1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,379
All right, this is it's 1 0 5 on Tuesday, August the 4th.

2
00:00:05,379 --> 00:00:08,199
We're calling the work session for the Denton City Council

3
00:00:08,199 --> 00:00:11,000
to order a quorum is present.

4
00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:15,259
We're meeting today at the City Hall at the work session

5
00:00:15,259 --> 00:00:23,620
room. And I'm here because our esteemed mayor is in route

6
00:00:23,620 --> 00:00:27,000
back from a fishing trip to Alaska.

7
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:31,670
We understand that. I don't know if he caught any fish, but

8
00:00:31,670 --> 00:00:34,000
we know that the grizzly bears did not catch him.

9
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:41,000
So, so at least is that is concerned it's successful.

10
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:46,579
To talk a little bit about this evening, he will probably

11
00:00:46,579 --> 00:00:52,340
be back and has had asked that we consider rearranging our

12
00:00:52,340 --> 00:00:57,530
schedule for our regular open session and rearranging the

13
00:00:57,530 --> 00:01:01,000
order and moving the consideration of the gas well

14
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,000
ordinance to the last item, because he thinks he would be

15
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,359
back and able to participate in that discussion and a vote

16
00:01:08,359 --> 00:01:10,000
if we are able to get to that tonight.

17
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:14,000
So, with your indulgence is that all right.

18
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:19,730
And probably what we would do is, is when he arrives, we

19
00:01:19,730 --> 00:01:23,760
would call a recess, and I will go back to a more

20
00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:30,590
comfortable chair, and they will, they can reset the board

21
00:01:30,590 --> 00:01:34,040
in order to have us record votes and do that the way it

22
00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,459
needs to be done, I'd have to sit in this chair up there

23
00:01:37,459 --> 00:01:39,000
because I have to see who's queuing up.

24
00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:43,340
Who's queuing up to speak, because that's the only monitor

25
00:01:43,340 --> 00:01:45,000
where you see that.

26
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,000
Are we good with that.

27
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:55,000
The first item is citizen comments on the consent agenda.

28
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,000
Mr. Manager.

29
00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,799
The next item is request for clarifications on consent

30
00:02:01,799 --> 00:02:03,000
agenda items.

31
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,000
Yes sir Mr Johnson.

32
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,000
Thank you Mr Mayor pro temp.

33
00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:14,000
I have one item H.

34
00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,000
And my question is a simple one just.

35
00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,000
It's a.

36
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,000
You want to wait call somebody George.

37
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,199
So my question is just simply so this is an agreement

38
00:02:26,199 --> 00:02:29,840
between University of Texas at Arlington and the city didn

39
00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,099
't just want to throw out there to know if either of our

40
00:02:33,099 --> 00:02:36,819
local universities have the same capability of so give them

41
00:02:36,819 --> 00:02:39,000
the opportunity to look at it.

42
00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,969
If I could, Mr Johnson yes john fortune if he would address

43
00:02:41,969 --> 00:02:44,629
this I know that we've worked with you today for a long

44
00:02:44,629 --> 00:02:46,000
time on this project.

45
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,520
Yeah, I don't know if this particular project is a

46
00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,280
continuation of some work that you T has been worked and

47
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,099
started some time ago and so I don't know specifically if

48
00:02:54,099 --> 00:02:56,000
you and T or T.W. could have picked that up.

49
00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,139
But I know very specifically you T.A. has a program that's

50
00:02:59,139 --> 00:03:01,680
geared to do this and so we'll certainly be happy to look

51
00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,199
at that in the future but I don't believe that would work

52
00:03:04,199 --> 00:03:05,000
this time.

53
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,000
Okay, thank you.

54
00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:12,000
Other questions.

55
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:17,000
All right.

56
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,000
The next item.

57
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:23,189
There's a question we're going to have both as work session

58
00:03:23,189 --> 00:03:26,669
items and as closed session items discussions on

59
00:03:26,669 --> 00:03:30,750
nominations for city boards and commissions and at least

60
00:03:30,750 --> 00:03:32,000
some of them.

61
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:36,479
And then discussion on the gas well what's the pleasure of

62
00:03:36,479 --> 00:03:40,969
the council would you rather do the work session items and

63
00:03:40,969 --> 00:03:45,479
the open session first or do close session and then go into

64
00:03:45,479 --> 00:03:47,000
open session.

65
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:51,000
Well I see one of each.

66
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,000
Specifically on the gas well.

67
00:03:54,000 --> 00:04:02,300
It should be helpful to do the close first. Okay, both of

68
00:04:02,300 --> 00:04:03,000
our members in of that committee.

69
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,000
Still prefer open.

70
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:08,379
We're gonna do them both right. Yeah, it's just a question

71
00:04:08,379 --> 00:04:13,159
of order. Just a question of order. I think it might help

72
00:04:13,159 --> 00:04:15,000
the open session.

73
00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:20,000
To have the briefing and possession first. Okay.

74
00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:24,000
Okay.

75
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,000
What about the nominating on boards and commissions.

76
00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:35,000
We have an updated sheet.

77
00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,300
What are we discussing during the work session with the

78
00:04:37,300 --> 00:04:40,449
nomination. I don't know it's, it's there just so if we

79
00:04:40,449 --> 00:04:43,000
need to discuss we can. Okay.

80
00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,000
Really I'm indifferent to that one too.

81
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,310
I just thought where we left the last time talking about

82
00:04:48,310 --> 00:04:50,610
boards and commissions given some of the specific role

83
00:04:50,610 --> 00:04:53,000
requirements and stuff we're trying to get back to.

84
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,379
I thought we're left last time was that we would have a

85
00:04:56,379 --> 00:04:59,540
closed session to discuss some of those specific

86
00:04:59,540 --> 00:05:03,000
requirements and whether or not we wanted to vary from

87
00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,000
those at all replacement capabilities.

88
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,720
So to me, I think the benefits to do the closed first. Okay

89
00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:15,079
, to get clarification on those some of those specific

90
00:05:15,079 --> 00:05:20,300
requirements as far as industry capability in that and then

91
00:05:20,300 --> 00:05:23,000
have the open after verification.

92
00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:30,810
Miss Briggs. I wasn't sure that that we could discuss those

93
00:05:30,810 --> 00:05:33,000
in closed session.

94
00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:38,379
Legal, we certainly cannot discuss advisory boards in close

95
00:05:38,379 --> 00:05:41,199
session. That's absolutely right, but we can discuss

96
00:05:41,199 --> 00:05:42,000
government.

97
00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,879
Okay. So there's a limit to what we can discuss in closed

98
00:05:45,879 --> 00:05:47,000
session.

99
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:53,629
All right, seeing that there's no enormous objection, then

100
00:05:53,629 --> 00:05:59,480
we will hold on work session reports, a and b, and go at

101
00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:04,870
this time in the closed session will convene in closed

102
00:06:04,870 --> 00:06:07,000
session at 110.

103
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:13,310
And we will consider the following deliberations of real

104
00:06:13,310 --> 00:06:18,000
property under gov Texas government code.

105
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:22,490
Back in open session, we have a couple of workshop shop

106
00:06:22,490 --> 00:06:26,790
items left to do work session reports and item three a

107
00:06:26,790 --> 00:06:31,899
receiver report, hold a discussion and give staff direction

108
00:06:31,899 --> 00:06:37,000
regarding nominations to the city boards and commissions

109
00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,000
and we have our nomination sheet

110
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,480
and we might want to work through that and if any members

111
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:48,160
want to have need to make any changes and anything make any

112
00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:49,000
changes.

113
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:54,180
If you don't mind, I'll just go down to the list. Airport.

114
00:06:54,180 --> 00:06:56,000
Oh, I'm sorry.

115
00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,000
Go ahead.

116
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,000
I was trying to let you sit down.

117
00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:05,000
Oh, I need to stand a little bit. All right.

118
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:12,600
Secretary Airport Advisory Board. Mr. Rodin. I'm going to

119
00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,000
re nominate Stu Morehead.

120
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,000
Thank you.

121
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,000
Community Development Advisory Committee.

122
00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,000
Councilmember Rodin.

123
00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:31,000
I'll be nominating Adam Haseley H a S L E Y.

124
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:36,000
Okay.

125
00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,529
Mayor pro tem. Oh, you're you don't have that one yet. Hist

126
00:07:39,529 --> 00:07:41,000
oric one mark.

127
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,000
Human Services Advisory Councilmember Rodin.

128
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:50,000
Renominating Yesenia Centilla.

129
00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,350
She's currently serving current I'll just put current

130
00:07:53,350 --> 00:07:55,000
general fix it for me.

131
00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,449
Councilor Mayor pro tem Gregory. Do you have someone for

132
00:07:59,449 --> 00:08:02,000
human services? No. Okay.

133
00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,000
Councilmember Rodin Library Board.

134
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,000
Renominating Patrick McLeod.

135
00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,000
He's currently serving.

136
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,000
Okay.

137
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,000
Parks and Recreation Councilmember Rodin.

138
00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,000
This is the punishment for not turning this in earlier.

139
00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:29,000
Renominating Vicki Bird. Currently serving.

140
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,000
Public Art Committee Councilmember Rodin.

141
00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:45,000
Renominating Glenn Ferris Squibbs. Currently serving.

142
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:49,789
P.U.B. Councilmember Rodin. Renominating Lillia Chavez Byn

143
00:08:49,789 --> 00:08:56,000
um. Currently serving.

144
00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,000
And Mayor pro tem Gregory.

145
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:03,000
I'm not ready with that one. I actually do have a name for

146
00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:05,000
the Human Services Advisory Committee.

147
00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,000
Okay. All right.

148
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:14,000
Meredith Bui B U I E.

149
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:22,000
Oh, okay.

150
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:29,000
I believe that's all the vacancies at the moment.

151
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:35,330
I did want to mention that we will have this updated and

152
00:09:35,330 --> 00:09:39,799
Jane will bring me some clean sheets that have all these

153
00:09:39,799 --> 00:09:41,000
new nominations on them.

154
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:48,070
And should the nominations go through as is on this sheet,

155
00:09:48,070 --> 00:09:55,000
if you nominated Kent Key, Lisa, is it Piper?

156
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,000
Peeper.

157
00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,000
Peeper? What'd you say?

158
00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,000
Peeper.

159
00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:00,000
Peeper.

160
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,000
Andrew Rosell or Greg Sockle.

161
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,190
I don't have applications for them, and so I have no way of

162
00:10:08,190 --> 00:10:12,000
getting a hold of them or confirming their status.

163
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,340
So if you could get a hold of them and ask them to complete

164
00:10:16,340 --> 00:10:19,000
an application and send it in.

165
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,389
And then also I wanted to mention that as you consider

166
00:10:22,389 --> 00:10:25,000
these, we can do them by board.

167
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:29,600
Do say, for example, Airport Advisory Board, but should you

168
00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:34,000
decide you maybe want to vote on some of those separately,

169
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,100
just as an example, say you wanted to vote on Stu Moorhead

170
00:10:37,100 --> 00:10:40,990
separately, you could say, well, I'd make a motion to vote

171
00:10:40,990 --> 00:10:45,690
for so and so, but I'd like to vote separately on so and so

172
00:10:45,690 --> 00:10:48,000
, if that makes sense.

173
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,419
So you have the ability to pull one or a number out from

174
00:10:52,419 --> 00:10:57,000
the board and vote on that nomination separately.

175
00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:58,000
Yes.

176
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,000
Can an application be filled out online?

177
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,000
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's online.

178
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:03,000
Okay.

179
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,000
Andrew Rosell, fill out your application online.

180
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,000
I'm texting you.

181
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,000
Because I bet that Andrew's watching right now.

182
00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,000
Yes, I'm sure he is.

183
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:20,580
Is there any other questions or nominations that I can help

184
00:11:20,580 --> 00:11:22,000
you with?

185
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:28,019
In more discussion on this, in the past, we've generally

186
00:11:28,019 --> 00:11:31,820
just taken the entire sheet and said move approval of all

187
00:11:31,820 --> 00:11:33,000
of the names.

188
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,190
I do have a concern regarding the Animal Shelter Advisory

189
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:41,299
Committee, and so I'll be asking for us to vote on that one

190
00:11:41,299 --> 00:11:45,190
as a separate from the rest, and if there are any of you

191
00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:48,730
that want to vote on any of the others separately from the

192
00:11:48,730 --> 00:11:52,200
rest, just make mention of that when it comes to this point

193
00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:53,000
in the agenda.

194
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,000
Or you could tell me now and we'll have that ready.

195
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,840
I did have one further question too about the Zoning Board

196
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,870
of Adjustment with the alternate position. If that had been

197
00:12:03,870 --> 00:12:07,000
resolved or if we're going to vote on that separately.

198
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,029
Apparently what we're going to do, my understanding is we

199
00:12:09,029 --> 00:12:10,000
're just going to vote.

200
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:11,000
Okay.

201
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,000
We'll, so we'll have to take that out.

202
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,000
Okay.

203
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:16,000
Pull that for a separate vote.

204
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,000
Okay.

205
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:24,000
So we'll pull at least two of them that I know of.

206
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,000
Okay.

207
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,000
Anything else on boards and commission nominations.

208
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:36,740
Do we okay so we have another item, which is hold a

209
00:12:36,740 --> 00:12:41,350
discussion on complementary amendments to the develop

210
00:12:41,350 --> 00:12:46,000
development code regarding gas well drilling ordinance.

211
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,250
So we're going to have some complex. Is this where we

212
00:12:49,250 --> 00:12:53,000
complement certain parts of the ordinance or.

213
00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,000
Okay.

214
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,000
Yeah, certain staff.

215
00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:01,000
So, we'll, we'll open that item three B.

216
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,019
Are there any things that that the council wants to talk

217
00:13:04,019 --> 00:13:05,000
about in here.

218
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,850
Any other recommended changes or additions to what we did

219
00:13:09,850 --> 00:13:14,590
and closed session, or you can wait and talk about those

220
00:13:14,590 --> 00:13:18,000
and the regular session.

221
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:19,000
Yes sir.

222
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,509
Mayor pro tem, should we announce possibly how we're going

223
00:13:22,509 --> 00:13:24,000
to do the order of events.

224
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,460
Yeah, when as soon as we get in after we've done, done the

225
00:13:27,460 --> 00:13:31,000
call to order and the pledges I'll explain the order.

226
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:32,000
Thank you.

227
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,000
Yeah.

228
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,000
Anything else to discuss here.

229
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,940
Yes, is this where we can pull out something on the agenda

230
00:13:39,940 --> 00:13:42,000
or should we have already.

231
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:48,000
If you want to pull out well at this particular point, will

232
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:48,000
.

233
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,350
If you're going to do that and help to know that we've got

234
00:13:50,350 --> 00:13:52,600
the right staff here if you're going to pull it out and

235
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,000
need staff response to it.

236
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,980
I talked to Brian earlier and he said that he was willing

237
00:13:57,980 --> 00:13:59,000
to do that.

238
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:08,000
So which item on consent.

239
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,000
Yeah, yes, he and D and E.

240
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:15,000
Just so we can explain the process.

241
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,230
So consent agenda, you're going to ask for items D and E

242
00:14:19,230 --> 00:14:22,000
for individual consideration.

243
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,000
Okay.

244
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:25,000
All right.

245
00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,000
Are we all good then?

246
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,639
Then we will adjourn the work session and we will reconvene

247
00:14:31,639 --> 00:14:32,000
.

248
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,000
I'm sorry to interrupt.

249
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,779
Would it be beneficial if we heard that now since we have a

250
00:14:36,779 --> 00:14:39,320
little bit of time just since we're expecting a long

251
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:40,000
meeting.

252
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,000
I'm just as long as it's heard.

253
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,000
As long as it's just.

254
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:47,000
We're not posted for that.

255
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,000
Okay.

256
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,000
We need to wait till open session.

257
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,500
So we'll do that in open session and we'll convene back in

258
00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:54,000
open session at six.

259
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:17,000
Good evening.

260
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,899
We're going to call the regular meeting of the Denton City

261
00:15:19,899 --> 00:15:21,000
Council to order.

262
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,000
We have a quorum present.

263
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,000
Mayor Watts may arrive later.

264
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,000
I'm hoping that he does.

265
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:32,450
In which case we will call a very short recess so that we

266
00:15:32,450 --> 00:15:34,000
can reconfigure the boards.

267
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:41,000
I can move to my seat and he can resume his seat here.

268
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:49,000
At this time we will stand for the pledge to the flags.

269
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,419
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of

270
00:15:52,419 --> 00:15:57,039
America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation

271
00:15:57,039 --> 00:16:03,000
under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

272
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:10,669
I honor the Texas flag and pledge allegiance to thee, Texas

273
00:16:10,669 --> 00:16:16,000
, one state under God, one indivisible.

274
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,230
We don't have any proclamations or presentations this

275
00:16:19,230 --> 00:16:20,000
evening.

276
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:25,539
We will reorder the agenda just a little bit and hold the

277
00:16:25,539 --> 00:16:31,450
discussion for the gas well ordinance to the end and insert

278
00:16:31,450 --> 00:16:34,000
the public hearings.

279
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,000
There are several people here for public hearings.

280
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,000
It appears that those will go rather quickly.

281
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,539
So we will do those public hearings and then we will go to

282
00:16:43,539 --> 00:16:47,000
the gas well drilling ordinance consideration.

283
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,250
Also, remember on the gas well ordinance consideration, the

284
00:16:51,250 --> 00:16:53,000
public hearing is closed.

285
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,659
And so if you would like to comment on the gas well

286
00:16:55,659 --> 00:16:59,000
drilling ordinance, we will take public comments.

287
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,000
But you do need to fill out a blue card.

288
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,950
You can get those here and hand them to one of the staff

289
00:17:03,950 --> 00:17:06,000
people and they will get them up.

290
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,900
You can fill out a blue card if you want to speak or you

291
00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:12,000
can fill out a blue card even if you don't want to speak.

292
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:17,000
Just make a clear statement as to what your position is.

293
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,000
[ Inaudible ]

294
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:25,000
And we need those blue cards in before the item is called.

295
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,000
I'm getting coaching.

296
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,000
I need a lot of coaching.

297
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,000
We have a citizen's report on our agenda now.

298
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,549
And it is receive a citizen's report from Monica Jones

299
00:17:35,549 --> 00:17:38,799
regarding a complaint on animal control and code

300
00:17:38,799 --> 00:17:40,000
enforcement.

301
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,000
Is Ms. Jones here?

302
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,000
She is not.

303
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:51,000
So we will go to item four, consent agenda items.

304
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,000
There's a motion from Mr. Hawkins.

305
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,000
>> Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem.

306
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:59,309
I move approval of consent agenda items A through P, but we

307
00:17:59,309 --> 00:18:01,000
are pulling D and E.

308
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,000
>> Okay.

309
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,000
Mr. Broden.

310
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:04,000
>> I second that.

311
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:05,000
>> All right.

312
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,240
There's a motion and a second to approve the consent agenda

313
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,000
, but pulling items D and E.

314
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:19,000
Please vote on the board.

315
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,000
The item passes 6-0.

316
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,000
Then we will go to consent agenda item D.

317
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,000
Mr. Manager.

318
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,000
>> Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

319
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,759
I would like to call on Chuck Springer, our director of

320
00:18:31,759 --> 00:18:34,640
finance, if he would address in fact both of these items D

321
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,000
and E and he can take those one at a time.

322
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,000
Thank you, Chuck.

323
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,000
>> Thank you.

324
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:52,000
Mayor and members of council.

325
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,000
Make sure I have the items correct in the order.

326
00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:00,299
Item D is a budget amendment for two departments within the

327
00:19:00,299 --> 00:19:01,000
city.

328
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,000
One of them is materials management.

329
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,369
We run a warehouse operation in the city and we've seen

330
00:19:06,369 --> 00:19:11,000
mainly because of the increased capital program, just a

331
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,000
large dollar increase in purchases through the warehouse.

332
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,119
The warehouse actually buys the goods and keeps them in

333
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:19,000
inventory.

334
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,470
And then when they're used by the departments, the

335
00:19:21,470 --> 00:19:23,000
departments are charged.

336
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,019
So there's kind of a pass through of the funds are

337
00:19:26,019 --> 00:19:29,740
increased so far this year and warehouse purchases is up by

338
00:19:29,740 --> 00:19:31,000
about 34%.

339
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,420
So we're really just amending that budget to cover the

340
00:19:34,420 --> 00:19:38,230
warehouse expenses for the purchase and sale of those items

341
00:19:38,230 --> 00:19:40,000
in the capital program.

342
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:45,819
The second item is amending D and E's operating budget for

343
00:19:45,819 --> 00:19:48,000
$10 million.

344
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:53,390
This is really for the use of these funds to pay down some

345
00:19:53,390 --> 00:19:57,839
of the TMPA debt with a cash payment versus refinancing

346
00:19:57,839 --> 00:20:03,000
that debt through 2024, a portion of it.

347
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,000
So it relates to item E.

348
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,000
But that's really what the expenditure is for.

349
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,019
Conservatively, because of savings in the energy management

350
00:20:14,019 --> 00:20:17,660
group, we probably won't need nearly all of this $10

351
00:20:17,660 --> 00:20:21,000
million in terms of total budgetary authority.

352
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,869
But we wanted to be conservative to make sure we let the

353
00:20:24,869 --> 00:20:29,000
council know what we were doing with the refinancing.

354
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,000
I don't see any request for discussion.

355
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,000
Is there a motion for item D?

356
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:37,000
Mr. Johnson.

357
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,000
Move approval of item D.

358
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:40,000
Mr. Hawkins.

359
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:41,000
I second.

360
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,000
All right.

361
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:50,000
Let's vote on the board on item D.

362
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,000
It passes 6-0.

363
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,000
Is there a motion for item E?

364
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,000
Mr. Roden.

365
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:59,000
I move approval of item E.

366
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:00,000
Oh, did you do?

367
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,000
I thought you did both.

368
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,000
Pardon me.

369
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,000
Well, let's go ahead and do your presentation.

370
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,000
I'll make it very brief.

371
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:16,089
Item E is authorization to issue some refunding bonds for

372
00:21:16,089 --> 00:21:19,000
the utility system.

373
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,000
There's really two items here.

374
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,549
One is refinancing some of the TMPA debt that comes due in

375
00:21:25,549 --> 00:21:28,000
the upcoming fiscal year.

376
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,000
There's about $25 million in debt payments.

377
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,000
A portion of that can be refinanced or extended out.

378
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,000
What we plan to do here is take that $10 million in cash

379
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,829
plus about $3 million in bonds to refinance that through

380
00:21:43,829 --> 00:21:45,000
2024.

381
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,700
The purpose of that is just to try to level out the impact

382
00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:52,660
on our ratepayers from this debt that's coming due from TMP

383
00:21:52,660 --> 00:21:53,000
A.

384
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,450
The rest of it, the majority of the refunding, is some

385
00:21:56,450 --> 00:22:03,000
utility bonds issued in 2005, 2006 that can be refinanced.

386
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,650
The debt schedule will remain the same in terms of the

387
00:22:06,650 --> 00:22:09,000
years that we're refinancing,

388
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,730
but it's really taking debt that I think averages about 4.8

389
00:22:13,730 --> 00:22:17,000
% and refinancing it at about 2.2%.

390
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:22,400
The total savings from the refinancing is over $3 million

391
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,000
because of the lower interest rate.

392
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,769
This parameters ordinance just gives us the ability to have

393
00:22:29,769 --> 00:22:33,289
a competitive sale over the next couple weeks to sell the

394
00:22:33,289 --> 00:22:34,000
bonds.

395
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:39,670
In the past, we've had some concern expressed by citizens

396
00:22:39,670 --> 00:22:44,000
because of issues of refinancing.

397
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:48,859
Some folks would describe that as simply delaying payment

398
00:22:48,859 --> 00:22:53,000
or extending it or not paying on the principal.

399
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,420
But this is not an attempt to avoid paying it. It's an

400
00:22:56,420 --> 00:22:58,000
attempt to pay it early.

401
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,559
Well, it's really paying it over the same term. We're just

402
00:23:01,559 --> 00:23:03,000
saving interest costs.

403
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,490
So what we call this is kind of a level savings. In other

404
00:23:06,490 --> 00:23:10,160
words, we try to level out the savings in each year across

405
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:11,000
the term.

406
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,259
So we're still paying off the debt in the same length of

407
00:23:15,259 --> 00:23:17,740
time. We just have a lower interest rate, so our total

408
00:23:17,740 --> 00:23:19,000
payment is lower.

409
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,859
It would be the same as taking a 15-year home mortgage and

410
00:23:22,859 --> 00:23:26,470
refinancing it for 15 years the same term, but a lower

411
00:23:26,470 --> 00:23:28,000
interest rate so you have lower costs.

412
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,000
So dropping it from 1% to what percent?

413
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:36,579
I think it's average about 4.84% to an estimated about 2.2

414
00:23:36,579 --> 00:23:37,000
%.

415
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,000
For a savings of?

416
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,000
Okay.

417
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,000
You said it before.

418
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,000
About 2 million?

419
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,049
Yeah, there's, let me give you two numbers in terms of the

420
00:23:48,049 --> 00:23:49,000
savings.

421
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:57,000
One is the net present value savings of about 2.79 million

422
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,000
over the term of it.

423
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:07,549
But in terms of the actual savings when we apply the,

424
00:24:07,549 --> 00:24:17,000
excuse me, when we apply funds we have on reserve utility

425
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,000
bonds require a reserve fund.

426
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,559
And when we apply those reserve funds, the total savings

427
00:24:22,559 --> 00:24:26,000
with the application of that is about $7 million.

428
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,000
Ms. Briggs.

429
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,000
And this is to keep our rates from increasing?

430
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,160
Yeah, I mean really the purpose of it is to keep our costs

431
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,000
down as much as possible for the rate payers.

432
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,000
Okay, thank you.

433
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,410
Well, I want to say thank you to staff for recognizing a

434
00:24:43,410 --> 00:24:47,400
way of saving money and taking the initiative to bring it

435
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:48,000
to us.

436
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,000
We have a motion. Mr. Roden.

437
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:55,000
Thank you, Mayor. I now move approval of agenda item eight.

438
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,000
Thank you, Mr. Roden. Mr. Johnson.

439
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,000
Second that.

440
00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,000
Thanks.

441
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,000
Vote on the board then for item D.

442
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:13,000
Excuse me, item E.

443
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,000
Passes six zero.

444
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,000
We are done with consent agenda.

445
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:27,200
Go to items for individual consideration. This is consider

446
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:27,759
nominations appointments to the city's boards and

447
00:25:27,759 --> 00:25:28,000
commissions.

448
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,000
City secretary.

449
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:34,180
That's fine. I like the city secretary, Jennifer Walters to

450
00:25:34,180 --> 00:25:36,000
please address this.

451
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:41,000
Thank you, Mayor.

452
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,000
You have in front of you.

453
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,000
Can you hear me.

454
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,000
Barely.

455
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,000
Well, I can speak louder than that.

456
00:25:50,000 --> 00:26:17,000
I have in front of you a revised list of recessions.

457
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:17,000
However, the number of revisions to the list is noted that

458
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:17,000
the nomination from compliment or wrong was not eligible to

459
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:17,000
be reappointed as considered in the term.

460
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:35,000
I understand.

461
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,650
So we're we're going to be pulling the nominations for the

462
00:26:39,650 --> 00:26:44,559
animal shelter advisory committee and the nominations for

463
00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:48,000
the zoning board of adjustment and Mr.

464
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,900
So I move approval of everything except for those just

465
00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:53,490
noted by the mayor pro tem animal shelter advisory

466
00:26:53,490 --> 00:26:56,000
committee and zoning board of adjustment.

467
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,000
Thank you.

468
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,000
Mr. Johnson.

469
00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,000
Second.

470
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:13,000
Thank you. Then please vote on the board for our boards and

471
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:13,000
commission nominations.

472
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:18,279
Now, city secretary, I'm not sure if we can do this on the

473
00:27:18,279 --> 00:27:21,000
board or if we need to do it by hand. Can you give us

474
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:22,000
direction.

475
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,940
I think for animal shelter will just take each one of the

476
00:27:25,940 --> 00:27:28,000
nominees individually.

477
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,569
How do you want to do that? We can take the animal shelter

478
00:27:31,569 --> 00:27:36,420
advisory committee and take the first name and y'all can

479
00:27:36,420 --> 00:27:39,000
vote and vote on the board.

480
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,279
We can do that. All right. So then for the animal shelter

481
00:27:42,279 --> 00:27:45,450
advisory committee, the nomination is already there for

482
00:27:45,450 --> 00:27:48,000
David Zeltner and we have a request to speak.

483
00:27:48,000 --> 00:28:00,380
Ms. Wasney. David Zellner is my nomination for the animal

484
00:28:00,380 --> 00:28:01,000
advisory board.

485
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,000
I stand behind my nomination.

486
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:09,460
He is a licensed practicing veterinarian in the city of

487
00:28:09,460 --> 00:28:15,710
Denton, longtime resident of Denton, and he has volunteered

488
00:28:15,710 --> 00:28:18,000
for this position.

489
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,000
Thank you.

490
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,000
Any more discussion.

491
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:28,000
Then all those in favor of Mr. Zeltner would.

492
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:29,000
We're voting.

493
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:34,000
Okay.

494
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:39,450
Ms. Wasney has moved to nominate Mr. Zeltner. Is there a

495
00:28:39,450 --> 00:28:40,000
second?

496
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,000
Ms. Briggs.

497
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:54,000
All right. Then let's vote on the board for Dr. Zeltner.

498
00:28:54,000 --> 00:29:00,460
That fails four to two for Kathleen Duffy. Is there a

499
00:29:00,460 --> 00:29:02,000
motion? Mr. Roden.

500
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,730
Mayor, I move approval of nominating, appointing Kathleen D

501
00:29:04,730 --> 00:29:07,000
uffy to the animal shelter advisory committee.

502
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,000
All right, Mr. Hawkins. I second.

503
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:22,000
All right. Please vote on the board. Kathleen Duffy.

504
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,000
Thank you. Now we'll go to the zoning board of adjustment.

505
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:32,000
There are nominations.

506
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,190
Would it be acceptable for the count? Okay, Mr. Roden, you

507
00:29:36,190 --> 00:29:37,000
've got a motion.

508
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,900
Mayor, I would move approval for, I'm going to separate

509
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:42,000
this out a bit to get to the relevant one.

510
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,380
So I'll move approval of the nominees, John Morris, Sarah

511
00:29:45,380 --> 00:29:50,000
Bagheri, John Paradise, Greg Sacco, and Connie Baker.

512
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,450
There's a motion for those names as listed. Is there a

513
00:29:53,450 --> 00:29:55,000
second? Mr. Johnson.

514
00:29:55,000 --> 00:30:02,250
Second that. Thank you. All those in favor of the list as

515
00:30:02,250 --> 00:30:09,000
presented by Mr. Roden, please vote.

516
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,000
And now we have the alternate. Mr. Roden.

517
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,470
Mayor, I move approval of appointing Marshall Surrett to

518
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:16,000
the zoning board of adjustment.

519
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,000
Is there a second? Mr. Johnson.

520
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,250
Second that. All right. There's a motion and a second. Is

521
00:30:21,250 --> 00:30:24,000
there any discussion?

522
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,190
Then let's vote on the board. Oh, excuse me. Excuse me. We

523
00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:29,000
do have discussion.

524
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,390
Can we hold off on the vote? Did you want to discuss? Yes.

525
00:30:32,390 --> 00:30:34,000
Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem.

526
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,769
I did want to just note that this is a reappointment, right

527
00:30:36,769 --> 00:30:38,000
? Yes.

528
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:43,000
And just his attendance was good and that sort of thing.

529
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,000
Just putting those things into record.

530
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,380
Okay. Thank you. Is there any other discussion? I can't see

531
00:30:48,380 --> 00:30:51,000
it on my board. So you're going to have to raise your hand.

532
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:57,089
Ms. Wasney. Just to clarify, because we have two names in

533
00:30:57,089 --> 00:30:59,000
front of us.

534
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:03,059
So we're voting for one first and then the second one

535
00:31:03,059 --> 00:31:06,000
second. How does that?

536
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:15,769
Because of the way the motion was made, if Mr. Surrett gets

537
00:31:15,769 --> 00:31:18,000
a majority vote, then we're done.

538
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:23,440
Is that your understanding? Good. I'm Mayor Pro Tem. Good

539
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,000
job there with the gavel.

540
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,480
There were two ways to approach this. It could have been a

541
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,000
nomination process or it could be a motion to make the

542
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,000
appointment.

543
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,940
The motion came into a point. So that's the motion on the

544
00:31:34,940 --> 00:31:38,000
table right now. It does have a second.

545
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,000
So do you have more discussion, Ms. Wasney?

546
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:47,700
So the only way to look at candidate number two would be if

547
00:31:47,700 --> 00:31:54,000
this doesn't pass. That's correct.

548
00:31:54,000 --> 00:32:02,220
Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. I guess what I would

549
00:32:02,220 --> 00:32:02,990
just say to clarify is that what we're really talking about

550
00:32:02,990 --> 00:32:07,740
here is not necessarily that one of these particular people

551
00:32:07,740 --> 00:32:09,869
is better or more qualified or anything else than the other

552
00:32:09,869 --> 00:32:10,000
.

553
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,809
It's simply Mr. Surrett is a reappointment. He has never

554
00:32:14,809 --> 00:32:19,259
missed a meeting and is willing to continue to serve and I

555
00:32:19,259 --> 00:32:24,109
think has been a pretty productive member of the board. So

556
00:32:24,109 --> 00:32:26,000
that's why I'll be supporting it.

557
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,000
Okay. Ms. Briggs.

558
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,769
My nomination was for Kathy McMullen. The spot was empty

559
00:32:34,769 --> 00:32:39,170
and so I made a nomination as her for the alternate and so

560
00:32:39,170 --> 00:32:44,000
that is the other person in question here for the vote.

561
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,490
Okay. And you guys are going to have to raise your hands

562
00:32:46,490 --> 00:32:48,210
because I'm not seeing anything on my board about who's

563
00:32:48,210 --> 00:32:49,000
wanting to speak.

564
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,000
We haven't seen.

565
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:58,799
Anybody else want to speak. Okay, then, if there's no more

566
00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:07,819
discussion, then the motion is to approve Marshall sort for

567
00:33:07,819 --> 00:33:16,069
the alternate position on zoning Board of Adjustment,

568
00:33:16,069 --> 00:33:18,000
please vote.

569
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:23,000
It carries six to two, four, four, excuse me, four to two.

570
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:31,000
It went by way too fast.

571
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:39,829
We will, as we said earlier delay item five be on the gas

572
00:33:39,829 --> 00:33:49,019
well drilling ordinance and move to public hearings. The

573
00:33:49,019 --> 00:33:49,319
first public hearing is six a hold a public hearing and

574
00:33:49,319 --> 00:33:49,660
consider a rezoning for from a neighborhood residential for

575
00:33:49,660 --> 00:33:50,000
in our four district to a community

576
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,920
based use general district on approximately 8.4 acres of

577
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,470
land generally located on the west side of easily lane.

578
00:33:57,470 --> 00:34:01,779
That's farm to market road 2181 approximately 600 feet

579
00:34:01,779 --> 00:34:05,039
north of Hickory Creek Road, the planning and zoning

580
00:34:05,039 --> 00:34:09,000
commission recommends approval, five to zero.

581
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,400
Thank you, I'm gonna ask me visit or director of planning

582
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,000
and development if she would present this public hearing.

583
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,000
Thank you, Miss visit.

584
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:20,000
Thank you Mayor pro temp and city council members.

585
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:40,739
Good evening, everyone, good evening, everyone. Thank you

586
00:34:40,739 --> 00:34:48,150
for your attention. The first case you'll be considering

587
00:34:48,150 --> 00:34:48,389
tonight is a rezoning for sprouts shopping center. It's

588
00:34:48,389 --> 00:34:48,659
generally located at the west side of Teasley and 600 feet

589
00:34:48,659 --> 00:34:49,000
north of Hickory Creek Road.

590
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,000
It's a community mixed use general.

591
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,989
The future land use map is also designated as community

592
00:34:56,989 --> 00:34:58,000
mixed use.

593
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,420
To give you a little bit of background on this site in 1999

594
00:35:02,420 --> 00:35:06,679
, this property was residential zoning and everything around

595
00:35:06,679 --> 00:35:11,429
it was residential zoning in 2005, the southeast corner of

596
00:35:11,429 --> 00:35:14,880
Hickory Creek and Teasley was rezoned to facilitate

597
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,000
commercial development.

598
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:21,769
Again in 2009, the southwest corner was zoned to facilitate

599
00:35:21,769 --> 00:35:26,309
commercial development and then in 2014, the northwest

600
00:35:26,309 --> 00:35:29,780
corner was zoned to facilitate further commercial

601
00:35:29,780 --> 00:35:33,769
development, specifically to accommodate sprouts in that

602
00:35:33,769 --> 00:35:36,809
shopping center at that time, which may be why you feel

603
00:35:36,809 --> 00:35:41,000
like you're hearing this twice now, but I'll get to that in

604
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:42,000
a moment.

605
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,320
The things that we have considered going into this zoning

606
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:51,559
request is residential growth. When this when this property

607
00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:56,230
was zoned for residential originally, it was a very rural

608
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:57,000
area.

609
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,289
And over the last 10 to 15 years, we have really seen a

610
00:36:01,289 --> 00:36:05,250
huge growth in residential development out there and as a

611
00:36:05,250 --> 00:36:09,309
result that has spurred a need for commercial development

612
00:36:09,309 --> 00:36:13,420
in order to support the residential use, which is why we've

613
00:36:13,420 --> 00:36:18,050
seen these corners be rezoned over the last several years

614
00:36:18,050 --> 00:36:23,000
in order to support commercial uses.

615
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:27,679
We also took into consideration the mobility plan. Hickory

616
00:36:27,679 --> 00:36:32,559
Creek Road and Teasley Lane are both primary arterials and

617
00:36:32,559 --> 00:36:37,590
therefore support a denser community mixed use development

618
00:36:37,590 --> 00:36:39,000
in that area.

619
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,960
We also looked at the floodplain as we did our staff

620
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:47,500
analysis to determine whether this existing tract would

621
00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:51,929
support the existing zoning of NR4 and if you'll take a

622
00:36:51,929 --> 00:36:56,449
look on the top left of the screen, you'll notice that the

623
00:36:56,449 --> 00:37:01,000
floodplain clips the top corner of the lot.

624
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,639
And as a result, in order to develop this as a residential

625
00:37:04,639 --> 00:37:08,599
development, we would require a secondary access point into

626
00:37:08,599 --> 00:37:12,349
that property for the safety of the residents and the flood

627
00:37:12,349 --> 00:37:16,000
plain would prevent that from being able to happen.

628
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,980
As such, their only entrance and exit into a residential

629
00:37:19,980 --> 00:37:24,099
neighborhood would be onto Teasley and as a result of that,

630
00:37:24,099 --> 00:37:27,980
we don't feel like that's an appropriate zoning for that

631
00:37:27,980 --> 00:37:31,550
area any longer and so it certainly supports a more

632
00:37:31,550 --> 00:37:37,000
commercial mixed use zoning.

633
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,869
We also took into consideration the impending widening of

634
00:37:41,869 --> 00:37:43,000
Teasley Lane.

635
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,889
We have been able to identify a median opening and an

636
00:37:46,889 --> 00:37:51,409
access point from Teasley Lane onto this specific property

637
00:37:51,409 --> 00:37:56,000
that provides connectivity to the property to the south,

638
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,000
which would be the future Sprouts location and the property

639
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:06,000
to the north, which is a pharmacy and a medical development

640
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:06,000
.

641
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,130
And so this does provide further connectivity through the

642
00:38:09,130 --> 00:38:11,000
commercial development area.

643
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,780
The intent really, when Sprouts came in and rezoned the

644
00:38:14,780 --> 00:38:18,829
initial property, there was a request that the property to

645
00:38:18,829 --> 00:38:22,539
the north be rezoned as well for compatibility with the

646
00:38:22,539 --> 00:38:25,940
whole neighborhood and so they've been willing to

647
00:38:25,940 --> 00:38:29,639
accommodate that request and work with the adjacent

648
00:38:29,639 --> 00:38:33,000
property owners.

649
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,900
Criteria for approving a rezoning is that it must conform

650
00:38:35,900 --> 00:38:39,000
to the land use element of the Denton Plan 2030.

651
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,320
It does that the future land use plan calls for commercial

652
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,869
mixed use in this area and that it should facilitate the

653
00:38:46,869 --> 00:38:50,199
adequate provision of utilities and infrastructure in the

654
00:38:50,199 --> 00:38:53,409
area, which we have analyzed and looked at the widening of

655
00:38:53,409 --> 00:38:57,500
Teasley and looked at the mobility in the area and

656
00:38:57,500 --> 00:39:03,000
determined that it is facilitating adequate provision.

657
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:09,460
We mailed 13 required certified notices on June 21st and 42

658
00:39:09,460 --> 00:39:15,150
courtesy notices to property owners within 500 feet and we

659
00:39:15,150 --> 00:39:20,059
received one response to the legal notice in favor of the

660
00:39:20,059 --> 00:39:21,000
rezoning.

661
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,579
The Planning and Zoning Commission recommends approval 50

662
00:39:24,579 --> 00:39:27,000
and staff recommends approval as well.

663
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,159
And we do have the applicant here if you have any specific

664
00:39:30,159 --> 00:39:33,460
questions for them and they may wish to speak. Actually, I

665
00:39:33,460 --> 00:39:35,000
think they may be here. They might not be. I don't want to

666
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:35,000
lie to you.

667
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:36,000
They're here.

668
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,000
All right.

669
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,769
You're done with the presentation. We have a couple of

670
00:39:42,769 --> 00:39:45,000
questions from Council. Mr. Hawkins.

671
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,940
Thank you Mayor Pro Tem. Tonight we're just deciding on the

672
00:39:47,940 --> 00:39:51,280
zoning change. There's a site plan has not been submitted

673
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,000
or that is still being decided.

674
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,000
That's correct.

675
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:59,099
Yes. But it will the site plan and the design will have to

676
00:39:59,099 --> 00:40:01,000
meet all criteria for a large. Specific to the trees.

677
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,000
Development like this. Yes, that's correct.

678
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:04,000
Thank you Amy.

679
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:05,000
Ms. Briggs.

680
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,079
Well, that that answers my question. I was I was concerned

681
00:40:08,079 --> 00:40:11,159
I was looking at the the overall site location and it looks

682
00:40:11,159 --> 00:40:14,000
like the forest is getting smaller and smaller.

683
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:18,000
And so I was curious about the the tree plan.

684
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,010
That is upland habitat area. However, it's a commercial

685
00:40:21,010 --> 00:40:24,210
development. So they're not required to preserve it, but

686
00:40:24,210 --> 00:40:27,510
they would be required to mitigate it and then to replant

687
00:40:27,510 --> 00:40:30,989
per archery ordinance to provide the canopy coverage

688
00:40:30,989 --> 00:40:32,000
necessary.

689
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:37,000
That's our current code.

690
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,000
Mr. Roden.

691
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:44,860
I have a quick question for the applicant if if they're

692
00:40:44,860 --> 00:40:51,000
available to answer. And it is quick, I think.

693
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,639
I'm William Winkleman Winkleman associates a civil engineer

694
00:40:54,639 --> 00:40:59,000
at 6750 Hillcrest Plaza Drive Dallas, Texas 75230.

695
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,150
Thanks for coming here today. And it's not often that as a

696
00:41:02,150 --> 00:41:05,170
council member you get asked a question over the weekend

697
00:41:05,170 --> 00:41:08,159
that you get an answer for within a couple days. And the

698
00:41:08,159 --> 00:41:10,340
question I was asked while I was at the community market is

699
00:41:10,340 --> 00:41:13,000
when is didn't going to get a sprouts.

700
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,090
I said, well, as soon as we get everything approved. So

701
00:41:16,090 --> 00:41:17,000
that's the question.

702
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,900
How any ETA should this be approved tonight and move

703
00:41:20,900 --> 00:41:24,070
forward in the process? Is there an ETA and a lot of folks

704
00:41:24,070 --> 00:41:26,000
are really interested in this sort of grocery store.

705
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,000
Well, I don't want to speak out of turn. First of all, let

706
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,000
me tell you that the staff here has been very good to us.

707
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:36,059
I mean, I think the ETA would have been on regular schedule

708
00:41:36,059 --> 00:41:38,000
November or something.

709
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,230
We've had some meetings as well yesterday, actually, and

710
00:41:41,230 --> 00:41:44,320
they're helping us with text out with the driveway and the

711
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,000
preliminary plots actually tomorrow at PNC.

712
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:51,570
So they have helped in my opinion, moving us up a meeting

713
00:41:51,570 --> 00:41:56,340
at least. So I think our developer would really like to be

714
00:41:56,340 --> 00:41:59,000
moving along in September.

715
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,389
But again, I don't want to speak. You never know. But I

716
00:42:02,389 --> 00:42:06,550
mean, at this point, we are on track for getting approvals

717
00:42:06,550 --> 00:42:09,000
in September, if I'm correct.

718
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:14,170
Mr. Winkleman, I'm new at this. So would you state your

719
00:42:14,170 --> 00:42:16,000
name and your address, please?

720
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,750
I did do that. Oh, you did? Oh, that's how new I am. I didn

721
00:42:19,750 --> 00:42:22,000
't even listen.

722
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,619
I'm not the one that's usually here. My son does this, but

723
00:42:24,619 --> 00:42:28,480
he had a child yesterday. So I'm a grandpa. So I had to

724
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,000
come on second teams here.

725
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,000
All right. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you.

726
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:38,840
I've been asked to when is sprouts coming? So thank you

727
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:43,000
from the residents of Denton. We're excited.

728
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,570
So thank you all. I know from our client and I've heard

729
00:42:45,570 --> 00:42:49,000
that from several people. And again, thanks to the staff.

730
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,380
And I mean, it's all of them. I mean, Tracy, the whole

731
00:42:52,380 --> 00:42:55,469
crowd has really been a pleasure working with them and they

732
00:42:55,469 --> 00:42:57,000
've helped out a great deal.

733
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,150
And I think it's going well, but we're not there yet,

734
00:43:00,150 --> 00:43:04,000
obviously. But we're working at it. But thank you all. And

735
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:04,000
thank you, Council.

736
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:11,000
Ms. Briggs. I'm just curious, how did you choose this site?

737
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,429
Well, number one, I didn't, but I'm sure the client picked

738
00:43:15,429 --> 00:43:16,000
it.

739
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:21,260
It's at a major thoroughfare intersection and they can get

740
00:43:21,260 --> 00:43:23,000
access because of the two tracks.

741
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,389
The one we're zoning out, they getting access, the median

742
00:43:26,389 --> 00:43:28,630
opening coming through the other track is very important to

743
00:43:28,630 --> 00:43:29,000
them.

744
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,380
And, you know, if you look around, there's a lot of housing

745
00:43:32,380 --> 00:43:33,000
there.

746
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,219
The grocery stores, they have to have a certain number of

747
00:43:36,219 --> 00:43:39,800
rooftops before they even consider a site. So again, that's

748
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,000
their decision.

749
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,230
I just do the grading, drainage and paving and low life

750
00:43:44,230 --> 00:43:46,000
civil engineering stuff.

751
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,210
I only ask because I live on the other side of town. So I

752
00:43:48,210 --> 00:43:50,000
was just, I was just curious.

753
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,320
Well, if you find a site, I'm sure I'll give it to them

754
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,000
because it means more work for me. That'd be great.

755
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:56,000
Thank you.

756
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:01,619
This is a public hearing and we only had the one blue card

757
00:44:01,619 --> 00:44:04,000
from the applicant. Did you have anything else that you

758
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:04,000
wanted to share?

759
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,000
Again, thanks to the staff. I really wanted to say that.

760
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,610
Do we have any other citizens that wish to speak on this

761
00:44:10,610 --> 00:44:12,000
public hearing?

762
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,000
Anyone else wishing to speak?

763
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,000
Anyone else?

764
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,000
Then we will close the public hearing. Mr. Hawkins.

765
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,000
Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. I move approval of item 6A.

766
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,000
All right. Is there a second? Mr. Rogan.

767
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,610
Before I second, I just want to say to Mr. City Manager and

768
00:44:30,610 --> 00:44:33,239
the staff, I love hearing compliments like that for the

769
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,000
staff working through difficult issues.

770
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,639
So thank you. Thanks for everyone involved working with

771
00:44:37,639 --> 00:44:40,000
them. I second this.

772
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,000
I did walk down memory lane as I was looking at those maps.

773
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,119
I remember about 25 years ago when the Denton Independent

774
00:44:46,119 --> 00:44:50,989
School District cited McNair Elementary School out on Hick

775
00:44:50,989 --> 00:44:52,000
ory Creek Road.

776
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:57,090
There were only two students that lived within two miles of

777
00:44:57,090 --> 00:44:58,000
the school.

778
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:02,960
And people were thinking that the school district was crazy

779
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:08,000
to build. They referred to it as Corpus Christi Elementary.

780
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:20,000
Things have changed. All right. Let's vote on the board.

781
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,000
It passes unanimously.

782
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:28,460
Going to item B, hold a public hearing and consider rez

783
00:45:28,460 --> 00:45:33,000
oning from a neighborhood residential 2, NR2 district to a

784
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:37,429
community mixed use general district on approximately 1.7

785
00:45:37,429 --> 00:45:40,289
acres of land generally located on the east side of North

786
00:45:40,289 --> 00:45:44,480
Bonnie Bray Street, approximately 475 feet north of West

787
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,000
University Drive.

788
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,190
The Planning and Zoning Commission recommends approval of

789
00:45:50,190 --> 00:45:52,000
the request 5 to 0.

790
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,199
Thank you, Mayor. I'm going to ask Amy Bissett or Director

791
00:45:54,199 --> 00:45:56,000
of Planning and Development to also address this item.

792
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,710
And Amy, if you had another comment about the previous case

793
00:45:58,710 --> 00:46:01,000
that you will look like you were going to make.

794
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:05,050
I can clarify that their preliminary plat is scheduled to

795
00:46:05,050 --> 00:46:09,099
go tomorrow along with their ADP and that their final plat

796
00:46:09,099 --> 00:46:13,400
we're shooting for September 2nd and looking at running as

797
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:18,000
much of the building plan review concurrently as possible.

798
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:26,000
They hope to break ground in September.

799
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:30,190
All right. Our next request is also a rezoning from

800
00:46:30,190 --> 00:46:33,000
residential to a commercial zoning.

801
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,750
And because my other hat is the Economic Development

802
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:39,179
Director in the city, I can tell you that while I can't

803
00:46:39,179 --> 00:46:43,090
tell you who this is, I can tell you that you're going to

804
00:46:43,090 --> 00:46:46,000
love them just like you love sprouts.

805
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:51,579
This is a consideration of a rezoning from NR2 to Community

806
00:46:51,579 --> 00:46:57,340
Mixed Use General on 1.7 acres of land. This is on the

807
00:46:57,340 --> 00:47:02,000
northeast corner of Bonnie Bray and University essentially.

808
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,599
This is a little sliver of land that was formerly a part of

809
00:47:05,599 --> 00:47:07,000
North Lakes Park.

810
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:11,820
We have now sold that property to the developer and they

811
00:47:11,820 --> 00:47:17,090
are also acquiring the property to the south, which is the

812
00:47:17,090 --> 00:47:22,320
old Billetter Ford site, so that they can combine that acre

813
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,000
age for this development.

814
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,000
I already said all of that.

815
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:32,849
The existing zoning is NR2 and the proposed zoning is

816
00:47:32,849 --> 00:47:36,000
Community Mixed Use General.

817
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,960
The future land use map shows that this is right on the

818
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:44,000
line between commercial and parks and open space.

819
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:49,000
Staff and their analysis considered the following things.

820
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,000
This was originally zoned in 2002 as NR2.

821
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,000
It was zoned that way because it's a park.

822
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,000
Most parks are zoned NR.

823
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:02,000
NR2 is primarily intended for single family residential.

824
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:07,099
It's not an appropriate zoning now that it's in private

825
00:48:07,099 --> 00:48:13,000
ownership and immediately adjacent to commercial zoning.

826
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,000
We looked at the location, the criteria for approval.

827
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,239
We looked to see if the rezoning conforms to the land use

828
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,000
element of the Denton Plan 2030.

829
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:32,739
It does. That land use element is designated as commercial

830
00:48:32,739 --> 00:48:33,630
and that the rezoning facilitates the adequate provision of

831
00:48:33,630 --> 00:48:36,000
infrastructure and utilities.

832
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:41,000
That is also being contemplated with their plat.

833
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,340
Their conveyance plat goes to Planning and Zoning

834
00:48:43,340 --> 00:48:45,000
Commission tomorrow evening.

835
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,860
We've already got our engineering department and TechStat

836
00:48:48,860 --> 00:48:53,000
involved on this one as well since it is a neighboring 380

837
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,000
and it's right on the edge of the widening of Bonnie Bray.

838
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,909
So we've already started taking a look at integrating this

839
00:49:00,909 --> 00:49:06,000
development into those current construction projects.

840
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,000
Public notifications were mailed on June 21st.

841
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,739
One property owner was notified that is within 200 feet and

842
00:49:13,739 --> 00:49:18,000
five within 500 feet were notified by courtesy.

843
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,000
We received no responses.

844
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,579
The Planning and Zoning Commission recommends approval 50

845
00:49:24,579 --> 00:49:27,000
and staff recommends approval as well.

846
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:32,309
The applicant is here to answer any questions and they may

847
00:49:32,309 --> 00:49:38,000
wish to speak and I'm glad to answer any questions as well.

848
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:43,000
Questions?

849
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:48,000
So we're opening the public hearing.

850
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:53,000
I do have some cards. We had some confusion with the cards,

851
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:59,739
but I believe on this item, Mr. Beck, Larry Beck would like

852
00:49:59,739 --> 00:50:01,000
to speak on this item.

853
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:06,000
Were you intending to speak on this public hearing?

854
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,000
Just yes or no?

855
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,000
Okay, I think we got them confused.

856
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:16,000
Okay, forget the blue cards.

857
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:19,579
Okay, so is there anyone that wishes to speak on this

858
00:50:19,579 --> 00:50:21,000
public hearing?

859
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:25,000
Anyone wishing to speak?

860
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,000
Final call.

861
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,000
Then we'll close the public hearing. Mr. Hawkins.

862
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,000
Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. I move approval of item 6B.

863
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,000
Thank you. Ms. Wasney.

864
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,000
I second the motion.

865
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:38,000
Thank you.

866
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:55,000
Then no discussion. Please vote on the board.

867
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,000
Passes unanimously. Thank you.

868
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,659
The next item is item C, hold a public hearing and consider

869
00:51:01,659 --> 00:51:05,340
adoption of an ordinance of the City of Denton regarding an

870
00:51:05,340 --> 00:51:09,130
initial zoning district and use classification of

871
00:51:09,130 --> 00:51:13,260
neighborhood residential 1 and a specific use permit for a

872
00:51:13,260 --> 00:51:17,000
semi-public hall, club, or lodge.

873
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:21,570
The approximately 10.8 acre site is generally located on

874
00:51:21,570 --> 00:51:26,170
the east side of Barthold Road and approximately 2700 feet

875
00:51:26,170 --> 00:51:28,000
north of Ganser Road.

876
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,280
This would be adopting an amendment to the city's official

877
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,250
zoning map and providing for a penalty in the maximum

878
00:51:34,250 --> 00:51:37,000
amount of $2,000 for violation.

879
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:41,000
The Planning and Zoning Commission recommends approval 520.

880
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:47,619
Thank you, Mayor. This is a public hearing and Ms. Bissett

881
00:51:47,619 --> 00:51:51,000
will also present this case.

882
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,920
Thank you. This is a consideration of an initial zoning as

883
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,000
well as a specific use permit.

884
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,000
The applicant here is Denton Shop with a Cop.

885
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:03,019
What we're essentially looking at is the Denton Police

886
00:52:03,019 --> 00:52:07,599
Officers Association having a location where their officers

887
00:52:07,599 --> 00:52:11,610
can go while on duty during their meal breaks in order to

888
00:52:11,610 --> 00:52:16,000
be able to cook a meal and relax for a little bit of time.

889
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,380
But we'll start with just getting our bearings and what we

890
00:52:19,380 --> 00:52:22,000
're looking at from a zoning perspective.

891
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,639
This is a request for an initial zoning to NR1 and a

892
00:52:25,639 --> 00:52:29,519
specific use permit for what the DDC defines as a semi-p

893
00:52:29,519 --> 00:52:32,000
ublic hall, club, or lodge.

894
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:36,000
This is on approximately 10.8 acres.

895
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,000
This is the location here.

896
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:45,070
It is, it abuts Barthold Road and is a little bit south of

897
00:52:45,070 --> 00:52:47,000
Ganser Road.

898
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:53,000
This is what the property looks like.

899
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:57,820
It is currently zoned as Rural Residential RDX 5, which is

900
00:52:57,820 --> 00:53:02,469
the rural designation that is automatically zoned when we

901
00:53:02,469 --> 00:53:04,000
annex a property.

902
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,000
This was annexed in 2010.

903
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,000
We call this a placeholder zoning.

904
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:13,059
The RDX 5 as a zoning is intended to maintain rural

905
00:53:13,059 --> 00:53:18,010
residential uses to preserve and protect farming, forest,

906
00:53:18,010 --> 00:53:22,750
and environmental and scenic values that would be incompat

907
00:53:22,750 --> 00:53:25,000
ible with development.

908
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:32,000
The surrounding zoning is ETJ and RDX 5 today.

909
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:38,309
The surrounding land uses are residential Ganser Estates,

910
00:53:38,309 --> 00:53:44,409
which is a 65-home, single-family home development where

911
00:53:44,409 --> 00:53:49,000
the lots range in size from about 1 1/2 acres to 11 acres.

912
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,659
And the property we're contemplating today is a little over

913
00:53:51,659 --> 00:53:54,000
10 acres, so it's similar in size as those.

914
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:58,659
There's also an event center just southeast over here,

915
00:53:58,659 --> 00:54:04,000
which is the Merritt Event Center, or Buffalo Event Center.

916
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,000
It used to be called Merritt.

917
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:07,000
I'm not sure which one it is today.

918
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:10,000
And then there are agricultural uses as well.

919
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,699
The Future Land Use Plan calls for a rural designation, or

920
00:54:14,699 --> 00:54:17,000
I'm sorry, rural areas.

921
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:21,139
Their proposal is that they be allowed to use what is

922
00:54:21,139 --> 00:54:25,929
currently a single-family home, which is about 2,700 square

923
00:54:25,929 --> 00:54:28,000
feet that sits on about 10 acres.

924
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,000
They want to be able to use that as a semi-public hall,

925
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:35,000
which would provide daily meal breaks for their officers,

926
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:39,340
which would generally look like one to two officers being

927
00:54:39,340 --> 00:54:43,000
there at a time, about 10 officers over a 24-hour period,

928
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,659
and then about four times a year to be able to have general

929
00:54:45,659 --> 00:54:48,840
membership meetings there where they anticipate 10 to 12

930
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,000
officers attending those, or I'm sorry, 12 to 15.

931
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:56,000
This proposed use is not allowed in RD5X.

932
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,539
However, it is allowed in NR1, which is why you're

933
00:54:59,539 --> 00:55:03,099
considering both a rezoning and a specific use permit

934
00:55:03,099 --> 00:55:04,000
tonight.

935
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:14,190
The site itself, the structure would remain. They're

936
00:55:14,190 --> 00:55:15,619
proposing a future addition of 400 square feet for rest

937
00:55:15,619 --> 00:55:16,949
rooms in order to be able to accommodate those four general

938
00:55:16,949 --> 00:55:18,000
meetings a year that they would have.

939
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:25,690
And if approved, the site would have to comply with all DDC

940
00:55:25,690 --> 00:55:31,000
requirements for a building permit.

941
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:36,000
So they're requesting two things, an initial zoning of NR1,

942
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:41,000
which is our lowest density designation for residential,

943
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:46,000
and a specific use permit for their allowed use.

944
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:49,079
The criteria for approval is that it must conform to the

945
00:55:49,079 --> 00:55:51,000
future land use designation.

946
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:55,960
We looked at the zoning of NR1, which has a maximum density

947
00:55:55,960 --> 00:56:00,329
of one unit per acre that meets the low density goals of

948
00:56:00,329 --> 00:56:03,000
the Denton Plan 2030.

949
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:08,449
And the intent of NR1 is that it will also maintain rural

950
00:56:08,449 --> 00:56:13,760
character and allow supporting uses such as veterinary

951
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:19,820
clinics. It's a very similar description as the placeholder

952
00:56:19,820 --> 00:56:21,000
zoning.

953
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:27,130
As I mentioned previously, the surrounding areas are

954
00:56:27,130 --> 00:56:34,190
established single family, Ganser Estates, which is a small

955
00:56:34,190 --> 00:56:37,000
number of large lots.

956
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:41,190
The criteria for approval, the specific use permit, I'm

957
00:56:41,190 --> 00:56:44,000
sorry, the specific use must be compatible and not inj

958
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,000
urious to the use and enjoyment of other property owners.

959
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,940
The surrounding areas generally residential and

960
00:56:49,940 --> 00:56:54,829
agricultural. We expect very low or limited impact with

961
00:56:54,829 --> 00:56:56,000
this use.

962
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:59,980
It's a very similar use as if it were just to remain a

963
00:56:59,980 --> 00:57:04,719
residential use and to not impact or impair property values

964
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:09,000
or the enjoyment of the neighboring properties.

965
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:13,550
The specific use must not impede the normal and orderly

966
00:57:13,550 --> 00:57:17,000
development of the surrounding area.

967
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:20,670
The normal and orderly development would be to preserve its

968
00:57:20,670 --> 00:57:25,739
rural character. And so this would certainly be in keeping

969
00:57:25,739 --> 00:57:27,000
with that.

970
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:31,139
All driveways and parking spaces must provide for safe and

971
00:57:31,139 --> 00:57:33,000
convenient movement.

972
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,110
The current driveway and proposed parking area is

973
00:57:36,110 --> 00:57:39,559
consistent with surrounding properties. It is a gravel

974
00:57:39,559 --> 00:57:44,000
driveway which would be allowed to remain.

975
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:47,010
And they would need around six parking spaces by our

976
00:57:47,010 --> 00:57:52,360
estimation. And there's a very long driveway with plenty of

977
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:55,000
room to park there today.

978
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,940
Sufficient landscaping and screening to ensure harmony. We

979
00:57:58,940 --> 00:58:02,670
don't anticipate that this would generate a nuisance at all

980
00:58:02,670 --> 00:58:03,000
.

981
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:08,400
They're going to maintain the rest of the property as a

982
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,000
green space.

983
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,219
We had originally made a recommendation that they add some

984
00:58:13,219 --> 00:58:16,000
additional landscaping along the southern edge.

985
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,570
And the planning and zoning commission didn't feel that

986
00:58:19,570 --> 00:58:23,199
that was a necessary criteria, which I'll get to in just a

987
00:58:23,199 --> 00:58:24,000
moment.

988
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,500
It's got to be in similar scale, bulk and coverage, which

989
00:58:27,500 --> 00:58:32,000
this is maintaining the existing scale and not changing

990
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:38,000
with the exception of adding 400 square feet for restrooms.

991
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:41,710
We don't anticipate that the use of this property will

992
00:58:41,710 --> 00:58:45,000
significantly impact traffic whatsoever.

993
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:49,409
Architecturally compatible with the area. This is a, as you

994
00:58:49,409 --> 00:58:53,210
saw in the picture, this is a barn style, architecture

995
00:58:53,210 --> 00:58:58,190
style. And it's consistent with what's in that rural area

996
00:58:58,190 --> 00:58:59,000
today.

997
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:02,429
The proposed use must meet noise requirements. We had

998
00:59:02,429 --> 00:59:07,000
initially, as staff, recommended limiting the use of hours

999
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,000
to reduce any noise impacts.

1000
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,710
But the planning and zoning commission didn't feel that

1001
00:59:11,710 --> 00:59:14,510
that was a necessary limitation or condition to put on them

1002
00:59:14,510 --> 00:59:18,000
since it's going to be such a low amount of traffic.

1003
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:24,139
And the officers work 24 hour shifts, so they would want to

1004
00:59:24,139 --> 00:59:29,000
be able to have the use of that facility as well.

1005
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,280
The applicant proposes activities which are low intensity

1006
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,449
and the reuse of the existing single family dwelling will

1007
00:59:35,449 --> 00:59:38,159
have little to no impact on the surrounding built

1008
00:59:38,159 --> 00:59:39,000
environment.

1009
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,429
And will allow the adjacent properties to develop with the

1010
00:59:42,429 --> 00:59:45,000
rural character that they already have.

1011
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,960
We mailed out two notifications in 200 feet and six

1012
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:56,000
courtesy notifications. We received no responses.

1013
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:59,099
The staff recommend approval of this subject to a couple of

1014
00:59:59,099 --> 01:00:02,000
conditions, which I'll go through momentarily.

1015
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:05,239
And the planning and zoning commission recommends approval

1016
01:00:05,239 --> 01:00:08,000
of this request with the following conditions.

1017
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:11,570
That any additional improvements above and beyond the 400

1018
01:00:11,570 --> 01:00:15,070
square feet that they're planning already would require

1019
01:00:15,070 --> 01:00:18,090
them to come in and get approval of a new specific use

1020
01:00:18,090 --> 01:00:19,000
permit.

1021
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:22,420
And that the approval of the SUP is for the Denton Police

1022
01:00:22,420 --> 01:00:25,920
Officers Association only and cannot be transferred to

1023
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:30,130
another entity if they ever decided to sell or make other

1024
01:00:30,130 --> 01:00:32,000
use of that property.

1025
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:35,000
With that, I will answer any questions.

1026
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,000
Ms. Briggs.

1027
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:42,380
I have a question. If the neighbors have an issue with

1028
01:00:42,380 --> 01:00:45,000
noise, who do they call?

1029
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:50,099
They would call us. We would go out and test the noise

1030
01:00:50,099 --> 01:00:52,000
level and determine whether there was a violation.

1031
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,000
The police department does that.

1032
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:57,000
Thanks.

1033
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:01,000
The guy's on duty. Ms. Wasney.

1034
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,250
I'd like to point out that this facility sits on 10 acres,

1035
01:01:04,250 --> 01:01:05,000
correct?

1036
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,000
That is correct. 10.8.

1037
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:10,000
Thank you.

1038
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:13,000
Other questions for staff?

1039
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,929
Well, this is a public hearing and we have one card, but

1040
01:01:15,929 --> 01:01:18,000
remember that others can't speak.

1041
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,559
It appears that Virginia Nichols would like to speak on the

1042
01:01:20,559 --> 01:01:21,000
item.

1043
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:24,280
You may come forward and state your name and address,

1044
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:25,000
please.

1045
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:26,000
Your time may begin.

1046
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:30,010
Yes, sir. My name is Virginia Nichols and my address is 16

1047
01:01:30,010 --> 01:01:34,000
01 Oak Shores Court in Crossroads, Texas, 76227.

1048
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:38,190
I am president of the Denton Police Officers Association

1049
01:01:38,190 --> 01:01:42,199
and we're requesting a zoning change so we can occupy the

1050
01:01:42,199 --> 01:01:45,449
property out there and purchase it from the current land

1051
01:01:45,449 --> 01:01:46,000
owner.

1052
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,070
As the young lady stated, the only reason we're buying this

1053
01:01:49,070 --> 01:01:52,000
property is so we can have our officers a place to go.

1054
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:55,440
Do they do their breaks, their meal breaks and stuff like

1055
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:56,000
that?

1056
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:59,969
And we do have four meetings a year, our membership

1057
01:01:59,969 --> 01:02:05,000
meetings, and we would hold our membership meetings there.

1058
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,000
Record time. Are you done? Yes.

1059
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:11,000
We have a question. Ms. Wasney.

1060
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,469
I want to thank you for your service to the citizens of

1061
01:02:14,469 --> 01:02:19,000
Denton and to all of our uniformed police in the city.

1062
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:26,070
And I applaud this move to give them a much needed place.

1063
01:02:26,070 --> 01:02:27,000
And again, thank you.

1064
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,000
Thank you. Thank you very much.

1065
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,389
I would like to say also thank you to the staff at the

1066
01:02:32,389 --> 01:02:35,000
planning and zoning, especially Julie Wyatt.

1067
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,000
She's been superb. She has helped me through this.

1068
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,489
I'm not an engineer and I don't know a lot about the

1069
01:02:40,489 --> 01:02:43,579
process, but she's been just absolutely excellent help to

1070
01:02:43,579 --> 01:02:44,000
me.

1071
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:47,000
Don't leave yet. Mr. Hawkins.

1072
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:49,250
Well, just maybe while you're here, you can give the shop

1073
01:02:49,250 --> 01:02:52,300
with the cop a plug and tell everybody what it does and who

1074
01:02:52,300 --> 01:02:53,000
it helps out.

1075
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:55,000
Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

1076
01:02:55,000 --> 01:03:00,130
Denton shop with the cop is our program for at Christmas

1077
01:03:00,130 --> 01:03:01,000
time.

1078
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:05,409
We take needy children. We, the police officers association

1079
01:03:05,409 --> 01:03:07,000
members association.

1080
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,000
We take donations.

1081
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:12,429
And with those donations, in addition to the funds that we

1082
01:03:12,429 --> 01:03:15,860
have, we take usually around one hundred and forty five or

1083
01:03:15,860 --> 01:03:20,000
one hundred fifty children to Wal-Mart for a shopping spree

1084
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:20,000
.

1085
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,909
And each child gets to spend one hundred and twenty dollars

1086
01:03:23,909 --> 01:03:26,000
on toys and clothing items.

1087
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,000
Pretty amazing program, not to cut you off.

1088
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:31,750
Very good turnout for it. And we've been really fortunate

1089
01:03:31,750 --> 01:03:34,929
folks in Denton have been very generous with the donations

1090
01:03:34,929 --> 01:03:36,000
to our project.

1091
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,409
The Denton Police Department is just class act. Thank you

1092
01:03:39,409 --> 01:03:40,000
very much.

1093
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,000
Mr. Johnson.

1094
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:45,849
So in keeping with the plug opportunity, if a citizen was

1095
01:03:45,849 --> 01:03:49,360
so inclined to help the cause, is there a Denton shop with

1096
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:51,000
a cop website or something?

1097
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:55,409
Actually, there is. They can they can look online and it is

1098
01:03:55,409 --> 01:03:57,000
Denton shop with a cop.

1099
01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:00,909
And there is a place on their PayPal bill. If you'd like to

1100
01:04:00,909 --> 01:04:04,000
make a donation, it is our address on there.

1101
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:07,000
If you'd like to donate via the mail, that's fine.

1102
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:10,900
We have our mailing address on that website as well. Thank

1103
01:04:10,900 --> 01:04:12,000
you.

1104
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,920
And my question for you as the applicant, the planning and

1105
01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:19,000
zoning put a couple of special conditions.

1106
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:22,530
Are you all OK with those? Absolutely. Yes, we understand

1107
01:04:22,530 --> 01:04:23,000
what they are.

1108
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:25,000
Yes, sir. Thank you very much.

1109
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,750
This is public hearing. If there are others that did not

1110
01:04:27,750 --> 01:04:30,989
spell out a lot of blue card but wish to speak on the item,

1111
01:04:30,989 --> 01:04:33,000
you may come forward at this time.

1112
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:39,000
Anyone wish to speak? Last call.

1113
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:42,050
Then I'll close the public hearing. We have a motion from

1114
01:04:42,050 --> 01:04:43,000
Mr. Johnson.

1115
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,050
Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem. If I lived out in the country, I

1116
01:04:46,050 --> 01:04:48,679
would love to have police officers coming and going at the

1117
01:04:48,679 --> 01:04:50,000
house next door to me all day long.

1118
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:54,000
So I'm going to recommend approval of this item. Thank you.

1119
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:58,000
This was the second the motion. Thank you.

1120
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:11,000
Then let's vote on the board for item C.

1121
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:17,000
And it passes unanimously.

1122
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:24,070
I believe that concludes the public hearings. So we will

1123
01:05:24,070 --> 01:05:29,590
move back in our agenda to items for individual

1124
01:05:29,590 --> 01:05:32,000
consideration.

1125
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:50,260
We are on item five B, consider adoption of an ordinance am

1126
01:05:50,260 --> 01:05:50,659
ending sub chapters five, 16 and 22 of the development code

1127
01:05:50,659 --> 01:05:52,000
relating to the gas well drilling and production

1128
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:54,000
definitions and procedures.

1129
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:57,980
The planning and zoning commission recommends approval

1130
01:05:57,980 --> 01:06:01,000
seven zero. Mr. Manager, I believe we have a staff report.

1131
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:03,650
We do. Thank you. I'd like to call on Darren growth or gas

1132
01:06:03,650 --> 01:06:06,000
well administrator if he would make a presentation.

1133
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:09,369
And as he's getting ready, I want to remind folks this is

1134
01:06:09,369 --> 01:06:13,760
an item for individual consideration. Individuals may speak

1135
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:15,000
to this item.

1136
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:17,969
You need to fill out a blue card. You need to turn that

1137
01:06:17,969 --> 01:06:20,699
blue card in to one of the staff members. So if you're

1138
01:06:20,699 --> 01:06:23,409
holding a blue card, we're not going to know what to do

1139
01:06:23,409 --> 01:06:24,000
with you.

1140
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:28,440
So if you make sure that you get it to one of the staff

1141
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:30,000
members, Mr.

1142
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:33,380
Thank you, Mr. Mayor pro tem members of the council. This

1143
01:06:33,380 --> 01:06:37,329
item is back before you as we can delayed action from last

1144
01:06:37,329 --> 01:06:38,000
week.

1145
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:40,659
So as an item for individual consideration for development

1146
01:06:40,659 --> 01:06:43,579
code amendment 14 nine, this is regarding gas well drilling

1147
01:06:43,579 --> 01:06:45,000
and ordinance revisions.

1148
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:48,000
So I kind of have a condensed presentation from last week,

1149
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:51,869
but at least for those watching, give a summary of PNC and

1150
01:06:51,869 --> 01:06:55,460
city council's actions, identify how we posted the draft

1151
01:06:55,460 --> 01:06:57,000
ordinance for this evening,

1152
01:06:57,000 --> 01:07:00,019
highlight some of the changes from the current ordinance

1153
01:07:00,019 --> 01:07:03,000
that we have, and then I can stand for any questions.

1154
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,960
So this case was remanded from city council and brought to

1155
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:09,000
the planning and zoning commission on July 22nd.

1156
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:11,440
They recommended approval with some amendments. And then

1157
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:15,260
last week on July 28th, city council reopened their public

1158
01:07:15,260 --> 01:07:18,349
hearing on DCA 14 nine, closed the public hearing and

1159
01:07:18,349 --> 01:07:20,000
delayed action until this evening.

1160
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:23,530
There was significant discussion during both of those

1161
01:07:23,530 --> 01:07:27,590
hearings. What that resulted in is revisions resulting from

1162
01:07:27,590 --> 01:07:30,000
all those stakeholder comments.

1163
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,900
The public input that was received, both planning and

1164
01:07:32,900 --> 01:07:35,840
zoning commission and city council provided some deliber

1165
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:38,800
ations that resulted in a draft ordinance that was posted

1166
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:40,000
online on Friday.

1167
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:44,190
There's been some in this rapid schedule, there's been some

1168
01:07:44,190 --> 01:07:48,000
cleanups since Friday. You have gotten those at your place.

1169
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,940
We left some copies out in the hallway as well that will

1170
01:07:50,940 --> 01:07:53,000
identify what those changes are.

1171
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:56,059
So you'll see from what was posted on Friday, there's still

1172
01:07:56,059 --> 01:07:58,000
some wordsmithing that was done.

1173
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:01,739
So I just want to identify that that did occur. And so when

1174
01:08:01,739 --> 01:08:05,309
we talk about the posted draft, what you'll see is those

1175
01:08:05,309 --> 01:08:08,179
setbacks are based off of the discussions that we've had

1176
01:08:08,179 --> 01:08:10,000
during those public meetings.

1177
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:12,539
So there was a red line and clean draft published on the

1178
01:08:12,539 --> 01:08:15,090
city council's agenda and to the gas well inspections

1179
01:08:15,090 --> 01:08:18,000
division website, which was mentioned last weekend.

1180
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:21,220
The address is here in the middle of the screen. That

1181
01:08:21,220 --> 01:08:23,869
ordinance was drafted with an innovative delineation of

1182
01:08:23,869 --> 01:08:25,000
zoning categories.

1183
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:28,600
That pretty good summary of what this does because it

1184
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:33,000
actually incentivizes drilling in industrial zoned areas.

1185
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:36,210
So again, what was posted on Friday hopefully was available

1186
01:08:36,210 --> 01:08:39,220
for review. You can still see that on a tablet if you have

1187
01:08:39,220 --> 01:08:42,140
it or if you need the copies that are in the hallway with a

1188
01:08:42,140 --> 01:08:43,000
red line.

1189
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:45,779
So the next couple of slides I'll highlight some of the

1190
01:08:45,779 --> 01:08:48,680
prominent changes from what we see today under our

1191
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:53,329
ordinance that was adopted back in January of 2013 and what

1192
01:08:53,329 --> 01:08:55,000
's being proposed for you this evening.

1193
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:58,779
The first is that DDC section 35-5-10. That is a new

1194
01:08:58,779 --> 01:09:01,649
section added to the zoning chapter of the Denton

1195
01:09:01,649 --> 01:09:03,000
Development Code.

1196
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:06,659
And what that primarily does is simplify how the zoning set

1197
01:09:06,659 --> 01:09:10,000
backs are calculated, measured, and defined.

1198
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:13,510
They will be based on location of drilling production site

1199
01:09:13,510 --> 01:09:15,000
by zoning districts.

1200
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:18,229
So this proposal will have the new well setback remain at 1

1201
01:09:18,229 --> 01:09:22,000
,000 feet in residential and commercial zoning districts.

1202
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:25,659
And we also identified an opportunity to clearly define how

1203
01:09:25,659 --> 01:09:29,000
the measurement will be taken for existing sites.

1204
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:32,560
We have some older plats and some sites that have been in

1205
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:36,000
existence for 10, 12, 15 years.

1206
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:39,449
This ordinance will help us identify how to measure set

1207
01:09:39,449 --> 01:09:43,000
backs and reverse setbacks to those existing sites.

1208
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:45,130
And how those setbacks will be measured is shown on the

1209
01:09:45,130 --> 01:09:46,000
next two slides.

1210
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:49,109
From last week you'll see the discussion kind of condensed

1211
01:09:49,109 --> 01:09:52,479
residential, commercial, and industrial down from three to

1212
01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:53,000
two.

1213
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:55,000
Residential and commercial is combined.

1214
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:59,500
So the site setback in both of those categories will be 1,

1215
01:09:59,500 --> 01:10:01,000
000 feet.

1216
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:05,430
The minimum in those districts will be 500 and a reverse

1217
01:10:05,430 --> 01:10:08,000
setback will be 250 feet.

1218
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:11,619
And in industrial districts only then, the site minimum and

1219
01:10:11,619 --> 01:10:14,000
reverse will all be 250 feet.

1220
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:17,500
MPC and PD districts, the setbacks if identified in the

1221
01:10:17,500 --> 01:10:21,000
master plan community or plan development district,

1222
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:25,979
will defer for those requirements that were approved under

1223
01:10:25,979 --> 01:10:28,000
the MPC and PD ordinance.

1224
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:32,000
Unless there is a change to the activity for the MPC or PD,

1225
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:35,000
in which case we'd apply some new standards.

1226
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:38,310
So existing sites as we have in the current draft for

1227
01:10:38,310 --> 01:10:40,000
industrial districts,

1228
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:44,409
it's a site distance of 250 feet, minimum of 250, and the

1229
01:10:44,409 --> 01:10:46,000
reverse of 250.

1230
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:49,729
But for all other districts, the site requirement would be

1231
01:10:49,729 --> 01:10:53,319
500 feet for a setback, could be reduced to 250, and the

1232
01:10:53,319 --> 01:10:55,000
reverse would be 250 feet.

1233
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:57,770
And same thing for any existing site, the MPC and PD

1234
01:10:57,770 --> 01:11:02,359
districts would primarily prevail as far as setbacks unless

1235
01:11:02,359 --> 01:11:04,000
those ordinances are silent.

1236
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:08,689
Then we'll apply these standards in this proposed ordinance

1237
01:11:08,689 --> 01:11:09,000
.

1238
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:11,329
Some other changes you'll see, I walked through the

1239
01:11:11,329 --> 01:11:13,000
different section references here,

1240
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:16,449
but there was an authorization via gas well development

1241
01:11:16,449 --> 01:11:19,000
site plan for multiple wells per site.

1242
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:22,199
What that ties into is those site setback distances are

1243
01:11:22,199 --> 01:11:25,189
calculated with the gas well development site plan

1244
01:11:25,189 --> 01:11:26,000
application,

1245
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:29,010
and then you can pull an individual permit for each well on

1246
01:11:29,010 --> 01:11:30,000
that location.

1247
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:33,380
So a gas well development site plan will be required for

1248
01:11:33,380 --> 01:11:37,159
new wells, and that site has a presumptive size limit of

1249
01:11:37,159 --> 01:11:38,000
three acres,

1250
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:41,239
unless additional acreage is required as proved up by the

1251
01:11:41,239 --> 01:11:43,000
operator, there is a max size limit.

1252
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:46,000
I believe the proposal you have says seven acres.

1253
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:49,939
That can also be taken to the zoning board of adjustment if

1254
01:11:49,939 --> 01:11:53,869
additional size is needed, typically to restrict current

1255
01:11:53,869 --> 01:11:56,000
locations from future drilling.

1256
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:59,000
So the size is addressed.

1257
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:02,630
The constructed sites, unlike current, will be actually

1258
01:12:02,630 --> 01:12:05,260
verified in the proposal through an as-built gas well

1259
01:12:05,260 --> 01:12:06,000
development site plan

1260
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:09,380
that ensures the location of the site, and that's part of

1261
01:12:09,380 --> 01:12:11,000
the permitting process.

1262
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:13,760
So you can see that in order to get a permit, you have to

1263
01:12:13,760 --> 01:12:17,489
submit that as-built site plan that helps us verify where

1264
01:12:17,489 --> 01:12:19,000
the location of that site is,

1265
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:22,000
and it was actually located as approved.

1266
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:26,189
So per section 35.5.10.6, setback reductions will require

1267
01:12:26,189 --> 01:12:29,489
either waivers from 100% of the protected uses, approval

1268
01:12:29,489 --> 01:12:31,000
from the board of adjustment,

1269
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:34,670
or there is an opportunity for administrative relief if the

1270
01:12:34,670 --> 01:12:38,069
operator does agree to restrict the existing drilling

1271
01:12:38,069 --> 01:12:41,000
production sites by not adding any additional new wells.

1272
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:46,000
The next couple of changes here talk about definitions.

1273
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:49,229
What we tried to do is ensure clean, clear, and consistent

1274
01:12:49,229 --> 01:12:52,000
descriptions throughout all the definitions.

1275
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:55,000
You'll see a lot of language red lines through that.

1276
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:58,149
And then there's significantly more new, brand new

1277
01:12:58,149 --> 01:13:00,000
notification provisions.

1278
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:05,850
So 35.22.2, 35.22.7, and 35.16.7, 16.7 being brand new for

1279
01:13:05,850 --> 01:13:07,000
notifications.

1280
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,510
But some of the highlights are that new signage

1281
01:13:09,510 --> 01:13:13,000
requirements for each drilling production site are required

1282
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:16,140
, and it will clearly mark those sites for the benefit of

1283
01:13:16,140 --> 01:13:17,000
the public.

1284
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:20,590
In addition, city and property owner notices for different

1285
01:13:20,590 --> 01:13:24,550
various activities, and I said property owner, but it says

1286
01:13:24,550 --> 01:13:26,000
just property on the screen,

1287
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,439
and there's a difference between the notice that is sent

1288
01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:33,670
out with an application or a waiver process to a property

1289
01:13:33,670 --> 01:13:37,479
owner versus the activities are actually sent to the

1290
01:13:37,479 --> 01:13:39,000
property itself.

1291
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:42,000
But those will be required.

1292
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:46,550
In addition, any property purchase would be notified

1293
01:13:46,550 --> 01:13:53,000
through section 35.16.7 through various requirements.

1294
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:56,859
In addition, there's a redesigned sound mitigation

1295
01:13:56,859 --> 01:13:58,000
procedures.

1296
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:01,069
What we're going to require is that a professional

1297
01:14:01,069 --> 01:14:04,600
qualified in noise mitigation submit a noise management

1298
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:08,000
plan that will identify the conditions for each site,

1299
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:13,250
topography, sound direction, proximity to other uses, and

1300
01:14:13,250 --> 01:14:17,279
that plan will identify how to achieve the standards in the

1301
01:14:17,279 --> 01:14:19,000
proposed ordinance.

1302
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:22,109
So there will also be enhanced standard as setback distance

1303
01:14:22,109 --> 01:14:23,000
are reduced.

1304
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:27,189
There's one of those is again a new procedure that will add

1305
01:14:27,189 --> 01:14:29,000
production monitoring,

1306
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:32,869
and that stipulates periodic evaluations to determine if on

1307
01:14:32,869 --> 01:14:36,000
-site equipment is functioning as designed.

1308
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:39,000
So that's a lot of the changes from what we currently have.

1309
01:14:39,000 --> 01:14:41,390
Hopefully summarizes with last week's presentation where we

1310
01:14:41,390 --> 01:14:44,100
stand today, but if there are any additional questions, I

1311
01:14:44,100 --> 01:14:46,000
hope to answer those for you.

1312
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:47,000
>> Mr. Hawking.

1313
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:49,000
>> Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem.

1314
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:52,170
Darren, I had an interesting phone call with a resident

1315
01:14:52,170 --> 01:14:56,100
this morning, and can you just go into more detail why we

1316
01:14:56,100 --> 01:14:57,000
're taking the stance,

1317
01:14:57,000 --> 01:15:01,010
we think that it's better to measure from the edge of the

1318
01:15:01,010 --> 01:15:04,000
well site rather than the well head?

1319
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:08,189
>> Well, I think what my experience has shown from doing

1320
01:15:08,189 --> 01:15:12,359
this over the past decade is that a lot of municipalities

1321
01:15:12,359 --> 01:15:15,000
have tried taking measurements from a well head,

1322
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:18,470
and what you get is kind of a changing distance as

1323
01:15:18,470 --> 01:15:21,000
additional wells are drilled.

1324
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:25,000
If you have in this case a thousand foot setback distance,

1325
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:28,000
but you have 30 foot well head spacings,

1326
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:31,380
each time you measure that you're changing how that

1327
01:15:31,380 --> 01:15:33,000
calculation is made.

1328
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:35,789
So measuring from the boundary not only protects the

1329
01:15:35,789 --> 01:15:37,000
movement of the wells,

1330
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:40,569
but allows the drilling of additional wells on the same

1331
01:15:40,569 --> 01:15:44,220
location and affords the thousand feet plus for any well

1332
01:15:44,220 --> 01:15:46,000
drilled in the center.

1333
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:49,029
In addition, what we've noticed though is that some of the

1334
01:15:49,029 --> 01:15:51,000
concern isn't just from the well.

1335
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:55,439
So by having a site setback, what you're protecting is all

1336
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:59,710
operations on that site from a distance of whatever that

1337
01:15:59,710 --> 01:16:02,000
setback distance may be.

1338
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:05,649
So if you have appurtenances or tank batteries, something

1339
01:16:05,649 --> 01:16:10,000
located could be 75 feet or 100 feet away from the well.

1340
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:12,300
There's also some concern with those other pieces of

1341
01:16:12,300 --> 01:16:13,000
equipment.

1342
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:16,869
So again, a site boundary affords the opportunity to locate

1343
01:16:16,869 --> 01:16:19,000
everything within the same site,

1344
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:21,470
and no matter where it's at on that location you still know

1345
01:16:21,470 --> 01:16:24,000
that you're meeting that minimum setback distance.

1346
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:27,029
>> And how does measuring this way benefit the adjacent

1347
01:16:27,029 --> 01:16:29,000
property owner in your opinion?

1348
01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:33,409
>> Well, I think what it does is give the opportunity for a

1349
01:16:33,409 --> 01:16:38,760
clear delineation and a one-time measurement as opposed to

1350
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:40,000
multiple measurements.

1351
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:42,579
One of the requirements for any ordinance change is

1352
01:16:42,579 --> 01:16:45,680
obviously it has to be commercially reasonable and cannot

1353
01:16:45,680 --> 01:16:48,000
prohibit oil and gas development.

1354
01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:51,699
So if we took a measurement from every well, we would not

1355
01:16:51,699 --> 01:16:55,069
give that property owner any distance separation

1356
01:16:55,069 --> 01:16:57,000
necessarily from those other pieces of equipment.

1357
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:00,369
And we may preclude an operator for getting the opportunity

1358
01:17:00,369 --> 01:17:02,000
to add additional wells.

1359
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:05,420
So that certainty I think for both the surface property

1360
01:17:05,420 --> 01:17:08,609
owner, adjacent surface property owner and the gas well

1361
01:17:08,609 --> 01:17:11,260
operator is one of the things we needed to find that

1362
01:17:11,260 --> 01:17:12,000
balance for.

1363
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:15,000
And this site setback helps us get there.

1364
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:16,000
>> Thanks, Darren.

1365
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:17,000
>> Yes, sir.

1366
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:19,000
>> Mr. Broden.

1367
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:21,000
>> Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem.

1368
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:24,930
A few questions, and a lot of the comments we've gotten up

1369
01:17:24,930 --> 01:17:28,699
to this point either last week or even via email or phone

1370
01:17:28,699 --> 01:17:33,000
calls or whatnot represent these changes,

1371
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:35,760
these amendments as some sort of major retreat from our

1372
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:37,000
previous ordinance.

1373
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:41,050
And I just want to ask some questions to try and clarify

1374
01:17:41,050 --> 01:17:44,479
that because as I see it, in some cases it's not a retreat

1375
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:45,000
at all.

1376
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:48,000
It's actually a better ordinance.

1377
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:51,510
So maybe from the perspective of a frac ban, I could

1378
01:17:51,510 --> 01:17:53,000
understand that.

1379
01:17:53,000 --> 01:17:55,300
So I just want to clarify that prior to getting some

1380
01:17:55,300 --> 01:17:58,000
comments just to give us some historical perspective.

1381
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:03,380
So prior to today's amendments, the current status quo set

1382
01:18:03,380 --> 01:18:06,000
back for new wells is what?

1383
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:10,250
>> The current setback would date back to our January 2013

1384
01:18:10,250 --> 01:18:15,829
ordinance that requires a 1,200 foot distance from the site

1385
01:18:15,829 --> 01:18:17,000
for every well.

1386
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:19,000
>> So we're doing 1,000.

1387
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,000
>> We're doing, yeah.

1388
01:18:21,000 --> 01:18:23,260
>> As being suggested in this one, in certain zoning

1389
01:18:23,260 --> 01:18:24,000
categories.

1390
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:25,000
>> That's correct.

1391
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:26,000
>> Right.

1392
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:30,000
In the 2013 ordinance, the minimum setback was what?

1393
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:31,000
>> Was 500 feet.

1394
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:32,000
>> Okay.

1395
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:36,760
So in commercial and residential, that's the same in this

1396
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:38,000
ordinance.

1397
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:41,000
Reverse setbacks in 2013 ordinance?

1398
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:47,460
>> Reverse setbacks in 2013 were 250 feet, but one of the

1399
01:18:47,460 --> 01:18:52,000
problems due to the application of that was that we have a

1400
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:56,000
lot of these sites that predate our 2013 ordinance.

1401
01:18:56,000 --> 01:19:00,659
That 250 foot measurement came into adoption in the middle

1402
01:19:00,659 --> 01:19:04,000
of 2010, August of 2010.

1403
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:09,109
But it did not identify a way to measure for some of those

1404
01:19:09,109 --> 01:19:11,000
existing sites.

1405
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:15,189
What this will do as far as not retreating is actually give

1406
01:19:15,189 --> 01:19:19,989
us the opportunity to provide those same separations from

1407
01:19:19,989 --> 01:19:24,430
existing sites and new sites to that same distance of 250

1408
01:19:24,430 --> 01:19:25,000
feet.

1409
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:27,979
So again, not necessarily a retreat, but what it does is

1410
01:19:27,979 --> 01:19:30,989
capture a way to provide that reverse setback through the

1411
01:19:30,989 --> 01:19:33,869
clarity of adding the definition of existing drilling

1412
01:19:33,869 --> 01:19:37,000
production sites and giving us a measurement for those.

1413
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:39,939
I think again, it's not a retreat, but it also gives us the

1414
01:19:39,939 --> 01:19:42,880
opportunity to measure reverse setback, not just moving

1415
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:45,000
forward, but for what's on the ground.

1416
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:47,449
>> So to press into that a little bit more from a reverse

1417
01:19:47,449 --> 01:19:49,859
setback, one thing we've been discussing, and I want to ask

1418
01:19:49,859 --> 01:19:53,000
you a question about just so it's clear for anyone here,

1419
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:59,489
is trying to give our first responders a 300 foot buffer,

1420
01:19:59,489 --> 01:20:01,000
so to speak.

1421
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:04,850
So while we have 250 feet as our designated reverse setback

1422
01:20:04,850 --> 01:20:08,680
, can you explain how it is that we're actually achieving

1423
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:13,000
what we're calling now an effective 300 foot setback?

1424
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:15,899
>> Well, yeah, that's a good point, and not being the fire

1425
01:20:15,899 --> 01:20:18,100
expert, I don't think I touched upon that on my

1426
01:20:18,100 --> 01:20:19,000
presentation.

1427
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:22,710
But I've learned from the fire marshal and through talking

1428
01:20:22,710 --> 01:20:27,550
with our fire chief that their practice in response to any

1429
01:20:27,550 --> 01:20:32,000
type of emergency is to set a perimeter of 300 feet.

1430
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:36,680
And so what our ordinance proposes is an opportunity to

1431
01:20:36,680 --> 01:20:41,000
address their guidelines as far as setting that perimeter,

1432
01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:44,100
not necessarily to a lot line as our 250 foot distance

1433
01:20:44,100 --> 01:20:48,000
would require, but a 300 foot build area.

1434
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:52,300
So within your property, you would have the opportunity to

1435
01:20:52,300 --> 01:20:55,930
use the rear setback, and within the gas well drilling and

1436
01:20:55,930 --> 01:20:57,000
production site,

1437
01:20:57,000 --> 01:21:00,930
you'd have the opportunity to use any internal setbacks to

1438
01:21:00,930 --> 01:21:05,260
meet a 300 foot separation from those pieces of equipment

1439
01:21:05,260 --> 01:21:09,000
that produce or store flammable liquids and gases.

1440
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:11,430
So from a tank battery, again going back to the previous

1441
01:21:11,430 --> 01:21:14,579
question, the opportunity to draw the boundary gives at

1442
01:21:14,579 --> 01:21:16,000
least 250 feet.

1443
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:18,680
And we've learned that a lot of the tanks operationally are

1444
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:21,689
probably set in 30 to 50 feet from the boundary of the site

1445
01:21:21,689 --> 01:21:22,000
.

1446
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:25,000
So that 300 foot distance may be met.

1447
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:27,899
But again, it's an opportunity for the fire department and

1448
01:21:27,899 --> 01:21:31,000
our emergency responders to have a distance that gives them

1449
01:21:31,000 --> 01:21:33,649
that initial 300 foot measurement as they set up the

1450
01:21:33,649 --> 01:21:36,000
perimeter and evaluate the conditions on the ground.

1451
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:39,380
>> So from that point of view, the setback's technically

1452
01:21:39,380 --> 01:21:42,000
gone up from the 2013 ordinance.

1453
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:45,199
In terms of notification requirements, what was in place in

1454
01:21:45,199 --> 01:21:47,000
the 2013 ordinance?

1455
01:21:47,000 --> 01:21:51,289
>> There was some confusing language about how

1456
01:21:51,289 --> 01:21:54,000
notifications were sent.

1457
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:57,909
So the main thing that we did is add some provisions that

1458
01:21:57,909 --> 01:22:01,920
clarified notifications are required as signage at the

1459
01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:03,000
location.

1460
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:05,000
So that's brand new.

1461
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:08,029
It wasn't required other than a couple of technical issues

1462
01:22:08,029 --> 01:22:11,050
that had to do with an inspector or the railroad commission

1463
01:22:11,050 --> 01:22:13,000
being able to identify the well.

1464
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:15,590
It's actually saying that this is a drilling and production

1465
01:22:15,590 --> 01:22:16,000
site.

1466
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:19,170
That's new and it helps clarify that people are aware that

1467
01:22:19,170 --> 01:22:22,350
these locations exist and that additional wells could be

1468
01:22:22,350 --> 01:22:23,000
added.

1469
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:26,750
But we also have an application requirement now that wasn't

1470
01:22:26,750 --> 01:22:30,000
in our, well, isn't in our current ordinance.

1471
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:33,539
And that gives the opportunity for the operator to notify

1472
01:22:33,539 --> 01:22:36,859
surrounding properties if they're submitting a site

1473
01:22:36,859 --> 01:22:38,000
application.

1474
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:41,029
It also requires a newspaper notification and a sign posted

1475
01:22:41,029 --> 01:22:43,579
at the location saying that their administrative

1476
01:22:43,579 --> 01:22:45,000
application was filed.

1477
01:22:45,000 --> 01:22:49,000
So those things, again, are all brand new notifications.

1478
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:52,649
In addition to that, the clarification came for actual

1479
01:22:52,649 --> 01:22:55,000
activity performed at the site.

1480
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:58,939
So not only is the city notified and we specified which

1481
01:22:58,939 --> 01:23:03,479
items get notification, but we clarified a threshold for

1482
01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:05,000
when those are submitted.

1483
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:07,000
And again, I don't think it's a retreat.

1484
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:10,010
I think it's actually going to allow the operator an

1485
01:23:10,010 --> 01:23:13,510
opportunity to notify residents probably more frequently

1486
01:23:13,510 --> 01:23:15,000
due to those changes.

1487
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:17,000
>> And not just property owners, correct?

1488
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:20,500
Anyone who resides at a residence within the prescribed set

1489
01:23:20,500 --> 01:23:21,000
back.

1490
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:22,000
>> That's correct.

1491
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:26,000
>> And specific activity notifications go to the dwelling.

1492
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:27,000
>> So renters.

1493
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:29,000
>> The renters would get, absolutely.

1494
01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:32,000
>> And then the sound mitigation is a brand new concept in

1495
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:35,470
terms of requiring a sound engineer to come in and mitigate

1496
01:23:35,470 --> 01:23:38,000
the sound within certain distances, correct?

1497
01:23:38,000 --> 01:23:39,000
>> That is correct.

1498
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:41,970
What the sound engineer will do is identify not only for

1499
01:23:41,970 --> 01:23:45,060
the operator, but also for the city so that we can do a

1500
01:23:45,060 --> 01:23:48,510
compliance check to make sure that the operator is actually

1501
01:23:48,510 --> 01:23:50,000
complying with that plan.

1502
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:53,789
But it outlines the steps that the operator must take to

1503
01:23:53,789 --> 01:23:58,000
ensure that whatever threshold that ambient level sets.

1504
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:01,310
So before the noise management plan is even identified,

1505
01:24:01,310 --> 01:24:05,000
there's an ambient level that determines what the noise is.

1506
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:09,000
So the impact isn't a standard across the board threshold.

1507
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:12,000
It is going to be based off of the existing conditions.

1508
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,000
That's what the ambient gives us.

1509
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:17,000
And then allows some overages, some flexibility there.

1510
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:20,500
But the noise management plan will actually address that,

1511
01:24:20,500 --> 01:24:24,069
the current conditions and what the operations will produce

1512
01:24:24,069 --> 01:24:26,000
as far as sound pressures go.

1513
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:29,090
And then it gives the opportunity for the mitigation to

1514
01:24:29,090 --> 01:24:32,000
address the existing conditions on the ground.

1515
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:35,470
So that's a brand new requirement and that plan will be

1516
01:24:35,470 --> 01:24:38,000
submitted with each application.

1517
01:24:38,000 --> 01:24:40,000
>> And finally, I know others want to talk.

1518
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:41,000
Sorry.

1519
01:24:41,000 --> 01:24:43,000
I'm just trying to kind of put them side by side.

1520
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:44,000
>> Yeah.

1521
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:47,489
>> I think there's a certain myth of retreat here from the

1522
01:24:47,489 --> 01:24:51,000
2013 ordinance that I'm trying to clarify.

1523
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:54,180
And then finally, there's this production monitoring, which

1524
01:24:54,180 --> 01:24:57,000
is brand new, wasn't conceived of in 2013.

1525
01:24:57,000 --> 01:24:59,000
You spelled it out a little bit.

1526
01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:03,270
What will that actually entail in the event that someone is

1527
01:25:03,270 --> 01:25:05,000
in close proximity?

1528
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:08,000
What type of monitoring is happening?

1529
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:12,010
>> There's an actual evaluation done of the equipment at

1530
01:25:12,010 --> 01:25:13,000
each site.

1531
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:17,199
So every piece of equipment on that location is supposed to

1532
01:25:17,199 --> 01:25:21,989
have a standard operating pressure, standard operating

1533
01:25:21,989 --> 01:25:23,000
procedure.

1534
01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:26,659
The way it typically functions is going to be identified

1535
01:25:26,659 --> 01:25:30,329
either in the emergency response plan or their measures

1536
01:25:30,329 --> 01:25:32,000
that are submitted.

1537
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:35,979
So what this new proposal would give us is the opportunity

1538
01:25:35,979 --> 01:25:40,050
to evaluate whether or not their equipment is functioning

1539
01:25:40,050 --> 01:25:42,000
as they told us it would.

1540
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:46,409
So if there's any leaky valves, if a thief hatch is left

1541
01:25:46,409 --> 01:25:49,579
open, that will give us the opportunity to identify those

1542
01:25:49,579 --> 01:25:52,000
and take any corrective action as necessary.

1543
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:53,000
>> Thanks, Darren.

1544
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:55,000
>> Yes, sir.

1545
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:57,000
>> Ms. Wathen.

1546
01:25:57,000 --> 01:26:00,000
>> This has to do with people who rent.

1547
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:03,970
There were a lot of citizen comments and concerns, some

1548
01:26:03,970 --> 01:26:07,949
comments on planning and zoning as well about people who

1549
01:26:07,949 --> 01:26:10,000
rent and notifications.

1550
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:14,710
So I want to emphasize that notice with any type of

1551
01:26:14,710 --> 01:26:20,350
production will go to the property so that that renter will

1552
01:26:20,350 --> 01:26:22,000
be notified.

1553
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:27,529
Item two regarding waiver, it is the property owner who

1554
01:26:27,529 --> 01:26:33,420
will have the authority to say yes or no on a waiver, not

1555
01:26:33,420 --> 01:26:37,000
the renter, so that everybody is clear on that.

1556
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:39,000
>> Yeah, thank you for that clarification.

1557
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:41,699
I know some people will read the ordinance and notice two

1558
01:26:41,699 --> 01:26:45,170
different references, and I think what you spelled out

1559
01:26:45,170 --> 01:26:48,619
helps clarify that in some instances, yes, it will be a

1560
01:26:48,619 --> 01:26:50,000
property owner.

1561
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:52,130
Just due to the fact they own the property, any waiver

1562
01:26:52,130 --> 01:26:54,000
would have to come from the property owner.

1563
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:57,239
But in the event of the operations at the location, you are

1564
01:26:57,239 --> 01:27:00,460
correct that the notice would go actually to the property

1565
01:27:00,460 --> 01:27:03,529
and not to somebody living in New York that happens to own

1566
01:27:03,529 --> 01:27:04,000
it.

1567
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:06,000
It goes to who is there.

1568
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:09,000
Thank you for that.

1569
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:10,000
>> Mr. Hawkins.

1570
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:12,000
>> Thank you, mayor pro tem.

1571
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:15,050
Two, in previous ordinances we have not had an access and

1572
01:27:15,050 --> 01:27:17,000
transportation plan, have we?

1573
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:20,000
Is this a new thing or have we had that before?

1574
01:27:20,000 --> 01:27:23,789
>> We have had that before, but I think one of the things

1575
01:27:23,789 --> 01:27:27,510
you may pick up on is the fact that we're using that plan

1576
01:27:27,510 --> 01:27:31,000
now to identify that site access shall not be taken from a

1577
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:32,000
neighborhood street.

1578
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:33,000
>> Right.

1579
01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:36,590
>> That's an actual category identified in our design

1580
01:27:36,590 --> 01:27:38,000
criteria manual.

1581
01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:42,189
So an engineer knows that site access on those levels of

1582
01:27:42,189 --> 01:27:43,000
street.

1583
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:45,619
So we use the term residential, but some people would think

1584
01:27:45,619 --> 01:27:48,000
if there's residences on it, it's residential.

1585
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:52,010
But any neighborhood street, so we do get the plan now, but

1586
01:27:52,010 --> 01:27:54,000
there wasn't that caveat.

1587
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:56,350
So we would review it and make sure it supported the

1588
01:27:56,350 --> 01:27:58,000
equipment and the truck route.

1589
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,689
But now we're actually looking for a restriction on those

1590
01:28:00,689 --> 01:28:02,000
neighborhood streets.

1591
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:03,000
>> Great. Thank you.

1592
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:04,000
>> Yes, sir.

1593
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:06,000
>> Ms. Briggs.

1594
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:12,479
>> I just kind of wanted to go back to 35.5, 10.6A when we

1595
01:28:12,479 --> 01:28:17,000
were talking about waivers and notifications.

1596
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:22,500
I heard this correctly earlier by moving the homeowner, by

1597
01:28:22,500 --> 01:28:27,229
moving into the well, waives the right to -- it's an

1598
01:28:27,229 --> 01:28:33,000
automatic waiver right from the production site setback.

1599
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:35,000
Can you go over that a little bit?

1600
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:37,000
>> Absolutely, yes, ma'am.

1601
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:40,079
Number one on this screen right in the middle there, so per

1602
01:28:40,079 --> 01:28:43,880
section 35.5, 10.6, the reference I think asks for

1603
01:28:43,880 --> 01:28:46,000
explanation on number one there.

1604
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:49,859
So the waivers from 100% of the protected uses, one of the

1605
01:28:49,859 --> 01:28:54,000
ways that we can get that is an operator could go out and

1606
01:28:54,000 --> 01:28:59,000
ask for a signed letter from each protected use owner.

1607
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:04,100
We have the opportunity to identify that in the event that

1608
01:29:04,100 --> 01:29:09,159
property owner developed next to the site up to the reverse

1609
01:29:09,159 --> 01:29:10,000
setback,

1610
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:13,449
that there wouldn't be a need to go back to that same

1611
01:29:13,449 --> 01:29:17,000
property owner and ask for that signed waiver.

1612
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:20,899
So I think your comment is addressing the fact that in the

1613
01:29:20,899 --> 01:29:24,819
instance somebody did build to the minimum, that would

1614
01:29:24,819 --> 01:29:27,000
constitute their waiver.

1615
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:30,739
So the opportunity for an existing site to use that same

1616
01:29:30,739 --> 01:29:35,000
setback distance of 250 feet is what the reverse is.

1617
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:38,779
They would have to get 100% and they'd be starting out with

1618
01:29:38,779 --> 01:29:40,000
at least that one.

1619
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:44,569
It would only affect that one property that somebody built

1620
01:29:44,569 --> 01:29:48,000
to, and it's only perspective so it won't go into the past,

1621
01:29:48,000 --> 01:29:52,340
but after this were to be adopted, the language would say

1622
01:29:52,340 --> 01:29:56,960
in the event somebody builds to, that that would constitute

1623
01:29:56,960 --> 01:29:58,000
a waiver.

1624
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:00,579
>> So they decide to build their house and move into the

1625
01:30:00,579 --> 01:30:02,000
minimum -- the setback.

1626
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:05,000
And so from that point on they have no say in what goes on.

1627
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:07,000
They waive their right.

1628
01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:09,000
>> Well, not quite.

1629
01:30:09,000 --> 01:30:11,000
They didn't waive their right.

1630
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:12,000
They still own the property.

1631
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:14,000
They can still develop the property.

1632
01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:16,739
The only thing that we considered is their consent to

1633
01:30:16,739 --> 01:30:18,000
reduce the setback.

1634
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:19,000
>> The setback.

1635
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:20,000
>> There's still a minimum setback.

1636
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:21,000
>> Okay.

1637
01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:24,000
>> But since we only address the setback once per site,

1638
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:28,000
there won't be a time to go back and address it again.

1639
01:30:28,000 --> 01:30:32,609
So what they waived is their consent to it reduction,

1640
01:30:32,609 --> 01:30:35,000
consent to a reduction.

1641
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:36,000
>> Okay.

1642
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:39,149
I just wanted to make note that our fire chief is here in

1643
01:30:39,149 --> 01:30:41,000
case we have any questions.

1644
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:43,000
Or the audience has any questions.

1645
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:44,000
He's here for that.

1646
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:46,000
>> Ms. Briggs, do you have any questions for the chief?

1647
01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:48,000
Why don't you have the floor?

1648
01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:49,000
You're good right now?

1649
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:50,000
Okay.

1650
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:51,000
Mr. Hawkins.

1651
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:53,000
>> Well, just to make sure I understand.

1652
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:55,000
So the house goes to the gas well.

1653
01:30:55,000 --> 01:30:56,000
That is a reverse setback.

1654
01:30:56,000 --> 01:31:00,000
That would be 250 feet if this passes.

1655
01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:01,000
>> That's correct.

1656
01:31:01,000 --> 01:31:04,380
>> Let's say that gas well site puts a second gas well on

1657
01:31:04,380 --> 01:31:05,000
there.

1658
01:31:05,000 --> 01:31:09,000
That setback now is 250 feet.

1659
01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:10,000
Right?

1660
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:13,000
That's what, since the house went to the gas well.

1661
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:16,500
>> Well, what we identified in the setbacks is that there's

1662
01:31:16,500 --> 01:31:20,000
still, if it's an existing site and somebody built to it,

1663
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:22,970
if an operator in a district that isn't industrial

1664
01:31:22,970 --> 01:31:27,000
requested a gas well development site plan at that location

1665
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:27,000
,

1666
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:31,000
they would have to meet the site distance of 500 feet.

1667
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:34,000
But there are opportunities to reduce that.

1668
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:38,000
In the event that Councilmember Hawkins' condition laid out

1669
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:42,300
and somebody did build to 250, the setback isn't reduced to

1670
01:31:42,300 --> 01:31:43,000
250.

1671
01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:46,649
What we consider is in the operator's requirement to get

1672
01:31:46,649 --> 01:31:51,149
100% of the protected use property owners between 500 and

1673
01:31:51,149 --> 01:31:54,000
250 to consent to that reduction.

1674
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:57,380
That property owner that chose to develop at 250 feet, they

1675
01:31:57,380 --> 01:32:02,000
've essentially submitted their consent to that reduction.

1676
01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:05,470
But the operator would still be required to get the 100%

1677
01:32:05,470 --> 01:32:09,000
from other property owners to reduce from 500 feet.

1678
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:11,000
It only addresses the one property.

1679
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:12,000
>> Okay.

1680
01:32:12,000 --> 01:32:13,000
Thank you.

1681
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:14,000
>> Yes, sir.

1682
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:16,000
>> I don't see any other questions for staff.

1683
01:32:16,000 --> 01:32:17,000
>> Thank you.

1684
01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:18,000
>> Thank you very much.

1685
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:24,000
Now, here's how we have about 20 cards that wish to speak.

1686
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:27,000
Now, if you want to speak to the item tonight, you have to

1687
01:32:27,000 --> 01:32:28,000
do a blue card.

1688
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:32,000
So you need to turn that into a staff person right away.

1689
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:33,000
We'll have about 20 cards.

1690
01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:36,000
We will hear comments from our citizens.

1691
01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:40,960
We ask that you follow the rules of decorum, that there's

1692
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:45,000
no expressions of delight or disapproval.

1693
01:32:45,000 --> 01:32:49,000
Let folks have their chance to speak.

1694
01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:51,739
This is going to take a little over an hour for these cards

1695
01:32:51,739 --> 01:32:52,000
.

1696
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:58,000
I think we'll probably stop and take a break about 830.

1697
01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:03,100
And then we'll finish the cards and then we will have a

1698
01:33:03,100 --> 01:33:09,350
discussion among the council and motions or amendments and

1699
01:33:09,350 --> 01:33:11,000
things like that.

1700
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:12,000
Ms. Wasign.

1701
01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:16,189
>> I'd request that who's ever on deck go ahead and come

1702
01:33:16,189 --> 01:33:20,000
down and be ready to then come up to the podium.

1703
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:21,000
>> You bet.

1704
01:33:21,000 --> 01:33:25,000
And I will call two names at a time so that we'll know.

1705
01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:26,000
So I believe we're ready.

1706
01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:29,000
So first up will be Larry Beck.

1707
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:31,350
When you come up, if you would state your name and your

1708
01:33:31,350 --> 01:33:33,000
address, your time would begin.

1709
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:46,000
And then on deck would be Topher Jones.

1710
01:33:46,000 --> 01:33:47,000
>> Good evening.

1711
01:33:47,000 --> 01:33:48,000
My name's Larry Beck.

1712
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:50,000
I live at 915E Sherman Drive.

1713
01:33:50,000 --> 01:33:53,000
Thank you for letting me speak tonight.

1714
01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:56,510
What we find ourselves deciding today after being denied

1715
01:33:56,510 --> 01:34:00,069
our fracking ban vis-a-vis a VHB 40 is the limited ability

1716
01:34:00,069 --> 01:34:03,340
to prevent the oil and gas industry from doing what they do

1717
01:34:03,340 --> 01:34:07,000
at distances where damages will be hopefully minimal if a

1718
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:08,000
well head explodes or the waste

1719
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:11,000
product gets spilled into streams or drainage pipes.

1720
01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:14,380
It's become clear that land which could be used to develop

1721
01:34:14,380 --> 01:34:17,859
new homes or businesses face restraints that consume large

1722
01:34:17,859 --> 01:34:21,359
areas of their land because of setback distances from wheel

1723
01:34:21,359 --> 01:34:22,000
heads.

1724
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:24,899
Land that essentially becomes valueless because of the

1725
01:34:24,899 --> 01:34:27,760
serious health and safety risks that gas and oil wells pose

1726
01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:28,000
.

1727
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:31,670
Landowners understandably want a minimal setback distance

1728
01:34:31,670 --> 01:34:34,880
so they can utilize as much as the land that they can for

1729
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:36,000
development.

1730
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:39,479
This of course benefits us as a city as we grow providing

1731
01:34:39,479 --> 01:34:41,000
more homes and jobs.

1732
01:34:41,000 --> 01:34:45,000
But should we plan our future with an economic vision only?

1733
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:47,899
In our efforts to widen our tax base and make room for

1734
01:34:47,899 --> 01:34:51,329
expansion, do we unthinkingly minimize the hazards that lie

1735
01:34:51,329 --> 01:34:54,000
within close proximity of this new growth?

1736
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:57,029
This issue doesn't directly affect me where I live off of

1737
01:34:57,029 --> 01:35:00,039
Sherman Drive near the old Piggly Wigley so I have no skin

1738
01:35:00,039 --> 01:35:01,000
in this game.

1739
01:35:01,000 --> 01:35:03,899
So why am I here to insist that we ensure the greatest

1740
01:35:03,899 --> 01:35:06,000
possible distances for these setbacks?

1741
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:11,180
Think back to April 2013 when an ammonium nitrate explosion

1742
01:35:11,180 --> 01:35:15,000
occurred at the fertilizer plant in West Texas.

1743
01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:17,899
The emergency services personnel who were responding to a

1744
01:35:17,899 --> 01:35:20,989
fire at the facility prior to the explosion were instantly

1745
01:35:20,989 --> 01:35:24,000
killed along with two civilian volunteers.

1746
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:28,189
All total 15 people were killed, more than 160 were injured

1747
01:35:28,189 --> 01:35:32,000
, and more than 150 buildings were damaged or destroyed.

1748
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:35,479
Before this deadly explosion occurred, the writing was bold

1749
01:35:35,479 --> 01:35:38,869
ly written across the wall about the threat this plant posed

1750
01:35:38,869 --> 01:35:42,000
to the health and safety of workers and nearby residents.

1751
01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:44,930
The plant owners had been warned and fined numerous times

1752
01:35:44,930 --> 01:35:47,800
by various state and federal agencies and yet buildup of

1753
01:35:47,800 --> 01:35:50,000
ammonium nitrate was never resolved.

1754
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:53,210
I remember shaking my head when I realized that the people

1755
01:35:53,210 --> 01:35:56,100
that could have done and should have taken action to

1756
01:35:56,100 --> 01:35:59,000
prevent this fiasco did essentially nothing.

1757
01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:01,899
No one took responsibility, no one stepped up and said

1758
01:36:01,899 --> 01:36:03,000
enough is enough.

1759
01:36:03,000 --> 01:36:07,189
Now 15 families have suffered the worst possible outcome of

1760
01:36:07,189 --> 01:36:09,000
this do nothing attitude.

1761
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:12,550
I don't want Denton to suffer this consequence from doing

1762
01:36:12,550 --> 01:36:15,000
too little or simply doing nothing.

1763
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:17,510
Those who feel the need to see Denton's future and the

1764
01:36:17,510 --> 01:36:20,420
economic promise of this land yet to be developed must be

1765
01:36:20,420 --> 01:36:23,439
prepared to be responsible enough to also see the

1766
01:36:23,439 --> 01:36:25,000
consequences of their action

1767
01:36:25,000 --> 01:36:28,670
that allows homes and businesses in close proximity to a

1768
01:36:28,670 --> 01:36:32,250
deadly toxic industry not unlike that of the West Texas

1769
01:36:32,250 --> 01:36:34,000
fertilizer factory.

1770
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:37,670
Thinking such a horrific accident will never occur or worse

1771
01:36:37,670 --> 01:36:41,630
, hoping it won't, will do little to assuage the conscience

1772
01:36:41,630 --> 01:36:46,189
of us when a deadly explosion takes out nearby homes and

1773
01:36:46,189 --> 01:36:48,000
the people who reside therein.

1774
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:51,510
Families with children and even babies who put their trust

1775
01:36:51,510 --> 01:36:54,520
in the decisions of people who put more emphasis on

1776
01:36:54,520 --> 01:36:57,899
economic development than they did sensible health and

1777
01:36:57,899 --> 01:37:01,000
safety standards that would protect human life. Thank you.

1778
01:37:01,000 --> 01:37:08,649
Thank you Mr. Beck. Mr. Tofer Jones and up next is Ed

1779
01:37:08,649 --> 01:37:10,000
Ireland.

1780
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:15,329
Hi, Tofer Jones, 419 Fulton Street here in Denton. Thanks

1781
01:37:15,329 --> 01:37:17,000
for allowing me to speak tonight.

1782
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:19,899
My neighbors and my friends and I and many citizens have

1783
01:37:19,899 --> 01:37:23,000
worked hard to keep fracking out of our neighborhoods.

1784
01:37:23,000 --> 01:37:26,470
We fought for our health and safety. We knocked on doors

1785
01:37:26,470 --> 01:37:30,079
throughout Denton and we voted to keep this type of

1786
01:37:30,079 --> 01:37:33,000
industry out of our backyards and we won.

1787
01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:36,869
In light of this, I'm asking the council to please pass the

1788
01:37:36,869 --> 01:37:39,000
strongest possible ordinance.

1789
01:37:39,000 --> 01:37:42,159
And I'd like to kind of reiterate what's been said before

1790
01:37:42,159 --> 01:37:44,000
and what I think this means.

1791
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:48,520
I believe that we should go with 1500 foot for both setback

1792
01:37:48,520 --> 01:37:51,000
and reverse setback distances.

1793
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:54,369
Both Dallas and Flower Mound have these in place and I don

1794
01:37:54,369 --> 01:37:57,000
't see why we shouldn't go for this also.

1795
01:37:57,000 --> 01:38:03,000
250 feet is completely unacceptable for reverse setbacks.

1796
01:38:03,000 --> 01:38:06,380
And if this doesn't work, then I'm wondering why we can't

1797
01:38:06,380 --> 01:38:11,000
keep the 1200 foot with like that of the 2013 ordinance.

1798
01:38:11,000 --> 01:38:15,409
1000 foot is the absolute minimum that you guys should

1799
01:38:15,409 --> 01:38:19,000
approve for both setbacks and reverse setbacks.

1800
01:38:19,000 --> 01:38:22,149
It's also a bit bothersome that there's some possible

1801
01:38:22,149 --> 01:38:25,579
conflicts of interest with some of you maybe regarding set

1802
01:38:25,579 --> 01:38:26,000
backs.

1803
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:28,699
And if that's the case, I would hope that you would not

1804
01:38:28,699 --> 01:38:30,000
vote on this tonight.

1805
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:33,670
Excuse yourself from that. I think you should do away with

1806
01:38:33,670 --> 01:38:35,000
variances.

1807
01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:37,000
What are the real purpose of these things?

1808
01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:40,350
I mean, it seems like that these just give industry

1809
01:38:40,350 --> 01:38:44,000
priority and maybe grant some exemptions for them.

1810
01:38:44,000 --> 01:38:49,000
So please do away with variances in this ordinance.

1811
01:38:49,000 --> 01:38:51,770
I suggest that when a permit has been approved for

1812
01:38:51,770 --> 01:38:54,000
continued fracking in the neighborhood,

1813
01:38:54,000 --> 01:38:57,199
that community get notification at least two weeks prior to

1814
01:38:57,199 --> 01:38:59,000
the beginning of operations.

1815
01:38:59,000 --> 01:39:03,000
Anything less than this, I think, is unacceptable.

1816
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:06,229
Notifications should not only be on the city website, but I

1817
01:39:06,229 --> 01:39:10,000
think they should be handed out through mailers or flyers

1818
01:39:10,000 --> 01:39:13,439
and possible maybe a sign posted in a neighborhood for all

1819
01:39:13,439 --> 01:39:17,520
to see, not just the frack well site, but maybe an entrance

1820
01:39:17,520 --> 01:39:19,000
to a neighborhood also.

1821
01:39:19,000 --> 01:39:24,130
And anyone moving into Denton should, especially renters or

1822
01:39:24,130 --> 01:39:26,000
maybe somebody moving into a new neighborhood

1823
01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:29,680
that are moving to an existing frack well site should be

1824
01:39:29,680 --> 01:39:33,180
notified prior to moving in with a separate flyer or

1825
01:39:33,180 --> 01:39:37,359
something like the lead paint flyer that you get when you

1826
01:39:37,359 --> 01:39:39,000
move into a new place.

1827
01:39:39,000 --> 01:39:42,220
Air and water testing should be completed both pre and post

1828
01:39:42,220 --> 01:39:43,000
fracking.

1829
01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:46,000
I think it should also be completed during the process.

1830
01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:49,010
This should be completed by a third party and paid for by

1831
01:39:49,010 --> 01:39:50,000
the industry.

1832
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:54,189
If this is a safe practice industry, as they suggest, then

1833
01:39:54,189 --> 01:39:58,000
they should not, they shouldn't be opposed to this.

1834
01:39:58,000 --> 01:40:02,550
We need to know if they're operating within the state and

1835
01:40:02,550 --> 01:40:04,000
federal laws.

1836
01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:06,670
I think that you should also be talking about requiring

1837
01:40:06,670 --> 01:40:12,000
vapor recovery units. Please push for vapor recovery units.

1838
01:40:12,000 --> 01:40:16,189
There's also I think that pits should be banned and permit,

1839
01:40:16,189 --> 01:40:20,000
the permit fees should be increased significantly.

1840
01:40:20,000 --> 01:40:22,210
There's no need to make this easier for the industry to

1841
01:40:22,210 --> 01:40:24,000
continue fracking.

1842
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:26,119
And they know we don't want in here and so do you guys. So

1843
01:40:26,119 --> 01:40:29,449
I'm asking you guys to take a look at these, please. Thank

1844
01:40:29,449 --> 01:40:30,000
you.

1845
01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:32,000
Thank you very much. Question for staff.

1846
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:37,640
When we talked about the notices going out to residents and

1847
01:40:37,640 --> 01:40:42,510
to property owners, notice for activity, what is the

1848
01:40:42,510 --> 01:40:44,000
timeline?

1849
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:47,600
According to the ordinance. Do you need a minute to look it

1850
01:40:47,600 --> 01:40:48,000
up?

1851
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:51,449
Yeah, I'll take a minute. But it's a notice that goes out

1852
01:40:51,449 --> 01:40:57,140
to the properties for any activity where you're drilling,

1853
01:40:57,140 --> 01:40:59,000
working over, performing completion,

1854
01:40:59,000 --> 01:41:01,250
completion, completion, plugging and abandoning or

1855
01:41:01,250 --> 01:41:03,000
performing other maintenance activities.

1856
01:41:03,000 --> 01:41:06,710
And it has to go out. It has to go out no sooner than 20

1857
01:41:06,710 --> 01:41:10,000
days and no later than two days prior to those activities.

1858
01:41:10,000 --> 01:41:14,000
Twenty to two days. Twenty to two. Okay.

1859
01:41:14,000 --> 01:41:25,000
Ed Ireland and after him, Randy Sorrels.

1860
01:41:25,000 --> 01:41:30,119
My name is Ed Ireland, 777 Taylor Street in Fort Worth,

1861
01:41:30,119 --> 01:41:31,000
Texas.

1862
01:41:31,000 --> 01:41:33,899
At the city council meeting last week, there was a

1863
01:41:33,899 --> 01:41:38,210
discussion about whether or not a 1000 foot setback in a

1864
01:41:38,210 --> 01:41:42,369
neighboring municipality is commercially reasonable under a

1865
01:41:42,369 --> 01:41:46,000
prima facie clause in HB 40,

1866
01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:50,039
which would provide a legal basis for the city of Denton to

1867
01:41:50,039 --> 01:41:53,000
implement the same setback distance.

1868
01:41:53,000 --> 01:41:56,180
I emphasize again that there is a that that is a misreading

1869
01:41:56,180 --> 01:41:58,000
of the law for three reasons.

1870
01:41:58,000 --> 01:42:01,609
And I prepared a fact sheet that I sent to the staff and I

1871
01:42:01,609 --> 01:42:05,479
think maybe it got distributed electronically just so it

1872
01:42:05,479 --> 01:42:07,000
was written down.

1873
01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:10,000
But three reasons that that's a misreading.

1874
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:14,220
One is commercially reasonable is only one of the criteria

1875
01:42:14,220 --> 01:42:18,000
for evaluating the legality of a city ordinance.

1876
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:23,000
Second, a five year prima facie status is not irrefutable,

1877
01:42:23,000 --> 01:42:27,000
as was emphasized by your city attorney who said, quote,

1878
01:42:27,000 --> 01:42:30,289
what it is not is an irrefutable presumption of reasonab

1879
01:42:30,289 --> 01:42:31,000
leness.

1880
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:34,479
In other words, satisfying this five year prima facie

1881
01:42:34,479 --> 01:42:38,069
status will not automatically make a setback distance

1882
01:42:38,069 --> 01:42:40,000
commercially reasonable.

1883
01:42:40,000 --> 01:42:43,000
And third, specific conditions must be considered.

1884
01:42:43,000 --> 01:42:47,189
Every city is different, which is why HB 40 did not

1885
01:42:47,189 --> 01:42:51,000
establish a statewide standards for commercially reasonable

1886
01:42:51,000 --> 01:42:51,000
.

1887
01:42:51,000 --> 01:42:56,649
Factors such as population, population density, topography

1888
01:42:56,649 --> 01:43:01,760
and other surface realities vary across the state and even

1889
01:43:01,760 --> 01:43:03,000
within a city.

1890
01:43:03,000 --> 01:43:08,090
Regarding one of the provisions about preemption by state

1891
01:43:08,090 --> 01:43:13,159
law, I wanted to emphasize I think your proposed ordinance

1892
01:43:13,159 --> 01:43:16,000
does not cover vapor recovery units.

1893
01:43:16,000 --> 01:43:19,260
And that is the right decision to make because vapor

1894
01:43:19,260 --> 01:43:22,800
recovery units are not required for the most part in the

1895
01:43:22,800 --> 01:43:24,000
city of Denton.

1896
01:43:24,000 --> 01:43:26,000
The gas that's produced here is dry.

1897
01:43:26,000 --> 01:43:28,000
There are no condensate tanks.

1898
01:43:28,000 --> 01:43:29,000
There are no tanks.

1899
01:43:29,000 --> 01:43:32,000
There is nothing to hook a vapor recovery unit to.

1900
01:43:32,000 --> 01:43:34,000
They will not operate.

1901
01:43:34,000 --> 01:43:36,000
They're not needed.

1902
01:43:36,000 --> 01:43:40,510
Finally, on pad size, pad sizes, pad site sizes, I believe

1903
01:43:40,510 --> 01:43:45,000
in your proposed ordinance now you have a three acre site.

1904
01:43:45,000 --> 01:43:51,000
That is small, but at least it's workable size.

1905
01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:54,000
I think you shouldn't have a size limitation.

1906
01:43:54,000 --> 01:43:57,600
You should just be able to let the operator prove up

1907
01:43:57,600 --> 01:44:01,710
whatever size is needed because that's how you encourage

1908
01:44:01,710 --> 01:44:06,000
multiple wells being drilled on the same pad site.

1909
01:44:06,000 --> 01:44:09,489
So if you make a requirement that they're too small, you

1910
01:44:09,489 --> 01:44:13,000
will not get the multiple wells drilled on a pad site.

1911
01:44:13,000 --> 01:44:16,310
So a three acre minimum with proving up whatever size is

1912
01:44:16,310 --> 01:44:20,000
required I think would be your most reasonable approach.

1913
01:44:20,000 --> 01:44:23,000
Thank you.

1914
01:44:23,000 --> 01:44:27,050
One thing that I should have asked each speaker to do at

1915
01:44:27,050 --> 01:44:30,250
the start, I'll ask you at the end, is as you start, after

1916
01:44:30,250 --> 01:44:34,000
you say your name and your address, if you would just say

1917
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:39,590
that you're opposed to the current proposed ordinance or

1918
01:44:39,590 --> 01:44:43,000
you're in favor of it, are you opposed or in favor?

1919
01:44:43,000 --> 01:44:46,920
There are parts of it that I would be opposed to and just

1920
01:44:46,920 --> 01:44:51,109
cited my suggestions, but overall I think you've come up

1921
01:44:51,109 --> 01:44:55,470
with a tough ordinance, but for the most part it's workable

1922
01:44:55,470 --> 01:44:56,000
.

1923
01:44:56,000 --> 01:45:01,000
Okay. We have some questions for you, Ms. Briggs.

1924
01:45:01,000 --> 01:45:05,909
As far as a legal challenge, I just want to remind you that

1925
01:45:05,909 --> 01:45:10,560
the law has to be applied on a rational basis, and I ask

1926
01:45:10,560 --> 01:45:15,800
industry not to manipulate the intent of HB 40 from what

1927
01:45:15,800 --> 01:45:19,439
the legislature intended by saying that setbacks in

1928
01:45:19,439 --> 01:45:25,000
different areas for different situations won't work.

1929
01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:26,000
That's all. Thank you.

1930
01:45:26,000 --> 01:45:30,000
Are there other questions?

1931
01:45:30,000 --> 01:45:31,000
Mr. Rogen.

1932
01:45:31,000 --> 01:45:33,899
I did want to dig into this comment about commercially

1933
01:45:33,899 --> 01:45:35,000
reasonable as it.

1934
01:45:35,000 --> 01:45:37,470
You started off talking about this comparison to other

1935
01:45:37,470 --> 01:45:38,000
cities.

1936
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:40,250
And if something works in one city maybe it's not going to

1937
01:45:40,250 --> 01:45:42,659
work in another city because of differences in geology, top

1938
01:45:42,659 --> 01:45:45,000
ography and all these things that you mentioned.

1939
01:45:45,000 --> 01:45:47,000
Then you made a clarification.

1940
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:51,260
You said that might even be the case within a city that

1941
01:45:51,260 --> 01:45:54,069
there might be a setback provision that works in one

1942
01:45:54,069 --> 01:45:57,000
situation that doesn't work in another situation.

1943
01:45:57,000 --> 01:46:02,869
Is that true? Is that kind of how you understand the

1944
01:46:02,869 --> 01:46:06,069
commercially reasonableness concept of HB 40 and how that

1945
01:46:06,069 --> 01:46:08,960
might be played out that even within a known -- internal to

1946
01:46:08,960 --> 01:46:11,489
a city, there might have to be different rules for

1947
01:46:11,489 --> 01:46:13,000
different well sites?

1948
01:46:13,000 --> 01:46:17,409
Well, HB 40 did not specify that it has to be between the

1949
01:46:17,409 --> 01:46:19,000
municipalities.

1950
01:46:19,000 --> 01:46:21,000
It just refers to commercially reasonable.

1951
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:22,000
Right.

1952
01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:25,000
So I guess ultimately that's however that's interpreted.

1953
01:46:25,000 --> 01:46:27,000
Gotcha.

1954
01:46:27,000 --> 01:46:28,000
Okay.

1955
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:29,000
Thank you.

1956
01:46:29,000 --> 01:46:30,000
Mr. Hawkins.

1957
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:33,000
I too was puzzled last week by that and I was trying to

1958
01:46:33,000 --> 01:46:34,000
figure it out.

1959
01:46:34,000 --> 01:46:36,000
I think I still am.

1960
01:46:36,000 --> 01:46:39,000
And I bet you I know the answer to this.

1961
01:46:39,000 --> 01:46:43,579
But if minerals were more difficult to get out of the

1962
01:46:43,579 --> 01:46:48,289
ground for us to be commercially reasonable, are we

1963
01:46:48,289 --> 01:46:53,000
supposed to have less stringent of an ordinance?

1964
01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:58,640
So if the topography was, you know, rough and rocky, we're

1965
01:46:58,640 --> 01:47:03,000
supposed to have a more lenient ordinance?

1966
01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:06,430
Well, again, ultimately that is going to get determined

1967
01:47:06,430 --> 01:47:09,000
through I would imagine a legal process.

1968
01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:10,000
Sure.

1969
01:47:10,000 --> 01:47:13,569
And so however that might play out given all the factors

1970
01:47:13,569 --> 01:47:17,000
that would have to be taken into consideration.

1971
01:47:17,000 --> 01:47:18,000
Okay.

1972
01:47:18,000 --> 01:47:20,000
Thank you.

1973
01:47:20,000 --> 01:47:21,000
I don't see any more questions.

1974
01:47:21,000 --> 01:47:22,000
Thank you, Mr. Ireland.

1975
01:47:22,000 --> 01:47:23,000
Thank you.

1976
01:47:23,000 --> 01:47:28,000
Randy Sorrels and Bobby Jones is on deck.

1977
01:47:28,000 --> 01:47:30,000
My name is Randy Sorrels.

1978
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:32,000
I live at 3501 Rose Lawn Drive.

1979
01:47:32,000 --> 01:47:35,180
We have approximately 100 acres of property there in the

1980
01:47:35,180 --> 01:47:36,000
city limits.

1981
01:47:36,000 --> 01:47:39,000
And your position on the ordinance, your favor or opposed?

1982
01:47:39,000 --> 01:47:42,439
Well, my position on the ordinance is I'm concerned with

1983
01:47:42,439 --> 01:47:45,659
the people that were grandfathered in or already have

1984
01:47:45,659 --> 01:47:48,000
existing wells on their property.

1985
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:50,000
I want to make my comments about that.

1986
01:47:50,000 --> 01:47:51,000
Sure.

1987
01:47:51,000 --> 01:47:56,000
We have three immediately around our house that we can see.

1988
01:47:56,000 --> 01:48:00,189
We have a water well that sits almost in the middle of the

1989
01:48:00,189 --> 01:48:03,000
triangle between three gas wells.

1990
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:05,000
I've had the water tested three different times.

1991
01:48:05,000 --> 01:48:09,770
We've had no problems, no issues, same as it was 20 years

1992
01:48:09,770 --> 01:48:14,109
ago, a little high in sodium, soft water, that type of

1993
01:48:14,109 --> 01:48:15,000
stuff.

1994
01:48:15,000 --> 01:48:19,029
But when we drilled these wells or when these wells were

1995
01:48:19,029 --> 01:48:22,000
drilled, we went through the city.

1996
01:48:22,000 --> 01:48:25,920
We dotted our I's, crossed our T's, complied with all the

1997
01:48:25,920 --> 01:48:29,000
ordinances, everything that was needed.

1998
01:48:29,000 --> 01:48:31,000
We have minimum setbacks.

1999
01:48:31,000 --> 01:48:33,000
We've had no complaints.

2000
01:48:33,000 --> 01:48:36,000
These wells have been operating since 2003.

2001
01:48:36,000 --> 01:48:40,000
We've had no issues of noise, any issues of complaints.

2002
01:48:40,000 --> 01:48:43,000
We've had no problems.

2003
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:46,000
We've raised three children. They're all Duke scholars.

2004
01:48:46,000 --> 01:48:50,409
We have 50-plus animals that live out there, two different

2005
01:48:50,409 --> 01:48:52,000
tanks we fish out of.

2006
01:48:52,000 --> 01:48:54,750
We've had none of the issues that we hear from other people

2007
01:48:54,750 --> 01:48:55,000
.

2008
01:48:55,000 --> 01:48:58,489
And this was with the older technology that we had years

2009
01:48:58,489 --> 01:48:59,000
ago.

2010
01:48:59,000 --> 01:49:04,439
Sad to say, in every industry, there are sometimes

2011
01:49:04,439 --> 01:49:06,000
incidents.

2012
01:49:06,000 --> 01:49:08,579
If we had a plane crash this afternoon, we wouldn't shut

2013
01:49:08,579 --> 01:49:10,810
all the planes down in the United States because there was

2014
01:49:10,810 --> 01:49:12,000
some type of a tragedy.

2015
01:49:12,000 --> 01:49:15,000
It happens in the industry. We like the regulations.

2016
01:49:15,000 --> 01:49:19,000
We support responsible people and their operations.

2017
01:49:19,000 --> 01:49:22,390
But we also enjoy this winter when we're heating our

2018
01:49:22,390 --> 01:49:25,460
schools and stuff, that the price of natural gas is at a

2019
01:49:25,460 --> 01:49:29,000
record low right now so that we can heat our buildings,

2020
01:49:29,000 --> 01:49:32,000
keep our kids warm in school.

2021
01:49:32,000 --> 01:49:34,000
It's a very positive thing.

2022
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:36,939
So my comments were that I live in a situation where all

2023
01:49:36,939 --> 01:49:40,000
this stuff has happened with the older technology.

2024
01:49:40,000 --> 01:49:42,899
I look forward to the newer technology where they can red

2025
01:49:42,899 --> 01:49:45,000
rill these wells from a half a mile away.

2026
01:49:45,000 --> 01:49:47,000
I won't even see them.

2027
01:49:47,000 --> 01:49:50,649
That's a potential that we could have and re-get production

2028
01:49:50,649 --> 01:49:52,000
, things go good.

2029
01:49:52,000 --> 01:49:56,000
And it's been a very positive thing.

2030
01:49:56,000 --> 01:49:58,779
And I hear a lot of the other comments, and I just want to

2031
01:49:58,779 --> 01:50:00,000
state my side of it.

2032
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:06,000
And we're very happy and still living there.

2033
01:50:06,000 --> 01:50:10,000
Thank you. We have a question, Ms. Briggs.

2034
01:50:10,000 --> 01:50:14,000
I'm just curious how close your home is to the wells.

2035
01:50:14,000 --> 01:50:16,260
The first gas well, every morning I see it when I walk into

2036
01:50:16,260 --> 01:50:17,000
my bathroom.

2037
01:50:17,000 --> 01:50:20,000
I have two four by six glass windows.

2038
01:50:20,000 --> 01:50:23,000
And as I look out, it's about 300 feet from my house.

2039
01:50:23,000 --> 01:50:25,000
300 feet.

2040
01:50:25,000 --> 01:50:26,810
Approximately. I mean, I have to get out there and measure

2041
01:50:26,810 --> 01:50:28,000
it. Maybe 400.

2042
01:50:28,000 --> 01:50:31,000
I have two, I'm a very green person.

2043
01:50:31,000 --> 01:50:33,000
I have two wind turbines on my property.

2044
01:50:33,000 --> 01:50:35,000
I get my electricity from wind.

2045
01:50:35,000 --> 01:50:37,000
I also have solar.

2046
01:50:37,000 --> 01:50:41,619
So I'm not quite the old, I am a property owner, I am a

2047
01:50:41,619 --> 01:50:43,000
mineral owner, and I'm happy about it.

2048
01:50:43,000 --> 01:50:44,000
Yes.

2049
01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:48,000
But I'm also trying to do my part as far as other things.

2050
01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:49,000
Thank you.

2051
01:50:49,000 --> 01:50:50,000
Thank you very much.

2052
01:50:50,000 --> 01:50:51,000
Okay. Thank you all.

2053
01:50:51,000 --> 01:50:57,000
All right. Bobby Jones and after him, Mr. Gilbert Horton.

2054
01:50:57,000 --> 01:51:01,250
Good evening. I'm Bobby Jones, 1824 South Bonney Bray

2055
01:51:01,250 --> 01:51:03,000
Street here in Denton.

2056
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:07,289
What I'm here, and I'm not opposed and I'm not for, I'm

2057
01:51:07,289 --> 01:51:09,000
mixed up a little.

2058
01:51:09,000 --> 01:51:11,000
Well, so are we.

2059
01:51:11,000 --> 01:51:14,289
And I understand. And I want to thank you all for the job

2060
01:51:14,289 --> 01:51:15,000
you do.

2061
01:51:15,000 --> 01:51:19,319
What I'm here about is on existing wells, the reverse set

2062
01:51:19,319 --> 01:51:20,000
back.

2063
01:51:20,000 --> 01:51:24,000
I don't have a problem with the 250 foot reverse setback.

2064
01:51:24,000 --> 01:51:28,000
What I do have a problem with is when my wells were put in,

2065
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:32,000
they were put in and designed from the well head,

2066
01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:34,000
not from the well site.

2067
01:51:34,000 --> 01:51:39,229
So now in this new rules, when we go to the well site, I'm

2068
01:51:39,229 --> 01:51:44,000
losing more surface acres around and not only that,

2069
01:51:44,000 --> 01:51:49,619
but like one well head is exactly 250 foot off as required

2070
01:51:49,619 --> 01:51:56,000
with a waiver from the city off of an existing building

2071
01:51:56,000 --> 01:52:01,000
that has since been sold on another property line.

2072
01:52:01,000 --> 01:52:05,189
And then my home from that same well is approximately 300

2073
01:52:05,189 --> 01:52:07,000
foot the other direction.

2074
01:52:07,000 --> 01:52:11,789
When we start going out, not only is everybody losing money

2075
01:52:11,789 --> 01:52:17,000
by going out, but then it's just confusing everything.

2076
01:52:17,000 --> 01:52:20,000
I mean, I did everything by the book.

2077
01:52:20,000 --> 01:52:24,000
I planned for development back in 2001 when we leased.

2078
01:52:24,000 --> 01:52:27,000
These wells have been there since 2002.

2079
01:52:27,000 --> 01:52:29,000
Absolutely no problems.

2080
01:52:29,000 --> 01:52:33,029
We got another well which is approximately 300 foot from my

2081
01:52:33,029 --> 01:52:34,000
mother's home.

2082
01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:39,960
And like I said, we've owned this property except there's

2083
01:52:39,960 --> 01:52:45,420
82 acres there and 18 and a half of them we owned for 40

2084
01:52:45,420 --> 01:52:46,000
plus years.

2085
01:52:46,000 --> 01:52:50,000
The other remainder, 73 years.

2086
01:52:50,000 --> 01:52:51,000
We've been here.

2087
01:52:51,000 --> 01:52:53,000
We pay our taxes.

2088
01:52:53,000 --> 01:52:56,000
And I just, I don't feel like we need to take any more away

2089
01:52:56,000 --> 01:52:56,000
.

2090
01:52:56,000 --> 01:52:59,420
And then I think it's going to add to problems on existing

2091
01:52:59,420 --> 01:53:03,069
wells, not only in my place, but elsewhere, when we start

2092
01:53:03,069 --> 01:53:06,000
moving where our setbacks are,

2093
01:53:06,000 --> 01:53:09,000
because they were designed by a set of rules.

2094
01:53:09,000 --> 01:53:10,000
Thank you.

2095
01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:11,000
Okay.

2096
01:53:11,000 --> 01:53:12,000
We have a question.

2097
01:53:12,000 --> 01:53:13,000
Were you done?

2098
01:53:13,000 --> 01:53:14,000
Yeah.

2099
01:53:14,000 --> 01:53:15,000
Okay.

2100
01:53:15,000 --> 01:53:16,000
We have a question, Mr. Johnson.

2101
01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:20,000
Mr. Jones, thank you for coming out.

2102
01:53:20,000 --> 01:53:22,420
Because you highlight one of the real -- there's a lot of

2103
01:53:22,420 --> 01:53:24,000
challenges with this, right?

2104
01:53:24,000 --> 01:53:28,960
And no matter how we decide on this thing, people leave

2105
01:53:28,960 --> 01:53:33,409
unhappy, which makes it really uncomfortable sitting up

2106
01:53:33,409 --> 01:53:34,000
here.

2107
01:53:34,000 --> 01:53:37,710
You mentioned that you've lived on that property since --

2108
01:53:37,710 --> 01:53:39,000
what did you say?

2109
01:53:39,000 --> 01:53:43,250
Well, my grandparents come to Denton 73 years ago, and they

2110
01:53:43,250 --> 01:53:45,000
bought that property.

2111
01:53:45,000 --> 01:53:51,000
And so they actually had it since then, 35 has cut in.

2112
01:53:51,000 --> 01:53:54,539
They had it -- so now we've got property still on the west

2113
01:53:54,539 --> 01:53:57,000
side in a joint venture of 35.

2114
01:53:57,000 --> 01:54:00,000
Then we've got the property on the east side.

2115
01:54:00,000 --> 01:54:02,899
And another challenging thing that I just thought about was

2116
01:54:02,899 --> 01:54:05,579
the city's getting ready to take some utility easements

2117
01:54:05,579 --> 01:54:07,000
down there near this well,

2118
01:54:07,000 --> 01:54:09,970
so I'm getting condensed when we keep moving both

2119
01:54:09,970 --> 01:54:11,000
directions.

2120
01:54:11,000 --> 01:54:13,000
So the last --

2121
01:54:13,000 --> 01:54:15,000
Ingress and egress.

2122
01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:16,000
Yeah.

2123
01:54:16,000 --> 01:54:18,079
Well, the last gentleman that spoke talked about he's got a

2124
01:54:18,079 --> 01:54:20,000
water well on the site, and he's had his water tested.

2125
01:54:20,000 --> 01:54:23,380
Do you guys have water wells out there, or are you on city

2126
01:54:23,380 --> 01:54:24,000
water?

2127
01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:27,909
My grandparents did have water wells, but we are now on

2128
01:54:27,909 --> 01:54:29,000
city water.

2129
01:54:29,000 --> 01:54:32,369
The water wells had to go away because -- and I'm not

2130
01:54:32,369 --> 01:54:35,609
blaming North Texas, but when they went to water the golf

2131
01:54:35,609 --> 01:54:37,000
course all the time,

2132
01:54:37,000 --> 01:54:40,010
they lowered that water table so low that it was just

2133
01:54:40,010 --> 01:54:42,000
better to be on the city water.

2134
01:54:42,000 --> 01:54:47,159
Have you guys had any health issues as related to the wells

2135
01:54:47,159 --> 01:54:48,000
being --

2136
01:54:48,000 --> 01:54:51,000
Look at me.

2137
01:54:51,000 --> 01:54:52,000
Kindred spirits.

2138
01:54:52,000 --> 01:54:53,000
Thank you.

2139
01:54:53,000 --> 01:54:54,000
Absolutely none.

2140
01:54:54,000 --> 01:54:59,630
I've got my family living there, or me and my wife have my

2141
01:54:59,630 --> 01:55:01,000
mother-in-law.

2142
01:55:01,000 --> 01:55:06,000
My mother lives right up about 400 foot in another home.

2143
01:55:06,000 --> 01:55:12,000
We've been here, and everybody's been there since 2002.

2144
01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:15,000
Both wells, I think, were drilled in two.

2145
01:55:15,000 --> 01:55:19,189
I think actually my well was maybe the first in the city of

2146
01:55:19,189 --> 01:55:20,000
Denton.

2147
01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:21,000
Thank you for coming out.

2148
01:55:21,000 --> 01:55:23,000
You're welcome.

2149
01:55:23,000 --> 01:55:24,000
Thank you very much.

2150
01:55:24,000 --> 01:55:26,000
Thank you.

2151
01:55:26,000 --> 01:55:32,000
Gilbert Horton, and then next is Walt Lindrose.

2152
01:55:32,000 --> 01:55:33,000
Thank you.

2153
01:55:33,000 --> 01:55:34,000
My name is Gilbert Horton.

2154
01:55:34,000 --> 01:55:38,850
I represent Devon Energy 1209 County Road 1304 in Bridge

2155
01:55:38,850 --> 01:55:40,000
port, Texas.

2156
01:55:40,000 --> 01:55:44,140
Again, Council, I want to -- speaking tonight with the

2157
01:55:44,140 --> 01:55:48,000
ordinance as is and as presented,

2158
01:55:48,000 --> 01:55:51,670
leaning towards supportive, doesn't mean we don't still

2159
01:55:51,670 --> 01:55:54,000
have some very big concerns about it,

2160
01:55:54,000 --> 01:55:57,699
but all in all, I believe it's been a product of compromise

2161
01:55:57,699 --> 01:55:58,000
.

2162
01:55:58,000 --> 01:56:02,409
I just want to thank you again for the city staff and for

2163
01:56:02,409 --> 01:56:05,000
the Council for working through this exhaustive process

2164
01:56:05,000 --> 01:56:07,000
to get where we are today.

2165
01:56:07,000 --> 01:56:11,020
I know that much time has and effort and late nights have

2166
01:56:11,020 --> 01:56:14,000
been expended getting to this point.

2167
01:56:14,000 --> 01:56:18,300
We appreciate the progress we believe that's been made the

2168
01:56:18,300 --> 01:56:21,000
last couple of weeks in tightening up the ordinance

2169
01:56:21,000 --> 01:56:23,000
and clearing up ambiguities.

2170
01:56:23,000 --> 01:56:27,229
The city staff has been very open to listening to Devon's

2171
01:56:27,229 --> 01:56:30,000
concerns regarding where we needed clarification,

2172
01:56:30,000 --> 01:56:33,000
where we felt like this language needed to be tightened up,

2173
01:56:33,000 --> 01:56:34,000
where we felt like this was a loophole.

2174
01:56:34,000 --> 01:56:39,000
They've been very, very open to listening to those.

2175
01:56:39,000 --> 01:56:42,970
They've agreed to some and others -- they've not agreed to

2176
01:56:42,970 --> 01:56:46,000
all of our wordsmithing recommendations,

2177
01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:50,000
but I think it's been a very fair process.

2178
01:56:50,000 --> 01:56:53,000
This product before you -- no way is perfect.

2179
01:56:53,000 --> 01:56:56,180
It is, as I said earlier, a product of compromise, but it

2180
01:56:56,180 --> 01:56:58,000
is a tough set of regulations.

2181
01:56:58,000 --> 01:57:01,170
I believe Mr. Grove referred to just some of the enhanced

2182
01:57:01,170 --> 01:57:03,000
-- like the noise mitigation.

2183
01:57:03,000 --> 01:57:08,210
I mean, that is an extremely tougher and expensive, but I

2184
01:57:08,210 --> 01:57:12,000
believe ultimately more effective way to mitigate noise

2185
01:57:12,000 --> 01:57:14,000
than what you have currently had.

2186
01:57:14,000 --> 01:57:18,279
So we're going to try our best to strive under the -- and

2187
01:57:18,279 --> 01:57:21,000
to strive to work with to comply with the regulations

2188
01:57:21,000 --> 01:57:24,000
that are before you tonight should you pass them.

2189
01:57:24,000 --> 01:57:26,250
We do still have one main concern, and that's really what I

2190
01:57:26,250 --> 01:57:30,090
want to focus on, and that is the setbacks on new well

2191
01:57:30,090 --> 01:57:31,000
sites.

2192
01:57:31,000 --> 01:57:34,149
We believe that as an industry, we have consistently

2193
01:57:34,149 --> 01:57:38,000
demonstrated through this past decade or 15 years of

2194
01:57:38,000 --> 01:57:38,000
activity

2195
01:57:38,000 --> 01:57:41,880
that we can operate safely and efficiently within the

2196
01:57:41,880 --> 01:57:44,000
boundary of our pad sites.

2197
01:57:44,000 --> 01:57:47,729
You add to that the extensive set of mitigation and nu

2198
01:57:47,729 --> 01:57:52,000
isance controls proposed in this ordinance before you --

2199
01:57:52,000 --> 01:57:54,600
noise management plan, traffic analysis, erosion control

2200
01:57:54,600 --> 01:57:55,000
plans --

2201
01:57:55,000 --> 01:57:59,199
it's our belief that these proposed setbacks of 1,000 feet

2202
01:57:59,199 --> 01:58:02,000
for new gas well sites can be further reduced

2203
01:58:02,000 --> 01:58:04,670
to a more reasonable distance to not only protect the

2204
01:58:04,670 --> 01:58:06,000
rights of mineral owners,

2205
01:58:06,000 --> 01:58:09,170
but to be certain such a distance is in compliance with

2206
01:58:09,170 --> 01:58:10,000
state law.

2207
01:58:10,000 --> 01:58:13,920
So that is our one big overarching concern over the whole

2208
01:58:13,920 --> 01:58:15,000
ordinance.

2209
01:58:15,000 --> 01:58:19,000
But I do want to finish by saying thank you.

2210
01:58:19,000 --> 01:58:23,039
From as sincere as we can, we appreciate your willingness

2211
01:58:23,039 --> 01:58:25,619
to listen to our concerns, to work through this for the

2212
01:58:25,619 --> 01:58:26,000
past six-plus months

2213
01:58:26,000 --> 01:58:28,000
to get where we are tonight.

2214
01:58:28,000 --> 01:58:31,939
And again, as presented, Devin is, although we still have

2215
01:58:31,939 --> 01:58:35,000
some concerns, I believe overall, if you take it as a whole

2216
01:58:35,000 --> 01:58:35,000
,

2217
01:58:35,000 --> 01:58:39,000
we are supportive of this proposal before you.

2218
01:58:39,000 --> 01:58:41,000
Thank you.

2219
01:58:41,000 --> 01:58:45,000
We have questions from Ms. Briggs.

2220
01:58:45,000 --> 01:58:49,050
Thank you for your time in helping us with our ordinance. I

2221
01:58:49,050 --> 01:58:50,000
appreciate that.

2222
01:58:50,000 --> 01:58:53,119
You do realize that there's a variance process currently in

2223
01:58:53,119 --> 01:58:56,000
that, right, that you guys can go through?

2224
01:58:56,000 --> 01:58:59,439
I do realize that there is a -- and I'm not sure I fully

2225
01:58:59,439 --> 01:59:04,489
understand all of it, but I do realize that there is some

2226
01:59:04,489 --> 01:59:06,000
sort of process.

2227
01:59:06,000 --> 01:59:10,000
Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

2228
01:59:10,000 --> 01:59:11,000
No more questions. Thank you very much.

2229
01:59:11,000 --> 01:59:12,000
Thank you.

2230
01:59:12,000 --> 01:59:24,000
Walt Lindros and then Chris Rosbrum.

2231
01:59:24,000 --> 01:59:29,619
My name is Walt Lindros. I live at 825 Lindhurst Lane, 7620

2232
01:59:29,619 --> 01:59:31,000
5 Denton.

2233
01:59:31,000 --> 01:59:37,189
And I sent all of you, I believe, an email in which I was

2234
01:59:37,189 --> 01:59:43,000
wrestling with the term commercially reasonable,

2235
01:59:43,000 --> 01:59:50,069
and I came up with a prudent operator named Anadarko Pet

2236
01:59:50,069 --> 01:59:54,000
roleum and what they had done in Colorado.

2237
01:59:54,000 --> 01:59:57,630
And one of the things that was acceptable to them as a pr

2238
01:59:57,630 --> 02:00:01,000
udent operator is the thousand foot setback.

2239
02:00:01,000 --> 02:00:08,069
Another thing they did was to erect walls around the rig

2240
02:00:08,069 --> 02:00:11,000
site, 60, 80 feet high,

2241
02:00:11,000 --> 02:00:14,000
lined them with hay bales in order to deaden the noise,

2242
02:00:14,000 --> 02:00:16,939
also to restrict the light from going into the surrounding

2243
02:00:16,939 --> 02:00:19,000
houses, the surrounding community.

2244
02:00:19,000 --> 02:00:24,159
They found one spot where they could bring their trucks in

2245
02:00:24,159 --> 02:00:27,000
order to distribute water to the different well sites,

2246
02:00:27,000 --> 02:00:30,000
and this cut down on the 18 wheelers running through the

2247
02:00:30,000 --> 02:00:31,000
neighborhoods.

2248
02:00:31,000 --> 02:00:36,510
They had monitors set up in order to test the air

2249
02:00:36,510 --> 02:00:38,000
constantly,

2250
02:00:38,000 --> 02:00:41,649
and also they had underground monitors set up so that they

2251
02:00:41,649 --> 02:00:47,000
could determine what kind of toxins were coming into the --

2252
02:00:47,000 --> 02:00:51,000
to the soil from the well site itself.

2253
02:00:51,000 --> 02:00:54,699
I don't know if your ordinance is complete as it is right

2254
02:00:54,699 --> 02:00:58,000
now or if you're just talking about setbacks.

2255
02:00:58,000 --> 02:01:02,189
The other thing is that in listening to this gentleman, he

2256
02:01:02,189 --> 02:01:04,000
's presenting you with a lot of things

2257
02:01:04,000 --> 02:01:08,430
and also presenting me with a lot of things, and much of it

2258
02:01:08,430 --> 02:01:10,000
was summation.

2259
02:01:10,000 --> 02:01:13,560
And I'd like to have an opportunity to take a look at this

2260
02:01:13,560 --> 02:01:17,000
thing a little bit more thoroughly and study it.

2261
02:01:17,000 --> 02:01:21,800
I'm being hit with this all right now, and I'd like to look

2262
02:01:21,800 --> 02:01:24,000
at it more thoroughly.

2263
02:01:24,000 --> 02:01:25,000
Thank you.

2264
02:01:25,000 --> 02:01:28,000
Questions?

2265
02:01:28,000 --> 02:01:29,000
Well, thank you very much.

2266
02:01:29,000 --> 02:01:31,000
Thank you.

2267
02:01:31,000 --> 02:01:37,000
Mr. Rosbrum and then Brandon Finley.

2268
02:01:37,000 --> 02:01:41,840
Chris Rosbrum, 2113 Emerson Lane, Denton, Texas, and I'm

2269
02:01:41,840 --> 02:01:48,000
speaking in favor of the ordinance as presented.

2270
02:01:48,000 --> 02:01:51,510
There's another factor that I don't remember having heard

2271
02:01:51,510 --> 02:01:54,000
come about in all these discussions.

2272
02:01:54,000 --> 02:01:58,430
A couple of years ago, I was called on by a family that had

2273
02:01:58,430 --> 02:02:03,000
two tracks side by side on Country Club Road in City Limits

2274
02:02:03,000 --> 02:02:03,000
,

2275
02:02:03,000 --> 02:02:08,310
50 acres each, and they didn't have a survey, so I had a

2276
02:02:08,310 --> 02:02:10,000
survey performed.

2277
02:02:10,000 --> 02:02:14,409
And then I had Allison Engineering take a look at it, and

2278
02:02:14,409 --> 02:02:19,000
each family owned 50 acres.

2279
02:02:19,000 --> 02:02:20,920
And of course, they were thinking they were going to be

2280
02:02:20,920 --> 02:02:22,000
able to sell 50 acres.

2281
02:02:22,000 --> 02:02:27,699
They had a gas well on each site, and by the time we took

2282
02:02:27,699 --> 02:02:33,319
out the road that it took to get back to the pad site and

2283
02:02:33,319 --> 02:02:37,000
the resulting pipelines and everything else that was

2284
02:02:37,000 --> 02:02:39,000
associated with that,

2285
02:02:39,000 --> 02:02:43,310
one side ended up with 30 acres that they could develop,

2286
02:02:43,310 --> 02:02:46,000
and the other one was 22 acres.

2287
02:02:46,000 --> 02:02:48,000
So it was a dramatic reduction.

2288
02:02:48,000 --> 02:02:51,380
It's not just simply the pad site that you have to look at

2289
02:02:51,380 --> 02:02:55,470
because you've got to get your trucks to it, and you've got

2290
02:02:55,470 --> 02:02:59,000
to get the resulting gas away from it.

2291
02:02:59,000 --> 02:03:02,550
So there's a much more dramatic impact on it than just the

2292
02:03:02,550 --> 02:03:06,000
simple pad site that we've all been talking about.

2293
02:03:06,000 --> 02:03:09,640
So I'm in favor of the minimal setbacks that you can

2294
02:03:09,640 --> 02:03:13,479
possibly address so that we can have more commercial

2295
02:03:13,479 --> 02:03:17,869
development for vacant land tracks within the city and help

2296
02:03:17,869 --> 02:03:19,000
the taxes.

2297
02:03:19,000 --> 02:03:21,000
So I'll speak in favor of it.

2298
02:03:21,000 --> 02:03:22,000
Thank you.

2299
02:03:22,000 --> 02:03:24,000
Thank you very much.

2300
02:03:24,000 --> 02:03:32,000
Brandon Finley, and then on deck is Eliada Thomas.

2301
02:03:32,000 --> 02:03:33,000
My name is Brandon Finley.

2302
02:03:33,000 --> 02:03:34,000
I live at 806 Dent Street.

2303
02:03:34,000 --> 02:03:36,000
I'm opposed to this.

2304
02:03:36,000 --> 02:03:38,000
If you can't get it right, then don't make it worse.

2305
02:03:38,000 --> 02:03:40,329
We've done an excellent job of selective listening, and I

2306
02:03:40,329 --> 02:03:42,000
applaud the gall it takes to do that.

2307
02:03:42,000 --> 02:03:43,000
Hear this.

2308
02:03:43,000 --> 02:03:45,470
We voted for a ban, and when it was repealed, I don't

2309
02:03:45,470 --> 02:03:48,680
recall hearing anybody say, "Let's roll over and be a good

2310
02:03:48,680 --> 02:03:52,000
boy for the oil industry and do whatever they want."

2311
02:03:52,000 --> 02:03:54,350
I do recall saying that if it was repealed, we wanted the

2312
02:03:54,350 --> 02:03:56,949
toughest regulations in the state, and here I've watched as

2313
02:03:56,949 --> 02:03:58,000
you cower before HB 40,

2314
02:03:58,000 --> 02:04:00,779
which is set in place to eliminate patchwork regulations

2315
02:04:00,779 --> 02:04:03,819
like variances all over the place, and let's do 250 feet

2316
02:04:03,819 --> 02:04:07,000
here and 40 feet here and 1,000 feet there.

2317
02:04:07,000 --> 02:04:09,510
We see who oil and gas industries do ally is, and that's

2318
02:04:09,510 --> 02:04:12,329
developers and landowners, and it really makes for strange

2319
02:04:12,329 --> 02:04:14,470
bedfellows, all now worried about the one thing they care

2320
02:04:14,470 --> 02:04:15,000
about money.

2321
02:04:15,000 --> 02:04:16,000
But it's not about money.

2322
02:04:16,000 --> 02:04:18,000
It's about health, safety, and welfare.

2323
02:04:18,000 --> 02:04:21,050
That's why you have a drilling ordinance to protect people

2324
02:04:21,050 --> 02:04:23,000
with a setback in the first place.

2325
02:04:23,000 --> 02:04:25,529
If regulating the oil industry hurts developers or land

2326
02:04:25,529 --> 02:04:28,000
owners, let them take it up with the oil industry.

2327
02:04:28,000 --> 02:04:31,000
It's not your job to appease these big money interests.

2328
02:04:31,000 --> 02:04:33,000
You work for us.

2329
02:04:33,000 --> 02:04:35,479
We put you in these chairs, and you need to remember that

2330
02:04:35,479 --> 02:04:36,000
or not.

2331
02:04:36,000 --> 02:04:41,000
We'll be ready to remind you soon enough.

2332
02:04:41,000 --> 02:04:43,949
The following regulations, anything less than a thousand

2333
02:04:43,949 --> 02:04:47,000
foot universal setback on all gas wells is unacceptable.

2334
02:04:47,000 --> 02:04:49,300
Low price permits and a Swiss cheese set of regulations

2335
02:04:49,300 --> 02:04:51,750
that gives industry every chance to gain waivers they need

2336
02:04:51,750 --> 02:04:54,069
to drill anywhere they want as long as they put a pretty

2337
02:04:54,069 --> 02:04:56,000
little fence around it aren't acceptable.

2338
02:04:56,000 --> 02:04:58,899
Giving the gas well administrator the power to grant wai

2339
02:04:58,899 --> 02:05:02,000
vers, one person who's not elected is not acceptable.

2340
02:05:02,000 --> 02:05:04,250
Absolutely no protection for our air and water is

2341
02:05:04,250 --> 02:05:06,000
unacceptable, especially our water.

2342
02:05:06,000 --> 02:05:09,000
It's not even a protected use.

2343
02:05:09,000 --> 02:05:10,000
It should be.

2344
02:05:10,000 --> 02:05:11,000
Our drinking water should be protected.

2345
02:05:11,000 --> 02:05:15,000
Our surface water should be protected.

2346
02:05:15,000 --> 02:05:17,529
There should be some kind of monitoring going on before and

2347
02:05:17,529 --> 02:05:18,000
after.

2348
02:05:18,000 --> 02:05:20,000
I do believe there is a conflict of interest as well.

2349
02:05:20,000 --> 02:05:23,000
And if we don't have water, we don't have a city.

2350
02:05:23,000 --> 02:05:25,329
That city gets targeted by the state or the oil and gas

2351
02:05:25,329 --> 02:05:26,000
registry.

2352
02:05:26,000 --> 02:05:28,939
It's because a weak city government, not because of any of

2353
02:05:28,939 --> 02:05:30,000
our regulations.

2354
02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:32,899
This council is hard to watch work, hard to listen to, and

2355
02:05:32,899 --> 02:05:34,000
hard to read about.

2356
02:05:34,000 --> 02:05:37,000
2017 can't come soon enough.

2357
02:05:37,000 --> 02:05:39,000
Thank you.

2358
02:05:39,000 --> 02:05:40,000
Any questions?

2359
02:05:40,000 --> 02:05:41,000
I don't see any questions.

2360
02:05:41,000 --> 02:05:44,000
Thank you.

2361
02:05:44,000 --> 02:05:52,000
Ms. Tamez and then after that, Jess Hardgrave.

2362
02:05:52,000 --> 02:05:55,000
And I apologize if I didn't say your name correctly.

2363
02:05:55,000 --> 02:05:56,000
Alita Tamez.

2364
02:05:56,000 --> 02:05:59,000
Thank you.

2365
02:05:59,000 --> 02:06:01,000
And after you do your address, your time will start.

2366
02:06:01,000 --> 02:06:10,000
And could we have the overhead, please?

2367
02:06:10,000 --> 02:06:20,000
You can't see who wrote this, but that's George Orwell.

2368
02:06:20,000 --> 02:06:22,000
Thank you for your public service.

2369
02:06:22,000 --> 02:06:27,000
My name is Alita Tamez and I live at 1700 Willowood Street

2370
02:06:27,000 --> 02:06:30,000
in the lovely Dena neighborhood.

2371
02:06:30,000 --> 02:06:35,760
In an act of universal deceit, in a time of universal dece

2372
02:06:35,760 --> 02:06:41,000
it, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

2373
02:06:41,000 --> 02:06:46,779
But I will argue that we are no longer capable of telling

2374
02:06:46,779 --> 02:06:50,000
or of discerning the truth.

2375
02:06:50,000 --> 02:06:54,569
Many of our elected officials do only what benefits them

2376
02:06:54,569 --> 02:06:56,000
and big money.

2377
02:06:56,000 --> 02:07:00,000
The media is run by American corporations.

2378
02:07:00,000 --> 02:07:04,029
The admin of these corporations tell us a consuming

2379
02:07:04,029 --> 02:07:09,760
lifestyle of affluence is the only measure of a person's

2380
02:07:09,760 --> 02:07:11,000
success.

2381
02:07:11,000 --> 02:07:14,000
What is the truth?

2382
02:07:14,000 --> 02:07:18,659
The truth is something very different to many of us in here

2383
02:07:18,659 --> 02:07:19,000
.

2384
02:07:19,000 --> 02:07:24,000
There is the truth of the oil and gas industry.

2385
02:07:24,000 --> 02:07:28,000
The truth of the mineral rights owners.

2386
02:07:28,000 --> 02:07:31,000
The developers.

2387
02:07:31,000 --> 02:07:35,000
The Greg Johnson CEO of Veris Truth.

2388
02:07:35,000 --> 02:07:38,000
City Council truths.

2389
02:07:38,000 --> 02:07:42,000
Truths are so subjective.

2390
02:07:42,000 --> 02:07:46,000
Truths are not moral absolutes.

2391
02:07:46,000 --> 02:07:50,829
Moral absolutes are true regardless of whether anyone

2392
02:07:50,829 --> 02:07:53,000
believes them or not.

2393
02:07:53,000 --> 02:07:57,000
Filling your lungs with water will cause you to drown.

2394
02:07:57,000 --> 02:08:00,000
A moral absolute.

2395
02:08:00,000 --> 02:08:05,130
Fracking uses a toxic chemical cocktail known as fracking

2396
02:08:05,130 --> 02:08:06,000
fluid.

2397
02:08:06,000 --> 02:08:09,000
A moral absolute.

2398
02:08:09,000 --> 02:08:13,659
Fracking removes millions of gallons of fresh water from

2399
02:08:13,659 --> 02:08:17,720
the water cycle to be permanently contaminated by toxic

2400
02:08:17,720 --> 02:08:19,000
chemicals.

2401
02:08:19,000 --> 02:08:22,000
Moral absolute.

2402
02:08:22,000 --> 02:08:26,489
UTA study links groundwater contamination in the Barnett Sh

2403
02:08:26,489 --> 02:08:28,000
ale to fracking.

2404
02:08:28,000 --> 02:08:31,000
Moral absolute.

2405
02:08:31,000 --> 02:08:34,279
SMU study links earthquake activity in our region to fr

2406
02:08:34,279 --> 02:08:35,000
acking.

2407
02:08:35,000 --> 02:08:38,000
Moral absolute.

2408
02:08:38,000 --> 02:08:43,579
We know fracking in our neighborhoods and cities is morally

2409
02:08:43,579 --> 02:08:46,000
and absolutely wrong.

2410
02:08:46,000 --> 02:08:50,569
Knowing these moral absolutes, why would we not pass the

2411
02:08:50,569 --> 02:08:54,000
most stringent regulations possible?

2412
02:08:54,000 --> 02:08:58,029
Let's beef up our setbacks to the most restrictive possible

2413
02:08:58,029 --> 02:09:03,560
regulations aligning ourselves with Flower Mound and Dallas

2414
02:09:03,560 --> 02:09:04,000
.

2415
02:09:04,000 --> 02:09:07,000
Strength in numbers.

2416
02:09:07,000 --> 02:09:17,560
250 feet. Would any of you on this council choose to live

2417
02:09:17,560 --> 02:09:18,000
250 feet from a well?

2418
02:09:18,000 --> 02:09:21,760
If your answer is no, then stand up for the people of Dent

2419
02:09:21,760 --> 02:09:26,000
on who are counting on you at this critical moment.

2420
02:09:26,000 --> 02:09:31,920
If your answer is yes, I urge you to contact Greg Johnson

2421
02:09:31,920 --> 02:09:33,000
at Varus.

2422
02:09:33,000 --> 02:09:37,000
He has some real estate that he can sell you.

2423
02:09:37,000 --> 02:09:41,890
I think I know the answer here, but I'm going to ask it

2424
02:09:41,890 --> 02:09:43,000
anyway.

2425
02:09:43,000 --> 02:09:46,739
As city council members, as elected representatives of the

2426
02:09:46,739 --> 02:09:48,000
people of Denton,

2427
02:09:48,000 --> 02:09:52,859
will you side those who believe with those who believe they

2428
02:09:52,859 --> 02:09:58,000
are telling you the truth or with the moral absolute?

2429
02:09:58,000 --> 02:10:01,000
Thank you.

2430
02:10:01,000 --> 02:10:04,000
We have a question. Mr. Johnson.

2431
02:10:04,000 --> 02:10:06,000
Thank you, Mayor.

2432
02:10:06,000 --> 02:10:08,409
Well, we have a new narrative tonight and I have a question

2433
02:10:08,409 --> 02:10:09,000
for staff.

2434
02:10:09,000 --> 02:10:13,000
Can I ask a legal question now or during the public hearing

2435
02:10:13,000 --> 02:10:14,000
?

2436
02:10:14,000 --> 02:10:16,000
Because maybe we can bring some clarity.

2437
02:10:16,000 --> 02:10:21,000
So obviously there's a new theme, conflict of interest,

2438
02:10:21,000 --> 02:10:22,000
that was brought about last week.

2439
02:10:22,000 --> 02:10:25,000
And I've received some phone calls from a variety of folks.

2440
02:10:25,000 --> 02:10:29,409
I've spoken with anybody that was interested to call me and

2441
02:10:29,409 --> 02:10:32,000
have a conversation alleging,

2442
02:10:32,000 --> 02:10:35,279
making an allegation against me that I have a conflict of

2443
02:10:35,279 --> 02:10:39,000
interest, which I didn't believe I did, don't believe I do.

2444
02:10:39,000 --> 02:10:41,989
Asked the question before we ever started talking about

2445
02:10:41,989 --> 02:10:44,000
this topic, which was a year ago.

2446
02:10:44,000 --> 02:10:48,229
So, Madam City Attorney, I came to you and I asked you to

2447
02:10:48,229 --> 02:10:49,000
review it.

2448
02:10:49,000 --> 02:10:52,470
And I asked you to give me a written opinion of whether I

2449
02:10:52,470 --> 02:10:55,000
have a conflict of interest or not.

2450
02:10:55,000 --> 02:10:58,560
And given that now we have people willing to come up here

2451
02:10:58,560 --> 02:11:02,199
and make accusations of me by name, I'd like for you to

2452
02:11:02,199 --> 02:11:04,000
address that, please.

2453
02:11:04,000 --> 02:11:05,000
Certainly.

2454
02:11:05,000 --> 02:11:10,100
You did approach us and you did ask for an opinion with

2455
02:11:10,100 --> 02:11:16,000
regard to the conflict issues which arose,

2456
02:11:16,000 --> 02:11:19,000
which were presented by certain members of the public.

2457
02:11:19,000 --> 02:11:21,000
We looked at that at length.

2458
02:11:21,000 --> 02:11:24,000
We've thought about it, we've talked about it with you.

2459
02:11:24,000 --> 02:11:26,000
And we did issue an opinion.

2460
02:11:26,000 --> 02:11:30,000
It is our opinion that there is no conflict of interest

2461
02:11:30,000 --> 02:11:33,000
under the provisions of state law,

2462
02:11:33,000 --> 02:11:35,250
under the provisions of our charter, under the provision of

2463
02:11:35,250 --> 02:11:36,000
our ordinances.

2464
02:11:36,000 --> 02:11:38,000
So that is our opinion.

2465
02:11:38,000 --> 02:11:40,000
No conflict exists.

2466
02:11:40,000 --> 02:11:41,000
Thank you.

2467
02:11:41,000 --> 02:11:43,000
I might add that perception --

2468
02:11:43,000 --> 02:11:45,000
Well, he asked her a question.

2469
02:11:45,000 --> 02:11:47,000
But we do have another question.

2470
02:11:47,000 --> 02:11:48,000
Yes.

2471
02:11:48,000 --> 02:11:49,000
Mr. Hawkins.

2472
02:11:49,000 --> 02:11:51,550
I don't know if it's a question or not, but I just -- I

2473
02:11:51,550 --> 02:11:55,000
wanted to speak to Greg Johnson's character publicly, too.

2474
02:11:55,000 --> 02:11:58,000
And I've sat in lots of meetings.

2475
02:11:58,000 --> 02:12:00,000
He's a father.

2476
02:12:00,000 --> 02:12:03,000
He does participate in real estate in this town.

2477
02:12:03,000 --> 02:12:07,409
I've seen him turn down deals that weren't the right deals,

2478
02:12:07,409 --> 02:12:08,000
too.

2479
02:12:08,000 --> 02:12:11,590
And I don't think the accusations tonight are going to help

2480
02:12:11,590 --> 02:12:15,000
the proceedings in any way, good or bad, tonight.

2481
02:12:15,000 --> 02:12:18,510
And I just wanted to go on record with everybody watching

2482
02:12:18,510 --> 02:12:23,000
saying he has a very high standard of character,

2483
02:12:23,000 --> 02:12:27,000
very involved with the community in lots of different ways.

2484
02:12:27,000 --> 02:12:30,000
And it's getting frustrating to me, also.

2485
02:12:30,000 --> 02:12:31,000
Okay.

2486
02:12:31,000 --> 02:12:34,000
May I make a comment, please?

2487
02:12:34,000 --> 02:12:36,000
It needs to be short.

2488
02:12:36,000 --> 02:12:39,000
Perception is everything.

2489
02:12:39,000 --> 02:12:42,680
When you're a public servant, that trust that you build

2490
02:12:42,680 --> 02:12:46,000
with your community can be easily undermined.

2491
02:12:46,000 --> 02:12:47,000
Okay.

2492
02:12:47,000 --> 02:12:50,000
That's not the kind of conversation we need to be having.

2493
02:12:50,000 --> 02:12:51,000
All right.

2494
02:12:51,000 --> 02:12:52,000
Thank you.

2495
02:12:52,000 --> 02:12:53,000
Thank you.

2496
02:12:53,000 --> 02:12:57,189
Mr. Hardgrave will be up next, but we are going to take a

2497
02:12:57,189 --> 02:12:59,000
10-minute break.

2498
02:12:59,000 --> 02:13:04,979
And I will caution folks when we come back that we didn't

2499
02:13:04,979 --> 02:13:10,000
play the rules for regular comments.

2500
02:13:10,000 --> 02:13:13,000
I guess it's citizens' reports.

2501
02:13:13,000 --> 02:13:15,409
But we do ask that you keep your comments to the entire

2502
02:13:15,409 --> 02:13:19,000
council, not to call out individual council members,

2503
02:13:19,000 --> 02:13:24,000
and try to keep on the topic of the issue that's before us.

2504
02:13:24,000 --> 02:13:26,000
So we'll call a 10-minute break.

2505
02:13:26,000 --> 02:13:31,810
Let's try to all be back so that we can start promptly at 8

2506
02:13:31,810 --> 02:13:33,000
40.

2507
02:13:33,000 --> 02:13:35,000
We are back from a break.

2508
02:13:35,000 --> 02:13:37,000
It took 50 seconds longer than we had planned.

2509
02:13:37,000 --> 02:13:39,000
A couple of announcements.

2510
02:13:39,000 --> 02:13:42,560
We're going to accept blue cards for five more minutes,

2511
02:13:42,560 --> 02:13:44,000
five more minutes.

2512
02:13:44,000 --> 02:13:48,079
So if there's anyone that needs a blue card, staff is

2513
02:13:48,079 --> 02:13:51,000
distributing those at this time.

2514
02:13:51,000 --> 02:13:56,989
We are on item 5B, items for individual consideration,

2515
02:13:56,989 --> 02:13:59,000
consideration of adoption of an ordinance,

2516
02:13:59,000 --> 02:14:03,420
amending several chapters of our development code regarding

2517
02:14:03,420 --> 02:14:05,000
gas well drilling.

2518
02:14:05,000 --> 02:14:08,619
And I will say that if we have speakers that single out

2519
02:14:08,619 --> 02:14:12,000
council members, I will stop the comments.

2520
02:14:12,000 --> 02:14:15,420
And we'll have to end the comments for that speaker at that

2521
02:14:15,420 --> 02:14:16,000
time.

2522
02:14:16,000 --> 02:14:19,000
So please keep your remarks on topic.

2523
02:14:19,000 --> 02:14:23,010
I appreciate the majority of the remarks and the ability to

2524
02:14:23,010 --> 02:14:28,000
stay on the topic and not make personal comments.

2525
02:14:28,000 --> 02:14:32,000
So our next speaker is Jeff Hardgrave.

2526
02:14:32,000 --> 02:14:35,000
State your name, address, and your time will begin.

2527
02:14:35,000 --> 02:14:38,000
And next up will be Carol Self.

2528
02:14:38,000 --> 02:14:39,000
Thank you.

2529
02:14:39,000 --> 02:14:41,260
My name is Jeff Hardgrave, Vice President of Operations for

2530
02:14:41,260 --> 02:14:47,260
Atmos Pipeline Texas, 5420 LBJ Freeway, Dallas, Texas, 752

2531
02:14:47,260 --> 02:14:48,000
40.

2532
02:14:48,000 --> 02:14:52,460
And I am speaking in opposition of the ordinance as I const

2533
02:14:52,460 --> 02:14:58,760
rue it to apply to gas utility operations for natural gas

2534
02:14:58,760 --> 02:15:00,000
storage.

2535
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:03,439
Mayor Pro Tem Gregory, honorable council members, city

2536
02:15:03,439 --> 02:15:05,000
staff, and residents,

2537
02:15:05,000 --> 02:15:07,340
I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you tonight

2538
02:15:07,340 --> 02:15:10,380
regarding your proposed ordinance modification as it

2539
02:15:10,380 --> 02:15:14,159
impacts our natural gas storage facility located wholly in

2540
02:15:14,159 --> 02:15:17,000
the city of Denton at 5642 East McKinney Street.

2541
02:15:17,000 --> 02:15:21,000
Our natural gas facility has been in service since 1967,

2542
02:15:21,000 --> 02:15:25,000
operates under a permit from the Texas Railroad Commission.

2543
02:15:25,000 --> 02:15:28,390
Atmos Pipeline Texas is a gas utility as defined by the

2544
02:15:28,390 --> 02:15:30,000
Texas Utilities Code.

2545
02:15:30,000 --> 02:15:34,239
Our facility is comprised of some non-natural gas storage

2546
02:15:34,239 --> 02:15:37,000
wells and a compression facility.

2547
02:15:37,000 --> 02:15:41,409
We store gas in a unique depleted reservoir ideally suited

2548
02:15:41,409 --> 02:15:43,000
for such service.

2549
02:15:43,000 --> 02:15:46,239
Most importantly, this facility plays both critical and

2550
02:15:46,239 --> 02:15:49,000
strategic roles in energy needs for our area.

2551
02:15:49,000 --> 02:15:53,909
Perhaps you remember the frigid winter of 2011, February 2

2552
02:15:53,909 --> 02:15:57,079
nd to be exact, when the temperatures in Denton here reached

2553
02:15:57,079 --> 02:15:58,000
11 degrees.

2554
02:15:58,000 --> 02:16:01,640
During that time, the traditional production well supplies

2555
02:16:01,640 --> 02:16:05,210
across North Texas became frozen and gas production rapidly

2556
02:16:05,210 --> 02:16:06,000
declined.

2557
02:16:06,000 --> 02:16:09,449
Yet, because of our Lake Dallas storage facility, critical

2558
02:16:09,449 --> 02:16:12,460
energy supplies and deliveries for residential and

2559
02:16:12,460 --> 02:16:15,000
commercial customers continue to be made.

2560
02:16:15,000 --> 02:16:17,899
Atmos has sought opportunities to ensure the continued safe

2561
02:16:17,899 --> 02:16:20,000
and reliable operation of our facility.

2562
02:16:20,000 --> 02:16:23,859
We've invested some $44 million over the past five years in

2563
02:16:23,859 --> 02:16:25,000
improvements.

2564
02:16:25,000 --> 02:16:28,060
Further, we have sought to acquire property in and around

2565
02:16:28,060 --> 02:16:29,000
our facility.

2566
02:16:29,000 --> 02:16:32,239
This purchase has not been motivated by future expansion,

2567
02:16:32,239 --> 02:16:35,450
but to ensure that operations were sufficiently buffered

2568
02:16:35,450 --> 02:16:39,000
from the surrounding growth the city of Denton enjoys.

2569
02:16:39,000 --> 02:16:41,649
Atmos Energy respects the challenges the city faces in

2570
02:16:41,649 --> 02:16:44,000
regulation of oil and gas production wells.

2571
02:16:44,000 --> 02:16:47,350
However, the only resemblance of a typical natural gas

2572
02:16:47,350 --> 02:16:50,709
production oil and gas well to a storage well is that they

2573
02:16:50,709 --> 02:16:52,000
must be drilled.

2574
02:16:52,000 --> 02:16:55,000
I have a picture of one of our well sites here on the dais.

2575
02:16:55,000 --> 02:16:59,190
Once drilled, our wells occupy a very small footprint, 20

2576
02:16:59,190 --> 02:17:00,000
by 20.

2577
02:17:00,000 --> 02:17:03,000
In fact, here's a picture of one of these wells.

2578
02:17:03,000 --> 02:17:05,000
There are no storage tank batteries.

2579
02:17:05,000 --> 02:17:06,000
There's no treating equipment.

2580
02:17:06,000 --> 02:17:09,000
There's no truck traffic to haul away fluids.

2581
02:17:09,000 --> 02:17:12,000
It is the surface equipment that you see here.

2582
02:17:12,000 --> 02:17:16,000
These storage wells are designed for 50 to 75 years of life

2583
02:17:16,000 --> 02:17:20,200
because gas is moved out of the reservoir, but also into it

2584
02:17:20,200 --> 02:17:21,000
as well.

2585
02:17:21,000 --> 02:17:24,370
The benefit of a utility's natural gas storage is vital to

2586
02:17:24,370 --> 02:17:26,000
meeting energy demands.

2587
02:17:26,000 --> 02:17:29,309
As you consider the modifications to your ordinance, please

2588
02:17:29,309 --> 02:17:32,479
be mindful of our storage facility, an operation that is

2589
02:17:32,479 --> 02:17:35,000
unique to the North Texas area.

2590
02:17:35,000 --> 02:17:37,940
This facility has met the demands of customers for almost

2591
02:17:37,940 --> 02:17:40,989
five decades now, and we enjoy being a part of this

2592
02:17:40,989 --> 02:17:42,000
community.

2593
02:17:42,000 --> 02:17:45,659
The gas utility, which operates in the public interest, the

2594
02:17:45,659 --> 02:17:49,069
inability to retire and replace a storage well due to new

2595
02:17:49,069 --> 02:17:52,610
requirements could jeopardize energy security of our region

2596
02:17:52,610 --> 02:17:53,000
.

2597
02:17:53,000 --> 02:17:55,409
Thanks for your time, and I'd stand for questions if you

2598
02:17:55,409 --> 02:17:56,000
have any.

2599
02:17:56,000 --> 02:17:57,000
Well, we do have a question.

2600
02:17:57,000 --> 02:17:58,000
Thank you.

2601
02:17:58,000 --> 02:17:59,000
Council Member Rudden.

2602
02:17:59,000 --> 02:18:00,000
Thank you for your time and your comments.

2603
02:18:00,000 --> 02:18:04,500
I remember that winter well on February 6th of 2011, my now

2604
02:18:04,500 --> 02:18:08,120
four-year-old son was born, and we were driving across town

2605
02:18:08,120 --> 02:18:09,000
at Super Bowl night.

2606
02:18:09,000 --> 02:18:12,639
Overall, that icy conditions, my wife was cussing the whole

2607
02:18:12,639 --> 02:18:14,000
way to the hospital.

2608
02:18:14,000 --> 02:18:15,000
But anyways.

2609
02:18:15,000 --> 02:18:16,000
That was out of order.

2610
02:18:16,000 --> 02:18:18,000
I've heard.

2611
02:18:18,000 --> 02:18:20,989
I'm trying to ascertain what specifically with this

2612
02:18:20,989 --> 02:18:24,520
ordinance is concerning to you, and do you have specific

2613
02:18:24,520 --> 02:18:28,319
citations that point to something that you feel diminishes

2614
02:18:28,319 --> 02:18:32,000
your ability to continue what you're doing out there?

2615
02:18:32,000 --> 02:18:39,549
I actually do. For example, if you were to look at this

2616
02:18:39,549 --> 02:18:40,370
particular sample well site, we don't consider a pad site

2617
02:18:40,370 --> 02:18:41,000
essentially two or three acres.

2618
02:18:41,000 --> 02:18:45,000
It's have a relatively small unobtrusive footprint.

2619
02:18:45,000 --> 02:18:49,000
However, if you did measure from that site 1,000 feet,

2620
02:18:49,000 --> 02:18:53,000
since all these wells pre-exist the existing ordinance,

2621
02:18:53,000 --> 02:18:56,799
that we would have to consider a new site and a new gas

2622
02:18:56,799 --> 02:18:58,000
well site plan.

2623
02:18:58,000 --> 02:19:00,950
That 1,000 feet would put us clearly into adjacent

2624
02:19:00,950 --> 02:19:02,000
neighborhoods.

2625
02:19:02,000 --> 02:19:06,440
You mean 1,000 feet measured from site to site or 1,000

2626
02:19:06,440 --> 02:19:07,000
feet?

2627
02:19:07,000 --> 02:19:13,000
Well, essentially from the well site outward.

2628
02:19:13,000 --> 02:19:14,000
Gotcha.

2629
02:19:14,000 --> 02:19:14,000
Okay.

2630
02:19:14,000 --> 02:19:18,190
So it's a little bit unique, maybe from the examples that

2631
02:19:18,190 --> 02:19:21,000
maybe have been mentioned earlier.

2632
02:19:21,000 --> 02:19:23,440
Well, we might get a chance to ask some questions of staff

2633
02:19:23,440 --> 02:19:26,000
to try and clarify the provisions as it relates to this.

2634
02:19:26,000 --> 02:19:27,000
Thank you for your questions.

2635
02:19:27,000 --> 02:19:29,000
Yeah, I'll wait for staff to.

2636
02:19:29,000 --> 02:19:31,000
Thank you.

2637
02:19:31,000 --> 02:19:32,000
Thank you.

2638
02:19:32,000 --> 02:19:33,000
Thank you so much.

2639
02:19:33,000 --> 02:19:34,000
Mr. Rudden.

2640
02:19:34,000 --> 02:19:36,549
Well, I guess I'd ask it to be out of order to ask a couple

2641
02:19:36,549 --> 02:19:39,000
questions of staff to try and understand.

2642
02:19:39,000 --> 02:19:41,000
I think it would be in order.

2643
02:19:41,000 --> 02:19:45,190
And so ask and we'll figure out which staff person needs to

2644
02:19:45,190 --> 02:19:46,000
answer.

2645
02:19:46,000 --> 02:19:51,530
Well, I guess, Darren, you heard him and his concerns are,

2646
02:19:51,530 --> 02:19:57,340
is that represent a correct understanding of our ordinance

2647
02:19:57,340 --> 02:20:01,219
as it would relate to the type of activity they're doing

2648
02:20:01,219 --> 02:20:03,000
out at the Atmos site?

2649
02:20:03,000 --> 02:20:06,700
Well, it is a correct interpretation that says this draft

2650
02:20:06,700 --> 02:20:09,000
would include those types of wells.

2651
02:20:09,000 --> 02:20:12,219
And so if they did drill a new well, we would still require

2652
02:20:12,219 --> 02:20:13,000
a permit.

2653
02:20:13,000 --> 02:20:16,799
One of the provisions as far as the operations, I can

2654
02:20:16,799 --> 02:20:20,000
assume he's relating to notifications.

2655
02:20:20,000 --> 02:20:24,040
I know they're, I believe, across the street from a mobile

2656
02:20:24,040 --> 02:20:25,000
home park.

2657
02:20:25,000 --> 02:20:28,989
So providing notice in those examples, there isn't

2658
02:20:28,989 --> 02:20:33,000
necessarily a site that they're measuring from.

2659
02:20:33,000 --> 02:20:36,159
So I would assume his concern may be are they measuring

2660
02:20:36,159 --> 02:20:39,700
from their entire property, which you'll see again nine

2661
02:20:39,700 --> 02:20:42,000
specific well heads dispersed throughout a large acreage.

2662
02:20:42,000 --> 02:20:45,000
There isn't a site plan even.

2663
02:20:45,000 --> 02:20:48,290
So if it were measured from the existing site, they may not

2664
02:20:48,290 --> 02:20:50,000
meet that thousand foot.

2665
02:20:50,000 --> 02:20:52,000
I think we can work with him to clarify that.

2666
02:20:52,000 --> 02:20:55,000
But I would assume those are some of his concerns.

2667
02:20:55,000 --> 02:20:58,729
But as far as drafting any new requirements, we would look

2668
02:20:58,729 --> 02:21:01,000
for the operations to continue.

2669
02:21:01,000 --> 02:21:03,649
As far as our annual inspections, again, these would be

2670
02:21:03,649 --> 02:21:05,000
captured by definition.

2671
02:21:05,000 --> 02:21:08,000
So the applicability of the ordinance would be there.

2672
02:21:08,000 --> 02:21:12,409
Only if there were something new on the ground, though,

2673
02:21:12,409 --> 02:21:15,000
would we ask for a new site plan.

2674
02:21:15,000 --> 02:21:18,000
Okay. That's helpful a bit.

2675
02:21:18,000 --> 02:21:21,530
And I do remember recalled a couple years ago having an SUP

2676
02:21:21,530 --> 02:21:24,719
request for that particular property because it was

2677
02:21:24,719 --> 02:21:26,000
considered drilling.

2678
02:21:26,000 --> 02:21:28,899
And so we're treating it like a typical drilling operations

2679
02:21:28,899 --> 02:21:32,360
, although we understood at that time the difference of use

2680
02:21:32,360 --> 02:21:34,000
of that particular site.

2681
02:21:34,000 --> 02:21:35,000
It didn't involve fracking.

2682
02:21:35,000 --> 02:21:37,000
It didn't involve all these other sorts of things.

2683
02:21:37,000 --> 02:21:41,670
So I guess my request would be for Darren, you, and perhaps

2684
02:21:41,670 --> 02:21:44,069
maybe someone from the legal team at some point to huddle

2685
02:21:44,069 --> 02:21:49,000
with him to understand more clearly some of the issues so

2686
02:21:49,000 --> 02:21:52,059
that we can make sense of this so that either tonight or in

2687
02:21:52,059 --> 02:21:56,000
the future we can make adjustments accordingly.

2688
02:21:56,000 --> 02:21:57,000
Yes, sir.

2689
02:21:57,000 --> 02:21:58,000
Mr. Hawkins.

2690
02:21:58,000 --> 02:22:00,899
Yeah, that was my request too, just to get with legal and

2691
02:22:00,899 --> 02:22:03,440
somehow see if this can be penned in a way where they can

2692
02:22:03,440 --> 02:22:05,000
still continue to operate in the way that they are.

2693
02:22:05,000 --> 02:22:08,629
Because it seems like this is different from a hydraulic

2694
02:22:08,629 --> 02:22:10,000
fracturing site.

2695
02:22:10,000 --> 02:22:13,860
Yeah, just to be clear, everything that's out there was

2696
02:22:13,860 --> 02:22:16,000
considered in writing this.

2697
02:22:16,000 --> 02:22:19,000
So they can continue to operate as is.

2698
02:22:19,000 --> 02:22:21,000
They would be an existing site.

2699
02:22:21,000 --> 02:22:23,420
There won't be any applicability here unless something

2700
02:22:23,420 --> 02:22:24,000
changed.

2701
02:22:24,000 --> 02:22:26,000
So I definitely will do that.

2702
02:22:26,000 --> 02:22:30,020
But I just want to make sure that there isn't any thought

2703
02:22:30,020 --> 02:22:34,309
that because this ordinance, if it were to be adopted this

2704
02:22:34,309 --> 02:22:38,260
evening as presented, it shouldn't permit or I guess

2705
02:22:38,260 --> 02:22:43,000
produce any conflicts between their current operations,

2706
02:22:43,000 --> 02:22:45,000
what they're doing out there.

2707
02:22:45,000 --> 02:22:47,500
Again, we'll get with him, but I just want to make that

2708
02:22:47,500 --> 02:22:48,000
clear.

2709
02:22:48,000 --> 02:22:49,000
Thank you.

2710
02:22:49,000 --> 02:22:50,000
Yes, sir.

2711
02:22:50,000 --> 02:22:55,520
I think something that we're all acknowledging that maybe

2712
02:22:55,520 --> 02:23:00,340
not all of our audience is aware of, but the moratorium

2713
02:23:00,340 --> 02:23:04,000
runs out on gas well drilling in a couple of weeks.

2714
02:23:04,000 --> 02:23:09,000
And therefore, it runs out in a couple of weeks.

2715
02:23:09,000 --> 02:23:12,790
And we have not, we don't have anything posted to extend

2716
02:23:12,790 --> 02:23:17,000
the moratorium, so it's running out in a couple of weeks.

2717
02:23:17,000 --> 02:23:20,729
Which means that there's some action that probably needs to

2718
02:23:20,729 --> 02:23:25,870
be taken tonight, which also probably means as we discover

2719
02:23:25,870 --> 02:23:31,420
tonight or in the coming weeks, there will be revisions to

2720
02:23:31,420 --> 02:23:35,000
any ordinance, anything that's done.

2721
02:23:35,000 --> 02:23:40,000
This ordinance with amendments or not amendments.

2722
02:23:40,000 --> 02:23:45,389
There will be ongoing work that will have to be done and as

2723
02:23:45,389 --> 02:23:50,290
we discover unintended consequence that that are things

2724
02:23:50,290 --> 02:23:53,000
that are brought to counsel or to staff.

2725
02:23:53,000 --> 02:23:56,379
I am sure that that this is this will not be the last time

2726
02:23:56,379 --> 02:23:58,000
that we deal with this.

2727
02:23:58,000 --> 02:23:59,000
Thank you.

2728
02:23:59,000 --> 02:24:00,000
So we have Carol.

2729
02:24:00,000 --> 02:24:03,000
So, oh, Mr. Johnson, I'm sorry.

2730
02:24:03,000 --> 02:24:04,000
Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem Darren.

2731
02:24:04,000 --> 02:24:07,000
I have a question of you.

2732
02:24:07,000 --> 02:24:11,750
As it relates to Atmos's operation, would we even consider

2733
02:24:11,750 --> 02:24:13,000
that to be the same kind of operation?

2734
02:24:13,000 --> 02:24:15,959
Because it seems like they're putting gas into storage

2735
02:24:15,959 --> 02:24:17,000
tanks, right?

2736
02:24:17,000 --> 02:24:19,000
And then taking it back out.

2737
02:24:19,000 --> 02:24:20,000
They're not.

2738
02:24:20,000 --> 02:24:21,639
They're actually not even putting the gas into storage

2739
02:24:21,639 --> 02:24:22,000
tanks.

2740
02:24:22,000 --> 02:24:24,000
They use a formation.

2741
02:24:24,000 --> 02:24:27,899
There were some wells drilled, I think as Jeff pointed out,

2742
02:24:27,899 --> 02:24:31,000
in 1967 into the Strawn formation.

2743
02:24:31,000 --> 02:24:33,000
So different types of wells.

2744
02:24:33,000 --> 02:24:35,309
That was gas that migrated up from the Barnett and got

2745
02:24:35,309 --> 02:24:37,000
trapped in a different formation.

2746
02:24:37,000 --> 02:24:41,000
But those sands serve as a good reservoir for holding gas.

2747
02:24:41,000 --> 02:24:43,000
You can see they had been there for many years.

2748
02:24:43,000 --> 02:24:46,530
So Atmos is using that formation to actually store produced

2749
02:24:46,530 --> 02:24:47,000
gas.

2750
02:24:47,000 --> 02:24:49,000
They put it, inject it into the ground.

2751
02:24:49,000 --> 02:24:54,000
So these are wells used to store gas below the surface.

2752
02:24:54,000 --> 02:24:56,629
So as he showed in that picture, that is really the only

2753
02:24:56,629 --> 02:24:59,379
equipment other than the compressors that they have out

2754
02:24:59,379 --> 02:25:00,000
there.

2755
02:25:00,000 --> 02:25:01,000
Yeah, I mean, I said tanks.

2756
02:25:01,000 --> 02:25:02,000
I just meant storage.

2757
02:25:02,000 --> 02:25:03,000
Oh, yes, sir.

2758
02:25:03,000 --> 02:25:05,760
In other words, what I'm wondering here is does this

2759
02:25:05,760 --> 02:25:07,000
ordinance even apply?

2760
02:25:07,000 --> 02:25:13,000
Because they're not harvesting natural gas from the earth

2761
02:25:13,000 --> 02:25:16,459
through traditional drilling and fracking and all those

2762
02:25:16,459 --> 02:25:17,000
things.

2763
02:25:17,000 --> 02:25:19,000
It's a void area.

2764
02:25:19,000 --> 02:25:21,510
So I'm just wondering if maybe the easiest thing to do

2765
02:25:21,510 --> 02:25:25,459
would be to have some staff conversation to talk about

2766
02:25:25,459 --> 02:25:28,090
whether or not this even applies to that type of an

2767
02:25:28,090 --> 02:25:29,000
operation.

2768
02:25:29,000 --> 02:25:33,020
And once we determine that, if we need to make adjustments

2769
02:25:33,020 --> 02:25:36,969
or consider adjustments, we can do that because I don't

2770
02:25:36,969 --> 02:25:41,000
think there's any intention to stop that storage operation.

2771
02:25:41,000 --> 02:25:42,000
Thank you.

2772
02:25:42,000 --> 02:25:43,000
Thank you.

2773
02:25:43,000 --> 02:25:50,000
So Carol Sofe and then after that, Ed Sofe.

2774
02:25:50,000 --> 02:25:55,100
My name is Carol Sofe and I live at 1620 Victoria and I am

2775
02:25:55,100 --> 02:25:56,000
opposed.

2776
02:25:56,000 --> 02:25:58,000
We must be ready.

2777
02:25:58,000 --> 02:26:01,450
We are not crying wolf about protections from accidents

2778
02:26:01,450 --> 02:26:03,000
involving gas wells.

2779
02:26:03,000 --> 02:26:06,000
These accidents have happened.

2780
02:26:06,000 --> 02:26:09,000
They are fact, not hypothetical situations.

2781
02:26:09,000 --> 02:26:13,000
They could and will happen again.

2782
02:26:13,000 --> 02:26:17,190
The city must keep its current setbacks in place based on

2783
02:26:17,190 --> 02:26:21,120
the fact that we have had accidents that could have been

2784
02:26:21,120 --> 02:26:25,739
much worse if luck had not played a huge part in the

2785
02:26:25,739 --> 02:26:27,000
outcome.

2786
02:26:27,000 --> 02:26:32,000
We may not be so lucky the next time lightning strikes.

2787
02:26:32,000 --> 02:26:35,950
The question here tonight before us is, do you put the

2788
02:26:35,950 --> 02:26:39,889
bottom line of an industry first over the safety of the

2789
02:26:39,889 --> 02:26:41,000
citizens?

2790
02:26:41,000 --> 02:26:45,959
Please keep the 1200 foot setback in place with no reverse

2791
02:26:45,959 --> 02:26:47,000
setbacks.

2792
02:26:47,000 --> 02:26:48,000
Thank you.

2793
02:26:48,000 --> 02:26:49,000
Thank you.

2794
02:26:49,000 --> 02:27:02,000
Ed Sofe and after Mr. Doctor after Ed, Jennifer Lay.

2795
02:27:02,000 --> 02:27:03,000
Good evening.

2796
02:27:03,000 --> 02:27:04,000
My name is Ed Sofe.

2797
02:27:04,000 --> 02:27:12,000
I live at 1620 Victoria and I'm opposed to this as well.

2798
02:27:12,000 --> 02:27:16,190
In his remarks at the May 12th, 2015 City Council work

2799
02:27:16,190 --> 02:27:18,860
session about the gas well fire in the West Gate

2800
02:27:18,860 --> 02:27:25,000
neighborhood, Deputy Fire Chief Hedges stated that 330 feet

2801
02:27:25,000 --> 02:27:27,350
is the protective distance from an incident before a

2802
02:27:27,350 --> 02:27:29,000
neighborhood is evacuated.

2803
02:27:29,000 --> 02:27:33,569
In other words, homes, hospitals, churches, apartments,

2804
02:27:33,569 --> 02:27:37,879
assisted living centers, businesses and schools all would

2805
02:27:37,879 --> 02:27:42,110
be evacuated if they were closer than 330 feet to a gas

2806
02:27:42,110 --> 02:27:44,000
well production site.

2807
02:27:44,000 --> 02:27:47,540
In the ordinance revision before you, the reverse setback

2808
02:27:47,540 --> 02:27:52,100
for new drilling and production sites in both neighborhood

2809
02:27:52,100 --> 02:27:57,219
residential and regional mixed use center districts is 250

2810
02:27:57,219 --> 02:27:58,000
feet.

2811
02:27:58,000 --> 02:28:03,379
That's 80 feet less than the fire department's evacuation

2812
02:28:03,379 --> 02:28:06,000
distance of 330 feet.

2813
02:28:06,000 --> 02:28:09,829
I heard anecdotally that the firefighters could not get any

2814
02:28:09,829 --> 02:28:13,000
closer than 900 feet to a gas well fire.

2815
02:28:13,000 --> 02:28:18,000
So I wrote to the fire marshal for clarification.

2816
02:28:18,000 --> 02:28:22,250
And she wrote back to me, quote, various factors including

2817
02:28:22,250 --> 02:28:26,079
but not limited to the type of chemical involved volume

2818
02:28:26,079 --> 02:28:30,100
containment type of equipment or structure involved and

2819
02:28:30,100 --> 02:28:34,270
environmental conditions like wind can greatly impact the

2820
02:28:34,270 --> 02:28:39,000
nature and effect of an incident.

2821
02:28:39,000 --> 02:28:42,959
All of these factors could apply to a gas well production

2822
02:28:42,959 --> 02:28:47,200
site, so an assessment of the actual conditions on the site

2823
02:28:47,200 --> 02:28:51,170
at the time of the incident would ultimately determine a

2824
02:28:51,170 --> 02:28:53,000
perimeter distance.

2825
02:28:53,000 --> 02:28:57,250
In other words, they figured out the distance when they get

2826
02:28:57,250 --> 02:28:58,000
there.

2827
02:28:58,000 --> 02:29:01,799
Unlike the incident at Westgate where the well had

2828
02:29:01,799 --> 02:29:06,200
fortunately melted and the gas flow was diminished, the

2829
02:29:06,200 --> 02:29:10,309
time spent figuring out on site what to do and how to do it

2830
02:29:10,309 --> 02:29:14,000
could be crucial in saving lives and property.

2831
02:29:14,000 --> 02:29:17,659
Without the specialized equipment and expertise necessary

2832
02:29:17,659 --> 02:29:22,120
for offensive action at an incident, our first responders

2833
02:29:22,120 --> 02:29:25,000
can only act defensively.

2834
02:29:25,000 --> 02:29:29,909
The setbacks are their first line of defense, and they are

2835
02:29:29,909 --> 02:29:31,000
ours too.

2836
02:29:31,000 --> 02:29:36,100
Truly protective and precautionary distances cannot be

2837
02:29:36,100 --> 02:29:41,270
determined until the impacts have been determined by an un

2838
02:29:41,270 --> 02:29:45,799
biased and transparent risk assessment of a potential worst

2839
02:29:45,799 --> 02:29:49,989
case scenario at a gas well production site within the city

2840
02:29:49,989 --> 02:29:52,000
in any zoning category.

2841
02:29:52,000 --> 02:29:53,000
Thank you.

2842
02:29:53,000 --> 02:29:56,549
In my remaining time, I just want to say that it is

2843
02:29:56,549 --> 02:30:01,260
disappointing that there's no air monitoring involved, that

2844
02:30:01,260 --> 02:30:04,469
there are no electric engines instead of diesel, and we

2845
02:30:04,469 --> 02:30:09,000
know the horrible impact of diesel on our air quality.

2846
02:30:09,000 --> 02:30:13,290
And to correct Mr. Ireland, who said there was no need for

2847
02:30:13,290 --> 02:30:17,000
vapor recovery units because of we have dry gas.

2848
02:30:17,000 --> 02:30:20,229
Well, we might want to remind him that there were two tank

2849
02:30:20,229 --> 02:30:24,069
batteries out at Westgate, and they were condensate tanks.

2850
02:30:24,069 --> 02:30:26,000
Thank you.

2851
02:30:26,000 --> 02:30:35,000
Thank you, Jennifer Lane and after his lane, Ron seaford.

2852
02:30:35,000 --> 02:30:38,260
Oh, I'm sorry. Key lebriggs had a question I beg your

2853
02:30:38,260 --> 02:30:39,000
pardon.

2854
02:30:39,000 --> 02:30:50,950
Mr. So I just wanted to say thank you for sharing that

2855
02:30:50,950 --> 02:30:55,159
email and 300 feet that you mentioned has been a concern of

2856
02:30:55,159 --> 02:30:58,329
mine is a minimum as far as fire safety and then you

2857
02:30:58,329 --> 02:31:01,000
mentioned 330.

2858
02:31:01,000 --> 02:31:04,000
I watched the video a number of times of that work session.

2859
02:31:04,000 --> 02:31:10,459
And if you haven't, you should. And the she deputy chief

2860
02:31:10,459 --> 02:31:14,659
hedges distinctly said 330 feet and if he meant 300, that's

2861
02:31:14,659 --> 02:31:16,000
still 50 feet.

2862
02:31:16,000 --> 02:31:17,000
Right.

2863
02:31:17,000 --> 02:31:21,000
Off. Is that, is that chief still with us or.

2864
02:31:21,000 --> 02:31:24,549
No, we have a fire chief here. Can you come down and

2865
02:31:24,549 --> 02:31:29,200
explain to us the 300, the safety. Are you is that all the

2866
02:31:29,200 --> 02:31:31,000
questions. Yeah, thank you.

2867
02:31:31,000 --> 02:31:40,000
I do like to hear from him.

2868
02:31:40,000 --> 02:31:44,799
Mayor pro tam and council members, the D O T requirement is

2869
02:31:44,799 --> 02:31:49,399
we've discussed in previous sessions lists for a for a fl

2870
02:31:49,399 --> 02:31:54,190
ammable for a flammable gas lists a a isolation distance of

2871
02:31:54,190 --> 02:31:56,000
330 feet.

2872
02:31:56,000 --> 02:31:59,790
What we've identified in our discussions and what chief hed

2873
02:31:59,790 --> 02:32:03,989
ges has shared is that we effectively as an industry use 300

2874
02:32:03,989 --> 02:32:07,350
as a standard as a generalized measurement of for the

2875
02:32:07,350 --> 02:32:09,000
isolation distance.

2876
02:32:09,000 --> 02:32:12,399
And as we've indicated, the isolation distance is that

2877
02:32:12,399 --> 02:32:15,739
primary area where we make our size up an assessment and

2878
02:32:15,739 --> 02:32:19,450
then based on the conditions presented, whether we've got a

2879
02:32:19,450 --> 02:32:23,069
a liquefied release and we're talking about topography and

2880
02:32:23,069 --> 02:32:27,379
and downstream runoff or whether we've got a gaseous

2881
02:32:27,379 --> 02:32:28,000
release.

2882
02:32:28,000 --> 02:32:32,190
And we're talking about when direction and escape. That is

2883
02:32:32,190 --> 02:32:35,280
what will help us to identify the direction of an

2884
02:32:35,280 --> 02:32:39,000
evacuation zone and the size of an evacuation zone.

2885
02:32:39,000 --> 02:32:42,739
But we start with an isolation distance of 300 feet and

2886
02:32:42,739 --> 02:32:48,000
work from there. Thank you.

2887
02:32:48,000 --> 02:32:52,000
Jennifer lane and then Ron fever.

2888
02:32:52,000 --> 02:32:56,489
My name is Jennifer Lane. I live at 1526 Willowwood Street

2889
02:32:56,489 --> 02:32:58,000
in Denton, Texas.

2890
02:32:58,000 --> 02:33:02,430
Code 76205 property values have dropped here in Denton

2891
02:33:02,430 --> 02:33:04,000
while rising elsewhere.

2892
02:33:04,000 --> 02:33:06,670
I'm sure you know that from other sources. My own house

2893
02:33:06,670 --> 02:33:09,959
built by Anderson and Wilson, the architect of Houston's

2894
02:33:09,959 --> 02:33:13,760
Astrodome, has dropped approximately 20 K in the last year,

2895
02:33:13,760 --> 02:33:16,000
even though maintained and upgraded.

2896
02:33:16,000 --> 02:33:19,389
Eventually, as brought forward by Carol Sof and also by

2897
02:33:19,389 --> 02:33:23,000
others, there will be an explosion like Arlington's.

2898
02:33:23,000 --> 02:33:25,899
We were very lucky last April when the well caught on fire

2899
02:33:25,899 --> 02:33:28,000
because there was very little gas in it.

2900
02:33:28,000 --> 02:33:30,000
Struck by lightning.

2901
02:33:30,000 --> 02:33:33,739
It strikes me sort of at the last minute in terms of

2902
02:33:33,739 --> 02:33:35,000
catching up.

2903
02:33:35,000 --> 02:33:37,639
Mr. Groth has been given increased discretionary power to

2904
02:33:37,639 --> 02:33:39,000
approve setback waivers.

2905
02:33:39,000 --> 02:33:42,469
This kind of power, in my opinion, should be reserved for

2906
02:33:42,469 --> 02:33:44,000
elected officials only.

2907
02:33:44,000 --> 02:33:48,190
And HB 40 says local control results in a patchwork of

2908
02:33:48,190 --> 02:33:49,000
regulations.

2909
02:33:49,000 --> 02:33:53,059
How is weakening our ordinance as compared to say flower m

2910
02:33:53,059 --> 02:33:56,000
ounds not a patchwork also.

2911
02:33:56,000 --> 02:33:59,600
I've been away and I've been shocked to follow what has

2912
02:33:59,600 --> 02:34:02,000
gone on here since this past May.

2913
02:34:02,000 --> 02:34:05,180
Governance here puts counsel in the position of acting not

2914
02:34:05,180 --> 02:34:08,829
only as our elected officials, but as a Supreme Court over

2915
02:34:08,829 --> 02:34:12,000
the will of thousands of Denton citizens.

2916
02:34:12,000 --> 02:34:14,969
Since we banned fracking, our city officials and staff

2917
02:34:14,969 --> 02:34:18,620
should be proposing the strongest ordinance around, not the

2918
02:34:18,620 --> 02:34:20,000
weakest one.

2919
02:34:20,000 --> 02:34:23,000
Thank you.

2920
02:34:23,000 --> 02:34:25,000
Thank you very much.

2921
02:34:25,000 --> 02:34:34,000
On TV and then Cindy spoon.

2922
02:34:34,000 --> 02:34:38,000
Hello, my name is Ron. I live at 1400 Moran Drive.

2923
02:34:38,000 --> 02:34:41,370
You know, I also appreciate all the work you all have done

2924
02:34:41,370 --> 02:34:42,569
on this. I'm going to talk like an auctioneer because I

2925
02:34:42,569 --> 02:34:43,000
want to get through it all.

2926
02:34:43,000 --> 02:34:45,989
I can't say I'm in favor of it, but there's some things

2927
02:34:45,989 --> 02:34:48,000
that we could do a lot better on.

2928
02:34:48,000 --> 02:34:51,000
I echo everything that's been said about new well setbacks.

2929
02:34:51,000 --> 02:34:54,860
There's I think a strong case has been made that industry

2930
02:34:54,860 --> 02:34:58,000
disregards local control with HB 40.

2931
02:34:58,000 --> 02:35:00,420
They're going to go after you all no matter what it is and

2932
02:35:00,420 --> 02:35:03,000
the courts will decide what a reasonable setback is.

2933
02:35:03,000 --> 02:35:05,899
So let's stand by the people, the Democratic will of the

2934
02:35:05,899 --> 02:35:08,479
people and stand by our strong setbacks, make allies of

2935
02:35:08,479 --> 02:35:10,000
those that are taking the strongest line.

2936
02:35:10,000 --> 02:35:13,180
It's strategic. We can align ourselves with Dallas, Flower

2937
02:35:13,180 --> 02:35:14,000
Mound, etc.

2938
02:35:14,000 --> 02:35:18,000
1500 foot setbacks. Let's go for it.

2939
02:35:18,000 --> 02:35:22,190
There's no reason to incentivize industry. They have an ins

2940
02:35:22,190 --> 02:35:24,000
atiable lust for gas.

2941
02:35:24,000 --> 02:35:27,309
They do not need lower setbacks for industrial areas. They

2942
02:35:27,309 --> 02:35:30,110
will come for it there. They'll come for it here. They'll

2943
02:35:30,110 --> 02:35:31,000
come for it everywhere.

2944
02:35:31,000 --> 02:35:33,780
We should not lower setbacks for them under any

2945
02:35:33,780 --> 02:35:35,000
circumstances.

2946
02:35:35,000 --> 02:35:37,020
We just heard from the chief. It shouldn't be that low

2947
02:35:37,020 --> 02:35:39,000
regardless, but we don't need minimums.

2948
02:35:39,000 --> 02:35:42,290
Let's do away with minimums. If you offer a minimum, what

2949
02:35:42,290 --> 02:35:46,000
that says to me is the setback is just a jumping off point.

2950
02:35:46,000 --> 02:35:49,760
It's not a real setback. It's the real setback is the

2951
02:35:49,760 --> 02:35:52,000
minimum is what this says to me.

2952
02:35:52,000 --> 02:35:56,000
We want no minimums. Please just put a setback on there,

2953
02:35:56,000 --> 02:35:57,000
match it to the reverse,

2954
02:35:57,000 --> 02:36:01,420
and have a variance process that is reflective of

2955
02:36:01,420 --> 02:36:05,000
accountability so that you all can have a public hearing,

2956
02:36:05,000 --> 02:36:08,309
and we can take each case individually. We don't have to

2957
02:36:08,309 --> 02:36:11,000
aim for a minimum, but we can comment.

2958
02:36:11,000 --> 02:36:12,760
Let these folks, if they want to come into this town and fr

2959
02:36:12,760 --> 02:36:16,450
ack, let them have a public hearing and explain to the

2960
02:36:16,450 --> 02:36:18,000
people why they deserve a variance.

2961
02:36:18,000 --> 02:36:21,049
Let us confront them. It's like due process. They want to

2962
02:36:21,049 --> 02:36:23,000
come and poison us.

2963
02:36:23,000 --> 02:36:25,579
They have to come before us and convince us that they have

2964
02:36:25,579 --> 02:36:28,190
the right to do so that we should allow them closer in than

2965
02:36:28,190 --> 02:36:29,000
how we legislate.

2966
02:36:29,000 --> 02:36:32,479
It's fair. It's reasonable. It's due process. You all can

2967
02:36:32,479 --> 02:36:33,000
do that.

2968
02:36:33,000 --> 02:36:37,000
We don't want these folks who don't, we don't have direct

2969
02:36:37,000 --> 02:36:40,000
accountability to like the zoning board of adjustment or

2970
02:36:40,000 --> 02:36:45,000
like the gas well administrator to have so much power.

2971
02:36:45,000 --> 02:36:48,870
Let's see. Right. So on that gas well administrator should

2972
02:36:48,870 --> 02:36:51,000
not have this ability to reduce setbacks by 50%.

2973
02:36:51,000 --> 02:36:54,629
That's extraordinary for an unelected official. We should

2974
02:36:54,629 --> 02:36:56,000
do away with that.

2975
02:36:56,000 --> 02:36:59,209
I don't understand why these, if we're existing wells, you

2976
02:36:59,209 --> 02:37:02,350
all have this pad minimum that can be exempted to five

2977
02:37:02,350 --> 02:37:03,000
acres.

2978
02:37:03,000 --> 02:37:06,159
Let's just keep the minimum or the maximum at two. Don't

2979
02:37:06,159 --> 02:37:07,000
put it up to three, please.

2980
02:37:07,000 --> 02:37:09,450
Leave it at two. The existing wells can apply for their

2981
02:37:09,450 --> 02:37:12,920
five or their existing things. Don't give them more right

2982
02:37:12,920 --> 02:37:14,000
off the bat.

2983
02:37:14,000 --> 02:37:17,540
And notices. I echo that there's no reason we should have a

2984
02:37:17,540 --> 02:37:18,000
maximum.

2985
02:37:18,000 --> 02:37:20,559
After this already been approved, the notice that fracking

2986
02:37:20,559 --> 02:37:24,000
activities are going to start, two days is unreasonable.

2987
02:37:24,000 --> 02:37:26,950
If people want to save themselves and get away, they need a

2988
02:37:26,950 --> 02:37:28,000
month's notice.

2989
02:37:28,000 --> 02:37:30,149
Make, like if I want to move away, I need to give someone a

2990
02:37:30,149 --> 02:37:32,000
month's notice. That's just standard.

2991
02:37:32,000 --> 02:37:35,569
Make industry let people know 30 days we're going to come

2992
02:37:35,569 --> 02:37:39,000
and poison you and give them a chance to get out of there.

2993
02:37:39,000 --> 02:37:41,979
And then why cap it at 20 days notice? If industry wants to

2994
02:37:41,979 --> 02:37:45,000
give us two or three months notice, please just let them.

2995
02:37:45,000 --> 02:37:46,000
Thank you.

2996
02:37:46,000 --> 02:37:49,860
Thank you. We have no questions. Cindy spoon and after

2997
02:37:49,860 --> 02:37:54,000
Cindy Tara, Lynn Hunter.

2998
02:37:54,000 --> 02:38:00,700
Uh, Cindy's fair and 2210 Westwood. I wrote all of y'all my

2999
02:38:00,700 --> 02:38:03,000
concerns and my recommendations for amendments.

3000
02:38:03,000 --> 02:38:05,430
And I tried to post them on your Facebooks and tweet them

3001
02:38:05,430 --> 02:38:08,780
at you and all that good stuff. So hopefully you all read

3002
02:38:08,780 --> 02:38:10,000
them already.

3003
02:38:10,000 --> 02:38:13,059
Um, I think that the ordinance needs amendments and I hope

3004
02:38:13,059 --> 02:38:16,000
that y'all are going to be adding those amendments.

3005
02:38:16,000 --> 02:38:18,479
It's obviously not good as is if Devon energy and at

3006
02:38:18,479 --> 02:38:21,260
Ireland are so comfortable with it and think that it's so

3007
02:38:21,260 --> 02:38:22,000
workable.

3008
02:38:22,000 --> 02:38:24,719
Um, I went to a gas well forum this past weekend in Ar

3009
02:38:24,719 --> 02:38:27,379
lington with the railroad commission and the TCEQ

3010
02:38:27,379 --> 02:38:29,000
representatives there.

3011
02:38:29,000 --> 02:38:31,149
People from Arlington were asking them what they believed a

3012
02:38:31,149 --> 02:38:32,000
safe setback was.

3013
02:38:32,000 --> 02:38:35,159
The railroad commissioner said or the representative of the

3014
02:38:35,159 --> 02:38:38,000
railroad commission said we do not deal with that.

3015
02:38:38,000 --> 02:38:40,059
In fact, the direct quote was we don't take into

3016
02:38:40,059 --> 02:38:42,340
consideration where people live in relation to this

3017
02:38:42,340 --> 02:38:43,000
activity.

3018
02:38:43,000 --> 02:38:45,450
So I bring that up because y'all have to know that y'all

3019
02:38:45,450 --> 02:38:47,989
are our only line of defense. You are the only people that

3020
02:38:47,989 --> 02:38:49,000
are going to protect us.

3021
02:38:49,000 --> 02:38:53,409
Um, so please keep our setbacks 1200 foot at least no

3022
02:38:53,409 --> 02:38:55,000
reverse setbacks.

3023
02:38:55,000 --> 02:38:58,540
And then this 250 feet. I mean, God, we just heard from the

3024
02:38:58,540 --> 02:38:59,000
chief.

3025
02:38:59,000 --> 02:39:01,270
I'm hoping I want to believe that that's definitely going

3026
02:39:01,270 --> 02:39:04,000
to be an amendment tonight that nothing below 330 feet.

3027
02:39:04,000 --> 02:39:09,000
That's crazy. Um, industry is not going to be satisfied

3028
02:39:09,000 --> 02:39:09,000
with anything.

3029
02:39:09,000 --> 02:39:11,489
They're probably going to sue us. They're not going to sue

3030
02:39:11,489 --> 02:39:12,000
all of these towns.

3031
02:39:12,000 --> 02:39:15,000
So like other people said, strengthen numbers.

3032
02:39:15,000 --> 02:39:17,920
Um, and if they do see a Suez, at least they'll be forced

3033
02:39:17,920 --> 02:39:21,000
to define what commercially reasonable is in court.

3034
02:39:21,000 --> 02:39:25,549
Um, one of my biggest concerns where I would like to see an

3035
02:39:25,549 --> 02:39:29,579
amendment is in the zoning of the MPC and PD zones where

3036
02:39:29,579 --> 02:39:32,340
they are actually exempt from this ordinance is my

3037
02:39:32,340 --> 02:39:33,000
understanding.

3038
02:39:33,000 --> 02:39:34,969
Please correct me if that's not right. But my understanding

3039
02:39:34,969 --> 02:39:37,549
is that those zones are exempt from any ordinance that we

3040
02:39:37,549 --> 02:39:38,000
pass.

3041
02:39:38,000 --> 02:39:40,659
They get to write their own regulations of what a setback

3042
02:39:40,659 --> 02:39:42,000
is. It can be below the minimum.

3043
02:39:42,000 --> 02:39:45,500
I hope I'm wrong, but this is my reading of it. Um, so that

3044
02:39:45,500 --> 02:39:47,909
sounds like a huge loophole and also areas where we know fr

3045
02:39:47,909 --> 02:39:49,000
acking is coming in.

3046
02:39:49,000 --> 02:39:51,530
So that is absolutely unacceptable. That needs to be an

3047
02:39:51,530 --> 02:39:52,000
amendment.

3048
02:39:52,000 --> 02:39:54,680
Um, I have a concern about where industrial zones border

3049
02:39:54,680 --> 02:39:56,000
non-industrial zones.

3050
02:39:56,000 --> 02:39:58,729
Uh, then you, it seems like you can get your setback down

3051
02:39:58,729 --> 02:40:02,139
to 500 feet. That seems like unnecessarily burdening people

3052
02:40:02,139 --> 02:40:05,000
that might already live closer to industrial zones.

3053
02:40:05,000 --> 02:40:07,639
So why would we do that? Everyone should get their thousand

3054
02:40:07,639 --> 02:40:09,000
foot setback or whatever.

3055
02:40:09,000 --> 02:40:11,899
Um, I agree with the last speaker that we need to remove

3056
02:40:11,899 --> 02:40:14,989
the increase of production sites from two to three acres.

3057
02:40:14,989 --> 02:40:16,000
Why are we doing that?

3058
02:40:16,000 --> 02:40:18,250
I don't understand any positive changes that are incentiv

3059
02:40:18,250 --> 02:40:21,000
izing fracking. Like, you know that we don't want that.

3060
02:40:21,000 --> 02:40:24,930
Um, no variances. I don't understand the need for a

3061
02:40:24,930 --> 02:40:26,000
variance.

3062
02:40:26,000 --> 02:40:28,399
I would love to hear, like, articulate the legal

3063
02:40:28,399 --> 02:40:31,329
justification of why we need a variance process. Maybe I'm

3064
02:40:31,329 --> 02:40:32,000
just not aware.

3065
02:40:32,000 --> 02:40:35,389
Um, I think we should ban open surface pits. That's not

3066
02:40:35,389 --> 02:40:37,920
currently addressed in the ordinance, but it is surface

3067
02:40:37,920 --> 02:40:39,000
level activity.

3068
02:40:39,000 --> 02:40:42,620
So why? There is one close to where I live. Um, I think we

3069
02:40:42,620 --> 02:40:44,000
need vapor recovery units.

3070
02:40:44,000 --> 02:40:48,190
Uh, I think we do need air monitors if we cannot regulate,

3071
02:40:48,190 --> 02:40:52,000
uh, if we cannot add regulations to air emissions.

3072
02:40:52,000 --> 02:40:55,000
We deserve to know, at least we deserve that data, and we

3073
02:40:55,000 --> 02:40:58,000
deserve to know what we're being forced to breathe.

3074
02:40:58,000 --> 02:41:02,190
Like, why, why not? Um, I think their permit fees should be

3075
02:41:02,190 --> 02:41:03,000
increased.

3076
02:41:03,000 --> 02:41:05,530
500 dollars is nothing for an industry that makes a lot of

3077
02:41:05,530 --> 02:41:08,430
money. And definitely two days notice before fracking is

3078
02:41:08,430 --> 02:41:10,000
absolutely unacceptable.

3079
02:41:10,000 --> 02:41:12,260
I have to give two weeks notice before I can quit a job.

3080
02:41:12,260 --> 02:41:14,659
Surely an industry can give me two weeks notice before they

3081
02:41:14,659 --> 02:41:16,000
're coming to my community.

3082
02:41:16,000 --> 02:41:19,000
We have a question. Mr. Trogantz.

3083
02:41:19,000 --> 02:41:22,000
Well, thank you. Uh, it was more on the NPCs and the-

3084
02:41:22,000 --> 02:41:23,000
PDs.

3085
02:41:23,000 --> 02:41:26,100
Yeah. If we could have legal or Darren maybe explain kind

3086
02:41:26,100 --> 02:41:29,629
of moving forward, they definitely are going to have some,

3087
02:41:29,629 --> 02:41:31,000
um, setbacks and that sort of thing.

3088
02:41:31,000 --> 02:41:34,280
They're going to have to bring us a master plan to, uh,

3089
02:41:34,280 --> 02:41:37,000
city council in order for us to okay that.

3090
02:41:37,000 --> 02:41:40,139
Um, just if you could speak on the details of that, uh,

3091
02:41:40,139 --> 02:41:44,000
clear that one up, please. But thanks for bringing that up.

3092
02:41:44,000 --> 02:41:47,000
Are there any other questions before she walks away though?

3093
02:41:47,000 --> 02:41:48,000
No? Okay.

3094
02:41:48,000 --> 02:41:50,319
Uh, you had mentioned, uh, if legal or Darren could. I was

3095
02:41:50,319 --> 02:41:53,270
hoping you chose legal, but I'll be up here and, and

3096
02:41:53,270 --> 02:41:56,000
probably lean on you, uh, for any assistance.

3097
02:41:56,000 --> 02:41:59,430
But what, what we're proposing is not that there's a loop

3098
02:41:59,430 --> 02:42:02,690
hole for MPCs or PDs that you could go out and apply for an

3099
02:42:02,690 --> 02:42:05,000
MPC in lieu of any requirements.

3100
02:42:05,000 --> 02:42:07,899
What we're doing though is recognizing that we have master

3101
02:42:07,899 --> 02:42:10,479
plan communities and plan development districts that

3102
02:42:10,479 --> 02:42:12,000
already exist in the city.

3103
02:42:12,000 --> 02:42:15,850
Uh, Cole Ranch, Hunter Ranch, Robeson Ranch, Razor Ranch, a

3104
02:42:15,850 --> 02:42:19,079
lot of ranches I guess just love being, uh, specialty

3105
02:42:19,079 --> 02:42:20,000
district.

3106
02:42:20,000 --> 02:42:23,280
But those actually were approved with a set of zoning

3107
02:42:23,280 --> 02:42:27,069
regulations, uh, in some instances that address gas well

3108
02:42:27,069 --> 02:42:28,000
drilling.

3109
02:42:28,000 --> 02:42:32,059
So if they do, what we're saying in this proposal is that

3110
02:42:32,059 --> 02:42:36,440
anything that's out there would, uh, be authorized under

3111
02:42:36,440 --> 02:42:39,000
whatever it was that approved it.

3112
02:42:39,000 --> 02:42:43,190
And for Robeson Ranch as an example, I know that site has,

3113
02:42:43,190 --> 02:42:48,000
or that, uh, district has, uh, site specific authorization.

3114
02:42:48,000 --> 02:42:50,780
So they actually submit a plan that identifies by meets and

3115
02:42:50,780 --> 02:42:53,510
bounds description where each of these gas well drilling

3116
02:42:53,510 --> 02:42:55,000
production sites will be.

3117
02:42:55,000 --> 02:42:59,190
So in the event that that district already addresses a set

3118
02:42:59,190 --> 02:43:03,000
back, uh, what we're proposing is to keep that.

3119
02:43:03,000 --> 02:43:06,000
In the event, however, that there were any changes made to

3120
02:43:06,000 --> 02:43:08,670
not only the drilling and production, the gas well

3121
02:43:08,670 --> 02:43:14,000
development site plan, or the, uh, MPC or PD district,

3122
02:43:14,000 --> 02:43:17,739
there'd be an opportunity to review that zoning district

3123
02:43:17,739 --> 02:43:21,139
under the MPC or PD district and see where and if there

3124
02:43:21,139 --> 02:43:25,340
could be any modifications to make those requirements

3125
02:43:25,340 --> 02:43:29,950
comply with, uh, our, our new zoning chapter addressing gas

3126
02:43:29,950 --> 02:43:31,000
well drilling.

3127
02:43:31,000 --> 02:43:33,510
So it's, it's not, it's not something moving forward that

3128
02:43:33,510 --> 02:43:35,000
an MPC would get you out of this.

3129
02:43:35,000 --> 02:43:36,000
Right.

3130
02:43:36,000 --> 02:43:38,930
And there isn't a loophole, uh, for this type of zoning

3131
02:43:38,930 --> 02:43:41,000
outside of the gas well ordinance.

3132
02:43:41,000 --> 02:43:43,639
But it does recognize that these exist and in some

3133
02:43:43,639 --> 02:43:46,680
instances there's development and existing sites that

3134
02:43:46,680 --> 02:43:49,000
already have, uh, lesser setbacks.

3135
02:43:49,000 --> 02:43:51,569
Robeson Ranch, again, being an example, theirs is a hundred

3136
02:43:51,569 --> 02:43:52,000
feet.

3137
02:43:52,000 --> 02:43:53,000
Okay.

3138
02:43:53,000 --> 02:43:56,000
That there are sites a hundred feet away.

3139
02:43:56,000 --> 02:43:59,840
So if a new MPC comes, comes to Den here, they either have

3140
02:43:59,840 --> 02:44:03,680
to follow the new ordinance or they have to get an approval

3141
02:44:03,680 --> 02:44:05,000
by city council.

3142
02:44:05,000 --> 02:44:06,000
Well, actually both.

3143
02:44:06,000 --> 02:44:07,000
Okay.

3144
02:44:07,000 --> 02:44:10,549
Any new MPC or PD district, we would review it for the

3145
02:44:10,549 --> 02:44:15,000
compliance with this new ordinance or whatever gets passed.

3146
02:44:15,000 --> 02:44:18,790
Uh, what we would do then is take that zoning regulation

3147
02:44:18,790 --> 02:44:22,000
that the MPC and PD would be approved under.

3148
02:44:22,000 --> 02:44:24,149
It goes through a public hearing with the planning and

3149
02:44:24,149 --> 02:44:26,409
zoning commission and then comes to the city council for

3150
02:44:26,409 --> 02:44:27,000
approval.

3151
02:44:27,000 --> 02:44:28,000
Okay.

3152
02:44:28,000 --> 02:44:29,000
Thank you.

3153
02:44:29,000 --> 02:44:31,000
We have a question from Mr. Roden.

3154
02:44:31,000 --> 02:44:33,000
Uh, thank you, Mayor Pro Tem.

3155
02:44:33,000 --> 02:44:34,000
Thank you, Darren.

3156
02:44:34,000 --> 02:44:35,000
And, and thanks for those questions.

3157
02:44:35,000 --> 02:44:37,579
I did get the email and pinged on Facebook and I think

3158
02:44:37,579 --> 02:44:40,520
Twitter today, tried to respond to some of them, but I was

3159
02:44:40,520 --> 02:44:42,000
in meetings all morning.

3160
02:44:42,000 --> 02:44:44,500
Uh, but they were very thoughtful and showed that you spent

3161
02:44:44,500 --> 02:44:46,000
a lot of time with the ordinance.

3162
02:44:46,000 --> 02:44:48,000
So I, I appreciate that.

3163
02:44:48,000 --> 02:44:49,000
They're really good questions.

3164
02:44:49,000 --> 02:44:51,899
So I want to, I want to get a couple of these addressed, um

3165
02:44:51,899 --> 02:44:54,000
, for me or for you.

3166
02:44:54,000 --> 02:44:58,409
And there's been a couple comments about your ability,

3167
02:44:58,409 --> 02:45:02,979
Darren, to, uh, to, uh, allow for a variance in certain

3168
02:45:02,979 --> 02:45:04,000
occasions.

3169
02:45:04,000 --> 02:45:06,479
And I just want to clarify that because it's under some

3170
02:45:06,479 --> 02:45:10,569
pretty specific conditions, uh, trying to, again, incentiv

3171
02:45:10,569 --> 02:45:12,809
ize the type of behavior we're trying to do with the drill

3172
02:45:12,809 --> 02:45:16,000
ers, which is take some of these sites offline.

3173
02:45:16,000 --> 02:45:19,500
Can you spell out in what conditions you are authorized to

3174
02:45:19,500 --> 02:45:23,069
grant, uh, a waiver and what sort of, uh, a variance and

3175
02:45:23,069 --> 02:45:26,000
what sort of variance you're allowed to do?

3176
02:45:26,000 --> 02:45:27,000
Yeah.

3177
02:45:27,000 --> 02:45:29,989
Just to, to kind of clarify, there, there isn't necessarily

3178
02:45:29,989 --> 02:45:32,000
any discretion or authority granted.

3179
02:45:32,000 --> 02:45:35,459
Uh, I am the gas will administrator currently, but it's, it

3180
02:45:35,459 --> 02:45:38,739
's written as a position and that gas will administrator is

3181
02:45:38,739 --> 02:45:42,219
basically the, uh, appointee under the city manager, just

3182
02:45:42,219 --> 02:45:45,000
designating how some things get approved.

3183
02:45:45,000 --> 02:45:49,989
So that positions authority in this proposal would allow

3184
02:45:49,989 --> 02:45:55,290
for administrative variances in the event an operator owned

3185
02:45:55,290 --> 02:46:01,000
, uh, three drill sites in, in 120 acres of leased area.

3186
02:46:01,000 --> 02:46:04,520
What the proposal would give is the opportunity to

3187
02:46:04,520 --> 02:46:09,459
administratively reduce the 1000 foot setback as an example

3188
02:46:09,459 --> 02:46:13,479
in the event that operator were willing to restrict two of

3189
02:46:13,479 --> 02:46:19,000
the sites and only request, uh, new development on one.

3190
02:46:19,000 --> 02:46:20,549
And not only would they have to restrict it, that would be

3191
02:46:20,549 --> 02:46:21,000
recorded.

3192
02:46:21,000 --> 02:46:23,149
So there'd be a document that says there won't be any

3193
02:46:23,149 --> 02:46:24,000
future drilling.

3194
02:46:24,000 --> 02:46:28,579
So in that scenario there's a specific calculation that

3195
02:46:28,579 --> 02:46:34,100
allows that administrator the ability to reduce, uh, 50% if

3196
02:46:34,100 --> 02:46:37,000
it's 1000 feet for one, then you can go down to 750.

3197
02:46:37,000 --> 02:46:40,479
And if both sites were restricted, you can go down to 500

3198
02:46:40,479 --> 02:46:41,000
feet.

3199
02:46:41,000 --> 02:46:44,780
So what that gives us is instead of allowing the gas well

3200
02:46:44,780 --> 02:46:48,750
operator the opportunity to go seek waivers for all three

3201
02:46:48,750 --> 02:46:52,700
sites or go to the zoning board of adjustment for all three

3202
02:46:52,700 --> 02:46:56,030
sites is to avoid that process because you may not be able

3203
02:46:56,030 --> 02:46:58,000
to find all the property owners.

3204
02:46:58,000 --> 02:47:01,250
Uh, you may have some public hearing notifications and, and

3205
02:47:01,250 --> 02:47:04,000
timelines with the zoning board of adjustment.

3206
02:47:04,000 --> 02:47:06,690
So in the event that you're willing to self restrict, we

3207
02:47:06,690 --> 02:47:09,379
have an administrative process that just happens to go

3208
02:47:09,379 --> 02:47:11,000
through the administrator.

3209
02:47:11,000 --> 02:47:13,899
Good. And the end result would be less drilling sites, less

3210
02:47:13,899 --> 02:47:15,000
impact on surrounding uses.

3211
02:47:15,000 --> 02:47:19,000
There would be fewer new wells on multiple sites. Yes, sir.

3212
02:47:19,000 --> 02:47:22,379
And so on this point too, the question of the industrial z

3213
02:47:22,379 --> 02:47:25,799
oned area and why are we, why are we incentivizing drill,

3214
02:47:25,799 --> 02:47:28,000
drilling activity on those sites?

3215
02:47:28,000 --> 02:47:32,430
The idea is, and I'm asking this in a question, the idea is

3216
02:47:32,430 --> 02:47:37,299
Darren, right? That we all agree that this is most properly

3217
02:47:37,299 --> 02:47:39,000
an industrial use.

3218
02:47:39,000 --> 02:47:42,010
It just so happens that Bay State Law, it can happen in

3219
02:47:42,010 --> 02:47:44,000
across all zoning categories.

3220
02:47:44,000 --> 02:47:46,909
And so what we're trying to do is to say, I'm asking you if

3221
02:47:46,909 --> 02:47:51,469
this is correct, that we would like as much as possible for

3222
02:47:51,469 --> 02:47:55,340
this activity to happen in industrial zoned areas where

3223
02:47:55,340 --> 02:47:57,000
everyone in the city understands that's where appropriately

3224
02:47:57,000 --> 02:48:01,190
industrial use activity should go. Is that correct? Is that

3225
02:48:01,190 --> 02:48:03,000
the whole thrust of lowering the setbacks?

3226
02:48:03,000 --> 02:48:07,000
One word answer. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

3227
02:48:07,000 --> 02:48:15,000
Ms. Wasney. So to confirm master plan community, MPC, PD

3228
02:48:15,000 --> 02:48:21,069
plan community, the rules right now, if they were approved,

3229
02:48:21,069 --> 02:48:23,000
they have their own set of rules.

3230
02:48:23,000 --> 02:48:30,200
Going back to 01, 06, and 09 for three large communities

3231
02:48:30,200 --> 02:48:36,000
encompassing 8,000 acres in southwest end.

3232
02:48:36,000 --> 02:48:39,770
So when you see that little asterisk, you know, if they

3233
02:48:39,770 --> 02:48:44,559
were approved, the only way they would have to come back

3234
02:48:44,559 --> 02:48:49,709
online and conform with what we're looking at tonight would

3235
02:48:49,709 --> 02:48:52,000
be as if they came in and asked for a change.

3236
02:48:52,000 --> 02:48:58,270
To that MPC. In which case, now, to get approval, they

3237
02:48:58,270 --> 02:49:03,000
would have to come into line with what we have.

3238
02:49:03,000 --> 02:49:08,190
If new master plan communities, and again, these are our

3239
02:49:08,190 --> 02:49:13,879
big, big, big communities, new, new master plan communities

3240
02:49:13,879 --> 02:49:17,000
would have to conform to our rules.

3241
02:49:17,000 --> 02:49:20,959
But I just want, you know, everyone to know that what has

3242
02:49:20,959 --> 02:49:26,889
been approved in the past, it's set. So unless they come in

3243
02:49:26,889 --> 02:49:31,000
, unless they initiate a change, it's set.

3244
02:49:31,000 --> 02:49:34,500
And her question is, is that an accurate understanding? Yes

3245
02:49:34,500 --> 02:49:38,000
. Thank you. All right.

3246
02:49:38,000 --> 02:49:51,770
Terri Lynn Hunter. And then after Terri Lynn Hunter, Jody,

3247
02:49:51,770 --> 02:49:53,950
and I'm going to even though you wrote your name phon

3248
02:49:53,950 --> 02:49:56,000
etically, is Mert, I believe that is so.

3249
02:49:56,000 --> 02:49:59,370
My name is Terri Lynn Hunter. I live at 918 North Bell Dent

3250
02:49:59,370 --> 02:50:04,000
on, Texas. I'm opposed to aspects of this new ordinance.

3251
02:50:04,000 --> 02:50:07,090
I'm glad to hear that renters will be notified when fr

3252
02:50:07,090 --> 02:50:09,000
acking activity will occur.

3253
02:50:09,000 --> 02:50:12,040
But this does not solve the greater problem of who is

3254
02:50:12,040 --> 02:50:14,000
allowed to grant variances.

3255
02:50:14,000 --> 02:50:17,389
So I want to address that. And I hope I'm wrong in my

3256
02:50:17,389 --> 02:50:20,000
understanding of this. I just want to say that.

3257
02:50:20,000 --> 02:50:24,000
For granting variances, the ordinance says that waivers are

3258
02:50:24,000 --> 02:50:27,000
needed from 100% of protected uses.

3259
02:50:27,000 --> 02:50:30,629
But we're still only talking about the owners. Owners who

3260
02:50:30,629 --> 02:50:33,000
could live out of town, out of state.

3261
02:50:33,000 --> 02:50:35,899
Despite some of the notification improvements, the overall

3262
02:50:35,899 --> 02:50:39,719
sense that I get from reading this ordinance is a priority

3263
02:50:39,719 --> 02:50:43,200
list with industry still at the top, then developers, then

3264
02:50:43,200 --> 02:50:46,430
property owners, and then way down below is renters and the

3265
02:50:46,430 --> 02:50:49,000
health and safety of all of our residents.

3266
02:50:49,000 --> 02:50:52,719
Our vote showed that we wanted health and safety at the top

3267
02:50:52,719 --> 02:50:53,000
.

3268
02:50:53,000 --> 02:50:55,959
There are ways in this ordinance that I see lives are being

3269
02:50:55,959 --> 02:50:58,000
prioritized based on what they own.

3270
02:50:58,000 --> 02:51:01,860
I emailed this to you all earlier, but I just want to share

3271
02:51:01,860 --> 02:51:04,000
this with the public as well.

3272
02:51:04,000 --> 02:51:08,309
If you can see this chart here. Is there a way that we can

3273
02:51:08,309 --> 02:51:11,000
see that? Thanks.

3274
02:51:11,000 --> 02:51:14,049
Okay, so I just want to, for us to get an idea of how many

3275
02:51:14,049 --> 02:51:17,000
people we're talking about that rent in Denton.

3276
02:51:17,000 --> 02:51:22,000
So these are the demographics. And 48% of the overall

3277
02:51:22,000 --> 02:51:26,000
housing units in Denton are occupied by renters.

3278
02:51:26,000 --> 02:51:28,899
That is higher than the percentage of housing units that

3279
02:51:28,899 --> 02:51:32,000
are owner occupied. That's my understanding.

3280
02:51:32,000 --> 02:51:37,860
Out of the occupied housing units, 52.3% are occupied by

3281
02:51:37,860 --> 02:51:39,000
renters.

3282
02:51:39,000 --> 02:51:43,500
So this is a ton of people that we're talking about that

3283
02:51:43,500 --> 02:51:46,000
don't have any say in this.

3284
02:51:46,000 --> 02:51:49,209
Choices about whether or not this portion of the people of

3285
02:51:49,209 --> 02:51:52,219
Denton will be in close proximity to a gas well with the

3286
02:51:52,219 --> 02:51:55,760
potential for blowouts, fires, and the assured exposure to

3287
02:51:55,760 --> 02:51:59,000
ongoing emissions will not be made by these people.

3288
02:51:59,000 --> 02:52:02,170
And with notification, as Councilman Gregory's question

3289
02:52:02,170 --> 02:52:05,889
pointed out, these people could receive as little as two

3290
02:52:05,889 --> 02:52:07,000
days notice.

3291
02:52:07,000 --> 02:52:10,680
They're actually prevented from being notified any sooner

3292
02:52:10,680 --> 02:52:12,000
than 20 days.

3293
02:52:12,000 --> 02:52:15,280
So I would be very entertained to hear the justification

3294
02:52:15,280 --> 02:52:18,000
for not telling people as soon as possible.

3295
02:52:18,000 --> 02:52:21,000
There has been a lot of talk about people's choices here.

3296
02:52:21,000 --> 02:52:23,899
The argument has been made that if someone wants to live

3297
02:52:23,899 --> 02:52:26,000
near fracking, that is their choice.

3298
02:52:26,000 --> 02:52:29,200
I do not believe that this situation truly paints a picture

3299
02:52:29,200 --> 02:52:32,000
of people being able to make informed choices.

3300
02:52:32,000 --> 02:52:34,899
I know that it would certainly not be a reasonable amount

3301
02:52:34,899 --> 02:52:37,469
of time for my family and I to make financial and log

3302
02:52:37,469 --> 02:52:40,229
istical plans if we wanted to choose to leave during fr

3303
02:52:40,229 --> 02:52:41,000
acking.

3304
02:52:41,000 --> 02:52:44,250
I am calling on you to eliminate the potential for var

3305
02:52:44,250 --> 02:52:45,000
iances.

3306
02:52:45,000 --> 02:52:48,430
The industry will always go for a variance if we allow for

3307
02:52:48,430 --> 02:52:49,000
them.

3308
02:52:49,000 --> 02:52:51,000
They will always aim for the minimum setback.

3309
02:52:51,000 --> 02:52:54,959
We have the responsibility to create an ordinance that

3310
02:52:54,959 --> 02:52:59,270
protects all and informs all residents, not just those who

3311
02:52:59,270 --> 02:53:01,000
own certain things.

3312
02:53:01,000 --> 02:53:04,000
We have questions. Mr. Rhoade?

3313
02:53:04,000 --> 02:53:08,459
>> Thank you, Terri Lynn, for your comments and the concern

3314
02:53:08,459 --> 02:53:12,000
for renters because I think it's a good one.

3315
02:53:12,000 --> 02:53:15,440
I think I'm going to ask a question of our legal team

3316
02:53:15,440 --> 02:53:18,680
because I raised it, others have raised it as we're

3317
02:53:18,680 --> 02:53:21,000
struggling with this particular issue.

3318
02:53:21,000 --> 02:53:23,979
As it relates to notification, I think we're able to kind

3319
02:53:23,979 --> 02:53:27,000
of get that to anyone living in a particular address.

3320
02:53:27,000 --> 02:53:31,879
The question of variances as to whether or not a renter of

3321
02:53:31,879 --> 02:53:36,559
a property can waive certain rights on behalf of the

3322
02:53:36,559 --> 02:53:40,940
property owner, is that something that a city can allow

3323
02:53:40,940 --> 02:53:43,000
according to state law?

3324
02:53:43,000 --> 02:53:44,700
>> Well, and let me clarify, that's not what I'm calling

3325
02:53:44,700 --> 02:53:45,000
for.

3326
02:53:45,000 --> 02:53:46,000
>> Okay.

3327
02:53:46,000 --> 02:53:50,040
>> Yeah, I'm calling for the ability for the property owner

3328
02:53:50,040 --> 02:53:51,000
to do that.

3329
02:53:51,000 --> 02:53:54,059
I don't want the ability for variances to be made for the

3330
02:53:54,059 --> 02:53:57,190
renters, nor do I want the renters to be able to make that

3331
02:53:57,190 --> 02:53:59,000
choice for future renters.

3332
02:53:59,000 --> 02:54:00,000
Does that make sense?

3333
02:54:00,000 --> 02:54:02,000
>> Right, but I just want to address the question as to

3334
02:54:02,000 --> 02:54:06,569
whether or not a renter, a current renter, could even waive

3335
02:54:06,569 --> 02:54:12,000
the rights on behalf of a property that they don't own.

3336
02:54:12,000 --> 02:54:16,469
>> Right, this has been a topic of some thought and some

3337
02:54:16,469 --> 02:54:21,149
discussion among the staff and also between the staff and

3338
02:54:21,149 --> 02:54:23,000
the city council.

3339
02:54:23,000 --> 02:54:27,319
The concern there is really one of standing, as we talked

3340
02:54:27,319 --> 02:54:32,950
about, and that is who would have the standing to affect

3341
02:54:32,950 --> 02:54:38,000
those waivers on behalf of the property itself.

3342
02:54:38,000 --> 02:54:41,899
And as we've thought about it and as we've looked at it, we

3343
02:54:41,899 --> 02:54:45,850
believe that it would need to be the property owner and not

3344
02:54:45,850 --> 02:54:47,000
the renter.

3345
02:54:47,000 --> 02:54:49,899
The renter could not affect the waiver on behalf of the

3346
02:54:49,899 --> 02:54:51,000
property owner.

3347
02:54:51,000 --> 02:54:54,530
And so we really don't see another way to craft the

3348
02:54:54,530 --> 02:54:59,000
ordinance in order to address that issue and that problem.

3349
02:54:59,000 --> 02:55:02,610
So we've done the best we could in drafting the ordinance

3350
02:55:02,610 --> 02:55:05,000
around that concern of standing.

3351
02:55:05,000 --> 02:55:07,000
>> Mr. Johnson.

3352
02:55:07,000 --> 02:55:08,000
>> Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem.

3353
02:55:08,000 --> 02:55:11,610
>> Terri Lynn, you championed the cause of the renter or

3354
02:55:11,610 --> 02:55:15,000
the tenant very early on and I think, and I appreciate that

3355
02:55:15,000 --> 02:55:17,000
because I think because of that,

3356
02:55:17,000 --> 02:55:20,750
we have made modifications to the notice provisions versus

3357
02:55:20,750 --> 02:55:23,000
what was originally thought of.

3358
02:55:23,000 --> 02:55:29,000
So the notices will now go to the current resident.

3359
02:55:29,000 --> 02:55:32,000
>> I do appreciate that.

3360
02:55:32,000 --> 02:55:35,870
Is there a way that we can increase it from two days or

3361
02:55:35,870 --> 02:55:39,319
take off the thing that says that they're not allowed to be

3362
02:55:39,319 --> 02:55:42,000
notified more than 20 days in advance?

3363
02:55:42,000 --> 02:55:46,000
I'd just love to hear some justification for that.

3364
02:55:46,000 --> 02:55:50,829
>> I would think that we may see, I don't know, I cannot

3365
02:55:50,829 --> 02:55:55,079
predict the future, except that we need to be done by

3366
02:55:55,079 --> 02:55:56,000
midnight.

3367
02:55:56,000 --> 02:56:02,000
But there may be an amendment on the notification timeline.

3368
02:56:02,000 --> 02:56:06,959
I would imagine that having been around a while that when

3369
02:56:06,959 --> 02:56:12,790
you send a notification out way in advance, sometimes

3370
02:56:12,790 --> 02:56:17,000
people, because it's so far in advance, they forget.

3371
02:56:17,000 --> 02:56:20,940
So I think that there's probably some optimal times, but

3372
02:56:20,940 --> 02:56:24,879
there may be a motion for an amendment when we consider the

3373
02:56:24,879 --> 02:56:26,000
ordinance.

3374
02:56:26,000 --> 02:56:27,000
>> Sir, are multiple notifications?

3375
02:56:27,000 --> 02:56:28,000
>> No, I'd love to ask my question.

3376
02:56:28,000 --> 02:56:29,000
>> Okay.

3377
02:56:29,000 --> 02:56:31,000
>> I was just wanting to give you a compliment before I ask

3378
02:56:31,000 --> 02:56:33,000
your question because I'm curious about this one.

3379
02:56:33,000 --> 02:56:36,770
You said you believe that operators will always ask for a

3380
02:56:36,770 --> 02:56:40,000
variance to get closer to the protected use.

3381
02:56:40,000 --> 02:56:43,000
I'm curious because I don't know the answer.

3382
02:56:43,000 --> 02:56:47,000
Why do you think they would have a desire to get closer?

3383
02:56:47,000 --> 02:56:49,000
Because I don't know how they think, right?

3384
02:56:49,000 --> 02:56:52,969
But if I was one, I would want to not draw any attention to

3385
02:56:52,969 --> 02:56:57,040
myself, get my minerals and not incite anybody if I could

3386
02:56:57,040 --> 02:56:58,000
help it.

3387
02:56:58,000 --> 02:57:01,260
So I'm curious, why would you think they would want to

3388
02:57:01,260 --> 02:57:04,000
always get closer if they didn't need to?

3389
02:57:04,000 --> 02:57:05,000
>> Sure.

3390
02:57:05,000 --> 02:57:07,899
I think that because I drive through Denton every day and I

3391
02:57:07,899 --> 02:57:10,000
see the layout of our neighborhoods.

3392
02:57:10,000 --> 02:57:13,129
I see the vintage neighborhood where the neighborhood sign

3393
02:57:13,129 --> 02:57:15,000
shares a wall with the frac wall.

3394
02:57:15,000 --> 02:57:17,899
It seems like wherever there's a profit to be made, they're

3395
02:57:17,899 --> 02:57:19,000
going to go for it.

3396
02:57:19,000 --> 02:57:23,319
And I just agree that there's no reason to set one standard

3397
02:57:23,319 --> 02:57:26,000
and then create a minimum over here.

3398
02:57:26,000 --> 02:57:30,319
And the variance process is just to go through a non-elect

3399
02:57:30,319 --> 02:57:34,000
ed board or to go through all the property owners or to go

3400
02:57:34,000 --> 02:57:36,000
through Mr. Groth here.

3401
02:57:36,000 --> 02:57:39,290
Those don't seem like fair processes to grant those var

3402
02:57:39,290 --> 02:57:40,000
iances.

3403
02:57:40,000 --> 02:57:43,000
So I'd like to see the variance option eliminated.

3404
02:57:43,000 --> 02:57:45,000
>> Okay. Thank you.

3405
02:57:45,000 --> 02:57:46,000
>> Thank you.

3406
02:57:46,000 --> 02:57:48,000
>> Thanks, y'all.

3407
02:57:48,000 --> 02:57:53,000
>> Jody Ismert and then Morgan Larson.

3408
02:57:53,000 --> 02:57:55,000
So was that close?

3409
02:57:55,000 --> 02:57:56,000
>> You got it.

3410
02:57:56,000 --> 02:57:57,000
>> Wow.

3411
02:57:57,000 --> 02:57:58,000
>> Thank you.

3412
02:57:58,000 --> 02:58:04,000
Jody Ismert, 819 Anna Street, Denton, Texas.

3413
02:58:04,000 --> 02:58:06,760
And I just wanted to say that last week I stood before you

3414
02:58:06,760 --> 02:58:09,000
and spoke about two scientific studies.

3415
02:58:09,000 --> 02:58:15,000
I did bring a visual today showing these studies this week.

3416
02:58:15,000 --> 02:58:21,540
It's quite a big visual, so you may have to pan out a

3417
02:58:21,540 --> 02:58:23,000
little.

3418
02:58:23,000 --> 02:58:25,610
Anyhow, I'd like to go ahead and read some quotes off of

3419
02:58:25,610 --> 02:58:27,920
that that I read last week regarding the scientific studies

3420
02:58:27,920 --> 02:58:32,170
, especially one quote that I read last week from David Carp

3421
02:58:32,170 --> 02:58:33,000
enter.

3422
02:58:33,000 --> 02:58:36,000
I'll pull that away for a second.

3423
02:58:36,000 --> 02:58:39,090
Cancer has a long latency, so you're not seeing an

3424
02:58:39,090 --> 02:58:42,000
elevation in cancer in these communities.

3425
02:58:42,000 --> 02:58:46,190
But five, 10, 15 years from now, elevation in cancer is

3426
02:58:46,190 --> 02:58:48,000
almost certain to happen.

3427
02:58:48,000 --> 02:58:52,899
And I'll go ahead and place that back so others can see the

3428
02:58:52,899 --> 02:58:54,000
studies.

3429
02:58:54,000 --> 02:58:58,000
There's so much already documented about the ill impacts on

3430
02:58:58,000 --> 02:59:02,000
human health with regard to the chemicals used in fracking.

3431
02:59:02,000 --> 02:59:06,000
And this growing body of evidence, it just simply keeps

3432
02:59:06,000 --> 02:59:07,000
mounting.

3433
02:59:07,000 --> 02:59:10,500
Considering that a 1,000 foot setback is much less than the

3434
02:59:10,500 --> 02:59:13,159
studies would recommend, I don't think it's prudent to

3435
02:59:13,159 --> 02:59:16,000
reduce the reverse setbacks to 250,

3436
02:59:16,000 --> 02:59:20,319
nor do I think it's prudent to create variances down to 500

3437
02:59:20,319 --> 02:59:22,000
feet for residences.

3438
02:59:22,000 --> 02:59:25,760
I actually think this is reckless endangerment based on

3439
02:59:25,760 --> 02:59:30,200
even what we heard from the chief this evening, the fire

3440
02:59:30,200 --> 02:59:31,000
chief.

3441
02:59:31,000 --> 02:59:38,000
And what Ed so eloquently spoke about as well.

3442
02:59:38,000 --> 02:59:40,520
So I do believe it's reckless endangerment of current and

3443
02:59:40,520 --> 02:59:42,000
future residents of Denton.

3444
02:59:42,000 --> 02:59:46,239
And I say this knowing the recommended evacuation plan of

3445
02:59:46,239 --> 02:59:52,280
acceptable standards is typically the 1,000 feet and down

3446
02:59:52,280 --> 02:59:54,000
to 330.

3447
02:59:54,000 --> 02:59:58,030
When a well explosion occurs, and also all of the evidence

3448
02:59:58,030 --> 03:00:01,629
I've already presented of health impacts that occur to

3449
03:00:01,629 --> 03:00:07,000
people living at much greater distances than 1,000 feet.

3450
03:00:07,000 --> 03:00:10,069
And so I don't really think it's prudent to go beyond, to

3451
03:00:10,069 --> 03:00:12,000
go below 1,000 feet.

3452
03:00:12,000 --> 03:00:16,000
I think that's the absolute bare minimum that we should do.

3453
03:00:16,000 --> 03:00:25,000
I also have a second visual.

3454
03:00:25,000 --> 03:00:27,899
I'd like to show you some of the chemicals that we know are

3455
03:00:27,899 --> 03:00:31,030
involved in fracking that would seriously adversely impact

3456
03:00:31,030 --> 03:00:33,000
families living near fracking.

3457
03:00:33,000 --> 03:00:38,579
We have volatile organic compounds, benzene, which is a car

3458
03:00:38,579 --> 03:00:44,209
cinogen, it impacts neurological, it causes asthma, as well

3459
03:00:44,209 --> 03:00:45,000
as respiratory issues.

3460
03:00:45,000 --> 03:00:48,639
We have toluene, ethylbenzene, xylenes, formaldehyde,

3461
03:00:48,639 --> 03:00:52,469
hydrogen sulfide, arsenic and lead, which are both heavy

3462
03:00:52,469 --> 03:00:55,000
metal, poisonous heavy metals.

3463
03:00:55,000 --> 03:01:00,000
All of these chemicals are known to be found near fracking.

3464
03:01:00,000 --> 03:01:06,860
Lastly, I'd like to talk about speculative land investing

3465
03:01:06,860 --> 03:01:09,000
versus public health and safety.

3466
03:01:09,000 --> 03:01:13,020
Speculative investing is a high risk activity, and that's

3467
03:01:13,020 --> 03:01:16,000
what the unimproved land investment is.

3468
03:01:16,000 --> 03:01:20,000
It's a speculative investment.

3469
03:01:20,000 --> 03:01:22,610
The bottom line of returns of the investor should not be

3470
03:01:22,610 --> 03:01:25,280
equally weighed against the health and safety of Denton

3471
03:01:25,280 --> 03:01:26,000
residents,

3472
03:01:26,000 --> 03:01:30,280
especially when it's your responsibility to ensure the

3473
03:01:30,280 --> 03:01:33,000
health and safety of the public.

3474
03:01:33,000 --> 03:01:39,069
To equally weigh the two would be a false balance, and

3475
03:01:39,069 --> 03:01:41,000
especially when 59% of the population voted to ban fracking

3476
03:01:41,000 --> 03:01:48,000
altogether, knowing the health impacts.

3477
03:01:48,000 --> 03:01:52,569
I really just hope that you guys go ahead and please

3478
03:01:52,569 --> 03:01:57,000
maintain 1,000 foot setbacks, 1,000 foot reverse setbacks,

3479
03:01:57,000 --> 03:02:00,000
no variances, no loopholes.

3480
03:02:00,000 --> 03:02:03,000
That's what I'm asking for this evening. Thank you.

3481
03:02:03,000 --> 03:02:12,000
Thank you. Morgan Larson and then Kelly Barr.

3482
03:02:12,000 --> 03:02:18,000
Hey, y'all. I am Morgan Larson. I live at 2210 Westwood.

3483
03:02:18,000 --> 03:02:23,100
I am in opposition to this or in opposition to parts of it,

3484
03:02:23,100 --> 03:02:24,000
right?

3485
03:02:24,000 --> 03:02:31,299
I also sent you guys an email with, you know, my thoughts

3486
03:02:31,299 --> 03:02:34,000
on the ordinance.

3487
03:02:34,000 --> 03:02:36,000
So there's that for you guys to look at.

3488
03:02:36,000 --> 03:02:43,250
But in echoing what other people have said, I do not want

3489
03:02:43,250 --> 03:02:49,000
first of all, I agree with Ron.

3490
03:02:49,000 --> 03:02:51,899
Let's stand and fight with the rest of the counties that

3491
03:02:51,899 --> 03:02:53,000
are here in Texas.

3492
03:02:53,000 --> 03:02:55,989
Let's stay and let's fight with Dallas and Flower Mound and

3493
03:02:55,989 --> 03:02:57,000
the other ones.

3494
03:02:57,000 --> 03:02:59,989
We have a fight on our hands. It's no good to isolate

3495
03:02:59,989 --> 03:03:02,000
ourselves, right?

3496
03:03:02,000 --> 03:03:06,000
So let's stand with each other and fight these ordinances.

3497
03:03:06,000 --> 03:03:08,899
We're going to be challenged no matter what, no matter what

3498
03:03:08,899 --> 03:03:10,000
these setbacks are.

3499
03:03:10,000 --> 03:03:13,629
So why are we -- why not push for the most when we get our

3500
03:03:13,629 --> 03:03:15,000
ban taken away?

3501
03:03:15,000 --> 03:03:20,129
Why do we're anything less? So across the board, 1,500 foot

3502
03:03:20,129 --> 03:03:23,000
setbacks across the board, period.

3503
03:03:23,000 --> 03:03:28,000
Let's see. No minimums, period.

3504
03:03:28,000 --> 03:03:31,209
To the same reasons why other people have said why, what,

3505
03:03:31,209 --> 03:03:32,000
minimums.

3506
03:03:32,000 --> 03:03:36,000
Our ordinance is the minimum. What are we talking about?

3507
03:03:36,000 --> 03:03:43,920
Let's see. For 35.5.10.6 -- I'm sorry, I don't know how to

3508
03:03:43,920 --> 03:03:45,000
say it.

3509
03:03:45,000 --> 03:03:50,989
But relief measures, right, when we're talking about those,

3510
03:03:50,989 --> 03:03:54,000
operators may obtain reduction in the drilling production

3511
03:03:54,000 --> 03:03:58,000
site setback requirements of section 35.5.10.2

3512
03:03:58,000 --> 03:04:01,379
by procuring written notarized waivers from 100% of the

3513
03:04:01,379 --> 03:04:02,000
owners.

3514
03:04:02,000 --> 03:04:08,000
We've already addressed that. I stand with Tara Lynn.

3515
03:04:08,000 --> 03:04:11,000
No reduction in setbacks. What else?

3516
03:04:11,000 --> 03:04:17,000
Oh, yeah. So the part that says the Board of Adjustments

3517
03:04:17,000 --> 03:04:20,469
shall hear and decide appeals of orders, decisions, or

3518
03:04:20,469 --> 03:04:25,000
determinations made by the gas well administrator and so on

3519
03:04:25,000 --> 03:04:27,000
and so forth.

3520
03:04:27,000 --> 03:04:29,969
Why isn't this public? Why is this small body deciding

3521
03:04:29,969 --> 03:04:32,000
something for the rest of Denton?

3522
03:04:32,000 --> 03:04:36,049
I don't get it. I agree with Ron. Make it available to the

3523
03:04:36,049 --> 03:04:37,000
public.

3524
03:04:37,000 --> 03:04:40,180
Let us decide and hear very publicly what's going on. I don

3525
03:04:40,180 --> 03:04:41,000
't get that at all.

3526
03:04:41,000 --> 03:04:44,350
And you guys, right? Not just the City of Denton, but y'all

3527
03:04:44,350 --> 03:04:47,000
, too. I don't understand that.

3528
03:04:47,000 --> 03:04:49,299
There's lots of things in here that I don't necessarily

3529
03:04:49,299 --> 03:04:50,000
understand.

3530
03:04:50,000 --> 03:04:53,239
But I appreciate you guys working very hard because I know

3531
03:04:53,239 --> 03:04:56,000
this has been a very long, arduous process.

3532
03:04:56,000 --> 03:05:00,309
Let's see. I would also like mandatory baseline soil and

3533
03:05:00,309 --> 03:05:04,000
water testing paid for by the industry.

3534
03:05:04,000 --> 03:05:07,489
Let's milk that cow. They can pay that, right? No open

3535
03:05:07,489 --> 03:05:12,000
surface pits within city limits. End of question.

3536
03:05:12,000 --> 03:05:16,909
There has to be vapor recovery units. This is a surface

3537
03:05:16,909 --> 03:05:21,000
level activity. Why wouldn't we get it?

3538
03:05:21,000 --> 03:05:24,719
We should have air monitors, period. End of subject. And I

3539
03:05:24,719 --> 03:05:26,000
agree with Cindy.

3540
03:05:26,000 --> 03:05:29,440
Increase the application for these people. Why not make a

3541
03:05:29,440 --> 03:05:30,000
profit off of it?

3542
03:05:30,000 --> 03:05:33,209
If so many people want to come for Act Denton, why not make

3543
03:05:33,209 --> 03:05:36,000
a profit off of it even more? Just thoughts.

3544
03:05:36,000 --> 03:05:39,000
We have a question. Kelly Brink.

3545
03:05:39,000 --> 03:05:43,190
Yes. You brought up about the fact of the variances in the

3546
03:05:43,190 --> 03:05:45,000
Zoning Board of Adjustments.

3547
03:05:45,000 --> 03:05:50,379
And I too had that same question and talked to legal about

3548
03:05:50,379 --> 03:05:54,000
it. And I wanted as well for the things to come in front of

3549
03:05:54,000 --> 03:05:56,000
council each time.

3550
03:05:56,000 --> 03:05:59,680
So there was this -- because Arlington has the two-step

3551
03:05:59,680 --> 03:06:03,000
process for the public to know what's going on.

3552
03:06:03,000 --> 03:06:06,600
And I was -- can you explain -- it's something about the

3553
03:06:06,600 --> 03:06:10,000
way the ordinance -- it's a zoning ordinance.

3554
03:06:10,000 --> 03:06:14,639
I'm going to let her explain because I too had that request

3555
03:06:14,639 --> 03:06:15,000
. Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

3556
03:06:15,000 --> 03:06:18,889
Sure. Thanks for the opportunity to enlighten just a little

3557
03:06:18,889 --> 03:06:21,000
bit on that particular point.

3558
03:06:21,000 --> 03:06:24,159
I think it's important. We've heard a lot of citizen

3559
03:06:24,159 --> 03:06:26,000
comment along these lines.

3560
03:06:26,000 --> 03:06:32,719
Our ordinance is probably unique among North Texas ordin

3561
03:06:32,719 --> 03:06:39,000
ances in as much as it's crafted as a zoning ordinance.

3562
03:06:39,000 --> 03:06:41,780
For example, for Orr's Ordinance it is not crafted as a

3563
03:06:41,780 --> 03:06:43,000
zoning ordinance.

3564
03:06:43,000 --> 03:06:47,000
It's crafted as a police regulatory power ordinance.

3565
03:06:47,000 --> 03:06:50,579
Ours, however, as a zoning ordinance puts these variance

3566
03:06:50,579 --> 03:06:54,000
processes in a little different light.

3567
03:06:54,000 --> 03:07:00,459
And we must in order to ensure that our zoning ordinance

3568
03:07:00,459 --> 03:07:05,350
remains such, follow state law as it concerns the variance

3569
03:07:05,350 --> 03:07:06,000
process.

3570
03:07:06,000 --> 03:07:09,809
State law provides that we will go to the Zoning Board of

3571
03:07:09,809 --> 03:07:11,000
Adjustment.

3572
03:07:11,000 --> 03:07:14,639
It does not allow us to go process these variances through

3573
03:07:14,639 --> 03:07:16,000
the city council.

3574
03:07:16,000 --> 03:07:18,000
That's just the way state law is written.

3575
03:07:18,000 --> 03:07:20,899
And so in that respect what we've done is crafted the

3576
03:07:20,899 --> 03:07:24,799
zoning ordinance, I think for some very good and valid

3577
03:07:24,799 --> 03:07:26,000
legal reasons.

3578
03:07:26,000 --> 03:07:30,030
And then that puts us in these variance processes at the Z

3579
03:07:30,030 --> 03:07:34,000
oning Board of Adjustment and not the city council.

3580
03:07:34,000 --> 03:07:37,000
And so that's why we've crafted it this way.

3581
03:07:37,000 --> 03:07:40,760
I think we must follow state law and I think there's a good

3582
03:07:40,760 --> 03:07:42,000
reason to do so.

3583
03:07:42,000 --> 03:07:44,000
Ms. Briggs.

3584
03:07:44,000 --> 03:07:48,520
Okay. And I wanted to, about the pits, is the, we only

3585
03:07:48,520 --> 03:07:55,000
allow freshwater pits, is that correct in our ordinance?

3586
03:07:55,000 --> 03:08:00,000
Because I wanted to know about that as well.

3587
03:08:00,000 --> 03:08:03,809
Yeah, our requirement for the pits dating back even a

3588
03:08:03,809 --> 03:08:08,000
couple years has specific constituent requirements.

3589
03:08:08,000 --> 03:08:10,530
So basically if it's not a freshwater pit, it wouldn't meet

3590
03:08:10,530 --> 03:08:11,000
those.

3591
03:08:11,000 --> 03:08:13,790
So any of the pits that exist, we're not proposing to close

3592
03:08:13,790 --> 03:08:18,569
, but they would be a freshwater pit typically used to store

3593
03:08:18,569 --> 03:08:24,000
that water for the next stage of drilling activities.

3594
03:08:24,000 --> 03:08:26,000
Thank you.

3595
03:08:26,000 --> 03:08:29,000
I don't, oh, I do see another question from Mr. Roden.

3596
03:08:29,000 --> 03:08:32,000
Just to follow up to the question for legal on that.

3597
03:08:32,000 --> 03:08:35,250
And just to clarify, because ZBA is a public meeting body,

3598
03:08:35,250 --> 03:08:36,000
correct?

3599
03:08:36,000 --> 03:08:39,799
So any of these variances requests would go through a

3600
03:08:39,799 --> 03:08:43,469
public process and would that involve the public being able

3601
03:08:43,469 --> 03:08:45,000
to speak at that meeting?

3602
03:08:45,000 --> 03:08:50,510
Right. The Zoning Board of Adjustment is a quasi-judicial

3603
03:08:50,510 --> 03:08:51,000
body.

3604
03:08:51,000 --> 03:08:54,139
And there are certain notice provisions that will apply

3605
03:08:54,139 --> 03:08:57,260
before the Zoning Board of Adjustment can actually hear

3606
03:08:57,260 --> 03:08:59,000
cases that come before it.

3607
03:08:59,000 --> 03:09:02,000
So those notices will go out.

3608
03:09:02,000 --> 03:09:06,569
The public will have an opportunity to be present and to

3609
03:09:06,569 --> 03:09:09,620
hear and present information with regard to the case that's

3610
03:09:09,620 --> 03:09:12,000
coming before the Zoning Board of Adjustment.

3611
03:09:12,000 --> 03:09:15,000
So in that respect, it will be a very public process.

3612
03:09:15,000 --> 03:09:18,190
And the nomination and appointment process for that body is

3613
03:09:18,190 --> 03:09:20,000
also itself a public process.

3614
03:09:20,000 --> 03:09:22,000
Having seen that just tonight.

3615
03:09:22,000 --> 03:09:24,000
Right. Just tonight. Yes, sir.

3616
03:09:24,000 --> 03:09:25,000
Thanks.

3617
03:09:25,000 --> 03:09:27,559
And who appoints the members of the Zoning Board of Adjust

3618
03:09:27,559 --> 03:09:28,000
ment?

3619
03:09:28,000 --> 03:09:30,000
That is the City Council.

3620
03:09:30,000 --> 03:09:31,000
Okay.

3621
03:09:31,000 --> 03:09:38,069
And do you care to elaborate on why we decided in the city

3622
03:09:38,069 --> 03:09:48,000
to place our gas well drilling regulations in zoning code?

3623
03:09:48,000 --> 03:09:52,850
Briefly, I'll address that without going into a great deal

3624
03:09:52,850 --> 03:09:54,000
of detail.

3625
03:09:54,000 --> 03:09:58,709
The City of Denton early in the early 2000s decided to

3626
03:09:58,709 --> 03:10:03,079
approach gas well drilling a little bit differently, I

3627
03:10:03,079 --> 03:10:07,659
think, than other Texas, certainly in North Texas and other

3628
03:10:07,659 --> 03:10:09,000
Texas cities.

3629
03:10:09,000 --> 03:10:12,000
And we required these gas well plats.

3630
03:10:12,000 --> 03:10:15,780
And so these old gas well plats, some of them quite large,

3631
03:10:15,780 --> 03:10:19,770
have been an issue that we have grappled with for a couple

3632
03:10:19,770 --> 03:10:22,000
of decades, really.

3633
03:10:22,000 --> 03:10:25,969
And so we've decided to craft our ordinance, our gas well

3634
03:10:25,969 --> 03:10:30,120
drilling ordinance as a zoning ordinance to assist us in

3635
03:10:30,120 --> 03:10:33,149
addressing some of those problems that we experienced with

3636
03:10:33,149 --> 03:10:34,000
those plats.

3637
03:10:34,000 --> 03:10:37,940
So this is, I think, a valiant effort and a good attempt on

3638
03:10:37,940 --> 03:10:41,559
the part of the city's legal team to address a number of

3639
03:10:41,559 --> 03:10:43,000
those problems.

3640
03:10:43,000 --> 03:10:45,000
Okay. Thank you.

3641
03:10:45,000 --> 03:10:47,000
I don't see any more questions.

3642
03:10:47,000 --> 03:10:54,000
Kelly Barr, then Rosemary Candleria.

3643
03:10:54,000 --> 03:10:57,709
Comrade Barr, state your name and address and you can begin

3644
03:10:57,709 --> 03:10:58,000
.

3645
03:10:58,000 --> 03:11:01,000
Hi. I'm the local Russian agent again.

3646
03:11:01,000 --> 03:11:06,000
Kelly Barr, I'm at 1005 West Hickory Street.

3647
03:11:06,000 --> 03:11:09,020
And I wanted to say that I'm glad to see that some positive

3648
03:11:09,020 --> 03:11:12,459
changes have been made regarding notifications to residents

3649
03:11:12,459 --> 03:11:15,559
in particular and also monitoring and enforcement of site

3650
03:11:15,559 --> 03:11:17,000
equipment standards.

3651
03:11:17,000 --> 03:11:21,000
Those are all great, but that's very low-hanging fruit.

3652
03:11:21,000 --> 03:11:24,139
The most important part of this ordinance is the setback

3653
03:11:24,139 --> 03:11:25,000
distances.

3654
03:11:25,000 --> 03:11:28,379
Given that, these revisions miss the forest through the

3655
03:11:28,379 --> 03:11:30,000
trees, is my argument.

3656
03:11:30,000 --> 03:11:33,129
That forces the entire city landscape, as you just

3657
03:11:33,129 --> 03:11:36,600
mentioned, that where so much land has been gobbled up by

3658
03:11:36,600 --> 03:11:40,459
oil and gas development over the years, that it leaves all

3659
03:11:40,459 --> 03:11:47,069
of us, those who do and do not own land in Osari State,

3660
03:11:47,069 --> 03:11:49,000
because much of that land remains unusable in perpetuity.

3661
03:11:49,000 --> 03:11:51,700
And so we're left with the legacy of these really bad

3662
03:11:51,700 --> 03:11:54,000
previous land use practice decisions.

3663
03:11:54,000 --> 03:11:57,670
So HB40 is a big part of our story in this revision process

3664
03:11:57,670 --> 03:12:01,069
, but the other big part is that history of poor land use

3665
03:12:01,069 --> 03:12:02,000
decisions.

3666
03:12:02,000 --> 03:12:05,000
And by poor here I mean, to use the now infamous phrase, a

3667
03:12:05,000 --> 03:12:08,170
patchwork quilt of decisions that were designed to promote

3668
03:12:08,170 --> 03:12:11,000
as much mineral land development as possible.

3669
03:12:11,000 --> 03:12:13,000
So now we have to deal with that legacy.

3670
03:12:13,000 --> 03:12:15,899
An important part of that legacy is who our land use

3671
03:12:15,899 --> 03:12:18,000
practices are designed to serve.

3672
03:12:18,000 --> 03:12:20,000
And that's what I want to focus on.

3673
03:12:20,000 --> 03:12:23,379
So I urge you to pass an ordinance that serves the people

3674
03:12:23,379 --> 03:12:25,000
of Denton, generally.

3675
03:12:25,000 --> 03:12:27,489
Because when it comes to land use in Denton, special

3676
03:12:27,489 --> 03:12:29,879
interests always have been involved in the policy

3677
03:12:29,879 --> 03:12:33,000
infrastructure and embedded in the policy infrastructure.

3678
03:12:33,000 --> 03:12:35,899
To think that we started on a level playing field with

3679
03:12:35,899 --> 03:12:38,979
regard to the balance between oil and gas operators, land

3680
03:12:38,979 --> 03:12:42,000
developers, and the public in Denton is a mistake.

3681
03:12:42,000 --> 03:12:44,899
Promoting land development is so embedded in the policy

3682
03:12:44,899 --> 03:12:48,100
infrastructure that we are constantly tempted to understand

3683
03:12:48,100 --> 03:12:50,690
this problem in terms of a home ownership and a land

3684
03:12:50,690 --> 03:12:52,000
ownership problem.

3685
03:12:52,000 --> 03:12:55,430
But passing the ordinance is not a homeowner or a landowner

3686
03:12:55,430 --> 03:12:56,000
issue.

3687
03:12:56,000 --> 03:13:00,190
It's an issue of the public good for the city of Denton as

3688
03:13:00,190 --> 03:13:01,000
a whole.

3689
03:13:01,000 --> 03:13:04,000
It's not about individual property rights.

3690
03:13:04,000 --> 03:13:07,719
It's not the same kind of issue as being able to paint your

3691
03:13:07,719 --> 03:13:10,000
house whatever color you want.

3692
03:13:10,000 --> 03:13:12,899
We know that the downstream impacts of fracking are never

3693
03:13:12,899 --> 03:13:15,719
contained within the bounds of a pad site or a plot of land

3694
03:13:15,719 --> 03:13:16,000
.

3695
03:13:16,000 --> 03:13:17,000
We know that.

3696
03:13:17,000 --> 03:13:20,000
We know that the impacts leach out.

3697
03:13:20,000 --> 03:13:23,079
And we know that fracking is dangerous and that more

3698
03:13:23,079 --> 03:13:26,000
evidence of this rolls in on a regular basis.

3699
03:13:26,000 --> 03:13:28,000
Fracking harms people in the immediate vicinity.

3700
03:13:28,000 --> 03:13:30,209
Over time, it pollutes the air that whole communities

3701
03:13:30,209 --> 03:13:31,000
breathe, right?

3702
03:13:31,000 --> 03:13:33,000
Not just the people around a frac site.

3703
03:13:33,000 --> 03:13:35,000
It winds its way into our water.

3704
03:13:35,000 --> 03:13:37,079
It erodes our public roadways, and it degrades our health

3705
03:13:37,079 --> 03:13:38,000
and quality of life.

3706
03:13:38,000 --> 03:13:40,899
So regarding whether or not we allow homes to be built near

3707
03:13:40,899 --> 03:13:43,620
fracking operations or new operations to be put in next to

3708
03:13:43,620 --> 03:13:46,000
protected use properties, a better analogy is deciding

3709
03:13:46,000 --> 03:13:48,760
whether or not someone can turn a neighborhood backyard

3710
03:13:48,760 --> 03:13:52,020
into a hog farm or whether someone can build a school on

3711
03:13:52,020 --> 03:13:53,000
the wrong side of a levy.

3712
03:13:53,000 --> 03:13:55,909
The real sticking point here is deciding on land use

3713
03:13:55,909 --> 03:13:59,100
practices that are sensible and safe for everyone in the

3714
03:13:59,100 --> 03:14:00,000
long term.

3715
03:14:00,000 --> 03:14:02,520
This means not only the people who are here now, but future

3716
03:14:02,520 --> 03:14:04,790
generations of Dentonites, including master plan

3717
03:14:04,790 --> 03:14:07,000
communities and plan development community people, too.

3718
03:14:07,000 --> 03:14:11,670
So I echo concern about the kinds of suggestions that have

3719
03:14:11,670 --> 03:14:14,000
been posed here tonight.

3720
03:14:14,000 --> 03:14:17,000
Things about no variances, right?

3721
03:14:17,000 --> 03:14:18,000
A thousand foot setback or more.

3722
03:14:18,000 --> 03:14:20,000
Reverse setback and minimum setback.

3723
03:14:20,000 --> 03:14:22,000
I think all those should be equal.

3724
03:14:22,000 --> 03:14:25,729
We need things like air quality and soil quality monitoring

3725
03:14:25,729 --> 03:14:26,000
.

3726
03:14:26,000 --> 03:14:28,000
These are very basic, sensible things to do.

3727
03:14:28,000 --> 03:14:32,000
We need things like vapor recovery units.

3728
03:14:32,000 --> 03:14:35,000
A very sensible thing to do, right?

3729
03:14:35,000 --> 03:14:39,180
So and some, I urge you to pass an ordinance that actually

3730
03:14:39,180 --> 03:14:42,479
reflects that fracking is something that impacts the

3731
03:14:42,479 --> 03:14:45,719
entirety of the city of Denton and therefore is something

3732
03:14:45,719 --> 03:14:48,659
that concerns how it is that we use land in the city as a

3733
03:14:48,659 --> 03:14:52,000
whole and not just in individual situations.

3734
03:14:52,000 --> 03:14:55,000
There's a question from Mr. Hawkins.

3735
03:14:55,000 --> 03:14:56,000
Thank you.

3736
03:14:56,000 --> 03:14:57,000
I always appreciate when you speak.

3737
03:14:57,000 --> 03:15:01,190
I think you're very articulate and you make some very good

3738
03:15:01,190 --> 03:15:02,000
points.

3739
03:15:02,000 --> 03:15:09,000
Just under House Bill 40, our struggle is, you know, we're

3740
03:15:09,000 --> 03:15:12,090
trying to not take away these families have had these

3741
03:15:12,090 --> 03:15:14,000
chunks of land for a long time.

3742
03:15:14,000 --> 03:15:16,600
It's been in their family for a long time and they plan on

3743
03:15:16,600 --> 03:15:18,000
developing part of that.

3744
03:15:18,000 --> 03:15:21,239
And just with some of these setbacks, it just takes back, I

3745
03:15:21,239 --> 03:15:24,450
know you know this already, just takes away huge chunks of

3746
03:15:24,450 --> 03:15:25,000
that.

3747
03:15:25,000 --> 03:15:28,569
So legal or staff and all of us together came up with

3748
03:15:28,569 --> 03:15:32,379
reverse setback and we're trying to really beef up the

3749
03:15:32,379 --> 03:15:36,639
notification process to let these people know what they're

3750
03:15:36,639 --> 03:15:38,000
getting into.

3751
03:15:38,000 --> 03:15:41,540
Do you see any other measure that we could put in place to

3752
03:15:41,540 --> 03:15:45,000
beat that up more or on the notification process?

3753
03:15:45,000 --> 03:15:47,450
I'm not saying that you necessarily agree with the reverse

3754
03:15:47,450 --> 03:15:48,000
setback.

3755
03:15:48,000 --> 03:15:49,000
I get that.

3756
03:15:49,000 --> 03:15:52,409
But I just want to make sure that we haven't left any stone

3757
03:15:52,409 --> 03:15:54,000
unturned in that way.

3758
03:15:54,000 --> 03:15:58,000
Well, I mean the notifications are pretty small stone.

3759
03:15:58,000 --> 03:15:59,000
Really.

3760
03:15:59,000 --> 03:16:02,209
So I mean something that you could do immediately, which is

3761
03:16:02,209 --> 03:16:04,989
what Tara Lynn recommended, which is reduce the requirement

3762
03:16:04,989 --> 03:16:08,329
that people can't be notified until 20 days before the

3763
03:16:08,329 --> 03:16:09,000
operation starts.

3764
03:16:09,000 --> 03:16:12,719
I don't see any reason why you couldn't allow for advanced

3765
03:16:12,719 --> 03:16:14,000
notification.

3766
03:16:14,000 --> 03:16:17,379
And I know even in my own rental property unit, you have to

3767
03:16:17,379 --> 03:16:21,000
give 60 day notification if you're going to move out.

3768
03:16:21,000 --> 03:16:23,000
I think we're talking about two separate things.

3769
03:16:23,000 --> 03:16:27,000
If you're about to buy a house and that process.

3770
03:16:27,000 --> 03:16:29,000
So like disclosure requirements?

3771
03:16:29,000 --> 03:16:29,000
Yes.

3772
03:16:29,000 --> 03:16:31,000
Yeah, I think that should be a public process.

3773
03:16:31,000 --> 03:16:33,930
I mean, if it's the case that we're going to allow the

3774
03:16:33,930 --> 03:16:37,290
industry to use even more land than they've already taken,

3775
03:16:37,290 --> 03:16:38,000
right?

3776
03:16:38,000 --> 03:16:39,000
Even more land.

3777
03:16:39,000 --> 03:16:41,270
And if it's the case that they're going to be impacting

3778
03:16:41,270 --> 03:16:43,700
even more people, that needs to be something that we deal

3779
03:16:43,700 --> 03:16:45,000
with together as a city.

3780
03:16:45,000 --> 03:16:45,000
Right?

3781
03:16:45,000 --> 03:16:48,239
Because this isn't just an issue of individual properties

3782
03:16:48,239 --> 03:16:51,000
or individual people who are being impacted.

3783
03:16:51,000 --> 03:16:54,209
This is something where the impacts leach out into the city

3784
03:16:54,209 --> 03:16:55,000
as a whole.

3785
03:16:55,000 --> 03:16:57,629
So something like having town hall meetings where people

3786
03:16:57,629 --> 03:17:00,250
are notified of when new fracking activities are going to

3787
03:17:00,250 --> 03:17:01,000
take place.

3788
03:17:01,000 --> 03:17:05,190
Something like, you know, like a chunk of text that the

3789
03:17:05,190 --> 03:17:10,469
city defines as standard boilerplate disclosure text that

3790
03:17:10,469 --> 03:17:14,000
anyone who is selling property in and around Gaswell

3791
03:17:14,000 --> 03:17:18,000
Development or anyone who plans to develop property or

3792
03:17:18,000 --> 03:17:21,620
anything regarding land ownership, transfer of ownership or

3793
03:17:21,620 --> 03:17:25,360
something like that, new residents that come in who are

3794
03:17:25,360 --> 03:17:27,000
renting a property.

3795
03:17:27,000 --> 03:17:28,000
Right?

3796
03:17:28,000 --> 03:17:31,219
The city can define this boilerplate text that has to be

3797
03:17:31,219 --> 03:17:34,000
that that would need a disclosure requirement.

3798
03:17:34,000 --> 03:17:36,590
And it could say something about the health and safety

3799
03:17:36,590 --> 03:17:39,290
impacts of fracking just so that people are alerted that

3800
03:17:39,290 --> 03:17:42,000
this might be something that's really dangerous.

3801
03:17:42,000 --> 03:17:44,469
I mean, obviously, it's not the case that every existing

3802
03:17:44,469 --> 03:17:46,000
pad site is going to be refract.

3803
03:17:46,000 --> 03:17:48,000
How would they be alerted?

3804
03:17:48,000 --> 03:17:51,159
Well, I don't know much about what the typical disclosure

3805
03:17:51,159 --> 03:17:52,000
process is.

3806
03:17:52,000 --> 03:17:55,040
Well, just in this, the notification process, there's four

3807
03:17:55,040 --> 03:17:56,000
of them listed.

3808
03:17:56,000 --> 03:17:58,940
And so we're trying kind of during a close, you know, when

3809
03:17:58,940 --> 03:18:01,879
you go buy a house, like getting that close, I know there's

3810
03:18:01,879 --> 03:18:06,000
a bunch of signatures required, but you're just, you know,

3811
03:18:06,000 --> 03:18:08,000
notified four different ways.

3812
03:18:08,000 --> 03:18:11,129
And I'm just trying to in that way, just make sure that if

3813
03:18:11,129 --> 03:18:14,129
I agree to the reverse setback that that person that's

3814
03:18:14,129 --> 03:18:17,479
buying that home is notified, you know, they know what they

3815
03:18:17,479 --> 03:18:18,000
're getting into.

3816
03:18:18,000 --> 03:18:20,000
That's what I'm struggling with.

3817
03:18:20,000 --> 03:18:23,000
And I just want to know if you had an opinion on that.

3818
03:18:23,000 --> 03:18:24,000
Well, I mean, that's where thinking about more.

3819
03:18:24,000 --> 03:18:26,940
I think it might be the case for a lot of people that the

3820
03:18:26,940 --> 03:18:29,000
date of the closing is too late.

3821
03:18:29,000 --> 03:18:29,000
Right?

3822
03:18:29,000 --> 03:18:30,969
They've already invested a lot of money and time and energy

3823
03:18:30,969 --> 03:18:32,000
in getting to that point.

3824
03:18:32,000 --> 03:18:34,299
So maybe thinking about something that could be done before

3825
03:18:34,299 --> 03:18:36,000
they get to that point would be helpful.

3826
03:18:36,000 --> 03:18:38,250
But again, I want to reiterate that I don't think the

3827
03:18:38,250 --> 03:18:41,000
notification or disclosure is the most important part here.

3828
03:18:41,000 --> 03:18:43,790
The most important part is the setbacks because we already

3829
03:18:43,790 --> 03:18:46,579
know what happens when you co-locate houses or other kinds

3830
03:18:46,579 --> 03:18:49,000
of protective use with fracking activities.

3831
03:18:49,000 --> 03:18:51,770
We know that leads to definite harms and that people are

3832
03:18:51,770 --> 03:18:53,000
not happy with that.

3833
03:18:53,000 --> 03:18:55,000
That's not a wise use of land.

3834
03:18:55,000 --> 03:18:57,000
So I think the setback distance is so much more pressing.

3835
03:18:57,000 --> 03:18:58,819
You've got a couple people up here, but thank you very much

3836
03:18:58,819 --> 03:18:59,000
.

3837
03:18:59,000 --> 03:19:00,000
Okay.

3838
03:19:00,000 --> 03:19:01,000
Mr. Johnson.

3839
03:19:01,000 --> 03:19:03,000
Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem.

3840
03:19:03,000 --> 03:19:05,639
I, too, think you're very articulate and I think you make a

3841
03:19:05,639 --> 03:19:07,000
lot of really good points.

3842
03:19:07,000 --> 03:19:13,030
I want to see if I can maybe see if you understand maybe a

3843
03:19:13,030 --> 03:19:18,000
different twist on the value of the land.

3844
03:19:18,000 --> 03:19:20,000
You're talking to a philosopher.

3845
03:19:20,000 --> 03:19:21,000
Yeah.

3846
03:19:21,000 --> 03:19:26,299
So because what I hear from you pretty often is referring

3847
03:19:26,299 --> 03:19:30,159
to the special interests, right, the developers and making

3848
03:19:30,159 --> 03:19:31,000
more money and so on.

3849
03:19:31,000 --> 03:19:33,000
Right.

3850
03:19:33,000 --> 03:19:35,959
I want to make sure you understand, at least where I stand

3851
03:19:35,959 --> 03:19:38,840
and I think where most of our conversations are, is it's

3852
03:19:38,840 --> 03:19:40,000
not about money.

3853
03:19:40,000 --> 03:19:43,379
So those gentlemen that spoke earlier, the family land, the

3854
03:19:43,379 --> 03:19:46,000
land's been in their family for 70 years.

3855
03:19:46,000 --> 03:19:49,000
It's not so much about how much money he can make.

3856
03:19:49,000 --> 03:19:53,540
It's about whether as government we have the right to take

3857
03:19:53,540 --> 03:19:58,000
it or to tell him what he can or can't do with the property

3858
03:19:58,000 --> 03:19:58,000
because,

3859
03:19:58,000 --> 03:20:00,610
because you're very passionate about this and you're very

3860
03:20:00,610 --> 03:20:03,120
articulate about it and you feel very strongly about the

3861
03:20:03,120 --> 03:20:05,000
health hazards, right?

3862
03:20:05,000 --> 03:20:08,000
And people can agree or disagree.

3863
03:20:08,000 --> 03:20:10,329
Some people say they don't think it causes any health

3864
03:20:10,329 --> 03:20:11,000
problems.

3865
03:20:11,000 --> 03:20:12,000
You do.

3866
03:20:12,000 --> 03:20:17,219
And in this country, we have long had the ability to civ

3867
03:20:17,219 --> 03:20:19,000
illy disagree.

3868
03:20:19,000 --> 03:20:22,430
So the question isn't really so much about money in my mind

3869
03:20:22,430 --> 03:20:27,200
where if we say 1,000 foot setbacks and 1,000 foot reverse

3870
03:20:27,200 --> 03:20:28,000
setbacks,

3871
03:20:28,000 --> 03:20:31,610
we're talking about 100 and something acres of somebody's

3872
03:20:31,610 --> 03:20:34,799
property that we as government would say you now can't use

3873
03:20:34,799 --> 03:20:38,000
it for anything other than put your cows on it.

3874
03:20:38,000 --> 03:20:39,000
That's the dilemma.

3875
03:20:39,000 --> 03:20:42,510
The dilemma isn't to say we want a house built on every

3876
03:20:42,510 --> 03:20:45,840
piece of property in the entire city or we want to make

3877
03:20:45,840 --> 03:20:48,000
sure that people can make as much money.

3878
03:20:48,000 --> 03:20:52,600
It's not our job as policymakers to make sure that they

3879
03:20:52,600 --> 03:20:54,000
make profit.

3880
03:20:54,000 --> 03:20:58,489
It's the philosophical question of where does government's

3881
03:20:58,489 --> 03:21:03,260
role stop and start because there are differing opinions on

3882
03:21:03,260 --> 03:21:10,000
whether or not the fracking is going to make the water

3883
03:21:10,000 --> 03:21:11,000
contaminated or the air.

3884
03:21:11,000 --> 03:21:15,649
You have an opinion and you're certainly rightly to have it

3885
03:21:15,649 --> 03:21:16,000
.

3886
03:21:16,000 --> 03:21:18,000
Other people have other opinions.

3887
03:21:18,000 --> 03:21:21,309
So then it just boils down to really if we impose 1,000

3888
03:21:21,309 --> 03:21:24,489
foot reverse setback on somebody's property, they've got

3889
03:21:24,489 --> 03:21:26,000
100 acres in their family.

3890
03:21:26,000 --> 03:21:28,000
There's a well on the site next to it.

3891
03:21:28,000 --> 03:21:31,000
We render their entire property unusable.

3892
03:21:31,000 --> 03:21:34,379
So my question is if you -- unless you own the property, I

3893
03:21:34,379 --> 03:21:37,690
don't know if that makes sense to you or to know what that

3894
03:21:37,690 --> 03:21:39,000
would feel like.

3895
03:21:39,000 --> 03:21:42,219
But do you -- I mean, do you know what we're dealing with

3896
03:21:42,219 --> 03:21:44,000
with that sort of dilemma?

3897
03:21:44,000 --> 03:21:47,479
I know it's a crappy situation all around and I know that

3898
03:21:47,479 --> 03:21:51,110
it's difficult to have to deal with the history of land use

3899
03:21:51,110 --> 03:21:53,629
in such a way that means that we might have to make really

3900
03:21:53,629 --> 03:21:55,000
unpopular decisions right now.

3901
03:21:55,000 --> 03:21:56,000
I get that.

3902
03:21:56,000 --> 03:21:57,000
I totally get that.

3903
03:21:57,000 --> 03:22:00,000
But this is about public policy making, right?

3904
03:22:00,000 --> 03:22:03,750
This is about making policy that governs an entire city and

3905
03:22:03,750 --> 03:22:06,000
everyone who lives in the city.

3906
03:22:06,000 --> 03:22:09,930
Remember that Tara Lynn just showed us that close to 50% of

3907
03:22:09,930 --> 03:22:13,000
people don't own land or homes here, right?

3908
03:22:13,000 --> 03:22:15,000
So those people still need to be protected.

3909
03:22:15,000 --> 03:22:18,079
I mean, I resist framing this issue in terms of individual

3910
03:22:18,079 --> 03:22:21,309
property rights because it's not about individual property

3911
03:22:21,309 --> 03:22:22,000
rights.

3912
03:22:22,000 --> 03:22:24,610
So it is right that this question of the limits of

3913
03:22:24,610 --> 03:22:26,000
government comes up.

3914
03:22:26,000 --> 03:22:28,000
But the way in which it comes up is important.

3915
03:22:28,000 --> 03:22:32,260
It comes up in terms of how is it that we ensure that most

3916
03:22:32,260 --> 03:22:36,799
people are not harmed by something that we already know to

3917
03:22:36,799 --> 03:22:38,000
be harmful.

3918
03:22:38,000 --> 03:22:42,000
So it's not just my opinion that fracking is dangerous.

3919
03:22:42,000 --> 03:22:43,000
It's not.

3920
03:22:43,000 --> 03:22:45,520
I mean, you can't argue with the fact that people who have

3921
03:22:45,520 --> 03:22:50,000
been living 250 feet from fracking activities are sick and

3922
03:22:50,000 --> 03:22:53,329
have been sick and got sick as soon as it happened, as soon

3923
03:22:53,329 --> 03:22:55,000
as the fracking started, right?

3924
03:22:55,000 --> 03:22:56,000
You can't argue with their experience.

3925
03:22:56,000 --> 03:22:58,579
You also can't argue with some of the studies that have

3926
03:22:58,579 --> 03:23:00,959
come out recently about the possibility of water

3927
03:23:00,959 --> 03:23:02,000
contamination.

3928
03:23:02,000 --> 03:23:05,120
You can't argue with the fact that Oklahoma has had 500%

3929
03:23:05,120 --> 03:23:08,000
increase in earthquakes because of injection wells.

3930
03:23:08,000 --> 03:23:11,049
So at some point, we stop arguing about opinions and we

3931
03:23:11,049 --> 03:23:13,000
start to talk in terms of facts.

3932
03:23:13,000 --> 03:23:16,059
So we can already start from the perspective that fracking

3933
03:23:16,059 --> 03:23:17,000
is dangerous.

3934
03:23:17,000 --> 03:23:19,590
Just like last week, you've done a fantastic job of

3935
03:23:19,590 --> 03:23:21,000
answering my question.

3936
03:23:21,000 --> 03:23:22,000
I do appreciate it.

3937
03:23:22,000 --> 03:23:26,000
There's one point still that I haven't very quickly.

3938
03:23:26,000 --> 03:23:28,000
You asked the question, sir.

3939
03:23:28,000 --> 03:23:30,000
Because it was a yes or no question.

3940
03:23:30,000 --> 03:23:31,000
This is a good question.

3941
03:23:31,000 --> 03:23:32,000
And actually, this is a question that's going to come up.

3942
03:23:32,000 --> 03:23:33,000
Yes, right.

3943
03:23:33,000 --> 03:23:34,000
Okay.

3944
03:23:34,000 --> 03:23:36,000
So this question of the limits of government, right?

3945
03:23:36,000 --> 03:23:38,690
So the government has already decided on one use for their

3946
03:23:38,690 --> 03:23:41,000
land, which is to develop minerals, right?

3947
03:23:41,000 --> 03:23:44,280
It's not an infringement on their rights to say that

3948
03:23:44,280 --> 03:23:47,809
because of that decision that was made, you can't use that

3949
03:23:47,809 --> 03:23:49,000
land for other things.

3950
03:23:49,000 --> 03:23:51,569
It's just like in the case when Dallas redeveloped the

3951
03:23:51,569 --> 03:23:54,620
Trinity River floodplain and they decided that the levees

3952
03:23:54,620 --> 03:23:57,000
needed to be farther out, right?

3953
03:23:57,000 --> 03:23:59,950
Other people had to get their land bought out because that

3954
03:23:59,950 --> 03:24:03,180
was considered to be a dangerous place to be living or to

3955
03:24:03,180 --> 03:24:05,000
have a business or other things like that.

3956
03:24:05,000 --> 03:24:07,450
So there are already situations where we recognize that

3957
03:24:07,450 --> 03:24:09,770
things are too dangerous to allow people to do certain

3958
03:24:09,770 --> 03:24:11,000
things with that land.

3959
03:24:11,000 --> 03:24:15,430
So what I want to follow up with though is do you remember

3960
03:24:15,430 --> 03:24:20,559
when you spoke very early on in this process and you talked

3961
03:24:20,559 --> 03:24:25,030
about the percentage of Denton surface owners who also own

3962
03:24:25,030 --> 03:24:26,000
the minerals?

3963
03:24:26,000 --> 03:24:27,000
Yeah.

3964
03:24:27,000 --> 03:24:28,000
What was that percentage?

3965
03:24:28,000 --> 03:24:30,510
Well, at the time I think I said it was 8 percent, but

3966
03:24:30,510 --> 03:24:33,000
actually on further study it's like 2 percent.

3967
03:24:33,000 --> 03:24:34,000
2 percent.

3968
03:24:34,000 --> 03:24:36,520
So in fact your argument that you just made about if they

3969
03:24:36,520 --> 03:24:39,129
sold their minerals they don't have a right to - it doesn't

3970
03:24:39,129 --> 03:24:40,000
jive, right?

3971
03:24:40,000 --> 03:24:44,000
So I'm just saying we can't have it both ways.

3972
03:24:44,000 --> 03:24:47,709
So because I think it's a mistake to paint the picture that

3973
03:24:47,709 --> 03:24:51,469
the person who owns the surface has already made his money

3974
03:24:51,469 --> 03:24:54,360
on the minerals and therefore that he doesn't have a right

3975
03:24:54,360 --> 03:24:58,159
to complain about the impact of the mineral acquisition on

3976
03:24:58,159 --> 03:24:59,000
his surface value

3977
03:24:59,000 --> 03:25:03,190
because less than 10 percent of the people in our city that

3978
03:25:03,190 --> 03:25:06,000
own the surface also own the minerals.

3979
03:25:06,000 --> 03:25:08,000
Those minerals were stripped off a long time ago.

3980
03:25:08,000 --> 03:25:11,000
So this person's rights are up here.

3981
03:25:11,000 --> 03:25:13,000
His value is up here.

3982
03:25:13,000 --> 03:25:15,750
It may be his value to hold it and give it to his

3983
03:25:15,750 --> 03:25:18,000
grandchildren or to develop it.

3984
03:25:18,000 --> 03:25:19,879
But you can't - in other words we can't paint the picture

3985
03:25:19,879 --> 03:25:21,000
both ways is all I'm saying.

3986
03:25:21,000 --> 03:25:23,000
So I appreciate your comments.

3987
03:25:23,000 --> 03:25:25,360
And that was not a question, but Ms. Briggs does have a

3988
03:25:25,360 --> 03:25:26,000
question.

3989
03:25:26,000 --> 03:25:27,000
Okay.

3990
03:25:27,000 --> 03:25:28,000
Well, I had a response, but okay.

3991
03:25:28,000 --> 03:25:30,000
I know you would.

3992
03:25:30,000 --> 03:25:32,000
But we - go ahead.

3993
03:25:32,000 --> 03:25:35,819
Well, mine is mostly whenever Councilman Hawkins was

3994
03:25:35,819 --> 03:25:40,209
talking about notifications or how do we advise that, the

3995
03:25:40,209 --> 03:25:43,370
image in my mind of getting a box of cigarettes that has

3996
03:25:43,370 --> 03:25:46,000
the big giant warning on it.

3997
03:25:46,000 --> 03:25:47,000
Surgeon general warning.

3998
03:25:47,000 --> 03:25:48,000
Yeah, right there.

3999
03:25:48,000 --> 03:25:50,329
Or when you're in a bar and you're in the bathroom and

4000
03:25:50,329 --> 03:25:53,250
there's like pregnant, don't do this, this, this and this,

4001
03:25:53,250 --> 03:25:54,000
you know.

4002
03:25:54,000 --> 03:25:57,530
I mean we're even told to wash our hands because of the

4003
03:25:57,530 --> 03:25:59,000
dangers of germs.

4004
03:25:59,000 --> 03:26:02,870
So I don't know how we would get that information out

4005
03:26:02,870 --> 03:26:06,920
because you can't put a sign - I mean you could put a sign

4006
03:26:06,920 --> 03:26:10,000
on the site, but I don't really know.

4007
03:26:10,000 --> 03:26:12,569
But that's the kind of image that popped into my head when

4008
03:26:12,569 --> 03:26:14,000
you were asking about that.

4009
03:26:14,000 --> 03:26:16,770
Yeah, something like a surgeon general's warning about fr

4010
03:26:16,770 --> 03:26:18,000
acking would be great.

4011
03:26:18,000 --> 03:26:19,000
Something like that.

4012
03:26:19,000 --> 03:26:20,000
Yeah.

4013
03:26:20,000 --> 03:26:21,000
All right.

4014
03:26:21,000 --> 03:26:22,000
That's all of the questions.

4015
03:26:22,000 --> 03:26:23,000
Thank you.

4016
03:26:23,000 --> 03:26:25,000
We have three more speakers.

4017
03:26:25,000 --> 03:26:28,770
Be mindful of your questions that you're asking because it

4018
03:26:28,770 --> 03:26:31,000
's coming up on 10 o'clock.

4019
03:26:31,000 --> 03:26:41,000
Rosemary Candelario and then Deborah Armator is on deck.

4020
03:26:41,000 --> 03:26:46,000
Rosemary Candelario and I live at 602 Woodland Street.

4021
03:26:46,000 --> 03:26:51,000
Our air and water, our health and safety, our Denton.

4022
03:26:51,000 --> 03:26:53,899
This simple slogan was at the heart of our campaign to ban

4023
03:26:53,899 --> 03:26:55,000
fracking in Denton.

4024
03:26:55,000 --> 03:26:58,389
Our priorities were and remain to make Denton a healthy and

4025
03:26:58,389 --> 03:27:02,000
sustainable city for all of our residents to live and grow.

4026
03:27:02,000 --> 03:27:05,600
In other words, we declared that we want Denton to be a

4027
03:27:05,600 --> 03:27:09,000
place guided by humanly reasonable standards.

4028
03:27:09,000 --> 03:27:12,280
The majority of Denton voters agreed last November that fr

4029
03:27:12,280 --> 03:27:15,690
acking within the city limits is incompatible with this goal

4030
03:27:15,690 --> 03:27:16,000
.

4031
03:27:16,000 --> 03:27:18,899
When HB40 nullified our ban and told us that we had to make

4032
03:27:18,899 --> 03:27:22,000
decisions instead based on what is commercially reasonable,

4033
03:27:22,000 --> 03:27:25,500
they stole from us our best means of protecting the health

4034
03:27:25,500 --> 03:27:28,840
and safety of all the people of Denton in addition to our

4035
03:27:28,840 --> 03:27:30,000
air and water.

4036
03:27:30,000 --> 03:27:32,899
In effect, this leaves our gas well ordinance as a last

4037
03:27:32,899 --> 03:27:34,000
line of defense.

4038
03:27:34,000 --> 03:27:37,000
And this is really what's at stake here tonight, I think.

4039
03:27:37,000 --> 03:27:40,479
Nothing less than the question of Denton will insist upon

4040
03:27:40,479 --> 03:27:44,000
being humanly reasonable or merely commercially so.

4041
03:27:44,000 --> 03:27:47,030
I believe that what you do here on the City Council is not

4042
03:27:47,030 --> 03:27:50,000
only to represent and serve all the people of Denton,

4043
03:27:50,000 --> 03:27:53,010
but also to do everything in your power to protect the well

4044
03:27:53,010 --> 03:27:55,000
-being of all Denton's residents,

4045
03:27:55,000 --> 03:27:58,040
not only the interests of industry or of developers or of

4046
03:27:58,040 --> 03:27:59,000
property owners.

4047
03:27:59,000 --> 03:28:02,649
And a number of people have already spoken quite eloquently

4048
03:28:02,649 --> 03:28:05,000
about the rights of renters in Denton.

4049
03:28:05,000 --> 03:28:08,729
And I appreciate everything you've said in response to that

4050
03:28:08,729 --> 03:28:09,000
.

4051
03:28:09,000 --> 03:28:11,610
But I am really concerned, however, that the current

4052
03:28:11,610 --> 03:28:14,280
proposal leaves the people of Denton in a worse position

4053
03:28:14,280 --> 03:28:16,000
than we were in 2013.

4054
03:28:16,000 --> 03:28:18,899
And I joined the course of other Denton residents calling

4055
03:28:18,899 --> 03:28:22,510
for no reduction in setbacks from the 2013 levels, not even

4056
03:28:22,510 --> 03:28:24,000
in industrial zones.

4057
03:28:24,000 --> 03:28:26,899
I believe the City Council owes it to us, your constituents

4058
03:28:26,899 --> 03:28:31,069
who voted overwhelmingly to ban fracking, to protect as

4059
03:28:31,069 --> 03:28:34,000
much of the city as possible under HB40.

4060
03:28:34,000 --> 03:28:36,899
Our 1,200-foot setbacks are still less than Dallas and

4061
03:28:36,899 --> 03:28:39,000
Flower Mound's 1,500-foot setbacks,

4062
03:28:39,000 --> 03:28:41,899
which had a record of being commercially reasonable even

4063
03:28:41,899 --> 03:28:44,000
before that term set the new standard.

4064
03:28:44,000 --> 03:28:46,680
I also want to reiterate the call for reverse setbacks to

4065
03:28:46,680 --> 03:28:49,000
not be lower than production site setbacks.

4066
03:28:49,000 --> 03:28:52,000
How can something that's unsafe at a particular level,

4067
03:28:52,000 --> 03:28:54,989
whether that's 1,000 feet or 1,200 feet, suddenly be safe

4068
03:28:54,989 --> 03:28:59,020
at a distance of 250 feet just because a developer wants to

4069
03:28:59,020 --> 03:29:00,000
build there?

4070
03:29:00,000 --> 03:29:04,340
Again, we must be guided by the principle of what is human

4071
03:29:04,340 --> 03:29:09,000
ly reasonable, not just what is commercially possible.

4072
03:29:09,000 --> 03:29:11,510
And along those lines, I did have one question about the

4073
03:29:11,510 --> 03:29:13,000
notice activities section.

4074
03:29:13,000 --> 03:29:16,860
I'm really glad to hear that people are concerned with not

4075
03:29:16,860 --> 03:29:20,000
ifying tenants when drilling is happening.

4076
03:29:20,000 --> 03:29:24,049
But I'm concerned about the notifications in the ordinance

4077
03:29:24,049 --> 03:29:27,370
about that operators have to give prior to filing

4078
03:29:27,370 --> 03:29:31,340
applications for approval of gas well development site

4079
03:29:31,340 --> 03:29:32,000
plans.

4080
03:29:32,000 --> 03:29:35,379
My understanding is that that is still just limited to not

4081
03:29:35,379 --> 03:29:37,000
ifying property owners.

4082
03:29:37,000 --> 03:29:39,000
So I'd like to hear more about that.

4083
03:29:39,000 --> 03:29:41,790
And finally, I do want to echo calls for simple and

4084
03:29:41,790 --> 03:29:45,000
effective means to monitor the impact these commercially,

4085
03:29:45,000 --> 03:29:47,950
quote unquote, commercially reasonable fracking practices

4086
03:29:47,950 --> 03:29:50,409
has on the air, water, health, and safety of Denton

4087
03:29:50,409 --> 03:29:51,000
residents.

4088
03:29:51,000 --> 03:29:53,709
Like they sign air and water testing paid for by industry

4089
03:29:53,709 --> 03:29:57,459
pre and post fracking and air quality monitors so that we

4090
03:29:57,459 --> 03:30:00,559
confirm that they are actually operating within existing

4091
03:30:00,559 --> 03:30:02,000
state and federal laws.

4092
03:30:02,000 --> 03:30:04,510
And I think these are all simple but powerful amendments

4093
03:30:04,510 --> 03:30:06,709
the city council can take to ensure that Denton is a

4094
03:30:06,709 --> 03:30:09,209
reasonable place for humans and not just for commercial

4095
03:30:09,209 --> 03:30:10,000
interests.

4096
03:30:10,000 --> 03:30:11,000
Thank you.

4097
03:30:11,000 --> 03:30:15,000
Thank you very much.

4098
03:30:15,000 --> 03:30:21,000
And the last speaker would be Earl Bates.

4099
03:30:21,000 --> 03:30:25,629
Hi, I'm Deborah Armitar and I live at 2003 Mistywood Lane

4100
03:30:25,629 --> 03:30:27,000
here in Denton.

4101
03:30:27,000 --> 03:30:32,510
I wanted to begin just by speaking to something that came

4102
03:30:32,510 --> 03:30:39,000
up recently, the subject of the rights of service owners.

4103
03:30:39,000 --> 03:30:43,909
And I once saw a quote, I don't remember where I heard or

4104
03:30:43,909 --> 03:30:49,000
saw this, but I believe this very deeply and that is that

4105
03:30:49,000 --> 03:30:54,000
your rights or one's rights end at my face.

4106
03:30:54,000 --> 03:30:58,549
That is to say, your rights or any service owner's rights

4107
03:30:58,549 --> 03:31:01,000
end where my health begins.

4108
03:31:01,000 --> 03:31:09,000
I don't mean me, just me, I mean any individual's health.

4109
03:31:09,000 --> 03:31:13,659
So I believe that that's the answer to the question about

4110
03:31:13,659 --> 03:31:16,000
service owner's rights.

4111
03:31:16,000 --> 03:31:18,000
Of course they have rights.

4112
03:31:18,000 --> 03:31:21,700
But if something that they believe to be their rights is

4113
03:31:21,700 --> 03:31:26,000
damaging somebody else, then that's not a right of theirs.

4114
03:31:26,000 --> 03:31:30,000
It's actually an infringement on somebody else's rights.

4115
03:31:30,000 --> 03:31:36,559
I want to say that if our ordinance is indeed a zoning

4116
03:31:36,559 --> 03:31:42,819
ordinance, which means that everything is subject to the Z

4117
03:31:42,819 --> 03:31:45,000
oning Board of Adjustment,

4118
03:31:45,000 --> 03:31:48,729
then I would like to see our city charter eventually

4119
03:31:48,729 --> 03:31:53,000
changed to make the Zoning Board of Adjustment an elected

4120
03:31:53,000 --> 03:31:53,000
body,

4121
03:31:53,000 --> 03:31:58,840
so that it can be accountable to citizens if it indeed has

4122
03:31:58,840 --> 03:32:04,000
the power to make such significant decisions.

4123
03:32:04,000 --> 03:32:07,700
I also want to say that even though state law might have

4124
03:32:07,700 --> 03:32:11,000
these certain requirements for a zoning ordinance,

4125
03:32:11,000 --> 03:32:15,569
I don't believe that state law says anything about var

4126
03:32:15,569 --> 03:32:19,000
iances in setbacks being mandatory.

4127
03:32:19,000 --> 03:32:22,399
That's up to us to decide, as I understand it, whether we

4128
03:32:22,399 --> 03:32:27,069
want to have variances in our ordinance, and I believe we

4129
03:32:27,069 --> 03:32:29,000
should not.

4130
03:32:29,000 --> 03:32:34,000
The way that I think of it is like this.

4131
03:32:34,000 --> 03:32:41,819
If a pedophile wants to live within two blocks of a school

4132
03:32:41,819 --> 03:32:49,549
and there's a law that says, say, he has to live a great

4133
03:32:49,549 --> 03:32:52,000
distance away,

4134
03:32:52,000 --> 03:32:57,840
that pedophile shouldn't be able to negotiate with any

4135
03:32:57,840 --> 03:33:03,690
special board to be able to move closer to the school for

4136
03:33:03,690 --> 03:33:06,000
any given reason.

4137
03:33:06,000 --> 03:33:13,139
Now, I understand that industry providers are not actually

4138
03:33:13,139 --> 03:33:18,700
trying to harm people, so I don't mean to say that they are

4139
03:33:18,700 --> 03:33:20,000
pedophiles.

4140
03:33:20,000 --> 03:33:24,899
And again, many pedophiles also aren't intending to harm

4141
03:33:24,899 --> 03:33:26,000
anybody.

4142
03:33:26,000 --> 03:33:28,000
They're just sick individuals.

4143
03:33:28,000 --> 03:33:30,000
They have a disease.

4144
03:33:30,000 --> 03:33:33,000
And fracking, I see, is a disease.

4145
03:33:33,000 --> 03:33:38,250
And so we need to, you need to, we're pleading with you to

4146
03:33:38,250 --> 03:33:44,340
protect our children from the disease of fracking in this

4147
03:33:44,340 --> 03:33:45,000
way.

4148
03:33:45,000 --> 03:33:47,000
Thank you very much.

4149
03:33:47,000 --> 03:33:53,000
Earl Bates.

4150
03:33:53,000 --> 03:33:56,000
Last but not least, thank you all for your good work.

4151
03:33:56,000 --> 03:33:57,000
My name's Earl Bates.

4152
03:33:57,000 --> 03:34:01,000
I'm about at 5163 Shaw Lane.

4153
03:34:01,000 --> 03:34:02,000
I'm from Omaha, Nebraska.

4154
03:34:02,000 --> 03:34:04,000
I'm here for about six years.

4155
03:34:04,000 --> 03:34:09,579
And I'm here because I was so inspired by Tara Lynn and by

4156
03:34:09,579 --> 03:34:14,239
Cindy and Ron and all these good people that did this band

4157
03:34:14,239 --> 03:34:15,000
thing.

4158
03:34:15,000 --> 03:34:17,000
I thought that was fantastic.

4159
03:34:17,000 --> 03:34:20,219
I know how we're fighting our own battles up there about

4160
03:34:20,219 --> 03:34:23,000
the Keystone Pipeline and things like that.

4161
03:34:23,000 --> 03:34:25,000
So many people here have come up with so many good details.

4162
03:34:25,000 --> 03:34:27,000
I can't get into all that.

4163
03:34:27,000 --> 03:34:31,010
It just, I can't wrap my head around all the, you know, the

4164
03:34:31,010 --> 03:34:32,000
setbacks.

4165
03:34:32,000 --> 03:34:36,530
And I just wanted to talk about the spirit, the spirit of

4166
03:34:36,530 --> 03:34:40,000
what these folks have been trying to do.

4167
03:34:40,000 --> 03:34:41,000
I'm not a Texan.

4168
03:34:41,000 --> 03:34:42,000
I don't pretend to be.

4169
03:34:42,000 --> 03:34:44,250
It's a great part of the world, though, and I'm glad to be

4170
03:34:44,250 --> 03:34:45,000
around here.

4171
03:34:45,000 --> 03:34:50,000
But I was so inspired by their good work.

4172
03:34:50,000 --> 03:34:51,000
I was elated.

4173
03:34:51,000 --> 03:34:54,000
I couldn't believe how could they possibly do this?

4174
03:34:54,000 --> 03:34:55,000
How did you do it?

4175
03:34:55,000 --> 03:34:56,000
And they did it.

4176
03:34:56,000 --> 03:34:58,000
And then what?

4177
03:34:58,000 --> 03:35:02,000
It's not about the money.

4178
03:35:02,000 --> 03:35:05,000
It's not about the money.

4179
03:35:05,000 --> 03:35:07,000
Well, it's all about the money.

4180
03:35:07,000 --> 03:35:13,000
And the Texas legislature pooped on these guys.

4181
03:35:13,000 --> 03:35:16,000
And I don't want to be, you know, I'm just here to say,

4182
03:35:16,000 --> 03:35:20,000
please think about the spirit of their good, hard work.

4183
03:35:20,000 --> 03:35:24,000
And I would say to you, if I may, your work now should be,

4184
03:35:24,000 --> 03:35:26,000
since they voted for a ban,

4185
03:35:26,000 --> 03:35:29,379
I would think that the city council would do everything in

4186
03:35:29,379 --> 03:35:33,000
its power to make it hard to frack around here,

4187
03:35:33,000 --> 03:35:36,860
to make it almost, you know, within the confines of the

4188
03:35:36,860 --> 03:35:38,000
bill itself.

4189
03:35:38,000 --> 03:35:40,000
Your job is to say, that's right.

4190
03:35:40,000 --> 03:35:43,209
They don't like it, so let's do everything we can to

4191
03:35:43,209 --> 03:35:45,000
restrict this fracking.

4192
03:35:45,000 --> 03:35:46,000
And it's not about the money.

4193
03:35:46,000 --> 03:35:48,899
Well, if we don't want to infringe on these good people

4194
03:35:48,899 --> 03:35:50,000
that own property,

4195
03:35:50,000 --> 03:35:54,530
I would suggest that this council and the good people here

4196
03:35:54,530 --> 03:35:58,000
do everything we can to repeal HB 40.

4197
03:35:58,000 --> 03:36:00,000
Let's go there, too.

4198
03:36:00,000 --> 03:36:01,000
No fracking.

4199
03:36:01,000 --> 03:36:07,000
Let's let the folks have their property rights.

4200
03:36:07,000 --> 03:36:09,000
We had a story.

4201
03:36:09,000 --> 03:36:10,000
Tara Lynn said it.

4202
03:36:10,000 --> 03:36:12,000
She said we had a story.

4203
03:36:12,000 --> 03:36:17,129
And before the ban was taken back, we had a great story

4204
03:36:17,129 --> 03:36:18,000
here.

4205
03:36:18,000 --> 03:36:21,000
Where'd that story go?

4206
03:36:21,000 --> 03:36:22,000
Where'd it go?

4207
03:36:22,000 --> 03:36:24,000
I'm hearing all these details.

4208
03:36:24,000 --> 03:36:25,000
Well, we're missing a point.

4209
03:36:25,000 --> 03:36:29,000
The point is fracking is not a good thing.

4210
03:36:29,000 --> 03:36:31,000
We need the gas, we need the oil, sure, for now.

4211
03:36:31,000 --> 03:36:33,000
We'll fix that later.

4212
03:36:33,000 --> 03:36:36,000
But all I can say is we're going in the wrong direction,

4213
03:36:36,000 --> 03:36:41,100
and I think the best thing that this council can do is to

4214
03:36:41,100 --> 03:36:42,000
look into your hearts

4215
03:36:42,000 --> 03:36:45,000
and listen to what the people have said here.

4216
03:36:45,000 --> 03:36:46,520
The people that have inspired the heck out of me -- and you

4217
03:36:46,520 --> 03:36:48,000
guys inspired me, too.

4218
03:36:48,000 --> 03:36:49,000
This is hard work.

4219
03:36:49,000 --> 03:36:50,000
I know it is.

4220
03:36:50,000 --> 03:36:53,549
My head is spinning right now because I can't keep up with

4221
03:36:53,549 --> 03:36:55,000
all these details.

4222
03:36:55,000 --> 03:37:01,000
But the best thing you can do within our situation now is

4223
03:37:01,000 --> 03:37:03,000
within the law,

4224
03:37:03,000 --> 03:37:06,549
do what you can to restrict this fracking, whatever it

4225
03:37:06,549 --> 03:37:07,000
takes.

4226
03:37:07,000 --> 03:37:11,479
And like Will Rogers said, never miss a good chance to shut

4227
03:37:11,479 --> 03:37:12,000
up.

4228
03:37:12,000 --> 03:37:13,000
Thank you all.

4229
03:37:13,000 --> 03:37:16,000
[ Applause ]

4230
03:37:16,000 --> 03:37:17,000
Oh, there is a question, sir.

4231
03:37:17,000 --> 03:37:18,000
Yes.

4232
03:37:18,000 --> 03:37:19,000
Mr. Hawkins.

4233
03:37:19,000 --> 03:37:21,000
I got a chance to talk to you last week, and I enjoyed it.

4234
03:37:21,000 --> 03:37:22,000
Yes.

4235
03:37:22,000 --> 03:37:24,409
And I appreciate you moving from somewhere else and caring

4236
03:37:24,409 --> 03:37:26,000
about Denton and all that.

4237
03:37:26,000 --> 03:37:29,479
I promise you all I'm trying to do up here is figuring out,

4238
03:37:29,479 --> 03:37:30,000
like you said,

4239
03:37:30,000 --> 03:37:34,959
within the law and everything in our power how far we can

4240
03:37:34,959 --> 03:37:36,000
push it.

4241
03:37:36,000 --> 03:37:37,000
That's all I'm trying to do up here.

4242
03:37:37,000 --> 03:37:39,000
That's all anybody can ask right now.

4243
03:37:39,000 --> 03:37:40,000
Okay.

4244
03:37:40,000 --> 03:37:41,000
The next step is to --

4245
03:37:41,000 --> 03:37:42,000
No, it's not a question, but --

4246
03:37:42,000 --> 03:37:43,000
Yeah.

4247
03:37:43,000 --> 03:37:45,000
And I appreciate what you said and the spirit and all that.

4248
03:37:45,000 --> 03:37:46,000
So thank you.

4249
03:37:46,000 --> 03:37:48,250
Thank you, Mr. Bates, and thank you for admitting that you

4250
03:37:48,250 --> 03:37:49,000
're from another state.

4251
03:37:49,000 --> 03:37:52,500
You know, there's an old saying, never ask a man where he's

4252
03:37:52,500 --> 03:37:53,000
from.

4253
03:37:53,000 --> 03:37:55,959
If he's from Texas, he'll tell you, and if he's not, why

4254
03:37:55,959 --> 03:37:57,000
embarrass him?

4255
03:37:57,000 --> 03:37:59,000
[ Laughter ]

4256
03:37:59,000 --> 03:38:01,000
So you embarrassed yourself.

4257
03:38:01,000 --> 03:38:03,000
But thank you very much for your comments.

4258
03:38:03,000 --> 03:38:04,000
Okay.

4259
03:38:04,000 --> 03:38:05,000
Thanks for your --

4260
03:38:05,000 --> 03:38:06,000
All right.

4261
03:38:06,000 --> 03:38:07,649
That is all of the people that have indicated a desire to

4262
03:38:07,649 --> 03:38:08,000
speak.

4263
03:38:08,000 --> 03:38:11,239
We have several people that have filled out cards, and I

4264
03:38:11,239 --> 03:38:13,000
will read those into the record.

4265
03:38:13,000 --> 03:38:18,120
And I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them out

4266
03:38:18,120 --> 03:38:19,000
loud.

4267
03:38:19,000 --> 03:38:22,000
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4268
03:38:22,000 --> 03:38:24,000
out loud, and then I'll read them out loud.

4269
03:38:24,000 --> 03:38:26,469
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4270
03:38:26,469 --> 03:38:29,000
out loud, and then I'll read them out loud.

4271
03:38:29,000 --> 03:38:31,469
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4272
03:38:31,469 --> 03:38:34,000
out loud, and then I'll read them out loud.

4273
03:38:34,000 --> 03:38:37,280
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4274
03:38:37,280 --> 03:38:38,000
out loud, and then I'll read them out loud.

4275
03:38:38,000 --> 03:38:40,000
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4276
03:38:40,000 --> 03:38:42,040
out loud, and then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll

4277
03:38:42,040 --> 03:38:43,000
read them out loud.

4278
03:38:43,000 --> 03:38:45,129
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4279
03:38:45,129 --> 03:38:47,000
out loud, and then I'll read them out loud.

4280
03:38:47,000 --> 03:38:49,129
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4281
03:38:49,129 --> 03:38:51,000
out loud, and then I'll read them out loud.

4282
03:38:51,000 --> 03:38:53,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4283
03:38:53,420 --> 03:38:54,000
out loud.

4284
03:38:54,000 --> 03:38:56,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4285
03:38:56,420 --> 03:38:57,000
out loud.

4286
03:38:57,000 --> 03:38:59,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4287
03:38:59,420 --> 03:39:00,000
out loud.

4288
03:39:00,000 --> 03:39:02,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4289
03:39:02,420 --> 03:39:03,000
out loud.

4290
03:39:03,000 --> 03:39:05,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4291
03:39:05,420 --> 03:39:06,000
out loud.

4292
03:39:06,000 --> 03:39:08,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4293
03:39:08,420 --> 03:39:09,000
out loud.

4294
03:39:09,000 --> 03:39:11,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4295
03:39:11,420 --> 03:39:12,000
out loud.

4296
03:39:12,000 --> 03:39:14,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4297
03:39:14,420 --> 03:39:15,000
out loud.

4298
03:39:15,000 --> 03:39:17,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4299
03:39:17,420 --> 03:39:18,000
out loud.

4300
03:39:18,000 --> 03:39:20,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4301
03:39:20,420 --> 03:39:21,000
out loud.

4302
03:39:21,000 --> 03:39:23,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4303
03:39:23,420 --> 03:39:24,000
out loud.

4304
03:39:24,000 --> 03:39:26,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4305
03:39:26,420 --> 03:39:27,000
out loud.

4306
03:39:27,000 --> 03:39:29,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4307
03:39:29,420 --> 03:39:30,000
out loud.

4308
03:39:30,000 --> 03:39:32,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4309
03:39:32,420 --> 03:39:33,000
out loud.

4310
03:39:33,000 --> 03:39:35,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4311
03:39:35,420 --> 03:39:36,000
out loud.

4312
03:39:36,000 --> 03:39:38,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4313
03:39:38,420 --> 03:39:39,000
out loud.

4314
03:39:39,000 --> 03:39:41,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4315
03:39:41,420 --> 03:39:42,000
out loud.

4316
03:39:42,000 --> 03:39:44,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4317
03:39:44,420 --> 03:39:45,000
out loud.

4318
03:39:45,000 --> 03:39:47,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4319
03:39:47,420 --> 03:39:48,000
out loud.

4320
03:39:48,000 --> 03:39:50,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4321
03:39:50,420 --> 03:39:51,000
out loud.

4322
03:39:51,000 --> 03:39:53,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4323
03:39:53,420 --> 03:39:54,000
out loud.

4324
03:39:54,000 --> 03:39:56,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4325
03:39:56,420 --> 03:39:57,000
out loud.

4326
03:39:57,000 --> 03:39:59,420
And then I'll read them out loud, and then I'll read them

4327
03:39:59,420 --> 03:40:00,000
out loud.

4328
03:40:00,000 --> 03:40:06,219
Opposed saying that sentbacks should equal 1,000 feet,

4329
03:40:06,219 --> 03:40:13,000
reverse sentbacks 1,000 feet, show some backbone.

4330
03:40:13,000 --> 03:40:20,239
Allison Trapp, opposed, should not support this weakened

4331
03:40:20,239 --> 03:40:23,000
ordinance tonight.

4332
03:40:23,000 --> 03:40:27,530
Rhonda Love, opposed, allowing oil and gas development

4333
03:40:27,530 --> 03:40:33,799
within 250 feet of homes and other spaces such as hospitals

4334
03:40:33,799 --> 03:40:37,000
, parks, et cetera, is simply unsafe.

4335
03:40:37,000 --> 03:40:41,299
Adam Briegel, in support, please increase residential

4336
03:40:41,299 --> 03:40:43,000
reverse setbacks.

4337
03:40:43,000 --> 03:40:48,579
Please disclose presence and risk of gas wells to all

4338
03:40:48,579 --> 03:40:52,000
residents, not just owners.

4339
03:40:52,000 --> 03:40:57,000
Please protect future residents of MPCs and PDs.

4340
03:40:57,000 --> 03:41:06,170
Justin Lemons, in opposition, please have disenchanted

4341
03:41:06,170 --> 03:41:10,920
developers slip their complaints into the suggestion box of

4342
03:41:10,920 --> 03:41:13,000
the oil and gas industry.

4343
03:41:13,000 --> 03:41:20,309
And Diane Robinson, opposed, I'm opposed to the change in

4344
03:41:20,309 --> 03:41:25,000
setbacks. Please be brave. Keep it as it is at 1,200 feet.

4345
03:41:25,000 --> 03:41:31,739
Those are all of the comments. There is a motion on the

4346
03:41:31,739 --> 03:41:33,000
board.

4347
03:41:33,000 --> 03:41:36,000
Ms. Briggs.

4348
03:41:36,000 --> 03:41:43,000
He requested to speak first.

4349
03:41:43,000 --> 03:41:45,000
Mr. Rudden.

4350
03:41:45,000 --> 03:41:47,920
That's all right. I appreciate it. What a great

4351
03:41:47,920 --> 03:41:50,000
conversation tonight.

4352
03:41:50,000 --> 03:41:54,000
Very impressed all along this process.

4353
03:41:54,000 --> 03:41:56,000
I mean, it's been several years.

4354
03:41:56,000 --> 03:42:00,000
And I'm constantly impressed by the intelligence, the

4355
03:42:00,000 --> 03:42:04,200
passion of our community and just the civil dialogue we've

4356
03:42:04,200 --> 03:42:08,000
been able to foster just while we've been up here.

4357
03:42:08,000 --> 03:42:11,000
It's a highly charged issue on all sides.

4358
03:42:11,000 --> 03:42:14,250
But I just want to say I appreciate everyone involved and

4359
03:42:14,250 --> 03:42:18,000
thank you for coming and continually participating in this.

4360
03:42:18,000 --> 03:42:22,000
This reverse setback issue is quite a difficult issue.

4361
03:42:22,000 --> 03:42:25,280
We have found ourselves unable to regulate the industry the

4362
03:42:25,280 --> 03:42:28,000
way we want to be able to regulate it as cities.

4363
03:42:28,000 --> 03:42:33,379
The state made sure of that during their legislative

4364
03:42:33,379 --> 03:42:34,000
session.

4365
03:42:34,000 --> 03:42:37,860
And it becomes difficult to say because we can't regulate

4366
03:42:37,860 --> 03:42:40,459
this industry, all of a sudden we're going to put the

4367
03:42:40,459 --> 03:42:44,000
burden of that onto a completely different and unrelated

4368
03:42:44,000 --> 03:42:45,000
industry,

4369
03:42:45,000 --> 03:42:47,250
which would be the surface owners and property owners in

4370
03:42:47,250 --> 03:42:48,000
the community.

4371
03:42:48,000 --> 03:42:54,149
That's a philosophically that is a very difficult, strange

4372
03:42:54,149 --> 03:42:57,000
dilemma to be in as a city.

4373
03:42:57,000 --> 03:42:58,000
And so I just put that out there.

4374
03:42:58,000 --> 03:43:00,899
We understand that's a difficult issue and that's why we're

4375
03:43:00,899 --> 03:43:03,579
all struggling with it on this question because it's been

4376
03:43:03,579 --> 03:43:09,340
raised as to the fire marshals comfort level with the

4377
03:43:09,340 --> 03:43:13,000
current ordinance as proposed.

4378
03:43:13,000 --> 03:43:17,290
Given this discussion about the 300 foot zone by which they

4379
03:43:17,290 --> 03:43:20,840
feel comfortable reacting to issues, particularly as it

4380
03:43:20,840 --> 03:43:23,000
relates to the Department of Transportation's

4381
03:43:23,000 --> 03:43:30,000
recommendations on certain types of chemical spills.

4382
03:43:30,000 --> 03:43:32,000
So I just want to clarify on that issue.

4383
03:43:32,000 --> 03:43:35,489
While we do have a proposed and I guess this is for Darren,

4384
03:43:35,489 --> 03:43:38,909
maybe legal can jump in. I just want to clarify this and

4385
03:43:38,909 --> 03:43:42,340
clarify the comfort level of our fire chief and fire mars

4386
03:43:42,340 --> 03:43:45,000
hal on this because it's been raised.

4387
03:43:45,000 --> 03:43:50,729
While we do have a 250 foot reverse setback in all the

4388
03:43:50,729 --> 03:43:55,280
categories, we have this effective 300 foot setback based

4389
03:43:55,280 --> 03:43:58,530
on where we're making measurements to in order to create a

4390
03:43:58,530 --> 03:44:01,000
buffer zone from combustible sources within a pad

4391
03:44:01,000 --> 03:44:05,239
site to the edge of a property in order to achieve that 300

4392
03:44:05,239 --> 03:44:08,000
foot buffer that's been talked about.

4393
03:44:08,000 --> 03:44:13,000
And we talked about that earlier on in the evening.

4394
03:44:13,000 --> 03:44:17,190
Can somebody clarify maybe the fire chiefs here that the

4395
03:44:17,190 --> 03:44:21,040
fire chief, the fire marshal is comfortable with the

4396
03:44:21,040 --> 03:44:25,510
ordinance as written with that new 300 foot effective

4397
03:44:25,510 --> 03:44:28,000
reverse setback provision.

4398
03:44:28,000 --> 03:44:33,120
That's correct. While a lot of the material that's

4399
03:44:33,120 --> 03:44:38,579
distributed lists the 250 foot distance, what we've crafted

4400
03:44:38,579 --> 03:44:43,729
into this ordinance and this particular final draft is an

4401
03:44:43,729 --> 03:44:50,000
effective 300 feet that achieves our safety goal of 300

4402
03:44:50,000 --> 03:44:52,000
feet as the minimum even on setback.

4403
03:44:52,000 --> 03:44:57,850
So basically there are options that are available to reach

4404
03:44:57,850 --> 03:45:03,350
that and depending upon where they measure from and it

4405
03:45:03,350 --> 03:45:08,389
would include putting combustibles and stored product

4406
03:45:08,389 --> 03:45:12,000
further to the center of the pad to create part of that

4407
03:45:12,000 --> 03:45:18,000
distance or it can mean pushing the developed structure

4408
03:45:18,000 --> 03:45:21,000
back further onto a lot that's encroaching onto this zone.

4409
03:45:21,000 --> 03:45:27,000
But effectively, we achieve the 300 foot minimum goal.

4410
03:45:27,000 --> 03:45:32,000
Thank you for clarifying.

4411
03:45:32,000 --> 03:45:34,000
Are you done.

4412
03:45:34,000 --> 03:45:40,000
Okay, the next person was Ms Briggs to make him up. Oh, yes

4413
03:45:40,000 --> 03:45:41,000
.

4414
03:45:41,000 --> 03:45:45,059
Mr Mayor pro tem if I if you would allow me to offer a

4415
03:45:45,059 --> 03:45:49,409
little bit of a roadmap on the ordinance here I think I

4416
03:45:49,409 --> 03:45:54,000
could facilitate the discussion just a little bit.

4417
03:45:54,000 --> 03:45:58,000
And also for the purpose of the listening public.

4418
03:45:58,000 --> 03:46:02,239
I think I can help you understand what we're what we're

4419
03:46:02,239 --> 03:46:04,000
doing here tonight to.

4420
03:46:04,000 --> 03:46:08,770
We do ask tonight that you act if you move forward and as

4421
03:46:08,770 --> 03:46:13,879
you consider this on the substitute cover ordinance this

4422
03:46:13,879 --> 03:46:18,680
cover ordinance really is the whereas clauses and the

4423
03:46:18,680 --> 03:46:20,000
findings.

4424
03:46:20,000 --> 03:46:23,149
It's not necessarily the substantive piece, but we do ask

4425
03:46:23,149 --> 03:46:26,000
that you act on the substituted cover ordinance.

4426
03:46:26,000 --> 03:46:32,129
And additionally, while we've been on the dais, Aaron Liao

4427
03:46:32,129 --> 03:46:37,379
from my office has prepared and cleaned up these sections

4428
03:46:37,379 --> 03:46:40,000
in the underlying ordinance.

4429
03:46:40,000 --> 03:46:43,760
They are consistent with this addendum list that you saw

4430
03:46:43,760 --> 03:46:47,680
earlier today and that members of the public have picked up

4431
03:46:47,680 --> 03:46:50,000
outside the council chambers.

4432
03:46:50,000 --> 03:46:54,409
So what we've done is a nice cleanup and we've got copies

4433
03:46:54,409 --> 03:46:59,170
of all the substitute section sections that are referenced

4434
03:46:59,170 --> 03:47:01,000
in this addendum.

4435
03:47:01,000 --> 03:47:04,700
And so what you will do is you move forward depending on

4436
03:47:04,700 --> 03:47:07,000
how you're going to vote on it.

4437
03:47:07,000 --> 03:47:10,280
You would look at this as a package and substitute these

4438
03:47:10,280 --> 03:47:13,739
sections in your for the sections that are actually in the

4439
03:47:13,739 --> 03:47:15,000
book before you.

4440
03:47:15,000 --> 03:47:19,190
So that help a little bit as far as is where you need to go

4441
03:47:19,190 --> 03:47:22,000
with this.

4442
03:47:22,000 --> 03:47:25,000
This brings.

4443
03:47:25,000 --> 03:47:27,000
My motion.

4444
03:47:27,000 --> 03:47:28,000
Yes.

4445
03:47:28,000 --> 03:47:29,000
Okay.

4446
03:47:29,000 --> 03:47:35,000
Well, I think that we were wanting to vote on this tonight.

4447
03:47:35,000 --> 03:47:39,229
But my motion is that we postpone it until our mayor can be

4448
03:47:39,229 --> 03:47:43,200
here because I believe that we need a full council for

4449
03:47:43,200 --> 03:47:47,239
something this serious that's going to affect a lot of

4450
03:47:47,239 --> 03:47:49,000
different people.

4451
03:47:49,000 --> 03:47:50,000
Okay.

4452
03:47:50,000 --> 03:47:53,829
There's a motion to postpone to an event certain, which is

4453
03:47:53,829 --> 03:47:56,000
the appearance of the mayor.

4454
03:47:56,000 --> 03:47:59,000
Is there a second.

4455
03:47:59,000 --> 03:48:02,000
Is there a second.

4456
03:48:02,000 --> 03:48:05,000
There is no second. So that motion fails.

4457
03:48:05,000 --> 03:48:07,000
Mr. Hawkins.

4458
03:48:07,000 --> 03:48:08,000
Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem.

4459
03:48:08,000 --> 03:48:10,489
Just I was going to kind of piggyback on what Kevin said

4460
03:48:10,489 --> 03:48:12,000
about the reverse setback.

4461
03:48:12,000 --> 03:48:16,340
I think that there are many surface owners out there who

4462
03:48:16,340 --> 03:48:21,000
probably did vote for the man and just under House Bill 40.

4463
03:48:21,000 --> 03:48:24,000
I don't necessarily think you all are against each other.

4464
03:48:24,000 --> 03:48:27,489
But the struggle is for me at least is with the reverse set

4465
03:48:27,489 --> 03:48:31,000
back, the notification process and just on record.

4466
03:48:31,000 --> 03:48:35,709
You know, that 300 foot separation between combustible and

4467
03:48:35,709 --> 03:48:37,000
protected use.

4468
03:48:37,000 --> 03:48:41,319
And just if you can clarify, Darren, if they were to add a

4469
03:48:41,319 --> 03:48:46,090
second storage tank or anything else after that 300 foot

4470
03:48:46,090 --> 03:48:50,260
distance is measured, they would have to abide by that with

4471
03:48:50,260 --> 03:48:52,000
additional equipment.

4472
03:48:52,000 --> 03:48:53,000
Is that that's correct?

4473
03:48:53,000 --> 03:48:54,000
That is correct.

4474
03:48:54,000 --> 03:48:56,420
There's a new proposal that would apply not only to the

4475
03:48:56,420 --> 03:48:59,120
development of the protected use, but also to the locating

4476
03:48:59,120 --> 03:49:00,000
of equipment.

4477
03:49:00,000 --> 03:49:03,219
So ultimately it's whatever is greater, whichever would be

4478
03:49:03,219 --> 03:49:04,000
greater.

4479
03:49:04,000 --> 03:49:05,000
Correct. Thank you, Darren.

4480
03:49:05,000 --> 03:49:07,000
Okay. I'm going to go in order that we have.

4481
03:49:07,000 --> 03:49:11,000
So Miss Wasney and then Miss Briggs.

4482
03:49:11,000 --> 03:49:14,000
You know, this is a work in progress.

4483
03:49:14,000 --> 03:49:17,000
It's never just poured in stone.

4484
03:49:17,000 --> 03:49:19,000
We're learning.

4485
03:49:19,000 --> 03:49:20,000
You're learning.

4486
03:49:20,000 --> 03:49:24,190
And industry continues to change because their technology

4487
03:49:24,190 --> 03:49:25,000
changes.

4488
03:49:25,000 --> 03:49:27,000
So just wanted to put that on there.

4489
03:49:27,000 --> 03:49:31,559
We've talked about a lot of good ideas tonight and I think

4490
03:49:31,559 --> 03:49:36,590
we'll see things coming down over the course of years and

4491
03:49:36,590 --> 03:49:40,969
years in terms of changes regarding the timing of trying to

4492
03:49:40,969 --> 03:49:43,000
get something passed tonight.

4493
03:49:43,000 --> 03:49:47,899
We touched on this at the beginning of this council meeting

4494
03:49:47,899 --> 03:49:52,909
that in two weeks time, our moratorium expires and that we

4495
03:49:52,909 --> 03:49:56,000
have to get an ordinance on the books.

4496
03:49:56,000 --> 03:50:02,209
And so by midnight tonight, it fits within that two week

4497
03:50:02,209 --> 03:50:04,000
time ticker.

4498
03:50:04,000 --> 03:50:13,000
So that's why we are trying to get this done tonight.

4499
03:50:13,000 --> 03:50:16,000
Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

4500
03:50:16,000 --> 03:50:20,000
Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem.

4501
03:50:20,000 --> 03:50:24,409
At the risk of saying things that have already been said, I

4502
03:50:24,409 --> 03:50:28,819
've been in Dent for 22 years and I've sat out there a lot

4503
03:50:28,819 --> 03:50:34,000
and I've never seen a topic or an issue that has received

4504
03:50:34,000 --> 03:50:38,549
this much public testimony, this much passion by citizens,

4505
03:50:38,549 --> 03:50:41,000
this much engagement by citizens.

4506
03:50:41,000 --> 03:50:44,000
And so I want to applaud all of us for that.

4507
03:50:44,000 --> 03:50:49,389
I don't think I've ever seen a council spend this much time

4508
03:50:49,389 --> 03:50:54,000
on any one issue and it's a very difficult one.

4509
03:50:54,000 --> 03:50:55,000
And sometimes we disagree.

4510
03:50:55,000 --> 03:50:57,760
I think we would all agree we don't want drilling or fr

4511
03:50:57,760 --> 03:50:59,000
acking in our city.

4512
03:50:59,000 --> 03:51:03,000
Unfortunately, we can't control that.

4513
03:51:03,000 --> 03:51:05,950
And we'll likely vote here in a minute, but I think it's

4514
03:51:05,950 --> 03:51:10,180
just important to remember that when we're in these seats,

4515
03:51:10,180 --> 03:51:12,629
you know, we have a responsibility to check our personal

4516
03:51:12,629 --> 03:51:13,000
opinions.

4517
03:51:13,000 --> 03:51:17,469
And personal goals and personal investments and whatever

4518
03:51:17,469 --> 03:51:19,000
else at the door.

4519
03:51:19,000 --> 03:51:22,180
And we have to we have to make our decisions based on all

4520
03:51:22,180 --> 03:51:24,000
of the citizens of Denton.

4521
03:51:24,000 --> 03:51:27,409
And, you know, the there's been a lot of talk about the

4522
03:51:27,409 --> 03:51:30,000
band tonight, which rightfully so.

4523
03:51:30,000 --> 03:51:32,430
There's a ton of people that worked hard and the band

4524
03:51:32,430 --> 03:51:33,000
passed.

4525
03:51:33,000 --> 03:51:37,020
The fact is, 12 percent of the people in the city voted for

4526
03:51:37,020 --> 03:51:38,000
that band.

4527
03:51:38,000 --> 03:51:40,709
Eighty eight percent of the people either voted against or

4528
03:51:40,709 --> 03:51:43,000
didn't vote will shame on them for not voting.

4529
03:51:43,000 --> 03:51:46,000
But it passed and it was a good thing.

4530
03:51:46,000 --> 03:51:48,000
And then it went away.

4531
03:51:48,000 --> 03:51:51,680
So we have to deal here with the playing field that we have

4532
03:51:51,680 --> 03:51:52,000
.

4533
03:51:52,000 --> 03:51:56,190
And we have to think about everybody who's a citizen of the

4534
03:51:56,190 --> 03:51:59,000
city, not just those who are here.

4535
03:51:59,000 --> 03:52:01,520
Just like many of you don't live anywhere near a gas well

4536
03:52:01,520 --> 03:52:02,000
site.

4537
03:52:02,000 --> 03:52:05,469
You're here to fight on behalf of somebody that's maybe not

4538
03:52:05,469 --> 03:52:08,000
informed or doesn't care or whatever.

4539
03:52:08,000 --> 03:52:13,000
So we're in the same position here.

4540
03:52:13,000 --> 03:52:18,459
But all I want to say before before we vote is that

4541
03:52:18,459 --> 03:52:24,340
somewhere somehow we lost the the the idea of civil

4542
03:52:24,340 --> 03:52:25,000
disagreement.

4543
03:52:25,000 --> 03:52:29,409
You know, we've been called weak cowards, rollover like

4544
03:52:29,409 --> 03:52:31,000
dogs, accused of taking bribes,

4545
03:52:31,000 --> 03:52:35,000
accused of being gutless if we didn't go get arrested,

4546
03:52:35,000 --> 03:52:39,000
received rude profane laden emails.

4547
03:52:39,000 --> 03:52:40,000
Now we're going to wreck us.

4548
03:52:40,000 --> 03:52:42,000
We're accused of reckless endangerment.

4549
03:52:42,000 --> 03:52:45,000
I mean, these are these are things that aren't civil.

4550
03:52:45,000 --> 03:52:48,139
And so I guess what I would request is to think about, you

4551
03:52:48,139 --> 03:52:50,280
know, those are tactics that don't make people want to

4552
03:52:50,280 --> 03:52:51,000
listen to you.

4553
03:52:51,000 --> 03:52:54,000
Those are tactics that make people want to ignore you.

4554
03:52:54,000 --> 03:52:58,000
And and I would I would just hope that regardless.

4555
03:52:58,000 --> 03:53:01,000
No, that's no.

4556
03:53:01,000 --> 03:53:07,559
I would hope that that all of us can learn and learn from

4557
03:53:07,559 --> 03:53:12,340
each other in a very civil way as we go forward, regardless

4558
03:53:12,340 --> 03:53:15,000
of how this vote ends up.

4559
03:53:15,000 --> 03:53:18,000
Thank you.

4560
03:53:18,000 --> 03:53:19,000
Thank you.

4561
03:53:19,000 --> 03:53:23,870
The next person up is Mr. Rodin, who is made wants to make

4562
03:53:23,870 --> 03:53:25,000
a motion.

4563
03:53:25,000 --> 03:53:26,000
Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem.

4564
03:53:26,000 --> 03:53:31,989
I'd like to make a motion to approve individual item for

4565
03:53:31,989 --> 03:53:34,000
individual consideration.

4566
03:53:34,000 --> 03:53:41,350
Item five B as contained in the substitution and supplement

4567
03:53:41,350 --> 03:53:46,000
ary packets that we have in front of us.

4568
03:53:46,000 --> 03:53:49,000
And with the substituted cover ordinance as well.

4569
03:53:49,000 --> 03:53:50,000
Absolutely.

4570
03:53:50,000 --> 03:53:53,729
And with the substituted cover ordinance, you know, except

4571
03:53:53,729 --> 03:53:57,469
for the 200 foot reduction, as I mentioned at the outset

4572
03:53:57,469 --> 03:54:00,500
and the questions back and forth with Darren, I think we

4573
03:54:00,500 --> 03:54:04,000
have in most cases the exact ordinance we had in 2013.

4574
03:54:04,000 --> 03:54:07,000
And in many cases, a much better ordinance.

4575
03:54:07,000 --> 03:54:09,350
Considering the context we're in, I think this is a good

4576
03:54:09,350 --> 03:54:10,000
place to be.

4577
03:54:10,000 --> 03:54:14,000
So I'm going to support this.

4578
03:54:14,000 --> 03:54:17,719
We'll hear the second and then we'll have discussion

4579
03:54:17,719 --> 03:54:20,000
starting with Ms. Briggs. But the second Mr. Johnson.

4580
03:54:20,000 --> 03:54:21,000
Second the motion.

4581
03:54:21,000 --> 03:54:24,000
Thank you, Ms. Briggs.

4582
03:54:24,000 --> 03:54:27,950
I would like to make an amendment. Is that when I do this

4583
03:54:27,950 --> 03:54:29,000
now or can I.

4584
03:54:29,000 --> 03:54:30,000
Now is the time.

4585
03:54:30,000 --> 03:54:31,000
Okay.

4586
03:54:31,000 --> 03:54:35,049
Well, I have I have several but I want to start with the

4587
03:54:35,049 --> 03:54:39,549
notification because I think that putting a minimum on that

4588
03:54:39,549 --> 03:54:42,000
of 20 days is is not good.

4589
03:54:42,000 --> 03:54:45,000
So and then two days minimum is not good.

4590
03:54:45,000 --> 03:54:50,000
So I would like to go from 30 to 10 days.

4591
03:54:50,000 --> 03:54:53,000
And then if you want to go before 30, that's fine.

4592
03:54:53,000 --> 03:54:57,260
We shouldn't restrict any industry who wants to let

4593
03:54:57,260 --> 03:54:59,000
homeowners know.

4594
03:54:59,000 --> 03:55:03,030
So instead of the two day minimum, at least a 10 day and

4595
03:55:03,030 --> 03:55:07,000
you know, industry can do it earlier or later as that.

4596
03:55:07,000 --> 03:55:11,260
But two weeks, I think, is is a good is a good amount of

4597
03:55:11,260 --> 03:55:12,000
time.

4598
03:55:12,000 --> 03:55:15,719
If I could suggest that if you're going to make several

4599
03:55:15,719 --> 03:55:20,000
amendments, it might be easier to take them one at a time.

4600
03:55:20,000 --> 03:55:21,000
Okay. We could deal with them.

4601
03:55:21,000 --> 03:55:24,530
So your first amendment is to amend the ordinance regarding

4602
03:55:24,530 --> 03:55:26,000
notification times.

4603
03:55:26,000 --> 03:55:27,000
What is the maximum?

4604
03:55:27,000 --> 03:55:30,069
What is the minimum that you're recommending for an

4605
03:55:30,069 --> 03:55:31,000
amendment?

4606
03:55:31,000 --> 03:55:36,120
Well, instead of 20 to 2, my recommendation would be 30 to

4607
03:55:36,120 --> 03:55:37,000
10.

4608
03:55:37,000 --> 03:55:41,600
Okay. So there's a motion to amend the ordinance for

4609
03:55:41,600 --> 03:55:47,219
notification from 20 days down to two days to 30 days to 10

4610
03:55:47,219 --> 03:55:48,000
days.

4611
03:55:48,000 --> 03:55:50,000
Do I have the motion correct?

4612
03:55:50,000 --> 03:55:58,000
Is there a second to that motion?

4613
03:55:58,000 --> 03:56:00,000
Mr. Johnson, I would second that.

4614
03:56:00,000 --> 03:56:01,000
There's a second to the motion.

4615
03:56:01,000 --> 03:56:03,000
Is there any discussion on that motion?

4616
03:56:03,000 --> 03:56:06,200
Well, I wanted just a little clarification of what that

4617
03:56:06,200 --> 03:56:11,000
exactly meant before I was going to second it to you.

4618
03:56:11,000 --> 03:56:15,000
Mr. Groth, what do you think it means?

4619
03:56:15,000 --> 03:56:18,409
What I think it means is at least with the 30 days, one of

4620
03:56:18,409 --> 03:56:22,000
the requirements is that this is for every stage.

4621
03:56:22,000 --> 03:56:24,770
We are saying that if you are doing any maintenance

4622
03:56:24,770 --> 03:56:28,000
activities that you're going to give at least 10 days

4623
03:56:28,000 --> 03:56:28,000
notice,

4624
03:56:28,000 --> 03:56:32,000
I don't see the practicality to that.

4625
03:56:32,000 --> 03:56:35,000
A lot of these things happen much sooner than that.

4626
03:56:35,000 --> 03:56:39,299
I'm just wanting to make sure that you understand or that

4627
03:56:39,299 --> 03:56:42,469
we understand what we're saying here, that this is a

4628
03:56:42,469 --> 03:56:46,000
notification to owners and to --

4629
03:56:46,000 --> 03:56:49,920
This is a change to notifying the city and notifying

4630
03:56:49,920 --> 03:56:55,170
homeowners or dwellings from 20 to 2 days up to 30 to 10

4631
03:56:55,170 --> 03:56:56,000
days.

4632
03:56:56,000 --> 03:56:59,569
Okay. So that's what you understand. Does that help you, Mr

4633
03:56:59,569 --> 03:57:00,000
. Hawkins?

4634
03:57:00,000 --> 03:57:03,579
So if somebody is working on a piece of equipment on a well

4635
03:57:03,579 --> 03:57:06,000
site, is that what you just said?

4636
03:57:06,000 --> 03:57:10,000
There's a list of activities that would be effective.

4637
03:57:10,000 --> 03:57:11,000
Is that one of them?

4638
03:57:11,000 --> 03:57:12,000
That is one of them.

4639
03:57:12,000 --> 03:57:15,000
So this is just change -- it's not saying that they have --

4640
03:57:15,000 --> 03:57:17,000
this is the notice that's already there.

4641
03:57:17,000 --> 03:57:19,000
It's just changing the days.

4642
03:57:19,000 --> 03:57:20,000
Yes.

4643
03:57:20,000 --> 03:57:23,000
Okay. Does that help?

4644
03:57:23,000 --> 03:57:24,000
Yeah.

4645
03:57:24,000 --> 03:57:28,000
Okay. Let's see, Mr. Johnson.

4646
03:57:28,000 --> 03:57:33,000
Okay. So I'm going to ask for more clarification then

4647
03:57:33,000 --> 03:57:38,389
because I thought that that notice was specific to what we

4648
03:57:38,389 --> 03:57:42,000
had defined in there as those major activities,

4649
03:57:42,000 --> 03:57:46,190
reworking, fracking, drilling a new well, redrilling, not

4650
03:57:46,190 --> 03:57:49,000
maintenance and those sort of things.

4651
03:57:49,000 --> 03:57:51,000
And Mr. Leal.

4652
03:57:51,000 --> 03:57:53,000
Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem.

4653
03:57:53,000 --> 03:57:55,250
I just wanted to clarify that the section you're

4654
03:57:55,250 --> 03:58:02,479
referencing, Council Member Briggs, is 35-22-7, C, subparag

4655
03:58:02,479 --> 03:58:04,000
raphs 1 and 2.

4656
03:58:04,000 --> 03:58:07,000
Is that correct, ma'am, for the notification?

4657
03:58:07,000 --> 03:58:14,000
That way we know exactly what you're referring to.

4658
03:58:14,000 --> 03:58:23,000
It's 35.22.7.C, subsections 1 and 2.

4659
03:58:23,000 --> 03:58:30,000
That's where the 20 and 2 days is referenced.

4660
03:58:30,000 --> 03:58:33,000
So if I can help with that.

4661
03:58:33,000 --> 03:58:38,000
So as I'm reading, it says this is about notification.

4662
03:58:38,000 --> 03:58:40,250
Any operator who intends to perform the following

4663
03:58:40,250 --> 03:58:41,000
activities.

4664
03:58:41,000 --> 03:58:43,000
Number one, drill a well.

4665
03:58:43,000 --> 03:58:45,000
Number two, work over operation.

4666
03:58:45,000 --> 03:58:49,000
Three, perform completion or re-completion operations.

4667
03:58:49,000 --> 03:58:51,000
Four, plug or abandon a well.

4668
03:58:51,000 --> 03:58:55,190
Five, perform any other maintenance activity that involves

4669
03:58:55,190 --> 03:58:59,000
the removal of the wellhead at a drilling production site.

4670
03:58:59,000 --> 03:59:02,000
Or six, conduct seismic activity.

4671
03:59:02,000 --> 03:59:05,000
So that's the list that we're talking about.

4672
03:59:05,000 --> 03:59:06,000
Okay.

4673
03:59:06,000 --> 03:59:07,000
Well, that's not the one.

4674
03:59:07,000 --> 03:59:10,809
I was speaking about the major things that Johnson about fr

4675
03:59:10,809 --> 03:59:13,000
acking and then re-fracking.

4676
03:59:13,000 --> 03:59:16,069
Well, that's drilling a well, work over, performing

4677
03:59:16,069 --> 03:59:17,000
completion.

4678
03:59:17,000 --> 03:59:19,000
I think that's the one that you're --

4679
03:59:19,000 --> 03:59:20,000
Drilling activities, yes.

4680
03:59:20,000 --> 03:59:21,000
Drilling activities.

4681
03:59:21,000 --> 03:59:23,000
Fracking is part of the completion process.

4682
03:59:23,000 --> 03:59:24,000
Okay, then yes.

4683
03:59:24,000 --> 03:59:25,000
Fracking is included.

4684
03:59:25,000 --> 03:59:28,000
Does that help clarify for you?

4685
03:59:28,000 --> 03:59:30,000
Yeah, I'm going to withdraw my second.

4686
03:59:30,000 --> 03:59:31,000
Okay.

4687
03:59:31,000 --> 03:59:33,000
So is there a second?

4688
03:59:33,000 --> 03:59:41,000
Is anybody else interested in seconding that?

4689
03:59:41,000 --> 03:59:43,000
There's no interest in seconding?

4690
03:59:43,000 --> 03:59:44,000
Okay.

4691
03:59:44,000 --> 03:59:45,000
Mr. Rhoade?

4692
03:59:45,000 --> 03:59:49,190
Well, I don't know if I'm interested in seconding because I

4693
03:59:49,190 --> 03:59:53,000
see 20 days several places in this subchapter.

4694
03:59:53,000 --> 03:59:55,899
I'm just going to ask for the sake of -- amendments are

4695
03:59:55,899 --> 03:59:58,790
pretty serious as we're adding things, and there might be a

4696
03:59:58,790 --> 04:00:00,000
good reason to have one.

4697
04:00:00,000 --> 04:00:03,420
I think we're going to have to cite the specific section

4698
04:00:03,420 --> 04:00:07,069
that wants to be amended and offer some specific language

4699
04:00:07,069 --> 04:00:10,000
or else I'm afraid we're going to be writing an ordinance

4700
04:00:10,000 --> 04:00:12,000
on the fly here and having some unintended consequences.

4701
04:00:12,000 --> 04:00:15,469
So my recommendation as we have amendments coming that we

4702
04:00:15,469 --> 04:00:19,000
cite where that is so that we all know what we're doing.

4703
04:00:19,000 --> 04:00:21,450
But in this case, I'm still unclear as to what we're am

4704
04:00:21,450 --> 04:00:22,000
ending.

4705
04:00:22,000 --> 04:00:29,680
Well, as I understand it, we're talking about a motion to

4706
04:00:29,680 --> 04:00:40,440
amend section 35.22.7 paragraph B -- excuse me, paragraph C

4707
04:00:40,440 --> 04:00:42,000
, section 1.

4708
04:00:42,000 --> 04:00:46,000
And it's on page 2 as you're looking at that.

4709
04:00:46,000 --> 04:00:49,000
Actually, it's included in sections 1 and 2.

4710
04:00:49,000 --> 04:00:52,000
All right.

4711
04:00:52,000 --> 04:00:54,420
We want to make sure that we know what we're doing as we're

4712
04:00:54,420 --> 04:00:55,000
doing it.

4713
04:00:55,000 --> 04:01:00,000
Does that help, Mr. Rogan?

4714
04:01:00,000 --> 04:01:02,000
It helps identify the area at this point.

4715
04:01:02,000 --> 04:01:03,000
Yeah, thank you.

4716
04:01:03,000 --> 04:01:04,000
All right.

4717
04:01:04,000 --> 04:01:06,000
Ms. Briggs?

4718
04:01:06,000 --> 04:01:09,000
This is my first time to do this process.

4719
04:01:09,000 --> 04:01:12,000
So, you know, sorry.

4720
04:01:12,000 --> 04:01:16,840
What I'm trying to say is that I think that homeowners need

4721
04:01:16,840 --> 04:01:22,000
two -- more than two days before someone comes in to frack

4722
04:01:22,000 --> 04:01:23,000
or refrack a well.

4723
04:01:23,000 --> 04:01:26,770
I don't know right now the number, but that is what my

4724
04:01:26,770 --> 04:01:31,000
intention was and I will find it for the next amendment.

4725
04:01:31,000 --> 04:01:34,000
That's what I was trying to point out.

4726
04:01:34,000 --> 04:01:35,000
Okay.

4727
04:01:35,000 --> 04:01:37,000
Mr. Hawkins?

4728
04:01:37,000 --> 04:01:40,000
I think that almost would have worked here for C.

4729
04:01:40,000 --> 04:01:43,000
My only hesitation was perform any other maintenance.

4730
04:01:43,000 --> 04:01:47,190
If there was a piece of equipment that was not working

4731
04:01:47,190 --> 04:01:52,000
properly at a gas well site, I want them to fix it quickly.

4732
04:01:52,000 --> 04:01:55,000
So that's why I agree with what you're saying.

4733
04:01:55,000 --> 04:01:58,389
If we could even get legal or somebody to help her find

4734
04:01:58,389 --> 04:01:59,000
that.

4735
04:01:59,000 --> 04:02:01,209
If you'd read that whole sentence, it says perform any

4736
04:02:01,209 --> 04:02:05,170
other maintenance activities that involve removal of the

4737
04:02:05,170 --> 04:02:08,000
well head at a drilling or production site.

4738
04:02:08,000 --> 04:02:10,000
So it's not any maintenance.

4739
04:02:10,000 --> 04:02:11,000
Okay.

4740
04:02:11,000 --> 04:02:15,329
It's maintenance specific to removing a drill head, a well

4741
04:02:15,329 --> 04:02:16,000
head.

4742
04:02:16,000 --> 04:02:17,000
Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem.

4743
04:02:17,000 --> 04:02:20,000
Okay.

4744
04:02:20,000 --> 04:02:23,000
So -- yes, sir?

4745
04:02:23,000 --> 04:02:24,000
Okay.

4746
04:02:24,000 --> 04:02:26,639
So that's why I withdrew my second was because my

4747
04:02:26,639 --> 04:02:30,000
understanding was that that's where I was going with it.

4748
04:02:30,000 --> 04:02:32,440
If something's wrong and they need to go do maintenance

4749
04:02:32,440 --> 04:02:34,979
because they've got a problem, I don't want them to have to

4750
04:02:34,979 --> 04:02:36,600
give us 10 days notice and use that as an excuse to not go

4751
04:02:36,600 --> 04:02:37,000
do the repair.

4752
04:02:37,000 --> 04:02:42,309
So that's why I'm trying to -- I'm a little stuck because I

4753
04:02:42,309 --> 04:02:44,979
don't think it's good to say here's two days notice and we

4754
04:02:44,979 --> 04:02:46,000
're starting.

4755
04:02:46,000 --> 04:02:50,059
But I also don't want an unintended consequence of what we

4756
04:02:50,059 --> 04:02:53,790
're thinking of give these people more notice that it

4757
04:02:53,790 --> 04:02:56,000
actually works against us.

4758
04:02:56,000 --> 04:02:57,000
So it was.

4759
04:02:57,000 --> 04:02:59,000
Ms. Wiesman?

4760
04:02:59,000 --> 04:03:02,750
Yeah, gosh, I'm just worried about the unintended

4761
04:03:02,750 --> 04:03:04,000
consequence.

4762
04:03:04,000 --> 04:03:08,729
I know that we have spent days, weeks, and there have been

4763
04:03:08,729 --> 04:03:15,000
so many people pouring through every single word, comma.

4764
04:03:15,000 --> 04:03:20,790
We have studied every paragraph, subparagraph, subparagraph

4765
04:03:20,790 --> 04:03:25,620
s of subparagraphs to try to get this right because this

4766
04:03:25,620 --> 04:03:28,000
becomes a law on the books.

4767
04:03:28,000 --> 04:03:33,469
And until we have time to really study as we have all of

4768
04:03:33,469 --> 04:03:38,450
these different pieces and parts and I come back to this is

4769
04:03:38,450 --> 04:03:41,000
a work in progress.

4770
04:03:41,000 --> 04:03:47,600
So that, you know, I hear good things that have come out of

4771
04:03:47,600 --> 04:03:49,000
tonight.

4772
04:03:49,000 --> 04:03:54,139
We knee jerk and try to throw something into an ordinance

4773
04:03:54,139 --> 04:03:59,149
that we really haven't studied to understand all of the

4774
04:03:59,149 --> 04:04:03,940
impacts at every level just like we have been pouring

4775
04:04:03,940 --> 04:04:07,000
through every single line of this ordinance.

4776
04:04:07,000 --> 04:04:09,000
So that's my concern.

4777
04:04:09,000 --> 04:04:10,000
All right.

4778
04:04:10,000 --> 04:04:21,000
My own comment about that.

4779
04:04:21,000 --> 04:04:25,579
I guarantee you, I completely understand your concern about

4780
04:04:25,579 --> 04:04:29,000
the unintended consequences and doing this on the fly.

4781
04:04:29,000 --> 04:04:34,489
But I will tell you, I predict that even these things that

4782
04:04:34,489 --> 04:04:40,079
have been gone over several times within three months, we

4783
04:04:40,079 --> 04:04:42,000
're going to be having to go back and correct some things

4784
04:04:42,000 --> 04:04:46,290
because we're going to discover some wordsmithing that says

4785
04:04:46,290 --> 04:04:49,000
something that we didn't really intend.

4786
04:04:49,000 --> 04:04:53,000
So I understand what you're saying, but we'll do it anyway.

4787
04:04:53,000 --> 04:04:59,799
Now, I don't see any second. So to the to the motion for

4788
04:04:59,799 --> 04:05:03,000
changing the notification date. Oh, excuse me, Mr.

4789
04:05:03,000 --> 04:05:05,520
Thank you. Now that I've had sufficient time to work

4790
04:05:05,520 --> 04:05:08,579
through the ordinance in question, I am comfortable if I

4791
04:05:08,579 --> 04:05:13,629
understand it would be raising the 20 to 30 and raising the

4792
04:05:13,629 --> 04:05:15,000
two to 10.

4793
04:05:15,000 --> 04:05:16,000
Yes. Yeah.

4794
04:05:16,000 --> 04:05:19,600
And just a comment on that, because we wouldn't want to go

4795
04:05:19,600 --> 04:05:23,129
too much further out in terms of their ability to come and

4796
04:05:23,129 --> 04:05:25,000
pre forecast something.

4797
04:05:25,000 --> 04:05:27,399
Otherwise they can have one day a year they're giving

4798
04:05:27,399 --> 04:05:30,190
notice that hey, I'm going to be doing something this year,

4799
04:05:30,190 --> 04:05:32,649
which wouldn't have the intended result of what we're

4800
04:05:32,649 --> 04:05:35,000
trying to do by giving some specific notice.

4801
04:05:35,000 --> 04:05:38,180
But after working through that, I am comfortable with the

4802
04:05:38,180 --> 04:05:40,000
second thing that amendment.

4803
04:05:40,000 --> 04:05:42,899
So there's motion and a second to amend the days of

4804
04:05:42,899 --> 04:05:44,000
notification.

4805
04:05:44,000 --> 04:05:47,719
I just I just had a comment and maybe it puts these

4806
04:05:47,719 --> 04:05:51,000
provisions in a little bit of context.

4807
04:05:51,000 --> 04:05:54,959
A lot of these provisions as we reviewed Fort Worth's

4808
04:05:54,959 --> 04:05:58,370
ordinance, we discovered that they had some notice

4809
04:05:58,370 --> 04:06:02,850
provisions that we had not crafted into our earlier drafts

4810
04:06:02,850 --> 04:06:06,000
in 2010 and 2013.

4811
04:06:06,000 --> 04:06:08,659
And so we captured a lot of those provisions out of the

4812
04:06:08,659 --> 04:06:10,000
Fort Worth ordinance.

4813
04:06:10,000 --> 04:06:13,469
We then staffed all of these provisions that we've got

4814
04:06:13,469 --> 04:06:16,000
certainly through the community.

4815
04:06:16,000 --> 04:06:17,000
The communities looked at it.

4816
04:06:17,000 --> 04:06:19,790
The planning and zoning commission has looked at it and the

4817
04:06:19,790 --> 04:06:22,239
industry has looked at it and they actually had some

4818
04:06:22,239 --> 04:06:23,000
comments.

4819
04:06:23,000 --> 04:06:26,149
I don't have all that data in front of me, but I'm thinking

4820
04:06:26,149 --> 04:06:30,069
the industry did have some comments and thoughts about

4821
04:06:30,069 --> 04:06:32,000
these very specific time frames.

4822
04:06:32,000 --> 04:06:34,000
We received some information from them.

4823
04:06:34,000 --> 04:06:35,000
I'm sorry.

4824
04:06:35,000 --> 04:06:37,659
I just cannot remember exactly what it was as I'm sitting

4825
04:06:37,659 --> 04:06:40,379
here, but there was some concern about some of those time

4826
04:06:40,379 --> 04:06:41,000
frames.

4827
04:06:41,000 --> 04:06:44,420
So I raised that issue so that you're aware that that was a

4828
04:06:44,420 --> 04:06:47,700
piece of the staffing that did occur as we work through

4829
04:06:47,700 --> 04:06:49,000
this ordinance.

4830
04:06:49,000 --> 04:06:53,000
And it was a particular to the specific time frames.

4831
04:06:53,000 --> 04:06:54,000
Thank you very much.

4832
04:06:54,000 --> 04:06:57,000
Is there any other comment?

4833
04:06:57,000 --> 04:06:58,000
Yes, Mr. Roden.

4834
04:06:58,000 --> 04:07:00,409
I guess on that point, there would be a question as to what

4835
04:07:00,409 --> 04:07:01,000
exactly.

4836
04:07:01,000 --> 04:07:04,920
So if I give, say I have a 10 day or two day, whatever it

4837
04:07:04,920 --> 04:07:10,000
happens to be, do I have to be precisely on target?

4838
04:07:10,000 --> 04:07:14,440
In other words, do I have to say this date 10 days from now

4839
04:07:14,440 --> 04:07:18,690
or 12 days from now is the date I'm going to do a work over

4840
04:07:18,690 --> 04:07:20,000
on that well?

4841
04:07:20,000 --> 04:07:24,000
Or if I miss that date, am I required to re-notice?

4842
04:07:24,000 --> 04:07:26,670
I mean, is there that amount of specificity in there or are

4843
04:07:26,670 --> 04:07:30,000
they allowed to give notice and say sometime in the next

4844
04:07:30,000 --> 04:07:30,000
two weeks,

4845
04:07:30,000 --> 04:07:33,219
we're going to be jumping in there and doing this, that, or

4846
04:07:33,219 --> 04:07:34,000
the other?

4847
04:07:34,000 --> 04:07:36,459
Well, it would become an ordinance violation, which of

4848
04:07:36,459 --> 04:07:39,379
course, you know, we would try to craft something that's

4849
04:07:39,379 --> 04:07:44,360
reasonable so it doesn't put a difficult situation out

4850
04:07:44,360 --> 04:07:45,000
there,

4851
04:07:45,000 --> 04:07:48,280
either for citizens or for anyone else in the industry

4852
04:07:48,280 --> 04:07:49,000
either.

4853
04:07:49,000 --> 04:07:53,200
So that's why I indicate that we have worked with this

4854
04:07:53,200 --> 04:07:55,000
pretty carefully.

4855
04:07:55,000 --> 04:07:57,370
The Planning and Zoning Commission, we spent hours in

4856
04:07:57,370 --> 04:07:59,000
meetings and meetings with them.

4857
04:07:59,000 --> 04:08:02,239
They were very particular about some of these specific

4858
04:08:02,239 --> 04:08:06,149
provisions and whether they were days or business days and

4859
04:08:06,149 --> 04:08:08,000
the industry had some concerns as well.

4860
04:08:08,000 --> 04:08:12,959
So I know Mr. Leal is indicating to me that he probably

4861
04:08:12,959 --> 04:08:18,000
calls the specific provision, which unfortunately I don't.

4862
04:08:18,000 --> 04:08:20,000
So perhaps he can enlighten us.

4863
04:08:20,000 --> 04:08:22,000
Thank you, Madam City Attorney.

4864
04:08:22,000 --> 04:08:26,409
I think the reason why we settled on that is to also allow

4865
04:08:26,409 --> 04:08:31,559
the ability that when an operator contracts services from a

4866
04:08:31,559 --> 04:08:32,000
third party,

4867
04:08:32,000 --> 04:08:37,620
provide that sometimes delays occur and they can't get them

4868
04:08:37,620 --> 04:08:38,000
.

4869
04:08:38,000 --> 04:08:42,200
So if we keep pushing these notices farther out and they

4870
04:08:42,200 --> 04:08:45,340
have to, they give the notice and a delay happens three

4871
04:08:45,340 --> 04:08:46,000
days before,

4872
04:08:46,000 --> 04:08:48,920
then they have to start all over again with the

4873
04:08:48,920 --> 04:08:52,680
notification process and it delays their ability to get to

4874
04:08:52,680 --> 04:08:54,000
do the activity.

4875
04:08:54,000 --> 04:08:59,510
So the 20 to 2 days was more, would give them sufficient

4876
04:08:59,510 --> 04:09:01,000
time and if there was a delay,

4877
04:09:01,000 --> 04:09:05,459
the chances for delay would be minimized with a 20 and 2

4878
04:09:05,459 --> 04:09:11,000
day window rather than 30 or 45 days and 10, 20 days.

4879
04:09:11,000 --> 04:09:18,500
Wouldn't it be possible for the notice to say, because

4880
04:09:18,500 --> 04:09:22,000
clearly there are,

4881
04:09:22,000 --> 04:09:24,319
there could be factors of the subcontractor not being able

4882
04:09:24,319 --> 04:09:26,000
to get there when they said they were.

4883
04:09:26,000 --> 04:09:32,260
There could be issues with weather that delayed it by a day

4884
04:09:32,260 --> 04:09:38,489
or two so that the notice might say within this window of

4885
04:09:38,489 --> 04:09:39,000
time,

4886
04:09:39,000 --> 04:09:43,340
we anticipate reworking the well possibly starting as early

4887
04:09:43,340 --> 04:09:47,000
as this date but no later than starting on this date.

4888
04:09:47,000 --> 04:09:51,479
And if it doesn't happen within that window of time that

4889
04:09:51,479 --> 04:09:55,229
they provide the notice for, then yeah, they would have to

4890
04:09:55,229 --> 04:09:56,000
re-kick it off.

4891
04:09:56,000 --> 04:09:59,940
Wouldn't that be possible within the way this ordinance is

4892
04:09:59,940 --> 04:10:03,000
crafted for a notice to come out like that?

4893
04:10:03,000 --> 04:10:10,069
It's possible. I'm not going to, I try to, you know, I

4894
04:10:10,069 --> 04:10:13,000
remember some of the concerns the industry had regarding

4895
04:10:13,000 --> 04:10:15,000
that part of a notice.

4896
04:10:15,000 --> 04:10:19,020
I know that they could answer that much better than I can

4897
04:10:19,020 --> 04:10:22,000
but I do know that the ability,

4898
04:10:22,000 --> 04:10:27,280
that having to re-notice it with, the probability increases

4899
04:10:27,280 --> 04:10:32,000
whenever a delay occurs from a third party service.

4900
04:10:32,000 --> 04:10:34,000
Okay. Mr. Rhoade?

4901
04:10:34,000 --> 04:10:36,590
Yeah, I think again it hinges on what is, what are they

4902
04:10:36,590 --> 04:10:39,629
saying in the notification and whether or not they have to

4903
04:10:39,629 --> 04:10:41,000
pinpoint a precise date

4904
04:10:41,000 --> 04:10:46,700
or whether or not they're able to window and it seems

4905
04:10:46,700 --> 04:10:50,000
unclear in the ordinance.

4906
04:10:50,000 --> 04:10:54,409
I think what we're attempting to do here is say we're stuck

4907
04:10:54,409 --> 04:10:57,000
with this sort of industry in town

4908
04:10:57,000 --> 04:11:02,430
and there's, to put, as someone put it, this is perhaps a

4909
04:11:02,430 --> 04:11:08,000
small stone that we're haggling over so I remain in support

4910
04:11:08,000 --> 04:11:11,459
and I think if there's such a need to come back and look at

4911
04:11:11,459 --> 04:11:14,340
this I think we can do that another time but I think this

4912
04:11:14,340 --> 04:11:15,000
is a reasonable request.

4913
04:11:15,000 --> 04:11:17,000
All right, Ms. Briggs?

4914
04:11:17,000 --> 04:11:18,000
I'm good.

4915
04:11:18,000 --> 04:11:20,000
You have, you're asking to speak.

4916
04:11:20,000 --> 04:11:21,000
Oh, sorry.

4917
04:11:21,000 --> 04:11:25,190
Okay. Seeing no more comments, let's vote on the amendment

4918
04:11:25,190 --> 04:11:29,000
to change the notification as made.

4919
04:11:29,000 --> 04:11:39,000
Some motions made.

4920
04:11:39,000 --> 04:11:42,000
It passes unanimously.

4921
04:11:42,000 --> 04:11:45,000
Are there any other motions to amend?

4922
04:11:45,000 --> 04:11:49,000
Ms. Briggs?

4923
04:11:49,000 --> 04:11:53,790
No, I have a motion to add vapor recovery units as

4924
04:11:53,790 --> 04:11:58,000
described in the Fort Worth ordinance.

4925
04:11:58,000 --> 04:12:02,979
Can you cite the section in the ordinance that you want to

4926
04:12:02,979 --> 04:12:04,000
change?

4927
04:12:04,000 --> 04:12:07,000
Hold on, Kevin, don't get mad at me.

4928
04:12:07,000 --> 04:12:09,000
I'm so bad in all this paper.

4929
04:12:09,000 --> 04:12:11,000
It was in the Fort Worth ordinance.

4930
04:12:11,000 --> 04:12:13,250
At this particular point it would be nice to have that, you

4931
04:12:13,250 --> 04:12:15,000
know, when the TV goes out.

4932
04:12:15,000 --> 04:12:19,719
Well, it's not in our current ordinance so I don't have a

4933
04:12:19,719 --> 04:12:24,000
number to reference in our current ordinance.

4934
04:12:24,000 --> 04:12:30,000
So it is in their ordinance.

4935
04:12:30,000 --> 04:12:33,350
It says vapor recovery equipment shall be required for tank

4936
04:12:33,350 --> 04:12:37,069
batteries that have an estimated rolling annual aggregate

4937
04:12:37,069 --> 04:12:41,340
emissions rate of 25 tons or greater of total volatile

4938
04:12:41,340 --> 04:12:44,000
organic hydrocarbons per year per wellhead.

4939
04:12:44,000 --> 04:12:47,809
Vapor recovery equipment must be operated and maintained in

4940
04:12:47,809 --> 04:12:51,680
such a way to ensure a 95% recovery efficiency between the

4941
04:12:51,680 --> 04:12:55,000
internal and external atmospheres of the tanks.

4942
04:12:55,000 --> 04:12:58,930
So your motion is to simply amend the ordinance to add that

4943
04:12:58,930 --> 04:13:03,000
language and that the staff could place it appropriately.

4944
04:13:03,000 --> 04:13:05,000
As the Fort Worth ordinance.

4945
04:13:05,000 --> 04:13:07,000
Mr. Hawkins?

4946
04:13:07,000 --> 04:13:09,000
I have a question for legal on this one.

4947
04:13:09,000 --> 04:13:12,149
I know that this has come up a bunch of times during this

4948
04:13:12,149 --> 04:13:14,000
drafting of the ordinance.

4949
04:13:14,000 --> 04:13:19,000
Can you advise on this one, please?

4950
04:13:19,000 --> 04:13:23,000
Well, with regard to the vapor recovery units, there are a

4951
04:13:23,000 --> 04:13:25,000
couple of issues going on.

4952
04:13:25,000 --> 04:13:28,909
I don't know, first of all, when Fort Worth added this

4953
04:13:28,909 --> 04:13:30,000
provision.

4954
04:13:30,000 --> 04:13:34,000
I suspicion it was absolutely certainly pre-HB40.

4955
04:13:34,000 --> 04:13:39,969
I suspicion it may have been also pre the date that the

4956
04:13:39,969 --> 04:13:46,170
federal government added the vapor recovery regulations to

4957
04:13:46,170 --> 04:13:47,000
the law.

4958
04:13:47,000 --> 04:13:52,000
And so I think there is some concern there.

4959
04:13:52,000 --> 04:13:53,000
We've looked at this.

4960
04:13:53,000 --> 04:13:55,000
We've looked at it repeatedly.

4961
04:13:55,000 --> 04:13:59,409
I have serious concerns that this issue is in fact preempt

4962
04:13:59,409 --> 04:14:03,409
ed and I'll be glad to discuss that with you further in

4963
04:14:03,409 --> 04:14:05,000
closed session.

4964
04:14:05,000 --> 04:14:06,000
Thank you.

4965
04:14:06,000 --> 04:14:08,000
Is there more discussion?

4966
04:14:08,000 --> 04:14:13,000
Is there a second?

4967
04:14:13,000 --> 04:14:15,000
I see no discussion.

4968
04:14:15,000 --> 04:14:17,000
I see no second.

4969
04:14:17,000 --> 04:14:22,000
So that motion is dives.

4970
04:14:22,000 --> 04:14:24,000
Is there another motion?

4971
04:14:24,000 --> 04:14:27,000
Oh, Ms. Briggs.

4972
04:14:27,000 --> 04:14:33,459
I have a motion to change all the reverse setbacks to 300

4973
04:14:33,459 --> 04:14:34,000
feet.

4974
04:14:34,000 --> 04:14:38,000
The reverse setbacks from 250 to 300 feet.

4975
04:14:38,000 --> 04:14:42,409
Now, are you talking about all of the setbacks or the set

4976
04:14:42,409 --> 04:14:49,000
backs for the for the residential zone?

4977
04:14:49,000 --> 04:14:56,000
Residential and other districts all except for industrial.

4978
04:14:56,000 --> 04:15:00,319
Okay, we we need to make sure that we are clear on that and

4979
04:15:00,319 --> 04:15:03,000
where that is in the ordinance.

4980
04:15:03,000 --> 04:15:21,000
It is thirty five point five point ten point two B.

4981
04:15:21,000 --> 04:15:28,069
But when you get there, one, two and three, there's

4982
04:15:28,069 --> 04:15:30,000
paragraph one.

4983
04:15:30,000 --> 04:15:33,000
New drilling. Yes, sir.

4984
04:15:33,000 --> 04:15:39,000
So paragraph one item C.

4985
04:15:39,000 --> 04:15:42,000
Where the reverse setback would not be 250 but 300.

4986
04:15:42,000 --> 04:15:44,000
Yes. Okay.

4987
04:15:44,000 --> 04:15:48,000
Do you see any on the next pages where you would change it?

4988
04:15:48,000 --> 04:15:52,000
See number.

4989
04:15:52,000 --> 04:15:54,000
Well, look at you.

4990
04:15:54,000 --> 04:15:56,000
No. Yeah, that would be it.

4991
04:15:56,000 --> 04:15:57,000
That's it. Yes.

4992
04:15:57,000 --> 04:16:04,469
Okay. There's a motion for changing that setback to 300

4993
04:16:04,469 --> 04:16:05,000
feet.

4994
04:16:05,000 --> 04:16:07,000
Mr. Hawkins. Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem.

4995
04:16:07,000 --> 04:16:10,379
I know that 50 feet does not sound like a lot, but is

4996
04:16:10,379 --> 04:16:15,000
anybody in the room have the data what 50 feet does to the

4997
04:16:15,000 --> 04:16:18,000
acreage used?

4998
04:16:18,000 --> 04:16:24,719
I mean, rendered useless there or not useless, but unde

4999
04:16:24,719 --> 04:16:26,000
velopable.

5000
04:16:26,000 --> 04:16:28,000
Just in general.

5001
04:16:28,000 --> 04:16:30,000
It appears we don't have that.

5002
04:16:30,000 --> 04:16:34,000
Do you have any other questions? No.

5003
04:16:34,000 --> 04:16:39,000
Is there a second to the motion?

5004
04:16:39,000 --> 04:16:41,000
Mr. Road.

5005
04:16:41,000 --> 04:16:45,319
I just want to verbalizing in in this discussion of the 300

5006
04:16:45,319 --> 04:16:49,510
foot effective setback when this topic came up and it came

5007
04:16:49,510 --> 04:16:51,969
up in a few different settings that the council discussions

5008
04:16:51,969 --> 04:16:52,000
.

5009
04:16:52,000 --> 04:16:56,459
In the last couple weeks of the need to want to meet this

5010
04:16:56,459 --> 04:16:59,000
300 foot buffer.

5011
04:16:59,000 --> 04:17:02,379
And so there is much work to be done to try and figure out

5012
04:17:02,379 --> 04:17:05,690
how to do that in a way that got the fire marshal the fire

5013
04:17:05,690 --> 04:17:08,000
chief to where they needed to be.

5014
04:17:08,000 --> 04:17:11,639
But in the same time to be able to maintain the 250 foot

5015
04:17:11,639 --> 04:17:13,000
general setback.

5016
04:17:13,000 --> 04:17:17,469
So I think given that our fire chief confirmed tonight that

5017
04:17:17,469 --> 04:17:21,829
he and his department were comfortable that this setback

5018
04:17:21,829 --> 04:17:25,309
gave them what they needed to me that met the need that we

5019
04:17:25,309 --> 04:17:28,000
're all going for with that magical 300 numbers.

5020
04:17:28,000 --> 04:17:31,000
So I'm fine with the ordinance as it stands.

5021
04:17:31,000 --> 04:17:35,500
Is Briggs. Well going from what Mr. So said with the blow

5022
04:17:35,500 --> 04:17:39,819
out in the the old fire chief saying that 330 and I do

5023
04:17:39,819 --> 04:17:43,000
understand that that's a recommended.

5024
04:17:43,000 --> 04:17:47,829
But if we're going with the 250 and then the little bit

5025
04:17:47,829 --> 04:17:51,000
that we can get with the line to line.

5026
04:17:51,000 --> 04:17:54,850
I feel like if we do the 300 the three the 30 extra feet

5027
04:17:54,850 --> 04:17:58,219
for safety there is included in that extra that you guys

5028
04:17:58,219 --> 04:18:02,000
were talking about from where the equipment is located.

5029
04:18:02,000 --> 04:18:05,870
So for me that that makes me feel safer and a little bit

5030
04:18:05,870 --> 04:18:10,000
more willing to relax a little bit about the safety.

5031
04:18:10,000 --> 04:18:15,579
I mean it's not awesome but I feel like it's a it's a good

5032
04:18:15,579 --> 04:18:22,700
balance for that 330 distance that I heard earlier. That's

5033
04:18:22,700 --> 04:18:24,000
why I did that.

5034
04:18:24,000 --> 04:18:28,000
I'm seeing no one else wishing to speak.

5035
04:18:28,000 --> 04:18:33,709
Our rules say that the chair is unable to make motions or

5036
04:18:33,709 --> 04:18:36,000
to second motions.

5037
04:18:36,000 --> 04:18:40,409
If I were sitting in my usual chair I would second but it's

5038
04:18:40,409 --> 04:18:44,620
clear that when the vote happened it would be a vote that

5039
04:18:44,620 --> 04:18:46,000
did not pass.

5040
04:18:46,000 --> 04:18:48,989
So I regret that I'm not able to at least second so we

5041
04:18:48,989 --> 04:18:52,000
could have the vote but I'm not able to do that.

5042
04:18:52,000 --> 04:18:56,510
But but I don't think that would have made any difference

5043
04:18:56,510 --> 04:18:59,000
because of the what we have.

5044
04:18:59,000 --> 04:19:04,120
Mr. Hawkins would you like me to make a motion to suspend

5045
04:19:04,120 --> 04:19:07,000
the rules or I can't ask that.

5046
04:19:07,000 --> 04:19:11,840
Yes ma'am let me clarify that point just a touch if you

5047
04:19:11,840 --> 04:19:15,000
would bear with me for a second.

5048
04:19:15,000 --> 04:19:18,120
We have worked pretty extensively with the fire department

5049
04:19:18,120 --> 04:19:22,069
the fire chief and the fire marshal and we please remember

5050
04:19:22,069 --> 04:19:27,000
we did drop this additional provision in a 35 5 10 2

5051
04:19:27,000 --> 04:19:28,000
section F.

5052
04:19:28,000 --> 04:19:34,149
And that provision would require a meeting of the 250 foot

5053
04:19:34,149 --> 04:19:39,350
setback as measured pursuant to that section that council

5054
04:19:39,350 --> 04:19:42,000
member Briggs referenced.

5055
04:19:42,000 --> 04:19:47,100
Or the greater 300 foot setback as specified from a

5056
04:19:47,100 --> 04:19:51,760
measuring point in that other section which is in that

5057
04:19:51,760 --> 04:19:53,000
section F.

5058
04:19:53,000 --> 04:19:57,190
So we've really overlaid that requirement of the 300 foot

5059
04:19:57,190 --> 04:20:01,239
setback on top of the 250 foot setback requiring that the

5060
04:20:01,239 --> 04:20:03,000
larger setback be met.

5061
04:20:03,000 --> 04:20:08,000
So we've tried to address it in any circumstance.

5062
04:20:08,000 --> 04:20:10,899
Just if I could still have the mic just moving forward if

5063
04:20:10,899 --> 04:20:13,860
council's pleasure if we could suspend the rules on you

5064
04:20:13,860 --> 04:20:16,639
being able to second or anything in the absence of our

5065
04:20:16,639 --> 04:20:20,000
mayor I would be okay with that tonight.

5066
04:20:20,000 --> 04:20:24,530
But I'm just throwing that out there. I don't know how that

5067
04:20:24,530 --> 04:20:25,000
works.

5068
04:20:25,000 --> 04:20:28,000
So it's a motion to suspend.

5069
04:20:28,000 --> 04:20:32,299
So, all right. Well, I'm going to say that that that at

5070
04:20:32,299 --> 04:20:35,000
this time this motion fails.

5071
04:20:35,000 --> 04:20:39,000
Is there a motion. Is there another motion then.

5072
04:20:39,000 --> 04:20:43,190
Yes, Mr. Hawkins like to make a motion to spend the rules

5073
04:20:43,190 --> 04:20:44,000
tonight.

5074
04:20:44,000 --> 04:20:50,600
So that the mayor pro tem may participate in. How am I

5075
04:20:50,600 --> 04:20:55,340
saying this second in making motions making motions or

5076
04:20:55,340 --> 04:20:58,000
seconding okay second to that.

5077
04:20:58,000 --> 04:21:04,000
There's a second by Miss Briggs.

5078
04:21:04,000 --> 04:21:08,229
I second I think you should be allowed to to partake in

5079
04:21:08,229 --> 04:21:10,000
this. Okay.

5080
04:21:10,000 --> 04:21:14,000
Is there discussion.

5081
04:21:14,000 --> 04:21:17,000
All right. All those.

5082
04:21:17,000 --> 04:21:30,000
Vote on the board.

5083
04:21:30,000 --> 04:21:40,000
Thanks guys.

5084
04:21:40,000 --> 04:21:43,000
You're still up. You have a request to speak.

5085
04:21:43,000 --> 04:21:46,000
Okay, Miss Briggs.

5086
04:21:46,000 --> 04:21:53,729
I'd like to make a motion for an amendment to increase the

5087
04:21:53,729 --> 04:22:04,920
permit fee from $1,700 to 3250 as in the 2009 Decatur

5088
04:22:04,920 --> 04:22:07,000
ordinance.

5089
04:22:07,000 --> 04:22:09,000
Okay, Mr. Hawkins.

5090
04:22:09,000 --> 04:22:12,000
Mr. Hawkins and then.

5091
04:22:12,000 --> 04:22:15,000
Well, attorney.

5092
04:22:15,000 --> 04:22:19,409
Mr. Mayor pretend this issue of the fees is not before the

5093
04:22:19,409 --> 04:22:21,000
council tonight.

5094
04:22:21,000 --> 04:22:23,899
It's not posted. It's not in the ordinance and it's not

5095
04:22:23,899 --> 04:22:26,000
before you for consideration tonight.

5096
04:22:26,000 --> 04:22:28,379
So I don't think that's something that we can consider

5097
04:22:28,379 --> 04:22:29,000
tonight.

5098
04:22:29,000 --> 04:22:32,940
However, I will say to you that there is a separate fee

5099
04:22:32,940 --> 04:22:36,670
ordinance and we will be looking at that and bringing

5100
04:22:36,670 --> 04:22:40,000
something forward in the future.

5101
04:22:40,000 --> 04:22:43,989
Just by way of laying a little bit of foundation as we look

5102
04:22:43,989 --> 04:22:47,069
at the fees, the fees need to be consistent with the work

5103
04:22:47,069 --> 04:22:49,000
that's actually being performed.

5104
04:22:49,000 --> 04:22:51,700
So we'll get these issues very closely and we'll bring

5105
04:22:51,700 --> 04:22:54,760
something forward that will be consistent with that concept

5106
04:22:54,760 --> 04:22:55,000
.

5107
04:22:55,000 --> 04:22:58,260
So you'll be seeing seeing that in the not too distant

5108
04:22:58,260 --> 04:22:59,000
future.

5109
04:22:59,000 --> 04:23:13,000
There is no second to that motion. So that motion fails.

5110
04:23:13,000 --> 04:23:20,000
Are there any other motions to amend?

5111
04:23:20,000 --> 04:23:27,170
I have another motion. I can't I haven't been able to find

5112
04:23:27,170 --> 04:23:33,510
the number. I admire your persistence to require electric

5113
04:23:33,510 --> 04:23:36,000
motors instead of diesel.

5114
04:23:36,000 --> 04:23:39,629
May I suggest that we take a moment and be specific as to

5115
04:23:39,629 --> 04:23:43,000
where those would be required. Yes.

5116
04:23:43,000 --> 04:23:48,000
Okay.

5117
04:23:48,000 --> 04:23:53,000
It's it's it's not urgent yet.

5118
04:23:53,000 --> 04:23:55,000
Mr. Road.

5119
04:23:55,000 --> 04:23:58,860
While Councilmember Briggs is looking that up, I guess I'd

5120
04:23:58,860 --> 04:24:02,000
like to ask a question of legal on that point.

5121
04:24:02,000 --> 04:24:09,069
We're writing this in the context of HB 40, which clarifies

5122
04:24:09,069 --> 04:24:12,559
to a certain degree what what a city can regulate and

5123
04:24:12,559 --> 04:24:16,000
certainly clarifies what they cannot regulate.

5124
04:24:16,000 --> 04:24:21,159
Your understanding of that legislation with something like

5125
04:24:21,159 --> 04:24:25,760
mandating certain operational activities such as what kind

5126
04:24:25,760 --> 04:24:29,670
of generator they can use, what kind of motors they can use

5127
04:24:29,670 --> 04:24:30,000
.

5128
04:24:30,000 --> 04:24:35,479
Does that fall under the simply a surface activity where it

5129
04:24:35,479 --> 04:24:40,149
seems cities have a bit of leeway or is that more of a

5130
04:24:40,149 --> 04:24:44,000
regulating an operator's activity?

5131
04:24:44,000 --> 04:24:46,000
How do you understand that?

5132
04:24:46,000 --> 04:24:49,389
Let me make a comment before I try to circle back to the

5133
04:24:49,389 --> 04:24:51,000
specific question.

5134
04:24:51,000 --> 04:24:55,860
I think you're asking this idea of using electric motors is

5135
04:24:55,860 --> 04:24:59,000
not something that arose tonight.

5136
04:24:59,000 --> 04:25:03,700
This is something that we have been hearing from citizens

5137
04:25:03,700 --> 04:25:08,280
and we have been looking at and thinking about for really

5138
04:25:08,280 --> 04:25:11,000
many, many months.

5139
04:25:11,000 --> 04:25:14,590
This is also something the planning and zoning commission

5140
04:25:14,590 --> 04:25:16,000
desired to look at.

5141
04:25:16,000 --> 04:25:20,409
And the staff has done pretty extensive research, even

5142
04:25:20,409 --> 04:25:24,850
pulling in some subject matter experts to look at the kind

5143
04:25:24,850 --> 04:25:32,000
of capacity that might be available, the kind of capacity

5144
04:25:32,000 --> 04:25:34,829
that that that it would take to run these generators and

5145
04:25:34,829 --> 04:25:36,000
that kind of thing.

5146
04:25:36,000 --> 04:25:38,000
And it's it's episodic.

5147
04:25:38,000 --> 04:25:43,629
Consistent load. And so there's a whole science behind all

5148
04:25:43,629 --> 04:25:47,340
of that that we looked at pretty carefully and we've we've

5149
04:25:47,340 --> 04:25:49,000
tried to think through.

5150
04:25:49,000 --> 04:25:52,670
The planning and zoning commission, as I recall, made a

5151
04:25:52,670 --> 04:25:56,379
determination not to carry that issue forward because of

5152
04:25:56,379 --> 04:26:00,350
some of the concerns that that arose at the commission and

5153
04:26:00,350 --> 04:26:06,000
determined not to make that recommendation to the council.

5154
04:26:06,000 --> 04:26:08,639
As we look at the issue, I'm also hearing and I'm sure

5155
04:26:08,639 --> 04:26:11,000
there's a lot of science behind this as well.

5156
04:26:11,000 --> 04:26:16,389
But the electric motors create a different kind of noise,

5157
04:26:16,389 --> 04:26:20,000
which may or may not actually solve anything.

5158
04:26:20,000 --> 04:26:22,709
And I think our guess what administrator has given us quite

5159
04:26:22,709 --> 04:26:24,000
a bit of thought as well.

5160
04:26:24,000 --> 04:26:28,649
And so he could probably more fairly address the science

5161
04:26:28,649 --> 04:26:33,000
piece of it in the industry and the noise impacts.

5162
04:26:33,000 --> 04:26:39,600
I do believe that we we are entitled to regulate noise

5163
04:26:39,600 --> 04:26:41,000
issues.

5164
04:26:41,000 --> 04:26:44,770
I would say to to us as we look at this ordinance and try

5165
04:26:44,770 --> 04:26:48,850
to determine how to craft it, we've we've tried to craft

5166
04:26:48,850 --> 04:26:53,450
the provisions so that we are setting a standard and then

5167
04:26:53,450 --> 04:26:56,000
allowing the industry to meet the standard.

5168
04:26:56,000 --> 04:27:00,620
How so ever that can be done, and that's probably a

5169
04:27:00,620 --> 04:27:04,000
reasonable way to approach this.

5170
04:27:04,000 --> 04:27:07,590
Certainly, we we've thought very carefully, carefully as to

5171
04:27:07,590 --> 04:27:10,770
whether or not we want to try to regulate the specifics of

5172
04:27:10,770 --> 04:27:13,000
the industry or set the standard.

5173
04:27:13,000 --> 04:27:15,079
And we've determined that setting the standard is probably

5174
04:27:15,079 --> 04:27:16,000
the better approach.

5175
04:27:16,000 --> 04:27:19,379
But perhaps we could allow Mr. Groth to address this other

5176
04:27:19,379 --> 04:27:21,000
issue if you're interested.

5177
04:27:21,000 --> 04:27:32,979
If I can ask Councilmember Briggs, are you is is is your

5178
04:27:32,979 --> 04:27:39,920
intent to regulate no diesel motors and to have electric

5179
04:27:39,920 --> 04:27:42,000
motors instead.

5180
04:27:42,000 --> 04:27:47,719
Is that an attempt to mitigate noise nuisances or is it

5181
04:27:47,719 --> 04:27:50,000
about emissions?

5182
04:27:50,000 --> 04:27:52,000
Both. Both.

5183
04:27:52,000 --> 04:27:55,979
I think that there's an opportunity maybe to do something

5184
04:27:55,979 --> 04:27:59,000
with noise nuisance, but I'm not sure.

5185
04:27:59,000 --> 04:28:04,530
Okay. I just was curious about that. Have you found where

5186
04:28:04,530 --> 04:28:07,000
you.

5187
04:28:07,000 --> 04:28:10,549
I haven't. I haven't. It's not in here so I don't know

5188
04:28:10,549 --> 04:28:12,000
where where to look.

5189
04:28:12,000 --> 04:28:14,000
Okay.

5190
04:28:14,000 --> 04:28:15,000
So.

5191
04:28:15,000 --> 04:28:16,000
All right.

5192
04:28:16,000 --> 04:28:21,989
Then, if it comes up, if in the course of our conversation,

5193
04:28:21,989 --> 04:28:25,170
if you want to bring that back out, but for this time, it

5194
04:28:25,170 --> 04:28:29,000
looks like that fails due to the lack of a second.

5195
04:28:29,000 --> 04:28:30,000
Of course.

5196
04:28:30,000 --> 04:28:38,000
More discussion.

5197
04:28:38,000 --> 04:28:40,950
Now the motion to amend is there's still one with Mr. Br

5198
04:28:40,950 --> 04:28:42,000
iggs name on it.

5199
04:28:42,000 --> 04:28:46,000
Have you have you punched in another one.

5200
04:28:46,000 --> 04:28:50,000
Have I what have you are you know it just didn't go away.

5201
04:28:50,000 --> 04:28:55,000
Didn't go away. You can make that one go away.

5202
04:28:55,000 --> 04:28:56,000
I'll do it.

5203
04:28:56,000 --> 04:28:59,000
Okay.

5204
04:28:59,000 --> 04:29:02,280
Well right now the motion on the floor is to approve the

5205
04:29:02,280 --> 04:29:03,000
ordinance.

5206
04:29:03,000 --> 04:29:09,000
With the caveats by rodent and the second by Johnson.

5207
04:29:09,000 --> 04:29:13,000
And with the one amendment that was in fact added to the

5208
04:29:13,000 --> 04:29:14,000
the.

5209
04:29:14,000 --> 04:29:18,000
For the for the for the notifications.

5210
04:29:18,000 --> 04:29:21,000
Mr. Rudin.

5211
04:29:21,000 --> 04:29:25,000
I was just re indicating my initial motion on the board.

5212
04:29:25,000 --> 04:29:36,000
Is there any further discussion.

5213
04:29:36,000 --> 04:29:55,719
If there's no discussion, then we will vote on the

5214
04:29:55,719 --> 04:30:00,000
ordinance.

5215
04:30:00,000 --> 04:30:02,000
The motion passes.

5216
04:30:02,000 --> 04:30:06,000
Okay.

5217
04:30:06,000 --> 04:30:11,000
We're now to the last item on the agenda concluding items.

5218
04:30:11,000 --> 04:30:13,670
Are there any council members that have anything they want

5219
04:30:13,670 --> 04:30:19,000
to put on there.

5220
04:30:19,000 --> 04:30:20,000
Any items.

5221
04:30:20,000 --> 04:30:28,000
Mr. Rudin.

5222
04:30:28,000 --> 04:30:32,000
I'm sorry.

5223
04:30:32,000 --> 04:30:33,000
A couple of things.

5224
04:30:33,000 --> 04:30:35,000
One is we've had a.

5225
04:30:35,000 --> 04:30:40,000
We had a previous work session on noise ordinance.

5226
04:30:40,000 --> 04:30:42,760
I was kind of focusing on some downtown issues and how does

5227
04:30:42,760 --> 04:30:43,000
.

5228
04:30:43,000 --> 04:30:44,000
How to address that.

5229
04:30:44,000 --> 04:30:46,000
I've had some questions from.

5230
04:30:46,000 --> 04:30:51,000
Business owners who have concepts.

5231
04:30:51,000 --> 04:30:53,069
In mind that they're worried might impact whatever that

5232
04:30:53,069 --> 04:30:54,000
potential ordinance

5233
04:30:54,000 --> 04:30:55,000
might be.

5234
04:30:55,000 --> 04:30:58,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5235
04:30:58,000 --> 04:31:00,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5236
04:31:00,000 --> 04:31:02,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5237
04:31:02,000 --> 04:31:04,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5238
04:31:04,000 --> 04:31:06,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5239
04:31:06,000 --> 04:31:08,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5240
04:31:08,000 --> 04:31:10,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5241
04:31:10,000 --> 04:31:12,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5242
04:31:12,000 --> 04:31:14,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5243
04:31:14,000 --> 04:31:16,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5244
04:31:16,000 --> 04:31:18,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5245
04:31:18,000 --> 04:31:20,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5246
04:31:20,000 --> 04:31:22,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5247
04:31:22,000 --> 04:31:24,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5248
04:31:24,000 --> 04:31:26,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5249
04:31:26,000 --> 04:31:28,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5250
04:31:28,000 --> 04:31:30,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5251
04:31:30,000 --> 04:31:32,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5252
04:31:32,000 --> 04:31:34,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5253
04:31:34,000 --> 04:31:36,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5254
04:31:36,000 --> 04:31:38,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5255
04:31:38,000 --> 04:31:40,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5256
04:31:40,000 --> 04:31:42,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5257
04:31:42,000 --> 04:31:44,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5258
04:31:44,000 --> 04:31:46,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5259
04:31:46,000 --> 04:31:48,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5260
04:31:48,000 --> 04:31:50,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5261
04:31:50,000 --> 04:31:52,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5262
04:31:52,000 --> 04:31:54,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5263
04:31:54,000 --> 04:31:56,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5264
04:31:56,000 --> 04:31:58,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5265
04:31:58,000 --> 04:32:00,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5266
04:32:00,000 --> 04:32:02,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5267
04:32:02,000 --> 04:32:04,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5268
04:32:04,000 --> 04:32:06,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5269
04:32:06,000 --> 04:32:08,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5270
04:32:08,000 --> 04:32:10,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5271
04:32:10,000 --> 04:32:12,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5272
04:32:12,000 --> 04:32:14,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5273
04:32:14,000 --> 04:32:16,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5274
04:32:16,000 --> 04:32:18,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5275
04:32:18,000 --> 04:32:20,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5276
04:32:20,000 --> 04:32:22,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5277
04:32:22,000 --> 04:32:24,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5278
04:32:24,000 --> 04:32:26,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5279
04:32:26,000 --> 04:32:28,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5280
04:32:28,000 --> 04:32:30,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5281
04:32:30,000 --> 04:32:32,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5282
04:32:32,000 --> 04:32:34,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5283
04:32:34,000 --> 04:32:36,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5284
04:32:36,000 --> 04:32:38,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5285
04:32:38,000 --> 04:32:40,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5286
04:32:40,000 --> 04:32:42,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5287
04:32:42,000 --> 04:32:44,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5288
04:32:44,000 --> 04:32:46,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5289
04:32:46,000 --> 04:32:48,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5290
04:32:48,000 --> 04:32:50,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5291
04:32:50,000 --> 04:32:52,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5292
04:32:52,000 --> 04:32:54,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5293
04:32:54,000 --> 04:32:56,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5294
04:32:56,000 --> 04:32:58,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5295
04:32:58,000 --> 04:33:00,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5296
04:33:00,000 --> 04:33:02,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5297
04:33:02,000 --> 04:33:04,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5298
04:33:04,000 --> 04:33:06,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5299
04:33:06,000 --> 04:33:08,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5300
04:33:08,000 --> 04:33:10,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5301
04:33:10,000 --> 04:33:12,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5302
04:33:12,000 --> 04:33:14,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5303
04:33:14,000 --> 04:33:16,000
And I think that's a good way to address that.

5304
04:33:16,000 --> 04:33:18,000
Are there any other comments?

5305
04:33:18,000 --> 04:33:20,000
Are there any other comments?

5306
04:33:20,000 --> 04:33:22,000
Are there any other comments?

5307
04:33:22,000 --> 04:33:24,000
Look at that.

5308
04:33:24,000 --> 04:33:26,000
We beat the deadline by an hour.

5309
04:33:26,000 --> 04:33:28,000
We beat the deadline by an hour.

5310
04:33:28,000 --> 04:33:30,000
In that case, we are adjourning at 1101.

5311
04:33:30,000 --> 04:33:32,000
In that case, we are adjourning at 1101.