodplain

00:31:20.839 --> 00:31:22.839
with this option to the west.

00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:25.829
Why then would you route it to the east to continue along,

00:31:25.829 --> 00:31:26.839
skirting that floodplain?

00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:29.880
Why not just continue north and maybe connect it with -- I

00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:32.839
don't know what that green road is up at the top there.

00:31:32.839 --> 00:31:35.740
But it seems like that crosses a lot less -- yeah, there's

00:31:35.740 --> 00:31:37.839
a road up there on the north side.

00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:42.839
Why wouldn't you go -- are there developments in that?

00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:43.839
Yeah, there are.

00:31:43.839 --> 00:31:45.839
Commissioner Rosale.

00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:46.839
Thank you, Chair.

00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:49.839
That directly above it is Elm Fork or Elm Bottom.

00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:50.839
It's an L shape.

00:31:50.839 --> 00:31:52.839
This is floodplain right here.

00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:56.549
And there -- all along that is 20-acre plots of residential

00:31:56.549 --> 00:32:00.839
homes that are kind of ranch-style properties right there.

00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:04.900
So I think going directly north would jeopardize those

00:32:04.900 --> 00:32:07.839
residences kind of country living.

00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:10.180
If you could bypass that to the right, it might be less

00:32:10.180 --> 00:32:10.839
invasive.

00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:11.839
Come down this way.

00:32:11.839 --> 00:32:12.839
Okay.

00:32:12.839 --> 00:32:17.839
Thank you.

00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:22.160
So post-walk is an important route because it does allow

00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:24.839
for people coming down Sherman,

00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:30.789
they want to go to this part of town, it will let them do

00:32:30.789 --> 00:32:31.839
that.

00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:35.480
And also it will allow -- because Mayhill Road, if you

00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:38.839
recall from the model run, it may be hard,

00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:42.970
the sections of Mayhill Road that are going to be LOS

00:32:42.970 --> 00:32:45.839
pretty low with all the traffic.

00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:49.839
If you don't have post-walk, you know, to help it out.

00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:55.839
That way people can make a choice to go on post-walk road.

00:32:55.839 --> 00:32:57.839
Thank you.

00:32:57.839 --> 00:32:58.839
Commissioner Detowes.

00:32:58.839 --> 00:33:02.819
People coming from the north, they're going to come down

00:33:02.819 --> 00:33:03.839
that road.

00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:07.630
But I'm thinking that that western route and where they

00:33:07.630 --> 00:33:10.539
would branch off and come east instead of going down May

00:33:10.539 --> 00:33:10.839
hill,

00:33:10.839 --> 00:33:13.519
these people are either going to come into Denton or going

00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:15.839
to continue down Mayhill to link up with 35.

00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:17.839
And that's the plan for Mayhill.

00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:20.839
So I'm curious of why you're branching out and linking to

00:33:20.839 --> 00:33:24.839
post-walk there because post-walk is going to go back into

00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:25.839
development areas

00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:27.839
and eventually get to 35.

00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:31.900
But the shortest route to get to 35 from up there is down

00:33:31.900 --> 00:33:32.839
Mayhill.

00:33:32.839 --> 00:33:36.640
But that is where you know Mayhill itself is going to be a

00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:37.839
choke point.

00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:41.480
There is going to be -- based on the LOS we see, further

00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:43.839
down there's way too much traffic on it.

00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:45.839
So we need a reliever.

00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:49.539
And the post-walk is currently designated as one of the

00:33:49.539 --> 00:33:52.839
arterial streets coming from preserve area.

00:33:52.839 --> 00:33:56.089
And all we are doing is allowing this to continue to take

00:33:56.089 --> 00:33:57.839
that load off of Mayhill.

00:33:57.839 --> 00:33:58.839
Sure.

00:33:58.839 --> 00:34:01.160
And all I'm suggesting is that some of us take the least

00:34:01.160 --> 00:34:03.839
resistant route and would rather go straight down Mayhill

00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:04.839
to get to 35.

00:34:04.839 --> 00:34:08.510
So as you've suggested, some of us drive and we know these

00:34:08.510 --> 00:34:11.519
things to bring forward some ideas and some other options

00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:11.840
to make --

00:34:11.840 --> 00:34:14.960
And then people when they -- when we're talking about 30,

00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:17.710
40, 50 years down the road, you know, to make this happen

00:34:17.710 --> 00:34:17.840
--

00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:18.840
Well, you're going to have -- Mayhill --

00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:21.280
And they will know after they drive two times during that

00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:23.840
time, they will know, hey, I need to go on this road.

00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:24.840
Sure.

00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:25.840
Well, understand.

00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:28.840
But 30 or 40 years from now, we'll see, right?

00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:29.840
Yes, sir.

00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:32.280
And these -- you know, these -- as we go through the impact

00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:34.670
free process, by state law, every five years we have to

00:34:34.670 --> 00:34:35.840
come back and update.

00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:40.099
So this is not something drawn in rock and it ain't going

00:34:40.099 --> 00:34:41.840
to move from there.

00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:42.840
Sure.

00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:44.840
Commissioner Rosl.

00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:45.840
Thank you.

00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:50.119
The idea behind the post oak would be to have a north-south

00:34:50.119 --> 00:34:52.840
corridor from 35 up to Shurm.

00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:53.840
Is that correct?

00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:54.840
Yes.

00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:55.840
That's the intent?

00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:56.840
Yeah.

00:34:56.840 --> 00:34:58.670
And the preserve, as you can see, is very congested already

00:34:58.670 --> 00:34:58.840
.

00:34:58.840 --> 00:35:01.840
They have very limited ways to get to the town.

00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:03.840
So this allows them to, you know, come through.

00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:06.840
Lakeview, Willowwater is supposed to come through there.

00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:09.190
But it didn't happen because I was going through a

00:35:09.190 --> 00:35:11.840
neighborhood and they were in strong opposition.

00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:16.199
So city decided to move that from there and move to post

00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:16.840
oak.

00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:20.219
So one of my questions is -- we talked about it previously

00:35:20.219 --> 00:35:24.110
-- is if the intent is to, one, eliminate some traffic and,

00:35:24.110 --> 00:35:29.840
two, expedite travel north-south would be ideal,

00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:33.840
although this goes west, then north, then back east.

00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:37.619
And so I'd be interested to see if Kimley-Horn could maybe

00:35:37.619 --> 00:35:39.840
estimate time, travel time.

00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:40.840
Yeah.

00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:41.840
And we'll get back to you on that.

00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:42.840
Okay.

00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:44.840
If there's a significant difference.

00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:45.840
Okay.

00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:48.449
And we'll get back to you on that either through email or

00:35:48.449 --> 00:35:51.139
when I come back in the public hearing process, we'll

00:35:51.139 --> 00:35:52.840
provide you that information.

00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:53.840
Okay.

00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:58.840
Okay.

00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:04.349
After that, what I'm going to do is get out of this one

00:36:04.349 --> 00:36:07.840
PowerPoint and show you a map.

00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:09.840
I think I have it right here.

00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:10.840
Yeah.

00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:11.840
Right here.

00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:20.840
And on the west side of town, right now, it's pasture land.

00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:22.840
Not a whole lot out there at this time.

00:36:22.840 --> 00:36:25.840
You know, it's not densely populated in any way.

00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:32.340
The majority of the roads that we are seeing there are the

00:36:32.340 --> 00:36:37.250
ones that are at least on the southwest part are what is

00:36:37.250 --> 00:36:42.530
approved by the PNG and the council for the master plan

00:36:42.530 --> 00:36:44.840
communities of Cold Ranch and Hunter Ranch.

00:36:44.840 --> 00:36:49.389
All these roads that you see right here, all of these in

00:36:49.389 --> 00:36:53.840
this color, they're all approved by the council.

00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:55.840
We cannot change that.

00:36:55.840 --> 00:36:59.409
Only time these roads will change is when these

00:36:59.409 --> 00:37:01.840
developments actually start platting.

00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:04.800
And now that we have a computer model, some of the roads

00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:07.530
you see here are actually way more than the traffic

00:37:07.530 --> 00:37:08.840
generation there.

00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:09.840
That is the model is showing.

00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:11.840
Primary arterials don't need to be primary arterials.

00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:13.840
They could do a secondary arterial.

00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:17.480
Some of those will change, and we can at that time look at

00:37:17.480 --> 00:37:21.260
some alignment changes to see if we can have further north-

00:37:21.260 --> 00:37:23.840
south connectivity at that time.

00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:24.840
There are some issues.

00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:26.840
We have Hickory Creek.

00:37:26.840 --> 00:37:28.840
We have the airport right here.

00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:34.099
Those are major, you know, stumbling blocks to put major

00:37:34.099 --> 00:37:35.840
connectivity.

00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:41.300
You can see this came about from our traffic guys, the ones

00:37:41.300 --> 00:37:43.840
who travel in this area.

00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:45.840
They said, hey, this is one clear shot we got.

00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:48.599
Let's put that one in there so that we have a north-south

00:37:48.599 --> 00:37:49.840
connectivity here.

00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:51.840
There's not that much traffic.

00:37:51.840 --> 00:37:56.050
But if somebody wanted to go all the way out here to 380,

00:37:56.050 --> 00:37:59.840
they could get on that road and get out there and do it.

00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:03.530
One option that we did look at is the Seawolf, and I will

00:38:03.530 --> 00:38:05.840
show you that slide, I guess.

00:38:05.840 --> 00:38:07.840
Maybe not.

00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:11.610
We did extend this road out up to this point, and we need

00:38:11.610 --> 00:38:13.840
to change this map to show it.

00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:18.789
So this Seawolf road currently stops right here on Jim

00:38:18.789 --> 00:38:22.840
Crystal, right, and it will then go up to 380.

00:38:22.840 --> 00:38:25.840
So we'll have -- there's an existing property right here.

00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:27.840
So we'll have to work around that.

00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:31.320
But we will show that as part of the project, as part of

00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:32.840
the mobility plan.

00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:36.480
So that will allow, you know, all the way north-south

00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:37.840
connectivity here.

00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:39.840
This is the arterial.

00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:40.840
This one is not.

00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:42.840
This is a collector's street.

00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:49.230
Then beyond that, there's not a whole lot at this time that

00:38:49.230 --> 00:38:53.840
we have option until these guys start coming in and start,

00:38:53.840 --> 00:38:56.840
you know, planting properties out there.

00:38:56.840 --> 00:39:02.329
And this happens to be a gated community right here in Rob

00:39:02.329 --> 00:39:03.840
eson Ranch.

00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:05.840
We are showing this connection.

00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:07.840
Who knows?

00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:11.849
In 20 years down the road, it is still a gated community or

00:39:11.849 --> 00:39:12.840
what it is.

00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:15.840
So we'll see.

00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:20.329
This is the Robeson Ranch Boulevard that goes -- spine road

00:39:20.329 --> 00:39:23.840
that goes through the Robeson community.

00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:26.840
That is the main entry right here.

00:39:26.840 --> 00:39:30.840
And it runs this way here.

00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:33.659
And we did -- as you can see, we provided a lot of

00:39:33.659 --> 00:39:34.840
connectivity.

00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:38.280
This is based on our traffic guys being out there every day

00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:40.840
, our street guys out there every day.

00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:44.179
And they brought all these issues that were given to the

00:39:44.179 --> 00:39:46.840
consultant to add all these connections here.

00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:50.480
And they all came about because of the traffic guys, all of

00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:52.840
these connections you see right here.

00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:57.840
And then, of course, these are new annexed areas that city

00:39:57.840 --> 00:39:58.840
has now.

00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:01.969
So those were put in based on the traffic generation that

00:40:01.969 --> 00:40:04.539
came out of the computer model as to what collector streets

00:40:04.539 --> 00:40:06.840
we need and what our trail streets we need.

00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:15.840
And provide connectivity to Hills of Denton and to 35.

00:40:15.840 --> 00:40:20.750
So there is one option that we had I want to show you,

00:40:20.750 --> 00:40:22.840
pretty expensive.

00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:27.840
Here's the PowerPoint.

00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:28.840
This one right here.

00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:32.840
This is 1830 right here.

00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:36.059
And this is going to be a very expensive option to find a

00:40:36.059 --> 00:40:39.230
way to connect the west side of town to the east side of

00:40:39.230 --> 00:40:39.840
town.

00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:43.840
And this is 2181 right here.

00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:46.840
So that would be a major bridge crossing.

00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:51.650
And a lot of property purchase and one bridge here and a

00:40:51.650 --> 00:40:54.840
major bridge here at this place.

00:40:54.840 --> 00:40:57.739
My suggestion would be to kind of leave it out right now

00:40:57.739 --> 00:40:59.840
and five years down the road maybe.

00:40:59.840 --> 00:41:04.500
You want to think about it, we can bring it back to take a

00:41:04.500 --> 00:41:06.840
look at it a little more.

00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:10.840
If you want it, I can put that in there.

00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:16.090
Then we have to add that cost and our impact fee cost

00:41:16.090 --> 00:41:17.840
calculation.

00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:18.840
Commissioner Taylor.

00:41:18.840 --> 00:41:19.840
Yes sir.

00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:20.840
Thank you chair.

00:41:20.840 --> 00:41:23.969
Could you return to the map with barriers you had up just a

00:41:23.969 --> 00:41:24.840
moment ago?

00:41:24.840 --> 00:41:25.840
Which one?

00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:34.900
The city wide map with barriers that showed the airport and

00:41:34.900 --> 00:41:36.840
so forth.

00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:40.840
Could you scroll down to that very southern portion?

00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:45.780
I've been looking at this map for quite a while and trying

00:41:45.780 --> 00:41:46.840
to identify.

00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:51.500
With Hickory Creek you have this mile wide barrier from out

00:41:51.500 --> 00:41:55.840
west of the airport all the way to Lake Louisville.

00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:59.840
Half mile to mile wide depending exactly where it is.

00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:02.860
And I think it's in a 13 mile stretch there are five roads

00:42:02.860 --> 00:42:03.840
that cross it.

00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:10.840
35, Fort Worth drive, Country Club Road, 2499.

00:42:10.840 --> 00:42:13.840
I think there's one more tucked in there.

00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:17.659
And if there's anything wrong on any of those points you

00:42:17.659 --> 00:42:20.840
end up with an eight or ten mile detour around.

00:42:20.840 --> 00:42:25.769
And unfortunately I don't know what the cure is if you go

00:42:25.769 --> 00:42:28.840
just a little bit further east.

00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:32.099
Yeah so like in this area here and that's where you were

00:42:32.099 --> 00:42:35.840
drawing in the connection from 1830 over to Teasley.

00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:36.840
Yeah right further down here.

00:42:36.840 --> 00:42:39.159
Yeah well further east as well like the one on Fort Worth

00:42:39.159 --> 00:42:39.840
drive right now.

00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:40.840
Yeah exactly.

00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:45.449
So I think this is going to be one of the big challenges if

00:42:45.449 --> 00:42:45.840
.

00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:46.840
To right here.

00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:51.360
Yeah as Denton grows south that's going to cut off a third

00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:55.840
of our land mass from the rest of the city basically.

00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:57.889
And the routing you know whenever the design is done the

00:42:57.889 --> 00:42:59.840
routing these are already homes already here.

00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:00.840
Yeah.

00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:01.840
So you can't get in there.

00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:04.679
That's why it pushed it further back this way to tie in

00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:05.840
here in this area.

00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:08.469
And I definitely understand there are a ton of barriers

00:43:08.469 --> 00:43:10.840
between the railroad and the neighborhoods.

00:43:10.840 --> 00:43:14.760
We can put that connection in you know so we can leave it

00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:16.840
there in the mobility plan.

00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:20.349
And that will be part of the cash calculation in our impact

00:43:20.349 --> 00:43:20.840
fee.

00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:24.650
It will slightly affect it's going to be a small part of

00:43:24.650 --> 00:43:26.840
the total cost in that area.

00:43:26.840 --> 00:43:28.840
So I don't see that being a real issue.

00:43:28.840 --> 00:43:32.059
Well and I'm not necessarily advocating for putting a road

00:43:32.059 --> 00:43:33.840
in that we probably won't build.

00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:36.349
It's just that this is going to be an issue you know in the

00:43:36.349 --> 00:43:37.840
next 10, 20 years.

00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:40.840
And there aren't very many options because.

00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:42.949
It may be a placeholder right now if you put that in it may

00:43:42.949 --> 00:43:43.840
be a placeholder.

00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:47.920
And as people look at this a little bit more there may be

00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:49.840
better ideas come in.

00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:52.840
I have a question to kind of piggyback.

00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:56.920
Why can't you connect Hickory Creek over because obviously

00:43:56.920 --> 00:43:58.840
that's a much shorter connection.

00:43:58.840 --> 00:43:59.840
I'm sorry.

00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:03.840
Up above Hickory Creek and just continue going west.

00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:04.840
The Hickory Creek Road right here.

00:44:04.840 --> 00:44:06.840
Yes.

00:44:06.840 --> 00:44:10.840
This is the back and this used to run like this.

00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:14.519
We changed the alignment so it comes back this way to tie

00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:18.840
into country club road right here.

00:44:18.840 --> 00:44:21.840
If it goes straight there's not just a floodplain there.

00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:22.840
There's an actually.

00:44:22.840 --> 00:44:23.840
Yeah you can see right here actually you can see that.

00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:24.840
That's a creek.

00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:25.840
Yeah.

00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:26.840
It's all floodplain.

00:44:26.840 --> 00:44:27.840
You can't get straight over.

00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:28.840
It's all floodplain.

00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:29.840
In fact there was a development coming there.

00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:30.840
That's a bad intersection too right now.

00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:32.840
Because you're up at a 45 degree angle.

00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:34.840
Yeah lots of accidents there.

00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:37.099
So this is where we changed the alignment to get out of the

00:44:37.099 --> 00:44:37.840
floodplain area.

00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:40.840
So you can actually really build this road here.

00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:41.840
Because this is needed.

00:44:41.840 --> 00:44:47.829
You can see the traffic and the volumes right here on this

00:44:47.829 --> 00:44:48.840
road.

00:44:48.840 --> 00:44:51.800
And we're putting in developments north and south of that

00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:55.840
or mostly north of that up to Ryan Road.

00:44:55.840 --> 00:44:59.550
Yeah and there was a development that was coming in you

00:44:59.550 --> 00:45:04.130
know on along here and we were right here actually in this

00:45:04.130 --> 00:45:04.840
area.

00:45:04.840 --> 00:45:08.699
And we had as part of the DRC process exacted the right of

00:45:08.699 --> 00:45:12.840
way but it didn't go through the full planning process.

00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:13.840
It fell through.

00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:18.349
Otherwise that portion would have already been established

00:45:18.349 --> 00:45:19.840
the right of way.

00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:20.840
Commissioner Rossell.

00:45:20.840 --> 00:45:21.840
Thank you.

00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:25.480
You mentioned that if we put on the books this potential

00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:25.840
bridge.

00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:27.840
Connections right here.

00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:28.840
Right.

00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:31.840
You said that that would impact fees.

00:45:31.840 --> 00:45:39.059
Actually you know when we saw road impact fees as I

00:45:39.059 --> 00:45:41.840
mentioned before we have five service areas.

00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:44.840
It will be in one of the service areas this part.

00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:48.480
So then we have to add that cost of construction of that

00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:51.769
road to the pool of money for all the road projects to be

00:45:51.769 --> 00:45:53.840
done in that service area.

00:45:53.840 --> 00:45:56.760
But it could be it could hold a low priority even though it

00:45:56.760 --> 00:45:57.840
's on the books.

00:45:57.840 --> 00:46:01.150
Low priority but impact fees are calculated based on the

00:46:01.150 --> 00:46:03.840
total construction cost that we'll have.

00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:06.840
But over a 10 year window how much of that is needed.

00:46:06.840 --> 00:46:09.690
And we will go through that process when we come back for

00:46:09.690 --> 00:46:12.840
when you work as a capital improvement advisory committee.

00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:14.840
Which hopefully will be very soon.

00:46:14.840 --> 00:46:19.940
I'm hoping that this will get done here so we can get

00:46:19.940 --> 00:46:22.840
started on that process.

00:46:22.840 --> 00:46:23.840
Commissioner Bruegel.

00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:24.840
Thank you chair.

00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:27.690
Follow up with all of this so PS I heard you say that we

00:46:27.690 --> 00:46:29.840
maybe don't have to add this in now.

00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:32.750
We can maybe look at it in five years or 10 years and add

00:46:32.750 --> 00:46:33.840
it at that point.

00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:35.840
We can.

00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:38.440
And I agree with Commissioner Taylor there's no sense in

00:46:38.440 --> 00:46:41.000
adding this to the mobility plan if we're not planning on

00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:41.840
building it.

00:46:41.840 --> 00:46:45.840
But you know we all know Denton is growing very quickly.

00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:48.650
Are we going to be boxed into another more expensive option

00:46:48.650 --> 00:46:50.860
in five or 10 years because a lot of our growth is

00:46:50.860 --> 00:46:51.840
happening in the south.

00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:52.840
I mean is it better for us to just.

00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:54.840
And you're right about that.

00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:56.840
Just bite the bullet now and just go for it or.

00:46:56.840 --> 00:47:01.260
And you will see that the impact fees that we calculate are

00:47:01.260 --> 00:47:02.840
here need.

00:47:02.840 --> 00:47:07.289
What all the cities are adopting is here compared to what

00:47:07.289 --> 00:47:08.840
the real cost is.

00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:13.139
So even if the cost goes up it's not going to make much

00:47:13.139 --> 00:47:14.840
difference there.

00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:17.550
Well I'm just because I'm just concerned like well maybe we

00:47:17.550 --> 00:47:20.110
don't do it now because it is going to cost more but isn't

00:47:20.110 --> 00:47:22.840
it going to cost more in 10 years when we have to now.

00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:22.840
Yes.

00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:26.280
Come up with a bigger bridge and come up with you know buy

00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:27.840
more right away from.

00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:30.639
If we show it then at least it allows us to start getting

00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:32.840
right away as a development comes in.

00:47:32.840 --> 00:47:36.480
Then our D.R.C. engineers look at that say we have this

00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:37.840
road going through.

00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:40.659
We need to exact right away from this or we need to reserve

00:47:40.659 --> 00:47:41.840
right away from it.

00:47:41.840 --> 00:47:43.840
Thank you.

00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:44.840
Commissioner Roselle.

00:47:44.840 --> 00:47:45.840
Thank you.

00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:49.400
So I believe we're voting on this next meeting in the

00:47:49.400 --> 00:47:50.840
public hearing next.

00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:53.530
How do we provide you direction officially to put that in

00:47:53.530 --> 00:47:56.099
the mobility for us to vote when I bring it to the public

00:47:56.099 --> 00:47:56.840
hearing.

00:47:56.840 --> 00:47:57.840
I already showed that.

00:47:57.840 --> 00:47:57.840
OK.

00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:00.690
So you'll vote on what is actually we don't need to vote

00:48:00.690 --> 00:48:02.840
now for you to add that to the motion.

00:48:02.840 --> 00:48:04.840
But you're not.

00:48:04.840 --> 00:48:05.840
Yeah.

00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:06.840
How do we agree.

00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:09.860
You can give me direction that you want to add that word

00:48:09.860 --> 00:48:11.840
there and we will go down that.

00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:12.840
OK.

00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:16.050
So when you were during the public hearing process then you

00:48:16.050 --> 00:48:18.840
'll be voting on what is in front of you at that time.

00:48:18.840 --> 00:48:20.840
Could could we see.

00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:21.840
Grisham Bruegel.

00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:22.840
Pardon me.

00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:23.840
Thank you chair.

00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:28.840
Could we see maybe both options.

00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:31.159
Are we I mean I guess council is really the one that's

00:48:31.159 --> 00:48:33.340
going to be looking at the bottom line and the money of all

00:48:33.340 --> 00:48:33.840
of this.

00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:42.269
Yeah but council has already gone through the mobility plan

00:48:42.269 --> 00:48:42.840
and.

00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:46.840
What.

00:48:46.840 --> 00:48:48.840
Yeah OK.

00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:51.159
I think maybe I'd like to see it presented maybe both ways

00:48:51.159 --> 00:48:53.389
so we would have a couple of different options to choose

00:48:53.389 --> 00:48:53.840
from.

00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:54.840
Sure.

00:48:54.840 --> 00:48:55.840
At our public hearing next week.

00:48:55.840 --> 00:48:59.710
Would you like me to then in the same way and show this

00:48:59.710 --> 00:49:03.760
also to options on the Cooper Creek side so that you can

00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:06.840
vote on option A or option B.

00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:13.840
Where we come in if I can get to that and not so much.

00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:14.840
Right.

00:49:14.840 --> 00:49:16.840
Further back.

00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:19.920
Yeah I think that would be I think that would be helpful as

00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:23.030
we're making our as we're making our motions next week to

00:49:23.030 --> 00:49:23.840
say you know.

00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:26.659
I'm not sure that I'm sorry this recommend this with option

00:49:26.659 --> 00:49:29.190
this or option that and it would just I think it make it

00:49:29.190 --> 00:49:31.840
easier for the record as we're as we're voting.

00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:32.840
Thank you.

00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:36.539
So that way gives you the option to go to option two on the

00:49:36.539 --> 00:49:40.320
Cooper Creek Roadside and sort of the option one and then

00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:42.840
that way I take it to the council.

00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:46.480
That's what you voted on and same thing on the south

00:49:46.480 --> 00:49:50.139
connection the connection of the east and west on the south

00:49:50.139 --> 00:49:50.840
side.

00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:51.840
Commissioner Taylor.

00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:57.300
Thank you chair is just a career informal poll of the

00:49:57.300 --> 00:50:02.380
commission as far as this the south road to old Alton the

00:50:02.380 --> 00:50:03.840
old Alton connector if you will.

00:50:03.840 --> 00:50:06.650
Does everybody think that's a good idea or a bad idea to

00:50:06.650 --> 00:50:09.440
add just so we just so we have an idea like I'm like I said

00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:12.239
I'm not strongly for or against I just want to see what a

00:50:12.239 --> 00:50:13.840
reals thinks.

00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:16.840
You know.

00:50:16.840 --> 00:50:21.840
Commissioner back.

00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:24.840
But keep it in.

00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:28.550
You know we don't necessarily if we build it they will come

00:50:28.550 --> 00:50:32.010
you know we don't know if that's going to work but being

00:50:32.010 --> 00:50:35.650
there does in and we're suggesting that they are going to

00:50:35.650 --> 00:50:38.630
expand south here that just has to put in the door for

00:50:38.630 --> 00:50:40.840
Sarah I would be for just keeping it on.

00:50:40.840 --> 00:50:44.059
What it does for you for the city is if it is shown there,

00:50:44.059 --> 00:50:47.369
then during the development process if the development

00:50:47.369 --> 00:50:50.750
comes in, then over the RC engineers look at the mobility

00:50:50.750 --> 00:50:54.110
plan, and they see this road there and say hey, this road

00:50:54.110 --> 00:50:55.840
is going through.

00:50:55.840 --> 00:50:58.840
We need to reserve this much right away.

00:50:58.840 --> 00:51:02.820
And as part of the then as well then they'll exact the

00:51:02.820 --> 00:51:07.500
dollars for the impact fee. And those dollars that impact

00:51:07.500 --> 00:51:11.960
for dollars can be used to purchase that right away in that

00:51:11.960 --> 00:51:12.840
area.

00:51:12.840 --> 00:51:15.880
So that it does give some, you know some flexibility for

00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:16.840
the long term.

00:51:16.840 --> 00:51:18.840
Commissioner that's good.

00:51:18.840 --> 00:51:23.289
Thank you, Chair. Should we go back to that map again, the

00:51:23.289 --> 00:51:25.840
overview, please, sir.

00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:31.400
I'm just curious, with respect to the airport. Where's

00:51:31.400 --> 00:51:34.840
Peter bill target distribution so on so forth.

00:51:34.840 --> 00:51:36.840
Further back here.

00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:41.840
A little bit would be here target is right in this area.

00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:44.840
Fasten all is along here.

00:51:44.840 --> 00:51:46.840
For the south.

00:51:46.840 --> 00:51:48.840
Yeah, yeah.

00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:54.510
So, currently, the only way to get it and correct me where

00:51:54.510 --> 00:51:59.099
I'm wrong. There's that little bridge near victory

00:51:59.099 --> 00:52:01.840
equipment to get over 35 w.

00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:03.840
Is that. Are you following me.

00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:06.800
Let me allow this for you so we can see it a little better.

00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:09.840
You're correct. Little bitty. Yeah. Yeah.

00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:14.789
And so, is there, is there a plan in here to make a better

00:52:14.789 --> 00:52:19.329
way to get to 35 w or a better way, because I just

00:52:19.329 --> 00:52:23.840
anticipate that area growing substantially.

00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:26.840
There's access from 2499 from the south.

00:52:26.840 --> 00:52:32.139
They turn it to target and everything from target so if you

00:52:32.139 --> 00:52:32.840
had south.

00:52:32.840 --> 00:52:36.480
So if you're going into the airport and take a left right

00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:40.840
that first street that hits, it goes down and hits 2499.

00:52:40.840 --> 00:52:44.840
Sometimes it's closed because of crossing.

00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:50.840
Yeah, that happened in April when we had crazy.

00:52:50.840 --> 00:52:54.389
That's when I was there and I actually saw it. But you can

00:52:54.389 --> 00:52:57.239
see the, the, you see where the brown roads are down the

00:52:57.239 --> 00:52:59.840
bottom left that connects up to airport road.

00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:05.789
Okay, so there's 2499 or airport road would get you to the

00:53:05.789 --> 00:53:06.840
airport.

00:53:06.840 --> 00:53:10.840
Yes, but so that being said, I have a question.

00:53:10.840 --> 00:53:17.230
Can you think. Yeah, thank you. Do you think that is a good

00:53:17.230 --> 00:53:20.539
solution. So assuming that area grows assuming the airport

00:53:20.539 --> 00:53:23.969
grows, assuming more corporations go out there, assume the

00:53:23.969 --> 00:53:26.840
economic development is pushing more companies out there.

00:53:26.840 --> 00:53:29.860
Will that hold, because I'm trying to tell you when I drive

00:53:29.860 --> 00:53:33.230
to Peterville, and it's that one lane winding around, it's,

00:53:33.230 --> 00:53:36.840
it's, it seems miserable, and I'm not out there that often.

00:53:36.840 --> 00:53:40.659
And you have X amount of workers that are going that same

00:53:40.659 --> 00:53:44.269
route that same time of day. It's very predictable and they

00:53:44.269 --> 00:53:47.099
're all year, what two three shifts means you got a two Jill

00:53:47.099 --> 00:53:49.840
ian cars going down this road, all at the same time.

00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:51.840
That's when you see this connection right here.

00:53:51.840 --> 00:53:53.840
Okay, pause connection.

00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:56.840
This is not there right now.

00:53:56.840 --> 00:53:59.840
There's a new proposed connection that we put in there.

00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:03.150
That's where you can see the traffic over 13,000 vehicle

00:54:03.150 --> 00:54:04.840
trips in a built out condition.

00:54:04.840 --> 00:54:07.730
Right, the quarter already built, and it was done by peer

00:54:07.730 --> 00:54:09.840
less manufacturing when they came in.

00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:14.460
As part of that overall project, the quarter road, and then

00:54:14.460 --> 00:54:18.909
target came in. So, I'm trying to recall, did the whole

00:54:18.909 --> 00:54:23.840
section built or did we build the 25 foot on the quarter?

00:54:23.840 --> 00:54:25.840
The whole thing got built.

00:54:25.840 --> 00:54:31.369
Well, okay, so orient me though, because the road, the two

00:54:31.369 --> 00:54:36.599
lane road that goes to the airport and Peterbilt, where is

00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:39.840
that the two lane road out there.

00:54:39.840 --> 00:54:44.019
That's it. There is a project, you know, being put together

00:54:44.019 --> 00:54:47.059
on a little bit higher priority right now to fund

00:54:47.059 --> 00:54:48.840
construction of this road.

00:54:48.840 --> 00:54:55.409
Yes. To how many lanes? Because there is more traffic on it

00:54:55.409 --> 00:54:56.840
. There's a lot of new development that has come in.

00:54:56.840 --> 00:55:00.900
And it is especially during peak hours in the morning and

00:55:00.900 --> 00:55:01.840
evening.

00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:05.840
It is a issue. Yeah. Yes. But if I may.

00:55:05.840 --> 00:55:10.050
You bet. So I'm asking you to though help me understand,

00:55:10.050 --> 00:55:14.250
even if the road is wider, and you're feeding a two lane

00:55:14.250 --> 00:55:14.840
bridge.

00:55:14.840 --> 00:55:19.840
Which two lane bridge are you talking about? Over I-35W.

00:55:19.840 --> 00:55:24.840
I-35W. And that seems expensive to build a new bridge

00:55:24.840 --> 00:55:28.840
versus a better way to get to I-35.

00:55:28.840 --> 00:55:32.769
We have to see, you know, what the plans for I-35W are here

00:55:32.769 --> 00:55:33.840
in this area.

00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:36.280
Because Tech Start would have some plans, and city

00:55:36.280 --> 00:55:38.989
engineering department is going to coordinate the

00:55:38.989 --> 00:55:40.840
construction of this road with I-35W.

00:55:40.840 --> 00:55:46.840
Future. Okay. Also I have a few comments.

00:55:46.840 --> 00:55:48.829
Thank you, Commissioner Detowitz, who's next. Thank you.

00:55:48.829 --> 00:55:49.840
And I agree.

00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:53.699
What we're talking about is a north, or for these

00:55:53.699 --> 00:55:55.840
facilities to go south.

00:55:55.840 --> 00:55:59.019
The problem is we have people coming and living in debt and

00:55:59.019 --> 00:56:02.840
want to get to work and those trucks that want to go north.

00:56:02.840 --> 00:56:07.550
And it's a cluster right there. So yeah, we need to think

00:56:07.550 --> 00:56:11.510
about that north and east intersection and make it wide

00:56:11.510 --> 00:56:12.840
enough for people to get around.

00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:16.199
Because it's not very good. And Apogee Stadium is not too

00:56:16.199 --> 00:56:20.289
far away. And during game times and university events, it's

00:56:20.289 --> 00:56:22.840
quite congested there.

00:56:22.840 --> 00:56:25.409
So Tech Start does have, you know, I mean, right now I don

00:56:25.409 --> 00:56:27.840
't know where they are in terms of their planning.

00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:32.969
35E itself, you know, they have a lot of work done. This

00:56:32.969 --> 00:56:33.840
one is a little further down.

00:56:33.840 --> 00:56:37.840
But yes, it's one of the projects they got for expansion.

00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:40.380
Commissioner Taylor. Thank you, Chair. I'd also like to

00:56:40.380 --> 00:56:44.510
point out, can you scroll north just a short distance there

00:56:44.510 --> 00:56:44.840
?

00:56:44.840 --> 00:56:49.119
So, you know, Western Center, or Western Boulevard was

00:56:49.119 --> 00:56:51.840
built six years ago. Yeah.

00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:55.480
And this other north-south connector that comes right next

00:56:55.480 --> 00:56:58.840
to Peterbilt did not connect through five years ago.

00:56:58.840 --> 00:57:03.119
So Airport Road used to be the only way in and out. And so

00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:05.840
now there is a way for at least for northbound traffic.

00:57:05.840 --> 00:57:09.320
You can take Western Boulevard up to Jim Crystal or you can

00:57:09.320 --> 00:57:12.840
go all the way up to you will eventually go up to 380.

00:57:12.840 --> 00:57:17.030
So that's really show this connection here continuing. Yeah

00:57:17.030 --> 00:57:19.489
. And this area is much improved over what it was 10 years

00:57:19.489 --> 00:57:19.840
ago.

00:57:19.840 --> 00:57:23.170
10 years ago Airport Road was the only way in and out to,

00:57:23.170 --> 00:57:29.380
you know, Tetra Pak, Peterbilt, Fastenal, Victor, the wareh

00:57:29.380 --> 00:57:31.840
ousing across from Victor.

00:57:31.840 --> 00:57:34.969
You know, so now there are already three or four other kind

00:57:34.969 --> 00:57:38.039
of outlets. And it used to be when I worked at Peterbilt,

00:57:38.039 --> 00:57:40.840
95% of the traffic went east.

00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:43.730
And now it's almost a 50/50 split because people have found

00:57:43.730 --> 00:57:45.840
they can find a different way to 380.

00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:50.099
They can find a different way to Jim Crystal. So it is

00:57:50.099 --> 00:57:54.070
better than it was. And I think it's getting better all the

00:57:54.070 --> 00:57:54.840
time.

00:57:54.840 --> 00:57:55.840
Commissioner Hatchbeth.

00:57:55.840 --> 00:58:00.050
Yeah. So I have a question for Mr. Taylor. Having walked

00:58:00.050 --> 00:58:06.389
the walk, do you find this sufficient to meet growing needs

00:58:06.389 --> 00:58:06.840
?

00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:10.230
And again, and I think so we're looking at five-year block,

00:58:10.230 --> 00:58:10.840
right?

00:58:10.840 --> 00:58:13.360
So I'm hoping again that we get new businesses and we're

00:58:13.360 --> 00:58:16.539
saying, hey, here's Target, here's Tetra Pak, here's this

00:58:16.539 --> 00:58:20.840
area where you can come and bring your company and your

00:58:20.840 --> 00:58:21.840
whatever.

00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:26.210
Do you think it meets? Well, I think Airport Road would

00:58:26.210 --> 00:58:27.840
have to improve.

00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:29.960
And I believe it's planned as a, because it's got like 35,

00:58:29.960 --> 00:58:32.369
000 trips a day. I believe it's planned as a primary, which

00:58:32.369 --> 00:58:34.840
would be a six-lane road.

00:58:34.840 --> 00:58:39.400
That'll be an expensive bridge to build, but that is the

00:58:39.400 --> 00:58:41.840
major way to get to I-35E.

00:58:41.840 --> 00:58:45.480
And with improvements to Jim Crystal, which is currently a

00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:48.840
little two-lane road and scheduled to be a primary arterial

00:58:48.840 --> 00:58:54.059
, and the connection south whenever Cole Ranch goes in, it

00:58:54.059 --> 00:58:55.840
won't be perfect.

00:58:55.840 --> 00:58:58.659
And I'm sure, especially whenever you have 2,000 people get

00:58:58.659 --> 00:59:00.690
off work at exactly the same moment and all get in the

00:59:00.690 --> 00:59:01.840
parking lot and leave.

00:59:01.840 --> 00:59:07.110
There's always going to be momentary traffic jams. But even

00:59:07.110 --> 00:59:10.329
when it was a two-lane road and only one way out, it'd take

00:59:10.329 --> 00:59:15.059
you 15 minutes to get out, which was very painful if you

00:59:15.059 --> 00:59:16.840
don't work out there and you happen to get stuck in it.

00:59:16.840 --> 00:59:19.809
But it's just kind of the way of life if you work at those

00:59:19.809 --> 00:59:20.840
facilities.

00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:23.429
But I think if you have three six-lane roads going

00:59:23.429 --> 00:59:26.570
different directions out of there, it's going to be vastly

00:59:26.570 --> 00:59:27.840
better than it was.

00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:31.840
Okay. Commissioner Bruegel.

00:59:31.840 --> 00:59:36.590
Thank you, Chair. And I wonder, too, Commissioner Hunsworth

00:59:36.590 --> 00:59:39.289
, if we, how much business Denton might be losing out on

00:59:39.289 --> 00:59:40.840
because that road is so small.

00:59:40.840 --> 00:59:43.480
And as we expand this, I mean, going to your point of

00:59:43.480 --> 00:59:46.269
bringing in more business, I think sometimes if you do

00:59:46.269 --> 00:59:47.840
build it, they will come.

00:59:47.840 --> 00:59:51.150
So I think to be looking at this and looking forward to the

00:59:51.150 --> 00:59:54.570
future and what's the future of the industrial park and how

00:59:54.570 --> 00:59:57.840
the mobility plan might kind of play a role in that.

00:59:57.840 --> 01:00:00.840
So just my two cents.

01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:01.840
Thank you.

01:00:01.840 --> 01:00:03.840
So there is being attention paid to this area right now.

01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:08.280
Plus this road is being expanded as part of the turge that

01:00:08.280 --> 01:00:09.840
was put in there.

01:00:09.840 --> 01:00:14.989
And then this will be a city project here for the airport

01:00:14.989 --> 01:00:15.840
road.

01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:18.699
Just for my clarification to follow on, I've got seven

01:00:18.699 --> 01:00:21.840
items on here on our agenda that we're working through.

01:00:21.840 --> 01:00:25.150
And I'm an hour down. So can you update me where we are on

01:00:25.150 --> 01:00:25.840
those seven?

01:00:25.840 --> 01:00:29.889
Okay. I'm trying to remember what I got left right now to

01:00:29.889 --> 01:00:30.840
go through.

01:00:30.840 --> 01:00:34.840
Let me see here.

01:00:34.840 --> 01:00:38.840
It seems to me we kind of got started on about item five on

01:00:38.840 --> 01:00:39.840
the post oak.

01:00:39.840 --> 01:00:45.840
I went through, okay, let me see if this comes up here.

01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:47.840
How our dedication is established.

01:00:47.840 --> 01:00:49.840
So we've gone through that.

01:00:49.840 --> 01:00:50.840
Road classification.

01:00:50.840 --> 01:00:52.840
I went through those cross sections.

01:00:52.840 --> 01:00:54.840
We went to the post oak.

01:00:54.840 --> 01:00:58.250
Arterial parallel to Hickory Creek on the north and south

01:00:58.250 --> 01:00:58.840
side.

01:00:58.840 --> 01:01:02.639
Map of mobility plan with major barriers, which I had given

01:01:02.639 --> 01:01:03.840
you with all the barriers.

01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:08.840
And then we have a map with the flum overlaid.

01:01:08.840 --> 01:01:13.840
So that map is in your packet that shows how we came about.

01:01:13.840 --> 01:01:18.840
And I can pull that up for you.

01:01:18.840 --> 01:01:26.840
Right here is the map.

01:01:26.840 --> 01:01:30.679
I don't necessarily want to go through this unless you had

01:01:30.679 --> 01:01:31.840
any question.

01:01:31.840 --> 01:01:38.940
We have our engineer from Kimney-Horn, Janelle Hanson, who

01:01:38.940 --> 01:01:39.840
actually did the computer model,

01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:41.840
TransCAD model for this.

01:01:41.840 --> 01:01:44.340
So if there are any questions, we'll be happy to answer

01:01:44.340 --> 01:01:44.840
those.

01:01:44.840 --> 01:01:49.500
But all of the traffic generation is based on the land use

01:01:49.500 --> 01:01:51.840
plan that was done by WRT.

01:01:51.840 --> 01:01:54.840
And of course it was fleshed out a lot more.

01:01:54.840 --> 01:01:59.289
Looking at the DCAD data as well as what is currently out

01:01:59.289 --> 01:01:59.840
there

01:01:59.840 --> 01:02:02.840
that could possibly get built in those areas.

01:02:02.840 --> 01:02:05.900
And then come out with the traffic generation for the

01:02:05.900 --> 01:02:06.840
entire area.

01:02:06.840 --> 01:02:12.119
And that's what the traffic numbers you see in the last

01:02:12.119 --> 01:02:14.840
slide I was showing you.

01:02:14.840 --> 01:02:18.840
Okay, so here are the seven items that I've got.

01:02:18.840 --> 01:02:21.840
I've got the mobility plan presentation.

01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:25.840
And I've got mobility plan additions, MPCs and new.

01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:29.840
I've got mobility plan classification changes.

01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:31.840
Have we done all those?

01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:35.840
Those are all exhibits that I had given you.

01:02:35.840 --> 01:02:40.840
These are the additions, which I already went through.

01:02:40.840 --> 01:02:42.840
This is the MPCs and new.

01:02:42.840 --> 01:02:43.840
I've already shown you that.

01:02:43.840 --> 01:02:46.949
And the purpose of showing that was the connectivity, the

01:02:46.949 --> 01:02:48.840
north-south connectivity in those.

01:02:48.840 --> 01:02:51.840
So that was the main intent of bringing that in.

01:02:51.840 --> 01:02:55.480
Classification changes is something that I had shown you

01:02:55.480 --> 01:02:55.840
before.

01:02:55.840 --> 01:02:58.840
And this was just something in there for you to have.

01:02:58.840 --> 01:03:03.840
This is the one where based on the actual traffic counts

01:03:03.840 --> 01:03:06.840
that were determined for the fully developed condition,

01:03:06.840 --> 01:03:09.840
some roads, if they were a secondary arterial,

01:03:09.840 --> 01:03:12.800
we found that it crossed the threshold in terms of the

01:03:12.800 --> 01:03:16.840
amount of traffic to be classified as a primary arterial.

01:03:16.840 --> 01:03:18.840
So that got changed to a primary arterial.

01:03:18.840 --> 01:03:21.840
Vice versa, if the traffic was not enough,

01:03:21.840 --> 01:03:24.489
when it was a primary arterial, it got changed down to a

01:03:24.489 --> 01:03:26.840
secondary or secondary down to a collector.

01:03:26.840 --> 01:03:31.840
So these are the ones that show that change.

01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:35.840
There are not that many, but they are there.

01:03:35.840 --> 01:03:38.429
So like you can see Robson Ranch Road, there's plenty of

01:03:38.429 --> 01:03:38.840
traffic.

01:03:38.840 --> 01:03:43.789
So from a secondary arterial, it changed to -- I'm sorry,

01:03:43.789 --> 01:03:46.840
it changed from a primary -- so there's less traffic --

01:03:46.840 --> 01:03:48.840
primary down to a secondary.

01:03:48.840 --> 01:03:50.840
Red would be the primary arterial.

01:03:50.840 --> 01:03:54.559
The green around that means it has changed into a secondary

01:03:54.559 --> 01:03:54.840
.

01:03:54.840 --> 01:03:58.050
And this one was a collector, and it changed to a secondary

01:03:58.050 --> 01:03:58.840
arterial here.

01:03:58.840 --> 01:04:00.840
This is John Payne Road.

01:04:00.840 --> 01:04:02.840
There's a lot of traffic on it.

01:04:02.840 --> 01:04:06.840
So it changed to a secondary arterial.

01:04:06.840 --> 01:04:11.840
And then this changed -- as you can see, this road changed

01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:14.840
to a primary from this point on,

01:04:14.840 --> 01:04:25.840
because there's a lot of traffic on this one.

01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:29.570
So the road that we've just spent the last few minutes

01:04:29.570 --> 01:04:30.840
talking about,

01:04:30.840 --> 01:04:37.840
Airport Road, is going from a primary to a secondary.

01:04:37.840 --> 01:04:41.670
Let me go back and look at the mobility plan and see what

01:04:41.670 --> 01:04:42.840
we have there.

01:04:42.840 --> 01:04:51.840
[ Inaudible ]

01:04:51.840 --> 01:04:56.840
Thank you for the clarification.

01:04:56.840 --> 01:04:58.840
Okay, right here.

01:04:58.840 --> 01:05:03.750
I'll enlarge that for you so you can see it a little bit

01:05:03.750 --> 01:05:04.840
better.

01:05:04.840 --> 01:05:07.840
Here is the Airport Road right here.

01:05:07.840 --> 01:05:12.840
25,000 to 40,000 trips projected in 2035.

01:05:12.840 --> 01:05:21.840
And so it is upgraded to a primary arterial.

01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:25.840
The connection to I-35W goes on to 35.

01:05:25.840 --> 01:05:33.840
So with that context, that's the classification for it.

01:05:33.840 --> 01:05:34.840
Commissioner Beck.

01:05:34.840 --> 01:05:35.840
Okay.

01:05:35.840 --> 01:05:36.840
Got a little confused there.

01:05:36.840 --> 01:05:39.840
I believe it's a primary road now.

01:05:39.840 --> 01:05:40.840
It's a two-lane road now.

01:05:40.840 --> 01:05:44.840
And we're going to up it to a secondary arterial.

01:05:44.840 --> 01:05:45.840
A primary arterial.

01:05:45.840 --> 01:05:47.840
That's six lanes.

01:05:47.840 --> 01:05:48.840
Yes, sir.

01:05:48.840 --> 01:05:52.409
But we have to see what the city really wants to do and how

01:05:52.409 --> 01:05:53.840
much money they have.

01:05:53.840 --> 01:05:56.840
So that -- it does make a difference.

01:05:56.840 --> 01:05:59.840
So some of those things come into play.

01:05:59.840 --> 01:06:04.239
The intent is to get the money as much as we can from the

01:06:04.239 --> 01:06:06.840
state to build our project.

01:06:06.840 --> 01:06:07.840
Okay.

01:06:07.840 --> 01:06:08.840
Thank you.

01:06:08.840 --> 01:06:09.840
Commissioner Hussba.

01:06:09.840 --> 01:06:10.840
I'm sorry.

01:06:10.840 --> 01:06:16.840
Is there a way -- I mean, because this highlights to me --

01:06:16.840 --> 01:06:18.840
I know there's other ways to go,

01:06:18.840 --> 01:06:24.440
but this highlights to me that just seems like a bad plan

01:06:24.440 --> 01:06:27.840
to run people over I-35W.

01:06:27.840 --> 01:06:31.889
And then you're -- so now you're causing congestion at

01:06:31.889 --> 01:06:34.840
Bonnie Bray and I-35E so that they can

01:06:34.840 --> 01:06:38.840
loop back around to get on W.

01:06:38.840 --> 01:06:43.840
And so if you have 25 to 40,000 people, round numbers,

01:06:43.840 --> 01:06:46.840
going that route, that seems a bit

01:06:46.840 --> 01:06:49.840
cumbersome versus --

01:06:49.840 --> 01:06:51.840
I mean, that's the total number of trips.

01:06:51.840 --> 01:06:53.840
That's not the number of people.

01:06:53.840 --> 01:06:56.570
Because those people will go and come back and then that's

01:06:56.570 --> 01:06:57.840
the total number of trips there.

01:06:57.840 --> 01:06:58.840
Thank you.

01:06:58.840 --> 01:07:02.840
But is that the best route, I guess is my question to you.

01:07:02.840 --> 01:07:07.389
Is there an option B that would prevent sending those

01:07:07.389 --> 01:07:09.840
number of trips that way?

01:07:09.840 --> 01:07:10.840
Yes.

01:07:10.840 --> 01:07:16.369
This area -- this is now right now -- Janelle, would you

01:07:16.369 --> 01:07:19.840
have a number there to show in this area what

01:07:19.840 --> 01:07:23.840
we're doing with Traffic Wise on Bonnie Bray here?

01:07:23.840 --> 01:07:29.840
Or I can probably pull that from this map here.

01:07:29.840 --> 01:07:30.840
Quick.

01:07:30.840 --> 01:07:31.840
Yeah.

01:07:31.840 --> 01:07:34.840
Let's answer this question and I'll come back to you.

01:07:34.840 --> 01:07:36.840
It's relative, I'm sorry.

01:07:36.840 --> 01:07:37.840
Okay.

01:07:37.840 --> 01:07:38.840
Roughly 25,000.

01:07:38.840 --> 01:07:41.949
Yeah, you can see going north, south here there's not that

01:07:41.949 --> 01:07:44.840
much traffic, 9,700.

01:07:44.840 --> 01:07:48.480
But as you come and this traffic joins in, then this road

01:07:48.480 --> 01:07:53.840
will have the capacity to handle that traffic over there.

01:07:53.840 --> 01:07:56.840
Commissioner Donowitz.

01:07:56.840 --> 01:08:01.230
I understand these traffic count numbers are based upon a

01:08:01.230 --> 01:08:02.840
what time period?

01:08:02.840 --> 01:08:04.840
Eight hour day, 12 hour day?

01:08:04.840 --> 01:08:05.840
24 hours.

01:08:05.840 --> 01:08:06.840
24 hours.

01:08:06.840 --> 01:08:10.949
But if 50% of it happens within two hours, how do we count

01:08:10.949 --> 01:08:11.840
for that?

01:08:11.840 --> 01:08:19.609
Traffic to and from work, traffic in a condensed part of

01:08:19.609 --> 01:08:21.840
town at a condensed time.

01:08:21.840 --> 01:08:24.840
That really impacts the mobility, if you will.

01:08:24.840 --> 01:08:28.720
So we have these models that give us 24 hours, but you know

01:08:28.720 --> 01:08:31.840
, two cars in the midnight and we get 400,000 in the

01:08:31.840 --> 01:08:31.840
afternoon.

01:08:31.840 --> 01:08:32.840
I don't know.

01:08:32.840 --> 01:08:37.840
There are ways to calculate the peak hour traffic.

01:08:37.840 --> 01:08:42.050
So the ratios that are used to design these things, that's

01:08:42.050 --> 01:08:45.909
the time they start looking at these a little bit more in

01:08:45.909 --> 01:08:46.840
detail.

01:08:46.840 --> 01:08:49.840
So it's in a computer model?

01:08:49.840 --> 01:08:51.840
Thank you.

01:08:51.840 --> 01:08:52.840
Commissioner Rozelle.

01:08:52.840 --> 01:08:56.489
I just want to speak to Commissioner Hutsmith's point or

01:08:56.489 --> 01:08:57.840
clarification.

01:08:57.840 --> 01:09:01.029
To Commissioner Taylor's point, you can go up to Jim

01:09:01.029 --> 01:09:04.720
Crystal and then head south on I-35 right there from the

01:09:04.720 --> 01:09:05.840
Oak entrance.

01:09:05.840 --> 01:09:06.840
Right here.

01:09:06.840 --> 01:09:11.109
Before you actually cross I-35W, you can take a left up

01:09:11.109 --> 01:09:15.630
near the, I believe it's a Budweiser Distributive, and you

01:09:15.630 --> 01:09:17.840
can take a left and then get on I-35W.

01:09:17.840 --> 01:09:20.800
You don't have to cross over to hit Bonnie Bray and then

01:09:20.800 --> 01:09:21.840
loop around.

01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:24.840
That's not the only way to get to I-35W.

01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:27.840
There's two other options.

01:09:27.840 --> 01:09:32.220
You can use this road or, like you said, you can come back

01:09:32.220 --> 01:09:35.840
here and come down 35W off of that area.

01:09:35.840 --> 01:09:39.840
But this is the traffic that's coming through the airport.

01:09:39.840 --> 01:09:45.840
And we've got to bring that out here someplace.

01:09:45.840 --> 01:09:50.279
When we, when this, you know, like I said, when the design

01:09:50.279 --> 01:09:52.619
is actually done, the engineers will be looking at the

01:09:52.619 --> 01:09:56.840
traffic that we are generating based on the computer model.

01:09:56.840 --> 01:10:01.140
Work with Tech Start and then see what is the best

01:10:01.140 --> 01:10:05.840
configuration that we can achieve at that time.

01:10:05.840 --> 01:10:06.840
Commissioner Hitchbeth.

01:10:06.840 --> 01:10:07.840
Yes sir.

01:10:07.840 --> 01:10:09.840
No, I understand.

01:10:09.840 --> 01:10:13.840
I was just curious if there's a plan B.

01:10:13.840 --> 01:10:17.869
And just like Commissioner Rossell points out that route is

01:10:17.869 --> 01:10:18.840
a good one.

01:10:18.840 --> 01:10:24.840
I just want to see, kind of to your point.

01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:27.840
I don't go on loop 288 because it's backed up.

01:10:27.840 --> 01:10:29.840
And so I've learned to go a different way.

01:10:29.840 --> 01:10:33.390
So in this instance, I'd love to do something more in our

01:10:33.390 --> 01:10:33.840
control.

01:10:33.840 --> 01:10:36.609
I'm not crazy about waiting for Tech Start to get all the

01:10:36.609 --> 01:10:38.840
way up to Denton from the construction.

01:10:38.840 --> 01:10:41.840
So I'd love to see something to motivate people.

01:10:41.840 --> 01:10:44.819
And again, we're talking new development, new coal ranch,

01:10:44.819 --> 01:10:45.840
new companies.

01:10:45.840 --> 01:10:48.729
And I don't know that they're going to know, they'll learn

01:10:48.729 --> 01:10:49.840
the other routes.

01:10:49.840 --> 01:10:50.840
But I'd like to.

01:10:50.840 --> 01:10:54.539
People who are not going north, they have the option to

01:10:54.539 --> 01:10:55.840
come down here.

01:10:55.840 --> 01:10:56.840
They have the option to come down here.

01:10:56.840 --> 01:10:59.960
They have the option to come down Dakota, get on this road

01:10:59.960 --> 01:11:01.840
and get on 35W right here.

01:11:01.840 --> 01:11:02.840
Excellent.

01:11:02.840 --> 01:11:06.840
So there are multiple ways to get here off of this road.

01:11:06.840 --> 01:11:07.840
Sure.

01:11:07.840 --> 01:11:11.390
And I guess my only point to that is 9,000 is a lot less

01:11:11.390 --> 01:11:12.840
than 24,000.

01:11:12.840 --> 01:11:18.539
So what can we do as a city, as a board, to motivate 10,000

01:11:18.539 --> 01:11:20.840
people to take Dakota Road?

01:11:20.840 --> 01:11:23.840
Because no one's taking Dakota right now.

01:11:23.840 --> 01:11:24.840
And so that's my point.

01:11:24.840 --> 01:11:25.840
Over time, it will change.

01:11:25.840 --> 01:11:28.840
Because this road is not constructed right now all the way.

01:11:28.840 --> 01:11:31.840
You know, what's the name of this road?

01:11:31.840 --> 01:11:32.840
Oh, I'm forgetting.

01:11:32.840 --> 01:11:36.840
This road right here is only built part of the way.

01:11:36.840 --> 01:11:37.840
You know, it doesn't go right.

01:11:37.840 --> 01:11:39.840
When it goes all the way, it's all connected.

01:11:39.840 --> 01:11:42.840
Then you will start to see more traffic on that road.

01:11:42.840 --> 01:11:46.060
Right now it is only used by one developer right here, Mr.

01:11:46.060 --> 01:11:46.840
Marriott.

01:11:46.840 --> 01:11:47.840
Corbin.

01:11:47.840 --> 01:11:50.840
And then the folks right here.

01:11:50.840 --> 01:11:51.840
Metro.

01:11:51.840 --> 01:11:52.840
Metro.

01:11:52.840 --> 01:11:53.840
Right here.

01:11:53.840 --> 01:11:56.310
So once that is all connected here, you will see a lot more

01:11:56.310 --> 01:11:57.840
traffic diversion right here.

01:11:57.840 --> 01:11:58.840
Okay.

01:11:58.840 --> 01:11:59.840
Yeah.

01:11:59.840 --> 01:12:00.840
Okay.

01:12:00.840 --> 01:12:08.840
Do we have any other items on the list?

01:12:08.840 --> 01:12:13.180
Well, the other items that were on the list were the real

01:12:13.180 --> 01:12:15.840
ignments, update realignments.

01:12:15.840 --> 01:12:18.840
We may have covered that already.

01:12:18.840 --> 01:12:19.840
Uh-huh.

01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:20.840
The flume overlay.

01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:21.840
We did that.

01:12:21.840 --> 01:12:23.840
We showed you that.

01:12:23.840 --> 01:12:24.840
Okay.

01:12:24.840 --> 01:12:27.840
And then the mobility plan changes descriptions.

01:12:27.840 --> 01:12:28.840
Right.

01:12:28.840 --> 01:12:35.229
And, you know, that is one of the files in your -- let me

01:12:35.229 --> 01:12:37.840
see here if I can pull that.

01:12:37.840 --> 01:12:40.840
Lots of things open right here.

01:12:40.840 --> 01:12:43.840
Right here.

01:12:43.840 --> 01:12:45.840
So you have this in your backup.

01:12:45.840 --> 01:12:50.090
This is basically a table that shows you what I showed you

01:12:50.090 --> 01:12:51.840
on the maps already.

01:12:51.840 --> 01:12:56.840
These are the proposed upgrades and downgrades right here.

01:12:56.840 --> 01:12:58.840
That you see upgrades right here.

01:12:58.840 --> 01:12:59.840
Downgrades right here.

01:12:59.840 --> 01:13:01.840
So that is one number of streets.

01:13:01.840 --> 01:13:03.840
And then realignments.

01:13:03.840 --> 01:13:09.300
Some of the roads were aligned better based on actual

01:13:09.300 --> 01:13:14.439
evaluation of the areas and driving out there to see, you

01:13:14.439 --> 01:13:16.840
know, where the best alignment would be for the roads.

01:13:16.840 --> 01:13:20.060
So what they were shown before in the mobility plan, they

01:13:20.060 --> 01:13:22.840
got changed a little bit to better align them.

01:13:22.840 --> 01:13:30.329
But there is no classification change in those realignments

01:13:30.329 --> 01:13:30.840
.

01:13:30.840 --> 01:13:33.840
Okay. Well, those are the seven items that I have.

01:13:33.840 --> 01:13:37.720
So I'm going to pretty much open it up now for just general

01:13:37.720 --> 01:13:38.840
questions.

01:13:38.840 --> 01:13:39.840
Commissioner Taylor.

01:13:39.840 --> 01:13:40.840
Thank you, Chair.

01:13:40.840 --> 01:13:45.930
In our meeting, we'd asked for most of these items up here,

01:13:45.930 --> 01:13:51.840
like the post oak realignment, looking at Hickory Creek.

01:13:51.840 --> 01:13:54.739
There would actually have been a couple of questions from

01:13:54.739 --> 01:13:57.840
the public regarding congestion points around schools.

01:13:57.840 --> 01:14:00.619
I figured there isn't much we can do, but I was hoping we

01:14:00.619 --> 01:14:02.840
could kind of just look at the Pecan Creek.

01:14:02.840 --> 01:14:05.800
I have to work with the engineering department on that

01:14:05.800 --> 01:14:08.840
because that is more of a localized issue rather than a

01:14:08.840 --> 01:14:10.840
mobility plan issue right now.

01:14:10.840 --> 01:14:14.250
I know that on Fisher Road, that's one of the issues they

01:14:14.250 --> 01:14:14.840
have.

01:14:14.840 --> 01:14:19.810
We've been dealing with it ever since we started, you know,

01:14:19.810 --> 01:14:22.840
going in the annexation process.

01:14:22.840 --> 01:14:26.199
And I happened to be in the committee from the city that

01:14:26.199 --> 01:14:29.840
sat with the three people in the city committee dealing

01:14:29.840 --> 01:14:30.840
with the annexation,

01:14:30.840 --> 01:14:34.680
with all the different people who were appointed for each

01:14:34.680 --> 01:14:36.840
area that was being annexed.

01:14:36.840 --> 01:14:38.840
This was one of the items they brought at that time.

01:14:38.840 --> 01:14:40.840
So I'm pretty familiar with it.

01:14:40.840 --> 01:14:43.859
There is some work being done, you know, in terms of trying

01:14:43.859 --> 01:14:48.199
to create some trails that people, you know, kids can walk

01:14:48.199 --> 01:14:51.840
on and get there a little easier.

01:14:51.840 --> 01:14:54.329
Some of the roads that got built in that area already were

01:14:54.329 --> 01:14:57.800
with the Preserve Development, so that is creating better

01:14:57.800 --> 01:14:59.840
access in and out of there.

01:14:59.840 --> 01:15:01.840
So that got done.

01:15:01.840 --> 01:15:05.550
There were some issues they had about signage or no parking

01:15:05.550 --> 01:15:05.840
.

01:15:05.840 --> 01:15:09.250
So we went out and we did already all of those were already

01:15:09.250 --> 01:15:09.840
done.

01:15:09.840 --> 01:15:13.279
This is one of the lingering issues, you know, which is no

01:15:13.279 --> 01:15:14.840
easy solution to that.

01:15:14.840 --> 01:15:20.840
But it's not really a mobility plan issue.

01:15:20.840 --> 01:15:21.840
Thank you.

01:15:21.840 --> 01:15:22.840
Thank you.

01:15:22.840 --> 01:15:25.699
Yes, you mentioned that the road impact fees are split into

01:15:25.699 --> 01:15:27.840
five subsections of the city of Denton.

01:15:27.840 --> 01:15:30.840
Where could I find a map of those subsections?

01:15:30.840 --> 01:15:32.840
I will bring it to you in my presentation.

01:15:32.840 --> 01:15:33.840
Okay.

01:15:33.840 --> 01:15:36.720
Now you are by city ordinance appointed as the Capital

01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:41.180
Improvement Advisory Committee, CIEC, which is required by

01:15:41.180 --> 01:15:41.840
state law.

01:15:41.840 --> 01:15:45.899
And all of the impact fee presentations you will hear will

01:15:45.899 --> 01:15:49.609
be as a body, CIEC body, not as a planning and zoning

01:15:49.609 --> 01:15:50.840
commission.

01:15:50.840 --> 01:15:53.739
So there will be separate meetings and separate postings of

01:15:53.739 --> 01:15:54.840
agendas for that.

01:15:54.840 --> 01:15:57.840
And I will go through all those presentations at that time.

01:15:57.840 --> 01:15:58.840
Thank you.

01:15:58.840 --> 01:16:06.840
Yes, sir.

01:16:06.840 --> 01:16:08.840
My turn.

01:16:08.840 --> 01:16:13.170
I had a couple of just kind of general questions,

01:16:13.170 --> 01:16:14.840
observations.

01:16:14.840 --> 01:16:18.229
What's the issue that the city of Denton seems to struggle

01:16:18.229 --> 01:16:22.189
with on the funding of so many of these roads when, for

01:16:22.189 --> 01:16:22.840
example,

01:16:22.840 --> 01:16:26.229
I had the opportunity to travel and some other business

01:16:26.229 --> 01:16:30.840
dealings to Little Elm, Frisco, and there's great mobility

01:16:30.840 --> 01:16:30.840
over there.

01:16:30.840 --> 01:16:36.590
Four or six lane concrete roads built out to basically

01:16:36.590 --> 01:16:38.840
vacant property.

01:16:38.840 --> 01:16:42.840
How are they able to fund things like that?

01:16:42.840 --> 01:16:46.840
And we have such a difficult time, to be honest,

01:16:46.840 --> 01:16:51.090
maintaining what we have, much less providing any kind of

01:16:51.090 --> 01:16:52.840
future mobility,

01:16:52.840 --> 01:16:55.899
taking it from a map to actually the road is built and

01:16:55.899 --> 01:16:58.840
people can come out and build the next phase.

01:16:58.840 --> 01:17:04.090
It's much easier to build these roads when the hills of

01:17:04.090 --> 01:17:08.840
Denton or any of those entities come in.

01:17:08.840 --> 01:17:10.840
And these larger roads have to be built at that time.

01:17:10.840 --> 01:17:12.840
You can have the right of way.

01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:13.840
You can.

01:17:13.840 --> 01:17:17.869
But in the city of Denton in general, all of the primary or

01:17:17.869 --> 01:17:20.840
secondary arterioles are really owned by Techstart.

01:17:20.840 --> 01:17:26.470
The city owns very few primary or secondary arterioles at

01:17:26.470 --> 01:17:27.840
this time.

01:17:27.840 --> 01:17:29.840
There's hardly any.

01:17:29.840 --> 01:17:34.670
If you look at the roadmap there, all of the major roads

01:17:34.670 --> 01:17:36.840
are Techstart roads.

01:17:36.840 --> 01:17:44.840
So for whatever reason, back when, it was not done.

01:17:44.840 --> 01:17:47.470
So nowadays it's a lot harder to do it, to get the right of

01:17:47.470 --> 01:17:49.840
way, to ex-Kerrell Boulevard and all.

01:17:49.840 --> 01:17:53.479
Kerrell Boulevard is about the only major road out there,

01:17:53.479 --> 01:17:54.840
right, which is a city-owned road.

01:17:54.840 --> 01:17:58.840
Beside that, there are two new ones that are being built,

01:17:58.840 --> 01:18:00.840
which is the Mayhill and, or will be built,

01:18:00.840 --> 01:18:03.840
they're under design, Mayhill and Monibray.

01:18:03.840 --> 01:18:08.449
Now in the bond funding that happened in the bond election

01:18:08.449 --> 01:18:11.840
last year in 2014, November election,

01:18:11.840 --> 01:18:14.840
there was money put in for road expansions.

01:18:14.840 --> 01:18:18.840
There is, and I may be wrong, but there is over 35 million,

01:18:18.840 --> 01:18:22.840
around $35 million for capacity expansion projects.

01:18:22.840 --> 01:18:24.840
So it is starting to happen.

01:18:24.840 --> 01:18:26.840
May I please jump in here too, if I could?

01:18:26.840 --> 01:18:28.840
Sure, Commissioner Buergele.

01:18:28.840 --> 01:18:34.119
So to go along, looking, another reason I think why our

01:18:34.119 --> 01:18:37.109
streets are not in as great of shape as some of the

01:18:37.109 --> 01:18:37.840
surrounding communities,

01:18:37.840 --> 01:18:42.529
is as I understand it, a portion of our sales tax that we

01:18:42.529 --> 01:18:45.840
collect as a city goes to fund DCTA.

01:18:45.840 --> 01:18:47.840
I was going there next.

01:18:47.840 --> 01:18:52.340
Right, okay, good, and so we can't raise our sales tax as

01:18:52.340 --> 01:18:53.840
per state laws.

01:18:53.840 --> 01:18:57.710
So we're kind of, whereas other cities have a portion of

01:18:57.710 --> 01:19:00.840
their sales tax going to fund the streets,

01:19:00.840 --> 01:19:02.520
which is why I believe we're starting to look at road

01:19:02.520 --> 01:19:05.060
impact fees, trying to find other sources of funding to

01:19:05.060 --> 01:19:06.840
improve our streets.

01:19:06.840 --> 01:19:09.840
But cool, so we're on the same page with this.

01:19:09.840 --> 01:19:10.840
But there was-

01:19:10.840 --> 01:19:12.840
Yeah, that was in the 80s.

01:19:12.840 --> 01:19:14.840
That decision was made.

01:19:14.840 --> 01:19:16.840
But we're living with it today.

01:19:16.840 --> 01:19:18.840
We are, and that's exactly-

01:19:18.840 --> 01:19:21.800
Yeah, but and yet we have public transportation in the city

01:19:21.800 --> 01:19:25.840
, whereas our neighboring communities, many of them don't.

01:19:25.840 --> 01:19:29.630
So it is a, we might have crumbling streets, but the trade-

01:19:29.630 --> 01:19:32.840
off is that we do have some form of public transportation.

01:19:32.840 --> 01:19:35.840
If I could just get on that for a minute.

01:19:35.840 --> 01:19:38.159
Yeah, I'm going to stay away from how many people I see on

01:19:38.159 --> 01:19:41.789
those horses, how many cars are sitting, and that's kind of

01:19:41.789 --> 01:19:41.840
-

01:19:41.840 --> 01:19:44.800
But that is a challenge, that they have those sales taxes

01:19:44.800 --> 01:19:45.840
that can go to their streets and we don't.

01:19:45.840 --> 01:19:48.800
And that's kind of where I'm going with some of my comments

01:19:48.800 --> 01:19:53.109
and questions, is that I recognize and understand that's

01:19:53.109 --> 01:19:54.840
exactly the reason that we're in the position.

01:19:54.840 --> 01:19:58.479
And I certainly understand the tech stock right away, as I

01:19:58.479 --> 01:20:01.699
think I've spoken on that a number of times here to this

01:20:01.699 --> 01:20:02.840
commission.

01:20:02.840 --> 01:20:05.579
And it gets back to the roads that we do have control over,

01:20:05.579 --> 01:20:08.199
which is to the ones you brought up, Bonnie Bray and May

01:20:08.199 --> 01:20:08.840
hill.

01:20:08.840 --> 01:20:11.840
But we don't have the funds to be able to do those.

01:20:11.840 --> 01:20:14.859
Those should be, if we're anywhere like the other

01:20:14.859 --> 01:20:18.569
communities, those should already be six-lane concrete

01:20:18.569 --> 01:20:20.840
roads from 35 to 380.

01:20:20.840 --> 01:20:26.789
And they're not. They're as passable as they can be asphalt

01:20:26.789 --> 01:20:31.840
and not even have curb and gutter on them.

01:20:31.840 --> 01:20:35.569
So I understand to that point that we have some things that

01:20:35.569 --> 01:20:39.210
were decided well before it ever came to the point that we

01:20:39.210 --> 01:20:42.840
are here today that we're stuck with living with.

01:20:42.840 --> 01:20:47.270
And I want to also ask just a kind of a general information

01:20:47.270 --> 01:20:48.840
question for me.

01:20:48.840 --> 01:20:51.989
I know there was a bike count that was done, I won't say

01:20:51.989 --> 01:20:53.840
within the last month or two.

01:20:53.840 --> 01:20:57.840
And I would like to see what those counts are versus what

01:20:57.840 --> 01:20:59.840
our traffic counts are.

01:20:59.840 --> 01:21:04.489
I think bikes are a great form of a way to get around if

01:21:04.489 --> 01:21:09.840
that's something that works for you or for your family.

01:21:09.840 --> 01:21:12.840
It's to the same vein of like DCTA.

01:21:12.840 --> 01:21:15.840
I think these things are great ideas.

01:21:15.840 --> 01:21:19.720
But I also want to balance the great idea of what we would

01:21:19.720 --> 01:21:22.949
like to do with the reality of when we spend money on

01:21:22.949 --> 01:21:23.840
things like this,

01:21:23.840 --> 01:21:30.130
that public transportation, bike trails or bike lanes, that

01:21:30.130 --> 01:21:32.840
we do that at the expense of other things.

01:21:32.840 --> 01:21:36.479
And I would like to see just from a dollar dollar

01:21:36.479 --> 01:21:40.489
standpoint is if we've got a bike count of 400 bikes on a

01:21:40.489 --> 01:21:44.840
road and a traffic count of 25,000 cars,

01:21:44.840 --> 01:21:48.479
how much money are we spending to do bike lanes versus

01:21:48.479 --> 01:21:52.479
putting another lane or two lanes that travel, you know,

01:21:52.479 --> 01:21:56.840
cars can travel on so that in another 25 or 30 years,

01:21:56.840 --> 01:21:59.159
we're not sitting here going, well, we've got bike lanes

01:21:59.159 --> 01:21:59.840
everywhere.

01:21:59.840 --> 01:22:01.840
But now we really can't get anywhere.

01:22:01.840 --> 01:22:05.479
And we kind of are sitting here going, you know, we need to

01:22:05.479 --> 01:22:06.840
balance some of those things.

01:22:06.840 --> 01:22:11.140
I think it's just my opinion that we look at it from that

01:22:11.140 --> 01:22:15.960
standpoint as well because our predecessors that said at

01:22:15.960 --> 01:22:19.430
this commission and City Council made these exact same

01:22:19.430 --> 01:22:23.220
decisions based at different periods of time of what

01:22:23.220 --> 01:22:24.840
sounded like a really good idea

01:22:24.840 --> 01:22:27.640
and may have been popular at the time to do public

01:22:27.640 --> 01:22:28.840
transportation.

01:22:28.840 --> 01:22:30.520
And now we don't have the funds to maintain the roads that

01:22:30.520 --> 01:22:30.840
we have.

01:22:30.840 --> 01:22:34.329
And we've got tremendous gridlock in our city, and we've

01:22:34.329 --> 01:22:38.069
got a tremendous amount of growth coming with 35. And we

01:22:38.069 --> 01:22:39.840
can get from one side of town to the other.

01:22:39.840 --> 01:22:44.760
We now have 2030 didn't plan, which is quit growing outside

01:22:44.760 --> 01:22:49.050
of Denton and bring everybody in and if, in my opinion, if

01:22:49.050 --> 01:22:53.460
we as a commission City Council and staff, don't get our

01:22:53.460 --> 01:22:55.840
hands around how we solve some of these issues.

01:22:55.840 --> 01:22:59.229
We're going to force everybody to be inside the loop, and

01:22:59.229 --> 01:23:02.500
they're tech stock roads and we don't have money to do the

01:23:02.500 --> 01:23:03.840
roads that we got.

01:23:03.840 --> 01:23:06.739
We may need four lane bike roads because that's the only

01:23:06.739 --> 01:23:08.840
way you're going to get around town.

01:23:08.840 --> 01:23:12.399
And that's not going to be popular once 105 degrees or 15

01:23:12.399 --> 01:23:16.630
degrees. So, if I can, Commissioner Brickle. Thank you, sir

01:23:16.630 --> 01:23:16.840
.

01:23:16.840 --> 01:23:21.250
I would also like to find out that that bike count as well.

01:23:21.250 --> 01:23:25.479
And I'd like to hear kind of where Denton ranks in Texas or

01:23:25.479 --> 01:23:30.170
among other mid sized cities in the country about per

01:23:30.170 --> 01:23:35.079
capita bike use being that we are a college town and I

01:23:35.079 --> 01:23:36.840
imagine it's probably higher than most.

01:23:36.840 --> 01:23:39.579
So as long as we're looking at that those numbers, if you

01:23:39.579 --> 01:23:42.260
could kind of give us an idea of where we rank among other

01:23:42.260 --> 01:23:44.939
communities of our size or in our area for number of bike

01:23:44.939 --> 01:23:46.840
users, that'd be helpful too.

01:23:46.840 --> 01:23:52.840
Okay.

01:23:52.840 --> 01:23:54.840
Lots of work for the department.

01:23:54.840 --> 01:23:55.840
I'm sorry.

01:23:55.840 --> 01:23:58.479
Lots of work for engineering department. I'm making all the

01:23:58.479 --> 01:23:58.840
notes.

01:23:58.840 --> 01:24:01.390
I'll get John Davis to come and give you a presentation on

01:24:01.390 --> 01:24:01.840
that.

01:24:01.840 --> 01:24:06.840
That's where we pay you the big bucks.

01:24:06.840 --> 01:24:09.739
I think we have someone here already and to see staff that

01:24:09.739 --> 01:24:12.840
can speak to some of these questions have been proposed.

01:24:12.840 --> 01:24:21.840
Yes, please, Shandrin, if you wouldn't mind.

01:24:21.840 --> 01:24:23.840
Good evening, Commissioner.

01:24:23.840 --> 01:24:26.899
I'm Shandrin Jarvis with the planning department and I

01:24:26.899 --> 01:24:30.229
spent most of my career as a transportation planner dealing

01:24:30.229 --> 01:24:31.840
with these such issues.

01:24:31.840 --> 01:24:38.840
I just have two recommendations and things to think about.

01:24:38.840 --> 01:24:43.390
Your question about the sales tax is you're going in the

01:24:43.390 --> 01:24:47.840
right direction, but I think two things that I've noticed

01:24:47.840 --> 01:24:51.149
that are missing that may be happening in those other

01:24:51.149 --> 01:24:52.840
communities is that they coordinate with the NPS.

01:24:52.840 --> 01:24:57.840
I guess in this area, it's the NCT cog.

01:24:57.840 --> 01:24:59.840
Have you heard about that?

01:24:59.840 --> 01:25:07.060
I don't want to get into too many details, but states give

01:25:07.060 --> 01:25:11.250
part of their gas tax funds to the federal government every

01:25:11.250 --> 01:25:12.840
however many years.

01:25:12.840 --> 01:25:16.479
Part of that is returned back to the states and is

01:25:16.479 --> 01:25:20.039
distributed again through the NPS, but you have to request

01:25:20.039 --> 01:25:20.840
that money.

01:25:20.840 --> 01:25:23.840
And I don't know that that's been happening here.

01:25:23.840 --> 01:25:26.840
So there may be something to look into.

01:25:26.840 --> 01:25:31.859
The other thing is you may want to look into getting an MOU

01:25:31.859 --> 01:25:37.100
with TextDOT to get control over your roles that are within

01:25:37.100 --> 01:25:39.840
the city's jurisdiction.

01:25:39.840 --> 01:25:42.840
So just something to think about.

01:25:42.840 --> 01:25:44.840
Those are options.

01:25:44.840 --> 01:25:45.840
MOU means?

01:25:45.840 --> 01:25:48.840
Memorandum of understanding.

01:25:48.840 --> 01:25:52.840
And is that something that P and Z can do?

01:25:52.840 --> 01:25:53.840
Commissioner Bruegel.

01:25:53.840 --> 01:25:54.840
Thank you, Chair.

01:25:54.840 --> 01:25:57.510
Is that something that P and Z can do or is that more

01:25:57.510 --> 01:26:00.840
something that City Council would have direction over?

01:26:00.840 --> 01:26:01.840
Good.

01:26:01.840 --> 01:26:02.840
Can I come back to you?

01:26:02.840 --> 01:26:05.829
Because those are great ideas, but are we the right body to

01:26:05.829 --> 01:26:06.840
finish that?

01:26:06.840 --> 01:26:08.840
The coordination with cog is standard.

01:26:08.840 --> 01:26:09.840
It happens.

01:26:09.840 --> 01:26:14.840
So the projects that get done, cog is involved in those.

01:26:14.840 --> 01:26:18.479
In terms of the turn back is what the term is being used by

01:26:18.479 --> 01:26:19.840
TextDOT right now.

01:26:19.840 --> 01:26:25.119
To turn back those roads where the ones that go through the

01:26:25.119 --> 01:26:28.479
cities and majority of the traffic generated is through

01:26:28.479 --> 01:26:29.840
those cities on those roads.

01:26:29.840 --> 01:26:33.899
But they're not really a major TextDOT traffic route, if

01:26:33.899 --> 01:26:34.840
you will.

01:26:34.840 --> 01:26:38.640
And they're trying to give those back to the cities all

01:26:38.640 --> 01:26:40.840
around the state right now.

01:26:40.840 --> 01:26:42.840
City have been involved on that.

01:26:42.840 --> 01:26:46.840
There's discussions going on currently with TextDOT.

01:26:46.840 --> 01:26:52.100
When you take a road, all of the maintenance responsibility

01:26:52.100 --> 01:26:53.840
come on the city.

01:26:53.840 --> 01:26:55.840
So that's a big issue.

01:26:55.840 --> 01:26:59.890
What TextDOT needs to do, what condition those roads need

01:26:59.890 --> 01:27:02.840
to be before a city will take them over.

01:27:02.840 --> 01:27:07.270
And in lieu of that, what TextDOT will do in addition to

01:27:07.270 --> 01:27:10.840
that to build something else in the city.

01:27:10.840 --> 01:27:13.840
So those discussions are currently underway right now.

01:27:13.840 --> 01:27:16.840
There's been going on for the last almost two years.

01:27:16.840 --> 01:27:17.840
Okay.

01:27:17.840 --> 01:27:19.840
And that's happening among staff?

01:27:19.840 --> 01:27:21.840
Yeah, it's with the staff.

01:27:21.840 --> 01:27:28.840
We have one of the ACMs involved in it.

01:27:28.840 --> 01:27:32.840
And some of the engineers involved in it.

01:27:32.840 --> 01:27:35.840
Well, I want to ask a follow up on that.

01:27:35.840 --> 01:27:38.369
Earlier in your presentation, you were talking about the

01:27:38.369 --> 01:27:40.840
right of way the city has to acquire to get the utilities

01:27:40.840 --> 01:27:42.840
outside of TextDOT right of way.

01:27:42.840 --> 01:27:44.840
The easements.

01:27:44.840 --> 01:27:48.840
And the costs associated with those.

01:27:48.840 --> 01:27:52.890
It seems just on the surface that it would be to our

01:27:52.890 --> 01:27:56.899
advantage to take those roads over sooner rather than later

01:27:56.899 --> 01:27:59.840
, even though they may not be in the greatest condition.

01:27:59.840 --> 01:28:00.840
Yes.

01:28:00.840 --> 01:28:03.319
Because then we don't have to buy the right of way, reloc

01:28:03.319 --> 01:28:05.840
ate all the utilities and all that additional cost.

01:28:05.840 --> 01:28:08.840
Then those can actually stay in the current right of way.

01:28:08.840 --> 01:28:09.840
Yes.

01:28:09.840 --> 01:28:12.840
And on the chessboard, that is one of the items there.

01:28:12.840 --> 01:28:15.840
That is one of the considerations that city is looking at.

01:28:15.840 --> 01:28:19.000
Like in Kenya, we have to, you know, if TextDOT is still a

01:28:19.000 --> 01:28:21.840
TextDOT road, there's a lot of utilities we got.

01:28:21.840 --> 01:28:22.840
We have to move them out.

01:28:22.840 --> 01:28:24.840
We have to buy lots of easements.

01:28:24.840 --> 01:28:28.479
You know, millions of dollars adding to the total cost of

01:28:28.479 --> 01:28:29.840
the project there.

01:28:29.840 --> 01:28:31.840
So those are part of the mix.

01:28:31.840 --> 01:28:33.840
We're already currently working on that.

01:28:33.840 --> 01:28:34.840
Yes, sir.

01:28:34.840 --> 01:28:36.840
Okay, great.

01:28:36.840 --> 01:28:40.680
And if I could just answer your question, Amber, we, if P&Z

01:28:40.680 --> 01:28:45.470
would not look upon memorandum of understanding, that would

01:28:45.470 --> 01:28:48.260
be something that council would pass on and they would have

01:28:48.260 --> 01:28:50.890
to pass an ordinance to authorize the city manager to

01:28:50.890 --> 01:28:51.840
execute that.

01:28:51.840 --> 01:28:54.840
But that wouldn't be within the purview of P&Z.

01:28:54.840 --> 01:28:58.250
And it might also be helpful, I've just been listening to

01:28:58.250 --> 01:29:01.350
some of your questions, and I think it would be helpful to

01:29:01.350 --> 01:29:04.840
know where the funds come from for these specific items.

01:29:04.840 --> 01:29:06.840
Because you have two issues with streets.

01:29:06.840 --> 01:29:09.350
You have the capacity issue and you've got the maintenance

01:29:09.350 --> 01:29:09.840
issue.

01:29:09.840 --> 01:29:12.840
And I think that those are funded by two different sources.

01:29:12.840 --> 01:29:15.949
So that might be something that you could bring forward as

01:29:15.949 --> 01:29:17.840
to where that money comes from.

01:29:17.840 --> 01:29:21.880
Yeah, the capacity, the impact fees are what will pay for

01:29:21.880 --> 01:29:23.840
the capacity expansion.

01:29:23.840 --> 01:29:28.840
The maintenance cannot be paid for through the impact fees.

01:29:28.840 --> 01:29:33.180
But in the last bond election, there were additional bonds

01:29:33.180 --> 01:29:33.840
sold.

01:29:33.840 --> 01:29:38.130
So currently, the state department gets $6 million a year

01:29:38.130 --> 01:29:42.840
as bond funding for rehab projects, plus additional monies.

01:29:42.840 --> 01:29:45.989
So they're approaching, I think, close to $12 million a

01:29:45.989 --> 01:29:48.840
year that they will be spending for rehab projects.

01:29:48.840 --> 01:29:52.539
So yes, there is a lot of effort that have been put in in

01:29:52.539 --> 01:29:55.840
the last three, four years to move up the funding for

01:29:55.840 --> 01:29:58.840
street projects, especially the rehab projects.

01:29:58.840 --> 01:30:04.090
So they can bring those to better driving condition, if you

01:30:04.090 --> 01:30:04.840
will.

01:30:04.840 --> 01:30:11.239
City does a overall condition index analysis of the entire

01:30:11.239 --> 01:30:14.840
street system, OCI reading.

01:30:14.840 --> 01:30:19.840
And streets which have a high OCI are good, 60 and over.

01:30:19.840 --> 01:30:23.840
There are streets which are 18, 20.

01:30:23.840 --> 01:30:28.609
So anything that is currently under 41 OCI is high priority

01:30:28.609 --> 01:30:31.159
, because they will totally fall apart and the cost will be

01:30:31.159 --> 01:30:31.840
even higher.

01:30:31.840 --> 01:30:37.000
So those are on high priority to be done as part of the

01:30:37.000 --> 01:30:38.840
rehab process.

01:30:38.840 --> 01:30:39.840
Commissioner Roswell.

01:30:39.840 --> 01:30:40.840
Thank you.

01:30:40.840 --> 01:30:44.289
We mentioned last week in our meeting about the potential

01:30:44.289 --> 01:30:47.840
for McKinney transitioning or turning back to Denton.

01:30:47.840 --> 01:30:53.859
Is there a list or available list of current roads that are

01:30:53.859 --> 01:30:57.840
being talked about being turned back,

01:30:57.840 --> 01:31:01.479
just so we as a commission can understand maybe the

01:31:01.479 --> 01:31:04.840
landscape of what's hopefully going to take place?

01:31:04.840 --> 01:31:10.359
Yeah, it is kind of a, I think the Tech Start has come up

01:31:10.359 --> 01:31:11.840
with a list.

01:31:11.840 --> 01:31:14.840
I can check with them and see if we can pass it on to you.

01:31:14.840 --> 01:31:15.840
Okay.

01:31:15.840 --> 01:31:16.840
Thank you.

01:31:16.840 --> 01:31:21.840
As an email.

01:31:21.840 --> 01:31:24.840
Anybody else?

01:31:24.840 --> 01:31:25.840
Well.

01:31:25.840 --> 01:31:28.420
Just as a refresher, I mean, this might be helpful for you

01:31:28.420 --> 01:31:28.840
all.

01:31:28.840 --> 01:31:32.619
I know that we mentioned it when we were going over some of

01:31:32.619 --> 01:31:36.500
the items for the new members, but when you sit as part of

01:31:36.500 --> 01:31:37.840
the CIAC board,

01:31:37.840 --> 01:31:42.050
that this mobility plan that's going to be passed by PNZ

01:31:42.050 --> 01:31:44.840
will be incorporated into the CIP, correct?

01:31:44.840 --> 01:31:48.689
And that's something that you're going to look at as long

01:31:48.689 --> 01:31:50.840
with the land use assumptions.

01:31:50.840 --> 01:31:54.680
And you'll take that information to determine any impact

01:31:54.680 --> 01:31:57.840
fees that might be assessed for the roadway.

01:31:57.840 --> 01:32:02.840
So you're going to be looking at it multiple times.

01:32:02.840 --> 01:32:05.840
Just as a point of clarification.

01:32:05.840 --> 01:32:06.840
Okay.

01:32:06.840 --> 01:32:07.840
Chair, if...

01:32:07.840 --> 01:32:08.840
Commissioner Duttlewitz.

01:32:08.840 --> 01:32:11.840
We're now at the point of what's next.

01:32:11.840 --> 01:32:12.840
I asked this question.

01:32:12.840 --> 01:32:16.010
When we get the presentation next week, we will have a vote

01:32:16.010 --> 01:32:16.840
, correct?

01:32:16.840 --> 01:32:17.840
Yes.

01:32:17.840 --> 01:32:22.840
And our vote will pass on yay or nay to City Council.

01:32:22.840 --> 01:32:26.840
Can we do so with conditions?

01:32:26.840 --> 01:32:27.840
Yes.

01:32:27.840 --> 01:32:30.210
Chair, do you have some conditions you want to discuss

01:32:30.210 --> 01:32:31.840
while we're having work session?

01:32:31.840 --> 01:32:34.859
Well, again, going back to my issue of current streets

01:32:34.859 --> 01:32:38.289
within the city, within residential areas that could

01:32:38.289 --> 01:32:39.840
potentially widen,

01:32:39.840 --> 01:32:43.840
and we have property issues and business issues.

01:32:43.840 --> 01:32:48.779
Can we look at those plans that engineering is going to put

01:32:48.779 --> 01:32:50.840
forth for a logic check,

01:32:50.840 --> 01:32:55.300
and go back to that, that it makes sense for that plan to

01:32:55.300 --> 01:32:56.840
be put in place?

01:32:56.840 --> 01:32:59.420
Keep in mind that the mobility plan does not cover

01:32:59.420 --> 01:33:00.840
residential streets.

01:33:00.840 --> 01:33:03.880
It will be collective streets, which are more in the

01:33:03.880 --> 01:33:04.840
commercial areas,

01:33:04.840 --> 01:33:08.479
and also larger developments in the interior, collective

01:33:08.479 --> 01:33:09.840
streets, the new ones,

01:33:09.840 --> 01:33:12.840
and of course the primary and secondary art trails.

01:33:12.840 --> 01:33:14.840
It would not cover residential streets in that.

01:33:14.840 --> 01:33:15.840
Continue.

01:33:15.840 --> 01:33:16.840
Yes, Bob.

01:33:16.840 --> 01:33:17.840
Thank you, because that does clarify.

01:33:17.840 --> 01:33:21.789
Because, again, mobility plan is a concept, but the issues

01:33:21.789 --> 01:33:23.840
that I'm having is that,

01:33:23.840 --> 01:33:27.100
once this goes into concept, at what point does it become

01:33:27.100 --> 01:33:27.840
actionable?

01:33:27.840 --> 01:33:30.380
When do they actually start to say, okay, we're going to

01:33:30.380 --> 01:33:32.840
build that street, and here's the plan for that street?

01:33:32.840 --> 01:33:33.840
We're in the process of --

01:33:33.840 --> 01:33:38.420
The model, the traffic numbers I'm showing you, for the

01:33:38.420 --> 01:33:41.840
current conditions we have, the existing conditions,

01:33:41.840 --> 01:33:46.369
we have a model run that shows how much traffic is on each

01:33:46.369 --> 01:33:48.840
street in the entire city.

01:33:48.840 --> 01:33:53.020
So based on that traffic, we know which roads are failing

01:33:53.020 --> 01:33:54.840
in terms of capacity.

01:33:54.840 --> 01:33:59.250
Not my question exactly, because I understand that, based

01:33:59.250 --> 01:34:00.840
on computer models.

01:34:00.840 --> 01:34:02.840
Bonnie Bray is an example.

01:34:02.840 --> 01:34:06.350
There's a concept plan for it, and in that model, certain

01:34:06.350 --> 01:34:10.840
entrances to shopping centers and streets were eliminated.

01:34:10.840 --> 01:34:13.840
It didn't make sense.

01:34:13.840 --> 01:34:17.869
And so when I asked the question of why that was happening,

01:34:17.869 --> 01:34:19.840
well, because we can't.

01:34:19.840 --> 01:34:25.119
And, again, my point is there is no overview of a process

01:34:25.119 --> 01:34:29.840
or of a plan other than engineering themselves.

01:34:29.840 --> 01:34:31.840
No one else reviews that plan.

01:34:31.840 --> 01:34:36.100
We review plans as P&Z of developments going in and streets

01:34:36.100 --> 01:34:37.840
and how that impacts,

01:34:37.840 --> 01:34:41.909
but we don't get to look at this as a approval process, if

01:34:41.909 --> 01:34:45.840
you will, or an oversight to suggest changes, logic changes

01:34:45.840 --> 01:34:47.840
that we're doing right now.

01:34:47.840 --> 01:34:50.310
So I don't know at what point in the process it is, but my

01:34:50.310 --> 01:34:51.840
concern would be,

01:34:51.840 --> 01:34:54.329
will you approve the mobility plan and kind of have carte

01:34:54.329 --> 01:34:55.840
blanche to go forward with it?

01:34:55.840 --> 01:34:56.840
Yeah.

01:34:56.840 --> 01:34:59.859
I mean, you can put that as a condition, but it is really

01:34:59.859 --> 01:35:03.840
not something that mobility plan addresses.

01:35:03.840 --> 01:35:05.840
That is not the intent of the mobility plan.

01:35:05.840 --> 01:35:10.310
That is a site-specific design that you can definitely

01:35:10.310 --> 01:35:13.840
address with the engineering department.

01:35:13.840 --> 01:35:18.149
If you have something that is affecting a property that you

01:35:18.149 --> 01:35:21.210
want to talk to them, you contact the engineering

01:35:21.210 --> 01:35:24.840
department and talk to them.

01:35:24.840 --> 01:35:27.800
I don't know if it's helpful, but a lot of the funding for

01:35:27.800 --> 01:35:31.569
some of the streets that are contemplated by the mobility

01:35:31.569 --> 01:35:31.840
plan

01:35:31.840 --> 01:35:35.159
is done through the capital improvements committee, which

01:35:35.159 --> 01:35:36.840
is like a budget committee.

01:35:36.840 --> 01:35:40.399
And so it has to do with the bond election, and they go

01:35:40.399 --> 01:35:42.840
through a separate committee for that.

01:35:42.840 --> 01:35:45.960
My question, again, my concerns will still continue, and

01:35:45.960 --> 01:35:47.840
this may not be the place to do it.

01:35:47.840 --> 01:35:50.750
Sometimes the mobility plan is amended after that's already

01:35:50.750 --> 01:35:52.840
been approved by a separate committee.

01:35:52.840 --> 01:35:58.020
Jennifer is not going to talk about individual driveway

01:35:58.020 --> 01:35:59.840
openings, etc.

01:35:59.840 --> 01:36:02.840
It doesn't. That's not the intent of the mobility plan.

01:36:02.840 --> 01:36:03.840
No.

01:36:03.840 --> 01:36:06.409
And he gave me an explanation for that, and I understand

01:36:06.409 --> 01:36:06.840
that.

01:36:06.840 --> 01:36:09.739
So I have to reposition when and where I bring that up at

01:36:09.739 --> 01:36:13.840
what point in time, or the process to get it in place.

01:36:13.840 --> 01:36:17.010
And I'll be talking with legal staff on that in city

01:36:17.010 --> 01:36:17.840
council.

01:36:17.840 --> 01:36:18.840
Chair, can I ask a question?

01:36:18.840 --> 01:36:19.840
Commissioner Rozelle.

01:36:19.840 --> 01:36:23.479
Commissioner Notowicz, are you asking for a plat of the

01:36:23.479 --> 01:36:27.159
road so you can see curb cuts, you can see medians, you can

01:36:27.159 --> 01:36:27.840
see sidewalks,

01:36:27.840 --> 01:36:31.479
and that approved by us, is that what you're kind of

01:36:31.479 --> 01:36:34.840
getting at so we see the construction plans of a road?

01:36:34.840 --> 01:36:35.840
I'm just trying to understand your concern.

01:36:35.840 --> 01:36:40.920
Exactly. We saw a concept of Bonnie Bray done by

01:36:40.920 --> 01:36:42.840
engineering.

01:36:42.840 --> 01:36:45.399
And I'm looking at it as well as other people looking at it

01:36:45.399 --> 01:36:47.840
and go, wait a minute, there's an entrance to this.

01:36:47.840 --> 01:36:50.100
There currently is an entrance into the shopping center at

01:36:50.100 --> 01:36:51.840
the corner of Bonnie Bray and University.

01:36:51.840 --> 01:36:53.840
The plan showed it to be closed.

01:36:53.840 --> 01:36:57.479
The plan also suggested there was a median in which any

01:36:57.479 --> 01:37:02.000
traffic traveling from the south to the north on Bonnie Br

01:37:02.000 --> 01:37:05.840
ay would not have the ability to enter that shopping center.

01:37:05.840 --> 01:37:10.140
They would have to go up around, up to Robson, raise a

01:37:10.140 --> 01:37:14.369
ranch, make a U-turn, come back in to utilize that, Alberts

01:37:14.369 --> 01:37:16.840
ons and any of the restaurants and facilities there.

01:37:16.840 --> 01:37:19.850
Now to me it doesn't make any sense because right now we

01:37:19.850 --> 01:37:23.189
have, we have a little bit of a median, we have the ability

01:37:23.189 --> 01:37:24.840
to turn in and turn out.

01:37:24.840 --> 01:37:26.840
It just doesn't make sense.

01:37:26.840 --> 01:37:31.550
As well as the widening of that street is going to require

01:37:31.550 --> 01:37:35.189
the removal of half a parking lot, if you will, that now

01:37:35.189 --> 01:37:38.050
services those businesses that face east within that

01:37:38.050 --> 01:37:38.840
shopping center.

01:37:38.840 --> 01:37:42.930
And the people that rent and lease those properties, my

01:37:42.930 --> 01:37:45.229
business fronts it and now I have no parking because you're

01:37:45.229 --> 01:37:45.840
taking that out.

01:37:45.840 --> 01:37:49.840
And that was now shown on that plan.

01:37:49.840 --> 01:37:52.890
And we're going, how do we change this or what's the

01:37:52.890 --> 01:37:53.840
situation?

01:37:53.840 --> 01:37:57.800
My answer that I got at the meeting, the open house meeting

01:37:57.800 --> 01:38:00.840
or citizens meeting was it's a done deal.

01:38:00.840 --> 01:38:01.840
Well, wait a minute.

01:38:01.840 --> 01:38:03.840
Well, we had that approved by bond.

01:38:03.840 --> 01:38:07.720
The bond approves to me the funding for it, but the design

01:38:07.720 --> 01:38:11.140
I'm suggesting needs to have someone to look at it and say

01:38:11.140 --> 01:38:14.840
does this make sense for people who travel or whatever.

01:38:14.840 --> 01:38:19.159
There's a lot of older citizens south of there is a vintage

01:38:19.159 --> 01:38:23.359
retirement center that utilize the medical accessory

01:38:23.359 --> 01:38:25.840
building retail shops there.

01:38:25.840 --> 01:38:28.359
They go to that Albertsons, they go to the restaurants

01:38:28.359 --> 01:38:28.840
there.

01:38:28.840 --> 01:38:30.520
They come up that road and they won't be able to turn in

01:38:30.520 --> 01:38:30.840
there.

01:38:30.840 --> 01:38:34.510
So again, just making sure that some of these plans have a

01:38:34.510 --> 01:38:38.260
logic to it that doesn't impact the current businesses and

01:38:38.260 --> 01:38:39.840
citizens mobility.

01:38:39.840 --> 01:38:40.840
That's all.

01:38:40.840 --> 01:38:41.840
That's where I'm at.

01:38:41.840 --> 01:38:42.840
Yeah.

01:38:42.840 --> 01:38:45.840
Come on, Becca, just to throw this at you.

01:38:45.840 --> 01:38:49.279
We did a subcommittee, I think, in the last meeting or two

01:38:49.279 --> 01:38:51.840
in regards to some of our zoning issues.

01:38:51.840 --> 01:38:54.840
I don't I know this is a very dear issue to you.

01:38:54.840 --> 01:38:56.840
We spent quite a bit of time.

01:38:56.840 --> 01:39:02.250
Are we capable of doing a subcommittee of that and let some

01:39:02.250 --> 01:39:06.460
of our commissioners that would like to spend some more

01:39:06.460 --> 01:39:09.840
time on that and streamline this process some to do that.

01:39:09.840 --> 01:39:13.779
I want to know what that is really because the reason why

01:39:13.779 --> 01:39:17.899
we don't have a committee currently looking oversight

01:39:17.899 --> 01:39:23.409
specific plans is because we have determined that that's

01:39:23.409 --> 01:39:26.079
solely an engineering function because it has to do with

01:39:26.079 --> 01:39:26.840
the design.

01:39:26.840 --> 01:39:28.840
So and you want to stay away from that.

01:39:28.840 --> 01:39:33.359
And for the benefit of the board, I just want to say that

01:39:33.359 --> 01:39:36.260
we don't want to have public officials practicing

01:39:36.260 --> 01:39:38.840
engineering who aren't professional engineers.

01:39:38.840 --> 01:39:42.479
Excuse me. I've had that argument with legal and it doesn't

01:39:42.479 --> 01:39:42.840
fly.

01:39:42.840 --> 01:39:48.399
I'm not suggesting we look at rebarbed and engineering

01:39:48.399 --> 01:39:48.840
drawings.

01:39:48.840 --> 01:39:51.810
Materials are not the only thing that goes into engineering

01:39:51.810 --> 01:39:51.840
.

01:39:51.840 --> 01:39:52.840
Excuse me.

01:39:52.840 --> 01:39:53.840
But we look at plot plans.

01:39:53.840 --> 01:39:56.840
How far away something is from an intersection.

01:39:56.840 --> 01:39:58.840
I disagree with that.

01:39:58.840 --> 01:40:02.000
So I mean that's something else you and I can take up and

01:40:02.000 --> 01:40:05.079
we can talk to you about that and issue an opinion if we

01:40:05.079 --> 01:40:05.840
need to.

01:40:05.840 --> 01:40:09.720
But I'm just letting the rest of the board know why we

01:40:09.720 --> 01:40:14.250
haven't historically had such as a committee or commission

01:40:14.250 --> 01:40:18.840
on things like that.

01:40:18.840 --> 01:40:20.840
Commissioner has been tried.

01:40:20.840 --> 01:40:21.840
Sorry.

01:40:21.840 --> 01:40:26.840
I was packed up and everything.

01:40:26.840 --> 01:40:29.840
Here's here's my thought to the I.

01:40:29.840 --> 01:40:35.840
I get the heart of what Commissioner Duttle with the same

01:40:35.840 --> 01:40:40.500
the linear side of my brain says, yeah, no, I don't I don't

01:40:40.500 --> 01:40:42.840
want to know any of what PS knows.

01:40:42.840 --> 01:40:43.840
I don't want to know any of it.

01:40:43.840 --> 01:40:45.840
I mean, it's just it's too much.

01:40:45.840 --> 01:40:50.880
And in addition to that, I would make a point to you, Mr. D

01:40:50.880 --> 01:40:52.840
uttle, which that while your point is valid.

01:40:52.840 --> 01:40:53.840
And again, I grew up in that area.

01:40:53.840 --> 01:40:58.180
So I've ridden bikes up and down that road since Long John

01:40:58.180 --> 01:40:59.840
Sivils was there.

01:40:59.840 --> 01:41:01.840
But my thought is that same thought.

01:41:01.840 --> 01:41:04.859
Take that same example of someone from vintage driving

01:41:04.859 --> 01:41:06.840
their car towards Albertsons.

01:41:06.840 --> 01:41:09.840
And now it's a six lane road or whatever it's going to be.

01:41:09.840 --> 01:41:13.880
And they're turning across traffic and you got traffic from

01:41:13.880 --> 01:41:14.840
the north.

01:41:14.840 --> 01:41:17.960
I mean, I think there's factors in there that I'm not

01:41:17.960 --> 01:41:21.229
saying it's the best for the businesses, but I'm also

01:41:21.229 --> 01:41:22.840
telling you it's a fact.

01:41:22.840 --> 01:41:26.479
I drive by Chinatown Cafe, whatever those other three

01:41:26.479 --> 01:41:27.840
businesses face.

01:41:27.840 --> 01:41:30.430
And I mean, you can't I've never seen that parking lot full

01:41:30.430 --> 01:41:33.840
ever, ever in the 20 years I've lived on that street.

01:41:33.840 --> 01:41:34.840
So I get it.

01:41:34.840 --> 01:41:37.840
But we have to balance it with reality.

01:41:37.840 --> 01:41:41.840
I balance it with I don't know the curb cuts.

01:41:41.840 --> 01:41:42.840
I don't know the distances.

01:41:42.840 --> 01:41:43.840
I don't know that stuff.

01:41:43.840 --> 01:41:45.840
I think your input is valid.

01:41:45.840 --> 01:41:50.300
But I also think you have to put a practical application to

01:41:50.300 --> 01:41:50.840
it.

01:41:50.840 --> 01:41:53.680
So I'd love to talk to those businesses, and I'd love them

01:41:53.680 --> 01:41:56.399
to explain to me the day that their parking lot was full

01:41:56.399 --> 01:41:57.840
because I didn't see it.

01:41:57.840 --> 01:41:58.840
Excuse me.

01:41:58.840 --> 01:41:59.840
I have a business there.

01:41:59.840 --> 01:41:59.840
Sure.

01:41:59.840 --> 01:42:02.840
I know that parking lot gets full at noon.

01:42:02.840 --> 01:42:03.840
At noon?

01:42:03.840 --> 01:42:04.840
Yes, thank you very much.

01:42:04.840 --> 01:42:04.840
Okay.

01:42:04.840 --> 01:42:06.840
So the impact is real.

01:42:06.840 --> 01:42:09.720
And I have looked at and judged that issue from a practical

01:42:09.720 --> 01:42:10.840
ity standpoint.

01:42:10.840 --> 01:42:11.840
It doesn't make sense.

01:42:11.840 --> 01:42:19.520
We have six lane roads with turn lanes available right now

01:42:19.520 --> 01:42:21.840
on 380.

01:42:21.840 --> 01:42:22.840
It can be done.

01:42:22.840 --> 01:42:25.340
I'm not saying anything else, but it just it doesn't make

01:42:25.340 --> 01:42:25.840
sense.

01:42:25.840 --> 01:42:29.180
And maybe at the end of the day, some things will make

01:42:29.180 --> 01:42:29.840
sense.

01:42:29.840 --> 01:42:32.659
But we need to have at least a review of it and then not

01:42:32.659 --> 01:42:35.789
let just one department have a carte blanche rule over it

01:42:35.789 --> 01:42:37.840
and say you don't have any input.

01:42:37.840 --> 01:42:38.840
That's my point.

01:42:38.840 --> 01:42:40.840
And they may, excuse me.

01:42:40.840 --> 01:42:43.840
They do try to get input by having neighborhood meetings.

01:42:43.840 --> 01:42:46.350
But when you're at that meeting and someone answers me with

01:42:46.350 --> 01:42:47.840
, well, you can't change it.

01:42:47.840 --> 01:42:49.840
It's a done deal.

01:42:49.840 --> 01:42:51.840
That's not an acceptable answer.

01:42:51.840 --> 01:42:53.840
Not to a citizen who pays taxes.

01:42:53.840 --> 01:42:54.840
I'm sorry.

01:42:54.840 --> 01:42:55.840
I'm very passionate about it.

01:42:55.840 --> 01:42:56.840
I'm sorry for that.

01:42:56.840 --> 01:42:59.840
But this is a real one.

01:42:59.840 --> 01:43:02.289
And it's going to continue if we're going to start to

01:43:02.289 --> 01:43:03.840
improve our city streets.

01:43:03.840 --> 01:43:07.479
And also within this plan, they plan to take a portion of

01:43:07.479 --> 01:43:09.840
property that's going to impact business.

01:43:09.840 --> 01:43:10.840
I have a business there.

01:43:10.840 --> 01:43:13.439
It's going to impact my business and there's other

01:43:13.439 --> 01:43:14.840
businesses there too.

01:43:14.840 --> 01:43:21.840
Just to mention, Tex.DOT, expanding I-35 from 635, they're

01:43:21.840 --> 01:43:24.840
buying out so much property to expand the road.

01:43:24.840 --> 01:43:29.840
Motels, gas stations, other businesses out there.

01:43:29.840 --> 01:43:34.920
And I think there's close to four or $500 million set aside

01:43:34.920 --> 01:43:38.840
to pay for those properties as they acquire them.

01:43:38.840 --> 01:43:41.930
Either sometimes that business will have nothing left, so

01:43:41.930 --> 01:43:43.840
they have to pay for the business.

01:43:43.840 --> 01:43:48.140
And that's all part of the evaluation process that they

01:43:48.140 --> 01:43:49.840
have to go through.

01:43:49.840 --> 01:43:50.840
Commissioner Tyler.

01:43:50.840 --> 01:43:51.840
Thank you, Chair.

01:43:51.840 --> 01:43:56.810
I think this is a broader issue than a single intersection

01:43:56.810 --> 01:43:58.840
or a single curb cut.

01:43:58.840 --> 01:44:03.569
You know, engineering is full of very smart people who know

01:44:03.569 --> 01:44:04.840
their stuff.

01:44:04.840 --> 01:44:08.840
They're all certified and experts in what they do.

01:44:08.840 --> 01:44:15.840
But there is room in this for citizen input, if you will,

01:44:15.840 --> 01:44:17.840
or some level of citizen oversight.

01:44:17.840 --> 01:44:20.619
And it won't be, I don't like, I think you need to move

01:44:20.619 --> 01:44:22.840
this 20 feet or that 20 feet.

01:44:22.840 --> 01:44:25.609
It will be, let's look at other solutions to these

01:44:25.609 --> 01:44:26.840
challenges here.

01:44:26.840 --> 01:44:29.840
Especially, it's context-sensitive design.

01:44:29.840 --> 01:44:33.020
So whenever you're going into an area that's got a 40-foot

01:44:33.020 --> 01:44:36.109
built street and now it needs to become a collector, well,

01:44:36.109 --> 01:44:37.840
how do we cram a collector into 40 feet?

01:44:37.840 --> 01:44:40.840
What can we do to mitigate the traffic issues?

01:44:40.840 --> 01:44:44.479
You know, the engineering standards and AASHTO and our own

01:44:44.479 --> 01:44:47.489
design standards will say this is what it needs to look

01:44:47.489 --> 01:44:47.840
like.

01:44:47.840 --> 01:44:50.840
And we must have 500 feet to the nearest curb cut.

01:44:50.840 --> 01:44:53.729
We must have, you know, 200 feet from the corners to the

01:44:53.729 --> 01:44:54.840
nearest driveway.

01:44:54.840 --> 01:44:58.479
And the engineering will, you know, it's their job to

01:44:58.479 --> 01:44:59.840
follow those standards.

01:44:59.840 --> 01:45:04.649
And those standards are put in place by city council and

01:45:04.649 --> 01:45:07.840
other citizen oversight groups.

01:45:07.840 --> 01:45:11.520
But there is room in that process probably for some

01:45:11.520 --> 01:45:12.840
flexibility.

01:45:12.840 --> 01:45:16.399
And it might be, there might be things where you can't put

01:45:16.399 --> 01:45:17.840
a curb cut in there.

01:45:17.840 --> 01:45:20.369
And there's a really good safety reason or a really good,

01:45:20.369 --> 01:45:21.840
you know, whatever reason.

01:45:21.840 --> 01:45:25.579
But I think it would still be better to have some way of

01:45:25.579 --> 01:45:26.840
hearing that.

01:45:26.840 --> 01:45:29.090
I struggle with this because I agree, but I don't know if

01:45:29.090 --> 01:45:29.840
it's planning.

01:45:29.840 --> 01:45:31.840
I don't think it's planning and zoning.

01:45:31.840 --> 01:45:33.840
I don't know who it would be.

01:45:33.840 --> 01:45:36.739
And it needs to be part of the process because it needs to

01:45:36.739 --> 01:45:39.640
not hang up engineering for six weeks every time they want

01:45:39.640 --> 01:45:41.840
to, you know, publish a design.

01:45:41.840 --> 01:45:45.399
It needs to be something where it just, it flows right

01:45:45.399 --> 01:45:46.840
through in the process.

01:45:46.840 --> 01:45:49.840
And you have some oversight and some steering.

01:45:49.840 --> 01:45:51.840
And it's not, it shouldn't be contentious.

01:45:51.840 --> 01:45:55.659
It should be a way of making sure that, you know, the

01:45:55.659 --> 01:45:59.840
community's values are represented in the designs.

01:45:59.840 --> 01:46:02.859
And so questions and a little bit of discussion will happen

01:46:02.859 --> 01:46:05.840
and then the concerns will be addressed, you know.

01:46:05.840 --> 01:46:10.060
And context sensitive design is really what that's all

01:46:10.060 --> 01:46:10.840
about.

01:46:10.840 --> 01:46:12.840
And I don't know how we're going to implement it here.

01:46:12.840 --> 01:46:16.479
And I don't know if it's going to have some kind of citizen

01:46:16.479 --> 01:46:18.840
oversight beyond a set of rules in the DDC.

01:46:18.840 --> 01:46:22.619
But I do think there is space there without overriding what

01:46:22.619 --> 01:46:25.680
, you know, having somebody who's not an engineer tell an

01:46:25.680 --> 01:46:31.479
engineer, you know, how they need to build something or

01:46:31.479 --> 01:46:34.840
something like that.

01:46:34.840 --> 01:46:35.840
Okay.

01:46:35.840 --> 01:46:36.840
It's been a great discussion.

01:46:36.840 --> 01:46:40.840
Any other questions or comments before we close?

01:46:40.840 --> 01:46:43.840
So am I good to go in the next meeting?

01:46:43.840 --> 01:46:48.840
I was going to ask a question.

01:46:48.840 --> 01:46:49.840
I think so.

01:46:49.840 --> 01:46:56.840
Yes.

01:46:56.840 --> 01:46:58.840
Frank's the one you need to ask.

01:46:58.840 --> 01:47:00.840
Yes.

01:47:00.840 --> 01:47:03.840
I think I understand the conceptual.

01:47:03.840 --> 01:47:09.390
I'll bring these up from my side and I will bring it up to

01:47:09.390 --> 01:47:14.630
people in the city so they can come back and they will see

01:47:14.630 --> 01:47:16.840
what they need to do with all this.

01:47:16.840 --> 01:47:17.840
And I agree.

01:47:17.840 --> 01:47:20.840
Commissioner Gattowicz.

01:47:20.840 --> 01:47:25.840
I'm taking this up with council, mayor and Anita.

01:47:25.840 --> 01:47:29.399
Because I've heard around the state these issues have come

01:47:29.399 --> 01:47:32.770
up and some learned people have suggested a place to put

01:47:32.770 --> 01:47:35.840
that oversight in place and we may review that.

01:47:35.840 --> 01:47:39.390
But again, I'm just making sure the coals are staying warm

01:47:39.390 --> 01:47:42.840
so that when it flares up, we have an understanding.

01:47:42.840 --> 01:47:45.520
If it ever comes back to us, the other council or

01:47:45.520 --> 01:47:48.840
commissioners have an idea why this is so important.

01:47:48.840 --> 01:47:49.840
Okay.

01:47:49.840 --> 01:47:50.840
Thank you.

01:47:50.840 --> 01:47:54.659
Thank you for the special session to answer a lot of

01:47:54.659 --> 01:47:55.840
questions.

01:47:55.840 --> 01:47:59.539
I know we've had a lot of questions and comments about

01:47:59.539 --> 01:48:02.840
mobility over the last number of meetings.

01:48:02.840 --> 01:48:05.199
So thank you for the extra time this evening to get those

01:48:05.199 --> 01:48:05.840
answered.

01:48:05.840 --> 01:48:08.840
And I'm looking forward to our next meeting.

01:48:08.840 --> 01:48:11.590
We'll be able to have your presentation in public and

01:48:11.590 --> 01:48:14.840
hopefully be able to move that forward on to city council.

01:48:14.840 --> 01:48:16.840
I know you're anxious to be able to move that forward.

01:48:16.840 --> 01:48:21.260
So with that, seeing no other questions or comments, we'll

01:48:21.260 --> 01:48:24.840
close the work session tonight at 720.

01:48:24.840 --> 01:48:26.840
Thank you.