WEBVTT

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And we're going to start are we going to start with pledge

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yes, we're going to start with the pledge of allegiance

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Roy would you mind starting us off?

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Honors Texas flag I pledge allegiance to the Texas

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One State Indivisible

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One State Indivisible I'm sorry

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One State Indivisible

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You got it

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I fell apart I got distracted

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I had it right here the cheat sheet

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You forgot to move it

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No that's state pledge

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So chair I would ask if we might be able to take things out

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of order and move to the concluding items

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We have a couple of visitors here

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Yes please

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So in the concluding items what I wanted to do today is

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recognize that Peggy Riddle has moved her homestead back to

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Dallas I believe

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And she's no longer going to be the chair that's why we

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have the item on the agenda to replace the chair which is

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irreplaceable as she is

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And we also have Eric Polito visiting today who hasn't been

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on the commission since I think maybe November

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It was way back there

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And you know I'm sure you all have worked with them longer

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than I have

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But it's just been you know their leadership has been

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invaluable

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And we have an item on the agenda today about downtown

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district design guidelines

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I've looked back in the old minutes and Eric is from day

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one in the door six years of asking for something about

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some protection of downtown

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And I mean Peggy is just amazing to work with her

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leadership her demeanor everything has just been really

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incredible

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And so I have a couple of gifts for you all not really

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gifts but just a little lottery

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I made these plaques let me just give you a little history

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you know I can't do anything that I have plaques

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Now sorry these aren't Denton properties on your left right

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here is the what was called the Dew Drop Inn through the 50

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s and 60s a little one room hotel

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But originally it was this homestead built about 1909 by

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Andrew Goldhammer and the building during Hurricane Beulah

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It took Beulah took a couple of big hurricanes that came

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through and you noticed that the roof lost its its gable

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and the pitch and it became a flat roof

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And boy that was a really bad decision by that Landmark

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Commission because by the time I got to Brownsville the

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entire middle of that house was completely rotted out

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I have a video I was going to share with you but I don't

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want to go too long but I had to the I had to really defend

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letting that demolition permit go through

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So I made a lot of videos of stepping through the floor

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literally falling through the floor of the middle of that

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house and the city had acquired it and it's it's now gone

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But I went through and got the window and door trim and so

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these plaques this side of this plaque is window and door

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trim

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Now I learned something this week that I didn't know and

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when you're talking about old growth lumber what I learned

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there was a window specialist who gave a long lecture on

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this would

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And you know he said that that if it's soft wood it's

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probably the trees that were felled at the time were

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possibly five to seven hundred years old when we were

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cutting down that old growth lumber

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And if it was a I'm sorry that's the hardwood and if it was

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a softwood they could have been a thousand years old if we

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were filling those those trees

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And another thing about this property it is Brownsville

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with lots of Catholicism is a big deal so the guy there in

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that picture is leaning kneeling and praying in front of a

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This was a Chinese tallow that was in front of the house

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that he thought they thought they saw the Virgin Mary in

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that tree and so for years people would come and kneel in

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front of that house and that was part of its history

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The other wood on this plaque here this was the first house

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that I had to that building that got taken down right after

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I graduated from architecture school came down to Browns

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ville on your left is the is a house that was still standing

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when I came

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I researched the house and determined it was actually from

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before 1860 and if you look on your right this is a post

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card of someone down around the turn of the century coming

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down to Brownsville and you see it says Mexican homes Rio

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Grande City

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Rio Grande Valley Texas and you see on the right behind the

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home a more contemporary structure with milled wood and a

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composition roof actually looks like there but these that

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ched roofs still existed and they existed quite late and so

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here's an 1894 sandborne map and on this map you notice

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that a diagonal it says Mexican dwellings and then that

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circle around 910 well 910 is that building on the left so

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I was really angry when

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actually the building official on his own just nothing to

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scoff at the building official without any permits or

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anything took that one down on the left because the mayor

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had gotten upset and wanted some cleaning up done around

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the neighborhood and so we lost that that structure but the

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wood I went over and they had already crunched most of it

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up but I have a few planks of the of the wood that's in

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that building that's what's on the left side and think that

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's all I have on these plaques but I wanted to present these

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to y'all and if you have anything else to say if you want

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these are

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needs

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so I'm still working for Ditton County so I'm here as a

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resource I enjoy working with each and every one of you and

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Eric he and I were both on the same page with the downtown

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and I'm still gonna be there for the downtown once y'all

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get it all worked out here so thank you very much.

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Thank you.

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You can still say something.

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I just want to say, well thank you. First off I appreciate

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the recognition.

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You know, this HLC commission has been really a treat to me

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I joined.

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And the city started writing about my band and I thought

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man that's that's pretty cool you know I maybe I should get

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to know somebody down there at the city level and see what

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they're up to and not be this this this dichotomy or schism

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that exists of where the artists

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are in the city and, you know, never this to meet.

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I was married down at 1910 West Oak down the store.

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And there's so much that I've learned and the value that I

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really gained into our different districts and particularly

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the downtown district where I have businesses there and

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obviously, you know, really feel that there's an inherent

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value that's palpable.

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And that became such a desire to protect that because you

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know these places these buildings. They're going to be

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there after we're gone you know hopefully and what we inst

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ill for the next generation will be that of appreciation and

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love for these things that matter, because it's

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easy these days to forget that so if anything, I learned

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and want to continue and help instill that that, you know,

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even though it is an organic, you know, ever changing area

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that the heart of it has value and it's a historic one that

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tells a story and I think

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it's been cool to be able to protect that story and tell it

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.

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Thank you.

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I would just like to say on behalf of the whole board we

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have, it has been a pleasure to work with both of you and

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an honor to have learned from both of you. Thank you guys.

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Exactly.

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I'm going to do.

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I'm hoping to get.

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Thank you so much guys.

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Thank you guys really appreciate your work.

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So we're going to move on and consider.

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I have a two a.

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Which is to consider an HLC or historically marked

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Commission chair and vice chair positions with Peggy no

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longer being able to serve on the Commission chair is no

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longer filled so

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anybody have any.

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I'd like to nominate Alyssa Stevenson is our new chair

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person.

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Do you vote now.

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Okay, let's go ahead and any other nominations, do we need

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to do or do we have any nominations, other than myself.

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You can, I promise.

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Mayor James like I'm really professional over there.

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All right, let's go ahead and take a vote.

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All in favor.

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Aye.

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Any opposed.

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And then we also need to.

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The motion carries.

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If do we have any nominations for vice chair.

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I nominate Deb Conti as vice chairperson.

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Thank you.

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I would like to nominate Daniel boss alone for vice chair.

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Actually, I would like to withdraw my nomination because

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that really took me by surprise, but thank you very much. I

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actually this is my seventh year and I roll off in August.

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And I think we need to have someone else come on and Daniel

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, I would totally support that. Thank you very much.

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I'm so sorry.

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I know this totally took me totally by surprise. I wasn't

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even at the meeting last time.

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So thank you though very much.

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And Daniel, I think you'll make a great vice chair.

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Do you have any other nominations for vice chair?

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Do you accept formally? Okay.

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Any other.

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Do we have a second for Daniel?

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Second.

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And then let's go ahead and take a vote if we can.

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All in favor.

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Aye.

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unanimously.

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Any opposed.

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All right.

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Well, thank you guys.

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Daniel.

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Great. When I catch the flu from my 12 year olds.

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You will be much better at Robert's Rules of Order than I

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am.

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All right. Let's go ahead and move on to agenda item 2B.

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Receive a report and hold a discussion regarding the courth

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ouse square design standards.

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Long time coming.

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And it's going to be Scott McDonald.

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Thank you, Scott.

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Thank you. Yes, I'm Scott McDonald.

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I'm the director of development services for the city of

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Denton and I'm privileged to be here with you tonight.

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Absolutely love the fact that we're going to be able to

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talk a little bit about the square and where we're going

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with the square and what we're trying to achieve.

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All of you have within your packet some proposed design

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standards.

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So we're looking to create an environment in the square

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that we feel is consistent with the area.

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There were a number of things that we walked through as we

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came through this.

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And, you know, first and foremost is that we really have no

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design standards today.

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So anyone can ultimately, if it's not designated as a

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historic landmark, could go in and remove a building, build

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a building.

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And we really have very little say as to what that is.

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So that was really the generation or the creation of these

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proposed standards.

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And what we've done is we've went to a variety of groups to

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solicit feedback and input.

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And we started with the property owners.

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And we visited with the property owners in the square area.

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And I'm going to get a little bit into what that area

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consists of here shortly.

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But ultimately talking to those property owners, it was met

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with, you know, at least a welcome arms and an idea and a

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path and a direction to go.

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And so as we took that further, we met with a couple of the

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local groups, the downtown groups in particular.

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And the overwhelming consensus thus far, I guess I need

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that, is -- oh, it's not a clickable.

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>> No, I didn't put it there.

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You want that PowerPoint?

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>> Yeah, I want to get some of that.

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>> Let me see if I can get you this.

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>> So I can keep talking.

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>> Yeah.

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>> What we have is we have the central business district.

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So the central business district is a large area.

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And we recognize within the central business district that

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we have the square proper.

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And we're really trying to define what the area of the

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square should be.

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And it's very natural for us to look at the square and the

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facades that face the square.

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But many of those businesses or most of those businesses

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also have a rear facade.

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So what you've commonly heard is the Mew streets are the

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streets that are immediately behind the square.

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So we have a map that illustrates that the downtown

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standards would apply to the square

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and that street immediately behind that and those facades.

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And then as we transition out, there's probably less of an

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importance to follow that same scheme,

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but not to just neglect that entirely.

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So we're looking at how it is that we may have some design

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standards that may be more of an industrial feel as we head

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to the east.

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To the north and the south might be more residential or a

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different setting as well as to that of the west.

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So --

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>> Scott, I don't think I've got that.

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>> Oh, not in there?

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>> You should have it in your packet though.

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So you'll see it highlighted in colors.

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And so what staff has done is created a map to highlight

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the overall area that we had the several boundaries

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and really kind of landing on that central blue boundary as

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being what we would call the square or the downtown design

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standards of the square.

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The yellow was maybe that furthest point that may be

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affected, but as we visit with business owners in the local

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groups downtown,

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it seemed to be the consensus that we would just focus on

00:17:25.809 --> 00:17:29.109
the square being that most immediate action that we can

00:17:29.109 --> 00:17:29.519
take.

00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:34.329
And this meeting is just one more extension of that is to

00:17:34.329 --> 00:17:40.519
get feedback and get input recognizing that, of course,

00:17:40.519 --> 00:17:42.519
being a historic preservation board,

00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:46.599
this doesn't necessarily address historic preservation in

00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:49.519
the sense of having a historic district.

00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:51.519
But it is that groundwork.

00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:56.519
It is that first step in a place to identify an area.

00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:01.180
Come up with some timeless standards that ultimately that I

00:18:01.180 --> 00:18:03.519
think that we all can live with.

00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:05.970
>> So the maps, I'm sorry, Scott, we didn't bring the map

00:18:05.970 --> 00:18:08.819
with you, but everyone here knows the National Register

00:18:08.819 --> 00:18:09.519
District,

00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:12.829
which is the courthouse square and the buildings that face

00:18:12.829 --> 00:18:13.519
the square.

00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:16.950
And then I guess the backside of those buildings facing

00:18:16.950 --> 00:18:18.519
those other streets.

00:18:18.519 --> 00:18:20.519
>> We have an assured that.

00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:22.519
>> There you go.

00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:24.519
>> Yeah.

00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:26.519
>> Okay, and I'll keep talking.

00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:27.519
I'm sorry.

00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:28.519
>> I do.

00:18:28.519 --> 00:18:32.849
So you said that you were looking at putting guidelines in

00:18:32.849 --> 00:18:36.519
place without making it a specific district?

00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:39.519
>> No, we're going to identify a district.

00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:42.109
But we recognize that we have multiple districts within the

00:18:42.109 --> 00:18:43.519
central business district.

00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:45.519
So overlays, if you will.

00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:47.930
And we thought that the best course of action is if we

00:18:47.930 --> 00:18:50.519
could start somewhere and start at the epicenter.

00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:53.789
So we start at the hub of really where the square is and

00:18:53.789 --> 00:18:55.519
kind of work our way out.

00:18:55.519 --> 00:18:58.519
That's the catalyst for this.

00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:03.140
It is very obvious to many, whether you're from Denton or

00:19:03.140 --> 00:19:06.519
visiting Denton, that the square exists.

00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:10.019
And we thought that that was the easiest and really

00:19:10.019 --> 00:19:12.519
required immediate attention.

00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:15.519
So we know we have a building to be rebuilt.

00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:18.869
That building in whatever fashion or style today can be

00:19:18.869 --> 00:19:19.519
built.

00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:22.490
So now if we can come up with what those design standards

00:19:22.490 --> 00:19:25.009
might look like, we could shape it more so that it's

00:19:25.009 --> 00:19:25.519
timeless,

00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:30.180
it fits the character, the feel, and the fabric of what the

00:19:30.180 --> 00:19:31.519
square means.

00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:34.519
And so really that's the goals.

00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:35.519
Perfect.

00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:36.519
Okay.

00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:41.210
So if we look at the map, what we've heard for an

00:19:41.210 --> 00:19:44.869
overwhelming consensus is that the blue area be actually

00:19:44.869 --> 00:19:45.519
the square.

00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:49.589
And it would include the square and the streets behind the

00:19:49.589 --> 00:19:53.519
square that these design standards would apply to.

00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:57.589
And then as we transition out, it wouldn't necessarily

00:19:57.589 --> 00:20:00.519
apply to the streets following that.

00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:01.519
Okay.

00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:05.519
And as I said, some of the groups had some of the dialogue

00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:08.519
as far as this having more of an industrial feel,

00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:11.410
but we still need to have a balance as to how the two areas

00:20:11.410 --> 00:20:12.519
would tie together.

00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:16.210
And really looking at the central business district

00:20:16.210 --> 00:20:17.519
comprehensively,

00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:20.940
and maybe it's four or five different overlay districts

00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:23.519
within the central business district,

00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:26.519
but we can work through each of those areas independently

00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:30.829
and make sure that we have some sense of character in how

00:20:30.829 --> 00:20:32.519
it is that they tie together.

00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:34.519
Sure.

00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:38.230
As you look through the standards, is it safe to assume,

00:20:38.230 --> 00:20:42.130
has everybody had an opportunity to review these in advance

00:20:42.130 --> 00:20:43.519
of the meeting?

00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:47.500
So I don't want to try to bore you with details other than

00:20:47.500 --> 00:20:53.519
the fact that what this provides is a flexible means for

00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:54.519
building owners

00:20:54.519 --> 00:20:57.519
to make sure that they're responsible with construction,

00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:00.769
reconstruction, how it is that we look at signage, how we

00:21:00.769 --> 00:21:02.519
look at facades, streetscapes,

00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:08.519
and all of those amenities that make the square what it is.

00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:13.309
Within that, I think that we've had some great suggestions

00:21:13.309 --> 00:21:15.519
as we've worked through it,

00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:20.630
and overall feeling and recommendation to proceed with this

00:21:20.630 --> 00:21:23.519
and to proceed rather diligently.

00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:28.180
So we get it before P&Z and city council so that we can get

00:21:28.180 --> 00:21:30.519
this standard adopted.

00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:34.519
Not necessarily looking for action here this evening.

00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:38.849
Certainly was here to at least give you an overview, look

00:21:38.849 --> 00:21:41.519
for any questions that you might have,

00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:46.339
and ultimately try to garner a sense of support or where it

00:21:46.339 --> 00:21:50.609
is that we could stand to provide some further clarity or

00:21:50.609 --> 00:21:51.519
action.

00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:56.519
Just direction.

00:21:56.519 --> 00:21:57.519
Can we ask questions?

00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:59.519
Absolutely.

00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:01.519
Okay, so we adopt these.

00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:02.519
This is step one.

00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:05.519
Step two is actually a district designation.

00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:07.519
Is that correct?

00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:09.519
It would be a portion of this.

00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:13.680
So staff created the guidelines as really that starting

00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:16.519
point of what this would look like.

00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:20.640
We're soliciting public input as to where that district

00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:21.519
might fall.

00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:25.220
And so what we're hearing from the public is this blue area

00:22:25.220 --> 00:22:25.519
.

00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:28.900
And so what we would do is draft then what our proposal

00:22:28.900 --> 00:22:32.619
would be or the staff recommendations to take it before the

00:22:32.619 --> 00:22:33.519
bodies that it needs to go before,

00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:36.839
which would be the planning and zoning commission and city

00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:40.289
council for them then to designate that area and adopt the

00:22:40.289 --> 00:22:42.519
standards if they're so inclined.

00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:45.089
Okay, so if it's adopted by planning and zoning and city

00:22:45.089 --> 00:22:47.970
council, and I want to make Recycle Books orange, can I do

00:22:47.970 --> 00:22:48.519
that?

00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:49.519
I don't really.

00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:50.519
I don't own it.

00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:56.160
But I'm curious. Are these guidelines or are these binding

00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:56.519
rules for the owners?

00:22:56.519 --> 00:22:58.519
They're guidelines.

00:22:58.519 --> 00:23:02.519
So it is not designed to be overly prescriptive.

00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:05.250
And we didn't get into, you know, ultimately paint color

00:23:05.250 --> 00:23:07.819
specifically to say this is the palette of paint you can

00:23:07.819 --> 00:23:08.519
pick from.

00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:09.519
Right.

00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:12.829
So trying to balance property owners' rights with, you know

00:23:12.829 --> 00:23:15.519
, the community's desire for its character.

00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:18.950
So Roy, I really appreciate your question because it ties

00:23:18.950 --> 00:23:21.519
right into exactly what I wanted to know.

00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:25.170
Are we looking at standards that we're putting into the

00:23:25.170 --> 00:23:29.720
code or which become things that people have to follow or

00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:34.519
are we putting forth guidelines that can be ignored?

00:23:34.519 --> 00:23:37.769
Now, ultimately, another piece of this, and forgive me, I

00:23:37.769 --> 00:23:40.970
failed to mention this, is the certificate of appropriaten

00:23:40.970 --> 00:23:41.519
ess.

00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:42.519
Right.

00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:44.960
Ultimately, before somebody is able to do work on their

00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:47.460
building, they're going to come to the city for a

00:23:47.460 --> 00:23:49.519
certificate of appropriateness.

00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:52.450
That'll be approved or denied based upon the work that's

00:23:52.450 --> 00:23:53.519
being provided.

00:23:53.519 --> 00:23:57.279
Another recommendation that seems to be popular is that

00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:02.509
there is a board, whether it be this particular commission

00:24:02.509 --> 00:24:07.519
or if it's another body of the downtown business owners

00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:11.519
that would be serving in a capacity of an appeal process to

00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:11.519
that.

00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:14.269
So if staff determines that it doesn't meet the character

00:24:14.269 --> 00:24:17.910
or the design doesn't meet the guidelines, that the owner

00:24:17.910 --> 00:24:23.519
then could, or the applicant could then go to the board,

00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:27.099
ask for the board's evaluation of what it is they're

00:24:27.099 --> 00:24:28.519
proposing to do.

00:24:28.519 --> 00:24:32.869
So using the example of painting the building orange, if in

00:24:32.869 --> 00:24:37.069
fact that were in the guidelines and staff were to say that

00:24:37.069 --> 00:24:41.809
that doesn't warrant a certificate of appropriateness, they

00:24:41.809 --> 00:24:44.730
then have a body that they can go to then to appeal that

00:24:44.730 --> 00:24:45.519
decision.

00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:49.519
Okay.

00:24:49.519 --> 00:24:52.150
In order to have a certificate of appropriateness, it would

00:24:52.150 --> 00:24:53.519
have to be in the code, yes?

00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:54.519
Yes.

00:24:54.519 --> 00:24:58.420
So, and what I'm hearing is we're trying to accomplish

00:24:58.420 --> 00:25:02.349
putting on an overlay, historic overlay, with doing

00:25:02.349 --> 00:25:06.450
everything except walking around those wards and I'm not

00:25:06.450 --> 00:25:11.519
exactly sure what that's about and why, for example, COAs

00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:17.829
that would have to do with outside standards that would

00:25:17.829 --> 00:25:21.519
typically be reviewed by this commission would be thought

00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:23.519
of to go to some other place.

00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:26.579
I understand there might be other issues that downtown

00:25:26.579 --> 00:25:29.849
building owners would have that would have nothing to do,

00:25:29.849 --> 00:25:32.849
excuse me, with the purview of this commission, but

00:25:32.849 --> 00:25:35.519
certainly any kind of design guidelines.

00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:38.980
I mean, I love the way some of the things that I saw,

00:25:38.980 --> 00:25:43.119
including the contiguity and the need for uniform setbacks,

00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:44.519
things like that.

00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:47.589
Those are all things that are very much a purview of this

00:25:47.589 --> 00:25:48.519
commission.

00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:52.599
So I'm wondering, as we're thinking of this, why are we not

00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:56.299
using the words and why are we not thinking of, in that

00:25:56.299 --> 00:26:00.480
review process, that this commission would be the, to me,

00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.519
the natural one to go to?

00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:05.079
So I might be a little bit out of the loop here and

00:26:05.079 --> 00:26:08.109
everybody else may be more in the loop than myself, but

00:26:08.109 --> 00:26:09.519
that's my question.

00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:11.519
Well, and it hasn't been determined.

00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:14.490
So it's been both of those and that's why I mentioned the

00:26:14.490 --> 00:26:17.660
fact that whether it's this or another body of whether it's

00:26:17.660 --> 00:26:20.660
the stakeholders that are affected by that area, no

00:26:20.660 --> 00:26:24.519
different than if we were to say that we had an east side,

00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:26.769
whatever it is, would it be, again, the Historic Pres

00:26:26.769 --> 00:26:27.519
ervation Board?

00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:29.859
Would it be the same for the entire central business

00:26:29.859 --> 00:26:30.519
district?

00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:34.609
If we had four or five overlays or would it be someone that

00:26:34.609 --> 00:26:38.910
would be dealing with the design standards overall and not

00:26:38.910 --> 00:26:41.519
to suggest that it wouldn't be?

00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:44.150
And more so to your point that, again, from a historic

00:26:44.150 --> 00:26:47.210
designation standpoint, absolutely would be and really kind

00:26:47.210 --> 00:26:49.519
of the significance of where we're going.

00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:53.650
So absolutely not opposed and wasn't suggesting that it

00:26:53.650 --> 00:26:54.519
wasn't.

00:26:54.519 --> 00:26:57.750
It was just, that's the two comments that we have heard

00:26:57.750 --> 00:26:58.519
thus far.

00:26:58.519 --> 00:27:01.519
I will take that as again, looking for direction.

00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:04.250
I hear your point in this being that it should be

00:27:04.250 --> 00:27:05.519
absolutely here.

00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:08.480
Very much, especially since I think one of the things that

00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:11.140
this city has been very strong in doing is dealing and

00:27:11.140 --> 00:27:13.619
certainly Roman can speak to that having walked into this

00:27:13.619 --> 00:27:15.519
as our historic preservation officer.

00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:20.519
We've got very diverse historic neighborhoods.

00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:24.910
This is a very bottom up city in which every individual

00:27:24.910 --> 00:27:29.609
neighborhood or different overlay district is able to have

00:27:29.609 --> 00:27:35.000
autonomy and create their own, the things that they

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:39.779
themselves feel are important, all underneath a more rubric

00:27:39.779 --> 00:27:42.519
umbrella that this commission looks over.

00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:46.009
That's why I really see that and we've been wanting so much

00:27:46.009 --> 00:27:49.240
to work towards getting that overlay district on the

00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:51.519
downtown neighborhood center.

00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:55.990
I would think as we move forward, I would strongly urge

00:27:55.990 --> 00:27:59.930
anyone who's in decision making power to really move forth

00:27:59.930 --> 00:28:03.700
with that model that we already have that works so well in

00:28:03.700 --> 00:28:06.799
this city that we can both keep the integrity of the

00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:11.519
stakeholders in that district while making the big

00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:11.519
decisions

00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:14.799
for design guidelines, reviews, certificates of appropri

00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:18.009
ateness, that kind of stuff would fall perfectly under this

00:28:18.009 --> 00:28:20.779
commission's purview just like it does for any other

00:28:20.779 --> 00:28:23.519
historic neighborhood or historic overlay.

00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:27.230
I would be very much encouraging any from the top down to

00:28:27.230 --> 00:28:31.089
look at how well that's worked from our city because it's a

00:28:31.089 --> 00:28:34.880
very bottom up way of looking at it and it's been great for

00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:35.519
us.

00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:38.519
Absolutely. I support that.

00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:44.069
Just one caveat I throw in there and it's not a debate at

00:28:44.069 --> 00:28:48.829
all, is as you reference, historic significance and keeping

00:28:48.829 --> 00:28:52.519
in mind that these aren't necessarily historic guidelines

00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:55.519
because we've also been working with that.

00:28:55.519 --> 00:28:59.180
So just this commission would ultimately be looking at a

00:28:59.180 --> 00:29:03.150
set of guidelines, not necessarily in the realm of historic

00:29:03.150 --> 00:29:03.519
.

00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:08.950
That would be my only caveat to add. Sure, I share that.

00:29:08.950 --> 00:29:09.519
Thank you. Thank you.

00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:14.140
Daniel? Yeah, I would just echo that sentiment that to the

00:29:14.140 --> 00:29:18.500
extent there exists an HLC preservation districts and

00:29:18.500 --> 00:29:23.089
normal people with normal homes have to come to this body

00:29:23.089 --> 00:29:26.220
and ask for a COA, they don't like it appeal it to PNZ and

00:29:26.220 --> 00:29:27.519
then the council.

00:29:27.519 --> 00:29:30.029
I would, I would hope that the business owners on the

00:29:30.029 --> 00:29:32.750
square the landowners on the square would have a similar

00:29:32.750 --> 00:29:35.650
process. I think anything shorter that would ultimately be

00:29:35.650 --> 00:29:38.519
controversial. If there was an unpopular decision reached

00:29:38.519 --> 00:29:41.940
by a different sort of separate appellate process, that

00:29:41.940 --> 00:29:45.769
decision would meet with a lot of controversy around town

00:29:45.769 --> 00:29:48.960
if people felt like they were somehow had a special side

00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:52.450
track around the normal procedures that every other home

00:29:52.450 --> 00:29:55.519
owner has to follow and updating historic property.

00:29:55.519 --> 00:30:00.519
I know voting for the years for time. Okay.

00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:07.720
Your presentation left me with the feeling that this board

00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:15.049
was just deluded. It was one of many boards are many things

00:30:15.049 --> 00:30:21.950
that take a look and set the guidelines or say this or that

00:30:21.950 --> 00:30:22.519
.

00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:27.519
That's what I think.

00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:31.519
The way you described it, it works.

00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:36.519
The way you were describing it, it was very deluded.

00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:39.519
And so,

00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:43.200
and again, I'm all I'm trying to do is echo what feedback I

00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:47.230
've heard, not not making recommendation. So we drafted we

00:30:47.230 --> 00:30:51.029
drafted guidelines to get to get public feedback and we're

00:30:51.029 --> 00:30:55.190
going through the process of public feedback. And I'm echo

00:30:55.190 --> 00:30:58.519
ing what it is that I heard as we go through this process.

00:30:58.519 --> 00:30:59.519
Okay.

00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:01.519
Absolutely.

00:31:01.519 --> 00:31:02.519
Absolutely.

00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:09.740
I think substantively guidelines are great. I mean, just

00:31:09.740 --> 00:31:10.579
because I agree and sort of a huge lack of any kind of

00:31:10.579 --> 00:31:11.519
guidelines right now. These look fantastic.

00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:15.000
Yeah, just give me some guidelines. I think there are a few

00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:21.519
things that need to be maybe addressed in the guidelines.

00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:26.519
But not a lot, which is what's really nice.

00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:32.519
I, for example, if you're looking at the roof standards.

00:31:32.519 --> 00:31:36.009
It's very clear that things should be harmonious with

00:31:36.009 --> 00:31:39.519
existing buildings and overall building design.

00:31:39.519 --> 00:31:44.289
My question is some, we have a lot of wording in here that

00:31:44.289 --> 00:31:49.069
is basically in the character of surrounding buildings

00:31:49.069 --> 00:31:54.329
harmonious with, and I wonder, a is that too loose, because

00:31:54.329 --> 00:31:58.519
now I have to define what is harm harmonious.

00:31:58.519 --> 00:32:04.440
But my only other thing is making sure that we're being

00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:10.859
effective all the way through. If I'm looking at windows

00:32:10.859 --> 00:32:13.519
and it says windows are

00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:16.680
demonstration and glazing standards overly tinted

00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:19.980
reflective or opaque glass is not allowed on the ground

00:32:19.980 --> 00:32:23.410
floor of buildings, but it says nothing of the second and

00:32:23.410 --> 00:32:26.799
third floor. And when I imagine what I have what I see on

00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:30.519
the square right now and I see it quite often.

00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:35.180
I would, it, it's hard to think of the fact that someone

00:32:35.180 --> 00:32:39.839
would have clear glass on the first floor, but overly tint

00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:43.519
ed glass on the second third and fourth.

00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:48.789
I want to make sure that we're not being too loose in our

00:32:48.789 --> 00:32:54.759
guidelines, so that we can't help truly guide developers or

00:32:54.759 --> 00:33:00.140
business owners or building owners as they continue to

00:33:00.140 --> 00:33:06.519
design for the appropriateness of the downtown and keeping

00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:08.519
its historic character.

00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:13.180
Not that every facade will look historic, because this is

00:33:13.180 --> 00:33:17.490
not Disney World, but in keeping the character and the

00:33:17.490 --> 00:33:22.130
heart of of what is down there, which is completely unique

00:33:22.130 --> 00:33:23.519
to this area.

00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:28.029
And most main streets wish that they had the stock that we

00:33:28.029 --> 00:33:29.519
have downtown.

00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:33.869
And we need to make sure that we are preserving it and

00:33:33.869 --> 00:33:37.519
being careful in our guidelines that we can.

00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:39.519
Absolutely welcome it.

00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:41.930
Welcome any comments that you have as far as any specifics

00:33:41.930 --> 00:33:43.519
that you'd like to see addressed.

00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:49.829
I can say that the roofing, the roofing question was

00:33:49.829 --> 00:33:54.529
addressed by another person, and they indicated that you

00:33:54.529 --> 00:33:56.519
shouldn't see the roof.

00:33:56.519 --> 00:34:00.819
So they would like the design standards to be specific to

00:34:00.819 --> 00:34:04.920
say you do not see the roof of then you would see as a corn

00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:08.400
ice or the the fascia boards. So someone couldn't put a g

00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:10.320
abled roof or a shingle roof you see wouldn't be able to see

00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:10.519
that.

00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:16.159
So the only building on the square that you can currently

00:34:16.159 --> 00:34:22.039
see any portion of the roof is actually where JT Clothier's

00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:26.800
is right now. And it's, it's a facade. It's part of the

00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:27.519
facade where you see the roof line.

00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:31.489
And in this building you can see the Jackson Hagen sign.

00:34:31.489 --> 00:34:35.739
But that's, that's part of the, yeah, that's still the wall

00:34:35.739 --> 00:34:39.780
up there. It's the access to the roof. It's not the roof

00:34:39.780 --> 00:34:43.519
itself everywhere else up there has a flat roof.

00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:55.539
Unless I'm in the only other one that I can think of is, is

00:34:55.539 --> 00:35:01.519
it the Schmidt building.

00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:04.519
Schmidt building. Yeah.

00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:08.239
That one you can see the roof it's a metal roof, but it's

00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:11.969
one of the only ones and and that roof in no way looks obtr

00:35:11.969 --> 00:35:14.519
usive, but it is not a flat roof.

00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:19.139
And so I don't, I do like that. I think that yes, roofs

00:35:19.139 --> 00:35:23.690
probably should be flat and maybe that is something that we

00:35:23.690 --> 00:35:28.090
should look at but I do continue to like what I see here,

00:35:28.090 --> 00:35:32.780
where I'm seeing places where it says, find one, where it

00:35:32.780 --> 00:35:36.519
basically says, you know, everything is also under

00:35:36.519 --> 00:35:39.519
consideration individually if it seems appropriate.

00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:43.409
And, and I think that that's what we want and why we hired

00:35:43.409 --> 00:35:47.230
as a city, such an excellent HBO with such great skill as

00:35:47.230 --> 00:35:51.019
Roman has because I remember when we started looking at

00:35:51.019 --> 00:35:54.739
this and we went and talked to Guy and McKinney, and we

00:35:54.739 --> 00:35:58.070
went down to Dallas and I talked to some people in Fort

00:35:58.070 --> 00:35:58.519
Worth.

00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:02.159
And everybody said, you know, it's about being flexible it

00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:05.670
's about having strong guidelines, but also being able to

00:36:05.670 --> 00:36:09.170
say what's best for the building owner what's best for the

00:36:09.170 --> 00:36:12.670
business owner and what still makes sense for the developer

00:36:12.670 --> 00:36:15.659
overall, because you can't have guidelines that are so

00:36:15.659 --> 00:36:18.980
strong that they can't afford to build, but you can't have

00:36:18.980 --> 00:36:21.519
guidelines that are so weak that they put in something that

00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:24.920
looks completely out of character and takes away from the

00:36:24.920 --> 00:36:25.519
feeling.

00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:29.909
And I, I'm hoping that that's what we can gain here is a

00:36:29.909 --> 00:36:34.349
balance where we can address and tweak some of the small

00:36:34.349 --> 00:36:38.369
things, but that we can make sure that we are giving it the

00:36:38.369 --> 00:36:41.510
balance that it needs so that people aren't scared away

00:36:41.510 --> 00:36:45.469
from creating infill downtown, because we're about to have

00:36:45.469 --> 00:36:47.519
a lot of infill created.

00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:51.639
And absolutely our goal with doing this and, you know, we

00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:55.909
looked at other cities we looked at best practices. We didn

00:36:55.909 --> 00:36:58.519
't feel there was a need to recreate the wheel.

00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:02.059
We're really trying to solicit feedback as quickly as we

00:37:02.059 --> 00:37:05.039
can get as many groups as we can, so we can create

00:37:05.039 --> 00:37:08.489
something that we have formal that we can bring back and

00:37:08.489 --> 00:37:12.400
say, here's our recommendation this is what we're proposing

00:37:12.400 --> 00:37:16.519
to do, and to come to this body P and Z council and say,

00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:19.519
here's what we're wanting to do here's how we elect to do

00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:21.719
it and here are the, you know, the powers authorities and

00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:25.219
the rules that go along with it up until that point it was

00:37:25.219 --> 00:37:27.519
just truly floating a balloon out there, knowing that

00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:32.550
historic designation standards or specific code has been

00:37:32.550 --> 00:37:36.829
met with resistance. Right. We know that we have something

00:37:36.829 --> 00:37:39.980
that's eminent that needs to happen so how do we best do

00:37:39.980 --> 00:37:43.579
that. And this was just the simple way to do it and say,

00:37:43.579 --> 00:37:47.260
how can we get around find out what the flavor is through

00:37:47.260 --> 00:37:48.519
all of our electives.

00:37:48.519 --> 00:37:54.469
Okay, so I just want to be, I want to make sure I'm clear.

00:37:54.469 --> 00:37:59.659
So, if these guidelines. If they get passed on, and you get

00:37:59.659 --> 00:38:02.519
approved or whatever iteration of them.

00:38:02.519 --> 00:38:12.460
What then, is it part of code, is it, is this something

00:38:12.460 --> 00:38:19.519
that becomes part of the code itself. It, and I'll let

00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:19.519
Victor chime in on this but as far as, as far as I'm

00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:19.519
concerned it will be part of the code of ordinances.

00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:23.949
That it'll be a reference to a design standard if you will

00:38:23.949 --> 00:38:28.400
to say this is the document that we're using, how that's

00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:33.400
done by ordinance, I think is separate and I don't, I don't

00:38:33.400 --> 00:38:35.519
mean to put you in a spot.

00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:39.739
The conversation is there's a certificate of appropriaten

00:38:39.739 --> 00:38:43.969
ess or certain design standards and those design standards

00:38:43.969 --> 00:38:48.340
are codified in the code. It's my understanding that's that

00:38:48.340 --> 00:38:49.519
's correct. Correct. So this will be codified in the code.

00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:49.519
Yes. That's what I want to know.

00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:53.900
Or by reference. That's a, that's a recommendation from

00:38:53.900 --> 00:38:56.519
this, from this, from this commission. Yes.

00:38:56.519 --> 00:38:59.909
So there's just a couple of points I want to make the piggy

00:38:59.909 --> 00:39:03.480
back on that and also maybe perhaps a suggestion, because

00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:06.829
again I think since it is going to be codified in some form

00:39:06.829 --> 00:39:10.519
that this body is an integral part of that and if you'll

00:39:10.519 --> 00:39:13.519
look at the history and we just talked about it with Eric.

00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:16.550
Every step of the way of as we've moved forward talking

00:39:16.550 --> 00:39:19.800
about it a downtown overlay. It has been from whether it

00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:23.039
has come from just the board or working in tandem with city

00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:25.869
council, working every step of the way we've had a

00:39:25.869 --> 00:39:31.519
representative from the commission working at the onset

00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:34.519
creation of moving forward with this.

00:39:34.519 --> 00:39:37.360
So for example just a couple other small points, like I

00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:40.380
said, like Daniel said these are great, a great start.

00:39:40.380 --> 00:39:43.329
There's a couple of individual things that we could blitz

00:39:43.329 --> 00:39:46.409
you with that, you know, could make your head spin but that

00:39:46.409 --> 00:39:49.570
's why I think it would be important to have a

00:39:49.570 --> 00:39:50.519
representative.

00:39:50.519 --> 00:39:53.789
So for example, just on the window thing alone, everything

00:39:53.789 --> 00:39:56.760
that was said including making sure we've got plenty of

00:39:56.760 --> 00:39:59.780
them sounds wonderful. Now the only thing that I see is

00:39:59.780 --> 00:40:02.869
missing would be something for example about when we have

00:40:02.869 --> 00:40:06.519
windows that have original window glazing in them that we

00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:11.519
do, and take as many steps as possible to preserve those.

00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:15.010
Or for example and we just had this occur with the tragedy

00:40:15.010 --> 00:40:18.500
of the fire on the square. When something takes down an

00:40:18.500 --> 00:40:22.519
entire facade of a building. Do we have codified in their

00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:26.889
language like for every other overlay district that we need

00:40:26.889 --> 00:40:30.519
a COA for demolition that would have put

00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:33.769
in the process for what just occurred on the square that

00:40:33.769 --> 00:40:37.150
might have changed things I don't know we might have wound

00:40:37.150 --> 00:40:40.530
up in the same place it might have had a different response

00:40:40.530 --> 00:40:43.650
but this is such a unique commission and has so much to

00:40:43.650 --> 00:40:48.289
offer that I think anytime there's ever been a problem with

00:40:48.289 --> 00:40:51.880
the city in this area, it's because the commission has come

00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:56.519
in after decisions have been made, and then the commission

00:40:56.519 --> 00:40:59.519
tries to come in and make it fit and work.

00:40:59.519 --> 00:41:03.260
Cleanup. Every time we have been the strongest is when we

00:41:03.260 --> 00:41:06.800
've had a particular representative from the commission,

00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:09.909
working forward in tandem to make sure that just that

00:41:09.909 --> 00:41:13.179
little unique perspective from from the preservation

00:41:13.179 --> 00:41:17.289
perspective can be incorporated from the beginning and then

00:41:17.289 --> 00:41:20.519
it is a seamless process moving forward one

00:41:20.519 --> 00:41:23.400
does not have to take away from the other, and I would

00:41:23.400 --> 00:41:26.539
think that the person, you know, I would think we've got

00:41:26.539 --> 00:41:29.469
Alyssa here we've got Daniel here either one of them or

00:41:29.469 --> 00:41:32.489
anybody else on the board would be perfectly capable of

00:41:32.489 --> 00:41:36.519
doing that and just giving just a little guidance, just

00:41:36.519 --> 00:41:40.260
from the ground floor on these issues, and just would just

00:41:40.260 --> 00:41:40.519
make everything

00:41:40.519 --> 00:41:44.519
we're talking about just a little bit stronger.

00:41:44.519 --> 00:41:47.519
That makes sense.

00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:50.519
Well, you can answer.

00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:54.239
Well, and I guess I just would have happy to hear, and

00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:58.230
again, not that you're speaking for the rest of the board

00:41:58.230 --> 00:42:02.250
but the reality of creating another board creates a whole

00:42:02.250 --> 00:42:06.099
series of issues so much rather house it something that

00:42:06.099 --> 00:42:07.519
exists today.

00:42:07.519 --> 00:42:10.710
So, absolutely no problem with that I wasn't going to

00:42:10.710 --> 00:42:14.329
presume or assign that I'm just, again soliciting input and

00:42:14.329 --> 00:42:17.730
feedback and the certificate of appropriateness was was

00:42:17.730 --> 00:42:21.070
again, even one of those options whether or not we would

00:42:21.070 --> 00:42:25.519
even do that or have a set of standards and, and again, how

00:42:25.519 --> 00:42:27.519
far we want to take this down the line.

00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:31.409
Absolutely support that the work that the HLC does. This is

00:42:31.409 --> 00:42:34.929
really designed on that and again from just from the mere

00:42:34.929 --> 00:42:38.519
fact of that where do we start where to be, we begin.

00:42:38.519 --> 00:42:41.760
This is a very simple start. And then as we can look at

00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:44.849
then the historic preservation aspects, and then look at

00:42:44.849 --> 00:42:47.800
whether there's another code design that's required or

00:42:47.800 --> 00:42:50.760
where we go and how we transition this across the central

00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:52.519
business district.

00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:57.179
Couple of questions in the blue zone, and just a guess how

00:42:57.179 --> 00:43:02.519
many buildings in the blue zone or less than 100 years old.

00:43:02.519 --> 00:43:06.519
Are less than 100 years old.

00:43:06.519 --> 00:43:09.519
In the blue in the blue zone.

00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:12.519
Well,

00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:16.519
the Sherman building is less than 100 years old.

00:43:16.519 --> 00:43:20.519
LSA is less than 100 built years old.

00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:25.519
The bank buildings over 100. Everything else on that side.

00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:31.360
Whatever goes into the new infill for for many mobile be

00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:35.070
less than 100. The things that got hit by fire, really, are

00:43:35.070 --> 00:43:38.849
less than 100 years old, but virtually everything in there

00:43:38.849 --> 00:43:41.519
that wasn't burned up is, is still original.

00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:51.519
The vast majority is under.

00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:57.099
Yeah, most of our, our side is older than 1918 mine was

00:43:57.099 --> 00:43:58.519
1890.

00:43:58.519 --> 00:44:03.039
I think ours was second question is, in your mind, does

00:44:03.039 --> 00:44:07.739
this preclude the historic district designation down the

00:44:07.739 --> 00:44:08.519
road.

00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:13.179
No, sir, it is not intended actually probably more so to

00:44:13.179 --> 00:44:17.400
compliment. I mean, ultimately, by virtue of if we can

00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:20.920
create something that is that we can define as it is an

00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:21.519
area.

00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:25.440
Then we have standards to at least try to manage timeless,

00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:29.199
it'd be much simpler to create that historic district to

00:44:29.199 --> 00:44:31.519
say that's really what this is.

00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:38.519
But the time required to do that would be pretty immense.

00:44:38.519 --> 00:44:40.400
And it's a whole different conversation. Yes, historic

00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:42.340
district. We're really sort of riding herd over rules they

00:44:42.340 --> 00:44:45.519
choose for themselves, even if the blue area were eight

00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:48.519
historic districts, they could eat east side rules.

00:44:48.519 --> 00:44:52.260
So in other words, there's flexibility there with historic

00:44:52.260 --> 00:44:56.139
districts to do that if I understand it right. Absolutely.

00:44:56.139 --> 00:44:59.639
But, but your point is so perfectly made and so timely and

00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:01.519
politically very wise.

00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:06.429
It's been very difficult to get this accomplished in a very

00:45:06.429 --> 00:45:11.429
direct way, starting with calling it a historic overlay if

00:45:11.429 --> 00:45:16.139
we could get the guidelines in place, get it codified in

00:45:16.139 --> 00:45:18.519
the DDC or DCC or whichever.

00:45:18.519 --> 00:45:31.699
Thank you. And like I said, keep a representative in on the

00:45:31.699 --> 00:45:31.940
ground floor of how that language actually goes in, then we

00:45:31.940 --> 00:45:32.159
have actually accomplished what we've been trying to

00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:32.380
accomplish all along we can call it whatever we want after

00:45:32.380 --> 00:45:34.519
the fact but I really like your thinking as far as that

00:45:34.519 --> 00:45:34.519
goes.

00:45:34.519 --> 00:45:37.519
And I think it's very smart.

00:45:37.519 --> 00:45:40.519
And might actually get us to accomplish this.

00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:46.230
I was hearing the comment about the fire that was on the

00:45:46.230 --> 00:45:49.519
square and the demolition.

00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:51.519
It was done.

00:45:51.519 --> 00:45:56.420
However, and without a COA right it didn't need to see

00:45:56.420 --> 00:45:59.519
without a COA right again when you do this.

00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:03.239
That there is these are the standards, because there's good

00:46:03.239 --> 00:46:03.519
.

00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:08.179
There but actually this these guidelines, there's going to

00:46:08.179 --> 00:46:10.519
be more problems on the square.

00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:14.090
You know whatever you don't which is right, it's going to

00:46:14.090 --> 00:46:17.519
go my goodness, a building on the squares burning.

00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:20.639
And it's going to be all what are we going to do all they

00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:23.519
just tore down and ran away and did nothing.

00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:28.940
So, correct the problem. Yes, now. Yes, let's do it again

00:46:28.940 --> 00:46:29.519
later.

00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:32.980
No, I do want to actually piggyback on what you're saying

00:46:32.980 --> 00:46:36.019
is I actually don't see anything in the guidelines

00:46:36.019 --> 00:46:39.519
regarding demolition or demolition by neglect.

00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:40.519
Right.

00:46:40.519 --> 00:46:43.519
And that really is everywhere else.

00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:46.710
And I would like to ask, is that doing intent on adding

00:46:46.710 --> 00:46:48.519
that into the guidelines.

00:46:48.519 --> 00:46:50.519
Well, it's been part of the feedback.

00:46:50.519 --> 00:46:53.869
So a certificate of appropriateness is going to be for

00:46:53.869 --> 00:46:57.519
really anything that would require a building permit.

00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:01.519
Okay, so anything other than ordinary repairs.

00:47:01.519 --> 00:47:04.940
So an ordinary repair is if I had wooden steps, I'm not

00:47:04.940 --> 00:47:06.519
replacing the steps.

00:47:06.519 --> 00:47:10.519
I'm replacing a piece of wood, right.

00:47:10.519 --> 00:47:13.519
Replacing a trim board around a window.

00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:15.760
But if I choose to change the storefront, I need a building

00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:17.519
permit in order to get a building permit.

00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:19.519
I need to get a certificate of appropriateness.

00:47:19.519 --> 00:47:22.519
No different than with demolition.

00:47:22.519 --> 00:47:24.519
So demolition would follow a similar path.

00:47:24.519 --> 00:47:28.320
If I'm going to demolish, I can opt, you're saying disaster

00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:32.460
, as a building owner today, I can choose to tear down a

00:47:32.460 --> 00:47:33.519
building.

00:47:33.519 --> 00:47:36.519
So what is going to prevent me from doing that?

00:47:36.519 --> 00:47:37.519
Nothing.

00:47:37.519 --> 00:47:39.809
But ultimately with the design standards, that's part of

00:47:39.809 --> 00:47:40.519
this process.

00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:46.519
Now, I can't tell you to the depth of what that might mean.

00:47:46.519 --> 00:47:49.519
That would require a little more vetting.

00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:53.090
But ultimately, the rules are what we create the rules to

00:47:53.090 --> 00:47:53.519
be.

00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:57.400
So however the process works, whatever council in turn

00:47:57.400 --> 00:48:00.519
decides to do, that's what the rules are.

00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:04.199
So short answer, yes, demolition would be part of the

00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:08.400
certificate of appropriateness on the basis that a building

00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:09.519
permit is required.

00:48:09.519 --> 00:48:12.139
And that's how we would tie the certificate of appropriaten

00:48:12.139 --> 00:48:12.519
ess.

00:48:12.519 --> 00:48:16.409
What about also demolition by the black considering the

00:48:16.409 --> 00:48:20.519
fine arts theater and just the renovation there?

00:48:20.519 --> 00:48:23.329
I don't think many buildings other than that one are at

00:48:23.329 --> 00:48:24.519
risk on the square.

00:48:24.519 --> 00:48:30.449
But that one sure would have been well served by a demol

00:48:30.449 --> 00:48:35.519
ition by neglect statute 10 years ago.

00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:39.289
Yeah, ultimately, yeah, I don't have a good answer for that

00:48:39.289 --> 00:48:40.519
specifically.

00:48:40.519 --> 00:48:45.519
But again, I know that's my whole purpose in being here.

00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:48.670
I wasn't like here wasn't here as an action item because I

00:48:48.670 --> 00:48:52.809
'd rather bring you something more concrete and ultimately

00:48:52.809 --> 00:48:54.519
go down that path.

00:48:54.519 --> 00:48:57.670
My charge in this is that if I'm going to do it, I need to

00:48:57.670 --> 00:48:59.519
do this very aggressively.

00:48:59.519 --> 00:49:00.519
We need to do this quickly.

00:49:00.519 --> 00:49:03.460
And the only way I can do that is to get before as many

00:49:03.460 --> 00:49:06.760
audiences as I can at least get an understanding of where

00:49:06.760 --> 00:49:07.519
it's at.

00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:10.170
This is probably the easiest audience to have this

00:49:10.170 --> 00:49:12.940
conversation with just because you understand the

00:49:12.940 --> 00:49:14.519
importance and the significance.

00:49:14.519 --> 00:49:18.909
So for also, I mean, we do need to consider demolition by

00:49:18.909 --> 00:49:22.659
neglect and what happens whenever people do decide to demol

00:49:22.659 --> 00:49:23.519
ish building.

00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:28.550
And I think if it is downtown, if it is historic, it needs

00:49:28.550 --> 00:49:30.519
to come before HLC.

00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:31.519
Absolutely.

00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:37.110
But I also wonder about just neglect if people if the

00:49:37.110 --> 00:49:43.739
standards are falling behind because someone is neglecting

00:49:43.739 --> 00:49:48.519
their building and is remaining vacant.

00:49:48.519 --> 00:49:53.679
Can we is there something that can be included in the

00:49:53.679 --> 00:49:59.519
guidelines to address neglect in a historic building?

00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:02.519
Yes. Short answer.

00:50:02.519 --> 00:50:04.519
Ultimately, you can do that.

00:50:04.519 --> 00:50:07.519
You can do that with it with a nonhistoric building.

00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:09.519
That's at the that's at the will of the council.

00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:14.260
So if council likes to have a vacant building ordinance and

00:50:14.260 --> 00:50:19.519
requirements that go along with that, certainly.

00:50:19.519 --> 00:50:22.519
I only err on the side of that.

00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:25.159
As we look at this in baby steps and say that what we're

00:50:25.159 --> 00:50:27.519
attempting to do is to start with something.

00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:28.519
Yes.

00:50:28.519 --> 00:50:31.869
And to manage it again, to manage it and then figure out,

00:50:31.869 --> 00:50:35.630
you know, the reality is, is that we'll we'll create this

00:50:35.630 --> 00:50:36.519
program.

00:50:36.519 --> 00:50:39.519
And do we have to review this in six months or a year?

00:50:39.519 --> 00:50:41.519
I absolutely would think so.

00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:44.139
I don't think we're going to get it 100 percent out of the

00:50:44.139 --> 00:50:44.519
box.

00:50:44.519 --> 00:50:48.460
Right. But having something rather than having nothing and

00:50:48.460 --> 00:50:51.590
then capitalize upon the successes and figure out what our

00:50:51.590 --> 00:50:52.519
failures may be.

00:50:52.519 --> 00:50:55.789
And then we we we, you know, make the corrections as we

00:50:55.789 --> 00:50:56.519
need to.

00:50:56.519 --> 00:51:00.659
And Scott, I think you're going to find that everybody on

00:51:00.659 --> 00:51:03.019
this board and I shouldn't speak for all of us, but we

00:51:03.019 --> 00:51:05.519
agree with that sentiment.

00:51:05.519 --> 00:51:07.519
We have been wanting something for a long time.

00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:11.590
I personally live downtown and have watched a lot of

00:51:11.590 --> 00:51:15.960
changes over the last several years and have sat on this

00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:18.519
board for the majority of that.

00:51:18.519 --> 00:51:22.570
And we've been pushing for this, not because we're trying

00:51:22.570 --> 00:51:26.349
to take over Denton, but because we want to protect the

00:51:26.349 --> 00:51:27.519
character.

00:51:27.519 --> 00:51:30.519
And I agree. Having something is much better than nothing.

00:51:30.519 --> 00:51:33.679
And if we can set up something and bring it under a process

00:51:33.679 --> 00:51:37.639
of review for six months out, a year out, a year and a half

00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:41.519
until we get it just right and make those small adjustments

00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:43.519
as we see fit from there.

00:51:43.519 --> 00:51:47.059
Find out, you know, what what holes we've left because we

00:51:47.059 --> 00:51:50.519
're bound to leave some.

00:51:50.519 --> 00:51:52.519
All right. We support that.

00:51:52.519 --> 00:51:55.789
We want that. I know I would know as far as these

00:51:55.789 --> 00:51:59.929
guidelines and what it looks like procedurally, the way I

00:51:59.929 --> 00:52:04.739
imagine it might work is you codify these guidelines by

00:52:04.739 --> 00:52:09.130
reference to some sort of external thing that you can

00:52:09.130 --> 00:52:11.519
update regularly.

00:52:11.519 --> 00:52:16.210
I know I would be happy to apply more stringent guidelines

00:52:16.210 --> 00:52:20.650
in a broader context in my role as a commissioner here to

00:52:20.650 --> 00:52:22.519
serve the square.

00:52:22.519 --> 00:52:24.519
I think a lot of us would be.

00:52:24.519 --> 00:52:27.250
And, you know, it would just be we're looking at the

00:52:27.250 --> 00:52:28.519
overall ordinance.

00:52:28.519 --> 00:52:31.599
I don't know what the state of that is, but sort of maybe

00:52:31.599 --> 00:52:35.409
maybe that part of the ordinance could use some tweaking to

00:52:35.409 --> 00:52:40.179
say this is how the HLC applies guidelines that are cod

00:52:40.179 --> 00:52:40.519
ified or referenced.

00:52:40.519 --> 00:52:44.099
To propose projects and, you know, maybe we can all have

00:52:44.099 --> 00:52:47.920
some sort of additional training additional workload to get

00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:51.590
familiar with maybe beyond just historic guidelines so we

00:52:51.590 --> 00:52:55.400
can confidently apply these guidelines well the extent that

00:52:55.400 --> 00:52:58.519
they go beyond just historic preservation.

00:52:58.519 --> 00:53:01.519
Absolutely appreciate that.

00:53:01.519 --> 00:53:11.519
I'd be happy to do the extra work.

00:53:11.519 --> 00:53:16.800
Where we approach the owners and say, we're going to target

00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:21.650
specific and it voted by PNC or City Council, where the

00:53:21.650 --> 00:53:27.150
city actually suspends them from the tax rolls. During this

00:53:27.150 --> 00:53:32.519
three year period when they agree to work with HLC or PNC.

00:53:32.519 --> 00:53:35.949
That's what gets them in the front door when you want to be

00:53:35.949 --> 00:53:39.489
a part of this program because you pay no property taxes to

00:53:39.489 --> 00:53:43.409
the city or county or board. Do you consider the sort of a

00:53:43.409 --> 00:53:46.809
more progressive approach to getting people interested in

00:53:46.809 --> 00:53:50.519
participating in something like that.

00:53:50.519 --> 00:53:54.489
I can't I can't speak to that specifically I can tell you

00:53:54.489 --> 00:53:58.579
that you have a management team that's very progressive

00:53:58.579 --> 00:54:02.570
that they're looking at any number of things that would

00:54:02.570 --> 00:54:06.820
benefit the citizens of Denton to include the square, and

00:54:06.820 --> 00:54:10.519
some of those conversations are solid waste.

00:54:10.519 --> 00:54:13.889
So how we deal with the dumpsters on the square and looking

00:54:13.889 --> 00:54:17.579
at a more common approach. The idea of providing incentives

00:54:17.579 --> 00:54:21.519
for fire suppression systems throughout the entire square.

00:54:21.519 --> 00:54:29.090
So, I can't answer that question I don't know that I would

00:54:29.090 --> 00:54:35.869
dare to other than the fact to say that there are some

00:54:35.869 --> 00:54:43.769
programs that are available out there today that could help

00:54:43.769 --> 00:54:44.519
.

00:54:44.519 --> 00:54:48.780
Okay, we need to be really diligent to do this and make

00:54:48.780 --> 00:54:52.519
sure that everything is followed.

00:54:52.519 --> 00:54:56.789
So I really think the fire reading that ordinance I think

00:54:56.789 --> 00:54:59.519
that should have come before us.

00:54:59.519 --> 00:55:03.519
And I've talked to several other people and they agreed.

00:55:03.519 --> 00:55:15.519
And it just went away. And you can build new, but it's not

00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:15.519
the same as old. I mean the Sherman building looks okay but

00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:15.519
it's not. It's not the same.

00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:20.260
And we looked very carefully at that I assure you that it

00:55:20.260 --> 00:55:25.159
had it been a requirement to come before this body we would

00:55:25.159 --> 00:55:29.349
have made certain that it did. So I, it was very

00:55:29.349 --> 00:55:34.519
challenging and Roman Roman and I struggled through that

00:55:34.519 --> 00:55:36.519
very process.

00:55:36.519 --> 00:55:45.519
And reading it and having other people read it. They said,

00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:45.519
yeah, come to you all. And I just think that if we're going

00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:45.519
to do this we need to do it right.

00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:50.289
I think, and speaking to that, what are we looking at as

00:55:50.289 --> 00:55:55.519
far as repercussions to violations of these guidelines.

00:55:55.519 --> 00:56:00.179
What gives them the teeth that they need in order to be

00:56:00.179 --> 00:56:03.519
carried through and not violated.

00:56:03.519 --> 00:56:07.519
Like any other provision of our municipal code.

00:56:07.519 --> 00:56:11.800
If it's, if it is a violation of our municipal code it's

00:56:11.800 --> 00:56:16.650
punishable of municipal court of $500 per occurrence per

00:56:16.650 --> 00:56:19.519
violation unless it's life safety.

00:56:19.519 --> 00:56:24.519
Classy.

00:56:24.519 --> 00:56:33.070
And the other relief in any kind of violation of our code

00:56:33.070 --> 00:56:36.389
is injunctive relief so stopping somebody from doing

00:56:36.389 --> 00:56:39.550
something that's the city could file an action in district

00:56:39.550 --> 00:56:42.449
court to stop somebody from doing something if it was

00:56:42.449 --> 00:56:43.519
appropriate.

00:56:43.519 --> 00:56:48.269
But, correctly, I may have misheard, but I thought this was

00:56:48.269 --> 00:56:50.519
not going to be part of the code.

00:56:50.519 --> 00:56:52.840
Well, I think that was some of the discussion going on

00:56:52.840 --> 00:56:55.039
whether it would be part of the code or not part of the

00:56:55.039 --> 00:56:55.519
code.

00:56:55.519 --> 00:56:59.519
Okay, I'll ask again. Is it going to be part of the code?

00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:02.599
What I think the discussion here is getting insight and if

00:57:02.599 --> 00:57:05.690
that's the recommendation to make it part of the code that

00:57:05.690 --> 00:57:09.519
you would make it part of the code or not if you just want

00:57:09.519 --> 00:57:11.519
the alternatives that Scott was recommending.

00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:20.519
And that would be different. And if it is not part of the

00:57:20.519 --> 00:57:20.519
code, does it have any teeth?

00:57:20.519 --> 00:57:25.179
I'm sure that with the with planning and legal we put as

00:57:25.179 --> 00:57:30.519
much teeth as we could to it.

00:57:30.519 --> 00:57:35.429
We certainly don't want to create a set of standards that

00:57:35.429 --> 00:57:36.519
are useless.

00:57:36.519 --> 00:57:41.320
Without coming with a preconceived notion of what it is or

00:57:41.320 --> 00:57:45.920
what I've heard many times from different groups is that

00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:49.260
here's the city again ram rotting something down our throat

00:57:49.260 --> 00:57:49.519
.

00:57:49.519 --> 00:57:53.909
They're just giving us what it is. I'm truly soliciting

00:57:53.909 --> 00:57:58.380
feedback and I'm hearing and it's not really any different

00:57:58.380 --> 00:58:02.000
than I've heard from the other groups is you want something

00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:05.519
that's substantive, flexible for property owners,

00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:07.920
something that's going to provide for protection of the

00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:10.519
character and truly to be enforceable in order to do that,

00:58:10.519 --> 00:58:12.519
then it has to be part of the code.

00:58:12.519 --> 00:58:18.550
Yes. So in the context that it is much simpler to walk

00:58:18.550 --> 00:58:20.519
through the process.

00:58:20.519 --> 00:58:24.139
And again, the failure to obtain a certificate of appropri

00:58:24.139 --> 00:58:27.519
ateness is an action that that it violates the code.

00:58:27.519 --> 00:58:30.829
So that would have to be an ordinance that would say a

00:58:30.829 --> 00:58:34.849
certificate of appropriateness is required and no different

00:58:34.849 --> 00:58:38.630
than following some of our drainage manuals or our roadway

00:58:38.630 --> 00:58:43.949
construction manuals, water, wastewater, very much in the

00:58:43.949 --> 00:58:45.519
same fashion.

00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:50.519
So I agree.

00:58:50.519 --> 00:58:57.650
So it's like you said this is not an actionable item. So I

00:58:57.650 --> 00:58:59.519
think you've heard everything that we have to say.

00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:03.059
I think I've heard I've heard some support and I'd like to

00:59:03.059 --> 00:59:06.519
think that I'll be back before this body very soon.

00:59:06.519 --> 00:59:11.269
That's what I was going to ask is when can we expect an

00:59:11.269 --> 00:59:16.639
update and when can we expect to move forward as as quickly

00:59:16.639 --> 00:59:19.519
as I can possibly move there.

00:59:19.519 --> 00:59:23.519
And timeline on that.

00:59:23.519 --> 00:59:28.179
No, not necessarily. And I say that I will say that I don't

00:59:28.179 --> 00:59:32.349
intend on this being a six month process. I know you've

00:59:32.349 --> 00:59:34.519
been dealing with it for years.

00:59:34.519 --> 00:59:38.519
I suspect that this would be completed this spring.

00:59:38.519 --> 00:59:43.000
So summer ends in June or begins in June. So I would I

00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:48.050
would really like to be through this process by then. I don

00:59:48.050 --> 00:59:50.519
't know that. Okay. But that can be my I can dare to dream.

00:59:50.519 --> 00:59:55.519
So we're shooting for June, hopefully by August.

00:59:55.519 --> 00:59:58.489
No, really, I plan on being through the process by June,

00:59:58.489 --> 01:00:01.469
meaning that I would be before council excellent in a short

01:00:01.469 --> 01:00:02.519
period of time.

01:00:02.519 --> 01:00:06.869
So, again, I just need to solicit the feedback from the

01:00:06.869 --> 01:00:11.050
public to garner what I can put together what it is that I

01:00:11.050 --> 01:00:15.650
believe to be the recommendations to take forward to those

01:00:15.650 --> 01:00:16.519
bodies.

01:00:16.519 --> 01:00:20.440
And I think, you know, through this, I've heard that I just

01:00:20.440 --> 01:00:23.920
really need a work session with with P and Z and council

01:00:23.920 --> 01:00:27.480
and get their direction and craft and take it right back

01:00:27.480 --> 01:00:28.519
through.

01:00:28.519 --> 01:00:31.500
I'm sorry I had been out for just a minute, but I'm hearing

01:00:31.500 --> 01:00:34.730
that that's a very quick timeline. Would it be appropriate

01:00:34.730 --> 01:00:37.309
for us then to ask, would there be someone who could

01:00:37.309 --> 01:00:40.130
perhaps write a little summary as we're looking through

01:00:40.130 --> 01:00:44.119
this, perhaps some additions that could be made just from

01:00:44.119 --> 01:00:47.250
an HLC perspective that we could then submit to you as you

01:00:47.250 --> 01:00:50.519
're moving through to finalize what you're writing.

01:00:50.519 --> 01:00:55.139
Absolutely. I'm happy to take any comments Roman Roman has

01:00:55.139 --> 01:00:59.099
been working very hard with Sean on this. Ron is very

01:00:59.099 --> 01:01:02.389
familiar with it. So really any of our planning staff, you

01:01:02.389 --> 01:01:04.519
can you can provide the email paper.

01:01:04.519 --> 01:01:05.519
I'm so sorry.

01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:06.519
Call us.

01:01:06.519 --> 01:01:07.519
Excuse me.

01:01:07.519 --> 01:01:11.219
This never happens. And I don't know how to make it shut up

01:01:11.219 --> 01:01:11.519
.

01:01:11.519 --> 01:01:14.519
I can't make it shut up.

01:01:14.519 --> 01:01:17.519
I'm sorry.

01:01:17.519 --> 01:01:20.519
Please help me with this.

01:01:20.519 --> 01:01:24.519
So, I can tell you that after.

01:01:24.519 --> 01:01:26.929
I think every meeting that I've had I've met with

01:01:26.929 --> 01:01:30.019
individuals that have a vested interest in it. Happy to

01:01:30.019 --> 01:01:33.449
meet with anyone individually, or again any of any of our

01:01:33.449 --> 01:01:36.519
staff that are that are engaged in the process.

01:01:36.519 --> 01:01:40.590
If there is anything specific that we see in here, small

01:01:40.590 --> 01:01:45.010
details that might need updating before this moves onward,

01:01:45.010 --> 01:01:48.519
we should pass it to Roman, pass it to Roman.

01:01:48.519 --> 01:01:49.519
Sure.

01:01:49.519 --> 01:01:56.809
Email it over to Roman in the next week week guys can we, I

01:01:56.809 --> 01:01:58.519
mean, yeah.

01:01:58.519 --> 01:02:04.449
Cool. All right. I know that's fast. I know you're in the

01:02:04.449 --> 01:02:06.519
middle of tax season.

01:02:06.519 --> 01:02:11.519
But we've waited six years we've got to get this thing.

01:02:11.519 --> 01:02:14.280
Well, and keep in mind no matter what you what you do in

01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:17.289
the next week doesn't mean that it's over so it's going to,

01:02:17.289 --> 01:02:20.519
it's ultimately going to have to go before public hearings.

01:02:20.519 --> 01:02:24.010
And, and for me I think this should be a living breathing

01:02:24.010 --> 01:02:27.739
document anyhow not to say that we're creating the ultimate

01:02:27.739 --> 01:02:30.500
end all. So, we create something and then we look at it

01:02:30.500 --> 01:02:32.909
review it and make sure that what we have is relevant and

01:02:32.909 --> 01:02:34.519
is working as we designed it to.

01:02:34.519 --> 01:02:36.519
Absolutely. It's just a step.

01:02:36.519 --> 01:02:40.119
Thank you very much for your time. Thank you so much, Scott

01:02:40.119 --> 01:02:40.519
.

01:02:40.519 --> 01:02:42.519
We appreciate it.

01:02:42.519 --> 01:02:47.150
All right. Let's move on to item to see consider approval

01:02:47.150 --> 01:02:51.519
of the Historic Landmark Commission meeting minutes.

01:02:51.519 --> 01:02:54.519
Move we approve the minutes is offered.

01:02:54.519 --> 01:02:57.519
Second. Great.

01:02:57.519 --> 01:02:59.519
So moved.

01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:03.429
Do we need to take a vote on that. We do. Let's take a vote

01:03:03.429 --> 01:03:06.519
on the millions. All in favor. Aye.

01:03:06.519 --> 01:03:07.519
Aye.

01:03:07.519 --> 01:03:10.519
Passes unanimously.

01:03:10.519 --> 01:03:17.519
All right. Let's move on to item 2D.

01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:31.519
The Historic Landmark Commission project matrix.

01:03:31.519 --> 01:03:34.820
Chair, this is just an opportunity to go over the matrix

01:03:34.820 --> 01:03:38.050
but also hear from the commission if there are any other

01:03:38.050 --> 01:03:41.349
items that you would like to see in a future agenda item or

01:03:41.349 --> 01:03:44.519
would like to see staff bring back either in a memo.

01:03:44.519 --> 01:03:47.519
However, we can address it that way as well.

01:03:47.519 --> 01:03:49.519
Great.

01:03:49.519 --> 01:03:52.139
Do we have anything for consideration to add to the matrix,

01:03:52.139 --> 01:03:52.519
Daniel?

01:03:52.519 --> 01:03:57.550
Yeah. Sort of on a, I think a more successful note. Does

01:03:57.550 --> 01:04:00.929
anybody know anything about that warehouse that's being

01:04:00.929 --> 01:04:04.219
redeveloped on like the far east part of Oak Street right

01:04:04.219 --> 01:04:06.519
up against the railroad tracks?

01:04:06.519 --> 01:04:10.110
If those people would like to come and tell us about their

01:04:10.110 --> 01:04:12.519
awesome project that I love to death.

01:04:12.519 --> 01:04:14.519
You mean the one right next to Twice is Nice?

01:04:14.519 --> 01:04:15.519
Yeah.

01:04:15.519 --> 01:04:20.369
The event planners. They have created an events hall and

01:04:20.369 --> 01:04:24.519
they've done a beautiful job with the build out of that.

01:04:24.519 --> 01:04:27.519
Yeah, they should come and brag about it if they want.

01:04:27.519 --> 01:04:28.519
Yes.

01:04:28.519 --> 01:04:29.519
If anybody can extend an invite.

01:04:29.519 --> 01:04:31.929
We can reach out to them. I've got, I think I might have

01:04:31.929 --> 01:04:33.519
their contact information.

01:04:33.519 --> 01:04:35.989
If you don't, I can get it. Mike's daughter is getting

01:04:35.989 --> 01:04:37.519
married there in September.

01:04:37.519 --> 01:04:39.519
Perfect. Go for it. Awesome.

01:04:39.519 --> 01:04:41.519
But I believe Tim Beatty is the one doing that, right?

01:04:41.519 --> 01:04:43.519
I'm not sure. But it's going to be gorgeous.

01:04:43.519 --> 01:04:45.519
I do the tax return.

01:04:45.519 --> 01:04:48.519
We're all connected.

01:04:48.519 --> 01:04:49.519
He's a good friend.

01:04:49.519 --> 01:04:56.519
Roman, when is the next HLC meeting?

01:04:56.519 --> 01:04:57.519
Is it not in May?

01:04:57.519 --> 01:04:58.519
Should be May.

01:04:58.519 --> 01:05:01.630
I just want to date so you can, when you reach May 14th. So

01:05:01.630 --> 01:05:03.519
when we reach out, we'll make sure.

01:05:03.519 --> 01:05:05.519
Thank you so much, Danny.

01:05:05.519 --> 01:05:10.320
Yeah, when they started that, I arrived here right when

01:05:10.320 --> 01:05:13.800
they were going to be getting started and tried to talk

01:05:13.800 --> 01:05:14.519
them into doing the tax credit program.

01:05:14.519 --> 01:05:17.519
But they already had it kind of all mapped out.

01:05:17.519 --> 01:05:20.500
Well, and it's great because that got handed over into

01:05:20.500 --> 01:05:22.519
those hands right as you got here.

01:05:22.519 --> 01:05:25.739
But before that, for about two years, there were these guys

01:05:25.739 --> 01:05:28.920
who wanted to turn it into lofts and they just got lost in

01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:30.519
the construction of it.

01:05:30.519 --> 01:05:34.539
They couldn't, they could only play a short game, not the

01:05:34.539 --> 01:05:35.519
long game.

01:05:35.519 --> 01:05:39.519
Which happens to a lot of people in historic preservation.

01:05:39.519 --> 01:05:45.530
On the matrix here, we do have the RFP item under ongoing

01:05:45.530 --> 01:05:48.519
items educate citizens regarding incentives.

01:05:48.519 --> 01:05:53.260
We have the RFP out. I think it has another week before the

01:05:53.260 --> 01:05:55.519
submissions have to be due.

01:05:55.519 --> 01:05:58.460
So that's going to allow us to have community meetings that

01:05:58.460 --> 01:06:00.519
involves a lot of community meetings.

01:06:00.519 --> 01:06:03.260
That's going to be an opportunity to educate citizens and

01:06:03.260 --> 01:06:05.940
hopefully for citizens to educate us about what kind of

01:06:05.940 --> 01:06:07.519
incentives they want to see.

01:06:07.519 --> 01:06:10.519
So it gets to Roy's question there.

01:06:10.519 --> 01:06:14.570
And that can become part of the new city of Denton historic

01:06:14.570 --> 01:06:18.519
preservation plan to replace the 1986 one.

01:06:18.519 --> 01:06:22.010
So that but I'm hoping that document is a concise document

01:06:22.010 --> 01:06:25.739
that deals strictly with with with preservation planning in

01:06:25.739 --> 01:06:26.519
Denton.

01:06:26.519 --> 01:06:31.519
It doesn't get into the surveying and those things.

01:06:31.519 --> 01:06:37.519
There was one other item.

01:06:37.519 --> 01:06:42.940
Did the the matrix doesn't have the Denton the historic

01:06:42.940 --> 01:06:46.519
preservation code updates that Daniel mentioned.

01:06:46.519 --> 01:06:50.119
Those those ordinance revisions are going to be

01:06:50.119 --> 01:06:54.440
incorporated into the Denton development code when that

01:06:54.440 --> 01:06:57.940
goes forward, which I'm not sure how far away, but they

01:06:57.940 --> 01:06:59.519
will be integrated as a part of that.

01:06:59.519 --> 01:07:02.469
And so there'll be an opportunity for more community input

01:07:02.469 --> 01:07:04.519
as that final document goes through.

01:07:04.519 --> 01:07:07.519
But the edits have been pretty much.

01:07:07.519 --> 01:07:11.150
And so the Bell Avenue historic. Yes, that was hung up for

01:07:11.150 --> 01:07:11.519
that, too.

01:07:11.519 --> 01:07:13.519
So we don't know when that's going to be finalized.

01:07:13.519 --> 01:07:16.519
All that has a city council, right? It's gone through us.

01:07:16.519 --> 01:07:19.519
Yes, our that portion of that will be integrated.

01:07:19.519 --> 01:07:28.519
Do we know how many months more of that?

01:07:28.519 --> 01:07:32.090
We suspect that the development code will probably be

01:07:32.090 --> 01:07:35.650
sometime in August to have its final adoption through

01:07:35.650 --> 01:07:36.519
council.

01:07:36.519 --> 01:07:41.179
So we're in the process next week will be rolling out the

01:07:41.179 --> 01:07:45.840
last sub chapters of the proposed development code and the

01:07:45.840 --> 01:07:46.519
zoning map.

01:07:46.519 --> 01:07:50.130
So we'll be walking through the entirety of what this

01:07:50.130 --> 01:07:52.519
document is going to look like.

01:07:52.519 --> 01:07:56.300
We'll take the public feedback will consolidate into a

01:07:56.300 --> 01:07:59.679
single document and then we'll have it out for the public

01:07:59.679 --> 01:08:00.519
for a month.

01:08:00.519 --> 01:08:05.349
And then it'll go before the variety of bodies. So PNZ and

01:08:05.349 --> 01:08:07.519
council for readings.

01:08:07.519 --> 01:08:11.130
And then, like I say, probably sometime in August, it

01:08:11.130 --> 01:08:16.909
should be if it's councils will approved and become then

01:08:16.909 --> 01:08:19.520
the development code.

01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:22.520
I believe the historic resolution. Yes.

01:08:22.520 --> 01:08:25.880
One one of the sub chapters within the development code is

01:08:25.880 --> 01:08:28.520
historic preservation. Yes.

01:08:28.520 --> 01:08:37.520
All so in its entirety. Thank you so much.

01:08:37.520 --> 01:08:42.520
Is there anything else on here that we need to discuss?

01:08:42.520 --> 01:08:47.520
Is there anything that needs to be added?

01:08:47.520 --> 01:08:53.520
Okay.

01:08:53.520 --> 01:08:58.520
And that should conclude our meeting movie adjourned.

01:08:58.520 --> 01:09:04.520
Second, we conclude the meeting at six forty five.

01:09:04.520 --> 01:09:07.520
Digity dog.

01:09:07.520 --> 01:09:10.520
Great picture in the paper Roman.