Aug 25, 2018 City Council on 2018-08-25 8:30 AM

Alright everybody let's go ahead and get started. All the mics are live so... I want to call this meeting to order of the Dent City Council on Saturday August the 25th 2018. We do have a quorum. This is our annual retreat. I call the item is item A which is our only item. Hold a retreat discussion facilitated by Rick Robinson with Ramsey Consulting Group and give direction priorities concerning various issues. Is it okay to read the whole thing? I move approval. Yeah, yeah. That's right. Absolutely. Out of order, point of order. We didn't have a second or... That's right. Okay. Rick? I'd like to thank everybody in advance for the time you spent with Rick. Sharing your views of how things are going. What you'd like to see worked on, addressed today. We built the agenda here based upon feedback and comments from all of you. Obviously as we get some new dynamics on the council as we always do each year after an election. I think part of what we're trying to do today is make sure that we understand how as a group we're going to move forward. Function as a team as possibly as possible. Also make sure that we come to some understanding of how we 're going to operate as a group. Both from the city council perspective and also with your management team as well. There's a lot of issues on the table today about in terms of strengthening our relationship as a team. Identifying goals moving forward. Expectations of each other. I'm hoping at the end of the day everybody believes this is a great use of your time. At this point, anything you'd like to... I do have a question. First of all, thanks everybody for being here. On these different sort of individual topics. I mean we tried to list everything I guess that we could possibly be talking about. But it's not like we're going to go over these as an individual agenda item. It's just that if they come up in the discussion, we'll be covered by talking about them. Alright, fantastic. Yep. Well thank you. And I'd like to reiterate what Todd and the mayor said. Is thank you all for the time you were able to... Those of you that were able to carve out some time to meet with me prior to the meeting. And I thank you for your time today. I realize this is a significant investment of your time. And you probably have other things that you normally do on a Saturday. My commitment to you, to everyone in the room, is that I will do everything in my power to make sure it's a good use of your time. And that when we leave today, that you are going to say that that was time well spent. In order to accomplish that, I'm going to ask of you certain things. Number one, I'm going to ask you to be present. I'm going to ask you to participate. We've got some small group exercises. I've seen in the past where people will kind of check out of those small group exercises. And those are usually the people who say that wasn't working in time. Other people get fully involved. And those people typically say, "I got a lot out of that, and that was really a good use of my time." So I'm going to ask that you fully participate. I'm going to ask that we respect each other's time. We can take as long of the breaks when we do take breaks. They can be as long as we want them. This is our time. But when we do say we're going to come back, just I'm asking that you come back when we say we will. I was able to talk to you all about what you would like to get out of this day in order for you to feel it was a good use of your time. I'll go over that in a minute. But I'm going to just come over a couple things I thought was interesting, because I had the great opportunity to meet with those that were on council last year. And I thought it was interesting to see, because I asked the same question to start off, is what do you see are the three biggest challenges facing the city in the next five years or so? Last year it was managing growth, infrastructure issues, and the relationship, council staff, citizens, and businesses. This year, the six years I was able to meet with, managing growth was pretty much the number one thing on everybody's list. Two was infrastructure industries. Affordable housing and the homeless issue came up quite a bit. Mobility and public transportation, which I think is kind of related to the managing growth, kind of an outcome of that, and to continue to restructure city government and expand transparency. So those are what you guys said were some of the big challenges facing the city. I then asked you if you could only get traction in one area , what would that be? And overwhelmingly last year it was relationships and trust . I think that was between the council and staff and between the council members themselves. This year, streets was the most popular answer. Housing affordability, new business friendly development code, and public transit. I think that's a reflection that shift from what you said the most important thing was last year to this year, is kind of a result of some of the restructuring that has gone on within your city government and the rebuilding of that trust between council and staff. So I thought that was an interesting thing to see. Any questions about those comments? All right. I did ask you further on in that discussion is, you know, what would you like to accomplish during your retreat so that when we leave Saturday afternoon, early evening, 2 a.m., when we do leave, what would you like to have accomplished so that you can walk away saying that was really a good use of my time? So better to find a relationship between council and staff. I had two of those responses to reiterate our duties and the role of council. Create a shared vision to walk back from positions to find consensus or depoliticize, to communicate better, create a safe environment to discuss thoughts and the nature of meetings and how to keep ourselves on task, determine how to make meetings more efficient and shorter and/or shorter, and deeper understanding of each other's passions and motives. So we created an agenda, and there it is, that is intended to help meet those things that you said you wanted to get out of today so that you would feel that this is a good use of your time . So we've just covered the first item on the agenda, more or less. I will bring up other things that we talked about in the meetings when it's appropriate. When we talk about vision, I'll share with you what people shared with me about what their vision is. When we talk about role of council, I will share with you what people viewed the role of council today. But I have a little bit of background to put it into context on why the things we're talking about today are important to them, just to kind of get us in the right place and give you another way to think about this. Then we've got two things. One of the things you said you guys wanted to do is to be able to understand each other better and be able to communicate better. That was really the underlying purpose of doing the disc assessment that I sent out. I appreciate all of you getting those -- I hope my text just came out. I appreciate you getting those all done in the prescribed timeframe. Hopefully that wasn't too burdensome. And hopefully you were able to read the report and get a little bit of background. What I'm going to talk about is kind of the underlying model that makes that disc assessment and other assessments like that work. It's based on the work of William Marsden. He was a pretty interesting guy. They actually just made a movie about him last year. In addition to doing this model, he also created Wonder Woman in his way. That's the behavioral style preference. We'll talk about why that's important and how we use that to improve our communications. We have a little exercise around that. The other thing we talked about is councils in large part win or lose as a team. There's not a whole lot that any one individual can get done all by themselves on an island. So you need other people and you need to work together. And when you look at city government, councils and staffs have to work together as a team in order to get good stuff done. This five dysfunctions model is based on the work of Patrick Calincioni. It's really kind of a good model to see where you are as a team and what kind of dysfunctions might be preying on you to keep you from being affected. I got a little assessment that's going to help kind of asc ertain where you guys are and talk about how, if desirable, you can overcome those dysfunctions. Also, within the discussions I had with you, I asked you what do you see as the role of council in solving the issues that are facing the cities? And there was a wide range of responses. And then I asked, do you think the other council members share your view? And the majority of you said either no or not really or not sure. So one of the things I do with councils is to have you guys write your own definition of your role. It does a couple of things. One, it helps me put a stake in the ground so if we start heading out on a money trail, I can pull us back and say, that's really interesting. The other thing it can do is it can enable you to hold each other accountable for staying focused on the things that you say is your role or what you should be focused on. So that's really the principal reason for doing that. Very similar with the rules of engagement. So we'll start talking about how are you going to agree to treat each other as you fulfill your role. And then we'll expand that, say, okay, what are you guys going to, how are you going to agree to deal with staff, treat with staff and constituents, et cetera. And these will be in your own words. Then right around lunch, we're going to talk about, give you an opportunity to kind of make a list of what are the things you need from staff? What do you expect from staff? What do you need in order to fulfill your role in council? And at the same time, and this came up in our discussions, is a request from several of you is that it would be nice to know what staff needs from us as well. So staff's going to go off and get a list of things that they need from you in order for them to be more effective. We'll share that at a conversation. There's a missing bullet. We're going to talk about vision after that. We need the vision and develop a common statement of vision, what you want to create for the city of Denton. And based on the vision, what are the key objectives or what are the three to five major things that the staff needs to be focused on in order to achieve that in the next 18 months? And the last thing we're going to talk about is a little bit about structure and policy and meeting structure and meeting times and agenda process. Just are there any things that you need that you want to get talked about or changed in the way you go about doing business together to make you more effective and efficient? So that's the agenda today. That's all we're going to do. And if it seems like a lot it is, I appreciate you all being there and going through this with me. So just in terms of context, why is all this stuff I'm going to talk about important? And it all has to do with leadership. So the first question we need to answer is does leadership matter? Is leadership important? There's two types of questions I'll ask. One of them is rhetorical, for which I don't expect an answer. This is the other kind. I don't know what you call that. So is leadership important? Yes. Okay. Outstanding. I hope you feel that way because you're all leaders. Everyone in this room is a leader. So I hope you feel that what you do is important because it is vitally important. So the next question is why? Why is leadership important? Because it will set the course, right? So you've got to know where you're going. All right. You've got to know where you're going. Why is that important? Because it almost is like a launching point, right? Either we're going this way and I'm amenable to that or we're going this way and it gives me something to start kicking and screaming about. Okay. So it just kind of starts a conversation if you will. Okay. Very good. Yes. Others are looking up to you. Others are looking up to you. Excellent. So it's important we do what? Lead well. Show that example. Excellent. Yes. Absolutely. Anybody else have an idea of why leadership is important? Yes. Without leadership, change can't happen. Without leadership, we're not going to have change. Yeah. The basic premise that we run off of is that leadership is important because every organization exists and comes into being to achieve a certain goal or goals. And we call those Horizon 1 set of goals. So you come into being to achieve certain things and you work really hard and you get there. And you do your own happiness. You say, I made it. I did it . But then you look up and you say, oh wait, there's more. We could do more. We could be better. We could achieve more . And most organizations, all but two organizations I worked with in the last 20 some odd years, have wanted more. The two organizations that didn't, you'll see this a little bit, because it's impossible to stay where you were at. You're either moving forward or you're moving back. And they saw declining income and they saw margins, fees and all this other stuff, deteriorating infrastructure. They tried to stay where they're at and it's impossible. And when they saw all of that, they said, oh gosh, we better want more or we're going to end up with less. So what is it you suppose will get you from Horizon 1 to Horizon 2 level of success? Communication. Well, communication is part of it. Vision, strategy, vision, strategy, communication, vision and strategy. What is all that taking? Put it together. What is the title? Yeah, Leader. Leadership. Yeah. Leadership is going to get you from point A to point B. You can get here on the backs of a few people working really, really hard. And if you don't want more, if you don't want better, you don't really need a whole lot of leadership. You want to just muck along and bump along where you're at. Leadership is not all that important, but where it becomes important is that if you want better. So we further define this as Horizon 1 level is the current results that you're getting. And results, the things on this side of the equation are things like tax revenues, property tax revenues, sales tax revenues, population, citizen satisfaction, etc. All those things that are the end of processes. Those are results. Those are being delivered by the way you 're performing today. And your performance side of the equation is your people, your process, your technology, your structure, your controls, your culture, your capability. All of that taken together is what's delivering the results you're getting today. If you want more, then you want better results in the future. You guys want more? You want better results? Question is, can you keep doing what you're doing and get better results? And the answer is no. What is that? Insanity. I'm sorry, that's the definition of insanity, keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result. So if I want better results in the future, I'm going to have to change something on this side of the equation. Think about that. You're going to have to change people, process, technology, culture, organizational capability. Something on that list has to change if you want better results in the future. I think you guys have done a lot of that from what I've seen in the last couple of years. So you'll notice that this arrow, though, goes from the results to the performance. Your current performance is delivering your current results . Why do you think this arrow goes from the other way on the top line? Which one's driving up here? Down here, your performance is driving your results. What's driving up here? Your results are driving your performance. Your results are going to drive what needs to change in your performance, right? So you've got to figure out where you want to go first. That's what that means. And then you figure out how to get there. What needs to change to get there? If you want drastic, dramatic changes in the results up here, you need drastic, dramatic changes over here. If you just want incremental changes over here, you don't need a whole lot of dramatic, drastic changes over here. Where this really hit home to me is when I got open enough to start thinking about maybe retiring someday. Of course, I decided to have a daughter nine years ago, so I don't think it's ever going to happen. When I was younger, I would go to work, and I was in a 401( k), and I would contribute a certain amount of money, and they would send me a letter every year telling me when I had to retire and how much money I was going to have. Is that a good way to plan for retirement? What does a good retirement planner do? Where do they start ? The gold. They start with gold in the end. They say, "Okay, what do you want to do when you retire?" And how much money? And they'll say, "Okay, you're going to need X number of dollars, so here's what you've got to do to get there." And if I'm 55 and I don't have any money saved and I don't want $4 million in retirement, I have some pretty drastic strategies I have to look for, most of which are probably illegal if I want to get there. But if I'm 20 years old and I want to retire at 70 and I'm contributing 10% of my income, the changes are less drastic . You know what I mean? And that's why we start with that. Now, what is it that you suppose? Why are organizations -- what kind of energy keeps you down? Comfortable. Oh, yeah. This is your comfort zone. Absolutely. By definition, if I'm going to start performing up here, what do I need to be? What am I going to ask people to be? Leaders. I'm going to ask them to be leaders, but I'm going to ask them to be -- are I going to let them be comfortable or am I going to ask them to be uncomfortable? By definition, if you're going to make this transition, you 're asking people to be uncomfortable. Not many people woke up this morning and said, I'm going to see how uncomfortable I am. Yes, I wanted to make sure I asked Todd to have the sound down and make sure -- because we're recording this, so I'm not sure if you're being picked up on that front mic or on our mic. It sounds usable. If he's on the podium, it'll sound better , but I want him to be comfortable. Maybe turn the mic the direction towards you. You don't have to sit there and hold it or be right behind it, but just so it'll pick it up, because I want to make sure that you get everything. Is that better? Okay. Fantastic. Awesome. I'm going to be staring. No, no. You're on camera. I'm usually loud enough. If I get too loud, let me know. This is people's comfort level. There's a lot of energy that keeps you here, because this is what got you where you are today, and you are successful. You created something great here. You want it to be better? Absolutely. But there's a lot of energy that says, let's keep it here. It's always worked for it before. Just know that if you want more and you want to make that change, that's why people aren't really resistant to change so much as we think they are, because people understand that no growth happens without change. It just hurts. My wife taught me that going back to the gym is starting to work out after a couple of weeks. Man, I'm just sore. It hurts. I think about it, and I'm like, well, good, because now I know I'm doing something. But given my own devices, I'm not going to purposely go about and do something that hurts or be uncomfortable. I have to have a compelling reason. That's why we talk about strategy. One little thing about leadership. There's a couple different ways. There's the carrier way and the stick way. This is the stick way. I love this, so I kind of throw it in. But you can get more with the carrot than you can with the stick, is kind of the feeling, because this guy is not really looking to follow a leader. We said leadership is important. It helps us get from point A to point B. What are the roles of a leader? We've identified three distinct roles of leadership. You said one of them before. What's the number one, the first role? It was said when I asked why leadership is important. Set direction. Set direction. Excellent. So why do you think that comes first? Until you set direction, none of the conversations you have are really relevant. Once I set direction, then I have to execute strategy. I think it was Ben Franklin. It was attributed to Ben Franklin, is that a vision without the ability to achieve it is an hallucination. In addition to being sane, we've all hallucinated at one point or another. We've had these great ideas, but we have no idea how to get them done. So we have to execute the strategies to be effectively used . And third, we have to engage and inspire people. It doesn't say motivate, because guess what? If they show up to work, they're already motivated. The word motivation has the same root word as the word motor, locomotive, automotive. It's all about movement. If they're moving, they're motivated. I don't know what they're motivated to do, but what we need to do is get them engaged. Yes, please. And I would add for representative leadership, which we are , to listen to people as part of that engagement process. Absolutely. That's one of the ways you're going to go about getting them engaged and getting them inspired. Well, what do I want to engage and inspire with? I want to engage and inspire to be relevant to this top line. And all too often, we get people engaged at this level. And especially when you're looking at the staff, right? Because our job descriptions and performance reviews, a lot of this is all written around this. And we got to think about writing it for the next. And helping people be relevant to that future state. So there's levers that we can pull within each of the setting directions, all about strategy development. But engaging or executing strategy is all about your structure and your infrastructure and your controls you have in place. And those aren't financial controls, per se. Those are feedback loops and measurement systems and KPI and those kinds of things. Engaging and inspiring is all about your organizational culture and your organizational capability. None of the rest of these are relevant until you know where you're going. Until the direction's set, you can't have a relevant conversation about structure. Just something as simple as an org structure. Just as an example, my sister works for a corporate relocation company and her client's ExxonMobil. And she called me one day and she said, "We are thinking of going from three managers in our department to two managers in another department." I said, "Okay." She goes, "You know a little something about this, right?" I said, "Yeah, maybe a little bit." I said, "I'll tell you what. You buy me lunch, I'll tell you what I think." So I picked a really nice place for lunch. And we go and we sit down and after we order, she puts two org charts in front of them. One had three managers on it, one had two. They were beautiful. Well done. And her question to me was, "Do you think it'll work?" And I gave her the standard consultant answer. No matter what the question is, a consultant will always give you the same answer. What's the standard consultant answer? What's the objective ? Well, that's the follow-up. What's the standard? No matter what you ask, they're going to say, "It depends. Very good depends." I'll turn you all into consultants before we're done. Now, being a good consultant, you have to know what it depends on. And what it depends on is what Josh said. What are you trying to achieve with this? What's your goal? What's your strategy? What's your vision for this? And she goes, "Well, we hadn't talked about that." I said, "Well, then go for it." I mean, if you don't know where you're going, it really doesn't matter what your car looks like. One structure is going to work as well as another. Do you have the right controls in your organization? Are you measuring the right things? Well, it depends. What's your strategy? Do you have the right culture to get you where you want to go? It depends on where your strategy is. Do you have the right organizational capability? It all depends on what your direction is. So what we're going to talk a little bit about today is that common vision. And the intention there is to get some sort of direction, some common direction of what you guys are all pulling for. So the rest of these conversations can start. And we can talk about it in a meaningful way. So if leadership gets you from Horizon 1 to Horizon 2, a lot of what this change over here has to do with leadership, or at least has to start with leadership. And I just wanted to give you guys a little context of why what you're going to talk about today is so critically important. The next thing we're going to discuss is kind of how we communicate better together and what kind of dysfunctions might be acting on our teams. I like to start off our conversation around this by pointing out that it's not a personality assessment. Before we go on to the next topic, are you okay with comments that make questions with the direction, to help us get back on direction? I was kind of provoked a little by something Councilmember Arnott said. Where does the vision come from? It's not necessarily all about what's in our heads, right? We're supposed to be responsive, kind of divine direction from what our constituents want. I mean, in a way, ideally, you'd love to do something like this after a citywide read on preferences and goals. I think there's a survey that's coming up at some point in the future, right? What we want, hopefully, is what the people of Denton want. Right. Well, I hope so, because they wrote it for you guys. So hopefully. You guys had some ideas that came up, I think, from the campaign trail, and came from your own ideas, and maybe for some reason, maybe why you ran. I'll show you what the responses were when we get to that vision piece. Any other comments or questions before we get on to the next topic? All right. So when I talk about this, the number one thing I want to do when we introduce the topics, I want to make it clear this is not a personality test. It 's a behavioral style preference assessment. And the reason that's really important is because behavior is observable, it's situational based, flexible, dynamic, and it's based on your thoughts and beliefs. I would never ask somebody to change who they are. Changing somebody's personality, I mean, your personality's ingrained, it's not going to change anyway. And I don't think it's right of me or anybody else to ask people to change who they are, or their personality. However, I have no problem asking people to change their behavior. And as a leader, a lot of times, it's necessary to ask employees or others to change their behavior. And that's why I think it's important. The other thing is, we will, was everybody able to see the results? Yes. Well, I have a handout that has kind of a summary of where everybody is and where they fall on the spectrum. It presents those results to you as if you're a D or an I or an S or a C. But we're all four. Everybody is all four. We have the capability to behave as a D, an I, an S, or a C. And it's really important because you can't hop out and say , oh, well, you know, I'm a D, I'm a high D, you know, go figure. You're just going to have to live with it. You can act in the way a C would act and be data driven. You don't like it. It's not energizing to you and it's a struggle, but you can do it. So I mentioned that we were going to talk a little bit about Marston, William Marston and Marston's model. And they don't talk a lot about this in the disk, but this is the underlying model that makes all these four quadruped behavioral style preferences work. So William Marston's model, certain people feel that they are more powerful than the environment and other people feel they are less powerful. Certain people feel the environment is unfavorable and others feel the environment is favorable and pretty much like the way things are. Well, if I'm more powerful than the environment in my own mind and the environment is unfavorable, what am I going to do? You're going to change it. I'm like, try. I'm going to change it. And that's what they call de-go-dominant. Why? Because it needs to change and I can. If I'm less powerful than the environment and the environment is unfavorable, what do I do? In that scenario, I can't change it, so I tend to study it. I want to figure out why it works and what are kind of the mechanisms that make it work. And they call that conscientiousness. If I'm more powerful than the environment and I like the way things are, I'm not going to change it. I'm going to more influence it. If I'm less powerful than the environment and the environment is favorable and I like the way things are, how do I feel about change? If I'm less powerful than the environment and the environment is favorable, I'm scared to run a fight, a tooth, and nail because any change that's happening is being done to me. And I don't like it and I like the way things are, so they call this steadiness. There's another overlay. Somebody else put on this. It kind of helps when we're trying to figure out where people are coming from. D's and I's are quantity focused. S's and C's are more quality focused. D's and C's are task orientations and I's and S's are more people oriented. So if I'm an I, I'm quantity of people. I'm having a party and you're all invited. Oh, you got friends in from out of town? Bring them along. I'll invite people that have bumped into the store where I 'm buying supplies. Oh yeah, we're having a party. More than merry. Bring them along. And S, I'm having a party and my eight best friends are coming. And don't, under any circumstances, call me at the eleventh hour and ask if you can bring a friend. I've already got a seating chart and a menu plan and I've got everything to buy and I'm ready to go. And you're going to throw me in a tizzy. A D walks up to an elevator, presses a button. Doors don't open. What does a D do? Press it again. Press it again. Why ? I'm more powerful in this environment. David, this environment needs to change. It's not opening because the eyes on the other floor are open door and we go , come on in and play your music. The D is in the corner. The C read the plaque. And counts of people. They're estimating everybody's weight. Trying to figure out if they should get off or not. And the S is already taking the stairs. What does a D look like driving? A leader. We get in and out of traffic, right? They're headed south on I-35. They want to be in the lead. Well, the leader's in the way. But they don't care. The I's got a cart full of people and they're on their cell phone to somebody else. The C is the one driving and say, okay, I'm going 67.5 miles an hour. I got 82 and a half miles to go. So my ETA should be 403B. They get real excited until they get within a couple of minutes. And they recalculate their miles per gallon every time they fill up. Just for fun. And the S is the one at the four way stop. I know it's my turn. You go ahead. Don't worry about me. You go first. Get a good feel for the different styles. You say to a D, let's go out. Hey, let's go to dinner. What does a D say? What does a D do? Hey, let's go to dinner. They say, let's go. Jump in the car. You're good to the block. Where we going? Ready, fire, aim. The I says, yeah. Let's call Bob and Sue. They're a lot of fun. The S's and C's immediately go to the internet. They start to research menus and calorie counts. Which one of these style preference do you suppose would make the best race car driver? You got one vote for D? D. Raise your hand if you think it 's a D. It's a trick question. It's not going to control what you do, but it's going to control your approach to it. Why does a D drive a race car? Why would D be a race car driver? To win. Why else can you do anything? To win. Why does the I? When you win, everybody likes you. Quantity of people. Everybody's going to love me when I win. The S is doing it because they want to be part of the team. The C, if you look at NASCAR, it's more of a C activity than a D activity because the winner isn't Ricky Bobby that wants to go fast. It's the guy that better monitors fuel burn, tire wear, and all of that minutiae and know when to pit and manage to pit better. It's more of a C and an S activity because it's the teamwork that makes it work. That's your dessert. You're grabbing the Cipcomia Circle again and again. Turn right. Left. Left. Sorry, turn left. Turn left. The only reason I know that, if I'm not a big NASCAR guy, the most accurate description is two hours of rednecks turning left. That's your P in NASCAR. I'll take your word for it. Which one of those four is most likely to join an organization or company golf league? I. It's another trick question. Remember, it's not going to control what you do, but why would a D join the golf league ? Why else do you play this sport? I mean, that's the only reason for a game, right? That's what makes it worthwhile is the win. But the I's going to do it. Why? The interaction. The interaction. The camaraderie. After we play, we go up to the 19th hole, we have a beer, we tell jokes. Why would an S join the league? That's what everyone's doing. What's that? That's what everyone's doing. Yeah, their friends are there. It's the same day of the week. And a C can not only tell you what they score in the hole, they can tell you what you score in the hole. And why it was a two stroke penalty when you kicked the ball out behind the bush. And they also clean their clubs a lot. All right. Which one makes the best leader? The I, S, or C? It depends. All right. Step one of consultant 101. Step two is to know what it depends on. So what does it depend on? The situation. Yeah. What's needed at the time. Yeah. So the best leader, this is not going to determine how good a leader you are. It's going to determine your approach to leadership. Right. It's it's going to say, you can think. Somebody give me a president. Current or past that was a dean. Lincoln. Jackson. Lincoln Jackson. I'll take your word for that. What? Reagan. Something a little more recent. Reagan, yeah. Right now. What do you think Trump is? D. Off the charts. D . I think. Somebody give me a recent president that was an I . Clinton. Clinton was definitely very high. Obama. Obama maybe I, R, S. Or C. I think you could argue C for Obama. Yeah. Attention. I think they boy he's more people who are in the task force. There's no reason I would say an iron hat. But yeah, Clinton most definitely an I. S. Maybe Obama. Eisenhower. Carter. Carter is most definitely an S. How about a C. George H. David. The first George Bush, the first. I'd see him as a C. Gerald Ford I think was a C. Washington . You know, I don't know enough about him to eventually guess. But the point is that's the pinnacle of leadership in the free world. Those people reach the very top of the leadership pyramid and they had different style preferences. So this is, you know, your behavioral style preference doesn't determine, you know, what you're going to do. You can be a great leader from any of the four styles. There is no wrong style for anything. Now, it can make it easier or harder. Now, I mentioned before, we're all all four. We have a little bit of you're not zero. Some of you are very low in certain style preferences, but that's fine. My lowest is I. Matter of fact, it's so low or it used to be so low that when I first took it, I said they gave me the description of the I and people. I said, yeah, yeah, those are people I got no use for. I don't have that kind of time. I've come to appreciate them more over time. But one of my jobs in a past life is they would drop me in Traverse City, Michigan. I had to go to a cocktail party with four hundred fifty of the highest ranking automotive executives in the U.S. And I had to meet and get business cards from as many of them as I could. Now, I'm a D with a C backup, which means I'm very passive. How do you think I like going to a cocktail party where I knew nobody and I had to meet people and make small talk? They really liked it or didn't like it so much? I would rather have major oral surgery than go with that. But could I do it? Yeah. It took a lot of energy, though. I mean, I would exhaust it . Now, you got a high eye. A high eye gets done with that. Man, they they're pumped. They're ready to go. They are energized because that's what gives them energy. Part of what this tells you is what are the things that give you energy and what are the things that suck your energy? And for a D, C, going to a cocktail party where you don't know anybody is an energy sucker. You come out and that just exhausts. Now, if you're high eye, you're energized. If I'm a D and we're going fast paced, boom, boom, boom, we're making decisions. We're taking names and kicking butt. We're moving and we're shaking. I think we're doing good stuff. Man, I'm energized . I go all day long. If I'm not high C, you give me a spreadsheet to read, better bring it with a cup of coffee because I am going to be out in about 15 minutes. So it tells us how we prefer to behave and what energizes us and what sucks our energy. Any questions? Everybody feel fairly comfortable with all this? Now, I'm happy to send you guys the slides. I apologize. I knew I was forgetting to do one thing and hopefully only one because the setup was so smooth. So like me, I couldn't remember what it was. My computer just reminded me. Now, one of the things I want to talk about is this is not a skill assessment. It's a preference assessment. And this is important because just because I prefer to behave in a certain way doesn't mean I'm good at it. If you're a high D, it doesn't mean that you're good at making decisions. It means you're comfortable making decisions. It doesn't mean you make good ones. As a matter of fact, the most unhappy person I have ever met in my entire life, I'll give you a description. I'll see if you can figure out what her behavioral style preference was. So I was in a past life. I ran a billing department for a local location company up in Connecticut. And I had 12 women work for me and there were three distinct groups. And there was one woman that was not a part of any of the groups. Very cliquish they were. But this woman would get one group to talk about the other group until they said something bad. And then she'd run over to the other group and she'd say, " You won't believe what they just said about you." So they would say something bad about that group. So she'd run over here and she'd say, "Did you hear what they said about you?" And she would constantly do that and just keep these groups fighting. And for the life of me, I couldn't figure out what she was trying to achieve. Now, D's are all about action. I's are all about harmony. S is all about process and loyalty. And C's are all about data. What do you think her behavioral style preference was? Anybody want to guess? It was allowed I. Yeah, it was I. That was her preference. She wanted to create harmony. She was so bad at it. She sucked so bad at it. It was so important to her that the only way she could create harmony and think people liked her is to get them to hate each other. So it's a behavioral style preference. It means I want to do this. It doesn't mean I'm good at it or I'm equipped to do it. So don't hire somebody saying, "Hey, we need better decisions here. Let's get more D." Yeah, they'll make them. They'll make them all day long. They'll keep moving. And they'll leave a whole bunch of mess in the way. So that's the point. It's behavioral style preference. So it's not personality. It's how I behave. We're all four, so you can behave in any of the four quadrants. It may be difficult, but you can do it. And it's a preference, not a skill. So I encourage don't hire, don't staff based on behavioral style preference. We'll talk, if I can't hire staff or any of that stuff from it, what good is it? We'll get that in a minute. I just got to catch up because I have a tendency to get way ahead of my slides. So this is Marston's model. This is pretty much what we drove, drew. This is, let's see , we covered all that. I can send you the slides if anybody's interested. There's more detail in here about the breakdown. And if you read the report, you'll get a lot of this in your disc report. I want to talk a little bit more of that in a more focused way. But this is just the BIS and C. Oh yeah, there's one thing I missed. Is the question that these different styles want to answer. Right? So a D wants to know what? What are we going to do? The I wants to know who? Who's going to do it and how they feel about it. The S wants to know how? What is our process for this? And the C wants to know why. So it's interesting. I find this kind of an interesting chart. We'll stop and comment on this one for a second. In normal situations, a D is in charge of this I.C.U.D. under pressure, they start to demand stuff. And you see Khrushchev Baynish, she wanted to do it. In extreme behavior, when things get really stressful, they'll just leave. The I's are persuasive, enthusiastic, charismatic. But under pressure, they start to oversell. Those of you that are I's might recognize that in yourself. And under extreme, they'll just give up their power. The S's are supportive and friendly. Under pressure, they 'll give in. And they act hurt and accused under extreme pressure. You guys have no one in your group that has a high S. As their most preferred style. Or even their backup style. This is, having been surrounded by S's most of my life, this is the martyr. The typical martyr. When things get really bad, don't worry about me, I'll be alright. But be really careful if you're encountering S's. Because loyalty is huge for them. And any perceived disloyalty is almost impossible for them to overcome. I'm married to a very high S. Her previous employer, there were some things that were perceived as disloyal. And she had to go get another job. She just couldn't. She could not overcome it. And it's very hard for people with that style of purpose. S's are careful and quiet. Under pressure, they get paralysis by analysis. And in extreme, they get emotional and they may attack. So that's behaviors in the extreme. And here's where we're at. So you tell me, what good is this model? What can you use this for? If I can't staff with it, I can hire again. No, they sell it. Ah, that's the first part. Excellent. That's the first implemented. The reason I think that this can be really useful and important, and the reason we're talking about it, is this very technical communication model. You've got somebody over here with a mouth sending a message, and somebody over here with an ear. And you've got these squiggle lines that interrupt the message. What do you think in a technical model they call the person sending the message? The sender. The sender is very good. He did it. And what do you think the person receiving the message is called? The receiver. You guys studied ahead of them. I told you it's technical. And they call these squiggly lines noise. And those are the things that interrupt the message. I'll maintain that the worst noise is right here in the head of the receiver. Because the sender is sending the message, the receiver is thinking. And the sender, let's say the sender is a D. What is a D? How does a D deliver messages? They give you a lot of background and how people think about it and how people feel. No, there's no time for that. So what does the D do? How do they deliver messages? Start in the middle, wrap up. Bottom line. I'm going to give you the bottom line. Here's the bulletin. And the C is over here, and the C is going, I wonder where they got the data. I wonder what the methodology was for the experiment. I wonder, blah, blah, blah. All that's going on in their head. They can't even hear what you have to say. And they get frustrated. They may be in anguish. Flip the other way, being a D. You've got a C sending a message to a D. How does the C deliver a message? There's a Y with a lot of data. Yeah. Look, I asked for a common point, and you're going to tell me how to build a watch. That's the deal. The D sitting there with all the background data, tapping their foot, going, I'm assuming you got a point. And I'd appreciate it if you get there. Sooner rather than later. Give me the bottom line. If we need the data, we'll go back for it. But don't give me all the research data for it. Right? You've got the D delivering a message to an I. See, he's going to bottom line it. As we said, what is the I thinking? Who's it going to impact? How are they going to feel about it? How does everybody feel about this? Do we have support? All that's going on. Plus, if I'm talking to an I, I usually kind of ease into it. How was your weekend? How was your fantasy football team? How are your kids? How's your wife? Now we can talk about business. You've got to kind of ease into it. So the number one rate that this is really useful to me is that if I know what your behavioral style preference is, I can communicate with you the way you like receiving information. Right? I'll often times ask people, who's responsible for the quality of the interaction between these two, the sender and the receiver? It's another trick question. It's you are, depending on where you sit. Because if I'm the sender, I need to communicate. I should be communicating with you the way you like to receive information. If I'm the receiver, I've got to get to my own noise and just take a deep breath and say, okay, they're going to get to the point. Or maybe I've got to help them get to the point. Or maybe if I'm a C, I've got to ask them the question, give me the background data. Make sense? And the implementation of this, as Deb started for us, number one is to know yourself. Number two is then to what? Know your audience. Know my audience, right? So that I can communicate in what they call the new golden or the platinum rule. What's the golden rule? Treat others the same. Treat other people the way you'd like to be treated. What does that model tell me? They don't work. Other people don't necessarily want to be treated the way I want to be treated. Have you ever tried to resolve a conflict? I mean, I have two employees. It was like, well, she said this about me and it hurt my feelings. The other employee says, what? You need to get a thicker skin. That wouldn't have bothered me. And they were both telling the truth. The one that actually had offended the other was treating the other person the way they want to be treated. And they didn't like it. So I would say this is about communicating with other people the way they'd like to be communicated to. It's really self-serving on my part because I want my message to get across. Any questions or comments about that? We've got a very high D group and I know you're all sitting there going, OK, I got it. What's that? [LAUGHTER] There you go. All right. So I have the facilitator report and I'll hand that to you guys in a little bit. But a couple of things jumped out. Is very, to a great degree, your cultural pace is active more than thoughtful. Which means you've got a lot of stuff going on in the Ds and I's, in the top part of this. And not a whole lot going on in the bottom. As a group. One of the things is if I'm really high in an area, and several of you are really high in the D, especially, you might have a tendency to overuse that. And a strength taken to excess is a weakness. So if I overuse it, it can hurt me, it can backfire. The other thing is you're really low in an area, like you guys are really low right here, that's a potential blind spot. You might not see the value of that perspective. All right. You guys are more questioning and skeptical than accepting and agreeable. So basically, you're on the top and you're over here. Pretty significant. You are a moderately high D, you have more D than the average group. And one of the notes in there is that your makes a culture of conflict with peers, especially with other high Ds. You can have a tendency to butt heads. I don't know if any of this is resonating or not. How do you think I got this bandaid on? Funnily enough, you're not one of the high Ds. That's what everybody else would be. You were asking for the bandaid. And then you guys as a group were very low S. There's not a single person in the room that had S as their most preferred style. Or even your backup. These are the characteristics that are important to S as a culture. And I just want to throw this out here for you guys to think about. Low S. So a high S culture, these are the things that will be important to them. Operation, loyalty, humility, thoughtfulness, and a team focus. When you say as a group, you mean council, you're including staff as well? Yes, everybody in the room. With the exception of the cameraman and the recording. Everybody around the tape. I find the cameraman to be very good on that. [laughter] So that's really good. And like I said, I'll hand out the Cilzare reports, like 17 pages, but I'll tell you where everybody falls. I just wanted to observe, I mean obviously that there's a really good characteristic in the low S category of cooperation that we have. But one thing that I like about being on this council that I've been in this group is, and also working with staff, is that there's not an expectation that if you are with me in this one area, you have to be loyal to me and to be together in all other areas. So I think that, that's just my point of view, I like that there's not a pressure to be loyal in this culture. That we can have a disagreement, move on to the next thing, have an agreement, move on, etc. Right. Yeah, it's nice that you guys are going to be able to disagree as long as you disagree in a healthy way. Because nothing great, let's face it, nothing of substance, nothing great was ever accomplished in the relationship. It's always a fairly rigorous and difficult working process that brings new, good ideas to the surface. But you gotta, I wanted to just kind of point out that this , you guys need in order to function effectively some of this, and you guys, this is where you have a potential blind spot . That's all I'm going to point out on that right now. To me, so far this illustrates how flexible it is possible to be in staff. Because the reason I asked the question about just general counsel, staff as well, staff manifests a lot of this. Right. And it surprises me to know that they're working hard to present that because that's not native. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we are all for it. So you can, if it's required, you can do it. Even though that might not be your preference. Now one of the things to note about D's working together is interesting to me is that most of the time a high D will allow another D to take the lead as long and until, as long as they agree with them, and until they think they're heading down the wrong path. And then now you'll see other people step in and say, well, wait a minute, we're going down the wrong way. We're going to change direction. So it's just kind of an interesting dynamic with that much D going on. See, to me, when you talked about leadership and you talked about sort of externally based type of concepts, direction, vision, you know, but for me, good leadership is to, number one, know yourself as these are supposed to help us do. Right. To know what your strengths are and your weaknesses. And then to be able to facilitate those where you're weak to know how to not get triggered. Right. To know how to engage in a way to be able to flex ibly move between these different types of characteristics to meet the need of that particular situation. Because a leader who's just one way all the time to me can be very ineffective. That's true. But it's interesting because there's advantages and disadvantages. Right. Some people there is one there's a profile that they call or I call kind of a flat line. I'm not real high in one area, I'm not real low in one area . I'm just kind of steady across the board. The advantage of that is it's easy for you to act different ways, depending on different environments, different situations. The disadvantage is nobody ever knows where you're coming from. And they don't know how to, you know, the advantage of being one, you know, having that strong preferred style is that I know how to communicate to you. And I know what to expect. Well, that's not what I was referring to. Because I think by knowing your, let's say, your highs, I'm a high seat. By knowing the data is a thing, I also have to know that sometimes that can slow down a process that can impede movement because then it can stagnate and slow it down. So it's not so much being a flat liner and you don't really , it's if you recognize your highs and your lows, how can I move between those and have a deeper understanding of myself personally? Because there's been times when, you know, just you don't do that. I don't do that. It can be very counterproductive. Yeah. And what you're talking about, too, that I agree with you 100 percent. A lot of times there's a maturity level that that that requires this for me and a lot of my life wasn't there. So I didn't have that awareness. Right. Which is another layer of why I'm not going to hire somebody based on their this preference. There's that growth. Yeah. You don't have to ask. I don't have to recognize you. For me, I'm extremely high. I very top. I but I appreciate the differences in all the other council members because I count on them to be who they are so that I can take what their questions are and absorb that. Because that's maybe not something that I'm thinking about. But so I think it works well as a group for everyone to have their strengths. Right. And then I feed off absolutely for sure. Yeah. It's nice to have some balance because there's good stuff in all four of those quadrants that that you guys need those elements. Absolutely. All right. So having spent a significant number of years in training, we talked for a little bit. Now it's important to me that I make sure that we because it's all genius up here. Believe it or not, it's just genius. But when it comes out here, a lot of times not so much. So I want to make sure that what we talked about what it said is what kind of got through. So what I have is four scenarios. And what I want you to do is to work in teams. Read the scenario. Don't overanalyze them. But take the information because the key here is what you got to understand yourself and your assessment did that for you. So you have to be able to read and understand other people where they're coming from so that you can communicate with them more effectively. So each one of these scenarios, you've got some information about somebody you have to communicate to. And these are business scenarios. And I noticed a couple of typos this morning. I apologize. My C wasn't up the bar to do the proofreading. But so you're going to read the scenario and it has a series of questions about it. Basically, the question is what behavioral style preference is this describing? What mistakes have you made in communicating with in the past and how can you improve your communications in the future? So I'm going to have three teams. You guys are a team. You guys are a team. One of the things that's going to help you is there are four scenarios, as I mentioned. How many behavioral style preferences are there? Four. Four. You might want to assume that there's one for each style. If you were to make that assumption, you'd be correct. So that's the first four pages. And then the rest of it is just kind of an overview of this. And then the last page is a little something I put together for another client on applying this. So if you've got to meet with somebody, think about first, what is your preferred style? Second is a little tool for determining what the behavioral style preference of the other person is. And then some thoughts about how you communicate to get through the noise. So still in the talking. What's that? Do you have extra time? So let's take about four minutes for each scenario. So don't overanalyze it. Read it. Actually, we'll do five. So we'll take 20 minutes and then we'll talk about it as a group. What group am I in? You're in the back row. Like that. If we could settle back in, I wanted to kind of debrief this. I have one more comment on the disk. And then we'll take a break before we get into the five dysfunction model. We've been going for a little while. So the first scenario, I've handed out all my sheets so I can't read you the scenario. But what did you guys come up with this behavioral style preference of the person that you're dealing with? D. D. You got a D here. You got a D. What did you guys get? What was that on the first one? The first one, yeah. You guys got D? All right. Excellent. So yeah, it was written to be a D. What were the tip-offs? Why did you pick D? Just get it done. All focused on the results. I love the statement that they make too. When you tried to tell them how people felt about it, what did you respond? You said, okay, people are frustrated. Well, of course they're frustrated. Get the dad gum thing in place. They won't be frustrated anymore. You're frustrated because you haven't done the job. They should be frustrated. I want them to be frustrated. Get it done. You won't be frustrated anymore. Got it? All right. Go. The backs don't care about your feelings. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Don't tell me how people feel. That's not a way to connect with me. Now, the challenge for a D, and this was what was told to me a long time ago, is that a leadership role as a D, you need to recognize the way other people feel is a data point. If you're a D or a C. That's got to be a data point that factors into your decision making, which was hard for me, especially as an immature D, was like, why should I care? Well, the reason you should care is that that's how things get done and how people feel doesn't matter. So, anyway, so very good. It was a D. And so what were the questions they asked you on that one? Well, it says where did you go wrong and what did you do differently, basically? Yeah. So where did you go wrong? Where did you guys come up with that? I said didn't focus on outcomes. Right. Didn't focus on outcomes. You talked about how people felt. And so what would you do differently? Let him win at golf. [laughter] Well, that only works if he doesn't know you let him win. Because that could backfire you on that. So, yeah. So, you know, of course, the thing to do, focus on the bottom line first. Make it very factual based. Make it, you know, keep to the facts. All right. Second scenario. I believe this is the one where the employee comes in, doesn't want to be disloyal, but it's going to tell you some frustrations that they have. Is that correct? All right. What is that employee's, what behavioral style is that written about? S. Yeah. What was your tip off that she was an S? That she plays in the company golf league and has a good sense of humor. [laughter] Well, don't they all? Habitat for humanity. Yeah, they don't. Well, that was an interesting one too because you think that that's an S, kind of behavior, kind of altruistic. But people do it for a whole bunch of different reasons, right? No, I'm kidding. You know, I mean, I went to the Peace Corps. I'm a D with a C backup. I went to the Peace Corps because I thought it would be really cool. I'd like to tell you, I did want to help the planet. I wanted to make people's lives better. But bottom line, I thought it would be really cool. So, steady is very important to her. That whole concept, that comment that she made about not wanting to be disloyal was kind of intriguing too because loyalty is huge for an S. All right. So what's the question that they ask? What do you need to provide her in order to alleviate the frustration? Yeah. So what does the S need to help her with her frustration? What's that? Organization. Organization, structure, process. Right? That you have to provide it. You know, some eco-stroking and soothing and compliments maybe. Yeah, maybe. I mean, if they're sincere and they're, you know, but what she needs more than anything is that structure and kind of a process. So she understands where it all fits together. Now, do you have to sit down and do the process? Now, one of the strategies I would recommend to people, if you've got somebody that's that frustrated with that, I would give it to her and just say, you know, you're obviously very frustrated with this. I think we would greatly benefit from a better process. I'd like to see what you would come up with. And I'm here to help. So why don't you go ahead and take a first stab at it, bring it back to me, and we'll talk about it. Because obviously I didn't have that big of a problem or I would have fixed it, right, because I'm a D. But anyway, was there anything else on that one? Another question? How do you attempt to communicate with her in the future? Yeah. OK. So, you know, basically, like I said, that would be my strategy. Put her in charge of that area where she's having the most frustration. All right. The next one. What was the scenario three? What was the behavioral style preference of the person described there? I. I. What was the tip off that they were an I? Place in the company. Creative and innovative ideas, but not a lot of structure with agenda. Right. Yeah. The eyes don't like to be tied down to structure. I want the freedom to be able to be creative over here. The thing that I was told a long time ago, they need to really recognize is that the structure enables the creativity. Right. That way I don't have to recreate it every time and put the effort into the structure anymore. Because once the structure is in place, that's going to run itself and I can focus more energy on being creative. Does that make sense? OK. So the other things that, you know, they get a party with friends and friends and all that. They like, you know, they're comfortable with change, et cetera. So what mistakes have you made in the past and how are you going to communicate with this person in the future? Get through the noise. Add small talk. Maybe add a little small talk rather than launching in as a D would do. Go bottom line and focus. Make pay a little more attention to what people feel about it. Right. Any more comments or questions scenario three? Yes. I'll say I have found in my job, my day job, I'm a strong D on committees and I served on a committee with strong I. And I found that when I just tried to mind meld with them and listen to them, it helped me get outside of my need to stick to things and focus on results. And it would help me to get outside of my D tendencies. Absolutely. Yeah. And again, situation. This is behavior situationally based. Right. So you're putting a position where you can flex your eye muscles a little bit more, which is not the natural tendency. Right. I will tell you this. Half of the 50 percent of people change between the work environment and their home environment. Fifty percent of the people are different. For instance, at work I'm a D and home I'm an S. It's my preference. Fifty percent of people will change over time depending on their job. If their job changes, their style preference might change. It's just a perception of how they should be. So it is kind of fluid and dynamic. All right. So the last one is actually a scenario taken from my life. So what is the VP that you're going to go present to? What is her preferred style? C. Anybody get C? I think you told me this anecdote. Huh? I think you told me this anecdote. That you presented the same information in a different sequence. Well, it actually was even in the same sequence. We just brought it up. Right. So here's what happened. Right. I had taken over this building department in Danbury, Connecticut, and the lady that had the job before me came to me, and we were going to present to the VP a quarterly summary report. And she came to me and she goes, "It's going to be a bullet in. Just get prepared." And I said, "What do you mean?" She goes, "Oh, she just throws fits. She's throwing staplers. She just freaks out when you give her this report." Fortunately, my team and I had just been through a disc- type assessment, something very similar. So we said, "Okay, let's see if this stuff works." So we sat down and we tried to figure out where this vice president was coming from, what her behavioral style preference was. And we settled on C. And then we looked at the report we were giving her. What does it say in your notes? What kind of report are you giving? So quarterly summary report. Right. How does the C react to a summary report? It's a summary. It's a summary. Yeah. Where are the data? Where's the detail? So we said, "Okay, no wonder. She's uncomfortable with this report." So what we did, and this will kind of age myself, we printed all of the backing detail on green bar paper. I think most of you remember what green bar paper was. And we had a whole box of it. I mean, it was a big box. And we carried the box in and we sat on the floor. We take the summary report off the top, which is a two-page document, and we told her all the supporting details in the box. If we need to look up a transaction, it's all in the box. And then we did the summary report. We walked through it. At the end, she shook our hand. She goes, "This is the best summary report we've ever had." It was no different than any of the other summary reports we've ever presented. But why was it better for her? The box. We answered a question. Where's the detail? It's in the box. We never even went in the box. Now I'm a D, and D's are risk takers by nature. So if I was a real risk taker, we would have empty green bar paper in the box. But I'm not that much of a risk taker. So we actually did have all of the detail. But we were prepared for her to get through the noise. So I appreciate you going through that little exercise. Hopefully you find that it helps kind of solidify your thinking around this stuff. And you can see where, if I know where your behavioral style preference is, I know how to communicate to you more effectively. And to get through the noise and get my message across. If you look, like I said at the last page, there's a little tool to help you just kind of take five minutes before you have to meet with somebody and think about where they're coming from and how to best communicate with them. If you need additional copies, I'm happy to send out soft copies of all of this to everybody. Like I said, if you desire it, we can send out all the slides as well. So I mentioned that we would take, we've been going about an hour and a half right now. Do we need a ten minute break ? Ten minute break? Just kind of put a bow on the disc assessment and the behavioral style preference. And one of the things I wanted to tell you is if you want to, one of the things is it's a skill like anything else. And the more you use this tool, the better you get at figuring out where people are coming from at that particular time. And one of the ways you can practice this is that if you watch television or read the newspaper or get a slide of newspapers, look at the advertiser because they will hit all four styles in 30 to 60 seconds. So if you think about a car ad, what do they have in a car ad that appeals to the D? Driving fast. It's fast. What appeals to the I? It's usually two people in the car. Yeah. People are going to like it if you buy this car. What about the S? They'll talk about loyalty programs. Safety, loyalty, family friendly and the C? It's all that little stuff at the bottom. Miles per gallon, zero to sixty, all the facts. They'll hit that in 60 seconds. If you look at a sitcom, I don't know if you watch sitcoms, but sitcoms, they make the characters so sing one dimensional that you can pick out what behavioral style and a lot of times they'll have all four styles within the sitcom. Because we intuitively identify this because this is how people behave. So anybody ever watch Friends? Who was a D in Friends? Monica. Monica, D off the charts. Very controlling. Who was a I? Phoebe. Phoebe was an I. Joey was probably an I. Who was an S? Ross. Ross was a C. Is that sarcastic? Dougie Chandler. Chandler was an S actually. Joey was a D. Joey might have been an S. He was an I or an S. He was more in the people side. But you can see when you can, they make these characters. When you read a book, they'll make the characters identifiable so you can. So what I encourage you to do is, it's a great way to practice, is look at the stuff that you 're consuming already and say, give yourself a quiz. Where's this person? You have to finish it. Ross has a C. I think so. But we're all all four. So there'll be little kind of abnormalities within that or anomalies, if you will , that might lead you to a different conclusion. Can we diversify? Let's go Sanford and Son are good times. Alright, Sanford and Son. Who was the D? Oh, Sanford and Sanford. Fred? Yes. Come Elizabeth. Was there an I? Who was the friend that always came? Julio. Julio. Yes. I think he was an I. Maybe Lamont. He had to be steady. Was the son a C? That's what I was thinking. Lamont, that was his name. Lamont was a C. Woodrow was always drunk, but that doesn't count. You can be drunk for many of the four styles. Elizabeth was an F. Yeah. Alright. So it's just interesting as you're watching this stuff, as you're consuming movies or whatever, that they write these because this is how people behave. So just be more aware and pay attention to start to see it more effectively. So that kind of puts a bow on our conversation or discussion around disc and how we use it to communicate more effectively. The next thing I want to look at is, you know, I made the comment before that you guys win or lose as a team. And as the council itself and then the council and staff has to, the better you function as a team, the more effective you potentially will be. Teams typically go through, has anybody seen the four stages of team development? They've been talking about this for years and years and years. Anybody remember what that is or seen that? Does it denial acceptance? No, that's the stages of grief. Which may or may not have the same applicability. No, the stages of team development, first one is forming and when you're in the forming stage, it's usually when you first get together and you don't really know everybody very well. So, you know, this is usually when we're on our best behavior and then, you know, we're trying to figure out what the ins and outs are and I might not stick my neck out , etc. But after we're together for a while, we get through this stage they call the storming phase where we start to have disagreements and conflict and those things start to surface and hopefully we deal with those and get through those until we get to the norming phase where we establish group norms and how we're going to interact and how we're going to behave around and with each other. So, we get to the fourth stage which is performing. Now, Patrick Glenciani wrote a book that I think is more detailed to these phases and to the progress and procession that they can go through and he called these the five dysfunctions of a team. Has anybody read the book? A couple of you. And basically the five dysfunctions of a team and it's kind of like, if you remember Maslow's hierarchy of means, it's like that in that you can't get to a higher level until you accomplish, conquer the lower levels. Alright, so the first step is this absence of trust. It's easier for me to figure out what he's talking about when I think of what he defines as the result of the dysfunction. The result of the absence of trust is a fear, what he calls a fear of vulnerability. So, this is when I'm in a group and I may be new to the group and I'm afraid, I don't want to be vulnerable. So, I 'm reluctant to admit that I don't know something. I'm reluctant to admit that I don't know how to do something. I'm reluctant to admit that I was wrong or maybe wrong. It's that fear because I don't know if it's going to be okay to not know it. I don't know if it's okay to be vulnerable. And it kind of reminds me of when I heard this, it was one of the first jobs I ever had was on a construction site. So, you can imagine me as a kid showing up for the first day on a construction site and all these old Grizzled veterans, you know, they all put their arm around me and took me under their wing and taught me the ropes and took care of me and taught me how to do it. So, the first thing they told me to do was run to the tool crib and get a left-handed gangly wrench. So, did I know what a left-handed gangly wrench was the first day on the job? No. Why didn't I know what a left-handed gangly wrench was? So, I ran to the tool crib hoping to get something out of the tool crib. Of course, there's no such thing as a left-handed gangly wrench or a punch wrencher. So, I stood there and stared at the wall for about ten minutes and then I walked back and of course they're all laughing. But, you know, if I had admitted, if I didn't have this absence of trust that it would be okay not to know that, I would have said, I don't know what that is, what does it look like? And I would have spoiled their joke, but we would have been a lot more committed for that first part of the day. It wouldn't have been as much fun for them. But we have to get to the point where it's okay and we can admit, I don't know that and we're comfortable with it. Once we get over the trust issue, the next dysfunction that I need to conquer is , he calls it fear of conflict. And this is the ability to have philosophical debate about the real issues. If I can't have this fear, if I have this fear of conflict, that results in artificial harm. We've all been, I think most of us have been in an environment where, you know, people don't fight, but it's not a real harm. We've got these land mines everywhere that we're avoiding because we're afraid of the conflict that's going to happen . I remember being a kid and going to some of my friends' houses and you could practically see the land mines. And then you go to somebody else's house and they're yelling and screaming. And that was a lot more healthy than the land mine houses. The land mine houses are very quiet. So if things get really quiet, then be scared because you 've got probably this fear of conflict and you've got an artificial firmity impacting your team. If I can get over that, and if I can get over the fear of conflict, the next one is this lack of commitment. And the interesting thing here, and the thing to be really, you know, a lot of times these authors will put labels on it that I don't necessarily 100 percent agree that they are accurately describing. This isn't really a lack of desire to commit, but it's all about ambiguity. It's all about the fact that we didn't have the conflict. We didn't have the conflict to clarify what we are talking about. So when we committed, we committed to different things. It's one of those deals where we say, "Okay, here's what we 're going to do." And then we leave and we come back and you say, "Okay, here's what I did based on what we talked about ." And the other person says, "That's not what I meant." Or, " I didn't understand it that way." One of the basic, this is kind of a pivotal thing that trips up a lot of teams. And it's basic to most of Lencioni 's writings is this. What he basically comes up and says is this, "As a leader, it's more important for you to be clear than it is for you to be right." And I would say in life, it's more important for you to be clear than it is to be right. So what he's saying basically is, do you agree with that? It's more important to be clear than it is to be right? I'm a recovering accountant. It depends. I'm a recovering accountant and I like being right. I think being right as much as I can be right is important. So I didn't really like that at the beginning. So I started thinking about what if you're, if it's more important for you to be right than it is for you to be clear, what happens if you're not sure you're right? What do you do? If it's really important for you to be right and you're not sure you are, what do you do? Don't say anything. All right, so you either don't say anything or if you have to say something, you muddy things up, right? So that I used to be really good at writing my, they had me write my own objectives. I got so good at it that regardless of the outcome, I could argue I was successful, right? But the things were really muddy. They were really murky. And especially when you're working with other people, you need clarity in order for things to work effectively and efficiently. The more clear you can be. And I had a boss that used to say it's better to be clearly wrong than generally right. It took me a while to figure out. I really hit home when I got married, actually. Because when do you find out when you're clearly wrong? When you put the toilet paper on backwards. You find out right away, right? When you're clearly wrong, you find out right away. When do you find out when you're generally right? At the very end when you deliver the project and they say that's not what we wanted. That's not what we meant. So I tell the story that kind of illustrates it is that when I got married, my wife moved into the house that I had owned previously. And notice I did not save my house. So I had owned this house. We sold the house that she had owned and she moved in. And after a couple of months, I came home and she was crying on the couch. And I said, well, honey, what's wrong? She said, well, I don't have anything anymore, which made me feel really good since I was – she had me. [Laughter] But I fought through that and I said, okay, well, what do you mean you don't have anything? She said, well, we sold my house. I'm living in your house. It's decorated your way. It's your stuff. Blah, blah, blah, blah. And I said, no, it's our house. She goes, oh, no, it's not. So being a consultant, I dragged out a flip chart and we started brainstorming ideas for us to make it our house. And then we put them through a regression analysis to do a priority list. I'm joking about some of that. But we ended up with a prioritized list of things that would make it our house, that would make her happier. So the number one thing that came out on the list was a closet organizer. It was one of the things she wanted. And I'm thinking to myself, I know what that is. I've done that before. So being a new husband and wanting to please, I got her, I actually got a flight home business trip early. And I'm driving from the airport home and I pass Home Depot . So the light bulb goes on. I can do something nice for my wife. So I pull into Home Depot. Yeah. It's usually the women start shaking their head. Oh, no, no, you didn't. Yes, I did. I pulled in, bought the most expensive, nicest closet organizer they had. And by the time she got home, I had it installed. You know, the garage door go up and I'm all excited, getting grinning from ear to ear. I meet her at the door. She just takes one look at me and goes, what did you do? I said, look. And I go back and I throw the doors open. I go, ta-da. And she says. That's not what I meant. Turns out what she means by closet organizers is the thing that hangs over the back of the door, you put shoes on. Now, I was generally right. If I had taken the time to be clearly wrong and said, hey, and I did this, I do this with every other project now from that point forward is this is a picture of what it looks like. This is what we plan to do. Is this what you want? And it's amazing how many times what my mind says we want and what she wants are completely different. But I find out if I'm clearly wrong up front, that's a win because I don't have. I end up spending a lot of money. If you've ever done a closet organizer, they're expensive and they take a lot of effort. So I've been a lot of time and money and effort on something nobody wanted. It didn't make anything any better. Whereas I could have spent $15.00 in five minutes and given her what she wanted. And I still had to do that. Every organization that I've ever worked for has closet organizers scattered all over the place. So we didn't take the time to have the conflict and the philosophical, the debate to clarify what it is so that we could all commit to the same thing. If we don't, if we commit to different things, we tend, I can't really hold you accountable for if you committed something different than I committed to. So we get the avoidance of accountability, which results in low standards. This accountability piece of it is not the leader at the top holding everybody accountable. Successful teams hold each other accountable. We agree on the group norms. We agree on our roles and we agree on our our rules of engagement. And we hold each other accountable. I mean, you think if you're a football fan, you can spot the good teams from the bad teams because the good teams hold each other accountable. It's not the coach. It's the players. You think cowboys in the 90s, you had Emmett Smith, Tori Ag new, Michael Irvin that ran the locker room and they kept everybody in line and they gave everybody feedback. The coach didn't have to do it. So at some point are you going to address that there is no there is accountability, but there isn't. Right. And then if you don't tell that with the comments from earlier, then so different people listening to different people, there's no way to hold people accountable tangibly. And, you know, so that accountability is very loose and then it becomes some spike here then creates a vacillation here. So now I was here now over here. So the moving parts as far as so if you're just listening to citizens, you're just listening to consultants, you're just listening to staff, you know, there that's very complex in our environment. Right. And so I don't know if you're going to touch on that later when you touch on other things, but that that is a concern. It's there is no method to hold people accountable. If someone says, hey, I'm for this in a week later, two days later, day after they're not for this. There's nothing to be done. It's just it changed. You know, so there's a consternation there because we were up and running. And now we're we're back. Right. So I don't know what they what in our environment there's there's not really a, you know, it's all kind of seven different independent mechanisms. True. Even if they agree to work first. I think I understand what you're saying. Yes. I think I'm tracking with you. But there are things you can hold each other accountable. There's things you can hold staff accountable. OK. Right. So your your role of counseling, your rules of engagement, staying in your lane and not once you agree on what that is, staying within that construct. Does that make sense? Well, yes and no. But for example, so we'll use we'll pick on John because he's we're friends. So we had a vote. Right. And there was a there was a clear error that he wanted to call that back. So we we were we had a vote on Tuesday, clawed it back and we're now revisiting it on the following Tuesday. So in that instance, legitimate reason to go back and revisit. But it it wasn't like, hey, we made a decision on ward upwards. Now, then it becomes, hey, do I agree with that? That's that's kind of deeper in the weeds. But the the just of it is there is a mechanism by which stuff that is dead and gone gets resurrected. Right. Whether I like it or not. And so that's where that there is no accountability for that. That is an individual decision that they they get to make. And then we're all subjected to it. I tell you what, I think it's a really interesting comment idea. I want to kind of sidebar that until we get to a little bit later in the day and roll out some rules of engagement. And then I want to revisit that. Sure. You know, I figured you would. I mean, I knew it was in your your list of things to do. I just wanted to make sure. Yes, very good. Yeah, I just want to add as Gerard as a fellow D, I would say listening to you just now, I'd say spoken like a true D. Right. Right. Like what you just said. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. We use the common language already. So so this is a voice of accountability tends to stem from this fact that we just we committed to do different things. We didn't have the discussion necessary conflict to get clarity about what we were talking about. So it was a little bit fuzzy. And I committed to something different than you did. And that's going to cause me to go back and revisit that and create law standards. And this last one is he called it an intention to results. I'm going to say it's an intention to team results. And if I'm not focused on the results we're achieving as a team, what am I focused on? Personal personal personal personal. Yeah. This results in what he calls status and ego. So I'm focused on the my results, what it means to me rather than what we can do together as a team. So successful teams. These are all one of the comments I get is these are all negative. These are all written in a negative way. But you can flip it out to a positive. Right. So successful teams trust each other enough. They have conflict so that they can get clarity and all commit to the same thing. And they've got a common thing they're committed to. And they hold each other accountable for getting there. And they're focused on their results as a team, not so much on their individual results. And I need to get to this level because there's certain times you got to take one for the team. You may have heard that expression before. Anybody familiar with that? Anybody know where it comes from? Golf. No. Baseball. Right . To take one for the team typically means it's the ninth inning. We're down by two runs and we need base runners. And the pitcher throws a 98 mile an hour fastball on the inside part of the plate instead of jumping out of the way. And I lean into it so I can get on base. Now is it ever in my personal best interest to get hit by an object traveling 98 miles an hour? No. Ever. Is it? Is it good for me? No. No. I don't care who you are. It hurts. It's not good for you individually. Is it good for the team ? Is the team's best interest that I do that? Yeah. So when you become a highly functioning team, you're willing to do that. No. One of the things it takes is I have to think everybody else on my team is going to do the same thing when it's their turn. That's one of the things that this, that's one of the things I have to trust is that we're in this together. Right. So and you can see the status and ego. I mean the count was a few years ago they had a wide receiver and they might lose the game. And they talked to the wide receiver about the game and he 'd be like, I don't know. It's not my fault. I had 10 catches for 250 yards in the touchdown. And then they talked to the quarterback and said, yeah, you threw for 400 yards and three touchdowns. You had a great game. He goes, what do you mean we lost? It 's that shift from my personal stats to how did we what did we achieve as a team? Did we achieve our goal? Which is a D is to win. Right. So everybody understand this model? Any questions about it? So you can think about the forming storming, this absence of trust and fear of conflict are really the forming stage of team development. Conflict and commitment is getting to the storming commitment to accountability. This is norming. And then when you get to this focus on team results, this is where you really perform. So overcoming these team dysfunctions, these common team dysfunctions are the thing that help you move up that ladder to become a really super high performing team and getting stuff done, which as the overarching overall D kind of mentality, it's really the driver for this group is you guys want to get stuff done. Right. Questions or comments about that model? So you can see this is the model that we just built. So I have an assessment that I'm going to hand out that you can work on individually work to teach to kind of figure out what are the dysfunctions that are likely impacting your team. But I want to give you a context in which to look at that. So I'm not going to hold off on that for a while. I want you to get into a little individual and small group exercise and explain how I go about doing things. One of the things that came up in the one on one interviews is that there was kind of a difference in perspective and view of what the role of the council is. And some of them had a more expensive view than others. But I do this with pretty much every council I work with is to have you guys draft your own statement on what your role is. So you put it in your own words. I know you have a charter that defines it and all this other stuff. It's really important for you guys in your own words to say , here's what we view our role to be. And it gives you guys a way to hold each other accountable for fulfilling your role and not getting off in the weeds on some of the stuff that it's a tendency to get in the weeds. So I use what I call a one to four technique. Basically, what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you a few minutes to individually write down your thoughts on what the role of council is. Each one of you will individually by yourself without discussion with other people solo alone. Write your own thoughts down. I give you a few minutes to do that. And then what's happening? I can't really do the one to four techniques. So we're going to do the one to four or one three technique. I have two groups of two and one group of three. And you guys are charged with putting your thoughts together to create one statement. And then my two groups of two are going to create a group of four and create one statement. So I have a group of four and a group of three. I'll end up with two statements on what the role of council is. I'll have you record your statements on the flip charts. And then you'll go to the other teams and you're going to tell me what you like about their statement. Is it clear what I'm asking you to do? It's OK. I'll give you one step at a time. So first up was what? Individual by yourself alone solo capture your thoughts about the role of council. And then I'll put you in your groups. Any length expectations? No. Sure. I'm a firm believer that shorter is better. More succinct better. Less than 50 words. But you can have as much as you can record in the next four and a half minutes. OK. If you're still making your notes, that's fine because you're going to get to talk about your thoughts and combine them with others. So for this first time, and we're going to switch these teams around throughout the day. So everybody's going to get a chance to work with everybody else. But Mr. Mayor, we'll go this way for a group of three. OK. All right. Two and two. So in your groups, what I want you to do is take what your thoughts are and put it together with the other person or people in your group and come up with one either list of bullets or statement about what you feel the role of council is. Does everybody know what group they're in? No. You and Gerard. I know I did that really quick. I'm going to check in with the citizens. First, why is this? First, if you can add maybe consistent. I think. The. Council to provide policy direction. So I'm going to raise that. That's not me. I think. I think. I think. The office. Pushed into one of these. That's OK. I think. That doesn't mean it's going to change what you do. I think. You forget together. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. I think. you like that yeah that's good maybe in friends previous to sit so it's not we're specifically saying you know yeah yes I have to be right it's an illegible way yeah hey I heard that so has anyone confused you for the guy in Colorado emails you like yeah yeah hey Chris what's your middle initial yeah that guy's L . Oh yeah people just brought up a handle you know it's like any Google search and go hey what that one of course you know I just can't read my she's a little bit that whole thing but that's what I mean in the future I'm somebody who did that to children and I'm pretty good point really really good one. Yes. Nicely that I mean. Yeah. Right. No, I said well. Did you see that guy trying to trying to take its car? And what happened is the kid apparently had stolen something from his business or something. So he decided to take the kid, put him in the car and drive it to the police station. Was this here? It was somewhere local here, I think. And of course, the thing that's wrong with that is that yeah, little outside the lines. The guy's got to have problems with it. But that's what you just hold them right. You call the police. That's right. Yeah, that's what you did. That's what you should do. That reminds me, my daughter showed me what you thought one of those memes that she likes those, you know, and it said something about it's a kind of thing that kids find music. It said something about if you're waiting for it, makes you harder to kidnap. So eat cake. It was just... She loved that. Advice for kids by other kids, you know. It's a variant on the Life is Shorty dessert. Yes, yeah, yeah. It's harder to kidnap. So what is this thing? Our home, our kitchen. This is the music. You realize we're going to have to turn the room around. Yes, yes. Well, I... Oh no, you said it. [inaudible] All right, both groups are done. So if I could have your attention for just a second, because here's how the next stage of this process works. One is I want you to take your color pen and go to the other team's flip chart. And I want you to underline the things you like about what they had to say about the role of counsel. I want you to have a question mark next to those things. You would like more clarification or you're not sure you understand and put an X next to those things that you don't like or dislike about what they wrote as the role of counsel. All right. So as a team, go to the other team's flip chart. And underline the things you like, question the things that you're not sure about, and X next to the things you don't like. What would we put when we can't read? [laughter] I think that would be a question. [laughter] Good. [inaudible] Underwire. Yes. [inaudible] I like the first one. [inaudible] Underline what you like, question what you want to put on the X. [inaudible] [inaudible] They were listening to us. [laughter] The main difference is this idea of cold service. Health and safety. Yeah, that's good. She was good. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [laughter] Hey, hey, hey. [laughter] What's that? What did you say? I was complimenting on this leading statement here. Objection. Objection, you're objecting to the leading statement? Yeah, formal objection. We'll have the judge look at it. How is that a leading question? [inaudible] [inaudible] Oh, yeah. I remember that's what they meant. [inaudible] Yeah. [inaudible] [inaudible] You were thinking like a verbal, we've got to own our own. [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [laughter] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [laughter] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [laughter] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible] So we're going to get clarity. We're going to get clarification on these things. [inaudible] If you guys are finished over there, if we sail back in, we 're just going to get some clarity. Now, one of the things I like to tell groups when I work with them is one of the things we will not do, one of the things we will not do is work Smith as a group. That's the biggest waste of time I ever saw. [inaudible] You guys can give input, but what's going to happen is this . We're going to get clarity around what it is you mean. So the purpose of these is to get the intent down so that we can talk about it, make sure that we're all clear what we talk about. And when you guys start your next exercise, I will go ahead and craft a statement and do the word smithing so that you will have something to react to. My purpose when doing that is not to be 100% right, but to be 100% clear. We might want to change a couple of words. You can react to it. You can say, I don't like that word. I will go back and work Smith it, but we're not going to do it as a group because we can spend the rest of the day on this exercise alone. If we start arguing over individual words. So that's just something. So you know what to expect. You like over here they like the engages and input. They like give direction to set policy transparency. They like their own current realities, previous decisions and outcomes. But they had a question about it. What was your question? Are you trying to buy that? Were you trying to say versus our current realities versus this? Because that just wasn't similar to your thought about how you put it. Modify, sort of accept. Yeah, we figured it was probably the same. We just want to verify that. Yeah, you said accept the past and go from there. Well, it's like you're going to be like your thought of. Yeah, yeah. But your starting point is where you are. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, because I mean, for example, Bucky's is two years old . So if you're just like that on council, the buildings built the dirt smooth. There's no movie. There's no change in the deal. That deal is done and there's no modification to be had. You know, I contract signed, still delivered. But, you know, so to not embrace that is to ignore reality in my humble estimation. OK, so that's what you mean by that? Yes. OK, there are decisions made before you're elected that are non-negotiable. You can't go back to them and say, hey, I know you built this multimillion dollar building, but I have an issue with how it was structured. So I need to tear it all down so we can start over. That that that defies logic. So that's a very good. So that helped me understand what you're what you mean by that, because for hours, I think the important words are modified past policies. In other words, these aren't necessarily decisions. What you're talking about is very concrete. It's here. We're talking about policies. I don't know what I mean. It's streets. Let's say they didn't put that much money in the streets. So we're putting more money in the streets. They didn't do this. You know, maybe or we were in this direction. Now we're moving in this direction. So it's more of a policy than a specific kind of thing is done. There's no change. Yeah, I think there's that's a very clear delineation. So policy versus a. Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. There you go. Thank you. I'm sorry, I will just say that some of the modified past policies come from those decisions that you have to come into council and say for those incentive policies that we 've rewritten because of some of the things that, you know, past councils had. Right. So it kind of goes hand in hand. I mean, you come in, you accept, OK, this is a concrete thing. This is why it's here. But what was it? How do we get here? Do we like it? We like the process. We want to change it in the outcome. Right. And what policies can we go back to avoid future councils from this type of thing? And I would also add that, you know, there are as far as, you know, something like a physical structure that can't be unbuilt like the Buckees. You know, the citizen says I have a problem with the Bucke es. Well, of course, you know, on the one hand, the answer is, well, that's there to say it's there to stay. But if their problem is something about the traffic around the Buckees or noise or something like that, there are tang ential issues to that that we can and have to address. Well, it's a modified part, right? Yeah. You know, it's just I think it's a frame of mind of just starting from the actual facts and accepting that they are the facts, you know, as part of your next next mental step. All right. Very good. Ignore personal agendas in order to serve the people as a whole. Yes, so that's kind of they like that. Yeah. They like to protect the health, safety and general welfare and improve the lives of the citizens of the city of Denton . And they said it was your mark here and wrote stakeholders. Yeah. We use the word stakeholders instead of citizens so that you're including both businesses, the citizens and those that come in from out of that living current and working in the city of Denton. You're shopping in density or improving all stakeholders, not just the the homeowners and renters. So that was the question on the word stakeholder. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. So so basically, stakeholders include not just citizens or residents, but businesses, visitors. Anybody else? I mean, I would say also undocumented people who are citizens if you want to get right, you know, legalistic about it. We just say stakeholders. Right. So residents, residents, businesses, visitors. He really doesn't like that. I'm curious why. Yeah, the word. The word stakeholders. Yeah. I mean, just well, it's not a very good thing. Well, for me, citizens is more personal. I can relate like a stakeholder. You know, you have developers reach out to you and you listen to them and you're but that's not that's part of part of my job. But for me, as a district to representative, my job is to represent and be there for those citizens. You know, so that's just where it's more personal for me and their businesses as well. But they're within that representative area and within the city for me when I think stakeholders will. Sure, they're in the city, but they're also outside of the city. And I mean, so stakeholders, the word itself doesn't really to me, it encompasses citizens because citizens are obviously stakeholders because they have a stake in our community. But for you, you just like the word citizens because it's more communicative of the type of stakeholder like their citizen, whereas a business person, you would categorize more as a quote unquote stakeholder than necessarily a citizen or you just like the word. I think business owners are citizens. Right. Well, we may be here. I think that's a philosophical issue. Maybe I don't know if you want to take time to talk about it or not, but you know , if you view our goal or our role is to look for the welfare of the citizens, then you say, I look at the businesses and whatever other entities from the lens of, is it making things better for the citizens? You know what I mean? It's worse. The stakeholder thing says, you know, you must take into account the benefit to all of these players versus well really after the benefit of the citizens. So I'm going to listen to the stories of these other stakeholders from the point of view. Does it improve things ? Citizens, it's a philosophical. Yeah, I think there's a distinction as you define your role . I would just add that I mean, because I'm comfortable with the world, the word stakeholders, but I agree with what what you're saying is for me as far as representative democracy, which is what we do. I am speaking for me, not the group, but I have a hierarchy of stakeholders and for me I put the I put the residents first. I try to say residents instead of citizens, but put the residents first because those are the people who, whether they voted or not, you know, those are the people who, who you're who you are directly serving, but also they're also all these other stakeholders. For instance, I've had, you know, the people, someone who works here, who spends most of their day in Denver, because they work here and they commute here. But they live in, they live somewhere else, you know, and that person is affected by our decisions so I will prioritize the people who reside here, but I also listen to those other stakeholders. What's the definition of the stakeholder? I just hear you. Yeah. It's a person who has an interest in what the city does. In decision making process and the outcome. In an example of where, you know, is it stakeholder is it citizen to festivals we have arts and jazz and North Texas Fair, both. We have a few citizens that live in those areas that complain about the fact that we give a variance on the noise. But when you look at the fact that both those drop 200,000 people portion of those are citizens that live here and a portion of those are coming from out of town. Yeah, they're all, they're all spending money in Denton their stakeholder in that. Each one has a different level of how much involvement they have. And that's a balancing act of you have to figure out. Well, shareholders, management, labor, customers, people who live around where your plan is. Could I suggest as a modification since you're probably all some comfort with parts of this citizens and other stakeholders, just that that language. Words are all we have to communicate. They like the role of councils to provide directions staff that will provide core services core services and quality of life for our citizens by being physically responsible. By physically responsible decision making, creating fair and equitable decision. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I think there's a big probably like like that stuff to it. We noted the physically responsible because there's a thought that was within our stuff that we didn't make the board here where we like that. Question mark next to modifying past policies we talked about that. Stakeholders. Yeah, that's what we just talked about. And our home our decision. Yes, we like, we like the concept promote, we would inject advocate versus promote, and then we wanted to explore how our decision our home our decision because we're a little limited there in my estimation that's that I was kind of seeing how that is. Actionable, because the state establishes the city of Dent on. The example I'll give you is you never go to your dad's house and tell them where to put the couch to his house right so so there are some limitations and just how do we actively, if there's something we're going to take that we're going to do. How do we go to the state and tell them, stick it in your ear. You know, you just don't know how that works. Well, yeah, because basically the last email conference. This week, they're wanting to change the messaging from local control you know that's been the best word local control, because that's sort of people don't really understand when you say that control can be a negative word for people. So they're changing the messages to our home our decisions, simply as a messaging campaign that when we have issues come up that seem to impede upon our, our home our decisions that we can communicate with the citizens to get more citizen engagement and action at the state legislature and instead of it just be city policymakers because they don't. I'm not so sure how much. So it's a way to try to message to the citizens, hey, this is important. You know what's happening at the state is important, and they may be taking away your ability not counsel's ability not the mayor's not the, not the elected officials which sometimes can be seen with a little bit more of a curious eye but hey they're taking away your decision to be able to make these decisions so it's more. How do we promote that kind of environment. Excellent. Yeah , so so activating the populace at the statement right so hey challenge. Yes, yes, yes, yes, and help us advocate for our ability to make the decisions for our own place. And there's been I would say so, and that's the reactive side of it which is very important. You know what decisions have been made that take away from the our ability as a city to make policies for ourselves. There's also the proactive sense of what, what are we still allowed to do for now. And let's try to those things that we want to do that we still legally can let's try to get that in there. Before it gets taken away instead of taking it for granted. Are there any other questions or comments on either one of the. Alright, so what I'm going to do next is that while you work on the next exercise I will take those to do a mashup and works with them a little bit and give you something to react to. The next thing I want to work on is rules of engagement I think they're, they set up one to. So, what we'll do is I'll get you started individually on your rules of engagement. And then, as they get lunch ready , you can feel free to grab lunch and then I'll put you in groups like before, and we'll do the same process only you 'll be working with different people. And what I'm looking for first is a set of bullets list word cloud whatever you want to do statement paragraph. To fulfill what you're, you defined your role to be. What kind of rules of engagement, would you like to put into place. Sometimes councils, you know, they've had a problem people come in late. They say punctuality is something they want on the list, etc. So what this will do is this will be something for you guys and we talked a little bit about holding each other accountable. This is something that you guys can hold each other accountable for is living up to you, what you all agreed as are your rules of engagement. Does that make sense. So you want us to focus on engaging each other not engaging the population. Yes. So how are you going to work with each other. After we do that then we're going to say okay how are you going to work with staff. And after that we'll say how are you going to agree to interact with your constituents. So this is your rules of engagement with each other. Clear what I'm asking you. Yeah, so those kinds of things you don't need to put down but are there things that you would like to agree on how you're going to interact with each other. Is this primarily in public meetings. We're engaging within the public meeting or a meeting setting the physical engagement there is extend beyond social media platforms or things such as if there's interaction there's mentioning of council members names or things such as that. Okay. So it's a broader sense of how we're treating each other both in the formal meeting and outside. Yes. Are individual notes subject to FOIA. As part of the rest. I mean these are those are individual decisions. If you want to do that. That's fine. I'm sure your fellow council members are all in the same. Yeah, that's why I was I didn't know it was just automatically because this was it because it's a public meeting. Our constituents know better how to communicate with us. To the extent that. Oh no I know. Yeah, no. Maybe the survey at the end like. Yes. How much time do we have now for the. Yeah. You know there's there's that. Probably. Yeah. I'm going to. I'm going to. Sounds like a blood sport. Hunger games. Is this you fighting. It's about. Oh. I'll figure it out. I'm still using sticky. Strictly. So. So as you guys are eating and doing other stuff. This is kind of the I want to know how close to your intent on the role of. The. Yeah. Citizens to me is to narrow. I'm going to. I said citizens. I said citizens. Other stakeholders. Just answer your question. All right. I'm going to. What about just residents and other stakeholders. The same way. I was raised by an English teacher. Recognizing this probably needs some further words. We just want to go from. How close. I don't know what it is, but you took out as far as words, meaning and intent, but I purposely like the business component. I don't know why businesses and individual. I mean, it's the same thing, right? Any corporation, you got to have a business, a person behind it. So. And for example, if one of our businesses kind of the intent and our goal, because one of the businesses leaves. And all those employees are fired, then I think that has a citizen effect, right? I mean, I think to deny that and we need to increase. Business. Tax base to take the burden off citizens. So your priority is citizens, right? I mean, those other. It's one of the same, though. Business, a business is a system. You sometimes just sometimes know what business found itself without a person behind it. I don't know, but they may or may not be citizens, right? Could be, you know, I mean, we're going to sort. I think the thought was with your I understand what you're saying. So let's get let me get clarity on this. The thought was that businesses and business and all that stuff, those go in the other state. Those are part of stakeholders. OK, my my thought is in my perception, right? So just can I just my thought first? So so what I hear you say is that because. Businesses are so important to what you do or the city needs to do that it would be. You would prefer to be called out businesses like we do residents and make that. Not part of the other stakeholders specifically call out. So residents, businesses and other stakeholders. Now, do I know? Yes, yes. So I just want to make sure I want to make sure I got it. I took it all in. Yeah. So yes. The answer to the to your question is. That there before it was. OK. OK. Because it came up in I think more than one of the three session discussions is the importance of in a smart way, managing the growth and growing the sales tax base or growing the. You know, so it's not just residents that are showing all the burden or homeowners that are showing all the burden for the majority. So as we call it in the interest of reducing redundancy, I've changed the second paragraph just to all stakeholders. I guess for me, part of it depends on how you look at. We will engage input. Does that mean we're soliciting it or what if you have a business or a homeowner who has an issue with the city and we're trying to help them resolve their problem? Because they're actually engaging us, not us engaging them. I wonder if there's a better term to use there. I was trying to work from this point. Did you guys seem to like is. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Whereas we had negotiate between stakeholders in the city. Surround too much. All right. So other comments on this, the engaging input. This, I think, says you guys are going to go out and seek input from all stakeholders. Right. Decision making process. And me, sometimes they come to us and when they come to us is when it's even more important than we're working on. Anybody else? Are we changing that? I don't know. What do you think? Well, if people think that that's a one way, that statement sort of indicates a one way type of communication. And you say we will engage and receive whatever you chose to turn basically one or two way communication input. We want to be able to engage and we want them. You know, we encourage engagement from. That you're trying to say, yes. This is what happens when you deal with a lot of high D's. Well, also, you can't start to separate wordsmithing from substance, right? The substance is expressed in words. Yeah. When I say we're not going to work with the group, I ran into one situation where everybody was sitting around on the phone on the. It was it was not. So I would prefer you just let me play around with this. It works with it's more thinking also to. Yeah, exactly. Well, I had a four hour meeting because one word and it was actually a role of council statement. One word there was one council member didn't like one word that I personally thought was one of the better ones that I worked on. The phrase was we will make the difficult and sometimes un popular decisions in order to, you know, better in the best interest of the city. And one council member didn't like didn't want to be a part of. They were dying or an ass. I think she was an ass. Yeah. All right. So we will use input from all stakeholders to strive and make decisions that are fiscally responsible. How's that? So that captures whether you go out and get it or whether it comes to you. All right. We had 90 percent. So what I'll do, we'll sit with this and we'll have opportunities to ruminate on it. When we present this back to you as all the work product you guys produce today, you get a chance to react to it again. Because what happens is a lot of times after thinking about it a little bit, you're like, oh, yeah, this part of it, I don't like or I'd like to change a little bit about that. So I have an opportunity. This will be a living document. Last time to be completely open. To me, health, safety and general welfare is terra firma. Now, that's like that's why cities exist. I mean, by law is to serve health, safety and general welfare. And core services is a little bit of an agenda. It says only core services, not so much other things, you know, and we may disagree. Yeah, it strikes me as more of a specific agenda. So so I think we're on safer ground in terms of reflecting the role of council. Is there anything within health, safety and general welfare that doesn't fall under core services? Well, you know, it's a question. It's all depends. It all depends on what you mean by core. Yeah. Well, then the question for the group that wrote core services, what is anything within core services not encompassed by health, safety and general? I mean, as I understood, I mean, health, safety and general welfare is definitely included under core services. You know, I like when I saw it written and the other group, I thought, I like that they the other group spotlighted that aspect of it. I would say that that's health and safety for me is the most important. For me, those core services, if we're so maybe to say kind of like what we did with the residents, businesses and other stakeholders, maybe to say public health and safety and other courses. I just got a curiosity. If I were to change core services, safety and public welfare. So I would read the role of council set policy and provide direction to staff so that we provide for the health, safety, general welfare and enhanced quality of life for our residents, businesses and other stakeholders. I think I can make the same argument that it just depends because what you think is a general safety and welfare public, I may or may not agree. But there are things that we probably all can agree on core services may not be the right word. Obviously, police, fire, clean water, sanitary sewer. I mean, there's some basics. So they're both they're both sort of general in nature. I think your cheap your words are more because they're that's what people they're cod ified. It's codified like that to some degree that there's a lot of zoning laws and regulations that part of the is it my correct that part of the the justification or analysis is health, safety and general welfare. That's correct. But it doesn't matter to me. You could you can come by. I mean, well, go ahead. I was locked in on no, no, I think core is all encompassing because just like because I could make an argument for that . You know, so because there's a there's a study for everything. Right. So when you're talking about health benefits, there's a study that says one side of a about medicine. You know, one study will say it's great. One study will say it's bad. I mean, so now all of a sudden you get into this. It just goes too far. It zooms in too far. I think we all understand the genesis of that vernacular. But I think the the for this statement for it to be kind of broad and something that is a guiding statement, not to say it is the backbone of every decision, but just to say, hey, here's the direction we want to go. I think this captures that versus getting into a nuanced. Well, this doctor said this and that doctor said that, you know, about studies. I mean, you see it even now. The so-called topical now is what the proper blood pressure should be. It continues to go. The number continues to go down or whatever. So it's like recent studies. So all that begins to change. And so now do I believe the previous administration, I believe these this level of doctors, I mean, just begins to vacillate versus a static statement that will hold true regardless of how medicines and studies and science have inflow. Well, yeah, I think I guess just to play devil's advocate that core what is considered core services is equally fluid and subjective. I mean, one person's core idea of what core services are is different from another's. And then that can change over time. So I agree with you. But then why do we want to drill down further? Then if so, yeah, yeah, I'm just saying they both have the same. Go deeper. Yeah, I am. I think about it. If there's a way for me. Well, let me just give you a reason why. Let's say in the future we want to refer back to this to say we still believe that we're fulfilling our role and get into a discussion about, well, is this core or not? But if like I don't even know how to answer that. But if we say, is this serving health safety or general welfare? I think that's I just think it's a more full reference point that might help that might help us evaluate a future situation like health, not about health, not about safety. You know, I just think it's because it's more specific and it's enshrined in law. Well, but I think it's enshrined. You know what? Just put them both in. So then we provide core services to promote the health, safety, general welfare, enhanced quality of life to our citizens. That's what I mean. Yeah, that's that's yeah. I mean, we're all you say potato. I say potato and I just don't. Yeah, well, it's all right. That's good. Yeah. OK, very good. So what I'd like you to do now is everybody individually. There are rules of engagement. Yeah, OK. Hopefully it'll be easier when you're talking your peers, etc. So I'm just going to number off. I have to do two things. I want you to number from one to three. And secondly, I want you to remember your number. So you'll be one. Of course. Three. You're three. Three. And you're the only one. So the ones are going to get together, twos get together, threes get together. One set of rules. I'm going to freeze over there. I'm sorry. Sorry. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Well, I guess that's kind of the problem with that. You said what I think I heard you say. Yeah. Yeah. 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