Oct 10, 2017 Mobility Committee on 2017-10-10 11:30 AM

of the council mobility committee meeting to order. It is 11 37. A quorum is present and so the mobility committee of the city of Denton will convene in regular meeting today Tuesday October the 10th 11 35 and our council work session. One of our members is not here but should be coming later. The first item on the agenda is receive a nomination and elect a chair and I would like to just hold off on that item until we have our full committee here. So let's go to item B. Consider approval of the mobility committee meeting minutes of September the 19th. I move approval. Okay no corrections or suggestions. Okay I will second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Okay the the meetings minutes are approved. Item C is well let's go back to item A which is receive nominations and elect a chair for the Dent on city council mobility committee meeting. Are there any nominations? I'll nominate Sarah. I 'll nominate Dalton. Are you not do you not want to be chair? I can if you want. Well I mean if you don't want to be chair then we shouldn't nominate you but but since you represent us on the regional mobility committee it's probably more appropriate for you. I'll second myself. I can't that 's a point of order. Huh? Yeah I'll do it. Okay so there's a nomination. Are there any other nominations? You withdrew your nomination to me right? Yeah. Okay there are no other nominations. All those in favor of electing council member Garry as chair raise your right hand. It's unanimous. There you go. Oh we have to elect the vice chair. Okay is that what a chair does? Well she's the chair so I can't. No I'll recognize councilwoman Briggs. I would like to nominate council member Gregory for that since he has already served in that position. Okay I'll second. All in favor raise your right hand. Pass es unanimously. What agenda item were you on? We're now on C. Okay agenda item C. Receive a report and hold discussion regarding the implementation plan for sidewalks. Madam chair I'd like to have our bike pedestrian coordinator Julie Anderson present this item. Thank you. Okay good afternoon council members staff. Today we're going to talk about our sidewalk plan for implementing the 2014 bond election. So just as a brief update or brief history. In 2014 Denton voters had approved two million dollars in bond funds for miscellaneous sidewalks. So that was in November 2014. Money came available spring of that next year. And it was phased in the amounts that money would be available through different fiscal years. You can see first it was 250,000 two subsequent years of 700,000 and then just this fiscal year is the remaining 350,000 dollars. So there was an initial list presented from the engineering group last year in about February. There's a list about 27 projects and it was estimated about three million dollars for those projects. At that time they added down we added some downtown specific projects that I had asked to be looked into. Those projects do not actually have cost estimates only the top five did and those got funded through some other means. And then as the list has gone on it's been added to maybe there were public requests or staff recognized some other needs that got added to the list. And most of those that were added did not have cost estimates because we were already working with the original list. That was 27 and now it's expanded to about 50. So let's give a quick overview of some of the ones that have been completed in that time. So the first one was we call the exposition sidewalk. It's actually on Hickory. It's right by Exposition Street. This was completed in March of this year. It came in under budget so that's nice. Some savings there. This was originally our first top priority because at one point the Denton community market was going to move down to this location and that ended up not happening. But the sidewalk has been built as well as a really great connection for DCTA and the rail yard and the municipal core area down there. So that project's been completed. Next is the Belle Avenue sidewalk. This was completed in May of 2017. There's actually a slight mistake on if you look at the listing I gave you. It originally said this was 43,000. I believe I was looking at a different Belle Avenue project . So this actually came in at $136,000. So the original estimate was supposed to be 50,000. That original estimate did not include various things that the final project engineer actually included in it. So there was a bridge railing to cross the bridge right there right by the Civic Center. There was those parking lot bumpers at the Civic Center parking for the back end parking. Not back end parking but they put those bumpers in and striping and then also a retaining wall needed to be built right there because there was an elevation change and those were not included in the original cost estimate because a different engineer ended up designing that project at the end. So that was a really great connection to this senior center. There was a very distinct trail path foot path right there. Can I add? Yes pre-TAM. The main reason for the redesign and adding a bunch of elements was to save a bunch of trees right by the Civic Center parking lot. So that was a major reason. Correct. Councilmember Gregory. Thank you. How did we cover the difference in cost? It came out of the sidewalk fund. So $120,000 came from the bond election that $2 million and the remaining $20 I just believe came from an engineering somewhere. Actually there was $20,000 from facilities. We had included $20,000 because of the connection between the senior center and the Civic Center. Great. Thank you. A next one is the Paisley Street over here by Lee Elementary School. You can see there's a gap where there had been some new construction sidewalks all around it just missing this one little gap right here. This was just completed last month. That budget was estimated to be $28,000. It came in at $26,000. Sorry the photo was maybe washed out . Oh mine it is but it looks better up there. There's that connection there. Right here in the same area across the street just on Mac. So if I go back. So this is this one but the one I'm talking about next is now this section that's right here. If you can see where the pointer is. So this was completed last year as well. This had a little bit higher budget. There was some work that needed to be done with the elevation and people's driveways plus all four of the intersection ramps were brought up to current ADA standards. So if you go out there right now you'll see all the upgraded ramps. Crosswalks were recently striped as well. So that one was a little bit higher cost but this was a great connection to Lee Elementary School to build up those sidewalks there. We 've completed some other projects in that area as well as you go more east down Paisley connecting to Mockingbird. Oh I'm sorry Councilman McGrary. Having been principal at Lee for 15 years this is just great because for the first time now kids that live in the Singleton Oaks addition were the biggest number of kids to that school. Live were able to walk to school or ride a bike to school on sidewalks and avoid East McKinney Street and for years kids used to use East McKinney Street because Paisley didn't even go all the way through. Right. So this is great and what's nice is we have also used part of the easement for the DME transmission line to make a fairly wide sidewalk further east. Yes further east it's 10 feet wide. This one I've included because it was on the the list originally. When the list was developed this was noted as a nice gap we could complete down here on Robinson Road by Teasley but kind of in the interim of the list being created and now this site got developed. I think it's a daycare and so the sidewalk was built by the developer so that budget of 15,000 has been closed out and that money will just roll over to the other sidewalk projects. So at this point I wanted to put it in there because it was on the original list but we'll probably remove it at this point. This one is on loop 288. Staff has affectionately called it the Chipotle trail because it's right there by Chipotle. This as you can see there's a very noted footpath here as well and this project got completed just last month right around budget so this was a really great connection. This one is not actually part of the sidewalk bond election funds but I wanted to draw attention to it anyway. This was a sidewalk built on Hick ory Creek Road. I think it was completed early last month. Hickory Creek Road is scheduled to be widened. They wanted to put this sidewalk in prior to that project going under construction so this provides a really great connection for students walking to McNair Elementary School. So it's an extra wide it's about 10 feet, might be eight feet. It goes from Chaucer all the way to Montecito which is right where kids can cross the street then to get to McNair. Councilwoman Briggs . That was my question if the sidewalk continues all the way to the school. Yes so it goes all the way from Chaucer to Montecito and at Montecito there's a crossing I believe they have a crossing guard there. Okay. So those are the completed projects. We have two that are we're on the list that are ready to go to construction. So this one is Windsor Drive on the north side from Mesquite to that existing sidewalk right by the edge of Romans Pizza and that development right there. This was actually a request from a citizen who has visual impairments who walks from the North Lakes Rec Center to their home on the other side of Elm and Locust. So that's part of this was we also built that crossing in front of the North Lakes Rec Center and then if you once you're on the north side this will create a sidewalk all the way to Elm and Locust. So I see him walking like at least once a week so I really appreciate this. Yeah this one was sort of fast tracked because of that. He actually walks all the way past Woodrow Wilson. Yeah he goes very far on Winds or. Yeah and so this was kind of a gap of where he'd have to keep crossing the street all the time and so this would create a nice easy connection all the way on one side of the street. So this one the PO right is that right the PO has been submitted? It should be under construction right now. Okay. I was told this week is when they're going to be out there. Great. I mean somebody let him know just because he's still walking through this area. I don't have his contact info but do you? I'll contact him once it's all done. Okay great thanks Preetan. The next one that's just about ready is just right here across the street on McKinney. This picture the north is looking out to your right not the normal up. You just looked better on the screen this way. So this is because we want to keep our connection across the street. We have this great crosswalk we built. We want to be able to complete that sidewalk all the way through there to give people a nice connection if they want to park over here and make their way downtown for an event because this parking is you know available after five and on the weekends. Right now we're working on coordinating some utility relocations. DME has a big transformer right over there and also frontier communications. We'd ask them I believe to move one of their poles to put in a ramp at the corner of Oakland and Oak and we're sort of working through that. But we do anticipate it should be done by the end of the year. Very shortly. I thought this was going to be the quickest project. Yeah a few things popped up but so those two are ready to go and we'll get those ones done and completed out of those projects. So there's a lot of remaining projects on the list. So eight of them on the list are ready to go to design. So either they had an account set up and had some initial design work done but for various reasons staffing issues, staffing changes, everything was sort of put on hold when we reassessed our sidewalks. So these ones though have that account set up, had maybe a survey ordered and maybe a little bit of design but never a full-on design wasn't ready to go to construction. So we have eight of those that are ready to go. Our plan is to bundle those ones eight together and send them out to a consultant to be designed and possibly even constructed. We're still working on the construction side but they will get designed by an outside firm. The engineering I believe is putting out an RFP to have an engineering on retainer I guess is the right term. But there are still a bunch of remaining projects on the list, remaining and new projects that citizens have requested. As you might remember at last month's meeting we had a citizen here who requested to have that sidewalk on Amherst for students to walk to Newton Raiser Elementary School. So what we would like to do with those projects is want to bring them all together and rank them so that we're ranking these projects based on a set of parameters that we can then show people this is ranked 50 as above this one's 30. So we want to take all those projects in together, rank them and then move forward with the highest ranked projects until the entire two million is expended. So as you know we've completed some projects so there's not two million right now left in the fund. There's a little over a million in the fund right now but we want to work towards completing those projects in that money with the highest ranked projects. Julie I think Mark has something you'd like to say. Julie would you mind for the uh might want to remind the committee some of the prioritization such as you know the ADA issues, proximity to event center schools. Yeah so initially when staff was going through that initial 27 list on the projects on the list and they noted ones that had close elementary schools what were ADA issues, what were high pedestrian areas, also which ones had requests like repeated requests to staff and which ones could you actually see a footpath where you know people are using it. So that was the guiding principle about the list and how they move forward but we'd like to just make it a little bit more objective with this ranking system. So I'm looking at the large matrix that was on our desk with the there are five on here that have been ranked and I wanted to just briefly touch on the north side of Mingo from Riddell Street to Bell Avenue. Yes. So I know that TWU has a master plan that they're working on for the golf course and I'm wondering if we have coordinated with them to what extent the sidewalk would have mobility enhancements for their expanded campus and I guess also if I could get input from my fellow council members. Thank you for bringing that up because I wanted to talk about that. Since there's been a four-story apartment complex built on Riddell between Mingo and University Drive and apparently the Texas Williams University has secured that entire apartment complex for its students. I'm assuming that because on move-in day they had signs pointed to various dorms on campus and to that apartment complex and since school has started I since I drive down Mingo a lot I have seen students walking along M ingo between the the road and the golf course. On the south side of Mingo. Actually on the north side of Mingo. Oh yeah that's the north side. Yeah. The side that's next to the golf course. The side that's next to the golf course and my thought is with that many students living there and with no parking really available on campus for them I'm sure that a lot of students would be wanting to either walk or ride their bikes. Right. So have people on staff been in touch with the administration at TWU regarding the possibility of relocating that fits back a little bit. I know that there's some issues along there because of some of the drainage but driving on that road daytime and night time there are too many times when people especially dealing with the the drainage going under the road get up on the roadway you're wearing dark clothes and you don't see them until you're on them and somebody's going to get hurt. So has anybody talked to TWU are we doing anything to possibly press forward with that. I haven't spoken with them recently but I do believe we had a meeting with them at one point to discuss that. Councilman Redd, it was at a very high level we do need to re-engage in some detailed conversations with them. We're also looking at some conversations with them along Roodale Street where they've got they've got on the northbound side of Roodale there's a bus stop there and there's not much room there and we've noticed where we've got citizens or riders that are sitting literally on the curb kind of out into the right of way so we do have multiple issues that we'd like to see if we could work with TWU in terms of enhancing pedestrian and alternative transportation. Well I would I would encourage you all to do so soon and to report back to us when you're here. Very well. Councilman comment on that as well. I drive that street regularly and they're not just students but a lot of people walking and riding along that using that as a road to get to downtown area as well so I was glad to see that on the list and I hope that stays close to priority. Right so Mingo is definitely a key connection we had bike counts out on Mingo two years ago and there was a high amount of people biking on that road for well it's very inh ospitable to people biking and walking and it's probably one of the most requested streets I get from people to do something for bike and pedestrian safety so it's it's definitely something on our on our minds. One note though if you if you look at I think it was exhibit two, exhibit one, that the Mingo road is number 28 and it's the estimated cost was 625,000 at that point it was more than the two million so at this point it was unfunded but I wanted to go ahead and give that project ranking because if it was ranked really high you know it would hopefully move up and we would do that one sooner based on how it ranked. So we'll go into the ranking now we wanted to create a ranking system where we could you know say this was you know 50 and this one was 30 we're going to do this one first that we could show to the public this is why we wanted to do this project first. So pre-time actually worked on this ranking system researched what other cities had been doing created this first there was the pedestrian potential pedestrian potential potential index signing points based on the likelihood of pedestrian travel on that road so elementary schools middle schools get a certain number of points on a transit route gets some certain points if there 's a noted footpath it gets so many points that actually comes to a total of 30-35 points and then there's also what we call the deficiency index so how critically is this project needed so what's the posted speed limit or have there been pedestrian crashes on that roadway is there an existing sidewalk how many lanes or a road are there that comes to a total of 51 points so right now the total is at 81 pre-time and I were discussing maybe it'd be best to make it so the number was 100 that way people it's easy more relatable if you can say this was 99 out of 100 as opposed to this was 50 out of 80 so that's something we'd like to look into. So as I said I didn't want to rank all the projects on the list because I wanted to be able to bring the ranking criteria to this group first see if there were any suggestions and then if we wanted to refine the ranking and then at that point we'd go ahead and rank all the rest of those projects so I ranked just a sampling of them Amher st that was the one Dr. Brighill last week had not last month had requested so I went ahead to rank that one Alice was also an email we'd gotten from some people that Alice needed to have a sidewalk for students going to Calhoun and also to my mind is blanked Denton High in that area and then North side of Mingo Nottingham is also on on the list and then Northside of McKinney from Bell Place to Railroad down here which has a noted footpath so you can see that Alice ranked really high 54 out of 81 and you can see how those those ranked at the time when we put this together pedestrian crashes I had not received them yet Julie just one moment council member okay go for it so a question about I'm curious just because I'd like to see behind the curtain how a thank you how a the Alice Street got a slightly higher ranking than Amherst how do we how do we right so Alice actually because Alice had it was close to a high school and an elementary school and a middle school so it got some extra points there I mean it wasn't much higher actually I noticed there was an error I gave six when the highest number is actually a four so Alice is actually at 52 so it's only one higher than the Amherst one and that's because it was also close to a high school so those ones were basically neck and neck basically they're safe routes to school projects and what I was saying before pedestrian crashes I had asked for those from the police department I had not received that back from them yet when I initially put this together and it was posted but I did receive those back late on Friday and only one one street on this list currently had a pedestrian crash and that was on mingo road so a pedestrian crash gives 10 points so mingo would actually jump up to being 52 sorry it is just odd to say that a pedestrian crash gets 10 points right that did come out possibly wrong but if there's a pedestrian crash sure we want to make sure that's a high priority council member bricks so I do know speaking of that in the area of Calhoun and didn't hide there have been a couple of accidents on bikes and pedestrians so are any of the the projects in that area where the accidents happened are they on this list or is that a sidewalk issue or is that well a different issue is a bike crash or pedestrian crash but one of each yeah bike crash wouldn't necessarily make it on this list because we don't sidewalks aren't built for people who are riding their bikes sidewalks were built for pedestrians but I do remember there being the crash on is it Fulton not Fulton Crescent thank you the crash was on Crescent not on Alice and Alice is on the list but we could possibly broaden where the pedestrian crash occurs is it near the area if we wanted to include that in the list so no right now the pedestrian crash that occurred on Cres cent is not included in this right here work but pre-tem correct me if I'm wrong I understand that engineering or traffic operations is working on another solution to address that scenario or the issue over on Crescent and DHS correct can you go to a map so that it's easier to explain yeah just an aerial quick one yeah so last week I went out there met the principal of Denton High as well as Denton ISD environmental safety manager he's the person that takes care of safety around all the campuses he's our main contact for the ISD and got to talk to them as far as issues what are the concerns they see how it can be remedied and what we noticed while we were out on the site we noticed that there's a northern parking lot north of Crescent keep on going this way yeah right that one so the north parking lot it is close to 150 spaces there and it's primarily students are parking there and if you look at the entire furniture it's on a curve with no fencing no kind of restriction for students so they cross every which way everywhere across Crescent people that are traveling on Crescent when they come around the curve they don't have a way to know if a student is going to jump in front of them what's going to happen there is a school zone currently between right it starts right in the first house near Fulton going westbound and then eastbound in the middle of the baseball field so that particular area is 20 miles an hour when the school is in session in the morning time as well as afternoon time so it is it is already implemented but what is missing from there was a flashing sign to actually pull attention from motorists saying you know it is a 20-mile zone and they should be aware of that so we did find a few people doing 30 close to 30 25 to 30 and that would be definitely helpful so as far as the city's concerned we're thinking of adding those flashers at those locations the other thing that was brought up is a pedestrian crossing signage that has those flashing signs with lights that are across from the street on McKinney a couple of those one at the corner where it really turns and then the other one on the other side will make this area much more better as far as you know drawing attention from motorists for pedestrians that might be on the street the other thing then ISD is is going to take care of that they're going to put a fence across that entire frontage so that kids are only allowed to get out where the sidewalk kind of meets on either side so that would be a better option to channelize them on either side so those are the three things that we looked at. Thank you, councilman. Thank you. I would encourage the fence or something and I'm assuming that anytime that there's an analysis of a crash a pedestrian vehicle accident that we look really closely because I know that that the city took quite a bit of of criticism about two years ago or within the last two years for some high school students that were crossing loop 288 close to the intersection of loop 288 and McKinney street. The problem was had they gone about 50 yards further to the north they would have had a controlled crosswalk. It was there it was available for them but they didn't use it. Their adolescents and they feeling vulnerable to being hurt and they ran across the street in the dark and one of them was was killed. So I think that you know when you think about them when you think about teenagers putting fences that that they would be less likely to try to climb over on their way to school and making them walk down to a safer place to cross would probably add a lot to the safety feature because I don't think that just painting a line across the street is going to do enough to encourage them to use that. Yeah and that's also we discussed about the crosswalk and even the principal as well as the safety manager there felt that crosswalk would kind of create an unsafe situation just because kids are not going to look up anymore if there's a cross walk they'll just focus and expect the cars to stop as if thinking that you know they're invincible they're that age that they think this car is going to stop so we kind of eliminated the crosswalk . Councilmember Briggs. So on the sidewalk looking at this picture on Crescent I see there's the sidewalk here on the school and there's not one on the opposite. How far does the does the sidewalk from the school go all the way to Fulton and then all the way to Malone? Correct I think I'm just curious of what we're talking about sidewalks. This did not build a sidewalk here. So there's not a complete one from okay no okay the school built the sidewalk and this church did not. Okay that's interesting thank you and just one more question on the that list that we were talking about the itemized list you mentioned most of those are scored high because of the distance to school or schools. Does that qualify them for safe routes to school funding? Yes if safe routes to school funding was available we would apply for it but again that's federal funding we don't have safe routes to school funding at the city. Right well I know you have to apply for it but yes definitely it's another way to make sure that we have funding. Okay yes so this would be the ranking we'd go with the PPI and the DI but then as we were discussing projects we'd also be able to have taken some other considerations such as availability of right-of-way cost and coordination with other projects. So perhaps a project that ranked fairly high but was going to maybe be part of a larger project a good example is down on Londonderry we have that on our list but Londonderry is having some work done around there so we might wait on that project to coordinate with that one instead. Cost could be a very prohibitive factor we only have two million well less than two million now to spend on sidewalks so it's a decision we'd have to make if this was a really expensive project but we got a lot of bang for that buck maybe we'd still try to do it. So we would use the ranking as our initial scoring which ones are highest to work on and then internal staff we'd meet together and decide is this project feasible for different different options. I know as I was going through this ranking ranking these these sample projects I did notice there were some things I'd probably like to change such as the the operating speed you only get one point if it's 30 to 34 miles per hour but most of our streets in Denton are 30 miles an hour and you get the most points if it's over 50 from a primary arterial so I maybe like to rework that one to give a little more points because our streets are a lot of them are just our neighborhood streets that need sidewalks and they're only at 30 miles an hour so does anybody else have any discussion points about things you'd like to possibly see in the ranking or anything like that I mean we'll try to move forward with it. I would have a question about the points that are allotted for elementary schools and high schools so do the universities have points allotted as well like proximity to a university? No they do not on this list it's just high school elementary and then you know employment local interest which you could consider a university local interest but perhaps we should add a distinct column for close to a university. I would say so because that's where you get a lot of pedestrians so I would think that that score is at least similar to what an undergrad school or I guess children's school would score. Right okay we can definitely work that in. So Councilman Briggs sorry and that's right and just on the sidewalks and we're speaking about distance to schools I do know that buses do not run within three miles of a school and so if a an area is within three miles of a school does it get higher priority for sidewalks as compared to those that yeah things closest to the school quarter mile then you get points for a half a mile to three quarter of a mile okay those get the highest points if it's closest to the school. Okay thank you. So I don't know if you had a question. Great so we just want to review and approve this ranking system we'll move forward we'll make some of those small changes and move forward with that. We'll want to rank the remaining projects that are on this list and take a new request so our my plan is to we would like to create a website a web page on the website that has the sidewalks listed and where you can request a new site. We want to be able to take a new request from citizens have a place for them to request that we'll go ahead and rank that put it in with the rest of the ranking and every quarter or if it needs to be more frequently if we have a lot of requests staff will meet together to reassess those rankings and maybe we'll move projects based on that. Like I said yeah we'll reassess that list quarterly and then we'll continue until all the funds get expended and hopefully we'll be able to build a lot of sidewalks. So this is just for our our new sidewalks building with our two million dollars. We are working on creating an ADA transition plan that would hopefully assess existing sidewalks that need to get fixed or maintained repaired and eventually we'd like to have a listing and a ranking of all of our sidewalk gaps in the city. As you know this list that we have right now is not even all the the gaps that we have in the city so we'd like to work towards being much more proactive in assessing our sidewalk list and how we can move forward with that. Well that sounds great to me. I think having the public input and having it be in a place that people can access is a great idea. I'll just go back to the mingo issue again. I really encourage you guys to work with the administration at TWU because I think that road is scheduled to be expanded at some point in the distant future. I thought it might be on a list somewhere. Maybe not. I don't know. Well I'll work with engineering and see what we can. I thought I thought I heard something about you know distant future mingo expansion but it could have just been like wishful thinking or something. So I would just hope that we have a really comprehensive look at that particular area. Madam Chair there had been some discussion with with TWU administration when we were working on the Pres cott property up at 380 with DCTA in terms of how that line would work, how that might have to push out and mingo and if there was an interest by TWU. So we need to re-engage the. Okay well thank you. All right thank you Julie. Oh wait I'm sorry Councilman Briggs. I just wanted to follow up and say thank you for bringing this discussion to us. I'm really glad that we're having it and the most complaints we get as council members are for streets and sidewalks and so I'm glad to see that we're having this discussion and making it priority. Thank you. Thank you. Okay thanks Julie. Our next item is item D. Receive a report hold a discussion and provide direction regarding Texas Department of Transportation on system projects in the Denton area to include the 35 express project. Which one? The mobility committee. Do you have to go on? Oh I can do that. John you're presenting. You're getting fancy John. Also the the scrolling doesn't work on this mouse. Yeah yeah or you can like do that. Don't give me options. But the button doesn't work I just got with that. I still try to use it though. Here it is. Okay yeah like how small do you want it? Okay there you go. Okay so I'll just run through the report real quick and you guys can stop me. If you need that bigger I can have Julie come back up. So here we go. So the first project we're going to go over is the 2181 north south project. This report was submitted prior to the October 5th. We actually had the meeting the pre-construction meeting with MCM on this project. Out of that pre-construction meeting several things from an action item came out. One is that MCM is not going to be allowed to start the project until they have their baseline schedule submitted and an office site established. Now MCM has decided to co-locate their office with their batch plant. So it's typically the batch plant that is the difficult item to acquire the location of and I'm wondering to kind of get this a little bigger to show you kind of where they are looking to do it and it's going to require the city to you know walk through the process of their permitting if it's even allowed. So here's the 2499. I know that says 2499 but that's whatever reason that's wrong. 2499 this location right here is an open area. You need to stand by the microphone. Sorry. This area right in here where the star is wherever that is is the location they're looking at. This is 2499. The only other location they can find in the area that's close is down here by Park Ridge across from Lake Dallas High School. The reason this is probably less than positive for them to use is because as you know when Geyer and they've also asked the ISD to use their site consistent with their Belfour guys but the school district said there's not enough room. So if they use the Park Ridge site, does that push? Ah it's like a laser. So if they use the Park Ridge site in this area what happens is these pointers always make me look like I'm drinking a lot of coffee. They have to truck their materials along 2181 to construct a project and as you know in this area where Geyer High School is, twice a day basically in the morning and the afternoon, there's no traffic that's going to get through here and the other problem is they don't want to have a lot of traffic moving through this area during that time frame. So if they can access this site as a batch plant in their office then they 'll be able to have direct access to the entire project corridor. Now as a side note they're also got a contract with Corinth to, man that is shaky, to extend Lake Sharon to 2499 and that's a project that they've got going on concurrent and so then once they get that graded out they 'll be able to come to 2499 off that graded area off of Lake Sharon. So they're requesting the city consider a permit for batch plant in this area. I know that that's a sensitive topic and so I think at the last meeting we had Chad was there from engineering was the I think was Chad and then Tim Fisher was there for a bit but then he had to go so they were going to get back with somebody with the staff level to find out what that permitting process or even if it is possible for a batch plant at that location and the reason that's a critical path item again it's where they create and make their concrete on site so it's they'll bring in the sand, the gravel, the Portland and they create the concrete for the project on site. Council Member Briggs and so that's the permit they're looking for before they can get this project going? Correct it's it's a it'll be like a permit through the city 's I guess building process because it's a you know batch plants are not a pleasant thing to be next to. Right. And I think the city has requirements for noise abatement, curfew hours, etc. that you can't apply to the construction of the project because it's a state project but you can apply it to the permit for the batch plant because it's yours to either give or not give. So is the batch plant temporary or it's permanent? It's temporary for the length of the project and so they're putting their offices there as well and the contract says they can't start the project until they have their offices established and for whatever reason they've decided to co-locate and so MCM is going to be turning in there their baseline schedule on October 19th and once that occurs, TXDOT will agree to it because it's going to be at the 650-day length on the contract. The contract time starts but they won't allow them to go to construction until they have this office site set up which requires a permit from the city and for the batch plant. So it's kind of all intertwined and I think the appropriate staff have been communicated. I thought I saw Chad's communicating with somebody at the meeting the other day so I'm just kind of throwing that out there for whoever's responsible for that. The other thing we need on this project is the city of Dent on has a water line that MCM is going to be constructing first as a part of this project and there was some confusion. I think Tim had to leave for an earlier meeting on there. MCM was under the impression that they had to get the water line in and open by May of next year but what it is is that I think the city was saying there's a certain few months June, July, August where you can't do the cutover unless it's specific times because it's a high use period for your water line. So somebody from the city utilities is going to provide that date because that matters because if it's May they want to do a different schedule than if it's November and November is the normal process by which they would do it and as long as the city is okay with not being those three months in the summer then it helps the schedule with MCM to be able to do it in November as opposed to May. Okay so that's 2181. I know I've covered a lot of stuff on that but contractor's on contract. He's getting ready to go but he can't start till he gets some of his paperwork done. And I have a question for Pre-Tim. Do you know where that batch permit is at? So they I don't even think they've submitted it because we weren't even sure. This was my mistake. I thought that the city had an ordinance precluding batch plants in the city but Chad checked on it and said no they don't have an ordinance precluding them but they do have an ordinance that requires certain mitigation so there we're going to go check on that. So they haven't submitted an application because they don't even know that they can. They're waiting to find out if it's even possible. However with all with all the staff changes that we've had in the planning department we make sure that all the appropriate contacts are out there so that that is submitted to the right individual. Okay. Okay John I don't want to rush you or anything but we only have the room for about 50-45 more minutes. So I take that long I need to be hitting the head. We have two more items after you that's the only reason I'm actually rushing you. Okay so forward drive the long short of it is if you look there it says right away completes December 2017. Utility relocations is October but ready to let is November. That doesn't seem to make sense except that the only piece of right away we have left on this project to acquire is right there where the railroad track crosses 377. There 's a billboard on the railroad right away in the city of Denton. The city of Denton does have an ordinance that says billboards can't be replaced. Clear channels already been compensated for their for their loss and we're going to include the value of the loss of revenue with the UP in their exhibit A. So although we still have one more parcel to acquire it doesn't affect the project because it's on the right away for the UP. The relocations will be completed in October and so the project is going to be ready to let by November. The only thing left after that is to get the exhibit A from the Union Pacific Railroad and we just received a very lengthy email from Sherry Boyd who is the key person working on this at Lochner coordinating with the folks at UP and it appears that we have some synergy as to getting that exhibit A done probably before the end of the year's out which means that if we know that we can start to move the project forward for a let date sometime around the first of the year. Okay 2499 section five I'll scroll down for that. So this project is supposed to be completed in December primarily the work is being done up here in the north. In this area in the northern section where it ties into 35 and then the area where it ties into the state school those are the primary areas to work in and they need to get completed. And they're saying that they'll have that done by December also as part of this project we have the city has submitted 60 percent plans to text that for the signal at Robinson Road which is right there which allows the text dot to tell wherever where to put the base foundations for the poles and to order the materials and so by the time we get the plans done we should have the the material we need for the signal unless pre-10 wants to change anything I just said. Yeah I want to add to it we have been in touch with the project manager for text on the on that particular project Mark Wiley and we have confirmed locations of the foundation so he's going to go ahead and start pouring the foundations. 60 percent plan they barely had any comments so we're almost close to submitting the final plans to the district office Dallas district and hopefully by December we have something in place before it opens. So the contract's kind of going slower than it was supposed to because of some work this has to be done in the north but that's to our advantage because we want to get the signal up and running before they open the road so it looks like the schedule's working on in our direction on that one. So this is the I-35E Mayhill 2499 improvement we've already got a project manager's name is Travis Campbell we do know that the firm that's going to be doing the Mayhill bridge which is going to be the ultimate bridge and its width underneath 35 for Mayhill not the ultimate width for 35 because we're not doing we're not touching 35 will be LTRA so they've got LTRA they're in the process of contracting with them Texthout will do all the advanced planning and the engineering it's already environmentally cleared and we're staying inside existing right away because we're widening the underneath the freeway to widen the bridge for Mayhill to get six lanes or better underneath it so no right away is going to be required it's already environmentally cleared there will be some utility adjustments I'm certain if they're out there and this is a project that will probably be funded out of that 10-year funding that Texthout allocated to 35E from the county line with Dallas county up to 380 so we just got to get it done. And then this is the look 288 Brinker Mayhill project basically the critical I'm just going to jump to the Texth out construction report we're working on completing the the getting totally done with the water line during this next month we're going to be working with OHL to get what's called a recovery schedule because right now they are saying February 2019 and the contract was originally August of 18 and there were some delays at the front of the project but we feel that there is an ability for OHL if they so choose to do to recover a lot of that time frame so we're going to require them to provide us a recovery schedule to see what they got to do to get back on track with this project and then it'll be up to because the you know the city put in two million bucks through the developer the county put in about 18-19 million of it the rest was uh state funds and so if the group primarily the county and the state decide that whatever it takes to expedite that recovery schedule if it requires additional funding then we'll look at adding additional funding in the project at that time but the intent is to get it back on on track for the August 2018 completion. 35 North this is a segment from 380 uh to the candle line again this is a project that TechStat is taking the lead on they have HDR doing the work and they should be completed with the schematic by what did I say up here the schematic by the end of this year that's right we're probably going to have the public hearing on this project in the summer of next year with it being environmentally cleared after that everything else is a guess after the environmental clearance an assumption but that that July public hearing in December 18 uh environmental clearance is a target date that the state wants to hit and then the in town project you all know because you all drive it all the time that it's essentially open and they're basically as the report shows they're just doing punch list items and tdlr uh inspections to make sure it's ADA compliant. Briefly John. In interest of time there was a question on landscaping associated with the in town section there's a there's a memo on the back of your of your report to indicate that we 're going to start moving forward with the trees later this fall fall next summer by working forward with a green ribbon project to do the landscaping so we can take questions later on that just wanted to point that out as part of this project. Great thank you Mark. Okay so this is a new one to your list uh this is the 380 loop 288 intersection improvement and essentially we're going to do it in two phases one we're going to do an interim improvement and then as we come in with 380 from 288 out we'll do a more permanent improvement and what the interim improvement and so I was going to ask to go to an aerial but if we got don't have a lot of time then I'll just stay here essentially what the interim improvement is going to do is they're going to they're going to take if you notice up here there's a u-turn lane with this big island that sticks out and then but you 'll see that the nose of the nose is going to be a little bit more than that. For the turn lane north to 288 off of University it stops about right there dang it I'm really good with the firearm but so uh it stops about there so what we're talking about doing is chopping off part of the the island here and then the left turn lane will be a left the u-turn will be a u-turn and a left with the existing left turn lane first lane being a through left and then I'll give you a through and then they'll add pavement back to wherever the drainage ditch is on the outside so that they all make a free right turn and all that is being done probably with asphalt just to get it in the project right now and it'll stay inside takes that right away that's why they're doing moving it to the inside as opposed to the outside but when they come back and we do the ultimate project which is another project on the list they 'll come back and look at this and do it in more permanent structures with concrete and whatnot. Council Member Gregory. I am not an engineer our engineers all know that and tell themselves that every time that I start to talk. I would imagine that there is maybe not one car out of a hundred that goes straight through and straight north on that why would they they would just stay on the the loop the problem seems to be that that that lane that that gives that allows you to go straight or to turn left isn't quite wide enough especially when a big 18 wheeler is trying to turn right and and it doesn't provide enough room and as a result my neighbors you know get their cars side swiped by the cars and then they call me and they fuss at me as if I designed that but it seems like that the solution is to make the right turn lane put a little more asphalt on the right hand side maybe four or five feet to give those vehicles wanting to go right to room. Have you been out there and looked at it have you all been out there? So I thought I just said that. Oh you did? But I'll repeat what you were saying. The whole intent is to move everything to the inside so that you can not just have a little bit of a right turn lane but a full length right turn lane. So they're going to fix it? They're pushing everything to the inside rather than the outside. So you're basically adding another lane to the inside so you can give that whole last lane to be the free right turn lane. I don't care which side it gets. Well the way the reason we're doing it this way is this is all tech stock right away. Right. We don't have to bother any adjacent property owners we don't have to go through any this is just a maintenance deal and Tina Massey we were at the kickoff meeting for 21 81 we were talking about this and you know she said yeah the only thing is is that right in that island I'm not supposed to walk away from the mic but right in that island right there is a controller it looks like for your signal so we either need to like try to miss that or the city may have to help us by moving that a little bit . I'll add to this I agree with you that people do not go through on that center lane so I don't know how realistic this is but the way that I've seen that road back up it is people going to the developments on 380 east they're turning right and there's not sufficient space but also not sufficient lanes so I don't know if if it's even possible to do two right turns or do it through right. We'll work with the city and the operations guys at TXDOT to do the optimal amount of lane balancing but we're just saying you've got a left turn you got a u-turn out there that's minimally used that's taken up a lot of space that we can take that and add additional lane there which allows us to give us the most optimal you know segregation of the of the turning movements. Okay. This stays all within TXDOT right away so we're on this we should see hopefully if we get all this stuff worked out soon this should be something we could do fairly quickly. Okay so 380 east this is a project where TXDOT's doing the green design in-house and there says that they'll have a 30 percent submittal on the green section in the spring of '18. We're still working they're hiring two consultants I checked today to see who they were they haven't given me the answer yet but they're working with two consultants to do the PS&E on 380 in the blue section. There are 89 parcels to acquire in the blue and 25 parcels to acquire in the green and they're looking at having a May 2021 let date for this project. Luke 288 west so this is a project where we are about ready to submit the 30 percent schematic. We have some conformity issues we have to deal with which may delay the time frame up here of the environmental clearance. It's already been stuck in there the reason we have an EA out of December 2020 when we've got the 30 plans done and we're expecting to have the schematic approved by next year is because right now this project is not in the mobility plan in the proper year so we've got to update the mobility plan to move 288 into a environmental clearance date and then we'll move the environmental date to like 2018-2019 so it's just a paper chase. I know it didn't make any sense what I just said but it's all regulatory stuff that we have to follow it doesn't make any sense to me but we're closer than the schedule would allow is all I'm saying. All right 1515 is affirmed we got LTRA the county's got that we have had comments both from TechStack and responses back from LTRA and we anticipate having John sorry Council man Briggs. So when you said mobility plan do you mean whose mobility plan? Boom the uh Regents the mobility 2040. So right now they're updating the mobility 2040 to 2045 and so we're trying to get the loop 288 and 35w a couple of things in Denton county that are in the wrong year corrected in this update but when I'm I was saying the mobility plan I mean the Regents mobility 2040. Just double checking because we have one too. Yes and folks out there that are listening they're probably as usual confused when I speak. So again LTRA we expect to have them on contract I'm going to say by the end of the month and I'll just have to beat my staff to make sure it happens and then 1830 this is the uh this is the project where they're doing the shoulder and the bridge replacement and the TechStack report is here and it looks like they're just continuing to work on the uh the uh embankments and the you know flex base and all that so I haven't had any complaints on this project I have had complaints from the from folks that are not interested in the state's desire to widen it to four lanes but I'll have the chance at the public meetings to have a comment on it. I think that's all I have. Hope I got another under the window. Does anybody have questions for John Polster? It's very nerve-wracking. Okay thank you John. He did great . Okay we are on item E now. Receiver report and hold a discussion regarding mobility improvements. Committee members uh Pre-Tam is going to give a short presentation but just to give you a heads up at your uh at your August 26th retreat council retreat you had requested uh gave staff direction to look at some short-term improvements that would enhance the mobility of our community and so these are some of the things that staff has been looking at and so we're vetting those projects and hope to bring these to you to give you a just inform you and then bring it to the full council at a future work session. All right given the time um I have a few slides I can go through um but let's start with the actual list and this is a list of intersections or and or street segments and and or studies different things that are identified here and I'll talk a little bit about what service areas means and why we are going this route and we've arranged it this way but we've we're looking at about 22 things here if you look down the list. Some of them are design projects which include widening of streets some of them are short-term adding turn lanes right turn lane left turn lane just to improve capacity and get some immediate relief. Some of these projects are around hundred thousand hundred and fifty thousand dollar projects which are quick fixes and when we started looking at all these and looking at the amounts we started thinking of how we need to fund it and that's where these service areas came in. We started looking at roadway impact fee and these are the different service areas A B C D E five service areas and we started categorizing what's needed in each of these service areas immediately other than what are already is going on through the textile projects of widening all these larger highways within the city. So under the first area if you look at the area A there's nothing out there barely any development going on but we do have under mobility plan we do have some you know lines there those are primary and secondary highways they've looked at. We are looking at a big picture in the mobility plan for the whole entire city but we didn't really focus on specifically this area so we're planning on doing is conducting a circulation study that looks at how would you join some of these arterials and secondaries you know how would you put in collectors what kind of access points and start better defining so when developers come in they don't rule or they don't tell us what they're going to put in or how they're going to connect but we already have a plan to go and say this is how you can address it and this is how we can better develop our infrastructure and circulation. So that 's the first service area and circulation study is something that we immediately need it's about 40 000 dollars that we'll need there. The second area is area B it's the area to the south it's developing pretty fast and if you look at the first improvement it's the country club road and Ryan everyone knows there are about three intersections on country club the hickory creek is number two and then the top most which is Hobson lane right there under that B. Hobson lane at country club is going to get modified it's going to improve as part of 377 widening project which is soon going under construction I think John mentioned some something about it . Council member Briggs just can you remind me the impact fees they're collected they have to be used within that certain area is that correct so that's what we're talking about here dividing them up that means those fees were collected and they need to be spent in that area. Correct and there's a specific amount within the area collected and that only goes to improvement stores that's why we are going based on the areas of service so we've identified each of these improvements within service areas. All right and then if you look at the improvements they're about 100 150 000 dollars just to turn lanes on hickory creek and ryan road it will definitely improve circulation and get the left turners out of the lane and you know make a better functioning intersection. The other two the number three and four are design projects these are sections that are missing we need to design them first widening Robinson road between 2181 and just east of it where the development starts it's it's this area that's marked here this area and so between 2499 and 2181 is where we don't have a widened Robinson road so we need to design it first and then we'll move forward with the construction part and later on but the second one is also designed the next one is hickory creek road we have a small section that connects to 2499 that's not designed it's not widened widening is not designed at this point council member cragg ie the funding for Robinson road and one for hickory creek would it would that be in a bond election and not to to happen or has it already been included in a previous one election the funding has not been included in the okay no and you don't anticipate getting enough funding from the road impact fees to do a project of that nature no so that's why we're more focused on getting the design completed so when we go for bond election we have a better idea of what's needed we have better estimates and everything is we're lined we 're lining ourselves to get the money all right thank you um the next the last one is the uh signal ization at hickory creek and 2499 at some point once it's widened even when once it's open we might run into some higher volumes just because there's a lot of neighborhoods that access this part of h ickory creek they can directly connect to 2499 which is going to be a pretty much a regional connector north and south once it opens so we might have to look at this in a near future and that 's why that was identified there are other improvements along 2181 part of the uh text art project 377 part of text art project so a bunch of the near-term improvements or short-term improvements will be addressed with these two major projects but the we're also looking at some other intersection improvements that are needed next service areas area c um the first one is carolyn sh erman there's a lot of people that go northbound on carolyn want to go towards sherman i think the intersection is right here it's right barely in the area but majority of the traffic comes in and wants to take sherman to go north and that's a movement that needs to be fixed and we have a plan that we think might work but better signal and better capacity for left and right turn movements and that would take about 425 000 dollars to fix that intersection the next one is locust elm and 77 this is actually a design and analysis the intersection of where locust elm and 77 meet it's a it's a kind of a weird intersection where one way's elm begins a one way and then locust kind of ends in one way we're looking at a better design we will analyze it and design it so that traffic flows smoothly then windsor i'm sorry hercules and locust is another section this part of hercules doesn't exist but as part of recent development projects in that area it's going to be built in so the intersection of locust and hercules is definitely we need to add turn lanes left turns both directions do you have a council member uh regarding hercules and loc ust well over a year ago a resident that lives in the neighborhood uh where the western part of hercules is came to us um what's it called north point uh just talking about the fact that there is only one way in and out and we were told that that street was going to be connected and my understanding is there's no agreement yet on getting that done can can you give us some kind of timeline or or and and does the city own the right-of-way for that for that uh street or what's the story there the story is um we are currently talking to the developer that has come up with a submitted a plan for the south side of hercules but just west of locust so the whole area north of mckinney i can pull in a second side note i really love the pretend just use bing to get to google maps and it went away i guess it's going to give us some trouble so uh we're talking about this parcel this parcel just came in there in the uh planning process we've requested a traffic analysis and they're working through that but the developer also has interest in developing this property and there is another parcel here so they're talking about coming in as a first phase and then second and third and as part of these two this entire roadway will be designed and built by single entity of course the participation will be figured out as far as you know how much developer pays in depending on their roadway impact fees and what kind of credits they get is part of that but uh developer has agreed to design and construct this link would that be considered a perimeter street it is a perimeter street and from what i remember in our discussions perimeter streets are the developer could get credit for those in as far as the road impact fee uh that's what is being talked about okay so i'm jumping again sorry so um what is going to happen is the development is going to connect into this street as well as doors so both these are going to go into this whole new subdivision i think there are about 180 houses in this first lot and then further more houses down here and a connection here so they are currently working on the traffic impact studies and once we get that but this intersection if you look at it doesn't have any turn lanes going left turn so that needs to be improved uh we've already identified we'll work if the traffic study comes back and requires that we'll work with the developer to put that in if it doesn't then we definitely need to identify funds on our end too and then one more on that with connecting that when hercules gets connected that's going to put an awful lot more uh residential traffic going out on north locust street which is a state facility right correct and pollsters left what uh is is that in the queue for any kind of uh addressing uh the the width in order to handle the the future traffic because there's a development going on north of the uh loop that will probably impact that also correct so part of their tia is going to look at intersection here because people are going to cut through and there will be a signal ized intersection and negotiate has been currently constructed it will look at this connection this connection and then this whole interchange so uh that traffic impact study will tell us how much traffic is being diverted and what kind of impacts are you going to look at and once the development goes in but the development that's that's north of loop 288 and directly west of the the gonzalez school has is is currently going in and right now they're all going off onto um are they going to connect into 2164 this is the parcel that is being developed they're currently uh connecting off of stewart there's no direct connection on this side okay i'm not aware of future phases but at this point i know that this is the only parcel that was developed and it's in two phases they just completed the first phase steward doesn't go all the way through okay yes uh on a on a side note yes taut just reminded me that we are talking to um cog about this whole area and a connection or even uh talking about outer loop cog was involved in the outer loop study and alternatives and one of the alternatives was to bring in um down this path down 428 and then used part of 288 and connect to 35 that would be part of their outer loop for the entire dfw region and they're looking at options there are different alignments that would connect to 35 but they're looking we're also looking at this alternative as an outer loop so okay i'm sorry i'm getting too depth so going back to the presentation we're on air let me just wrap it up in service area d we have uh sherwin and loop 28 8 one of the things there is the lanes are misaligned they're not definitely aligned with each other they the through lanes left turn lanes right turn lanes don't align what we are going to do is add some asphalt to widen it a little bit and make sure that they align long and steward it comes in as a weird angle i think long goes south a little bit and connects us to work we need to change that angle because we're getting complaints about the side distance so that's one of the quick fixes we need to realign it university noddingham and old north i think council member brings is very aware of those left turn missings and they're shared and all that so we've identified that we need to fix those in the short term so as the funding becomes available you know start addressing these with the design and construction and then loop 288 and university i think uh texas is already working on that part so we'll probably drop this one eventually next one is the last area is area e and this is where most of the city is completely developed and um we're looking at major intersections that require upgrade but we identify what's the interim quick fixes so for example bell and mckinney we're talking about adding a northbound right turn lane uh along bell that would help us uh address some of it our main need is north and south left turn lanes but that's going to take a whole lot more money not 120k loop 288 and colorado is extending the left turn from colorado onto the loop if you're coming from the side of the mall golden triangle mall and then you're hitting the loop that left turn extends all the way into the through lanes so quickly within 200 000 we can extend dual left turns all the way back if we can we're trying and we'll find that out but if we can close the access to the mall that's something that would really help that intersection that would be part of this intersection mckinney woodrow is another one putting in um adding right turn lane there um loop 288 and mckinney uh there are some turn lane additions i think we're adding a northbound right turn lane uh similar turn lane additions at t's lee and 77 and lake we've shady shores so that's that so this is the same table and any questions discussion councilman so you talked about the road impact fees as a way of paying for this is there an amount of money already that you are i mean are these prioritized um they were listed one two three does that mean that once the is that the priority of the projects or so uh they were listed in that order but um oops currently there is no uh we don't have an associated priority for these um as far as when the money comes in within the within each service areas they are kind of prioritized and we have about 100 and anywhere between 100 000 and 150 000 in some of these service areas the areas that see larger developments such as area b which is on the south side it's collecting more money or some of the other areas that are collecting more money so they some of the areas are getting more money and we can start using that towards putting in turn lanes because i do know that in um our area there's three new housing developments coming in correct so okay and part of it is once the they come in they don't immediately put in money by the time they put in money and they're realized it takes a while so it probably take a few at least a few months to get to the money to be deposited with the city and so will it be this committee that gets an update on these projects as they go and get funded okay thank you if i may one of the things that we're doing as staff is we're working with the city manager um the capital improvements transportation um wet water wastewater we're going through all of our cip and scouring through those projects making sure a where are we on a schedule knowing that some projects are behind schedule we also realize that some of our funding is getting eroded by inflation over the last number of years so we're going through those projects making sure that that those things are appropriately prioritized and those that are underfunded that we try to find the appropriate funding whether it's to the council of governments whether it's prioritizing old projects that have been on the list that that may need to be the funding may need to be shifted to create capacity for those projects that need to be need to be started and completed in the near in the near term so we're working through these these were just identified with the last few weeks and so we're working through these and when we're visiting with the city manager along with the finance department to see what monies are available to get these things across the finish line it was a great list thank you thank you okay thank you pre-dem next item is item f staff reports number one is the dcta october cat meeting madam chair on the next uh two or three here i 'll if there's any specific questions to those otherwise i can move uh directly on the number four understanding our time constraints are there any questions about one two or three yes i i have a comment about bike share is that an um okay so on the bike share um i know that staff recommended we don't do anything but i would like to ask this committee to do something at this point see dallas has three of the companies and if you can imagine three different companies and are with bikes everywhere i mean i think that um i i know i've i've received some complaints about the bikes being in right of way and um the police as well and so um i i want to say i am a fan of them i think they're great for our city i guess i should have prefaced that um but i i have also heard them referred to as expensive litter um when they're not appropriately placed and so um we just may need to address um address some rules or uh timing of the bike placements there's been one on a clear creek for several weeks i mean you know that's a natural area and that's just kind of not nice to look at so right well and you know that's how a bike a dockless bike share works you know they can return the bike wherever they're they're ride in so possibly somebody picked them up out of clear creek um and when i talked to v bikes they said they do re balance the bikes um two to three times a day usually in the morning or in the evening to avoid pedestrians but definitely um what dallas is working towards is creating some sort of permit process for them similar to what seattle has been doing because seattle has this dockless bike share as well and that was their recommendation when i talked to them last week that they were working towards a permit program that would include a few rules about making sure people aren't parking them on the sidewalks that each business because they're private businesses that each of them would have sort of flyers or handouts that they would give to people who are using those bike shares right yeah because we don't let food trucks park on the sidewalks right yeah so get currently in dallas so letting all three of them operate um just right now while the city themselves works on sort of some sort of permit process i'm calling it sort of which is a gentleman's agreement right now that this will be in the works it would be my hope that we try to do something similar follow through and we get ahead of it instead of you know trying to to catch up right i don 't know if how if anybody else feels on that but that's just how i feel head nodding um so i guess the the direction that you're going in is to have a formalized process as opposed to well just some rules or permitting some something okay yeah that's great yeah because feedbacks they just showed up um but we met with spin a couple weeks ago and they're asking permission before they come right so i told them i was meeting with you guys all today and then i would have some more feedback for him so right and i think the more we have the better but i i would like to have some kind of structure in place so they're just not everywhere like an amount of bikes per i don't know if that's you can regulate per company or i think seattle does okay um have you spoken with the legal department about potential ordinances or yes i spoke to our legal department last week said there's no need for us to sign any agreement that they themselves are submitting to us but there is a code i don't remember if it was texas code or our code here that we are allowed to regulate anybody in the public right of way so if there was a petty cab or anything else we are allowed to regulate that and uh so he recommended we probably at some point would like to do a permit process that's what legal recommended yes so do the bikes i haven't looked that closely to see do they have a toll-free number i don't know if they have a number there is a number or you can when i asked the bikes they said anybody can contact them through their social media page so their twitter facebook okay but if they have or there's a 65 year old person you have to snapchat that is uh and sees a bicycle laying out there and they want to call the there is a number yes there is a phone number i don't know if it's on the bike call them and say well if it's not on the bike i'm not gonna right i haven't looked that closely at the bikes either i would think that that that's what we would want to require uh that that if if somebody has a bike that's that's in their yard or in their neighborhood and they don't want it right there in their yard right or or that they have an easy way without having to navigate um the interweb to to to get somebody to to when they're rebalancing bicycles to right so maybe if i can kind of synthesize what we're talking about i think what we would like to see is some options for regulation from our legal department maybe looking at what we've done and what has been done in other places um legal status report or work session you 're gonna send it up to the main council yeah i think maybe let's have a work session item on it yeah as far as legal options for regulating the bikes okay uh go ahead and to maybe see if there are other people that have heard other concerns that they want to be considered in any kind of a permitting process i think we're gonna have more and more of the bike shares and just kind of maybe everything shares so maybe we have to just think about how sharing economy affects our right away yes sharing is caring yeah okay um any other questions on numbers one two or three on item f if not then i think mark you can go ahead to the new new business matrix great i'm going to take items five six eight uh and nine just hit those and then um we'll come back and allow pre-tem and todd estes to cover some of the other items okay you have about 30 seconds i'm joking five minutes is what you have item item five which is the h ickory street uh streetscape enhancements and sidewalks we'll uh planning to bring a report back in um in november on that with some costs etc uh item six which is the uh safe routes to school we'll have a an update in november on the ranking uh project of those projects uh item eight which is the update on the green ribbon program mediums on university drive we included a uh staff report in in the backup today i'll go ahead and remove that one off the list if that's a that's appropriate at this point in time likewise item number nine is now on the list on your own system report which is the northbound loop 288 eastbound uh right hand turn lane so uh with that i'll turn it over to pre-tem uh to begin discussion on item seven unless there's uh any questions quick question about the safe routes to school is that for the future application or for current projects i believe perhaps the question last time was about finding projects that we could rank from the safe routes to school plan that we have now um if that's what you're looking for i can go through the safe routes to school plan that we have none of them have cost estimates the the plan didn't have cost estimates so if you want specifically cost estimates for any top three of our safe routes to school or i can i can include all the safe routes to school projects in our sidewalk list if you think that would be a better solution maybe one way to do it i'm just i don't know what the best way to do it is but perhaps if we on our sidewalk list we demarcate which ones are side safe routes to school eligible i don't know if that's something that we're already doing yeah i can easily make a note somewhere that a star an a sterisk this one is a safe routes to school project i think that's probably what we would need okay great okay pre-tem again okay here we go number item number seven robinson road i like maps it's really hard to talk to a paper so uh we are talking about this gap closure or this bottleneck issue when 2499 was um constructed and part of the text up plans the typically text out only goes a certain hundred feet east and west on side streets for development so what was happening is textile was supposed to go all the way on the city of denton side limits all the way to join to this area but on this side they were going to leave it out halfway so this was the bottom like we're talking about that text up um initially did not include in their plans but in talking to um their project manager for the for 2499 project um and hearing decision complaints and what city had to say and everyone they have decided they're going to go back and redo it this portion lies in the city of corinth and it would have been really difficult for us to go back and do anything sign an error local agreement by the time it was done and said it would have taken a long time so text dot has agreed to connect uh reduce or get rid of this bottleneck and get this four lane all the way to this location and this is the project that i was talking about designing later on in the future but for now this issue has been eliminated there's no there will not be any bottleneck once the 2499 opens uh item number 10 is that the one yes item number 10 and tada is going to help me a little bit on that one i'll start with the uh pedestrian signals we looked at a few different options for here and this was a request from council member braves about um getting a pedestrian signal at mckinney and mayhill and um currently it has temporary pole signals and um let me get to that so if you look at it there are no sidewalks coming in on either side there are no ramps and these are temp poles and let me just throw this guy out there good lord so this is the signal we're talking about and see the sidewalk ends here there are no ramps typically when we put in pedestrian signals which have head push buttons and pet heads which are those blinking guys uh we typically recommend putting in the um ada compliant ramps we don't want to install something that is not ada compliant because we're installing it new for this particular one we do have an option we have the mayhill project coming in that's going to tie it down to this as well as the mckinney project that's under design or starting design soon so long term in a few years definitely this will be an upgrade intersection short term i've looked at some of the cost if we just put in the signal pet heads and put in push buttons no ada ramps no ada compliant we're talking about three four thousand dollar cost to install that and that would be a temporary situation mind me i mean it won't be ada compliant but it it is something that would work for kids that are actually walking to school today the other option is putting in whole ada compliant ramps and everything but that will be taken out as part of these two big projects and redone so that cost is about forty thousand dollars that will take three to four thousand four months right and this was temporary i wanted to make sure that there was something because i know that um as the design for mckinney we wanted to make sure that sidewalks may be implemented first and so maybe that part can be part of that um first stage as well and i know that may hill is being widening so i'm not looking for you know the ada ramps at the moment i just want to make sure that the kids can push a button and the cars will stop for them to cause because right now they're weaving in and out of cars because the cars don't you're not paying attention to the kids correct correct no and that that option is about three to four thousand dollars it probably take about three to four weeks for someone to go out there and put the pet heads in can we fast track this because i was there yesterday and there were kids all over the street like in between cars it was it's insane okay yeah we we can we can definitely fast track this do you have something to add or i think we have it on answer okay thank you we are doing the very best we can to accelerate the sidewalk from loop 288 over to the high school we have uh the temporary i think my phone is catching that sorry uh we're accelerating that construction so that we will have it in place by the beginning of next school year so yeah there's an interim step that absolutely we can put in to help make the intersection better putting the pet hens in but the temp the sidewalk that we'll be putting in will be more temporary but it will provide a pathway and then what we're also working on is working with the contractor that's working the mayhill job accelerating the actual phasing for the intersection at mayhill and mckinney so that you get a fully signalized intersection the problem we always run into is once we start putting anything in that provides a i'm trying to think of the best way to put it is it becomes an accessibility issue any in other words what the ada really tells us that act actually says if i provide access for somebody i have to provide it for everybody and once i start putting in any of these pet heads or anything like that what i've said is is this is our preferred route that you take i have to provide that access for everybody so whether you're able-bodied disabled i've got to be able to provide that i run at risk if i put it in without that of being under some kind of enforcement or judgment against us there's potential lawsuits come after us so we're looking for we can put some measures in absolutely but we're also trying to accelerate all those other pieces so we don't leave ourselves at risk either so i mean i'm sorry keely i'm gonna jump in real quick this is not a long-term plan an ada accessibility is a part of the final plans for this intersection and for the entire area so i mean i guess i'm curious as to the actual liability exposure because by the time any case would line through the project would be complete and the remedy would have already been accomplished we're not saying that you do one or the other we're just trying to balance all the risks all at the same time we're trying to get signals out some kind of pedestrian crossing out right now as fast as possible we're also looking for how do i accelerate all these other elements because as soon as i start putting those items out there they do become a potential liability so the safety of everybody that's out there absolutely i want to try to protect anybody and everybody as fast as i possibly can but we're we're also trying to figure out how do i get all those elements in there that also keep us from putting somebody else potentially at risk as well okay council member bricks so that's good if we put those cross it'll be a um a fast track for the rest of the intersection that'll make people right is that what you're saying that's what we're trying to do is accelerate that as fast as possible to catch up well my other option would be that we get an officer out there if you can't do anything else i believe we've already talked to somebody that discussion's ongoing right now how do we get that would be minimum what we should do absolutely okay okay and i'm not i'm failing at my first day as chair because we 're five minutes over and getting the hook so i've been told to wrap it up be i think there is one important thing did you hear what i just said i did uh and i'm wrapping it up with this final comment uh you will increase i think that that everybody has a right to express themselves any way they wish to but you will increase your credibility if you find a better lanyard to wear a better lanyard uh you know this is university of north point of order pre-tem are you complete two more items i do believe there is equal opportunity for all to be employed right okay this is why this right here quickly uh item number 11 what's the status status doesn't look all that great um this is a picture that was taken today and if you look at that's the new plaque educational flag that we installed saying you know you shouldn't be within 30 feet of the stop sign and they're right underneath it and this is at normal and oak so we installed it about six locations we 've lost signage on two people have taken it down i don't know where it is and the others they 're not following so greg normal and miryetta they're right at the stop sign same same situation so education apparently is not really working great so we have to look at other means well is there another means of like uh issuing a citation i think so this is the next step is wherever we have the signs is we start issuing citation and they start noticing things yeah okay punish them what's the next one wow all right the last one was signal timing project and uh i was actually going through uh some of the cog comments um they have a call in place i think it goes in uh end date is october 13th for submitting them you know request for proposals for signal timing but we've already we had submitted one back in 2013 um got the funding in 14th uh cog actually had a consultant on board and they're working with the consultant and we're upgrading timings for about 75 to 80 signals within the city and uh that will go soon most likely spring to summer of next year is when they're planning on implementing most of these timings a lot of the issues between 2015 and now had been construction on 380 some of the rehab projects going on near loop 280 l illian miller eagle all that taken into consideration they were not able to collect data to move forward so that's why it's taking a little bit longer and we don't qualify for their the new funding because we're already within we already have a grant that was after 2013 so okay that's okay thank you pre-tem any um i think we're on item number two concluding items any all right hearing none at 11 i'm sorry at 123 this meeting is adjourned