Apr 05, 2016 City Council on 2016-04-05 2:00 PM

Good afternoon. Wanted to welcome everybody to this Denton City Council meeting Tuesday, April the 5th, 2016 at 2.03. And this is our work session. And we'll have a regular session at 6.30. First agenda item is citizen comments on consent agenda items. Seeing none. Move on to agenda item number two, request for clarification of agenda items listed on the agenda for April the 5th, 2016. Okay sure. First of all on item 4D, note that the city attorney has provided you with a substitute ordinance there. There was a slight error I think in the posting and this is a correction for that item on 4D. Then I'd mention also public hearings 6A, which is a continued public hearing. When you get to that item tonight, we would recommend that 's a continued public hearing that we go into the public hearing, but the applicant has asked that that case be withdrawn. That's the overlay on Fry Street. The applicant has asked that case be withdrawn. And then on item 6F, which is the annexation public hearings, we don't plan a presentation on those public hearings and I think we'll have some discussion in closed session about that. But unless Anita, you had something to add to that at this point? I would just add- For the benefit of the public, we do have non-annexation agreements on all eight of the reference properties. We have noticed this as a public hearing, however, and so for the benefit of the public, who has been noticed, we will have the public hearing. But going forward, since we have the non-annexation agreements, we will not be reading annexation ordinances on these eight. Okay. And then I understand something about consent CC through JJ , which is- Which are the non-annexation agreements. We're going to pull all of those items and take them individually. Okay. All right. CC through JJ. Well, isn't- Yes. Isn't there one on BB to a non-annexation agreement or are we just going to CC? That was one of your questions? Okay. Pull them all from BB? Okay. All right. Any other- Yes, Council Member Johnson. I don't necessarily want clarification on this, but on item E, on consent, the Summer Food Service Program with Denton Independent School District, I just would like to highlight once again here's another item where the city and the school district are working together on something for the betterment of the community and just to highlight the great working relationship that we have with the school district many cities don't enjoy, I think that's worth highlighting. So whether we want to pull it and make a statement in the regular meeting or I'm fine with just highlighting that here for the record. Okay. I think it's important to continue to build on that partnership that's so good. Okay. Great. Yes, Council Member Briggs. Are we going to discuss item H or pull it? We all, council got a letter of appeal from another company regarding this bid and I didn't know if we were supposed to discuss that or if it had been settled. H? No. You're talking about- Is that a different thing? Is that not the Scarab International Composting Machine? Is that not in regards to that? No. Is that correct, Bill? Are you- Okay. I just saw compost and I saw compost here in the appeal and I assumed they were together and I was just wondering to make sure if that was something we needed to talk about. It's okay, Mayor. Let me ask Elton if he can address that. Sure. Perhaps he can clarify it for us. Okay. That would be good. Thank you. This is Elton Brock, our procurement manager. Thank you. Hi. I'm Elton Brock, George, council members and Mayor. The machine that was brought into question with the notice to council, actually we had three quotes that were received through cooperative purchasing agreements, through HGAC, Bob Board, and so Texas Government Code 271 allows the city to use that method, one of those cooperatives. And one of the vendors that actually did the complaining was the highest price vendor. They were 13% higher than the vendor with the lowest price machine. So Elton, based on that, the recommendation would not change? The recommendation would not change because it was just absolutely a lot higher. It was 500 and something thousand versus 463 or something like that. So these are just quotes that were obtained through cooperative agreements. So we asked for pricing to compare what best value is in regards to those machines. And certainly the department, if the department felt like the machine was that much superior in functionality, they would have written a best value statement and brought it here to council recommending something that was higher. Okay. I just wanted to address the letter that we received. Thank you. Thanks. Yes, Council Member Wasney. On agenda item F, it talks about the tax incentives for developers. And there's a portion in there that says 25% of employees are to be hired who live in Denton. So my question is how do we check up on that? And has it ever been considered to increase that 25% or what thought process went into getting to the 25%? Thank you, Mayor, I'd like to ask Caroline Booth if she could address that. And in my understanding is that we're asking that the current policy be continued for the time being and that there may be, but I don't know if that would be an option or a consideration for change. But if you could address the specific question, Caroline. Certainly. Council Member Wasney, I appreciate you bringing that up. It's a good point. What we're doing, like George said, is readopting the existing policy. And the item that you mentioned in the policy is an additional consideration, which we ask companies to review that list and identify if they meet any of those additional considerations for us to judge the quality and the benefits of the project for Denton. So that is something, if a company does indicate that they intend to hire 25% or more, we do have methods to verify that with them, both in the screening process and then after the incentive is granted, we do ask them to verify that annually before payments are made. So if that's something that when we bring back the rev isions to the policy to the council later on in coming months, if you would like for us to review that and bring some different options to you, we can do that. Thank you. You're welcome. I have a question. This topic has come up recently. So that's an additional consideration, almost like a, so here's all the requirements. Correct. Here's additional consideration that if you're willing to do some of these things, that might help us as we evaluate those requirements, right? Yes, that's right. Probably a legal question, but is it legal to require a company to have a certain percentage of their employees to reside in a given geographical area, city, state, whatever? Sure, as a condition of granting the incentive. Sure is. Okay. So that might be something that we want to bring up when we look at this thing down the road of overall revision. I think that would have some benefit. Follow up on that. Do we have anybody that's taken that part of that? Do we have any companies out there that have received an additional compensation for incentive due to that factor? We do have companies who have listed that among their additional factors, and that's taken holistically in the decision, along with other things that they would list. And what you can do, what the policy states is that each additional factor can allow for an additional 5% on the incentive percentage. And so, yes, there have been companies who have used that in the calculation of the percentage of incentive that could be available to them. Okay, so what I heard you say was we do have some incentives that we have granted that they received that additional 5% if they were to do this 25 % or more. And so do we have a protocol or a process on some type of interval to verify that? We do. If that's a condition that's written into their agreement as you must invest this much capital investment, you will employ this many people, you will employ this many of them from Denton, we do go back and verify that. If you are looking for specific agreements that have that, I would have to get back to you on it. I don't have those at the top of my mind right now. Okay. And so I want to make sure I understand exactly when these additional factors come into play. So you say if it's written into the agreement, the actual incentive agreement that applies specifically to that company, you will do XXX and X, and let's say this is one of them, 25% employees. Can they receive the benefit of that extra 5% if they put down that we're going to do this? Can they receive the benefit of that without it being a condition in the agreement? I think let me take this back to the way that we review incentive applications and bring them before both the EDP board and the council for their decisions. So when we analyze a project and bring it before EDP and then council, we present the range of options that are available in terms of what the company qualifies for under the policy for incentives. So it could be, there's a base amount based on their capital investment, and that equates to a certain percentage and a certain length of time. Where these additional factors come into play is that can increase the percentage amount and/or the length of time of the incentive that they can receive. So we present those options to you. Sort of there's a base option and then there are options that are increased based on those additional factors. So that's what helps the council make decisions about the percentage and the length, is the additional factors. But if you want, if council chooses to include in the incentive agreement as a condition of receiving the incentive, this 25% of local employment, then that can be put into the agreement. And I might be wrong about this, Amy, but once that's written in there, if that condition isn't met and we verify it, I don't know exactly how the decrease is made in what the company would receive. Does that make sense? I don't know if it's a, you don't receive any of your incentive because you didn't meet all your thresholds or you can receive a percentage. I think Caroline is right that there's a difference between determining what a company will qualify for and those additional considerations are used to calculate what they're qualified for. Whether they end up in the incentive agreement as a condition of receiving the incentive is handled on a case by case basis. And not all of the things that make them qualify for a certain amount or all the considerations are then written into an agreement. It just depends on exactly what the direction we typically receive from EDP and council on the specific conditions and how those are measured. Now when something is written as a condition, for example, what we see most often written in as a condition is a certain number of jobs at a certain wage. And if that threshold is not met, we have a reduction of the incentive based on the, it's pro-rated based on what percentage they did meet. Honestly, I cannot think of an incentive agreement where we 've written in the 25% employed by Denton residents as a condition of the incentive agreement. It has been a factor that we've utilized in analyzing it, but I don't think we've ever used it as a specific condition whereby then we've required a company to go back and verify that. >> Okay. Okay, so what I heard you say was that we've got these additional 5%. Let's take the employment for instance. Oh, it's basis 25% and we're going to employ 25% of our employees are going to be from Denton. Oh, so you could qualify for a 30% incentive, X amount of years. Great. So the city passes it, council passes it, but in the incentive agreement itself, that condition of that additional factor is not a specific term in the incentive contract. >> Historically that is true that it does not always translate directly into a condition. A good example of that is a record of service within the community. That is an additional consideration if a company is a good corporate citizen within the community if what they typically do is demonstrate that at the time of the application and that is their verification. That is how they qualify for the consent. >> Yeah, I've probably taken this way off where it needed to be because this is obviously a discussion we can have when we come back to review. But anyway, did I see any hands over here? >> Not on this one. >> Do what? >> Not on this one. >> Oh, oh. Are you on this one or are you on a different one? >> I'm on this one. >> Okay, yes, go ahead, I'm sorry. >> So just to bring us back and to clarify exactly what we 're approving tonight, in the backup it just includes these three kind of minor changes. >> Yes. >> Including the two new seats that we've already added, updating the census track and then declaring effective dates accordingly. So it does mention though that this is a requirement every two years to bring this back. And so when I'm gathering from the AIS, and correct me if I 'm wrong, that we're fixing these changes to get it amended, but that there's a longer conversation in place currently that will result in a more robust overview of the entire policy, is that right? >> That is right. >> Within this year or what are we talking about in terms of? >> Yes, within this year. >> Okay. Yeah, I mean, I think given a couple of high profile issues as of late, there's been a lot of interest in this topic in the community. And to be candid, a lot of misunderstanding of kind of our policy or difference between incentives or reimbursements and things like that. So just a cue, I guess, to the agenda committee. I mean, I think before it goes too down, the staff making recommendations, I think there's a lot of interest perhaps even our council providing some direction or at least having a conversation that this might be worth a work session prior to that point. >> Sure. >> Is that all? >> Okay, I see no other questions. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Consent agenda? Yes. >> On I and J together, it's an emergency repair of a 27 inch water main and then on J it's emergency replacement. Is there any policy in place when there's an emergency that it still needs to be voted on? >> You know, if there's an emergency, I would hope that staff or management could make that call. But I know the dollar amount there is over where we need to vote on it. >> Generally, if it's something that's ratifying, generally this is ratifying a decision that was made, but our practice has always been to bring those emergency measures back to council because oftentimes they don't include necessarily taking bids in the same fashion as we might otherwise if we weren't facing the emergency. And the amount that's over the amount of the city manager's authority needs to come back even though it was -- >> So did this already happen? >> Yes. Yeah. Tim, I think Mr. Fisher can address specifically the status of both of these projects, but they have both occurred, I think, or are under contract. >> The repair to the 27 was already done for the water line . And then part of the reason that happened is when they were getting into the repair, things got complicated, so they had to do the line stop. And that required a cost and a special vendor. The roof on the tank happened as a result of a discovery of a contract we had to paint the tank. And we had issues with the roof, so we wanted to expedite that. That is still under construction, but it's under contract. >> I just wanted to make sure that this wasn't still a problem and you were waiting for us to vote on it so we could fix it. >> No. And that's the purpose of declaring an emergency. It allows us some executive authority to pursue resolving the problem, and then this is a follow-up measure to gain the necessary approvals. >> Well, I hope it passes then. So do we. >> I hope so, too. >> May I approach you? >> On the roof, I was at a funeral yesterday at Highland Baptist Church, and I saw that -- what the heck? At first I thought it was a flying saucer that had landed in McKenna Park. And much to my disappointment, it wasn't. But what was the problem? >> The tank was built in 1951, so it was 65 years old. >> Hey, hey. 15 -- the early 50s were very good years. >> I understand. I was born then, too. >> Don't use a little word there. >> And the supporting rafter system was in a state where it was non-referable. And so removal and replacement was really the only available solution. And so we thought we did a pretty good job of getting some pricing, because we actually got, I think, four or five quotes on that. >> Yes. Councilman Wasney. >> Okay. This is on Consent Agenda Item S, and it's a $10 million concrete contract. And I understand that what we're talking about today is just adding on 475,000 to the $10 million. But my underlying question is there's talk of an RFP versus -- I read through a lot of the exhibits, and Exhibit 2, Exhibit A talked about automatically renews. And so my question with something that's this big, $10 million, just a little staff background on is this an RFP each time? Is it automatically renewed each time? And if it's automatically renewed, I'm just curious, how long has this company had this contract? >> Let me ask Hamilton to address the question. Mr. Brock, thank you again. >> The contract was bid out and has been bid out for several years. Floyd Smith's been doing business with the City of Denton for 40 plus years. This last time was about two years ago. We took it out through an RFP process. Floyd Smith responded. We brought it to council to approve it for that total amount. And it's over a three-year period. It's a one-year contract with two options for renewal. And so at the end of that one-year period, it's automatically renewed unless either party does not agree. And so any expenditure over $250,000 is brought here for city council to approve. Any of those expenditures less than that through that contract are approved with just a purchase order. >> And so my second question, how long has this company had this contract? >> This contract has been about a year and a half in existence. Prior to that, it was about three years. So every time that we put that out for bid, Floyd Smith responds. So they have the best pricing. >> So they've had this contract for about five years. >> They've done the concrete work for the City of Denton for 43 or 4 years is what they told me this morning. >> Okay. Thank you. >> I have a question to sort of piggyback on that. And I think it will be in that posting. If not, rattle your paper. Received a report, and this probably isn't for you. Received a report or some comments about the different types of projects that this company performs as far as sidewalk repair, curb repair, things such as that. And that we have a pretty big backlog of these types of repairs. And as far as numerically something, 90 something, and then time frame is, I can't remember what it was, yeah, 18 months or something like that. So I guess when we're increasing the price or the contract amount, I guess I would like some information. I don't have an issue with this, but as I sent in the email , I'd like to get some information on why do we have such a backlog, who sets the priorities of what gets done first, and if we need to, and if this company can hire some additional people to cure that backlog within the contract amount, I certainly would want to encourage that because when I saw those numbers, I was a little surprised because they have had the contract for over 40 years, and to have 90 something projects behind, even though there 's some others that have taken priority, sometimes if you got to-- I mean, we've asked contractors before, can you work all night? We're willing to pay extra on road projects. But I just would like to have a little bit tighter examination of-- Yeah, I think it'd be good if we could get you a more detailed report on that rather than trying to answer that. No, no, that's fine. I just wanted to bring it up because we were talking about this and the increase in the amounts. Any other questions for-- oh, we'll go to Mr. Councilmember Johnson. I don't know the detail and I'm not trying to get in the weeds on every little thing, but if we've got that much of a backlog, my dad's in the concrete business. Sometimes jobs are so big, they might have three suppliers working on one job at the same time just because of the volume. So if we have that big of a backlog and the funding is already in place for it, then maybe we consider multiple vendors to do multiple projects and get that backlog done faster. I'm not trying to get in people's business with the weeds or whatever, but meaning if there was some policy that would need to be or some direction given from council in order to increase the speed at which the backlog is getting run through, I'd love to see that come before us. Yeah. All right. Councilmember Rhoad. Thank you, Mayor. This relates to just item six-- I think it's six. Which one? It's one of the public-- it's the first public hearing. And this is perhaps the third time that I recall this being posted with a qualifier in the posting saying the applicants desired that we not consider it or it's being pooled or something like that. Legally, why is it that we continue to post it? If it's being requested to be pooled, could it just not go away until it's ready to be put back up? This is posted because we're looking at two different issues. When we post a public hearing, it's for the benefit of the public to come forward and comment on the item. It's not for the developer necessarily to come forward, although they do. But we've posted this for the public, so we need to go ahead and have the public hearing. I doubt there's going to be anyone who's going to be very interested since it's being withdrawn. But to honor the public and the fact that they have a right to comment on this issue, we need to give them that opportunity. And we post it as being withdrawn because certainly we don 't want to act on it. The applicant is withdrawing the issue, so it would require no action. So in the past, I think our-- correct me if I'm wrong. The way we've treated this is just not-- I think even called it. I think we've just made an announcement that it's been withdrawn from the agenda and not even had a public hearing. The reason I ask is because there's a lot of interest in this particular project. And I think every time we kind of put it back up there, there's this kind of chicken little effect of are we going to be discussing it this week, are we going to be discussing it? And I think our desire is to have the public kind of focus on when that is going to actually be discussed. So if each time it's posted, but with the qualifier in the posting that the applicant has no interest in us considering that, can we just remove it until it's ready to be put forward? I'm just trying to avoid confusion for the public because this is an item of interest. Well, of course, the council has by their prior action continued it to this date certain, which means it goes on the agenda. Oh, we have. Because the council directed it to go on the agenda. Yes, sir. OK. Thank you. Well, we can remedy that this time. OK. Any other clarifications on consent agenda items? All right. We'll go into work session agenda item three work session reports three a receive a report hold discussion to give staff direction regarding a proposed citywide sample tree inventory and tree canopy analysis. Thank you, Mayor. I'm going to ask Lauren Barker, who is our KDB guru manager . KDB program manager. Yes, sir. Thank you. I think she would present this item for Council's consideration and discussion. Thank you, Lauren. Well, the question is in the organizational chart, is guru or manager at a higher level? It's higher than a manager. Oh, well, I think we need to move her to guru then. It's higher than an ACM. Thank you, Councilman. Well, good afternoon, Mayor, Council, Mr. City Manager. I'm here today on behalf of Keep Denton Beautiful to talk to you about moving forward with an effort to obtain updated information on the state of Denton 's trees, our tree canopy. We are fresh on the heels of launching the new Denton Tree Initiative, which many of you may have heard about. This is a partnership effort between Keep Denton Beautiful and the city to plant 12,000 trees in Denton over the next three years. This initiative is funded through the Tree Mitigation Fund through the city, and it's a direct result of the leadership of our Council and of the Keep Denton Beautiful Board of Directors that this whole initiative is really in place. By approving this initiative and the six new programs that comprise it, you have ensured that Denton continues to be a leader in the areas of tree care and tree preservation, community forestry, everything related to trees, basically. But the groundwork, I want to tell you just a little story and then I'll get started with the slides. The groundwork for Denton's leadership in the area of community forestry actually started at least 25 years ago when my predecessor and the former director of Keep Denton Beautiful, Cecile Carson, sat down with John Cooper and Tom Harpool, both leaders in our community, to draft up the application that first earned Denton its Tree City USA status. Coincidentally tonight, we will celebrate 25 years, our silver anniversary. It's a pretty big milestone as a Tree City USA. We are one of the longest running, we're in the top 10 longest running group of tree cities in the state of Texas, so it's quite an accomplishment. And I'm sharing all of this with you because really the groundwork has been laid for us to be leaders in this area as a city. We're now reaching another critical point in our city's history when we really need to arm ourselves with more data and more knowledge to help ensure that the decisions that we make have a positive impact on those who come after us. So the groundwork has already been laid. Today I'm asking for your help to help continue this legacy . My presentation is pretty short, it's just 15 slides. I'll breeze through them pretty quickly. I want to leave plenty of time for questions. I know you probably have them. During my time I'll give you the why behind this project, the details of the project itself, the estimated schedule and cost, and really finally discuss how this data could be used. There are a multitude of uses that can be derived from a tree inventory or a canopy analysis study. And I will define all those terms for you in a second. So I'm going to start with the why. Have you heard of this TED Talk? Start with why. Simon Sinek. The idea is that we begin with the purpose behind what we 're doing rather than the what of what we actually do. I like this a lot because really we're not talking about what we do or how we do it, but the true reason behind it. First and foremost, this project, the why, is a direct result of requests from individual council members and from the citizens of our community. Numerous citizens of Contact to Keep Denton Beautiful have contacted the city to express a desire to update the data on Denton's trees and urban forest. So this is what initiated our investigation at Keep Denton Beautiful into how we could most effectively and economically get this information for the city. The other why behind all of this is our very real need for data and the sort of analysis that a tree inventory and a tree canopy study can provide. The most recent data that we have is from a 2010 study completed by faculty and students of the UNT Geography Department. In this study looked at one key attribute of Denton's urban forest and that is percentage of canopy cover. Canopy cover percent is frequently used in the forestry field as a measure, a basic measure of canopy health. Typically speaking, the higher the percentage number, the better and the more benefits that can be derived for the community. There are national standards that are set by leading forest ry organizations such as the American Forest Organization. Most of the Mississippi, we're looking at a standard of 25 to 30 percent. So Denton does have some prairie land. I know that that's a question that's come up in personal conversations that I've had with citizens and we've seen some traffic on our Facebook page referencing this. If you look at the map here, the westernmost side there kind of where Robeson Ranch falls, that is definitely prairie ecosystem, but pretty much the rest of it is cross timbers forest. So those are going to be your post oak trees, live oak trees, blackjack oaks, and Denton is really pretty heavily forested in that sense and you can sort of see the pattern there how it lines out. Yes sir. Question. And it's just sort of dawn on me as you're talking because the canopy coverage takes into account in the formula the entire square miles of the city limits, correct? That's correct. It's city wide. Well, oh and city wide when I think of... Plus ETJ in this particular study. Okay plus ETJ. In night in... 2010. That was the entire city plus ETJ. Because when I just look at the map and I see, okay when I think of Denton, I think of the loop. See how the loop's going around. Then you see I-35 coming in shooting down to Dallas. You've got obviously a lot of development south of that. But when you look west and sort of northwest where it's much less dense. Right. That factors in to this tree canopy coverage so it'd be very... Because it is an average canopy cover. It is an average canopy cover. So you're correct. That factors in. So it would be interesting if they could... Because I think it skews it. And I come to this conclusion based upon the talk from the chief yesterday talking about how many square miles we have and how many fire stations there are. Because we've got so much undeveloped land that it would be nice to know well what we consider the city. What's the canopy coverage in that area? And bifurcate it because it gives us... Sort of a... Factor all that in as one number gives an unrealistic sort of I think characterization because it's not developed. What you're touching on is definitely accurate and it's my next point. Okay. The limitations to canopy cover as a measure of tree health and of the urban forest in general. So you are correct. By factoring in those westernmost areas into that average canopy cover percent, we could potentially skew that data and you're not necessarily getting an accurate picture of what the true... It doesn't delve into some of the details as well that a more in-depth study could get. So there are lots of different studies methods out there. I'm sorry. Did someone else have a question? No. Go ahead, Kevin. I'm sorry. I was just going to add to that because it's an interesting discussion. I'd be interested to hear more of what you have to say. But the thing that typically is pointed to as the reason for a lowering of that percentage is clear cutting because of new development. And so if you see already naturally a certain portion of your city that is undeveloped, meaning it hasn't seen that development potential yet and yet has very little tree coverage, that also helps with that thinking of data. Because if you were to say what part of our city is developed and then what's the percentage there, especially as this whole discussion will tie into tree mitigation codes or standards as it relates to development, that will be the crucial part of the piece that we'll need to understand. So anyways... Anytime you're talking about a natural ecosystem, it's very complex and it's really hard to pinpoint one root thing that could cause it to be the way it is. There's so many different variables that influence that, which is why we can't necessarily point to development or clear cutting or anything for that matter as the sole cause. I think it all impacts and influences what we currently have. We can hypothesize though that the canopy has changed based on the development in our city, but the fact is that we don't know for sure. We don't know that that's the cause. We don't know that the canopy has reduced. But we can establish a baseline of information. Canopy cover has limitations. I want to give you an analogy. Knowing just the canopy cover percentage would be equivalent to only knowing that the population of Denton is 122,000 people approximately without delving into the demographics of that population. So it becomes very difficult to craft services, to make sure that you are reaching people and helping people the way you need to that you're serving your population when you don't know who you're working for. And the same applies for trees. So what we don't know is how much it has changed, but we can look at the specific benefits, risks, and opportunities available to us through this kind of work. One such opportunity is to work toward what we've outlined in the Denton 2030 plan, which is to view Denton's trees as green infrastructure. And that is something that's specifically noted in the 2030 plan. Inventory-based analysis can provide us with per tree benefits in areas like economic return, property value increases, and improved health and quality of life. And the sort of analysis that we are going to be proposing to you also is used to identify risks associated with community trees along that second bullet point there. For example, hazardous limbs, insect or disease threats, dead or dying trees. I'm sure that you've all heard of oak wilt. There's also another disease called emerald ash borer that is to the north and the east of Denton. It is a big scary thing in the forestry industry because it completely wipes out ash trees. By not knowing how many ash trees we have, how many oak trees we have, we are putting our tree population at risk here in Denton to be able to craft and come up with a plan for how to address this if it is an issue for us. Yes, sir. Julie. Yeah. I was a little confused why that percent canopy cover was in the backup other than just to give kind of some data. For reference. It's just for reference. And it doesn't necessarily mean that we're trying to get to 37% because we probably can't attain that in our area. No. And that might not have been fair to include it just for that reason that setting a goal for canopy cover percent if that is a measure that the council would like to use has to be specific to Denton for the reasons that we discussed. So I think that looking at other cities, it can be helpful just for determining, you know, where they're at. But it doesn't necessarily mean that that's where we need to be or want to be. And that wasn't the implication of including the just for your reference. But coming back to what the mayor said, if you really look at our city, it's higher than 19% because we're incorporating all of that kind of Western open space. So while you look at Austin and Dallas and say, wow, they 're so far ahead of us, I think when you really look at our city core, you know, we're so much better than 19%. So I'd like to think so, but I'm not sure, you know, it's hard to know. With all due respect, it's hard to know when we don't have data to rely on. Except just looking at that map and the whole Western swath . I really know that Western swath and it's just a lot of yeah, a lot of a lot of prairie. We got that nice clay soil out there too. Councilmember Johnson. Lauren. Yes, sir. So I wonder as a part of this study, I'd be interested, usually not a big fan of comparing us to other cities and a lot of regards, but as a part of the study, it would be interesting to see are there cities that are similar in terms of, you know, you've got a pretty vast difference between Western half and Eastern half in terms of the cross timbers versus the prairie. It'd be good to know if there's data out there other cities that have done these same types of studies that we compare ourselves to that have a similar situation. Ecosystem. Yeah, just to get a feel because what I'm guessing is going to come out of this is some set of goals. Yes, sir. And it'd be nice to know whether, you know, if we set this sort of goal, this is what you can expect in terms of return on the investment and so on. So if it's hard to do, I know, but as a part of it, because the frustrating part is if you compare yourself to Austin, well, they don't have pra irie land. And so then you go like, well, we're behind, but we're really not behind. Right. And I stress that it's not a contest either. So, you know, and I've had to tell myself that looking at it, honestly, just, you know, with the organization that I work for, knowing that we have work to do, but I think that comparing to these cities, you're correct, is probably not a fair comparison. Well, I'm just, yeah. And to look at others that have more. I'm not beating that dead horse. I'm just saying if there's a way as part of the study to find some other folks, we can compare ourselves to to measure how we're doing, I think it'd be good. I can definitely look into that. I know that our ecosystem is pretty. Only if it doesn't increase the cost of the study. Duly noted. So the last thing that I want to note on this slide is that canopy and inventory assessments can help to set strategic direction for community tree programs along the lines of what Keep Denton Beautiful runs for the Denton community. So you see now this is somewhat self-serving. Our board is very interested in looking at how we can work smarter in terms of these community planting programs. So identifying areas of planting opportunity, looking at impact over time, maybe targeting or removing certain species from our giveaway programs. And all of this information can be derived by looking at these kinds of projects. So the other why comes back to the vision that I was telling you about at the beginning of my presentation of Denton as a leader in community forestry. So in addition to all of these really wonderful accomplishments, I want to say we also have this full-time urban forester who was here a second ago. Oh, there he is. So the fact that we have a full-time staff urban forester also speaks volumes about Denton's commitment to community trees. And we have an opportunity to continue this leadership, this legacy. So I want to quickly touch on the alignment with current city goals and priorities. I know that's a lot of text. Sorry for that. The Denton 2030 plan, strategic plan, and sustainability plan for the city all have elements that align with this project or specifically call out the notion of conducting some sort of study or determining what our management plans will be in future years for setting a goal for tree canopy cover. There's a lot of different things that are looked at. And you see the comparing tree canopy there. It actually comes directly from the 2030 plan. And it references management planning, protection of the tree canopy, and green infrastructure. So now I'll delve more into the project itself, what we are proposing, and what our research revealed as far as options for updating our data on Denton 's tree population. But first, since I'm not admittedly a certified arborist or a forester, I want to review these terms with you. I feel like it's beneficial to understand what we're talking about. When we say urban forests, that's the collection of trees that grow within a set area. So our city, our city's urban forest is within this set area of our city limits. The tree canopy is the above ground portion, pretty simple, where the leaves and branches overlap above the ground. Tree inventory systems is actually a whole field of study that focuses on analysis of urban forests through lots of different methods and approaches. There are a range of these assessments that can be done. Tree canopy analysis and eye tree sample inventory are the two that we'll be focusing on. The canopy analysis uses aerial imaging, similar to what I showed you on the map previously that we had conducted with UNT. To obtain a map of the urban forest, it uses spatial analysis to assess distribution of the trees and to identify areas of planting opportunity. And then an eye tree sample inventory takes a sample of land plots, inventories all the trees on those plots of land, and then derives averages or benefits for the entire community. So it's a little bit more cost effective and time sensitive sort of process than a full scale inventory. The purpose or goals of this project are, we're determined by examining other cities tree inventory projects by talking with city staff in various departments and by consulting our friends at the Texas A&M Forest Service who are a wonderful resource for us. So first we hope to establish a baseline of data for Denton 's urban forest information so we know what we have to start with. And I will note that any information that we would gather through this process might not necessarily be comparable to the study that was conducted in 2010 simply because the methods would be different. So if that number comes back and it's different, higher, lower, whatever the case may be, that could be the cause of that. And I just want to note that on the front end. We want to understand secondly the structure and the function of Denton's tree population. So in other words, what are the basic attributes or characteristics, health distribution, and then the benefits of the urban forest for our city. And you can quantify these down to the dollar. There are formulas that will look at things like community health benefit, property value increases and so on. And they can calculate dollar benefit return back to the community. Third, we're looking to obtain information that can help guide our approach to things like planting and maintenance of trees. And fourth, we hope to learn information that will help us target distribution of trees through the Denton Tree Initiative and other programs. So what we're proposing are two projects in one. We have firstly the tree canopy analysis, which again, aerial imaging, and we can get a spatial distribution of trees along with an updated canopy cover percentage. So it's a little more in depth than just that simple fly over with the canopy percent. And then we have the iTree Eco Sample Inventory, which does a sample of trees. Go ahead, Kevin. On that second one, you mentioned it's a bit more lightweight, I guess. I assume that's less expensive as well. Is that-- I don't know what you purchased. It sounds like it's a software program that you're able to get. But are you able to kind of-- once you kind of have that program installed, are you able to use that over a number of years to take random samples for whatever you happen to be looking at? iTree Eco is a software program, and it's more of a tool that you use through the process of the inventory. However, the data that you compile can be exported into other software programs and manipulated through things like ArcGIS or other programs that the city already uses. It can be transferred to the open data portal as a layer. I've discussed that with tech services, and that is a definite possibility. And so while the iTree Eco program in and of itself is probably not something that you would use in perpetuity, it can talk with other programs just by translating that data. So I guess the snapshot that you get-- here's my question. So in the Tree Canopy Analysis, it's a pretty larger, more involved snapshot that you're going to do, and then you're going to repeat in however many years from now. Think of that as your big picture, your umbrella. This one also gives you a snapshot at a certain point in time. I guess my question is, does whatever we would be purchasing as part of this allow me to go back in a year and say, OK, we've had these projects on the ground in this particular area, and I want to take another snapshot, because I want to understand what that did. From the point of view of that, does it give you that-- What you're doing is establishing a controller baseline so that you can go back later. And that is a big idea behind it, is that you would be able to go back and measure impact over time, because it is a snapshot. But it would require a new-- It would require a new-- That's always my question. OK, thank you. You'd have to update that. Now, it might not be as complex, because you'd have that baseline of information to work from. You could target it more. If you had certain areas that you wanted to look at, you could target to those rather than doing a full scale. But each of these approaches fall squarely in the middle of the scale that I was referencing, where you have canopy cover percent at the very most simplistic end, and then a full-scale inventory that pulls every single tree in the whole city, and inventories, the health, and species, and size, and all of that. These are right in the middle of that scale. Yes, sir. On your first bullet point, tree canopy analysis, I really would like to see if they can bifurcate that sort of intercord that seems to be bordered by 35, Luke 288, here's what this is, here's what the other is, here's the total combined. Because if we're talking about using data, and especially for moving forward and doing analysis five years down the road, if we don't bifurcate it like that, we're not really getting the data we want. And that is, are we losing tree canopy coverage because of development code issues? We had a big huge heat wave, when was that, 2011? 2011. So that was after this one study. So lost a lot of trees to that thing. So I really, to me, if we just did it the way we did it in 2010, we've wasted our money on the tree canopy analysis. And this is different. This is an analysis, it's sort of tomato, analysis versus what we did was a canopy cover percent assessment. So it's a more basic level, you're really just getting that percentage of canopy cover and that's all you're getting. So I guess what I'm saying is I would like for... It's not as easy to manipulate with that one. With this one you can. Okay, to split it out and to be able to look at those segments. Yes, absolutely can. By land use category, all kinds of things you can do with this. Just geographical areas for it? Yes, absolutely. By soil composition, I mean, you name it, we can break it down. Well, a couple of things. I thought that 2010 was intended to be the baseline. I think that the technology has advanced in such a way that six years later it can serve as somewhat of a baseline, but it's going to be difficult with the... Because that, what we did in 2010, isn't necessarily done just on its own anymore. We're getting canopy cover percent, but through something like a canopy analysis, we're getting much more than that. And one could imagine that in 10 years from now, technology will advance again and it will make the one that we do now seem somewhat antiquated. Absolutely. The other thing is that sometimes development does not always reduce canopy, because if you talk about neighborhoods that have been placed in an area that had been an open field like part of my neighborhood, the neighborhood north of Cooper Creek, they call it Hannah Estates now, there weren't any trees out there in the 1960s . That was all pasture land. Houses came in and people planted trees in their front yards and their backyards. There are a lot more trees now than there were then. So I don't know that we want to completely separate those out, because I suspect that as time goes on and as we see some of those areas west of 35 develop, there are more trees in ropes and ranch now than there were 15 years ago. And some of those trees that are 15 years old, some of those red oaks, are providing some nice shade now. So I think that you're going to see that we can learn that development is not always the enemy of tree canopy. It goes both ways, because it is a managed landscape. But I don't think the analysis on the two separate areas, at least based on that map, that's not really effective, because if five years from now you have a neighborhood move into that prairie area, when you go do your next one, it's going to show, okay, well, in this area it went from 5% canopy coverage to I just think that this 19% is got people that were using that as a number saying, God, we're getting rid of all our trees, and so that's my only rub on that. The question that comes in a managed urban landscape, what do you want the canopy to be? And when you look at cities like Denver or Washington, D.C ., they have intentionally set goals and worked toward those, even though historically those areas are not heavily treed. And so it becomes an issue of do we want trees here or not, rather than were trees historically here and should be here, or should we be higher than this percentage, or, you know, those are kind of points in my perspective. If they're split out, then that goal analysis makes sense. But if you've got one number for an area that's pretty heavily done already and one that's not, I mean, it's just critical that the data be as accurate and reflect, because I think to me that's just, that's almost a non-negotiable. If we're just going to use one number for the whole city, city limits, the data doesn't seem to give me anything that I can handle. It's not deep enough. I agree with you. Yes, Kevin. It almost reminds me, oddly enough, of the zones we created for impact fees. In thinking about this in a very similar way, which, so there might make sense to look at some real clear distinct zones for whatever reason we determine, and maybe that's part of the process, but, and that was on my list of questions to ask is a goal, because I don't know why we'd be doing this if we didn't have a goal attached to it, and I don't know if you're prepared to kind of suggest something, but I think as part of this process as we're moving forward and assuming we give the direction to do this, the cities that I've seen that have these goals, it's something that everyone can kind of get behind a number. It's like we're at this, we're heading towards this, and here's our path to do it. We're including the tree giveaway program. We've got this business program. We've got these new codes that we're working on for development to try and attach that. We'd obviously need a plan, which is a little bit, of course I'm no expert. It's a little bit obtuse to me how they get there. For instance, I'm looking at Baltimore. They have a goal to go to 40% by 2030 something, and so they must have a plan in place. So all that to say, my suggestion would be, and perhaps we have a single goal, and then it's broken down into here's how that translates. I agree with you on that, but are you prepared to kind of give suggestions along those lines in terms of a goal, and here's our path to get there? Would you like that to be a part of this conversation? And if so, is that something we have once this analysis comes back, or is that something we should kind of have going concurrently as we're doing this? That would be the caveat, I would say. My suggestion would be to get the results of this sort of project back and then determine what is a reasonable goal to be setting, not only based on our ecosystem, on the growth patterns of the city, but also on where we currently are and what it will take for us to get to a higher number. And that percentage is a number that's used in many different cities as an indicator of health of the urban forest, and it is an action plan in many cases. We want to get to this percent, so I think it would be great to include that. I think it is a little bit premature at this point. So this is an example of what you can get out of a tree canopy analysis. This is just a map. You get raw data, of course, that you can manipulate and import into other programs and divide out the way the mayor was referencing. But you can see how the map graphs change over time. They can chart some basic structural components of the urban forest, and they can also identify areas of planting opportunity. You get that updated percentage of canopy cover as well to boot, but lots of other information besides that. And this shows a sample inventory report. Here's a couple of page excerpts from the end result, the end summary of a sample inventory. So this approach delves deeply into the urban forest characteristics on the ground level, and also the community-specific benefits and risks associated with the urban forest. So you can actually do a risk assessment. As I said before, you can get per tree benefits or benefits for the entire urban forest. And then the most important information in some cases is just the characteristics. What do we have? And that can determine where we need to go from there in many cases. They have a lot of other in this chart. What is other? You can delve into that a little bit. So looking at the schedule, and I'm nearly done with my slides now, but the schedule for the project, I'll note that we have issued an RFP for this simply to account for the seasonal constraints. Our goal is to complete this study, if approved, in the summer when the leaves are on the trees. That's the ideal time to complete it. We also wanted to determine if we were on point with our cost estimates so that I could come to you with a good estimate of what this would actually cost. So the project could begin as early as May and would take approximately four to five months by what we're getting back. And the total cost estimate is approximately $150,000. We're proposing that the full cost be paid out of the tree mitigation fund. So finally, how we can use this data. There's a lot of different ways. We can calculate the impact of our programs and education efforts. We can start to look at long-range urban forestry goals for departments like planning and parks. We can even do a lot of really neat things when it comes to public communications and citizen engagement, where we're incorporating this information into our open data portal, involving the public, making the information itself public, where those GIS wizards that we have out in the community can actually take that raw data and do even more analysis on our behalf. So risks from dead and dying trees. And then we have now a wonderful group of citizen volunteers that have just -- those are a couple up on the upper right-hand side -- who have just completed the Citizen Forester Training Course that is part of the Denton Tree Initiative. They are ready, willing, and trained to go out and assess risk or anything else that we want to look at in a targeted way from obtaining this information. It would really help us to work smarter in that sense. And the last thing that I want to cover is future considerations. So I don't like to come up here and just tell you the flat $150 price tag and say, "This is all we'll ever have to do," because as Councilman Gregory touched on, there will be changes. There will be changes in technology. There will be changes in our community. As outlined in the Denton 2030 plan, there is a goal to have a management plan for the city. And what that means is a multiyear approach for how we manage our community's trees. This is just a draft timeline with associated cost estimates. These are estimates only. This is not part of the RFP. This was research that was done independent of that process . So every three to five years is the industry standard or ideal for how frequently you would update information as part of this process. And over time, you can increase the depth of information that you're getting to where toward that bottom five years or so, you're actually looking at things like on the very end where you could have a software program that actually generates work orders for maintenance of public trees. A little alert could pop up and tell you, "This tree needs to be pruned now at this location." So there's lots of really neat things that can be done with technology simply by getting this information and having it in a raw form where we can incorporate it and use it day to day. That is further off, but I wanted to show you this just to show you the realm of possibility in the long term, what is out there. But really the middle ground is where we are landing and what we're recommending to proceed with. So in summary, we are recommending to move forward with the combination of the tree canopy analysis and the iTree ECO sample inventory. And today we're asking your support to bring proposals back for your approval at a future meeting. What questions do you have? I'll take those. We'll take a few breaks and then we'll go to Council Member Hawkins. I just want to start by saying thank you so much for this presentation. We are a community that loves our trees and value them very much. I do get many emails sometimes. So do we. Yeah. When lots are clear, "Look what's happening!" I mean completely. And I feel the same way. I just wanted to clarify, Mayor, what you were saying. So you're saying a survey of the city limits and then one of the ETJ and then one that is all together. So we have debt for our future growth as well as our - I was just trying to see what you were saying. Sure. No, for me it was just when I - if you wouldn't mind putting that map up again, please. Sure. Lauren, thank you. And however they want to do it, I'm not telling them how they should do it. I'm just saying from the data perspective, when you look at that map, I'm assuming that map represents the city limits of Denton. Is that city limits and ETJ? City limits and ETJ. Okay. So some of that's in the ETJ that we're calculating is pretty open space. But when you look at the core area with the border's loop 288, you come down I-35 and then go down the leg 35 heading to Dallas, that's got a lot of green in there compared to the other. So when we say we only have 19%, we're taking into consideration all of that area to the west and north that has no trees, but we're using it in our calculations to say we're - I'm just saying I'd like to know what it is in what we really call the core of the city and then the rest. So however they want to do that, I'm not going to tell them you got to do this map and survey, but I just don't want to have one number that includes everything taking into consideration where there's actually no development and there's no trees because it's prairie. Does that make sense? Yeah, I'm just curious because we're doing a lot of annex ations and a lot have happened since then and a lot will happen and so eventually our city will be larger and so I was just trying to figure out how they were going to do that, but I understand that. Well, and that's even a good point too. We've done annexations that may incorporate even more sort of treeless land and part of it is because the big conversation around tree canopy and trees is when people are driving around in the city and they see a development going on and they see this, you know, they remove all the trees and then they have to come back and mitigate it either through mitigation tree mitigation funds or they replant and so it's - we're destroying all of our trees is sort of the message and then they look at the tree canopy coverage and say 19 percent. We've only got 19 percent tree canopy coverage. Well, when you're including in that hundreds if not thousands of acres that are undeveloped within the city, well, I just think it skews what's really happening where we're actually all living and if you want to have two numbers and then combine them together, that's fine, but I just - if we're going to use data, I just think we need accurate data and so that one number, that 19 percent, you could break it down into various components of the city, but when I just look at the map, that's what I saw. You will get more than just that one number through what we 've proposed and you can take that data and break it out in any way so it doesn't have to be multiple studies. It can be one - Yeah, and that's fine. Not knowing how they do it. I just - Break it out on the back end. Let's see, Hawkins and then Mayor Pro Tem. Well, an interesting study maybe would be the percentage of canopy compared to the percentage of population. Yes. Just where - just how those compare, so. So, two, I'm trying to understand exactly how canopy data is collected. I mean, to me it seems like there's some depth to canopy two. I'm sure that someone's flying over and taking a picture. Right. You don't have to go into great detail, but how is that done? So through the flyover assessments, they go down to about one meter off the ground and then there are methods that have been developed to where you can pull out things that are ground shrubs or other things that might falsely contribute to that canopy percent number. So you go down to about a one meter resolution with the satellite or other methods that are out there for doing those flyovers. I think Haywood can answer that in more detail if you'd like. Yes. I wonder if they do use trams. Yeah, just to add what Lauren just mentioned. Whenever the crews are out doing the sample and collecting sample data on the sample plots, there is actually a data field for the depth of canopy for each individual tree. So that also factors into how they calculate the amount of actual canopy on the sample plots. Okay. Thank you. I would be curious when we're asking for quotes or proposals to do this to see if with the current technology, I think it would be really fascinating. I like being able to dig a little deeper into the data and I would think that it might be possible to do something like I see the advertisements on TV for real estate. So you can draw a circle, you can draw a giraffe. So could I take my finger on some data map that they've done and draw out my neighborhood? Let's see what the canopy percentage is in Idiot's Hill or what it is in Southridge or Forest Ridge and compare those kinds of things to see. So if that's possible, I think that would be an excellent thing to consider as we do this. I think the information is definitely possible to get by neighborhood, by council district or whatever, however you'd like to break it out. And if it cost an extra $100,000, I'm not that curious. It would not cost extra. I think it comes part and parcel of just the analysis on the back end that we can ask them to break it out in certain ways and that can be part of the list. I don't anticipate that that would increase the cost. And if it does, we have an urban forestry or community forestry intern, we have a GIS division in the city. I think that these are things that are easily handled, at least by my understanding on the analysis side through ArcGIS or a similar program. And the other thing that goes along with this, you know, I think the mayor has a good point about if we're going to be setting goals. But I don't want to set goals that are foolish because we have some soils, you know, part of the reason for that that we see there has to do with fields or, you know, agricultural activities from 100 years ago, but some of it has to do with the soils. And I don't want to set some goals to grow a bunch of trees in an area that's not really that suitable for growing trees and it causes us to have to way overuse irrigation in order to keep them alive. It may not be the best thing to do. I mean, there may be an area where instead of trees, we want different kinds of ground cover. I'm not smart enough to figure that out. But one of our former mayors, Ray Stevens, don't sit there and agree with me so fast when I say I'm not smart enough to figure that out. Ray Stevens did an almanac of the state and it showed different aquifers and sub-aquifers and it had different types of soils in different areas. And I know that all of those play into the picture. So I don't know how small the analysis goes on the soils if our friends at A&M -- Yes, there are maps and databases already in existence that you could cross-reference this data with. And U.S. Forest Service could assist us with that. Texas Forest Service, they've already talked about that with us. So I just want to be careful. Because you know when you go to buy a tree at a nursery and you look at something like does well in well-drained soil, well, that would be your sandy soil along the lines of what we have in the cross-timbers area. But then you've got your clay soil, which I think what you 're saying is that some trees don't do well in that and that's correct. You'd have to target the species to make sure that you're getting the best selection for that area. And we can do that this way. Yes, we'll go down. Just trying to wrap this up, you need direction, correct? Yes, ma'am. And I would like to say let's move forward and we're clear on what, 150,000 I'll give or take and how -- what are you looking for today? Move forward with the RFP. Yes, ma'am. Move forward with the RFP and bring you back some proposals for approval. And that's the direction I would like to take this. We have a couple more questions. Councilmember Rodin. I agree that we should move forward. And it's funny, about a year ago I think we had this conversation and the council said no. And at that time I think our interest was we're looking at a big fund that wasn't being used, that we wanted to see some trees out on the ground. And I think there's a bit of frustration to say let's just get out there and do this. We don't want to fund more studies. We don't want to do that. And I think in large part thanks to you, your team and your vision. Parks is planning way more trees than we are right now. I mean, this concept of the various initiatives that KDB has put forward to get trees out there. I mean, KDB is probably one of the most goodwill generators , departments that the city has. Thank you. In everything you do. And the mural project, which isn't the topic here. I mean, the amount of Facebook posts I've seen just highlighting those very low cost murals that have beautified our city is great. So I think in part due to the innovation of you and Haywood and the rest of the team, we're now at a point where we're saying yes, this is a logical next step because you guys have done so much in this last year. So thank you for that. Thank you for spending. I appreciate that. I'm happy to give you the green light to continue. You've got a good team. Yes. As you know, I am 100% ready to do this. Thank you. Thank you. Everybody. Forward, forward. Okay. All right. Thank you. You bet. All right. We'll go on to agenda item number two B, receive report, hold discussion, give staff direction regarding the city's budgeting and special revenue funds in the capital improvement program of the city. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Chuck Springer, our director of fans will present this item for your consideration. Thank you, Mr. Springer. Thank you, George. And I appreciate Dalton, you putting the clock up so I can time myself here. I'm not sure what I'm shooting for. Want to cover kind of the last groups of funds that we haven't gone over in other presentations. And there are really two groups of funds, special revenue funds and the capital improvement funds are the budget. And I'll go over kind of their budget and purpose description and funding sources very quickly. Special revenue funds are used to account for revenue sources that are restricted or committed to certain expenditures for specific purposes. Usually this is two reasons. One is by legal restriction or commitment. Examples are the tourist and convention fund. That's the hotel occupancy taxes. State law restricts what those can be used for. So we have to track those separately to make sure they're used for that purpose. Grant funds, again, the grant agreements and federal and state law on the use of those funds so we segregate them out. Another example is the downtown TURS fund. State law sets out what we can use those revenues for as well as the ordinance that adopted the TURS. Kind of a second set is committed by action of the city council. And all of these are really under accounting rules and regulations in what is considered a special revenue fund for accounting purposes. A couple examples of committed by the city council, the street improvement fund. We segregated that out and the city council during the budget process sets a specific contribution of franchise revenues for street improvements and street maintenance. Another one is the downtown reinvestment fund where the ordinance adopted by the city council sets a contribution of a certain portion of mixed beverage revenues for the specific purpose in terms of downtown grants. Here's a- Can you just go back real quick? Do you know the percentage on the street improvement fund for the franchise fee? We've actually set a dollar amount. We've kind of frozen a dollar amount. I think it's about 6.223 million stays in the general fund. Everything above that goes to the street improvement fund from franchise fees. But it's based on the council budget each year. So we basically said we'll set an amount that stays flat in the general fund and all of the additional plus the growth in franchise fees goes to the street improvement fund. I'll cover a few of these others up here. Another example is the recreation fund where all the self- supporting recreation and park programs paid by fees, their revenues and expenses are in that fund. I covered the tourist and convention fund. The traffic safety fund is for red light camera violations. Again, under state law, those funds can only be used for specific purposes related to traffic safety and pedestrian safety. The downtown reinvestment fund I covered, the tree mitigation fund is again by ordinance of city council that we just talked about. Those revenues are specifically restricted as to what they can be used for. There's some park land, the dedication and development trust funds. When development occurs, I covered the downtown tours and the grants budgets. Just to give you an idea of other special revenue funds in the city, you can see this list here. For example, police confiscation. If the police confiscate property related to criminal activity under federal law, they can only use those for police specific purchases within the police department. >> We'll send those stuff back. >> Another example is like the parks gas well fund because the gas wells were on park property. Those revenues have to go toward park purposes. You can see the donation funds in here. That economic development investment fund was the new one that was created by the council during this last budgeting process. We'll actually bring back an ordinance to formalize that in the next meeting or two to again meet the accounting rules and regulations. >> Question on that, on those donation funds. I'm not sure that I've ever seen that on a list before. I could have seen it last week and forgotten about it. Police donations, fire donations, animal control donations, library donations. We created a park 501C3 park foundation to collect those funds. Why did we do that differently or did we need to do that or would it be better if we had >> Generally, I think they give to that. But if people leave it specifically for these, like for example, the library, they've gotten some recently that are in people's wills where a certain portion of the estate, they want to go to the city of Denton libraries and it comes to that. The animal control donations, part of that was for the building of that facility and now there's funds that come in donations that are used to purchase supplies. >> You could do it either way then. You could create a separate organization or you could simply do it through the city. >> As I understand the way foundations work is a lot of times it's dependent on what you're trying to expend that money towards. Public school foundation, for instance, has a lot more, they're a lot more nimble in their ability to give out scholarships, their ability to fund grants for teachers and things like that. That if it was tied up in public funds, the restrictions as we know are much more difficult. Perhaps there was a reason at the origination of parks that was along this line. Sometimes it's the purchasing requirements. We're under a lot of certain purchasing requirements that a private foundation isn't required to do. If there's no more questions on special revenues, I'll go to the capital improvement program. This is really for funding of capital assets of the city. In terms of how it happens in the budget, as the first year is formally adopted by the city council, we normally show you a five-year capital improvement plan. So the additional four years are really for planning and projection purposes. The formal adoption is of the first year. These are generally multi-year projects. A lot of them take more than a year. So the accounting funds are a little bit different. They're what we call multi-year accounting funds. You think of the general fund, whatever's not spent, that money rolls into the fund balance at the end of the year for capital project funds. Those funds stay within there, but there's not kind of a close out at the end of the year. They're for multi-year projects. The funding sources are debt issuance and cash or revenue funding for the most part. And in terms of this, we kind of adopt the program altogether. But in reality, there's several different actual capital project funds of the city based on two different criteria. One is the use of the funds. We have a separate capital project fund for the electric utility, for water, for streets, for facilities, public safety. We also, because of federal tax law, have to segregate money that's debt funded that we've told tax exempt bonds for versus cash funded. Because there's some federal restrictions on tracking those expenditures out of bond proceeds, we're required to calculate what's called arbit rage, where you're not allowed to earn a higher rate of return than you're paying on the bonds. You have to report. So for those purposes, we split those funds out. So for example, we'll have an electric bond funded capital project fund and an electric cash funded, the same for water. So I don't want to give you the sense it's just one pool of money. They're segregated for those purposes. This is just out of this year's budget for 15, 16 in terms of the total capital budget for the one year of the city. Let me point out that how this is budgeted, this total program available, this is an estimate of what's going to carry forward into this year. These aren't new funds, but really what's existing that we haven't completed. Like for general government, you see that large amount. A good portion of that is the RTR funding we received for the Bonnie Bray and Mayhill projects that we haven't expended yet, but we have those funds on our books. So we kind of start out with that. But these other columns are what's coming in the current fiscal year. The other funding is really cash funding that's going into these funds. And then we've got the certificates of obligation issuance, the GEO issuance, and a total proposed budget. And this is just trying to put a lot of small numbers on a chart because we're the finance folks who like to do that. Now this is just to show you the general government five year CIP. And again, we've got 15, 16 here. And you can see what are we selling in general obligation bonds. We've broken them down by what bond election and what proposition. And then we've got certificates of obligation. And then we've really got the cash funding. Some examples of those are the park funds. Those come from those dedicated park funds we talked about. The bike lane funding, we put 200,000 in each year. So those are some of the cash funding. And then the out years. I will mention on tonight's agenda in open session as we've got the parameters ordinance for the sale of certificates of obligation this year and the sales of general obligation bonds. This isn't thousands, I guess. Yes. Yes. This isn't thousands. Such a small number. A question about this, and I'm thinking back in this last year on a number of issues that kind of arose that sometimes circumstances kind of create an opportunity or something. And we're all kind of looking at a large price take for something with no real kind of revenue source or identified funds to pay for it. So if you think about the discussion we have with Denton IS D, I think we found a good solution to that. But one of the options could have been let's invest in creating some pathway for the interim or something. The question is, what funds do we have available to do that ? It wasn't part of our budget. Is there a way to think about CIP moving forward that would give room for those sorts of, I wouldn't call it emergency, but perhaps circumstance related or time sensitive issues that might arise under any given calendar year that could be set aside for projects like that? So that the council could have the ability to give directions for something, whatever that happens to be. Is the way to do that moving forward, I'm just floating the question, is to limit the amount we put out in terms of maxing out what we put out for election. So in other words, instead of doing 98 million if the council was interested in the next five years of having 10 million available for projects like that, that weren't locked into specific criteria as part of a bond program, is the way to do that just simply to say here's the direction we want to give, council wants 10 million over the course or whatever that happens to be, let's lower that to 88 million in terms of what we're taking to the voters and then we have the capacity to have that sort of thing. Does any of this make sense? Normally what you see when I talk about these final four years as planning process, I would hazard a pretty strong wager that we'll add some more projects within there based on priorities that come up. An example, we had the discussion with FIRE yesterday and we really decided to add in this year an additional 3 million that wasn't even planned at the beginning of the year. So normally you see those kind of projects in certificates of obligation when you do that. I mean, we could always put in the five-year plan like a contingency amount or other projects that are unspecified and put a few million dollars in each year just for planning purposes so when we projected our debt rate and those kind of things , we could take that into account. We could do that very easily. You tend to see those under certificates of obligation. Okay. And so it becomes a debt capacity issue that you don't want to have too many of these 3 millions that you kind of bring into the picture without realizing, oh, our capacity just shrunk or we need a tax increase or something like that. I just throw that out to the council as we get into budget time as we think through different tools we have at our disposal. Perhaps that's something we want to pursue. Councilmember Hollings. Chuck, you had brought up tonight's vote on 5A on the COs and then on B on the GOs there. Am I understanding this right? That's for general obligation refunding. So we are refinancing some old debt? Well, it's for both. We're going to issue the general obligation bonds, but we 're also issuing general obligation refunding bonds in conjunction with that sale, which will refund old debt. It's about -- I'd have to look at my numbers -- about I think 16 million of existing debt that we're looking at refunding because we can go from roughly a 5% interest rate to a 3% interest rate and have that interest savings. So those are sold as separate kinds of bonds? No, they're sold altogether. So really general obligation bonds, the term general obligation means that the only revenue pledge is a property tax pledge of the city. So it's either by voter approval that you can do that or by refunding authorized by the city council. So that will be one bond issuance, but it will include in it the new money for the 2012 and 2014 bond election projects and a portion of that that are refunding bonds that will be strictly used to refund existing debt for interest rate savings. And when we refund that debt, that savings goes somewhere. It really reduces our debt service expense in future years. For example, tonight it's over about a 12-year period. We're estimating I think it was about 118,000 each year that we're reducing our debt service going forward. So in other words, if you were at a million a year for your debt service expense and you reduce it by 100,000, then your debt service schedule during those years goes down to 900,000. It's kind of similar to refinancing a mortgage. I'm going to be paying so much a month or so much a year. Now my payment goes down a little bit. Okay. It's a follow up to this question. So does that savings that we save by refinancing go to help pay off like you said that 100,000? Will that be cash that we have to go in to pay off that debt? It really lowers your debt service expenses in future years . So think about your mortgage. I was planning on paying 1,000 a month and now I'm only having to pay 900 a month. So that's available. So really the impact it has is it lowers what you need for your debt service tax rate in future years by a little bit because your total debt service is a little bit lower, if that makes sense. So for clarification, the refinancing of GO bonds, those are bonds that were already voted on in past, in prior years. And sold in prior years. Refinancing simply save an interest expense. Correct. Correct. Thanks. Anybody else? Okay. And then just next steps, what's coming forward over the next couple of months. I think we've shown this each time. I think the police department presentation date may have changed a little bit because of some meeting changes. But other than that, some additional fund topics coming forward at your next meetings. Yes, kids on the road. Since we're talking about special funds and I see on June 14th, and I think this has been raised a couple of times in the last couple of months already, but I think there's an interest in looking into the possibility of ultimately we aning general fund off that 6 million left or 6 plus in franchise fees in diverting that totally to the street fund. A couple council members have mentioned that. So that obviously takes a plan. It takes a 5, 10 year, whatever that plan happens to be. But I hope to see that floated or at least a concept of what that would mean for next year's budget, the next five years budget in terms of what our options are to do that. So that we can at least have a council conversation on that . That would be helpful. Just real quick. That's why I was earlier asking if it could be a percentage possibly and then if we have a plan and it keeps building up until it is weaned off rather than a dollar amount. So I don't know. And let me just mention, yes, we can do that. But realize every time we reduce franchise fees, we're reducing funding available to the general fund. So it's basically saying we're going to reduce what's available to the general fund and move it over to street maintenance. It gives us more street maintenance, but it takes away what 's available for additional ambulance units and all those kinds of additional funding in the general fund. So it's a trade off. I hate to bring that one up, but it was very yesterday. Question on the -- when you talked about the analogy on the mortgage. And so we have a reduction in debt service. Correct. Let's just take the mortgage example. So if I have $100 savings, I've got two choices basically. I can take that difference and go spend it on whatever I want, which I know we can't do that necessarily. Or I could go ahead and put that $100 back on the principal amount and pay off the mortgage faster than what it was originally scheduled to do. So let's look at if these savings that we're accruing by this refinancing of the bonds. Because it's in the debt service fund, which is the debt service tax component. If we identify this reduction in debt service, are we able to -- first of all, I'm sure we could elect to -- I guess if you could pay the principal off, you can pay it off faster. In other words, reduce the amortization period of the bonds unless there's some covenant, bond covenant that would restrict that. Or it increases our debt capacity without having to raise tax rates. In other words, if you're saving half a million dollars a year on debt service from all these refinances, you can go out and issue more debt and you're still at the same level but you get more value. Or can you take that difference and bring it somewhere else and use it for something else? In other words, what do we do with that? Well, normally what we do and what our debt policy calls for, and there's some federal tax law restrictions on what you can do with that money, is we try to do level savings. In other words, if it's over a 10-year period, we have level savings. So it's level amongst those 10-year periods. Other than that, you could kind of have a one-time savings. We don't recommend that. It's not in our debt policy. But if you had some kind of financial catastrophe and you said we really need savings all to occur in next year to help us out, that's possible. You can't really -- that savings isn't realized until future years, so you can't really take those dollars and apply them somewhere else. All you're really doing is reducing your future expenditures, if that makes sense. Sure. But if we budgeted for that -- I guess we're only budgeting it a year at a time. But when we do our five-year forecast, we're saying we've got X amount of dollars that we're going to have to be spending on debt service. So I guess where it comes into play is when you're doing your yearly budgeting process, as these savings accrue, you have maybe greater capacity without a tax rate increase. We absorbed the tax rate increase in this last budget. Where we did that by shifting the tax rate. Right, but if we refinanced and saved $500,000 over the next ten years, each year, 500 a year in debt service, you could theoretically go, well, if we had an emergency come up, we were forecasting this. I guess it just depends on how you forecast it and how you pay it. And realize once you issue debt, your principal schedule is set. In other words, we issue so many bonds that are going to mature in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019. You can't kind of come back and change that. All you can do -- You can't pay it off early. The only way you pay it off early is you can take existing revenues and defuse those bonds. In other words, put money in escrow to prepay them. Yeah, you can't pay it off like you pay off your mortgage. Correct. Correct. And in expanding municipal bonds, there's usually a ten- year call date. So you issue 20-year bonds with a ten-year call. So we tend to refund it to that ten-year call. We can call those bonds beyond ten years. But then when we've issued them again, they generally are not callable. Any other questions on -- is this the -- This is it. Yeah, Council Member Briggs. For clarification for tonight's vote on the general obligation, you said there could be an election or Council can approve -- Well, there's -- the two kinds of general obligation bonds are those approved by the voters -- Right. -- or refunding bonds that are just refunding prior issued general obligation bonds -- And that's tonight. -- approved by the voters. Correct. Okay. And I'll go over a little bit more details. Those are regular items. Tonight and the CO. Thank you. Okay. Anything else? Fantastic. Well, that seems to complete our open work session reports. We will -- what we'll do is I'll go ahead and call the closed session and we'll take a break, five-minute, two-minute break. We'll complete the closed session at 3.40 p.m. We will consider the following items. Consultation with attorneys under Texas Government Code section 551.071 and deliberations regarding real property under Texas Government Code section 551.072. Replica of the Oval Office, which is the President's office in the White House. This is exactly how it looked during President Bush's administration. And I was honestly shocked that people were so willing to respond to us and say, "Yes, we want you to come." We got to go to the top of the courthouse, the campus theater, the Denton Record Chronicle, and my personal favorite, our own private concert with Brave Combo. This is our version of the song "Chopsticks." All right. Hit it, Carl. [music] You know, we went six stories down into the basement of FEMA where they have their command center. These are just not places that everybody gets to go. So it was... Honor the Texas flag. I pledge allegiance to the Texas, one state, under God, one indivisible. I'll come down for a couple proclamations. Okay, the first one is Arbor Day. Come on down, Arbor Day. Yay for trees. I'm going to read a proclamation, but before I do, I'd like for you guys to share with us a little bit about what we're proclaiming today. My name is Lauren Barker. I'm the program manager for Keep Denton Beautiful, and we are here today to proclaim April 23rd Denton Arbor Day. We have the Denton Redbud Festival that is celebrated on that day this year. This is Denton's official Arbor Day celebration, and this year we actually celebrate a big milestone. It's the 25th year, the silver anniversary of Denton's status as a Tree City USA through the Arbor Day Foundation. We have a long history of caring for our trees, and we're really excited to celebrate with the community on April 23rd. Don't miss it. I'm Haywood Morgan. I'm the urban forester for the City of Denton. Really excited to celebrate Denton's 25th anniversary of our 25th year being recognized as a Tree City USA, which puts Denton in some rarefied air among cities in the entire United States and the world. Thank you. You know, they planted, I guess they've gotten all the trees planted along the, I think it's South Eureka Park or that South Lakes, South Branch Park. What a, it looks great. It just looks absolutely fantastic. So this is a proclamation by the mayor of the City of Dent on. Whereas in 1872, J. Sterling Morton proposed that a special day be set aside for the planting of trees. Whereas this holiday called Arbor Day was first observed with the planting of more than a million trees in Nebraska. A million trees. That's a lot of trees. And whereas Arbor Day is now observed throughout the nation and the world. And whereas trees can reduce erosion, cut heating and cooling costs, clean the air, provide habitat for wildlife, and serve as a renewable resource of wood and fuel. And whereas trees serve as green infrastructure for by increasing property values, enhancing the economic vitality of business areas and beautifying our community. And whereas the City of Denton is celebrating its 25th consecutive year as a tree city USA through the National Arbor Day Foundation. And whereas in celebration of Arbor Day, Keep Denton Beautiful annually holds the Denton Redbud Festival and Children's Arbor Day programs, as well as numerous other community forestry programs to encourage the community to plant and care for trees. And now therefore I Chris Watts mayor of the City of Denton Texas do hereby proclaim Saturday April the 23rd 2016 as Arbor Day in the City of Denton and urge all citizens to celebrate Arbor Day and to support efforts to care for and plant trees for the betterment of our community for this and future generations. So thank you very much. We got a we got a flag. There we go. Fantastic. Okay. Okay. Give you the right one. Yes. The next project is the Arbor Day. And it's a project that's been in the history of the city of Denton since the beginning of the 20th century. And it's a project that's been in the history of the city of Denton since the beginning of the 20th century. And it's a project that's been in the history of the city of Denton since the beginning of the 20th century. And it's a project that's been in the history of the city of Denton since the beginning of the 20th century. And it's a project that's been in the history of the city of Denton since the beginning of the 20th century. And it's a project that's been in the history of the city of Denton since the beginning of the 20th century. The next proclamation is Don't Die of Doubt Day. Come on down. If you'll once we get your crew here, introduce all of you and tell us what we're proclaiming today. I'm Katie Moreno with the American Heart Association. And I want to thank you for recognizing Don't Die of Doubt Initiative in collaboration with our wonderful hospital partners and our fire partners. I'm going to let Chief Glenn talk about it. Well, the fire department flies the EMS and we can train all of our firefighters and paramedics like we have. The council can keep helping buy more ambulances, putting them in every station like we've done. But none of that matters if the people that have signs and symptoms of a heart attack don't take the first step and call 911. And that's why we, the fire department and the hospitals, have all partnered with the American Heart Association and Mission Lifeline on this Don 't Die of Doubt campaign. We've been advertising it real strong the last year, but we want everyone to be familiar with the signs and symptoms of heart disease and to don't hesitate and call 911 right away. First symptom. Hi, I'm Debbie Corley with the Heart Hospital Baylor Denton . Hi, I'm Dr. George R. Jefferson George. I'm a professor at the University of North Texas and the recipient of the great work of the fire department and so on. On January the 15th, I had a cardiac arrest. There were no signs and symptoms. And it was only because people did call 911 and I had coworkers that knew CPR and then the fire department was there almost immediately. And so I received the treatment that I needed to be saved. I'm so honored actually to be here. So thank you very much. Hi, I'm Dan Donaghan. I am the chest pain coordinator at Presby Denton. And the big thing with everybody in town with all the hospitals with the fire department, with survivors, it's all about not ignoring signs and symptoms of a heart attack or learning CPR, getting out into the community, teaching CPR and making that impact. Heart disease is the leading cause of death in the United States and we can make that impact. Hello, I'm Jerry Kirby. I'm with the Denton Regional Medical Center and we partner with the American Heart Association also with the -- and also the EMS with the Denton Fire Department. It's real important that we get this campaign out that to call 911, some people don't know that the fire department is very capable of doing the same thing that the hospitals are doing. So we really support that the fire department and American Heart Association. Well I appreciate you sharing your story as well because I know we can read these sometimes and we understand what we're trying to encourage, but you 're a real live example of how important that is. And so thank you for doing that. As a proclamation by the mayor of the city of Denton, Texas , whereas cardiovascular disease is the number one killer of Americans and whereas in 2014 more than 4,800 North Texas residents over the age of 50 suffered a heart attack and whereas every 43 seconds someone in the United States has a heart attack and whereas only 40 % of people experiencing a warning sign of a heart attack called 911, that that's only 40% of people experiencing heart attack signs called 911. And whereas treatment can be delayed up to an hour for those who drive themselves and whereas reducing treatment time by calling 911 is vital to surviving a heart attack and whereas medical treatment is initiated by the 911 dispatch er and delivered by EMS who can identify and treat a suspected heart attack upon arrival at the patient's location and whereas the American Heart Association watched the Don't Die of Doubt campaign to educate North Texas residents on the value of calling 911 at the first sign of a heart attack. And now therefore I, Chris Watts, mayor of the city of Dent on, Texas, do hereby declare and proclaim Tuesday, April the 5th, 2016 as Don't Die of Doubt Day and call upon the citizens of Denton to heed all warnings and to call 911 at the sign that they may be experiencing a heart attack. This could save your life. So I want to thank the American Heart Association for really bringing this to our attention and everyone in Denton who participates in that and actually literally saves lives. So thank you all very much. I do want to share one story before they leave. As we were meeting in my office talking about this, I shared with them that one day I was driving from Dallas and was experiencing some heart palpit ations or something like that and I just continued to drive myself to the emergency room. And I got a little chided for that. So this is as much good for me as anybody else. So again, thank you all very much for what you do for our community. You bet. Thank you all. Before we go into the normal part of our agenda, I wanted to make an announcement that agenda item 6F of the public hearing has been withdrawn by the applicant. So if anyone is here for agenda item 6F, the applicant has withdrawn that application, so therefore we will not be... Oh, I'm sorry. 6G. So if you're here for 6G. That's my apologies. That's my mistake. 6G. If you're here for 6G, the applicant has requested that that be withdrawn, their application, their withdrawing application. Well, I think we have to do the public hearing first. Yeah. Yeah. 6A also we will... They're going to withdraw that, but due to technical procedures, we do have to open the public hearing. So if anyone is here wishing to speak on that, they certainly will have the opportunity to do that. So moving on to our next item in the agenda is presentation from members of the public. The first one is A. We're going to see the procedures for citizens' reports. The Denton City Council has adopted rules of procedure, including a code of conduct, which applies to citizens as well as council members. These rules were enacted to promote an orderly process and to preserve decorum. Here is a brief review of the rules that apply to citizens' reports. Citizens will have four minutes to give a report. There will be an electronic beep when time has expired. If the remarks are not concluded by that time, the citizen will be asked to stop speaking. If the citizen does not cease and a second request is made, the mayor will request to have the citizen removed from the council chambers. Citizens are asked to not approach the dais. If a citizen has papers or other materials to hand out to the council, please let the city secretary know, and she will have a staff member distribute the materials to the council. The attorney general has ruled that council members may listen to citizens speak and may ask questions of citizens for clarification of the issue. Council members will not engage citizens in discussion of a topic, because to do so could potentially be a violation of the Open Meetings Act. When speaking to the council, citizens are to direct all remarks and questions to the council as a whole and not to any individual member. Please refrain from making abusive, personal, impertinent, profane or slanderous remarks. Anyone who violates this rule will immediately be removed from the council chambers. Citizens' adherence to these rules will help make an effective presentation and will preserve the order and decorum of our proceedings. Copies of the rules of procedure are available from the city secretary. Regarding establishing a Denton Forensics Center. Please state your name and address and your time will begin . Thank you. My name is Dalton Allen. I reside at 111 Lexington Lane in Denton. And a few months ago, I had a burglary at my house, middle of the day. The door was kicked in. We have cameras all around the house. We have cameras inside the house. So we were able later to watch this guy, where he went, what he did. And the police were out very quickly. They were absolutely incredible. I can't say enough good things about what they did and how they handled themselves. They collected fingerprint data, DNA data, the place where, you know, footprint data, whatever it was to collect, they collected. And I made a comment to one of the officers that with facial recognition software, what it is today, and with all of the things that we have at our disposal, we have probably a good chance of catching this guy. The comment that I received was, well, really it takes six to 24 months to get this information back to us. So I started thinking about that. And the concern that I had, of course, is, well, what happens to my neighbor if they go over there or goes across town to your house or goes somewhere else? Or what happens if somebody is in a home when it's burglar ized? Then violence can increase. Other things can happen. And we don't have a way to get from here to dealing with that problem. So I started doing a little bit of research and honestly found that the sheriff's department a few years ago had purchased a couple of mass specs, which was about $200,000 worth of equipment that Sheriff Travis passed on to UNT to put in their lab whenever he took over office. And it's there and it's functioning and it's working well. And quite honestly, UNT in critical instances will help local law enforcement with their lab. It's very professional. It's very good. But we don't have anybody to work in that lab, to do anything to bring forth the needs of our local police department. I believe that there's a very quick way for Denton to become much more adept and involved in forensics type data that is needed to control the people that are on the streets doing things that we don't want them to do. UNT does have a lab if the council would get with UNT and have a discussion, establish a professional relationship in there to where the police department could actually utilize that lab for 15 or 20 hours a week. UNT needs data from the police department to do all of their research. That's where their research comes from. It's a symbiotic relationship. Something I am absolutely positive can be worked out in this way and it gives our law enforcement professionals immediate access then to forensic data that they've never had before or the ability to produce that data. The other thing that we need to do is actually address it in the budget and its budget time. So that's why I thought this might be a good time to visit about this. I've seen the budget the last couple of years. I haven't gone back past that and there was, I forget the name of the end of it, crime scene technician was in the budget that's been cut the last couple of years. We need another crime scene tech. There's an existing crime scene tech right now that actually has so many other responsibilities that they're not able to, is that, I don't, my hearing aid, am I done? It was but we do have a couple questions for you. Okay. Councilmember Wasney. So two questions. The first one, the six to 12 month wait, that was on the fingerprint and DNA, is that correct? Fingerprints they can actually produce local fingerprints. If they've been in the Denton system they can produce that pretty quickly. Anything outside of that, it's my understanding they have to go to the FBI and that is a wait but I don't think that it's that long just for fingerprints . It's whatever it takes for the FBI to get it back to them. Yeah, if you could just maybe stand up. Oh, I'm sorry. Just thank people over the meeting. Were you able to hear me? Yes. Okay. So the six to 12 months was the facial recognition and the DNA, were those okay? I didn't get into a lot of detail on that question. I'm sure the police department can give all of that information in detail but it's my understanding, yes, facial recognition things and DNA is a much longer wait. Anytime you get into DNA or anything to do with a homicide, that by contract goes to Fort Worth ME. So it's not handled in Denton anyway. But all of the, I mean there's drugs. There's all kinds of stuff that is necessary for the mass spec and DNA issues that we cannot do that we don't get information back for for criminals in the city. Second question. So the crime scene tech was cut from the budget, is that correct? And is there anything else that you want to add to the presentation in terms of strategic partnership with UNT, crime scene tech added back in, of course coordination with our local police department. Is there any other piece of this puzzle that you would add to finding a solution? One more thing if I may. A natural offshoot of beginning the process of working with the UNT lab and working that over time, excuse me, is also for the city to determine where they want to have a lab of their own and start that process. It'll take a couple of years to get it certified but there 's also a couple of budgets that are involved in that and planning that can be done to actually achieve what we need in the city. We're growing so fast. We have things that are happening that nobody knows about that we've never seen before outside forces that are looking at Denton and wanting to operate here. We just need to be prepared for that. Thank you. Thank you very much. Couple more questions. Oh yes. Council Member Hawkins. Sorry Mayor, thank you. Are you saying that we're down to one crime scene tech now or we have zero now from the research? We have one crime scene tech that isn't able to spend the time on the crime scene issues because she has other responsibilities that keep her from that a lot, not all the time. So budget-wise we need somebody that can take that load off of her and then we need an additional crime scene tech. That's my take. Sure. There are people that know a lot more about this than me. What I'm trying to present to Council is that we have an issue that I don't think Council was even aware of here and I wanted to bring it to the table so that you guys could determine how best to proceed. Thanks for coming out. I live in your neighborhood. I'm sorry that happened to you. One other question. Council Member Briggs. I appreciate this information. I didn't realize. So did you actually talk to someone at UNT? I have spoken with a couple of individuals but not the right ones, people that know what's going on there at least to a degree, but they're not at the level of making decisions. That's something that you guys can handle. To reach out. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. The next speaker will be Zach Youngbud regarding renewable dentin. Is Zach here? Okay. I do not see Zach. We'll now move on to agenda item 3C which is additional citizens reports. We have one card. If you would come down and please state your name and address. Your time will begin. It will be Tiffany Hudspeth. Name and address and your time will begin. Yes, ma'am. Okay. My name is Tiffany Hudspeth and my address is 316 North Bonnie Bray Street. I'm from 7601. I just had a brief comment about the dentin renewable plan regarding the proposed dentin energy center. I just wanted to voice my support for building that energy center. I read through the research. It was very thorough and I can tell that a lot of care and concern was put into that research. I think it's a really good plan for our city. It makes sense economically because it actually causes our rates to go down instead of up and also is environmentally responsible because it increases the use of renewable energy. That's all I have. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. We'll go on to agenda item number 4 which is consent agenda . Oh, I'm sorry. Oh. Okay. We got one more speaker. Deb Armantor. Come down and state your name and address please. Your time will begin. Deb Armantor, 2003 Misty Wood Lane. I wanted to talk about something that just came up today, actually something that I just found out about. That is that I just heard that the Buc-E's request for a variance on that environmentally protected area was pulled from the agenda. What I heard from the people who live there is that they had received 21% opposed signatures from people who live within 200 feet of the Buc-E's. So in other words, they had gotten 21% of the signatures from those people. They only had to get 20% of the signatures of people who live there in order for it to take a super majority on council to override that request for variance. So on the one hand, that's good news for the people who want to protect that one little strip of nature that's dividing them from Buc-E's and also helping them with various drainage issues. On the other hand, it means as they found out that Buc-E's can put in a request any time they can renew that request. And these same people who work so hard to get these signatures and scramble together at the last minute will have to go through this whole business all over again and get all new signatures. So I sincerely hope, as do they, that it's not going to come to that. I hope that Buc-E's will see that this 21% of signatures means that these people don't want this environmentally protected area encroached upon. That I'm fearing the worst, as are many of them. So I just wanted to report that, even though I assume all of you know, I just wanted to publicly report that to whoever's watching and who's ever listening, that we should all prepare for the worst and pray and hope for the best for those of us who are against this encroachment. So that's all I wanted to say. This is the open mic portion. I don't know if questions are allowed during that time. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that. Thank you. Seeing no more cards, we will move on to consent agenda items. Consent agenda item number four, Councilmember Hawkins. Thank you, Mayor. This is a little confusing here, but I move approval of consent agenda items A through double K, but we are going to be pulling a number of them for individual consideration, and that is double B through double J. Okay. Double A, too? Clarification on the motion, please, sir. May I assume that the motion would include the substitute ordinance on item four D to correct a transposition of some figures? My mistake. I forgot about that. Councilmember Rodin. I second the motion as corrected. I'm not going to try to repeat that motion, so I'm going to -- we have a motion. Let's vote on the board. Motion carries seven zero. We will now take the consent agenda items that were pulled for individual consideration in order. And the first one being consent agenda item for individual consideration, B, Baker-Baker. Mayor and Council, we pulled -- or we ask that all of the items related to these non-annexation agreements for agricultural land associated with these annexations be pulled, so they're all off now for individual consideration. And I'll be glad to go through as we work these off and tell you which ones did merit a change. Item B, B does not have a change on it, so the council is free to pass that item with the information as put forth in your backup. All right. Thank you, Madam City Attorney. Councilmember Wasney. Just so the public understands that -- thank you. The public understands that everyone in that area signed a non-annexation agreement that reaches to the year 2020. Yes, ma'am, that's correct. And this is -- this particular item relates to item areas in DH1. So B, B relates to areas in DH1. Okay. Councilmember Johnson. Move approval of item B, B. Councilmember Hawkins. I second. We have a motion and a second. Let's vote on the board, please. Item Carried 7-0. Item for individual consideration, CC. Mayor and council, there are some additional non-annexation agreements that the council will need to add to the ordinance associated with item CC. So if the council would pass the item as it is in your backup, but with the addition of the non-annexation agreements that we've handed out, which are labeled as DH2. Okay. Councilmember Rhoad. Thank you, Mayor. I move approval of item CC with the additional non-annex ation agreements given to us. Mayor Pro Tem. Second. Councilmember Wasney. And again, for the public, just to emphasize that these are non-annexation agreements that have been signed and extending all of that to the year 2020 . All right. Let's vote on the board, please. Motion Carried 7-0. Item D, D. Mayor and council, likewise with item D, D, if the council would pass this item with the backup in your packets, but also with the additional items that we have labeled item 4, DD, related to DH3. And then there was a late coming one that we recommend that you also add to that. Oh, strike that. I'm sorry. That relates to another item. So strike that. It's only the one labeled the DH3 in your additional backup . Councilmember Rodin. Thank you, Mayor. I move approval of item DD with the additional agreements as stated. Councilmember Hawkins. I second. We have a motion to second. Let's vote on the board, please. Motion Carried 7-0. Individual item EE. Mayor and council, once again, there are additional non- annexation agreements to those that are set forth in your package and your backup. So if you would pass this item with these additional agreements, that would be acceptable. Mayor Pro Tem. I move approval of item EE with the additional agreements. Councilmember Johnson. Second. We have a motion to second. Let's vote on the board, please. Motion Carried 7-0. Item F. F. Mayor and council, with regard to item F. F, there are no changes. And so if you would pass this with the backup in your packets, that would be acceptable. Councilmember Rodin. What happened? Sorry, the board went crazy there. I move approval of item F. F. Councilmember Hawkins. I second. We have a motion to second. Let's vote on the board, please. Motion Carried 7-0. Item GG. Mayor and council, there are additional non-annexation agreements associated with this item. So if you would pass it with your backup and the additional non-annexation agreements as handed out to the council. Councilmember Johnson. I move approval of item GG with the additional non-annex ation agreements as stated. Mayor Pro Tem. Second. We have a motion to second. Let's vote, please. Item Carried 7-0. Agenda item II. Oh, did I miss one? We missed HH. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, I've got it checked off. I shouldn't have. HH. Agenda item HH. Okay. With regard to agenda item HH, there are no additional non- annexation agreements. So those in your packet are the ones that we have. So if you would pass it as presented in your council backup . Councilmember Hawkins. I move approval of item HH. Councilmember Rodin. Second. We have a motion to second. Let's vote, please. Motion carries. Now we'll get to II. Agenda item II. Mayor, with regard to agenda item II, there are additional non-annexation agreements to those in your council backup. So if you would pass it with those additional non-annex ation agreements, please. Councilmember Johnson. I move approval of item II with the additional agreements as stated. Councilmember Rodin. Second. We have a motion and a second. Let's vote, please. Motion carries, 7-0. Last item for individual consideration from the consent agenda is item JJ. Mayor, once again, we have additional non-annexation agreements associated with this item. Which is PAA4. So if you would pass it with the additional items, that would be acceptable. Councilmember Rodin. I move approval of item JJ with the additional agreements. Mayor Pro Tem. Second. Councilmember Wasney. And again, just to clarify, these are all the annexation areas and these people have signed non-annexation agreements extending all of that out to 2020. All right. Let's vote, please. Motion carries, 7-0. We'll now move on to items for individual consideration. Agenda item 5A, consider adoption of an ordinance considering all matters incident and related to the issuance and sale and delivery of up to $93,840,000 in principal amount of City of Denton certificates of obligations. Thank you, Mayor. Chuck Springer, our Director of Finance, if he would present this item. And you do have some speaker cards on the next three. Thank you, Mayor and members of the Council. The first ordinance for consideration is for certificates of obligation for this year. In terms of a brief breakdown of them for general government purposes, it's $8.125 million. I do want to highlight a couple items on there. One of them is the land acquisition and construction for the fire training facility. In a total of $3 million is included. There were some discussions at yesterday's Council meeting on that. Also $15.7 million for our solid waste, $7.5 million for water projects, $3.87 million for wastewater projects, and $57.85 million for electric projects. Just to highlight on the electric projects, about 68% of that is eligible for transmission cost reimbursements through the state system. Highlight a couple more items. The City sells this debt in accordance with the useful life of this asset. So a portion of this debt is going to be for a five-year period, about $8.7 million, $3.6 for a 10-year period, $22.8 for a 20-year period, and $57. 85 the electric portion for a 30-year period. In addition with our debt, we standardly issue it with a 10 -year call feature to take advantage of lower interest rates and refunding. The ordinance in front of you sets forth the parameters for a planned competitive sale. About the third week of May is where it's currently planned . A maximum amount of $93.84 million, a maximum maturity of 30 years in 2046, a maximum net effective rate of 4.25%. With that, recommend passage of this ordinance. >> All right. We do have a speaker on this agenda item, so I'd like to seek public comment. Mr. Willie Hudspeth, if you could come down and state your name and address, your time will begin. >> My name is Willie Hudspeth. I live at 623 Newton. Point of order, and my time can take that. It can go. I want to know. If you pull an item off your consent agenda, then it becomes an item for individual consideration. Why weren't we allowed to speak at that item? We should have. They were items for consideration. You did not have the authority, as far as I understand, to just willy-nilly vote those things in. And I wanted to comment on them. Secondly, I'm going to get to all of this money you're spending, and I don't know where it goes, just for the heck of it. I don't know. I guess everybody else does. There were 37 consent agenda items. 37. What that means is you, somebody, somewhere talked about these issues without the public knowing anything about it, other than having to do a lot of research, which I'm going to start doing. By golly, you're not going to spend this kind of money in this item, A, that's a lot of money. I have not one clue as to what that money is being spent for and if it's justifiable. But you have a lot of stuff hid, or not hid, that I didn't get to see in the consent agenda. Now I want my question answered. You will then hide underneath, around. This is an item that is not what we're supposed to be discussing here. Well, it's going to come up again. I want to know why I didn't have to get to speak to those issues that were for individual consideration. Madam City Attorney, would you like to respond to that? No, I'll be glad to speak to our council rules with regard to that particular issue. Once we do pull the items off of consent, we will typically , as a matter of practice, allow blue cards on those items. To my knowledge, there were no blue cards on these particular items. Mr. City Manager, were there blue cards? There were not any here nor in the work session where we sometimes consider consent agenda items. So those could have been spoken to in a normal process at that time as well. Council Member Hawkins. Yeah, my question was for Chuck. So I can wait if anybody else needs to speak. No, you're the only one in queue. I just wanted for clarification just the timing of this. You know when it says City of Denton Certificates of Oblig ation Series 2016, why are we doing this at this time? In terms of backing up a little bit, the capital budget is considered by the council as part of the budget process and these planned issuances occur at that time. We generally don't sell until a little bit later in the year. One of the reasons is the debt service impact. So we kind of delay some of the debt service impact a little bit later and we pass a reimbursement ordinance letting us kind of begin the initial design on these projects and then try to sell more when we're ready to get going with the projects, not necessarily have the money on hand too long and paying interest on that before we're going with those projects, which is kind of a standard timeframe. It also allows us if we sell in May, we generally start getting some preliminary values in it in April so we want to feel comfortable about what our value is going to be to pay the debt service on these items, especially the general government. So that's kind of where the timing in May occurs. Thank you. Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, Mayor. Mr. Springer, we got the backup for this item, 5A, and that was made available I guess Friday or Thursday at noon, something like that, is that correct? That's in the agenda item backup, yes. So in that, I'm looking at it right now, I see a big list, for example, vehicle replacements, North Texas Boulevard improvements, facility maintenance programs, land acquisition, parking improvements. Then there's a list for solid waste projects and we see individual items listed with the amount for each one of those items. There's in that solid waste area 38 different items that are specifically listed, is that correct? Correct. And then we have another list for water projects and I see six different ones of those with an individual amount for each one of those totaling about 7 .5 million. And we have those for each of those categories, right? So those have been available for the public to peruse since when? Really since adoption of the budget. That's proposed in the proposed budget. We give details to council and then in the adopted budget it's available on the city's website. And also I failed to mention that prior to this action for certificates of obligation as required under state law, we come to the council and pass what's called a notice of intention to issue the certificates of obligation and we publish that information in the newspaper over two consecutive weeks and that has to occur at least 31 days prior to authorization of the issuance. So that also has occurred back in February and March. Okay. Thank you very much. Councilmember Briggs. So my question is about the transmission cost of service recovery that you mentioned on some of the substations. So when we get those reimbursements back, where does that money go? Does that go back to pay the principal of the debt or does that go into a different fund? It goes into the electric fund which is it becomes a revenue of the electric fund and that's where this debt service is paid for, the principal and interest out of the electric fund. So it's a revenue of the electric utility fund to offset those costs. And there's a return associated with that so we get a little bit above the actual cost of it. There's kind of a return that also comes to the city. Does that answer your question? Okay. Councilmember Johnson. Thank you, Mayor. So, Chuck, simplify it for me. We're issuing bonds for items that we've been talking about for in many cases since last August? Correct. September, all the planning. This is now just actually issuing them because it's time to go do the work. Correct. Thank you. Seeing no more requests to speak, Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, Mayor. I move approval of item 5A. Councilmember Hawkins. I'm going to second. We have a motion to second for 5A. Let's vote, please. Motion carries 7-0. Agenda item 5B, consider adoption of an ordinance considering all matters incident and related to issuance, sale, and delivery of up to $32,710,000 in principal amount of City of Denton General obligation refunding and improvement bonds. Thank you, Mayor. I ask Mr. Springer to also present this item. Thank you, Chuck. Thank you, Mayor and City Council. Our second item to consider for debt issuance, this is related to bonds authorized by the voters in the 2012 and 2014 election. We're planning to sell $4.4 million from the 2012 bond election and a total of $12.38 million from the 2014 election for $16.78 million of general obligation bonds. We're also proposing to refund approximately $15 million of outstanding general obligation debt. These bonds are at an interest rate of approximately about 5%. We can refund them at an interest rate of about 3%. So the additional amount is for proposed refunding. The savings is estimated at about $118,000 over 12 years of level savings. With that, I'll answer any questions you may have. So the parameters of this, again, we plan a competitive sale sometime later in May. The parameters ordinance in front of the council authorizes a maximum sale amount of $32.7 million, a final stated maturity of $2,036. The refunding must provide a minimum savings of 3.75% of the refunded bonds. And the delegation authority ends in October, but we plan this sale this May. Okay. Thank you. We have a card request to speak. You want to ask him a question first before? Sure. Go ahead. Thank you, Mayor. Sometimes when folks see an agenda item like this about refinancing, the conclusion that is sometimes drawn is that we are somehow delaying paying the debt or that we are trying to pay it out longer. But that's not the case, is it, here? This is sort of like when I had an interest on my house at 6% and then the mortgage rates went way down and I could refinance my house at 3% and save myself a good bit of money in interest over the life of the loan. Is that the same kind of thing that we're seeing here? It's similar to that. In other words, we're not extending the maturity at all. We're paying the outstanding debt that we're refunding over the same term just because we have lower interest rates. Our total payment each year will be less. So we do the refundings for savings. The City has an outstanding debt policy where that 3.75% minimum savings, we do that. Under federal tax law, we're limited how many times we can do a refunding. So we try to do it when interest rates are low as they are currently to reduce our outstanding principal and interest. And to follow up, we're authorizing you to do this if at the time that it happens that those rates are at that level so that we're seeing that significant savings. That's correct. And who experiences that savings? Well the taxpayers overall. In other words, the principal and interest is paid by a portion of the City's property tax rate. So as we experience those savings, it lowers the impact of the debt service property tax rate. Thank you. Okay. Seeing no more questions at this time, we have a speaker, Mr. Willie Hudspeth. If you'll come up and state your name and address, your time will begin. My name is Willie Hudspeth. I live at 623 Newton. Thank you, Councilperson, for letting me know how ignorant I am. The county government, the commissioners did something similar to me as you've done. You pointed out that. And the attorney. Well we had a meeting earlier. It was discussed then. And then the others communicated to me that, well, it's been on the books for so many months. You should have done it then. This is the very reason why so many citizens, and I'm going to get to this debt money that you're saying we're going to receive some benefits from. This is why so many citizens are saying enough's enough for people who seem to vote the same way. The decisions were made by the four. And we're tired of the consent agenda items that we can't talk about. But now I'm finding where you've got to come to the meeting during the day when you should be working. Well I can promise you this. You've made me feel like I'm stupid. That's probably not a good thing to do. Because now I'm going to go to work and I'm going to find out what's going on in this city. I have to spend the time. Doesn't seem like anybody else has the time. Maybe they don't. I don't see how anybody can have the time to do all this. I sure would like to know from you, how many of you knew about what was going on in that area where I was confused? Did you read all that information? Well good for you if you did. So I'm going to start reading it. Now this money that you're saying we're going to save by paying the debt off early, I sure would like to know how I'm going to receive some of that money in my savings. That's going to be saving to me. I don't see how I'm going to get it. My light bills are still going up. The water bill is still going up. I'm still having to pay for a container in my business that I don't use and I don't have a choice but to pay it. I don't see it. So if I'm saving money then I guess the person who pointed out my ignorance, because I didn't know everything about what was presented and it was presented here early enough for me to know it, so I'm ignorant, I'd like for him to show me how I'm supposed to save that money whenever he gets a chance to. All right. Chuck, I have one question. Thank you Mr. Hesbitt. You mentioned a savings and then you said level savings. I think I'm a little confused. So you said it's $118,000. That's not $118,000 per year, is that correct? Yes it was per year. Okay. I was saying we standardly try to make it a level savings. Okay. I got you. Instead of it. In terms of taking it in one year, a lump payment, try to spread it out over the life of the bonds that we're refunding on an even basis. So it'd be about $118,000 conservatively estimating a year over a 12-year period. Okay. All right. Thank you. Councilmember Rhoad. Thank you, Mayor. Chuck, I know a lot of these as part of being part of the bond programs of 2012 or 2014, there's places on the website you can go to find out some general information about it, but some of these issues are of great importance to folks. Street improvements, which streets are getting fixed, which traffic signals are going to be bettered, which sidewalks. There's $700,000 in sidewalks. Does that exist somewhere publicly that someone can find out which specific projects are being funded with this money that we're issuing through this vote today? Or if not, is there a way we could get some of those details put online shortly? I think we kind of have generally all of the projects within like street improvements that were going to be done. I'm not sure specifically if we have on the website exactly which ones are going to be done by each year's sale. We can get that information. I do think we have the sidewalk program, for instance, scheduled so we can at least prioritize. Yeah, I think that's helpful. Given how many people voted for this, and I think some of those items are of great interest nowadays and just seeing what's going on, I think it just helps kind of celebrate what we're funding and getting a sense of moving forward. Thanks. Thank you. Councilmember Johnson. Thank you, Mayor. I move approval of Item 5B. Councilmember Rodin. Second. We have a motion and a second. Let's vote, please. Motion carries, 7-0. Going on to Agenda Item 5C, consider adoption of six ordin ances of the City of Denton on the first reading to involuntarily annex lands containing six of the 15 reading annexations. I know we've got some modifications to that. So Agenda Item 5C. Mayor and Council, let me open on this, and then I think Ms . Bissett has some information to provide to you as well. This item relates to annexations that we were directed to consider over the last month or so, and recall that earlier in our meeting, we adopted some ordinances accepting non-annexation agreements. This item would pick up those very, very limited areas where non-annexation agreements were not pro-offered to the city. So since we had to post this item very broadly, and since we were so successful in getting these non-annexation agreements, and we have been able to whittle this particular agenda item down considerably, so let me address this very briefly . We will be striking any areas to be annexed in DH2, DH3, DH 4, PAA3. There are some very limited areas in DH14 and in PAA4. We will proceed on first reading tonight. And Ms. Bissett does have the captions to provide to you and can give you any additional detail about those properties about which we will proceed tonight. We do have a card wishing to speak. Mr. Willie Hesbuth, if you'll come down and state your name and address, your time will begin for agenda item 5C. My name is Willie Hesbuth. I live at 623 Newton. See, again, I need to do my homework, and I am going to. I'd like to know what the individuals think about being annexed. I hear the terminology that communicates that some, but I'm not clear as to what the citizens think about the annexation. And I'm at a disadvantage because I'm speaking before the presentation. So what I'm going to do is make notes. And then I'm going to then bring up items that are presented in the presentation that I didn't get to hear before I'm speaking now. Then I'm going to bring them up then, because this is out of order. Presentation should have been made, then I should speak. But if you didn't do that, that's okay. I learned how to play the game. And I've been doing this for years. So I will speak later, somewhere even tonight or next meeting, about the issues that are brought up after I've spoken. Anybody? See no questions from counsel? Do we read the captions? Is that it? Yes. And this is Amy Bissendorf, Director of Development Services. I do not have a presentation to make. I am here to read into the record the two captions associated with these potential annexations. There are two areas, as Ms. Burgess mentioned, DH14, which is a little over two acres. And then a group of properties that are all under one ownership in PAA4 that is approximately 853 acres. And with that, I'll go ahead and read the captions into the record. The first one reads, "An ordinance annexing an area of land to the city of Denton, Texas, generally identified as area DH14 of approximately 2.1021 acres located on the south side of Robinson Road, east of Thoroughbred Trail, west of Marbella 's Court, and more specifically identified in Exhibit A attached here to, which area is adjacent to and abuts the existing city limits of the city of Denton, Texas, extending the city limits so as to include the property within the city limits, granting to all the inhabitants of the property all the rights and privileges of other citizens and binding the inhabitants to all of the ordinances, resolutions, acts, and regulations of the city, providing inclusion of a service plan, providing for instructions for filing this ordinance and correction of the official city map, providing severability and conflict clauses, and providing an effective date." The second ordinance caption reads, "An ordinance annexing an area of land to the city of Denton, Texas, generally identified as area PAA4 of approximately 853.6143 acres located on the south side of Milam Road, north of Loop 288, east of I-35, and more specifically identified in Exhibit A attached here to, which area is adjacent to and abuts the existing city limits of the city of Denton, Texas, extending the city limits so as to include the property within the city limits, granting to all the inhabitants of the property all the rights and privileges of other citizens and binding the inhabitants to all of the ordinances, resolutions, acts, and regulations of the city, providing inclusion of a service plan, providing for instructions for filing this ordinance and correction of the official city map, providing severability and conflict clauses, and providing an effective date." I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. >> Councilmember Wasney. >> So originally, we had very large areas that were targeted for annexation, correct? >> Yes, that is correct. When we went through our agenda tonight, the AABBCCDDEE, those were also huge areas where those same citizens had signed non-annexation agreements, which postpones all of this action until 2020, so that we are now down to a very minute sum total of areas that are actually being annexed into the city. Is that correct? >> Yes, that is correct. We were originally looking at annexations in 10 areas. We were instructed by the City Council to offer non-annex ation agreements to all of the property owners in nine of those 10 areas. And every property owner in all nine of those areas has signed a non-annexation agreement with one exception. >> Thank you. >> Mayor Pro Tem. >> Thank you, Mayor. So there were a few people that got the non-annexation agreements, and then they chose not to sign them. They chose not to enter into a non-annexation agreement. >> One property owner received it and chose not to enter into it. That is correct. >> Are you sure that that person was able to receive the information? >> We have a returned receipt by certified mail. That is correct. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Okay. Seeing no further questions, Mayor Pro Tem. >> I move approval of 5C as presented by staff. >> Councilmember Rodin. >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. Let's vote on the board, please. >> Motion carries 7-0. We'll now proceed to public hearings. Agenda item 6A is continue a public hearing and consider adoption of an ordinance regarding amending subchapter 35.7.5, the Fry Street Overlay District to create a new sub-district and development standards. This is a continuation of the public hearing, so we are in the public hearing. The applicant has asked that this be withdrawn, but this is a public hearing and a continuation of a public hearing. So we will certainly take public testimony. I have no cards. But anybody wishing to speak on this item, please feel free to come down and state your name and address and your time will begin. This is for agenda item 6A. Anybody wishing to speak on agenda item 6A? >> Close the public hearing. >> One more time, agenda item 6A. Anybody wishing to speak? Okay. We will now close the public hearing. And the applicant had asked this to be withdrawn, so I believe no further action is required. Is that correct, Madam City Attorney? >> That is correct, Mr. Mayor. >> Question -- oh. There was a question. Yes. Councilmember Rodin. >> I had this question during our work session, and that has to do with why this keeps coming onto our agenda, even though the applicant is not interested in us hearing it. I understand we are the ones who continued it, so that is why it keeps coming back up. But what tools -- I guess this is a legal question -- what tools are at our disposal to keep from creating confusion to the public? If and when this does ever come before us, there is going to be significant interest in to be able to focus attention on when that day comes versus keep putting this on our agenda. What can we do now? What are our options? >> Well, Mr. Rodin, as you mentioned, this particular item did come forward because the council did continue the public hearing to this particular date certain, so staff was obligated to put this on the agenda, hence seeing it tonight and then receiving the announcement that it has in fact been withdrawn, necessitating the council take no action on this particular item. This matter or any other related to the Fry Street development will be handled in due course, just as we do all other zoning cases. So if there is another application that comes forward, we would have a requirement to issue a notice of the public hearing, publish that, and so a notice will come forward as it does in all other zone cases in the future as it relates to this particular development. >> So one other question. No action doesn't equate to not approving. Is that correct? >> No, this is a withdrawal. There is nothing for the council to act on. >> Thanks. >> Councilmember Johnson. >> Thank you, Mayor. I think for clarification though, if I remember correctly, the first time that this was on our agenda for a public hearing, it was either the day before or the day of the meeting, the applicant requested a continuation, if I remember correctly. And so once we continued it, it was on the agenda again, right, they asked for another continuation. So it seems like we were, I mean, to be fair, if they ask for a continuation and we say no, then we have to vote on their item even though they asked for a continuation. So we kind of didn't have a choice here. We had a choice. We could have said no, we won't continue it even though you 're not going to be prepared, which it just doesn't seem like that would have been the right thing to do either to them. >> Right. >> And then a public hearing, we've got an open public hearing, we need to get that public hearing closed. And so we can do that tonight and then take no actions. >> Okay, thanks. >> And I guess, Councilmember Rodin, because you had been talking about, it seemed like that the posting had stated on the previous postings that something about withdrawal, but this is the first time, unless I'm mistaken, this last sentence on this posting says the applicant has requested that this item be withdrawn because they are proposing additional amendments. Was that contained in the postings of the previous ones or is this new? >> Mayor, I'm sorry, I've slept since then, so maybe Ms. B issett can help us. >> The applicant made that request after the Council had continued the public hearing to this date, so the notice was put on there for everybody's benefit. >> Okay, so it wasn't on there in the past. >> That's correct. >> Okay, all right. So, Councilmember Tim. >> So they're withdrawn because they're proposing additional amendments. Does that mean that these additional amendments would go before P&C, before they come back? >> It will be in a new case and will start over again. I mean, the whole process was- >> An entirely new case. >> That's correct. >> That's not clear in the way that it was stated, but that 's helpful. Thank you. >> Yes, sir. On a withdrawn application, then they would need to start completely over on a brand new zone case. >> Councilmember Wasney. >> Yeah, I'm just happy to make that clear to the public that when an applicant withdraws, that it does start over again. So for the people who are listening, the Fry Street project will start over again and go through planning and zoning before it ever comes back to Council. Because there is a lot of interest in this project. >> Okay, any other questions before we move on from this item? Because there's no action to be taken. That's correct. >> No action to be taken. The item has been withdrawn by the applicant. >> All right, thank you. So we'll move on to agenda items. Agenda, I'm sorry. >> You did close the public hearing. >> I did close it. Yes, I did. I did close the public hearing. >> Yes, you did. >> Agenda item 6B, hold a public hearing and consider adoption of an ordinance regarding a change in the zoning classification from a neighborhood residential 4 in our 4 district to an employment center industrial ECI district on approximately 5.1 acres. >> Thank you, Mayor. Did you open the public hearing? >> I'll open. Yeah, we'll now open the public hearing. >> Thank you, Mayor. And Amy Bissett is our Director of Development Services. We'll present this case. Thank you, Amy. >> Thank you, Mayor and Councilmembers. If you'll give me just a moment, I'll get my presentation up for you. >> Thank you, Mayor. And what you're considering tonight is a rezoning for United Way of Denton County. And more specifically, they have applied for rezoning for a change from neighborhood residential 4 in our 4 district to ECI employment center industrial on approximately 5 acres. The project is located on the south side of Morse Street, approximately 295 feet west of Woodrow Lane. The current zoning is in our 4. The intent of the NR4 zoning district was established in 2002 with a city-wide rezoning. It reflected the existing low to moderate density single family residential areas along Morse Street. And the anticipated continuation of the single family context was contemplated with industrial and commercial uses fronting Woodrow Street, which you can see running north-south in the exhibit displayed above. And the property was previously owned by the Denton Housing Authority. ECI is the proposed zoning district, which you can see in the exhibit here that the current zoning on the left shows that there's a current boundary between ECI and NR4 that exists today. And their proposal is to extend the ECI further to the west to accommodate this project. ECI allows for professional office and community service uses. The surrounding properties to the north, east, and south are ECI zoned as well. And in 2014, the 2.3 acres just to the east was rezoned from NR4 to ECI. So we've seen a pattern at this point in time of this area growing in terms of this type of commerce. The future land use plan indicates that this area has been designated for business innovation use, which is intended to encourage business parks and offices and employment centers. It is a compatible land use adjacent to single family uses, which is certainly the case in this particular project. Rezoning to ECI would be considered consistent with the business innovation use and therefore consistent with our future land use plan. The considerations that staff analyzed, the property shape and the proximity to the other commercial uses limits its future use as residential. The ECI zoning designation would permit the intended office and community service uses and would be located close to other nonprofit and community uses that would be compatible. The surrounding land uses, as I pointed out, to the north, east, and south are commercial and industrial in nature. And the adjacent property to the east was just recently rez oned to ECI. The office uses would be required to conform to subchapter 13 of the DDC, specifically mitigating the impacts between the office uses and the adjacent single family properties. In order to approve a zoning amendment, the following criteria must be met. The proposed rezoning must conform to the land use element of the Denton Plan 2030, which would be the business innovation use, which in this case it does. The proposed rezoning must facilitate the adequate provision of transportation, water, sewer, schools, parks, and other public requirements and public convenience. The public notifications were mailed out on February 21st. 40 required notices were sent within a 200-foot radius and an additional 78 courtesy notices were sent within a 500-foot radius. To date, we have received one response in opposition. Based on the considerations presented and the requirements of the DDC, we do recommend approval and the Planning and Zoning Commission recommends approval as well by a vote of 7 to 0. They met on March 9th. The applicant is here. I'd like to introduce Lyle Drescher. He is with the United Way Board of Directors and he will present further information about this. >> We have a couple of questions. Do you all want them before or after the public testimony? We got Roden, Briggs, and Hawkins. >> Okay. All right. Fantastic. Yes. Mr. Drescher, if you'd like to come forward and state your name and address and your time will begin. >> Mr. Mayor and members of the Council and Mr. City Manager, my name is Lyle Drescher. I'm a United Way volunteer and I drew the short straw and am the chair of the Facilities Committee for United Way and for this facility. And I'd also like to just take a second to recognize all the support from the United Way Board of Directors and staff that are here in support of this application. So I think we have the majority of the house right at the present time. I think the staff report completely outlines exactly the purpose of this rezoning. The United Way is under contract with the Denton Housing Authority to purchase this 5.1 acres subject to the rezoning. The current United Way office space that is currently under lease is operating, you know, just slightly under 5,000 square feet and that includes offices and meeting room space and auditorium space. And with the increases of our needs to serve the community, individuals and families and taking on some additional roles and with partner agencies, obviously we need some additional space. We're proposing to build approximately 10,000 square feet of auditorium and meeting room space and then house the necessary administrative offices for United Way staff. This also allows us to partner with Denton Housing Authority and provide them some additional space routinely for the use with their clients and meeting with those clients and the various things that they do at the Denton Housing Authority. So this is going to work in great partnership with them. Early on, prior to our going before the Planning and Zoning Commission, we took the proactive approach and met with the neighborhood. We had two different neighborhood meetings. We had one at the MLK Center as well as meeting with the Sedna neighborhood group. Those went well. We had great feedback from both of those and so we've been energized with that area. We want to be a good neighbor. We continue to partner with them during the design process and keep them involved and engaged during that so they know what's going on and just be a part of what we're doing in Denton and particularly in that particular area. So I will be sit down and I'll be glad to answer any questions that you might have. Anybody have questions for the applicant? Thanks Lyle. Yeah, I was going through the P&Z minutes and they had spoke a little bit about, you know, the relationship with your project and the neighborhood and some of the protections that y'all were going to put in place and just that patch of trees that's going to be there. Can you speak a little bit to that? Yes. No, the picture's not up. We all got to imagine. The site plan that's in your packet, the aerial shows that cluster of trees right in the middle of the two lots right in the track. But looking at the subdivision requirements in the setback of the building, it appears to us that the building will be nestled fairly close to those trees but because of our need to accommodate the drainage requirements on the site, that with the detention and things that may be involved with that, we will be able to protect almost that entire tree canopy. So our intention is to not destroy any more trees than we would have to. Likewise, or in addition, the parking would be in the rear of the building which is onto the whatever direction is to the rear of the building which is in the more open spaced portion of that tract of land, thus not destroying any other trees unless absolutely necessary. If this does pass, is Gary Henderson going to get his own office? In the storage room. That's all I have. Thank you. Councilmember Briggs, do you have a question for the applicant or just for staff? Well, I did but it was pretty much answered. I was looking for placement of the building within this lot in the neighborhood and I was curious about that. So you addressed it with the trees and the parking. Yes, ma'am. I think that just looking at the site and again with the setback requirements, it looks to me like the building is going to be the furthest away from the residential area to the west and obviously closest to similar zoning to the other three other sides of the property. So we should be in pretty good shape. Councilmember Rodin? I do want to just publicly thank you all for your outreach to the neighborhood. I know I met with a few occasions prior to then. I even had lunch with the President of Sedna and Gary Henderson as well prior to those two meetings and they were well received. It's not often when we have developers do that, let alone one meeting, let alone two. I mean, you guys just really did a lot of outreach and I trust that you'll continue to do that throughout this process and so thank you for that. We're very pleased with the design architects that we have on board pending the rezoning and we feel like that they've got good experience with working with organizations and neighborhood groups and we feel like that that's going to be a good connection and they will help us accommodate and facilitate a lot of that activity and again keeping that neighborhood involved. Mayor Pro Tem? I want to pass on my thanks also for the work that you've done in reaching out to the neighborhood and getting feedback from them and listening to them and making adjustments accordingly. I was just curious, there is one house that's on this property that's there on Moore Street. Do you happen to remember the address of that house? I don't know, I really don't know. 1700 Block? I do not know. Okay, it's not important. Thanks. Thank you. Councilman Roden, you got one more? Yeah, I actually have a question for staff. Okay, let's get to the public comment if you would. Great. Yeah, because we have a couple more cards. Great. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. We've got another card. Greg Sacco, if you'll come state your name and address. Your time will begin. Thanks. My name is Greg Sacco and I'm at 207 Wellington Oaks Place here in Denton, Texas. First off, I want to say thank you to P&Z and to city staff . It's been a real joyous, harmonious and real nice ability for me to be able to say that city staff has really come along and helped us to develop and to figure out where and how zoning should be for this particular piece of property. As Lyle said, we have not acquired the property yet and it is subject to zoning. Number two, I wanted to thank the mayor and city council, city manager and our city attorney as well for your kind consideration for our project. It is a project of commitment and our goal as United Way of Denton County is to serve lives in our community. This will help us to facilitate serving more lives and benefiting more people in our community. Again, on behalf of the board of directors, on behalf of myself as the chairperson and our lifetime members for United Way, I just wanted to thank you. That's the only reason I came up and I'm happy to entertain any questions that you may have. Any questions? Seeing none, thank you. Those are all the cards that I have, but this is a public hearing. So anybody else wishing to speak, please come down, state your name and address and your time will begin. My name is Willie Hertz with 11623 Newton. I was at one of those meetings. It wasn't like they indicated that happened at those meetings. Question still remains that the people ask and I wondered, what are you going to do about the traffic problem that it's going to create? Can you put up the map that shows the area of, well, just put up what I'm going to tell you. I think it was near the end. Where is the street? Where is Morris Street? Let me see if I can get a bigger one up here. There's Morris Street here. That's Morris Street? That street is very densely occupied, two times the size of the street. That's Morris Street, that street is very densely occupied, two times of the day and both times are going to be impacted by when that building is going to be operating. What we didn't want is for you to go ahead and pass this before you determine what's going to happen to not create more of a problem traffic wise. That's what we wanted and we talked about in that meeting. We weren't upset, we just wondered. Well, that still hadn't been answered and it doesn't seem like it's going to be answered tonight. What you're doing now is you're passing the agreement or making, you're going to accept this situation without dealing with the traffic and then you'll deal with the traffic. I think that's backwards. My son is on that planning and zoning. Is he here? Okay, he'll be banned from family luncheons for a while. Pass that on to him. 7-0. I'll deal with him later. He's no longer a black person. That's another section. Okay. Now put up where you sent out the notifications and I'm going to show you my house and I didn't get the notification map. You have the notification map. I'm going to show you where my house is. This is one where I should have gotten a notification letter and I want to hear that it was certified so I can show that it wasn't. Thank you. What is this street right here? Morris. That's Morris. I stand corrected. I am not in the notification area. I thought that was a rude deal. All right. I stand corrected on that one. We were basically in agreement that it's a good thing that United Way is, that building is being put there. It will be an improvement to the property. It's just a traffic problem that we wish that you had dealt with before. We talked about the lighting, how bright those lights are going to be on that building. But the majority of the people said that's a good thing, that it will be lit down there and there will actually improve the area for transporting and things like that. So basically it was a pretty positive situation and we do. I too thank the United Way and the Housing Authority for coming to us first but they didn't ask us what we want. Well, they did but then they told us at the end what they were going to do. So that was a little bit backwards but still they came and talked to us and I think for the most part it's going to be a good improvement. Thank you, Mr. Hesped. This is a public hearing. Anybody else wishing to speak? Please come down and state your name and address and your time will begin. Anybody else wishing to speak? One more time. This is a public hearing. Okay. We will now close the public hearing. Councilmember Rodin. Thank you, Mayor. A couple questions for Amy. And Mr. Hutsmith, I was at both of those meetings and heard that concern about traffic and that's on my list of questions to ask about. And I know we've discussed that particular intersection for a while. And I understand that traffic counts all play into what war rants a signal or what doesn't. Once this comes online and we do have that additional traffic as a result of that, I'd like to request that we have a new traffic study out there. What's the proper procedure to be able to kind of get that in motion now? Well, actually the rezoning is the first step in the process for the applicant. And what we'll need to follow will be platting. And at that point in time, the plat will require a traffic impact analysis and will require the demonstration of adequate mobility and mitigation for the traffic that might be created. Gotcha. And I hear that and I understand that. Anytime we're dealing with school areas, you get some kind of anomalies to typical traffic patterns, which this is one. In fact, there's even Fred Moore up the road. And so certain times a day, and I think that's a concern, the time of day which workers will be coming and going are also the same time of day people are coming to Rivera picking up, dropping off kids. So in addition to that, I guess I'm just floating the direction to staff that we perhaps get some additional eyes on the ground once this kind of goes up and traffic starts kind of going in there in case those normal analysis are proved to be perhaps off kilter a little bit. Absolutely. OK, thanks. The other question I had had to do with a slide you put up. I think it was the second slide. It's when you're talking about business innovation areas. Is it this one? Yes. And my concern with that is this kind of ambiguous shading that goes in there. And in fact, I voted against the ECI that you talked about that came before us about a year ago because my concern was encroachment. If ECI kept going, then what's to stop it from kind of pl owing through those homes? What I like about this particular development is that while it's ECI, we know what we're getting there and it's office use and it's a great buffer in between light industrial and single family homes. And I think it'll be a great neighbor. My concern though, and I just want to clarify because I don 't think this is the case, you mentioned this area is for business innovation, but it's overlapping some existing single family homes, which to anyone watching could get concerned about. Can you clarify what that color scheme is supposed to tell us? Absolutely. So with a future land use map, it is not intended to have hard boundaries or be zoning boundaries. It is intended to show general areas of intent for the future. And those transitions in shading that you see are intended to be transitional points from one use to another use or one area to another area. In this particular case, business innovation can be compatible with residential with the appropriate transition points and with the appropriate uses in the transition. And staff agrees with that, that this particular use does provide that transition. And related to that transition, I also want to clarify more specifically the questions about trees and buffers. In this case, we will require a type D buffer, which is our most restrictive buffer that we have available to us. It's 30 feet and will require eight trees and 20 shrubs for every 100 linear feet. So it is an intensive buffer that will be provided. Thanks for clarifying. Council Member Briggs. Most of my questions were answered about the traffic with Councilman Roden, but is there just going to be one way in and one way out? Like one more straight? I think that is one of the questions that will have to be answered through the platting and site planning process. At this point, until the rezoning takes place, they haven't entered into that level of site design yet. And it will depend on the requirements through the platting and site planning. But that will be looked at? Absolutely. Yes, ma'am. Thanks. Any other questions? Seeing none, Council Member Johnson. Thank you, Mayor. Before I make this motion, I want to put some conditions on the applicant. Number one, Dr. Betty Myers has to be the public speaker for United Way from now on because she just makes everybody smile. So I'd highly recommend that. Gary needs his own office because he's the hardest working servant in Denton County. I do have one question, serious question for the applicant though, and whether Lyle or Gary can answer is how many full-time employees do you expect will be at this facility all day? Two parts to that question. Councilman, in terms of employees, we have 10 employees at this point. We'll run 10, 15, 20 interns from UNT, TWU over a given semester. But throughout the day, we'll have community members, volunteers come in and out of the building to provide services. For example, this month we'll have 10 to 15 volunteers preparing tax returns through our VITA program during the day at a time that's convenient for clients to access those services. So it'll ebb and flow and there'll be more than just staff. So in terms of your typical, because I share some of the concerns about traffic, just given there's not a signal there. So at your 7.30 to 8.30 a.m., how many people typically? I know you're there at like five. I'm going to say I never get to work before 10. So I'm just kidding. It'll be 10 employees and five interns. 10 people. We understand this is a long-term project. This is a vision our board has for our organization that will take us 10, 20 years into the future. So we expect that to grow as the needs of Denton County grow as well. Okay. Thank you. So with that, what's that? Yeah. You're making the motion, right? Was it okay to ask a question? Oh, yeah. No, I just thought you were going to sign off about making a motion. It's 8 o'clock. It's 8.05. The game was last night, Mayor. So with that, I will gladly make the motion to approve item 6A. I don't know about the condition of Gary having his own office, but I guess I'll second. We got a motion to second. I just want to take just a moment and... Clarification. I said 6A. I meant 6B. 6B. Okay. Second on 6B? Yes. Thank you. Before we vote, I just want to just say just a couple of words of thanks and gratitude for United Way of Denton County and all the board members who just serve selflessly. And honestly, Gary, as I've gotten to know you being mayor, I've thoroughly enjoyed that. He is not at the office at 5 a.m. He's at the gym at 530 a.m. because I see him there quite often. Well, he's probably there more often than I am. But United Way has really worked as a good partner with the City of Denton on a couple of new initiatives that we're doing. And I think it was vital that we have your help and your cooperation because you really know the lifeblood of this county and the nonprofits and just your commitment to serving the people of the City of Denton and the County of Denton. So thank you all so much for that. And what I really like about this, no more lease payments. Yes, sir. You're going to own your own building. You're going to be there 15 or 20 years and after a while, you're not going to have any, but you're building something. So thank you all so much for what you do for our city and our county and especially partnering with us and the initiatives that we have moving forward. All right. Let's go. It's my pleasure to call for a vote on this item, Agenda 6B . Let's vote on the board, please. Motion carries 7-0. I do have one more comment, Madam City Attorney. Is that okay? I see Sherri McDade out in the audience, the Denton Housing Authority. Thank you so much also for what you do for the residents of Denton County and for your partnership with United Way. So thank you very much. Thank you for that. Okay. Agenda Item 6C. I hold a public hearing. Consider adoption of an ordinance regarding a specific use permit to allow multifamily dwellings, neighborhood residential mixed youth 12 NRMU-12. Thank you, Mayor. And I will ask Ms. Bissett if she will come present this item as well. Thank you, Mayor and council members. What you're considering with this item is an application for a specific use permit to allow multifamily dwelling units on approximately .8 acres. This is within a neighborhood residential mixed youth 12 zoning district. More specifically, this is located on the southeast corner of Talia Farrow Street and North Elm Street. You can see here on the exhibit the subject property. The current zoning map shows that the properties right along Elm Street here are zoned NRMU-12. This particular zoning district does permit multifamily dwellings, but it requires a specific use permit. The adjacent properties are also zoned NRMU-12. The future land use map does indicate low density residential in this area. And the adjacent properties are residential as well. The interesting thing about this particular property is that the two streets that run north and south on either side of it are couplet streets that are utilized by citizens as regional thoroughfares, meaning they're pretty heavily trafficked. And in this particular case, the applicant is proposing that the access to the multifamily units would be off of Talia Farrow Street. It is unlikely in this particular case that a single-family residential development would be compatible with these highly trafficked thoroughfares. You would have a home with a driveway where somebody's backing out of that driveway into a very heavily trafficked area. And so when staff looked at this and analyzed it, we felt like this would be a compatible use, considering those constraints with the thoroughfares running north and south. While this is a multifamily project, they're proposing two story buildings and one single-story building with a total of nine units. So it's low density for multifamily and not adding a lot of density in a specific area. And this shows the site plan that does show the access point. You can see it on the north end here off of Talia Farrow. Here are the elevations of the building and color render ings. The landscape plan has already been submitted as well, along with the buffering to protect the single-family residential nearby. The considerations that we looked at as we analyzed this case. The NRMU-12 zoning was actually established in 2002, anticipating multifamily development in this area. So the rezoning took place with the intent of facilitating multifamily. They are consistent in scale and density of the surrounding properties. With the arterial thoroughfares, we believe that that would inhibit low density residential patterns. The project does comply with the screening methods between single-family uses and complies with the criteria for approval of an SUP in the DDC. Public notifications were mailed on February 21st. 21 required notifications were sent to property owners within 200 feet. An additional 92 courtesy notices were sent. To date, we have received no responses in opposition or in favor. Based on the considerations presented and the requirements of the DDC, staff recommends approval. The proposed -- with the following condition, which is that the proposed development shall substantially comply with the site plan, building elev ations and landscape plan. The planning and zoning commission also recommends approval by a vote of 7 to 0 at their meeting on March 9th. I believe that the applicant is here and could present additional information or I'm happy to answer any questions. >> Failed to open the public hearing at the beginning, so I will open the public hearing now. So the public hearing is now open. Councilmember Briggs, you had a request to speak. Did you withdraw that? Okay. All right. Okay. So this is a public hearing. If the applicant is here, would like to speak, come on down , state your name and address, and your time will begin. If you don't, that's okay. >> Evening. Mayor and council. I'm Tim Beatty. I reside at 2459 West Blackjack Road, Harvard, Texas. Staff did a great job presenting this, but I am here. If any of y'all have any questions, I'll try to clarify. >> Sure. Any questions for the applicant? Are you trying to push your -- no, go ahead. Yes. Councilmember Briggs, yes. >> So my original question is, so there's two story buildings and then one single multifamily building, nine units. Does that mean nine individual doors? Like how many -- >> There'd be nine individual front doors. >> Front doors. Okay. >> There is back doors. >> Right. Yeah. >> Nine units is all that's allowed in this particular area . >> Okay. >> On this size lot. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Yes. >> Any other questions for the applicant? Seeing none, Tim. >> Okay. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> This is a public hearing. Anybody else wishing to speak on this item? Anybody else wishing to speak on this item? This is a public hearing. Seeing none, we will now close the public hearing. Councilmember Johnson. >> Thank you, Mayor. I would like to move approval to item 6C. >> Mayor Pro Tem. >> Second. >> We have a motion and a second. Let's vote on the board, please, for item 6C. Motion carries, 7-0. Moving on to public hearing item 6D, hold a public hearing, consider rezoning from a neighborhood residential 2 in our 2 district to a neighborhood residential mixed use in our MU district. And with that, I will open the public hearing. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And I will ask Ms. Bissett if she will present this item as well. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mayor and councilmembers. This item is a rezoning request from a neighborhood residential 2 zoning district to a neighborhood residential mixed use district. It's on approximately 6.2 acres. It is located on the northwest corner of north Bonnie Bray street and west Windsor drive. There's a more specific site location, northwest corner of Windsor and Bonnie Bray. What is proposed on this particular site with this rezoning request would be town homes. The current zoning today is NR2 and the proposed zoning is NRMU. The future land use plan calls for neighborhood mixed use which does allow for NRMU 12 and NRMU districts. So this particular rezoning request is consistent with the future land use plan. Considerations as we took a look at this is that the proposed zoning is consistent with the future land use designation of the property. The location at the intersection of two secondary arterial streets and the proximity to North Lakes Park makes it an ideal location for neighborhood retail service and employment uses or moderate density as a transition to the single family neighborhoods that are to the west. There are some interesting constraints to this particular site that make it unlikely that neighborhood residential development will occur as it 's currently zoned as NR2. Specifically if you'll take a look at the exhibit, the site is outlined in black here. There is considerable encumbrance of floodplain on the adjacent property as well as the site. And if you will notice to the west of the site is a gas well and production site. The proposed use here is a protected use because it is a dwelling unit and so the reverse setback would apply here and they would have to maintain a 250 foot reverse setback. Because of that, while there's a considerable amount of land there among those tracks, the majority of it is undevelopable and so the NRMU is a good transition with those town homes into the neighborhoods to the west. Public notifications were mailed out on February 17th. Six required notices were sent by certified mail and six additional courtesy notices were sent by regular mail. To date we've received one response in favor. Staff and the Planning and Zoning Commission recommend approval. Planning and Zoning voted 7 to 0. And I do believe that the applicant is here and I'm happy to answer any questions. Any questions for staff? This is a public hearing. Any questions for staff before public testimony? Council Member Briggs? Some of the development was in floodplain. Is that? There's the site. Some of the site is in the floodplain that's being rezoned. That is correct. Okay. So they would have to follow all of our requirements in terms of not building in the floodplain and the entire site. They wouldn't be able to build on the entire site. Okay. Thanks. Council Member Hawkins? Yeah. I had a couple of things written down. The ESA is embedded or something. Could you address that? Am I on the right one? I'm not sure. Hold on. I shouldn't have ran to the right screen. If you'll give me a minute during the public hearing I'll see if I can get some additional details for you. Okay. Sorry. Okay. Yeah. The Council Member Briggs? Is the gas well, is that an active well? It is. It is an active site today. That's correct. Okay. Seeing no more questions, we will go ahead and solicit public testimony. So this is a public hearing. I don't think I have any cards for this one, but it is a public hearing. Everybody wishing to speak, please come down and state your name, address, and your time will begin. My name is Greg Edwards. Represent the applicant, Greg Edwards Engineering Services, our address 1621 Amanda Court, Ponder, Texas. Basically, I'm just here primarily if you have any questions. The application, as I understand it, is based on the current future land use plan and is compatible. Our client is looking forward to try to put approximately 40 single family town home residences on this. With the floodplain in its current situation, we have about two acres out of the floodplain. We understand we're going to have to do a floodplain modification. I've finally gotten the information from FEMA and gotten a preliminary study to Earl and to Chad and waiting on a meeting so we can talk about what procedures we're going to need to do to accomplish that. We're looking forward and hopefully we can come to you with some sketches and renderings of a very attractive single family, pedestrian oriented community in this location right across from the park. We think this is an exciting opportunity for our clients and hope you agree. Like the City Planning and Zoning Commission, I realize that this is just the first step and there's a lot of things that have to happen before we can come to that final picture and get us over this required step. Thank you. We have a question. Council Member Wasney. Would you repeat what you said about the two acres in the floodplain? Of the six acres, I think it was reported at Planning and Z oning that approximately 2.1 acres was out of the floodplain. I think that may be generous based on the FEMA mapping on the property. I do know that the FEMA mapping is based on a two lane road for Bonnie Bray with a small bridge. It's now a four lane facility with multiple box culverts. I do know that Windsor Drive was modeled as a two lane facility with a very small bridge. It is now a four lane facility with multiple box culverts. And so we're very hopeful that we can get through the FEMA processes approximately four acres of this site out of the floodplain. But the City of Danton also has requirements when it comes to wetlands. So it's not just FEMA. If Amy could come up and address. Thank you. I think what Mr. Edwards is referring to is a process by which we would evaluate the FEMA map and determine whether it's accurate or there might be some changes that would be made to it. And that is a process whereby they would work directly with FEMA. We do certainly have regulations as well. And there is some environmentally sensitive area within this property. And if they were to encroach on that, we would require an alternative development plan for that ESA. And that would come during the platting process as we began to look further at the site and how we were going to accommodate it. But if we approve this tonight, does that platting process also come to this council for approval? The plat goes to the planning and zoning commission for approval. But an alternative ESA would come to the City Council for approval. Would it make more sense to put all of this in writing first? That would be a considerable expense for the applicant to make without knowing whether they could ultimately develop the property. The zoning is typically a requirement before they would close on the property. Got it. Okay. Thanks. Mayor Pro Tem. What we're talking about also is in the FEMA maps, you're talking about the standard 100 year flood plain. But you're also talking then about what the city goes beyond that, which is the 100 year flood plain of a fully developed watershed. Is that correct? You're getting a little bit outside of my wheelhouse and I might ask Earl Escobar to come down here and answer that question. Okay. Still sitting. There he is. Earl's with engineering and this is more in his purview. Good evening, Mayor and members of the council. To answer your question, the city's regulations regarding floodplains are a little bit more stringent than FEMA requirements. We do account for fully developed conditions as opposed to FEMA regulations, which is usually current conditions. But those maps are the fully developed flood plain boundaries are information that comes not developed by the city but by FEMA, correct? That's correct. Okay. Thank you. Councilmember Roeben. I guess I just want to clarify what we're doing here, which is just simply a zoning change request. So as I understand it, Amy, if the current owner wanted to develop according to the current zoning, which is NR2, they'd have to go through this whole process and deal with floodplains and ESAs and things like that to develop as it is now. That is correct. And so what's being requested is not a particular development, it's not a particular project, it's not a particular -- we're not approving any site plan or anything. We're just saying do we want the zoning to go up from NR2 to NRMU? Right. And is the zoning compatible? Notwithstanding all that other stuff. Right. That's correct. Just to be clear. Thanks. Okay. I see no more questions. Any other questions for the public hearing? Do we have any questions for -- was his time -- is there anything else you'd like to say? I think you probably still have some time. I'm just here for any questions. Any questions for the applicant? Councilmember Hawkins. I just had one on the fire lane. Can you kind of show where that would be or on the map? The fire lane? Yeah. No, that'd be a site plan. That'd be on the site plan too. Okay. I apologize. It's all right. Thank you. Councilmember Briggs. On the -- I guess this is for Amy. Do you know the 250-foot minimum setback from the gas well, is that from the property line or would that have to be where a building would be located within the property to reach that? It is the protected use itself, so it would be the building . And it would be to the edge of the drilling and production site, to the edge of the building would be a minimum of 250 feet. Okay. Okay. Any other questions? Councilmember Roden. Again, I'm just trying to make sure we're all clear on the same page or at least make sure I'm understanding this right. If someone were to develop this now, according to current zoning, they'd also have to follow the same setback requirements from the gas drilling. So approving this change doesn't change any of that. Okay. Thanks. Any other questions for the applicant? Seeing none. Thank you. This is a public hearing. Anybody wishing to speak? Anybody wishing to speak? This is a public hearing. Seeing none, we will now close the public hearing. Any discussion from my colleagues or questions for staff or the chair would entertain a motion? Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, Mayor. I move approval of item 6D. Councilmember Roden. Second. We have a motion and a second. Let's vote on the board, please. Motion carries 5 to 2. Agenda item 6A. I mean 6E, excuse me. Hold the first of two public hearings for annexation of approximately 23.24 acres, acre property generally located on the west side of Griesling Road, approximately 700 feet south of East University Drive. You open the public hearing. I will now open the public hearing. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And I'll ask Ms. Bissett if she would present this public hearing. Thank you, Amy. Thank you, Mayor and Councilmembers. This is the first of two public hearings to consider annex ing this particular piece of property. The background on this is that this is a piece of property that was identified as a part of our 2010 annexation plan. We have an existing non-annexation agreement with them until 2020. Part of that non-annexation agreement states that the property must remain in ag or wildlife use and that no development is permitted. If development is undertaken at that point in time, then annexation becomes necessary. The owner has initiated this request for annexation with the intent to develop an industrial park and preliminary plat application triggers automatic annex ation. As I previously stated, this is the first of two public hearings. The second one will be next week, April 12th. And then the first reading of the ordinance would be May 3 rd and the second reading and the adoption of the annexation ordinance would be on June 7 th. And I'm happy to answer any questions. Councilmember Wasney. Just to confirm that this is a voluntary annexation. It is. This is the intent of the property owner to develop. That is correct. Okay. Any questions for staff? This is a public hearing. The council will take no action because this is the first of two public hearings. But this is a public hearing. Anybody wishing to speak on this item, please feel free to come down, state your name and address and your time will begin. Anyone wishing to speak? One more time. Anyone wishing to speak? We will now close the public hearing and no action is required on this item. We will now move to agenda item 6F. Hold the first of two public hearings to consider annexing eight properties identified by the following property identification numbers. D.H. 2, D.H. 3, P.A.A. 1, P.A. 3, P.A. 4 and 202610 and 377 29. Chair and council, this is the first of two public hearings associated with those eight listed properties. However, all eight properties have in fact turned in non- annexation agreements. I do note that there is one blue card with regard to this item. So it would be appropriate to take those comments. But I will advise the council that there is no need to take any action at this time and we would not be bringing forward annexation ordinances because we have received these non-annexation agreements. So you will not be seeing ordinances with regard to these properties and they will roll around for consideration to the council after the expiration of these agreements or just before they expire in approximately four years. Okay, this is a public hearing. I have a card. LaDonna Pokras, if you'll come down and state your name and address, your time will begin. Good evening, Mayor Watson, Council. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak. We are, I'm LaDonna Pokras, 9080 Wolf Run, Ponder, Texas. I am part of PAA1 and we did sign our opt-out agreement. I want to take the opportunity to thank you for the opt-out . We still are objecting to being even considered for annex ation. But you know, back in 2010 when we started all this, with all the meetings and all everyone coming together, you know, we asked for the 10-year opt-out , but we were given five. And then year four last came back and we got one more. Now we're getting four. So we're up to the 10 we asked for in the beginning. So what I would ask the council to consider is the non-anne xation to go on until such time as the property owner sells or whatever. When we came and signed our opt-out agreements, we asked questions, but they were not properly answered. We have asked, but yet we have not gotten an answer as to why some properties are totally being ignored in the annexation. And the city is losing a lot of money by not annexation, but they still want to proceed and annex those that will not bring in that much money. You don't offer anything to us, but yet you want our properties. So I ask for a non-annexation permanently until such time as the property owners sell or whatever. But for future consideration that we not be annexed, because we're going to start this mess all over again come 2020, because there's no one in P AA1 that is going to sell to develop or anything that is a nice, quiet area. We intend to keep it that way. We have restrictions that do not allow any move-ins, so we don't have a lot of mobile homes. It is clean, it is neat, not like what is going in on Mosh Branch and Jim Crystal. There's a building, a move-in there, and I'm surprised the city allowed that. Why they didn't have them construct a building instead of moving in a modular building. Like I said, our area has restrictions against that, but yet that's the kind of things we're looking at we don't want. So that puts another red flag up as to why we do not want to be annexed by Denton. The fact that Jim Crystal, last year when they redid Jim Crystal, instead of doing it properly, they did it halfway, now it's already buckling and it's getting really rutted out from all the trucks and all the traffic on it. So in a few years you're going to have to go back and redo it again. So you're wasting city money. So the whole point is why continue wasting money on trying to annex properties that do not want to be annexed, because obviously you're not going to give us anything and we're not going to get anything. So I thank you for your time and for the four years we get to stay as we are right now. Thank you. This is a public hearing. Anybody else wishing to speak? Anybody else wishing to speak? We will now close the public hearing and it's my understanding there's no action to be taken on this agenda item, is that correct? That's correct, Mr. Mayor. No action is taken. All right. And we have withdrawn agenda item 6G. So now we'll move on to agenda item 7 of our meeting, which is I don't think we need to review the procedure. 7B was received schedule citizen reports from members of the public. Mr. Willie Hudspeth, if you'll come downstate your name and address, your time will begin. My name is Willie Hudspeth. I live in 623 Newton. The reason that I've requested that my agenda item to speak to the council is on here last is because I'm protesting that it shouldn't be on here to do citizens like that. You put them on the end. If they presented to you several times, you should be encouraging that, that citizen's input. Second thing that I'm, reason that I'm here tonight is to keep in the forefront the Ryan High School area walking path, that something be done about that. I was at another location today. It's at Windsor and 377. There are no, well, there's a crossing path, but the students who are crossing can't make it all the way across the street before the light changes. So every time I see one of these, I'm going to mention it to you. I know you'll look at me and think, "How many more minutes do I have to go?" And you'll be glad when I stop talking, "Fine. Kid gets hurt, your attention will change, I'm pretty sure ." So that's about that. The last thing, ethics. The question needs to be asked of the person who has got a questionable ethics concern from me and others is the Buckeyes issue. This question needs to be asked and answered. At the forum, the question was asked and the comment was, " I'm not making any money on that deal." Question should have been asked, "Is your company making money off the deal?" That's all I'll say about that. Secondly, falls under ethics, but it's really not you, but I just want to make the comment. The fire department has no business having a forum. They're paid by the city of Denton. I know it's not the fire department. Let me clarify that. The union, that's just like the workers telling the bosses what they're going to do. Then they pick candidates. They always pick the incumbents, I notice, and they have no business, my personal opinion, picking who they're going to vote for. That's like saying, "I'm only going to go put out your fire at your house if you're the one that I voted for." They have no business doing that, my thought only. Lastly, and the last issue is ... I'm trying to see how to phrase this. Well, there's no way to say it nicely. Well, there is, but I don't want to do that. Struggling with God here. What happened tonight with me being corrected by some to say, "Shame on you if you don't make the meetings," was inappropriate. Perhaps that should have been made to me personally, not in front of everyone. Well, that's ... Well, I'm going to tell you. I'll deal with that later. Thank you. Thank you. Mayor Pro Tem. Mr. Chesmuth, I have a question. I apologize if I came across that way. That was certainly not my intent. I want to ask a question in a way that ... Regarding one of the comments that you brought up about East McKinney Street and the pathway for the students who don't have other transportation. I'm wanting to know, were you aware that there was an article in the Denton Record Chronicle today announcing an agreement that has been crafted between the school district and DCTA for bus service for students who would like to use the bus in order to get from their homes along that East McKinney corridor and the school. That came out today, and that's a result of the conversations that we had in a meeting, a joint meeting between the school board and the city council a couple of months ago. They finally worked that out, and they're in a pilot program that has started. I think it started Monday. They wanted to be careful not to start it on April Fool's Day for people to think that it was a joke or something. Are you aware that there has been an attempt to address that situation on a temporary basis, realizing that we're going to be doing construction and rebuilding that road and building sidewalks in a fairly short period of time compared to the time that it's been since the school opened? No, to answer your question, no, but I knew that those discussions were being had. I knew that you were talking about that possibility. I wanted to bring that up in a way. Again, I don't mean to say you're at any fault for not knowing that. There's a lot of information that comes out from the city and that comes out from the school district, and it's hard to keep up with it. We did a volunteering up here, spent a lot of our energy doing that. I get to spend more of my time on that because I'm not gain fully employed like you are. I apologize for coming across that way. That was not my intent. I just wanted to make sure that it was clear that there was a lot of details available about what it is that we're discussing. In fact, there's good news to share about the East McKinney situation. I wonder how I'm going to feel if someone else gets killed because they didn't get on that bus. I guess what I would just say is, well, we're trying. We tried. I guess that's all we can do is try. That's good. That's a good, something is good that's happening, so I have to say that. Any other questions? Seeing none, thank you, sir. Thank you. Oh, Dalton, you got, there's a, oh, okay, yeah, okay. All right, we're going to go to concluding items. Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, Mayor. A couple of items. First of all, for our city manager, based on what Dalton Allen said, I would like for you to do some exploration with the possibility of a partnership between our police department and the UNT forensic lab, and then just get back to us probably in an informal staff report or work session, whichever you think is best. Also, I'd like to take a minute to reflect back. A couple of months ago, we had a council meeting. It was not a cold and blustery night because we haven't had any of those this year, but it was a fairly cool and uncomfortable night, and you may recall there was a discussion with the municipal electric about a substation off of Spencer Road. There was a gentleman here that wanted to speak to us on that because he had a question. He was representing the VFW, and he was concerned about the possibility that that location for the substation was going to somehow negatively impact their building and where they conduct business. He got that answer satisfied and left, but he was using a new lift for the motorized scooter that he uses to get around. Three city staff members stayed a long time after the meeting was over trying to help him get that thing to work, and they kind of rigged it in a way that it would sort of work, and then one of them followed him home to make sure that the machine didn't fall off. So, I've sent notes to them and I've sent notes to their bosses, but I want to publicly recognize Brandon Hoban with the Denton Police Department. He stands here every night and he protects us from Willie and the rest. So it's easy duty because Mr. Hatspeth is a lot of bark, but he's a lot of love under all of that. Chuck Sears with Denton Municipal Electric and Aaron Frick ie who is a contractor with Denton Municipal Electric. Those three guys took a lot of extra time, and I saw the gentleman about two days later in Kroger, and I said, "Well, I saw you at the council meeting the other day." He said, "You know what I'm here doing?" I said, "No." He said, "I'm buying gift cards for those three guys." They went way above and beyond. That's so unusual for city staff. I said, "Actually, no. That's not unusual at all. That's par for the course for our city staff." But it was great that he recognized him and I thought that we ought to recognize him. Thank you for keeping us safe every week, Brandon. Council Member Wasney. Yeah, I want to second Councilman Gregory with the request of the city manager to talk to our police chief on this strategic partnership with UNT on the crime lab, but also to ask the police chief about the addition of a crime scene tech in our upcoming budget and what his input is on that additional staff member and whether or not we need that. As we grow, it's certainly something that I think it sounds like we have a hole to fill and I appreciate that. Thank you. Council Member Briggs. Okay. I have a few. I would like to ask for an update on the Mingo Road Bridge. This has been out and closed for a while. Also in regards to that, a public safety analysis regarding its closure, like if they're having any issues with it. Also McKinney Street tonight, we on the consent agenda approved a utility relocations design project for Fort Worth Drive and I believe this is something we have to do for McKinney Street no matter if we own it or not, but I would also like to have an update for council on the progress of this expansion periodically just because it's so important to the citizens and also the conversations with TechStat if we have any updates on that. Also there's been some concern and talk on social media about pensions. So I would like to, this is clearly out of my element and I don't really know much, so a staff report or work session on pension obligations and what impact the stock market's return in 2015 and portfolio performances had on the city's pension liability. How we track it, that type of thing. Let's see. And last, also, like in a situation tonight where an item is pulled but a neighborhood had opposed that item over 20 percent, what happens, is it true they have to do that each time again because I'm not familiar with that. So just kind of that process. That's it. Councilmember Rodin? Leadership Denton is one of those great gatherings of folks . They essentially take some up and coming leaders in the community, train them in the ins and outs of everything relating to the city, to business, to government, to kind of prepare them for leadership in the next generation in Denton. The last, at the end of their year they do a big presentation on a project they've been working on. The last four years, some notable ones that I recall, Welcome Center four years ago was one that they proposed and we're now seeing that come online. Mentor Denton, they did a proposal on that and kind of how to get businesses involved. Downtown parking last year, which was well attended and a number of those suggestions we are now implementing as a result of the conversation they started. They're doing their final presentation for this year's class this Thursday night at 5 30 at the Denton Public Safety Training Center. It's on specifically on the topic of tech economic development in Denton. So it's an appropriate topic for us. In the past several council members have attended so that they could hear what those suggestions are. So I invite my colleagues and of course it's open to the public so anyone please come. Councilmember Hawkins? Thank you Mayor. I want to invite everybody this Sunday to come to Harvest House at 2 p.m. Scrap Denton is hosting a Rebel Craft Rumble and I'm going to be MCing that with my friend Jill Jester and you're encouraged to dress up like a superhero and you're going to watch three teams battle in some sort of scrap competition. I've never seen this before and they're raising money for Scrap Denton's education program. So it should be a lot of fun. So come on out. Thank you. I've got about 20. Just kidding. Just got a couple. Kathleen. Oh it looks good. Kathleen. A couple things. I wanted to give a shout out to UNT. They had a Make a Difference Day on Saturday. I didn't know it was happening on Saturday but as I was driving around town I saw a bunch of UNT students picking up trash in different locations throughout the community. Stopped. Just asked them what's going on. They were doing. I mean they were everywhere. So really a shout out to them. It's all the different social organizations of UNT. They get together and have a big event where they go out and do things in the community. Wanted to give a shout out to DASF, Denton Animal Support Foundation, in conjunction with our Linda McNatt Animal Care and Adoption Center have implemented what's called a Safe Haven program and what that is is when you have unfortunate situations where people are involved in domestic violence and there's pets involved, most often times those pets are given up to the shelter for adoption. And so these people lose their pets. But the Adoption Center has entered into agreement with them where they will take those pets, foster them or keep them for a time until those owners are so situated where they can come back and reclaim those pets. I just think that is a wonderful, creative and very compassionate program. So shout out to them and thanks so much for Woody who was a big part of that and took seven months to develop that program. So I really want to thank them for that. Let's see. Bonnie Bray GIS, I think we're going to have an update on that as far as GIS and AIS at the corner of Bonnie Bray and Hickory Street. Had a citizen ask me how can citizens buy bonds that the city of Denton is issuing that people wanted to invest in their own community? So I didn't know the answer to that question. I think that's a good, I think that's a worthy question to be answered. And how can they do that? Is there a way to save the city some money and things such as that? The other one is I've had several conversations actually about the event center down at the on Hickory Street and I don't recall and we might have talked about it but I like to get a work session on this or something, preferably a work session, really try to ferret this out is how, if and how that event center will affect the training center because I don't know how many events they're holding on the weekends or things such as that. So just want to make sure that we have a full understanding of how the events there will impact the utilization of our training center in that regard. Girl Scouts of Denton is looking for a board member from Denton. They say that they have the largest group of Girl Scouts of Denton County in Denton but they do not have a board member that can serve and help them with the Denton community. So they wanted me to sort of just put that out there and if anybody's interested they drop me an email and I can get you in touch with the people that need to be. And last thing is we've talked about these escrow agreements where developers can deposit money in lieu of sidewalks, in lieu of streets or infrastructure, not infrastructure, but public improvements and of course there's the ordinance that if you have, if it's over ten years and that particular development does not get done or that improvement does not get done by the city, then the developer is entitled to a refund of that. But I've never known, is that at the developer's request or should we as a city when we see that and we have a report on that and if they're expired, go ahead and take a proactive approach to issue those refunds. So not sure how that works, would like some kind of just update or report on that. Let me make sure I got them all. That's pretty quick though. Yes. So that's it. The others, they just kept adding up. So if any other comments, if not, we will stand adjourned at 854.