Feb 21, 2018 Mobility Committee on 2018-02-21 11:30 AM

going to be out her son is sick so first we'll take up item 1a consider approval of the mobility committee of denton city council meeting minutes january 17 2018 i move approval as presented in the back up since we don't have anybody else to second i will second and all in favor passes unanimously we're going to go a little bit out of order with item d consider the recommendation of a resolution of the city council of the city of denton texas appointing a member to the board of directors of the denton county transportation authority and providing an effective date are we going to get a presentation for that i can i can speak from here madam chair yeah absolutely mark so um wanted to let the committee know that uh moving forward with this uh proposed amendment this is a resolution that would formally appoint richard huckabee to or reappoint richard huckabee to the denton county transportation authority board of directors mr huckabee has served as the dent representative since late 2011 as stated in the backup the appointments are typically for a two-year time frame but they they do not necessarily require reappointment so we wanted to go ahead and move forward with um we had received a notice from dcta that his appointment had expired but he was still eligible to continue to serve until he was reappointed or another individual was reappointed richard has um been serving the city of denton on this board as i said since 2011 has served on a number of different committees and is currently serving as the chair of the finance committee and as the vice chair of the board so uh he's in a great position uh in terms of leadership with that board and to serve uh both you the council as well as the citizens of uh the city of denton so uh with that i would stand for any questions but the staff recommendation is to uh move forward with the reappointment of richard huckabee to the dcta board of directors i assume that uh you're recommending that because he's indicated a willingness to serve absolutely yes sir we as as indicated in the backup material staff did meet with um richard huckabee back in december and he he does have an interest to continue to serve the citizens of denton and if i may i also assume that this is an action that needs to be taken by the entire council correct with this um this action today is a recommendation for a formal resolution to go to council that would formally appoint mr huckabee okay i'm ready to make that unless you want to okay well i wanted to just carry keely uh councilman brig's uh discussion that i had with her about it and i think we were in agreement that we'd like to open up the nomination process again and see if we have interested people who are would like to join the dcta board um not to say that we won't be nominating mr huckabee in the future but i think um it's been six years since we opened it up to the public so if there are people that are interested we'd like to take a look at those applications you know and that's a great point and i failed to mention that there is an alter uh an alternate member um that uh we have not made contact with it's a former council member a gentleman by the name of guy mackleroy who's continuing to serve in that capacity and so that that certainly may be another opportunity uh if council wishes to to look into that as well as the actual board appointment well i think i have to speak for her since she's not here but we were both interested in opening it up to the whole council for discussion and maybe other people on council have suggestions okay and we do uh and i failed to introduce mr huckabee he is here with us and he's here every week so they are every month so i feel like we if uh if you wish i'm certain uh he'd be willing to answer any questions you may have if you've got any questions uh but he can certainly uh stand for question if you and mr huckabee if you feel like getting up and saying anything please feel free um you'll have to get up to the mic though for the meeting i just want to give you an opportunity into it okay thanks for asking now i'm pleased to serve my community i have an interest in it the uh i'm at the position where i 'm kind of in line to get to be the chairman of that board if charles emory ever decides to go elsewhere we're on the record by the way that's okay i said the same thing to charles emory actually dcta owes a lot to our chairman of that board uh he's been with it pretty much since the get-go and is very involved in everything that dcta does but i'm pleased to serve my city i've lived here in dentin no longer than any place i've lived in my lifetime because i was in a rink or so long they just sent me wherever they wanted and i always agreed but this uh i understand this situation and we're on a growth pattern so i'm pleased to continue if that be the will of the of the council well can i ask of course please feel free so reflect on where you think uh dcta has has uh grown and flourished and where there may be some work that needs to be done well i there's never no work to be done right now probably uh on the near horizon i don't know what near means in this case but the uh dcta seeks a a place where trains can switch double tracks in the vicinity of the corinth campus of nctc you know the background i was city manager in corinth on a previous watch and they've the leadership in corinth in those days uh was not interested at all in the train coming down the track now are stopping there i think you know you know all of that yes yeah i'm familiar with the history with it seems like like my memory is is that their hope was if they voted uh not to participate with sales tax that that might make it that the train did not happen and it wasn't going through making all of that terrible noise in their town so they so they voted uh against that uh which meant that they uh also were voting against having a a station or stop well the current uh there is a move amongst the new leadership in corinth and this would be of interest to the mobility committee and to the council there's only three member cities you know that that are member cities in the sense that a portion of your sales tax goes to dcta no other members contribute in that way actually no other participants on the on the board and the voting is set up in that in that way too it has to be two of the participating members plus the board how's that rule go when we come to climb we have to go to the microphone because we're being broadcast jim cline president of dcta the way the voting works is that actions by the board are taken by a majority of the board that's the the specific rules however when we have specifically and really important items the budget adding you know when we anytime we take a significant action there's a whole list in our bylaws that i believe mark i shared with you that it requires a actual majority of the board not just of those present so it requires eight votes eight of those votes must be two of the three financially participating member cities and the way it really works out is that the financially participating member cities have a veto this is basically how it works so two of the three member cities or financially participating cities don't buy the plan then the plan doesn't happen and so that's kind of how that works and i think it's a good check in the system and it seems to work pretty well so okay thank you that helps what i'm suggesting to you is that all the member cities have been paying their dues right since the get-go corinth has a desire or it seems to have a desire to open up another station i don't think my i have a region i'm trying to have a regional view that's my job but filtered through dentons requirements here's the deal corinth would persuade and i think it's a good idea to have another station and a little piece of property that's kind of close to pan el square if you know the area that would essentially make corinth a member city for corin th to be legitimately a member city they would have to pay back the sales taxes they would have paid from the very get-go that's the only way they could we could have another member city or they can pay the equivalent and do all the capital costs up to that same dollar amount if they had been participating from the get-go and then they could be on an equal standing with the member cities that have been there from the beginning that 's the dollar equivalent it would be in the in the dcta's best interest if that happened and it wouldn't violate the trust or the investment that the three current member cities have done if it doesn't come out that way then you can my vote as your representative would be no but if it does come out that way and i'll tell you this up front if it does come out that way my it it would be in the dcta's best interest regionally and it wouldn't be a detriment to the city i represent i vote yes does that make sense what i just said yeah okay well it would seem to me that if i may know yeah that if if if they pony up the money because they would have paid and which in a reasonable way that's satisfactory to all parties then then it's a win win for everyone because now rather than three cities contributing sales tax it's now four cities and Corinth since since dcta happened has grown and there is more retail in Corinth than there used to be so whereas at the beginning it was a sign wasn't a significant amount of money but now it 's become more significant and if they're going to get in they probably need to get in quickly before the bill gets any higher the entry fee so i'm sure that's exactly the way the Corinth representative on the dcta feels Tom Witter Winterborn and i know they're working diligently at it their the leadership in Corinth has matured from the old days and we'll see how it works out because they're going to they're going to put up them if for that for that to get approved by this board or to get Denton's vote your representative's vote no matter who it may ultimately turn out to be that's the informed vote are there any other pressing things that are that are looking at us in the short term i do want to just be sure that we kind of stay on our posting because it does say it's about the appointment so if it's related to the appointment then okay you know well then i guess we're we've stitched up our lips to a certain degree can i answer any questions for y'all i don't i don't have any i think that that was very helpful and it's helpful to know your background and to know that you're still interested in serving so okay then i'm done okay great thank you so i guess for next steps we would be having a full discussion with council i think i would take it to work at a work session yeah sure yes absolutely great free to go okay um so then we're going to move back up to item b receive a report hold a discussion and provide staff direction regarding an ordinance authorizing the city manager to execute a professional services agreement psa with innovative transportation solutions inc for transportation services as set forth in the contract and providing an effective date which is file 6610 professional services agreement for transportation consultant services to innovative transportation solutions inc for a total of 126 thousand dollars yes ma'am i'm going to actually turn this over to assistant city manager mario canas arras he's handling the contract from this point forward and taking it to to council thank you mar members of the committee before you is as mentioned in the work excuse me in the caption a professional services agreement for its innovation transportation solutions it has been a consultant for the city since 2002 since 2002 most recently the contract with it expired back in september of last year september seven of 2017 and so we've been working with the five five one month extensions to get us to this point we went through an rfq process request for qualifications process there was one submittal it's we've gone through the process of vetting that submittal fortunately the the terms of the contract that's that's before you today or the agreement today is the same as it was before ten thousand five hundred dollars it's sort of it's for a two-year contract with three one additional year contract extensions so the the funds are budgeted within the operating budget of the city so so we 're covered there from a financial perspective but the reason why we bring this for you today is ids has been instrumental with the city working on the city's behalf be able to leverage local dollars with state regional and and county dollars to be able to ascertain traffic two traffic signals at 2181 we've been able to get traffic signals at robinson in 2499 a traffic signal at 380 and cindy lane also the widening of 1515 most recently which was a very large project for us is the mayhill expansion is that connective piece between to be able to get to get the the the above grade crossing at the dcta line at mayhill so mr pollster and his firm has been very helpful in getting those those dollars through the council of governments tex dot the county and again as i said leveraging those local dollars with state local and federal and regional dollars so with that we recommend approval of of this contract and then if the committee recommends that we move forward then we bring that contract to the full council on the march 6 2018 council meeting mark do you want to add anything to that not unless there's any specific questions as it relates to project delivery or anything along those ones councilmember cragery do you have any questions councilmember riggs talked about it we didn't talk about it but i'm more than happy to continue with mr pollster's contract i think it was kind of a given you've become a fixture john so what he does for us and what that what that contract does for us is provides some continuity of representation at the regional transportation council because we have term limits we don't have that and that puts dentin at a very bad disadvantage in terms of of having a seat at the table that somebody who who's been around and has understood how to work the system to to get appropriate funds for for the city and so i think that uh it's money well spent well and i appreciate that you say that and and i know working with mr mr pollster the last number of months since i've been here and with our city engineer tides to see has a really good rapport with staff and so it's been a pleasure working with him so well i'd like to echo both of those sentiments and i think if i hear i thought i heard a motion to go ahead and recommend it to the full council that's what i'm move okay and i'll second and all in favor aye i have a unanimous recommendation to send it off to the full council for approval of the contract thank you very much thanks mr pollster okay item c is receive a report hold a discussion and provide direction regarding texas department of transportation on system projects in the dentin area to include the 35 express project so speaking of some of those services that ids provides we have john pollster with us this morning and have him walk through each of these projects i will let you know that we've added another project which is the 35w project which is essentially from fort worth just at the 820 location up to the 35 split here in denton and we'll walk through that we just this past week last week we actually hosted one of the planning meetings here with the city here at city hall so with without further ado i'll have john poll ster walk through this report great yes so you can just scroll can you do it full screen go to full screen the pages yeah if you could zoom in that would probably be helpful too just roll it down this way yes sir okay thank you uh the first project we'll go over is the 21 81 north south project we have a bi-weekly meeting with city staff tex dot and the county to go over several projects this is one of those projects the project was awarded to mcm they are still they 're saying a construction completion date of january 2020 we're still arguing over some of the number of days in that contract to make sure that they stay committed to the schedule they bid on because this is an a plus b contract and that means anytime they get past the scheduled contract those days are worth a dollar amount that have to be paid and they have to pay it back if they don't make the schedule so we're currently in the process of beginning the most of the drainage improvements along the northern part of the project we've got a couple of areas where we've got some minor utility impacts related to a couple of signal poles and then we're working through a change order a potential for the city of dentons improvements to their line and we've met with staff and with tech stock to resolve that issue and we feel confident we'll get that resolved in a timely manner to everybody's liking so 2181 still kind of in its early phases of construction it's doing a lot of clearing and drainage and utility work right now four-wheel drive i've got good news we had a come to jesus meeting with union pacific a couple of weeks ago they had made the mistake of saying they weren't going to meet our schedule so we sicked a lot of people on them and now they have said they'll meet it and not only that but they're we submitted their final submission for their exhibit a on february 16th and they indicated during that conference call that their comments were minor and that when they submitted it back shortly that they would submit it back as a final approval even if there are still some comments left outstanding they will give us final approval with comments which is all tech stock needs to be able to go ahead and make that certification in may for it to be ready to let for july let in 2018 so we have gotten over the last hurdle on this project to get it to let in july so because of that we know it's it 's a this is basically a railroad job a driveway job and a little bit of a road job so the city spent a lot of time prior to this point to coordinate with a lot of the businesses along that corridor because a lot of their driveways are going to be narrowed or or moved the city staff thinks it's important that we go out prior to contractor mobilizing but after they're awarded sometime after july when we know how many days they're going to be out there within the barricading is and all that and go back out and have a joint text dot city of uh denton kind of a public open house on the project just to inform the residents in those areas of what's coming and why just so that they're not caught flat-footed on that project and this is you'll see where we 've got most of the utilities clear on this project and the ones that aren't are either in the plans as in the city of denton or they are not impacting the construction of the project so four-wheel drive should let in july and that's a big project for the city john yes ma'am when do you think the public meeting might be sometime after july probably before september i'll just ask that somebody reach out to john ryan since he's the rep for that area absolutely thank you and then you've got 2499 section 5 which is essentially open except with that little jog at robinson the the materials have been received and the contractor has been scheduled to go install that uh signal in mid-march and there's just a kind of a lot of signals that that contractor is working on and this was as soon as they could get out there to get it done but the road essentially is open north of there and south of there and everybody that's getting to use it as best they can love it so by march we should have that signal installed and operational any questions on that okay that's basically what in the rest of the project we're doing the sod a lot of the punch list items so there are still continuing work by weber on the corridor but it's mostly just punch list items and what bazilson refers to is farming the landscaping so your i-35 e mayhill improvements uh we have met with the district we are starting to uh populate the the schedule on this project we are anticipating right now we have asterisks there for uh no ride away no utilities because we feel like we know what's in the corridor and so we are just simply putting in a date for construction ready to let because of the design and we have we met in january to talk about the project we determined in may 2021 uh is a contingent on if there is right away if we find out there isn't any right away since this project has funding on it already we can move that date closer to the actual time for the design so what tech stock does for whatever reason now is they will give you even though we're showing asterisks for right away in utility they're plugging in time for that because they have they have to commit to a let date and they can move it up easier than they can move it out so even though we're showing asterisks they instead they wanted to include some time in the schedule for those so if we get to that phase of the project and they're the right away is not needing the utilities are minimal we can move the date up on the project that's essentially what that wording says there and this is the ultimate improvements for mayhill under 35 so we'll have the the total number of lanes in the texas u-turns the bridge itself for 35 ultimately will be widened but the underpass will be the proper width for the ultimate configuration of mayhill now and in the future so now we're on the loop 20 brinker mayhill project you saw that on february 9th i'll just roll to the text art report on february 9th the traffic was switched over to the new southbound frontage road they are currently in the process of redoing the old frontage road and making some drainage improvements so that they can put the southbound main lanes over on those old southbound frontage roads then they'll a month that'll happen sometime in march and then after that a couple months later they'll move the northbound main lanes to the old southbound main lanes at that point they 'll come in and pull out all of the pavement for the northbound main lanes because that's the part where they're going to start building the bridge structure up and then they'll eventually put the the northbound main lanes back up on the new bridge and then pull out the southbound main lanes build that structure move them up on the bridge structure so this will start in march you'll see it and it'll go all the way through the end of this year to december good times and this one is 35 north it's a pretty old place holder we have our ve done well it's got two out of three signatures we've got our 90 schematics were submitted and on the second and once we get to this point we will start to work with text dot on finding a funding source from the category 12 of funding just commission discretionary funding for this project because they are interested in getting again 35 throughout the state of texas to six lanes so this is basically a faith-based engineering we're doing all the design work without knowing exactly where the money's coming from so this is 35 w we also have an item on rtc that affects just south of here in tarrant county that we'll go over as well but we added this project because obviously it impacts city of denton on its western side we had a a on on february 15th city staff met with text dot and dcta to go over the items associated with 35 w and we have a white paper that we can hand out if you don't have it i think mark has it that goes over what's going on so essentially in the last mobility plan there was a pushback on managed lanes as you all seen which we'll get into a little bit further on our last agenda item and so at the time the county submitted 35 w as a non-managed lane cross-section but it's a rural we're proposing a rural cross-section in this corridor because it allows us in the future if we so choose to add managed lanes we'll have the right of way to do it so uh it's uh what is it a goose and a gander i mean it's so we're going to be building three six lanes in some portion of it and four in the other but it'll be a rural section so you'll have a lot of open space in the medians and on the parkways so that in the future once managed lanes come back into vogue we'll have the ability to include them into the project this is a little over it's it's right now it's about 500 million but i'm betting by the time we get to it it'll be closer to a billion dollars which we're working on getting parts of this project built if you've been south lately just as you come into the city of fort worth part of that in denton county you'll see the southbound and the northbound frontage roads being constructed we are working with texas right now to build the next phase of of uh front age roads from about 1171 north to 2449 or the future loop 288 uh as well so what we're trying to do is just build frontage roads wherever there's development occurring in their permanent location and then at some point in the future we'll come back and add in main lanes okay good news here too um we're calling this the keely bricks project she brought this to our attention uh for concerns on making that right turn movement from 288 to 380 uh tina massey let us know the other day that they have a concrete contract that they uh have approved for their uh for dent county and that this segment of roadway has been included in that contract and they anticipate the improvements to begin sometime in may of this year and so essentially as you're exiting off of 288 to come to 380 from that you'll see where the concrete stops and it kind of has a cut point from that cut point all the way into the intersection of 38 and 288 is the scope of that project to add additional lane and to restripe it to provide additional right turn um capacity for those folks going east on 380 you know you were mentioning a while back that we had to have a lane to go straight through even though nobody would and i was on um interstate or highway 75 at the intersection of 75 and eldorado in mck inney and if you get off of 75 to turn on eldorado you have to turn right or you have to turn left you can't even go straight through even though there is a road on the other side and now it was when i got out there i said wait a minute holsters told me they can't do this you're saying that you found out the consultant was wrong but it was it was it was confusing a little bit because it was like oh wow there's a lot of lanes going this direction there were a lot of lanes going that direction so they had all those dots out in the road and i was trying to figure which dots were mine right to follow a lane through there so we'll take a look at that because we're always looking for precedents on issues um and get back with texthot on that and see what their thoughts are i don't know if that would really help here or not yeah i don't know i mean uh i would say we 'll consider everything you know just see what happens i don't see a negative to looking at it you better so that's 75 at eldorado in mckinney yes sir all right so your 380e's project this project is being done by texthot it's fully funded to the tune of a little over 130 million bucks the segment in green is being uh designed in-house by texthot and the section in blue is being done by two firms and those projects have your estimated completion of the 30 percent sometime in the summer time frame and this also in the green segment is the segment where the city has that uh 10 foot path or trail that uh your bikes are got funded as part of this project and so it'll be included in this project and cog was his pain the majority of it so this project's got a ready all that date of may of 2021 it has a 89 parcels to acquire 50 something of them are in the blue segment so they are putting a pretty long time frame on on that if it ends up being less then we can always move the project up because it is fully funded at this time a question on that is there any uh is there going to be any widening of the road or of that causeway or whatever they call it where there's dirt uh going across part of that lake bottom there's a couple of bridges to let water flow through uh but is there going to be any more dirt work that they have to do to make that wider in that section over the lake bottom so i do know that the intent on this project is to stay with an existing right away so i'm not sure what the drainage impacts will be but if i can get a better idea exactly what you're talking about we can get that we can look at the schematic and see what it calls for it's between rock hill road and uh i think old trinity road is that back to the towards denton rock hill back towards dent alright i kind of know where that is this is right before 377 north there's a turn off to the greenbelt parking lot yes sir down there and what they did when they when they widened that out they went up into the floodplain and got permission from the corps of engineers and they took a bunch of dirt from up in there what they did was they created a bunch of pods so i think what that ends up being is they have to mitigate for the loss of storage by going in and creating storage elsewhere right and and it worked well in terms of a wildlife habitat and a refuge when when the lake goes down there's there's places for for wildlife to serve yeah that's part of the deal i mean uh i remember back in my other life getting a call from buzz elson telling me that he needed me to get congressman arnie 's help because the u.s army corps of engineers were bringing out the u.s marshals to stop his contractor on this part of the project because they were violating their uh mitigation plan he was afraid he was going to get arrested so i think our relationships have gotten better with the corps but yeah that's the intent is as we come through a sensitive area in the green area that there is mitigation issues that are associated with it and it's usually like seven to one so if you impact anything you have to mitigate seven to one somewhere else so yes sir i'm confident that will be part of the process okay loop 288 west we have uh chang patel on contract doing the ea and schematic at the bottom of the report you'll see that um textod has agreed to pick up chain patel to do the actual design of the project and our first phase is a one of the two frontage roads this is a remember it's a controlled access facility with main lanes and frontage roads the first phase is going to be one of the frontage roads and so once the mobility 2045 plan is adopted i think in june mayor june chain patel will be turned loose at that point i want to come back in here to sit with you guys because it's most of this impacts y'all and so we need to know which frontage road you want us to start with because it absolutely doesn't matter which frontage road we use i would think it'd be the northbound since all your development is is inside of the loop but i'm not an engineer so don't listen when i say councilman i would envision bringing you know with with your direction of course bringing that back to the mobility committee to workshop and then bringing it forward to council um you know after that i think i think council needs to be more aware of this and the alignment here than than most of the council members are i think it's a little fuzzy for them and again with the expert of the mobility committee i haven't understand a lot of the stuff you help us uh create um better better optics as we move it forward with with council in terms of what you would like to see and how'd you like to see that information presented because we have a pdf of the schematics i mean we can we've uh we've kept the picture uh purposefully vague because we didn't have the the traffic from cog till just recently and so we couldn't justify any of our ramp locations from a traffic standpoint and so we didn't want to get those out into the public and then somebody say hey i lost my access point when right we had to change it so we've kept it purposely vague to this point i think todd had something so one of the things that we are working on this year is we are going through a master thoroughfare planning process and this is a key area for us as development continues out there knowing that the loop is coming along the west side where those ramp locations will be ties into the uh for the actual frontage roads as well so we are engaged in looking at this area this year and then come back with where we see future expansion of the roadways and the mesh thoroughfare network so you'll see in the schedule there that they're improving the schematic they're anticipating having this schematic approved by december of this year which is the schematic is for both the frontage roads and the main lanes great separ ations over the railroad and 380 so and in other locations but you'll see that there's a two-year jump between 18 and 20 on the environmental approval that's because the 2045 mobility plan hasn't been adopted yet and once it's adopted loop 288 is in and we can move that because it's not going to take you two years to clear a project that's been on the books for 20 plus years we just already know the uh the environmental critical path items on this project so i'm betting that within a year after the schematic is approved we can have an environmental clear so by 2019 which means that everything else can start sooner so this schedule is based on the fact that it's not in the mobility plan it will be by the end of this summer okay FM 1515 we got the LTRN contract right at the beginning of 2018 they are pulling together their subs we had some conversation because tex dot is uh keeping some aspects of the project in house most notably the right-of-way mapping and so we had to do some negotiations on that and we are starting the survey and the sue work and and LTRA has been informed that their main stakeholder is the city and we're working with the city they're working with the city to make sure that through the city we get input from all of the development all on that corridor to make sure that we're doing the project consistent with what everybody wants and including the tie-in at body braid we haven't given them notice to proceed yet there are some scope issues we have to clarify on the cost but once we get that we'll turn them loose and the first door they should be knocking on is the cities to come in and talk about all your critical hot points on this project will there be any as they do that there are a couple of pretty severe curves in that road are those going to be made less severe or are we pretty limited by the right i think that they are going to be improved we haven't necessarily established the design speed criteria on it which dictates what you can and can't do i would assume it'd be somewhere between 40 and 45 miles design speed although i'm not an engineer todd may have a have a better opinion well this roadway also ties into that master thoroughfare plan that we're looking at is there's a need to tie this into the south so we take 1515 ultimately we would want to take an arter ial south all the way down to 2449 and vintage which would relieve some of that truck traffic and get it out to 35w faster or they could go north gives multiple options so the necessity to really put a high speed connection in 1515 which would be a we would really shallow those curves up a little bit is less and there's some significant right away constraints plus you've got some floodplain and jurisdictional issues in that area so knowing all those things are coming online it's probably not going to straighten out too much okay i'm going to be pretty limited but there are some alternatives to relieve that issue and so what the dance will be is the text that has certain design criteria they're going to want to meet if it stays on system if the city decides once it's constructed as a six lane divided urban arterial they want to take it off system then they can have some design waivers through the process that the state's more amenable to knowing that ultimately it'll come off system but that's a conversation for a later date and we're in this process do we talk with i mean there are a bunch of distribution centers out there absolutely and that's and that's just crucial for them when do we talk with the all of those stakeholders in that in that area that that depend on 1515 so typically as we go through this design process we would go to them at multiple points i would foresee as we go through this project it'd be a collaborative effort between tax dot and the city and since it's not that i-35 billion dollar kind of expansion i would anticipate the communication aspect to be more on the city than it really will be the state with that being the case we would go early in the process once we kind of know what that schematic looks like for the area we've hammered out some of the details we can at least talk to the businesses conceptually get an idea of what that looks like to them the concerns they might have and the way their operations might be impacted both after the project and during construction which would then give the design consultant better information to complete the design it'd be an ongoing process early and often i think is the right words right and then this is a reconstruction job that we that we've got on it's going to be closing out sometime in august of this year this is basically just a a resurfacing of 1830 but this you know during the at the southern part of the city in this area and it's mostly just a bridge replacement project with some overlay work throughout this corridor now we'll probably replace this one with tex dot coming in and they are already doing uh i would kind of feasibility or conceptual planning on widening 1830 to four lanes there 's some discussion as to four lane divided four lane undivided if it's divided is it going to be a flush median is it going to be a mountable median is there going to be a raised median because a lot of part of 1830 operates in a very rural manner and what tex dot is coming to the realization or conclusion on is that when you have a four lane divided facility in most areas what benefits you get from a safety standpoint of a raised median it gets offset by the fact that you have large vehicles with trailers that can't make turns and so they have to make u-turns and they can't make the u-turn and so there's some conversation that they're having internally but once that project comes fully online because the state's doing the project then we'll bring the reports back and then we'll work with the city because obviously y'all have a say in what y'all think 1830 needs to look like i would say closer you get to to the northern part of that project the more raised and limited those turn lanes are going to be for the south to get the less limited but that's just a guess on my part and i believe for this item that is it unless you have any questions a couple of things you said at the end we were going to talk about managed lanes a little bit more it's the last item on your agenda for rtc okay all right nothing okay then so do i sit down are you doing the rtc presentation i can do that from over there right there's no handout yes you can thanks for understanding i don't like doing this uh thanks for the presentation and then we'll move to item e which is receive a report hold a discussion and provide direction regarding regional transportation council monthly reports and actions and that's going to be mr polster again accept seated this time okay so you should have in your packet the basically the agenda from the regional transportation council meeting on february or january 11th the i mean uh that was february 8th so on item five it's the uh says follow up on texas transportation commission meeting the commission in january 24th the highway commission communicated to uh regional transportation council that they did not want to move forward on 635 east because there was a billion dollar shortfall and the rtc members and mr morris's staff tried to allay that concern but you know i guess if you're a billion dollars short it's kind of hard to get past the math on that the reason we were even there in jan uary is because in december of 2017 the commission pulled uh 635 35 w project in houston in a project in austin completely out of the plan uh the 10-year unified transportation plan which means you can't spend any money on it because it's not in the plan uh which set a lot of people off and the reason they did that was because all those projects had a told component uh referenced as a told managed lane and the governor and the lieutenant governor communicated to the highway commission in in december november december of last year that they did not want any projects moving forward that had a toll component or as a toll road and so they were conflagrating the conflagrating toll roads and toll managed lanes is the same item and they are completely different and so it put hold a hold on 35 w coming out of tarrant county and it put a hold on 635 why why are those two projects important to denton county in general and didn't first of all 35 w ties into the project that we were talking about a moment ago where we're it's bringing uh 35 w into denton county proper at its southwest quadrant so anything that impacts that impacts that development as it continues north 635 east is more important to denton county and the residents of denton county and cities is because denton is in the eastern sub region of the of texas and we're in the dallas district and that's where 635 east is and until 635 east is resolved from a financial standpoint they're not moving forward on anything in the region right now and if you short on projects like at some point we're going to need money for 288 etc they're not even going to consider assisting you on that until they come up with this short fall funding so at the january i mean the february 8th rtc meeting they passed out a draft proposal to cover this shortfall and it required the region they used the word uh collateral they were going to use three projects as collateral for the uh 653 million dollars or short on this project one of those projects is i 35e from 635 to the dallas denton collin county line excuse me collateral does that mean we're putting it up as a first lien to a bank or something essentially okay so we're putting up no no i wasn't there i was at the municipal law conference okay first the project's short including the toll component excellent question so the reason the project is short is because the commission said we'll let you move forward on 635 but you have to pull the told component the toll component shot a hole about 770 million dollars in a financing mechanism so that puts us 770 something million dollars in the hole if we want to move forward on all of of 635 from 75 all the way around to 30 which is the next segment that needs to be constructed so when they pulled out the toll manage lanes it put a hole in the funding and so the certain senators around here that are adamant about no tolls say well you just got the wrong projects you're you're building lesser important projects and and you need to just move those monies to to 635 east so the three projects so what the rtc proposed which they didn't pass was to basically do a reverse near neighbor near time frame right so if 635 east needs money it needs to come from projects that are in and around that project or that are beat or in certain senatorial districts that are pushing for it okay so two of the projects are in center hall's district in their near near neighbor 80 and i-30 they're in diracqua county the 630 i mean i-35e project is in another senator's district that's pushing those issues and so that totals 653 million dollars and yes when that says collateral they're saying that if they can't find a way to make up additional funds on this project through either savings on the project of being allowed to procure it as a as a some type of design bill where the developer can come in and propose certain alternatives or they get additional money from the commission then those three projects their money that's in the 10-year plan would be moved to 635 which means that in the 10 years from 2016 to 2025 or whatever that 10-year period is there's no money for those projects in the in the 10-year plan so collateral means that yeah if we need it we're taking it if we take it it's out of the 10-year plan it's not funded anymore i have a question 635 so the i-35 east portion of it isn't that toll managed as well the the segment that all 35e is told from has a toll managed lane from basically the lake to 635 right so when you're talking about leverage you're not talking about the toll revenues you're talking about project improvement funds capital funds i'm not sure i understand the questions that the money that was on 635 the 770 million dollars that came out of the program because you pulled the toll man's lanes what they do is they take that revenue stream similar what we did on 35e and remember we only have two reversibles this will have four two concurrence in each direction we were able to take that revenue stream and leverage it for a 385 million dollar civil i mean tiffy alone which allowed us to add some of the components so that's similar to what they were going to do here is take that revenue stream and use it for federal it's called uh infra at this point well i guess i'm confused because if the highway commission canceled the 635 project because of the toll component but we're using tolls to leverage the 635 project we're not using tolls the we the proposal that rtc passed and that all the communities dallas county dallas carlin and mesquite approved was widening 635 going to 10 general purpose lanes and continuous frontage roads because they don't have it there for a total of 14 free lanes and then adding four toll lanes in the middle that was what was on the table that's a 1.8 billion dollar job the reason they were able to build the managed lanes is because the managed lanes essentially paid for themselves with the total revenue what the commission said was is you can't toll those lanes those managed lanes so you still have them in the plan but you don't have the revenue so in order to build the project as proposed which is frontage additional general purpose and managed lanes which are not told which are called express lanes and if you want to know what an express lane is every time you go to austin and you decide to take the upper deck instead of the lower deck those are supposed to be express lanes everybody knows that they aren't but that's what they call an express lane there's no toll so the commission said you can do it but you can't do it as a as a toll managed lane which means that if you're going to build the managed lanes now you have to backfill those dollars with tax dollars the projects they've selected to collateralize that 653 million dollars is again i-30 out to bass pro towards dow rock in the dallas county area us 80 east into kaufman county and in 635 i mean 35a from 6 35 north to the denton dallas county line the reason that's important is because if you've driven south lately you've found that when you get to the 121 george bush area the collector distributor is not working we were going to use part of the money that we have in denton county portion because a third of it's in denton county and that 264 to fix that collector distributor now that we know what the problem is that's put on hold now because those dollars are put up as collateral for 635 so as goes 635 so goes 35a north of 635 in the dallas county area which impacts didn't count so the commission the rtc basically said we're not going to actually approve this we 're going to send a letter saying we stand ready to partner with the commission to figure out how to get 635 moving forward everybody i think is just waiting till the primary is over because there's a lot of political chicanery going on and then they'll come back to it and since then you've had letters being written by lots of county judges lots of elected officials saying and my point is this is that even if you don't care about toll managed lanes you should care about local control because what you have is a county a large city three large cities being involved in the process saying here's what we want the state to build in our community and you have a state elected official who's once removed from the locals saying i don't agree with that we need to do it my way and so that mentality is going to be showing up in the next legislative cycle related to property tax sales tax debt service bonding and they're basically deciding that local governments can't be trusted and they all need to be wards of the state because that's essentially what they're doing on 635 right now is they're not allowing the local governments which the federal government requires them to include the local governments they're not let the local governments make a determination on what's best for their communities question on the the managed toll lanes i mean my understanding and it's a pretty simplified version is we contracted out with a private company that that manages those they collect the money off of them and because of that they actually helped fund the reconstruction of 35e right no sir i apologize you're you are a lot of people think that what happened on lbj which is lbj express and north tern express which reconstructed a corridor that added managed lanes to it was the same as what we did on 35e lbj and north tern express were what's called a comprehensive development agreement or cda where the developer came in and it was lbj was like 2.6 billion dollars uh tech start ended up having about 250 million dollars in it and cintra the one that won the contract put all the rest of the money in so they got the revenue off of that they get the revenue off that project for the next 52 years 52 years okay that's where i was same thing as north tern express but on 35e the 1420 committee which the state required at the time which included the city of denton denton county le wisfield dcta i think was there ntta voted not to use a comprehensive development agreement process but only to use a design build and we were only going to build as much as we could have paid at the time because we didn't want to give away our revenue stream the reason we didn't want to give away our revenue stream is we saw the haircut the revenue stream took on lbj and the revenue stream that was taken on north tern express and we didn't want to discount the revenue because we know that lbj north tern express would come online before our project did and we would have a true understanding of the revenue ourselves well i think i think we're going to continue to see the state level folks going through all kinds of contortions and trying to take money from other projects for their projects all considered core governmental services and all because none of them have the the courage to to stand up to these ultra conservative groups that are saying no taxes no new taxes we've got to cut taxes as if somehow you can build roads without paying money for them great or or and so so this region found another way to do it by by the toll arrangements and in surprise surprise when you live in a community like like mckinney or alan or some of those places where you can 't go anywhere on a highway without paying a toll they start getting a little upset about that i mean who would have guessed so so as long as they continue to say well we're going to keep our our fuel tax at a 1992 1993 rate even though we have more fuel efficient vehicles and cost of construction keeps going up we're not going to raise taxes to do any of this then we're going to continue they're going to continue to to to we're going to continue to see these kinds of shenanigans going on because they're not facing reality and they don't have the courage to do so so a good way to put that in perspective is the last 10 years we the the state of texas gave north central texas area about seven billion dollars in revenue we took that seven billion dollars in revenue used the tools that they gave us and we put 21 billion dollars worth of roadways on the ground this new 10 year cycle that we're talking about they gave us 6.9 7.2 depending on how you look at so they give us another 10 seven billion dollars over the next 10 years but they've removed the tools so we're going to be able to build seven billion dollars worth of projects for seven billion dollars so they gave us a 66 percent reduction in our ability to put projects on the ground for the next 10 years simply by removing the tools and our argument is we aren't asking to build more toll lanes we're asking to add tolled managed lanes to our system within a defined corridor that's only 30 percent of the region but has 70 percent of the population so there's a limited areas that we want to use toll managed lanes and the locals have said that's what we want the federal government says texas you got to listen to the locals that's why we created the metropolitan planning organization and so what they're doing is if if you try to move in with toll managed lanes because michael and the rtc could just fund them with category two category five and category seven because those are all federal dollars and the state can't control those so what they did was they simply took the projects out of the plan and you can't put your money on a project that's not in the plan and so there's this fight that's going on and who knows where it's going to end but right now everybody's got this collective holding their breath wait until after march 6 to see what life has in store for us i think what's more importantly potentially devastating to us is who becomes the speaker of the house because the last couple of times this chicanery was tried speaker strouse was able to kill it if you get somebody a little bit more hardline in there that are more like the patricks of the world and uh and mostly patrick then i would say if you got a bond program you want to pass pass it between now and signing die next year because the laws are going to change right well that was depressing anything else to add to the rtc update it was a sunny day no ma'am okay do you have any other questions no ma'am all right so no more toll lanes for us item f dcta upcoming strategic plan planning session on the matrix say good this is staff reports i wasn't sure if the dcta upcoming are you going to be doing that or okay is yeah if you could send in the informal staff report or a fr iday report that would be good all right in terms of the uh matrix we've got a couple of updates i think uh pre-ten was not here to handle those two items if i'm not certain that would be items seven and eight i do want to make a statement that uh pre-ten indicated you have an update for the traffic condo for the march six so with that so as far as both of those items go and a pre-ten was prepared to give comments and remarks on both of them uh he had asked that we push those comments to the next time this body meets just so that he can give that and he's got a better understanding especially of the the school zone item uh number eight number seven it really all refers back to the speed study that has been done by text dot but pre-tem has a much better idea of where we're going with that one he could respond to it better than i could and so the traffic calming art is going to be at our next mobility meeting yes all right any questions about matrix and on the on the this school zone on 380 i don't know that those folks want it or need it they have noddingham yes and nobody i don't think there are any kids that walk around bikes to that school but i'm i'm just curious is with the school sitting right there and with driveways right there on 380 we we probably need to be aware and and not caught with somebody getting hurt and what everybody wondering why why was there no discussion ever about that absolutely and when it comes to more private schools or private schools that exist in the community one of the issues that we're always trying to balance with those is that they're not like our public schools where they have a significant portion of pedestrian traffic there's some but there's not near the commitment to that so we'll i know pre-dem has been looking into that and i'll make sure that we come back to you with something more in depth on that one okay okay um if there's anything else on item f then we'll go to concluding items anything yeah i have a couple if you don't mind um i am i'm curious um if you know there was a time when we were having some problems with gravel trucks driving uh from decatur to the east and using a university driver highway 380 and uh we had uh put up signs saying truck route so that they would use um loop 28 i heard that that um don't know this to be a fact but i had heard that the police department was uncomfortable with um giving tickets because apparently a city can't pass an ordinance that there's a truck route to take trucks off of a state highway but then i've also heard that when uh mary denny was our state representative down in austin that she got state legislation passed designating uh loop 28 as a truck route um i don't know if that's true or not but i would appreciate staff doing some research on that i say that because i've been concerned since 380 got widen ed um that's that would be a pretty pretty big invitation for for um for delivery trucks and continuing gravel trucks because there's an awful lot of construction east of denton in the 380 corridor um that we look at that and see what's going on and and i don't know if we have any traffic studies coming up of what kind of truck traffic through truck traffic is happening i don't even know how you do a study like that but i bet you guys know how to do that so i'd like a little more information on that another thing is um i don't know if it's just coincidence or what but i was driving around town a little bit this morning and i only saw eight v bikes dockless sheer bikes only eight of them so my question is have they already moved out have we already uh uh have our rules already been such and they looked at them and they said we're we're we can't we can't make a business here so so what i'd like at the next meeting is is for somebody on staff to reach out to the various dock less bike share programs uh to see well are you gonna are you gonna do business here or not and and and based on what you hear we we might want to have a a chance for those folks each of those companies to come and make a short presentation to the mobility committee because if if we've already managed to uh have an unintended consequence of making them all go maybe that was the intended consequence i didn't gather that from our council that that we had that is there but but i'd like to know that sure we can we can make that happen and one of the reasons why pre-tem is not here is he's going down to um cog for this afternoon's bpac bike and pedestrian advisory committee and they actually have a panel this this afternoon related to various regulations associated with bike share so there's going to be some industry representatives there but we can certainly follow up a with that report and then individual contacts to each of the four minimum four bike share operators we've been in touch with and it and it could be that that it's just they pulled off those bikes to put new stickers on them or something but there's no bikes around the square and that may be because of the construction that's going on but i drove down to the transit center and i counted uh six five i counted one that's been parked over next to scrap uh uh lean up against a wallet scrap and i don't they don't seem to mind the management there doesn't seem to mind but and my family is not in any management at scrap and uh and we never we only lost money uh by by volunteer time at scrap it's not a business for us but but i but i got thinking oh my gosh did we run them off that quick that's it so on the first item i the been around a little while and part of the model reason for doing 288 the way we were doing on the west we were looking at the northwest quadrant as our initial phase and that was back before buzz left tex dot and that was so that because right now i do believe you have a truck route that establishes the trucks to come 380 to 288 go up 288 hit 35 come south to 380 and move through uh we just have to provide a madam chair i'm thinking i'm getting a head nod from our attorney we may be a little off the agenda no more on the response you know we it's for a future meeting okay so i guess we can't discuss that i have one item the dcca upcoming strategic call plan session planning session is actually tomorrow so you don't need to put it in the friday report point of clarification i mean maybe if there's like a summary or something afterwards but i don't think it needs to be in this friday's report so if there's no other concluding items then meeting will stand adjourned at 12 48