May 02, 2017 City Council on 2017-05-02 2:00 PM

Moving through our agenda we'll go to agenda item number one citizen comments on consent agenda items. We have one card wishing to speak Mr. Willie Hutspeth if you'll come state your name and address your time will begin. How many minutes do I have for this? Is it three? Let me get back. Mayor and City Council my name is Willie Hutspeth I live at 623 Newton. I want to talk briefly about the agenda items. These the following are the ones that I asked that you pull and have discussion about them all of them have to do with contracts given I don't expect you to pull them but I need to say it anyway. I'd like to pull so we could talk about if the contractors minority contractors are considered at CE and F authorizing the tax municipal power agency. Yes I like F pulls so that we can we can hear what what's happening there and it's awarding of the the plan that's going to be put forward that's F and also now that's all of that. Now in the other items that's on the agenda if if African Americans can't be buried in an I double-of-f cemetery which is discussion the prior direction card and small no not that second no see see the report yes see work session item C if African Americans cannot be buried and it's not clear that we can other than whites the thing read the the abstract indicates specifically that only whites can be buried in the I double-of-f. Agenda item three of the work session C. Okay all right okay I'm sorry go ahead. This is the one where you're talking about improving that facility that place. I want my tax dollars back if you're going to do something there I want from the I was moved here in 1969 latter part of earlier 69 I want my money back because I can't be buried out there if you're going to spend my tax dollars give me my tax dollars back. Secondly the firefighters. Mr. Hesbeth I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and let you finish with your time but this particular item on the consent on the agenda is for comment on consent agenda items not on any agenda item on the agenda primarily for consent I'm gonna go ahead and finish I just you've not strayed okay before and into agenda items that are on the rest of the agenda so but so whatever time I've used will give that back to him 237 yeah okay let all right okay well then that's all I have okay thank you okay moving on to request for clarification of agenda items listed on agenda for May 2nd 2017 we'll just start down here Councilmember Briggs. I would like to pull A F and H F and H for presentation I know that H we had a presentation once before there was some confusion on the land purchase because it was divided up just for public clarification on what's going on there okay so do you want presentations on F and H what about A no okay all right Councilmember Hawkins. If we're pulling F I can just wait and have the presentation then I just had a couple questions okay sure thank you anybody else yes yes sir thank you there will not be a need for executive session 1A today and we will also ask that the council poll consent item 4A as well so that will not be acted on today there is also and I will defer the city attorney explain this in 5C there's been a clarifying ordinance passed out from our development services director and as the interim city attorney to explain the the change that was made to that yes and the caption on the top of the first page of the ordinance that was distributed to you that's labeled 5C there was a change made to the opening language to be consistent with the agenda caption that appears before you for tonight so that it's it is consistent and should you choose to act upon it you may do so okay anybody else on yes customer here yes that's correct if I could pull item C and E okay you want a staff presentation on those okay was there any others councilmember Gary okay I'm sorry anybody all right so let me make sure I've got this oh I'm sorry go ahead on consent agenda item E just uh and I'm sorry I did not send this in ahead of time but in the backup it said that there were 136 prospective vendors that that information was sent to and they only got one response and I was wondering if there was any that seems like a very odd ratio of one response to 136 inqu iries for the tennis contract and I don't see anybody here that can answer that question well I think there's gonna be a presentation at in the open meeting because E is being pulled so we'll see if we can't have that I'm sorry I didn 't realize that thank you you bet all right so going back to consent agenda item a councilman Briggs you wanted it pulled for so you but you didn't want staff discussion but what I'm understanding from the city managers it's not ready to be heard in general that's right so we're pulling it off the agenda altogether right okay all right and so that leaves us with agenda items C E F and H and it's my understanding that there is a staff presentation desired on each one of those that are pulled and if that's what we're gonna do unless somebody speaks up now and says they don't require a staff presentation on okay all right then we'll go on to our work session reports work session 3a receive report and hold discussion and provide staff direction regarding the creation of a small area plan and implementation strategy good afternoon members of the council very excited to make this presentation today we've all waited a while to come forward for the City Council and make this presentation and what we originally refer to as the fry Street small area plan if you notice we have called it now the sex sector one South neighborhood small area plan and there's a reason for that so if you'd bear with me I'd like to give us a little bit of everybody a bit of background we adopted the comprehensive plan our Denton plan 2030 in 2015 and as part of the recommendations of that plan was one one of which was to encourage small area planning and to implement small area plans and as we started reviewing that one of one we paid keen attention to the five Street overlay district just because it was our first small area plan in the city and we wanted to evaluate that and understand the associated constraints of that overlay district in association with that small area plan and as we started diving into that and researching and we did a boots on the ground survey to discern what is what are the existing conditions there we realized that perhaps we need to revisit the entire concept of small area planning as it relates to this area and the map in front of you which is also in your backup shows different color codes and I'm going to first talk to you about the fry Street overlay district which is the shape and I hope my mosque is carrying there which is this shape right here and then within this overlay district we had two components and we saw some activity as it relates to development where it was requiring variances to the overlay district as part of that small area plan and one of the elements that came out of there was to perhaps revisit and study this small area plan and expand the boundaries of that fry Street overlay district and associated small area plan as a result when we started researching what are the what should the meets and bounds of this small area plan be we first initially carved out this section that you can see here in red while we were evaluating that we realized when we started doing some surveys and visiting these sites that there were several established albeit older residential neighborhoods there were historic districts in there there was commercial development that needed some attention there was new commercial development there was multifamily development there was perhaps collegiate housing as well associated with that and of course we had the overriding factor of the university itself and the associated properties that they own and based on that it was determined that we need to in fact further enhance and increase these boundaries and that's what you see in the black bolt here because the impact of the development associated with the university was key protection of our established neighborhoods was a key element associated with that there was a lot of development pressure that was that is being realized in this area as well and of course with this small area plan the intent to develop standards that would be appropriate to provide the relevant transitions cohesiveness in design compatibility of uses and districts and most of all visit the infrastructure and the mobility aspects associated with that and by way of update we went ahead and we prepared a scope of services or a scope of work and we put out an RFQ this request for qualifications basically had several elements to it one was a public education and participation or a public outreach program and is an assessment of the existing conditions on site there an evaluation of the land uses which was not only the residential aspects but also the retail and the commercial aspects associated with it reviewing development standards that would would provide the appropriate transitions not just in scale but as well as use as well as land use patent development and of course the university and the UNT properties and to have strategies to buffer and enhance the historic districts we are also going to as part of this scope of services require an evaluation of the street network system the street design standards and their and the mobility of those that infrastructure for all types of users parking recommendation or parking solution as it relates to that entire area and an evaluation of the housing stock and what should be promoted and what special or specific design standards need to be brought into play to have conservation of single-family districts there based on that we are hopeful that just to give you some update on March 29th we issued this RFQ on April 18th we received those were our submittal deadlines this week we will be conducting interviews with the top three ranked firms and on May 8th next week we hope to have an evaluation and a negotiation session and then on May 23rd we're hopeful to come forward with a contract contract for the City Council should the contract be approved we hope to go ahead and initiate or kick off the small area plan and anticipate a completion date of June next year and with that I'd be happy to answer any questions should you have any any questions yes Council member when I saw the the map I was surprised by how large the area had become and I was surprised by the differences of uses that that one can find within that area so I need some education from a professional planner because I would have expected a small area plan to be an area that was smaller not necessarily because the size means particularly anything but maybe an area where there was more congruity within uses so help me understand why we would you know have a plan that includes two historic districts a state university an overlay district you know I mean there's there's a lot of difference between what's going on along interstate 35 and what's going on along Egan and panhandle Street I mean I'm not sure that you could find any two areas that were any more different so please help me understand why we would use this kind of grouping sure absolutely so if we were to look at this if we look at the map that's before you we can actually discern this to be a master planning exercise it's part of your comprehensive plan we're doing a master planning exercise and through that we are identifying this area and the reasons being and I'm going to now touch on the questions that you've asked is we know that there are pressures from those primary from panhandle from Carroll Boulevard from I-35 we see those pressures honing in into this specific area we see conversion of residential housing stock we see commercial development we see parking issues we see infrastructure issues we also see a varied mix of absolutely zoning districts but they're typically falling within the umbrella for instance of the the dr2 is the DCG is the DCN that's a specific zoning district it's that family of zoning district and those are primarily there you have the NR threes for example this the single-family residential zoning district yet within that you have small pockets of historic districts for example one on each side so to speak of each other so this small area plan or this master planning exercise will then further it won't just be an exercise that says well this is what's out there and it's through that evaluation and process that we will discern what do we need to do to one encourage development to have flexibility and development and to ensure the integrity of specific land uses and to realize and understand what do we need to create an overlay district for instance with specific development criteria as it relates to specific uses or zoning district so one of the reasons why it was enhanced was to make sure that we understand because when you look at the concentration of what is happening in this area it is having an impact on those residential uses to the north for example towards panhandle and then you're seeing the really old and residential neighborhoods that are suffering and not getting enough attention and you're seeing a conversion rate in that closer to I-35 for example you're seeing the pressures of UNT master planning and their exercises and the implications of those so we wanted to through a master planning exercise calling it a small area plan that's why it's called the neighborhood small area plan is to bring it all together opportunity to look at historic districts and expanding the historic districts as well enhancing the historic preservation ordinance in itself as well so all those elements will follow through through recommendations of this small area plan and there will be different steps associated with it to protect the integrity of existing developed properties. Two final questions. Sure. I when you talk about a master plan I would understand how that would work if you were master planning Greenfield development but I don't understand how you would master plan established development especially when there are some certain things over the years that happen sort of anomalies of new newer apartments that that got built in a historic district or or so how do you how do you master plan something when you have when it's all built out? So when we talk about master planning perhaps my choice of words was different but when we talk about master planning exercises the goal is to understand are there any redevelop ment or revitalization is there an impetus for that in the area number one and yes we do envision that so that's one of the issues we would be addressing through this small area plan exercise or through the implementation of the recommendations of this development standard so talking about scale and bulk and height and that in the spatial analysis associated with that and that would be those would be the protective tools that you would implement. Okay so it's more some tools to help control what appears to be an area that's subject to redevelopment? Potentially yes. Okay then the other question is and now be done Mira thank you for obliging me the all of that green area is owned by the University of North Texas correct which is the state of Texas and are they in any way obligated to respect our I got a grin out of you a big grin are they in any way obligated to respect the the master planning that we do or can they just have their way with us? I should have rephrased that differently I'm sorry. Through collaboration and discussion and meeting where it's sharing of minds and talking about land use planning and discerning what behoo ves both UNT and the city in general because you've got both uses if you think about it I obviously we will engage them and they will engage us as it relates to this small area plan so in terms of will are they obliged to comply with our development requirements perhaps not but if they foresee that those standards are indeed can enhance their project plan or their master planning exercises and I'm sure we could come we would have a collaboration with them. Are there are there any things that that we can do with this plan to make it to increase the likelihood of them actually cooperating? They are part of our stakeholder team as we move forward with this exercise. Okay thank you. So you mentioned stakeholder team that might be part of the answer to my question because I noticed that the date was about a year from approval to completion so is there like communication and feedback from staff throughout the process or is it they just go do their thing and then come back and say here's what we got? They're actually going to be part of our technical advisory committee which we have established internally we will have a extensive public outreach program as well again when we come back with the outfit that will actually assist in this exercise public outreach is key and public outreach internally and externally okay is key for us. Okay so I've another question I've had some people reach out to me and say that in 2014 there was a comprehensive plan and within that plan to mention the university transition area is this part of that or how does that? Absolutely the the Denton plan 2030 establishes a future land use map. The future land use plan or map it tries to explain how development is envisioned and when we talk about the UNT transition it's actually showing a scale from a more dense to a less dense scale as you move northwards away from the university for example or to the east and that transition plan identifies or that that category or classification in the future land in the comprehensive plan identifies what types of transitions or uses do you see. If there after this study if it is envisioned that that transition university transition area might not be a hundred percent appropriate or needs to be further defined or refined then a comprehensive plan amendment can also occur associated with that. The comprehensive plan is merely a guiding tool and if there any changes that are envisioned with it those can be implemented too. Go ahead. I like this plan and I really like that it encompasses mobility in parking as well. That's great thank you. Well I've been promoting the whole concept of small area plan because it's happening all over the country and happening all over the world. The concept of planning is very easy actually on undeveloped land where you can have a whole palette and decide how you're going to paint it. The challenge comes with cities that are already full of something but as you travel around the country and you visit cities you see that things are changing and developing it doesn't matter what city you're in and before all of that happened there had to be a plan. I applaud the fact that we are looking at bringing a consultant in because it removes the subjectiveness of trying to make decisions in a city where you do have a lot of pressures coming in from a lot of different parts of this area and the fact that you've drawn kind of a big circle doesn't preclude the fact that this big circle could also include in the long-range planning individual overlays in different parts of that section of the city because it's never a one-size-fits-all that takes and encompasses a large part of a city but you can't hire somebody and say take a look at our whole city we had to create some parameters for this consultant to come in and the parameters are here's an area of the city that we'd like you to come and help us take a look at so that 20 years from now the fact that we did plan comes to fruition because it's all long-term it's but the key is plan and I just applaud that it's here and thank you and for other council members yes it's a big area it is a big area but the fact that you can come back and put overlays in different areas is just positive and again going on all over the country so I just applaud the fact that Denton is is here now and thank you for working on this mayor potential could you describe in a bit more detail what will be the deliverable that we get and I think you said June of 2018 the deliverable will be a master planning exercise and I'm using that term a little loosely but a small area exercise part of that or the master plan part of the master part of it and what that would do is that would identify key areas in terms of those that need immediate attention should overlay districts be provided should historic districts be expanded should specific development conditions or criteria be established how many overlay districts what types of overlay districts so through that once they 've identified recognized what needs to be addressed you can then create your specificity associated with that so the plan itself doesn't have any legal status in terms of being able to be a tool during zoning cases or something like that reference tool it would be a reference tool if adopted by the City Council it would be a reference tool that would enable further guidance as it relates to development potentially redevelopment and then what is the city's path for developing an overlay I mean my experience is since I've been paying attention in Denton has been historic districts isn't one example of a zoning overlay correct very robust one but that's pretty grassroots from the residents on up and not so much top-down although I think there was an historic plan that identified certain areas back in 1980 correct to be so what is our pathway for so say the plan identifies I'm just hypoth etically three distinct overlay districts in this area maybe it's wants to expand Fry Street maybe wants to add an historic district in the panhandle Eagan Congress area maybe there's other overlays what is our legal path to do that from a city initiated approach because it seems like you know to give context it seems like as I've observed past historic neighborhoods the city is generally put up I don't know if it's a legal standard or just one that we've used I think like a fifty to seventy five percent buy-in rate from all the property owners in order to get an overlay in an historic district plausible so what is our path post that and how long does that take sure if I can step back take one step back and talk about implementation strategy if you recall I mentioned public outreach so the opinion of the community of the of the residents of the business owners within these areas will be taken not just into consideration but will be factored into for let's say let's assume there is an overlay district that's being created it would be factored into that creation of that overlay district so the overlay district then in itself becomes a zoning district and it becomes part of the development the Denton Development Code as an example and again that is modification or amendment to the DDC so that path then follows the public hearing process and the to create that overlay district but it won't be after the fact because that buy-in or the relevant recommendations or implementation strategy for that overlay district will be received from the onset opposed to after the fact but in that instance we're primarily concerned with the property owners within that overlay district because we 've had zoning cases where people outside that area are really concerned and passionate and speak out we've saw one recently right but yet at the end of the day when we're imposing an overlay which is extra zoning restrictions do we legally only listen to the folks who are property owners in that when making that decision of whether or not to superimpose additional zoning regulations on them like we would in an historic district in other words people outside in a historic district wouldn't say we want that to be an historic district impose that on all those property owners without the consent of the property owners right so the majority obviously if we've before looking at it is an overlay district between a specific corridor then obviously the outreach would occur with the property owners not just the renters but of that area that contained area and we would discern the again from from grassroots level have them involved from the beginning and again we have the issue of is this rental property what is it how do we make sure that not just the property owner but the residents within that area also get a say associated with that my last question on this round I guess is what does this do for future development applications in this area so this is going to be a year any suggested overlay districts will then be arguably another year maybe less who knows sure knows what that process looks like right what is going to be the planning department's recommendation if and when and I say when there are applications for development projects in this area do we say no we're not going to recommend any of them because we don't know what we're doing yet does the council say well we got to wait another year before we determine where we're going what what's your approach my approach is very simple you cannot hold up an application just because we're looking at a study area and we're trying to move forward we will follow whatever is adopted in current standing as far as a development code is concerned as far as our comprehensive plan is concerned and what is approved on the books right now there's no harm in discussing that you know having a conversation that this is a study area but if there are no recommendations or no specific design or development criteria that are adopted then we have to follow what's existing so we won't vehemently say no absolutely not you cannot do this in fact it would be the opposite as long as they comply with the current development code where in order yeah I just know the last year we've seen some projects come up and there's been this this conversation has been hanging over our head and a lot of people have pointed to it saying well let's wait till we get a plan in place let's wait till we get a plan in place and I just worry but that was a year ago and I worry about this just lingering on too long to where we will it doesn't it doesn't slow down or stall or pause any current applications in process those will be viewed based on current code thank you I guess my I 'm gonna have to wait and see what the final report is because I struggle with the size of this area because you have very distinctly different groups I mean north of oak and Hickory is primarily more owner-occupied residential you know there's certainly historic districts and things when you get down into the F annins the Nefs you get over there to West Collins with one size is not going to fit this particular area correct and quite frankly people have said we needed this for protection for protection of this area well I mean we've had a couple of projects come up that didn't get through so I guess I have a little bit more confidence in in the council and in the policymaking ability of whoever's in office and the neighborhoods because when you put it when you put something like this you're now stamping this with this is how we want this to be for a long time it's different with a historic district everybody has to buy in you have to have a certain amount of people who say we're willing to do this it's a whole different ballgame you're not going to hear from probably two or three or five percent of the property owners in this area and you also have the University of North Texas which they're not subject to our codes and regulations anyway they typically will voluntarily comply so that's not to be disparaging on them but technically legally they don't have to so I'm still on the fence on this to see what the final product is because I think it's too it's too large and then when you also start talking about putting overlay districts on you're really beginning to control the market and that's that's the struggle I have we have protections in places we've seen as an example in the last couple of projects that this council decided that wasn't appropriate for that area and I just would hate to say well I'm going to make a decision that's going to say what I think is appropriate for that area for the next 15 or 20 years so I'll just have to see what what plays out on that and that might be what what the the devil's in the detail so to speak any other questions on this so we got to give direction I guess go ahead councilmember I mean Mayor Pro Tem. I would just suggest given the area that you're looking at and I know Dalton asked the question of the University and they have a master plan and goals in mind and then there are there are several really good examples around the country I know it's difficult of universities and cities working really well together on areas just like this with shared goals shared values I mean they want to see a clean corridor heading into their campus they have housing issues we have housing issues we have transportation issues they have it part of me wonders if we can't milk that as far as it can go because that's going to provide a unique voice in this even more so I think than what a consultant might bring to the table so hopefully we have the relationships in place I know the mayor has a good relationship with the University and to me there 's some I do there's some there's some great possibilities I'd like to see come about yes if I could just add to councilmember Rodin's comments you're exactly right and in fact we brought this up mayor and I had a meeting with university officials a couple weeks ago and I brought this up to them and there's definitely an interest in at least two areas that are adjacent to campus one of them is Fry Street area where they're looking at potentially didn't making some investments down the road and they'd like to see a transition and they have they actually offered to work with us to plan it together there's also some thought process going on that they might want to make a more walkable campus similar to the presentation that you've heard from DW you already and of course they're going to need our cooperation some of those areas that's one area they can't just roll over the city on they've got to have our participation if we're gonna potentially alter roadways and that sort of thing so I'm at least the conversation we had there they're not only willing to participate with possibly willing to contribute some dollars to some of these particular areas so we're definitely in sync with what you're saying yes regarding direction I hope that none of my questions were regarded as criticisms of the plan I think I'm okay regarding directions of moving ahead with with the staff proposal I just had those questions because it was because I was curious and because it seemed different from what I was expecting but I'm fine with moving in yes my Hawkins yeah I 'm comfortable with moving forward too but you know I shared the same concern when I opened up that backup I was a small area plan I don't know it's small meant in my mind sure but all of a sudden it it was six times the size that it was or something five times but when it definitely I don't think I was thinking about an evaluation on a street network things like that and that's what it actually does so I am curious what this what will come forth from this but I'm comfortable moving forward so forward go forth fabulous thank you so much you bet all right moving on to agenda item 3b receive report hold discussion give staff direction regarding the digital divide and impact to city of Denton residents good afternoon City Council mayor city manager I'm Alyssa craft I'm the chief technology officer today I want to talk about the digital divide so I want to talk about the definition of the digital divide some of the factors associated with it some of the reasons for the digital divide and some of the attempts we've done within the city to bridge the digital divide and some potential solutions so what is the digital divide this refers to the economic educational and social inequalities between those who have computers and online access and those who don't it's a term used to describe the discrepan cy between people who have access to resources to use new information and communication tools such as the internet and people who do not have access to those resources so what are some of the factors and I'll show you some of the information we were able to get from that nice D2 it's dependent on social economic status age gender educational achievement and geographic location so here's something interesting if you live in a high-income household you're much more likely to use the internet over 90% go online as opposed to 53% earning less than 30,000 a year so that's very significant Denton's median household income in 2015 was 49,000 in 2015 20.6 percent of Denton residents live in poverty so those are some statistics within that question on your first bullet point you talk about will whether they go online or not but does that is that synonymous whether they have the capacity to go online or like I mean you've got 90% of the people go online whereas 53% earning less than 30,000 per year is that because people earning less than 30,000 per year they're not online because they don't have the capacity they don't have the lines they don 't have the service the service yes sir thank you you got yes does that include mobile or is it just home computers so we have some additional slides that 'll kind of break it down for the dentin IC area as well too this is just generic across the board across the u.s. so here's across the u.s. we'll look at it more from globally what you see here if it's a purple light purple and dark purple is bad this means that these are the households that have the least amount of internet access so if you notice over in the west and northeast they have higher rates of high-speed use compared to Texas in the south while Texas isn't the worst they they're rated pretty bad so here's some u.s. home broadband users by household income so if we focus here between a 30,000 and 50,000 71% of those users have home broadband access that's one of the things you were talking about who has access at home this is one of the key things we focused on as part of this here you look at it by age so if you focus between 18 and 29 77% of those at home have access to internet based on age here more locally to Texas where the 46 most connected state the average speed is 45.6 percent 56.3 percent of Texas has access to wired broadband 25 megabytes or faster so if you look here on a map the higher the density you'll see the dark colors that means typically in the north northern part we're kind of we're located at we have the best available internet access 100% of Texas has access to mobile broadband services and out of that in Denton there's a 99.5 broadband coverage meaning it's available ready to be consumed yes so the previous points in mobile broadband and then the second one says broadband is that is that wired or what is that that's considered a high-speed internet so it's fiber capable you mean just geographically where it's located in the city yes is that based on like a map or something like that where we see the lines going across her yes so if you go to broadband now dot-com Texas the source is located right there I should show you geographically kind of how we rate so out of the hundred cities we were about the 20th city that has coverage there too how does that the statistics deal with people who get their internet access through a satellite dish because there's some people in the city that do that that's almost the only way that people in more rural areas like North of town yes if you go to that website issued define it by type so you'll see wireless wired and that type of kind of thing so here's from the Denton independent school district survey I want to thank Dwight Goodwin he's the director of instructional technology he helped me kind of pulled some of these data sets this is a data set based on a survey for 34 schools within the Denton ISD 93% of your students have internet access of home of whom 94% have wireless internet access and 6% have wired internet access again this is based on 34 I want to show you kind of little more details this shows the lowest results out of the 34 schools that are shown above so you can see Borman is at 81% Guinnings is at 84% Lee's at 86 Newton razor 88% of students have access to internet at home just really a comment I discovered recently that a lot of high school students are writing their papers and doing their homework on their phones and I guess this is probably why because they do not have okay yes and that's a problem that that nice the ulcer agrees with think there goes to get a hundred percent coverage if possible in those schools they approach and I followed up with Dwight and dr. Wilson on this survey and it is interesting it was sent out to parents via email so if you think about who's self-selected in terms of the parents responding to this they would have had a internet access either at home or at work so I think they understand this could be skewed up a little bit based on the way they did the survey so just some qualifiers that's why I highlight at the bottom schools too because when you look at 90 something percent oh that's great but when you look at 80s even good given the demographic nationally of what it says with that so that's why I think we're a bit self selecting for people with internet access so here 's a 97% of your parents have internet access at home of whom 99% have wireless internet access and 1% have wired internet access so a little breakdown of what Dwight had given here the lowest results of a 34 schools shown above you can see it's a little different than what the students interpret 84% the lowest was Rivera Borman showed up again at 87% Evers is at 89% and everything else was above 90% Melissa could you go back to the last slide I want to make sure that I'm interpreting that slide correctly so we've got this general number 97% of parents have internet access at home yes of that 97% that's just out of 100 97 of them 99% have wireless internet access and only 1% have wired internet so that I guess that goes to what you were saying about nobody's I mean that's really no wired internet access okay all right I just want to make sure I understand yes again I if you the questions aren't that specific so if I'm a kid and I hear wireless I might think Wi-Fi I mean I'm not plugging my computer in so I think there are some lack of specificity because that's that would be odd that only one yeah all right yeah I agree with that appreciate that clarification yeah just to go along with that I know it's not your data I think it's a way too high I just agree and I've been out of the schools for a little bit but it can't have changed that much and and I think that there may be some confusion over the terminology because some people were talking about Wi-Fi in their homes some people were talking about an old plug-in and some people were talking about just your cell phone yeah I don't think anyone really plugs in their Wi-Fi they're probably using a hotspot or something wireless router that can you know some of us still have dial-up so what are some of the barriers to adopting broadband monthly cost is just too expensive it's pretty expensive the technology cost for devices that's another barrier that we've seen in a technology literacy how to use it and how to consume it and use it so this is from the Pew Research Center kind of gives you a little more details it's part of the non broadband users you can see smartphone does everything online that you needed to do so they prefer to use that over other types of technology devices so where are some of the temps to bridge the digital divide the Federal Communications Commission their lifeline program was used for cell phones they expanded that also into high-speed internet this program is designed to help make communication services more affordable for low-income consumers both chart and frontier participants in this program the charter offers a discount ed rate at 1499 a month for a 30 to 4 megabyte speed package which is pretty fast frontier offers a federal lifeline discount of nine dollars and 25 cents with an additional seven dollars and 20 cents Texas State Lifeline Credit Councilmember Riggs do we know what their low income is so I think as far as to meet the qualifications if you qualify for snap you would qualify for this so that would be kind of the threshold that I can easily explain and snap is what for food services food assistance for low income free lunch es okay here's some other times the Denton libraries they all provide free Wi- Fi and internet downtown Denton has free Wi-Fi a lot of the parks and rec facilities also have free Wi-Fi enabled Denton ISD they provide Verizon jet packs for schools to purchase so if they want it to loan that out for students the abilities there for them to do that Verizon jet packs kind of like wireless hotspot that you can take and loan out to students Denton libraries provide over 16 programs related to technology some of those programs include Microsoft office training computers with special software laptops and iPads at each location also online training tutorials if you need that so some of the possible solutions we can increase funding from state resources national resources and also seeing investments from a private sector another city I had spoken with they were received donations from banks to start up a pilot program that could be something we can potentially do as well too and seek funding from nonprofit and community-based organizations we could also create a resource guide that highlights area of free Wi-Fi so people know where it's at we could consider integrating into development incentive policies as we're having new businesses starting to come in maybe we can enforce them to incorporate fibers part of it as part of their development processes we could continue to work with service providers on right-of-way agreements in an effort to enhance broadband access and also continue to create community awareness of the issues with educational technology partnering up with Denton IC and also the libraries as part of that that's all I have any questions guys remember Gary about this when we talk about density in our city because it affects our ability of people to have access to very fast internet which is increasingly becoming required. [inaudible] Other than the school surveys do we know if there are neighborhoods in the city here in Denton that still don't have access to fiber optics? Where the providers have just said it's a low-income neighborhood I'm not going there. No in South Denton both Charter Frontier expanded their services here about the last 18 months to expand some of their services in making it fiber ready and fiber capable. So previously yes I would agree that was a limitation in certain neighborhoods and I think as part of their expansion package when Frontier got acquired I think they started to expand some of those services. So as far as you know now all of our neighborhoods have accessibility. I think it's capable but it goes back to affordability can they afford it. I'd love to see a map I know I'm not around here much longer, but I mean other neighborhoods have done other cities have done that where they've done an asset mapping to just clarify that. Down in Pasadena Texas I was visiting a school there and they actually saw a number there that's a pretty poor part of the Houston area. A number of their neighborhoods were not getting access so they took advantage of school property worked with a private provider to put up these really high speed small cell technologies that was and then they issued out to the kids a router that went to the school. And so it's a great kind of public private partnership so I just like to see that and I think what would go along with that sort of mapping is even beyond the digital divide. I'd like to see the city think about what this means for us in an economic development terms. We're constantly beholden to what is the vision of AT&T Verizon Frontier or what not in terms of what they think is the next step. But you know if we ever wanted to land a major data center in town out in industrial suits do we have the fiber out there? I don't know. But it becomes a good economic development tool to say what kind of economy are we developing into and do we have that sort of utility like we would think about electricity and other sorts of utility access to meet the 21st century economy and the types of businesses coming in. So along those lines something I would suggest is I think we probably have a number of interesting assets. If you think about the two universities, the county, the city, you probably have a significant amount of dark fiber running under here and I don't know if anyone's ever mapped that. A lot of cities have tied into that in order to kind of channel some solutions in these areas and dark fiber would be just an excessive amount of unused fiber that's running through an area. A lot of times they used to put that along the railroads which we have in our city so I don't know what we have along there. So thinking along those lines, I mean we had a little bit of step looking at downtown Denton, although we never really went for the gusto with that. We kind of worked with some folks. We have a good example of it down in the Stoke area where we got chartered to the table as a city. Yes, we were able to get Denton Arts connectivity. They put massive amounts of fiber in that area. And that's able to, that attracted industry and it's still doing that. So that's one angle I would encourage us to think because I think the cities that figure that out are going to be the cities of the future. That's why everyone's going after Google fiber and stuff like that. They know that. The other thing I put an exclamation point on is this notion of putting it in as a planning tool. I know as we've had this discussion, especially it relates to some of these low income housing development projects that are seeking our endorsement and what can we do to kind of tie in what we want associated with that. To me, mandating that every kid living there has access to the Internet as part of that project would be a smart thing for us to do. So that there's never a project that comes into town, whether low income neighborhood or what not, that doesn't have that. That can be part of our development review process, for instance, in terms of just a did. So anyways, those are some thoughts. I appreciate this. But just as those of you guys carry on the torch and thinking through those things, I offer those suggestions. Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. Any other questions, comments on this? Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you, Melissa. You bet. Next agenda item is agenda item 3C. Receive report, hold discussion, give staff direction regarding maintenance and improvements to the I.F.F. and Oakwood cemeteries. We've all been dying for this one. I'm sorry. Yes. No, no, I just figured I'd do it before Dalton did it. Sorry. Did you say something? Let me get scrolled back to the beginning here. There we go. All right. All right. To Mayor, members of council, we're back to talk about cem eteries one more time. I was here on April 4th and talked about the contract, the proposed contract to do some mapping and some work at the c emeteries. And you all had a number of questions. So we want to try to address those for you today. The first question that came up was does the city actually own the cemeteries and what commitments have been made to maintain them? So this is an article from Denton Record Chronicle from 19 15. And talk about everything old is new again. This was a big deal. Who owned Oakwood Cemetery at that point in time? Because it seems that the mayor had appropriated $100 from city funds to maintain the cemeteries. And there was a question as to who owned the cemeteries. So it seems that Mr. Jago made a search of the deed records of the city county of Denton County and found the record of a deed selling 3.81 acres of the present city cemetery to the city of Denton for cash consideration of $385. So in this period of time, the city cemetery would have been referring to Oakwood Cemetery. So while we have not gone back and actually don't have that deed in hand, I think this is a pretty good indication of the fact that the city is indeed responsible for Oakwood. We move on to- Can I stop you just a sec? Go back to that. Yes sir. I'll try. I thought it was very apropos that- I'm sorry. Wait. We'll do this. Here we go. I'm sorry. My eyes strayed to the article that was down on one side of it. 1700 visitors- I tried to blank that out so you couldn't see that, Mayor. The restroom has pipes on it anyway. I just- Moving along. We move up to 1933. It was proof even then the restrooms were important. Move up to 1933. This was actually- these are city council minutes. This was a vote of the good citizens of Denton in that year . And the vote was whether the city should take over and maintain the IWF Cemetery, the Oddfellow Cemetery, and then be levied and assessed and collected a tax not to exceed two cents or every $100 of valuation of taxable property. You can see it passed 545 to 96. So that becomes the documentation that the city is responsible for IWF and what was spoken to here is the maintenance of both of those cemeteries. So hopefully we've resolved that issue or those two issues. Last questions about our rates for sale of a plot at our cemetery. I guess these folks would be considered our local competition. So there's the city of Denton. There's Rose Lawn, which is a private cemetery. City of Gainesville and City of Grand Prairie. Yes, we are on the low end of the scale. Staff did come to the previous council in 2009, asked about raising rates. And that council at that time said, no, we were not to raise the rates at Oakwood. Yes, we could raise the rates at IWF from 350 to 600. If this council would like us to explore raising these rates as we move into the next budget process, certainly we 'd be glad to explore that with you. On that last line, what is the permit? Permit to bury, to open a grave and then permit to set a headstone. Okay, thank you. Question about the maintenance cost of the cemeteries in fiscal 14-15. We spent a combined $132,046 maintaining our cemeteries that includes contract mowing, contract tree trimming, city labor, city equipment, any supplies that get used out of the cemeteries. In 15-16, that number increased to 145-806. Councilmember Briggs had a question. That was my question, what that included. Okay. So it's mowing and tree trimming. Yeah, everything. Yes, Councilmember. How does that compare with two cents per hundred dollar valuation? Let's just say we left some money on the table. It's more than 10 times less. Yes, sir. The question also came up about some CIP funding that had taken place and I misspoke when I was in front of you last time. I said that was part of the 2000 CIP. It was actually part of the 2005 CIP. Those funds were approved to replace cemetery fences. The bonds were sold in 2007, $180,000 worth. Since then, we've engaged Teaknell Perkins, paid them $46, 286 to do the design work on fences for both cemeteries. And remaining funds of $133,000. Yes, Councilmember. I guess it's going back to the last slide. So if I'm understanding it correctly, there was authorization to levy a two cent per hundred dollar valuation tax. Did that levy ever go into effect? We don't know. We don't know if even if it did, if it was ever rescinded, we haven't gone through 100 years of taxation to look that one up. Why not? We had a couple other requests we had to take care of. Joking. On this slide, has there been any interest made on those remaining funds or does that, do the remaining funds include interest that has been earned? I can't answer that question now. I would venture to say that yeah, there's been some interest. I know that the interest rates have been quite low lately. So I doubt that there's much of an increase in that. My question is really about the design work. I guess if it's for both, it's about $25,000 each for just the design of the fence. Is it a requirement to get a design? Usually, you know, when you get a fence, you hire somebody, they come out and they put a fence up. So I'm just confused about the amount of money. If you will recall, the $180,000 was really originally intended to replace chain link fence with chain link fence. And then we started discussions with the Historic Landmark Commission. And we were informed that we would need certificates of appropriateness for the cemeteries. As it turns out, we actually were only required to have one for Oakwood Cemetery. But we went through several design processes before we got to the point where there was a fence design that was acceptable to the Historic Landmark Commission. It was quite a process, hence the cost. Thank you. This is the design that we eventually received a certificate of appropriateness for. Those are masonry columns where they would actually be c inder block on the inside wrapped in a native type stone. And then you can see the steel type fence. We even went as far as the gate there that you can see, this one happens to be a rendering of IWF. And even explored the possibility of a rolling gate there so that the cemeteries could be closed up at night and made more secure. Yes. How long does a certificate of appropriateness last? I understand it does not expire. Okay. So this is the current accepted design. As far as cost goes, what you're looking at here is Oakwood Cemetery. The street in the middle is Prairie Street. The blue line would represent the new fence. So the horizontal line is Prairie Street. The vertical line is Bradshaw. I did get that right. What our proposal would be, this section of the cemetery has never been fenced. So we would propose to use the CIP funds that are available and go ahead and fence this portion of the cemetery with the stone columns and the steel type fence, ornamental steel. Staff has worked with actually with the Texas Correctional Industries and got them to bid the fabrication of the steel type fence. This is a state set aside program. It does not require bidding. These are actually inmates that come down, come up from one of the prisons with supervision, obviously, and come up and fabricate and build this fence here. It's a very, very attractive bid for us, a very good bid on this work. And they have produced some very, very high quality work that we've seen in some other pieces that we bought from them, purchased from them. So that was an interesting approach that staff took to resolving this and finding a contractor. You can see the cost for this much would be, combined would be $86,290. That includes the masonry columns, the steel fence, and a m ow strip, a one foot wide mow strip, concrete mow strip underneath the fence so that the mowers stay away from the fence and stay off the fence. Yes, Council Member Walshney. And to confirm that $86,000 would come out of the $133 that we just saw. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. That's CIP money that's identified exclusively for fencing at the cemeteries. We can't, we're not supposed to move that money anyplace else without approval of the CIP committee. So that's what it was sold for. That's what we're proposing. Thank you. Just for reference, this is the north side of, I'm sorry, of Oakwood Cemetery. So Bradshaw is the horizontal line at the bottom. I'm sorry, Prairie is the horizontal line at the bottom. Bradshaw again. And then Sycamore is the line at the top. As funding became available to continue the ornamental fence, we would do this perimeter of the fence. We would replace the chain link with the more ornamental fence. We do not have funding to do this project at this time. There was also a question about IWF, excuse me, and how we might go about fencing that. From experience, we think it would be wise to do the front, which would be Carroll Street. Again, the vertical line is Carroll Street. The horizontal line at the bottom is Eagle. That we would do those two stretches with the ornamental fence, with the stone. The cost to do that much work would be about $220,000. We are not funded to do that work right now. But we would propose that the other pieces of the fence that are not quite as visible, that those would be replaced with like, with chain link fence. We have a tremendous amount of difficulty keeping these fences that you see here maintained. The vertical fence on the west side of the cemetery, the vertical line that you see, there's no curb on the street there. That's IWF Street. There's no curb there. And these fences take a beating, a vehicular beating. So if we were going to upgrade the fence, we would suggest that we would upgrade this with chain link fence instead of going with the more expensive steel fence. So it is replacing an old chain link fence. Yes, sir. What restrictions would we have on moving that $133,000 to this cemetery instead of the other one? We would have none. So we could move the $133,000 to this one? We could. Because it's a gateway to our city. And so I just want to put that on the table in terms of priority projects. This cemetery, my opinion, needs to have priority first because it is a gateway in and out of our city. May I put in? As representative for the next couple weeks of Southeast Denton, you know, those folks have been asking for a fence in that area and they got caught up in the dispute with wasn't their making, which was the Historic Landmark Commission came in and started saying this needs to be this very expensive fence and they were looking for just get us a fence where there is none. So I'd be an advocate of making sure they got some fencing, which they've been promised for a long period of time. Whether it's the fancy fence, the non-fancy fence, it sounds like we're stuck with the historic decision made by the Historic Landmark Commission. I wish we could go back and rethink that to get a better priced product for this, but I'd hate to leave an unfenced section in the middle of the neighborhood the way it is now . The cost to replace the chain link with chain link would be in the neighborhood of $101,000 at IWF cemetery. Staff recommendation after having worked through this exercise would be, as we talked about, to use the CIP funds . Our recommendation would still stand to use those funds to replace the fence first at Oakwood Cemetery since there's been a call for that from the community over there. That we would use the CIP funds for that. We'd still like to move forward with the contract that we brought before you a couple of weeks ago to do the GPS and the GIS mapping at both of the cemeteries and evaluate the headstones. Although after discussion that we had last time I was here that staff would adopt the practice that as far as repairing headstones in the future, we would go only after those headstones that pose a public safety hazard, we certainly would not go after replacing every headstone that had basically run its life cycle and weathered out, if you will. You remind me how much the GPS GIS mapping. The contract. The proposal contract was? With Texas Cemetery restoration, the total contract is $152 ,596. So when you, if we take away from what we had in the CIP with the $133,000 and then what's left is about $47,000. So where would the rest of that money come from? I can't take away the CIP money from that total. That CIP money was sold and the voters voted on that money being used for fences. So that $47,000 left over would just stay there until we were ready to match for more. We would either match or we could do a ornamental gate, as you saw on the slide that I showed of IWF. We could do a gate like that at Oakwood, spend those dollars there, or we could just let that money sit there until we could come up with the remaining funding to go after putting a fence up at IWF. Councilmember Wasing and Councilmember Begay. Could you go back to the slide that shows how this city of Denton charges per plot compared to other cemeteries? I think this is a really important slide and it's something that we talked about last time. And I've had to purchase cemetery plots in other parts of the country. And when I heard what we were charging, I was shocked because it was so low. And so moving forward, I would ask staff to come back with a recommendation on what we should be charging to be more in line, and not to be greedy, but to be more in line with what other cities are charging because it's costing the city, our city, our taxpayers. It's costing our taxpayers to maintain the cemeteries. So it's just when I bought plots for my family, I didn't argue. I didn't say, well, can't you cut me a deal? I was handed a spreadsheet and said, this is what it costs, take it or leave it. End of story. It's how cemeteries operate. So I would strongly recommend that we take a look at raising the prices per plot to help generate just income that helps pay for the cemeteries. We would love to say the city and the taxpayers could throw a lot of money at the cemeteries. They have to help pay their way. So that would be a recommendation to have staff come forward, and I would assume it would come under the budget discussions on, because it makes an easier package to bring back to council to say, here's what we want to spend, but here's some extra income that's going to be generated on a continuing basis because we're going to charge more per plot to be more in line with just fair market value out there. And I strongly recommend the future council take a look at this. Thank you. Councilmember, let's see, was it Begarian and then Briggs? Okay. I would second that, I'd really like to see a new fee schedule with a new budget cycle. So starting on October 1st I think would be a good time. I have a question, I have a couple comments and questions. Question, we had somebody, Mike Cochran emailed us about the roads that are going through. And so my question to you is, are you aware of the unused roads? Could those be used for improvements or funding improvements? We'll look at that and see if we can expand the number of plots that will be available, yes. Okay, so probably looking at that in conjunction with pricing to have a potential, you know, total potential revenue would be helpful. Yes, ma'am. And then I had a question about the two fence options. So for Oakwood, we have $82,000 and the design has already been completed, correct? Correct. So would it be possible to transfer the design from Oakwood to improvements to IOF? Those funds, the design fees cover both cemeteries. Okay, it didn't include both. They're complete, yes ma'am. All right. And then with respect to the chain link fence, I mean, my hesitation in spending $100,000 on the chain link fence is if we're going to make these improvements, maybe we should just put that money towards the improvements that we want as opposed to the chain link fence. That's my hesitation. So I'm okay with the Oakwood repair. I think that would be a real enhancement to that area. But I'm on the fence about IOF, sorry for the pun, because I'd like to see something better than chain link, frankly. And I think we have to look at this whole thing hol istically to get there. Okay. Cast member Briggs. So on the fee part of it, I was actually really happy to see that it was affordable. I mean, we learned that the significant part of our city is in poverty and that's only going to increase most likely. So I would just ask that it not go as far up as $1780 or $3 ,000 because we need something to remain affordable in our city for families, because that's the last thing you want them to stress out when someone, they lose a loved one is that they can't afford to bury them. So just please keep that in mind. And I would also agree with going forward with the Oakwood and holding off on the chain link fence for now as well. Council member Gregory. Sure. Council member Hawkins. When you bring information back on cost comparisons, probably need a little bit more information, because I know that in addition to whatever the full cost is at Roselon, they also require a concrete vault that may be included in that price and it may be an additional fee. And that may be for the different cities. And I'm curious as to what our requirements are for a concrete vault. My understanding is those are used to keep from having c aving in as time goes on. Would you go to the slide with recommendations, please? I just remind us all that the whole reason that this conversation originally came up is because I had gone out there to do some checking after we had had a conversation regarding the IAOF cemetery and the complaints from some citizens that there were restrictions on who could be buried there. In that we discovered that there are no restrictions on who could be buried there. We affirmed that, Mr. Attorney, by what? An ordinance or a resolution? The Council adopted a resolution last year in 2016-035. Where we said that we acknowledged that the deed had a restriction, but that it was no longer enforceable based on federal law? U.S. constitutional and Texas constitutional law is applied by the U.S. Supreme Court and the Texas Supreme Court. And in that resolution we said that no restrictions had been happening, that anybody could buy a plot and be buried there, and we would continue to do that. And we found the notion of those restrictions to be - what was the wording? Repugnant? Repugnant, contrary, unconscionable, unenforceable, and illegal. Right. Okay. Set that aside now. But the whole reason that we had this discussion was I had been out there kind of looking around afterwards, and I was appalled by the damage and the deterioration that I saw to the headstones, many that were historic in nature. And I think it's - I think the fence is fine. I think that's a good idea. I think we owe it to the voters who said that we wanted the fence. So we need to get that done, and I think putting it at Oak wood is an appropriate place to start. But it's just a starting spot. We need to go ahead and do the fence at the IAOF and figure out funding to do that. But we cannot ignore the damage and the deterioration that 's happening out there to the headstones that are about to fall. I don't think that we should limit our addressing those problems to just those that pose a public safety hazard, because there are a lot of those that need to be repaired. I'm not talking about replacing them. I'm talking about repairing historic headstones to leave them in their historic state. You know, burial grounds have been considered and continue to be considered sacred spaces, not only in the United States or in the Western world, but all over the world. And the city took on the responsibility of being custodian for these sacred spaces. And putting a fence around deteriorating mausoleums and crypts and headstones is not enough. It's just not enough. We need to be more comprehensive in our approach to addressing the needs. And so I think that the fence is a good start, but it's not sufficient and that we need to continue putting money in the budget. Certainly, we don't need two cents per hundred dollars to do that. But we're not holding up the responsibility that was made, the commitment that was made years ago. And, you know, it's one thing to not be aware of a commitment or to be aware of the deterioration, but once you know it, then there's an ethical responsibility that comes to do your duty to those folks who are buried there who can't vote, I understand. Though I understand that there was one cemetery that carried an election in Texas and Duval County one time. But we're not going to be getting any votes out of this. We 're just doing the right thing. Okay. Are we doing direction now? No, no, I'm just saying let's we could do that. I'm going to give everybody one more round and then we're going to we're going to go for recommendations. Yes. You know, on exploring rates for the spaces, we definitely need to get caught up with the times. But one thing that I've learned over the last two years being sitting by Keely here is that she's got the biggest heart and she's right. So while you are doing that, I would like a certain amount of space to set aside for some sort of program where it's a discounted rate or something like that. I think we could have both sides of that one. So and then to on the recommendation there for which one I just lost for Oakwood move forward. I don't want to replace a chain link with a chain link at double IOF. So I know we have to just come up with some money, but you know, it is a gateway. We need to do that one properly. So I don't want to just replace it with the chain links. Okay. That's my direction. I'm done. So to be back on point in terms of what is staff's ask right now. So move forward with the proposal to map the cemeteries as well as evaluate all the headstones. And so it's premature right now to say, let's go fix all the headstones because we don't know what that's going to cost. That's what this study is going to because quite frankly, I think the cost is going to be it's going to be a cost. And at that point, it may be a decision to stagger that cost over several years. So moving forward, I like, you know, because it does include the evaluation. Our funding out of the budget was one hundred and fifty thousand. I want to clarify that. And the other the reason staff added this portion about repairing at this time, only those headstones that pose a public safety hazard is that they are just that a public safety hazard, which staff then goes in to make sure no one walking through the cemetery gets hurt. And the city gets sued because something falls and breaks a foot. So at this point in time, you're spot on with these recommendations because that's what the study is going to give us. Here's the evaluation and also here's what it's going to cost. But in the interim to go back in and take care of any public safety hazards so no one gets hurt walking through the cemetery. And so I support everything that's on these two bullets. Thank you. Now I'm going to speak. Oh, did you have your hand up? I just had a comment or kind of question. Go ahead. So I'm looking here and the Texas Historical Commission has a program for cemetery preservation. And I'm wondering if anyone it may be someone else's duty to look into that. But I'm wondering if anyone has reached out to that program. We have explored grant opportunities and we've not had success thus far. We will continue to do that. Thank you. OK. It seemed like the discussion last time was this hundred fifty thousand. How did we want to spend it? That's just this piece of it. That was we had the choices of the evaluation, the GPS, GIS mapping or spending that money to repairing headstones. You gave us a breakdown of what that would entail as far as if you did a mausoleum is going to be two or three of them. If you do other headstones like physical safety or personal safety and then some other ones that are leaning and not necessarily replacing that would cover a lot more of them. I'm going to really struggle. I cannot support paying one hundred fifty thousand dollars for a report. I mean, I think we've got people on staff that can go out and look at a headstone and determine is this something that needs to be fixed? They're going to have to do it anyway. If one's leaning, do you take a protractor out there to see what fits over so many degrees? So I have full confidence that you guys can evaluate the headstones. Secondly, if we're going to do this, let's just do it. I mean, if a hundred years ago they approved two cents out of every hundred dollars and we've not probably collected a dime of it over this and who knows what that would come to. So this is my recommendation. This is what I would propose. We take the hundred fifty thousand dollars. If we can get an evaluation of all the headstones with I don't know which one of those is the largest financial component of that report. So that would be interesting to know to get an evaluation. If it's not most of that money, I presume the GPS mapping is probably going to be the most costly. If we can get an evaluation and it doesn't eat up very much of that hundred fifty thousand where you can have a hundred fifty thousand left to repair headstones, I would say fix the FFN for eighty two thousand. Take the what's the remainder? Forty something thousand out of the CIP. What's the remainder after the oakwood? That's what I mean. Oakwood. Yes. Oakwood. That's right. Forty seven four thirty four. Forty seven four thirty four. And I would say I mean guys, we're spending a hundred thousand dollars on awnings at downtown and downtown. We've we've budgeted a hundred thousand dollars a year. We've got forty seven thousand. If you put up a wrought iron fence from Carol down Eagle, that was what? Two hundred thousand. Yeah. So used to track basically fifty thousand from that. It leaves you a hundred and fifty thousand dollars that you 're short outside of the chain link fence. Yes, sir. Take it out of the fund balance. I mean, it's a hundred and fifty thousand dollars. We've got twenty five or twenty eight million dollars in there. I mean, if it's the gateway to the city, we're going to we 're going to argue about a hundred and fifty thousand dollars to put up change, to put a wrought iron fence at one of the probably busiest intersections to our city. Just take it out of the fund balance. We've done that for what I would consider lesser kind of improvements to our city. So and then we can come back after we get the evaluation of what it's going to cost. We've already been repairing some of them. Then we can take a very methodical, budgetary approach to fix in this issue, because I know Councilman Gregory, you 're you're you brought this forward and your whole intent was let's repair the headstones. And that's what the hundred and fifty thousand dollars was originally intended for. So I'm saying let's go with the original intent. Let's use up the CIP funding. Let's add a little bit more and just get way down the road on this problem. I mean, this is it's just interesting. Yes, you're saying for them to do the study or not do the study, not to do the study, but if the evaluation of the headstones, in other words, part of it's a two prong study. It's the mapping and the GIS and the other was evaluating the condition of the headstones and what that would cost to fix them. If the evaluation of the headstones instead of them having to go out and do it, if that's a small like it is ten thousand dollars. Do you know how much it is? Yeah, I just looked it up. The GIS GPS mapping is seventy nine eight seventy two. So it's half of it. And the assessment of the stones was fifty seven thousand sixty dollars. Yeah. Does that change your adds to one thirty six nine thirty two. Where's the rest of the hundred fifty two thousand said that the rest of those funds would be used to start the repair on the stones. Oh, see, I go ahead. I really just want to use the funds to repair the stones like I, I just want that money to go to the repairs. And I feel like you guys have a pretty good idea of what needs immediate attention. And if we can just start putting money, if we have to do a budget amendment or something for a certain amount, that's fine, too. I just I don't like the idea of doing study after study when there are things that need immediate attention. So let's take this one at a time. We're working with the contract for the GIS evaluation or putting that money towards the repair of the stones immediately. I vote for the for the latter repair of the stones immediately. That's my direction. Is there anybody who has different direction in that regard ? Yes. Well, I was on the fence last time about it. I'm fine with that. I think the hesitation was that a bunch of money was going to be blown on one. And then where were we? Well, that well, there was some I don't think that was what the council direction was. It was their staff's going to decide how far that because, yes, some of those mausoleums were hundred thousand dollars . Right. So what are you what are you talking about? Just the head stones? Well, they could even bring back which ones they want to to repair. I mean, sure, I leave that at that. No, I'm I feel better about that. I just didn't want all the money to go. No, I don't think. Yeah, I don't think that's fine with that. So let me let me get through just the first round of direction. Anybody have a problem with that part of the direction? Which is to take the hundred and fifty two or one hundred and fifty thousand that was budgeted or that was talked about. To go towards repairing of the headstones instead of. Instead of. No, Brian's not trouble. He just he just signs his name to the checks. That's something I was just coaching. Yes. So from this particular component of this discussion, it seems like there's council direction on moving forward with repairing this headstones with one hundred fifty thousand dollars. It's been budgeted. Okay. And along with that, if the staff needs some type of consulting on how to repair some of those headstones, I think that money would be appropriate to be used to get that help. And and and along with that is there's no there's no expectation that one hundred and fifty thousand is going to do all the repairs that are necessary. This is just the first install. That's correct. Okay. So let's go to the next component. Oakwood cemetery, the eighty two thousand for the wrought iron. I don't see any objections to that. Well, you talked about I double F. So. I know that council has a priority as well. So as long as do one with the priority, knowing that our second cemeteries, the gateway to our city. We need to really look at that. Okay. Well, and that's what my whole recommendation will be on the third point. So eighty two thousand to the to the Oakwood cemetery to get that on those two boundaries, those two street sides wr ought iron. So we've got forty something forty seven thousand left. The wrought iron fence on I double F down Eagle and Carol was two hundred and one. We can use that forty seven because it was for fencing. Correct. I double F that remaining forty seven, so we're left with about one hundred sixty hundred fifty five thousand dollars . And I think we can find a way to find that money to do that . And so that's what I would propose that we we just do a whatever it needs to be done. Yes, because that takes care of that gateway issue. And so for staff and staff direction, I know that one of your concerns is to repair first the headstones that present a public safety issue. Yes, ma'am. So that would still remain the first priority. Yes, ma'am. So I think that needs to be real clear. And then you come back and say, well, we need some more money because we have a lot more headstones. But I think the public safety issue is extremely important. And thank you. Thank you. Yes. If we're if this council is deciding that is this council voting on this next week? If we get a if we need to get the ordinance to us. Well, that's what I'm OK. I'm just because I'd like to vote on if that's our question . Yes, what I the instruction that I've just received from council is that we will not move forward with a contract. So we will not come back to you for approval on a contract. I think what he's talking about is the monetary aspect. In other words, the council's given direction about maybe pulling some money out of the fund balance. This council has. But I'm sure this happens every time there's a transition. But just funny. Brian, you had a comment. We can certainly bring back the budget amendment next week to have the council consider that budget amendment in terms of a contract actually a bill defense. I think that would be a subsequent council. That's fine. We can certainly do the budget amendment next week if that's your direction. And you know, you could use this as a because there's a lot of families that are buried in both of those cemeteries. And so if you had some kind of way that if people needed to buy, you know, you got people that buy bricks all the time in streets or in sidewalks or things such as that. So it's just a creative idea. If people wanted to contribute and get some kind of, you know, additional memorialization of their of their, you know, past loved ones, then that would be something that there has been some interest and we expressed us. Yeah. Mayor Pro Tem. Yes. Just to clarify that certificate of appropriateness, was that for one just one cemetery? Yes, sir. It was only for only for Oakwood. So what happens in the event because realize all we're doing is we're solving a problem of no fencing by putting the eighty thousand dollars into that. There still is chain link facts around the rest of it. In the event that and I was just kind of Google mapping it kind of looking at a street view of some parts are better than others in terms of the condition of the fence. In the event the fence goes in disrepair. Does the landmark commission allow for a replacement of in kind fencing? In other words, if you had to replace a chain link fence because it fell down, would that now be subject to the certificate of appropriateness where it has to be replaced by the new fancy fencing? I defer this one to Roman who's here in the. And I only set it up because I think what future counselors going to have to look at is you now have kind of a the look is kind of split. You're going to have this real nice thing next to this. Talking about over at Oakwood. Oh, no. Yeah, you have this nice before you answer that question. What's the price on awkward to finish out the two hundred twenty? It's about the same as I. Two one two one. OK, well, I don't really have an issue. Let's just do it all at once. Let's just knock it out. I mean, let's just wait. That means we'd be pulling about three hundred and fifty out of the fund balance. We haven't paid hardly anything into this for you know, and then it fit and Oakwood has not had a fence for a long time . It's an historic designation. It's in a I think an area of our city that would be very appreciative of that kind of development to that cemetery. So I mean, it's we're arguing over over pennies here, folks . I'm going to that's going to come back to haunt me. I'm sure. But I'm just saying three hundred fifty thousand dollars over a hundred year period where we've done nothing. Absolutely nothing is is I think very reasonable. So that that would be some clarification then at the I double off cemetery. We would do the the upgraded fence, if you will, on Carol and Eagle. Right. On the rest of that cemetery would be chain link. Is it chain link now? It is chain link now. I think right now the main gateway to the city are those two streets. Yes, sir. I double. Oakwood is a historic cemetery. So I think it and we had a design for it. So that's why I feel comfortable saying go all in on that one on this and we do half and we can come back and do the others in another budget cycle. So I don't even know if the question needs to be answered. Yeah. Well, the answer is that you don't need that. HLC, your historic preservation officer can approve it if it's just maintenance or repair. Yes. Oh, yes. Can we going back to kind of getting participation in this is the Historic Commission involved in this in terms like the Denton County Historic Commission in terms of could they, you know, put out information about potentially purchases like sponsorship or what have you. Like we talked about, like, can we include Denton County in that discussion? I'm not aware of those conversations. I think they may have been going on with the county before that there's been some involved, but I'm not aware of fundraising efforts, which is can can of course happen and they can be brought in. I just think Peggy would like to know and participate in something like this in whatever capacity. That's just my outsider perspective. And one other thing is not for you, Roman. I'm sorry. The the contractor for the Oakwood, the Texas Correctional. Yes, sir. So if you if we're doing all of that work at the same time, my hunch is you might get a little bit better cost on the side and maybe on the Oakwood side for the additional. So if you do, it'd be nice to come back and of course, you have to share it with us with the budget amendment. Any other questions or comments? Staff have direction? I would ask you to repeat it, but I think you've got it. I got it. Okay. All right. Fantastic. Okay. Let's take about a five minute break and then we'll come back for our last open. All right, we're back in our meeting with the city council on Tuesday, May the second, 2017. It is three fifty p.m. Moving on to our last open session work session item, which is receive report, hold discussion, give staff direction regarding a request regarding requests for resolutions of no objection for two four percent tax credit housing developments in partnership with the Denton Housing Authority. Good afternoon, Mayor, council members. I'm here this afternoon to visit with you about the standard and the Hudson at Med Park station. They are two four percent tax credit developments. It's one on same acreage of land. They have gone through the development review process, have gotten the rezoning, have gotten their S.U.P. and are now up against the clock with some HUD funding that they have acquired in trying to get this project off the ground. But they will need a resolution of non objection for the two developments. So that's why we're with you here today to talk about it. I hate to start out this early with a question, but when you say acquired HUD funding, I mean, obviously the applications that they haven't been awarded yet. Is that correct? The four percent tax credit? That's different, sir. I think what they're the funding that they've got on board is for construction and the developers here so he can. I'll ask that later. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Sure. OK. So there are two different projects on the same location. The first one is the standard. It's a four percent tax credit development. The developer is a holdings as well as the Housing Authority. They will both be managing this one. It's located west of Mayhill Road. There's a map right over there and I'll show you a location map here in just a second. As I said, they got the rezoning. So it's now zoned Regional Center Residential 2. It is on 10, a little over 10 acres. They're proposing to build three story buildings, a total of 263 units with one, two and three bedrooms for that development. How many units was it? I'm sorry. 263, I believe. Yes, 263. OK. The other one is the Hudson at Med Park Station. That's also a tax credit development. O'Halla will be the one developing and managing that one. Same location. They also got the rezoning change to the Regional Center Residential 2. That one sits on a little over six and a half acres. They're also proposing to build that three story buildings. That's only going to be 160 units. That's going to be a senior development and one, two bedrooms for that development. Here is the location of the map that shows where it's located. It's just north of the Med Park Station. Right here is the DCTA rail line. There's actually a multifamily development right there, and this is the parking lot you see for Med Park Station. So just north of that and just off the grid here on the south end is Medical City of Den. Yes, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Mr. Gabales, could you go back one slide? Yes, sir. So in the Hudson, which is the senior development, the developer and the manager are just O'Halla and the housing authority is not involved in this one? No, I believe they are partners for the development. I'm not sure about the management, but we can get that cleared up. The reason I'm asking is because I don't know the name of the first one. The standard? Yeah. They're involved, so that means that they would be, that would be a tax exempt property. Yes, both of these would be so. Both of these would be two. Okay, thank you. Here's the proposed site plan that they submitted as part of their SUP. As you can see, they're right next door to each other. It is 18 acres that those two projects sit on. They will have separate entrances and separate amenities for each one of these projects. They were required to do some outreach as part of the rez oning and SUP. They notified the 12 property owners around this development and actually spoke with three of them about this project. Just to go over a little bit of the details, as I mentioned , this is 4%, so that means this is a non-competitive program under the TDHCA process, unlike the 9% one. So this is a non-competitive program. Both of these do entail the partnership between AHALA and the Dent Housing Authority. As a result, the Dent Housing Authority could see about almost $5 million in income, which is made up of both developer fees and cash flow over a 15-year period. I sent you all a memo yesterday evening with the information they shared with us that gave you kind of the breakdown over those 15 years as to how the payout would be for the developer fees and what the estimated would be for the cash flow. And to note that, just for the public, the first two years, at least according to that information, was about $900,000 a year, plus or minus, so almost a couple million dollars within the first two years. Is that right? The first two years would entail the developer fees for the Housing Authority as part of their agreement. So almost half of that would occur within the first two years of that 15-year period. Right, $962,500 for year one and year two. All right. Also, one of the deal points is that the Dent Housing Authority will have the right of first refusal to be able to purchase the property after 15 years as a substantial savings to them. There are restrictions set for this development, meaning that residency is only for those that are at 60% of AMI, which stands for the area median income. So basically that means that tenants will be earning somewhere at or below $43,020 annually to be able to qualify for residency here. And again, the reason they're here is because under TDHCA rules, the city must approve a resolution of non-opposition for the application to be able to proceed and continue to move forward in the TDHCA process. So a couple questions. The senior project, it's restricted to seniors and these income standards or benchmarks apply. The other one, is it all affordable housing units or are there some market units? Okay. I'm not sure. Yeah, we can answer all those when we have them come up. Okay. I'll hold my question. Thank you. And then also as a regard, it relates to the property tax information because this is a partnership with Den House Authority. This development will be tax exempt from property taxes. Currently the land is agricultural tax exempted and it's valued at about $247,000 annually. So if you look at the property tax that this land remains undeveloped at the current rates for both the City of Den, the county and the school district over a 15 year period, it'll equate to about $115,000 undeveloped. If this project was to proceed forward as a regular project like this, that it does not have the tax exempt status, it's estimated it would be valued somewhere around $11.8 million as it relates to being able to assess a taxable value. And so when you look at the taxes that a property like this would pay over 15 years to both the city, county and the school district, right now the best estimate is about $4.5 million. So that is the part that will be foregoed by making it a tax exempt. Question. Yes, sir. I looked at that. That was the backup that was provided for us? That was part of that. And looking at that backup, they used, I don't know who the they is, but whoever prepared this, it says this assumes that the property is assessed at a similar value to Prov idence Place, the nearby tax credit property. And that's assessed at $27,945 per unit. But it's not my understanding is when you're assessing apartment buildings, whether it's tax exempt or not, doesn 't necessarily automatically entitle it to some type of lower assessed value. You have to go in and show why it's less. So but then they show also two other apartment buildings, 2010 construction, 2011 construction, and what they're associated, well, I looked up what their associated assessed values were. One of them, they said, was assessed at $185,000 a unit. That seems a little high. So what I did was I took the $130,000 a unit for the lodge at Pecan Shores, because if you're building apartments now, you're going to be paying, I mean, that's going to be your cost. It's going to be $100,000 to $130,000 per unit, most likely . When you do that, based upon the units that are described, which is 263 units and 160 units, you get assessed values if they're assessed along the same principles, $34 million for the 263 unit and $20 million for the 160 unit for a combined total of about $54 million. Now, if you take taxes on $54 million, the tax rate, total tax rate in Denton is about $2.5 per $100,000 or $100. That comes out to about $1.3 million a year. The city portion of that is about $300,000 a year. So I really question this data about that this is all the taxes that will be lost because there's no way anything's going to be appraised at $27,000 a unit. If the unit's 800 square feet, that's, what is that, $30 a foot? It's just, you can't, it just, it doesn't make sense. So that's what I'm concerned about is I don't know, I mean, I don't, that doesn't mean that I'm for or against it. I just want to make sure I'm dealing with accurate data. So if I've missed something here, then, well, I'm real open to it. No, and actually, Matt Vrunik with Ohala Holdings is the one that prepared this document and he's prepared to come and talk to you about the numbers he put in there and why he put them in the way he did. Okay, that will be helpful. But, all right, yes, Councilmember Gregory. It, I thought that sometimes rental property was assessed not on the basis of whatever it cost to construct, but on the rental income. It does, it is. And that that's an alternate way to do it. It is, but when you have a tax credit property like this, where you have a limit on what you can charge, it's an artificial rental income, right? Because the developer is getting additional equity through the tax credits. Right, I understand that. But does that mean that the President's district does not use the rental income formula? That's a good question because if they do, I would, that would be concerning to me because if you're not in partnership with someone, in other words, that's tax exempt and you're paying regular ad valorem taxes, then it seems like there's a double dip of the state is giving additional money for equity in order to provide this low end, this affordable housing, workforce housing. But then the city is also subsidizing it. We might just need to get a little bit more information and follow up. Yes. Yes, I'm sorry, Councilmember Gary. I don't know if you have it, John, in your presentation, but was there a letter of support from the school district? No, ma'am, we have not had time to reach out to the school district. This all transpired within the last week or so, so I have not had a chance to get input from either the school district or the county yet on these developments. Is there a deadline of some sort? Yes. And Mr. Rudick from O'Hall, I can tell you the deadline they need to reach with HUD is coming up later this month, I believe, for them to be able to move forward with funding that they've acquired from HUD for construction. Thank you. And as it relates to the need for workforce housing or affordable housing, apparently there have been 82 total rental properties that are located in Denton. Of those, seven of them are workforce-related developments. So that's about 8.5% of the total. Of the workforce development housing, however, they are at capacity at 99% occupancy. And so there have been no workforce development units added to the City of Denton since 2007. Now, I did mention that the developer, Matt Rudick with O'H all Holdings, is here. So is Sherry McDade, the CEO for the Denton Housing Authority, Dr. Catherine Stream with the Denton Housing Authority Board Chair, and Ramon Guajardo with Rommel Consulting. So they can probably answer a little more detail about some of the questions that you have as it relates to the development. Excuse me. I should remember this from the last conversation. It seems like it was just a little time ago. But the workforce housing that was built in 2007, is that on the tax rolls? Or is that? No, I'm not sure what you're referring to. Yeah. Any questions for staff before we have the developer come up? Everybody okay? All right. Thank you, John. Yes, sir. If you'll just state your name and address for the record, that'd be great. Matthew Rudjink, 5422 Monticello. To answer your question directly, the property you're referring to is Providence Place that was constructed in 2007. That is the property that was used in the tax analysis to generate the $11.8 million valuation for this property. And Mayor, to answer your question regarding the evaluation reassessment of rental property, you are correct. Oftentimes, most oftentimes, the assessor will use an income capitalization approach. And what that means is he takes the net operating income of the property, which is just income less expense, and he multiplies that by a market rates multiple. Whether that's five times or ten times, it depends on market conditions. You are correct. The newer product in Denton is assessed, and we provided links to that at north of $100,000 per unit, because the rents are unrestricted and the landlord can charge $2,000, $3,000 a month, whatever he wants to charge, he has that right. And therefore, when you apply a five or ten times multiple to that bottom line income, you are going to get a larger assessed value on that. Versus an income restricted property where we have limits set on how much we can charge residents, it's going to be far lower number because for a one bedroom unit, for example, when we're at $700 versus $14 or $1500, that's the big delta between our number and a market rate property. Okay, a couple of questions on that. On the Providence Place, I mean, do we have a comparison of what the unit mix is there together with what the rents are being charged? Because even at seven, let's say, what are your one bedroom rents in your non-senior? In our non-senior, they're roughly $750. Because what, and this will be a very interesting conversation to have with the appraisal district as well, because I'm pretty familiar with multifamily in Denton and what rents are and rents that are $700, $750 a month. Those apartment units are being assessed at well above $27, 000. I mean, it's usually more like $45,000 to $50,000 or $60, 000. So I'm not necessarily saying that this is a problem for the presentation. I'm having a hard time buying that the city, the county, and the school is only losing $300,000 a year based on a property assessment of something that's ten years older without any other information about it. So this is pretty, I mean, and that's a critical component of this presentation. I mean, I think if, let's say if we doubled that, if the city was losing out on eight or all the entities were losing out on $8 to $9 million, that may have a bearing on the discussion because I know you, it doesn't matter how you get it, if you get it in the form of paying no property taxes and you can shift some of those costs to the housing authority, or if you don't have the cost of the housing authority, you gotta pay the price. You gotta look at which one's the most economical for me, and it sounds like you made your choice, which we're gonna probably hear in your presentation. But that was my only concern was that I was really taken back by the $27,000 valuation, and I do these protests every year for 20 years and with multifamily, and so I just can't imagine something like that being, something's not right somewhere. But I won't press that anymore. No, no, it's certainly a valid question, which is why we linked the specific properties here, so you can go pull them. And the reason why we used 2007 property versus a brand new property is exactly what John meant. There's not been a workforce property delivered in the city since 2007. I wish I could pull a brand new property, but I can't. So, and I don't know their exact NOI, and I don't know the market rate property's exact NOI, but all I can use as a basis for comparison is that. It's just this number, yeah. And so really, I think the key point here to focus on not the specific number, be it 27 or 30, it's the order of magnitude delta between a tax credit property and a market rate deal. Even if you say it's not 27, it's 30, it's 35, the delta is still four to five, three to five, however you want to describe it. But I hear you, and I can certainly, I mean, we can do our best to pull some additional data points and touch points, but this was given the adjacency and the fact that it is a tax credit workforce development, I thought it was a pr udent example. Okay. I think somebody had a question. Council Member Briggs. Well, I did want to ask about, follow up on your question about the market rate units here in the property, what the comparison is. So it is a 100% workforce housing property. 100% of the units are restricted to residents earning at or below $43,000, which is 60% of area median income, and that goes for both the seniors as well as the families. Okay. Thank you. Council Member Begayre. I'll ask the same question I asked of Mr. Cabrales. Was there any contact made with the school district? Not that I'm aware of, no. Okay. Is it normal to not contact the school district? Because I know from our perspective, that was one of our big concerns, was that the school district be aware of low income workforce housing that comes online in their school zones. I wouldn't say either reaching out or not reaching out is typical. We as developers will oftentimes defer to council and do whatever we are told we need to do, and if we need to reach out to the ISD, we'll be happy to do so. And I guess you weren't advised by DHA that that was one of our concerns. I know the list of concerns is fairly significant. I think I was doing our best to answer the specific questions that we got, that we've received in the last couple of weeks, and that was our focus. Okay. And then my next question for you is the same one I asked for all of our developers. Is this a project that's contingent upon a partnership with DHA? It is. Okay. Thank you. Any other? I see on the backup that we were provided, so the rent schedules for -- give me the names of them again. The Standard and the Hudson. Standard and the Standard is the market rate, the Hudson is the senior? No, the family. And then the Standard is the family and the Hudson is the seniors. Okay. All right. So the bullet point that says rents are restricted at 776 through 1057 for one, two, and three bedroom units, does that apply to both of those projects or just one? It applies to both. However, the senior component only has one and two bedroom units. Okay. And the two bedroom rent is in the $900 range. Is that for both of them? That is correct. Okay. All right. Let's see if I have any more questions. So when I look at -- so you're saying that this is conting ent upon partnering with the Housing Authority? Correct. All right. Okay. And when is all this due? We -- so we've been working on this for going on, what, seven months now at this point. We applied early on for HUD financing for the construction loan, which entails a long application process. They provide this with an invitation, which means we like your project, we want you to proceed. We have -- you have four months to take that invitation and convert it into a formal application. We are two weeks away from having to go reapply and starting the clock back at zero. And that's kind of the decision, the inflection point we're at right now. Sure. I guess my -- and I'm back to the tax issue. I mean, I've been in the multifamily business for 20 years in this town. And so when I hear rents of two bedrooms are $900, can you find two bedrooms that are more than $900? You sure can. Can you find two bedrooms that are nice, that are $900, that are market rates, that aren't restricted? It's not brand new construction, but it's reasonable construction. And those units are being assessed for $45,000 to $65,000 a unit. So that's really -- my major concern is not that that would stop the project. That would stop -- that would necessarily stop either my opposition or favor of it. But when I see a number that for me seems very different than what my experience has been over the last 15 or 20 years, it just causes me to stop and have to go, okay, wait a minute, because what's it going to cost to build these? I think our current budget's around $50 million. Okay. So about -- I mean, when I did that calculation, that was at $130,000 a unit. So it's close to about $100,000, $110,000 a unit, it sounds like. It's probably more than that. Yeah, okay. So you see my concern of that's what it costs to build, and then we're using $27,000 a unit for an assessed value calculation. That's my only -- I understand -- and my response, I guess, would be the cost of the constructions really is really burdened on us. And I -- but to the point regarding the rents, we've done -- we build market rate. We build a lot of product. There is -- you cannot find a two-bedroom unit that's of similar quality and location anywhere near the pricing that we'll offer. And what we've seen in Denton, because of the demand -- and I call it a problem all over North Texas -- there's more people, there's more demand than there is supply. And when that equation persists, the rents are what go north or what continue to rise. Sure. We have ongoing long-term restrictions that keep -- will keep these properties affordable to seniors, to families for 30-plus years. So in the face of 99%, 100% occupancy when market rate owners and developers can take that two-bedroom charge, $2, 000, whatever they want to charge, we cannot -- we can certainly not do that. And am I correct in that -- and the compensation that you receive for not being able to do that is the tax credit? That is correct. And if I go by the data here -- let me go. The 4% tax credit -- is it 60%? What does it say? It says 9% -- tax credit for 9% equals approximately 70% of the total development cost, whereas on the 4% equal to approximately 30% of the total development cost. Is that correct? That is correct. So $50 million project, that means you'll get tax credits in the amount of $15 million. Give or take, yes. And so then that's really your compensation for not doing market rents because that's in essence the subsidy that is allowing this restriction to be put on the project. Well, there's a difference between sources of funds and then compensation. We use that $15 million in addition to HUD debt to construct the property. Right. Within our budget, we have a developer fee. Now, certainly a little bit of that comes from the tax credits. A little bit comes from the debt that we are borrowing in order to construct. But we are not making $15 million on this deal. We're making far less than that. Oh, no, I understand that. So what I think I just heard you say was it's almost 100% financing. Well, how much equity, hard equity, does your development firm have in this project? Right now we have close to $300,000. I mean, once it's finished. Once it's finished. I mean, by the time you add the tax credit and you've got your financing and if it costs $50 million to construct, you've taken out of your pocket X amount to put into this project. You don't have to tell me exactly. Is it 10%? 5%? 10%. Okay. Okay. All right. I'm ready to give direction if there are no, I don't know if there's more. Yeah, I've got some questions for the Denton Housing Authority. Any other questions for the, and of course, if you have any other things you'd like to add, please feel free to, Council Member Hawkins, if you'll ask a question, then you 'll go ahead and. Sure, I'll be quick. Yep. Okay, so just so I'm clear, one unit will have 263 units and then the other one will have 160, so we'll have a total of 423 units. That is correct. And if this is approved or a resolution of non-objection is given, all 423 units will not be on the tax rolls. I just want to make sure that is perfectly clear. Correct. Okay, thank you. Okay. Go ahead. Anything else you'd like to. No, that's, I appreciate your time. You bet. Thank you. All right. Who's going to be speaking for the Housing Authority? I just had a couple of questions. I'm not sure they'll tell us what the question is. Oh, oh, oh, would you rather me do that or. No. Okay. I'm looking at the backup that we were given has a what does DHA plan to do with the revenue gained from this agreement. I'm on that page. Okay. So a couple of questions. And I met with you and the board individually at a special call meeting and we discussed sort of the last meeting and some of the questions and things such as that. So certainly want to acknowledge that. Correct. So and I wouldn't call them concerns or more sort of answers that I'm still trying to get. And that is it's my understanding that part of the reason to partnership is because of decreased federal funding. In other words, sort of a backstop because you need that additional revenue stream to to fill in the gap from federal funding cuts. Is that the partnership allows us to put together the financial package that we need to be able to do it because the housing authority does not have the money to build this development. No, I totally get that. What I'm saying is at least from from the sheet of the backup, it says backfill federal budget cuts, allowing DHA to provide housing options for about one hundred seventy individuals and families that would otherwise be homeless. And that was based upon the original kind of thought coming out of Washington that HUD was going to get a major slash to the section eight. I'm sorry. Yes. The section eight housing voucher program is the program that we have that's funded by the federal government. Right. We've already received notice that that program, the funding for that program will be reduced. And so as of today, I'm looking at us having to reduce the voucher program by about one hundred and sixty six families . And so what we're doing, we're having to do right now is to keep lowering the families, the number of families that are on the program that have vouchers. So as they turn in a voucher, we're not able to reissue those vouchers. We're hoping to be able to apply for some shortfall funding to cover so that we don't have to terminate families from the program. So and I remember us talking about that at the at the last meeting. So how does the because you know, they just passed a sort of an omnibus bill, sort of temporary funding for the government so that it doesn't shut down. And it talks about that in the section eight and public housing that there was an increase of six hundred and twenty three million above the fiscal year enacted in 2016. In other words, the fear was they're not going to keep it level from 2016. They're going to cut it, right, which would have resulted in all these families. Are you not being able to have all these vouchers that do attrition? You just couldn't reissue them or you might have to actually terminate some of them. Correct. We'll be funded at right now. The number is 97 percent of our eligible funding. OK, is that is that including the funding that they just did, like on May the first, which was yesterday? Yes. OK, now they did cut the administration costs. It was lowered to seventy seven percent. Right. So given if we just took off the seventy seven percent and left it over, you took that off the table for a second. So the ninety seven percent funding, where does that leave you in the in the number? Because I think you were counting, I think you were basing the other numbers on what was it? Eighty percent funding, seventy seven, ninety four, ninety four percent. So where does that leave you now? About one hundred and fifty thousand for HAP expenses. No, I'm talking about how many families you've got? Ninety seven percent of your funding that you did last year . About thirteen hundred and sixty families from fifteen. We have fifteen hundred and thirty six vouchers. We'd have to lower the program to about thirteen sixty. Thirteen sixty. That's the guesstimate. OK, all right. And my my my goal and I've said this from the time we all met in the conference room down there to start talking about this situation or this partnership was great opportunity to provide some income stream that right now is not available to the Denton Housing Authority through these partnerships, through the development fees and the like. And and my goal in that was, OK, if we had those additional revenue streams, we also have some additional initiatives that we were trying to pilot and that we were trying to find some backbone structure for, which to me is a good fit . I mean, if we get additional, I mean, this is what you guys do. You provide, you know, workforce housing. Yes, absolutely. So my my concern, which was the first meeting and not as bad this time because I do have some data, but this is a lot of money. I mean, in two years, you're going to get basically two million dollars, one point eight million dollars. If this gets approved, the partnership, you'll get nine hundred sixty two one year and then nine hundred sixty two thousand the next year. I don't I don't see what the plan is, how to really allocate those funds. I mean, I see the different the different sort of general topics like new programs like I know about the backfilling. You know, I don't know how much that's going to take. I don't know how much three percent of your funding. What amount of what amount of money is that? Which money? The the you said you've got ninety seven percent of your funding that you'd have to take a hundred and something families off the housing program if the funding stays the way it is now. So to avoid taking those hundred and thirty families off of the housing voucher program, how much money is required not to do that? I would need about six hundred thousand for a year. Six hundred thousand for a year. So the program back up to the level that it is to the fifteen thirty six. Okay. All right. So the six hundred thousand a year. So if you don't get any additional funding. So what I'm hearing you say is if you if there's no other additional revenue, you've got to reduce your vouchers. Correct. And if the administration that you said went to seventy seven percent, the admin fees. Yeah. Which I think that's a pretty big hit. What was it last year? Eighty four percent. So that's a big hit. What we use for the operation of the housing authority. Yes. So what would have to what would happen if you weren't able to find the additional money not only for the voucher program, but for the administration, the operation, you're going to have to have to lay off staff and reduce costs. Okay. All right. And just just so you know, too, Chris, we started all this to address the need that we as a housing authority have. Yes. And in addressing the need that the housing authority has, it's also a need that the city has. We have a waiting list with over three thousand families on it waiting for section a voucher, waiting for some rental assistance based on what we're hearing now from Congress. They'll never get a voucher. Our families will never get a voucher because we're not able to reissue the vouchers that we have. So the housing authority has entered into these partnerships as an alternative way to bring additional affordable housing to the community to serve Denton and also the families that we serve. So I would say to you that the partnership and any new development that we do is to try to offset and balance the need that's out there for affordable housing. Even our families that do have a section eight voucher, they have to be really careful if they want to move because it's so hard for them to find the unit because we mentioned to you that the occupancy for all apartments in this city is about what? 99 percent. It's high. So it's very hard, even with the section eight voucher, for someone to find a place to live. And then when you throw in the fact that families that need a place to live who don't have a section eight voucher, who 'll never get one, or maybe they're at 50 percent, 60 percent of the in mind. Those folks, where are they living? Where are they going to live? Right. So I understand what everybody's saying and you're trying to get to the number and the dollar and I totally understand it. We're willing to take whatever direction that you would like to give us on what you would like to see the money used for. But I will tell you that as the director of the Housing Authority, I'm always going to look out for the Housing Authority first and make sure it's running and I'm going to take care of our families. So I'm willing to take whatever direction, whatever dollar amount that you want to give us that you would like to see us put back into the community. But we already have some of those plans. I just can't give you an exact numbers for those. Right. So when you say that you're going to look after the Housing Authority first, help me understand what you mean by that because I don't really see there's a difference between what I'm talking about or what we're talking about and what you're saying. Help me understand that. Chris, even though if we have a Section 8 voucher program that has 1,536 vouchers, if we lower it down to 100 vouch ers, I still have to follow the same rules, same laws, same policy that HUD has for every other Housing Authority. So it doesn't matter what size my Housing Authority is, I still have to operate it at the standard that's set by HUD. So it takes staff, it takes supplies and materials, it takes a vehicle to be able to operate the program. I got you. What you're saying is you've got to get enough funding to meet your operational requirements. And the requirements. Yes. Okay. As far as on, you say there's 3,000 people on the voucher program, but unless they give you more funding for more vouchers, or people roll off and people can come in off the queue, we're limited. I mean, it doesn't matter whether we have 1,000 workforce housing units, the voucher program itself is static pretty much at this point. Correct. Correct. And of course, there's no more public housing being built. Okay. Well, I've monopolized it, so I'm going to let everybody go around the queue. Yes. Thank you, Mayor. The last time that we had a discussion about this on a different set of complexes, there were more questions un answered than answered. And I'm very grateful that this time we've gotten our questions in early, and I've gotten good answers. And the first question I had was, despite what we have in terms of the waiting list, because I know that that waiting list fluctuates and people get on the list and move out of town and things like that, the question was, you know, we assume that we need more workforce housing. But do we? And so I asked several questions, and the data that's come back to me in terms of the numbers suggests that we absolutely need more workforce housing. So that essential question has been answered because it was like, why are we going to invest city tax dollars or redirect city tax dollars if we don't really need it? We've got to make sure the data has to show that we need it . And I'm satisfied that we do. And for me, my thinking on this is for us to do the letter of the resolution of non-objection, which I'm ready to do. What it means is that we're simply transferring tax revenue that would come to the city from the property taxes to the Denton Housing Authority. And that seems like an all right arrangement to me because that's a way for the city to participate and to address the needs of our citizens who need housing and addresses a lot of things because it means that they could live in Denton and work in Denton as opposed to having to move out and having to commute to Dent on where they have all kinds of additional costs. And as some of the information that we got pointed out, if they have more affordable housing, if a lower percentage of their paycheck goes to pay for housing, then they have more money to buy goods and services in the town. Correct. So that helps our business community also. But what that means to me is that the city and the Denton Housing Authority become partners because we're indirectly or directly putting a lot of tax dollars to work through you for our citizens who need workforce housing. And if we're going to be partners, then one of the great things about a partnership that makes it work is when we communicate. And I would think that probably going forward, if this passes, if we're moving forward, that it would be beneficial for both the Housing Authority and for the City Council if we on maybe a twice a year basis got a report. You know, we get I think quarterly reports from the Transportation Authority, Denton County, DCTA. And that comes to a committee. And I think once a year, then they bring it to the entire council. So I would think that having some regular reporting from you all, for us thinking more about this on a regular basis and posing questions, I suspect it will take a little while for us to -- for you guys to be able to develop a report that basically satisfies the kinds of questions that we have. Because in some cases, we're still trying to figure out the questions to ask. But I would hope that going forward, if this passes, that we could start arranging for a regular type of communication. If it's -- however that works out if it's between staff and then our city manager passes it on to us, whatever. So that when these questions come up in the future, we're all -- we don't have to do quite as much homework. We don't have to cram quite as much. But I am uncomfortable with moving forward with the resolution of non-objection. Is that the -- am I saying it right? Okay. >> Okay. Mayor Pro Tem, did you have something? This way. >> Yeah. One of the things, Councilmember Gregory, that you brought up at our last -- the last time that DHA came up was getting that letter from Denton ISD. And frankly, the fact that we don't have it is very upsetting to me because these properties are going to be put in places that already have 70 and 80% reduced fee lunches. They're Title I schools. The fact that not only are we -- it's not just an investment of city money. It's an investment of school district and county money as well. Without knowing how the school district feels about taking this level of property taxes off their rules and in addition adding 400, maybe 800 students who will very likely be on reduced lunch to already burdened Title I schools, I think it's really irresponsible to approve this at this time and I just can't believe we didn't even get any type of letter when it was very clear that we were supposed to get that last time. >> Could I respond a little bit? >> Sure. >> I actually asked a couple of school board members and I left a message with the superintendent and they had no comment. >> Well, I think they need to be beholden to their voters the same way that we are. Let me put it that way. I mean, calling them up and saying, hey, do you like this or not like it, I'm just not -- I'm not satisfied with that level of transparency or governance with this type of money . I mean, I don't know if anybody has experience with Title I schools. It's serious. The demands that are placed on Title I schools are so intense. It's not even like a normal school. And I'm speaking from -- >> I have experience. >> Yes. And with both Title I and non-Title I schools and it is like a normal school. It's very much like a normal school. >> Were you teaching, Dalton, or were you the principal? >> Yes. >> It's a little hard on the teachers. >> I've been both. >> Okay. >> Councilwoman Baguieri, traditionally in this type of development, we're not having new kids come in from all over to move into this development. You traditionally see the families shifting around. They're moving maybe from one side of town to one school to possibly to this new development because it's something new and something better for them to move to. So it's not necessarily bringing more kids that are going to require so many more services. >> Okay. >> I appreciate that clarification. I mean, I don't think there's any way to verify it, but -- >> And the tax credit process that we go through doesn't require us to go get a letter of approval or something like a resolution or ordinance from the city for approval for these type of developments. But we do try to talk to and communicate with everyone and let them know this is what's going on. And I apologize because it was my understanding that we did have a conversation and I think it may have been through phone calls with the school district. And no one gave us anything, whether good or bad or up or down. >> I mean, I guess my concern is, you know, the public was never notified that the school board has no opinion or no comment on these. Anyway, I don't want to beat that dead horse. I think we're really clear that we wanted something from the school board and writing. And that wasn't something that I made up. It was the council direction. >> I'm sorry I didn't get that. I didn't get that direction. I apologize. The other thing that I thought was really clear about last time as far as our council direction was that we wanted to clarify our relationship with DHA as it related to the orig ination of the partnership. The origination of the partnership had certain terms that was a bargain for exchange. So in exchange for those things, we were supposed to receive services or what have you. When I met with the staff about where had these tax monies been allocated prior to these new developments, the only services that were provided at, I think it's the place by the courthouse, I'm sorry I can't remember the name of it, Renaissance Courts, was an after school program . And there was no indication how much that cost DHA or if it was with a partnership with a non-profit or if the non- profit was compensated. And there was also, and then at the Pecan Place Apartments, there was a food pantry. So those were the two public services that were provided by virtue of taking all of these properties off the tax rolls. And I appreciate the supplement that Mr. Cabrales and you provided outlining how monies would be distributed. It's just inadequate. I mean, that's a lot of money to take off the tax roll without some specifically designated items. Councilwoman, the document that you're referring to is a document that was from I believe 1980. Which document? The cooperative agreement with the Housing Authority in the city. Now, of course, that was, I think it's older than that. 71. Excuse me. And so in reviewing that document, that document is really referring to public housing. And the Housing Authority does not operate any public housing. Okay, that's fine. Again, we haven't had the conversation with our legal counsel. And I'm guessing we need to have some type of resolution that says we no longer want this ordinance to be in effect. We no longer want to collect the tax revenue or whatever it is that we have to do. But that's a discussion that we never had. And what I got from our direction at the last time a 4% contract came up was that we really wanted to have a more in depth discussion about our relationship with DHA before these projects came up again. So I'm not in favor of moving forward. We haven't had that discussion. And we certainly don't have anything in writing from the school board, which is exactly what we had specifically requested. Yes, we're going to go. Councilmember Hawkins. I'll echo what Councilwoman Begarry said. I did feel like we were going to have a more in depth discussion about this. And I was actually very surprised that maybe everybody was that this was on the agenda, that it was just on the board to talk about again. There are a number of things that I want to discuss that we had even talked about in executive session that I'm a little bit leery of what I can and cannot talk about in that discussion. But yeah, I was very surprised about this. And two, I wanted to know kind of the distinction between last time when the developer was able to still do the project, but us to be able to vote on it. And then it stays on the tax rolls and that sort of thing. I know that we need workforce housing. That's my struggle here is I know we need it. When you're talking about taking families off of it, that's awful. But I'm just not comfortable yet giving direction to move forward with this without having all those things cleared up. And I thought that's where I was last time. I still feel I'm just in that same position. So I'm sorry. >> Councilmember Wasning. >> If we use the mayor's math, we're talking about taking $ 54 million off the tax rolls. I'm just not prepared to do that. Property tax bills are due soon. Everybody's going to swallow hard when they get their tax bill this year. So I'm just not prepared to take properties off the tax roll. We did have a conversation about asking for the school board. The developer said he's had four months to work on this. And all of a sudden, same thing. We've got two weeks. Got to make a decision. I'm concerned that the developer's numbers when they came forward were not true market numbers as well. So thank you, Mayor, for putting the math together because I appreciate that. And if you conservatively look at the 263 units for family and say two kids per unit, that's over 500 kids in the school. And to not have anything from Danton ISD saying here's what it's going to cost, hard costs, bringing those students in. So I'm not prepared to move forward today. Thank you. >> Let me clarify, as you called it, the mayor's math. I just pointed out what I know from my own experience now if the appraisal district, I know how they compute assessed values based upon income producing properties. I would be stunned at Providence Place at 27,000, but I'm not saying that they would be $100,000 a unit. I just was questioning the 27,000 a unit without any more additional data. And as I've said several times in that, that doesn't necessarily mean I'm for or against. I just want to make sure I understand the numbers. I do have a question if I could, Mayor Pro Tem. Are these inseparable projects? In other words, if the council approved one resolution of non-opposition but maybe not another, does that -- what is the effect of that? >> They're inseparable. >> Okay. All right. If you'll come up and talk, that's fine. Just because the television audience will be able to hear you. >> They're inseparable for no other reason than our contract to purchase is a singular contract. The construction contract, all the design has been done for two separate. >> Okay. Sure. Got you. All right. You bet. Mayor Pro Tem. >> I have a question for Henry. >> Oh, sir. >> Just to clarify, and I apologize if this has been answered as I'm just trying to process through all this. >> Yeah. >> So my -- to understand that without this specific partnership with DHA, this project can't work. >> That is correct. >> Okay. So it's not like the other ones that we talked about last time. >> Yeah. And I don't want to get into the nuanced difference between the nines and the fours because it's incredibly and terribly complex. It employs a lot of CPAs and a lot of tax attorneys to make it very difficult. Nines are -- I guess at a high level difference is nines are incredibly competitive. >> Right. >> And incredibly valuable. 85 properties applied for nines in the DFW region includes Denton. Maybe eight will be awarded credits this cycle. And so because they are so valuable, that's why they are so competitive. That's why so many people apply for them. The fours are not competitive, less valuable, which is why we need to be more creative, for lack of a better word, with the financing. And the ways to be creative with financing are either to get a significant amount of grants or soft loan money, CDBG , home-related, or through a partnership with a housing authority to obtain the exemption. >> Thank you. That helps. And another question, and this is taking advantage of the expertise in the room. And it might not be as much for you, maybe when the Americans chime in on this as well with the mayor's math. As we think about, and I see this answer to Councilmember Gregory's question, and he followed up on this in terms of the understanding the need for workforce housing. And you put a number in there in the backup of somewhere around 4,000, 3,937 units needed over the next five years. My guess in a community like that, and this is just a lay man's perspective, that we're not a wealthy community by typical DFW standards. That when we talk about the lack of affordable housing, we 're probably talking more about a supply issue more so. So when you have a limited supply, all your prices are going to rise necessarily. But if we were tomorrow to wake up and see 4,000 more units on the ground without any consideration for some of them being designated as workforce housing, subsid ized housing, lower income housing. My guess is, does the market start correcting itself at that point? I mean, is it really a matter of supply? Is the Denton problem with workforce housing, as we understand it, that we don't have enough workforce designated housing? Or is it that we have just a supply problem and as a result everything's going way up such that there's not many affordable housing options? Does that make sense, my question? Yeah, I think it's a difficult one. I don't know who's best answer that. I think it's a difficult one to answer. Certainly, and Denton is not unique in the supply concern with housing. Lack of supply creates a run up in pricing, creates a run up in rent. The problem currently, and the problem that's been the last couple years, is the cost to construct continues to rise exponentially, far quicker than developers can control. And so, yes, if someone were to come build 4,000 units tomorrow, it'd be tough to argue that rents wouldn't come down or right size. What I can tell you is, given how difficult and costly and time consuming it is to conceive a well thought out, well designed, well located project, I think it'd be difficult to see a scenario where something like that were to occur. It wouldn't take 4,000. It wouldn't take 4,000. The universities obviously are in the process of building more housing for themselves. And that's what's driven a lot of what's happening in Dent on is because they have not kept up with student housing. And the universities continue to grow, so they bring students in in the dorms, and they leave the dorms, they've got to come out, and they've got to go somewhere. That's why you see most of those developing around the university. But we've had apartment complexes out on North Locust Street, and I don't think that was a tax credit property, the big one out on North Locust. I don't remember. Do you know? Is the one out on North Locust in Luke 288? I don't think that's a -- well, no, it's been built before 2007, so it must not be. So yes, I mean, to a large degree, and yes, construction costs are up, but that's because everybody's coming here. That's because labor is in tough supply, and everybody wants the concrete, and everybody -- you start getting a slight recession and things such as that, like we saw, you know, six or seven or eight years ago. I mean, you could rent apartments for almost anywhere, for anything. I mean, people were giving them away. So that's the issue. For me, this really comes down to -- I just want to make sure that -- I make myself clear, and I think this really is a policy decision that we're making at the council level to say whatever the tax amount is, whether it's your figure or my figure or somewhere in between, we're saying for us and for the other jurisdictions that -- and I'm not saying that and emphasizing it because I don't think we should do that, but we are saying we're okay with taking that money outside of the budgetary process now. That's outside of, you know, going through the budget process and allocating it to this particular situation. I don't mind doing that. I'm going to be truthful. I think to do that, I'm going to need, I think, the housing authority on a quarterly basis to provide just those quarterly reports of here's what we've got coming in, because what I'm hearing is if we don't do this, you guys are faltering. I mean, you're going to lay off staff. You're going to have to maybe -- I don't know if you have to kick people off, but you certainly can't continue to let people have any vouchers. You'll just have to go through this process of attrition where it gets you down to this place. All right? But I'm going to go on record, and I said you don't have to say that because we're already on the record. I'm going to support this. This is the last one I am supporting without some really hard facts and numbers about how the money is going to be allocated from the Denton Housing Authority, only because if it's $600,000 that you need just to stay af loat, just to keep the status quo of your administration costs and your vouchers, well, that leaves you -- I mean, first of all, in the out years, you're still underwater because there's not that much money coming in in the out years. That $4 million or $5 million gets eaten up in 9 or 10 years. And part of what you're saying you want to use that money for is to create reserve funds to help you purchase the properties. Like, there's one coming up, Renaissance, I think, that's coming up that you need, I think, half a million dollars or I don't know how much it is. About 1.2? 1.2 million to do that. So you guys are basically a real estate investment company. I know you run a housing authority, but you have a lot of real estate. And you manage a lot of real estate, I mean, in these partnership properties and in the voucher program. So I don't mind saying that is the City of Denton going to contribute -- well, I have to say if I knew more what the real number was, I might have a different take on it because the difference between $300,000 a year and $100,000 a year is very different. I don't mind doing that on this one. And I'm going to tell you why. It's primarily because of the senior project. If it could have been bifurcated, I would have voted for the senior project and not voted for the other one. But I also know that we do need workforce housing in this community. But what's going to be vitally important is, first of all, I have a question. I think you might have said -- or not you, as the other guys -- is there the opportunity to set aside a certain number of these units for homelessness initiatives, either through veterans programs like with the VASH vouch ers or with some of the initiatives that United Way is working with in conjunction with the Housing Authority with Denton Affordable Housing, to place people in transitional housing? And that's a hard thing to come by. So is there a willingness on the part of you, the developer , to say -- and probably you could do it out of the senior side because there's seniors who are in that position as well -- that we can set aside, and I'm going to say maybe 15 units in each one, and some of this additional subsidy can help provide some of this operating cost for these units because that's the need as well. I mean -- Yeah, if a condition to such a resolution is a set aside of -- and as you said, 15 per unit -- yeah, we can include that. I think I need to understand better what that entails or who -- from a fair housing perspective, who -- what that block of individuals, what that group is. But I don't have a problem committing to that. Yeah, well, we will obviously follow all fair housing laws, but it would be just that there's different programs that provide housing needs through other kind of supplemental type of -- I mean, rents from maybe some other organizations or even with some of the housing -- because I would feel much more comfortable because that's really what I'm saying is these additional monies that are coming to keep you at your status quo, but also coming in to try to provide some additional kind of services, some additional kind of programs. That's what I'm referring to. So if you're able to do that -- and I don't know if we can make that a condition of the resolution. I don't think we can from based upon -- so in other words, it's your word. All right? So you're saying it. It's recorded. We're being recorded. There's probably nothing legal about it, but I'm just saying that that's something that's important to me because that's the thing that we're -- say that, Councilmember Gary . Yeah. That's not -- you're an attorney. You know how to negotiate a contract. Like, we can make people do things, but not like this and not without a greater discussion that has to happen. I mean -- And it can come through maybe some additional ordinances or additional agreements with the Housing Authority. That if the Housing Authority is going to be in management of this, that they also could provide a little bit more paper trail for that kind of arrangement. So anyway, that's my spiel. So are there any other questions or comments? Because we have to give direction. This isn't an action item tonight, or is it? It is not an action item? No, sir. It's not an action item, but we need direction as to whether or not you want us to bring forward resolutions of non-opposition, two of them, for next council meeting. Okay. Well -- What is difficult about this? You don't ever feel like you're actually just giving direction on the thing on the paper. There's all these other things. That's what I'm struggling with. And there's always the time factor. And I get it. I've been under tons of -- but it's always like, no, it's got to be done in two weeks, or it's got to be done by next week. Why is that? Hold on one second. You can come up here. You can come up here. I mean, you weren't up here last time, but let me just finish. It's just -- Take a deep breath. No, but just that's what the struggle is. Of course we need workforce housing, and everybody here on this council wants workforce housing and recognizes that need and is involved with our communities in so many different ways. And come to my coffee shop, and it's just -- you put on these two different hats and all this, but then you hear like, well, if you don't do this, we're probably going to -- there's 130 families they're going to lose. What? Why would they lose because all of a sudden this isn't built? Why haven't we had the discussion? Councilwoman Begarri is totally right right now, which is rare. She's wicked smart, but rarely right. But she's right. We were supposed to have many different policy -- like points about this before it just came at us again. I just feel like I'm just back in the batting cage again. Like, how the hell did I get back in here again, like, before we talked about it? So maybe that's my spot as a councilperson, but I wanted to just say I had to go on record, if we're not on record, until we say that. Why we're voting the way we are. And I just feel like there's some things that were supposed to happen before we were going to give direction on another one, and they're not -- they have not happened yet. So that's why I am -- go ahead. No, and to answer your question, I don't want to make it feel like we were sabotaging or -- but we did push or I guess postpone this discussion. We came back in January because the direction was go get the SUP and go get the zoning done, which we did. And we did ask and we made ourselves available to have further dialogue on specifics. And if I failed to better articulate that, I apologize. We've been very open and willing to discuss anything. But that's why we're under the gun, because we had to go through the SUP and the zoning, and that took a long time to get all of those materials to a position where we could actually get the city staff to approve. Gotcha. Thank you. I've got a question for legal. Did you have a question? I guess the question -- because Councilmember Gary impugned my legal training, and I really appreciate that. Thank you. I've been humiliated in front of every -- no, I'm just kidding, Councilmember Gary. So my question is this. We've already approved the SUP and the zoning at council level. That's correct. It was before you a few meetings ago. Okay. If the developer was in agreement to modify that SUP to include the conditions stated here today, is that available ? You're asking me for a legal opinion that would be better served in closed session. That's very good answer. That was the test. So that is a question that I would really like to know the answer to, but I want to hear what the direct -- well, should we go into closed session first and then come back with the direction? I certainly want to hear what you have to say. Well, this isn't on the agenda tonight. I don't know when it's planned. I guess next meeting or something like that. I think it has to be the next meeting. Is that correct? To meet the deadline? To meet the timeline that they're under from HUD, yes, sir. I think I hear at least a couple different view points on this issue, enough to say let's put it on the agenda for a vote. And I think others in this room have heard some additional concerns or questions that aren't yet answered that DHA or the developer or other people can come to the table with at that time as part of this hearing and might satisfy some folks. Maybe not. But my other suggestion is it seems like as it relates to -- I mean, I don't feel like I have a holistic perspective on housing issues in Denton. We talk in silos as it relates to affordable housing, workforce housing, low income housing, and then we have discussions about student housing and where those are located and whether or not we want them, whether or not they're appropriate. I think this is all part of an ecosystem, back to my earlier question, that I think sooner or later the city needs to discuss in that holistic broad terms. Because if we're talking about supply issues, then something like a large student housing development actually helps with low income housing down the chain of how that plays out. Because it sucks the demand. Yeah, there's a supply issue gets leveled a bit. So anyways, just as we think about talking about these things in the future, longer term conversations, if it's just the community development type folks talking about this issue, it's going to take a certain shade of discussion. If it's just looking at student housing perspective, I think these all need to be looked at in terms of a comprehensive scope. So just thoughts for -- So what I heard you say is people don't necessarily need to state their direction. We can put it on as an action item, and when we get to the dais, we vote what we believe. Because I hope nothing that I've said, because I know you 're in favor of workforce housing. That doesn't mean however you vote doesn't have any bearing on your belief about that. So I don't take that at all. So if I said something that sort of implies that, then I was mistaken or misspoke. No, it was just your math that was really off-putting today . Well, obviously I can't do math and I can't practice law, so I might as well just hang it up. Yes, Councilmember Wasney. And I'd also like to see a budget of that $4.9 million from Denton Housing Authority in terms of where is that going to be allocated, because that's been rather vague. And Mr. C Manager, I believe you had a comment. No, sir, I'm good. I think we will definitely reach out after this and see if we can't put together some kind of a model policy, a model procedure that future projects would go through that basically serves as a checklist of the kind of information that you're looking for. But I've got some thoughts on that, and we'll get back to you. Okay. Councilmember Briggs, you have the final word. Yes, I'd like to also request the facts on the new data, since the budget has been approved, on how that will affect . You mentioned might be losing some vouchers, and I'd just like to see all that on paper for the next presentation. You mean about how does the most recent omnibus bill allocation affect specifically those? Right, with the administration, with the vouchers, all of that stuff as well. Thank you. All right. Any other questions? So we're going to move forward. We will put them on the agenda. And we will also post a closed session prior to that council meeting to discuss the question that I had. Okay. Fantastic. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, yeah, I want to get, we need to introduce our new person. He's like, whoa, I got to get out of here. These people are crazy. Mario, let me, hold on a second. I've got it right here. Hold on a second. I've got it right here. Karis, Kenasaris, Zaris, is that right? Kenasaris, yes. And Mario is the new assistant city manager, is that correct? Replacing Mr. John Fortune. So welcome. Very spirited discussion today, but this is the way it always goes. So we like our city and we all feel very passionate about our issues, but certainly welcome. Thank you. You bet. All right. We will now adjourn our open session. We will now move into closed session consultation with attorneys under Texas. Good evening. Welcome to the Denton City Council meeting tonight. The mayor is off for the evening, so you're stuck with a relatively leaderless crew this evening, but we appreciate you coming and being in attendance. The first item, if you can, please stand with us and join us for the Pledge of Allegiance to the Two Flags. I come under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I come under Texas flag, I pledge allegiance to the United States, one state, under God, one indivisible. Councilmember Braggs, if you would make your way down to the front. We're going to do something a little bit different tonight for our proclamations and presentations. Since there are several of them, each council member is actually going to do one of the presentations on behalf of the mayor in his absence. So Councilmember Braggs will do the one on the mayor's day of concern for the hungry. Hello. Hi, everybody. Welcome. So anyone who is with the mayor's day of... Can you come on down here, please? Sorry. All right. Hi. Welcome. You just want to stand over here and introduce yourselves and tell us a little about why you're here. We're representing the Denton Community Hunger Coalition. I get that name right. I'm Tom Newell. I'm Stephanie Aulad. My name is Paul. I'm with First Refuge Ministries. All right. Well, it's great to have you here tonight. So I'm going to read the proclamation. Proclamation by the mayor of the city of Denton, Texas, to all whom these presents shall come. Greetings, whereas the city of Denton recognizes adequate nutrition as a basic goal for each citizen. And whereas each day more than 115,480 people in Denton County struggle with food insecurity, which means they do not know where their next meal will come from. And whereas in the Denton Independent School District alone , there are 836 homeless children, 10,177 students who are on free lunches and 1,855 students who are on reduced price lunches. This means that 42 percent of the student population is on free or reduced lunches. Sorry. That's really. Okay. That's an interesting statistic . Whereas organizations such as our daily bread, vision ministries and didn't community food center and the Sal vation Army are working in partnerships with the North Texas Food Bank, United Way of Denton County and the Denton Hunger Coalition to stem the rising tide of hunger in Denton. Whereas every resident and business in Denton can help address hunger in our community by donating food to these organizations, by dropping off donations May 6 through 12 throughout the city at participating businesses, schools, nonprofit locations, which are available online at servedenton.org/mdoc. And whereas today marks the sixth anniversary of a strategic partnership between the NTFB and the Denton Hunger Coalition that established a food distribution hub in Denton for local nonprofits, which no longer have to travel to South Dallas to pick up food and to bring it back to Denton. Now, therefore, I, Keely Briggs, on behalf of Mayor Chris Watts, the city of Denton, Texas, do hereby declare and proclaim May 19th, 2017 as the Mayor 's Day of Concern for the Hungry in the city of Denton and ask the citizens of Denton to join me in donating food to or volunteering for these organizations within our community that are serving those in need. Thank you very much. [Applause] I'm just going to add a couple comments to that since we've got a little bit of a captive audience here. The Denton Hunger Coalition is made up of a number of agencies in the Denton area that are addressing hunger issues. And so it's a cross-section of people in the community. The most visible program that we have is the Denton Mobile Food Pantry that occurs on the second Saturday of each month. It's kind of a farmers market type of program. The Territory Food Bank brings us an 18-wheeler full of food, emphasis on fresh produce, and healthy kinds of things. And that's anywhere from 12,000 to 15,000 pounds of food that we distribute to 250 to 400 families in a two-hour time period on Saturdays. If you want to see a real community-spirited function in progress, stop by and see it sometime. It's currently on the Serve Denton parking lot at Notting ham University. Later in the year, it will be moving to another location based on another agenda item later in the evening. Our second initiative is the Mayor's Day of Concern for Hunger. This is the sixth year that we've done that, and the Hunger Coalition has taken that project on this year, and we appreciate everybody's support to make that happen. Again, one in five in our population are struggling with hunger insecurity. The food gathered is going to be shared with seven agencies , Denton Friends of the Family, Denton County MHMR, First Refuge Ministries Food Pantry, Our Daily Bread Soup Kitchen, The Salvation Army, Vision Ministries, and the Denton Community Food Center. And just real quick, why is hunger important? Many of the people that we see are the working poor and the underemployed, not so much unemployed, but the underemploy ed, people struggling to make a living wage. Food is kind of the lowest common denominator in our society. Adults that are hungry are not productive in our workforce. Children that are hungry in school don't do well and learn in school. So we're here to try to address some of those issues. We thank Mayor Watts for coming, and some of you may have seen the video on DTV. He came and did some heavy lifting with us the other day and helped unload one of the trucks, and we appreciate the community's support. Thank you very much. Thank you for all you do. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. And if you guys can donate, donate food and volunteer, please. Thank you. Hey, Tom, will you take money also? Absolutely. Who, how would they, who would they write the check to? That's a good question. Well, send it to us. One of the things I learned in a drive we had recently is that for every dollar that you give, they can spend, they can buy five to seven dollars worth of food. That's a great deal. I'm going to do one on bicycle month in Denton. So those that are involved in bicycle month, please come down. A healthy group with strong calves and helmets. And if you would introduce yourselves, please, and tell us who you're with. Hi, Dalton. I'm Julie Anderson. I'm the bike and pedestrian coordinator for the city of Denton. We're very excited about this. It's our third bike month. We've done this. Please join us on Sunday for our Cyclodea, our first Open Streets event. It'll be down here on McKinney Street. Come out, have fun, have a good time biking or walking. And yeah, here's everybody else. This is our Denton biking community. Hi, my name is Sonia Vasquez. I'm Michael Hammond. Clay Thurmond. Susie Townsend. And I'm Garrett Rimmor. Glad to have all of you here. I'm going to be there Sunday also. And because I'm also a member of Keep Denton Beautiful, I will not be wearing my Lycra bike shorts. So here is a proclamation from the mayor of the city of Denton. Greetings. Whereas for more than a century, the bicycle has been a utilitarian, not a unitarian, a utilitarian, economical and environmentally sound and effective means of personal transportation, recreation and fitness. And whereas the city of Denton, Texas encourages the use of bicycles as a means of transportation. And whereas the city of Denton, Texas recognizes people on bikes as a legitimate roadway user and therefore entitled they are entitled to legal and responsible use of all public roadway facilities in Denton, except highways constructed to interstate standards. And whereas the city of Denton, Texas encourages the increased use of bicycling, benefiting all citizens of Dent on by improving air quality, reducing traffic congestion and noise, decreasing the use of independence on finite energy sources and fostering exercise. And whereas the city of Denton, Texas recognizes the use of bicycles as a viable mode of transportation, endeavors to promote safe and responsible bicycling, the education of bicyclists and motorists as to the proper and safe operation of bicycles is important to ensure the safety and comfort of all users. And whereas the League of American Bicyclists, Bike Texas, Local Bike Shops and Independent Cyclists throughout our community are promoting greater public awareness of bicycle operation and safety education in an effort to reduce accidents, injuries and fatalities. Now therefore our Mayor Chris Watts does hereby declare and proclaim the month of May 2017 as Bicycle Month in Denton, Texas and encourages all citizens to ride their bicycles to work or to the store or to the park or just around the neighborhood. And with friends and family to promote the personal and societal benefits achieved from bicycling. Signed by our Mayor. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. [ Applause ] >> Thank you guys for coming. Not that there would be anything wrong with a Unitarian riding a bicycle. Speaking of. >> Speaking of. >> Sorry, you're going to say. >> Well, I get to do two tonight because there were two pro clamations that are very dear to my heart and the next one is as well. So I'm going to be reading the one for the Denton Children 's Mental Health Awareness Day. So those who are here, please come on down. Hi. I really like these people. Okay. So you want to go ahead and introduce yourselves. Absolutely. I'm Alex Reed with United Way of Denton County here representing the Denton County Behavioral Health Leadership Team promoting awareness of total children's health. Unfortunately, kiddos in our community are three times as likely to be bullied. If they have a mental health need, we've got about 7,000 kiddos with a diagnosable mental health need within our school system right now. So just promoting awareness of total children's health and access to resources in our community. >> And I'm Laura Pruitts. I'm the co-chair of the Child and Family Work Group for the Behavioral Leadership Team here in Denton. >> I'm Courtney Cross with the United Way of Denton County. >> And I'm Tina Peggs with Denton County MHMR. >> I'm going to go ahead and read the proclamation by the mayor of the city of Denton to all whom these presents shall come. Greetings, whereas in addressing the complex mental health needs of children, youth, and families today is fundamental to the future of Denton. And whereas the need for comprehensive coordinated mental health services for children, youth, and families has placed upon our community a critical responsibility. And whereas only 50% of Denton County children and adolescents receive needed mental health treatment. And whereas it is appropriate that a day shall be set apart each year for the direction of our thoughts toward our children's mental health and well-being. And whereas the Denton County Behavioral Health Leadership Team, Denton County MHMR Center, United Way of Denton County, and the Wellness Alliance for Total Children's Health of Denton County led by Cook Children's, Cook's Children's through their prevention-based approaches to serving children and adolescents are effectively addressing the mental health needs of children, youth, and families in our community. Now, therefore, I, Keely Briggs, on behalf of Mayor Chris Watts of the city of Denton, Texas, do hereby proclaim Tuesday, May 2nd, 2017 as Denton Children's Mental Health Awareness Day in the city of Denton. And I urge all citizens to support the efforts to care for prosperity of Denton's children in our community for this and future generations. Thank you. This Saturday, we actually have a Children's Mental Health Awareness event occurring at the Denton Public Safety Training Center from 11 to 2 a.m. where we will feature artwork from children from the My Feelings Are a Work of Art contest, as well as have some kid-friendly activities. So you guys should come out. We are launching our OK to Say campaign, which is a campaign that talks about how it's OK to say I have a broken arm. It should be OK to say that I have anxiety or that I have autism. And so we'll have that event this Saturday. And we'd love to see you guys there. So for those people who are here for National Day of Prayer , would you come down, please? And I'll add that this is the 66th year for National Day of Prayer. That is remarkable. Emphasis on national. So if you would introduce yourselves, please. I'm Dorothy Smith and I coordinate the National Day of Prayer. This is my ninth year. And we're excited about a really great event this year. We're joining our hearts in prayer with probably half a million people across the United States. Forty three plus thousand events are taking place. And so it's going to be the fourth. It's going to be day after tomorrow on Thursday. We start with pre-event music at 1115, live music. And then we will have the main program from noon to 1. And we've got a full program that I think will leave you really inspired and encouraged. My name is Carolyn Miller. I'm Kay Treach. I'm John Smith and I help when I need to. He's my husband of 54 years and he's my side, really my right hand man. Amen to that. Proclamation by the mayor of the city of Denton. Greetings. Whereas the National Day of Prayer was first declared in 17 75 when the Continental Congress appealed to the colonies to pray for wisdom in forming this nation. And on May 5th, 1988, President Ronald Reagan set forth the first Thursday of May of each year as a National Day of Prayer. And whereas throughout the history of this great nation, many citizens and leaders have and do rely on the power of prayer and their faith in God. And whereas there will be a citywide gathering on May 4th at Courthouse on the Square at noon, at which time people come together to pray for the seven centers of influence. Government leaders on all levels. Our military. The media. The business community. Education. Churches and families. Now, therefore, Chris Watts, mayor of the city of Denton and Kathleen Wasney, city council member. Do hereby declare and proclaim May 4th, 2017 as National Day of Prayer in the city of Denton and encourage all citizens together on May 4th, 2017 to pray for our nation. Thank you. Thank you. And the weather will hold on Thursday. Motorcycle Safety and Awareness Month. Does anybody here for that? No one at all. Okay. Well, I'm happy to do the proclamation, especially since my husband is a motorcycle commuter. So it's important to me. Proclamation by the mayor of the city of Denton, Texas, to all whom these presents shall come. Greetings. Whereas today's society is finding more citizens involved in motorcycling on the roads of our country and whereas motorcyclists are roughly unprotected and therefore more prone to injury or death in a crash than other vehicle drivers. And whereas campaigns have helped inform riders and motor cyclists alike on motorcycle safety issues to reduce motorcycle related risks, injuries and most of all fat alities through a comprehensive approach to motorcycle safety. And whereas it is the responsibility of all who put themselves behind the wheel to become aware of motorcycl ists regarding them with the same respect as any other vehicle traveling the highways of this country. And it is the responsibility of riders and motor motorists alike to obey all traffic safety laws and safety rules. And whereas urging all citizens of our community to become aware of the inherent danger involved in operating a motorcycle and for writers and motorcyclists alike to give each other the mutual respect they deserve. Now therefore, Chris Watts mayor of the city of Denton, Texas, does hereby proclaim May 2017 as Motorcycle Safety and Awareness Month in the city of Denton and urges all citizens to do their part to increase safety and awareness in our community. Oops, sorry. All right, there's only one. Can you hear me. There's only one more hour of proclamation so just sit tight everybody. Is anybody here for National Small Business Week. Come on up here. Now I own a few small businesses so everybody who's coming down here knows owning a small business or being involved with one is not just a job it's a lifestyle is that right so. Alright, so we'll go down. There's a bunch of them. Alright. This is great. Yeah. You guys know you have to stay for the whole meeting right. Okay. All right, we'll start down here sir if you could tell your name maybe what you're involved with. My name is Brad Bont and I'm the director of the North Central Texas Small Business Development Center. And today, I have a two advisors and I'll let them introduce themselves a little bit later but first I just wanted to say earlier my new friends from TRCA gave me a Superman pen . That's the coolest pin I've ever seen but I wanted to say the small business owners are the real Superman, and we appreciate all that you do for our country, and we were here to honor you today. Hi I'm Christina Davis I'm with economic development, and part of what we're doing this week is to celebrate National Small Business Week by showing our small businesses that we support you. And in one way we're doing that is by having a spotlight on success as some of our longtime businesses here in Denton we brought a few with us tonight. And then also we're going to have a workshop for small businesses if you're interested in gaining a little more energy and finding out some new ways to run your business or perhaps you need a little help from our good friends at the SBA. We hope you join us on Friday. It's a free workshop to sign up and you can find all the information you need on our Facebook page shop small no shop in Texas. Thank you. Well good evening I'm Damon Ward with business there we're located at the Denton Enterprise Airport. I'm john honeycutt I'm with TRCA and then in Texas. I'm Dave Ferber with TRCA and Denton we are humbled to be among this group of folks and hope we can continue on past our 26 years. Thank you. My name is David Hardy I'm the chief executive officer of TRCA and none of you have ever heard of us because we're nationwide. But we're the secret telecommunications company technology company that's under a bridge down here in Denton and 90, 000 square foot building and we maintain NASA we maintain Fort Knox, and we've never been involved in Denton locally but that's all changing now that's why I gave you the Superman pen. So, we're very excited to be we've been doing this now for 20 plus years, but we're going to make a name for ourselves our own hometown and starts here, and we're grateful to be here. Hi guys, I'm Marshall Culpepper I'm the CEO of satellite software here in Denton called cubos. We are actually a startup so I actually really in all of everyone here who's been running successful businesses for so long. We've been running for about two and a half years we've hired about 10 full time software engineers here in the city of Denton. We care a lot about the city as well and we 're deeply involved with the startup community here. I'm virtual Connor and with the NCTC small business development center as a as a business advisor. Hi I'm Tracy Erby I'm also a business advisor with the small business development center and my office is here in Denton. Hi I'm Caroline booth I'm the director of economic development here with the city of Denton, and I just want to say how deeply honored I am to be up here with all of you small business folks who invest so much of yourselves in what you do every day, you make our community so strong and we appreciate all of you so much. I'm so happy that this year the council is officially recognizing national small business week, and I do encourage everyone to come to our free, what is absolutely going to be an amazing seminar on Friday that Christina talked about so please come and join us. Hi I'm Caroline it does sound like an X files episode you know the company helping out with NASA's technology is located under a bridge in Denton so anyway. All right so last one here and then we'll get going with our meeting. America's progress has been driven by pioneers who think big take risks and risks and work hard. And whereas from the storefront shops at anchor Main Street to the tech startups that keep America on the cutting edge, small businesses are the backbone of our economy, and the corner stones of our nation's promise and whereas small business owners and Main Street business have energy and passion for what they do. And whereas when they don't get a lot of sleep either sometimes. And whereas, let me see just lots of when we support small businesses jobs are created and local communities preserve their unique culture and whereas because this country's 28 million small businesses create nearly two out of three jobs in our economy, we cannot resolve ourselves to create jobs and spur economic growth in America, without discussing ways to support our entrepreneurs and whereas the President of the United States has proclaimed National Small Business Week every year since 1963 to highlight the programs and services available to entrepreneurs through the US Small Business Administration and other government agencies and whereas the city of Denton supports and joins in this national effort to help America small businesses do what they do best, grow their businesses, create jobs, and ensure that our communities remain as vibrant today as they are vibrant tomorrow as they are today. Now therefore I Chris Watts or Chris Watts mayor of the city of Denton Texas to hereby declare the pro and proclaim April 30 through May 6 2017 as National Small Business Week. So let's give it up for everybody and thank you for taking time out of your night. Thank you very much. Aviation. You had a tech company that supports NASA and then you had a satellite software company that's well curated group of folks. Thank you all and thank you all council members for sharing in the proclamations today. Item 3A review of procedures for addressing the City Council. The Denton City Council has adopted rules of procedure, including a code of conduct, which applies to citizens as well as council members. These rules were enacted to promote an orderly process and to preserve decorum. Here is a brief review of the rules that apply to citizens reports. Citizens will have four minutes to give a report. There will be an electronic beep when time has expired. If the remarks are not concluded by that time the citizen will be asked to stop speaking. If the citizen does not cease and a second request is made, the mayor will request to have the citizen removed from the council chambers. Citizens are asked to not approach the dais. If a citizen has papers or other materials to hand out to the council, please let the city secretary know and she will have a staff member distribute the materials to the council. The attorney general has ruled that council members may listen to citizens speak and may ask questions of citizens for clarification of the issue. Council members will not engage citizens in discussion of a topic because to do so could potentially be a violation of the Open Meetings Act. When speaking to the council, citizens are to direct all remarks and questions to the council as a whole and not to any individual member. Please refrain from making abusive, personal, impertinent, profane or slanderous remarks. Anyone who violates this rule will immediately be removed from the council chambers. Citizens' adherence to these rules will help make an effective presentation and will preserve the order and decorum of our proceedings. Copies of the rules of procedure are available from the city secretary. Great. We have no scheduled citizen reports for item B, but item C, we have two cards for the additional citizen report . The first up is Mr. Willie Hutspeth. Mayor Pro Tem and other city council members, my name is Willie Hutspeth. I live at 623 Newton. The mayor approached me in the work session, saying that I should stay on topic. And let me just tell you why I get off topic. Because then at the conclusion of that, I'm then going to issue you and my son, if he gets elected, a statement. When you treat people the way this city council, not this city council, councils in the past has treated us, then you get people who have to do what they have to do to be heard. We're not going to be silenced by your switching rules and doing things differently and telling us one thing here and then do something else. We have the right to speak. We have to do it correctly. I know and I'm trying to do that. But I'm just frustrated in these city council people over the years doing me the way they've done me. In 1971, it began. I had a hundred year old tree when I was living on Bonnie Bray. It was in the easement. They could have easily gone around it, but they cut it down . They told me they had to. Then I found out later that they didn't have to. A few years after that, I had seven 100 year old plus pecan trees in my backyard. They cut them down and said they had to. I don't understand how you can be a city as large as you are and not have African-Americans firemen in the history. You only had two. It frustrates me because for one thing, you won't tell me straight. You won't say we're not going to hire them. We don't like them. We wish they would go away. Just tell me straight. Don't give me misinformation. My son, who is running for office, is confused because, well, really smart. He told me, now, dad, you can't just keep going down there talking about stuff all the time. You got to just let some things go. Well, I don't know how to do that. So let me tell you this. After the mayor talked to me today , he said you get off topic. Now, this is what I did plan to do based on him saying that . There are certain things that I do here that will get Brandon the authority to come and remove me from this chamber. I'm prepared to do that, not be disrespectful. If you tell me to be quiet and I'm talking about something that I want to talk about and I have my four minutes, then I'm going to be carried out of here. No, I won't be carried. He'll say come on and I'll go because I've been arrested by him before, and I don't want that to happen again. I'm just kidding. Anyway, but I decided I'd listen to my son and the mayor, stay on topic. I'm going to try that tonight for a while. I have to say that the new city manager seems to get it. He is transparent. So far he's transparent. That's what I've been asking for all these years. Just tell us the way it really is and don't hide things. Don't lie to us. Seems to be doing that. So I guess I need to give him the benefit of the doubt and not be such a person who just keeps saying stuff that he shouldn't say. So I'm going to try it and if it doesn't happen, then... [bell rings] Brandon, I'll see you. Thank you, Mr. Hutspeth. Next up is Kim McKibbin. Please state your name and address. My name is Kim McKibbin. I own the building and business at 1306 West Hickory here in Denton. I have three things I'd really like to address tonight very quickly. Number one, I want to say thank you to you people. This job that you do is pretty amazing. I sometimes don't know how some of you guys and the folks that are on planning and zoning actually sleep and have other jobs and families. So I truly do appreciate the work that you do and I'm looking very forward to working with our new city manager on some things. It's very interesting to me that this is a celebration of small businesses because it is my small business that brings me here before you tonight and started bringing me here three years ago almost at this point. There are changes happening in the Fry Street overlay district downtown on... downtown in the Fry Street overlay district that directly will impact my business if they go through. We found out, I guess, last Thursday that there were some proposals changed by the city and by the university that would change our 50 cents an hour parking to $3 an hour parking and that would remove all parking from the south side of West Hickory Street. That's 22 parking spaces that my business depends upon. We met with a gentleman from the university who said, and being we, the Fry Street Merchants Association. So there were like 15 of us there meeting with him and they ... and he was willing to work with us to meet some kind of an agreeable end. Basically, I would like to see and so would some of my other associates the same benefits given to the Fry Street merchants that are given to the merchants on the square. We'd like to have two hour free parking, you know, 8 to 5, Monday through Friday. We are very much opposed to being charged $3 an hour with electronic meters. A lot of my patrons don't have cell phones, much less something that they have to download an app to pay a parking meter with. So those things are there. We were in a meeting yesterday and this thing started to just move very quickly. It was as if it was a done deal and at some point the traffic commission or whatever they're called realized that the thing being presented had not been fully vetted. That the people that would be involved, the stakeholders and the business owners in the area had not had truly any conversation with the city or with the university until last Thursday. So what I'm asking you is that there seems to be a rush to get this done. Please, if this comes before you in any way, please ask questions of those of us down in the Fry Street area. We are very much trying to be involved and to maintain our businesses. The other thing I'd like to speak about very quickly is the Fry Street overlay. On December 12th of last year in a council meeting a decision was delayed for six months related to a developer that wants to scrap the Fry Street overlay district for the Vortmans building. This is six months. I think I can count that much. I have not heard back from them. I have not heard from the property owners at Vortmans. But as we heard in the presentation today and the work sessions about some of the plans that are coming up, I would please encourage you not to allow an out-of-town developer to come in and change the ordinances that were set in place years ago to assure that the interface between the university and the Fry Street businesses is in place and works for everyone. We have potential to do something really good down there. That's why I bought a building. That's why I'm maintaining a business. I'd really like to see something good happen. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. All right. Next item of business is consent agenda. And just for everybody's reminder, during the work session we went through some of these. A few items were pulled. So just for everyone's attention, item A has been pulled and taken off the agenda completely. Item C, D, E, no, I'm sorry, C, E, F, and H have been pulled for items of individual consideration. Councilmember Hawkins. I move approval. Thank you. Councilmember Gregory. Second. We have a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda minus A. C, E, F, and H. Is that your motion? Yes. Thank you. Please vote on the board. That passes unanimously. Now we will take each of the pulled items off for individual consideration. So we'll start with item C. Consider adoption of an ordinance accepting competitive proposals and awarding a public works contract for the construction of the 9/11 Firefighters Memorial Bell Tower project for the city of Denton. Providing for the expenditure of funds thereof and providing an effective date, the Public Art Committee recommends approval of the design concept 8-0. Mr. City Manager, do we have a presentation for this? We just wanted to provide you a little background on the 9/ 11 Firefighter Memorial. In the 2014 bond election, voters approved $325,000 for public art related to public facilities for police and fire departments. In March of 2016, council approved the concept of the 9/11 Firefighters Memorial Bell Tower. Kirkpatrick Architects Architectural Studio was selected to design the project. And this March of 2017, we prepared an RFP, sent it out to 1,141 prospective suppliers. We received four proposals back based on final ranking and scoring by the committee. Lings Construction from Denton was selected. And we've included in the backup but have it up here as well a copy of the bid tabulations from the four bids we did receive. Thank you very much. Any questions of staff? We do have, I think, one card. I'm going to ask you, Mr. Hudspeth, you have put in cards for 4E, F, H, and G. G is not an item, but I'm wondering if you meant for this one 4C. Okay. Come on down. I'm a pro or mayor pro tem council member. My name is Willie Hudspeth. I live at 623 Newton. I'm opposed for anything being presented for the fire department at this time. Personally, I have a problem with it. I constantly ask, I ask you every meeting almost now here lately, why aren't there firemen of color? What is the problem? Now, none of you have answered my question. And most of the time you do as you're doing now, see, right here. That. That's what you do. That, when I mention it. It's a problem to me. I want to know why African Americans can't be firefighters here in this city. Let me reiterate my concern. In the history of Denton, firefighters organization, here, the longest we've had them, there have been two. Still ask the question, why? Thank you. Councilmember Gregory. Thank you, mayor. Move approval of 4C. Councilmember Hawkins. Second. Okay. We have a motion to second. Please vote on the board. That item passes unanimously. Moving on to agenda item 4E. Consider adoption of an ordinance accepting competitive proposals and awarding a five-year contract for tennis instructor services for the city of Denton parks department , providing for the expenditure of funds thereof and providing an effective date. That item passes unanimously. I believe we have a staff presentation for this. Good evening, mayor pro tem and councilmembers. My name is Delee Williams with the parks and recreation department. I would like to give you some background. Prior to 2009, tennis instruction was primarily offered by city staff. In June of 2009, gray event management -- Excuse me. Just for the sake of clarity, are you able to make that full screen? Let's go. Just a little button down to the right-hand side down there in that orange bar down there. How do I do it? Right. Over to the left. Over to the left. Left. No. That -- it's a little icon beside that volume bar. This one? Oh, thank you. Okay, sorry. That's all right. Just make sure it's clear for everyone to see. Thank you so much. Okay. So some background on the tennis contract. So prior to 2009, tennis instruction was primarily provided by city staff. In June of 2009, gray event management was awarded their initial contract. The initial contract was valid for one year with two one- year extensions. In 2012, an RFP went out for a three-year extension. In 2012, an RFP went out for a three-year extension. In 2012, an RFP went out for a three-year extension. In 2012, an RFP went out for a three-year extension. In 2012, an RFP went out for a three-year extension. In 2012, an RFP went out for a three-year extension. In 2012, an RFP went out for a three-year extension. In 2012, an RFP went out for a three-year extension. In 2012, an RFP went out for a three-year extension. In 2012, an RFP went out for a three-year extension. In 2012, an RFP went out for a three-year extension. In 2012, an RFP went out for a three-year extension. 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