of the council mobility committee meeting to order. It is
11 37. A quorum is present and so the
mobility committee of the city of Denton will convene in
regular meeting today Tuesday October
the 10th 11 35 and our council work session. One of our
members is not here but should be coming
later. The first item on the agenda is receive a nomination
and elect a chair and I would like to
just hold off on that item until we have our full committee
here. So let's go to item B.
Consider approval of the mobility committee meeting minutes
of September the 19th.
I move approval. Okay no corrections or suggestions. Okay I
will second. All those in favor say aye.
Aye. Okay the the meetings minutes are approved. Item C is
well let's go back to item A
which is receive nominations and elect a chair for the Dent
on city council mobility committee
meeting. Are there any nominations? I'll nominate Sarah. I
'll nominate Dalton. Are you not do you
not want to be chair? I can if you want. Well I mean if you
don't want to be chair then we
shouldn't nominate you but but since you represent us on
the regional mobility committee it's probably
more appropriate for you. I'll second myself. I can't that
's a point of order. Huh? Yeah I'll do it. Okay
so there's a nomination. Are there any other nominations?
You withdrew your nomination to me
right? Yeah. Okay there are no other nominations. All those
in favor of electing council member
Garry as chair raise your right hand. It's unanimous. There
you go. Oh we have to elect the vice chair.
Okay is that what a chair does? Well she's the chair so I
can't. No I'll recognize councilwoman Briggs.
I would like to nominate council member Gregory for that
since he has already served in that position.
Okay I'll second. All in favor raise your right hand. Pass
es unanimously. What agenda item were
you on? We're now on C. Okay agenda item C. Receive a
report and hold discussion regarding
the implementation plan for sidewalks. Madam chair I'd like
to have our bike pedestrian coordinator
Julie Anderson present this item. Thank you.
Okay good afternoon council members staff. Today we're
going to talk about our sidewalk
plan for implementing the 2014 bond election. So just as a
brief update or brief history.
In 2014 Denton voters had approved two million dollars in
bond funds for miscellaneous sidewalks.
So that was in November 2014. Money came available spring
of that next year. And it was phased in
the amounts that money would be available through different
fiscal years. You can see first it was
250,000 two subsequent years of 700,000 and then just this
fiscal year is the remaining 350,000
dollars. So there was an initial list presented from the
engineering group last year in about
February. There's a list about 27 projects and it was
estimated about three million dollars for those
projects. At that time they added down we added some
downtown specific projects that I had asked
to be looked into. Those projects do not actually have cost
estimates only the top five did and those
got funded through some other means. And then as the list
has gone on it's been added to maybe there
were public requests or staff recognized some other needs
that got added to the list. And most of those
that were added did not have cost estimates because we were
already working with the original list.
That was 27 and now it's expanded to about 50. So let's
give a quick overview of some of the
ones that have been completed in that time. So the first
one was we call the exposition sidewalk.
It's actually on Hickory. It's right by Exposition Street.
This was completed in March of this year.
It came in under budget so that's nice. Some savings there.
This was originally our first
top priority because at one point the Denton community
market was going to move down to this
location and that ended up not happening. But the sidewalk
has been built as well as a really great
connection for DCTA and the rail yard and the municipal
core area down there. So that project's
been completed. Next is the Belle Avenue sidewalk. This was
completed in May of 2017. There's actually
a slight mistake on if you look at the listing I gave you.
It originally said this was 43,000.
I believe I was looking at a different Belle Avenue project
. So this actually came in at $136,000.
So the original estimate was supposed to be 50,000. That
original estimate did not include
various things that the final project engineer actually
included in it. So there was a bridge
railing to cross the bridge right there right by the Civic
Center. There was those parking lot bumpers
at the Civic Center parking for the back end parking. Not
back end parking but they put those
bumpers in and striping and then also a retaining wall
needed to be built right there because there
was an elevation change and those were not included in the
original cost estimate because a different
engineer ended up designing that project at the end. So
that was a really great connection to this
senior center. There was a very distinct trail path foot
path right there. Can I add? Yes pre-TAM.
The main reason for the redesign and adding a bunch of
elements was to save a bunch of trees
right by the Civic Center parking lot. So that was a major
reason. Correct. Councilmember Gregory.
Thank you. How did we cover the difference in cost? It came
out of the sidewalk fund. So $120,000
came from the bond election that $2 million and the
remaining $20 I just believe came from an
engineering somewhere. Actually there was $20,000 from
facilities. We had included $20,000
because of the connection between the senior center and the
Civic Center. Great. Thank you.
A next one is the Paisley Street over here by Lee
Elementary School. You can see there's a gap
where there had been some new construction sidewalks all
around it just missing this one
little gap right here. This was just completed last month.
That budget was estimated to be $28,000.
It came in at $26,000. Sorry the photo was maybe washed out
. Oh mine it is but it looks better up
there. There's that connection there. Right here in the
same area across the street just on Mac.
So if I go back. So this is this one but the one I'm
talking about next is now this section
that's right here. If you can see where the pointer is. So
this was completed last year as well. This
had a little bit higher budget. There was some work that
needed to be done with the elevation and
people's driveways plus all four of the intersection ramps
were brought up to current ADA standards.
So if you go out there right now you'll see all the
upgraded ramps. Crosswalks were recently
striped as well. So that one was a little bit higher cost
but this was a great connection to
Lee Elementary School to build up those sidewalks there. We
've completed some other projects in that
area as well as you go more east down Paisley connecting to
Mockingbird. Oh I'm sorry Councilman
McGrary. Having been principal at Lee for 15 years this is
just great because for the first time now
kids that live in the Singleton Oaks addition were the
biggest number of kids to that school.
Live were able to walk to school or ride a bike to school
on sidewalks and avoid East McKinney Street
and for years kids used to use East McKinney Street because
Paisley didn't even go all the
way through. Right. So this is great and what's nice is we
have also used part of the easement
for the DME transmission line to make a fairly wide
sidewalk further east. Yes further east it's
10 feet wide. This one I've included because it was on the
the list originally. When the list was
developed this was noted as a nice gap we could complete
down here on Robinson Road by Teasley
but kind of in the interim of the list being created and
now this site got developed. I think
it's a daycare and so the sidewalk was built by the
developer so that budget of 15,000 has been
closed out and that money will just roll over to the other
sidewalk projects. So at this point I
wanted to put it in there because it was on the original
list but we'll probably remove it at this
point. This one is on loop 288. Staff has affectionately
called it the Chipotle trail
because it's right there by Chipotle. This as you can see
there's a very noted footpath here as well
and this project got completed just last month right around
budget so this was a really great
connection. This one is not actually part of the sidewalk
bond election funds but I wanted to draw
attention to it anyway. This was a sidewalk built on Hick
ory Creek Road. I think it was completed
early last month. Hickory Creek Road is scheduled to be
widened. They wanted to put this sidewalk in
prior to that project going under construction so this
provides a really great connection
for students walking to McNair Elementary School. So it's
an extra wide it's about 10 feet,
might be eight feet. It goes from Chaucer all the way to
Montecito which is right where kids can
cross the street then to get to McNair. Councilwoman Briggs
. That was my question if the sidewalk
continues all the way to the school. Yes so it goes all the
way from Chaucer to Montecito and at
Montecito there's a crossing I believe they have a crossing
guard there. Okay.
So those are the completed projects. We have two that are
we're on the list that are ready to
go to construction. So this one is Windsor Drive on the
north side from Mesquite to that existing
sidewalk right by the edge of Romans Pizza and that
development right there. This was actually
a request from a citizen who has visual impairments who
walks from the North Lakes Rec Center to their
home on the other side of Elm and Locust. So that's part of
this was we also built that crossing
in front of the North Lakes Rec Center and then if you once
you're on the north side this will create
a sidewalk all the way to Elm and Locust. So I see him
walking like at least once a week so I really
appreciate this. Yeah this one was sort of fast tracked
because of that. He actually walks all
the way past Woodrow Wilson. Yeah he goes very far on Winds
or. Yeah and so this was kind of a gap of
where he'd have to keep crossing the street all the time
and so this would create a nice easy
connection all the way on one side of the street. So this
one the PO right is that right the PO has
been submitted? It should be under construction right now.
Okay. I was told this week is when
they're going to be out there. Great. I mean somebody let
him know just because he's still
walking through this area. I don't have his contact info
but do you? I'll contact him once it's all
done. Okay great thanks Preetan. The next one that's just
about ready is just right here across the
street on McKinney. This picture the north is looking out
to your right not the normal up.
You just looked better on the screen this way. So this is
because we want to keep our connection
across the street. We have this great crosswalk we built.
We want to be able to complete that
sidewalk all the way through there to give people a nice
connection if they want to park over here
and make their way downtown for an event because this
parking is you know available after five and
on the weekends. Right now we're working on coordinating
some utility relocations. DME has
a big transformer right over there and also frontier
communications. We'd ask them I believe
to move one of their poles to put in a ramp at the corner
of Oakland and Oak and we're sort of
working through that. But we do anticipate it should be
done by the end of the year.
Very shortly. I thought this was going to be the quickest
project.
Yeah a few things popped up but so those two are ready to
go and we'll get those ones done and
completed out of those projects. So there's a lot of
remaining projects on the list. So eight of them
on the list are ready to go to design. So either they had
an account set up and had some initial
design work done but for various reasons staffing issues,
staffing changes, everything was sort of
put on hold when we reassessed our sidewalks. So these ones
though have that account set up,
had maybe a survey ordered and maybe a little bit of design
but never a full-on design wasn't ready
to go to construction. So we have eight of those that are
ready to go. Our plan is to bundle those
ones eight together and send them out to a consultant to be
designed and possibly even
constructed. We're still working on the construction side
but they will get designed by an outside firm.
The engineering I believe is putting out an RFP to have an
engineering on retainer I guess is the
right term. But there are still a bunch of remaining
projects on the list, remaining and new
projects that citizens have requested. As you might
remember at last month's meeting we had a
citizen here who requested to have that sidewalk on Amherst
for students to walk to Newton Raiser
Elementary School. So what we would like to do with those
projects is want to bring them all
together and rank them so that we're ranking these projects
based on a set of parameters that we can
then show people this is ranked 50 as above this one's 30.
So we want to take all those projects in
together, rank them and then move forward with the highest
ranked projects until the entire two
million is expended. So as you know we've completed some
projects so there's not two million right now
left in the fund. There's a little over a million in the
fund right now but we want to work towards
completing those projects in that money with the highest
ranked projects. Julie I think Mark has
something you'd like to say. Julie would you mind for the
uh might want to remind the committee some
of the prioritization such as you know the ADA issues,
proximity to event center schools. Yeah
so initially when staff was going through that initial 27
list on the projects on the list
and they noted ones that had close elementary schools what
were ADA issues, what were high
pedestrian areas, also which ones had requests like
repeated requests to staff and which ones
could you actually see a footpath where you know people are
using it. So that was the guiding
principle about the list and how they move forward but we'd
like to just make it a little bit more
objective with this ranking system. So I'm looking at the
large matrix that was on our desk with the
there are five on here that have been ranked and I wanted
to just briefly touch on the north side
of Mingo from Riddell Street to Bell Avenue. Yes. So I know
that TWU has a master plan that they're
working on for the golf course and I'm wondering if we have
coordinated with them to what extent
the sidewalk would have mobility enhancements for their
expanded campus and I guess also if I could
get input from my fellow council members. Thank you for
bringing that up because I wanted to talk
about that. Since there's been a four-story apartment
complex built on Riddell between Mingo
and University Drive and apparently the Texas Williams
University has secured that entire
apartment complex for its students. I'm assuming that
because on move-in day they had signs pointed
to various dorms on campus and to that apartment complex
and since school has started I since I
drive down Mingo a lot I have seen students walking along M
ingo between the the road and the golf
course. On the south side of Mingo. Actually on the north
side of Mingo. Oh yeah that's the north
side. Yeah. The side that's next to the golf course. The
side that's next to the golf course
and my thought is with that many students living there and
with no parking really available on
campus for them I'm sure that a lot of students would be
wanting to either walk or ride their bikes.
Right. So have people on staff been in touch with the
administration at TWU
regarding the possibility of relocating that fits back a
little bit. I know that there's some issues
along there because of some of the drainage but driving on
that road daytime and night time
there are too many times when people especially dealing
with the the drainage going under the road
get up on the roadway you're wearing dark clothes and you
don't see them until you're on them
and somebody's going to get hurt. So has anybody talked to
TWU are we doing anything to possibly
press forward with that. I haven't spoken with them
recently but I do believe we had a meeting
with them at one point to discuss that. Councilman Redd, it
was at a very high level we do need to
re-engage in some detailed conversations with them. We're
also looking at some conversations
with them along Roodale Street where they've got they've
got on the northbound side of Roodale
there's a bus stop there and there's not much room there
and we've noticed where we've got
citizens or riders that are sitting literally on the curb
kind of out into the right of way so
we do have multiple issues that we'd like to see if we
could work with TWU in terms of
enhancing pedestrian and alternative transportation. Well I
would I would encourage
you all to do so soon and to report back to us when you're
here. Very well. Councilman
comment on that as well. I drive that street regularly and
they're not just students but a
lot of people walking and riding along that using that as a
road to get to downtown area as well so
I was glad to see that on the list and I hope that stays
close to priority. Right so Mingo is
definitely a key connection we had bike counts out on Mingo
two years ago and there was a high
amount of people biking on that road for well it's very inh
ospitable to people biking and walking
and it's probably one of the most requested streets I get
from people to do something for
bike and pedestrian safety so it's it's definitely
something on our on our minds. One note though if
you if you look at I think it was exhibit two, exhibit one,
that the Mingo road is number 28 and
it's the estimated cost was 625,000 at that point it was
more than the two million so at this point
it was unfunded but I wanted to go ahead and give that
project ranking because if it was ranked
really high you know it would hopefully move up and we
would do that one sooner based on how it
ranked. So we'll go into the ranking now we wanted to
create a ranking system where we could you know
say this was you know 50 and this one was 30 we're going to
do this one first that we could show to
the public this is why we wanted to do this project first.
So pre-time actually worked on this ranking
system researched what other cities had been doing created
this first there was the pedestrian
potential pedestrian potential potential index signing
points based on the likelihood of
pedestrian travel on that road so elementary schools middle
schools get a certain number of
points on a transit route gets some certain points if there
's a noted footpath it gets so many points
that actually comes to a total of 30-35 points and then
there's also what we call the deficiency
index so how critically is this project needed so what's
the posted speed limit or have there been
pedestrian crashes on that roadway is there an existing
sidewalk how many lanes or a road are
there that comes to a total of 51 points so right now the
total is at 81 pre-time and I were discussing
maybe it'd be best to make it so the number was 100 that
way people it's easy more relatable if
you can say this was 99 out of 100 as opposed to this was
50 out of 80 so that's something we'd
like to look into. So as I said I didn't want to rank all
the projects on the list because I wanted
to be able to bring the ranking criteria to this group
first see if there were any suggestions and
then if we wanted to refine the ranking and then at that
point we'd go ahead and rank all the rest
of those projects so I ranked just a sampling of them Amher
st that was the one Dr. Brighill last
week had not last month had requested so I went ahead to
rank that one Alice was also an email we'd
gotten from some people that Alice needed to have a
sidewalk for students going to Calhoun and also to
my mind is blanked Denton High in that area and then North
side of Mingo Nottingham is also on on
the list and then Northside of McKinney from Bell Place to
Railroad down here which has a noted
footpath so you can see that Alice ranked really high 54
out of 81 and you can see how those those
ranked at the time when we put this together pedestrian
crashes I had not received them yet
Julie just one moment council member okay go for it so a
question about I'm curious
just because I'd like to see behind the curtain how a thank
you how a
the Alice Street got a slightly higher ranking than Amherst
how do we how do we
right so Alice actually because Alice had it was close to a
high school and an elementary school
and a middle school so it got some extra points there I
mean it wasn't much higher actually I
noticed there was an error I gave six when the highest
number is actually a four so Alice is
actually at 52 so it's only one higher than the Amherst one
and that's because it was also close
to a high school so those ones were basically neck and neck
basically they're safe routes to
school projects and what I was saying before pedestrian
crashes I had asked for those from
the police department I had not received that back from
them yet when I initially put this
together and it was posted but I did receive those back
late on Friday and only one one street on
this list currently had a pedestrian crash and that was on
mingo road so a pedestrian crash gives
10 points so mingo would actually jump up to being 52 sorry
it is just odd to say that a
pedestrian crash gets 10 points right that did come out
possibly wrong but if there's a
pedestrian crash sure we want to make sure that's a high
priority council member bricks so I do know
speaking of that in the area of Calhoun and didn't hide
there have been a couple of accidents on bikes
and pedestrians so are any of the the projects in that area
where the accidents happened are they on
this list or is that a sidewalk issue or is that well a
different issue is a bike crash or
pedestrian crash but one of each yeah bike crash wouldn't
necessarily make it on this list because
we don't sidewalks aren't built for people who are riding
their bikes sidewalks were built for
pedestrians but I do remember there being the crash on is
it Fulton not Fulton Crescent thank you
the crash was on Crescent not on Alice and Alice is on the
list but we could possibly broaden
where the pedestrian crash occurs is it near the area if we
wanted to include that in the list
so no right now the pedestrian crash that occurred on Cres
cent is not included in this right here
work but pre-tem correct me if I'm wrong I understand that
engineering or traffic operations
is working on another solution to address that scenario or
the issue over on Crescent and DHS
correct can you go to a map so that it's easier to explain
yeah just an aerial quick one
yeah so last week I went out there met the principal of
Denton High as well as
Denton ISD environmental safety manager he's the person
that takes care of safety around all the
campuses he's our main contact for the ISD and got to talk
to them as far as issues what are the
concerns they see how it can be remedied and what we
noticed while we were out on the site we noticed
that there's a northern parking lot north of Crescent keep
on going this way yeah right that one
so the north parking lot it is close to 150 spaces there
and it's primarily students are parking
there and if you look at the entire furniture it's on a
curve with no fencing no kind of
restriction for students so they cross every which way
everywhere across Crescent people that
are traveling on Crescent when they come around the curve
they don't have a way to know if a student
is going to jump in front of them what's going to happen
there is a school zone currently between
right it starts right in the first house near Fulton going
westbound and then eastbound in the
middle of the baseball field so that particular area is 20
miles an hour when the school is in
session in the morning time as well as afternoon time so it
is it is already implemented but what
is missing from there was a flashing sign to actually pull
attention from motorists saying
you know it is a 20-mile zone and they should be aware of
that so we did find a few people doing
30 close to 30 25 to 30 and that would be definitely
helpful so as far as the city's
concerned we're thinking of adding those flashers at those
locations the other thing that was brought
up is a pedestrian crossing signage that has those flashing
signs with lights that are across
from the street on McKinney a couple of those one at the
corner where it really turns and then
the other one on the other side will make this area much
more better as far as you know drawing
attention from motorists for pedestrians that might be on
the street the other thing then ISD is
is going to take care of that they're going to put a fence
across that entire frontage so that
kids are only allowed to get out where the sidewalk kind of
meets on either side so that would be a
better option to channelize them on either side so those
are the three things that we looked at.
Thank you, councilman. Thank you. I would encourage the
fence or something and I'm assuming
that anytime that there's an analysis of a crash a
pedestrian vehicle accident that we look really
closely because I know that that the city took quite a bit
of of criticism about two years ago
or within the last two years for some high school students
that were crossing loop 288
close to the intersection of loop 288 and McKinney street.
The problem was had they gone
about 50 yards further to the north they would have had a
controlled crosswalk.
It was there it was available for them but they didn't use
it. Their adolescents and they feeling
vulnerable to being hurt and they ran across the street in
the dark and one of them was was killed.
So I think that you know when you think about them when you
think about teenagers putting fences that
that they would be less likely to try to climb over on
their way to school and making them walk
down to a safer place to cross would probably add a lot to
the safety feature because I don't think
that just painting a line across the street is going to do
enough to encourage them to use that.
Yeah and that's also we discussed about the crosswalk and
even the principal as well as the
safety manager there felt that crosswalk would kind of
create an unsafe situation just because
kids are not going to look up anymore if there's a cross
walk they'll just focus and expect the cars
to stop as if thinking that you know they're invincible
they're that age that they think this
car is going to stop so we kind of eliminated the crosswalk
. Councilmember Briggs. So on the
sidewalk looking at this picture on Crescent I see there's
the sidewalk here on the school and
there's not one on the opposite. How far does the does the
sidewalk from the school go all the way to
Fulton and then all the way to Malone?
Correct I think I'm just curious of what we're talking
about sidewalks.
This did not build a sidewalk here.
So there's not a complete one from okay no okay the school
built the sidewalk and
this church did not.
Okay that's interesting thank you and just one more
question on the that list that we were talking
about the itemized list you mentioned most of those are
scored high because of the
distance to school or schools. Does that qualify them for
safe routes to school funding?
Yes if safe routes to school funding was available we would
apply for it but again that's federal
funding we don't have safe routes to school funding at the
city. Right well I know you have to apply
for it but yes definitely it's another way to make sure
that we have funding. Okay yes so this would
be the ranking we'd go with the PPI and the DI but then as
we were discussing projects we'd also
be able to have taken some other considerations such as
availability of right-of-way cost and
coordination with other projects. So perhaps a project that
ranked fairly high but was going to
maybe be part of a larger project a good example is down on
Londonderry we have that on our list
but Londonderry is having some work done around there so we
might wait on that project to coordinate
with that one instead. Cost could be a very prohibitive
factor we only have two million well
less than two million now to spend on sidewalks so it's a
decision we'd have to make if this was a
really expensive project but we got a lot of bang for that
buck maybe we'd still try to do it. So we
would use the ranking as our initial scoring which ones are
highest to work on and then
internal staff we'd meet together and decide is this
project feasible for different different
options. I know as I was going through this ranking ranking
these these sample projects
I did notice there were some things I'd probably like to
change such as the the
operating speed you only get one point if it's 30 to 34
miles per hour but most of our streets
in Denton are 30 miles an hour and you get the most points
if it's over 50 from a primary
arterial so I maybe like to rework that one to give a
little more points because our streets are
a lot of them are just our neighborhood streets that need
sidewalks and they're only at 30 miles
an hour so does anybody else have any discussion points
about things you'd like to possibly see in
the ranking or anything like that I mean we'll try to move
forward with it.
I would have a question about the points that are allotted
for elementary schools and high schools
so do the universities have points allotted as well like
proximity to a university? No they do
not on this list it's just high school elementary and then
you know employment local interest which
you could consider a university local interest but perhaps
we should add a distinct column for
close to a university. I would say so because that's where
you get a lot of pedestrians so
I would think that that score is at least similar to what
an undergrad school or I guess children's
school would score. Right okay we can definitely work that
in. So Councilman Briggs sorry and that's
right and just on the sidewalks and we're speaking about
distance to schools I do know that buses do
not run within three miles of a school and so if a an area
is within three miles of a school does
it get higher priority for sidewalks as compared to those
that yeah things closest to the school
quarter mile then you get points for a half a mile to three
quarter of a mile okay those get the
highest points if it's closest to the school. Okay thank
you. So I don't know if you had a question.
Great so we just want to review and approve this ranking
system we'll move forward we'll make some
of those small changes and move forward with that. We'll
want to rank the remaining projects that are
on this list and take a new request so our my plan is to we
would like to create a website a web page
on the website that has the sidewalks listed and where you
can request a new site. We want to be
able to take a new request from citizens have a place for
them to request that we'll go ahead and
rank that put it in with the rest of the ranking and every
quarter or if it needs to be more
frequently if we have a lot of requests staff will meet
together to reassess those rankings and
maybe we'll move projects based on that. Like I said yeah
we'll reassess that list quarterly and
then we'll continue until all the funds get expended and
hopefully we'll be able to build
a lot of sidewalks. So this is just for our our new
sidewalks building with our two million dollars.
We are working on creating an ADA transition plan that
would hopefully assess existing sidewalks
that need to get fixed or maintained repaired and
eventually we'd like to have a listing and
a ranking of all of our sidewalk gaps in the city. As you
know this list that we have right now is
not even all the the gaps that we have in the city so we'd
like to work towards being
much more proactive in assessing our sidewalk list and how
we can move forward with that.
Well that sounds great to me. I think having the public
input and having it be in a place that
people can access is a great idea. I'll just go back to the
mingo issue again. I really encourage
you guys to work with the administration at TWU because I
think that road is scheduled to be
expanded at some point in the distant future. I thought it
might be on a list somewhere.
Maybe not. I don't know. Well I'll work with engineering
and see what we can.
I thought I thought I heard something about you know
distant future mingo expansion but it could
have just been like wishful thinking or something. So I
would just hope that we have a really
comprehensive look at that particular area. Madam Chair
there had been some discussion with
with TWU administration when we were working on the Pres
cott property up at 380 with DCTA in terms
of how that line would work, how that might have to push
out and mingo and if there was an interest
by TWU. So we need to re-engage the. Okay well thank you.
All right thank you Julie. Oh wait I'm
sorry Councilman Briggs. I just wanted to follow up and say
thank you for bringing this discussion to
us. I'm really glad that we're having it and the most
complaints we get as council members are for
streets and sidewalks and so I'm glad to see that we're
having this discussion and making it priority.
Thank you. Thank you. Okay thanks Julie. Our next item is
item D. Receive a report hold a discussion
and provide direction regarding Texas Department of
Transportation on system projects in the Denton
area to include the 35 express project. Which one? The
mobility committee. Do you have to go on?
Oh I can do that. John you're presenting.
You're getting fancy John.
Also the the scrolling doesn't work on this mouse.
Yeah yeah or you can like do that. Don't give me options.
But the button doesn't work I just got
with that. I still try to use it though. Here it is.
Okay yeah like how small do you want it? Okay there you go.
Okay so I'll just run through the report real quick and you
guys can stop me. If you need that
bigger I can have Julie come back up. So here we go. So the
first project we're going to go over
is the 2181 north south project. This report was submitted
prior to the October 5th. We actually
had the meeting the pre-construction meeting with MCM on
this project. Out of that pre-construction
meeting several things from an action item came out. One is
that MCM is not going to be allowed
to start the project until they have their baseline
schedule submitted and an office site
established. Now MCM has decided to co-locate their office
with their batch plant. So it's
typically the batch plant that is the difficult item to
acquire the location of and I'm wondering
to kind of get this a little bigger to show you kind of
where they are looking to do it and it's
going to require the city to you know walk through the
process of their permitting if it's even allowed.
So here's the 2499. I know that says 2499 but that's
whatever reason that's wrong.
2499 this location right here is an open area. You need to
stand by the microphone. Sorry.
This area right in here where the star is wherever that is
is the location they're looking at.
This is 2499. The only other location they can find in the
area that's close is down here by
Park Ridge across from Lake Dallas High School. The reason
this is probably less than
positive for them to use is because as you know when Geyer
and they've also asked the ISD to use
their site consistent with their Belfour guys but the
school district said there's not enough room.
So if they use the Park Ridge site,
does that push? Ah it's like a laser. So if they use the
Park Ridge site in this area what happens
is these pointers always make me look like I'm drinking a
lot of coffee. They have to truck their
materials along 2181 to construct a project and as you know
in this area where
Geyer High School is, twice a day basically in the morning
and the afternoon,
there's no traffic that's going to get through here and the
other problem is they don't want
to have a lot of traffic moving through this area during
that time frame. So if they can
access this site as a batch plant in their office then they
'll be able to have direct access to the
entire project corridor. Now as a side note they're also
got a contract with Corinth to,
man that is shaky, to extend Lake Sharon to 2499 and that's
a project that they've got going on
concurrent and so then once they get that graded out they
'll be able to come to 2499 off that graded
area off of Lake Sharon. So they're requesting the city
consider a permit for batch plant in this area.
I know that that's a sensitive topic and so I think at the
last meeting we had Chad was there
from engineering was the I think was Chad and then Tim
Fisher was there for a bit but then he had to
go so they were going to get back with somebody with the
staff level to find out what that
permitting process or even if it is possible for a batch
plant at that location and the reason
that's a critical path item again it's where they create
and make their concrete on site so it's
they'll bring in the sand, the gravel, the Portland and
they create the concrete for the project on site.
Council Member Briggs and so that's the permit they're
looking for before they can get this project going?
Correct it's it's a it'll be like a permit through the city
's I guess building process because it's a
you know batch plants are not a pleasant thing to be next
to.
Right.
And I think the city has requirements for noise abatement,
curfew hours, etc.
that you can't apply to the construction of the project
because it's a state project
but you can apply it to the permit for the batch plant
because it's yours to either give or not give.
So is the batch plant temporary or it's permanent?
It's temporary for the length of the project and so they're
putting their offices there
as well and the contract says they can't start the project
until they have their offices established
and for whatever reason they've decided to co-locate and so
MCM is going to be turning in there
their baseline schedule on October 19th and once that
occurs, TXDOT will agree to it because it's
going to be at the 650-day length on the contract. The
contract time starts but they won't allow them
to go to construction until they have this office site set
up which requires a permit from the city
and for the batch plant. So it's kind of all intertwined
and I think the appropriate staff
have been communicated. I thought I saw Chad's
communicating with somebody at the meeting the
other day so I'm just kind of throwing that out there for
whoever's responsible for that.
The other thing we need on this project is the city of Dent
on has a water line that MCM is going
to be constructing first as a part of this project and
there was some confusion. I think Tim had to
leave for an earlier meeting on there. MCM was under the
impression that they had to get the water
line in and open by May of next year but what it is is that
I think the city was saying there's a
certain few months June, July, August where you can't do
the cutover unless it's specific times
because it's a high use period for your water line. So
somebody from the city utilities is going to
provide that date because that matters because if it's May
they want to do a different schedule
than if it's November and November is the normal process by
which they would do it and as long as
the city is okay with not being those three months in the
summer then it helps the schedule
with MCM to be able to do it in November as opposed to May.
Okay so that's 2181. I know I've covered a lot of stuff on
that but
contractor's on contract. He's getting ready to go but he
can't start till he gets some of his paperwork done.
And I have a question for Pre-Tim. Do you know where that
batch permit is at?
So they I don't even think they've submitted it because we
weren't even sure.
This was my mistake. I thought that the city had an
ordinance precluding batch plants in the city
but Chad checked on it and said no they don't have an
ordinance precluding them but they do have an
ordinance that requires certain mitigation so there we're
going to go check on that. So they
haven't submitted an application because they don't even
know that they can. They're waiting to find
out if it's even possible. However with all with all the
staff changes that we've had in the
planning department we make sure that all the appropriate
contacts are out there so that
that is submitted to the right individual. Okay.
Okay John I don't want to rush you or anything but we only
have the room for
about 50-45 more minutes. So I take that long I need to be
hitting the head.
We have two more items after you that's the only reason I'm
actually rushing you.
Okay so forward drive the long short of it is if you look
there it says right away completes
December 2017. Utility relocations is October but ready to
let is November. That doesn't seem to
make sense except that the only piece of right away we have
left on this project to acquire
is right there where the railroad track crosses 377. There
's a billboard on the railroad right
away in the city of Denton. The city of Denton does have an
ordinance that says billboards
can't be replaced. Clear channels already been compensated
for their for their loss and we're
going to include the value of the loss of revenue with the
UP in their exhibit A. So although we
still have one more parcel to acquire it doesn't affect the
project because it's on the right away
for the UP. The relocations will be completed in October
and so the project is going to be ready
to let by November. The only thing left after that is to
get the exhibit A from the Union Pacific
Railroad and we just received a very lengthy email from
Sherry Boyd who is the key person working on
this at Lochner coordinating with the folks at UP and it
appears that we have some synergy as to
getting that exhibit A done probably before the end of the
year's out which means that if we know
that we can start to move the project forward for a let
date sometime around the first of the year.
Okay 2499 section five I'll scroll down for that.
So this project is supposed to be completed in December
primarily the work is being done up here
in the north. In this area in the northern section where it
ties into 35 and then the area where it
ties into the state school those are the primary areas to
work in and they need to get completed.
And they're saying that they'll have that done by December
also as part of this project we have
the city has submitted 60 percent plans to text that for
the signal at Robinson Road which is
right there which allows the text dot to tell wherever
where to put the base
foundations for the poles and to order the materials and so
by the time we get the plans
done we should have the the material we need for the signal
unless pre-10 wants to change anything
I just said. Yeah I want to add to it we have been in touch
with the project manager for text on the
on that particular project Mark Wiley and we have confirmed
locations of the foundation so
he's going to go ahead and start pouring the foundations.
60 percent plan they barely had
any comments so we're almost close to submitting the final
plans to the district office Dallas
district and hopefully by December we have something in
place before it opens. So the
contract's kind of going slower than it was supposed to
because of some work this has to be done in the
north but that's to our advantage because we want to get
the signal up and running before they open
the road so it looks like the schedule's working on in our
direction on that one.
So this is the I-35E Mayhill 2499 improvement we've already
got a project manager's name is
Travis Campbell we do know that the firm that's going to be
doing the Mayhill bridge which is
going to be the ultimate bridge and its width underneath 35
for Mayhill not the ultimate width
for 35 because we're not doing we're not touching 35 will
be LTRA so they've got LTRA they're in
the process of contracting with them Texthout will do all
the advanced planning and the engineering
it's already environmentally cleared and we're staying
inside existing right away because we're
widening the underneath the freeway to widen the bridge for
Mayhill to get six lanes or better
underneath it so no right away is going to be required it's
already environmentally cleared there
will be some utility adjustments I'm certain if they're out
there and this is a project that
will probably be funded out of that 10-year funding that
Texthout allocated to 35E from the
county line with Dallas county up to 380 so we just got to
get it done.
And then this is the look 288 Brinker Mayhill project
basically the critical I'm just going to jump to the Texth
out construction report we're working on
completing the the getting totally done with the water line
during this next month we're going to
be working with OHL to get what's called a recovery
schedule because right now they are saying February
2019 and the contract was originally August of 18 and there
were some delays at the front of the
project but we feel that there is an ability for OHL if
they so choose to do to recover a lot of
that time frame so we're going to require them to provide
us a recovery schedule to see what they
got to do to get back on track with this project and then
it'll be up to because the you know the
city put in two million bucks through the developer the
county put in about 18-19 million of it the
rest was uh state funds and so if the group primarily the
county and the state decide that
whatever it takes to expedite that recovery schedule if it
requires additional funding then
we'll look at adding additional funding in the project at
that time but the intent is to get it
back on on track for the August 2018 completion. 35 North
this is a segment from 380 uh to the
candle line again this is a project that TechStat is taking
the lead on they have HDR doing the work
and they should be completed with the schematic by what did
I say up here
the schematic by the end of this year that's right we're
probably going to have the public
hearing on this project in the summer of next year with it
being environmentally cleared after that
everything else is a guess after the environmental
clearance an assumption but that that July public
hearing in December 18 uh environmental clearance is a
target date that the state wants to hit
and then the in town project you all know because you all
drive it all the time
that it's essentially open and they're basically as the
report shows they're just doing punch list
items and tdlr uh inspections to make sure it's ADA
compliant. Briefly John. In interest of time
there was a question on landscaping associated with the in
town section there's a there's a
memo on the back of your of your report to indicate that we
're going to start moving forward with the
trees later this fall fall next summer by working forward
with a green ribbon project to do the
landscaping so we can take questions later on that just
wanted to point that out as part of this
project. Great thank you Mark. Okay so this is a new one to
your list uh this is the 380 loop 288
intersection improvement and essentially we're going to do
it in two phases one we're going to
do an interim improvement and then as we come in with 380
from 288 out we'll do a more permanent
improvement and what the interim improvement and so I was
going to ask to go to an aerial but if
we got don't have a lot of time then I'll just stay here
essentially what the interim improvement
is going to do is they're going to they're going to take if
you notice up here there's a u-turn
lane with this big island that sticks out and then but you
'll see that the nose of the nose
is going to be a little bit more than that.
For the turn lane north to 288 off of University it stops
about right there dang it I'm really
good with the firearm but so uh it stops about there so
what we're talking about doing is chopping
off part of the the island here and then the left turn lane
will be a left the u-turn will be a u-turn
and a left with the existing left turn lane first lane
being a through left and then I'll give you a
through and then they'll add pavement back to wherever the
drainage ditch is on the outside
so that they all make a free right turn and all that is
being done probably with asphalt
just to get it in the project right now and it'll stay
inside takes that right away that's why
they're doing moving it to the inside as opposed to the
outside but when they come back and we do the
ultimate project which is another project on the list they
'll come back and look at this and do it
in more permanent structures with concrete and whatnot.
Council Member Gregory. I am not an engineer
our engineers all know that and tell themselves that every
time that I start to talk.
I would imagine that there is maybe not one car out of a
hundred
that goes straight through and straight north on that why
would they they would just stay on the
the loop the problem seems to be that that that lane that
that gives that allows you to go straight
or to turn left isn't quite wide enough especially when a
big 18 wheeler is trying to turn right
and and it doesn't provide enough room and as a result my
neighbors you know get their cars
side swiped by the cars and then they call me and they fuss
at me as if I designed that
but it seems like that the solution is to make the right
turn lane put a little more asphalt on the
right hand side maybe four or five feet to give those
vehicles wanting to go right to room. Have
you been out there and looked at it have you all been out
there? So I thought I just said that. Oh
you did? But I'll repeat what you were saying. The whole
intent is to move everything to the inside
so that you can not just have a little bit of a right turn
lane but a full length right turn lane.
So they're going to fix it? They're pushing everything to
the inside rather than the outside.
So you're basically adding another lane to the inside so
you can give that whole
last lane to be the free right turn lane. I don't care
which side it gets. Well the way the reason
we're doing it this way is this is all tech stock right
away. Right. We don't have to bother any
adjacent property owners we don't have to go through any
this is just a maintenance
deal and Tina Massey we were at the kickoff meeting for 21
81 we were talking about this and
you know she said yeah the only thing is is that right in
that island
I'm not supposed to walk away from the mic but right in
that island
right there is a controller it looks like for your signal
so we either need to like try to miss that
or the city may have to help us by moving that a little bit
. I'll add to this I agree with you that
people do not go through on that center lane so I don't
know how realistic this is but
the way that I've seen that road back up it is people going
to the developments on 380 east
they're turning right and there's not sufficient space but
also not sufficient lanes so I don't
know if if it's even possible to do two right turns or do
it through right. We'll work with
the city and the operations guys at TXDOT to do the optimal
amount of lane balancing but
we're just saying you've got a left turn you got a u-turn
out there that's minimally used that's
taken up a lot of space that we can take that and add
additional lane there which allows us to
give us the most optimal you know segregation of the of the
turning movements. Okay. This stays all
within TXDOT right away so we're on this we should see
hopefully if we get all this stuff
worked out soon this should be something we could do fairly
quickly.
Okay so 380 east this is a project where TXDOT's doing the
green design in-house and there
says that they'll have a 30 percent submittal on the green
section in the spring of '18.
We're still working they're hiring two consultants I
checked today to see who they were they haven't
given me the answer yet but they're working with two
consultants to do the PS&E on 380 in the blue
section. There are 89 parcels to acquire in the blue and 25
parcels to acquire in the green and
they're looking at having a May 2021 let date for this
project.
Luke 288 west so this is a project where we are about ready
to submit the 30 percent schematic.
We have some conformity issues we have to deal with which
may delay the time frame up here of
the environmental clearance. It's already been stuck in
there the reason we have an EA out of
December 2020 when we've got the 30 plans done and we're
expecting to have the schematic approved by
next year is because right now this project is not in the
mobility plan in the proper year so we've
got to update the mobility plan to move 288 into a
environmental clearance date and then we'll move
the environmental date to like 2018-2019 so it's just a
paper chase. I know it didn't make any
sense what I just said but it's all regulatory stuff that
we have to follow it doesn't make any
sense to me but we're closer than the schedule would allow
is all I'm saying. All right 1515 is
affirmed we got LTRA the county's got that we have had
comments both from TechStack and responses
back from LTRA and we anticipate having John sorry Council
man Briggs. So when you said mobility plan
do you mean whose mobility plan? Boom the uh Regents the
mobility 2040. So right now they're
updating the mobility 2040 to 2045 and so we're trying to
get the loop 288 and 35w a couple of
things in Denton county that are in the wrong year
corrected in this update but when I'm I was saying
the mobility plan I mean the Regents mobility 2040. Just
double checking because we have one too.
Yes and folks out there that are listening they're probably
as usual confused when I speak.
So again LTRA we expect to have them on contract I'm going
to say by the end of the month and I'll
just have to beat my staff to make sure it happens and then
1830 this is the uh this is the project
where they're doing the shoulder and the bridge replacement
and the TechStack report is here and
it looks like they're just continuing to work on the uh the
uh embankments and the you know flex
base and all that so I haven't had any complaints on this
project I have had complaints from the
from folks that are not interested in the state's desire to
widen it to four lanes but
I'll have the chance at the public meetings to have a
comment on it. I think that's all I have.
Hope I got another under the window. Does anybody have
questions for John Polster?
It's very nerve-wracking. Okay thank you John. He did great
.
Okay we are on item E now. Receiver report and hold a
discussion regarding mobility improvements.
Committee members uh Pre-Tam is going to give a short
presentation but just to give you a heads up
at your uh at your August 26th retreat council retreat you
had requested uh gave staff direction
to look at some short-term improvements that would enhance
the mobility of our community
and so these are some of the things that staff has been
looking at and so we're vetting those
projects and hope to bring these to you to give you a just
inform you and then bring it to the
full council at a future work session. All right given the
time um I have a few slides I can go
through um but let's start with the actual list and this is
a list of intersections or and or
street segments and and or studies different things that
are identified here and I'll talk
a little bit about what service areas means and why we are
going this route and we've arranged
it this way but we've we're looking at about 22 things here
if you look down the list.
Some of them are design projects which include widening of
streets some of them are short-term
adding turn lanes right turn lane left turn lane just to
improve capacity and get some immediate
relief. Some of these projects are around hundred thousand
hundred and fifty thousand dollar projects
which are quick fixes and when we started looking at all
these and looking at the amounts
we started thinking of how we need to fund it and that's
where these service areas came in.
We started looking at roadway impact fee and these are the
different service areas A B C D E
five service areas and we started categorizing what's
needed in each of these service areas
immediately other than what are already is going on through
the textile projects of widening all
these larger highways within the city. So under the first
area if you look at the area A there's
nothing out there barely any development going on but we do
have under mobility plan we do have
some you know lines there those are primary and secondary
highways they've looked at. We are
looking at a big picture in the mobility plan for the whole
entire city but we didn't really focus on
specifically this area so we're planning on doing is
conducting a circulation study that looks at
how would you join some of these arterials and secondaries
you know how would you put in
collectors what kind of access points and start better
defining so when developers come in they
don't rule or they don't tell us what they're going to put
in or how they're going to connect
but we already have a plan to go and say this is how you
can address it and this is how we can
better develop our infrastructure and circulation. So that
's the first service area and circulation
study is something that we immediately need it's about 40
000 dollars that we'll need there.
The second area is area B it's the area to the south it's
developing pretty fast and
if you look at the first improvement it's the country club
road and Ryan everyone knows there
are about three intersections on country club the hickory
creek is number two and then the top most
which is Hobson lane right there under that B. Hobson lane
at country club is going to get
modified it's going to improve as part of 377 widening
project which is soon going under
construction I think John mentioned some something about it
. Council member Briggs just can you
remind me the impact fees they're collected they have to be
used within that certain area
is that correct so that's what we're talking about here
dividing them up that means those fees were
collected and they need to be spent in that area. Correct
and there's a specific amount within the
area collected and that only goes to improvement stores
that's why we are going based on the areas
of service so we've identified each of these improvements
within service areas.
All right and then if you look at the improvements they're
about 100 150 000 dollars just to turn
lanes on hickory creek and ryan road it will definitely
improve circulation and get the left
turners out of the lane and you know make a better
functioning intersection. The other two the number
three and four are design projects these are sections that
are missing we need to design them
first widening Robinson road between 2181 and just east of
it where the development starts it's
it's this area that's marked here this area and so between
2499 and 2181 is where we don't have a
widened Robinson road so we need to design it first and
then we'll move forward with the
construction part and later on but the second one is also
designed the next one is hickory creek
road we have a small section that connects to 2499 that's
not designed it's not widened
widening is not designed at this point council member cragg
ie the funding for
Robinson road and one for hickory creek would it would that
be in a bond election
and not to to happen or has it already been included in a
previous one election
the funding has not been included in the okay no and you
don't anticipate getting enough funding
from the road impact fees to do a project of that nature no
so that's why we're more focused on
getting the design completed so when we go for bond
election we have a better idea of what's needed
we have better estimates and everything is we're lined we
're lining ourselves to get the money all
right thank you um the next the last one is the uh signal
ization at hickory creek and 2499 at some
point once it's widened even when once it's open we might
run into some higher volumes just because
there's a lot of neighborhoods that access this part of h
ickory creek they can directly connect
to 2499 which is going to be a pretty much a regional
connector north and south once it opens
so we might have to look at this in a near future and that
's why that was identified there are other
improvements along 2181 part of the uh text art project 377
part of text art project so a bunch of
the near-term improvements or short-term improvements will
be addressed with these two major projects
but the we're also looking at some other intersection
improvements that are needed
next service areas area c um the first one is carolyn sh
erman there's a lot of people that go
northbound on carolyn want to go towards sherman i think
the intersection is right here it's right
barely in the area but majority of the traffic comes in and
wants to take sherman to go north
and that's a movement that needs to be fixed and we have a
plan that we think might work but better
signal and better capacity for left and right turn
movements and that would take about 425 000
dollars to fix that intersection the next one is locust elm
and 77 this is actually a design and
analysis the intersection of where locust elm and 77 meet
it's a it's a kind of a weird
intersection where one way's elm begins a one way and then
locust kind of ends in one way we're
looking at a better design we will analyze it and design it
so that traffic flows smoothly then
windsor i'm sorry hercules and locust is another section
this part of hercules doesn't exist but
as part of recent development projects in that area it's
going to be built in so the intersection
of locust and hercules is definitely we need to add turn
lanes left turns both directions
do you have a council member uh regarding hercules and loc
ust well over a year ago a
resident that lives in the neighborhood uh where the
western part of hercules is came to us
um what's it called north point uh just talking about the
fact that there is only one way in and
out and we were told that that street was going to be
connected and my understanding is there's no
agreement yet on getting that done can can you give us some
kind of timeline or or
and and does the city own the right-of-way for that for
that uh street or what's the story there the
story is um we are currently talking to the developer that
has come up with a submitted a
plan for the south side of hercules but just west of locust
so the whole area north of mckinney i can
pull in a second
side note i really love the pretend just use bing to get to
google maps
and it went away i guess it's going to give us some trouble
so uh we're talking about this parcel
this parcel just came in there in the uh planning process
we've requested a traffic analysis and
they're working through that but the developer also has
interest in developing this property
and there is another parcel here so they're talking about
coming in as a first phase and
then second and third and as part of these two this entire
roadway will be designed and built
by single entity of course the participation will be
figured out as far as you know how much developer
pays in depending on their roadway impact fees and what
kind of credits they get is part of that but
uh developer has agreed to design and construct this link
would that be considered a perimeter
street it is a perimeter street and from what i remember in
our discussions perimeter streets
are the developer could get credit for those in as far as
the road impact fee uh that's what
is being talked about okay so i'm jumping again sorry so um
what is going to happen is the
development is going to connect into this street as well as
doors so both these are going to go
into this whole new subdivision i think there are about 180
houses in this first lot and then
further more houses down here and a connection here so they
are currently working on the traffic
impact studies and once we get that but this intersection
if you look at it doesn't have any
turn lanes going left turn so that needs to be improved uh
we've already identified we'll work
if the traffic study comes back and requires that we'll
work with the developer to put that in
if it doesn't then we definitely need to identify funds on
our end too and then one more on that
with connecting that when hercules gets connected that's
going to put an awful lot more uh
residential traffic going out on north locust street which
is a state facility right correct
and pollsters left
what uh is is that in the queue for any kind of uh
addressing uh the the width in order to handle
the the future traffic because there's a development going
on north of the uh loop that will probably
impact that also correct so part of their tia is going to
look at intersection here because
people are going to cut through and there will be a signal
ized intersection and negotiate has been
currently constructed it will look at this connection this
connection and then this whole
interchange so uh that traffic impact study will tell us
how much traffic is being diverted and
what kind of impacts are you going to look at and once the
development goes in but the development
that's that's north of loop 288 and directly west of the
the gonzalez school
has is is currently going in and right now they're all
going off onto um
are they going to connect into 2164 this is the parcel that
is being developed they're currently
uh connecting off of stewart there's no direct connection
on this side okay
i'm not aware of future phases but at this point i know
that this is the only parcel that was
developed and it's in two phases they just completed the
first phase steward doesn't go all the way
through okay yes uh on a on a side note yes taut just
reminded me that we are talking to
um cog about this whole area and a connection or even uh
talking about outer loop cog was
involved in the outer loop study and alternatives and one
of the alternatives was to bring in um
down this path down 428 and then used part of 288 and
connect to 35 that would be part of their
outer loop for the entire dfw region and they're looking at
options there are different alignments
that would connect to 35 but they're looking we're also
looking at this alternative as an outer loop
so okay i'm sorry i'm getting too depth so going back to
the presentation we're on air let me just
wrap it up in service area d we have uh sherwin and loop 28
8 one of the things there is the lanes
are misaligned they're not definitely aligned with each
other they the through lanes left turn lanes
right turn lanes don't align what we are going to do is add
some asphalt to widen it a little bit
and make sure that they align long and steward it comes in
as a weird angle i think long goes
south a little bit and connects us to work we need to
change that angle because we're getting
complaints about the side distance so that's one of the
quick fixes we need to realign it
university noddingham and old north i think council member
brings is very aware of those
left turn missings and they're shared and all that so we've
identified that we need to fix those
in the short term so as the funding becomes available you
know start addressing these with
the design and construction and then loop 288 and
university i think uh texas is already working on
that part so we'll probably drop this one eventually next
one is the last area is area e and this is
where most of the city is completely developed and um we're
looking at major intersections that
require upgrade but we identify what's the interim quick
fixes so for example bell and mckinney we're
talking about adding a northbound right turn lane uh along
bell that would help us uh address some
of it our main need is north and south left turn lanes but
that's going to take a whole lot more
money not 120k loop 288 and colorado is extending the left
turn from colorado onto the loop
if you're coming from the side of the mall golden triangle
mall and then you're hitting the loop
that left turn extends all the way into the through lanes
so quickly within 200 000 we can
extend dual left turns all the way back if we can we're
trying and we'll find that out but if we can
close the access to the mall that's something that would
really help that intersection that would be
part of this intersection mckinney woodrow is another one
putting in um adding right turn lane
there um loop 288 and mckinney uh there are some turn lane
additions i think we're adding a
northbound right turn lane uh similar turn lane additions
at t's lee and 77 and lake we've shady
shores so that's that so this is the same table and any
questions discussion councilman so you
talked about the road impact fees as a way of paying for
this is there an amount of money already
that you are i mean are these prioritized um they were
listed one two three does that mean that
once the is that the priority of the projects or so uh they
were listed in that order but um
oops currently there is no uh we don't have an associated
priority for these um as far as when
the money comes in within the within each service areas
they are kind of prioritized and we have
about 100 and anywhere between 100 000 and 150 000 in some
of these service areas the areas that
see larger developments such as area b which is on the
south side it's collecting more money or some
of the other areas that are collecting more money so they
some of the areas are getting more money
and we can start using that towards putting in turn lanes
because i do know that in um our area
there's three new housing developments coming in correct so
okay and part of it is once the they
come in they don't immediately put in money by the time
they put in money and they're realized
it takes a while so it probably take a few at least a few
months to get to the money to be
deposited with the city and so will it be this committee
that gets an update on
these projects as they go and get funded okay thank you if
i may one of the things that we're
doing as staff is we're working with the city manager um
the capital improvements transportation
um wet water wastewater we're going through all of our cip
and scouring through those projects
making sure a where are we on a schedule knowing that some
projects are behind schedule we also
realize that some of our funding is getting eroded by
inflation over the last number of years so
we're going through those projects making sure that that
those things are appropriately prioritized
and those that are underfunded that we try to find the
appropriate funding whether it's to the
council of governments whether it's prioritizing old
projects that have been on the list that
that may need to be the funding may need to be shifted to
create capacity for those projects
that need to be need to be started and completed in the
near in the near term so we're working
through these these were just identified with the last few
weeks and so we're working through these
and when we're visiting with the city manager along with
the finance department to see what
monies are available to get these things across the finish
line it was a great list thank you
thank you okay thank you pre-dem next item is item f staff
reports number one is the dcta october
cat meeting madam chair on the next uh two or three here i
'll if there's any specific questions
to those otherwise i can move uh directly on the number
four understanding our time constraints
are there any questions about one two or three yes i i have
a comment about bike share
is that an um okay so on the bike share um i know that
staff recommended we don't do anything
but i would like to ask this committee to do something at
this point see dallas has three
of the companies and if you can imagine three different
companies and are with bikes everywhere
i mean i think that um i i know i've i've received some
complaints about the bikes being in right of
way and um the police as well and so um i i want to say i
am a fan of them i think they're great
for our city i guess i should have prefaced that um but i i
have also heard them referred to as
expensive litter um when they're not appropriately placed
and so um we just may need to address um
address some rules or uh timing of the bike placements
there's been one on a clear creek
for several weeks i mean you know that's a natural area and
that's just kind of not nice to look at
so right well and you know that's how a bike a dockless
bike share works you know they can
return the bike wherever they're they're ride in so
possibly somebody picked them up out of clear
creek um and when i talked to v bikes they said they do re
balance the bikes um two to three times
a day usually in the morning or in the evening to avoid
pedestrians but definitely um what
dallas is working towards is creating some sort of permit
process for them similar to what seattle
has been doing because seattle has this dockless bike share
as well and that was their recommendation
when i talked to them last week that they were working
towards a permit program that would
include a few rules about making sure people aren't parking
them on the sidewalks that each
business because they're private businesses that each of
them would have sort of flyers or handouts
that they would give to people who are using those bike
shares right yeah because we don't let food
trucks park on the sidewalks right yeah so get currently in
dallas so letting all three of them
operate um just right now while the city themselves works
on sort of some sort of permit process
i'm calling it sort of which is a gentleman's agreement
right now that this will be in the
works it would be my hope that we try to do something
similar follow through and we get ahead
of it instead of you know trying to to catch up right i don
't know if how if anybody else
feels on that but that's just how i feel
head nodding um so i guess the the direction that you're
going in is to have a formalized
process as opposed to well just some rules or permitting
some something okay yeah that's great
yeah because feedbacks they just showed up um but we met
with spin a couple weeks ago and they're
asking permission before they come right so i told them i
was meeting with you guys all today and
then i would have some more feedback for him so right and i
think the more we have the better but
i i would like to have some kind of structure in place so
they're just not everywhere like an
amount of bikes per i don't know if that's you can regulate
per company or i think seattle does okay
um have you spoken with the legal department about
potential ordinances or yes i spoke to our legal
department last week said there's no need for us to sign
any agreement that they themselves are
submitting to us but there is a code i don't remember if it
was texas code or our code here
that we are allowed to regulate anybody in the public right
of way so if there was a petty cab
or anything else we are allowed to regulate that and uh so
he recommended we probably at some point
would like to do a permit process that's what legal
recommended yes so do the bikes i haven't
looked that closely to see do they have a toll-free number
i don't know if they have a number there is a
number or you can when i asked the bikes they said anybody
can contact them through their social
media page so their twitter facebook okay but if they have
or there's a 65 year old person
you have to snapchat that is uh and sees a bicycle laying
out there and they want to call
the there is a number yes there is a phone number i don't
know if it's on the bike call them and say
well if it's not on the bike i'm not gonna right i haven't
looked that closely at the bikes either
i would think that that that's what we would want to
require uh that that if if somebody has a bike
that's that's in their yard or in their neighborhood and
they don't want it right there in their yard
right or or that they have an easy way without having to
navigate um the interweb
to to to get somebody to to when they're rebalancing
bicycles to right so maybe if i
can kind of synthesize what we're talking about i think
what we would like to see is some options
for regulation from our legal department maybe looking at
what we've done and what has been done
in other places um legal status report or work session you
're gonna send it up to the main council
yeah i think maybe let's have a work session item on it
yeah as far as legal options for
regulating the bikes okay uh go ahead and to maybe see if
there are other people that have
heard other concerns that they want to be considered in any
kind of a permitting process i think we're
gonna have more and more of the bike shares and just kind
of maybe everything shares so
maybe we have to just think about how sharing economy
affects our right away
yes sharing is caring yeah okay um any other questions on
numbers one two or three on item f
if not then i think mark you can go ahead to the new new
business matrix great i'm going to take
items five six eight uh and nine just hit those and then um
we'll come back and allow pre-tem and
todd estes to cover some of the other items okay you have
about 30 seconds i'm joking
five minutes is what you have item item five which is the h
ickory street uh streetscape
enhancements and sidewalks we'll uh planning to bring a
report back in um in november on that
with some costs etc uh item six which is the uh safe routes
to school we'll have a an update
in november on the ranking uh project of those projects uh
item eight which is the update on
the green ribbon program mediums on university drive we
included a uh staff report in in the
backup today i'll go ahead and remove that one off the list
if that's a that's appropriate at
this point in time likewise item number nine is now on the
list on your own system report which
is the northbound loop 288 eastbound uh right hand turn
lane so uh with that i'll turn it over to
pre-tem uh to begin discussion on item seven unless there's
uh any questions quick question
about the safe routes to school is that for the future
application or for current projects
i believe perhaps the question last time was about finding
projects that we could rank from the safe
routes to school plan that we have now um if that's what
you're looking for i can go through the
safe routes to school plan that we have none of them have
cost estimates the the plan didn't have
cost estimates so if you want specifically cost estimates
for any top three of our safe routes
to school or i can i can include all the safe routes to
school projects in our sidewalk list
if you think that would be a better solution maybe one way
to do it i'm just i don't know what the
best way to do it is but perhaps if we on our sidewalk list
we demarcate which ones are
side safe routes to school eligible i don't know if that's
something that we're already doing
yeah i can easily make a note somewhere that a star an a
sterisk this one is a safe routes to
school project i think that's probably what we would need
okay great okay pre-tem again okay
here we go number item number seven robinson road i like
maps it's really hard to talk to a paper
so uh we are talking about this gap closure or this
bottleneck issue when 2499 was
um constructed and part of the text up plans the typically
text out only goes a certain hundred
feet east and west on side streets for development so what
was happening is textile was supposed to
go all the way on the city of denton side limits all the
way to join to this area but on this side
they were going to leave it out halfway so this was the
bottom like we're talking about that text
up um initially did not include in their plans but in
talking to um their project manager for the
for 2499 project um and hearing decision complaints and
what city had to say and everyone
they have decided they're going to go back and redo it this
portion lies in the city of corinth
and it would have been really difficult for us to go back
and do anything sign an error local
agreement by the time it was done and said it would have
taken a long time so text dot has agreed to
connect uh reduce or get rid of this bottleneck and get
this four lane all the way to this location
and this is the project that i was talking about designing
later on in the future but
for now this issue has been eliminated there's no there
will not be any bottleneck once the 2499
opens uh item number 10 is that the one yes item number 10
and tada is going to help me a little
bit on that one i'll start with the uh pedestrian signals
we looked at a few different options for
here and this was a request from council member braves
about um getting a pedestrian signal at
mckinney and mayhill and um currently it has temporary pole
signals and um let me get to that
so if you look at it there are no sidewalks coming in on
either side there are no ramps
and these are temp poles and let me just throw this guy out
there good lord so this is the
signal we're talking about and see the sidewalk ends here
there are no ramps typically when we
put in pedestrian signals which have head push buttons and
pet heads which are those blinking
guys uh we typically recommend putting in the um ada
compliant ramps we don't want to install
something that is not ada compliant because we're
installing it new for this particular one we do
have an option we have the mayhill project coming in that's
going to tie it down to this as well as
the mckinney project that's under design or starting design
soon so long term in a few years
definitely this will be an upgrade intersection short term
i've looked at some of the cost if we
just put in the signal pet heads and put in push buttons no
ada ramps no ada compliant we're talking
about three four thousand dollar cost to install that and
that would be a temporary situation
mind me i mean it won't be ada compliant but it it is
something that would work for kids that
are actually walking to school today the other option is
putting in whole ada compliant ramps
and everything but that will be taken out as part of these
two big projects and redone so that cost
is about forty thousand dollars that will take three to
four thousand four months right and this was
temporary i wanted to make sure that there was something
because i know that um as the design
for mckinney we wanted to make sure that sidewalks may be
implemented first and so maybe that part can
be part of that um first stage as well and i know that may
hill is being widening so i'm not looking
for you know the ada ramps at the moment i just want to
make sure that the kids can push a button
and the cars will stop for them to cause because right now
they're weaving in and out of cars
because the cars don't you're not paying attention to the
kids correct correct no and that that option
is about three to four thousand dollars it probably take
about three to four weeks for
someone to go out there and put the pet heads in can we
fast track this because i was there yesterday
and there were kids all over the street like in between
cars it was it's insane okay yeah we we
can we can definitely fast track this do you have something
to add or i think we have it on answer
okay thank you
we are doing the very best we can to accelerate the
sidewalk from loop 288 over to the high school
we have uh the temporary i think my phone is catching that
sorry uh we're accelerating that construction so that we
will have it in place by the beginning
of next school year so yeah there's an interim step that
absolutely we can put in to help make
the intersection better putting the pet hens in but the
temp the sidewalk that we'll be putting
in will be more temporary but it will provide a pathway and
then what we're also working on
is working with the contractor that's working the mayhill
job accelerating the actual phasing for
the intersection at mayhill and mckinney so that you get a
fully signalized intersection the problem
we always run into is once we start putting anything in
that provides a i'm trying to think
of the best way to put it is it becomes an accessibility
issue any in other words what the
ada really tells us that act actually says if i provide
access for somebody i have to provide it
for everybody and once i start putting in any of these pet
heads or anything like that what i've
said is is this is our preferred route that you take i have
to provide that access for everybody
so whether you're able-bodied disabled i've got to be able
to provide that i run at risk if i put
it in without that of being under some kind of enforcement
or judgment against us there's
potential lawsuits come after us so we're looking for we
can put some measures in absolutely but
we're also trying to accelerate all those other pieces so
we don't leave ourselves at risk either
so i mean i'm sorry keely i'm gonna jump in real quick this
is not a long-term plan an ada
accessibility is a part of the final plans for this
intersection and for the entire area so
i mean i guess i'm curious as to the actual liability
exposure because by the time any case
would line through the project would be complete and the
remedy would have already been accomplished
we're not saying that you do one or the other we're just
trying to balance all the risks all
at the same time we're trying to get signals out some kind
of pedestrian crossing out right now
as fast as possible we're also looking for how do i
accelerate all these other elements because as
soon as i start putting those items out there they do
become a potential liability so the safety of
everybody that's out there absolutely i want to try to
protect anybody and everybody as fast as i
possibly can but we're we're also trying to figure out how
do i get all those elements in there that
also keep us from putting somebody else potentially at risk
as well okay council member bricks so
that's good if we put those cross it'll be a um a fast
track for the rest of the intersection
that'll make people right is that what you're saying that's
what we're trying to do is accelerate
that as fast as possible to catch up well my other option
would be that we get an officer out there
if you can't do anything else i believe we've already
talked to somebody that discussion's
ongoing right now how do we get that would be minimum what
we should do absolutely okay okay
and i'm not i'm failing at my first day as chair because we
're five minutes over and getting the
hook so i've been told to wrap it up be i think there is
one important thing did you hear what i
just said i did uh and i'm wrapping it up with this final
comment uh you will increase i think
that that everybody has a right to express themselves any
way they wish to but you will
increase your credibility if you find a better lanyard to
wear a better lanyard uh you know this
is university of north point of order pre-tem are you
complete two more items i do believe there is
equal opportunity for all to be employed right okay this is
why this right here quickly uh item
number 11 what's the status status doesn't look all that
great um this is a picture that was taken
today and if you look at that's the new plaque educational
flag that we installed saying you
know you shouldn't be within 30 feet of the stop sign and
they're right underneath it and this is
at normal and oak so we installed it about six locations we
've lost signage on two people have
taken it down i don't know where it is and the others they
're not following so greg normal and
miryetta they're right at the stop sign same same situation
so education apparently is not really
working great so we have to look at other means well is
there another means of like uh issuing a
citation i think so this is the next step is wherever we
have the signs is we start issuing
citation and they start noticing things yeah okay punish
them what's the next one wow all right the
last one was signal timing project and uh i was actually
going through uh some of the cog comments
um they have a call in place i think it goes in uh end date
is october 13th for submitting them
you know request for proposals for signal timing but we've
already we had submitted one back in
2013 um got the funding in 14th uh cog actually had a
consultant on board and they're working
with the consultant and we're upgrading timings for about
75 to 80 signals within the city and
uh that will go soon most likely spring to summer of next
year is when they're planning on
implementing most of these timings a lot of the issues
between 2015 and now had been construction
on 380 some of the rehab projects going on near loop 280 l
illian miller eagle all that taken into
consideration they were not able to collect data to move
forward so that's why it's taking a little
bit longer and we don't qualify for their the new funding
because we're already within we already
have a grant that was after 2013 so okay that's okay thank
you pre-tem any um i think we're on
item number two concluding items any all right hearing none
at 11 i'm sorry at 123 this meeting
is adjourned