Dec 04, 2017 City Council on 2017-12-04 11:30 AM

It is 1137 a.m. and I will go ahead and open up the City Council portion of this. We do have a quorum and want to invite Dr. Stream to open the Denton Housing Authority Board meeting. I hereby open the Housing Authority of the City of Denton Board of Commissioners meeting and a special call meeting at the City Hall Conference Room 215 East McKinney in Denton. It is December 4 at 11 a.m. and we are convening in a joint meeting with the Denton City Council and we thank you so much for the invitation. Sure thank you. Excuse me. Well we don't really have a presentation from staff. Basically I asked for this meeting just as some opening remarks and then I want to give Dr. Stream an opportunity to have some opening comments to try to get everybody in the room to talk about some of the things we've been discussing over the last I guess it's last year regarding affordable housing projects here in town that seek tax credit funding through the state either 4% or 9% tax credit program. We've talked about you know what are the interests for the various organizations for the City Council and for the Denton Housing Authority and also as far as applications and what information the City Council would be interested in obtaining as these projects come before us in connection with partnership with the DHA. So look forward to sort of vetting some of that and discussing that and really hope that this is a good candid conversation about the respective interests of both the boards but I will tell you that we both have one thing in common and that is we certainly want to see that we have quality affordable housing development in this city and how we go about doing that just depends on our own separate interests of our organizations and where those overlap and the common ground that we can find in that so I look forward to the discussion and and certainly want it to be one that people feel comfortable with sharing their thoughts and their ideas because unless we do that I think we'll be in the same place that we have been over the last year. So welcome and thank you so much for taking your time out to meet with us here this morning. Well Mr. Mayor and members of the Denton City Council thank you so much for your invitation to this joint meeting. Over the last several months we have sent you some financial information, some minutes of our meeting and some other things you've requested that we're hoping will be helpful as we begin our discussion here. Let me say that all of our commissioners are present today. We have included in the packet for you their names and two or three sentences about each of them. In addition to our commissioners we do have some folks Sherry McDade who is the executive director of the Denton Housing Authority and also we have Ramon Guajardo and Ramon I'm sorry about bollocksing on your last name but he he is help to us in in our consulting about land and development and so forth and then we have Maddie Jones who is our legal counsel represented here and we have them here with the hopes that we will be able to answer well some of the questions you have that the board members may not be exactly clear on. Now the housing authority was founded by a state charter so we weren't we're not an agency of the city of Denton but our state charter does require a couple of things I want to make sure that council knows about it requires that you appoint us as members of this commission and it also requires that we come to the city at the last stages of any of our planning developments after we have met with your city staff, pass through planning and zoning. It requires that we come to you for a final resolution of approval for any tax exempt construction that we wish to make in Denton. The last time we were here we came with a development issue that was split in two one part was approved and the other part not so because of that we do not have a development currently underway that fits the category that I described. We have had it several in the past we own several properties but we currently do not have one and I wanted to make sure the council is clear on that. We we have not had any proposals to bring any to you and so currently as we sit here discussing it together we have no burning fire thing on the front burner that needs to be handled. We would like it to be a general conversation about policies and how we might proceed and be most helpful. So thank you to all of you very much for using this time with us we appreciate it. Sure thank you I appreciate that. Just to sort of give a synopsis and this is just my perspective so if anybody on council sees it differently or anybody on the board certainly feel free to chime in. Just some historical context oh gosh I lose track of time probably about a year or so ago it's about the time the ver anda I believe was either had been approved or was in the process of being approved. There was a discussion about when these type of developments come into the city excuse me would the City Council consider a resolution or a policy that would ask those developers to give the housing authority the first right to look at that project to see if they wanted to partnership with that project. Part of the reason being that when a developer comes before the city and just seeks a resolution of support and they develop the project on their own of course all the development fees and things such as that in there to their benefit and that it was discovered through the consultation with other cities and municipalities and consultants that developers are more than willing to share those development fees with any particular partner in this case IE the Denton Housing Authority which would provide some additional revenue and would have that revenue be placed into the community instead of maybe going somewhere else wherever those developer fees goes to to these organizations and so in the midst of that discussion City Council was just you know part of the discussion was okay you know the properties would be tax exempt which means you know that revenue from those projects would come would not come to the city but in effect some of those it's not a one-to-one transfer but the developer fees would sort of act because the developers if they're not having to pay property taxes let's face it there that's a major expense that they don't have and so in the midst of that conversation City Council just has been just trying to formulate that policy on how do we do that you know what are the consequences of that what are the implications of that how can we maximize that revenue from the developer fees that we are foregoing as a City Council to apply those property taxes to the general expenses of the city which has to do with a variety of interests and in our community and how do we craft a policy that will help us maximize that and so we developed an application I believe that's what is an application for future projects such as this that would help us in that decision-making process as far as information that we would like to have and I believe we sent that to the Housing Authority either to the executive director to you Sherry or and or to the board for some input and so that's where we are you know with the information that we got back so I think in the course of the conversation for me personally that's still is my thrust of my inquiry is as we do this as we move forward on this how you know what's what are those fees and then what are those fees going to be used for as far as in promoting new programs and things such as that so I do have some questions and observations about some of the information but I will hold those because I'm not going to monopolize the floor but that's how I see it from my perspective so anybody that wants to add to that or take away or tell me that I'm crazy feel free to do that but I just wanted to give those opening comments and then open it up to the floor to see if if you know the perspective from either council members or boards or the executive director yes Sherry thank you all very much for working with us and recommending this joint meeting I know we've been talking about it probably for about a year and it's something that the board was interested in doing also I think that we kind of got in a scurry when all the tax credit applications were coming through because of the time of year that it was and so we didn't get a chance to sit down and have this meeting so I appreciate you putting this together and your staff are working with us and getting all the paper that you needed one thing that on my side in my perspective is the business of the housing authority and our role in what we do and part of what we do is try to develop affordable housing and so my the policies which is the last thing that we discussed and talked about when you start writing those type of policies and then to me in my perspective it becomes another layer and so that's where I was coming from in that I'm hoping you're not creating policy to deter or to stop affordable housing from coming to the city but that you really truly want a policy that makes it fair and even and open for everyone I too would like to know what is the city's policy for affordable housing for this city is the council in the city supportive of affordable housing or it 's is it this or is it that so I guess my perspective today and coming here today is hoping to learn what it is that you do want as a city and are you open to affordable housing being built okay yes there's gonna be some people that are watching this live streaming or a TV or maybe we'll tune in later and it might be helpful because they may not look at the backup that we have for you or someone on the board to explain what the mission is and then I have a couple of follow-up questions if you don't mind no sure we do have an official mission I'm sorry I don't have in front of me to read to you but one of them is to provide affordable housing and programs and services for low-income families here in the city we we want to and we're trying to provide some self-sufficiency for those families that we serve but our main is to provide for those families and we use the term affordable housing affordable is there a definition for that I mean how do we define affordable is it are we tying it to the market rate and it's the housing that y'all are providing is somewhat provided at a reduced rate to whatever the market rate is how does that how do we define affordable housing is more along the lines that the rents would be affordable for families that make less than the area of median income in the community and so the state provides funding to incentivize us to build those type of units so the state sets the rents the state decides what the rents will be based on the income of the families that would live there so that's what makes them affordable income is for Denton County or the city of Denton and they look at maybe 60% of that or 50% of that or something like that and then they figure some some percentage of that that your your housing cost ought to be no more than 25 or 33 percent of your income is that how they it's a formula are there any other groups in the city of Denton that are performing the service that y'all perform thanks me okay all right question as far as because Dalton you asked about it so the didn't y'all help me didn't affordable housing corporation is that the name yes okay they do provide affordable housing units for either rental or resale now they don't administer the HUD voucher program which is my understanding is is the lion's share I believe of what the Denton Housing Authority does outside of you have three maybe four now you've got pecan place yes you have heritage oaks and then the Renaissance and then the veranda is coming online in stages but that is is that going to be managed by the Denton Housing Authority is that just an on-site manager that is on site management company chosen by the developer so it'll just be the cash flow sharing and the developer fee sharing is I mean the Denton Housing Authority doesn't have a day-to-day management role in that particular unit do you have a day-to-day management role in those other three like Renaissance heritage oaks and pecan place in pecan place and heritage oaks and Renaissance course is a third party it's a tax credit also and there's a third party management company for that for which one I'm sorry Renaissance sports it's been a long-term relationship with Lincoln property okay all right well you asked a question and that question is what is the city of Denton's position on affordable housing and to be honest I'm surprised that that 's even a question we have certainly approved many projects in the past the ver anda was the most recent we approved one that I think we're looking at the zoning requirement palladium so I think that didn't this I can't speak for the rest of the council but I'll speak for myself we're certainly committed I'm certainly committed to affordable housing I'm also committed to ensuring that if that's requiring city funds that those funds are maximized to meet those needs whatever those needs are so I'm just going to sort of dive right in if you don't mind because we could talk about the application process of the policy but the letter share that you sent at our last meeting you know with that same question posed as you know are we are we committed to affordable housing I really didn't quite know how to respond to that because I thought what we're trying to do is create a policy and an application process whereby we can judge based upon the information given us from to us from a developer and whether they're standalone by themselves or whether they're in partnership with someone how do we make a determination on what if we're going to support that project based upon that information and I think your letter had sort of alluded to that it might be might be redundant to the state application I don't feel that that is going to discourage people from applying because let's face it those programs are very lucrative there are many more applicants for those programs during the year then what there are places to fill or spots to to approve absolutely so when I looked through the information part of what I'm looking for is okay we say we're going to support this project in partnership with the Denton Housing Authority and it's going to increase the Denton Housing Authority's revenue by X dollars whatever though it's different for every development and it will mean that since it's off the tax rolls that that income will not be coming to the city which is okay but for me I want to make sure I have an understanding and a clear understanding of how is that going to be working towards that common goal that both of these bodies have of providing more affordable housing so and I can't find it I hope I can find it in the backup but there's a there was a two-page thing that that was a document that was given to us quite a while back is called Denton Housing Authority fiscal year budget 2016-17 with the income all your income it's just a little single page document and I'll just sort of and then it talks about expenses and net operating income and then on the backside it talks about it splits out now the revenue from the developer fees for Veranda developer fee for you say it Ohala is that how you say oh oh developer fee bond issues and annual income so I just want to deal with those three because the brand has already been done that's we approved that and they're moving people in right now which is good and it's a very well done project I mean I haven't had a chance to tour it I think did you get a chance to true yeah yeah very well class a project is it not yeah fantastic well and I think if I may sure go ahead I just want to make sure I get back to these questions go ahead no no I think the thing that jumped out of me that great project just on its face and then it goes beyond what you see in that the one of the nuggets the the fixtures are all lifetime guarantee so you know going forward you maintain the quality of the residences and don't add cost and so there's a lot of there's a lot of thought and detail sure but into it that became apparent as we were going through the tour so I think there's a lot of neat little nuggets in there well and I know as a little bit familiar with as the conversations were going with the brand and the Housing Authority that it was your board the board that really I think asked for many of those enhancements larger floor plan I think it was just a different make I mean you really they were pattering it off of someone a development down in San Antonio and you asked that you know certain things be done to better fit it with this community and I think I think that's been a resounding success so I really do appreciate appreciate that because it does show I mean that's a it's a prime example of when people hear about affordable housing projects unfortunately there's a stereotype that you know they're they're not going to be either well maintained or it's going to somehow hurt the neighborhood and I think there's you look at that project and that's far from the truth I mean that's that's definitely far from the truth but on the on that little budget sheet it was showing that the developer fees for the O'Halla project developer fee of five hundred sixty six thousand bond issuance four sixty four annual income forty six and I don't I'm not getting into the weeds but this is to help you understand how I'm approaching the issue or the conversation is about one point two million dollars just from that project is what if it had gone through that's what you would have realized as income at least a budgeted income and then the community contributions that were scheduled to be done with that I mean a hundred sixty two thousand and twenty seven thousand was veranda income but I'm that's already there so I'm just dealing with the was about two hundred eighteen thousand sixty three thousand United Way pilot housing assistant program 150 thousand giving hope five thousand and then a reserve for the four hundred fifty thousand dollars for the purchase of Renaissance courts which I think is coming up in nineteen two thousand nineteen or twenties when you get the chance to exercise that right of first refusal is that right okay and so that that added up to about six hundred and sixty thousand dollars yeah six hundred seventy thousand dollars now I'm not sure there's a net income figure here of one thousand nine hundred sixty one dollars I really don't know what that is but so that's a difference of four hundred and seven thousand dollars from the total developer fees budgeted for Ohala and then what has been scheduled what has been presented as well this is what we'll do with some of those fees now for the budget of 1617 because that didn't happen does that mean that y'all had a shortfall in the budget for 2016 and 17 and the only reason I say that is because my goal is if we're going to be providing working in partnership with the Denton Housing Authority to bring these developers on board to build affordable units and we're foregoing tax revenue that will not only help us with funding community services and home grants and and repairing people's homes and providing additional kind of social services and just making sure people are safe with police protection and fire protection so we're not going to be realizing that but we are sort of saying but that money is going to a worthy cost and that is to specifically and directly impact affordable housing here in the community so my goal would be as much of that additional revenue that is coming in would be used for programs and things that right now are not currently being done in other words whatever that may be and so when I look at some of the budgets and when I look at what's been stated as what would those monies be used for it seems that there's a little bit of an imbalance and that that's just where I'm coming from that doesn't mean you have to agree and that's why I want to have a candid conversation I mean that's I'm not trying to start anything I'm just trying to express sort of my thoughts so when I look at the 2016-17 budget that was provided if everything had gone as planned it showed that there was a net income of six hundred seventy thousand dollars for the 16 17 budget but and that includes the ohala developer fees and the and the like of about a million dollars so when I'm back that million dollars out and I'm just going on the information I have so if there's some other supplement or something that's this isn't this is just going with the numbers that I have so when I'm back out that that did not occur it leaves about a full hundred seventy thousand dollar hole at least in the budget as it was written that doesn't mean that you had a full hundred seventy thousand dollar hole so that's what my thoughts are if we're and this year for veranda I believe the budget is for a seven hundred and forty three thousand plus a twenty seven thousand dollar payment apparently they're paying the other half of their developer fee portion portion of it yeah the seven hundred forty three thousand and the set twenty seven thousand of the fee and so that this current budget of 2017 and 18 shows a net income of thirty six thousand five hundred sixty two dollars including that seven hundred and seventy thousand dollar revenue from veranda and so if that wasn't there that's about a seven hundred thousand dollar hole quote unquote in the budget and I know you budgeted for things that and so I guess that do those partnerships since you're not managing the veranda since that's the one on the ground that's the only one I know to go by since you're not managing it what expenses are really associated with the housing authority in having that partnership at least in this budget year what are you are you having to add staff or specific to the veranda veranda only yes there we pay a management fee to a management company to manage it and it comes out of the operation of the veranda the housing authority earns developer fees and some cash flow from doing the project so that's the income that's what's reflected in there not operating income from the veranda so then maybe I'm so when I see those developer fees I'm not know how how is to categorize it to me then there's not really any offset ting I mean the the management fees come out of the operations out of the cash flow the rental payments and things such as that so these payments of the developer fee in the veranda bond issuer fee of seven hundred seventy thousand that's simply what has been negotiated between veranda and the housing authority as the share in other developer fees as I don't say it's gravy but it's you're not having any offsetting expenses to recognize that revenue it's not like you're getting paid a management fee but you also have to hire management company and this is just sort of money that's coming in that's unencumbered with some type of operational offset in order to acquire that is that is that my understanding of that okay but when you're comparing the ohala situation which is as it at this time a no-go with the veranda situation I mean it's like comparing apples and oranges really our revenue is driven by the fact that we serve people in our community and we bring in two years ago as an example we were bringing in about 13 million dollars a year in federal funding right today our budget is more like 11 million right so you can see how we continually try to adjust and the fees we get off of that or administrative fees that were paid for by the government to administer that money and so it's it's an ongoing it's a it's a moving target for us continually because they say you can now serve X amount of people sure because the sequestration that we had they lowered that and lowered that and lowered that we've been continually trying to hit those goals that they have set for us in serving people in our community without having to remove people we've done it by attrition basically as people have either fallen out of the system because they've developed their income or that they don't qualify they've died they've moved on they moved out of the community we've not filled those positions so where we might have had a section 8 total of people housed at 1800 at one time now we might be serving 1600 okay does that help you any it does so so is this revenue from at least now it doesn't mean in the future but from the Ohala potential project from the veranda it seems from what you've just said and from at least what I've read in the numbers that were provided and there may be some other things that I'm not seeing it seems like that money is needed to help fill in some maybe potential funding gaps of currently with the federal government in other words it's not money that if you didn't have it would you be whole or would you have a deficit would you have a deficit in your budget isn't this at this point in this date and time we probably would see some cuts and we're going to see cuts in our funding so we do need additional revenue stream and so that means that we would have to operate that program differently meaning I would probably have to have less staff and we would be cutting the budget that way so to speak okay the other part of it is if we did we're not going to get the developer fees that we thought we were going to get then we wouldn't do the programs that we're planning to do we would not provide funding to the community to provide services for families in the community we wouldn't do a security deposit program we wouldn't do those things so we would take that chunk out and not do those programs yes go ahead I'm sorry mayor pro tem something he said miss McDade so when you say something that she just said you mentioned the services for the community and that was one of the things that I wanted to talk about today and one of the main reasons that I brought up the policy aspect of this and how we approached that so I think Kristen English and I met and somebody else met as well I'm sorry I can't remember the other person that met with us but we talked about some services that are provided because that's one of the trade-offs is you know an exchange for what I view as an exchange of an exchange for taking these properties out of the tax rules D HA and the developers somehow step in for some type of community based organization you know role so they're picking up some of the needs of these community members and so what I had asked for was just kind of a list of what type of services are provided at at the different housing projects and you mentioned cutting services so I was hoping you could either if you could clarify for me what services there are at the housing projects and you know what obligations the housing authority has to provide those services just to sidetrack a little bit the goal in my mind for any policy document would be to ensure that residents get services that's that's kind of the meat part of it to say we if we have this project we want to be sure that people are getting after-school services or they're getting wraparound whatever they need to get themselves on their feet because the goal isn't to keep people in public housing for you know their entire life is to help them move to the next stage so if I remember correctly from our meeting Renaissance courts only had after an after-school program that was there and I wasn't sure if DHA was paying for that or who was paying for that and then there was a food pantry available to people at pecan place I do remember that as well and I think that it was available to heritage oaks also but that was the extent of the services and if I'm incorrect please jump in and correct me but I would definitely like to see more in terms of when we do this partnership and I do view it as a partnership we're gonna get a lot for the people who live there and it's gonna be something more than just affordable housing I think you have kind of mixed up the two different things I was answering and addressing the information Chris was asking regarding the veranda any programs or services that will be at the tax credit developments are paid for out of the operation of that project is not out of the developer fee that the housing authority earned what I was speaking to was that if the housing authority can earn those developer fees we're able to use those findings to provide different type of services for instance we are section 8 vassal families were having a hard time finding units mainly because they couldn't pay application fees and security deposit so we were able to find a little bit of funding to hope and partner with them to help pay for some of those things for our voucher families that's not at the housing properties we also are working on a tenant-based real assistance program that's separate from our housing voucher program that will work in the same way we're partnering with United Way right now the boards already approved two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to use for services and programs that have nothing to do with the tax credit development that we're doing or the actual properties that we're actually operating right now one of the things that we had talked about in the last two years really with you was having a really good needs assessment within our community and of course United Way has recently published that and put that out and one of the biggest things we saw within that needs assessment was in fact the need for housing which they stress tremendously and that work that we did to jointly help define some of those things within our community and of course as you know we have great relationship with the United Way they're in the process of building a new building and we have been a part of the land acquisition with them on some property that we actually already owned we need some more meeting space and they were going to provide that for us on a regular basis on a long-term situation so it's been a great relationship with the United Way as we looked at that needs assessment at the time when they first started it we had nearly 3,000 people on our waiting list that wanted services in some way shape or form in affordable housing today I think that list is now down to 8,000 now thousand okay which is also one of the reasons why some of the nonprofits or people that want to build within our community would like to come through the Housing Authority is because we've got that built-in list for them on how we can help fill those projects up with new people and their their process of getting to full occupancy become shortened which is a big a benefit so I guess just going back to kind of the that clarifies things thank you so what steps can the city or DHA take to ensure that when these housing projects come online they are actually providing things to the residents more than just a roof over their heads we'd like to negotiate that right into the contract I really think that one of our consultants can kind of give you some insight into what we tried to do and what other tools might be available to us so let me ask it let me ask a real quick let me ask something of the DHA board do you see a role for the city and ensuring that those different types of services are provided say it again do you see a role for the city and ensuring that those different types of services are provided at the housing level and I'm consultant the housing authority I believe the the actual legal agreement is between the housing authority the developer so that would have to be included in a contract between the housing authority and the developer for specific services that would be expected and required and it could be done even in the deed restriction those service will be provided and enforceable so has that been in prior deeds yes with a veranda there's a contract that requires the developer to provide specific services at that complex and again it's enforceable because they stand to lose the tax credit they receive from the state so what are some of the types of services that they're required to provide there's a whole list of services from after school to services for adults literacy and other educational programs okay so I'll go back again we can provide those lists and again I think that going into a new proposal I think it's our responsibility to provide you with the information of what is going to be provided what are the requirements with that you've been a party to that agreement but you're knowledgeable of what the housing authority is required the developer to provide Sarah Mac let me kind of introduce Ramon if I might Ramon is not only a consultant for our housing authorities and consulted for the Fort Worth Housing Authority and several other housing authority in this north north Texas area but 27 years with the city of Fort Worth the last part of that as assistant city manager with them so he really understands I think city issues one of the reasons we brought him on board in particular because of those city insight that he has I believe we've thoroughly investigated this we have contracts around it I think you ask what if we need the city to help us enforce that see the kids get that and frankly if you don't mind my saying so I think we've taken care of it we have contracts we have people assigned we we're working very hard and diligently on this for all our for all our units but we would welcome your input to know what services what other services you think might dovetail into our operations each one you know from other cities each one of these each one of these builders brings a different set of tools with them when what they have done in the past and they're comfortable with and so as we negotiate a particular project we're looking to to see if we can springboard off of some things that they've done past in the past that they've had you know good luck with and trying to develop support for their that particular constituency let me address that because I appreciate you bringing up the services component and this is this is where I stand this is where I'm getting stuck okay this is where I'm getting stuck because what I've heard you say is that those services provided for the residents are negotiated in the contract and come out of operational revenues they're paid for by from the operational revenues of the development in other words these so correct me if I'm wrong but whatever services are at veranda are paid for out of the cash flows received from the rents and then that's just part of the expense to get the that's correct for the residents at that site so that's really I mean if a developer came to the city outside of a partnership with the Denton Housing Authority I don't know if we could we could certainly encourage developers to provide those kind of service for me what I'm saying is that what seems to be different here from a developer coming before the city or developer coming before the city with the partnership with the Denton Housing Authority are these developer fees revenues and then the the positive the net cash flow sharing in other words after all the operational expenses are paid after all the social services for that community are paid all the debt service everything the housing authority shares in that cash flow revenue so when I store this sort of dovetails in what you were talking about Sarah so for me that additional money and let 's just call it a million dollars that's not just so that I don't have to keep going back and trying to figure out the numbers so that's a million dollars we're gonna use we're gonna use 700,000 that's more closely to the brand so that money is coming in unrestricted unencumbered by organizational kind of offsets expense offsets so so the housing authority is getting that money when I look at the budgets and when I look at the the the 1617 budget where what you were saying share I think what you were alluding to is the services that we're saying we're going to do above and beyond what have been contracted for by the developer and these were the ones that it released listed on this this page United Way partnership 5% which was $63,250 I'm only given these as an example pilot housing assisted program 150,000 giving hope partnership deposits that's the one you were talking about I think of 500 $5,000 excuse me for total community contribution of 218,000 and 250 dollars for as far as in your budget analysis in 2016 17 but the ohala revenue alone if it had gone as planned was over a million and seventy five thousand dollars and so then you have reserved some so you got the 218,000 from the 1.7 1 million 75,000 so you take the 218 off you're down to about 800,000 then you put 450, 000 in reserve fund for that so I'm just trying to understand what I don't want I'm just gonna say it as clearly as I can I struggle with entering into a policy where maybe half at least half of that additional money goes to potentially fill a funding gap that's been created by the federal government because what I'm hoping is that most of that money goes to provide additional services that right now neither the city nor the Denton Housing Authority are offering because we don't have the resources so that's where I'm getting stuck I'm trying to make sense I'm sorry I'm a very detailed person I know this was supposed to be a general conversation but that's why with the policy application that we've submitted sort of for your review that helps us because in some of that we're asking how much money is going to be required you know how much money is going to be paid what are you identifying as the money that's going to be paid to the additional services that are going to be provided as per that sort of example and that helps us go okay helps me go okay we're saying we're not going to get five hundred thousand dollars of tax revenue that will benefit all kinds of services in the city we're going to go ahead and forgo that and enter into this partnership so the Denton Housing Authority can realize some additional revenue so that we can have some additional services specifically targeted to this kind of these kind of services that we're talking about that is the and if I if somehow that's confusing please ask me because I've been trying to communicate that for six months to eight months and I've met with several in this room privately I met with the board publicly once that's really the crux for me it's it's pretty simple because I have no problem let me just say that unequ ivocally I have no problem entering into a partnership with any organization in the city of Denton if it helps us maximize the amount of services that we can derive from revenue if we can create more services based upon the same amount of revenue whether it's city tax dollars or it's going to a nonprofit that's a no-brainer but to understand that decision it just requires information so yes I believe that you're talking about is not the Housing Authority board that was some information that I provided to city staff I think I had about one or two days to put some numbers together that's nothing that's been approved by oh no and that's fine I'm not example it was an example of some things we can do yes and so the bulk of that in the few days in time that we had was that portion a large portion of that in that year would be used to for reserves for the purchase of Renaissance yes yes and so that's yes what it no I understand yes let's see we got Dalton then mr. Geese and then Cheryl did oh you didn't raise your hand okay and then salty yeah yeah I just want to give some people a chance who hadn't spoken yet go ahead it seems to me that the most it's an important question that mayor pro tem asks what services are provided and I and I think that the most basic answer to that question is you're providing affordable housing and you're using the income that comes off of that to provide affordable housing that's that's the basic mission of your organization and and in your your mission statement says to transform DHS D HA into a premier housing authority through honest and effective leadership by providing quality affordable housing and promoting programs that foster economic independence so I think maybe down the road a way to communicate to us is to say give us some things like like not only the numbers we have the number of facilities that y'all are associated with and the number of units but so how many people are benefiting from affordable housing because of that and and through the I guess the section 8 housing things that y 'all help work with so throughout the town how many individuals are are receiving the benefit of affordable housing that's your most basic service that you're providing and then and then to get a list of those other programs that may be available whether it's assistance with deposits to focus for section 8 privately owned in you know properties or or the programs at the various services at the various complexes that you have but I think one of the things that I'm hearing also is you're trying to develop a cash reserve so that when your option comes up to purchase Renaissance courts you can do that yes and and so these funds will help bring your your reserves up so that you can do that in an affordable way probably reduce the amount that you have to borrow and pay interest on is that right now if Renaissance courts once it meets or any of these complexes that that have been built through tax credits once they hit their 30-year mark they've met their obligation for their tax credits is that right after that particular point exactly 15 after that point are they oblig ated to continue to provide affordable housing or can they just take that all up to market rate pardon there's an extended lure that for 15 additional years so okay so there's an extended for a period they have to provide it but after they're done they don't have to provide that housing affordable housing anymore it can be market driven housing but if you guys take over the ownership of it then it's kind of guaranteed as an ongoing perpetual affordable housing so it seems to me that what we're talking about is is you guys are looking for ways to get the revenue necessary to maintain or increase your stock of properties so that you can continue to provide affordable housing and just maintaining enough the current inventory is not going to be sufficient because of the growing need for affordable housing okay so so I think if y 'all gave us those reports on all the people that are you know all those numbers it would be helpful and and the programs and maybe there are some additional programs that that have been identified through the United Way or that our council members can identify that that may be possible for us to partner with you on Dalton I'll just say this this is where we are right now as a housing authority we have not been able to issue a voucher for just about over a year because the funding is not there if a voucher comes back to us and that a family terminates from the program we cannot reissue that voucher and so what we're looking at is people knocking on our door every day all day needing and asking for assistance so our our the board's vision and plan has been that if we can get some additional revenue that doesn't have any HUD attachment no federal strings attached to it then we can create a program on our own that could help some of those families that come to our door so that's I want to recognize mr. Gacy has been very patient because it's it's it's not possible people because each family comes in and gets a voucher doesn't get one and so forth same thing is true with these Renaissance courts and Van Yacht that you have units and so we've got so many units needs one but what I wanted to come back more is that we have a very variable operation for example in 19 and 2014 we had an income of about 700,000 2015 we had a loss of 800 and some thousand so where our cash flow and this is not cash flow necessarily because we're on a parole basis but we do have a fluctuation in there and like the development fee it doesn 't all come in at once it comes in if they have the cash to pay for in a lot of such ways so we have to be extremely careful about looking at what kind of situation are we looking at how are we going to handle that in that situation so it's very difficult to have a progress like Vanguard and say we're going to have this kind of cash flow this year that we have had some we haven 't had it all yet and I don't know whether we'll have it all for a while I think it 's going to be several years before we'll get all that money in as a free cash flow so we have to be careful about the contract and what is there a lot of them is based on whether or not the cash is there now another example I'll just use an example it's not maybe critical here Renaissance Court several years ago we had to advance them a little over $200,000 to help them refinance so we get better interest rates so they'd be more profitable Renaissance Court over the year hasn't been extremely cash flow for they haven't paid that back and it's been out three or four years because they haven't had the cash to do it and that was part of the room so it's not and again our voucher program is such that they keep cutting the administrative cost and some of our administrative cost doesn't go down it stays right there and we're short of money and that that has to be come from other sources so we have a total operation so I don't think we look at just one thing is that well this is free money we have to look at what the total operation is about and that's my point because really this whole conversation started when the Housing Authority board asked for us to work together to craft a policy which I don't think anybody on this council has has had any necessary there hasn't been anybody that says we don't want to do that it's been more like what do we need what information do we need in order to do that and be true to our charge as council members with tax dollars or deferring tax dollars now I will say I'm gonna be truthful when you say that because these developers I mean like Renaissance Court you know they haven't paid or it hasn't paid like it was supposed to and so you know my thought has been okay you've got 15 years out to save up money to purchase Renaissance Court I would think that some of that would be self-funded from the contracts that you enter into with those developers that okay we're gonna enter into these contracts if we want to buy it in 15 years we need to make sure we put this back but if they don't perform then you got a problem so in essence in essence what we're what I'm only saying is if we 're going to forgo property tax revenue so Dalton in address to your affordable housing a developer can come in here and build affordable housing without the partnership I mean they can do that and so we and they have and we've approved it and so we're continuing to promote affordable housing the the reason for the partnership has been how do we instead of letting the developers pocket a million and a half or two million dollars whatever what's the total developer feed that the housing authority is going to get on veranda once if I don't want to say if they pay it but once they pay it what is it going to be okay well put the in the budget 750,000 is a partial payment so let's just say it's a million or two million dollars plus some cash flow so so the question becomes do we want that money to sit in the pockets of the developers and investors who buy those tax credits or do you want to share in that and bring that money into the community in some form or fashion to help us increase the services that we're not already providing and that's to me really the question for me is if we're going to say we're going to forego these city taxes on these affordable housing projects that can come in and provide affordable housing without the partnership and we say no we think we can do a better job of that by partnering with the housing authority and allowing them to have an additional revenue stream of whatever million and a half or two million dollars over 15 years then it's just part of the application part of the reason for the application is then help us understand what additional services that you're going to be funding through the community such as United Way or grants etc or hope incorporated for deposits or interfaith with plus one utility assistance payments that we're not doing right now it's basically saying we're taking the money out of the developers pockets because that's where it is and we're bringing it back into the community and putting it in charge of the Denton Housing Authority to be fiduciary stewards of that money to maximize the services that we're providing to our residents that we are not doing right now that to me is that's the question for me and that's then the application process is what this council had decided was the best way to do that so that we can have the information to make that decision so we're not trying to be onerous with it all you have to do say hey we'd like this and we'll be glad to send it to you and we're I'm not protective of the information about how much you're given and you have somebody at our meetings every single time and she might be requested to request of us while she's down there have you sent the city this month's whatever we're we are trying to be open as well and if we know more about what you'd like we can do a better job and we what I'm trying to point out is we already have a liaison to help us communicate some of that should we choose to use her is there so I'll just ask this question is there an opposition from the Denton Housing Authority board to the application process that was submitted by city staff for your review that when a project comes forward that that the city could gather that information in order to help make a decision on the resolution that would be requested to support the project is there a problem with that application process one of the things that we're looking at and what you're looking at is tax exemption that 's that's to go through some of these possible a 4% or 9% without a tax is not going to be a viable project now what that tax exemption over the long run should generate enough revenue to help us do some other things for the city but it's not going to be within the first few years because the cost we we have to provide for reserves for non-replacement reserve but for maintenance and so forth in these contracts and so that clears up for example when heredity jokes bonds finally paid off about five or six years ago I don't remember the exact date but we've got a income of money and call my because the reserves has had we haven't spent most that's something because heredity joke needs some major overall and when Renaissance course comes up we won't have enough reserve to finance it we're gonna have three finance this is I don't think it's possible for us to reserve enough we'll reserve will help sure but the thing is here that we have to look at so I I'm perfectly willing as an individual not as the bond not speaking for the board now that if we generate some excess cash that we should use it to help this community I have no problem with that at all but sometimes trying to define that say you're going to have two dollars this year extra this is not is doing difficult to do because of our fluctuations and that's what we're looking at is that it's not going if you put us in there and say well you have to furnish certain money in lieu of taxes when that that wasn't the question I mean the question was we submitted an application that had information if there's an objection to it what would you guys want to see in order to cure that objection because we're not trying to tell you you're we're not saying I'm not saying can't speak for anybody else not saying this is what you got to do with it it's simply what we're talking about right now is how do we get this policy or this relationship off- center I mean it's sort of stuck right now and it's been because we're trying to craft a policy that we can look at as these come forward instead of it being an ad hoc decision on a case-by-case basis how can we create a standard streamlined process of information gathering that will go okay here's the information here's what is before us here's what is projected to be the revenue projected to be the expenses and and where they're going understanding that it fluctuates so if we're not if we don't have some direction by the end of this meeting about the application the actual application that was sent for your review and how we can maybe revise that where if there's some objections to it or something but if you just don't want it all together please feel free to say that I mean I don't I don't have any objection to that I mean I think councilmember Hussman was trying to get in so go ahead yeah no salty was you sure okay getting my head around right just kind of I came on planning and zoning I was on planning zoning for random but that's about the extent of it and then in this body but kind of outside looking in and correct me where I'm wrong it seems like there's this fun that I liken to and I could be totally off base but I liken it to Jerry Jones when he or stadiums when they went to a seat licensing type revenue source because it's a new revenue source that doesn't have as I listen to miss Mcdade doesn't have these restrictions tied to it and then I listened to your comments and and I try to read read through that and it sounds like it's where is that going and I hear you hear services often and then you hear there's we have this this fund that is not doesn't have these restrictions that we can use for other things and so really what it comes down to me is I've heard services I've heard other things I've heard there's a few different these Monica but there's no there's no detail to that right so so what does an after-school program cost and so I think that's kind of I don't want to get to a position where we're saying if you're gonna get one million dollars we want five hundred thousand I'm not saying that I mean I don't want to qualify it that way and and to manage the fluctuation of it I get that so maybe it's a percentage that's applied but I think I see a two-pronged process there's a percentage that says this much gets rein vested in our community whatever you're expecting to get if you whenever you realize it that's what we want and there should be a menu of what does an after-school program cost what are I've heard services but I've not heard anyone detail more than two you know so what what other services are there's after school there's budgeting services there's services through the United Way but what yeah yeah so I just is there's an exhaustive list of services and then what are those costs so then when we went when a project comes in and there's four hundred thousand dollars to be had and then we could have a condo candy conversation hey housing authority can say hey we have this project coming on that we need to buy that we can't really afford to deviate from right now and so I think that is the that's the miss for me I don't know that this board is aware that you have generally where that there's projects coming up that you need to purchase but not fully aware of where you are in that process of purchasing purchasing those so veranda comes online there's seven hundred thousand dollars the housing department saying we can do this with that seven hundred thousand dollars and whatever this whatever City Council was expecting to happen with the seven hundred thousand dollars and especially that project that did not make kind of looking at the outside into that it's kind of like there's these the housing authority said hey we have this project it's gonna bring in this much revenue here's what we can do with it and the City Council 's like where's that money going and and and I think that's kind of the disconnect for me just outside looking in what what what is the exhaustive list of services that are at our disposal how much of those cost and what percentage of this the money with no strings attached to it makes it right for the for the citizens are from for our our charge you know and so that that kind of thing yes my name is Maddie Jones I'm with Codes Rose law firm counsel to the house of authority with respect to the services the QAP lists a cafeteria list of services by the AP QAP is what is the qualified allocation plan okay the qualified allocation plan is the document that's ultimately signed by the governor that dictates the scoring criteria and the rules for the state's award of tax credits and that's for the 9% program in the 4% program and that's for the low -income housing tax credit program okay thank you given that qualified allocation plan called the QAP every state has one then that each state gets to decide how to waypoints to give out the funds and it's a department it's a Treasury program and it's an allocation of credits so to answer your question about the services the developer and make an application chooses several of points related services and those services are delivered as a requirement of their receipt of the credits okay then when you get to your process this the form and the application that you're proposing that's the city's document that's not the housing authorities documents I wanted to just go on record of saying while the housing authority I believe may have already weighed in on general perceptions that I believe the QAP actually speaks to in the document that it's the municipality that needs to be comfortable with that because there are legal impediments and issues related to fair housing laws etc with respect to your process okay so that's probably that's just a city role and with respect to the funds I think that's the second part of your question when the developer fee comes to the housing authority those funds are the housing authorities funds the housing authority can then through vote decide how to disperse those funds for various programs some of which are listed and I think the dollar amounts would change but I think as Miss May Day said she in response to the time frame threw out some ideas which were not voted by the board so those numbers when the if the funds are there you put it in the budget you spend it if the funds aren't there you don't put it in the budget so you can't spend it so but the legal body of the housing authorities a separate political subdivision state of Texas and they have the same Stuart level fiduciary responsibilities as the city is with respect to this but the money they would spend would be mission-driven deliverables be it services or housing that hope that answers your question outstanding thank you you were asking if if then housing authority had any concerns about the application process and I think we actually have something of an answer to that yeah I just read it it's on if it's on exhibit 3h and it's on page 132 to 134 of that exhibit where it was a letter from Miss McDade to Sarah Kutcher on September 14 2017 so I think that that really answers part of what no no no because unless and I don't know the underlying process of the draft of this letter my question was addressed to the board I do understand that miss McDade share you sent a letter basically saying this thing ought to be shelved until we've come up with a policy to better address affordable housing so you will better understand the need availability and resources available so was that letter a letter that was approved by the board of directors for the Denton Housing Authority no okay so then then might I ask this because I don't I mean you may not be able to answer my question then today quite frankly I just simply posed the question to say we are more than willing and I will say that yes I totally understand that the money that comes in from the developer fees and goes to the Denton Housing Authority is legally their money I don't think anybody here has said anything different than that but the source of those funds comes from a partnership or a policy request from the Dent on Housing Authority board with the city of Denton so of course it's going to be their money legally the city's not going to come in there and tell you how to do it but to receive that money you've asked for a partnership with the city of Denton so so if you can't answer that question that's fine because I just and if the answer is we don't like the application process and we don 't want to have anything to do with it that's real okay too I mean that's really what this meeting is for is to get us unstuck from where we are in moving forward because we will get other people coming into this city wanting to do affordable housing projects and they'll have two choices they can come directly to the city or the city could direct them to to work with the Dent on Housing Authority or they could come to the Denton three options or they could come to the Denton Housing Authority on their own either way all of that information eventually will have to still be worked through if it's a partnership with the Denton Housing Authority between the Housing Authority and the City Council so I have no problem with that I'm just trying to understand for us we've developed this application process for this and if you don 't like it fair enough if you have some other recommendations or suggestions more than open to that yes yes I want to make sure I stated sure the response quickly so when you said the partnership process the actual application that you may or may not Institute the QAP has developers going to cities to get consent and those you mean is that are those the resolutions of support okay all right okay and that is solely within your purview oh no understand okay so when you say the partnership process I want to make sure that no no understand okay so then the the way in would not be okay so formal way in when you say the partnership between the Housing Authority and the city no no I understand it's not a formal legal document it's a it's a sometimes what works best in that is when everybody's got the same common goal and everybody knows and as far as affordable housing that that we're all working together we 're not going to be issuing partnership agreements and those kind of things but it's how do we work together to achieve the same common goal okay I just want to make sure yes thank you very much I appreciate that yes ma'am thank you sure I think when council members talk about partnership I think part of what we're talking about is if we're agreeing to forego property taxes then then that makes us partners in a way and and so so if we're foregoing property taxes on one of these units and some of those could be significant then then then we have we have by that vote or by that decision become partners and and I think for some of us the our return on that partnership our return on that investment is we have more affordable housing and there may be some folks on the council that well I want a little bit more than that I want to know about some programming return investment also or it may be some other kind of return on investment I'm not sure but but I think that's that's and council members correct me if I'm if I'm miss interpreting what we mean by partnership because that 's what I'm thinking of when I'm thinking about I've got to be honest with you I struggle when you say that by entering into these informal partnerships that will have more affordable housing a developer can come in here and ask us to for a support a resolution of support and the housing authority not be involved at all and that's nothing against the housing I'm just saying so we do have the opportunity to have more affordable housing the thing is can we have the same amount of affordable housing but because of struct uring this sort of informal kind of working together we're able to capture some of those fees that normally would not be infused back in the community and allow those fees to be transferred to the Denton Housing Authority who can then provide more services for those affordable housing units that could have come in anyway so we it's not a zero-sum game we do obtain a benefit out of the same amount of money that's what they teach you all in negotiation how do you take the same amount of money and create more value and this is the way to do it because affordable housing units can come in it's how do you take that and the fees associated with that and make that pie bigger without having anybody to have to pay more money if you can do that you've really achieved a very good a very good goal yes sir yes and then there are different options to provide affordable housing and that a developer can can do it on their own by coming to the city and get into resolution there are two programs under the tax rate program the nine percent and the four percent we've spoken about that quite a bit the nine percent offers quite a bit more equity in the sale those tax credits to in fact make some of those projects financially viable without a tax exemption in the last year or so last couple of years because of the market of the tax credits I have not seen a single four percent tax credit program in the state of Texas that's funded without either a grant from a public entity or tax exemption only because of the price that the tax credit are being sold and a four percent only provides about 30 percent equity of the construction cost so nine percent can probably be done without a tax exemption as we talked before a nine percent is very very competitive there was only eight of those awarded in recent three the Dallas Fort Worth didn't area last year and so they're very competitive most of the units are done under the four percent which financially it's either a grant or a tax exemption that they would allow them to be feasible was the palladium and I'm going to recognize mayor protein right now was the palladium a nine percent or four percent with the nine percent okay mayor protein thank you I just wanted to clarify about the policy statement so in 1970 when the city actually decided to agree to the creation of the DHA which was a part of the state application there was a policy statement in there about why the city was going to enter into this agreement to do that so that policy was there we recognized as a council that we wanted to update that and so the policy statement and exhibit to policy statement and exhibit to states to meet the housing and development objectives of the city of Denton it shall be the city's policy to analyze projects requesting support for proposed HTC housing tax credits such analysis is to determine if the projects comply with certain principles and policies in our 2030 plan as well as various other master strategic and redevelopment or neighborhood plans adopted by the city the goal of this analysis is a to establish if HTC projects merit local support and B prioritize these submissions if more than a single proposal is received during an evaluation period the Office of Development Services serves as the city's primary staff and point of contact for all of these programs my question would be you know in terms of a policy statement I think the council believes this is a pretty good policy statement and the idea was at least in the letter from October we don't want to enter into any type of application process until the city's entered into a clear policy statement in my mind the policy is clear we support housing but we have certain metrics that we'd like to be met and those metrics are laid out in the application process so what I came here expecting to accomplish in the hour and a half or so that we have was that you know to the extent that there's a disagreement about the application process what is that where could it be refined and if the idea is that there's we just don't want an application we really do need to know that because that's going to direct the council going forward I think the last application that we got I'm sorry not palladium but the one prior to that that we ended up rejecting we had I want to say it was three to four weeks if that maybe two weeks to review the application we didn't have sufficient information and the council that was there Councilman Briggs and Council member Gregory if you remember differently please jump in we felt very rushed we felt like we didn't have enough information we felt like we didn't have a process for vetting projects we we felt like we were asking for information piecemeal and not getting it and it was so time-compressed that we couldn't do our jobs and meet our obligations so this was a way for us to address what our obligations are to the people that elected us to support you know the city programs that we are here to support so that's kind of our I thought that was clear going into this that we had been very rushed in that process this came out of how do we make this more organized if there's a problem with the policy or there's a problem with the application we really need some feedback more so than just we don't like it unless that's that's the feedback did you want to you wanted to share some comments right she thought and Sarah absolutely hit on my points very articulately and I think the only thing that I would add is you know the other component of putting that application process together was we continue to get asked well what does the council want to see what kind of information do they want to see and this isn't wasn't necessarily an attempt to force the Housing Authority to justify every project as much as collect the data neatly and provide the council with a little bit more time ahead you know in order to evaluate these processes which is only fair on their end as well if we're talking about some of the trade-offs so it was just an information gathering situation I had seen in the letter that there was a concern it might have a chilling effect on development and the irony with that is that we use many of the cities in Texas with a very active Housing Authority processes to base the the form the information gathering form on so I think if there's a misunderstanding that this was some attempt to have the council weigh in as a another body to approve this it actually was intended just the opposite in order to very concisely grab the information that you know that we continue to get asked questions of this the questions in the two or three applications that we've been through the two every projects from the council and really virtually identical each time so it was very simple to put it into a format so they could easily go through and decide whether or not it was a project they felt comfortable supporting if there was enough wins for the community and some of the council members are concerned about the benefits for the residents and whether there was enough services to help them transition out but there's nothing more than to compile information neatly and for the council and give you time to think and I think there's been this misconception that it was just another layer of approval when that's really was not the point up front I'm sorry but from our perspective it is it's another layer it's another application it's more documents and it's more forms and papers so that that it is for us that's what it is this was again based on numerous other cities in Texas and the experiences are going through to try to provide very obvious rules very obvious prescriptive processes which is only fair that we provide that and you know if the question is what does the council need you know we tried to articulate that we're more than willing to take a look at altering the form and bringing it back to them it was never intended to be an encumbrance upon the project it was more you know intended to streamline it for everyone so point of clarification when you say we look at it as a layer who are the we didn't housing authority the board I mean has the board given direction on this application process either with just totally rejecting it or providing feedback or some other kind of process that would be less onerous to the board first of all the policy that your staff created it never came to the board and we came to a meeting and it was presented to us at that meeting we never got it or saw it prior to and so we had so many days that we need to provide some input or whatever so okay never went to the board your city policy never went to our board of commissioners for approval or not or just or just discussion right yeah okay so I guess my request would be that it maybe y'all could put that on an agenda for discussion and provide us with some feedback so we can take a look at that and make some modifications I mean again we're not trying to mean this as a as another layer I certainly understand and respect if that's how y'all see it and if that's the case show us what that would look like where you didn't believe it to be that and if it means there's nothing there then as mayor pro tem said we would like that information as well I mean it's interest that remember the two the two applications the nine percent applications that the City Council approved it specifically you specifically said and it was motioned by another member that you do not as long as you do not work with the Housing Authority and it was asked that it couldn't be added to the resolution so you specifically were not going to approve a developers resolution if they were working with the Housing Authority well and that was at the very beginning of this and it was after we tried to have a conversation I mean if we're going to go back and revisit history don't have a problem doing that I can't make the motion as the chair so I did not make the motion as the chair but that was early on in the process when we had tried to figure out how do we get this policy together how do we formulate it together if we want to go back and revisit all that we can do that I think what we need to do is is simply I'll say it again if we could just get some feedback on the application that we've provided from our staff to say hey and I believe the letter was what is your feedback on this not saying this is what it needs to be so we're in respect of everybody's time we're going to wrap this up so I simply respectfully request that within a reasonable amount of time since we're not hur ried by any development coming in coming forward that the board give this council some feedback on the application process or the application form that we've submitted for review and that if we need to we'll get together with maybe some members of the board and members of the council and an ad hoc committee and if there's some concerns try to hash that out and if at the end of the day we can't come to an agreement that's okay too that happens all the time so I'm just trying to facilitate getting us off-center so yes you sure can yes absolutely that application and what I think we're referring to now is an application for developers who are coming to the city with a development in mind does that does that application go to the developers that go to the Housing Authority we will be asking everyone to complete the same application it's really again we're using application for formal approval it 's really an information tool maybe I'm using the wrong word I apologize requesting your permission all right so what you're at what you're doing I think is you're being kind enough to send it over and say hey took a lucky test and what's your feedback on it I think that's so it is my understanding that the Housing Authority provides no data on that information gathering sheet that we have sent over for their sort of feedback or is there some information there that is required for the Housing Authority to complete does anybody have an answer that question if you could if you could come to the yes so that yeah that the the paperwork that was sent over which precip itated the letter from Sherry we developed a draft of a housing tax credit application process that all developers would go through and then we shared it with Sher ry to discuss any feedback that the Housing Authority might have on the application as we proposed it and that's what resulted in her response okay so my question is that specific application the actual form of that in the request on that application is there any questions on that application that require the Denton Housing Authority to complete it or does it simply go solely to the developer for their completion it is developed so that any developer would fill it out there are questions that might point out that is the Housing Authority meaning we're asking if it's tax-exempt or not but all developers are required to fill out so that's the Housing Authority doesn't complete any of those questions they nothing that's different than any developer would have to okay financial narrative of attachment checklist section and sub section D number three says a detailed plan clearly showing how project revenues will be distributed using the uses by the public housing partner and community contribution investment I think that answer would have to come from the house of course if in fact and that and that's a question I would like okay so so yes so to answer that dr. stream there there are some things that the Housing Authority board would have to look at and consider that's why we sent it to you to get your feedback we I don't think the letter said this is what we're doing take it or leave it it's like help us understand how we can better this process so if y'all could just get it on the agenda that we will review and discuss that project and get results of those two things back to you that would be perfect I appreciate that yes yes I didn't know it given up my place in line when I yielded to mr. Hudson and I only come in as a point of clarification yes I know we've been here for extended pre time no it's been great just a couple of things within the application process and I don't want you to feel City Council piece of people that we were trying to rush the issue but the qualification process for the nine percent funding is a very very short opportunity window that we ever have that they we put together within the state a point system and that point system unfortunately for us changes every single year so it 's an ongoing moving target on trying to qualify for the scoring on those things this last year was one of the very first times in five years and I went to the previous one six years ago that we've had an opportunity even be hope that we might be qualified to qualify for that that process actually opened the in December like this the first part of December first week in December it closed out for submitting application in January January 15th January 16th I'm sure that Ramon can can fill us in on that then you had to like March 15th down all those those processes in order so when we came to you we felt handicapped also I know what you thought we were rushing you but it's a very short qualification period so it's it's awkward for all of us because as I say we weren't prepared to give you answers because we hadn't been eligible you even think about it for so many years in the meantime we've gotten some answers from United Way and at one of those meetings that we had you were asking us what programs you were going to provide well we gave you some very general ideas we weren't very specific about it but now we've gone back with United Way now that we had some needs needs assessment and we have some things we can really put our handle on to we need transportation for people we need ongoing education we need after school programs so all those parts of things that help them qualify for what our community particularly needs and the things that they 're good at bringing back to our community they feel comfortable with is part of that packet we try to negotiate for you so as I said that's just clarification so the United Way needs assessment is going to be a big help to us and we 've already funded part of that out in order to make sure that we're working with them to get programs in our community but we also want them to help run those programs because they can share those with other communities other than just the ones we bring online but to bring you up to date if I can very quickly with 9% and 4% monies within our community we these are things that are listed in our packet I don't know how much of that package you got but pecan place which is owned by Denton Housing Authority represents 24 units okay 9% money project that was approved and is a part of us since 1994 is a country place apartments and they've got the water for expensive Spencer Oaks Spencer Oaks it's a 9% project you got pebble brook apartments it's a 4% project you got Rosemont these have nothing to do the ones that most recently I'm reading have nothing to do with the Denton Housing Authority Rosemont Pecan Creek Prim rose Sequoia Park Quail Creek North and then Renaissance Court which is ours that's 150 units Providence Place 2 Renaissance Court twice I think we had these in our backup okay I just wanted to make sure but all those are 9% helpful or don't you already have that backup material we have the backup I think what I think we're at a point as far as I'm concerned I think what we've done is we've talked about our different interests and in our different approaches and how can we find some common ground and then how do we move forward with anything based upon how we move how we come to either an agreement or some type of collaborative effort on the application process however you guys decided so really we're just sort of waiting on that feedback whatever that may be to determine that and I just want to on behalf of the Denton Housing Authority thank you mayor for moving forward with this question and this need for discussion and thank you council members for being willing to give your time we value this relationship we want it to be positive it is our intention to continue with you to make sure that it is based on the guidelines we have currently to live with we plan to go forward and thank you so much for giving us this time thank you I appreciate y'all coming and sharing with us because this is this is how you come up with the best the best process and the best decision you come together you discuss your interests your goals your agreements your disagreements and you try to find the common ground and I appreciate all your hard work look I've been a landlord of the Denton Housing Authority I don't even know how long 15 or 20 years so I understand the importance of that program and what they what you all provide for the community and it's a great need so anything we can do to continue to further that mission I think this council stands ready and willing to do that with the cooperation of the dentist if salty does have information available that has not been presented to you I'd like to make sure you get it okay sure thing all right okay thank you very much we will go ahead and adjourn this portion of the Denton City Council meeting at 1 o at 1 13 p.m. on what's today December the 4 th 2017