Subcommittee meeting it's 11 33 and we have a quorum
council member Briggs won't be here today
So we'll start with item 1
items for individual consideration item a consider approval
of the mobility committee of the Denton City Council
meeting minutes of March 21
2018
Madam chair move approval and I'll second all in favor. I
Passes unanimously item B
Receive a report and hold a discussion with dockless bike
share operators concerning the recent bike share ordinance
adopted by the city of Denton and
provide staff direction I
Believe mr. Nelson will be presenting
Good morning, madam chair members of the committee
Earlier this year we passed the city of Denton passed a
ordinance established in a bike a dockless bike share
policy actually, it's a pilot program six month pilot
program and
We had some we had some concerns
That were registered with staff and with a couple of the
council members in terms, you know from from the bike share
operators and so
Councilmember Gregory had asked us asked staff to invite
some of the operators or representatives from the
bike dockless bike share
Operations to come and visit with the committee to outline
some of those concerns
We do have representatives from spin Luke petty John and
then from lime bikes
Miss Katie O'Brien. We had also invited
representatives from
From v bikes. We got no response from a number of different
emails and as well as phone calls and then
OFO
Servando
Had indicated that he would come and present service around
the Esparza
However on Monday late Monday afternoon, he submitted a
written statement I put that at each of your places
I'll quickly outline some of the comments there before I
turn it over to
To miss O'Brien and then
Mr. Petty John can follow in terms of any comments they
have so long the short is is you know
OFO and they had indicated this in the original
Prior to as we were moving through the policy development
They had concerns with the cap on the number of bikes. One
of the concerns they would have they had was just
having
Having a number having the number of bikes that the market
demanded
so
Having enough
Enough of their assets in the marketplace so that those who
wish to use it could find a bike in short order and
Move along and utilize their service in addition to that
having a larger number of bikes
Then would provide them an opportunity to have a more
robust
Rebalancing team here on station here in our community to
be more responsive
They also expressed a limited service area. In fact, that
was one of the responses that we also got from
From vbikes in terms of limited
Service area their concern was is that there was another
bike sure operator who had already had an agreement
with both of the universities and so their their thought
process was is that that's a
Market rich opportunity and not being able to operate on
those particular
on those campuses would create a
Strain in terms of their ability to compete and then the
data sharing there were some concerns. Yes, ma'am. I
was a little bit confused about the comment about not
operating on campuses because I don't believe our ordinance
prohibits anybody from operating on campus our
Ordinance does not necessarily prohibit operating on any of
the campuses. The concern was is that
The universities had entered into memorandum of
understanding with a single bike share operator on their I
don't want to call it private
Private property but on their campus state state property
Okay, so I'm still not following
So how would that how does our ordinance plan with these mo
use between the bike share operators and I don't know that
it's necessarily a
slide against specifically our
particular ordinance, it's just the market in general here
in Denton in terms of not being able to
Have access and have their bikes on those particular
campuses
Was a was a concern that they had they felt like that
limited their their market share. Okay
Thank you. So the other one was data sharing and in fact
staff has
has participated in a
Roundtable if you owes conference call and we plan to do
that for the next
for the next year, but the
roundtable conference call with a number of different
municipalities
with North Central Texas Council of Government
Working to identify how we might be able to
establish a data sharing program that
That assists the the local
communities objective in terms of what we want to do with
that data how we utilize the data and
Essentially the interest in gathering that data is to
create heat maps, right? So those heat maps then
Provide a planning document for our engineers and our bike
bike and ped coordinated coordination
Efforts where we might implement new infrastructure where
we need
Where we're deficient in certain infrastructure how we
might be able to improve
other components in terms of that bike and ped
infrastructure and so
The concern that that is outlined here and the email from
from OFO is you know, certainly
I
Guess it's it's market data or private data that they not
wish to to communicate or if it becomes
public data then
Another competitor may request that information. So one of
the theories was is well
Maybe if we have it on a trailing basis because this data
is really I want to say it's
Important
For a limited period but certainly within four to six
months trailing
It may not be as valuable in terms of the competitive side
however, it would still be valuable on them on the
municipal planning side in terms of
again where to put those enhancements in terms of
Bike and ped infrastructure. So I don't necessarily have it
That's a quick some summation of the email and the
information that was provided to us from OFO
If you have any additional questions, I'm willing to answer
those now or can do that at the end of the prison
After we hear from the the two other bike share operators
that are here today with us
So if Katie O'Brien she again represents
I
Think what would be beneficial if you just had a five
minute short rundown in terms of
What we had discussed to kind of via email what what some
of the concerns are and then maybe towards the end the two
of
You could come up and answer collectively those questions
if that suits the chair. Okay
Good afternoon
And
My name is Katie O'Brien. I'm here on behalf of line bike
today
we appreciate the city of Denton for including us in this
process and the
planning and in conversations about the ordinance
implementation and
We hope to partner with this city in the future
However, line bike is not intending to complete a permit
application at this time
So I'm just here to provide feedback a number of the
company's
Concerns are similar although not exact to what you heard
from OFO
And it's important to our company to be good partners with
all the municipalities
Where they operate and for that to be true
we we really would like to see some changes to the
ordinance for
the ability to have the right size fleet to meet the
the needs of this community and a
different fee structure and also a
larger fleet would allow for us to dedicate more resources
to serve a community like Denton and make sure that the
bikes are
adequately rebalanced and maintained throughout this
community and it is not our intention to have bikes here
and to not
Serve the fleet or the community appropriately and so at
this time we will not be submitting a permit application
But hope hope to partner at some point in the future
I'm glad to answer any questions that anyone has or I'll
wait until after spin
Thank you chairperson
So, what does a right-sized fleet look like for the
demographics in the city the size of them
And
line bike
would prefer to
Operate here for a period of time and see how how many
bikes are necessary. We understand there is not a need to
Flood this community with too many bikes
But for a city the size of Denton with two large college
populations
100 bikes will be dispersed so
Widely throughout the community that it will be difficult
for an individual to
Regularly find and maintain expectation of the ability to
find a bike as when they need it
So I don't have a a perfect number. I apologize and
From our previous conversations we would prefer to bring in
the ballpark of 500 bikes to this community
Which would allow us to dedicate staff
full-time staff to the city of Denton and to the area and
And it would also help to create an expectation of the
availability of bike share as a true mobility
tool or option for your residents
So you're saying start with maybe 500 and you might adjust
up or down based on what your
experiences
Sure, we would we would prefer to be able to have a
conversation with the city and to come to that an agreement
about that
number without
Always having a cap in the ordinance
But if there was a cap in the ordinance
We would just prefer to be able to come back to the city
with our recommendations and your Department of
Transportation
or engineering departments recommendations for what would
be the best fit for Denton and most were many cities across
the country
municipalities do not have a cap and it's a conversation
that's
Ongoing between the vendor companies the municipality and
the perceived need of the community
Thank you and there were some back and forth in in our
discussions about the ordinance about whether it would be
good to have an
ordinance that just allowed for
as many bike share groups has wanted to come in with the
caps that we had or
that it might be better to have a a
Memorandum of understanding with a single company put out
an RFP or something like that
have you had as your company had experience with both of
those different scenarios and
How do how does each one of them work for you? Yes, sir
Line bike and I probably speak for all of the companies
operate in in about any
regulatory environment that you can imagine and
But while we always prefer to have the option to compete
and participate in a market and at a
single MOU agreement
Works well in some instances in order to provide
Enough service and accountability for the municipality and
the vendor
But for example regionally in Plano Plano's recent
ordinance that they adopted
they are will have an a
open-ended permit so for a
Permit fee a company can bring as many bikes in partnership
with the city
You have to have approved docking stations and service
agreements to maintain adequate operations
So they're calling for some you're saying docking stations.
I'm guessing we'd call them corrals. They called them home
zones
Okay
but places where the bikes are supposed to
Rebalance be rebalanced to that's right
the ordinance was drafted a little differently than the
city of Denton's in that every bike does not have to be in
a home zone but
That you're asked to I don't want to misspeak on behalf of
the city of Plano, but you're asked to
identify several particularly in their
Central business districts that would be places to locate
the bikes initially in in deployment
Unfortunately, I think part of our ordinance was simply a
reaction to
Trying to catch up with with what's going on
and respond trying to balance the the desire to
Have a bike share program or more in town and yet be
Sensitive to property owners and to people who are using
sidewalks and
It appeared that the vendor that was here and I don't know
if we could even call them a vendor the
Company that was here
Whatever their technology was to locate bicycles was
Maybe not what we expected it was going to be because even
when they left they you know
Send a note saying well if you all find any bikes, let us
know where they are
And I'm thinking I thought your technology allowed you to
find those bikes because I could drive down the road and
find them but
So can you talk about the technology that you have to find
bikes and how
Precise it is. I can't speak to other companies technology,
but line bike has active GPS on all of the bikes. So
Just like the user is able to identify the location of the
bikes
it's
It's accurate within several feet. It's not I
can't I
Don't know the exact accuracy in terms of five versus seven
feet
But it it's the GPS technology is is remarkable from my lay
experience and that same
technology the company has and it maintains and monitors
all of its bikes and
Monitors how long the bike has been idle for example where
the last ride was who which user?
Completed the last ride and we're able to locate any of
those bikes are
Our software system also has
In app reporting features. So if a user ever has trouble
with a single bike
They can report that in app or obviously through the 1-800
customer service phone number as well
So we have able we are we do know where our bikes are at
all times
Thank you answered my question about the number of bikes so
I don't have any other questions thank you for your time.
Thank you
And I think we have somebody else coming up next
Hello welcome, hey, my name is Luke petty John I'm from
spin
I'll just kind of go through a few of the a few of the
questions and spins answers to them as well and how
everything relates
regarding the bike numbers and the caps that were placed I
Don't think 100 is outrageous
But I think it was contemplated there would be four or more
companies coming in with that many bikes
Which would indicate that perhaps the 500 number of total
bikes for the Denton area makes sense
I
Don't know that that makes sense per operator
however
Seeing as there's only probably one left standing at the
end of this. Maybe that number does make sense
when spin entered into the agreements with UNT and TW you
It was almost prior to any permitting being contemplated in
Denton because
V-bikes was on the ground
and
I had several conversations with the schools beforehand and
with the city as well saying that
It didn't really make sense to bring more bikes to Denton
without the schools buy-in
Which is why I pursued the school first because that's
where most of the ridership is going to come from and there
were already v
Bikes all over the square and elsewhere around town
Not all of which appeared to be written all the time unless
they were just doing an amazing job restocking them on the
square every day
so I
Didn't I didn't want to overcrowd the square or other
popular areas around town with more bikes just because of
that option
I wanted to focus on the universities at that time and that
's how we kind of arrived at the numbers that we did with
the universities
beforehand a smaller amount for TW you
25 to 30 bikes and and a much larger one for UNT because
the campus is much larger and the student body is much
larger as
well and that number was
250 that we arrived at at the time and we were customizing
the bikes to have school colors school branding all of that
. So
the
the the fleet numbers that we arrived at on campuses was
not a way to try and get around any any number that was
proposed here and
At the time it seemed like it would tie into the direction
that the the ordinance was heading
And then we had a few changes even in session with reducing
that number further
We also advocated for the single vendor RFP kind of from
the beginning because
Again, I think that would probably serve this community
best to have the schools and the city under the same thing
and and even possibly
under the same
same guidelines across the board the
Data sharing aspect of everything. I
agree with with both OFO and line bike we really prefer to
have a third party that can aggregate and
Anonymize all the data that we submit
so that city is able to just look at bikes not this company
's bikes in this company's bikes and and and
determine
Who has the the most ridership or anything in that way
because at the end of the day
We're all working to provide the same service and that is
an alternative mobility option for the people. So
We have no issue sharing all the data that we collect which
does not include any personally identifiable information.
It's just trip data
Start and locations routes duration of the time that took
to ride that length
So all of it is something that that we're happy to work
with and we do provide this to schools
Openly and freely we have a dashboard that we share and it
shows these heat maps that you're talking about
For planning purposes and really helps with determining
where that next parking lot or garage should go
Striping for bike lanes those kind of things
And the only other the only other comment I really have is
that for the the requirements in the ordinance on
virtual bike corrals
I'm not sure that everyone was even on the same page as to
as to what that is
When it was being discussed in the in the council meeting
and and how that would look I I understand how the
performance requirements of picking up the bikes and rebal
ancing them to those locations works and
Showing the users in app where those locations are so that
they return the bikes to those spots
But I don't know if that was a notion that was presented by
one of the companies
in the draft phase of everything and
sort of shook out differently in that that company did not
choose to apply or what but
It it is something that that spin is capable of doing and
and we showed how in our
application
But there there may be some some confusion on that going
forward until everyone's on the same page
So happy to answer any questions as well. Thank you
So you have a
Memorandum of understanding with both universities. Yes,
sir, and your plan right now is for how many bikes at each
campus
right now
25 bikes at TWU and
Still ongoing communications with UNT plan to start with
100
And ensure that no more than 100 bikes ever leave the
campuses and are on any city right-of-way
So you you're hoping to keep them on campus and not
So what if a university student wants to ride downtown,
right?
There are some predetermined locations that we put out in
the application for at the DCTA stop and the square
So there are some virtual bike corrals that we've proposed
where students can ride into town
I'm just saying that our operations will work to make sure
that we don't have any anything more than the cap on
city right of way
Is it your understanding that that they can't ride
throughout the rest of the city
No, they're they're more than free to ride throughout the
city. Oh, they are free. Yes, sir. I
Didn't hear the question. I was just I was wondering if
there was some
Notion that they weren't allowed to go anywhere in the city
. No, they'll be they'll be for service for
community members and students alike, okay
So we do have a presentation following this and it's with a
University of North Texas
Proposal that kind of outlined some of these operating
issues
We can go into detail at that point in time if you wish or
we can handle that at this point in time
but the theory would be as Mr. Petty John indicated is that
there's a set number to
Service or provide the level of service has requested by
the University of North, Texas
We would expect that some of those migrate off campus.
However, as Mr. Petty John said their their tracking and
GPS
capability
would keep that number below the 100 within the city of
city of Denton right of way and
Meet both the spirit and letter of the law of the ordinance
And you're you're
locating
Technology is it how accurate is it? It's as accurate as
any GPS out there
It's and it's a GPS module as well
So, you know sometimes when you're driving your car in one
light of the road
It thinks you're on that next lane over but it's it's as
close as GPS can get. Okay
Well, I was kind of just crunching some numbers because the
cap discussion is interesting to me
I tend to agree with you that if we have you know, let's
say there are four vendors in town and they all want 500
bikes
To me that seems like some over saturation and it actually
could serve to prevent other vendors from entering the
market
So I don't really view it as kind of a let the market
decide situation if you have the ability to just completely
Put as many bikes as you want. I mean the biggest operator
will win in that situation
So I was looking at the student populations at Texas Women
's University, which is 15,000 now
I thought it was still 11,000 which just shows you how
behind the times I am and then
UNT's that I think it was 37,000 plus probably grad
students as well
so
Thought it was interesting that you know UNT is getting
25 and then
I'm sorry TWU is getting 25 and then UNT which is just
slightly
More than twice the population is getting four times as
many bikes, but I'm assuming that has to do with the size
of the campus
How spread out it is and things of that nature. Yeah, not
trying to question your business judgment
I'm just trying to kind of figure out the math here
So then we know when I kind of transpose it to the city of
Denton where population of 140,000 people
But our kind of adult and mobile population is
significantly less than that. So I
Mean, I'm really interested in a conversation about how
many bikes can be supported in the city. I just I don't see
that
you know if
If UNT is getting a hundred bikes for instance
Tlb is getting 25 bikes. I can't see that the city of Dent
on with a total population of 140,000 would ever need
You know a thousand bikes, right? But that's that's my
perspective and I think it's shared by some people on
council
I'm totally I'm really open to the idea of having this
discussion though, because I think the data will help a lot
And that was kind of our goal with the ordinance was to
have a way to figure out
You know where where the heat maps are I'm okay with the N
DA's
As well as far as I'm concerned. It's your proprietary
information
So that's kind of where I stand at the present moment
I certainly I'm kind of surprised to hear that our
ordinance would really have a huge effect on UNT or TWU
because their state
organizations, I
Mean, I guess to the extent that there's outflow of the
bikes, but ultimately we don't regulate anything that
happens at UNT
so the issue is
That we have city didn't ride away within the campuses
And so that's where that's where the regulatory component
from our ordinance would play in and that's how whether it
be
TWU or UNT could have something more than the 100 bikes
that our ordinance if if those bikes are generally
stationed
on their campus at you know particular locations, let's say
the library or
Education or business building and then maybe out near some
of the different larger parking lots that the commuters use
So you'd said that
Heald had advocated for a single vendor on RFP program.
Tell me about your experience
Are you operating in both environments and why were you
advocating for the single vendor?
I was advocating for it here because I think one vendor
serving all the all three
Entities makes makes the most sense
It prevents the the spillage from too many bikes going on
to campus off of campus
It's a lot easier to control just one company and then the
back and forth on what goes in is a much easier process
You're not having to hear from several different
Competing interests at the same time. We've done
Like he said, we've done every possible regulatory thing
imaginable across the country whether it's a single vendor
RFP
Linebike and spin have jointly won RFPs in in a few
locations
Other places there is no regulation
Or they're working on it like Dallas and it just becomes a
free-for-all. So I thought that a
Single vendor where we can work closely
together and you select the one that
presents the best solution for the Denton area made the
most sense at the time and and if you
Would guess at a number of total bikes
Getting at what is we Gary was saying total bikes given the
universities and in the general city population
What do you think would be the right number for them at
least to start off with?
I think it would be less than 500 less than 500
Well, I don't think we have any other questions, but thank
you for the presentation appreciate it
Did you have any other presentations for this item mark,
okay, so
You're wanting direction or what? Did you want to go ahead
and have the discussion with you and T and then give
direction on both
You know that might be more beneficial
Then I'll go ahead and call let's see. It's item
See receive a report hold a discussion and provide
direction regarding University of North, Texas's bike share
pilot proposal
Now it's a now it's afternoon good afternoon
madam chair members of the committee
mark Nelson director of transportation
We have included in your backup we a proposal from the
University of North, Texas
As stated in the backup material, we've been working with
the University of North, Texas on trying to identify an op
different options on on how we might roll out bike share up
opportunities
Both here in the community as well as on campus to serve
the the different needs of our different of our agencies
We met last week
Again with the University of North, Texas
They have refined a proposal and that proposal essentially
is
At the heart of it
At the heart of it they are trying to address an issue
Which is essentially abandoned bikes and bike clutter on on
their campus
And I'm remiss before I go much further. I did want to
introduce the folks from the University of North, Texas. We
do have
Dr. Clark
VP in the administration and then
Chris Phelps director of transportation and then
Grant hell with with the transportation department as well
and
Back back to the proposal
We met with University of North, Texas. They they
You've got the proposal in the backup. But again what they
're looking at trying to do is provide
Really two issues here is provide additional transportation
Options on their campus as well as reduce the overall
clutter on campus
typically what happens
And I might have contributed to it to my alma mater and
that is a student will bring a bike and
they'll use that bike and
maybe forget about it after two or three or four months and
then
Maybe never get back to it and there it stays locked up to
a particular
bike rack or in some cases a lamp post or a
Park bench, whatever the case may be
University of North, Texas has and they're what their
experience has been is at the end of
The spring semester each year. They have to go through and
figure out
How how how to address that issue to clean up their campus
make it presentable make it safe
I mean, they're tripping hazards
it's just it's just not a good scene or
Situation that they would like to to continue and so their
interest is is you know, quite frankly
entering into an agreement with spin
Who would serve as the logistics arm of their program UNT
would own the program essentially and
It would provide initially they roll out with about a
hundred bikes
But may push up to 250 bikes and those bikes would be pre
positioned or or located at
designated
areas
Where you might see higher
traffic
Obviously the parking lots for those students that are comm
uting from off campus
There may be locations around the student union the
education building business business build their parking
lot of internal parking lots as well
but they would have those identified and
There would not necessarily be restricted to be utilized at
those locations
But based on their experience they know that they've got a
certain number or volume of students moving from one
location to the other
So in the morning as part of the rebalancing program
They'd have those those bikes and assets stationed where
they needed to be and their proposal that talks about
having those bikes
rebalanced at 7 a.m. Every morning so
For 8 o'clock classes students rolling in it into those
parking lots at 715 730 or maybe 759
They have a transportation mode to get to the next to their
class wherever they may be going
They understand that that those bikes are going to migrate
off campus as well and so spin has then
agreed to as part of their
Preliminary agreement or contract would be again to re
balance those back to those locations again as mr. Petty
John indicated
They've got the they've got the technology. They got the
capability to get those bikes back to
central mass locations if you will
Sure, are there going to be a handful of them onesies twos
ies that may not make it back
Out of the city of Denton right away or from different
retail areas that may be outlying areas initially
We'd expect that but generally speaking
The overall program would be to get get those bikes back on
to campus at usable locations
Where they'd be a benefit to to the students and to the
university and again one of the other aspects of it is is
it being a customized
program in terms of the color of the bike and so that
they they know
That that particular bike belongs to that particular
operator which is associated with the University of North,
Texas now
Texas Women's University has a similar branding aspect. I
don't think they're planning to go with green. I think they
like a much
Different color maroon a
Couple of us in the room like the maroon color
Anyhow point is is they've got they've got a branding
You know a market brand for each of the programs and you
know at the University of North, Texas
Madame chairs you state is going to be a little bit more
robust a little bit larger campus in terms of
physical area how it stretched across
You know universe, you know across
35 and then certainly just told number of students
I'd like to invite dr. Clark up here to maybe finish or
clean up anything that I left on unsaid or or
misstated
But then the two of us could answer questions that you may
have if that's okay with the committee
Good afternoon, my name is Alan Clark
I'm a graduate from TWU and I'm a graduate from UNT. I've
been here 22 years
and this is exciting times for the city and to see the
growth in the management of that taking place just
Want to add some statistics to mr. Nelson statements?
The University itself we're just right over 38,000 students
. Where do we want to get to?
In the next five years around 45,000 students. We've got
about 7,000 employees
We have 6,600 students living on campus right now in in our
dorms
If you go walking across campus and and I had mr
Hale go do this and just count every bike for that day we
came up with
1,091 bikes and they were chained to everything if it was
standing they were chained to it
What I'd really appreciate the opportunity to do is when
the parents come for orientation this year to be able to
say don't bring your bike
Just leave your bike there and the difficulty for a student
is they go one place
And they got to go get that back to go someplace else
I want to provide the opportunity
You know what just grab another bike and go where you want.
You never have to worry about getting that bike back to
your home base
Some other things that have affected us this past year
We lost over 1,100 parking spaces and that's due to
construction and it's good
I we have some wonderful things new CVAD building going in
new
Resident hall going in new dining facility going in and
interest to the campus being built
But with that we lost 1,100 spaces. And so how do you
overcome that? Well, you go build right now
550 spaces on the other side of 35 at the very back of the
Apogee Stadium
That means the students are going to need to commute and
and what we've discussed with spin is the ability
for to have our bikes out there in
Actual cages at that point. So ours is kind of what we want
to represent as a hybrid
Out in the parking lots. There is a station where those
bikes are at students can take them into campus
They use them they move about wherever they want to migrate
throughout the day
but a large portion of those bikes go back out to those
places where our
individuals can come in and
remotely park and you know our buses
I
took over parking and transportation
three years ago and
One of my first things that I asked to be done is that our
buses no longer go down Highland Street where all the
students
Are crossing and so that means we're going back on Eagle
and just circling the campus and with that we need this
ability for just this
Mobility to where the bus stops are but also a good partner
to come in and be able to grab the bikes each night
Get them back out to the locations and what we've talked
about and is the opportunity to
Reward the students in some way if you'll help us take the
bikes back out there
When you when you go ride a bike back out to the parking
lot and help us get it there
We need a reward system
The proposal right now is that that these bikes would they
would be green and then be black and they'd be branded with
UNT
Logos and UNT phone numbers if somebody's concerned about a
bike being someplace
UNT will actually be paying for all of the any costs
associated with the ridership
and so I
Personally, I'd like to get down to where you go count
Maybe there's 200 bikes on campus that belong to
individuals, but I think in doing so
We're gonna approach the number of 250 bikes that we're
gonna be looking at at midfall
What we have talked about is working through this process
with the city of Denton
Would and and I think it would be helpful
But us as UNT even going through the permitting process
with the city
Make sure all the bikes are permitted through that and we
've had the opportunity to work with the city there
And for us to be able to gather the data on a daily basis
and know where our bikes are being used what the heat maps
are showing for usage but us as a
Smaller part of the city of Denton to be able to
communicate that and work with the mobility council
and how we can
Ensure our bikes are serving our clientele and not cl
uttering your streets
but
With that I have a bike clutter problem today that we're
trying to solve
So the opportunity would be hopefully in this summertime a
hundred bikes out to see how they're used how they're going
where they're being placed at
Having a major communication campaign for to influence
students faculty and staff
But my goal would be to move into the 200 250 range by
October November as we're getting more students on campus
And they're recognizing the need for mobility and
transportation
So that that's kind of some numbers of statistics where we
're at and I'll be glad to answer any questions that you
have
Thanks for joining us dr. Clark my pleasure. I was looking
through the UNT report or the proposal
I guess in the backup and one thing that
Intrigues me is how many how many bikes are left over that
you have to impound at the end of the semester?
we
It's in the hundreds that we impound each semester and you
have to go through an announcement process and
then you have to go through a
Auction and they're auctioned off in lots because most of
them their value
probably by the time they've been
Abandoned they're in the ten to five dollar ranges as far
as that some of the things we would like to do though
is
I'd like to put out an RFP to
the bike
community in the bike stores here and see if they can help
us with the possibility at least the ones that are
abandoned if
we can go in and refurbish them make them available to
Maybe folks who are a little less fortunate at schools or
any of the places where children arrive at
So we use those to recycle back into the community. But yes
today
It's it's in the hundreds that we end up getting each year
and having to go auction off
So let's say that you know, there's 250 line bikes on
campus
I'm assuming come May spin. I'm sorry spin bikes apologies
I'm assuming in May
There are there's not gonna be a need for 250 bikes at that
point. So what is the plan for?
Come summertime with those bikes
The plan would be to back off that service. We as the city
are concerned with bikes just sitting right?
One thing that would be helpful in our instance even with
the 250 they're in
Corraled stations in our parking lot. So they're not just
being we abandoned
You know a hundred bikes because there's no ridership at
this time and and we'll certainly work with spin to bring
back and
Rebalance that and have the ridership numbers. I would like
to make an offer on
On behalf of UNT. We'll be looking at our data as well
if there's a point where we want to do joint data
collection and
Research on that information using statistical packages
would be glad to help with that
I'm gonna reminisce for a little bit excellent nine
I'm about to go off council after nine years and when I ran
nine years ago
was approached during the campaign season by some bike
advocates mainly associated with UNT and
They did a lot to educate me
Because I was concerned about quality of life in the city
an active lifestyle healthy lifestyle
More bicycling
opportunities and people feeling safe doing so seemed to be
a
worthwhile cause to champion
So I became the bike guy excellent excellent lately. I've
become the cemetery guy
different story, but I
Had anticipated either one of those when I first ran
One of the the problems about being the bike guy on City
Council is that when
Some bike riders do stupid things
People call me as if I'm responsible
And I did a lot to educate myself and apparently some of
the most stupid things done by bike riders are males
aged 18 to 25
Who think that they're invincible?
and I was actually at a national park and found out that
That same demographic presents problems for them
That's who they have to rescue most often
So I have tried to advocate for a long time that when you
do your orientations your freshman orientations
that possibly you would work with the city of Denton and
us providing some
bike safety education
So that that some of those folks would think about because
it's it's unsettling
when when I'm driving a vehicle a
Motorized vehicle and I am suddenly startled by a person in
black on the black bike without any reflectors or any
lights
Because it would really be bad if I was the one that ran
over a bicyclist
It'd be bad if anybody did but I would I would feel
particularly embarrassed by the whole thing
So if if we could work with you guys on a bike education
program
I would be very grateful for that because I think it would
be better
For the the safety of the students that are riding bikes
and it would be better for us as a community
to be able to encourage bike riding without getting some
pushback by people who
Actually are somewhat antagonistic towards sharing the road
with bicyclists
The other thing is you said and this may be for mark that y
'all would probably need to ramp up to 250 bikes
mark how does that mean that we might need to
The council might need to come back and do some revisions
to the ordinance to to facilitate that
you know council member that's that's
that's certainly in play, but our
our interpretation of that would be that
it could
Because it's it because it's going to be on the University
of North Texas campus and it's not going to be
impacting or at least it should not be
impacting the city right of ways, which is where the
ordinance was really crafted for
We had anticipated
Something like that from the universities. How would we how
could we enforce a an ordinance on state property? And so
that's why I was drafted for to address the
The right of way which we do have oversight
So, you know certainly we could bring that forward in terms
of an informal staff report find out what the pleasure of
the council is
If it's something that this particular committee wants to
push up to the council as a recommendation certainly we can
go that route
But you know at present what we look at
quite frankly would be moving forward with an interlocal
agreement that kind of outlines that and
As dr. Clark indicated, you know, they're they're wanting
to get moving fairly quickly
So that'd be something that would be coming through within
the next three to six weeks so they they could be in the
middle of June
deploying bikes
Well the notion of having
Some share a bike share that was would be available to get
people from the the downtown Transit Center
either to the square or
To the campus because I happen to know folks
They're actually faculty members that that ride the train
to Denton but
Are not always interested in riding the bus from the
Transit Center over to campus
They walk or they'd like to ride a bike and if they if we
had bikes there
That would be available, but I'm not sure if if the plan as
I'm understanding it would position
You know ten bikes at the Transit Center and ten bikes on
the square
well, I would tell you that I've seen some communications
going back and forth between our
bike and ped office
spin and with
Christina Holcomb VP of planning over at you know
DCTA they are looking into that in terms of where they'd be
able to station a number of those bikes
But yes, I think they're certainly DCTA is open to that
And dr. Clark is there anything that you need from the city
in order to
Facilitate or to to support your your efforts for the bike
share program on campus
I think that the main thing is that we are
good citizens to the city and
And and as stated we need to outline the interlocal
agreement
Get that prepared
And I think that we need to come to an agreement does you
know does UNT and having these bikes?
Branded as UNT bikes and also for us to look for the
opportunity to actually go higher than the 100
Do we go through the permitting process?
I think that needs to be clarified and that's been the
recommendation up to this point and have no process or no
problems with doing
that but just need clarity on and we will begin on the work
on the interlocal agreement from
Existing so that we have had and start drawing that
together
but I think the clarity on the permitting process of how we
go do this and
We we have agreed to come together with a strategic bicycle
plan that is laid into the work of the city and
Quite honestly as you're stating
We don't want our citizens to know that they've gone from
UNT property to the city and you have to do something
different
But at night we need spin to go make sure that work
reconfigured each day to support the campus
now we do have
178 parking spaces that we've come into agreement out at
Medical City
and
Certainly will work with DCTA as a part of this for
Stationing bicycles at the locations for that work with DC
TA
And so we are working to get further and further away from
campus
But we're going to count on spin to make sure they're in
locations each day as the day begins
450 parking spaces out at the Medical City Hospital that
that would be used by
Students or faculty. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I misspoke Med
Park. Yes. I'm sorry. I
Misspoke thank you, sir. Okay. Thank you
At this point, thank you so much
Well, we were supposed to give staff direction
Sure, sure
You know, it's very comfortable here we can we can talk
about many different things
I do want to tell you the first thing at orientation. We
asked the kids, please
Don't walk with your cell phone and take your earbuds out
and quit stepping in front of bicycles and cars
And so it is something that we work towards their safety to
understand you you had to be aware of what's going on
So I would welcome the opportunity to ensure
the discussion of
How we have a safe communication of transportation for
bicycles is important and we will work towards that
Well, the city actually has a bunch of bike safety broch
ures and a whole box a large box full of giveaway
lights that can be attached to bicycles that blink and and
Help help people see them at night. We will have
approximately
10,000 new students coming on campus and we welcome any
Anything's that that we can to promote safety with bicycle.
We'll have our people talk to your okay. Thank you.
Appreciate it
I'm just curious if that
Notice is working better with the 18 to 22 year old
demographic because it doesn't work with my 14 years
What if what's working better the earbuds and look?
Well, you know, I'm kind of it's hard to not consider your
own personal experiences when you're up here
I was a bike commuter in college. I mean I
Loved my bike like that was I took care of it and I can't
imagine abandoning a bike, but I don't know
I guess different strokes different folks did your bike
have a name? No
I'm not weird
Actually, my new bike has a name the white cloud so yeah, I
am weird
Well, I guess the question then becomes
If I think what I'm getting from the interlocal discussion
is that
We don't necessarily have the ability to regulate something
that happens on state property
But it would be beneficial to have a path forward even
though you know, we're two separate entities and right
It's you know, it's more
As much as anything to outline the program
What's expected of the University of North Texas and their?
Logistics partner spin and then for you and T on our end to
know what's expected of us in terms of what would be
required
Obviously a permit would be required, but it but maybe the
interlocal agreement would
Wouldn't make that permit not necessary because you now
have a separate agreement that outlines
You know how we would how we would interface with the
University of North Texas
So I guess the concern then it sounds like is well what
happens if there's more than a hundred bikes at the city
somewhere spread around the city
From for when you roll out the 250 number
I don't even know how we would well
Madam chair, I think what we would do is maintain them 100
in terms of being within the city of Denton right away
And so that's ease that that's feasible. They can still
station their their bikes
whether there it's a regular spin bike or or a
UNT branded by at
DCTA or other points of interest just as long as that
number doesn't go over a hundred now
Might that number go over a hundred between say?
530 to 8 p.m. At night
Potentially, but what's that? What's that overall number?
Maybe in the 10 to 20 percent over that number?
But certainly by 0 700 the next morning
Sure, that's gonna be back down to an acceptable number of
something a well less than 100 bikes
Well, I'm okay with proceeding with interlocal or at least
taking it up to council to have that discussion
I think that that would be great direction because I think
that that the interlocal agreement means that the city and
that the City Council is
Aware that they're gonna be actually more than a hundred
bikes
from that vendor
potentially potentially but that that
There's an effort to to control that
And and then they're aware of it and and then if they're it
appears that there's a need to make an adjustment in the
ordinance itself
That could be done
either either
When that interlocal agreement comes up or at a later time,
right? I would expect that that the council would
would be interested in bringing a a
Quick work session item right as part of that as part of
that discussion sometime in the May
And they'll be even slower without two of the sharpest
members going off council
The we'll miss your leadership, I'm sure
You'll miss the the stupid stories
One thing I would suggest is so so often. Here's one of the
few things
I've learned in nine years is that when council simply
reacts
To a situation or is doing it by reacting
We tend to not maybe do as well and that we need to think
in terms of what our goals are
Every time that we make an action and for me when we're
talking about about
Bike share I
Think that our goal is to allow for bike share as a
transportation option
for students and residents of the city of Denton
But to allow it in a way that is respectful of private
property and
Does not interfere with other mobility options
Particularly
Interfering with pedestrian facilities in other words
blocking
Sidewalks and things like that. So if we can if we can find
a path forward
That that that allows even more people to have the
opportunity to participate in bike share program
But do it in a way that's respectful private property
respectful of
the right of ways I
Think that everybody ends up winning
and so if we can maybe keep those goals in mind and
reference back to them and and and check and see if if if
if those goals are
The goals that the entire council or the consensus of
council wants to work towards because it's easier for you
guys to
craft
Policies if you know what what are the end goal is
So if I'm understanding correctly
We have direction on item C which is that we'd like to go
ahead and have the interlocal agreement
reviewed by City Council
on item B I
Hear you know a kind of broad like 30,000 foot view of the
goals
Are there any specific items?
regarding the ordinance that
I would recommend that that that we come back maybe that
the
this time next year that that it become a part of an agenda
item for mobility or council to come back and review a
year's worth of experience on the campus and
a
Review of the ordinance itself and if if the ordinance as
it stands is appropriate if it needs to be adjusted
if it needs to be changed from an ordinance that allows
just any number of vendors to come to a
Single a single source through a RFP
You know, I think that that that this time next year there
will be a lot more experience a lot more knowledge and
Some decisions could be made
Are you suggesting them that the existing pilot program
which is a six month?
Program that sunsets in the September 2018 time frame may
be extended
To the spring of 2019. You know, I don't I don't think we
're gonna know anything
but all we know by September of 2018 is that
that the bikes bailed I
Don't know that we're gonna get much more information
between understood. Okay
So definitely coming back with
you know a follow-up on the interlocal in
A year's time as far as the actual ordinance itself. I mean
, I'm trying to figure out exactly what
Changes might need to be made and
What I heard I think was data
The bike corralling issue perhaps
And bike caps
I'm okay with sending that back up to council. It'll be a
new council. I won't be there. It's the best of luck
Can I ask a question of the committee so as far as the
making potential amendments to the ordinance to
Extended additional say till next spring
We would need to bring this probably back to mobility just
with those amendments and those suggested changes
And then take it before the council, correct
Just just making sure yeah
I'm probably you know with I think the thing that I
remember the
most from our discussion was the intense interest in the
bike corralling and
Keeping the right-of-ways clear because it's not just for
pedestrians. It's for people who have limited mobility to
disabilities
Or you know, they might trip on a bike
I think somebody in Dallas actually did injure their ACL or
something really horrible and it was somebody who was
vision impaired
So, I mean, I think we have obligation to keep those
pathways clear. So with the understanding that you know
The overarching direction is I think maintain is the same
we have to keep right-of-ways clear and I think
correct
Holy wholeheartedly concur. I think one of the things we
can do is staff is we can incorporate a informal staff
report and when an upcoming
Friday packet with this information knowing that North
Texas is pursuing down this path with with the with that M
OU and certainly
Texas women's as well with with spin
Incorporate those those points and an ISR and also lay out
that in an upcoming
mobility committee meeting will be bringing forward some
recommended amendments to the ordinance because
By the time September comes around the semester will have
just started
You're not gonna have a whole lot if you really much data
to really get back to the city. So
The path forward is to make the extension and then just see
how that how that plays out
And I think we we had a discussion about doing an RFP
process
I thought that that was a part of our
Ordinance that there would be we would be looking into an
RFP process at the end of the six at the end of the
Yeah
Okay
Yes, the one other thing is that when when there's a
revisit at the mobility committee if we could have
Representatives from UNT and TWA you here to kind of share
with us their experience. I think that would that would be
beneficial
Thank you have your direction any other questions for us
Not on this particular item. Okay, great. Well in that case
, we'll move on to item D, which is
Yes, may I suggest a take a couple of yeah, we'll take a
little break so people can you don't want to hear all of
our
other business
We'll take a five minute break
Okay, we're back from our break we're gonna take these
items a little bit out of order to accommodate mr. Pulsar
schedule and
Just because we're interested item F receive a report hold
a discussion and make recommendation
Make a recommendation regarding past and pending actions of
the RTC
So this is a follow-up from a
well
This is a follow-up from an item that was considered last
month
it's been an item in front of and that item is
635 how to advance the 635 East project, which is a
capacity project from
US 75 East to I 30 and Mesquite so
75 in Dallas to
I30 and Mesquite and it's essentially adding additional
Additional main lanes as well as the local or the regional
plan is to add these
Managed toll lanes which also help fund that so with that
madam chair
I can go up and walk through a presentation very quickly
that was given at RTC and
Then have mr. Pulsar kind of walk through some additional
information that was just presented
Within the last 24 to 48 hours that was not included in the
backup material and as you know
There is a special call meeting tomorrow
Thursday
The 19th a special call meeting of the RTC to consider this
particular item
So
Again
Mark Nelson director of transportation. This is a
presentation that was provided to the RTC last week at
their normal
regularly scheduled
RTC meeting for April and
Essentially what this presentation will show and I'm going
to go through it very quickly
It shows a handful of different options that were
identified by RTC staff in terms of
What what
What are the different
How might they be able to advance the project from a no-
build scenario to a scenario?
which
RTC staff has has advocated from very very early on there's
essentially 12 different options
So with that I'm going to move through that very quickly.
This information is in your backup. It's also then been put
online
So this again is a no-build again quickly just taking a
look at it. It is from 75 here
generally on the north easterly side of Dallas to
Mesquite at
I-30 and this is the existing conditions now. There's HOV
lanes in there now
They're told if you don't have X number of folks in your
vehicle. So if you're not an HOV you get
You get you get a toll. That's a critical point
This corridor already has a toll-managed lane in it while
we're asking to do is that a secondary toll-managed lane?
the officials that we've met with
To negotiate this issue. We're not even aware that there
was currently a toll-managed lane in this corridor
So this is option two it really just starts bringing
forward
how you might be able to do the overall project and
These are non toll in the middle not you go ahead and add
the additional capacity additional
general purpose lane in each direction and then adding the
express toll lane down the middle two lanes in each
direction just this express lane and
This is those lanes will be free to travel on and they
would have fewer
entrances and exits and it's called an express lane and
there's only one
Express lane that exists in the entire state of Texas and
that's the elevated section of 35 through Austin
So when you envision how this would work and you put a
grade to whether it works well or not
Imagine the elevated section of 35 in Austin
Moving on to option three this essentially provides the
additional
Capacity in terms of a general purpose lane in each
direction. However
Here in the median it is not it's not developed
So it essentially is a leaveout for a future decision to be
made or funding
to advance a project that may or may not come at some point
down the road
Fairly similar situation
In option four
And I guess the reason there's different options that all
look alike from a cross-section is those are different ways
of funding
the 10 and
2 frontage so the these cross sections be
Concurrent to the options, but the options were different
ways of funding a family of projects. There's like six
families of projects
Here's where it starts changing a little bit in this
particular family where you're only doing a certain section
basically from
75 down to the Royal Miller intersection here and then you
have a different you have a different
option east of there to six to thirty so this
Basically says in the original environmental assessment it
called for toll manage lanes down to Royal Miller and
Express lanes all the way down to 30 in this particular
alternative
You would build the toll manage lanes to Royal Miller and
you leave blank leave it open in the green section
So there would be no express lanes there to further
decision
So does the does this option option six the blue section
Does that blue section pretty much resemble what we see to
the west on 635?
Yes, sir
so what happens on 635 to the west of there is as you come
into the
LBJ Express corridor, it's got six lanes of toll manage
lane three in each direction
And so as you get closer to 75 it drops down to two four in
each direction
And then as you come around an existing
After you cross 75 it drops down to one. So it goes three
two one what the blue segment in this would add
additional two for a total of four
So we'd continue that cross section from D&T over to 75
which is the four toll management
And those are toll managed lanes in the current
north part of 635 that are
Both directions all day long all day 24 hours and there's
are going to be a point we talk about
24 hours a day seven days a week for a reason and we'll get
into that okay
Option six John
It's just an alternate way of being able to do the same
thing because you'll see it says open median for future
development
So we would do the same thing as option six. It would just
be funded differently
Option eight same thing. It's a different alternative
And here is where we get to it a different
Scenario where we would build to Royal Miller the toll
managed lanes and then from Royal Miller down
We'd open them up and build them as an express lanes
Okay in text that I mean cog would pay for the
express lanes
Text that would pay for I mean the toll managed lanes and
text that would pay for the
non-tolled express lanes
This is the actual alternative that the
RTC passed our
Resolution last year is called 1701
That says that we're going to told all four lanes all the
way in 30 from 75 to 30
and in doing that is
Part of actually a funding scheme to pay for yes, sir
We'll split those hairs in a minute in 711 is just simply
another way of doing the same thing from a different to
lling
A different financing mechanism
same insane
And that's all we have on the okay on the documentation
other than the
so the the conversations that are
Being had is is that there's about anywhere between
355 million in a tiffy alone is needed to be able to do
this alternative
In order to do the tiffy alone the feds require you to toll
the facility
24 hours a day seven days a week they want the maximum
amount of revenue
underlying their loan
If the state was willing to go ahead and pay the on top of
the 300 million that we're asking for them go ahead and
Pay the additional
355 million
The RTC could then turn around and only operate the toll
managed lanes as a congestion management tool
Which means it would be in the a.m. In the p.m. Peak
periods the rest of those alternate times would be free
Weekends would be free because you only want to use the
toll component as a congestion management tool
That's why even if they were willing to pay for it. The
region doesn't want to give up and turn those into
general purpose lanes because imagine
you've got seven lanes of traffic because
We'll get this with the conversation. We have a lieutenant
governor. The question was why don't we
Go ahead and just build all seven free lanes and let
everybody drive where they want
And the answer is is that everybody when you have seven
lanes, they're gonna spread out into seven lanes
You've got eight lanes will spread out into eight lanes and
you don't have any
differential movements through the corridor what these
managed lanes do during congestion periods is act as a as a
Pressure release valve and so what happens is you have a
corridor that has a higher level of speed that can make it
to that
location quicker and faster and more predictable and
Even when you don't drive on the managed lanes by having
them there the general purpose lanes end up
Increasing their travel time speed. So the information we
have on 35
North Terrain Express and LBJ is that the p.m. Peak and a.m
. Peak period
Lowest level of traffic speed average drops to 50 miles an
hour from the posted 60 before they were introduced in
those corridors
They were into the 25 30 miles an hour. So even if you
never take the toll lanes
You're benefiting
Second reason why we couldn't do this just turn them to
seven GPS is because as a non-attainment area
North Texas is required to
Before they add any single occupant vehicle
Capacity improvement they have to demonstrate that
congestion management
Alternatives don't exist. They clearly exist in this
corridor by using the toll managed lanes
And so we we would have to buck the feds on that
So the last week there was a resolution that was going to
be passed that basically says we're standing by our
1701 policy for this alternative
because of air quality issues because of conformity because
of federal law and
Because it's with the will of the people in this corridor
and then they come back and they describe exactly
What it is by putting into words what that?
exhibit
Shows somewhere along the way
The chairman of the RTC Rob Frankie had some conversations
with the chairman of the Commission
Chairman bug and he says hold off on the resolution for a
week
We need a little bit more time to work something out with
the governor
Wasn't really clear on what it was, but we found that
afterwards that somewhere along the way bug and the
governor realized
There's already a toll managed lane operating in the
corridor
Right and so the compromise was going to be hey, we're
going to let you go back with one
and
the reason the one toll managed lane doesn't work is
because
There are people that get into that toll managed lane and
actually drive
the speed limit on the general purpose side
And the toll managed lane has a higher speed and if you get
in and you're paying a toll
And you're stuck behind somebody who's driving the same
speed as the GP's
You can't get around them and you can't get out for a while
So it depresses the use of that corridor and so if you have
two lanes
We've seen that where you have alternate additional
capacity those managed lanes get used more so
Essentially they were going to try to get us to agree to
just go back with what we had and there obviously that's
not going to work
for the region and so
Chairman Frankie has made several calls to chairman bug
Over the last Friday through today and they've not been
returned a councilman climbing from city of Dallas. Who's
you know
Significantly impacted by this corridor has made multiple
calls to the chairman. They have not been returned
Commissioner each met with lieutenant governor Dan Patrick.
I call lieutenant Dan and
Patrick compared the managed lanes
I mean the the managed lanes in North Texas to the lanes on
the Katy freeway. He said the Katy freeway
lanes
Don't have anybody in them
Well, Commissioner reads is a very astute human being but
he's not an expert on transportation
So he wasn't aware of the fact that what's on the Katy free
way is an HOV lane is where the region was 20 years ago
Right. Nobody uses an HOV lane. So he's comparing the Katy
freeway
Experience to what we have up here. So he's clueless on
what told manage lanes are
He doesn't he's not aware of the fact that can air quality
conformity issues
require the regions to do certain things and
To do what the lieutenant governor wants will require us to
violate federal law. And so
We're gonna be drafting a letter for him
And basically give back all the stuff that we put out in
these presentations before
The blue-collar worker as he calls them benefits if he
never touches it
There's air quality issues that we have to consider and the
HOV lane truly doesn't work
He's right and that's why we're building told manage length
. And so we're gonna try to
basically
Put it in writing that he doesn't know what he's talking
about and then move on
And so tomorrow
You're putting it in writing to educate him. I
Thought that's what I said
Well, see the answer the reason I didn't say it that way
because I do not believe he's gonna be able to be educated
Oh, and the reason is and this the reason is this is my
opinion not yours
Abbott and Patrick are looking at their political careers
and Abbott's worried that Patrick's trying to get to the
right of them and Patrick's trying
To reward to make sure that he stays to the right for the
next cycle
And so in the conversation each the conversation we've had
with the governor lieutenant governor
They both asked what's what's the other guy doing?
Right, and so they're they're vying against each other and
has nothing to do with the policy. So
We're gonna respond to check the box, but we don't think he
's gonna learn anything from it
So we just have to move forward and where I think the RTC
is going tomorrow
Is they're gonna affirm the resolution is originally
written and I think that you're gonna hear a city of Dallas
suggests that
The state of Texas is usurping some of the federal
authority that the RTC has and the only way to
Resolve that is through
litigation
In federal court, yes, sir
So that's where I was last month could occur
I'm really worried about the five million dollars a month
project cost that's going up on the 635 project because
litigation doesn't take a
Month that takes 17 25 months may take so long to resolve
they'll dig their heels in I
Think we will win will prevail because they don't even have
legislative authority to act the way that they're acting
But it's a political move for them
To behave this way as you mentioned
So what happens to the 635 project in terms of the funding?
because all of this goes I mean the reason the region the
region is interested because
All of our projects are tied to a large pot of money and it
affects us indirectly or directly in the case of Dallas
What happens when that money is being squandered while we
're?
You know trying to assert our authority
so
The fact that the project escalates in cost
over time I
Was arguing that that was a false
argument to begin with because
all projects
35w is a 1 billion dollar project
By the time we get around actually doing what we're gonna
do there
It's gonna cost significantly more in the future than it is
today every projects that way so I think
That whoever proffered that argument up front
Didn't think it through because nothing cost you
less in the future
So that's gonna occur on all projects the more danger we
have is if we allow the state to come in and dictate
What we know doesn't work for political reasons it'll start
to impact
Property taxes all those other issues and you'll end up
being a war to the state
And so the answer is the best the safest the safest path
forward if we can't get them to do alternative 11 or 12
Is the no build and leave it as it is until they come
around?
John I have appreciated you for my entire nine years in
your frankness and I like your humor, too
In this particular case I would say
It may be helpful to dial back a little bit of the strong
feelings that you have for this reason
Whereas a lawsuit
May eventually get us where we want to be
Remember that when you talk about the political realities
Both of the the the leaders and the governor and the
lieutenant governor
would probably embrace
being sued by a
Liberal big city
In the in the federal government
That that actually is part of their political narrative and
I don't think that that serves as a I
Mean it might finally get us where we want to be but I
think in the process it plays it plays right into what they
want
So so I don't know I'm calling it back
Be I'm gonna work on that I want you to be but well I like
being I like hearing the unvarnished truth from you here
But the person on the phone with the lieutenant governor
wasn't the county judge of Dallas County, which is purple
or blue
It was the county commissioner
Reddish County on the in the region, right?
And he's backed up by Colin and Rockwell County and coffee
can switch all very red
the
Senator that was opposing this that actually has the
project the Republican Party
editorial convention passed a resolution
Demanding toll-managed lanes, so we're not allowing City of
Dallas or
Any of the blue
Colored folks have a conversation because they're that
would play into their hands, right?
My point to you is is that no build
Puts the ball back on their court. Yeah as far as not
performing
So I don't know what I'm just saying that City of Dallas
threw that out there. That's the next step
I don't know if the RTC as a whole is gonna pick that up
But the reality is there isn't gonna be any education of
the governor lieutenant governor
And the chairman of the commission is not even returning
the call because it's not about the facts
It's a political play sure and so I'm willing to just wait
them out
Because when I started this two things one Michael Morris
was still the director of transportation back in 1991
and
Ann Richards, I think was governor then
Governors and lieutenant governors come and go
State reps state senators come and go
The RTC is about as stable organization as you get and will
outlast them too. So I'm not worried about
These two guys or whoever their friends are I'm worried
about RTC
Selling their principles that will damage you drastically
dip more to 635 in the future
and so yeah, I'm
I'll talk I'll tone it down and when I need to
But I never know when that is
Yes, sir
Any other questions on the update on our TSA
We can bring that I'm looking at the caption it says make
recommendation regarding past and pending actions
Of the RTC obviously we don't have time
To get any type of direction from counsel, but we have the
prior resolution that was passed which is in support of
local control
So I'm guessing I have to use my judgment if there's a vote
First basically says support 1701. Yeah
Are you not on
If they can get the TIFI alone covered then
There the region would then go back to because the policy
says it's a congestion management tool
The revenue helps but the congestion management is the key
to what we're trying to get to if we can get them to pay
because
The lieutenant governor goes well, why don't we just paid
you to build all that is toll as a free
We would still need the ability to do the congestion
management and if we can get somebody cover the TIFI alone
Then we operate at four hours in the morning
Four hours in the evening. So that's eight out of 24 and
then
Two days on the weekend are free. And so the majority of
the time those manage lanes are operating
They're free
That's the compromise
Okay, well I'll never understand why I
Mean, it's it's complicated, but it's not rocket surgery
so
Yeah, I just don't understand
People don't understand
How tolls actually work, you know, it's a progressive form
of taxation
It's congestion management. It affects behavior. It affects
air quality
anyway, that's my one final point to just point reason why
these people aren't really wanting to be educated is
because
when the conversation with lieutenant pat lieutenant
governor Patrick
Lieutenant governor Patrick would not allow Commissioner E
ads to have anybody else on the phone staff wise
But he had three other people on the phone with him to give
him information. So he's not looking for
The answer he's looking for the his answer
and so it was it was very it was enlightening because I
think Commissioner Eads was
still thinking that there was a
Statesman involved in this scenario. He's no longer
suffering from that illusion
On our next item for today we have item G
Receive a report hold a discussion and provide direction
Regarding text dots on system projects in the done area to
include 35e and you can go fast on this one
Three items real quick. Okay, I was gonna say rather than
bring those up as we've done in the past
He's gonna just yeah, just do the highlights because the
information is in the backup as well as online
So the major issues that we're dealing with right now is we
are meeting I think next week again
But we meet regularly every two weeks or so on 2181 and
some of these other projects
But 2181 we have some utility conflicts that we're working
through
Everybody's got the shoulder to the wheel and we're trying
to resolve those utility conflicts
But those utility conflicts have a potential to impact the
schedule and so that's why it's critical that we stay on
top of that
Second good news Union Pacific Railroad. It only took us
ten years. They have signed the agreement
Oh, so we are done and done the
Project will let in July. It's fully funded and we're ready
to go on that and again on that topic before
We let the contractor go to work and after it's awarded and
we know who the contractor is the number of hours
In the number of days we will set up a public outreach with
the communities along
277 to make sure they understand what's about to happen
And then 2499 section 5 it is essentially open at Robinson
now one lane in each direction
We did it as a stop condition again, the signal is driving
the schedule
but I think open it up to one lane in each direction has
pulled some of the pressure off of
the folks and I think we're
We're good there your 35 Mayhill
Prinker project you notice that we've been changing lanes
out on the main lanes
In the last week or so the bridge demo, I think went fairly
well
I was out and around Saturday and I didn't see a whole lot
of trauma, but that's done
And so we're got to work on the schedule because they're
still saying December and we're still saying
October and that's when
Buckeyes is telling us they'll be open in October in
October
So that's that's why we need to stay on top of that one
Yes
Madame chair, I would just also let you know that we've we
've been in in conversation with
Texta
Denton area office to see if there's some other
Traffic mitigation options in terms of some additional sign
age along the frontage roads and some right-hand turn lanes
along Dallas Drive to help
the local traffic while the on ramp
specifically the northbound on ramp just north of 288 since
that's going to be down for a minimum of five months
so I think that's going to continue to create some
traffic congestion and anything that we can do whether it's
enhancements to signalization some advanced warning signs
turn lanes
So and so forth. That's what we're trying to work with the
text local office
And I appreciate you. I requested some additional signs for
The reduced lanes over by Mayhill and they were really
quick. I think they went up this morning
So I requested it yesterday day before so not to put too
fine a point on it, but
it's incumbent upon me to
to give you one warner caution on this is that
To the extent that we toy a lot with the traffic control
that that OHL has we give them an excuse
Right to miss their deadline. So we I know we got to
address it
But as we do it, we just need to do it in a manner that
doesn't give them a chance to well
I hope a sign doesn't you'd be surprised really?
Okay, Wow
Learn something watching that I just wanted you to know
that okay that
If it doesn't happen as quickly as you wanted to sometimes
because we have to negotiate the impacts. I see okay
Well, that's good to know
Spread the word. Okay. Well, you're free to go John. Thank
you. Appreciate it
Yeah, thanks John try to keep that blood pressure low
We're gonna jump back to item D which is consider a
resolution
of the City Council of the city of Denton
appointing a primary and alternate member as official
voting reps to the
North Texas cog RTC and providing an effective date and
this is to replace my seat
Since I'll be rolling off
Correct so
It's my part to mention with her
Vacating the position and we've been requested to go ahead
and advance or staff has been requested to go ahead and
advance
Councilmember Ryan as who is the current alternate
Move him forward as or at least
prepare a resolution that would
nominate him or appoint him as the
As the primary representative there's some other options as
to how you address the alternate position here
So I did I kind of jump in for just a second
Councilwoman Briggs did express to me that she'd like to be
the alternate. So I wanted to advance that
Well, if what we need is do we need a vote today to move
this to council? Yes
That's correct. We've got it. I would move to
The resolution as it is to go to council and then council
can add the alternate. Okay, so that's my motion
All right. I'll second that and all in favor
Pass unanimously
Sorry to interrupt you. Do you want to go ahead and explain
the alternates that we have or do you want to explain it to
?
the full council I
Can do that real quick here. Yeah, so in terms of the
alternate options in the past
We've had both city of Denton elected officials
So that's one of the other items is because we've appointed
an elected official
The alternate must be an elected official now. The question
is whether that's an elected official from
City of Denton or could it be from one of the cluster
cities which we represent and again just as a reminder and
it's in the backup
The city of Denton represents the city of Denton RTC seat
represents a cluster of cities to meet population levels
as set forth in the bylaws and those cities are
Moving from the south would be Lake Dallas
Corinth and then Sanger to the north a community needs to
be at least 5,000 population to be represented on RTC
So there's a number of different
Seats on the RTC that are cluster cities or whereby there's
more than one
municipality represented by a single seat now
The RTC has has encouraged
Sharing the seats among those different cities
an important point with the city of Denton RTC seat is that
because the 1990 census when
The city was over 50,000 population. We were awarded
We were established as an urbanized area and therefore
Eligible or required them to create an MPO metropolitan
planning organization
Rather than having all the additional overhead big of
creating said MPO
We elected to join the North Central Texas Council of
Governments and so
As such we have a seat
That is really owned more or less by the city of Denton
McKinney is in the same scenario as is the city of Louis
ville and so each of those cities also
represent cluster cities, but they typically
Hold the seat for their
For their RTC representative from their respective councils
and then from time to time
They will appoint an alternate that that might serve in
fact
Back in the early believe 2012 to 2013 timeframe former
mayor of Highland Village when we represented Highland
Village
Was the alternate for the city of Denton so that that is
also an option
I just wanted to make sure that that was clear and also the
reason why
In the past the city of Denton has really pretty much held
the primary
RTC position just to reiterate that so it
transfer of information if you will
Okay, thank you
So next item is
Out of order here
It's item E receive a report hold a discussion and make a
recommendation to the Dunn City Council requesting
DCTA to dedicate annual funding and the amount of two
hundred fifty thousand to enhance passenger amenities
I thought we already did this at the council level
Do we need to do it here too? I mean we can that's fine. I
just thought it was already done. I
Think then tent was excuse me. It was when was brought up
by
Mr. When mr. Klein came and visited with council
I know there was a directive by council to incorporate that
those additional amenities
I thought that what we were thinking of staff is to bring
forward the item to mobility
To then take formal action so a resolution could be
considered by the full council to basically
Just formalize the request. I think madam chair one of the
other items was is the number of two hundred and
Number of two hundred and fifty thousand was was given but
at the same time the I
Guess staff's understanding was this would provide an
opportunity to discuss if 250 is the correct number if you
wanted to consider another number
if not, we'll still we've got it set for
We've got a teed up for council action on the 24th. So
whatever your pleasure is
We've we've got it listed right now at two hundred and
fifty thousand
Well, I'm okay, I don't know what the right number is
What I would
I'd like I'd like to to a little more
Certainty that that number really reflects what it would
take on a year-to-year basis to
To address the needs, you know is do we need more is is
that really too much?
And I don't know where to get the answer on that
That's part of what I requested when we had our DCT a
meeting was kind of to figure out the process that they
have
of how they put in passenger amenities how it's determined
what's put in and
You know without that process in place on their part, which
they don't have that process in place
I feel like we're not going to be able to reach a number
you just kind of have to pick a number that
Seems reasonable and then dial it back if it's too much
Ramp it up, but they need a chance to develop their process
and without some direction from us
I don't think that they will with with that understanding
if I may I hope I'm not
Coloring outside the lines, but I think moving forward with
the two hundred and fifty thousand number
Would be appropriate whether they embrace that full two
hundred and fifty thousand
I think what you'll find out is that the request will go to
DCTA. They're starting their budget process
much like the city of Denton is and as they as that moves
forward through their
their budget process and decision
You know matrices they will identify
What number is is correct feasible?
It may not be the two hundred and fifty thousand
It may be two fit two hundred and fifty thousand for for
year one and two and then it may back off to something
substantially left
But that's really probably something that would be a
request made by this council and a contributing member city
And that they would formulate a policy based on that
request given that information. I move that we
Forward this resolution on the council
Item H staff reports I didn't miss anything today
So
Very quickly. There's some backup material
Outlining what we've listed as public meetings. We've misst
ated that those are actually public hearings
And so we've got public hearing for 35w
Tomorrow evening there's public meetings later this week
for next week for 380 and then a public meeting is taken
Public hearing is taking place today for DCTA. Actually, I
will be heading over there later this afternoon
That's from three to seven over at the Transit Center if
you want to weigh in on any of their
Any other proposed service changes, so
That's what you have there
Councilmember Briggs had requested some information on the
federal budget. I've included some in for backup
information
That was provided to us from our consultants from
Washington DC Capitol Edge
So if there's some specific questions on that we'd be happy
to come back on and address those or we could set up a
conference
Call and handle those specific questions with the with the
consultant what I will tell you is that
That particular proposal from the administration is not
really gaining much traction
Which was the request that I understood from Councilmember
Briggs on the the switch from 80/20 federal local to the
20/80 in terms of the federal government trying to stretch
their dollar further
Moving on to
To the new business matrix we can walk through that
Let me see if there are any questions do you have any
particular questions about the new business matrix I
Don't either and it seems like several of these are council
member Briggs. Well one of them
That you haven't addressed so the rest are all yours
So I think if we don't have any questions, you just want to
touch the highlights that's fine
Correct. Okay, so hitting hitting on number
Five, I think we've covered that clear that
DCTA passenger amenities
I think we can clear that now in terms of once we move
forward with the resolution
This one item seven or regarding protected bike lanes and
changes since the plan was
Implemented as stated here bike and ped operations or
traffic engineer will cover that at the May meeting
Covered the item eight in terms of the funding 80/20 split
the Arlington Transit report
We've got some information on that we just weren't in
position to to present that
In a hole at this particular meeting and plus there's a
handful of items on this agenda
So we'll bring that forward and so maybe that's something
that councilmember Gregory can watch from home next time
Update on the downtown narrow streets item 10 that's been
assigned to traffic engineering
I don't quite have a date yet on that likewise with the
musical roadways, I think
City engineer was going to touch base with you on that
particular item
So with that I'll take any questions or on that particular
item if that takes any staff time or funding just drop it
If the committee would mind just for a few moments on item
number four on the Hickory Street improvements
We'd like to give you a quick update on where we are on
that won't take very long
Is that the are those the streetscape enhancements that
were paid for out of the TIF no
These are the the potential adding the sidewalks or moving
the sidewalks and the distresses the west side of Hickory
Moving the sidewalks along with the lighting to match West
Oak
So just to give you a broad overview of the project
This is the one where we have water wastewater and streets
crews working on Hickory from Bonnie Bray back over to
Carol
Currently you've got water and waste while water is
complete wastewater is nearly complete streets. If you look
at where it's kind of shaded green
That's about where we're wrapping up right now
Around North Texas Boulevard moving on to the next segment
that will take us Avenue C
following this
So part of the discussion for the lights is actually taking
Lights on the north side of Hickory they exist on the south
side today
pedestrian level lights not full street lights pedestrian
level lights
putting street light are putting special level lights on
the north side of Hickory from Welch all the way over to
Carol so that you get a similar look on both sides and just
you've seen this before oak
You've got the lights that look like this a pedestrian
level lights on both sides and Hickory
You only have it on one side
So part of what we've looked at here is what would the
overall project cost additions be?
potentially there is some
Marriage of the two projects because we would be narrowing
a little bit of the roadway
We'd still retain the bike lanes still retain parking still
have to travel lanes through there, but the road was a
little bit wider
So we would alleviate some of the cost that we put for
Asphalt and we would just offset it with cost for moving
the sidewalk some other issues
What we're looking for right now to really get any idea of
what we're dealing with long term as far as what what are
the details?
What are the impacts to individual property owners to
actually put this in the ground?
We really need to engage a consultant and we need to get
that person on board to really get into the fine details of
How much grading do we have to do? What are the ADA impacts
when we move this sidewalk?
Do we have retaining walls that need to be shifted or moved
or do they go away altogether?
All those things need to be looked at in greater detail
To the best of what we can figure at this point you can
anticipate about 75 to 80 thousand dollars going into
design fees
We do have some options to look at for where we could fund
that but that would be the first step if it's something you
Still want to go forward with looking at is putting those
pedestrian lights on the north side of Hickory
Well, we're gonna I mean you want direction now because it
's under new business, I'm not sure we're just trying to
give you some ideas to
Consider we do have a pathway forward. We have an active
Merchant's Association out there
That's continuing to push us for this direction
And we just need to get some idea of where you'd like us to
go
We could come back with an item that goes with the design
of it or we could go something a code different direction
If that's where you chose
Thank you. I would recommend that you
T this up for a work session to get direction from Council
As you do it you might also
If you if you have the possibility, I may not be able to do
it without design
Talk a little bit to them about
How wide the sidewalk would be and how close the sidewalk
would be to the curb?
Because I know that those are issues for pedestrians.
Absolutely. Okay, but I think I think move it on to
Work session so that we could move forward with that on
that that amount does not seem out of line. I
Agree with that. Thank you
That it
Okay, that takes us to number two concluding items any
concluding items
None for my me either. So with that we will adjourn