WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.520 Planning and zoning Commission work session together 00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:08.689 We have this meeting has been duly noticed and we have a qu 00:00:08.689 --> 00:00:10.279 orum present 00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:14.869 Our first item of business is going to be to receive a 00:00:14.869 --> 00:00:15.800 report on 00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:20.239 PZ 15 - point zero to five 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:23.960 Clarification of agenda items 00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:29.339 Let me back up we're going to do the clarification of 00:00:29.339 --> 00:00:32.159 agenda items and then we'll go to our work session reports 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:35.039 Thank you 00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:37.820 Person if I may take the liberty and opportunity to 00:00:37.820 --> 00:00:41.270 introduce two new team members to our development services 00:00:41.270 --> 00:00:42.780 planning department specifically 00:00:43.079 --> 00:00:45.960 We have made several enhancements to our team as you are 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:48.119 all aware. We have created the long-range planning 00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:48.880 component 00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:51.789 That's officially underway behind some of the commissioners 00:00:51.789 --> 00:00:53.119 in front of some of the commissioners 00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:55.710 We have Ron Mungita who has assumed the role of long-range 00:00:55.710 --> 00:00:56.920 planning administrator 00:00:57.200 --> 00:00:59.750 So that we can move forward with implementing the elements 00:00:59.750 --> 00:01:02.640 of the long-range plan that we had have discussed several 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:02.920 times 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:05.920 I would also like to introduce in the back. We have Shand 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:08.040 rian Jarvis. She is our planning supervisor 00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:11.329 She will be working on development review and we also have 00:01:11.329 --> 00:01:13.939 Beverly's end who is our DRC administrator 00:01:14.239 --> 00:01:16.609 Please do welcome her and feel free to call them and ask 00:01:16.609 --> 00:01:19.079 them any questions that you have as we move forward 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:22.040 Welcome 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:25.019 Thank you. That being said we'll go ahead and discuss the 00:01:25.019 --> 00:01:27.319 first few items on our workshop 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:30.090 Which are the final which the first one is the final plat 00:01:30.090 --> 00:01:32.659 for epic addition. I'm going to ask Julie Wyatt to 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:35.579 Go ahead and present that and go over the elements 00:01:35.579 --> 00:01:37.000 associated with that plat 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:43.920 We have two plats going forward for epic addition the 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:48.930 preliminary plat and the final plat are both coming forward 00:01:48.930 --> 00:01:50.540 to you tonight 00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:54.040 So if you recall 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:08.879 If you recall a few months ago you had an SUP come before 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:13.840 you for an apartment complex 00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:18.599 That is located in about the unicorn Lake area. So this is 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:20.439 just they they received their SUP 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:23.789 From City Council. So they're just coming forward with 00:02:23.789 --> 00:02:24.360 their plat 00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:27.520 They do have some access easements that allow them to 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:31.879 access the property for both 35 and also down to Wind River 00:02:31.879 --> 00:02:35.280 And then they've also provided access through the property 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:38.189 So I'll answer any questions and both the final plat and 00:02:38.189 --> 00:02:41.080 the preliminary plat are in conformance with each other 00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:43.639 So if you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them 00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:49.520 Good 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:51.520 Commissioner back 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:55.159 I would just choose we don't know what use is going to be 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:55.919 used for it 00:02:55.919 --> 00:02:58.900 It will be multi it will actually be mixed use and there 00:02:58.900 --> 00:02:59.599 will be some 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:03.150 Office and restaurant use but the primary use on the on the 00:03:03.150 --> 00:03:05.080 property will be multifamily 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:09.530 Okay, so maybe two-story apartment. I believe it's three 00:03:09.530 --> 00:03:10.520 story apartments 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:13.789 There was a site plan associated with the SUP that was 00:03:13.789 --> 00:03:15.120 approved and so this 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:18.879 This layout is in conformance with that site plan 00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:21.520 That was approved 00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:24.360 Commissioner Briggle, thank you chair 00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:27.680 Julia when we had approved this a few months ago 00:03:28.759 --> 00:03:32.689 there was a suggestion to create a connecting road for any 00:03:32.689 --> 00:03:34.120 future development to 00:03:34.599 --> 00:03:37.800 The left side, I guess of this flat if I'm looking at them 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:41.240 Was it it was going to be towards I can't 00:03:48.159 --> 00:03:50.159 So I was just I'm 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:52.580 There I know there are no developments to the West 00:03:52.580 --> 00:03:56.240 currently, but that was for any future connectivity 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:00.419 Why is that not shown on this plat and I would have to go 00:04:00.419 --> 00:04:02.000 back and look at it 00:04:03.159 --> 00:04:05.949 Listen to the the meetings or read or read the minutes from 00:04:05.949 --> 00:04:06.919 that meeting 00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:10.479 We typically don't require the connectivity to the adjacent 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:13.500 property because it could develop in a commercial 00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:16.300 You know with a commercial use that you wouldn't want 00:04:16.300 --> 00:04:19.439 necessarily want that connectivity with the apartments. So 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:22.740 So I would have to go back but no this plat doesn't show 00:04:22.740 --> 00:04:25.259 that connectivity and if you wanted to 00:04:26.759 --> 00:04:29.319 Wait to approve it we could certainly go back and look at 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:29.480 that 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:32.000 I'm wondering if we can maybe review exactly what it was 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:33.839 that we had approved that evening because I 00:04:34.279 --> 00:04:36.279 Remember because I was the one that made the suggestion 00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:39.899 that this was going to be like a mixed-use kind of area 00:04:40.519 --> 00:04:42.360 they wanted 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:45.439 But a lot of the the driving was going to be done within 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:47.000 this particular property 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:51.120 And I had suggested that there'd be some connectivity to 00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:54.439 the west side for any people that might want to perhaps 00:04:54.439 --> 00:04:54.879 walk 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:58.360 I remember walking and yeah, there could there there could 00:04:58.360 --> 00:05:00.709 be sidewalks associated with the site plan that aren't 00:05:00.709 --> 00:05:01.959 necessarily in an easement 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:04.540 Okay, and actually now that I'm saying this out loud. I 00:05:04.540 --> 00:05:05.319 remember it was a sidewalk 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:11.550 So with sidewalks be that would that would be later on in 00:05:11.550 --> 00:05:12.879 the site plan and not in them 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:15.470 It would be a part of the building permit. Okay. I thank 00:05:15.470 --> 00:05:18.160 you. Sorry. No, that's okay back. All right. Thanks 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:20.610 Commissioner dead awaits. I remember part of that 00:05:20.610 --> 00:05:22.879 discussion the sidewalks were to access 00:05:23.319 --> 00:05:27.399 south into the Centermark area parking lots into the 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:30.040 adjacent I 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:32.040 Think there's BJ's some restaurants 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:32.279 Yes, sir 00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:35.170 The west side and the issue that they came up from the 00:05:35.170 --> 00:05:38.120 property owner to the west was that's a professional 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:40.319 building and their professional 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:43.680 They own that property and they would be opposed to having 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:44.120 across 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:47.959 Traffic going in through their parking lot back into Wind 00:05:47.959 --> 00:05:51.540 River. I don't know the outcome of that, but I remember 00:05:51.540 --> 00:05:52.079 that part 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:54.579 Yeah, thanks for jogging my memory. I just remember that 00:05:54.579 --> 00:05:56.500 there was some form of connectivity to the west 00:05:56.500 --> 00:05:58.740 So I remember sidewalks now that you mentioned it 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:03.860 Chair's gonna chime in as I recall to your point on the 00:06:03.860 --> 00:06:05.079 property to the west 00:06:05.639 --> 00:06:09.250 The business park that would be to the west of this and 00:06:09.250 --> 00:06:09.800 south 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:14.399 Yes, there's a street stub as I recall back in behind that 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:16.839 that accesses that property to the west 00:06:16.839 --> 00:06:19.519 It's not well, this will be emergency access 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:22.959 Main access farther west farther. Okay. Yes 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:27.959 There was a back in behind Alan Nelson's and Pete McCleskey 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:28.639 's office 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:31.120 There's a street stub that accesses that property to the 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:31.420 west 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:35.899 If I recall commissioner Duddle and so that means that they 00:06:35.899 --> 00:06:37.879 would eventually put us in there 00:06:37.879 --> 00:06:40.879 They could they could they could attach to it. Okay, and a 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:42.339 property owner there would 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:47.959 Negate it or prove it or what I believe there were existing 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:50.980 Access easements like all of these have shared access eas 00:06:50.980 --> 00:06:53.920 ements, right? So the owners of the office park 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:56.879 I believe have some shared access easements. So that's 00:06:56.879 --> 00:06:57.279 already 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:01.029 If the easements are there and it's plotted it's fine, but 00:07:01.029 --> 00:07:04.240 it doesn't but to someone's point it's not noted 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:07.279 Any other questions on this item? 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:11.240 Thank you, Julie, thank you 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:14.939 Judy's gonna go ahead and present the next plant and 00:07:14.939 --> 00:07:18.399 preliminary plot for Brentwood Place Edition 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:30.639 All right 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:37.279 So this plot is located off of 377 north of Riney Road 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:41.259 It is a townhome development and they are plotting 00:07:41.259 --> 00:07:44.850 I believe it is a hundred and seventy four residential lots 00:07:44.850 --> 00:07:46.920 and open in seven open space lots 00:07:48.600 --> 00:07:50.600 It will not be a gated community 00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:55.839 Commissioner back are these what we'd call zero lot lines 00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:57.040 in other words 00:07:57.920 --> 00:07:59.839 ones property ends 00:07:59.839 --> 00:08:01.839 There's no there's nothing in between 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:05.209 They'll be townhomes and in the didn't development code you 00:08:05.209 --> 00:08:05.920 can have eight 00:08:06.519 --> 00:08:10.000 townhomes that are attached within a unit so 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:13.480 so the the townhomes will 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:16.720 The eight units will be a part of one building 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:19.389 So I don't know if it would be considered necessary a zero 00:08:19.389 --> 00:08:21.600 lot line, but it would be a townhome type of element 00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:29.920 Commissioner Taylor, thank you chair 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:34.519 we rarely get townhomes in Denton and I 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:38.029 Think this is an interesting neighborhood to place them, 00:08:38.029 --> 00:08:40.639 but I do have just some general questions regarding them 00:08:40.639 --> 00:08:41.679 sure the 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:44.940 What are our rules on parking access like parking are they 00:08:44.940 --> 00:08:48.759 are these going to have be required to have garages and? 00:08:49.440 --> 00:08:52.289 Would that be in the front or the back or it's it has an 00:08:52.289 --> 00:08:55.639 alley so they will be rear access the 00:08:56.600 --> 00:08:58.600 residential site design guidelines 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:03.169 Require that the garage only take up 40% of the front 00:09:03.169 --> 00:09:06.039 facade of a residential building 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:08.799 So the garages will actually be in the back and it will be 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:11.559 accessed through alley with your with a car 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:15.580 So in that 40% is that 40% of the ground level or is that 00:09:15.580 --> 00:09:18.539 40% of the if you have a four-story building for example 00:09:18.539 --> 00:09:22.679 Could you have a one-story continuous garage and you less 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:24.440 than for Alec Manali if I'm not mistaken 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:26.409 It is the ground level so you would have to have that 00:09:26.409 --> 00:09:28.919 relief in your front elevation without taking into account 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:30.039 the entire mass 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:32.679 Of that front elevation so it would be a first story front 00:09:32.679 --> 00:09:33.159 elevation 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:36.309 And I understand so this one is going to have alley access 00:09:36.309 --> 00:09:40.500 and garages in the back in another townhome development 00:09:40.500 --> 00:09:43.269 Would there be a requirement that there be garages in each 00:09:43.269 --> 00:09:43.559 unit? 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:48.419 We I'm going to have to double check that code we don't 00:09:48.419 --> 00:09:49.720 require garages 00:09:49.720 --> 00:09:53.289 We do require two parking spaces per single-family resident 00:09:53.289 --> 00:09:56.080 or single-family residential dwelling 00:09:56.120 --> 00:09:59.309 So if they don't have a garage they would have to have at 00:09:59.309 --> 00:10:02.649 least a parking pad that could accommodate to my right on 00:10:02.649 --> 00:10:03.080 that mental 00:10:03.080 --> 00:10:07.600 - cars so I'm still a garage and in that case it would be 00:10:08.039 --> 00:10:10.039 Possible that those would be in the front. Yes 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:12.759 Thank you 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:15.639 Any other questions on this item 00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:19.200 Thank You Julie 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:22.679 That every moving on to our next final plan for a mission 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:26.240 Street edition. I'm going to ask Ross Culbertson to go 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:26.980 ahead and 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:31.639 Present this 00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:59.320 . Julie. Can I have your assistance real quick? 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:21.720 So close 00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:31.360 Simply this is a 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:36.240 commercial final plats for a single tenant office use on 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:37.440 one lot 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:42.289 The plaque forms to the DDC and staff recommends approval 00:11:42.289 --> 00:11:43.539 the use is 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:48.399 Tied to an individual owner who wants to build his own 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:51.080 office building on one lot. So with that 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:54.320 If you have any questions, I'll stand for you 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:00.440 Questions on this side 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:03.399 Thanks, sir, thank you 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:08.799 Thank you, Ross, Judy's gonna come back and present final 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:10.600 plot for North Park phase 2a I 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:16.240 Don't have this one on the screen there was a change made 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:16.580 to it 00:12:16.580 --> 00:12:19.570 So it was actually at each of your spots except for you Man 00:12:19.570 --> 00:12:21.519 al. I apologize. I didn't bring enough coffee 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.700 There was one plat note that was removed 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:28.309 It was it was left there in error as a residual plat note 00:12:28.309 --> 00:12:30.159 from the preliminary plat 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:33.840 So plat note 6 has been removed, but this is the first 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:35.720 phase for Old North Park 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:38.279 phase 2 and 00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:41.110 If you recall this was a zoning case that came before you 00:12:41.110 --> 00:12:43.960 about this time last year and so they're they're beginning 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:44.720 and it will be 00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:47.259 Single-family homes and I'll answer any questions 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:52.720 Questions on this item I 00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:57.509 Have one and I'm trying to find that's the joy of 00:12:57.509 --> 00:13:00.039 electronics not being a mark on it. I 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:03.279 Made a note 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:06.570 Somewhere I think it was in one of the details. Maybe it 00:13:06.570 --> 00:13:07.440 was on the plat 00:13:08.360 --> 00:13:10.360 about paving materials 00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:15.240 Do we have any idea what's to go in here on these two lots 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:16.960 9 and 28? 00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:22.120 temporary it will be temporary and it will be paving will 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:23.679 be sufficient to 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:26.720 accommodate the weight of a fire truck or 00:13:27.639 --> 00:13:29.639 emergency vehicles those will actually 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:33.419 Be accessed for a temporary basis until phase 2 comes about 00:13:33.419 --> 00:13:36.960 and a replat comes back before you and those will be then 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:40.490 Transitioned back to a residential lot. These are just here 00:13:40.490 --> 00:13:41.480 for fire access 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:44.370 I understand what they're for are they gravel or are they 00:13:44.370 --> 00:13:47.559 concrete? They'll be concrete. Okay, so it's a concrete 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:50.169 Temporary street that they're going to put in and they'll 00:13:50.169 --> 00:13:53.440 remove off of these lots when they do the next phase. Okay. 00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:54.120 Thank you. Sure 00:13:58.159 --> 00:13:59.600 Anybody else 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:01.120 Commissioner Hudson 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:04.769 Thank you. I have a I guess it falls under legal question 00:14:04.769 --> 00:14:08.679 and it's going to relate to some other topics. What is 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:13.960 What is the relief for the city with regards to HOA's? 00:14:14.159 --> 00:14:17.840 So and it for example, for instance this says easement 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:19.879 shall be maintained by the HOA 00:14:19.879 --> 00:14:24.100 Is there a deposit they put down or is there and so what is 00:14:24.100 --> 00:14:26.879 the enforcement capability of the city? 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:30.139 So you're shifting that responsibility, but then what is 00:14:30.139 --> 00:14:32.159 the enforcement mechanism for that? 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:36.220 There is an enforcement mechanism. There's a private right 00:14:36.220 --> 00:14:38.059 of action that we could do to 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:41.440 enforce equitable 00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:45.929 Covenants on other land, especially if there's an HOA, but 00:14:45.929 --> 00:14:48.639 we don't necessarily exercise it ever 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:52.139 Generally, they're gonna have to go by the restrictions or 00:14:52.139 --> 00:14:55.240 the HOA can enforce it through fines and foreclosure 00:14:55.840 --> 00:14:58.799 but in some instances we do have 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:02.679 property where the HOA has failed to do that or the HOA 00:15:02.679 --> 00:15:05.000 becomes abandoned or disbanded and 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:08.320 then sometimes we often do have to step in and 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:13.009 Have some sort of code action or try to enforce it 00:15:13.009 --> 00:15:13.879 privately 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:16.559 in a public manner 00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:22.720 Follow-up question. So what is what is so getting to it? So 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:25.600 monetarily what is the what is the end result? 00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:29.399 So if I if I take their land then there's their fire sale 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:32.240 How do you how do we get compensated and only ask because 00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:34.759 oftentimes I'll see that the city will say 00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:38.580 We don't have it in the budget to send a crew out or works. 00:15:38.580 --> 00:15:39.019 We're 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:42.720 taking on an additional expense and 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:47.080 So their land doesn't satisfy that expense 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:51.629 Usually you have to do the labor in advance or the city 00:15:51.629 --> 00:15:55.080 will have to be on the hook for the labor so like if it's 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:55.440 something 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:58.320 Where we have to get an outside person to come in and take 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:01.679 things off the land or remove it like rubbish and even of a 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:01.960 fire 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:03.799 If they have to demolish a structure 00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:06.820 Then we're gonna have to go ahead and pay for that and then 00:16:06.820 --> 00:16:09.279 file a lien against the property any work that we do 00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:10.600 It's gonna be a labor lien 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:13.629 we can also get civil penalties in that matter and that'll 00:16:13.629 --> 00:16:17.519 be reduced to a judicial lien on the property and then in 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:21.029 Some events we can foreclose on it as long as it's not like 00:16:21.029 --> 00:16:21.159 a 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:24.850 Homesteaded property we can foreclose and get our costs 00:16:24.850 --> 00:16:27.480 back based on the value of the property 00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:29.960 Which is the best we can do? 00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:31.960 Okay 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:35.409 Did I answer your question? Yes, but I'm thinking there's a 00:16:35.409 --> 00:16:37.039 I don't know what the form is 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:40.700 So I don't want to go outside the bounds. So I'll bring it 00:16:40.700 --> 00:16:41.820 up this evening 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:44.690 And during that they're in a closing session in that way I 00:16:44.690 --> 00:16:44.919 can 00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:47.440 Have a thought 00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:49.720 Thank you any other questions on this item? 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:54.820 Thank you Julie Ross is going to present the final plot for 00:16:54.820 --> 00:16:56.879 Terry tree Harry's tree house edition 00:16:58.519 --> 00:17:02.159 The evening this is a final plan for Terry's tree house we 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:05.460 Have worked with the applicants through the plan 00:17:05.460 --> 00:17:09.380 development a living process to bring forth the use on the 00:17:09.380 --> 00:17:10.079 property 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:12.400 This is the final plat that 00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:14.839 records easements 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:18.250 Specific to that use it's in conformance with the DIN 00:17:18.250 --> 00:17:21.619 development code and all city departments and so staffs 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:24.160 recommending approval on the final plan 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:30.920 Any questions on this item 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:37.200 I've got a comment 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.599 I think when this came before us this is the parcel that's 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:41.299 back behind 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.990 7-eleven that's going to be the daycare center. We had a 00:17:44.990 --> 00:17:46.140 lot of discussion about 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:49.930 I believe there were a couple options that were given to 00:17:49.930 --> 00:17:51.700 them correct either a curb 00:17:52.279 --> 00:17:54.880 Is that addressed in this it's addressed in the building 00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:57.960 permits with the site plan and it affects a 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:03.039 Landscape area curbed area on this side of the fire so it's 00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:06.839 not on this but it's in correct. Okay. Thank you 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:12.240 We'll go ahead and close out the plots first we have a 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:14.240 final replant for our shrimp edition 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:16.250 And I'm going to ask Julie to go ahead and present that 00:18:16.250 --> 00:18:17.039 before we dive into 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:29.109 All right, since this is a since this is a replat it does 00:18:29.109 --> 00:18:31.680 have to have a public hearing per the Texas local 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:32.119 government code 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:35.000 So we'll be going over this in the public hearing but this 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:37.019 is a replat of the 00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:41.079 Ashram edition a lot one block a that 00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:44.680 They're taking in some unplatted property in order to 00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:47.880 construct a shade structure so they can have yoga classes 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:48.440 outside 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:55.509 Any questions on this item this is not enough in our deck 00:18:55.509 --> 00:18:58.039 it is it should be but it's a public hearing 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:01.240 That's why it's in it's further on in your packet. Okay 00:19:01.880 --> 00:19:04.250 But I wanted to close out the plot since we were talking 00:19:04.250 --> 00:19:04.759 about them 00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:08.039 Any questions? 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:10.359 Thank you, Julie 00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:14.759 Just for the 00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:18.759 Commission's edification we do have an item that has been 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:21.250 continued to November 4th meeting and that's the public 00:19:21.250 --> 00:19:21.519 hearing 00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:24.210 To address procedural and government standards for the 00:19:24.210 --> 00:19:27.400 razor ranch development overlay district. So that is being 00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:32.190 postponed and with that the next item that we have before 00:19:32.190 --> 00:19:33.279 us is to discuss 00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:36.279 the 00:19:36.279 --> 00:19:38.279 Dent City of Denton's mobility plan 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.440 I believe PS is here to make that presentation or his 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:43.880 representative 00:19:46.119 --> 00:19:48.119 Okay 00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:55.279 Do you 00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:57.779 If someone would come to the podium so that if the 00:19:57.779 --> 00:20:00.200 Commission has any questions we can address those 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:06.960 I 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:12.680 Good afternoon Commission Jeff Whitaker 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:15.230 The presentation we plan to give in a public hearing is 00:20:15.230 --> 00:20:18.039 very similar to the presentation that you saw at the last 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:21.039 September 16th meeting I believe so we weren't going to re- 00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:23.890 give the presentation to you guys again now, but if there's 00:20:23.890 --> 00:20:24.720 any questions 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:27.480 from the Commission we would 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:29.960 Like to hear those before I recognize anybody 00:20:30.759 --> 00:20:34.759 We've had a couple of emails today. Would it be appropriate 00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:35.680 staff to 00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:38.690 Talk about those at this time or wait till our public 00:20:38.690 --> 00:20:39.640 hearing tonight 00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:43.539 Since this is a work session that addresses these items. It 00:20:43.539 --> 00:20:46.140 is appropriate to bring these up. Okay, great 00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:48.140 I think Commissioner Beck 00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:51.480 I guess my 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:54.000 one question I have anyway is are we 00:20:54.759 --> 00:20:58.140 approving this is going forward after tonight if we approve 00:20:58.140 --> 00:20:59.019 this I mean because 00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:02.920 As these two lit well at least one letter raised a concern 00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:06.039 One makes me look a little deeper. So are we in effect 00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:08.519 going to approve this and it's going to move forward or and 00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:09.640 if it moves forward 00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:14.250 Do we have other opportunities to say wait a minute, you 00:21:14.250 --> 00:21:14.400 know 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:20.890 I think the short answer we're looking to move forward to a 00:21:20.890 --> 00:21:21.799 council public hearing 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:24.059 If there are comments that are received now between now and 00:21:24.059 --> 00:21:26.180 the council public hearing we can entertain and address 00:21:26.180 --> 00:21:27.240 those so there's an issue 00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:29.240 There that people are concerned about 00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:32.299 And we got those emails and we have looked at them and we 00:21:32.299 --> 00:21:35.680 can we can discuss those in this work session as well 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:39.039 Okay, so we're not locking into something here that's going 00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:39.359 forward 00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:42.130 We're not going to change any UI shape or form. Yes, we are 00:21:42.130 --> 00:21:42.559 . Yeah 00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:46.000 It's actually on the agenda for tonight under item 5a is a 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:49.460 public hearing where you can take action on it tonight. 00:21:49.460 --> 00:21:49.880 Okay 00:21:50.440 --> 00:21:53.329 If you feel like what the information you have is 00:21:53.329 --> 00:21:56.410 inadequate or enough then you you can you know exercise 00:21:56.410 --> 00:21:58.319 your right to postpone it but 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:01.839 Sure 00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:03.319 Commissioner Dudowitz 00:22:03.319 --> 00:22:06.839 I'm with Larry. I'm not comfortable yet to make and this is 00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:09.440 just me speaking, but we do have three new 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:12.809 Commissioners here that and I've been through a couple of 00:22:12.809 --> 00:22:15.920 these presentations and I'm still kind of confused and 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:19.640 It's very it's been very vague and I see drawings 00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:22.279 streets that are I 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:25.480 Can't tell from this the detail and I'm very uncomfortable 00:22:26.079 --> 00:22:29.339 To take a vote to pass of the City Council that I'm still 00:22:29.339 --> 00:22:31.799 not sure what we're proving 00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:32.799 I haven't asked that question 00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:35.299 What is our role and what are we doing and we're supposed 00:22:35.299 --> 00:22:37.920 to be approving something that I'm not sure what I'm appro 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:38.279 ving 00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:43.029 And so I'm going to suggest that we either get in get more 00:22:43.029 --> 00:22:45.880 detail and or have other meetings on this 00:22:45.880 --> 00:22:47.880 But I'm not comfortable 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:51.880 With the scope of this and the vagueness of it all it's and 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:52.640 we got you know 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:55.579 Two emails today with detail that I'm wondering where they 00:22:55.579 --> 00:22:58.440 got that detail from because I haven't been exposed to it 00:22:58.440 --> 00:23:03.329 And is a you know as a as a commissioner here, where do I 00:23:03.329 --> 00:23:04.079 have to go to get it? 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:07.019 It seems that we're responsible for looking and searching 00:23:07.019 --> 00:23:08.799 for this data and it's not there 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:11.900 I mean I got a map that's similar to that and I spent three 00:23:11.900 --> 00:23:15.200 weeks looking at it and I defy anybody to tell me 00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:19.579 What this means and we got some nice colored pictures and 00:23:19.579 --> 00:23:22.200 we got some lines half the streets aren't labeled 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:26.339 And I don't know if what a second arterial is and what's 00:23:26.339 --> 00:23:28.680 that design what's a primary 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:33.089 It's it's for me. It's just still still too vague and too 00:23:33.089 --> 00:23:34.319 conceptual to 00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:37.849 Suggest there should be a vote to take the city council. 00:23:37.849 --> 00:23:40.119 Okay. I appreciate your comments 00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:42.720 I think I'd ask staff to maybe give us some 00:23:44.839 --> 00:23:47.559 Refresher on what the mobility plan is that it's not set in 00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:50.519 stone that it is a more of a concept 00:23:50.799 --> 00:23:53.220 Plan and I'd like to ask them to clarify some of those and 00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:55.079 maybe shed some light on some of the questions 00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:57.690 That will be part of the presentation today when the 00:23:57.690 --> 00:24:00.680 presentation is done. I'm sorry. I'm not 00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:04.130 Feeling that well, I've been out of country and so I put 00:24:04.130 --> 00:24:06.799 that to Jeff to do the presentation today 00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:10.839 He will go through the presentation. It is still a 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:14.400 And what you see on the map 00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:18.079 Is going to be a schematic in some ways 00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:22.289 It is going to be that way. It's not possible to put all 00:24:22.289 --> 00:24:24.680 the detail on a street on 00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:28.680 That scale a map for individual streets. There's no way to 00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:29.200 do that 00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:33.599 What you have is the base map that is already been there 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:34.599 for 00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:37.200 15 years 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:39.200 What we are doing is adding to it 00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:41.160 which is the 00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:44.759 Hills of Denton and some of the other MPCs and then also 00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:47.160 some of the other areas which have been 00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:48.759 annexed into the city 00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:52.339 We have added some streets in those areas. So what we are 00:24:52.339 --> 00:24:55.319 doing is just addition of some streets and the 00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:58.480 MPCs that have already been approved and the road layout 00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:01.480 has already been approved that has been added to the 00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:02.119 schematic 00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:05.079 primary arterials secondary arterials 00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:08.829 Collector streets we have cross sections on those in our 00:25:08.829 --> 00:25:12.599 criteria manual as to what each one of those 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.000 look like 00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:17.000 six lanes four lanes 00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:21.160 Two lanes with turn lanes, etc. They're in the criterion of 00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:22.599 the details of those 00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:25.319 Are those schematics? 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:28.220 In set in concrete or they just okay. Here's what we're 00:25:28.220 --> 00:25:29.759 thinking about. No, sir 00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:32.559 Those are already in the criterion manual. We are not 00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:34.039 making any changes to those 00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:38.369 They're already there. They've been there since the 2000. 00:25:38.369 --> 00:25:38.740 Okay 00:25:39.799 --> 00:25:42.799 Follow up please because I remember within that 00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:45.319 conversation that one of the 00:25:46.359 --> 00:25:49.289 commissioners suggested that there's a median in there, but 00:25:49.289 --> 00:25:51.160 it's as wide as a as a 00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:53.519 as a 00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:56.039 24 foot wide right away, but is standard and 00:25:57.799 --> 00:26:01.730 That's a standard I'll let Jeff talk about that and as to 00:26:01.730 --> 00:26:03.000 why the medians are why 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:07.869 There's two things one is the cross section the design menu 00:26:07.869 --> 00:26:08.640 . We're not looking to change 00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:11.140 We're looking at if you will for this for what you're 00:26:11.140 --> 00:26:14.200 proving today is we're looking at lines on a map to obtain 00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:15.359 right away to build 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:18.460 Roadways a cross section design change would be a different 00:26:18.460 --> 00:26:19.279 process than this 00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:21.890 But the reason of 24 foot is there and that's probably on 00:26:21.890 --> 00:26:24.559 the primary material is to accommodate two left turn lanes 00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:25.599 for dual left turn lanes 00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:27.599 So there is a standard behind that 00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:29.759 But that's not something we're looking at changing the 00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:32.319 standard with this with this motion today 00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:36.700 Another question on this map that we have. How do we 00:26:36.700 --> 00:26:39.720 distinguish what was proved prior and what's new? 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:44.460 On the map anything that's highlighted in yellow or pink is 00:26:44.460 --> 00:26:44.799 new 00:26:46.119 --> 00:26:49.250 It's been either updated. It's updated in yellow or pink is 00:26:49.250 --> 00:26:49.599 new 00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:52.759 Okay, I believe it 00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:57.769 Yellow and what please pink pink. Okay. I'm looking here. 00:26:57.769 --> 00:27:00.279 So we got a lot of yellow and pink 00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:04.200 But again, you know, we're looking at a street that comes 00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:06.140 into a street without a name 00:27:06.140 --> 00:27:09.279 I mean, I like to know what those names are so I could kind 00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:11.599 of look at a visual or map to see it makes 00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:14.970 Make sense. So this yes, and we do have that in one 00:27:14.970 --> 00:27:17.529 presentation. We had a table that outlined all the new 00:27:17.529 --> 00:27:19.519 streets and upgrades and the realignments 00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:22.470 I'm suggesting all the streets that touch these these new 00:27:22.470 --> 00:27:25.079 updates is not are not listed on here nor in there 00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:29.210 Okay, we we have that we have some maps that show all the 00:27:29.210 --> 00:27:32.319 alignments and maps that we've previously gone through 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:37.400 You have that for this evening we do we have rollout plots 00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:40.150 and all the information that's been previously presented 00:27:40.150 --> 00:27:40.920 the previous meetings 00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:42.920 We do have all that information and there's tables 00:27:42.920 --> 00:27:45.319 available for all the the details that you want that are 00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:46.359 attached in the previous 00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:48.480 presentation 00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:51.480 Before I recognize them I 00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:54.019 Think I heard at the beginning of this you said you weren't 00:27:54.019 --> 00:27:55.599 prepared to make a presentation 00:27:55.599 --> 00:27:57.920 You were just going to wait and do that in public 00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:01.059 I'd just like to kind of open it up here for some feedback 00:28:01.059 --> 00:28:04.319 from the commissioners. Would you all like to try to open? 00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:08.220 The presentation and talk about possibly the very final map 00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:11.460 to propose mobility plan that's going to show some news and 00:28:11.460 --> 00:28:12.279 maybe address some 00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:14.460 of these questions or if we're 00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:17.619 Uncomfortable enough this evening that we don't think we're 00:28:17.619 --> 00:28:18.240 going to take action 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:21.109 There's no need to spend in the time to do that. Can I get 00:28:21.109 --> 00:28:22.400 some some feedback? 00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:28.190 Just for clarification pretty much what the chairman said 00:28:28.190 --> 00:28:29.880 is this more a concept? 00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:32.599 It's not chipped in stone. This is 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:35.490 General planning principles on thoroughfare planning is 00:28:35.490 --> 00:28:36.839 that alignment can move? 00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:39.789 Generally the rule of thumb is you're connecting point a to 00:28:39.789 --> 00:28:42.990 point B and the exact alignment will take bonnie bray for 00:28:42.990 --> 00:28:43.440 example 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:46.250 That's a currently plan that's being designed and going 00:28:46.250 --> 00:28:46.799 through a schematic 00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.579 And the idea was they were going to get for point a point B 00:28:49.579 --> 00:28:51.559 when the engineering the 30% engineering was done 00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:53.690 They actually figured how to do it. The thoroughfare plan 00:28:53.690 --> 00:28:54.920 is basically to identify 00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:58.339 We're getting from this point to this point and generally 00:28:58.339 --> 00:28:59.000 rule thumb 00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:00.859 You don't modify your thoroughfare plan if you're changing 00:29:00.859 --> 00:29:01.660 within a thousand feet 00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:04.400 That's a general rule thumb so that alignment can move a 00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:05.680 thousand feet 00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:07.619 We try to match it as close as we thought it could be at 00:29:07.619 --> 00:29:09.200 this time, but that doesn't mean it's not 00:29:09.240 --> 00:29:12.180 Yeah, to add to that so you actually there are routing 00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:14.799 studies actually done when it what is designed 00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:18.180 So at that time when the full engineering is done 00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:23.079 The engineer would actually go out take a look like all the 00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:26.880 Properties that you have to cross what is the best way to 00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:27.519 cross them? 00:29:27.799 --> 00:29:30.910 What is what property are actually available that can buy 00:29:30.910 --> 00:29:33.720 the right away, so this is not a fixed alignment 00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:36.880 That will happen actually when the design is done 00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:40.599 Then it gets fixed then they go out they engage the right 00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:41.200 away people 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:44.390 They go out and talk to the property owners, and that's how 00:29:44.390 --> 00:29:45.960 the alignment gets fixed at that time 00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:49.720 Okay, so again when we vote tonight. We're just saying okay 00:29:50.039 --> 00:29:52.599 Let's move forward with it, but we're not saying these are 00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:53.759 the roads that are going to be cut 00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:55.759 This is what we're going to do definitely 00:29:55.799 --> 00:29:57.799 Yes, this is just a 00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:00.319 representation of how 00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:03.039 Overall the schematic looks like okay 00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:06.960 Let me specifically the one concern this guy wrote in about 00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:09.599 you know is what kind of raised my eyebrows and to the 00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:10.400 whole thing 00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:12.400 But I mean if there is 00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:14.400 some 00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:18.190 resentment by the public or a group of people cutting a six 00:30:18.190 --> 00:30:20.759 -lane road through a wildlife preserve 00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:24.680 I mean is there a mechanism in place where we could you 00:30:24.680 --> 00:30:25.019 know 00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:29.720 This or come up with something else I think we have a 00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:33.079 Actual slide that Jeff will be able to show you it is 00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:36.319 really not cutting through a wildlife preserve 00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:39.759 There's actually a road already out there at this time and 00:30:39.759 --> 00:30:42.519 what we are doing is we are using the same road 00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:45.640 It's just going to be expanded a little bit. The road is 00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:46.519 already there 00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:51.450 It's going to be a primary arterial right yes, but it is 00:30:51.450 --> 00:30:55.279 not really going into any of the ESA areas 00:30:56.000 --> 00:30:58.000 Okay 00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:03.259 Just real quickly in your statement here you say some 00:31:03.259 --> 00:31:06.880 streets that are primary arterials 00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:09.599 Supposedly downgraded to second arterials 00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:12.279 Also some streets are supposed to be downgraded 00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:16.640 Then you're going from secondary to primary 00:31:16.839 --> 00:31:19.329 Can you name what are some of those streets that are going 00:31:19.329 --> 00:31:20.799 to? Commissioner Beck? 00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:24.480 Can I may I interrupt first and thank you chair and make a 00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:25.960 suggestion perhaps? 00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:28.740 We're kind of jumping all around here, and we have an hour 00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:29.920 before our 00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:34.849 Regular session we don't have a very heavy agenda once we 00:31:34.849 --> 00:31:36.119 start and so I'm wondering maybe 00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:39.480 To clarify and stay on track and ask these questions 00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:43.299 Maybe in a more organized manner if we could see the 00:31:43.299 --> 00:31:46.319 presentation and then and these are all very good questions 00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:48.839 But if we could lay it all out see the presentation and 00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:51.569 then ask the questions when they come up perhaps it would 00:31:51.569 --> 00:31:52.079 kind of help 00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:54.450 Clarify and answer other questions about people might be 00:31:54.450 --> 00:31:56.279 holding on to can I would that be okay? 00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:58.940 That's a great idea. I think before we move on that I want 00:31:58.940 --> 00:31:59.559 to ask staff a 00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:03.240 Clarification or procedure question we've got two other 00:32:03.240 --> 00:32:04.920 items on our work session 00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:08.410 Yes, and maybe before you know I open the floor to get some 00:32:08.410 --> 00:32:09.640 feedback before we 00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:12.240 Get a presentation 00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:14.869 Maybe it would be appropriate for us to at least cover the 00:32:14.869 --> 00:32:17.400 two other items we have on our work session and get those 00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:20.420 Out of the way, and then whatever time we have left we can 00:32:20.420 --> 00:32:21.039 devote to 00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:23.799 Trying to address this mobility 00:32:24.440 --> 00:32:27.319 Some these mobility questions that be appropriate staff. I 00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:30.720 would suggest that I didn't mean to cut you off 00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:34.710 Well no, I appreciate what you say because that's really 00:32:34.710 --> 00:32:36.920 what I was going right we need more time 00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:40.359 To that that we had 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:43.650 presentation to the mobility committee and to the council 00:32:43.650 --> 00:32:43.960 both 00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:48.339 As we brought this to you we had a buy-in from the mobility 00:32:48.339 --> 00:32:50.640 committee as well as from the council 00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:53.480 To move forward that the way 00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:57.950 The overall mobility plan is now proposed with the changes 00:32:57.950 --> 00:32:58.920 so 00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:02.200 Just want to flag you that you know we already have done 00:33:02.200 --> 00:33:02.920 that 00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:06.400 So this is the next step here to go to the public hearing 00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:09.240 then we want more public hearing that with the council 00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:09.559 level 00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:13.440 I think we're gonna at this point 00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:16.470 We're gonna table this discussion and we're gonna move to 00:33:16.470 --> 00:33:18.440 these two and when we call you back up 00:33:18.440 --> 00:33:21.440 I think we would like to have you be prepared to make your 00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:22.319 presentation 00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:25.039 I think a lot of the questions that are being asked are 00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:27.839 going to be addressed with the proposed mobility plan 00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:30.660 So maybe if we can pull that up when you come up. I think a 00:33:30.660 --> 00:33:33.400 lot of these questions may be able to be addressed so 00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:36.869 With that just as a matter of clarification with the record 00:33:36.869 --> 00:33:38.539 we are not tabling the item 00:33:38.539 --> 00:33:41.799 We're postponing it to the end of the work session. Thank 00:33:41.799 --> 00:33:43.279 you for the clarification 00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:46.759 Thank you, mr. Chair 00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:49.799 I'm going to ask Julie Wyatt to come forward and make a 00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:50.119 presentation 00:33:50.839 --> 00:33:53.210 Regarding a definition and use for assembly halls to the 00:33:53.210 --> 00:33:54.519 Denton Development Code 00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:09.599 Been trying to get sick so I might be off 00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:13.880 I'm Julie Wyatt associate planner with the city of Denton 00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:15.800 and I am presenting 00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:19.400 Some information on assembly halls to you. It's a proposed 00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:21.840 addition to the Denton Development Code 00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:27.619 So in the past year or so staff has received some inquiries 00:34:27.619 --> 00:34:30.360 that regarding the ability to develop 00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:33.139 Facilities that would accommodate private functions such as 00:34:33.139 --> 00:34:35.239 weddings meetings banquets 00:34:35.559 --> 00:34:38.719 in more non-commercial or rural areas and 00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:43.579 And particularly recently we had one where they wanted to 00:34:43.579 --> 00:34:45.320 do a farm on the west side of town 00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:48.880 But and with a wedding facility that was that was 00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:52.820 Accessory to that but it's an NNR 2 zoning district and 00:34:52.820 --> 00:34:54.920 that doesn't permit that use 00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:58.630 And so and so but we think it's you know, it might be a 00:34:58.630 --> 00:35:00.840 really good idea for the area 00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:04.570 So when we looked at it, we realized the DDC really doesn't 00:35:04.570 --> 00:35:05.920 have a definition that 00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:09.420 Accurately describes this activity and this activity can 00:35:09.420 --> 00:35:10.559 include catering 00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:14.800 Alcohol sales for on-site consumption or live or recorded 00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:18.199 music. So for once again like weddings or some sort of 00:35:18.199 --> 00:35:19.119 private event 00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:24.889 We look we typically apply two different uses to that one 00:35:24.889 --> 00:35:26.280 being restaurant 00:35:26.360 --> 00:35:30.230 Which isn't really accurate and the other being semi public 00:35:30.230 --> 00:35:31.840 halls clubs and lodges 00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:34.010 Which really isn't accurate because that really applies to 00:35:34.010 --> 00:35:35.699 not-for-profit entities 00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:39.320 So we don't really just have a good definition that that 00:35:39.320 --> 00:35:41.199 encompasses all these activities 00:35:41.559 --> 00:35:43.239 So when we discussed it 00:35:43.239 --> 00:35:46.030 We thought of two options that we could move forward with 00:35:46.030 --> 00:35:48.780 one would be to revise an existing definition and the other 00:35:48.780 --> 00:35:49.440 would be to 00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:51.440 create a new use 00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:54.599 So let's look at the first option it would be to revise an 00:35:54.599 --> 00:35:57.519 existing definition and that would be the definition of 00:35:57.519 --> 00:35:58.519 semi public halls 00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:02.059 Clubs and lodges the DDC defines that as a structure 00:36:02.059 --> 00:36:04.849 facility owned or operated for special educational or 00:36:04.849 --> 00:36:06.440 recreational purposes 00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:09.579 But not primarily for profit or to render a service that is 00:36:09.579 --> 00:36:11.440 customarily carried on for gain 00:36:12.599 --> 00:36:15.480 So when you break down that definition the first part of it 00:36:15.480 --> 00:36:18.440 the structure facility owned or operated for special 00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:18.559 educational 00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:22.449 Recreational purposes that does encompass the the specific 00:36:22.449 --> 00:36:25.679 activities that would be associated with an assembly hall 00:36:26.440 --> 00:36:29.329 However, when you look at the second part that limits it to 00:36:29.329 --> 00:36:30.639 the not-for-profit 00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:33.079 entities 00:36:33.079 --> 00:36:36.690 so so these these these applicants who are coming to us, we 00:36:36.690 --> 00:36:38.179 really just didn't have something to 00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:41.820 To to apply to what they're wanting to do 00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:46.559 And so the first option would be to propose this definition 00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:49.920 to remove the semi public add in assembly halls 00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:53.650 For for the use and then to remove the second part of the 00:36:53.650 --> 00:36:56.639 definition which would be the not-for-profit 00:36:56.800 --> 00:36:59.840 So it would broaden who could use it. So for-profit 00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:01.239 entities could use it 00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:05.510 The second option would just be to put in a new use in the 00:37:05.510 --> 00:37:06.679 development code 00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:10.329 In the use tables and in the definitions a proposed 00:37:10.329 --> 00:37:13.340 definition would be a building or pump building or portion 00:37:13.340 --> 00:37:13.840 of a building 00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:17.039 In which facilities are provided for civic educational 00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:19.840 political religious or social purposes 00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:25.000 So when we look at the use tables for these proposed uses 00:37:26.039 --> 00:37:29.300 We're really looking at mimicking what's existing in the 00:37:29.300 --> 00:37:32.599 Denton Development Code for semi public halls clubs and lod 00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:32.820 ges 00:37:32.820 --> 00:37:36.130 As I've said those those activities that are associated 00:37:36.130 --> 00:37:36.980 with that use 00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:40.340 Really are the same thing that would be associated with an 00:37:40.340 --> 00:37:43.400 assembly hall, but it does have that not-for-profit 00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:47.070 Component to it. So we're really just mimicking what's 00:37:47.070 --> 00:37:48.519 already in the Denton Development Code 00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:51.670 So for the rural districts that would not be permitted in 00:37:51.670 --> 00:37:53.760 RD5, but would be permitted in RC 00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:57.550 for the neighborhood residential zoning districts, it would 00:37:57.550 --> 00:37:57.739 be 00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:03.719 Permitted with an SUP in districts 1 NR1 through NR6 00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:08.539 it would have a limitation in NRMU 12 and then permitted in 00:38:08.539 --> 00:38:09.000 NRMU and 00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:14.460 Then be permitted by right in in the downtown districts the 00:38:14.460 --> 00:38:17.679 community mixed use districts the regional mixed use 00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:18.239 districts 00:38:19.159 --> 00:38:22.599 the employment centers and the industrial centers 00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:28.119 So the discussion and what I'm posing to you tonight is 00:38:28.119 --> 00:38:31.280 when staff really looks at at a 00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:35.239 potential code amendment to allow for assembly halls 00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:38.670 We're really leaning toward the the revising the existing 00:38:38.670 --> 00:38:41.280 use it already encompasses the activities 00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:44.230 it's already embedded within the use tables and it really 00:38:44.230 --> 00:38:44.679 is just 00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:47.159 just 00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:49.159 broadening it to allow for 00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:52.639 for-profit entities, but we wanted to get your feedback on 00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:55.119 it and then see if you had any other adjustments to 00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:57.659 To what I've presented to you tonight and see if you had 00:38:57.659 --> 00:38:58.679 any other comments 00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:03.599 Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you chair Julie. Can you please 00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:06.440 go back to the first definition that you were suggesting? 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:09.280 Just want to look at that again 00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:13.639 Okay, and then the second definition again 00:39:16.679 --> 00:39:19.639 Okay, so my question is 00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:24.349 Regarding gentlemen's clubs, right and though I might 00:39:24.349 --> 00:39:26.719 disagree with the definition of a gentleman while we're 00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:28.079 talking about gentlemen's clubs 00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:31.250 I'm wondering if we might be opening the door for something 00:39:31.250 --> 00:39:34.199 like that to be put on the outskirts of town. What are the 00:39:34.199 --> 00:39:34.880 limitations? 00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:37.289 Surrounding let me get my use to because I because I 00:39:37.289 --> 00:39:39.800 understand like we're looking at something for like a 00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:40.840 wedding reception 00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:42.880 I'm all for that. Let's talk about that 00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:46.349 But I just want to want to be clear are we opening the door 00:39:46.349 --> 00:39:48.400 for other uses that might not be 00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:51.360 Let me get my receptionist reception halls 00:39:55.119 --> 00:39:57.119 They're actually part of this 00:39:57.400 --> 00:40:00.320 Okay, they're part of a zoning class of sexually oriented 00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:03.119 businesses. Okay, you precluded in most 00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:06.480 Use classifications. Okay 00:40:09.079 --> 00:40:12.099 Yes, we do have a use for that okay, so those are 00:40:12.099 --> 00:40:15.840 specifically defined defined in the TTC. Okay. Thank you 00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:19.039 Commissioner Roselle. Thank you chair 00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:22.820 along with Commissioner Burgles point is this potential for 00:40:22.820 --> 00:40:23.159 like 00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:26.480 amphitheaters or like concert venues 00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:29.360 I'm thinking about noise if they're able just to 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:32.989 Public use and close to neighborhoods if there's any 00:40:32.989 --> 00:40:36.320 limitations in code that would have a decibel requirement 00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:37.079 or 00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:40.130 We did we did look at that because that was a concern that 00:40:40.130 --> 00:40:43.059 we had for particularly the neighborhood residential zoning 00:40:43.059 --> 00:40:43.519 district 00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:46.090 But it does have that extra layer of the specific use 00:40:46.090 --> 00:40:46.519 permit 00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:49.860 So, you know the specific use permit is a use that may be 00:40:49.860 --> 00:40:51.559 permitted in that zoning district 00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:54.869 provided that it can meet certain criteria for approval or 00:40:54.869 --> 00:40:56.920 may have additional conditions, so 00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:00.219 conditions could be put on the use for the hours of 00:41:00.219 --> 00:41:03.679 operation for noise limits for 00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:06.840 the duration of the use you could put a 00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:10.969 You could say this use is only permitted for five years and 00:41:10.969 --> 00:41:11.840 you'd have to come back 00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:15.860 So there are conditions we can put on it that would ensure 00:41:15.860 --> 00:41:19.400 compatibility with the neighborhood. Okay. Thank you. Sure 00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:21.119 clarification 00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:24.760 Commissioner dead always when you said the SUP does the SUP 00:41:24.760 --> 00:41:27.400 request have to come through us? Yes 00:41:27.679 --> 00:41:30.480 Okay, so then to public here would have the ability to 00:41:31.840 --> 00:41:35.880 Question it Commissioner Huntsman. So just 00:41:38.119 --> 00:41:39.920 By way of example 00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:43.880 the Martin Luther King Center there does quite a bit of 00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:48.280 All that what is their classification? 00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:51.000 that is that 00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:53.239 That's a public part 00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:01.230 Not sure part part of the MLK Center is parkland it's also 00:42:01.230 --> 00:42:04.559 community service use 00:42:06.280 --> 00:42:08.599 Community service is permitted in numerous 00:42:10.519 --> 00:42:12.559 If I can clarify a little bit 00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:15.320 just to go back to 00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:18.000 Commissioner Rizal you mentioned amphitheater 00:42:18.679 --> 00:42:22.420 We've evaluated the schedule of uses the uses that are 00:42:22.420 --> 00:42:23.119 permitted 00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:27.280 In our zoning ordinance in our Denton Development Code 00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:30.670 Amphitheater for example was one of the issues we looked at 00:42:30.670 --> 00:42:32.480 how much open air what are we talking about? 00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:35.449 What about noise that use is specified and the parameters 00:42:35.449 --> 00:42:39.119 of that definition do not fit into this definition 00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:41.559 So you can automatically through process of elimination neg 00:42:41.559 --> 00:42:44.559 ate that we also have another use called 00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:49.239 Judy Sophia, I'm sorry. What was that use again? It just 00:42:49.239 --> 00:42:53.079 major event entertainment that has parameters on 00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:56.989 The occupancy with that as well the specific use permit in 00:42:56.989 --> 00:42:59.440 this instance would allow you to place further parameters 00:42:59.440 --> 00:43:01.360 on your occupancy load 00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:04.079 On how much outdoor activity you could have? 00:43:04.679 --> 00:43:07.880 Noise we do have a noise ordinance that is in place as well 00:43:08.920 --> 00:43:10.920 let's take an example if a 00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:14.360 banquet hall and I mean or an assembly hall came in in the 00:43:14.360 --> 00:43:16.880 neighborhood residential district you have a large 00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:18.039 residential subdivision and 00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:22.110 As part of their amenity center they have this use so that 00:43:22.110 --> 00:43:24.719 communities the community can utilize it 00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:28.110 The specific use permit would also come into play that 00:43:28.110 --> 00:43:30.159 would then further condition 00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:32.559 the use of that site 00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:35.400 We also have civic centers 00:43:37.239 --> 00:43:39.420 That Sophie just mentioned and those uses are again defined 00:43:39.420 --> 00:43:43.280 separately in terms of the city's functions in the city's 00:43:43.280 --> 00:43:43.960 uses and 00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:47.320 Again, those are limited under different parameters as well 00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:51.360 . So this specifically is being proposed to accommodate 00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:55.969 in commercial districts in residential districts depending 00:43:55.969 --> 00:43:58.320 on the zoning you're looking at to allow a 00:43:59.239 --> 00:44:02.239 Structure that could accommodate for instance a wedding and 00:44:02.239 --> 00:44:05.219 associated with the wedding you would have for a band as an 00:44:05.219 --> 00:44:05.719 example 00:44:06.079 --> 00:44:08.079 Or you have a very large 00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:11.099 Property that has green space and you wanted to use that 00:44:11.099 --> 00:44:13.079 utilize the outdoor component 00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:16.610 To accommodate a wedding for example and have an outdoor 00:44:16.610 --> 00:44:16.960 band 00:44:16.960 --> 00:44:20.139 But again the ordinances that exist would apply to those 00:44:20.139 --> 00:44:20.480 uses 00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.039 Yes, sir, yeah sure that I 00:44:26.559 --> 00:44:30.550 Think I understood that but my only my only example is and 00:44:30.550 --> 00:44:33.039 I guess I'll get to the to the just of it 00:44:33.480 --> 00:44:35.480 shift down the street the 00:44:36.199 --> 00:44:39.630 Legion Hall the Legion Hall does everything you touched on 00:44:39.630 --> 00:44:42.309 currently under the current northern they have a church 00:44:42.309 --> 00:44:42.960 that meets there 00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:46.260 It's rented out every weekend for private parties. It's 00:44:46.260 --> 00:44:49.969 used as a community building. So why do we need to change 00:44:49.969 --> 00:44:50.460 it? 00:44:50.460 --> 00:44:51.480 I guess that's what I'm saying 00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:55.219 If what what is wrong with the ordinance now that all that 00:44:55.219 --> 00:44:58.579 's going on in that building that would not apply to a 00:44:58.579 --> 00:44:59.800 private building 00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:02.590 What am I missing the definition limits it to a not-for- 00:45:02.590 --> 00:45:05.239 profit? I think I understand what you're saying 00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:09.530 People rent it and they're not you know, because it's gonna 00:45:09.530 --> 00:45:11.519 be a facility that's rented by private entity 00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:14.659 That's not that is you know, and we may not be aware that 00:45:14.659 --> 00:45:16.000 it's being rented for that 00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:19.719 Do you see so the use is that they're conducting out of 00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:20.840 that facility? 00:45:21.480 --> 00:45:24.800 May not fit the definition yet. They might do that 00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:28.559 For profit as you're saying but more than likely 00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:32.199 It is our assumption that those uses that do occur out of 00:45:32.199 --> 00:45:35.119 facilities that we know are for non-profit 00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:39.469 Are for not profit as the definition reads or intended to 00:45:39.469 --> 00:45:40.159 be in that manner 00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:42.880 clarification or that was 00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:45.769 We have to go back and look at the definition of what is 00:45:45.769 --> 00:45:47.840 profit nonprofit if the organization 00:45:48.280 --> 00:45:51.750 Is filed as a nonprofit then they can take revenue into 00:45:51.750 --> 00:45:54.000 offset costs at the end of the year 00:45:54.840 --> 00:45:57.980 In the gates and there's a definition for that. So 00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:02.480 We have to understand that in the in their definitions of 00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:04.900 profit nonprofits not by individual events 00:46:04.900 --> 00:46:08.440 It's by that entity and how it files its taxes, right? 00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:10.880 Commissioner Tyler, thank you chair 00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:14.539 So I'm trying to think of an example now of something in 00:46:14.539 --> 00:46:18.039 the city that might fall under this use and Civic Center 00:46:18.039 --> 00:46:21.800 Is a city property MLK centers city property 00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:24.239 the you know the 00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:26.480 American Legion and those are all 00:46:27.360 --> 00:46:30.909 nonprofits churches, they're all nonprofits TWU and UNT 00:46:30.909 --> 00:46:32.840 both can rent halls 00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:37.130 State organizations that are exempt from zoning. So and I 00:46:37.130 --> 00:46:40.599 guess we we used to the Radisson used to have an 00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:43.769 Attached use but it would be secondary to the hotel. So we 00:46:43.769 --> 00:46:45.880 really right now don't have any privately owned 00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:49.730 Like event centers or conference centers or anything. Is 00:46:49.730 --> 00:46:51.480 that what about Ashton Gardens? 00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:56.710 It's a wedding venue off I 35. I believe that's in current. 00:46:56.710 --> 00:46:57.119 That's current 00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:01.989 But it's a similar. Yes. Well, I've got one to just throw 00:47:01.989 --> 00:47:02.280 out 00:47:04.199 --> 00:47:05.909 How would for example like in some of the larger 00:47:05.909 --> 00:47:09.840 developments that have like an amenity center or 00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:14.840 How would these that are in a residential area can those 00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:17.039 now be rented out for this or not? 00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:21.760 With an SUV. Okay. Okay. Any other questions? 00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:26.400 I'll be back 00:47:26.519 --> 00:47:29.599 I just commissioner has been yes, sir. Thank you. I 00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:33.860 Just need I guess I don't get it 00:47:34.599 --> 00:47:37.909 Is this is a short answer and the longer answer is if I'm a 00:47:37.909 --> 00:47:41.099 business owner and you're giving me a whole bunch of moving 00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:43.920 Parts then I don't want to invest because I'm in the 00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:44.719 business of 00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:47.840 hosting parties every weekend 00:47:48.280 --> 00:47:51.719 Every hour on the hour and I don't want to come in front of 00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:55.239 the council every week to get the okay, you know 00:47:55.239 --> 00:47:57.239 I mean, I just don't know 00:47:57.679 --> 00:48:00.940 Maybe I'm missing it and then I'll concede that but I'm 00:48:00.940 --> 00:48:04.440 gonna ask to give you a clarification on the issue 00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:07.510 If I could jump in an SUP it would just be a well, it 00:48:07.510 --> 00:48:09.480 depends on how it's structured 00:48:09.480 --> 00:48:12.389 But it would they would get approval from the count from 00:48:12.389 --> 00:48:15.300 the council for either a limited amount of time or a 00:48:15.300 --> 00:48:16.480 specified amount of time 00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:18.280 So they wouldn't have to come once a week 00:48:18.280 --> 00:48:21.420 It would be for their their a duration a long duration that 00:48:21.420 --> 00:48:23.599 they would be there and it would only be 00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:27.139 On what we discussed it would only be in the residential 00:48:27.139 --> 00:48:27.760 districts 00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:31.789 The the commercial districts it would be permitted by right 00:48:31.789 --> 00:48:33.719 so downtown they could do it 00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:37.940 You know on the loop in commercial districts they could do 00:48:37.940 --> 00:48:41.039 it but in a residential area we would want to have a little 00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:41.320 more 00:48:42.800 --> 00:48:44.800 Scrutiny on it to make sure that it did 00:48:45.639 --> 00:48:48.920 Was compatible with the existing development pattern and 00:48:48.920 --> 00:48:50.840 the the existing land uses 00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:53.630 So but as you P they wouldn't have to come every time they 00:48:53.630 --> 00:48:57.400 had an event just for the use for the duration 00:48:57.400 --> 00:48:59.820 I don't know if I'm saying that I don't know if I'm correct 00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:02.599 Okay 00:49:03.159 --> 00:49:07.119 Thank you, by way of example on Lilliam Miller there's the 00:49:08.199 --> 00:49:12.199 Yes, what is there? What is their duration of their SUP? 00:49:12.199 --> 00:49:13.679 They don't have an SUP 00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:16.750 It actually is a bed and it's a non-conforming use and it's 00:49:16.750 --> 00:49:19.039 actually considered a bed and breakfast 00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:21.659 It was developed under a plan development prior to the 00:49:21.659 --> 00:49:24.480 develop prior to the adoption of the current didn't 00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:25.159 development code 00:49:25.880 --> 00:49:29.230 So that type of use would be permitted depending on which 00:49:29.230 --> 00:49:30.199 zoning district 00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:32.570 They were in either by right or with the approval of a 00:49:32.570 --> 00:49:33.480 specific use permit 00:49:33.800 --> 00:49:36.590 The intent of the specific use permit is if we're looking 00:49:36.590 --> 00:49:39.500 at residential areas or let's take the existing site that 00:49:39.500 --> 00:49:40.480 you just mentioned 00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:45.440 Let's assume the zoning was that required an SUP 00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:48.079 But we know what the surrounding land uses are that would 00:49:48.079 --> 00:49:51.599 allow us to conduct an analysis to determine that it is not 00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:54.559 detrimental to the existing land uses that are already 00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:59.320 established in the area as an example 00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:02.119 Okay 00:50:02.119 --> 00:50:03.800 Thank you 00:50:03.800 --> 00:50:05.800 Any other questions on this item? 00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:09.039 We'll move on to 00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:11.699 Receive a report on the didn't development code 00:50:11.699 --> 00:50:13.360 requirements for getting to use 00:50:15.320 --> 00:50:19.400 Yes, I'm sorry we back it commissioner Taylor so 00:50:20.119 --> 00:50:23.590 From what I'm hearing it sounds like everybody's okay with 00:50:23.590 --> 00:50:24.280 a single 00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:27.159 Modified existing definition 00:50:27.159 --> 00:50:29.989 We don't think we need to split them from a non to have a 00:50:29.989 --> 00:50:33.199 non-profit definition and a for-profit definition. Is that 00:50:33.199 --> 00:50:34.519 is that correct? 00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:41.760 I'm fine with not splitting it 00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:45.699 So am I do we need a vote or how does this get no we will 00:50:45.699 --> 00:50:47.480 now want now that we've got the nod 00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:50.789 We'll proceed with actually conducting the public hearing 00:50:50.789 --> 00:50:54.000 to amend the DDC to incorporate the revised definition 00:50:54.280 --> 00:50:57.710 But not tonight not tonight, so we'll be able to talk about 00:50:57.710 --> 00:50:58.599 this some more 00:50:59.480 --> 00:51:01.480 Yes 00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:05.320 Is that what anything else you need on this particular item 00:51:05.320 --> 00:51:05.320 ? 00:51:06.559 --> 00:51:09.159 Okay, we'll then move on to item B 00:51:10.039 --> 00:51:12.039 Julie I'll stay here 00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:14.880 All right 00:51:15.199 --> 00:51:19.800 So a few months ago you had a case come before you that was 00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:21.780 going to be a gated community 00:51:21.780 --> 00:51:23.789 And there were some current concerns and questions 00:51:23.789 --> 00:51:25.199 regarding connectivity and other 00:51:26.039 --> 00:51:28.280 Facilities that were associated with gated community 00:51:28.280 --> 00:51:30.280 so we just wanted to bring this back and talk to you about 00:51:30.280 --> 00:51:34.400 what's in the DDC regarding gated communities and and then 00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:37.800 Ask answer any questions we can for you 00:51:42.360 --> 00:51:45.519 So we'll start with the definition of a gated community sub 00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:46.239 chapter 23 00:51:46.559 --> 00:51:49.280 Defines that it is a subdivision or housing development 00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:52.179 with two or more dwellings with private streets controlled 00:51:52.179 --> 00:51:53.119 through the use of a 00:51:53.639 --> 00:51:55.639 vehicular or pedestrian gate 00:51:57.599 --> 00:51:59.599 So when a 00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:03.380 Gated community when we look at it from a staff level and 00:52:03.380 --> 00:52:07.039 then at P&Z. It's it's typically through the plat 00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:09.599 we 00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:13.250 The requirements for gated communities are in sub chapter 00:52:13.250 --> 00:52:14.840 16 of the Denton development code 00:52:14.840 --> 00:52:17.619 and so a lot of the issues that come up with gated 00:52:17.619 --> 00:52:18.679 communities are 00:52:19.519 --> 00:52:22.239 Are reviewed during the platting process? 00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:26.199 So we'll just go over the main things that you're gonna see 00:52:26.199 --> 00:52:29.280 on a plat as they relate to a gated community 00:52:30.039 --> 00:52:33.230 First of all the streets. I know connectivity was a was an 00:52:33.230 --> 00:52:34.679 important question 00:52:36.440 --> 00:52:39.920 If a gated community only has one access point 00:52:40.599 --> 00:52:44.030 For the public the code requires that they provide a second 00:52:44.030 --> 00:52:46.760 access point for emergency vehicles only 00:52:46.760 --> 00:52:49.579 So that is one that they need to have the two access points 00:52:49.579 --> 00:52:49.840 one 00:52:50.559 --> 00:52:53.039 For the people who live there and then one for the 00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:54.460 emergency vehicles 00:52:54.460 --> 00:52:57.880 I believe Commissioner Taylor. This is one of your 00:52:57.880 --> 00:53:02.119 questions regarding a recent recent case the turnaround 00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:06.079 There is a turnaround that's required. It is within the 00:53:06.079 --> 00:53:06.840 right-of-way 00:53:06.840 --> 00:53:10.360 But it is it has to be maintained by the HOA and it's 00:53:10.360 --> 00:53:12.639 outside of the perimeter gate 00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:15.099 So it would be something that someone if they didn't gain 00:53:15.099 --> 00:53:17.630 access that they could turn around and get back on the 00:53:17.630 --> 00:53:18.519 public street 00:53:18.519 --> 00:53:20.800 So that is a requirement of our gated communities 00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:23.599 the streets are 00:53:23.639 --> 00:53:27.280 privately owned and maintained but they are designed 00:53:28.360 --> 00:53:31.639 To the requirements of public streets in the city of Denton 00:53:32.519 --> 00:53:35.590 But the HOA does own those streets and they do maintain 00:53:35.590 --> 00:53:36.039 them 00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:39.880 And then connectivity and I want to look at my notes 00:53:41.400 --> 00:53:44.590 So there is a provision within a sub chapter 16 regarding g 00:53:44.590 --> 00:53:48.039 ated communities and gate and connectivity 00:53:49.079 --> 00:53:51.599 Gated communities shall not be allowed to obstruct any 00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:55.320 existing arterial street or proposed arterial street as 00:53:55.320 --> 00:53:57.480 shown in the city mobility plan 00:53:57.480 --> 00:53:59.480 so they're not allowed to 00:54:00.159 --> 00:54:01.960 to 00:54:01.960 --> 00:54:04.070 Create a situation where they're going to reduce 00:54:04.070 --> 00:54:06.199 connectivity when it comes to the mobility plan 00:54:07.079 --> 00:54:08.400 furthermore 00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:11.590 They cannot negatively affect vehicular or pedestrian 00:54:11.590 --> 00:54:13.880 traffic circulation on public streets 00:54:14.039 --> 00:54:17.260 They can't impair access to the property to the subdivision 00:54:17.260 --> 00:54:20.349 or to act or access to or from public facilities and that 00:54:20.349 --> 00:54:21.519 includes schools 00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:25.030 Parks and libraries or the response time of the emergency 00:54:25.030 --> 00:54:25.579 vehicle 00:54:25.579 --> 00:54:28.170 So they do need we do need to make sure that the 00:54:28.170 --> 00:54:31.329 connectivity is is not reduced and that we are aware of 00:54:31.329 --> 00:54:31.719 that 00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:34.039 That issue when it comes to gated communities 00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:39.400 Just briefly 00:54:39.400 --> 00:54:41.920 Water and wastewater those are located within 00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:45.170 Underneath the streets so the streets are privately owned 00:54:45.170 --> 00:54:46.039 and maintained 00:54:46.199 --> 00:54:49.460 But they are required to dedicate a public utility easement 00:54:49.460 --> 00:54:52.670 on top of those streets so that water and wastewater can be 00:54:52.670 --> 00:54:54.280 located in those streets 00:54:54.880 --> 00:54:57.860 it's also important to note that they are dedicated to the 00:54:57.860 --> 00:55:01.239 city and so if a repair needed to be done the city would 00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:03.960 potentially go under the street and 00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:06.159 and 00:55:06.159 --> 00:55:09.159 To repair the line if they did have to repair the street 00:55:09.159 --> 00:55:11.039 the city would repair the street 00:55:12.519 --> 00:55:16.360 In accordance with city standards and on the low cost 00:55:17.320 --> 00:55:18.840 estimate and 00:55:18.840 --> 00:55:20.800 If there were any design 00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:23.260 Requirements that the that the neighborhood had that the g 00:55:23.260 --> 00:55:26.199 ated community had that were above and beyond what the city 00:55:26.440 --> 00:55:29.920 Guidelines were that the city would not put the street back 00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:32.559 like that. The HOA would then have to take care of it 00:55:32.559 --> 00:55:35.710 So if there was some sort of brick pattern on the street or 00:55:35.710 --> 00:55:36.400 some other 00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:40.000 Design element of the streets the city wouldn't necessarily 00:55:40.000 --> 00:55:43.000 wouldn't put that back to HOA would be required to put that 00:55:43.000 --> 00:55:43.239 back 00:55:43.239 --> 00:55:45.239 Does that make sense? Okay 00:55:46.599 --> 00:55:48.360 Electric facilities same thing 00:55:48.360 --> 00:55:51.000 They are owned by electric company if they did if the city 00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:52.880 had to get in or had to repair that 00:55:53.239 --> 00:55:56.039 And then then the city would repair the streets 00:55:56.559 --> 00:55:59.320 But but to what the city standards are 00:56:00.119 --> 00:56:02.119 the access gates 00:56:03.119 --> 00:56:08.039 Fire the fire chief is required to have access to any any 00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:15.139 Codes or key pads in order to get into the property 00:56:15.519 --> 00:56:18.780 they also the access gates also have to accommodate a fire 00:56:18.780 --> 00:56:19.440 truck and 00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:23.159 And be allowed that ingress and egress 00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:25.519 the 00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:28.929 Postmaster and the wet water wastewater the streets also 00:56:28.929 --> 00:56:30.639 have access to the property 00:56:30.760 --> 00:56:32.730 Just in case they need to get in there and then the post 00:56:32.730 --> 00:56:34.880 office would obviously need to get in there as well as 00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:35.400 solid waste 00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:39.679 Here's a picture of 00:56:39.880 --> 00:56:42.360 Agated community that's in existence in the city of Denton 00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:44.599 Tuscan Hills, Tuscan Hills 00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:48.750 And the most important thing on HOA is when you're talking 00:56:48.750 --> 00:56:52.780 about all these public facilities is the HOA and I think we 00:56:52.880 --> 00:56:56.039 We discussed it earlier this evening. They are required 00:56:56.039 --> 00:56:57.420 within a gated community 00:56:58.719 --> 00:57:00.719 during the final plat the 00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:04.579 Applicant is required to provide those HOA documents for us 00:57:04.579 --> 00:57:05.119 to look at 00:57:05.320 --> 00:57:07.389 Because we want to make sure that there are a couple of 00:57:07.389 --> 00:57:10.360 things in those HOA documents first the power to 00:57:10.480 --> 00:57:13.510 To file a lien or foreclose on the property. We want to 00:57:13.510 --> 00:57:15.920 make sure they get paid so that the facilities can be 00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:16.679 maintained 00:57:18.880 --> 00:57:20.670 Provide for the maintenance of any of those common areas 00:57:20.670 --> 00:57:23.199 and privately held facilities and 00:57:23.920 --> 00:57:26.820 The Denton Development Code does require that they cannot 00:57:26.820 --> 00:57:29.079 be dissolved without City Council approval 00:57:29.760 --> 00:57:32.360 So if you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them 00:57:33.519 --> 00:57:35.519 questions I 00:57:35.599 --> 00:57:37.079 Have one 00:57:37.079 --> 00:57:39.679 Excuse me Commissioner Hudson. Yeah, and I'll be brief. I 00:57:39.679 --> 00:57:41.159 just want to 00:57:42.079 --> 00:57:44.079 Bookmark here. I want to come back 00:57:44.440 --> 00:57:46.440 later and talk about 00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:51.550 Disputes I'm concerned about litigation for if we repair a 00:57:51.550 --> 00:57:54.719 road. They say it's not prepared repaired 00:57:55.199 --> 00:57:57.849 Correctly, there's there's some sort of disputes there that 00:57:57.849 --> 00:57:59.199 could come about and also 00:58:02.679 --> 00:58:06.000 It strikes me as odd that you need a deposit to get your 00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:09.000 utilities turned on but we're going to give 00:58:09.760 --> 00:58:14.320 HOA streets with no bond or no requirement of 00:58:15.719 --> 00:58:20.119 Money and so my concern the city ends up having to pay for 00:58:20.119 --> 00:58:21.980 something and then go through 00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:26.360 Foreclosure processes which ultimately may never result in 00:58:29.239 --> 00:58:31.619 Recovering those lost dollars for whatever that whatever 00:58:31.619 --> 00:58:35.769 started the litigation so, you know due to bankruptcy this 00:58:35.769 --> 00:58:36.679 that or the other 00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:40.039 So that's my concern, but we I'll save it for later, but I 00:58:40.039 --> 00:58:41.679 do want to just earmark that 00:58:42.480 --> 00:58:44.159 Okay 00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:46.159 anybody else 00:58:46.880 --> 00:58:48.920 I've got one question on this then 00:58:50.599 --> 00:58:54.449 You addressed it somewhat on item three and five you've got 00:58:54.449 --> 00:58:56.639 lease costs and I understand that 00:58:59.400 --> 00:59:01.780 For the example you have up they have stamp concrete or pa 00:59:01.780 --> 00:59:02.800 vers there 00:59:04.239 --> 00:59:06.239 Does the city pay what? 00:59:06.679 --> 00:59:10.000 The lease cost portion would be and then the HOA has to pay 00:59:10.000 --> 00:59:11.619 on top or how does that? 00:59:13.760 --> 00:59:15.760 Okay 00:59:16.920 --> 00:59:20.000 That was my only anybody else Commissioner Briegel 00:59:22.199 --> 00:59:24.079 Julie how many gated communities does Denton currently have 00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:26.920 not counting the one that we just approved 00:59:26.920 --> 00:59:29.639 I believe we have two we have Tuscan Hills and Robes and 00:59:29.639 --> 00:59:30.019 ranch 00:59:30.599 --> 00:59:32.599 Allison Park, is there another one? 00:59:33.199 --> 00:59:36.199 T's Lee. Oh, okay. Sorry. Okay 00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:40.840 And I'm kind of curious. So when people pay 00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:44.920 HOA fees in one of those gated communities it goes not only 00:59:44.920 --> 00:59:46.800 towards like it ropes and ranch for example 00:59:46.800 --> 00:59:48.800 They've got that the golf course and they've got the 00:59:48.800 --> 00:59:51.590 recreation facility and these beautiful amenities down 00:59:51.590 --> 00:59:51.960 there 00:59:52.000 --> 00:59:54.849 But the the HOA fees that they would pay also would go for 00:59:54.849 --> 00:59:57.800 road maintenance and such yeah 00:59:58.360 --> 01:00:01.480 Because those are privately maintained roads, correct? Okay 01:00:02.320 --> 01:00:05.630 I'm curious what other because I'm not a part of an HOA so 01:00:05.630 --> 01:00:09.000 when people pay an HOA fee in a neighborhood 01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:12.010 That's not in a gated community. Where did those HOA fees 01:00:12.010 --> 01:00:13.980 go? They're not going to street maintenance because those 01:00:13.980 --> 01:00:14.519 are public roads 01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:17.960 Well, if we have if there were open space if there was any 01:00:17.960 --> 01:00:20.440 drainage facilities that were if there was a 01:00:20.960 --> 01:00:23.679 Detention pond that was in that neighborhood then the HOA 01:00:23.679 --> 01:00:25.800 fees would go toward maintaining that 01:00:26.400 --> 01:00:29.000 In any other amenities that the HOA had 01:00:35.840 --> 01:00:37.840 So if they 01:00:38.239 --> 01:00:40.239 If an HOA were to fold 01:00:41.360 --> 01:00:43.519 Who would then be responsible for 01:00:45.159 --> 01:00:47.159 Those roads at that point 01:00:47.639 --> 01:00:50.659 Would that be that would be for I'm gonna jump in make a 01:00:50.659 --> 01:00:51.039 comment 01:00:51.320 --> 01:00:54.110 We have a lot of discussion about the roads the roads are 01:00:54.110 --> 01:00:55.800 put in for city specs 01:00:56.239 --> 01:00:58.900 The developer pays for them and puts them in just like if 01:00:58.900 --> 01:01:00.559 they are non HOA 01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:03.619 The difference is the HOA is maintaining something that 01:01:03.619 --> 01:01:06.199 otherwise the city would be maintaining 01:01:06.440 --> 01:01:10.619 So the city in my opinion gets a benefit that the developer 01:01:10.619 --> 01:01:13.559 pays for it puts it in and then is willing to maintain 01:01:13.880 --> 01:01:16.719 Something and if the city gets it back then guess what? 01:01:16.719 --> 01:01:19.269 They're now on the hook to maintain a street that the 01:01:19.269 --> 01:01:21.199 private individual were paying for 01:01:21.760 --> 01:01:24.929 Whereas a rather regular public street put in the same 01:01:24.929 --> 01:01:28.239 specs. The public is paying for it from day one 01:01:28.239 --> 01:01:30.239 so I don't see the 01:01:31.480 --> 01:01:34.679 Concerns about that the HOA is somehow getting off the hook 01:01:34.679 --> 01:01:37.050 But they're kind of carrying the note for the city as long 01:01:37.050 --> 01:01:37.639 as they're in 01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:41.329 Functioning and the city gets it back after being taken 01:01:41.329 --> 01:01:44.239 care of and paid for by HOA for however long that is 01:01:44.239 --> 01:01:46.239 Well, I certainly didn't mean to 01:01:47.239 --> 01:01:49.760 Sorry if my question came off that way that I was accusing 01:01:49.760 --> 01:01:51.320 HOA's of getting off the hook 01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:54.440 I just I sincerely want to know if an HOA were to fold and 01:01:54.440 --> 01:01:56.519 they've been maintaining these roads this whole time 01:01:56.639 --> 01:01:59.070 Then that financial burden would then come back to the city 01:01:59.070 --> 01:02:01.039 and they finally have to start paying for it 01:02:01.039 --> 01:02:03.039 Okay, well the common areas 01:02:03.039 --> 01:02:06.949 I'm also curious are are do are there other cities that you 01:02:06.949 --> 01:02:09.840 are aware of that don't allow gated communities? 01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:11.840 And if so, what are there? 01:02:12.320 --> 01:02:14.320 What are there I'm just I'm 01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:18.500 Sincerely curious about this. Yeah, no, they're across the 01:02:18.500 --> 01:02:20.239 board. Yeah, okay 01:02:21.239 --> 01:02:23.239 I'm done now 01:02:23.599 --> 01:02:27.449 Thank you Mr. Gatowich in my life experience I have lived 01:02:27.449 --> 01:02:27.599 in 01:02:28.480 --> 01:02:32.230 17 different homesteads. I have lived in HOA's gated and 01:02:32.230 --> 01:02:35.760 non gated communities and your questions are well founded 01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:38.440 The HOA put together a budget 01:02:38.840 --> 01:02:40.880 Requiring you know where the funds have to go if they're g 01:02:40.880 --> 01:02:45.000 ated their additional funds. I live in an HOA situation now 01:02:45.000 --> 01:02:48.260 We maintain common property and our HOA fees are pretty 01:02:48.260 --> 01:02:52.199 small as compared to other HOA's that I belong to so it 01:02:52.599 --> 01:02:55.489 Just you know, the HOA's got to come up with a budget and 01:02:55.489 --> 01:02:58.639 then they assess the homeowners and property owners a 01:02:58.639 --> 01:02:59.880 certain percentage of that 01:02:59.880 --> 01:03:02.519 They maintain their budget and puts into a kitty 01:03:03.280 --> 01:03:07.469 Future use for maintenance issues and in some cases those 01:03:07.469 --> 01:03:09.000 can be fairly high HOA fees 01:03:09.000 --> 01:03:12.559 But the people going in there know that and they maintain 01:03:12.559 --> 01:03:16.039 their funds accordingly. So yeah, I've been there done that 01:03:17.320 --> 01:03:19.320 Any other questions on this item? 01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:22.900 Commissioner back. Thank you chair in the event that an HOA 01:03:22.900 --> 01:03:23.480 does fold 01:03:24.280 --> 01:03:26.710 Do we didn't get to go in and tear the gates down? It's no 01:03:26.710 --> 01:03:27.760 longer a gated community 01:03:34.119 --> 01:03:38.039 Do they essentially lose their rights then they had I would 01:03:38.039 --> 01:03:40.440 assume that yes the gate would have to 01:03:46.039 --> 01:03:49.920 Any other questions on this item are we gonna look for 01:03:51.239 --> 01:03:55.440 We're not leaving any action on this. No, this was purely a 01:03:56.280 --> 01:03:58.800 Discussion we presented some facts that are in our dental 01:03:58.800 --> 01:03:59.920 development code 01:03:59.920 --> 01:04:02.340 The Commission had asked I would think about a month and a 01:04:02.340 --> 01:04:03.199 half ago on 01:04:03.800 --> 01:04:05.960 What are the parameters and we wanted to provide some 01:04:05.960 --> 01:04:06.760 insight to you? 01:04:07.760 --> 01:04:10.840 Thank you. I had requested that and I'm very I was very 01:04:10.840 --> 01:04:13.400 pleased to see that come up on our work session 01:04:13.400 --> 01:04:15.880 So quickly after that request, so thank you for that 01:04:16.679 --> 01:04:20.780 Thank you, Julie. I think been whispered to that. We've got 01:04:20.780 --> 01:04:22.199 some food if this takes care of this 01:04:22.199 --> 01:04:24.440 I'm I think maybe what we'll do if the 01:04:25.079 --> 01:04:28.400 Commission entertain this is real break to get food and 01:04:28.400 --> 01:04:30.800 then come back for mobility. I did have one 01:04:31.519 --> 01:04:33.599 Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you chair. I had a couple of 01:04:33.599 --> 01:04:36.079 questions or corrections regarding the minutes 01:04:36.079 --> 01:04:39.400 Should we talk about that now or in our regular session? 01:04:40.920 --> 01:04:42.920 You want to you want to eat food? 01:04:43.880 --> 01:04:47.170 Okay, that's fine. Okay. We're gonna take a recess right 01:04:47.170 --> 01:04:50.099 now and and get some food and we'll be back 01:05:00.559 --> 01:05:00.699 Thank you, it's 16 618 and we're going to call the work 01:05:00.699 --> 01:05:07.570 session back in order to hear continuing on the mobility 01:05:07.570 --> 01:05:08.739 report 01:05:12.199 --> 01:05:14.280 So what I'm gonna try to do over the next couple minutes is 01:05:14.280 --> 01:05:15.739 hit the highlights of the questions 01:05:15.739 --> 01:05:18.230 I heard when you're discussing and a lot of this you've 01:05:18.230 --> 01:05:20.440 seen before it's the same presentation last time 01:05:20.440 --> 01:05:22.809 But one of the things I want to point out is what's your 01:05:22.809 --> 01:05:24.800 current existing mobility plan looks like 01:05:25.280 --> 01:05:29.019 This is your current existing plan. That's it's really this 01:05:29.019 --> 01:05:32.289 is a mobility map. We're doing that's kind of a better way 01:05:32.289 --> 01:05:32.519 to say 01:05:32.519 --> 01:05:35.079 We're adopting a mobility map, but it's a plan 01:05:35.079 --> 01:05:38.480 It's a roadmap to the future and so this is just for some 01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:41.440 clarifications and of what it was now as you can see 01:05:42.760 --> 01:05:44.460 Some of these are not on here. I'm gonna walk through the 01:05:44.460 --> 01:05:47.309 different thought process we have and I'm gonna skip a 01:05:47.309 --> 01:05:49.119 couple slides of the stuff that 01:05:50.679 --> 01:05:52.679 May not be as important 01:05:52.920 --> 01:05:54.880 The first thing we looked at 01:05:54.880 --> 01:05:56.880 Was what are the roads are already approved? 01:05:57.239 --> 01:05:59.130 That already planned and the reason we want to look at this 01:05:59.130 --> 01:06:01.289 is because we want to see how this was going to affect the 01:06:01.289 --> 01:06:01.679 network 01:06:01.840 --> 01:06:04.630 So these roads in Brown are roads that we added but these 01:06:04.630 --> 01:06:07.599 are already planned developments that are approved 01:06:07.920 --> 01:06:10.289 That are the master plan communities and they're just the 01:06:10.289 --> 01:06:12.019 roads that are on their development plan 01:06:12.519 --> 01:06:14.119 so these are 01:06:14.119 --> 01:06:16.119 Really not roads that we came up with but we wanted to know 01:06:16.119 --> 01:06:17.980 how to connect to these roads because you knew at some 01:06:17.980 --> 01:06:18.360 point 01:06:18.360 --> 01:06:21.019 In time in the future these roads are good logical places 01:06:21.019 --> 01:06:22.800 to connect the outside network with 01:06:24.719 --> 01:06:27.960 And so basically we're matching already planned roadways 01:06:28.280 --> 01:06:31.250 The second item is we looked at where new ways are new road 01:06:31.250 --> 01:06:33.880 ways would go and these are the purple roads 01:06:34.960 --> 01:06:36.570 We basically were looking at the map and finding areas 01:06:36.570 --> 01:06:38.139 where connections could occur 01:06:39.519 --> 01:06:41.960 connectivity is one of the things that you'll notice is as 01:06:41.960 --> 01:06:44.349 you start building out your network one is what's the one 01:06:44.349 --> 01:06:45.000 the best ways to 01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:46.599 Improve mobility is connectivity 01:06:46.599 --> 01:06:49.409 So we started looking for how to connect existing roads 01:06:49.409 --> 01:06:51.920 those future MPC roads and get them on the map 01:06:51.920 --> 01:06:53.920 and so the purple roads are 01:06:54.760 --> 01:06:57.530 New roadways that we have identified and these most of 01:06:57.530 --> 01:07:01.320 these areas are future growth areas. There are a few 01:07:04.280 --> 01:07:06.960 Infill areas to increase connectivity 01:07:09.519 --> 01:07:13.139 Commissioner Bruegel, thank you chair. Are these these 01:07:13.139 --> 01:07:14.260 proposed new additions? 01:07:14.260 --> 01:07:16.739 Those are all going to be city maintained roads and not 01:07:16.739 --> 01:07:18.119 text out roads. Is that correct? 01:07:18.320 --> 01:07:21.400 These are all proposed city maintained roads. So is there 01:07:22.880 --> 01:07:25.969 So like the the future completion of loop 288 wouldn't be 01:07:25.969 --> 01:07:27.239 included on this 01:07:27.840 --> 01:07:30.619 But it was it was taken into consideration during the it 01:07:30.619 --> 01:07:33.360 was taking it we took into consideration text out roads 01:07:33.360 --> 01:07:35.360 I believe all the new roads that we identified on here 01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:39.360 On this purple map or not text out facilities, but the text 01:07:39.360 --> 01:07:41.730 out roads are considered the mobility plan because the 01:07:41.730 --> 01:07:43.000 arterial network of text 01:07:43.000 --> 01:07:46.119 That's a is the skeleton of Denton's mobility network 01:07:47.320 --> 01:07:50.610 Do you have a map perhaps where you have like an overlay of 01:07:50.610 --> 01:07:53.239 the proposed or projected? 01:07:54.519 --> 01:07:57.039 Completion of 288 so we can see kind of how it 01:07:57.760 --> 01:07:59.760 matches up 01:08:00.400 --> 01:08:02.400 Let me see 01:08:02.920 --> 01:08:04.920 This is the mobility map 01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:11.840 The mouse so here's 288 and 01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:16.520 After it gets to 380 it doesn't it's not 01:08:17.039 --> 01:08:19.510 It's no longer kind of a freeway type of facility on the 01:08:19.510 --> 01:08:20.119 west side 01:08:20.119 --> 01:08:22.550 It just turns into more of your primary arterial kind of 01:08:22.550 --> 01:08:25.359 your Boulevard section as opposed to access manage section 01:08:25.359 --> 01:08:28.710 And it follows through down to through Jim Crystal down to 01:08:28.710 --> 01:08:29.640 2449 01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:32.899 And like we talked about earlier, we looked at the 01:08:32.899 --> 01:08:33.680 alignment 01:08:33.680 --> 01:08:35.840 We looked at avoiding some of the gas wells in the area, 01:08:35.840 --> 01:08:38.340 but when that when the when the project actually 01:08:38.720 --> 01:08:40.720 Becomes a reality and people start studying alignment 01:08:41.479 --> 01:08:43.239 Engineering will get survey out there and start looking at 01:08:43.239 --> 01:08:44.359 where that roadway goes 01:08:44.359 --> 01:08:47.310 but this is based on our aerial photography and some other 01:08:47.310 --> 01:08:48.439 contours we have and 01:08:49.000 --> 01:08:51.180 Gaswell locations of where we'll put the location so it 01:08:51.180 --> 01:08:54.159 ties into to 2499 and comes back around 01:08:54.840 --> 01:08:57.479 And on the other side, it's pretty much there already. I 01:08:57.479 --> 01:08:57.899 mean 01:08:58.520 --> 01:09:00.520 So it doesn't quite loop all the way around 01:09:01.159 --> 01:09:03.880 Comes into vintage on the other side back to 377 01:09:04.800 --> 01:09:07.770 Well 288 ever I'm sorry. Yeah, well the loop ever make a 01:09:07.770 --> 01:09:10.239 complete loop or is it just gonna be like that horseshoe 01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:10.439 shape 01:09:11.760 --> 01:09:14.130 From which time right now it looks like a horseshoe shape. 01:09:14.130 --> 01:09:17.119 Well, I mean you can follow it around as a little but it's 01:09:18.039 --> 01:09:19.479 course 01:09:19.479 --> 01:09:21.479 Commissioner Dadowitz 01:09:21.840 --> 01:09:24.319 Follow up I was under 01:09:25.199 --> 01:09:27.600 Wow, I was someone had mentioned to me that 01:09:29.199 --> 01:09:33.479 Mayhill will become part in parcel the loop 288 and 01:09:33.920 --> 01:09:36.760 Loop 288 will be renamed Lily and Miller 01:09:37.359 --> 01:09:39.800 is that something I misheard or 01:09:40.359 --> 01:09:42.119 because of the 01:09:42.119 --> 01:09:45.210 the loop is not necessarily the loop as we envisioned it 01:09:45.210 --> 01:09:47.079 way back when because of all the 01:09:47.960 --> 01:09:50.750 Entrances and exits of commercial property there. I'll have 01:09:50.750 --> 01:09:52.560 to stop the city staff. I hadn't heard that 01:09:55.760 --> 01:09:59.670 Mayhill actually runs parallel to loop 288. So may have 01:09:59.670 --> 01:10:02.760 will be a separate road primary or trail by itself 01:10:03.279 --> 01:10:06.350 It's not going to replace loop 288 loop. We're going to 01:10:06.350 --> 01:10:09.199 will stay as it is will be still be named loop 288 01:10:09.199 --> 01:10:13.279 Yes, sir. Okay, and the may have it is maintained by text 01:10:13.279 --> 01:10:14.560 not which is 01:10:15.199 --> 01:10:18.939 288 may have will be a city on Street. Okay, may Hill is a 01:10:18.939 --> 01:10:20.000 city on Street. Yes 01:10:22.399 --> 01:10:24.399 I want to make a comment 01:10:25.279 --> 01:10:28.029 From my limited development experience one of the 01:10:28.029 --> 01:10:30.060 advantages of us going ahead and doing this as as 01:10:30.060 --> 01:10:32.199 properties are developed in the future 01:10:32.840 --> 01:10:36.579 When these are shown then a developer has to make allotment 01:10:36.579 --> 01:10:40.119 for it only the right-of-way, but also pay for their share 01:10:40.119 --> 01:10:44.340 So it's advantageous to us as a city to look down the road 01:10:44.340 --> 01:10:46.680 and and try to plan as much as we can 01:10:46.680 --> 01:10:50.109 So as things develop it shifts some of the burden from city 01:10:50.109 --> 01:10:51.880 to developers. Is that correct? 01:10:51.880 --> 01:10:54.970 And that is very true and you know when we do the impact 01:10:54.970 --> 01:10:55.359 fees 01:10:55.960 --> 01:10:59.210 The impact fees are going to take care of some of the 01:10:59.210 --> 01:11:02.600 payments that have to be made for the right-of-way, etc 01:11:03.439 --> 01:11:06.029 So that would be the next step when we come back at you, 01:11:06.029 --> 01:11:06.279 okay 01:11:09.479 --> 01:11:14.119 Just took a bite Commissioner Rose. Thank you. Can can you 01:11:14.119 --> 01:11:16.439 forgive me for any ignorance? 01:11:16.439 --> 01:11:18.050 I am a new commissioner. So I haven't heard the 01:11:18.050 --> 01:11:19.039 presentation before 01:11:19.760 --> 01:11:21.399 kind of the first 01:11:21.399 --> 01:11:24.550 Couple days looking at this. Can you help me out and talk 01:11:24.550 --> 01:11:26.439 about how the future land use? 01:11:26.760 --> 01:11:29.500 that's been approved by the city goes into the 01:11:30.119 --> 01:11:32.119 development of the mobility plan 01:11:32.199 --> 01:11:34.850 Absolutely. What we did is we generated a computer model. 01:11:34.850 --> 01:11:37.079 The city's had water and wastewater models for years 01:11:37.079 --> 01:11:39.539 They haven't had a transportation model a lot of times it's 01:11:39.539 --> 01:11:40.159 been lying on the map 01:11:40.159 --> 01:11:43.279 So one of the big tasks of this was to actually see are we 01:11:43.279 --> 01:11:45.300 planning it appropriately are the number of lanes? 01:11:45.300 --> 01:11:47.300 We're putting out there appropriately is the connectivity 01:11:47.300 --> 01:11:47.600 appropriately 01:11:47.600 --> 01:11:50.489 So we took the future land use map that you're looking at 01:11:50.489 --> 01:11:52.319 and we populated into our community 01:11:52.319 --> 01:11:54.720 Model to project how much traffic is going to be generated 01:11:54.720 --> 01:11:57.199 based on what's approved in the comprehensive plan. I 01:11:58.239 --> 01:12:01.659 Appreciate the answer. My specific concern is actually echo 01:12:01.659 --> 01:12:05.420 ed by one of the individuals that emailed in is the Far East 01:12:06.880 --> 01:12:10.720 Proposed primary art material which is looks like post oak 01:12:11.359 --> 01:12:13.359 Accredits origination 01:12:13.640 --> 01:12:15.720 dissects rural zoning 01:12:16.279 --> 01:12:21.399 From just south of McKinney up just north of 380 01:12:21.720 --> 01:12:24.699 That area on the future land use is all rural and I'm 01:12:24.699 --> 01:12:27.960 having a tough time getting my mind around how a potential 01:12:27.960 --> 01:12:28.960 six lane road 01:12:29.520 --> 01:12:32.680 Would help continue the development or future land use of a 01:12:32.680 --> 01:12:34.279 rural zoning 01:12:36.600 --> 01:12:37.920 Right 01:12:37.920 --> 01:12:39.970 One of the things to answer your question is we were 01:12:39.970 --> 01:12:42.500 looking at a connectivity of connecting Sherman Road to 01:12:42.500 --> 01:12:43.319 this to 01:12:43.560 --> 01:12:45.720 Down to the south through post oak and one of the things we 01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:46.880 're looking at was right away 01:12:46.880 --> 01:12:49.810 And so we you're not going to go build a six lane road when 01:12:49.810 --> 01:12:51.140 the demands not there 01:12:51.279 --> 01:12:53.899 So what we were trying to obtain is the right away in that 01:12:53.899 --> 01:12:55.600 area for the potential to build it 01:12:56.199 --> 01:12:58.449 And if the right away is there you can only get right away 01:12:58.449 --> 01:13:00.279 one time and a lot of times one of the comments in 01:13:00.279 --> 01:13:02.159 The email was about bike 01:13:02.159 --> 01:13:04.539 Accommodation that becomes a popular bike route and if we 01:13:04.539 --> 01:13:05.439 get the right away 01:13:05.920 --> 01:13:08.710 Of a primary material if it never develops that way because 01:13:08.710 --> 01:13:09.960 this has to be studied every five years 01:13:10.359 --> 01:13:12.729 And so we went with that approach. We are looking for 01:13:12.729 --> 01:13:16.380 comments tonight. And so the approach of of north of say 3 01:13:16.380 --> 01:13:17.600 80 or mingo 01:13:17.840 --> 01:13:21.289 you're talking about if we need to reevaluate that as maybe 01:13:21.289 --> 01:13:21.479 a 01:13:22.439 --> 01:13:24.760 Secondary arterial four lane facilities a six lane facility 01:13:25.319 --> 01:13:28.039 That is one of the comments we're looking for we got his 01:13:28.039 --> 01:13:28.319 email 01:13:28.319 --> 01:13:31.130 You know, we'd be interested in hearing the Commission's 01:13:31.130 --> 01:13:32.720 opinion on that particular roadway 01:13:33.359 --> 01:13:37.359 So well, I'll make a comment about it. I think it's very 01:13:37.359 --> 01:13:38.640 advantageous 01:13:38.640 --> 01:13:42.380 I'd much rather see us if it's reasonable to 01:13:43.439 --> 01:13:46.439 Plan for larger roads rather than smaller roads 01:13:46.439 --> 01:13:49.369 I think we all have experienced enough of the issues that 01:13:49.369 --> 01:13:52.250 we currently have in our city with smaller roads and the 01:13:52.250 --> 01:13:53.319 inability to get around 01:13:53.760 --> 01:13:56.960 When you go over east of here to the fast growth areas 01:13:56.960 --> 01:14:00.119 little elm Frisco and you drive out there and there's four 01:14:00.119 --> 01:14:00.479 and six 01:14:00.479 --> 01:14:03.310 Lane roads and you can just take off and go from one side 01:14:03.310 --> 01:14:04.399 of town to the other 01:14:04.399 --> 01:14:07.689 I would love to see that being here in our city of Denton 01:14:07.689 --> 01:14:09.199 to be able to get around 01:14:09.600 --> 01:14:11.970 Versus what we currently have of trying to keep everything 01:14:11.970 --> 01:14:15.119 small and then we don't have the option to come back later 01:14:15.119 --> 01:14:16.079 on and make 01:14:16.079 --> 01:14:19.590 The roads larger so I'm supporting maybe being a little 01:14:19.590 --> 01:14:22.920 wider a more right away and a little more flexibility than 01:14:23.399 --> 01:14:25.399 smaller for future growth 01:14:26.560 --> 01:14:29.000 Commissioner Roselle, I appreciate your insight and 01:14:29.000 --> 01:14:31.760 understanding the right away the potential to move greater 01:14:31.760 --> 01:14:32.560 the future land 01:14:33.319 --> 01:14:36.390 Map is for the next 15 years, so I'm not sure what's gonna 01:14:36.390 --> 01:14:38.000 grow to the half the next 15 years 01:14:38.199 --> 01:14:41.270 But I guess in trying to think about forward-thinking 01:14:41.270 --> 01:14:44.640 zoning if we have on the books and approval for a primary 01:14:44.640 --> 01:14:45.359 arterial 01:14:45.760 --> 01:14:47.760 specifically just south of McKinney 01:14:47.760 --> 01:14:50.640 Where I know last board meeting or commission meeting 01:14:50.640 --> 01:14:52.340 someone came in and wanted to put a tracked home 01:14:52.340 --> 01:14:54.439 neighborhood that's zoned as rural 01:14:54.439 --> 01:14:57.960 But we had it we rezoned it for it in our for I'm wondering 01:14:57.960 --> 01:14:59.960 if it sets a dangerous precedent that when he comes back 01:14:59.960 --> 01:15:00.399 for plating 01:15:00.760 --> 01:15:03.380 Although the the platyp potentially doesn't line up with 01:15:03.380 --> 01:15:06.199 the world's zoning what we already have in the books of 01:15:06.199 --> 01:15:07.119 primary arterial 01:15:07.119 --> 01:15:10.119 So it's very hard for us to defend the future land use of 01:15:10.119 --> 01:15:12.279 being rural if we have in the books that we're planning 01:15:12.560 --> 01:15:15.039 In the next so many years that well, it's going to be six 01:15:15.039 --> 01:15:15.760 lines anyways 01:15:15.920 --> 01:15:18.380 Let's go ahead and approve this in our four subdivision. 01:15:18.380 --> 01:15:21.630 Well now we've lost the integrity of the rule zoning in a 01:15:21.630 --> 01:15:22.199 whole 01:15:22.199 --> 01:15:24.199 So I understand what you're saying about 01:15:24.880 --> 01:15:26.880 Owning that right away that at the first time 01:15:27.319 --> 01:15:29.770 But I'm also it seems in direct conflict with what we're 01:15:29.770 --> 01:15:31.600 wanting to do for the next 30 years 01:15:31.880 --> 01:15:36.079 Our next 15 years 2030 in that rural development 01:15:38.800 --> 01:15:40.800 Commissioner Taylor 01:15:45.039 --> 01:15:47.119 Add to your both of your comments 01:15:48.119 --> 01:15:50.119 Often the rural 01:15:50.439 --> 01:15:54.029 Use is more of a placeholder. It's not so much that it is 01:15:54.029 --> 01:15:55.500 intended to be preserved 01:15:56.359 --> 01:15:58.359 perpetually in a rural use 01:15:58.359 --> 01:16:01.680 But it is that in the next 10 to 20 years we expect it to 01:16:01.680 --> 01:16:03.000 stay rural in character 01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:06.180 And so I don't think that we would generally prevent 01:16:06.180 --> 01:16:08.359 development in those areas 01:16:08.960 --> 01:16:11.680 But we wouldn't necessarily plan for a lot of intensive 01:16:11.680 --> 01:16:14.000 development, you know up off of 01:16:14.439 --> 01:16:17.520 Up, you know, just south of the dam or in areas like that 01:16:17.520 --> 01:16:21.100 So I think I think it's more like for for that 20 year 01:16:21.100 --> 01:16:23.640 period not that we must preserve this as rural 01:16:23.640 --> 01:16:26.399 Right, but just that we don't expect 01:16:27.079 --> 01:16:29.850 the same intensity of development there as we might have 01:16:29.850 --> 01:16:33.199 down off Ryan Road or something like that and 01:16:34.319 --> 01:16:37.760 As far as I do agree with the chair on 01:16:38.640 --> 01:16:40.640 the importance of getting 01:16:41.640 --> 01:16:45.079 The plan laid out and making sure that we can get those 01:16:45.760 --> 01:16:49.270 The right-of-way the dedication and so forth as we need it. 01:16:49.270 --> 01:16:52.319 I do have specific concerns about post oak 01:16:52.319 --> 01:16:56.000 I think that you know a better alignment would probably be 01:16:56.000 --> 01:16:56.760 Cooper Creek 01:16:57.039 --> 01:17:00.229 We don't need a large arterial next to an area that one of 01:17:00.229 --> 01:17:02.119 the few areas that will be permanently 01:17:02.800 --> 01:17:06.140 Low use low intensity use, you know, it's a large 01:17:06.760 --> 01:17:10.810 Can floodplain nature preserve it's never going to have a 01:17:10.810 --> 01:17:13.000 high traffic demand in that area 01:17:13.119 --> 01:17:16.760 If we move that over half a mile or so to the Cooper Creek 01:17:16.760 --> 01:17:19.520 which extends the Mayhill arterial 01:17:20.279 --> 01:17:23.079 You know that that provides the parallel connectivity and 01:17:23.079 --> 01:17:25.760 and then you can have nice little 01:17:26.600 --> 01:17:29.210 Neighborhoods on collectors branching off and they can back 01:17:29.210 --> 01:17:30.760 up to the nature preserve 01:17:31.319 --> 01:17:34.479 Instead of having a large road that might have a negative 01:17:34.479 --> 01:17:37.720 impact along the the nature preserve there. I 01:17:39.239 --> 01:17:41.960 Also, I've made this comment a few a few times in the past 01:17:41.960 --> 01:17:44.640 and I'll make it again tonight I 01:17:45.800 --> 01:17:47.800 there seem to be a 01:17:48.119 --> 01:17:52.470 lot a lot of very variance in how many roads and how 01:17:52.470 --> 01:17:54.960 intensive the roads are and 01:17:55.520 --> 01:17:59.060 What areas have a lot of collectors and what areas seem to 01:17:59.060 --> 01:18:01.319 have a tight grid of arterials? 01:18:01.960 --> 01:18:03.939 You know, so some of this is master plan like down to the 01:18:03.939 --> 01:18:06.920 southwest. That's all master plan. You can't do much 01:18:07.640 --> 01:18:09.640 to the northwest 01:18:10.199 --> 01:18:12.800 to my knowledge none of that is master planned and 01:18:13.359 --> 01:18:17.039 there's a I think a quarter mile a grid there of collectors 01:18:17.039 --> 01:18:20.560 and arterials between is that Ganser and 01:18:21.119 --> 01:18:24.199 The extension of you know right in that area near crumb 01:18:24.760 --> 01:18:27.609 So that's that's one of the kind of most densely laid out 01:18:27.609 --> 01:18:29.460 and none of those roads exist 01:18:29.880 --> 01:18:33.840 So we're planning for eight new roads in basically a one 01:18:33.840 --> 01:18:35.880 mile by one mile square area 01:18:36.520 --> 01:18:39.840 You know and then we have if you move over just due north 01:18:39.840 --> 01:18:42.119 you have gaps some of that's due to Creek 01:18:42.119 --> 01:18:45.539 But it's hard to tell it on this map on the north Bonnie Br 01:18:45.539 --> 01:18:46.039 ay and 01:18:46.619 --> 01:18:48.619 Then we have large areas 01:18:48.960 --> 01:18:52.279 To the northeast where there's just nothing at all 01:18:52.279 --> 01:18:55.770 There's two miles with a mile wide area with no roads and I 01:18:55.770 --> 01:18:58.100 understand there is a creek in there 01:18:59.079 --> 01:19:01.449 And it's not all in the city yet, but we have other roads 01:19:01.449 --> 01:19:03.960 that are outside of city limits indicated 01:19:04.720 --> 01:19:06.720 so I worry about the 01:19:07.800 --> 01:19:11.359 variability in road density and you know layout 01:19:12.199 --> 01:19:14.199 In our previous conversations. I was told that 01:19:14.920 --> 01:19:16.920 basically an engineer 01:19:17.760 --> 01:19:20.310 different engineers took different quadrants of the city 01:19:20.310 --> 01:19:20.560 and 01:19:21.760 --> 01:19:24.659 Just kind of looked at things like gas wells and creeks and 01:19:24.659 --> 01:19:26.800 planned a section of the city 01:19:27.479 --> 01:19:31.310 But it seems like there there isn't a lot of consistency in 01:19:31.310 --> 01:19:32.920 how the got laid out 01:19:34.920 --> 01:19:37.560 Let me clarify that it was not different engineers 01:19:38.359 --> 01:19:41.850 What we did was we divided the city into four different 01:19:41.850 --> 01:19:45.270 quadrants the same group looked at it. It included the 01:19:45.270 --> 01:19:46.239 traffic engineer 01:19:46.960 --> 01:19:48.960 people from engineering 01:19:48.960 --> 01:19:50.960 our traffic superintendent 01:19:51.880 --> 01:19:55.050 People went out drove around and a lot of these guys are 01:19:55.050 --> 01:19:56.720 already out on the town all the time 01:19:57.039 --> 01:20:00.619 So they know where we have traffic issues and where we have 01:20:00.619 --> 01:20:01.720 connectivity issues 01:20:02.039 --> 01:20:06.850 So that data came from them, which is a field data that was 01:20:06.850 --> 01:20:07.560 then 01:20:08.279 --> 01:20:10.279 You know wetted with the model also 01:20:11.119 --> 01:20:14.489 When we ran the model, so that's how the overall model came 01:20:14.489 --> 01:20:15.000 about 01:20:17.920 --> 01:20:21.500 You know to answer one question for you it is not really a 01:20:21.500 --> 01:20:22.600 15 year plan 01:20:23.039 --> 01:20:27.239 This is a built out condition based on the land use 01:20:27.800 --> 01:20:31.050 That has been done by your consultant for the comp plan 01:20:31.050 --> 01:20:34.840 amendment. So it takes that fully developed condition 01:20:35.279 --> 01:20:37.399 So the traffic generation that you see 01:20:38.319 --> 01:20:40.840 That was done from the model is for the full built out 01:20:40.840 --> 01:20:41.600 condition 01:20:42.239 --> 01:20:43.520 Be that 01:20:43.520 --> 01:20:44.720 2050 01:20:44.720 --> 01:20:46.720 2070 2100 01:20:47.039 --> 01:20:50.890 Based on that land use so there is enough traffic that is 01:20:50.890 --> 01:20:53.840 generated that's coming on that road 01:20:54.439 --> 01:20:58.159 That it could be sustained by a secondary arterial 01:20:58.560 --> 01:21:02.020 But as you know the desire was to keep the primary arterial 01:21:02.020 --> 01:21:04.960 by staff also so that we have the right away 01:21:04.960 --> 01:21:08.079 In case we need to build a secondary primary arterial there 01:21:08.680 --> 01:21:10.680 Thank you 01:21:11.920 --> 01:21:15.180 The thought process behind road that has gotten the comment 01:21:15.180 --> 01:21:16.840 in email is like I said 01:21:16.840 --> 01:21:19.840 We can only get right away one time and so our thought is 01:21:19.840 --> 01:21:21.840 is if that did say of rural contents 01:21:21.840 --> 01:21:24.659 And you want to have nice bar ditches and some other stuff 01:21:24.659 --> 01:21:27.439 to make it kind of that rural feel even if you were right 01:21:27.439 --> 01:21:29.460 In the road it takes a little bit more right away to do 01:21:29.460 --> 01:21:29.720 that 01:21:29.720 --> 01:21:32.489 So even we're unfortunate it's called a principal arterial 01:21:32.489 --> 01:21:35.159 primary to mainly to preserve the right away. It's not 01:21:35.159 --> 01:21:35.720 necessary 01:21:35.720 --> 01:21:38.699 There's no plan to build that road of six lanes right now, 01:21:38.699 --> 01:21:40.920 but I mean like I said the the comment of maybe going over 01:21:40.920 --> 01:21:41.039 to 01:21:41.039 --> 01:21:44.289 Cooper Creek the idea is we want to connect the goal was to 01:21:44.289 --> 01:21:46.600 connect mingo somehow to Sherman and 01:21:47.600 --> 01:21:49.880 That alignment hasn't actually been studied yet 01:21:50.239 --> 01:21:52.800 So we looked at a map and this is what we came up with on 01:21:52.800 --> 01:21:53.399 our first stab 01:21:53.399 --> 01:21:55.770 But there are other alternatives that should be evaluated 01:21:55.770 --> 01:21:59.159 deeper, but it can be moved in the alignment routing study 01:21:59.159 --> 01:22:01.159 The plan is to try to get a connection 01:22:02.199 --> 01:22:06.550 Thank you before I recognize Commissioner does we're about 01:22:06.550 --> 01:22:08.760 five minutes past when we're supposed to start 01:22:08.760 --> 01:22:12.550 I think we'll go up to about another five minutes about 640 01:22:12.550 --> 01:22:15.319 and then we will have to cut this off and take it back up 01:22:15.319 --> 01:22:18.189 So Commissioner Dudowitz. Yeah. Thank you chair. I think 01:22:18.189 --> 01:22:19.680 again. This is another reason for 01:22:20.479 --> 01:22:23.880 Must be delaying and looking at this in more detail because 01:22:23.880 --> 01:22:27.020 again this mayhill issue is a major art 01:22:27.159 --> 01:22:30.680 It's going to be what a major tear arterial and it dead 01:22:30.680 --> 01:22:34.600 ends on 380 and then it just north of that where Cooper 01:22:34.600 --> 01:22:35.159 Creek starts 01:22:35.159 --> 01:22:36.119 it's a 01:22:36.119 --> 01:22:40.079 Secondary and that would be a primary look at taking that 01:22:40.079 --> 01:22:42.840 road right straight up and make it the same six or two four 01:22:42.840 --> 01:22:43.159 to six 01:22:43.159 --> 01:22:44.479 lanes 01:22:44.479 --> 01:22:47.840 It dead ends right at 380 and Cooper Creek right now is a 01:22:47.840 --> 01:22:49.500 two-lane country bumpkin Road 01:22:49.500 --> 01:22:52.119 Which is just right there is north of that intersection 01:22:52.239 --> 01:22:55.460 So I mean that's you know looking at that post oak issue 01:22:55.460 --> 01:22:58.239 versus the Copper Creek. I I think 01:22:58.600 --> 01:23:01.229 That makes more sense. But as we get into the details of 01:23:01.229 --> 01:23:02.800 this we're picking up these little things 01:23:02.800 --> 01:23:05.569 We never have had the ability to get into the to some of 01:23:05.569 --> 01:23:07.079 these things even though they're conceptual 01:23:07.199 --> 01:23:10.140 To give feedback to you to consider other alternatives 01:23:13.119 --> 01:23:15.119 Anybody else 01:23:15.560 --> 01:23:17.560 I'm gonna make a final comment 01:23:18.520 --> 01:23:21.369 From my understanding what most of these are when we have 01:23:21.369 --> 01:23:24.680 the the names whether they're primary arterial sector 01:23:24.720 --> 01:23:27.199 We're mostly talking about the right away 01:23:28.119 --> 01:23:31.159 And the size that we're taking and I know some of our 01:23:31.800 --> 01:23:34.659 New commissioners weren't here for the cross sections that 01:23:34.659 --> 01:23:37.680 were presented probably a couple two three months ago 01:23:38.159 --> 01:23:41.010 Where you all came and made a number of different cross 01:23:41.010 --> 01:23:44.539 sections of you could have a two-lane road or a three-lane 01:23:44.539 --> 01:23:44.960 road 01:23:45.760 --> 01:23:47.760 some of the size of the sidewalks 01:23:48.640 --> 01:23:51.319 Bike lanes whether they were included in the street or 01:23:51.319 --> 01:23:55.109 whether they were outside the street and so really rather 01:23:55.109 --> 01:23:55.520 than 01:23:56.239 --> 01:23:58.119 at least my 01:23:58.119 --> 01:24:01.340 Interpretation and comment is it mostly they're not 01:24:01.340 --> 01:24:04.960 designing streets that this is going to be a six-lane road 01:24:05.000 --> 01:24:09.279 It could be but mostly what we're doing is taking a certain 01:24:09.279 --> 01:24:11.039 amount size right away 01:24:11.399 --> 01:24:14.810 Or what those sections can be and that the appropriate time 01:24:14.810 --> 01:24:17.800 in the future as the city continues to develop 01:24:18.319 --> 01:24:20.380 the engineering department will then make those 01:24:21.319 --> 01:24:24.539 design criteria of whether it's a four-lane road six-lane 01:24:24.539 --> 01:24:24.960 road 01:24:25.920 --> 01:24:29.180 Pending what the right away is is that a fair assessment of 01:24:29.180 --> 01:24:29.560 anywhere? 01:24:29.560 --> 01:24:31.930 You're trying to go pretty much on track and one of the 01:24:31.930 --> 01:24:32.960 reason we want to build a model 01:24:32.960 --> 01:24:35.329 So when development occurs in the rural area we can confirm 01:24:35.329 --> 01:24:37.760 and actually put the development that's coming in and 01:24:38.079 --> 01:24:40.560 Understand whether it should be the six line or four lane, 01:24:40.560 --> 01:24:43.000 but have we know the right away right now 01:24:43.000 --> 01:24:45.380 We're taking our our best steps of preserving the right 01:24:45.380 --> 01:24:47.720 away that we need great. We feel like we need 01:24:48.319 --> 01:24:50.800 So really this isn't actually saying that these roads are 01:24:50.800 --> 01:24:52.000 going to be a six-lane road 01:24:52.000 --> 01:24:54.609 We're just talking about the right away that we're taking 01:24:54.609 --> 01:24:55.800 that we could do up to that 01:24:56.279 --> 01:24:58.649 Amount and then the design comes at some point in the 01:24:58.649 --> 01:24:58.960 future 01:25:00.319 --> 01:25:02.220 Well, I think to answer your question is like definitely 01:25:02.220 --> 01:25:03.319 the fringes is true 01:25:03.319 --> 01:25:05.210 But if a development was to come in they would look at this 01:25:05.210 --> 01:25:05.500 our map 01:25:05.840 --> 01:25:08.909 But this is a living document and if someone decides to 01:25:08.909 --> 01:25:10.039 analyze at that time 01:25:10.079 --> 01:25:12.470 They have the right to change whether it's a four or six 01:25:12.470 --> 01:25:15.760 lane based on whatever study that they do correct 01:25:16.199 --> 01:25:18.600 Just like what we're doing tonight when we look at this we 01:25:18.600 --> 01:25:21.770 have several things from old mobility plans that are being 01:25:21.770 --> 01:25:22.279 removed 01:25:22.680 --> 01:25:25.109 And now I've been determined they were on the map. We no 01:25:25.109 --> 01:25:25.960 longer need them 01:25:26.640 --> 01:25:28.789 And so that's the same thing that will ultimately happen 01:25:28.789 --> 01:25:32.079 with this at some point in the future and other commissions 01:25:32.079 --> 01:25:32.560 look at this down 01:25:32.560 --> 01:25:35.079 The road. Yeah, we had several downgrades 01:25:36.000 --> 01:25:38.949 That we have downgraded because we the development changed 01:25:38.949 --> 01:25:40.960 from what we anticipated or what was anticipated 01:25:41.520 --> 01:25:43.199 Great 01:25:43.199 --> 01:25:46.609 Anybody else before we wrap up Commissioner Hesford? I 01:25:46.609 --> 01:25:47.600 would like to request 01:25:48.319 --> 01:25:52.210 Can I get something to read regarding that process of right 01:25:52.210 --> 01:25:53.000 away? 01:25:53.479 --> 01:25:56.029 That sort of thing how that works. I'm not familiar with 01:25:56.029 --> 01:25:56.960 that mechanism 01:25:57.880 --> 01:26:01.479 So just a general overview how over right away is work is 01:26:01.479 --> 01:26:01.680 it? 01:26:03.920 --> 01:26:06.020 Okay, so please sure 01:26:07.800 --> 01:26:11.199 It's 640 and we're going to adjourn the 01:26:11.560 --> 01:26:14.880 The work session and reconvene in council chambers 01:26:33.319 --> 01:26:36.420 Good evening and welcome to the October 21st 01:26:37.039 --> 01:26:40.680 2015 planning and zoning meeting for the city of Denton 01:26:41.000 --> 01:26:43.000 It is 645 01:26:43.520 --> 01:26:46.390 This meeting has been duly posted and we have a quorum 01:26:46.390 --> 01:26:47.039 present 01:26:47.560 --> 01:26:50.720 Call the meeting to order and we will begin with our pledge 01:26:50.720 --> 01:26:53.319 to the US flag followed by the Texas flag 01:27:11.000 --> 01:27:13.000 The 01:27:33.720 --> 01:27:37.840 First item on our agenda tonight is the approval of the 01:27:37.840 --> 01:27:38.720 minutes 01:27:41.000 --> 01:27:43.000 We have a motion request to speak 01:27:45.159 --> 01:27:47.460 Chair I had a couple of corrections. I wanted to make the 01:27:47.460 --> 01:27:48.640 minutes please if I could 01:27:49.520 --> 01:27:53.119 Commissioner Bruegel, thank you, sir on page three 01:27:53.920 --> 01:27:55.399 line 01:27:55.399 --> 01:27:57.399 five 01:27:57.399 --> 01:27:59.199 There's 01:27:59.199 --> 01:28:02.619 The word not is missing. So for example, it said on the 01:28:02.619 --> 01:28:03.159 plaque 01:28:03.680 --> 01:28:05.680 It's a 01:28:06.199 --> 01:28:09.689 The word not is missing. So for example, it said on the 01:28:09.689 --> 01:28:13.109 plat in a grayed-out color to indicate the neighboring 01:28:13.109 --> 01:28:13.600 guess 01:28:13.600 --> 01:28:16.710 Well, she stated she did see that on this plat. I did 01:28:16.710 --> 01:28:18.850 actually not see that on that plot. That's my first 01:28:18.850 --> 01:28:19.159 correction 01:28:19.479 --> 01:28:21.479 My second one 01:28:21.680 --> 01:28:23.680 Is I believe on page nine? 01:28:24.760 --> 01:28:26.239 Yeah 01:28:26.239 --> 01:28:28.239 on page nine 01:28:28.399 --> 01:28:31.970 After lines 26 and 27. I would like it if there could be 01:28:31.970 --> 01:28:33.439 something added to the minutes 01:28:34.760 --> 01:28:38.199 As we were looking at the believe it was a rezone request 01:28:38.199 --> 01:28:40.960 for from rural to NR for and there was 01:28:41.319 --> 01:28:43.840 someone who came to the meeting to talk about there was a 01:28:43.840 --> 01:28:45.800 gas pipeline that went through there and 01:28:46.560 --> 01:28:48.930 Just brought up some more questions. What I wanted to get 01:28:48.930 --> 01:28:51.619 added to the minutes, please was that I made 01:28:52.199 --> 01:28:54.090 Clarification to the rest of the Commission that what we 01:28:54.090 --> 01:28:58.279 were doing was looking specifically at a rezone request and 01:28:58.279 --> 01:28:59.039 not the 01:28:59.960 --> 01:29:01.159 the 01:29:01.159 --> 01:29:04.409 Site plan that had been presented to us because that gas 01:29:04.409 --> 01:29:07.260 pipeline at that point would come into play as we're 01:29:07.260 --> 01:29:08.000 looking at that 01:29:08.000 --> 01:29:10.770 And I just think that was an important omission that should 01:29:10.770 --> 01:29:12.140 be reincluded. Thank you 01:29:16.039 --> 01:29:19.600 Commissioner Daddowitz, thank you chair. There's an 01:29:20.840 --> 01:29:25.180 Missing element to my discussion page two lines 29 01:29:25.800 --> 01:29:30.399 through 33 and when and subsequently 34 to 38 01:29:31.239 --> 01:29:32.640 when I asked 01:29:32.640 --> 01:29:36.380 Staff Earl Escobar with regard to do does anyone on staff 01:29:36.380 --> 01:29:39.399 have a liaison relationship with text on? 01:29:39.800 --> 01:29:42.640 The answer I believe was no and that is missing here 01:29:42.640 --> 01:29:45.930 And then I suggested that we would have a proposed future 01:29:45.930 --> 01:29:48.840 meeting possibility with text out to understand 01:29:49.079 --> 01:29:52.409 their time and development of various roads within our jur 01:29:52.409 --> 01:29:54.520 ors both in our area, especially 01:29:56.760 --> 01:30:00.039 Expansion of Teasley and that's not in this 01:30:01.319 --> 01:30:03.909 So if we can review that the tapes or whatever I believe 01:30:03.909 --> 01:30:07.949 that that was a lengthy discussion, but it's not in the 01:30:07.949 --> 01:30:08.600 minutes 01:30:09.399 --> 01:30:11.779 Just a clarification both Commissioner Daddowitz and 01:30:11.779 --> 01:30:12.960 Commissioner Bruegel 01:30:12.960 --> 01:30:15.750 Are you all comfortable with staff making the corrections 01:30:15.750 --> 01:30:17.279 to minutes with your comments? 01:30:17.279 --> 01:30:19.460 Or do you want to table this until those corrections are 01:30:19.460 --> 01:30:21.500 made to bring it back since those are fairly lengthy 01:30:21.500 --> 01:30:22.600 comments on both of those 01:30:22.600 --> 01:30:25.079 Items regarding my comments. I'm comfortable with that. I 01:30:25.079 --> 01:30:26.859 'll leave it to you Commissioner Daddowitz 01:30:27.520 --> 01:30:30.470 The having staff make the corrections. Yes, I'll be 01:30:30.470 --> 01:30:32.359 comfortable with that. Okay 01:30:36.520 --> 01:30:38.520 In that request to speak 01:30:39.159 --> 01:30:42.630 Commissioner Taylor with those two corrections. I move we 01:30:42.630 --> 01:30:45.899 approve the minutes for our last meeting 01:30:46.840 --> 01:30:49.000 Commissioner Rizel, I'll second that 01:30:51.159 --> 01:30:54.079 The first and second call for a vote on the board 01:30:57.520 --> 01:30:59.520 I 01:31:04.199 --> 01:31:10.279 Motion carries 7-0 move us to our consent agenda 01:31:18.640 --> 01:31:20.640 Chair would entertain a motion 01:31:21.239 --> 01:31:24.239 Commissioner Duddlewood's I move to approve 01:31:25.039 --> 01:31:27.279 The consent agenda as posted 01:31:29.359 --> 01:31:33.520 Commissioner Beck I second the motion have a first and a 01:31:33.520 --> 01:31:35.760 second and call for vote on the board 01:31:46.000 --> 01:31:48.279 The motion carries 7-0 01:31:50.800 --> 01:31:54.159 Moves us to item 4 items for individual consideration 01:31:55.039 --> 01:31:57.039 I 01:32:04.159 --> 01:32:08.560 Correct turn this over to an offer introduction of this 01:32:08.560 --> 01:32:09.079 item today 01:32:11.039 --> 01:32:14.119 Thank You chair chairperson strange if you recall at the 01:32:14.119 --> 01:32:17.159 last meeting the PNC had requested that an item be 01:32:17.640 --> 01:32:20.409 Placed on the agenda for individual consideration to act on 01:32:20.409 --> 01:32:23.300 creation of a subcommittee in order to evaluate city 01:32:23.300 --> 01:32:24.520 initiated rezoning 01:32:25.039 --> 01:32:27.880 That would be in conformance with the comp plan comp plan 01:32:27.880 --> 01:32:28.520 2030 01:32:28.960 --> 01:32:31.350 That being said this item is before you to nominate and 01:32:31.350 --> 01:32:34.399 appoint members from this commission to serve on this sub 01:32:34.399 --> 01:32:35.079 committee 01:32:38.000 --> 01:32:40.960 Clarification how many members are we going to be? 01:32:44.840 --> 01:32:46.840 Discretionary up to you 01:32:49.560 --> 01:32:52.380 You have two motions the first motion would be for the 01:32:52.380 --> 01:32:55.600 creation the second motion would be for the nomination in 01:32:55.600 --> 01:32:56.079 the election 01:32:56.880 --> 01:33:00.010 The request was the Commissioner Tyler. Thank you. Could we 01:33:00.010 --> 01:33:01.840 get a little further clarification on? 01:33:03.960 --> 01:33:06.880 This is the first time since I've been on this body that we 01:33:06.880 --> 01:33:07.680 formed a subcommittee 01:33:07.680 --> 01:33:10.239 So we'd have a mode just a motion to create a subcommittee 01:33:10.239 --> 01:33:12.479 and then open the floor to nominations 01:33:12.720 --> 01:33:15.899 Take nominations and then ratify those nominations. So that 01:33:15.899 --> 01:33:18.520 's that's correct. There's no written procedure in our 01:33:18.520 --> 01:33:19.199 charter or 01:33:20.159 --> 01:33:23.680 Administrative code provision, but we do adopt the Roberts 01:33:23.680 --> 01:33:26.359 rules of procedure and those rules 01:33:26.680 --> 01:33:29.819 Allow the PNC to establish a subcommittee for these 01:33:29.819 --> 01:33:33.199 purposes. There is no rule concerning how many 01:33:33.920 --> 01:33:35.920 nominations you may make 01:33:36.119 --> 01:33:38.560 But that's the way that we'll probably do it tonight 01:33:38.560 --> 01:33:41.279 we'll just go ahead and do the motion whether or not you 01:33:41.279 --> 01:33:42.600 want it first created and 01:33:43.239 --> 01:33:45.829 That would be voted on and then we would go to an open 01:33:45.829 --> 01:33:47.720 discussion of nominations 01:33:50.479 --> 01:33:53.079 Commissioner Donald Woods within the nomination process 01:33:53.600 --> 01:33:56.640 Can commissioners suggest that they would love to be on 01:33:56.640 --> 01:34:00.039 that or like to be on that? So it helps the process 01:34:00.199 --> 01:34:02.960 Yes, now you I heard you indicate that there's no set 01:34:02.960 --> 01:34:03.439 number 01:34:03.960 --> 01:34:07.470 No, but I would recommend I think for the gas we had 01:34:07.470 --> 01:34:11.640 usually two people that would go and work together 01:34:12.520 --> 01:34:15.869 You know, maybe three if if you're worried about a tie 01:34:15.869 --> 01:34:17.560 breaker or whatever 01:34:19.840 --> 01:34:22.210 That's my recommendation to you I would have fewer rather 01:34:22.210 --> 01:34:23.000 than more 01:34:24.640 --> 01:34:27.010 They with staffs input chair would entertain a motion if we 01:34:27.010 --> 01:34:30.199 want to look at creating the subcommittee first 01:34:31.920 --> 01:34:33.920 Commissioner Taylor I 01:34:34.000 --> 01:34:36.550 Move that we create a subcommittee in order to evaluate 01:34:36.550 --> 01:34:39.479 city initiated rezoning in conformance with the Denton plan 01:34:39.479 --> 01:34:40.319 2030 01:34:43.319 --> 01:34:45.319 Commissioner Dudley's I second the motion 01:34:46.000 --> 01:34:48.369 Have a first and a second and we'll call for a vote on the 01:34:48.369 --> 01:34:48.760 board 01:34:49.680 --> 01:34:51.680 I 01:34:56.119 --> 01:35:00.470 That motion carries 7-0 since we have now created a sub 01:35:00.470 --> 01:35:02.039 committee 01:35:04.359 --> 01:35:07.399 We'll now discuss how many members are going to serve 01:35:09.079 --> 01:35:11.869 Commissioner Rozelle, thank you chair. I was wondering if 01:35:11.869 --> 01:35:15.470 it's possible or allowed by a show of hands to see who 01:35:15.470 --> 01:35:16.199 would be 01:35:17.520 --> 01:35:19.899 Wanting to serve in this subcommittee just so we know where 01:35:19.899 --> 01:35:22.279 nominations can maybe be be levied 01:35:22.279 --> 01:35:24.859 Is that possible? Can I request a show of hands if he would 01:35:24.859 --> 01:35:27.520 be interested in the subcommittee then? Sure 01:35:28.800 --> 01:35:30.800 Show hands who'd like to serve 01:35:36.319 --> 01:35:38.689 Commissioner was L. Are you not interested because I'm I'm 01:35:38.689 --> 01:35:39.960 just kind of curious 01:35:39.960 --> 01:35:42.359 I think you've brought up some really good points about 01:35:42.359 --> 01:35:46.039 some some of the rural. No, I sincerely do 01:35:46.039 --> 01:35:47.760 I think you brought up some very good points in your time 01:35:47.760 --> 01:35:49.699 on the Commission. Would you be interested in serving as 01:35:49.699 --> 01:35:49.920 well? 01:35:50.960 --> 01:35:52.960 Sure, yes 01:35:53.119 --> 01:35:55.119 I'm nominating you 01:36:00.840 --> 01:36:03.829 Okay, did we decide the number I was gonna ask I think 01:36:03.829 --> 01:36:07.380 before we do the nominations the chair would like to get 01:36:08.520 --> 01:36:12.560 Motion or suggestion of the number of persons to serve to 01:36:12.560 --> 01:36:13.939 form in this committee 01:36:14.960 --> 01:36:16.960 Subcommittee 01:36:18.600 --> 01:36:22.619 Commissioner Dudowitz I would recommend that we have three 01:36:26.439 --> 01:36:27.569 You make an emotion the motion would be that we create a 01:36:27.569 --> 01:36:32.920 subcommittee with three members of this commission, okay 01:36:36.640 --> 01:36:39.920 Commissioner Hudson second the motion. Okay. We have a 01:36:39.920 --> 01:36:42.680 motion on the floor to have three members appointed to the 01:36:42.680 --> 01:36:43.479 subcommittee 01:36:45.840 --> 01:36:48.970 Here we will we have a first and a second we will call for 01:36:48.970 --> 01:36:50.880 a vote on the board 01:36:59.279 --> 01:37:01.279 The motion carries 7-0 01:37:04.520 --> 01:37:07.560 Chair is now going to open it for nominations 01:37:08.560 --> 01:37:10.560 for three members to serve 01:37:11.039 --> 01:37:14.279 Would it be as a clarification from staff? Would it be? 01:37:15.359 --> 01:37:17.729 More appropriate to serve. I mean it's to nominate three 01:37:17.729 --> 01:37:20.800 people at one time or just to nominate them one at a time. 01:37:20.800 --> 01:37:21.000 I 01:37:21.720 --> 01:37:24.609 Think it's more appropriate to do it one at a time. We'll 01:37:24.609 --> 01:37:25.760 do it one at a time 01:37:27.039 --> 01:37:29.319 Commissioner Dudowitz, I I believe my 01:37:30.439 --> 01:37:32.439 That's leftover 01:37:32.479 --> 01:37:36.239 from my previous request to speak so okay 01:37:37.680 --> 01:37:39.500 Commissioner Brigham. Okay. Well, I was gonna make three 01:37:39.500 --> 01:37:42.319 nominations, but I'll just do them one at a time. I 01:37:43.000 --> 01:37:45.960 Would like to nominate Commissioner Taylor for the sub 01:37:45.960 --> 01:37:48.920 committee. I think this this was his initiative. I think he 01:37:48.920 --> 01:37:50.000 's got a great eye for it 01:37:50.000 --> 01:37:54.060 He's got a good attention to detail and it could be a great 01:37:54.060 --> 01:37:54.359 fit 01:37:55.640 --> 01:37:57.640 Thank You Commissioner 01:37:59.159 --> 01:38:01.159 Will we do these as a 01:38:01.640 --> 01:38:04.600 Doom individually then what are these as a motion in a 01:38:04.600 --> 01:38:06.920 second and then call for a vote on nominations? 01:38:07.159 --> 01:38:10.079 We can in fact that's more clear on the record 01:38:10.119 --> 01:38:12.899 But I'm going to leave it up to you whether or not you want 01:38:12.899 --> 01:38:15.060 to get three and then just move on the three 01:38:15.600 --> 01:38:17.760 Okay, as long as you have a consensus 01:38:22.399 --> 01:38:26.189 I'll take the nomination for another subcommittee member to 01:38:26.189 --> 01:38:26.680 serve 01:38:29.079 --> 01:38:32.869 Commissioner Taylor. Thank you chair. I would nominate 01:38:32.869 --> 01:38:34.680 Commissioner Dudowitz to serve as well 01:38:36.840 --> 01:38:38.840 Thank you 01:38:40.119 --> 01:38:42.529 Commissioner Brigham and I would also like to nominate 01:38:42.529 --> 01:38:45.520 Commissioner Roselle. I think in his time on P&Z 01:38:45.520 --> 01:38:47.960 He's brought up some really good points about future land 01:38:47.960 --> 01:38:50.579 use. I think you'd be a good fit. Thank you 01:38:52.800 --> 01:38:54.800 We have three members nominated 01:38:54.880 --> 01:38:57.430 Does anybody have another member that they would like to 01:38:57.430 --> 01:38:58.640 nominate and then we can 01:38:58.920 --> 01:39:01.289 Can look at whether we will do these individually or 01:39:01.289 --> 01:39:02.920 whether we will do these as three? 01:39:07.159 --> 01:39:09.159 Seeing that we have three members 01:39:09.279 --> 01:39:12.380 That are for consideration for our three-person sub 01:39:12.380 --> 01:39:15.760 committee the chair would enter a motion 01:39:20.279 --> 01:39:23.079 Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you chair. I move approval of 01:39:23.079 --> 01:39:27.399 the subcommittee with members commissioners Taylor Roselle 01:39:27.399 --> 01:39:29.100 and Dudowitz as the members 01:39:30.880 --> 01:39:34.949 Commissioner Beck I second the motion we have a first and a 01:39:34.949 --> 01:39:37.439 second. We'll call for a vote on 01:39:39.279 --> 01:39:41.279 I 01:39:47.159 --> 01:39:49.359 Motion carries 7-0. I 01:39:51.399 --> 01:39:54.119 Will move us on to our public hearings 01:39:54.920 --> 01:39:58.600 Chair wants to make a clarification. We're going to have 01:39:58.600 --> 01:40:01.920 one item. We're going to change the order this evening 01:40:02.119 --> 01:40:04.119 We're going to be moving item B 01:40:04.479 --> 01:40:08.840 Fr. 15 up to the first item to be discussed 01:40:09.359 --> 01:40:14.960 And then item a will become item B. So I'm going to 01:40:19.439 --> 01:40:21.819 Okay a point of order we also have a third item for public 01:40:21.819 --> 01:40:27.039 hearing if anybody's waiting for this the 01:40:27.359 --> 01:40:30.899 razor ranch item C has been tabled at this time 01:40:31.560 --> 01:40:33.989 Just to let you know if you are waiting for that item that 01:40:33.989 --> 01:40:34.960 has been tabled 01:40:36.199 --> 01:40:39.609 With that clarification we will then move on and open the 01:40:39.609 --> 01:40:40.840 public hearing for 01:40:42.159 --> 01:40:45.659 I'm sorry. This is just a point for the record when you say 01:40:45.659 --> 01:40:47.600 table. Do you mean postponed to? 01:40:48.560 --> 01:40:50.560 postpone to date certain 01:40:55.279 --> 01:40:57.279 Okay 01:40:59.920 --> 01:41:03.029 Well a clarification we talked about this earlier do we 01:41:03.029 --> 01:41:05.840 need a motion for that or just to state it here on the 01:41:05.840 --> 01:41:06.840 record this time 01:41:06.840 --> 01:41:10.920 I think that you can state it on the record at this time 01:41:11.680 --> 01:41:13.399 We'll stick with what we discussed earlier 01:41:13.399 --> 01:41:16.470 We're going to state it that it is going to be continued to 01:41:16.470 --> 01:41:17.439 our November 4th 01:41:18.000 --> 01:41:21.819 2015 meeting that is a razor ranch item and we will now 01:41:21.819 --> 01:41:23.399 move on to item 01:41:24.439 --> 01:41:27.329 Fr. 15 - 0 0 2 I'm going to go ahead and open the public 01:41:27.329 --> 01:41:28.840 hearing for this item 01:41:29.920 --> 01:41:32.170 Thank You chairperson. I'm going to ask Julie Wyatt with 01:41:32.170 --> 01:41:34.359 the planning department to make the presentation for the 01:41:34.359 --> 01:41:35.560 final replant of 01:41:36.039 --> 01:41:39.119 Ashroom addition lot 1 or block a thank you Julie 01:41:40.199 --> 01:41:42.250 Good evening. I'm Julie Wyatt associate planner with the 01:41:42.250 --> 01:41:43.000 city of Denny 01:41:43.800 --> 01:41:47.199 Tonight I'm presenting at fr 1520 Ashroom addition 01:41:48.159 --> 01:41:50.939 The request is to consider a right a final replant of the 01:41:50.939 --> 01:41:52.180 Ashroom addition 01:41:53.000 --> 01:41:56.029 It's a replant of lot 1 block a and they're taking in some 01:41:56.029 --> 01:41:58.319 additional unplatted property 01:41:59.439 --> 01:42:02.800 Section 212 of the Texas local government code does require 01:42:02.800 --> 01:42:04.560 a public hearing for all replants 01:42:05.840 --> 01:42:09.819 Here is the plot. This is the this is the original platted 01:42:09.819 --> 01:42:12.800 tract. They're adding in some previously unplatted 01:42:13.439 --> 01:42:15.439 property in order to 01:42:15.520 --> 01:42:17.520 Locate a shade structure in that area 01:42:18.279 --> 01:42:20.340 The plot hat does meet the technical requirements of the 01:42:20.340 --> 01:42:23.340 Denton development code and staff does recommend approval 01:42:23.340 --> 01:42:24.000 of this plot 01:42:28.680 --> 01:42:30.680 Any questions for staff 01:42:31.840 --> 01:42:34.090 Commissioner Briegel. Thank you chair. I was just curious. 01:42:34.090 --> 01:42:37.079 Is this the yoga hut or is this the Denton yoga center? I 01:42:38.239 --> 01:42:40.239 Think it's the yoga head. I 01:42:40.359 --> 01:42:42.359 Was just curious 01:42:42.359 --> 01:42:45.140 The applicant is has no bearing whatsoever on how I'm gonna 01:42:45.140 --> 01:42:45.720 judge on this 01:42:45.720 --> 01:42:48.159 I just was very curious because they're both right there 01:42:53.640 --> 01:42:59.399 Kindali yoga ashroom, okay more yoga is always good 01:43:01.640 --> 01:43:05.479 Kundalini, okay. Thanks. I was just curious. Thank you 01:43:10.119 --> 01:43:10.760 Now see any other question this is a public hearing is 01:43:10.760 --> 01:43:16.199 there anyone here that would like to speak on this side 01:43:22.520 --> 01:43:24.520 Anyone that would like to speak on this side 01:43:27.359 --> 01:43:31.409 Seeing none we will close the public hearing and the chair 01:43:31.409 --> 01:43:33.579 will entertain a motion 01:43:38.479 --> 01:43:43.779 Commissioner Beck I move that we approve FR 15 0020 01:43:45.239 --> 01:43:47.239 Commissioner Briegel. I'll second that 01:43:49.159 --> 01:43:51.539 We have a first and a second we'll call for a vote on the 01:43:51.539 --> 01:43:51.939 board 01:43:52.520 --> 01:43:54.520 I 01:44:00.119 --> 01:44:02.119 Motion carries 7-0 01:44:03.239 --> 01:44:06.039 That will move us back to our item 01:44:07.600 --> 01:44:10.199 Pz 15 - 0 1 6 01:44:11.039 --> 01:44:15.270 We will open the public hearing and ask for staff 01:44:15.270 --> 01:44:17.159 presentation. Thank you chair 01:44:17.159 --> 01:44:20.050 I'm going to ask Jeff Whitaker to make the presentation on 01:44:20.050 --> 01:44:22.960 the city of Denton's mobility plan and provide an update 01:44:44.000 --> 01:44:46.510 Good evening Commission. My name is Jeff Whitaker. I'm the 01:44:46.510 --> 01:44:48.750 project manager on the didn't mobility plan impact free 01:44:48.750 --> 01:44:49.199 study 01:44:49.720 --> 01:44:52.439 And I'm with Kimmy Horn associates and I'm gonna give you a 01:44:52.439 --> 01:44:55.789 presentation to outline the progress we made and give you 01:44:55.789 --> 01:44:56.260 some updates 01:44:56.260 --> 01:44:57.520 in the mobility plan 01:44:57.520 --> 01:44:59.960 So why are we updating the mobility plan? One is didn't 01:44:59.960 --> 01:45:02.960 currently has a mobility plan. It's an existing roadway 01:45:02.960 --> 01:45:03.560 network plan 01:45:03.560 --> 01:45:06.510 It's a map towards the future as you can see in the map in 01:45:06.510 --> 01:45:07.199 front of you 01:45:07.520 --> 01:45:10.739 The existing mobility plan consists of a primary major 01:45:10.739 --> 01:45:14.039 arterial secondary arterial and collector facilities 01:45:14.039 --> 01:45:16.439 That's the current design standards that are adopted within 01:45:16.439 --> 01:45:18.890 the city didn't we're not looking at modifying those we're 01:45:18.890 --> 01:45:19.520 looking down on 01:45:20.279 --> 01:45:22.279 elaborating on this current mobility plan at this time 01:45:23.520 --> 01:45:25.550 So why to update the mobility mobility plan one is to 01:45:25.550 --> 01:45:28.720 determine the current capacity of the existing streets 01:45:28.720 --> 01:45:31.390 That's already used up. We want to know how much of the 01:45:31.390 --> 01:45:33.920 capacity of the existing roadway networks used up 01:45:33.920 --> 01:45:35.399 I think is you drive around the city 01:45:35.399 --> 01:45:37.649 You can kind of take a guess on some of the roads of where 01:45:37.649 --> 01:45:38.960 we may need some extra capacity 01:45:38.960 --> 01:45:40.960 but we want to actually quantify that we 01:45:41.600 --> 01:45:44.100 wanted to add the approved streets are already approved for 01:45:44.100 --> 01:45:44.319 the 01:45:45.520 --> 01:45:48.289 Approved NPC such as the hills of Denton Coles Ranch and 01:45:48.289 --> 01:45:50.520 how to ranch the reason we wanted to do this is we want to 01:45:50.520 --> 01:45:52.199 Make sure we were planning how to connect to them in the 01:45:52.199 --> 01:45:52.520 future 01:45:52.520 --> 01:45:54.970 And if they're on a map we can know how to connect to them 01:45:54.970 --> 01:45:55.680 in the future 01:45:56.239 --> 01:45:58.609 We also want to look at upgrading downgrading some streets 01:45:58.609 --> 01:46:00.600 based on the projected traffic volumes 01:46:01.439 --> 01:46:03.869 The I believe the last of the real last thorough update was 01:46:03.869 --> 01:46:06.239 done in 2000 to the mobility plan. There's been some 01:46:07.439 --> 01:46:09.439 Several minor updates over the last couple years 01:46:09.640 --> 01:46:11.789 But we wanted to take a good hard look to see is what we 01:46:11.789 --> 01:46:15.350 were planning back in 2000 adequate either too much or too 01:46:15.350 --> 01:46:15.800 little 01:46:16.680 --> 01:46:19.250 We wanted better realign some of the streets in the 01:46:19.250 --> 01:46:21.859 existing mobility plan to improve traffic movement and by 01:46:21.859 --> 01:46:22.960 that's really connectivity 01:46:22.960 --> 01:46:25.340 We were looking at key locations of the city where there's 01:46:25.340 --> 01:46:27.310 opportunities to connect and we want to preserve those 01:46:27.310 --> 01:46:28.439 opportunities to connect 01:46:29.439 --> 01:46:31.699 Some opportunities if you don't put them on the map they go 01:46:31.699 --> 01:46:33.789 away and there's no connection that will occur in the 01:46:33.789 --> 01:46:34.199 future 01:46:35.560 --> 01:46:38.020 Another one is to develop a build-up condition roadway 01:46:38.020 --> 01:46:38.680 network scenario 01:46:38.680 --> 01:46:40.829 And one of the reasons we wanted to do this and it was 01:46:40.829 --> 01:46:43.199 important this is we're currently going through an impact 01:46:43.199 --> 01:46:43.560 fee study 01:46:43.560 --> 01:46:45.729 Process and we wanted to make sure that the roadmap we were 01:46:45.729 --> 01:46:47.520 using is adequate to support the next five years 01:46:47.920 --> 01:46:49.880 And one thing that's important about that state law 01:46:49.880 --> 01:46:52.359 requires us to review this mobility plan every five years 01:46:52.760 --> 01:46:55.130 Along with the impact fee so every five years we required 01:46:55.130 --> 01:46:56.039 this mobility plan 01:46:56.279 --> 01:46:58.409 But we can look at it on a weekly basis if we wanted to 01:46:58.409 --> 01:47:01.060 every development that comes in we have ability to look at 01:47:01.060 --> 01:47:01.239 that 01:47:02.840 --> 01:47:05.939 So one of the key components of this mobility plan that 01:47:05.939 --> 01:47:08.090 wasn't done in private previous years was the develop of 01:47:08.090 --> 01:47:08.840 what we call a trans 01:47:08.840 --> 01:47:11.909 CAD model trans CAD is just a software. That's the software 01:47:11.909 --> 01:47:13.720 that we use to develop the mobility plan 01:47:13.760 --> 01:47:16.010 It's actually the same software that the North Central 01:47:16.010 --> 01:47:17.640 Texas Council of Governments the MPO 01:47:18.039 --> 01:47:19.840 Uses to run the region-wide model 01:47:19.840 --> 01:47:21.989 The reason we wanted to do that is because we wanted our 01:47:21.989 --> 01:47:24.079 models to be able to speak to each other in case they ever 01:47:24.079 --> 01:47:27.149 needed to and we can share information between the regional 01:47:27.149 --> 01:47:28.960 planning Commission and then 01:47:30.359 --> 01:47:33.800 So what the model helps us do it helps us to understand the 01:47:33.800 --> 01:47:35.560 existing carry capacity of the roadway network 01:47:35.600 --> 01:47:37.710 And it also allows us to understand the future carrying 01:47:37.710 --> 01:47:39.039 capacity on the roadway network 01:47:39.880 --> 01:47:41.399 We calibrated this model 01:47:41.399 --> 01:47:44.189 It's one of the tougher steps of our project is we wanted 01:47:44.189 --> 01:47:46.800 to make sure the existing model matched close as it could 01:47:47.239 --> 01:47:49.909 Within an adopted there's an adopted standard by Federal 01:47:49.909 --> 01:47:52.680 Highway Administration that says your mallard your models 01:47:52.680 --> 01:47:53.640 adequately calibrated 01:47:53.640 --> 01:47:56.359 And the model from didn't is actually meets those standards 01:47:56.359 --> 01:47:58.970 Which is not every model you work on we can say that on but 01:47:58.970 --> 01:48:00.319 then we were able to say that 01:48:01.680 --> 01:48:03.560 Why were we able to do that in some models? 01:48:03.560 --> 01:48:05.520 We don't have enough data to do that and then we counted a 01:48:05.520 --> 01:48:09.000 hundred and eleven locations and the map you see the black 01:48:09.000 --> 01:48:09.359 dots or 01:48:09.359 --> 01:48:10.279 locations 01:48:10.279 --> 01:48:13.229 One thing to note is text dot roads are not shown on these 01:48:13.229 --> 01:48:13.859 locations 01:48:13.859 --> 01:48:16.229 That's because text dot maintains their own count system. 01:48:16.229 --> 01:48:17.199 We were able to get their data 01:48:17.319 --> 01:48:20.109 So we have more than a hundred and eleven locations if you 01:48:20.109 --> 01:48:21.520 add in the textile locations 01:48:24.159 --> 01:48:26.579 So those existing traffic counts are what we use to calib 01:48:26.579 --> 01:48:27.960 rate the model 01:48:27.960 --> 01:48:30.329 So that's what we compared our model to what the existing 01:48:30.329 --> 01:48:32.399 was and then we looked at the future land use plan 01:48:33.199 --> 01:48:35.279 We use the comp plan that was recently adopted in the didn 01:48:35.279 --> 01:48:38.640 't 2030 plan and loaded our demographics into the model 01:48:38.640 --> 01:48:39.159 network 01:48:40.239 --> 01:48:42.500 And projected traffic in the future 01:48:45.840 --> 01:48:46.569 So the development of the mobility plan map really came in 01:48:46.569 --> 01:48:50.539 three stages on top of the modeling we really looked at as 01:48:50.539 --> 01:48:51.520 I mentioned 01:48:51.520 --> 01:48:53.800 The master plan communities then we looked to see working 01:48:53.800 --> 01:48:54.560 to key new roads 01:48:54.800 --> 01:48:56.859 And then we once we had those we ran the model again and 01:48:56.859 --> 01:48:59.439 wanted to see where upgrades and downgrades could occur 01:49:00.520 --> 01:49:03.340 So as the map in front of you shows the brown roads are the 01:49:03.340 --> 01:49:05.819 new roads. These are the master plan community roads 01:49:05.880 --> 01:49:08.649 These are simply us just updating the map. They're already 01:49:08.649 --> 01:49:10.640 approved and we want to make sure that they're adequately 01:49:11.319 --> 01:49:13.689 Put in the model for two reasons. We want to make sure that 01:49:13.689 --> 01:49:14.439 the capacity that those 01:49:15.000 --> 01:49:17.579 Facilities are providing are shown and reflected in our in 01:49:17.579 --> 01:49:19.760 our network, but also to make sure that we connect to in 01:49:19.760 --> 01:49:20.199 the future 01:49:20.840 --> 01:49:23.659 The new roads we laid out and a lot of the new roads are 01:49:23.659 --> 01:49:26.279 put into areas where there's not much development out there 01:49:26.279 --> 01:49:26.680 because they 01:49:26.680 --> 01:49:28.640 Have opportunity for new roads 01:49:28.640 --> 01:49:31.000 Many times if we could always relay out our cities 01:49:31.000 --> 01:49:32.960 We might relay our cities differently so we were trying to 01:49:32.960 --> 01:49:35.579 learn from previous layouts and other communities and how 01:49:35.579 --> 01:49:36.399 we laid out this network 01:49:36.880 --> 01:49:40.399 So we laid out various networks for the new roadways 01:49:42.319 --> 01:49:44.930 And then how do we determine the updates this is where we 01:49:44.930 --> 01:49:45.800 really use the model 01:49:45.800 --> 01:49:47.850 We want to make sure that what's going to load and we also 01:49:47.850 --> 01:49:48.640 use the land use plan 01:49:48.960 --> 01:49:51.739 We want to know what volumes are on the model today 01:49:51.920 --> 01:49:54.289 What volumes in the model are going to be in the future in 01:49:54.289 --> 01:49:56.359 some areas the model the volumes don't increase actually 01:49:56.359 --> 01:49:57.140 some areas the volumes 01:49:57.140 --> 01:49:59.590 Actually could go down a little bit because more roads are 01:49:59.590 --> 01:50:01.840 built as more roads have built some traffic shifts 01:50:02.640 --> 01:50:05.229 connectivity land use land use is important we wanted to 01:50:05.229 --> 01:50:07.079 make sure we understood the land use out there we want to 01:50:07.079 --> 01:50:07.500 make sure the 01:50:07.500 --> 01:50:10.270 roadways can match the land use and there are existing 01:50:10.270 --> 01:50:12.199 conditions and constraints and some roadways we 01:50:12.920 --> 01:50:16.189 In some roads we probably want to have eight lanes if we 01:50:16.189 --> 01:50:19.079 could because there's too much capacity on it but we don't 01:50:19.079 --> 01:50:19.760 have the right of way to do that and the buildings are in 01:50:19.760 --> 01:50:21.680 front so there's constraints we have to deal with 01:50:21.680 --> 01:50:24.750 I just wanted to give you two examples the first is an what 01:50:24.750 --> 01:50:28.180 we call an upgrade Jim Crystal Road was evaluated 01:50:28.720 --> 01:50:32.390 And what you see on this map is green if you're familiar 01:50:32.390 --> 01:50:34.689 looking at them didn't mobility plan which I've looked at a 01:50:34.689 --> 01:50:35.640 lot of the last year 01:50:35.840 --> 01:50:39.880 Green means secondary arterial red means primary arterial 01:50:39.880 --> 01:50:43.199 It's the color indication so on the back it shows green 01:50:43.199 --> 01:50:45.640 that's what Jim Crystal used to be its current class was a 01:50:45.640 --> 01:50:46.560 secondary arterial 01:50:46.840 --> 01:50:49.220 When we ran the model there was a lot of traffic that's 01:50:49.220 --> 01:50:51.920 eventually in that industrial area gonna go towards I-35 01:50:51.920 --> 01:50:54.000 and from Marsh Branch to I-35 01:50:54.000 --> 01:50:56.020 It really needed some extra capacity to deal with the 01:50:56.020 --> 01:50:57.279 turning movements at I-35 01:50:58.000 --> 01:51:00.430 So one of our recommendations was to upgrade Jim Crystal 01:51:00.430 --> 01:51:02.520 Road and so for all the upgrades and downgrades 01:51:02.520 --> 01:51:04.890 We went for every road pretty much in the city of Denton 01:51:04.890 --> 01:51:06.579 that's on the mobility plan we went through this exercise 01:51:06.840 --> 01:51:09.119 Just some of them did not change. We've only identified the 01:51:09.119 --> 01:51:10.079 ones that have changed 01:51:12.439 --> 01:51:14.720 On the opposite end we looked at a road called Nottingham 01:51:14.720 --> 01:51:16.720 it runs through a residential area 01:51:17.199 --> 01:51:19.729 It's currently on the thorough for plan as a secondary 01:51:19.729 --> 01:51:22.180 arterial. It doesn't show the volumes need to be a 01:51:22.180 --> 01:51:23.000 secondary arterial 01:51:23.000 --> 01:51:25.000 It's land use context really doesn't 01:51:25.439 --> 01:51:27.390 Encourage a secondary arterial. It's a neighborhood type of 01:51:27.390 --> 01:51:30.989 facility as well as it's got some limited right away 01:51:30.989 --> 01:51:31.819 constraints 01:51:31.819 --> 01:51:34.699 And so we we recommend downgrading 01:51:35.359 --> 01:51:37.560 Nottingham really to match what the land use was out there 01:51:39.199 --> 01:51:41.199 And so on the map in front of you 01:51:42.039 --> 01:51:44.840 All the blue roadways are where we had upgrades 01:51:45.560 --> 01:51:47.979 most of the upgrades you'll see are in future areas and one 01:51:47.979 --> 01:51:49.779 of the reasons we're looking at that is we 01:51:50.279 --> 01:51:52.649 aired a little bit on the heritage and caution if it was 01:51:52.649 --> 01:51:54.920 close to the threshold of need and upgrade we kind of went 01:51:54.920 --> 01:51:55.079 with 01:51:55.079 --> 01:51:57.149 The philosophy of getting the right away now and most of 01:51:57.149 --> 01:51:59.640 those are in the areas of new roadways 01:52:00.319 --> 01:52:02.779 Downgrades those are the areas like I just mentioned on Not 01:52:02.779 --> 01:52:05.279 tingham where we felt like the facility did not need to be 01:52:05.279 --> 01:52:06.960 what the current thorough for plan was 01:52:07.239 --> 01:52:09.380 And then we had some realignments just we were looking at 01:52:09.380 --> 01:52:11.600 the alignments some of them are like Bonnie Bray 01:52:11.600 --> 01:52:14.380 It's being designed right now. It's being realigned so we 01:52:14.380 --> 01:52:16.350 're matching the alignment that's being designed currently 01:52:16.350 --> 01:52:18.960 so some of those are realignments 01:52:21.239 --> 01:52:23.720 When we put all these different maps together we get a 01:52:24.039 --> 01:52:26.020 Post mobility plan ultimately the mobility plan is going to 01:52:26.020 --> 01:52:28.079 look very similar to what you saw at the first slide 01:52:28.279 --> 01:52:30.729 We're gonna match that but this is to communicate what we 01:52:30.729 --> 01:52:34.000 changed the yellow slides are up when you see yellow behind 01:52:34.000 --> 01:52:34.199 a road 01:52:34.199 --> 01:52:36.050 That means that's been an updated facility that means the 01:52:36.050 --> 01:52:39.060 classifications change or it's been realigned when you see 01:52:39.060 --> 01:52:39.439 pink 01:52:39.439 --> 01:52:42.470 That means it's a new facility, but a new facility could 01:52:42.470 --> 01:52:44.000 mean an NPC it could mean 01:52:45.399 --> 01:52:47.399 It's a brand new roadway 01:52:47.479 --> 01:52:49.590 Those were just to let everyone know when they're looking 01:52:49.590 --> 01:52:52.000 at this maps that if there's something highlighted behind 01:52:52.000 --> 01:52:52.260 it 01:52:52.260 --> 01:52:54.630 That's what's changed since the last time they looked since 01:52:54.630 --> 01:52:55.640 the current existing map 01:52:57.239 --> 01:52:59.609 One thing that we did and we wanted to show this slide. 01:52:59.609 --> 01:53:01.729 This is the result of our chance-gap model one thing you 01:53:01.729 --> 01:53:01.920 note 01:53:02.600 --> 01:53:06.399 And this is a common occurrence across all of Texas is you 01:53:06.399 --> 01:53:08.260 're never going to necessarily build yourself out of 01:53:08.260 --> 01:53:08.760 congestion 01:53:08.760 --> 01:53:11.180 That's why other mechanisms are port and connectivity 01:53:12.039 --> 01:53:14.279 Walking etc. So you'll see in the core central area 01:53:14.279 --> 01:53:16.789 You'll see some red red usually means that it's not the 01:53:16.789 --> 01:53:19.189 great level service because there's not as much room to 01:53:19.189 --> 01:53:20.000 widen roadways 01:53:20.000 --> 01:53:22.250 So we have to figure out other ways to accommodate that but 01:53:22.250 --> 01:53:24.810 one thing that's positive when we ran the results of this 01:53:24.810 --> 01:53:25.159 model 01:53:25.720 --> 01:53:29.279 Is that we had the delay and congestion of today's 01:53:29.279 --> 01:53:30.199 environment? 01:53:30.199 --> 01:53:32.449 And we added all the language we have in the future and we 01:53:32.449 --> 01:53:35.279 built this new updated model and the delay slightly went 01:53:35.279 --> 01:53:35.520 down 01:53:35.640 --> 01:53:37.840 So that means we building a lot. We're building roads 01:53:37.840 --> 01:53:41.100 We're also adding a lot of people and there was a reduction 01:53:41.100 --> 01:53:42.880 in delay from what you see today 01:53:42.880 --> 01:53:45.500 And that doesn't always happen a lot of time when you add a 01:53:45.500 --> 01:53:45.840 lot of 01:53:46.880 --> 01:53:48.439 Growth even if you're building roads 01:53:48.439 --> 01:53:50.880 You can't keep up with it, but your plan at least kept up 01:53:50.880 --> 01:53:52.199 with today's environment 01:53:52.199 --> 01:53:54.569 Which was a positive thing when we tested it against the 01:53:54.569 --> 01:53:57.239 current mobility plan. It was about 40% worse 01:53:57.239 --> 01:53:59.380 So if you will we're saving about 40% with the 01:53:59.380 --> 01:54:01.939 recommendations that we're making on this plan in delay 01:54:06.039 --> 01:54:09.199 So one of the we've worked on this plan to a little history 01:54:09.199 --> 01:54:12.199 We probably I think first was in this plan back in January 01:54:12.199 --> 01:54:13.039 time frame 01:54:13.039 --> 01:54:15.960 And we've been working on with various members of the 01:54:15.960 --> 01:54:18.159 community fed several calls as well as 01:54:20.159 --> 01:54:22.569 Several meetings with you guys already as well several 01:54:22.569 --> 01:54:26.000 meetings with the mobility mobility and council committee 01:54:26.439 --> 01:54:29.460 so with this staff is looking for comments as part of the 01:54:29.460 --> 01:54:31.119 public hearing as well as 01:54:32.000 --> 01:54:34.439 Staff is recommending approval to propose mobility plan 01:54:34.439 --> 01:54:37.949 that's presented. So with that open any questions that you 01:54:37.949 --> 01:54:38.539 have or 01:54:39.560 --> 01:54:41.560 public hearing 01:54:45.720 --> 01:54:48.920 Commissioner Bruegel, thank you chair mr. Whitaker 01:54:50.439 --> 01:54:52.350 And I'm probably gonna have more questions later as well, 01:54:52.350 --> 01:54:54.840 but I'll just start with these couple ones 01:54:55.359 --> 01:54:58.079 You use the example of Nottingham being downgraded from a 01:54:58.079 --> 01:55:00.640 secondary arterial to a collector street 01:55:01.399 --> 01:55:04.520 I'm curious. Will there be any city initiated? 01:55:06.239 --> 01:55:08.020 Projects to calm traffic on that street since there is it 01:55:08.020 --> 01:55:11.680 is in a residential neighborhood. It's going to be a 01:55:11.680 --> 01:55:12.119 collector 01:55:12.119 --> 01:55:15.390 There's a park there. I know you can designate it as a 01:55:15.390 --> 01:55:16.140 collector 01:55:16.140 --> 01:55:18.520 But if it's built as a four lane highway going through a 01:55:18.520 --> 01:55:20.319 neighborhood people are gonna speed down it 01:55:20.359 --> 01:55:22.359 So I'm curious. Are there gonna be any? 01:55:23.279 --> 01:55:26.130 City initiated or I'm sorry, maybe and maybe this would be 01:55:26.130 --> 01:55:26.920 a better question 01:55:28.840 --> 01:55:31.449 Purpose of this the map we are dedicating it to be a 01:55:31.449 --> 01:55:35.159 collector which would lead it towards a different type of 01:55:35.159 --> 01:55:36.260 desired speed 01:55:36.439 --> 01:55:39.060 Etc so that would lead to be more open to those type of 01:55:39.060 --> 01:55:40.159 things now, right? 01:55:40.159 --> 01:55:43.359 So p is p.s here. Could you could you answer that for me, 01:55:43.359 --> 01:55:43.819 please sir is 01:55:44.800 --> 01:55:48.920 And if there's not a city initiated traffic calming 01:55:49.600 --> 01:55:52.560 Device what what what would neighbor what would the 01:55:52.560 --> 01:55:54.760 neighbors have to do to initiate? 01:55:54.760 --> 01:55:57.960 Yeah, normally the process that the traffic engineers 01:55:57.960 --> 01:56:01.420 follows is that the neighborhood actually approaches 01:56:02.520 --> 01:56:05.640 That there is issue here on the street. They would like to 01:56:05.640 --> 01:56:06.500 see some action 01:56:07.279 --> 01:56:10.159 They will go and conduct a study. They look at the traffic 01:56:10.319 --> 01:56:13.720 They look at the speeds and then based on that they will 01:56:13.720 --> 01:56:16.699 come back and do some actual construction 01:56:16.699 --> 01:56:17.159 Okay 01:56:17.159 --> 01:56:21.000 So so in the case when any street in the city is downgraded 01:56:21.239 --> 01:56:24.680 If the neighborhood would like to calm traffic on that they 01:56:24.680 --> 01:56:26.680 would approach someone in the engineering department or 01:56:26.680 --> 01:56:27.439 they would approach 01:56:27.439 --> 01:56:31.500 Yes, the traffic engineer. Okay. All right. Thank you. My 01:56:31.500 --> 01:56:32.479 second question is 01:56:33.520 --> 01:56:37.449 I served on the bike plan years and years ago. And so I I'm 01:56:37.449 --> 01:56:39.779 sorry. I should know this answer 01:56:40.680 --> 01:56:42.119 as 01:56:42.119 --> 01:56:44.840 I understand it when we are building a when we are 01:56:44.840 --> 01:56:47.359 rebuilding a street not just paving it over 01:56:47.359 --> 01:56:49.840 But we as we did like on Jago several years ago 01:56:49.840 --> 01:56:53.909 We we dug it up and we rebuilt it and we put we we put the 01:56:53.909 --> 01:56:54.359 bike 01:56:54.800 --> 01:56:57.310 The Sharos there because that was part of the bike plan. I 01:56:57.310 --> 01:56:59.920 'm curious when we're building these new streets 01:57:00.520 --> 01:57:02.939 That are proposed in the mobility plan. What are the 01:57:02.939 --> 01:57:04.720 requirements for building? 01:57:05.560 --> 01:57:08.170 Designated bike lanes not a wide outside lane or a share. 01:57:08.170 --> 01:57:10.680 But what are the requirements for a designated bike lane 01:57:10.680 --> 01:57:11.720 and also? 01:57:12.399 --> 01:57:14.399 sidewalks for these new these new builds 01:57:15.279 --> 01:57:18.250 The designated bike lanes would be on those areas where we 01:57:18.250 --> 01:57:21.840 already have a bike plan approved by the city 01:57:22.239 --> 01:57:25.010 So if the bike plan is already there the engineers when 01:57:25.010 --> 01:57:28.560 they design the street, they will take that into account 01:57:29.800 --> 01:57:31.359 if 01:57:31.359 --> 01:57:34.560 When we go through the context sensitive process 01:57:34.560 --> 01:57:38.300 Which is still part of the consultant charge at this time. 01:57:38.300 --> 01:57:40.840 We will continue to work on that process 01:57:41.640 --> 01:57:45.659 with the mobility committee and the council to see how much 01:57:45.659 --> 01:57:50.119 if there's acceptance of these CSS process if that is 01:57:50.560 --> 01:57:52.560 becomes part of the 01:57:53.920 --> 01:57:58.630 Design tool then in that case using the CSS process which 01:57:58.630 --> 01:58:01.439 we touched base on in one presentation 01:58:01.439 --> 01:58:03.439 I had done to you all earlier 01:58:03.640 --> 01:58:08.090 The neighborhood and the stakeholders will be contacted. 01:58:08.090 --> 01:58:10.960 There'll be a meeting based on the stakeholder input 01:58:11.159 --> 01:58:13.439 You will come up with what is the best? 01:58:14.159 --> 01:58:18.180 use for that particular street based on the neighborhood 01:58:18.920 --> 01:58:21.289 Requirements and the constraints that are there on that 01:58:21.289 --> 01:58:24.199 street based on the right away based on the traffic 01:58:24.279 --> 01:58:27.369 so there would be so the engineering department would have 01:58:27.369 --> 01:58:27.760 like a 01:58:28.359 --> 01:58:30.239 neighborhood meeting with 01:58:30.239 --> 01:58:32.819 People in that area when they're when you're when you're 01:58:32.819 --> 01:58:35.470 proposing a new road to go through there and they could 01:58:35.470 --> 01:58:36.279 help the neighborhood 01:58:36.279 --> 01:58:38.279 Can then help design that street? 01:58:39.039 --> 01:58:42.970 That will happen if the CSS process is adopted by the city 01:58:42.970 --> 01:58:43.760 council 01:58:44.319 --> 01:58:48.119 Okay, if it is not adopted then basically whatever cross- 01:58:48.119 --> 01:58:50.359 section we have if there is no 01:58:51.119 --> 01:58:54.560 Bike lane designated as part of the overall plan then they 01:58:54.560 --> 01:58:58.399 would not design that as a bike lane in there and how do 01:58:58.399 --> 01:58:58.539 you? 01:58:59.680 --> 01:59:03.609 The use of the CSS process is approved by City Council. Is 01:59:03.609 --> 01:59:05.439 that part of this mobility plan? 01:59:05.439 --> 01:59:08.720 Is that it is not it's not part of the mobility plan. It is 01:59:08.720 --> 01:59:09.560 just a standalone 01:59:10.960 --> 01:59:13.920 Item there as part of the consultant work effort 01:59:14.279 --> 01:59:17.810 So we still have to know we are trying to get this mobility 01:59:17.810 --> 01:59:20.560 plan and the road impact free process done 01:59:20.800 --> 01:59:24.520 And then we will continue on with the CSS process. We had 01:59:24.520 --> 01:59:27.119 one presentation to the mobility committee 01:59:27.560 --> 01:59:31.560 We need to go back and do a kind of a workshop to them 01:59:31.560 --> 01:59:36.470 So they understand how this will work as if they will sit 01:59:36.470 --> 01:59:38.479 there like stakeholders in the workshop 01:59:38.479 --> 01:59:42.100 And they will put their comments in and then come out with 01:59:42.100 --> 01:59:43.960 okay. This is what the section looks like 01:59:44.000 --> 01:59:47.949 This is the best so that process if it is accepted by the 01:59:47.949 --> 01:59:48.720 council 01:59:48.720 --> 01:59:52.020 It will become part of the ordinance. So later on if the 01:59:52.020 --> 01:59:53.000 city is going to 01:59:53.880 --> 01:59:55.840 rehab a street 01:59:55.840 --> 01:59:58.800 The CSS process will be one of the things that could be 01:59:58.800 --> 02:00:01.600 used there if the neighborhood desires that 02:00:02.079 --> 02:00:03.960 Instead of the same cross-section. We want to have a 02:00:03.960 --> 02:00:05.880 different cross section. Okay 02:00:05.880 --> 02:00:08.020 So that's that's something separate that City Council would 02:00:08.020 --> 02:00:11.319 see that planning and zoning wouldn't necessarily see yes, 02:00:11.319 --> 02:00:12.140 that is correct. Okay 02:00:12.140 --> 02:00:14.140 Thank you. Appreciate it 02:00:16.439 --> 02:00:17.960 Commissioner Rosal 02:00:17.960 --> 02:00:18.760 Thank You chair 02:00:18.760 --> 02:00:21.590 I'm currently looking at the current mobility map and 02:00:21.590 --> 02:00:24.039 highlighted as yellow green and red streets 02:00:24.319 --> 02:00:27.880 The green indicating existing road not to class standard 02:00:29.159 --> 02:00:30.640 can 02:00:30.640 --> 02:00:34.079 Staff or someone walk me through how the prioritization of 02:00:34.079 --> 02:00:35.899 correcting this happens 02:00:35.920 --> 02:00:39.060 Is there priority over the new roads that need to be built 02:00:39.060 --> 02:00:39.720 or how does? 02:00:40.319 --> 02:00:43.180 I'm trying to understand that's a lot of green roads that 02:00:43.180 --> 02:00:45.859 we are identifying or not up to class standard 02:00:46.000 --> 02:00:49.199 Is there a plan of action or how do you prioritize? 02:00:49.960 --> 02:00:51.960 Getting those roads up to class standard 02:00:53.800 --> 02:00:57.159 Not up to class standard means that the road is designated 02:00:57.159 --> 02:00:59.439 to be a primary or a secondary arterial 02:00:59.520 --> 02:01:02.239 Which is either a six lane or a four lane highway, but 02:01:02.239 --> 02:01:05.520 currently it is not so if it is currently not 02:01:06.439 --> 02:01:08.119 to that 02:01:08.119 --> 02:01:10.260 classification then over time 02:01:12.000 --> 02:01:15.680 And this is where the mobility plan comes in and the model 02:01:15.680 --> 02:01:16.800 comes into play 02:01:17.359 --> 02:01:20.720 With the model that has now we already have it as a tool 02:01:20.720 --> 02:01:21.000 now 02:01:21.359 --> 02:01:24.800 We know what streets are the most affected where the level 02:01:24.800 --> 02:01:26.300 of service is the lowest 02:01:26.800 --> 02:01:32.239 So using that data when we do bond sales later on to have 02:01:32.239 --> 02:01:34.119 capacity projects 02:01:35.039 --> 02:01:38.340 Those streets could be targeted that okay. These are the 02:01:38.340 --> 02:01:40.399 roads where we have the worst condition right now 02:01:40.520 --> 02:01:42.920 So we need to spend the money and bring them up to the 02:01:42.920 --> 02:01:44.199 standard so it's based on 02:01:45.479 --> 02:01:48.680 Condition and traffic patterns those two things with 02:01:48.680 --> 02:01:49.039 traffic 02:01:49.039 --> 02:01:51.840 Yeah condition is if the traffic is not there 02:01:52.000 --> 02:01:54.939 But the condition has gone down the OCI rating has gone 02:01:54.939 --> 02:01:55.239 down 02:01:55.439 --> 02:01:57.470 Then city would spend some money just to bring the 02:01:57.470 --> 02:02:00.439 condition up the structure condition. Okay. Thank you 02:02:01.640 --> 02:02:04.710 Commissioner Dudowitz a question you mentioned a mobility 02:02:04.710 --> 02:02:07.079 committee. Could you tell me who's on that committee, 02:02:07.079 --> 02:02:07.279 please? 02:02:09.399 --> 02:02:11.770 Identify them as staff and or citizens is comprised of 02:02:11.770 --> 02:02:14.880 three council members three council members 02:02:19.399 --> 02:02:21.399 Any other questions for staff 02:02:25.479 --> 02:02:27.479 Thank you 02:02:27.840 --> 02:02:30.880 This is a public hearing we do have some cards 02:02:32.399 --> 02:02:35.270 The first card I'm a call on is our friend Brian Bentley 02:02:35.270 --> 02:02:36.960 good to see you back 02:02:38.720 --> 02:02:40.720 Brian you only get three minutes 02:02:45.199 --> 02:02:49.800 First we need to talk about the area over near Clear Creek 02:02:50.479 --> 02:02:53.199 As a matter of a point of order we need a name and an 02:02:53.199 --> 02:02:53.859 address 02:03:06.359 --> 02:03:08.359 There we go, all right 02:03:09.359 --> 02:03:13.600 Well, okay. My name is Brian Bentley 2528 Jamestown didn't 02:03:13.600 --> 02:03:14.060 Texas 02:03:15.439 --> 02:03:16.680 and 02:03:16.680 --> 02:03:19.770 You know, I'm pretty crazy kind of foolish at times and I'm 02:03:19.770 --> 02:03:22.199 gonna prove to you tonight that I am because 02:03:23.159 --> 02:03:27.729 If I were to support this mobility plan, I could make money 02:03:27.729 --> 02:03:28.279 on it 02:03:29.279 --> 02:03:31.920 But now since I'm going to speak against it and if I can 02:03:31.920 --> 02:03:34.840 get you to deny it, I will lose some money 02:03:34.840 --> 02:03:38.520 So because sometimes it's more important the overall goal 02:03:38.520 --> 02:03:40.039 than to just make money 02:03:40.039 --> 02:03:43.829 And the point is over here at Clear Creek and I'm really 02:03:43.829 --> 02:03:46.659 sad that we don't have a big blow up of it 02:03:47.319 --> 02:03:51.680 But it's a over you go up Mingo when you turn up Collins 02:03:53.720 --> 02:03:56.359 Can we get a big map of that corner? 02:04:02.479 --> 02:04:04.479 There we go, okay 02:04:05.159 --> 02:04:06.399 well 02:04:06.399 --> 02:04:09.029 First off, let me point out that these maps that 02:04:09.029 --> 02:04:12.130 engineering is showing you in engineering. I'm not knocking 02:04:12.130 --> 02:04:12.319 them 02:04:12.319 --> 02:04:15.039 They do a good job of doing things on paper 02:04:15.520 --> 02:04:18.520 They don't go out in the field and see the real world 02:04:18.520 --> 02:04:19.159 sometimes 02:04:19.920 --> 02:04:23.199 First off they're showing a lot of this land out here as 02:04:23.199 --> 02:04:26.659 city. Well, maybe it might be in the future 02:04:26.659 --> 02:04:29.680 But right now it's actually counting. It's not city limits 02:04:29.960 --> 02:04:33.619 So you you get a skewed idea you think it you're looking at 02:04:33.619 --> 02:04:35.960 something that's in the city, but it's not it's actually in 02:04:35.960 --> 02:04:36.300 County 02:04:36.960 --> 02:04:38.680 and 02:04:38.680 --> 02:04:43.069 Where Clear Creek comes in here? There are three big ran 02:04:43.069 --> 02:04:44.260 ches out there 02:04:45.680 --> 02:04:47.680 and 02:04:47.760 --> 02:04:50.680 Some names are so big they don't have to worry about money. 02:04:50.680 --> 02:04:51.600 So I'm not I'm not 02:04:52.479 --> 02:04:54.640 Convinced they're too eager to sell out 02:04:56.000 --> 02:04:58.369 But you'll notice that this if you look at the history of 02:04:58.369 --> 02:05:01.560 Clear Creek it if I remember right the year was 02:05:02.119 --> 02:05:05.859 1956 when the agreements were made on that it's 2900 acres 02:05:05.859 --> 02:05:06.119 and 02:05:06.680 --> 02:05:10.039 It took a restoration effort to restore Clear Creek 02:05:10.760 --> 02:05:14.359 And and yet now engineering wants to put a six lane arter 02:05:14.359 --> 02:05:14.720 ial 02:05:15.600 --> 02:05:19.279 Right beside Clear Creek now. I actually happen to own 10 02:05:19.279 --> 02:05:21.960 acres that back up to Clear Creek and 02:05:22.920 --> 02:05:26.409 That six lane road would actually connect right on to the 02:05:26.409 --> 02:05:28.000 edge of my property 02:05:28.000 --> 02:05:30.949 And I would end up with 10 acres of frontage on a six lane 02:05:30.949 --> 02:05:31.520 arterial 02:05:31.520 --> 02:05:34.680 well, yes, that would be worth a lot of money to me, but 02:05:36.000 --> 02:05:40.560 We started a process 60 years ago to preserve this area and 02:05:41.560 --> 02:05:45.760 I think it's more important to stick with our original plan 02:05:48.920 --> 02:05:52.239 We do need a road going north and south but it can go over 02:05:52.239 --> 02:05:55.199 to Cooper Creek it can go further west 02:05:56.000 --> 02:05:59.539 Why do we want to put a six lane right up against a nature 02:05:59.539 --> 02:06:02.319 preserve that we've worked 60 years? 02:06:03.159 --> 02:06:05.420 to rebuild and preserve 02:06:06.920 --> 02:06:08.159 also 02:06:08.159 --> 02:06:11.079 The nature preserve is all in the floodplain. It's owned by 02:06:11.079 --> 02:06:13.600 Corps of Engineers. It will never be developed 02:06:13.720 --> 02:06:15.720 So we're going to put all this infrastructure 02:06:16.239 --> 02:06:19.310 Right over against something where there is no possibility 02:06:19.310 --> 02:06:22.670 for development on that side of the property on that side 02:06:22.670 --> 02:06:23.479 of this road 02:06:24.399 --> 02:06:25.479 so 02:06:25.479 --> 02:06:28.279 To me it makes sense to move it to the west where we can 02:06:28.279 --> 02:06:31.199 develop on both sides get higher taxes on both sides 02:06:31.279 --> 02:06:32.560 and 02:06:32.560 --> 02:06:34.560 if you've been out there 02:06:34.720 --> 02:06:37.079 you know I I had I 02:06:37.880 --> 02:06:41.039 Had does in my front yard that 02:06:41.640 --> 02:06:44.539 Nestled in the bushes and slept out there all the time. I 02:06:44.539 --> 02:06:47.079 got deer. I got turkeys. I got all kinds of stuff and 02:06:48.159 --> 02:06:50.159 It just it just doesn't make sense 02:06:55.720 --> 02:06:57.439 There any questions for Commissioner bit or ex-commissioner 02:06:57.439 --> 02:06:59.840 Bentley, excuse me 02:07:03.680 --> 02:07:07.500 Okay, thank you for your comments we have this is a public 02:07:07.500 --> 02:07:10.600 hearing also have a card from mr. Leo Miller 02:07:17.520 --> 02:07:21.739 Leo Miller 3091 Swisher Road and really have more questions 02:07:21.739 --> 02:07:23.779 and it's not for y'all, but if you can steer me in a 02:07:23.779 --> 02:07:24.159 direction 02:07:25.439 --> 02:07:28.039 Some of these roadways and the mobility plan 02:07:28.760 --> 02:07:32.109 Don't have the right away existing some of it the right 02:07:32.109 --> 02:07:35.390 away is being granted as developments are happening where 02:07:35.390 --> 02:07:36.399 the developer 02:07:36.399 --> 02:07:38.399 Just is not required 02:07:38.760 --> 02:07:41.680 To develop that road. It's obviously going to be a city 02:07:42.399 --> 02:07:44.399 funded thing who 02:07:44.640 --> 02:07:47.710 Dedicates determines that I think you mentioned bonds those 02:07:47.710 --> 02:07:48.340 type of things 02:07:48.340 --> 02:07:50.720 How do I go find out and push to get certain things on 02:07:50.720 --> 02:07:53.319 certain bond issues? Who would I talk to about that? 02:07:54.079 --> 02:07:56.479 See if staff can answer that question for you 02:07:58.359 --> 02:08:02.659 I would actually refer to PS Aurora. He's with he's sitting 02:08:02.659 --> 02:08:05.119 right behind you actually and please exchange 02:08:05.119 --> 02:08:09.420 I know PS so I'll ask him what I saw here. I thought I 02:08:09.420 --> 02:08:11.239 would just take a couple minutes of his time, but 02:08:12.439 --> 02:08:16.680 other question on some of the level of services maps 02:08:17.520 --> 02:08:21.090 There are some yellows and reds and various good and bad 02:08:21.090 --> 02:08:23.100 grades, but there's very 02:08:24.239 --> 02:08:27.729 Specific corner or area that's being affected by a school 02:08:27.729 --> 02:08:29.500 and the decision to drop off 02:08:30.800 --> 02:08:33.979 Children in the back with automobiles where was designed 02:08:33.979 --> 02:08:37.159 for buses where there's infrastructure in the front to go 02:08:37.159 --> 02:08:37.399 there 02:08:37.399 --> 02:08:40.800 What I need to do is get the city the police and the DISD 02:08:40.800 --> 02:08:43.640 all on the same page because they're all pointing to each 02:08:43.640 --> 02:08:43.840 other 02:08:43.840 --> 02:08:45.840 Saying it's somebody else's issue 02:08:47.399 --> 02:08:51.220 Who I think we talked about the traffic engineer for the 02:08:51.220 --> 02:08:53.399 city's perspective who is that? 02:08:54.680 --> 02:08:56.680 Turn that over said I 02:08:57.760 --> 02:08:59.779 Don't know the name of the traffic engineer. Yeah, who 02:08:59.779 --> 02:09:01.760 would I call to start with I mean? 02:09:01.760 --> 02:09:05.109 I will take your information and I will get back with you 02:09:05.109 --> 02:09:08.489 with the right point of contact for all the information 02:09:08.489 --> 02:09:09.439 that you need 02:09:09.439 --> 02:09:11.869 All my information is on the card superb. I will get with 02:09:11.869 --> 02:09:14.029 you tomorrow and we will get you in point in the right 02:09:14.029 --> 02:09:14.640 direction 02:09:16.760 --> 02:09:19.539 Commissioner Taylor, thank you chair. Could you could you 02:09:19.539 --> 02:09:22.119 specify what neighborhood? 02:09:23.600 --> 02:09:26.399 I'm really not in a neighborhood. It's villages of Carmel 02:09:26.399 --> 02:09:27.319 preserves 02:09:28.000 --> 02:09:31.600 Pecan Creek Elementary school sits between Lakeview and 02:09:32.319 --> 02:09:36.000 old part of Swisher with Edwards East and West and 02:09:37.920 --> 02:09:43.359 Pokers page pokers page new post of all funnels into the 02:09:43.359 --> 02:09:44.000 backside of 02:09:45.199 --> 02:09:48.310 Pecan Creek Elementary, which is clearly marked service 02:09:48.310 --> 02:09:49.560 vehicles buses only 02:09:50.159 --> 02:09:53.729 all the signage is the infrastructure the drive etc are all 02:09:53.729 --> 02:09:57.920 built for service vehicles and buses the front of 02:09:58.439 --> 02:10:01.699 Pecan Creek Elementary school faces Lakeview which has two 02:10:01.699 --> 02:10:03.640 lanes north two lanes south 02:10:04.239 --> 02:10:06.819 Easily during certain amount of times during the day that 02:10:06.819 --> 02:10:09.840 one lane can be dedicated for a lot of students 02:10:09.840 --> 02:10:11.680 And I get that there's a lot of students 02:10:11.680 --> 02:10:15.359 I've talked to the principal and they're doing the best 02:10:15.359 --> 02:10:17.359 they can but for about an hour 02:10:18.239 --> 02:10:20.779 In the morning about an hour in the afternoon every day 02:10:20.779 --> 02:10:24.119 that intersection is locked down somebody has a fire 02:10:24.119 --> 02:10:25.199 somebody has a heart attack 02:10:26.279 --> 02:10:28.640 Police need to get through there. It's not going to happen 02:10:29.520 --> 02:10:31.520 So thank you 02:10:32.079 --> 02:10:34.079 Thanks 02:10:40.479 --> 02:10:40.720 This is a public hearing is there anyone else that would 02:10:40.720 --> 02:10:44.640 like to come and speak on this item 02:10:48.960 --> 02:10:53.239 Seeing none we do have a couple of emails 02:10:54.560 --> 02:10:57.199 And I think I'll just acknowledge the two people who have 02:10:57.199 --> 02:11:00.829 sent those to identify them we have one email for the 02:11:00.829 --> 02:11:01.840 record from 02:11:04.079 --> 02:11:07.869 Brian Bentley and then we have a second email from Patty 02:11:07.869 --> 02:11:11.760 Hayworth and I'll include those as 02:11:12.479 --> 02:11:14.479 part of our public record 02:11:16.159 --> 02:11:18.789 Anyone else that would like to speak on this item before 02:11:18.789 --> 02:11:19.119 close 02:11:21.119 --> 02:11:23.760 Seeing none I will close the public hearing on this item 02:11:24.960 --> 02:11:28.699 And I'll open the floor to commissioners for discussion or 02:11:28.699 --> 02:11:29.520 emotion 02:11:37.039 --> 02:11:41.300 Commissioner Beck I'm gonna step out of the way here and I 02:11:41.300 --> 02:11:43.439 'm gonna make a motion we table this item 02:11:44.479 --> 02:11:47.479 Had a lot of explaining things explaining the workshop and 02:11:47.479 --> 02:11:49.920 this is not a knock against the staff at all 02:11:49.920 --> 02:11:53.039 I think I do a great job. I love this plan in general 02:11:53.840 --> 02:11:57.350 But as I say the the devil's in the details and I guess 02:11:57.350 --> 02:12:00.479 being new is part of what I'm running up against here 02:12:00.479 --> 02:12:02.850 I just feel like we need just a little more. I need a 02:12:02.850 --> 02:12:05.199 little more time to look at this thing a little bit more 02:12:05.199 --> 02:12:05.840 thoroughly 02:12:05.840 --> 02:12:07.840 So I motion that we table that 02:12:08.960 --> 02:12:12.210 The chair would ask you to clarify your motion. Do you have 02:12:12.210 --> 02:12:14.720 a date that you would like to table this to? 02:12:17.039 --> 02:12:20.640 If a month isn't too long I'd like to push it up a month 02:12:23.199 --> 02:12:25.920 Not this not the next PNZ meeting but the meeting after 02:12:25.920 --> 02:12:26.479 that 02:12:30.720 --> 02:12:37.430 That's our second meeting in November we'll get the date 02:12:37.430 --> 02:12:39.359 certain on that 02:12:44.239 --> 02:12:46.239 Commissioner hudspeth 02:12:46.800 --> 02:12:50.149 I would second that motion to give me an opportunity to 02:12:50.149 --> 02:12:51.279 review the 02:12:52.399 --> 02:12:54.720 Some information we discussed in the work session 02:12:57.520 --> 02:13:00.829 November 18th, just for the record that meeting will be 02:13:00.829 --> 02:13:02.159 november the 18th 02:13:05.279 --> 02:13:07.279 We have a first and a second 02:13:09.760 --> 02:13:12.159 And we have some additional discussion 02:13:12.800 --> 02:13:17.149 Commissioner Dudowitz, just clarification that motion is to 02:13:17.149 --> 02:13:18.560 have a public hearing 02:13:20.079 --> 02:13:22.319 Or to have another work session for 02:13:23.359 --> 02:13:26.810 Commissioners I wasn't I didn't get the this would be a 02:13:26.810 --> 02:13:29.039 post-public for the public here. You mean clear 02:13:30.159 --> 02:13:33.500 well, and it would hope it'd be discussed or in the work 02:13:33.500 --> 02:13:34.159 session to 02:13:35.359 --> 02:13:38.979 Followed by the public session. Okay, then I'd like to I 02:13:38.979 --> 02:13:40.319 don't know if there's any 02:13:41.439 --> 02:13:45.399 Formal process here to amend his motion that we have a kept 02:13:45.399 --> 02:13:46.479 a commission's 02:13:47.119 --> 02:13:49.529 Work session dedicated to this for our new commissioners 02:13:49.529 --> 02:13:51.520 and for any other further questions 02:13:52.479 --> 02:13:54.479 prior to the the public meeting 02:13:55.680 --> 02:13:58.119 Question for staff will we have time to be able to do that 02:13:58.119 --> 02:14:00.159 at our next meeting or would it need to be the second 02:14:00.159 --> 02:14:00.560 meeting? 02:14:00.640 --> 02:14:02.800 And then we will be taking this action on 02:14:04.159 --> 02:14:06.159 If we can meet earlier 02:14:06.640 --> 02:14:09.090 Prior to five we can actually start addressing some of the 02:14:09.090 --> 02:14:10.960 questions that the commission has 02:14:12.239 --> 02:14:14.289 I would have to clarify with ps in his schedule to make 02:14:14.289 --> 02:14:15.680 sure they can attend 02:14:16.319 --> 02:14:17.920 Okay 02:14:17.920 --> 02:14:19.920 My concern if I may commissioner dunham 02:14:20.239 --> 02:14:22.359 If we do it during a normal work session if we would have 02:14:22.359 --> 02:14:22.960 enough time 02:14:23.439 --> 02:14:27.079 So we may need to do a separate one or start an earlier 02:14:27.079 --> 02:14:29.439 meeting for I wouldn't be opposed to that 02:14:30.319 --> 02:14:33.390 Okay, um just to throw this out and staff can give 02:14:33.390 --> 02:14:34.239 direction on this 02:14:34.960 --> 02:14:37.439 We've had in the past some special call meetings 02:14:38.159 --> 02:14:42.119 To deal with issues in the past and it may be appropriate 02:14:42.119 --> 02:14:44.159 if we are tight on time 02:14:44.159 --> 02:14:46.159 And this is a something that needs to move forward 02:14:46.720 --> 02:14:49.130 That is that something that we should consider to have a 02:14:49.130 --> 02:14:50.880 special call for this? Absolutely 02:14:50.960 --> 02:14:53.840 We can start coordinating with yourselves on availability 02:14:53.840 --> 02:14:56.869 and set up some a special called meeting or a few special 02:14:56.869 --> 02:14:58.560 called meetings to address this 02:14:59.119 --> 02:15:00.640 Okay, and if 02:15:00.640 --> 02:15:04.489 Let me chime in on that as well. Thank you chair. I would 02:15:04.489 --> 02:15:06.640 actually prefer if we could maybe meet 02:15:07.439 --> 02:15:09.810 Instead of meeting earlier because those of us who have 02:15:09.810 --> 02:15:12.979 jobs and kids it's difficult sometimes to get here in by 02:15:12.979 --> 02:15:13.279 five 02:15:13.920 --> 02:15:16.300 Um, so I know in the past what we've done is we've met 02:15:16.300 --> 02:15:18.079 since we meet every other wednesday 02:15:18.159 --> 02:15:20.159 We just we've got wednesdays kind of blocked out 02:15:20.560 --> 02:15:23.609 Perhaps we could meet, you know at five or five thirty on 02:15:23.609 --> 02:15:26.399 another wednesday in between sessions 02:15:26.560 --> 02:15:29.149 If we wanted to workshop this more I would I would request 02:15:29.149 --> 02:15:32.000 that as a working mom that be helpful. Thank you 02:15:34.479 --> 02:15:36.869 Would it be appropriate staff to go ahead and try to set a 02:15:36.869 --> 02:15:39.600 date or I don't know what sort of public notice 02:15:39.600 --> 02:15:41.600 We need to give for that meeting 02:15:41.600 --> 02:15:43.680 This will not be a public hearing the public hearing from 02:15:43.680 --> 02:15:46.640 what i'm understanding tentatively has get placed on the 02:15:46.640 --> 02:15:46.960 tape 02:15:47.520 --> 02:15:50.239 As a motion is for november 18th prior to that 02:15:50.960 --> 02:15:53.640 If someone can pull a calendar we can actually go ahead and 02:15:53.640 --> 02:15:55.600 select the wednesday dates now 02:15:57.600 --> 02:16:00.390 Is this something we will need to specify in this motion or 02:16:00.390 --> 02:16:01.520 can we just leave it as a 02:16:01.840 --> 02:16:05.140 As a special call meeting date to be determined for mr. Dud 02:16:05.140 --> 02:16:07.359 owitz's november 11th would be the day 02:16:09.520 --> 02:16:11.970 Would be a special called session and it would just require 02:16:11.970 --> 02:16:14.640 the regular 72 hour agenda posting 02:16:15.920 --> 02:16:17.689 It wouldn't push the public hearing back because the public 02:16:17.689 --> 02:16:20.590 hearing would be on the on the 18th. So this would be the 02:16:20.590 --> 02:16:21.039 week prior 02:16:24.880 --> 02:16:27.949 And and i'm sorry just to clarify is there a an amendment 02:16:27.949 --> 02:16:30.239 to the motion on the record I was going to ask 02:16:31.279 --> 02:16:34.360 What was your amendment amendment is to have a a work 02:16:34.360 --> 02:16:35.920 session prior to the 02:16:36.399 --> 02:16:38.770 The public meetings that we could spend time discussing 02:16:38.770 --> 02:16:40.799 among ourselves and you want to give us that date 02:16:41.360 --> 02:16:43.360 November the 11th is that the date? 02:16:43.760 --> 02:16:46.010 Whatever date is I understand they have to look at staff 02:16:46.010 --> 02:16:47.540 has to look at options 02:16:52.479 --> 02:16:55.620 I'll leave it up to staff to identify a date of a wednesday 02:16:55.620 --> 02:16:56.559 in between 02:16:57.120 --> 02:16:58.159 Okay 02:16:58.159 --> 02:17:02.079 We can either do um the amendment or commissioner beck may 02:17:02.079 --> 02:17:03.520 want to amend his motion to 02:17:04.559 --> 02:17:06.559 Have that special call on the 11th 02:17:09.680 --> 02:17:12.750 Okay, guide me here and then I I agree with what 02:17:12.750 --> 02:17:15.569 commissioner dotter was saying if we could have that time 02:17:15.569 --> 02:17:16.159 set aside 02:17:16.319 --> 02:17:18.159 Or we could discuss it 02:17:18.159 --> 02:17:21.459 What I need to do to do that to amend my own so you modify 02:17:21.459 --> 02:17:24.319 your motion. Okay, then i'm accommodate mr 02:17:24.319 --> 02:17:26.559 Dudowitz's, okay, I move to uh 02:17:27.200 --> 02:17:31.000 Modify my motion to uh, it doesn't require separate motion. 02:17:31.000 --> 02:17:33.430 You just make the statement that you've modified it. Okay, 02:17:33.430 --> 02:17:33.920 I do 02:17:34.799 --> 02:17:36.799 and the second 02:17:37.920 --> 02:17:39.200 I think 02:17:39.200 --> 02:17:42.079 Commissioner husband, do you agree with that? I do 02:17:43.040 --> 02:17:44.719 Okay 02:17:44.719 --> 02:17:47.510 With with all of that discussion. Do we need a restatement 02:17:47.510 --> 02:17:50.190 of the motion over there? Well, let's we're not quite done 02:17:50.190 --> 02:17:51.440 with amendments. Okay 02:17:52.719 --> 02:17:54.239 commissioner taylor 02:17:54.239 --> 02:17:56.239 Thank you chair 02:17:56.719 --> 02:17:58.079 In order to 02:17:58.079 --> 02:18:01.120 Get some work done before we get to our meetings on this 02:18:01.840 --> 02:18:04.000 I would like to bring up a few issues that we've identified 02:18:04.000 --> 02:18:05.520 in work session in the public hearing 02:18:06.239 --> 02:18:09.659 and these can either be comments or if we want to amend 02:18:09.659 --> 02:18:10.239 them into 02:18:10.959 --> 02:18:12.959 The motion to postpone either way 02:18:14.479 --> 02:18:17.600 So I think context sensitive design has has been mentioned 02:18:17.600 --> 02:18:20.059 by staff and I think that's the key that we're looking at 02:18:20.059 --> 02:18:20.319 here 02:18:20.639 --> 02:18:22.319 So we want to make sure that 02:18:22.319 --> 02:18:24.319 the local contexts are 02:18:24.319 --> 02:18:26.840 Are appropriate for the roadways that are being planned and 02:18:26.840 --> 02:18:28.239 we've identified 02:18:29.040 --> 02:18:30.399 post oak 02:18:30.399 --> 02:18:34.120 Near the clear creek natural heritage center possibly real 02:18:34.120 --> 02:18:35.440 igning that to cooper creek 02:18:36.079 --> 02:18:38.079 Or some similar realignment 02:18:39.440 --> 02:18:41.920 There are also around hickory creek on the south side of 02:18:41.920 --> 02:18:42.319 town 02:18:43.280 --> 02:18:44.399 we have 02:18:44.399 --> 02:18:48.170 Hickory creek forms another large barrier and there are not 02:18:48.170 --> 02:18:48.799 parallel 02:18:50.239 --> 02:18:52.959 Arterials or large collectors along hickory creek. There 02:18:52.959 --> 02:18:54.319 are short segments 02:18:55.200 --> 02:18:58.399 East west that that kind of stair step down 02:18:58.959 --> 02:19:01.590 So i'd ask that we look at and there might not be any 02:19:01.590 --> 02:19:03.920 feasible options, but we look at options 02:19:04.559 --> 02:19:07.920 for an arterial or arterials that parallel the north and 02:19:07.920 --> 02:19:11.440 south sides of the hickory creek floodplain area 02:19:13.440 --> 02:19:16.719 It's also the map that is in the the existing 02:19:18.159 --> 02:19:20.159 mobility plan map 02:19:20.159 --> 02:19:21.260 shows 02:19:21.260 --> 02:19:22.639 airports 02:19:22.639 --> 02:19:24.639 rail floodplains 02:19:24.639 --> 02:19:27.860 And other major barriers and that helps give us context 02:19:27.860 --> 02:19:29.840 helps us understand the context 02:19:30.319 --> 02:19:32.700 So we go why isn't there a road there? Oh, well, there's a 02:19:32.700 --> 02:19:34.000 half mile wide floodplain there 02:19:34.399 --> 02:19:37.680 Or there's a railroad track or there's an airport. So in 02:19:37.680 --> 02:19:39.200 our next presentation 02:19:39.840 --> 02:19:43.170 I would like them the future mobility plan map to include 02:19:43.170 --> 02:19:46.079 major limiting factors like rail 02:19:46.540 --> 02:19:48.540 airport floodplain 02:19:48.799 --> 02:19:50.799 large esas 02:19:50.879 --> 02:19:51.680 and 02:19:51.680 --> 02:19:53.920 an additional map or overlay 02:19:54.959 --> 02:19:57.750 Showing the future land use map. I think that would be good 02:19:57.750 --> 02:19:59.280 for context for all of us 02:20:00.000 --> 02:20:01.440 we can see 02:20:01.440 --> 02:20:04.899 What we expect like we can in our heads understand somewhat 02:20:04.899 --> 02:20:05.600 the demand 02:20:06.399 --> 02:20:09.180 That is that the model is showing by saying that's rural. 02:20:09.180 --> 02:20:10.399 That's commercial 02:20:10.959 --> 02:20:12.959 There's an airport there things like that 02:20:13.920 --> 02:20:16.159 And then specifically two more hot spots 02:20:17.520 --> 02:20:20.399 the area around pecan creek elementary that does have 02:20:21.600 --> 02:20:24.579 A connectivity issue and if there is any way to alleviate 02:20:24.579 --> 02:20:27.819 that there might not be because of the built structure out 02:20:27.819 --> 02:20:28.159 there 02:20:28.719 --> 02:20:31.319 But i'd like to at least have that addressed as to what 02:20:31.319 --> 02:20:33.520 could be done or why it can't be done 02:20:34.479 --> 02:20:37.680 And then also around sam houston elementary. I don't 02:20:37.680 --> 02:20:39.920 believe the model shows that as a 02:20:40.799 --> 02:20:42.799 red level of service 02:20:43.520 --> 02:20:45.520 But it it is 02:20:45.680 --> 02:20:47.920 Just because of the local traffic patterns 02:20:48.559 --> 02:20:51.530 So that would be teesley in the miller miller area. It 02:20:51.530 --> 02:20:53.920 shows red or does it show red there? Okay 02:20:54.559 --> 02:20:57.520 So those are those are all the things I would like to 02:20:58.399 --> 02:21:00.719 To have at our special call meeting 02:21:03.280 --> 02:21:05.850 I think the chair feels like those can just be addressed in 02:21:05.850 --> 02:21:08.399 that special call rather than needing to be added to unless 02:21:08.399 --> 02:21:08.799 you feel 02:21:08.799 --> 02:21:10.799 Like you would like to okay 02:21:13.840 --> 02:21:15.840 Anybody else 02:21:18.959 --> 02:21:20.100 Do we need to have the motion restated is there by clear on 02:21:20.100 --> 02:21:23.989 what we're doing with the tabling and then a special 02:21:23.989 --> 02:21:25.600 meeting, okay? 02:21:26.239 --> 02:21:28.659 Seeing none have a first and a second and we'll call for a 02:21:28.659 --> 02:21:29.700 vote on the board 02:21:42.319 --> 02:21:44.319 Chair 02:21:44.479 --> 02:21:47.479 Did did we establish the date for that yet was it no did I 02:21:47.479 --> 02:21:51.520 hear november the 8th 18th 18th 18th for the 02:21:52.399 --> 02:21:54.239 for the special 02:21:54.239 --> 02:21:56.239 Special session the 11th. Yeah 02:21:57.200 --> 02:22:00.389 And that was at five o'clock, I assume I think we'll get 02:22:00.389 --> 02:22:01.920 back with a time on those 02:22:03.600 --> 02:22:07.819 Thank you, thank you any other clarifications before I call 02:22:07.819 --> 02:22:08.319 the vote 02:22:10.399 --> 02:22:14.420 Uh, I believe we have already voted on that that item and 02:22:14.420 --> 02:22:16.719 it passed seven zero 02:22:23.120 --> 02:22:26.079 That moves us to our final item this evening, um 02:22:29.200 --> 02:22:32.559 Well, actually we have one other we're going to do a review 02:22:32.559 --> 02:22:34.659 of the project matrix 02:22:35.760 --> 02:22:38.350 And that that is not going to be a little bit here. No, 02:22:38.350 --> 02:22:39.760 that is not I I it's 02:22:40.239 --> 02:22:41.200 basically 02:22:41.200 --> 02:22:44.870 Uh, we attached this through our system for you to for your 02:22:44.870 --> 02:22:45.520 reference 02:22:46.639 --> 02:22:48.299 So should you have any questions or concerns in your 02:22:48.299 --> 02:22:51.260 concluding items that you wanted to bring up related to 02:22:51.260 --> 02:22:52.399 this we'd be happy to 02:22:54.399 --> 02:22:57.120 Are there any questions on the project matrix 02:22:59.600 --> 02:23:03.139 Commissioner brigle not a question, but just a comment. I 02:23:03.139 --> 02:23:05.760 just I find this very helpful. I really yeah 02:23:07.600 --> 02:23:09.629 Now I find this very helpful and I like seeing all the 02:23:09.629 --> 02:23:11.840 things at the bottom say completed completed 02:23:11.920 --> 02:23:14.860 It's really nice to see where we're at and what we've done 02:23:14.860 --> 02:23:16.479 and where we're going. So thank you 02:23:21.600 --> 02:23:23.840 Any other comments or questions on the matrix 02:23:26.879 --> 02:23:30.579 Okay, that will move us on to our concluding items 02:23:36.319 --> 02:23:38.159 Commissioner hudspeth 02:23:38.159 --> 02:23:40.159 Thank you chair 02:23:40.239 --> 02:23:43.280 So I would like to request 02:23:44.319 --> 02:23:46.319 information from staff 02:23:46.540 --> 02:23:48.540 specifically 02:23:49.360 --> 02:23:55.120 Regarding hoa's for our next session and i'd like to 02:23:57.920 --> 02:23:59.920 Get an understanding of 02:24:00.940 --> 02:24:03.040 liabilities to the city for costs 02:24:04.000 --> 02:24:06.000 in advance of if 02:24:06.239 --> 02:24:08.239 something were to 02:24:09.040 --> 02:24:11.440 Happen with the hoa that they can't fulfill their agreement 02:24:11.600 --> 02:24:14.799 So I I just want to discuss that I guess and so 02:24:15.200 --> 02:24:17.120 I don't know if that's a legal discussion or whatever 02:24:17.120 --> 02:24:19.200 during our next but but I just want to discuss 02:24:20.000 --> 02:24:22.559 Or get some information on how that process 02:24:24.159 --> 02:24:27.360 Goes forward and how we receive actual real dollars 02:24:28.319 --> 02:24:30.319 If that need arises 02:24:31.040 --> 02:24:33.520 I'd be happy to speak with you about that 02:24:34.159 --> 02:24:36.719 One-on-one, I don't know if the entire commission 02:24:37.440 --> 02:24:39.819 Wants to discuss any portion of that some of that is 02:24:39.819 --> 02:24:41.360 attorney client privilege 02:24:42.079 --> 02:24:44.079 That would be part of a closed session 02:24:45.280 --> 02:24:48.309 Some of it could be open session, but um, it's really up to 02:24:48.309 --> 02:24:50.819 the board whether or not they want that to hear that as a 02:24:50.819 --> 02:24:51.200 whole 02:24:52.319 --> 02:24:54.399 But i'll be happy to get with you and discuss it with you 02:24:54.399 --> 02:24:55.040 one on one. Sure 02:24:55.840 --> 02:24:57.649 Chair just wants to poll the commission. Is there anyone 02:24:57.649 --> 02:25:00.180 else that would like to participate in that discussion? 02:25:04.159 --> 02:25:07.440 If not, I the chair would would ask commissioner husbeth 02:25:07.440 --> 02:25:10.110 get with legal and have your questions addressed in that 02:25:10.110 --> 02:25:11.600 matter if we need to bring it forward 02:25:12.159 --> 02:25:14.559 Uh, then we will certainly put it on the matrix and do that 02:25:14.559 --> 02:25:16.559 . Thanks. Thank you, sir. Thank you 02:25:19.520 --> 02:25:23.059 Any other comments or items for our concluding items? 02:25:28.000 --> 02:25:32.299 Seeing none i'm going to close our meeting at 7 45. Thank 02:25:32.299 --> 02:25:32.500 you 02:25:34.159 --> 02:25:45.139 [ Silence ]