Jul 25, 2017 City Council on 2017-07-25 1:00 PM

[BLANK_AUDIO] Welcome everyone to this meeting of the Denton City Council . Tuesday, July 25th, 2017, we wanna call the meeting to order. We do have a quorum, we actually have full attendance. We're gonna move through our work session agenda items. And then we'll have a special called session at the end. Agenda item number one is citizen comments on consent agenda items. Seeing no blue cards. Move on to the agenda item number two, which is request for clarification of agenda items listed on the agenda for today, July the 25th, 2017. Any clarification of agenda items? All right, seeing none. Move on to our work session reports. Agenda 3A, receive report and hold discussion regarding a progress report on homelessness initiatives from the United Way of Denton County and Denton County Homeless Leadership Team. [BLANK_AUDIO] >> Afternoon, Mayor, Council. >> Good morning, afternoon. >> We've brought in for this work session a special guest. The Community Development Director of Homelessness Initi atives for the United Way, Courtney Cross. It's gonna provide a presentation for you on the progress for the Homeless Leadership Team. And then following this presentation, I don't see Chief Paulson. Chief Powell is here though to answer any public safety questions regarding any issues you might have with that as well. >> Great, thanks. >> Courtney. >> Thank you, Danny. Good afternoon. Pull out my notes here before I get started. >> Good afternoon, City of Denton Council members and Mayor Watts. Thank you for your time today and thank you for your service to our community. My name is Courtney Cross. I'm the Director of our Homelessness Initiatives at the United Way of Denton County. I'd like to begin by thanking you all and Mayor Watts for your continued support and consistent championing of system wide efforts to address homelessness and housing security in our community. Our community is not unique in what it faces in regards to housing insecurity and affordable housing and all of those buzz words we're hearing lately. But we are very lucky to have leadership that values implementing some system wide efforts to really address this. And if you take anything away from this presentation today, our desire is for you to understand the collaborative efforts of organizations and individuals working throughout the city of Denton and the county tirelessly to build capacity, improve data, and help Denton move from a community that maintains homelessness to a community that is able to measurably move the needle and ensure that homelessness is prevented where possible and in all other instances, ensure that it is a rare, brief, and non-recurring experience. Goals of this presentation today, I'd like to introduce our new council members to ongoing United Way of Denton County and City of Denton Hom elessness Initiatives. I'd like to update the council on past, present, and future progress of the Denton County Homelessness Leadership Team and its collaborative partners. We're making a request for continued support of these initiatives from the city of Denton. And as Danny mentioned, we're also here to address any questions regarding public safety and homelessness. The ultimate goal of today's presentation is to really communicate to you all the process improvements that have been made throughout the last 18 months through this collective impact initiative. And to really clearly communicate the strategic plan to continue this work. I'll begin by briefly outlining the structure of the Denton County Homelessness Leadership Team. This team operates as a quasi-governmental, strategic, policy-making body. And its appointees bring specific skill sets and backgrounds to this complex county-wide systems issue of homelessness. The Denton County Homelessness Leadership Team consists of appointees from the city of Denton, the city of Louisville, the city of Sanger, Denton County Commissioner's Court, board members of homelessness and housing service agencies, healthcare providers, and representation from higher education, workforce development , and the United Way of Denton County Board of Directors. I'd like to take a moment to recognize the appointees in the room today. Mayor Chris Watts chairs this leadership team. Councilwoman Keely Briggs represents the city of Denton. We've got Alice Mankoff here. She's a board member with the Denton County Friends of the Family. Cindy Harris, a board member with Giving Hope Incorporated. Terry Woodmer, who represents the community at large, I suppose you could say. We do have one of our United Way board members here as well , Ellen Painter. Gary Henderson and Danny Shaw also act as ex officio appointees to that committee. The Denton County Homelessness Leadership Team is informed by work groups, which are composed of direct service providers, and true experts in their areas who volunteer countless hours to research, vet, and recommend solutions and strategies, which we believe will help us achieve our mission of making homelessness very brief and non-recurring throughout Denton County. You're going to hear that a lot more as well. This initiative is built on the collective impact framework . It's a strategy for tackling deeply entrenched and complex social problems. It's an innovative and structured approach to making collaboration work across government, business, philanthropy, non-profit organizations, and citizens to achieve significant and lasting social change. Collective impact is more than just collaboration, and it's built on five conditions. That stakeholders share a common agenda and vision for change. That they establish shared measurements for that change and engage in mutually reinforcing activities. That they communicate and meet consistently over time to employ some goals they've set to achieve that change. And lastly, the backbone support that really helps to further along that initiative to build public will and public trust to really mobilize resources. The vision of the Denton County Homelessness Leadership Team is that every person in Denton County has a place to call home that is safe, affordable, accessible, and supported by community resources. A lot of what we do and a lot of what I hear from our providers is that a lot of the folks that are accessing services and requesting some form of rental assistance or food assistance or whatever it may be to help them through the housing crisis they're experiencing is that they really, they just do not have the support system that you and I may have. Be it through a family or a friend or some kind of network, community group or church group. These really are the folks who don't have the resources to reach out and get back on their feet. And so that's a lot of what this leadership team is built on. The mission of this team is to foster an effective and coordinated system of homelessness prevention and intervention resulting in homelessness that is rare, brief, and non-occurring through community awareness and connection. Data driven, evidence based, fiscally responsible recommendations, your favorite. Innovative solutions around affordable housing, access to primary and behavioral health care services, adequate incomes and coordinated services, and by mobil izing and advocating and empowering public, private, community wide collaboration. For this portion of the presentation, I'll just focus on the history and origin of this initiative for those of you that are new to this initiative. In the summer of 2015, Mayor Watts convened the Mayor's Housing the Homeless Task Force to explore the improvement and expansion of housing solutions for people experiencing homelessness in Denton. This task force was then made recommendations to Denton City Council, which resulted in the outification of the former Denton Animal Shelter as the Monsignor King Outreach Center, which is now an inclement weather shelter and it's open Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday evenings. And as well as the coordinator position to support the improved access and services continued and continued oversight of system wide initiatives to address homelessness. That's me. The city of Denton identified United Way as an ideal agency to house this position given its county wide reach. United Way of Denton County hired this position in February of 2016. And the collective impact initiative known as the Denton County Homelessness Leadership Team was launched in May of 2016. By the end of summer 2016, when our community found out that it was not going to be awarded a $600,000 homelessness prevention and intervention grant known as the Emergency Solutions Grant or ESG. The Denton County Homelessness Leadership Team was influential in mobilizing a county wide response to this loss of funding, which resulted in nearly a $400,000 of stop gap funding from City of Denton, City of Louisville and Denton County's Commissioner's Court . In the interest of time, I'm not going to go too far into the loss of ESG funding. We've heard a lot about it, but if you've got questions, please feel free to ask. The visual aids you'll see throughout this presentation are the brainchild of Danny Shaw, Human Services Coordinator. You'll see in the next few slides how they've changed over time. And they've been really key not only in summarizing our system wide approach and really summarizing the current state and our future goals of our Denton County Housing Crisis Response System. But they've also allowed providers to visualize their role in a household's journey as they seek housing stability. A lot of what we get asked is, can you really track someone 's journey from homeless to housed? And so that's really what we try to do here. And by tracking that journey, we're able to pinpoint moments within that journey. Where our system can be improved. So the loss of ESG funding was a result of a number of factors. Two major ones I'll address today. The first is a lack of a diverse housing stock. As I mentioned, an issue that's not really unique to Denton itself. And the second is a lack of a coordinated community wide system to ensure that an individual or family experiencing a housing crisis is quickly and stably housed. This is really key because if we can quickly connect an individual or family to housing the first time they experience homelessness. They're less likely to return to homelessness. And our point in time count data, which is our annual survey of people experiencing literal homelessness conducted by our community volunteers. This data consistently tells us that people experiencing homelessness for the first time make up the majority of our literal homeless population here in Denton County. That's about 39% in 2016 and 42% in 2017. So the Denton County Homelessness Leadership Team's strategic plan seeks to address both of these issues. The lack of a diverse housing stock and the lack of a coordinated system to address homelessness. You can find all the details you want and more in our strategic plan, which have been included in your packet. But I'll just briefly summarize that for you now. The Denton County Homelessness Leadership Team's housing work groups. They have a strategic goal to increase access to housing for residents of Denton County by identifying unmet housing need. Which they seek to do by developing a comprehensive housing inventory. By developing innovative strategies for expanding housing capacity. Which they seek to do by increasing supportive and additional housing units. As well as the implementation of landlord risk mitigation strategies to increase access to existing housing inventory . By fostering housing stability through increased case management capacity and training amongst our housing providers. By influencing public policy and by seeking necessary funding to support all of these strategic objectives. The Denton County Homelessness Leadership Team's data work group has a strategic goal to focus mainly on the continuous improvement of homelessness data management in Denton County. This is done largely through what's called our Homelessness Management Information Systems Database or HMIS. The work group has established this goal in direct alignment with the leadership team's mission to be data driven and evidence based. Realizing that in order to do so, we must first as a community be able to trust our data and use it effectively to identify and address gaps in our system that keep us from best utilizing community resources . And our goal to ensure that homelessness is very brief and non-recurring. Any questions yet? Over the past year, the Denton County Homelessness Leadership Team's data work group has partnered with the Denton County Homeless Coalition to develop and implement a coordinated entry process for Denton County. Our coordinated entry AmeriCorps VISTA position, Catherine Gonzalez, has been really crucial to the development of this initiative. And we look forward to retaining her skill set in order to further implement and maintain and improve Denton County's coordinated entry process. Simply put, coordinated entry aims to assess every person experiencing homelessness based on their need and connect them to the most appropriate housing intervention. The emphasis of Denton County's coordinated entry process has been to meet people where they're at, assess every person based on their need and connect them to the most appropriate resource as quickly as possible. A major benefit of coordinated entry is that it keeps people who are experiencing a housing crisis from bouncing from provider to provider. We do this by implementing the use of a common intake and assessment process. Denton County service providers are able to quickly identify a person's vulnerability and they are connected with the most appropriate referral source. Their vulnerability is determined by a common assessment tool called the VI-SPDIAT. It really rolls off the tongue. But ultimately, this tool gives individuals and families a score, factoring issues such as length of time spent homeless, mental and physical disabilities, etc. And these scores are used to make the most appropriate referral and to allow providers to prioritize based on community established guidelines as well as program specific criteria. I'll pause for just a moment to mention that one of our partner agencies, Giving Hope, went through a transition recently. And so I had the pleasure of being able to witness more of their day to day activities. And for those of you who don't know, Giving Hope Incorpor ated is our largest provider of rental assistance in the county. And as you can probably imagine, or if not, I'll educate you. It's a constant state of crisis within that building because they're fielding people in the midst of a housing crisis. People on the verge of eviction, people who've been living with their kids out of their car, people who had to pull their kids out of school because if they didn't, they would probably lose them to CPS because they were living out of their car. And it's very difficult for a case management staff to do both, help a family set goals and achieve stability and know which family should come first. It's never an easy decision, but this coordinated entry process really allows us to establish guidelines as a community. Who do we want to prioritize first for the resources that we have, the limited resources we have? And this tool allows us to identify the folks who quite legitimately are at risk of dying on the street. It goes with health issues that are frequent utilizers of our criminal justice system who cost the taxpayers money. It is increasingly more effective to get them connected to supportive housing services, to get them directly into housing from shelter or from the street, and wrap them around with services in order to promote that housing stability over time. >> Councilmember Briggs had a question. >> Yeah. >> So can you, with the coordinated entry, we've learned what it is if it's implemented. But what is the process now? Can you kind of give us something to compare it to? Like what happens now since we don't have it? >> So- >> The process. >> Yes, I am going to speak to that. >> You are? >> Yeah, in the next slide or so. And if I don't, please bring it up again and I'll- >> Okay. >> But I do have that lined up to get to. >> Okay. >> So since the fall of 2016, we've trained seven Denton County agencies in this process. We've established six front door agencies or entry points where people experiencing a housing crisis can access this coordinated entry system. So the staff has been trained, someone walks through the door, they may say, I need some food assistance for my kids . I can't get from point A to point B. They sit down with the case manager and it really comes to their attention that they're actually experiencing housing crisis. They're literally homeless. And so from there, those staff are able to carry out this common assessment and intake process. And that way, and it gets captured collectively in our HMIS database, our community wide database system. So that they're not having to bounce from provider to provider to do another intake process to retell their story . It quickly captures their need, makes a referral, and makes their information with their consent easily accessible by providers. So they can more quickly and effectively address their need . Last year there were a total of 27 of these assessments completed in our HMIS database. And this year to date we've got over 300. And so that's kind of where we're at right now in the process is we've had a lot of late nights, early mornings, long days with our providers to really talk through the logistics of how this works. And as you'll see further in the presentation, our next step is to really track the effectiveness of those referrals, successes and failures if you will, to just see the longevity of that process. >> If you would hit those two numbers again, you said like 23 and 26. >> We had 27, so I believe in 2015 we had 29, 2016 we had 27. And last year we're over 300. I mean this year we're over 300. >> Why such a change in the numbers? It's fantastic. >> Increased training, increased commitment from our providers to buy into, if you will, this process. >> Is it additional providers also that are doing it? >> I believe so. I believe we've got a few additional providers who have been participating in coordinated entry to an extent, but have not been quite so committed to the use of the database in order to share information. So to provide a bit more context, we've actually had these front door agencies have entered into an MOU with each other and have united way as backbone support and have outlined their commitments as a front door agency of how they will train incoming staff in this process. And yeah, it's really been a matter of training. And a pretty big accomplishment is that our Salvation Army shelter has kind of revamped their entire intake process. A lot of these agencies have had the same intake forms for quite a few years and nobody really knows where they came from or why. And so one of our major process improvements is that we have quite literally laid all of these out on the table and identified what is kind of extraneous information that's taking up time and how can we pare it down to have a more uniform intake and assessment process. So whereas these providers have not really had the luxury of time to sit down and evaluate their processes and where they can be improved. These work groups and this initiative has been really strategic to address that. And so the Denton Salvation Army shelter has totally rev amped their intake process to match this process. >> Well, and correct me if I'm wrong. The motivation for this is if we don't do this, much of our federal funding or state funding, this is sort of a mandated initiative that we've got to get this on board to be able to even come close to competing for grants and for federal dollars. Is that too strong or is that- >> That's correct. HUD has increasingly made it a requirement of any kind of HUD funding, whether it be COC or ESG or other acronyms you probably aren't aware of. Coordinated entry is a requirement. >> Okay. >> Now with that being said, they said do it, but figure out how to do it by yourself, essentially. >> Sure. >> So we- >> That's nothing unusual about that. >> Right. So that's what we've been working to develop is in conjunction with the Texas Homeless Network, which is an agency in Austin, which is the lead agency for our service area as a county. But yes, quite plainly put, it is going to be required even more than it is now. And it really is effective in seeing change. The Denton County Homelessness Leadership Team's housing work group has recently launched the Denton County supportive housing pilot, excuse me, which seeks to house ten chronically homeless veterans for up to one year. And this experience was really key in identifying obstacles and barriers to the systematic approach to ending homelessness that we're currently implementing. We've known a lot of client barriers, poor credit background, criminal history, you name it. We know kind of what our clients face, but we've been learning a lot more through this housing pilot. What property managers and landlords and just real estate professionals face, the barriers they face in housing these folks, things like liability insurance. Just being unaware and educated of what it's like to really work with people they perceive as a risk and that sort of thing. So I won't go too far into it, but that has been really key in helping us work out a lot of kinks with this process. In addition to increased training of agencies participating in coordinated entry, United Way of Denton County Backbone Support staff has collaborated with the Denton County Hom eless Coalition to increase awareness of coordinated entry to additional agencies and people experiencing homelessness throughout the county. Coordinated entry information regarding access and experience can be located on the Homeless Coalition's website and the United Way of Denton County's website. Additionally, we've met with faith communities to educate them on Denton County's coordinated entry process and how to best refer folks that they encounter to homeless and housing services. So what's next for coordinated entry? Denton County's coordinated entry process is one that we wish to continuously improve as we increase access and coordination as a community. The next phase of implementation includes increasing access to Denton County's coordinated entry system by identifying and training additional front doors in areas such as Louisville , Sanger, Pilot Point, and Little Elm. Additionally, as I mentioned, we're working to track referrals made in HMIS, both successes and failures, and utilize that data to truly identify gaps and major areas of need. Once our data in HMIS becomes statistically relevant, we can speak to literal housing need. We've been able to pull some initial numbers, as you'll see here, based on the assessments that have been completed in the database. And you can see here that the majority of people experiencing housing crisis are in need of what we call rapid rehousing resources. And in order to be eligible for these resources, you classify as literally homeless, which means you and your family are living in a place not meant for human habitation. You're living in a car, you're living in a shelter, you're living in a tent encampment around the street or what have you. So this is kind of one of the first times, this is as recent as the third quarter, I believe. Oh, second quarter, we're not that far in the year yet. But as you'll see, the majority of the need that we're capturing, and it's very exciting that we can tell you we 're capturing the need. But the majority of the need we're capturing is folks that can't be necessarily diverted. They can't be connected with a family member. They can't be given five bucks to go buy groceries and make their mom not mad at them anymore and let them move back into the house. And then on the higher end of need is what we call permanent supportive housing. Those are the folks that are going to need some more intensive case management over time that are probably never going to be able to live on their own. And right in the middle is rapid rehousing. It's a lot of those folks who are one crisis away. >> Go ahead. >> Can you tell me again what diversion is? >> Diversion is another tool we're trying to help train our agencies in, which is basically says instead of just bringing someone into a shelter, it's not about denying them access. It's really about how can we help you identify additional resources that maybe you haven't thought through. It's a lot more conflict management, mediation tactics, so a lot more how can we help reconnect you with your family? How can we mediate between you and your landlord? How can we maybe ask for seven days until your check comes in or things like that? And it's kind of simply put, but one of the common examples are here is 17 year old, being a knucklehead, not paying, not helping with any other bills, may have a dysfunctional relationship with his parents and they say you're out, you're gone. So what does he do? Bounces around his friend's houses until he kind of burns all his bridges and then shows up at a shelter. And a shelter realizes, okay, this person is probably high risk. They're so young and that if we catch this and if we provide them the support they need this early in their time experiencing homelessness, they're less likely to return. So what can we do to reconnect you with your family? Does your mom want you to pay the bills? Does she want you to bring some groceries home? Maybe we can use 30 bucks of our funds instead of 600 bucks to get you housed. >> Thanks. >> Quite simply put. Do do do, sorry. We're also developing a data dashboard which will allow us to track system performance measures that have been adopted by the Denton County Homelessness Leadership Team. These can also be found in the strategic plan that I know you've all read front to back. These include number of people experiencing homelessness, length of time spent homeless, income levels, families accessing housing assistance, and other measures. And tracking these measures will allow us to establish baseline measurements that will ultimately inform the strategies to achieve the objectives set by our work groups in their pursuit of their strategic goals. So to put it a bit more simply, if we're able to identify as a community, our goal is that a family is not experiencing homelessness for longer than 60 days. By improving the data that goes into our database, we can then run reports that tell us on average families are spending 120 days homeless. So how can we implement smaller solutions to reduce that number over time? And if you take it chunk by chunk, for instance, we want to decrease it by 50% over the next three years. That's some more kind of bite sized pieces that allow us to go into each individual agency and say, okay, how can you make smaller improvements that contribute to the overall process improvements of our housing crisis response system? Any questions on that? The challenges we face in Denton are similar to other communities of different or like sizes. Recently, some teams have visited Austin, Texas and Boulder , Colorado to better understand the promising work they're doing to address homelessness. Visiting outside communities, we're finding not only potential solutions, but are able to identify the progress we're making given our resources and the amount of time we've been working to improve our system 's response to homelessness. Boulder, Colorado is comparable in size to our community, but different in median household market value. And they found success in their utilization of police homeless outreach teams. And I've seen a lot of progress made as a result of effective coordination between city leadership, their local housing authority, and their local mental health authority. Austin is a larger community than Denton, but we share a similar mayor led approach to addressing homelessness and improving our response to housing and security and homelessness. And they found a lot of success in their implementation of coordinated entry, a mayor led initiative to end veteran homelessness, landlord outreach efforts, and their police homeless outreach team as well. Additionally, their city leadership expressed what we've been experiencing as well, which is that it's most effective to keep someone housed than to have to rehouse them. And that they found a lot of excess in rehousing families experiencing housing crisis for the first time as quickly as possible and wrapping them around with services so they're less likely to return to homelessness and more likely to maintain their housing stability. Recently, the Denton County Homelessness Leadership Team approved United Way of Denton County to act as fiscal agent for the Denton County Homeless Coalition. This is key because it will allow the coalition, primarily a networking body that seeks to raise awareness of homelessness in Denton County. Not only awareness of homelessness, but efforts to address homelessness. It will allow them to raise funds on behalf of agencies serving these clients daily. And this is really key because this will act as what we call a barriers fund, which will allow providers to better assist families in crisis to achieve housing stability by providing financial assistance that often falls outside of traditional grant funding criteria, things such as transportation, child care, late fees. The things that are probably at the top of people's lists in their individual improvement plans that they set out with their case managers. But there's still barriers that they face and that if they had an extra 50 bucks for gas or what have you, it would really help them to achieve that stability quicker and then maintain it over time. The leadership team and the Homeless Coalition are piloting this with a text to give homeless awareness and panhandling education campaign. We'll be working closely with Denton Police Department, the Denton Chamber of Commerce, and the Main Street Association on that. So what we are in the midst of brainstorming is a text to give campaign where businesses on the square could put a flyer in the window that says we support this initiative. And would allow not only for education of panhandling and homelessness in Denton. For those of you who don't know, quite often panhandlers are not homeless. It would allow us to kind of increase education in that area and provide a way for funds to be utilized more effectively. So rather than handing someone five bucks on the street, you text and give five bucks that goes directly into our housing providers that are always in need of bus passes and things like that. Some more long term use of these funds include landlord outreach and efforts to mitigate landlord and property owner risk. So the same way that we've been working to improve processes regarding access and referral to existing services. The Denton County Homelessness Leadership Team will work collaboratively with Denton County partners to develop a framework for outreach and relationship management with landlords throughout the county as a means of increasing access to housing. This barriers fund will allow for increased ability to recruit landlords as viable partners to agencies serving vulnerable populations. And will act as an insurance or an incentive for landlords to accept housing insecure clients they may perceive as a risk. We've seen, Austin has seen a lot of success in this. So similar to the way that we train and employ case managers to guide families through crisis. We've seen some really effective results from having someone quite essentially case managed landlords. It's a lot of relationship management. It's a lot of kind of educating them of, okay, this person may have this on their record, but they've got a support system here. You're not going to be left out hanging high and dry if there's damages to your unit. Not only because we've got some mitigation services here or mediation services, but we do have this pot of money to be able to say, you've got a double deposit for you or that sort of thing. So what you've all been waiting for. The Denton County homelessness leadership team is here today to- We've got a question. Yes, sir. Council member Hussbett. Well, and it may be for more of a question for council to get on speed, up to speed on what she kind of touched on regarding panhandling versus true homelessness or the combination thereof. I know council's kind of been talking about this for a bit. My question would be, what's been considered to kind of, lack of a better term, label those two or try to, I mean, so if someone's not homeless in panhandling, do we want to treat that different than someone that's truly homeless in panhandling? And how do we, what does that look like? You know, for me, just outside looking at maybe it's some sort of registration that forces them to then have some sort of documentation that says, not so much ID, but hey, I've registered and I'm present and accounted for, because there may be people that don't want to do that. So maybe it's motivation for them for us to start helping to track them. I don't know what that looks like, but curious. I think the chief may be up. Chief, you have anything you can add to that as far as just the status of that, what our current law is on panhandling and just some very basic information on that? Sure. We, so it is very true that a lot of people that we get pan handling or solicitation calls on are not homeless. But of course, under the law, we have to treat everybody the same to it, you know, upfront in terms of we issue warnings, advise them first, get them to move along. We have we have issued citations in some cases, and I have those stats if you're interested in them. We've we've very rarely do we actually make custody arrests on those. But the the main issue is, is that in terms if we identify someone as truly homeless, we do document it and track those. And so we can separate to a degree how many people are truly homeless that we've contacted and how many are not. And then if they are homeless, then we kind of go into a referral mode into trying to direct those people to the proper agencies to get them help. That help? Yes. Thank you. Any other questions? OK, now the moment you've all been waiting for the didn't can't homelessness leadership team is here today to request the continued support of this collective impact initiative, which includes the United Way of Ditten County Homeless Coordinator position. Additionally, the leadership team is asking for funding for an expanded initiative, which includes two staff positions to support the continued implementation and maintenance of Ditten County's coordinated entry process and the landlord outreach efforts, which are currently in their initial stages of implementation. In reference to the request for support for the coordinated entry specialist initiative, I'd like to draw your attention to I think you're provided in your packet some information on recommendations made by the Human Services Advisory Committee for the upcoming budget year. And that committee is recommending that eighteen thousand dollars be allocated to the leadership team for the purpose of HMIS database support and training. And we can estimate based on previous use of these funds that about five thousand of that will likely go to cover HM IS licenses. So for some of the smaller agencies who can't afford the license costs for this database system, these funds can be utilized for that. In conclusion, I'd like to reiterate that as a county, we now have a system in place for getting people housed and rehoused quickly. We are working diligently with our community partners to ensure that we have a sufficient housing stock to meet the need. And we're also continuously working on increasing access to that housing through efforts to connect landlords and property owners with providers that can provide the continued wraparound services to some of these folks. It's a huge spectrum of need. Like I mentioned earlier, we assess them, we see, okay, these are the folks who could probably really benefit from an NCTC or a Denton ISD certificate training program to increase their income, to achieve a living wage to support their families so they're not repeat customers, if you will , to these services. And then you've got the folks who are going to need some more support. And that's where a lot of the coordination of our mental health services comes into play. Not only directing people to these resources, but also recognizing that as a county, we are one of the lowest funded counties in the lowest funded states for mental health services per capita for our citizens. And as our community partners would tell you, our criminal justice system is the biggest provider of those mental health services. So this is really largely a reference to our housing crisis response system, but it's even broader than that. It pulls in our workforce development initiatives, it pulls in our mental and behavioral health initiatives, and that sort of thing. I think there's a question. >> Mayor, go ahead. >> And then pass me over to you. >> Okay, how did you come to determine that these positions were full time needed positions? So the analysis that went into that. >> So for the coordinated entry specialist position, we've actually had a Maricopa Vista for the past year, who's been working 40 hours a week. To support implementation and maintenance of coordinated entry development. And she's been working 40, sometimes plus, hours a week to have this done. And she's become really key, that position has become key in supporting our agencies and ensuring that our data remains clean as a county. So being able to pinpoint where our weaknesses are as far as data entry and data tracking. And to really to continue to expand this initiative, we have what's called a housing priority list. We manage, and it really, we're in the process of further organizing that list so that it can be used by our providers. So that they can quite literally go in and see, okay, these are the folks that fit my criteria and plug them off. And it takes a lot of background work. I do not have the exact number of hours for you, but I know that to now we've had a full time, full time amount of hours dedicated to this, and with the next stages of implementation, we foresee continuing to need quite as many hours. And as far as the Landlord Relationship Management pilot is concerned, this is, so Landlord Relationship Management is something that ideally all of our housing providers would do, but they don't always have the luxury of time to do. As I mentioned, as they're working a family through their development plan and their housing stability plan, they're kind of more focused on immediate needs like food, transportation, and that sort of thing. And they don't always have the luxury of time to be more intentional about developing these relationships with these landlords and property owners. And so we foresee this position really acting as a liaison to not only allow our providers as a community to have more of a kind of united front, if you will, to allow for more clear communication of what's available in our community and what we're asking of landlords. But also, this person would be very knowledgeable of all the programs that exist, and they'd be working actively to network with these property owners. And then be able to quickly identify the best places to implement, to place clients in need of housing. But in reference to your question about the amount of time, we've seen in Austin that they've actually had multiple people employed in this position, and their community is considerably larger than ours. And given the fact that we've got two shelters and two rental providers that work closely with clients on a daily basis to get them housed, we figured that one position could support all four of those agencies in those efforts. >> That's it. Councilmember Gregory. >> Thank you, Mayor. Couple of questions. >> Yes. >> One is, are you asking any other cities or the county to help step up and provide funding? >> Yes, like I mentioned, we've got Sanger and Louisville represented on this leadership team as well as the county. And we are in conversation with them as to what resources they might be able to contribute to this. >> Okay, the second thing is, and I had already written this down, and then you already touched one of them. I was wondering about what some of the common misper ceptions or misunderstandings are about homelessness. And one of them is that panhandlers are often not homeless. Somebody's gotta explain more of that to me. But what are some of the other misperceptions that folks have that maybe hinder our ability to offer assistance? >> Sure, one of the most common questions I get is what about the people that choose to be homeless? And because some of the folks who are literally are chron ically homeless on the street are some of the most visible, that's the stigma that is assigned to people who are experiencing homelessness. But what we have found through our point in time count, which I mentioned is a volunteer led annual census of people experiencing homelessness, is that it is self-reported, but the respondents to that survey often communicate that they, if they do have a substance use problem or issue, that it developed after they became homeless. I think one of the major misconceptions of homelessness is that someone is an addict, therefore they become homeless. And while that may be the case for some, our data doesn't show us that. Our data shows us that really these folks develop a substance use disorder as a coping mechanism in a lot of instances, to their life living in a tent in the middle of the woods. It's a different way of life. And after a while, if you have a mental disability that keeps you from holding down a full time job or maintaining those support networks, you adapt and life becomes, it just becomes a different way of life for you. And so a common misconception is that we've got a bunch of drug addicts who choose to be homeless and they want to live in the forest. There are a couple of those, our police usually know about them. But really what is really highlighted in this data is also kind of just the lack of substance use resources. We've got really one main provider of substance use treatment in our county. And they have a limited number of beds for folks who don't have insurance or a way of paying for it. If you're a veteran, you're lucky enough to be able to access a facility out in Bonham free of charge to you to get clean and get back on your feet. But really it's very difficult for folks in our community to stay in a community where whatever support system they do have still intact exists, achieve that sobriety and then achieve that stability. >> So the percentage of people who are choosing to be homeless is significantly small? Do you have a number from your surveys? >> I do. Well, I don't know if I can answer that quite necessarily. I can tell you that 9% of the folks we interviewed or surveyed reported having a substance abuse or addiction, substance abuse addiction. Another thing I wanted to point out was when we asked them, why are you homeless? Why are you experiencing homelessness? About 18% we found reported that it was due to unemployment . And then if you look at another one of our questions, which is what are some of the major services you need? The number one services that our citizens who are experiencing homelessness are in need of is transportation. So it's kind of one of the first times we were able to correlate, okay, we've got 20% of people who can't hold down a job. And that same number of people see transportation as a barrier. So that's something else that we're incorporating into our work groups is how can we kind of do an assessment or analysis of transportation resources in our community and how that's directly affecting people experiencing homelessness. >> Question. On these amounts. >> Yes. >> Is this the total amount? So the question that Councilmember Gregory asked you is, are you asking for contributions from other political subdivisions like the county and some cities? So this is the total amount. So anything that anybody else is contributing, that sort of all goes together to meet these totals if- >> Correct. >> Any other questions? When I saw this, of course I've had this conversation in private about, I know that sometimes I can get ahead of the game and I want to see results. But we're really to the point where we can do all these things, but if we don't have units to put these individuals in, this is really often not. >> Mm-hm. >> And the housing work group has done a stellar job on laying out the foundations, laying out the policies, procedures, applications, those kind of things. So we're really at the critical juncture of, and so my only question is, I mean, it's great to train more people on HMIS. The landlord relationship management, that's probably, I mean, if we can get somebody to try to solicit and get somebody to secure additional housing units. I mean, that, at least from what this, the Denton County Homelessness Leadership Team, that's what we were tasked to do is how do we provide more housing for rapid rehousing. And that's where we are. And so I think we've seen through this process that the barriers for the client, obviously, have been the things you mentioned. But there are barriers for the landlords as well. So when you talked about the barrier fund, you'd mentioned for gas, transportation, all these kinds of things. But I know that part of that fund down in Austin is used to subsidize rental rates that are market rates as to what somebody can either afford or what agency can provide. There's a way to help provide some of that relief. And is that part of what the concept of that fund is? I know we have a- >> Yes, that's more of the long term plan and that's where this landlord outreach position would be really key. And kind of working to develop the framework for how that would work. But yes, we have seen in other communities these funds being used, as you mentioned, to kind of subsidize whether it's rental assistance being provided through a housing agency or housing choice vouchers, section eight vouchers where they 're not enough to cover rents. We've seen communities use those to kind of buy down some of those rents if you will. And then yes, additionally cover late fees or offer a double deposit as sort of an incentive or an insurance for property owners who might be hesitant to accept these clients into their units. >> So hypothetically, out of these two positions, you couldn't get it all? Which one do you find- >> Don't ask me that. >> Well, I mean, I would like, I mean, you all are the ones that are in the business. >> It would be our coordinated entry. >> It would be our coordinated entry because it would be our coordinated entry. >> If you could come to the mic, I'd appreciate it. >> It has to be a coordinated entry. Until we have the people, the process, the data, the systems in place, and we're really working uphill. We have to. And we're not going to build our way out of this situation. We have two laborers. We work on education level and labor skills attainment through NCTC certificate programs. And we build what we can. In the meantime, Chief Howell and his staff moved the homeless problem around as best as possible to not mitigate the economy of the city. But really, we can't just build. We're going to have to increase earning power. >> When you say build, what do you mean? >> Housing. >> Okay. >> Housing. >> Okay. >> That matches the employability of someone with a high school degree, welding certificate, and two children . >> Well, I'm not even really talking about that. I mean, that's more permanent, either supportive housing or permanent housing. >> I mean, when you talk about rapid rehousing, my understanding is that's people who are homeless, what, not shelter, what unit can they be put in to have some form of stability, some wraparound services, and those kind. And that's, I mean, yes, we have this long term problem of affordability and those kind of things. But housing first is the buzz word you hear. So how are we going to, I mean, do you all not see that as one of the more critical needs in this whole process or? >> Yep. >> See, you have the complexity of housing that has other issues as well. >> Sure. >> So we're looking at occupancy rates too. So we're actually pretty high occupancy rate in the city, which means there are that many less units available. So it is a coordinated effort that we have to look at the different diversity of housing stocks. >> Sure. >> So some of it is building bricks and sticks. Some of it is cultivating landlords to increase the available housing stock and reduce those barriers. And some of it is looking at unique ways in which to create housing that's different. So it's a kind of a three-fold, which is why the coordinated entry position gives us this accurate data analysis that says what is that diversity of housing stock that we need that's so important. It will tell us, those numbers tell us specifically how many people need rapid rehousing, and that's the number of apartments we're going to need to house people in. So that tells us then how much we have to create and how much we have to cultivate from the existing stock. >> Okay, it's interesting in a community like Boulder, one of the things we saw in Boulder, given the median market value of housing, their community, their leadership team chose to take shelter capacity and turn that into rapid rehousing inventory and take a shelter stay where you might allow five days a week, etc., and you turn it into something that's more long term, and wrap those services around that facility. >> Okay. >> And that's an inventive approach to realizing that what you're describing is more successful towards moving someone out of crisis. >> Sure. >> Okay. >> All right. >> Good. >> Just one more thing to add to that. Second what Danny said. The data, as we pull it and we identify our major areas of need, our staff and our worker are going directly into those agencies not only to train them in how to use the database. But they're able to identify a need for increased case management training. Because the housing first is really great, it's effective, we've seen lots of really great numbers nationwide. You put someone in a house, you wrap them around with services, we're good to go. But it's a really big philosophy shift for our traditional forms of case management. >> Sure. >> And so it's a- >> Can I offer one more insight into that as well? So when we- >> You can do two if you have them. >> Yeah. I have a bunch actually. I don't want to take too long though. The reason we lost the emergency solutions grant was quite literally because we weren't able to move people from shelter to housing. So we scored about a 72% on the previous application which we didn't receive those funds. So we improved the process in the community based on the work that we've been doing and we've improved that score to about 82%. We just submitted that application. But that caused us to have to reduce the number of people who are actually serving. So that means more people are actually not going to receive services because every person we serve is going to have a path to housing. And the reason we had to reduce those numbers is because we don't have enough housing. So that's specifically the impact of that. >> Right. So there will be less people receiving services in the community if we receive those funds. But every single person we serve will have a path to a housing solution. >> And that's great and I appreciate that. So my question again is, so we get the coordinated entry, H MIS, which means we're going to create all this data. We're going to identify all these people who need rapid reh ousing or transitional housing or whatever type of housing you want to refer to. That's still, then the question still at the end of the day is, where's the housing? And how do we get that? So that's really, I believe that that will happen with an H MIS support and the continued. I mean, you've increased it from 27 to 300 clients and you 're going to, if you have somebody working on a little bit more training, more people, that's just going to increase. So then we identify these needs. How are we going to go from the theoretical of need identification to, now we have to find a door that they can walk through? >> Yes, so with the coordinated entry position, that's someone we need outside to support that. So we can support the overall with the landlord position. That's something we're going to do anyway, even if it's the agency's doing it in house. So that's going to happen regardless. So what the coordinated entry position does though is give someone who gives strict oversight over that housing priority list that we don't have. >> With the landlord mitigation or the landlord process, some of the agencies were already doing that. We will just have to do that more efficiently from the in house perspective. >> Okay, great. Any other questions, comments? All right. Thank you very much, very thorough. >> Thank you. >> First of all, great job to everybody that's been working on this for the past year or two years. >> Thank you. >> I mean, it's, when we went to Austin, it was a great meeting. At least when I was at the one in Austin, I suspect that the Boulder meeting was just as well. It went just as well. And I was encouraged because a lot of people have been working on the homeless issue for many, many years. Many, many different organizations. But it seems like we have more of a concerted effort to try to really combine resources, make sure we're filling the gaps, not duplicating services. And we're really moving down the path, at least from what I 've seen, better than what I had thought before when I went to Austin. And so I really do appreciate that. I mean, I appreciate everybody's commitment and work because it's a tough issue. There are people that really need help and I'm really glad that we have a community that has the compassion level to do that and the people who are committed to do that. So thank you guys so much for what you do. >> Thanks. >> All right, thank you. The next agenda item will be agenda item 3B. We go into our budget discussions. >> Receive a report and hold discussion to give staff direction regarding the preliminary FY 2017-18 proposed budget capital improvement program and five year financial forecast. Which ones will we be seeing today? Do we have specific ones? Okay. >> First, Mayor, I'm gonna go over the electric utility and the solid waste utility. >> Okay. >> And then we'll have the departmental presentations under the third item. >> And which departments? >> I don't know. >> Legal, economic, development. >> Legal, economic, development. >> Chamber of Commerce and Capital Projects. >> Chamber of Commerce and Capital Projects. Okay, all right. >> And City Manager's office. I don't want to forget that. >> That'll be about a three minute presentation. Okay. Thank you all for coming. Like I did at the last meeting, I want to go over the electric utility and the solid waste utility. These are recommended budgets that have come forth through the public utility board. I'll try to go through these quickly, but answer any questions you have. We also have staff members in the audience to answer any really tough ones. So in terms of cost containment, we tried to start off all our presentations with cost containment this year. We have vacancies in the engineering division of DME that they're choosing to fill with external services versus hiring those positions. We've had difficulty filling those positions. They also eliminated two management positions currently. Like we did with the other utilities, we budgeted salary savings. Debt service is lower than was projected because of lower interest rates. Some internally developed software and also some software to go to a more paperless environment. >> Chuck, real quick, on those engineers positions, you said you had difficulty filling them. What are just a couple of the, is it competitive salaries? Is it just there's- >> I think it's just competition within the metroplex area for those. Kind of when the economy hits up, engineering and a lot of information technology tend to be the two that are really challenging. So I think they evaluated and thought it would be better just to go outside, especially for stability. >> Sure, okay, thank you. >> In terms of, this is a table that we give each year in terms of kind of the red line is really a one 15 minute period peak. In terms of electrical demand within the city of Denton. And you can see a few years ago when we had a hot dry summer that the utility funds enjoy. You can see the peak was about 350 and we really haven't passed that in terms of megawatt hours. The blue line is the total usage throughout the fiscal year . And you can see that peaked also in that hot dry summer. And then we've really been a little bit below that since then. This breaks down the difference between megawatt usage, which is the chart on the left where you can see industrial customers in that light green at about 40%. And commercial at 20 and residential again at about 40%. In comparison to the number of meters or customers we have. You can see the blue about 88% is residential customers and that green category which is about 40% of usage is less than, is about one quarter of 1% of all the meters. So you can see the variance between meters and the actual usage. This just summarizes a little bit of growth factors from 2010 to 2016 in terms of customers, revenues. You can see the increase in substations and feeder lines. Positive is a reduction in outage events and the capital projects as they've geared up for the replacement of the system. I want to go over a few definitions and I apologize for council members who have heard this before. But some of the new council members, there's kind of some language they use in the electric utility. So when you talk about FERC, you're talking at the federal level, the regulatory commission. And then NERC, North American Reliability Corporation, which is really kind of responsible or the enforcement arm for the rules set by FERC. In Texas, we have the Texas Reliability Entity. And they've received some delegation in terms of monitoring standards within Texas. The Public Utility Commission, the PUC, really has the authority to review and approve the rate of return in transmission. When I get to revenues, I'll kind of talk about that rate of return for transmission that we receive. And then ERCOT, Electric Reliability Council of Texas, manages the flow of power throughout the system. And this is really where a lot of the transactions, purchases, and sales of electricity run through the ERCOT system. They're also kind of a clearinghouse, per se, a financial clearinghouse. So I'm going to go over their capital plan first before I go to their operating plan. You can see for fiscal year 17, 18, estimated about 100 million in the capital plan. And I've got a couple other tables that I'll show you. But just to let you know, under the City of Denton Charter, any unspent capital funds have to be re-budgeted each year. So while the capital plan is 100 million and another table or two, I'll show you what the planned issuance in debt is, which is going to be less than that. And so you can see the capital plan. >> Mayor Pro Tem has a question. >> Chuck, you said that under the charter, any unused funds from a prior fiscal year have to be reallocated the following fiscal year. Is that just with respect to utilities or is it across the board? >> Across the board. So for the capital projects within the city, kind of in your budget page that you'll see in the proposed budget, we try to kind of list out here's funds that we estimate are going to be available in the capital program at the end of the year and we re-budget those again, plus any new projects where we're issuing new debt or using revenue funded capital. >> Okay, I might get with you online because I don't know that I've seen that re-budget line item, so just remind me. >> Yeah, and I'll make sure I highlight it during the budget process when we get there. >> Thank you. >> And this just kind of displays that a little bit when you look at the actual dollar spent versus the capital budget for that fiscal year. This includes the generation facility. So during a five year period, you can see the actual we spent was 228 million between 2012 and 2016. And I think part of this comparison was some confusion in the community in terms of the capital budget versus what we 're actually spending. And this next table simply gives the same information but backs out the generation facility. And here we have the detailed categories for 2018. I did want to point out when I was talking about the capital budget, but the difference between what we're issuing and the capital budget. You can see the capital budget for 17, 18 is a little over 100 million, but you can see our bond sale is 54 million. And you see that COs of 97 million, so those are projects that are carrying forward into the current fiscal year. Most of the capital projects take over a single fiscal year to complete. And I'll also mention that we kind of estimate that conservatively. We really look during the April and May time frame and say what's still remaining. And conservatively, let's budget all of that even though some of that may be spent at the end of the fiscal year. So these are the major categories of expenditures and you can see the large ones in terms of distribution. Feeder extensions and improvements, distribution subst ations. And then in terms of transmissions, we have substations and transmission lines. We'll get into this a little bit when we talk about revenues, but the transmission system really is seen as serving all of Texas. And so all of the electric entities in Texas pay a proportionate share of that transmission system. So when we build the transmission system in Denton, we get return or revenue in from other entities throughout the state to help support that system. >> Question from Mayor Pro Tem. >> Is that included in the revenue line item? >> Yes, when I get to the revenues, I'll get to that transmission cost recovery. >> I'm saying in terms of this particular slide. >> No, in terms of that revenue, that's cash funded revenue where they fund a little bit of their capital out of cash. They try to fund some of their vehicle replacements out of cash. So that's actually cash funded capital versus debt funded capital. >> Okay. >> And aid in construction is just from developers where they contribute toward what's necessary. And this is just a pictorial display of the improvements in terms of fiscal year 2018 through 2022. And I think in your backup, I'd given a second document that gave much more detail in terms of the capital program. >> Council Member Briggs. >> Regarding this map, I'm having a hard time getting my presentation to pull up here on my iPad. But so the inner circle of the city of Denton, the outward circle, that is completely the DME served area only, right? >> And I'm going to look over toward the electric utility experts to come help me with this map and answer that question. >> Hi, Council Member Briggs. >> Yes, the green circle, the inner circle, was the 69,000 volt transmission system. And the eastern portion and northern portion of that has already been converted to 138 kV. The outer red line is the 138 kV system that TPA owns. >> Okay. And the outer circle, everything within that circle is DME service only, correct? >> For the most part, there are some areas of town that are dual and triple certified. >> Okay. >> So we do have a service availability map that's different than this that shows all the public utility commission service areas. And I'd be happy to get that to you. >> Okay, I'd like to see that. >> Okay, certainly. >> Okay, thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Brad. >> Yep. >> In terms of the operating budget, this is kind of summarize what's proposed. No base rate change is proposed for the upcoming year. When we talk about the transmission cost recovery factor, and I'll go into definitions of these. But this is really the money that the city of Denton pays into the statewide system, the statewide transmission system. And we break that out on the bill separate. You kind of got a base rate and ECA rate for your energy cost and a transmission cost recovery factor. So we're trying to match that with our actual cost, so that 's proposing to have a very slight increase. >> Quick question. Now I know that in the past, I think even some of the literature I've seen, that DME had anticipated rate increases. I thought it was a 4.5% or something like that, but that's been changed a year or so ago, realizing that, I mean, I guess what you're saying is we're having a 1% rate decrease. I don't remember that necessarily being forecasted. So is this an improvement from what has been forecasted in the last year or two, or am I missing something? >> I think this is a bit of an improvement, correct? And I'll show you here, we're looking to draw down fund balance for the last year, a portion of the last year of the TMPA payment. So we're drawing down fund balance, but also recommending a 1% decrease. I think in the past, I'd seen it about flat or a slight increase. >> Right. >> And part of it is, I'll go over in the five year forecast, but part of it is kind of leveling out those decreases over time. So we thought we would start with the 1% this year, still do a little draw down for the TMPA, and then I'll project the future years where we're showing about 2% rate decreases. >> Okay. >> And just as a highlight, there is a charter requirement that a management study be done of DME every ten years. So there's some funds budgeted for that required management study in 17, 18. In terms of kind of some of the definitions for revenues, base rate is kind of the portion of the rate that pays for constructing and maintaining the system, if you think of that's your proportion of the system. The transmission cost recovery factor, and that's really the portion that we receive from entities outside of Denton for our building of or our assets in the statewide transmission system. And so when we increase the transmission system, we get back a rate of return on building that asset above what we're paying debt service in terms of that. The ECA is the energy cost adjustment and it's related to the portion of the electric rate for power purchases. >> Yes, go ahead. >> Regarding the ECA, is there any way to have that posted on the DME website? >> In terms of what the current ECA rate is, I'm sure we could update the website to do that. >> Is that also not on our bill? Is this ECA rate on our bill? >> I think the bills kind of come rolled together. I mean, they're calculated that way, but I think how the bills come out- >> I'm thinking maybe I'm thinking of the gas bill. >> Those are lumped together. >> Okay, all right. And the TMPA coverage return, TMPA as part of billing the entities every year, they have to have kind of working capital. So at the end of each year, they return a portion to each. And I bring that up because you're going to see, as we leave TMPA in 1718, a significant drop in that. And then the transmission cost of service is what we receive from other entities. And I'm sorry, on the transmission cost TCRF, that's what we pay for the system in the state. T cost is what we receive from the others. I apologize for that. In terms of what we propose for the upcoming year, you can see total rate revenues. A little bit below what we have this year, mainly you can see a reduction in ECA revenues because of the lowering of the ECA rate. And then that TMPA coverage return, you can see it drops down significantly from about 8.5 million here to 0.8. So that's really funding that we pay to TMPA and then receive back each year. And because we're going into the last year of the debt payments related to that, the coverage return drops. >> So on the expense side, there should be something that correspond, and there may be a slight delta of a net increase. But what you're saying, I mean, that looks like, we're losing all this revenue, but we have a corresponding expense. So then in proposed 2017-18, we're not going to have that expense either. So it sort of nets out with maybe just a slight increase in revenue. Okay, all right. >> And then you can see that revenue we receive from the distribution, or the transmission system is going up to 20.2 million. That's been growing. That's really because of the additional assets we've put in terms of infrastructure, in terms of transmission lines and substations that we get that return. And then we've kind of got other revenues, including interest income and other miscellaneous revenues. In terms of the expenditure definition, purchase power and fuel is really buying electricity. Transmission of power is the expenses to transmit through this system within Texas personnel services. Operation and maintenance includes things like our tree management program, tree cutting, replacing aging or damage poles. The return on investment and franchise fee is what the utilities pay to the city's general fund. >> Mayor Pro Tem. >> I'm still on transmission line. >> Okay. >> So on slide number 14, you put that TCOS revenue is estimated at 20 million. >> Correct. >> For the coming year. And then on slide 10, there's capital requirements, cash requirements for the CIP. And I'm looking at item, it's group 12, 13, and 14. The distribution system upgrades, substations, and transformers, which comes out to 29.5. Is that not the transmission cost to us? >> Well, this is the capital cost of that, but we get that TCOS revenue over the life of the asset. So we get an amount every year. So we put an asset into service and file with that. And then we get a value of that asset on an annual basis plus a rate of return. So think of it over like the life of the asset over the 20 to 30 year debt service, where we get repaid for that debt service plus a rate of return on that asset. So it's more over the life of it versus a one to one. >> You're referring to items 12, 13, and 14. >> Yes. >> That's distribution. That's distribution. TCOS applies to the transmission lines and transmission substations, which is 45 and 46. >> Okay, so all right, that's helpful. Thank you. So the TCOS are at, is that also a fixed asset that would, I mean, the capital cost and ROI would apply to the TCOS as well, 45 and 46? That's paid to the general fund. Yeah, it's based on those revenues in the electric utility. >> Well, I guess I'm trying to figure out if we're getting about 20 million per year, and let's say that we're factoring in a 20% increase of revenue from transmission every year. This is saying that we have 190 million in transmission tot als over five years. And then the distribution totals are like about 90 million. So I'm trying to figure out how it is that we're coming ahead. Maybe I just don't understand it based on this graph. >> Well. >> You caught me with a Hershey's milk chocolate in my mouth. >> I understand low blood sugar, so. >> It's just addiction. I'd like to write it off as low blood sugar. Well, in the way, and that's a very good question, those are good observations. Because I think in some ways, the way this gets approached is the transmission systems are almost, I don't know how else to say this, it's not necessarily presented this way. But a standalone kind of business enterprise, in other words, you're building transmission lines. You're incurring debt service, you've got other kinds of costs. But then what's coming back is this revenue, this T-cost revenue. So, but that's for the whole transmission. I mean, that's transmission debt that we had ten years ago. We're getting this T-cost revenue, so we'd almost have to see a separate of, here's how much our transmission system is costing us, and debt service, personnel, operations. And then here's the revenue from the T-cost. How does that all, does that make any sense? I mean, I think, because it sort of gets all jumbled up, but somehow it's pretty simple. It's just T-cost goes to transmission. >> I understand the question. And I think the best way for us to do this is to break this out for you and to bring it back as an analysis. You can see all the transmission costs, what the rate of return is, and how that is factored in over that 20 to 30 year period. So we can break this down and show you those pieces where you'll be able to see that return, because that's there. I think these numbers include some cash, some debt, there's other components to it, and other projects that have potentially been changed in prior years. So we'll bring that back to you, show you the complete analysis. >> I mean, with the transmission costs, aren't the distribution, substations, and transformers, isn't that an essential component of transmission? I mean, you can't have transmission revenue without the distribution center and the transformer and the substation. >> There's some components of the substation which would be considered transmission cost and some of that that's more on the distribution side, so we can break those details down for you. >> And Brent, if you wouldn't mind just coming in, because I think it has to do with how does ERCOT delineate these. As far as what they say is allocated towards transmission. So if you could just give a very brief description, how do we know what's transmission related that we file with a rate case for transmission costs and what's simply distribution? >> Certainly, Mayor. Brent Heath, Energy Delivery. That's a good question. The transmission is defined as anything 60,000 volts and above, 60 kV. And so in a transformer, if it's a 13.2 as in our distribution voltage, that component and bushings of the transformer are not transmission related, they're distribution related. The high side, the 69 kV or the 138 kV side would be transmission cost. >> Okay, so it's really just a capacity, voltage capacity. >> It's where they draw the demarcation point. >> So what that means is in a substation, some of the construction and some of the facilities in the substation are subject to some return for transmission cost. But the other side, the low side, is part of distribution and it's not subject to any kind of a return. >> Yes sir, that is correct. It's typically 67 to 70% of the cost is eligible for transmission, cost of service. >> Is that helpful? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Pass them the grades and then pass them on to me. >> So speaking of T-cost, when we were discussing transmission upgrades, there were a lot of right of way issues that we had. And is this where the refunds, the T-cost refunds for that right of way that we purchased are included in here as well? >> The right of way procurement costs for easements is for transmission lines is part of the transmission costs. And so thus it is eligible for reimbursement through the T- cost program. >> Is that reimbursement reflected in this budget? >> Yes. >> In this capital budget? >> That $20 million, yes. >> That's what that is. >> As well as the rate of return for not only the easements , but everything related to transmission costs. >> Is there a way that we can see the amount that we spent on right away for this upgrade and the amount that we really got back? >> Yes, absolutely. >> Okay, thank you very much. >> Councilman Ryan, is this for Brent or someone else? >> I'm not sure who can answer on this. >> All right, we'll just- >> I've got two questions based on this chart here. One is on the vehicles. We're at 1.3 for next year and then we hop in up over 2 million and then we're down below a million again. Can we perceive that in 21 and 22 that those numbers will change as time goes on? We just have it planned out or why do we have this big bubble in the middle there? >> I'm looking at the budget staff over here in terms of which vehicles are needing replacement. >> Okay. >> [INAUDIBLE] >> You'll need, sorry, Mary. [LAUGH] >> She didn't get to speak there. >> We're replacing a lot of big bucket trucks and things over in those two years that are really large, but as a year approaches we'll ree valuate whether they need to be replaced or not and then so those numbers do kind of change. But there's some big equipment being replaced in those years and I think in the packet that we sent you, I think there's a list in there. If there isn't, we can provide that to you. >> Yeah, it's broken down by which department or which segment it's in. And my other question relates to that is on street lighting , it's classified as distribution, I'm wondering why street lighting would be considered a distribution item. >> Mary can't get out of front of that voting fast enough. >> Once again, that's a very good question, Councilman Ryan . Yes, street lighting is served from the distribution system , which would typically be 120 votes or 240 votes, voltage wise to serve it, which is less than the 60,000 vote transmission definition to be considered transmission. >> Okay, but we've got, I mean there's O and M and there's other areas of in our backup, the breakdown on it was pretty significant. Is how many different categories add up into this? Cuz I looked at that first and when I got into the vehicles , I'm like, well, here's 20,000 here and 40 here and 100 here. I was glad to see this chart where it was all put together on the vehicles. >> Right. >> But it just, I guess I understand, but it seems kind of strange for it to be part of distribution for street lighting. >> Yeah, it's because of the voltage that serves the street lights is less than 60,000 votes. And so therefore, it's part of the distribution category. Anything, category code 45, category code 46 would be transmission related items. It would be anything above 60 kV. All the 69 kV system and all the 138 kV system. >> Yeah. It'd be a pretty big light, 60,000 volts. >> It's looking bright. >> Yeah. All right. >> Oh, Councilmember Briggs. >> I have a question about this slide before he changes. >> Okay. >> Disclin, on 25, new residential and commercial, that is customers, brand new customers. >> In terms of new residential and commercial service? I believe so, but I'm looking for confirmation over there in terms of building what's necessary to serve all the new customers on 25. >> Right. >> Where it's going to come from. >> Yes, the new residential and commercial customer section of the distribution section is what we anticipate for new residential development, which includes houses, apartments, any type of multi-family residences, any type of commercial industrial development. So the residential commercial would incorporate all of those that are expected to come into the town. >> I may have missed it, but do we have a breakdown of that ? What percentage of each? >> There is a map that should be in the backup packet that shows color coding, what is residential, what is multi-family, and what is commercial. We expect this next year for 2018. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Okay. In terms of revenues, these are just what's in the proposed budget. In terms of total revenues, the coverage return, T-cost revenue, total of 173.7. That really the big changes are the 1% reduction in rates, bring down rate revenues a little bit, and then that coverage return drop. In terms of expenditures, I think I was at return on investment and franchise fees are paid to the general fund based on a percentage of DME's revenues. These are paid by all of the city's utilities to the general fund. Debt service, cost of service is really those payments by DME to other departments, mainly technology services and the general fund. And then fixed assets, any cash expenditures above 5,000 out of the operating. So in terms of cost, Mayor, you were talking about that drop in cost, where we don't get the coverage return from TNPA, but we estimate a lower cost. Because of lower payments to TNPA, you can see the drop to 79 million. Transmission is the payments we make to others within the state of Texas for use of the transmission system. So you can see we're paying 5.6 million out. Personnel services, O&M. The major driver of going up is the operation of the energy center. It's projected to come online initially during the summer of 2018. Debt service, you can see the increase in debt service cost . Cost of service is paid to general fund and technology services. And you can see a little bit of drop of that and fixed assets about 700,000. So overall, expenditures of about 181.1. And I mentioned this is the five year forecast. Let me- >> Chuck, just a couple of questions on that last slide. Council Member Briggs and Gregory. >> So you said the operation and maintenance increases from the energy center. So that is specifically, that increase is for that only? >> The vast majority of that increase, yes, is for the operation and beginning operations of the Denton Energy Center. Really there, and there's a little bit of increase in personnel services, are the main two areas where we've got some cost related to the Denton Energy Center. Now the offsetting of that is the purchase power and fuel. Some of those decreases are because of the estimated operation of the energy center next summer. >> And on the debt service, it increases. Is that part of the Denton Energy Center? >> Well actually for 17, 18 we're capitalizing interest where we issued debt and paying the debt service out of that debt issuance. So on the five year, you'll see the debt service jump up in a couple of years. I'll show you that, and that's really mainly the additional debt for the energy center. We've also got additional debt issued each year for the capital program. But the majority of the increase is for the energy center. >> What we see here? >> What you see in future years. Really this is mainly an increase from debt service that we 've issued for the overall capital program. >> Okay. >> Well, so we'll go to the next slide. I'm looking at what you have now is you're estimating revenue at 173.7. You're estimating cost at 181.1. Now the way I figure it, we're in the red, 7.4 million. But I don't see that on the proposed 2018. >> Right here where you have this plan use of reserves. >> Okay. >> If you remember. >> There it is. >> The discussions about the TNPA debt was that we kind of built up some fund balance over the years knowing we would have to draw some of that down to pay off the TNPA debt. So what we're proposing to do is draw down by 7.4, 7.5 million during the last year of the TNPA debt payments. >> Okay. >> So while we're proposing a budget that is not balanced, we balance it through our reserves. Where is, in the total reserves state, the total reserves don't seem to be going down by 7.5 million. >> Well, from here to here. The actual reserves were about 76 million. >> Okay. >> In 2016, we're estimating at the end of 2017 to be at about 72 million. And then we're dropping down here 64.5. >> And our goal for reserves is 60 to 75 days and we are significantly above that all the way through. >> Correct. >> In your projections. >> Correct. And in these out years, I'll talk about use of some of these reserves in future years to potentially reduce capital or pay down some debt. And if you'd like to, I'll jump over to that. But there may be some other questions before I get there on just 2018. >> Got a question. So on debt service on this slide. >> Correct. >> Or even on the slide before. That is a combination of all debt service. Distribution debt service? >> Correct. >> Transmission debt service? >> Correct. >> If we have any kind of bonds for vehicles or some this is all the debt service that is incurred. >> Correct. >> But that does include the transmission debt service. >> Correct. >> And so if I'm not mistaken, you showed that, go back to the slide that showed the revenues, the sort of basic. >> Yeah, the 20.6 million. >> And that was over, is that a year or is that a? >> Yeah, that was what we estimated in 2018. >> Right. >> Was the, I'm sorry, 20.2 million estimated there. >> And so then on your detailed budget slide, in 2018, your debt service is proposed to be 34 million. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> So we'll try to do a breakout and try to break out, here's the transmission portion of that debt service which should be below that 20.2 million. So that's where- >> Yeah, that's where- >> It covers the- >> It's offsetting some of this other debt service. >> Correct. >> So predictions had been that as we move away from TMPA and start up the Denton Energy Center that our rates were going to start decreasing. Is this about as predicted or are we seeing these increases , rate decreases happening sooner than what we had predicted? Or is this about on time? >> I think it's, I think at least the 1% decrease in 2018 is a little bit sooner. >> Okay. >> I think some of the, I'd have to go back and peak. But I think some of the rate increases were a little bit further out. >> Yeah. >> Where I think they've moved forward a little bit. But I think these are generally what we were looking at in terms of 2% rate decreases going forward. It may just be starting a little earlier. >> Okay, thank you. >> Councilmember Riggs. >> Under the projected 2019 category, can you explain the standalone 28.6 million? Please. >> Yeah, let me go forward. I wanted to highlight that. >> Okay. >> But I wanted to highlight a couple other things , and I promise I'll get to that. You can see the big decrease in purchase power as we go into the Denton Energy Center, where we're buying much less off the market. And I should say the way, let me explain this. The way ERCOT handles, anytime the Denton Energy Center were to operate, that electricity would go into ERCOT. So that would almost be like a sale of electricity. They give us a credit for that, and then when we buy electricity, they charge it. So they somewhat net it. So we're not going to see, here's the revenues we get from selling electricity, and here's the cost we buy. It's netted through ERCOT. So that's really one of the reasons you see that purchase power and fuel kind of go down significantly. Instead of me showing here's revenues from the Denton Energy Center and expenses of that, ERCOT nets it when you go into the system . So I wanted to highlight that. >> Because there's two different systems. I mean, ERCOT has a settlement system. One is we're settling with people who are buying from the grid. We send them a bill. And we're settling with people who provide energy to the grid, and we send them the bill. But then it's netted somewhere for those who are in situations like ourselves. Okay, it's just not set up the other way. >> So I wanted to point that out beginning in 2019. And the other thing I want to point out is debt service in this 28.6. So you can see the debt service is 34.4, and it ramps up. 2020 is really the first year where we have the complete principle and interest for the energy center. We pay interest in 2019, but we haven't made the first principal payment. It was kind of ramped up to make sure in terms of budgetary . So what I've proposed here, and there's several options. But you can see during that year, because debt service hasn 't ramped up, we would have a very large profit without that. It still shows a net income of 7 million. That 28.2 is if the council wanted to take the scrubber debt that's still out there, and completely defuse that, that's what the 28.6 represents . Those bonds are callable on February of 19. So I know in the past the council has had a desire to kind of take off the TNPA related debt that we had on our books, and that would do that. The council can look at funding more of the capital program with cash versus issuing debt for the full capital program. Really a lot of different options. But I just wanted to put that one there as a potential alternative. And you can see going forward, even with those rate decreases, that we're projecting revenues above expenditure. So the council may want to speed up the rate decreases and have them go down even further than that 2%. Do some defeasance of debt, do some cash funding of the capital program. Are really all alternatives. What we're really gonna be adopting is the 17, 18 budget, but I wanted to kind of give this five year look. So everyone kind of had an idea of what it is going forward . >> Mayor Pro Tem. With respect to the defeasance, that's our portion of the scrubber debt, correct? >> Well, it's the portion we issued that the city actually issued refunding bonds to pay our portion of the scrubber upgrade. So those are bonds that are on our books, not TNPA's books. That's why I talked about the city being able to defuse that debt. I think it pays out through 2024, so this would really be taking the last five years out of that debt when it becomes callable. >> And what type of refunding bond was issued? >> It was a general obligation refunding. >> Okay, but if we were to defuse on that debt, it would be paid from utility revenues? >> Yeah, it's paid from utility revenues now. When we do a refunding, if it's a general obligation, the proportion that relates to each utility is administratively paid by each utility. Just like when we issue certificates of obligation, they have a property tax pledge plus a revenue pledge. But they're paid for administratively by each utility based on the proportion of debt that was issued for that utility. >> Maybe if we could get an informal staff report about interest rates, what a five year payout would look like versus a 2019 pay out. And just kind of have a little bit more data points. >> And I'm not proposing we do any of that this year in the budget process. I'm just giving that as an example. We'll give that information. >> For future reference. >> Yeah, because what you're saying is, in these out years, 2021, 22, under the debt service, in this particular presentation, that 28.6 has been removed if somehow we said, we don't want to defuse it, we just want to pay it out to 2024. Well, obviously, those debt service numbers are going to go up. >> Correct. But if you used it to use cash for part of the capital program, that might offset some of those debt service payments too. But this is just an example as to the impact. >> And just as a reminder, we use GOs and COs for utility debt because we had lower rate and better bond rating. And we used that delta of savings to help fund the street. So yeah, be sure and include that historical context for that in your report. >> Any other questions on the five-year projections? Before I sneak forward, I've just got a couple of tables included in here like we do for the other utilities in terms of where our rates are at. In this one here, I know it's a little bit harder to look at in terms of reading it. But in terms of the colors, COServe is in the yellow, kind of some of the commonly known electric providers. Some of the big corporate ones are in the purple. And the other providers are in the blue. I think this second one is really a better one to look at where we've kind of got some of the other city-owned utilities out there. And this is just projecting where our rates will go with these projected 1 and 2% decreases. You can see Georgetown, San Antonio, Austin, Brownsville, Garland, COServe, and some of the other cities here where our rates would go in terms of competitiveness over time. Councilmember Gregory. So those numbers are our projected rates. Other than the 2017 is the current rates. And then 2018 is projected. So 2018, 2019, 2021. And they're compared with the other city's current rates or their projected rates? Their current rates. OK. So do we have any notion if any of them will be lowering their rates by 2% a year over the next several years or their projections to raise? When people collected this information, do we know that? Yeah. They tend not to share those things too much. But I don't think we know of others that are planning it. When I look around the room and see nods, we're not at least aware of others that are planning to decrease over time. So chances are that when we get to 2020 or 2021, those other lines are going to be significantly-- are going to look more different. They would. The only others that might change is any of the others that are in TNPA, like Garland and Bryan. They may have more impact after they leave TNPA. OK. Thank you. Yeah. That would be interesting to see. Yeah. Can you go back to the chart previously? So the municipalities aren't included in this. Are these just private utilities as well? And that's separate? For the most part, Courserve is on there. But these are kind of the power to choose if you go onto the website and look at where-- if you're in an area where you can choose your provider, these are kind of those off the website. Now, some of these that are on the lower end tend not to be as stable or long term rates. You can't lock in for several years at those. These are kind of a month to month. And sometimes you purchase them. And then in a few months, they go up. But it gives an idea of kind of where we're at versus the power to choose. But currently, according to this chart, we are the second most expensive out there? Yes. Question on that. So in these rates that are included, because I've just had to get-- I have a piece of property outside of Dent, so I had to get another electric company. Well, they're quoting you your kilowatt rate per hour. But then you have a transmission rate. Then you have all these other kind of rates. So if we're just going out to a website and saying, what is your rate, in our rate, it's all in. It's your transmission. It's your maintenance. It's all these other things. So do we know that these other rates are comparative in that regard? Or are they just the stated kilowatt rate for just what the energy provider is selling, not including what the transmission and all those-- because there's all kinds of different breakdowns. It's all in. OK. All right. OK. Good. OK. That's all I have for the electric utility in terms of presentation. Any other questions? Yes. I have a question that I skipped over on the second page. It refers to saving on debt service. I just kind of had a general question, because we did kind of discuss refinancing bonds. I was wondering what type we refinanced and into what we refinanced them into here. In terms of that, we've refinanced some of the certificates of obligation into general obligation refunding bonds. But again, they're paid by the proportionate share of each utility the refunding bonds are. But we've refunded COs into general obligation refunding bonds in the last year. Two years ago, the prior year, we refunded the outstanding revenue bonds into general obligation refunding bonds. Any other questions for the utility? I guess budget presentation. The good news is when we do the-- and I'm going to go over the other one. When we do the Thursday presentation on the total budget, we will have gone through the utilities. So I'm going to be very brief on those. I'm trying to go through those ahead of time. Trying to find the positive there, Mayor. [LAUGHTER] Mayor, does that mean that Chuck is only promising 1,000 slides on Tuesday? I think so. I'll try to keep it at least within two digits. In terms of the solid waste and recycling fund, I'll go over the revenue growth. What's that projected on? It's a little bit different than we initially came back to the council in April. They try to set a goal of debt service coverage of 1.25 or greater. There is some cash funding in the solid waste utility. Not nearly as significant as in water and wastewater. But they set a goal to try to cover heavy duty equipment with 50% revenue funded, light duty 100% revenue funded. When I get to their capital program, I'll show you that they're projecting no rate increases for the next four years. And I'll go over their five-year plan. In terms of some of their cost containment, in '16-'17, we reduced their debt sale by about $9.5 million, which was originally projected. We did the same kind of process we did with the other three utilities and kind of went through on a line item basis for reductions in line items and reduced from what was in their initial budget proposal. And from '16-'17 to '17-'18, by about $620,000, we eliminated two FTEs in the fund and kind of reduced their communication and service equipment expense. That's their kind of communications between the trucks and dispatch. In terms of future risk and mitigations, the Mosley Road landfill, which is an old landfill of the city that was on property that's outside the city limits, there was $3.2 million available. In the capital budget this year, we put another $3.2 million for funding remediation of that landfill. And they're currently evaluating the options for that. We're moving toward final approval of the solid waste permit amendment, where we have more property that's allowed for solid waste purposes. And they're evaluating any need for contractual agreements with some of the wholesale customers, some of the folks who just come and use the landfill services that are external to the city . Just real briefly, we've kind of updated the growth scenarios from what came to the council. I think it was back in April. So you can see these lower assumptions in terms of growth rates, residential customer growth as well as growth in some of the others. I'll jump right to what's called their baseline forecast in terms of the five year beginning with 2018. And we do have a little bit planned use of reserves drawn down here. This is really so we can budget those funds that were received from the landfill when DME made a land purchase to put a substation on property that was owned by the landfill that came over as revenue and they'd wanted to transfer that to capital but hadn't budgeted it in the current year. So we're budgeting a drawdown or a transfer of that kind of one time revenue over to capital. And in terms of collection revenues, which is from mainly from commercial residential customers, I'll go into a little bit more detail of that and other revenues, you can see their expenses with an increase in debt service of about 1.6 million, a little bit of increase in their franchise fees, their transfers including transfers to capital, fixed assets, asset and O&M. You can see at no rate increases, this is kind of flat for the five year period, you can see a little beginning to draw down the fund balance, they're working capital target is 52 to 66 days. You can see they kind of come to the lower end of that. So like with the other utilities at least in the five year forecast, we're showing in one of the out years potentially a need to increase rates just to stabilize that but again it's five years out. Really what we're talking about is no rate increase for the current fiscal year. In terms of their revenues, I won't go over all of them but you can see residential and commercial and the landfill gate are the majority of their revenues, some recycled material, you'll see one here, this alternative fueling station, I know there's more discussions of that later. This is really where with the fueling station even the landfill staff when they're refueling would have to use a card to do that so it's kind of revenues and expenses so it's an offset but the fueling station would have to track it that way. Here's a breakdown in expenditures with the largest being personnel services and operations and debt service are the largest, the general fund cost of service and the cost of service, the other cost of service is mainly to the fleet for maintenance of their fleet as well as technology services. And you can see this transfer to capital projects when I talked about some cash funding of vehicles, that's in that transfer to capital projects. And in terms of total personnel, you can see the decline from 16-17 to 17-18. >> Can you go back to the next? >> This one? >> To the revenues? >> This one? >> Yes, from the actuals in 15-16, there was quite a big jump in revenues on the sale of process recyclable materials. Do you know what that is, what materials those are? >> I think some of that is a projection from some of the landfill mining as well as just other materials that are received but I think a lot of that was a projection based on the landfill mining in terms of the materials that are pulled out of that, not only recyclable materials but dirt so. >> Yeah, Chuck is absolutely correct and it's one of the areas that we're looking into a little bit more depth right now to make sure that those numbers are numbers that we can rely upon in the future. >> Okay, thank you. >> Yeah. >> In terms of the five-year capital plan and I should also state with this, this is initially as we went through the budget process, I think this is going to go through some additional levels of scrutiny and maybe the changed or reduced during the year but just kind of what's currently planned. You can see the Mosley Road landfill and facility improvements is a large project in 1718 landfill infrastructure and additional cell is a large one and refuge and other vehicles but again we're revenue funding that plus a portion of the other capital. You can see the revenue funding plan down here as a portion of the 11.6 and then debt issuance in terms of five-year and 20-year depending on the life of the asset. >> We have not been paying that kind of money for the Mos ley Road landfill mitigation or improvements in the past, have we? >> I do not believe so. >> No, that is a special number, that's a number that's been put in for a special project where there could be some necessary remediation to that landfill. There have been some concerns about leakage in the landfill and so Ken Banks and his staff are taking a look at that trying to get their arms around exactly the scope of the project but right now that is our best estimate until we get some successful engineering and continued discussions with TCEQ. >> I was just wondering if that's something that at some point folks are going to have to, we're going to have to continue with our current landfill or if the technology that we're using and the strategies that we're using now are so much more improved that that would not necessarily be an ongoing cost after the cells are all used up. >> We can certainly get back to you on that and I'll ask all this candidate staff to put together a quick note in terms of how that number was derived and what they foresee with our current cells in terms of future maintenance. >> Thanks. >> All right. >> And I should mention from an accounting standpoint, we 're required to kind of estimate what's called closure, post closure expense based on the current environmental requirements and put those funds away on an annual basis. So within the landfill, we have a closure, post closure fund with several million in it and we're required to report to, I believe it's TCEQ every year in terms of that so that we have the funds available when it's time to close a cell that we have the funds available to do that under current environmental standards. This is the residential rate comparison in terms of Denton 's rates. You can see them kind of in green in the middle and in terms of the darker, the darker blue and the darker green are large containers and the lighter blue and the light green for Denton are kind of standard containers in terms of that . This is really just a comparison of those for containers. Each of the cities has different levels of service and different types of services they offer but this just gives a comparison across several cities. >> Is that for both trash and recycling together? >> Correct. >> Okay, thanks. >> And with that included, I know that some cities, there's a separate charge for yard waste or large item pickups or hazardous waste and that's part of our bill. So is this really an apples to apples comparison? >> It's not 100% apples to apples. That's the part that makes it difficult. You know, some communities say, well, we'll pick up, you know, a certain amount of waste that's outside the container but over four cubic yards, there's an additional charge or household hazardous, there's additional charge. This is more really just kind of the published rates. >> Okay. >> So we may include some more services or higher levels of service than others do. >> The reason I ask is because of the fact that we have part of our city limits that goes almost up to Lake Ray Roberts. We're offering trash pickup to people outside of the city limits since the truck is going up that way anyway and I've had several people that have talked to me that have gone over and started purchasing the city services because they were cheaper and they were, we included more services than what their private provider was. So, which is why it sort of surprises me to see the comparison here and it may be that we're comparing only with other cities and they're concentrated and so they can, it's not as costly for them as when they 're going out into the hinterlands. >> Yeah, and this is only other cities. We're not comparing with private providers that provide, you know, services out in the county or those kind of things. This is just other cities' published rates. We just try to go to the website to get this to be honest with you. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And that's it. >> Questions? >> We'll take about a five minute, ten minute break. We'll just start on another presentation. >> We'll come back at about 3 10. Good afternoon. Wanted to welcome you back to this meeting of the Denton City Council on Tuesday, January the 25th, 2017. It is 3 12 p.m. Moving on to our next agenda item which is Work Session Report 3C. Receive a report, hold discussion, receive departmental presentations in preparation for the FY 2017-18 proposed budget. We're going to sort of take a different order I think. We're going to have economic development and then the chamber, board members and executive director and economic development. Leah, what's your official title? >> Vice President. >> Vice President. I'm sorry. That's my big faux pas. Sorry. I owe you one. We want to get them up and out as quickly as possible instead of sitting through some of these that I know they're very interested in our budget presentation but they can always review them via the MNAT. So without further ado. >> Good afternoon, mayor and council members. I am Caroline Booth, the director of economic development with the City of Denton. I'm going to quickly review our departmental budget presentation for you. Something a little bit different with our presentation since our folks from the chamber are here today, I wanted to start off with a quick graphic overview of what the city and the chamber's responsibilities are as we work on economic development under the partnership. And you'll see that there are some things that land in the city ED realm and some that land in the chamber ED realm but then we also have joint efforts that we work on together. So under the city's responsibilities we have requests for proposal responses and those are the RFPs that come from the governor's office of economic development as well as the Dallas regional chamber. We have the main street and downtown programs in the city department. We work on workforce development with our workforce development partners. We provide technical and advisory support for local businesses and other city departments and other entities like the universities or other governmental bodies. We also administer all of the existing incentives for the city of Denton and our office serves as the liaison to the economic development partnership board, the board for the downtown TIFF and the board for the West Park TURS. As far as the chamber EDs primary responsibilities they take the lead on marketing and lead generation contacts with site selectors, brokers, folks who are out at trade shows and conventions and meetings as Adam the VP of economic development travels he meets and establishes relationships with those folks. They also handle the economic development partnership website and social media accounts and the EDP investor relations. The primary things that we work on together are prospect development and that's after we've identified a prospect we will work together to coordinate site visits or answer questions that they might have. Business retention and expansion is very important and we do coordinate on that as well as small business development programs which you'll hear more about from the chamber. They do some specific things and the city does some specific things and we try to work together on those. As far as the FTEs in the city's economic development department we have 5.75 FTEs. We do have one person who is a three quarter time person and you will see that there is a decrease between last year or I'm sorry this current budget year's number of FTEs versus the next year's FTEs we had there was a position that was budgeted to be involved with Stoke and we have changed around the way we're doing that and do not need that extra FTE for the coming budget year. This is a quick overview of our small department. You can see there the structure as the director I do have an administrative assistant who helps support me and the department. We have a business development officer, an economic development specialist, the downtown program administrator and an economic development analyst and I do want to take just a second here to recognize the economic development staff. They're very dedicated, they're very professional and they truly do care about doing their jobs with integrity and they care about the health of Denton's economy and the success of its businesses both large and small and the quality of life for our citizens here and I just appreciate them and all of their efforts. Goals and accomplishments for our department. So Sally Beauty Supply expanded 80 new positions and a renovated interior of an existing building here in town. We located MedTrans which is a helicopter ambulance service . They're nearing completion on their building at the airport . And we also located up venture which is an online platform for booking outdoor adventure trips and sharing the various photos and videos that you take on your fun trips with your other friends who like to take adventures. So they're great. MedTrans actually came up here, a relocation from Lewis ville and up venture was a relocation from Frisco so we're very happy that those folks are here in Denton now. We hosted our first Taking Care of Business in Little D small business seminar during small business, national small business week in the spring and we had about 25 attendees for the first year. It was a free seminar that was provided to the business community and we were pleased with the turnout, had some great classes for people to come to and we're hoping to expand the attendance in that next year. We also moved the Governor's Office of Economic Development and Dallas Regional Chamber request for proposal responses in house and we created our little quick response team across a couple of key departments to respond to those and we're developing a resource library so that we can streamline our response and get those turned around as fast as possible. We completed the second and final year of the Economic Development Partnerships Strategic Action Agenda and we completed 140 business retention visits or calls. Some of our goals for 17-18 are to revise the 2016 City of Denton policy for tax abatement and incentives, finalize our new incentive contract templates and initiate community outreach, education and engagement activities. We're also going to be instituting some new performance measures which you'll see on another slide. As far as our current performance measures, they're listed here. I'm not going to read them all off to you but I do want to point out that some of these performance measures are indicators of the economic situation in a community and they're not so directly affected by the actions and the way that our staff spends the majority of our time. So when we develop the new performance measures that I'll show you, we had in mind that we wanted to really try to account for and measure and influence things that we had the ability to do that with, not necessarily the percentage rate of unemployment which anything that we do is not going to move the needle on that a whole lot. Maybe over 10 years it would but not from a year-to-year standpoint. So we'll still track all of these performance measures and indicators but we're going to be adding some new ones. So the proposed performance measures that we have fall into certain categories. We have the first category of recruitment and we'll be looking at the number of RFP responses that we return in target industry sectors and that's going to be a baseline calculation for this year because we haven't tracked that before so we don't really know the best way to judge what's a normal amount and what's not . So we're going to baseline that this year and then set some percentage increase goals the following year. We can have control over the submission of our RFP responses, how quickly we can turn those around and then we'll also baseline conversion of RF Ps into prospects. And so this is when we return an RFP and then we get a contact back from that whether it's for more information, wanting to have a site tour, anything that's a further contact beyond just the submission of the proposal. In the category of business retention and expansion, we're separating business retention visits that are done within downtown and outside of downtown and we've also further defined what a business retention visit is and that's something that's proactively set up by an economic development staff member and it's kind of a formal , you go to the business, you sit down with them, you ask them a certain set of questions. We have separated what we're calling business assistance, which would be a less formal, you need an email response to something, you call and we give you information. So we're separating that into a separate category from those type of visits. Under workforce, as I said before, we have partners that help us with our workforce development, primarily in CTC as well as UNT and TWU. And so what we want to do in our office is connect those workforce development people with our local businesses so that we can address their current needs for workforce training and also do some projecting into the future. What do they think their needs are going to be for employee skills and training down the road and so that we make sure we're supporting those kinds of training programs and education programs with our workforce development partners. And then we also help make the connection with workforce development grants that are available through the state. So we'll put businesses in touch with people who can help them make those kinds of applications and get training dollars brought into their businesses. Under small business, we would like to see a 10% increase in business participation in our small business programs, which include the Shop Denton program, which is primarily an educational program that merchants participate in to help keep sales tax dollars local. We also have Shop Small Saturday, which is the Saturday after Thanksgiving where people are encouraged to shop small and locally as opposed to whatever they do on Black Friday. And then we also have, as I said, the conference, Taking Care of Business in Little D, that was held in the spring, and we'd like to see an increase in the participation in that. Caroline, before you go on. Yes, sir. Oh, didn't catch you down a couple questions on this slide. Sure. In the recruitment section number one, oftentimes RFPs, I thought those were done jointly with the chamber, but did we split that out? In other words? We did split it out last year. So they have a responsibility for all the RFPs that don't come from the governor's office or the Dallas Regional Chamber. So they're still doing RFP responses. We just split the responsibility. Okay. And we have a, I guess we have a set of criteria when we say conversion of RFPs into prospects. Obviously, there's some kind of factors or activity or something that defines when do they go from being proposed to a prospect. I mean, if it's just, we might be interested. Is that a prospect or is it once a site visit? No. Okay. I think that we've kicked around defining it. I think site visit is a safe way to define it because that means that they're very serious. Sure. But we do track every contact that's above just a turnaround of an RFP. Of course. And then in business retention, and is downtown defined as, is it just the DTIP area? Is it the TIF area? It's the DTIP area. Yes, sir. So my question on that is, you're allocating the same number for downtown as you are for outside of downtown, which is the rest of Denton. Right. I know. That seems a little... I understand. And I've had the same thought. We only have one, we have one person who is dedicated to downtown, which is a smaller area. But our business development officer is the person who handles business development visits outside of that area. She takes the lead on those. And there's only one of her two. So we're going to see how this goes. Ideally, we'd like to have more outside, but it's a little bit of a staffing issue because she has all of the workforce development responsibilities as well. I mean, I know that downtown is a smaller area. So is there not some way that the person who's doing downtown, if they, if we had more opportunity for business retention outside of downtown, that there could be some of that picked up there as well? I mean, it's just a thought because to me to only have the same amount doesn't make sense to me. Okay, I understand. It's such a larger area. Not to say you should reduce the downtown. I'm just saying... No, I hear what you're saying. And we can have some discussions about how we might be able to shift that number up a little bit. But one thing to speak to that point about the downtown development person working outside of downtown, one of her goals that we've determined for this year is to actually start a business support program in the Fry Street area, similar to what has been done to help educate merchants and support them specifically in that area. So she's working on setting up an initial merchant meeting right now. Well, I was surprised by the number two and it's because under the goals and accomplishments for 16-17, I saw 140 business retentions. It was, that was either visits or calls. And that's what I, when I said earlier, we've redefined what a business retention visit is. That's not a call. Business assistance is calls. Business retention is actively going out to the business. So that's why we've defined it, put a more reasonable expectation on business retention visits, and then added a new category for business assistance. There've also been times when a business retention visit actually included members of the economic development partnership board. That might be a different kind of visit. Because I've, when I was, the five years I was on that board, I went to several of those, found it very educational and it was always helpful. And they seem to appreciate having council members there. Of course, the question that I always asked first off was, what can the city do for you? And generally their response was, oh, let me tell you what you've already done for us. It was very educational for me to see what, how they were already appreciative of being here. Do you have any kind of a goal for a number of those kinds of visits that would include council members and EDP board members? No, we don't have a goal for that, but we always think really carefully about who joins in on these retention visits. So, and- Must not have been thinking too carefully when they let me go. See, we're doing things differently now, Dalton. Well, that's true. No, I think some visits definitely lend themselves to having more people attend, whether it's EDP board members or council members. And frankly, some don't because people want to keep it a little more low key. They feel like they could be a little bit more open if there aren't five people in the room and they're kind of talking on a staff level. So rest assured that we do think carefully about who attends those and we do like to include folks beyond the staff level if it's appropriate. Okay, thank you. You're welcome. Anything else? Do you have questions on this one? Okay. Okay, under downtown, and this is a metric that we have had in the past that we're carrying forward again, this is the number and increase in value of redeveloped properties in Denton. The thing that's a little bit different is that in the past , it's just been the number of redeveloped properties. And again, this is a little bit more of an indicator. We can provide assistance, we can provide connections for people to get their questions answered within various city departments. We can support them with downtown reinvestment grants in the case of certain projects. But what we have added is we want to make sure that we're looking at the increase in value of the redeveloped properties and kind of, and that's something that we have tracked, but it's been in a little bit of a different format. So we're pulling that into our departmental performance measures. Customer service, this is where we roll in that business assistance provided where if we have drop-ins to the office, if we have phone calls or emails that we're helping folks, we're going to be tracking that here. And then we're also having a goal of completing the statistical trends and news of Denton report within five working days of receiving all of the data from the different departments. This is a very popular report, people really anticipate it coming out and we want to make sure that we're staying on a good schedule with getting that completed and published. In the realm of incentives, we're going to, and somebody pointed out to me the other day that these are slightly redundant, but I didn't take them off the slide. Anyway, net revenue generated by incentives, total net sales tax collections generated by incentivized projects and then total net property tax collections generated by incentivized projects. So the last two kind of roll up into the first one, but we want to make sure that we're separating those out and can see how they're performing separately, those two different types of revenue that's generated. Here is a summary of our departmental efforts for cost containment. We're a little bit different from some of the other departments that provide services or have large capital budgets, but we have done some things that I think increase our efficiency and conserve staff time by improving communication and coordination and collaboration across departments. So we've been having monthly meetings with economic development, finance and legal, and that's yielded some great results in terms of stream lining things, making everybody aware of issues that are forthcoming and talking through things that come up. We are doing some cross training between economic development and finance staff in terms of incentive administration so that we've got some folks who are a little bit more familiar with what some of their colleagues do in another department . We also have been focusing on internal cross training with economic development staff within the department, and we've had a couple of lunch and learn events between economic development and development services to just become more familiar with the roles that different people play in the departments and the kind of information that we need to be watching out for and exchanging with each other as we see projects come across. Karen, I have a question. Council Member Hussbett. Thank you, Mayor. Speaking of incentives and kind of talking to some local smaller business owners, I know there's thresholds for what qualifies. Is there any way I could get like a breakout? What -- because I'd like to see what we can do for a smaller business that may not bring 100 jobs but may bring 10 that's homegrown that would plug in. So, for example, I'm driving a pickery and there's a couple of empty spaces. You know, just what the city could do to -- because that's a complaint I hear often. It's our concern. It's more, hey, the larger corporations can -- are afforded this opportunity, but a smaller business here in town is not afforded equal opportunities or anything. They don't fall into a slot. So I'd like to see what those rules are, what kind of guidelines direct that activity to see what options are available for. Because I think it is a need. I mean, I think those things can grow to be bigger companies, bigger contributors, given that opportunity. Sure. I would be glad to get you that information. I'll follow up with an email. But two things that I will just quickly say is for our tax- based incentives, like tax abatements and tax rebates under chapter 380, the minimum threshold of capital investment is $5 million. And I heard you refer to that kind of threshold. So 5 million is the minimum for that. Our two programs that are really directed at smaller businesses and, you know, these are not the answer to every small business person's needs, but the ones that exist now are the downtown reinvestment grant, which does occur within a defined area downtown. But we have been having discussions about how we might be able to expand a similar program to other areas. And then STOKE, the coworking space, is a resource for small businesses in our community as well. And it's not a grant, but it is a place that offers reasonably priced office space. If you need office space, it offers the opportunity to cowork, you know, on a desk. Instead of having to purchase an office, it provides a lot of mentoring and other types of business support and resources. So those are two things that are available for smaller businesses at this point in time. Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Yes, go ahead. A couple more that we ought to mention is that we also help support and provide rental space for the small business center. Development center. And they're going to speak more about that during their presentation. But that's city money that's helping. Yes, $11,000 a year. Yeah. And I've talked to several small business owners, I think the kind that you're talking about, Mr. Hedgespeth, that are, you know, seeking for advice on a business plan, getting ready to go to a bank to get a loan, and they go there to get advice so that when they go there, they are increasing their chances of being successful. And then even on a more micro level of getting businesses started is our support at the Denton Community Market, which supports makers, several of which have ended up in brick and mortar locations. I'm glad that you brought up makers because we also, something that I need to do a better job of making sure that I'm talking about is the North Branch Library has a lot of resources, classes, databases. They have a maker space called the Forge, right, in the North Branch Library. So this is another way that the city of Denton through a different department provides a lot of assistance and help for our local small businesses. So library's got great resources for that too. And if I may, so, but more what I'm thinking, and I may just be off, but for example, I spoke to guys over at Josadie, so they have 25 employees here, six figure salaries, but they're renting. And so in those instances, even before they've grown, it's not so much that they're spending five million, it's not so much that they're buying a building or that they need a business plan, it's kind of this industry that's a company that's up and running that is contributing greatly to our area that that contribution, maybe there's a way to partner with them to expand that further. And so that's kind of that niche, not that they're building a building and not that they're starting up so that they need to plan and get investment funds, it's more, hey, we're here and we're bringing in quite the contribution to our area, what can we then do to reciprocate and grow that exposure? It's a little different than that. We definitely want to foster the kinds of jobs that Josadie creates, those knowledge based and high paying jobs, and that's a gap that we have in our policy right now. And that's a gap that we're going to be trying to address as we work to revamp the policy during this upcoming year. So I hope to be able to share some ideas with you about how we might be able to do that soon. Okay. Completed projects as far as process improvements. You've heard me say a couple of times we have streamlined our response to requests for proposals by taking the governor's office and Dallas regional chamber responses in house. Future process improvement projects, we want to fully integrate total impact 2.0, which is our cost benefit analysis program into all of our RFP responses as well as our analysis of projects that are actually thinking about locating here. We want to have those incentive contract templates done with legal. We'd like to automate some aspects of the stand report and we've had some initial meetings with tech services about that. And then we do hope to receive supplemental funding for a customer relationship management system that would be a shared system with the chamber so that we could use that together. Yes. So on the RFPs, since we moved that over, do you have a number, have we received any directly to our office since we've split that up? Yes, I don't have that number at the top of my head, but I can tell you that this month we've responded to seven so far just in July. So they, and it's an interesting thing. There are ebbs and flows of those coming out. They seem to kind of all come at once and then disappear and then come back. But this has been a very busy month. So we've had a number of them and I'll make sure I can find the exact number and get it back to you. That would be good to hear. Thank you. All right. Here are the budget highlights. I just want to point out a couple of lines here. The miscellaneous line that you see there, about $340,000. That does include the general fund payment of about $62,000 to the chamber, as well as about $235,000 for Stokes operational expenses. That is where those things come from. And then in the operations budget, that $3.3 million number , I'm going to pull that out on the next slide and detail that for you. But that is a significant number because this is where we budget all of our chapter 380 payments. So those of you who are veterans now know that and new folks just want to point it out. So in the personnel services, is that just for the employees that we saw on the screen? Yes, ma'am. Any other questions about this one? Yes. How much did you say the Stoke line item was and the mis cellaneous? $225,000. $235,000. $235,000. Okay. So the detail on our chapter 380 rebates. There on the left side, you'll see all of our year one reb ates that are going to be coming on in the fiscal year 17-18. So these are new payments for this first year. O'Reilly's sales and construction sales and use tax. Since they're not open yet, I don't, I'm going to say this is primarily the construction sales and use tax that we would be, I mean, we're addressing part of that this year, but then some of that will roll into next year and then that will be the first year of their sales from being open. Okay. Sorry, I'm looking at Chuck over there. And then you'll see in the other column what we've budgeted for our incentives that are past year one of their initiation. And then I wanted to point out to you, their operations budget less the chapter 380 rebates is just over $101,000. Yeah. Well, and a couple of points. Denton Crossing, that expires when? That expires in 2019. Yeah, 2019. And the razor ranch is primarily the north side. Yes, sir. And that means I think our agreement is at 50%. Is it 50% each? I think is what it is. 50% each. So that means that the city is getting 1.48 million and there, whereas before it was an old torn down K-Mart. Right. Okay. That's correct. Oh, council member Briggs had a question. And as those roll off, let's see, I know coming up we'll have Bucky's rolling on or? Yes, but not in this fiscal year. It'll be at least one more. Any more questions about this one? Okay. So I also wanted to share with you the net revenue from incentivized projects with chapter 380 agreements just so that you have a little bit of a way to compare these things, what's going out versus what's coming in. So you'll see the 2016 net revenue , which again, this is the revenue minus the incentive that has come into the city. No, no, it 's just, yeah. Okay. And then the cumulative net revenue over the life of the incentive agreement. So just let you guys look at that for a second and let me know if you have any questions. Yes. And when you're talking about net revenue, you're simply talking about sales tax and property tax. Right. It's when I'm talking about net revenue, it's the property, it's the property or sales tax generated minus the incentive and what you're left with is what we're talking about. So it's just tax revenue generated versus tax revenue for gone. It's just easy hard numbers that you have available to use. Right. And so what we're hoping to get at with our total impact, a cost benefit analysis program is a better picture that more fully integrates all of the different revenue streams to the city from a project and all of the costs that a project brings to the city as well. Well, I think that would be interesting because it would, we hear reports from the travel industry where they project a visitor to town spending a night and spending X amount of money and how that then gets spent, I guess, one and a half times more so that the impact. And I'm wondering if we have those same kinds of things so that if I, when I can't see it up there, Tetra Pak moved their corporate headquarters here. That was 20 new jobs that moved in that had to have some type of an impact. Right. That, and there should be some accepted statewide federal wide calculation of a salary and the local, the benefit to the local community in terms of spending at local businesses in terms of sales tax, in terms of there may be some new homes that generate property tax. Do we, are you looking for that? Is that available? That's what's, that's part of what's factored into this new economic impact analysis software is the spin off jobs, the induced and indirect jobs that are created, the new homes that would be built given a certain project. So that's all factored into that. And you think about certain jobs like, like when WENCO came in, or Target, they have a lot of refrigerated air. They're buying a lot of electricity and that contributes to the ROI that the city gets from the municipal electric. All right. Plus franchise fees. Those are other hard numbers that we could, that we could see. Right. So that would be interesting to see in those calculations. Right. Mayor Pro Tem. Well, I just would caution like an apples to apples comparison. For instance, when Plano lured Toyota, a lot of the people that ended up moving to the Metroplex for that incentive essentially moved to Little Elm and some of the communities along the 3 80 corridor. So I don't even know that we could actually find out. I don't know if we can isolate the value of something like that for the city. So I would just caution that approach. So this model, this software that we've bought is used by hundreds of economic development organizations across the country. They're based here in Texas and we've been very, very pleased with the way they've worked with us to customize our model. So we're happy to have it. We think it presents a fuller picture of projects that we have on the ground and projects that might be on the ground in the future. Okay. That is the end of my presentation. I think we got all the questions during the presentation. All right. Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions? Well, I just, you know, I was looking through the agenda, so I just wanted to let everybody know that we're going to make a determination in about an hour, hour and a half if we need to get dinner. So just to let everybody understand that we're here as long as we all choose to be here. So yes, next presentation will be the Chamber of Commerce, I believe. Yep. Adam, come on up. Vice President of Economic Development. You bet. Chuck? I ask for the privilege of making the introductory comments . First of all, thank you very much for continuing to have confidence in this partnership. Thank you very much and I will owe combat pay to at least two of my board members who've been here since the United Way presentation. But Gary Henderson, Ellen Painter, Carol Ann Simmons, and my board chair, Jim Fikes. Joe Jester was here as was Rick Wick from our board. I would like to point out that every one of those people represent a Chamber member that also pays additional money to our separate Economic Development Fund. So when we try to talk to you about results, when we try to talk to you about what do we make them think, they have the same questions. So I assure you that. Also wanted to point out this is not the first time we have had an Economic Development Partnership. The first one goes back to somewhere in 1967- 68 when we had what was called the dynamic Denton phase and you've all seen the record album and Phyllis George was the highlight of that and they went on the show. Dalton, I think you were a sophomore at Denton High School at that time. Are you one of the guys that there is a band piece in the film? So I'm sure that must be you that's in that. Just for clarification, during that dynamic Denton phase, what's still standing today from that effort is what's now Victor Technologies and a nine-year result of that phase in the mid-60s is Peterbilt Motors and we have we can document that for you. Part of what I wanted to make sure we clarify to you, as expected, Caroline did an excellent job of kind of separating out our role versus her role and sometimes forgive me for my irreverent way of describing things but we're basically here to that with this partnership this allows us to do something than other than just respond to tire kickers. We get a lot of people come in our office and want to know what can the city do for us. Well we can't answer that question but the fact that you help fund our marketing efforts, we're able to target, we're able to look at things that fit our infrastructure, we're able to look at things that are compatible with existing industry, we're able to look at things that are meet up with the current labor force that's graduating from us and that's what this funding helps do. Our main job is sell dirt and buildings and that's pretty much what we're about and get out and make sure we're known . So we don't have anything to do with the public incentives, all that comes to you and that's through the ED board but we've always done that first phase. We were doing it in the 60s, we were doing it when I got here in 1982 and so that's what these investors over here expect us to continue to do. Just another real quick thing I've heard it kind of come up there seems to be a narrative. The money that you give or invest in the Denton Chamber's economic development operational budget is kept in a totally separate bank account. It is a totally separate budget. It operates on a fiscal year that you tell us what we'll operate on. The money these people invest in our economic development budget which goes to nothing but marketing and has nothing to do with operations is kept in a separate budget. The only money that on a regular basis that's standing that the City of Denton's money comes to the Dent on Chamber operations is $225 a month and that pays for bi-weekly payroll processing, quarterly tax filings, annual W-2 and W-3 preparation accounts, payable processing, monthly bank reconciliation, monthly financial statement preparation and ordering of basic office supplies. We have shared expenses that I'll be happy to go over with you but I think you need to hear more about the programs but the shared expenses go or paid directly from that operating account directly to the vendor and then supplies and products are accounted for separately. So I just wanted to make that clarification. Finally as Adam comes up here, our contract since it was started in the 80s is very specific about the marketing role we fulfill. We did a nationwide effort in 2013 to make sure we found an individual who could comply with what your ordinance said that we would provide for you and Adam fulfilled that role. Members of the City staff and City Council were part of the selection committee that made the decision to hire Adam. So having said all that, thank you again for the partnership. We think it's very unique, it's very work. I love going to my professional conferences and telling them about we do this together and I would probably either get us in trouble or I'll get us sunk but I'm just proud to say that three of you sitting in front of me right now have gone through leadership denting so thank you very much for that support. Adam, you want to really tell them the truth? Thank you. Hello Mayor, members of the Council. We'll start off, we have two full-time employees, a Vice President and one Administrative Assistant. We ultimately report to the Board of Directors, Chuck Carp enter is the President of the Chamber who is my boss and then you have myself and you have Karen Bunker who is not here with us today. Accomplishments for the '16-'17 fiscal year budget fulfilled the City Chamber contract based on mutually agreed upon deliverables with the City. Currently we have worked 42 prospects through our office with a response rate of 86% this fiscal year. Currently this year we are at 11 total site visits which as Caroline mentioned earlier that is one of the ways that we'd like to grade ourselves. You know, we get somebody in town we can set out a pretty solid prospect. Out of those 11 site visits, those came by way of nine different companies. You see them listed there. We gave each one a code name if it doesn't already come to us with a code name. So you'll see Peanut Butter, Southern Comfort, Rail Load and so on and so forth. Projects, the reason we have nine visits or 11 visits from nine different companies, that project Rail Load that you see on that second line has been here three times this year. We've this year also we assisted in the successful location of two companies that did not apply for city incentives which were Project P-Truck and Project Pacific which will create a total of 120 new jobs. That's Penske trucks and Pacific labs. We conducted all target marketing forums, conferences, events and professional development activities. Just to go over those, not in too much detail but TADC, Texas Economic Development Council, IADC is the International Economic Development Council, SCDC, Southern Economic Development Council which is all the southern states and we go and network with site location consultants that work in those areas. N EDCAR, North Texas Commercial Association of Realtors which we host a booth at with the Denton backdrop and represent ourselves to all the DFW site locators and consultants and real estate brokers. IAMC is the International Asset Management Council, the Dallas-Fort Worth marketing team which is a 12 county regional partnership where we go and they make appointments for us in other major metros such as LA, New York City, Chicago and Atlanta and we'll go as a group representing the area but then also we get to drill down and represent ourselves as well. Type 1 marketing trips is my own term. Those are basically trips where we go just as Denton. We market ourselves to site location consultants and CLEC level executives in other major metro areas. We pre-sched ule our own appointments. Site Selectors Guild, Area Development Consultants Forum, the Consultant Connect and the SiteLink Forum are other consultant driven events that we do across the country as well. Another accomplishment, we raised the number of private investors and the private investment in the partnership. We were at 59. We raised that number to 63 private investors. The contracted amount that the city gives us as a mandate to to maintain is $64,000, roughly $64,000 a year. We have raised that number right now to 74,000 currently. We have increased our involvement in social media and website activities which I will get to on a coming up slide. This slide here just shows the the site visits in comparison to the two previous years. So this year you'll see the 11 visits that we've had. There they are all outlined. Project Railroad has been here three times. So 11 total for the for the year this year. Last year we had nine total for the whole year. The year before that was five for the whole year. So you can see we've gradually gone up and I think a lot of that is targeting more site selection consultants. Examples of some of the contacts that we make from the marketing trips. I just picked out five of the ones that I feel were some of our top successes to meet with this year. The CBE Richard Ellis, consultant at Chicago who represented the Sally Beauty project here in Denton which created I think the baseline was 80 new jobs for the year. Cooperman Location Solutions, Scott Cooperman was the site selection consultant who represented WENCO who located here creating a minimum of 165 new jobs. We met him at the area development consultants forum. Site selection consultants for Penske trucks. We met at the IEMC conference in Indianapolis earlier in the year. That product created 15 new jobs. A representative from John's Langley Sals Little Rock Arkansas division who specializes in e-commerce. This gentleman also ran Walmart's distribution center site selection for 12 plus years. A representative from KPMG New York who I have worked a project with in the past and did locate it in my previous location. It was 75 new jobs. So we continue to market to a lot of the same site selectors but also new ones and a lot of these guys are the the bigger site location firms who represent global projects. Touching on our social media and website presence. Right now we're at 685 Facebook followers, 1198 LinkedIn, 1288 followers on Twitter. Facebook that is up 15% from last year. LinkedIn is up 25% from last year and Twitter we're up 10% from last year. Didn'tedp.com is our website URL. We're at 12,523 views for the fiscal year with 10,098 different users since the start of the fiscal year. While that number might seem low to a lot of you based on what a typical chamber or a city might get, that is actually a very good number from what I've been told from some of the website developers and other folks who track these numbers. You know it's a very niche market that we're trying to get in terms of the companies that are expanding and relocating and then all the site selectors who represent them as well. Those numbers there are an increase of we had an increase of 24% in hits this year, an increase of 25.6% number of users. Goals for 1718, once again fulfill the city chamber 80 contract, increase number of outgoing engagement and proposals, engagements and proposals I'm sorry, increase the number of site visits, increase website and social media activities by roughly 10% is our goal, raise the number of private investors and private investment of the partnership . Current performance measures perform the duties of the office per the city chamber annual contractual agreement. We act as the gatekeeper with site location consultants and prospect activity, conduct target marketing prospect development activities which I went over most of those and then also we do some advertising and other in-house lead generation tactics. Update and maintain the EDP website, social media accounts, all marketing materials and promotional items and maintain the ED partnership private investor relations which is maintaining that other private account and all the 63 private investors and our forums that we do for them. Proposed performance measures, perform duties of the office per city, sorry some of this is redundant, attend and participate in activities with local, metro, state, regional and international organizations stipulated in the annual agreement. Continue target marketing activities and attend as many of the site location consultant events and forums as possible, increase social media and web-based activities by 10% once again. And implement a CRM system with the ED staff through the city as budget allows. Adam real quick on the, on current performance measures number two, act as the gatekeeper with site location consultants and prospect activity. If we split up, if somehow y'all are doing RFPs or and whatever those are and then the city is the department is as well, does that mean that if the ones that are contacted by the city want to do a site visit , does that mean we don't coordinate that or I'm just when it says act as the gatekeeper, gate keeper with site location, does that mean also for the ones that the city has sort of initiated or how's that work together on that? I mean what happens on that? I'll let Caroline handle it. Okay are these just sort of that's you're the gatekeeper for those who that come through your office or? Can I add on that? When it gets to the point of a site visit whether it was an initial contact of Adam or an RFP that we responded to, we immediately notify each other and make sure that we're working together on it because we want to demonstrate our cooperation and make sure that we're bringing everybody to the table who can help get the prospect located here. Good thank you. Council Member Briggs. So on that with the number of site visits that you have and the number of site visits we have, did they overlap? Are they individually different? Individually accounted for? This number that I showed you earlier, the 11 for the year, was accounted for because just last year was or ties into this year was the year that they the city took the the leads from the governor's office and the Dallas Chamber in house. So they out of those 11, four were generated through the city, five through our office through site location consultants. Okay so this they were counted here. I'm just trying to figure that. Okay thank you. Sure thank you appreciate it. Department efforts evaluate and replace inefficient forums and conferences along with all other target marketing tactics. We're constantly analyzing some of the target marketing trips and events that we're doing and we replace those with with new ones that come up and things like that so the ones that aren't producing the results that we want to see. Focus staff solely on incoming prospects generated through marketing activities and from site selectors and brokers. Maintain a separate private budget to conduct additional marketing activities not specified in the public ed budget along with maintaining all memberships and economic development investor relations. Completed projects narrow down all marketing trips to the ones that have provided results in the past, replaced with newly advertised events. Consistently update and refresh marketing materials and other branding collaterals. That is an ongoing process. Updating and maintenance of the DentonEDP.com website and social media with up-to-date information. Future projects constantly analyze marketing results to make continuous improvements. Shared CRM system with the city ED department as budget allows and consistently monitor and update website and social media outlets. Oh sorry council member. So quick question on the marketing trips. Do you have an idea of how many those were reduced by? They weren't reduced. We replaced the ones that weren't really that weren't really producing results anymore so we didn't reduce the the number we replaced them with. Right I know I'm sorry the one that you actually went to. I thought that's what you were saying like instead of going to conferences you replaced those trips with just advertising at them right? Oh no no I'm sorry. We're still doing the same amount of marketing trips. It's just there were only I think three that we have replaced that weren't producing as good of results as they used to and I have a list of those I can actually send to you. But we're still doing the trips we just replaced the ones that weren 't producing results. Okay thank you. Expenditure budget highlights. You'll see the actuals for 14-15 and 15-16. And then this year and then proposed for 17-18. You'll see the the number requested for the year has stayed the same on the baseline. You'll see under the 14-15 and 15-16 year under special project marketing. You'll see an additional amount at the bottom that was money that was allocated for the website which we launched just about two years ago. Other than that everything is is pretty standard. There was just an administration a seven thousand dollar addition. Professional development was roughly the same. Marketing prospect development and then the small business development center line item for eleven thousand dollars is what Caroline mentioned earlier and what Chuck will talk about again on the on the next slide and then the 1200 dollars for the ED partnership board. Councilmember Briggs you had a question? Just clarification. So the administration is that for the two FTEs or is that for the three okay two the two FTEs. Thank you. Mayor Pro Tem. What is the ED partnership board line item for? That's for the ED partnership board meetings the the shared meetings every other month we host it at the chamber office. But what is it for? Oh food cost. Okay so six roughly six meetings a year. And then for small business development center that's rent that's paid to the chamber of commerce correct? Correct. I'm sorry. Yeah I have a slide on that. You have a separate slide on that? Yes. When you get to the slide. Yeah we'll wait on it. Sure were there any other questions on the slide? Nope thank you. Okay. No rent is paid to the chamber of commerce out of this fund . Eleven thousand dollars is paid to north central Texas college. It's never hadn't changed in like 10 years. We provide free office space to a full-time SBDC counselor who is an employee of NCTC. So that eleven thousand dollars is part of the salary. It's a it's a matching grant that NCTC pays back. We ask them for a report and and Gerard I was really glad when you brought that up because close to 70 percent of my members fall into the category that you're talking about. And so if this program did nothing else that mere eleven thousand dollars and what that means that we can provide as a service out of the chamber office to those little guys is incredible. So these were just a few of the happy success stories that allowed us to present produce or show that they're there. But we have a full-time person that is an NCTC employee that works out of our office and that's what the eleven thousand dollar comes for. Okay if you'll help me understand so eleven thousand dollars is given to north central Texas college. The check is made out to NCTC. And then NCTC does what? They return the money or they return? No ma'am they pay us it's paid to them to be part of a compensation for an employee of north central Texas college that is housed at the chamber office to be a counselor for small business. Okay. They're not even our employee. They're NCTC's employee. I just didn't you said something about a rebate or something like that and I didn't know what that meant. That's why I was asking. So there's not anything that changes hands between NCTC and chamber of commerce is what you're saying. NCTC is a member of the chamber? Sure. So I have another question for you about who funds the SBDC clinic. So it's as I understand it, it's through the small business development section of the federal government. US small business administration is the mothership if you will of the program . And they, if you've got the rest of the afternoon, the NCTC is a third line satellite of the Dallas county community college district which is a satellite of a region that goes all the way to east Texas. And so we're like the we're the office of one of four to provide these free counseling, entrepreneurial counseling to aspiring entrepreneurs. But the NCTC has the contract with SBDC which is an arm of the small business administration. Well, if you 'll allow me to, if you'll allow me to, are you buying this stuff? This is great. If you'll allow me to engage in a little bit of trade protectionism since we are talking about economic development. What is it that the SBDC does that going to a business attorney couldn't accomplish? Well, for one thing, it's free. Okay. And well, it's free for the person who goes there, not for the taxpayer who's paying for it. But go ahead. And it also is a guided, yeah, you want to argue whether it 's a capital versus that. We'd like to see it as a service that we're providing to any entrepreneur. I suggest you ask that question to Marcus Watson at Little Guys Movers if you want to approach it from that end. Okay. Thank you. You didn't like my answer so why do you engage? No, thank you. All right. Okay. Any other comments on this particular slide or? No. Chuck? Any other comments? No, I just want to make sure I'm getting the impression there's some apprehension about my response. Well, I think Mayor Pro Tem basically has said that she's gotten what she needs right now. I don't think she has. Well, but she's not willing to continue. So I would appreciate you yielding the podium. Thank you. You have it. And that is that concludes our presentation. Is there any other questions? Any other questions? Okay. Okay. Thank you very much, Adam. Appreciate it. You bet. We'll go on to now legal budget presentation with legal. He assured me it was about two minutes. Just kidding. Just kidding, Aaron. Okay. My name is Aaron Liao. I'm the interim city attorney who's providing the legal department budget presentation for you today. The city attorney's office, as you all know, serves as the general counsel for the city of Denton. We provide all transactional litigation and advisory services to in support of the city council, all the city boards and commissions, as well as city staff. We also review as to form and approve all the proposed ordinances and contracts and all other legal documents that come before you for approval. And we also provide the prosecutors to the municipal court that actually prosecute all class E misdemeanors, both under the Texas transportation code and the city code of ordinances. We have 14 FTEs in our department, and that's remained constant since the fiscal year 2014-15. That 14 total FTEs is broken down with nine attorneys and five support staff. This is the organizational chart for the city attorney's office. We are broken with the attorney ranks. We're broken down into two different divisions, the litigation and regulatory division, which is headed by Jerry Drake, our first assistant city attorney, and the transactions division, which is also headed by myself. And as you can see on that chart under the transactions division, we have a current vacancy, which we're trying to fill. That vacancy was a result of John Knight retiring in May. In addition, as serving as interim city attorney, I'm also fulfilling the duties that was formally performed by our former city attorney, who retired in February, the end of February this year. The accomplishments for this fiscal year, and a lot of the stuff that I'm going to be talking about is what has happened since I've taken over as interim city attorney. And one of the first things shortly after taking over, which was maybe a couple weeks after the city manager took the helms of the organization, is that we both work together to try to establish a close working relationship. And by this, I mean with the city attorney, the city manager bringing us in on different operational projects early on in the process so we can identify those legal issues and address them at that time, rather than at the tail end. In addition, as the next bullet point shows, that relationship has helped us to improve the efficiency and timeliness of the various contracts that come before you. Specifically with that, in the past, a lot of contracts and agreements and ordinances were basically given by the various departments to all the attorneys internally. And basically, it was hard to get a sense of the priority that each department had. So we have as two gatekeepers, one in the city manager's office, one in the city attorney 's office, that get all the requests, both the utilities and non-utility contracts and ordinances , and they prioritize that together and then go forward so that we can be very efficient and have a quick turnaround on the contract requests. We've also achieved favorable trial court victories in litigation cases that we've handled in-house, and there's three in particular that we did. In June of this year, all the attorneys in the office received their Texas City Attorney 's Association Municipal Law Certification, and what this certification shows is that the attorneys who have shown or demonstrated an advanced knowledge of municipal law. And because at least 75% of the attorneys received the municipal law certification, our office was also given a designation as a municipal law certified office. We've also assisted in negotiations for the acquisition of lands for Fire Station Number 8 and the New Airport Runway. We've also helped develop the city's new annexation periphery criteria ordinance, and the last three bullet points show some of the number of different documents that we've reviewed and processed. For your information, as far as ordinances, resolutions, and contracts, so far this year, as of early July, we've processed 624. Last fiscal year was 996. The number of municipal court cases that have been processed so far as of early July has been a little under 19,500. Last year, we were at 23,16 9. And then finally, the number of Public Information Act requests that we've processed so far as of early July has been around 510. Last year, we were about a little over 600. Go als for this year, we want to implement an internal performance measuring tracking system to evaluate staffing levels and efficiency. And in addition, since we are a service department, we provide services to all the other departments, we want to measure whether we are achieving a high level of satisfaction for all the departments in the city as a whole, and not just ourselves, but also our outside council's performance. And finally, we want to continue to achieve favorable results in pending litigation and reduce your litigation costs. The new performance measures that we are proposing is we want to track these performance measures for the individual attorneys. What we're seeking to do is to track the different types of cases or projects that the attorneys are working on. Just on a daily basis, we handle simple, intermediate, and even complex requests from the departments. Some are quick, some can be done in a couple minutes over the phone, on the phone or on the email. Others require extensive legal research or complex drafting. We also want to measure the time spent that each attorney spends on a project, and also which departments are making the requests. This will assist us in monitoring the individual attorney's workloads to make sure that if some are overloaded, we can transfer or reallocate some of the projects to other attorneys who may have the capacity to help out. The next performance measure that we are implementing is a client satisfaction survey. We want to know how are we doing. We've not been able to, in the past, we've not had a measure such as this, and so we are working with the Lauren Barker in coming up with the actual performance survey to send out to all the department heads and managers and everyone else that interacts with us on a biennial basis to measure our performance. Are they satisfied with what we're doing? The same thing goes for our outside counsel. Under the charter, they're an extension of our office, and we want to make sure that they too are providing very satisfying performance for us as well as the costs that they charge us for their services. And finally, we also are going to implement all the matters or some type of measuring system to track all the matters that have been assigned to outside counsel. Previously, when we 've, with outside counsel, the tracking of what was going out to them wasn't very great, but since taking over, we've gotten a handle of that with the city manager's assistance. And so now all the requests that come in are from the departments to our department wanting outside counsel services. We're reviewing that and determine whether or not, you know , is it a project that we can't handle? Do we have the bandwidth? Do we have the expertise? Or do we send it out? So we're trying to impose some sort of a justification on the departments before we use outside counsel services. And for that, you know, that's a way that we can try to, again, reduce outside counsel costs. As far as cost containment strategies, I've already touched upon the increased efficiency of the city's construction. We've seen a timeless of contract review earlier. We've also created contract templates for real estate and economic development matters. And that is, and that was also shared by you by Caroline during her economic development that she's working on finalizing those. We've also brought all the real estate transactional work in house. And this is basically, you know, I'd like to commend Larry Colister and Trey Lands ford for helping get, you know, the work done. And the last is what I've just discussed is increased monitoring of projects that are referred to outside counsel. These are our budget highlights. And there's two items on here that I want to address because they've probably caught your eye. The first one is the increase from fiscal year 2014-15 to 2015-16 with regards to the materials and supplies. There's about a $20,000 difference. This difference is attributed to what was formerly budgeted as a fixed asset, which is our legal publications, periodicals, and books. That explains the $20,000 difference from 2014 to 2015 fiscal year. The other one, which is very, very glaring and obvious, is the operations of 2014 and '15, which showed $454,000 and then it's dipped since then. Every year we put a line item budget for outside counsel or outside consultants, and it's typically $180,000. Going back to 2014-15 fiscal year, we all know what was going on at the time. And that was mostly about $412,000 was attributed to outside attorneys, which assisted us during the gas well phase. First, it was the gas well ordinance rewrite in the summer and early fall of 2014. Then the fracking ban petition and election subsequent to that when it was passed, we were sued by the Texas General Land Office as well as the Texas Oil and Gas Association and the former in Austin, the latter in Denton District Court. Those litigation costs in that case. And then after that, House Bill 40 was adopted and we had to go back and revise our gas well ordinance amendments again to be House Bill 40 compliant. That explains the majority of the costs for that year. You'll notice in the following year, even though our budget was approximately $202,000 that we estimated for 2015-2016, it was only $75,000. With that, I'll take any questions. Thank you. So on those cases, legacy cases, and either manage -- I assume I know the answer in house, but those that are vended are, you know, handled outside of outside counsel. Do we maintain that data? So for example, we pay them, they review their work product, we maintain copies, and even after the case is resolved, they roll that over to us? As far -- let's say we hire -- let's see, I'm going to give an example that might answer the question. If we engage an outside law firm to handle litigation for a particular lawsuit, maybe we're conflicted out. And so we would have the bill ings that they send to us and their legal bills. We'll also have all the pleadings they filed, copies of that, and we keep all that information. And then if the case is resolved and settled, we'll also have those documents. So yes, we keep that internally. Do we have ready access to compile some type of a report to you? No. That's one of the reasons I propose performance tracking measures for outside counsel to be able to accumulate that information, to have it readily handy so that we can put it together for you upon request. Well, moreover -- so for example, Bob that works for the City of Denton, we process his laptop for a particular matter outside counsel's handling the matter, but they need to review electronic data, that sort of thing . After the case is resolved, do we maintain that data to build some sort of archive? Versus having to do it again, right? If the same issue were to come up again, I don't know that we can get it from them, but at the conclusion of a particular case, do we maintain that information that may or may not be used in the future? And that's a good question. I'm not exactly sure. I'm not going to speak for the IT director who basically tracks all the metadata. Every time that we ask for computer information and say that we're searching for emails of a particular individual in connection with a lawsuit, they will track that information, get it, compile it for us, and then we keep and then they provide it to us. What they do upon conclusion of the lawsuit, I do not know whether they keep it for record retention purposes or whether it's basically deleted because we already have it on the server. I don't know. That's a question that's better asked for the IT director. Okay. All right. Thank you. Moving quickly. Presentation capital projects. Do you want the good news or the bad news? No. Good news is I'm going to do my best to get you out of here for dinner time. The bad news is I had-- The bad news is I'm going to cut you off long before then. No, I had 120 slides and only 12 of them made it into your background. No, I do want to let you know that I've asked for a work session item on the August 8th agenda to update you on capital projects, specific projects. You 've seen the nature of these presentations. It's about the department, about the money, and things like that. So if you do have questions about specific projects, happy to take requests. I'll get you those answers on August the 8th. Okay. Great. Thank you. So these are the departments we're talking about in the functional areas. We're talking about the real estate group, public works inspections, development review, which is currently assigned under the planning department, and the engineering staff, the engineering design staff, and project management staff. Not this quick out of the box. Go ahead. So real estate, is that real estate lawyers? No, that's Paul Williamson and his staff of real estate agents that work for the city. Agents, okay. Yes. Well, not real estate agents, as in you go out and buy it, but yes, they're working in the real estate area, processing all the real estate related transactions. Right. Well, my question was, since we just had legal, I was wondering if there was overlap there with, yeah. Yeah. Good question. Thank you. Okay. And the answer to that question is no. Yeah. Other questions about the staff? Staffing numbers. Here's the structure that we're talking about. So I'm the capital projects director, among some other functions that I have. There's the dotted line for development review engineering, currently reporting to the planning department, but public works inspections, Greg Blackstone, real estate, Paul Williamson. And you see the font is a little bit different under the word engineering. We had a new city engineer that started yesterday. Todd Estes started yesterday. So I had to last minute change to change it. And no, he was here earlier at one o'clock to try to meet some folks, but we got in a little bit late. Okay. So we'll have him come back to the next meeting. So that's the structure we're talking about. Sorry if I go through some of these kind of fast. I'm trying to get to the exciting part, which is the process improvement part toward the end. Yeah, we can read this. Right. Which is what I'm a little more passionate about some of the things we're trying to do to make us a better capital projects department. But some of the accomplishments you can see there, design build of a couple of roads, right away acquisition for some tech stock projects, exceeded review deadline goal of 95%. 27 developments assisted the parks and rec department reviewed numerous projects, etc. So, so numbers and measures of things that got done. Some of the goals looking a little bit forward, processes and procedures related to the right away management ordinance. There's quite a bit coming at the city of changes in the right away and of different entities that can put things into our right away. So we're working hard on trying to have the forms, the processes, the design criteria, things like that, that allow us to do that in a controlled managed way. We finalize and begin some construction is our goal for Eagle Drive drainage and for the Magnolia Street drainage project along with a couple of roads Windsor and Hinkle will be packaged with that Magnolia Street drainage project. We'll be completing some right away acquisition for parts of Bonnie Bray. Finalized design vintage boulevard, etc. Questions about the goals again you can read them but okay so some of the performance measures. One thing in particular you see some of the the language off to the far right is we get asked a lot well how many projects do you do in-house under the design engineering and how many do you put out to consultants and so I took a window of time and did a count. We did 18 design projects in-house and five were done by consultants during this period but the huge difference in these projects is the size of the project. The average project that we design in-house is $200,000. The average project that we put out to consultants is $2 million. So much larger projects go out where we're a smaller more nimble project where it really pays to benefit that we work right down the hall from the water department and the wastewater department and we know their system and we're able to do a short small project for them quicker and cheaper we do that we make that decision right away and easement transactions etc. So those are those are some of the performance measures some of those coming up project design and construction costs versus budget estimates completion status versus initial schedule basically how good are we planning our work how good are we estimating how long it's going to take how good are we at estimating how much it's going to cost we want to compare internal cost of a parcel required versus external cost and and the time element as well for that what this what this boils down to is how do we compare against consultants when consultants do the are hired to do the work do we do it as well or better than they do. Questions? Some of the the cost containment strategies that we've implemented quality control procedures to ensure we can reject incomplete plans when they come in to the development review process evaluating some software for online right away permits to middles contracting with a consultant for process review i'm going to talk about that in a lot more detail over the next couple slides won't be all that long but in more detail and i've implemented some project management minimum standards again i have a detailed slide on that to talk about what those are in a little bit. Some completed projects the the checklist has been created to help from approval to the construction process for for projects request for information process to make sure that things don't get dropped during the handoffs from one department to another where information has to flow. Number four has been very important to me strengthening relationships with Texas Texas Women's University University North Texas the county etc all those entities that the city just has to work with and it's important that we work with we've worked very hard to strengthen those relationships over the last several months through meetings and through cooperating with them through negotiating things out it's it's it's really been good to see the fruit of those relationships being strengthened. Some of the things that we're going to be doing in the future process review and improvement again there's a slide with more detail about that some organizational review to make sure we're lined up with our duties and missions the development review process is being reviewed as well and just just leaning out processes going through some of those those efforts to say hey what's what 's not working well in this process as we go forward. Council member Briggs has a question. Just a quick comment back on that without strengthening relationships i wanted to thank you for that because that's one thing that you hear or heard in the past about how difficult it is to work with with other departments and it actually slows projects down a lot in that so thank you for working on that. Yes ma'am. So here's what I wanted to get we started diving in to analyze our processes and we dived in with what does it take to acquire real estate what does it take to select a site for a project things like that and I realized that we really didn't have a good overview of the whole process to do a capital project from start to finish so let me walk you through this quickly and efficiently first off it starts there's some need is identified for a project there's numerous different inputs of that some are scientific some are political some are even financial but something tells us hey we need a capital project here we need a new street built we need a new water pipe we need a wastewater system we need a bridge somewhere it may be from the from the measurements we take from time to time it may be from the models we run the master plan for these different water utilities etc so once a need is identified we do some feasibility how much is it going to cost what kind of improvements is that project going to make does it interfere with other things that we need to do at the same time or should it be coordinated with those other things at the same time and we begin to do some planning when should this project happen should it happen within the next year is it five years out four years out three etc so we begin to do the the planning process and things might tend to sit in a queue for a while now the things that sit in the queue are hopefully things that can wait things that can wait a little bit if it's a project based on future growth based on replacing some aging infrastructure etc it may be able to wait so things may sit in that queue when they when they come out of that queue we're ready to move forward with a project we ask the same questions that the city attorney said do we have the bandwidth to do this design of this process and do we have the skills and technique and capabilities to do that design work if we don't then we get a consultant to do it that's where that sort of 200 000 versus two million dollar project decision is made do we design it in house or do we have a consultant do it once the design is created project execution that's a small box but it's a huge piece of what goes on it's the project actually being built it's the construction activities that that cause the project to to be built put into place and then project closeout is very important we want to get the the drawings we want to do the punch list at the end of the project do the financial close out etc to make sure that the project is is finished and complete before we move on to the next thing because it's a very strong tendency to move on to the next thing before the last thing is finished so we have to stop ourselves and make sure we do a debrief we do lessons learned things like that to properly close out the project that was more exciting to me than it was to you all i can tell it's great i appreciate so some some of the specific process improvements that we put into place i created something or developed something called a project charter a project charter is about a four to five page document depending on the size of the project that gives you a certain level of detail about the project there's also a project information sheet which is a quick one page overview if you just need to know a little bit about the project you just need to know what the name of it is maybe how much it costs where it is things like that you can look at a project information sheet if you need a little bit more detail you can look at the project charter which helps the project manager begin to sort of get their foundation set and begin to start thinking what kind of resources and elements don't have to get into place to get this project built the scope change form we're working on for design changes a change order form for construction very important things to document we don't want the the contractors building the project to kind of kill us with change orders so we want to control that process and have it be structured and formalized and then weekly update forms and meeting and minutes and agenda templates things like that we're working on creating we want to increase the number of stakeholder meetings with those folks that we work with inside and outside so we have inside stakeholders if we're building a project for the water department or for the wastewater department etc we want to have meetings and let them know the status of what's going on we're creating an analysis tool to help us choose who designs the project make it a little bit more of a formalized process and a tool of working with the purchasing department to create a tool to help us find the best method for choosing a construction contractor there's a lot of different methods that we're kind of having our eyes open to ways to get projects built things like design built or a plus b etc things like that you'll you'll be hearing about in the coming weeks and months and one thing i've tried to implement is some cultural changes one is get things done now things capital projects don't move in days and minutes they tend to move in months and years so you know what's the joke about well how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time get started now you got a lot to do it can be overwhelming but we need to do things now and and i can't stand the when i hear the answer no can we do something and i hear no i want to hear yes we can here's how it may not be financially feasible we may not have the people or expertise to do it but i want to hear yes we can do that and here's how so those are the cultural changes i've tried to implement here's the budget the budget the numbers part i'll give you a moment to see what questions you have about that none any questions it's good to go last i guess oh we got one more city manager i mean the obvious question is increase in personal services the the increase from from actuals to budget the the budget numbers show all of our f ts would be full so if we have an ft allotted that's how much it would cost to actually fill that role we 've got a handful of openings the actuals were just right what the actual was absolutely so that's the difference there so then the if we'd have had the budgeted amount in the 15 16 it would have been closer to the 3.6 or 7 million is that right it would have it would have been closer to that i don't know the exact number but it would be much closer to that it wouldn't look so much of a difference right so that the big difference is from actuals to budget we've been working lean staff for several years now any other questions on the chart okay questions here questions for yes but i can i mean if there's more oh this is it that's where you ask them you read i was doing my best to move through it quickly in your flow i didn't see something that that kind of points out research and legacy projects or future projects pending for example if we're going to if we 're going to expand a road and there's a road going in kind of a meeting of the minds does that does that make sense i didn't see it does that happen it happens it'll happen during planning part of part of what we do during planning is is what other projects interface with this like for example we're building mayhill a north south road and in a very same or very similar time frame we're going to be working on mckinney street an east west road in that same area and they intersect so planning and coordination has to happen so that all the construction crews don't converge on that intersection all at the same time and cause a mess so they'll have to plan that project out that way got it and if i may so then projects that i would like for the august 8th meeting so the the i'll have a question about the what is that the road to ryan what is that that's uh mckinney street yes absolutely there'll be a detailed uh i have a question about the train quiet zones i know we got an update but i'll have uh sure i'm certain i'll have some some questions there and then my other thing that i'd like to get from you if at all possible i get it that all projects are different but i really would like some sort of cheat sheet that we could annually update that i could annual update that says either it could be a a guide that this much asphalt covers this much street uh you know and then the prices will vary but for example if i'm in a if i'm at a community meeting and they say hey i have one segment of sidewalk that needs to be replaced to get the trucks out there and to get it done is not going to be cost effective right so what is that what is that number between one segment and hey it's worth it for us to gas up the trucks and go do it i don't have an answer to that and so i'd have to email each time that comes up so i'd like some sort of cheat sheet that gives me some specifications or some general ideas that i could share one with with the citizens and two just understand what it takes to make a project fit a need you know that that sort of thing i don't know if that makes any sense but that's what i'm going i think i understand okay thank you any other questions thank you very much appreciate it great presentation look forward to the specific project updates we're going to go ahead and oh we still got one more city manager's office okay good afternoon mayor council members my name is sarah keickler i'm the assistant to the city manager i'm going to try to very quickly go over the cmo budget with you so the city manager's office has made up a few different functions and they're highlighted in blue to that organization chart on the right it's made up of administration the city secretary's office public communications office public information officer dtb and reprographics this is an overview of fte's by functional area and the one major noteworthy change here is that reviewed reduced by four fte's in administration for a savings of 656 000 and that's a reduction of two assistant city managers an administrative services manager and an executive assistant um so here is kind of a list of our goals and accomplishments they're not going to spend time going over all of them just point out a couple for you one of the accomplishments i want to point out is that we did launch two new citizen engagement programs this year the state of the city event was held in march and we had about 150 people attending we had very positive feedback on that event so we'll be planning to do another event next year and then we also had our first citizens academy this summer we've had 12 citizens enrolled in that program going through five sessions and they're actually going to be coming to the city council meeting on tuesday to graduate from that program good and then i don't want to touch on a couple of our goals for next year we'll be spending a lot of time in performance measurement program so as you've been seeing as the departments have been going through their budget presentations they have a long list of proposed measures so we're just implementing that tool of how we can collect all that data analyze it on an ongoing basis and then report it to management and then also a reporting piece that can go to the council and the public as well so that 'll be a major effort for the next year another effort where we'll be spending our time is really improving our communications and a piece of that will be a newsletter we're going to look at developing and implementing an e-newsletter so that would go out on a monthly basis to a subscriber list and really the goal here is to better share what's going on in the city and kind of share our stories of what's happening and then also want to touch upon we've already started some transparency enhancements with the website but that'll be another major focus through the next year some examples of things that are going to be taking place here shortly is that beating in august we're going to start recording more committee meetings so there'll be four new committees taped in august we've posted all of our informal staff reports on the website in the next couple weeks all of the council committees and all the boards and commissions will have all of their minutes and agendas posted on the website beginning in january of 2017 and moving forward on a regular basis and then we've also been working with galen's group and capital projects and just unveiled a capital projects map where residents can actually go onto the website see the map click on a street that they're interested in a project and get a little overview of the project who they can contact for more description and updates on a monthly basis so moving on to performance measures we have a number of performance measurements performance measures listed there i just want to give a couple numbers in regards to number two we have 161 000 followers across all of our city social media channels so that's a pretty good following we've just gotten the 2017 citizen survey results back from our vendor so we'll be reviewing those results with the committee on citizen engagement next week and then we'll bring all of those results back to the council as well and then next year we really want to go a step further in time in terms of proposed performance measures and have kind of a dashboard approach to how our website or what our residents are engaging with and reading in our website and social media so that we can better put together communication pieces is end with our dtb programming as well we really want to beef up kind of the measures around that and how they're utilizing those different platforms so that we're spending the right time in the appropriate places and just want to mention on dtb we've seen in the last year the numbers have doubled in terms of number of views and minutes watched for dtb programming so it's great to share as far as cost containment strategy i had mentioned in the beginning the reorganization reduction of four fte's the city manager's office has also been spending time with the departments to do analysis of their structure as well as their service delivery models there's a few listed there a recent one was doing a development review audit with a consultant that was actually here last week and then we've also recently went through a rep rographics managed competition where printing services were a bit out with the private sector we'll be bringing a recommendation to council next week to reject those bids reprographics was actually very competitive with the private sector and there's a couple different reasons one of them being we do have a lease agreement through 2018 but i'll kind of formally lay that out in the as and why we have that recommendation however that managed competition managed competition process was very valuable for us we're going to be implementing a time tracking system we really want to understand how time is being spent there and if we have some additional capacity that could be leveraged or if a staffing structure needs to change and be looked at differently and then we're also looking at kind of an analysis of the communication structure across the organization right now we have communications and marketing professionals in different departments and our goal is to really kind of bring us into collaboration and work together more as one team instead of a separated siloed team apart so we really want to improve that going forward and then as always we're eager to use volunteers and interns with our DTV programs as far as process improvements there's a couple listed there i'll touch on the third one in terms of the public communication office they've implemented a project and ticket management software that really helps us to plan better for projects also have different departments and the internal customers submit tickets if they need the website updated if they need different communication pieces put together and it helps us to monitor service levels to know how responsive we're being to our internal customers in the future for next year the city secretary's office has a major initiative to work with purchase purchasing the centralized contract and ordinance records and laser fiche we also have a supplemental request that we'll be presenting for to implement a city wide crm system a customer relationship management system and this is really to have a central point where residents can go to submit a service request whether that be through the website or through a mobile app and then those service requests requests get tracked and to the right departments to be taken care of and then just another future goal is to continue with the enhancement of communication and sharing of information that we've already begun and here is an overview of the budget highlights i don't think there's anything to note besides that first line item and personnel services and the reduction and staff happy to answer any questions you may have any questions for staff for the city manager's office no great thank you in the interest of time we are going to move e and d and e d and e to the next meeting or the meeting after that so the next work session item that we'll take up is 3f which is receive report hold discussion and give staff direction regarding the charter review committee recommendations so okay good afternoon good afternoon mayor and council brian lengley deputy city manager i want to continue our conversation of the charter review committee recommendations that we've been having the last few weeks just as a brief background the council appointed a charter review committee 21 person committee back in october 2016 they met from de cember of 2016 up through may of this year back on june 27th we had the chairman of the committee joe molroy come and make a formal presentation to you for all the recommendations from that committee and then we had a work session with you just last week on july 18th to talk about any modifications that you'd like to make with that there were seven different charges that were given to the charter review committee as we discussed last week on six of these items you're comfortable moving forward to the voters with the recommendations of the committee at this point we did have a lot of discussion on item six which is related to ethics and so i'm going to have focus my comments today on that to try to get some consensus from the council of how we want to proceed so on the rest of the loan you guys we're ready yes sir i'm going to bring what i what i intend to do is bring back a some information for you next week on august 1st to show you the ballot language how that will look and make sure the council is comfortable with that and then we'd bring it back on august 15th to have the council vote to place that on the the ballot so uh charge number six is ethics and as you may recall there were two different components of the council of the committee's recommendation to the council the first was that the charter language be revised and that they that we add a section to the charter which said that the council would be required to adopt an ethics ordinance and then there were components of that that i'll show you in just a moment and then the ethics ordinance they made several different recommendations to you of different areas that they thought should be included in that ordinance and in some components of that that should be considered so the council discussions that we've had really centered around these three different areas how does the charter language compare to the model city charter should the model city charter language replace or supplement the requested recommended changes how should the ethics provisions for employees be addressed and should an independent board of ethics be included in the charter language those are really the three main areas that i think we focused on so again here is the charter review committee recommended language that's here i won't go through this with you again the model city charter had some of the same elements but there were some differences both contained a conflict of interest provision both the recommendations from the committee and what was in the model city charter there also were both they have also both had enforcement mechanisms but the model city charter contained language for the creation of an independent board of ethics the the committee's recommendation did not include that explicitly although that was spelled out in the ordinance provisions that they recommended yes sir there there was quite a bit of discussion about the independent board i think some of the concerns that some members had were how would that work with the personnel policies related for all employees and it was really kind of a detailed question that they felt like shouldn't be addressed in the charter at least that from the position on the suit ability of that particular process it was that being included in this charter yes sir i think that was the general sense so the charter review committee again back back to the independent board of ethics they recommended a three-person panel with mediation and arbitration experience be the element of the ethics ordinance again that was addressed there not in the charter language but in the ordinance recommendations that they had so i wanted to talk to you about some options as i've listened to the conversation i did get a couple of emails from some members over the last several days and and trying to get some consensus about where the council wants to go wanted to give you a few options to consider obviously the first one is you could you could recommend moving forward with the charter review committee's recommendations or you could modify that charter language this is a red line version of what was recommended by the committee i think there was a statement that some of you had made the last discussion about trying to include some of the model city charter language that i've included here so i would add the ethics ordinance shall prohibit the use of public office for private gain and shall incorporate conflict of interest standards that appear in chapter 171 so try to incorporate that statement i think again there was some consensus around wanting to have that in the language after having some discussions with legal we also felt like it'd be appropriate to add in the section four on the administration and enforcement provision that administration and enforcement of ethics ordinance including the power to subpoena witnesses and documents be added so that's something based on the feedback we got from legal we wanted to bring forward to your to your attention for consideration and it with item four it could as a substitute just for consideration it could be established independent board of ethics for administration and enforcement including the power for to subpoena witnesses and documents coupled with strong and meaningful remedies so again trying to just facilitate that discussion to give you a couple different ideas of how to proceed and happy to answer any questions you may have so we is this the point where we decide yes sir trying to look for some direction of how to proceed and and to find where there is is consensus on this certainly i listed in option number three which could be anything any other recommendations but just trying to give you some options to consider as you're as you're looking at this language from the last meeting we had one of the things that we talked about was the question of if this would apply to employees as well as elected and appointed officials in terms of what i remember i think we agreed that it would apply to employees but we didn't want an independent board to be making decisions about employees that's kind of the consensus that i remember i'm wondering how to reflect that in this well i mean i think and and that's really the i think that 's really the general issue of the charter revision versus an ethics ordinance because i think what you're describing i mean if you wanted to put that this ethics ordinance shall apply to employees it's in the ethics i mean charter but the ethics ordinance is where you can really decouple and and address more specifically those particular nuances of what you're what you're describing i think that's why we heard from the city manager and from the expert i believe who was uh spoke with the committee that you want to get a general framework in the charter and then fill that put the flesh on the bone so to speak in the ethics ordinance that's sort of what i recall but i think we can do what you just described i think it's better suited with that level of detail in the ordinance but if you want to are you saying you want to put in here that this ethnicity the city council shall adopt an ethics ordinance at this order and should ever hit the use of public office do you want to say that it applies to employees city council members and appointees at the charter level that's kind of what i was going the direction that i was heading in it does create an issue with the second provision which requires a board an independent board because then the independent board would have authority over the employees unless we stated otherwise in the ordinance i would think but well well that's if we put the independent board in the charter correct and i think if we did not put it in the charter because i've said all along and i'm gonna say it again that i i struggle with with it as it was presented i know we've had emails i know we've had a person who's on the committee talk about it but i think it's my my my sentiments have been misconstrued and not been reflected accurately what was presented last work session was the charter the the model charter language about an independent board with subpoena power with independent sort of investigatory powers whether there's a complaint or not i'm i'm not ready to i'm not ready to do that at all i'm certainly ready to discuss it but i don't think at the charter level we need to go into that level of detail so if you took off the optional substitute before and you left for the same you could that's just saying that's not even saying how that even looks whether it's an independent board of of citizens whether it's an independent board of ex-juris and you could address the employee situation in the ethics ordinance so i 'm okay with four where it says administration enforcement of ethics ordinance including the power to subpoena witnesses documents but i'm still going to say i i gotta be honest i mean i've thought about this a lot we are talking about and this goes more towards the ordinance but we're talking about our maximum penalty which is a class c misdemeanor for a violation of our awareness and if i'm incorrect please tell me you're correct is a 500 dollar fine you can 't even we can't even if we thought it was an egregious thing we couldn't remove from office we can't now we can refer to the da if we believe that there's criminal matters involved so i'm going to have a lot of struggle with uh someone who's not experienced in dealing with these kind of cases where you're when you have subpoena power i think mayor pro tem can attest it that's strong and it's and it's and it's heavy and i'm not saying it shouldn't be heavy but you want to make sure that whoever's in charge of that understands the nature and the severity of that especially if it's if it comes to the point where there's nothing there i mean so and again we've had people who have experienced where complaints have been filed without much merit so that that's just so i'm okay with it the way it is without option substitute for number four with that additional language the ethics ordinance shall prohibit adding language about who it applies to council members appointees and employees i think council member hudslick was that well thank you and first the fact that 100 of the emails didn't get sent is troubling for me i mean because i'd love to just i wanted to see i want to see side by side where the sticking points is and i think this goes a lot faster than us talking trying to write notes i'm just disappointed in that person moving forward uh well we were we had talked about last meeting about everyone sending brindle language and then we could have a bullet or written and we could have it side by side you can look at it all week or weekend gotcha you 're talking about the ones that yes okay i didn't know there was 100 out there i wasn't aware of yeah no so that would have been okay but onward upward um for me i think we had a consensus that number three is difficult to to manage and and so i i'm okay with that coming out but i in my in in thinking on it one fix maybe for the one off that maybe is not justified i suggested was a some sort of requiring that individual that's raising a concern to to submit an affidavit written affidavit or written statement that says here's my concern and it be reviewed on its face so on its face it could be just rejected again and right so we've received it we've reviewed it we've rejected it because of and that 's all done in writing don't have to convene anybody don't have to uh cause any any extra duties on people but then we reviewed it and yes it has merits then you go into a full on whatever that process looks like so that's just an extra step that that came to mind who would be reviewing this that's my right so so it would be the same body that's going to review someone's going to have to review the ethics complaints so it's the same it's the same thing and and so i did i diminished subpoena power a little bit because every attorney has it right i mean you can write your own subpoenas uh you you're giving that power with with with your uh um as as a jd sure so so that that kind of diminished not not that i that sounds bad but it's it's not as you you i don't hold it as high just because i think there's several attorneys out there and and it doesn't there's no it's not a meritocracy that says hey you've now completed uh you've been a jd for 600 years so now you get the right to write my only concern with that is but but the subpoena sure you're right jd state issues subpoena for witnesses for documents but then what happens with that information there's a whole set of rules of jurisprudence whereas people can go to quash as subpoena people can do all kinds of things and and and it's just when you start talking about demanding documents that people have to get under some kind of either uh remedy of contempt or some other kind of punishment so no you're right the subpoena itself is pretty perfunctory as far as just attorneys can issue them but they're issuing them in a in a context of a legal matter that i mean it's just i mean when you start throwing out these kind of things in a context that don't have a whole lot of rules uh governing the examination of witnesses the the subpoenas how that information i just i maybe it's because i've been in in in the legal profession but i just really struggle with making sure we have some very can i clarify the the subpoena issue when attorneys do that we're doing it in connection with as when we're operating under the civil court or the criminal court process and the rules and and state statutes that are that apply to that this this power here is operating in connection with our charter so i can as an attorney for the city issue under some authority under city ordinance to issue a subpoena for witnesses and documents that power has to flow through our charter because i'm not operating or an attorney that's part of an ethics review board is not operating under the court system they're operating under our charter and our ethics ordinance so there is a distinction about whether or not that person has the ability to issue subpo enas and that's why we included it in here too because your power to do so flows from the charter so i'm not saying i'm not force opinion i'm just saying let's just well and i guess same reason different tape right so involved in the legal system the the city is in many facets immune from litigation but we get sued every day right i mean so there's just certain things where it's just i what are we protecting against right i mean you cannot protect against someone going off on on a on a limb and doing something that ultimately will be found unjustified but does not stop them prohibit them from at least launching out to start the process and so i guess were you saying the same legal system you know and understand hey i'm leery of these things i understand the legal system and there's not enough words in a contract compared and joined with the human language to protect you from someone that's just heck bent on giving you a hard time and it's and it's no different than if you have written rules for a department request for discovery you can say hey i'm not sending you these things because these four or five reasons so so it's one of those things where i just think the system my you know same thing but same approach looking at the system i just don't know that it um there's not enough protections out there there's not enough words out there to make it stand on stand alone it's just that's my just my my thoughts the difference for me is not so much i don't disagree with anything you just said but in the civil or criminal arena if you're if you're going to sue somebody you're going to have to retain an attorney you're either going to have to pay them or it's going to be contingency you're going to have all kinds of other things that you may like if you lose you may have to pay other people's fees so there's other consequences that potentially drive that decision making process in other words you're just not going to step out on a limb just because there may be some consequences that are afforded if you do that in a way that's either frivolous or if you it doesn't even have to rise to frivolous or bad faith it you're going to carefully consider that i'm just simply saying this is a big deal i mean when you accuse somebody of an ethical violation that's a big deal and so you want to make sure that there are systems in place for the protection of the person who's the accused and that that there are rules in place that that provide for an accountability of that so i have no problem including the power to subpoena witnesses and documents i don't have an issue with that it's how do we create that system that's going to review all of that information how do we set in place a system that when they're reviewing it it can literally be above the reproach that we're trying to correct here in other words how can we make sure that the ethical review system is as uh as ethical and as trustworthy as what we're trying to produce so i don't have a problem let me just say i don't have a problem with including that power to subpoena i think it's necessary to have a very strong review my more concern is what is the actual makeup of that review process that's really my own issue and that's a very detailed analytical discussion uh probably at the ethics ordinate stage um and i think there's some ways we can sort of have a win-win on that but uh and i'm with you on number three i could take number three out because if we need to define that we can put it in in in ordinance but that's just i mean the appearance of conflict i don't even know what that means i mean i know what it means but i think it's very different for different people i'm sorry i've been i've been filibustering as somebody is accused other people of doing so i believe you had a question yes and then we'll go to councilmember bricks and this has to do with the subpoena of witnesses i agreed that that probably it would be uh fleshed out in an ordinance um the concern that i have is that who issues the subpoena is it our city attorney is it the person who's uh lodging the complaint is it this review committee um and when you're talking about protections it seems that that the constitution that this may not this may be a different thing i'm not a lawyer but that people are protected from illegal searches and seizures or are unnecessary undue search and seizures and if somebody gets the you know gets the chance to look at your tax records or your bank accounts and things like that it would seem to be that there's got to be some level of of rationale that would justify that rather than just well i want to take a peek so how does how is how does that protection come so that so that because i can imagine that there are people that would consider running for council who are already thinking well i don't know that i want to subject myself to all of the public scrutiny that comes with the campaign but now they have subpoena power over me and and and can just anybody demand to see all of my personal private financial records and things like that or my wife's or my brother's i don't understand it and somebody's going to need to explain it to me um i mean it may be completely fine and that there are sufficient protections but i don't know so before our attorney answers that because i'm really trying to we've got to give some direction on the charter language what you're asking for seems to be something that would are you are you not okay with including the power to subpo ena witnesses and documents i don't know because i don't know what that means all right i'm just trying to get an understanding i'm not a lawyer i don't work with lawyers okay so go ahead that power in several of the ordinances that we reviewed ethics ordinance that we reviewed across the state is usually given by ordinance after because it's found in the charter but it's delegated by ordinance to the ethics review board to issue those subpoenas upon the request of the i guess the complainant as well as the the city or the the official who's being who's had an ethics complaint filed against them that's how that usually goes um and and you know that board will have to determine whether or not the documents or witnesses that are being requested are relevant to the complaint at hand i i can't tell you when they will or when they won't that's going to be up to whatever type of board this council decides to create under an ordinance so that would be it would be then the charter what this is doing is is providing the authority for the ordinance to lay out the details of how that would work is that what you're telling me that is correct in order for this council under the charter to delegate some of its authority to a board or commission that power has to be concluded in your charter and currently the power to subpoena witnesses and documents is not there and it would be then the the council's prerogative in the ordinance to lay out who has the authority to do it what the limitations are how one could respond or not respond and and that yes that would be within your uh future policy discussions as to how you want to allow or limit that power okay thank you so i i like the the adding the languages number four or the subs i'm okay with the substitute established independent board up that doesn't bother me i'm going to take a different route here and say i'm okay with three because the times i have actually recused myself has been on appearance of conflict i've had zero financial interest and the the times that i've removed myself from boats has been specifically from appearance of a conflict of interest so i don't i don't see an issue with that and i kind of know what that means and i would like to add that it's applicable for city officials employees and appointees in the top there so that's my i think let's just go with that are we pretty much in consensus that as far as the city employees appointees and go ahead i just haven't i have a problem with including it at this level because the unforeseen of who else we might need to include in it that you can cover by ordinance that down the road i mean is it something that that's the reason contracts are now 20 pages long that 20 years ago were five pages long there's it's scar tissue it's stuff you find along the way and if we start listing who is covered by an ethics ordinance in the charter then we can't add any other group under ordinance so that's that's where i have have a problem with starting to list you know boards commissions council members employees well what about contractors that or you know outside legal yeah there's all kinds of other things that may eventually need to be covered by ethics ordinance that we limit ourselves as soon as we start listing in the charter who we can down the road okay yes my question well i believe our contracts a third-party contractor can be subject to whatever rules we want them to be subject to by virtue of the contractual engagement so for instance we in some of our contracts i believe we have an auditing provision which allows us to audit their records so i'm not worried about that i mean i understand where you're coming from but they'll be covered through normal contracting procedures if that's what what the councils want to do well i guess my point is we don't the unforeseen who may need to be added i just use contractor as an example but the unforeseen is you know you don't know who it is because it's on that's why you call it unforeseen as to who you may eventually need to add and again it goes back to this all contracts are scar tissue it's from an accident that happened once before the reason that a chainsaw says do not stop blade with hand is because somebody evidently did that but nobody thought that they would do that at some point yes i guess i guess i would just like um our legal counsel's take on that because there's my perspective is a little bit of a fallacy in there but i'll let legal it's certainly up to you whether you want to include the specific positions and and individuals to be covered under a charter or not that's up to you the i don't want to speculate what might happen in the future but once you include that information in your charter you know and then you start drafting the ordinance and the ordinance it always changed to you know i know the concern the city manager has had is interfering with his ability to address personnel issues and so by putting employees in in the charter 10 years from now a future council may amend the ordinance to strip away that authority i mean i it's a possibility but but you know i think that the council needs to be very thoughtful and careful in what it puts in the actual charter i you know that was the suggestion that our outside council that came that gave ethics is that this is your template this is this is the platform upon which everything springs the more you include in there the more you're going to leave things out or you have unintended consequences so that was so what council member ryan pointed out was something similar to what our outside council had also cautioned the committee about getting too detailed in a in drafting the ethics charter provision let me let me ask you this then so if we say we're not going to include any elected or appointed office holder and we're not going to include employees in this language then when it comes time to draft the ordinance what is the underlying justification for including those people in the ordinance you'll have that that authority to do that under the ordinance to list the specific individuals this is just your template that you shall adopt an ethics ordinance and these are some of the minimum requirements that they want to see in that as far as everything else that comes with that that's going to be discussed as a policy discussion amongst yourselves there's a lot of other things in an ethics ordinance it doesn't it's not even in here but it will be an unethics ordinance you know there were complaints who can file what are the minimum minimum prima facie claim that they have to to establish it just goes on and on thank you mayor the senate starting that second paragraph the council may adopt more stringent standards than those that appear in state law so a more stringent standard could be included in an ordinance where we say these ordinances are going to apply to all boards and commissions or maybe only to the boards and commissions with some type of legislative authority or it could say that these will apply to staff but the the administration enforcement will be through regular employment procedures and the city manager couldn't you do something like that yes you could i mean i it's it's again ultimately what you all decide wants to go in there it there is no wrong or right answer it's just what would be the future unintended consequences as councilman ryan pointed out right so what i 'm hearing is if you put those specifics in there it could limit you in other words if you were to try to craft an ordinance to add some additional category somebody would say no the charter has limited you to these people whereas if you leave it something open-ended like this well then you have a great greater flexibility moving forward and we're going to be crafting crafting this ordinance this council will be crafting this ordinance so okay well uh i'm not sure we'll get their feedback when they come back in um yes council member duck i guess i i really think we need to need to have the independent board of ethics i guess my only problem with that is how are those those people appointed you know why are you saying you you want it in the charter you want it in the ordinance i i think it should be in the charter yeah because i think i think you know this whole thing really is to get to the point where the citizens in denton trust us you know and i think with the with the problems with the ethics in the past uh we need to get this behind us but i think i think the independent i think we need we really need an independent board of ethics you know well i i don't know if i'm not saying we don't i just i just don't i wouldn't agree to put it in the charter i mean i think the ordinance the ordinance is a place that well i mean the charter i mean look to think that somehow if it's not in the charter that the citizens aren't going to trust this council i think is a huge stretch i mean i just i mean i know it's your personal preference and that you're certainly entitled to that but i think you know we don't want to create unintended consequences because we're trying to overcompensate for something that people think happened a year or two ago i mean we are a lot further along than we were six months or a year ago and come another six months or a year when we craft the ethics ordinance or however long it takes we're going to be much further along so what i want to do is i want to get we got to start figuring this out so we're going to start going through this line by line we're going to start taking consensus and we're just going to let the chips fall where they may i mean if i 'm on the wrong side of this i'm real okay with that so as far as and i guess i'll wait on council member gary yes well i understand what mr deft is saying but unless the an ethics board was elected by the same people that elect us it's not independent because the problem is is if we each appoint someone then then the argument would be made oh just like the argument is the council uh polices itself because the council members make up the ethics committee so you take it a step back you appoint people oh well then that committee has been appointed by the council members so how can they be independent so i'm not sure how you get there which is one of the issues about appearance of conflict or these appearance things so i i think that's the problem that you run into that that i don't think there's a solution for unless you change the the charter to allow the the citizens to elect uh another group and and here's the point uh the citizens barely trusted us enough because they elected the seven of us so so i think that that's that's that's one level of well is did they not yeah well that's true okay good well we got we got mayor pro tem back so mayor pro tem we're going to start going through these individually to determine what the consensus is to put in this charter oh i'm sorry council member husband thank you before so i'd like to add into consideration that what i mentioned that there is a written process that proceeds whatever formal process so if you add that okay all right okay so we'll start with uh as far as number two where it says the red line the ethics ethics ordinance shall prohibit the use of public office for private gain everybody okay with that language all right now the question becomes do you want to add at the charter level the list of people who it applies to council in front of i've heard is council appointees and council council appointees and employees so we're just going to go around the horn mayor can i just clarify my thought was if the council wanted to proceed in that fashion it would be the city council shall adopt an ethics ordinance which applies to those those folks that you just mentioned that's fine if that's if that's where you want to have that's fine no no yes uh i lost okay i think okay all right i lost count okay so you do not want the right at the charter level okay at the charter level let's make sure we 're not this isn't deciding what we're going to put in an ethics ordinance right this is at the charter language and and i do want it at the at the i think that yeah i think that goes yes did you council member briggs did you have a question i'm just disappointed no question that's okay i appreciate you sharing that uh okay avoidance of appearance of conflict of interest there's been some about do we want to take that out of the charter and do something else with it um council member briggs i'm fine with it there i'm going to do it at the ordinance level uh i don't like it but i'm going to go with what the committee recommended so i want to leave it in okay and the committee recommended that i'll go with that as well leave it i have no idea where we are oh on avoidance of appearance of conflict are we living that are we what is our what is our consensus on putting that in the charter language or or putting it in the ordinance or doing something else okay i'm okay so that's in okay so that stays yeah okay all right so the big one is number four so we're going to have to go with number four as written and then the optional substitute for number four and then we'll address council member hudspeth's additional one of putting the complaint in writing sworn under affidavit and sort of a cursory review of that before is that yes summarizing okay we're going to start over here on this side save you save council member duff i'm i'm kind of conflicted here too because you know if we leave it leave number four in there then it's up to it's up to the ordinance and we can work all that out later and i think that's so i think i'm okay with that number four as written not the optional substitute for number four but number four well including the power to subpoena including the including the okay this is pina okay council member hudspeth yes i think i like optional substitute for okay optional substitute for i'm going with number four not the optional substitute same as you mayor same as you mayor optional okay so four is written and then we want to address council member hudspeth's record point of clarification four is written without the red line no with the red line with the red line okay of course yeah with the red line okay so the um so you want to put in the charter provision a so to boil it down for a charter i would say that there there is a uh review process before a formal allegation is considered so and then in the ordinance that would read uh you have to sure the complaint would then assign their words their signature and in a sworn fashion to then have this whatever the body we establish review it so it's it's charter very boiled down hey there's a review process to keep things that don't have merit from going too far but don't discourage someone from being considered and there's a written reply back in the order i mean that's in the ordinance level it says hey we're going to receive it we're going to communicate back with you that way okay any questions yes go ahead it would seem to me i think i know what you're getting at and i like what you're getting at but it seems to me it's covered and for as it's stated there that the council is going to have the following components administration and enforcement of an ethics ordinance so we get to uh through this ordinance we're going to just lay out how it's administered how it might be reviewed how it uh how people will be responded to i think all of that would be handled there and i think getting any more detailed in the ordinance in the excuse me in the charter only puts us in a more complicated situation down the road so i think that we we that this charter language does not prohibit us from doing that i think it enables us to do that okay but you that's one no and one yes yeah yes i think so yes yeah and then yeah uh go ahead and so no i don 't think we need it in here okay in at the charter level at the charter level we we need it in the ordinance right okay not to not you're gonna hate me but tell me again what it what the the core of what you're asking is yeah no no not at all uh for me it is the charter is more static and i think it needs a process by which or a structure by which that's mandated that says we're going to have an early out and so if i were to compare it to something it'd be a a um um you know in a case i forget the name i'm drawing a blank where you can you can say hey there's been nothing proved here let's let's end this right here and so that's kind of the the thought behind it is we can short circuit it early i think it's covered in administration yeah well i think it's covered in administration at the charter level but i certainly think at the at the ordinance level we can certainly i think that's going to be imperative that we have some type of review specific review mechanism to address that so i i think i'm okay with the charter language as it stands here councilmember briggs okay all right so um to summarize number two is is is being left in the red is in as you've written it if i remember correctly yes sir i think i think it's everything here without the optional substitute that i have because the board is of appearance of conflict stays in as well yes sir all right including the power subpoena this ordinance about the private gain right this last bullet point would come off okay all right okay okay i think that's the direction i needed thank you for your patience as we went through that just to remind you on the schedule i will bring councilmember i do have a question um a while ago when we first started talking about the charter committee i i seem to recall there was some talk about having public discussion and maybe some um like a public hearing hearing about what the charter committee came up with is there a reason why that that didn't occur um well we certainly had a lot of public comment during the committee process i think at the council's direction we can have a public hearing if you want a courtesy public hearing about these issues we could certainly put that on the schedule if you'd like well me it's kind of going backwards now i'm just i was just thinking about um those initial conversations about the charter committee in the process going through and it feels like there are some things that got overlooked or skipped and i well i may not have done a good job talking about that but during the committee process there was a public portion of the meeting where any public comments could be received they had several folks that came and spoke to the committee all of the meetings were we had very detailed minutes that were taken they were posted on the website when we had the outside attorney come in we actually video recorded that particular minute meeting and put that on the website so i think from the committee's standpoint they felt like they were very open to that that public input i think at this point with the council if you want to have a public hearing we can certainly do that and add that to the schedule well most likely this will be an item for individual consideration or something so they're probably going to have an opportunity to speak to these final recommendations of course yes okay absolutely thank you okay so but i thought you said you wanted this on consent agenda i'm kidding you councilman thanks i'm kidding you so okay in terms of the schedule i will bring back next week on the first i'll bring back the proposed ballot language based on all the changes that you can see everything as written we can certainly make changes to that if you need to and then on the 15th we would have the council meeting to ask you to call the election and then that would be in november so that's the schedule we have in front of you and and unless there are any other questions we'll bring that back next week and continue down that path any other questions i might pretend at our last meeting i brought up a new business item related to the charter election so just i mean i want to make sure that when we have that august 1st posting it's broad enough to include any other potential items that may come up yeah i didn't go ahead i'm sorry mayor i did include some of that information in the agenda information sheet regarding the public utility board terms and the dates of the municipal election are we able to discuss it with the posting that we have today today because it says charter committee recommendations and now that would be outside of posting but we can certainly repost it so they can have that discussion at your august 1 st meeting that would be good yeah and i would just assume have that at at the work session level because that's not something that's been addressed at all i know about any of these so i i'm going to be very concerned if all of a sudden we're starting to put charter provisions on this with with no discussion from anybody other than this council during one work session so i don't mind having the discussion but i'm concerned about that quite honestly so i just we'll make sure we have a posting that we can discuss it okay all right all right thank you for your time all right anybody need a break we're just going to plow through i'm not sure if we ordered dinner or not um she was waiting on you so we've got one more closed session excuse me one more open session which is discussion of a cng i guess that's just sort of an update on that and then we have two closed session items is the closed session item 1a is that more of a placeholder yeah about the budget yeah that were that might be competitive matters okay and then b of course uh so i mean what do y'all think will still be here i think we'll still be here another hour uh yes yes could you come to the i'm sorry or kids kids yeah so staff is wanting us to do the consent agenda before we go to close session which so there's nothing on the consent agenda that references any closed session item i'm okay with that sure okay all right so we'll just do that right after our last work session all right okay um i guess that didn't no didn't get my original question answered are you guys wanting to just plow through this and it doesn 't matter if we get out seven seven thirty we'll just not make any provisions for any type of dinner or what do y'all want to do okay so no ordering nothing everybody i'm gonna order uber eats if it gets too late honestly okay i can't hold out like okay so then why don't we why don't try to try to pick something up sandwiches or pizza or something or i'm not sure what i'm really okay i'll just order like pad thai or something okay you don't have to order meals for me yeah i will i will what would you like i will i will eat if food is here okay let's let's see if we can't figure something out no i'm talking about if we need to order something yeah i mean i think we need to do that because that's i mean typically we would if we're going past six or six thirty or seven all right um work session agenda item 3g which is receive report hold discussion give staff direction regarding compressed natural gas fueling facility at the intersection of mayhill road and spencer road good evening top food sounds great to me by the way so uh nice ordering yeah well mr mayor members of the city council i have a brief presentation for you this afternoon this this is a little bit more than an update regarding compressed natural gas fueling uh we are going to be seeking some direction from you this evening uh as you all know i'm the the new director of solid waste and one of the things that we've taken a look at over the last few weeks is a few of the projects that we've had in queue for a while one of those is for a cng fueling station i want to give you just a little bit of background to start and kind of where we've been with compressed natural gas and what's led us to this point so compressed natural gas is an alternative fuel and as you may or may not be aware we actually have an alternative fueling station at 1527 south mayhill the landfill facility and in 2012 gas prices were such that that the staff visited with pub and the city council and the prospects of a cng fleet and also a fueling facility looked very attractive when compared to diesel and those talks intensified on into the summer of 2013 around that time public sales were also contemplated and staff as my understanding got direction that we should pursue public sales and also go forward with installing public fueling facility at that location around the fall of 2013 negotiations with the firm to construct the facility began unfortunately those talks fell apart and in the the spring of 2014 because the department had already invested in cng vehicles in the fleet there was an agreement that required us to get a mobile fueling contract with a firm called ucng or ultimate cng at the time that was a three-year agreement for spending authority of about 120 000 i'll go through in the next slide and just kind of walk you through the chain of events between 2012 and now but there were a couple of contract amendments that were required in january 2015 and also november 2015 the reason why is we needed additional spending authority for compressed natural gas that initial 120 000 agreement ballooned to about a 1.9 million dollars that was because of the additional investments in the fleet and also the changes in fuel prices fast forward to august 2016 zyatt energy was was awarded the station construction again at the facility out at the landfill and we visited with the public utilities board yesterday with the same presentation and at the end i'll provide a little bit of information regarding the direction that they provided also in september 2016 the city of denton applied and was awarded a 600 000 grant for public cng sales and this is a grant from the tceq the texas commission on environmental quality the covenants or the requirements of that grant require that the city make public sales public cng sales available no fewer than a period of three years that also requires full public access in other words it's open to anyone that wants to use the facility and it also requires that we make that facility available certain days of the week and certain hours of the day the good news for us is the it doesn't require that we have a gas station attendant so we don't have to staff that with someone the pumps that have been purchased have some credit card readers on them and so it is somewhat of a self-service facility if we continue to go in that direction i want to walk you briefly through kind of the delay of the land from 2012 to 2017 so i think most of us here probably own a vehicle so in 2012 gas prices were pretty much at their apex diesel was was somewhat unaffordable as well and so at the time you had diesel prices at three dollars and seventy cents a gallon and you had cng compressed natural gas at two dollars and 12 cents a gallon so about a dollar 58 cent margin there between those two you fast forward to today and that difference between cng and diesel has shrank considerably it's down to about a difference of only 12 cents per gallon and so the the financial assumptions made at the time is that this is a really favorable project and this one that was going to save us money financially and in addition to some financial or environmental benefits curious thing since that time i mentioned the mobile fueling contract the problem with the mobile fueling contract is the three dollars and 75 cents per gallon that the department's been paying on that since 2013 2014 far as far and above market prices for diesel or cng either one and so we 've been paying a premium on gas prices since that time the other curious thing is that the department continued to invest in vehicles despite that being the situation and so we went from a fleet of about three to eight vehicles up to a fleet of 24 vehicles and so the amendments to the contract that i mentioned a moment ago that's really why the additional spending authority was there also since that time the the six hundred thousand dollar grant we received from tceq about two hundred and one thousand dollars that's been expended so we do have some equipment on the ground that we can also obviously implement this is going to be a key factor as we go through this and we start seeking direction because if we do not seek public sales this is some money we would need to return this was not in your packet i put this in hopefully you can see that there's actually a site out there called cng1 and it's a website that gives you ability to really kind of calculate quick and easy the payback period if you're contemplating converting a vehicle to cng so i'll walk you through this this is the picture in 2012 versus 2017 and so we're going to do the analysis for one vehicle we're going to assume that the average miles per year at about 10 000 our solid waste trucks they typically run between 10 000 to 20 000 per year give or take we get notoriously poor fuel efficiency in those vehicles because of the start and stop so about three miles per gallon is not far off the mark again 370 a gallon for diesel at that time two dollars and 12 cents for cng the conversion cost for those 24 vehicles runs on average between 35 and 40 000 so this is not an inexpensive conversion for those vehicles the purchase price on one of those standard ranges from 150 to 400 000 on its own so assuming all of this holds true and that this price difference holds true for the sustained period of time you're looking at a payback period on your investment in the vehicle alone of about seven to seven and a half years understand that that does not touch any of the capital investment that we would have in the fueling station that would need to be addressed through some other means of gathering revenue the reality of the situation is we have really not seen the difference in diesel and natural gas cost to this extent since about 2011 and actually tracking back about 17 years in order for this to break even on just the capital investment here there's only about three three and a half to four and a half years where the fuel process would have made this work so the scenario that we're actually dealing with right now in 2017 all these assumptions are the same the difference is your gasoline or your diesel cost are much lower than they were back then cng is just a shade higher same assumptions your payback period goes from seven and a half years to 100 years and so we haven't given it a shot yet but i don't think we're going to get a solid waste truck to last us that period of time and so this is this is kind of the the commodity market it's volatile what looks like a good option at one point can become very unfortunate given the volatility of that market another a couple of slides i want to give you these are performas that we've put together i want to walk through this there's a lot of detail here i want to make sure you understand what i'm giving you and give you opportunity for questions so this pro forma is going to have some revenues in here number one you have city of denton fuel sales for the purpose of this pro forma we're actually selling it to ourselves and we have expenses that are recovered as a result of that public fuel sales is also contemplated here as well as the tceq station grant expenditures are going to be a mix of fuel cost operations and maintenance and then you also have some debt service in here that's going to be mixed in as well for the cng station construction and as well as those incremental upgrade costs for the trucks that we talked about so all of that gets you down to a net income net loss projected over the next five years we have some scenarios up here that i'll walk through in just a moment this is what you would see from an actual dollar amount if our projections hold true also below net income there's a line that says fuels cost savings for the purposes of this slide we 're comparing fuel cost savings to diesel as our baseline and so when you look at that that is that is an assumption that diesel is going to be about 22 cents more per gallon than cng so let me walk through a few of these we have four scenarios up here i'll go through them one by one number one is mobile fueling that is what we are currently doing and so under that scenario we would not be selling cng to the public if we remain on the mobile fueling platform which we would not recommend but you would be returning two hundred and one thousand dollars of the grant you'd have your fuel purchases of about 2.9 million dollars over the next five years you do have some sunk cost with your cng station as well as your your trucks and so again not our option we would recommend that 's about a 4.1 million dollar loser over the next five years also because we're paying a premium for that fuel through the mobile fueling platform that would be about another 1.9 million dollars that uh you know essentially opportunity costs that we would incur so that's that's a six million dollar upside down investment number two again this is an option that we wouldn't recommend but we wanted to put it out there because it's the easiest exit strategy from cng if you're you're thinking along those lines this is retrofitting all of our cng vehicles back to diesel and getting back to a diesel diesel fuel system as quickly as we can again most of these assumptions are going to remain the same the the biggest difference if you follow my mouse is the conversion back to diesel is going to be about 1.2 to 1.9 million dollars and so with that there's also some complications that we would anticipate i don't know of very many fleets that have taken that conversion after these vehicles been in operation for a little while we would assume that there's going to be some complications with that and some unexpected expenses as well question mayor pro tem okay we added 24 cng trucks what is the total number for the fleet that's cng that were 24 vehicles are cng right now oh total yeah that's about 40 of our fleet our residential commercial fleet is there a market a resale market for cng vehicles it's a good question and i only have anecd otal evidence at this stage i can speak from uh we we recently salvaged two of our diesel vehicles we got 60 000 a piece on those and this is pure speculation uh but we have heard that cngs are fetching as low as a thousand dollars one zero zero zero that's correct and again that's unsubst antiated uh we haven't tried to salvage one of these ourselves the first one that we have uh roll out of the fleet will be in the next couple years but simple supply and demand will tell you that the market for cng vehicles is much lower than a diesel vehicle okay that you bring up a good point because my next question was going to be if we put in the infrastructure for cng then we're continually having to purchase or retrofit to cng vehicles not necessarily um all these options and i 'm glad you brought that up all these options are contemplated under the assumption that we are aging out our fleet and getting off of cng until the fuel market comes back around to us uh in order to break even on just the cng conversion for the vehicles you're looking at about a 60 cent difference between diesel and cng for us to break even totally it's about a dollar 22 difference and that's got to be sustained over a five to seven year period and so that's again that's not something we've seen recently um the station would give us the opportunity to convert some light duty vehicles if we wanted to go that route in the future okay all right so uh the retrofit again is an option we would not recommend it's it's about 2.5 million dollars to the negative there the last two options this is building the station at the alternative fuel station as currently designed and contemplated the biggest difference between these two is really a policy decision for the council of do we want to offer public sales or not and i have a few slides that i 'll go into more detail on this one of the things i will point out is i have not accounted for revenue for public sales in scenario four the reason why is we believe that's going to be de minimis there's probably not much of a market for cng fuel right now we have some things working against us as well we're kind of off the beaten path most cng vehicles are probably long-haul vehicles that highway accessibility is something they're going to look at we also don't have the fringe benefits of kind of a qt or a racetrack where you're selling jerky and some of the things like that so the other thing that i would say and i'm probably getting ahead of myself a little bit is competition wise if qt and racetrack and some of those haven't put these in yet it probably means that there's not much of a market for it as of yet so all those kind of put into there we're not counting on much in terms of revenue from public sales and so yes sir dcta are they compress natural gas some of them we've had some feelers i don't know the answer to that off the top of my head we've had some feelers from like dcta unt i think everyone is kind of in the position of let 's wait and have someone put in the infrastructure before we commit so the school district the ist doesn't have any it's all not to my knowledge have you asked the school district not specifically because at one time they had a number of their school buses that were and they actually were fueling at their bus barn you which was something i was going to suggest is that that you at least check with that and see because it may be better for us to to if they're if i'm right and i 've been wrong before i've also been right before uh it may be that we could buy it from them and not have to build something on their own i would like to see that's definitely something we're open to i know talking to public utilities board yesterday they had similar comments and so and that would be at the bus barn off of mayhills sort of behind ryan isaac okay we'll go try to fill up tomorrow and see how that works council member that's that's definitely a best option best case scenario for us thank you thank you i have a different spin on disd i think and and it may be far too complicated it may be doable but i'd like to know the answer if if we could partner with them and if we're talking about a conversion i'm assuming there's some sort of kit and there 's some sort of steps laid out that people have done in the past i know you've said it's not with great success which means it's probably fairly complicated but they have a department at the atc that does mechanic work right and so if we're going to spend some money to get this done and and there's a method where we can invest in our school district to buy some equipment to get that done and lay out a template hey use one truck as a lab rat and and and see what that path forward looks like now we're we're working on you know a labor source that needs that and two we also could maybe attract other cities that that uh are in need if we have any level of success but so i don't know what that looks like if it's an option but if it's hey we can get the tools and it costs this much and it gives those kids and some experience in diesel mechanics slash cng work and and we get a general uh good working vehicle out of it i i would like to know if that's an option so in regards to the conversion are you talking about the the conversion to cng or conversion back to diesel or maintenance or conversion back to diesel okay so if we what does that look like because i 'm assuming someone's done it and there's a template laid out for it obviously selling it doesn't make good sense uh so for me so it for me it's a matter of even if we have to invest in some equipment but we in the truck is you know we don't know mixed results but even still i think we could fine tune that and get better results because it's our in-house labor and we we can add some specifications and they're learning kind of on our dime if you will uh i would just at least like to know what the what the mechanic supervisor there at uh the uh atc thinks about that as an option i mean i know he's walking through their convertible bus to that food truck so i mean they they have welding they have a lot of that that equipment currently okay we could we can certainly follow up on that uh that point um you know to see if we have any uh different experience converting the the vehicles back to diesel i think that it's probably not going to make as much economic sense is just either is building out the cng or coming to an alternative uh fueling uh price you're looking at probably an extra million to million and a half dollars to do that um we're happy to ask the question we're also happy to approach i think yesterday ups was suggested to us as well that's correct so we'll approach all of these organizations that you've brought up today um and then bring me back to you but i really like to let him get through the last couple of options because right now barring some new information that we might be able to partner these are probably our most uh cost-effective options because we're obviously losing you know six figures a month on this decision so it's it's about a 30 to 60 thousand dollar loss each month is what we 're incurring and so uh one last thing on the the retrofitting conversion the other thing that the public utilities board brought up yesterday is could we age some of these trucks out prematurely and convert back to diesel in that manner and that that may be a more cost-effective approach to this um that being said i know we we tried to stop an order earlier this year we've some of these are fairly new and so it's it's recently purchased within the last one to two years so the last two options again the biggest difference here because we believe public sales are going to be de minimis is the six hundred thousand dollar grant from the tceq and so on these first three scenarios really what you're looking at is returning the the portion of the grant that we've already expended if we do like to do full public sales then we would realize the the additional or the remainder of that grant um so with these options here on the board really what we as staff looked at is the most viable out of these four is the last two and so um i'll flip to the next slide and kind of walk through a different comparison for you these are five year totals that is correct this 527 cumulus accumulation of five years all those bottom are five years that's correct okay so looking at this chart the choices are from one where we lose about six million dollars over five years to choice from column four where we lose about half a million that's correct it reminds me of a movie i saw where they said well these are all bad choices and the staff said yes well we're just recommending the best bad choice that we have is that what you're doing which which leg would you like us to amputee so um i will try to turn this around put a little bit more of a positive spin on it um because we do have uh we can compare that to diesel which is essentially what that first pro forma was if we compare it to what we're doing today which is the mobile fueling platform is really what this pro forma provides you so essentially all of these figures up here are the same down to the net income net loss um the difference is is with the mobile fuel or with the fueling station fully realized we would be saving uh quite a bit of money over the next five years if we got off of the mobile fueling platform and so to todd's point earlier um the quicker that we can get off of the mobile fueling platform whether it's back to diesel or to cng uh that's when you start realizing these savings right here could you go back to the last slide yes sir i just want to look at something okay all right because i noticed the 797 420 but you've got fuel cost savings 270 takes us down to 527 410 so how does that flow into your the very next slide where you've got is that 270 11 included in that other fuel cost go ahead and go to the next yeah so what this is down here i'll explain it here and then i'll explain the next one so this 270 is really about a 22 cent per gallon difference between cng at our alternative fuel station versus diesel market diesel prices and so as we go over here the the difference between those that you get to that 1.7 this is cng market versus the mobile fueling c ng so that's why those those amounts are different does that make sense sure it does but i mean and i appreciate you comparing it to the mobile cng market but we know that's not an option we want to do well no i'm saying i think that the the the cost scenario in the previous slide i mean is i mean yes that's what we're spending but there's no way we're going to agree to continue spending that money so it's saying well that we're comparing it to this that we're not willing to do anyway so yeah we 're saving that extra money but that's if we were continuing to spend that money over those five years which we would be insane if we did that so to me the other one is the loss of five five hundred ninety seven thousand dollars over five years to get us out of this problem right one other thing not not to muddy the waters any but the other thing to consider on your your cng station in line that's that's issued with 20 year debt and so this does go beyond the five-year picture that we have here the one thing that i think i think the station will give us the opportunity to do is to capture revenues if we don't want to do full public sales we can also contract with folks like unt dcta on an ad hoc basis but the one opportunity that the fuel station does give us is if the fuel market does come back around to us then it does give us an advantage to take it to capitalize on that so the debt service is 1.2 million for 20 years uh no that's this is over a five-year period times four so it'd be about almost five million dollars that's correct okay i'm sorry council member husband to to that to that point has legal looked at the requirements for the public sales all right so you got me in my next slide if i can go through that sweet so so i mentioned a little bit earlier that and i'll be honest none of us have ever run a gas station and so uh this is a little bit out of our realm of expertise but it essentially the difference between public sales no public sales in our mind is a six hundred thousand dollar grant uh one if you're asking for staff's recommendation between those two alternatives we would recommend not pursuing public sales as prescribed by the the grant uh the reason why is as you state that there's probably some liabilities and some things there that we haven't anticipated um also the the public access and security out at that fuel island is probably going to need some work i read a news article the other day about skimmers on the card readers at gas stations and stuff we don't want to be putting any of our clients in in danger of that stuff happening to them we need to have some security cameras we need to plan for accidents things of that nature and so all of those are things that i'm not comfortable saying that we've had this thoroughly v etted to that end you also have some administrative costs and we're going to have to consider uh service costs uh there's going to be need to be reconciliation of the books there's going to be all that stuff that we aren't doing today and so i think it's it's not a stretch for me to say we're going to spend six hundred thousand dollars in cost related to this type of stuff over the next four to five years councilman husband well and i was a little different there i'm saying the requirements understand your your assessment that we're not doing them now but i'm curious what those requirements are and if we're if we can be closer then we look based on how the requirements structure does that make sense at all so i'm wondering if if they if if it's if they leave wiggle room in there for what public access and kind of what the requirements are i i want to i want to understand how well those are spread out are spelled out versus what we're doing now or what's available to us you're talking about the you're talking about the grant and yes yeah yeah so what what those requirements are based and and look at that what we're doing versus what the requirements are and kind of do an analysis of here's the here's what's required to meet this this threshold okay we haven't done that yet to my knowledge but we will certainly run that through legal thank you councilmember briggs what has the grant been spent on so far 200 000 or something but do we know what those items nick b enson he's one of our operations managers here nick do you have an idea if he could come up to the mic that'd be great thank you hello we do have a detailed list i'll have to put it together for you and i can provide that to you so we do have to report to tcq what it's funding so we do have it i'll get it to you okay yeah so it was just that we were buying things for this project well it has to do with the compressors the dispensers the dryers it's all for it's an equipment grant basically so the dispensers the credit card readers those things okay yeah it doesn't really cover concrete infrastructure cost gas line cost expansion it doesn't really cover that stuff it's more of equipment okay yeah so what you're saying basically is the 600 000 is is looks helpful but in the end isn't going to be enough to sustain the gas station yeah we 're anticipating operations and maintenance costs that are going to exceed the value of the grant right would be my assumption and so absolutely it helps the the equipment cost it prevents us from issuing 600 000 in debt because it can fund like nick said the the pumps and some of the the tanks but from an ongoing operations expense once that money runs out then we're still going to be paying those operations and maintenance so i guess what i was trying to find out is the stuff that we've already spent the money on can it be returned i mean or have we already opened it is it being you know what i'm saying like is it are we we just lost it are we writing it all or my we haven't verified that yet i know we've had some cursory discussions with the folks zy de energy who we bought that equipment from my gut or my suspicion would be that we would pay at the very least a restocking fee or something along those lines as we return those if that's council's direction we can certainly go back to them and try to get a little bit finer idea of what that would entail is this your last one oh yeah we have next steps depending on council direction and so uh we do have uh if council gives the direction that we want to move forward with the construction of the gas line which again one of the things that we want to try to seek direction from today is we feel like the option we're on now is the option that we need to get away from and so if the decision with council or the recommendation from council is we don't know if we want to offer public sales but we know we want to build the facility then we can go ahead and get started online construction and moving the project forward if you have apprehension about that then we don't want to move forward with the station then this next step wouldn't be there with the station and moving forward with construction there would also be a gas delivery agreement that we would need to enter into that would be an item that would come back through the pub and council as well as a purchase agreement for the gas itself and then finally you would be looking at opening the fuel facility our guess is if we got the green light today to move forward with this we could open the facility in as little as six mines so a couple questions yes sir if we could go back to the your options with the associated costs not with the fuel savings of the uh that that one previous one uh yeah that one okay so the debt service for this station is over 20 years is that right that's my understanding so when i'm looking at these numbers and i'm looking at after the fuel costs we're at 1.107478 loss over this five-year period now cannot i'm just for the sake of discussion i'm just going to go okay 20-year debt is 20-year program i'm going to multiply that times four so that's five million dollars that's four million bucks that that's how i 'm now i'm getting some shakes of the head okay that's fine that's what i'm trying because i 'm trying to understand do we want to i mean do we just bite the bullet now on whatever option we need to just try to get away from this because we're really making the decision we're moving forward with compressed natural gas as a policy decision for the next 20 years or we're going to leave some debt stranded we're going to leave some equipment stranded if we decide ah this isn't for us we're just going to let all these trucks sort of time out and we're going to replace them with diesel vehicles so what i don't want to do i mean so we're trying to stop the bleeding short term but we're also making a decision long term about a policy decision is it am i understanding this correctly you're hitting the nail on the head okay all right so now help me understand why my analysis of that multiplication factor of four is is off base okay so mayor i see what you 're saying about the debt service i do believe it's 10 year debt so this is a five year analysis so if you were to take the 1.2 million dollars and double it it puts you around the 2.4 million okay because what i'm doing is i'm taking the fuel i'm taking this bottom line number of 1 .107 478 million that's what we've lost over five years which is over a couple hundred thousand dollars a year so now what i'm hearing you say is this whole debt service cost of the project under station number under the third option all this performa that's really two five year looks in other words you could say here's the first five years and if we had another here's the second five years i 'm just adding in the two of those together which would be 2.2 million that's correct this is okay that 's five years this is five years yeah if you were to take this debt service number well sorry let me go over in point real quick um here you could double it be 2.4 million if you were to take this number down here you could double it for 10 years right right because the equipment's not gonna the majority of the fueling equipment's probably not going to last 20 years no no that's fine i'm just trying to because i to say over 10 years we will have lost a couple hundred thousand dollars a year as compared to eating 24 vehicles and repurchasing 24 vehicles what are those things cost per vehicle diesel so diesel is probably around 280 cng is probably around 320 280 000 dollars a year yes sir for a front loader rear loader truck okay times 20 that's that's five that's 5.6 million dollars right there so okay i just want to make yep if we have about 40 vehicles now what is their life expectancy are they i'm assuming we're not going to buy any more of these and if they're we only have 40 are they really going to last 10 more years no i mean the the the life cycle of these vehicles is typically between five to seven years and so i appreciate the clarification of the 20 year debt so if that's 10 year debt the uh if you'll follow my mouse here a lot of this debt service right here for incremental truck costs will start to roll off in the out years we can see some of that roll off as soon as 2018 2019 some of what we won't be done with until 2024 2025 and so this this picture does change it's not it's probably not as simple as doubling this up for the 10 year cycle uh this picture should get a little bit that 's worst case scenario that's worst case scenario absolutely council member riggs i believe had a question so just for clarification we have around 25 of vehicles or 40 24 24 okay and just recently purchased some and you said life cycle about five years five to seven years typically five to seven years and so what we're trying to decide is in five years are we going to keep buying these vehicles are we going to switch back over right is that the policy decision you're talking about okay we've stopped the investment in the cng vehicles okay so we're ordering strictly so we're going to roll we're going to let all these run through their life cycle our recommendation i mean again we can go back and really study the the ability to either age out the fleet prematurely or retrofit again we think that the cost is going to exceed whatever our losses would be over a 10 year period of doing that and so our strategy or our recommended strategy would be let's age out the fleet let's do whatever we need to do in terms of infrastructure or fueling agreements to kind of bridge that gap and get us there yeah because what you're saying is if they're five to seven year life cycle and we're not replacing them this is 10 year debt then there's probably going to come a gap where we may not have any cng vehicles and we're just going to have a station out there you're absolutely and this thing will just convert to we're paying the debt service i mean with maybe some upkeep so we'll have a natural gas filling station with no natural gas vehicles that's a possibility absolutely now and that's that we're still paying that's that's one of the options again the the tceq uh grant is the stipulations of that grant is this is how public sales will be offered uh if we return the grant and we say we're going to use this for our purposes there's nothing to stop us from contracting with someone else or offering sales on our own accord and so those are some things that we would investigate so that we don't just have stranded debt service out there that we're paying on with no revenue council member and just so we're uh reconciling everything what is what is the environmental difference between diesel cng and kind of what what is that i'm glad you asked dr banks was looking tired or a little bored over there so i'm gonna i'm gonna ask him to come up and address those questions actually had it queued up i suspected that that might come up so you're a smart guy so um good afternoon or good evening council i'll try to to go through this as as quickly as i can the the fuel platform that we're comparing here is compressed natural gas versus biodiesel b20 that's what the fleet actually runs in solid waste what i chose to do to use for this analysis and it's a relatively standard approach is to use a model that was produced by argon national laboratories for the department of energy called greet it stands for the greenhouse gas regulated emissions and energy use and transportation and i think it's a good program to evaluate this system because it doesn't only look at the emissions that come out of the tail pipe of these vehicles as they operate it does what's referred to as a wells to wheel analysis so basically it's looking at all the upfront emissions associated with the production of the fuel platform whatever it may be and then all the way through the actual use of the material itself and so uh fortunately we have a a program that's available that allows us to look at that full life cycle that's been peer reviewed and vetted out this is the 2016 version and it's a fairly sophisticated model it can do a lot of different analyses you can see the wells to wheels component up here at the up at the top we chose to use a refuse truck platform and ran the analysis with c and g and b20 basically on a per mile basis so that we would be able to look at them as if they were the same vehicle 2015 model c and g 2015 model b20 everything else the same on a on a per mile basis you can see that there's a lot of of output associated with this model these are this is just the first little part of the of the output so i wanted to try to summarize it down to things that i think are important for this area so we looked at total energy in production volatile organic compounds carbon monoxide nitrogen oxides particulate matter of 10 microns are less particulate matter of 2.5 microns or less sulfur oxides methane co2 and nitrous nitrous oxide it's a little bit hard obviously to compare the two the a lot of data there so what i tried to do was summarize it up and do a very quick b22 c and g comparison for those compounds on a percentage basis and what i've done is i've separated it out from the what's referred to as the wtp the wells to pump component of the emission and then the actual operation itself and then the total so the way this analysis works is that anything that is less than 100 would indicate that the b20 is producing less of that particular emission or requiring less energy etc than the compressed natural gas so you can see real quickly that that in terms of total energy and volatile organic compounds and especially for carbon monoxide the b20 platform produces much less of those of those compounds in operation it produces about double the nitrogen oxides that's new in part to the b20 fuel it produces a little bit more oxygen just in the in the combustion and therefore combined with the nitrogens and the fuel produces more nitrogen ox ides but if you look at the the wells to pump component associated with compressed natural gas it actually produces a lot more than b20 so at the end of the day it produces a little bit more nitrogen oxides but not a not a huge amount more comparatively you've got a more pm 10 and again in operation they're producing exactly the same but the the upstream on b20 is going to be higher for pm 10 pm 2.5 and just a little bit higher for sulfur oxides here's where the big difference comes in b20 produces much less methane when operating and much less for the overall total life cycle so you get the upstream components it produces a whole lot less methane and the operation it produces a whole lot less methane okay thanks we have a question yes yes mayor protain okay we're in non-att ainment for voc nox and co is that right we're non-attainment for ozone and so ozone is is going to be derived from nitrogen oxides and vocs the relative proportion of nitrogen oxides and vocs is what 's going to drive the production of ozone so it depends on whether you're in a nox limiting situation or voc limiting situation and i can go over that in a little bit more detail if you'd like i've got another maybe offline i think his question basically was from an environmental perspective overall right in your professional opinion is net are the compressed natural gas vehicles worse for our environment given our non-attainment and all these other things than than the is that basically was that in essence your question we can go through all the signs um yes that's okay okay all right all right so um i i guess if you if you take a look at this and this component where i've done the cng to b20 right here yes from a nitrogen oxide and voc production standpoint in a nitrogen oxide limiting situation which we are in a fair amount of time uh we also have transitional where it could be either or it's going to be slightly worse from an ozone production standpoint but the use of the cng vehicle compared to the b20 is going to be much worse from a global warming potential because of the methane and because of some of the other uh constituents okay great so that's the so the answer is maybe yeah oh yeah it's it's uh it's it's kind of one of those deals of of trying to decide which is the more important issue it's slightly worse under nitrogen oxide limiting situation for ozone um it is going to be much worse you can see these global warming potential factors uh right here and right here in terms of uh greenhouse gas emissions okay great does that answer your question council member husbeth yes i don't know that i understand what he just said though i really don't yeah which was which was slightly worse so set global warming aside uh-huh and what was the other one uh basically uh ozone production okay and that is slightly that it was slightly worse on which on the on when you have a nitrogen diesel oxide limiting situation you're going to be slightly worse on the diesel than you are on a compressed natural gas system got it thank you sure thank you yeah i i do want to point out just because i know this is televised these numbers are slightly different than what i provided to the public utility board yesterday we went back and tried to find a a current version of the global warming potential factors and so those factors are are more modern if you will than the ones that i used in the analysis yesterday just if anyone wants to compare great thanks sure just a comment i really appreciate the life cycle analysis it would have been nice to have that analysis in other contexts as well so thank you so much for doing that sure so that brings us to questions or an encore whichever council seems fit a couple one real quick question on the actual gas compressed natural gas you said we need to build a line from somewhere to somewhere to our station this is going to sound like a silly question but we are burning off natural gas because our generation can't take it is there is there any opportunity to to instead of burning that gas off use that unless there's a compression facility that we just can't do i'm just it's it just seems silly we're going to be bringing in natural gas compressed all mind right albeit but then we're burning off flaring off methane gas at the landfill and all this is happening basically at the landfill so i'm going to have dr banks out of the corner of my eye because this this may be a little bit above my head okay come on this is an easy answer yes this is an easy answer yes uh there there are uh ways that you've got to keep in mind that the landfill gas is is got a lot of cleanup that has to be done got you that 's and so it can be done but it is going to make it much more expensive than what you can buy that you said yeah it's not processed it's just raw yep okay all right council member grave do we need to give direction on this i think we're at this this point yes i'm not in favor of of the gas station okay so um all right so then your your direction is not in favor of a gas station okay all right so so i guess i guess i'm well i mean that's why i'm saying i hear that i don't know that in five years we're going to have this gas station and we're going to not have the vehicles to put the natural gas in so i just i'm i don't really know exactly the best way to get to the future i mean we're going to lose money it just seems like a stranded asset and we'll have to do if we don't have it anymore we'll have to clean it up and that is a whole extra amount of money as far as um the commissioners are cleaning it up so clean it up you mean tearing it down tearing it down so do we know is that included in any of these calls it is not now now we do have the other alternative fuels at that station already and so in terms of the infrastructure that we're going to be building there's actually two pumps or two areas for pumps out there already and so in terms of decommissioning nick i don't know just yeah we haven't run that out yet that's something we can certainly look at but it's not a matter of taking out the whole station it would just be a matter of decommissioning those specific pumps if we choose to do that and gas lines i would assume that atmos or zyte could help us tie off that gas line if we wanted to um there's other scenarios if the gas line that's about six hundred thousand dollars extra um you know we have had cursory looks at some other alternatives but there's all complications with those that prevented us from including that in the analysis if i if i could try to help out a little bit here um i think we're really down to probably two suggestions one would be we i think it's a great idea to go reach out to some of these other entities and see if anyone's got a platform we could share and avoid this altogether if that does not happen um we can certainly work internally to restructure the co's that are out there to seven years to match the length of the brand new trucks um which would make you know into i think to your point it's a good one we can always redirect those additional portion of those co's to some other project and put some cash in there so it's a at least we've got an asset that matches the the trucks um you know and then i don't think decommissioning is that difficult we're probably going to recommend number four based on based on ethan's analysis of getting into the retail business in in trying to stem some of the the loss of revenue here but i think those would probably be the two choices um makes a lot of sense to not have debt on for an asset that you're not using for three years so we can we can easily restructure that internally i would just be curious to to pursue a little bit further the pu b board's uh recommendation or suggestion to look at uh accelerating the decommissioning of those trucks because um you know it might not be a whole lot more than than the than the loss that we're looking at over the 10-year period in fact it might be less so you're suggesting if there's routes that might put some additional more miles on them and and to where they'd be be commissioned out of the fleet quicker yes okay we can look at that the one thing about doing that is is it's really just going to accelerate our fuel consumption uh with the existing platform uh one one of the things we talked to the public utilities board about yesterday is perhaps half of this fleet is is it would be a financially feasible option for early replacement uh the the ones that we've purchased in the last two or three years those are the ones where you're really going to have a big financial loss on so but we're happy to take a look at that and we'll report back on what that option what i hear you saying though is if we if we don't do it let's say for instance not in favor of the gas station we're now down to a couple of options one is we retrofit all the uh and convert to diesel which is 2.5 million dollars now that's only that's that this is a five-year look but that is not only just one time shot 2.5 million retrofit them all it's probably going to be a bit more than that but uh it's it's a one-time shot you're you're I mean it could be I would I would tell you this mayor out of these four options that's the one I'm least comfortable with because it's the one that we haven't run down all the potential costs but but you're absolutely correct in terms of it's it's going to be a one-time deal in your in your out whereas with mobile fueling the first one if we don't do the gas station then we've got to start decommissioning as quick as possible or we retrofit but in the meantime we're still having to buy mobile fuel and you know even if you got rid of half the trucks you're still at a three million dollar you're still at three four million dollar number that's correct so it's really an economic decision I mean what is the one that costs us the least amount of money and gets us out of this the quickest and what I'm hearing you say is on option number three you're throwing a little bit of extra cash to get the debt service down to where it's a seven-year amortization on the debt which matches the life of the trucks and then once as the trucks keep going out and as they finally the last one we sell everything's done we close it up figure out how much the decommission cost it's just a gas line I wouldn't think it's going to be a whole lot of money it's not like a cold plant and that way and so really then number two is really not an option because what I heard you just say is I don't know how how accurate that number is I would want to go sharpen our pencils on it and get back with you on it because the anecdotal evidence we received from fleet is it's about an 80,000 conversion back to diesel you know if we look to salvage and replace these as quickly as we can that's an option that we really just have we haven't investigated fully so we'd need to do some work on that okay so we got one that so council member Greaves that was my question you don't want to do I'm gonna call it the gas station so then of the options that are left of the options that are sorry DTP of the options that are left what are you what are you suggesting well what was just talked about number three with the the debt services that's the best thing for the city and financial I'm okay with that but that's building the gas station is that correct well I guess from what I'm understanding is everything is already built this is just adding the station is in place there would be some additional infrastructure that need to be added in to facilitate the so the fueling for CNG like Nick mentioned a moment ago there's equipment purchases that need to be made and there's also some some work on the side but that that's what options three and four would include in there okay okay I think I'm in favor of option five which is to check with other entities to see if we can partner with them first and then after that I would I would go to number three because you know fuel is a commodity and we don't know five or seven years from now diesel may be way back up and compress natural gas that you know whether it's on that part of our fleet or some other part of our fleet that could be an option down the road as well I should find and then and now pick the other that up did you say pick it later well I would take four because it's the least costly to us am I reading that right the one thing between three and four is is that's your public sales component offering full public sales is option number four that gets you the six hundred thousand dollars in grant funds but back to this slide is there's some risk there that again we 're not just running gas stations and so we believe that the cost may exceed the value of that grant in option four so almost get me but that's my riddle I agree with everything John said that he said pretty much what I said we really don't know what diesel is going to be three five years from now and and for that matter we don't know what the gas is going to be and we just try I have yeah so I have no traction here and I get it but my my my ultimate thing is if we're gonna we're gonna lose money in theory I sure would rather lose it to our students but or at least understand that understanding that that has no traction I just want to put that out there that that's my that's my preference now joining the rest of the group I think yes I'd like to see I just can't I hazard to guess that there's someone out there that you know between Peterbilt between DISD between all these other entities maybe someone else is is invested in that regard and so yeah I think absent converting them I think we are we'll first explore who else has has that availability and then I think we you know I fall in line with John in that regard to kind of just proceed based on that but in thinking how to what does it go to right so if we're the mobile gas went up because no one else is buying it because they need to recoup their cost I'm assuming I'm not a you know but so I I think I just don't like I have a saying at my house I'm not gonna put anybody through college I don't know and so I just think that that's my thing I just have a hard time not reinvesting in our community at every opportunity sure okay option three for me okay yeah and and what I would like is if we could get some information back on the different partnerships and it'd be very quick but if we could put it back on the agenda come back and present that information to the public and I think you've got direction on option three but I'd like to have a as we get additional information sort of come together and parse we're not going to go near through this presentation because we've got it all narrowed down but that's critical information that I think would be important okay that's what we needed okay oh yes I'm sorry I just wanted to mention that I emailed Christina Brevard at DCTA and the buses that they use at DCTA are propane but they're released from I'm sorry they're CNG they're at least from Fort Worth um Fort Worth Transit Authority and they're fueled there and maintain there thank you okay uh per council's request and staff's request we will move on to our special called meeting and we will take up the closed session after a special call meeting so I guess we're ready the city council will now convene in a special call meeting at 6 37 p.m to consider the following items and agenda item number one is the consent agenda council member Briggs council member Ryan I will second all right we have a motion and a second for approval of all the items on the consent agenda all in favor please signify by raising your right hand passes unanimously we will save concluding items for well let's just go ahead and do concluding items then we'll move on to our closed session council member Briggs so that was really helpful to see the full cycle of the greet analysis and I'm wondering if there's something like that we can do for the gas plant just so we know and the globing warming potential of that that was that was really helpful to see so if there 's some sort of process or analysis we can do okay and and if uh you and dr banks may touch base just to make sure that you're y'all are on the same page as far as what information you 're looking for uh mayor pro tem yes um I wanted to follow up on something that we discussed during the police presentation regarding school resource officers and I think during that discussion we had discussed perhaps taking an informal survey of the mo use between isds and cities to to investigate what the typical funding relationship is between the city and the isd for the school resource officer if we've already gotten a staff report I apologize I okay well all right thank you okay member Gregory and then we'll go to ryan thanks along with that I think when we've had information on that before they've also told us a cost analysis of the number of times that officers are dispatched especially to the secondary schools because there's some kind of a cost efficiency factor of having them there also so that might be part of it my comment is I was doing a bike ride this morning to check out the new lanes on oak street and I ended up taking a spin through the I double o f cemetery and was pleased to see that our contractor is out doing restoration of some of the monuments so that was that was good to see and I got to visit with them and see the steps that they took in trying to straighten some of those things out and prolong their life expectancy thank you mayor I had a great conversation with one of our traffic engineers this week and amongst the many problems that we have in four and the multitude of construction that's about to hit one of the biggest issues on the city side is ryan road at country club that if especially since country club is under constrictor about to go under construction right now if we can look at adding a second lane so you've got a right and a left and maybe about you know so about maybe four or five cars could could be in a left turn lane there so that people coming down ryan because I know that gets backed up in the mornings past the the elementary school there it's you can have 30 to 50 cars backed up are you talking about a turn lane on ryan road or country club road on on ryan road country club is is a text out highway okay so while text that is doing that construction if we can look at possibly adding that extra lane that could help facilitate traffic through there my understanding is there was a traffic study sometime back in the majority of the turner the majority of the cars were turning right and that is the reason text that will not add a stoplight there is because there's so few left-hand turns anybody else i've just got yes may protein i forgot something um sunday these stickers were by my car vanguard america it's a white nationalist organization and they like to put these things places that they i don't know i think they have some effect so i'll be putting these they 're stickers so i'm going to put them in places they belong and post them on the internet and you 're more than welcome to look at what i do with them thank you um i've just got one and i think we're doing this already but you know we talked a little bit it was alluded to in the solid waste presentation about the mining operation or and and i'm assuming we're doing a cost analysis on the mining operation like we have on this cng because i've always wondered how we can pull trash out of the ground and it'd be cost-effective but so i'm assuming we're doing that it's currently underway okay and so we'll be having a similar report coming back on that as well all right thank you any others concluding items if not then i will go ahead and convene the closed session at 6 42 p.m on january the 25th 2017 we will consider the following items consultation with attorneys under texas government code section 551.071 and deliberations regarding certain public power utility competitive matters under texas government code section 551.086