Dec 08, 2015 City Council on 2015-12-08 2:00 PM

Have a quorum? Actually everyone's present. Fantastic. We 'll go to our first work session report, which is we only have one work session report and then we have including items in our open session. Receive a report, hold discussion, give staff direction regarding the status of dent municipal electric capital improvement program projects. Before we get started just to uh there wasn't any dinner orders so we do have the pressure to get out as expeditiously as we can. So I'm committed to that uh but we also want to make sure we have a thorough discussion of the the work session at hand. Yes. And I'd like to thank Councilwoman Briggs for our Christmas cheer that's around the table and just want to do a shout out and say thank you. It made me smile and warm my heart when I walked in so thanks. Thank you. You bet. Thank you very much. Yes I'm sorry. I would echo Ms. Wasney's comments today about the Christmas cheer and I'd like to go along with with the theme from yesterday of setting the bar higher than leaving by six for dinner. We could leave earlier than that Mayor. We can but I'll make sure that we won't. Just teasing. Okay Mr. City Manager without further ado. Thank you Mr. Mayor. I appreciate it. I'd like to call call on Mr. Brent Heath to open this discussion and I think we have visitors who will also participate in the presentation. Thank you Brent. Thank you George. Mayor, Council. We're here today to provide an update on DME's Capital Improvement Program. We have an executive summary that we would like to go over. The bottom line is that the city of Denton has a problem. We have a growth problem. That's a good problem but we have to have the infrastructure to serve it and we have an agent infrastructure problem. The chart at the bottom right hand corner of this map shows our megawatt demand. The August the 19th of this year we hit our second all-time peak electrical demand that we've ever had in the city of Denton and that was 347 megawatts. We have a responsibility to respond to the growth and agent infrastructure problem and to be able to supply electricity to the citizens of Denton both as the electric provider here at the city of Denton and also a regulatory responsibility. We have and we follow a sensible public involvement process to listen to and consider all practical suggestions that are made to us by the citizens and the presentation today is going to be mostly from Freese and Nichols. They're one of our engineering consultants that we've used to help manage this program and Kendall King is the vice president energy division manager for Freese and Nichols. I'll have him come up here in just a moment and he's going to highlight our project management processes and tools that we use and he will give an overview of the DME/CIP leadership team . Then Aaron Freke is the project manager with Freese and Nichols. He will then come up and show us some of the process swim lane and the diagrams that we use, the individual project schedules, the overall program schedule, a couple of the tools, web portal and e-builder, describe our weekly project meetings that we have, show a current executive dashboard and project accomplishments that we've done this year and that'll be a pretty amazing slide when you see that. They're going to do that before four o'clock. Well we definitely will try to do that. Kendall's then going to update us on the status of the Freese and Nichols contract for our CIP program and then I will conclude with some of the major accomplishments that we've done in our CIP program. So with that outline in mind I'd like to go ahead and invite Kendall King from Freese and Nichols to come up and go through his portion. Thank you Brent. I appreciate the opportunity to be here and especially because there's some new members on the council that weren't here when we started our project two years ago and so this is a chance for me to kind of give a little bit of a refresher on what Freese and Nichols role is on this project. Just kind of quickly, Freese and Nichols has got a lot of program management experience as a company. My group that I manage has a lot of experience helping energy clients implement really large programs of work to try to meet a peak workload that they have to without having to increase their staff significantly to make that happen and so we do that by plugging in a couple of a few key people into the program and really our goal is to take some of the day-to-day project workload off of the staff so that they can focus on the things that they really need to do. That key decision making type of involvement that only they can provide, the communications that is best carried out by staff, things like that, but to take some of the day-to-day project management workload off of those staff so that they can focus on the things that they need to do. We do that by putting some people in that have some experience that can do that. We also do that by deploying some technology and some tools that we've developed over a number of years to that we know works and can really help lighten the load of everybody. Well the first things we do when we come into a program like this is we help document the business processes and as you can see on the slide we documented 21 separate business processes that it takes to execute a either transmission line project or a substation project. It's everything from purchasing to how we engineer a project, how do we procure right away, all of those different processes get documented . We do that for a number of reasons. One is it really helps our folks come up to speed really quickly on how does DME do its business. The other thing it does is it gives us a road map for a very repeatable process. Essentially what we're doing here is building a machine to help churn out these projects at a much faster rate than what the DME staff was used to doing. We went from doing a project every you know maybe a project or two a year to where we've got eight or ten or twelve or more going all at the same time and what we've tried to do is help put the the machinery together to be able to churn out that work at a lot higher rate without DME having to add a bunch of staff. The other thing we did and continue to do is we've developed a bunch of very detailed project schedules. Aaron's going to show you that in a little while. It's really critical for being able to keep track of where we're at and manage our resources. We can start to see when we put all those project schedules together and you'll see this when Aaron shows it to you. We can see where the peak workload is going to happen, where our resources limitations are going to impact our schedules and then we can work around that. We've developed a web portal that Aaron's going to show you which really gives us the ability to let all the team members see the current maps and and locations and routings and things like that without worrying about people working off of outdated information. We deployed a software platform called eBuilder which has helped all of the team collaborate. It keeps all of our cost and financial information all in the same location. We share records and documents and manages many of our processes and then developing tracking tools and reporting tools so that everybody knows where we stand. The other thing we kind of helped with and this was a team effort with DME's lead team was we helped kind of devise what's the right project structure from a management standpoint and this is what it looks like currently. This evolved over the first several months of the program with key senior members of DME serving in lead roles in different areas. So Galen Gillum is over land acquisition and permitting, Brent's over the program management and also the site selection. Brian Dascombe and Chris Lutrick are really involved in site selection, public relations and purchasing and then Chuck Sears oversees all the engineering and construction. Then you can see these other folks around the outside. These are key people from either Freezing Nichols or some of the many design consulting engineering firms that are involved to support DME and so we've created these teams that focus on special areas, specific areas, and with that specialization and that focus, but everybody working together on a day-to-day basis, we've been able to really increase the amount of work that we've put through the program. So now I'm going to introduce Aaron Fricke who's going to show you some of the details of what we do on a weekly basis. Good afternoon council and mayor. Thank you all for having us here. I just scroll down is that what it is? Okay this is uh Kendall told you all about all the tools we use and everything we've done. I'm going to go in a little bit more depth not not bore you but not keep you here till six o'clock either. This is an example of a swim lane. This is the the product, the byproduct of sitting down with the DME staff and asking them what all happens in these 21 processes that we dug up as we talked to them and found out what is their day-to-day tasks that they do and this is a swim lane. What it is is each, I mean with the mouse I can, this says Tignall and Perkins. Each participant in a process has their own lane so Tignall and Perkins they have this top row then Power Engineers has this next one, DME the next one and you'll see down here City Council. So in this process specifically it's site and route selection. So when we go into a process of selecting a route for a route or a site for a substation or a transmission line we have to go through all these steps and navigate through it to get to our end product where we actually have a site we can move forward with or a transmission line alignment that we can move forward with. This helps us visually step back and see who who participates the most, when do they participate, who has who's carrying the ball before the next person is and who does it go to after that. So this this is what Kendall was talking about when we documented 21 different processes and the next slide zo oms in at the bottom so you can read it a little bit better but it just shows some of the tasks that bounce around. We go from one lane to the next lane it's there for two or three steps then it goes to this one splits and then comes back. So all these things happen in order to go from the beginning infancy stage to actually having a product we can work with. So after we did this we sat down and we put a duration to all these tasks. Does it take three weeks? How long does it take to get on city council's agenda, have the meeting with city council and then group back together and then go to our next step. So that's where we go from our process or our swim lane to our individual project schedules. So we also sat down with Chuck and said what all happens Chuck Sears what all happens to build this project in site selection, land acquisition, permitting, construction, all the stuff that has to happen design, what are all the tasks and these projects have somewhere between 8 and 1200 tasks to get to to the end of the project into from the beginning to the end if it's a full project with site selection and so you're not seeing all the tasks here some of them are rolled up into higher tasks higher echelons above that but you can see here the different tasks we have these are durations the longer it is the longer it takes to go through this one shows a land acquisition we've already finished the route and site selection on this one so this just shows the remaining tasks we did this for all the projects we have and there's about 40 something transmission line and substation projects and then there's another 30 something upgrades where Chuck has to plan out that usually those are just design and construction they don't take all the site selection and stuff so there's about 70 something projects 77 I think that have a detailed timeline all the way planned out this gave us an understanding of how long it's going to take to start this project and finish this project from that now we have 77 projects we need to figure out which ones do we do first so we asked Chuck we said in order for this in order for this entire program to go and to be built and be effective you don't want to build a substation over here and have a transmission line over here you want to build the transmission line that goes to that substation that connects to the next one to the next one so that as you upgrade your system it's upgrading in an efficient way that can be used at that time and not just sporadic so we went and prioritize all these projects and that's why you see them cascading down to when we expect to complete them and that gave us this is what we call a program schedule this is all 70 something projects rolled up in a program schedule so the little the processes led to a duration schedules individual project schedules which led to an overall program schedule and uh and so on that chart when you see a particularly long line that means that that particular thing takes a long time to accomplish yes sir okay it's usually the long ones you see here there 's a significant uh 12 18 months worth of route or site selection and then um of course design and land acquisition and all that stuff makes it a long project some of these short ones it's a the substation might already be there and we're just expanding it um so we don't have all the site selection going along with it so you see and just explain the the blue ones are the subst ations the orange ones are the transmission lines and you see these yellow ones those are uh tmpa upgrades some of our system requires tmpa to upgrade some of their parts to it in order for it to um help us out so we have those put in here as well this is a screenshot of our web portal freeston nickels has this uh tool that we've used on other projects it's um kind of similar to your your google earth if you're familiar with that you can zoom in zoom out pan around um we've got the we've got the system dme's infrastructure input in here with all the substation all the transmission lines the yellow is the 69 kv and the red is the um 138 kv and then you see some um there's some encore lines coming in and out just to show where everything connects we can um we can zoom into this into a particular project i've got them bookmarked over here you can click on not on this but on our program we can actually click on hickory it zooms straight into the hickory substation we can we have it loaded with the dcab data straight from um city of denton so we went or the county we bring that in you can look at the parcels how many properties are um how many properties will be affected on a certain a certain site and um we've also got the information of the the acreage the landowners um all that information from d cat imported into this program that helps us yes sir real quick question on the you said that the yellow or green or whatever that color is represents the would you say 68 kv what 69 69 yes sir but i know that on some of these we're we're redoing uh upgrading so that they can handle 130 138 138 so this is what's currently they're like i look at the bonnie bray substation uh and i know that they put in new poles along bonnie bray that are still 69 kv but it's so that they can handle a 138 kv so is that this is what's current this isn't what is projected to be right that's current what's on the ground upgraded currently it's 69 correct me if i'm wrong currently it's 69 but it's it's built to where it can the poles can handle 138 conductors is that correct i think what would be interesting and you could just do this an informal staff report on what do you see is your schedule for energizing those lines that we're upgrading to handle 138 actually being 138 what what's the time frame of needing that and so that's really not for you guys but i just was curious because i yeah um i wrote just a little list of some of the other things you can do on this we have a follow-up i'm sorry yes i think just add to that and then the ultimate kind of lifespan of that upgraded project in other words we're doing this assuming to avoid having to go back and upgrade in the near future how long does that take right yep i'm sorry go ahead okay on the right side i have just some of the highlights of our of our program you can you can search i can search for a landowner's name and type it into a search function and it'll let me know where all their properties are it works that that was helpful when dealing with the landowner that comes up several times like i believe waski was um we were dealing with him on two or three different projects rather than going to him different times and then finding out after we just closed with him we got another project we could do it all at once and say hey we got these projects on the on the table and it helps us uh be more efficient at our dealings with certain landowners who have a lot of property we have a print function which we can give we can make exhibits for landowners because they want to see when you say you're going to affect their property they want to know how are you going to affect my property cutting right through the middle of my house are you cutting on the neighbor on the side or or how and we can make exhibits showing the transmission lines and how they affect the properties and of course we got directions like google does and street view and we use being maps for our background we also have brought in recently um city of denton pays for uh net cog um imagery you all the council governments where y' all bring in the imagery for your gis data we're allowed to use that on this project as well so we have these maps updated with the latest uh the latest maps that you have that y'all have already paid for for through net cog we upload those straight into our system as well so it gives us real time i believe last one was flown over this year like april or something and we're and we're in the process of uploading that so this is a screenshot of our of e-builder which is our main program management platform um kindle discussed mentioned that it has the document storage um but what also has is all those all those um timelines all those schedules we built are imported into here and with every task is a um is a is a cost how much does it cost for construction how much does it cost for land acquisition how much it costs for permitting all that is loaded in in as resources into the um into e-builder from those costs we can if this project for some reason site selection is taking a long time and we're having to push this one to next year um we can slide that whole project to the next year and then we can run an analysis and say how does that affect our budget because we always we always have to put together a budget for the next fiscal year and find funding for it and make sure that um you know because the budget it changes as some projects progress fast other projects progress slowly and we have to keep that uh that budget number accurate so that we know how much to ask for so we don't over over uh under ask or over ask so um all those resource numbers are added to this um all the tasks are also broken down by transmission or um or substation cost that helps on the back end when we file for t-cost because uh when you get to a substation a certain percentage of it certain percentage of the equipment is transmission certain percentage of it is um substation side or distribution side so only the transmission part can be um sent up to t-cost for reimbursement so this is a this is a copy of our our status report that we use every thursday we have a team meeting um basically all the leaders all the players on our team sit again sit down and we we discuss all the projects that are currently going on um this this is just our statuses on a weekly basis we update what our latest actions are um when we go to council when we go to pub when we have approval from you guys all that information is dictated on these status reports on a weekly basis and this just gives us a visual as well as some of the some of the timelines some of the um dates we've hit on these uh on these projects we sit around and um we we do a lot of our strategizing and problem solving when we have problems on where um which side is better than others we we kick around ideas we have probably about 10 to 12 people in these meetings on average and we always have input coming from paul williamson freese nickles and several of the dme staff as well as uh city legal larry colister's there so we have a huge team there that everybody's looking at it from different angles to to make sure that we try to analyze all the different pros and cons of different sites and routes for the for the executive team for um what we call phil williams and um howard we put we put together what we call an executive dashboard phil and howard don't need to know all the details about all the all the landowners and all the um the little stuff we're working on they need to see big picture so we came up with this dashboard that in a in a one sheet main dashboard page they can get a lot of information just from this one sheet this top box over here it shows um all the different phases we got selection site selection or route selection acquisition land acquisition permitting and construction and then this last one is completed in a snapshot phil can say we have seven projects in site selection and as you can tell and the projects move from left to right so you can tell that bonnie bray north lakes is my time up bonnie bray north lakes is getting close to going in the way that it takes man here let me get to the fun slide so real quick phil can tell that we're about to have something going to the next phase and uh he knows when he's uh when he has something he needs to be involved in the this this one right here t cost is a big deal is getting that stuff filed getting projects completed getting the books squared away and then send them up for t cost this lets uh as well as our whole program um system this tells us when things are when we expect things to come online this is 2015 and then you got 2016 so we have two years projected out and come this next year we'll slide this over and show what we expect to have in 2016 and then 2017 this gives phil an idea of how many projects transmission lines substations and upgrades we should have online at different points of time throughout the year um also as you know we 're in this um in city council meetings uh closed and open sessions public hearings as well as pub all the time you see dme i think we're on the agenda every time for most of the items today this is uh this keeps phil aware of when we put things on the agenda of all the pub meetings we have coming up in the next uh two months and then all the city council meetings we have in the next two months whether they're open or closed or public hearings and then on the right here these two uh kind of the same thing this one has the contracts for the uh for the consultants and this bottom one has all the contracts for the materials it shows how much is left in all these contracts so phil can see when it's red we need to start thinking about are we done with that vendor or are we done with that consultant do we need to go back and get more money because it's a it's a decent process to go through and get a an rfp out for a new contract um but this this helps us understand where we are in all these contracts that we have going yes that's the uh yes the percentage that's the overall overall contract amount and then of course the percentage is how much is that that's how much is left yes anything else um this this is a this is another timeline per se um for the executive dashboard this this kind of breaks down our um projects by by color for the different phases in today's date you know that um anything that crosses the green it means those projects are in right and south right route and site selection anything that crosses the blue is in construction that uh that way we know that when when we're coming up to a project that might have a lot of blue projects at the same time are going to be in construction we need to start looking at our uh construction contractors and knowing can we handle five can our can our contractor handle being at five different um substations at one time or do we need to bring another contractor on board same with surveying and permitting we need to manage our resources using this um it just it's another way of breaking down our um current projects that we're working on to know what phase they're in and what resources will be used at them now last year we came in we um we we spent spent most of the year getting up to speed getting the processes in place making it more efficient and um revising any issues we see in those processes at as year went on this year we've got a lot of those systems in place and we've been very successful at pushing projects through the pro through the system to get um to get some uh progress and uh this is an animated slide i'm going to go click by click and you can just see that at the beginning of two at 2014 yes before you do that can you just go back one slide real quick is the ultimate goal to stay efficient to have a little bit of each color you know uh so you're not doing too much construction at one time too much land acquisition at one time or uh a land acquisition team we can ramp up and ramp down pretty easily but um construction we have contracts out for uh certain certain contractors and if we see that a lot of substations are going to hit at one time we need to be on board with that contractor and know can cam for uh or can chapman be out there doing six substations or do we need to go out there and have another one on standby right but yes and no okay some some resources we can we can explode and get a lot more going at one time and others we're gonna have to put a large contract out to get somebody else on board it's important to have a project completed on time but it's also important to have a project completed on budget is your organization responsible for bringing projects in on budget and it is this big project of the upgrade on budget or is it over budget is that is the overall cip the whole project of the transmission line upgrade and all the substations uh going in okay yeah that's excuse me that's absolutely a great question and yes we are on some of our projects were actually ahead of schedule we had anticipated to do some of the work this fall and we were able to complete it at the start of the summer so we were approximately three months early on some of the projects of the overall programs we feel very good about that now related to the financial portion as far as on budget we i saw a breakdown this last thursday to where we've capitalized or not capitalized we've uh listed every one of our projects since the cip program has began and we actually are under budget as far as what has been budgeted in the cip budget book versus what has been actually spent and what has been encumbered but has not yet been invoiced to be paid so we are under budget is there any chance i could see that spreadsheet i bet there is a chance okay thank you any other questions on this one before i move forward i don't see any thank you okay um again this is the animated slide at the beginning of this year this is where we stood the projects migrate from the left to the right these are our different phases we got site selection then it goes into land acquisition once we own the land we go into permitting and then design is kind of ongoing it can be going during this time and then construction so we put those in the same column and then once they're completed they're over here so last year we started the year off with these four projects in completion so here's some of the animation to show you so those projects are all now completed as of from the beginning of this year to the end of this year and or at least to november and then we have a lot of projects currently in construction or in design most of them are construction and then these went to permitting land acquisition and these are the current projects in site selection so this just shows that stuff is migrating but they're progressing from all of our phases to our completion phase which is what we want to get it's the ultimate goal and we just use this slide to animate and show you how things have progressed along the program and that's the last slide i have and kindles kindles on board next so two years ago when we started this project we came with a an estimated budget of in round numbers 12 million dollars i failed to mention in my first slide that the freezing nickels team is also providing the right-of-way acquisition we are partnered with the north fleet group nicky costanza who's here and i'm sure you've seen before is a subcontractor to freezing nickel so the contract was split roughly half and half six million for program management and engineering uh that also includes a construction inspection that our folks are doing and then roughly six million dollars for the land acquisition so you can see that through the end of october we had spent just a little over three million dollars i guess it was through september so we're two years through the contract and we're just a little over halfway through the engineering budget and the program management budget we spent about seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars on the land acquisition part of that there's a couple reasons for that a lot of the work that we've done up to this point has been focused on a few sites uh subst ation sites and so there's a number of projects yet to come where there's going to be lots of tracks to acquire for for transmission lines and so at that point the rate of spend on the uh on the right away will increase as nicky's group has to bring on some more folks to help get that done so uh the thing that um i'll call your attention to is that this was a three-year agreement it would uh it would expire at the end of uh october of uh this of the coming year 2016 uh we don't think that the work that we're engaged in will be finished by that time uh certainly the construction will not we would really like to think that we're going to be through all the site uh selection and and um and planning part of it but that's probably a little bit optimistic so we could be back here uh talking to you some point in the summer about a time extension yes because i wasn't on council when your contract was signed for those three years what was the total cost of the contract roughly 12 million dollars your two year company yeah well to manage the to yeah that's correct that was my question and and like i said six million for the program management and the engineering and construction management and about six million in round numbers for the right away acquisition so if we don't meet meet the deadline in october of 2016 how much additional time do you do you see this project taking you know i don't i'm not prepared to answer that here today uh we're trying to project and see how long some of these projects are going to go on and then what kind of assistance you're going to continue to need it could be that uh there may not be a lot of need for uh site selection type support uh and that kind of help for very long or maybe not at all but there could be construction going on which we might have some construction inspection services continuing so as we work through the summer and start approaching the time frame when this contract is going to expire we'll we'll try to we will have a better forecast of what tasks remain to be finished and what kind of effort that'll involve but the good news is that we're i think we're in very good shape on the budget it'd just be the time council member johnson so i think i know the answer based on what you just said but just for clarification so when you when you give us a a quote you're quoting based on the scope of work right assuming it's going to get done in a certain amount of time so if the work takes longer are you are you is my understanding that the the amount of money that you're charging in the contract is for the work or is it for the time it well it's really getting paid for our time it's really difficult to budget a project like this by task because when we started it we didn't know you really know what the exactly all that i mean not time in terms of man hours time in terms of the the contract is projected to be for three years or two years or whatever so i'm assuming your your your budget is based on man hours that's correct so and we just haven't expended the man hours at the rate that we thought we would when we put together the budget right so if so if there's more time required it doesn't mean that the amount of the contract increases that's correct thank you yeah and that's what i was trying to show is that we're half we're two thirds of the way through the time and just a little over halfway through the the budget so i think we're in good shape on the budget any questions yes councilmember it's kind of generally speaking and understanding that these are some pretty substantial development projects going on in the city of denton that have to go through a lot of the same processes that any other development project would have to go through you're going through engineering going through permitting you're working with different utilities and whatnot right away and there's been a lot of discussion of our own kind of development process and how that works and so you guys as consultants and and even our dme team has probably learned a lot along the way in terms of potential obstacles and things that work well things that don't and i hope that there's some interdisciplinary conversation going on with our planning department engineering department and all that sort of stuff but not for today's discussion but at some point it probably would be helpful for council to hear maybe even an informal staff report about some of the things that you've learned through that process any suggestions you have for other departments in terms of how to streamline things because you're trying to get some significant things through and then if any changes have been made in our own internal processes based on what you guys have done so to me that's just a whole separate area of interest that we're benefiting from probably just want to make sure we're learning from that when we when uh erin showed you the swim lane diagrams that we developed we spent a lot of time with with the other departments in helping to come up with those and and how the different departments interf aced with dme on executing these projects and there was a lot learned a lot of lessons learned and there already have been a bunch of improvements in everybody's processes to kind of help facilitate things so i think it's been a valuable experience thank you kendall thank you erin as you can tell we've been very busy this past year working on not only projects but also the entire program it's so much work and so many things that we've done it would have been well it would have been impossible for us have done it with the staff that we have and so it's great to have some experts that have done work for chesapeake energy they've done work for encore as well as other private entities bring their knowledge and their experience to be the subject matter experts to help us prepare some of these swim lane diagrams to bring efficiencies to the city of denton and to dme so with that i'd like to see if y'all have any questions we are working fast working furious towards solving the problem that denton has system growth and agent infrastructure and with your help and assistance we uh we aim to keep the lights on question yes and it's it's and this is i think this is within the posting whenever i say that her she always gets a very intent look on her face this is regarding a specific project within this cip project plan and that is the hickory bonnie bray substation we had seen a picture from uh that uh mr williams had presented i guess a couple weeks back about what would it look like if there were a gis at that location with the facade at least that was structured for so we didn't really talk much about that or give any direction and i would like to really put that forward to the council if not today in the near future to say hey i would like to see that be a gis just because it's a major thoroughfare not only for our city but for the university it's close to the historic uh district there on on west oak street and i think based upon our discussion last time with the with council members john son's observation that although there's a cost difference that seemed to be fairly major it was pointed out that part of that or some of that or most of it is is due to an increase in capacity with the gis so i just i mean if council is ready to give any kind of direction today that's fine if not i really want to before we get too far in that process on hickory and bonnie bray to where it's sort of a failsafe point of beyond able to make that that change i just wanted to put that forward because i think that's something especially at that location that would be appropriate given its its location and maybe the cost yes council member i appreciate you bringing that up mayor i think uh i think some of the direction that we gave last time was because the facade that we see now is really really high walls right because of trying to hide a lot of the equipment in there so i thought what we had asked for and correct me if i'm wrong brent was to go look at okay if we if we build a gis a gas insulated substation there let's see an updated budget because while there will it will cost more to put a gis versus ais the um as erin's later yes we should be able to save some money on the we need more acronyms around here we should be able to save some money on the facade because we wouldn't have to build it as tall and we might have other options on the facade so is that does everybody else remember that i think we asked okay okay i would like to see but i think to your point we need to do that sooner rather than later great to get an update on the what will the cost be sure um but i would also like to see that we did because i think that was kind of a an aha moment for me last time looking at it and i don't know if that information was in there before and i just didn't see it but when you see you know it's one and a half times the cost but it's one and a half times the capability well that changes all the thinking in my mind so to see a the cost difference but also to understand really understand the capacity difference between the two like expansion ability in there could we add more later because of the size of the parcel because we already own it now right we do so not just to look at you know apple to apple gis versus ais of the capacity we're planning to build but if there could be more capacity later and then how would you construct it and just a comprehensive either that hey guys here's the real deal if we go that route here's all the benefits and here's the costs and the facade benefits too and so we just make a decision yep okay and i my mind is slowly recollecting i was asking because that wasn't driving thank you thank you for remembering that um it's important and of all the locations i think that's the one so appreciate staff putting that together for us and again before we get too deep and down the road to really study it all before we actually say yes okay sounds great yeah all right the action items i'm taking from this briefing today is we'll look at the hickory substation the gis the direction to consider that shorter facade look at the cost revisit what the look would look like also to talk about the 69 to 138 kv conversion in a time frame and then look at how long the new infrastructure life cycle might be on that so those are the items i'm taking from today's meeting that sounds accurate yes any other questions any more presentation from staff on that is it we just appreciate y'all's help and input and we appreciate all the citizens suggestions recommendations and we definitely want to do what least impacts the citizens at the lowest cost possible any more questions for staff on this presentation okay seeing none thank you thank you all very much thank you very much for your presentation appreciate it we'll now go to our conclud ing items worksheet or work session which is item two any concluding items you know yes i would i would like to ask legal or staff to look at and update us on the update us on the process of citizen input at work sessions because i think that we looked at that before in our community in our engagement group but then it's really unclear about the exact process when to do it and what it can be done yeah just so because we've had citizens question that and come to speak and just kind of i'd like to see that okay anything else shout out to ryan raiders and gar wildc ats they got too deep into the playoffs and i'm really proud of those those those guys and gals and everybody that participated in on the field and either on the team or in the band and all the community that came out to support them i was at the game saturday at at&t stadium and boy it was you know the whole lower level was full you know almost wrapped around and then some in the upper level so it was a great environment and great to see the community come together and really support support the kids and their accomplishments so lots of fun look forward to next year any other concluding items seeing none okay that concludes our open portion of the city council meeting for tuesday december the eighth we will now proceed we'll now convene the closed session at 2 47 p.m. and we will consider the following items consultation with attorneys under text.