Mar 28, 2017 City Council on 2017-03-28 2:00 PM

All right good afternoon everyone we wanted to open this meeting of the Denton City Council on Tuesday March 28th 2017 we do have a quorum. Councilmember Gary is absent today. We'll move on with our work session reports agenda item 1a which is received report hold discussion give staff direction regarding a fourth amendment to an economic development rate development program grant agreement with Alliance Hillview LP for the razor ranch development. Thank You mayor and good afternoon council members. My objective today is to present red developments request for a fourth amendment to its economic development agreement for the razor ranch development. Red development requests a total extension of six months to meet the 300,000 square feet of commercial and retail space in the razor ranch town center that's needed to initiate its incentive. The extension will allow time for it to finish the city's processes for its projects that are currently in progress and to begin construction on those projects. Their estimated construction duration is 11 to 12 months. Somebody's just cracking up over here I didn't realize this was so entertaining. Let's focus. All right I'm sorry. To the details of the request more than 227,000 square feet of the 300,000 square foot threshold for retail and commercial space either has a certificate of occupancy or is currently under construction. That number reaches 75% of the 300,000 square foot threshold. More than 81,000 square feet were approved by the Planning and Zoning Commission in January 2017. That includes Elmo Draf thouse which currently is on second revisions to its plans and those revisions were submitted on March 9th. Rooms to Go is on its fourth revision and that fourth revision was submitted on March 3rd. So again those are the two projects that are currently in the city's process that account for over 81,000 square feet which will put the development over the 300,000 square foot threshold. Specifics of the requested Fourth Amendment. It would provide for an immediate deadline extension from January 1 of 2018 to April 1 2018 so that's three months and then if at least 270,000 square feet or 90% of the 300,000 square foot threshold have either received a certificate of occupancy or have a certified foundation by that April 1 date then we can extend that date to July 1 2018 so that's the second set of three months for a total of six months. The second set of three months would have to be granted after demonstrated performance of achieving 90% of the threshold. The other significant change to the agreement would be to memorialize the assignment of Razor Ranch Marketplace which is the north side or phase one of the development and assign the rights title interests and obligations to Razor Ranch 3 80 Associates. Because of the progress that's been demonstrated towards meeting the total threshold 75% as I stated we think that this is a reasonable and achievable request for amendment on behalf of Red Development. The Economic Development Partnership Board heard this item earlier in the month and they recommend approval of it 7-0. The other thing that's important to point out at this time is that our staff recommendation for approval does come with the stipulation that no further amendment requests related to either deadline extensions or threshold changes be considered by the city after this particular consideration. So to reiterate the key points the incentives that are in question are designed to reimburse Red Development for the public infrastructure portions of this total development. They're requesting a six month deadline extension and performance must be verified for them to receive the full six months. 75% of their 300,000 square foot threshold has already been met and the square footage of the projects that are currently in the city's development processes will exceed this threshold . ADP board and staff recommend approval of this request and I am seeking your direction and comment regarding this request. Councilmember Gregory. Thank you Mayor. When I first saw this coming my reaction was negative towards it and the reason why is because my understanding was that this would just delay the start of the reimbursements. I think some of our agreements are set up like that that that there's not a drop dead date if it's all or nothing but that it in some cases when the clock starts then then they may or may not be receiving the money and it might be later but I've come to understand that that my understanding is incorrect. Could you explain what the impact is of if if we did not do this amendment and they did not hit the 300,000 square foot goal of CEOs by the designated time what would happen to the it's a 380 agreement right? Yes sir. What would happen to that 380 agreement for the Southside? So the simple way to answer that question is to say that that as it stands right now this is an all-or-nothing agreement. If the 300,000 square foot threshold is not met there will be no incentives received to reimburse for their public infrastructure costs on the Southside. Okay that that that causes me pause and makes me think I may need to go to the different way than what I was originally planning to vote on this because I thought it would just delay by one year the reimbursements but it but it ends the whole thing. Yes. The other question is why would why does the city staff recommend that there be no more amendments or no more extensions? Well this is a fourth amendment request and this has been a big complicated project. There's been significant progress made on it and we feel that this that this is going to be a situation where it's important for them to perform under this amendment request should it be approved by the council and it will allow them to complete what they 've got in the process and then they should be able to move forward without any further amendments because they've demonstrated progress they'll initiate their incentive and the project can can go on from there. Okay thank you. Any other questions? All right yes Mayor Pro Tem. So just to clarify what the the goal is 300,000 square foot is that having obtained certificate of occup ancy is that what the current agreement is getting to that threshold? The current the current agreement specifies that everything but the first floor of the convention center and I'm sorry the convention center and the first floor of the hotel development must have a certificate of occupancy that one does not have to have one. Does that answer your question? Yes so all of these other projects you're talking about in the current in the current agreement would the trigger point is the certificate of occupancy in terms of meeting the threshold. Or a certified foundation a foundation that's been poured and checked off on by the building official. That's it's either that Ford Foundation certified as good to go or a certificate of occupancy. Okay so go back to your I think it's your second slide then I had a question. Okay so that first bullet point extension will allow time to finish city processes for projects currently in progress. My first read of that was that the city's delaying this to some degree like city processes are part of the problem. No that's not the intention. There are just two of them that are well into the process have been approved by PNZ and are with planning for review and revision. Gotcha okay thank you. Councilmember Hawkins. Well and just while we're talking about this and work session just to work through the whole thing public infrastructure they possibly would not need this 380 agreement if the city were in a position or willing to go ahead and put all this in and then go try to court some sort of developer that sort of thing. This is not an incentive this is just to pay them back for the public infrastructure which is very very expensive especially in a project like this. Yes that's correct. Okay thank you. Yes Councilmember. I want to make sure I'm not. Yeah I didn't see any other hands. Okay one other thing that has always been a concern from the start of the Razor Ranch project was the concern that that project might I think determine the retail industry is cannibalize or attract major retailers from other locations and and I know that we've all been concerned about for example the anchor stores at Golden Triangle Mall anchor being the big ones like like M acy's and Dillard's and Sears and JCPenney and that that if they were to reloc ate to Razor Ranch how does that work in terms of the reimbursement agreement the 380 agreement or meeting the square footage status? So the first part of the question any incentive payment that's made out of sales tax will exclude any of the anchor stores that are specifically at Golden Triangle Mall. Okay. In terms of something counting toward the square footage there was no stipulation that that any of the anchor stores would or wouldn't count against square footage but since what's already in process is two things that are not anchor stores I think that's a little bit of a side issue but it's a good question. That wasn't specified except to say in terms of carving it out. It's just the square footage threshold is a loop point because it really doesn't involve them. Correct. I think this falls under the category you're either penny wise or pound foolish and for the city to not support this project at this point in time I think would be not wise. It behooves the city to see a completion of this project to see a successful project to see it continue to grow and thrive. It's a huge project. Timing is hard sometimes with projects this big. It's hard and to come in at an exact date sometimes is risk. I think they're trying to also hedge their bets knowing that this gives them just a little more time to not just get it done but get it done right to get it done well and then bring it to fruition of what we all planned when we looked at this from the get-go. So I certainly do support the extension and I thank staff for working hard on it. Thank you. Yes Mayor Proctor. Was there I guess I was expecting to see as part of this presentation or in the back of some sort of where we at comprehensively where we at with the with the project was there going to be a presentation from and then we have some representatives here to show us the present state of things the future plans maybe any other ideas for what this is shaping out to be beyond these two announced new projects as part of this? That's obviously not part of my presentation today. We do have two representatives from Red Development here and I'm sure that they would be happy to answer any questions about that. I know that they don't have a presentation put together either. I'm sure they would be happy to provide us with some information though if you would like for Scott Wagner of Red Development to come up to the podium that's sure well to you guys. I want to get Councilmember R iggs comments first and then I have some comments. Yes. I just wanted to comment that I am not in favor of the Fourth Amendment extension. And I can respect that I think that it comes down to for me this is just getting them over the finish line I mean I didn't anticipate if Councilmember Gary's here that she'd probably share your same sentiment. The city first and foremost the city has we've got a 11-story 70,000 square foot convention center that's going to be completed at the end of this year over there and one of the major draws to that space in that location and one of the things that we asked Red to do was work with them to maybe get it there and in the process of doing that you know they had to make certain business decisions in order to do that which were beneficial to all parties including the city. If this were coming for an extension to ask for additional time because they just don't have the players it 's a different ball game for me it's a totally different ball game. If it's an extension to say we've got the players we can't take the risk of let's just let's put it out there and I don't this is my own sense of this my own opinion I don't have this on basically on any facts but if I were in their shoes they've got to decide to spend five to ten million more dollars in infrastructure just to get these projects moving forget building the buildings they've got to put in the roads the sewer lines the water lines and that costs money and if they don't think they're going to be able to get that money reimbursed why in the world would they spend that money and if they thought that they weren't going to get any of the money reimbursed for any of the rest of the project why would I spend that money I would be very I think unwise to do that so this is a I mean to deny this extension as it stands it and remaining in all or nothing to me would probably come close to killing the project and with it being an overlay district that means whoever bought it would have to also abide by that particular overlay district so we have spent a lot of time you know I really like your analogy I agree do we all necessarily think we want to do this do we all hear the grumblings of that it's too much time it's too much you know they had enough time sure sure but I'll tell you I look at the north side and in the backup it said we've made five million dollars over the last four or five years that's excluding the amount of property taxes that we've had all right and I don't think very many of those stores are cann ibalized stores I certainly know Academy's not I doubt very seriously that Walmart's cannibalized itself they wouldn't put a store over there like that so from a financial perspective I sure would hate to think that for some kind of emotional or psychological reason we're going to hurt ourselves as a city and as a community by investing all of our time and energy in this and let's face it they took this project over at the greatest one of the greatest economic downturns since the Great Depression now I wasn't in the Great Depression so I don't know how bad it was it was obviously pretty pretty pretty bad so that speaks volumes to me so I support the project I think they've performed as they said they were they're going to perform and I certainly don't mind if they want to come and share whatever they can share about because this isn't about just these two spaces there are other things most likely in the works that we may not be aware of because of just proprietary information that could very easily just vanish because they know that they can't do it and now if the city wants to step up and pay the 30 million dollars or so in infrastructure costs that it's going to take to do a project like this let's do it I don't think anybody sitting at this table with me would raise their hand to support that so I am in support of this amendment and I'm in support of it being the last one because I agree that we've had enough time they've got it they're just needing it to get over the finish line they could not take the risk of coming down to the December of 2017 being 90% complete and come the 1st of January they don't have a CEO and 40 to 50 million dollars worth of infrastructure reimbursement payments vanish into thin air nobody worth their salt in business is going to make that decision so there's a lot of factors involved that would be a very grave economic decision I think to move in a different direction at this time maybe some other time maybe so but I've heard that the bookings out at the Convention Center are astronomical the pre bookings and I think that that whole area is going to be more successful than what we could have even imagined just as the north side has been I don't think would have imagined the north side to be as successful as it's been and I think it's helped everybody in this community and I will tell you with the pressure we're getting from the state legislature and you know depending on certain things in the future our budgets are going to be pretty thin and we need to make sure that we have all the opportunity we can to make revenue to help continue to maintain the quality of life in this community that we have that's my two cents worth it's more like a dollar so I apologize but I feel very strongly that this would be a very this would probably be one of the I mean I know several decisions that were made that in the past that really hurt this city growth wise and I think this would be one of them for the amount of what it's being asked for six months three anything but let me make sure I understand come April the first if they don't meet that threshold of 270,000 either in CEOs or certified foundation inspection which means they're starting construction they don't get the three months they don't get the second set of three and it's over I mean it is an all-or-nothing it it so I trust that if they're willing to accept that they know their business better than I do because that's something that is a risk as well so they obviously are in the in the process of getting these things approved and getting them in the construction phase that they feel comfortable that's really all they need so I'm in support of this just council want to hear more from read about ongoing things or it seems like we have a direction of not moving forward on this but it sounds like correct me if I'm wrong that the rest of us say let's move forward and maybe develop this and put it on an agenda for a vote but if you want to hear or if you want to just save that for the the public hearing or the item of individual consideration when it's on the agenda it's up to the council anybody have just a strong desire to hear no well I mean as you say this is a major economic development partnership on the city the convention center is staking its game on what's going on over there a lot of people in our community are interested in this as you alluded to some of the calls and things I just think it's worth as we 're having this conversation to get kind of put this in context a bit I tell you what then if you could limit it to yes yeah if we can limit it because I know when we do item for individual they will have first of all advanced notice right that they're going to present right because they I'm sure you know didn 't bring a presentation today but an item of individual consideration is in the auditorium with all of the the big screens and everything it's evening and people are tuned in so they can really see what's happening in this whole project and so maybe just do an abbreviated today five minutes at the most so we do have this item on your agenda for individual consideration next week okay as everybody's okay with going forward with that I think yes like keep it rolling if possible so Scott will come up and give us an abbreviated presentation and then have something lovely for us to look at next week well I appreciate abbreviated because I did not prepare a presentation but you've seen a lot of the presentations and the site plans let me start off first by thanking you all again yes it's been a long road been here seven years we are right at the brink we've performed very well I think 115 120 thousand square feet open the hotel Convention Center under construction those tenants are doing very well razor ranch marketplace is doing very well if you all recall we built that out in phases and it was very successful in response to the market doing the right buildings with the right tenants at the right time that's the way to deliver a project and that's what we're doing phase one is going very well we had three new openings last month out at razor ranch town center on the south side and the hotels making great progress they are scheduled for an October C of O and November opening and he is called us and asked us if there's any additional land for additional projects and which restaurants we have coming and whatnot so he's very excited with the business we do have the theater in the furniture store the next phase also has up to three restaurants another shops building and then a new one that we're hoping to have a contract signed soon so I can't mention names but a large format entertainment center 40, 000 square foot plus arcade billiards bowling and whatnot so that's something we've been chasing it fits very well with the mix it's down there next to the the convention center so there's a lot in play there's no shortage of things to work on last year alone we bought an additional 30 acres that takes time and money from our joint venture land partner but we bought those that land to facilitate the hotel and Convention Center project plus it 's where the rooms to go is going that includes additional infrastructure so we're actually building larger land area so it's been a busy year we closed on that property in April got it the loan in place in May and everybody's crank ing along we're building the infrastructure right now for the hotel and Convention Center I can't release any other names of those tenants because they 're not public not into the city but the two larger projects that we are working through we been trying to get those going in fourth smittle and third smittle we had to plat new property we had to do new public infrastructure that takes time and it's not a not a delay by any means by the city process it is a long process but we know that process we built quite a bit of projects out here but we're making it way through the plat got recorded yesterday for the furniture store so that kicks off the next round we can now get our pre con meetings and our plans and our permits so it's just a little slower we 're very close we're very excited very bullish on the project it's outstanding the tenants that are there doing very well the theater and the furniture store take 11 to 12 months so they're the longer lead we can do a restaurant in four to five months so we'll see those site plans coming through here in the next few months few weeks for some of those additional users and that will be exciting as well so our goal is to have that phase if you will open in that spring of 18 and so it does include more than just those two stores six there's maybe as many as eight additional tenants including some restaurants and entertainment and some shops I will bring a presentation and a site plan you're trying to get us all on board with this let me ask some questions I appreciate that you know I keep reading just this morning as I was perusing through some news on my Twitter feed there's a there's a post on kind of the the difficulty in the retail market as I'm sure you kind of understand what in this project is the public's looking at it what become those confidence building anchors apart from like things like dilards and stuff like that that the retail markets looking at that we currently have that attract I mean is Alamo draft house one of those is the fact that we're building Convention Center out there one of those what are those things we can look at as a community and say this is rolling in the right direction sure and retail is hard there's probably not a lot of projects similar to this going up in the nation let alone Texas is one of the busier so you guys are you're insulated sometimes it's a very productive growth area in Texas but other communities are struggling even even more in the retail if you will retailers themselves are struggling to expand but what makes razor ranch and Denton a little different is it's gonna be a regional destination you know the trade area and the people that we're hoping to grab will come from crumb and Sanger and even Gainesville for that entertainment aspect it's really gonna be that experience opportunity to shop stay a night get a theater go to go to dinner have breakfast in the morning so it's it's a destination if you will and it's it's we call it super regional it might be a little grandiose but we expect to compete with Highland Village and legacy and Stonebriar the people who were in those communities or people here who travel to those communities we expect those to come to Denton and raise a ranch and so we have a lot of great new to market uses if you think you'll Sam's Club Coles Academy Booth Barn Guitar Center Wynn Co in and out you know those are all new not every tenants gonna be new but as far as the mix of uses the reason the uses will work well here is that they're available so if you want to come and stay a night at a full service hotel you have something to do while you're there before after during so it's really exciting it's really gonna be about putting that destination together okay all right any other comments questions thanks Scott appreciate you all right Caroline you have anything else not unless you have anything else for me any other questions for staff fantastic thanks thank you we'll move on to work session item 1b receive report hold discussion give staff direction regarding proposals received for city of Denton employee health clinic and operation management services afternoon mayor and council may pull us off a little quick Oh scary or that's never good no it's not good afternoon thank you for your time my name is Scott Payne I'm the risk manager for the city the item before you today was that a request after the February the 21st council meeting where we had this item as an individual item for consideration questions were raised and it was tabled to come back here for a work session item today so I have a presentation to maybe give you a little more information about the employee health center the evaluation process and then certainly be available for any questions you guys might have about that so just quick kind of recap on where we are our self-funded health plan began in January the 1st of 2008 as we talked about at the 21st meeting self funding allows us during good claims years to retain that savings in the form of reserves and then during bad claim years that allows us to between our stop loss and those reserves to kind of weather those difficult years I'll have to make significant plan changes since we've been self-funded we've been able to build reserves of almost five million dollars as at the end of 2016 so well might directly tied to us being self-funded it is certainly a very important component of our overall health and wellness strategy that's our employee health center our clinic we opened it in December of 2011 it is open and available to all of our employees our retirees and their respective dependents who recovered on our health but a self-funded health plan it's essentially a family practice model so those things that your primary care physician could do for you bumps bruises strains sprains colds flus those types of things and then certainly the preventative phases wellness exams and then also helping our patient base manage their chronic health conditions so high blood pressure diabetes high cholesterol those types of things are be able to be managed there at the clinic as well our clinic is currently located in the formerly the didn't original medical center now medical city didn't professional building we're on the third floor there and care here has been our partner since we opened it actually before we opened it they were the ones who are helping us come up with the necessary medical supplies helping us assemble our staff all those pieces of it to get ready for that December 11th 2011 opening so just real quick give you guys a little insight into what the clinic looks like again so it's the third for their professional building the first slide there on the left is the clinic waiting area that's where they come to wait briefly before they're seen back by the providers the second slide here is the medical assistance area and where they check in I felt unnecessary paperwork to be seen by the providers just a couple other slides will eat our lab drawer area we have two lab drawer areas kind of a primary and secondary and then one of our four exam rooms that are outfitted to be available for our employees on our patient base so just a little brief glimpse into what the clinic looks like I know one of the questions that came up in our presentation on the 21st was who are our providers we currently have three providers the first one is dr. Amina Hashmi dr. H as we effectively call her she's both us since the beginning she was one of our first providers in the state with us throughout this entire time period she got her degree from Midwestern University in Chicago and did her residency at Parkland Hospital here in the Dallas Fort Worth area next up is Kim Gatlin she's one of our family nurse practitioners she started with us part-time in 2014 and then went full-time with us in 2015 she's been in Denton since 2013 got her training at Stephen F Austin and University of Texas at Tyler so we've been very glad to have have Kim there she 's pretty much our primary provider that sees the majority of our patients and the last but not least we have Julie Brinzo Julie's a family nurse practitioner as well training at Texas Tech University Masters in Science from Texas Women's University she is also a instructor at Texas Women's University in their family nurse practitioner program and so we're very pleased and fortunate and happy to have her as part of our team as well along with the providers we have a clinic support staff Erica Valdez and Daisy Zambrano are our medical assistants Erica also has been in with us since we opened in 2011 both of them are bilingual and just to the sweetest people you ever meet and then Mary Ponce is our registered nurse and our health coach this is a fairly new addition to the clinic staff so that's kind of what it looks like and who they are we touch these statistics a little bit when we were in front of you on the 21st but just as kind of reminder since the clinic opened in 2011 we provide about 35,000 patient visits to our patient base since 2012 the both the number of available appointments and the utilization of those appointments has continued to increase we're running about a 90% utilization rate which still is a good number one of the slides we added since that point in time was just to give you guys about an idea about the number of people who are accessing the clinic so that line where it talks about unique patients accessing that's about 1,540 patients so if one of our employees their spouse and one of their dependent children access the clinic that would be three unique patients and then out of that number all over a thousand of our employees access the clinic in 2015 so roughly 70% of our employees were at the clinic at least one time during the year the thing we talked about when we were for the 21st was just kind of a way of measuring success so what utilization is one of those the other one is to look at the cost of accessing care at our clinic versus the cost of accessing care through our health plan and consistently since we've been open we 've been able to do it cheaper than we can access the care through UnitedHealth care through their network in 2015 it was about $73 cheaper than what it costs to go to the health plan so what we've looking at is that cost diversion savings so every time we can take an office visit and have it go to the clinic versus going to a provider within UnitedHealthcare we're saving about $73 and so calculate over the number of employees or sorry visits we have it's about six hundred twenty thousand dollars and we'll refer to as cost diversion savings question on that and I hope I can word the question where I can even understand it okay so when I see annual care diversion savings so let's say hypoth etically if all of these people had gone to an outside private physician and we'll just say that all of those visits combined that we've seen at the clinic were done privately and let's say that numbers five million dollars I don't know what it is but that's an easy number to deal with is what this saying to me because when you we've got the cost of the clinic all right all the costs associated with her staff space and all that so this six hundred and twenty eight thousand dollars is saying let's say of that five means too much let 's say three million or whatever what do you think it'd be if what's the what's the total if all these people had gone out to private care in 2015 what that total cost of cost the city any idea just ballpark without a bin well maybe I'm not explaining probably myself when we look at our average cost for a preventive health care visit right and family practice type visit on average in 2015 it was 13 6 hours and 54 cents if I went to dr. X within the health plan yes but if I did it the clinic looking because the clinic we've taken all those expenses you just talked about and we've turned that into kind of a fixed cost versus being a variable cost when I go out to my provider I'm not going to pretend to know all the different CPT codes that go to the different levels of office visits but on average it's $136 so basically all we're doing is taking that savings of that $70 and multiplying that out times the number of visits that went to our clinic to come up with that seven hundred and twenty eight thousand dollars so ideally it would be whatever that number was backing up the the eight thousand six hundred fifty visits times $136 and 54 cents basically was what it would have cost us have they gone to the indoor health network to access that care right and so then you would multiply that $72 savings per that so really the cost of the clinic all in versus the cost of sending it out then just going somewhere privately that cost difference whatever those numbers are we don't even have is six hundred twenty eight thousand dollars is what is what I'm hearing you say that by having the clinic because what I want to make sure is that that's the all that that's based upon the all-in cost because I know you have fixed costs right and you have variable costs so in other words whatever we're paying to run that clinic whether it be you know the office space the personnel the supplies insurance all of that right we get that number and then if all those people had gone somewhere else there's that number and what's the difference my understanding is that six hundred and twenty eight thousand dollars is that I just is that difference is that what I'm understanding yes sir okay the average cost we calculate that 63 91 for using the clinic is factoring in all those costs you talked about the staff the salaries the rent which is the dollar a year the medical supplies the office supplies all that and that's what our cost per visit was in 2015 right so yes sir and that's one component of the overall I guess cost evaluation of from a true number standpoint of what the clinic is doing for us and I have another side that kind of talks a little bit about more detail sure okay did you have questions here yes any over here got some air brakes so what does it cost the patient is it do that do the employees come and do they pay a copay or do they pay or is it free completely free anything that we do at the clinic is at no cost to our patient base so there's no copayments no exchange of money happens at the clinic okay thank you you know this is a fascinating chart I mean it really is because I was thinking well we we diverted so much more money in 2012 but then I looked oh well that's because the United Health Care visit in 2012 was $223 compared to 2013 when it was $131 and United Health Care every year changes sometimes it goes up sometimes it goes down but that's a drastic change between 2012 and 2013 for United Health Care just out of curiosity do you have any idea why there was such a drop that year to be honest Councilman I don't I mean this is data that we get from United Health Care and this was the first year that we had done that evaluation and so it could be that they included maybe some things that we weren't anticipating it also is going to be a lot about the mix of the visits that are going to like I mentioned before you know so we dr. Meshla can speak better than I can that there's a number of different levels of an office visit that can be done based on if it's a brand new patient where they're taking a history if it's a physical if they're doing minor surgical procedures you know there can be a very different in cost and so it could be that the mix of our visits in 2012 was a little bit different than it's been the last few years through United Health Care they were taking a higher level a higher cost visit then maybe what's been happening now but the cost per visit for our clinic has stayed relatively similar though over time it seems to have dropped some yes sir is that because we have found efficiencies or is that because they're simply more visits and so there 's a per person cost savings because of more visits yes sir it's both of those things I mean we were still having some infrastructure costs were being done in 2012 that helped bring the cost up and then also just the number of visits are going up and so that's going to help bring that cost down as well thank you I have a thought because the clinic opened in 2011 the visits in 2012 took longer because everybody was a new patient in that clinic so by the time you get to 2013 2014 2015 there's more of a rhythm because people actually have a chart to pull and all of that preliminary stuff and history is already taken it's done and possibly that had something to do with the higher startup maybe as far because I know you show a thousand and nine employees who 've utilized the clinic I think in 2015 yes sir how many employees does the city of didn't have you're roughly 1500 ish yes sir so do we know why the other I mean that's about a third don't do we have an idea of why that is or so that means we're paying for for the full price and I guess when they go to someone private you commented to councilmember Briggs that there's no copay with the clinic so when they go to someone private do they pay a copay under our plan or do we pay that copay for that how does that they would definitely pay a copay ment based on the level of service they were receiving we have a different copayment for a family practice versus a specialist okay got you so it would it would be purely anecdotal on my part as far as why sure you know we first opened the clinic there was some resistance some hesitancy about the city knowing too much about our employees and about their health that's one of the reasons why we decided to hire a company to manage the process for us there are some public entities in Texas who actually the providers are employees of that public entity Garland as an example Mesquite is an example so we didn't do that because of that fear that that if an employee went to the clinic then suddenly their supervisor and risk management HR didn't know about their their business their health and what's going on which is not the case at all so some people even if we paid them money to go there when they showed up probably wouldn't go there for that reason other people have a relationship with their family doctor and that's 162 we never wanted to take that away from them if they already had that relationship and then we just wanted to be an option for them if they needed it I mean ultimately we want all of our employees to have a relationship with a primary care physician whether it's our clinic or somewhere else that's the main goal but we knew through studies and through looking at information the law of our employees didn't they were going to the emergency room or to one of the urgent care facilities as their primary care physician and so this is one as an attempt for us to fill that gap for those folks with a clinic okay councilmember Gregory do you have one oh I'm sure some people just don't go to the doctor okay councilmember August and this clinic is a private clinic for the city employees and family there you cannot be an outside person and come to the clinic correct it is just for our employees the dependents and the retirees to access and what are the hours of the clinic it just depends on the day of the week but typically from 6 a.m. to around 4 or 5 in the afternoon it just depends on the day and the providers we have on staff Monday through Friday yes sir okay thank you yes and I do know that other cities across Texas and the country are going to this model because it is a cost-saving model because to get your employees into the rhythm of going to see a doctor on a regular basis ultimately brings down health care costs so thank you for jumping on this in 2011 and implementing this and back to the question it's just moms have a favorite pediatrician people have a doctor they've known for a long time I don't think it has any reflection on our clinic it could also be a geographic decision that if an employee lives way north that it's just far to get down at the end of the day between four and five to try to get to the hospital there on 35e so it could be one of a hundred different reasons but I 'm just happy the city made this decision and thank you for that couple I think you said you have a slide that shows the cost of the clinic the total cost of running the clinic I can so we give you that figure right now it's about eight hundred and fifty or sixty thousand dollars per year we look at the salaries and the all in all in right and as far as on the appointments because I understand that it's sort of an electronic appointment type of arrangement where you can log in and but are there time slots where if people have a minor emergency or they're just really and they got to get in without being able to set an appointment a couple days in advance are there opportunities for them to do that as well as this pretty much you sign on get your appointment and that's that's what you that's when you come one of their driving factors and are adding the additional hours and bringing in Julie for example as another provider was to meet that need because we knew in certain times of the year cold and flu season for example we also have a push we have a deadline very gain their health risk assessment done by a certain time period so the two months leading up to that it was very hard to get an urgent care or acute care type appointment and so we've done things to try and alleviate that by adding more appointment hours we release a few visits we hold them until the end of the day before we release them open for the next day so if someone is trying to get a next day appointment they have those available to them so trying to come up with different ways of doing that and and truly if it's a existing patient we don't certainly advertise this but if they've got something pretty serious going on you know we will try and slip them in if we can again we don't want to treat walk-ins because that kind of delays our bills from being able to get their full 20 minutes and staying on schedule with the appointments but we'll make it happen if we need to you just did advertise it okay well that's good so there was a sense that there might have been a need there that was going somewhat unfulfilled and that that you're trying to employ additional staff and create more hours to where there is a little bit more availability for those kind of as you call them urgent care or acute care yes sir and then to your first question we is through an online portal to make your appointments but then we also have a call center that people can call they want to you to make their performance as well okay good councilmember Briggs so you mentioned it's about eight hundred and fifty thousand a year to run the clinic yes sir so we recently learned that it's about close to 20 million a year for health care costs is that included in that amount it is okay that's part of the overall health budget includes the operation of the clinic okay you know the questions at least on this particular part of the presentation yes you look puzzled well it does not involve the presentation I'm just wondering if there is a need to go into closed session to discuss any legal issues regarding this consideration I will leave that up to either the city attorney or councilman are you requesting that yes okay do you need it now or can we wait till the end of the presentation it could be between our work session items and our items for individual consideration okay so we can get to the works all right all right okay so taking the care diversion savings and rolling it forward looking at other cost saving measures if you're looking at a true dollar savings that come from the clinic the top line is the care diversion savings from the previous slide another area where we save money is and the lab savings this is based on the negotiated rates that care here has with lab core and so we see a significant reduction in the lab costs if they had gone out on their own that's the hundred ninety five thousand estimated in 2015 the productivity savings is just another number that we can look at on average it probably takes if you're going to go to your private practice physician probably by the time you drive there wait see the position drive back it could be up to three hours to do that we feel pretty confident that unless you're going in for a 40-minute exam because you're going in for your physical follow-up or whatever that most everybody can get from where they are in the city access the clinic in 20 minutes and get back within about an hour so we feel that's about a two-hour savings in productivity again it's just a way of measuring it looking at about a $15 per hour which is probably very conservative for our workforce that would leave about two hundred and fifty nine thousand dollars in additional productivity savings and then going to councilman Briggs comment the last line there is the patient out-of-p ocket savings and so that's those copayments that our employees aren't having to pay to access care that if they went into the medical network they would have to pay okay so there is a tangible savings to our employees to use the clinic as well do you know how our negotiated lab savings rate stack up to you know your blue crosses and your night at health cares I mean are we getting about the same level or we probably a little higher than that do you have any idea I do because I was very skeptical when care here first told me that they could do it cheaper the United Health Care could because I felt like United Health Care giant company lots of lives they would be able to do that but when it comes to the very core things that we do at the clinic like the health risk assessment blood draw which is a very specific panel of blood because they do it all the time they do we actually compared the lab rates and they were lower than what at that point time you know health care had available to us so one thing we talked about too was the patient satisfaction we try and do a patient satisfaction survey every year there's a lot of different things that are asked about in that patient satisfaction survey but here are a few that I always pull out and look at the clinic is my first offer illness health concern or wellness you know 70% the health risk assessment has helped me better understand my health almost 90% would recommend the clinic and on down the list the one of course the bottom the clinic team is friendly caring and system by needs you have 90% feel that way about it so I feel like we have good feedback from our employees here are some actual comments that people felt compelled to write in on the survey about the health center I will use the health center I feel like it's one of the biggest perks I have at the city this last one I really like because that was kind of our goal we wanted to make it easy and convenient for our employees to access the clinic and then hook them with the great care that we're going to provide for them people to coming back and this person said I started out as a patient because of the convenience and no cost but I continue as a patient because of the excellent care it's maybe possible to greatly improve my health and the last one really is what the clinic was all about was to get our employees and our patient base to just understand what their risk factors are and then give them the tools and resources to try and make changes that they wanted to and so this person says I think the health risk assessment is great I never knew some of my numbers and probably wouldn't now I know it more than one person that found a life-threatening illness due to the HRA and the health center so we're trying to make a difference our employee the patient base early on so basically why are we here today and that's the request for proposal our contract with care here expired at the end of 2016 we extended it twice to the end of April to facilitate the completion of the RFP process one thing I wanted to make clear because I think councilman Hawkins kind of alluded to it and I know it seemed like we got a might have gotten confused or the message lost in the meeting on the 21st the scope of this RFP was to find a vendor qualified vendor to manage our existing clinic and so it wasn't to replace the clinic it wasn't to have our patients be seen by somebody else or their patients be seen in our clinic many of the vendors that proposed already have a clinic presence in the DFW area concentra I believe Cerner has a clinic care here has several clinics in the DFW area and certainly the community health clinic has their clinic here in Denton it was never the intent that we would intermingle patient bases or that their providers would see our and vice versa so I just want to make that clear about the RFP scope that was what we're looking we were going to hire a management company to manage our existing clinic yes well thank you for clarifying that that I was confused about that and I think many were at that first time we saw it you know I didn't know if they were going to be commingled that sort of thing or if this was still specific for staff and staff's family members so thank you for clearing that up and as a we've received seven responses that we evaluated so getting into the I guess the nitty-gritty of the evaluation process as we discussed on the 21st we looked at this in basically three major criteria the first was cost or total cost which was 50% of the total evaluation 20% was compliance with the specifications quality reliability and then 30% was the indicators of probable performance under the contract so just real quick and I'll try to keep as brief as I can we look at total cost there are two kind of main components there's the administrative cost which is typically a per employee per month cost PEPM that we pay to the vendor for the operation and management the overhead the profit margin of the clinic itself and then there's the one referred to as the operational cost that's the salaries the benefits the lab work you know the supplies the office supplies on down the list so for the purposes of this evaluation for the total cost we were looking at that administrative part the per employee per month cost they were also looking at the estimated cost because we knew we got really good discounts with care here in lab core so we wanted to look at some of their frequently frequently accessed lab work to see how their discounts stacked up against what we have with lab core the cost of the annual health risk assessment some people roll that into the PEPM price others had it as a separate line item so we want to consider that the medical malpractice is also another example of where sometimes it's a PEPM part or it's separate but we wanted to factor that into it and then also the one-time implementation cost that might be important because of the transition or data transfer what have you so those are all the things that went into the cost evaluation and while this contract is a one- year contract with up to four one-year renewals when we looked at it we looked at the overall potential cost for the full five years when we evaluated it so here's the way the cost lined out in terms of scoring this it was a maximum of 50 points so the firm that had the lowest cost got 50 points and the spreadsheet portions points based on their relationship to that lowest cost to come up with the other point totals and so you can see concentric came at the lowest about 1.58 care here was at 1.9 we care a little over 2 million Cerner and Dinton community were at 2.2 marathon at almost 2.4 and a viral health almost 3.3 and the points that they received based on a cost evaluation so any questions about the cost component customer breaks which is on the scoring is there a percentage tied to like a certain amount I'm just trying to understand like where did the the 24.1 was the the beginning right so the score is it where does it start does it start at zero and go to 50 or 50 would be the most points that anybody could score and then as firms are more expensive than the lowest cost then their points go down and so I don't know if Karen could give me the insight as far as to the lowest points I mean I don't think anybody would get zero right I mean even even if they were because if you look at variable health they were over two times the cost of concentra and they still got some points so I would think even if they were three and four times there was still be some level of points they would get it just wouldn't be very many because they're so far from the lowest value that kind of answer the question so this I mean when you those that if you could go back to the previous slide so these are do what well where you talked about the cost portion includes certain items but this is the price for the cost but it wasn't there are some other let me see maybe this okay so this is just basically based upon a number there's not any subjective criteria in here this is based upon this is what they're saying their cost is and do they meet these kind of they have medical malpractice insurance and things such as that is that my understanding there's not really any kind of subjectivity in this part of it the price component purely objective okay gotcha so the second area was compliance with specifications quality reliability and characteristics to meet the needs so an effort to try and make it a more kind of apples-to-apples comparison what we did was we looked at some of the key factors that the review committee felt were important into demonstrating a vendor's ability to comply with our specifications and you know give the quality that we were expecting and so we picked about six or seven things that we felt were important tied back to responses in the RFP and then we assign weights on those so for example we felt that the proposed staffing model their ability to you know meet what we already had in place to be able to duplicate that was more important necessarily than the after hours nurse line it was important but not quite as important and so we assigned the various weights now we could have certainly had ten or twenty things on that list but then everything we waited like two percent or five percent would be hard to have any differentiation between that point and so essentially what we did was we took the weight 25 15 on down the line and then we multiply that time to times a score of between one and 20 because this is again was worth 20% so basically 20 point maximum and so that's how we came up with the evaluation for that piece of it so we oh I'm sorry go ahead so when we apply that through the matrix this was the way that they scored out under the compliance section so you had care here being the incumbent we obviously have intimate knowledge of what they can do for us they've done all the things we've asked for us they got 20 and then down to concentra at the 14.85 so that was on that component piece of the evaluation if you could go back one slide please is that information and this is I just don't know so this is more of a question of curiosity when we sent out RFPs and we have these type of scoring criteria or these type of mechanisms to score I could say this one for instance a compliance evaluation are these percentages or the weight tied to these specific characteristics presented in the RFP or is this something that's simply in-house to staff and the the proposers don't have any idea on how it gets scored right the only thing that's presented in the RF P is really those three categories the price with a little bit more of a verbal explanation of what that includes them what I just have with a bullet point line and same with each of those but getting into the nitty-gritty of what that is and the weights no that was something that kind of evolved working with purchasing on trying to find the best way to objectively measure a lot of different information coming in the RFPs and so that was a way of us trying to again apples-apples comparison on some data that's kind of hard to quantify sometimes go ahead and correct me if I'm wrong but if you put all of that information in the RFP they're gonna answer the questions to match the weight of the and try to skew their answers to fit that model you know what you want is objective material so you can line them all up after everything's in and then take a look at what you have and see who matches where and why I think that's a very real possibility and the most part we would ask would ask you know sort of open any questions about somewhere yes no but a lot of them were tell us how you're going to do this or how you're going to do this and so you're correct if we built in this waiting then it might skew their answers if you'd go back a couple of slides to the point totals for price there you go consentra got 50 points because it was the lowest price yes sir now Carol care here got 41 points it's the second lowest price so the number 41 was that mathematically derived by looking at the percentage difference between their estimated five-year cost and concentra and it was some type of percentage and so instead of getting 50 points that's how you determine 41 points Karen is shaking your head at me that that is correct okay so and and the same formula was applied all the way down so that so that there are the number seven there a whole health that's that's about a little over twice as much in cost gets half the number of points yes sir so there's some kind of correlation there yes sir it's the relationship to the lowest price proposal determines the points they get so those scores aren't just well they were a little less so we'll give them 41 points we could be 42 but I could be 40 but we'll just give it's based on the numerical calculation yes sir thank you and if you could go to that that slide so this criteria is all this determined prior to receiving the RFPs you know the official proposals or is like I'm gonna say these specific bullet points with the corresponding weights is that already in place before they come in or are these criteria like 50% price 20% compliance and then the other ones are those sort of determined after the RFP has been closed it's a little bit of both there were some that we already had in mind that we wanted to definitely evaluate on but then after going through the RF Ps and seeing some of the discrepancies or differences in the way they were being proposed that helped us kind of frame formerly I guess the things were really important to us based on that so it was a little bit of both but that was the first initial exercise of the review committee when they got together was to go through and figure out what these kind of key components were and the weights we wanted to assign to those yes mayor pro tem along those lines and this is tell me if this is out of your domain to answer this question but abstracting from this particular RFP when we do RFPs generally in this in the in the city or RFQs is it typically the practice to display what we're objectively measuring and the weights I mean do we have a standard practice of how we put out RFPs in the city and doesn't include that or does it not or is it different I guess go back to councilman was he's coming I mean we didn't publish these specific weights or these specific questions it's usually typically these three or four main criteria no and I know I know for this one that was that was your answer I guess my question is a bit more globally does the city have a procedure in place or almost like a format upon which it typically puts out our requests for proposals requests for qualifications and does that include typically include things like here's what we're measuring you want and the weighting system that question given your role I don't know all the RFPs that I 've been involved with the answer has been no we haven't gotten to this detail of the weighting of everything it's been typically three or four main compliance or factors we want to evaluate and that's been yet it also depends on who's writing the RFP because you have different people writing different RFPs based upon what the scope of work is so the person writing the RFP has to understand the scope of work so it's going to fall under department and purchasing working together but there's I don't think there's any cookie cutter RFP to answer your question because every request for proposal or our queue is different depending on what it is that they're after I think we have someone might be able to give us some illumination on this with mine taking the podium please thank you I am Karen Smith this is a purchasing manager so generally we don't normally have these criteria developed in advance of going through the RFP process we kind of have a standard practice that we use in standard criteria but of course it does change based on the product or service in this case what we found was that the committee was having was struggling trying to get their arms around this huge evaluation and so we've had to identify some key items that were important to us so this is a tool that we use to help get there because it is very complex as you can see councilmember Gregory thank you a couple of other questions I guess you're involved in a lot of our yeah yes sir and do most of these RFPs when they go out do they have some information to the applicant or potential respondents the potential respondent thank you about deadlines yes and and so it explains when the deadline is and what the ramifications are for not meeting the deadline yes so we have a standard template that we use for all of our RFPs as dates it's very clear as to the dates when certain milestones are when they're due question cut off those types of things and of course it can't be adjusted based upon the time it takes for the evaluation committee so sometimes we're shooting for this council meeting but maybe the negotiations take longer in this case the evaluation took much longer than we anticipate it and in that template normally goes out do we do we have any information to the potential what well the respondents once they've responded there their respondents do we have any information that we that sends out to them regarding who they are to communicate with and they are not to communicate with yes it is published in there that you're caught there to contact me my name and email and phone number are in there is in in the main template so we update that each time and then also in our standard terms and conditions it's clear that they're not to contact the evaluation committee council members or other other people thank you welcome I'm a little concerned and maybe I'm not hearing it correctly it sounds like what we're saying is as a matter of practice sometimes the city waits to determine our criteria for selecting the RFPs until we get and review the proposals and then we're starting to determine criteria based on what we're seeing in those proposals not that I think anyone's doing anything wrong I think that's just the way I'm hearing that that imports the possibility that we have internal staff members that are getting the conclusions that they're trying to get based on that sort of process so as a as a policymaker I'm concerned about that process so alleviate my concerns what am I not understanding about that all right well the request for proposals actually we're we're giving a scope of work and we may not we're not experts and by any means and so sometimes through the proposal process you learn of a new a new better way to do things and so because we have the process we're allowed to ask additional questions and get additional information and create a fair playing field and that's ultimately the goal is to make sure we have that now I've done a lot of RFPs and we haven't gone to this sense of detail but because we were kind of really struggling with that to get our arms around the differences between each of the proposers each of them offered a lot of different moving parts and so that's the reason why we employed this technique to continue to move forward and is there safeguards in place that and I I appreciate that right I mean because you want to be able to as a government allow for innovation out there in the marketplace that you're not anticipating in your standard requests for proposals is there a check in place that says as we're kind of discovering say a new something we didn't know about the industry right that came about from a proposal that makes sure that the criteria that we're now looking at based on that new knowledge isn't exceeding the original kind of broad-based request that we put out there yes I mean at what point would you say we're gonna have to put this out again because we're asking for something else well I mean that's typically our role as the purchasing professional in this is to make sure that we're creating a fair environment for for our vendors or potential ender and I understand the issues that we have on hand from our staff so we want to make sure that we're creating a level playing field and that really comes down to us and sometimes we'll consult with legal as to if we you know but typically we try to stay within the scope that was advertised and if it's outside of the scope that was advertised and we feel like we may potentially have to re solicit that to make sure that it's clear in a level playing field for everybody so that's the role that we bring when we when the departments go through a community an evaluation process we're there to help guide them through that and create that level playing field and fairness and then if there's if we stray we try to bring them back and make sure that we can justify and and provide a fair environment yes. Councilmember Gregory. All right so I'm learning something new and this is very helpful I love this so let's imagine that when these proposals went out nobody had ever talked about an after hours nurse line and call center never heard of that never done it never been a part of anything but in one of the RFPs one of the respondents offered that correct and and now the committee is saying hmm that sounds like a good thing for our employees let's let's include that in the evaluation factors but nobody else none of the other respondents mentioned that would we go back and say do you offer an after hours nurse line and call center would we do that yes we can huh yes yes we can okay so so then that would that would help kind of even the playing field exactly they may they may have that but they didn't think to do it because it's standard practice for them and they didn't think that would be a selling point one of the respondents did and now we go back said well do y'all do that is this part of the deal and is there an additional cost associated with us requesting that because if if in this case we asked that was one of the questions I believe was we asked specific questions it was very detailed the questions that we were asking so they had to indicate whether they did or not but sometimes you do learn I've done some software where there's an app they're gonna include the app with it and that's a benefit to us but we have to understand what that cost is and is it doesn't make sense for us we didn't ask for it what is the benefit of that and then we might ask the other respondents if they have an app available and what that additional cost would be if that's important to us learning more about our FPs all the time all right so you stated that you can or we we may go back and ask the other propos ers of an RFP if something came up in one proposal that that was new and was not part of the others can and made we made that's sort of a that's that's that's not a shall that's we decide whether we want to do that or not well so okay to your point is that if it really changes the scope then we probably wouldn't go back and ask everybody to do that because we feel the scope has changed greater than what we advertised it for and what we solicited for and my fear is that maybe we eliminated somebody that could do that because it wasn't included in the original RFP so that's the key is that we're trying to create what is the scope change and does that really warrant that it should go back out sure and then I appreciate that and I count mayor pro tem my questions aren't to try to imply that something I'm just trying to understand the process no no that's fine I just wanted to make sure that you understood that the goal here is to make sure that we have of course of course and so you've talked about that you would go back and send it back out or notify people if it seemed to change the scope so I'm only trying to work with numbers here because you got to find some way to make that determination did this change the scope or did it or did it not we did not change the scope from what was originally requested we did go back to too many firms to seek clarification because we didn't feel like maybe the question was answered well enough maybe there were some missing parts that some people had left and then also the benefit that we get is we get to see the tabulation sheet and see that see all the pricing and so sometimes we might see and something that's out of the norm so we might ask yeah and I think y'all did that on this one there was some on the best and final correct so then to follow up on that question of so let's just say and people chose this that's the only reason I'm bringing up the the last one the after hours nurse line and call center which has been given a weight of 10% so you got eight proposals one comes in with an after hours nurse line and call center you look at it you go huh this really hadn't been mentioned so we that sounds like a benefit to us how much weight do we want to give it so we decided 10% so given that would that be something and maybe it's the percentage of weight you give in other words if it's 10% is that enough of a threshold to go over the change changing the scope of the RFP or does it have to be something that you're giving a much bigger weight to I guess is and that's very subjective I'm just trying to understand how you make that decision on whether to let people know because if you're if something's new and you're adding additional points to it and nobody else knows about it within its essence those people that that one has a advantage and whether you tell them or not I guess that's a that's a matter of decision I'm just trying to understand how you make that decision I understand your question sir so the in this case if it had changed we didn't ask for that then it is incumbent on us to make sure that everybody is given an opportunity to provide that but in this case we did ask everybody for that particular item if they had information regarding that but to your point is that if it was something new we had a respondent that said we can do XYZ for you and we felt that was important then we would put that back out to the group if it didn't change the scope so greatly I'll give you an example we have one right now that's out and we needed to seek some clarification because we we wanted to make sure that the pricing included certain components and sometimes we'll do that okay did that answer your question it did it's still a little I think there's it's still a little there's not that hard line of that decision-making process and I don't know that I'm not saying there should be I'm like in your instance where you said this one y'all did ask for if you got one in that you hadn't asked for I thought what I heard you say let's say for instance the after hours nurse line call center there was not a question in that RFP and someone sent that in and said hey we've got an after hours nursing call center because it was new and it wasn't a question that y'all had asked would you have automatically said we've got to send out and ask everybody do they have this provision as well or would you have gone well that really doesn't change the scope we'll give it a little bit percentage and is that question I think that if it felt if the committee felt that it was something that we really wanted to include that we would send that out to the all of the other respondents and see if they could provide that service to be fair no and understand that so if it was one that the committee decided they didn't think was necessary to send back out right would you still give a weight percentage to that component no okay we wouldn't all right because it 's it's nice and that's an added benefit got you but it's not what we were after perfect thank you that that helps me greatly yes any more questions I'm sorry any more questions yes just because I'm learning a lot here you said committee does the committee is that purchasing and then people from HR who have put this initial out um where does that who is on the committee all right the committee varies depending upon the good or service is there purchasing app acts as a liaison and an advisor in that role so I don't necessarily have a vote per se or or input I'm there to help provide guidance to committee because oftentimes the committee's they do this very infrequently and I do it all the time so I'm there to help them through that process and make sure that we're being fair so in this instance the committee was a risk we had somebody from the employee health insurance committee and then we had a few people from risk and HR so it's usually the department that is issuing the RFP that makes up the committee and its members and it depends on if it's something really complex that affects whole city we may get a diversified group of people that are stakeholders thank you welcome thank you appreciate that very good information thank you so much I mean just to clarify I mean everything that we waited in here tied back to a question in the RFP because just for our own sanity we had to be able to find out where that answer was and so we made sure we could tie it back to a question no appreciate that so I think you showed us okay this yeah okay that was the compliance part yes okay so then moving into the last part was the indicators of probable performance again 30% so 30 points maximum here were some of the criteria again that we waited in that the two biggest ones really in this category were the experience and managing employer clinics because I think for a lot of the things we do we want people with experience that we do it when it's painting a wall to a software solution or whatever it might be we're looking for experience and then if we were going to have to transition to a whole new vendor what kind of experience do they have in transitioning clinics because that was going to be a really key component that we could keep things operational while we're trying to bring in a new vendor and still serve our patient base and so that was two of the more heavily weighted factors that were in that and that tied back to especially the the experience tied back to some of our minimum qualifications about having experience and on and on and on and so that's why we thought those two were two of the more important ones so just to give you guys some idea about the folks who proposed on this particular RFP and their experience you know that's the listing of their care here has 208 clinics across the country Cerner 175 and kind of on down the list and so we were fortunate to have a lot of people who this is what they do for a living as far as managing clinics for employers and so they've been able to replicate show success continue earn business client after client state after state location after location and so we thought that was a pretty important factor in overall evaluation same thing with the transition experience care here being the incumbent that wasn't so applicable to them but everybody else had done multiple clinics some were not very specific as far as our timelines consider said you know we've done 16 in 2016 marathon said they've done 15 but it was kind of unclear about the time frame we care 50% of business came from takeover clinics those types of things and so those were two of the evaluation processes that we factored into that fairly heavily and so when that all came through the wash again care here was at the top Cerner 28.5 and on down the list based on a lot of their experience and their transition plan and transition experience so we put all three of those factors together this is kind of how they all stacked out we looked at the price the compliance the performance and then the far right hand column is a total column and the lower the number for the valuation purposes the better it is because that's how they ranked one through through seven so you see that care here came in at number one Cerner was second concentra we care didn't community marathon and then Vera Whole Health we're looking at those things in totality and that was the final ranking that we presented you guys during the meeting on the 21st as far as the total point score based on all that evaluation that we've just talked about for those three components so with that being said staff is recommending that we go with care here there is an action item and the items for individual consideration after this portion of it to consider that we're doing that based on a lot of factors even though they are not the one with the lowest cost really the main one is just a five-year track record of having a very successful clinic helping us manage our patient base helping us trying to achieve the goals that we set out for when we had this idea a number of years ago they've been very responsive to our requests sometimes the the fix maybe took longer than we anticipated but sometimes I think that's reality we were talking about software systems and those types of things obviously they have exterior extensive experience in managing these clinics with 208 under their belt by staying with them there's no issue with us losing the existing staff because they're all very comfortable with that relationship and therefore that patient provider relationship is secured no other potential transition issues that can come in because we're not changing out electronic medical records and what have you they do have the after all nurse line and a call center which some of the proponents had and others didn't concentra for example did not have that option available to us I feel like they've got a very demonstrated commitment to continuous management clinic management improvement they really want to make things better they're a true partner with us in trying to meet the needs of our patient base there's constant dialogue between us and them about and the providers about ways that we can improve things make things better meet the needs of our patient base they have an integrated health coach now the Mary Ponce is here in the DFW area she can be in our clinic whenever we need her for to counsel with patients or to do telephonic counseling which she does a lot of they have a very robust wellness platform that's kind of a key way of accessing our healthy incentive program that we talked about before and so it's very important to us that they have that capability that tech platform to allow that and then again just being a very demonstrated collaborative effort with the clinic what we're trying to accomplish so with that I'll stand for more questions if you could just go back to the slides that summarize the points for each one of the categories not that one but I mean the specific like pricing you had the points and then you had so pricing was that one okay yeah pricing was that one so so because I think number one and two in the end was care here and concentra is that correct yes sir okay so there there's a there's a nine-point spread okay and then the other compliance so there so they're down at the bottom so you felt that they really couldn't comply the biggest areas for that one if you want to look at it was the after hours nurse line and call center they didn't have one and so we have about on average about a hundred calls a month they go to the call center for care here that would not have been accessible by them they also the minimum age requirement they only wanted to see patients that were five years of age or older okay and we currently see a just two and up and so there was about 50 patients roughly 49 I think that would not have been able to access care or clinic and more of that so those were a couple of things that helped weight them down a little bit sure okay and then sorry yeah and this is the one and not so much between the two of them but this one when you look at your criteria it's pretty heavily weighted to the the clinic that we already have in in other words you know they 're the incumbent I mean between 208 140 something clinics right to me it's okay you got 80 more but I think once you get to that level is probably so that was my only thought here I'm not saying it's a complaint or an issue but it just when I look at that previous experience clinic transition which is primarily that's moving from one to the other in other words if you have an incumbent right you're not gonna have to transition and there are some inherent advantages the incumbents going to have they're not gonna have tripling transition costs either part of the process yes sir okay all right okay great any other questions yes Councilmember so I know on some of our RFPs local businesses are given a little bit or given some points on that and I realize I've heard that on this one it's not can you explain why could you repeat that question one more time please local preference okay gotcha I know it has to do with the services and the value and on local preference we do not continue local sorry let me start over again we do not consider local preference for RFPs so we do for bids so a form like if we were doing a water line there's some there's very specific criteria that relate to that as far as dollar limits and when we can consider that and that's in the state law and so we mirror the state law here as well and so it's not done in RFPs and we can't do that for professional services as well which would be an RFQ any other questions for this presentation all right thank you thank you guys for your time thank you thank you Scott all right we'll go on to agenda item 1c which is under the work session review discuss and provide direction regarding the duties and plans of the city auditor I tell you what before we let's just take a five-minute break we'll take a five minute break Craig if you don't mind is that okay you bet all right thank you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you you all right we're reconvening this meeting of the Dent City Council Tuesday March the 28th 2017 we're on it is 342 we're on work session item 1c review discuss and provide direction regarding the duties and plans of the city auditor great go ahead thank you mayor members of the council I'm going to talk a little bit about internal audit today one of the first things that an auditor does when he takes a new assignment is looks at the author itative pronouncements that are in place for his position and you see one of them on the overhead section 604 the city charter there's also an ordinance 2017 63 that deals with access to documents and collaboration amongst management and the city auditor one of the things that when I looked at those authoritative pronouncements there were some things that I thought perhaps should be added to them one of the things is independence if an auditor is not independent you do not have an internal auditor you merely have a management analyst when I look at our standards generally accepted government auditing standards 26 pages out of 177 pages talk about independence that's how important independence is but I don't see it mentioned anywhere in any of the authoritative pronouncements something else are duties and responsibilities typically when I look at city charters for city auditors I see duties and responsibilities not necessarily specific duties and responsibilities but in general they are provided in the authoritative pronounce ment another item are standards I follow generally accepted government aud iting standards provide credibility to what an auditor does and so I don't see any mention of those in the authoritative pronouncements backing up to this first screen when I read this first screen it says the city auditor shall be appointed by the council shall serve at the pleasure of the council and should perform such auditing duties as may be assigned from time to time by the council by the city manager at the direction of the council now when it comes to the audit plan which I will present one to you today the way I interpret this it sounds like the audit plan comes from the council that's what it sounds like but typically in every city I've been in the audit plan comes from the city auditor and moves up to the city council so I think that there should be some clarification exactly what that means it could be done in the duties and responsibilities section but I just wanted to provide you with my input I know that there's a city charter review Commission in place right now and these are items that I thought that should get some attention I have a question help me understand you said that there's independence and if you don't have independence then you're simply a management analyst yes so I think I understand what you're saying but share with me in your own words what you mean by that well if you're not independent you really can't be called an internal water because if you have don't have independence then basically you fall under management and you're a management analyst so you have to it's the independence that the auditor has that makes that person an auditor and if there's no independence from what they audit then they're really not an internal auditor they're just an analyst management analyst okay and I I still help clarify that just a little bit when you say independent okay because we we the City Council you're a council appointee right and so when you say independence you mean what when you think of that word what do you what does that mean I'm saying it's independence from what I audit and in other words in this case would be independence from management okay that means that you don't talk with management they don't talk with you they don't review your your reports you don't I mean what I'm still trying to understand what that means and obviously they're not telling you what to do so what right yeah well and this came up during the interview process also I remember mentioning that sure one of the most difficult things that an auditor has to do is the auditor has to be independent but at the same time the auditor has to collaborate with management and there's a real fine line there but independence it's independence from what we audit and who we audit that's what independence means okay all right okay council member Gravey well you I thought you were very familiar with your question mayor because the auditor is serves at the pleasure of the council correct so when you say you're independent do you mean you're independent of the council or from the council no no independent from what I what I audit and and from management I'm independent from management so do you read anything in the city charter as it's written right now that we prohibit you from developing a an audit plan and presenting it to the council to be approved no that's what I'm going to do tonight okay present one tonight and is that standard kind of what you've done in the past oh yeah and that's what you're familiar with that other auditors have done that is correct so right now I think what I'm hearing you say is while the city the wording in the charter may be imperfect it certainly does not prohibit you from doing what you have done in the past and what you're proposing to be doing here now yeah you guys would be correct yes okay thank you yes Kathleen I'm sorry if I could take a stab at clarification independent internal auditor is basically a checks and balance of all of the things that are going on at the city if if the auditor is merely staff who reports to city manager and its city manager who says let's just say case and correct me if I'm wrong auditor comes and says this is an area of the city that I would like to audit and if you report it directly to the city manager and didn't have independence theoretically it would give the city manager the power to say no can't you can't audit there am I right with that right I could be influenced by management if I reported to management if I was doing an audit and so part part of this is the risk assessment to take a look at where should I where should I audit first which are should I audit second what should I audit third fourth fifth as time goes on and I think that independence means that the auditor also with direction of council if we have let's just call them some hot buttons of things that we we would like you to drill into or down to but it's very different than council saying here's something we would really like you to take a look at versus management saying I don't want you to look there or I don't want you to look that deep so that the purpose of an independent internal auditor is so he has that knowledge and assurance to say this is a this is a risk and this is where I would like to do an audit and there isn't someone who's gonna step in and say no don't want you to do that am I am I that is describing that correctly that is correct yes ma'am councilmember Gregory yeah I agree and and and I I don't read anything in the way the Charters currently say did that contradicts what you're saying and in fact what it says is that that the auditor may be assigned audits from the council maybe that he didn't even suggest in his audit plan he brings an audit plan and we say well that's great but we want to add this and we would add it and I as I read in it also the city manager may be aware of something that needs to be audited that that we're not aware of that our auditors not aware of and he could bring that up but only at our direction only at the council's direction would the auditor do that the manager can't can't start directing the the auditor to do certain things nor and it's clear that the manager can't prohibit the auditor from doing certain things that's that 's because the auditor answers to the council not to the manager well and I think you answered my question in a sentence in your response to councilman Was ney and you said that and you would not be independent if you reported to the city manager well the very structure of our governance of the city you report directly to the city council so in that sense by the very nature of the structure of the organization you're independent because you do not report directly to the city manager so that helps clarify it for me where you're coming from on the independence thank you okay okay well that was just the input that I had on the no I appreciate that absolutely yep okay the next topic I have is this you know when I look at the anti-fraud program here at the city I see that we have an audited finance committee we have ethics and fraud training we have a fraud directive in place we have an internal audit department now but the one thing that I don't see is an anonymous reporting mechanism to report fraud waste and abuse tips are the number one way to catch fraud waste and abuse and so that's what I just wanted to get get your thoughts some direction on that if that is something you believe that we should have yes because I would like to have you because I'm assuming that you've had this tool in other cities that you've worked correct correct and so if you could do a staff report to council kind of outlining what those programs look like in other cities that you've worked in so that council could see how it was structured how it worked how it was effective and I think that would instead of asking you know for approval today just let us learn about how how it works and I'd appreciate that yeah I mean I could briefly very quickly tell you how it worked in the in the last two assignments that I had there was a direct line coming into my office it was an anonymous phone line we also had on the internet an anonymous report form that vendors citizens and employees could fill out we also had an email that was a fraud hot line email they could do it through the US Postal Service or they could come in person so those were the five different modes of communication that we had that was in-house I've also seen it where it was outsourced to a third party and so those are the two different ways that I've seen before I think that's almost a whole work session discussion so what provides the direction at the end yeah thanks okay my next item that I wanted to go over I want to share with you the different types of reports that can be issued by the internal audit department and all these are dictated by the objectives or needs of the user and so the one that is most prevalent that has the highest assurance would be the audit report and so this is an example here of an audit report and just quickly to go over the format you see the authorization from the audit plan gets approved the objectives scope and methodology then I have the background and then I also have the opportunities then for improvement and so and I have an overall conclusion the opportunities for improvement you will see have five elements they have condition that's what the problem is the criteria the way it should be the effect what's the big deal here and then the cause what's the difference between the condition and the criteria and the recommendation then you have the management response typically management has two weeks to do the management response and then an action plan and then implementation date so this is an audit report this again gives the highest assurance there's test of records sufficient and appropriate evidence has to be received to come up with conclusions and recommendations now the other report that I want to show that the real quick question hold on just you were testing my Evelyn would reading I'm sorry I'm sorry Graham there when you were okay no no when you're talking about cost in the in the summary of the report I'm assuming you're talking about the cost of not implementing the recommendations in terms of possible violations or you know hurting your your getting the grant renewed or something like that well the cost in this particular audit here I believe there was a mention I'm not sure you saw it but there was a mention in here that you know it's very inexpensive to use p cards compared to other types of payments so that's what I was I think I may have been sitting at okay so so so then it could be cost to cost savings correct or it could be expenditure of extra funds that may ultimately reduce result in some savings you you might want to be putting into some new systems that might initially have some upfront cost but then have some savings down the road correct okay so so the cost could be any of those kinds of it could be any of those things yes yes Councilman Wasney did your audit reports where did they go did they were they posted on a city website yes how these particular order ports flowed was first they went through the Audit and Finance Committee then they went up to the full council after the full council then they were public information the reports were the work papers are prohibited from being public information but the reports did go on the website yes and that's the way it's been in every situation that I've had experiences with and that's encouraged in the standards that they would go on the website and I see that with many cities in the state of Texas correct thank you right okay now another type of report that an internal audit department can issue is one that gives moderate assurance this is not high assurance like an audit report it's moderate assurance now it is limited to inqu iries and analytical procedures this is called a review and so it's limited to that in this particular situation this Convention of Visitors Bureau they weren't interested in a high assurance through an audit all they wanted to know was did anything look out of sync that's all they wanted to know and so therefore this was good enough for them this this was it and the reason I'm presenting this also these different types of reports is because of scarce resources some of these reports don't take as long but it depends on the needs and objectives of the users you'll notice in this particular report it says based on our review where you're not aware of any material modifications that should be made to the company financial statements in order for them to be in compliance with GAP so that's a negative assurance report is what a review is but it's limited to inquiries and analytical procedures okay now another type of report that internal audit can provide is called a prospective analysis and this is going to be analysis or conclusions based on assumptions and methodologies that would be based on a forecast and so in this case here what we did is council wanted us to look at revenue estimates the city of Dallas we took the largest funds and we audited the assumptions and methodologies as to how they came up with their forecasted revenues and so this is called a prospective analysis this one ends in an opinion it says in our opinion the accompanying forecast and underlying assumptions provide a reasonable basis for management's forecast so that's how that report what that report can give you and is audit on futuristic information okay now another type of report that internal audit can provide is called an agreed upon procedures engagement and this is exactly what it says it's agreed upon between management through the council to the city auditor or from the City Council to the city auditor this is a chance for the council to give me procedures and I just do exactly what the procedures are and you can see here this is at the city of Dallas they do agree upon procedures all the time for sole source bids and and other types of b ids in this case this was another type of bid this dealt with underground storage tank removal and replacement and it was about 14 procedures that they had to go through and they all they do was no exceptions were found as a result of applying the procedure if there was an exception that would be so stated here but all it is is these procedures came from their council and they fulfill those procedures and so you may ask well why would they do that this doesn't give much assurance to us so why would we have an agreed upon procedures engagement well the the benefit that the internal audit brings to this is that they 're wanting an independent third party independent assessment and that's what they got here and so that's an agreed upon procedures report okay so that was my third does anybody have any questions on the different types of reports right that is correct and I think you're going to find that when I go over the FY 17 audit plan that's my next topic here I think you 'll see that because I make recommendations on that so but they bet you 're right that's exactly right okay so this is the FY 17 audit plan now in the process here what I did is this was done through inquiries and through my own observations and I saw likelihood and impact to observations in the inquiries and that was done through complexity through materiality through the concerns of council and management any past issues and so I took all that into effect and I signed the risk factors the likelihood and impact so there were certain things that popped out once I had those subject areas what I did was I had to deal with my scarce resources that being ours and so as auditors what we do we split out our time three ways we have administrative hours we have time off hours and we have audit hours and so you'll see them here so for this is for a six month period of time it's 1,040 hours is what I have budgeted here I'm budgeting 175 hours for administrative time 40 hours for time off and then 825 hours for audits so what I've come up with here is the plan for the next six months I have a contract administration audit to evaluate the process and determine if accountability is in place I have that budget ed at 400 hours now what would this audit entail we'd be looking at policies and procedures we've been looking at training we'd be looking at the initial review of contracts I'd be looking at the renewals on the contracts and so and the most important thing is I'll be looking at accountability for these contracts is there a central repository for all councilmember Hawkins has a question do you work on all these together or one at a time or is it not yeah what I usually do is I usually have several of them going at one time and here's here's why I do that because sometimes there's a hold up on one of the audits I may be waiting to interview somebody or waiting for some information and so so as to not to waste time I'm usually working on like in this case probably a couple at a time I'll probably do yes okay so the contract administration audit is is one of the audits I have here the other one and this this is a full-blown audit we have agreed upon procedures engagements as the next one evaluate certain contracts bids purchases etc I have 150 hours allocated to those type of engagements and this was from requests that I got and so these are agreed upon procedures so this is where you have the opportunity to provide me procedures and I will carry them out carry them out and provide you a report now one of the things I want to mention here is there's five components of the internal control framework management is responsible for those one of those components is monitoring and that's called ongoing monitoring and so as an auditor I audit that I make sure that management has an ongoing monitoring process in place now if the auditor gets involved in ongoing monitoring then I'm performing a management function which is an independence issue I can't do that the other thing I will mention is if I get involved in something like that I could end up auditing my own work which also would be an independence issue now the other type of monitoring is separate evaluations that's what the auditor does separate evaluations so we don't I don't do ongoing monitoring so I just I just wanted to make sure that everybody understood that so that 's agreed upon procedures engagements now the last audit that I have here is a vendor master file audit now you might not be familiar with a vendor master file the vendor master file basically is the key to the door for payments in the city it is a repository of vital information on who pays us or who we pay I'm sorry the thing is we don't want any unauthorized or inappropriate activity in that particular file it's a critical file here at the city that some people are not familiar with but but it's one that needs to take take a we need to take a look at it a vendor master file audit so that is the audit part now what I have here in this section I have investigations advisements risk assessment annual audit plan annual reports at 75 hours now one thing I want to mention out of this is advisement so so how does internal audit how they provide advisements to the city to the city organization well many times I may get calls let's say somebody has a question about internal controls they can call me up I provide advisement to them the other way that internal audit can help the organization is by sitting on committees in an advisory capacity for example I was on an RFP for a travel management company I 've been an RP committee for a accounting system I've been on the risk advisory committee for a garland power and light so those are other ways that internal auditors can benefit the organization through advisements so the hours that I have here are 75 hours and that gets me to my 825 there so I'm presenting this to you if you want to make any modifications to it that would be fine just I'd just like to get some direction as to if you want me to pursue this or if there's any changes you want to make to this do you have any other slides after this or is this the last I was gonna say we'll just give you direction on several of the things that you'd mention okay go ahead yeah this this is my last okay all right yeah I guess the question for me is because I know this is going to be a fairly new process for all of us right on the council I think and as far as what you decide to look at I mean when I read the charter and I hear your your discussion here today that I guess what I don't want to happen is for individual council members to come to you and initiate some kind of audit process that the rest of the council does not know about I mean so I would certainly implore you that this is a council decision just like you're presenting this audit plan for a council direction and decision that that be how that 's that's moves forward and that because I think the whole council needs to be in discussion of those matters yes councilman Wozni. Does that fall under number two agreed upon procedures engagements so that the council agrees? Yes ma'am that would be the way I would prefer that would keep me out of trouble. Keep us all out of trouble. Okay so let's take these one at a time you had asked about in the earlier presentation earlier in the presentation about the fraud hotline I think the direction seemed to be that's going to be something we're probably gonna want a work session on to come back and get a little bit more understanding of that and maybe the mechanics of that how that works and then we'll probably able to provide a little bit better direction after that discussion and then it sounds like the only other direction you're needing is what you just presented and that is this sort of audit plan for the first six months correct yes I guess I need a little bit more understanding when you say let's just take the first one for example contract administration audit evaluate the process determine if any accountability is in place so what does that mean give me just an example well what I'm gonna what I'm gonna look at again is gonna be policies and procedures training I'm gonna look at initial review of contracts is there a central repository for contracts do we have a person that's assigned accountability you know about any contract yes sir and I'm sorry I should have stated this would be an entity wide audit so any department's contracts would be fair game to be looked at okay so when you say that what when you say entity wide you're saying I'm gonna look at how each department handles the contracting procedure how does it what's the training for whoever's handling them reviewing them are they reviewed by this person are they reviewed by legal are they reviewed by in other words just try to have an understanding of a flow chart of how a contract moves through the department that is correct and what I what I correct and what I may do also is I may take samples of contracts and follow them through the process okay I appreciate that any other questions or of course he's asked for some direction on this councilmember Hawkins well sure I I wouldn't really know how to change up any you know how you change up the hours or that sort of thing so I would be okay with moving forward with it especially it only being six months right Councilmember Pro Tem. I don't have any issue with the suggestions and thinks it's fine fine the only thing I would think are in earlier independence discussion you know while I completely agree that's the only way you're gonna be able to be able to do your job and do it in a way that makes sense we have four council appointees and while they're all technically independent of one another by kind of the structure of the city we are best served to the extent that everyone's kind of playing well together and heading in the same direction direction and solving strategic goals for the city so my only thought with this I mean this is just a six month kind of run is that moving forward what might be the healthiest thing to do is be able to kind of there might be something that the city manager wants to bring to bear for this discussion because he's seen something with his new fresh new eyes our city attorney who's going to be involved in some of these things as well probably has some sense of some of that I would just I think would be healthy to have a bit of a collaborative approach because there's things that we don't know what to even ask as it relates to these sorts of things that our other appointees could probably bring the bear on that discussion that helps us make sure we're heading in the right direction or even if there's any concerns I'd want to hear that so I don't know how best to foster that I do know we have teed up some conversations with our appointees in the next few months so just a thought moving forward to try and structure that better well and one of the problems is the term limited resources and it's not money it's just personnel you know we have one internal auditor and so because this is what he does and what he has done I think this is his starting point so this will lay a foundation and correct me if I'm if I'm headed in the right direction this will lay a foundation for him so that after six months then the council has information coming in the city manager the city attorney and so I'm I agree with you I just know that we can't give him a 20-point to-do list because it's just one guy just one man and so I I do like this list I think council then would get involved with number two the agreed upon procedure engagements so that we'd have a council decision on what is kind of the what are certain contracts bids purchases or areas that you know council would like him to do a look at so help help me think through this this is kind of a establishing the concrete foundation for where you will go after the first six months that is correct and the other one thing I will mention particularly when it comes to the contract administration audit since that is entity wide there could be offshoots from that audit in other words once I see what's going on in that audit I may find some weaknesses that I want to more get into more detail and so it's possible and very probable that that that could happen with this particular audit then I would put that into FY 18 audit plan so you know that's just something I wanted to add on to what you said so a work in progress and that this is kind of a broad brushstroke to say these are the three basic priorities for the first six months and then after that of course we'll have a new council seat it as well so okay that that helps me thank you I'm good with this but I'd also just like to go on record to say that I'm I'm okay and in favor of an anonymous tip line I think that's a great idea and we heard many auditors bring that up during our interview process so I think more information would be great but I think it's a great idea and this looks fine to me okay all right yes yeah I just want to be on the record that I like the idea of the anonymous tip line too I just need to see the logistics of how it works and I'm sure it's a little different in different cities and you can kind of point out pluses and minuses of different systems before the council decides if and how they pursue this right right and that that's fine because I wanted to do today was get yes or no from y'all if you were interested in it so that's good so I'll bring something back to the council good thank you yes mr. city attorney in terms are here interim I just wanted to add what he's asking for and it seems the council is going in that direction it'd probably be wise to memorialize that in an ordinance for adoption for the next six months just to make sure that it is there keep it in mind that we do have a charter review committee that this is one of the topics that they are currently discussing and have some proposed language that they'll vote on it sometime in the future to bring back to you that addresses some of the initial concerns the independence duties and responsibilities and standards that Craig has raised to you all would it help to have mr. hamn itor actually go to a charter committee meeting and answer questions that they have sometime in the future we're going to pick this back up this this particular provision right now they are engaged in the ethics discussion and so when they do come back that is something that we can present to the chair of the committee as well as the rest of the committee I'm sure that they would be interested in hearing more from the internal auditor now that he is on board yeah I agree thank you yeah and and I had asked Greg to contact chairman Mollroy and I think I was probably a little premature in that because I think this presentation needed to occur first so that the council can give some direction so that the charter committee would understand if there's any additional direction they would have it so he did reach out and the request was that the council hear this presentation first so I appreciate you doing that again apologize for my sort of prematureity on that yes so if we could have a resolution sooner than later so that we can vote on that and that gives mr. hamnitor his his assignment and we can tackle the anonymous tip line later and good thank you all right any other questions on this presentation you have your direction yes sir all right fantastic thank you thank you and pronounce your last name for me just pronounced Hametner Hametner that's exactly right and it's all right so I apologize for not for being so informal but I didn't want to misspeak thank you all right so we will now is are we going into there was a request that was made prior to our special called session special call meeting to move into a closed session just to discuss I guess a legal advice for one of the open I'm so are we going to go in a closed session that is that what it is yes this is your memorandum our legal opinion justifying the reason for going into closed session all right then we will is there a I'm just gonna say we will now convene in closed session pursuant to Texas government code section five five one point oh seven one as it relates to agenda item 1a on the agenda for the Denton City Council dated Tuesday March the 28th 2017 caption for agenda item 1a not 1a oh 1a for the individual items yeah okay individual item for individual consideration which is considered option of ordinance accepting competitive proposals and awarding a contract for the city didn't employee health clinic and operation management services you have a quorum it is 430 p.m. we're moving on to agenda item 1 which is items for individual consideration agenda item 1a is considered option of ordinance accepting competitive proposals and awarding a contract of the city of didn't employee health clinic and operation management services and providing an effective date and we do have blue cards so we will take public comment before our motion and vote I didn't have another presentation prepared for you I know you'll relieve about that but so we glad to answer any more questions that might have come up any additional questions for staff all right thank you appreciate Scott we do have some cards and somehow the cards if I call your name for this agenda item and it was meant for another one just please correct me or if you vice versa so we'll go through these mr. Willie Hutzpah the agenda item 1a is he still here in the building do you know okay I'm gonna put him at the back yeah yeah just somebody needs to let him know we've started Chloe Wenzel if you if you'll come and state your name and address and your time will begin and Jennifer you will be keeping the time and and it'll be just a little ding or something like that okay and how many minutes is it three minutes okay name an address your time will begin um hi my name is Chloe Wenzel and my address is 105 heritage lane and didn't so I'm a student intern at the Denton Community Health Clinic which was up for bid for the city employee health clinic contract so I can just bring this up I have some concerns about the the accuracy of the proposal presentation for the care here clinic we we understand that the the cost slide was was not really accurate with comparing apples to apples and the cost of employees of the vendors were not accurate the the care here was much more and there was other vendors that were half of the cost of the care here that would be better yeah that's all I got okay thank you both be marsh Marsh Raleigh you want to come state your name and address in your time begin American a support oh yes yes and maybe it's more of a legal question and I sure I feel like we've been in this position before is there any legal or procedural issue with actual bidders for a request for proposal before us speaking to us during that item for individual consideration seems like we had that issue coming for us on previous bids that were being questioned by the applicant or by the people doing the proposed proposals and at this point at the in the process where you're the item is up for action and if they will choose to want to come up and speak they have that ability to do that it's what happens before them thank you thank you , thank you. My name is Phil Marsh Raleigh address 525 South Locust Suite 200 here in Denton. I'm Dr. Marsh Raleigh I'm not here to plug our clinic I am here to kind of discuss maybe what could be expected of a health clinic that we're going to spend good money good taxpayer money on for our area. I'd like to look at three areas quickly one is a robust electronic health record and what that means one is the importance of accessibility to a primary doctor and the other is the overall cost of health care and actually certified EHR is what the expectation is of our primary care in the US and the current EHR unless it 's changed in side views that last did not meet those standards that didn 't have the accessibility to data that we need and the ability for us to use the data in a usable fashion. In terms of accessibility having a call center is helpful but you're talking to a someone who doesn't know you a stranger so one of the ideas on what we do in primary care and family medicine is to have access to your provider after hours weekends holidays and to be able to get a meaningful intervention in terms of your overall care and guidance. Certainly we have individuals that I see in our practice and that only come to the clinic for HRA but that's not preventative health care and that's not continuity of care for chronic health conditions. It would be essential that we would decrease absenteeism by having good access after hours and probably limit some of our absenteeism on Fridays and Mondays that are very common in the area as we have heard. It's important that clinic providers have a good communication system with the emergency rooms the hospitals and specialists in the area in order to better communicate expedite care have more efficient care decrease complications. I had worked in the clinic in the past I was the first physician there and I did have some difficulties at the time and looking at some screening procedures that we needed for some diabetes chronic care management and having software that didn't allow me the ability to take care of those issues and in a meaningful way. I just got some text right now and one of our patients that had some difficulty with the quality of care that they 're being exposed to at times and the accessibility that they have as a result of that. Currently I've expressed some of my frustrations in the past with inadequate communication and and accessible software. All right the next speaker is Alice Macherelli. My name is Alice Macherelli 525 South Locust Denton Texas. I am here as a business leader who is also a healthcare provider and who has concerns about how healthcare services have been evaluated for this RFP. The cost of healthcare not solely dependent on the cost of primary healthcare services which is all that has been looked at. The National Association for Worksite Clinics stresses that looking at and decreasing hospital hospitalization days decreasing non primary care costs and decreasing the cost of emergency room and urgent care centers are essential to judging the successfulness of an on-site healthcare clinic. One of the issues that was brought up during the work session was the whether the vendors who submitted proposals understood that they were proposing to manage a healthcare clinic. The RFP was very clear and I think unless a vendor was an idiot would not have been proposing to manage the healthcare clinic in their RFP proposal. So that all bid ders should be considered as managers of that healthcare clinic. You may ask in our case and I'll put on the other hand just to clarify what I 'm saying is when we talk about our clinic and everybody's worried because we're a public clinic well we're also a business. We can have different business lines and managing employee healthcare clinics is a business line that we are launching to sustain the clinic. So not in this case we are approaching other employers. I also have concerns when the cost was presented as the cost savings in primary care and it was said again maybe I misunderstood that the cost included all of the costs for the managing the clinic. If you multiply 63.91 times the 8650 number of visits that were there it would come out to 549,275. Is that all that it costs to run that clinic? On this slide I also have that which is what the young lady was trying to present that we're not comparing apples and apples in your spreadsheet that you have. One of the examples is on the screen. My understanding if you look at Cerner and their bid and their summary they clearly say that there are no employee costs they are in their PEPM costs. Therefore this is the summary if you add the number of employees that is stipulated in the care here proposal which is now public entity that they would have one doctor 15 hours a week, two nurse practitioners for a total of 45 hours and three medical assistants. Considering that I multiplied the salaries that each vendor was proposing and that's the difference. All right thank you. Next speaker is Mr. Willie Hutsmith. Is he okay okay all right. If he comes back we'll get him on the next one. Mr. well I'm sorry Terry Thomas. Is there Terry Thomas and is this the right agenda item? Is there a it's a different one okay it's it's B it's the next one I think I'm sorry yeah there's there's sort of been some confusion here and I'm assuming Kevin Taladeca is also B all right. That's not y' all's mistake that's my mistake and then I Kyle Taylor is also B is that correct all right. Thank you. Okay there are no more cards wishing to speak on this agenda item. I do have a question for Mr. Payne if you don't mind just so I can make sure I understand what what the concerns have been or at least so the cost of the clinic forget patient visits and just what we're having to write them a check for at the end of the you know end of the year the total amount what did you say that was all in all employees all all rent. It's about three hundred and forty thousand or so for the P EPM fee that we pay because that's based on the number of employees so as we've had employees that cost goes up and about five hundred and sixty or so five hundred thirty five hundred sixty four salary supplies tests lab work all those things combined and so that would be the cost for like a year of operation basically. Okay so then the cost here I see on this slide and I'm gonna use the first column which is reflective of your slide originally which is the total cost per total cost per by city staff report okay but those costs that we're seeing there that's what they're saying this is where we're gonna charge you to manage this clinic and do the fees that we think are gonna be correct and the cost that we compared on that that slide was not including the salaries and the staff benefit piece of it that was the admin piece to run the clinic so that's that PEPM fee right and then the labs that are fairly common right the malpractice and I believe it was one of those things but yeah so the salaries that piece of it was not included in that because that is truly a pass-through cost to care here for their basically we get a bill every month that shows the number of hours that each provider work there the early rate and how much lab work was done everything else that's a pass-through and we felt like since those are things are really gonna be set by the market those are the things that we're gonna have to negotiate if we bring new providers in or you know year after year to keep providers there it is what the market tells us it's going to be and that's a a partnership between us and the vendor they come to us and say hey we would like to you know maybe change a nurse practitioner to another physician or a medical assistant to an RN for example and we would have that dialogue about the cost benefit of doing that and why we want to do those types of things and so those mid-year adjustments can affect that that piece of it the salaries and the benefits and everything else whereas the other things the PEPM is just going to be what it is and it's going to fluctuate based on our employees so we didn't really pull that in there it's in the not to exceed amount but it is in the piece that we were comparing when we look at the cost okay so I'm gonna make sure I understand last year let's say we're considering a contract for this year correct so last year or up till last year we this year we wrote them a total amount of what they provided in their last RFP plus then what you're saying to me is the cost of the salaries and the benefits of the employees in other words this 1.582265 no I'm sorry two million dollars for care here on the in this column the one that you had presented in your in your that's there's gonna be something added to that in the end that we have to pay them for things that you're like you talked about staffing employee benefits and things such as that correct that was truly just the PPM fee for the administrative cost the overhead their profit margin those frequently performed tests that we wanted to do so you know flu shots and strep tests and those types of things the cost of the HRA the health with assessment the medical malpractice and then it need one-time implementation fees were part of that process that was the cost evaluation that we looked at so then the savings amount the six hundred and twenty eight thousand dollars I think it was that you said that we're saving by not directing these people to private right is that based upon this 1.9 million or is that based upon adding the salary and the benefits of the employees on to that to get that savings right that's the full cost of managing the clinic from 2015 and so that's what that's based on that's evaluated on that total cost that's that's the full boat the the salaries and all that so and I'm not trying to belabor the point but this is so I'm trying to understand the process so when we send out an RFP and we're asking for these certain things but there's another major component that is going to be a cost that we I mean is it immaterial is it I mean how is that how is that not part of the RFP there's the total all-in cost to me I was I've been thinking this is a total all-in so help it just help me understand that the total all-in cost is what we proposed in the AIS and the agenda item for tonight for the total cost of it so when you see that that not to exceed amount that's everything sure in it sure but the evaluation because we looked at this there are a lot of variables obviously in the practitioners that we bring to us it's about the market that's available at the time yes you know maybe we can bring in a brand new provider out of medical school versus having to bring in a 30 year provider so that that that rate is going to be very different but that's indicative of what we 're trying to accomplish at the time that's happening and so that cost is going to be kind of that cost regardless of who the vendor is because it's not just the vendor coming in and telling us what we're going to pay this that may be the idea but once we start trying to recruit for that position kind of like other positions with the city that may change what happens or maybe we aren't finding a good medical assistant to fill a vacant position so we're looking at maybe bringing in an LVN or something on those lines and so that fluctuates more than those other costs that we could more clearly enumerate and kind of more objectively look at which is what we told you is what we've included in that cost evaluation so like to their point that was one of the challenges we had in trying to get this to an apples-to-apples comparison was because some people bid we're gonna bid everything under the PPM that includes everything and so it's very hard because their PPM would be much higher than everybody else's correct and so we had to send some communication back and forth so help us break that out so we can do an apples-to-apples comparison and so sort of may have said that but in the evaluation tool we actually got their breakdown by a PPM fee separating out the salaries separating out other things are like that okay all right okay so then in the agenda item where we talk about the $20 per employee PPM for an estimated energy cost of 38 6,325 for management and then 666 for salaries and supplies does that include also the lease is only a dollar right it but includes utilities I mean this is those are all those are pass-through costs to us that we're already paying for so they're fairly immaterial in the grand scheme of things okay so the five years is not to see over five million dollars so this 19, 1.9 million that's the five-year cost of just what you said all those components of that cost we're excluding the salaries and benefits on your chart is that okay I'm just trying to understand how the numbers are different yeah the chart became very long and very complex and trying to identify all the different factors we went to a value okay all right okay all right thank you yes Councilmember Brady's so on that comment so we add those two together the management costs and the salaries and it's nine it's an estimate like 952 325 per year is that that's what we're voting on that's the contract right right and then we added in a an escalator for increasing number of employees because that impacts the admin costs you know as we have more employees we're paying more $20 per employee per month and so we added in a factor for that increase over I got 2% increase and then a 3% potential increase to salaries if warranted by performance so that's in the not to exceed amount so if you just did the math of this multiplying that number times five it wouldn't come out exactly because we're allowing some increases for different things okay thank you so to follow up on that maybe I have a better understanding so the number here in the agenda item which is five hundred and sixty six thousand for salaries and supplies was that a constant number that we applied throughout each one of the proposals or did we just sort of tag that on once we decided in other words all these five proposals if we were to add this it all be constant right the same so it's still come out that all the costs would still come out the same if they had the same employees same supplies because those would be a variable that would be applied to anybody who was doing the contract for us you know we would apply those same variables to the cost of it now some of the providers did want escalators in their PPM cost so they anticipated a year to it would be more year three or four or five some didn't some held it you know constant and so that was factored into what you saw in the that one chart that was included in that but obviously not the increase in employees or salaries okay because that would be true of anybody who was doing the contract I guess I just want to make sure in my mind that the savings that we show is inclusive of everything the stuff that we see for the RFP proposed price and then also these salaries that we're adding it's all those costs together we still saving six hundred and twenty eight thousand dollars answer every year with the stewardship report you know care brings us they they show all the costs we've paid through them and they use that in their calculation of what their per visit per cost is okay all right sounds all very complicated okay all right okay I apologize that it is even even the president has found out that health care is complicated yeah I thought we can get out of this without a okay any other questions for mr. Payne all right we are on agenda item we've had all public comments no more questions for staff presentation chair would entertain any action as deemed appropriate by the council councilmember Gregory approval of item 1a of let me see if I can find it awarding the RFP 6198 to health care care here LLC okay we have a motion have a second I'll second councilmember Haw kins seconds we can I had just one other comment I would like to get just either an informal staff report or something about just the process and how you know the numbers work together and these additional costs that are added that aren't necessarily part of the RFP because of salaries I just want to understand this process a little bit better because I know that this was a my understanding is this is a one-year contract with the option of four one-year renewals am I correct in that and are these automatic renewals or these ones that the council has to take affirmative action on I left my computer at home so all the backups there I correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they would be as long as they are within the not to exceed amount we would be able to renew those year after year if that was our if that was the council's pleasure but would it come back for a vote next year for the council or is the council have to take a an affirmative action to not renew it which do we know which ones that which I'm assuming it would be that one that we'd have to bring it back to you to vote to not really yes okay so it always renews unless okay okay thank you now I apologize as I said my computer we have a motion in a second let's vote on the board I'll signify by raising your right hand all signify by raising or all those in opposed signify by like sign raising your right hand the motion carries five to one we have a going on to agenda item 1b consider adoption of an ordinance approving amendments to the term of the agreement adding baseline metrics adding a general termination clause and adding an appropriations clause to the management agreement between the city of Denton and the Dallas Entrepreneur Center yeah I need to step out oh and you're recusing yourself Councilmember Gregory's recusing himself from this item so we will wait until he leaves the premises before we okay do we have a staff presentation on this okay that's what I was gonna say I have a very short review presentation four slides one's a title slide if you don't need it because you 've already had two work sessions on this I'm happy to just stand for questions and skip the presentation if you have a slide that sort of gives the basics of the the just for the public's benefit baseline metrics and a general termination clause what are we what are we adding that is not in the current one that would be helpful just real quickly okay so the recommendations for amendments include requiring establishment of those baseline measurements for the number of events held and attendees visitors mentor sessions available and used and entrepreneurs assisted the baseline measurements then will be used to set future performance goals we're gonna change the term of the contract we'll change that wording to be from will be renewed annually to may be renewed annually the expiration date of the agreement will change from excuse me March 1 2017 to September 30th of 2017 will add a general 30-day written notice termination option and an appropriations clause and finally we're gonna be specifying remittance of the 10% of the collected membership fees directly to the city of Dunton and these are all the same things that y 'all have heard as far as recommendations in the prior to work sessions okay Councilmember Briggs so is the contract currently expired since the date is March I mean when we started it it wasn't but right it's past it's been it's been extended by a 30-day letter to the deck through the end of March so we're operating under a 30-day extension okay okay so the to establish baseline measurements for the number so have we established those that's what they're gonna be is the events held and the number of attendees there the visitors and mentor sessions that are available and used and the entrepreneurs assisted that's gonna be the baseline and then we'll use that to set performance goals after if you guys approve another agreement after this one expires we're trying to baseline since it's a first year of operations so that's the intention with those and I know that we talked about in our last meeting about some of the uses in there and were they consistent with the intent of the project and initiative how does what I'm seeing here address that because I think that was a concern if I remember correctly maybe concerns too strong of work was an observation of some that right what are we doing as far as tech related some of those were absolutely not tech related at all so last time we did a work session I presented to you some information that came from Stoke staff about their six month plan to right focus more on technology really boost the mentorship program in the area of technology entrepreneurship be focused on recruiting technology related companies so that was heard during the first work session they worked on a plan we brought that back to you all in the second work session and they they clearly understand what the council's intention is and just to touch on further evaluation we're not we're gonna be gathering this information to those though these things are not specified in the contract amendments we're gonna look at the occupancy rate the graduation rate of companies successfully working at Stoke but then moving on because they've been funded or had the other kind of success that they're looking for recruitment of tech sector members and business generation and growth and member satisfaction overall these are all things that city staff will be monitoring over the next six months and if you because this will come back before council prior to September 30th yes and if you could also work on trying to get your arms around how many jobs that you can say have been created by virtue of activity at Stoke and I know that's that's a hard one but I 'm I'm just trying to hone in on again accountability on the cost of this program and if our goal is to create tech jobs then let's let's try to see if we can come up with some matrix to show us in September this not just member satisfaction you know that's I call that soft information I 'd like to see hard information in the fall in terms of if we're gonna talk tech jobs let's talk tech jobs and see what is really coming up bubbling up from this operation okay thank you for bringing that up because we have you might recall from the last time we've done a member survey with the Stoke folks how many jobs how many employees do you have is one of those questions and we're gonna be distributing that to the larger Denton Tech community as well to try to get a good comparison between what's happening at Stoke and what 's happening in the community at large and that will will be doing that in April I will send the larger survey out and then we have the opportunity then to do it at subsequent points in time to judge changes but job creation and employment are a part of that survey and I know that you didn't have a high percentage of Stoke members who had completed the survey and I encourage you last time to really kind of chase that because I think that will really help you create that baseline for right now and then compare it going out in the future what where where we are and where we are in the future so thank you yes any other questions before we take public comment they can say where's the alt but I know where he is okay mr . Willie Hutzpah has filled out a card don't believe he's here oh thank you Caroline I'm sorry Terry Thomas I got the right one yes okay good right agenda again my apologies oh I've called it in the wrong agenda item so well I am Terry Thomas I'm a web developers you can tell by the hoodie I'm a tenant at Stoke Oh an address too and that'll start your time where's your what's your address 80 100 Clear River Lane okay and then okay so I'm not a public speaker but I'm gonna give this the best that I can I am a Silicon Valley transplant I worked in the tell the tech scene out there it startup environments and on the business development side I've had a career since then but after coming to Denton about three or four years ago now I wanted to reinvent myself back into technology and get back into that scene back into that mindset and I found a way to do that it was something that took it has will take always but a lot of iteration I needed a place to do that iteration meaning I had to sit there and practice and practice and practice and practice I needed a place to do that and although coffee shops are great that it's really hard to it's kind of weird to go over to somebody and say you know how do you do a query on a database you know they're trying to enjoy their coffee doing their own work so I needed a place that I could collaborate with people who are doing kind of the same thing and Denton didn't really have that to offer when I graduated from the retraining until a month later and I signed up right away I've been in a tenant over there ever since it's given me the opportunity to to network and collaborate with other people that have a similar mindset and eventually prepare me for a job here in Denton which is amazing because I really was planning on having to go outside of Denton and eventually probably move outside of Denton because I don't like to commute but I was able to network with some people within or through Stoke that eventually did lead to a job so I'm very happy about that there is a tech scene here I want to stick around and be able to help do my part to help it grow it takes time though I don't know what else I can say about that what else did I mention I'm not a public speaker anyway I think I'm gonna go ahead and leave it at that. Thank you very much appreciate it thank you Kevin Tadlacka I'm sure I didn't get that right so you're gonna you're gonna correct me I'm sure so thank you Tadlacka okay name and address please my name is Kevin Tadl acka and I live at 1409 Marble Cove Lane so I as you guys continue to evaluate and partner with Stoke as part of the economic development initiatives of this city I wanted to tell you a little bit about myself and hope to represent a growing demographic in the US workforce and I believe a very important one and that's specifically remote workers or telecommuters and I'll be speaking specifically from remote workers working in the tech industry in general so I work in the mobile app industry I'm a data engineer and app developer that manages business intelligence and big data systems for a few app companies based out of Austin Texas and I love my job I love working remotely I work entirely remotely so that means I never go into the office every day I get to choose where I work and it typically just needs to have power and internet and that's all I need and I use that freedom to live and work in places like Austin for a few years in Nashville as well and then about a year ago my wife and I moved here to Denton and I really falling in love with the city and with the community it's a it has a real small town close-knit feel but it has big city amenities and there is a really neat energy in the tech scene here it really feels like you get to be a part of something formational and really make a difference and a huge factor of the development of my this this affection for the city has been Stoke so I could choose to work from home every day and in fact did for several months after I moved here and was used to that but I had heard about Stoke opening and on day one I rolled over there and became a dedicated member and and I've really enjoyed it it's given me a community it allows me to keep my finger on the pulse of the city because the city is involved with Stoke which I really greatly appreciate because as a newcomer to Denton that's really how I've gotten into the community and seeing what events are going on and gotten to take part in those because I hear about them through people at Stoke like Terry said just the tech support you get web any sort of software developments difficult to do in a bubble and you need people to help you out with problems that you you run into so I'm likely not going to an open off open an office and hire 50 people here in Denton I'll probably always work remote but I wanted to speak a little bit about what I think is a really important demographic and why it's important to attract people like me remote workers in general to the city and some thoughts or stats on that is well I guess the workforce is transitioning to that to that whether or not didn't is prepared to capitalize on it the latest data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics for 2015 said that 24% of them the employed people did some or all of their work at home in 2015 that was led by workers in management business and financial operations which came in at 37.8% was closely followed by professional related occupations which would be your tech industry fields at thirty four point six percent these are both growing these are all growing under my personal experience in the experience of a number of my peers remote workers tend to reinvest the time and money that they save and comm uting and spending you'd otherwise spent on gas or thank you for your time thank you appreciate that next speaker will be Kyle Taylor state your name and address and your time will begin afternoon counsel my name is Kyle Taylor live at 1331 the rate of court so last week I just got back from a trip from Boulder if you've ever heard of Boulder it's great city it's similar to Dent on 110,000 people it's a college town it's a you know it's very pedestrian bicycle friendly and it's definitely growing town it has a booming downtown if you've ever been to Pearl Street and been to Boulder so what people might not know is that Boulder is actually really large tech community and it didn't just become a large tech community overnight there are many head headquarters for you know big startups there there's tech stars which is a big VC firm that invest s in companies that come through Boulder you know you can find companies that receive anywhere between 1.5 to 27 million dollars in funding for example Google just decided to open an office there in 2015 they'll be hosting about I think 1,500 employees and IBM also has a very large office there but of course they didn't just move there because they found a big slot of land those open they liked it because actually IBM is a low-risk community to live in and you know there's no you know I guess like fire hazard there as well anyways so I'm mostly known for my role as a president Tecmo and a leading advocate for open didn't but that doesn't pay the bills I don't make any money from Tecmo I don't make any money from open didn't I work for a web development agency in Dallas called level 10 interactive I've been there for about five years we do anywhere between one to two million dollars in revenue a year and we have just under ten employees we build large triple projects which if you don't know what Drupal is it's really popular for city governments and Whitehouse.gov you might have heard of it it's also built on Drupal I work remotely in Denton because I choose to work remotely didn't also because I really hate 35 the with our company we're trying to grow our development team right now we also partner with an agency in San Diego and working remotely it has allowed us opportunity to retrieve developers from anywhere we would like now if we have we have a sales team in San Diego a production team in Dallas and engineering team in Denton it doesn't matter as long as the culture is fit we are starting internship program at Stoke starting June we'll have three interns over eight weeks and we'll pull them from UNT or TW without Stoke we wouldn't really have a place to have that program but that's not really metric that you can measure let's see what else yeah so really we want to I think Stoke is a great opportunity to kind of point the community in direction that we want to build right anyone can move to Boulder you can go visit Boulder see how great it is and then decide to move there and that's easy that's the easy choice it's really hard to build that community where you want to live so you know we really want to encourage people to move here and pay property taxes but that's not a metric or accounting so we have a question I'll go to Councilmember Braggs and then Councilmember Washington. Are those paid internships? Yes. Do the ten employees live and work in Denton? Actually that 's ten including contractors five or six of them work in Dallas there's one in San Diego and me up here and then there's a few others so. So currently you 're the only one at Stoke? Mm-hmm from my company yeah which in addition to like we I wouldn't open an office inside of Stoke because I don't need to but if we if I can run this internship program and we can build an engineering team here then maybe we will open a remote office in Denton if we can have the people to support it. Thank you. Sure. Thank you appreciate it. Those are all the cards that I have for this agenda item so we've had staff presentation and public comment. Chair would entertain action on this agenda item. Councilmember Hawkins. I move approval of item 1B. We have a motion Councilmember Mayer-Prince Pro Tem Roden. Second. We have a motion and a second. All in favor please signify by raising your right hand. All opposed by like sign. Measure passes four to one. All right thank you. All right we'll go on to agenda item C which is consider adoption of an ordinance approving a city sponsorship in amount of not to exceed $154,000 of in-kind services and resources for the Denton Arts and Jazz Festival. Oh I thought somebody did he go get him. Just give us just a sec so Dalton can come back. I want counsel to know that in spite of the fact that the topic today is Arts and Jazz Fest I am not scheduled for any musical presentations today. Okay. Thank you. Okay you ready to rock and roll. All right I'm here to present the request from Arts and Jazz Fest for city sponsorship this year. This is the same thing that we do every year. The one exception is in years past council has approved this on the consent agenda. As a result of council request the one change that we've made to our co-sponsorship agreement is that we added line number five that says the event organizer assumes all liability for damages done to city property whatever the cause while hosting this event and agrees to reimburse the city for reparations within 30 days of notice or invoice. That's the only significant change to this document again that came at the request of council. So a question regarding that when we had the big rain event I think it was two years ago. Yes sir. That created quite a bit of damage because it's a rain or shine event. Yes sir. How much did it cost us to repair? We were in the neighborhood of fifty to sixty thousand dollars to go back and fix the park. And does the Festival Foundation understand that cost? Yes they do. And do you know if they either have an insurance policy or a bond or they have enough cash reserves that they can cover that? Well I happen to know in this case that there are cash reserves for the Arts and Jazz Fest for their Festival Foundation because we see their reports as part of their sponsorship agreement. Okay thanks . Emerson this is above and beyond what we allocate from the Hotel Motel tax fund. That is correct. To Arts and Jazz. And do we know what that amount is? I think it's close to about a hundred or something. Yeah yeah I don 't have my computer so. But anyway I just wanted to make sure that we understood that this is in addition to, so that's sort of the hard money from Hotel Motel. This is in kind meaning we've got personnel, park service, fire personnel, police personnel that we pay that are there at that event. Yes sir and then the the there we donate or they receive at no charge the use of the Civic Center, Senior Center, the park itself all of which have rental fees that would normally be attached to them. Okay. And just as a note this this line will now be attached to all special events that take place in parks. Okay not just this event, it's not just limited to this. That is correct. Alright fantastic. Any other questions for staff? Mayor Pro Tem? Has the Arts and Jazz Fest have they agreed to these terms? I mean I know we haven't approved this yet and handed this to them for their signature but in conversations with them is. They have been made aware of this yes. But I guess my question is. That's a very good answer. So we'll find out I guess. Yeah at the risk of sounding like a smart aleck have you all received phone calls from them? Okay so they're made aware okay and understand that we're discussing this here tonight. Yes sir. My other question is more of a legal question and I'm kind of we see some pretty extensive legal agreements as it relates to binding us with folks that we're working with . This is like a bullet point list with pretty informal language seemingly. Is that does this meet legal muster that if there's a $50,000 charge we're trying to recoup that this is going to stand? Yes it just depends. I mean some contracts more complex you're going to see the document. Others this is more simple. It's mostly an in-kind contribution that you're making and then they're returning some promises in exchange for that including re imbursing you. This would be sufficient for us to go forward. That's all I need to hear and I guess a question for you. I know when we were talking about this over the last couple years and different ideas were floated discussions of even does the does the city have a trigger event in which we'll call things off because of rain events or things like that and I don't know where we came down on that or do we have policies in place regarding vehicles being driven? I remember that next morning after all that rain I saw some vehicle driving I was just pulling my hair out thinking this is just causing more damage. Have there been other controls in place along those lines that we feel can maybe help prevent some things in the future? One of the things that the park staff came up with last year was very strongly limiting where traffic would flow as the vendors and the artists set up and left the park almost a roadway through the park as opposed to a free-for-all. That greatly reduced now the weather event was nothing like it was the prior year but it still greatly reduced the damage in the park. Great. Any other questions? Just so that I can be true to the process we do have a blue card wishing to speak. Mr. Willie Hutspeth I don't know I don't see Mr. Hutspeth in attendance so no public comment on this particular item. Councilmember Wasley. I'd like to make a motion to approve item 1C. We have a motion. Councilmember Pro Tem Brodin. Second. We have a motion and second for agenda item 1C. All in favor please raise your right hand. All opposed by like sign. Motion carries six to zero. Thank you. Moving on to concluding items. Concluding items. Yes Councilmember. I do thank you. So first I want to thank staff because they work so hard on this. It's the employee benefit book that came to all of us and very comprehensive. Lots of time spent. It was just very very helpful as a council member to have this information. So I just want staff to know how much I appreciate all the hard work and time that they spent on this. I also wanted to say that the council committee met to talk about vacation time and sick time but we weren't able to really talk about the whole book because our purview was limited to vacation time and sick time and it'd be nice to meet one more time and kind of take a look at all the stuff that the staff you know has put together. So I would ask that a resolution be prepared for council to discuss next week on opening up the purview of that committee to be able to talk about whatever staff brought forward in our benefits book. Okay and yes and just I want to remind that we are in concluding items so we have to you know make sure our discussion is not outside of posting but from what you 're asking there will be an opportunity if there's a resolution drafted to where council will be able to talk about the merits of that. I just say that I don't know what so yes go ahead. Okay from time to time I like to uplift our group with literature and I ran across a poem from the typewriter rode o folks that do poems but on demand and this one is titled never read the comments and unfortunately some of us do especially when there's an article in our local daily newspaper and we want to see what what the comments are but apparently well here's the point never read the comments. This is an interesting article you think I will read it you think it was interesting you think did other people also think it was interesting you think so you do the thing you should never do you scroll down your curiosity betraying you and afterwards you feel dirty sullied worried for mankind you've forgotten the interesting article you forgotten your curiosity because your brain your soul is now a blackened a shell never read the comments you think by God I will remember. All right good thank you any other concluding items councilmember Briggs. So there's been a lot of discussion about the minimum square footage that we have in our code of being 900 square feet and during the tiny house talks and I know that that has come up several times in council but I've never really seen it in a conversation about reducing that or what it would take or you know so I'm just looking for either a work session or staff update on the minimum squirt footage of homes and if there somebody did want to build a tiny home what if it was allowed or what they would need to do in the city. Great any others? All right seeing none we will stand adjourned at 525. you