1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,520 Planning and zoning Commission work session together 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,689 We have this meeting has been duly noticed and we have a qu 3 00:00:08,689 --> 00:00:10,279 orum present 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,869 Our first item of business is going to be to receive a 5 00:00:14,869 --> 00:00:15,800 report on 6 00:00:16,519 --> 00:00:20,239 PZ 15 - point zero to five 7 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:23,960 Clarification of agenda items 8 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,339 Let me back up we're going to do the clarification of 9 00:00:29,339 --> 00:00:32,159 agenda items and then we'll go to our work session reports 10 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:35,039 Thank you 11 00:00:35,039 --> 00:00:37,820 Person if I may take the liberty and opportunity to 12 00:00:37,820 --> 00:00:41,270 introduce two new team members to our development services 13 00:00:41,270 --> 00:00:42,780 planning department specifically 14 00:00:43,079 --> 00:00:45,960 We have made several enhancements to our team as you are 15 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,119 all aware. We have created the long-range planning 16 00:00:48,119 --> 00:00:48,880 component 17 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:51,789 That's officially underway behind some of the commissioners 18 00:00:51,789 --> 00:00:53,119 in front of some of the commissioners 19 00:00:53,119 --> 00:00:55,710 We have Ron Mungita who has assumed the role of long-range 20 00:00:55,710 --> 00:00:56,920 planning administrator 21 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,750 So that we can move forward with implementing the elements 22 00:00:59,750 --> 00:01:02,640 of the long-range plan that we had have discussed several 23 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:02,920 times 24 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,920 I would also like to introduce in the back. We have Shand 25 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,040 rian Jarvis. She is our planning supervisor 26 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,329 She will be working on development review and we also have 27 00:01:11,329 --> 00:01:13,939 Beverly's end who is our DRC administrator 28 00:01:14,239 --> 00:01:16,609 Please do welcome her and feel free to call them and ask 29 00:01:16,609 --> 00:01:19,079 them any questions that you have as we move forward 30 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,040 Welcome 31 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:25,019 Thank you. That being said we'll go ahead and discuss the 32 00:01:25,019 --> 00:01:27,319 first few items on our workshop 33 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:30,090 Which are the final which the first one is the final plat 34 00:01:30,090 --> 00:01:32,659 for epic addition. I'm going to ask Julie Wyatt to 35 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:35,579 Go ahead and present that and go over the elements 36 00:01:35,579 --> 00:01:37,000 associated with that plat 37 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:43,920 We have two plats going forward for epic addition the 38 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:48,930 preliminary plat and the final plat are both coming forward 39 00:01:48,930 --> 00:01:50,540 to you tonight 40 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,040 So if you recall 41 00:02:08,879 --> 00:02:08,879 If you recall a few months ago you had an SUP come before 42 00:02:08,879 --> 00:02:13,840 you for an apartment complex 43 00:02:14,599 --> 00:02:18,599 That is located in about the unicorn Lake area. So this is 44 00:02:18,599 --> 00:02:20,439 just they they received their SUP 45 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,789 From City Council. So they're just coming forward with 46 00:02:23,789 --> 00:02:24,360 their plat 47 00:02:24,879 --> 00:02:27,520 They do have some access easements that allow them to 48 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,879 access the property for both 35 and also down to Wind River 49 00:02:31,879 --> 00:02:35,280 And then they've also provided access through the property 50 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,189 So I'll answer any questions and both the final plat and 51 00:02:38,189 --> 00:02:41,080 the preliminary plat are in conformance with each other 52 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,639 So if you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them 53 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,520 Good 54 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,520 Commissioner back 55 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,159 I would just choose we don't know what use is going to be 56 00:02:55,159 --> 00:02:55,919 used for it 57 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,900 It will be multi it will actually be mixed use and there 58 00:02:58,900 --> 00:02:59,599 will be some 59 00:03:00,159 --> 00:03:03,150 Office and restaurant use but the primary use on the on the 60 00:03:03,150 --> 00:03:05,080 property will be multifamily 61 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,530 Okay, so maybe two-story apartment. I believe it's three 62 00:03:09,530 --> 00:03:10,520 story apartments 63 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,789 There was a site plan associated with the SUP that was 64 00:03:13,789 --> 00:03:15,120 approved and so this 65 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,879 This layout is in conformance with that site plan 66 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,520 That was approved 67 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:24,360 Commissioner Briggle, thank you chair 68 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,680 Julia when we had approved this a few months ago 69 00:03:28,759 --> 00:03:32,689 there was a suggestion to create a connecting road for any 70 00:03:32,689 --> 00:03:34,120 future development to 71 00:03:34,599 --> 00:03:37,800 The left side, I guess of this flat if I'm looking at them 72 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,240 Was it it was going to be towards I can't 73 00:03:48,159 --> 00:03:50,159 So I was just I'm 74 00:03:50,199 --> 00:03:52,580 There I know there are no developments to the West 75 00:03:52,580 --> 00:03:56,240 currently, but that was for any future connectivity 76 00:03:57,159 --> 00:04:00,419 Why is that not shown on this plat and I would have to go 77 00:04:00,419 --> 00:04:02,000 back and look at it 78 00:04:03,159 --> 00:04:05,949 Listen to the the meetings or read or read the minutes from 79 00:04:05,949 --> 00:04:06,919 that meeting 80 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,479 We typically don't require the connectivity to the adjacent 81 00:04:10,479 --> 00:04:13,500 property because it could develop in a commercial 82 00:04:13,919 --> 00:04:16,300 You know with a commercial use that you wouldn't want 83 00:04:16,300 --> 00:04:19,439 necessarily want that connectivity with the apartments. So 84 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,740 So I would have to go back but no this plat doesn't show 85 00:04:22,740 --> 00:04:25,259 that connectivity and if you wanted to 86 00:04:26,759 --> 00:04:29,319 Wait to approve it we could certainly go back and look at 87 00:04:29,319 --> 00:04:29,480 that 88 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,000 I'm wondering if we can maybe review exactly what it was 89 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:33,839 that we had approved that evening because I 90 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,279 Remember because I was the one that made the suggestion 91 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,899 that this was going to be like a mixed-use kind of area 92 00:04:40,519 --> 00:04:42,360 they wanted 93 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,439 But a lot of the the driving was going to be done within 94 00:04:45,439 --> 00:04:47,000 this particular property 95 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:51,120 And I had suggested that there'd be some connectivity to 96 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,439 the west side for any people that might want to perhaps 97 00:04:54,439 --> 00:04:54,879 walk 98 00:04:54,879 --> 00:04:58,360 I remember walking and yeah, there could there there could 99 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,709 be sidewalks associated with the site plan that aren't 100 00:05:00,709 --> 00:05:01,959 necessarily in an easement 101 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,540 Okay, and actually now that I'm saying this out loud. I 102 00:05:04,540 --> 00:05:05,319 remember it was a sidewalk 103 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,550 So with sidewalks be that would that would be later on in 104 00:05:11,550 --> 00:05:12,879 the site plan and not in them 105 00:05:12,879 --> 00:05:15,470 It would be a part of the building permit. Okay. I thank 106 00:05:15,470 --> 00:05:18,160 you. Sorry. No, that's okay back. All right. Thanks 107 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,610 Commissioner dead awaits. I remember part of that 108 00:05:20,610 --> 00:05:22,879 discussion the sidewalks were to access 109 00:05:23,319 --> 00:05:27,399 south into the Centermark area parking lots into the 110 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,040 adjacent I 111 00:05:30,199 --> 00:05:32,040 Think there's BJ's some restaurants 112 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:32,279 Yes, sir 113 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,170 The west side and the issue that they came up from the 114 00:05:35,170 --> 00:05:38,120 property owner to the west was that's a professional 115 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,319 building and their professional 116 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,680 They own that property and they would be opposed to having 117 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:44,120 across 118 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,959 Traffic going in through their parking lot back into Wind 119 00:05:47,959 --> 00:05:51,540 River. I don't know the outcome of that, but I remember 120 00:05:51,540 --> 00:05:52,079 that part 121 00:05:52,079 --> 00:05:54,579 Yeah, thanks for jogging my memory. I just remember that 122 00:05:54,579 --> 00:05:56,500 there was some form of connectivity to the west 123 00:05:56,500 --> 00:05:58,740 So I remember sidewalks now that you mentioned it 124 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,860 Chair's gonna chime in as I recall to your point on the 125 00:06:03,860 --> 00:06:05,079 property to the west 126 00:06:05,639 --> 00:06:09,250 The business park that would be to the west of this and 127 00:06:09,250 --> 00:06:09,800 south 128 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:14,399 Yes, there's a street stub as I recall back in behind that 129 00:06:14,399 --> 00:06:16,839 that accesses that property to the west 130 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,519 It's not well, this will be emergency access 131 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,959 Main access farther west farther. Okay. Yes 132 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,959 There was a back in behind Alan Nelson's and Pete McCleskey 133 00:06:27,959 --> 00:06:28,639 's office 134 00:06:28,639 --> 00:06:31,120 There's a street stub that accesses that property to the 135 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:31,420 west 136 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,899 If I recall commissioner Duddle and so that means that they 137 00:06:35,899 --> 00:06:37,879 would eventually put us in there 138 00:06:37,879 --> 00:06:40,879 They could they could they could attach to it. Okay, and a 139 00:06:40,879 --> 00:06:42,339 property owner there would 140 00:06:44,439 --> 00:06:47,959 Negate it or prove it or what I believe there were existing 141 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:50,980 Access easements like all of these have shared access eas 142 00:06:50,980 --> 00:06:53,920 ements, right? So the owners of the office park 143 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,879 I believe have some shared access easements. So that's 144 00:06:56,879 --> 00:06:57,279 already 145 00:06:58,879 --> 00:07:01,029 If the easements are there and it's plotted it's fine, but 146 00:07:01,029 --> 00:07:04,240 it doesn't but to someone's point it's not noted 147 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,279 Any other questions on this item? 148 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,240 Thank you, Julie, thank you 149 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:14,939 Judy's gonna go ahead and present the next plant and 150 00:07:14,939 --> 00:07:18,399 preliminary plot for Brentwood Place Edition 151 00:07:28,639 --> 00:07:30,639 All right 152 00:07:33,199 --> 00:07:37,279 So this plot is located off of 377 north of Riney Road 153 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,259 It is a townhome development and they are plotting 154 00:07:41,259 --> 00:07:44,850 I believe it is a hundred and seventy four residential lots 155 00:07:44,850 --> 00:07:46,920 and open in seven open space lots 156 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,600 It will not be a gated community 157 00:07:52,959 --> 00:07:55,839 Commissioner back are these what we'd call zero lot lines 158 00:07:55,839 --> 00:07:57,040 in other words 159 00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,839 ones property ends 160 00:07:59,839 --> 00:08:01,839 There's no there's nothing in between 161 00:08:02,399 --> 00:08:05,209 They'll be townhomes and in the didn't development code you 162 00:08:05,209 --> 00:08:05,920 can have eight 163 00:08:06,519 --> 00:08:10,000 townhomes that are attached within a unit so 164 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,480 so the the townhomes will 165 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,720 The eight units will be a part of one building 166 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,389 So I don't know if it would be considered necessary a zero 167 00:08:19,389 --> 00:08:21,600 lot line, but it would be a townhome type of element 168 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:29,920 Commissioner Taylor, thank you chair 169 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,519 we rarely get townhomes in Denton and I 170 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,029 Think this is an interesting neighborhood to place them, 171 00:08:38,029 --> 00:08:40,639 but I do have just some general questions regarding them 172 00:08:40,639 --> 00:08:41,679 sure the 173 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,940 What are our rules on parking access like parking are they 174 00:08:44,940 --> 00:08:48,759 are these going to have be required to have garages and? 175 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,289 Would that be in the front or the back or it's it has an 176 00:08:52,289 --> 00:08:55,639 alley so they will be rear access the 177 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,600 residential site design guidelines 178 00:09:00,399 --> 00:09:03,169 Require that the garage only take up 40% of the front 179 00:09:03,169 --> 00:09:06,039 facade of a residential building 180 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,799 So the garages will actually be in the back and it will be 181 00:09:08,799 --> 00:09:11,559 accessed through alley with your with a car 182 00:09:11,759 --> 00:09:15,580 So in that 40% is that 40% of the ground level or is that 183 00:09:15,580 --> 00:09:18,539 40% of the if you have a four-story building for example 184 00:09:18,539 --> 00:09:22,679 Could you have a one-story continuous garage and you less 185 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:24,440 than for Alec Manali if I'm not mistaken 186 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,409 It is the ground level so you would have to have that 187 00:09:26,409 --> 00:09:28,919 relief in your front elevation without taking into account 188 00:09:28,919 --> 00:09:30,039 the entire mass 189 00:09:30,039 --> 00:09:32,679 Of that front elevation so it would be a first story front 190 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:33,159 elevation 191 00:09:33,519 --> 00:09:36,309 And I understand so this one is going to have alley access 192 00:09:36,309 --> 00:09:40,500 and garages in the back in another townhome development 193 00:09:40,500 --> 00:09:43,269 Would there be a requirement that there be garages in each 194 00:09:43,269 --> 00:09:43,559 unit? 195 00:09:45,159 --> 00:09:48,419 We I'm going to have to double check that code we don't 196 00:09:48,419 --> 00:09:49,720 require garages 197 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:53,289 We do require two parking spaces per single-family resident 198 00:09:53,289 --> 00:09:56,080 or single-family residential dwelling 199 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,309 So if they don't have a garage they would have to have at 200 00:09:59,309 --> 00:10:02,649 least a parking pad that could accommodate to my right on 201 00:10:02,649 --> 00:10:03,080 that mental 202 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:07,600 - cars so I'm still a garage and in that case it would be 203 00:10:08,039 --> 00:10:10,039 Possible that those would be in the front. Yes 204 00:10:10,759 --> 00:10:12,759 Thank you 205 00:10:13,639 --> 00:10:15,639 Any other questions on this item 206 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,200 Thank You Julie 207 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:22,679 That every moving on to our next final plan for a mission 208 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,240 Street edition. I'm going to ask Ross Culbertson to go 209 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:26,980 ahead and 210 00:10:29,639 --> 00:10:31,639 Present this 211 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:59,320 . Julie. Can I have your assistance real quick? 212 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:21,720 So close 213 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,360 Simply this is a 214 00:11:31,639 --> 00:11:36,240 commercial final plats for a single tenant office use on 215 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:37,440 one lot 216 00:11:38,399 --> 00:11:42,289 The plaque forms to the DDC and staff recommends approval 217 00:11:42,289 --> 00:11:43,539 the use is 218 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:48,399 Tied to an individual owner who wants to build his own 219 00:11:48,399 --> 00:11:51,080 office building on one lot. So with that 220 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,320 If you have any questions, I'll stand for you 221 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,440 Questions on this side 222 00:12:01,399 --> 00:12:03,399 Thanks, sir, thank you 223 00:12:04,759 --> 00:12:08,799 Thank you, Ross, Judy's gonna come back and present final 224 00:12:08,799 --> 00:12:10,600 plot for North Park phase 2a I 225 00:12:13,279 --> 00:12:16,240 Don't have this one on the screen there was a change made 226 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:16,580 to it 227 00:12:16,580 --> 00:12:19,570 So it was actually at each of your spots except for you Man 228 00:12:19,570 --> 00:12:21,519 al. I apologize. I didn't bring enough coffee 229 00:12:22,399 --> 00:12:24,700 There was one plat note that was removed 230 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,309 It was it was left there in error as a residual plat note 231 00:12:28,309 --> 00:12:30,159 from the preliminary plat 232 00:12:30,159 --> 00:12:33,840 So plat note 6 has been removed, but this is the first 233 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:35,720 phase for Old North Park 234 00:12:36,399 --> 00:12:38,279 phase 2 and 235 00:12:38,279 --> 00:12:41,110 If you recall this was a zoning case that came before you 236 00:12:41,110 --> 00:12:43,960 about this time last year and so they're they're beginning 237 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:44,720 and it will be 238 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,259 Single-family homes and I'll answer any questions 239 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,720 Questions on this item I 240 00:12:53,639 --> 00:12:57,509 Have one and I'm trying to find that's the joy of 241 00:12:57,509 --> 00:13:00,039 electronics not being a mark on it. I 242 00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:03,279 Made a note 243 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,570 Somewhere I think it was in one of the details. Maybe it 244 00:13:06,570 --> 00:13:07,440 was on the plat 245 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,360 about paving materials 246 00:13:12,039 --> 00:13:15,240 Do we have any idea what's to go in here on these two lots 247 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:16,960 9 and 28? 248 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,120 temporary it will be temporary and it will be paving will 249 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:23,679 be sufficient to 250 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,720 accommodate the weight of a fire truck or 251 00:13:27,639 --> 00:13:29,639 emergency vehicles those will actually 252 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,419 Be accessed for a temporary basis until phase 2 comes about 253 00:13:33,419 --> 00:13:36,960 and a replat comes back before you and those will be then 254 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,490 Transitioned back to a residential lot. These are just here 255 00:13:40,490 --> 00:13:41,480 for fire access 256 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:44,370 I understand what they're for are they gravel or are they 257 00:13:44,370 --> 00:13:47,559 concrete? They'll be concrete. Okay, so it's a concrete 258 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,169 Temporary street that they're going to put in and they'll 259 00:13:50,169 --> 00:13:53,440 remove off of these lots when they do the next phase. Okay. 260 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:54,120 Thank you. Sure 261 00:13:58,159 --> 00:13:59,600 Anybody else 262 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,120 Commissioner Hudson 263 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,769 Thank you. I have a I guess it falls under legal question 264 00:14:04,769 --> 00:14:08,679 and it's going to relate to some other topics. What is 265 00:14:09,279 --> 00:14:13,960 What is the relief for the city with regards to HOA's? 266 00:14:14,159 --> 00:14:17,840 So and it for example, for instance this says easement 267 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,879 shall be maintained by the HOA 268 00:14:19,879 --> 00:14:24,100 Is there a deposit they put down or is there and so what is 269 00:14:24,100 --> 00:14:26,879 the enforcement capability of the city? 270 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,139 So you're shifting that responsibility, but then what is 271 00:14:30,139 --> 00:14:32,159 the enforcement mechanism for that? 272 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,220 There is an enforcement mechanism. There's a private right 273 00:14:36,220 --> 00:14:38,059 of action that we could do to 274 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,440 enforce equitable 275 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,929 Covenants on other land, especially if there's an HOA, but 276 00:14:45,929 --> 00:14:48,639 we don't necessarily exercise it ever 277 00:14:49,759 --> 00:14:52,139 Generally, they're gonna have to go by the restrictions or 278 00:14:52,139 --> 00:14:55,240 the HOA can enforce it through fines and foreclosure 279 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:58,799 but in some instances we do have 280 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,679 property where the HOA has failed to do that or the HOA 281 00:15:02,679 --> 00:15:05,000 becomes abandoned or disbanded and 282 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,320 then sometimes we often do have to step in and 283 00:15:09,559 --> 00:15:13,009 Have some sort of code action or try to enforce it 284 00:15:13,009 --> 00:15:13,879 privately 285 00:15:14,559 --> 00:15:16,559 in a public manner 286 00:15:17,279 --> 00:15:22,720 Follow-up question. So what is what is so getting to it? So 287 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,600 monetarily what is the what is the end result? 288 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,399 So if I if I take their land then there's their fire sale 289 00:15:29,399 --> 00:15:32,240 How do you how do we get compensated and only ask because 290 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,759 oftentimes I'll see that the city will say 291 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,580 We don't have it in the budget to send a crew out or works. 292 00:15:38,580 --> 00:15:39,019 We're 293 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,720 taking on an additional expense and 294 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,080 So their land doesn't satisfy that expense 295 00:15:48,279 --> 00:15:51,629 Usually you have to do the labor in advance or the city 296 00:15:51,629 --> 00:15:55,080 will have to be on the hook for the labor so like if it's 297 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:55,440 something 298 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,320 Where we have to get an outside person to come in and take 299 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,679 things off the land or remove it like rubbish and even of a 300 00:16:01,679 --> 00:16:01,960 fire 301 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:03,799 If they have to demolish a structure 302 00:16:03,799 --> 00:16:06,820 Then we're gonna have to go ahead and pay for that and then 303 00:16:06,820 --> 00:16:09,279 file a lien against the property any work that we do 304 00:16:09,279 --> 00:16:10,600 It's gonna be a labor lien 305 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,629 we can also get civil penalties in that matter and that'll 306 00:16:13,629 --> 00:16:17,519 be reduced to a judicial lien on the property and then in 307 00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:21,029 Some events we can foreclose on it as long as it's not like 308 00:16:21,029 --> 00:16:21,159 a 309 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,850 Homesteaded property we can foreclose and get our costs 310 00:16:24,850 --> 00:16:27,480 back based on the value of the property 311 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:29,960 Which is the best we can do? 312 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,960 Okay 313 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,409 Did I answer your question? Yes, but I'm thinking there's a 314 00:16:35,409 --> 00:16:37,039 I don't know what the form is 315 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,700 So I don't want to go outside the bounds. So I'll bring it 316 00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:41,820 up this evening 317 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,690 And during that they're in a closing session in that way I 318 00:16:44,690 --> 00:16:44,919 can 319 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,440 Have a thought 320 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:49,720 Thank you any other questions on this item? 321 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,820 Thank you Julie Ross is going to present the final plot for 322 00:16:54,820 --> 00:16:56,879 Terry tree Harry's tree house edition 323 00:16:58,519 --> 00:17:02,159 The evening this is a final plan for Terry's tree house we 324 00:17:03,039 --> 00:17:05,460 Have worked with the applicants through the plan 325 00:17:05,460 --> 00:17:09,380 development a living process to bring forth the use on the 326 00:17:09,380 --> 00:17:10,079 property 327 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,400 This is the final plat that 328 00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:14,839 records easements 329 00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:18,250 Specific to that use it's in conformance with the DIN 330 00:17:18,250 --> 00:17:21,619 development code and all city departments and so staffs 331 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,160 recommending approval on the final plan 332 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:30,920 Any questions on this item 333 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,200 I've got a comment 334 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,599 I think when this came before us this is the parcel that's 335 00:17:40,599 --> 00:17:41,299 back behind 336 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,990 7-eleven that's going to be the daycare center. We had a 337 00:17:44,990 --> 00:17:46,140 lot of discussion about 338 00:17:47,079 --> 00:17:49,930 I believe there were a couple options that were given to 339 00:17:49,930 --> 00:17:51,700 them correct either a curb 340 00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:54,880 Is that addressed in this it's addressed in the building 341 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,960 permits with the site plan and it affects a 342 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,039 Landscape area curbed area on this side of the fire so it's 343 00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:06,839 not on this but it's in correct. Okay. Thank you 344 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,240 We'll go ahead and close out the plots first we have a 345 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,240 final replant for our shrimp edition 346 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,250 And I'm going to ask Julie to go ahead and present that 347 00:18:16,250 --> 00:18:17,039 before we dive into 348 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,109 All right, since this is a since this is a replat it does 349 00:18:29,109 --> 00:18:31,680 have to have a public hearing per the Texas local 350 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:32,119 government code 351 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,000 So we'll be going over this in the public hearing but this 352 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,019 is a replat of the 353 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,079 Ashram edition a lot one block a that 354 00:18:41,519 --> 00:18:44,680 They're taking in some unplatted property in order to 355 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:47,880 construct a shade structure so they can have yoga classes 356 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:48,440 outside 357 00:18:51,799 --> 00:18:55,509 Any questions on this item this is not enough in our deck 358 00:18:55,509 --> 00:18:58,039 it is it should be but it's a public hearing 359 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,240 That's why it's in it's further on in your packet. Okay 360 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,250 But I wanted to close out the plot since we were talking 361 00:19:04,250 --> 00:19:04,759 about them 362 00:19:06,039 --> 00:19:08,039 Any questions? 363 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,359 Thank you, Julie 364 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:14,759 Just for the 365 00:19:14,759 --> 00:19:18,759 Commission's edification we do have an item that has been 366 00:19:18,759 --> 00:19:21,250 continued to November 4th meeting and that's the public 367 00:19:21,250 --> 00:19:21,519 hearing 368 00:19:21,839 --> 00:19:24,210 To address procedural and government standards for the 369 00:19:24,210 --> 00:19:27,400 razor ranch development overlay district. So that is being 370 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,190 postponed and with that the next item that we have before 371 00:19:32,190 --> 00:19:33,279 us is to discuss 372 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:36,279 the 373 00:19:36,279 --> 00:19:38,279 Dent City of Denton's mobility plan 374 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,440 I believe PS is here to make that presentation or his 375 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:43,880 representative 376 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:48,119 Okay 377 00:19:53,279 --> 00:19:55,279 Do you 378 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,779 If someone would come to the podium so that if the 379 00:19:57,779 --> 00:20:00,200 Commission has any questions we can address those 380 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:06,960 I 381 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,680 Good afternoon Commission Jeff Whitaker 382 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,230 The presentation we plan to give in a public hearing is 383 00:20:15,230 --> 00:20:18,039 very similar to the presentation that you saw at the last 384 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,039 September 16th meeting I believe so we weren't going to re- 385 00:20:21,039 --> 00:20:23,890 give the presentation to you guys again now, but if there's 386 00:20:23,890 --> 00:20:24,720 any questions 387 00:20:25,559 --> 00:20:27,480 from the Commission we would 388 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,960 Like to hear those before I recognize anybody 389 00:20:30,759 --> 00:20:34,759 We've had a couple of emails today. Would it be appropriate 390 00:20:34,759 --> 00:20:35,680 staff to 391 00:20:36,319 --> 00:20:38,690 Talk about those at this time or wait till our public 392 00:20:38,690 --> 00:20:39,640 hearing tonight 393 00:20:40,519 --> 00:20:43,539 Since this is a work session that addresses these items. It 394 00:20:43,539 --> 00:20:46,140 is appropriate to bring these up. Okay, great 395 00:20:46,140 --> 00:20:48,140 I think Commissioner Beck 396 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,480 I guess my 397 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,000 one question I have anyway is are we 398 00:20:54,759 --> 00:20:58,140 approving this is going forward after tonight if we approve 399 00:20:58,140 --> 00:20:59,019 this I mean because 400 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,920 As these two lit well at least one letter raised a concern 401 00:21:03,519 --> 00:21:06,039 One makes me look a little deeper. So are we in effect 402 00:21:06,039 --> 00:21:08,519 going to approve this and it's going to move forward or and 403 00:21:08,519 --> 00:21:09,640 if it moves forward 404 00:21:11,319 --> 00:21:14,250 Do we have other opportunities to say wait a minute, you 405 00:21:14,250 --> 00:21:14,400 know 406 00:21:18,519 --> 00:21:20,890 I think the short answer we're looking to move forward to a 407 00:21:20,890 --> 00:21:21,799 council public hearing 408 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,059 If there are comments that are received now between now and 409 00:21:24,059 --> 00:21:26,180 the council public hearing we can entertain and address 410 00:21:26,180 --> 00:21:27,240 those so there's an issue 411 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,240 There that people are concerned about 412 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,299 And we got those emails and we have looked at them and we 413 00:21:32,299 --> 00:21:35,680 can we can discuss those in this work session as well 414 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,039 Okay, so we're not locking into something here that's going 415 00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:39,359 forward 416 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,130 We're not going to change any UI shape or form. Yes, we are 417 00:21:42,130 --> 00:21:42,559 . Yeah 418 00:21:42,799 --> 00:21:46,000 It's actually on the agenda for tonight under item 5a is a 419 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,460 public hearing where you can take action on it tonight. 420 00:21:49,460 --> 00:21:49,880 Okay 421 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,329 If you feel like what the information you have is 422 00:21:53,329 --> 00:21:56,410 inadequate or enough then you you can you know exercise 423 00:21:56,410 --> 00:21:58,319 your right to postpone it but 424 00:22:00,599 --> 00:22:01,839 Sure 425 00:22:01,839 --> 00:22:03,319 Commissioner Dudowitz 426 00:22:03,319 --> 00:22:06,839 I'm with Larry. I'm not comfortable yet to make and this is 427 00:22:06,839 --> 00:22:09,440 just me speaking, but we do have three new 428 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,809 Commissioners here that and I've been through a couple of 429 00:22:12,809 --> 00:22:15,920 these presentations and I'm still kind of confused and 430 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,640 It's very it's been very vague and I see drawings 431 00:22:20,519 --> 00:22:22,279 streets that are I 432 00:22:22,279 --> 00:22:25,480 Can't tell from this the detail and I'm very uncomfortable 433 00:22:26,079 --> 00:22:29,339 To take a vote to pass of the City Council that I'm still 434 00:22:29,339 --> 00:22:31,799 not sure what we're proving 435 00:22:31,799 --> 00:22:32,799 I haven't asked that question 436 00:22:32,799 --> 00:22:35,299 What is our role and what are we doing and we're supposed 437 00:22:35,299 --> 00:22:37,920 to be approving something that I'm not sure what I'm appro 438 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:38,279 ving 439 00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:43,029 And so I'm going to suggest that we either get in get more 440 00:22:43,029 --> 00:22:45,880 detail and or have other meetings on this 441 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,880 But I'm not comfortable 442 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,880 With the scope of this and the vagueness of it all it's and 443 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:52,640 we got you know 444 00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:55,579 Two emails today with detail that I'm wondering where they 445 00:22:55,579 --> 00:22:58,440 got that detail from because I haven't been exposed to it 446 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:03,329 And is a you know as a as a commissioner here, where do I 447 00:23:03,329 --> 00:23:04,079 have to go to get it? 448 00:23:04,079 --> 00:23:07,019 It seems that we're responsible for looking and searching 449 00:23:07,019 --> 00:23:08,799 for this data and it's not there 450 00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:11,900 I mean I got a map that's similar to that and I spent three 451 00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:15,200 weeks looking at it and I defy anybody to tell me 452 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:19,579 What this means and we got some nice colored pictures and 453 00:23:19,579 --> 00:23:22,200 we got some lines half the streets aren't labeled 454 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,339 And I don't know if what a second arterial is and what's 455 00:23:26,339 --> 00:23:28,680 that design what's a primary 456 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,089 It's it's for me. It's just still still too vague and too 457 00:23:33,089 --> 00:23:34,319 conceptual to 458 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,849 Suggest there should be a vote to take the city council. 459 00:23:37,849 --> 00:23:40,119 Okay. I appreciate your comments 460 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,720 I think I'd ask staff to maybe give us some 461 00:23:44,839 --> 00:23:47,559 Refresher on what the mobility plan is that it's not set in 462 00:23:47,559 --> 00:23:50,519 stone that it is a more of a concept 463 00:23:50,799 --> 00:23:53,220 Plan and I'd like to ask them to clarify some of those and 464 00:23:53,220 --> 00:23:55,079 maybe shed some light on some of the questions 465 00:23:55,079 --> 00:23:57,690 That will be part of the presentation today when the 466 00:23:57,690 --> 00:24:00,680 presentation is done. I'm sorry. I'm not 467 00:24:01,759 --> 00:24:04,130 Feeling that well, I've been out of country and so I put 468 00:24:04,130 --> 00:24:06,799 that to Jeff to do the presentation today 469 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,839 He will go through the presentation. It is still a 470 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,400 And what you see on the map 471 00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:18,079 Is going to be a schematic in some ways 472 00:24:18,519 --> 00:24:22,289 It is going to be that way. It's not possible to put all 473 00:24:22,289 --> 00:24:24,680 the detail on a street on 474 00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:28,680 That scale a map for individual streets. There's no way to 475 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:29,200 do that 476 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,599 What you have is the base map that is already been there 477 00:24:33,599 --> 00:24:34,599 for 478 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:37,200 15 years 479 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,200 What we are doing is adding to it 480 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,160 which is the 481 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,759 Hills of Denton and some of the other MPCs and then also 482 00:24:44,759 --> 00:24:47,160 some of the other areas which have been 483 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:48,759 annexed into the city 484 00:24:48,759 --> 00:24:52,339 We have added some streets in those areas. So what we are 485 00:24:52,339 --> 00:24:55,319 doing is just addition of some streets and the 486 00:24:56,039 --> 00:24:58,480 MPCs that have already been approved and the road layout 487 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,480 has already been approved that has been added to the 488 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:02,119 schematic 489 00:25:03,079 --> 00:25:05,079 primary arterials secondary arterials 490 00:25:05,759 --> 00:25:08,829 Collector streets we have cross sections on those in our 491 00:25:08,829 --> 00:25:12,599 criteria manual as to what each one of those 492 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,000 look like 493 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,000 six lanes four lanes 494 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,160 Two lanes with turn lanes, etc. They're in the criterion of 495 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:22,599 the details of those 496 00:25:23,319 --> 00:25:25,319 Are those schematics? 497 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,220 In set in concrete or they just okay. Here's what we're 498 00:25:28,220 --> 00:25:29,759 thinking about. No, sir 499 00:25:30,079 --> 00:25:32,559 Those are already in the criterion manual. We are not 500 00:25:32,559 --> 00:25:34,039 making any changes to those 501 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,369 They're already there. They've been there since the 2000. 502 00:25:38,369 --> 00:25:38,740 Okay 503 00:25:39,799 --> 00:25:42,799 Follow up please because I remember within that 504 00:25:42,799 --> 00:25:45,319 conversation that one of the 505 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,289 commissioners suggested that there's a median in there, but 506 00:25:49,289 --> 00:25:51,160 it's as wide as a as a 507 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,519 as a 508 00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:56,039 24 foot wide right away, but is standard and 509 00:25:57,799 --> 00:26:01,730 That's a standard I'll let Jeff talk about that and as to 510 00:26:01,730 --> 00:26:03,000 why the medians are why 511 00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:07,869 There's two things one is the cross section the design menu 512 00:26:07,869 --> 00:26:08,640 . We're not looking to change 513 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,140 We're looking at if you will for this for what you're 514 00:26:11,140 --> 00:26:14,200 proving today is we're looking at lines on a map to obtain 515 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:15,359 right away to build 516 00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,460 Roadways a cross section design change would be a different 517 00:26:18,460 --> 00:26:19,279 process than this 518 00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:21,890 But the reason of 24 foot is there and that's probably on 519 00:26:21,890 --> 00:26:24,559 the primary material is to accommodate two left turn lanes 520 00:26:24,559 --> 00:26:25,599 for dual left turn lanes 521 00:26:25,599 --> 00:26:27,599 So there is a standard behind that 522 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,759 But that's not something we're looking at changing the 523 00:26:29,759 --> 00:26:32,319 standard with this with this motion today 524 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,700 Another question on this map that we have. How do we 525 00:26:36,700 --> 00:26:39,720 distinguish what was proved prior and what's new? 526 00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:44,460 On the map anything that's highlighted in yellow or pink is 527 00:26:44,460 --> 00:26:44,799 new 528 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:49,250 It's been either updated. It's updated in yellow or pink is 529 00:26:49,250 --> 00:26:49,599 new 530 00:26:50,759 --> 00:26:52,759 Okay, I believe it 531 00:26:53,599 --> 00:26:57,769 Yellow and what please pink pink. Okay. I'm looking here. 532 00:26:57,769 --> 00:27:00,279 So we got a lot of yellow and pink 533 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,200 But again, you know, we're looking at a street that comes 534 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,140 into a street without a name 535 00:27:06,140 --> 00:27:09,279 I mean, I like to know what those names are so I could kind 536 00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:11,599 of look at a visual or map to see it makes 537 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,970 Make sense. So this yes, and we do have that in one 538 00:27:14,970 --> 00:27:17,529 presentation. We had a table that outlined all the new 539 00:27:17,529 --> 00:27:19,519 streets and upgrades and the realignments 540 00:27:19,519 --> 00:27:22,470 I'm suggesting all the streets that touch these these new 541 00:27:22,470 --> 00:27:25,079 updates is not are not listed on here nor in there 542 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,210 Okay, we we have that we have some maps that show all the 543 00:27:29,210 --> 00:27:32,319 alignments and maps that we've previously gone through 544 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,400 You have that for this evening we do we have rollout plots 545 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,150 and all the information that's been previously presented 546 00:27:40,150 --> 00:27:40,920 the previous meetings 547 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,920 We do have all that information and there's tables 548 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,319 available for all the the details that you want that are 549 00:27:45,319 --> 00:27:46,359 attached in the previous 550 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,480 presentation 551 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,480 Before I recognize them I 552 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,019 Think I heard at the beginning of this you said you weren't 553 00:27:54,019 --> 00:27:55,599 prepared to make a presentation 554 00:27:55,599 --> 00:27:57,920 You were just going to wait and do that in public 555 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,059 I'd just like to kind of open it up here for some feedback 556 00:28:01,059 --> 00:28:04,319 from the commissioners. Would you all like to try to open? 557 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,220 The presentation and talk about possibly the very final map 558 00:28:08,220 --> 00:28:11,460 to propose mobility plan that's going to show some news and 559 00:28:11,460 --> 00:28:12,279 maybe address some 560 00:28:12,279 --> 00:28:14,460 of these questions or if we're 561 00:28:15,079 --> 00:28:17,619 Uncomfortable enough this evening that we don't think we're 562 00:28:17,619 --> 00:28:18,240 going to take action 563 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,109 There's no need to spend in the time to do that. Can I get 564 00:28:21,109 --> 00:28:22,400 some some feedback? 565 00:28:23,839 --> 00:28:28,190 Just for clarification pretty much what the chairman said 566 00:28:28,190 --> 00:28:29,880 is this more a concept? 567 00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:32,599 It's not chipped in stone. This is 568 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,490 General planning principles on thoroughfare planning is 569 00:28:35,490 --> 00:28:36,839 that alignment can move? 570 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,789 Generally the rule of thumb is you're connecting point a to 571 00:28:39,789 --> 00:28:42,990 point B and the exact alignment will take bonnie bray for 572 00:28:42,990 --> 00:28:43,440 example 573 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,250 That's a currently plan that's being designed and going 574 00:28:46,250 --> 00:28:46,799 through a schematic 575 00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:49,579 And the idea was they were going to get for point a point B 576 00:28:49,579 --> 00:28:51,559 when the engineering the 30% engineering was done 577 00:28:51,559 --> 00:28:53,690 They actually figured how to do it. The thoroughfare plan 578 00:28:53,690 --> 00:28:54,920 is basically to identify 579 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,339 We're getting from this point to this point and generally 580 00:28:58,339 --> 00:28:59,000 rule thumb 581 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,859 You don't modify your thoroughfare plan if you're changing 582 00:29:00,859 --> 00:29:01,660 within a thousand feet 583 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,400 That's a general rule thumb so that alignment can move a 584 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:05,680 thousand feet 585 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,619 We try to match it as close as we thought it could be at 586 00:29:07,619 --> 00:29:09,200 this time, but that doesn't mean it's not 587 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,180 Yeah, to add to that so you actually there are routing 588 00:29:12,180 --> 00:29:14,799 studies actually done when it what is designed 589 00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:18,180 So at that time when the full engineering is done 590 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,079 The engineer would actually go out take a look like all the 591 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,880 Properties that you have to cross what is the best way to 592 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:27,519 cross them? 593 00:29:27,799 --> 00:29:30,910 What is what property are actually available that can buy 594 00:29:30,910 --> 00:29:33,720 the right away, so this is not a fixed alignment 595 00:29:34,279 --> 00:29:36,880 That will happen actually when the design is done 596 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,599 Then it gets fixed then they go out they engage the right 597 00:29:40,599 --> 00:29:41,200 away people 598 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,390 They go out and talk to the property owners, and that's how 599 00:29:44,390 --> 00:29:45,960 the alignment gets fixed at that time 600 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,720 Okay, so again when we vote tonight. We're just saying okay 601 00:29:50,039 --> 00:29:52,599 Let's move forward with it, but we're not saying these are 602 00:29:52,599 --> 00:29:53,759 the roads that are going to be cut 603 00:29:53,759 --> 00:29:55,759 This is what we're going to do definitely 604 00:29:55,799 --> 00:29:57,799 Yes, this is just a 605 00:29:58,319 --> 00:30:00,319 representation of how 606 00:30:00,359 --> 00:30:03,039 Overall the schematic looks like okay 607 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,960 Let me specifically the one concern this guy wrote in about 608 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,599 you know is what kind of raised my eyebrows and to the 609 00:30:09,599 --> 00:30:10,400 whole thing 610 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,400 But I mean if there is 611 00:30:12,599 --> 00:30:14,400 some 612 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,190 resentment by the public or a group of people cutting a six 613 00:30:18,190 --> 00:30:20,759 -lane road through a wildlife preserve 614 00:30:20,759 --> 00:30:24,680 I mean is there a mechanism in place where we could you 615 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:25,019 know 616 00:30:26,319 --> 00:30:29,720 This or come up with something else I think we have a 617 00:30:30,599 --> 00:30:33,079 Actual slide that Jeff will be able to show you it is 618 00:30:33,079 --> 00:30:36,319 really not cutting through a wildlife preserve 619 00:30:36,319 --> 00:30:39,759 There's actually a road already out there at this time and 620 00:30:39,759 --> 00:30:42,519 what we are doing is we are using the same road 621 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,640 It's just going to be expanded a little bit. The road is 622 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:46,519 already there 623 00:30:49,079 --> 00:30:51,450 It's going to be a primary arterial right yes, but it is 624 00:30:51,450 --> 00:30:55,279 not really going into any of the ESA areas 625 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,000 Okay 626 00:31:01,119 --> 00:31:03,259 Just real quickly in your statement here you say some 627 00:31:03,259 --> 00:31:06,880 streets that are primary arterials 628 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,599 Supposedly downgraded to second arterials 629 00:31:10,279 --> 00:31:12,279 Also some streets are supposed to be downgraded 630 00:31:14,119 --> 00:31:16,640 Then you're going from secondary to primary 631 00:31:16,839 --> 00:31:19,329 Can you name what are some of those streets that are going 632 00:31:19,329 --> 00:31:20,799 to? Commissioner Beck? 633 00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:24,480 Can I may I interrupt first and thank you chair and make a 634 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:25,960 suggestion perhaps? 635 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,740 We're kind of jumping all around here, and we have an hour 636 00:31:28,740 --> 00:31:29,920 before our 637 00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:34,849 Regular session we don't have a very heavy agenda once we 638 00:31:34,849 --> 00:31:36,119 start and so I'm wondering maybe 639 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,480 To clarify and stay on track and ask these questions 640 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,299 Maybe in a more organized manner if we could see the 641 00:31:43,299 --> 00:31:46,319 presentation and then and these are all very good questions 642 00:31:46,319 --> 00:31:48,839 But if we could lay it all out see the presentation and 643 00:31:48,839 --> 00:31:51,569 then ask the questions when they come up perhaps it would 644 00:31:51,569 --> 00:31:52,079 kind of help 645 00:31:52,079 --> 00:31:54,450 Clarify and answer other questions about people might be 646 00:31:54,450 --> 00:31:56,279 holding on to can I would that be okay? 647 00:31:56,279 --> 00:31:58,940 That's a great idea. I think before we move on that I want 648 00:31:58,940 --> 00:31:59,559 to ask staff a 649 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,240 Clarification or procedure question we've got two other 650 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:04,920 items on our work session 651 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,410 Yes, and maybe before you know I open the floor to get some 652 00:32:08,410 --> 00:32:09,640 feedback before we 653 00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:12,240 Get a presentation 654 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,869 Maybe it would be appropriate for us to at least cover the 655 00:32:14,869 --> 00:32:17,400 two other items we have on our work session and get those 656 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,420 Out of the way, and then whatever time we have left we can 657 00:32:20,420 --> 00:32:21,039 devote to 658 00:32:21,799 --> 00:32:23,799 Trying to address this mobility 659 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,319 Some these mobility questions that be appropriate staff. I 660 00:32:27,319 --> 00:32:30,720 would suggest that I didn't mean to cut you off 661 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,710 Well no, I appreciate what you say because that's really 662 00:32:34,710 --> 00:32:36,920 what I was going right we need more time 663 00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:40,359 To that that we had 664 00:32:40,559 --> 00:32:43,650 presentation to the mobility committee and to the council 665 00:32:43,650 --> 00:32:43,960 both 666 00:32:44,759 --> 00:32:48,339 As we brought this to you we had a buy-in from the mobility 667 00:32:48,339 --> 00:32:50,640 committee as well as from the council 668 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,480 To move forward that the way 669 00:32:54,079 --> 00:32:57,950 The overall mobility plan is now proposed with the changes 670 00:32:57,950 --> 00:32:58,920 so 671 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,200 Just want to flag you that you know we already have done 672 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:02,920 that 673 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,400 So this is the next step here to go to the public hearing 674 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,240 then we want more public hearing that with the council 675 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:09,559 level 676 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,440 I think we're gonna at this point 677 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:16,470 We're gonna table this discussion and we're gonna move to 678 00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:18,440 these two and when we call you back up 679 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,440 I think we would like to have you be prepared to make your 680 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:22,319 presentation 681 00:33:22,319 --> 00:33:25,039 I think a lot of the questions that are being asked are 682 00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:27,839 going to be addressed with the proposed mobility plan 683 00:33:27,839 --> 00:33:30,660 So maybe if we can pull that up when you come up. I think a 684 00:33:30,660 --> 00:33:33,400 lot of these questions may be able to be addressed so 685 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,869 With that just as a matter of clarification with the record 686 00:33:36,869 --> 00:33:38,539 we are not tabling the item 687 00:33:38,539 --> 00:33:41,799 We're postponing it to the end of the work session. Thank 688 00:33:41,799 --> 00:33:43,279 you for the clarification 689 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:46,759 Thank you, mr. Chair 690 00:33:46,759 --> 00:33:49,799 I'm going to ask Julie Wyatt to come forward and make a 691 00:33:49,799 --> 00:33:50,119 presentation 692 00:33:50,839 --> 00:33:53,210 Regarding a definition and use for assembly halls to the 693 00:33:53,210 --> 00:33:54,519 Denton Development Code 694 00:34:07,599 --> 00:34:09,599 Been trying to get sick so I might be off 695 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,880 I'm Julie Wyatt associate planner with the city of Denton 696 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,800 and I am presenting 697 00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:19,400 Some information on assembly halls to you. It's a proposed 698 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,840 addition to the Denton Development Code 699 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,619 So in the past year or so staff has received some inquiries 700 00:34:27,619 --> 00:34:30,360 that regarding the ability to develop 701 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,139 Facilities that would accommodate private functions such as 702 00:34:33,139 --> 00:34:35,239 weddings meetings banquets 703 00:34:35,559 --> 00:34:38,719 in more non-commercial or rural areas and 704 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,579 And particularly recently we had one where they wanted to 705 00:34:43,579 --> 00:34:45,320 do a farm on the west side of town 706 00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:48,880 But and with a wedding facility that was that was 707 00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:52,820 Accessory to that but it's an NNR 2 zoning district and 708 00:34:52,820 --> 00:34:54,920 that doesn't permit that use 709 00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:58,630 And so and so but we think it's you know, it might be a 710 00:34:58,630 --> 00:35:00,840 really good idea for the area 711 00:35:01,519 --> 00:35:04,570 So when we looked at it, we realized the DDC really doesn't 712 00:35:04,570 --> 00:35:05,920 have a definition that 713 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,420 Accurately describes this activity and this activity can 714 00:35:09,420 --> 00:35:10,559 include catering 715 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,800 Alcohol sales for on-site consumption or live or recorded 716 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,199 music. So for once again like weddings or some sort of 717 00:35:18,199 --> 00:35:19,119 private event 718 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,889 We look we typically apply two different uses to that one 719 00:35:24,889 --> 00:35:26,280 being restaurant 720 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:30,230 Which isn't really accurate and the other being semi public 721 00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:31,840 halls clubs and lodges 722 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,010 Which really isn't accurate because that really applies to 723 00:35:34,010 --> 00:35:35,699 not-for-profit entities 724 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,320 So we don't really just have a good definition that that 725 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,199 encompasses all these activities 726 00:35:41,559 --> 00:35:43,239 So when we discussed it 727 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,030 We thought of two options that we could move forward with 728 00:35:46,030 --> 00:35:48,780 one would be to revise an existing definition and the other 729 00:35:48,780 --> 00:35:49,440 would be to 730 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,440 create a new use 731 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,599 So let's look at the first option it would be to revise an 732 00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:57,519 existing definition and that would be the definition of 733 00:35:57,519 --> 00:35:58,519 semi public halls 734 00:35:58,519 --> 00:36:02,059 Clubs and lodges the DDC defines that as a structure 735 00:36:02,059 --> 00:36:04,849 facility owned or operated for special educational or 736 00:36:04,849 --> 00:36:06,440 recreational purposes 737 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,579 But not primarily for profit or to render a service that is 738 00:36:09,579 --> 00:36:11,440 customarily carried on for gain 739 00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:15,480 So when you break down that definition the first part of it 740 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,440 the structure facility owned or operated for special 741 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:18,559 educational 742 00:36:19,199 --> 00:36:22,449 Recreational purposes that does encompass the the specific 743 00:36:22,449 --> 00:36:25,679 activities that would be associated with an assembly hall 744 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,329 However, when you look at the second part that limits it to 745 00:36:29,329 --> 00:36:30,639 the not-for-profit 746 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,079 entities 747 00:36:33,079 --> 00:36:36,690 so so these these these applicants who are coming to us, we 748 00:36:36,690 --> 00:36:38,179 really just didn't have something to 749 00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:41,820 To to apply to what they're wanting to do 750 00:36:42,599 --> 00:36:46,559 And so the first option would be to propose this definition 751 00:36:46,559 --> 00:36:49,920 to remove the semi public add in assembly halls 752 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,650 For for the use and then to remove the second part of the 753 00:36:53,650 --> 00:36:56,639 definition which would be the not-for-profit 754 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,840 So it would broaden who could use it. So for-profit 755 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:01,239 entities could use it 756 00:37:02,159 --> 00:37:05,510 The second option would just be to put in a new use in the 757 00:37:05,510 --> 00:37:06,679 development code 758 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,329 In the use tables and in the definitions a proposed 759 00:37:10,329 --> 00:37:13,340 definition would be a building or pump building or portion 760 00:37:13,340 --> 00:37:13,840 of a building 761 00:37:14,119 --> 00:37:17,039 In which facilities are provided for civic educational 762 00:37:17,039 --> 00:37:19,840 political religious or social purposes 763 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,000 So when we look at the use tables for these proposed uses 764 00:37:26,039 --> 00:37:29,300 We're really looking at mimicking what's existing in the 765 00:37:29,300 --> 00:37:32,599 Denton Development Code for semi public halls clubs and lod 766 00:37:32,599 --> 00:37:32,820 ges 767 00:37:32,820 --> 00:37:36,130 As I've said those those activities that are associated 768 00:37:36,130 --> 00:37:36,980 with that use 769 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,340 Really are the same thing that would be associated with an 770 00:37:40,340 --> 00:37:43,400 assembly hall, but it does have that not-for-profit 771 00:37:44,599 --> 00:37:47,070 Component to it. So we're really just mimicking what's 772 00:37:47,070 --> 00:37:48,519 already in the Denton Development Code 773 00:37:48,639 --> 00:37:51,670 So for the rural districts that would not be permitted in 774 00:37:51,670 --> 00:37:53,760 RD5, but would be permitted in RC 775 00:37:55,039 --> 00:37:57,550 for the neighborhood residential zoning districts, it would 776 00:37:57,550 --> 00:37:57,739 be 777 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,719 Permitted with an SUP in districts 1 NR1 through NR6 778 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,539 it would have a limitation in NRMU 12 and then permitted in 779 00:38:08,539 --> 00:38:09,000 NRMU and 780 00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,460 Then be permitted by right in in the downtown districts the 781 00:38:14,460 --> 00:38:17,679 community mixed use districts the regional mixed use 782 00:38:17,679 --> 00:38:18,239 districts 783 00:38:19,159 --> 00:38:22,599 the employment centers and the industrial centers 784 00:38:25,159 --> 00:38:28,119 So the discussion and what I'm posing to you tonight is 785 00:38:28,119 --> 00:38:31,280 when staff really looks at at a 786 00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:35,239 potential code amendment to allow for assembly halls 787 00:38:35,559 --> 00:38:38,670 We're really leaning toward the the revising the existing 788 00:38:38,670 --> 00:38:41,280 use it already encompasses the activities 789 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,230 it's already embedded within the use tables and it really 790 00:38:44,230 --> 00:38:44,679 is just 791 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,159 just 792 00:38:47,159 --> 00:38:49,159 broadening it to allow for 793 00:38:49,639 --> 00:38:52,639 for-profit entities, but we wanted to get your feedback on 794 00:38:52,639 --> 00:38:55,119 it and then see if you had any other adjustments to 795 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,659 To what I've presented to you tonight and see if you had 796 00:38:57,659 --> 00:38:58,679 any other comments 797 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,599 Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you chair Julie. Can you please 798 00:39:03,599 --> 00:39:06,440 go back to the first definition that you were suggesting? 799 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,280 Just want to look at that again 800 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,639 Okay, and then the second definition again 801 00:39:16,679 --> 00:39:19,639 Okay, so my question is 802 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,349 Regarding gentlemen's clubs, right and though I might 803 00:39:24,349 --> 00:39:26,719 disagree with the definition of a gentleman while we're 804 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,079 talking about gentlemen's clubs 805 00:39:28,079 --> 00:39:31,250 I'm wondering if we might be opening the door for something 806 00:39:31,250 --> 00:39:34,199 like that to be put on the outskirts of town. What are the 807 00:39:34,199 --> 00:39:34,880 limitations? 808 00:39:35,679 --> 00:39:37,289 Surrounding let me get my use to because I because I 809 00:39:37,289 --> 00:39:39,800 understand like we're looking at something for like a 810 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:40,840 wedding reception 811 00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,880 I'm all for that. Let's talk about that 812 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,349 But I just want to want to be clear are we opening the door 813 00:39:46,349 --> 00:39:48,400 for other uses that might not be 814 00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:51,360 Let me get my receptionist reception halls 815 00:39:55,119 --> 00:39:57,119 They're actually part of this 816 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,320 Okay, they're part of a zoning class of sexually oriented 817 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,119 businesses. Okay, you precluded in most 818 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,480 Use classifications. Okay 819 00:40:09,079 --> 00:40:12,099 Yes, we do have a use for that okay, so those are 820 00:40:12,099 --> 00:40:15,840 specifically defined defined in the TTC. Okay. Thank you 821 00:40:17,039 --> 00:40:19,039 Commissioner Roselle. Thank you chair 822 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,820 along with Commissioner Burgles point is this potential for 823 00:40:22,820 --> 00:40:23,159 like 824 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,480 amphitheaters or like concert venues 825 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,360 I'm thinking about noise if they're able just to 826 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,989 Public use and close to neighborhoods if there's any 827 00:40:32,989 --> 00:40:36,320 limitations in code that would have a decibel requirement 828 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:37,079 or 829 00:40:37,519 --> 00:40:40,130 We did we did look at that because that was a concern that 830 00:40:40,130 --> 00:40:43,059 we had for particularly the neighborhood residential zoning 831 00:40:43,059 --> 00:40:43,519 district 832 00:40:43,519 --> 00:40:46,090 But it does have that extra layer of the specific use 833 00:40:46,090 --> 00:40:46,519 permit 834 00:40:46,679 --> 00:40:49,860 So, you know the specific use permit is a use that may be 835 00:40:49,860 --> 00:40:51,559 permitted in that zoning district 836 00:40:52,079 --> 00:40:54,869 provided that it can meet certain criteria for approval or 837 00:40:54,869 --> 00:40:56,920 may have additional conditions, so 838 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,219 conditions could be put on the use for the hours of 839 00:41:00,219 --> 00:41:03,679 operation for noise limits for 840 00:41:04,519 --> 00:41:06,840 the duration of the use you could put a 841 00:41:07,519 --> 00:41:10,969 You could say this use is only permitted for five years and 842 00:41:10,969 --> 00:41:11,840 you'd have to come back 843 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,860 So there are conditions we can put on it that would ensure 844 00:41:15,860 --> 00:41:19,400 compatibility with the neighborhood. Okay. Thank you. Sure 845 00:41:20,039 --> 00:41:21,119 clarification 846 00:41:21,119 --> 00:41:24,760 Commissioner dead always when you said the SUP does the SUP 847 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,400 request have to come through us? Yes 848 00:41:27,679 --> 00:41:30,480 Okay, so then to public here would have the ability to 849 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,880 Question it Commissioner Huntsman. So just 850 00:41:38,119 --> 00:41:39,920 By way of example 851 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,880 the Martin Luther King Center there does quite a bit of 852 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,280 All that what is their classification? 853 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,000 that is that 854 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,239 That's a public part 855 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,230 Not sure part part of the MLK Center is parkland it's also 856 00:42:01,230 --> 00:42:04,559 community service use 857 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,599 Community service is permitted in numerous 858 00:42:10,519 --> 00:42:12,559 If I can clarify a little bit 859 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,320 just to go back to 860 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,000 Commissioner Rizal you mentioned amphitheater 861 00:42:18,679 --> 00:42:22,420 We've evaluated the schedule of uses the uses that are 862 00:42:22,420 --> 00:42:23,119 permitted 863 00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,280 In our zoning ordinance in our Denton Development Code 864 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,670 Amphitheater for example was one of the issues we looked at 865 00:42:30,670 --> 00:42:32,480 how much open air what are we talking about? 866 00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,449 What about noise that use is specified and the parameters 867 00:42:35,449 --> 00:42:39,119 of that definition do not fit into this definition 868 00:42:39,119 --> 00:42:41,559 So you can automatically through process of elimination neg 869 00:42:41,559 --> 00:42:44,559 ate that we also have another use called 870 00:42:46,559 --> 00:42:49,239 Judy Sophia, I'm sorry. What was that use again? It just 871 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:53,079 major event entertainment that has parameters on 872 00:42:53,679 --> 00:42:56,989 The occupancy with that as well the specific use permit in 873 00:42:56,989 --> 00:42:59,440 this instance would allow you to place further parameters 874 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,360 on your occupancy load 875 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,079 On how much outdoor activity you could have? 876 00:43:04,679 --> 00:43:07,880 Noise we do have a noise ordinance that is in place as well 877 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,920 let's take an example if a 878 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,360 banquet hall and I mean or an assembly hall came in in the 879 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,880 neighborhood residential district you have a large 880 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:18,039 residential subdivision and 881 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,110 As part of their amenity center they have this use so that 882 00:43:22,110 --> 00:43:24,719 communities the community can utilize it 883 00:43:25,039 --> 00:43:28,110 The specific use permit would also come into play that 884 00:43:28,110 --> 00:43:30,159 would then further condition 885 00:43:30,559 --> 00:43:32,559 the use of that site 886 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,400 We also have civic centers 887 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,420 That Sophie just mentioned and those uses are again defined 888 00:43:39,420 --> 00:43:43,280 separately in terms of the city's functions in the city's 889 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:43,960 uses and 890 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,320 Again, those are limited under different parameters as well 891 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:51,360 . So this specifically is being proposed to accommodate 892 00:43:52,079 --> 00:43:55,969 in commercial districts in residential districts depending 893 00:43:55,969 --> 00:43:58,320 on the zoning you're looking at to allow a 894 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,239 Structure that could accommodate for instance a wedding and 895 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,219 associated with the wedding you would have for a band as an 896 00:44:05,219 --> 00:44:05,719 example 897 00:44:06,079 --> 00:44:08,079 Or you have a very large 898 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,099 Property that has green space and you wanted to use that 899 00:44:11,099 --> 00:44:13,079 utilize the outdoor component 900 00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,610 To accommodate a wedding for example and have an outdoor 901 00:44:16,610 --> 00:44:16,960 band 902 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,139 But again the ordinances that exist would apply to those 903 00:44:20,139 --> 00:44:20,480 uses 904 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,039 Yes, sir, yeah sure that I 905 00:44:26,559 --> 00:44:30,550 Think I understood that but my only my only example is and 906 00:44:30,550 --> 00:44:33,039 I guess I'll get to the to the just of it 907 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,480 shift down the street the 908 00:44:36,199 --> 00:44:39,630 Legion Hall the Legion Hall does everything you touched on 909 00:44:39,630 --> 00:44:42,309 currently under the current northern they have a church 910 00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:42,960 that meets there 911 00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,260 It's rented out every weekend for private parties. It's 912 00:44:46,260 --> 00:44:49,969 used as a community building. So why do we need to change 913 00:44:49,969 --> 00:44:50,460 it? 914 00:44:50,460 --> 00:44:51,480 I guess that's what I'm saying 915 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,219 If what what is wrong with the ordinance now that all that 916 00:44:55,219 --> 00:44:58,579 's going on in that building that would not apply to a 917 00:44:58,579 --> 00:44:59,800 private building 918 00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:02,590 What am I missing the definition limits it to a not-for- 919 00:45:02,590 --> 00:45:05,239 profit? I think I understand what you're saying 920 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,530 People rent it and they're not you know, because it's gonna 921 00:45:09,530 --> 00:45:11,519 be a facility that's rented by private entity 922 00:45:11,519 --> 00:45:14,659 That's not that is you know, and we may not be aware that 923 00:45:14,659 --> 00:45:16,000 it's being rented for that 924 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,719 Do you see so the use is that they're conducting out of 925 00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:20,840 that facility? 926 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,800 May not fit the definition yet. They might do that 927 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,559 For profit as you're saying but more than likely 928 00:45:29,079 --> 00:45:32,199 It is our assumption that those uses that do occur out of 929 00:45:32,199 --> 00:45:35,119 facilities that we know are for non-profit 930 00:45:35,119 --> 00:45:39,469 Are for not profit as the definition reads or intended to 931 00:45:39,469 --> 00:45:40,159 be in that manner 932 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,880 clarification or that was 933 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,769 We have to go back and look at the definition of what is 934 00:45:45,769 --> 00:45:47,840 profit nonprofit if the organization 935 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,750 Is filed as a nonprofit then they can take revenue into 936 00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:54,000 offset costs at the end of the year 937 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,980 In the gates and there's a definition for that. So 938 00:45:58,679 --> 00:46:02,480 We have to understand that in the in their definitions of 939 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:04,900 profit nonprofits not by individual events 940 00:46:04,900 --> 00:46:08,440 It's by that entity and how it files its taxes, right? 941 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:10,880 Commissioner Tyler, thank you chair 942 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,539 So I'm trying to think of an example now of something in 943 00:46:14,539 --> 00:46:18,039 the city that might fall under this use and Civic Center 944 00:46:18,039 --> 00:46:21,800 Is a city property MLK centers city property 945 00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,239 the you know the 946 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,480 American Legion and those are all 947 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,909 nonprofits churches, they're all nonprofits TWU and UNT 948 00:46:30,909 --> 00:46:32,840 both can rent halls 949 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,130 State organizations that are exempt from zoning. So and I 950 00:46:37,130 --> 00:46:40,599 guess we we used to the Radisson used to have an 951 00:46:41,119 --> 00:46:43,769 Attached use but it would be secondary to the hotel. So we 952 00:46:43,769 --> 00:46:45,880 really right now don't have any privately owned 953 00:46:46,559 --> 00:46:49,730 Like event centers or conference centers or anything. Is 954 00:46:49,730 --> 00:46:51,480 that what about Ashton Gardens? 955 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,710 It's a wedding venue off I 35. I believe that's in current. 956 00:46:56,710 --> 00:46:57,119 That's current 957 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,989 But it's a similar. Yes. Well, I've got one to just throw 958 00:47:01,989 --> 00:47:02,280 out 959 00:47:04,199 --> 00:47:05,909 How would for example like in some of the larger 960 00:47:05,909 --> 00:47:09,840 developments that have like an amenity center or 961 00:47:11,119 --> 00:47:14,840 How would these that are in a residential area can those 962 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,039 now be rented out for this or not? 963 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,760 With an SUV. Okay. Okay. Any other questions? 964 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,400 I'll be back 965 00:47:26,519 --> 00:47:29,599 I just commissioner has been yes, sir. Thank you. I 966 00:47:31,519 --> 00:47:33,860 Just need I guess I don't get it 967 00:47:34,599 --> 00:47:37,909 Is this is a short answer and the longer answer is if I'm a 968 00:47:37,909 --> 00:47:41,099 business owner and you're giving me a whole bunch of moving 969 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,920 Parts then I don't want to invest because I'm in the 970 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:44,719 business of 971 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,840 hosting parties every weekend 972 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,719 Every hour on the hour and I don't want to come in front of 973 00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,239 the council every week to get the okay, you know 974 00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,239 I mean, I just don't know 975 00:47:57,679 --> 00:48:00,940 Maybe I'm missing it and then I'll concede that but I'm 976 00:48:00,940 --> 00:48:04,440 gonna ask to give you a clarification on the issue 977 00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,510 If I could jump in an SUP it would just be a well, it 978 00:48:07,510 --> 00:48:09,480 depends on how it's structured 979 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,389 But it would they would get approval from the count from 980 00:48:12,389 --> 00:48:15,300 the council for either a limited amount of time or a 981 00:48:15,300 --> 00:48:16,480 specified amount of time 982 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,280 So they wouldn't have to come once a week 983 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,420 It would be for their their a duration a long duration that 984 00:48:21,420 --> 00:48:23,599 they would be there and it would only be 985 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,139 On what we discussed it would only be in the residential 986 00:48:27,139 --> 00:48:27,760 districts 987 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,789 The the commercial districts it would be permitted by right 988 00:48:31,789 --> 00:48:33,719 so downtown they could do it 989 00:48:34,559 --> 00:48:37,940 You know on the loop in commercial districts they could do 990 00:48:37,940 --> 00:48:41,039 it but in a residential area we would want to have a little 991 00:48:41,039 --> 00:48:41,320 more 992 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,800 Scrutiny on it to make sure that it did 993 00:48:45,639 --> 00:48:48,920 Was compatible with the existing development pattern and 994 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:50,840 the the existing land uses 995 00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,630 So but as you P they wouldn't have to come every time they 996 00:48:53,630 --> 00:48:57,400 had an event just for the use for the duration 997 00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,820 I don't know if I'm saying that I don't know if I'm correct 998 00:49:00,599 --> 00:49:02,599 Okay 999 00:49:03,159 --> 00:49:07,119 Thank you, by way of example on Lilliam Miller there's the 1000 00:49:08,199 --> 00:49:12,199 Yes, what is there? What is their duration of their SUP? 1001 00:49:12,199 --> 00:49:13,679 They don't have an SUP 1002 00:49:13,679 --> 00:49:16,750 It actually is a bed and it's a non-conforming use and it's 1003 00:49:16,750 --> 00:49:19,039 actually considered a bed and breakfast 1004 00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:21,659 It was developed under a plan development prior to the 1005 00:49:21,659 --> 00:49:24,480 develop prior to the adoption of the current didn't 1006 00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:25,159 development code 1007 00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,230 So that type of use would be permitted depending on which 1008 00:49:29,230 --> 00:49:30,199 zoning district 1009 00:49:30,199 --> 00:49:32,570 They were in either by right or with the approval of a 1010 00:49:32,570 --> 00:49:33,480 specific use permit 1011 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,590 The intent of the specific use permit is if we're looking 1012 00:49:36,590 --> 00:49:39,500 at residential areas or let's take the existing site that 1013 00:49:39,500 --> 00:49:40,480 you just mentioned 1014 00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,440 Let's assume the zoning was that required an SUP 1015 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:48,079 But we know what the surrounding land uses are that would 1016 00:49:48,079 --> 00:49:51,599 allow us to conduct an analysis to determine that it is not 1017 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,559 detrimental to the existing land uses that are already 1018 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,320 established in the area as an example 1019 00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,119 Okay 1020 00:50:02,119 --> 00:50:03,800 Thank you 1021 00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:05,800 Any other questions on this item? 1022 00:50:07,039 --> 00:50:09,039 We'll move on to 1023 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:11,699 Receive a report on the didn't development code 1024 00:50:11,699 --> 00:50:13,360 requirements for getting to use 1025 00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:19,400 Yes, I'm sorry we back it commissioner Taylor so 1026 00:50:20,119 --> 00:50:23,590 From what I'm hearing it sounds like everybody's okay with 1027 00:50:23,590 --> 00:50:24,280 a single 1028 00:50:25,199 --> 00:50:27,159 Modified existing definition 1029 00:50:27,159 --> 00:50:29,989 We don't think we need to split them from a non to have a 1030 00:50:29,989 --> 00:50:33,199 non-profit definition and a for-profit definition. Is that 1031 00:50:33,199 --> 00:50:34,519 is that correct? 1032 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,760 I'm fine with not splitting it 1033 00:50:42,119 --> 00:50:45,699 So am I do we need a vote or how does this get no we will 1034 00:50:45,699 --> 00:50:47,480 now want now that we've got the nod 1035 00:50:47,519 --> 00:50:50,789 We'll proceed with actually conducting the public hearing 1036 00:50:50,789 --> 00:50:54,000 to amend the DDC to incorporate the revised definition 1037 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,710 But not tonight not tonight, so we'll be able to talk about 1038 00:50:57,710 --> 00:50:58,599 this some more 1039 00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:01,480 Yes 1040 00:51:02,079 --> 00:51:05,320 Is that what anything else you need on this particular item 1041 00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:05,320 ? 1042 00:51:06,559 --> 00:51:09,159 Okay, we'll then move on to item B 1043 00:51:10,039 --> 00:51:12,039 Julie I'll stay here 1044 00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,880 All right 1045 00:51:15,199 --> 00:51:19,800 So a few months ago you had a case come before you that was 1046 00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:21,780 going to be a gated community 1047 00:51:21,780 --> 00:51:23,789 And there were some current concerns and questions 1048 00:51:23,789 --> 00:51:25,199 regarding connectivity and other 1049 00:51:26,039 --> 00:51:28,280 Facilities that were associated with gated community 1050 00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:30,280 so we just wanted to bring this back and talk to you about 1051 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,400 what's in the DDC regarding gated communities and and then 1052 00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,800 Ask answer any questions we can for you 1053 00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,519 So we'll start with the definition of a gated community sub 1054 00:51:45,519 --> 00:51:46,239 chapter 23 1055 00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:49,280 Defines that it is a subdivision or housing development 1056 00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,179 with two or more dwellings with private streets controlled 1057 00:51:52,179 --> 00:51:53,119 through the use of a 1058 00:51:53,639 --> 00:51:55,639 vehicular or pedestrian gate 1059 00:51:57,599 --> 00:51:59,599 So when a 1060 00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:03,380 Gated community when we look at it from a staff level and 1061 00:52:03,380 --> 00:52:07,039 then at P&Z. It's it's typically through the plat 1062 00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:09,599 we 1063 00:52:09,599 --> 00:52:13,250 The requirements for gated communities are in sub chapter 1064 00:52:13,250 --> 00:52:14,840 16 of the Denton development code 1065 00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,619 and so a lot of the issues that come up with gated 1066 00:52:17,619 --> 00:52:18,679 communities are 1067 00:52:19,519 --> 00:52:22,239 Are reviewed during the platting process? 1068 00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,199 So we'll just go over the main things that you're gonna see 1069 00:52:26,199 --> 00:52:29,280 on a plat as they relate to a gated community 1070 00:52:30,039 --> 00:52:33,230 First of all the streets. I know connectivity was a was an 1071 00:52:33,230 --> 00:52:34,679 important question 1072 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:39,920 If a gated community only has one access point 1073 00:52:40,599 --> 00:52:44,030 For the public the code requires that they provide a second 1074 00:52:44,030 --> 00:52:46,760 access point for emergency vehicles only 1075 00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:49,579 So that is one that they need to have the two access points 1076 00:52:49,579 --> 00:52:49,840 one 1077 00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:53,039 For the people who live there and then one for the 1078 00:52:53,039 --> 00:52:54,460 emergency vehicles 1079 00:52:54,460 --> 00:52:57,880 I believe Commissioner Taylor. This is one of your 1080 00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:02,119 questions regarding a recent recent case the turnaround 1081 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:06,079 There is a turnaround that's required. It is within the 1082 00:53:06,079 --> 00:53:06,840 right-of-way 1083 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:10,360 But it is it has to be maintained by the HOA and it's 1084 00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:12,639 outside of the perimeter gate 1085 00:53:12,639 --> 00:53:15,099 So it would be something that someone if they didn't gain 1086 00:53:15,099 --> 00:53:17,630 access that they could turn around and get back on the 1087 00:53:17,630 --> 00:53:18,519 public street 1088 00:53:18,519 --> 00:53:20,800 So that is a requirement of our gated communities 1089 00:53:21,599 --> 00:53:23,599 the streets are 1090 00:53:23,639 --> 00:53:27,280 privately owned and maintained but they are designed 1091 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:31,639 To the requirements of public streets in the city of Denton 1092 00:53:32,519 --> 00:53:35,590 But the HOA does own those streets and they do maintain 1093 00:53:35,590 --> 00:53:36,039 them 1094 00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:39,880 And then connectivity and I want to look at my notes 1095 00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,590 So there is a provision within a sub chapter 16 regarding g 1096 00:53:44,590 --> 00:53:48,039 ated communities and gate and connectivity 1097 00:53:49,079 --> 00:53:51,599 Gated communities shall not be allowed to obstruct any 1098 00:53:51,599 --> 00:53:55,320 existing arterial street or proposed arterial street as 1099 00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:57,480 shown in the city mobility plan 1100 00:53:57,480 --> 00:53:59,480 so they're not allowed to 1101 00:54:00,159 --> 00:54:01,960 to 1102 00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,070 Create a situation where they're going to reduce 1103 00:54:04,070 --> 00:54:06,199 connectivity when it comes to the mobility plan 1104 00:54:07,079 --> 00:54:08,400 furthermore 1105 00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,590 They cannot negatively affect vehicular or pedestrian 1106 00:54:11,590 --> 00:54:13,880 traffic circulation on public streets 1107 00:54:14,039 --> 00:54:17,260 They can't impair access to the property to the subdivision 1108 00:54:17,260 --> 00:54:20,349 or to act or access to or from public facilities and that 1109 00:54:20,349 --> 00:54:21,519 includes schools 1110 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,030 Parks and libraries or the response time of the emergency 1111 00:54:25,030 --> 00:54:25,579 vehicle 1112 00:54:25,579 --> 00:54:28,170 So they do need we do need to make sure that the 1113 00:54:28,170 --> 00:54:31,329 connectivity is is not reduced and that we are aware of 1114 00:54:31,329 --> 00:54:31,719 that 1115 00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,039 That issue when it comes to gated communities 1116 00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:39,400 Just briefly 1117 00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,920 Water and wastewater those are located within 1118 00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:45,170 Underneath the streets so the streets are privately owned 1119 00:54:45,170 --> 00:54:46,039 and maintained 1120 00:54:46,199 --> 00:54:49,460 But they are required to dedicate a public utility easement 1121 00:54:49,460 --> 00:54:52,670 on top of those streets so that water and wastewater can be 1122 00:54:52,670 --> 00:54:54,280 located in those streets 1123 00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,860 it's also important to note that they are dedicated to the 1124 00:54:57,860 --> 00:55:01,239 city and so if a repair needed to be done the city would 1125 00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:03,960 potentially go under the street and 1126 00:55:05,039 --> 00:55:06,159 and 1127 00:55:06,159 --> 00:55:09,159 To repair the line if they did have to repair the street 1128 00:55:09,159 --> 00:55:11,039 the city would repair the street 1129 00:55:12,519 --> 00:55:16,360 In accordance with city standards and on the low cost 1130 00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:18,840 estimate and 1131 00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:20,800 If there were any design 1132 00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,260 Requirements that the that the neighborhood had that the g 1133 00:55:23,260 --> 00:55:26,199 ated community had that were above and beyond what the city 1134 00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,920 Guidelines were that the city would not put the street back 1135 00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,559 like that. The HOA would then have to take care of it 1136 00:55:32,559 --> 00:55:35,710 So if there was some sort of brick pattern on the street or 1137 00:55:35,710 --> 00:55:36,400 some other 1138 00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,000 Design element of the streets the city wouldn't necessarily 1139 00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,000 wouldn't put that back to HOA would be required to put that 1140 00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:43,239 back 1141 00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,239 Does that make sense? Okay 1142 00:55:46,599 --> 00:55:48,360 Electric facilities same thing 1143 00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,000 They are owned by electric company if they did if the city 1144 00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:52,880 had to get in or had to repair that 1145 00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:56,039 And then then the city would repair the streets 1146 00:55:56,559 --> 00:55:59,320 But but to what the city standards are 1147 00:56:00,119 --> 00:56:02,119 the access gates 1148 00:56:03,119 --> 00:56:08,039 Fire the fire chief is required to have access to any any 1149 00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:15,139 Codes or key pads in order to get into the property 1150 00:56:15,519 --> 00:56:18,780 they also the access gates also have to accommodate a fire 1151 00:56:18,780 --> 00:56:19,440 truck and 1152 00:56:20,559 --> 00:56:23,159 And be allowed that ingress and egress 1153 00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:25,519 the 1154 00:56:25,519 --> 00:56:28,929 Postmaster and the wet water wastewater the streets also 1155 00:56:28,929 --> 00:56:30,639 have access to the property 1156 00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:32,730 Just in case they need to get in there and then the post 1157 00:56:32,730 --> 00:56:34,880 office would obviously need to get in there as well as 1158 00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:35,400 solid waste 1159 00:56:37,679 --> 00:56:39,679 Here's a picture of 1160 00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,360 Agated community that's in existence in the city of Denton 1161 00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,599 Tuscan Hills, Tuscan Hills 1162 00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,750 And the most important thing on HOA is when you're talking 1163 00:56:48,750 --> 00:56:52,780 about all these public facilities is the HOA and I think we 1164 00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:56,039 We discussed it earlier this evening. They are required 1165 00:56:56,039 --> 00:56:57,420 within a gated community 1166 00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:00,719 during the final plat the 1167 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,579 Applicant is required to provide those HOA documents for us 1168 00:57:04,579 --> 00:57:05,119 to look at 1169 00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:07,389 Because we want to make sure that there are a couple of 1170 00:57:07,389 --> 00:57:10,360 things in those HOA documents first the power to 1171 00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,510 To file a lien or foreclose on the property. We want to 1172 00:57:13,510 --> 00:57:15,920 make sure they get paid so that the facilities can be 1173 00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:16,679 maintained 1174 00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:20,670 Provide for the maintenance of any of those common areas 1175 00:57:20,670 --> 00:57:23,199 and privately held facilities and 1176 00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,820 The Denton Development Code does require that they cannot 1177 00:57:26,820 --> 00:57:29,079 be dissolved without City Council approval 1178 00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:32,360 So if you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them 1179 00:57:33,519 --> 00:57:35,519 questions I 1180 00:57:35,599 --> 00:57:37,079 Have one 1181 00:57:37,079 --> 00:57:39,679 Excuse me Commissioner Hudson. Yeah, and I'll be brief. I 1182 00:57:39,679 --> 00:57:41,159 just want to 1183 00:57:42,079 --> 00:57:44,079 Bookmark here. I want to come back 1184 00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,440 later and talk about 1185 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:51,550 Disputes I'm concerned about litigation for if we repair a 1186 00:57:51,550 --> 00:57:54,719 road. They say it's not prepared repaired 1187 00:57:55,199 --> 00:57:57,849 Correctly, there's there's some sort of disputes there that 1188 00:57:57,849 --> 00:57:59,199 could come about and also 1189 00:58:02,679 --> 00:58:06,000 It strikes me as odd that you need a deposit to get your 1190 00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:09,000 utilities turned on but we're going to give 1191 00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:14,320 HOA streets with no bond or no requirement of 1192 00:58:15,719 --> 00:58:20,119 Money and so my concern the city ends up having to pay for 1193 00:58:20,119 --> 00:58:21,980 something and then go through 1194 00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:26,360 Foreclosure processes which ultimately may never result in 1195 00:58:29,239 --> 00:58:31,619 Recovering those lost dollars for whatever that whatever 1196 00:58:31,619 --> 00:58:35,769 started the litigation so, you know due to bankruptcy this 1197 00:58:35,769 --> 00:58:36,679 that or the other 1198 00:58:36,679 --> 00:58:40,039 So that's my concern, but we I'll save it for later, but I 1199 00:58:40,039 --> 00:58:41,679 do want to just earmark that 1200 00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:44,159 Okay 1201 00:58:44,159 --> 00:58:46,159 anybody else 1202 00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:48,920 I've got one question on this then 1203 00:58:50,599 --> 00:58:54,449 You addressed it somewhat on item three and five you've got 1204 00:58:54,449 --> 00:58:56,639 lease costs and I understand that 1205 00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:01,780 For the example you have up they have stamp concrete or pa 1206 00:59:01,780 --> 00:59:02,800 vers there 1207 00:59:04,239 --> 00:59:06,239 Does the city pay what? 1208 00:59:06,679 --> 00:59:10,000 The lease cost portion would be and then the HOA has to pay 1209 00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:11,619 on top or how does that? 1210 00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:15,760 Okay 1211 00:59:16,920 --> 00:59:20,000 That was my only anybody else Commissioner Briegel 1212 00:59:22,199 --> 00:59:24,079 Julie how many gated communities does Denton currently have 1213 00:59:24,079 --> 00:59:26,920 not counting the one that we just approved 1214 00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,639 I believe we have two we have Tuscan Hills and Robes and 1215 00:59:29,639 --> 00:59:30,019 ranch 1216 00:59:30,599 --> 00:59:32,599 Allison Park, is there another one? 1217 00:59:33,199 --> 00:59:36,199 T's Lee. Oh, okay. Sorry. Okay 1218 00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:40,840 And I'm kind of curious. So when people pay 1219 00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:44,920 HOA fees in one of those gated communities it goes not only 1220 00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:46,800 towards like it ropes and ranch for example 1221 00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:48,800 They've got that the golf course and they've got the 1222 00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,590 recreation facility and these beautiful amenities down 1223 00:59:51,590 --> 00:59:51,960 there 1224 00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:54,849 But the the HOA fees that they would pay also would go for 1225 00:59:54,849 --> 00:59:57,800 road maintenance and such yeah 1226 00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,480 Because those are privately maintained roads, correct? Okay 1227 01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,630 I'm curious what other because I'm not a part of an HOA so 1228 01:00:05,630 --> 01:00:09,000 when people pay an HOA fee in a neighborhood 1229 01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:12,010 That's not in a gated community. Where did those HOA fees 1230 01:00:12,010 --> 01:00:13,980 go? They're not going to street maintenance because those 1231 01:00:13,980 --> 01:00:14,519 are public roads 1232 01:00:15,519 --> 01:00:17,960 Well, if we have if there were open space if there was any 1233 01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,440 drainage facilities that were if there was a 1234 01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,679 Detention pond that was in that neighborhood then the HOA 1235 01:00:23,679 --> 01:00:25,800 fees would go toward maintaining that 1236 01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:29,000 In any other amenities that the HOA had 1237 01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:37,840 So if they 1238 01:00:38,239 --> 01:00:40,239 If an HOA were to fold 1239 01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:43,519 Who would then be responsible for 1240 01:00:45,159 --> 01:00:47,159 Those roads at that point 1241 01:00:47,639 --> 01:00:50,659 Would that be that would be for I'm gonna jump in make a 1242 01:00:50,659 --> 01:00:51,039 comment 1243 01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,110 We have a lot of discussion about the roads the roads are 1244 01:00:54,110 --> 01:00:55,800 put in for city specs 1245 01:00:56,239 --> 01:00:58,900 The developer pays for them and puts them in just like if 1246 01:00:58,900 --> 01:01:00,559 they are non HOA 1247 01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,619 The difference is the HOA is maintaining something that 1248 01:01:03,619 --> 01:01:06,199 otherwise the city would be maintaining 1249 01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:10,619 So the city in my opinion gets a benefit that the developer 1250 01:01:10,619 --> 01:01:13,559 pays for it puts it in and then is willing to maintain 1251 01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,719 Something and if the city gets it back then guess what? 1252 01:01:16,719 --> 01:01:19,269 They're now on the hook to maintain a street that the 1253 01:01:19,269 --> 01:01:21,199 private individual were paying for 1254 01:01:21,760 --> 01:01:24,929 Whereas a rather regular public street put in the same 1255 01:01:24,929 --> 01:01:28,239 specs. The public is paying for it from day one 1256 01:01:28,239 --> 01:01:30,239 so I don't see the 1257 01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,679 Concerns about that the HOA is somehow getting off the hook 1258 01:01:34,679 --> 01:01:37,050 But they're kind of carrying the note for the city as long 1259 01:01:37,050 --> 01:01:37,639 as they're in 1260 01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:41,329 Functioning and the city gets it back after being taken 1261 01:01:41,329 --> 01:01:44,239 care of and paid for by HOA for however long that is 1262 01:01:44,239 --> 01:01:46,239 Well, I certainly didn't mean to 1263 01:01:47,239 --> 01:01:49,760 Sorry if my question came off that way that I was accusing 1264 01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:51,320 HOA's of getting off the hook 1265 01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:54,440 I just I sincerely want to know if an HOA were to fold and 1266 01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:56,519 they've been maintaining these roads this whole time 1267 01:01:56,639 --> 01:01:59,070 Then that financial burden would then come back to the city 1268 01:01:59,070 --> 01:02:01,039 and they finally have to start paying for it 1269 01:02:01,039 --> 01:02:03,039 Okay, well the common areas 1270 01:02:03,039 --> 01:02:06,949 I'm also curious are are do are there other cities that you 1271 01:02:06,949 --> 01:02:09,840 are aware of that don't allow gated communities? 1272 01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:11,840 And if so, what are there? 1273 01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:14,320 What are there I'm just I'm 1274 01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:18,500 Sincerely curious about this. Yeah, no, they're across the 1275 01:02:18,500 --> 01:02:20,239 board. Yeah, okay 1276 01:02:21,239 --> 01:02:23,239 I'm done now 1277 01:02:23,599 --> 01:02:27,449 Thank you Mr. Gatowich in my life experience I have lived 1278 01:02:27,449 --> 01:02:27,599 in 1279 01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:32,230 17 different homesteads. I have lived in HOA's gated and 1280 01:02:32,230 --> 01:02:35,760 non gated communities and your questions are well founded 1281 01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:38,440 The HOA put together a budget 1282 01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:40,880 Requiring you know where the funds have to go if they're g 1283 01:02:40,880 --> 01:02:45,000 ated their additional funds. I live in an HOA situation now 1284 01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:48,260 We maintain common property and our HOA fees are pretty 1285 01:02:48,260 --> 01:02:52,199 small as compared to other HOA's that I belong to so it 1286 01:02:52,599 --> 01:02:55,489 Just you know, the HOA's got to come up with a budget and 1287 01:02:55,489 --> 01:02:58,639 then they assess the homeowners and property owners a 1288 01:02:58,639 --> 01:02:59,880 certain percentage of that 1289 01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:02,519 They maintain their budget and puts into a kitty 1290 01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:07,469 Future use for maintenance issues and in some cases those 1291 01:03:07,469 --> 01:03:09,000 can be fairly high HOA fees 1292 01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:12,559 But the people going in there know that and they maintain 1293 01:03:12,559 --> 01:03:16,039 their funds accordingly. So yeah, I've been there done that 1294 01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:19,320 Any other questions on this item? 1295 01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:22,900 Commissioner back. Thank you chair in the event that an HOA 1296 01:03:22,900 --> 01:03:23,480 does fold 1297 01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:26,710 Do we didn't get to go in and tear the gates down? It's no 1298 01:03:26,710 --> 01:03:27,760 longer a gated community 1299 01:03:34,119 --> 01:03:38,039 Do they essentially lose their rights then they had I would 1300 01:03:38,039 --> 01:03:40,440 assume that yes the gate would have to 1301 01:03:46,039 --> 01:03:49,920 Any other questions on this item are we gonna look for 1302 01:03:51,239 --> 01:03:55,440 We're not leaving any action on this. No, this was purely a 1303 01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:58,800 Discussion we presented some facts that are in our dental 1304 01:03:58,800 --> 01:03:59,920 development code 1305 01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:02,340 The Commission had asked I would think about a month and a 1306 01:04:02,340 --> 01:04:03,199 half ago on 1307 01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:05,960 What are the parameters and we wanted to provide some 1308 01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:06,760 insight to you? 1309 01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,840 Thank you. I had requested that and I'm very I was very 1310 01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:13,400 pleased to see that come up on our work session 1311 01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,880 So quickly after that request, so thank you for that 1312 01:04:16,679 --> 01:04:20,780 Thank you, Julie. I think been whispered to that. We've got 1313 01:04:20,780 --> 01:04:22,199 some food if this takes care of this 1314 01:04:22,199 --> 01:04:24,440 I'm I think maybe what we'll do if the 1315 01:04:25,079 --> 01:04:28,400 Commission entertain this is real break to get food and 1316 01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,800 then come back for mobility. I did have one 1317 01:04:31,519 --> 01:04:33,599 Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you chair. I had a couple of 1318 01:04:33,599 --> 01:04:36,079 questions or corrections regarding the minutes 1319 01:04:36,079 --> 01:04:39,400 Should we talk about that now or in our regular session? 1320 01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:42,920 You want to you want to eat food? 1321 01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,170 Okay, that's fine. Okay. We're gonna take a recess right 1322 01:04:47,170 --> 01:04:50,099 now and and get some food and we'll be back 1323 01:05:00,559 --> 01:05:00,699 Thank you, it's 16 618 and we're going to call the work 1324 01:05:00,699 --> 01:05:07,570 session back in order to hear continuing on the mobility 1325 01:05:07,570 --> 01:05:08,739 report 1326 01:05:12,199 --> 01:05:14,280 So what I'm gonna try to do over the next couple minutes is 1327 01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:15,739 hit the highlights of the questions 1328 01:05:15,739 --> 01:05:18,230 I heard when you're discussing and a lot of this you've 1329 01:05:18,230 --> 01:05:20,440 seen before it's the same presentation last time 1330 01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:22,809 But one of the things I want to point out is what's your 1331 01:05:22,809 --> 01:05:24,800 current existing mobility plan looks like 1332 01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:29,019 This is your current existing plan. That's it's really this 1333 01:05:29,019 --> 01:05:32,289 is a mobility map. We're doing that's kind of a better way 1334 01:05:32,289 --> 01:05:32,519 to say 1335 01:05:32,519 --> 01:05:35,079 We're adopting a mobility map, but it's a plan 1336 01:05:35,079 --> 01:05:38,480 It's a roadmap to the future and so this is just for some 1337 01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:41,440 clarifications and of what it was now as you can see 1338 01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:44,460 Some of these are not on here. I'm gonna walk through the 1339 01:05:44,460 --> 01:05:47,309 different thought process we have and I'm gonna skip a 1340 01:05:47,309 --> 01:05:49,119 couple slides of the stuff that 1341 01:05:50,679 --> 01:05:52,679 May not be as important 1342 01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:54,880 The first thing we looked at 1343 01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:56,880 Was what are the roads are already approved? 1344 01:05:57,239 --> 01:05:59,130 That already planned and the reason we want to look at this 1345 01:05:59,130 --> 01:06:01,289 is because we want to see how this was going to affect the 1346 01:06:01,289 --> 01:06:01,679 network 1347 01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:04,630 So these roads in Brown are roads that we added but these 1348 01:06:04,630 --> 01:06:07,599 are already planned developments that are approved 1349 01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:10,289 That are the master plan communities and they're just the 1350 01:06:10,289 --> 01:06:12,019 roads that are on their development plan 1351 01:06:12,519 --> 01:06:14,119 so these are 1352 01:06:14,119 --> 01:06:16,119 Really not roads that we came up with but we wanted to know 1353 01:06:16,119 --> 01:06:17,980 how to connect to these roads because you knew at some 1354 01:06:17,980 --> 01:06:18,360 point 1355 01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,019 In time in the future these roads are good logical places 1356 01:06:21,019 --> 01:06:22,800 to connect the outside network with 1357 01:06:24,719 --> 01:06:27,960 And so basically we're matching already planned roadways 1358 01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:31,250 The second item is we looked at where new ways are new road 1359 01:06:31,250 --> 01:06:33,880 ways would go and these are the purple roads 1360 01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:36,570 We basically were looking at the map and finding areas 1361 01:06:36,570 --> 01:06:38,139 where connections could occur 1362 01:06:39,519 --> 01:06:41,960 connectivity is one of the things that you'll notice is as 1363 01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:44,349 you start building out your network one is what's the one 1364 01:06:44,349 --> 01:06:45,000 the best ways to 1365 01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:46,599 Improve mobility is connectivity 1366 01:06:46,599 --> 01:06:49,409 So we started looking for how to connect existing roads 1367 01:06:49,409 --> 01:06:51,920 those future MPC roads and get them on the map 1368 01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:53,920 and so the purple roads are 1369 01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:57,530 New roadways that we have identified and these most of 1370 01:06:57,530 --> 01:07:01,320 these areas are future growth areas. There are a few 1371 01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:06,960 Infill areas to increase connectivity 1372 01:07:09,519 --> 01:07:13,139 Commissioner Bruegel, thank you chair. Are these these 1373 01:07:13,139 --> 01:07:14,260 proposed new additions? 1374 01:07:14,260 --> 01:07:16,739 Those are all going to be city maintained roads and not 1375 01:07:16,739 --> 01:07:18,119 text out roads. Is that correct? 1376 01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:21,400 These are all proposed city maintained roads. So is there 1377 01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,969 So like the the future completion of loop 288 wouldn't be 1378 01:07:25,969 --> 01:07:27,239 included on this 1379 01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,619 But it was it was taken into consideration during the it 1380 01:07:30,619 --> 01:07:33,360 was taking it we took into consideration text out roads 1381 01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:35,360 I believe all the new roads that we identified on here 1382 01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:39,360 On this purple map or not text out facilities, but the text 1383 01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:41,730 out roads are considered the mobility plan because the 1384 01:07:41,730 --> 01:07:43,000 arterial network of text 1385 01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:46,119 That's a is the skeleton of Denton's mobility network 1386 01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:50,610 Do you have a map perhaps where you have like an overlay of 1387 01:07:50,610 --> 01:07:53,239 the proposed or projected? 1388 01:07:54,519 --> 01:07:57,039 Completion of 288 so we can see kind of how it 1389 01:07:57,760 --> 01:07:59,760 matches up 1390 01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:02,400 Let me see 1391 01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:04,920 This is the mobility map 1392 01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:11,840 The mouse so here's 288 and 1393 01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,520 After it gets to 380 it doesn't it's not 1394 01:08:17,039 --> 01:08:19,510 It's no longer kind of a freeway type of facility on the 1395 01:08:19,510 --> 01:08:20,119 west side 1396 01:08:20,119 --> 01:08:22,550 It just turns into more of your primary arterial kind of 1397 01:08:22,550 --> 01:08:25,359 your Boulevard section as opposed to access manage section 1398 01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:28,710 And it follows through down to through Jim Crystal down to 1399 01:08:28,710 --> 01:08:29,640 2449 1400 01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:32,899 And like we talked about earlier, we looked at the 1401 01:08:32,899 --> 01:08:33,680 alignment 1402 01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:35,840 We looked at avoiding some of the gas wells in the area, 1403 01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:38,340 but when that when the when the project actually 1404 01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:40,720 Becomes a reality and people start studying alignment 1405 01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:43,239 Engineering will get survey out there and start looking at 1406 01:08:43,239 --> 01:08:44,359 where that roadway goes 1407 01:08:44,359 --> 01:08:47,310 but this is based on our aerial photography and some other 1408 01:08:47,310 --> 01:08:48,439 contours we have and 1409 01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,180 Gaswell locations of where we'll put the location so it 1410 01:08:51,180 --> 01:08:54,159 ties into to 2499 and comes back around 1411 01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:57,479 And on the other side, it's pretty much there already. I 1412 01:08:57,479 --> 01:08:57,899 mean 1413 01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:00,520 So it doesn't quite loop all the way around 1414 01:09:01,159 --> 01:09:03,880 Comes into vintage on the other side back to 377 1415 01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:07,770 Well 288 ever I'm sorry. Yeah, well the loop ever make a 1416 01:09:07,770 --> 01:09:10,239 complete loop or is it just gonna be like that horseshoe 1417 01:09:10,239 --> 01:09:10,439 shape 1418 01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:14,130 From which time right now it looks like a horseshoe shape. 1419 01:09:14,130 --> 01:09:17,119 Well, I mean you can follow it around as a little but it's 1420 01:09:18,039 --> 01:09:19,479 course 1421 01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:21,479 Commissioner Dadowitz 1422 01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:24,319 Follow up I was under 1423 01:09:25,199 --> 01:09:27,600 Wow, I was someone had mentioned to me that 1424 01:09:29,199 --> 01:09:33,479 Mayhill will become part in parcel the loop 288 and 1425 01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:36,760 Loop 288 will be renamed Lily and Miller 1426 01:09:37,359 --> 01:09:39,800 is that something I misheard or 1427 01:09:40,359 --> 01:09:42,119 because of the 1428 01:09:42,119 --> 01:09:45,210 the loop is not necessarily the loop as we envisioned it 1429 01:09:45,210 --> 01:09:47,079 way back when because of all the 1430 01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:50,750 Entrances and exits of commercial property there. I'll have 1431 01:09:50,750 --> 01:09:52,560 to stop the city staff. I hadn't heard that 1432 01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:59,670 Mayhill actually runs parallel to loop 288. So may have 1433 01:09:59,670 --> 01:10:02,760 will be a separate road primary or trail by itself 1434 01:10:03,279 --> 01:10:06,350 It's not going to replace loop 288 loop. We're going to 1435 01:10:06,350 --> 01:10:09,199 will stay as it is will be still be named loop 288 1436 01:10:09,199 --> 01:10:13,279 Yes, sir. Okay, and the may have it is maintained by text 1437 01:10:13,279 --> 01:10:14,560 not which is 1438 01:10:15,199 --> 01:10:18,939 288 may have will be a city on Street. Okay, may Hill is a 1439 01:10:18,939 --> 01:10:20,000 city on Street. Yes 1440 01:10:22,399 --> 01:10:24,399 I want to make a comment 1441 01:10:25,279 --> 01:10:28,029 From my limited development experience one of the 1442 01:10:28,029 --> 01:10:30,060 advantages of us going ahead and doing this as as 1443 01:10:30,060 --> 01:10:32,199 properties are developed in the future 1444 01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:36,579 When these are shown then a developer has to make allotment 1445 01:10:36,579 --> 01:10:40,119 for it only the right-of-way, but also pay for their share 1446 01:10:40,119 --> 01:10:44,340 So it's advantageous to us as a city to look down the road 1447 01:10:44,340 --> 01:10:46,680 and and try to plan as much as we can 1448 01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:50,109 So as things develop it shifts some of the burden from city 1449 01:10:50,109 --> 01:10:51,880 to developers. Is that correct? 1450 01:10:51,880 --> 01:10:54,970 And that is very true and you know when we do the impact 1451 01:10:54,970 --> 01:10:55,359 fees 1452 01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:59,210 The impact fees are going to take care of some of the 1453 01:10:59,210 --> 01:11:02,600 payments that have to be made for the right-of-way, etc 1454 01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:06,029 So that would be the next step when we come back at you, 1455 01:11:06,029 --> 01:11:06,279 okay 1456 01:11:09,479 --> 01:11:14,119 Just took a bite Commissioner Rose. Thank you. Can can you 1457 01:11:14,119 --> 01:11:16,439 forgive me for any ignorance? 1458 01:11:16,439 --> 01:11:18,050 I am a new commissioner. So I haven't heard the 1459 01:11:18,050 --> 01:11:19,039 presentation before 1460 01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:21,399 kind of the first 1461 01:11:21,399 --> 01:11:24,550 Couple days looking at this. Can you help me out and talk 1462 01:11:24,550 --> 01:11:26,439 about how the future land use? 1463 01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:29,500 that's been approved by the city goes into the 1464 01:11:30,119 --> 01:11:32,119 development of the mobility plan 1465 01:11:32,199 --> 01:11:34,850 Absolutely. What we did is we generated a computer model. 1466 01:11:34,850 --> 01:11:37,079 The city's had water and wastewater models for years 1467 01:11:37,079 --> 01:11:39,539 They haven't had a transportation model a lot of times it's 1468 01:11:39,539 --> 01:11:40,159 been lying on the map 1469 01:11:40,159 --> 01:11:43,279 So one of the big tasks of this was to actually see are we 1470 01:11:43,279 --> 01:11:45,300 planning it appropriately are the number of lanes? 1471 01:11:45,300 --> 01:11:47,300 We're putting out there appropriately is the connectivity 1472 01:11:47,300 --> 01:11:47,600 appropriately 1473 01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:50,489 So we took the future land use map that you're looking at 1474 01:11:50,489 --> 01:11:52,319 and we populated into our community 1475 01:11:52,319 --> 01:11:54,720 Model to project how much traffic is going to be generated 1476 01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:57,199 based on what's approved in the comprehensive plan. I 1477 01:11:58,239 --> 01:12:01,659 Appreciate the answer. My specific concern is actually echo 1478 01:12:01,659 --> 01:12:05,420 ed by one of the individuals that emailed in is the Far East 1479 01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:10,720 Proposed primary art material which is looks like post oak 1480 01:12:11,359 --> 01:12:13,359 Accredits origination 1481 01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:15,720 dissects rural zoning 1482 01:12:16,279 --> 01:12:21,399 From just south of McKinney up just north of 380 1483 01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:24,699 That area on the future land use is all rural and I'm 1484 01:12:24,699 --> 01:12:27,960 having a tough time getting my mind around how a potential 1485 01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:28,960 six lane road 1486 01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:32,680 Would help continue the development or future land use of a 1487 01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:34,279 rural zoning 1488 01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:37,920 Right 1489 01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:39,970 One of the things to answer your question is we were 1490 01:12:39,970 --> 01:12:42,500 looking at a connectivity of connecting Sherman Road to 1491 01:12:42,500 --> 01:12:43,319 this to 1492 01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:45,720 Down to the south through post oak and one of the things we 1493 01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:46,880 're looking at was right away 1494 01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:49,810 And so we you're not going to go build a six lane road when 1495 01:12:49,810 --> 01:12:51,140 the demands not there 1496 01:12:51,279 --> 01:12:53,899 So what we were trying to obtain is the right away in that 1497 01:12:53,899 --> 01:12:55,600 area for the potential to build it 1498 01:12:56,199 --> 01:12:58,449 And if the right away is there you can only get right away 1499 01:12:58,449 --> 01:13:00,279 one time and a lot of times one of the comments in 1500 01:13:00,279 --> 01:13:02,159 The email was about bike 1501 01:13:02,159 --> 01:13:04,539 Accommodation that becomes a popular bike route and if we 1502 01:13:04,539 --> 01:13:05,439 get the right away 1503 01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:08,710 Of a primary material if it never develops that way because 1504 01:13:08,710 --> 01:13:09,960 this has to be studied every five years 1505 01:13:10,359 --> 01:13:12,729 And so we went with that approach. We are looking for 1506 01:13:12,729 --> 01:13:16,380 comments tonight. And so the approach of of north of say 3 1507 01:13:16,380 --> 01:13:17,600 80 or mingo 1508 01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:21,289 you're talking about if we need to reevaluate that as maybe 1509 01:13:21,289 --> 01:13:21,479 a 1510 01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:24,760 Secondary arterial four lane facilities a six lane facility 1511 01:13:25,319 --> 01:13:28,039 That is one of the comments we're looking for we got his 1512 01:13:28,039 --> 01:13:28,319 email 1513 01:13:28,319 --> 01:13:31,130 You know, we'd be interested in hearing the Commission's 1514 01:13:31,130 --> 01:13:32,720 opinion on that particular roadway 1515 01:13:33,359 --> 01:13:37,359 So well, I'll make a comment about it. I think it's very 1516 01:13:37,359 --> 01:13:38,640 advantageous 1517 01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:42,380 I'd much rather see us if it's reasonable to 1518 01:13:43,439 --> 01:13:46,439 Plan for larger roads rather than smaller roads 1519 01:13:46,439 --> 01:13:49,369 I think we all have experienced enough of the issues that 1520 01:13:49,369 --> 01:13:52,250 we currently have in our city with smaller roads and the 1521 01:13:52,250 --> 01:13:53,319 inability to get around 1522 01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:56,960 When you go over east of here to the fast growth areas 1523 01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:00,119 little elm Frisco and you drive out there and there's four 1524 01:14:00,119 --> 01:14:00,479 and six 1525 01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:03,310 Lane roads and you can just take off and go from one side 1526 01:14:03,310 --> 01:14:04,399 of town to the other 1527 01:14:04,399 --> 01:14:07,689 I would love to see that being here in our city of Denton 1528 01:14:07,689 --> 01:14:09,199 to be able to get around 1529 01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:11,970 Versus what we currently have of trying to keep everything 1530 01:14:11,970 --> 01:14:15,119 small and then we don't have the option to come back later 1531 01:14:15,119 --> 01:14:16,079 on and make 1532 01:14:16,079 --> 01:14:19,590 The roads larger so I'm supporting maybe being a little 1533 01:14:19,590 --> 01:14:22,920 wider a more right away and a little more flexibility than 1534 01:14:23,399 --> 01:14:25,399 smaller for future growth 1535 01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:29,000 Commissioner Roselle, I appreciate your insight and 1536 01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:31,760 understanding the right away the potential to move greater 1537 01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:32,560 the future land 1538 01:14:33,319 --> 01:14:36,390 Map is for the next 15 years, so I'm not sure what's gonna 1539 01:14:36,390 --> 01:14:38,000 grow to the half the next 15 years 1540 01:14:38,199 --> 01:14:41,270 But I guess in trying to think about forward-thinking 1541 01:14:41,270 --> 01:14:44,640 zoning if we have on the books and approval for a primary 1542 01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:45,359 arterial 1543 01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:47,760 specifically just south of McKinney 1544 01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:50,640 Where I know last board meeting or commission meeting 1545 01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:52,340 someone came in and wanted to put a tracked home 1546 01:14:52,340 --> 01:14:54,439 neighborhood that's zoned as rural 1547 01:14:54,439 --> 01:14:57,960 But we had it we rezoned it for it in our for I'm wondering 1548 01:14:57,960 --> 01:14:59,960 if it sets a dangerous precedent that when he comes back 1549 01:14:59,960 --> 01:15:00,399 for plating 1550 01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:03,380 Although the the platyp potentially doesn't line up with 1551 01:15:03,380 --> 01:15:06,199 the world's zoning what we already have in the books of 1552 01:15:06,199 --> 01:15:07,119 primary arterial 1553 01:15:07,119 --> 01:15:10,119 So it's very hard for us to defend the future land use of 1554 01:15:10,119 --> 01:15:12,279 being rural if we have in the books that we're planning 1555 01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:15,039 In the next so many years that well, it's going to be six 1556 01:15:15,039 --> 01:15:15,760 lines anyways 1557 01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,380 Let's go ahead and approve this in our four subdivision. 1558 01:15:18,380 --> 01:15:21,630 Well now we've lost the integrity of the rule zoning in a 1559 01:15:21,630 --> 01:15:22,199 whole 1560 01:15:22,199 --> 01:15:24,199 So I understand what you're saying about 1561 01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:26,880 Owning that right away that at the first time 1562 01:15:27,319 --> 01:15:29,770 But I'm also it seems in direct conflict with what we're 1563 01:15:29,770 --> 01:15:31,600 wanting to do for the next 30 years 1564 01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:36,079 Our next 15 years 2030 in that rural development 1565 01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:40,800 Commissioner Taylor 1566 01:15:45,039 --> 01:15:47,119 Add to your both of your comments 1567 01:15:48,119 --> 01:15:50,119 Often the rural 1568 01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:54,029 Use is more of a placeholder. It's not so much that it is 1569 01:15:54,029 --> 01:15:55,500 intended to be preserved 1570 01:15:56,359 --> 01:15:58,359 perpetually in a rural use 1571 01:15:58,359 --> 01:16:01,680 But it is that in the next 10 to 20 years we expect it to 1572 01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:03,000 stay rural in character 1573 01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:06,180 And so I don't think that we would generally prevent 1574 01:16:06,180 --> 01:16:08,359 development in those areas 1575 01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:11,680 But we wouldn't necessarily plan for a lot of intensive 1576 01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:14,000 development, you know up off of 1577 01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:17,520 Up, you know, just south of the dam or in areas like that 1578 01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:21,100 So I think I think it's more like for for that 20 year 1579 01:16:21,100 --> 01:16:23,640 period not that we must preserve this as rural 1580 01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:26,399 Right, but just that we don't expect 1581 01:16:27,079 --> 01:16:29,850 the same intensity of development there as we might have 1582 01:16:29,850 --> 01:16:33,199 down off Ryan Road or something like that and 1583 01:16:34,319 --> 01:16:37,760 As far as I do agree with the chair on 1584 01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:40,640 the importance of getting 1585 01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:45,079 The plan laid out and making sure that we can get those 1586 01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:49,270 The right-of-way the dedication and so forth as we need it. 1587 01:16:49,270 --> 01:16:52,319 I do have specific concerns about post oak 1588 01:16:52,319 --> 01:16:56,000 I think that you know a better alignment would probably be 1589 01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:56,760 Cooper Creek 1590 01:16:57,039 --> 01:17:00,229 We don't need a large arterial next to an area that one of 1591 01:17:00,229 --> 01:17:02,119 the few areas that will be permanently 1592 01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:06,140 Low use low intensity use, you know, it's a large 1593 01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:10,810 Can floodplain nature preserve it's never going to have a 1594 01:17:10,810 --> 01:17:13,000 high traffic demand in that area 1595 01:17:13,119 --> 01:17:16,760 If we move that over half a mile or so to the Cooper Creek 1596 01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:19,520 which extends the Mayhill arterial 1597 01:17:20,279 --> 01:17:23,079 You know that that provides the parallel connectivity and 1598 01:17:23,079 --> 01:17:25,760 and then you can have nice little 1599 01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:29,210 Neighborhoods on collectors branching off and they can back 1600 01:17:29,210 --> 01:17:30,760 up to the nature preserve 1601 01:17:31,319 --> 01:17:34,479 Instead of having a large road that might have a negative 1602 01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:37,720 impact along the the nature preserve there. I 1603 01:17:39,239 --> 01:17:41,960 Also, I've made this comment a few a few times in the past 1604 01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:44,640 and I'll make it again tonight I 1605 01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:47,800 there seem to be a 1606 01:17:48,119 --> 01:17:52,470 lot a lot of very variance in how many roads and how 1607 01:17:52,470 --> 01:17:54,960 intensive the roads are and 1608 01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:59,060 What areas have a lot of collectors and what areas seem to 1609 01:17:59,060 --> 01:18:01,319 have a tight grid of arterials? 1610 01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:03,939 You know, so some of this is master plan like down to the 1611 01:18:03,939 --> 01:18:06,920 southwest. That's all master plan. You can't do much 1612 01:18:07,640 --> 01:18:09,640 to the northwest 1613 01:18:10,199 --> 01:18:12,800 to my knowledge none of that is master planned and 1614 01:18:13,359 --> 01:18:17,039 there's a I think a quarter mile a grid there of collectors 1615 01:18:17,039 --> 01:18:20,560 and arterials between is that Ganser and 1616 01:18:21,119 --> 01:18:24,199 The extension of you know right in that area near crumb 1617 01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:27,609 So that's that's one of the kind of most densely laid out 1618 01:18:27,609 --> 01:18:29,460 and none of those roads exist 1619 01:18:29,880 --> 01:18:33,840 So we're planning for eight new roads in basically a one 1620 01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:35,880 mile by one mile square area 1621 01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:39,840 You know and then we have if you move over just due north 1622 01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:42,119 you have gaps some of that's due to Creek 1623 01:18:42,119 --> 01:18:45,539 But it's hard to tell it on this map on the north Bonnie Br 1624 01:18:45,539 --> 01:18:46,039 ay and 1625 01:18:46,619 --> 01:18:48,619 Then we have large areas 1626 01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:52,279 To the northeast where there's just nothing at all 1627 01:18:52,279 --> 01:18:55,770 There's two miles with a mile wide area with no roads and I 1628 01:18:55,770 --> 01:18:58,100 understand there is a creek in there 1629 01:18:59,079 --> 01:19:01,449 And it's not all in the city yet, but we have other roads 1630 01:19:01,449 --> 01:19:03,960 that are outside of city limits indicated 1631 01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:06,720 so I worry about the 1632 01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:11,359 variability in road density and you know layout 1633 01:19:12,199 --> 01:19:14,199 In our previous conversations. I was told that 1634 01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:16,920 basically an engineer 1635 01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:20,310 different engineers took different quadrants of the city 1636 01:19:20,310 --> 01:19:20,560 and 1637 01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:24,659 Just kind of looked at things like gas wells and creeks and 1638 01:19:24,659 --> 01:19:26,800 planned a section of the city 1639 01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:31,310 But it seems like there there isn't a lot of consistency in 1640 01:19:31,310 --> 01:19:32,920 how the got laid out 1641 01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:37,560 Let me clarify that it was not different engineers 1642 01:19:38,359 --> 01:19:41,850 What we did was we divided the city into four different 1643 01:19:41,850 --> 01:19:45,270 quadrants the same group looked at it. It included the 1644 01:19:45,270 --> 01:19:46,239 traffic engineer 1645 01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:48,960 people from engineering 1646 01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:50,960 our traffic superintendent 1647 01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:55,050 People went out drove around and a lot of these guys are 1648 01:19:55,050 --> 01:19:56,720 already out on the town all the time 1649 01:19:57,039 --> 01:20:00,619 So they know where we have traffic issues and where we have 1650 01:20:00,619 --> 01:20:01,720 connectivity issues 1651 01:20:02,039 --> 01:20:06,850 So that data came from them, which is a field data that was 1652 01:20:06,850 --> 01:20:07,560 then 1653 01:20:08,279 --> 01:20:10,279 You know wetted with the model also 1654 01:20:11,119 --> 01:20:14,489 When we ran the model, so that's how the overall model came 1655 01:20:14,489 --> 01:20:15,000 about 1656 01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:21,500 You know to answer one question for you it is not really a 1657 01:20:21,500 --> 01:20:22,600 15 year plan 1658 01:20:23,039 --> 01:20:27,239 This is a built out condition based on the land use 1659 01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:31,050 That has been done by your consultant for the comp plan 1660 01:20:31,050 --> 01:20:34,840 amendment. So it takes that fully developed condition 1661 01:20:35,279 --> 01:20:37,399 So the traffic generation that you see 1662 01:20:38,319 --> 01:20:40,840 That was done from the model is for the full built out 1663 01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:41,600 condition 1664 01:20:42,239 --> 01:20:43,520 Be that 1665 01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:44,720 2050 1666 01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:46,720 2070 2100 1667 01:20:47,039 --> 01:20:50,890 Based on that land use so there is enough traffic that is 1668 01:20:50,890 --> 01:20:53,840 generated that's coming on that road 1669 01:20:54,439 --> 01:20:58,159 That it could be sustained by a secondary arterial 1670 01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:02,020 But as you know the desire was to keep the primary arterial 1671 01:21:02,020 --> 01:21:04,960 by staff also so that we have the right away 1672 01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:08,079 In case we need to build a secondary primary arterial there 1673 01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:10,680 Thank you 1674 01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:15,180 The thought process behind road that has gotten the comment 1675 01:21:15,180 --> 01:21:16,840 in email is like I said 1676 01:21:16,840 --> 01:21:19,840 We can only get right away one time and so our thought is 1677 01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:21,840 is if that did say of rural contents 1678 01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:24,659 And you want to have nice bar ditches and some other stuff 1679 01:21:24,659 --> 01:21:27,439 to make it kind of that rural feel even if you were right 1680 01:21:27,439 --> 01:21:29,460 In the road it takes a little bit more right away to do 1681 01:21:29,460 --> 01:21:29,720 that 1682 01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:32,489 So even we're unfortunate it's called a principal arterial 1683 01:21:32,489 --> 01:21:35,159 primary to mainly to preserve the right away. It's not 1684 01:21:35,159 --> 01:21:35,720 necessary 1685 01:21:35,720 --> 01:21:38,699 There's no plan to build that road of six lanes right now, 1686 01:21:38,699 --> 01:21:40,920 but I mean like I said the the comment of maybe going over 1687 01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:41,039 to 1688 01:21:41,039 --> 01:21:44,289 Cooper Creek the idea is we want to connect the goal was to 1689 01:21:44,289 --> 01:21:46,600 connect mingo somehow to Sherman and 1690 01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:49,880 That alignment hasn't actually been studied yet 1691 01:21:50,239 --> 01:21:52,800 So we looked at a map and this is what we came up with on 1692 01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:53,399 our first stab 1693 01:21:53,399 --> 01:21:55,770 But there are other alternatives that should be evaluated 1694 01:21:55,770 --> 01:21:59,159 deeper, but it can be moved in the alignment routing study 1695 01:21:59,159 --> 01:22:01,159 The plan is to try to get a connection 1696 01:22:02,199 --> 01:22:06,550 Thank you before I recognize Commissioner does we're about 1697 01:22:06,550 --> 01:22:08,760 five minutes past when we're supposed to start 1698 01:22:08,760 --> 01:22:12,550 I think we'll go up to about another five minutes about 640 1699 01:22:12,550 --> 01:22:15,319 and then we will have to cut this off and take it back up 1700 01:22:15,319 --> 01:22:18,189 So Commissioner Dudowitz. Yeah. Thank you chair. I think 1701 01:22:18,189 --> 01:22:19,680 again. This is another reason for 1702 01:22:20,479 --> 01:22:23,880 Must be delaying and looking at this in more detail because 1703 01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:27,020 again this mayhill issue is a major art 1704 01:22:27,159 --> 01:22:30,680 It's going to be what a major tear arterial and it dead 1705 01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:34,600 ends on 380 and then it just north of that where Cooper 1706 01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:35,159 Creek starts 1707 01:22:35,159 --> 01:22:36,119 it's a 1708 01:22:36,119 --> 01:22:40,079 Secondary and that would be a primary look at taking that 1709 01:22:40,079 --> 01:22:42,840 road right straight up and make it the same six or two four 1710 01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:43,159 to six 1711 01:22:43,159 --> 01:22:44,479 lanes 1712 01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:47,840 It dead ends right at 380 and Cooper Creek right now is a 1713 01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:49,500 two-lane country bumpkin Road 1714 01:22:49,500 --> 01:22:52,119 Which is just right there is north of that intersection 1715 01:22:52,239 --> 01:22:55,460 So I mean that's you know looking at that post oak issue 1716 01:22:55,460 --> 01:22:58,239 versus the Copper Creek. I I think 1717 01:22:58,600 --> 01:23:01,229 That makes more sense. But as we get into the details of 1718 01:23:01,229 --> 01:23:02,800 this we're picking up these little things 1719 01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:05,569 We never have had the ability to get into the to some of 1720 01:23:05,569 --> 01:23:07,079 these things even though they're conceptual 1721 01:23:07,199 --> 01:23:10,140 To give feedback to you to consider other alternatives 1722 01:23:13,119 --> 01:23:15,119 Anybody else 1723 01:23:15,560 --> 01:23:17,560 I'm gonna make a final comment 1724 01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:21,369 From my understanding what most of these are when we have 1725 01:23:21,369 --> 01:23:24,680 the the names whether they're primary arterial sector 1726 01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:27,199 We're mostly talking about the right away 1727 01:23:28,119 --> 01:23:31,159 And the size that we're taking and I know some of our 1728 01:23:31,800 --> 01:23:34,659 New commissioners weren't here for the cross sections that 1729 01:23:34,659 --> 01:23:37,680 were presented probably a couple two three months ago 1730 01:23:38,159 --> 01:23:41,010 Where you all came and made a number of different cross 1731 01:23:41,010 --> 01:23:44,539 sections of you could have a two-lane road or a three-lane 1732 01:23:44,539 --> 01:23:44,960 road 1733 01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:47,760 some of the size of the sidewalks 1734 01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:51,319 Bike lanes whether they were included in the street or 1735 01:23:51,319 --> 01:23:55,109 whether they were outside the street and so really rather 1736 01:23:55,109 --> 01:23:55,520 than 1737 01:23:56,239 --> 01:23:58,119 at least my 1738 01:23:58,119 --> 01:24:01,340 Interpretation and comment is it mostly they're not 1739 01:24:01,340 --> 01:24:04,960 designing streets that this is going to be a six-lane road 1740 01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:09,279 It could be but mostly what we're doing is taking a certain 1741 01:24:09,279 --> 01:24:11,039 amount size right away 1742 01:24:11,399 --> 01:24:14,810 Or what those sections can be and that the appropriate time 1743 01:24:14,810 --> 01:24:17,800 in the future as the city continues to develop 1744 01:24:18,319 --> 01:24:20,380 the engineering department will then make those 1745 01:24:21,319 --> 01:24:24,539 design criteria of whether it's a four-lane road six-lane 1746 01:24:24,539 --> 01:24:24,960 road 1747 01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:29,180 Pending what the right away is is that a fair assessment of 1748 01:24:29,180 --> 01:24:29,560 anywhere? 1749 01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:31,930 You're trying to go pretty much on track and one of the 1750 01:24:31,930 --> 01:24:32,960 reason we want to build a model 1751 01:24:32,960 --> 01:24:35,329 So when development occurs in the rural area we can confirm 1752 01:24:35,329 --> 01:24:37,760 and actually put the development that's coming in and 1753 01:24:38,079 --> 01:24:40,560 Understand whether it should be the six line or four lane, 1754 01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:43,000 but have we know the right away right now 1755 01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:45,380 We're taking our our best steps of preserving the right 1756 01:24:45,380 --> 01:24:47,720 away that we need great. We feel like we need 1757 01:24:48,319 --> 01:24:50,800 So really this isn't actually saying that these roads are 1758 01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:52,000 going to be a six-lane road 1759 01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:54,609 We're just talking about the right away that we're taking 1760 01:24:54,609 --> 01:24:55,800 that we could do up to that 1761 01:24:56,279 --> 01:24:58,649 Amount and then the design comes at some point in the 1762 01:24:58,649 --> 01:24:58,960 future 1763 01:25:00,319 --> 01:25:02,220 Well, I think to answer your question is like definitely 1764 01:25:02,220 --> 01:25:03,319 the fringes is true 1765 01:25:03,319 --> 01:25:05,210 But if a development was to come in they would look at this 1766 01:25:05,210 --> 01:25:05,500 our map 1767 01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:08,909 But this is a living document and if someone decides to 1768 01:25:08,909 --> 01:25:10,039 analyze at that time 1769 01:25:10,079 --> 01:25:12,470 They have the right to change whether it's a four or six 1770 01:25:12,470 --> 01:25:15,760 lane based on whatever study that they do correct 1771 01:25:16,199 --> 01:25:18,600 Just like what we're doing tonight when we look at this we 1772 01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:21,770 have several things from old mobility plans that are being 1773 01:25:21,770 --> 01:25:22,279 removed 1774 01:25:22,680 --> 01:25:25,109 And now I've been determined they were on the map. We no 1775 01:25:25,109 --> 01:25:25,960 longer need them 1776 01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:28,789 And so that's the same thing that will ultimately happen 1777 01:25:28,789 --> 01:25:32,079 with this at some point in the future and other commissions 1778 01:25:32,079 --> 01:25:32,560 look at this down 1779 01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:35,079 The road. Yeah, we had several downgrades 1780 01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:38,949 That we have downgraded because we the development changed 1781 01:25:38,949 --> 01:25:40,960 from what we anticipated or what was anticipated 1782 01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:43,199 Great 1783 01:25:43,199 --> 01:25:46,609 Anybody else before we wrap up Commissioner Hesford? I 1784 01:25:46,609 --> 01:25:47,600 would like to request 1785 01:25:48,319 --> 01:25:52,210 Can I get something to read regarding that process of right 1786 01:25:52,210 --> 01:25:53,000 away? 1787 01:25:53,479 --> 01:25:56,029 That sort of thing how that works. I'm not familiar with 1788 01:25:56,029 --> 01:25:56,960 that mechanism 1789 01:25:57,880 --> 01:26:01,479 So just a general overview how over right away is work is 1790 01:26:01,479 --> 01:26:01,680 it? 1791 01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:06,020 Okay, so please sure 1792 01:26:07,800 --> 01:26:11,199 It's 640 and we're going to adjourn the 1793 01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:14,880 The work session and reconvene in council chambers 1794 01:26:33,319 --> 01:26:36,420 Good evening and welcome to the October 21st 1795 01:26:37,039 --> 01:26:40,680 2015 planning and zoning meeting for the city of Denton 1796 01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:43,000 It is 645 1797 01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:46,390 This meeting has been duly posted and we have a quorum 1798 01:26:46,390 --> 01:26:47,039 present 1799 01:26:47,560 --> 01:26:50,720 Call the meeting to order and we will begin with our pledge 1800 01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:53,319 to the US flag followed by the Texas flag 1801 01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:13,000 The 1802 01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:37,840 First item on our agenda tonight is the approval of the 1803 01:27:37,840 --> 01:27:38,720 minutes 1804 01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:43,000 We have a motion request to speak 1805 01:27:45,159 --> 01:27:47,460 Chair I had a couple of corrections. I wanted to make the 1806 01:27:47,460 --> 01:27:48,640 minutes please if I could 1807 01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:53,119 Commissioner Bruegel, thank you, sir on page three 1808 01:27:53,920 --> 01:27:55,399 line 1809 01:27:55,399 --> 01:27:57,399 five 1810 01:27:57,399 --> 01:27:59,199 There's 1811 01:27:59,199 --> 01:28:02,619 The word not is missing. So for example, it said on the 1812 01:28:02,619 --> 01:28:03,159 plaque 1813 01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:05,680 It's a 1814 01:28:06,199 --> 01:28:09,689 The word not is missing. So for example, it said on the 1815 01:28:09,689 --> 01:28:13,109 plat in a grayed-out color to indicate the neighboring 1816 01:28:13,109 --> 01:28:13,600 guess 1817 01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:16,710 Well, she stated she did see that on this plat. I did 1818 01:28:16,710 --> 01:28:18,850 actually not see that on that plot. That's my first 1819 01:28:18,850 --> 01:28:19,159 correction 1820 01:28:19,479 --> 01:28:21,479 My second one 1821 01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:23,680 Is I believe on page nine? 1822 01:28:24,760 --> 01:28:26,239 Yeah 1823 01:28:26,239 --> 01:28:28,239 on page nine 1824 01:28:28,399 --> 01:28:31,970 After lines 26 and 27. I would like it if there could be 1825 01:28:31,970 --> 01:28:33,439 something added to the minutes 1826 01:28:34,760 --> 01:28:38,199 As we were looking at the believe it was a rezone request 1827 01:28:38,199 --> 01:28:40,960 for from rural to NR for and there was 1828 01:28:41,319 --> 01:28:43,840 someone who came to the meeting to talk about there was a 1829 01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:45,800 gas pipeline that went through there and 1830 01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:48,930 Just brought up some more questions. What I wanted to get 1831 01:28:48,930 --> 01:28:51,619 added to the minutes, please was that I made 1832 01:28:52,199 --> 01:28:54,090 Clarification to the rest of the Commission that what we 1833 01:28:54,090 --> 01:28:58,279 were doing was looking specifically at a rezone request and 1834 01:28:58,279 --> 01:28:59,039 not the 1835 01:28:59,960 --> 01:29:01,159 the 1836 01:29:01,159 --> 01:29:04,409 Site plan that had been presented to us because that gas 1837 01:29:04,409 --> 01:29:07,260 pipeline at that point would come into play as we're 1838 01:29:07,260 --> 01:29:08,000 looking at that 1839 01:29:08,000 --> 01:29:10,770 And I just think that was an important omission that should 1840 01:29:10,770 --> 01:29:12,140 be reincluded. Thank you 1841 01:29:16,039 --> 01:29:19,600 Commissioner Daddowitz, thank you chair. There's an 1842 01:29:20,840 --> 01:29:25,180 Missing element to my discussion page two lines 29 1843 01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:30,399 through 33 and when and subsequently 34 to 38 1844 01:29:31,239 --> 01:29:32,640 when I asked 1845 01:29:32,640 --> 01:29:36,380 Staff Earl Escobar with regard to do does anyone on staff 1846 01:29:36,380 --> 01:29:39,399 have a liaison relationship with text on? 1847 01:29:39,800 --> 01:29:42,640 The answer I believe was no and that is missing here 1848 01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:45,930 And then I suggested that we would have a proposed future 1849 01:29:45,930 --> 01:29:48,840 meeting possibility with text out to understand 1850 01:29:49,079 --> 01:29:52,409 their time and development of various roads within our jur 1851 01:29:52,409 --> 01:29:54,520 ors both in our area, especially 1852 01:29:56,760 --> 01:30:00,039 Expansion of Teasley and that's not in this 1853 01:30:01,319 --> 01:30:03,909 So if we can review that the tapes or whatever I believe 1854 01:30:03,909 --> 01:30:07,949 that that was a lengthy discussion, but it's not in the 1855 01:30:07,949 --> 01:30:08,600 minutes 1856 01:30:09,399 --> 01:30:11,779 Just a clarification both Commissioner Daddowitz and 1857 01:30:11,779 --> 01:30:12,960 Commissioner Bruegel 1858 01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:15,750 Are you all comfortable with staff making the corrections 1859 01:30:15,750 --> 01:30:17,279 to minutes with your comments? 1860 01:30:17,279 --> 01:30:19,460 Or do you want to table this until those corrections are 1861 01:30:19,460 --> 01:30:21,500 made to bring it back since those are fairly lengthy 1862 01:30:21,500 --> 01:30:22,600 comments on both of those 1863 01:30:22,600 --> 01:30:25,079 Items regarding my comments. I'm comfortable with that. I 1864 01:30:25,079 --> 01:30:26,859 'll leave it to you Commissioner Daddowitz 1865 01:30:27,520 --> 01:30:30,470 The having staff make the corrections. Yes, I'll be 1866 01:30:30,470 --> 01:30:32,359 comfortable with that. Okay 1867 01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:38,520 In that request to speak 1868 01:30:39,159 --> 01:30:42,630 Commissioner Taylor with those two corrections. I move we 1869 01:30:42,630 --> 01:30:45,899 approve the minutes for our last meeting 1870 01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:49,000 Commissioner Rizel, I'll second that 1871 01:30:51,159 --> 01:30:54,079 The first and second call for a vote on the board 1872 01:30:57,520 --> 01:30:59,520 I 1873 01:31:04,199 --> 01:31:10,279 Motion carries 7-0 move us to our consent agenda 1874 01:31:18,640 --> 01:31:20,640 Chair would entertain a motion 1875 01:31:21,239 --> 01:31:24,239 Commissioner Duddlewood's I move to approve 1876 01:31:25,039 --> 01:31:27,279 The consent agenda as posted 1877 01:31:29,359 --> 01:31:33,520 Commissioner Beck I second the motion have a first and a 1878 01:31:33,520 --> 01:31:35,760 second and call for vote on the board 1879 01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:48,279 The motion carries 7-0 1880 01:31:50,800 --> 01:31:54,159 Moves us to item 4 items for individual consideration 1881 01:31:55,039 --> 01:31:57,039 I 1882 01:32:04,159 --> 01:32:08,560 Correct turn this over to an offer introduction of this 1883 01:32:08,560 --> 01:32:09,079 item today 1884 01:32:11,039 --> 01:32:14,119 Thank You chair chairperson strange if you recall at the 1885 01:32:14,119 --> 01:32:17,159 last meeting the PNC had requested that an item be 1886 01:32:17,640 --> 01:32:20,409 Placed on the agenda for individual consideration to act on 1887 01:32:20,409 --> 01:32:23,300 creation of a subcommittee in order to evaluate city 1888 01:32:23,300 --> 01:32:24,520 initiated rezoning 1889 01:32:25,039 --> 01:32:27,880 That would be in conformance with the comp plan comp plan 1890 01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:28,520 2030 1891 01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:31,350 That being said this item is before you to nominate and 1892 01:32:31,350 --> 01:32:34,399 appoint members from this commission to serve on this sub 1893 01:32:34,399 --> 01:32:35,079 committee 1894 01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:40,960 Clarification how many members are we going to be? 1895 01:32:44,840 --> 01:32:46,840 Discretionary up to you 1896 01:32:49,560 --> 01:32:52,380 You have two motions the first motion would be for the 1897 01:32:52,380 --> 01:32:55,600 creation the second motion would be for the nomination in 1898 01:32:55,600 --> 01:32:56,079 the election 1899 01:32:56,880 --> 01:33:00,010 The request was the Commissioner Tyler. Thank you. Could we 1900 01:33:00,010 --> 01:33:01,840 get a little further clarification on? 1901 01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:06,880 This is the first time since I've been on this body that we 1902 01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:07,680 formed a subcommittee 1903 01:33:07,680 --> 01:33:10,239 So we'd have a mode just a motion to create a subcommittee 1904 01:33:10,239 --> 01:33:12,479 and then open the floor to nominations 1905 01:33:12,720 --> 01:33:15,899 Take nominations and then ratify those nominations. So that 1906 01:33:15,899 --> 01:33:18,520 's that's correct. There's no written procedure in our 1907 01:33:18,520 --> 01:33:19,199 charter or 1908 01:33:20,159 --> 01:33:23,680 Administrative code provision, but we do adopt the Roberts 1909 01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:26,359 rules of procedure and those rules 1910 01:33:26,680 --> 01:33:29,819 Allow the PNC to establish a subcommittee for these 1911 01:33:29,819 --> 01:33:33,199 purposes. There is no rule concerning how many 1912 01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:35,920 nominations you may make 1913 01:33:36,119 --> 01:33:38,560 But that's the way that we'll probably do it tonight 1914 01:33:38,560 --> 01:33:41,279 we'll just go ahead and do the motion whether or not you 1915 01:33:41,279 --> 01:33:42,600 want it first created and 1916 01:33:43,239 --> 01:33:45,829 That would be voted on and then we would go to an open 1917 01:33:45,829 --> 01:33:47,720 discussion of nominations 1918 01:33:50,479 --> 01:33:53,079 Commissioner Donald Woods within the nomination process 1919 01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:56,640 Can commissioners suggest that they would love to be on 1920 01:33:56,640 --> 01:34:00,039 that or like to be on that? So it helps the process 1921 01:34:00,199 --> 01:34:02,960 Yes, now you I heard you indicate that there's no set 1922 01:34:02,960 --> 01:34:03,439 number 1923 01:34:03,960 --> 01:34:07,470 No, but I would recommend I think for the gas we had 1924 01:34:07,470 --> 01:34:11,640 usually two people that would go and work together 1925 01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:15,869 You know, maybe three if if you're worried about a tie 1926 01:34:15,869 --> 01:34:17,560 breaker or whatever 1927 01:34:19,840 --> 01:34:22,210 That's my recommendation to you I would have fewer rather 1928 01:34:22,210 --> 01:34:23,000 than more 1929 01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:27,010 They with staffs input chair would entertain a motion if we 1930 01:34:27,010 --> 01:34:30,199 want to look at creating the subcommittee first 1931 01:34:31,920 --> 01:34:33,920 Commissioner Taylor I 1932 01:34:34,000 --> 01:34:36,550 Move that we create a subcommittee in order to evaluate 1933 01:34:36,550 --> 01:34:39,479 city initiated rezoning in conformance with the Denton plan 1934 01:34:39,479 --> 01:34:40,319 2030 1935 01:34:43,319 --> 01:34:45,319 Commissioner Dudley's I second the motion 1936 01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:48,369 Have a first and a second and we'll call for a vote on the 1937 01:34:48,369 --> 01:34:48,760 board 1938 01:34:49,680 --> 01:34:51,680 I 1939 01:34:56,119 --> 01:35:00,470 That motion carries 7-0 since we have now created a sub 1940 01:35:00,470 --> 01:35:02,039 committee 1941 01:35:04,359 --> 01:35:07,399 We'll now discuss how many members are going to serve 1942 01:35:09,079 --> 01:35:11,869 Commissioner Rozelle, thank you chair. I was wondering if 1943 01:35:11,869 --> 01:35:15,470 it's possible or allowed by a show of hands to see who 1944 01:35:15,470 --> 01:35:16,199 would be 1945 01:35:17,520 --> 01:35:19,899 Wanting to serve in this subcommittee just so we know where 1946 01:35:19,899 --> 01:35:22,279 nominations can maybe be be levied 1947 01:35:22,279 --> 01:35:24,859 Is that possible? Can I request a show of hands if he would 1948 01:35:24,859 --> 01:35:27,520 be interested in the subcommittee then? Sure 1949 01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:30,800 Show hands who'd like to serve 1950 01:35:36,319 --> 01:35:38,689 Commissioner was L. Are you not interested because I'm I'm 1951 01:35:38,689 --> 01:35:39,960 just kind of curious 1952 01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:42,359 I think you've brought up some really good points about 1953 01:35:42,359 --> 01:35:46,039 some some of the rural. No, I sincerely do 1954 01:35:46,039 --> 01:35:47,760 I think you brought up some very good points in your time 1955 01:35:47,760 --> 01:35:49,699 on the Commission. Would you be interested in serving as 1956 01:35:49,699 --> 01:35:49,920 well? 1957 01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:52,960 Sure, yes 1958 01:35:53,119 --> 01:35:55,119 I'm nominating you 1959 01:36:00,840 --> 01:36:03,829 Okay, did we decide the number I was gonna ask I think 1960 01:36:03,829 --> 01:36:07,380 before we do the nominations the chair would like to get 1961 01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:12,560 Motion or suggestion of the number of persons to serve to 1962 01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:13,939 form in this committee 1963 01:36:14,960 --> 01:36:16,960 Subcommittee 1964 01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:22,619 Commissioner Dudowitz I would recommend that we have three 1965 01:36:26,439 --> 01:36:27,569 You make an emotion the motion would be that we create a 1966 01:36:27,569 --> 01:36:32,920 subcommittee with three members of this commission, okay 1967 01:36:36,640 --> 01:36:39,920 Commissioner Hudson second the motion. Okay. We have a 1968 01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:42,680 motion on the floor to have three members appointed to the 1969 01:36:42,680 --> 01:36:43,479 subcommittee 1970 01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:48,970 Here we will we have a first and a second we will call for 1971 01:36:48,970 --> 01:36:50,880 a vote on the board 1972 01:36:59,279 --> 01:37:01,279 The motion carries 7-0 1973 01:37:04,520 --> 01:37:07,560 Chair is now going to open it for nominations 1974 01:37:08,560 --> 01:37:10,560 for three members to serve 1975 01:37:11,039 --> 01:37:14,279 Would it be as a clarification from staff? Would it be? 1976 01:37:15,359 --> 01:37:17,729 More appropriate to serve. I mean it's to nominate three 1977 01:37:17,729 --> 01:37:20,800 people at one time or just to nominate them one at a time. 1978 01:37:20,800 --> 01:37:21,000 I 1979 01:37:21,720 --> 01:37:24,609 Think it's more appropriate to do it one at a time. We'll 1980 01:37:24,609 --> 01:37:25,760 do it one at a time 1981 01:37:27,039 --> 01:37:29,319 Commissioner Dudowitz, I I believe my 1982 01:37:30,439 --> 01:37:32,439 That's leftover 1983 01:37:32,479 --> 01:37:36,239 from my previous request to speak so okay 1984 01:37:37,680 --> 01:37:39,500 Commissioner Brigham. Okay. Well, I was gonna make three 1985 01:37:39,500 --> 01:37:42,319 nominations, but I'll just do them one at a time. I 1986 01:37:43,000 --> 01:37:45,960 Would like to nominate Commissioner Taylor for the sub 1987 01:37:45,960 --> 01:37:48,920 committee. I think this this was his initiative. I think he 1988 01:37:48,920 --> 01:37:50,000 's got a great eye for it 1989 01:37:50,000 --> 01:37:54,060 He's got a good attention to detail and it could be a great 1990 01:37:54,060 --> 01:37:54,359 fit 1991 01:37:55,640 --> 01:37:57,640 Thank You Commissioner 1992 01:37:59,159 --> 01:38:01,159 Will we do these as a 1993 01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:04,600 Doom individually then what are these as a motion in a 1994 01:38:04,600 --> 01:38:06,920 second and then call for a vote on nominations? 1995 01:38:07,159 --> 01:38:10,079 We can in fact that's more clear on the record 1996 01:38:10,119 --> 01:38:12,899 But I'm going to leave it up to you whether or not you want 1997 01:38:12,899 --> 01:38:15,060 to get three and then just move on the three 1998 01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:17,760 Okay, as long as you have a consensus 1999 01:38:22,399 --> 01:38:26,189 I'll take the nomination for another subcommittee member to 2000 01:38:26,189 --> 01:38:26,680 serve 2001 01:38:29,079 --> 01:38:32,869 Commissioner Taylor. Thank you chair. I would nominate 2002 01:38:32,869 --> 01:38:34,680 Commissioner Dudowitz to serve as well 2003 01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:38,840 Thank you 2004 01:38:40,119 --> 01:38:42,529 Commissioner Brigham and I would also like to nominate 2005 01:38:42,529 --> 01:38:45,520 Commissioner Roselle. I think in his time on P&Z 2006 01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:47,960 He's brought up some really good points about future land 2007 01:38:47,960 --> 01:38:50,579 use. I think you'd be a good fit. Thank you 2008 01:38:52,800 --> 01:38:54,800 We have three members nominated 2009 01:38:54,880 --> 01:38:57,430 Does anybody have another member that they would like to 2010 01:38:57,430 --> 01:38:58,640 nominate and then we can 2011 01:38:58,920 --> 01:39:01,289 Can look at whether we will do these individually or 2012 01:39:01,289 --> 01:39:02,920 whether we will do these as three? 2013 01:39:07,159 --> 01:39:09,159 Seeing that we have three members 2014 01:39:09,279 --> 01:39:12,380 That are for consideration for our three-person sub 2015 01:39:12,380 --> 01:39:15,760 committee the chair would enter a motion 2016 01:39:20,279 --> 01:39:23,079 Commissioner Bruegel. Thank you chair. I move approval of 2017 01:39:23,079 --> 01:39:27,399 the subcommittee with members commissioners Taylor Roselle 2018 01:39:27,399 --> 01:39:29,100 and Dudowitz as the members 2019 01:39:30,880 --> 01:39:34,949 Commissioner Beck I second the motion we have a first and a 2020 01:39:34,949 --> 01:39:37,439 second. We'll call for a vote on 2021 01:39:39,279 --> 01:39:41,279 I 2022 01:39:47,159 --> 01:39:49,359 Motion carries 7-0. I 2023 01:39:51,399 --> 01:39:54,119 Will move us on to our public hearings 2024 01:39:54,920 --> 01:39:58,600 Chair wants to make a clarification. We're going to have 2025 01:39:58,600 --> 01:40:01,920 one item. We're going to change the order this evening 2026 01:40:02,119 --> 01:40:04,119 We're going to be moving item B 2027 01:40:04,479 --> 01:40:08,840 Fr. 15 up to the first item to be discussed 2028 01:40:09,359 --> 01:40:14,960 And then item a will become item B. So I'm going to 2029 01:40:19,439 --> 01:40:21,819 Okay a point of order we also have a third item for public 2030 01:40:21,819 --> 01:40:27,039 hearing if anybody's waiting for this the 2031 01:40:27,359 --> 01:40:30,899 razor ranch item C has been tabled at this time 2032 01:40:31,560 --> 01:40:33,989 Just to let you know if you are waiting for that item that 2033 01:40:33,989 --> 01:40:34,960 has been tabled 2034 01:40:36,199 --> 01:40:39,609 With that clarification we will then move on and open the 2035 01:40:39,609 --> 01:40:40,840 public hearing for 2036 01:40:42,159 --> 01:40:45,659 I'm sorry. This is just a point for the record when you say 2037 01:40:45,659 --> 01:40:47,600 table. Do you mean postponed to? 2038 01:40:48,560 --> 01:40:50,560 postpone to date certain 2039 01:40:55,279 --> 01:40:57,279 Okay 2040 01:40:59,920 --> 01:41:03,029 Well a clarification we talked about this earlier do we 2041 01:41:03,029 --> 01:41:05,840 need a motion for that or just to state it here on the 2042 01:41:05,840 --> 01:41:06,840 record this time 2043 01:41:06,840 --> 01:41:10,920 I think that you can state it on the record at this time 2044 01:41:11,680 --> 01:41:13,399 We'll stick with what we discussed earlier 2045 01:41:13,399 --> 01:41:16,470 We're going to state it that it is going to be continued to 2046 01:41:16,470 --> 01:41:17,439 our November 4th 2047 01:41:18,000 --> 01:41:21,819 2015 meeting that is a razor ranch item and we will now 2048 01:41:21,819 --> 01:41:23,399 move on to item 2049 01:41:24,439 --> 01:41:27,329 Fr. 15 - 0 0 2 I'm going to go ahead and open the public 2050 01:41:27,329 --> 01:41:28,840 hearing for this item 2051 01:41:29,920 --> 01:41:32,170 Thank You chairperson. I'm going to ask Julie Wyatt with 2052 01:41:32,170 --> 01:41:34,359 the planning department to make the presentation for the 2053 01:41:34,359 --> 01:41:35,560 final replant of 2054 01:41:36,039 --> 01:41:39,119 Ashroom addition lot 1 or block a thank you Julie 2055 01:41:40,199 --> 01:41:42,250 Good evening. I'm Julie Wyatt associate planner with the 2056 01:41:42,250 --> 01:41:43,000 city of Denny 2057 01:41:43,800 --> 01:41:47,199 Tonight I'm presenting at fr 1520 Ashroom addition 2058 01:41:48,159 --> 01:41:50,939 The request is to consider a right a final replant of the 2059 01:41:50,939 --> 01:41:52,180 Ashroom addition 2060 01:41:53,000 --> 01:41:56,029 It's a replant of lot 1 block a and they're taking in some 2061 01:41:56,029 --> 01:41:58,319 additional unplatted property 2062 01:41:59,439 --> 01:42:02,800 Section 212 of the Texas local government code does require 2063 01:42:02,800 --> 01:42:04,560 a public hearing for all replants 2064 01:42:05,840 --> 01:42:09,819 Here is the plot. This is the this is the original platted 2065 01:42:09,819 --> 01:42:12,800 tract. They're adding in some previously unplatted 2066 01:42:13,439 --> 01:42:15,439 property in order to 2067 01:42:15,520 --> 01:42:17,520 Locate a shade structure in that area 2068 01:42:18,279 --> 01:42:20,340 The plot hat does meet the technical requirements of the 2069 01:42:20,340 --> 01:42:23,340 Denton development code and staff does recommend approval 2070 01:42:23,340 --> 01:42:24,000 of this plot 2071 01:42:28,680 --> 01:42:30,680 Any questions for staff 2072 01:42:31,840 --> 01:42:34,090 Commissioner Briegel. Thank you chair. I was just curious. 2073 01:42:34,090 --> 01:42:37,079 Is this the yoga hut or is this the Denton yoga center? I 2074 01:42:38,239 --> 01:42:40,239 Think it's the yoga head. I 2075 01:42:40,359 --> 01:42:42,359 Was just curious 2076 01:42:42,359 --> 01:42:45,140 The applicant is has no bearing whatsoever on how I'm gonna 2077 01:42:45,140 --> 01:42:45,720 judge on this 2078 01:42:45,720 --> 01:42:48,159 I just was very curious because they're both right there 2079 01:42:53,640 --> 01:42:59,399 Kindali yoga ashroom, okay more yoga is always good 2080 01:43:01,640 --> 01:43:05,479 Kundalini, okay. Thanks. I was just curious. Thank you 2081 01:43:10,119 --> 01:43:10,760 Now see any other question this is a public hearing is 2082 01:43:10,760 --> 01:43:16,199 there anyone here that would like to speak on this side 2083 01:43:22,520 --> 01:43:24,520 Anyone that would like to speak on this side 2084 01:43:27,359 --> 01:43:31,409 Seeing none we will close the public hearing and the chair 2085 01:43:31,409 --> 01:43:33,579 will entertain a motion 2086 01:43:38,479 --> 01:43:43,779 Commissioner Beck I move that we approve FR 15 0020 2087 01:43:45,239 --> 01:43:47,239 Commissioner Briegel. I'll second that 2088 01:43:49,159 --> 01:43:51,539 We have a first and a second we'll call for a vote on the 2089 01:43:51,539 --> 01:43:51,939 board 2090 01:43:52,520 --> 01:43:54,520 I 2091 01:44:00,119 --> 01:44:02,119 Motion carries 7-0 2092 01:44:03,239 --> 01:44:06,039 That will move us back to our item 2093 01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:10,199 Pz 15 - 0 1 6 2094 01:44:11,039 --> 01:44:15,270 We will open the public hearing and ask for staff 2095 01:44:15,270 --> 01:44:17,159 presentation. Thank you chair 2096 01:44:17,159 --> 01:44:20,050 I'm going to ask Jeff Whitaker to make the presentation on 2097 01:44:20,050 --> 01:44:22,960 the city of Denton's mobility plan and provide an update 2098 01:44:44,000 --> 01:44:46,510 Good evening Commission. My name is Jeff Whitaker. I'm the 2099 01:44:46,510 --> 01:44:48,750 project manager on the didn't mobility plan impact free 2100 01:44:48,750 --> 01:44:49,199 study 2101 01:44:49,720 --> 01:44:52,439 And I'm with Kimmy Horn associates and I'm gonna give you a 2102 01:44:52,439 --> 01:44:55,789 presentation to outline the progress we made and give you 2103 01:44:55,789 --> 01:44:56,260 some updates 2104 01:44:56,260 --> 01:44:57,520 in the mobility plan 2105 01:44:57,520 --> 01:44:59,960 So why are we updating the mobility plan? One is didn't 2106 01:44:59,960 --> 01:45:02,960 currently has a mobility plan. It's an existing roadway 2107 01:45:02,960 --> 01:45:03,560 network plan 2108 01:45:03,560 --> 01:45:06,510 It's a map towards the future as you can see in the map in 2109 01:45:06,510 --> 01:45:07,199 front of you 2110 01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:10,739 The existing mobility plan consists of a primary major 2111 01:45:10,739 --> 01:45:14,039 arterial secondary arterial and collector facilities 2112 01:45:14,039 --> 01:45:16,439 That's the current design standards that are adopted within 2113 01:45:16,439 --> 01:45:18,890 the city didn't we're not looking at modifying those we're 2114 01:45:18,890 --> 01:45:19,520 looking down on 2115 01:45:20,279 --> 01:45:22,279 elaborating on this current mobility plan at this time 2116 01:45:23,520 --> 01:45:25,550 So why to update the mobility mobility plan one is to 2117 01:45:25,550 --> 01:45:28,720 determine the current capacity of the existing streets 2118 01:45:28,720 --> 01:45:31,390 That's already used up. We want to know how much of the 2119 01:45:31,390 --> 01:45:33,920 capacity of the existing roadway networks used up 2120 01:45:33,920 --> 01:45:35,399 I think is you drive around the city 2121 01:45:35,399 --> 01:45:37,649 You can kind of take a guess on some of the roads of where 2122 01:45:37,649 --> 01:45:38,960 we may need some extra capacity 2123 01:45:38,960 --> 01:45:40,960 but we want to actually quantify that we 2124 01:45:41,600 --> 01:45:44,100 wanted to add the approved streets are already approved for 2125 01:45:44,100 --> 01:45:44,319 the 2126 01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:48,289 Approved NPC such as the hills of Denton Coles Ranch and 2127 01:45:48,289 --> 01:45:50,520 how to ranch the reason we wanted to do this is we want to 2128 01:45:50,520 --> 01:45:52,199 Make sure we were planning how to connect to them in the 2129 01:45:52,199 --> 01:45:52,520 future 2130 01:45:52,520 --> 01:45:54,970 And if they're on a map we can know how to connect to them 2131 01:45:54,970 --> 01:45:55,680 in the future 2132 01:45:56,239 --> 01:45:58,609 We also want to look at upgrading downgrading some streets 2133 01:45:58,609 --> 01:46:00,600 based on the projected traffic volumes 2134 01:46:01,439 --> 01:46:03,869 The I believe the last of the real last thorough update was 2135 01:46:03,869 --> 01:46:06,239 done in 2000 to the mobility plan. There's been some 2136 01:46:07,439 --> 01:46:09,439 Several minor updates over the last couple years 2137 01:46:09,640 --> 01:46:11,789 But we wanted to take a good hard look to see is what we 2138 01:46:11,789 --> 01:46:15,350 were planning back in 2000 adequate either too much or too 2139 01:46:15,350 --> 01:46:15,800 little 2140 01:46:16,680 --> 01:46:19,250 We wanted better realign some of the streets in the 2141 01:46:19,250 --> 01:46:21,859 existing mobility plan to improve traffic movement and by 2142 01:46:21,859 --> 01:46:22,960 that's really connectivity 2143 01:46:22,960 --> 01:46:25,340 We were looking at key locations of the city where there's 2144 01:46:25,340 --> 01:46:27,310 opportunities to connect and we want to preserve those 2145 01:46:27,310 --> 01:46:28,439 opportunities to connect 2146 01:46:29,439 --> 01:46:31,699 Some opportunities if you don't put them on the map they go 2147 01:46:31,699 --> 01:46:33,789 away and there's no connection that will occur in the 2148 01:46:33,789 --> 01:46:34,199 future 2149 01:46:35,560 --> 01:46:38,020 Another one is to develop a build-up condition roadway 2150 01:46:38,020 --> 01:46:38,680 network scenario 2151 01:46:38,680 --> 01:46:40,829 And one of the reasons we wanted to do this and it was 2152 01:46:40,829 --> 01:46:43,199 important this is we're currently going through an impact 2153 01:46:43,199 --> 01:46:43,560 fee study 2154 01:46:43,560 --> 01:46:45,729 Process and we wanted to make sure that the roadmap we were 2155 01:46:45,729 --> 01:46:47,520 using is adequate to support the next five years 2156 01:46:47,920 --> 01:46:49,880 And one thing that's important about that state law 2157 01:46:49,880 --> 01:46:52,359 requires us to review this mobility plan every five years 2158 01:46:52,760 --> 01:46:55,130 Along with the impact fee so every five years we required 2159 01:46:55,130 --> 01:46:56,039 this mobility plan 2160 01:46:56,279 --> 01:46:58,409 But we can look at it on a weekly basis if we wanted to 2161 01:46:58,409 --> 01:47:01,060 every development that comes in we have ability to look at 2162 01:47:01,060 --> 01:47:01,239 that 2163 01:47:02,840 --> 01:47:05,939 So one of the key components of this mobility plan that 2164 01:47:05,939 --> 01:47:08,090 wasn't done in private previous years was the develop of 2165 01:47:08,090 --> 01:47:08,840 what we call a trans 2166 01:47:08,840 --> 01:47:11,909 CAD model trans CAD is just a software. That's the software 2167 01:47:11,909 --> 01:47:13,720 that we use to develop the mobility plan 2168 01:47:13,760 --> 01:47:16,010 It's actually the same software that the North Central 2169 01:47:16,010 --> 01:47:17,640 Texas Council of Governments the MPO 2170 01:47:18,039 --> 01:47:19,840 Uses to run the region-wide model 2171 01:47:19,840 --> 01:47:21,989 The reason we wanted to do that is because we wanted our 2172 01:47:21,989 --> 01:47:24,079 models to be able to speak to each other in case they ever 2173 01:47:24,079 --> 01:47:27,149 needed to and we can share information between the regional 2174 01:47:27,149 --> 01:47:28,960 planning Commission and then 2175 01:47:30,359 --> 01:47:33,800 So what the model helps us do it helps us to understand the 2176 01:47:33,800 --> 01:47:35,560 existing carry capacity of the roadway network 2177 01:47:35,600 --> 01:47:37,710 And it also allows us to understand the future carrying 2178 01:47:37,710 --> 01:47:39,039 capacity on the roadway network 2179 01:47:39,880 --> 01:47:41,399 We calibrated this model 2180 01:47:41,399 --> 01:47:44,189 It's one of the tougher steps of our project is we wanted 2181 01:47:44,189 --> 01:47:46,800 to make sure the existing model matched close as it could 2182 01:47:47,239 --> 01:47:49,909 Within an adopted there's an adopted standard by Federal 2183 01:47:49,909 --> 01:47:52,680 Highway Administration that says your mallard your models 2184 01:47:52,680 --> 01:47:53,640 adequately calibrated 2185 01:47:53,640 --> 01:47:56,359 And the model from didn't is actually meets those standards 2186 01:47:56,359 --> 01:47:58,970 Which is not every model you work on we can say that on but 2187 01:47:58,970 --> 01:48:00,319 then we were able to say that 2188 01:48:01,680 --> 01:48:03,560 Why were we able to do that in some models? 2189 01:48:03,560 --> 01:48:05,520 We don't have enough data to do that and then we counted a 2190 01:48:05,520 --> 01:48:09,000 hundred and eleven locations and the map you see the black 2191 01:48:09,000 --> 01:48:09,359 dots or 2192 01:48:09,359 --> 01:48:10,279 locations 2193 01:48:10,279 --> 01:48:13,229 One thing to note is text dot roads are not shown on these 2194 01:48:13,229 --> 01:48:13,859 locations 2195 01:48:13,859 --> 01:48:16,229 That's because text dot maintains their own count system. 2196 01:48:16,229 --> 01:48:17,199 We were able to get their data 2197 01:48:17,319 --> 01:48:20,109 So we have more than a hundred and eleven locations if you 2198 01:48:20,109 --> 01:48:21,520 add in the textile locations 2199 01:48:24,159 --> 01:48:26,579 So those existing traffic counts are what we use to calib 2200 01:48:26,579 --> 01:48:27,960 rate the model 2201 01:48:27,960 --> 01:48:30,329 So that's what we compared our model to what the existing 2202 01:48:30,329 --> 01:48:32,399 was and then we looked at the future land use plan 2203 01:48:33,199 --> 01:48:35,279 We use the comp plan that was recently adopted in the didn 2204 01:48:35,279 --> 01:48:38,640 't 2030 plan and loaded our demographics into the model 2205 01:48:38,640 --> 01:48:39,159 network 2206 01:48:40,239 --> 01:48:42,500 And projected traffic in the future 2207 01:48:45,840 --> 01:48:46,569 So the development of the mobility plan map really came in 2208 01:48:46,569 --> 01:48:50,539 three stages on top of the modeling we really looked at as 2209 01:48:50,539 --> 01:48:51,520 I mentioned 2210 01:48:51,520 --> 01:48:53,800 The master plan communities then we looked to see working 2211 01:48:53,800 --> 01:48:54,560 to key new roads 2212 01:48:54,800 --> 01:48:56,859 And then we once we had those we ran the model again and 2213 01:48:56,859 --> 01:48:59,439 wanted to see where upgrades and downgrades could occur 2214 01:49:00,520 --> 01:49:03,340 So as the map in front of you shows the brown roads are the 2215 01:49:03,340 --> 01:49:05,819 new roads. These are the master plan community roads 2216 01:49:05,880 --> 01:49:08,649 These are simply us just updating the map. They're already 2217 01:49:08,649 --> 01:49:10,640 approved and we want to make sure that they're adequately 2218 01:49:11,319 --> 01:49:13,689 Put in the model for two reasons. We want to make sure that 2219 01:49:13,689 --> 01:49:14,439 the capacity that those 2220 01:49:15,000 --> 01:49:17,579 Facilities are providing are shown and reflected in our in 2221 01:49:17,579 --> 01:49:19,760 our network, but also to make sure that we connect to in 2222 01:49:19,760 --> 01:49:20,199 the future 2223 01:49:20,840 --> 01:49:23,659 The new roads we laid out and a lot of the new roads are 2224 01:49:23,659 --> 01:49:26,279 put into areas where there's not much development out there 2225 01:49:26,279 --> 01:49:26,680 because they 2226 01:49:26,680 --> 01:49:28,640 Have opportunity for new roads 2227 01:49:28,640 --> 01:49:31,000 Many times if we could always relay out our cities 2228 01:49:31,000 --> 01:49:32,960 We might relay our cities differently so we were trying to 2229 01:49:32,960 --> 01:49:35,579 learn from previous layouts and other communities and how 2230 01:49:35,579 --> 01:49:36,399 we laid out this network 2231 01:49:36,880 --> 01:49:40,399 So we laid out various networks for the new roadways 2232 01:49:42,319 --> 01:49:44,930 And then how do we determine the updates this is where we 2233 01:49:44,930 --> 01:49:45,800 really use the model 2234 01:49:45,800 --> 01:49:47,850 We want to make sure that what's going to load and we also 2235 01:49:47,850 --> 01:49:48,640 use the land use plan 2236 01:49:48,960 --> 01:49:51,739 We want to know what volumes are on the model today 2237 01:49:51,920 --> 01:49:54,289 What volumes in the model are going to be in the future in 2238 01:49:54,289 --> 01:49:56,359 some areas the model the volumes don't increase actually 2239 01:49:56,359 --> 01:49:57,140 some areas the volumes 2240 01:49:57,140 --> 01:49:59,590 Actually could go down a little bit because more roads are 2241 01:49:59,590 --> 01:50:01,840 built as more roads have built some traffic shifts 2242 01:50:02,640 --> 01:50:05,229 connectivity land use land use is important we wanted to 2243 01:50:05,229 --> 01:50:07,079 make sure we understood the land use out there we want to 2244 01:50:07,079 --> 01:50:07,500 make sure the 2245 01:50:07,500 --> 01:50:10,270 roadways can match the land use and there are existing 2246 01:50:10,270 --> 01:50:12,199 conditions and constraints and some roadways we 2247 01:50:12,920 --> 01:50:16,189 In some roads we probably want to have eight lanes if we 2248 01:50:16,189 --> 01:50:19,079 could because there's too much capacity on it but we don't 2249 01:50:19,079 --> 01:50:19,760 have the right of way to do that and the buildings are in 2250 01:50:19,760 --> 01:50:21,680 front so there's constraints we have to deal with 2251 01:50:21,680 --> 01:50:24,750 I just wanted to give you two examples the first is an what 2252 01:50:24,750 --> 01:50:28,180 we call an upgrade Jim Crystal Road was evaluated 2253 01:50:28,720 --> 01:50:32,390 And what you see on this map is green if you're familiar 2254 01:50:32,390 --> 01:50:34,689 looking at them didn't mobility plan which I've looked at a 2255 01:50:34,689 --> 01:50:35,640 lot of the last year 2256 01:50:35,840 --> 01:50:39,880 Green means secondary arterial red means primary arterial 2257 01:50:39,880 --> 01:50:43,199 It's the color indication so on the back it shows green 2258 01:50:43,199 --> 01:50:45,640 that's what Jim Crystal used to be its current class was a 2259 01:50:45,640 --> 01:50:46,560 secondary arterial 2260 01:50:46,840 --> 01:50:49,220 When we ran the model there was a lot of traffic that's 2261 01:50:49,220 --> 01:50:51,920 eventually in that industrial area gonna go towards I-35 2262 01:50:51,920 --> 01:50:54,000 and from Marsh Branch to I-35 2263 01:50:54,000 --> 01:50:56,020 It really needed some extra capacity to deal with the 2264 01:50:56,020 --> 01:50:57,279 turning movements at I-35 2265 01:50:58,000 --> 01:51:00,430 So one of our recommendations was to upgrade Jim Crystal 2266 01:51:00,430 --> 01:51:02,520 Road and so for all the upgrades and downgrades 2267 01:51:02,520 --> 01:51:04,890 We went for every road pretty much in the city of Denton 2268 01:51:04,890 --> 01:51:06,579 that's on the mobility plan we went through this exercise 2269 01:51:06,840 --> 01:51:09,119 Just some of them did not change. We've only identified the 2270 01:51:09,119 --> 01:51:10,079 ones that have changed 2271 01:51:12,439 --> 01:51:14,720 On the opposite end we looked at a road called Nottingham 2272 01:51:14,720 --> 01:51:16,720 it runs through a residential area 2273 01:51:17,199 --> 01:51:19,729 It's currently on the thorough for plan as a secondary 2274 01:51:19,729 --> 01:51:22,180 arterial. It doesn't show the volumes need to be a 2275 01:51:22,180 --> 01:51:23,000 secondary arterial 2276 01:51:23,000 --> 01:51:25,000 It's land use context really doesn't 2277 01:51:25,439 --> 01:51:27,390 Encourage a secondary arterial. It's a neighborhood type of 2278 01:51:27,390 --> 01:51:30,989 facility as well as it's got some limited right away 2279 01:51:30,989 --> 01:51:31,819 constraints 2280 01:51:31,819 --> 01:51:34,699 And so we we recommend downgrading 2281 01:51:35,359 --> 01:51:37,560 Nottingham really to match what the land use was out there 2282 01:51:39,199 --> 01:51:41,199 And so on the map in front of you 2283 01:51:42,039 --> 01:51:44,840 All the blue roadways are where we had upgrades 2284 01:51:45,560 --> 01:51:47,979 most of the upgrades you'll see are in future areas and one 2285 01:51:47,979 --> 01:51:49,779 of the reasons we're looking at that is we 2286 01:51:50,279 --> 01:51:52,649 aired a little bit on the heritage and caution if it was 2287 01:51:52,649 --> 01:51:54,920 close to the threshold of need and upgrade we kind of went 2288 01:51:54,920 --> 01:51:55,079 with 2289 01:51:55,079 --> 01:51:57,149 The philosophy of getting the right away now and most of 2290 01:51:57,149 --> 01:51:59,640 those are in the areas of new roadways 2291 01:52:00,319 --> 01:52:02,779 Downgrades those are the areas like I just mentioned on Not 2292 01:52:02,779 --> 01:52:05,279 tingham where we felt like the facility did not need to be 2293 01:52:05,279 --> 01:52:06,960 what the current thorough for plan was 2294 01:52:07,239 --> 01:52:09,380 And then we had some realignments just we were looking at 2295 01:52:09,380 --> 01:52:11,600 the alignments some of them are like Bonnie Bray 2296 01:52:11,600 --> 01:52:14,380 It's being designed right now. It's being realigned so we 2297 01:52:14,380 --> 01:52:16,350 're matching the alignment that's being designed currently 2298 01:52:16,350 --> 01:52:18,960 so some of those are realignments 2299 01:52:21,239 --> 01:52:23,720 When we put all these different maps together we get a 2300 01:52:24,039 --> 01:52:26,020 Post mobility plan ultimately the mobility plan is going to 2301 01:52:26,020 --> 01:52:28,079 look very similar to what you saw at the first slide 2302 01:52:28,279 --> 01:52:30,729 We're gonna match that but this is to communicate what we 2303 01:52:30,729 --> 01:52:34,000 changed the yellow slides are up when you see yellow behind 2304 01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:34,199 a road 2305 01:52:34,199 --> 01:52:36,050 That means that's been an updated facility that means the 2306 01:52:36,050 --> 01:52:39,060 classifications change or it's been realigned when you see 2307 01:52:39,060 --> 01:52:39,439 pink 2308 01:52:39,439 --> 01:52:42,470 That means it's a new facility, but a new facility could 2309 01:52:42,470 --> 01:52:44,000 mean an NPC it could mean 2310 01:52:45,399 --> 01:52:47,399 It's a brand new roadway 2311 01:52:47,479 --> 01:52:49,590 Those were just to let everyone know when they're looking 2312 01:52:49,590 --> 01:52:52,000 at this maps that if there's something highlighted behind 2313 01:52:52,000 --> 01:52:52,260 it 2314 01:52:52,260 --> 01:52:54,630 That's what's changed since the last time they looked since 2315 01:52:54,630 --> 01:52:55,640 the current existing map 2316 01:52:57,239 --> 01:52:59,609 One thing that we did and we wanted to show this slide. 2317 01:52:59,609 --> 01:53:01,729 This is the result of our chance-gap model one thing you 2318 01:53:01,729 --> 01:53:01,920 note 2319 01:53:02,600 --> 01:53:06,399 And this is a common occurrence across all of Texas is you 2320 01:53:06,399 --> 01:53:08,260 're never going to necessarily build yourself out of 2321 01:53:08,260 --> 01:53:08,760 congestion 2322 01:53:08,760 --> 01:53:11,180 That's why other mechanisms are port and connectivity 2323 01:53:12,039 --> 01:53:14,279 Walking etc. So you'll see in the core central area 2324 01:53:14,279 --> 01:53:16,789 You'll see some red red usually means that it's not the 2325 01:53:16,789 --> 01:53:19,189 great level service because there's not as much room to 2326 01:53:19,189 --> 01:53:20,000 widen roadways 2327 01:53:20,000 --> 01:53:22,250 So we have to figure out other ways to accommodate that but 2328 01:53:22,250 --> 01:53:24,810 one thing that's positive when we ran the results of this 2329 01:53:24,810 --> 01:53:25,159 model 2330 01:53:25,720 --> 01:53:29,279 Is that we had the delay and congestion of today's 2331 01:53:29,279 --> 01:53:30,199 environment? 2332 01:53:30,199 --> 01:53:32,449 And we added all the language we have in the future and we 2333 01:53:32,449 --> 01:53:35,279 built this new updated model and the delay slightly went 2334 01:53:35,279 --> 01:53:35,520 down 2335 01:53:35,640 --> 01:53:37,840 So that means we building a lot. We're building roads 2336 01:53:37,840 --> 01:53:41,100 We're also adding a lot of people and there was a reduction 2337 01:53:41,100 --> 01:53:42,880 in delay from what you see today 2338 01:53:42,880 --> 01:53:45,500 And that doesn't always happen a lot of time when you add a 2339 01:53:45,500 --> 01:53:45,840 lot of 2340 01:53:46,880 --> 01:53:48,439 Growth even if you're building roads 2341 01:53:48,439 --> 01:53:50,880 You can't keep up with it, but your plan at least kept up 2342 01:53:50,880 --> 01:53:52,199 with today's environment 2343 01:53:52,199 --> 01:53:54,569 Which was a positive thing when we tested it against the 2344 01:53:54,569 --> 01:53:57,239 current mobility plan. It was about 40% worse 2345 01:53:57,239 --> 01:53:59,380 So if you will we're saving about 40% with the 2346 01:53:59,380 --> 01:54:01,939 recommendations that we're making on this plan in delay 2347 01:54:06,039 --> 01:54:09,199 So one of the we've worked on this plan to a little history 2348 01:54:09,199 --> 01:54:12,199 We probably I think first was in this plan back in January 2349 01:54:12,199 --> 01:54:13,039 time frame 2350 01:54:13,039 --> 01:54:15,960 And we've been working on with various members of the 2351 01:54:15,960 --> 01:54:18,159 community fed several calls as well as 2352 01:54:20,159 --> 01:54:22,569 Several meetings with you guys already as well several 2353 01:54:22,569 --> 01:54:26,000 meetings with the mobility mobility and council committee 2354 01:54:26,439 --> 01:54:29,460 so with this staff is looking for comments as part of the 2355 01:54:29,460 --> 01:54:31,119 public hearing as well as 2356 01:54:32,000 --> 01:54:34,439 Staff is recommending approval to propose mobility plan 2357 01:54:34,439 --> 01:54:37,949 that's presented. So with that open any questions that you 2358 01:54:37,949 --> 01:54:38,539 have or 2359 01:54:39,560 --> 01:54:41,560 public hearing 2360 01:54:45,720 --> 01:54:48,920 Commissioner Bruegel, thank you chair mr. Whitaker 2361 01:54:50,439 --> 01:54:52,350 And I'm probably gonna have more questions later as well, 2362 01:54:52,350 --> 01:54:54,840 but I'll just start with these couple ones 2363 01:54:55,359 --> 01:54:58,079 You use the example of Nottingham being downgraded from a 2364 01:54:58,079 --> 01:55:00,640 secondary arterial to a collector street 2365 01:55:01,399 --> 01:55:04,520 I'm curious. Will there be any city initiated? 2366 01:55:06,239 --> 01:55:08,020 Projects to calm traffic on that street since there is it 2367 01:55:08,020 --> 01:55:11,680 is in a residential neighborhood. It's going to be a 2368 01:55:11,680 --> 01:55:12,119 collector 2369 01:55:12,119 --> 01:55:15,390 There's a park there. I know you can designate it as a 2370 01:55:15,390 --> 01:55:16,140 collector 2371 01:55:16,140 --> 01:55:18,520 But if it's built as a four lane highway going through a 2372 01:55:18,520 --> 01:55:20,319 neighborhood people are gonna speed down it 2373 01:55:20,359 --> 01:55:22,359 So I'm curious. Are there gonna be any? 2374 01:55:23,279 --> 01:55:26,130 City initiated or I'm sorry, maybe and maybe this would be 2375 01:55:26,130 --> 01:55:26,920 a better question 2376 01:55:28,840 --> 01:55:31,449 Purpose of this the map we are dedicating it to be a 2377 01:55:31,449 --> 01:55:35,159 collector which would lead it towards a different type of 2378 01:55:35,159 --> 01:55:36,260 desired speed 2379 01:55:36,439 --> 01:55:39,060 Etc so that would lead to be more open to those type of 2380 01:55:39,060 --> 01:55:40,159 things now, right? 2381 01:55:40,159 --> 01:55:43,359 So p is p.s here. Could you could you answer that for me, 2382 01:55:43,359 --> 01:55:43,819 please sir is 2383 01:55:44,800 --> 01:55:48,920 And if there's not a city initiated traffic calming 2384 01:55:49,600 --> 01:55:52,560 Device what what what would neighbor what would the 2385 01:55:52,560 --> 01:55:54,760 neighbors have to do to initiate? 2386 01:55:54,760 --> 01:55:57,960 Yeah, normally the process that the traffic engineers 2387 01:55:57,960 --> 01:56:01,420 follows is that the neighborhood actually approaches 2388 01:56:02,520 --> 01:56:05,640 That there is issue here on the street. They would like to 2389 01:56:05,640 --> 01:56:06,500 see some action 2390 01:56:07,279 --> 01:56:10,159 They will go and conduct a study. They look at the traffic 2391 01:56:10,319 --> 01:56:13,720 They look at the speeds and then based on that they will 2392 01:56:13,720 --> 01:56:16,699 come back and do some actual construction 2393 01:56:16,699 --> 01:56:17,159 Okay 2394 01:56:17,159 --> 01:56:21,000 So so in the case when any street in the city is downgraded 2395 01:56:21,239 --> 01:56:24,680 If the neighborhood would like to calm traffic on that they 2396 01:56:24,680 --> 01:56:26,680 would approach someone in the engineering department or 2397 01:56:26,680 --> 01:56:27,439 they would approach 2398 01:56:27,439 --> 01:56:31,500 Yes, the traffic engineer. Okay. All right. Thank you. My 2399 01:56:31,500 --> 01:56:32,479 second question is 2400 01:56:33,520 --> 01:56:37,449 I served on the bike plan years and years ago. And so I I'm 2401 01:56:37,449 --> 01:56:39,779 sorry. I should know this answer 2402 01:56:40,680 --> 01:56:42,119 as 2403 01:56:42,119 --> 01:56:44,840 I understand it when we are building a when we are 2404 01:56:44,840 --> 01:56:47,359 rebuilding a street not just paving it over 2405 01:56:47,359 --> 01:56:49,840 But we as we did like on Jago several years ago 2406 01:56:49,840 --> 01:56:53,909 We we dug it up and we rebuilt it and we put we we put the 2407 01:56:53,909 --> 01:56:54,359 bike 2408 01:56:54,800 --> 01:56:57,310 The Sharos there because that was part of the bike plan. I 2409 01:56:57,310 --> 01:56:59,920 'm curious when we're building these new streets 2410 01:57:00,520 --> 01:57:02,939 That are proposed in the mobility plan. What are the 2411 01:57:02,939 --> 01:57:04,720 requirements for building? 2412 01:57:05,560 --> 01:57:08,170 Designated bike lanes not a wide outside lane or a share. 2413 01:57:08,170 --> 01:57:10,680 But what are the requirements for a designated bike lane 2414 01:57:10,680 --> 01:57:11,720 and also? 2415 01:57:12,399 --> 01:57:14,399 sidewalks for these new these new builds 2416 01:57:15,279 --> 01:57:18,250 The designated bike lanes would be on those areas where we 2417 01:57:18,250 --> 01:57:21,840 already have a bike plan approved by the city 2418 01:57:22,239 --> 01:57:25,010 So if the bike plan is already there the engineers when 2419 01:57:25,010 --> 01:57:28,560 they design the street, they will take that into account 2420 01:57:29,800 --> 01:57:31,359 if 2421 01:57:31,359 --> 01:57:34,560 When we go through the context sensitive process 2422 01:57:34,560 --> 01:57:38,300 Which is still part of the consultant charge at this time. 2423 01:57:38,300 --> 01:57:40,840 We will continue to work on that process 2424 01:57:41,640 --> 01:57:45,659 with the mobility committee and the council to see how much 2425 01:57:45,659 --> 01:57:50,119 if there's acceptance of these CSS process if that is 2426 01:57:50,560 --> 01:57:52,560 becomes part of the 2427 01:57:53,920 --> 01:57:58,630 Design tool then in that case using the CSS process which 2428 01:57:58,630 --> 01:58:01,439 we touched base on in one presentation 2429 01:58:01,439 --> 01:58:03,439 I had done to you all earlier 2430 01:58:03,640 --> 01:58:08,090 The neighborhood and the stakeholders will be contacted. 2431 01:58:08,090 --> 01:58:10,960 There'll be a meeting based on the stakeholder input 2432 01:58:11,159 --> 01:58:13,439 You will come up with what is the best? 2433 01:58:14,159 --> 01:58:18,180 use for that particular street based on the neighborhood 2434 01:58:18,920 --> 01:58:21,289 Requirements and the constraints that are there on that 2435 01:58:21,289 --> 01:58:24,199 street based on the right away based on the traffic 2436 01:58:24,279 --> 01:58:27,369 so there would be so the engineering department would have 2437 01:58:27,369 --> 01:58:27,760 like a 2438 01:58:28,359 --> 01:58:30,239 neighborhood meeting with 2439 01:58:30,239 --> 01:58:32,819 People in that area when they're when you're when you're 2440 01:58:32,819 --> 01:58:35,470 proposing a new road to go through there and they could 2441 01:58:35,470 --> 01:58:36,279 help the neighborhood 2442 01:58:36,279 --> 01:58:38,279 Can then help design that street? 2443 01:58:39,039 --> 01:58:42,970 That will happen if the CSS process is adopted by the city 2444 01:58:42,970 --> 01:58:43,760 council 2445 01:58:44,319 --> 01:58:48,119 Okay, if it is not adopted then basically whatever cross- 2446 01:58:48,119 --> 01:58:50,359 section we have if there is no 2447 01:58:51,119 --> 01:58:54,560 Bike lane designated as part of the overall plan then they 2448 01:58:54,560 --> 01:58:58,399 would not design that as a bike lane in there and how do 2449 01:58:58,399 --> 01:58:58,539 you? 2450 01:58:59,680 --> 01:59:03,609 The use of the CSS process is approved by City Council. Is 2451 01:59:03,609 --> 01:59:05,439 that part of this mobility plan? 2452 01:59:05,439 --> 01:59:08,720 Is that it is not it's not part of the mobility plan. It is 2453 01:59:08,720 --> 01:59:09,560 just a standalone 2454 01:59:10,960 --> 01:59:13,920 Item there as part of the consultant work effort 2455 01:59:14,279 --> 01:59:17,810 So we still have to know we are trying to get this mobility 2456 01:59:17,810 --> 01:59:20,560 plan and the road impact free process done 2457 01:59:20,800 --> 01:59:24,520 And then we will continue on with the CSS process. We had 2458 01:59:24,520 --> 01:59:27,119 one presentation to the mobility committee 2459 01:59:27,560 --> 01:59:31,560 We need to go back and do a kind of a workshop to them 2460 01:59:31,560 --> 01:59:36,470 So they understand how this will work as if they will sit 2461 01:59:36,470 --> 01:59:38,479 there like stakeholders in the workshop 2462 01:59:38,479 --> 01:59:42,100 And they will put their comments in and then come out with 2463 01:59:42,100 --> 01:59:43,960 okay. This is what the section looks like 2464 01:59:44,000 --> 01:59:47,949 This is the best so that process if it is accepted by the 2465 01:59:47,949 --> 01:59:48,720 council 2466 01:59:48,720 --> 01:59:52,020 It will become part of the ordinance. So later on if the 2467 01:59:52,020 --> 01:59:53,000 city is going to 2468 01:59:53,880 --> 01:59:55,840 rehab a street 2469 01:59:55,840 --> 01:59:58,800 The CSS process will be one of the things that could be 2470 01:59:58,800 --> 02:00:01,600 used there if the neighborhood desires that 2471 02:00:02,079 --> 02:00:03,960 Instead of the same cross-section. We want to have a 2472 02:00:03,960 --> 02:00:05,880 different cross section. Okay 2473 02:00:05,880 --> 02:00:08,020 So that's that's something separate that City Council would 2474 02:00:08,020 --> 02:00:11,319 see that planning and zoning wouldn't necessarily see yes, 2475 02:00:11,319 --> 02:00:12,140 that is correct. Okay 2476 02:00:12,140 --> 02:00:14,140 Thank you. Appreciate it 2477 02:00:16,439 --> 02:00:17,960 Commissioner Rosal 2478 02:00:17,960 --> 02:00:18,760 Thank You chair 2479 02:00:18,760 --> 02:00:21,590 I'm currently looking at the current mobility map and 2480 02:00:21,590 --> 02:00:24,039 highlighted as yellow green and red streets 2481 02:00:24,319 --> 02:00:27,880 The green indicating existing road not to class standard 2482 02:00:29,159 --> 02:00:30,640 can 2483 02:00:30,640 --> 02:00:34,079 Staff or someone walk me through how the prioritization of 2484 02:00:34,079 --> 02:00:35,899 correcting this happens 2485 02:00:35,920 --> 02:00:39,060 Is there priority over the new roads that need to be built 2486 02:00:39,060 --> 02:00:39,720 or how does? 2487 02:00:40,319 --> 02:00:43,180 I'm trying to understand that's a lot of green roads that 2488 02:00:43,180 --> 02:00:45,859 we are identifying or not up to class standard 2489 02:00:46,000 --> 02:00:49,199 Is there a plan of action or how do you prioritize? 2490 02:00:49,960 --> 02:00:51,960 Getting those roads up to class standard 2491 02:00:53,800 --> 02:00:57,159 Not up to class standard means that the road is designated 2492 02:00:57,159 --> 02:00:59,439 to be a primary or a secondary arterial 2493 02:00:59,520 --> 02:01:02,239 Which is either a six lane or a four lane highway, but 2494 02:01:02,239 --> 02:01:05,520 currently it is not so if it is currently not 2495 02:01:06,439 --> 02:01:08,119 to that 2496 02:01:08,119 --> 02:01:10,260 classification then over time 2497 02:01:12,000 --> 02:01:15,680 And this is where the mobility plan comes in and the model 2498 02:01:15,680 --> 02:01:16,800 comes into play 2499 02:01:17,359 --> 02:01:20,720 With the model that has now we already have it as a tool 2500 02:01:20,720 --> 02:01:21,000 now 2501 02:01:21,359 --> 02:01:24,800 We know what streets are the most affected where the level 2502 02:01:24,800 --> 02:01:26,300 of service is the lowest 2503 02:01:26,800 --> 02:01:32,239 So using that data when we do bond sales later on to have 2504 02:01:32,239 --> 02:01:34,119 capacity projects 2505 02:01:35,039 --> 02:01:38,340 Those streets could be targeted that okay. These are the 2506 02:01:38,340 --> 02:01:40,399 roads where we have the worst condition right now 2507 02:01:40,520 --> 02:01:42,920 So we need to spend the money and bring them up to the 2508 02:01:42,920 --> 02:01:44,199 standard so it's based on 2509 02:01:45,479 --> 02:01:48,680 Condition and traffic patterns those two things with 2510 02:01:48,680 --> 02:01:49,039 traffic 2511 02:01:49,039 --> 02:01:51,840 Yeah condition is if the traffic is not there 2512 02:01:52,000 --> 02:01:54,939 But the condition has gone down the OCI rating has gone 2513 02:01:54,939 --> 02:01:55,239 down 2514 02:01:55,439 --> 02:01:57,470 Then city would spend some money just to bring the 2515 02:01:57,470 --> 02:02:00,439 condition up the structure condition. Okay. Thank you 2516 02:02:01,640 --> 02:02:04,710 Commissioner Dudowitz a question you mentioned a mobility 2517 02:02:04,710 --> 02:02:07,079 committee. Could you tell me who's on that committee, 2518 02:02:07,079 --> 02:02:07,279 please? 2519 02:02:09,399 --> 02:02:11,770 Identify them as staff and or citizens is comprised of 2520 02:02:11,770 --> 02:02:14,880 three council members three council members 2521 02:02:19,399 --> 02:02:21,399 Any other questions for staff 2522 02:02:25,479 --> 02:02:27,479 Thank you 2523 02:02:27,840 --> 02:02:30,880 This is a public hearing we do have some cards 2524 02:02:32,399 --> 02:02:35,270 The first card I'm a call on is our friend Brian Bentley 2525 02:02:35,270 --> 02:02:36,960 good to see you back 2526 02:02:38,720 --> 02:02:40,720 Brian you only get three minutes 2527 02:02:45,199 --> 02:02:49,800 First we need to talk about the area over near Clear Creek 2528 02:02:50,479 --> 02:02:53,199 As a matter of a point of order we need a name and an 2529 02:02:53,199 --> 02:02:53,859 address 2530 02:03:06,359 --> 02:03:08,359 There we go, all right 2531 02:03:09,359 --> 02:03:13,600 Well, okay. My name is Brian Bentley 2528 Jamestown didn't 2532 02:03:13,600 --> 02:03:14,060 Texas 2533 02:03:15,439 --> 02:03:16,680 and 2534 02:03:16,680 --> 02:03:19,770 You know, I'm pretty crazy kind of foolish at times and I'm 2535 02:03:19,770 --> 02:03:22,199 gonna prove to you tonight that I am because 2536 02:03:23,159 --> 02:03:27,729 If I were to support this mobility plan, I could make money 2537 02:03:27,729 --> 02:03:28,279 on it 2538 02:03:29,279 --> 02:03:31,920 But now since I'm going to speak against it and if I can 2539 02:03:31,920 --> 02:03:34,840 get you to deny it, I will lose some money 2540 02:03:34,840 --> 02:03:38,520 So because sometimes it's more important the overall goal 2541 02:03:38,520 --> 02:03:40,039 than to just make money 2542 02:03:40,039 --> 02:03:43,829 And the point is over here at Clear Creek and I'm really 2543 02:03:43,829 --> 02:03:46,659 sad that we don't have a big blow up of it 2544 02:03:47,319 --> 02:03:51,680 But it's a over you go up Mingo when you turn up Collins 2545 02:03:53,720 --> 02:03:56,359 Can we get a big map of that corner? 2546 02:04:02,479 --> 02:04:04,479 There we go, okay 2547 02:04:05,159 --> 02:04:06,399 well 2548 02:04:06,399 --> 02:04:09,029 First off, let me point out that these maps that 2549 02:04:09,029 --> 02:04:12,130 engineering is showing you in engineering. I'm not knocking 2550 02:04:12,130 --> 02:04:12,319 them 2551 02:04:12,319 --> 02:04:15,039 They do a good job of doing things on paper 2552 02:04:15,520 --> 02:04:18,520 They don't go out in the field and see the real world 2553 02:04:18,520 --> 02:04:19,159 sometimes 2554 02:04:19,920 --> 02:04:23,199 First off they're showing a lot of this land out here as 2555 02:04:23,199 --> 02:04:26,659 city. Well, maybe it might be in the future 2556 02:04:26,659 --> 02:04:29,680 But right now it's actually counting. It's not city limits 2557 02:04:29,960 --> 02:04:33,619 So you you get a skewed idea you think it you're looking at 2558 02:04:33,619 --> 02:04:35,960 something that's in the city, but it's not it's actually in 2559 02:04:35,960 --> 02:04:36,300 County 2560 02:04:36,960 --> 02:04:38,680 and 2561 02:04:38,680 --> 02:04:43,069 Where Clear Creek comes in here? There are three big ran 2562 02:04:43,069 --> 02:04:44,260 ches out there 2563 02:04:45,680 --> 02:04:47,680 and 2564 02:04:47,760 --> 02:04:50,680 Some names are so big they don't have to worry about money. 2565 02:04:50,680 --> 02:04:51,600 So I'm not I'm not 2566 02:04:52,479 --> 02:04:54,640 Convinced they're too eager to sell out 2567 02:04:56,000 --> 02:04:58,369 But you'll notice that this if you look at the history of 2568 02:04:58,369 --> 02:05:01,560 Clear Creek it if I remember right the year was 2569 02:05:02,119 --> 02:05:05,859 1956 when the agreements were made on that it's 2900 acres 2570 02:05:05,859 --> 02:05:06,119 and 2571 02:05:06,680 --> 02:05:10,039 It took a restoration effort to restore Clear Creek 2572 02:05:10,760 --> 02:05:14,359 And and yet now engineering wants to put a six lane arter 2573 02:05:14,359 --> 02:05:14,720 ial 2574 02:05:15,600 --> 02:05:19,279 Right beside Clear Creek now. I actually happen to own 10 2575 02:05:19,279 --> 02:05:21,960 acres that back up to Clear Creek and 2576 02:05:22,920 --> 02:05:26,409 That six lane road would actually connect right on to the 2577 02:05:26,409 --> 02:05:28,000 edge of my property 2578 02:05:28,000 --> 02:05:30,949 And I would end up with 10 acres of frontage on a six lane 2579 02:05:30,949 --> 02:05:31,520 arterial 2580 02:05:31,520 --> 02:05:34,680 well, yes, that would be worth a lot of money to me, but 2581 02:05:36,000 --> 02:05:40,560 We started a process 60 years ago to preserve this area and 2582 02:05:41,560 --> 02:05:45,760 I think it's more important to stick with our original plan 2583 02:05:48,920 --> 02:05:52,239 We do need a road going north and south but it can go over 2584 02:05:52,239 --> 02:05:55,199 to Cooper Creek it can go further west 2585 02:05:56,000 --> 02:05:59,539 Why do we want to put a six lane right up against a nature 2586 02:05:59,539 --> 02:06:02,319 preserve that we've worked 60 years? 2587 02:06:03,159 --> 02:06:05,420 to rebuild and preserve 2588 02:06:06,920 --> 02:06:08,159 also 2589 02:06:08,159 --> 02:06:11,079 The nature preserve is all in the floodplain. It's owned by 2590 02:06:11,079 --> 02:06:13,600 Corps of Engineers. It will never be developed 2591 02:06:13,720 --> 02:06:15,720 So we're going to put all this infrastructure 2592 02:06:16,239 --> 02:06:19,310 Right over against something where there is no possibility 2593 02:06:19,310 --> 02:06:22,670 for development on that side of the property on that side 2594 02:06:22,670 --> 02:06:23,479 of this road 2595 02:06:24,399 --> 02:06:25,479 so 2596 02:06:25,479 --> 02:06:28,279 To me it makes sense to move it to the west where we can 2597 02:06:28,279 --> 02:06:31,199 develop on both sides get higher taxes on both sides 2598 02:06:31,279 --> 02:06:32,560 and 2599 02:06:32,560 --> 02:06:34,560 if you've been out there 2600 02:06:34,720 --> 02:06:37,079 you know I I had I 2601 02:06:37,880 --> 02:06:41,039 Had does in my front yard that 2602 02:06:41,640 --> 02:06:44,539 Nestled in the bushes and slept out there all the time. I 2603 02:06:44,539 --> 02:06:47,079 got deer. I got turkeys. I got all kinds of stuff and 2604 02:06:48,159 --> 02:06:50,159 It just it just doesn't make sense 2605 02:06:55,720 --> 02:06:57,439 There any questions for Commissioner bit or ex-commissioner 2606 02:06:57,439 --> 02:06:59,840 Bentley, excuse me 2607 02:07:03,680 --> 02:07:07,500 Okay, thank you for your comments we have this is a public 2608 02:07:07,500 --> 02:07:10,600 hearing also have a card from mr. Leo Miller 2609 02:07:17,520 --> 02:07:21,739 Leo Miller 3091 Swisher Road and really have more questions 2610 02:07:21,739 --> 02:07:23,779 and it's not for y'all, but if you can steer me in a 2611 02:07:23,779 --> 02:07:24,159 direction 2612 02:07:25,439 --> 02:07:28,039 Some of these roadways and the mobility plan 2613 02:07:28,760 --> 02:07:32,109 Don't have the right away existing some of it the right 2614 02:07:32,109 --> 02:07:35,390 away is being granted as developments are happening where 2615 02:07:35,390 --> 02:07:36,399 the developer 2616 02:07:36,399 --> 02:07:38,399 Just is not required 2617 02:07:38,760 --> 02:07:41,680 To develop that road. It's obviously going to be a city 2618 02:07:42,399 --> 02:07:44,399 funded thing who 2619 02:07:44,640 --> 02:07:47,710 Dedicates determines that I think you mentioned bonds those 2620 02:07:47,710 --> 02:07:48,340 type of things 2621 02:07:48,340 --> 02:07:50,720 How do I go find out and push to get certain things on 2622 02:07:50,720 --> 02:07:53,319 certain bond issues? Who would I talk to about that? 2623 02:07:54,079 --> 02:07:56,479 See if staff can answer that question for you 2624 02:07:58,359 --> 02:08:02,659 I would actually refer to PS Aurora. He's with he's sitting 2625 02:08:02,659 --> 02:08:05,119 right behind you actually and please exchange 2626 02:08:05,119 --> 02:08:09,420 I know PS so I'll ask him what I saw here. I thought I 2627 02:08:09,420 --> 02:08:11,239 would just take a couple minutes of his time, but 2628 02:08:12,439 --> 02:08:16,680 other question on some of the level of services maps 2629 02:08:17,520 --> 02:08:21,090 There are some yellows and reds and various good and bad 2630 02:08:21,090 --> 02:08:23,100 grades, but there's very 2631 02:08:24,239 --> 02:08:27,729 Specific corner or area that's being affected by a school 2632 02:08:27,729 --> 02:08:29,500 and the decision to drop off 2633 02:08:30,800 --> 02:08:33,979 Children in the back with automobiles where was designed 2634 02:08:33,979 --> 02:08:37,159 for buses where there's infrastructure in the front to go 2635 02:08:37,159 --> 02:08:37,399 there 2636 02:08:37,399 --> 02:08:40,800 What I need to do is get the city the police and the DISD 2637 02:08:40,800 --> 02:08:43,640 all on the same page because they're all pointing to each 2638 02:08:43,640 --> 02:08:43,840 other 2639 02:08:43,840 --> 02:08:45,840 Saying it's somebody else's issue 2640 02:08:47,399 --> 02:08:51,220 Who I think we talked about the traffic engineer for the 2641 02:08:51,220 --> 02:08:53,399 city's perspective who is that? 2642 02:08:54,680 --> 02:08:56,680 Turn that over said I 2643 02:08:57,760 --> 02:08:59,779 Don't know the name of the traffic engineer. Yeah, who 2644 02:08:59,779 --> 02:09:01,760 would I call to start with I mean? 2645 02:09:01,760 --> 02:09:05,109 I will take your information and I will get back with you 2646 02:09:05,109 --> 02:09:08,489 with the right point of contact for all the information 2647 02:09:08,489 --> 02:09:09,439 that you need 2648 02:09:09,439 --> 02:09:11,869 All my information is on the card superb. I will get with 2649 02:09:11,869 --> 02:09:14,029 you tomorrow and we will get you in point in the right 2650 02:09:14,029 --> 02:09:14,640 direction 2651 02:09:16,760 --> 02:09:19,539 Commissioner Taylor, thank you chair. Could you could you 2652 02:09:19,539 --> 02:09:22,119 specify what neighborhood? 2653 02:09:23,600 --> 02:09:26,399 I'm really not in a neighborhood. It's villages of Carmel 2654 02:09:26,399 --> 02:09:27,319 preserves 2655 02:09:28,000 --> 02:09:31,600 Pecan Creek Elementary school sits between Lakeview and 2656 02:09:32,319 --> 02:09:36,000 old part of Swisher with Edwards East and West and 2657 02:09:37,920 --> 02:09:43,359 Pokers page pokers page new post of all funnels into the 2658 02:09:43,359 --> 02:09:44,000 backside of 2659 02:09:45,199 --> 02:09:48,310 Pecan Creek Elementary, which is clearly marked service 2660 02:09:48,310 --> 02:09:49,560 vehicles buses only 2661 02:09:50,159 --> 02:09:53,729 all the signage is the infrastructure the drive etc are all 2662 02:09:53,729 --> 02:09:57,920 built for service vehicles and buses the front of 2663 02:09:58,439 --> 02:10:01,699 Pecan Creek Elementary school faces Lakeview which has two 2664 02:10:01,699 --> 02:10:03,640 lanes north two lanes south 2665 02:10:04,239 --> 02:10:06,819 Easily during certain amount of times during the day that 2666 02:10:06,819 --> 02:10:09,840 one lane can be dedicated for a lot of students 2667 02:10:09,840 --> 02:10:11,680 And I get that there's a lot of students 2668 02:10:11,680 --> 02:10:15,359 I've talked to the principal and they're doing the best 2669 02:10:15,359 --> 02:10:17,359 they can but for about an hour 2670 02:10:18,239 --> 02:10:20,779 In the morning about an hour in the afternoon every day 2671 02:10:20,779 --> 02:10:24,119 that intersection is locked down somebody has a fire 2672 02:10:24,119 --> 02:10:25,199 somebody has a heart attack 2673 02:10:26,279 --> 02:10:28,640 Police need to get through there. It's not going to happen 2674 02:10:29,520 --> 02:10:31,520 So thank you 2675 02:10:32,079 --> 02:10:34,079 Thanks 2676 02:10:40,479 --> 02:10:40,720 This is a public hearing is there anyone else that would 2677 02:10:40,720 --> 02:10:44,640 like to come and speak on this item 2678 02:10:48,960 --> 02:10:53,239 Seeing none we do have a couple of emails 2679 02:10:54,560 --> 02:10:57,199 And I think I'll just acknowledge the two people who have 2680 02:10:57,199 --> 02:11:00,829 sent those to identify them we have one email for the 2681 02:11:00,829 --> 02:11:01,840 record from 2682 02:11:04,079 --> 02:11:07,869 Brian Bentley and then we have a second email from Patty 2683 02:11:07,869 --> 02:11:11,760 Hayworth and I'll include those as 2684 02:11:12,479 --> 02:11:14,479 part of our public record 2685 02:11:16,159 --> 02:11:18,789 Anyone else that would like to speak on this item before 2686 02:11:18,789 --> 02:11:19,119 close 2687 02:11:21,119 --> 02:11:23,760 Seeing none I will close the public hearing on this item 2688 02:11:24,960 --> 02:11:28,699 And I'll open the floor to commissioners for discussion or 2689 02:11:28,699 --> 02:11:29,520 emotion 2690 02:11:37,039 --> 02:11:41,300 Commissioner Beck I'm gonna step out of the way here and I 2691 02:11:41,300 --> 02:11:43,439 'm gonna make a motion we table this item 2692 02:11:44,479 --> 02:11:47,479 Had a lot of explaining things explaining the workshop and 2693 02:11:47,479 --> 02:11:49,920 this is not a knock against the staff at all 2694 02:11:49,920 --> 02:11:53,039 I think I do a great job. I love this plan in general 2695 02:11:53,840 --> 02:11:57,350 But as I say the the devil's in the details and I guess 2696 02:11:57,350 --> 02:12:00,479 being new is part of what I'm running up against here 2697 02:12:00,479 --> 02:12:02,850 I just feel like we need just a little more. I need a 2698 02:12:02,850 --> 02:12:05,199 little more time to look at this thing a little bit more 2699 02:12:05,199 --> 02:12:05,840 thoroughly 2700 02:12:05,840 --> 02:12:07,840 So I motion that we table that 2701 02:12:08,960 --> 02:12:12,210 The chair would ask you to clarify your motion. Do you have 2702 02:12:12,210 --> 02:12:14,720 a date that you would like to table this to? 2703 02:12:17,039 --> 02:12:20,640 If a month isn't too long I'd like to push it up a month 2704 02:12:23,199 --> 02:12:25,920 Not this not the next PNZ meeting but the meeting after 2705 02:12:25,920 --> 02:12:26,479 that 2706 02:12:30,720 --> 02:12:37,430 That's our second meeting in November we'll get the date 2707 02:12:37,430 --> 02:12:39,359 certain on that 2708 02:12:44,239 --> 02:12:46,239 Commissioner hudspeth 2709 02:12:46,800 --> 02:12:50,149 I would second that motion to give me an opportunity to 2710 02:12:50,149 --> 02:12:51,279 review the 2711 02:12:52,399 --> 02:12:54,720 Some information we discussed in the work session 2712 02:12:57,520 --> 02:13:00,829 November 18th, just for the record that meeting will be 2713 02:13:00,829 --> 02:13:02,159 november the 18th 2714 02:13:05,279 --> 02:13:07,279 We have a first and a second 2715 02:13:09,760 --> 02:13:12,159 And we have some additional discussion 2716 02:13:12,800 --> 02:13:17,149 Commissioner Dudowitz, just clarification that motion is to 2717 02:13:17,149 --> 02:13:18,560 have a public hearing 2718 02:13:20,079 --> 02:13:22,319 Or to have another work session for 2719 02:13:23,359 --> 02:13:26,810 Commissioners I wasn't I didn't get the this would be a 2720 02:13:26,810 --> 02:13:29,039 post-public for the public here. You mean clear 2721 02:13:30,159 --> 02:13:33,500 well, and it would hope it'd be discussed or in the work 2722 02:13:33,500 --> 02:13:34,159 session to 2723 02:13:35,359 --> 02:13:38,979 Followed by the public session. Okay, then I'd like to I 2724 02:13:38,979 --> 02:13:40,319 don't know if there's any 2725 02:13:41,439 --> 02:13:45,399 Formal process here to amend his motion that we have a kept 2726 02:13:45,399 --> 02:13:46,479 a commission's 2727 02:13:47,119 --> 02:13:49,529 Work session dedicated to this for our new commissioners 2728 02:13:49,529 --> 02:13:51,520 and for any other further questions 2729 02:13:52,479 --> 02:13:54,479 prior to the the public meeting 2730 02:13:55,680 --> 02:13:58,119 Question for staff will we have time to be able to do that 2731 02:13:58,119 --> 02:14:00,159 at our next meeting or would it need to be the second 2732 02:14:00,159 --> 02:14:00,560 meeting? 2733 02:14:00,640 --> 02:14:02,800 And then we will be taking this action on 2734 02:14:04,159 --> 02:14:06,159 If we can meet earlier 2735 02:14:06,640 --> 02:14:09,090 Prior to five we can actually start addressing some of the 2736 02:14:09,090 --> 02:14:10,960 questions that the commission has 2737 02:14:12,239 --> 02:14:14,289 I would have to clarify with ps in his schedule to make 2738 02:14:14,289 --> 02:14:15,680 sure they can attend 2739 02:14:16,319 --> 02:14:17,920 Okay 2740 02:14:17,920 --> 02:14:19,920 My concern if I may commissioner dunham 2741 02:14:20,239 --> 02:14:22,359 If we do it during a normal work session if we would have 2742 02:14:22,359 --> 02:14:22,960 enough time 2743 02:14:23,439 --> 02:14:27,079 So we may need to do a separate one or start an earlier 2744 02:14:27,079 --> 02:14:29,439 meeting for I wouldn't be opposed to that 2745 02:14:30,319 --> 02:14:33,390 Okay, um just to throw this out and staff can give 2746 02:14:33,390 --> 02:14:34,239 direction on this 2747 02:14:34,960 --> 02:14:37,439 We've had in the past some special call meetings 2748 02:14:38,159 --> 02:14:42,119 To deal with issues in the past and it may be appropriate 2749 02:14:42,119 --> 02:14:44,159 if we are tight on time 2750 02:14:44,159 --> 02:14:46,159 And this is a something that needs to move forward 2751 02:14:46,720 --> 02:14:49,130 That is that something that we should consider to have a 2752 02:14:49,130 --> 02:14:50,880 special call for this? Absolutely 2753 02:14:50,960 --> 02:14:53,840 We can start coordinating with yourselves on availability 2754 02:14:53,840 --> 02:14:56,869 and set up some a special called meeting or a few special 2755 02:14:56,869 --> 02:14:58,560 called meetings to address this 2756 02:14:59,119 --> 02:15:00,640 Okay, and if 2757 02:15:00,640 --> 02:15:04,489 Let me chime in on that as well. Thank you chair. I would 2758 02:15:04,489 --> 02:15:06,640 actually prefer if we could maybe meet 2759 02:15:07,439 --> 02:15:09,810 Instead of meeting earlier because those of us who have 2760 02:15:09,810 --> 02:15:12,979 jobs and kids it's difficult sometimes to get here in by 2761 02:15:12,979 --> 02:15:13,279 five 2762 02:15:13,920 --> 02:15:16,300 Um, so I know in the past what we've done is we've met 2763 02:15:16,300 --> 02:15:18,079 since we meet every other wednesday 2764 02:15:18,159 --> 02:15:20,159 We just we've got wednesdays kind of blocked out 2765 02:15:20,560 --> 02:15:23,609 Perhaps we could meet, you know at five or five thirty on 2766 02:15:23,609 --> 02:15:26,399 another wednesday in between sessions 2767 02:15:26,560 --> 02:15:29,149 If we wanted to workshop this more I would I would request 2768 02:15:29,149 --> 02:15:32,000 that as a working mom that be helpful. Thank you 2769 02:15:34,479 --> 02:15:36,869 Would it be appropriate staff to go ahead and try to set a 2770 02:15:36,869 --> 02:15:39,600 date or I don't know what sort of public notice 2771 02:15:39,600 --> 02:15:41,600 We need to give for that meeting 2772 02:15:41,600 --> 02:15:43,680 This will not be a public hearing the public hearing from 2773 02:15:43,680 --> 02:15:46,640 what i'm understanding tentatively has get placed on the 2774 02:15:46,640 --> 02:15:46,960 tape 2775 02:15:47,520 --> 02:15:50,239 As a motion is for november 18th prior to that 2776 02:15:50,960 --> 02:15:53,640 If someone can pull a calendar we can actually go ahead and 2777 02:15:53,640 --> 02:15:55,600 select the wednesday dates now 2778 02:15:57,600 --> 02:16:00,390 Is this something we will need to specify in this motion or 2779 02:16:00,390 --> 02:16:01,520 can we just leave it as a 2780 02:16:01,840 --> 02:16:05,140 As a special call meeting date to be determined for mr. Dud 2781 02:16:05,140 --> 02:16:07,359 owitz's november 11th would be the day 2782 02:16:09,520 --> 02:16:11,970 Would be a special called session and it would just require 2783 02:16:11,970 --> 02:16:14,640 the regular 72 hour agenda posting 2784 02:16:15,920 --> 02:16:17,689 It wouldn't push the public hearing back because the public 2785 02:16:17,689 --> 02:16:20,590 hearing would be on the on the 18th. So this would be the 2786 02:16:20,590 --> 02:16:21,039 week prior 2787 02:16:24,880 --> 02:16:27,949 And and i'm sorry just to clarify is there a an amendment 2788 02:16:27,949 --> 02:16:30,239 to the motion on the record I was going to ask 2789 02:16:31,279 --> 02:16:34,360 What was your amendment amendment is to have a a work 2790 02:16:34,360 --> 02:16:35,920 session prior to the 2791 02:16:36,399 --> 02:16:38,770 The public meetings that we could spend time discussing 2792 02:16:38,770 --> 02:16:40,799 among ourselves and you want to give us that date 2793 02:16:41,360 --> 02:16:43,360 November the 11th is that the date? 2794 02:16:43,760 --> 02:16:46,010 Whatever date is I understand they have to look at staff 2795 02:16:46,010 --> 02:16:47,540 has to look at options 2796 02:16:52,479 --> 02:16:55,620 I'll leave it up to staff to identify a date of a wednesday 2797 02:16:55,620 --> 02:16:56,559 in between 2798 02:16:57,120 --> 02:16:58,159 Okay 2799 02:16:58,159 --> 02:17:02,079 We can either do um the amendment or commissioner beck may 2800 02:17:02,079 --> 02:17:03,520 want to amend his motion to 2801 02:17:04,559 --> 02:17:06,559 Have that special call on the 11th 2802 02:17:09,680 --> 02:17:12,750 Okay, guide me here and then I I agree with what 2803 02:17:12,750 --> 02:17:15,569 commissioner dotter was saying if we could have that time 2804 02:17:15,569 --> 02:17:16,159 set aside 2805 02:17:16,319 --> 02:17:18,159 Or we could discuss it 2806 02:17:18,159 --> 02:17:21,459 What I need to do to do that to amend my own so you modify 2807 02:17:21,459 --> 02:17:24,319 your motion. Okay, then i'm accommodate mr 2808 02:17:24,319 --> 02:17:26,559 Dudowitz's, okay, I move to uh 2809 02:17:27,200 --> 02:17:31,000 Modify my motion to uh, it doesn't require separate motion. 2810 02:17:31,000 --> 02:17:33,430 You just make the statement that you've modified it. Okay, 2811 02:17:33,430 --> 02:17:33,920 I do 2812 02:17:34,799 --> 02:17:36,799 and the second 2813 02:17:37,920 --> 02:17:39,200 I think 2814 02:17:39,200 --> 02:17:42,079 Commissioner husband, do you agree with that? I do 2815 02:17:43,040 --> 02:17:44,719 Okay 2816 02:17:44,719 --> 02:17:47,510 With with all of that discussion. Do we need a restatement 2817 02:17:47,510 --> 02:17:50,190 of the motion over there? Well, let's we're not quite done 2818 02:17:50,190 --> 02:17:51,440 with amendments. Okay 2819 02:17:52,719 --> 02:17:54,239 commissioner taylor 2820 02:17:54,239 --> 02:17:56,239 Thank you chair 2821 02:17:56,719 --> 02:17:58,079 In order to 2822 02:17:58,079 --> 02:18:01,120 Get some work done before we get to our meetings on this 2823 02:18:01,840 --> 02:18:04,000 I would like to bring up a few issues that we've identified 2824 02:18:04,000 --> 02:18:05,520 in work session in the public hearing 2825 02:18:06,239 --> 02:18:09,659 and these can either be comments or if we want to amend 2826 02:18:09,659 --> 02:18:10,239 them into 2827 02:18:10,959 --> 02:18:12,959 The motion to postpone either way 2828 02:18:14,479 --> 02:18:17,600 So I think context sensitive design has has been mentioned 2829 02:18:17,600 --> 02:18:20,059 by staff and I think that's the key that we're looking at 2830 02:18:20,059 --> 02:18:20,319 here 2831 02:18:20,639 --> 02:18:22,319 So we want to make sure that 2832 02:18:22,319 --> 02:18:24,319 the local contexts are 2833 02:18:24,319 --> 02:18:26,840 Are appropriate for the roadways that are being planned and 2834 02:18:26,840 --> 02:18:28,239 we've identified 2835 02:18:29,040 --> 02:18:30,399 post oak 2836 02:18:30,399 --> 02:18:34,120 Near the clear creek natural heritage center possibly real 2837 02:18:34,120 --> 02:18:35,440 igning that to cooper creek 2838 02:18:36,079 --> 02:18:38,079 Or some similar realignment 2839 02:18:39,440 --> 02:18:41,920 There are also around hickory creek on the south side of 2840 02:18:41,920 --> 02:18:42,319 town 2841 02:18:43,280 --> 02:18:44,399 we have 2842 02:18:44,399 --> 02:18:48,170 Hickory creek forms another large barrier and there are not 2843 02:18:48,170 --> 02:18:48,799 parallel 2844 02:18:50,239 --> 02:18:52,959 Arterials or large collectors along hickory creek. There 2845 02:18:52,959 --> 02:18:54,319 are short segments 2846 02:18:55,200 --> 02:18:58,399 East west that that kind of stair step down 2847 02:18:58,959 --> 02:19:01,590 So i'd ask that we look at and there might not be any 2848 02:19:01,590 --> 02:19:03,920 feasible options, but we look at options 2849 02:19:04,559 --> 02:19:07,920 for an arterial or arterials that parallel the north and 2850 02:19:07,920 --> 02:19:11,440 south sides of the hickory creek floodplain area 2851 02:19:13,440 --> 02:19:16,719 It's also the map that is in the the existing 2852 02:19:18,159 --> 02:19:20,159 mobility plan map 2853 02:19:20,159 --> 02:19:21,260 shows 2854 02:19:21,260 --> 02:19:22,639 airports 2855 02:19:22,639 --> 02:19:24,639 rail floodplains 2856 02:19:24,639 --> 02:19:27,860 And other major barriers and that helps give us context 2857 02:19:27,860 --> 02:19:29,840 helps us understand the context 2858 02:19:30,319 --> 02:19:32,700 So we go why isn't there a road there? Oh, well, there's a 2859 02:19:32,700 --> 02:19:34,000 half mile wide floodplain there 2860 02:19:34,399 --> 02:19:37,680 Or there's a railroad track or there's an airport. So in 2861 02:19:37,680 --> 02:19:39,200 our next presentation 2862 02:19:39,840 --> 02:19:43,170 I would like them the future mobility plan map to include 2863 02:19:43,170 --> 02:19:46,079 major limiting factors like rail 2864 02:19:46,540 --> 02:19:48,540 airport floodplain 2865 02:19:48,799 --> 02:19:50,799 large esas 2866 02:19:50,879 --> 02:19:51,680 and 2867 02:19:51,680 --> 02:19:53,920 an additional map or overlay 2868 02:19:54,959 --> 02:19:57,750 Showing the future land use map. I think that would be good 2869 02:19:57,750 --> 02:19:59,280 for context for all of us 2870 02:20:00,000 --> 02:20:01,440 we can see 2871 02:20:01,440 --> 02:20:04,899 What we expect like we can in our heads understand somewhat 2872 02:20:04,899 --> 02:20:05,600 the demand 2873 02:20:06,399 --> 02:20:09,180 That is that the model is showing by saying that's rural. 2874 02:20:09,180 --> 02:20:10,399 That's commercial 2875 02:20:10,959 --> 02:20:12,959 There's an airport there things like that 2876 02:20:13,920 --> 02:20:16,159 And then specifically two more hot spots 2877 02:20:17,520 --> 02:20:20,399 the area around pecan creek elementary that does have 2878 02:20:21,600 --> 02:20:24,579 A connectivity issue and if there is any way to alleviate 2879 02:20:24,579 --> 02:20:27,819 that there might not be because of the built structure out 2880 02:20:27,819 --> 02:20:28,159 there 2881 02:20:28,719 --> 02:20:31,319 But i'd like to at least have that addressed as to what 2882 02:20:31,319 --> 02:20:33,520 could be done or why it can't be done 2883 02:20:34,479 --> 02:20:37,680 And then also around sam houston elementary. I don't 2884 02:20:37,680 --> 02:20:39,920 believe the model shows that as a 2885 02:20:40,799 --> 02:20:42,799 red level of service 2886 02:20:43,520 --> 02:20:45,520 But it it is 2887 02:20:45,680 --> 02:20:47,920 Just because of the local traffic patterns 2888 02:20:48,559 --> 02:20:51,530 So that would be teesley in the miller miller area. It 2889 02:20:51,530 --> 02:20:53,920 shows red or does it show red there? Okay 2890 02:20:54,559 --> 02:20:57,520 So those are those are all the things I would like to 2891 02:20:58,399 --> 02:21:00,719 To have at our special call meeting 2892 02:21:03,280 --> 02:21:05,850 I think the chair feels like those can just be addressed in 2893 02:21:05,850 --> 02:21:08,399 that special call rather than needing to be added to unless 2894 02:21:08,399 --> 02:21:08,799 you feel 2895 02:21:08,799 --> 02:21:10,799 Like you would like to okay 2896 02:21:13,840 --> 02:21:15,840 Anybody else 2897 02:21:18,959 --> 02:21:20,100 Do we need to have the motion restated is there by clear on 2898 02:21:20,100 --> 02:21:23,989 what we're doing with the tabling and then a special 2899 02:21:23,989 --> 02:21:25,600 meeting, okay? 2900 02:21:26,239 --> 02:21:28,659 Seeing none have a first and a second and we'll call for a 2901 02:21:28,659 --> 02:21:29,700 vote on the board 2902 02:21:42,319 --> 02:21:44,319 Chair 2903 02:21:44,479 --> 02:21:47,479 Did did we establish the date for that yet was it no did I 2904 02:21:47,479 --> 02:21:51,520 hear november the 8th 18th 18th 18th for the 2905 02:21:52,399 --> 02:21:54,239 for the special 2906 02:21:54,239 --> 02:21:56,239 Special session the 11th. Yeah 2907 02:21:57,200 --> 02:22:00,389 And that was at five o'clock, I assume I think we'll get 2908 02:22:00,389 --> 02:22:01,920 back with a time on those 2909 02:22:03,600 --> 02:22:07,819 Thank you, thank you any other clarifications before I call 2910 02:22:07,819 --> 02:22:08,319 the vote 2911 02:22:10,399 --> 02:22:14,420 Uh, I believe we have already voted on that that item and 2912 02:22:14,420 --> 02:22:16,719 it passed seven zero 2913 02:22:23,120 --> 02:22:26,079 That moves us to our final item this evening, um 2914 02:22:29,200 --> 02:22:32,559 Well, actually we have one other we're going to do a review 2915 02:22:32,559 --> 02:22:34,659 of the project matrix 2916 02:22:35,760 --> 02:22:38,350 And that that is not going to be a little bit here. No, 2917 02:22:38,350 --> 02:22:39,760 that is not I I it's 2918 02:22:40,239 --> 02:22:41,200 basically 2919 02:22:41,200 --> 02:22:44,870 Uh, we attached this through our system for you to for your 2920 02:22:44,870 --> 02:22:45,520 reference 2921 02:22:46,639 --> 02:22:48,299 So should you have any questions or concerns in your 2922 02:22:48,299 --> 02:22:51,260 concluding items that you wanted to bring up related to 2923 02:22:51,260 --> 02:22:52,399 this we'd be happy to 2924 02:22:54,399 --> 02:22:57,120 Are there any questions on the project matrix 2925 02:22:59,600 --> 02:23:03,139 Commissioner brigle not a question, but just a comment. I 2926 02:23:03,139 --> 02:23:05,760 just I find this very helpful. I really yeah 2927 02:23:07,600 --> 02:23:09,629 Now I find this very helpful and I like seeing all the 2928 02:23:09,629 --> 02:23:11,840 things at the bottom say completed completed 2929 02:23:11,920 --> 02:23:14,860 It's really nice to see where we're at and what we've done 2930 02:23:14,860 --> 02:23:16,479 and where we're going. So thank you 2931 02:23:21,600 --> 02:23:23,840 Any other comments or questions on the matrix 2932 02:23:26,879 --> 02:23:30,579 Okay, that will move us on to our concluding items 2933 02:23:36,319 --> 02:23:38,159 Commissioner hudspeth 2934 02:23:38,159 --> 02:23:40,159 Thank you chair 2935 02:23:40,239 --> 02:23:43,280 So I would like to request 2936 02:23:44,319 --> 02:23:46,319 information from staff 2937 02:23:46,540 --> 02:23:48,540 specifically 2938 02:23:49,360 --> 02:23:55,120 Regarding hoa's for our next session and i'd like to 2939 02:23:57,920 --> 02:23:59,920 Get an understanding of 2940 02:24:00,940 --> 02:24:03,040 liabilities to the city for costs 2941 02:24:04,000 --> 02:24:06,000 in advance of if 2942 02:24:06,239 --> 02:24:08,239 something were to 2943 02:24:09,040 --> 02:24:11,440 Happen with the hoa that they can't fulfill their agreement 2944 02:24:11,600 --> 02:24:14,799 So I I just want to discuss that I guess and so 2945 02:24:15,200 --> 02:24:17,120 I don't know if that's a legal discussion or whatever 2946 02:24:17,120 --> 02:24:19,200 during our next but but I just want to discuss 2947 02:24:20,000 --> 02:24:22,559 Or get some information on how that process 2948 02:24:24,159 --> 02:24:27,360 Goes forward and how we receive actual real dollars 2949 02:24:28,319 --> 02:24:30,319 If that need arises 2950 02:24:31,040 --> 02:24:33,520 I'd be happy to speak with you about that 2951 02:24:34,159 --> 02:24:36,719 One-on-one, I don't know if the entire commission 2952 02:24:37,440 --> 02:24:39,819 Wants to discuss any portion of that some of that is 2953 02:24:39,819 --> 02:24:41,360 attorney client privilege 2954 02:24:42,079 --> 02:24:44,079 That would be part of a closed session 2955 02:24:45,280 --> 02:24:48,309 Some of it could be open session, but um, it's really up to 2956 02:24:48,309 --> 02:24:50,819 the board whether or not they want that to hear that as a 2957 02:24:50,819 --> 02:24:51,200 whole 2958 02:24:52,319 --> 02:24:54,399 But i'll be happy to get with you and discuss it with you 2959 02:24:54,399 --> 02:24:55,040 one on one. Sure 2960 02:24:55,840 --> 02:24:57,649 Chair just wants to poll the commission. Is there anyone 2961 02:24:57,649 --> 02:25:00,180 else that would like to participate in that discussion? 2962 02:25:04,159 --> 02:25:07,440 If not, I the chair would would ask commissioner husbeth 2963 02:25:07,440 --> 02:25:10,110 get with legal and have your questions addressed in that 2964 02:25:10,110 --> 02:25:11,600 matter if we need to bring it forward 2965 02:25:12,159 --> 02:25:14,559 Uh, then we will certainly put it on the matrix and do that 2966 02:25:14,559 --> 02:25:16,559 . Thanks. Thank you, sir. Thank you 2967 02:25:19,520 --> 02:25:23,059 Any other comments or items for our concluding items? 2968 02:25:28,000 --> 02:25:32,299 Seeing none i'm going to close our meeting at 7 45. Thank 2969 02:25:32,299 --> 02:25:32,500 you 2970 02:25:34,159 --> 02:25:45,139 [ Silence ]