Aug 02, 2018 City Council on 2018-08-02 8:30 AM

Welcome everybody to this meeting of the Denton City Council on Thursday August 2nd 2018. We do have a quorum. Call this meeting to order. It is 8 33 a.m. Moving through our work session reports. Work session 1A is receive report, hold discussion, receive departmental presentations in preparation for the FY 2018- 19 proposed budget. This is a continuation of the departmental presentations that we've been providing to you today. Internal audit will come and do the presentation on their budget. I also want to let you know that the next presentation after that will be the solid waste budget. That's actually the proposed budget. I do not have a lot of slides in my presentation on that because this will serve that purpose and so if you have any questions on the solid waste proposed budget that'll be you know certainly the time. Nick Vincent our utility business manager will come up and do the financial presentation on that component and then Ethan Cox will present the departmental section. So I'll turn that over to Umesh to present the internal audit budget. Good morning. Good morning. Umesh Lalal, City Auditor. I'm going to be presenting obviously the budget for the internal audit. Of course I have with a very shortest organization chart. That's good. My performance measures are completing audits. 90% of approved audit plan compliance with generally accepted government auditing standards. I'm also going to be providing services to the departments to answer their internal internal control questions and any efficiency related questions. So I mean it's kind of getting ahead of the issue rather than finding it later that something is broken. As far as accomplishments are concerned, I've completed a citywide risk assessment which I presented to the City Council the other day. I prepared audit plan for remaining of FY 18 which was approved by Audit and Finance Committee. I began working on planned audits and I have completed my first audit which I will be presenting to the Audit and Finance Committee in September. I'll compile the policies and procedures manual that complies with government auditing standards. Recruited staff auditor, implemented efficient auditing process, and I've already provided some professional assistance to the departments. My goal is to complete at least eight audits annually to look at the accountability, transparency, efficiency, effectiveness , and economy in the city's operation and compliance with laws, regulations, and policies. Obviously I'm required to investigate complaints received on fraud hotline and provide support to the Ethics Board. As I mentioned, help department to proactively deal with internal control and operational efficiency issues and respond to City Council's and administration's requests for analysis and audits. So those are those are the goals for the year. I presented the risk assessment the other day and 91% of the opportunities that I identified about more than 200 opportunities were high and medium risk. Now as I just mentioned I can complete eight audits a year with existing staff. This means it will take a long time for me to complete the entire population. When we compare the audit resources in Denton with the peer cities, in this comparison Lubbock, Garland, and Glendale, California own electric utility. And in this comparison Scottsdale Arizona is the only one who has got a little bit higher budget than Denton. Nationwide comparison shows that for size of Denton , Denton's budget we need about five to six auditors on that comparison. When you say budget are you talking about the entirety of the budget, capital improvements, and things such as that? Yes sir, yes sir because that is the entire audit population. I already presented when I presented my risk assessment that we are not engineers or we are not chemists. And if we have to audit operations like DME or water we won't we will need some assistance. So this is the budget highlights for again this highlight shows that my budget is marginally increasing in FY 18-19. I got two FDs currently. Questions, comments? Yes Councilmember Hatsbett. So you're proposing, did I read that right to add one FTE, two FTEs? I'm proposing to add two FTEs, one auditor and one like again I'm dealing with a lot of confidential information like on fraud complaints and ethics complaints. So I cannot guarantee confidentiality if I don't have complete control over administrative staff. So I just have a personal preference when I look at that. I'm amenable to that but I'd like to see that staggered. I'd like to see an administrative assistant come on just so that you could get your processes nailed down before adding another person. I just for training purposes I think it should be staggered for to maximize that opportunity and then the other ask I'm gonna have just personally and I'll just monitor but I think those two individuals should be from Denton, live in Denton just because looking at the salary points at 80, 80ish and 100ish we don't have enough we hear we don't have enough of those positions available in town and we ask companies to source here local. So for me personally I think we as a city should lead in that way and shop local. So I understand you can't control who applies but if there's we have two major universities in town and I can't imagine we don't have that talent or if we need to source that talent then I can reach out to whom I know in those two universities and make those connections but that's just going to be really important to me that we fill that position with someone that lives here if at all humanly possible. Understanding I have no no direct control over that and just letting you know what I'm thinking early. Thank you. My question is really for the city manager looking at the general fund request these two requests are actually funded already in our budget or yes okay so we have already yeah they are they're part of my recommended supplementals. Okay thank you thank you. Yes, Councilmember Alton. I will just say I completely support the additional staff because of as you say the importance of the independence of an auditing unit and I look forward to seeing you know once that's additional staff are hired and I'm not saying that this is will be some sort of I'm not proposing this is some sort of metric on return on investment or anything but I'm just saying it'll be interesting to see after these two staff are hired how much how much gets done how you know how much waste gets found that can save us money and again there's because I truly believe that the benefits of having an truly independent auditing staff the benefits financially and in the unquantifiable won't necessarily be seen to till years down the line but it'll be really interesting to see year by year and I truly think it'll make a big difference also for the the public trust to see the independence. One of the major benefit of auditing is to identify the risk early on and deal with it so that it doesn't precipitate and so we can avoid the future major issues so and when we present our first audit you will see that. Any other questions comments? Appreciate it thank you very much. Thank you. I believe we have enough up next solid waste. Is that right ? Yep. Good morning Mayor, City Council members. Tony has stated I'm Nick Benson, utility business manager of the City of Denton. Let me pull up my presentation here. Okay I have a two-part presentation for you today. The first part of the presentation I'll be presenting the FY 2018-2019 proposed solid waste budget. The second part of the presentation Ethan Cox, the director of solid waste, will come up and give the departmental presentation. These are the solid waste assumptions. During the July 17th City Council meeting the council received a report from NUGEN strategies regarding the cost of service study and that study was recently completed and it did identify several service categories and rates that were over and under recovering. A staff is currently working NUGEN to address those rates that are over and under recovering currently. Once that is completed we will bring that forward to City Council. During the June 26th meeting council also received a presentation from Blue Ridge services regarding the operational review and staffing assessment. Following this presentation staff did receive direction to place a temporary hold on the building materials recovery operation and rubble processing operation until the operational review can go to the committee on environment. Staff is currently working to take that to the committee on environment. Once we receive formal recommendations from the committee, the council, and the PUB we will circle back with you to bring those recommendations forward . The budget today as it is proposed still does include the BMR and the rubble processing operation. Once the formal recommendation is made to keep those operations or discontinue on we will make the mid-year budget adjustment based on that. The solid waste budget was approved at the PUB meeting on July 23rd. Excuse me, the fund does maintain a debt coverage ratio of 1.25 in the current proposed budget in each of the future years. The reserve does maintain a fund balance above the 14 and 18 percent fund balance target. We are using a multi -year financial planning tool to minimize rate increases. Cost containment strategies that has gone into preparing this budget. Staff has been working to real ign business units to improve financial reporting the various operations at the landfill. We are proposing a zero-based budget for travel training outside contract services. Please feel free to stop me anytime you have questions. We are in the process of visiting with the COE, the PUB, and the City Council regarding the operational review that was completed above the fully-ridged services. Staff has developed new procedures in-house to evaluate equipment cost, the maintenance costs associated with it, the downtime, and the utilization of it . We will continue to use business case analysis to evaluate projects feasibilities, the cost, and the benefits in the solid waste department. And then the fund is reducing its reliance on debt as the primary funding source of equipment and vehicles. The future risk and mitigations of the solid waste fund currently Blue Ridge, excuse me, new gen strategies is working on a market rate analysis for landfill rates. It will compare the rates at our landfill facility with similar facilities around the Metroplex. Once this is completed we will bring this forward to City Council. Staff has seen an increase in the contamination of recycling commodities around the community, residential commodities, and commercial commodities. We will continue to partner with the community , the school districts, and the community to increase education to reduce the contamination. We will continue to monitor and address compliance issues around the landfill as they arise. We are proposing a 2019 budget to fully fund the annual contribution to the closure post closure fund for 2019. Yes , sir. Councilmember Hudsbeth has a question. Yes, sir. Real quick , on the contamination component of recyclables, how do you, what processes are in place? So let's say you find a bin that's contaminated. What is the process? Does everything just get transferred to then become waste or is it, does someone parse through it? So let me ask Ethan to come up and answer that question for you. It's a very good question. So for solid waste we actually have our own on-site material processing facility. They call it a MRF. I forget what the R stands for. In essence what happens is all of our recycling is co-ming led and so whenever we pick up those containers they go to the processing facility. They have a series of piece of equipment that kind of sort and shake out all the contaminants. This is a problem because there's a lot of cost in sorting through all that. So if someone's throwing food waste or a lawnm ower or a Christmas tree or something in there, there's a cost at that facility for separating that out and then it becomes a cost for that operation. It's challenging in the recycling market right now simply because the price for commodities is rock-bottom. When China pulled out of the recycling market everything took a nosedive. We just don't have the demand on the recycling materials here domestically. We are a little bit more insulated, Pratt's a little bit more insulated. That's our on-site partner because they actually process a lot of their own recyclables into products but that doesn't mean that they're still not exposed to some of the market risk. As a result what you see is there's a premium on clean products right now and so what we're gonna be trying to do is not just allowing the MRF to sort through the contamination for us and dealing with it on the back end. We're gonna try to be a little bit more proactive. As Nick alluded to we're gonna be meeting with the Committee on the Environment about education and outreach program. We want to have kind of a targeted outreach if you will. What we're doing with Pratt right now is they actually go through and will audit, visually audit, a lot of the loads that are being dropped on their floor. What we can do then is tie that to a route and then we can have our staff go out and audit that route, essentially lift lids if you will, and see where is the source of the contamination. We may have some bad actors out in the community that are just using the recycling can as another waste can and whenever that happens our first measure is going to be compliance but education. If we don't really see effects with that we may be circling back to the COE as well as the council to say what do we want to do in terms of enforcement because the last thing we want to do is lift a can, drop it into a recycling bin, it's contaminated. The challenge with contamination is it contaminates that whole load in that truck if the contamination is bad enough and we need to make sure that we're protecting the folks that are doing recycling the right way and we're getting clean product to our processor. So hope that helps. Yes, very much. Thank you. Yeah, just very curious to hear what when you say education do you mean communicate directly with that particular household? Yeah, you said hey we seem to have... It's gonna be a mix of both. There's gonna be some targeted communication. I think households are a little bit more difficult. We're kind of working on a strategy for residential. Commercial is really what we want to target because we do have a high population multi- family properties. The volume of waste and recycling coming out of commercial dwar fs residential as well. So that's where our biggest areas of opportunity are. As we see those route audits, we lift the lids. If we see a problem we're gonna go straight to that property owner or manager and say hey we need we're here to help. Let's let's help you clean this up. If we can't get it cleaned up then we may have to take a look at some alternative measures. And then on the issue of China having pulled out of the recycling market, first of all do we know why and is that a temporary thing or is that like that market is never coming back and then what are the implications of that for our operation? It's a good question and I think that's something that's being discussed quite a bit in the industry is when will the market come back? It doesn't look like China is willing to play ball any longer. In fact I think recently they started pulling out of the metals market. Didn't want any aluminum steel coming from the US and so that affects another component of our operation. It was we do recycle metals and take those to a local facility. What happens with them pulling out if they don't come back in we're really looking at adjusting the supply coming in which is why contamination is so important. We restrict on the front end and we hope that the market develops domestically that will increase demand on the other side of this. But is it a political issue or is it a kind of quality of our material you know supply of the supply that we provide? Is that a crackable nut or you know beyond our control? I'm not sure. Now what I will say is for years China has basically just accepted the US's waste and there's documentaries out there the Chinese government got a hold of what was happening essentially you know they had children sorting through piles of rubble or not rubble but trash lighting plastic containers on fire to see is this recycl able or not and their government got appalled by it and basically closed it off and so it's really kind of an international domestic versus domestic trade issue at this point so we are almost bystanders in that but like I said we are fortunate in that on the East and West Coast the price for recycling paper it's dropped into the negative five dollars per ton so you're actually paying to move your recycling. We're not quite that bad off yet and it's because Pratt is kind of vertically integrated in the industry where they can process some of their own material. Can I go just one step further? As long as it's a local issue not a necessarily geopolitical one. I'm talking about what we can do. Yeah so if you know am I hearing in this that if we could alter our practices so we had you know very high quality streaming material that it wouldn't require them to you know to do practices that they don't you know that they object to you know is that a way to kind of reopen that opportunity for us? That's exactly what we got to look at. I mean we don't necessarily participate in the market ourselves we've probably lost a hundred to two hundred thousand dollars in revenue this year to do to recycling. We've always paid to recycle is probably the best way to say it. What that means is we've got to be cognizant of our private partner there. They are exposed to the market risk if we don't help them correct this problem financially they're going to have a burden to contend with. We're locked into a contract for about seven years with them they want to retain that contract so we're good position but we can't put them in a position business-wise where they're at risk and so we've got to help them clean up this problem. Thank you. Yep. One real quick question you talked about compliance is recycling mandatory or voluntary? It's a mixed bag right now so residential we bundle that in with waste services so it's technically mandatory for our residents. Well what I mean by that is if you go by and see somebody putting something in that shouldn't be there and they continue to do that is that a site is that an offense that is can be somebody can be cited for or is it is it just well I mean sure we pay for it sure pay for the recycling bin but if people don't either want to use it or they use it in an improper way you talk about getting compliance but what and you know we may go into that later that's just a question to consider so we may come out in formal staff report it. Sure I think we're gonna have more conversation on this to answer your question directly from a commercial standpoint it's not required recycling is an open market from a commercial standpoint and multifamily is actually considered commercial by our standards and so we do have a little bit more flexibility there if we see someone abusing the system not treating it properly we can actually say we're switching to waste. We prefer not to do that but that is one of the compliance measures that we may have to explore if we have some bad actors out there. All right thanks. Yes, Councilmember Malmertor. Quick question do you find either City of Denton wide or just in general that when commercial entities have to sort out themselves the recycling in other words different bins for the different you know metal paper etc etc glass does that reduce the likelihood of contamination or is there no no relation? I'm not sure I can answer that there may be a correlation there but I think it's businesses are so different and you know for instance a bicycle shop may be dealing with mostly cardboard but a restaurant is going to be dealing with the whole other mix of different types of wastes and so I think we haven't studied it that much but that may be some of the correlation that we try to find through the analysis. Yeah I would propose that you know when those audits are done and you see who is you know who are the the worst actors in contamination and specifically what kinds of waste they're or what kind of ways they're contaminating and with with with with what kinds of materials the either the shape of the bin or and or you know the requirement to to sort could be you know targeted to to if not prevent then to minimize so I would just encourage you to look into that as a possibility. We certainly will and I think the just to kind of cap off this and I'll let Nick return to the podium is our goal with the outreach is education I think for years the recycling market is kind of taking in everything and that's starting to change and so our goal is we want to protect what's good about the program and make sure folks are all on the same page of what can go on the blue cart what goes in the green cart and then we're all doing our part to help kind of steer the ship correctly so thank you thank you appreciate it. All right let me continue here as I stated we are proposing to fully fund the annual contribution to the landfill closure fund I will point that out to you here shortly on the pro forma we want to continue to build upon regulatory compliance processes at the landfill and then we are in the process of implementing robust training and safety program and solid waste based on the Blue Ridge recommendations. This is the five-year forecast pro forma I'll be happy to walk you through it here in 2019 and the proposed budget which you can see here in this column we are proposing thirty four point eight million dollars in revenue we're proposing thirty four point eight million dollars in expenditures which is shown here we are proposing to draw on the fund balance about three hundred forty nine thousand we are not proposing to draw it down any in the future years moving down the page here the fund bounce currently in 2019 will be eight point three million it will increase to eighteen point one million staff will be recommended to use this fund balance to implement the rate correction strategy once it is completed by noon gin you can see down here the debt coverage ratio is one point three four in 2019 it does increase to two point nine five in 2023 so it is way above the target of one point two five anybody has any questions I'd be happy to answer on this slide questions you know I just I just don't want to pretend that I understand it I feel like if I don't quite get it probably others don't either so what is the relationship between adding to the working capital and operating reserve and changing the rate structure okay I'll explain this to you here if you see the main contributor to the fund balance increasing if you see the debt service here as the fun starts funding things more with cash and less with debt the the debt service does decrease from eight point nine million to five point one million that translates into of course profits or net income it falls down to the fund balance our goal is to address the rates that are under recovering or over recovering is to implement a strategy over a amount of time maybe four to five years to correct those rates where they need to be and draw down on that fund balance to get there so it correct in the right that's the link that I'm incorrect in the not getting sorry to interrupt but just to make sure you're you know to help you help me right I get that as we don't have debt service expense that we build up a reserve I don 't get the relationship between the reserve and changing the rate structure but now how does how does the reserve help you change the rate structure okay they seem like right now we've got we're right now we've got a rate structure it's particular on a commercial side that's continuing to be studied no wholesale and commercial rates both and we're not convinced that they there's under the cost of service analysis that the rate structure is correct so I think what you're hearing is that over time what while you're seeing a fund balance right now that is is high we the plan is going to be over the next few years to draw that down in order to properly put these in place that recover our wholesale and commercial rates based upon objective factors we've got a rate study going on right now that will identify that bring it back to you for a policy discussion with you in the pub and I'm really looking at this budget is kind of a six month placeholder budget to be honest with you because we we're not gonna have that study ready for you but we will be this this picture will look completely different in six months cannot comment the only correlation is the fund balance is just a representation of the revenue and expenses I mean so if you have a high fund balance that means you're probably over recovering in your rates so if you reduce your rates then and you project that out over the five year forecast you're gonna have decreased revenue which means it'll quote-unquote draw down that fund balance that's it just shows that you're over recovering I just just made the connection that it means we want to lower rates okay it's not just about the cross subsidies okay thank you all right these are the solid waste resources the thirty four point eight million dollars in 2019 we saw on the previous slide I do want to walk us through a few things here in the 2018 adopted budget we had revenues of thirty nine point three million we are projecting that to come in at thirty four point nine million the reason for the decrease there is is removing the landfill mining revenue from the budget and then the public sells in the city's natural gas station also want to point out here that the solid waste fund does have a transfer in of five hundred sixty four thousand from the general fund this is the fund materials management traffic occupying 651 South May Hill these are the solid waste expenditures by categories and same thing here in the 2018 adopted budget we had expenditures of thirty nine point three million we are proposing that to come in at thirty four point nine million that decrease is related to landfill mining and public sales in the city's natural gas station being removed this is a solid waste material forecast table we're projecting about a two point four percent growth in residential customers you can see that number here we're increasing from thirty two four four six to thirty three two thirty seven commercial front load side low customers were projecting about a one point five eight percent growth and the commercial roll -off customers is about a seven point one six percent growth based on construction we've seen around the community landfill wholesale tons were projecting about a point two five percent increase there and landfill retail tons coming in the gate about eight point four eight percent growth these are the next steps as the city manager had mentioned we are considering this to be a placeholder budget to get us by to formal recommendations can be made on the rate correction strategy and the operational review once we visit with the Committee on Environment the PUB and City Council further we will come back to you hopefully by February 1st at 2019 with a modified budget council is scheduled to adopt this budget on September 18th as it is presented we were proposing no residential rate increases we are proposing to increase the wholesale rate from 23 a ton to 2450 and then we also will bring the solid waste rate ordinance forward to City Council in September for formal adopted adoption that concludes the financial portion of the presentation I'll stand for any questions you have otherwise Ethan will come up here for the departmental presentation real quick question sir I'm not sure how to ask it we were lowered the solid waste residential rate up was it residential rate about 12 percent 12 percent recently what what is it like if you were to lower the residential rate by 1% what does that equate to in revenue in other words you know like we say well go ahead I'm sorry that's a good question let me see if I can answer here mr. if you see here you can see the residential revenue in 2018 was six point two million dollars so decreasing it by 12 percent this is the refuse revenue it went to 5.6 it's like about six hundred thousand dollars for the 12 percent decrease and then also you have another 400,000 roughly decrease in the recycling component so as Ethan had mentioned they're coupled together the refuse cart and the recycling cart when you decrease it by 12 percent of course both revenue streams go down so it seems like as you move forward on the budget analysis with that reserve fund going to projected to that there's some room in there that if things work out that looks like there could be another rate decrease given the cost analysis service I'm not saying we would but given the health of that balance moving forward that will certainly be an option on the table for the council okay all right thank you any other questions for the financial component of the presentation thank you and I don 't know if you would answer it but it goes towards the revenue and it may be something that we can I can I ask offline but I've had a lot of questions about the different pricing levels between front loaders and side loaders so don't need the explanation right now but it'd be nice to have some explanation of how that pricing is different based upon either the cost of the equipment or cost of whatever so yeah just in the future to be great thank you yep thank you I think to kind of head that off and save us an ISR there shouldn't be a huge difference in the rate structure there and that's one of the things for the rate correction strategy that we're looking at is kind of dial ing those into where they're there's somewhat similar I think there's there's also a strategic component to rate setting is are there certain things that are problematic to handle and certain size containers can be problematic for equipment certain types of materials can be problematic at the landfill so especially when you're in an open market environment you may look at some of those and say we don't necessarily want to encourage folks to be using that type of service not saying that's the case with the front loader side load containers but that is there's a fairly sizable you know relatively speaking difference in at least from what I've heard anecdotally current currently there is and that's something that we're factoring in with Nugent as we go through the rate correction strategy thank you appreciate it so pleasure to be here today my name is Ethan Cox I'm the director of solid waste before I get started I want to kind of throw a few attaboys out this process I joked to the PUB the other day when we started this budget it was 14 months ago my beard was totally brown by then back then so it's almost like a rip being Lincoln effect as I've aged as we've gone through this budget but I know I've also put some years on some of our staff and so I want to provide a kudos to Tina Eck Lee Rodriguez Nick Vincent Cassie Ogden Laura Huell Tony and his group they've done tremendous work we've had basically taking our budget completely apart reassembling it and challenging pretty much every assumption that went into this and so I think the Todd's point we're not done yet six months from now we're gonna have an even clearer picture but they've done a tremendous amount of work as have our managers who've really been challenged to look at every component of their operation also want to thank the council the PUB for their support we brought a number of topics to you over the last 12 to 14 months some of those have been very challenging but a lot of the decisions that this council has made the board have made it really put us in a position to where financially over the next five years we're gonna be in a really really solid position so I'm gonna go through a few slides real quick I'm not gonna hit every bullet point so if you want to stop me and ask questions please feel free to do so as we mentioned a moment ago we have the mid-year rate reduction for residential customers of about 12 percent a lot of that was due to restructuring our capital plan we're not issuing debt for the next two years and that's significant as I'll highlight later on in addition to not issuing debt we've restructured our capital plan we're increasing our ability to address some of our equipment problems you heard from fleet and the Blue Ridge consultants not too long ago our fleet is failing us our trucks that are out there collecting it's really difficult for us to put a full fleet on the street to collect trash every day and collect recycling every day and so we are replacing 13 trucks you 'll be seeing that item coming through on August the 14th I believe those are expedited purchases we're essentially doing two years of replacements at once we'll also have an item next Tuesday for you to consider we're replacing about a million dollar compactor again we're doing all this without any new debt being issued these are unexpected purchases but a lot of the work the staffs put into this is allowing us to address some of those critical issues in our operation that were identified by that consultant some of the things we did to achieve this and a lot of these you're very familiar with landfill mining was eliminated the CNG fueling station saving us a tremendous amount of money every year we eliminated some other ancillary operations as well our goals for fiscal year 1819 we do have a lot ahead of us we're gonna be implementing recommendations for rate study and operational review we also have an audit going on with our scale house which is kind of the front door to the landfill that 's where everything gets weighed people make their payments it's really the nerve center and the cash handling and accounting center for the landfill and it 's really critical that that operation is a well-oiled machine so we'll be circling back with with everyone with the internal auditors on that we've talked briefly about in the past improving our landfill buffer through tree planting our goals right now are to plant trees kind of a phase one improvement along the Mayhill corridor and we'll continue to add trees over the next two to three years as Mayhill realignments completed last thing I'll talk about on this slide is we do have a landfill expansion permit that's ongoing through TCEQ it's been kind of a long and laborious process we're still working with the TCEQ to make sure that we have plenty of landfill airspace capacity for the community's waste needs for the next 30 to 50 years just a quick point I know that there have been some issues in the past with the trees planted around the landfill and of course it's always difficult for you know young trees to survive just a point that I think would be a good idea for solid waste and really any any department also Parks and Rec dealing with planting planting new trees would be that local local gardening groups or group there are a number of them you know be consulted on these issues there are a number of them that I'm sure would be thrilled to consult for free and they have all sorts of ideas and I would would love to help so on the the landfill buffer is that part of the SUP that we're trying to keep in line with yeah we talked a little bit about that that's a good point we talked a little bit about that I guess it was in February is we are trying to kind of live up to the spirit of the SUP there are some some obstacles there they're in our way you have overhead power lines you have construction in the area you also have some limitations on the landfill side so what our goal is to basically mitigate all the tree loss that's happened over the years get up to the number of trees that we we promised the community we would have once we get through the expansion permit for 15 90 B we would like to take a look I think we have three or four separate SUPs out there right now and not all of them are working well together they're somewhat contradictory so once we have the permit through the TCQ what we'd like to do is come back through PNZ through the council and say here's an SUP that basically pulls all that together and that we're comfortable with moving forward that the council is comfortable with moving forward in terms of budget emphasis I think it I want to take a moment and kind of highlight this is one of the things with solid waste we are really changing our kind of culture our vision our direction if you will for years solid waste has been strictly about innovation and pushing the envelope and I'm not here to say that that's a bad thing our preference is though that innovation is not necessarily a destination it's it's a means to achieve your other goals and our goal our mission if you will is to take care of our ratepayers our citizens our community and so all the decisions we make we want to make sure we're providing exceptional value that we consider all facets of a decision and not just whether we're pushing the envelope and that's it so what we have up here on the board is we're basically trying to balance financial performance operational excellence your customer focus and also being sustainable and it really does this doesn't do us much good to be financially sustainable if we're not environmentally sustainable and vice versa and so we want to make sure that as we go through these that we're giving the council and our boards and our citizens a full view of every every component when we make a decision in terms of cost drivers and considerations customer growth increased service demands that's pretty much par for the course for any city operation but we do have some regulatory requirements and changes we can have unfunded mandates either by the TCEQ or EPA that can affect our budget the biggest thing that I want to highlight here though is market pressures unlike some of the other utilities we are exposed to some market pressures the landfill is an open competition commercial recycling is open competition construction can dry up at the drop of a hat Nick highlighted a few moments ago the landfill roll-offs it's not unusual when times get tight for construction to dry up and that line of revenue pretty much evaporates and so for solid waste much like many other operations we have to be very cognizant of how we are compared to the market and monitor the economic conditions because that will and that 's really where the reserve fund and some of that resiliency comes into play in terms of process improvements we've highlighted some of this already one of the other things that we did out out it's solid waste in the last year is we did centralized project management contract management purchasing that's still a work in progress but I think we have our thumb on most every contract that we have out there I kind of wake up at night and hope that one 's not jumping out at us that I'm not aware of but I think we've done a good job of kind of calling that list down and making sure that we have our arms around all that internal controls for the scale house that kind of ties back to the audit that I mentioned to you our goals for future process improvements resource management is going to be a big deal for the next year as we get our leadership team in place it's going to be about how are you building your staffing needs how do you know that this is what you need are you scheduling fairly I 'm telling you as a manager if you want to anger your employees is if you do a poor job of scheduling their time and you're kind of wishy-washy on that then it's going to be a real issue for our operation that's critical there's things that must be done on a daily basis ie lifting cans in the community and making sure we're picking up the recycling in the ways we talked a lot about equipment equipment maintenance planning for our needs better that leads into revenue funding that and then also inventory systems for our carts and containers and if we continue to dabble in commodity sales like crushed concrete soil things like that we've got to do a better job of monitoring our inventory levels last we are going to be focusing we have a position posting right now for a trainer training a safety coordinator we do need a formal training a safety program we are very lean on standard operating procedures we are in a very risky industry very high incident of accidents and fatalities we cannot leave that to risk and so that's going to be a primary emphasis for our staff throughout the next year councilmember breaks has a question so you said something about if we continue to dabble in rocks or so it and soil does that mean that you are looking at the dino dirt to go away no we actually sell soil independent of the dino dirt operation and so what we took typically have done is we've taken in soil from outside haulers a construction project starts they say we have soil to dispose of bring it on in and we'll turn that around to sell it as a commodity we've done a pretty poor job in the past of keeping track of what's coming in and also what's going out if we want to continue to sell that the crushed concrete from the rebel operation we need to know what our inventory levels are at all times what's coming in what's processed what's available for sale and what's been sold it's this was a finding from the weaver consultants last fall and it's continued to kind of be a recurring issue as we've kind of stepped through the last 12 to 13 months so this is something separate than the the dino dirt which I consider to be really successful that's actually going to be under the beneficial reuse budget and so that the revenue we provide a lot of the the brush and yard trimmings and things like that to that operation for composting but that's actually sold through a different operation okay thank you kind of the the end result of a lot of the cost containment things we've talked about I've highlighted again a few of these down here is as Nick highlighted our fiscal year 17 18 expenditures are about 4.4 million under the original plan budget that's a reduction of about 11.2 percent that what that's allowed for is the 12 percent residential rate reduction the flexibility to implement our rate reduction strategy as we go through the next few years and because we would not have realized the revenues under landfill mining or the CNG operation our estimation we potentially avoided a pretty substantial loss in our division and so I think again hats off to our staff they've done a tremendous amount of work it was kind of hard work under the gun but I think it's really paid off and I'm glad to see that kind of the fruits of the labor's kind of show in terms of positions solid waste had 132.5 positions budgeted last year we're reducing that down to 122.5 basically the 10 FTE reduction is from landfill mining we're maintaining some additional vacancies we want to have some flexibility to go through our reorganization that we talked about with the Blue Ridge consultant and so when we come back the mid- year rate reduction we may have an even different picture than this as we start implementing but we want to make sure we have the appropriate amount of staff both in the management ranks as well as on the front line one other thing that I'll note on here and it's not necessarily apparent in the budget for years solid waste has had a huge dependence on temporary contracted labor to the tune of about six hundred seven hundred thousand dollars a year that doesn't show up on this but one of our strategies that we're moving forward is we want to develop our own talent we want to provide a career path for them and provide them some incentive to stay the solid waste and construction industry for truck operators as well is very hot it's hard to hold on to staff our goal is as management is to develop our own talent and keep them in house Nick talked about our five-year capital plan a little bit earlier again we are not issuing any debt for the next two fiscal years we're addressing some of the underlying issues with our fleet and our equipment on the out years here you'll see disposal and landfill 2023 we do have a new cell development that is just outside this window our goal would be if we play our cards right try to revenue fund cell development as well those assets are typically about five to seven years in life issuing debt for that is you know probably 50 /50 in the industry but we'd like to avoid any type of debt service and interest if we can to that in you can kind of track here and see how we're doing from revenue funded to debt funding right now we're at about 2.5 percent for the upcoming year we have a ton of unallocated debt that we've put to work and so as you kind of go out through these years by 2023 almost 80% of our our capital plan is going to be funded by revenue and we think we can probably not only achieve that but actually see that goal so with that Nick mentioned a few next steps I'll kind of double back on a few of those so we are going to be coming back to the PB and the council in September with our rate ordinance again that 's like Todd said that's a placeholder that thing is going to be fluid for the next three to five years we also want to make sure that we're taking in council and PB feedback and direction on how we implement that strategy we are going to be circling back on a number of programs over the next two to three quarters first up is going to be talking a little bit about education for recycling cleaning up contamination will also be highlighting yard waste to be in our rebel operation etc so as those things are discussed with council decisions and directions given that will certainly inform kind of the mid-year budget reevaluation that will provide to you so with that that's the end of my presentation I'll be certainly be glad to stand for any questions I think that does that conclude agenda item 1a okay all right we'll move on to agenda item 1b which is received report hold discussion give staff direction regarding the FY 2018-19 city managers proposed budget capital improvement program and five-year financial forecast mayor city council Tony point the director finance thank you for having me this morning just like Ethan I want to kind of start off really quick just to thank all our staff certainly our partner departments out there that provide a lot of information to us in the budget office and the finance department work collaboratively with us as we try to respond to your questions and and try to get a good understanding of the request and make adjustments as necessary I certainly want to thank our finance staff both we have a number of financial staff in the utilities but also in our main finance department our accounting department that have done a stellar job gotten into a lot of details work very hard you know Nancy toll our our budget manager and a number of other folks that have been very instrumental in putting this budget together I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that I've done all the work they've certainly done all the work and so I want to recognize them and thank them for a job well done certainly want to thank the city manager's office for you know their support and their leadership throughout this whole budget process there's been a lot of ups and downs and a lot of a lot things that we pulled pulled apart to get to where we are today I just want to briefly just mentioned that you know this process really kind of started back in August of 2017 if I if I think back when we first started doing an intense review but you know with the city manager's office and that 's on the CIP program you know we then had a number of meetings with the bond oversight committee out of finance committee on the CIP program and recommended some changes to many of those projects that really led us to where we are today on the CIP recommendations for you then you know in March through June we started really having discussions with you on our on our utility budgets taking a deep dive into those budgets with both the PUB and also with the City Council and of course in June we started our departmental budget presentations that's our second year that we do that with the council certainly would appreciate your feedback regarding those departmental presentations if there's things that we're missing things that maybe may have been a little too much we certainly want to hear from you if there's any adjustments need to be made into the into the next year and then we we've had two preliminary budget discussions with you on the general fund back in June 12th and on July 17th July 17th the council really provided a lot of direction to us that really leads us to to where we are today and to steal a little bit of if you 're familiar with with seven habits and Stephen Covey I'm going to start kind of at the very tail end of this presentation just to briefly kind of begin with the what's called the the end in mind so just want to really quickly just mention that the total proposed budget for 18-19 for the city is about 1.2 billion dollars that's comprised of about 31 operating special revenue internal service funds a number of grant funds and you know probably more CIP funds that that I have time to talk to you about today all this is being managed by by this entire organization so I just wanted to kind of start with the end in mind that happens to be slide 44 so hopefully we can go through this relatively quick and and provide a lot of answers for you so there are there are a number of filler slides in here I will mention that this is a revised budget presentation for you I did send it out to you last night I've added three slides I'll quickly just bring those to your attention slide number eight regarding the effective tax rate calculation slide number 13 and I've provided a hard copy for you slide number 13 is a five-year growth data that was requested and then slide number 30 is a breakdown of the downtown TERS values we'll go through that another mayor had a question that I think I have a pretty good answer mayor so we'll we'll see before you really dive into this is there a particular process that you I mean maybe go a few slides and hold questions or what do you think is best for you as far as in the presentation you know I think what might be a good idea mayor my recommendation would be a week let us go through the general fund and also the capital improvement program with the general debt service fund that that's just gonna be really a recap of both what the certified values came in at and what we heard from you on the 17th with some minor with some modifications and then that might be a good stopping point before we got it get into some of the some of the special revenue funds internal service funds and and what have you so so if there were questions that we had on the budget presentation the the book proposed annual program of services when is the best time to just sort of incorporate those as they come up in the presentation per category or certainly you know whatever your pleasure might be I think from just from a standpoint of chronology it probably makes sense that as we get to those specific questions we can do that so fantastic everybody okay with that all right fantastic all right thank you so so today's objectives certainly will cover the general fund the the debt tax rate impact to some of the CIP programs that we've talked to you about already we'll go through special revenue funds internal service funds cover the enterprise funds as I mentioned earlier solid waste budget has already been covered with for you a little while ago so I won't go through through the entire budget we'll talk a little bit about the overall capital program for the city and then go to the next steps for you some of the budgetary priorities these are things that you've kind of heard both last year and certainly this year both for me as I'm coming up here making presentations to you but certainly by our departmental directors as well when they present their budgets but you know we continue to focus on cost containment improving organizational efficiency we've made a number of changes to our budget process we've looked at and dissected a number of our budgets and certainly we'll talk a little bit more about those today continue to to enhance street maintenance and inspection capacity we are proposing a one cent increase to the city calculated effective rate we'll talk a little bit about that it'll be dedicated to the capital improvement projects that you previously at least gave us the tentative thumbs up on the seventh on July 17th expanded public safety capacity and certainly maintaining a competitive compensation plan so some of the assumptions that have gone want to just preface with the fact that you know when we when we look at our preliminary values they are preliminary values there's a lot of movement there's a slide that I have in here regarding the market values and how they adjust from the very first or the very initial preliminary values that we get from the central appraisal district to where we end up with the certified values I will point out that the certified values are really a point in time those certified values continue to to change throughout the year through what's known as supplements that come through from the appraisal district as properties are moving from the appraisal review board status many cases some may end up in court and there's decisions that are made values can ebb and flow even from the certified value and just as example for the 2017 tax year currently as we were preparing this budget for you we were already on supplement number 33 of the 2017 certified value and so that certified role continues to be modified and changed throughout the year so again this is a point in time that will continue to fluctuate as we go through so as as I previously I mentioned to you in a little teaser the last time on the on July 17th our values overall values did increase 9.7 percent that does includes the TERS values I'll talk to you a little bit about some of the captured or the incremental value that goes into the TERS beyond the base and so and I'll explain some of the differences there mayor on the questions that you've had this forecast continues to assume an effective tax rate for the for the five years of of that forecast with just new value that's being added the debt service portion of the tax rate did increase we are proposing to increase that one cent to 21 754 from 20 754 for 18 19 dedicated to funding some of the capital programs that we previously talked about we'll go about through those days well the M&O what's called the operations portion of the tax rate that is proposed to decrease about two cents again that's being offset by the increase in the debt service side for a proposed tax rate of 62 cents which is a one cent above the effective rate that's calculated by the city but but it does but that is a 1.7 cent decrease from the current year tax rate that the six three eight seven three seven five six sales tax assumptions these have been slightly modified based on the outcome of the certified values we did go back and scrub the budget a little bit take a closer look we have increased the assumptions here to five percent of the revised estimate from you what you previously saw we are proposing a five percent or projected five percent increase in years two and three of that forecast four percent in years four and five I do have a sales tax history that will go through that kind of may give you some comfort on where those numbers may be coming from where we might end up finally franchise fees as has been the council's direction all growth and franchise fees is being shifted to the Street Improvement Fund in addition to that an additional six hundred and twenty two thousand dollars of franchise fees is moving into the the Street Improvement Fund we that is a ten-year plan by by the by year five of this forecast we will still have about 1.8 million dollars of franchise fees in the general fund and so we'll still have a couple more years to go before a hundred percent of those franchise fees have been shifted over to the Street Improvement Fund based on the current direction that we have from from the council just quickly want to talk a little bit about our vacancy management program so this program is one that's that's continued we 've had this for a number of years but certainly as a positions become vacant there is a process that departments go through both through the assistant city manager and city manager to request refilling those positions a justification process as a result of some of those decisions and timing there are salary savings that are generated there's there's time time delays in hiring replacement people that generate sales to not sources but salary savings that we're projecting about two million dollar salary savings in 1819 of this plan we think with a normal attrition and and some of these strategies that will be be able to achieve those salary savings and then finally just this add some additional flexibility to deal with some you know revenue shortfalls certainly we're not beyond doing any hiring freezes when those may be appropriate those are just standard kind of practices across that just governmental entities but even private sector so but none be recommended at this point compensation and benefits you know this this plan does include civil service pay adjustments to maintain the mean confer agreements a 3% average merit for all other employees and in 3% merit increases that are projected in within that five-year forecast health insurance on funding is is projected to be 3% increase the city's contribution to the health insurance fund we are also we'll also be making recommendations to plan design changes on the employee side some of those include utilizing CVS is the primary pharmacy for city employees that does create some reductions increasing and some of the sp ousal surcharge there's a number of those if you have some questions about those certainly stop pain is here yes ma'am could you say a little something about how merit increases are determined so this is a 3% average merit increase that's that's budgeted across the board certainly employees are eligible for a 0% increase to to a range of 4% for those that are above what 's called the p50 range which is the mid-level for positions positions that are below that mid-level can go up to 5% and it's all merit based and so depending on where that employee ranks in their rating for their performance for the previous year then that then determines what percentage of arrays they would have and so it varies from zero to as high as 5% with an average 3% across the organization yeah I thought we set out that we'd go through the general we go through the general fund budget presentation then ask questions so I'd like to yeah yeah I'd like to stay on that because I've got several that I've sort of bypassed so just let us know when you're through it so if y'all would just not my mind taking notes on your questions especially on your president no no you're good here because yeah we'll start getting into this and then we'll be here okay yep okay thank you so so finally with as a regards to benefits we have seen a this is a another year of decreases to the city's team RS contribution is budgeted for 20 for 2019 to be a 17 .1 8% down from 17.3 1% for 2018 and and still further decrease from 2017 fire pension rate is proposed to remain at the current level at 18.5% budget does include a $200,000 line item for an actuarial impact related to to dispatchers regarding the property values and and the effective tax rate that this provides you a breakdown I'll go through in a minute how how these numbers come about but as I've already mentioned we're proposing a tax rate of 62 cents for 1819 the calculated a state calculated effective rate is actually 68 cents and as I mentioned I'll talk to you a little bit about that the robot rate rate is 72 cents for publication purposes and and for consideration later today in setting the maximum or what is considered the ceiling we are proposing the current tax rate again the council is not obligated to adopt that rate as certainly we're proposing a 62 cent but if the council were to want to increase beyond the proposed tax rate they would not be able to go beyond the maximum tax rate without going through the state required publication process again it's just there to to provide flexibility certainly there's nothing that's tied to time the council the certified taxable value is already mentioned to use a 9.5 3% increase over the prior year with certified values including terms being at 99.7% so quickly I did have a number of questions and I provided this slide previously but I'm gonna try to go through this really quickly here with you so so this year is the first year of the over 65 and disabled tax ceiling or the tax limitation and so in preparing the truth intact was called truth and taxation calculation we do work closely with Denton County with the Texas District Collector's Office in this calculation we perform our own calculation internally they perform their calculation we we discuss it until we arrive at a calculation that's that's mutually agreeable and so with with this calculation within the first year and so again the effective tax rate is the amount of taxes from the previous year that need to be generated by the new value this year right so is you know on the same amount of properties as you can see here this first year there is a 1.2 billion dollar reduction to the to the certify to the assessed value the taxable value related to properties that were on the roll last year that became eligible for a tax freeze this 1.2 billion represents the appreciated value of those properties from 2017 those properties and in the previous year paid approximately seven point two million dollars and again that value in the previous year just backing into that calculation was about 1.1 billion dollars based on the tax rate from last year and the amount that that they'll be paid that they will pay this year again as I mentioned those properties the with some exceptions right but by and for those properties the same amount of taxes that they paid last year will be the same amount of taxes they pay this coming year and frankly from here on out barring changes in in in their structure and and some other things that could potentially drive that up that is a ceiling so this calculation does back that out it it also backs out a new value that was represented by this 324 million dollars to arrive at a nine point seven billion dollar taxable value this this represents the properties the same properties from last year and so those same properties to be able to generate the same amount of revenue from last year 66 million dollars would result in a 68 cent effective tax rate certainly we do not agree with with this calculation this is a first-year issue we believe next year's calculation will back out the new ceiling from the new value but also back it out from the from the previous year 's value you know we continue to study that to make sure that we have a good understanding and so in the city's calculation what what we've done is we've again left out the one point two billion dollars in value that's associated with those frozen properties from last year that have been appreciated we've then backed out nine point two million dollars that I've showed down here from the taxes from the prior year right and so then the calculation then is how much revenue do properties that paid that pay their taxes last year how much in effect in the effective rate would they have to pay to generate the same amount of revenue as last year and that's how we arrive at the 60 61 cents again this is a a first-year impact certainly we recognize that and so that's why that's why we're calling this the the city calculated effective rate as a result of this there there are some within the statute the statute stipulates that if you will exceed the lower the effective or the rollback rate that there are certain publications and public hearings that need to be made if you do not exceed that then you're not required to hold the public hearings because of the nature of this calculation and because it does appear that we that our proposed rate is below the effective rate knowing that that's not the case we are still proposing that the council still proceed with the publication and also the two public hearings certainly there's a state law requirement to hold a public hearing on the budget so our proposal that we still go forward with that even though we're gonna be below the state calculated effective rate any objections to that I wouldn't think there would be so okay just want to get that direction okay is that an objection to that or a question you that we 're gonna hold till the end yeah that's I'm questioning the value of holding questions on this to the end because I think it'd be a lot more useful I'm happy to do it if you really want to do how many more slides till the final general budget several ten or twelve okay I'm gonna make an exception on this because it's fairly complicated especially with the impact of the tax freeze but if I could get my colleagues to help me with after this slide to you know because I'm tabbing presentations and I appreciate that appreciate that go ahead yeah because I just want to make sure I'm clear so the only difference between the truth and taxation calculation in the city you know is the high the first highlighted row and the and the resulting effective tax rate so I just want to make sure I'm crystal clear you know what because I actually because I think I got frankly different answers than what we had offline then what you're saying now at least I don't understand it what what is excluded my understanding from our prior conversation was that the state calculation requires us to assume no revenue from frozen properties which is is that is that still a correct understanding because I didn't feel like I was hearing you say that today you know I'm seeing the footnote here about about the turrs being the kind of you know main difference so yeah the key thing for us to understand right is what's in and what's out yes the answer the answer the answer is yes by backing out the entire value but not adjusting the prior year's revenue the the calculation basically excludes seven point two million dollars and so it assumes that you're not going to receive seven point two million dollars but it's nothing to do with the turrs which is sort of what the foot note seems to know correct it has nothing to do with the turrs again it just I just want to explain what that note explains there's other adjustments that go into this levy yeah so the in discussing this this particular matter with the appraisal with the with the county the idea is that that's seven point two million dollars could potentially be deferred by these by these property owners I did go back and I looked at a five-year history again those property owners that are over 65 and disabled were already able to do those defer rals prior to this this freeze based on a five-year history about ten percent of our over 65 and disabled have deferred their taxes but at year end the majority of those property owners pay their taxes and so it's a very small percentage of property owners that are over 65 and disabled prior to the tax freeze that that did not pay their taxes within that first tax year based on that trend I could not in good conscience assume that the city would not receive the full seven point two million dollars and so in the city calculation while I back out the seven point two million from the last year's tax rate to arrive at what that effective rate will be we I still do assume on on the back end and as part of and I can point that out in the in the proposed document I do assume that that revenue will come into the city and so so hopefully that explains well just went I'll take it just one step further just you know for everyone's benefit so so by the state saying assume nothing comes from frozen properties and coming up with this higher effective tax rate it makes it look like we're calling for like a big tax decrease right because we're gonna come in below the effective tax rate but that's not that's not true it's not a huge decrease because they're not and and it's a pretty it's a pretty thick thin read right to say there's no there's no really strong rationale for excluding all the revenue that we know we actually are going to get from those frozen properties if you assume that that this if we assume that the city would not receive seven point two million dollars in order to generate that additional seven point two million you would have to have a higher effective rate on the rest of the properties that did not have that tax freeze and so in essence you would be shifting that burden but again based on our history based on on what I've been able to look at regarding deferrals I do not believe that that's seven point two million dollars will not come to the city yeah okay so I don't know if that helped anyone else but I appreciate that you know forbearance go ahead for next year next year I would be interested at this at this time I would be interested to know what you know what ended up happening with that that that seven point two seven point two million that would be that would be interesting to see what ends up happening and so we've certainly gone through some preliminary preliminary review of that based on some assumptions it is my belief that next year because that that tax ceiling amount next year will be backed out of both the 2018 and the 2019 values that the effective rate will normalize around this 61 cent rate and again because at that point what you're talking about is the effective rate on properties that do not have the freeze but again you know the assumption will still be and we'll have one year of history that those properties that are eligible for the freeze even in the event that they were defer their properties again only about 10% of those of those properties are deferring their taxes and even then they're still paying them before the end of the tax year I believe that we'll still need to assume that we're gonna get that revenue that makes that make sense real quick question so my I understand it's probably maybe up in this slide it may not be so this tack that 1.253 what I'm really interested in is the for this year and the state has their own calculations for 2017 2018 the new certified value yes do we know because even though you have a tax freeze your properties still get assessed so those values still go up which they're just not subject to the taxes so is that 1.253 million the amount of increase only in the properties that were not not their base value but just the increase for those properties that were able to be frozen both over 65 and disabled my assumption well while there's likely some properties that have fallen off that are that are eligible for a number of reasons our assumption is that all of this is increased value from what was there last year now going forward there'll be some compl ication and what is that the accreted value versus new value that comes on so there's properties today for 2018 that are now eligible under the freeze and this will be their first year 20 18 will be their first year under the freeze next year they'll be added into this value but the 2017 properties will acc rete again right and so so it is that information is not provided to us within within the role is certainly something that we can request from the apprais al district to see if they can provide that to us well yeah I think what would be interesting and helpful is if we were able to determine that let's say my property last year was valued at $200,000 I paid X number of taxes this year it went up to 250 so that $50,000 increment I'm not gonna pay taxes on I mean because it's frozen correct and if my value goes down then I pay that but so I'd be curious as to what is that value increase on a yearly basis and on because then what it shows us is the impact budgetary wise of those taxes not showing up and I don't think we really see that here I mean because you're saying the 1.253 is the increase in value of those over 65 but yeah I don't think that's the difference it's a difference between the 1.1 from the that I calculated from the previous year and the 1.2 oh okay so it's about 250 something million or 100 million okay that that would be interesting because then we take that we can say okay 100 million of increased value is off the rolls because of the freeze you apply the tax rate let's just say 0.62 and you get what is not being collected based upon that correct and I think that's interesting to know just moving forward just so that we have an understanding of not to say we should or shouldn't have done that but just it's just a piece of information that I think is helpful as we see it accumulate and certainly this year is far more pronounced because one it's not backed out of the previous year right you have a lot of properties that in the first year become eligible I think in future years based on some of the projections that we've kind of gone through and I know that that kind of varies I think in future years that won't be as pronounced you know we are reaching out to some of our sister cities that have had these this freezes in place to see how they're doing and how they're working through those calculations but certainly this is a is a first-year impact we don't believe that going forward the impact would be as pronounced but certainly some of that will be will be there as as new properties become eligible for the for that freeze or that for that tax ceiling and not that anything can be done about it I mean yeah it's just more informational purposes yeah correct I think the message here mayor is that that those properties that will be that that that paid seven point two million dollars in last year that are anticipated pay that amount this year that the assumption is that those properties will pay based on our history and so assuming that that that that none of that revenue will come to the city you know I don't know that's that's bogus I mean I don't even know that that's just a fallacy in state law I don't know why they do that because people history doesn 't bear that out and it's not I mean you're still charged interest and so that's correct backing the whole thing out just doesn't make sense but that's the law that's what you got to present yep correct so councilmember Duff yeah I think you just said you know if they defer it okay they're still they will eventually be paid at some point in time and it's 8% interest so I think it's 8% I think it's I think it's 8% I don't quote me on there but I think it is I know people that have done that yep okay councilmember Meltzer yeah just a final point underscore that I've suggested that include this kind of small but annoying matter on the legislative agenda you know just just to clean it up I think it's obviously an error and it's no longer a truth in taxation calculation it's a you know something other than truth right right okay all right so we're back on track to our process okay great forward all right glad I was able to get through that one so so this this just provides you a history I'm going to go through you know this this slide here in detail other than to just to point out that again since 2015 we've seen a pretty good decrease in our in our tax rate you know this really was tied to initially the beginning of the 2014 bond program if you recall and that about that bond program assumed a up to a three cent increase so we did increase the debt side of that but it was simply a shift from the operations to the to the debt rate and then subsequent to that we began to really focus in on on the effective rate that has really driven the overall tax rate down since 2015 and based and as based on the proposed rate today it's almost a seven cent decrease in in the overall tax rate in the city of Denton so this was a slide that that that was added at a request it was already in your in your original packet but what this does and again I just want to point out these are market values not taxable values so this night this not this does not take out any of the the exemptions and so we looked at the initial or one of the first preliminary roles that we received from the appraisal district back in April at that time the total assessed value or total market value of properties was about fifteen point two billion dollars and then fast forward to the certified value that we received on Monday July 23rd down to thirteen point seven billion dollars as a decrease of nine point one percent again this just kind of shows you a little bit of the difficulty or the challenge in in projecting early some of these values because of some of the drops I will point out that the largest drop was certainly in the commercial properties saw a drop of four hundred sixty six million dollars eleven point four percent from where they started second to that was a multifamily four hundred and forty two million dollars followed by by oil and gas and then land and single -family residences and so some of this is certainly you know based on on app raisal protests how the appraisal how the Central Appraisal District assesses these properties on market values versus a number of other methods that they have and so again I just wanted to put this up here I don't know if you have any specific questions on it but again just shows you the you know where we start and where we end up in those values well I do but I'll wait till the end okay yeah so a little bit of history for you here on on appraised values where where we've been certainly back in 2013 we saw a single-digit increases you know going back a little further we did we have been in situations where we've seen decreases or a dramatic slowdown and appraised values back in 2010 as an example we saw a one and a half almost 1.6 percent decrease in in overall values in the city from the 2009 values that doesn't show up here again just gives you a breakdown of of the 9.53 percent this excludes the TERS the the value that's been added to to the role this year I've given you a breakout here a new construction about 318 million dollars and then the existing property reapp raisals a little bit over a six hundred and sixty six million dollars gives you here on this slide I provided for you the increase in the average home value this is the taxable value increase from two hundred fourteen thousand dollars to two hundred and thirty three thousand dollars that two hundred fourteen thousand dollar home based on last year's tax rate paid about thirteen hundred in city taxes and then the two hundred thirty three thousand dollar average home and based on the proposed tax rate will pay about fourteen hundred dollars a little bit of sales tax history for you that tends to give you some context of where our projections are we certainly you know you know sales tax is certainly a volatile source of revenue based on number of economic factors spending habits consumer spending available as spending dollars from consumers and so we have certainly have seen and been at decreases in in ourselves tax revenue I think mr. Langley probably still has some of the some of the scars from those years but over over that period we've seen some certainly some ups and downs in in growth I did look at just anecdotally for you ten-year average has been about about six percent five- year average has been about seven percent and the last three-year average has been about nine nine point nine percent almost ten percent increase over that three-year period certainly you know our projections going forward you know we we do believe our conservative you know again a lot of factors out there that that that could impact the sales tax revenue we are projecting 41 million dollars almost forty one and a half million dollars in sales tax revenue that will that will come to the city in fiscal year 1819 this was a one of the one of the new slides that I've added for you that was that was requested there's a number of data points here I'll just kind of concentrate on a couple for you and turn that there's questions we can come back to the slide CPI for the DFW region you know CPI if you're familiar is really takes a basket of goods for for a resident if you will on some of their spending that's increased about six point five percent over this this period of time since 2013 to the current year average home values have increased about 36 percent I will mention to you here that just quickly fire and police these are actual expenditure budgets and and just let me point out that when we're looking at these expenditures for these departments there may be some one-time there may be some some changes within those budget years that we've not accounted for we've just simply taken what the total spending was in those years and so over that period of time police budget has grown about 27% the fire budget has grown 24% library in comparison 9% parks 24% and in the rest of the city's budget about 29% there's a number this isn't all department al spending there's a lot of transfers that go into that number as well Tony yes sir we've been going about an hour and a half let 's just take it I was gonna hopefully get through the slides but we got about seven or eight left so let's go ahead take about a five or ten minute break welcome back everyone to this meeting of the Denton City Council on Thursday August the 2nd 2018 it is 1012 we are resuming our discussions for our work session reports on work sessions in to item 1b which we're discussing the proposed city manager's budget Tony all right mayor's the council Tony point that director finance here we go slide number 13 44 almost there almost there we're good okay I did just briefly I did mention to David Gaines who's our new assistant finance director that when the questions come he 'll come up here and he'll answer those for you so I'll joke in the side so again this was a slide again I've hit on a couple points I did just want to quickly I mentioned that there was another data point on here that that is not on here and that's population growth so over that period of time it's been about 11% increase in population for the city that's not shown on here it's certainly something that that you know that's easily accessible but I did want to just kind of point that out so getting into the the proposed budget again for this is this is just for the general fund so general fund revenues for 2018-19 are projected to be approximately hundred twenty seven point eight million dollars this gives you a breakdown of where those where those revenues are projected to come from 36% will be ad valorem taxes that includes both current taxes and also delinquent taxes that go into kind of that bucket sales taxes comprised about thirty two and a half percent of the city's revenue certainly those are the by far the the two largest only over 60% of the city's revenues come from those two sources and then that's then followed by a number of other sources here that won't go through in detail certainly if you have some questions later we can come back to this slide the total expenditure budget for the general fund is a hundred twenty nine point two million dollars as you can see here this gives you a breakdown of where that spending occurs across the various city departments on the next slide will kind of go through with the breakdown by department but 67% of those expenses are associated with with personnel that includes base salaries and also also benefits closely followed by cost of service transfers operations certainly if you have some questions about those we can go through those here towards the end overall expenditure general fund budget by by department we did break out the animal services from the police so this shows you what the police budget includes is a 25% I will mention and I'll look to my staff I believe that this 25% does that include dispatch or excluded okay well we can come back to you follow up with you on that we did separate out dispatch just again I don't know that I had here 23% is associated with the fire department followed by Parks Department 8.8.3% libraries at 4.6% we have up here is the revised five-year forecast for the general fund again for 1819 we are proposing to draw down the city's fund balance by about 1.4 million dollars if and I'll go through this on the when we get to the supplementals by far that that is associated with one-time expenditures associated with with the with the supplementals we project that our fund balance will be for at the end of 1819 about 23 and a half percent that's certainly within our 20 to 25 percent range out in the out years a year really year five we get below that that target again there's a number of factors that go on into each year of this forecast that will will be coming back next year and making it you know making further adjustments there's a number of things that that we 're already looking at potentially doing within the general fund that could have a positive impact of where the fund balance is for the general fund again this is a this is a working plan living plan over that five-year period Council only adopts the 1819 budget certainly within the context of this five-year forecast so if there's questions about this we can certainly come back to that I won't go through all these supplemental requests only if there's a question about these all our partner departments are here they'll be happy to come up believe me that we'll be happy to come up and answer questions but this is the same amount that you saw on July 17th direction that we've heard from the council is to move forward we've we've included these in some cases some of these expenditures are already underway and some certainly some of the smaller ones have actually already completed but but those will be funded out of the 1718 current year budget for 1819 I did want to point out two changes that we made since we met with you on July 17th and that's the sex assault investigator if you recall that was previously on the unfunded list we've now included in the funded list and same thing with the victim advocate these are two police department positions they are being offset to some extent by by grants as I understand the sex assault investigator grant the council will be considering appro ving that or considering the approval of that grant here relatively soon we've been advised that that we've been awarded the grant council just needs to accept it the victim advocate grant is still in works we'd anticipate a decision on that for a couple more months but certainly we'll continue to look at that and the council will certainly once that grant is awarded we'll have the option to consider accepting that but but I do want to mention that that those two positions that those are the changes that from what you saw back in on July 17th that have been added to this to the supplemental list then the the the remainder of the supplementals that are here are those that are currently unfunded I do want to point out a couple of items on this list one being the the air truck the other two being the traffic master third thoroughfare plan and also the mobility master plan as we get closer to the end of fiscal year 17 18 if if there's excess balances as a similar tool we saw last year hopefully not to to that extent but we we could see slight increases in the fund balance if that is the case we will then come back to you and likely propose to utilize that fund balance or that those excess revenues to fund these these these three items and again depending on the amount that that we may be over if we're over other items may be considered as well we'll we 'll certainly keep you abreast of those of the outcome of fiscal year 17 18 that really concludes the the section on on the general fund operating mayor if you'd like I can go on to the capital side which is the debt side or if you want to go back and ask questions Stanford questions now so we're just gonna go around the horn we're just start over Councilmember Briggs and we'll just go around and as people your time comes just go ahead and ask the questions that you have and so we're not gonna break it up just ask all that you have and we'll just take it councilperson at a time because some of me get answered right well most of my questions that I have notes on are about the utility ordinance changes so that's different but I do want to know on the the supplemental funding that are unfunded yes ma'am my question about the thorough thorough fare plan is that the county just came out with theirs and I'm wondering if it would be in our interest to do the same at the same time so that they overlap let me see Todd Estes could probably answer that now Todd Estes city engineer so we've been talking to the county we've been very cognizant and what their changes are we meet with them start out monthly and now we're meeting every two months just because by so busy and trying to get that group together it's been difficult but that is one of the topics that has been a very big driver for revising our master thoroughfare plan is they recently to theirs there's a an intent that between the two groups because we do meet each every two months that we would their master thoroughfare plan would evolve as ours does with feedback back and forth and that would be a continuing ongoing process so that over time we're both working together to get there we're also bringing in what we know from cog and text out their impacts would be so that we really do get a comprehensive master thoroughfare plan out of it so it would be beneficial the quicker that we could do ours probably the better absolutely and one of the things that the county 's already offered to us is that they would share all of their geographic information software data so that we have their information already and then we 'll be able to build off of that and as we need to adjust we'll be able to just send that information back and forth and I'm sorry and by and by sharing that data would that reduce the cost of ours or is that something completely it's kind of already built into that it's some of the baseline information but it won't have an overall impact in the cost of what we're projecting there's just that much work we need to do to it okay thank you yes ma'am customer running questions oh I'm sorry I thought you're finished go ahead and I just have another one about the the police I brought it up last time in that there's been question or comment that the animal shelter is understaffed and I'm wondering if that's been addressed in the supplementals or if that is something that you guys have talked about it's not being addressed in the supplementals right now we do have chief Smith and his staff are working with actually mr. Langley to work away through the staffing plan there and there's some other management issues that we're dealing with as well if it turns out that we need to add some additional staff we will address that throughout the course of the year okay and the last question is I think I've brought it up as well but several budgets ago I remember an ADA master plan that was approved that we were talking about and I don 't I haven't recalled anything or seen it continued on any of our supplementals I'm just kind of looking for an update on that sure so the ADA master plan there is evolving in multiple steps so where we are right now is in the initial collection of data phase we have a contract that will be moving forward here very quickly I know pre-tem may have more of an update if I go wrong here but we are collecting data first so we know where the holes in our system really are we need to we're also working with I think Kimmy Horn to both evaluate the data but then give our field crews the ability to evaluate an intersection as we're there and see what kinds of updates need to be made throughout the city holistically it's a very involved process but we are working on that one right now we have the funding we need to get us through this first phase I would anticipate that by the end of this this next fiscal year we would be coming back with an expanded version of what do we do next okay so that is still funded I just wanted to make sure the okay thank you we're on this slide I'll stay here Todd I guess since there are two different plans master thoroughfare plan in the mobility plan can they be done separately or do they really need to be done as this one package so the mobility plan as we have it currently the city uses it and as we would intend to completely use it is it's the combination of the master thoroughfare plan which is primarily the streets plan with the bicycle plan and the pedestrian plan and then ultimately laying in the ADA transition plan as well so all of those things would make up the mobility plan this would give us a revision of the bike and pedestrian components as well okay all right I think the other question is probably for Tony on this on this particular slide if we decide not to renew the red light camera when the contract comes up in July could the revenue left in that be used for the traffic signal programs is that considered a safety issue that we can we can use those revenues for at that time we did we did look at that within the context of the fact that we currently have that program we did not feel that those were eligible expenditures under under the statute now what if that red light pack program is not renewed and that balance is there and that should become unrestricted dollars I'm kind of looking at our city attorney on that that would be our interpretation that would be unrestricted dollars at that point it's about 1.2 million dollars that we would have in that fund we believe that potentially it could be utilized for really any governmental purpose but but I don 't know that a hundred percent okay a couple of other questions going back to the three percent merit merit base increase does that include industry necessary increases you know as construction has increased throughout the metroplex the cost of a backhoe operator has gone up is that included in that or is that something separate that we need that's generally something separate when in those instances we've seen it with frontline poison construction crews we've seen with the dispatchers this past year we've gone in and adjusted the salaries utilizing savings throughout the general fund so right now the the base pay is where we believe it needs to be for most those positions and I do have I do have the human resources staff studying salaries throughout the year based upon exit interviews and what we're seeing happening in the market so it's a hot market right now and there's still some of those trends that we're keeping an eye on but our intention is part of the reason Tony builds in the two million dollars in salary savings each year is just to make sure that we've got the dollars to be flexible enough to adjust to market demands that have recruit and retain our employees okay then on slide number 10 what is the other that had a hundred and eight percent increase as opposed to a decrease do we know I don't I don't have that here with me but I can certainly get that to you again I think in the context of the 1.3 billion relatively small likely probably a business personal property if it's my guess yeah look at my staff they're saying yes that's what it is that would definitely make sense the increase in homestead values from 214 to 233 it's I think you've got on the next slide does that include the new homes this year or I know it would add any anything that was new built in the prior year would then go into that which would just generally cause an increase on its own these are these are homesteaded properties certainly mix within these homesteaded properties would also be single-family homes that would be eligible for the over 65 tax-free so again it's but that's that's the context of that it's not certainly not all single-family residences within within the city's just those homesteaded properties okay do we have the ability to look at existing homes on the ground without individually as opposed to trying to figure out how to how I would word this so that we're not if our new homes stock is coming in at an average of three hundred and twenty five thousand dollars a home when we see this big increase we think everybody's taxes went up that much that we're looking at what the actual increase was on the homes as opposed to the overall average going up because of new homes and we could probably get get pretty close to that about 1800 homesteaded properties we can we can see if the Prezal dish can give us what it was in 2017 2018 back out any of those that had no values and in 17 to try to get you to that that more you know realistic figure if you will we'll certainly write that down and and get that back to you my questions were primarily about the the utilities rate attachment is that is this the the time to ask and then I had another about this so these were these were attachments in our backup that were included in under this so we'll go through the the four the the budgets for the utilities for for the enterprise funds and likely at that time okay you have a specific question you probably go through that we're gonna go through those enterprise funds individually just briefly and then if people have questions at the end of that absolutely okay and same for the and is that true too for the attachment that was about the civil service compensation that's certainly applicable to the general fund they're all within the general funds yeah if you have a question so this would be for right now yes ma'am okay yeah so so I just would just like to say that I would like to see well first of all I like that we 're doing you know market value plus and you know not just market value I think that's essential to to be competitive and to to get the best and I'd like to have a study done or you know and maybe this is just par for the course happens anyway but I would like to be monitored to see in our civil service departments whether that plus you know the extent of how much we increase the plus above above market market rate market value how that is affecting our ability to attract the best of the best you know and I know that there are limitations and how that can be measured but certainly you can see who else is hiring you know at the same time for similar positions in the area what the competition is and then our our our applicant pool there's probably limit to how much we can see about others Apple applicants applicants pools but I would like that to be monitored as much as possible to make sure that that we you know in our in our police and in fire are attracting the best of the best considering that it's a tough market I know at least input for police it's a tough market but I want to make sure that it's working that we're doing enough above market value and this budget does include that market plus 5% that is that is the the recommendation from the city manager I can tell you that that those are ongoing kind of negotiations with the mean confer process the market plus five is looked at based on the the rank of each one's individuals versus just a 3% across the board for for all for all officers and so it is something that's ongoing and I think I think both of those agreements were extended for a year likely I will be part of the ongoing discussions with the with both associations are going forward that's right okay excellent is that does that I guess I should address city manager on that will that be followed up on or maybe this would be for the interim chief of police you know to make sure and again just just to be clear I I strongly believe we need above above market value I'm just thinking is five percent enough and you know when I think that that would be one way to to be able to tell to make sure because it is so competitive out there yeah we what you're describing is actually the process we go through every year we include the Association police command staff as well in that in those discussions of where the market is plus five percent we have 11 or 13 agreed upon comparator cities that we compare ourselves to in essence we're fighting for the same employees if you will and so it really depends on the number of openings we all of us have on an annual basis but I think it's fine that the Association we're actually going to be negotiating the the new meet confer contract here the next year which could could result in some proposed changes that we'll discuss with you but at this point we're not having an issue with attrition over pay benefits seem to be in line I know that there's a couple of issues that we'll be talking to them about later in the year but we definitely are keeping our eye on it as with all public safety you you're aware of the adjustments we just made with the dispatchers for exactly the same reasons and it's something that's on the forefront of our mind and in terms of recruiting and retaining those police personnel so excellent yeah especially as we hire a new chief and as it four or five new much needed yes employees thank you that's great yeah so I'll just add an observation that on slide 13 you know if you're taking into account population growth of 11% and inflation you'd say a sort of par value for spending would over that this period of time would be about 18% so you know if people are curious like is our spending a real spending per capita outstripping growth in population inflation yeah it is so so that there has over this period of time so that it just kind of confirms the you know the impulse we have to kind of hold it you know close to the effective rate you know or stay well below inflation you know because we've certainly had a big run-up so so that was sort of the point of this this slide I was to see you know is our total spending kind of staying in line or not but it's not a question for you Tony I'm happy to let the questions continue around the corner no I don't I got all my questions in advance thanks to staff Todd I appreciate that they were able to get me everything I needed I would echo John's point I asked that very question so I'd like the council at some point I don't know I'll leave it to you mayor I'd like to have that conversation regarding the red light cameras because as it was presented to us before it was this this money this 1 million plus was was built up it was sandbag to pay if we decided to turn it I like that term I don't care I don't care what they say I enjoy that term but we it was set aside to cover us if we decided to terminate the contract early so I'd like the council to have that conversation if we can get a unanimous decision I'd like to then follow that up with hey we're not going to we feel comfortable saying we're not going to terminate it it's next year it it comes up for discussion organically then I'd like to follow that conversation if we have if we're all on the same page there I'd like to then task the city manager with coming back with direction or a suggestion for that and my suggestion was 1 million dollars I think the numbers were as I understood them and I could be absolutely wrong I think it's 1 million six hundred thousand plus in the fun in the fund balance so I I would say the 1 million strip that away and apply that to something leaving the the over half million to sit there and covers and council member I'll go through this but I will mention that I mean you're right it's 1.6 million we are as part of this budget proposing to draw that down to fund two traffic signals and also a speed study that will draw that down so that fund balance will go to about 1.2 million thank you sir I think I think the sales tax revenue is very very conservative and I think that's a good thing so I think there'll be some more money there available in this next year did you have to follow up just a request sure go ahead for the supplemental funding that's unfunded I would like to request or see that the master thoroughfare plan and the mobility master plan be funded if not now very soon because we are spending a lot of money on streets and I mean there's work everywhere and I think I would have thought that that would have been done ahead of all the work we're doing now just so that we know we're following a plan that works for our city so that's just my my request on those yeah and you bring up a great point we've been doing a lot of informal I guess planning with the for instance the dozen quick win projects with the intersection enhancements that sort of thing it's not the way we want to do it and as we get forward to closing out the fiscal year Tony's right the first three supplementals you'll see are those two studies as well as the air truck for the fire department I just wanted to tell vibes you telegraph that a little bit to the council is these studies are very important not only to moving traffic along full-time but also to helping us plan and set the table for the next bond program I'm just gonna go by the pages on the slide because that's where I made my notation so there's there's really not on well but you know what this oh yeah here it is slide four just a question so when we get the certified role and that's what we base our budget preparation on if I 'm correct me if I'm wrong that's basically 95% did they there I know there's some hold back or that they say we're gonna certify 95% but somewhere down the line through all these supplementals there's something could increase or decrease but is that correct that we were basing this on a 95% and they give us a certified role of 95% is that am I understanding that correctly yes and no no yes and no mayor so certainly within those values there are values that are still under ARB review right the value that is that is it that's part of the ARB review is the lesser of the value that the appraisal district assigns or that the property owner says generally speaking is what the property owner says so at the lower value as those values are being decided through the ARB process and and that extends well beyond the certified value process and and could even potentially end up in court as those values are decided there is additional value that gets added to the to the to the surf to the appraisal role again that varies from year to year but generally speaking and we are looking at that as well but generally speaking we end up with a little bit more value that was in the appraisal role as a result of those supplemental changes to those properties that are under ARB review right so I think what would be interesting and this could just come out in an informal staff report is you know takes some years back maybe four or five years and just indicate what the supplemental values like we're getting now supplemental values back from 2017 and 18 budget which what you're saying is there may be an increased value of pick a number if it's an increased value that means we'll be getting additional revenue from somewhere from from the property taxes that weren't necessarily calculated in that budget analysis the same as it's not being calculated in this budget analysis so that's where some of those additional funds are coming from when we do that year up I believe because some may be coming in from the prior year and and things such as that so that is that right or well no we are looking at that mayor you know don't have the information today what I will tell you that the value even even if it is the lower value that goes to the ARB in some cases that value that final value is actually lower than that certainly if it goes into the courts it could be and so so there may be years in which we actually have a reduction in you know from the certified value again but we can certainly look at that history and get back yeah well I think that would be I think that would be helpful to include moving forward in the budget presentations of just historically because it does give an idea of it's it's a more complete picture of yes we're basing it on this value but based upon protests and court proceedings we may have an increase or we have a decrease where we're you know we have less revenue so that's sort of similar to when we have additional sales tax collections that we're not necessarily accounting for in the budget process so I'd like to understand more historically and moving forward what what those numbers sort of look like it may be insignificant the other the other piece that I'll just mention to you there is that recall that some of that value if it's within the tur ds gets captured within the turds sure if but also not all that value additional value if any goes to the general fund is still split between general fund and the general debt service fund well yeah yeah it's just it's additional revenue if it's not if it's either in the turds or it's split between the the O&M and the debt service but it's still if it's an increase additional revenue that we're not really we don't have in this particular budget presentation and that's not a fault that's just the way the system works correct okay all right okay on slide and this is more information on slide 10 I think council mayor pro tem sort of alluded to this on single-family residences now that's not necessarily homestead or I mean that's all of them that's all of them mr. this is showing from the fourth out from from the preliminary appraisal notifications to certified it'd be interesting to know what that is what that change is from year to year in other words what what was that amount the certified component last year for 2017 you know because you see a 2.5 percent change in the protest which means either people aren't protesting that much or and just as a just an FYI and I've said this I've set it down in state legislature assessed values are supposed to represent market value that's that's statutorily they're supposed to represent as close to market value as they can get that's their charge when single-family resid ences they have and you would know this council member if they have access to single-family residential sales data through typically the multiple listing service which represents almost in real-time market value because it's what somebody's willing to sell and what somebody's willing to buy for single-family residential and that's what they use to do wholesale neighborhood assessed values so when people's a pray like council member Briggs had mentioned people are selling their home in your neighborhood and then it raises the values because they have access to that immediately through through that particular service and I think because they're part of that organization that they can pay a fee when you look at the other ones multif amily land commercial there is no such clearinghouse they sort of have to find it from all different kinds of ways some online sites some researching of deed records which those don't always reflect the value so built-in in my opinion is is a is a disproportionate ability to reflect true and accurate market value on residential properties which means for me that they bear a disproportionate share of the assessed value so that's just a commentary that I say every year so I've said it this year I think that's something we need to change to really try to make it more equal let's see okay on the assessed values don't have any thing on that 10-year average sales tax okay let me turn let me find my pages okay on slide 20 for the current request for the internal audit department for the staff auditor administrative assistant and consulting fees we show a revenue cost offset where what's the source of those funds so that is cost being allocated out to all the major funds so since the internal auditor will serve not just the general fund but all the major funds we have a transfer it's a transfer back in to the general fund to offset those costs which means that's being charged in other words it's an offset but yet it's in someone else's budget as an expense which means it has to be accounted for somewhere in hard dollars in a budget correct all right these these costs are a hundred percent in the general fund but then they're offset from transfers that are coming in from the other major funds yeah one of these times we're gonna have a really good workshop on transfer because sometimes there's double counting sometimes it's and I think it gets really confusing for people as they try to understand how all that works but because yeah I mean I see this as an offset but if I'm at the utility fund and I've got to send them ninety three thousand dollars and that's in my budget I'm including that in my need to either raise revenue or in my tax calculation for whatever budget I'm in so it's sometimes it's hard for me to see it as an offset but it is I think I think that's it on those and I think the rest of the ones I have are for because the turz is a separate discussion correct sir all right and I think the other ones are simply for utilities but let me make sure yes and if I and of course if anybody comes up with a question on something we've already covered feel free to ask it because you know we want to you know you're not just this is it this is your only shot that's more for my benefit than probably also well Marin and let me let me also remind the council that from this point forward we will have a work session item at every single one of your council meetings of from now to September 18 as an opportunity if there are additional questions I believe you want to discuss regarding today's proposed budget we can certainly address those we'll use that as a way to follow up through a memo on any questions that that you provide to us that we're not able to answer so okay this is not the only opportunity all right yes so just to kind of clarify will there be a discussion of the earth is someone going to present on the utility rate ordinances today that are included or is that coming later at another session I only asked that because that was included you know as an attachment to this to this particular item there there isn't a specific presentation on those but certainly those are part of your backup there within the context of the budget if there's specific questions regarding those rate ordinances we'll be happy to answer okay yeah so so would this be so then I would like to well I think I think what he's saying is if it's a utility or if it's a utility rate that as those utility budgets like if you have a question on a utility rate the portion in the rate ordinance of utilities or like electric wastewater water you're gonna make a presentation for each one of those budgets so if those questions pertain to those particular utilities is that what you're is that what you 're talking about is the utility rate ordinance yes or the various ordinances that are included okay got it so as the utilities come up that you have a specific question about that particular okay okay excellent thanks for taking the time I want to make sure I wasn't losing no no no no you're gonna thank you we're not going thanks yes go ahead so any other questions on the general fund portion I actually have a question on your question just cuz it's an interesting point you say you make it every year so I really want to understand it you're saying that single-family residences better reflect the real market so what so what is the implication about the other parts that they're overstated or understated well I think either one I'm just simply saying the availability of accurate market data is more available readily available in the residential market yeah then it is in the commercial so naturally let's face it more information means better decision-making so if if you don't have a clearinghouse for that then you don't have a clearinghouse for it yeah that part I got I just I didn't know if you were kind of concluding that therefore they tend to be higher entry or lower entry I think they probably tend if I had to guess I think they probably tend to be lower than probably what is actually reflected in market value now but you will see I mean you can tell because there's a lot of reduction not a free out with a slide that was but the percent of reduction in those areas multifamily and commercial was 21% and 19% or something like that 11% and 19% for land 21% for multifamily residents now part of that is because sometimes the original assessed values are so high yeah that people come in and are able to to get it off but I I've said that not to say necessarily that there needs to be something for commercial but that I think we need to look at what is allowed to be used by the appraisal district if they're I mean because the data they're using is a third is obtained by third parties I mean it's it's a third party data set it's so I just think it puts in my understanding is if you were selling your house through the multiple listing service you cannot opt out to not include the sales price so it's it's a very interesting I'm not arguing against or for that particular service I'm just saying as it's used in in appraisal districts I think that sometimes it puts residences at a disadvantage and you can't argue your appraisal down as readily as a commercial no and plus it's it's more verifiable that date is more which is not necessarily a bad thing but just a level level playing field thanks for taking the time yes and then we'll come over here to councilmember breaks yeah well one of one of the reasons that that you know the single-family residents doesn't have a bigger drop is only about half of the people actually go and protest and you know very likely on commercial property they all go protest yeah yeah no that's certainly part of it absolutely it is a very unfair system as far as a single residents are because it really depends on which person you get yeah yep councilmember breaks I appreciate you bringing up that point and I have I kind of disagree with that a lot of actual property owners or homeowners do go they just don't get a change or that much of a reduction because of the homes that have sold and it's on them to to show that their house has you know broken pipes or you know all sorts of things like that which commercial probably have like you said different qualifications but and also we have less homeowners in our city then so multifamily and commercial as well so that is also in that change there so I just want to echo that sure you bet yeah okay you know the questions about the general fund before we move to capital projects I think it was capital improvements all right thank you mayor so gonna get into the capital improvement projects that we discussed with you you know these are the phase one projects you know so these projects a couple of things that that have happened here since since we last met one council directed us to test to not include the 800,000 for the City Hall design so that's not that's been excluded here in addition for street reconstruction we recently had a discussion with the 2014 bond oversight committee to provide them an update on the various projects if you recall one of those projects that we had even discussed with the council a lot of finance committee was the Riddell realignment Riddell extension project the proposal we made to the committee was to to utilize the the remaining funds that we plantation next year four point nine nine million for that for that project to only utilize about eight hundred thousand of that to complete the design of the Ridd ell project certainly Todd can can give you some additional information as to that particular the reason for that we also proposed to reallocate about two point four million of that of those geo funds to the Hickory Creek West project and then there was a remaining one point six eight million that we made a recommendation we talked to the committee about the proposal on these phase one projects we recommend it to the committee that we reallocate that one point six eight million in geo geo dollars or geo geo bonds to offset this CEO issuance that we're planning to do again pending councils approval today in August and so that one point six eight million reflects geo bonds that we would propose that the committee is recommending approval to reallocate those to street reconstruction and to and therefore reduce the amount of CEOs that we would issue in August all that being said we also heard you know heard you loud and clear about wanting to stay within the one penny increase if you recall at the time back in July I told the council that we that we would probably need about one point seven cent increase the council urged us to go back and take a look at that a little bit closer we did and so this is one of those strategies I'll go I'll fast forward to this slide here again the way that we were able to to get to that one penny was by again removing the eight hundred thousand for the City Hall design by reallocating one point one point six eight million of geo bonds previously for Riddell realignment to street reconstruction well within the purpose of those bonds and then the remaining portion would be to draw down the fund balance to be able to fund those those projects that you that you see here as phase one project will the the current plan at the Council gives us to go ahead today is to come back to you on August 7th with what's called a notice of intent to issue CEOs for these projects state law requires that we publish that and wait 31 days before we before we are able to issue those CEOs after 31 days we would plan to come back to the council on September 11th for approval of a bond ordinance to issue these CEOs we would then turn around and issue them later that week and with delivery of of those proceeds at the end of September again we think that the market is certainly favorable we anticipate but no promises that we would likely be below the four and a half percent rate that I mentioned to you previously but again that's these are the projects the amounts that we're proposing for you a phase one the other project I mentioned is a radio system real replacement that project there are about 1.8 million of that that is will be actual debt that would be borne by the electric water and wastewater funds because they will utilize that system and so it's an allocation that's gone into the calculation as well the the plan would be that on August 7th we would come back to the council with a with a I believe it in a local agreement and a contract to on that particular item the notice of intent also would serve as a reimbursement ordinance and so we'll we'll be we'll be able to identify those funding and and move forward with that project phase two projects I just wanted to kind of recap these these are unfunded projects we had some conversations about these projects in August on July 17th you see that we've moved the phase the design of City Hall here along with the construction again we have a TBD for anything related to the City Hall West Bonnie Bray future phases 13.7 million for a future bomb program as we discussed 4.6 million is associated with the construction and engine of fire station 8 that will certainly be something that will come back to you as part of next year's budget to discuss that part with that that particular project or could potentially roll into a in a future bomb program and in the last would be the minor capital parts capital improvements let's yeah he's this is his last slide and then we'll go around again like we did before so as I mentioned the proposed budget includes a one penny increase to the to the tax rate to 21 cents that would then help to fund these additional projects that we would identify as phase one projects we were able to achieve that as I mentioned through these various sources again you know pending council approval certainly we'd like your feedback regarding the 1.68 million reallocation of geo bonds and that's what I that's what I have for you let's go ahead start over here on the right hand side this time and then then councilmember you're okay no questions if we could go back one slide let me see if that's that's a good one to ask a question on that was an error council member I didn't do that intentionally yeah no worries no it's it's so if we can look at the one the funded one I'm sorry you there we go yes so I'm assuming all these and this may be a city manager question all these are shovel ready hit the ground running and especially May Hill Bridge right I mean that that gives me a little on see just because I want to make sure we have the right number and the timing shakes out to support that number if not what I'm glad to answer any one of those is there one in particular that you're really focusing on yeah no no so I just want to make sure that I mean generally the radio system I'm assuming they have them and they'll sell them to us right so there's there's that becomes a networking issue more may he'll bridge specifically sure it we're comfortable with that number to what degree of certainty so we built into the overall estimate that we brought to council last fall and then have updated since then all the facets that were going to the construction of that project including design which the vast majority is done we'd have to do some updates to the planning and we factored in some contingency as well some other things we're very confident in that number as well as rolling in the real the real estate factor bring gathering all the right away property acquisitions that will need to make the bridge happen that number is our match to North Central Texas Council government who's going to put in another 14 million on top of that to make that project whole so we're very confident that number gets us exactly where we need to be we did build in a factor of safety in there so that we weren't running over construction inflation was taken into account based on delivering the project within the next 24 months when the original estimate was put together knowing that construction of mayhill itself needed to be completed before we got to the bridge okay okay and yeah that was my primary concern there and then unrelated but related so our conversation about the development in that area will there be a significant amount of impact fees if that project proceeds or is it as a time it off to contribute to cost in that area I don't believe that area will be impacted by the the impact fees here that it doesn't I don 't believe it aligns directly to the roadway anyway but I don't think it 'll have any measurable impact okay thank you thank you the only item there that I don't recall having had any kind of you know backgrounding on and I'm just I'm just curious to understand is the police firing range what what is it they were doing what's the general rationale are we replacing something or you know enhancing and just I'll ask Dean Hartley our facility manager to come up here and and kind of give you a little more details on that that was a that was a project that was included on 2014 bond program the initial estimates at the time was about four hundred eighty five thousand dollars since that time we've had a number of conversations with both the bond oversight committee with the council with the audit finance committee there's been somewhat of an expansion because of some additional property and so the the the new estimate on that project is 1.1 million so that's six hundred twenty thousand is to fill in that gap to get that project completed but certainly if you have some decent details on that Dean can walk you through that that helps me right there and so it's a previously approved project with a funding gap because of time having passed on the bond let's see yes I had a question about the CO's being proposed so if we vote yes or give direction yes for these CO's how will that how will that the total compare to CO debt issued last year the year before I don't know if you have those numbers off the top of your head but at least kind of roughly if you could say is this you know would this show a spike a level so so a couple of things if the council gives us direction to proceed today we will come back on on the seventh with a notice of intent council will need to approve that once approved we'll do go through the publication process we have to wait 31 days we'll come back to you on September 11th for approval of the actual bond ordinance that would authorizes to move forward to to actually issue those CO's so there's you know still a number of steps that have to be followed here regarding the CEO issuances certainly over the last couple years we've had a number of projects kind of one-time projects primarily fire stations that we have funded with CEOs generally speaking and what's actually part of the CIP program for next year is vehicle replacements about one about four about four million dollars in a vehicle replacements those are CEOs and about 1.5 million for some facility improvements and generally speaking that's what we would normally see within the CEOs you know barring any with these one-time type of projects 31 million in CEOs is probably not too outside of what we've historically seen in light of some of the projects that we've undertaken over the last number of years okay thanks yeah thank you very much I'd like to see just in it you know future staff report and I realize this is a long range but I'd like to see like ten years back just how much CEO debt newly accrued and newly issued CEO debt just out of curiosity thanks and then I just wanted some more clarification on the proposal to reall ocate their red dell realignment the 1.68 million to street reconstruction I was just wondering if this would go to kind of across-the-board street reconstruction or if there's a specific street reconstruction project or projects that needed those extra funds that this was going to be reallocated to so in the 2014 2012 bonds those programs had roadways that were identified in the street reconstruction program this money that we've asked for in the CEOs the eleven and a half would be to bridge the gap of time that wasn't taken into account on all of those streets the 1.6 that we relocate out of the redell extension project would just help lower that eleven and a half million in CEO so the debt service cost increase you're talking about would hopefully marginalize that a little bit more got it okay that sounds like a smart move so the time that we give direction on these things would be at the very on all these things would be is this is now the time or we'd like to know if you've got any concerns at all with this otherwise we're gonna bring back ordinance next week to get your permission to move forward yeah okay great well that I mean that sounds that sounds good to me that sounds excellent thanks don't go anywhere Todd if you can flip to the next slide on the engineering for bonnie berry future projects yes my understanding is we do have the money already allocated for the design of those yes and this is a shared project with county and RTC to so that before Denton High opens up at their new location we've got sidewalks and roads completed in that area so we don't end up with what we've got out on McKinney where we're scr ambling afterwards - this is the effort that is currently ongoing working with Council of Governments the county tax dot to find a funding solution for phase from the phase of Bonnie Bray scripture all the way up to the north to the University and then continuing on past that to 77 and Luke 288 and has expanded in its scope to that length now in the original 14 bond program it was just to Windsor with the school district going north of Windsor putting a new high school up there the effort was how do we get this funded in such a fashion and in a way that we can go ahead and provide the facilities before the school actually opens so this is our match to what the council of governments would put in they're looking at roughly the overall project cost for the entire corridor would run somewhere between 41 to 46 million and this would be the city's portion of that construction so this is something that we definitely will need to consider in the near future yes sir but we can because we're still in design we can hold off on actual issue absolutely yes sir thank you I'm good for now okay just a couple of comments and questions so mayor pro Tim and maybe this for Todd so on this 13.7 you're saying that that's the portion that we would be required to pay but that there's money coming from other political subdivisions that would provide the rest of the construction and is that premised or based upon that the full project of Bonnie Bray as we originally had designed it that that there that's the assumption that that project is is either in the construction phase or completed and so they're willing to do this because it's provides that mobility and connectivity throughout that whole it's the connectivity issue in general yes there 's an understanding that there's a need generally within the area to provide that north-south connector in the venue of Bonnie Bray so tech stops continuing to make improvements on I-35 a future function that text that will be putting on I-35 is expanding I-35 from University Drive north to Valley View the city of Valley View that's quite a distance they're anticipating going to construction in 2024 so knowing that construction is coming and knowing what kind of backup we already have on I-35 coming on to University Drive and vice versa trying to get from University South having that north-south connection as a relief route to what we know is coming is also another critical factor and that's why the Council of Government has brought in tax dot and the county as a very regional effort to make this connection piece okay so and I just want to make sure that and they're basing that upon the full alignment of Bonnie Bray from our original concept of Windsor all the way to vintage or how far right yeah vintage that that's that and they're just adding on to that and bringing in those funds to make the right the mobility better around the school to avoid what we've had in the past where we put schools and places that didn't have infrastructure okay and part of why it's on this outlook is that originally the thought process for phase five we call phase five of Bonnie Bray is from scripture to University Drive right the construction of that was never funded it was intended for that to get funded in a future debt program because of the schools timing cog has brought this right so into the fold of how do we fund the whole thing so then that's even critical from the standpoint of been if I'm outside of posting just rattle your paper at me so that 's even critical from the standpoint of because that's from scripture north yes sir but from scripture south to 35 e I mean that's also part of that I mean that's part of their sense of okay this is we're not just doing it from scripture to Windsor it's all the way up through our region okay I just wanted to make sure I understood what they're basing this kind of assistance and this partnership with councilmember pro tem you're on RTC do you have any yeah in order to use the RTC funds you have to be going from a state highway to the state highway and that's so it'd be from 35 to 77 is the what they would look at the scope the whole alignment yeah the scope of the project okay and since we are doing we are we've already have funds in place to do up to scripture they're helping us to complete okay gotcha that's helpful thank you okay couple of questions I'm just curious the parks capital improvements on the on the unfunded ones what is that I'll ask Gary packing the park's record you can come up here just because I don't have any notes on that yeah just I'm just curious as to so the 208 Gary pack and director parks integration the 285 thousand dollars are for three projects two are for some pilot enhancement beautification opportunities at Eagle and Elm and Dallas and Teasley at some intersections where there are some right aways that are abandoned and then the additional project is for a parking lot at South Lakes Park if you recall there's a playground just south of London Berry up in the kind of northeast corner of the park but that's been put in for about 20 years there's never been parking there it was assumed that the school would be used for parking residents are using the businesses and that's not sitting sitting very well so we 're trying to alleviate that issue and solve that problem by putting a small parking lot in there for that playground okay all right thank you that 's helpful okay yes okay go ahead okay so so that's kind of interesting the the two spots that you mentioned are kind of entrances to our city right like the the right away area have have you looked at any other funding like through maybe the green ribbon program or other aspects of the of the city that could yeah we are we submitted a green ribbon project this year for phase two of University okay and we'll continue to submit something to that every year with all the roads coming up so we can anticipate that being used for the medians we cannot use 915 16 money for these types of projects because they aren't dedicated parkland so that can't be used so that's our initial request was for this and we're working on a master plan that would identify additional locations in the city for beautification opportunities at those major intersections what about keep didn't beautiful because I know that they can apply for grants through through some of theirs and it would these kind of locations qualify for those type we can reach out to them to see if that's an opportunity okay absolutely thank you well the reason I bring it up is this reminds me of when we were dealing with the cemetery wrought iron fencing issue we really should find a way to do this if it's take it out of the I mean because this is such a small man and I think if you look at what the cement the cemetery work those wrought iron fences and some of the work that's been done I mean that's an interest to the city and then over in southeast didn't it though that those those look fabulous so I would really encourage us to because this is a one-time cost is that yes that I mean that's the total amount there'll be some maintenance associated down the road that we'll have to with growing and all that kind of stuff but this is okay that's just my thought I think that based upon you know those are my thoughts I think we could probably find something and it brings me to my next question go make slide one thank you Gary appreciate that that's helpful because I want to make sure I understand what we're doing here on the yes so what I'm hearing you say is that we are adding one cent to our effective rate which will go directly to the debt service component of our tax tax rate and that one cent or are we using some other additional capacity we already have in the debt service to fund 30 basically 31 and a half million dollars because so it's certainly a combination mayor there's certainly a decrease in the amount of debt service going into next year then when you layer this in certainly we're you know I'm looking at proposing to draw down the fund balance in that fund but about half a million dollars next year to bridge that gap and get us to to that one penny calculation that heard the council kind of wanted us to stay within okay so if if my understanding is correct that one cent will translate into about nine hundred thousand dollars is that that about right give or take million about a million okay and then the debt service for the thirty one point six let's say it's all issued at once I mean about what does that is it a little bit over two million okay so we've got about a million dollar increased capacity in our current debt service fund correct so that in and of itself is picking up about half of this yes about the okay all right so then on the unfunded portion if you go to the next slide if you exclude the top two eight hundred thousand the five hundred or the fifty six million and you just go with the bottom three of about twenty million so that debt service would be about what about one point two one point five so about another cent about another cent penny will probably get you another cent or something like that we okay and we don't need those right now and I think probably Bonnie Bray is gonna be needed soon but we but our fire station if we build it we we can't we can't staff it I don't think with what we've got currently yeah the money in the budget right now will help us with design and then refine costs so this is the best estimate we have right now I would like to get through the design and sure have a couple of you know cost meetings on that to be sure that that four six is enough the parks that could be slid in easily with very little no impact I think is a point you're making yeah yeah well that and plus that on the funded ones that we are you know debt does get paid off and we do have capacity that's why we're able to do that with such a small increases because you know we were going through some debt pay off and we've got an increase of capacity so I just really wanted to make that a little bit more clear I think that's it on yes go ahead just kind of process question I'm I'm assuming that on the unfunded list you know that we'll have some future opportunity to discuss the merits is you know that it's not right we're not like for this budget cycle for this meeting for this yeah yes for this budget cycle well I think this is yeah well I think this is the time to do it yeah and this is the time to do it oh okay because right I guess some of these we've that's a lot you know in a short list there I haven't I've expressed myself on the on the City Hall annex I'm gonna be having voted on these individual items you know that I've laid out my case why I'm not supporting that I think Bonnie Bray is a very kind of complex discussion with with a number of alternative a number of alternative proposals you know what we need to to discuss the merits of the alternatives and I imagine they have different costs associated when you say alternatives which ones are you referring to particularly the treatment of the scripture intersection so you're actually referring to those alternatives are in phase four which is funded for construction and design we do have alternatives to come back to council it's very soon okay phase five is just everything to the north of the universe right but this has future phases so I take this to mean that's all phases but you're saying it's in phase four of capital it's not in this no phase four of Bonnie Bray is already funded it's not in consideration this is just five and six yes sir when you're talking about future phases okay yeah so you know if have we taken or will we be taking some kind of a vote on City Hall annex or has that already happened or I think they've taken that off the table I think that's been removed from the the list I mean we're not we're not even funding the design of it no no that's exactly my point this list the unfunded well we have an opportunity you know yeah is this the opportunity to discuss the unfunded are we gonna get an understanding I think we'll have another opportunity because if if what I'm understanding correct me if I'm wrong the city manager that from council 's discussion last time you reallocated the City Hall design and City Hall construction I mean that's that's not even on the lip because it didn't seem that at this time there's an appetite to move forward necessarily with the construction of a fifty five million dollar new City Hall and so there will be other times when we will address Bonnie Bray future phases of the 13 million the fire station and the parks well I think you said you might be able to work that in yeah I get but it's up here but I don't know his overview is exactly right I think the fire station eight you will definitely see next year once we have harder construction costs we'll make that recommendation to you the parks capital improvements based upon what I'm hearing we'll we'll put that for discussion probably in the next couple months unless the council just wants us to move on now yes so so big you've answered my question which is nothing by being on this list doesn't make anything on here a fata complete they'll come up again you know that 's all I need to know yeah thank you and I really I mean for the parks unless council doesn't give unless council disapproves direction I just assumed try to figure it out now it's done have been a couple months because I think or put it on that list of if when we have additional funding come in from the 2017 18 budget because that's just we can handle it either way they're great projects I've heard from several of you which is why it's on the list with the the Dallas and Teasley treatment in the in the old tree I've heard from several of you about that project so I'm happy to put it on the the next phase when as we close out the fiscal year or if you want us to include it in the debt program it's gonna make little to no impact so that's one but those are three great projects will help beautify the community let me go to yes and then we'll go to the councilman Armitage then councilmember Hudsbeth and then agreeing with you on the parks points but otherwise to the extent that this is sort of a sequential shopping list I'd put fire station aid at the top there I said it why don't I guarantee you that it'll be at the top in a year when I have a hard construction estimate okay we've had I feel like we've had enough projects where we've put we've issued debt for and then we're coming back to you needing a Delta funded so I agree and looking at the park designs I mean those I've seen those intercept Gary and his team outstanding I mean it it is really a cut above what we what I've seen designed here locally and so it'll really be an enhancement for those areas I think it'll be pretty dynamic and then yeah I look forward to the conversation on more over the timing right so I think that's what would would factors into me for City Hall West it's we need to have an educated understanding of what it would cost to then if it makes to it to put it in front of a bond committee I just we've had in the past too many times where we're going on a hunch and and we've gone way down the road on a hunch I mean and I think that is bad business so I think we do need to have that study at some point before we consider bonds whatever that timing is to make sure we're get we're educated on the ask and then that process can work itself out great thank you sir yes so first and I will I agree I agree that the fire needs should be put at the top because because it is a need and it's it's a public safety issue so I'm pleased to hear that it's going to be there so I have a couple questions about the those fire costs so as I understand it the reason why that's being held off on is because mostly because of the estimated cost for the construction is that correct yes yes basically by the time by the time we get a design engineer on board for station aid it's gonna take us two three months to get through that process then it's gonna take another probably six months or so at least to get through the design and space needs of them design so you're already in the next summer so the idea would be to spend this time and over the next year you know that handled making sure that our costs are there and then by the time we get to next year we'll probably be in a position the council's comfortable to to make a recommendation to issue CEOs to get under construction we're still going to be six firefighters short as well so part of part of the strategy this year was to build in three three firefighters to offset largely by overtime savings to in which is still gonna leave us another six that we need to bring on board and we even need another three yes and we'll need another year or two to slide those in otherwise you're almost certainly based our needs putting yourselves into a tax increase situation immediately so if we can if we can sort of gradually do this over the next couple of years while we're planning the station then then building the station I think we can have it staffed up here in the next 24 or 36 months and be able to absorb those costs pretty easily okay so thanks so that makes a lot of sense and my my second question had to do with the engine what so so there's there's not much of a question it seems about the cost of the engine and the timing of the engines just that the that's the fire station is going to house that engine so that's why they fire station house the engine and our next priority is that light and air truck trying to get that funded so then we'll have the engine and personnel ready when station 8 opens okay my question so and a question for and I suppose it would be a question for fire but and it might be a silly question and that is is the engine so say you could get the engine now right you know but say say the engine came before the fire station the new fire station is that not helpful at all in other words is it you know having an engine is there a place for it a way to use it without that fire station or is that an asset is the engine itself an asset that really is only a value and utility after the fire station 8 is built can't that just fire chief you are correct we do not have capacity in our existing stations to house this extra engine so we are gonna need time to some scheduling when the station opens is half delivery of that new engine the same time our fleet has frontline apparatus and we have reserves so we have three to four reserves currently now housed in fire stations so it's really a scheduling timing issue so we would prefer this engine arrives same time this station opens excellent excellent I just I just wanted to be sure thank you and mayor just to clarify too so in our forecast for next year's three firefighters the year after that would be an additional three and the year after that will be additional three for a total of nine firefighters that will that we housed in fire station eight and again that goes to the timing that the chief kind of alluded to here as well well that's not lose sight that we do have medic eight in service if I'm mistaken if I'm not mistaken and that's really the bulk of the calls primarily I mean obviously you want equipment to fight structure fires and I think what I'm hearing is we have that but our biggest need is what we're meeting and that is you know medical emergency response and and so we did work out a partnership with the hospital to house that temporarily so I really appreciate staff and the fire administration to find a creative way through partnerships to get the immediate need met that we have and that is to reduce response times for medical response calls so I appreciate that any other questions on capital improvement funding so the directions let's go ahead and work on the direction for the Roodale reassignment of real CEO's reallocation everybody okay with that okay we're seeing affirmative court of sort of signs of affirmation so yes we'll go ahead and do that we'll just go ahead and take care of the parks thing as well parks everybody okay with the 285 finding a way to get that squared away I'm seeing nods and yes when you mean finding a way you don't mean like increasing the the rate no I know that's not that's because I see the city manager they're kind of like yeah I definitely want to be sure that I'm on same page with her but I think the I think we can eat we can either pay that right now and make an adjustment on fund balance or I can bring it back with the when we close out the fiscal year and just add it as our fourth priority it's it's up to you however you want to handle it or we can add it to the debt package any of those three options are fine it's up to you well I don't I mean if it's gonna be added to a list of priorities I mean this is a very very small amount I think for our cemeteries we did 300 over $300,000 when we were short $300,000 and so if we instead of going through all the machinations of figuring the debts I just say take it out of fund balance and if we need to at the end of when we have the supplementals come in at the end of the 2017-18 if we want to say well we're gonna replenish that and so that'll sort of we just take care of it it's a timing issue but that's what I think yes yeah I agree I prefer that to paying interest on it yeah we'll get it done all right thanks thank you is lunch I thought I heard is lunch here let's go ahead and take a break and we 'll grab us some lunch and come back and we will go through a working lunch welcome back everyone to this meeting of the Dent City Council on Thursday August 2nd 2018 it is 1147 moving through our agenda item work session reports agenda item 1b and we're gonna pick up at special revenue and internal service funds sorry about that tone I'm here to the council Tony point that just let me say that I have not eaten that fast as Marine Corps boot camp I cannot believe that I could still do that so thank you for the time there so this next section we're gonna cover again if you recall you know when I started you know with with the end in mind you know 31 funds you know we have major operating funds and then we have these these special revenue funds internal service funds in many cases with special revenue funds well with revenue funds revenues are restricted to particular issues and so I'm gonna try to go through these at a high level certainly if there's one or two that you have specific questions about we can certainly walk through those we've also provided to you some supplemental requests that have gone into some of these as well so if there's specific questions about those items that are included in those budgets certainly we have the staff here to be able to respond to your questions so the first fund that I'll go through is the traffic safety fund this is also known as the red light camera fund we are proposing to fund two traffic signals from this fund one-time expenditure seven hundred sixty thousand dollars that's for that's for both of them it's not each I wanted to clarify that and we also proposed to fund a citywide speed study for eighty thousand dollars the total expenditures in this fund would be two point one million dollars of course that includes personnel costs that includes payments to the state that are required at fifty percent and so those are the expenses that make up those expenditures it does include a drawdown of the fund balance 364 thousand dollars and we're projecting that the fund balance at the end of nine thirty nineteen would be approximately one point two one point three million dollars again we've already talked a little bit about that particular matter if the program is that continued what happens to to that fund balance are they restricted are they not restricted we can certainly we'll jot that down and visit with the city attorney's office and and get you a response on that that that is the the traffic safety fund certainly if you have some questions about that fun we can kind of go through yeah we'll just go through we'll have questions for each one of these funds as they come up councilmember Melton then councilmember H osebuth thank you so the replacement of the traffic signals can you just tell me what that's about they're replaced being replaced because there's something wrong with them probably not or you're enhancing them in some way you know some additional capacity or capabilities of course pre-tamb would pick now to be out of here so I know the two signals that we're talking about as with any of the signals we have a large majority of signal signals throughout the city that are over 30 years in age based on technology today once we hit the 10-year mark most of our signals are really considered to be out of date just as with any other technological advances that lifespan tends to shrink as the advances become more and more ready to parents so these are two more of those signals that we would bring offline and bring up the current three times back if you wanted to add anything yeah there's two signals around Hickory one is Welch and the other one is Frye and they're really old I think they're more than pretty close to 30 years so technology no longer supported kind of issue yes the major yeah the main concern is as they become old and old equipment failure results in more spending more money on replacing the old equipment with the old style we can never match it communications is a problem with those signals and just the age of the poles and the signal heads thank you and while you're there what is the objective of the citywide speed study the main main concern that we currently have a lot of residents are complaining about speeding concerns people are not really following the posted speed limits and every time there is a question or concern we have to go back and see what exactly should be the posted speed limits and we have not done a speed setting in the last seven almost eight nine years and we have not reconfirmed that you know is the posted speed limit right can we enforce it how can we legally defend it so typically every city does it five years every five years they need to go back and look at because some of the traffic patterns change some of the roadways and corridors expand they're widened and as that happens we need to make sure that we're we have an enforceable speed limit thank you thank you pretend off councilmember Melcers can you remind the council the number of signals that we had that were 30 years or older it seemed to me there's two or three dozen at least yes can I put it and the only reason I bring that up is in the last few years we've drawn down about 1.5 million out of this fund to fund another four replacements but it's an area that unlike roads doesn't get that much attention but you know once you start getting signals that old the equipment they start up they start operating as a safety hazard and I just I just wanted to make sure that we had reiterated and explained why we're looking at pulling down these funds for these signals so currently we have 121 signals entirely in the city and 75 of them are less than 20 years old ideally the age of a traffic signal whole manufacturer warranties for about 20 years so we want to get to a point where we're replacing them every 20 years currently we have a whole lot more over 30 which gets into the area where it becomes a safety hazard not only maintenance wise but also for general public it becomes an issue of how this equipment can fail and what can happen at intersections so currently we are funded for 14 that are already about 30 years old and there are 13 more in line if we can fund them and get them out and then we have another 19 remaining that are still over 20 but under 30 so if you see it's slightly less than half of the signals are above the recommended 20 year mark sure yeah yeah I'm looking for you know reasons to sort of go crazy spending but what is the concept of doing to or what is the way that we expect to do the 13 if it really needs to be done and by when well there's been two strategies first of all we've cleaned out everything that was in the 2012 and 14 bond packages that were allocated as signals it wasn't a ton of money but we empt ied those pots the idea up until and it goes to the question that councilmember Hudson asked earlier in terms of the amount of fund balance that we're carrying in these funds we attended to leave 1.6 million dollars or so in this fund just in case the council ever ended the red light camera program early we that was basically the damages that we owed the contractor so we've drawn that down based upon previous discussions with council the 1.2 we could draw it down again and add another signal there but it's it's one of these areas as we 're looking at fun properly funding our the depreciation of our assets it's not just streets it's also these signals and so these are both on our radar screen and this is an appropriate defensible use of those funds so I just really wanted to you to understand what we're doing and why and that there's still a big number out there to catch up and tie pre-tam I have I have independent research on the speed limits and what needs to be adjusted I'll email you that I 'll get that over to you no I think for me if we could go back to to Tony and his slide please excellent help me understand my thought is in my thinking was kind of what if I heard the city manager right we don't have to end the program to come to an understanding that we're not going to terminate early and not have to pay the fees and then that in my mind that was the purpose for building it up to to a particular level so once we have a clear direction if council can come to a consensus then I think that opens the door to consider those funds versus having the discussion early if we're going to renew the contract when that conversation that's a different conversation then we're not going to terminate early is that your understanding as well yeah my understanding is is yes that would be the case the only caveat that I would put out there is that as long as those funds are used on on eligible projects certainly these are the the other plans that we talked about we don't believe that they are but yeah that would certainly be at the council's pleasure if you wanted to go that direction thank you very much so Mike my questions are more for pre-tum so we did this citywide are talking about the citywide speed study does that include I'm assuming the text dot streets it does not include it's not okay because this is a full system and it seems like they all go together and so that may answer my question on the traffic signals because text dot is responsible for the traffic signals as well or is that city I mean I'm wondering in the list that that you had that includes everyone in our city yes okay yes all right those are all the signals including text on signals okay yes and so signal wise we have an agreement with text out that once they go through a major whitening project the signals handed over to the city for a maintenance maintaining it and some of the signals are pretty old for example the ones on teesley at 35 are really old so that's their city's responsibility to do those unless they come back with a bigger project which happened on 380 and they do the whole thing or 377 or FM 2181 right and so in the ones that are still unfunded that we don't know is there potential in our mobility or thorough fare plan for those wide for those to be widened and maybe text I could we typically coordinate that we coordinate to the point where if there is a signal required on one of the text off facilities we put a temporary signal until text doc comes in two three four years later widens it and puts permanent signal which is much more expensive so we've done that in the past okay and so back to the speed study is it possible for us to include those streets and so we have data to approach text out with when we have a request we can we can do those speed studies typically they like to do their own studies but they can we can talk to them and coordinate because I do know some of the roads that we get complaints on our our text art through our city or text yeah but the yeah this cost may go up if we do it okay all right thank you we can ask the question don't get a cost and if they agree they're agreeable and we exist a simple amendment to the budget oh yeah this is also just about the speeds of the speed study and you had mentioned that other cities I forget if you said most other cities do it every five years or so I didn't know that but that seems to me a good idea considering the way for the city of Denton the way we're growing the fact that we've got these new schools that are coming in so I would like to you know have some future discussion on on doing that you know maybe it wouldn 't have to be city wide every five years but it at least more than when did you say the last time ten almost seven to ten yeah so much has changed and it's gonna keep changing and we know what some of the changes will be but we we can't always tell what the what the impacts are you know and what needs fixing in terms of speeding but especially yeah with all this with the new schools and and and the growth thanks any other questions on the traffic safety fund okay so the next couple funds and I know the mayor has a question so but so this is we have two tours as you know we have terms number one which is a downtown turds that was established back in 2010 there back in 2010 that established the base value of that turds 79 roughly 79.3 million dollars the 2018 value for that entire turds is about 167 million estimated revenue for 2018 19 and this is the incremental value so it's the 167 less the 79 at 95% that the content increment to that to that turds is is stair step down so for the next five years I believe this is year two will be at 95% of the increment goes into this fund and then it'll go to 90 and and so forth so you find $16, 000 approximately is what projected to go into that fund for 18 19 there a couple of items that I wanted to point out in an addition that I added on here the the budget does include for 18 19 the fourth year of this grant to the rail yard for 76 thousand dollars there's also a reimbursement to the general fund for a study that was funded out of the current year for eighty thousand dollars for the downtown muse streets and then finally I'll mention that an item that we did not include that will be coming back to the council for consideration on August 7th approximately still tentative is a discussion about potentially adding the hundred thousand dollar downtown reimbursement grant program that you may recall that that was previously funded out of the downtown reinvestment fund we were contributing a hundred thousand of mixed-barriage taxes to that fund that particular fund the downtown reinvestment fund still exists today we anticipate that over the next the current year by next year that that the remaining fund balance in that fund will be depleted and we'll be able to close out that that particular fund but this this the matter of whether or not the fund those downtown grants out of the tours has not been decided it's not included in this proposed budget but after councils discussion consideration if the direction is to include it will certainly go back and amend the proposed budget and put that in if that's the council's direction and then let me let me jump to this slide that was requested this was an additional slide I've provided a history of appraised values that have gone into this particular fund you can see the base year was 2010 provided what the actual dollar value change has been from that base that has gone into the fund at the increment and what the percent change is so for 1819 the total value the total value of the turds increased by 17 and a half percent but again the incremental value right less the base for each year that was actually a 39.8 percent increase and so again it's that incremental value that has grown the base remains the base every one of these years so mayor I don't know if that answers your question but that's the explanation it does but I just want to sort of point out again that if you go back and look at the project plan originally for the turds most of the increase in value was anticipated to be upon new construction you know these catalyst projects new construction if you go back and look through I think it's only a two or three percent gross in the sort of base value is what the projection was so I just want to say point out again as I have several years that we're way off of that particular project plan because what I'm seeing here and now in on page 48 of the actual proposed annual program of services and when you're there you there sir okay when you see the downtown turds in the middle one there footnote one I would just want to understand that I make sure I understand so we do have the the total incremental increase was 83 261 535 or the 95 percent or something like that that's an increase of 23702 is the new value in addition to the 23702 is that included in the 2370 2 that for that 1.4 million 1.45 million that includes a new value and the reappraised value okay so we had an increase of assessed of existing properties of 1. 5 about 22.2 million dollars of which that's gonna be nominal I'm asking probably still be a 30 or 35 percent increase in in the assessed value so just want to point that out because I think the purpose of the turds originally was to generate several catalyst projects that would change many aspects of the downtown area and that the incremental increase on the existing base was part of it but it wasn't the the majority value increase that was hoped for that the thought was we're gonna get all these catalyst projects all this new construction and it's going to create all this new value in this in the tur ds which would revolutionize downtown downtown has obviously continued to grow and be a really really strong part of our city but had we done nothing if the turds wasn't in place we'd still be getting this almost 30 percent increase because it's it's primarily on property that is that is already there and some of the new construction that's occurred over the years but primarily now do we know what the new value you don't have to tell me now but I'd like to get a breakdown of what that really represents it might be some old projects left over from last year that sort of got their CEOs and their value increased based upon their construction on January 1 so it'd be interesting to see that do you want do you want direction is this the right place for the direction on the downtown reinvestment grant we're gonna come back and look at that in another in another presentation because I think the turds board had a recommendation as well my discussion was that my discussion with economic development is that gone to the turds board they have a recommendation there that will be coming back to the council okay so that's coming back at a different time work session yes okay fair enough we won't we won't consider that then any other questions on this yes councilmember mayor for Tim right on the new value that's strictly ground-up construction is that correct doesn't count if somebody takes an old building and remodels it and what the value I 'm thinking of the there's a building there on Oak Street near the railroad that I don't think that's considered new value because it was because it was already pre-existing okay so I just want to point out and I agree with you for the most part mayor but there is also because of the old structures in downtown that have been revamped that's all showing like it's just an increase in the value but there was actually construction that took place that caused that if we could get a breakdown if there's a way to break that out I mean because I think the data is important I think in the end you'll find that most of it it has been an increase in the assessed value but you're right there's been a lot of buildings several buildings have been remodeled which have increased their value and of course we've lost some value on the role as well I don't know if you can directly you know attribute this to the to the to the TERS you know but possibly possibly even just to declaring that we're going to focus on downtown even without having spent a lot of projects the growth here is like 110 percent in that time period and the growth in the value in general in Denton overall is like about 80 percent as I recall so you know something clearly worked and and if then if the values of those properties is rising it's at large part I think you know you know and arguably or arguably because people want to patronize you know the business is doing better you know I mean people want to live there so their rents are up and that all gets reflected in property values so you know I think you could make you can make that case too yeah I mean my only response to that is if we had spent a lot of money out of the TERS fund to directly impact the downtown area then I would be more inclined to embrace that a little bit more than probably what I do but because we haven't we just now beginning to spend it and this trajectory of the downtown is I mean it's been going on for three or four ever since we actually established the fund once we got past the recession once we got but no I mean it all works together it all works together to create a space there that we we've really had a goal to create absolutely any other questions on did you have no sir I I was going to ask about the grant you know but if that's coming back then we'll set that up later okay so the second TERS is the West Park TERS again you know saw an increase in in the value to that TERS it's the increment on that is a 40% we're projecting about one point excuse me 169,000 that would go into that there is also a contribution from the from the county about $65,000 there's no budgeted expenses in that particular fund so so moving on there's a number of funds here that I'll kind of try to highlight for you and and if a specific question on any one of these be happy to to go through with that go through with you the first one is the TERS and Convention Fund we did meet with the with the HOT committee certainly at the time you know mr. Gregory was still on that committee but I think you know so it was during that time that the proposal was made 3.2 million dollars to be expended out of that that TERS and Convention Fund which is also the the HOT fund the hotel occupancy tax fund that does include a slight drawdown in the fund balance for that fund for a parks related project the estimated fund balance at the end of 930 19 is estimated to be about 1.97 million dollars in that particular fund the next fund in the street the street improvement fund again this is the same number that that you've seen during Danny's presentation 15 million dollars about 10 million of that is what's going into that maintenance component of that particular fund that this includes the the growth in the franchise fee and also the additional six hundred twenty two thousand dollars that that's that's being shifted if you will from from the general fund to to the street improvement fund the next fund is the tree mitigation fund my understanding is that there is a pending meeting with the committee on the environment to discuss components no no I think councilman did you have one on this fund or one but go ahead and yes sir okay if you recall we had a three-year program a three-year plan for the tree mitigation fund that included plantings and parks public properties there was a KDB component and there was also a tree rebate component there was two interim positions for a total of one FTE that was it was included part of that process because of this pending discussion with the committee and the environment subsequently the council this budget only includes the parks component at eight hundred and twenty five thousand dollars the budget does exclude that that one FTE those two interns again all of that is pending discussion with the committee in the environment my understanding is that that's imminent it will be occurring once there's a recommendation from from that committee to the council if we need to make changes to this budget we can we can do that before the budget is adopted so is there no so I just had a comment I just want to say thank you to Hayward whoever else staff whoever falls into that because for a very long time it was the tree fund just sits there right and and I watched it last year as it had a overall decrease in balance because it's getting utilized and that then one addresses a concern and to kind of puts that argument at bay and so to continue to see that trend as I watch it is is really encouraging to kind of see us out and implementing that and taking advantage of those that tool so I appreciate Hayward whoever falls into that making that happen and really helping our community and let me clarify that that eight that eight twenty five includes seven hundred fifty thousand for public tree planning program includes University phase two and four FM 2499 FM 2181 FM 377 Mayhill vintage Bonnie Bray and South Lakes Park West Trail but also including that seventy five thousand for a comprehensive urban forestry plan again you know pending discussions with the with the committee and the environment will certainly if there's need to come back and have those changes to that budget we can certainly do that before adoption okay okay the next one is the recreation fund recreation fund is five point almost five point five million dollars you know if you recall from the departmental presentation we are proposing to move leisure services that was previously funded in the general fund and move it over to the recreation fund that's that is now inclusive of of that change we thought that there would be there was some synergies certainly in doing that some efficiencies and it would help really cost out any of those programs that are being funded through leisure services and the recreation program there is a pending discussion with the parks board on that to kind of walk them through that unless there's any issues there you know we'll certainly brief the council if there is but anyways that's the proposal on the recreation fund next is the police confiscation fund 255,000 out of that fund I 've already talked a little bit with you about the downtown reinvestment fund you know and your mayor unless unless you want me to go through each one of these certainly if there's some one of these funds that that interest to counsel you have questions about I'll be certainly happy to answer that does anybody have any questions on these the funds that he hasn't specifically any and obviously we still will have some other postings for the budget so if they come up over that time they can we can always come back in absolutely any other questions for at least this particular other revenue yes well I'm sorry to back up a little bit on the tours just hit me on the tours to we have some property that's been dedicated to the police department do we take that off the base value or do we adjust that later on and then in tears one I'm not sure but I would think that maybe NTC in T NCTC property that they purchased would have come off the tax rolls again does that how do we adjust the base values on those yeah Julie Glover might have have a response on that Julie Glover economic development so on the NCTC property they don't own it yet it's owned by another entity at some point they will take over ownership but right now it's owned by a private entity so all those will stay on the tax roll until NCTC which is a nonprofit actually buys the property from them and that's I think that's five years down the road they've got a plan in place that they can it's kind of a lease to own kind of thing from them so at that point would we see an adjustment on the base value or would we make an adjustment somewhere else that roll into that other money like the city the county the people that are not paying taxes because they are nonprofit because in CTC would fall in to that school category but I would think at that point it would drop don't know the answer to that Councilman we can let's take a look at that we'll respond to you on that that's the same with the turs - yeah yes okay so any questions on those additional special revenue funds if something pops up we'll just handle it at the next meeting so the next set of project funds are the internal service funds again these are funds that provide services to the to the various funds major funds of the city and so there's allocations that go out transfers that come back into these funds to pay for the services that or the support that's being funded out technology services materials management engineering the one that I will certainly want to bring to the council's attention because it is a change as part of our discussion on the on the water fund customer service has been broken out of the water fund and is now proposed to be an internal service fund as a result of that we we did see some some benefits in the calculation of the of the fund balance for the water fund again we felt that certainly that brings them to you know some better transparency to that operation and shows all the funding sources that are going in to pay for customer service certainly if you have a specific question on any one of these funds be happy to go through that councilmember has a question okay so looking at health insurance I heard you touch on CVS being the transition in pharmacy right that's something like that I would just kind of separate email thing but I'd like to know I'd like to see kind of that that analysis who we considered you know almost like an RFP we send out you know it kind of says who all who all bid where they felt I'd like to kind of see a snapshot of that I think that would be helpful and I'd ask that we as Amazon I think it's Amazon Buffett and Chase kind of form they have some pharmaceutical company they formed and it has shipping components and and so that's just out there I'd love to try to research it and build some sort of knowledge base on if there's anything to our benefit in that kind of grouping but also just kind of like an RFP look at how we did our analysis on the components of the health insurance we can do that sir thank you yes so my question actually was also regarding the health insurance fund does that does that also include the health clinic provider that yes expenses are included yes ma'am yeah so and when is the the contract for the current provider up let me ask Scott Payne to come up here and answer that thank you Tony Scott pain risk manager so we are in the first year finishing up the first year about five-year contract with the provider for our clinic services okay okay thank you we got in our last Friday report or the Friday report before that there was something from Denton Community Health Clinic that and is you know most of you probably remember they they had also come up they were one of the finalists the last time or that the time when this contract was decided so I don't know if we can't consider you know discuss their proposal until after I don't know if it's not realistic to do that until after this contract expires which is why I asked or if if that discussion can be had you know sometime within the next fiscal year well as long as we've got four years left on the contract that we signed so unless the current provider didn 't meet the terms of the contract or we needed to renegotiate for some reason I don't I don't have a contract in front of me but you know we'd need to honor that we we did go through a competitive bidding process and scored the finalists and the council did award the contract so I don't at this point I don't see a reason or a way that we could break the contract oh yeah as long as they're performing yeah sorry I didn't mean it I didn't mean it in terms of breaking the contract but when you know I was thinking more in terms of how early does the discussion about oh I see yeah what comes next we would probably start that that planning that discussion six to twelve months out from the expiry yeah we go out for another RFP process and start that contract at least six months early okay okay thanks any other questions I just just following up on mayor's earlier comment about how transfer prices work and so on would it be correct to say these funds are already reflected in other budgets we've seen as expense expenditures yes sir okay thanks well and and certainly you know we provided for you here the the supplementals additional funding that's gone into into these funds I'll certainly that there's questions that you have you know the staff is here to to go through that but that does include the addition about you know about 12 12 additional FDEs you know primarily inspection services those engineering that previously discussed with you when when they came and did the presentation on their specific budget and these are all in the current proposed budget they're already included yes sir gotcha any questions on this all right saying that all right that takes us to enterprise funds getting a little lighter as it progresses so the first fund that I wanted to talk with you about is the airport fund so the airport fund you know is being treated as an enterprise fund you know we have discussed with you on a number of occasions beginning really last year that particular fund and the long-term health of that fund as a result of where revenues are projected to be for that particular fund primarily gas well revenues we have continued the payment of of debt service on on debt that had already been incur red for the airport out of the general fund or out of general government it's in the debt service fund certainly in that CIP projects that I that I showed to you earlier phase one it does include additional 1.3 million in CEOs to be issued for reconstruction of of those airport roads and this fund also includes some pavement 250,000 and in $20,000 for a contract mowing total expenditures for 1819 out of this fund 1.7 million projected fund balance at the end of 930 19 is about 2.5 million dollars certainly if you have a question about this fund be happy to go through that yes that's my breaks and so what were the the revenues so the expenditures versus the revenues so so we're projecting a drawdown about 195 thousand dollars in 1819 so that would be the that would be the Delta primarily because of the downward trend of anticipated gas world long teams anybody else okay all right so so the first the next fund is the electric fund if you recall we did discuss this particular fund with both the PB and the City Council received some direction and we recently provided to you an informal staff report regarding the deck I believe that was the last request from the last council meeting we had with you we did go back to the to the PUB recently and presented the budget again and we have not presented to them the or asked them for formal approval on the on the electric rates we anticipate to do that here in early August and we'll come back with those to the council so those have now been included in your backup so again what we're proposing here is primarily a a suspension of what is called the transmission cost recovery factor there is no recommended changes to to base rates this budget for 1819 does include proposal to pay off 28.6 million dollars of existing debt that debt is what we call the 2010 scrubbered TMP scrubbered it the plan would be to come back through the first of the audit finance committee and then back to the council sometime in November December timeframe for consideration of an ordinance to to provide notice to call that debt we have to do that as part of our bond covenant requirements and then the plan would be that on February 15th we would wire out these funds to the Bank of New York who would then settle and then that debt would be completely fees and out of the city's books again that was one of the major proposals within this fund this fund also shifts the the reliance on on debt to more of a cash funding basis the debt that we do plan to issue for this fund going forward would be limited to transmission debt so there's a little bit over seven million dollars planned to be issued next year primarily for transmission related projects this fund continues to meet our targets on the debt coverage ratio cognizant of our fund balance policies will continue to to look at this fund as as we go forward the other thing too that I'll mention to you is something that hasn't happened in a very long time is an increased level of transparency to this fund we've had a number of discussions with with the council with the PB in open session and so the breakouts that you see here are certainly more more transparent than they've ever been the information that's provided in the proposed document is certainly much different than what has been provided historically it's certainly we've heard the council's message regarding transparency and we've certainly echoed that here that really concludes my my presentation other than to say that this is again the same budget that we've previously shown you George is certainly here as well if there's any specific questions that you may have we'll go around the horn councilmember breaks so looking at the the rate ordinance the water rates increase in the summer months and I in the in the fees and the in the rates in the summer months and everyone I guess of course myself has gotten an electric bill that has significantly increased in the summer months and so my question is do the rates in the summer for the electric use increase like the water or do they still continue to stay the same all the way through they continue to stay the same okay did you expect a different answer I guess no no I didn't but I just yeah okay good wanted to get that information out there wonderful yeah yeah cuz what you're saying is in the summer the water they put a usage charge on if you the more you use the volume charge whereas it with with electrical it's all static yep got some member I mean okay you yes okay five questions some summer short first can you bring up the redline utility ordinances on the screen that was included in the backup so this is an electric fund question yeah yeah it's an electric yeah sorry it's an electric fun question but that's included in so the electric it's a beginning on page 63 customer I don't believe that we provided the electric ordinance in there well there are a number of ordinances that apply having to do with reconnection you talk about the miscellaneous rate ordinance like yeah it's just it's called I think utilities redlined ordinances it was in our backup I mean I can I I can ask about it without having so I'll try to describe so on page 63 of that document that's under redline yeah that's the one yeah yeah so they're all of the the changes is this in the mis cellaneous rate ordinance this is yeah page 63 so the electric starts around there it's a 72 page document just yeah to go to page 60 yeah okay yes so I had a question oh yeah thanks to make that bigger um yeah so my first question is about on this page now I understand why the redlining was done because that's just this is redundant it's the same after business hours so you don't need to that lead um but I I don't understand why we have people pay so much more for guaranteed same-day service when when we could alternately just have a have that that one fee and and just let them know you know the $23 or the 131 and to just let them know we will try right because it depends on how much you know what the workload is for that day you know why not just let them know we will try to get you on the first day but we can't guarantee that and then because I know that most people you know especially for residences want want same day and it's often and often I have talked to customers you me customers who don't have a lot of money who have said I'm gonna wait till you know to get it turned on till tomorrow because you know saving that much you know $40 could make a big difference to them you know so anyway I would like that to be reconsidered that that was one item number two on page 64 and this is about the reconnection fees that's just the next page why are we and this is a question that I've asked before when I was on the public utility board why are we charged still charging reconnection fees when we have remote metering when it is either universal or almost universal and that there's no actual visit and manual labor involved George moral general manager of DMA so today we have about 60% of our residential customers that have the smart remote connect disconnect meters but not a hundred percent so we had been charging everyone the higher charge the forty six dollars and through conversations we thought well maybe because we're able to put about half of them on remotely perhaps we could look at which is going to reduce our costs sort of in half let's reduce the forty six down to 23 and and spread that out but there's still going to be folks out there that require a trip so that that forty percent we're still going to have to saddle up a truck and send the folks out there to do a physical and we need to recover those costs from someplace so right now we're just the concept is peanut butter that cost over everybody so that those that just were lucky enough to get the remote discuss it and get it for free and then everybody else paid okay got it yeah thank you and and by the way I should have prefaced that by saying thank you for bringing the cost down real why is it not but so now now I understand because the alternate would be to say okay if you have remote metering you don't have to pay and then yeah and then those who do through no fault of their own would have to pay a large amount so you're kind of you're spreading it out yeah yeah so that makes sense to me continue to implement more and more of the remote yeah meters and so over time you know we review that you know every year - yeah we can get further down yeah excellent okay great so yeah thank thank you for doing that and I'm thrilled that that there's a reduction for that reason I've got a just just three more on page 66 the the meter readings really just a practical question are we so these chargers for meter readings there for an actual a worker who comes out to read the meter is that correct none of this is done remotely right and sorry you might want to stay out there for the next George Morrow Dem i general manager again so that answer that is yes so that's our standard trip charge you know we did a full evaluation of that and so we have to make a trip out to the property for a special rate we would charge that if we didn 't have to make a special trip and we could do a remote interrogate we wouldn 't charge that okay great that makes perfect sense that's a simple question thanks and then on page 71 the the late payment charge yeah this is something that so we have a $20 late payment charge on across the board for residential commercial is that correct that's correct so I was looking into what what co-serve does because I've just heard anecd otally people say I'll co-serve charges much less and and what I found and I had a link to this which I can share later is they actually take a percentage so they charge five percent it's five percent of your last bill is your late fee and the reason why I picked co-service not arbitrarily but because residents in Denton who aren't on DME most are on DME but those who aren't you use co-s erve so I see them as kind of our art competition at least in the sense of that's who we're most directly hearing from from our neighbors when people compare bills and I'm always interested to see how can how can DME even though you know on the one hand we we've got the monopoly where we've got the monopoly how can we make people happy you know happier with with our our fees and policies so a $20 fee if I'm correct that would be five percent of like a $400 bill and that's kind of high for especially for multifamily so I'm I would like to propose that we consider changing to a five five percent like co-serve which would of course that that would reduce dramatically the late fees for for residents and the kind of residents for whom that really makes a difference that extra that extra you know $20 a year here or there and you know alternately for the the big you know a really large commercial account and I'm guessing they're probably not late on their bills all that much since we've started they you know they deposit policy but then you would get a more sizable so that also it's just another way to kind of increase or to to reward conservation in an indirect way but anyway I'd like us to consider that and then finally real simple question on page 72 the credit card fee it does that's that 2.7 percent does that strictly cover the cost of cost of service or they you know or is there more in that that's that's first of all that's only on on commercial accounts yeah and that's meant to recover the processing fees that are charged by the credit card companies yes yeah that's what I meant the processing fees yeah great so it just covers that okay thank you so those are my were my questions and and comments and so when we vote this is a procedural question when we when we or when we give direction on this this item are we okaying these redlined ordinances or will they we have a chance to discuss them in future and in other words if I wanted to you know what I have to make a propose a motion to amend to to do that five to five percent so so council member to answer your question any any changes the council you know gives us direction today we'll certainly have to go back and look at the potential revenue impact of any of those changes on you know whichever individual fund and then we can then come back to you and let you know what that revenue impact could be the council will ultimately vote on these rate ordinances individually on September 18th and so at that point our hope is that we would have an ordinance that the council has consensus on that we've assessed what the potential financial impact might be and and then on September 18th there would be a vote at that time okay excellent great excellent so so for now I just like those two issues to be looked into start looking into kind of how that would affect the budget number one you know the question of just having that that one that single lowest rate for for same day because for something like having having the power turned back on most people want it same day and then number two the question of switching to the co-serve policy there five five percent of the last bill and I have a link to that if you want to see if it could just be found by by googling thanks did you have a follow-up to something that was mentioned previously or is it a different question it's just on about what's on this page okay go ahead okay well it's also to ask the council because I remember when we had our discussion about the utility rates before with Tiffany there was discussion about the deposits and things and I thought and this may be different there's the 1% interest rate and I thought that we had talked about just getting rid of that because it was so minuscule like but you can refresh my memory maybe we didn't and is this something different than that councilmember I don't believe there's anything different you know we can certainly go back and look at what the discussion yeah can you do that yeah I know we were taking one thing at a time and the 1% came up and it was like why you know maybe that was just me that wanted to get rid of it but I thought I thought it was okay thank you I would support that too okay I'm gonna skip my questions and comments and then come around the council member Mills if you're just going around you have any questions comments on the electrical enterprise front if we're going to get into the issues that councilmember Armitage raised at some other time yeah yeah yeah okay all right yeah it's too late actually going back to something that you asked mayor sometime ago I think which was I thought we'd asked to see the deck separated out I see the line items are all there right but it's all in one big spreadsheet I thought we wanted to see like kind of a deck P&L and all else you know well that was a part of it there was also some actual physical bifurcation of the funds but that was part of that yes yeah so that would be helpful to see okay councilmember Husspeth yeah yeah and then and George is reminding that you know we did provide that breakout of the deck performer in our discussion there was a request to to relook at the DME forecast without the deck what would happen if we didn't have a deck and we provided that to you probably two Fridays ago so if there's if there's something different for us to come back yeah I just I just remember the request and kind of understood it to be how we wanted to look at it going forward and view it as a one-off it's not a big deal to me hold on councilmember Husspeth let me know go ahead go ahead first no I just want to ask the question joy so it could be now it could be later I have a I have a running objection to straight line comparing stuff to stuff I just because it's never the same right I have two kids I know both their parents and that their parents are the same but they're very different I just you know I mean you can't you can't do that yeah and so I don't know if you want to be heard on the co-surfing now or later but I just want to ask that question I think Tony responded how I would respond is let us take that back and look at it and then sometimes there is a bigger picture some of our pieces might be higher priced you know we have a we have a cost service bundle we're trying to recover some things could be higher some things could be lower so you know we'll look at that piece of it to make sure we're still recovering our costs and maybe we have a couple things that are lower than co-surf okay yep and so just for me I don't like especially don't like percentages in that environment with things vacillate bills vacillate different usages I mean that that to me is if we if we want to lower the fee let's lower the fee but let it be static but just a moving part in that environment to where we're factoring now so the question is how many kilowatts that I use what's the billing period for that what's the percentage applied to that then it's gonna spike in the summer like everything else so now you have your your your daycare expenses go up if you're if you're working your kids go to daycare everyone knows summer costs go through the roof so during the summer when I have the most usage if I have a slip up now I have this five percent applied at that point versus you know other times in a year when there 's less usage it just it to me is a scary thought but I mean I'm happy to look at it to understand what I'm saying no to but I think for me it'd be that that's that's it's just unpredictable and that's concerning okay sure yeah that's just to say so I would completely agree with you except because we're comparing it to that $20 it's a $20 fee so for a customer to have a 20 that $20 be the 5% that would be a $400 electric bill so in most cases now for residents for every single resident whose monthly electric bill is less than $400 they are always paying more significantly more for a late payment charge than they would if it was a 5% does that make sense I understand what you said no yeah no I just disagree yeah we're gonna save this we're gonna save this discussion for when it comes back because we're gonna we'll get we'll be bogged down here councilmember Duff got a couple of questions on the right orders Barry or the forecast I've got a couple of comments well I just make one comment about the same-day connect fee I'm okay with it the way it is because that's a guarantee fee I mean when I call in to have services turned on they'll say when do you want it turned on I'll say well tomorrow but they inevitably will say if we can get to it today we can we can turn it on but if you want it turned on today guaranteed then you pay an extra fee and I don't have an issue with that because that's that 's a choice that people can make because some people may need it turned on that day and are willing to pay that extra fee and some will say well if you get it on fine if not that's okay and a lot of times they get it on that same day so and I'm not paying that extra fee because it's it's it's more so that's that's my comment on that I've got some questions on the on pages they're sort of all spread out so I'm gonna go ahead and start on page 93 of the proposed annual program of services make sure I think I think my question on the other one yeah okay and I can cut this one in all right so let me ask a leading question first so I can understand on page 76 it's the consolidated fund summary page 76 of the book yes sir when I see major funds enterprise funds that column 2018-19 proposed and then you go down the column and you see all those revenues and all those fees that's all inclusive across the the the utility spectrum is that correct that's an aggregate and it includes the airport as well okay all right so that that helps me understand the question all right so we'll go back to page 93 on the electrical fund resources well I'll come back to that I'm scattered so I'm gonna stay focused okay we're going down through this I'm looking at the deck revenues under resources and it shows that the estimate for this year ending September 30th 2018 is 31 million dollars now I believe in our last sort of perform a look at that I think it was estimated at 20 million George Morrill DMA general manager the 31 would have been total revenue and the 20 which you would call correctly was the net after we take into account fuel okay good yeah yes got you fair enough good okay so then so if we go down then corresponding and expenditures we have the Denton Energy Center which is and I'm just gonna go to the proposed instead of dealing with it so the proposed under the Denton Energy 7 is 8 million dollars under expenditures and the revenues are 30 so is that didn't energy city center excuse me eight million dollars is that inclusive of the energy cost and personnel O&M and the variable cost of fuel may report me to the number it's page 93 okay page 93 and it's under expenditures by division right and it says Dent on Energy Center right that would not include the fuel so that would be what the other parts of the is that by see that's over here on the next page 94 which show the fuel okay that is okay deck fuel 14.9 15 million right okay so 15 and 8 is 23 so you're looking at 13 you're looking at a net of about 13 million then that's if you go back to that performer we showed that's exactly the number that was on there and I think where Councilmember Meltzer was going with that is I was asking that because we showing in the out years when the debt service starts that that number gets underwater really quick because none of these include debt service for the deck except for maybe some interest only expense if I'm we've got 4.4 million in 19 and it kicks up to the full number about 17 7 year after right and that's when we that year after is a break even for us roughly for the deck we're still looking at significant revenues from the market so I'm sorry mayor no no go ahead no we see the market mitigating that's just a forecast it could be the market stays up high and that's where that deck started reflipping over and getting into more negative numbers okay and I think it still would be nice if we continued to see moving forward that split out performer because you can figure it out by going through these numbers you can pull it out because now I forgot the interest rate on the 2019 so really instead of 13 it's about 9 or 10 or something like that I think at this point nothing has changed in that performance I suspect Tony will be willing to put that in there so when I look at wholesale power now that's what I would consider and so correct me if I'm wrong purchase power where this is the power that we're using to meet our load this is this is the cost of that correct is that right yes okay so then help me understand the drop from 82 million to 58 million if it's something other than just our renewable contracts coming into play and the lower rates that we may be paying for each megawatt hour based upon that right I think it's mostly that it's a combination of all the moving parts in our portfolio including our load forecast so you've got the you get the wind that's going to be there for a full year and we had the wind only for a couple of months in this fiscal year then you've got a solar coming in toward the end of this calendar year so that will be there for at least you know significant part of next fiscal year and that's it so that will be there and then we'll have you know that you know we 'll have the deck and whatever it produces okay so that's what I'm trying to understand the interplay between let me see if let me look at that again and see if that what play the deck has in that particular number because I don't if we're splitting it out based on its revenue and then based on its expenses because that wholesale power is what we're purchasing well and if you don't have it it'd be good to understand see what's behind that number yeah yeah of that wholesale power right because if that's what we're purchasing we've got contracts for so that's what I'm trying to understand and I think that's what's important to understand is the interface between we have the deck out here which all through the presentations we you know kept it separate we're said we're told that it's it's not really part of that it's sort of a separate that you know we're selling power we're producing power and it's costing it's just we're taking that Delta so right if that's meeting most of our load that 58 million yeah based upon just simply our renewable contracts and in our in our management of those you know if they don't show up we buy a day ahead we do this just trying to understand how if any interplay between the deck and that wholesale purchase power because that is a that's a fort 20 that's a 24 close to a 24 million dollar drop right that's huge yeah thinking out loud I you know the deck would be separate from that you know it's how we have the deck broken out separately so if we go at the top we've got deck revenues and then below we have some categories of deck expenses so I think in addition to that would be the deck net cost so maybe the difference isn't as large as we're contemplating we're reducing our purchase power number that 's true from 82 to 58 but we're also adding some additional costs for our local power plant that probably brings it up into the upper 70s when you say you were adding additional costs you're saying that sort of the del inquent amount that the loss if you will were experiencing on the deck right we 're adding to that or what well this year where the net was 13 as you pointed out right so that additional cost of net of 13 could be added to the 58 I think that's a better number that's 71 million so that would actually be our all- in cost for power supply deck plus everything else well but that 13 is a positive number that's that's a revenue that's a net positive what so what you sort of understand what I'm trying to get and so this is a we got a placeholder for this as well so as we come back we can maybe delve a little bit more into the specifics of that because that's that's about a more than of the total expenditures and if you're including the Denton Energy Center for expenditures by division that's that's over 20% of I'm sorry 10% of those total cost is savings from our purchase power from this this year to what we're projecting to next year so go ahead mayor first of all and it may be just the way this is presented but you know the presentation here is expenditures by division within that divisions included the 28.6 million dollar payoff of bonds and so I think it just may be the way that this is presented so let us go back and and and we can kind of detail that out for you sure no and I'm really just focusing on our purchase power costs that's correct and so so up here on the screen you can see you know where we've included the non-deck purchase power and where it it comes down you know going forward from 67 and a half you know million and 18 to 30.9 million I think that presentation is probably this is probably what what you're gonna be you really looking at instead of this division this presentation by division okay well and so the non-deck purchase power is this the non-deck purchase power is what we bought that was not via the deck it's our it's our well our resources plus the market well if that's the case so maybe correct me if I'm wrong the non-deck purchase powers 30 million 31 million up on that screen and here is 58 million wholesale power so is there something in wholesale power that's being included that's not included in the non-deck purchase power mayor that again that's a presentation by division so there's personnel and other costs that are that go into that number for wholesale power so you're saying for wholesale power it's not just the energy costs it's also just bring it back just break it down for me so I can understand we will marry okay all right but still no matter what it's a huge difference from last year no matter what includes it's a major which I'm gonna probably guess most of it is going to be your purchase power cost because your personnel is gonna be static you know you might have a few other additional people okay so so the non -deck purchase power that's actually the money that we've purchased that's actually the power that we've purchased our solar contracts or wind contracts is 30 is 31 million dollars correct well and even it shows up here the same as on the sheet just different numbers it's it's less than half of last year so I really want to understand how all this is working together because if I'm seeing that our non-deck purchase power is cut more than in half and our rates are the same I need to understand where those additional costs of are that are absorbing that savings and we're not gonna take the time to do it today but if we could maybe figure that out for the next meeting and that that would be helpful because that's really how in the very beginning the whole project was presented was that having the deck would save us a half a billion dollars over 20 years or whatever the debt service was where what I'm seeing here is excluding that and I'm not going back and rehashing that whole thing I'm just wanting to understand the number so that we can understand it and that the public can understand it that the deck is sort of out here doing its thing deck fuel was 15 million dollars is the budget deck debt service 4.5 do we have a deck operate not deck operating reserve where's the deck personnel those would be within the operations and maintenance company we got to split it out we got to split out yeah the deck mayor what we'll do is we can bring back to you just the deck performer that I had included here that will probably make that a little bit clearer well and it will but some of it's still included in these numbers absolutely okay so we'll need to figure out I'm just saying if we were to include just break it out here and operations and maintenance deck is this much everything else is this much we're I mean you've really you've actually got it under the division because you've got Denton Energy Center is 8 million which is your fuel and your person these this this here I would hope would help me understand more of this page but apparently it doesn't because it's presented in a in different format and that's fine so yeah if we can just help me understand the purchase power and those savings and then where those savings are sort of I don't say get eaten up but somehow they're being offset by some other additional expenses we'll do that okay yeah let me let me see if I've got any other questions right quick on this for I think I think those were the I think those were the major ones okay yep I know councilmember Briggs has been patiently waiting then we'll come back for you for clarification okay yeah right so it's just really a statement about something you said so if I recall our conversations it was that the renewable purchase power agreements were so cheap and that they were going to help offset the cost of the deck which would make it I guess not as underwater so that they do go hand-in-hand that way so maybe that's why we're not seeing even though they are so much cheaper the deck fills in and it raises that to make it more expensive and so that if we did not have these cheap renewable purchase contracts that number would stay closer to the 80 or 60 instead of going down so much so that's my recollection of why that number drops yeah and I think that's what we're gonna try to get clarification yeah right and and I would like to see all staff anything separated from energy just to make it clear what we're seeing please thank you yeah that was actually the point I was gonna make that it seems like the the pluses on the non deck side are subsidizing the negative cash flows and that's and that that's why you're not able to suddenly roll it back into rates is because you're subsidizing the negative cash flows of the deck that fair at some point yes but for next year we're looking at a positive 13 million dollar cash flow on the deck and maybe that was one thing I was going to add that came back to me is the 58 million would have been 71 million if we weren't able to credit back 13 million in revenue from the deck so the decks bringing in more than it's expending at least for fiscal year 19 so that that that is one source of the reduction the other sources you know we were we're closing the TMP Gibbons Creek plant right so that's not going to be available for the next fiscal year and that's a large amount of cost that we're also reducing Mary reminded me of that okay so yeah and again I think that goes back to the breakout of the non-deck purchase power in this slide which doesn't sound like an included that sounds like just simply the cost to purchase power non deck purchase power is 40 is basically 31 million dollars and so I just I want to be able to follow the money so to speak I want to be able to break it down and have an understanding and without having to go through a bunch of slides and we don't have all that today remember that prior presentation we gave we had it all broke out by resource right and so what so let it let's pull that back together should just be a few slides and yeah and again I appreciate you bringing that back which we've seen before but on the non-deck purchase power proposed of 31 million dollars I want to know how that number was derived you know what what our contracts are what our load is and what's what comprises that number no problem okay and I just wanted to just just call attention to one more one more factor that is council members Briggs and Meltzer pointed out our wind and solar are are helping to pay for and and minimize the the fiscal fiscal damage or risk of the deck and that is through the difference in revenue that the amount of revenue that we're getting in non-deck revenue is significant and that's something that I hadn't realized at first and until our I think it was the very first of those enterprise consultant presentations where they explained how we're actually going to be selling back some of that solar and wind power and getting significant revenue off of that so I find that just extremely impressive comparing the non- deck revenue to the deck revenue what a great deal it's so much cheaper and it 's making more money yeah you know one quick editorial probably one of the things I learned this summer was the interaction of wind in Texas and our peak low conditions and prices and the wind you probably see the truth stuff the wind tends to disappear during the high price periods in fact yesterday our hundred fifty megawatt Santa Rita wind project was basically nothing during the peak hours and the deck came in to fill that gap so that was kind of an interesting twist I'm sure there'll be other times where it will be different that the wind will be there but what we've seen most of this summer during the last couple of weeks when the prices were high is for some reason in Texas the wind disappears particularly Western wind so so the deck did serve a value for us during those periods of time and I will show you more about that I think we'll come forward with some of the grants graphs and charts that we have for this summer showing you how each of the resources performed and how we met our load with that portfolio and it may support what you're saying it may give you some additional pieces well to that point it's why Enterprise recommended coastal wind because the coastal wind is what is really working at the peak and so I would like to also see while we're looking at how our load performed what coastal wind at the same time was doing just to see if we cross that over what that would have looked like yeah small small editorial so yeah coastal wind has a better profile than Western wind totally we ran some numbers looking at the value of that so you just compare it to the hourly prices and air cot the coastal wind profile and it's better than the Western wind but but the premium you're paying for Western wind what we're finding out nowadays is quite a bit higher than what we're looking at so if I can bring that forward at some point but the coastal wind may not prove up from an economic standpoint even though the profile is better when you run the numbers and the math and I don't think ERC actually ran the math on it it doesn't pay off so those are my comments but we'll bring that back councilmember Duff. Yeah I don't think we really have a full grasp of where everything is going because probably from six months or 12 months from now we're going to know a whole lot more about how deck performs and how all of the renewables are coming in and they're coming in incredibly low I have trouble understanding why they're selling it that low but that's that's definitely to our advantage but we'll know a lot more six months or a year from now that we know now about how this whole thing is going to play out. So I focused a lot on the expense side of this slide and so when you look at the revenue side up here it says non-deck based rate revenues and I'm assuming that means everybody that pays their utility bill it's it's the rate payers it's the revenue from the rate payers is that am I understanding that correctly? It is but when you add that you need to add the deck revenues to that number and that's actually what we got from our customers we wanted to break it out for you you know we're actually getting this revenue from the deck it was just a way to show which part of our revenues could be attributed to the deck and which part is over and above that. I know it's a little complicated Mary but you want it we wanted to break out the deck revenues and that only way we could do that was to separate what would normally be retail rate revenues if you add the two together let's do that for 19 so that we've got 84 million 48 plus 36 and go back to 87 excuse me 1787 go back the year before 84 so that's roughly what we're getting from our retail rate side it's just to kind of show what we what we're actually going to get from the deck and to put it into the format that we were asked to put it into so and I appreciate that that 's that's what I asked for but but they're still coming from but technically well I understand but the rates the deck revenues that revenue if I'm reading this correctly that that revenue is the checks that we receive from ERCOT from selling the electricity on the grid is that am I correct on that? 100% okay so then in a later presentation somebody's gonna have to explain how that because if the non deck based rate revenues if what you're saying is if we didn't have the deck we weren't getting any of that money from ERCOT for selling electricity you're saying that the non deck based rate revenues then would reflect that higher 81 million right as an actual 2007 it says it so I'm gonna need to understand how when I pay my bill and everybody in here pays their bill how is that reflected in it so it's very technical so we're not gonna go into it right now and I apologize for taking so much time on it but I think this is important to understand as we move forward because as we move forward looking at this project at this forecast the picture changes considerably once the debt kicks in and that's I think as we as we get down further down the road right now we've got a lot of extra money being generated by the deck but when we get to the point where we're paying debt and if it's not running any more than what it's running now you know during the hot months and all that there's gonna be even more of a need to have some clarity on how all that plays together so that's the only reason I've taken so much time on trying to at least flush out some of the issues on these particular slides so it's not trying to beat anybody up it's just trying to get a clear understanding of how does this all work together because if we don't understand that we can't ever figure out how we make decisions moving forward right so if you have it in your file that deck pro forma is probably the really the thing to look at those numbers show you what's coming in and what's going out for the deck and it shows the net number and then we tried to modify what it would have been a typical conventional revenue expense worksheet to try to interplay the deck and it's gotten a little complicated my apologies yeah councilmember death yeah one of the things that I see that deck does is it pretty much puts a cap on what we're gonna pay for electricity because we you know if you're having to buy it and you get that you get the spikes we're paying a lot of money okay for electricity and that's gonna happen like when the wind wind dies solar solar should be pretty consistent but it basically is going to limit what we have to pay for it and when the when the when the rates jump up to 500 or a thousand dollars a megawatt hour that adds up in a hurry but what we're doing with deck is we're coming back in with that would you agree with that statement I think that's very insightful those of us in the business we look at the deck as an insurance product essentially it's there for exactly the time frames that I think council member Duff mentioned which is the prices and we saw some three thousand four thousand dollar megawatt-hour prices the deck kept us from having to pay that you know it offset that if we didn't have the deck we will be writing that check for three thousand or four thousand if we didn't have another resource then we could actually operate well I don't I mean that's why we buy in the day ahead market I mean you're talking about if somehow we get caught in a situation where we don't have our resources covered and contracted for that we have to pay that very spot price in real time that day I don't I mean I know that you don't propose no being out there doing that yeah and we do we do try to clear the load in the day ahead but the day head prices may be very reflective of the real time is that's how that's developed right yeah there is you don't get exactly the spikes that you'll have in real time but you you might still see the thousand dollar two thousand we saw some prices like that in the day ahead so so yeah when you try to clear it would clear sure okay so again you asked that question yeah we do look at it as a form of insurance sure some insurance yeah so that I'll leave you with that and we can we can no yeah I just think moving forward as we as we sort of flushed down into this to have an understanding of how all this interplays because it is complicated and and and that doesn't mean it's bad doesn't mean it's bad it just means that okay how do I not I may be the only one that cares about I don't think so but I want to understand you know how it works and so that's the only reason I ask questions well we care and we're watching it our day by day well you 're doing a good job reflected by the the amount that we're paying for power yep yes councilmember Melzer just just to extend the analogy you know of insurance it has a premium too right so we're paying an 18 million dollar a year premium for that rate protection and I suppose at some point you know we could look back and say you know did it pay out or not was there a cheaper form of insurance I guess we could ask that question and what would we have done instead of buying a million dollar policy can we have bought a half million dollar or you know if we had borne the risk what would it have you know what would have looked like yes you know okay Tony any other questions on the electric fund sorry this is the one I had the most questions about if I don't understand something I had need to try to understand it that's just unfortunately my my a lot in life my character defect okay no more questions on electric fund all right thank you appreciate it so mayor we certainly have a number of takeaways we'll we'll bring that back with you hopefully bring some some more clarity or some clarity to that so so the next fund I want to discuss with you is the water fund so if you recall we had brought forward to you and to the PB two options two scenarios one included a decrease of 2% in rates for for the water fund and then one included no no rate changes we you know met with the PB PB made a recommendation for a 2% rate reduction came to council you know surely you express some concerns and reservations and we went back to the PB PB concurred with the council's recommendation of no rate changes for the water fund and so the budget proposed budget includes a water fund that has no rate no base rate changes to it the estimated expenses for this fund are 42 million 42 million projected in and revenues for 2018 for 19 is 50 million point one almost point two and then about 45 million we we are proposing to draw down fund balances slightly certainly staying within you know the policy guidelines that we have currently for this fund we will continue to to look at this fund evaluate this fund there's as we discussed previously there's certainly a project out there that that is within the 10-year horizon and that's an expansion to the Ray Roberts facility it's about a 90 million dollar project we 're certainly cognizant of that working and reviewing that within that context so the proposal today again is no rate changes to the water fund for for 18 19 we currently have no projected rate increases for the five-year plan but again we'll continue to evaluate that fund into the next year and in making adjustments that may be necessary you you do have as part of your backup the rate ordinances for for the water funds those have certainly been in front of the PB and the PB recommends approval of those but certainly any any discussion that the council has questions we're certainly here to respond to those any questions on the water fun yes councilman thank you yeah I just want to make sure I'm understanding this guy so so last year we had two percents in 2021 and 22 and now we're recommending taking those out that's that the right way to read this that's correct and okay and I understand why you're well I don't know if you've already said it I apologize but can you help me understand what why are we looking to be flat in the out years verse because it's projected anyway you know why are we making a point of not having rate increases in out years it's not a factor in this year's budget per se we really look at we really look at the five-year budgets and the utility funds is just as we do with the general funds if if in fact we're you know meeting or exceeding our fund balance targets we've got enough cash on hand to reduce our rel iance on debt and funds revenue capital and we don't need the dollars to know that 's kind of the decision matrix we go through so if when you're seeing zero in the out years it means that we think that we you know through just the normal course of management and the projects can be delivered which is important in both water and waste waters the projects have to get out of the door or else we're presupposing rate increases that aren't needed and that was really the last factor this year that we looked at is there's still a backlog of some projects and these funds that were cleaning out and we're not we're not willing to recommend any needed or any rate increases if the projects can't get completed on time so exactly the same exercise are going through the streets and if I can sure yes go ahead you know I know we've kind of been through this a little bit before but is is there no provision that would make sense to take in the in this five-year time horizon you know that would help prepare us for the 90 million dollars in the next five-year time well I yeah and I guess I gave you the same answer with with this particular fund my guess is by the time we close out this fiscal year are if this weather continues those those revenues are going to be way low and that's the problem with these funds that are so weather dependent is then we're in here next year having a discussion with you about how much to lower the rates so it's much easier to manage the fund balances manage the capital projects as we see them to your point could we start designing the you know the treatment plant a little bit early yeah that's fine we could certainly do that and try to continue honing our costs because right now we've got a 90 million dollar planning number and and so yeah there's ways of getting down and I'll give you an even better example of what just happened in the wastewater fund as we brought on a consultant you know we've got another huge expenditure there 60 or 80 million dollars for the next planned expansion as we bring on a consultant ask them to start looking at value engineering options new technologies that sort of thing now we're getting on the table there might be a possibility to within the existing facility change out some of the equipment in essence at another four or five MGD of capacity so I'm not going to advocate planning for a six or eight million dollar plan expansion if now through engineering planning it's possible to simply re-engineer our current plant and add additional capacity why would I start saving money right now for something that's eight or ten years out and technology is constantly evolving that is the risk in water and wastewater technology I've seen this over and over again with those two particular funds where there's just always a better way a cheaper way to do things retrofitting plants because every city in the in the country is under this exact same planning gun so the five-year horizons by far the best way to take a look at this start start with your you know how well you're kicking projects out the door how well you're managing your debt and are you exceeding your debts be your working capital numbers and as long as all those things are there and those boxes are checked there's no reason with a fund that can be so volatile to be recommending rate increases these just really hurts your credibility when you're back the next year to recommending a rate decrease and and if you want people to buy into the credibility of these funds you've got to be able to put your business plan out there measure it the next year how you did and not see these wild swings the part of your response that I like the most is about figuring out how you know how we can extend the capacity that we currently have and kind of stay on top of the technology so it's not that we're doing nothing right but I just don't want City Council 2028 to say they put their hands in the sand right didn't prepare for us yeah I think the I'm a huge fan of these ongoing engineering assessments and if there's if there's ways and new technologies to lower those burdens and extend out the plant capacities that comes first and then we start planning for those next phases because typically if you're not able to retrofit you're looking at these big so I think we're saying the same thing it's just a matter of when you start the planning exercise and right now I still feel like based on the advice we're getting we're in good shape with this plan so on that that is why I just wanted to go on record again saying that I was not I was in favor of a rate decrease for the water fund and I still advocate that I think that would be best that at least the 2% that pub originally recommended so I just wanted to put that out there and so I do I do have a question about water rates because as they increase in the summer months there was a part in our utility ordinance that if we're in drought stages two or three they go up even more which kind of goes on to the point to the city manager if we continue to have weather like we're having we lose revenue but it looks like we are covered because we continue to increase rates for water used during those stages so I just would like to know a little bit about more about that and are we currently in how far away are we from being in one of those stages let me see if dr. banks come up here afternoon council Kenny bag student manager of utilities we are currently not in any phase of our drought plan so predicting that it is predicted to be a dry summer so far things are looking pretty good if it if we do end up having a real curtailment of rainfall patterns it is a possibility that we could get into the first stage of our drought plan we do have a tendency to try to mirror Dallas so we're always looking to Dallas because we do share lake resources and we want to get a consistent message out to the region about water conservation etc so so far everything's looking good it could change of course if we get an exceptionally dry month for the next couple of months but we are not in stage one and and we are hopeful that we won't enter into stage one during this year okay thank you anything else let's take about a five minute break welcome back to this meeting of the Dent City Council on Thursday August the second 2018 it is 140 and we're moving on to drainage mayor city council Tony pointed director finance we're gonna skip to to drainage just a reminder the drainage operation is part of the wastewater fund so I just want to make that make that clear we'll jump back to to the to the wastewater fund in a minute or the other function the other the rest of the function of wastewater but within the drainage component we we are proposing no increases to the drainage fee we've had a number of discussions about the about this operation again the fee has it remains the same fee that was there when this when that was first implemented so there's no recommended changes there's a number of changes within the operational department that we believe will will certainly help kind of address where where that function has been and some of the projects that are that are being funded just really quickly one of the things that I'd like to point out within this forecast for drainage is that all debt service by 2023 is projected to be to be paid off and as we're paying off that particular expenditure we are shifting to revenue funded capital and so the number of projects that are being proposed to be funded in fiscal year 18 19 most of those if not all will all those will be revenue funded capital projects again these aren't the types of major capital projects major capital projects like the PEC for and the the Hinkle those have been funded through the geo bomb program we did this year recommend to utilize unexpended dollars that were in our in our capital program to to fill the gap on some of those geo funded projects Hinkle the PEC for also some of the downtown drainage projects you know we had a lot of discussions with with with the council with the PUB and we received direction to move forward with that we've made those those changes and have have moved forward the again no no recommended rate changes certainly if you have questions about this operation Todd Estes is here but if there's if there's no questions I'll move on to the the wastewater any questions saying none okay so for the wastewater operating fund again you know just like we did with the with the water fund we did come to the PBA to the council with two recommendations one was for a 2% rate decrease and the other was a 5% rate decrease what we heard from both the PB from the council was a 5% rate decrease and so we've gone back to the PUB the PUB has approved that 5% reduction in rates we also had the PB look at the the rate ordinances we've provided that red line to you as well as part of this package and so the recommend recommendation for next year is to decrease rates by 5% again you know this fund just like on the water fund projects no rate increases over the over the next four years of this plan as we've discussed with you previously there are there is a project out there that we're looking at as same Andrew has alluded to the possibility of making some you know efficiency improvements within the existing facility that may you know delay this project within the time horizon that we had previously projected to eight MGD facility 80 million dollars would be what we'd be looking at what's currently in the plan is to fund the design in 2024 construction in 2027 again but as as we continue to evaluate this fund look at any potential effic iencies of the existing facility that may continue to to push you know to be pushed out you know within that time horizon again the recommendation here is to to decrease rates we've done that all within the context of of our current cost of service study and so it's not a 5% across the board type of reduction so it's based on our cost of service study be happy to answer any questions about them on the forecast the budget certainly you have in your backup the rates as well if there's a question that you may have on any of that on page 62 of the and it's real simple it shows that for 18 19 reserves in the amount of four point seven million dollars will be used to balance the budget is there some capital issue that I'm missing is that's for wastewater fund it's on page 62 yeah correct there so this is the drawdown that we show here that four point seven million right correct again we know we're projecting an increase in the revenue funding capital so so the the that's what that is and so it's for maybe transfers you see that what is that the revenue funding so that's part of that that eight point four me four point seven is part of that we just have the rest of that's the capacity from revenues and expenditures okay all right good okay thank you any other questions nope oh yes I'm sorry go ahead didn't see you sorry yeah just I just want to track back and kind of get it said this is another one where we've got a big we've got a you know sort of a big capacity challenge beyond this time frame and is there a sort of parallel opportunity to innovate look for you know alternative solutions that may cost less than what we think is coming ten years now you know so that we can feel comfortable with you know basically doing the rate decrease yeah that that exercise is actually going on right now in fact we'll have a another contract amendment to you within the next few weeks for that engineering work we're actually looking at possibly what whether it's feasible and to change out the technology in the wastewater treatment plants in order to add that additional capacity so if that happens it could buy us another five to ten years so that amendment will be coming forth to you in August some point but that's exactly the kind of exercises we're going through before we start really planning for another 60 or 80 million dollar project I really appreciate that thank you very much anybody else all right all right so just a couple more slides left in this presentation what this is an exercise that we go through every year so we want to show you for for this average residential customer based on the usage that you see here what that customer would have paid in the current fiscal year based on the current rates that we have it and then what that customer would pay based on the proposed rate changes and changes that we 're making in the utility funds again the solid waste that was a mid-year 12 percent reduction that we did last year so this 27.85 that you see that you see here does not include that but again as that was that that was in the mid-year so we show it here so again that that carries forward into the future so this you know average residential customer assuming that they use you know these types of services and this this tops of usage would see about a nine almost a ten dollar decrease over the over what they would have paid in 2018 but amounts to a three point eight percent decrease overall for for our utilities so the next the next slide that I have here for you is just to go really quick you really quickly with you over our capital improvement program again that a capital improvement program spans our utilities general government as well so for fiscal year 1819 the new funding that's being identified proposed to go into capital improvement program is a little bit over a hundred and four million dollars that includes you know a little bit over 26 million with for the utilities that's broken out seven and a half for electric to fund the transmission only projects about nine point two five for water nine point eight for wastewater I will mention to to the council that in the last couple of years for water and wastewater while we've projected to utilize or to issue CEOs we've not done that and so we'll continue to evaluate that and only issue the bonds that that we actually believe that that will need and so we'll again and we'll continue to evaluate that as we go into the next year we do propose to fund revenue fund about 50 million dollars of that capital program 25 million is associated with general government that's broken out down here for you it includes seven million for street reconstruction six point eight three million for street expansion projects seven million for our seven hundred thousand for drainage it'll be the final tranche of the drainage authorization that we have and for the geo 2014 geo brown program and then four million dollars for four parks finally on the CEOs the CEOs we propose to issue four point three million this is for next year so doesn't include the 33 million that we've already talked about that will issue in August so this is for next year that's for vehicle replacements that's net of the six hundred thousand in cash funding that's included in the general fund and then finally the 1.5 million for various facility improvements that includes roofing HVAC replacement flooring and and those types of projects across the city for city facilities primarily general government facilities so be happy to answer any questions that you may have about the C IP program for 18 19 all right going real quick here right so we do want to go to go through the the FTE counts so for fiscal year 18 19 the proposed budget includes a total of a little bit over 1600 FTEs are full-time equivalent positions again some of those may be part-time positions and maybe three-quarter time positions you have here in front of you where those additional positions are being proposed to be added within each of these major funds within the general fund we are proposing to add thirty six point two positions again like the internal audit position there be an offset a transfer into the general fund to offset the cost but that but those positions do reside within within the general fund those are being offset by reductions in solid waste tree mitigation potentially pending discussions with the council so be happy to answer any of these questions again these were included as part of the list of supplemental packages that that we've already discussed all right and so back to the begin with the end in mind so 18 19 proposed budget by fund a little bit over 1.1 billion dollars the majority of that certainly is within our capital program thirty three point six percent is is reflects projects that are already funded that are already there that we reappropriate on an annual basis when we have unspent dollars whether the bond dollars or or revenue funded dollars we by charter have to reappropriate that on annual basis and then the new funding is about nine point two percent general electric fund makes up seventeen point four percent followed by the general fund at ten point nine percent of that total one point two billion dollars again this this one point two billion one point one billion includes a number of transfers that that go between funds and there's some double counting but again it's just the nature of how we have to appropriate those funds within each of those individual funds any questions just on that last point so basically if you took the internal service funds out of the pie and reallocated it would be more accurate correct I could probably do that and then finally next steps certainly you have an item for individual consideration today we've already talked about it it'll be to set the maximum tax rate to where the proposal is to set it at the at the current tax rate of 63 cents that will then set in motion or publication of notices for public hearings will be scheduling those the public hearings will be on August 14th and September 11th will be for the public hearing on the tax rate September 11th will also have a companion public hearing on the city 's budget and then we'll continue to have budget discussions with you you know from August 7th all the way to August 18th there's a number of items that that we've committed to bring back to you so we'll certainly do that there's a number of funds that are still we may get some additional direction from the committee on the environment and so so again we'll continue to have those discussions with you budget adoption along with budget adoption will be a number of you know rate ordinances you'll also have a an item for adoption or adoption of the of the tax roll also adoption adoption of the tax rate there 'll be the budget adoption ordinance and then the ratification of the budget and just a reminder the budget adoption does require a 60% vote of the council that that was a change I think was last year the year before in state law but that'll be coming back to you September 18th so that concludes my presentation certainly if you have any questions be happy to answer those yeah this is just a small point a suggestion for for future budget presentations in those those miscellaneous categories I understand why they're there right because it just gets unwieldy if the line item is so specific but I would like to see since since miscellaneous can include so much and differs from you know department department maybe you know a little foot note a little asterix and then just kind of at the bottom not a listing of everything but just a for instance so of the subcategories so you know and have an asterix for miscellaneous and then and then say office supplies come you know such and such and even maybe four subcategories and then etc but just to give to give an idea without taking up more you know significant space on the page and a smaller font anyway that that would be helpful to me we had just on that note to you as well because we have the pie chart here with the general fund revenues and there's a large section six point six percent full of service fees and just kind of an idea of what some of those may be okay next time if you phase one phase one thank you Billy but what was the refresh my memory on what the total amount that's built into the current budget that you just presented of what's called the supplemental requests how much did that amount to just for the general fund for the general fund if we just had the same budget we did last time we were increasing it by so mayor the the the net impact of the supplementals for 18 19 3.3 million dollars and some of that includes a one-time funding about 1.8 million and so you know the remainder would be recurring but there are offsets about six hundred forty thousand dollars worth of offsets to the expense to get to that net so the the FTE count on that I guess next to the last slide the total of 36 I thought you said that was in the that was for the general fund but that's that's budget-wide that's budget-wide all the utility funds everybody the general fund is 19.7 19.7 because I was just trying to get an idea because I really I guess I'm struggling with when I hear effective rate at sixty one cents and that's that's our calculation that's not the state's because the state's calculation is way way off at the 68 68 cents but when I see three point four million dollars that we're spending more than what we did last year in essence I mean that's the purpose of the supplemental packages unless unless I'm mistaken on that assumption is that is that yeah it's - it 's to show you the net increase on the base budget from okay yes so if we have about nine hundred thousand dollars or a million dollars for each cent then if we literally just had the base budget and no supplemental then the tax rate would it be about three cents or three and a half cents less okay I'm just trying to understand all that that interplay just as a reminder too I mean that's about a third of the revenues in the general fund certainly sales tax makes up the other third there's increases projected increases revenues right got you lenius you know that's right the sales tax increment yeah I'm associated at all to the property yeah I got you that's that's where I'm that's that 's not right of me to do that okay that's that's good that's good direction one that I missed was just a question on page 88 of the proposed budget it's under franchise fees when I look there's a downward trend the 16 17 actuals 5.6 estimate for this year's 4.9 proposed is 4.3 is that because of our rate decreases but some of them are in utilities that really don't really control like gas private electric cable telephone what do you go ahead there there is there is again each one of these fluctuates so there's some some do decrease like on the cable and and the telephone side but just as a reminder six hundred twenty two thousand dollars is is is coming out of that out of that number and being moved over as a transfer to the to the street improvement fund so you're saying okay so of the 4.9 estimate for this year you're saying this 4.3 has already taken that six hundred thousand out correct okay all right got you got you all right so it's been about equal then about so we're all right the last one is just a clarification on the electric usage of the 26 or 27 million dollars to pay down the TNPA scrubber debt how much 28.6 that was scheduled to be paid off later is that right was that scheduled to be paid off in 2019 it was a 24 it was a 20 it was a 20-year to your bond so it's yeah 2020 I believe okay so correct so so so it's it's it had a 10-year call feature so 2020 2028 2028 yeah so we're paying it off quite a bit early correct all right okay all right ten years into it yep okay thank you that's all I have any other questions cleanup questions well thank you great presentation thanks to staff and all supporting staff for the hard work and and I think the process is much much improved from over you know a few years back so I really appreciate that and very transparent very open about you know what we're doing and how we're trying to do it and with the questions we may have fully confident you'll help us sort of walk through that in subsequent budget presentations so thank you very much all right we're gonna move on to our next agenda item which is receive report and hold discussion and provide staff direction on the design and construction of the new tennis tennis center sure everybody this morning was here for the tennis center presentation maybe they're just getting something drink and they'll be back here shortly yeah okay mayor city council Gary pack and director of parks and recreation I wanted to give you an update on the process that we're going through for our North Lakes tennis center have a couple staff members here and I think Glenn McLean is going to be coming shortly I don't think you had an opportunity to meet him yet he's the staff member that's been doing a lot of our designs that we've been sharing with you so he's put a lot of time and effort into this as well as the rest of our staff some basic project goals replace the existing tennis center that facility is aging about four or five years ago we had the courts resurfaced and we're told by the contract at that point in time that this is just a patch that was going to continually crack and and we have some issues that are that are permanent without major renovation so replace the existing facility with a new up-to-date better equipped facility provide programs for all ages and abilities attract sports tourism we we are pushing hard to bring people into town for whether it's baseball softball or tennis specifically for the tennis center our participation numbers have been going up over the past few years and we want to maintain that competitiveness there's other municipalities in DFW that are expanding their tennis facilities as well so that it's competition and then any way we can simulate economic development through hotel food sales retail food and then enhancement of the city's identity and community pride all right the proposed location is at the corner of Riney and Windsor so here's the location right here here's where Vella is here's the McNatt Animal Center and then here's where our proposed dog park which will be coming to you in a few weeks with with that program so there's a lot going on here over in the north northeast corner of North Lakes Park so a lot of activity planned and then you can see this is our natural area here we do have our trail that kind of goes and meanders through all these parcels here that's that's new so this is definitely connecting all of those assets not only by vehicles but by foot so a little more a little more specific this is the old YMCA building it's a current rugby field that we use that would be moved over to our football fields and then a recreation ball field for practice there's a recycling center here that will be working with the city to relocate that to another location and then again I mentioned trail connectivity we're working with USTA which is United States tennis Association on a number of fronts one they provide us documents that basically says here's the the core infrastructure that you need to have and design into your tennis center so we meet a certain standard and then also that helps us make sure that when they when we ask for tournaments and we apply for those tournaments to be hosted here that they know that they're going to be playing on a court with a certain standard of maintenance and design they also do provide some concept designs which I'll share with you in a second and then some guidance throughout that process and then also some grant funding not not a significant amounts is a bit twenty forty thousand dollars worth of grant funding and go towards the project but any bit helps so this is one of the designs that they provided to us you could see the existing real quick real quick question Councilmember breaks that's question so USTA provides the grant yes is that okay and and so if they were if we were to use their design they would pay us to use our facilities no the grant is for construction okay but so we design our facilities to what they want and they come and bring tournaments here we have to you have to they're competitively bid in regards to getting tournaments that be to host the tournament so we're not guaranteed that if we have this we 'll get the tournaments that's correct we're not guaranteed thank you so this is one of the designs they had here's a the YMCA building parking these are your full size tennis courts it's a more traditional layout where it 's kind of soldiers lined up in a row and then smaller courts similar where you have a t-ball baseball field USTA started about ten years or so ago providing smaller courts for first for younger kids so you can kind of grow up on a court that's more manageable for you so they have more enjoyment they provided us two additional very similar in design features this box this little square out here is an existing restroom on property that would be that would be looking to keep and I'll address that here in a second internally our staff did this design this is it fulfills the original plan was 12 full-size courts with moving the location we need to have a pro shop and then obviously some parking current location by the rec center we compete with the driving range as well as recreation center customers so that can be challenging especially we have a lot going on on weekends but the original plan that was in the CIP program in 2014 was 12 full-size courts more master planning the facility we added two additional full-size courts that's what you kind of see here in yellow and then for ten and ten and under courts which are these four over here I had mentioned there for the younger kids ages 10 and under and then an event structure here that could be a shade structure or a hard structure that we could have a special event or if there's a tournament they can give awards out that type of thing and then revitalizing the YMCA building for the pro shop so just some some keynotes here Glenn is here there's Glenn drew came in Glenn's here so Glenn is using all US open colors from New York within the facility just to kind of tie that together so that's a little bit of a unique twist that we're working through the existing Y MCA building these this is what the facility looks like right now we have some ADA issues that we need to deal with in the restroom and just a remodel there as well as we do have some cracks in the wall so we're going to be looking at some of the foundation issues that we may have related there but other than that no major infrastructure trying to figure out what we could do with the outside of it to look a little bit more modern and beautify that a little bit as well as the southern entrance looks like the back entrance so we're going to put something there because that will be the parking lot for the front door there as well and then this is the existing restroom facility it used to be a concession stand in a very small restroom for men's and women's it doesn't have any does not have any drain in the facility so we're gonna have to figure out how to get water off the floor so that's a bit of an issue but we'd like to have a small restroom out there closer to the court so people could use that instead of running all the way back to the pro shop all the time if if for some reason that's too expensive we may just punt on the restroom and just use it for storage and just put a new roof and some some paint on the building so there is plumbing there yes yeah facility so it's a matter of can you get in there jack hang out connect it in a cost-effective way yes yeah so if that's too expensive then we'll just use it for storage shade structures obviously is pretty important there's not many trees out in this location so we bring in trees in but we're also putting in some shade structures this these shade structures here a little bit more architecturally appealing they would fit a three or four tiered bleacher about 15 feet long just to give you an idea of the size there there's seating in the middle of the courts for both players so if you had doubles on both courts you could accommodate that and then this is that special event location we talked about for awards tea meals whatever that would be does the seating for the players have shade structure yeah this is this is the shade structure with benches underneath it okay so the okay so the funding total of three point six nine five was funded in the 2014 bond program we currently have seven hundred sixty five thousand dollars allocated that's been sold and assuming possibly a spring 2019 sale of the rest of the amount for that we are designing this in-house so we don't have to hire a firm to do that for us so that is the benefit of having going on staff so we're working through this process to get feedback from everybody through this project timeline we've been meeting with focus groups event with the Dennis Denton tennis Association our staff this week we're meeting with USTA again UNT and the DISD sports and then also the public on August 9th we're going to park board on Monday meeting with you obviously and then we 'd circle back around with park board and City Council once we take all that information and make sure it's incorporated into this the best we can and then kind of scrub the numbers to make sure that we're within budget if for some reason it's over budget we'll consider that as well but then we'll also look at phasing opportunities so we can face things in but still kind of work off the master plan so first of all first of all I love tennis it's the one sport that I can almost play and so and I played tennis as a kid and I never I didn't even know that there were kids size yeah these are fairly new yeah so I yeah I wonder I wonder about that you know I feel like I you know benefited from learning on an adult court but but maybe there's all kind of research behind that that I don't know about my main question I had several questions which I can space out of my colleagues have others but my main question is about the cost and and the need or rather the demand the cost and the demand and I wonder what would be the the pros and cons of maybe beginning with say half that number of courts but leaving space so that if there you know just to see what the demand is and if it turns out it's getting booked all the time okay yeah that's not you know and even you know maybe to see different models I mean different different proposals with with even fewer you know so say I don't know three yeah with with three four so that was that was one question and see that what use it said that you'd like to do water on each court is that there there's there'll be water fountains yeah okay yeah close close to each okay excellent because that's public safety issue and backboard well there be if just looks like there's no right now we don't have a backboard plan in that and we 're gonna evaluate that because that has come up in some of the meetings we've had so whether we put it you know we've had two discussions one where it's on its own separate kind of half court or it's integrated into one of the existing courts yeah so there's pluses and minuses for both okay thanks I have a couple other questions but I'll wait to see so but they answer your question about the the amount of tennis courts that we could put into it so we were trying to master plan the entire facility and then work backwards towards the budget so if the budget says we can only build ten courts then that's an option that we can provide to council the original concept in the 2014 bond program was 12 courts and that's kind of was our starting point yeah yeah yeah to me that just seems like such a big amount yeah we have nine right now we have nine at at the existing tennis facility so it's not that much more yeah if you have a couple more questions go ahead you just go ahead okay sure let's see also at wondering and I really don't know the cost of this but I do know that we don't have in city of Denton in an indoor air-conditioned facility and my guess is probably that's just ridiculously expensive but I was wondering if you know if there is a determined need for that and again I'm not proposing in addition to all this this is this has a big big price tag I was just just genuinely wondering if that had been considered and if that would generate a demand and and revenue yeah so the Denton Association asks us about that as well as UNT and if we had planned any covered space you know more or less a shade structure type of type of situation the pros and cons that it one is is more expensive and if you do put it over one bank of courts now similar to this here you you can only have two courts covered so if someone wants to go out and play in the middle of day everybody wants that court so it's a service that we could provide we'd have to evaluate the cost benefit in regards to the costs but it 's something that we'll we'll look at and see if we can't even retrofit courts down the road and just put a cantilever structure over top of it at some point time if we decide to invest in that that option and my other questions had just had to do with the pro shop is the idea that kind of revenue from that it would go revenue would go to parks it would most it well it probably stay within the recreation fund okay okay and I was was there any plan to have free used rackets and balls you know people could donate for kids or you know anyone who just wanted to kind of stroll on up there absolutely we definitely could do that okay excellent yeah I would recommend if this does come to come to fruition and I'm you know I'm not decided y'all have to hear what other people think and you know think about the need for it but I would definitely encourage that because I know that I mean tennis it is one of those sports where you know I mean it's on the one hand all you need is a racket and a ball but if you don 't have that then you can't play and this is a free space for everyone and a lot of people who play tennis will you know get a new racket or get rid of balls when there's still you can still technically play with them but they're not fresh we've got that you sport forget what it's called but facility over there and they sell you know use balls real cheap and you know that would be something I imagine just based on donations that we could provide for for kids and adults who didn't have the equipment and couldn't afford to buy that was all Councilmember breaks so she actually made made me think of something so currently we do we have the nine and one of my first questions is you said something about renovations have we looked at how much that would cost to renovate what we have so the courts that we have right now are not post tension courts it's just a slab of concrete and they're moving and they're cracking so we want to put post tension where there's cables tying the concrete together inside the concrete it's to reduce that that doesn 't say that there can't be cracks but that and then when we've resurfaced them the resurfacing the water is pushing up underneath it and causing damage so that resurfacing isn't lasting so it's it's just lipstick on a pig at this point in time for that okay so what you're saying is there's no way to renovate what we currently have to make it work not to my knowledge I don't think we've had any direct quotes for the cost or completely strip them and redo that but I think it's probably at a point where we have to start over okay and so will there be because I will there be court fees for residents to play or will it be free play that was one thing that I I started thinking about I mean because I know you can walk up now and and use a court for free will that continue to be the case with this new center there would be court fees associated with this and how much would those fees be and would it be all the time Jason Barrow athletics manager for the parks recreation so with the proposal of the new center and we're wanting to control flow to the courts through the building because rogue play is a problem at our current center with people just getting on courts and playing when we're not open and so that's we are wanting to charge to charge the court fees at all times at the new center and that's is a dollar per half hour so we and we do a minimum of two hour per one hour so basically two hours two dollars per person and then there is a non-resident fee of a dollar so it basically for a non-resident they would pay three dollars for an hour and that's what stay we'd have to evaluate but at this point yes that is our proposed schedule of fees I mean we weren't changing what was currently in place if council decided that they wanted to address that it certainly could we'll be coming to you in their future with our proposed fees for for next fiscal year but that's the current fee that we have in place for the tennis center if you want to play at South Lakes or one of the other parks they have the courts you could play for free just drop in also the ones at North Lakes you charge as well yeah that's the existing tennis center that's what we're talking about yes sir so but when you say rogue play it means that people are just walking on and using the courts and and playing yes ma 'am yeah so that's one of the challenges that our staff they have to maintain the building because we only have one attendant at a time in the facility and so they're having to handle people that come in register for classes or answer the phone calls then they also have to go out and you know catch people playing on courts and ask them to come in and to pay while we're while we are open but you are correct when we're not when we don't have the building staffs which we don't have it until three o'clock Monday through Friday we don't have anybody there then people are welcome to come up and use those courts as they are that won't be the case at the center oh see that's what I was thinking maybe up until three o'clock it would be free no we're gonna reevaluate and and actually make it more a full-day facility and have staff there all day so that's one of the things we're going to evaluate with the new center okay yeah it's um about the the pro shop so with the the city you said it would go into the recreation fund but would we hire outside contract to run that or it'd be just be park staff that would run the pro shop we we have outside contractor or tennis instructors they're contracted out we have staff that run the pro shop per se and just man that from a call standpoint people walking in if they want to buy some small things we wouldn't be running a full tennis retail center at this facility not worth trying to compete with Academy which is right down the street so we would have staff office in here and then being here for just customers on a regular basis as well as hosting events programs and so the the three million plus that we saw does not include the the pro shop or does the three million the budget yeah yes that there's a we put five hundred thousand dollars in there for renovation so we don't have numbers on that we met with an engineer yesterday to go through that to kind of get some estimates to see what kind of repairs need to be done the walls that are cracked in regards to the foundation and just one last comment on the smaller courts I don't I don't necessarily am in favor of those my son grew up I mean he played tennis when he was young and the larger courts are marked accordingly and you just use the lines that you need for the age that you are and so I think by playing on a smaller court it it's just it's not yeah so official so that we did we actually have three different sized courts here these ones are for ten and unders then these ones have blue markings on them actually all of them would for kids that are 14 and under and then everybody 15 and over would be playing on the full- size courts you can also even use these smaller ones and that's why we would phase this is you can run these smaller courts perpendicular to those courts if you wanted to have a four-year-old out there playing on a little bit more of a modified location and then we also thought that we could use this for pickleball as well because it's pretty popular how well used or is the current complex of the nine cracked failing you know tennis courts are they still being used so from a tournament standpoint you know our tournaments are getting getting more and more and from a programmatic standpoint we're getting more and more programs on the facility as well so use like half the capacity 110 percent lines lines waiting outside people refuse to use them because of the cracks no I mean we get comments a lot about the conditions of the courts or if we plan to resurface again and at this point we're telling them no because we are hoping to to move to this new facility because there is no there is no plan to resurface as they are how well utilized are we we have programs Monday through Thursday out there and then all Saturday from about 830 to noon we're fully booked and it with us I mean as we are we're already the largest facility so a lot of the high schools come out and use our our course and we rent those out a lot those numbers aren't reflected in our tournament numbers but we do rent them out a lot to for district tournaments and things to the high schools so and then on the term tournament front which seems to be you know at least a big part of the rationale for doing this what are the requirements for success in that do you know is there a certain number of courts you have to have you know what yeah what do you what what parts of this are being done in order to be a venue for tournaments do you have to have 12 courts to be a tournament no I mean the more you have I don't mean to cut you off but the more you have the more you can keep in your in your in your area so last year we hosted the second largest what they call a challenger tournament in the state these these tournaments move from city to city and we had over 600 kids sign up to play in our tournament with our facility only having nine courts so couldn't do 600 kids on two on nine courts over two days so we had to use every court and didn't ISD we had to use courts in crumb we had to use courts in Highland Village as far as Frisco and in order to accommodate that UNT TWU we were we're everywhere spread out to accommodate these kids and so that's that's a big so having more courts will be able to keep more of those kids local which only increases sales inside of the city and then to get these these tournaments I heard you mention it's competitively bid we have to is there a budget or something you know what kind of money do we need in order to get in addition to constructing the courts do we need to be competitive to have more tournaments that's something that our pros do they they have the relationship with the USDA and they go down to Austin and bid for those directly our contracted tennis pros oh it's not a money bid no no okay I misunderstood that and then thank you that clears that up is there I have two more to go done sorry is there a budget then and for the incremental you know maintenance and staffing the the continuous you know new continuous expenses that we'd have over and above construction costs as soon as we figure out exactly what all is going in here then we'll start working backwards to fit into what we're gonna conceptualize okay I'd be good to know what we're committing to in terms of recurring expense at least a rough idea and then lastly I don't understand the connection between the idea of charging for the court and not wanting to have rogue players I mean isn't it just a matter of scheduling the courts I you know I understood it wasn't said exactly but I understood that there's a value in people being able to have free access and the answer was rogue players but the pricing to be in order to get them to stop at the desk but couldn't you just require them to be scheduled but not so so it really depends on how you want to approach it for instance the way we're looking at it right now is that you have to schedule ahead of time you can come in and drop in it's more of a convenience fee to make sure you have a court reserved for you and that helps maintain the facility to a little bit of higher standard that you might get at a park and that there's somebody in the building with restrooms showers if you want to take a shower after you play go back to work so those amenities are there that may not be available at a regular part and then we're also running programs and lessons out of there as well I'll see the floor yeah I first looked at that it looked like pickleball courts and I can tell you at ropes and we started out without any you just playing in the gym and right now we have more pickleball courts and we have tennis courts and I know we hosted a huge pickleball tournament another suggestion on everybody 's got cell phones now so why not do the scheduling I mean you get an app and and everybody can schedule their time on the court well we should be able to do that with our registration software as well anybody else yes and two more questions that came up while listening to others one have you factored in what the increased parking demand would be for a tournament and are the current is the current parking space sufficient to meet that demand combined with you know the demand of just regular users of various aspects of North Lakes Park so we do have approximately 70 spaces located in here but then we also have the recycling center which is behind here which would be an alternative parking space for overflow for those extremely busy tournament days we could also park buses there for the high schools when they come off for tournaments and then the RC parking lot it is gravel but that could be an overflow parking area as well how many buses could that fit we didn't really do a specific but I mean this parking lot over here could put buses you can fit quite a bit in there okay well well adequate okay okay and my other question what's going to be have you considered the relative you know maintenance and operations and construction expenses of grass as opposed to the I forgot what you call it but where you really firm the foundation so it doesn't shift my guess is that just gassed grass it's just too expensive to man to man yeah I mean grass and clay are much more expensive to maintain than a hard court yeah that's yeah so even if the cost might not might be less it's just it's gonna be much more that yeah that makes perfect sense yes yeah okay yeah so is have you done an environmental study or got with engineering on drainage because right now it's pretty much I know there may not be very many trees but it is grass and it does absorb water and I assume that there's going to be quite a bit of runoff when that whole section is is covered so have have you done that in this design we haven 't we haven't yet because just in case we had to modify any type of design that would impact that we had to start over so we will address that though anybody else yes so do you have like a target number of terms if you get everything you're hoping to get today give a target number of tournaments that you think you you can get above what you get today and this is probably outside you can I'm gonna ask it anyway any kind of an idea what the economic impact is of the incremental tournaments would it be for instance enough to pay for the tennis courts or or nowhere close the what I can say is when I worked for the city of Arlington we use a test Texas Trust Fund and there are smaller events not like it's the Super Bowl or the World Series or NBA All-Star Game you can apply for some funding through the Texas Trust Fund where they basically take the incremental sales tax from your economic impact that you submit to them and you get that back now we've had tournaments where we had $30,000 and in sales tax returned to us and we've had we had events where there was a few thousand dollars so probably not in a sense from the sales tax from that specific event to pay for this facility as a whole we'll try to put as many special events and tournaments into the facility as possible there's there's times when you have to balance programming and the residents use as well as the the tournaments you don't want to block them out either so there's a little bit of a give-and-take to figure out where that sweet spot is as you grow in to your facility but we definitely want to make sure that we're competitive in the in the sports tourism venue well it's a crazy to think you might get 20 more events than you get today that might each be worth ten thousand dollars so there might be I mean just for order of magnitude even say two hundred thousand dollars let me go with this fantasy a little further you know two hundred thousand dollars a year and revenue from it that we could conceivably compare to the carry cost for the debt to pay for it is there a case to be made I mean yeah yeah just the wrong way to think about it no no I think I think I think he had a good point when he said you have to balance the interest of the residents with with how do we provide so my hunch is their their goal is to try to do that the best they can and understanding that the more revenue they generate from this the more revenue they'll have for other programs that that aren't necessarily revenue generating so I'm not sure that we've they've gotten into the numbers that specifically but I think philosophically from what I understand in the past discussions we kind of do that now with with baseball tournaments we have we rent fields out for tournaments on the weekends but yet we we try to keep the season for the local association so they can play and then people rent our fields you know just individually so there's a balance there in regards to programmed activities and then you know you more of your select sports yeah yeah we're coming from is that you know on the face of it it looks kind of outsized and like very expensive even though I think a lot of people would appreciate it but you know I'm thinking I might be wrong that's why I'm bringing up that model but maybe it pays for itself well I mean outside of the tournaments I mean I used to play tennis at the one at North Lakes well folks that's a long time ago I mean that's a long time ago and and at that time they were the same number of courts I mean that was 30 something years ago well our population has grown tremendously and the number of our courts has not grown hardly at all so even if we weren't doing tournaments I think I could say I could easily say from a just a recreational perspective for the community that we need more tennis courts because it is more probably our population is tripled by this time I've you know since I've been playing tennis back there in college so I don't I don't think it's oversized I think the question becomes I think what might be that question is okay so the ones that we have currently are so beyond any kind of rational repair from a cost perspective that it's requiring the building of because we 're only increasing the number of courts is it by three three and that's under the current plan if we don't have the budget it may be the same amount or just maybe one or two more yeah there's there's 14 on here right propose and what we committed to was 12 12 yeah right so you'd increase it from 9 to 14 or 9 to 12 you ever take so yeah I I think the capacity is certainly there that could utilize it from a community perspective so I'm not too concerned about it being too big it's it's more like we're tearing down something that is you know is it is it rehab able which I'm hearing it's not and spending three million dollars so my hunch is they're saying it's gonna cost us more to fix those up that we have yeah then it would be to build new ones and have a brand new facility is my understanding I think the courts per capita is a very strong argument and the other the only other unasked question is so far is just is this already in one of the lists that we just that we've seen was this totally new money or this was actually approved by the voters in 2014 so I think I think yeah I think the question is yeah if there's an incremental increase to the budget we'll be back to talk to you but from my perspective we're working within right now and planning to work with them what was proved and authorized directed by the voters that's the game plan right okay modifications information we can just a quick follow-up we can get you the courts per capita that NRP a has out there it's just kind of like a standard it's not written in stone but that's just kind of a rough idea might be interesting for everyone okay Kaylee you have the last word last thing because people are already asking questions about it and I know that you have a public meeting coming up which is good but if somebody asked me what are you doing with the old facility I just heard the mayor say something about tearing it down well that that's that was my comment I haven't heard anything about that so okay yeah so my preference would be that that stay open and be like recreation free for like a park say like in you know Avondale or those courts for the people who cannot schedule a court on their phone or you know pay I would like to see those at least a few of them remain open to the public if possible yeah that was one of the questions and it's been asked in the focus groups we've had you know the the tennis pros and UNT would like to have all of the courts there so we have that large mass but we're rebuilding those courts for a reason and so what if we're gonna keep you know one bank or two of the courts one set of courts on property we have to try to figure out which one's the best one that we could do and kind of manage through the issues that it has and try to mitigate that as much as possible but we are getting rid of them we are rebuilding the courts because of their current condition so we were going into it with the mindset that once those other ones are built these ones are going to be removed because it'll be a maintenance liability for us long term but we could certainly approach that differently do a cost analysis on it yeah okay do okay I didn't say anything and I have a lot to say yes but it could you could you I do want to hear from him on that because that what you said is exactly my concern so we're rebuilding the court we've come on record and said they're in bad shape doesn't that expose us because the point of new or should have known kicks in because we broadcast that these are in bad shape so someone goes and hurts themselves and say on you know on the second of August you proclaim these are in bad shape you built new ones and left them open doesn't that expose us well for it'd be for any use yeah go ahead and go ahead and answer maybe maybe not I mean we do have protection under the Texas tort claims act against those type of claims but but it doesn't look good it's by making those kinds of statements yes and when we say they're in bad shape I mean there's there's cracks in them it impacts play it's not like they are what we would consider dangerous so all right this well I just because if that's the case then we should immediately shut it down and not have you just heard his answer okay well I mean if you're gonna apply that and you're gonna say that then you got to start I mean now I mean yeah if it was a playground and there was broken metal pieces on it we either remove that or shut it down this isn 't the case legitimate question legitimate answer and I think that resolves that in the sense of just from from the standpoint from the attorney's perspective of you just said well no it's it's not it's not nobody's gonna trip on a two -inch rise of it's not even that concrete yeah that's what I'm saying yeah well we could be held liable for lowers people having lower scores that they might otherwise okay did you have any more slides no that was it sir okay what direction do you need here so just to kind of I guess kind of recap the last slide we're gonna be we have our public meeting on August 9th and then we'll take all that information put that together and updated concept plan work the budget and then try to get back to the park board in September if not it may be the October meeting and then shortly after come back to you with here's the feedback we've taken here 's the updated concept plan here's the cost assumptions that we have all right fantastic thank you yeah so no direction per se just sort of an update on where you are in the process what's coming attractions okay thank you all right we have completed our work session we will now convene in a special called meeting to consider the following items and we'll convene at 2 45 on Thursday August 2nd 2018 we've got a couple of items three items for individual consideration one is agenda item one consider approval of a resolution of the City Council the city of Denton Texas placing a proposal on the September 18th 2018 City Council public meeting agenda to adopt a 2018 tax rate that will not exceed the lower of the rollback rate or the effective tax rate mayor City Council Tony point to direct finance I'm not gonna go through this 44 page slide presentation again I just wanted to utilize this particular slide here just to again reiterate that what we're doing here is proposing to set the maximum proposed rate at the current tax rate of 63 7 8 5 6 we will utilize and we're and are required to utilize the state calculated effective rate and rollback rates again we are under the statute not required to to hold the public hearings but again our proposal is in light of the the way that the calculation came out that we still go ahead and do the required publication and that we hold two public hearings on the tax rate we will also hold a public hearing on the budget that is required by both the Charter and also state law so our recommendation again is to set that maximum tax rate it's just simply a ceiling of course our proposed tax rate based on our discussion today was 62 0 4 7 7 so that really concludes my my presentations if you have any questions be happy to answer those any quite yes customer correct me if I'm wrong but the effect of this on the average home is something in the neighborhood of $80 per year more than last year and that this will put us on the road to having most of a rose in good condition most of the time so as all the other things we discussed it I'm I'm prepared to move acceptance okay all right have a motion to accept an ordinance stating that the the ceiling of the tax rate in other words the will not exceed yes we 're not adopting a tax rate we're just saying this will not exceed the point six three seven lower and find a way to do it all right we have a motion in a second all in favor please signify by raising your right hand passes unit or six zero moving on to agenda item B considered option of an ordinance of the city of Denton Texas amending ordinance number 2018 - OO for pres cribing the number of positions in each classification of police officer providing repeal of laws and declaring an effective date thank you mayor chapter 143 of the Texas state statutes requires that the governing body of a municipality that has civil service employees public safety employees adopted an ordinance that lays out the exact number of positions that are in the in the current budget what you will see in this ordinance is this reflects the new structure of the police department showing one clear assistant chief which is one clear number two to the two deputy chiefs and those are the major changes to the to this particular department at this point this new structure was put in place after extensive interviews with the police department staff and their desire to see a clear number two so I've appointed Bobby Smith is our assistant chief and the next item will ask your confirmation appointing him interim chief while we're doing the current chief search okay so the current ordinance we're being asked to approve is required by state law it's required by state law the exact number of civil service positions all right you'll see this again in a few months councilmember Briggs I'll move approval second okay we got a motion and a second for agenda item B all in favor please signify by raising your right hand passage unanimously six zero next item on the agenda consider approval of the resolution confirming the appointment of the city manager by the city by the city manager not appointment of by the city manager Bobby Smith is interim police chief for the city of Denton Police Department and declaring an effective date thank you and in accordance with chapter 143 of the Texas local government code states that the the governing body needs to confirm the appointment of the city manager of the by the city manager of the police chief so I'm asking you to confirm the appointment of Bobby Smith is interim police chief so he can comply with all duties as laid out by chapter 143 during the center room period any yes councilmember Hudson can we have acting chief Smith say hello yeah good afternoon I appreciate the opportunity to be here and I just really I want to thank Todd and and Mario and Brian for having the confidence in me giving me an opportunity to prove myself and so I'm very excited very humbled actually to get this opportunity I've been with the Denton Police Department for almost 24 years now and so this is my department and I'm not going anywhere for any time soon this is my city I've been living here for a long long time and I'm very proud to call Denton my home so very much looking forward to leading the department with my staff that my new executive team that's gonna be Chris Summit and and Frank Padgett and together we're looking forward to doing good things at the Denton Police Department fantastic thank you yes first congratulations I was wondering if if at some point you might be willing to provide a tour of the facilities for City Council so we can see what what the current needs are I'm aware that there are some you know issues that need updating and which we've voted on in the budget you know that way we can see you know see for ourselves and just get to know that the facility better of course doesn't have to be you personally but since since you're the new the new interim chief be a nice way to get to my honor to to take you on a tour anybody who wants to go go ahead so I was gonna make the motion move approval if that's now yes I wish you good luck good service success and safety thank you sir appreciate it so we have a motion do we hear second councilmember Briggs I'm a second all right again congratulations thank you so much everybody who's in favor of this motion please say in power raising your right hand passage unanimously congratulations welcome aboard chief you bet and that brings us to concluding items concluding items yes councilmember Briggs okay so I have a couple during a public art nomination a while back we discovered that there may be a gray area when it comes to conflict with that board voting on certain items and since they have a budget and they make decisions on companies and artists I would like to bring that back we mentioned having a discussion if not adding them to our ordinance our ethics ordinance then having one separate for that for that board on recusals and conflicts of interest it's something I would like to bring back or have a discussion on also school is getting back in session coming up soon and I'd like to request and see that all the crosswalks are marked bright and necessary and be done be repainted if necessary I would also like to have a staff report on the consultants that we've hired and the amount that we've spent on them in 2017 and up to date and then I would like to also share some data that I learned recently about our city there's over 32,000 city of Denton residents that are currently uninsured and there's 10% of our family households with children under 18 fall below the poverty line so just wanted to share some information that I found out that I thought I think is pretty critical to the city thank you councilmember Hussbeth just just briefly I just want to I know it's coming back around I just forget the timing but just an ask can I get it just the email not a Friday report thing just an email on how far out we are on the marketing piece branding piece or advertising for facilities I mean looking at the soccer I mean part of the tennis conversation great to have an opportunity to do some branding and absorb some of that cost so just an email where we are yes councilmember after actually I had a concluding item about concluding items as a category you had mentioned mayor that that we'd be discussing the concluding remarks portion of the meeting at the retreat I did a little looking around and saw in addition to hearing it at Texas Municipal League meeting that what some cities do is they have at the very end of a work session there's a an item that is a specifically an opportunity for council members to to publicly raise new items that they would like to see on an agenda or a future staff report so I'd like to request a staff report on you know what are some ways that that other cities provide an opportunity you know outside of concluding remarks and maybe in addition to concluding remarks for council members elected representatives to you know to publicly propose new new agenda items okay that's probably gonna be covered in the retreat I would suspect okay yeah anybody over here a couple for me again I mentioned it earlier thanks to staff thanks to council when we approve the additional reserve funding for the cemeteries I think it just changes it altogether I've had comments wondering now when will we finish the sides that we didn't do so that's what happens when you make something look really really nice it makes the things that are still there sometimes look not so really really nice but it great job it just looks beautiful for our city and a reminder on August 31st I believe it's at 630 out on the courthouse square courthouse lawn is the international overdose overdose awareness day just want to continue to put that out there to raise awareness of you know the epid emics that we have in our community on addiction and overdose and open use so it 's gonna be the first of its kind I believe in the city so really encourage you to to to come out and support that anything else all right we will adjourn at 255