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And we're going to start are we going to start with pledge

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yes, we're going to start with the pledge of allegiance

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Roy would you mind starting us off?

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Honors Texas flag I pledge allegiance to the Texas

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One State Indivisible

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One State Indivisible I'm sorry

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One State Indivisible

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You got it

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I fell apart I got distracted

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I had it right here the cheat sheet

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You forgot to move it

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No that's state pledge

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So chair I would ask if we might be able to take things out

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of order and move to the concluding items

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We have a couple of visitors here

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Yes please

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So in the concluding items what I wanted to do today is

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recognize that Peggy Riddle has moved her homestead back to

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Dallas I believe

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And she's no longer going to be the chair that's why we

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have the item on the agenda to replace the chair which is

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irreplaceable as she is

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And we also have Eric Polito visiting today who hasn't been

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on the commission since I think maybe November

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It was way back there

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And you know I'm sure you all have worked with them longer

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than I have

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But it's just been you know their leadership has been

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invaluable

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And we have an item on the agenda today about downtown

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district design guidelines

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I've looked back in the old minutes and Eric is from day

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one in the door six years of asking for something about

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some protection of downtown

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And I mean Peggy is just amazing to work with her

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leadership her demeanor everything has just been really

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incredible

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And so I have a couple of gifts for you all not really

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gifts but just a little lottery

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I made these plaques let me just give you a little history

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you know I can't do anything that I have plaques

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Now sorry these aren't Denton properties on your left right

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here is the what was called the Dew Drop Inn through the 50

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s and 60s a little one room hotel

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But originally it was this homestead built about 1909 by

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Andrew Goldhammer and the building during Hurricane Beulah

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It took Beulah took a couple of big hurricanes that came

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through and you noticed that the roof lost its its gable

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and the pitch and it became a flat roof

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And boy that was a really bad decision by that Landmark

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Commission because by the time I got to Brownsville the

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entire middle of that house was completely rotted out

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I have a video I was going to share with you but I don't

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want to go too long but I had to the I had to really defend

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letting that demolition permit go through

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So I made a lot of videos of stepping through the floor

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literally falling through the floor of the middle of that

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house and the city had acquired it and it's it's now gone

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But I went through and got the window and door trim and so

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these plaques this side of this plaque is window and door

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trim

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Now I learned something this week that I didn't know and

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when you're talking about old growth lumber what I learned

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there was a window specialist who gave a long lecture on

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this would

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And you know he said that that if it's soft wood it's

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probably the trees that were felled at the time were

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possibly five to seven hundred years old when we were

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cutting down that old growth lumber

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And if it was a I'm sorry that's the hardwood and if it was

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a softwood they could have been a thousand years old if we

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were filling those those trees

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And another thing about this property it is Brownsville

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with lots of Catholicism is a big deal so the guy there in

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that picture is leaning kneeling and praying in front of a

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This was a Chinese tallow that was in front of the house

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that he thought they thought they saw the Virgin Mary in

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that tree and so for years people would come and kneel in

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front of that house and that was part of its history

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The other wood on this plaque here this was the first house

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that I had to that building that got taken down right after

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I graduated from architecture school came down to Browns

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ville on your left is the is a house that was still standing

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when I came

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I researched the house and determined it was actually from

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before 1860 and if you look on your right this is a post

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card of someone down around the turn of the century coming

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down to Brownsville and you see it says Mexican homes Rio

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Grande City

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Rio Grande Valley Texas and you see on the right behind the

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home a more contemporary structure with milled wood and a

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composition roof actually looks like there but these that

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ched roofs still existed and they existed quite late and so

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here's an 1894 sandborne map and on this map you notice

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that a diagonal it says Mexican dwellings and then that

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circle around 910 well 910 is that building on the left so

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I was really angry when

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actually the building official on his own just nothing to

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scoff at the building official without any permits or

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anything took that one down on the left because the mayor

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had gotten upset and wanted some cleaning up done around

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the neighborhood and so we lost that that structure but the

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wood I went over and they had already crunched most of it

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up but I have a few planks of the of the wood that's in

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that building that's what's on the left side and think that

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's all I have on these plaques but I wanted to present these

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to y'all and if you have anything else to say if you want

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these are

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needs

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so I'm still working for Ditton County so I'm here as a

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resource I enjoy working with each and every one of you and

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Eric he and I were both on the same page with the downtown

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and I'm still gonna be there for the downtown once y'all

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get it all worked out here so thank you very much.

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Thank you.

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You can still say something.

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I just want to say, well thank you. First off I appreciate

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the recognition.

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You know, this HLC commission has been really a treat to me

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I joined.

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And the city started writing about my band and I thought

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man that's that's pretty cool you know I maybe I should get

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to know somebody down there at the city level and see what

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they're up to and not be this this this dichotomy or schism

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that exists of where the artists

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are in the city and, you know, never this to meet.

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I was married down at 1910 West Oak down the store.

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And there's so much that I've learned and the value that I

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really gained into our different districts and particularly

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the downtown district where I have businesses there and

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obviously, you know, really feel that there's an inherent

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value that's palpable.

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And that became such a desire to protect that because you

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know these places these buildings. They're going to be

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there after we're gone you know hopefully and what we inst

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ill for the next generation will be that of appreciation and

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love for these things that matter, because it's

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easy these days to forget that so if anything, I learned

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and want to continue and help instill that that, you know,

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even though it is an organic, you know, ever changing area

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that the heart of it has value and it's a historic one that

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tells a story and I think

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it's been cool to be able to protect that story and tell it

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.

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Thank you.

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I would just like to say on behalf of the whole board we

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have, it has been a pleasure to work with both of you and

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an honor to have learned from both of you. Thank you guys.

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Exactly.

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I'm going to do.

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I'm hoping to get.

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Thank you so much guys.

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Thank you guys really appreciate your work.

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So we're going to move on and consider.

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I have a two a.

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Which is to consider an HLC or historically marked

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Commission chair and vice chair positions with Peggy no

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longer being able to serve on the Commission chair is no

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longer filled so

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anybody have any.

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I'd like to nominate Alyssa Stevenson is our new chair

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person.

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Do you vote now.

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Okay, let's go ahead and any other nominations, do we need

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to do or do we have any nominations, other than myself.

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You can, I promise.

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Mayor James like I'm really professional over there.

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All right, let's go ahead and take a vote.

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All in favor.

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Aye.

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Any opposed.

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And then we also need to.

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The motion carries.

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If do we have any nominations for vice chair.

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I nominate Deb Conti as vice chairperson.

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Thank you.

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I would like to nominate Daniel boss alone for vice chair.

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Actually, I would like to withdraw my nomination because

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that really took me by surprise, but thank you very much. I

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actually this is my seventh year and I roll off in August.

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And I think we need to have someone else come on and Daniel

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, I would totally support that. Thank you very much.

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I'm so sorry.

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I know this totally took me totally by surprise. I wasn't

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even at the meeting last time.

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So thank you though very much.

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And Daniel, I think you'll make a great vice chair.

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Do you have any other nominations for vice chair?

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Do you accept formally? Okay.

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Any other.

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Do we have a second for Daniel?

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Second.

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And then let's go ahead and take a vote if we can.

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All in favor.

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Aye.

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unanimously.

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Any opposed.

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All right.

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Well, thank you guys.

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Daniel.

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Great. When I catch the flu from my 12 year olds.

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You will be much better at Robert's Rules of Order than I

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am.

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All right. Let's go ahead and move on to agenda item 2B.

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Receive a report and hold a discussion regarding the courth

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ouse square design standards.

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Long time coming.

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And it's going to be Scott McDonald.

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Thank you, Scott.

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Thank you. Yes, I'm Scott McDonald.

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I'm the director of development services for the city of

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Denton and I'm privileged to be here with you tonight.

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Absolutely love the fact that we're going to be able to

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talk a little bit about the square and where we're going

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with the square and what we're trying to achieve.

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All of you have within your packet some proposed design

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standards.

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So we're looking to create an environment in the square

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that we feel is consistent with the area.

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There were a number of things that we walked through as we

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came through this.

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And, you know, first and foremost is that we really have no

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design standards today.

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So anyone can ultimately, if it's not designated as a

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historic landmark, could go in and remove a building, build

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a building.

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And we really have very little say as to what that is.

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So that was really the generation or the creation of these

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proposed standards.

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And what we've done is we've went to a variety of groups to

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solicit feedback and input.

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And we started with the property owners.

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And we visited with the property owners in the square area.

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And I'm going to get a little bit into what that area

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consists of here shortly.

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But ultimately talking to those property owners, it was met

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with, you know, at least a welcome arms and an idea and a

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path and a direction to go.

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And so as we took that further, we met with a couple of the

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local groups, the downtown groups in particular.

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And the overwhelming consensus thus far, I guess I need

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that, is -- oh, it's not a clickable.

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00:15:04,519 --> 00:15:06,519
>> No, I didn't put it there.

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You want that PowerPoint?

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>> Yeah, I want to get some of that.

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>> Let me see if I can get you this.

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>> So I can keep talking.

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>> Yeah.

249
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>> What we have is we have the central business district.

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So the central business district is a large area.

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And we recognize within the central business district that

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we have the square proper.

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And we're really trying to define what the area of the

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square should be.

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And it's very natural for us to look at the square and the

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facades that face the square.

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But many of those businesses or most of those businesses

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also have a rear facade.

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So what you've commonly heard is the Mew streets are the

260
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,519
streets that are immediately behind the square.

261
00:15:56,519 --> 00:16:02,679
So we have a map that illustrates that the downtown

262
00:16:02,679 --> 00:16:06,519
standards would apply to the square

263
00:16:06,519 --> 00:16:11,519
and that street immediately behind that and those facades.

264
00:16:11,519 --> 00:16:14,480
And then as we transition out, there's probably less of an

265
00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,519
importance to follow that same scheme,

266
00:16:16,519 --> 00:16:20,519
but not to just neglect that entirely.

267
00:16:20,519 --> 00:16:23,789
So we're looking at how it is that we may have some design

268
00:16:23,789 --> 00:16:28,009
standards that may be more of an industrial feel as we head

269
00:16:28,009 --> 00:16:29,519
to the east.

270
00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:32,850
To the north and the south might be more residential or a

271
00:16:32,850 --> 00:16:37,519
different setting as well as to that of the west.

272
00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:40,519
So --

273
00:16:40,519 --> 00:16:41,519
>> Scott, I don't think I've got that.

274
00:16:41,519 --> 00:16:42,519
>> Oh, not in there?

275
00:16:42,519 --> 00:16:46,519
>> You should have it in your packet though.

276
00:16:46,519 --> 00:16:50,519
So you'll see it highlighted in colors.

277
00:16:50,519 --> 00:16:58,059
And so what staff has done is created a map to highlight

278
00:16:58,059 --> 00:17:03,519
the overall area that we had the several boundaries

279
00:17:03,519 --> 00:17:07,170
and really kind of landing on that central blue boundary as

280
00:17:07,170 --> 00:17:10,710
being what we would call the square or the downtown design

281
00:17:10,710 --> 00:17:12,519
standards of the square.

282
00:17:12,519 --> 00:17:16,529
The yellow was maybe that furthest point that may be

283
00:17:16,529 --> 00:17:20,130
affected, but as we visit with business owners in the local

284
00:17:20,130 --> 00:17:22,519
groups downtown,

285
00:17:22,519 --> 00:17:25,809
it seemed to be the consensus that we would just focus on

286
00:17:25,809 --> 00:17:29,109
the square being that most immediate action that we can

287
00:17:29,109 --> 00:17:29,519
take.

288
00:17:29,519 --> 00:17:34,329
And this meeting is just one more extension of that is to

289
00:17:34,329 --> 00:17:40,519
get feedback and get input recognizing that, of course,

290
00:17:40,519 --> 00:17:42,519
being a historic preservation board,

291
00:17:42,519 --> 00:17:46,599
this doesn't necessarily address historic preservation in

292
00:17:46,599 --> 00:17:49,519
the sense of having a historic district.

293
00:17:49,519 --> 00:17:51,519
But it is that groundwork.

294
00:17:51,519 --> 00:17:56,519
It is that first step in a place to identify an area.

295
00:17:56,519 --> 00:18:01,180
Come up with some timeless standards that ultimately that I

296
00:18:01,180 --> 00:18:03,519
think that we all can live with.

297
00:18:03,519 --> 00:18:05,970
>> So the maps, I'm sorry, Scott, we didn't bring the map

298
00:18:05,970 --> 00:18:08,819
with you, but everyone here knows the National Register

299
00:18:08,819 --> 00:18:09,519
District,

300
00:18:09,519 --> 00:18:12,829
which is the courthouse square and the buildings that face

301
00:18:12,829 --> 00:18:13,519
the square.

302
00:18:13,519 --> 00:18:16,950
And then I guess the backside of those buildings facing

303
00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:18,519
those other streets.

304
00:18:18,519 --> 00:18:20,519
>> We have an assured that.

305
00:18:20,519 --> 00:18:22,519
>> There you go.

306
00:18:22,519 --> 00:18:24,519
>> Yeah.

307
00:18:24,519 --> 00:18:26,519
>> Okay, and I'll keep talking.

308
00:18:26,519 --> 00:18:27,519
I'm sorry.

309
00:18:27,519 --> 00:18:28,519
>> I do.

310
00:18:28,519 --> 00:18:32,849
So you said that you were looking at putting guidelines in

311
00:18:32,849 --> 00:18:36,519
place without making it a specific district?

312
00:18:36,519 --> 00:18:39,519
>> No, we're going to identify a district.

313
00:18:39,519 --> 00:18:42,109
But we recognize that we have multiple districts within the

314
00:18:42,109 --> 00:18:43,519
central business district.

315
00:18:43,519 --> 00:18:45,519
So overlays, if you will.

316
00:18:45,519 --> 00:18:47,930
And we thought that the best course of action is if we

317
00:18:47,930 --> 00:18:50,519
could start somewhere and start at the epicenter.

318
00:18:50,519 --> 00:18:53,789
So we start at the hub of really where the square is and

319
00:18:53,789 --> 00:18:55,519
kind of work our way out.

320
00:18:55,519 --> 00:18:58,519
That's the catalyst for this.

321
00:18:58,519 --> 00:19:03,140
It is very obvious to many, whether you're from Denton or

322
00:19:03,140 --> 00:19:06,519
visiting Denton, that the square exists.

323
00:19:06,519 --> 00:19:10,019
And we thought that that was the easiest and really

324
00:19:10,019 --> 00:19:12,519
required immediate attention.

325
00:19:12,519 --> 00:19:15,519
So we know we have a building to be rebuilt.

326
00:19:15,519 --> 00:19:18,869
That building in whatever fashion or style today can be

327
00:19:18,869 --> 00:19:19,519
built.

328
00:19:19,519 --> 00:19:22,490
So now if we can come up with what those design standards

329
00:19:22,490 --> 00:19:25,009
might look like, we could shape it more so that it's

330
00:19:25,009 --> 00:19:25,519
timeless,

331
00:19:25,519 --> 00:19:30,180
it fits the character, the feel, and the fabric of what the

332
00:19:30,180 --> 00:19:31,519
square means.

333
00:19:31,519 --> 00:19:34,519
And so really that's the goals.

334
00:19:34,519 --> 00:19:35,519
Perfect.

335
00:19:35,519 --> 00:19:36,519
Okay.

336
00:19:36,519 --> 00:19:41,210
So if we look at the map, what we've heard for an

337
00:19:41,210 --> 00:19:44,869
overwhelming consensus is that the blue area be actually

338
00:19:44,869 --> 00:19:45,519
the square.

339
00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:49,589
And it would include the square and the streets behind the

340
00:19:49,589 --> 00:19:53,519
square that these design standards would apply to.

341
00:19:53,519 --> 00:19:57,589
And then as we transition out, it wouldn't necessarily

342
00:19:57,589 --> 00:20:00,519
apply to the streets following that.

343
00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:01,519
Okay.

344
00:20:01,519 --> 00:20:05,519
And as I said, some of the groups had some of the dialogue

345
00:20:05,519 --> 00:20:08,519
as far as this having more of an industrial feel,

346
00:20:08,519 --> 00:20:11,410
but we still need to have a balance as to how the two areas

347
00:20:11,410 --> 00:20:12,519
would tie together.

348
00:20:12,519 --> 00:20:16,210
And really looking at the central business district

349
00:20:16,210 --> 00:20:17,519
comprehensively,

350
00:20:17,519 --> 00:20:20,940
and maybe it's four or five different overlay districts

351
00:20:20,940 --> 00:20:23,519
within the central business district,

352
00:20:23,519 --> 00:20:26,519
but we can work through each of those areas independently

353
00:20:26,519 --> 00:20:30,829
and make sure that we have some sense of character in how

354
00:20:30,829 --> 00:20:32,519
it is that they tie together.

355
00:20:32,519 --> 00:20:34,519
Sure.

356
00:20:34,519 --> 00:20:38,230
As you look through the standards, is it safe to assume,

357
00:20:38,230 --> 00:20:42,130
has everybody had an opportunity to review these in advance

358
00:20:42,130 --> 00:20:43,519
of the meeting?

359
00:20:43,519 --> 00:20:47,500
So I don't want to try to bore you with details other than

360
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:53,519
the fact that what this provides is a flexible means for

361
00:20:53,519 --> 00:20:54,519
building owners

362
00:20:54,519 --> 00:20:57,519
to make sure that they're responsible with construction,

363
00:20:57,519 --> 00:21:00,769
reconstruction, how it is that we look at signage, how we

364
00:21:00,769 --> 00:21:02,519
look at facades, streetscapes,

365
00:21:02,519 --> 00:21:08,519
and all of those amenities that make the square what it is.

366
00:21:08,519 --> 00:21:13,309
Within that, I think that we've had some great suggestions

367
00:21:13,309 --> 00:21:15,519
as we've worked through it,

368
00:21:15,519 --> 00:21:20,630
and overall feeling and recommendation to proceed with this

369
00:21:20,630 --> 00:21:23,519
and to proceed rather diligently.

370
00:21:23,519 --> 00:21:28,180
So we get it before P&Z and city council so that we can get

371
00:21:28,180 --> 00:21:30,519
this standard adopted.

372
00:21:30,519 --> 00:21:34,519
Not necessarily looking for action here this evening.

373
00:21:34,519 --> 00:21:38,849
Certainly was here to at least give you an overview, look

374
00:21:38,849 --> 00:21:41,519
for any questions that you might have,

375
00:21:41,519 --> 00:21:46,339
and ultimately try to garner a sense of support or where it

376
00:21:46,339 --> 00:21:50,609
is that we could stand to provide some further clarity or

377
00:21:50,609 --> 00:21:51,519
action.

378
00:21:51,519 --> 00:21:56,519
Just direction.

379
00:21:56,519 --> 00:21:57,519
Can we ask questions?

380
00:21:57,519 --> 00:21:59,519
Absolutely.

381
00:21:59,519 --> 00:22:01,519
Okay, so we adopt these.

382
00:22:01,519 --> 00:22:02,519
This is step one.

383
00:22:02,519 --> 00:22:05,519
Step two is actually a district designation.

384
00:22:05,519 --> 00:22:07,519
Is that correct?

385
00:22:07,519 --> 00:22:09,519
It would be a portion of this.

386
00:22:09,519 --> 00:22:13,680
So staff created the guidelines as really that starting

387
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,519
point of what this would look like.

388
00:22:16,519 --> 00:22:20,640
We're soliciting public input as to where that district

389
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:21,519
might fall.

390
00:22:21,519 --> 00:22:25,220
And so what we're hearing from the public is this blue area

391
00:22:25,220 --> 00:22:25,519
.

392
00:22:25,519 --> 00:22:28,900
And so what we would do is draft then what our proposal

393
00:22:28,900 --> 00:22:32,619
would be or the staff recommendations to take it before the

394
00:22:32,619 --> 00:22:33,519
bodies that it needs to go before,

395
00:22:33,519 --> 00:22:36,839
which would be the planning and zoning commission and city

396
00:22:36,839 --> 00:22:40,289
council for them then to designate that area and adopt the

397
00:22:40,289 --> 00:22:42,519
standards if they're so inclined.

398
00:22:42,519 --> 00:22:45,089
Okay, so if it's adopted by planning and zoning and city

399
00:22:45,089 --> 00:22:47,970
council, and I want to make Recycle Books orange, can I do

400
00:22:47,970 --> 00:22:48,519
that?

401
00:22:48,519 --> 00:22:49,519
I don't really.

402
00:22:49,519 --> 00:22:50,519
I don't own it.

403
00:22:50,519 --> 00:22:56,160
But I'm curious. Are these guidelines or are these binding

404
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:56,519
rules for the owners?

405
00:22:56,519 --> 00:22:58,519
They're guidelines.

406
00:22:58,519 --> 00:23:02,519
So it is not designed to be overly prescriptive.

407
00:23:02,519 --> 00:23:05,250
And we didn't get into, you know, ultimately paint color

408
00:23:05,250 --> 00:23:07,819
specifically to say this is the palette of paint you can

409
00:23:07,819 --> 00:23:08,519
pick from.

410
00:23:08,519 --> 00:23:09,519
Right.

411
00:23:09,519 --> 00:23:12,829
So trying to balance property owners' rights with, you know

412
00:23:12,829 --> 00:23:15,519
, the community's desire for its character.

413
00:23:15,519 --> 00:23:18,950
So Roy, I really appreciate your question because it ties

414
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:21,519
right into exactly what I wanted to know.

415
00:23:21,519 --> 00:23:25,170
Are we looking at standards that we're putting into the

416
00:23:25,170 --> 00:23:29,720
code or which become things that people have to follow or

417
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:34,519
are we putting forth guidelines that can be ignored?

418
00:23:34,519 --> 00:23:37,769
Now, ultimately, another piece of this, and forgive me, I

419
00:23:37,769 --> 00:23:40,970
failed to mention this, is the certificate of appropriaten

420
00:23:40,970 --> 00:23:41,519
ess.

421
00:23:41,519 --> 00:23:42,519
Right.

422
00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:44,960
Ultimately, before somebody is able to do work on their

423
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,460
building, they're going to come to the city for a

424
00:23:47,460 --> 00:23:49,519
certificate of appropriateness.

425
00:23:49,519 --> 00:23:52,450
That'll be approved or denied based upon the work that's

426
00:23:52,450 --> 00:23:53,519
being provided.

427
00:23:53,519 --> 00:23:57,279
Another recommendation that seems to be popular is that

428
00:23:57,279 --> 00:24:02,509
there is a board, whether it be this particular commission

429
00:24:02,509 --> 00:24:07,519
or if it's another body of the downtown business owners

430
00:24:07,519 --> 00:24:11,519
that would be serving in a capacity of an appeal process to

431
00:24:11,519 --> 00:24:11,519
that.

432
00:24:11,519 --> 00:24:14,269
So if staff determines that it doesn't meet the character

433
00:24:14,269 --> 00:24:17,910
or the design doesn't meet the guidelines, that the owner

434
00:24:17,910 --> 00:24:23,519
then could, or the applicant could then go to the board,

435
00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:27,099
ask for the board's evaluation of what it is they're

436
00:24:27,099 --> 00:24:28,519
proposing to do.

437
00:24:28,519 --> 00:24:32,869
So using the example of painting the building orange, if in

438
00:24:32,869 --> 00:24:37,069
fact that were in the guidelines and staff were to say that

439
00:24:37,069 --> 00:24:41,809
that doesn't warrant a certificate of appropriateness, they

440
00:24:41,809 --> 00:24:44,730
then have a body that they can go to then to appeal that

441
00:24:44,730 --> 00:24:45,519
decision.

442
00:24:45,519 --> 00:24:49,519
Okay.

443
00:24:49,519 --> 00:24:52,150
In order to have a certificate of appropriateness, it would

444
00:24:52,150 --> 00:24:53,519
have to be in the code, yes?

445
00:24:53,519 --> 00:24:54,519
Yes.

446
00:24:54,519 --> 00:24:58,420
So, and what I'm hearing is we're trying to accomplish

447
00:24:58,420 --> 00:25:02,349
putting on an overlay, historic overlay, with doing

448
00:25:02,349 --> 00:25:06,450
everything except walking around those wards and I'm not

449
00:25:06,450 --> 00:25:11,519
exactly sure what that's about and why, for example, COAs

450
00:25:11,519 --> 00:25:17,829
that would have to do with outside standards that would

451
00:25:17,829 --> 00:25:21,519
typically be reviewed by this commission would be thought

452
00:25:21,519 --> 00:25:23,519
of to go to some other place.

453
00:25:23,519 --> 00:25:26,579
I understand there might be other issues that downtown

454
00:25:26,579 --> 00:25:29,849
building owners would have that would have nothing to do,

455
00:25:29,849 --> 00:25:32,849
excuse me, with the purview of this commission, but

456
00:25:32,849 --> 00:25:35,519
certainly any kind of design guidelines.

457
00:25:35,519 --> 00:25:38,980
I mean, I love the way some of the things that I saw,

458
00:25:38,980 --> 00:25:43,119
including the contiguity and the need for uniform setbacks,

459
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:44,519
things like that.

460
00:25:44,519 --> 00:25:47,589
Those are all things that are very much a purview of this

461
00:25:47,589 --> 00:25:48,519
commission.

462
00:25:48,519 --> 00:25:52,599
So I'm wondering, as we're thinking of this, why are we not

463
00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:56,299
using the words and why are we not thinking of, in that

464
00:25:56,299 --> 00:26:00,480
review process, that this commission would be the, to me,

465
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,519
the natural one to go to?

466
00:26:02,519 --> 00:26:05,079
So I might be a little bit out of the loop here and

467
00:26:05,079 --> 00:26:08,109
everybody else may be more in the loop than myself, but

468
00:26:08,109 --> 00:26:09,519
that's my question.

469
00:26:09,519 --> 00:26:11,519
Well, and it hasn't been determined.

470
00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:14,490
So it's been both of those and that's why I mentioned the

471
00:26:14,490 --> 00:26:17,660
fact that whether it's this or another body of whether it's

472
00:26:17,660 --> 00:26:20,660
the stakeholders that are affected by that area, no

473
00:26:20,660 --> 00:26:24,519
different than if we were to say that we had an east side,

474
00:26:24,519 --> 00:26:26,769
whatever it is, would it be, again, the Historic Pres

475
00:26:26,769 --> 00:26:27,519
ervation Board?

476
00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:29,859
Would it be the same for the entire central business

477
00:26:29,859 --> 00:26:30,519
district?

478
00:26:30,519 --> 00:26:34,609
If we had four or five overlays or would it be someone that

479
00:26:34,609 --> 00:26:38,910
would be dealing with the design standards overall and not

480
00:26:38,910 --> 00:26:41,519
to suggest that it wouldn't be?

481
00:26:41,519 --> 00:26:44,150
And more so to your point that, again, from a historic

482
00:26:44,150 --> 00:26:47,210
designation standpoint, absolutely would be and really kind

483
00:26:47,210 --> 00:26:49,519
of the significance of where we're going.

484
00:26:49,519 --> 00:26:53,650
So absolutely not opposed and wasn't suggesting that it

485
00:26:53,650 --> 00:26:54,519
wasn't.

486
00:26:54,519 --> 00:26:57,750
It was just, that's the two comments that we have heard

487
00:26:57,750 --> 00:26:58,519
thus far.

488
00:26:58,519 --> 00:27:01,519
I will take that as again, looking for direction.

489
00:27:01,519 --> 00:27:04,250
I hear your point in this being that it should be

490
00:27:04,250 --> 00:27:05,519
absolutely here.

491
00:27:05,519 --> 00:27:08,480
Very much, especially since I think one of the things that

492
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,140
this city has been very strong in doing is dealing and

493
00:27:11,140 --> 00:27:13,619
certainly Roman can speak to that having walked into this

494
00:27:13,619 --> 00:27:15,519
as our historic preservation officer.

495
00:27:15,519 --> 00:27:20,519
We've got very diverse historic neighborhoods.

496
00:27:20,519 --> 00:27:24,910
This is a very bottom up city in which every individual

497
00:27:24,910 --> 00:27:29,609
neighborhood or different overlay district is able to have

498
00:27:29,609 --> 00:27:35,000
autonomy and create their own, the things that they

499
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,779
themselves feel are important, all underneath a more rubric

500
00:27:39,779 --> 00:27:42,519
umbrella that this commission looks over.

501
00:27:42,519 --> 00:27:46,009
That's why I really see that and we've been wanting so much

502
00:27:46,009 --> 00:27:49,240
to work towards getting that overlay district on the

503
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,519
downtown neighborhood center.

504
00:27:51,519 --> 00:27:55,990
I would think as we move forward, I would strongly urge

505
00:27:55,990 --> 00:27:59,930
anyone who's in decision making power to really move forth

506
00:27:59,930 --> 00:28:03,700
with that model that we already have that works so well in

507
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:06,799
this city that we can both keep the integrity of the

508
00:28:06,799 --> 00:28:11,519
stakeholders in that district while making the big

509
00:28:11,519 --> 00:28:11,519
decisions

510
00:28:11,519 --> 00:28:14,799
for design guidelines, reviews, certificates of appropri

511
00:28:14,799 --> 00:28:18,009
ateness, that kind of stuff would fall perfectly under this

512
00:28:18,009 --> 00:28:20,779
commission's purview just like it does for any other

513
00:28:20,779 --> 00:28:23,519
historic neighborhood or historic overlay.

514
00:28:23,519 --> 00:28:27,230
I would be very much encouraging any from the top down to

515
00:28:27,230 --> 00:28:31,089
look at how well that's worked from our city because it's a

516
00:28:31,089 --> 00:28:34,880
very bottom up way of looking at it and it's been great for

517
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:35,519
us.

518
00:28:35,519 --> 00:28:38,519
Absolutely. I support that.

519
00:28:38,519 --> 00:28:44,069
Just one caveat I throw in there and it's not a debate at

520
00:28:44,069 --> 00:28:48,829
all, is as you reference, historic significance and keeping

521
00:28:48,829 --> 00:28:52,519
in mind that these aren't necessarily historic guidelines

522
00:28:52,519 --> 00:28:55,519
because we've also been working with that.

523
00:28:55,519 --> 00:28:59,180
So just this commission would ultimately be looking at a

524
00:28:59,180 --> 00:29:03,150
set of guidelines, not necessarily in the realm of historic

525
00:29:03,150 --> 00:29:03,519
.

526
00:29:03,519 --> 00:29:08,950
That would be my only caveat to add. Sure, I share that.

527
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:09,519
Thank you. Thank you.

528
00:29:09,519 --> 00:29:14,140
Daniel? Yeah, I would just echo that sentiment that to the

529
00:29:14,140 --> 00:29:18,500
extent there exists an HLC preservation districts and

530
00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:23,089
normal people with normal homes have to come to this body

531
00:29:23,089 --> 00:29:26,220
and ask for a COA, they don't like it appeal it to PNZ and

532
00:29:26,220 --> 00:29:27,519
then the council.

533
00:29:27,519 --> 00:29:30,029
I would, I would hope that the business owners on the

534
00:29:30,029 --> 00:29:32,750
square the landowners on the square would have a similar

535
00:29:32,750 --> 00:29:35,650
process. I think anything shorter that would ultimately be

536
00:29:35,650 --> 00:29:38,519
controversial. If there was an unpopular decision reached

537
00:29:38,519 --> 00:29:41,940
by a different sort of separate appellate process, that

538
00:29:41,940 --> 00:29:45,769
decision would meet with a lot of controversy around town

539
00:29:45,769 --> 00:29:48,960
if people felt like they were somehow had a special side

540
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,450
track around the normal procedures that every other home

541
00:29:52,450 --> 00:29:55,519
owner has to follow and updating historic property.

542
00:29:55,519 --> 00:30:00,519
I know voting for the years for time. Okay.

543
00:30:00,519 --> 00:30:07,720
Your presentation left me with the feeling that this board

544
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:15,049
was just deluded. It was one of many boards are many things

545
00:30:15,049 --> 00:30:21,950
that take a look and set the guidelines or say this or that

546
00:30:21,950 --> 00:30:22,519
.

547
00:30:22,519 --> 00:30:27,519
That's what I think.

548
00:30:27,519 --> 00:30:31,519
The way you described it, it works.

549
00:30:31,519 --> 00:30:36,519
The way you were describing it, it was very deluded.

550
00:30:36,519 --> 00:30:39,519
And so,

551
00:30:39,519 --> 00:30:43,200
and again, I'm all I'm trying to do is echo what feedback I

552
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:47,230
've heard, not not making recommendation. So we drafted we

553
00:30:47,230 --> 00:30:51,029
drafted guidelines to get to get public feedback and we're

554
00:30:51,029 --> 00:30:55,190
going through the process of public feedback. And I'm echo

555
00:30:55,190 --> 00:30:58,519
ing what it is that I heard as we go through this process.

556
00:30:58,519 --> 00:30:59,519
Okay.

557
00:30:59,519 --> 00:31:01,519
Absolutely.

558
00:31:01,519 --> 00:31:02,519
Absolutely.

559
00:31:02,519 --> 00:31:09,740
I think substantively guidelines are great. I mean, just

560
00:31:09,740 --> 00:31:10,579
because I agree and sort of a huge lack of any kind of

561
00:31:10,579 --> 00:31:11,519
guidelines right now. These look fantastic.

562
00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:15,000
Yeah, just give me some guidelines. I think there are a few

563
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:21,519
things that need to be maybe addressed in the guidelines.

564
00:31:21,519 --> 00:31:26,519
But not a lot, which is what's really nice.

565
00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:32,519
I, for example, if you're looking at the roof standards.

566
00:31:32,519 --> 00:31:36,009
It's very clear that things should be harmonious with

567
00:31:36,009 --> 00:31:39,519
existing buildings and overall building design.

568
00:31:39,519 --> 00:31:44,289
My question is some, we have a lot of wording in here that

569
00:31:44,289 --> 00:31:49,069
is basically in the character of surrounding buildings

570
00:31:49,069 --> 00:31:54,329
harmonious with, and I wonder, a is that too loose, because

571
00:31:54,329 --> 00:31:58,519
now I have to define what is harm harmonious.

572
00:31:58,519 --> 00:32:04,440
But my only other thing is making sure that we're being

573
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:10,859
effective all the way through. If I'm looking at windows

574
00:32:10,859 --> 00:32:13,519
and it says windows are

575
00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:16,680
demonstration and glazing standards overly tinted

576
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,980
reflective or opaque glass is not allowed on the ground

577
00:32:19,980 --> 00:32:23,410
floor of buildings, but it says nothing of the second and

578
00:32:23,410 --> 00:32:26,799
third floor. And when I imagine what I have what I see on

579
00:32:26,799 --> 00:32:30,519
the square right now and I see it quite often.

580
00:32:30,519 --> 00:32:35,180
I would, it, it's hard to think of the fact that someone

581
00:32:35,180 --> 00:32:39,839
would have clear glass on the first floor, but overly tint

582
00:32:39,839 --> 00:32:43,519
ed glass on the second third and fourth.

583
00:32:43,519 --> 00:32:48,789
I want to make sure that we're not being too loose in our

584
00:32:48,789 --> 00:32:54,759
guidelines, so that we can't help truly guide developers or

585
00:32:54,759 --> 00:33:00,140
business owners or building owners as they continue to

586
00:33:00,140 --> 00:33:06,519
design for the appropriateness of the downtown and keeping

587
00:33:06,519 --> 00:33:08,519
its historic character.

588
00:33:08,519 --> 00:33:13,180
Not that every facade will look historic, because this is

589
00:33:13,180 --> 00:33:17,490
not Disney World, but in keeping the character and the

590
00:33:17,490 --> 00:33:22,130
heart of of what is down there, which is completely unique

591
00:33:22,130 --> 00:33:23,519
to this area.

592
00:33:23,519 --> 00:33:28,029
And most main streets wish that they had the stock that we

593
00:33:28,029 --> 00:33:29,519
have downtown.

594
00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:33,869
And we need to make sure that we are preserving it and

595
00:33:33,869 --> 00:33:37,519
being careful in our guidelines that we can.

596
00:33:37,519 --> 00:33:39,519
Absolutely welcome it.

597
00:33:39,519 --> 00:33:41,930
Welcome any comments that you have as far as any specifics

598
00:33:41,930 --> 00:33:43,519
that you'd like to see addressed.

599
00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:49,829
I can say that the roofing, the roofing question was

600
00:33:49,829 --> 00:33:54,529
addressed by another person, and they indicated that you

601
00:33:54,529 --> 00:33:56,519
shouldn't see the roof.

602
00:33:56,519 --> 00:34:00,819
So they would like the design standards to be specific to

603
00:34:00,819 --> 00:34:04,920
say you do not see the roof of then you would see as a corn

604
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,400
ice or the the fascia boards. So someone couldn't put a g

605
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,320
abled roof or a shingle roof you see wouldn't be able to see

606
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:10,519
that.

607
00:34:10,519 --> 00:34:16,159
So the only building on the square that you can currently

608
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:22,039
see any portion of the roof is actually where JT Clothier's

609
00:34:22,039 --> 00:34:26,800
is right now. And it's, it's a facade. It's part of the

610
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:27,519
facade where you see the roof line.

611
00:34:27,519 --> 00:34:31,489
And in this building you can see the Jackson Hagen sign.

612
00:34:31,489 --> 00:34:35,739
But that's, that's part of the, yeah, that's still the wall

613
00:34:35,739 --> 00:34:39,780
up there. It's the access to the roof. It's not the roof

614
00:34:39,780 --> 00:34:43,519
itself everywhere else up there has a flat roof.

615
00:34:43,519 --> 00:34:55,539
Unless I'm in the only other one that I can think of is, is

616
00:34:55,539 --> 00:35:01,519
it the Schmidt building.

617
00:35:01,519 --> 00:35:04,519
Schmidt building. Yeah.

618
00:35:04,519 --> 00:35:08,239
That one you can see the roof it's a metal roof, but it's

619
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,969
one of the only ones and and that roof in no way looks obtr

620
00:35:11,969 --> 00:35:14,519
usive, but it is not a flat roof.

621
00:35:14,519 --> 00:35:19,139
And so I don't, I do like that. I think that yes, roofs

622
00:35:19,139 --> 00:35:23,690
probably should be flat and maybe that is something that we

623
00:35:23,690 --> 00:35:28,090
should look at but I do continue to like what I see here,

624
00:35:28,090 --> 00:35:32,780
where I'm seeing places where it says, find one, where it

625
00:35:32,780 --> 00:35:36,519
basically says, you know, everything is also under

626
00:35:36,519 --> 00:35:39,519
consideration individually if it seems appropriate.

627
00:35:39,519 --> 00:35:43,409
And, and I think that that's what we want and why we hired

628
00:35:43,409 --> 00:35:47,230
as a city, such an excellent HBO with such great skill as

629
00:35:47,230 --> 00:35:51,019
Roman has because I remember when we started looking at

630
00:35:51,019 --> 00:35:54,739
this and we went and talked to Guy and McKinney, and we

631
00:35:54,739 --> 00:35:58,070
went down to Dallas and I talked to some people in Fort

632
00:35:58,070 --> 00:35:58,519
Worth.

633
00:35:58,519 --> 00:36:02,159
And everybody said, you know, it's about being flexible it

634
00:36:02,159 --> 00:36:05,670
's about having strong guidelines, but also being able to

635
00:36:05,670 --> 00:36:09,170
say what's best for the building owner what's best for the

636
00:36:09,170 --> 00:36:12,670
business owner and what still makes sense for the developer

637
00:36:12,670 --> 00:36:15,659
overall, because you can't have guidelines that are so

638
00:36:15,659 --> 00:36:18,980
strong that they can't afford to build, but you can't have

639
00:36:18,980 --> 00:36:21,519
guidelines that are so weak that they put in something that

640
00:36:21,519 --> 00:36:24,920
looks completely out of character and takes away from the

641
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:25,519
feeling.

642
00:36:25,519 --> 00:36:29,909
And I, I'm hoping that that's what we can gain here is a

643
00:36:29,909 --> 00:36:34,349
balance where we can address and tweak some of the small

644
00:36:34,349 --> 00:36:38,369
things, but that we can make sure that we are giving it the

645
00:36:38,369 --> 00:36:41,510
balance that it needs so that people aren't scared away

646
00:36:41,510 --> 00:36:45,469
from creating infill downtown, because we're about to have

647
00:36:45,469 --> 00:36:47,519
a lot of infill created.

648
00:36:47,519 --> 00:36:51,639
And absolutely our goal with doing this and, you know, we

649
00:36:51,639 --> 00:36:55,909
looked at other cities we looked at best practices. We didn

650
00:36:55,909 --> 00:36:58,519
't feel there was a need to recreate the wheel.

651
00:36:58,519 --> 00:37:02,059
We're really trying to solicit feedback as quickly as we

652
00:37:02,059 --> 00:37:05,039
can get as many groups as we can, so we can create

653
00:37:05,039 --> 00:37:08,489
something that we have formal that we can bring back and

654
00:37:08,489 --> 00:37:12,400
say, here's our recommendation this is what we're proposing

655
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,519
to do, and to come to this body P and Z council and say,

656
00:37:16,519 --> 00:37:19,519
here's what we're wanting to do here's how we elect to do

657
00:37:19,519 --> 00:37:21,719
it and here are the, you know, the powers authorities and

658
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,219
the rules that go along with it up until that point it was

659
00:37:25,219 --> 00:37:27,519
just truly floating a balloon out there, knowing that

660
00:37:27,519 --> 00:37:32,550
historic designation standards or specific code has been

661
00:37:32,550 --> 00:37:36,829
met with resistance. Right. We know that we have something

662
00:37:36,829 --> 00:37:39,980
that's eminent that needs to happen so how do we best do

663
00:37:39,980 --> 00:37:43,579
that. And this was just the simple way to do it and say,

664
00:37:43,579 --> 00:37:47,260
how can we get around find out what the flavor is through

665
00:37:47,260 --> 00:37:48,519
all of our electives.

666
00:37:48,519 --> 00:37:54,469
Okay, so I just want to be, I want to make sure I'm clear.

667
00:37:54,469 --> 00:37:59,659
So, if these guidelines. If they get passed on, and you get

668
00:37:59,659 --> 00:38:02,519
approved or whatever iteration of them.

669
00:38:02,519 --> 00:38:12,460
What then, is it part of code, is it, is this something

670
00:38:12,460 --> 00:38:19,519
that becomes part of the code itself. It, and I'll let

671
00:38:19,519 --> 00:38:19,519
Victor chime in on this but as far as, as far as I'm

672
00:38:19,519 --> 00:38:19,519
concerned it will be part of the code of ordinances.

673
00:38:19,519 --> 00:38:23,949
That it'll be a reference to a design standard if you will

674
00:38:23,949 --> 00:38:28,400
to say this is the document that we're using, how that's

675
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:33,400
done by ordinance, I think is separate and I don't, I don't

676
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,519
mean to put you in a spot.

677
00:38:35,519 --> 00:38:39,739
The conversation is there's a certificate of appropriaten

678
00:38:39,739 --> 00:38:43,969
ess or certain design standards and those design standards

679
00:38:43,969 --> 00:38:48,340
are codified in the code. It's my understanding that's that

680
00:38:48,340 --> 00:38:49,519
's correct. Correct. So this will be codified in the code.

681
00:38:49,519 --> 00:38:49,519
Yes. That's what I want to know.

682
00:38:49,519 --> 00:38:53,900
Or by reference. That's a, that's a recommendation from

683
00:38:53,900 --> 00:38:56,519
this, from this, from this commission. Yes.

684
00:38:56,519 --> 00:38:59,909
So there's just a couple of points I want to make the piggy

685
00:38:59,909 --> 00:39:03,480
back on that and also maybe perhaps a suggestion, because

686
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:06,829
again I think since it is going to be codified in some form

687
00:39:06,829 --> 00:39:10,519
that this body is an integral part of that and if you'll

688
00:39:10,519 --> 00:39:13,519
look at the history and we just talked about it with Eric.

689
00:39:13,519 --> 00:39:16,550
Every step of the way of as we've moved forward talking

690
00:39:16,550 --> 00:39:19,800
about it a downtown overlay. It has been from whether it

691
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,039
has come from just the board or working in tandem with city

692
00:39:23,039 --> 00:39:25,869
council, working every step of the way we've had a

693
00:39:25,869 --> 00:39:31,519
representative from the commission working at the onset

694
00:39:31,519 --> 00:39:34,519
creation of moving forward with this.

695
00:39:34,519 --> 00:39:37,360
So for example just a couple other small points, like I

696
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,380
said, like Daniel said these are great, a great start.

697
00:39:40,380 --> 00:39:43,329
There's a couple of individual things that we could blitz

698
00:39:43,329 --> 00:39:46,409
you with that, you know, could make your head spin but that

699
00:39:46,409 --> 00:39:49,570
's why I think it would be important to have a

700
00:39:49,570 --> 00:39:50,519
representative.

701
00:39:50,519 --> 00:39:53,789
So for example, just on the window thing alone, everything

702
00:39:53,789 --> 00:39:56,760
that was said including making sure we've got plenty of

703
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,780
them sounds wonderful. Now the only thing that I see is

704
00:39:59,780 --> 00:40:02,869
missing would be something for example about when we have

705
00:40:02,869 --> 00:40:06,519
windows that have original window glazing in them that we

706
00:40:06,519 --> 00:40:11,519
do, and take as many steps as possible to preserve those.

707
00:40:11,519 --> 00:40:15,010
Or for example and we just had this occur with the tragedy

708
00:40:15,010 --> 00:40:18,500
of the fire on the square. When something takes down an

709
00:40:18,500 --> 00:40:22,519
entire facade of a building. Do we have codified in their

710
00:40:22,519 --> 00:40:26,889
language like for every other overlay district that we need

711
00:40:26,889 --> 00:40:30,519
a COA for demolition that would have put

712
00:40:30,519 --> 00:40:33,769
in the process for what just occurred on the square that

713
00:40:33,769 --> 00:40:37,150
might have changed things I don't know we might have wound

714
00:40:37,150 --> 00:40:40,530
up in the same place it might have had a different response

715
00:40:40,530 --> 00:40:43,650
but this is such a unique commission and has so much to

716
00:40:43,650 --> 00:40:48,289
offer that I think anytime there's ever been a problem with

717
00:40:48,289 --> 00:40:51,880
the city in this area, it's because the commission has come

718
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:56,519
in after decisions have been made, and then the commission

719
00:40:56,519 --> 00:40:59,519
tries to come in and make it fit and work.

720
00:40:59,519 --> 00:41:03,260
Cleanup. Every time we have been the strongest is when we

721
00:41:03,260 --> 00:41:06,800
've had a particular representative from the commission,

722
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,909
working forward in tandem to make sure that just that

723
00:41:09,909 --> 00:41:13,179
little unique perspective from from the preservation

724
00:41:13,179 --> 00:41:17,289
perspective can be incorporated from the beginning and then

725
00:41:17,289 --> 00:41:20,519
it is a seamless process moving forward one

726
00:41:20,519 --> 00:41:23,400
does not have to take away from the other, and I would

727
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,539
think that the person, you know, I would think we've got

728
00:41:26,539 --> 00:41:29,469
Alyssa here we've got Daniel here either one of them or

729
00:41:29,469 --> 00:41:32,489
anybody else on the board would be perfectly capable of

730
00:41:32,489 --> 00:41:36,519
doing that and just giving just a little guidance, just

731
00:41:36,519 --> 00:41:40,260
from the ground floor on these issues, and just would just

732
00:41:40,260 --> 00:41:40,519
make everything

733
00:41:40,519 --> 00:41:44,519
we're talking about just a little bit stronger.

734
00:41:44,519 --> 00:41:47,519
That makes sense.

735
00:41:47,519 --> 00:41:50,519
Well, you can answer.

736
00:41:50,519 --> 00:41:54,239
Well, and I guess I just would have happy to hear, and

737
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:58,230
again, not that you're speaking for the rest of the board

738
00:41:58,230 --> 00:42:02,250
but the reality of creating another board creates a whole

739
00:42:02,250 --> 00:42:06,099
series of issues so much rather house it something that

740
00:42:06,099 --> 00:42:07,519
exists today.

741
00:42:07,519 --> 00:42:10,710
So, absolutely no problem with that I wasn't going to

742
00:42:10,710 --> 00:42:14,329
presume or assign that I'm just, again soliciting input and

743
00:42:14,329 --> 00:42:17,730
feedback and the certificate of appropriateness was was

744
00:42:17,730 --> 00:42:21,070
again, even one of those options whether or not we would

745
00:42:21,070 --> 00:42:25,519
even do that or have a set of standards and, and again, how

746
00:42:25,519 --> 00:42:27,519
far we want to take this down the line.

747
00:42:27,519 --> 00:42:31,409
Absolutely support that the work that the HLC does. This is

748
00:42:31,409 --> 00:42:34,929
really designed on that and again from just from the mere

749
00:42:34,929 --> 00:42:38,519
fact of that where do we start where to be, we begin.

750
00:42:38,519 --> 00:42:41,760
This is a very simple start. And then as we can look at

751
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,849
then the historic preservation aspects, and then look at

752
00:42:44,849 --> 00:42:47,800
whether there's another code design that's required or

753
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,760
where we go and how we transition this across the central

754
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,519
business district.

755
00:42:52,519 --> 00:42:57,179
Couple of questions in the blue zone, and just a guess how

756
00:42:57,179 --> 00:43:02,519
many buildings in the blue zone or less than 100 years old.

757
00:43:02,519 --> 00:43:06,519
Are less than 100 years old.

758
00:43:06,519 --> 00:43:09,519
In the blue in the blue zone.

759
00:43:09,519 --> 00:43:12,519
Well,

760
00:43:12,519 --> 00:43:16,519
the Sherman building is less than 100 years old.

761
00:43:16,519 --> 00:43:20,519
LSA is less than 100 built years old.

762
00:43:20,519 --> 00:43:25,519
The bank buildings over 100. Everything else on that side.

763
00:43:25,519 --> 00:43:31,360
Whatever goes into the new infill for for many mobile be

764
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,070
less than 100. The things that got hit by fire, really, are

765
00:43:35,070 --> 00:43:38,849
less than 100 years old, but virtually everything in there

766
00:43:38,849 --> 00:43:41,519
that wasn't burned up is, is still original.

767
00:43:41,519 --> 00:43:51,519
The vast majority is under.

768
00:43:51,519 --> 00:43:57,099
Yeah, most of our, our side is older than 1918 mine was

769
00:43:57,099 --> 00:43:58,519
1890.

770
00:43:58,519 --> 00:44:03,039
I think ours was second question is, in your mind, does

771
00:44:03,039 --> 00:44:07,739
this preclude the historic district designation down the

772
00:44:07,739 --> 00:44:08,519
road.

773
00:44:08,519 --> 00:44:13,179
No, sir, it is not intended actually probably more so to

774
00:44:13,179 --> 00:44:17,400
compliment. I mean, ultimately, by virtue of if we can

775
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,920
create something that is that we can define as it is an

776
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:21,519
area.

777
00:44:21,519 --> 00:44:25,440
Then we have standards to at least try to manage timeless,

778
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:29,199
it'd be much simpler to create that historic district to

779
00:44:29,199 --> 00:44:31,519
say that's really what this is.

780
00:44:31,519 --> 00:44:38,519
But the time required to do that would be pretty immense.

781
00:44:38,519 --> 00:44:40,400
And it's a whole different conversation. Yes, historic

782
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,340
district. We're really sort of riding herd over rules they

783
00:44:42,340 --> 00:44:45,519
choose for themselves, even if the blue area were eight

784
00:44:45,519 --> 00:44:48,519
historic districts, they could eat east side rules.

785
00:44:48,519 --> 00:44:52,260
So in other words, there's flexibility there with historic

786
00:44:52,260 --> 00:44:56,139
districts to do that if I understand it right. Absolutely.

787
00:44:56,139 --> 00:44:59,639
But, but your point is so perfectly made and so timely and

788
00:44:59,639 --> 00:45:01,519
politically very wise.

789
00:45:01,519 --> 00:45:06,429
It's been very difficult to get this accomplished in a very

790
00:45:06,429 --> 00:45:11,429
direct way, starting with calling it a historic overlay if

791
00:45:11,429 --> 00:45:16,139
we could get the guidelines in place, get it codified in

792
00:45:16,139 --> 00:45:18,519
the DDC or DCC or whichever.

793
00:45:18,519 --> 00:45:31,699
Thank you. And like I said, keep a representative in on the

794
00:45:31,699 --> 00:45:31,940
ground floor of how that language actually goes in, then we

795
00:45:31,940 --> 00:45:32,159
have actually accomplished what we've been trying to

796
00:45:32,159 --> 00:45:32,380
accomplish all along we can call it whatever we want after

797
00:45:32,380 --> 00:45:34,519
the fact but I really like your thinking as far as that

798
00:45:34,519 --> 00:45:34,519
goes.

799
00:45:34,519 --> 00:45:37,519
And I think it's very smart.

800
00:45:37,519 --> 00:45:40,519
And might actually get us to accomplish this.

801
00:45:40,519 --> 00:45:46,230
I was hearing the comment about the fire that was on the

802
00:45:46,230 --> 00:45:49,519
square and the demolition.

803
00:45:49,519 --> 00:45:51,519
It was done.

804
00:45:51,519 --> 00:45:56,420
However, and without a COA right it didn't need to see

805
00:45:56,420 --> 00:45:59,519
without a COA right again when you do this.

806
00:45:59,519 --> 00:46:03,239
That there is these are the standards, because there's good

807
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:03,519
.

808
00:46:03,519 --> 00:46:08,179
There but actually this these guidelines, there's going to

809
00:46:08,179 --> 00:46:10,519
be more problems on the square.

810
00:46:10,519 --> 00:46:14,090
You know whatever you don't which is right, it's going to

811
00:46:14,090 --> 00:46:17,519
go my goodness, a building on the squares burning.

812
00:46:17,519 --> 00:46:20,639
And it's going to be all what are we going to do all they

813
00:46:20,639 --> 00:46:23,519
just tore down and ran away and did nothing.

814
00:46:23,519 --> 00:46:28,940
So, correct the problem. Yes, now. Yes, let's do it again

815
00:46:28,940 --> 00:46:29,519
later.

816
00:46:29,519 --> 00:46:32,980
No, I do want to actually piggyback on what you're saying

817
00:46:32,980 --> 00:46:36,019
is I actually don't see anything in the guidelines

818
00:46:36,019 --> 00:46:39,519
regarding demolition or demolition by neglect.

819
00:46:39,519 --> 00:46:40,519
Right.

820
00:46:40,519 --> 00:46:43,519
And that really is everywhere else.

821
00:46:43,519 --> 00:46:46,710
And I would like to ask, is that doing intent on adding

822
00:46:46,710 --> 00:46:48,519
that into the guidelines.

823
00:46:48,519 --> 00:46:50,519
Well, it's been part of the feedback.

824
00:46:50,519 --> 00:46:53,869
So a certificate of appropriateness is going to be for

825
00:46:53,869 --> 00:46:57,519
really anything that would require a building permit.

826
00:46:57,519 --> 00:47:01,519
Okay, so anything other than ordinary repairs.

827
00:47:01,519 --> 00:47:04,940
So an ordinary repair is if I had wooden steps, I'm not

828
00:47:04,940 --> 00:47:06,519
replacing the steps.

829
00:47:06,519 --> 00:47:10,519
I'm replacing a piece of wood, right.

830
00:47:10,519 --> 00:47:13,519
Replacing a trim board around a window.

831
00:47:13,519 --> 00:47:15,760
But if I choose to change the storefront, I need a building

832
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,519
permit in order to get a building permit.

833
00:47:17,519 --> 00:47:19,519
I need to get a certificate of appropriateness.

834
00:47:19,519 --> 00:47:22,519
No different than with demolition.

835
00:47:22,519 --> 00:47:24,519
So demolition would follow a similar path.

836
00:47:24,519 --> 00:47:28,320
If I'm going to demolish, I can opt, you're saying disaster

837
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:32,460
, as a building owner today, I can choose to tear down a

838
00:47:32,460 --> 00:47:33,519
building.

839
00:47:33,519 --> 00:47:36,519
So what is going to prevent me from doing that?

840
00:47:36,519 --> 00:47:37,519
Nothing.

841
00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:39,809
But ultimately with the design standards, that's part of

842
00:47:39,809 --> 00:47:40,519
this process.

843
00:47:40,519 --> 00:47:46,519
Now, I can't tell you to the depth of what that might mean.

844
00:47:46,519 --> 00:47:49,519
That would require a little more vetting.

845
00:47:49,519 --> 00:47:53,090
But ultimately, the rules are what we create the rules to

846
00:47:53,090 --> 00:47:53,519
be.

847
00:47:53,519 --> 00:47:57,400
So however the process works, whatever council in turn

848
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,519
decides to do, that's what the rules are.

849
00:48:00,519 --> 00:48:04,199
So short answer, yes, demolition would be part of the

850
00:48:04,199 --> 00:48:08,400
certificate of appropriateness on the basis that a building

851
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:09,519
permit is required.

852
00:48:09,519 --> 00:48:12,139
And that's how we would tie the certificate of appropriaten

853
00:48:12,139 --> 00:48:12,519
ess.

854
00:48:12,519 --> 00:48:16,409
What about also demolition by the black considering the

855
00:48:16,409 --> 00:48:20,519
fine arts theater and just the renovation there?

856
00:48:20,519 --> 00:48:23,329
I don't think many buildings other than that one are at

857
00:48:23,329 --> 00:48:24,519
risk on the square.

858
00:48:24,519 --> 00:48:30,449
But that one sure would have been well served by a demol

859
00:48:30,449 --> 00:48:35,519
ition by neglect statute 10 years ago.

860
00:48:35,519 --> 00:48:39,289
Yeah, ultimately, yeah, I don't have a good answer for that

861
00:48:39,289 --> 00:48:40,519
specifically.

862
00:48:40,519 --> 00:48:45,519
But again, I know that's my whole purpose in being here.

863
00:48:45,519 --> 00:48:48,670
I wasn't like here wasn't here as an action item because I

864
00:48:48,670 --> 00:48:52,809
'd rather bring you something more concrete and ultimately

865
00:48:52,809 --> 00:48:54,519
go down that path.

866
00:48:54,519 --> 00:48:57,670
My charge in this is that if I'm going to do it, I need to

867
00:48:57,670 --> 00:48:59,519
do this very aggressively.

868
00:48:59,519 --> 00:49:00,519
We need to do this quickly.

869
00:49:00,519 --> 00:49:03,460
And the only way I can do that is to get before as many

870
00:49:03,460 --> 00:49:06,760
audiences as I can at least get an understanding of where

871
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:07,519
it's at.

872
00:49:07,519 --> 00:49:10,170
This is probably the easiest audience to have this

873
00:49:10,170 --> 00:49:12,940
conversation with just because you understand the

874
00:49:12,940 --> 00:49:14,519
importance and the significance.

875
00:49:14,519 --> 00:49:18,909
So for also, I mean, we do need to consider demolition by

876
00:49:18,909 --> 00:49:22,659
neglect and what happens whenever people do decide to demol

877
00:49:22,659 --> 00:49:23,519
ish building.

878
00:49:23,519 --> 00:49:28,550
And I think if it is downtown, if it is historic, it needs

879
00:49:28,550 --> 00:49:30,519
to come before HLC.

880
00:49:30,519 --> 00:49:31,519
Absolutely.

881
00:49:31,519 --> 00:49:37,110
But I also wonder about just neglect if people if the

882
00:49:37,110 --> 00:49:43,739
standards are falling behind because someone is neglecting

883
00:49:43,739 --> 00:49:48,519
their building and is remaining vacant.

884
00:49:48,519 --> 00:49:53,679
Can we is there something that can be included in the

885
00:49:53,679 --> 00:49:59,519
guidelines to address neglect in a historic building?

886
00:49:59,519 --> 00:50:02,519
Yes. Short answer.

887
00:50:02,519 --> 00:50:04,519
Ultimately, you can do that.

888
00:50:04,519 --> 00:50:07,519
You can do that with it with a nonhistoric building.

889
00:50:07,519 --> 00:50:09,519
That's at the that's at the will of the council.

890
00:50:09,519 --> 00:50:14,260
So if council likes to have a vacant building ordinance and

891
00:50:14,260 --> 00:50:19,519
requirements that go along with that, certainly.

892
00:50:19,519 --> 00:50:22,519
I only err on the side of that.

893
00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:25,159
As we look at this in baby steps and say that what we're

894
00:50:25,159 --> 00:50:27,519
attempting to do is to start with something.

895
00:50:27,519 --> 00:50:28,519
Yes.

896
00:50:28,519 --> 00:50:31,869
And to manage it again, to manage it and then figure out,

897
00:50:31,869 --> 00:50:35,630
you know, the reality is, is that we'll we'll create this

898
00:50:35,630 --> 00:50:36,519
program.

899
00:50:36,519 --> 00:50:39,519
And do we have to review this in six months or a year?

900
00:50:39,519 --> 00:50:41,519
I absolutely would think so.

901
00:50:41,519 --> 00:50:44,139
I don't think we're going to get it 100 percent out of the

902
00:50:44,139 --> 00:50:44,519
box.

903
00:50:44,519 --> 00:50:48,460
Right. But having something rather than having nothing and

904
00:50:48,460 --> 00:50:51,590
then capitalize upon the successes and figure out what our

905
00:50:51,590 --> 00:50:52,519
failures may be.

906
00:50:52,519 --> 00:50:55,789
And then we we we, you know, make the corrections as we

907
00:50:55,789 --> 00:50:56,519
need to.

908
00:50:56,519 --> 00:51:00,659
And Scott, I think you're going to find that everybody on

909
00:51:00,659 --> 00:51:03,019
this board and I shouldn't speak for all of us, but we

910
00:51:03,019 --> 00:51:05,519
agree with that sentiment.

911
00:51:05,519 --> 00:51:07,519
We have been wanting something for a long time.

912
00:51:07,519 --> 00:51:11,590
I personally live downtown and have watched a lot of

913
00:51:11,590 --> 00:51:15,960
changes over the last several years and have sat on this

914
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,519
board for the majority of that.

915
00:51:18,519 --> 00:51:22,570
And we've been pushing for this, not because we're trying

916
00:51:22,570 --> 00:51:26,349
to take over Denton, but because we want to protect the

917
00:51:26,349 --> 00:51:27,519
character.

918
00:51:27,519 --> 00:51:30,519
And I agree. Having something is much better than nothing.

919
00:51:30,519 --> 00:51:33,679
And if we can set up something and bring it under a process

920
00:51:33,679 --> 00:51:37,639
of review for six months out, a year out, a year and a half

921
00:51:37,639 --> 00:51:41,519
until we get it just right and make those small adjustments

922
00:51:41,519 --> 00:51:43,519
as we see fit from there.

923
00:51:43,519 --> 00:51:47,059
Find out, you know, what what holes we've left because we

924
00:51:47,059 --> 00:51:50,519
're bound to leave some.

925
00:51:50,519 --> 00:51:52,519
All right. We support that.

926
00:51:52,519 --> 00:51:55,789
We want that. I know I would know as far as these

927
00:51:55,789 --> 00:51:59,929
guidelines and what it looks like procedurally, the way I

928
00:51:59,929 --> 00:52:04,739
imagine it might work is you codify these guidelines by

929
00:52:04,739 --> 00:52:09,130
reference to some sort of external thing that you can

930
00:52:09,130 --> 00:52:11,519
update regularly.

931
00:52:11,519 --> 00:52:16,210
I know I would be happy to apply more stringent guidelines

932
00:52:16,210 --> 00:52:20,650
in a broader context in my role as a commissioner here to

933
00:52:20,650 --> 00:52:22,519
serve the square.

934
00:52:22,519 --> 00:52:24,519
I think a lot of us would be.

935
00:52:24,519 --> 00:52:27,250
And, you know, it would just be we're looking at the

936
00:52:27,250 --> 00:52:28,519
overall ordinance.

937
00:52:28,519 --> 00:52:31,599
I don't know what the state of that is, but sort of maybe

938
00:52:31,599 --> 00:52:35,409
maybe that part of the ordinance could use some tweaking to

939
00:52:35,409 --> 00:52:40,179
say this is how the HLC applies guidelines that are cod

940
00:52:40,179 --> 00:52:40,519
ified or referenced.

941
00:52:40,519 --> 00:52:44,099
To propose projects and, you know, maybe we can all have

942
00:52:44,099 --> 00:52:47,920
some sort of additional training additional workload to get

943
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,590
familiar with maybe beyond just historic guidelines so we

944
00:52:51,590 --> 00:52:55,400
can confidently apply these guidelines well the extent that

945
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,519
they go beyond just historic preservation.

946
00:52:58,519 --> 00:53:01,519
Absolutely appreciate that.

947
00:53:01,519 --> 00:53:11,519
I'd be happy to do the extra work.

948
00:53:11,519 --> 00:53:16,800
Where we approach the owners and say, we're going to target

949
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:21,650
specific and it voted by PNC or City Council, where the

950
00:53:21,650 --> 00:53:27,150
city actually suspends them from the tax rolls. During this

951
00:53:27,150 --> 00:53:32,519
three year period when they agree to work with HLC or PNC.

952
00:53:32,519 --> 00:53:35,949
That's what gets them in the front door when you want to be

953
00:53:35,949 --> 00:53:39,489
a part of this program because you pay no property taxes to

954
00:53:39,489 --> 00:53:43,409
the city or county or board. Do you consider the sort of a

955
00:53:43,409 --> 00:53:46,809
more progressive approach to getting people interested in

956
00:53:46,809 --> 00:53:50,519
participating in something like that.

957
00:53:50,519 --> 00:53:54,489
I can't I can't speak to that specifically I can tell you

958
00:53:54,489 --> 00:53:58,579
that you have a management team that's very progressive

959
00:53:58,579 --> 00:54:02,570
that they're looking at any number of things that would

960
00:54:02,570 --> 00:54:06,820
benefit the citizens of Denton to include the square, and

961
00:54:06,820 --> 00:54:10,519
some of those conversations are solid waste.

962
00:54:10,519 --> 00:54:13,889
So how we deal with the dumpsters on the square and looking

963
00:54:13,889 --> 00:54:17,579
at a more common approach. The idea of providing incentives

964
00:54:17,579 --> 00:54:21,519
for fire suppression systems throughout the entire square.

965
00:54:21,519 --> 00:54:29,090
So, I can't answer that question I don't know that I would

966
00:54:29,090 --> 00:54:35,869
dare to other than the fact to say that there are some

967
00:54:35,869 --> 00:54:43,769
programs that are available out there today that could help

968
00:54:43,769 --> 00:54:44,519
.

969
00:54:44,519 --> 00:54:48,780
Okay, we need to be really diligent to do this and make

970
00:54:48,780 --> 00:54:52,519
sure that everything is followed.

971
00:54:52,519 --> 00:54:56,789
So I really think the fire reading that ordinance I think

972
00:54:56,789 --> 00:54:59,519
that should have come before us.

973
00:54:59,519 --> 00:55:03,519
And I've talked to several other people and they agreed.

974
00:55:03,519 --> 00:55:15,519
And it just went away. And you can build new, but it's not

975
00:55:15,519 --> 00:55:15,519
the same as old. I mean the Sherman building looks okay but

976
00:55:15,519 --> 00:55:15,519
it's not. It's not the same.

977
00:55:15,519 --> 00:55:20,260
And we looked very carefully at that I assure you that it

978
00:55:20,260 --> 00:55:25,159
had it been a requirement to come before this body we would

979
00:55:25,159 --> 00:55:29,349
have made certain that it did. So I, it was very

980
00:55:29,349 --> 00:55:34,519
challenging and Roman Roman and I struggled through that

981
00:55:34,519 --> 00:55:36,519
very process.

982
00:55:36,519 --> 00:55:45,519
And reading it and having other people read it. They said,

983
00:55:45,519 --> 00:55:45,519
yeah, come to you all. And I just think that if we're going

984
00:55:45,519 --> 00:55:45,519
to do this we need to do it right.

985
00:55:45,519 --> 00:55:50,289
I think, and speaking to that, what are we looking at as

986
00:55:50,289 --> 00:55:55,519
far as repercussions to violations of these guidelines.

987
00:55:55,519 --> 00:56:00,179
What gives them the teeth that they need in order to be

988
00:56:00,179 --> 00:56:03,519
carried through and not violated.

989
00:56:03,519 --> 00:56:07,519
Like any other provision of our municipal code.

990
00:56:07,519 --> 00:56:11,800
If it's, if it is a violation of our municipal code it's

991
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:16,650
punishable of municipal court of $500 per occurrence per

992
00:56:16,650 --> 00:56:19,519
violation unless it's life safety.

993
00:56:19,519 --> 00:56:24,519
Classy.

994
00:56:24,519 --> 00:56:33,070
And the other relief in any kind of violation of our code

995
00:56:33,070 --> 00:56:36,389
is injunctive relief so stopping somebody from doing

996
00:56:36,389 --> 00:56:39,550
something that's the city could file an action in district

997
00:56:39,550 --> 00:56:42,449
court to stop somebody from doing something if it was

998
00:56:42,449 --> 00:56:43,519
appropriate.

999
00:56:43,519 --> 00:56:48,269
But, correctly, I may have misheard, but I thought this was

1000
00:56:48,269 --> 00:56:50,519
not going to be part of the code.

1001
00:56:50,519 --> 00:56:52,840
Well, I think that was some of the discussion going on

1002
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,039
whether it would be part of the code or not part of the

1003
00:56:55,039 --> 00:56:55,519
code.

1004
00:56:55,519 --> 00:56:59,519
Okay, I'll ask again. Is it going to be part of the code?

1005
00:56:59,519 --> 00:57:02,599
What I think the discussion here is getting insight and if

1006
00:57:02,599 --> 00:57:05,690
that's the recommendation to make it part of the code that

1007
00:57:05,690 --> 00:57:09,519
you would make it part of the code or not if you just want

1008
00:57:09,519 --> 00:57:11,519
the alternatives that Scott was recommending.

1009
00:57:11,519 --> 00:57:20,519
And that would be different. And if it is not part of the

1010
00:57:20,519 --> 00:57:20,519
code, does it have any teeth?

1011
00:57:20,519 --> 00:57:25,179
I'm sure that with the with planning and legal we put as

1012
00:57:25,179 --> 00:57:30,519
much teeth as we could to it.

1013
00:57:30,519 --> 00:57:35,429
We certainly don't want to create a set of standards that

1014
00:57:35,429 --> 00:57:36,519
are useless.

1015
00:57:36,519 --> 00:57:41,320
Without coming with a preconceived notion of what it is or

1016
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:45,920
what I've heard many times from different groups is that

1017
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,260
here's the city again ram rotting something down our throat

1018
00:57:49,260 --> 00:57:49,519
.

1019
00:57:49,519 --> 00:57:53,909
They're just giving us what it is. I'm truly soliciting

1020
00:57:53,909 --> 00:57:58,380
feedback and I'm hearing and it's not really any different

1021
00:57:58,380 --> 00:58:02,000
than I've heard from the other groups is you want something

1022
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,519
that's substantive, flexible for property owners,

1023
00:58:05,519 --> 00:58:07,920
something that's going to provide for protection of the

1024
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,519
character and truly to be enforceable in order to do that,

1025
00:58:10,519 --> 00:58:12,519
then it has to be part of the code.

1026
00:58:12,519 --> 00:58:18,550
Yes. So in the context that it is much simpler to walk

1027
00:58:18,550 --> 00:58:20,519
through the process.

1028
00:58:20,519 --> 00:58:24,139
And again, the failure to obtain a certificate of appropri

1029
00:58:24,139 --> 00:58:27,519
ateness is an action that that it violates the code.

1030
00:58:27,519 --> 00:58:30,829
So that would have to be an ordinance that would say a

1031
00:58:30,829 --> 00:58:34,849
certificate of appropriateness is required and no different

1032
00:58:34,849 --> 00:58:38,630
than following some of our drainage manuals or our roadway

1033
00:58:38,630 --> 00:58:43,949
construction manuals, water, wastewater, very much in the

1034
00:58:43,949 --> 00:58:45,519
same fashion.

1035
00:58:45,519 --> 00:58:50,519
So I agree.

1036
00:58:50,519 --> 00:58:57,650
So it's like you said this is not an actionable item. So I

1037
00:58:57,650 --> 00:58:59,519
think you've heard everything that we have to say.

1038
00:58:59,519 --> 00:59:03,059
I think I've heard I've heard some support and I'd like to

1039
00:59:03,059 --> 00:59:06,519
think that I'll be back before this body very soon.

1040
00:59:06,519 --> 00:59:11,269
That's what I was going to ask is when can we expect an

1041
00:59:11,269 --> 00:59:16,639
update and when can we expect to move forward as as quickly

1042
00:59:16,639 --> 00:59:19,519
as I can possibly move there.

1043
00:59:19,519 --> 00:59:23,519
And timeline on that.

1044
00:59:23,519 --> 00:59:28,179
No, not necessarily. And I say that I will say that I don't

1045
00:59:28,179 --> 00:59:32,349
intend on this being a six month process. I know you've

1046
00:59:32,349 --> 00:59:34,519
been dealing with it for years.

1047
00:59:34,519 --> 00:59:38,519
I suspect that this would be completed this spring.

1048
00:59:38,519 --> 00:59:43,000
So summer ends in June or begins in June. So I would I

1049
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:48,050
would really like to be through this process by then. I don

1050
00:59:48,050 --> 00:59:50,519
't know that. Okay. But that can be my I can dare to dream.

1051
00:59:50,519 --> 00:59:55,519
So we're shooting for June, hopefully by August.

1052
00:59:55,519 --> 00:59:58,489
No, really, I plan on being through the process by June,

1053
00:59:58,489 --> 01:00:01,469
meaning that I would be before council excellent in a short

1054
01:00:01,469 --> 01:00:02,519
period of time.

1055
01:00:02,519 --> 01:00:06,869
So, again, I just need to solicit the feedback from the

1056
01:00:06,869 --> 01:00:11,050
public to garner what I can put together what it is that I

1057
01:00:11,050 --> 01:00:15,650
believe to be the recommendations to take forward to those

1058
01:00:15,650 --> 01:00:16,519
bodies.

1059
01:00:16,519 --> 01:00:20,440
And I think, you know, through this, I've heard that I just

1060
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:23,920
really need a work session with with P and Z and council

1061
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:27,480
and get their direction and craft and take it right back

1062
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:28,519
through.

1063
01:00:28,519 --> 01:00:31,500
I'm sorry I had been out for just a minute, but I'm hearing

1064
01:00:31,500 --> 01:00:34,730
that that's a very quick timeline. Would it be appropriate

1065
01:00:34,730 --> 01:00:37,309
for us then to ask, would there be someone who could

1066
01:00:37,309 --> 01:00:40,130
perhaps write a little summary as we're looking through

1067
01:00:40,130 --> 01:00:44,119
this, perhaps some additions that could be made just from

1068
01:00:44,119 --> 01:00:47,250
an HLC perspective that we could then submit to you as you

1069
01:00:47,250 --> 01:00:50,519
're moving through to finalize what you're writing.

1070
01:00:50,519 --> 01:00:55,139
Absolutely. I'm happy to take any comments Roman Roman has

1071
01:00:55,139 --> 01:00:59,099
been working very hard with Sean on this. Ron is very

1072
01:00:59,099 --> 01:01:02,389
familiar with it. So really any of our planning staff, you

1073
01:01:02,389 --> 01:01:04,519
can you can provide the email paper.

1074
01:01:04,519 --> 01:01:05,519
I'm so sorry.

1075
01:01:05,519 --> 01:01:06,519
Call us.

1076
01:01:06,519 --> 01:01:07,519
Excuse me.

1077
01:01:07,519 --> 01:01:11,219
This never happens. And I don't know how to make it shut up

1078
01:01:11,219 --> 01:01:11,519
.

1079
01:01:11,519 --> 01:01:14,519
I can't make it shut up.

1080
01:01:14,519 --> 01:01:17,519
I'm sorry.

1081
01:01:17,519 --> 01:01:20,519
Please help me with this.

1082
01:01:20,519 --> 01:01:24,519
So, I can tell you that after.

1083
01:01:24,519 --> 01:01:26,929
I think every meeting that I've had I've met with

1084
01:01:26,929 --> 01:01:30,019
individuals that have a vested interest in it. Happy to

1085
01:01:30,019 --> 01:01:33,449
meet with anyone individually, or again any of any of our

1086
01:01:33,449 --> 01:01:36,519
staff that are that are engaged in the process.

1087
01:01:36,519 --> 01:01:40,590
If there is anything specific that we see in here, small

1088
01:01:40,590 --> 01:01:45,010
details that might need updating before this moves onward,

1089
01:01:45,010 --> 01:01:48,519
we should pass it to Roman, pass it to Roman.

1090
01:01:48,519 --> 01:01:49,519
Sure.

1091
01:01:49,519 --> 01:01:56,809
Email it over to Roman in the next week week guys can we, I

1092
01:01:56,809 --> 01:01:58,519
mean, yeah.

1093
01:01:58,519 --> 01:02:04,449
Cool. All right. I know that's fast. I know you're in the

1094
01:02:04,449 --> 01:02:06,519
middle of tax season.

1095
01:02:06,519 --> 01:02:11,519
But we've waited six years we've got to get this thing.

1096
01:02:11,519 --> 01:02:14,280
Well, and keep in mind no matter what you what you do in

1097
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:17,289
the next week doesn't mean that it's over so it's going to,

1098
01:02:17,289 --> 01:02:20,519
it's ultimately going to have to go before public hearings.

1099
01:02:20,519 --> 01:02:24,010
And, and for me I think this should be a living breathing

1100
01:02:24,010 --> 01:02:27,739
document anyhow not to say that we're creating the ultimate

1101
01:02:27,739 --> 01:02:30,500
end all. So, we create something and then we look at it

1102
01:02:30,500 --> 01:02:32,909
review it and make sure that what we have is relevant and

1103
01:02:32,909 --> 01:02:34,519
is working as we designed it to.

1104
01:02:34,519 --> 01:02:36,519
Absolutely. It's just a step.

1105
01:02:36,519 --> 01:02:40,119
Thank you very much for your time. Thank you so much, Scott

1106
01:02:40,119 --> 01:02:40,519
.

1107
01:02:40,519 --> 01:02:42,519
We appreciate it.

1108
01:02:42,519 --> 01:02:47,150
All right. Let's move on to item to see consider approval

1109
01:02:47,150 --> 01:02:51,519
of the Historic Landmark Commission meeting minutes.

1110
01:02:51,519 --> 01:02:54,519
Move we approve the minutes is offered.

1111
01:02:54,519 --> 01:02:57,519
Second. Great.

1112
01:02:57,519 --> 01:02:59,519
So moved.

1113
01:02:59,519 --> 01:03:03,429
Do we need to take a vote on that. We do. Let's take a vote

1114
01:03:03,429 --> 01:03:06,519
on the millions. All in favor. Aye.

1115
01:03:06,519 --> 01:03:07,519
Aye.

1116
01:03:07,519 --> 01:03:10,519
Passes unanimously.

1117
01:03:10,519 --> 01:03:17,519
All right. Let's move on to item 2D.

1118
01:03:17,519 --> 01:03:31,519
The Historic Landmark Commission project matrix.

1119
01:03:31,519 --> 01:03:34,820
Chair, this is just an opportunity to go over the matrix

1120
01:03:34,820 --> 01:03:38,050
but also hear from the commission if there are any other

1121
01:03:38,050 --> 01:03:41,349
items that you would like to see in a future agenda item or

1122
01:03:41,349 --> 01:03:44,519
would like to see staff bring back either in a memo.

1123
01:03:44,519 --> 01:03:47,519
However, we can address it that way as well.

1124
01:03:47,519 --> 01:03:49,519
Great.

1125
01:03:49,519 --> 01:03:52,139
Do we have anything for consideration to add to the matrix,

1126
01:03:52,139 --> 01:03:52,519
Daniel?

1127
01:03:52,519 --> 01:03:57,550
Yeah. Sort of on a, I think a more successful note. Does

1128
01:03:57,550 --> 01:04:00,929
anybody know anything about that warehouse that's being

1129
01:04:00,929 --> 01:04:04,219
redeveloped on like the far east part of Oak Street right

1130
01:04:04,219 --> 01:04:06,519
up against the railroad tracks?

1131
01:04:06,519 --> 01:04:10,110
If those people would like to come and tell us about their

1132
01:04:10,110 --> 01:04:12,519
awesome project that I love to death.

1133
01:04:12,519 --> 01:04:14,519
You mean the one right next to Twice is Nice?

1134
01:04:14,519 --> 01:04:15,519
Yeah.

1135
01:04:15,519 --> 01:04:20,369
The event planners. They have created an events hall and

1136
01:04:20,369 --> 01:04:24,519
they've done a beautiful job with the build out of that.

1137
01:04:24,519 --> 01:04:27,519
Yeah, they should come and brag about it if they want.

1138
01:04:27,519 --> 01:04:28,519
Yes.

1139
01:04:28,519 --> 01:04:29,519
If anybody can extend an invite.

1140
01:04:29,519 --> 01:04:31,929
We can reach out to them. I've got, I think I might have

1141
01:04:31,929 --> 01:04:33,519
their contact information.

1142
01:04:33,519 --> 01:04:35,989
If you don't, I can get it. Mike's daughter is getting

1143
01:04:35,989 --> 01:04:37,519
married there in September.

1144
01:04:37,519 --> 01:04:39,519
Perfect. Go for it. Awesome.

1145
01:04:39,519 --> 01:04:41,519
But I believe Tim Beatty is the one doing that, right?

1146
01:04:41,519 --> 01:04:43,519
I'm not sure. But it's going to be gorgeous.

1147
01:04:43,519 --> 01:04:45,519
I do the tax return.

1148
01:04:45,519 --> 01:04:48,519
We're all connected.

1149
01:04:48,519 --> 01:04:49,519
He's a good friend.

1150
01:04:49,519 --> 01:04:56,519
Roman, when is the next HLC meeting?

1151
01:04:56,519 --> 01:04:57,519
Is it not in May?

1152
01:04:57,519 --> 01:04:58,519
Should be May.

1153
01:04:58,519 --> 01:05:01,630
I just want to date so you can, when you reach May 14th. So

1154
01:05:01,630 --> 01:05:03,519
when we reach out, we'll make sure.

1155
01:05:03,519 --> 01:05:05,519
Thank you so much, Danny.

1156
01:05:05,519 --> 01:05:10,320
Yeah, when they started that, I arrived here right when

1157
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:13,800
they were going to be getting started and tried to talk

1158
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:14,519
them into doing the tax credit program.

1159
01:05:14,519 --> 01:05:17,519
But they already had it kind of all mapped out.

1160
01:05:17,519 --> 01:05:20,500
Well, and it's great because that got handed over into

1161
01:05:20,500 --> 01:05:22,519
those hands right as you got here.

1162
01:05:22,519 --> 01:05:25,739
But before that, for about two years, there were these guys

1163
01:05:25,739 --> 01:05:28,920
who wanted to turn it into lofts and they just got lost in

1164
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:30,519
the construction of it.

1165
01:05:30,519 --> 01:05:34,539
They couldn't, they could only play a short game, not the

1166
01:05:34,539 --> 01:05:35,519
long game.

1167
01:05:35,519 --> 01:05:39,519
Which happens to a lot of people in historic preservation.

1168
01:05:39,519 --> 01:05:45,530
On the matrix here, we do have the RFP item under ongoing

1169
01:05:45,530 --> 01:05:48,519
items educate citizens regarding incentives.

1170
01:05:48,519 --> 01:05:53,260
We have the RFP out. I think it has another week before the

1171
01:05:53,260 --> 01:05:55,519
submissions have to be due.

1172
01:05:55,519 --> 01:05:58,460
So that's going to allow us to have community meetings that

1173
01:05:58,460 --> 01:06:00,519
involves a lot of community meetings.

1174
01:06:00,519 --> 01:06:03,260
That's going to be an opportunity to educate citizens and

1175
01:06:03,260 --> 01:06:05,940
hopefully for citizens to educate us about what kind of

1176
01:06:05,940 --> 01:06:07,519
incentives they want to see.

1177
01:06:07,519 --> 01:06:10,519
So it gets to Roy's question there.

1178
01:06:10,519 --> 01:06:14,570
And that can become part of the new city of Denton historic

1179
01:06:14,570 --> 01:06:18,519
preservation plan to replace the 1986 one.

1180
01:06:18,519 --> 01:06:22,010
So that but I'm hoping that document is a concise document

1181
01:06:22,010 --> 01:06:25,739
that deals strictly with with with preservation planning in

1182
01:06:25,739 --> 01:06:26,519
Denton.

1183
01:06:26,519 --> 01:06:31,519
It doesn't get into the surveying and those things.

1184
01:06:31,519 --> 01:06:37,519
There was one other item.

1185
01:06:37,519 --> 01:06:42,940
Did the the matrix doesn't have the Denton the historic

1186
01:06:42,940 --> 01:06:46,519
preservation code updates that Daniel mentioned.

1187
01:06:46,519 --> 01:06:50,119
Those those ordinance revisions are going to be

1188
01:06:50,119 --> 01:06:54,440
incorporated into the Denton development code when that

1189
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:57,940
goes forward, which I'm not sure how far away, but they

1190
01:06:57,940 --> 01:06:59,519
will be integrated as a part of that.

1191
01:06:59,519 --> 01:07:02,469
And so there'll be an opportunity for more community input

1192
01:07:02,469 --> 01:07:04,519
as that final document goes through.

1193
01:07:04,519 --> 01:07:07,519
But the edits have been pretty much.

1194
01:07:07,519 --> 01:07:11,150
And so the Bell Avenue historic. Yes, that was hung up for

1195
01:07:11,150 --> 01:07:11,519
that, too.

1196
01:07:11,519 --> 01:07:13,519
So we don't know when that's going to be finalized.

1197
01:07:13,519 --> 01:07:16,519
All that has a city council, right? It's gone through us.

1198
01:07:16,519 --> 01:07:19,519
Yes, our that portion of that will be integrated.

1199
01:07:19,519 --> 01:07:28,519
Do we know how many months more of that?

1200
01:07:28,519 --> 01:07:32,090
We suspect that the development code will probably be

1201
01:07:32,090 --> 01:07:35,650
sometime in August to have its final adoption through

1202
01:07:35,650 --> 01:07:36,519
council.

1203
01:07:36,519 --> 01:07:41,179
So we're in the process next week will be rolling out the

1204
01:07:41,179 --> 01:07:45,840
last sub chapters of the proposed development code and the

1205
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:46,519
zoning map.

1206
01:07:46,519 --> 01:07:50,130
So we'll be walking through the entirety of what this

1207
01:07:50,130 --> 01:07:52,519
document is going to look like.

1208
01:07:52,519 --> 01:07:56,300
We'll take the public feedback will consolidate into a

1209
01:07:56,300 --> 01:07:59,679
single document and then we'll have it out for the public

1210
01:07:59,679 --> 01:08:00,519
for a month.

1211
01:08:00,519 --> 01:08:05,349
And then it'll go before the variety of bodies. So PNZ and

1212
01:08:05,349 --> 01:08:07,519
council for readings.

1213
01:08:07,519 --> 01:08:11,130
And then, like I say, probably sometime in August, it

1214
01:08:11,130 --> 01:08:16,909
should be if it's councils will approved and become then

1215
01:08:16,909 --> 01:08:19,520
the development code.

1216
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:22,520
I believe the historic resolution. Yes.

1217
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:25,880
One one of the sub chapters within the development code is

1218
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,520
historic preservation. Yes.

1219
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:37,520
All so in its entirety. Thank you so much.

1220
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:42,520
Is there anything else on here that we need to discuss?

1221
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:47,520
Is there anything that needs to be added?

1222
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:53,520
Okay.

1223
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:58,520
And that should conclude our meeting movie adjourned.

1224
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:04,520
Second, we conclude the meeting at six forty five.

1225
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:07,520
Digity dog.

1226
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:10,520
Great picture in the paper Roman.