Mobility Committee meeting to order. We do have a quorum
present. We're meeting here at the City Hall
conference room
Council conference room on McKinney Street. Our first order
of business is to consider approval of the Mobility
Committee
Council meeting minutes from June 13th. I
Will move approval. There's a motion to approve second. All
those in favor say aye. Aye opposed
That passes as presented. Item B is receive a report hold a
discussion regarding the federal safe
Safe routes to schools program and the City of Denton
Safe routes to schools program plan
Who's going to be doing this? Mr. Chair, I'd like to have
Julie Anderson our bike and pedestrian coordinator
facilitate this discussion. Thank you
Okay, good morning council members
We're just going to give you a quick overview of what a
safe routes to school program is
Apologize the slides are a lot of words, but it's really no
pictures to go along with it. So
First of all, I just want you to know that what a safe
routes to school program is is dedicated federal funding
for projects that increase
biking or walking ability to schools
These are funded through the various transportation bills
through Congress. So the very first one was in 2005
That was what was called the safety loo transportation plan
safe accountable flexible efficient transportation equity
act and legacy for users
That authorized six hundred and twelve million over five
years
It was then reauthorized for two additional years at 183
million a year
This created the safe routes to school program and it was a
standalone program for funding
So it was not competing against other projects for active
transportation for funding
When that bill ran out a new one was authorized in 2012
called map 21
That was moving ahead for progress in the 21st century.
That was approximately 8 million each year for two years
It didn't make some changes
It combined safe roads to school with other biking and
trail projects to create a transportation alternatives
program
Which we refer to as tap so it was competing against biking
and biking and recreational trails projects at that time
When that bill ran out Congress authorized our current
transportation funding bill, which is the fast act fixing
America's
surface transportation
So against our current bill is adopted in 2015
It has 835 million for 2016 and 2017 then 850 million for
2018 through 2020
Some various sort of small changes safe rest of school was
essentially stayed the same way it was
But it did was renamed the transportation alternatives set
aside
It was still competing against other active transportation
projects and recreational trails projects
But they let it up to the states to decide if they wanted
to have one call for projects
So all three would be competing for funds or they could
separate out if they wanted to
So regarding that you said for states to decide so that
835 million then the 850 million that's allocated to states
on some type of a formula basis
Yeah, it's a formula basis based on population
Okay, and then it's administered in states or in Texas by
what agency or agencies?
Um, so it's overseen federally by the Federal Highway
Administration
Hear us locally. It's by our local MPO
Which is the North Central Central Texas Council of Govern
ments an MPO is
Metropolitan Planning Organization, that's where dedicate
that's where federal funds get
Siphoned through to different municipalities. Okay. Yes, ma
'am
How many cities are competing for them
I don't know the exact number of cities, but I know for our
area cog has I think 23 counties
So we're competing against everybody in the North Central
Texas region. I think that's 16 counties 16. Thank you 16
counties. Thank you
They separate out between like rural and urban so like
people in Dallas are competing against little tiny rural
communities
So cog
Did have a call for projects in late 2016 for the
transportation alternative set-aside funding
23 million was allocated for our region and these funds
cover the fiscal year 16 to 19
And cog decided they did want to separate separate out
their call for projects so that safe routes to school would
not be competing against other
active transportation projects
We submitted applications one for active transportation to
safe routes to school projects and we were awarded
We will have reimbursement funding for those projects that
we were selected
for
Can you can you talk about how many other cities are?
Projects were nominated
Yes, I wish I had brought that list
But Denton we submitted our two safe routes to school and
we ranked one and two are both our projects for those that
got funded
Fort Worth had a several that they were funded for as well
might have been
20 projects maybe I'm sorry. I cannot remember I did not
print that out
But we ranked one and two for our two projects we submitted
Thanks
Great if people are interested in that list, it's in the
backup materials
If they do Google search and agendas safe routes to school,
it'll come up when you did the presentation to the full
council
That's right. It was included as a backup item at a
previous meeting
So our safe routes to school plan we do have one here in
Denton
it was was worked on back in 2010 with city staff and
Denton ISD staff so the plan does highlight every school in
Denton ISD and it has potential projects
Here's just a snippet of what one of them looks like. This
is Alice Street
connecting students to
Calhoun middle school right here
Just one thing to note this plan was never adopted and
funding was never allocated for safe routes to school
projects
So to my knowledge the city has never
Gone after federal safe routes to school funding
cities can also
Fund their own safe routes to school through you know,
whatever local programs they have
So did I hear you say that that we developed a citywide
plan for safe routes to schools and it was never adopted
That is correct
Let's make a note
Well, I couldn't figure out why I asked some people I asked
around
Bill night at Denton ISD who worked on it. He wasn't quite
sure the staff who worked on it
The city engineer traffic engineer are no longer at the
city. And so I didn't have anybody to really reference
It may be appropriate for oh, did you want to say something
? Yeah a quick note as far as I know
I think the issue was that
Denton ISD board did not approve it. It hung around with
their board for a while. I don't know why and
The draft was never converted into a final document and
since that didn't happen we didn't bring it to to council
and get it
Through the process, but I don't know what happened there
Is there any notion as to why did we get any feedback as to
why they didn't adopt it?
where they happy with some parts that we don't know but we
can push that item and
Make sure that this goes through. Yes, I do know we have a
joint meeting with the district every year
And so this may be something we can put on our agenda to
discuss with them
And I can say that when we were working on our applications
for the TA set aside
DSD was involved in our discussions. They provided a letter
of support and Bill Nye at DSD did work with us. So
They were very helpful in getting these the funding for
these two safe routes to school projects. We're straying
off topic
I think that we need to maybe on the future agenda put safe
routes to school plan on
mobility committee meeting agenda
here if there are any proposed
revisions or updates to it and
And then possibly have this committee make a recommendation
to council
for approval and
Yes at this point. I think we need to revisit it's been a
few years
It's been seven years since I was created there are a lot
of sidewalks and and connections that were pretty in since
as part of our city projects and
That's why all of these
Connections need to be re looked at and revised so there
needs to be some direction and do you serve
On the committee that that discusses the agenda for the
council
School board meeting. Yes. Okay, so you might
Yeah, and I was gonna mention also the posting says receive
a report and hold a discussion regarding the federal safe
routes to school
Program and the city of Denton SRTS plan. So I think we
could provide direction on the plan itself
Well, yeah, given that I think he's right
2010 plan seven years old it probably needs revision before
it's
It's passed
By the whole group, but but we certainly need to get some
updates on it
And and see what we ought to be doing
And I guess Bill Knight is the contact person with he has
been so far
He's been the good contact anything else on that before we
let her go on
No, I would just I would just like for it to be updated as
well. Yeah. Okay, right. This is the end of my presentation
This is all we have of our safe routes to school plan
Said it was never adopted and it was never allocated
funding
So currently when people request sidewalks that are
included in our safe routes to school plan
We added to our existing list from our
2014 bond election sidewalk list and we're working on
Reprioritizing that list to include hopefully more safe
routes to school projects based on a ranking system
Yes, ma'am
So when the original 2010 plan was created was there any
idea of funding?
requirements for certain parts of the plan I
Do not think so. Okay, there are actually there are no
numbers whatsoever in here
Yeah, the funding was not identified and so
Can you talk just a little bit about?
how we were able to leverage funding without having a
dedicated sidewalk fund because
As you explain it to me in order to receive these federal
80% matching grants
We actually have to have
earmarked funds for
Sidewalks well not you just have to have the funds for the
project that you've identified
So we submitted to TA set aside projects and we have to
have that money
To pay for those projects doesn't have to be specifically
sidewalk, but you have to have it for this project
So we were able to leverage 20% for these projects because
of our 2014 bond election fund
There was two there's two million in the 2014 bond for mis
cellaneous sidewalks. And so we had already
Identified a project that we included in our application
that we had set aside funding for out of that two million
So we're using that as our leverage
So just to kind of go back a little bit had we not had the
bond money allocated already
We would have had to go through the regular budget process
which
You know, we know what the cycle is of that. This
application was due in December
Sorry, so that would have had to go through a different
type of process
Which is why I'm just gonna put this out there
I think having a dedicated fund for sidewalk projects is
really the right way to go for something like this
And mr. Nelson, do we have it seems to me that we've had in
past in the budget a certain amount of money for
sidewalks in terms of just
repairs and
Maybe additions as part of the street department's
normal O&M
Budget they they program some
maintenance funding in there as they go back through and do
a reconstruction of the street, so it's kind of geared
towards
sidewalks gutters and
curves whenever they do a reconstruction project or how
they get some one-off complaints on maintenance of sidewalk
s, but
back to councilmember Baguerre's comments having a
dedicated fund similar or funding source similar to your
bike fund
What we greatly enhance our opportunities to be able to
leverage when these opportunities come up?
And if there were citizens who felt like that that in their
neighborhood they had
Sidewalks that were needed in order to get
Children and their parents safely from their neighborhood
to a major street to their school. How would they?
Get get that on the radar screen in order to be considered
as we've revised this 2010
Yeah, so they can email me as the bike pen coordinator. I
will take those requests. We have a ranking system
We're working on that. We hope to be able to bring back to
this group
Pre-chams worked on it, and I've been looking at over where
we can rank all of our upcoming sidewalk projects
And then reassess that list
Every quarter possibly to see if we need to perhaps do a
different project first so that it would include projects
that were safe
Routes to school they would probably bring higher
Are we going to need
Some type of dedicated funding to update this 2010 safe
routes to schools plan or can we use?
some of the $50,000 that's been designated for
updating the the bike and pedestrian plan to to
update this I
Think we probably could use some of that 50,000 from the
bike plan update. I don't believe it'll be a difficult
update
staff time really
assessing sidewalks that have been built since then
Please get back to us in our next meeting on that if that
would be sufficient or if we need to maybe direct
Request to council to add some additional funding to update
this okay
And with the request for a dedicated sidewalk fund come
from this committee
It could come from this committee or it could come from you
know individual guy
I suspected this committee would be glad to to endorse that
right yeah
Yes, well the the projects that were approved recently, I
guess a few months back the two
Will you come back with us on updates?
Yes, right now. We're just working waiting for
It has to go through the tip and the step and the
transportation improvement plan for the state and that
should be in November
And then we'll sign contracts with textile after that so we
're looking at maybe February or March, okay?
Thank you, and would you since this is the first mobility
committee meeting that's being?
Livestreamed and going to be recorded and available to
citizens to review
Would you remind us the two plans that did get approved and
where they are what the plan is yeah?
So we submitted for a ginnings elementary and Lee
elementary so ginnings include sidewalks on Stewart Road
both sides of the street
That leads right up to ginnings from Windsor and for Lee
elementary. It's including sidewalks on
believe paisley and Mulkey to get students from the
neighborhood west of
What's that road that?
Audra thank you Audra to get students across Audra on Pais
ley to Lee elementary
Okay
All right anything else in on safe routes to schools
Well then thank you very much
Item C is receive a report hold the discussion and provide
direction regarding the Texas Department of Transportation
35 Express project in the establishment of noise walls as a
part of the project
Mr.. Nelson
Thank You councilmember
This is a this is a item of particular interest
I know as the project is winding down 35 Express project
through our community is winding down
There's been some requests for noise walls, and how
How those are justified?
What's the process I've included in the backup?
as well as in a previous
memo to council
informal staff report on how on how those are established
essentially it goes through a
Fixed
Environmental process that the state has to follow
And deciding and determining one if a sound wall should be
placed and then is it financially feasible to place said?
Sound wall if it's justified in our community
There's a series of about five sound walls and and when I
talk about a series of them in some cases
They're overlapping
Sound walls from one particular location to another along
the corridor
So that it is in between the frontage road and the main
lanes, and then as the exit comes through
It'll have to overlap so there is only one sound wall
which is in the report that you have noise wall five which
is near the
Mergers and Performing Arts Center there along the north
bound lanes of 35 near University of North, Texas
Just north of North Texas Boulevard
the other the remaining sound walls the other four sound
walls are south of that point and
Essentially because the project was financially constrained
the right-of-way or the required
Additional land for the phase two project
Was so expensive text dot chose not to acquire the right-of
-way through the corridor
Although all the right-of-way that is and some locations
again near North Texas Boulevard
They did have to purchase the entire
right-of-way in other parts of the
corridor through Denton that right-of-way was not acquired
and therefore
Textod elected not to fund at this point in time
The sound walls again due to the financial constraints
associated with may recall the project was roughly about a
four point
four billion dollar project
in 2012 2013 dollars
They moved forward with the one point four they at one
point four billion phase one project and they're
Starting the process now as they get to the completion of
phase one to look for funding
to initiate phase two
so with that I've got John pollster who
worked with text odd as they
Developed and designed this particular project through Dent
on County who can speak to some
Detail if you wish on the establishment of the noise walls
the environmental process
And and maybe the process forward if you have any questions
, I can attempt to answer those over mr.
Polster so
If you would before we get into that we I have and I
suppose our other council members here have
received some
emails from folks saying that
previous city attorney city engineer had had promised
sound walls
along I 35
south
East I don't know the roads curving right there of North
Texas Boulevard
basically to
Mitigate the sound in the neighborhood
Kindle from those streets
south of I 35 in that area is that are those the sound
walls that we're talking about that that were
delayed because of
funding issues in phase one, I think what you're
referencing. Yes, sir is the noise walls generally for the
Dina neighborhood and then on the other so that would be
maybe the south south or west side of the interstate in
that location from essentially
Kindle North Texas Boulevard south
Just south of McCormick Street
And then on the other side roughly
Just south of McCormick Street up to Collier Street on the
other side, but those are those those two particular sound
walls
Have been in question in terms of any promises made by a
prior
City employee. I don't know that I've not seen any
record of that and
In addition to that, I don't know
Where where the authority would be?
In terms of funding that from a city from a city initiative
because it is a text up project text up funded
and so I
Don't you know, I think it was made clear from the very
beginning. We've got some
Had some communication with text on project manager on this
that
That no those those sound walls were never in phase one
Okay
so we have we have
Email traffic between certain folks in those neighborhoods
and the text up project manager where before the project
was constructed
They were informed that the sound walls would not be in
that area part of phase one and
There were some back-and-forth
Reference and litigation and whatnot and they have a right
to do that during the environmental process
You have 180 days once the project is environmentally clear
to file suit if you don't agree with the
recommendations of the Federal Highway Administration
But one I want to point out is these sound walls were based
on 2035 mobility numbers
So that's what those noises noise walls were justified on
traffic that's going to be there in the future
So two things occurred that three one we didn't acquire the
right away because we couldn't afford it to the state
doesn't have to put in the sound walls until
the
Mobility year or when they construct the project whichever
comes first in this case 2035 or when they build phase two
the third thing is is the
Walls were between the frontage roads and the main lanes
We the state used to put the sound walls
along the right-of-way line
But the businesses started complaining that nobody knew
they were there because they're on the frontage road side
All right, and the walls right between them and their
people driving down the road
so the state moved the walls to the
To between the main lanes and the frontage road because the
sound walls are only mitigating the main lanes
noise not the frontage roads
so we the
Determination was made that those walls were not warranted
at this time because we're not moving the main lanes any
closer
to the residents and
The project was like Mark said about 4.4 billion dollars at
the time when we started the project
We only had about one point one and a half billion dollars
to do the whole project. We ended up getting a
Tiffy loan for the rest
Getting a what?
Federal loan for innovative financing to cover the rest of
the 1.4 billion
Project because we only had about 1.1
The estimated cost of the right-of-way for the entire
quarter at the time was 1.1 billion dollars
So our choice was go out and buy the right-of-way and not
do anything
Or find a way to do an interim project with what we had
And so what the state decided and the stakeholders, which
is the cities along the corridor in the county
That if you were impacted on phase one
That when they went to acquire your property
They wouldn't just require what they needed for phase one
because they didn't want to come back seven years from now
or eight years
And by the rest of it if they touched you they went in
bought all that they needed for the ultimate
But then there was another group of folks that were
complaining that they couldn't lease their buildings
Or they couldn't keep their tenants because phase two was
hanging over them
So the state and the county created a phase two voluntary
program where that if you were in phase two
And you weren't needed for phase one or touched by phase
one. You could still be acquired
If you so chose and so a lot of folks took up that offer
But it wasn't holistic so there's areas where we have the
right-of-way for phase two
But there's a large chunk of areas where we don't and so
that's kind of where we got to where we're at
No
Well regarding right-of-way I heard read in the newspaper,
I'm not sure how accurate it is that there was a
Scheme going on to to
acquire land that was going to be in the right-of-way
before people really knew about it at a lower price and
Somebody got got convicted and there was a million dollar
fine. Does that fine?
Would that fine just go into the?
Justice system or does that go to text dot to help cover
the cost?
I'm unaware of where that money would go
I was very curious, but well, we have an attorney
Maybe she knows categorizes restitution according to what I
read so it would be
allocated between the victims
Okay, I
Don't know. I don't know who the victims are in this
Seems like one of the victims was text. I write
But it is considered restitution from what I read. Okay.
Thank you
Mr. Poulter do you have anything else on this topic? I
think I said we have any any other staff members have any
information to share
Questions just for clarification. So on the on the area of
the Denny a neighborhood. There is not right-of-way already
or
There is there are some right-of-way right where we did the
traffic circle and all that stuff
We had to impact them for phase one, whatever we needed for
phase two
We acquired but linearly along the the frontage roads north
and south of there
The right away wasn't acquired
And so when you look at the maps you're talking about
Like when it says noise wall to it's actually three
different walls that go for
You know hundreds and hundreds of feet
And so the other problem you have if you try to build the
frontage roads now is the frontage roads remember are going
to be
Between the main lanes and the frontage roads
So if you build them where they need to be now because
otherwise they'd be throwaway you would literally block off
the frontage road
From the main lanes so nobody would be able to get from
their house to the highway
So so what you're saying is the plan for the future is that
when that road?
Is closer to the neighborhood those walls will be built to
protect them absolutely they are in the plan and they have
been environmentally cleared
By the Federal Highway Administration, and if anybody tried
not to build those walls
They'd have just as much trouble as if you tried to build
them too early
You have to build them when the project is either
constructed or by 2035 whichever comes first
And up until that point the traffic is not going to be
closer to those homes
The main lanes are where they were all we did was widen out
from the center because you'll notice what we did is we we
came in
To and we took out the median and then we just a little bit
moved to the
To towards Dina, but it was inside the existing right away
that takes that currently had
Just wanted to make sure because it is very important for
us to protect our neighborhoods in those homes
more so than say, you know some
Buildings that may be on the opposite side of the street.
So we university has a better
Lobbyist than the state does so they made sure they got
their wall and it's in that wall was put there
Because there wasn't any room anywhere else to put it
besides
Between the frontage road and the right-of-way line and
since there wasn't any commercial property there. It didn't
impact the adjacent property
So that was that kind of lent itself to being closer to the
edge of the right away just for the design
issues that we were doing with
Okay. Thank you
When the road the interstate seemed to be going below the
grade it would seem like a
Sound wall would be sort of like part of the
Retaining wall system
But where the road goes above grade like where the highway
goes over a bridge over McCormick Street
Where does the wall go there right right along the side of
the interstate
Typically, it'll go up on the structure. Okay
But remember the McCormick bridge is a throwaway bridge. So
that's not the actual the permanent bridge, right?
So that's why they didn't do them in that area if they're
warranted
I don't know if they're wanted typically what happens at a
cross street though is the approach road
penetrates the wall
Right because if you have the wall go across the road, they
sure get to the frontage road
So once the wall is penetrated
Then there's no mitigation because the wall the sound can
get around it. And so they go to the next
Benefited receptor and there's a lot in here. I know that
looks like there's a lot of a
Lot of words in here for something as simple as what we're
talking about
But there's a lot of procedural processes that you have to
follow the feds require you to follow because of
environmental justice
They don't want somebody get more
Environmental protection than others just because they have
more money
Right. So there's a there's a rigorous process that we have
to go through
To put these walls where they go
And they does it all the time and part of the process is to
make sure that they are effective in doing what they're
intended
Yes reasonable and that's it's in there reasonable and
feasible reasonable means that it will lower the sound
feasible means that it's
No more expensive than $25,000 for benefited receptor
So there may be 70 people out there, but the noise analysis
only shows that 13 are benefited by wall
So if it costs more than 13 times $25,000, even though it's
warranted, right?
From a noise abatement standpoint, it's not feasible from a
constructability standpoint. They won't build it
Well, I had a question but on that note
So if it's not feasible, is there a point where a city can
come in and help make up that difference if it's warranted?
You can work with them. No, okay
You can do something off text that right away, right on
your own
You the feds can't allow somebody to buy more
Environmental protection and heat in this region than they
can in others. It's
it was back in the 50s and 60s when
governments and
Jurisdictions used highway projects to redevelop
Low income areas by washing them
so there's there's a there's a lot of laws that preclude us
from
Allowing some entity to get
to pay their way into more
protection
Okay
So you can do whatever you want off text that right away
Which is in a lot of people use the sound walls and fire
mountain as an example
But all those walls that you see out there that are fancy
neat cool and whatever those are off text that right away
and paid for by
the town of Flaramount
So earlier you meant you said something about that the
there is a
Chance for someone to file a lawsuit or to do litigation
after the environmental clearance
For 180 days. Yes, ma'am. So on this project, how many days
ago was the environmental?
2012 oh
Okay
All right. Thank you. It's actually 2011 and then they did
a reval in 2012
All right. Thanks. Yes, ma'am. Well for phase two
environmental clearance. I'm sorry phase
What's the 2024 plan?
So that the second part of I 35 that's phase two phase two
That environmental clearance and I'm talking about is phase
two. It's the ultimate
So everything that's ever going to be built down 35
So for example if the state was to drop come in and say we
just got six hundred million dollars extra money
But we got to spend it in 12 months
We got to find something that's already environmentally
cleared the right of ways
Generally already acquired or can be acquired. There's
really out there
chunks of 35 that weren't built in phase one are
Eligible for those funding because the entire corridor 30
mile corridor is environmentally cleared
So it's ready to go to that next step, which is acquisition
if you need to and then construction
So it's already cleared the the walls are in the braided
ramp for red developments in the
The additional managed lanes coming north from the lake all
the way around to the wishbone up to 380
That's already in it's already been environmentally clear.
We're just building pieces of it now as we go along
So really the only way at this point to get a sound wall is
to use
To be off of state right-of-way to be using city right-of-
way acquired city right-of-way and city funded
And it'd be right on those people's
Right on the property line and in a wall to work in that
area to have to be I think some of these are 14
feet tall
Okay
Thank you
But that's just if they wanted to do something right now,
right?
Correct later in the future later. They got them gotcha.
Thank you when they're impacted, right?
Anything else on this item
All right, then we will go to item
D which is receiver report hold a discussion provide
direction regarding text
Text the Department of Transportation on system projects in
the area including the 35 Express project. Are we gonna
have
Slides like we normally do here
I don't have that. Can you?
It would be nice to be able to follow on the screen mr.
Chiu what I will ask is for this particular item. I'll have
mr. Polster
facilitate that
John polster is such a retiring and reserved person that
just shy in general
I
That was interesting
Miss Anderson what?
lifesaver you are
Maybe that's right. I don't know why it's all great out
though. That's weird
That's sort of my world
Everything great out
Yeah
It's waiting to load
Oh
That's just text there we go
Okay, so the first project you have
there
Is 2181 and we just had a meeting yesterday
This project was let for those of you that haven't been
tracking this was let
In July 11th to a company called MCM contractors. We are
still in the process of
establishing a
Pre-construction meeting with those that firm we think it
'll probably be sometime in September and
as part of the kickoff meeting for the
Pre-construction project the city will be included in that
Meeting as well as probably the school district since they
have some issues that we're dealing with and on that note
pre Tim
and I met with yesterday with
School district and text that
related to the signal issues at the high school at Geyer
for both the
old-alton at the south end plus the
Crest view Creek view Creek view up to old old Alton other
old Alton
And we worked out the logistics essentially the school
district is going to provide some design work to us for
some
interim
Signals because their schools probably going to open under
the new configuration before
2181 is completed
So the state agreed to go ahead and do temporary signals
and those locations and then the county will be
working with tech stock to include the permanent
signal locations for
the new Geyer
signal in on the north side and then
pre-tem is submitted a
signal warrant request to the state for a
Signal at sundown as well and if we we get those warranted
in the state of Prusum
Then we'll include that into the project as well. Mr. Chair
sundown is right there by the South Branch Library
So I just keep moving until you tell me to stop
And
Committee members have a question. I'll be staring up there
. So just speak out
Okay, so you'll note that most of the utilities on this
project are pretty much complete
And so there's a little bit work left to do with grande and
the city of Denton's work is done inside the cost of the
project
So MCM will be doing the city of Denton's water wastewater
Improvement so we should have a fairly clean project once
they start
Our next project is called Fort Worth Drive
This is the project from basically 35 down to 1830
We've been working on this for quite a bit of time. The
project is fully funded and viral declared the right away
is acquired
All the utilities are either under under relocation or will
be relocated and we are working with the right now
The Union Pacific Railroad and I'll get down to that
Note here and the yellow part right here is the critical
path
And we basically had to come to Jesus meeting with the UPRR
back in August
They agreed to a path forward
They lent us a gentleman that they used to review our plans
to actually review our plans before we submit our plans
So that we don't get 161 comments back 30 days later
So we feel like this September 15th submission that we're
making or we made actually
To UP is going to get us to a point where we'll have the
exhibit a which is what we need from the
Railroad in order to have permission to let the project
right now
You'll see that we have a the ready to let is November 2017
. That's when we think we'll have the exhibit a
It can let any time we get it that exhibit a done because
again all the right away and most of the utilities are done
and so we're shooting for
Letting it as quickly as possible once we get the exhibit a
so
Hold your fingers crossed on UP
Working with us on that after nine years and this is like
all of the projects that you're sharing our text up
projects
These are on system text that state
These are just projects that the city and the county are
partnering and participating with the state to get them
across the finish line and they all impact
folks that travel through and in
Denton but but state law gives a lot of
Authority to railroads no, sir. The railroads got their
authority from the feds
They were here before there was a state and so they
We get our permission from them got it
Yeah, you have to have a visa actually to cross over the
railroad
On staying any time yes on this particular project do we
have
Any control over where the construction would start by the
contractor?
particularly we're interested at the Hobson
1830 and 377 intersection
Okay, that's a good point. I'll bring some of that some
stuff up on that as well
The answer is is Jay limits you see there's a text that
construction project manager
We are working with Lochner on that on a phased
construction
So basically what we need to do is that our next task force
meeting?
Bring that up and see what we can do to look at what they
're what does the state is going to propose a phased?
Approach to the project the contract will come back and
propose
their own and
That'll be part of the pre-construction meeting and again
at that point when that pre-construction meeting comes in
we'll make sure the city is
At the table as a stakeholder
But we did include some additional improvements in this
project interim to the Hobson 1830 connection
Because we noted that there was a bottleneck that was there
that wasn't going to be addressed by the 377 job
So that was brought up to our attention by your city staff
that there is a problem there and so the state agreed to
look at it they found a way to
To make some improvements to add basically a left turn lane
on 1830 for the Hobson folks
So those the people travel in 1830 can continue on down 18
30
Without violating our environmental clearance. So where we
added some additional work to try to solve that in the
interim
There's an ultimate project on 1830 that's coming. It'll
fix it in its more permanent
Configuration at that time
And again, this project is fully funded and it'll be let as
soon as
As soon as we get our exhibit a from the UP, so this is a
utility status again
We think we're very close to having everything done within
the next two months the city of Dittons utilities on this
project are included as well
And so they will be part of whatever the contractor is
selected will be responsible for working with the city to
install their utilities
This is 2499 second
It's a charter communications and it says dependent upon DM
E
So what happens is is charter co locates on DME poles?
So once DME is done and about 25 days later charters done
because they come in and hang their stuff on DME's poles
So once DME gets done, they pop on okay, that says
September 2017
So you said we're pretty on track with those being we meet
with these guys
On this particular project we meet every two two and a half
weeks
And so we're staying on top of the the utilities
We have the utility coordinator from the Dallas district
the utility coordinator from the dictionary office and the
DME folks are usually in the meeting
Okay when we're we're meeting so we're we're actively
Tracking this project and is it mainly DME there there's no
No, they're doing so the water lines have already been done
. No the water
The there was some part of the water line thing at 377. It
was this one or this is not a surface probe
Can't touch the screen
Yeah, right there it says didn't waste
What do you see the Denton it's two lines below didn't mean
this full electric
City didn't what all right. So all this stuff has been
It says are completed and will be included in construction
plans plans were submitted to text out
So in other words who ever bids on the 377 job, they're
also bidding on the city of Denton's water wastewater and
I
Can't remember one of these we did a fixed cost and the
other one we did a fixed cost after
The contractor comes in and says this is what it costs
So we tried to give the city as much protection as we could
from a contractor trying to jerk you around
Anything else that I don't answer that I did it. Thank you.
I
Don't feel like I did and just for the benefit of people
who are who are maybe watching this live streaming. Mr
Polster is a consultant
for the city of Denton
and he represents us in
work with text dot and with the North Central Texas Council
of Governments and so when he's talking and what and
the county he's also
Has a separate contract with the county. So most of the
folks here basically inherited me from previous cycles
Okay, 2499 section a redheaded stepchild, right?
Always gives the last 30 days
2499 section 5 is a section that goes from 2181 to
Mayhill State School Road if you look at it, it's driving
me crazy
I can cross Robinson that road is there ready to go
They're just doing a bunch of punch-out items and the
things that's controlling the project right now
That moved it to a December is that at that little section
up in the north where it's blue
That's the tie-in to 35 where we have a GL doing their work
on 35
OHL doing the u-turn for the Brinker Mayhill 288 and Weber
trying to tie in and locate the signals of that location
So we're having some conflicts
Between the three contractors in that one area and that's
slowing up
The completion of the project. So if you look at the
construction report
We're essentially doing finish up paving
We were supposed to be done in September and all the hards
cape will be done in September. It's the
It's the work with the signal and the tie-in to the front
age road and
They can't tie in the signals because the signal pole where
it is now on the inside
On the inside the frontage road. That's where the u-turn is
going to be
so OHL has got to do their work on them on the u-turn
before whoever can tie into that signal system and
they're not going to go to the
To the you can correct me if I'm wrong
They're not going to go to that until they get the water
line up here for Brinker
Done, and I think they're behind schedule on that and I
think pre-ten wanted to say something
I wanted to say something about the Robinson signal
Yeah, 2499 and
It's a it's a blessing probably just for the delay because
now we can actually
Put in a signal at Robinson. So here's where he's talking
about that was not included in this as part of this project
And it would have been if we open up 2499 without that
signal it would be
Especially will especially with all the schools being on
this side
And that's budgeted and the
So what we did was is that's the timing issue as long as we
can get it done for where was completed
What the state has agreed to do is if the city will just
provide them with the design
The state will just change order into the Weber contract
and where we'll just do it
so it won't cost this city anything to add to
The signal to the Robinson because it probably should have
been picked up anyway. Where are we at the design? So
What we are done is we're working with text out and
providing them step by step phase design if you may
Not not to wait the whole stretch of four or five weeks
that are needed to complete the entire design
But to give them we've already submitted 60% right?
Located all the pole locations, which is like the main
thing is getting the poles located poles located and then
order the poles
We could it's a lead item that takes weeks
So once we have that then we can work around smaller stuff.
So what he's saying is we're doing this these steps
concurrently
Where we're not waiting to get all of those stuff done as
we get a piece done. We turn it in they take care
We get a piece done. We turn it and they take care of it
Sounds very unengineering
So on the the signal so text dot is paying for that and the
city is just providing the design
Okay, and the design was budgeted for seven sixteen seven.
Okay, and in the process so
The signal at Robinson will be up and the road will be open
in December at the same time
everything so
Tina masses your new area engineer and she is
Moving these things in a nonlinear way
Because she doesn't want to open 2499 without that Robinson
signal active and she's not going to hold the road
Right just because the signals aren't open. So we're moving
heaven and earth to make sure those two
schedules G and on
pre-tems, right
OHL and a gel have helped us out on that by
jerking us around up there the signal on mail
At the at the light one other thing I want to point out
Just you're gonna probably get calls from folks. I believe
y'all have
part of
Robinson east of 2499 for a distance I think
Little ways it goes what you're gonna have is it goes four
lanes back down to two lanes
And then opens back up to four lanes where it crosses 2499
and then drops back down to its
Meandering configuration as it goes west and the reason
that was
Text that can only go so many feet past an intersection by
law and it didn't reach that
200 300 400 feet additional
so it goes four to
four to
in that area, so I'm certain somebody's gonna get called
stupid over that but
As long as it's not me I'm okay with it
They always call us to be
Yeah, so can I follow up on that or not the stupid thing or
not that part?
No, so in a situation like that would it be where the city
comes in after to you?
They could fix that or in the right away is there you can
tell that y'all done y'all required
setbacks and y'all required
Certain requirements that once something develops they have
build the rest of that road you can tell that's what's
going on
If that that northern part just hasn't been triggered yet
But yeah, you can see that it's the right that's there. It
's ready to be putting a road on
So mr. Nelson on our next agenda if you could bring us an
update on
If Robinson Road in that area is on any of the CIP plans or
our mobility plans
So we could get an idea as to what's going on there
You know that's in the south part of town so so it's
somebody else it's an idiot, you know, maybe that
No, it's it's all the record I said stupid not idiot. Oh, I
think you're not supposed to call people idiots
Well, I get called stupid idiot
Because one's never enough for me, okay, this is a new
project that y'all haven't seen and it kind of falls in
that stupid idiot
On
35 right?
You know remember it was 2012 it was environmentally clear,
right? So we weren't really confident it took us
Three tries to get 2499 65 environmentally cleared years
ago. And so we weren't really confident. It's a schedule
and
Weren't really sure what was going on with Mayhill all the
way knew that there was funding for it
So Mayhill bridge on 35 was just left as is all we did was
scab on to the inside and the outside to make the bridge
Wide enough for the lanes to go across the top now. You've
got the substandard
Substructure with six lanes coming to the south. They'll
open in December. We're working on Mayhill even as we speak
to bring four lanes
Down which four lanes already exist in this area
and so we met with
text-dot and
we have the
35 he has about
361 million dollars in cat to funding earmark for phase two
For the next 10 year period and kept to funding category
two is federal
funding that the metropolitan organization
NPO allocates so it's the RTC's money and
the RTC allocated
361 million dollars of those federal dollars to I 35 for
Phase two or phase 1b or phase whatever it ends up being
And so when we met with text that we said look we want to
go ahead and start the advanced planning on Mayhill
Because we've got six lanes coming from the south four
lanes coming from the north and we want to build the
ultimate Mayhill
Underpass like we're doing it 288. So the 288 section under
35 will be its ultimate configuration
35 on top of it will be the interim but the underneath part
will be ultimate
So that's what we're proposing to do here Mayhill they've
agreed
And from the time that this document was printed
We found out that they're probably going to assign
Ltra to be the engineering firm to do the work and remember
this projects already environmentally cleared
we're jumping right into the PS&E the design work and
So a lot of hard heavy lifting has already done on this job
so this is a new one that we're going to start tracking for
you and
we've got asterisks in the
in the document
the
environmental clearance will be changed to the
environmental clearance for
Ultimate and then text that will put it in there what they
call their sandbox
I don't want to call it sandbox
That's what they call it and then they'll give me a
schedule for that and then we'll tweak it as we move
forward
But we can beat it
They're going to give us an estimate with how long they
think it'll take but we can move that
Schedule along as quickly as we can move that schedule
along. So what I understood you say is that there's some
category two funding
That's associated with 35 project that might be available
to make that happen. Absolutely
and that that money is actually
allocated by the regional transportation council, which is
part of the
North Central Texas Council of Governments and we have a
representative on there, right?
Correct and the 361 million dollars has already been
allocated to I-35e and Denton County
There has not been any plan yet because
We're still arguing with center over the cost of what the
revenue stream is off on the wishbone
We're still waiting for the managed lanes to stabilize and
what our revenue streams going to be so there's we haven't
really thought through it yet
It's going to be difficult to make additional improvements
in the south because those are all temporary
Throwaways and the only way to go to the next phase is to
tear out everything we just built and nobody wants to do
that
yet
So there was a lot of things we skipped over for lack of a
better word
North of the lake and so this will be a chance for us to
come back in and for example
We bought the right away on the red development the state
did so they purchased that right away
That part is already environmentally cleared. So there's a
lot of desire to make the improvements on 35
35 where the W&E come together because that's your next
bottleneck in the city of Denton is that area over there
So we're looking at making improvements over there. So we
'll be doing these
spot improvements on
35 e in the interim while we're waiting on what the next
phase of 35 will be and we already got May Hill
In the hopper, okay
I guess I'll start doing these as a PowerPoint next time
Okay, this is your
Luke 288 Brinker May Hill project
The
Utilities by utilities the only utility that's left to be
relocated right now is the the city
Waterline out there and they're saying they're gonna have
that completed by
September let me go look at the utility report real quick
Hopefully it's on here. No, so it's up here. So that's the
only utility that's left is the waterline relocation
So when it says September we're anticipating having the
city's waterline done
By September
And we're looking at you okay, so we're showing you that
there's a highlighted change in the schedule
Until the OHL gets done with the waterline
They've submitted a contract
schedule change for this project that says they're going
from
August of 18 completion to February 19. Obviously that's a
problem for the city with the adjacent development
Textile is not accepted the February 2019
Extension they have to negotiate that
they're waiting till the water utility line gets done
because that was kind of the basis of the
conflict or the delay in a project was the some issues with
the waterline and
We have asked them for what's called a recovery schedule
Which means we want them to tell us what they need to do or
could do to recover back to the August
timeframe
So we're reporting February because that's out there and
In at their world or whatever you call it and we don't want
people saying we're lying to them
So it's February is what?
OHL is saying but textile is not accepted that schedule yet
. And so we're working on it. Okay
So are you you're talking about the the connection to the
other side to Bucky's
Adjacent development
The
Bucky's development is anticipating being open somewhere in
the August September of 18 timeframe, right?
The road won't be done by them according to OHL and what I
mean by not done
It isn't the brink of bridge will be there. All right, you
'll be able to go from brinker
East to brinker west or whatever you want to call it to get
to
To the development what you won't be able to do is exit
from northbound 35
to
This location because 288 bridge won't be completed which
means that the exit ramp won't be open
So you could get from one side of rinker to the other great
by the date by the August date
Potentially, so OHL still has control over when they allow
part of their project open if it's not open
If it's not completely constructed. So for example, you see
2499
It's essentially open ready to drive on but they're doing
cleanup and it's still closed. So
We got to work on that on the recovery schedule
Yeah before they open something needs to give because the
way that it is right now is just not not gonna work. So
It's an underpass correct?
Yes, ma'am. 35 will go up if you drive the if you're
driving southbound from 288, you'll see that
35
Past southbound 288 drops. So essentially all that we're
gonna do is hold that grade
For a longer distance before let it drop
Do with with Phil and then build a bridge structure for a r
ink it across
So it's there's potential for that
Development to be open in the road not
Willing to accept extra traffic for an extra seven months
or so six months
Can I quote you on that?
I'm at the question for the people listening who live in
the right. So that's the problem
That's okay is that we know that there we don't know if the
development will choose to not open
given what we experienced with them at
the ten year development 114 and 35 w they opened anyway
and
We're just now getting the last improvements on the ground
out there
Literally in October were finished. So that was a year
after
and that was not
Conducive to good mobility. So we're trying right now. We
're just reporting you
The bad news up front. We're still believe we're gonna
recover that schedule to some degree. Okay, I
Just didn't want to come here and tell you that still
In 2018 and you hear from somebody else that there you're
here in 2019. I'm just telling you that upfront
OHL has told us that this is their schedule and the state's
not accepting it
So we're gonna meet with them after the water line is done
because then they can start
Fully working on the project because all they're doing
right now is essentially utility relocations. They don't
even start on actual the road project
But all the funding for that connection is in place.
Absolutely, and there's a good chance that there's going to
be
Part of the recovery schedule is
Either giving them
additional funding
Right because we're not going to give them time because
time is what we're trying to buy back
So there may be a scenario where we have to provide
additional funding and once we know what that dollar amount
is then we'll work together between
text that the county and the MPO to determine the best
method to
Cover that cost overrun the water line is a city water line
Correct. And is there anything that the city?
Can do to expedite you guys to show up when you're supposed
to you did what you're doing
It's just that there were some valves that
Were older outside the limits of the project that you know,
nobody knew to go look for so I went to go turn them off to
to reroute the
Water they didn't work. So we had to go buy these stoppoles
or whatever
I'm way outside my league on this stuff, but they had to
order them and so it took some time
but it was it was unforeseen and the city staff was
Johnny on the spot. They've been out there helping with
Inspections as quickly as they need to be so OHL didn't
really apply themselves either. There was a lot of places
They could have been working
Other than the water line and they just didn't apply
themselves
This is what they did to us on the big project as you're
coming out of the airport
Coming up 121 where you see all the where they're doing the
braided ramps. That's an OHL job - that was supposed to
been done in July
And still not completed. So there's just it's their MO
Okay, and and I'm assuming that someone has notified the
developer I'm not going to well
mark
Can you make sure that somebody knows if I make sure the
developer they actually talked to me because I'll tell you
what?
He has lobbyist
Okay, so here's the thing. I did talk to him the other day
because he was asking about this signal at
For the frontage roads. Okay, so here's the kicker
We're gonna be beating OHL to give us a recovery schedule
and not giving them any more time
but then we're gonna ask him to include in the project the
signal at
Brinker that wasn't in the original project because it wasn
't warranted
we provided a warrant I think to the city and to text that
that says that the the
signal will be wanted and
We want to include it in the project so that when the
project's done the signals there and operational because it
'll help traffic flow
So we got this kind of that's more money, too
Yeah, but it's not the money. That's the issue
It's that OHL is going to take anything we ask them to do
additional as an excuse to ask for more time, right?
And that's not what we can't give them more time. So
It's a it's a dance
Or knife fight and I can't remember which one it is
Okay
And we have about 20 minutes left because we got a I can
get done real fast. Yeah, okay
Okay 35 north this is real quick this is there's no really
update on this other than we're waiting on
HDR to address some of the comments that we're working on
for the value engineering study
this is a project from 380 all the way up to the county
line widening the project to
For for a six lane freeway it isn't funded in the region
but the reason we haven't funded in the region is with the
region has made a
strategic decision to allow
Text thought Austin to come in and pick this up because
text that Austin said it's their goal by a certain date to
have 35
from the Rio to the red six lanes and so
We're going to give them an opportunity to
honor their commitment
But if they don't I'm sure the cargo come in and text that
and they'll help pick up that project
but we're looking at the environmental completion of this
project being done in
December of 2018. So let's say it does happen in 2018 by
June July of 19
If you don't file a lawsuit on this project, it's set in
stone literally
from a
regulatory standpoint
That's the critical date after that we can move
Wow
After that date we can move faster on the right away and
the utility locations where we're in control of our own
destiny
So right now we need to get the we got comments from the VE
study
We've got to get those back to the feds. We're working on
that and we're shooting for that December 2018
environmental clearance date
In town. I love this road now. I go to Academy all the time
. It should be
Completed and punched out. They're just doing
I'm just showing you I'll show you all they're doing right
now is doing punch list and
Issues that the lanes should be open. I was out there the
other day and it appeared that they were
All right, go ahead only one question there
Is there any are there any plans to put landscaping in the
wider sections of the medians where there's just grass now?
That's dying to match
Typically what happens is is after the project is completed
the city comes in and coordinates with
Text that area office and through the green ribbons program
Okay, and they do it after fact because we don't let the
contractors do landscape because they don't do it very well
, right?
Okay, so that would be something the city follows up with
right and we can work with them on that
They're actually y'all staff is fairly
proficient at the
All that stuff because if you look at most of your roadways
, there's there's what I call enhanced landscaping on your
own system projects
So, okay. Thank you. It's typically after the project is
the contractors gone
All right
Us 380 East this is the project out to the Collin County
line
This project is now fully funded at the hundred and thirty
million dollar
price tag text that is
Doing the green segment in house because it's easy
essentially, which includes
Julie's 10-foot
Bike trail I think whatever
Can you drive a car on it?
And then I don't know anything about it
And
See I tell you what I've seen pollster with cowboy boots
his cowboy hat and his spandex shorts on a mountain bike
And I don't ever want to see it again
It's someone control
So
We have
CHN 2 Hill I think is doing the design for the blue section
or its trans systems
I'll get that for you
We just got that the other day, but they are moving forward
with schedule such that we are anticipating having
the environmental clearance by
June of next year now there are 114 parcels to acquire in
the blue section alone
But that's outside y'all city limits, but people that go
that way we're going to be grade separating
720 423
NaVo where Brazzwell is really and
Teal and legacy so it'll basically be a what we call a
super street and just when you say great operation
What you mean a bridge where the people on?
380 will not have to stop if they're just going on through
at these locations
They could just continue on but if they want to stop there
'll be an off-ramp to get off the lanes to come to those
roads
To cross streets, so it'll
It won't be a freeway. It'll be what we call a limited
access facility which means you'll have far fewer stops and
Obviously you're not going to stop anywhere over the lake
so that should move the traffic fairly well
And it does include the and there's a question. Oh, this is
the point where I ask you about the right turn
I know that's supposed to be done as a separate
maintenance job well before this and I and so we want from
We've had three area engineers since this request was made
So I guess we just need to tee that back up in our on
system meeting mark if you
In what we're talking about is loop 288
Going north on 288 to go east on 380
And it's stuffs there
I mean bus showed a way to fix it without having to have to
jack with that drainage ditch on and there's and there's
development coming in
Actually, just wipe that out
That get widened yeah, we will put on our on system task
force report and
Start we'll put it in there. We'll put as a standalone
Item for us to start tracking and and we might want to also
have it on our radar screen in terms of of
Whatever the engineering department is doing with the
developer on that in terms of curb cuts to get into that
Facility that new development, I was surprised when I
thought it was like 55 acres
And it goes way back to the east
Yes, I used to take my son younger son to school in the
mornings early for football and there were several times
I came back. I'd see a big old buck chasing does out there
So I'm glad y'all are doing that because I think you're
gonna push him towards my property
Okay
Luke 288
so
Luke 288 is
anticipated having environmental clearance by
2020 and
That's not because we can't get it done sooner
We are going to try to move that up, but right now 288 is
not in what's called conformity
Until like 2040 and so we have to update conformity
Which conformity is where you have the highway bill and
what you do with transportation match
What's your air quality requirements are they have to
conform to each other?
and so anytime you build a road either helps or hurts air
quality and
You take credit for it in a certain year and right now 288
is moving faster
Procedurally than what we anticipated so it's in a further
out here and conformity. So we've got to walk through a
process to get it
back to a
Year that we're working on we think we can get that done by
next year
But if nothing else happens 2020 is the time frame and I
was meeting with Kelly Salmon again on last Thursday
And he wants to get together and find a way to start
Funding 288
What concern that I've got regarding that is that?
my my memory serves me it was hard to find a
preliminary route because so many gas wells and and what my
concern is is that
In the meantime, there may be more gas wells that pop up
that block it is all of this within our
city limits so that we can make sure that we don't have any
gas wells blocking it or
or
What's the story on there?
Well, we've threaded the needle on all the gas wells that
are out there and we coordinated with the coal ranch and
with various
Know the developers in the north and then we're working
with you know
We're basically going where the airport was going to take a
take their alignment. So we feel like we've got a corridor
That's fairly well protected
And we had to tweak it a little bit just the other day
Not the other day a couple months on the on the southern
section for 2449 because you had a transmission line
And then you had a gas well, so we y'all recommended us
taking a more southerly
alignment to miss both the transmission line and the and
the gas well, so we've got a
we've got a
alignment that we think that it's
fairly well threaded through
not only the current
Conflicts but the ones we've been able to anticipate going
forward with the development that we've been coordinating
with
And so remember there's a full
grade separation with direct connects on the northern part
there will only be a
half direct connect on the
428 I mean for 20 the 2449 from 35 to the loop there won't
be anything going from 35 to vintage
There'll be ramps, but there won't be direct connects
Okay 1515 this is gonna be quick
We just got LTRA's
cost estimate and
We are reviewing that and we'll close and I think that they
've been coordinating with the city staff to make sure that
we're tying in
What they're doing with the Bonnie Bray, but once we get
them on board again, we'll do a kickoff meeting make sure
that the
LTRA
Includes the city and a lot of their action items because
there's a lot going on out there
1830 this is the rehab project
and
Basically, they're continuing this work will be done in
August 2018 and this is basically a mill and overlay with
with
shoulders
Anything on those
Questions on that
Do we have a we have a name that we normally call 1830 for
people who don't familiar with that number
Is it
Okay, I think it's 1830 right
Just a note because I know that
Awhile ago we had McKinney on here, which was 428, but now
that the city has that road
We're not getting updates from mr. Polster anymore. So if
there's a way that we can get those updates around the same
time
Frame for this committee on that would you like a monthly
or would it every other month or quarterly work?
Just something regular, please just so when we get an
update
Maybe a placeholder because this is normally an agenda item
So if we could just follow it up with McKinney Street
agenda item to for updates
Right with utilities and anything like that
And it may be nothing to report this month, but we don't
want to have nothing to report for more than about
For very long because we want to see progress being made on
it
Okay, so item E is staff reports
Mr. Chair actually on this one
We have an RTC update. I think councilmember but Gary had
wanted to may approach him to Gary
would like to
Provide some information for majesty
Mark are you gonna pull up the RTC? Yes, ma'am. Oh my god
I'm triggered
Okay, so I'll just let me go through this while I while we
're waiting
So RTC was on Thursday and there were several items that I
wanted to bring forward to the mobility committee
This is my first mobility meeting although I've been on RTC
for I guess nine months now
so I don't know how you guys did it before but I I'm just
winging it
I
Welcome by the way glad you're here
Yeah meeting materials
These meetings are also televised. So I think last time we
had what four or five people watching out of the whole
region
They tell you how many people are watching seriously four
people
Is that through streaming yes, it's live stream and they
have the old meetings as well as I understand it
so
Let's see
I have mine up so I wanted to just touch on some of the
things that I had requested and kind of get
Mobilities feedback. There's a traffic signal timing
project. I think that's on point
2.2
Wanted to know if there's anything that city of Denton we
were specifically called out at that meeting city of Denton
Do you have any traffic signal timing projects? You'd like
to bring to us?
So I'm just carrying that forward to see if there's
anything
Along those lines they can't have been changed in the last
however many months and I know we changed a lot of ours
recently
Just update on that. We went after the same grant a couple
years ago. We received it
we have a consultant on board through cog that's currently
working on our timing and I
Would say it's been a little bit struggle, especially with
all the construction projects going on throughout the city
it's been a challenge to collect data make it efficient and
Retime it so it's been a slower process and it's over
little over a year that the consultants been gathering data
and
Developing timing we don't have the new timing yet
But we'll soon have it and implement it and when we're
talking about timing what we're talking about is a
sequencing of signal lights
We make traffic flow more smoothly and and and not have as
many cars
Stopped at signal lights and idling and putting emissions
into the air. What roads are we talking about?
We're in we currently have about
75 or 78 signals that we're gonna do and they're all along
major corridors 380 is one of them
Teasley all the major corridors to a Friday loop 288 is one
of them. So
We've almost about 60 to 70 percent of the signals will be
retimed
Are you saying that that they were looking for more
submission? They want more submissions. Yes
This one is the retiming and they want to be able to
determine what your mobility benefits are for
microphone, please
35 points for mobility benefit cost benefit analysis of
your progression of your traffic through the corridors
They want to know what you're not to VOC. They'll calculate
that for you
Make sure that it's tied into other technologies
communications. What's your environmental justice is?
That's a thing that I was talking about a minute ago
and then
However, it supports multimodal
Operations from you know moving trucks cars people. So
those are the criteria that you have to meet and it's a
It's a it doesn't have a maximum dollar amount but they're
trying to limit it to
Smaller
Denomination so they can get more
Dots on the map for lack of a better word
and then
John so
Maybe I'm connecting these two and they're not supposed to
be connected
But at a prior meeting they had also stated that they were
looking for data
For that's a different that's a different program and that
is
That's what they're essentially trying to do is get the
cities to allow or to upload their information to this cog
5-1-1
Programming and they disseminated out to ways in rates all
of the the
traffic
GPS folks, right and they want real-time information like
so if you're gonna have your
Festivals down here, whatever you're gonna close streets
from this time of this time or these days
That gets uploaded to the 5-1-1 and then 5-1-1 distributes
out
And so when ways is routing people to Denton, they'll have
that real-time information and they'll
they'll
They'll reroute it and and so there's
There's some costs associated with the city's to do and
this program that Tom
Belmont a Belmont he's doing provide some
compensation to the cities for some
Whatever they got to do to make that data available and it
's basically if you say you want to do it
I'll do it with you
And just as a heads up I've reached out to town of Flower M
ounds traffic engineer
We're gonna try and get their submittal they submitted and
so we're gonna see what we can do to see if there's a way
to
Craft something similar with that
Just a question on the
Traffic signal. So is this funding for new signals?
This is retiming. Okay, and it can't be signals that have
been retimed any time in the last two years and
There's more there's the criteria is way larger what I'm
telling you
What they're gonna grade you on but they won't even let you
start if they don't think your road is a
What they call a significant arterial in other words has is
eligible for movement of traffic
So there's some things we got to walk through but it's
worth looking at I mean
And we qualify because we're in a non-attainment area. That
's correct, right?
Okay, and so the other program is what they call minor
improvements and by minor improvements, they're saying
$50,000 or less per
per
Power per project and so they're talking about you need to
if some cities don't have opticon
signals types or whatever so it
Those are the said those are types of things are talking
about, you know some type of control or whatever
That's not very expensive, but that would link them somehow
and again, they have a criteria that again
It's environmental justice the cost to the mobility benefit
ratio all this stuff
And they're the call this call is open through October 13th
, I think
You got to get it in
so
They don't give you a lot of time
So just on that one
We're not eligible because we've already have funding and
we're currently using that to retime all the signals
So they will be retimed in the near future in the next few
months
So we can't go for funding on this route. So whoever
probably called you out
Probably didn't know you were already doing it. I might
have confused the call out the way
Tom really wants didn't yes, and I think I think that I
think that comment was Denton County wide
It wasn't just the city of Denton
Yeah
To follow up on the the timing
Is that something you bring back to the committee and we
will look at those or is that just something that
automatically happens?
I'm because we have like request for longer yellow lights
and things like that
Is there a way for citizens to comment on certain
intersections or are you just look at traffic flow?
This may be off topic. So
Actually cog has hired a consultant to develop the signal
timing and primarily they're looking at coordination. They
're not looking at
Necessarily one or two locations that need extra green or
extra yellow time. It's more focused on corridor and
Through traffic moving traffic through the ever gone
through Abilene when you're trying to go to Colorado
And you pray that you get there at that time you get that
signal just right where all 13 of those signals turn green
So here's you're going through that's what they're talking
about
They want the traffic to progress right to keep the
emissions. I gotcha. I didn't know that anybody went
through Abilene to get to Colorado
Maybe an amaryllis. They all look alike to me Wow
The next item was number five the 2017 infrastructure for
rebuilding America grants
the infra grants and I just wanted to get a little
blurb from our people about what we might be eligible for
what we might be applying for
Because it's quite a large pot of money. Yes, so
I
Was using some choice words during RTC on text message back
and forth between
Text that in cog not with me. Don't boy. No, no
And I don't know if you saw when I got out and left and
then Mo burr got up and Michael got up and left
That's what we were talking about
Because not typically what they do on these is they say
here we're gonna pick what we think is a good project,
right?
So they're picking 635 and then they say the locals you're
eligible you can submit what you want
And they but typically in the past they would give you a
letter of support as long as it was in the plan
Now they're saying we don't want you competing against us.
I guess what we're not gonna do
We're not gonna give you a letter of support. So these are
very involved
Applications and they're very expensive
We were gonna I was gonna try to do one for 35 on the wish
bone because that's what was submitted under fast lane last
time
But only if cog was gonna do a letter of support if they're
not gonna do a letter of support
the feds aren't even gonna look at it, so
That was the problem is if they're they're talking about if
you look at the next part there, it says please be aware
you know about
details recent grant it's talking about whether they should
provide
The letter not and you heard where they were going saying
no, we're not going to support other applications
So and you think that that's a death knell for any type of
application to the feds?
Your experience has been that yes, and I when I said that
tomorrow goes well there was a there was one project in
another state
They got funded
One one
So but here's the thing this is the
And I want to be careful I say because you look at the
previous item big projects in Texas
You'll know that there's no
Way, will you move up to item for you see the electronic
item five and the grants and all that stuff
That means if you wanted to go before the meeting and look
at it
You can go look at it. What the presentation is going to be
Item four does not have any
presentation associated with it, right
they already picked LBJ they already picked the
Downtown lower lowest Simmons and they already picked the
project in Tarrant County to be the big idea
And it was basically Victor Vandergrift Michael Kelly Sal
mon and low bustle the two district engineers Michael and
the
Commission said these are priorities and they laid them out
to the group now
Unfortunately, they're right
Those are the right projects. There's there's nothing that
competes with 635 in the section
They want to do or the lowest lower Simmons where all the
volume of traffic is coming off of 183
It's dropping down into that area where because the city of
Dallas is
Squirrely they dumped on the Trinity project. So now they
got to go back and fix what's actually there
In its city of Dallas had not been what they were
So we're having to put a lot of money into the city of
Dallas to fix their problems because a political chicanery
So I was upset more about the fact that there was
of the process
Than the projects right because there wasn't any
Dialogue
Would that be political chicanery or skullduggery?
Well when you don't like them I call it skullduggery if you
think they got good intentions, but they just messed up
I call it chicanery. Okay. Thank you
Yes, ma'am. Okay
I don't know what item it was but there was a mention about
in city and government's bond
Planning process. Yes to include
Pre kind of pre planning with RTC as far as what projects
may be matched by RTC
So you can kind of get that pre clearance a little bit and
I know we're talking about a 2020 item 13
Thank you. I know we're talking about a 2020 or
2021 bond program
So I wanted to talk about this now as far as planning ahead
with what it is that
we even present to like our bond committees and
That out there so what they do is is they'll say if you're
planning on having a bond program
Come sit down with us. Tell us what it is. You think you're
gonna do. Let us see which one of those are
Federally eligible for participation whether it be through
CMAC STBG
or their local funds that they they they generate and the
intention is is they still want you to go out for if you're
planning on doing a
Hundred million dollar bond program. They still want you to
go out and do the hundred million dollar bond program
They just want you to let them pay for
30 million of it and then you give them 30 million bucks in
local funds because they put in their local fund account
and now they
Got money that doesn't have strings attached but typically
to get 30 million. They'll give you 40
So you leverage it up?
Because you're taking
Dollars that have to go through a process and you're giving
them dollars that don't so your money's worth more
So you leverage it
right
Which is this is not new
So what I understand councilmember is that we just need to
continue to work on prioritizing our list
And working with the council government's only opportunity.
I would just tweak that a little bit
Before you prioritize your list you may not know what is
what how to tweak it to make it more
leverageable and Coggro will come meet with you and just
have it like a
Shred or brainstorm where you just kind of talk about what
you want to do
Yeah, so before we get to the part where we're prioritizing
is what I'm understanding
There was a small bond that our small
Grant two small grants. So I don't I'm sorry. I can't
remember which item it was but it was a low-income
mobility
elderly low-income
That would be the chart
So here I really have more of a question
Do you remember which item it was? I think it's nine. Okay
so there there was a federal funding to improve access to
work for the low-income workforce and access to mobility
for
The elderly and mobility
impaired and I went to a public meeting at DCTA on
Some of the things that are needed and Denton a lot of
community members there. Obviously it was at DCTA. I
left there thinking that DCTA would be
Applying for something or that one of the community groups
would be applying for something and it turns out that Dent
on didn't have any
applications at all
So I don't know what maybe I just made an assumption that I
shouldn't have made but how can we?
Encourage DCTA to go after some of these projects if you'll
hit electronic at nine
It'll show you the list. I think you're talking about
Right list if you see the organization's way up there on
the top
So there was money specifically for the Denton Louisville
corridor and only span of Louisville and span of I think
flower mound applied for it
But I definitely see needs for our for mobility for our low
-income workforce
that's something that comes up a lot and I was surprised
that I
Thought since we I guess I thought since we were having the
meeting at DCTA that DCTA was applying for it
but what I guess that's
May I'll get I'll get with that Christina Brevard and
Michelle Bloomer who handles their bus their bus bus
operations and see what?
See how we can better engage in that process. Well also in
span of different
Is that separate from Louisville? I
Don't know
Span is just a dentin organization because they get human
services money
There's also a spit you said span and Louisville got
somebody so we need to make sure that span and dentin is
aware that this is
possible
And so to that point
I mean we have data now with our point-in-time count with
homelessness issue and also low-income that
Transportation is the number one biggest issue that is
preventing people from working
So if they need that data, I mean it's out there right now,
especially for our city
Yeah, I'm thinking maybe we just need to have a little bit
more better coordination between what some of our social
needs are and
then and DCTA and
The funding opportunities that are available. So just a way
to bring that all together
And I feel like I dropped the ball as well. So mea culpa
For the smaller
Joint access reverse community programs and whatnot and if
the money is not applied for and/or given
So you want me to start over
Yeah
All right, I'll be more succinct
This is a subset of the money that was allocated to the
three transit organizations the D the T
Dart and DCTA and it's sub allocated to let these look
smaller entities have a shot
The lights the lights tell on but I think you have your mic
on you might want to pull your mic closer to
Okay, I'm not repeating it. Okay
And the thing is is if the the subset group that it's in
that area for DCTA doesn't apply for those funds
They simply just go back to DCTA
So DCTA is not the ones that would be the spans and the
smaller organizations and and not to put a too final point
On it, but the the transit agencies are actually hoping
that a lot of these folks don't apply
So the money comes back to them for theirs their use is is
this money that would be used for a
Term that that a lot of the transit organizations talk is
the last mile
So people people get to the bus station or to the train
station. They've got a mile to go
They have a disability that's a difficult thing to do and
that this would help find getting them to that line
And you're in your jar product program is
The last mile going to work and getting home right? There's
a lot of people find they have the ability to get
Transit to work, but if they are in the middle of the day
and they have to come home for some reason
They don't have a way to get back, right?
Some of the project
recipients were span obviously
Of Louisville and then the dart program was a taxi
Reimbursement program for it was like a voucher program for
exactly what you're talking about, which is the last mile
So I'm that helps me understand as usual everything that I
think is how things work and
transportation funding is the exact opposite so
Maybe just brainstorming about how we can include our
smaller organizations that serve these communities
More into the mix and if I need to do something or maybe
reach out happy to do it
I just I guess I didn't realize that all those people at
the meeting weren't gonna apply for them for the funds
They've got the funds. They're hoping nobody else applies
for them
Okay, well there are there's some community groups there.
Yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry
Yeah, it was a community groups meeting and there were a
lot
There's a lot of catching and needs that weren't being met
and so I was just surprised
So I think maybe we need to kind of step in and help in
some way connect the dots for for community groups in the
future
So this is the 13 minute warning
Thank you that was very helpful I appreciated that more
insight than I've gotten on RTC meetings
So we still have a few left on staff reports like the DCTA
pedestrian bridge and that who's going to do that
So mr. Chair on on the update on the pedestrian bridge you
had requested as part of a
The matrix back in June just an update on that particular
project I did in the backup as stated
DCTA is moving forward with a with a text out grant to
connect basically from Swisher down to Kelton
which is
Just just on the north side of the bridge on the east side
of 35
So that's south of town south of south side of Lake Dallas
and then kind of through Hickory Creek
on the east side of 35
That's that's part of a text dot grant through DCTA. They
're in the process of constructing that then as part of the
35 Express project
that that
Hiking bike trail be picked up there at Kelton just on the
south side of Kelton
It'll take it across the bridge or across the lake on the
existing bridge
To the to the Lake Louisville
Highland Village station do we know when that's going to be
completed?
the
The bridge structure they've opened the frontage roads now
and they're just finishing the the screening walls on each
section and then so they're saying that
by end of September the shared use path will be open there
They're not they're doing the non transportation
Related items last because they're 58 days behind schedule
but
We think that by the end of September that that shared use
path will be open is the shared use path on both
The southbound and northbound or is it just on one correct?
It's on both sides
Okay, and there's a 14 foot outside lane on the fringe road
for any of those brave enough to ride a bicycle there
I'm not
Move on
The other the other item then
Item three is just a notice of the public meeting on FM 18
30 for next Tuesday
Tuesday yet the
26th and this is for the widening of 1830 from two lanes to
four with 12 foot lanes and 10 foot shoulders
It's a actual widening not the resurfacing that's going on
now and that public meeting is when and where?
It is on the 26th and it is at Harpal Middle School
6 p.m. 6 p.m. To 8 p.m
Okay
And for the matrix on the matrix just quickly wanted to run
run through these on item to
UNT parking meters that project was completed we
We had to add some additional signage on the south side of
Hickory between Welch and and Fry Street
But that was completed as of yesterday. So
Everything is in place as of now. We also had as part of
that
we preserved a number about six parking meter poles and
added some bicycle
Bicycle racks to those so that we could basically allow
upwards to two bikes on each of those
Parking meter poles that was a suggestion of one of the
stakeholders
In the area to to encourage some additional bike parking in
the area
So we'll continue to work with UNT in terms of enforcement
of parking in that area and get some data
Report that back at the end of the year in terms of
How well that's working how quickly or how efficiently?
vehicles are
rotating or cycling through those parking spots
Yes, ma'am
And is there a chance to to also maybe do something a pilot
program on the bike?
Bicycles there on that bike lane to get data to go along at
the same time
So we was we looked into that or initiated that process
Julie. Do you have an update on that?
Yeah
Yeah, it's definitely it's possible to do it for cheap I
mean it's relatively cheap and just be paint
Just some slight concerns about
Reaching out to the businesses, you know, we told them
there's not gonna be a bike lane there right now if we do
it as a pilot
What's the feedback going to be from those business owners?
So just some issues we need to work
Forward with before we move forward with doing a pilot
program
Well, I would think that for the businesses it would be
beneficial because they would actually have real data to
compare to like
Does this really affect my business or not or you know,
does it help it does it you know, and that would be
Easy easier for council to to make that call knowing those
numbers. So it was just a
An idea. Yeah
Regarding the matrix it said that I'm looking on the matrix
saying we were gonna get some information in this month
I don't know parking in front of DCTA bus shelters, correct
We've taken that item to award with the legal department to
change the code and some modifications
for the authority of the
traffic engineer to impose parking restrictions currently
the traffic engineer has authority to impose parking
restrictions for
in front of trash cans in front of other places that are
needed throughout the city for access purposes
so as part of that I talked to legal and they said the
easiest and the best way to
Implement this without getting into whole ordinance or our
big change was to add bus stops
Within that whole language and that would resolve the issue
We can look at it case by case basis and actually implement
it where wherever it's necessary
So we've taken that to traffic safety. They've recommended
to move forward with the
suggestion of modifying the ordinance chapter 18
Of the code and then I'll bring it to council in the
October 10th meeting. Okay
Do we have any members that have any concerns on the
current matrix
Questions on the current matrix. I do know that I think
someone Mario you were gonna do a little presentation on
that last item
Okay, we've been receiving it messages emails around about
Hickory
Lately, this is a I think what that those emails are about
The last one yeah
Um
Hang on a second. We have five minutes left. Yeah, unless
you can do it really quick. I can go real fast
Okay, because we need some time for I don't sure future
agenda
The bottom line is the Hickory Street improvement project.
It's about to kick off in January of next year
And so one of the things that has been brought to our
attention
By the oak Hickory historic district is is there an
opportunity for the city to consider?
Adding some or working with that with with that group of
incorporating some sidewalk improvements along with
The decorative lighting that they have on Oak Street if you
drive down Hickory the decorative lighting is on the south
side
But there's not any on the north side and if you drive down
oak
That that decorative lighting is zig-zagged across across
the street. I believe there is
Believe 10 to 12 lights across that corridor and they'd
like to replicate that very same look and feel on Hickory
The issue with Hickory is there's a very little lip. There
's a very little room on the north side
However, Hickory is a slightly slightly wider than oak. So
before we go into construction
The thought is could we through the engineering department
look at?
Hickory
With the potential of shrinking the width of the road to
incorporate room to allow for the decorative lighting and
the sidewalk improvements
And so before we went to construction, we've met out on
site with our design team
Engineering team to see what options we could have and that
's that's what they're doing
Now is seeing what options are available what that would be
from a cost perspective
What would it be from a timing perspective with the
improvement so that we don't lose too much time if there is
that?
If that is a case
So we wanted to bring it to the to the committee's
attention to see if you want us to continue continue with
that process of vetting
Before we go any further
I'm good with it
But I would be concerned about making the Hickory Street
more narrow
and losing the bike lane
Now if you wanted to consider
making the travel lanes more narrow and creating a
buffer between the bike lane and the
Auto lanes and using that buffer is a place to put those
street lights
I could I could really
Work up a lot of enthusiasm for something like that
We'll look at those options again. It's just to bring it to
your attention
Yeah, I'm good with looking at options
All right
Then items for concluding items and where we'd be looking
at things to consider on the next meeting
On our next agenda. We need to have an election for the
chair and the vice chair
I'm chairing this because I was vice chair and we need to
get that done
Let's get a fuller report on
Timing
Signal sequencing what all is involved where we're focusing
on
Doing those projects and in anticipation of when we might
see that happen
There was some time back we had heard some information
about
Not interested in necessarily
enforcing the the parking rules saying you can't park
within
20 feet of an intersection or a stop sign that we were
going to put up some signage instead
To educate people that you're not supposed to do that
Let's give it a report back on on where we are in that
process
Other items. Yes, ma'am
Okay, so
there is not a
Crossing signal at McKinney and Mayhill and I know that
both of those roads are going to be redone
But I was standing there at a red light trying watching
children tried to cross
After school and I would looked up and realized there's not
even anything there
for them to
Cross at that intersection and so that was really shocking
to me
and I don't know if we've just been waiting and waiting and
waiting to do anything until the roads are
Getting improved
Reconstructed but it's I just like for us to look to see if
there's something we can do right now
I mean kids were just like giving up and walking in between
cars as they were stopped at a red light and
So stop to the stop sign, yeah, no the red light at
Mayhill and
McKinney there's it's an intersection right? It's like busy
and there's there's nothing
and so
Sorry
So you're looking for some pedestrian crossing pedestrian
signal at that intersection. Is that what you're something
we can do in the meantime
Pedestrian signal for crossing. Yeah, right. I mean, I'm
sure that when those
Intersections when the intersection is upgraded there's
gonna be quite a bit of stuff there. But when we're looking
at the McKinney
Design, I know we were gonna look at something for sidewalk
s first
So maybe we can get that incorporated as well, too
And an update on the green ribbons project or program with
landscaping
I I don't know if that's is that our department or this
committee
It was mentioned that that's who takes care of the
landscape through the parks department
Okay
No, I'm good. Let's see our go
If we could bring back the bike lanes on Hickory discussion
as a part of this larger Hickory Street options
I'd like to go ahead and start moving that along. Are you
talking about?
Where they already are or no the new bike lanes that we had
talked about we tabled
Okay as a council so but
Along the University of North Texas campus. Yes
Fry Street area. Yes, okay
And especially as it relates to how we're gonna configure H
ickory Street
Just the next block over like to understand that as a
complete project
For the next meeting if we could have a specific discussion
about
Dedicating funds for sidewalks and creating a dedicated
sidewalk fund
And where that money might come from just note
there's I think eight hundred forty thousand dollars that
we found in this budget cycle that would probably be
available I
remember when we find money
And then maybe as a part of that sidewalk discussion a
Top three list of the most important or high priority
sidewalks that you already have on file and
What that might cost so that we have just a discussion
about what that funding needs to look like going forward
with examples
Okay, just we gotta go. Okay. One last thing I forgot is
the
congestion mitigation air quality improvement project
funding we had
Sidewalks that we for the schools that we had applied for
for that and just an update on those please on that
I have a letter here
At the next meeting
Need detail from her after the meeting because it's 1132
and we're going to adjourn this meeting
Thank you all. Thanks for the reports
[ Silence ]