1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,349
It's 532 and we have a quorum present and this meeting has

2
00:00:06,349 --> 00:00:11,480
been duly posted and I will open this meeting to receive a

3
00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,080
report and discussion on the recommended Denton mobility

4
00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:14,560
plan.

5
00:00:16,559 --> 00:00:21,570
And as a point of order as chair, I spoke with staff about

6
00:00:21,570 --> 00:00:24,160
this. I think what might help all of us in the essence of

7
00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:25,120
time tonight

8
00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,589
is to observe somewhat like what we do in council chambers

9
00:00:28,589 --> 00:00:32,399
is let's go through, we're going to have seven items.

10
00:00:32,399 --> 00:00:36,100
Let the presentation do each of those items. If you have a

11
00:00:36,100 --> 00:00:38,740
question that's not addressed to that item, let's make note

12
00:00:38,740 --> 00:00:38,960
of it.

13
00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,590
And when that item is presented, we'll open the floor for

14
00:00:41,590 --> 00:00:44,210
questions at that time and I think it will help our meeting

15
00:00:44,210 --> 00:00:46,479
this evening run a lot smoother.

16
00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:50,119
So I would ask all commissioners to give me that leeway

17
00:00:50,119 --> 00:00:50,719
tonight.

18
00:00:50,719 --> 00:00:53,679
We'll open with PSRORA.

19
00:00:53,679 --> 00:00:57,640
Good evening and thank you very much. I do appreciate you

20
00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,200
indulging me in this special call meeting and I happen to

21
00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,280
be the only item on the agenda.

22
00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,079
So we'll have some time to go through today.

23
00:01:06,079 --> 00:01:11,260
What I'm going to try and do is answer the questions that

24
00:01:11,260 --> 00:01:13,920
came up in the last meeting.

25
00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:18,950
Which one of them was how we go about exacting, doing the

26
00:01:18,950 --> 00:01:23,200
road exactions when development comes in.

27
00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,840
So I have some slides I'll go through that that relate to

28
00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,599
what is in the current DEN Development Code or DDC.

29
00:01:29,599 --> 00:01:33,900
The question about ex-commissioner that raised the

30
00:01:33,900 --> 00:01:38,579
alignment of the post-walk road and we have some options

31
00:01:38,579 --> 00:01:40,480
that we'll show you.

32
00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,030
Commissioner Taylor had raised a question about north-south

33
00:01:45,030 --> 00:01:49,310
connectivity on the west part of town as well as connection

34
00:01:49,310 --> 00:01:53,599
, east-west connection on the south part of the town.

35
00:01:53,599 --> 00:01:57,239
So we have put together some options and we'll share that

36
00:01:57,239 --> 00:01:58,400
information with you.

37
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,640
And with that we'll get started.

38
00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:15,830
So we'll start with how we go about a new development comes

39
00:02:15,830 --> 00:02:16,400
into town.

40
00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,379
What is it that they have to do to comply with the DEN

41
00:02:20,379 --> 00:02:25,039
Development Code in terms of road improvements and how they

42
00:02:25,039 --> 00:02:26,800
're exacted currently.

43
00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:31,319
So a new development that comes in, as you can see, it is

44
00:02:31,319 --> 00:02:33,360
going to create traffic.

45
00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,639
And that traffic is going to come on the existing road.

46
00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:41,590
And also if the development is existing but they're going

47
00:02:41,590 --> 00:02:45,949
to add to that and put a bit so there's higher intensity of

48
00:02:45,949 --> 00:02:48,400
usage so there'll be more traffic generated.

49
00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,689
All that traffic has to be accommodated on the public right

50
00:02:52,689 --> 00:02:53,680
-of-way.

51
00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:59,000
So there's a cost. That cost is exacted as part of the

52
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:00,479
development process.

53
00:03:00,479 --> 00:03:06,800
One of them will be the perimeter street improvement.

54
00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,439
If it is on an unimproved street. So what is an unimproved

55
00:03:10,439 --> 00:03:10,800
street?

56
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:15,229
If a road has no curb and girder and it does not meet our

57
00:03:15,229 --> 00:03:19,439
current width requirements for our criteria manual.

58
00:03:19,439 --> 00:03:23,900
I'll show you some cross sections later on that show what a

59
00:03:23,900 --> 00:03:28,080
road that meets the criteria, what it looks like.

60
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,729
But an unimproved road would be without any curb and girder

61
00:03:31,729 --> 00:03:35,199
and currently not meeting the width requirement.

62
00:03:35,199 --> 00:03:39,680
So if they happen to abut the unimproved road, then per DDC

63
00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,280
and the transportation criteria manual,

64
00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,919
if it is a collector's street, they happen to be on a

65
00:03:46,919 --> 00:03:51,360
collector's street, they have to construct 25 foot of the

66
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:52,319
road section,

67
00:03:52,319 --> 00:03:56,250
which is like a two lane traffic and they have to construct

68
00:03:56,250 --> 00:04:00,280
the sidewalk, curb and girder and dedicate also the right-

69
00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,419
of-way from the center line of the road to interior of their

70
00:04:04,419 --> 00:04:05,039
property.

71
00:04:05,039 --> 00:04:09,050
On a collector's street, it will be half of 70, which will

72
00:04:09,050 --> 00:04:13,069
be 35 feet. On a secondary arterial, which is a four lane

73
00:04:13,069 --> 00:04:16,959
highway, divided highway, the right-of-way is 110 feet.

74
00:04:16,959 --> 00:04:20,600
So that would be 55 feet from the center into their

75
00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,939
property. They might have to dedicate 5 feet, they may have

76
00:04:23,939 --> 00:04:26,639
to dedicate 20 feet to get to that 55 feet.

77
00:04:26,639 --> 00:04:31,060
But in their primary arterial, that is 135 foot right-of-

78
00:04:31,060 --> 00:04:35,529
way, so it's 67 and a half feet right-of-way dedication. If

79
00:04:35,529 --> 00:04:38,269
it is an arterial street, they have to construct 28 foot of

80
00:04:38,269 --> 00:04:39,040
the road section,

81
00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:43,750
and I'll show you why in the cross section, as well as the

82
00:04:43,750 --> 00:04:46,959
curb and girder, sidewalk, etc.

83
00:04:46,959 --> 00:04:50,680
On a new perimeter street, if that road is not there and a

84
00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,540
development comes in and it needs a new perimeter street,

85
00:04:54,540 --> 00:04:58,100
then they have to dedicate the right-of-way, depending on

86
00:04:58,100 --> 00:05:00,480
what the classification of that road is.

87
00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,949
They have to construct 25 feet of the section for a

88
00:05:02,949 --> 00:05:07,160
collector's street, or if it is an arterial, then required

89
00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,600
bicycle lane plus the 25 feet and the sidewalk.

90
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,810
On a collector's street, the sidewalks are 8 feet, and on

91
00:05:15,810 --> 00:05:20,120
an arterial street, secondary or primary, they are 5 foot

92
00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:21,199
sidewalks.

93
00:05:21,199 --> 00:05:24,879
And sidewalk, if there is already the road there, but there

94
00:05:24,879 --> 00:05:28,110
's no sidewalk, a development comes in, they have to

95
00:05:28,110 --> 00:05:29,920
construct the sidewalk.

96
00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:34,730
Signal cost, if the development happens to be close to an

97
00:05:34,730 --> 00:05:39,660
intersection, and we have in our master plan a signal to be

98
00:05:39,660 --> 00:05:42,480
constructed at that location,

99
00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,279
then based on the traffic generation, we calculate what

100
00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:50,250
share they have to pay towards the signal cost construction

101
00:05:50,250 --> 00:05:50,560
.

102
00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:56,000
So that is also collected as part of the DDC.

103
00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,399
The caveat to all that is a requirement put on all cities

104
00:06:00,399 --> 00:06:05,279
by the state law, which is proportionality assessment.

105
00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:12,029
We have a computer model that we had purchased from Kimley

106
00:06:12,029 --> 00:06:14,959
Home many years back.

107
00:06:14,959 --> 00:06:19,259
And we use that, it's part of the ordinance, where the

108
00:06:19,259 --> 00:06:22,079
developer would ask us to run that model.

109
00:06:22,079 --> 00:06:28,160
And if it is only a retail store coming in, and the burden

110
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:33,209
of constructing a 25 foot road and dedicating all the right

111
00:06:33,209 --> 00:06:36,550
of way may not be proportionate to the amount of traffic

112
00:06:36,550 --> 00:06:37,680
being generated.

113
00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,319
So the computer model that we have, it accounts for the

114
00:06:41,319 --> 00:06:44,879
traffic generated from that particular development.

115
00:06:44,879 --> 00:06:49,120
It looks at what is the classification of that road.

116
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,540
It looks at what is the frontage of that, and then it comes

117
00:06:52,540 --> 00:06:56,529
out with what is how much of the capacity they are using in

118
00:06:56,529 --> 00:06:59,360
that road section based on the traffic generation.

119
00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:04,740
So then if it is 100%, then they are going to pay 100% of

120
00:07:04,740 --> 00:07:05,759
the cost.

121
00:07:05,759 --> 00:07:09,319
If it is only 20%, they have to pay only 20% of the cost of

122
00:07:09,319 --> 00:07:10,480
that road section.

123
00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:15,050
So we sit down and we calculate for a 25 foot road section

124
00:07:15,050 --> 00:07:18,720
or a 28 foot road section on their frontage.

125
00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,550
What is the cost of that with the sidewalk and the right of

126
00:07:22,550 --> 00:07:23,439
way also.

127
00:07:23,439 --> 00:07:25,800
So we look at the right of way. We look at the appraisal

128
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:26,560
district.

129
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,399
What is the right of way cost? We add all that up and say

130
00:07:29,399 --> 00:07:31,439
it is $100,000.

131
00:07:31,439 --> 00:07:36,399
So if it is only 20%, they only have to pay 20%, $20,000.

132
00:07:36,399 --> 00:07:38,399
All right?

133
00:07:38,399 --> 00:07:42,240
And the current, this is the current process.

134
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,879
So that money, then it is tied to that location only

135
00:07:45,879 --> 00:07:50,480
because with $20,000, we can't build that road section.

136
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,360
Right? So the worker is going to give us the money.

137
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,839
That money goes into account.

138
00:07:55,839 --> 00:07:57,839
That is good for 10 years.

139
00:07:57,839 --> 00:08:00,800
If we don't use that money in 10 years and build something

140
00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,769
on that road which does include that address, we cannot use

141
00:08:04,769 --> 00:08:05,600
that money.

142
00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,639
In 10 years, after 10 years, that money goes back to them.

143
00:08:08,639 --> 00:08:12,399
And that is where we are going to the road impact fees

144
00:08:12,399 --> 00:08:15,250
because we can collect the road impact fees and be able to

145
00:08:15,250 --> 00:08:18,680
pull them in a service area and be able to use those monies

146
00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:18,879
.

147
00:08:18,879 --> 00:08:21,279
That is the benefit of going to a road impact fee.

148
00:08:21,279 --> 00:08:25,160
So the proportionality assessment is one of the tools that

149
00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,120
we use in a computer model.

150
00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:33,240
So those are the current ways that we determine exactions

151
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:34,720
for roads.

152
00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:36,720
So here is a road cross section you can see.

153
00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:41,240
And I was talking about 135 foot right of way where you

154
00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:45,769
have a back to back 40 foot pavement including the curve

155
00:08:45,769 --> 00:08:46,559
here.

156
00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,240
And a 5 foot sidewalk with a 10 foot buffer in there.

157
00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,879
So the developer, if they were on a 135 foot right of way,

158
00:08:53,879 --> 00:08:58,450
they had to dedicate from this point to their property line

159
00:08:58,450 --> 00:08:58,799
.

160
00:08:58,799 --> 00:09:01,519
They had to make sure it is 67 and a half feet all across

161
00:09:01,519 --> 00:09:02,480
their frontage.

162
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,120
If it is not, then they have to get back into their

163
00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,080
property and dedicate that.

164
00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:13,330
Then come back and construct all of this, 16 and 12, 28

165
00:09:13,330 --> 00:09:14,000
foot.

166
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,360
That is the 28 foot coming in on a arterial street.

167
00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,710
And on a secondary arterial is 110 foot right of way, so 55

168
00:09:21,710 --> 00:09:22,320
foot.

169
00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,320
Do the 28 foot construction, construct the 5 foot sidewalk.

170
00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:30,649
On a collector street, 70 foot right of way, dedicate 35

171
00:09:30,649 --> 00:09:31,279
foot.

172
00:09:31,279 --> 00:09:34,960
8 foot sidewalk construction and 25 foot pavement

173
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,159
construction.

174
00:09:36,159 --> 00:09:39,500
Of course all with a caveat with the proportionality

175
00:09:39,500 --> 00:09:40,159
assessment.

176
00:09:40,159 --> 00:09:42,159
Okay?

177
00:09:42,159 --> 00:09:44,960
So that is how the current DDC works.

178
00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,769
And the road impact fees that we will go to will replace

179
00:09:48,769 --> 00:09:49,840
all of this.

180
00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,480
And we will determine road impact fees based on the traffic

181
00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,879
generation from that particular entity that is coming in.

182
00:09:56,879 --> 00:10:01,909
If there are any questions up to this point, I will be

183
00:10:01,909 --> 00:10:04,399
happy to answer those.

184
00:10:04,399 --> 00:10:06,399
Commissioner Rosale.

185
00:10:06,399 --> 00:10:08,399
Thank you, Chair.

186
00:10:08,399 --> 00:10:13,159
If they are required to only build out their portion of the

187
00:10:13,159 --> 00:10:17,039
frontage road, is the city obligated at that time to

188
00:10:17,039 --> 00:10:18,399
complete the other half?

189
00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:21,360
Or is it just half a road at that point?

190
00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:25,809
This is where you run into those, they will build that 25

191
00:10:25,809 --> 00:10:28,159
foot segment on their frontage.

192
00:10:28,159 --> 00:10:31,799
And then they will go back to the existing road with a

193
00:10:31,799 --> 00:10:32,879
transition.

194
00:10:32,879 --> 00:10:34,879
And that's what they will do.

195
00:10:34,879 --> 00:10:38,519
And since cities don't have the money, that will maybe be

196
00:10:38,519 --> 00:10:40,720
like that for 10 or 15 years or so.

197
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,360
Until we collect enough money to do a project on.

198
00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:45,360
Thank you.

199
00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:46,399
Commissioner Back.

200
00:10:46,399 --> 00:10:48,399
Thank you, Chair.

201
00:10:48,399 --> 00:10:51,759
Proportionality assessment, that is based on the traffic

202
00:10:51,759 --> 00:10:53,919
they are going to bring in, right?

203
00:10:53,919 --> 00:10:55,919
That's pretty much it, right?

204
00:10:55,919 --> 00:10:59,559
So if all the traffic is coming in, that's the 100% we are

205
00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:00,399
talking about?

206
00:11:00,399 --> 00:11:05,519
Yeah, if the model shows that it is 100%, then they pay 100

207
00:11:05,519 --> 00:11:08,399
% of the cost of that road construction on their frontage.

208
00:11:08,399 --> 00:11:12,100
That doesn't get impacted later if something else comes in

209
00:11:12,100 --> 00:11:13,440
and offsets that?

210
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,080
Well, you know, it is determined during the planning

211
00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,519
process, they tell us what use it will be.

212
00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:21,519
So that's how we run the model.

213
00:11:21,519 --> 00:11:24,340
But later on, they come back and say, hey, the use has gone

214
00:11:24,340 --> 00:11:24,799
down.

215
00:11:24,799 --> 00:11:26,799
Then we do work with it.

216
00:11:26,799 --> 00:11:27,840
Yes.

217
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,840
Thank you.

218
00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:31,840
Commissioner Dadovich.

219
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,840
Thank you.

220
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:35,840
You're showing us some concepts here.

221
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,840
Are these based on current DVC requirements?

222
00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:45,840
Go through existing primary arterial or existing?

223
00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:47,840
Yeah, that's existing.

224
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,840
That requires a 24 foot median, correct?

225
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:51,840
That's right.

226
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,700
How many of these types of roads do we have with 24 foot

227
00:11:54,700 --> 00:11:55,840
median currently?

228
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:57,840
Not very many.

229
00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,840
But that's the goal, to build those.

230
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:01,840
Why?

231
00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:03,840
Why do we need 24 foot?

232
00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:05,840
The turn lanes are one of the issues.

233
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:07,840
We mentioned that last time.

234
00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:12,820
It allows you to cut into the median at the intersection to

235
00:12:12,820 --> 00:12:13,840
put your turn lanes.

236
00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:15,840
Otherwise, you don't have a place to put a turn lane.

237
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,840
Okay.

238
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,480
DOT is building roads and I don't have seen a 24 foot

239
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,840
median in that gap term.

240
00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:29,789
So what my point is, and this is my, okay, and Chair

241
00:12:29,789 --> 00:12:31,840
explains for future development,

242
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:36,340
my concern is in current developed areas, residents where

243
00:12:36,340 --> 00:12:39,840
we're going to make improvements,

244
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,450
and I'm seeing and thinking that all of a sudden now we're

245
00:12:42,450 --> 00:12:43,840
going to start taking property

246
00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:48,259
in order to build 24 foot medians and buffers that are

247
00:12:48,259 --> 00:12:51,840
going to require condemnation and taking up property.

248
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:56,909
And that is where the alternate cross sections will come

249
00:12:56,909 --> 00:12:57,840
into play.

250
00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:59,519
Where, you know, we may not be able to get all the right

251
00:12:59,519 --> 00:12:59,840
over.

252
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,750
So if you cannot get all the right over because you've got

253
00:13:02,750 --> 00:13:06,440
all these apartments built up and very expensive millions

254
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:07,840
of dollars of investment,

255
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:09,840
and you can't buy it, Eagle Drive, look at Eagle Drive.

256
00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:11,840
You can't really buy any right over there.

257
00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:13,840
Right, you can't.

258
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,860
So if you can, then you have to adjust your cross section

259
00:13:16,860 --> 00:13:17,840
at that time.

260
00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:19,840
You will adjust the cross section?

261
00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:21,840
Yes, sir.

262
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:23,519
Because I'm afraid that, you know, I've seen all these

263
00:13:23,519 --> 00:13:26,820
mobility plans and they're going to start going through

264
00:13:26,820 --> 00:13:27,840
residential areas.

265
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,429
A lot of this will be for new, there's a lot of area in the

266
00:13:30,429 --> 00:13:31,840
city which is brand new.

267
00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:39,840
You've got almost 9,000 acres in adjusting your MPCs,

268
00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:41,840
master plan communities, close to 9,000 acres.

269
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,100
And the cross sections they will use are these cross

270
00:13:45,100 --> 00:13:45,840
sections.

271
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,840
I understand. New stuff, I understand completely.

272
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,970
I'm just worried about current existing, for instance, the

273
00:13:51,970 --> 00:13:55,250
Bonnie Bray situation, where we're having to condemn, not

274
00:13:55,250 --> 00:13:55,840
condemn,

275
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,789
but have to buy property and owners are wondering why do we

276
00:13:59,789 --> 00:14:03,840
have to do this when we have an existing four lane highway,

277
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,649
by the way, at 35 miles per hour and all of a sudden now we

278
00:14:06,649 --> 00:14:07,840
're looking at this.

279
00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,639
I'm not sure, because the city is now going to be

280
00:14:10,639 --> 00:14:12,840
responsible for buying property.

281
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:17,190
Yeah, this Bonnie Bray and Mayhill Road both, majority of

282
00:14:17,190 --> 00:14:22,289
the funding is coming from the 121 project where the RTR

283
00:14:22,289 --> 00:14:23,840
funding is coming in.

284
00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:29,840
The 121 project was initially by bonds that TexDOT sold,

285
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,840
but now you actually have to pay money to get on 121.

286
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,809
So TexDOT was able to free up those bonds and that's what

287
00:14:37,809 --> 00:14:42,039
is being used partly for Bonnie Bray construction and May

288
00:14:42,039 --> 00:14:42,840
hill Road construction.

289
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,909
80% of the money being used for those roads is coming from

290
00:14:46,909 --> 00:14:47,840
the state.

291
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:52,980
And follow up, just for the benefit of some of the new

292
00:14:52,980 --> 00:14:57,659
commissioners, I've been on a sort of a pirate, if anything

293
00:14:57,659 --> 00:14:58,840
, more than that,

294
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:04,970
where engineering in this situation can plan a road, but

295
00:15:04,970 --> 00:15:08,429
they have no oversight as to when it's going to have 24

296
00:15:08,429 --> 00:15:09,840
foot and when it's not.

297
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:14,529
And if they can enclose existing entrances and exits out of

298
00:15:14,529 --> 00:15:15,840
businesses and what not.

299
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:20,159
There's not an existing format to oversee that other than

300
00:15:20,159 --> 00:15:23,580
have a town meeting, make recommendations and they take it

301
00:15:23,580 --> 00:15:24,840
back and they may or may not,

302
00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:30,840
at their discretion, follow what the populace would like.

303
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:35,190
So I've been asking the process by which planning and

304
00:15:35,190 --> 00:15:39,840
zoning can suggest or take to city council.

305
00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,480
The fact is that let's take a look at that if it makes

306
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,840
logic and sense to close a street, a road, a driveway,

307
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,840
anything that has to do with current situations.

308
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,840
But there is currently no oversight.

309
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,840
So they kind of get to do what they think is best.

310
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,190
And I think that we need a citizen's review of that as we

311
00:16:01,190 --> 00:16:04,840
do with plot plans and other site plans and everything else

312
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:06,840
to make sure it makes sense.

313
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,159
Now we're not asking to be engineers to look at, are they

314
00:16:10,159 --> 00:16:13,190
using six inch concrete or are they using rebar or what's

315
00:16:13,190 --> 00:16:14,840
the curb cuts look like or whatever.

316
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,840
That's their par view.

317
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,159
But something to look at it and say, for instance, we

318
00:16:20,159 --> 00:16:23,450
looked at a couple of plots and turns and where roads were

319
00:16:23,450 --> 00:16:26,470
going and you drive that and you go, that doesn't make

320
00:16:26,470 --> 00:16:26,840
sense.

321
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,840
Well, same thing can happen in the city.

322
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,480
And I would like to be able to think that we have a way to

323
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:37,259
a process by which we can review it and do a logic check on

324
00:16:37,259 --> 00:16:37,840
it.

325
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,840
I think there's a clarification staff.

326
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:42,840
Thank you, Chairperson.

327
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,759
Just for the edification of the commissioners, would you

328
00:16:46,759 --> 00:16:50,690
please differentiate between text dot right of way as well

329
00:16:50,690 --> 00:16:54,259
as city owned right of way and as it relates to where we

330
00:16:54,259 --> 00:16:58,210
would install potential pedestrian utility easements and

331
00:16:58,210 --> 00:17:01,980
how that would impact, for instance, the illustration that

332
00:17:01,980 --> 00:17:04,480
we have before us as far as the buffers are shown and the

333
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:05,839
tree plantings are shown.

334
00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:09,839
So that the commission has a very clear understanding of is

335
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:13,759
what they see on the ground or potentially what they see on

336
00:17:13,759 --> 00:17:14,839
the ground.

337
00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:17,160
Is it going to look like that or is it going to look

338
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:17,839
differently?

339
00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:21,480
So just so if we can clarify that point, because in some

340
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,410
instances we may not have the ability to provide the tree

341
00:17:24,410 --> 00:17:25,839
plantings either.

342
00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:27,839
Okay.

343
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:31,839
If it is a city street, so the city owns a right of way,

344
00:17:31,839 --> 00:17:34,839
then the utilities can be placed in the right of way.

345
00:17:34,839 --> 00:17:35,839
And we do.

346
00:17:35,839 --> 00:17:38,569
All the roads that you see in residential areas or

347
00:17:38,569 --> 00:17:41,839
collector streets, civil line goes right in the middle.

348
00:17:41,839 --> 00:17:43,839
Because that is the high point.

349
00:17:43,839 --> 00:17:47,170
And we don't want the water flow from during storm events

350
00:17:47,170 --> 00:17:48,839
to go into the manholes.

351
00:17:48,839 --> 00:17:51,589
If the manhole is busted a little bit, all that water will

352
00:17:51,589 --> 00:17:52,839
go into the manhole.

353
00:17:52,839 --> 00:17:54,519
And that is extra water that we don't need in the civil

354
00:17:54,519 --> 00:17:54,839
line.

355
00:17:54,839 --> 00:17:56,839
So civil lines get put in the middle.

356
00:17:56,839 --> 00:18:00,730
Water lines by state law have to be nine feet away from the

357
00:18:00,730 --> 00:18:04,839
civil line so they get put in close to the curb down here.

358
00:18:04,839 --> 00:18:09,759
And storm water lines usually will be on the other side of

359
00:18:09,759 --> 00:18:10,839
the road.

360
00:18:10,839 --> 00:18:14,839
The franchise utilities usually go in the parkway.

361
00:18:14,839 --> 00:18:17,839
Or you also go in the right of way also.

362
00:18:17,839 --> 00:18:21,170
There are a lot of Verizon and Atmos lines which are in the

363
00:18:21,170 --> 00:18:21,839
roads.

364
00:18:21,839 --> 00:18:24,839
And they are there.

365
00:18:24,839 --> 00:18:27,839
So that is the city right of way.

366
00:18:27,839 --> 00:18:32,539
If it is Tex-Dot or county, then with Tex-Dot what happens

367
00:18:32,539 --> 00:18:35,900
is if we got a -- they have a utility accommodation zone

368
00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:37,839
that they allow you.

369
00:18:37,839 --> 00:18:41,529
And it is not very wide, but all the utilities, if it is

370
00:18:41,529 --> 00:18:46,200
water or sewer or all the franchise utilities, Verizon, At

371
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,670
mos, cable or what have you, they all go in that

372
00:18:49,670 --> 00:18:50,839
accommodation zone.

373
00:18:50,839 --> 00:18:54,809
So we try not to put water or sewer utilities in the

374
00:18:54,809 --> 00:18:56,839
accommodation zone.

375
00:18:56,839 --> 00:19:01,660
But we have lots of utilities right now on 380, on Fort

376
00:19:01,660 --> 00:19:06,319
Worth Drive, Loop 288 we had, where we had to spend

377
00:19:06,319 --> 00:19:09,599
millions of dollars because those were constructed in an

378
00:19:09,599 --> 00:19:10,839
existing right of way.

379
00:19:10,839 --> 00:19:14,180
And when Tex-Dot came in to expand those roads, we had to

380
00:19:14,180 --> 00:19:17,539
spend the money at our cost to move those utilities out of

381
00:19:17,539 --> 00:19:18,839
the right of way.

382
00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:22,650
So that is where our policy right now is to buy easements

383
00:19:22,650 --> 00:19:25,839
and put those utilities in the easements.

384
00:19:25,839 --> 00:19:28,839
It is not cheap to put a water or sewer line.

385
00:19:28,839 --> 00:19:32,609
Eight inch line will cost you $100 a foot to put a sewer

386
00:19:32,609 --> 00:19:33,839
line out there.

387
00:19:33,839 --> 00:19:34,839
So it is very expensive.

388
00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:38,839
It costs millions of dollars to do projects out there.

389
00:19:38,839 --> 00:19:42,809
So that is the difference between a right of way owned by

390
00:19:42,809 --> 00:19:46,839
the county and the state versus city owned right of way.

391
00:19:46,839 --> 00:19:50,480
Because we have the right to go in our own right of way and

392
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,839
maintain that water or sewer line.

393
00:19:52,839 --> 00:19:55,839
We can't do that in Tex-Dot or county.

394
00:19:55,839 --> 00:19:56,839
We have to get permits from them.

395
00:19:56,839 --> 00:19:59,569
We have to meet their requirements on the road

396
00:19:59,569 --> 00:20:00,839
reconstruction.

397
00:20:00,839 --> 00:20:04,480
In our case, we work with our own departments, state

398
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:05,839
departments to work on that.

399
00:20:05,839 --> 00:20:12,910
So what happens is these street trees that you see right

400
00:20:12,910 --> 00:20:18,519
here sometimes, the roots, you know, if there is a sewer

401
00:20:18,519 --> 00:20:18,839
line,

402
00:20:18,839 --> 00:20:22,160
that is going to be put in, you know, out here in the eas

403
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:22,839
ement.

404
00:20:22,839 --> 00:20:26,630
Then if the tree is very close to the sewer line, the roots

405
00:20:26,630 --> 00:20:31,009
of the trees, they penetrate the pipe, especially the

406
00:20:31,009 --> 00:20:31,839
joints.

407
00:20:31,839 --> 00:20:35,549
Currently, on the wastewater department, we spend close to

408
00:20:35,549 --> 00:20:38,839
$100,000 a year just in root treatment.

409
00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:42,480
Because these are sewer lines built where now we have trees

410
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,839
growing and roots go down and they like the water that is

411
00:20:46,839 --> 00:20:49,839
going through the sewer line.

412
00:20:49,839 --> 00:20:51,839
And that's what they want.

413
00:20:51,839 --> 00:20:54,900
So they find a way to get into the joints and they push the

414
00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:55,839
joints out.

415
00:20:55,839 --> 00:20:56,839
They mess up the pipes.

416
00:20:56,839 --> 00:20:58,839
It's a very expensive process.

417
00:20:58,839 --> 00:21:01,839
So that's where, and same thing for our water lines.

418
00:21:01,839 --> 00:21:06,259
So we've got to keep these trees a certain distance away or

419
00:21:06,259 --> 00:21:15,490
have a clean, you know, some sort of a wall that will be

420
00:21:15,490 --> 00:21:15,839
there,

421
00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:21,490
that will control the root growth downwards and not towards

422
00:21:21,490 --> 00:21:23,839
the water sewer line.

423
00:21:23,839 --> 00:21:26,839
So sometimes we run into those issues.

424
00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:29,160
And we have textile roads and now we've got a water and

425
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:29,839
sewer line.

426
00:21:29,839 --> 00:21:34,539
We bought the easement and we spent, you know, $5 a square

427
00:21:34,539 --> 00:21:37,170
foot or $10 a square foot to buy that easement and we have

428
00:21:37,170 --> 00:21:38,839
to put the sewer line or water line.

429
00:21:38,839 --> 00:21:41,839
It's very hard to accommodate trees in that area.

430
00:21:41,839 --> 00:21:48,230
We do allow some landscaping, which is at, you know, if we

431
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:51,920
had to go back and fix the water sewer line, that's the

432
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,839
cost of the owner to put that back in.

433
00:21:55,839 --> 00:21:57,839
Okay.

434
00:21:57,839 --> 00:21:58,839
Commissioner Bruegel.

435
00:21:58,839 --> 00:22:00,839
Thank you, Chair.

436
00:22:00,839 --> 00:22:02,980
Yes, I'd like to change gears here for just a second and

437
00:22:02,980 --> 00:22:04,839
talk about bikes because that's my thing.

438
00:22:04,839 --> 00:22:12,950
Can you go back to that, the slide about the perimeter

439
00:22:12,950 --> 00:22:14,839
streets?

440
00:22:14,839 --> 00:22:16,839
Yeah, new perimeter streets.

441
00:22:16,839 --> 00:22:19,839
They're required to build a bike lane.

442
00:22:19,839 --> 00:22:23,619
Is that a dedicated bike lane or is that just simply a wide

443
00:22:23,619 --> 00:22:24,839
outside lane?

444
00:22:24,839 --> 00:22:25,839
Can you define that?

445
00:22:25,839 --> 00:22:29,970
In the areas where based on the city's master bike plan, it

446
00:22:29,970 --> 00:22:32,839
will be a dedicated bike lane with markings on it.

447
00:22:32,839 --> 00:22:33,839
Okay.

448
00:22:33,839 --> 00:22:39,130
So it'll be striped, it won't just be right over here in

449
00:22:39,130 --> 00:22:40,839
the shoulder.

450
00:22:40,839 --> 00:22:43,259
Yeah, that's what I, and I served on, and I'm embarrassed,

451
00:22:43,259 --> 00:22:45,839
I served on the bike lane, but that was like six years ago.

452
00:22:45,839 --> 00:22:49,150
So I, sometimes I draw a blank as to what exactly is in

453
00:22:49,150 --> 00:22:49,839
there.

454
00:22:49,839 --> 00:22:53,839
We haven't implemented much of it until just recently.

455
00:22:53,839 --> 00:22:55,839
There is some work now actually going on.

456
00:22:55,839 --> 00:22:57,839
There is some now, yes, right.

457
00:22:57,839 --> 00:23:01,839
But did the bike plan include construction of new streets?

458
00:23:01,839 --> 00:23:06,140
As I recall it, it was just we highlighted what we have

459
00:23:06,140 --> 00:23:09,480
currently in Denton and said that these are going to be the

460
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:10,839
streets that we're going to put bike lanes on.

461
00:23:10,839 --> 00:23:14,569
But I don't recall us talking about future construction,

462
00:23:14,569 --> 00:23:15,839
future streets.

463
00:23:15,839 --> 00:23:17,839
Well, they're like Sycamore Street.

464
00:23:17,839 --> 00:23:21,099
You know, if you look at Sycamore in the, that was a

465
00:23:21,099 --> 00:23:24,839
project that I did, the downtown implementation plan.

466
00:23:24,839 --> 00:23:31,839
So we did a road master plan for the DTP area.

467
00:23:31,839 --> 00:23:37,839
And that, so we did several computer models from that.

468
00:23:37,839 --> 00:23:42,339
And Sycamore, if I remember, it showed a bike lane from the

469
00:23:42,339 --> 00:23:44,839
bus station all the way to UNT.

470
00:23:44,839 --> 00:23:46,839
And I remember this because that's an existing street.

471
00:23:46,839 --> 00:23:48,839
So we're talking about new streets.

472
00:23:48,839 --> 00:23:51,160
And when I look at the mobility plan, we're adding a lot of

473
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:51,839
new streets.

474
00:23:51,839 --> 00:23:54,460
And I'm not quite sure that the bike, that the bike plan

475
00:23:54,460 --> 00:23:57,210
that we did as a city five, six years ago talks

476
00:23:57,210 --> 00:23:59,839
specifically about new streets.

477
00:23:59,839 --> 00:24:02,740
So as long as we're talking about new streets here with the

478
00:24:02,740 --> 00:24:06,190
new mobility plan, I would like a really clear definition

479
00:24:06,190 --> 00:24:07,839
of what is a bicycle lane.

480
00:24:07,839 --> 00:24:10,799
What exactly are they required to provide when they're

481
00:24:10,799 --> 00:24:12,839
building a new perimeter street?

482
00:24:12,839 --> 00:24:13,839
Is it simply a stripe?

483
00:24:13,839 --> 00:24:14,839
Is it a share-o?

484
00:24:14,839 --> 00:24:16,839
Is it a wide outside lane?

485
00:24:16,839 --> 00:24:18,839
Is it something with a barrier?

486
00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:22,480
And it could be, you know, it could be sensitive, it could

487
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,839
be specific to the neighborhood or the area.

488
00:24:25,839 --> 00:24:29,519
But I'd like a clear definition on what exactly they're

489
00:24:29,519 --> 00:24:31,839
required to provide with this.

490
00:24:31,839 --> 00:24:34,609
And if you recall, I had done a presentation, a couple of

491
00:24:34,609 --> 00:24:38,859
presentations back, which was on the context sensitive

492
00:24:38,859 --> 00:24:39,839
design.

493
00:24:39,839 --> 00:24:40,839
Yes.

494
00:24:40,839 --> 00:24:44,799
And then we have some cross-sections that we have put

495
00:24:44,799 --> 00:24:45,839
together.

496
00:24:45,839 --> 00:24:50,210
They need to be vetted so that there are some alternate

497
00:24:50,210 --> 00:24:54,839
cross-sections as that was pointed out.

498
00:24:54,839 --> 00:24:57,089
If it's an existing road and a neighborhood and you can't

499
00:24:57,089 --> 00:24:59,640
do anything with it to buy more right away, then what's the

500
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:00,839
best use of that road?

501
00:25:00,839 --> 00:25:04,480
How do you get the maximum benefit that the stakeholders

502
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:05,839
want in that area?

503
00:25:05,839 --> 00:25:06,839
And who would oversee that?

504
00:25:06,839 --> 00:25:09,839
Would that be the Traffic Safety Commission or is that P&Z?

505
00:25:09,839 --> 00:25:12,839
Actually, it goes through the Mobility Committee.

506
00:25:12,839 --> 00:25:15,910
And sometimes, you know, they would ask me to go to the

507
00:25:15,910 --> 00:25:17,839
Traffic Safety Commission.

508
00:25:17,839 --> 00:25:22,839
And then, of course, it goes to the council.

509
00:25:22,839 --> 00:25:26,180
If you all want to see it, once I get to the Mobility

510
00:25:26,180 --> 00:25:27,839
Committee, I'll be happy to bring it back.

511
00:25:27,839 --> 00:25:31,130
And you can show you what the bike line would look like and

512
00:25:31,130 --> 00:25:31,839
all that.

513
00:25:31,839 --> 00:25:32,839
Well, I'd like to see that.

514
00:25:32,839 --> 00:25:33,839
That'd be great.

515
00:25:33,839 --> 00:25:34,839
If you could also --

516
00:25:34,839 --> 00:25:38,130
Or I can show it to you individually that we can share that

517
00:25:38,130 --> 00:25:38,839
with you.

518
00:25:38,839 --> 00:25:39,839
Okay.

519
00:25:39,839 --> 00:25:40,839
But thank you.

520
00:25:40,839 --> 00:25:41,839
I would like to see that.

521
00:25:41,839 --> 00:25:45,480
But again, if we could maybe kind of firm up this

522
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,710
definition of what it -- because there's a lot of different

523
00:25:47,710 --> 00:25:50,839
ways that we can build bike lanes in Denton.

524
00:25:50,839 --> 00:25:53,720
So if we could maybe provide a clear definition for what

525
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,839
that requirement is, I think that would be helpful.

526
00:25:56,839 --> 00:26:03,269
And my next question, too, again about bikes, it's on the

527
00:26:03,269 --> 00:26:05,839
-- one of the slides where you have the cross-sections

528
00:26:05,839 --> 00:26:06,839
where Commissioner Dudowitz was talking about the --

529
00:26:06,839 --> 00:26:08,839
Yeah, I can go back to that.

530
00:26:08,839 --> 00:26:10,839
The big median there.

531
00:26:10,839 --> 00:26:11,839
Yeah, okay.

532
00:26:11,839 --> 00:26:15,839
So an existing primary arterial.

533
00:26:15,839 --> 00:26:19,839
So I see -- this is kind of our pie-in-the-sky idea.

534
00:26:19,839 --> 00:26:22,509
This is what we'd really like all of our primary arterials

535
00:26:22,509 --> 00:26:23,839
to look like in the city.

536
00:26:23,839 --> 00:26:24,839
Yes.

537
00:26:24,839 --> 00:26:25,839
Right.

538
00:26:25,839 --> 00:26:26,839
And again, where's the bike lane?

539
00:26:26,839 --> 00:26:27,839
And I'm wondering --

540
00:26:27,839 --> 00:26:30,420
That's where, you know, the cross-sections that we have

541
00:26:30,420 --> 00:26:34,839
done, they do include a dedicated bike lane.

542
00:26:34,839 --> 00:26:36,839
Either --

543
00:26:36,839 --> 00:26:38,839
I don't -- but I don't see it here.

544
00:26:38,839 --> 00:26:43,160
-- enlarged sidewalk here or dedicated right here in this

545
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:43,839
area.

546
00:26:43,839 --> 00:26:47,019
So secondary or collector's streets, there are several

547
00:26:47,019 --> 00:26:48,839
options that we came up with.

548
00:26:48,839 --> 00:26:50,839
And I want to run it through the mobility committee.

549
00:26:50,839 --> 00:26:52,839
Do you have slides to show me?

550
00:26:52,839 --> 00:26:53,839
Not here.

551
00:26:53,839 --> 00:26:54,839
Okay.

552
00:26:54,839 --> 00:26:58,609
I did show it to you all, you know, probably two or three

553
00:26:58,609 --> 00:26:58,839
--

554
00:26:58,839 --> 00:26:59,839
It's been a few months ago.

555
00:26:59,839 --> 00:27:00,839
Yeah.

556
00:27:00,839 --> 00:27:01,839
Okay.

557
00:27:01,839 --> 00:27:02,839
Because I was --

558
00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:03,839
I'll be happy to send that to you.

559
00:27:03,839 --> 00:27:04,839
That'd be great.

560
00:27:04,839 --> 00:27:05,839
Thank you.

561
00:27:05,839 --> 00:27:08,490
Because my concern here is with this -- this extra four

562
00:27:08,490 --> 00:27:10,839
feet for this wide outside lane,

563
00:27:10,839 --> 00:27:14,119
that seems like space that could be better used to help

564
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:15,839
move people not in cars.

565
00:27:15,839 --> 00:27:16,839
Yeah.

566
00:27:16,839 --> 00:27:19,880
These lanes markings, you know, the lanes actually go down

567
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:20,839
to 11 feet.

568
00:27:20,839 --> 00:27:22,839
They are not quite 12 and 16.

569
00:27:22,839 --> 00:27:27,839
So that allows for the bike lane to be marked there.

570
00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:29,839
The question is, how do you construct it?

571
00:27:29,839 --> 00:27:32,839
You know, you have that two-foot marking there,

572
00:27:32,839 --> 00:27:35,839
but do you want to actually have a physical barrier?

573
00:27:35,839 --> 00:27:36,839
Right.

574
00:27:36,839 --> 00:27:37,839
And that's what you're talking about with the context.

575
00:27:37,839 --> 00:27:38,839
So --

576
00:27:38,839 --> 00:27:39,839
Sensitive.

577
00:27:39,839 --> 00:27:40,839
Perfect.

578
00:27:40,839 --> 00:27:41,839
Okay.

579
00:27:41,839 --> 00:27:42,839
Okay.

580
00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:43,839
Thank you.

581
00:27:43,839 --> 00:27:44,839
Okay.

582
00:27:44,839 --> 00:27:45,839
Move on.

583
00:27:45,839 --> 00:27:50,829
The other big question that was, you know, came up in the

584
00:27:50,829 --> 00:27:52,839
work session as well as in

585
00:27:52,839 --> 00:27:55,960
the public hearing was the question on the post-hook

586
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:56,839
alignment.

587
00:27:56,839 --> 00:28:00,930
And we got some options that we have brought here today to

588
00:28:00,930 --> 00:28:02,839
get you situated here.

589
00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:04,839
It's Sherman, 428.

590
00:28:04,839 --> 00:28:07,839
Here's the natural preserve right here.

591
00:28:07,839 --> 00:28:11,839
Post-hook comes along right here.

592
00:28:11,839 --> 00:28:16,839
And this is Lakeview and Mayhill Road back here.

593
00:28:16,839 --> 00:28:21,440
So in what you saw before, this was a routing that we

594
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:22,839
showed you.

595
00:28:22,839 --> 00:28:26,759
And we have pulled some numbers, traffic numbers that the

596
00:28:26,759 --> 00:28:28,839
computer model that was done,

597
00:28:28,839 --> 00:28:31,970
that we shared with you in my first presentation, the

598
00:28:31,970 --> 00:28:33,839
computer model was run for the entire

599
00:28:33,839 --> 00:28:39,950
city for the existing condition that we got right now to

600
00:28:39,950 --> 00:28:41,839
see what roads are stressed at

601
00:28:41,839 --> 00:28:45,349
this time and, of course, to calibrate the model because we

602
00:28:45,349 --> 00:28:46,839
went out to 112 different

603
00:28:46,839 --> 00:28:50,099
locations in the city and got the actual traffic data and

604
00:28:50,099 --> 00:28:51,839
calibrated the model to that data.

605
00:28:51,839 --> 00:28:55,059
So once that model was calibrated, that's when we went in

606
00:28:55,059 --> 00:28:56,839
and we took the full mobility

607
00:28:56,839 --> 00:28:58,839
plan and ran the computer model.

608
00:28:58,839 --> 00:29:02,049
So when we ran the model, these are the traffic numbers

609
00:29:02,049 --> 00:29:03,839
that you are seeing coming off of

610
00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:04,839
Sherman.

611
00:29:04,839 --> 00:29:07,619
This is really, you know, Sherman and then people who want

612
00:29:07,619 --> 00:29:08,839
to go from here or coming

613
00:29:08,839 --> 00:29:13,289
from that side, 20,000, here's 25,000 actually going in

614
00:29:13,289 --> 00:29:13,839
here.

615
00:29:13,839 --> 00:29:18,839
So that is the 25,000 coming on post-hook.

616
00:29:18,839 --> 00:29:24,839
One option, here is Cooper Creek Road right here.

617
00:29:24,839 --> 00:29:26,839
And that was, you know, on the mark.

618
00:29:26,839 --> 00:29:30,190
Sometimes out of the box thinking comes from people who

619
00:29:30,190 --> 00:29:32,839
look from different areas and we

620
00:29:32,839 --> 00:29:34,839
get tunnel vision sometimes.

621
00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:36,839
So there are two options.

622
00:29:36,839 --> 00:29:39,839
One is this one right here and one is further north.

623
00:29:39,839 --> 00:29:42,839
This one would run through kind of adjusting development.

624
00:29:42,839 --> 00:29:46,839
This one would bypass all of the development right here.

625
00:29:46,839 --> 00:29:49,220
So this would be going through Greenfield right here in

626
00:29:49,220 --> 00:29:49,839
this area.

627
00:29:49,839 --> 00:29:51,839
A lot easier to manage.

628
00:29:51,839 --> 00:29:54,980
Now, would this be a very high-profile project to put in

629
00:29:54,980 --> 00:29:55,839
right now?

630
00:29:55,839 --> 00:29:57,839
I seriously doubt that.

631
00:29:57,839 --> 00:30:00,839
This part of post-hook is not constructed yet.

632
00:30:00,839 --> 00:30:05,369
From preserve on, all that has to be constructed and right

633
00:30:05,369 --> 00:30:06,839
away obtained.

634
00:30:06,839 --> 00:30:10,160
And money is available to do all that construction, which

635
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,839
would be tens of millions of dollars.

636
00:30:12,839 --> 00:30:15,250
Is the city going to be in a big hurry to come in and add

637
00:30:15,250 --> 00:30:15,839
this in?

638
00:30:15,839 --> 00:30:17,839
Not at this time.

639
00:30:17,839 --> 00:30:19,839
We've got lots and lots of projects.

640
00:30:19,839 --> 00:30:23,150
When I bring the numbers to you on road impact fees, you

641
00:30:23,150 --> 00:30:25,839
will see what is the current need

642
00:30:25,839 --> 00:30:27,839
and what is the projected need in 10 years.

643
00:30:27,839 --> 00:30:29,839
This one will be a very low priority right now.

644
00:30:29,839 --> 00:30:34,140
But for the mobility plan, with your blessing, you know, we

645
00:30:34,140 --> 00:30:37,839
can go and take this option.

646
00:30:37,839 --> 00:30:41,049
One of the benefits of this option, when we cross the creek

647
00:30:41,049 --> 00:30:43,839
right here, this is a shorter

648
00:30:43,839 --> 00:30:45,839
floodplain area to cross.

649
00:30:45,839 --> 00:30:50,049
So shorter bridge, cheaper cost versus right here, much

650
00:30:50,049 --> 00:30:50,839
longer bridge.

651
00:30:50,839 --> 00:30:52,839
So much more cost here on that.

652
00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:59,839
So this was a good thing that came out of it.

653
00:30:59,839 --> 00:31:02,099
But the traffic is going to be -- but this is a built-cond

654
00:31:02,099 --> 00:31:02,839
ition traffic.

655
00:31:02,839 --> 00:31:03,839
Keep that in mind.

656
00:31:03,839 --> 00:31:09,839
There's a built-out based on the land use plan done by WRT.

657
00:31:09,839 --> 00:31:14,839
That's a traffic generation.

658
00:31:14,839 --> 00:31:15,839
Commissioner Bruegel.

659
00:31:15,839 --> 00:31:16,839
Thank you, Chair.

660
00:31:16,839 --> 00:31:20,839
So you talk about how it crosses a much shorter floodplain

661
00:31:20,839 --> 00:31:22,839
with this option to the west.

662
00:31:22,839 --> 00:31:25,829
Why then would you route it to the east to continue along,

663
00:31:25,829 --> 00:31:26,839
skirting that floodplain?

664
00:31:26,839 --> 00:31:29,880
Why not just continue north and maybe connect it with -- I

665
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,839
don't know what that green road is up at the top there.

666
00:31:32,839 --> 00:31:35,740
But it seems like that crosses a lot less -- yeah, there's

667
00:31:35,740 --> 00:31:37,839
a road up there on the north side.

668
00:31:37,839 --> 00:31:42,839
Why wouldn't you go -- are there developments in that?

669
00:31:42,839 --> 00:31:43,839
Yeah, there are.

670
00:31:43,839 --> 00:31:45,839
Commissioner Rosale.

671
00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:46,839
Thank you, Chair.

672
00:31:46,839 --> 00:31:49,839
That directly above it is Elm Fork or Elm Bottom.

673
00:31:49,839 --> 00:31:50,839
It's an L shape.

674
00:31:50,839 --> 00:31:52,839
This is floodplain right here.

675
00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:56,549
And there -- all along that is 20-acre plots of residential

676
00:31:56,549 --> 00:32:00,839
homes that are kind of ranch-style properties right there.

677
00:32:00,839 --> 00:32:04,900
So I think going directly north would jeopardize those

678
00:32:04,900 --> 00:32:07,839
residences kind of country living.

679
00:32:07,839 --> 00:32:10,180
If you could bypass that to the right, it might be less

680
00:32:10,180 --> 00:32:10,839
invasive.

681
00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:11,839
Come down this way.

682
00:32:11,839 --> 00:32:12,839
Okay.

683
00:32:12,839 --> 00:32:17,839
Thank you.

684
00:32:17,839 --> 00:32:22,160
So post-walk is an important route because it does allow

685
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,839
for people coming down Sherman,

686
00:32:24,839 --> 00:32:30,789
they want to go to this part of town, it will let them do

687
00:32:30,789 --> 00:32:31,839
that.

688
00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:35,480
And also it will allow -- because Mayhill Road, if you

689
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,839
recall from the model run, it may be hard,

690
00:32:38,839 --> 00:32:42,970
the sections of Mayhill Road that are going to be LOS

691
00:32:42,970 --> 00:32:45,839
pretty low with all the traffic.

692
00:32:45,839 --> 00:32:49,839
If you don't have post-walk, you know, to help it out.

693
00:32:49,839 --> 00:32:55,839
That way people can make a choice to go on post-walk road.

694
00:32:55,839 --> 00:32:57,839
Thank you.

695
00:32:57,839 --> 00:32:58,839
Commissioner Detowes.

696
00:32:58,839 --> 00:33:02,819
People coming from the north, they're going to come down

697
00:33:02,819 --> 00:33:03,839
that road.

698
00:33:03,839 --> 00:33:07,630
But I'm thinking that that western route and where they

699
00:33:07,630 --> 00:33:10,539
would branch off and come east instead of going down May

700
00:33:10,539 --> 00:33:10,839
hill,

701
00:33:10,839 --> 00:33:13,519
these people are either going to come into Denton or going

702
00:33:13,519 --> 00:33:15,839
to continue down Mayhill to link up with 35.

703
00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:17,839
And that's the plan for Mayhill.

704
00:33:17,839 --> 00:33:20,839
So I'm curious of why you're branching out and linking to

705
00:33:20,839 --> 00:33:24,839
post-walk there because post-walk is going to go back into

706
00:33:24,839 --> 00:33:25,839
development areas

707
00:33:25,839 --> 00:33:27,839
and eventually get to 35.

708
00:33:27,839 --> 00:33:31,900
But the shortest route to get to 35 from up there is down

709
00:33:31,900 --> 00:33:32,839
Mayhill.

710
00:33:32,839 --> 00:33:36,640
But that is where you know Mayhill itself is going to be a

711
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:37,839
choke point.

712
00:33:37,839 --> 00:33:41,480
There is going to be -- based on the LOS we see, further

713
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:43,839
down there's way too much traffic on it.

714
00:33:43,839 --> 00:33:45,839
So we need a reliever.

715
00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:49,539
And the post-walk is currently designated as one of the

716
00:33:49,539 --> 00:33:52,839
arterial streets coming from preserve area.

717
00:33:52,839 --> 00:33:56,089
And all we are doing is allowing this to continue to take

718
00:33:56,089 --> 00:33:57,839
that load off of Mayhill.

719
00:33:57,839 --> 00:33:58,839
Sure.

720
00:33:58,839 --> 00:34:01,160
And all I'm suggesting is that some of us take the least

721
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,839
resistant route and would rather go straight down Mayhill

722
00:34:03,839 --> 00:34:04,839
to get to 35.

723
00:34:04,839 --> 00:34:08,510
So as you've suggested, some of us drive and we know these

724
00:34:08,510 --> 00:34:11,519
things to bring forward some ideas and some other options

725
00:34:11,519 --> 00:34:11,840
to make --

726
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,960
And then people when they -- when we're talking about 30,

727
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,710
40, 50 years down the road, you know, to make this happen

728
00:34:17,710 --> 00:34:17,840
--

729
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:18,840
Well, you're going to have -- Mayhill --

730
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,280
And they will know after they drive two times during that

731
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,840
time, they will know, hey, I need to go on this road.

732
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:24,840
Sure.

733
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:25,840
Well, understand.

734
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,840
But 30 or 40 years from now, we'll see, right?

735
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:29,840
Yes, sir.

736
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,280
And these -- you know, these -- as we go through the impact

737
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,670
free process, by state law, every five years we have to

738
00:34:34,670 --> 00:34:35,840
come back and update.

739
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:40,099
So this is not something drawn in rock and it ain't going

740
00:34:40,099 --> 00:34:41,840
to move from there.

741
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:42,840
Sure.

742
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,840
Commissioner Rosl.

743
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:45,840
Thank you.

744
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,119
The idea behind the post oak would be to have a north-south

745
00:34:50,119 --> 00:34:52,840
corridor from 35 up to Shurm.

746
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:53,840
Is that correct?

747
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:54,840
Yes.

748
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:55,840
That's the intent?

749
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:56,840
Yeah.

750
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:58,670
And the preserve, as you can see, is very congested already

751
00:34:58,670 --> 00:34:58,840
.

752
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,840
They have very limited ways to get to the town.

753
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,840
So this allows them to, you know, come through.

754
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,840
Lakeview, Willowwater is supposed to come through there.

755
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,190
But it didn't happen because I was going through a

756
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:11,840
neighborhood and they were in strong opposition.

757
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:16,199
So city decided to move that from there and move to post

758
00:35:16,199 --> 00:35:16,840
oak.

759
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,219
So one of my questions is -- we talked about it previously

760
00:35:20,219 --> 00:35:24,110
-- is if the intent is to, one, eliminate some traffic and,

761
00:35:24,110 --> 00:35:29,840
two, expedite travel north-south would be ideal,

762
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,840
although this goes west, then north, then back east.

763
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,619
And so I'd be interested to see if Kimley-Horn could maybe

764
00:35:37,619 --> 00:35:39,840
estimate time, travel time.

765
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:40,840
Yeah.

766
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:41,840
And we'll get back to you on that.

767
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:42,840
Okay.

768
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,840
If there's a significant difference.

769
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:45,840
Okay.

770
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,449
And we'll get back to you on that either through email or

771
00:35:48,449 --> 00:35:51,139
when I come back in the public hearing process, we'll

772
00:35:51,139 --> 00:35:52,840
provide you that information.

773
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:53,840
Okay.

774
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:58,840
Okay.

775
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:04,349
After that, what I'm going to do is get out of this one

776
00:36:04,349 --> 00:36:07,840
PowerPoint and show you a map.

777
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,840
I think I have it right here.

778
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:10,840
Yeah.

779
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:11,840
Right here.

780
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:20,840
And on the west side of town, right now, it's pasture land.

781
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:22,840
Not a whole lot out there at this time.

782
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,840
You know, it's not densely populated in any way.

783
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:32,340
The majority of the roads that we are seeing there are the

784
00:36:32,340 --> 00:36:37,250
ones that are at least on the southwest part are what is

785
00:36:37,250 --> 00:36:42,530
approved by the PNG and the council for the master plan

786
00:36:42,530 --> 00:36:44,840
communities of Cold Ranch and Hunter Ranch.

787
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,389
All these roads that you see right here, all of these in

788
00:36:49,389 --> 00:36:53,840
this color, they're all approved by the council.

789
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:55,840
We cannot change that.

790
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,409
Only time these roads will change is when these

791
00:36:59,409 --> 00:37:01,840
developments actually start platting.

792
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,800
And now that we have a computer model, some of the roads

793
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,530
you see here are actually way more than the traffic

794
00:37:07,530 --> 00:37:08,840
generation there.

795
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:09,840
That is the model is showing.

796
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:11,840
Primary arterials don't need to be primary arterials.

797
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,840
They could do a secondary arterial.

798
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,480
Some of those will change, and we can at that time look at

799
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,260
some alignment changes to see if we can have further north-

800
00:37:21,260 --> 00:37:23,840
south connectivity at that time.

801
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:24,840
There are some issues.

802
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,840
We have Hickory Creek.

803
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,840
We have the airport right here.

804
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:34,099
Those are major, you know, stumbling blocks to put major

805
00:37:34,099 --> 00:37:35,840
connectivity.

806
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:41,300
You can see this came about from our traffic guys, the ones

807
00:37:41,300 --> 00:37:43,840
who travel in this area.

808
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,840
They said, hey, this is one clear shot we got.

809
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,599
Let's put that one in there so that we have a north-south

810
00:37:48,599 --> 00:37:49,840
connectivity here.

811
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:51,840
There's not that much traffic.

812
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,050
But if somebody wanted to go all the way out here to 380,

813
00:37:56,050 --> 00:37:59,840
they could get on that road and get out there and do it.

814
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,530
One option that we did look at is the Seawolf, and I will

815
00:38:03,530 --> 00:38:05,840
show you that slide, I guess.

816
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,840
Maybe not.

817
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,610
We did extend this road out up to this point, and we need

818
00:38:11,610 --> 00:38:13,840
to change this map to show it.

819
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:18,789
So this Seawolf road currently stops right here on Jim

820
00:38:18,789 --> 00:38:22,840
Crystal, right, and it will then go up to 380.

821
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,840
So we'll have -- there's an existing property right here.

822
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:27,840
So we'll have to work around that.

823
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,320
But we will show that as part of the project, as part of

824
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:32,840
the mobility plan.

825
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,480
So that will allow, you know, all the way north-south

826
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:37,840
connectivity here.

827
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:39,840
This is the arterial.

828
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:40,840
This one is not.

829
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,840
This is a collector's street.

830
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:49,230
Then beyond that, there's not a whole lot at this time that

831
00:38:49,230 --> 00:38:53,840
we have option until these guys start coming in and start,

832
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,840
you know, planting properties out there.

833
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:02,329
And this happens to be a gated community right here in Rob

834
00:39:02,329 --> 00:39:03,840
eson Ranch.

835
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:05,840
We are showing this connection.

836
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:07,840
Who knows?

837
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,849
In 20 years down the road, it is still a gated community or

838
00:39:11,849 --> 00:39:12,840
what it is.

839
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,840
So we'll see.

840
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:20,329
This is the Robeson Ranch Boulevard that goes -- spine road

841
00:39:20,329 --> 00:39:23,840
that goes through the Robeson community.

842
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,840
That is the main entry right here.

843
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,840
And it runs this way here.

844
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,659
And we did -- as you can see, we provided a lot of

845
00:39:33,659 --> 00:39:34,840
connectivity.

846
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,280
This is based on our traffic guys being out there every day

847
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,840
, our street guys out there every day.

848
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,179
And they brought all these issues that were given to the

849
00:39:44,179 --> 00:39:46,840
consultant to add all these connections here.

850
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,480
And they all came about because of the traffic guys, all of

851
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,840
these connections you see right here.

852
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:57,840
And then, of course, these are new annexed areas that city

853
00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:58,840
has now.

854
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,969
So those were put in based on the traffic generation that

855
00:40:01,969 --> 00:40:04,539
came out of the computer model as to what collector streets

856
00:40:04,539 --> 00:40:06,840
we need and what our trail streets we need.

857
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:15,840
And provide connectivity to Hills of Denton and to 35.

858
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:20,750
So there is one option that we had I want to show you,

859
00:40:20,750 --> 00:40:22,840
pretty expensive.

860
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:27,840
Here's the PowerPoint.

861
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:28,840
This one right here.

862
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,840
This is 1830 right here.

863
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:36,059
And this is going to be a very expensive option to find a

864
00:40:36,059 --> 00:40:39,230
way to connect the west side of town to the east side of

865
00:40:39,230 --> 00:40:39,840
town.

866
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,840
And this is 2181 right here.

867
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,840
So that would be a major bridge crossing.

868
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:51,650
And a lot of property purchase and one bridge here and a

869
00:40:51,650 --> 00:40:54,840
major bridge here at this place.

870
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,739
My suggestion would be to kind of leave it out right now

871
00:40:57,739 --> 00:40:59,840
and five years down the road maybe.

872
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:04,500
You want to think about it, we can bring it back to take a

873
00:41:04,500 --> 00:41:06,840
look at it a little more.

874
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,840
If you want it, I can put that in there.

875
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:16,090
Then we have to add that cost and our impact fee cost

876
00:41:16,090 --> 00:41:17,840
calculation.

877
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:18,840
Commissioner Taylor.

878
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:19,840
Yes sir.

879
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:20,840
Thank you chair.

880
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,969
Could you return to the map with barriers you had up just a

881
00:41:23,969 --> 00:41:24,840
moment ago?

882
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:25,840
Which one?

883
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:34,900
The city wide map with barriers that showed the airport and

884
00:41:34,900 --> 00:41:36,840
so forth.

885
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,840
Could you scroll down to that very southern portion?

886
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:45,780
I've been looking at this map for quite a while and trying

887
00:41:45,780 --> 00:41:46,840
to identify.

888
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:51,500
With Hickory Creek you have this mile wide barrier from out

889
00:41:51,500 --> 00:41:55,840
west of the airport all the way to Lake Louisville.

890
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,840
Half mile to mile wide depending exactly where it is.

891
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,860
And I think it's in a 13 mile stretch there are five roads

892
00:42:02,860 --> 00:42:03,840
that cross it.

893
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:10,840
35, Fort Worth drive, Country Club Road, 2499.

894
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,840
I think there's one more tucked in there.

895
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,659
And if there's anything wrong on any of those points you

896
00:42:17,659 --> 00:42:20,840
end up with an eight or ten mile detour around.

897
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:25,769
And unfortunately I don't know what the cure is if you go

898
00:42:25,769 --> 00:42:28,840
just a little bit further east.

899
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,099
Yeah so like in this area here and that's where you were

900
00:42:32,099 --> 00:42:35,840
drawing in the connection from 1830 over to Teasley.

901
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:36,840
Yeah right further down here.

902
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,159
Yeah well further east as well like the one on Fort Worth

903
00:42:39,159 --> 00:42:39,840
drive right now.

904
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:40,840
Yeah exactly.

905
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,449
So I think this is going to be one of the big challenges if

906
00:42:45,449 --> 00:42:45,840
.

907
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:46,840
To right here.

908
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:51,360
Yeah as Denton grows south that's going to cut off a third

909
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,840
of our land mass from the rest of the city basically.

910
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,889
And the routing you know whenever the design is done the

911
00:42:57,889 --> 00:42:59,840
routing these are already homes already here.

912
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:00,840
Yeah.

913
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:01,840
So you can't get in there.

914
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,679
That's why it pushed it further back this way to tie in

915
00:43:04,679 --> 00:43:05,840
here in this area.

916
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,469
And I definitely understand there are a ton of barriers

917
00:43:08,469 --> 00:43:10,840
between the railroad and the neighborhoods.

918
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,760
We can put that connection in you know so we can leave it

919
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:16,840
there in the mobility plan.

920
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,349
And that will be part of the cash calculation in our impact

921
00:43:20,349 --> 00:43:20,840
fee.

922
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,650
It will slightly affect it's going to be a small part of

923
00:43:24,650 --> 00:43:26,840
the total cost in that area.

924
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:28,840
So I don't see that being a real issue.

925
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:32,059
Well and I'm not necessarily advocating for putting a road

926
00:43:32,059 --> 00:43:33,840
in that we probably won't build.

927
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,349
It's just that this is going to be an issue you know in the

928
00:43:36,349 --> 00:43:37,840
next 10, 20 years.

929
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,840
And there aren't very many options because.

930
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:42,949
It may be a placeholder right now if you put that in it may

931
00:43:42,949 --> 00:43:43,840
be a placeholder.

932
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,920
And as people look at this a little bit more there may be

933
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,840
better ideas come in.

934
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,840
I have a question to kind of piggyback.

935
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,920
Why can't you connect Hickory Creek over because obviously

936
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,840
that's a much shorter connection.

937
00:43:58,840 --> 00:43:59,840
I'm sorry.

938
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,840
Up above Hickory Creek and just continue going west.

939
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:04,840
The Hickory Creek Road right here.

940
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,840
Yes.

941
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,840
This is the back and this used to run like this.

942
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,519
We changed the alignment so it comes back this way to tie

943
00:44:14,519 --> 00:44:18,840
into country club road right here.

944
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,840
If it goes straight there's not just a floodplain there.

945
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:22,840
There's an actually.

946
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:23,840
Yeah you can see right here actually you can see that.

947
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:24,840
That's a creek.

948
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:25,840
Yeah.

949
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:26,840
It's all floodplain.

950
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:27,840
You can't get straight over.

951
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:28,840
It's all floodplain.

952
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:29,840
In fact there was a development coming there.

953
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:30,840
That's a bad intersection too right now.

954
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:32,840
Because you're up at a 45 degree angle.

955
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:34,840
Yeah lots of accidents there.

956
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,099
So this is where we changed the alignment to get out of the

957
00:44:37,099 --> 00:44:37,840
floodplain area.

958
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,840
So you can actually really build this road here.

959
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:41,840
Because this is needed.

960
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:47,829
You can see the traffic and the volumes right here on this

961
00:44:47,829 --> 00:44:48,840
road.

962
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,800
And we're putting in developments north and south of that

963
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:55,840
or mostly north of that up to Ryan Road.

964
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,550
Yeah and there was a development that was coming in you

965
00:44:59,550 --> 00:45:04,130
know on along here and we were right here actually in this

966
00:45:04,130 --> 00:45:04,840
area.

967
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,699
And we had as part of the DRC process exacted the right of

968
00:45:08,699 --> 00:45:12,840
way but it didn't go through the full planning process.

969
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:13,840
It fell through.

970
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:18,349
Otherwise that portion would have already been established

971
00:45:18,349 --> 00:45:19,840
the right of way.

972
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:20,840
Commissioner Rossell.

973
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:21,840
Thank you.

974
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,480
You mentioned that if we put on the books this potential

975
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:25,840
bridge.

976
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:27,840
Connections right here.

977
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:28,840
Right.

978
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,840
You said that that would impact fees.

979
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:39,059
Actually you know when we saw road impact fees as I

980
00:45:39,059 --> 00:45:41,840
mentioned before we have five service areas.

981
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:44,840
It will be in one of the service areas this part.

982
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,480
So then we have to add that cost of construction of that

983
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,769
road to the pool of money for all the road projects to be

984
00:45:51,769 --> 00:45:53,840
done in that service area.

985
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,760
But it could be it could hold a low priority even though it

986
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:57,840
's on the books.

987
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,150
Low priority but impact fees are calculated based on the

988
00:46:01,150 --> 00:46:03,840
total construction cost that we'll have.

989
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,840
But over a 10 year window how much of that is needed.

990
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,690
And we will go through that process when we come back for

991
00:46:09,690 --> 00:46:12,840
when you work as a capital improvement advisory committee.

992
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:14,840
Which hopefully will be very soon.

993
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:19,940
I'm hoping that this will get done here so we can get

994
00:46:19,940 --> 00:46:22,840
started on that process.

995
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:23,840
Commissioner Bruegel.

996
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:24,840
Thank you chair.

997
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,690
Follow up with all of this so PS I heard you say that we

998
00:46:27,690 --> 00:46:29,840
maybe don't have to add this in now.

999
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,750
We can maybe look at it in five years or 10 years and add

1000
00:46:32,750 --> 00:46:33,840
it at that point.

1001
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:35,840
We can.

1002
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,440
And I agree with Commissioner Taylor there's no sense in

1003
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,000
adding this to the mobility plan if we're not planning on

1004
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:41,840
building it.

1005
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,840
But you know we all know Denton is growing very quickly.

1006
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,650
Are we going to be boxed into another more expensive option

1007
00:46:48,650 --> 00:46:50,860
in five or 10 years because a lot of our growth is

1008
00:46:50,860 --> 00:46:51,840
happening in the south.

1009
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:52,840
I mean is it better for us to just.

1010
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:54,840
And you're right about that.

1011
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:56,840
Just bite the bullet now and just go for it or.

1012
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:01,260
And you will see that the impact fees that we calculate are

1013
00:47:01,260 --> 00:47:02,840
here need.

1014
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:07,289
What all the cities are adopting is here compared to what

1015
00:47:07,289 --> 00:47:08,840
the real cost is.

1016
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:13,139
So even if the cost goes up it's not going to make much

1017
00:47:13,139 --> 00:47:14,840
difference there.

1018
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,550
Well I'm just because I'm just concerned like well maybe we

1019
00:47:17,550 --> 00:47:20,110
don't do it now because it is going to cost more but isn't

1020
00:47:20,110 --> 00:47:22,840
it going to cost more in 10 years when we have to now.

1021
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:22,840
Yes.

1022
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:26,280
Come up with a bigger bridge and come up with you know buy

1023
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:27,840
more right away from.

1024
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,639
If we show it then at least it allows us to start getting

1025
00:47:30,639 --> 00:47:32,840
right away as a development comes in.

1026
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,480
Then our D.R.C. engineers look at that say we have this

1027
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:37,840
road going through.

1028
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,659
We need to exact right away from this or we need to reserve

1029
00:47:40,659 --> 00:47:41,840
right away from it.

1030
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:43,840
Thank you.

1031
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:44,840
Commissioner Roselle.

1032
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:45,840
Thank you.

1033
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:49,400
So I believe we're voting on this next meeting in the

1034
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:50,840
public hearing next.

1035
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,530
How do we provide you direction officially to put that in

1036
00:47:53,530 --> 00:47:56,099
the mobility for us to vote when I bring it to the public

1037
00:47:56,099 --> 00:47:56,840
hearing.

1038
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:57,840
I already showed that.

1039
00:47:57,840 --> 00:47:57,840
OK.

1040
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,690
So you'll vote on what is actually we don't need to vote

1041
00:48:00,690 --> 00:48:02,840
now for you to add that to the motion.

1042
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:04,840
But you're not.

1043
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:05,840
Yeah.

1044
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:06,840
How do we agree.

1045
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,860
You can give me direction that you want to add that word

1046
00:48:09,860 --> 00:48:11,840
there and we will go down that.

1047
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:12,840
OK.

1048
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,050
So when you were during the public hearing process then you

1049
00:48:16,050 --> 00:48:18,840
'll be voting on what is in front of you at that time.

1050
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,840
Could could we see.

1051
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:21,840
Grisham Bruegel.

1052
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:22,840
Pardon me.

1053
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:23,840
Thank you chair.

1054
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:28,840
Could we see maybe both options.

1055
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,159
Are we I mean I guess council is really the one that's

1056
00:48:31,159 --> 00:48:33,340
going to be looking at the bottom line and the money of all

1057
00:48:33,340 --> 00:48:33,840
of this.

1058
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:42,269
Yeah but council has already gone through the mobility plan

1059
00:48:42,269 --> 00:48:42,840
and.

1060
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,840
What.

1061
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:48,840
Yeah OK.

1062
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,159
I think maybe I'd like to see it presented maybe both ways

1063
00:48:51,159 --> 00:48:53,389
so we would have a couple of different options to choose

1064
00:48:53,389 --> 00:48:53,840
from.

1065
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:54,840
Sure.

1066
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:55,840
At our public hearing next week.

1067
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:59,710
Would you like me to then in the same way and show this

1068
00:48:59,710 --> 00:49:03,760
also to options on the Cooper Creek side so that you can

1069
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,840
vote on option A or option B.

1070
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:13,840
Where we come in if I can get to that and not so much.

1071
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:14,840
Right.

1072
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:16,840
Further back.

1073
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,920
Yeah I think that would be I think that would be helpful as

1074
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,030
we're making our as we're making our motions next week to

1075
00:49:23,030 --> 00:49:23,840
say you know.

1076
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,659
I'm not sure that I'm sorry this recommend this with option

1077
00:49:26,659 --> 00:49:29,190
this or option that and it would just I think it make it

1078
00:49:29,190 --> 00:49:31,840
easier for the record as we're as we're voting.

1079
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:32,840
Thank you.

1080
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,539
So that way gives you the option to go to option two on the

1081
00:49:36,539 --> 00:49:40,320
Cooper Creek Roadside and sort of the option one and then

1082
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,840
that way I take it to the council.

1083
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,480
That's what you voted on and same thing on the south

1084
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,139
connection the connection of the east and west on the south

1085
00:49:50,139 --> 00:49:50,840
side.

1086
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:51,840
Commissioner Taylor.

1087
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:57,300
Thank you chair is just a career informal poll of the

1088
00:49:57,300 --> 00:50:02,380
commission as far as this the south road to old Alton the

1089
00:50:02,380 --> 00:50:03,840
old Alton connector if you will.

1090
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,650
Does everybody think that's a good idea or a bad idea to

1091
00:50:06,650 --> 00:50:09,440
add just so we just so we have an idea like I'm like I said

1092
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,239
I'm not strongly for or against I just want to see what a

1093
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:13,840
reals thinks.

1094
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:16,840
You know.

1095
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:21,840
Commissioner back.

1096
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,840
But keep it in.

1097
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:28,550
You know we don't necessarily if we build it they will come

1098
00:50:28,550 --> 00:50:32,010
you know we don't know if that's going to work but being

1099
00:50:32,010 --> 00:50:35,650
there does in and we're suggesting that they are going to

1100
00:50:35,650 --> 00:50:38,630
expand south here that just has to put in the door for

1101
00:50:38,630 --> 00:50:40,840
Sarah I would be for just keeping it on.

1102
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,059
What it does for you for the city is if it is shown there,

1103
00:50:44,059 --> 00:50:47,369
then during the development process if the development

1104
00:50:47,369 --> 00:50:50,750
comes in, then over the RC engineers look at the mobility

1105
00:50:50,750 --> 00:50:54,110
plan, and they see this road there and say hey, this road

1106
00:50:54,110 --> 00:50:55,840
is going through.

1107
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,840
We need to reserve this much right away.

1108
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,820
And as part of the then as well then they'll exact the

1109
00:51:02,820 --> 00:51:07,500
dollars for the impact fee. And those dollars that impact

1110
00:51:07,500 --> 00:51:11,960
for dollars can be used to purchase that right away in that

1111
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:12,840
area.

1112
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,880
So that it does give some, you know some flexibility for

1113
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:16,840
the long term.

1114
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:18,840
Commissioner that's good.

1115
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:23,289
Thank you, Chair. Should we go back to that map again, the

1116
00:51:23,289 --> 00:51:25,840
overview, please, sir.

1117
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:31,400
I'm just curious, with respect to the airport. Where's

1118
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,840
Peter bill target distribution so on so forth.

1119
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:36,840
Further back here.

1120
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:41,840
A little bit would be here target is right in this area.

1121
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,840
Fasten all is along here.

1122
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:46,840
For the south.

1123
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:48,840
Yeah, yeah.

1124
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:54,510
So, currently, the only way to get it and correct me where

1125
00:51:54,510 --> 00:51:59,099
I'm wrong. There's that little bridge near victory

1126
00:51:59,099 --> 00:52:01,840
equipment to get over 35 w.

1127
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:03,840
Is that. Are you following me.

1128
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,800
Let me allow this for you so we can see it a little better.

1129
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,840
You're correct. Little bitty. Yeah. Yeah.

1130
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:14,789
And so, is there, is there a plan in here to make a better

1131
00:52:14,789 --> 00:52:19,329
way to get to 35 w or a better way, because I just

1132
00:52:19,329 --> 00:52:23,840
anticipate that area growing substantially.

1133
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,840
There's access from 2499 from the south.

1134
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:32,139
They turn it to target and everything from target so if you

1135
00:52:32,139 --> 00:52:32,840
had south.

1136
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:36,480
So if you're going into the airport and take a left right

1137
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,840
that first street that hits, it goes down and hits 2499.

1138
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,840
Sometimes it's closed because of crossing.

1139
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:50,840
Yeah, that happened in April when we had crazy.

1140
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,389
That's when I was there and I actually saw it. But you can

1141
00:52:54,389 --> 00:52:57,239
see the, the, you see where the brown roads are down the

1142
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,840
bottom left that connects up to airport road.

1143
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:05,789
Okay, so there's 2499 or airport road would get you to the

1144
00:53:05,789 --> 00:53:06,840
airport.

1145
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:10,840
Yes, but so that being said, I have a question.

1146
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:17,230
Can you think. Yeah, thank you. Do you think that is a good

1147
00:53:17,230 --> 00:53:20,539
solution. So assuming that area grows assuming the airport

1148
00:53:20,539 --> 00:53:23,969
grows, assuming more corporations go out there, assume the

1149
00:53:23,969 --> 00:53:26,840
economic development is pushing more companies out there.

1150
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:29,860
Will that hold, because I'm trying to tell you when I drive

1151
00:53:29,860 --> 00:53:33,230
to Peterville, and it's that one lane winding around, it's,

1152
00:53:33,230 --> 00:53:36,840
it's, it seems miserable, and I'm not out there that often.

1153
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,659
And you have X amount of workers that are going that same

1154
00:53:40,659 --> 00:53:44,269
route that same time of day. It's very predictable and they

1155
00:53:44,269 --> 00:53:47,099
're all year, what two three shifts means you got a two Jill

1156
00:53:47,099 --> 00:53:49,840
ian cars going down this road, all at the same time.

1157
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:51,840
That's when you see this connection right here.

1158
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:53,840
Okay, pause connection.

1159
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,840
This is not there right now.

1160
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:59,840
There's a new proposed connection that we put in there.

1161
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:03,150
That's where you can see the traffic over 13,000 vehicle

1162
00:54:03,150 --> 00:54:04,840
trips in a built out condition.

1163
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,730
Right, the quarter already built, and it was done by peer

1164
00:54:07,730 --> 00:54:09,840
less manufacturing when they came in.

1165
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:14,460
As part of that overall project, the quarter road, and then

1166
00:54:14,460 --> 00:54:18,909
target came in. So, I'm trying to recall, did the whole

1167
00:54:18,909 --> 00:54:23,840
section built or did we build the 25 foot on the quarter?

1168
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:25,840
The whole thing got built.

1169
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:31,369
Well, okay, so orient me though, because the road, the two

1170
00:54:31,369 --> 00:54:36,599
lane road that goes to the airport and Peterbilt, where is

1171
00:54:36,599 --> 00:54:39,840
that the two lane road out there.

1172
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:44,019
That's it. There is a project, you know, being put together

1173
00:54:44,019 --> 00:54:47,059
on a little bit higher priority right now to fund

1174
00:54:47,059 --> 00:54:48,840
construction of this road.

1175
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:55,409
Yes. To how many lanes? Because there is more traffic on it

1176
00:54:55,409 --> 00:54:56,840
. There's a lot of new development that has come in.

1177
00:54:56,840 --> 00:55:00,900
And it is especially during peak hours in the morning and

1178
00:55:00,900 --> 00:55:01,840
evening.

1179
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:05,840
It is a issue. Yeah. Yes. But if I may.

1180
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:10,050
You bet. So I'm asking you to though help me understand,

1181
00:55:10,050 --> 00:55:14,250
even if the road is wider, and you're feeding a two lane

1182
00:55:14,250 --> 00:55:14,840
bridge.

1183
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:19,840
Which two lane bridge are you talking about? Over I-35W.

1184
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:24,840
I-35W. And that seems expensive to build a new bridge

1185
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,840
versus a better way to get to I-35.

1186
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:32,769
We have to see, you know, what the plans for I-35W are here

1187
00:55:32,769 --> 00:55:33,840
in this area.

1188
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:36,280
Because Tech Start would have some plans, and city

1189
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,989
engineering department is going to coordinate the

1190
00:55:38,989 --> 00:55:40,840
construction of this road with I-35W.

1191
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:46,840
Future. Okay. Also I have a few comments.

1192
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:48,829
Thank you, Commissioner Detowitz, who's next. Thank you.

1193
00:55:48,829 --> 00:55:49,840
And I agree.

1194
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:53,699
What we're talking about is a north, or for these

1195
00:55:53,699 --> 00:55:55,840
facilities to go south.

1196
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,019
The problem is we have people coming and living in debt and

1197
00:55:59,019 --> 00:56:02,840
want to get to work and those trucks that want to go north.

1198
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:07,550
And it's a cluster right there. So yeah, we need to think

1199
00:56:07,550 --> 00:56:11,510
about that north and east intersection and make it wide

1200
00:56:11,510 --> 00:56:12,840
enough for people to get around.

1201
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:16,199
Because it's not very good. And Apogee Stadium is not too

1202
00:56:16,199 --> 00:56:20,289
far away. And during game times and university events, it's

1203
00:56:20,289 --> 00:56:22,840
quite congested there.

1204
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,409
So Tech Start does have, you know, I mean, right now I don

1205
00:56:25,409 --> 00:56:27,840
't know where they are in terms of their planning.

1206
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:32,969
35E itself, you know, they have a lot of work done. This

1207
00:56:32,969 --> 00:56:33,840
one is a little further down.

1208
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:37,840
But yes, it's one of the projects they got for expansion.

1209
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,380
Commissioner Taylor. Thank you, Chair. I'd also like to

1210
00:56:40,380 --> 00:56:44,510
point out, can you scroll north just a short distance there

1211
00:56:44,510 --> 00:56:44,840
?

1212
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:49,119
So, you know, Western Center, or Western Boulevard was

1213
00:56:49,119 --> 00:56:51,840
built six years ago. Yeah.

1214
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,480
And this other north-south connector that comes right next

1215
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:58,840
to Peterbilt did not connect through five years ago.

1216
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:03,119
So Airport Road used to be the only way in and out. And so

1217
00:57:03,119 --> 00:57:05,840
now there is a way for at least for northbound traffic.

1218
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,320
You can take Western Boulevard up to Jim Crystal or you can

1219
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:12,840
go all the way up to you will eventually go up to 380.

1220
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:17,030
So that's really show this connection here continuing. Yeah

1221
00:57:17,030 --> 00:57:19,489
. And this area is much improved over what it was 10 years

1222
00:57:19,489 --> 00:57:19,840
ago.

1223
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:23,170
10 years ago Airport Road was the only way in and out to,

1224
00:57:23,170 --> 00:57:29,380
you know, Tetra Pak, Peterbilt, Fastenal, Victor, the wareh

1225
00:57:29,380 --> 00:57:31,840
ousing across from Victor.

1226
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,969
You know, so now there are already three or four other kind

1227
00:57:34,969 --> 00:57:38,039
of outlets. And it used to be when I worked at Peterbilt,

1228
00:57:38,039 --> 00:57:40,840
95% of the traffic went east.

1229
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,730
And now it's almost a 50/50 split because people have found

1230
00:57:43,730 --> 00:57:45,840
they can find a different way to 380.

1231
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:50,099
They can find a different way to Jim Crystal. So it is

1232
00:57:50,099 --> 00:57:54,070
better than it was. And I think it's getting better all the

1233
00:57:54,070 --> 00:57:54,840
time.

1234
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:55,840
Commissioner Hatchbeth.

1235
00:57:55,840 --> 00:58:00,050
Yeah. So I have a question for Mr. Taylor. Having walked

1236
00:58:00,050 --> 00:58:06,389
the walk, do you find this sufficient to meet growing needs

1237
00:58:06,389 --> 00:58:06,840
?

1238
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:10,230
And again, and I think so we're looking at five-year block,

1239
00:58:10,230 --> 00:58:10,840
right?

1240
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,360
So I'm hoping again that we get new businesses and we're

1241
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:16,539
saying, hey, here's Target, here's Tetra Pak, here's this

1242
00:58:16,539 --> 00:58:20,840
area where you can come and bring your company and your

1243
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:21,840
whatever.

1244
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:26,210
Do you think it meets? Well, I think Airport Road would

1245
00:58:26,210 --> 00:58:27,840
have to improve.

1246
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:29,960
And I believe it's planned as a, because it's got like 35,

1247
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:32,369
000 trips a day. I believe it's planned as a primary, which

1248
00:58:32,369 --> 00:58:34,840
would be a six-lane road.

1249
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:39,400
That'll be an expensive bridge to build, but that is the

1250
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:41,840
major way to get to I-35E.

1251
00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:45,480
And with improvements to Jim Crystal, which is currently a

1252
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:48,840
little two-lane road and scheduled to be a primary arterial

1253
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:54,059
, and the connection south whenever Cole Ranch goes in, it

1254
00:58:54,059 --> 00:58:55,840
won't be perfect.

1255
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,659
And I'm sure, especially whenever you have 2,000 people get

1256
00:58:58,659 --> 00:59:00,690
off work at exactly the same moment and all get in the

1257
00:59:00,690 --> 00:59:01,840
parking lot and leave.

1258
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:07,110
There's always going to be momentary traffic jams. But even

1259
00:59:07,110 --> 00:59:10,329
when it was a two-lane road and only one way out, it'd take

1260
00:59:10,329 --> 00:59:15,059
you 15 minutes to get out, which was very painful if you

1261
00:59:15,059 --> 00:59:16,840
don't work out there and you happen to get stuck in it.

1262
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,809
But it's just kind of the way of life if you work at those

1263
00:59:19,809 --> 00:59:20,840
facilities.

1264
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,429
But I think if you have three six-lane roads going

1265
00:59:23,429 --> 00:59:26,570
different directions out of there, it's going to be vastly

1266
00:59:26,570 --> 00:59:27,840
better than it was.

1267
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:31,840
Okay. Commissioner Bruegel.

1268
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:36,590
Thank you, Chair. And I wonder, too, Commissioner Hunsworth

1269
00:59:36,590 --> 00:59:39,289
, if we, how much business Denton might be losing out on

1270
00:59:39,289 --> 00:59:40,840
because that road is so small.

1271
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,480
And as we expand this, I mean, going to your point of

1272
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:46,269
bringing in more business, I think sometimes if you do

1273
00:59:46,269 --> 00:59:47,840
build it, they will come.

1274
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:51,150
So I think to be looking at this and looking forward to the

1275
00:59:51,150 --> 00:59:54,570
future and what's the future of the industrial park and how

1276
00:59:54,570 --> 00:59:57,840
the mobility plan might kind of play a role in that.

1277
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:00,840
So just my two cents.

1278
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:01,840
Thank you.

1279
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:03,840
So there is being attention paid to this area right now.

1280
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:08,280
Plus this road is being expanded as part of the turge that

1281
01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:09,840
was put in there.

1282
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:14,989
And then this will be a city project here for the airport

1283
01:00:14,989 --> 01:00:15,840
road.

1284
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:18,699
Just for my clarification to follow on, I've got seven

1285
01:00:18,699 --> 01:00:21,840
items on here on our agenda that we're working through.

1286
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:25,150
And I'm an hour down. So can you update me where we are on

1287
01:00:25,150 --> 01:00:25,840
those seven?

1288
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:29,889
Okay. I'm trying to remember what I got left right now to

1289
01:00:29,889 --> 01:00:30,840
go through.

1290
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:34,840
Let me see here.

1291
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:38,840
It seems to me we kind of got started on about item five on

1292
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:39,840
the post oak.

1293
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:45,840
I went through, okay, let me see if this comes up here.

1294
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:47,840
How our dedication is established.

1295
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:49,840
So we've gone through that.

1296
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:50,840
Road classification.

1297
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:52,840
I went through those cross sections.

1298
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:54,840
We went to the post oak.

1299
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:58,250
Arterial parallel to Hickory Creek on the north and south

1300
01:00:58,250 --> 01:00:58,840
side.

1301
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:02,639
Map of mobility plan with major barriers, which I had given

1302
01:01:02,639 --> 01:01:03,840
you with all the barriers.

1303
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:08,840
And then we have a map with the flum overlaid.

1304
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:13,840
So that map is in your packet that shows how we came about.

1305
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:18,840
And I can pull that up for you.

1306
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:26,840
Right here is the map.

1307
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:30,679
I don't necessarily want to go through this unless you had

1308
01:01:30,679 --> 01:01:31,840
any question.

1309
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:38,940
We have our engineer from Kimney-Horn, Janelle Hanson, who

1310
01:01:38,940 --> 01:01:39,840
actually did the computer model,

1311
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:41,840
TransCAD model for this.

1312
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,340
So if there are any questions, we'll be happy to answer

1313
01:01:44,340 --> 01:01:44,840
those.

1314
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:49,500
But all of the traffic generation is based on the land use

1315
01:01:49,500 --> 01:01:51,840
plan that was done by WRT.

1316
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,840
And of course it was fleshed out a lot more.

1317
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:59,289
Looking at the DCAD data as well as what is currently out

1318
01:01:59,289 --> 01:01:59,840
there

1319
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:02,840
that could possibly get built in those areas.

1320
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,900
And then come out with the traffic generation for the

1321
01:02:05,900 --> 01:02:06,840
entire area.

1322
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:12,119
And that's what the traffic numbers you see in the last

1323
01:02:12,119 --> 01:02:14,840
slide I was showing you.

1324
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:18,840
Okay, so here are the seven items that I've got.

1325
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:21,840
I've got the mobility plan presentation.

1326
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:25,840
And I've got mobility plan additions, MPCs and new.

1327
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:29,840
I've got mobility plan classification changes.

1328
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:31,840
Have we done all those?

1329
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:35,840
Those are all exhibits that I had given you.

1330
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:40,840
These are the additions, which I already went through.

1331
01:02:40,840 --> 01:02:42,840
This is the MPCs and new.

1332
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:43,840
I've already shown you that.

1333
01:02:43,840 --> 01:02:46,949
And the purpose of showing that was the connectivity, the

1334
01:02:46,949 --> 01:02:48,840
north-south connectivity in those.

1335
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,840
So that was the main intent of bringing that in.

1336
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:55,480
Classification changes is something that I had shown you

1337
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:55,840
before.

1338
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:58,840
And this was just something in there for you to have.

1339
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:03,840
This is the one where based on the actual traffic counts

1340
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:06,840
that were determined for the fully developed condition,

1341
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:09,840
some roads, if they were a secondary arterial,

1342
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:12,800
we found that it crossed the threshold in terms of the

1343
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:16,840
amount of traffic to be classified as a primary arterial.

1344
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:18,840
So that got changed to a primary arterial.

1345
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,840
Vice versa, if the traffic was not enough,

1346
01:03:21,840 --> 01:03:24,489
when it was a primary arterial, it got changed down to a

1347
01:03:24,489 --> 01:03:26,840
secondary or secondary down to a collector.

1348
01:03:26,840 --> 01:03:31,840
So these are the ones that show that change.

1349
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:35,840
There are not that many, but they are there.

1350
01:03:35,840 --> 01:03:38,429
So like you can see Robson Ranch Road, there's plenty of

1351
01:03:38,429 --> 01:03:38,840
traffic.

1352
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:43,789
So from a secondary arterial, it changed to -- I'm sorry,

1353
01:03:43,789 --> 01:03:46,840
it changed from a primary -- so there's less traffic --

1354
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:48,840
primary down to a secondary.

1355
01:03:48,840 --> 01:03:50,840
Red would be the primary arterial.

1356
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:54,559
The green around that means it has changed into a secondary

1357
01:03:54,559 --> 01:03:54,840
.

1358
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:58,050
And this one was a collector, and it changed to a secondary

1359
01:03:58,050 --> 01:03:58,840
arterial here.

1360
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:00,840
This is John Payne Road.

1361
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:02,840
There's a lot of traffic on it.

1362
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:06,840
So it changed to a secondary arterial.

1363
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:11,840
And then this changed -- as you can see, this road changed

1364
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,840
to a primary from this point on,

1365
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:25,840
because there's a lot of traffic on this one.

1366
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:29,570
So the road that we've just spent the last few minutes

1367
01:04:29,570 --> 01:04:30,840
talking about,

1368
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:37,840
Airport Road, is going from a primary to a secondary.

1369
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:41,670
Let me go back and look at the mobility plan and see what

1370
01:04:41,670 --> 01:04:42,840
we have there.

1371
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:51,840
[ Inaudible ]

1372
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:56,840
Thank you for the clarification.

1373
01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:58,840
Okay, right here.

1374
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:03,750
I'll enlarge that for you so you can see it a little bit

1375
01:05:03,750 --> 01:05:04,840
better.

1376
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:07,840
Here is the Airport Road right here.

1377
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:12,840
25,000 to 40,000 trips projected in 2035.

1378
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:21,840
And so it is upgraded to a primary arterial.

1379
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,840
The connection to I-35W goes on to 35.

1380
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:33,840
So with that context, that's the classification for it.

1381
01:05:33,840 --> 01:05:34,840
Commissioner Beck.

1382
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:35,840
Okay.

1383
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:36,840
Got a little confused there.

1384
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:39,840
I believe it's a primary road now.

1385
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:40,840
It's a two-lane road now.

1386
01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:44,840
And we're going to up it to a secondary arterial.

1387
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:45,840
A primary arterial.

1388
01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:47,840
That's six lanes.

1389
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:48,840
Yes, sir.

1390
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:52,409
But we have to see what the city really wants to do and how

1391
01:05:52,409 --> 01:05:53,840
much money they have.

1392
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:56,840
So that -- it does make a difference.

1393
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:59,840
So some of those things come into play.

1394
01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:04,239
The intent is to get the money as much as we can from the

1395
01:06:04,239 --> 01:06:06,840
state to build our project.

1396
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:07,840
Okay.

1397
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:08,840
Thank you.

1398
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:09,840
Commissioner Hussba.

1399
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:10,840
I'm sorry.

1400
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:16,840
Is there a way -- I mean, because this highlights to me --

1401
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:18,840
I know there's other ways to go,

1402
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:24,440
but this highlights to me that just seems like a bad plan

1403
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:27,840
to run people over I-35W.

1404
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:31,889
And then you're -- so now you're causing congestion at

1405
01:06:31,889 --> 01:06:34,840
Bonnie Bray and I-35E so that they can

1406
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:38,840
loop back around to get on W.

1407
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:43,840
And so if you have 25 to 40,000 people, round numbers,

1408
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:46,840
going that route, that seems a bit

1409
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:49,840
cumbersome versus --

1410
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:51,840
I mean, that's the total number of trips.

1411
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:53,840
That's not the number of people.

1412
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:56,570
Because those people will go and come back and then that's

1413
01:06:56,570 --> 01:06:57,840
the total number of trips there.

1414
01:06:57,840 --> 01:06:58,840
Thank you.

1415
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:02,840
But is that the best route, I guess is my question to you.

1416
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:07,389
Is there an option B that would prevent sending those

1417
01:07:07,389 --> 01:07:09,840
number of trips that way?

1418
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:10,840
Yes.

1419
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:16,369
This area -- this is now right now -- Janelle, would you

1420
01:07:16,369 --> 01:07:19,840
have a number there to show in this area what

1421
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:23,840
we're doing with Traffic Wise on Bonnie Bray here?

1422
01:07:23,840 --> 01:07:29,840
Or I can probably pull that from this map here.

1423
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:30,840
Quick.

1424
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:31,840
Yeah.

1425
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:34,840
Let's answer this question and I'll come back to you.

1426
01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:36,840
It's relative, I'm sorry.

1427
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:37,840
Okay.

1428
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:38,840
Roughly 25,000.

1429
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,949
Yeah, you can see going north, south here there's not that

1430
01:07:41,949 --> 01:07:44,840
much traffic, 9,700.

1431
01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:48,480
But as you come and this traffic joins in, then this road

1432
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:53,840
will have the capacity to handle that traffic over there.

1433
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:56,840
Commissioner Donowitz.

1434
01:07:56,840 --> 01:08:01,230
I understand these traffic count numbers are based upon a

1435
01:08:01,230 --> 01:08:02,840
what time period?

1436
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:04,840
Eight hour day, 12 hour day?

1437
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:05,840
24 hours.

1438
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:06,840
24 hours.

1439
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:10,949
But if 50% of it happens within two hours, how do we count

1440
01:08:10,949 --> 01:08:11,840
for that?

1441
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:19,609
Traffic to and from work, traffic in a condensed part of

1442
01:08:19,609 --> 01:08:21,840
town at a condensed time.

1443
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:24,840
That really impacts the mobility, if you will.

1444
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:28,720
So we have these models that give us 24 hours, but you know

1445
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:31,840
, two cars in the midnight and we get 400,000 in the

1446
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:31,840
afternoon.

1447
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:32,840
I don't know.

1448
01:08:32,840 --> 01:08:37,840
There are ways to calculate the peak hour traffic.

1449
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:42,050
So the ratios that are used to design these things, that's

1450
01:08:42,050 --> 01:08:45,909
the time they start looking at these a little bit more in

1451
01:08:45,909 --> 01:08:46,840
detail.

1452
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:49,840
So it's in a computer model?

1453
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:51,840
Thank you.

1454
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:52,840
Commissioner Rozelle.

1455
01:08:52,840 --> 01:08:56,489
I just want to speak to Commissioner Hutsmith's point or

1456
01:08:56,489 --> 01:08:57,840
clarification.

1457
01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:01,029
To Commissioner Taylor's point, you can go up to Jim

1458
01:09:01,029 --> 01:09:04,720
Crystal and then head south on I-35 right there from the

1459
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:05,840
Oak entrance.

1460
01:09:05,840 --> 01:09:06,840
Right here.

1461
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:11,109
Before you actually cross I-35W, you can take a left up

1462
01:09:11,109 --> 01:09:15,630
near the, I believe it's a Budweiser Distributive, and you

1463
01:09:15,630 --> 01:09:17,840
can take a left and then get on I-35W.

1464
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:20,800
You don't have to cross over to hit Bonnie Bray and then

1465
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:21,840
loop around.

1466
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:24,840
That's not the only way to get to I-35W.

1467
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:27,840
There's two other options.

1468
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:32,220
You can use this road or, like you said, you can come back

1469
01:09:32,220 --> 01:09:35,840
here and come down 35W off of that area.

1470
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:39,840
But this is the traffic that's coming through the airport.

1471
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:45,840
And we've got to bring that out here someplace.

1472
01:09:45,840 --> 01:09:50,279
When we, when this, you know, like I said, when the design

1473
01:09:50,279 --> 01:09:52,619
is actually done, the engineers will be looking at the

1474
01:09:52,619 --> 01:09:56,840
traffic that we are generating based on the computer model.

1475
01:09:56,840 --> 01:10:01,140
Work with Tech Start and then see what is the best

1476
01:10:01,140 --> 01:10:05,840
configuration that we can achieve at that time.

1477
01:10:05,840 --> 01:10:06,840
Commissioner Hitchbeth.

1478
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:07,840
Yes sir.

1479
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:09,840
No, I understand.

1480
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:13,840
I was just curious if there's a plan B.

1481
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:17,869
And just like Commissioner Rossell points out that route is

1482
01:10:17,869 --> 01:10:18,840
a good one.

1483
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:24,840
I just want to see, kind of to your point.

1484
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:27,840
I don't go on loop 288 because it's backed up.

1485
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:29,840
And so I've learned to go a different way.

1486
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:33,390
So in this instance, I'd love to do something more in our

1487
01:10:33,390 --> 01:10:33,840
control.

1488
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:36,609
I'm not crazy about waiting for Tech Start to get all the

1489
01:10:36,609 --> 01:10:38,840
way up to Denton from the construction.

1490
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:41,840
So I'd love to see something to motivate people.

1491
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:44,819
And again, we're talking new development, new coal ranch,

1492
01:10:44,819 --> 01:10:45,840
new companies.

1493
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:48,729
And I don't know that they're going to know, they'll learn

1494
01:10:48,729 --> 01:10:49,840
the other routes.

1495
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:50,840
But I'd like to.

1496
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:54,539
People who are not going north, they have the option to

1497
01:10:54,539 --> 01:10:55,840
come down here.

1498
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:56,840
They have the option to come down here.

1499
01:10:56,840 --> 01:10:59,960
They have the option to come down Dakota, get on this road

1500
01:10:59,960 --> 01:11:01,840
and get on 35W right here.

1501
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:02,840
Excellent.

1502
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:06,840
So there are multiple ways to get here off of this road.

1503
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:07,840
Sure.

1504
01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:11,390
And I guess my only point to that is 9,000 is a lot less

1505
01:11:11,390 --> 01:11:12,840
than 24,000.

1506
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:18,539
So what can we do as a city, as a board, to motivate 10,000

1507
01:11:18,539 --> 01:11:20,840
people to take Dakota Road?

1508
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,840
Because no one's taking Dakota right now.

1509
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:24,840
And so that's my point.

1510
01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:25,840
Over time, it will change.

1511
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:28,840
Because this road is not constructed right now all the way.

1512
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:31,840
You know, what's the name of this road?

1513
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:32,840
Oh, I'm forgetting.

1514
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:36,840
This road right here is only built part of the way.

1515
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:37,840
You know, it doesn't go right.

1516
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:39,840
When it goes all the way, it's all connected.

1517
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:42,840
Then you will start to see more traffic on that road.

1518
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:46,060
Right now it is only used by one developer right here, Mr.

1519
01:11:46,060 --> 01:11:46,840
Marriott.

1520
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:47,840
Corbin.

1521
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:50,840
And then the folks right here.

1522
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:51,840
Metro.

1523
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:52,840
Metro.

1524
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:53,840
Right here.

1525
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:56,310
So once that is all connected here, you will see a lot more

1526
01:11:56,310 --> 01:11:57,840
traffic diversion right here.

1527
01:11:57,840 --> 01:11:58,840
Okay.

1528
01:11:58,840 --> 01:11:59,840
Yeah.

1529
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:00,840
Okay.

1530
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:08,840
Do we have any other items on the list?

1531
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:13,180
Well, the other items that were on the list were the real

1532
01:12:13,180 --> 01:12:15,840
ignments, update realignments.

1533
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:18,840
We may have covered that already.

1534
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:19,840
Uh-huh.

1535
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:20,840
The flume overlay.

1536
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:21,840
We did that.

1537
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:23,840
We showed you that.

1538
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:24,840
Okay.

1539
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:27,840
And then the mobility plan changes descriptions.

1540
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:28,840
Right.

1541
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:35,229
And, you know, that is one of the files in your -- let me

1542
01:12:35,229 --> 01:12:37,840
see here if I can pull that.

1543
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:40,840
Lots of things open right here.

1544
01:12:40,840 --> 01:12:43,840
Right here.

1545
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:45,840
So you have this in your backup.

1546
01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:50,090
This is basically a table that shows you what I showed you

1547
01:12:50,090 --> 01:12:51,840
on the maps already.

1548
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:56,840
These are the proposed upgrades and downgrades right here.

1549
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:58,840
That you see upgrades right here.

1550
01:12:58,840 --> 01:12:59,840
Downgrades right here.

1551
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:01,840
So that is one number of streets.

1552
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:03,840
And then realignments.

1553
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:09,300
Some of the roads were aligned better based on actual

1554
01:13:09,300 --> 01:13:14,439
evaluation of the areas and driving out there to see, you

1555
01:13:14,439 --> 01:13:16,840
know, where the best alignment would be for the roads.

1556
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:20,060
So what they were shown before in the mobility plan, they

1557
01:13:20,060 --> 01:13:22,840
got changed a little bit to better align them.

1558
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:30,329
But there is no classification change in those realignments

1559
01:13:30,329 --> 01:13:30,840
.

1560
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:33,840
Okay. Well, those are the seven items that I have.

1561
01:13:33,840 --> 01:13:37,720
So I'm going to pretty much open it up now for just general

1562
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:38,840
questions.

1563
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:39,840
Commissioner Taylor.

1564
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:40,840
Thank you, Chair.

1565
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:45,930
In our meeting, we'd asked for most of these items up here,

1566
01:13:45,930 --> 01:13:51,840
like the post oak realignment, looking at Hickory Creek.

1567
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:54,739
There would actually have been a couple of questions from

1568
01:13:54,739 --> 01:13:57,840
the public regarding congestion points around schools.

1569
01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:00,619
I figured there isn't much we can do, but I was hoping we

1570
01:14:00,619 --> 01:14:02,840
could kind of just look at the Pecan Creek.

1571
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:05,800
I have to work with the engineering department on that

1572
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:08,840
because that is more of a localized issue rather than a

1573
01:14:08,840 --> 01:14:10,840
mobility plan issue right now.

1574
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:14,250
I know that on Fisher Road, that's one of the issues they

1575
01:14:14,250 --> 01:14:14,840
have.

1576
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:19,810
We've been dealing with it ever since we started, you know,

1577
01:14:19,810 --> 01:14:22,840
going in the annexation process.

1578
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:26,199
And I happened to be in the committee from the city that

1579
01:14:26,199 --> 01:14:29,840
sat with the three people in the city committee dealing

1580
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:30,840
with the annexation,

1581
01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:34,680
with all the different people who were appointed for each

1582
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:36,840
area that was being annexed.

1583
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:38,840
This was one of the items they brought at that time.

1584
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:40,840
So I'm pretty familiar with it.

1585
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:43,859
There is some work being done, you know, in terms of trying

1586
01:14:43,859 --> 01:14:48,199
to create some trails that people, you know, kids can walk

1587
01:14:48,199 --> 01:14:51,840
on and get there a little easier.

1588
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:54,329
Some of the roads that got built in that area already were

1589
01:14:54,329 --> 01:14:57,800
with the Preserve Development, so that is creating better

1590
01:14:57,800 --> 01:14:59,840
access in and out of there.

1591
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:01,840
So that got done.

1592
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:05,550
There were some issues they had about signage or no parking

1593
01:15:05,550 --> 01:15:05,840
.

1594
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:09,250
So we went out and we did already all of those were already

1595
01:15:09,250 --> 01:15:09,840
done.

1596
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:13,279
This is one of the lingering issues, you know, which is no

1597
01:15:13,279 --> 01:15:14,840
easy solution to that.

1598
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:20,840
But it's not really a mobility plan issue.

1599
01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:21,840
Thank you.

1600
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:22,840
Thank you.

1601
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:25,699
Yes, you mentioned that the road impact fees are split into

1602
01:15:25,699 --> 01:15:27,840
five subsections of the city of Denton.

1603
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:30,840
Where could I find a map of those subsections?

1604
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:32,840
I will bring it to you in my presentation.

1605
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:33,840
Okay.

1606
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:36,720
Now you are by city ordinance appointed as the Capital

1607
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:41,180
Improvement Advisory Committee, CIEC, which is required by

1608
01:15:41,180 --> 01:15:41,840
state law.

1609
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:45,899
And all of the impact fee presentations you will hear will

1610
01:15:45,899 --> 01:15:49,609
be as a body, CIEC body, not as a planning and zoning

1611
01:15:49,609 --> 01:15:50,840
commission.

1612
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:53,739
So there will be separate meetings and separate postings of

1613
01:15:53,739 --> 01:15:54,840
agendas for that.

1614
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:57,840
And I will go through all those presentations at that time.

1615
01:15:57,840 --> 01:15:58,840
Thank you.

1616
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:06,840
Yes, sir.

1617
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:08,840
My turn.

1618
01:16:08,840 --> 01:16:13,170
I had a couple of just kind of general questions,

1619
01:16:13,170 --> 01:16:14,840
observations.

1620
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:18,229
What's the issue that the city of Denton seems to struggle

1621
01:16:18,229 --> 01:16:22,189
with on the funding of so many of these roads when, for

1622
01:16:22,189 --> 01:16:22,840
example,

1623
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:26,229
I had the opportunity to travel and some other business

1624
01:16:26,229 --> 01:16:30,840
dealings to Little Elm, Frisco, and there's great mobility

1625
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:30,840
over there.

1626
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:36,590
Four or six lane concrete roads built out to basically

1627
01:16:36,590 --> 01:16:38,840
vacant property.

1628
01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:42,840
How are they able to fund things like that?

1629
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:46,840
And we have such a difficult time, to be honest,

1630
01:16:46,840 --> 01:16:51,090
maintaining what we have, much less providing any kind of

1631
01:16:51,090 --> 01:16:52,840
future mobility,

1632
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:55,899
taking it from a map to actually the road is built and

1633
01:16:55,899 --> 01:16:58,840
people can come out and build the next phase.

1634
01:16:58,840 --> 01:17:04,090
It's much easier to build these roads when the hills of

1635
01:17:04,090 --> 01:17:08,840
Denton or any of those entities come in.

1636
01:17:08,840 --> 01:17:10,840
And these larger roads have to be built at that time.

1637
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:12,840
You can have the right of way.

1638
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:13,840
You can.

1639
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:17,869
But in the city of Denton in general, all of the primary or

1640
01:17:17,869 --> 01:17:20,840
secondary arterioles are really owned by Techstart.

1641
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:26,470
The city owns very few primary or secondary arterioles at

1642
01:17:26,470 --> 01:17:27,840
this time.

1643
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:29,840
There's hardly any.

1644
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:34,670
If you look at the roadmap there, all of the major roads

1645
01:17:34,670 --> 01:17:36,840
are Techstart roads.

1646
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:44,840
So for whatever reason, back when, it was not done.

1647
01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:47,470
So nowadays it's a lot harder to do it, to get the right of

1648
01:17:47,470 --> 01:17:49,840
way, to ex-Kerrell Boulevard and all.

1649
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:53,479
Kerrell Boulevard is about the only major road out there,

1650
01:17:53,479 --> 01:17:54,840
right, which is a city-owned road.

1651
01:17:54,840 --> 01:17:58,840
Beside that, there are two new ones that are being built,

1652
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:00,840
which is the Mayhill and, or will be built,

1653
01:18:00,840 --> 01:18:03,840
they're under design, Mayhill and Monibray.

1654
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:08,449
Now in the bond funding that happened in the bond election

1655
01:18:08,449 --> 01:18:11,840
last year in 2014, November election,

1656
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:14,840
there was money put in for road expansions.

1657
01:18:14,840 --> 01:18:18,840
There is, and I may be wrong, but there is over 35 million,

1658
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:22,840
around $35 million for capacity expansion projects.

1659
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:24,840
So it is starting to happen.

1660
01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:26,840
May I please jump in here too, if I could?

1661
01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:28,840
Sure, Commissioner Buergele.

1662
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:34,119
So to go along, looking, another reason I think why our

1663
01:18:34,119 --> 01:18:37,109
streets are not in as great of shape as some of the

1664
01:18:37,109 --> 01:18:37,840
surrounding communities,

1665
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:42,529
is as I understand it, a portion of our sales tax that we

1666
01:18:42,529 --> 01:18:45,840
collect as a city goes to fund DCTA.

1667
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:47,840
I was going there next.

1668
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:52,340
Right, okay, good, and so we can't raise our sales tax as

1669
01:18:52,340 --> 01:18:53,840
per state laws.

1670
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:57,710
So we're kind of, whereas other cities have a portion of

1671
01:18:57,710 --> 01:19:00,840
their sales tax going to fund the streets,

1672
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:02,520
which is why I believe we're starting to look at road

1673
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:05,060
impact fees, trying to find other sources of funding to

1674
01:19:05,060 --> 01:19:06,840
improve our streets.

1675
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:09,840
But cool, so we're on the same page with this.

1676
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:10,840
But there was-

1677
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:12,840
Yeah, that was in the 80s.

1678
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:14,840
That decision was made.

1679
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:16,840
But we're living with it today.

1680
01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:18,840
We are, and that's exactly-

1681
01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:21,800
Yeah, but and yet we have public transportation in the city

1682
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:25,840
, whereas our neighboring communities, many of them don't.

1683
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:29,630
So it is a, we might have crumbling streets, but the trade-

1684
01:19:29,630 --> 01:19:32,840
off is that we do have some form of public transportation.

1685
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:35,840
If I could just get on that for a minute.

1686
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:38,159
Yeah, I'm going to stay away from how many people I see on

1687
01:19:38,159 --> 01:19:41,789
those horses, how many cars are sitting, and that's kind of

1688
01:19:41,789 --> 01:19:41,840
-

1689
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:44,800
But that is a challenge, that they have those sales taxes

1690
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:45,840
that can go to their streets and we don't.

1691
01:19:45,840 --> 01:19:48,800
And that's kind of where I'm going with some of my comments

1692
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:53,109
and questions, is that I recognize and understand that's

1693
01:19:53,109 --> 01:19:54,840
exactly the reason that we're in the position.

1694
01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:58,479
And I certainly understand the tech stock right away, as I

1695
01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:01,699
think I've spoken on that a number of times here to this

1696
01:20:01,699 --> 01:20:02,840
commission.

1697
01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:05,579
And it gets back to the roads that we do have control over,

1698
01:20:05,579 --> 01:20:08,199
which is to the ones you brought up, Bonnie Bray and May

1699
01:20:08,199 --> 01:20:08,840
hill.

1700
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:11,840
But we don't have the funds to be able to do those.

1701
01:20:11,840 --> 01:20:14,859
Those should be, if we're anywhere like the other

1702
01:20:14,859 --> 01:20:18,569
communities, those should already be six-lane concrete

1703
01:20:18,569 --> 01:20:20,840
roads from 35 to 380.

1704
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:26,789
And they're not. They're as passable as they can be asphalt

1705
01:20:26,789 --> 01:20:31,840
and not even have curb and gutter on them.

1706
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:35,569
So I understand to that point that we have some things that

1707
01:20:35,569 --> 01:20:39,210
were decided well before it ever came to the point that we

1708
01:20:39,210 --> 01:20:42,840
are here today that we're stuck with living with.

1709
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:47,270
And I want to also ask just a kind of a general information

1710
01:20:47,270 --> 01:20:48,840
question for me.

1711
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:51,989
I know there was a bike count that was done, I won't say

1712
01:20:51,989 --> 01:20:53,840
within the last month or two.

1713
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:57,840
And I would like to see what those counts are versus what

1714
01:20:57,840 --> 01:20:59,840
our traffic counts are.

1715
01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:04,489
I think bikes are a great form of a way to get around if

1716
01:21:04,489 --> 01:21:09,840
that's something that works for you or for your family.

1717
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:12,840
It's to the same vein of like DCTA.

1718
01:21:12,840 --> 01:21:15,840
I think these things are great ideas.

1719
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:19,720
But I also want to balance the great idea of what we would

1720
01:21:19,720 --> 01:21:22,949
like to do with the reality of when we spend money on

1721
01:21:22,949 --> 01:21:23,840
things like this,

1722
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:30,130
that public transportation, bike trails or bike lanes, that

1723
01:21:30,130 --> 01:21:32,840
we do that at the expense of other things.

1724
01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:36,479
And I would like to see just from a dollar dollar

1725
01:21:36,479 --> 01:21:40,489
standpoint is if we've got a bike count of 400 bikes on a

1726
01:21:40,489 --> 01:21:44,840
road and a traffic count of 25,000 cars,

1727
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:48,479
how much money are we spending to do bike lanes versus

1728
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:52,479
putting another lane or two lanes that travel, you know,

1729
01:21:52,479 --> 01:21:56,840
cars can travel on so that in another 25 or 30 years,

1730
01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:59,159
we're not sitting here going, well, we've got bike lanes

1731
01:21:59,159 --> 01:21:59,840
everywhere.

1732
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:01,840
But now we really can't get anywhere.

1733
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:05,479
And we kind of are sitting here going, you know, we need to

1734
01:22:05,479 --> 01:22:06,840
balance some of those things.

1735
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:11,140
I think it's just my opinion that we look at it from that

1736
01:22:11,140 --> 01:22:15,960
standpoint as well because our predecessors that said at

1737
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:19,430
this commission and City Council made these exact same

1738
01:22:19,430 --> 01:22:23,220
decisions based at different periods of time of what

1739
01:22:23,220 --> 01:22:24,840
sounded like a really good idea

1740
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:27,640
and may have been popular at the time to do public

1741
01:22:27,640 --> 01:22:28,840
transportation.

1742
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:30,520
And now we don't have the funds to maintain the roads that

1743
01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:30,840
we have.

1744
01:22:30,840 --> 01:22:34,329
And we've got tremendous gridlock in our city, and we've

1745
01:22:34,329 --> 01:22:38,069
got a tremendous amount of growth coming with 35. And we

1746
01:22:38,069 --> 01:22:39,840
can get from one side of town to the other.

1747
01:22:39,840 --> 01:22:44,760
We now have 2030 didn't plan, which is quit growing outside

1748
01:22:44,760 --> 01:22:49,050
of Denton and bring everybody in and if, in my opinion, if

1749
01:22:49,050 --> 01:22:53,460
we as a commission City Council and staff, don't get our

1750
01:22:53,460 --> 01:22:55,840
hands around how we solve some of these issues.

1751
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:59,229
We're going to force everybody to be inside the loop, and

1752
01:22:59,229 --> 01:23:02,500
they're tech stock roads and we don't have money to do the

1753
01:23:02,500 --> 01:23:03,840
roads that we got.

1754
01:23:03,840 --> 01:23:06,739
We may need four lane bike roads because that's the only

1755
01:23:06,739 --> 01:23:08,840
way you're going to get around town.

1756
01:23:08,840 --> 01:23:12,399
And that's not going to be popular once 105 degrees or 15

1757
01:23:12,399 --> 01:23:16,630
degrees. So, if I can, Commissioner Brickle. Thank you, sir

1758
01:23:16,630 --> 01:23:16,840
.

1759
01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:21,250
I would also like to find out that that bike count as well.

1760
01:23:21,250 --> 01:23:25,479
And I'd like to hear kind of where Denton ranks in Texas or

1761
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:30,170
among other mid sized cities in the country about per

1762
01:23:30,170 --> 01:23:35,079
capita bike use being that we are a college town and I

1763
01:23:35,079 --> 01:23:36,840
imagine it's probably higher than most.

1764
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:39,579
So as long as we're looking at that those numbers, if you

1765
01:23:39,579 --> 01:23:42,260
could kind of give us an idea of where we rank among other

1766
01:23:42,260 --> 01:23:44,939
communities of our size or in our area for number of bike

1767
01:23:44,939 --> 01:23:46,840
users, that'd be helpful too.

1768
01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:52,840
Okay.

1769
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:54,840
Lots of work for the department.

1770
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:55,840
I'm sorry.

1771
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:58,479
Lots of work for engineering department. I'm making all the

1772
01:23:58,479 --> 01:23:58,840
notes.

1773
01:23:58,840 --> 01:24:01,390
I'll get John Davis to come and give you a presentation on

1774
01:24:01,390 --> 01:24:01,840
that.

1775
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:06,840
That's where we pay you the big bucks.

1776
01:24:06,840 --> 01:24:09,739
I think we have someone here already and to see staff that

1777
01:24:09,739 --> 01:24:12,840
can speak to some of these questions have been proposed.

1778
01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:21,840
Yes, please, Shandrin, if you wouldn't mind.

1779
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:23,840
Good evening, Commissioner.

1780
01:24:23,840 --> 01:24:26,899
I'm Shandrin Jarvis with the planning department and I

1781
01:24:26,899 --> 01:24:30,229
spent most of my career as a transportation planner dealing

1782
01:24:30,229 --> 01:24:31,840
with these such issues.

1783
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:38,840
I just have two recommendations and things to think about.

1784
01:24:38,840 --> 01:24:43,390
Your question about the sales tax is you're going in the

1785
01:24:43,390 --> 01:24:47,840
right direction, but I think two things that I've noticed

1786
01:24:47,840 --> 01:24:51,149
that are missing that may be happening in those other

1787
01:24:51,149 --> 01:24:52,840
communities is that they coordinate with the NPS.

1788
01:24:52,840 --> 01:24:57,840
I guess in this area, it's the NCT cog.

1789
01:24:57,840 --> 01:24:59,840
Have you heard about that?

1790
01:24:59,840 --> 01:25:07,060
I don't want to get into too many details, but states give

1791
01:25:07,060 --> 01:25:11,250
part of their gas tax funds to the federal government every

1792
01:25:11,250 --> 01:25:12,840
however many years.

1793
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:16,479
Part of that is returned back to the states and is

1794
01:25:16,479 --> 01:25:20,039
distributed again through the NPS, but you have to request

1795
01:25:20,039 --> 01:25:20,840
that money.

1796
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:23,840
And I don't know that that's been happening here.

1797
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:26,840
So there may be something to look into.

1798
01:25:26,840 --> 01:25:31,859
The other thing is you may want to look into getting an MOU

1799
01:25:31,859 --> 01:25:37,100
with TextDOT to get control over your roles that are within

1800
01:25:37,100 --> 01:25:39,840
the city's jurisdiction.

1801
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:42,840
So just something to think about.

1802
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:44,840
Those are options.

1803
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:45,840
MOU means?

1804
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:48,840
Memorandum of understanding.

1805
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:52,840
And is that something that P and Z can do?

1806
01:25:52,840 --> 01:25:53,840
Commissioner Bruegel.

1807
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:54,840
Thank you, Chair.

1808
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:57,510
Is that something that P and Z can do or is that more

1809
01:25:57,510 --> 01:26:00,840
something that City Council would have direction over?

1810
01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:01,840
Good.

1811
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:02,840
Can I come back to you?

1812
01:26:02,840 --> 01:26:05,829
Because those are great ideas, but are we the right body to

1813
01:26:05,829 --> 01:26:06,840
finish that?

1814
01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:08,840
The coordination with cog is standard.

1815
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:09,840
It happens.

1816
01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:14,840
So the projects that get done, cog is involved in those.

1817
01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:18,479
In terms of the turn back is what the term is being used by

1818
01:26:18,479 --> 01:26:19,840
TextDOT right now.

1819
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:25,119
To turn back those roads where the ones that go through the

1820
01:26:25,119 --> 01:26:28,479
cities and majority of the traffic generated is through

1821
01:26:28,479 --> 01:26:29,840
those cities on those roads.

1822
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:33,899
But they're not really a major TextDOT traffic route, if

1823
01:26:33,899 --> 01:26:34,840
you will.

1824
01:26:34,840 --> 01:26:38,640
And they're trying to give those back to the cities all

1825
01:26:38,640 --> 01:26:40,840
around the state right now.

1826
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:42,840
City have been involved on that.

1827
01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:46,840
There's discussions going on currently with TextDOT.

1828
01:26:46,840 --> 01:26:52,100
When you take a road, all of the maintenance responsibility

1829
01:26:52,100 --> 01:26:53,840
come on the city.

1830
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:55,840
So that's a big issue.

1831
01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:59,890
What TextDOT needs to do, what condition those roads need

1832
01:26:59,890 --> 01:27:02,840
to be before a city will take them over.

1833
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:07,270
And in lieu of that, what TextDOT will do in addition to

1834
01:27:07,270 --> 01:27:10,840
that to build something else in the city.

1835
01:27:10,840 --> 01:27:13,840
So those discussions are currently underway right now.

1836
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:16,840
There's been going on for the last almost two years.

1837
01:27:16,840 --> 01:27:17,840
Okay.

1838
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:19,840
And that's happening among staff?

1839
01:27:19,840 --> 01:27:21,840
Yeah, it's with the staff.

1840
01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:28,840
We have one of the ACMs involved in it.

1841
01:27:28,840 --> 01:27:32,840
And some of the engineers involved in it.

1842
01:27:32,840 --> 01:27:35,840
Well, I want to ask a follow up on that.

1843
01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:38,369
Earlier in your presentation, you were talking about the

1844
01:27:38,369 --> 01:27:40,840
right of way the city has to acquire to get the utilities

1845
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:42,840
outside of TextDOT right of way.

1846
01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:44,840
The easements.

1847
01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:48,840
And the costs associated with those.

1848
01:27:48,840 --> 01:27:52,890
It seems just on the surface that it would be to our

1849
01:27:52,890 --> 01:27:56,899
advantage to take those roads over sooner rather than later

1850
01:27:56,899 --> 01:27:59,840
, even though they may not be in the greatest condition.

1851
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:00,840
Yes.

1852
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:03,319
Because then we don't have to buy the right of way, reloc

1853
01:28:03,319 --> 01:28:05,840
ate all the utilities and all that additional cost.

1854
01:28:05,840 --> 01:28:08,840
Then those can actually stay in the current right of way.

1855
01:28:08,840 --> 01:28:09,840
Yes.

1856
01:28:09,840 --> 01:28:12,840
And on the chessboard, that is one of the items there.

1857
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:15,840
That is one of the considerations that city is looking at.

1858
01:28:15,840 --> 01:28:19,000
Like in Kenya, we have to, you know, if TextDOT is still a

1859
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:21,840
TextDOT road, there's a lot of utilities we got.

1860
01:28:21,840 --> 01:28:22,840
We have to move them out.

1861
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:24,840
We have to buy lots of easements.

1862
01:28:24,840 --> 01:28:28,479
You know, millions of dollars adding to the total cost of

1863
01:28:28,479 --> 01:28:29,840
the project there.

1864
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:31,840
So those are part of the mix.

1865
01:28:31,840 --> 01:28:33,840
We're already currently working on that.

1866
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:34,840
Yes, sir.

1867
01:28:34,840 --> 01:28:36,840
Okay, great.

1868
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:40,680
And if I could just answer your question, Amber, we, if P&Z

1869
01:28:40,680 --> 01:28:45,470
would not look upon memorandum of understanding, that would

1870
01:28:45,470 --> 01:28:48,260
be something that council would pass on and they would have

1871
01:28:48,260 --> 01:28:50,890
to pass an ordinance to authorize the city manager to

1872
01:28:50,890 --> 01:28:51,840
execute that.

1873
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:54,840
But that wouldn't be within the purview of P&Z.

1874
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:58,250
And it might also be helpful, I've just been listening to

1875
01:28:58,250 --> 01:29:01,350
some of your questions, and I think it would be helpful to

1876
01:29:01,350 --> 01:29:04,840
know where the funds come from for these specific items.

1877
01:29:04,840 --> 01:29:06,840
Because you have two issues with streets.

1878
01:29:06,840 --> 01:29:09,350
You have the capacity issue and you've got the maintenance

1879
01:29:09,350 --> 01:29:09,840
issue.

1880
01:29:09,840 --> 01:29:12,840
And I think that those are funded by two different sources.

1881
01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:15,949
So that might be something that you could bring forward as

1882
01:29:15,949 --> 01:29:17,840
to where that money comes from.

1883
01:29:17,840 --> 01:29:21,880
Yeah, the capacity, the impact fees are what will pay for

1884
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:23,840
the capacity expansion.

1885
01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:28,840
The maintenance cannot be paid for through the impact fees.

1886
01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:33,180
But in the last bond election, there were additional bonds

1887
01:29:33,180 --> 01:29:33,840
sold.

1888
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:38,130
So currently, the state department gets $6 million a year

1889
01:29:38,130 --> 01:29:42,840
as bond funding for rehab projects, plus additional monies.

1890
01:29:42,840 --> 01:29:45,989
So they're approaching, I think, close to $12 million a

1891
01:29:45,989 --> 01:29:48,840
year that they will be spending for rehab projects.

1892
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:52,539
So yes, there is a lot of effort that have been put in in

1893
01:29:52,539 --> 01:29:55,840
the last three, four years to move up the funding for

1894
01:29:55,840 --> 01:29:58,840
street projects, especially the rehab projects.

1895
01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:04,090
So they can bring those to better driving condition, if you

1896
01:30:04,090 --> 01:30:04,840
will.

1897
01:30:04,840 --> 01:30:11,239
City does a overall condition index analysis of the entire

1898
01:30:11,239 --> 01:30:14,840
street system, OCI reading.

1899
01:30:14,840 --> 01:30:19,840
And streets which have a high OCI are good, 60 and over.

1900
01:30:19,840 --> 01:30:23,840
There are streets which are 18, 20.

1901
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:28,609
So anything that is currently under 41 OCI is high priority

1902
01:30:28,609 --> 01:30:31,159
, because they will totally fall apart and the cost will be

1903
01:30:31,159 --> 01:30:31,840
even higher.

1904
01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:37,000
So those are on high priority to be done as part of the

1905
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:38,840
rehab process.

1906
01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:39,840
Commissioner Roswell.

1907
01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:40,840
Thank you.

1908
01:30:40,840 --> 01:30:44,289
We mentioned last week in our meeting about the potential

1909
01:30:44,289 --> 01:30:47,840
for McKinney transitioning or turning back to Denton.

1910
01:30:47,840 --> 01:30:53,859
Is there a list or available list of current roads that are

1911
01:30:53,859 --> 01:30:57,840
being talked about being turned back,

1912
01:30:57,840 --> 01:31:01,479
just so we as a commission can understand maybe the

1913
01:31:01,479 --> 01:31:04,840
landscape of what's hopefully going to take place?

1914
01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:10,359
Yeah, it is kind of a, I think the Tech Start has come up

1915
01:31:10,359 --> 01:31:11,840
with a list.

1916
01:31:11,840 --> 01:31:14,840
I can check with them and see if we can pass it on to you.

1917
01:31:14,840 --> 01:31:15,840
Okay.

1918
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:16,840
Thank you.

1919
01:31:16,840 --> 01:31:21,840
As an email.

1920
01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:24,840
Anybody else?

1921
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:25,840
Well.

1922
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:28,420
Just as a refresher, I mean, this might be helpful for you

1923
01:31:28,420 --> 01:31:28,840
all.

1924
01:31:28,840 --> 01:31:32,619
I know that we mentioned it when we were going over some of

1925
01:31:32,619 --> 01:31:36,500
the items for the new members, but when you sit as part of

1926
01:31:36,500 --> 01:31:37,840
the CIAC board,

1927
01:31:37,840 --> 01:31:42,050
that this mobility plan that's going to be passed by PNZ

1928
01:31:42,050 --> 01:31:44,840
will be incorporated into the CIP, correct?

1929
01:31:44,840 --> 01:31:48,689
And that's something that you're going to look at as long

1930
01:31:48,689 --> 01:31:50,840
with the land use assumptions.

1931
01:31:50,840 --> 01:31:54,680
And you'll take that information to determine any impact

1932
01:31:54,680 --> 01:31:57,840
fees that might be assessed for the roadway.

1933
01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:02,840
So you're going to be looking at it multiple times.

1934
01:32:02,840 --> 01:32:05,840
Just as a point of clarification.

1935
01:32:05,840 --> 01:32:06,840
Okay.

1936
01:32:06,840 --> 01:32:07,840
Chair, if...

1937
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:08,840
Commissioner Duttlewitz.

1938
01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:11,840
We're now at the point of what's next.

1939
01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:12,840
I asked this question.

1940
01:32:12,840 --> 01:32:16,010
When we get the presentation next week, we will have a vote

1941
01:32:16,010 --> 01:32:16,840
, correct?

1942
01:32:16,840 --> 01:32:17,840
Yes.

1943
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:22,840
And our vote will pass on yay or nay to City Council.

1944
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:26,840
Can we do so with conditions?

1945
01:32:26,840 --> 01:32:27,840
Yes.

1946
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:30,210
Chair, do you have some conditions you want to discuss

1947
01:32:30,210 --> 01:32:31,840
while we're having work session?

1948
01:32:31,840 --> 01:32:34,859
Well, again, going back to my issue of current streets

1949
01:32:34,859 --> 01:32:38,289
within the city, within residential areas that could

1950
01:32:38,289 --> 01:32:39,840
potentially widen,

1951
01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:43,840
and we have property issues and business issues.

1952
01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:48,779
Can we look at those plans that engineering is going to put

1953
01:32:48,779 --> 01:32:50,840
forth for a logic check,

1954
01:32:50,840 --> 01:32:55,300
and go back to that, that it makes sense for that plan to

1955
01:32:55,300 --> 01:32:56,840
be put in place?

1956
01:32:56,840 --> 01:32:59,420
Keep in mind that the mobility plan does not cover

1957
01:32:59,420 --> 01:33:00,840
residential streets.

1958
01:33:00,840 --> 01:33:03,880
It will be collective streets, which are more in the

1959
01:33:03,880 --> 01:33:04,840
commercial areas,

1960
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:08,479
and also larger developments in the interior, collective

1961
01:33:08,479 --> 01:33:09,840
streets, the new ones,

1962
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:12,840
and of course the primary and secondary art trails.

1963
01:33:12,840 --> 01:33:14,840
It would not cover residential streets in that.

1964
01:33:14,840 --> 01:33:15,840
Continue.

1965
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:16,840
Yes, Bob.

1966
01:33:16,840 --> 01:33:17,840
Thank you, because that does clarify.

1967
01:33:17,840 --> 01:33:21,789
Because, again, mobility plan is a concept, but the issues

1968
01:33:21,789 --> 01:33:23,840
that I'm having is that,

1969
01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:27,100
once this goes into concept, at what point does it become

1970
01:33:27,100 --> 01:33:27,840
actionable?

1971
01:33:27,840 --> 01:33:30,380
When do they actually start to say, okay, we're going to

1972
01:33:30,380 --> 01:33:32,840
build that street, and here's the plan for that street?

1973
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:33,840
We're in the process of --

1974
01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:38,420
The model, the traffic numbers I'm showing you, for the

1975
01:33:38,420 --> 01:33:41,840
current conditions we have, the existing conditions,

1976
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:46,369
we have a model run that shows how much traffic is on each

1977
01:33:46,369 --> 01:33:48,840
street in the entire city.

1978
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:53,020
So based on that traffic, we know which roads are failing

1979
01:33:53,020 --> 01:33:54,840
in terms of capacity.

1980
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:59,250
Not my question exactly, because I understand that, based

1981
01:33:59,250 --> 01:34:00,840
on computer models.

1982
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:02,840
Bonnie Bray is an example.

1983
01:34:02,840 --> 01:34:06,350
There's a concept plan for it, and in that model, certain

1984
01:34:06,350 --> 01:34:10,840
entrances to shopping centers and streets were eliminated.

1985
01:34:10,840 --> 01:34:13,840
It didn't make sense.

1986
01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:17,869
And so when I asked the question of why that was happening,

1987
01:34:17,869 --> 01:34:19,840
well, because we can't.

1988
01:34:19,840 --> 01:34:25,119
And, again, my point is there is no overview of a process

1989
01:34:25,119 --> 01:34:29,840
or of a plan other than engineering themselves.

1990
01:34:29,840 --> 01:34:31,840
No one else reviews that plan.

1991
01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:36,100
We review plans as P&Z of developments going in and streets

1992
01:34:36,100 --> 01:34:37,840
and how that impacts,

1993
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:41,909
but we don't get to look at this as a approval process, if

1994
01:34:41,909 --> 01:34:45,840
you will, or an oversight to suggest changes, logic changes

1995
01:34:45,840 --> 01:34:47,840
that we're doing right now.

1996
01:34:47,840 --> 01:34:50,310
So I don't know at what point in the process it is, but my

1997
01:34:50,310 --> 01:34:51,840
concern would be,

1998
01:34:51,840 --> 01:34:54,329
will you approve the mobility plan and kind of have carte

1999
01:34:54,329 --> 01:34:55,840
blanche to go forward with it?

2000
01:34:55,840 --> 01:34:56,840
Yeah.

2001
01:34:56,840 --> 01:34:59,859
I mean, you can put that as a condition, but it is really

2002
01:34:59,859 --> 01:35:03,840
not something that mobility plan addresses.

2003
01:35:03,840 --> 01:35:05,840
That is not the intent of the mobility plan.

2004
01:35:05,840 --> 01:35:10,310
That is a site-specific design that you can definitely

2005
01:35:10,310 --> 01:35:13,840
address with the engineering department.

2006
01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:18,149
If you have something that is affecting a property that you

2007
01:35:18,149 --> 01:35:21,210
want to talk to them, you contact the engineering

2008
01:35:21,210 --> 01:35:24,840
department and talk to them.

2009
01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:27,800
I don't know if it's helpful, but a lot of the funding for

2010
01:35:27,800 --> 01:35:31,569
some of the streets that are contemplated by the mobility

2011
01:35:31,569 --> 01:35:31,840
plan

2012
01:35:31,840 --> 01:35:35,159
is done through the capital improvements committee, which

2013
01:35:35,159 --> 01:35:36,840
is like a budget committee.

2014
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:40,399
And so it has to do with the bond election, and they go

2015
01:35:40,399 --> 01:35:42,840
through a separate committee for that.

2016
01:35:42,840 --> 01:35:45,960
My question, again, my concerns will still continue, and

2017
01:35:45,960 --> 01:35:47,840
this may not be the place to do it.

2018
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:50,750
Sometimes the mobility plan is amended after that's already

2019
01:35:50,750 --> 01:35:52,840
been approved by a separate committee.

2020
01:35:52,840 --> 01:35:58,020
Jennifer is not going to talk about individual driveway

2021
01:35:58,020 --> 01:35:59,840
openings, etc.

2022
01:35:59,840 --> 01:36:02,840
It doesn't. That's not the intent of the mobility plan.

2023
01:36:02,840 --> 01:36:03,840
No.

2024
01:36:03,840 --> 01:36:06,409
And he gave me an explanation for that, and I understand

2025
01:36:06,409 --> 01:36:06,840
that.

2026
01:36:06,840 --> 01:36:09,739
So I have to reposition when and where I bring that up at

2027
01:36:09,739 --> 01:36:13,840
what point in time, or the process to get it in place.

2028
01:36:13,840 --> 01:36:17,010
And I'll be talking with legal staff on that in city

2029
01:36:17,010 --> 01:36:17,840
council.

2030
01:36:17,840 --> 01:36:18,840
Chair, can I ask a question?

2031
01:36:18,840 --> 01:36:19,840
Commissioner Rozelle.

2032
01:36:19,840 --> 01:36:23,479
Commissioner Notowicz, are you asking for a plat of the

2033
01:36:23,479 --> 01:36:27,159
road so you can see curb cuts, you can see medians, you can

2034
01:36:27,159 --> 01:36:27,840
see sidewalks,

2035
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:31,479
and that approved by us, is that what you're kind of

2036
01:36:31,479 --> 01:36:34,840
getting at so we see the construction plans of a road?

2037
01:36:34,840 --> 01:36:35,840
I'm just trying to understand your concern.

2038
01:36:35,840 --> 01:36:40,920
Exactly. We saw a concept of Bonnie Bray done by

2039
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:42,840
engineering.

2040
01:36:42,840 --> 01:36:45,399
And I'm looking at it as well as other people looking at it

2041
01:36:45,399 --> 01:36:47,840
and go, wait a minute, there's an entrance to this.

2042
01:36:47,840 --> 01:36:50,100
There currently is an entrance into the shopping center at

2043
01:36:50,100 --> 01:36:51,840
the corner of Bonnie Bray and University.

2044
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:53,840
The plan showed it to be closed.

2045
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:57,479
The plan also suggested there was a median in which any

2046
01:36:57,479 --> 01:37:02,000
traffic traveling from the south to the north on Bonnie Br

2047
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:05,840
ay would not have the ability to enter that shopping center.

2048
01:37:05,840 --> 01:37:10,140
They would have to go up around, up to Robson, raise a

2049
01:37:10,140 --> 01:37:14,369
ranch, make a U-turn, come back in to utilize that, Alberts

2050
01:37:14,369 --> 01:37:16,840
ons and any of the restaurants and facilities there.

2051
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:19,850
Now to me it doesn't make any sense because right now we

2052
01:37:19,850 --> 01:37:23,189
have, we have a little bit of a median, we have the ability

2053
01:37:23,189 --> 01:37:24,840
to turn in and turn out.

2054
01:37:24,840 --> 01:37:26,840
It just doesn't make sense.

2055
01:37:26,840 --> 01:37:31,550
As well as the widening of that street is going to require

2056
01:37:31,550 --> 01:37:35,189
the removal of half a parking lot, if you will, that now

2057
01:37:35,189 --> 01:37:38,050
services those businesses that face east within that

2058
01:37:38,050 --> 01:37:38,840
shopping center.

2059
01:37:38,840 --> 01:37:42,930
And the people that rent and lease those properties, my

2060
01:37:42,930 --> 01:37:45,229
business fronts it and now I have no parking because you're

2061
01:37:45,229 --> 01:37:45,840
taking that out.

2062
01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:49,840
And that was now shown on that plan.

2063
01:37:49,840 --> 01:37:52,890
And we're going, how do we change this or what's the

2064
01:37:52,890 --> 01:37:53,840
situation?

2065
01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:57,800
My answer that I got at the meeting, the open house meeting

2066
01:37:57,800 --> 01:38:00,840
or citizens meeting was it's a done deal.

2067
01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:01,840
Well, wait a minute.

2068
01:38:01,840 --> 01:38:03,840
Well, we had that approved by bond.

2069
01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:07,720
The bond approves to me the funding for it, but the design

2070
01:38:07,720 --> 01:38:11,140
I'm suggesting needs to have someone to look at it and say

2071
01:38:11,140 --> 01:38:14,840
does this make sense for people who travel or whatever.

2072
01:38:14,840 --> 01:38:19,159
There's a lot of older citizens south of there is a vintage

2073
01:38:19,159 --> 01:38:23,359
retirement center that utilize the medical accessory

2074
01:38:23,359 --> 01:38:25,840
building retail shops there.

2075
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:28,359
They go to that Albertsons, they go to the restaurants

2076
01:38:28,359 --> 01:38:28,840
there.

2077
01:38:28,840 --> 01:38:30,520
They come up that road and they won't be able to turn in

2078
01:38:30,520 --> 01:38:30,840
there.

2079
01:38:30,840 --> 01:38:34,510
So again, just making sure that some of these plans have a

2080
01:38:34,510 --> 01:38:38,260
logic to it that doesn't impact the current businesses and

2081
01:38:38,260 --> 01:38:39,840
citizens mobility.

2082
01:38:39,840 --> 01:38:40,840
That's all.

2083
01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:41,840
That's where I'm at.

2084
01:38:41,840 --> 01:38:42,840
Yeah.

2085
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:45,840
Come on, Becca, just to throw this at you.

2086
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:49,279
We did a subcommittee, I think, in the last meeting or two

2087
01:38:49,279 --> 01:38:51,840
in regards to some of our zoning issues.

2088
01:38:51,840 --> 01:38:54,840
I don't I know this is a very dear issue to you.

2089
01:38:54,840 --> 01:38:56,840
We spent quite a bit of time.

2090
01:38:56,840 --> 01:39:02,250
Are we capable of doing a subcommittee of that and let some

2091
01:39:02,250 --> 01:39:06,460
of our commissioners that would like to spend some more

2092
01:39:06,460 --> 01:39:09,840
time on that and streamline this process some to do that.

2093
01:39:09,840 --> 01:39:13,779
I want to know what that is really because the reason why

2094
01:39:13,779 --> 01:39:17,899
we don't have a committee currently looking oversight

2095
01:39:17,899 --> 01:39:23,409
specific plans is because we have determined that that's

2096
01:39:23,409 --> 01:39:26,079
solely an engineering function because it has to do with

2097
01:39:26,079 --> 01:39:26,840
the design.

2098
01:39:26,840 --> 01:39:28,840
So and you want to stay away from that.

2099
01:39:28,840 --> 01:39:33,359
And for the benefit of the board, I just want to say that

2100
01:39:33,359 --> 01:39:36,260
we don't want to have public officials practicing

2101
01:39:36,260 --> 01:39:38,840
engineering who aren't professional engineers.

2102
01:39:38,840 --> 01:39:42,479
Excuse me. I've had that argument with legal and it doesn't

2103
01:39:42,479 --> 01:39:42,840
fly.

2104
01:39:42,840 --> 01:39:48,399
I'm not suggesting we look at rebarbed and engineering

2105
01:39:48,399 --> 01:39:48,840
drawings.

2106
01:39:48,840 --> 01:39:51,810
Materials are not the only thing that goes into engineering

2107
01:39:51,810 --> 01:39:51,840
.

2108
01:39:51,840 --> 01:39:52,840
Excuse me.

2109
01:39:52,840 --> 01:39:53,840
But we look at plot plans.

2110
01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:56,840
How far away something is from an intersection.

2111
01:39:56,840 --> 01:39:58,840
I disagree with that.

2112
01:39:58,840 --> 01:40:02,000
So I mean that's something else you and I can take up and

2113
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:05,079
we can talk to you about that and issue an opinion if we

2114
01:40:05,079 --> 01:40:05,840
need to.

2115
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:09,720
But I'm just letting the rest of the board know why we

2116
01:40:09,720 --> 01:40:14,250
haven't historically had such as a committee or commission

2117
01:40:14,250 --> 01:40:18,840
on things like that.

2118
01:40:18,840 --> 01:40:20,840
Commissioner has been tried.

2119
01:40:20,840 --> 01:40:21,840
Sorry.

2120
01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:26,840
I was packed up and everything.

2121
01:40:26,840 --> 01:40:29,840
Here's here's my thought to the I.

2122
01:40:29,840 --> 01:40:35,840
I get the heart of what Commissioner Duttle with the same

2123
01:40:35,840 --> 01:40:40,500
the linear side of my brain says, yeah, no, I don't I don't

2124
01:40:40,500 --> 01:40:42,840
want to know any of what PS knows.

2125
01:40:42,840 --> 01:40:43,840
I don't want to know any of it.

2126
01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:45,840
I mean, it's just it's too much.

2127
01:40:45,840 --> 01:40:50,880
And in addition to that, I would make a point to you, Mr. D

2128
01:40:50,880 --> 01:40:52,840
uttle, which that while your point is valid.

2129
01:40:52,840 --> 01:40:53,840
And again, I grew up in that area.

2130
01:40:53,840 --> 01:40:58,180
So I've ridden bikes up and down that road since Long John

2131
01:40:58,180 --> 01:40:59,840
Sivils was there.

2132
01:40:59,840 --> 01:41:01,840
But my thought is that same thought.

2133
01:41:01,840 --> 01:41:04,859
Take that same example of someone from vintage driving

2134
01:41:04,859 --> 01:41:06,840
their car towards Albertsons.

2135
01:41:06,840 --> 01:41:09,840
And now it's a six lane road or whatever it's going to be.

2136
01:41:09,840 --> 01:41:13,880
And they're turning across traffic and you got traffic from

2137
01:41:13,880 --> 01:41:14,840
the north.

2138
01:41:14,840 --> 01:41:17,960
I mean, I think there's factors in there that I'm not

2139
01:41:17,960 --> 01:41:21,229
saying it's the best for the businesses, but I'm also

2140
01:41:21,229 --> 01:41:22,840
telling you it's a fact.

2141
01:41:22,840 --> 01:41:26,479
I drive by Chinatown Cafe, whatever those other three

2142
01:41:26,479 --> 01:41:27,840
businesses face.

2143
01:41:27,840 --> 01:41:30,430
And I mean, you can't I've never seen that parking lot full

2144
01:41:30,430 --> 01:41:33,840
ever, ever in the 20 years I've lived on that street.

2145
01:41:33,840 --> 01:41:34,840
So I get it.

2146
01:41:34,840 --> 01:41:37,840
But we have to balance it with reality.

2147
01:41:37,840 --> 01:41:41,840
I balance it with I don't know the curb cuts.

2148
01:41:41,840 --> 01:41:42,840
I don't know the distances.

2149
01:41:42,840 --> 01:41:43,840
I don't know that stuff.

2150
01:41:43,840 --> 01:41:45,840
I think your input is valid.

2151
01:41:45,840 --> 01:41:50,300
But I also think you have to put a practical application to

2152
01:41:50,300 --> 01:41:50,840
it.

2153
01:41:50,840 --> 01:41:53,680
So I'd love to talk to those businesses, and I'd love them

2154
01:41:53,680 --> 01:41:56,399
to explain to me the day that their parking lot was full

2155
01:41:56,399 --> 01:41:57,840
because I didn't see it.

2156
01:41:57,840 --> 01:41:58,840
Excuse me.

2157
01:41:58,840 --> 01:41:59,840
I have a business there.

2158
01:41:59,840 --> 01:41:59,840
Sure.

2159
01:41:59,840 --> 01:42:02,840
I know that parking lot gets full at noon.

2160
01:42:02,840 --> 01:42:03,840
At noon?

2161
01:42:03,840 --> 01:42:04,840
Yes, thank you very much.

2162
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:04,840
Okay.

2163
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:06,840
So the impact is real.

2164
01:42:06,840 --> 01:42:09,720
And I have looked at and judged that issue from a practical

2165
01:42:09,720 --> 01:42:10,840
ity standpoint.

2166
01:42:10,840 --> 01:42:11,840
It doesn't make sense.

2167
01:42:11,840 --> 01:42:19,520
We have six lane roads with turn lanes available right now

2168
01:42:19,520 --> 01:42:21,840
on 380.

2169
01:42:21,840 --> 01:42:22,840
It can be done.

2170
01:42:22,840 --> 01:42:25,340
I'm not saying anything else, but it just it doesn't make

2171
01:42:25,340 --> 01:42:25,840
sense.

2172
01:42:25,840 --> 01:42:29,180
And maybe at the end of the day, some things will make

2173
01:42:29,180 --> 01:42:29,840
sense.

2174
01:42:29,840 --> 01:42:32,659
But we need to have at least a review of it and then not

2175
01:42:32,659 --> 01:42:35,789
let just one department have a carte blanche rule over it

2176
01:42:35,789 --> 01:42:37,840
and say you don't have any input.

2177
01:42:37,840 --> 01:42:38,840
That's my point.

2178
01:42:38,840 --> 01:42:40,840
And they may, excuse me.

2179
01:42:40,840 --> 01:42:43,840
They do try to get input by having neighborhood meetings.

2180
01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:46,350
But when you're at that meeting and someone answers me with

2181
01:42:46,350 --> 01:42:47,840
, well, you can't change it.

2182
01:42:47,840 --> 01:42:49,840
It's a done deal.

2183
01:42:49,840 --> 01:42:51,840
That's not an acceptable answer.

2184
01:42:51,840 --> 01:42:53,840
Not to a citizen who pays taxes.

2185
01:42:53,840 --> 01:42:54,840
I'm sorry.

2186
01:42:54,840 --> 01:42:55,840
I'm very passionate about it.

2187
01:42:55,840 --> 01:42:56,840
I'm sorry for that.

2188
01:42:56,840 --> 01:42:59,840
But this is a real one.

2189
01:42:59,840 --> 01:43:02,289
And it's going to continue if we're going to start to

2190
01:43:02,289 --> 01:43:03,840
improve our city streets.

2191
01:43:03,840 --> 01:43:07,479
And also within this plan, they plan to take a portion of

2192
01:43:07,479 --> 01:43:09,840
property that's going to impact business.

2193
01:43:09,840 --> 01:43:10,840
I have a business there.

2194
01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:13,439
It's going to impact my business and there's other

2195
01:43:13,439 --> 01:43:14,840
businesses there too.

2196
01:43:14,840 --> 01:43:21,840
Just to mention, Tex.DOT, expanding I-35 from 635, they're

2197
01:43:21,840 --> 01:43:24,840
buying out so much property to expand the road.

2198
01:43:24,840 --> 01:43:29,840
Motels, gas stations, other businesses out there.

2199
01:43:29,840 --> 01:43:34,920
And I think there's close to four or $500 million set aside

2200
01:43:34,920 --> 01:43:38,840
to pay for those properties as they acquire them.

2201
01:43:38,840 --> 01:43:41,930
Either sometimes that business will have nothing left, so

2202
01:43:41,930 --> 01:43:43,840
they have to pay for the business.

2203
01:43:43,840 --> 01:43:48,140
And that's all part of the evaluation process that they

2204
01:43:48,140 --> 01:43:49,840
have to go through.

2205
01:43:49,840 --> 01:43:50,840
Commissioner Tyler.

2206
01:43:50,840 --> 01:43:51,840
Thank you, Chair.

2207
01:43:51,840 --> 01:43:56,810
I think this is a broader issue than a single intersection

2208
01:43:56,810 --> 01:43:58,840
or a single curb cut.

2209
01:43:58,840 --> 01:44:03,569
You know, engineering is full of very smart people who know

2210
01:44:03,569 --> 01:44:04,840
their stuff.

2211
01:44:04,840 --> 01:44:08,840
They're all certified and experts in what they do.

2212
01:44:08,840 --> 01:44:15,840
But there is room in this for citizen input, if you will,

2213
01:44:15,840 --> 01:44:17,840
or some level of citizen oversight.

2214
01:44:17,840 --> 01:44:20,619
And it won't be, I don't like, I think you need to move

2215
01:44:20,619 --> 01:44:22,840
this 20 feet or that 20 feet.

2216
01:44:22,840 --> 01:44:25,609
It will be, let's look at other solutions to these

2217
01:44:25,609 --> 01:44:26,840
challenges here.

2218
01:44:26,840 --> 01:44:29,840
Especially, it's context-sensitive design.

2219
01:44:29,840 --> 01:44:33,020
So whenever you're going into an area that's got a 40-foot

2220
01:44:33,020 --> 01:44:36,109
built street and now it needs to become a collector, well,

2221
01:44:36,109 --> 01:44:37,840
how do we cram a collector into 40 feet?

2222
01:44:37,840 --> 01:44:40,840
What can we do to mitigate the traffic issues?

2223
01:44:40,840 --> 01:44:44,479
You know, the engineering standards and AASHTO and our own

2224
01:44:44,479 --> 01:44:47,489
design standards will say this is what it needs to look

2225
01:44:47,489 --> 01:44:47,840
like.

2226
01:44:47,840 --> 01:44:50,840
And we must have 500 feet to the nearest curb cut.

2227
01:44:50,840 --> 01:44:53,729
We must have, you know, 200 feet from the corners to the

2228
01:44:53,729 --> 01:44:54,840
nearest driveway.

2229
01:44:54,840 --> 01:44:58,479
And the engineering will, you know, it's their job to

2230
01:44:58,479 --> 01:44:59,840
follow those standards.

2231
01:44:59,840 --> 01:45:04,649
And those standards are put in place by city council and

2232
01:45:04,649 --> 01:45:07,840
other citizen oversight groups.

2233
01:45:07,840 --> 01:45:11,520
But there is room in that process probably for some

2234
01:45:11,520 --> 01:45:12,840
flexibility.

2235
01:45:12,840 --> 01:45:16,399
And it might be, there might be things where you can't put

2236
01:45:16,399 --> 01:45:17,840
a curb cut in there.

2237
01:45:17,840 --> 01:45:20,369
And there's a really good safety reason or a really good,

2238
01:45:20,369 --> 01:45:21,840
you know, whatever reason.

2239
01:45:21,840 --> 01:45:25,579
But I think it would still be better to have some way of

2240
01:45:25,579 --> 01:45:26,840
hearing that.

2241
01:45:26,840 --> 01:45:29,090
I struggle with this because I agree, but I don't know if

2242
01:45:29,090 --> 01:45:29,840
it's planning.

2243
01:45:29,840 --> 01:45:31,840
I don't think it's planning and zoning.

2244
01:45:31,840 --> 01:45:33,840
I don't know who it would be.

2245
01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:36,739
And it needs to be part of the process because it needs to

2246
01:45:36,739 --> 01:45:39,640
not hang up engineering for six weeks every time they want

2247
01:45:39,640 --> 01:45:41,840
to, you know, publish a design.

2248
01:45:41,840 --> 01:45:45,399
It needs to be something where it just, it flows right

2249
01:45:45,399 --> 01:45:46,840
through in the process.

2250
01:45:46,840 --> 01:45:49,840
And you have some oversight and some steering.

2251
01:45:49,840 --> 01:45:51,840
And it's not, it shouldn't be contentious.

2252
01:45:51,840 --> 01:45:55,659
It should be a way of making sure that, you know, the

2253
01:45:55,659 --> 01:45:59,840
community's values are represented in the designs.

2254
01:45:59,840 --> 01:46:02,859
And so questions and a little bit of discussion will happen

2255
01:46:02,859 --> 01:46:05,840
and then the concerns will be addressed, you know.

2256
01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:10,060
And context sensitive design is really what that's all

2257
01:46:10,060 --> 01:46:10,840
about.

2258
01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:12,840
And I don't know how we're going to implement it here.

2259
01:46:12,840 --> 01:46:16,479
And I don't know if it's going to have some kind of citizen

2260
01:46:16,479 --> 01:46:18,840
oversight beyond a set of rules in the DDC.

2261
01:46:18,840 --> 01:46:22,619
But I do think there is space there without overriding what

2262
01:46:22,619 --> 01:46:25,680
, you know, having somebody who's not an engineer tell an

2263
01:46:25,680 --> 01:46:31,479
engineer, you know, how they need to build something or

2264
01:46:31,479 --> 01:46:34,840
something like that.

2265
01:46:34,840 --> 01:46:35,840
Okay.

2266
01:46:35,840 --> 01:46:36,840
It's been a great discussion.

2267
01:46:36,840 --> 01:46:40,840
Any other questions or comments before we close?

2268
01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:43,840
So am I good to go in the next meeting?

2269
01:46:43,840 --> 01:46:48,840
I was going to ask a question.

2270
01:46:48,840 --> 01:46:49,840
I think so.

2271
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:56,840
Yes.

2272
01:46:56,840 --> 01:46:58,840
Frank's the one you need to ask.

2273
01:46:58,840 --> 01:47:00,840
Yes.

2274
01:47:00,840 --> 01:47:03,840
I think I understand the conceptual.

2275
01:47:03,840 --> 01:47:09,390
I'll bring these up from my side and I will bring it up to

2276
01:47:09,390 --> 01:47:14,630
people in the city so they can come back and they will see

2277
01:47:14,630 --> 01:47:16,840
what they need to do with all this.

2278
01:47:16,840 --> 01:47:17,840
And I agree.

2279
01:47:17,840 --> 01:47:20,840
Commissioner Gattowicz.

2280
01:47:20,840 --> 01:47:25,840
I'm taking this up with council, mayor and Anita.

2281
01:47:25,840 --> 01:47:29,399
Because I've heard around the state these issues have come

2282
01:47:29,399 --> 01:47:32,770
up and some learned people have suggested a place to put

2283
01:47:32,770 --> 01:47:35,840
that oversight in place and we may review that.

2284
01:47:35,840 --> 01:47:39,390
But again, I'm just making sure the coals are staying warm

2285
01:47:39,390 --> 01:47:42,840
so that when it flares up, we have an understanding.

2286
01:47:42,840 --> 01:47:45,520
If it ever comes back to us, the other council or

2287
01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:48,840
commissioners have an idea why this is so important.

2288
01:47:48,840 --> 01:47:49,840
Okay.

2289
01:47:49,840 --> 01:47:50,840
Thank you.

2290
01:47:50,840 --> 01:47:54,659
Thank you for the special session to answer a lot of

2291
01:47:54,659 --> 01:47:55,840
questions.

2292
01:47:55,840 --> 01:47:59,539
I know we've had a lot of questions and comments about

2293
01:47:59,539 --> 01:48:02,840
mobility over the last number of meetings.

2294
01:48:02,840 --> 01:48:05,199
So thank you for the extra time this evening to get those

2295
01:48:05,199 --> 01:48:05,840
answered.

2296
01:48:05,840 --> 01:48:08,840
And I'm looking forward to our next meeting.

2297
01:48:08,840 --> 01:48:11,590
We'll be able to have your presentation in public and

2298
01:48:11,590 --> 01:48:14,840
hopefully be able to move that forward on to city council.

2299
01:48:14,840 --> 01:48:16,840
I know you're anxious to be able to move that forward.

2300
01:48:16,840 --> 01:48:21,260
So with that, seeing no other questions or comments, we'll

2301
01:48:21,260 --> 01:48:24,840
close the work session tonight at 720.

2302
01:48:24,840 --> 01:48:26,840
Thank you.