May 26, 2021 Downtown Denton Tax Increment Financing Zone No. 1 Board on 2021-05-26 12:00 PM

We have determined that a quorum has been met. The Downtown Denton Tax Increment Financing Reinvestment Zone No. 1 Board of the City of Denton, Texas will now convene in a regular meeting at 12.06 p.m. this Wednesday, the 26th day of May 2021. Our first order of business is 1A. Consider approval and/or corrections of the meeting minutes from the March 24, 2021 Downtown Denton TIF Reinvestment Zone No. 1 Board of the City of Denton, Texas. Are there any corrections to the minutes as distributed? Do we have a motion? I'll motion to approve the minutes. Do we have a second? Paul seconds? I do. It is moved and seconded that we approve the minutes as distributed. I will call your name and once called, state your name and your motion of adoption or opposition with a form of yes or no. Don't forget to unmute yourself. Ben already knows he's not going to. We'll start with Ben. Ben Easley, aye. Paul? Paul Meltzer, aye. Kass? Aye. And Melissa is an aye. The motion passes by a unanimous vote of four. The next order of business is receive a report, hold a discussion and give staff direction regarding the programs and activities of the Denton Main Street Association. We're so excited to see Christine and John here from Denton Main Street. I'll turn that over to Christine. Yeah, I just before we get started and turn it over to Christine and John, I just want to remind the board why Christine and John are here. So if you remember at your last board meeting, we were talking about possible changes to the downtown reinvestment grant. And then if you think back over the long term, we've had a lot of conversations over the last year about the downtown, not just the downtown reinvestment grant, but the TURS as a whole and what the funds could be used for and what types of projects we'd want to prioritize. And so the direction we got from the board at your March meeting was, well, let's ask Denton Main Street what's going on, how they've, you know, how businesses have been dealing with the pandemic, how they have, you know, how they see the TURS, kind of what role it can play, what kind of projects that, from their perspective. And so with those kind of ideas in mind, John and Christine kind of sat down with me and Christine and we talked about the study and kind of what's been going on. So they're going to give you a little bit of an update generally about Main Street, but also they have some direct feedback for the board, you know, after talking about it with the Main Street members regarding the role of the TURS and how it can best support downtown businesses. So with that, I'm happy to introduce John and Christine, who are two of our fabulous partners. John is the Denton Main Street Association president and Christine is the executive director. And I can speak personally and say Jessica wouldn't have made it this past year without the support of Main Street. So very happy that they're here to talk about everything that they've done and kind of weathering the COVID storm as well. Thank you for having us. Yes, thank you. The opportunity to come to y'all and talk about Main Street and what we do as an association. So I think Christina Davis has our presentation that she's going to put up for us. And so John and I are going to tag team this year, and we'll take questions at the end. But again, thank you for the opportunity. And there we go. Okay. All right. So we're ready for that first slide, Christina. On the next one, Christina. Sorry. Okay, great. So many of you know who the Denton Main Street Association is. We're often referred to as that group that does Twilight Toons and the car show. But there's a whole lot more to us in terms of how we work and work with the economic development department. So we're happy to be here today and talk about that. We are officially the Denton Central Business District, Incorporated, a 501(c)(6) nonprofit. In 1990, we started doing business as the Denton Main Street Association when we became an urban Texas Main Street city. But we actually had an association of businesses that formed in the mid-1960s headed up by the late Bill Thomas that formed together to go and represent downtown businesses, to be a partner with the city and work on making downtown a destination and continuing to keep it as a destination. So it's been around for a very long time, and we're very proud to keep that tradition going. This year, we are in our 31st years of Main Street City. We are part of the national and state program, and we are an accredited national Main Street program. So happy to report that. And today, we have a membership of 15 active board members with ex officios from economic development staff, Discover Denton and the Greater Denton Arts Council. Our organization has anywhere from 135 to 150 members at any given time, which is made up of businesses and community members. Anyone can be a member of our association. We are an association of businesses, but of course, community members can get involved and volunteer as well. We are partnering with the city of Denton on managing the Main Street program, and that is in order to promote and preserve downtown as a destination and keep locals and visitors coming here and participating in events and activities. So we are largely in charge of promoting downtown year round through our social media marketing events and promotions. We actually do 10 annual events and promotions throughout the year. Most of what you know is our larger ones are Twilight Tunes, the Arts and Autos, Extravaganza, Fossil Fest during Holiday Lighting, and we do several other smaller retail and restaurant based promotions and activities to attract people to downtown. These are all funded through donations and sponsorships through the 501(c)(6) and through our business memberships. The Denton Main Street Foundation of C3 was formed three years ago to fund and support the Denton Arts Walk of Fame and arts revitalization in downtown Denton. So DMSA helps coordinate two to three events per year to fundraise for the Denton Main Street Foundation. Next slide, please. The Main Street model is a four point approach that involves economic vitality, design, organization, and promotion. This approach is done through creating multiple partnerships and working collaboratively with local governments, nonprofits, and organizations to build a strong downtown district. We work to preserve and promote the historic downtown and create a vibrant cultural district with shopping, dining, museums, entertainment, arts, as well as places to live and work that are attractive to a diverse group of citizens and visitors. We also utilize economic development tools and incentives to promote business and growth in downtown and development. And we also work with various committees and organizations of volunteers to plan and organize these initiatives and activities annually. Next slide. Jessica talked about the pandemic last year and how it impacted downtown and you guys wanted to reach out to us. So as you can imagine, the COVID-19 impacted downtown businesses quite a bit. We had 14 businesses in the downtown area close brick and mortar stores permanently because of the pandemic and a few businesses reopened with new concepts online or a food truck model. Downtown Denton saw nine businesses open in 2020, so that's a positive. We had several businesses immediately pivot to online sales and delivery and Main Street hosted online sessions to inform downtown businesses on how to shift their business online as well as information sessions with calls with bankers and small business development professionals and of course our city officials for support and updates. Businesses changed hours of operations after reopening after the first and second shutdowns to adjust the customer demand including some seating adjustments to add outdoor options. And the Denton Main Street Association immediately responded at the beginning of the pandemic and shutdowns by creating a page on our website to support local which included listings that businesses could submit on their own with their altered hours and their operations and any COVID-19 updates and information. We also had grant and funding opportunity information for small businesses and links to access back to the City of Denton Economic Development website. It was actually one of our highest visited pages in 2020. And the Denton Main Street Association paid for a social media campaign that was about 11 to 12 months long to support local and build awareness for downtown businesses. And we believe that that was one of the larger reasons that much of our activity in downtown through the pandemic we saw a lot of local support and that was again due to our dedication to a campaign to bring awareness. Next slide. So that's a little bit about what Denton Main Street does for downtown just kind of information informational type of stuff for you guys. But to the reason why you invited us and once again we want to thank you for allowing us to address you guys. Denton Main Street and downtown business priorities specifically the economic vitality is critical to the Main Street program. The priorities for the Denton Main Street Board and downtown businesses are first we want to focus on lighting and walkability improvements. We believe that they're vital to the growth of downtown. In our meeting with Jessica and Christina we talked about how we believe that's very foundational to the growth to past growth and future growth. The second priority would be to complete the streets program that includes the new streets and as we all know those are the streets that are right behind the buildings that face the square. So it's not just the sidewalks and lighting but it's finishing the project. The other three new streets Cedarstone we want to work on the other three. And then the third priority we believe that there should be an update to the downtown reinvestment grant program that provides incentives for improving the façades of structures that are in desperate need of them. You know instead of a flat fund request we believe the fund should kind of be transitioned to a matching fund that way we can protect the fund we can protect the fund from a project where the total cost is maybe 35,000 and but 25,000 comes from the fund we believe it should be a matching where we can let make these funds really make an impact on facade improvements. We want to bullet point the fourth bullet point says the we recommend that TURS funds be used for the expansion of sidewalk lighting and facade improvements and increase the downtown reinvestment grant cap to 50,000. So we can if we use the matching model recommendation for you guys there can be a hundred thousand dollar grant excuse me a hundred thousand dollar project that can be met with 50,000 because there's a fifty thousand dollar matching from the investors. So we believe that we could probably get a lot of a lot of different things moving downtown. Examples of those projects would be that our need of assistance would be the Fine Arts Theater the City Hall West there's undeveloped and empty lots downtown and other properties that are in poor condition and they need restoration rehabilitation improvements and so I guess the next slide is the yes we also believe that the TURS fund should not be used for the PEC for the previous slide yes let's go back to that one I want to underline that if you don't mind Christina the bottom one we we've really firmly believe that the the downtown tourist funds should not be used for the for example the PEC for drainage and flood improvements we believe that the the TURS fund should be that are really useful to the development of downtown businesses and so people can come downtown you know that's a probably a cap best described as a capital project and so as it relates to the lighting and sidewalks perhaps the TURS funds can be used but that's how we really should downtown businesses and Main Street kind of see what the TURS funds should be used for and then now we can go to that second slide the next slide we kind of talked and so we want to investigate other funding mechanisms to create $1,500 micro grants with a minimum of like I said earlier a 50% match from the applicant business and have a much shorter approval timeline the grants would allow for smaller projects such as facade improvements and signs and new and existing businesses and these could be just a paint job grants that we can just you know for lack of a better word lipstick on a pig but there's a lot of the facades that's all they need is a paint job but you'd be surprised how much capital it takes to to do everything that needs to be done to a building to open up for businesses so micro grants and then develop a matching fund program for up to $5,000 to assist with physical expansion and collaborative partnerships to support small businesses and their development the applicants would be required to have a business plan and identify long-term goals for growth to be considered for example a business wishes to move into a larger larger space and expand their footprint business model a grant could include funds for fixtures a supplement for rent increase for up to six to 12 months which can be determined in a with a three to five year business plan presented with the application you know as people move into different buildings and they make improvements to buildings that they don't own perhaps they're the the tourist funds can be used to offset the rent increases and maybe payments to the actual building owner in lieu of increasing rent there are some programs that are out there that offer some kind of rent subsidies that would be to help a new business especially as they get going start out with some of that rent assistance because as you all know it takes a while to build up a business and some of these rents are pretty steep so there are other ways and programs that are out there that we we are learning about especially through our main street network that we believe that if we were to you know investigate some of these options that those could be possibilities if if we were to to look further into other options so the other thing i just want to add is yesterday i was in a webinar that with buxton that they presented on some recovery for for retail and and restaurant recovery and i think one thing one point that was made that i would just reemphasize and kind of reemphasizes the main street association stance on the new streets and improvements of lighting and sidewalks is sometimes it's the small things that we can do that really will attract the people to downtown and it's the things that make the difference and people downtown is what we really really need for these businesses to continue to succeed and to recover because it does take density and and some saturation of people and in the market in terms of consumers so that is something that i just want to leave you all with as a thought and i don't have anything else to add unless john does you know and i'll just piggyback on your final thought you know in business we can we can spend a lot of money if your business or you want to attract some people to your business or example for this downtown we can spend a lot of money to try to get people to come downtown and be real successful or i could spend a lot of money to get finally coming to my business because i'm in dire need of people big ad campaign is real successful but if i'm not ready for them if i don't provide a good meal or if the downtown is it doesn't meet their expectation of what it should be as relates to simple things like sidewalks and lighting we may never get an opportunity to get them back downtown again so it's important that we kind of be fundamental in our decision making we believe we believe for you guys to make those types of decisions i just want to say thank you again for the opportunity for us to present to you guys and we're happy to answer any questions we open it up for discussion q and a don't forget to unmute yourself does anybody have any questions we just gave you so much information you have no questions trying to go last year alex do you have any questions or comments i have plenty to say i do not yes jimmy okay can you hear me now yes sir just starting with the first what do you what do you what is your thought with the lighting and walkability what can you expound on that any at all yes there have been some corridors off the square that have had some improved lighting but there are still some pretty dark back streets and as we in sidewalks especially austin street and i think even you know walnut street and even pecan those walk those sidewalks are not as walkable and the lighting is not as bright so we hear a lot of comments from visitors to downtown and even our businesses who are closing up at night about those concerns and as relates to parking too jimmy when you think about it you know there's we all we all know that parking is difficult on the square and it takes and with the news of pedestrian walking lighting stoplights it takes a while to get it on the square so we need to start thinking about how downtown really expands from the square proper into exterior remote parking lots and so whether it be a you know southeast northeast southwest or southeast we need to make sure that walkability with lighting and sidewalks is is there as as we try to build from the we try to build a skyscraper as it relates to an awesome downtown and it's we kind of believe that's foundational well i think that segues into the second thing with the muse doesn't it uh finishing the the new streets yes yes those improvements would help greatly i'm very new on this board so i don't know where where that stopped or why it stopped uh for years is it does anybody have any info on that why that project just you got they yeah they did cedar and then didn't do anything else i don't i don't have an answer for you i don't think muse was not initially related to terz anyway so i don't oh originally no and i know uh you know doing muse streets is a multi-million dollar it's certainly hundreds of thousands of dollars to do one uh because there's so much goes into it but um but once again i think it's kind of foundational uh to uh to improve downtown if i may not much of an answer but uh it wasn't funded so you could say you know what something else was but uh yeah the short answer is it wasn't funded and wasn't any interest in raising taxes to increase revenues uh but you know uh this is another source of funding i will i'll just make a comment i start to feel like a broken record so i apologize but that just ultimately the terz is never going to at least the way it's currently set up being in a position to fund the kind of improvements for infrastructure that we need in downtown there has to be a fundamental shift in the city council's feeling that we've got to make a you know sustainable commitment to infrastructure whether that's just through the general fund or we look at other mechanisms such as a you know a a pid in itself um could also be a way in which you know we handle the drainage those properties affected just agreeing to a essentially a secondary tax or something like that i personally would get on board with it i'm not sure everybody would but to me that's just what has to happen there's just so many places i visit that have continued to commit annually not do one street and applaud themselves and then wait 10 years to do another it's just like a an ongoing commitment to improving the you know the urban fabric beyond the square so yeah and it was one of the slides that we talked about how you kind of need to reimagine um projects and you bring up you kind of need to reimagine funding for different types of different types of projects i mean you know i know you're connected with the fine arts theater and its project status uh but um you know if there's a it's right next door to cartwrights but at the same time you know if we can if there is some kind of funding mechanism for for that that type of project that really adds to downtown because right now it subtracts a lot from downtown because it's just such a big part of one of the sides and so um more so than something like city hall west or something like that but to reimagine downtown yeah i'm new i'm new to these types of boards too and i'm still learning but um yeah i'll say this that this is not a plug for the fine arts you know but when i visited downtown lewisville uh it's probably been three years ago i couldn't believe how much their downtown you know to me appeared to have gotten so much better some you know pocket parks and sidewalks and lighting and street trees everything looked really great and i complimented the city manager and i said did y'all do this you know it looks great down here did y'all have a tiff district or tours so we do but the only thing that that funds is our performing arts center we just made a commitment through our general funding to continue to improve the infrastructure in downtown so jimmy do you feel like your question is answered well obviously there's no funds for the muse project well i guess they they moved those funds to do the the east hickory all the way to the train station i don't actually know the accounting history of it as long as i've been here the three remaining new streets have just been in the unfunded status alex do you know alex and melissa you've probably been more involved that might be right i mean it's just hard to say because i've yeah it's gone so long but again i'm trying not to sound negative but it's a pretty common theme to spend a lot of time talking about things that that we spend so much time talking that the costs get get to a point where they they they get so much higher that we can't fund you know such as the the drainage project you know so just got jimmy and jessica if you don't mind if i remember properly from and please correct me if i'm wrong on this uh memory of the presentation last summer when they when uh they came to us with the tours possibility possible projects presentation our board saw presentation that stated the new streets could be done for seven million was that is that correct around seven million yes at the time the estimate that we had was somewhere around seven million but there was never a decision related to the the level at there's variations it was approximately seven million but until it's designed and developed and all of that we don't have the exact number there has to be kind of i would say the dynamics uh are that i don't think anybody's against it right it's like alex was saying something to talk about but then do you do it then uh you kind of start from uh tax rate you know and where like how do you want to impact people tax wise uh that creates a revenue projection then you go okay let's prioritize when at what point does the money run out so it's not like someone said there is money for this let's take it from that to put it somewhere else you could argue that probably the last kind of uh optional decision uh maybe was investing in the uh facility on 288 that'll be uh co-locating uh shelter services and and my senior king now i'd argue that's a downtown development project you know i think improving the environment downtown so you're not kind of having a forced march of unhoused people through the square twice a day you know uh it's probably good for all concerned including including the businesses so it's like all right got that done what's next i think i think uh i don't think there's anybody who's against doing the muses how much do we want to tax people and how much what's what's higher on the list uh but you know i i agree with all the sentiments expressed about it i do have some questions about it i don't know if i should if you're looking for other questions before i finally i do want to remind everyone before we go too further the point of and we are not posted to discuss these projects in depth it is specifically to talk about kind of main street and their recommendations and so let's try and keep the conversation focused on that before matt gets mad at me if i can you know ask a few questions about what has been presented uh first of all can we go back to jimmy since jimmy had the floor by all means with his q and a sure uh well that sounded like we were trying to cut that off that conversation off on the muse uh if you want to continue on that is there other funding like at the state level or grants from the state i know they're giving out some grants for some live music venues now that was i just heard that this morning on uh specter news this morning is that a possibility is is the grant writing uh do we have grant writing abilities if you're referring to the american rescue act uh the arca there are some funds available for those venues that were shuttered and the restaurant relief act follows under that the restaurant relief fund also falls under that so there i'm not sure and jessica could probably answer this better um there are opportunities for communities to get some funding as well through arca and there's it's still rolling out but i do know some of our venues uh that were shuttered have applied some of our restaurants have applied for funding um so those are individual grants that they have to apply for but as far as community uh cities getting funding there is some funding available but i'm not sure what den's qualification should be yeah the muse streets would not be eligible under that the federal funding that's coming through the american rescue plan act city council received a presentation yesterday with sort of staff's recommendations as it relates to the new street specifically and you know those are projects that could be funded through a variety of mechanisms the ters is not the only option um but it would be as the same as any street project it's either a you know a geo-funded or a ceo-funded uh project as part of the city's capital plan um or you know the ters could provide funding for them but they're i'm not aware of any grants we always look at um the economic development administration to see they have some public infrastructure grants we always see um look at those whether we would be eligible or not really depends on the limitations of that particular grant in time usually they're tied to um income levels based on census tracts um and sort of if the area has a depressed economic situation unfortunately that's a really hard case to make in downtown um when you kind of have a thriving downtown so we do have to look at those challenges that we have seeking those grants but we we always look um at every option we have we know how important that project is to downtown so we we are constantly looking okay that uh i just threw that out as an example from the state and i i think that's a new grant it's specifically designed for uh music venues or smaller venues for uh seating under 3 000 are you referring to that as something maybe for the fine arts theater jimmy is that that they could i just threw that out as an example of a grant that possibly there are grants other types of grants i'm i don't to i'm new at this so i don't really understand you know all of those mechanisms i used to be a grant writer but that was a hundred years ago it's hard work jimmy did you have any other questions for main street with regard to their presentation uh no thank you paul i think you had some questions uh yeah and actually uh i'm going to amend a comment i made um because one of my questions was uh was about the new streets uh you know i've spoken forcefully i thought in favor of doing that in part on the rationale that it would offer you know potentially double the storefront facings onto the new streets and i and i said that nobody is against it but i recall our current mayor council member at the time uh questioning that premise but whether that was really true at all that it would provide additional kind of storefront facings so i'd be very interested to hear your perspective on that what what would the new streets what would the benefit be if we do the new streets and would that be one of them or is that just not reality well i think it would depend on the building design um of course some of those that back up to the new streets have little staircases down to to walnut and so having that so it is a back door exit but it would certainly help beautify some of the back streets and help those sidewalks become more walkable if someone were to park back there or if it could be converted to use for an event or promotion uh you know block off the street which walnut street has done before um and make it a sort of a plaza for a day or something but also in terms of the the aesthetics and just the usability after covid what we did see in in a lot of downtowns across america is walk up to go windows and pick up windows those could be opportunities on the back side of a business for them to have a to go pick up window for you know just permanent business operation it doesn't have to be just a covid adjustment now we're finding that if we were to have opportunities for people to grab food to go they're still using that food to go opportunity um even beyond you know a year after covid or after the first hit of covid so i would say from a design standpoint there's a lot of opportunities for businesses to have a little bit of a backside operation that's interesting on the uh the model of back go oh yes yeah and and to your point uh you know the remaining three new streets are they're unique and each one uh kind of mccon and austin are a little similar walnut street is in its current state is is an alley um and to your point about it being a place where perhaps from storefronts uh you know i you know i don't even think about that when i think about the the the potential of new streets uh i'm kind of i'm really not cedar street's right behind cart rides and so i'm used to that having sidewalks and people people walk up and down cedar street constantly both sides walking up from the parking lot from from down to mckinney up to hickory uh or or behind the old debt coup building and walking down the street uh people walk down cedar street all day long and so i kind of see it as as that's a success cedar street is a success you know it runs along a you know the campus theater it also runs behind the fine arts theater and so i think it was a great great choice i wasn't even downtown at the time and that decision was made but i think that's the example that when when you do you beautify one of these streets people walk up and down it i mean who walks up and down the con street who walks uh maybe maybe austin street more often because it's kind of cabinet it goes to east side you know everyone wants to go to see john down there so i get it but uh but uh cedar street is the example for for new streets of what it can mean to downtown that's a helpful uh vision and i go to east side occasionally if i'm not going to bearded mug ah bae and i apologize sir also has do you have any other questions paul that's right i'll come back go ahead looks like ben has a question um not so much a question just uh to add a little bit of information is that all right is that all right yeah i want to confirm i'm not stepping out of a stepping out of our rules um the presentation go for it all right um it's last year in our recommendations for some grants to fund um one of the requesters was over on walnut right that they were opening up um uh jim uh yes what's that the movement lab yeah yes uh and yeah that was it um and i think about what what john is saying that he's seeing people using that street all the time simply because the sidewalks are beautiful it feels safe it's well lit uh and this this board just uh suggested that we should fund a business that's on a dark what john just referred to is pretty much an alley um so if we want people to move beyond the square um to not not go to somewhere on 380 or 288 because there's no parking on the square after only circling the square itself a couple of times we need to open up that that outer area if we add lighting if we add sidewalks that's going to expand people moving through a down walnut street just like he's saying that's going to encourage people to park just off the square uh that was my only addition it's not just utilizing the buildings on the new streets it's utilizing them to transfer between different areas yeah i think the building development is secondary that might come and probably will come but i think the primary thing is is uh if the old uh field of dreams if you build it they will come john what do you think that the building stuff will come second as a secondary after new streets well when you it's kind of limited uh when you think about it austin street there's there's some businesses already there um kind of visualizing there seems to be a lot or a space that could something can be built there we have um the old mini mall on austin street the back obviously the back side of it perhaps when when that is done when you know if we were to do redo austin street no telling what can be put in that space uh someone can reimagine or something can something happen and that's that's a that's probably the biggest i saw on the square is an empty lot uh but as scary as that lot is an awesome street doesn't seem to be a place where gosh i want to put a business here um but once again i you know i think back to cedar street melissa that people walk up and down the street you know there are no new businesses uh save for that one little hairdresser place right next to the fine arts theater that really faced cedar street uh you know the corner the lawyer office that faces oak street has been renovated uh but there's really nothing else going on on cedar street uh back there but uh but people walk up and down it uh all day long and it's and driving up and down it as they they move from oak to hickory and uh avoiding the square you know i'd love to have uh hickory and and uh excuse me elmond locus not even be considered to to move from north to south from south and north you know i i'd love to have uh alternate routes for cars to move not on the square um i just think that's that's perfect you know i just don't understand why we can't have a downtown uh the the ring outside this central square is is incomplete uh some of it's two ways some of it's one way um just kind of confusing for people like i said if we want to bring people downtown if we're going to spend a lot of money uh economically to to get people to visit us downtown you know i think we we need to come down we need to make sure downtown's ready you know to alex's point you know he went to louisville and he's like wow and so we need to make sure that we're wowing people and uh you know the lighting getting back to our number one the lighting and sidewalks sidewalks on austin street sidewalks parcon street somehow figure out walnut street like we need to do that we need we need to make people say wow not just on the square which is awesome but uh we need to take it to the next level uh we know the square is awesome and if you're on the square people know it is but there's a whole level the depth of of people that can come downtown we're only scratching the surface and so we need to start thinking outside the box and outside the square proper the new streets and then we go to the next block and then the next block and so um we're on the cusp we just need to make some decisions to get her done and to add to that on the walkability side of things when there is lighting and smoother sidewalks in it and the visual for a person psychologically to walk down a sidewalk and it not to change much they're more likely to park further away and use that sidewalk access to get to where they're going so we see that with cedar street with that parking lot once it got improved once the lighting's been improved on cedar there by howling mutton broson thorn you see a lot more people using that parking lot at night now and walking but before many women reported to us they were not feeling safe walking in through dark corridors to get to the square and so we need just to make sure that that uh that there's not a a blank space in the middle of a really nice parking lot to get to a really nice square you're walking through a really dark alley feeling um corridor so that's important again for the new streets because there is a lot of parking off the square but you have to walk through one of those streets to get to it and to your point alex as we as we try to do all these projects obviously the tourist fund is is is not there's not enough money to do all the things that need to be done downtown and so the and maybe these types of discussions or what kind of causes the groundswell to go up here to uh present the city council look we we're gonna need to do something we're gonna just we're gonna need to be innovative we're gonna look we need to think outside the box i know that's an old cliche but uh it seems like you're a little bit of frustration you talked about how you just kind of saying the same thing again uh and you're not a broken record those these are the types of decisions that uh the people who live play and work downtown are in debt as a whole uh demand almost uh we we need uh take it to the next level and i'm maybe speaking out of turn i'm just and i don't know yeah i don't know what what the purpose of we're so grateful to be to be in front of you guys but um uh this has been a great discussion you're preaching to the choir here and i'll yes i have to say anymore but you know it's uh again it's i think the turds has had a had an identity crisis since day one so i'm not sure what i'm not sure what your what direction we're supposed to give main street but you know just from a perspective of you know your role i think it only helps if you guys are you know continuing to to bring to light the issues that the downtown faces and i personally think that we have have stalled out in our in our progress for you know a little while now at least from the from the public side i'm i've been extremely frustrated to be honest with you know as i stare out at elm street that just i guess is getting redone that we could not have coordinated better sidewalk designs through that you know so just another just another jessica as we round that last part of the discussion out can you remind us what the um what council asked for with regard to sort of all the projects that would be considered under the turds consultants review and when that sort of review because it was if if i remember correctly it was sort of like a return on your investment sort of request from council to see where money might be spent that would be best yes and i apologize my laptop died that i had everything pulled up on and but we kind of walked away from the i think it was february city council meeting with direction from city council to keep looking at a few things there was a direction to fund um part of the pec four phases three and four project partially uh from the turds but we were looking into roi specific to redevelopment and that and we also got some direction on kind of what their priorities were and how they thought turds funds should be used so we were working to put together a kind of pro forma a menu of options um related to the various projects that we talked about as part of that study um one of the pieces of that was getting the updated value 2021 uh values from d cad so those have now been kind of or they're working through those we have the 2020 values there was a delay in getting those because of their change in software now we've got the 2021 value uh preliminary value so we're working through getting all of the data we need um we had a data challenge as d cad was shifting over to their new software that we hope is working now it's had some hiccups but it seems to be working now um but that's kind of our data point data points that we needed um and with that again we're kind of working through projections revenue growth um of the turds itself um and then kind of putting together based on council's kind of stated priorities which were kind of pack three and four partially um maybe some uh public private partnerships and some sidewalks and walkability i think were the three that were prioritized by city council i can't remember that could i i apologize but i did have it open and it died um and so we were going to kind of put together here are some projects we know of in the area that could be invested in with the turds fund but our goal to to alex's point was kind of to get off center right was to kind of say here are the priorities and we were gonna we're working through kind of what those menu of options are to bring back and make those recommendations and so we're not continuing to have those discussions our goal is to kind of do the pro forma and plan out the turds and so that moving forward um we we've got projects in the hopper and we're ready to move on them and now the turds is designed to cash fund projects um which is a bit of a challenge right because we don't have that much money in the bank we have revenue potential and so if council were to continue cash funding projects that delays something like the new streets if it was to be fully funded from the turds well the turds doesn't have enough cash in the bank right now so we'd have to issue debt um and then the turds would pay back over time so there's a couple financial challenges and things um not just projects but how we kind of pro forma those projects out and how they're funded so we're working through all of that uh that was a very long complicated answer but we're working through all of that it is and there's only one thing i'd like to maybe this is alex likes to state on that could we as a as a board discuss and make recommendations that we change our policy to allow for for the use of of obligation you know basically bond against our future revenues it's just every every big infrastructure project that gets done gets done generally that way why on earth would we think we should do it another way we don't have a policy against it alex it would be a possibility it's just the way that this turds was designed was kind of a cash funded project but there's nothing that would limit it from from borrowing against itself that's why partially we brought on the consultant right yes yes so we did look at debt impacts of projects as well paul you had some additional questions yeah we're not completely tired of the topic a couple of other areas to explore with our guests um i'm very interested in your very creative thoughts on micro grants and down time reinvestment grants my uh concern is you know those the temporary investment grants are super popular i'm i'm like them because i want to help encourage uh you know businesses to to start and to grow in that area by uh growing discomfort is uh over having been on this board for several years now uh is that i don't get the sense that we're leading to new decisions being made like it seems like you know whenever we give a grant it's like yeah they kind of would have done it anyway but you know it's a source of revenue like all for it and then if i argue this point the pushback is always well if it was marginal you know we wouldn't want to fund that because they'll probably go out so you know i'm kind of left wondering like what is the best way to deploy funds like that so it would really help something happen it wouldn't have happened otherwise and something uh productive that wouldn't have happened otherwise any thoughts on that well it's a great question uh and i think you know in my in our presentation we talked about qualifying businesses um that have a business plan that have matching funds and so there's some qualifications that a business that that there are investors there they have skin in the game um that allow projects to get done uh that allow them to perhaps move into a larger space or move into a space and then having to do a lot of improvements and you know maybe it's a underdeveloped property that's owned by somebody else and uh you know they they spend a lot of money to go into it but uh but the rent is becoming prohibitive so um so the business having a business plan with the application i think is important that uh that it's a it's a bona fide applicant that's that has a plan uh and that there's matching funds that uh that the terse grant would implement that requirement that we have up to 50 000 to get the 50 000 you're going to need to have an investment of 50 000 in this particular project that you're applying for also and so um i don't know if that answers the question of paul yeah how does that get into the part where like you know but for the how does this make you feel confident that we're creating new activity like if they have all that behind them and they've kind of done it anyway like what gives you confidence that this will create additional activity because for me that's the that's the reason they use taxpayer money you know well especially right now i think businesses uh because of covid their cash flow is very challenged and so if we are going to help businesses recover and if they want to expand or grow or maybe they have a new business model that would really be a great addition to our downtown mix of properties and businesses that is an investment in our downtown because many of these improvements these businesses are making stay with that business building through a new business owner if that unless they extremely change the the use of building but it is something that adds value and that would be the goal of the grant would be projects that add value that add some diversity that adds some but also maybe help some some more diverse audience of businesses as well who might not look to come downtown otherwise because they just simply don't have the money and to open a business to the process and opening a business is really the that's an important part obviously but it's it's uh it's not as important as staying open uh and the cash flow is is imperative so any dollars that could be saved in the pre-opening stage of a project you know if you're going to put a restaurant in or something like that you know it takes an army of people to once you're open to conduct business and so any kind of savings that could be had it could be helped out just as christine talked about where it's adding value to downtown by this new business that that money saved is going to allow them to stay open hopefully you know and and once again i go back to the qualifying business plan make sure you know this is something that the turds fund at the end of the day you're investing in this project and so i think the the turds should have it pretty you know they should be they should ask for a business plan and you know what are the qualifications of this guy this guy who wants to open up a restaurant downtown you know just what does this do is he just a cook on the outside was he an accountant in his former life and all of a sudden he wants to open a restaurant and those types of decisions actually found a couple of uh your your thoughts there really appealing uh in addition to the you know being qualified and so on but the idea of both supporting uh lasting additions that will you know kind of stay with it whether they make it or not but on the other end uh the idea of like subsidizing those early months before they were established is they have a chance to get a foothold i think that's kind of interesting too if uh lisa are you okay with me going into one more area go ahead yeah well he's okay you okay chair what is the question okay uh so it's a paragraph question uh you commented that what these downtown businesses really need is a critical mass density uh i'm sorry alex blinked off um so i think you'd be interested in this you know you need some density and why would you be against um sort of adding to the buildable downtown you know to create some live work play people that would be you know kind of built in audience for existing downtown businesses i was sort of surprised that there was like an absolute we're not interested in that and paul is talking specifically with the not wanting to fund the pec four yeah right because that's how you get to that okay well i i just you know that's that is a multi-million dollar project uh that's as i and and i'm i'm speaking a little bit of ignorance but um that is a state highway um and and i know the plans are to turn it over to the city and stuff like that but um that more so than amuse streets i think that is a project that uh is not what the tourist is designed to do um that's an opinion um and you know as important that is is so we can lift uh all that property south of downtown uh full disclosure i owns the property south of downtown and so um but and i want it done as fast as uh you do alex uh that's you know as as a funding mechanism that's not what tours should be about uh give especially given the fact that it was limited funding um we're waiting for profitability to come in and hopefully we can add significantly to the the tours amount um but uh i guess uh sharp point to your to your question is that's really not what i believe what that manager believes to be the the use of the tourist fund for that capital improvement project and the discussion around that um was that in order for us we we obviously want our downtown to grow beyond the square when we look at east hickory and we look at other projects and we see the success but we still have these eyesores so to speak of these back streets that no matter what you put down on south elm when you don't have the walkability and the lighting and all these things fixed in your core it's still a distraction to get them to the core get them from the core to the south and the north um we've heard this for years from our businesses beyond to the south and the north but at the same time we have this core that's still not quite ready i mean i think you need to do all that but yeah but if there's funding for something in the south elm area for that drainage that's where the board felt like that funding should come from a different source and not for the tours because the tours was designed and developed for downtown development improvement which again that is improvement but when it comes to business activity they feel that lighting and the walkability and the grants and so forth are very important thank you is that your final question paul all right thank you if there's no other questions we'll go on to item 1c no hands raised okay the next order of business is 1c receive staff activity report i would like to recognize christina davis hello um just real quick i'll go through this since we're already after one o'clock um the brownlow house is finally open and and holding weddings lamuse vintage has moved to its new location and is now open at 121 north elm in the former circus 77 location at 225 west oak we now have salvage secondhand shop um and some massage has also moved into a new location and the mug which is a coffee truck has now expanded and has a kiosk inside of chestnut tree um coming soon we do have uh totally joe's and i'm sorry i totally butchered his name books and uh indulgences and they're actually having their opening this weekend they're going to do a soft opening and then the gentleman of verona christine actually met with them about a week or so ago and they hope to be open in late june so we'll see how that goes for them i think it's going to be a little bit further out than that but we'll cross our fingers as far as our active uh status for our reinvestment grant at 104 west mckinney i still show that they have their next inspection is going to be june 25th and we hope to see that that gets them everything that in compliance and they're ready to move on to the next phase which was originally going to be some kind of asian type food and now it's going to be a burger joint so we'll see if they're still moving along with the current plan other than that the next bit of information we have is our next meeting for july 28th and on that i will say that after june 14th this board will be one that converts back to in-person meetings so your july 28th meeting will be in person so i do look forward to seeing everyone's smiling face in person we will have options we'll send out additional information you should have received an email from rosa rios our city secretary about um anyone who meets still uh desires to participate remotely um it'll be a a new situation that we'll we'll be doing but otherwise we'll be planning to meet in person on july 28th there any further discussion related to the staff activity report or meeting in person okay final order of business is item two which is concluding items is there any other business to discuss please raise your hand and i'll call on you then uh are we are we going to further discuss suggestions made by main street later like i was thinking like the recap or the the cap on the reinvestment grants or making the the full uh full suggestion to the city on how we'd like the the money to be used said in a later meeting you could make that ask of us if you wanted us to to bring something back um to look at that absolutely would you like to ask yeah yeah could should we ask that that be put on an agenda for us to uh approve or deny increasing the investment cap and making a recommendation from or do we need to hear any more about um making a recommendation off of the options the consultants gave us like making an official recommendation to the council yes so we will we can put something on the next agenda to talk about changes to the to the grant um in the amount i don't know where we'll be on the overall recommendations related to the kind of totality of the ters there's a lot of work that we're putting into this um hundreds of hours of my own time has already gone into it and we'll continue to go into it um and dan's too um if you see dan smiling um on screen as well so there's a ton of work um that's going into that um piece but i will keep you updated if we get to a place where we're ready to come back in july we certainly would we're not we're not delaying for any reason other than it's just a lot of work jessica is there a possibility of maybe having me as the chair meet with main street to maybe get a better idea of you know one off not through a meeting or before the next meeting to i mean i think i was with paul like i was surprised to hear their discord with the idea of ters funding um the peck four projects or any pet projects and it doesn't sound like they've been very well informed on on that so i was just wondering if there could be a meeting related to that that's not in this meeting i don't want to sit in this meeting to tell them things if that makes sense not an issue we we we meet with them regularly okay so all right any other so we've agreed that uh that would be added to the next agenda based on what ben was requesting and is there anything else that any concluding items regime there no other business the regular meeting is adjourned at 11 1 11 p.m today thank you